From MAILER-DAEMON Sat Feb 28 11:10:12 2009 Return-Path: <> X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.8 (2007-02-13) on industrial X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-87.0 required=2.4 tests=ADVANCE_FEE_1,AWL, MAILTO_TO_SPAM_ADDR,SPF_HELO_PASS,USER_IN_WHITELIST autolearn=disabled version=3.1.8 X-Original-To: adamf@IBIBLIO.ORG Delivered-To: adamf@IBIBLIO.ORG Received: from listserv.albany.edu (unknown [169.226.1.24]) by metalab.unc.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id E056B49092 for ; Sat, 28 Feb 2009 11:03:39 -0500 (EST) Received: from listserv.albany.edu (listserv.albany.edu [169.226.1.24]) by listserv.albany.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id n1SG3YWx017258 for ; Sat, 28 Feb 2009 11:03:39 -0500 (EST) Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2009 11:03:35 -0500 From: "University at Albany LISTSERV Server (14.5)" Subject: File: "BEE-L LOG0804C" To: adamf@IBIBLIO.ORG Message-ID: Content-Length: 133537 Lines: 3078 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2008 07:34:37 +0300 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: =?Windows-1252?B?QXJpIFNlcHDkbOQ=?= Subject: Re: Are there tracheal mites in the UK and continental Europe? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="Windows-1252"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit >are your bees resistant or do you treat? If you treat, how do you treat? Here in Finland we detected first tracheal mites quite recently - only about 18 years ago. At that time we could see several beekeepers loosing 50 - 80 % of hives during winter for tracheal mites. About 10 years ago varroa become resistant to fluvalinates,and beekepers changed to use more formic acid in varroa treatments. Tracheal mites almost disappeared for several yeras. Now the trend in varroa treatments is more for thymol + oxalic. And the tracheal has started to show itself again. Biggest problems with italian beees, maybe the others have resistance, but there is no proof by study. Recommended treatment is formic acid in the spring. 25 ml of 65 % acid in a kitchen towel on top of the frames for a hive with one langstroth box. 3 - 4 treatments, with 4 days between treatments. It's the same what we recommend for varroa in the spring if tretament is needed. Ari Seppl Finland **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2008 08:04:15 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dave Cushman Subject: Re: Are there tracheal mites in the UK and continental Europe? In-Reply-To: <20080414.120919.16827.2@webmail07.dca.untd.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Waldemar Acarine mite (tracheal mite) is endemic in Europe, but exists at only a low level. The dark European Bee copes very well with low levels of Acarine. The bees, in general cope with the mites, but sometimes a colony gets highly infested, such colonies are killed in order to remove the susceptibility. Treatment would be foolish as it would actually propagate the problem. Regards & Best 73s, Dave Cushman, G8MZY http://www.dave-cushman.net (http://website.lineone.net/~dave.cushman) Short FallBack M/c, Build 7.01/2.01 **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2008 07:14:33 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Michael Palmer Subject: Re: Tracheal Mites In-Reply-To: <20080414.115909.16827.0@webmail07.dca.untd.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed > What breeding stock to you recommend using... The ones that survived the winter in good shape, with large clusters. Mike **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2008 09:11:18 -0400 Reply-To: bee-quick@bee-quick.com Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: James Fischer Subject: Re: CCD theory? In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I said: >> If you look at the list above, you'll note that the only "new" item >> is the Nosema ceranae. Chris asked: > How do you know it's really new? Have older samples of Nosema/ dead > bees been examined? There is an unproven suspicion here in the UK > that it may have been here, unnoticed, for some time but nobody > thought to check. I put the word "new" in quotes for a reason. Yes, it isn't really new at all. The big factor was that the Nosema apis was exclusively a "springtime issue", and for those of us who bothered to monitor and treat, and more to the point, test AFTER treating to verify treatment efficacy, there were no summer or fall "Nosema problems". Recently, that changed. Is it possible that very few beekeepers looked for Nosema after treating, due to the "known efficacy" of the treatment? Sure, but at least some would not make that sort of rookie error. The USDA labs doing their usual testing/screening of bee samples certainly would not. No way your DEFRA would miss it, either. A "Nosema problem" in mid summer or fall would have raised eyebrows everywhere, so even a single detection would have been worthy of note. Both the USA version of Nosema ceranae and the European version of Nosema ceranae can crop up in summer or fall, While Nosema apis would not. So, even if everyone "had" Nosema ceranae for years prior to the discovery that what we were looking at was often not Nosema apis, is was not detected, Nor was it killing colonies like the much more scary European Nosema ceranae. The Nosema ceranae we see here in the USA is not the rapid and brutal killer of colonies that Europe saw it to be. Is it a different strain? Dunno, but that's been the best guess. No one has verified it, despite all the geneticists stumbling around the "CCD" issue. So, magazine article titles to the contrary, there are no "Nosema Twins". There are at least 3 very different Nosema versions/strains. Maybe more. No, beekeepers can't tell the difference, but we can't tell one virus from another either. We have to classify things based upon symptoms, and lucky for us, the symptoms are significantly different. I should also point out that there appears to be a subtle problem in the methods used to differ between the two types of Nosema, as some labs have been finding an overwhelming majority of Nosema ceranae for a while now with almost no Nosema apis, while others have been finding more Nosema apis. Jerry B. has also mentioned this in passing more than once. I have no idea what the problem is here. It could be that there are regional differences in the mix of types of Nosema within the USA. It is frustrating. 20 years of varroa, and despite all the funding and time, there is no commercial-grade solution to the issue. Nothing even close. The research community has failed miserably in this area. Now this. Here we are in our 2nd season of knowing that CCD cases are out there, but there STILL simply is no funding for CCD work. To add insult to poverty, it is taking months for USDA to "evaluate" three 18-page proposals so that they can award the $4 million they scraped up from other accounts. The delay is completely inexcusable. The proposals were submitted back in February. It is now April. What happened to the CCD funding? The House bill languishes in committee, exactly where it was over a year ago: http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd?bill=h110-1709 Why no action? Because our so-called "friends" who like native pollinators confused the issue by introducing "alternative pollination protection" into a straightforward agriculture/apiculture issue, resulting in a Senate bill with a widely expanded scope from that of the House bill: http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd?bill=s110-1694 So the attempt of the native pollinator camp to double-dip federal funding from both environmental and agriculture sources has done exactly what I said it would do a year ago. Their "Pollinator Protection Racket" has hurt beekeepers and growers badly, and no one has any funding. http://listserv.albany.edu:8080/cgi-bin/wa?A2=ind0706d&L=bee-l&T=0&I=-3& P=2876 http://listserv.albany.edu:8080/cgi-bin/wa?A2=ind0706E&L=BEE-L&P=R2&D=0& I=-3&T=0 (Watch that line-wrap on those URLs) The House and Senate aren't stupid, so the bills sit without any action on either. The Farm Bill looks like our only credible source of funding, and that money will be years in coming. How many of these exotic invasive pathogens, pests, and diseases of bees have to arrive on our shores from far-off places before we all admit that "world trade" only makes money at the expense of our ecosystem and bio-security, and if bio-security was adequate, it would be much less profitable to import so much? And who was dumber - are consumers to blame for taking equity out of their homes to buy flat-screen TVs and personal watercraft when they had lost their decent jobs to outsourcing and were suddenly earning much less? Or was it Asia, for basing their entire economy on selling things to people who no longer had incomes sufficient to afford imported high-end consumer goods, due to the very outsourcing that caused the Asian economy to expand so rapidly? It looks to me like the "World Trade" problem may fix itself before we find out how to effectively manage varroa and CCD. **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2008 09:24:01 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Jerry Wallace Subject: Re: CCD theory? In-Reply-To: <20080414.005822.973.20@webmail13.dca.untd.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >jerry was describing how beebread is made (by fermenting the inside of the >pollen grain via 20+ different yeasts and other microorganisms to break open the >silica shell). It would be interesting to compare the micro flora of a healthy or resistant bee to the bees parasitised by N Ceranae or virus and see the comparative number of good micro flora in both. I myself have experienced a huge reduction in allergic response to mold and pollen allergens since embarking on a program of taking micro flora to rebalance my digestive system with "good" bacteria about two years ago. There is probably a specific bacteria in nature that eats N Ceranae for lunch or inhibits its growth. **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2008 08:34:38 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: Re: Tracheal Mites In-Reply-To: <20080414.120306.16827.1@webmail07.dca.untd.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="Windows-1252"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Do you still use this method or has your breeding/selection process made > it unnecessary? I take samples and if we find high numbers of TM in the Italian bees I treat. Using formic once a year I have not had to treat even the italians. bob **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2008 10:21:49 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Brian Fredericksen Subject: Re: CCD theory? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit On Tue, 15 Apr 2008 09:11:18 -0400, James Fischer wrote: >It is frustrating. 