From MAILER-DAEMON Sat Feb 28 11:10:47 2009 Return-Path: <> X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.8 (2007-02-13) on industrial X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-83.8 required=2.4 tests=ADVANCE_FEE_1,ADVANCE_FEE_2, AWL,MAILTO_TO_SPAM_ADDR,SPF_HELO_PASS,USER_IN_WHITELIST autolearn=disabled version=3.1.8 X-Original-To: adamf@IBIBLIO.ORG Delivered-To: adamf@IBIBLIO.ORG Received: from listserv.albany.edu (unknown [169.226.1.24]) by metalab.unc.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1E2CE49094 for ; Sat, 28 Feb 2009 11:03:40 -0500 (EST) Received: from listserv.albany.edu (listserv.albany.edu [169.226.1.24]) by listserv.albany.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id n1SG3Y7C017265 for ; Sat, 28 Feb 2009 11:03:39 -0500 (EST) Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2009 11:03:35 -0500 From: "University at Albany LISTSERV Server (14.5)" Subject: File: "BEE-L LOG0803C" To: adamf@IBIBLIO.ORG Message-ID: Content-Length: 201466 Lines: 4582 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 16:18:09 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: =?UTF-8?Q?Peter_Borst?= Subject: Re: Video:Maryann Frazier on CCD March 8, Worcester County Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Group I think before we rush to conclusions (again) it should be borne in mind that Maryann Frazier was tasked to look for chemicals that might contribute to CCD. We know these chemicals are there but that does not mean they are the cause of CCD. Meanwhile, there are other researchers who are looking at other possible contributing factors (viruses, intra-colonial diversity, etc.). These other problems may be just as much to blame or even more so. This is an ongoing project. Further, if the beekeepers had not used these chemicals they might not have bees anymore to study! They have used these chemicals to keep their bees alive to this point. That being said, I fully agree that we need to move on from fluvalinate and coumaphos. pb **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 21:40:43 GMT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "deknow@netzero.net" Subject: Re: Video:Maryann Frazier on CCD March 8, Worcester County Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit brian, from my viewing, i'm not sure that it fluvalinate has gotten "more concentrated"...the claims here are that it is more toxic to honeybees due to the formulation. i couldn't tell from what was presented if it was also more toxic to mites or not...or if the dosage had been modified over time to take the toxicity into account. deknow -- Brian Fredericksen wrote: I was blown away by the revelation that Apistan had become significantly more concentrated. This must have affected many, many beekeepers over the last decade. **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 16:54:20 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "J. Waggle" Subject: Re: Bee lines and feral bees In-Reply-To: <47DA7F56.3020909@suscom-maine.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit --- Bill Truesdell wrote: > Lots of good info, but my problem is I have no bees > to start the process. Do your friends also have bees > or do > they have a "beeless" technique? Hello Bill, Sorry bout your beeless situation. Man, I know how you feel. I still get that sick in the gut feeling hearing of your bee loss as it reminds me so much of my past losses. Starting in 95 and maybe 5 times since then, I’ve lost all my colonies over wintering. Was a real blow to my confidence, had no idea what I was doing wrong, and bees still dying. However, since 2002, I have never had large losses, feral stock, smaller cell size, no treatments and recovering feral population I think the key here. Bill, you can do the smudge pot method without bees, the smudge pot, is to attract the bees quicker from a greater distance, then as they begin feeding from your bee hunting box where the reward is located, and then start the coursing process. The bees are a technique that I have added above what I have learned from the bee hunters, and is really not needed. Smudge pot method to attract scouts is common with the bee hunters. But one bee hunter I know uses a method I think perhaps most difficult. He carries syrup with Anise in cotton in a small jar, and simply blows across the opening, or wafts the odor out with his hand, I enjoy his description of the method ,,, “You take some anise,,, and you go like this,,, go like this,,, hold still,,, and soon a bee will come”. He tells of the past, only taking a single course from one bee to locate nests, but I imagine, in those years, feral nests would tend not to be very far. He helps me with my feral bee project by placing traps, and he was prodding me already, asking when I was bringing over the traps. I have some old bee articles about bee hunting tucked away in the files here, and more in line to be typed into a text file: http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/HistoricalHoneybeeArticles Best Wishes, Joe Waggle ~ Derry, PA ‘Bees Gone Wild Apiaries' FeralBeeProject.com ____________________________________________________________________________________ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 20:49:07 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Brian Fredericksen Subject: filtering beeswax Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Can anyone explain how I can filter beeswax through activated charcoal and or diatomaceous earth? It would appear to me I need to have the molten wax under some kind of pressure in order to accomplish this. I'm looking for some "simple" methods of filtering 4000 pounds of beeswax that's too dark - a home made system is what I have in mind. **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 23:44:46 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Rob Green Subject: Midwest Beekeeper (free download) In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-730D5AE4 The January/February issue of MidWest Beekeeper is available for free download at www.IndianaBeekeepingSchool.com -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.21.7/1328 - Release Date: 3/13/2008 11:31 AM **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2008 08:18:47 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Brian Carroll Subject: feral bees MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Interesting discussion about feral bees and catching swarms. Most of the swarm calls I received were for bees that were in a building. I tell the owner that I am going to break open their wall but that they need someone else to fix the hole. I assume most beekeepers do the same. How do other people on the list handle removing bees from buildings? Brian Carroll **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2008 10:39:34 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "=?windows-1252?Q?J._Waggle?=" Subject: Re: Bee lines and feral bees Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit (Some excess quotes and stuff removed) Hello Bee Quick, These techniques you claim to be recently developed are in fact part of history, and tested in actual field conditions, labs were few back then. Perhaps, you are selecting fairy tales to discredit in order to bolster to your position. We should not look at the fairy tales, lets focus on history. Lets have you put up some evidence. Tell us what old techniques were discredited, and by whom? I have bee hunting articles that show they are the same as used today in the files here: http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/HistoricalHoneybeeArticles If one were to conceal the dates, they would be nearly indistinguishable from the basic techniques used today. In reply to your ‘throw a rock and follow the trajectory to a colony remark’: The more I listen to what you often have written in the way of belittling the willpower and determination that these woodsmen possessed. I am of the belief you have absolutely no idea what they were capable of in the realm of toughness, and therefore are unable to accept the history. To provide proof of the falsity of your rock trajectory claim, I will show that these bee hunters were highly skilled, and courses were followed for miles in those days if need be. A single search reveals evidence of just such an account: Middletown Times-Press Tuesday, September 10, 1918 Middletown, New York =====Article Start===== FOLLOWED BEES FOR THREE MILES; DIDN'T GET HONEY Wurtsboro, Sept. 10 —David Addison Kaiffin, who usually finds more bee trees than any man In this section, was somewhat disappointed one day last week, after following a bee line for three miles from near King's swamp to find it led direct to one of Harvey Baxter's bee skeps. =====End===== Remember that ‘bee courses’ were of such value, they were sometimes used like currency, and were sold and bartered. Please explain why someone would bother paying for a bee course if they could simply throw a stone and follow it to a bee tree as you claim?? > For example, setting out a "dish" with feed, even > heavily scented > feed may be an exercise in frustration during any > bloom period. So you are attempting to discredit an old technique based on using it wrongly? Don’t forget about winter time also, this would cause great failure. it is > still more efficient > to seek out water sources than it is to attempt to > "attract" bees Yes!! Another ‘old technique’ used for many years. You claim this as a ‘new technology’ also?? If I may quote from the book “The Barefoot Beekeeper” by Phil Chandler “There is nothing new in beekeeping - only old ideas recycled in new cloths.” > The best triangulation tool one can have is a GPS… I have a GPS, you still need to use the compass function to determine direction, so nothing new here. A GPS is basically nothing more than a compass and rule. ….. and one can use the "project waypoint" > function for bees released from as few as 2 widely > different points to > locate the hive with surprising precision. Your new technology is 300 years too late! This you describe is the exact method developed in 1723 by Paul Dudley, (some give the credit to his father) which with great precision pinpoints the exact location of the nest by using “waypoints”. The method is illustrated in Eva Cranes ’World History of Beekeeping and Honey Hunting’ > Many times, I could not find the hive at the > intersection of the flight > vectors, but could detect the bees with a parabolic > mike and a pair of > headphones. That’s the problem with relying on technology, you are loosing your senses. I have articles in the files of bee hunters finding colonies a hundred feet up a cliff, and at the tops of massive popular trees. I doubt they had the parabolic thingy back then, but they found the bees. The procedure, when you cannot locate the hive at the intersection is to continue with another course, 'and use your senses'. ;) See Tough old bee hunter here: http://www.wisconsinhistory.org/whi/fullimage.asp?id=51988 Bee Hunters http://spec.lib.vt.edu/imagebase/palmer/full/ep206.jpeg Bee Hunter http://spec.lib.vt.edu/imagebase/palmer/full/ep205.jpeg Removing bees from walls http://www.wisconsinhistory.org/whi/fullimage.asp?id=33935 A bee man http://www.wisconsinhistory.org/whi/fullimage.asp?id=33972 Woman Catching Swarm http://www.wisconsinhistory.org/whi/fullimage.asp?id=33917 No GPS, or techno gadgets there ehh? Joe feralbeeproject.com **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2008 11:07:20 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bill Truesdell Subject: Re: Video:Maryann Frazier on CCD March 8, Worcester County In-Reply-To: <20080314.174043.1482.0@webmail13.dca.untd.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit deknow@netzero.net wrote: > the claims here are that it is more toxic to honeybees due to the formulation. The problem appears to be that they are using another stereoisomer which could have come about from either new starting material or a new process. Or it could be that the ratio of stereoisomers has changed. Stereoisomers have the exact chemical formula and atom sequence, but the atoms are linked differently at one or more points, such as pointing right or left. I still have not heard which isomer is at fault. Tau seems to be the original Apistan, but I am not sure. I cannot find how may stereoisiomer there are but there appear to be at least two and as many as four. There is a good 1990 paper on this: http://www.mindfully.org/Pesticide/Pyrethroids-Synthetic.htm It points out that setereoisomers can be many factors more lethal (6x for one noted) than its approved cousin. So we can have non-lethal concentrations of the original stereoisomer that are actually lethal if they are the other stereoisomer, which is what is supposed to be reported. The key statement in the paper (there are many), sounds like symptoms that are supposed to be unique to CCD: >Pyrethroids are toxic to insects whether the insects are beneficials or pests; they initially cause knock down (the inability of the insect to maintain its normal position) followed by recovery or death. Pyrethroids can also repel the insect or inhibit feeding behavior.37 It is a nurotoxin. So is Imidacloprid. It seems to have all the same toxic consequences of Imidacloprid. But it also has the feature of repelling bees and inhibits their feeding behavior (one of those Eureka moments). It also is more ubiquitous than Imidacloprid, since the beekeeper puts it in the hive. As far as it being the one cause of CCD, it is not. But there are two different CCD camps,IMHO, one east coast and the other central and west coast. I think that much of the east coast's problems are less CCD and more other factors. How else do you explain the almost continual east coast drum beat that it is pesticides that are the primary cause? The last time I looked, fluvalinate was a registered pesticide. At high enough concentrations it gives CCD symptoms. Truth is, I sincerely hope it is not fluvalinate. It would be devastating to find that we are our bees worst enemy. Bill Truesdell Bath, Maine **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2008 12:14:19 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Walter Zimmermann Subject: BEE-L] filtering beeswax MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Amesfarm: I sent you some input directly but for the rest of the crowd interesting website/ reading: _http://www.santafecandle.com/learn/beeswax/beeswax.htm_ (http://www.santafecandle.com/learn/beeswax/beeswax.htm) Walter Ontario **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2008 09:49:34 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Grant Gillard Subject: Re: feral bees In-Reply-To: <31acfa8c0803150518n1eede074l980033d1870bc487@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit How do I handle these calls? On a case-by-case basis, then like a soft-hearted, weak-willed, hyper-frugal, no-brained moron I tell them I'll do it. I could tell you a hundred different stories of 40-foot ladders and 2nd story buildings, or of tearing out sheet rock from the inside and honey comb dripping all over the carpet. Nothing is ever as easy as it looks and you get some very interested homeowner asking a million questions. (That's why it's a good idea to take my wife along. She loves to visit and distract the homeowner while I do the extraction. She rents out at $10 per hour and 49 cents a mile for those of you who are interested. Meals are optional.) My story is like yours: I'll cut it open and remove the bees, then the homeowner or their contractor fixes it from there. However, vinyl siding and brick are not conducive to removals, and more and more the success/survival rate back in the hive after the removal has not been worth my time and effort. It's cheaper to buy a package if you really want the bees. I've never charged for an extraction, not even for gas. Some people give me a donation to offset my expenses, but for the most part I get the bees and hive products as my compensation. I removed two colonies from a lawyer's shed and I gave him the address of my church to make a donation to the deacon's fund. He sent $100 and it made me feel good. Then there are the hives in a hollow tree with an entrance twenty feet off the ground and they don't want to cut down the tree. I often get the question, "Can't you just reach inside there and grab the queen and they'll all come out?" Yeah, and can you reach into the front pocket of my pants and pull out the Delware state quarter? And then there are a host of trees cut down for logging and the comb is all pancaked together once they fell the tree. Half of the honey has oozed out on the ground and then the rest of the tree has yet to be cut up to access the comb. Can I come out and remove the bees? Most of those bees are dead. The rest are flying around like lost children. And 99.99% of the world claims to be allergic to bee stings so I have to come out and get those bees right now. I'm backing way off this year. Then the response is, "Who else should I call?" or the threat, "Well, then I'm gonna kill them bees." In the past, I've been the only beekeeper adventurous enough (spelled f-o-o-l-h-a-r-d-y) to do this type of "rescue." I'm going to request they leave the bees alone as long as they're not bothering anybody. I have a great relationship with area exterminators who refuse to kill honeybees. Maybe no one will step up to the plate and remove them and we can just let them live. Last year I limited my swarm calls and removals to the three county area close to my home. I get calls from over a hundred miles asking me to come remove swarms. This year I'm going to take clusters hanging on branches. My success with bait hives and swarm traps fulfills my frugality for free bees. Someone else can take the extractions from buildings. Or maybe I'll start charging a decent wage for my time and gas. Grant Jackson, MO --------------------------------- Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2008 16:52:57 GMT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "deknow@netzero.net" Subject: Re: Video:Maryann Frazier on CCD March 8, Worcester County Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit there is a bright side if fluvalinate is found to be a major component...it means there is something within the scope of beekeeping to do to at least start to fix the problem(s). this is much easier than trying to get imidacloprid banned. deknow -- Bill Truesdell wrote: Truth is, I sincerely hope it is not fluvalinate. It would be devastating to find that we are our bees worst enemy. **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2008 14:24:32 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bill Truesdell Subject: Re: BEE-L] filtering beeswax In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit www.santafecandle.com/learn/beeswax/beeswax.htm The link is like most and deals with small quantities. It says "to process approximately 400 g of wax" not 4,000 pounds. Most on-line references say to lay it in the by making it into thin ribbons, or