From MAILER-DAEMON Sat Feb 28 11:08:45 2009 Return-Path: <> X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.8 (2007-02-13) on industrial X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-86.7 required=2.4 tests=ADVANCE_FEE_1,ALL_NATURAL, AWL,MAILTO_TO_SPAM_ADDR,SPF_HELO_PASS,USER_IN_WHITELIST autolearn=disabled version=3.1.8 X-Original-To: adamf@IBIBLIO.ORG Delivered-To: adamf@IBIBLIO.ORG Received: from listserv.albany.edu (unknown [169.226.1.24]) by metalab.unc.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id DBFB349084 for ; Sat, 28 Feb 2009 11:03:38 -0500 (EST) Received: from listserv.albany.edu (listserv.albany.edu [169.226.1.24]) by listserv.albany.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id n1SG3Y70017265 for ; Sat, 28 Feb 2009 11:03:38 -0500 (EST) Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2009 11:03:35 -0500 From: "University at Albany LISTSERV Server (14.5)" Subject: File: "BEE-L LOG0805D" To: adamf@IBIBLIO.ORG Message-ID: Content-Length: 182441 Lines: 3976 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 May 2008 19:28:20 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "Peter L. Borst" Subject: Re: Pollen MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline deknow wrote: > our thesis is that since the introduction of varroa, the number of substances that beekeepers are willing to put in the hives has increased dramatically... This thesis is supported by neither any data nor a close reading of history. The use of disinfectants to combat disease in the silkworm is fairly old: > In 1835, an Italian lawyer, who had interested himself in biology, had discovered that a fungus caused the silkworm disease of muscardine. He was the first investigator to identify a well known animal disease with an identified micro-organism. He also interested himself in antiseptics and disinfectants and investigated acids, alkalies, chlorine, sulphur, alcohol, the products available to him at that time. In 1881 Koch examined 70 compounds for their antibacterial activity. He declared that mercuric chloride was the best of them. Indeed, it was the only substance that killed bacterial spores. In the 1903 ABC XYZ of Bee Culture, Root talks about using disinfectants against foul brood. He states that: > Carbolic acid, phenol, thymol, salicylic acid, naphthol beta, perchloride of mercury as well as many other substances have been tried. ... There are certain substances which evaporate at the ordinary temperatures of the hive, and whose vapors, while not actually killing the bacilli, arrest their increase or growth. Among such substances are carbolic acid, phenyl, lysol, eucalyptus, camphor, napthalene among others. The use of carbolic acid on bees, which continues to this day, has its roots at the dawn of modern disease treatment: > Lister became aware of a paper published (in French) by the French chemist Louis Pasteur which showed that rotting and fermentation could occur without any oxygen if micro-organisms were present. If micro-organisms were causing gangrene, the problem was how to get rid of them. Pasteur suggested three methods: to filter them out, to heat them up, or expose them to chemical solutions. > The first two were inappropriate in a human wound so Lister experimented with the third. Carbolic acid (phenol) had been in use as a means of deodorizing sewage, so Lister tested the results of spraying instruments, the surgical incisions, and dressings with a solution of it. Lister found that carbolic acid solution swabbed on wounds markedly reduced the incidence of gangrene. Some consider Lister "the father of modern antisepsis". -- Peter L Borst Danby, NY USA 42.35, -76.50 http://picasaweb.google.com/peterlborst **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 May 2008 00:33:16 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dick Allen Subject: Re: Fwd: [BEE-L] Fumidil Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit >Dr. Eric Mussen is a very smart guy, and a great resource to beekeepers. Yes, he is. I’ve spoken with him at conferences a few times myself. And I seriously doubt that Eric Mussen would take anyone’s head off, as it were, by telling them “in no uncertain terms what his opinion is of people who get ‘creative’ with medications”. Now about what Mussen has “clearly” said, he does CLEARLY say in his newsletter: “that worker honey bees infected with Nosema ceranae apparently will not take feed, either syrup or patty.  Thus, the bees have to have the medicated syrup applied onto their bodies to force them to clean themselves off and take their medicine.” We’ve also seen what the label also CLEARLY says from two other posters, besides yours truly, on this subject . >I hope that this clarifies the issue. Yes, me too, Randy. And btw keep up the good work you’re doing! Regards, Dick Allen **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 May 2008 22:37:58 -0700 Reply-To: deelusbybeekeeper@yahoo.com Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dee Lusby Subject: Re: Pollen In-Reply-To: <20080521.122348.20462.11@webmail12.dca.untd.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Since we are talking formic acid here for negating pollen,....what about OZONE doing the same? Understand honey board recently sponsored some research with Logan lab for sanitizing insides of beehives from treatment contamination to include even coumaphos and fluvalinate even....... If that strong what does it do to the bees food stored in the frames like pollen and honey and/or syrups? That to be is the big question to add now I would think....... Dee A. Lusby **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 May 2008 07:51:45 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "Peter L. Borst" Subject: africanized bee questions MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Dr. DeGrandi-Hoffman writes: > Maintaining European colonies in Africanized habitats is difficult. European colonies become Africanized if the queen open mates. Africanized colonies often reject introduced European queens. European colonies also can be usurped by small swarms of African bees. The emphasis of my research program is to identify factors leading to the rejection of European queens by Africanized colonies and develop methods for requeening Africanized colonies with European queens. I also am determining the factors leading to the usurpation of European honey bee colonies by African bees including the effects of nest usurpation on worker-queen interactions and characterization of pheromone profiles of invading bees. > Dr. DeGrandi-Hoffman has spent the last 6 years studying the behavior of Africanized honey bees to identify traits that have enabled African bees to displace resident European populations in almost every habitat they have invaded. These include studies uncovering interactions between workers and queens during queen replacement in Africanized honey bee colonies, sperm utilization by queens mated with African and European drones, and fluctuating asymmetries in workers that are hybrids from crosses between African and European bees. Dr. DeGrandi-Hoffman also has conducted experiments to determine the inheritance of defensive behavior in crosses between Africanized and European honey bees. gears.tucson.ars.ag.gov/home/hoffman/ **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 May 2008 05:05:40 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: C Hooper Subject: Honey Effective in Reducing Radiochemotherapy-Induced Mucositis MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII Honey Effective in Reducing Radiochemotherapy-Induced Mucositis Honey as Topical Prophylaxis Against Radiochemotherapy-Induced Mucositis in Head and Neck Cancer The Journal of Laryngology & Otology, 19 May 2008 http://apitherapy.blogspot.com/2008/05/honey-effective-in-reducing.html Aim: To evaluate the efficacy of pure natural honey as prophylaxis against radiochemotherapy-induced mucositis, through clinical scoring of oral and oropharyngeal mucositis, and culturing of pathogenic oral and oropharyngeal microbes... **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 May 2008 08:10:07 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "Peter L. Borst" Subject: Re: Multiple causes, says expert MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline > We conducted a long-term investigation to ascertain effects on honey bee, Apis mellifera L., colonies during and after exposure to flowering canola, Brassica napus variety Hyola 420, grown from clothianidin-treated seed. Colonies were placed in the middle of 1-ha clothianidin seed-treated or control canola fields for 3 wk during bloom, and thereafter they were moved to a fall apiary. There were four treated and four control fields, and four colonies per field, giving 32 colonies total. Bee mortality, worker longevity, and brood development were regularly assessed in each colony for 130 d from initial exposure to canola. Samples of honey, beeswax, pollen, and nectar were regularly collected for 130 d, and the samples were analyzed for clothianidin residues by using high-performance liquid chromatography with tandem mass spectrometry detection. > Overall, no differences in bee mortality, worker longevity, or brood development occurred between control and treatment groups throughout the study. Weight gains of and honey yields from colonies in treated fields were not significantly different from those in control fields. Although clothianidin residues were detected in honey, nectar, and pollen from colonies in clothianidin-treated fields, maximum concentrations detected were 8- to 22-fold below the reported no observable adverse effects concentration. Clothianidin residues were not detected in any beeswax sample. Assessment of overwintered colonies in spring found no differences in those originally exposed to treated or control canola. The results show that honey bee colonies will, in the long-term, be unaffected by exposure to clothianidin seed-treated canola. -- Exposure to Clothianidin Seed-Treated Canola Has No Long-Term Impact on Honey Bees Authors: Cutler, G. Christopher; Scott-Dupree, Cynthia D. Source: Journal of Economic Entomology, Volume 100, Number 3, June 2007 , pp. 765-772(8) **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 May 2008 08:16:45 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "Peter L. Borst" Subject: Re: Multiple causes, says expert MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Dee Lusby wrote: >1. treatments in general across te board that breach the co-dependency working relationships within a beehive of various mircro-organisms that have beent here for milions of years Antibiotic use certainly *could have* a detrimental effect on beneficial micro-organisms. However, no one has shown that it does. There certainly is no evidence that formic acid does so. Furthermore, the bees themselves carry beneficial bacteria in their guts, so the colony is continually being re-inoculated with the micro-organisms. This is what makes infections so difficult to treat. As a matter of fact, formic seems to have no effect on deformed wing virus: > Even though the mite populations were reduced, the prevalence of DWV in colonies did not change over the 4-wk study period. Our failure to demonstrate a reduction in virus prevalence is troubling in that it demonstrates that removal of mites in late summer does not have an immediate effect on virus levels in colonies and the viral infections in these colonies is at high levels entering winter when most varroa/virus colony loss occurs. > A treatment that takes 24 h and kills 50% of varroa mites in brood may be a useful tool for beekeepers that need to treat for varroa mites during the nectar flow. -- Short-Term Fumigation of Honey Bee (Hymenoptera: Apidae) Colonies with Formic and Acetic Acids for the Control of Varroa destructor (Acari: Varroidae) DENNIS VANENGELSDORP, et al J. Econ. Entomol. 101(2): 256Ð264 (2008) **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 May 2008 02:42:12 GMT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "waldig@netzero.net" Subject: Colonies in Cinder Block Commercial Buildlings Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Does anyone have direct experience in removing colonies from cinderblock walls? Do the bees actually build the nest comb in the holes of cinderblock walls? I am going to inspect a commercial building allegedly with 2 colonies in it. I hope there is a drywall behind the cinder blocks. Has anyone removed a colony from cinder block? I'd love to learn from your experience. Waldemar **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 May 2008 20:48:28 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: randy oliver Subject: Re: Pollen In-Reply-To: <20080521.122348.20462.11@webmail12.dca.untd.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline > > >>>our thesis is that since the introduction of varroa, the number of > substances that beekeepers are willing to put in the hives has increased > dramatically...which coincides with the decline in number of bees and > beekeepers in this country The decline in number of colonies is not surprising, due to varroa's habit of killing them. > given the importance of microorganisms in the hive, we are questioning if this increase in "treatments" has affected the microorganisms in the hive, and what the effect on the bees might be. Then you are in good company! Hundreds of researchers, and thousands of beekeepers have been asking the same question. Dean, I am not an apologist for chemical treatments. It is hard to imagine any chemical, natural or otherwise, not having some sort of side effects. Many have looked, or are looking into these effects. Most beekeepers would give up all chemical treatments in an eyeblink if they thought that their bees would thrive without. The strongest argument in favor of any method of beekeeping (organic included) is to demonstrate success. Quit your day job, and depend upon your bees to pay the mortgage and put food on the table. Do so successfully for several years (as Dee has), and others will copy. However, don't expect that your methods will have the same results in all areas. Randy Oliver **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 May 2008 08:57:02 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Aaron Morris Subject: Re: Pollen In-Reply-To: <200805221223.m4MC0h36013016@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Peter wrote: "This thesis (since the introduction of varroa, the number of substances that beekeepers are willing to put in the hives has increased dramatically...)is supported by neither any data nor a close reading of history." Peter is usually pretty "on the mark", but in this case, and in all fairness to Dean, I have to agree that since the advent of Varroa, the substances, ease of use and lack of concern over said use has sky rocketed! The beekeeper mindset shifted from one where pesticides were the enemy to one of we can't survuve without 'em! The problem is the alternative (watching your bees die) is at least as bad or worse that walking the straight and narrow (no treatments). This is not a call for the "Organic" crowd to rattle their sabers they have their own list for that. Neither should the last statement be construed as "Organics not welcome here!" This post is merely an observation and agreement with Dean that since Varroa arrived on the scene there has been an increasingly lackadaisical attitude about what some beekeepers are willing to put into their hives and how often the do it. Aaron Morris - thinking "Luke, beware the dark side!" **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 May 2008 10:52:13 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Aaron Morris Subject: Steve Tabor MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I just received sad news that Steve Tabor passed away this morning. Bob Cole wrote, "He had been in the hospital for several days with double pneumonia and developed complications with that. There is no information at this time on a memorial service; he will be cremated." Steve was a very colorful character in the beekeeping industry. I once had the pleasure of falling asleep during a presentation he gave at an EAS conference at 7 Springs Resort in Pennsylvania. It was a beautiful sunny afternoon in a bee yard in an idyllic location, and I just dozed off. When I woke after the lecture I apologized to Steve for having fallen asleep during his presentation. He commented in his strong Southern drawl, "No need to apologize, I wish I'd been the one who took the nap!" As I said, Steve was a very colorful character. I'm saddened by this news. Aaron Morris **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 May 2008 