20 years of varroa, and despite all the funding and >time, >there is no commercial-grade solution to the issue. Nothing even close. >The research community has failed miserably in this area. > >Now this. Here we are in our 2nd season of knowing that CCD cases are >out there, but there STILL simply is no funding for CCD work. > based on various reports and news stories, it would appear that this season we could hear of real pollination shortages as spring and summer unfolds. last year we had warnings in the news, my sense if we're going to see real loss of crops in some places, currently the Pacific NW. like other social issues our government is slow to act until a crisis is felt in some region. **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2008 11:16:51 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: kar Subject: formic acid burns more than acetic In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v753) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Don't try this with formic acid. A tiny drop on the skin will burn like crazy, and leave a dark burn scar for 1-2 years (this has happened to me accidentally). Red ant bites contain formic acid. Kurt >> But you can apply 99% acetic acid directly to a finger, like >> I just did, and let it sit there until it evaporates, and >> you will feel no pain at all. **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2008 12:02:05 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bill Truesdell Subject: Re: Are there tracheal mites in the UK and continental Europe? In-Reply-To: <001a01c89eb2$03827df0$0300000a@ari71aa1cf24c5> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Ari Seppl wrote: > About 10 years ago varroa become resistant to fluvalinates,and beekepers > changed to use more formic acid in varroa treatments. Tracheal mites > almost disappeared for several yeras. Now the trend in varroa treatments > is more for thymol + oxalic. Ari, What caused the shift away from Formic? From all I have seen, it is the most effective treatment for a host of problems. Bill Truesdell Bath, Maine **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2008 12:08:19 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bill Truesdell Subject: Formic Acid and CCD In-Reply-To: <000201c89e60$5c626360$0201000a@j> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Have there been any documented CCD symptoms from colonies treated with Formic Acid? The reason for the question is that there seems to be no CCD in Canada and they are strong on the use of Formic Acid treatments. It has been reported that some who use approved Formic Acid treatments exclusively also have no nosema. Might be one of those QED moments. You get rid of mites, nosema, and, with that, low virus loads and healthy bees. Plus, it is an approved treatment. Bill Truesdell Bath, Maine **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2008 11:25:03 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: Re: CCD theory? In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > based on various reports and news stories, it would appear that this > season we could hear of real > pollination shortages as spring and summer unfolds. I spoke with California yesterday and it seems a shortage of packages and queens could be developing. However the queen and package producer I spoke with said he shook packages a month ago and moved those hives from almonds to the coast and he said those bees are back up to 10-12 frames of bees and ready to shake again. So far his bees look great! he normally would not have returned to even think about shaking bees from those hives so soon but the demand for bees and queens grows each day. He has already pulled bees from over 10,000 hives for packages. Luck might be on the beekeepers side this year if package producers can shake bees again this soon. bob **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2008 13:18:49 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Chris Slade Subject: Re: Are there tracheal mites in the UK and continental Europe? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 15/04/2008 03:58:29 GMT Standard Time, waldig@NETZERO.NET writes: The above questions is for the folks in Europe. If you folks have tracheal mites, are your bees resistant or do you treat? If you treat, how do you treat? I have seen them only a couple of times when they were exhibited as curiosities. Italian bees used to be notorious for susceptibility to them but they have gone out of fashion. Chris **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2008 20:19:35 +0300 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: =?Windows-1252?B?QXJpIFNlcHDkbOQ=?= Subject: Re: Are there tracheal mites in the UK and continental Europe? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="Windows-1252"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit > What caused the shift away from Formic? From all I have seen, it is the > most effective treatment for a host of > problems. > Beekeepers shifted to thymol and oxalic because formic is more diffucult to use. We have ready made formic acid gel packets for sale, but still they are a bit more work. Also some ( mostly who overdosed) reported problems with queens. I had a 7 year comparison study with about 150 hives ( 50 - 70 of them with formic) and in it we could not see more queen problems. Also the danger for the applicator is more with formic. At the moment we are working for a pre - cut cloth that woud absorb a certain amount of acid. This would make applicaion safer and easier. Just pre soaked pads in the yard and they are put to place with a barbeque tongs. Safe and fast. Ari Seppl **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2008 14:20:38 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Brian Carroll Subject: bees and pesticides MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline With all of this discussion about bees and pesticides, I thought I would post the following pictures of Bee Brand insecticide which I found at the flea market this weekend! http://www.bangorblockwatch.org/bottle.jpg http://www.bangorblockwatch.org/logo.jpg Enjoy Brian Carroll **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2008 15:31:37 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: =?windows-1252?Q?Peter_Dight?= Subject: Re: Questions and Comments Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit PB Wrote It is very difficult to pin down cause and effect in such cases as these. Almost everyone thinks the honey bee population is "immune compromised" on the whole. Just what caused that is in dispute, but even so, given a weakened immunity the bees could be much more susceptible to just about any pathogen. But then, the final knockout is not the "cause" but the agent of final demise. OK then, what was the agent of final demise in these "wave across yard" losses? The wave effect suggests something that travels from one hive to the next. To be discernable as a wave it is unlikely to a wind born, which to my mind leaves bees drifting. Whatever the vector of their demise if it is carried by drifters it should be detectable, either parasite or disease? All the colonies will share the symptoms of the final agent, even if losses elsewhere, that are attributed to CCD, do not share those symptoms! How big are the holding apiaries where these 'waves' have been noticed and over what time scale does the wave advance? Peter Cambridge UK **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2008 15:34:18 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Brian Fredericksen Subject: Re: Formic Acid and CCD Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I received more reports today that the Wis/Mi region seems really hard hit with presumably nosema, some confirmed others speculated but really high losses at 50-100% Have not heard much from our Northern Friends in Canada yet. What's interesting to me is Mn had a dry winter while east of here it was a record setter and wet. Could wet conditions turn on the nosema infection? Probably snow on the ground yet in much of Canada and too early to get a trend? **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2008 16:02:38 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: =?windows-1252?Q?Steve_Noble?= Subject: Tracheal mites, varroa and formic acid Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Ari Seppala writes: Beekeepers shifted to thymol and oxalic because formic is more diffucult to use. We have ready made formic acid gel packets for sale, but still they are a bit more work. I havent used oxalic acid or thymol yet. In my experience with Formic acid to get good results you do have to take several things into consideration and deal with them accordingly. Temperature and relative humidity are important factors as everyone here probably knows. The colony population is another factor that can affect the effectiveness with which the fumes are circulated throughout the hive. Too few bees results in poor circulation. I imagine an over crowded hive can have the same problem. Formic acid fumes are heavier than air so the fumes can easily escape out the entrance or cracks between the bottom box and bottom board and not be circulated back up to the top. To avoid this I tape the cracks and I put a block in front of and across the entrance that is a little higher than the entrance but has a three or four inch wide quarter inch deep notch in the side that faces the entrance so the bees have to go out the entrance and up through the notch. This acts as a dam for the fumes. Air can still be pulled in for circulation, bees can still come and go, but the fume layer at the bottom stays at least enough to get sufficient concentration to kill mites. A spacer has to go between the top box and the inner cover with small slats under the presoaked pads to keep them a quarter inch up off the frames. I realize this is probably too much work for anyone with very many hives, but it, especially the taping and the dam, does seem to make a significant difference in the mite drop I get. I got a lot of this info off of Bill Ruzickas MiteGone web site. I highly recommend anyone thinking about using Formic Acid consult that site. http://www.mitegone.com/ Most recently Ive been using the MiteAway presoaked pads as described above. It saves me having to buy and store my own formic acid and I have less exposure due to dipping dry pads into a tub of acid. It is considerably more expensive than MiteGone pads or paper towels or shop rags or what ever though. For those of us who are still dependent on treating for mites, I have always heard (mainly on this list) that using formic or Thymol in the spring and oxalic in the fall is an effective way to go. The fact that formic kills two mites with one stone is definitely a factor that I consider. Now I am wondering if there is any evidence that formic acid kills Nosema spores. Seems like if acetic acid works so would formic acid. Anyone know? Steve Noble **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2008 21:29:41 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Andrew Johnston Subject: Ozone Generatos/Nosema MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thanks to all who responded to my question. Back in the 60s and 70s when I was being taught my beekeeping we used to take sample to test for nosema and accarine every autumn and treat if necessary. Fumidil for nosema in winter feed, and Folbex (now banned)for accarine. Here in the UK we would send a sample of at least 30 bees to the County Bee Instuctor,who was retained by the Education Authority (Now a post long gone).Stacks of empty supers were treated with 80% acetic acid, 4oz of acid on a pad for each box in the stack, no matter how well the boxes were sealed every one complained about the smell! Eventualy I got my own microscopes and learnt to do my own tests. During the late 80s /early 90s nosema became harder to find and accarine almost completely dissapeared (mainly I think because my bees were dark), due to work constraints I stopped testing.Winter losses were minimal 2-3% and spring dwindling a thing of the past. Untill last year 06-07 when losses were up to 20% and more in a few cases. So this spring after the anouncement by our National Bee Unit that Nosema ceranae had been found, I got the microscopes out again and so far I have found nosema in about 30% of each apiary, most being light to moderate, about 5% heavy infestation(my interpretation of the amount of spores in a single view at 600 times) I was thinking that if I have to start sterilizing supers again it might be easier to put them in a sealed room with a generator for a month, and that should not cause the metal runners, frame nails etc to rot. But only if I knew it worked. Next question. this thing about yeasts fermenting pollen, where does this ake place? My understanding of pollen digestion is that it takes place in the ventriculus, the epithelial cells of the ventriculus wall produce the enzyme 'protease' that disolves the pores on the pollen grain enabling the protein to be digested. Leaving an empty husk and some fat globules. The epithelial cells of the ventriculus is the site of invasion by nosema, causing the epithelial cells to die early, unable to digest protein the workers are unable to feed brood and their lives are shortened, hence spring dwindling. This spring my winter losses are about 7% but many colonies are small, still only 4-6 combs. Regards Andrew Johnston **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2008 17:42:06 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Jerry Bromenshenk Subject: Re: Formic Acid and CCD MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Yes, we treated colonies with Formic and they collapsed. As per NO CCD in Canada - be very careful of how you interpret that. The official stance is that there are no verified cases of CCD in Canada - one could say the same for the U.S. since all we have are symptoms of a disorder, not identified cause. We've lots of surveys from Canadian beekeeper in B.C. and Ontario who report a symptoms that fit CCD. Jerry **************It's Tax Time! Get tips, forms and advice on AOL Money & Finance. (http://money.aol.com/tax?NCID=aolcmp00300000002850) **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2008 18:20:50 -0700 Reply-To: k.kellison@earthlink.net Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Kathy Kellison Subject: no funding for CCD MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Brian , you wrote: "still simply no funding for CCD", There would be if the farm bill would get passed! Sustained research monies in the pollinator provisions for years 2008 through 2012 including ear mark just for CCD... **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2008 21:38:02 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "=?windows-1252?Q?J._Waggle?