small pieces. Then wait three or more weeks. More like six months here in low winter sun Maine. Wonder how many square feet of wax there would be with 4,000 lbs spread out in a thin ribbon? I was gong to answer this since there are some good posts in the archives on how to do larger batches, but even they are for about 100 pounds. (Check Beeswax and Allan Dick's posts) I gave up since the request was for something easier than 40 batches. Most of what I read involves muriatic acid (Hydrochloric acid) or hydrogen peroxide. I would go the acid route. Cheaper and actually less dangerous since the H2O2 would have to be concentrate, not the stuff you buy at the corner chemists. Bill Truesdell, currently reading a lot of British Murder mysteries. (Yes, Watson, Sloane was conked on the dome with a gnome.) Bath, Maine **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2008 14:47:27 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Jerry Bromenshenk Subject: Re: Video:Maryann Frazier on CCD March 8, Worcester County MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Fluvalinate does not explain bee losses by organic beekeepers, and the number of these beekeepers reporting sudden bee losses has increased dramatically this fall/winter. Keep in mind, many of the beekeepers that we've sampled firmly believed the notion that mites are the root of all evil. When their colonies started to crash, they threw everything they had at mites. We saw strips and as many as four OTHER 'treatments' for mites, all together in hives at the same time. If CCD didn't take the bees out, the mite 'treatments' may have done more harm to the bees than good. But, for the most part, these were AFTER THE FACT treatments. CCD was already playing out. This scenario does explain how brood may have elevated levels of miticides, when it isn't detected at similar levels in wax and pollen. Even if the prescribed (label) dose was placed in a hive, with a crashing adult bee population, the dose per bee would quickly change, and the remaining nurse bees could easily have transferred it directly to the brood. Also, 5 brood samples with elevated fluvalinate can't be considered to be a representative sample of CCD colonies. Its not clear whether those 5 were from the same beekeepers, or 5 different beekeepers. If its one beekeeper, than it simply means that a beekeepers had undesirably high levels of fluvalinate in brood. If from 5 different beekeepers, that would be more compelling, but not convincing. We've found elevated paradichlorobenzene in lots of colonies - but this problem is specific to individual beekeepers, with a bias for some regions, especially the eastern states. The most likely scenario, areas with significant wax moth problems are more likely to display PDB residues in the wax. I've seen wax moths flying into the doors of beehives as soon as my truck stopped in MD. I seldom have a wax moth problem in Montana. So, its not surprising that bee colonies from the MD/PA/FL areas had elevated PDB, but bees from the northern states in the west did not. The cautionary note - PDB builds up and is retained in wax, so don't exceed label dosages, and periodic replacement of wax may be a good thing to do. However, I don't think we can blame CCD on PDB. Many of you know that we've warned beekeepers for the past 30 years that all kinds of harmful chemicals show up in beehives, including pollutants. So, its no surprise that chemicals that beekeepers deliberately put in hives end up in hive components and the bees themselves. Jerry **************It's Tax Time! Get tips, forms, and advice on AOL Money & Finance. (http://money.aol.com/tax?NCID=aolprf00030000000001) **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2008 12:11:05 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Paul Cherubini Subject: Re: Video:Maryann Frazier on CCD March 8, Worcester County MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Bill Truesdell wrote: > http://www.mindfully.org/Pesticide/Pyrethroids-Synthetic.htm > Pyrethroids can also repel the insect or inhibit feeding behavior. Very true and might potentially explain the lack of robbing observed in CCD deadouts. It is a simple matter to add a bit of pyrethroid insecticde to honey, then set out a dish of it in a open field or yard and watch how all the bees, flies, yellow jackets and ants are repelled. I've done it many times, though not specifically with fluvalinate. I still think the lack of robbing is the most interesting aspect of the CCD phenomenon and I find is puzzling why university researchers apparently have not yet identified the chemical that's stopping healthy bees and scavenger insects from robbing. Paul Cherubini El Dorado, Calif. **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2008 12:22:01 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "J. Waggle" Subject: Re: Bee lines and feral bees In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit -- Yoon Sik Kim wrote: > Now how do I go about capturing swarms? I’m about 30 to 40% successful with traps placed in remote from beekeeping areas. I am anticipating more success this season as I am finding more bee trees and noticing beelines zipping off to the woodlands than in previous years. When placing traps, I think of Lindauer’s observations of ‘house-hunting bees being former foragers‘. Occasionally, I will spot a house-hunting scout. They are easy to tell as they key in on large objects and hover about 12 inches away, facing the object. I’ve seen them scouting my house, spending the most time on the south and west ends of the house, hovering about a foot away, up and down where shutter edges and areas of changing features. I’ve followed them observed them searching the trunks of trees from bottom to very high up, and they do in fact, tend to spend more time looking at the sunny side of the object. So traps I place are on a large tree or large landmark or feature such as a shed or tree lined fence row etc. near the upwind side of an area having forage, entrance facing south or west, 6 feet or higher. I have > never been successful in > capturing swarms using traps, either, and wasted > quite a lot of money I am always searching for cheep trap ideas: 3 swarms in past 3 years caught off a second floor balcony in town. http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n237/FeralBeeProject/Trapping%20Feral%20Swarms/DCP_0563.jpg http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n237/FeralBeeProject/Trapping%20Feral%20Swarms/DCP_0567.jpg I’ve used end tables on balconies with and entrance hole and lure in them so as not to alarm the neighbors of anything resembling a bee hive. I love most using speaker enclosures for traps: http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n237/FeralBeeProject/Trapping%20Feral%20Swarms/DCP_1520.jpg http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n237/FeralBeeProject/Trapping%20Feral%20Swarms/SpeakerSwarmTrap.jpg I don’t know why but the woodland ferals go for them quite well. I only get one season or two out of them because the weather beats them up. An old time bee hunter friend of mine insists on me providing him with speaker traps in order to better felicitate the annoyance of the nosey neighbor lady who cannot figure out why he hangs speakers about his property. ;) Footlockers are fun to use, snap the lock closed and your off: http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n237/FeralBeeProject/Trapping%20Feral%20Swarms/FootlockerSwarmTrap.jpg With removable starter board: http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n237/FeralBeeProject/Trapping%20Feral%20Swarms/StarterStripBoard.jpg Here, I always store a trap near to where I extract honey. The scouts being former foragers are well aware of its location in advance, and I got 2 here last season, here’s one of them: http://s113.photobucket.com/albums/n237/FeralBeeProject/?action=view¤t=DCP_1956.jpg http://s113.photobucket.com/albums/n237/FeralBeeProject/?action=view¤t=DCP_1959.jpg Old gums once holding bees are great for attracting swarms, and heres one such swarm entering a gum I also keep near the house, with lure inside. http://s113.photobucket.com/albums/n237/FeralBeeProject/?action=view¤t=dac2.jpg As a routine spring procedure to replace my bee equipment with painted boxes, I will change out some hivebodies in my yard with new equipment, and use the old box; having tracking pheromone and all sorts of bee smells as a bait box for that season. I’ve had great success with traps placed on top of sheds with entrance extending out over the edge. Farm houses, or hunting camps seem to be places that attract scouts, being perhaps one of the most visible land marks to the scouts. I use lures, and I add lemongrass oil in melted beeswax with a dab or two from a brush to the interior south wall of each trap. I make it strong, perhaps ¼ cup of lemongrass to 2 cups of wax. The attractant is so strong, it gets scouts to visit the area. But strangely enough, if there is a box or void very nearby to these traps, it appears that the odor so strong in wafting, I’ve seen several times that the swarm chose the void proximate to the trap be-it a tree or box without lure. I’m wondering if anybody has noticed the occurrence of a lul in scout traffic at traps, the day or so prior to the a swarm accepting a trap? I am seeing this, and I’m curious that perhaps most of these scouts visiting in the days prior are from the mother colony, and nature would require them to be in the colony at the time of swarming, so they can exit with the swarm to provide this vital information to the swarm of the locations of these voids. If so, is this perhaps a foretelling knowledge by the bees of the exact day of swarm departure? > Currently I am thinking > about contacting one of the local TV Channels that > featured me about five > years ago to come and tape me while I remove one > walled-colony in the city. This is a great idea, a well timed feature right as swarm season starts, and in newspapers, reminding the public to call a beekeeper in the event they should see a swarm. With CCD, the press is eager to do bee stories. Best Wishes, Joe ____________________________________________________________________________________ Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2008 15:39:03 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Carl & Virginia Webb Subject: Re: Video:Maryann Frazier on CCD March 8, Worcester County MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Greetings, I finally got a chance to hear the video. Got rained out of the bee yard = where I was making up mating nucs. After listening there are several = thoughts and questions. 1. Early in the presentation Ms. Frasier says that the question of = certain races or types of bees being linked to CCD was investigated and = found not to be a factor. Then later during the presentation she = indicated that Africanized bees were immune. Questions---- ---Are we to believe that Russian bees survived for more than 100 years = exposed to nosema apis and other Asian bee diseases under primitive = beekeeping conditions and did not develop a degree of resistance to = these diseases as well as to varroa mites and yet they survived for more = than 100 years?=20 ---Why is it that Europe, having had varroa longer than we, has been = unable to select bees that are resistant to mites and disease and yet = we, here are collecting "survivor" bees from the wild? ---Why is it that the breeders of "survivor" bees in the US are = incorporating Russian bees into their stock and calling them their own? ---Makers of wax foundation, in the past have assured us that the = chemicals were removed before the foundation was made. Now we learn that = is not the case. Is it better for us to use plastic foundation rather = than solid wax because we get less contaminated wax? Plastic is all = around us e.g. water pipes, cars, groceries etc.. These are only questions. I will not be presumptuous and try to give = answers. I am a successful beekeeper but on a small scale and = permanently located in a particular location in north Georgia. I do keep = Russian bees.. Carl Webb **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2008 15:28:50 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: James Plaisted Subject: Re: feral bees In-Reply-To: <579563.87100.qm@web31604.mail.mud.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > Grant> Jackson, MO Said "Or maybe I'll start charging a decent wage for m= y time and gas." =20 I have to charge for my time and energy in removing hives from buildings. = If they don't wish to pay, then it is their problem:>. =20 Jim http://www.northernqueens.com/ _________________________________________________________________ Helping your favorite cause is as easy as instant messaging.=A0You IM, we g= ive. http://im.live.com/Messenger/IM/Home/?source=3Dtext_hotmail_join= **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2008 15:46:44 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: =?windows-1252?Q?Irwin_Harlton?= Subject: honey report march 10 2008 by Ron Phipps Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From:??Ron Phipps Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2008 2:52 PM HONEY MARKET REPORT March 10, 2008 By Ronald P. Phipps ? Introduction ? In his March 9, 2008 front page New York Times article, David Streitfeld writes: ? ??Everywhere, the cost of food is rising sharply.? Whether the world is in for a long period of continued increases has become one of the most urgent issues in economics.? Many factors are contributing to the rise, but the biggest is runaway demand. In recent years, the world?s developing countries have been growing about 7% a year, an unusually rapid rate by historical standards.? ? ?The high growth rate means hundreds of millions of people are, for the first time, getting access to the basics of life, including a better diet.? That jump in demand is helping to drive up the prices of agricultural commodities.? ? ?Rising food prices in the United States are already helping to fuel inflation reminiscent of the 1970s.? ? The international honey market has entered a stage which many may describe as ?crazy.?? Prices are soaring weekly as a result of an international shortage of honey and the absence of Chinese honey from both the U.S. market and possibly other major consuming countries. ? In the March issue of the American Beekeepers Journal, I stated that macro- economic factors were affecting prices for the majority of commodities, including honey.? Those factors are the plunge in the value of the U.S. dollar, and soaring prices for petroleum.? Since that time:? 1) the U.S. dollar has suffered a further collapse in value relative to the euro which has now appreciated since its inception by over 200%; ??2) an increase in the price of petroleum to a historic record, approaching $110/barrel and 3) the decision by the Federal Reserve, hoping to avoid a recession, to sharply and continuously reduce interest rates which, in turn, further weakens the U.S. dollar.? The U.S. economy is haunted by national deficits and the specter of simultaneous recessionary and inflationary pressures.? ? In addition, macro-global weather patterns have led to unpredictable and shifting patterns of agricultural production.? Within this context, honey prices have escalated well beyond the industry?s expectations. ? The U.S. ? The 2007 U.S. honey crop was only 148 million pounds; far below normal for the fifth consecutive year.? That was largely due to drought in the southwest where California suffered both its worst drought in a century and enormous wild fires that extensively destroyed tens of thousands of acres of wild sage plants and buckwheat.? The colony collapse disorder compounded problems for American beekeepers in 2007. ? While it is too early to tell, weather conditions in respect to rain and snow cover are harbingers of much better prospects for a return to a good 2008 American honey crop.? A good crop this summer is essential to stabilize honey prices. ? Very importantly, the carryover of U.S.A. honey has been depleted.? America? s largest honey producers, some of whom had held prior crops, are fully committed at prices which steadily rose month by month as the real situation in respect to both macro-economic conditions and specific supply/demand relations became clear to both American packers and producers. ? While weather conditions in California are better than a year ago, problems with mites and Colony Collapse Disorder have resulted in many beekeepers putting in the almond groves only 30% to 50% of the bee hives compared to a year ago. ? Canada ? In late January, Dr. Ron Fessenden and I spoke at the Annual Meeting of the Honey Council of Canada which was held in Alberta.? Earlier, I spoke to the Ontario Beekeepers Association about the International Honey Market and the work of the International Honey and Health Committee.? ? After the bumper 2006 Canadian honey crop, the 2007 crop was 70% of a normal crop.? Prices have been steadily rising in Canada.? Canadian beekeepers, it is worth noting, are obtaining significantly more income from pollination fees for canola, cranberry and blueberry crops; all of these crops are increasing as a response to world demand for grains, oil seeds and antioxidant rich foods.? Currently, the demand in the U.S.A. for Canadian honey has greatly increased due to the absence of Argentine honey.? ? Current prices for Canadian honey are in the range of $1.25-$1.30/lb. FOB beekeeper.? While there have been reports of? Chinese honey rejected in Canada, those reports, we believe, are exaggerated. ? One important development in the North American honey market is the recent purchase of Billy Bee Honey Products, Canada?s largest honey packer, by McCormick Company.? This purchase promises to have a large and long term impact upon the North American honey market.? Many take this purchase as a good omen for the entire industry since it manifests the fact that a company of the size, financial strength, marketing expertise, sophisticated scientific staff and strong presence in both the retail and industrial trades is interested to participate in the honey industry.? We believe interest in honey is growing in part because of the positive implications for the honey trade of modern scientific research and discoveries that Honey and Health Committee is encouraging and promulgating. ? Argentina and South America ? The 2007/2008 Argentine honey crop is now estimated at 60,000 metric tons plus or minus 10%.? Argentina had a very dry spring followed by a severely cold winter.? Beekeepers were busy restoring their bees as Argentina?s spring set in and were not concentrating on honey production.? The first extraction was late and a disaster, which was not ameliorated by a carryover, since the 2006/2007 crop was only about 70,000 metric tons, representing a reduction from the 2005/2006 bumper crop of about 110,000 metric tons.? The very poor first extraction not only reduced total production, but caused a sharp decline in white honey, including clover and alfalfa honeys. ? As a result of favorable rains, the second Argentine extraction was greatly improved over the first extraction but the honey produced was predominately extra light amber tinged with yellow undertones since much of this honey was from sunflowers. ? The short 2007 honey crops in Eastern Europe left European packers in urgent need to replenish their stocks as they anxiously waited for Argentina?s delayed crop.? The strength of the Euro which was reaching and then exceeding US$1.50 to1 Euro put European packers in a sharply advantageous position relative to U.S. importers and packers, who had to buy and sell in a weak U.S. Dollar.? If Argentina sold honey FOB ? Buenos Aires at USD3,050/MT, that meant a purchase price for European buyers of 2,000 Euro/MT. ? As a result, Argentina?s honey went to Europe with only 1% from old contracts being shipped to the U.S.A.? The duty paid, ex-dock prices of quality honey delivered to European ports from Argentine honey, whether industrial grade or bottling grade, reached about $1.75/lb.? Even though European packers are naturally unhappy with such levels, they are purchasing quality Argentine honey to meet their urgent needs. ? Argentine beekeepers with a short crop in hand that is currently fetching very high prices are offering honey in very small increments hoping for these further price increases.? Some Argentine exporters who earlier sold speculatively are in serious financial difficulty as they are paying beekeepers much higher prices than the selling prices of old contracts they have been struggling to fulfill or compelled to cancel.? Margins are either tight or negative for Argentine honey exporters. ? A recent report that Japan has banned Chinese honey, including the popular Chinese white acacia honey, has intensified the international scramble to find white honey, especially from South America. ? Uruguay has also suffered a reduction to 50% of a normal crop.? Chilean and Uruguayan honeys are obtaining C&F prices in the range of USD1.35/lb.