11:19:03 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Aaron Morris Subject: Re: How does Fumagilin works? In-Reply-To: <200805211833.m4LI7cMF012147@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Juanse Barros asks, "So how does fumagilin works?" I'm basing this response on a conversation I had many years ago with Eric Mussen. It is my recollection of what Eric said. Please note there are no grammatical constructs such as: Eric said, "This is how fumagillin works." Anything I write hereafter should be read that Aaron's memory of a conversation that took place well over 5 years ago is as follows. The critter that causes nosema in honey bees (at the time the critter was classified as a protozoan, not a microsporidian nor a fungus) has a barb-like aparatus (with a fibrous connection twixt barb and body) that it "fires" into the lining of the bees gut as it is passing through the bees' digestive tract, thereby anchoring the critter in the bee gut. Anchored thusly, the critter is in a happy space where it is able to thrive and reproduce in the manner that the critter is accustomed (binary fission?). The discussion of the process segued into a discussion of Alien, staring Sigourney Weaver (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0078748/) but eventually got back on topic. My recollection is an assertion that fumagillin affects the recombinant RNA (and yes folks, I am really vague on this recollection) in a manner that impede the critter's ability to "fire the barb", hence it harmlessly passes through the bees' digestive tract. Now I'm not positive if it's recombinant DNA or R-RNA, I googled a little while I made this post up but that didn't jog my memory. I am fairly to very confident that the manner in which fumagillin works is that it keeps "the critter" from being anchored in the bees digestive tract. I don't recollect any assertion of "death to critter" and I don't think there was discussion regarding life of critter after exposure. There was discussion regarding concern of keeping human exposure to fumagillin to zero (as in contaminated honey). The discussion was predicated on a query if fumagillin could be incorporated into a pollen patty, which Eric dismissed as a bad idea (stick to the label). Aaron Morris - thinking bee conferences are wonderful events! **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 May 2008 12:39:06 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Ralph Harrison Subject: Re: Colonies in Cinder Block Commercial Buildlings MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Waldemar; I have trapped several colonies out of cinder block walls. You have to use the cone method of trapping with a hive hanging next to the cone. This will take six weeks (two life cycles). This is what you will need to do the job. Access to the roof. Lots of rope to hang the hive body next to the cone. You and tie it to air conditioners or other structures on the roof or use a stack of cinder blocks as a mounting point. I onde used a spare tire with cinder blocks on top. A frame to hold the hive body. Make one out of wood in the shape of a L and put the hive on the bottom of the L. Feel free to give me a call if you have any other questions. Ralph Milford, CT 203-435-8135 **************Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with Tyler Florence" on AOL Food. (http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4&?NCID=aolfod00030000000002) **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 May 2008 15:18:43 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bill Truesdell Subject: Re: Pollen In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Aaron Morris wrote: > Peter is usually pretty "on the mark", but in this case, and in all > fairness to Dean, I have to agree that since the advent of Varroa, the > substances, ease of use and lack of concern over said use has sky > rocketed! If you go from a fairly steady state beekeeping world where the pests were under control and add something that disrupts it, you will get an explosion of treatments, which is exactly what Peter showed in his post. In essence, human behavior has not changed. Bill Truesdell Bath, Maine **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 May 2008 13:27:31 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: bman140 Subject: Interesting Article of a Swarm of Bees In-Reply-To: <20080522050540.84d281a5f2f7df0ef38485a84124037d.d6aebdea2e.wbe@email.secureserver.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit http://www.kfdm.com/news/children_26106___article.html/thousands_bees.html I particularly like the part where 'they swarm in the spring and come back in the fall'. Ed **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 23 May 2008 07:16:22 +1000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: queenbee Subject: Re: Carbolic acid (was Pollen) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Peter wrote > The use of carbolic acid on bees, which continues to this day, has its > roots at the dawn of modern disease treatment: In Australia, carbolic acid is no longer used (there may be the odd idiot or two). This is because of residue problems in the honey. The use was stopped several years ago. I am not sure that it was ever used for modern disease control in Australia. Its use was as a repellent to remove the bees from supers so as the honey could be extracted. I remember seeing a reference by one of the old beekeepers, who died in the early 1930's, that he used carbolic acid to stop robbing. Trevor Weatherhead AUSTRALIA **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 May 2008 22:32:06 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dave Cushman Subject: Re: Steve Tabor In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi All As one well known maverick, I salute the passing of my friend Steve Tabor who was a maverick to surpass me. I enjoyed his company and enjoyed arguing with him as much as I enjoyed learning from him. Tomorrow evening I will have a stiff whiskey in his remembrance. Regards & Best 73s, Dave Cushman, G8MZY http://www.dave-cushman.net (http://website.lineone.net/~dave.cushman) Short FallBack M/c, Build 7.01/2.01 **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 May 2008 17:45:13 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "=?windows-1252?Q?J._Waggle?=" Subject: To Cure a Bee Sting=?windows-1252?Q?=85?= Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hello All, I am seeking cures and remedies for bee stings, especially strange obscure cures. If you can provide any leads to the possible source of the remedy, or to where I may find a reference, that would be greatly appreciated. Any ‘leads’ would be helpful. A few samples of the types I am seeking: “rub the bees that has stung us, or any other bee around the wound. This is making the body the antidote to the tail.” Jacob Isaac 1799 ‘The General Apiarian” “Cure a bee sting by covering it with earwax.” (10) “To stop the smarting of a bee sting apply some clay kneaded and thinned with urine.” (7) ‘a bee sting treated with ammonia and whisky, will relieve you in a measure’ (8) Thanks in advance! Best Wishes, Joe feralbeeproject.com **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 May 2008 21:09:55 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: David MacFawn Subject: Re: Steve Tabor MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit He certainly was a colorful character but he knew his bees. I had lunch with him and Dewey Jowers at the SC State Beekeepers meeting in March. His mind was sharp as ever. Dave MacFawn **************Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with Tyler Florence" on AOL Food. (http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4&?NCID=aolfod00030000000002) **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 May 2008 19:05:35 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: randy oliver Subject: Re: Steve Tabor In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Steve was certainly a great influence on me--taught me to question common "knowledge" in beekeeping. In fact, I dedicated my ABJ article on breeding for varroa resistance to him. Randy Oliver **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 May 2008 20:23:29 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Barry Digman Subject: Re: Interesting Article of a Swarm of Bees In-Reply-To: <197577.31139.qm@web57702.mail.re3.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit That was bad. If anyone would like to take the time to try and correct some of it, the news director contact information is: David Lowell, News Director, dlowell@kfdm.com barry **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 23 May 2008 05:31:32 +0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Juanse Barros Subject: Re: To Cure a Bee Sting=?WINDOWS-1252?Q?=85?= In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Homeopati globulus Apis D6 for a month. -- Juanse Barros J. APIZUR S.A. Carrera 695 Gorbea - CHILE +56-45-271693 08-3613310 http://apiaraucania.blogspot.com/ juanseapi@gmail.com **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 May 2008 21:26:44 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: randy oliver Subject: Re: How does Fumagilin works? In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline > > "So how does fumagilin work?" To the best of my knowledge, no one is sure! Fumagilin is also effective against microsporidians in humans, and in a recent review paper (which I am unable to remember the title of), the author stated that the mechanism of action was unknown. It apparently has effects on mRNA (which transcribes the template for protein synthesis), and inhibits angiogenesis (the formation of blood vessels). Randy Oliver **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 23 May 2008 06:42:42 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Michael Palmer Subject: Re: Pollen In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed > The use of carbolic acid on bees, which continues to this day, has its >roots at the dawn of modern disease treatment: Charles Mraz, inventor of the fume board, used carbolic. Carbolic acid is still used on fume boards, to clear supers. I understand it works better than anything available and approved...as long as the sun is shining. Mike **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 23 May 2008 06:53:12 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: =?UTF-8?Q?Peter_Borst?= Subject: Re: Carbolic acid (was Pollen) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit queenbee wrote: >> The use of carbolic acid on bees, which continues to this day, has its >> roots at the dawn of modern disease treatment > >In Australia, carbolic acid is no longer used (there may be the odd idiot or two). This is because of residue problems in the honey. I worked in a bee supply store in the 1970s and we sold a lot of phenol (carbolic acid) to beekeepers. I knew at the time it was not only dangerous to handle but could cause liver damage in the long term. I got a real bad burn from it filling gallon cans from a 55 gal drum. Stuff we sold in the 70s that is no longer legal: Phenol for honey removal Sodium sulfathiazole for AFB treatment EDB (ethylene dibromide) against wax moths Chlordane against ants Cyanogas (cyanide) to kill bees Resmethrin (ditto) Stuff from the 1970s still used: Benzaldahyde for honey removal BeeGo (butyric anhydride) (ditto) Terramycin for AFB paradichlorobenzene for moths Bt was introduced to control moths but never really caught on Plastic foundation and combs (Prohibited by some organic standards. What is the effect of raising brood in plastic cells?) Bees have been fed cane sugar for over a hundred years with no apparent ill effect. Many formulae for pollen substitutes have been tried for about as long pb **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 23 May 2008 06:10:57 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Richard Drutchas Subject: long legged ladies MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Interesting tid-bit, bought 100 queens from Florida early this spring and I couldnt believe how long their legs where. They didnt look at all natural almost like spider legs. They walk very high on the comb it was freaky to see. Im wondering if this is some new deformidy caused by chemicals or just a breed trait Ive never seen. **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 23 May 2008 07:33:23 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "Timothy C. Eisele" Subject: Re: To Cure a Bee Sting=?windows-1252?Q?=85?= In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit J. Waggle wrote: > Hello All, > > I am seeking cures and remedies for bee stings, especially strange obscure > cures. As it happens, I just saw an odd one one earlier this morning: tape a penny over the site of the sting. It was in Comment #3 on this page: http://myrmecos.wordpress.com/2008/05/22/mixed-feelings-about-honey-bees/ Personally, I think it's a case of giving the person something to do for the 10-15 minutes it takes for the pain to fade, but hey, for some people it might be better than just gritting your teeth and waiting it out. -- Tim Eisele tceisele@mtu.edu http://somethingscrawlinginmyhair.com **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 23 May 2008 05:06:41 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Eugene Makovec Subject: Re: Interesting Article of a Swarm of Bees In-Reply-To: <49546AFC96844E3A8C1FF172219FCE09@Family> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit > That was bad. If anyone would like to take the time > to try and correct some > of it, the news director contact information is ... That's assuming the news director cares about facts in a story such as this. It's all about sensationalism. The homeowner, for example, was "attacked" by the bees, though somehow not stung. As for the pest control guy simply spraying the swarm with insecticide: Is southeast Texas an Africanized area, making it standard practice to kill swarms? In any case, his statements demonstrated a complete lack of knowledge of honeybees. Eugene Makovec Kirkwood, MO **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 23 May 2008 08:18:36 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: =?UTF-8?Q?Peter_Borst?= Subject: Re: Multiple causes, says expert Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit >> Antibiotic use certainly *could have* a detrimental effect on beneficial micro-organisms. However, no one has shown that it does. On the other hand: > Antibiotics are a crucial line of defense against bacterial infections. Nevertheless, several antibiotics are natural products of microorganisms that have as yet poorly appreciated ecological roles in the wider environment. We isolated hundreds of soil bacteria with the capacity to grow on antibiotics as a sole carbon source. Of 18 antibiotics tested, representing eight major classes of natural and synthetic origin, 13 to 17 supported the growth of clonal bacteria from each of 11 diverse soils. > Bacteria subsisting on antibiotics are surprisingly phylogenetically diverse, and many are closely related to human pathogens. Furthermore, each antibiotic-consuming isolate was resistant to multiple antibiotics at clinically relevant concentrations. This phenomenon suggests that this unappreciated reservoir of antibiotic-resistance determinants can contribute to the increasing levels of multiple antibiotic resistance in pathogenic bacteria. "Bacteria Subsisting on Antibiotics" Gautam Dantas et al **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 23 May 2008 05:32:24 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: C Hooper Subject: Video: Honey Used to Treat Diabetic Ulcers, Allergies, Coughs MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII Video: Honey Used to Treat Diabetic Ulcers, Allergies, Coughs Sweet Remedy Could Treat Variety of Ailments By Sylvia Perez, ABC 7 (USA), 5/22/2008 http://apitherapy.blogspot.com/2008/05/video-honey-used-to-treat-diabetic.html Honey is now being used to treat a long list of ailments including stubborn diabetic ulcers. And some people swear by its ability to lessen seasonal allergies... **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 23 May 2008 08:40:44 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Roni Subject: Re: To Cure a Bee Sting=?Windows-1252?Q?=85?= MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="Windows-1252"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Joe, A Mennonite friend told me of this one that they use, I have used it several times and it does work. Take bleach and put a little on a cotton ball and apply it to the sting area. I seriously don't recommend doing this for anyone who has chemical sensitivities. Some people are allergic to bleach. After dabbing it with bleach, I also use another old Mennonite remedy called "Union Salve" made by Lute Remedies in Ohio, USA. It is an ointment used for minor burns and non-posionous insect bites. Works great on burns and bites. Roni **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 23 May 2008 09:06:29 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Zachary_Huang?= Subject: Re: How does Fumagilin works? Comments: To: Aaron Morris Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit The spores do germinate normally inside the bee gut. the harpoon like structure (polar filament) only injects sporoplasm into the host cells. The nucleus then go through vegetative reproduction to produce more cells, which then become spores. Fumagillin disrupts DNA replication (the process of one become many cells), so no new spores are produced. so the life cycle of nosema is disrupted. The detailed mechanism is not clear, one paper says it disrupts DNA/RNA function, another paper mentions another (I do not remember the details, read about 14 years ago). Note, however, that fumagillin does not do anything to the spores that are sitting inside wax, or honey. It works *ONLY* after the spores are ingested and germinated inside the bees. It can remove spores (from the pool) only if bees eat the spores during the period that fumidil is inside the hive (and available for bees to eat) and stays effective. Once fumidil loses its effectiveness, or fumidil-honey is gone, any spores that are still in the colony can start more infections. Zachary Huang, beetographer http://www.beetography.com **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 23 May 2008 11:39:03 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Jerry Wallace Subject: Re: To Cure a Bee Sting=?utf-8?Q?=E2=80=A6?= In-Reply-To: <002c01c8bcd2$382fcd30$0101a8c0@YOUR75B8ED0EE6> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Cut a large slice of onion and bind over the sting site. **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 23 May 2008 12:19:25 -0400 Reply-To: wwfarm@wctel.net Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Carolyn Ehle Subject: Re: To Cure a Bee Sting=?windows-1252?Q?=85?= In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit J. Waggle wrote: > Hello All, > > I am seeking cures and remedies for bee stings, especially strange obscure > cures. From a strange and obscure, but not an historical source, namely myself: The flowers of honeysuckle (Lonicera japonica) crushed and applied to the sting immediately have surprising powers to cool the pain and prevent swelling. The growing leafy tips of vines will substitute if no flowers are present. It has traditional cooling uses in Oriental medicine. It came to mind after a fellow beekeeper got an ear sting, prone to swelling for him, and I automatically looked for a suitable plant. Growing up in the Virgin Islands papaya (and the protease papain) was always handy and quite effective in denaturing some of the proteins. Honeysuckle is better, tho, and here in South Carolina readily available. I freeze some flowers for the off-season. **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 23 May 2008 09:32:42 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: randy oliver Subject: Re: Pollen In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Hi Mike! > Carbolic acid is still used on fume boards, to clear supers. I haven't used it in decades, but when I began beekeeping, we called the boards "acid boards." Randy Oliver **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 23 May 2008 11:17:31 -0700 Reply-To: k.kellison@earthlink.net Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Kathy Kellison Subject: FW: Beaumont and Honey Bees MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Hi Barry,, I took a crack at it... if you get a chance appreciate you reading over my response and let me know if any of it is incorrect... Thanks, Kathy ----- Original Message ----- From: Kathy Kellison To: dlowell@kfdm.com Sent: 5/23/2008 11:00:41 AM Subject: FW: Beaumont and Honey Bees Dear Mr. Lowell, Innumerable beekeepers, I among them, were disturbed to read your article retelling the needless extermination of a swarm of bees that had congregated under the eave of a Beaumont home. From the reported details, these bees were probably not Africanized, and may have only been temporally using the shelter before scout bees identified a more suitable nesting site. Honey bees that are not Africanized, when swarming are not dangerous, and in fact, an experienced beekeeper could have easily collected this swarm with their bare hands. Given the decline of honey bees, essential to some 16 billion dollars of agricultural revenue, recent media directed at honey bees has been motivated to reflect accurate information when it comes to bees. It appears from this example, your editorial management doesn't share this commitment and would rather propagate misinformation, aimed at stroking public hysteria fueling misconceptions about the behavior of bees. Honey bees swarm when certain conditions arise in the colony. One such condition is overcrowding in the existing nest site. The queen and a contingent of varied aged bees leave the nest to begin a new colony. It is an event that could be indeed termed a "celebration" rather than some harmful threat to humans characterized in your article. A first timer witnessing, to yes thousands of bees, involved in a swarm may be uneasy due to the seemingly disorganization and intense humming created by so many bees flying at the same time, but the bees quickly settle down because the queen's oversized body in proportion to her wing size does not allow her to fly for very long. "Boxing" a honey bee swarm, hardly ever results in anyone getting stung, perhaps because the bees have no brood or any other reason to be defensive. In fact, when I am called to a swarm, on lookers learn that they can gently touch a collection of bees clustered from a branch or similar support,like the innocuous cluster pictured, without any potential of being stung. Unfortunately, most of the general public involved in a stinging incident, may not even have been stung by a honey bee. If they were, it is probably because they panicked and alarmed the bee that was only resting on her way home to the colony full of nectar and loaded with pollen in her collection baskets on her legs. Many stinging incidents are attributable to yellow jackets or wasps, instead of honey bees. I believe you will be getting a few more responses to your article similar to mine. I hope you will consider running another piece on honey bees, more thoroughly researched, with tips to your readers about responding to honey bees, situations involving swarms and one that reflects a more objective representation of honey bees' behavior and along with their irreplaceable role in production of a third of our food pallet in addition to essential underpinning of heathy ecosystems world wide. If I can be a resource to you, please do not hesitate to contact me, Thank you for your consideration, Kathy Kellison 707-321-4711 Executive Director Partners for Sustainable Pollination k.kellison@earthlink.net **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 23 May 2008 16:28:57 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Brian Fredericksen Subject: NASS chemical use database discontinued Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit http://www.thedailygreen.com/environmental-news/pesticide-data-program-cut-44052108 Every year the USDA's National Agricultural Statistics Service (NASS) conducts research on pesticide use and risk associated with various crops, such as corn, soybeans, cotton, and wheat, and the body then releases its data files. That data is used by chemical groups, trade groups, public interest groups and government agencies to track pesticide use and safety, and several advocates say it is the only reliable, publicly searchable database of its kind. In 2007, however, the USDA scaled back its data collection, and only gathered information on cotton, apples and organic apples. Now, the USDA has announced it will completely eliminate the program in 2008, due to budget cuts, and won't be collecting any data. This has many people concerned. Letters to the secretary of agriculture have been signed by the various groups who rely on the USDA's information, including public interest groups such as Greenpeace, NRDC, the Organic Center and the World Wildlife Fund, and industry groups such as Syngenta Crop Protection, Inc., Del Monte Foods and the American Soybean Association. "It is almost unprecedented to have these diverse interests and stakeholders be on the same side of the issue, including the EPA and federal agencies," said Jennifer Sass, a senior scientist with the NRDC. It might seem obvious that public interest groups would want to track safety trends. But why would industry organizations be bothered that data is unavailable to the public? Charles Benbrook, a senior scientist with the Organic Center, says "Commodity organizations recognize that without the USDA data they are vulnerable to claims by a variety of parties about pesticide use in their crops." The data also allows farmers to see if they are having issues with a certain pest for a given crop. While the USDA is blaming budget cuts for the elimination, others aren't so sure funding is the issue. Bill Freese, senior policy analyst with the Center for Food Safety, said, "It's a really serious blow to efforts to improve the safety of our agriculture. The USDA claims it doesn't have funding, but that's no excuse. If you want to do it, you make it a priority and you get it done." Freese added that this is an even greater concern now because there has been an upsurge in recent years in pesticide use on genetically modified (GM) crops. It is interesting to note the one big name conspicuously absent from the letters to the secretary of agriculture: Monsanto. The chemical giant produces Roundup Ready seeds, which are bred to be resistant to Monsanto's Roundup herbicides, the active ingredient of which is Glyphosate. Benbrook finds the USDA's actions curious at a time when herbicide use on Roundup Ready crops has increased: "The 2007 data would have shown an enormous increase in the pounds of herbicides applied on Roundup Ready crops, especially soybeans. The farm media has been full of stories over the past few years of the problems farmers are facing as weeds become resistant to Glyphosate and other herbicides. I find it curious that at the time of peak interest and need for solid information on pesticide use in soybeans that the Department of Agriculture has decided to stop collecting the data. I wouldn't be surprised if there was some quiet lobbying done by Monsanto to let the program lapse." While it won't be possible to go back and collect the data for 2007, Benbrook and others are hoping the USDA comes to its senses, and collects critical data on corn, soybeans, wheat and cotton for 2008. **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 23 May 2008 18:31:04 -0400 Reply-To: bee-quick@bee-quick.com Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: James Fischer Subject: Re: Steve Tabor MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit One of the neat things about an obscure field like beekeeping is that one can attend meetings and sit beside the giants upon whose shoulders we stand so that we can see further. Steve was one of those giants. Most of us have no idea how often we have climbed upon his shoulders. I was lucky enough to be able to thank him once. **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 23 May 2008 15:33:18 -0700 Reply-To: k.kellison@earthlink.net Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Kathy Kellison Subject: FW: [Pollinator] Pesticide Ban in Germany MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII > > Here are links to 2 articles about approval of a pesticide being suspended > in Germany as a result of bee deaths. > > http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2008/may/23/wildlife.endangeredspecies > > http://www.allheadlinenews.com/articles/7011025746 > > > **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 23 May 2008 15:51:48 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: bman140 Subject: Re: Interesting Article of a Swarm of Bees In-Reply-To: <939344.33309.qm@web83102.mail.mud.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I don't know about any standard practice to kill swarms in this area. I do know that I get a lot of calls to collect swarms. I think the big practice is 'if you pay me I'll spray them'. Although I've talked to a lot of people who called an exterminator before calling me about swarms and bees in houses. It seems that most exterminators don't want to kill honeybees. But that's just my take from what I've heard. Ed **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 23 May 2008 17:32:12 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: John Edwards Subject: Re: Steve Taber In-Reply-To: <22805949.1211470105210.JavaMail.root@m03> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit As somebody who had the honor of being fired by him once, I'm sad also. I worked either for or near him from 1964 till his retirement in the mid-1970s. Nobody knew the literature like S.T. III. Wherever his old grandfather clock is, I'm sure it is still set on 4:30, "Beer-drinking-time in the valley", as he always said. Turn down an empty glass. - John Edwards Aaron Morris wrote: **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 23 May 2008 21:21:45 -0400 Reply-To: bee-quick@bee-quick.com Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: James Fischer Subject: Re: Fwd: [BEE-L] Fumidil MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dick Allen said: >>> Now about what Mussen has "clearly" said, he does >>> CLEARLY say in his newsletter... Enough speculation and putting words in other people's mouths. Let's ask Eric. Here's what I asked Eric: >> So, did you or did you not suggest that mixtures of >> Fumadil-B be sprayed onto bees (rather than fed) as >> an approach to treating one or both of the types of >> Nosema being found in US colonies? His reply is below, in full, below the dashed line. Please note that he makes very clear: a) That we don't even know if Nosema ceranae even >>CAN<< be treated with the Fumagillin we've been using for Nosema apis, regardless of how it might be administered. b) That Nosema ceranae may be having a negligible impact on colonies it infects, proven by the fact that some non-trivial number of "infected" colonies have built up to the point of swarming, proving that they are "robust", despite infection. c) That they STILL ARE CONDUCTING STUDIES on spray applications. There's simply no data to know one way or the other if spraying has any positive impact. d) Given that they are "still conducting studies", it is no surprise at all that Eric advises caveat emptor saying "It is up to the consumer to determine..." Gee, that's not a very strong endorsement, now is it? It is up to us? Gee, even though he is an expert in this exact specialty? He won't even guess for us? That says a lot to me. e) That it is "difficult" for him, the go-to guy on Nosema for at least the USA, perhaps the entire planet, to make "'recommendations' at this point in time". Sounds like he'd rather not advocate spraying right now. f) That we do not know at what levels of infection treatments are necessary g) That we do not know what (if any) treatments will adequately control the pathogen. Offhand, I'd say that these are very important things to hear. Much more important than assuming that he is advocating spray Fumagillin treatments, when he is (once again) simply repeating what he has heard and being very very careful to avoid advocating anything. Below is his full reply. ================================================================= As you are aware, my advice when using any pesticide or antibiotic is to follow the label instructions. (Fumagillin actually is not a registered product in the U.S., but it can be used under a sort of memorandum of understanding between the U.S. and Canadian governments.) At this point in time, the Medivet label has special instructions for Spring use with /Nosema ceranae/. They include increased dosage rates and smaller volumes of syrup at short time intervals compared to the way we controlled /Nosema apis/. Since I wrote the article, I have received "labeling" with the verbiage quoted by Randy, below. I have been in contact with the company, and they still are conducting studies with spray applications. It is up