From MAILER-DAEMON Sat Feb 28 11:10:46 2009 Return-Path: <> X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.8 (2007-02-13) on industrial X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-90.2 required=2.4 tests=AWL,MAILTO_TO_SPAM_ADDR, SPF_HELO_PASS,USER_IN_WHITELIST autolearn=disabled version=3.1.8 X-Original-To: adamf@IBIBLIO.ORG Delivered-To: adamf@IBIBLIO.ORG Received: from listserv.albany.edu (unknown [169.226.1.24]) by metalab.unc.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3E1AE49095 for ; Sat, 28 Feb 2009 11:03:40 -0500 (EST) Received: from listserv.albany.edu (listserv.albany.edu [169.226.1.24]) by listserv.albany.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id n1SG3Y7E017265 for ; Sat, 28 Feb 2009 11:03:39 -0500 (EST) Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2009 11:03:35 -0500 From: "University at Albany LISTSERV Server (14.5)" Subject: File: "BEE-L LOG0803E" To: adamf@IBIBLIO.ORG Message-ID: Content-Length: 18278 Lines: 450 ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2008 17:49:08 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Brian Fredericksen Subject: the mystery continues Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit http://www.sunherald.com/306/story/457431.html "We lost 40 percent of the hives we sent there. We sent 70,000 out and lost 28,000," said Adee, whose Adee Honey Farms in Bruce is considered the largest beekeeping operation in the nation." http://home.ezezine.com/1636/1636-2008.03.24.11.24.archive.html "Meanwhile, in the Palm Beach Post today, Dr. Jeff Pettis is quoted saying that the losses this year from CCD appear to be worse than last year. His survey shows that of the 22 commercial beekeepers he surveyed, coming from 10 different states, all of whom went to California to pollinate almonds, operating a total of 230,000 colonies (about 16% of the bees that went to California this season), about 37% have been lost to CCD like symptoms. This compares to a similar survey last year at this time where only a 30% loss was recorded. That’s a 20% increase this year, so far." **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2008 06:47:58 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: =?UTF-8?Q?Peter_Borst?= Subject: Re: the mystery continues Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit "Take home message" Adee's operation, has regional offices in Bakersfield, Calif.; Cedar Rapids, Neb., and Woodville, Miss. He hopes the bees that survived California are resistant to whatever is emptying the hives. "We say we're going to breed from the survivors because we want to be survivors. That's kind of our motto now." **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2008 09:00:37 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Carl & Virginia Webb Subject: Re: the mystery continues MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Peter quotes Adee: "We say we're going to breed from the survivors because we want to be = survivors.---" What are the alternatives since you can not breed from dead bees. You = could however look for and breed from proven survivor stock. Carl **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2008 09:31:56 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Walter Zimmermann Subject: the mystery continues- well sort of MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable as reported by =20 _http://www.stcatharinesstandard.ca/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=3D963779_=20 (http://www.stcatharinesstandard.ca/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=3D963779)=20 =20 Beehive Decline - Fact or Fiction March 28, 2008 =20 =20 Public Meeting organized by: Niagara Branch of the Ontario Institute of=20 Agrologists (OIA)=20 Speakers were: =20 Mr. Doug McRory, Provincial Apiarist, Ont. Ministry of Agriculture, Food an= d=20 Rural Affairs (OMAFRA). =E2=80=9CGlobal Importance of Honeybees to Society= =E2=80=9D=20 Dr. Ernesto Guzman, Dept. of Environmental Biology, University of Guelph. =20= =E2=80=9C Colony Collapse Disorder. Do we have it?=E2=80=9D=20 Mr. Murray Puddicombe, Puddicombe Estate Farms and Winery, Winona. =E2=80= =9C Importance of Bees to the Niagara Fruit Industry=E2=80=9D=20 Ms. Hannah Fraser, Entomology Lead, Horticulture, OMAFRA, Vineland.=20 Rapporteur=20 Mr. Charlie Parker, Parker Bee Apiaries, Beamsville. =E2=80=9CBeehive Situ= ation for=20 2008=E2=80=9D=20 Sponsors: Niagara Peninsula Fruit & Vegetable Growers Associatio= n=20 Ontario Tender Fruit Producers Marketing Board=20 Ontario Ministry of Agriculture, Food & Rural Affairs=20 =20 **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2008 12:23:31 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: =?windows-1252?Q?Steve_Noble?= Subject: the mystery continues- well sort of Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit >From the article: (http://www.stcatharinesstandard.ca/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=963779) “The cost of the bee deaths to agriculture in Ontario was $54 million, Guzman noted. That's nearly one-third of the total value of crops directly associated with honeybee pollination.” "Agriculture Canada pegs pollination as a $1-billion-a-year business nationally - 10 times the value of honey produced." Why do I get the feeling that these numbers sometimes just get plucked out of thin the air? Guess it's just the sceptic in me. Steve Noble **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2008 16:54:31 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Brian Fredericksen Subject: Re: the mystery continues Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Do you think bees can be bred to withstand heavy brood comb contamination or for life in a holding yard with 70,000 colonies ? If the news came today that overly medicated chickens were dying by the millions in feedlot containment facilities would anyone be surprised? Would there be any mystery? Should USDA start a big research program into why sickly birds kept in an unnatural density are .......surprise living a unsustainable exsistance? I wonder if the Adee's will maintain so many colonies in such close proximity in the future. One could argue that their losses may have been mitigated if not for the packing densities. So how devasting is CCD if you keep your bees dispersed and reduce mingling between locations? These are not the questions that some seek as it does not fit into their paradigm. My point is that while CCD appears deadly, is the situation made worse by the honeybee feedlot management techniques that have emerged in the last decade? Just like losses in a livestock or poultry containment facilities can create a domino effect, likewise the migratory industry is doomed for one crisis after another as more and more colonies will be moved each year to CA for the ever increasing almond pollination demand. As the system is stressed, more bottom feeder operations will move their hives to CA and more non-USA sourced bees will be brought in to solve the "crisis" and add to the cesspool of disease, pests and unknowns. As long as pollination prices stay high their will be beekeepers willing to spin the bottle and go for the jackpot or bust. I feel for our CA brothers and sisters who have no where to hide......... **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2008 18:07:39 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: =?UTF-8?Q?Peter_Borst?