=" Subject: An Etymological Dictionarie of Historic Beekeeping Terms Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hello All, First, a big thanks to all who responded in the must have 17th and 18 Century Bee Books thread! The info was very helpful! I predict this thread might sink like a Led Zepplen, as most folks aren't into this sort of stuff, but here goes,,, ;) Resurrecting a shelved project,,, Im assembling An Etymological Dictionarie of Historic Beekeeping Terms, with particular attention to obscure terms not commonly used today. For instance: An etymology dictionary would contain the definitions, plus the language of origin, and earliest known date for word use. So I am seeking resources to help me with the project if anyone should happen to know of a etymology resource, old bee books &c, that might help researching obscure beekeeping terminology, I would greatly appreciate any help. So looking at a few definitions, the word apiary in an etymology dictionary would be: apiary - a place where bees are kept; especially : a collection of hives or colonies of bees kept for their honey. Etymology: Latin apiarium, from apis bee, neut. of apiarius "of bees," from apis "bee," Date: 1654 Many of the entomologies for beekeeping terms can be found in online dictionaries, but you will not find in these dictionaries obscure terms such as bee bole, driving bees, bee lining and bee gum. So they must be researched and verified, in order to craft a correct definition, entomology and first use. So in researching the definition and entomology for bee gum, it develops into an informative definition depicting its source of origin in beekeeping history: bee gum - A beehive located in a hollow tree or log. Etymology: Chiefly in Southern U.S. many log hives especially in the southern states, were made from black gum (Nyssa sylvatica), because its heartwood decays first, leaving the trunk hollow. Such hives were called gums, and this word came into general use for any hive. Gums were mentioned twice in Georgia in the mid-1700s: Harrod got a bee gum which was taken down river in a canoe, and Governor Selby gave a cow and a calf for a gum (Oertel, 1976) Date: mid 18 century Many online dictionaries include Etymology for the word skep. But in researching this word I find an obscure variance in spelling, and we need to account for this fact in our definition. skep - a domed hive made of twisted straw Etymology: Middle English skeppe basket, beehive, from Old English sceppe basket, from Old Norse skeppa bushel; akin to Old High German sceffil bushel, scaf tub. In USA, during the 19 century till about 1905, Chiefly in Pennsylvania was written as skap Date: 15th century It would be neat to find out where this variation of scap originated, and why, so this is a priority search for me. Amongst obscure terms, driving bees is a term which perhaps most beekeepers today have no idea what it means. I am still in the process of researching this term, looking at England and perhaps early Spain for first use, we have the beginnings of the definition driving bees: driving bees - the driving of bees from one skep to another for the purpose of taking honey without killing the bees, by inverting the hive and driving the bees into an empty skep placed above it, by beating rhythmically on the sides of the inverted hive with a stick or stone Some beekeepers using this method made forced swarms by inverting a hive and driving bees into an empty hive placed above it until two thirds of them, including the queen, had gone up. Etymology: Earliest reference to driving in England is probably that in Thomas Tussers beekeeping instructions in verse, printed in 1557 Any assistance from beekeepers in Europe for origin and first use of driving bees would be greatly appreciated. Im also looking for origin and first use of the word bee lining. Research so far suggests it originated in America and as of now, I have not found old records of beelining in Europe. I found an account of beelinging in the book printed in 1793 in England titled Travels in the interior inhabited parts of North America, In the years 1791 and 1792. It gives an account of a method of "finding out bees in the woods" in New England. I am also seeking first use for the trem 'bee bole' and origin of word. Any help or tips, greatly appreciated! Can send to naturabee@yahoo.com Thanks! Best Wishes, Joe Waggle Pennsylvania THE SWARM: "Up mounts the chief, and, to the cheated eye, Ten thousand shuttles dart along the sky ; As swift through aether rise the rushing swarms, Gay dancing to the beam their sunbright forms ; And each thin form, still lingering on the sight, Trails as it shoots, a line of silver light. High poised on buoyant wing, the thoughtful queen, In gaze attentive, views the varied scene, And soon her far-fetched ken discerns below; The light laburnam lift her polished brow, Wave her green leafy ringlets o'er the glade. Swift as the falcon's sweep, the monarch bends Her flight abrupt; the following host descends Round the fine twig, like clustered grapes they close In thickening wreaths, and court a short repose." -EVANS http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/HistoricalHoneybeeArticles/ **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2008 20:12:43 GMT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "waldig@netzero.net" Subject: Re: Are there tracheal mites in the UK and continental Europe? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit >>This would make applicaion safer and easier. Just pre soaked pads in the yard and they are put to place with a barbeque tongs. Safe and fast. Ari, What kind of bees do you keep in Finland? Waldemar **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2008 04:07:29 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: C Hooper Subject: Dispute Over Labeling of 'Active' Manuka Honey Heats Up MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII Dispute Over Labeling of 'Active' Manuka Honey Heats Up Legal Debate Takes Over Honey Research NZPA (New Zealand) 4/16/2008 http://apitherapy.blogspot.com/2008/04/dispute-over-labeling-of-active-manuka.html Years of research and investment by apiarists into branding "active" manuka honey have been knee-capped by a huge row in the industry over whether to persist with the "UMF" label for the medical honeys... **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2008 09:33:47 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Aaron Morris Subject: FW: [BEE-L] Dead Bee Trap MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable This message was originally submitted by edw4@MINDSPRING.COM to the = BEE-L list at LISTSERV.ALBANY.EDU. It was edited to remove quotes of previously = posted material. ________________________________ From: John Edwards [mailto:edw4@mindspring.com] Sent: Tue 2008.04.15 22:42 To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Cc: gdhoff@aol.com Subject: Re: [BEE-L] Dead Bee Trap Good design ideas, Trevor. Also contact the USDA Bee Lab in Tucson, Arizona for design specifics of the Todd dead bee trap, tested and published in the 1950s-60s by Frank Todd, S.E. McGregor, and many others. It was used extensively to verify insecticide kills in many field and pollination studies. It is made entirely of galvanized metal sheeting, with a double wire screen to relieve the bee of her dead companion on flying through it, and metal louvers covering a box at the bottom to prevent the bees from retrieving the dead. I will copy this message to Gloria Hoffman, local chief-in-charge. - John Edwards, Vancouver, WA, USA **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2008 09:29:35 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Mike Rowbottom Subject: Acetic Acid Attacks Concrete MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear all In with the safety issues about the use of acetic acid please do not forget that it readily attacks concrete. If 80% acetic acid is left spilt on a concrete floor then the damage to the floor can be significant Regards Mike Rowbottom HARROGATE North Yorkshire UK **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2008 20:19:08 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: randy oliver Subject: Re: CCD theory? In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline > > I spoke with California yesterday and it seems a shortage of packages and > queens could be developing. Hi Bob, yes, I'm hearing that packages and queens are currently sold out. Randy **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2008 18:33:55 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Chris Slade Subject: Re: formic acid burns more than acetic MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 15/04/2008 17:08:49 GMT Standard Time, allerslev@GMAIL.COM writes: Don't try this with formic acid. A tiny drop on the skin will burn like crazy, I have seen photographs of very extensive and horrible burns from Formic. Also eyeballs pitted from Thymol. Chris **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2008 19:05:37 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Chris Slade Subject: Re: Questions and Comments MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 16/04/2008 01:30:05 GMT Standard Time, pdight@AOL.COM writes: How big are the holding apiaries where these 'waves' have been noticed and over what time scale does the wave advance? And in what pattern and proximity are they set? Chris **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2008 19:48:40 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Chris Slade Subject: Re: An Etymological Dictionarie of Historic Beekeeping Terms MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 16/04/2008 02:58:30 GMT Standard Time, naturebee@YAHOO.COM writes: driving bees - the driving of bees from one skep to another for the purpose of taking honey without killing the bees, by inverting the hive and driving the bees into an empty skep placed above it, by beating rhythmically on the sides of the inverted hive with a stick or stone I was taught (and have since used effectively) that the beating is done with the hands on the side of the skep or box at a pace of about a heartbeat (Dave Cushman will say what that is in metric) with the hands not arriving at opposite sides of the skep simultaneously, thus setting up a vibration or jarring of the skep with the bees. You should also include in your dictionary 'driving irons' which would have been made by the local blacksmith. They come in sets of three. Two are iron rods about 9" to a foot long with parallel spikes about 3" long at each end. These prop open the 'mouth' of the arrangement of skep over inverted skep, while the third iron is a simple skewer that secured the closed end around which a cloth is wrapped to make a bridge up which the driven bees may climb. Chris **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2008 04:14:16 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: C Hooper Subject: Medicinal Honey Expert Wades Into Debate Over 'UMF' Labeling MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII Medicinal Honey Expert Wades Into Debate Over 'UMF' Labeling Re: The Article on Yahoo News Which was Reported on Apitherapy News "Legal Debate Takes Over Honey Research" http://apitherapy.blogspot.com/2008/04/medicinal-honey-expert-wades-into.html [Editor's Note: Responses from those holding opposing views are welcome. Send to: editor@apitherapynews.com] There is a factually incorrect statement in the information regarding Manuka Health: In the statement "A Te Awamutu company, Manuka Health NZ Ltd, has funded German research which showed a natural compound, methylglyoxal, is responsible for manuka honey's unique antibacterial properties." The statement about the company funding the research is incorrect... **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2008 11:59:00 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: =?UTF-8?Q?Peter_Borst?