to the consumer to determine how things are progressing in his or her colonies and to react accordingly. If it is determined that the bees are not taking feed, then using a spray application will leave a lot of syrup on the top bars, where it eventually will evaporate or ferment, unless it is sprayed directly on the bees frame by frame, similar to the instructions for Sucrocide. The Spanish procedure puts ALL the syrup directly on the bees without handling the frames. I see nothing wrong with disseminating the Spanish researchers' opinion that a "drench" application, directly on the bees, between the combs gave them the best results. They feel that is a necessary manner in which to deal with the disease when the bees lose their appetites and will not take the medicated syrup from a feeder. Therefore, if the bees appear not to be taking the syrup from the feeder, then a drench application may be necessary. jhf > People are worried about the Nosema issue. Some are jhf > willing to try anything, as the general impression jhf > is that nothing is working. /Nosema ceranae/ is showing up in colonies that were treated in the manner consistent with the excellent control we used to get against /Nosema apis/. The exact consequence of the presence of the pathogen has yet to be determined (some of those highly infected colonies are swarming) and studies on control are just getting under way. Thus, it is extremely difficult to make "recommendations" at this point in time, since we do not know at what levels of infection treatments are necessary and what treatments will adequately control the pathogen. I hope this better explains my position on the use of fumagillin in nosema disease control. ================================================================= **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 25 May 2008 05:01:16 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: C Hooper Subject: Britain's Honeybee Could Be Extinct Within a Decade MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII Britain's Honeybee Could Be Extinct Within a Decade So What's Plan Bee? By Simon Garfield, The Observer (UK), 5/25/2008 http://apitherapy.blogspot.com/2008/05/britains-honeybee-could-be-extinct.html They are nature's most productive workers, the farmer's friend and the essence of wholesome country life. But within a decade Britain's honeybee could be extinct. Simon Garfield meets the keepers battling a killer disease that's already wiped out a third of America's colonies - and now threatens our own... **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 24 May 2008 08:17:11 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "Peter L. Borst" Subject: At the end of all our exploring MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline "Controversy is a very vital part of the scientific process," says Roger Gosden, an ovarian expert at Weill Cornell Medical School in New York City. "It's the critical nature of science which gives it its strength and authority." "What anyone publishes is not really the corpus of scientific knowledge unless it can be verified," says Gosden. "You don't get a paradigm change until you have a consensus of expert opinion," he says. Gosden agrees the controversy has cast a spotlight on new questions that would not have been investigated otherwise. And he doesn't see any harm in revisiting the dogma with new technologies, quoting T.S. Eliot's poem Little Gidding, At the end of all our exploring Will be to arrive where we started And know the place for the first time. -- Peter L Borst Danby, NY USA 42.35, -76.50 http://picasaweb.google.com/peterlborst **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 24 May 2008 07:33:55 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "Peter L. Borst" Subject: Sheer number of compounds in hives MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Support for Dean's argument: Penn State researchers are making progress in pinning down the cause or causes of Colony Collapse Disorder (CCD), a mysterious ailment that threatens the beekeeping industry and the crops and native plants that rely on honey bees for pollination. In fall 2007, a team led by Diana Cox-Foster, professor of entomology, reported a strong correlation between CCD and the presence of Israeli acute paralysis virus, making the pathogen a prime suspect in the disease. Since that time, researchers have introduced IAPV to healthy honey bee colonies in a controlled greenhouse environment in an effort to induce a collapse. "Within one week of introducing the virus, we observed dramatic bee mortality, with bees dying outside the colonies across the room in the greenhouse," said Cox-Foster. "Bees were found on the floor with paralytic-type movements, and guard bees were observed removing paralytic bees from colonies and flying across the room. The majority of these 'twitcher' bees were found to have IAPV." Cox-Foster noted that within a month, infected colonies had declined to small clusters of bees, many of which had lost their queens. "These data indicate that IAPV is a highly pathogenic virus," she said. "But they do not yet support a finding of IAPV as the sole cause of Colony Collapse Disorder. We still suspect that additional stresses are needed to trigger CCD." Among the potential triggers being investigated are environmental chemicals. Penn State scientists analyzing pollen, wax, adult bees and brood (larvae) have found the presence of dozens of chemicals, including pesticides used by agricultural producers to protect crops and by beekeepers to control hive pests such as parasitic mites. "This raises several complicated questions," said Maryann Frazier, senior extension associate in entomology. "Some of these compounds could react with each other to cause toxic effects or could combine with viruses or poor nutrition to weaken immunity and cause colony collapse. We also need to do more research to understand these chemicals' sub-lethal effects on bees." Though the role of chemicals in Colony Collapse Disorder is still unknown, Frazier noted that beekeepers need more options for controlling varroa mites so they can reduce their reliance on chemicals. "With the sheer number of compounds we're finding in hives, it's hard to believe that pesticides aren't contributing to the general decline in bee health," she said. -- Peter L Borst Danby, NY USA 42.35, -76.50 http://picasaweb.google.com/peterlborst **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 23 May 2008 10:31:58 GMT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "waldig@netzero.com" Subject: Re: Colonies in Cinder Block Commercial Buildlings Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Thank you, Ralph. Coning out the bees is certainly a way to go. It's only major shortcoming is one almost never gets the queen. Getting just the bees is of little to no interest to me - I have no problem raising my hive numbers or overwintering successfully - but I savor collecting feral queens for evaluation. I met with the building's manager yesterday and, in fact, there are two separate colonies of bees. Their entries into the cinder blocks are immediately below the I-beam at the roof line. I told the manager he had 3 options: 1. co-exist with the bees and thus think of themselves as being a green company 2. seal the entry cracks with mortar and entomb the bees 3. have me and his maintenance wiz on their scissor list remove the cinder blocks one by one and remove the colony in its entirety Option 3, of course, is of the most interest to me. The way cinder block get stacked in a wall, I think, creates long 'chimneys.' Unless the bees can cross-over from one chimney to the next and next, the combs are most likely very narrow and run deep down the inside of the walls. I'd love to see how the bees utilized this aspect ration of a narrow cavity to set up the nest combs... Waldemar Hi Waldemar; I have trapped several colonies out of cinder block walls. You have to use the cone method of trapping with a hive hanging next to the cone. This will take six weeks (two life cycles). This is what you will need to do the job. Access to the roof. Lots of rope to hang the hive body next to the cone. You and tie it to air conditioners or other structures on the roof or use a stack of cinder blocks as a mounting point. I onde used a spare tire with cinder blocks on top. A frame to hold the hive body. Make one out of wood in the shape of a L and put the hive on the bottom of the L. **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 23 May 2008 22:52:50 -0700 Reply-To: deelusbybeekeeper@yahoo.com Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dee Lusby Subject: Ozone Decontamination at Logan, Utah for combs with chemical contamination MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Okay, Since treatments are supposed to be done according to most labels with the honey supers off.........and applied in the broodnest area, how does one decontaminate the broodcombs with Ozone decontamination, without destroying the stored pollen, syrups or honey makeing the food worthless to the bees? Are beekeepers being told or going to be told all the food in deadouts then needs to be washed out somehow? Would appreciate explaintion back for workability since I think NHB money is being spent on this for a decontamination method that I don't see workable.... Dee A. Lusby **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 23 May 2008 17:49:04 GMT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "waldig@netzero.net" Subject: Re: Bees in cinder blocks... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Thank you, Ralph. Coning out the bees is certainly a way to go. It's only major shortcoming is one almost never gets the queen. Getting just the bees is of little to no interest to me - I have no problem raising my hive numbers or overwintering successfully - but I savor collecting feral queens for evaluation. I met with the building's manager yesterday and, in fact, there are two separate colonies of bees. Their entries into the cinder blocks are immediately below the I-beam at the roof line. I told the manager he had 3 options: 1. co-exist with the bees and thus think of themselves as being a green company 2. seal the entry cracks with mortar and entomb the bees 3. have me and his maintenance wiz on their scissor list remove the cinder blocks one by one and remove the colony in its entirety Option 3, of course, is of the most interest to me. The way cinder block get stacked in a wall, I think, creates long 'chimneys.' Unless the bees can cross-over from one chimney to the next and next, the combs are most likely very narrow and run deep down the inside of the walls. I'd love to see how the bees utilized this aspect ration of a narrow cavity to set up the nest combs... Waldemar **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 23 May 2008 23:01:39 -0700 Reply-To: deelusbybeekeeper@yahoo.com Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dee Lusby Subject: Re: Carbolic acid (was Pollen) In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Peter Borst writes: > Bees have been fed cane sugar for over a hundred years with > no apparent ill effect. Many formulae for pollen substitutes have been > tried for about as long Reply: Yes there has been and written about by USDA in phamplet form too about how thing go down hill after a certain amount of time/usage compared to the real stuff. Also, it's only recently in past few years all honey and pollen has been removed or taken in such quantity as to make sugar and pollen substitutes main diet, instead of real food of honey and pollen the main diet, and that in today's world does seem to be changing things, for the way bees are being maintained with all the problems being talked about. Dee A. Lusby **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 24 May 2008 04:24:11 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: C Hooper Subject: Study: Manuka Honey Dressings Decrease Wound pH, Size MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII Study: Manuka Honey Dressings Decrease Wound pH, Size The Impact of Manuka Honey Dressings on the Surface pH of Chronic Wounds International Wound Journal, Volume 5 Issue 2 Page 185-194, May 2008 http://apitherapy.blogspot.com/2008/05/study-manuka-honey-dressings-decrease.html Chronic non healing wounds have an elevated alkaline environment. The acidic pH of Manuka honey makes it a potential treatment for lowering wound pH, but the duration of effect is unknown. Lowering wound pH can potentially reduce protease activity, increase fibroblast activity and increase oxygen release consequently aiding wound healing... **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 24 May 2008 11:44:47 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dick Allen Subject: Re: Fwd: [BEE-L] Fumidil Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Dr. Fischer in spite of your long-winded diatribe, how does any of what you’ve unproductively spent a good deal of your time pecking away on your computer have to do with what you originally wrote about feeding fumigillan to bees? Do bees not consume the feed that is given to them by either spraying (according to label instructions) or drenching (NOT according to label instructions)? I invite you to go back to the earlier thread so that you can read and refresh your mind on what you originally wrote about spraying and feeding. Regards, Dick Allen **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 May 2008 12:17:18 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: Re: Fwd: [BEE-L] Fumidil In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Now about what Mussen has "clearly" said, he does CLEARLY say in his > newsletter: "that worker > honey bees infected with Nosema ceranae apparently will not take feed, > either syrup or patty. > Thus, the bees have to have the medicated syrup applied onto their bodies > to force them to clean > themselves off and take their medicine." I find it interesting that when I said the above 3 months ago the list cried foul! At least now the list has caught up with those on the front lines. The above has been standard practice in commercial operations for months. Lately I tire of trying to bring industry news first on BEE-L. I also will say that even the recommendations of Eric Mussen will not cure severe cases of nosema ceranae. However some commercial beeks have found the right combination. bob -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 24 May 2008 14:48:31 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Zachary_Huang?