- USD1.50/lb. ? Brazil is becoming a more important player in the world honey market.? Currently Brazil produces about 40,000MT, half of which is consumed locally and the other half exported.? Because of currency considerations, Europe is viewed as the natural market for conventional Brazilian honey.? America and Europe will compete on par for Brazilian organic honey.? Normally Brazil?s honey crop is more or less 50% light amber, 30% extra light amber and only 20% white honey.? In this respect, as well as flavor profiles, Brazilian honey is the polar opposite of Argentine honey ? Brazil has received official word that the European commission will re-open its market to imports of Brazilian conventional and organic honey.? The strong Euro plus the fact that in some European nations 20% of the food is organic has made Europe the preferred destination for Brazilian honey.? Conventional Brazilian Light Amber honey is being sold forward to Europe in very large quantities at around USD1.45/lb., organic Brazilian Light Amber has fetched around $1.50/lb. and organic White Brazilian honey is over USD1.60/lb.? Brazil anticipated and is obtaining price increases of 30%-40% with the re-opening of the European market.? The conditions are expected to persist and intensify at least until the summer of 2008 when European honey crops will commence.? It is an unprecedented situation.? Brazilian offers are becoming more difficult to obtain. ? China ? South, eastern and central China have suffered the heaviest snow and coldest weather of the past 6 decades.? Transportation, electricity and heat were absent in many places for over 15 consecutive days.? This severe cold spell, as noted, hit Afghanistan and the central highlands of Vietnam.? Although there was concern about the impact on Chinese bees, most Chinese beekeepers have a very small number of hives which they brought into enclosures, homes, farms, etc. There are no reports of unusual losses of bees in China as China?s spring crop begins in the southwest. ? But more significantly, inflation has grown sharply in China during recent months, including rising prices for food.? Our government still suffers a huge trade deficit with China and continues to put great pressure on China to strengthen the value of the Chinese currency.? China?s currency has already appreciated 10% relative to the US Dollar and further appreciations are forecast.? The cost of production of Chinese honey in U.S. dollar terms has undoubtedly sharply increased given the serious inflation. ? Most importantly, the closing of the bonding loophole through an Act of Congress, coupled with the increased antidumping rates on Chinese honey exporters, has virtually eliminated Chinese honey from legally entering the U.S.A. market.? ? Issues of quality control and safety of Chinese tires, pet food, medicines, toys, dental implants, seafood, etc., abound in the international press.? China?s failures in quality control reflect both corruption and the miniaturized scale of agricultural production in China that has given rise to a class of ?peddlers? and ?collectors? who collect the tiny lots that the small ?family farms? can produce. ? The collectors or peddlers do not have the capacity for quality control and often have the incentive to adulterate products.? Many people do not recognize how small the farms in China became after introduction of ?family farms? averaging 1 acre per family.? China?s former Premier Zhu Rong Ju, during a visit to the U.S.A., commented on the stark contrast between China? s miniaturized family farms and the North American scale of agricultural production. ? Recently, multi million dollar fines were levied in Australia against companies that brought in Chinese honey via Singapore for re-export to the U.S.A. as ?Australian honey.?? Countries used for transshipment are suspected to include Indonesia, Malaysia, Thailand, India and Australia.? The penalties in the U.S.A. for deliberate Customs fraud are not civil, but criminal. ? The current upward price tendencies coupled with the absence of Chinese honey from the U.S. market reveal the depressing effect that Chinese honey has had on the U.S. honey market during recent years. ? Vietnam ? Our colleague, Barbara Sheehan, has just returned from Vietnam where she addressed 80 leading members of the Vietnamese honey industry including some scientists.? The conference was held at a university and lasted about 8 hours during which both trends in the international honey market and the exciting initiative on honey and health were discussed in detail.? The Vietnamese are interested to participate in the honey and health initiative which promises to contribute to a positive transformation of the industry, provided there will be adequate supply and high quality honey available to meet the anticipated growth in demand that will result from creative marketing of this marvelous natural product which is acquiring a health message based upon modern science. ? Vietnamese honey exporters are reluctant to offer and are doing so month by month. ?Vietnam, like China and Afghanistan, was hit by severe cold in February which harmed the crop in the Central Highlands.? Vietnamese beekeepers are worried about weakened bees and a weakening U.S. Dollar.? Prices for Vietnamese light amber honey have been rising over the past 2 months and are currently in the high 90?s with potential for further escalation. ? Conclusion ? We all know how hard it is to increase prices for commodities.? But this month petroleum reached $109/barrel and gold $995.? Many packers also realize that when prices are firm:? 1) all segments of an industry benefit; 2) profits for packers increase and; 3) consumer perception of value increases.? The latter is an important and strategic fact that our industry needs to better understand. ? The macro-economic factors described above are converging to create a soaring international honey market and within the U.S.A. the dual phenomena of stagnation and inflation. The facts that we are in a global economy and our domestic honey production is significantly below consumption are contributing to a sharp and sustained increase in the price of honey.? Within this context the high quality of American and Canadian honey and their attractive prices make North American honey the best values in the market. ? The general thrust of the honey market for at least the next 3 or 4 months is concern about availability and adequacy of supply rather than price. But just as low prices discourage production, which leads to increases in prices, high prices stimulate production which tends to reduce prices.? Hopefully, a greater equilibrium between supply and demand will develop during the second half of 2008. ? Jeanne Bowe Accounting Manager CPNA International, Ltd. 100 Jericho Quadrangle, Suite 228 Jericho, New York 11753 ? Tel:? (516) 935-3880 Fax:? (516) 935-3959 e-mail:? info@cpnaglobal.com **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2008 18:27:39 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bill Truesdell Subject: Re: Video:Maryann Frazier on CCD March 8, Worcester County In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jerry Bromenshenk wrote: > Fluvalinate does not explain bee losses by organic beekeepers, and the > number of these beekeepers reporting sudden bee losses has increased dramatically > this fall/winter. I am on your side in this and agree. Which is why I said, IMO, there are two schools of CCD east coast and west coast. They are not distinct, as there are several on the east coast who have not bought into pesticides as the culprit. I do not think it is either. My personal opinion, and that is all it is, is we have a combo of mites and something else, and the something else is probably nosema but can also be KBV, IAPV (which may be a varaint of KBV), nutrition and a variety of other know problems, all of which can kill without mites. The problem with CCD is that there are some clear cases and there are some not so clear. For example - someone could have had high mite loads, treated off label but not knowing they had a different stereoisomer- the label only says fluvalinate-, killed the mites but then, with the different formulation, lost the bees. Any inspection after the bee loss would have shown a very low mite load but with CCD symptoms, especially no robbing and bees not feeding. Yet the real culprit was the off label treatment. I repeat again, how fortunate (and that is understating it) we are to have you posting, from time to time to help keep us on course. Your posts are greatly appreciated, and thank you. Bill Truesdell (please do not confuse me with facts when my mind is made up) Bath, Maine **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2008 18:52:35 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bill Truesdell Subject: Re: Bee lines and feral bees In-Reply-To: <56327.39709.qm@web56410.mail.re3.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit One major problem I have is the consistent reference to water supplies as a good bet to find bees and start from there. I am on a creek. Now that might not sound like much for all of you from away, but in Maine, creeks are not just creeks. Ours, Whiskeag Creek, is over 300 feet across at our house, and we are at the narrow end, and 10 feet deep at the center. We are eight miles from the ocean, but the creek is tidal as it connects to the Kennebec River, so at low tide it is mostly mudflats. Still great swimmin' in the summa' for about five to six hours around high tide. Sun heats up the top foot and you dive shallow. I do appreciate all your input on finding feral bees. A theme is emerging. Bill Truesdell Bath, Maine **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2008 15:53:21 GMT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "waldig@netzero.net" Subject: Re: feral bees Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit >>I assume most beekeepers do the same. How do other people on the list handle removing bees from buildings? I include repairing the hole in my fee with the qualifier that if new materials will be needed (it's hard to take old ceder shingles off without splitting, for example), the owners would have to pay for the materials. I ususally don't add time. Waldemar **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2008 20:42:32 GMT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "waldig@netzero.net" Subject: Re: Bee lines and feral bees Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit >>For example, setting out a "dish" with feed, even heavily scented feed may be an exercise in frustration during any bloom period. I have seen reports of this method working with pictures on the net and in the ABJ or Bee Culture. This time of year - Bill was asking about finding bees at this time of year: March - not a lot of plants are offering strong nectar flows so a dish with a scented somewhat thick syrup should be attractive to bees. This easy set-up should help determine if there are any bees in an area at all. I don't have a lot of bee lining experience so, for an impression, I took a frame with what appeared to be new nectar out of a hive yesterday and drove about a 1.5 miles in the direction where I think there are no beekeepers. We had a high of about 53F and occasional gusts of cold wind. Not great flying conditions but the bees were flying and coming back with good pollen. I set up the frame atop of my dark car so that convective heat off of the car body would keep the frame's scent going off. Within minutes a few bees came to the frame. I watched them fill up and take off in the general direction of my house. I assumed these were my bees but I did not have more time to try to follow them to where ever they were going. I thought that if I drove a 1/4 mile back towards the house and set up the frame again, the returning scouts and recruits might be able to find it en route to the original location. Will have to try it some time! I live in suburbia so chasing after the bees on foot would not be easy. Unlike the bees, I have to respect human property lines :) and would have to zig zag along public streets... Triangulation should be a good method of locating the general area where the hive is located. If there are more hives in the vicinity, one has to be extra careful not to get misguided. Tom Seeley's bee hunting in the Arnot forest was splendidly illustrated in one of the bee magazines. Waldemar **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2008 20:55:09 GMT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "waldig@netzero.net" Subject: Re: Bee lines and feral bees Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit >>...belittling the willpower and determination that these woodsmen possessed. ...what they were capable of in the realm of toughness... I grew up in suburban Poland which essentially put me in the 'city' category. I had a chance to spend more than one summer with my cousins in the country. I marveled at how much stronger they were and what endurance they had. A case can be made, for a childhood in the country where children from the start were fed basic (back then fairly pesticide-free), fresh food and spend most of their days outdoors in one sort of physical activity or another. Broken bones or ankle sprains were quite unheard of, too. They were not inflated body builders, they were just strong in body and convictions. The acuity of their senses could not be beat, either. When we'd go into the woods mushroom picking or just observing wildlife, they would be the first ones to spot camouflaged mushrooms or pinpoint the location of birds or their nests. It's hard to find people like this in developed countries these days. Even the farmers today seem to be 'just agricultural workers.' Waldemar **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2008 20:20:45 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "Peter L. Borst" Subject: How to Choose the Right Kind of Honey Bee MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-2 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit "How to Choose the Right Kind of Honey Bee" Daily Green - USA http://tinyurl.com/2c3hhs Kim Flottum writes: > By far the most common honey bee type, or Race, as they are called, are the Italians. Originally from, yes, Italy, they made their first appearance in the U.S. more than 100 years ago. Semi-tropical in nature, their life style follows that type of environmental formula and they do best where there are early, early springs, and late, or even no fall and winter breaks, typical of the southern half of that Peninsular country. Me: * Actually, they came from Northern Italy. > The Ligurian bee was named for its origin in the Ligurian Alps in the days of the Roman Empire. Roman historians praised its docility and productivity. The scientific name of this species is Apis mellifera ligustica. In the early 1880's Ligurian bees were imported by the South Australian Chamber of Manufacturers. The Ligurian bees on Kangaroo Island are believed to be the last remaining pure stock of this bee found anywhere in the world. http://www.users.on.net/~hogbay/hogbay2.htm Kim: > The other common honey bee race is the Carniolans, or Carnies. These honey bees originated in the mountainous parts of eastern Europe, and as a result take a whole different slant on how they interact with their environment. Me: * The Carniolan bee is named after the Kranjska region in Slovenia, also known as the Julian Alps. > Slovenia has 50,000 species of fauna. Some species are unique to the area: the Carniolan honey bee (Apis mellifera carnica); the Lipicanec (Lipizzaner), the white horse once bred by Habsburg royalty; the Proteus anguinus, a sightless amphibian found in karst cave waters; and a trout (Salmo marmorata) found in the Soèa River. * Actually, these two regions are only about 300 miles apart. The bees differ rather little, aside from their color. The Italians and Carniolans in the USA no doubt bear a slight resemblance to their ancestors. Kim: >The other two races of bees ... the Caucasians and the Russians are somewhat different yet, though not very common we'll cover those at a later time. And of course, there are the Africans .... and you don't want those at all. Me: * This sort of reflects the "brand name mind set", don't you think? Ford, Chevy, oh yeah, and those others. Personally, I am betting on the wild bee collectors, like Joe Waggle. Bet you never thought you'd hear that, huh Joe? I now think that the effort to breed particular types of bees may in fact be at the root of our problems. Nature appears to want the honey bee to have a wide range of mixed parentage. More anon ... pb **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2008 20:29:39 -0500 Reply-To: bee-quick@bee-quick.com Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bee Quick Subject: Re: Jennifer Berry on Small Cell - HAS 2007 - Video MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dee said: > increase in brood, and increased mites from