= Subject: Re: An Etymological Dictionarie of Historic Beekeeping Terms Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi Another term that I would be curious about is "eke". Was it a noun or a verb first? pb **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2008 14:51:02 -0700 Reply-To: naturebee@yahoo.com Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "J. Waggle" Subject: Re: An Etymological Dictionarie of Historic Beekeeping Terms In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit --- On Wed, 4/16/08, Chris Slade wrote: > You should also include in your dictionary 'driving > irons'... Thanks Chris! Tnanks for responding! I searched out driving irons and found a good set of golf clubs on ebay! But I also found a pic of skep driving irons, and an old smoker on this site: http://homepage.mac.com/mreddygbr/skepFAQ/ Various tools here, I have no idea what some are: http://homepage.mac.com/mreddygbr/skepFAQ/todo.html Sometimes, one good tip can provide leads that lead to other leads, so your trem, driving irons will be very helpful, in future searches also. Best Wishes Joe W Pennsylvania “The earlier settlers and the bee were hand in hand, and the former plundered the latter and the latter stung the former” Warren Pennsylvania, 1890 http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/HistoricalHoneybeeArticles ____________________________________________________________________________________ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2008 08:04:09 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dave Cushman Subject: Re: An Etymological Dictionarie of Historic Beekeeping Terms In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Peter > Another term that I would be curious about is "eke". Was it a noun or a verb > first? I do not know which came first but I suspect the verb did, There is also 'nadir' which was straw ring that went under a skep to increase it's volume. Regards & Best 73s, Dave Cushman, G8MZY http://www.dave-cushman.net (http://website.lineone.net/~dave.cushman) Short FallBack M/c, Build 7.01/2.01 **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2008 09:25:27 +0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Anthony Norman Morgan Subject: SV: [BEE-L] An Etymological Dictionarie of Historic Beekeeping Terms In-Reply-To: A MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Peter Borst wrote:- Another term that I would be curious about is "eke". Was it a noun or a verb first? See: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/eke Most definitions here are for the verb but near the bottom there is a noun (without date) "Shipbuilding: A lengthening or filling piece to make good a deficiency in length." One can see where the beekeeping term *might* have come from! I'm not knowledgeable enough in the ancient Scandinavian languages but the modern (well used) equivalent of the verb "eke" in norwegian is "ke" (if the character doesn't reproduce properly for you it is an o with a / through it), which would seem to indicate a common root from way back. If one then thinks vikings=wooden ships then the existence of a noun seems probable. The term viking is still in common use and doesn't mean quite what most people think - if you live in a place whose name ends in -vik meaning a bay or creek then you are a -viking eg. place = Hommelvik, inhabitant = Hommelviking. Place names ending in vik are very common in the norwegian fjords. Cheers Tony in Norway **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2008 10:28:51 +0100 Reply-To: pencaemawr@f2s.com Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: John Burgess Subject: Re: An Etymological Dictionarie of Historic Beekeeping Terms In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Peter Borst wrote: > Hi > > Another term that I would be curious about is "eke". Was it a noun or a verb > first? > And another term is "tanging", the process of persuading a swarm to come to ground by e.g. beating a frypan with a ladle! John B **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2008 05:43:15 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: C Hooper Subject: Video: Local Honey Recommended for Allergies MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII Video: Local Honey Recommended for Allergies A Teaspoon of Honey a Day Keeps the Doctor Away? Remedy Could Help Allergies By Jonathan Carlson, News Channel 7 (USA), 4/15/2008 http://apitherapy.blogspot.com/2008/04/video-local-honey-recommended-for.html We've got a sweet remedy for the sniffling you've been doing this spring. What if we told you, opening a jar of honey could greatly reduce allergy symptoms... **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2008 05:43:42 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: C Hooper Subject: Canadian Apitherapy Conference Dec. 11-13 in Niagara Falls MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII Canadian Apitherapy Conference Dec. 11-13 in Niagara Falls http://apitherapy.blogspot.com/2008/04/canadian-apitherapy-conference-dec-11.html A three-day apitherapy conference and course will be held December 11-13, 2008, in Niagara Falls, Canada... **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2008 09:31:46 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Ralph Harrison Subject: Farley Mowat MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The following is the opening paragraph of Farley Mowat's book "The Boat Who Wouldn't Float". Reading it brought a smile to my face and I thought that any beekeeper would enjoy it. " I have a ingrained fear of auctions dating back to the third year of my life. In that year my father attended an auction as a means of passing an aimless afternoon, and he came away from it the bewildered possessor of thirty hives of bees and all the paraphernalia of an apiarist. Unable to rid himself of the purchase he became, perforce, a beekeeper, and for the next two years I lived almost exclusively on a diet of soda biscuits and honey. The gods smiled on us and all of the bees died of something called foul brood, enabling us to return to some semblance of a normal life." **************Need a new ride? Check out the largest site for U.S. used car listings at AOL Autos. (http://autos.aol.com/used?NCID=aolcmp00300000002851) **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2008 15:39:07 -0700 Reply-To: naturebee@yahoo.com Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "J. Waggle" Subject: Re: An Etymological Dictionarie of Historic Beekeeping Terms In-Reply-To: <480847E9.1070701@lineone.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Peter Borst wrote: > Another term that I would be curious about is "eke". Was it a noun or a verb > first? > Hello Peter, Thanks for responding! Responses motivate me to research, and that is how I learn best. The word was used by c.1200, meaning to ‘to lengthen, or extend’ I checked some bee books on the subject, and I have enough to complete the definition for eke: eke - “a simple hoop of materials similar to the hive, fitting the bottom edge exactly: this is put into the bee-house, and the hive to be enlarged is placed upon it. This enables the waiting bees to go to work, and thus swarming is retarded. But as it is a temporary enlargement, the reason which induced the necessity of enlarging the apartment, is increased when the eke is full.” (The Management of Bees, Pg 61, Samuel Bagster 1834) “Ekes must have been used in England by 1593 when Southerne’s book said that they should be removed at the end of the year.” (The World History of Beekeeping and Honey Hunting, Pg 390, Eva Crane, 1999) “It was called a ring or riser, or an imp or eke” (The World History of Beekeeping and Honey Hunting, Pg 389, Eva Crane, 1999) eke and imp meaning ‘to lengthen, or extend’ Etymology: north England and E. Midlands var. of echen from O.E. ecan, eacan, eacian meaning addition, reinforcement, to increase. c. 1200 Date: in beekeeping, at least by 1593 Best Wishes, Joe Waggle http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/HistoricalHoneybeeArticles ____________________________________________________________________________________ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2008 15:59:33 -0700 Reply-To: naturebee@yahoo.com Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "J. Waggle" Subject: Re: An Etymological Dictionarie of Historic Beekeeping Terms In-Reply-To: <480847E9.1070701@lineone.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Dave Cushman wrote: > There is also 'nadir' which was straw ring that > went under a skep to > increase it's volume. Hi Dave, Thanks for responding! That’s a great addition to the dictionary! I checked in The Beekeepers Manual, and Taylor defines it somewhat differently. Here are some other terms that Taylor defines. I'm attempting to locate Etymologies for the terms. Nadir - an empty box or hive, pushed beneath a full one, is denominated a Nadir. (The Beekeepers Manual, Pg, 24, Henry Taylor 1860) storifying - the bees, when pressed for room, will extend their operations almost in any direction, whether the accommodation is given above (which is termed storifying), at the bottom (nadiring), or collaterally. (The Beekeepers Manual, Pg, 24, Henry Taylor 1860) duplet - a second hive, box, or glass, placed over the stock, is termed a duplet, or more commonly a super. (The Beekeepers Manual, Pg, 24, Henry Taylor 1860) eke - A still smaller addition to a common hive consists merely of a few bands of straw, on which it is raised temporarily, and this constitutes an eke. (The Beekeepers Manual, Pg, 25, Henry Taylor 1860) tripet - a productive season sometimes admits of a second super (usually introduced between the first and the stock), called in such case a triplet. (The Beekeepers Manual, Pg, 24, Henry Taylor 1860) Best Wishes, Joe Waggle http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/HistoricalHoneybeeArticles ____________________________________________________________________________________ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2008 20:16:58 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Michael Palmer Subject: Re: Farley Mowat In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed At 09:31 AM 4/18/2008, you wrote: >The following is the opening paragraph of Farley Mowat's book "The Boat Who >Wouldn't Float".... Farley Mowat. Haven't heard that name in awhile. Was in a place once with my dad...Mowat's Landing, somewhere in Ontario. My dad was convinced that was named after Mowat's family. I wasn't so convinced. Mowat wrote other books, too, which I thoroughly enjoyed. Two come to mind...although my puny mind can only remember one title. "People of the deer" is about his stay with the people of the north as he tries to discover what happened to the great caribou herds. The province wants to blame the wolves, while he proves otherwise. His other about a summer with the wolves, was made into a film. Anybody know...Was Mowat's Landing named after Farley Mowat's family? **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2008 20:48:10 