= Subject: Swarm led by a virgin queen Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Swarm led by a virgin queen (or how one colony becomes five). The first beekeeping story by Zachary Huang My 3 colonies in my backyard became on in March, the other 2 died (one died around Feb). The one remaining was particularly strong when I checked in early May. Because on May 9th I had to go to Hastings, MI to show bees to about 375 students, so I removed 2 frames with sealed brood, shook some bees, put them into a separate box, and introduced a new queen to them (caged) on May 6th. The new queen came from one of the 40 nucs I bought, three of them by accident had free queens in them and two caged queens died. This one was a survivor (despite her colony had another free running queen). I separated the original box (2 medium, 1 deep) into two since they had like 8 frames of sealed brood (one deep and one medium). This was my way of swarm control. One (A) had a deep (and I introduced a mitezapper for them to build up wax on the drone comb, bees almost finished one side today), another (B) had 2 mediums. I made sure both sides had eggs and larvae (so either of them can build emergency queen cells) and did not look for the old queen. So this colony became three since the observation hive (C) was later given to the bug house at MSU. It has been unusually cold in MI this spring. It feels like March/April the last few weeks and it finally warmed up to 70s the last couple days. Larry, my retired neighbor came knocking at my door around 11 am and told me a colony was swarming…I thought that was not possible! (I just made a three-way split 3 weeks ago!). I went out and indeed saw thousands of bees flying in air (they seem to have come out of colony B). We saw them before they have settled yet. Two of us standing among the flying bees and talking and bees just ignored us (wish I had my camera and asked someone else to shoot us pics). We watched until they finally settled on a tree branch near a pile of trees he pruned. Slowly bees clustered after about 30 min. I brought a hivebody and shook the bees to the frames, but they clustered outside and refused to go in. I played with the bees with my bare hands showing Larry how gentle they are when they are swarming. Then I saw the queen (she was outside among the pile of bees I grabbed). She looked like a virgin! I remarked. Larry joked “do you want me to do anything to her?” Ron, Larry’s friend was laughing wildly at 20 ft away. He honked at Larry’s driveway and Larry took him to the bees about 5 min before that. He said he was allergic to bees because he was stung by a “bee” on the golf course once and refused to be close, even after I showed him my bees were totally gentle by scooping with my hands, without a veil. I told Larry I would be back and check my A and B hives. I went home, had lunch (my daughter and wife had cooked spaghetti together), then asked him to watch me. Larry had been “having” bees at his farm for a few years but has not even seen the queen once. He does not spend a lot of time with his bees (me neither, but I at least check mine a couple of times a year). He said he would join me in a few minutes after he had his veil. I waited for 20 min and he was not showing up. So I started shooting some flowers in my back yard (with my Nikon D80). Irises, strawberries (3-4 with red flowers. Most were white, no bees). Then I was shooting near the maple tree. I do not know what kind of maple it is, but it is in full bloom today, at least 2 weeks after others are done. Low and behold, honey bees! I got excited and started shooting. Just this spring I complained to people in my lab that I know bees use maple flowers, but why I have never seen bees on them? I even brought my camera to the campus a few times, search for bees on maples. I did see many solitary bees flying up high, but did not notice honey bees. Today there were about 6-9 bees on the tree, most of them high but the tree is only 10 ft tall. So I did manage to get a few shots. Larry finally showed up. I said I would check hive A first. I thought it had no queen since hive B was way more active the last 2 weeks. I saw 3 solid frames of sealed brood and a few uncapped larvae. I told Larry the queen must be here in hive A. I said hive B swarmed with a virgin! Then Larry saw the original queen (pretty good eyes for a 70 year old guy, and only 1 hr ago he was showing a virgin queen, for the first time in his life). I said I wanted to clip her so she won’t swarm away. Larry hopped back to his house (one of his knees has been messed up last few days), and brought about a “small” pair of scissors. It looked pretty big to me. I clipped her and said I was thinking give him some bees to start up his dead colonies (since he noticed my swarm). But I said I had to make sure hive B has enough queen cells. The first frame I took out had like 9 cells, with 3 of them emerged and then we saw another virgin running around. I was wondering why the first queen did not destroy other cells, then remembered the first virgin probably swarmed away with the bees (about 10,000 workers, which became colony D). I put that first frame with many cells to hive A (after putting the virgin back to hive B) since the old queen will be giving away to Larry (colony D). A 2nd frame, 2 more cells. I used my hive tool to open the cells to see the status of the queens, queens were eclosed inside but showed no signs of chewing out! As I went to more frames, we popped like 6 queen cells, all queens ran out quickly, except one had a dead worker with her head pointing in the wrong way so she died because sh could not get out (well, the cell should be big enough for her to turn around? It was her own cocoon so she should be able to chew out? Why not? I wondered). I wanted to take a photo since I have seen this before but no photo to “prove” myself. I have my camera next to me, but the worker must have rolled away and we could not find er. I took a few photos of those virgins (some here being chased by workers). Wondering how the workers would “decide” to swarm with the first virgin…they did not really plan it ahead since there was no cells when I made the three way split on May 6th. All these cells are clearly emergency cells I saw today (18 days since the spit). Because hive B has so many virgins (I did not kill a single one, thinking maybe nature can do a better job), I transferred 2 virgins to colony A and they seem to be accepted. It makes me wonder if the queens are all staying inside cells because there was some communication from the two-also virgins that emerged…(were they planning to have an afterswarm? The colony did not seem particular strong, or crowded after the first swarm). Or was it merely coincidence that the queens just all hatched and not having time yet to chew out? I bet the 6 also cells also had queens eclosed inside the cells, but I did not go back and check. Larry went back, got his deep hive body (full of honey) and I gave two deep frames, both with capped brood and bees, the clipped old queen and then shook more bees into the “nuc”. I said 2 weeks ago I paid $50 for 3 frames of bees and a queen and this one I am giving you is about the same strength. He said “Zach, I will reimburse you then.” I said no, you “caught” my swarm so I am giving you this as a reward. I would be less work for me to give him my newly caught swarm…But perhaps subconsciously I wanted to keep an eye on it since it has a virgin (she could get eaten by birds during a mating flight) so I did not give it to him? I was not really thinking when I made the decision. So not bad, I lost 2 out of 3, and now one has becoming five (A, B, C the observation hive, D the swarm today, and E the new nuc I gave to Larry). I have one more box to fill in my backyard. Hopefully I can make another split some day and hopefully most of them will be making through the winter. I do not try to make honey from these bees, except the occasional chance to show off my guests by harvesting a frame or two newly capped honey and we use spoons to eat the “comb” honey from it. And I did not even get stung today. Zach, 2:20 pm May 24, 2008. Zachary Huang, Beetographer http://www.beetography.com **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 25 May 2008 05:35:47 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: C Hooper Subject: Video: Chinese Use Bee Venom to Treat Arthritis, Pain MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII Video: Chinese Use Bee Venom to Treat Arthritis, Pain http://apitherapy.blogspot.com/2008/05/video-chinese-use-bee-venom-to-treat.html Clinic in Beijing, China, Uses Bee Venom Therapy to Treat Rheumatism, Arthritis, Pain, Liver Disease, and Cancer **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 25 May 2008 09:42:54 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: =?UTF-8?Q?Peter_Borst?= Subject: Re: Fwd: [BEE-L] Fumidil Comments: To: Bob Harrison Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Bob Harrison wrote: >Lately I tire of trying to bring industry news first on BEE-L. Bob, I am sure I am not the only one who greatly appreciates your participation here. I can even begin to tell you what percentage of what I think "I know" I got from you and/or others here. It's a lot, though. I hope you are not discouraged by the frequent jousting. As I mentioned recently, this is an important part in real scientific inquiry. To take what so and so says on face value and never question it, is suicide. But to fall into indecision and inaction is just as bad or worse. Keep up the good fight! pb **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 25 May 2008 08:45:07 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Zachary_Huang?= Subject: Re: Swarm led by a virgin queen Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Part II of the story. I was thinking…what a waste of lives! Should I simply let these queens fight and one survive? Why not recover them and let them mate in mating nucs? But Monday is memorial day…Around 3:31 pm I went back to my lab, picked up some queen cages, and came back to try to find my virgins…I wish I had thought about this the first time, or I could have gathered some small bottles at home to contain them…if I did that I would have gathered more than 10 of them. I started at hive A, the frame I introduced with 6-7 cells only had one queen cell intact, the rest all emerged…so this colony should have 2 (I transferred them) + 4-5 (emerged between 2:20 and 4 pm). I recovered the one in the cell (like before she started running when I opened the cell), and found 2 more. I killed one by accident (the JZBZ cage cover wont snap back, and I tried too hard and the whole cage bent and the poor virgin died). In hive B I recovered 4! One of them running on the bottom board. I make one more split form B, so this would be the 6th colony (colony F). I finished around 5:30 pm. I spent 2 hrs recovering 7 queens (one dead), if 5 of them successfully mate, it would be $65. I am pretty sure I missed 50% in hive A (4 cells + 2 transferred should be 6 queens) , so I do not worry about that one. Hive B has some larvae left (and should have 2-3 queens that I missed), and I took a frame with eggs to hive F. So all the colonies should be ok (as long as they have eggs, if no virgins are in there, they will raise more emergency cells to raise more queens). I got curious and opened the swarm hive (D) to see if there are multiple queens, but did not even see the one I saw in the morning. By then I was tired and did not want to go through the frames a 2nd or 3rd time. Oh, another strange queen cell I found. This was in hive B, I opened and there is a drone (still pink eyed) pupa! This time I got a photo of it. Yet another cell had a dead larva (pretty small), but the cell was sealed…It looked like too small a larva to spin a cocoon yet…so why sealed so early by workers? I still have a grant to write, so I had to turn down Larry’s invitation to go fishing (I had never fished in his pond before). He said he has caught basses up to 24 inches. Not bad. I got a rain check though. This time I got stung about 5 times… What I learned today: 1). Virgin queens do not kill each other right away, at least not the first few hours. They do not bother to open other queen cells either. I do not know if we know the time line of how soon they do that, 2). Bees do make mistakes, workers develop inside queen cells (why? Too old a larva to become a queen?), and they because normal worker cells are slightly tilted upward (against gravity), of course they would face the wrong direction during pupation, so they die (why not turn around? I guess instinctively they want to chew the upper direction). And 3). Drones develop inside queen cells! Workers apparently made a mistake here, thinking the larva was a female, but actually it was a him! I wonder if the drones are “normal” or not, since royal jelly (assuming that he was fed royal jelly since the cell was pointing downward and also had the queen cell sculpture outside) are slightly different from “drone jelly”. Zachary 5:55 pm. **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 25 May 2008 11:02:33 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: =?UTF-8?Q?Peter_Borst?= Subject: Re: Fwd: [BEE-L] Fumidil Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I wrote: "to fall into indecision and inaction is just as bad or worse". I guess I am getting old, but some of my favorite sayings are like: "whoever is the most sure is probably the most wrong" and "hire a teenager while they still know it all", etc. So, being the most unsure may make me the most correct but also the most useless. Finally, I too have to get back to work because the bills keep coming. Even this internet hookup is expensive, out here in the boondocks. I could do all the same stuff for free up at the library, but I like working at my own desk with sounds of the wood thrush, cardinals, flickers, and all. So in the interest of harmony, "there's more'n one way to skin a cat-fish". pb @ home **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 25 May 2008 08:47:03 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Barry Digman Subject: Re: Bees in cinder blocks... In-Reply-To: <20080523.134904.18627.0@webmail05.dca.untd.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="Windows-1252"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Are you sure that the bees aren't just using the hole in the cinderblock to access a nest that's actually built in the ceiling or roof itself? barry **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 25 May 2008 14:23:03 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Brian Fredericksen Subject: Re: Sheer number of compounds in hives Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit >Though the role of chemicals in Colony Collapse Disorder is still >unknown, Frazier noted that beekeepers need more options for >controlling varroa mites so they can reduce their reliance on >chemicals. Do they really need more options? or do the current workable options not fit into the migratory paradigm box? There is no excuse anymore for using miticides that contaminate combs as we have formic, OA and Apiguard. Further more its clear that the Russian line of bees can withstand mite loads and in general other secondary pests and disease with out external inputs. But the bee movers and feedlot keepers seemingly are uninterested as the shop rag treatments save time and money and the russians are not as easily manipulated into laying eggs every time a bag of sugar is waved in their direction. We have answers but its not the answers that some folks want to accept. **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 25 May 2008 08:41:36 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: randy oliver Subject: Ozone Decontamination at Logan, Utah for combs with chemical contamination In-Reply-To: <3dcef4a10805250837i69159822mcfd7b917674e5f5@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline >how does one decontaminate the broodcombs with Ozone decontamination, without destroying the stored pollen, syrups or honey makeing the food worthless to the bees? Would be the same as going back to new clean combs. What's the matter with that? Randy Oliver **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 25 May 2008 09:03:33 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Barry Digman Subject: Re: FW: Beaumont and Honey Bees Comments: To: k.kellison@EARTHLINK.NET In-Reply-To: <380-220085523181731906@earthlink.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The response seems fine. I would be cautious about giving the impression that bees won't sting while swarming. Beekeepers understand that they're typically pretty calm while swarming, but as soon as you offer that assessment to someone with no experience you just know they're going to get nailed. barry **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 25 May 2008 23:28:32 -0700 Reply-To: deelusbybeekeeper@yahoo.com Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dee Lusby Subject: Re: Sheer number of compounds in hives In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Brian: > There is no excuse anymore for using miticides that > contaminate combs as we have formic, OA and > Apiguard. Reply: Sorry, I am not buying this statement either by you,as too many beekeepers using acids in Europe and Nordic States are having problems,be it year one or year three in their usage......acids are just as wrong as other treatments, and in my opinion probably worse in the long haul for killing beneficial microorganisms needed within our beehives in co-existant parameters, plus hurting the bees themselves, by killing young brood, negating eggs freshly laid, burning wounds into our poor bees bodies on soft exoskelton besides internal breathing passages and muscles adjacent theretoo.......and I am not even talking eyes and hearing passages for flight in field that could be modified due to acid usage, but who is looking? Dee A. Lusby **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 25 May 2008 23:35:12 -0700 Reply-To: deelusbybeekeeper@yahoo.com Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dee Lusby Subject: Re: Ozone Decontamination at Logan, Utah for combs with chemical contamination In-Reply-To: <3dcef4a10805250841i21d190e8qba8ad9f391fec052@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Randy Oliver: Geee, glad you asked what's the matter what that? For if decontamination is for dead equipment sitting with stores of honey and pollen and syrups therein that has been negated out.........then how do beekeepers get the stuff with NO NUTRITIONAL VALUE OUT OF THE COMBS TO REUSE THEM? 1. Wash?????............explain how this is cost effective with decontamination added vs then simply using new small cell that is clean? 