equalization "Equalization" needs to be explained in terms that will mesh with what is known about mite biology and reproduction. Without a careful explanation, it appears to be ad-hoc speculation in reaction to Ms. Berry's specific comments. It was, in essence, an accusation that U. Georgia lacked the basic in-house beekeeping skills required to identify one or more robbing hives within the test group of hives, which would be complete nonsense. Further, while drifting and robbing certainly can re-introduce mites to otherwise "mite-free" hives (Wyatt Mangum did a lot of tedious mite counting to nail down this hard-won knowledge), the reintroductions will merely start the formerly mite-free hive at the start of the (near-exponential) curve of mite population growth, and the mite population will never catch up with untreated "control hives" that were claimed to be the source of the drifting mites. The mite populations are never going to be anything near "equal". When Ms. Berry gathered more data, and presented a summary of her final findings at SNEBA 2007, the previous ad-hoc speculation was clearly shown to be baseless, as the final results showed that a statistically significant HIGHER number of mites per 100 worker brood cells was found in the small cell hives as compared to the controls. Yet the "critique" continues and talk of "mite equalization" goes on. Why? How could even the ad-hoc speculative mechanism conjured up result in MORE mites in the small-cell colonies than in the controls? Will the results from Amanda Ellis' trial in Florida, with small cell hives and control hives in different apiaries be the cause for new excuses that results from different apiaries cannot be compared? All that goalpost moving must be tiring. > due to todays' artificial systems they are raised > upon (IA and closed population) Funny, I doubt that I've ever touched one of those $500-a-pop AI queens, or a daughter, granddaughter, great-granddaughter, or a great-great-granddaughter. Same thing for the products of a closed-breeding population. Unlike dairy farmers, beekeepers have to put up with a significant amount of potential "drift" between what the breeder bred, and what is shipped by the queen producer, even under optimal conditions. Now if I am to believe that a queen that open mates with whatever bees might be kept in the local area is somehow superior to a queen that open mates with drones from carefully selected stock, I'm going to need some sort of explanation of how the local bees are going to produce "more adaptable" progeny. Aren't nearly all honey bees adaptable enough to thrive from the equator to at least 60 degrees away from the equator already? > so you learn to let the unadaptable die, period, > that man has created, instead of what will work > in Nature. Again, I fail to see how mating with my neighboring beekeeper's hives and whatever swarms from his (and [gasp!] perhaps even MY hives) happen to be in the local area is going to add any value at all in terms of "adaptability". > So, so far with experiment being done by Berry, it > is like said above, seeing what has been seen in > past by many others I find it irritating that a paper that has yet to be published, with data that has yet to be reviewed by anyone outside of a very small circle, is being critiqued by people who have yet to read it and would not have been asked to participate in peer review. Those of us who HAVE seen the data and read drafts of the paper have had no quarrel with the methods or the findings. Can't the critiques stop at least until those who wish to critique at least take the time to read the paper? Dennis said: > They will spend hours on the computer criticizing what > others have done. But they have nothing to offer in its place. It is not "criticizing" to work at finding the actual truth behind the extraordinary claims being made about methods claimed to be key to colony survival. Such work is offering the only thing of any value at all to beekeepers - hard data, repeatable test conditions, and statistical certainty. Making the claim "it works for me" is not any sort of achievement at all, it is a puzzlement. If someone can't explain what you did and how it worked, then they are promoting a very dangerous thing - "faith-based beekeeping". Those who attempt to turn the "faith-based beekeeping" into "reality-based beekeeping" is not criticizing anything. The effort is an attempt to create something of value from the extraordinary claims, to extract some amount of knowledge from the confusion and contradictory statements. There are a lot of new beekeepers ordering starter kits this spring and hoping to start a new hobby or vocation. The game plan among all of us who teach and mentor new beekeepers is to warn these new beekeepers abou "faith-based beekeeping", and counsel them in reality-based beekeeping, so as to not end up with dead hives and discouraged novices. **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2008 21:47:14 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Darrell Subject: Re: feral bees In-Reply-To: <579563.87100.qm@web31604.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v753) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On 15-Mar-08, at 12:49 PM, Grant Gillard wrote: > How do I handle these calls? On a case-by-case basis, then like a > soft-hearted, weak-willed, hyper-frugal, no-brained moron I tell > them I'll do it. > This year I'm going to take clusters hanging on branches. My > success with bait hives and swarm traps fulfills my frugality for > free bees. Someone else can take the extractions from buildings. > > Or maybe I'll start charging a decent wage for my time and gas. Hi Grant and all I always respond when someone calls about bees. I don't charge a fee for the first visit to tell them that they are yellow jackets, bald faced hornets or bumbles. I collect swarms hanging in trees or clustered on building walls for no charge. For the bees in the wall situations you cite, I estimate the number of hours (including travel) and give them a quote based on $50 per hour. I also tell them that I will make temporary repairs after the bees and comb are out but they will have to arrange for the permanent repairs. If they were my bees that swarmed into the house I would assume total responsibility. Bob Darrell Caledon Ontario Canada 44N80W **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2008 22:52:49 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Ralph Harrison Subject: Re: Bee lines and feral bees MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Great pictures Joe! Thanks for sharing them. The foot locker is a unique idea I think I will try it. Ralph Harrison Milford, CT **************It's Tax Time! Get tips, forms, and advice on AOL Money & Finance. (http://money.aol.com/tax?NCID=aolprf00030000000001) **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 16 Mar 2008 07:55:25 -0500 Reply-To: bee-quick@bee-quick.com Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bee Quick Subject: Re: feral bees MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Both Bill Owens and Cindy Bee gave detailed presentations on the specific issue of "bee removals as a profitable business" at EAS 2007 in DE. They both do their removals in Georgia, and they both share my concern that the process not end with a large hole being left in anything. Cindy is clearly an experienced drywall artist, as some of her cut-away/remove bees/replace patches looked just as good as new construction, "ready to paint". Unlike most of us, these two get enough calls to have made bee removals a significant part of their revenue plan, so they clearly have valuable suggestions to offer. My view is that bee removals and renting splits out for home garden pollination are "service businesses", meaning that it is all about meeting the customer's needs. Many "customer needs" can seem to be pure perception or "fluff" to most beekeepers. Bill and Cindy both replace most all of what they remove to get at bees. **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 16 Mar 2008 09:47:59 -0500 Reply-To: bee-quick@bee-quick.com Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bee Quick Subject: Re: Bee lines and feral bees MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > ...belittling the willpower and determination that > these woodsmen possessed. Please re-read. No "woodsmen" were harmed in the production of this Bee-L thread. The simple fact is that many specific techniques represented as "sure-fire" in the historical literature can be refuted as "massively misinformed" when subjected to empirical testing in the modern era of far fewer "feral" swarms per acre. This says nothing at all about the woodsmen themselves, as those who did the writing are to blame for not getting the story right. The "naturalist" authors of the time almost exclusively relied on second-hand accounts, and the woodsmen of the time were not in the habit of publishing their own first-hand accounts. Primary historical sources are few and far between, but those of us who kept bees before the invasions of tracheal and varroa mites can testify to the massive differences between "then" and "now". We are the primary sources you seek. > Lets have you put up some evidence. Tell us what old > techniques were discredited, and by whom? I'll give you one classic knee-slapper, and you can e-mail me off list if you want more examples. One of the most puzzling types of bee-lining boxes one can find has a small glass window in the top of the box and a cramped chamber, barely high enough for a bee to stand. (As I recall Aaron Morris has one of this type of box in his collection.) The "reasoning" behind the box was that a bee would, without taking flight, face the direction of its hive. This is, of course, utter nonsense. A bee will take flight and do several circles before taking off in a specific direction, providing very clear proof of the sequence of events for a bee "getting its bearings". > I am of the belief you have absolutely no idea what they > were capable of in the realm of toughness, and therefore > are unable to accept the history. "Toughness" has no relevance at all in consideration of the accuracy of the tales told by others about those you call "tough". I wish there were more first-hand accounts. I can only offer my own first-hand accounts, and echo the accounts of those who I have taught to line bees. **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 16 Mar 2008 10:13:42 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Chris Slade Subject: Re: Honey Left on over winter MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 11/03/2008 16:20:15 GMT Standard Time, scientist@ENGINEER.COM writes: This honey was then left on over the winter (here in Michigan) and I wanted to know if it was salvageable. Yes, I've done it. If unwired, cut out the comb, mash it in a bucket, warm it gently to just over blood heat, pour through strainer, bottle. The remaining wax will contain plenty of honey still. Either put it in mesh and squeeze it with a fruit press or wash it with rain water and make mead or honey beer. Recover the wax. If wired comb and you don't mind the extra work, boredom, and possible repetitive strain injury (I try to do my honey handling when I can listen to a test match on the wireless but I don't think you can get cricket in the US) scrape each comb don't to the midrib and treat as above. Compare the flavour of honey that has been through an extractor and that which hasn't. There's an amazing difference. Chris **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 16 Mar 2008 10:20:41 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Chris Slade Subject: Re: Bee lines and feral bees+finding bees MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 12/03/2008 12:27:30 GMT Standard Time, johnhort@BELLSOUTH.NET writes: When scouts set up a bee line and bring recruits, > > start gradually moving the jars in the direction of the departing bees. When you know the line, mark it on a map, then move the food (and some bees) at right angles to the bee-line for a few hundred yards and start again. You can then triangulate the position of the colony. Chris **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 16 Mar 2008 11:27:31 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Jerry Bromenshenk Subject: Re: Video:Maryann Frazier on CCD March 8, Worcester County MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit As per CCD and race of bees. Our surveys indicated a slight tendency towards susceptibility to CCD by Italian bees, a hint that Russian bees were a bit resistant. NONE of this was even close to statistically significant. Also, since Italians are one of the most commonly used races of bee, and Russians one of the newer races in the U.S., with more limited distribution - this is probably just an artifact of the overall numbers of beekeepers with Italian versus Russian bees. As per the Africanized bee resistance - I've seen no studies that document this - haven't even seen any published studies or even rumored stuidies of CCD in African bees. I've heard these claims, but can't find any evidence for this. If a study was done, I'd much like to see it. Should be a simple question - if a study was done, who did it and when? Far as I know, the Africanized bee research yard in Tucson was eliminated after Gerry Loper retired - so where would one have found managed AHB with CCD - who's watching feral AHBs for CCD? Since we don't know what causes it, you can't sample an AHB feral colony and proclaim it has/has not CCD. Is there information about CCD in AHB from S. America? I've reports of a CCD like problem in Chile. When I was in Chile a couple of years ago, they claimed not to have AHB. Guatamala has AHB - I've experienced that when I was there, but their bee losses were a long, slow dwindle, at least what I saw a few years ago. Any information about CCD from Argentina? That would be interesting. The lack of reporting of CCD in a few hot/dry SW states for 2006-07 may have been the source of the comment that implies AHB are resistant based on absence of reports of CCD in regions with AHB - that argument went out the window fall of 2007. According to our surveys and sampling, CCD was seen in managed bees in this region last fall/winter. Jerry **************It's Tax Time! Get tips, forms, and advice on AOL Money & Finance. (http://money.aol.com/tax?NCID=aolprf00030000000001) **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 16 Mar 2008 08:15:14 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: randy oliver Subject: Re: feral bees MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Grant's reply stating how easy it is to underestimate the cost of removing bees in walls was dead on. When folk call me with bees in a wall or tree, first I ask them if the "bees" are yellow and black. If so, I perform nonchemical yellowjacket removal for a fee. If we establish that they are indeed honeybees, I tell them that they have four options: 1. Hire an exterminator (and I tell them the local cost--over $200). The downside is that they can wind up with more than 10 lbs of rotting bees, and large amounts of fermenting, dripping, or ant-infested honey, and that no beekeeper will want to touch a sprayed colony afterward. 2. Trap them out. This takes about two months, is prone toward failure and setbacks, and costs a lot, due to labor. Plus it requires an additional hive in place at the entrance. 3. Hire me. I'm a licensed contractor. I do the removal, and perform as many repairs as the owner wishes. I charge accordingly. Rarely less than $100, and if repairs include going back to matching original paint, up to several hundred. 4. Do nothing, and let varroa kill the colony. Then let other bees rob out the honey. When the owner sees a flurry of activity, and brown stains at the entrance, that means that the colony has been robbed out, and all honey is gone. Then seal the opening. In the meantime, enjoy having a feral colony. The bees do little damage in the wall. I leave the decision entirely up to the owner. Randy Oliver **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 16 Mar 2008 09:51:32 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: JDP Subject: Re: Jennifer Berry on Small Cell - HAS 2007 - Video MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Reading the back-forth arguments about small cell in which neither side has changed its tune no matter how often the game is played becomes wearisome. Empirical observation is a sound basis for advancing the understanding of a concept. If repeatable results can be obtained without obvious scientific explanation then further study is required to investigate theories until such times as a rational explanation can be proven. Not everything can be explained 'scientifically' until the level of science expands to incorporate an explanation that is rational and repeatable in experimentation and in practice. The fray of warring epithets begins and ends every day as follows: The response to the SCA (Small Cell Adherents) opening banners of "No Treatments" from the SCO (Small Cell Opponents) is a forest of banners declaring "Prove It". After a flurry of other banners making minor points the fray concludes with SCA's final counter of with "Try it, you'll like it" which is met with "We don't have to, we know SC does not work". The fray has continued to this day with neither side budging in its convictions. SCA missionaries are preaching of a new way and the SCO is throwing up obstacles. Whether Small Cell works or not, an industry has sprung up to capitalize/commercialize on the belief that SCA practitioners have a way to improve the health and longevity of bee colonies. Proof be damned, there is money to be made. Nobody expects peace, but everyone would appreciate a truce in which both sides desisted from laying fingers to keyboards and assailing the ether space with more emails full of oft-repeated phrases and diatribe. "We have heard it all before, it's the same thing over and over again" wailed one Bee-L subscriber, "how many times do I have to hit the Delete key in my lifetime?" **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 16 Mar 2008 13:21:25 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Chris Slade Subject: Re: Sperm MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Why do bee sperms have such excessively long tails? Chris **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 16 Mar 2008 11:11:20 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: bman140 Subject: Re: feral bees In-Reply-To: <3dcef4a10803160815u33d41f4cp39c80293db36cef9@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I, like a lot of us, get a lot of calls to remove bees from most any kind of location bees can get into. When I first started, I didn't charge anything to do it. I learned real quick just how much the general public does not know about bees or even what they look like. A lot of people think that if it flies it has to be a honeybee. It never fails that ' they just got there a day or two ago. I know because I just saw them'. After the first year of it, I started charging $50 for my time & expenses to go look & advise what could be done. If it turns out to be honeybees and if I do the job then that $50 comes off the total price. Most of my calls are 20+ miles one way. If it's on my way home from work and they can wait I stop by and there's no charge to look. Every situation is different. I charge nothing for swarms. I have had calls from catching bees feeding at a hummigbird feeder to wanting to sell me bees in a tree for $150. I''m sure we've all heard some good ones and they always think we're miracle workers and bee charmers and it cost us nothing. Welcome to dealing with the general public. Ed --------------------------------- Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage. **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 16 Mar 2008 14:22:25 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Juanse Barros Subject: AHB in Chile Comments: cc: Pamela Rodriguez MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Jerry Bromenshenk said: "I've reports of a CCD like problem in Chile. When I was in Chile a couple of years ago, they claimed not to have AHB. We do not have AHB in Chile. We are starting a formal research proyect this year to prove this as part of our efforts to export bee biology. http://www.queenbee.cl/not_09.htm About CCD, if the causes are not clear the symptoms say nothing!!! -- Juanse Barros J. APIZUR S.A. Carrera 695 Gorbea - CHILE +56-45-271693 08-3613310 http://apiaraucania.blogspot.com/ juanseapi@gmail.com **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 16 Mar 2008 14:31:27 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Juanse Barros Subject: Re: AHB in Chile / NOT Comments: cc: Pamela Rodriguez MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Keith Delaplane (http://www.queenbee.cl/africanizedhoneybees.pdf) The bees spread northward at a rate of about 200 to 300 miles per year, and today every country in Latin America except Chile has established populations of Africanized honey bees. -- Juanse Barros J. APIZUR S.A. Carrera 695 Gorbea - CHILE +56-45-271693 08-3613310 http://apiaraucania.blogspot.com/ juanseapi@gmail.com **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 16 Mar 2008 15:43:49 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bill Truesdell Subject: Re: Jennifer Berry on Small Cell - HAS 2007 - Video -now aggguhhhh In-Reply-To: <246604.86895.qm@web56204.mail.re3.