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: John Edwards Subject: Re: Video: Local Honey Recommended for Allergies Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_Part_1133_21822426.1208569690624" ------=_Part_1133_21822426.1208569690624 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit These frequent Medibee messages seem to be advertising, rather than conversation. - John On Fri Apr 18 07:43:15 CDT 2008, C Hooper wrote: > What if we told you, opening a jar of honey could greatly reduce > allergy symptoms... **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ------=_Part_1133_21822426.1208569690624-- ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2008 04:38:56 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: Re: Nationwide recall of bee feed pollen MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="utf-8"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello All, The FDA has issued a recall of all "bee feed pollen" from China sold in the U.S.. Glorybee foods has sent out batch numbers and a red tag for returning unused pollen for a refund plus return shipping. If you have purchased "bee feed' pollen over the last few years you should have by now received a recall notice. Aphis found out at the national convention China bee *FEED* pollen was being brought in. Could China bee the source of some of our problems as the *bee feed pollen*started coming in about the time of our problems? If the pollen was properly irradiated I would not think so (but who is checking?) . I still wonder if the paint in China honey drums has lead in it? Aphis said at the national convention pollen brought in for bee feed was never approved by Aphis and Aphis had stopped two container loads. Seems Aphis is even taking stronger measures by forcing a recall. While listening to the import discussion CD from the national convention ( Aphis speaker) I heard a queen breeder admit to bringing in semen from Europe. Could not virus be brought in with semen? The next speaker was from Aphis and he said bringing in semen needed Aphis approval. bob **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2008 04:09:22 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: C Hooper Subject: Video: Whatever Happened to...the Killer Bees? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII Note: Apitherapy News postings are for educational purposes only. I receive no commercial gain of any sort. Video: Whatever Happened to...the Killer Bees? http://apitherapy.blogspot.com/2008/04/video-whatever-happened-tothe-killer.html About 15 years ago, there were frightening warnings about Africanized Bees that might chase you down and sting you to death. But today, you don't hear too much about them. Paul Magers reports. **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2008 08:54:23 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: =?UTF-8?Q?Peter_Borst?= Subject: Re: An Etymological Dictionarie of Historic Beekeeping Terms Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Dave Cushman wrote: >I do not know which came first but I suspect the verb did According to OED, the verb came first Eke, verb To increase, add to, lengthen. c1200 The holie man fasted for to eken his holinesse. 1599 As they say, Every thing Eiketh. 1755 Without eking or curtailing God's precious truth. 1829 The moaning brook, that ekes its weary speed. Eke, noun A short straw or wooden cylinder on which a beehive is placed to increase its capacity. 1857 Underlay. Now called ekes; additional bands of straw placed beneath the hive. **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2008 10:24:22 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: DAVID ADAMS Subject: Re: possible lead in chinese honey drums In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit (but who is checking?) . I still wonder if the paint in China honey drums has lead in it? Bob after seeing you ask that question in a few of your posts, i said to my self,self why don't you ask that question yourself? I think it is a real question that should be answered. I logged on the usda web site ,sent that question to them ,then sent an email directly to the agsec@usda.gov and forwarded a copy to a local reporter I have ties with. I would think that if alot of us in the USA on this list would log onto the USDA site and ask that same question,maybe it could get answered, maybe **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2008 13:31:39 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Brian Fredericksen Subject: Farm bill - another nail in the coffin? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Farm bill complicates plight of honeybees http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/04/18/MNBR107C59.DTL Excerpt "On Capitol Hill, House and Senate negotiators are hammering out final details on a farm bill that will supercharge the industrialized crop production that scientists believe weakens vital pollinators. To do that, they are looking to trim existing farm conservation programs known to help pollinators survive. "We don't really know what all problems are with honeybees," said Judith Redmond, a partner at Full Belly Farm, an organic produce grower in the Capay Valley (Yolo County) north of San Francisco that has hosted University of California bee researchers. "But what we do know ... is there are 4,000 species of native pollinators. They are very efficient at pollinating specific crops. They need habitat. Very clearly from our farm experience and the research done on our farm, the habitats that we've installed here have made a difference to the pollinator population." Instead of expanding these efforts, Congress is adding a new program costing as much as $5 billion that will almost certainly intensify the push to plow fragile prairie land in Montana and the Dakotas where beekeepers rest their bees when California's nut and fruit crops are not in bloom. Billions for farmers Taxpayers have invested billions of dollars paying farmers to protect this land under 10- and 15- year contracts, but high grain prices, driven in part by federal ethanol subsidies, have created pressure to allow farmers to break those contracts without penalty to grow more grain." **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2008 16:51:25 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: =?windows-1252?Q?Ted_Hancock?= Subject: Re: Nationwide recall of bee feed pollen Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit On Sat, 19 Apr 2008 04:38:56 -0500, Bob Harrison wrote: > >While listening to the import discussion CD from the national convention ( >Aphis speaker) I heard a queen breeder admit to bringing in semen from >Europe. Could not virus be brought in with semen? The next speaker was from >Aphis and he said bringing in semen needed Aphis approval. > Hi Bob, A few weeks you wrote: "The queens Dave is getting are from Terry Brown ( different Australian package producer than used last year and the producer I have followed from the first import). Terry brown has constantly been importing the best queens from around the world to improve his stock. Buckfast queens and varroa tolerant queens from Italy." By this statement I understood you to mean it is a good thing to have Australian producers importing genetic material from Europe to improve their stock. But now you say that importing semen into the U.S. from Europe may be problematic. How is it safe to have the genetic material arrive via Australia rather than the direct route? And do you know what Australian protocols are in place with regard to the importation of queens from Europe? (the queens must be in Bic pens not fountain pens?) Ted > >**************************************************** >* General Information About BEE-L is available at: * >* http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * >**************************************************** >========================================================================= **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2008 18:10:43 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "Peter L. Borst" Subject: The Australian Birds and Bees MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline The post entry animal quarantine program (PEAQ) comprises the management and operation of government facilities for the quarantine of imported animals after they have arrived in Australia. The stations are used for quarantine isolation and testing of imported animals from a variety of countries, thus contributing to the importation process. Their basic function is to protect against the entry of animal pests and diseases present in the country of origin that may not be detectable at the time of the animal's arrival. PEAQ operates on a full cost recovered basis, with the exception of a $295,000 subsidy provided to assist in combating the smuggling of live birds and bees. This subsidy is used to substantially reduce the fees associated with the importation of live birds and fertile hatching eggs and queen bees. Program management, including technical support is provided by the program manager in Canberra. Within this framework, each manager runs his station in a way which achieves the following objectives:- Fees for queen bee importers Eastern Creek Quarantine Station. There are two options that may be used. They are both based on a fee for the first two months. A monthly fee will apply thereafter. All fees are payable in advance of arrival and grafting. Fee Option 1 - AQIS provides the nucleus box and all services (Quarantine Services Fees Determinations 2001, Determination 3, Schedule D, Item (fb)) For a consignment of up to 6 bees - $2000 For a consignment of up to 9 bees - $2600 For a consignment of up to 12 bees - $3200 Fee Option 2 - Importer provides the nucleus box, AQIS provides all other services. The importer has the option of providing the nucleus colony. (Quarantine Services Fees Determinations 2001, Determination 3, Schedule D, Item (fa)) For a consignment of up to 6 bees - $1400 For a consignment of up to 9 bees - $1900 For a consignment of up to 12 bees - $2400 The nucleus hive box will be incinerated by AQIS after use at the quarantine facility. A monthly fee will consist of $160 per consignment for every month after the initial 2 months The importation of new genetic breeding stock is a matter of grave concern for the honeybee industry. The quarantine facility at Eastern Creek NSW has been sold and will cease to provide an importation service for honeybee genetic breeding stock after 2010. This will reduce Australia's ability to produce good quality queen bees for export and also impact on our honey industry as poor genetic stock create numerous problems, such as low honey production and poor disease resistance. **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2008 18:15:41 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "Peter L. Borst" Subject: Re: The Australian Birds and Bees MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline The Australian Quarantine and Inspection Service says bees are sometimes imported illegally by post or with air passengers. In one case, sniffer dogs found a passenger with six queen bees hidden in a fountain pen. -- Peter L. Borst Danby, NY USA 42.35, -76.50 http://picasaweb.google.com/peterlborst **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2008 19:34:58 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Brian Fredericksen Subject: Re: Nationwide recall of bee feed pollen Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit i wonder if they can just relabel it for human consumption. glorybee and drapers in Nebraska routinely sell what I've been told is chinese or asian bee pollen for around $3.00 -$3.50 a pound in bulk 100# lots. the stuff is easy to identify - its got the consistency, appearance and flavor of sawdust with little moisture content, yuck. http://www.glorybeefoods.com/gbf/Shop_ProductDetail.cfm? PC=21&PSC=&P=11383&Product_Name=pollen,%20bee%20granules,%20wildflow&Token=74.33.29. 