2. Extract somehow and sell a NO NUTRITIONAL VALUE PRODUCT........AND have everyone turn heads and look away while sold to public or to feed lots or other, for I cannot see commercial then dumping and bulldozing into ground!!! Yet the treatments if done properly to get to this stage is supposedly with honey supers off and treatments in broodnest area only.......or am I wrong for thinking this??? Comments anyone? Dee A. Lusby **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 25 May 2008 23:41:11 -0700 Reply-To: deelusbybeekeeper@yahoo.com Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dee Lusby Subject: Re: Bees in cinder blocks... In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Bees do build nice colonies in cinder blocks and/or 88's fwiw. Have taken out many in past, but in doing so used a pickax and sledge hammer to get to bees....along with cement cutting blade in circular saw taking time. For you cut the groove first and then with pick ax and sledge hammer then take out the cement as best you can.... But they do go up and down the insides of the blocks and perhaps reason why some many nowadays are filled in with cement and foam anymore, so no space available. Dee A. LUsby **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 May 2008 12:03:35 GMT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "waldig@netzero.com" Subject: Re: Bees in cinder blocks... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit >>Are you sure that the bees aren't just using the hole in the cinder block to access a nest that's actually built in the ceiling or roof itself? Yes, this a typical warehouse building in this area. Steel construction with cinder block walls. The nests at the roof line with entrances between the top I-beam that supports the roof and the top course of the cinder blocks, right over the loading docks. Inside the cinder block walls are bare and and the I-beam is exposed. No sign of bees inside the building. The ceiling inside is the standard corrugated/wave sheet metal construction that is bare from inside. On top is a flat, black tar roof that gets extremely hot in the summer. I've head a couple of cases where bees would go through the cinder block and right into a 2-4 stud wall but unfortunately this is not the case here. I have never taken colonies out of cinder blocks and frankly was surprised the bees found the narrow channels sufficiently large for a nest cavity [& overwintered successfully!]. Waldemar **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 May 2008 12:26:36 GMT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "waldig@netzero.com" Subject: Re: Fwd: [BEE-L] Fumidil Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit >>Lately I tire of trying to bring industry news first on BEE-L. I hope you never tire to the point of stopping. Your contributions brings a welcome balance to this forum. At the moment, science is failing to provide an explanation of the root causes and remedies/guidelines for what is afflicting the colonies. 'Multi-factorial' & 'migratory practices' does not quite resolve the issue. Science still has a long way to go to explain how to maintain healthy colonies. In the meantime, I feel for the commercial beekeepers trying to make a living with thousands of colonies that periodically dwindle. Can't blame them for experimentation and trying to come up with solutions. I can't condone off-label applications but I understand their desperation. Waldemar **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 25 May 2008 21:20:09 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: randy oliver Subject: Flat worker brood cappings MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Hi All, These past couple of years I've noticed that some colonies have sealed worker brood that is flat to slightly sunken when you look across it, rather than the normal slightly convex curve of each capping. The flatness is uniform across entire frames of sealed brood--not just the occasional cell. The pupae look healthy, although it appears to happen mostly in colonies that aren't thriving. Is this a natural variation that I simply haven't noticed before, or is it something unusual? Anyone else observing this? Randy Oliver **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 May 2008 10:39:45 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: =?UTF-8?Q?Peter_Borst?= Subject: Re: africanized bee questions Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit David Westervelt, Environmental Specialist from Florida spoke about the Africanized Honey Bee and how they are dealing with them. He stated that there were no pure line yellow (European) Honey Bees found in their tests (indicating mixing with AHB). •Beekeepers are marking and clipping their queens. •No beekeepers are permitted to gather swarms or extract bees from structures (all require destroying). •AHB abscond and swarm at will with only 5-6 thousand bees. •They like small (gallon size) cavities (like water meters) and will locate under tree limbs in exposed nests. •Still very defensive of their hives. Public & outside workers must adapt to more vigilance not to stray into bees. •Bee hives restricted to areas away from homes. Source: Guilford County Beekeepers Association **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 May 2008 12:00:14 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "=?windows-1252?Q?J._Waggle?=" Subject: Re: To Cure a Bee Sting=?windows-1252?Q?=85?= Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Carolyn Ehle wrote: >The flowers of honeysuckle (Lonicera japonica)… >Growing up in the Virgin Islands papaya… Thanks Carolyn! I found a few remedies similar to the above listed below. I have found 89 referenced ‘remedies’ so far, to add to my 100 remedies for a bee sting list. ;) “the first thing to do on being stung by a bee is to remove the sting, suck the poison out and compress the skin around the lesion; then cold water should be applied to the sting area and the lesion should be rubbed with onion. Parsley leaves, wormwood, mint, fresh honeysuckle berries, vinegar with water, water with quicklime, volatile alkali or a drop of phenol, Lysol, thymol, are all good for alleviating pain.” (29) "The juice of the ripe berry of the common coral honeysuckle (Lonicera caprifolium) is the best remedy I have ever used for the sting of bees, wasps, hornets, &c.” (30) “The leaves of the trumpet honeysuckle species were ground by chewing and then applied to bee stings.” (31) “Take fresh papaya, and slice off a slice. Apply it to the bee stings for about 1 hour.” (38) Best Wishes, Joe feralbeeproject.com **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 May 2008 12:10:40 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "=?windows-1252?Q?J._Waggle?=" Subject: Re: To Cure a Bee Sting=?windows-1252?Q?=85?= Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Timothy C. Eisele wrote: >tape a penny over the site of the sting. Thanks Tim! I have added the penny remedy to my list. I have found a few obscure remedies that are similar to the penny remedy that may be of interest. This bee sting cure written in 1889, but perhaps has been rooted much earlier. “A silver coin supplied to a bee sting is believed to not only remove the pain but to extract the sting.” (43) Perhaps nowadays, inflation, or rarity of the availability of silver coins necessitates that the coinage used be reduced to the penny. ;) Another bee sting remedy using metal “Don’t scream and howl when stung by a bee, but just run for the shears, or in fact anything in the way of steel. Then press the wound firmly with the steel and the poison will soon come out.” (46) Best Wishes Joe feralbeeproject.com **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 May 2008 19:49:35 GMT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "waldig@netzero.com" Subject: Fw: Honey Bee Removal wanted (White Plains, NY 10603) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Anyone interested in a swarm in White Plains? Waldemar ---------- Forwarded Message ---------- Hello, I'm looking for someone to remove a swarm of honey bees from my front yard. We are in White Plains, NY. The bees are about 4 feet off the ground and are swarming on a front yard fence. The swarm is about 7 inches by 5 inches. We don't know how long it's been there. I already sent you an e-mail where you can view photos of this swarm (Ritz photo link). I'm looking for someone who would remove these bees for free since I'm assuming you could sell them or somehow make a profit off of them. Since honey bees are becoming scarce, we did not want to kill them. Please let me know. (if you can't do it for free, do you know someone who will? Or do you know someone who is closer to White Plains?) My number is (914) 671-4181 My address is ... White Plains, NY 10603. Thanks Robert rwg215@nyu.edu **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 May 2008 20:54:41 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Mike Griggs Subject: Update to the ABJ Digitization Project Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v919.2) Because of a couple of recent contributions I received an update to the Mann Library digitization project for the first volumes of ABJ 1861-1900 from the Director of the LIbrary. Because of Beekeeper contributions we are at 3/4 of the way to the $3000 mark needed to cover the full cost of this scanning/preservation effort. The time consuming process of prepping the first 40 volumes of ABJ is complete (because of the efficiency of bundling more for a single shipment they added an extra 20 volumes). They are shipping all forty volumes after completing the contract with the vendor. This means that we (beek's) get double for half the cost. Once the files are returned, scanned & in digital format, to the library in June (hopefully). It will take the library a month or two to get the materials reworked for viewing. They also plan on reworking the layout of "The Hive and the Honey Bee" for improved navigation of the site to accommodate a user friendly search of volumes, the journals & monographs. So by summers end there should be a great increase in the amount & availability of these materials to beekeepers worldwide. The library staff has been wonderful at accommodating our efforts and beekeepers have been very generous. The outcome has been the largest digitization project of beekeeping literature on the WWW. Your contributions toward this effort are greatly appreciated by all beekeepers present and future. Mike Griggs President Finger Lakes Beekeepers **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 May 2008 22:00:31 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: =?UTF-8?Q?Peter_Borst?= Subject: Re: To Cure a Bee Sting=?UTF-8?Q?=E2=80=A6?= Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit greetings To cure bee stings, I use George Carlin's "Seven Words You Can Never Say on Television" pb **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 May 2008 19:16:43 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: John Edwards Subject: Re: Update to the ABJ Digitization Project In-Reply-To: <16713087.1211854078652.JavaMail.root@m03> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit WOW - I am impressed! What a huge project to tackle! - John Edwards Mike Griggs wrote: > > **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 May 2008 22:26:23 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "Peter L. Borst" Subject: The Case of the Missing Bees MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline The Case of the Missing Bees http://aginfo.psu.edu/psa/08WinSpr/bees.html -- Peter L Borst Danby, NY USA 42.35, -76.50 http://picasaweb.google.com/peterlborst **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 May 2008 23:45:19 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Brian Fredericksen Subject: Re: Sheer number of compounds in hives Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit On Sun, 25 May 2008 23:28:32 -0700, Dee Lusby wrote: >Sorry, I am not buying this statement either by you,as too many beekeepers using acids in Europe and Nordic States are having problems, please cite some references for this important claim you are making. not everyone wants or is able to run AHB in order to deal with mites. **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 27 May 2008 04:17:57 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Chris Slade Subject: Re: africanized bee questions MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 27/05/2008 01:28:19 GMT Standard Time, peterlborst@GMAIL.COM writes: He stated that there were no pure line yellow (European) Honey Bees found in their tests (indicating mixing with AHB). Colour is a poor indicator of race in honeybees. In any case the predominant colour of the bees native to the majority of western and northern Europe is black. Chris **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 May 2008 19:36:24 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: randy oliver Subject: Ozone Decontamination at Logan, Utah for combs with chemical contamination In-Reply-To: <3dcef4a10805261217s2ea2fa7dueedb373cddc83aac@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline >then how do beekeepers get the stuff with NO NUTRITIONAL VALUE OUT OF THE COMBS TO REUSE THEM? Hi Dee, I'm not sure that beekeepers would have to get it out! I have several million little helpers who do the grunt work. They tear down damaged comb, remove mold, dead bees, and old pollen. Sometimes they even encapsulate the stuff that they don't want to handle. As far as the honey, I'm not convinced that there is so much nutritional value to honey above its sugar content, that it would affect bee health, as long as an acid treatment didn't greatly raise the HMF level. After irradiation of AFB combs, bees tear out every bit of AFB-contaminated comb and start afresh. I haven't looked at acid-sterilized comb--has anyone on the List noticed what bees do with the remaining pollen? But again, you may be putting the cart before the horse. Dean clearly stated that he has not demonstrated that formic treated pollen has lessened nutritive value. Indeed, he tested formic on bakers yeast. The experiment that he posted is one that I have my elementary science students do nearly every year ( I do not mean this to be demeaning to Dean in any way--it's a fun experiment--try it!). Except that instead of gloves, we use fermentation locks, so that we can quantify the rate of CO2 production by the yeast by counting the number of bubbles per minute. We treat the syrup with various household chemicals over a range of concentrations, and graph out the CO2 production curve. However, bakers yeast is not the critter that "ferments" pollen into bee bread. Dr Martha Gilliam (1997) found that the microbial composition of pollen changes from when it is collected, then packed into the corbicula, then fermented into bee bread: "Bacillus spp. comprised only 2% of the microbes in floral pollen, increased to 20% in corbicula pollen, and then remained at 11% in bee bread (Gilliam, unpublished). The majority of molds were penicillia, Mucorales, and aspergilli [37]. Floral pollen had the largest num- ber of mold isolates but the fewest species. Floral pollen, corbicular pollen, and bee bread stored over time in comb cells differed in the predominant molds present (Mucor sp. in floral pollen, penicillia in cor- bicular pollen and in bee bread stored for 1 week, aspergilli and penicillia in bee bread stored for 3 weeks, and aspergilli in bee bread stored for 6 weeks). Floral pollen also had the largest number of differ- ent yeast species which decreased in corbicular pollen and bee bread" She also noted the great increase in acidity of pollen due to microbial fermentation. In order to determine the effect of acid fumigation of combs, we must look at the interplay of added acids to those already present (such as lactic). I encourage you and Dean to continue your research along this line (and have just sent Dean some references off list). However, let us not jump to conclusions about the "worthlessness" of pollen and honey in combs after mite treatment before we have some data supporting such claims. Randy Oliver **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 27 May 2008 07:30:04 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "=?windows-1252?Q?J._Waggle?=" Subject: Re: To Cure a Bee Sting=?windows-1252?Q?=E2=80=A6?= Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Peter Borst wrote: >To cure bee stings, I use George Carlin's "Seven Words You Can Never Say on >Television" LOL. Very good! What are those words, PB ? ;) In fact, before I started my list, now stored here… http://mysite.verizon.net/vzeod3nx/id10.html I remember reading remedy from 19c that stated… “The first thing to do when stung by a bee is scream and curse…” But I failed to save it, I will find it again one day, and add this great remedy to the list. Joe **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 27 May 2008 05:16:19 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: C Hooper Subject: Review: Use of Medical Honey in Wound Care MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII Review: Use of Medical Honey in Wound Care Medical Honey for Wound Care-Still the 'Latest Resort'? Evidence-based Complementary and Alternative Medicine, January 7, 2008 http://apitherapy.blogspot.com/2008/05/review-use-of-medical-honey-in-wound.html In this review, we put our clinical experience into a broader perspective to comment on the use of medical honey in wound care... **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 27 May 2008 12:23:28 GMT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "waldig@netzero.com" Subject: Re: Bees in cinder blocks... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit >>Have taken out many in past, but in doing so used a pickax and sledge hammer to get to bees....along with cement cutting blade in circular saw taking time. How many hours would a job like this take? >>But they do go up and down the insides of the blocks... Did you find thay can only fit two parallel combs in the small cavities? What was the largest span nest you ever retrieved from cinder blocks (I imagine a nest in such small cavities could extend many feet)? Waldemar **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 27 May 2008 08:24:55 -0300 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Thomas Kaechele Subject: Ozone decontamination MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi, people Getting along the line of DECONTAMINATION of hive materials with ozone, has anyone thought about the STERYLIZATION of the materials after the bees left the hives? We don´t know yet what causes CCD, but it would be a sound measure to sterylize ALL MATERIAL including the combs from "healthy" hives, before you put them on other hives. After all, there are a lot of microorganisms affecting bees, which are not lethal, but still can weaken them, and afect their productivity. Ozone is a cheap, non destructive, cold, and very efficient sterylization method. It has been well proven in chirurgical materials. Why not use it instead of acetic acid, or whatever has been used in the last years? Is there some experience on the subject? Thomas Kaechele Praderas de San José San José Uruguay praderas@gmail.com **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 27 May 2008 14:58:08 GMT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "deknow@netzero.net" Subject: Re: Ozone Decontamination at Logan, Utah for combs with chemic al contamination Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit -- randy oliver wrote: Dean clearly stated that he has not demonstrated that formic treated pollen has lessened nutritive value. >>randy, you are correct, but a few dots need to be connected here. martha gilliam's research clearly states that the nutrition in the hive is dependent on microorganism activity. in fact, it is an interesting comparison of data to read martha gilliam talk about the fermentation starting when the bees collect the pollen (with microbes from their honey stomaches), and the data from penn state (maryann frazier) that states that pollen is contaminated with fluvalinate and coumaphos in the process of being collected by the bees. >>also worth noting is the claims made about formic acid: >>from: http://www.ars.usda.gov/SP2UserFiles/ad_hoc/53420300WesternApiculturalSociety/WAS_Spring_2 007.pdf "Not only does it work effectively to kill off parasitic mites, formic acid (the active ingredient) has been proven to be a formidable bactericide, fungicide and anti viral agent." >>and >>from: http://www.miteaway.com/html/mite_awayii.php "formic acid is a very toxic substance to everything living" >>unless you don't believe that microbial activity has anything to do with nutrition in honeybees wrt pollen, it would be hard to imagine that formic acid has _no_ impact on the nutritive value of pollen. >>"Identi¢cation and roles of non-pathogenic micro£ora associated with honey bees" by gilliam only seems to support the idea that pollen must be fermented for the bees to digest it properly. >>deknow **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 27 May 2008 13:18:41 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bill Truesdell Subject: Re: Ozone Decontamination at Logan, Utah for combs with chemic al contamination In-Reply-To: <20080527.105808.8625.0@webmail12.dca.untd.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > http://www.miteaway.com/html/mite_awayii.php > "formic acid is a very toxic substance to everything living" Obviously honey should be added to the list of toxic food since it naturally contains formic acid. Water is toxic in the proper concentration or state. It is all in the context. Bill Truesdell Bath, Maine **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 27 May 2008 19:00:08 GMT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "deknow@netzero.net" Subject: Re: Ozone Decontamination at Logan, Utah for combs with chemic al contamination Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit -- Bill Truesdell wrote: It is all in the context. >>>yes, it is all in the context. given that this is marketing material for the product in question (one that is supposed to kill things), one must assume that it's toxicity is being cited as a selling point by the seller. >>>although water can be toxic in large quantities, you would have to work pretty hard to drink enough of it to cause harm, even if it were distilled and 100% pure. drowning or being whacked/stabbed by an icicle would hardly qualify as "toxicity". >>>i'm sure in high enough doses, honey would be toxic as well (it certainly was for eric dolphy...but of course he was diabetic)...but i somehow doubt that the toxicity of honey has anything to do with it's formic acid content. i would expect it's hygroscopic properties to be of more concern than it's formic acid content. >>>the contents of the product in question is 65% formic acid. you can make all the claims you want about everything being toxic in the right context...but here is the data from the msds sheet. this is not water, and it is not accurate to even imply a correlation between the toxcisity of formic acid and water (or honey). deknow (excerpt from msds below) Section 8: Health Hazard Information Primary Routes of Exposure: Inhalation, skin and eye contact, ingestion Inhalation: Inhalation of vapors can cause severe irritation of nose, throat, and upper respiratory tract. Inhalation of higher concentration may cause central nervous system effects and lung damage. Ingestion: Causes serious burns and corrosion of mouth, throat and esophagus, with immediate pain and difficulty swallowing. Other symptoms of abdominal pain nausea, diarrhea and vomiting can occur, leading to shortness of breath and death. Severe poisoning may cause shock, kidney damage. Skin contact: Corrosive, symptoms of redness, pain and severe burn can occur. Eye Contact: Corrosive! Vapors are irritating and may cause damage to eyes. Contact may cause severe burns and permanent eye damage. Chronic Exposure: Prolonged or repeated exposure to low concentrations may cause skin irritation and burn. Prolonged or repeated exposure may cause liver and kidney damage. - 3 **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 27 May 2008 16:05:39 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Lesli Sagan Subject: Re: Update to the ABJ Digitization Project In-Reply-To: <90F09F92-0C5C-4CED-984B-F587B82CED36@cornell.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline "To make a gift toward *The Hive and the Honeybee* please make your check payable to Cornell University and mail to Albert R. Mann Library, Cornell University, Ithaca, NY 14850. To find out more about supporting this growing collection, please contact Eveline Ferretti, Albert R. Mann Library (tel.: (607) 254-4993; email: ef15@cornell.edu)." http://bees.library.cornell.edu/b/bees/about.html On Mon, May 26, 2008 at 8:54 PM, Mike Griggs wrote: > Because of a couple of recent contributions I received an update to the > Mann Library digitization project for the first volumes of ABJ 1861-1900 > from the Director of the LIbrary.... -- ***************************** Lesli Sagan lesli.sagan@gmail.com **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 27 May 2008 21:09:07 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "=?windows-1252?Q?J._Waggle?=" Subject: Alarm Pheromone / Aggressive Ferals Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hello, It appears that in the past few years, about 10% of the feral swarms I collect are of an extremely aggressive nature. I often keep my feral swarms collected in my assessment yard that is next to the house, where I can keep a close season long inspection on them before moving them out to the yards. This year, while hiving a swarm at night from by swarm bucket into a hive at one end of a hive stand, a 5 day old swarm in a hive 4 places down was the one to erupt, while others being closer on the stand showed no response to the vibrations. I could clearly smell the alarm pheromone from 4 hive places away. It appears to be typical in these aggressive types for one to detect alarm pheromone odor from up to 5 feet from the colony! The behavior also involves, when disturbed, bees exiting and crawling all over the hive, flying and stinging. And lawn mowers really set off these alarm pheromone producing colonies. Over the past several years, I’ve taken up the habit of requeening colonies solely on the basis of detecting any smell of alarm pheromone outside the colony. I’m suspecting this aggressiveness is a result of crosses between domestic strains, as history records much aggressiveness in bees during the time we were replacing the German Black with the Italian and later, during the early 1900’s Cyprian bees turned aggressive, but I’m not sure of any cause to explain it. The aggressive colonies are similar to what I am used to dealing with in a typical aggressive colony. What is NOT typical is the very strong odor of alarm pheromone, and this is what I am seeking information about. Is it typical of any strain of bee to detect alarm odor from such a distance? Joe **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 27 May 2008 22:04:16 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Jerry Wallace Subject: Re: Alarm Pheromone / Aggressive Ferals In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" My hives are 90% + feral stock.? This spring I've seen more swarming and feistiness than in previous years and the bees are a lot more prone to running on the frames.? I tend to attribute the change to the introduction of several purchased nucs that came out of central Florida 2 years ago.? I have not seen the aggressive behavior you describe in any of my hives, but am on the lookout for such behavior.? ?I've heard some beekeepers say they like the aggressive hives as they are survivors and good honey producers.? **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 27 May 2008 13:38:21 GMT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "waldig@netzero.net" Subject: Re: long legged ladies Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit >>bought 100 queens from Florida early this spring and I couldnt believe how long their legs where. Are all of them long-legged? When I raise my own queens, I occasionally get one with very long legs. In my experience, a queen like that will either perish quickly or be superceded. I've attributed it to poor development. This is not to scare you. This may be a trait if you got 100 queens like that. Waldemar **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 27 May 2008 23:28:41 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Keith Malone Subject: Re: Alarm Pheromone / Aggressive Ferals In-Reply-To: <8CA8E7E44A47FDA-AF4-1F79@WEBMAIL-MA16.sysops.aol.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Hi, I can understand this and I also appreciate this, not highly Aggressive behavior but defensive yes. A colony that is defensive I think also contains many traits associated with surviving, it will guard well, and even be opportunistic. I think this aggressive behavior is actually defensive, using the word aggressive is really putting a negative and bad light on bees where the general public already views them incorrectly to begin with. Like I say "Beekeepers are their own worst enemy". No wonder most people hate to be around bees as there are beekeepers out there actually misunderstanding bee behavior and miss-informing the public. God Bless, Keith Malone On May 27, 2008, at 6:04 PM, Jerry Wallace wrote: > ?I've heard some beekeepers say they like the aggressive hives as > they are survivors and good honey producers.? **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 27 May 2008 20:34:54 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: randy oliver Subject: Re: Ozone Decontamination at Logan, Utah for combs with chemic al contamination In-Reply-To: <20080527.105808.8625.0@webmail12.dca.untd.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline > martha gilliam's research clearly states that the nutrition in the hive i= s dependent on microorganism activity. Dean, I can't find where she "clearly states" that at all! In fact, the word "nutritional" in only used twice in the paper, and the word "dependent= " is completely absent. I respectfully feel that you are stretching again. However, she certainly implies that fermented bee bread is more nutritious--an idea that I doubt anyone on this List would dispute. >in fact, it is an interesting comparison of data to read martha gilliam talk about the fermentation starting when the bees collect the pollen Indeed it is! Gilliam states that there is "a 115-fold increase in titratable acidity for free organic acids in corbicular pollen compared to floral pollen indicatin= g active fermentation" Please note that she says that free organic acids increase 115-fold, and that is *before* lactic fermentation in the cell! In case you don't get th= e point, formic acid is a "free organic acid." >formic acid (the active ingredient) has been proven to be a > formidable bactericide, fungicide and anti viral agent." As is lactic acid, acetic acid, and the other acids naturally occurring in bee bread. That is why lactose-fermented foods and silage are produced--th= e organic acids preserve them. BTW, the strong sugar concentration of honey is toxic to yeasts and bacteria. As is the deadly hydrogen peroxide that i= t produces via glucose oxidase. > >>unless you don't believe that microbial activity has anything to do wit= h > nutrition in honeybees wrt pollen This isn't about belief, its about nutrition. And there is plenty of evidence to suggest that bee bread is more nutritious than raw pollen. No one is arguing against that. > it would be hard to imagine that formic acid has _no_ impact on the > nutritive value of pollen I have never considered myself to be lacking in imagination, but since naturally-fermented beebread already contains formic acid, it's not difficult for me to imagine that formic fumigation for mites may very well not have any effect upon the nutritive value of pollen at all! You'd simpl= y be pickling the pickle briefly, and at a low concentration Dean, do you really think that a concentration of formic acid that the bees entirely ignore (personal observations around MitaAwayII pads) is going to entirely eliminate the nutritive value of the naturally highly acidic bee bread in the comb? The bacteria and fungi that produce bee bread are naturally acid resistant--they produce acids in order to prevent competitio= n from other microorganisms. If any critter in the hive is likely to be unaffected by formic acid, it would be the fermentation organisms! > > > >>"Identi=A2cation and roles of non-pathogenic micro=A3ora associated > with honey bees" by gilliam only seems to support the idea that pollen mu= st > be fermented for the bees to digest it properly. If you change the word "properly" to "more efficiently," then we are in total agreement! But it's a long stretch from there to damn the amount of formic acid released slowly by MiteAwayII pads. Dean, this isn't about argument, you are presenting an easily testable hypothesis. Field data indicate that northern colonies treated with formic in fall (which would treat all the stored pollen, since no new pollen would be available until the next spring) are able to thrive and rear early brood just fine on the nutrition