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit JDP wrote: > "We have heard it all before, it's the same thing over > and over again" wailed one Bee-L subscriber, "how many > times do I have to hit the Delete key in my lifetime?" If you have been around the BeeL for a long time, as I have, there is much repetition. I actually enjoy it, because often there is something new. Why? Because the BeeL is not static. Most of the real old timers who were moderators still lurk but most no longer post. But new people show up every day and they bring their knowledge and ignorance into the forum. Plus, if we limited the discussion to only things that have never been talked about before, there only would be five threads per year and that is optimistic. Bill Truesdell, BeeL- definition: permanent deja vu Bath, Maine **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 16 Mar 2008 15:47:23 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bill Truesdell Subject: Re: Bee lines and feral bees In-Reply-To: <411239.26696.qm@web56414.mail.re3.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit It struck me that most bees, during the time I will be looking for them, are more in search of pollen than nectar, since that is more plentiful until maples bloom. So, would a pollen station work and if so, what bait should I use, including honey/scented syrup? Bill Truesdell Bath, Maine **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 16 Mar 2008 17:11:47 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: =?windows-1252?Q?Howard_Kogan?= Subject: Bee Hunting Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit A favorite trapping book, S. Stanley Hawbaker's Trapping North American Furbearers has a chapter on Bee Hunting. The same book published first in 1941 also recommended bee-keeping as a suitable summer occupation for the professional trapper who trapped all winter. "Some capital is needed to get into the bee business, but once in it and you know all the ropes some real easy (in fact the easiest) money can be made". Ah for the good old days! Howard Kogan **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 16 Mar 2008 17:58:12 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Carl & Virginia Webb Subject: Re: Video:Maryann Frazier on CCD March 8, Worcester County MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thanks Jerry, who wrote >--- a hint that Russian bees were a bit=20 resistant. NONE of this was even close to statistically significant. Now that we have anecdotal evidence, I am sure that research can = confirm. Carl Webb **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 16 Mar 2008 18:09:43 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Chris Slade Subject: Re: Plastic chemicals MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 10/03/2008 14:44:06 GMT Standard Time, mtnhoney@ALLTEL.NET writes: Bees clearly prefer the wired wax but plastic is easier for me and makes a beautiful frame when fully drawn out. I wonder whether the bees think it as beautiful as you do. Left to themselves they tend not to get too hung up on uniformity. Chris **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 16 Mar 2008 14:29:55 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: randy oliver Subject: Re: Bee lines and feral bees In-Reply-To: <47DD794B.5060601@suscom-maine.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline >So, would a pollen station work and if so, what bait > should I use, including honey/scented syrup? Hi Bill, I filmed a short clip two years ago of the preference of the bees for one kind of commercial pollen placed in open cups near a beeyard (both were Chinese from major importers). One type of pollen I had at that time been mixing in the open into patties (I no longer use pollen in the mix). Thus, bees had been finding the spills and carrying it back for a week. So they were well imprinted onto the odor of that specific pollen. However, when I opened a bag of the other brand, and set identical cups out (side by side) containing the two types of pollen, the bees immediately preferred the new one by about fifty to one! The bees literally mobbed the new brand, filling the cup solid with their bodies, and virtually ignored the brand that they had previously been feeding upon. So in answer to your question, yes, pollen could be used as an attractant, if it has the right smell. Randy Oliver **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 16 Mar 2008 19:46:05 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Brian Fredericksen Subject: Re: Jennifer Berry on Small Cell - HAS 2007 - Video Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit On Sun, 16 Mar 2008 09:51:32 -0700, JDP wrote: >Whether Small Cell works or not, an industry has >sprung up to capitalize/commercialize on the belief >that SCA practitioners have a way to improve the >health and longevity of bee colonies. Proof be damned, >there is money to be made. > Ah commercialization always gives a practice some real authenticity. Kinda like the CCD cures available now online! http://www.honeyrunapiaries.com/blog/more-cures-for-ccd/98 **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 16 Mar 2008 22:20:44 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Juanse Barros Subject: Re: honey report march 10 2008 by Ron Phipps In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline HONEY MARKET REPORT Any one have data on chinese production or honey trade after 2002 that can share? http://www.itmonline.org/arts/bees.htm -- Juanse Barros J. APIZUR S.A. Carrera 695 Gorbea - CHILE +56-45-271693 08-3613310 http://apiaraucania.blogspot.com/ juanseapi@gmail.com **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2008 01:53:06 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Juanse Barros Subject: More Honey Market World Statistics Comments: To: honey_australia@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline http://world-trade-organization.suite101.com/article.cfm/top_honey_exporting_countries -- Juanse Barros J. APIZUR S.A. Carrera 695 Gorbea - CHILE +56-45-271693 08-3613310 http://apiaraucania.blogspot.com/ juanseapi@gmail.com **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2008 09:01:56 +0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Gavin Ramsay Subject: Re: Bee lines and feral bees MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi Randy and All > the bees immediately preferred the new one by about fifty to one! Perhaps the bees have a need for diversity in their pollen diets and simply tired of the old one? Could make sense, as each pollen type has its own balance of nutrients and one type may not supply everything. Nectar is different, as sugar is sugar. How widespread is the feeding of Chinese pollen? It it wise? Pollen loads are created by cementing the loose pollen a bee scrapes off during a foraging trip with nectar from the crop. Foragers engage in a bit of mouth-to-mouth in the hive, so presumably low numbers of things like Nosema spores will then be dried into these pollen loads. Is this a possible route for the rapid dissemination of spore-dispersed pathogens worldwide? all the best Gavin **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2008 04:13:36 +0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: heather gamper Subject: bee swarms returning to the hive MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I am a new beekeeper and my bees swarmed into a near by oak tree this morni= ng, they were in the tree for about 45 minutes and then they came back to the hive. I couldnt find the old queen in the hi= ve, but I could have missed her. Did she die in flight and the workers had to come back? Is this common? _________________________________________________________________ Connect and share in new ways with Windows Live. http://www.windowslive.com/share.html?ocid=3DTXT_TAGHM_Wave2_sharelife_0120= 08= **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2008 10:28:25 GMT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "waldig@netzero.net" Subject: A bee trailer accident in California. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080317/ap_on_fe_st/odd_bee_crash **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2008 12:55:08 +0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dave Cushman Subject: Re: Sperm In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Chris > Why do bee sperms have such excessively long tails? More likely the head is small in relation to the tail to enable three or four years worth of semen to be kept in a small volume of about one microlitre. -- Regards & Best 73s, Dave Cushman, G8MZY http://www.dave-cushman.net (http://website.lineone.net/~dave.cushman) Short FallBack M/c, Build 7.01/2.01 **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2008 08:33:05 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: National meeting CD & DVD MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello All, I am now getting to hear the audio CD's of the National Beekeeping conferen= ce. These CD's are clear and the noise has been filtered out. You can order= at: www.conferencerecording.com I recommend NBC98-303 CD. $20 plus $4 shipping for two CD's but you can ge= t the entire conference for $150 plus shipping. Less than a one way ticket = to California or a conference registration. I attend when I can but was in = Florida working on a couple ABJ articles at the time. When you listen you will see that what I have been saying on BEE-L is the s= ame as those beekeepers are saying. The above set is the most popular set b= eing purchased.=20 A few highlights: CCD is the third newest popular word added to English language last year There will be a whooping 20% more corn planted in 2008 ( most with pesticid= e treated seed) The EPA does no testing of new insecticides. Simply rubber stamps chemical = company data. Chemical company boasts 7 different insects killed by systemic corn pestici= des. Some researchers claim the yellow butterflies (used to be found always= in corn fields but now mysteriously absent) are killed by simply sitting o= n corn plants. PPB of two systemic found in pollen but our researchers can not say if a pr= oblem as chemical company data only deals with LD50 of bees.=20 Farmers are "stacking chemicals" to save labor of spraying. Research points= to some concoctions as much as 10 times more lethal to bees than each is p= er label. Some bee kills in apples have been found caused by systemic sprayed on bloo= m while bees are in the field. Label says will not harm bees. Bee kills In central valley in California linked to pesticides added to dit= ch water pumped into fields and the bees getting the water.=20 ( also some of us suspect some bee problems in California are spread by be= es getting water from the same source. We wonder if pathogens can be spread= through the open water source which the entire area might be using) California watermelon pollinators claim bees are crashing in watermelons si= nce the growers have went to pesticide treated seed. Used to be the best be= es came out of watermelons. Not now. Some of the new fungicides being used in almonds are causing brood damage. The above are a few highlights from the first CD. I have pushed for years to be able to purchase a quality recording of natio= nal meetings. Now we do not have to hide mikes in the plants at meetings! = Attend meetings with a hidden wire!=20 Sincerely, Bob Harrison For sale: Used briefcase with hidden recorder.=20 --=20 This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 16 Mar 2008 20:35:34 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Lionel Evans Subject: Fw: [BEE-L] feral bees MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lionel Evans" To: Sent: Sunday, March 16, 2008 1:11 PM Subject: Re: [BEE-L] feral bees I did not realize that I was not sending this to BEE-L until I checked to see whewre it went. We remove bees from brick and vinyl sided houses without any damage to the structure. We, a couple of my fellow beeks and myself, do this for a fee. Normally it ends up being a losing proposition. We see ourselves doing this as a community service to help promote knowledge of honey bees, to help people remove what they feel is a problem, and keep them from killing the bees. We do several per year in North Alabama. We span about 25 mile radius area. Did not do very many in 2006 but did several in 2007. Sometimes we have to rent scaffolding to get to the elevation of the point of egress. This make it more expensive. We use a screen wire funnel to get the bees out of the structure and have a hive just under the screen with brood and some bees inside. We make sure the frame of brood and bees we start with has eggs to capped brood. Therefore they will raise a queen for themselves. The bees come out and cannot find a way back into the old site. Then they smell the brood in the hive below and feel needed and go in to work there. We have an inner cover that is made with an opening at the rear and the telescoping top is raised a little to give access. Only problem with this procedure is that bees can find the smallest access point, therefore we have to return each day until we have all openings sealed. This operation takes about 6-8 weeks. Sometimes we will have to make 10 trips to get the holes stopped. We use silicone caulking which the bees will sometimes chew out to make an opening. When we have completed the task, we will remove the screen to let the new bees rob the honey from the old location. This does not damage the siding and no holes have to be cut and repaired. P. S. We like honeybees!!!! Lionel North ALa. > > > > > > > **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2008 14:57:40 GMT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "deknow@netzero.net" Subject: Re: National meeting CD & DVD Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit i would rather see such money go to the speakers, or to the beekeeping organizations rather than to a recording company. what percentage of attendees own mini dv cameras? how many have high speed internet access to be able to upload for free to google video? why should this information that is important to the beekeeping industry cost $150? i can say that the videos i have put up recently (from the organic conference and maryann frazier's talk) have had almost 1000 downloads combined in just a short period of time. deknow -- Bob Harrison wrote: Hello All, I am now getting to hear the audio CD's of the National Beekeeping conference. These CD's are clear and the noise has been filtered out. You can order at: www.conferencerecording.com **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2008 11:15:35 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Aaron Morris Subject: Re: bee swarms returning to the hive In-Reply-To: <200803171239.m2HCHoWO013019@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit This happens often. Bees swarmed, there was no queen with the swarm, the swarm returns to the hive. This always happens with clipped queens. Swarm leaves with queen, queen can't fly and falls to the ground and is lost, swarm settles without queen, swarm senses no queen and returns to the hive where there are plenty of developing queens in cells. A few days later, when a virgin queen emerges, swarm and new queen leaves. It is as sure a bet as one gets in beekeeping that your hive will successfully swarm within a few days unless you take steps to keep the bees at home. Corrective actions can include Demaree Swarm Control, making splits, Snelgrove swarm control, all of which basically throw swarms from the original hive but successfully keep your bees at home rather than losing them to the wild. All methods are covered in the archives or can be googled for a full description. "If a colony disposed to swarm should be blown up with dynamite, it would probably not swarm again, but its usefulness as a honey-gathering institution would be somewhat impaired." C.C. Miller Aaron Morris - plugging http://bees.library.cornell.edu/ **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2008 11:36:51 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Aaron Morris Subject: Re: National meeting CD & DVD In-Reply-To: <200803171502.m2HDSkpl015046@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit > i would rather see such money go to > the speakers, or to the beekeeping > organizations rather than to a recording > company. Don't worry Dean, I'm sure all the bases are covered. Speakers got a slice of the pie through the fees they were paid to speak. Admittedly, they