= Subject: Re: the mystery continues Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Carl & Virginia Webb wrote: >What are the alternatives since you can not breed from dead bees. The alternatives include restocking with bees from other regions like Australia, which may not have any resistance to our problems; or making splits and requeening with commercially available resistant stock. The other plan, Adee's plan, is to use survivors and it's a good idea -- if any survive. The problem is, did they survive because they were more vigorous, or are they just lucky? pb **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2008 15:12:04 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "J. Waggle" Subject: Re: the mystery continues In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit > about 37% have been lost to CCD like symptoms. Now we have ‘CCD like symptoms’? To make a statement of ‘CCD like symptoms’ is IMO deceitful, and playing into the hysteria. Is it CCD symptoms or isn’t it? OR is it ’like’ ccd? Many bee maladies can resemble “CCD like symptoms”. OR should I say “CCD like symptoms” can resemble many bee maladies. I’m continually seeing “I was hit with CCD” threads on other lists which CLEARLY are not confirmable cases, whereas they are easily explainable by other maladies or stresses. Are “like symptoms” a suitable diagnosis?,,, I should think not! I am starting a organization for the promotion of correct analysis of symptoms in honeybee maladies and colony mortality be implemented before the concluding with any diagnosis. The name of the organization is: National Organization for Teaching how to Conclude with a Correct Diagnosis We will be using the acronym: 'Not CCD' Our charter is: That a final diagnosis of any honeybee maladies and mortality be made lastly, and only after all other causes are positively ruled out. To aid in the enforcement of the charter rule, we adopt the motto: A ‘diagnosis should come lastly, instead of the firstly.’ Or for those that like acronyms, the easy to remember: DSCLIF. ;) Membership is free to all. Best Wishes, Joe ____________________________________________________________________________________ No Cost - Get a month of Blockbuster Total Access now. Sweet deal for Yahoo! users and friends. http://tc.deals.yahoo.com/tc/blockbuster/text1.com **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2008 18:21:12 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "Peter L. Borst" Subject: Re: the mystery continues MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline I received this email: > I hope you meant that ironically......a beekeeper with branch offices for Christ sake! aaarrggghhh! I have no particular prejudice against large scale beekeeping, nor small scale. Large scale beekeepers are mostly people who started out small and succeeded for one reason or another. That's nothing to scoff at. Many of them employ skilled beekeepers and offer them things they might not get on their own: steady work, steady pay, health plans, etc. To me the important thing is: do you love what you do? I don't know the Adees but I expect that they are in the bee business because they want to be. Maybe they are trying to get into raising almonds, too. A friend of mine tried to supplement his beekeeping with a sideline as a realtor. There's another industry that's not doing too well these days! I don't know why this keeps coming up: "big operators are the bad guys". I prefer to think of them as beekeepers. I sort of like beekeepers, always have. Sure, some are jerks, you find that in any crowd. Still, you can't even be a beekeeper without a strong knowledge of meteorology, botany, entomology, etc., even if you don't use those terms. pb **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2008 17:25:43 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: Re: the mystery continues- well sort of In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="UTF-8"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > (http://www.stcatharinesstandard.ca/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=963779) Ok. Canada says they have got no CCD. Which means their problems are caused by the same old problems beekeepers have been fighting. If so then their huge 2007 die off falls in the area of what we call PPB (P--- Poor beekeeping). KBV was reported to have killed a huge number of hives in the peace river district a few short years ago. No report since then. Silence. All CCD samples had KBV and nosema. Its actually too early to report on this spring in Canada yet. Most do not unwrap till mid April. i feel like Steve Noble. lets hear exactly what was found in some of the dead out samples. KBV? IAPV? N.ceranae? Researcher opinions not backed up by research only confuse the issue. bob **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2008 19:13:05 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Chris Slade Subject: Re: the mystery continues MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 31/03/2008 22:33:16 GMT Standard Time, amesfarm@HOTMAIL.COM writes: likewise the migratory industry is doomed for one crisis after another as more and more colonies will be moved each year to CA for the ever increasing almond pollination demand. It occurs to me to wonder why California seems to have a near monopoly of world almond production and for how long this will continue. Having seen (via links from this List) photographs of the unnatural extreme monocultural conditions under which almonds are grown I wonder how long they will thrive and prosper. Other countries where bees cope better with mites and diseases, South Africa for example, and where the climate might be equally suitable for almonds might be well placed to compete with Ca. Chris **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2008 19:28:05 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Chris Slade Subject: Re: the mystery continues MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 31/03/2008 23:20:09 GMT Standard Time, peterlborst@GMAIL.COM writes: The problem is, did they survive because they were more vigorous, or are they just lucky? Is luck a heritable character? What may look at first like random chance may, upon analysis, be the result of subtle unnoticed differences. Chris **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * ****************************************************