203:{ts_2008-04-19_16:28:29}-864257 http://www.glorybeefoods.com/gbf/Shop_ProductDetail.cfm? PC=21&PSC=&P=20649&Product_Name=pollen,%20bee%20powder,%20tea%20bee&Token=74.33.29 .203:{ts_2008-04-19_16:28:29}-864257 i see this material being sold at various health and natural food stores. **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2008 22:57:53 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: Re: Nationwide recall of bee feed pollen In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="Windows-1252"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello Ted & All, Ted asks some excellent questions. > > By this statement I understood you to mean it is a good thing to have > Australian producers importing genetic material from Europe to improve > their stock. When I did the first Australian import article I said little about the Australian inspection service. In the second article in 2005 i went into great detail about the safe gaurds in place. I have pushed for a similar system put in place in the U.S. but seemed to fall on deaf ears. The Austrailan system is top of the line. Simply importing semen takes many risks however the U.S. has seen to take those risks before. But now you say that importing semen into the U.S. from > Europe may be problematic. Colin from Aphis heard about a illegal semen import and was not happy. I can post the CD number from the National convention if you would like to hear the conversation for yourself. I really have no serious problem with said queen breeder and her semen import except she seems to think bringing in semen only is without risk. The Australian import method is many times safer. How is it safe to have the genetic material > arrive via Australia rather than the direct route? Well for one the method is legal (unlike what our queen breeder did). I will explain the Australian queen import method in a minute if you do not have easy acess to my articles. And do you know what > Australian protocols are in place with regard to the importation of queens > from Europe? The first step is to get the Australian inspection service to agree to the import. Usually they want a few sample specimens to dissect. Then you anti up the cost which runs 4-5 thousand for *each* queen. The queen is sent to the Australian inspection service and placed in a quarantine area. Impossible to escape. The queen is introduced into a nuc. When the queen is laying the beekeeper is allowed to go into the cage and graft. The inspection service also checks the eggs and larva. Only larva (if ok) are allowed to leave with the beekeeper. After the grafting is done the queen is killed and dissected and checked. All the bees are killed and the area disinfected and I believe the equipment burned. A very risky part and one Australian queen breeders are not crazy about is that if at any time the bees kill the new queen the import is over and the money is forfeited. has happened. U.S. unchecked semen is brought in or Russian queens are held on a island for a period of time and then moved live onto the mainland. You ask excellent questions Ted! The same questions I asked when researching for my articles. Off to bed now as I have been up and working since 4 AM. I am going into another state early tomorrow pulling a trailer. The first truck I hooked up had no trailer lights. Grabbed another truck and all trailer lights flashed when signals on. The third truck the lights worked. Glad I had trucks sitting around as too tired to deal with light problems tonight. Back tomorrow night if you have other questions Ted. bob **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2008 22:59:07 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: Re: possible lead in chinese honey drums In-Reply-To: <89359678.2571821208615062125.JavaMail.root@md15.embarq.synacor.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="utf-8"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thanks David! Lets push for an answer! bob **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 20 Apr 2008 14:42:17 +1000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: queenbee Subject: Re: The Australian Birds and Bees MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Peter wrote re Australia's quarantine station > The importation of new genetic breeding stock is a matter of grave concern > for the > honeybee industry. The quarantine facility at Eastern Creek NSW has been > sold and > will cease to provide an importation service for honeybee genetic breeding > stock after > 2010. All is not doom and gloom. It would seem that we have support to have another facility built for this importation to continue. All we need to do is negotiate where and how it will operate. Trevor Weatherhead AUSTRALIA **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 20 Apr 2008 14:55:37 +1000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: queenbee Subject: Australian quarantine procedures (was Nationwide recall of bee feed pollen) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="Windows-1252"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Bob wrote >When the queen is laying the beekeeper is allowed to go into the cage and >graft. Just a clarification to this. The grafter, who has to be approved by AQIS (Australian Quarantine and Inspection Service), is allowed into a room where the frame of brood, from which the larvae are grafted, is brought to them. They are allowed to graft, under supervision. Only the cell cups with the larvae are allowed off the premise. At no time is the grafter allowed into the flight cage holding the nucleus colonies. Trevor Weatherhead AUSTRALIA **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 20 Apr 2008 15:01:56 +1000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: queenbee Subject: Re: The Australian Birds and Bees MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > The Australian Quarantine and Inspection Service says bees are > sometimes imported illegally by post or with air passengers. In one > case, sniffer dogs found a passenger with six queen bees hidden in a > fountain pen. Sniffer dogs have been trained to detect bees. We supply AQIS (Australian Quarantine and Inspection Service) with queen bees on a regular basis for re-enforcement training for existing dogs or to train new dogs. Unfortunately, there was a case of someone trying to smuggle in queen bees several years ago, as Peter alludes to, but the dogs picked him out. Hence the cryptic comments from Ted. Yes Ted and Norm Rice says to say g'day. Trevor Weatherhead AUSTRALIA **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 20 Apr 2008 03:12:51 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: C Hooper Subject: Honey's Antioxidant Activity Correlates with Concentration of Phenolics, Color MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII Honey's Antioxidant Activity Correlates with Concentration of Phenolics, Color Antioxidant and Radical-Scavenging Activities of Slovak Honeys - An Electron Paramagnetic Resonance Study Food Chemistry, Volume 110, Issue 2, 15 September 2008, Pages 512-521 http://apitherapy.blogspot.com/2008/04/honeys-antioxidant-activity-correlates.html Abstract: The antioxidant properties of 15 honey samples from different floral sources and various Slovak regions were investigated by means of electron paramagnetic resonance spectroscopy. Cation radical of ABTS (2,2?-azino-bis(3-ethylbenzothiazoline-6-sulfonate) diammonium salt), DPPH (1,1-diphenyl-2-picrylhydrazyl) and hydroxyl radicals generated by the photochemical decomposition of hydrogen peroxide were used as oxidants... **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 20 Apr 2008 03:13:45 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: C Hooper Subject: Bees Move Into Florida's Empty Homes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII Bees Move Into Florida's Empty Homes Floridian One to Call When Bees Move In By John Leland, The New York Times, 4/20/2008 http://apitherapy.blogspot.com/2008/04/bee-move-into-floridas-empty-homes.html CAPE CORAL, Fla. - In a county with one of the nation's highest foreclosure rates, empty houses have attracted a new type of nonpaying tenant: bees. Tens of thousands of honeybees, building nests in garages, rafters, even furniture left behind... **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 20 Apr 2008 06:47:47 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: Re: The Australian Birds and Bees In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello Peter & All, Thanks for your post! My monetary figure was a figure given to me by an Australian queen breeder for what he considered his final cost to go to the country from which the import would come from. Arrange for the stock to be sent to Australia and covers all cost involved including his labor. 4-5 thousand for each import of genetics. Two imports I have heard spoken of were Italian varroa tolerant queens and Buckfast queens. Only larva actually are imported into the country at the end of the process when the larva are deemed safe to import. I kind of embarrassed to post the following but to be honest I feel I must. The Australian queen import has refused our attempts to import queens into Australia from the U.S.( through their import system). Surely I need not say why. bob **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 20 Apr 2008 12:12:35 GMT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "waldig@netzero.com" Subject: Re: The Australian Birds and Bees Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit >>In one case, sniffer dogs found a passenger with six queen bees hidden in a fountain pen. So it's a matter of time before varroa becomes widespread in Australia. By the way, won't the airport x-ray machines hurt the queens' egg laying ability? Waldemar **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 20 Apr 2008 09:13:05 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: DAVID ADAMS Subject: Haagen-Dazs and bees In-Reply-To: <20080420031345.84d281a5f2f7df0ef38485a84124037d.32ede66161.wbe@email.secureserver.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Maybe I missed someone posting anything on this earlier, if not I thought it is a very nice effort on the part of a company to help honey bees and beekeepers. In the may 2008 , Better Homes and Gardens they have a full page add regarding bees dying (and there vanilla honey bee ice cream). There is a link to a pretty good site about bees they have put up; www.helpthehoneybees.com **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 20 Apr 2008 09:14:33 -0400 Reply-To: bee-quick@bee-quick.com Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: James Fischer Subject: Re: Farm bill complicates plight of honeybees (SF Chronicle) Comments: cc: clochhead@sfchronicle.