probably deserve a bigger slice. The recording company got a slice in the fees they charge for services rendered. Bob noted the improved quality over hiding microphones in plants. And rest assured, the organizations are getting a slice of the pie too. I do not know the percentages, but I would be very surprised if the lion's share goes elsewhere than the organizations. I also caution all to be wary of interpretations of what was said vs. listening to what was said. In other words, listen first hand rather than to reports of what was said. I also caution that a lot of what was recorded was speculation of what MAY be the problems vs. hard science about what ARE the problems. Trust me, I was there. And I hesitate to report, because then it would be me saying what they said and there is a possibility (probability?) that I will get it wrong. Admittedly again, a lot of the speculation sounded plausable. There is a lot of mixing of chems going on in an "open laboratory", the results of which are being released upon us. "Stacking" is downright scary. But the crying of "Wolf!" begs investigating if there is a wolf in the yard. If crying "Wolf!" begets everyone crying "Wolf! Wolf! Wolf!", we never know if there is a wolf in the yard. Support the investigation. If you can't write checks personally, encourage your associations to support the investigation. Aaron Morris - thinking there is a wolf in the yard, but it's wearing sheep clothing. **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2008 12:17:03 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Jerry Wallace Subject: Re: bee swarms returning to the hive In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I have observed this behavior twice, only in spring; I believe in both cases these were spring supercedure queens.??I hived one swarm that lit on the original hive and only?later realized the old hive had no queen or queen cells when it took about 4 weeks for?me to see lots of brood in cells again.??Did you find the new queen in the hive? Jerry Wallace **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2008 16:46:20 -0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Peter Edwards Subject: Re: bee swarms returning to the hive MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Heather Gamper wrote: > I am a new beekeeper and my bees swarmed into a near by oak tree this > morning, they were in the tree for about 45 minutes > and then they came back to the hive. Was your queen clipped? If so, she would not have flown with the swarm and they would return. Queen could be back in the hive or may have wandered off and got lost. If queen was not clipped, I would suggest that you may have had a swarm a week ago (the old queen would have gone with that) and what you saw today was a mating swarm with a new queen. If so, then you are lucky that they returned as these 'casts' often fly off. How will you know what has happened? Check the queen cells: if none have hatched (note that bees sometimes reseal hatched cells!) then the swarm was the old queen; if there are hatches then it was a new queen. Your next move depends on your knowing exactly what has happened, so perhaps ask another experienced beekeeper to have a look if you are not sure. Best wishes Peter Edwards beekeepers at stratford-upon-avon.freeserve.co.uk www.stratford-upon-avon.freeserve.co.uk/ **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2008 12:48:13 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Jerry Bromenshenk Subject: Re: National meeting CD & DVD MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Aaron I beg to differ - as a speaker at the National Meeting - I have not received any compensation from the recording company or anyone else. Also, I never signed a release or was asked to sign a release - wonder if the others were informed about this recording deal? I don't mind being recorded, but I'd like to know, and there should always be a release. And, I **************It's Tax Time! Get tips, forms, and advice on AOL Money & Finance. (http://money.aol.com/tax?NCID=aolprf00030000000001) **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2008 13:16:53 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Aaron Morris Subject: Re: National meeting CD & DVD In-Reply-To: <200803171710.m2HH5wrr027692@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Jerry wrote, "I have not received any compensation from the recording company or anyone else." Sorry Jerry, I stand corrected. I assumed speakers were compensated, although now that I think of it I should have known better. I assume expenses and fees were at least covered, but again I should know better. The "nationals" DO pinch their pennies. Aaron Morris - second thinking a "national" penny spent is a penny bruised! **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2008 13:22:50 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Jerry Bromenshenk Subject: Re: National meeting CD & DVD MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Aaron and list - my last message went out before it was complete. The heat from my hands sometimes triggers the touch pad. I agree that it is nice to have a full transcript of the national meeting. My question is similar to others - did the video company get paid a fee, and then harvest a $150 per set profit on top of the recording fee? Again, normally, I'd expect to sign a release - that's when I would have asked these questions. FYI, it only costs a couple of dollars to make copies of a CD or DVD set. Now, if the video company did this on video spec, then they will have equipment, travel, and salaries to recover, and fully I understand the charge for each set. If their expenses were paid, then I might question the cost of the sets, although I would have no objection if the money were to go back to the bee associations where it can be put to good use. Also, I've already had some fallout from the recording. I've folks who listened to audio in the absence of the video and slides, then drew erroneous conclusions about what my group said during the Commercial Beekeeper SIG. One of these is causing us some problems. If this meeting is going to be recorded, all of the presentation (images and audio) should be provided. Maybe the CD/DVD is complete - I haven't bought it. Jerry **************It's Tax Time! Get tips, forms, and advice on AOL Money & Finance. (http://money.aol.com/tax?NCID=aolprf00030000000001) **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2008 07:21:20 +1000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: queenbee Subject: Re: More Honey Market World Statistics MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In the site below supplied by Juanse the following appears:- "The colour of flowers from which bees collect nectar determines a honey's colour. For example, honey exports from Vietnam are typically dark amber because their source nectar is extracted from dark-coloured flowers. China makes the most honey, much of which is light-coloured." Not sure where this information came from but I would suggest it is wrong, particularly for Australia. Here we have Eucalypts that have white flowers and produce honey which goes in the 80's and 90's on the Pfund scale. Lucerne (alfalfa to those in North America) has a purple flower but doesn't produce dark honey. Just a few examples. Is it the same elsewhere? > http://world-trade-organization.suite101.com/article.cfm/top_honey_exporting_countries Trevor Weatherhead AUSTRALIA **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2008 09:52:50 +1200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Peter Bray Subject: Re: honey report march 10 2008 by Ron Phipps In-Reply-To: <7eb65cc10803161920m5d7fcce2id7602aefc23dc753@mail.gmail.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT On 16 Mar 2008 at 22:20, Juanse Barros wrote: > HONEY MARKET REPORT > > Any one have data on chinese production or honey trade after 2002 that can > share? http://www.airborne.co.nz/Wldstats.html Derived from mostly FAO stats database. Some other sources also. Regards, Peter Bray _________________________________________________________ Airborne Honey Ltd., Pennington St, PO Box 28, Leeston, New Zealand Fax 64-3-324-3236, Phone 64-3-324-3569 http://www.airborne.co.nz peter@airborne.co.nz **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2008 08:48:16 +0900 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Peter Detchon Subject: Re: Bee lines and feral bees MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="utf-8"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Gavin Ramsey asked "Is this a possible route for the rapid dissemination of spore-dispersed pathogens worldwide?" It sure is. Chinese pollen inadvertently fed to bees, is believed to have been the route by which Chalkbrood came to Western Australia, despite very stringent biosecurity controls. Peter Detchon Western Australia **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2008 19:25:11 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Alf_Bashore_II?= Subject: Re: National meeting CD & DVD Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Folks, Most all large conferences offer recording of the speakers. There are never visuals or copies of the slide show offered. There should be a release written in the contract signed when the speaker is hired. This is in the contract I receive whenever I perform at a music festival, because those events are recorded for their archives. I've been to nursing conferences, health conferences, and farming conferences where this is done. The recording company makes enough to cover the costs of equipment and time. In some instances the recording company loses money. The audio quality is not always great, but this depends on the venue and the way the speaker uses the mic. Audio tapes/cds can be a great tool, but do lack the understanding of seeing the slides and the speaker in action. Now if you wish a copy of the slide show or the notes, you will have to correspond directly with the presenter. Hope this all helps. Alf Bashore **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2008 19:50:46 -0800 Reply-To: k.kellison@earthlink.net Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Kathy Kellison Subject: Sperm MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Hi Chris, B.Baer found that "multiple insemination induces sperm competition and may select for longer, faster moving sperm..... and sperm length is highly variable among brothers, among unrelated conspecific males, and among males of different species" This study was on bumble bees, correct me if wrong, it has implications for reproductive physiology in honey bees. Kathy **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2008 06:37:48 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: =?UTF-8?Q?Peter_Borst?= Subject: Re: More Honey Market World Statistics Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit >"The colour of flowers from which bees collect nectar determines a honey's >colour. Complete nonsense. The lightest honey I have ever seen is that from black button sage (Salvia mellifera) which is a very strong smelling plant with blue flowers. The darkest I have had is buckwheat, which has white or pink flowers. Very light honey comes from alfalfa, which flowers are often dark purple. Although, in the Imperial Valley of California the same plant produces an amber honey, most likely due to the intense high temperatures. Avocado honey is very dark, the flowers are pale yellow. The mint family is one of the great honey producing families and has mostly small light colored flowers. The honey ranges from light to dark depending on the species. Rosemary and sage are usually light, thyme and lavender usually dark, etc. pb **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2008 07:33:41 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "Peter L. Borst" Subject: We have heard it all before MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline On Sun, 16 Mar 2008 09:51:32 -0700, JDP wrote: >"We have heard it all before, it's the same thing over and over again" Actually, the information I supplied was from a textbook on South African Beekeeping and Mike Allsopp's Master's Thesis. I doubt very seriously if very many of our readers have "heard it before". I have worked tirelessly to provide balanced, unbiased information which is based on hard science and utterly lacking any faith-based dogmatism. In South Africa they have always had small bees and use special small cell foundation. The bees will not accept US sized foundation. When varroa first arrived, they thrived in the colonies with small cells, reaching levels of 50% or 30,000 mites in a large colony. Hundreds of thousands of colonies died. > In periods of initial exposure to the mite, the "front" of the spread of varroa, mite populations built up extremely rapidly in the honeybee colonies of South Africa, even dramatically. As many as 50 000 mites were found in commercial colonies, and average mite numbers of more than 10 000 per colony were found. This initial surge in mite population growth was accompanied by all the classic symptoms of varroa mite damage (scattered brood pattern; bees with vestigial wings; large amounts of chalkbrood; "disappearing" colonies), and it appeared that the pattern being followed was similar to that witnessed elsewhere. During this initial stage, colony decline and mortality was not unusual, and *entire apiaries were lost* to what was demonstrably varroa damage, to the extent that many commercial beekeepers quickly turned to varroacide treatments to protect their colonies. -- Peter L. Borst Danby, NY USA 42.35, -76.50 http://picasaweb.google.com/peterlborst **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2008 14:29:05 +0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: =?iso-8859-1?B?QXJpIFNlcHDkbOQ=?= Subject: Re: We have heard it all before MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit >In South Africa ..... extent that many commercial beekeepers quickly turned >to varroacide treatments to protect their colonies. I talked with Mike Allsopp in Apimondia at Melbourne. He said that he recommends not to treat for varroa in Africa. When varroa comes there will be (and has been) losses, but the bees will recover. He did not state any numbers, but I understood that also commercial beekeepers are using now less chemical treatments. We have to remember that beekeeping in Africa is different. Replacements are more often done by caching wild swarms than making splits from existing colonies. And they know how to catch the swarms. One beekeeper told me that he had cought more than 100 wild swarms in season from one single location with bait hives. We were told that big part of these would be swarms that are moving from one area to another because there is not enough food where they used to live. Ari Seppälä Finland **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2008 09:50:30 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Jerry Wallace Subject: Re: Bee lines and feral bees In-Reply-To: <006601c88889$5f31dea0$0400a8c0@peter007> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Another?possible route for the dissemination of spore based pathogens worldwide is the reported widespread use of imported royal jelly by many commercial queen producers.? **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2008 10:27:13 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Juanse Barros Subject: Color of Honey MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline "The honey ranges from light to dark depending on the species." I have discovered that our Ulmo honey is a relative to tasmanian Leatherwood. Both are Eucriptias, our is cordiflora, tasmanian is lucida. Goldish color when fresh, liquid just harvest White ligth green to yellow when cristalice. Ours is buttery cream, aromatic very sweat taste honey. Late harvest. Flowers are white petals, yellow pistils. http://www.chilebosque.cl/tree/ecord.html How is the tasmanian leatherwood honey? -- Juanse Barros J. APIZUR S.A. Carrera 695 Gorbea - CHILE +56-45-271693 08-3613310 http://apiaraucania.blogspot.com/ juanseapi@gmail.com **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2008 14:50:33 GMT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "deknow@netzero.net" Subject: Re: National meeting CD & DVD Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit -- Jerry Bromenshenk wrote: I agree that it is nice to have a full transcript of the national meeting. My question is similar to others - did the video company get paid a fee, and then harvest a $150 per set profit on top of the recording fee? Again, normally, I'd expect to sign a release - that's when I would have asked these questions. >>>i would certainly agree with you 100% here jerry. my gut guess is that they did the recording on spec...but i don't think it's really in our ("beekeepers") best interest that it is done this way. (more below). FYI, it only costs a couple of dollars to make copies of a CD or DVD set. Now, if the video company did this on video spec, then they will have equipment, travel, and salaries to recover, and fully I understand the charge for each set. If their expenses were paid, then I might question the cost of the sets, although I would have no objection if the money were to go back to the bee associations where it can be put to good use. >>>this i also agree with...to a point. in this day and age, the technology to do this kind of recording literally costs a couple of hundred dollars. the bee association should buy a couple of cameras, and get responsible (and capable) beekeepers to do the recording on a volunteer basis (or reduced fee for attendance). for the price of 3 complete sets of cd/dvd, one could put buy all the equipment needed, and post them all online for free, allowing anyone with a decent internet connection to have free access to these talks. this seems like a no brainer to me. Also, I've already had some fallout from the recording. I've folks who listened to audio in the absence of the video and slides, then drew erroneous conclusions about what my group said during the Commercial Beekeeper SIG. One of these is causing us some problems. >>>you can always post the powerpoint presentation (which is where i assume your slides come from these days) online. this can clear up a lot of ambiguity. in the case of the maryann frazier video, i asked her specifically for permission to videotape and post her presentation..which she agreed to on the condition that i don't film any "data slides", as the results are incomplete, and not yet published. i had no problem with this, as we both agreed that the important thing was to get the information out to beekeepers...not to wait until publication...she gets high marks in my book for that attitude :) If this meeting is going to be recorded, all of the presentation (images and audio) should be provided. Maybe the CD/DVD is complete - I haven't bought it. >>>that's certainly a fair request...and i also think that you should get a cut if someone is selling your lecture (regardless of whether they recorded on spec or not). if it were me, i'd make a big fat stink about it, and demand a free copy for yourself (if you didn't sign a release either with the recording company or the group you were contracted to speak for, they have little to stand on here). >>>fwiw, i know that the videos i've posted (from the organic conference and the frazier video) are not pro quality. in all cases, videotaping was not the only thing i was responsible for while the talks were happening, so it was impossible to be 100% focused on making a "good tape". getting a good video of the speaker and the projector is always a bit difficult (and requires some forethought)...it can be done much better than i have done, even by an amature if there is a little focus on the video being one of the priorities. >>>that said, there have been 999 views of the 4 videos we have up...which i did everything with a mini dv camera i bought 4 years ago for $200 (factory refurb), tapes that cost $2 each, and a 5-6 year old laptop (with "windows movie maker"). hosting is free on google (unlimited file sizes). if anyone has footage they want to put online, i'm happy to help out (just figuring it out myself), and for expenses and $200/day, i'll come to almost any bee meeting in the country, and get the talks available online for free. >>>deknow **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2008 11:10:34 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Brian Fredericksen Subject: organic farms may pose a hazard to honeybees Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit the archives shows this material came up before in discussion. this recent publication implies that usage is increasing. from: http://www.organic-center.org/reportfiles/Pesticide_SSR_2008.pdf page 19 For organic farmers, Spinosad is the first new, highly effective insecticide approved for use on organic farms that works just as well, or better than many conventional insecticides. Despite its relatively high cost, many organic fruit and vegetable farmers have incorporated spinosad in their organic system plans, and some appear to be using it heavily. While far less risky to most organisms than the OPs and carbamates, spinosad is among the most toxic pesticides ever applied to bees. As with most pesticides the timing and knowledge of the applicator is key to reducing a risk to pollinators. **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2008 11:15:56 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Juanse Barros Subject: Talking about chileanhoney MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Unfortunatelly text is in spanish. http://apicongreso.