provided by such formic-treated pollen. Since formic readily evaporates, leaving little or no residue, it would not be expected to accumulate in the combs, and not have any effect in subsequent years. Lacking any data whatsoever that normal treatment of colonies with MiteAwayII has a negative effect upon bee nutrition, I await any informatio= n to the contrary. Until then, I'll give the product the benefit of the doubt. Randy Oliver **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 May 2008 04:04:49 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Chris Slade Subject: Re: Alarm Pheromone / Aggressive Ferals MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =20 In a message dated 28/05/2008 02:16:34 GMT Standard Time, =20 naturebee@YAHOO.COM writes: I=E2=80=99m suspecting this aggressiveness is a result of=20 crosses between domestic strains, as history records much aggressiveness=20 in bees during the time we were replacing the German Black with the=20 Italian and later, during the early 1900=E2=80=99s Cyprian bees turned aggr= essive,=20 but I=E2=80=99m not sure of any cause to explain it. Heterosis or hybrid vigour. Old men, now long dead, spoke to me in awe of =20 the fearsome temper of the 'black Italians' around in the 1920s. First cro= sses=20 often make a very cross cross but things calm down when all the bees in the= =20 area are thoroughly mongrelised and normal selection for good temper is =20 possible. =20 Then somebody decides the grass is greener with the latest fashionable bree= d=20 and introduces it to an area to the general detriment of temper. I was onc= e=20 persuaded to accept a NZ Italian queen - that stock was very prolific and=20 docile and handled and bred like flies and I made use of the prolific swarm=20= =20 cells they produced to re-queen other colonies. It took me about 5 years t= o get=20 the temper of my bees back to as good as it had been before. =20 Chris (UK) =20 **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 May 2008 08:11:24 +0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Gavin Ramsay Subject: Re: Alarm Pheromone / Aggressive Ferals MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Joe - could you please try to describe the smell of alarm pheromone? Thanks Gavin **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 May 2008 05:01:22 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: C Hooper Subject: Execs Arrested in Plot to Import Contaminated Chinese Honey MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII Execs Arrested in Plot to Import Contaminated Chinese Honey German Food Company Executives Arrested in Plot to Import Honey Illegally from China The Associated Press, 5/28/2008 http://apitherapy.blogspot.com/2008/05/execs-arrested-in-plot-to-import.html CHICAGO: Two executives of a German-based company have been arrested on federal charges of conspiring to import honey contaminated with an illegal antibiotic from China, authorities announced Tuesday... **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 May 2008 09:13:06 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Chris Slade Subject: Re: Alarm Pheromone / Aggressive Ferals MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 28/05/2008 13:34:49 GMT Standard Time, gavinrbox-beel@YAHOO.CO.UK writes: Joe - could you please try to describe the smell of alarm pheromone? Geraniums. Chris **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 May 2008 10:06:04 -0400 Reply-To: bee-quick@bee-quick.com Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: James Fischer Subject: Re: Fwd: [BEE-L] Fumidil MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dick asked: > in spite of your long-winded diatribe, how does > any of what you've unproductively spent a good > deal of your time pecking away on your computer > have to do with what you originally wrote about > feeding fumigillan to bees? Perhaps I was not clear enough. 1) I said that spraying Fumagillin was an untested approach, one being "debunked" more than "verified" by what preliminary results have appeared. 2) You thought otherwise. So did a few others. 3) You also mused that Eric backed your ad-hoc treatment approach, based upon your personal interpretation of his newsletter. 4) While it is true that instruction sheets were circulating with spraying mentioned as an option, Eric clarified that this "advice" was being given in advance of any actual data to support it. 5) Eric also pointedly declined multiple opportunities to advocate Fumagillin spraying for any reason. 6) So, Eric made clear that the interpretation of his newsletter was in error, and that the instruction sheets were at least "premature", if not an utterly irresponsible move on the part of the manufacturer. I thought all of this "well-known facts", as the level of dismay over the lack of Nosema control has been high, and no one has been shy about voicing their dismay. **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 May 2008 10:24:25 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dick Marron Subject: Alarm Pheromone / Aggressive Ferals In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit AHBs have an additional component in their alarm pheromone that EHBs do not have...but that they respond to. Dick Marron **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 May 2008 07:37:10 -0700 Reply-To: deelusbybeekeeper@yahoo.com Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dee Lusby Subject: Re: Ozone Decontamination at Logan, Utah for combs with chemic al contamination In-Reply-To: <3dcef4a10805272034ke7c6977ya00fc8e05122cf7f@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Randy Oliver writes: If any critter in the hive is likely to be unaffected by formic acid, it would be the fermentation organisms! Reply: Yes, Randy this is true in a natural setting and at natural levels. But formic acid treatments by man is not using natural levels by a long shot. Further more, just like took much water intake can kill, so do the acids, but in the mean time they burn the body, creating functioning maladies for flight, thermoregulation, sight, digestion problems, disease vectoring etc. . Food requirements during the active year isn't so bad, for the bees can bring in more daily, though the wounds inflicted and secondary diseases start mounting. But in winter time with no new food coming in and confinement the game changes; and with adult bees and new bees if any produced in question, then problems start if bees cannot be replaced nor kept alive for long life periods due to eating problems like food with no nutritional value because of man's treatments. Dee A. Lusby **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 May 2008 21:15:01 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Peter Edwards Subject: Re: Alarm Pheromone / Aggressive Ferals MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Chris wrote: > Geraniums. That is nasonov pheromone - geraniol, e-citral, nerolic and geranic acids. Alarm pheromone is iso-pentyl acetate - smells like pear-drops (whatever happened to them?). Plenty of it around yesterday when we went out trying to sort out the bees! Peter **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 May 2008 17:20:44 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bill Truesdell Subject: Re: Ozone Decontamination at Logan, Utah for combs with chemic al contamination In-Reply-To: <113311.45311.qm@web51604.mail.re2.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Reply: Yes, Randy this is true in a natural setting and at natural levels. But formic acid treatments by man > is not using natural levels by a long shot. There has been so much out and out garbage on this subject that it would be nice to see a little science from those who condemn Formic Acid. If Formic Acid treatments are so bad, then there is one very large database to see if that is true, since it has been in use ever since Tracheal mites. Canada has been a test bed for it under Medhat's leadership, and I trust him much more than off-the-wall suppositions and prejudice that have peppered this subject so far. Just a little informed discussion here, please. Bill Truesdell Bath, Maine **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 May 2008 14:28:37 -0700 Reply-To: naturebee@yahoo.com Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "J. Waggle" Subject: Re: Alarm Pheromone / Aggressive Ferals In-Reply-To: <909229.93600.qm@web86208.mail.ird.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Gavin Ramsay wrote: > Joe - could you please try to describe the smell of alarm > pheromone? It’s a very pleasant banana smell. You should detect a very faint odor of alarm pheromone just prior to a colony that you have opened and are working in becomes stingy, and this is normal But IMO, it is not normal to be able to smell alarm pheromone from several feet, and I mark for requeen colonies that produce too much alarm pheromone. The best time to smell the odor is during winter, opening a colony without smoke, if you see the bees in the cluster pointing their stingers straight up, indicates they are reacting to alarm pheromone, and sticking your nose down next to the cluster, but not close enough to get stung on the nose, is a great way to get the smell of bee season during the off season. And maybe even a mid winter sting. ;) Best Wishes, Joe 1894 - Cedar Rapids, Iowa "A Medical exchange says that the first thing to be done when you have been stung by a bee is to extract the sting. that is all a doctor knows about it. The first thing to be done is to yell." http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/HistoricalHoneybeeArticles/ **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 May 2008 22:04:38 +0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Gavin Ramsay Subject: Re: Alarm Pheromone / Aggressive Ferals MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Thanks guys - I'll look out for pear/banana scents next time I'm at the bees! A little more on the Africanized alarm pheromone below. all the best Gavin ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Hunt GJ, Wood KV, Guzmán-Novoa E, Lee HD, Rothwell AP, Bonham CC. 2003. Discovery of 3-methyl-2-buten-1-yl acetate, a new alarm component in the sting apparatus of Africanized honeybees. J Chem Ecol. 29(2):453-63. We analyzed the alarm pheromone components from five colonies of Africanized honeybees and three colonies of European honeybees collected in Mexico. Analyses revealed a novel alarm pheromone component that was only present in appreciable quantities in the Africanized bee samples. Analysis of the mass spectrum and subsequent synthesis confirmed that this compound is 3-methyl-2-buten-1-yl acetate (3M2BA), an unsaturated derivative of IPA. In Africanized honeybees, sampling from stings of guards showed that 3M2BA was present at levels of 0-38% the amount of isoamyl acetate (IPA). Behavioral assays from three colonies each of Africanized and European bees showed that 3M2BA recruited worker bees from hives of both Africanized bees and European bees at least as efficiently as isopentyl acetate IPA, a compound widely reported to have the highest activity for releasing alarm and stinging behavior in honeybees. However, a mixture of of 3M2BA and IPA (1:2) recruited bees more efficiently than either of the compounds alone. None of the compounds differed in their efficacy for inducing bees to pursue the observers. **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 May 2008 18:07:06 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bill Truesdell Subject: Some actual science MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit http://www.biosecurity.govt.nz/pests-diseases/animals/varroa/paper/varroa-treatment-options.htm#9 Everything you would want to know about Varroa treatments. Excellent resource. Thank you, Kiwis. Bill Truesdell Bath, Maine **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 May 2008 16:29:31 -0700 Reply-To: naturebee@yahoo.com Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "J. Waggle" Subject: Re: Alarm Pheromone / Aggressive Ferals In-Reply-To: <634CB9BA-786E-4A0A-B224-C8E37810DF5C@gci.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > On May 27, 2008, at 6:04 PM, Jerry Wallace wrote: > > > ?I've heard some beekeepers say they like the > aggressive hives as > > they are survivors and good honey producers.? They generally are, and I do have one mature colony that is a good producer, but is also ultra defensive, and needs requeened soon. But I fear they might not produce any honey if this colony sends my landowner off for a hospital visit again. Best Wishes Joe **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 May 2008 17:14:33 -0700 Reply-To: deelusbybeekeeper@yahoo.com Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dee Lusby Subject: Re: Ozone Decontamination at Logan, Utah for combs with chemic al contamination In-Reply-To: <483DCCAC.7000307@suscom-maine.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Bill, Bill, glad you brought this up going back all the way to trachael mite early on treatments, that I have been against since the beginning with acids. So since it was supposedly shown it controls trachael mites. Let's see what he has on file for showing he looked at the other areas for not hurting. Or, did he not look? What is actually on the record for looking. For acids if they kill and burn, do what and how, and what is the scope and range........ Let's actually see it out in front then.......I'll bite!!! Also levels/toxcitity applied at for the results seen..... Dee A. Lusby **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 May 2008 18:23:23 -0700 Reply-To: k.kellison@earthlink.net Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Kathy Kellison Subject: to cure a bee sting MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Hi Joe, I heard one today, sorry if it is a repeat, cut a piece of white bread, soak in milk, and apply for 30 minutes can you reply off list,, I have pesticide questions for you.. Thanks, Kathy Kathy Kellison k.kellison@earthlink.net **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 May 2008 21:34:06 -0400 Reply-To: bee-quick@bee-quick.com Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: James Fischer Subject: Re: Alarm Pheromone / Aggressive Ferals MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit If you are wondering why a "banana" smell to alarm and sting pheromone, that is the specific smell of 2-Heptanone, one of the significant components of the pheromone. It has a bit of a metallic edge to it, so it is not exactly the odor of a banana. Regardless, a banana is a very poor choice of fruit for a bag lunch to be taken on a day of beekeeping, as it might lull you sense of smell to that odor. If you can smell the "banana" smell, it is time to back off and take a break. Go work the hives at the other end of the yard, and let that one calm down. And I must add my voice to the protest over the use of the term "aggressive". No such thing as "aggressive" bees. They are only defensive, decades of cartoons to the contrary. Some hives are merely more defensive than others... :) **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 May 2008 19:17:32 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu Comments: RFC822 error: Invalid RFC822 field - ">pheromone,=". Rest of header flushed. From: Eric Simms Subject: Re: Alarm Pheromone / Aggressive Ferals Comments: To: bee-quick@bee-quick.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable >If you are wondering why a "banana" smell to alarm and sting=0A>pheromone,= that is the specific smell of 2-Heptanone, one=0A>of the significant compo= nents of the pheromone.=A0 It has a =0A>bit of a metallic edge to it, so it= is not exactly the odor =0A>of a banana.=0A=0AExcellent summary of the def= ensive pheromone experience.=A0 I have had defensive bees come straight at = my veil, collide and spray me in the face with the defensive pheromone so v= igorously as to make it uncomfortable to inhale.=A0 The smell is strong and= sweet banana, but just a shade off the acetate smell used for artificial b= anana flavor or chemical=A0respirator fit testing.=A0 I have found that bei= ng marked in this fashion can only be masked by insect repellant spray, Fis= cher's Bee-Quick(r) or laundry with bleach.=A0 Any where else that you go i= n the apiary will aggravate otherwise nicer bees.=0AAlways mark or note you= r defensive colonies and work them last, lest ye be pheromone marked for a = target that any respectable guard bee would pursue.=0ARespectfully,=0AEric-= the-non-chemical-beekeeper-from-Howe-Texas=0A=0A=0A **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * ****************************************************