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thanks to Brian for bringing this slanted opinion piece masquerading as news to our attention. This is yet another example of the sort of drive-by journalism that CCD has been prompting, with assumptions piled up to make a platform high enough with which to jump to conclusions far beyond those accessible using mere facts and logic. A few quotes and translations here. I have copied the author of the article, and I will post any response (or abject apology) she offers in full. The negative view of Congress offered bites the hands that may provide some significant funding to address the problems we face, so we need to distance ourselves from her opinion-loaded and 100% fact-free piece. >From the article: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/04/18/MNBR107C59.D TL > "A new five-year farm bill under negotiation may spend a few million dollars > saving bees, but definitely will spend billions on farm subsidy policies that > contribute to their destruction." Funny how specific policies are not listed as being harmful to honey bees, ditto for specific subsidies, isn't it? A 100% fact-free claim. Research? Fact Check? An exercise left to the reader, it seems. Note that she did not even mention HR 1709 or S.1694, which could provide funding much more promptly than the Farm Bill, and with far fewer fireworks. http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd?bill=h110-1709 http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd?bill=s110-1694 Note well that if not for the meddling of Barbara Boxer and the native pollinator crowd, we would have had House and Senate bills that matched each other, and voted upon promptly, rather than bills that did not match, each "dying in committee". > "The Bush administration is pushing hard to cut commodity subsidies and > divert more funds to environmental and nutrition programs in the farm bill." The "Bush administration" is not known for "diverting funds" TO "environmental and nutrition programs". The Bush administration is more likely to authorize exploratory oil drilling in your beeyard than to bother to think about the actual practical problems of the honey bee, beekeeper, and grower, let alone the environment or hungry kids. > "Congressional negotiators are pushing back to expand subsidies at the > expense of these programs and want to raise more tax revenue to do it." I expect that the congresspersons doing the pushing would have a very different explanation of their motivations and actions. But the story seems slanted - how could they both "expand subsidies AT THE EXPENSE OF" other programs, and also "raise more tax revenue to do it"? If they are doing (A) "at the expense of" (B), then there would be no need to also increase taxes, would there? > "On Capitol Hill, House and Senate negotiators are hammering out final > details on a farm bill that will supercharge the industrialized crop > production that scientists believe weakens vital pollinators." Uh, which scientists believe that, exactly? It would be nice to name at least one, as there are none, to my knowledge. The consensus has firmly settled on a set of pathogens as the best suspects of the causes of CCD, and no "management practices" of ANY type have been implicated as being even involved in Colony Collapse Disorder. And if she is writing about the impact on other, so-called "native pollinators", they aren't "vital" to anything, certainly not to agriculture. This sort of statement always annoys me, as "scientists believe" is a clearly self-contradictory phrase. Scientists base conclusions on data, rather than on belief and faith, or we are not scientists at all! > "Likely culprits of so-called colony collapse disorder are new systemic > pesticides that are safer for humans but intentionally disrupt insect > neurology, causing memory loss and navigation failure." Likely? Culprit? This sort of speculation has become less plausible with every passing week. Systemics were a "suspect" a year ago, but if there was any data that might support that suspicion, it would have cropped up by now. Like it or not, all we have is data that exonerates systemic pesticides, despite all the scrutiny. > "It's all correlative at this point," said May Berenbaum, one of > the nation's top entomologists. Yeah, it is, but one thing that does NOT correlate to the cases of CCD that have been sampled and studies is the use of any class of pesticides. Everyone has looked at looked, and the evidence just isn't there. > Troy Fore, head of the American Beekeeping Federation, said the new > pesticides "don't so much kill them outright. They affect the things > insects need to be able to stay alive and make a living. They're safer > for mammals, of course that's humans, but they're pretty bad on bees." Wow, Troy said that? Kinda strange, given that systemics have reduced spray volumes and spray days and have directly resulted in reduced bee kills. I'm going to assume he was misquoted, as I can't imagine Troy blaming something so blindly, moreso when it has reduced bee kills. I'm certain that Troy is up-to-speed on the current findings of those doing the grunt work on CCD. > Other suspects are habitat loss, Habitat loss? This writer can't even keep native pollinators versus honey bees straight! Honey bees get CCD, native pollinators don't. Native pollinators certainly suffer from habitat loss, but CCD has nothing to do with loss of habitat. > exotic pests and diseases, There ya go. One rational statement, supported by the research at hand. It is the only one made in the entire article. > and the rise of vast monocultures of single crops that create > "floral deserts" when not in bloom. This is exactly the same thing as "habitat loss", and while it certainly is a problem for many animals and insects that might otherwise live in these areas, it has nothing to do with CCD. I could go on, but this is just a terribly sloppy piece of work, one that sheds no light at all, and only creates more heat and smoke. For those who want a refresher on the facts surrounding CCD, I've got my archive here: http://bee-quick.com/reprints But note well - phases like "habitat loss" and "monoculture" have been twisted from a generic environmental concern into a "possible cause of CCD". There isn't a single shred of evidence in support of the suspicions, and there's lots of evidence to the contrary, but I assure you that significant Farm Bill funding labeled "CCD Money" will be directed to address these purely environmental and species preservation concerns. In fact, if you re-read the article, you find a list of things that may well be bad for "native pollinators" (the ones that do little or no pollination of any actual food crops) being trotted out as if they had anything to do with CCD and/or honey bees. It is through these methods that the waters will be muddied sufficiently to allow significant CCD funding will be diverted to research on insects not affected by CCD, and of, at best, only marginal or highly speculative value to agriculture. Thus, the alternative pollinator crowd will have achieved its goal of getting duplicate funding from both environmental and agricultural sources. And beekeepers and honey bees be damned. We are merely the excuse they use to justify further research money that won't help us or agriculture one bit. Reread the article - it cites a list of problems that have nothing to do with CCD or honey bees, yet are of concern to those who wish to preserve "native pollinator" species. Who fed this lazy reporter this nonsense? Someone did. Someone knew that she would not check any of it against primary sources. I warned everyone about this problem some time ago when I explained how this "Pollinator Protection Racket" was being set up a year ago. http://listserv.albany.edu:8080/cgi-bin/wa?A2=ind0706E&L=BEE-L&P=R2&D=0& I=-3&T=0 Yeah, I'll say it - "Told ya so." **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 20 Apr 2008 10:17:25 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Aaron Morris Subject: Re: possible lead in chinese honey drums MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I don't think the concern is lead in the drums or lids or whatever. = Think rather the reason for the massive toy recall of late last year. = LEAD PAINT! And note how I made this point without quoting ANYTHING = from previously posted material. See, it's really easy to do. **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2008 12:54:42 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Tim Townsend Organization: TPLR Honey Farms Ltd. Subject: Re: possible lead in chinese honey drums In-Reply-To: <89359678.2571821208615062125.JavaMail.root@md15.embarq.synacor.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit DAVID ADAMS wrote: > (but who is checking?) . I still > wonder if the paint in China honey drums has lead in it? > > The lead is not in the drums, but on the drums, not all but some. The action of removing the lid drops small flakes onto the honey. Tim Townsend **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 20 Apr 2008 15:28:00 -0700 Reply-To: deelusbybeekeeper@yahoo.com Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dee Lusby Subject: Comprehensive Report of How to Use Honey Super Cell for ending varroa problems Comments: cc: influx@ya.com, office@honeysupercell.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii This is a post to all on the BEE-L list, of a Manual for using Honey Super Cell in video form, for making nucs for regressing bees down in a fast, clean time frame to more natural sizing again, accomplished/made by Stephan Palmer, for control of Varroa Mites and accompanying secondary diseases. Max Hamby of Westmorland, Calif should be proud for helping beekeepers with such a needed product. No more frett complaining about years of doing commercially now for changeover back to a clean sustainable beekeeping system. When done and wanting wax only, simply pull out and set aside until more nucs are wanted/needed. http://www.lapalmamiel.com/manualengl.htm Sincerely, Dee A. Lusby Commercial small cell beekeeper http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/Organicbeekeepers/ ____________________________________________________________________________________ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 20 Apr 2008 21:00:46 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: DAVID ADAMS Subject: Re: possible lead in chinese honey drums In-Reply-To: <480A3FF2.1030304@tplrhoneyfarms.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I'm sorry, I should have put my thoughts out clearer. The food grade paint was what I was talking about possibly containing lead. Since corners are rounded off so to speak in order to sell the USA a cheap product and all kinds of very important safety rules have been broken already by china, I personally think the USDA should place holds on imported chinese honey and do some random tests on the paint to answer the question of the safety of the paint. Maybe it's fine,but just maybe it is not, I would like to know for sure. **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 20 Apr 2008 11:27:07 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: =?windows-1252?Q?Ted_Hancock?= Subject: Re: The Australian Birds and Bees Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I had no idea the protocols for Australian bee imports were so sophisticated and thorough. I'm impressed. Hopefully that guy who tried to smuggle queens in was nobody important and is no longer in the industry. In my early beekeeping career I worked for a number of commercial operators and learned something from each of them. But I learned the most working for Norman Rice in Australia. The great thing about working for someone else is they have to pay for all your mistakes. And I cost Norman plenty on a number of occasions. But I think my most egregious error was the day I mistakenly thought that watermelon in the fridge was mine. Turned out it wasn't. It was a hot day and I couldn't help myself, but the day got a lot hotter when Norman found his watermelon gone. While in Australia I also met Trevor Weatherhead but had no inkling that I'd meet him again years later in Edmonton Alberta. On the latter occasion Trevor was representing Australia on the import issue. If you have never met Trevor I can tell you he is most personable and likable. Trevor had come to the Edmonton meeting to ask that Canada change the definition of Australia to exclude a couple of it's northern islands, what with them being overrun with mites or hive beetles or some such thing. I was in favour of Australian imports then (in fact Trevor smoothly convinced me to draft his resolution on the subject - saying he was unfamiliar with the unique accent up here) and still think the Canadian industry needs Australian bees. The big risk factor in moving bees around the world is these beekeepers who think the rules don't apply to them. And we all know such individuals are not exclusive to any one country. While extolling the virtues of down under I wanted to mention that I recently talked to a New Zealand beekeeper by phone. I am not sure I heard correctly, what with the funny accent they have down there, but I believe he said a number of beekeepers in NZ have teamed up to fund a resistance breeding program. Perhaps someone can correct me but the figure I heard was $10,000, that is each beekeeper is donating $10,000/yr to have some university breed a bee resistant to varroa. That contrasts sharply with the lands of the free, brave and meek here in North America where we spend all our time sniveling about the government letting our industry go to hell in a hand basket. ( you got a problem - work together and fix it! How did they learn to think like that?) Ted **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 20 Apr 2008 21:29:28 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Charles Harper Subject: Re: The Australian Birds and Bees In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit That would be real cheap compared to the Russian program it is running at $12,000,000.00 + right now. Harper's Honey Farm Charles Harper charlie@russianbreeder.org labeeman@russianbreeder.com (337) 298 6261 Ted Hancock wrote: > breeding program. Perhaps someone can correct me but the figure I heard > was $10,000, that is each beekeeper is donating $10,000/yr to have some > university breed a bee resistant to varroa. **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2008 12:55:54 +1000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: queenbee Subject: Re: The Australian Birds and Bees MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="Windows-1252"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Waldemar wrote > By the way, won't the airport x-ray machines hurt the queens' egg laying > ability? I have had queens go through the normal x-ray for passenger luggage and also the baggage. Those queens performed as well as bees that did not go through the x-ray. Trevor Weatherhead AUSTRALIA **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2008 08:56:33 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: Re: The Australian Birds and Bees In-Reply-To: <003501c8a35b$38c75c80$708fa63a@new1> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="Windows-1252"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello Ted & All, The attempt to bring in new genetics into Australia actually brought enough attention to the need for outside genetics to bring about the present system. Maybe the recent U.S. queen breeder situation will do the same for us. When done properly bringing in outside genetics can move programs along quickly. Hopefully now that Aphis sees that U.S. queen breeders need a similar system then perhaps we will finally get an import system similar to Australia. Unchecked bringing in of queens is common in many beekeeping areas of the world. Similar to the way it was in Brother Adams time. At meetings beekeepers are surprised to learn of the worlds beekeeping. Spain has a higher number of hives than the U.S.. Is years ahead of us as far as N. ceranae is concerned. Italy has been working on a varroa tolerant bee before we ever saw the first varroa in the U.S. The research in the U.K. is far ahead of us on virus research. This might change in the future but you can spend days ( maybe weeks) looking at published research on virus from the U.K. Many say that if the AHPA & ABF combined beekeepers would get a higher number of its projects done. Surely true. I say if all the worlds researchers worked closer together it would be easier to solve beekeepings problems. Dave Mendes ( next ABF president) said it best when talking about CCD. Beekeepers seem to feel like they are in an AA meeting when asked about CCD. Afraid to say they have got a problem. Dave then said: "I have a problem" His losses are in the 50% range even with a huge amount of splitting. Numbers seem to increase with each new season. Harder and harder to keep healthy bees. Canada says they have no CCD problems but every Canada beekeeper I speak with says over the last few years their losses have been climbing. Call it CCD or simply winter loss they have a problem Canada has a problem! Around the world bees are dying in larger numbers. Empty hives or bees with a small circle of bees and a queen. I will (as in an AA meeting )say: THE WORLDS BEEKEEPERS HAVE GOT A PROBLEM. In China areas have had huge losses with CCD like symptoms. China is starting to see a problem. bob **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2008 00:01:13 +1000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: queenbee Subject: The Australian Birds and Bees MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="Windows-1252"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ted wrote >I had no idea the protocols for Australian bee imports were so > sophisticated and thorough. I'm impressed. Hopefully that guy who tried to > smuggle queens in was nobody important and is no longer in the industry. Sorry to say that he is still in the industry and is currently exporting to the USA. Have a look at www.honeybee.org.au/may01.html for details of the case. Trevor Weatherhead AUSTRALIA **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2008 09:01:32 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: Re: The Australian Birds and Bees In-Reply-To: <480BFC08.6000508@russianbreeder.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="Windows-1252"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > That would be real cheap compared to the Russian program it is running > at $12,000,000.00 + right now. What costs does the above include. bob **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2008 10:31:10 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: Re: The Australian Birds and Bees In-Reply-To: <009f01c8a3b8$2a70bac0$1a08d879@new1> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="Windows-1252"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello Trevor & All, Times change and people change. The need to break the rules is not needed in Australia now in my opinion. Rules which allow no new genetics are antique in today's world of beekeeping. It seems some queen breeders feel the rules are holding up progress in the U.S. Of course never the opinion of all! A survey of alleles in U.S. bees showed we needed genetics. Thanks to AHB, Russian bee import and the Australian import the situation has improved. Sue Cobey has said we still need genetics. A point I agree with. Should Brother Adam have been made to pick up trash from the highway ( community service) for bringing in scutellata genetics from Africa? While on the Irish list I quickly realized many felt bringing in outside genetics was not a good idea as they felt A.mm was all they needed. We all have got our opinions and rightly so. However when rules tie the hands of people trying to improve bee stock then in my opinion new rules need to be made which allow both sides some leeway. Old hard liners have stopped progress in beekeeping for decades. I have not said much about what I do not like about your system and the old Australian bee. Having imported some to test from most of your exporters I see improvement needed in many areas. I am a straight shooter and it is what it is. Those genetics from Buckfast and Italy have really improved the Australian stock. I am releasing this seasons Australian import queens later today so too early to tell about the 2007/2008 stock but each year I see improvement. The queens today come from the Dann Purvis closed breeding program he set up at Brown's bees. In the first import ( January 2005) I found three hives (out of 150 checked) with slight chalkbrood issues.( reported in the second in series article ABJ 2005) Since than I have found none in Browns bees. In one exporters queens the whole batch died from chalkbrood. The old Australian line genetics has been plagued with chalkbrood for years. The first thing Canada users of Australian bees told me . Despite the opinion of some people many of us have found chalkbrood is hard to end by selection in chalkbrood susceptible bees. Outside genetics works better. Resistance to chalkbrood was the reason for outside genetics in Australia a decade ago. The curious thing about chalkbrood in Australian bees is that for the most part the lines in Australia show little chalkbrood but when imported into Canada and the U.S. the same genetics can at times crash from chalkbrood. Each seasons bees from Browns bees seem better than the lasts. I would be happy to supply contact numbers for U.S. commercial beekeepers using Australian bees of Browns bees which are thrilled with the bees. The improvement in Browns bees has came about in my opinion from Australia setting up its queen import system. The improvement in my bees has came from the same source. Was Brother Adam wrong to try to improve the old Amm by importing genetics? Boy am I opening a can of worms here! bob **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2008 19:56:21 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dave Cushman Subject: Re: The Australian Birds and Bees In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Bob > Was Brother Adam wrong to try to improve the old Amm by importing genetics? > Boy am I opening a can of worms here! Not a can of worms, but enough of a baited hook to get me typing :-) Bro Adam at no time ever tried to improve our UK Native bee, I have often wondered what our present situation would have been like if he had put his efforts in that direction, he was a clever guy, but he was not the saint than many in US place up on a pedestal. He only ever set out to produce/synthesize a bee to suit his own purpose... That of producing heather honey on Dartmoor. He achieved his aim in good measure and I applaud his achievement, but he did a lot of damage to the dark European honey bee by declaring it extinct, as many believed him and started importing all sorts of exotic strains. Regards & Best 73s, Dave Cushman, G8MZY http://www.dave-cushman.net (http://website.lineone.net/~dave.cushman) Short FallBack M/c, Build 7.01/2.01 **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2008 16:39:19 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bill Truesdell Subject: cordovans In-Reply-To: <94411E6338BF4992A3D1E56328B848DE@bobPC> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Anyone have any experience managing Cordovans in the north? My guess is they will behave just like Italians, which I believe is their parent lineage. Bill Truesdell Bath, Maine **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2008 16:19:46 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Aurora's Garden Subject: burning brush near a hive In-Reply-To: <480CE355.409@lineone.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v622) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Greetings to all, I am a new beekeeper here in Brunswick, Maine. Usually in late March or April, I burn a small amount of brush in my back yard from the fall and spring clean-ups. It's only small apple tree branches or water sprouts, as well as other larger pine branches which have fallen down in winter due to ice and wind. I've a newly established hive about 40 feet or so from the brush pile, and I'm wondering if the brush fire/smoke would upset the bees? I'd so appreciate some help with this question. Thank you so much, on behalf of Aurora (the queen bee) Debbie **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2008 07:33:31 +1000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: queenbee Subject: Re: The Australian Birds and Bees MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="Windows-1252"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Bob wrote > The need to break the rules is not needed in Australia now in my opinion. It never has been. The present rules, with some slight changes, have been in place since about 1984. So in 2000 there was no problems for those who had used the Quarantine facility previously. It should be noted that the person involved started using the Quarantine facility after he had been caught. It didn't prove a problem then. Trevor Weatherhead AUSTRALIA **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2008 09:44:16 +1000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Geoff Manning Subject: Re: The Australian Birds and Bees MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="Windows-1252"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ted Hancock" >I had no idea the protocols for Australian bee imports were so > sophisticated and thorough. I'm impressed. Hopefully that guy who tried to > smuggle queens in was nobody important and is no longer in the industry. He is still in the industry, a fact attested to from time to time by Bob Harrison. Hopefully he is now a reformed person. Geoff Manning **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * ****************************************************