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=15&Itemid=35 For sure in the congress will be direct translation availabe (for a fee I imagine). Visit Chile you won't regret. -- Juanse Barros J. APIZUR S.A. Carrera 695 Gorbea - CHILE +56-45-271693 08-3613310 http://apiaraucania.blogspot.com/ juanseapi@gmail.com **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2008 15:28:12 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Richard Stewart Subject: Re: organic farms may pose a hazard to honeybees In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v753) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Just to clarify, this has nothing to do with organic farms, but a pesticide sometimes used by both organic and traditional farms. Rich On Mar 18, 2008, at 11:10 AM, Brian Fredericksen wrote: > the archives shows this material came up before in discussion. this > recent publication implies that > usage is increasing. **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2008 19:03:08 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Jeffrey Hamelman Subject: Re: organic farms may pose a hazard to honeybees MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Just to clarify, this has nothing to do with organic farms, but a > pesticide sometimes used by both organic and traditional farms. > > Rich Actually, to clarify more accurately, organic farming was the norm for about 9800 years. To call our modern chemical agriculture either "traditional" or "conventional," (as it is most commonly called), is quite the misnomer. Jeffrey Hamelman Vermont **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2008 20:16:08 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: =?UTF-8?Q?Peter_Borst?= Subject: Re: We have heard it all before Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Ari Seppälä wrote: >I talked with Mike Allsopp in Apimondia at Melbourne. He said that he recommends not to treat for varroa in Africa. I discussed and quoted Mike's work at length last week. In February, I posted links to his thesis: http://tinyurl.com/yteskf http://upetd.up.ac.za/thesis/available/etd-08082007-153050/unrestricted/dissertation.pdf **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2008 18:10:21 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dee Lusby Subject: Re: organic farms may pose a hazard to honeybees In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Brian: While far less risky to most organisms than the OPs and carbamates, spinosad is among the most toxic pesticides ever applied to bees. Reply: Yes it is, and yet okay to use in proposed organic laws for beekeeping....Almost looks like business as usual from olden times that hurt us all badly, with many saying how can this be? Well, I've recently spoken about this explaining how I see it with the organic federal laws in general circumventing the FIFRA code, plus import/export laws, and food handling haws, and one reason for not wanting federal beekeeping organic laws finalized, besides other reasons. This action is certainly not organic. Sincerely, Dee A. Lusby ____________________________________________________________________________________ Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2008 18:16:59 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dee Lusby Subject: Re: organic farms may pose a hazard to honeybees In-Reply-To: <004c01c8894c$3d4faa10$6401a8c0@your252739f5c3> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Jeffery, So is it to call it organic, when it certainly is not, but instead business as normal in the way dopes/chemicals are applied, plus other things done to change laws and circumvent proper channels all in the name of a fast buck for a few. Dee ____________________________________________________________________________________ Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2008 20:03:31 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Paul Cherubini Subject: Re: organic farms may pose a hazard to honeybees MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Brian Fredericksen wrote: > http://www.organic-center.org/reportfiles/Pesticide_SSR_2008.pdf > While far less risky to most organisms than the > OPs and carbamates, spinosad is among the > most toxic pesticides ever applied to bees. Spinosad appears to be a hazard to bees only at the time of application and for 3 hours afterwards: Example: The Entrust Product Label says: http://www.cdms.net/ldat/ld62B023.pdf "This product is toxic to bee exposed to treatment and for 3 hours following treatment. Do not apply this pesticide to blooming, pollen shedding, or nectar producing parts of plants if bees may forage upon the plants during this time period." The label also says: "Entrust does not have a significant impact on certain parasitic insects or the natural predaceous arthropod complex in treated crops, including big-eyed bugs, ladybird beetles, Stethorus, flower bugs, lacewings,minute pirate bugs, damsel bugs, assassin bugs, predatory mites or spiders. The feeding activities of these beneficials will aid in natural control of other insects and reduce the liklihood of secondary pest outbreaks." Paul Cherubini El Dorado, Calif. **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2008 00:31:36 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Brian Fredericksen Subject: Re: organic farms may pose a hazard to honeybees Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit On Tue, 18 Mar 2008 15:28:12 -0400, Richard Stewart wrote: >Just to clarify, this has nothing to do with organic farms, but a >pesticide sometimes used by both organic and traditional farms. > >Rich excellent point in the words of the gun lobby - pesticides don't kill bees - people do **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2008 06:51:11 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "Peter L. Borst" Subject: first ordinance in Florida banning Africanized honey bees MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline The Martin County Commission Tuesday passed what may be the first ordinance in Florida banning Africanized honey bees, capable of stinging children and animals to death. The ordinance authorizes county officials to obtain a warrant to remove the bees and their hives from private property. It also authorizes county officials to charge property owners for removal and court costs. There have been 22 complaints about the highly aggressive bees in two years in Martin County. The number is expected to rise because bee colonies split eight to 16 times a year, said Gene Lemire, the county's mosquito control administrator. The new ordinance will help county officials deal more effectively with rental and abandoned properties when bees have stung people or pets and owners can't be reached or won't respond to requests to get rid of an Africanized honey bee colony, Lemire said. "It's very tough to find an ordinance out there on Africanized bees," Lemire said. "I think this will be the first one in the state of Florida." -- The Stuart News/Port St. Lucie News **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2008 05:24:04 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: C Hooper Subject: Video: Bee Venom Therapy Used to Treat ALS, PLS, MS, Arthritis MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII Video: Bee Venom Therapy Used to Treat ALS, PLS, MS, Arthritis http://apitherapy.blogspot.com/2008/03/video-bee-venom-therapy-used-to-treat_19.html In France, bee venom therapy is being used to reduce the development of amyotrophic lateral sclerosis (ALS), primary lateral sclerosis (PLS), multiple sclerosis (MS), and arthritis. **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2008 18:35:10 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "=?windows-1252?Q?J._Waggle?=" Subject: Spring Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit The Republican Compiler Wednesday, May 20, 1829 Gettysburg, Pennsylvania SPRING (From One of the Annuals) Spring, where are you tarrying now. Why are you so long unfelt? Winter went a mouth ago, When the snow began to melt. I am coming, little maiden, With the pleasant sunshine laden; With the honey for the bee, With the blossom, for the tree, With the flower and with the leaf; ‘Till I come the time is brief. I am coming, I am coming! Hark! the little bee is humming; See, the lark is soaring high In the bright and sunny sky; And the gnats are on the wing-- Little maiden—now is spring! See, the yellow catkins cover All the slender willows over; And on mossy banks so green Starlike primroses are seen; And their clustering leaves below White and purple violets blow. Hark' the little lambs are bleating; And the cawing rooks are meeting In the elms, a noisy crowd; And all the birds are singing loud; And the first white butterfly In the sun goes flitting by. Little maiden, look around thee! Green and flowery fields surround thee, Every little stream is bright; All the orchard trees are white; And each small and waving shoot Has for thee sweet flower of fruit. Turn thy eyes to earth and heaven! God for thee the spring has given; Taught the birds their melodies; Cloth'd the earth and cleared the skies: For thy pleasure or thy food— Four thy soul in gratitude; So may’st thou ‘midst blessings dwell, Little maiden, fare thee well! **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2008 18:16:55 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "J. Waggle" Subject: Re: Spring In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit There is a typo in the Spring poem The 3rd line from the last: > Four thy soul in gratitude; should read: Pour thy soul in gratitude; While I’m here, I post a children’s Bee poem. Hope I don't find more errors, I'm running out of poems. ;) Excerpt from the book: Juvenile Poems 1828 THE BEE. Maria hears the humming bee, And shrinks with fear his form to see; Maria need not be afraid; It will not hurt the little maid. Though on her arm it choose to light, The noisy insect will not bite; Unless she tries to strike it down; Be wise, and leave it quite alone, If kindly us’d bees seldom sting; There see, again it spreads its wing; ‘Tis going home to leave its store, Then back will come, to seek for more. Look in the hive---observe their plan, And find a lesson there for man: No idle inmate will you see, Forever active is the bee. Joe http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/HistoricalHoneybeeArticles “Without passion there might be no errors, but without passion there would certainly be no history.” C. V. Wedgwood ____________________________________________________________________________________ Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2008 05:39:25 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: C Hooper Subject: Indian University to Study Medicinal Stingless Bee Honey MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII Indian University to Study Medicinal Stingless Bee Honey TN Agri Varsity to Take Up Research on Sting-Less Bees Business Line (India), 3/20/2008 http://apitherapy.blogspot.com/2008/03/indian-university-to-study-medicinal.html ..According to the TNAU Director of Research, Dr B, Chandrasekharan, the project is intended to evolve techniques for multiplying and managing these bee colonies for obtaining twin benefits of medicinal honey and crop pollination for the end-users... **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2008 09:50:05 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: CCD? In-Reply-To: <14909.5749.qm@web56409.mail.re3.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello All, Yesterday I was working at the bee farm and Bell Hill Honey had stopped by. A hobby beekeeper had came over with his two dead outs for us to look at. He is in an area which has no other beekeepers. he and his father before him have kept bees.(as a hobby) He had received two packages off the same 900 package bee shipment from California myself and Bell Hill Honey had received packages. He installed and the hives grew strong. Produced two supers of honey each. When he last looked in October both hives were boiling with bees. When he checked a few weeks ago the two deeps contained around 7 frames of sealed honey and 4 frames of pollen. A small bunch of around a 100 dead bees with heads in cells (which had fresh queen eggs laid ,some larva and some emerging brood. Maybe 20 dead adult bees on bottom board. Both hives almost exactly alike. As we talked with the beekeeper we pulled all the brood from the cells and dead adult bees. Not one dead varroa mite or bee with deformed wings. No PMS or AFB or EFB. The hive had simply dwindled and the bees disappeared. What happened to these bees? Despite what the CCD group describes as huge amounts of brood left Midwest beekeepers feel this is a clue which needs explained further or dropped from the equation. In the Midwest bees wintered go broodless for the most part so YOU ARE NOT GOING TO SEE huge amounts of brood left in spring in the Midwest. Period! The dead will either be with head in cells or on the bottom board. The above hobby beekeeper provided me with valuable input and so we are setting up an experiment. He is getting four new packages. two he is going to install on the two hives with the huge amount of drawn comb with last years honey and pollen. The other two he is going to install on new equipment. run this year and report his findings. The beekeeper is in an area without corn or row crops. No chemicals have ever been used on the last years comb. Is his problem CCD? Myself , the owner of Bell Hill Honey and his employee plus the beekeeper feel the two dead hives fit the description. Also fits the description I hear from commercial beeks claiming CCD and what I observe looking at their hives. Sure there are large amounts of brood left when the hives crash at certain times of the year but most of the time you see simply dwindling. The hobby beekeeper sought me out for advice which I freely will give but got lucky and over a 100 years of beekeeping experience observed his dead outs. In all my own 48 years of keeping bees I have never seen so many dead outs with the bees nowhere to be found. The bees have to be flying out to die. There is no other possibility. Which also confirms in my mind a paralysis virus is not involved. Bees with a paralysis virus CAN NOT fly. The sign after death signs of paralysis virus is a hive with all the bees dead on the bottom board. The in last stages signs are bees on the bottom board looking like maggots or just out the entrance looking like maggots. The bees can not even hold on to the comb. I have watched a hive die from paralysis virus on several occasions. Found others after the hive has died. Not common for sure but does happen since the mites have arrived. A very high varroa load is usually involved. The bees I have seen right after a pesticide kill in years gone past act different. The bees die quicker and are not as active. At times you see a line for many feet of bees hitting the ground trying to return to the hive. With paraylis virus the bees are always directly out the entrance or about an inch thick on the bottom board. Busy day today but I woke up twice last night thinking about the beekeepers hives. His bees disappeared using 2 of the same package bees (of which we received about half the load and ours did fine). he installed on new foundation. Our bees look great this year but we still find hives with the bees gone. Eric Mussen spoke at the Missouri State Beekeepers meeting and said he still believes a pathogen is responsible and he says one reason he believes is that a organic beekeeper in Wyoming moves into Alfalfa seed pollination with a commercial beekeeper which has reported CCD problems (the lure of money can cause beekeepers to take risks) and each season when he pulls those hives he sees bees crashing with CCD type symptoms. His other hives are fine. Eric explained that only a pathogen could explain the issue. I agree but what pathogen? Sincerely, Bob Harrison -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2008 13:05:53 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Richard Stewart Subject: Re: CCD? In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v753) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Bob I am new to all of this, but I am curious, when you say new equipment, do you mean he will be installing new manufactured foundation? Or will he let the bees make their own? Or foundation that is KNOWN to be clean of any chemicals? It would be a whole lot more valid of an experiment, I think, if he had KNOWN chemical free wax at the start (either pressed out by him or built from scratch by the bees). Just curious and trying to help. Rich On Mar 20, 2008, at 10:50 AM, Bob Harrison wrote: > The above hobby beekeeper provided me with valuable input and so we > are > setting up an experiment. He is getting four new packages. two he > is going > to install on the two hives with the huge amount of drawn comb with > last > years honey and pollen. The other two he is going to install on new > equipment. run this year and report his findings. **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2008 15:48:05 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Aaron Morris Subject: SABA Spring Seminar, March29, 2008 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable There is still time to register fot the Southern Adirondack Beekeepers = Association 2008 Spring Seminar=20 March 29th, 2008; 9 A.M. - 5 P.M.; University at Albany, Albany, NY. =20 Featured Speakers:=20 Dr. Zachary Huang of Michigan State University:=20 Honey Bee Photography and Do GMO Crops Affect Bees?=20 =20 Dr. David Tarpy of North Carolina State University:=20 Honey Bee Anatomy and The Life of a Worker=20 =20 Dennis vanEngelsdorp, Pennsylvania State Apiarist=20 CCD Update and Hobbyists Are the Future=20 =20 Location:=20 Lecture Center One (sub level), University at Albany, 1400 Washington = Ave., Albany NY=20 [ Same place as in 2003 - 2007 ]=20 =20 Cost: =20 Pre-registered, $25 each, postmarked by 3/21. This includes refreshment = breaks. Lunch is available nearby.=20 There are plenty of seats available, walk-ins are welcome. Walk-in cost = at the door: $35 each.=20 Presentations run consecutively.=20 Raffle drawings held at 4:45.=20 =20 Friday night Dinner:=20 SABA has arranged for a get-together dinner at a nearby restaurant the = night before the seminar. =20 Speakers usually attend. (Mark your registration and send $30 deposit.) = =20 Hotels:=20 This year SABA is not arranging a block of rooms at one hotel. 3 hotels = are extremely close by: Marriott Courtyard (518-435-1600) 1455 = Washington Ave., Marriott Fairfield (518-435-1800) 1383 Washington Ave. = and Best Western Sovereign (518-963-7666) 1228 Western Ave. =20 Vendors: =20 Betterbee and Brushy Mountain will each have a display and sales table.=20 =20 Questions? Contact Anne Frey (SABA@capital.net) Use seminar as the = subject line, or call 518-895-8744.=20 =20 Information and registration form available at: = http://www.adirondackbees.org/dl-docs/2008-03-29-seminar.pdf **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2008 16:28:30 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Brian Fredericksen Subject: Re: CCD? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In the far north here (central MN) we routinely see dinks like you describe in spring. this has been my experience and others for decades. what is common with these dinks is a large number of dead bees accumulating on the snow though out the winter and sometimes but not always on the bottom board. with a remaining cluster of anywhere from a couple of hundred bees to maybe 2 frames or so of bees. most have queens, some do not and are queenless. the other common variable sometimes associated with these dinks is heavy poop staining on the out side box or on the hive wrap and ground around the hives. obviously we see colder temps here then in MO where Bob is wriiting from. without speculating on whether this is CCD or not, I'm just saying this is a common spring find here in the north. i had record winter losses last spring - this year we have normal losses around 5-8%. we've had 30 plus nights below zero this winter and a long winter since Dec 1st as compared to the last 6 years. after last winters experience i checked my hives routinely this winter every 3 weeks or so when we had a warm spell. i had a first wave of losses in december presumably the weak or mite damaged and this is typical from my experience. then no more additional losses until march. march losses appeared to be mostly on those colonies which started laying brood early which was followed by a below zero snap and the cluster starved out because they did not want to abandon brood and move up or sideways in the stack. so far I feel blessed to have normal winter losses and a large number of nucs and hives to work with if it ever warms up beyond the teens to 40s. i must say that the 44 9 frame russian nucs I wintered had the least number of dead bees on the ground and they hardly used any feed all winter. this was my first winter with pure russians. they look like a very tough bee and ideal for my climate. **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2008 18:46:02 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: bill bartlett Subject: We need to change the way we farm MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Farming and beekeeping are all connected. I thought this article that I = wrote would be of interest to some on this list. We need to change the way we farm. There are several things that are = changing that will require us to farm in ways that most farmers don't do = today. The energy we use to run our farm machinery is continuing to = increase. Farmers plow the fields, disc, rake, plant, cultivate, apply = pesticides and herbicides, irrigate and harvest the crop. There is a = need to decrease these steps in order to save energy, keep the costs of = farming down, improve our environment and still provide affordable food = to feed the world.=20 There has been much discussion about fossil fuels that will someday run = out. Burning fossil fuels contributes to global warming and the costs of = fossil fuels will continue to rise. Other direct costs to farmers are = fertilizer, pesticides and herbicides. These are all made from crude = oil. Commercial fertilizers release nitrous oxide into the air which is = a greenhouse gas. Any unused fertilizer either soaks into the ground = which ends up in the ground water which will at some point in time be = released into streams or become runoff. The excess nitrogen then adds to = the woes of the Chesapeake Bay by aiding algae growth. I don't think we = know enough about what pesticides are doing to the environment. They are = being looked at as a possible cause of CCD (colony collapse disorder) = which is causing the loss of honey bees.=20 The American Indians learned that by planting fish along with their = seeds they could get a better crop. They also learned that to continue = with this practice left too much oil in the soil and reversed their crop = gain. They had to change growing fields for awhile until the oil = dissipated. Our early settlers soon found that if they continued to grow = tobacco on the same ground, year after year, that they too saw a poorer = crop each year. They found that if they let the land lay fallow for a = few years that they could go back and plant tobacco again.=20 When we apply commercial fertilizers to crop residues they decompose = faster and are mostly lost to the addition of humus to the soil. There = is also the prospect of using crop residues for the production of = ethanol. This too would subtract from the plants adding organic matter = to the soil. We can't hope that growing crops for ethanol is the answer = to our energy problems. We can already see what it has done to food = prices.=20 We need to learn not to waste things. Animal manure has its place in = farming if it is done right. If you apply it directly to the fields, = some will wash off into the streams before it can be an effective soil = builder. Before manure is applied it should be composted to some degree = to reduce the amount of nitrogen. What is left will add much carbon to = the soil. This would be aerobic (with oxygen) composting. Then there is = anaerobic digestion. This is without oxygen. It will produce methane gas = which can be used as fuel and also removes some nitrogen. Either method = should be used before depositing manure on farm land. We have learned that we can grow cover crops that capture nutrients and = add humus to the soil. Much of the soil we have today does not have much = humus (top soil). Some of the earth we plant in is just a medium to hold = up the plants while we feed them synthetic commercial fertilizer. We can = do the same thing with hydroponics. We can grow plants in sand or poke = the roots through holes in plastic sheets and spray the roots with water = and nutrients. We need to practice farming methods that increase the = humus in the soil. We also need to plant those type of plants that = sequester nitrogen and carbon from the air and deposit them into the = ground to eliminate the use of commercial fertilizers. Soil with humus = also holds more water and nutrients and prevents them from running off = or soaking into the ground water. This would mean less irrigation and = less commercial fertilizers. We have made progress planting cover crops = and utilizing no-till farming. But there is another way. We need to do more organic no-till farming. This is growing crops like = legumes that capture nitrogen and carbon from the air and put it into = the ground. These crops would be grown, shredded, rolled flat and the = new crop planted by no-till method all in one pass. The equipment to do = this has been developed by the Rodale Institute in Pennsylvania. This = method has been tested by Rodale and has shown that it can reduce the = 39% nitrogen that ultimately reaches the Chesapeake Bay from = agriculture. At the same time it would restore our once fertile land to = some resemblance of what was here many years ago.=20 Bill Bartlett **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2008 17:34:32 GMT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "waldig@netzero.net" Subject: Re: CCD? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit >>A hobby beekeeper had came over with his two dead outs for us to look at. <...> He had received two packages... Just curious: have people who don't buy packages or queens and who raise their own queens and make splits experienced CCD-like dwindling? I am wondering if the package industry is spreading something out there. Waldemar **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2008 19:14:39 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: randy oliver Subject: Re: CCD? In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline > Is his problem CCD? Myself , the owner of Bell Hill Honey and his employee > plus the beekeeper feel the two dead hives fit the description. Also fits > the > description I hear from commercial beeks claiming CCD and what I observe > looking at their hives. Well, Bob, it looks like you finally found the CCD that you were looking for! Sounds typical of what I and others are seeing. Doesn't need any association with chemicals, and likely little with mites or nosema (although both of those cause a lot of collapses, also). I agree with Dr Mussen on the pathogen issue. I strongly suspect virus, and am having samples tested. Here is a test that you can do: take the remaining sick bees, blend them in a grinder with some water, then spray the solution over pounds of shook bees and introduce them into colonies. See if they get sick. Note that some colonies will have innate resistance to some viruses, so best to test at least 100 colonies. We are all eager to hear the results! Should answer some questions that have been recurring on this List. Randy Oliver Grafting from survivors **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2008 22:40:37 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Juanse Barros Subject: CCD? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Waldemar "I am wondering if the package industry is spreading something out there". In the idea of a source for the spread of CCD, there is a very interesting letter in the ABJ of March 2008. The letter is from Ko Zoet from the Netherlands and he makes a conecction between Primorsky "russian" bees, Nosema ceranae and CCD . "They have developed a degree of resistance against Nosema ceranae. At the same time, they are the intermediary between Apis cerana and other mellifera bees by transmitting Nosema ceranae" If one thinks that a colony - because the queen mates with 15-20 drones - is a set of subfamilies (each dougthers of a given drone) one may think that the resistance to CCD/NosemaC must come from the father side, and therefore, the subfamilies that dwindle in winter come from the non resistance one, but the ones that are left with the queen are resistant stock. How ever this queen is non resistant. We can not breed from this survivers, we need to develop a method to grade the resistance. -- Juanse Barros J. APIZUR S.A. Carrera 695 Gorbea - CHILE +56-45-271693 08-3613310 http://apiaraucania.blogspot.com/ juanseapi@gmail.com **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2008 04:45:02 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: C Hooper Subject: Global Warming Impacts Nectar Collection, Honey MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII Global Warming Impacts Nectar Collection, Honey Global Warming Rushes Timing of Spring By Seth Borenstein, Associated Press, 3/20/2008 http://apitherapy.blogspot.com/2008/03/global-warming-impacts-nectar.html ...You can even taste it in the honey. Bees, which sample many plants, are producing their peak amount of honey weeks earlier. The nectar is coming from different plants now, which means noticeably different honey... **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2008 05:31:11 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: C Hooper Subject: Video: Processing Raw Propolis MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII Video: Processing Raw Propolis http://apitherapy.blogspot.com/2008/03/video-processing-raw-propolis.html **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2008 22:57:48 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Peter_de_Bruyn_Kops?= Subject: Re: CCD? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Baseball and softball size clusters in March (dead or alive) have been common in New Hampshire for at least 10 years. Here is an explanation of how it can happen. If varroa populations are high in September, the long-lived winter bees which are being raised at that time will be harmed and have their life expectancy shortened. When these bees are approaching end of life, they have the urge to leave the hive which they will do even at 30 deg F (-1 deg C) in February. If the beekeeper treated for varroa in late September or early October, a post-mortem in March will reveal few if any varroa. Cold weather inspections/disturbances and certain types of winter feeding can add stress and thereby reduce lifespan further, so sometimes it takes a combination of varroa in September and beekeeper meddling in February to produce a dink in March. Been there, done that. **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2008 14:13:18 GMT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "deknow@netzero.com" Subject: Re: CCD? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Waldemar: "I am wondering if the package industry is spreading something out there". ...if whatever ccd is is transmittable, then yes, the package industry spreads it. the following was posted to bee-l last june by Jerry Bromenshenk, a member of the ccd research team: "Members of the CCD Working Group have seen and sampled CCD operations since almonds, in both the west and the east. Some were in queen/package operations at a critical time. " deknow **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2008 14:03:02 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: =?UTF-8?Q?Peter_Borst?= Subject: a *better* way Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit >"I am wondering if the package industry is spreading something out there". Personally, I deplore any sort of scapegoating. First, it appears that whatever it is, it's already everywhere (meaning most states). Second, beekeeping what it is -- it is very hard not to be "down the road" from a large scale operation of some sort, so our bees are generally going to have what everybody else has. Third, we should try to think of this as a problem for us all, rather than us and them. If there are people who have healthy bees, healthy stock, etc. they should be sharing what it is they do and do not do, so that others can pick up on what works. Beyond that, if you really have better stock, people may wish to purchase it. So, therefore, you need to know what is causing this problem and see that you don't have it. Otherwise people will be accusing you of spreading it -- which you might actually be doing. Finally, I want to say that from my perspective, we all need to be able to shift gears quickly. The old ways are good, the organic ways are good, etc. But what we really need is something that takes into consideration all of the actual problems and presents a *better* way of dealing with them. I would rather disavow everything I have ever said and move forward -- than to stick in some misguided rut. pb **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2008 15:04:10 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Brian Fredericksen Subject: Re: CCD? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Since movements of bees are so frequent is this country my sense is that any pathogen variable of CCD is likely widespread given the wide geographical range of CCD reports. So if a package or shipped queen does not give you the variable your local migratory beekeeper could bring it home. >From what we know today my guess is the following is an equation for CCD ((stress)*(comb contamination))+(pathogens)= CCD Our leading bee researchers like Petis and Musen and Spivak have been saying this in various ways from the onset. It might come down to individual practices that increase one or more the 3 variables. As we know increased mite levels can allow the onset of a virus thats already at low levels. Nosema Ceranae could obviously be substituted in place of a virus for the pathogen contribution. **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2008 13:23:14 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dee Lusby Subject: Re: CCD? In-Reply-To: <20080320.103432.24261.0@webmail21.dca.untd.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Waldemar: While talking about the package bee industry spreading something, could by any chance, required treatments of bees prior to shipments, and/or strips, or other modes of treatments in packages, beforehand for shipment be part of the problem? What does this do to new queens? and/or new bees supposedly then having to restart? Dee A. Lusby ____________________________________________________________________________________ Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * ****************************************************