From MAILER-DAEMON Sat Feb 28 11:04:32 2009 Return-Path: <> X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.8 (2007-02-13) on industrial X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-83.9 required=2.4 tests=ADVANCE_FEE_1,ADVANCE_FEE_2, AWL,MAILTO_TO_SPAM_ADDR,SPF_HELO_PASS,USER_IN_WHITELIST autolearn=disabled version=3.1.8 X-Original-To: adamf@IBIBLIO.ORG Delivered-To: adamf@IBIBLIO.ORG Received: from listserv.albany.edu (unknown [169.226.1.24]) by metalab.unc.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4B1564865A for ; Sat, 28 Feb 2009 11:03:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from listserv.albany.edu (listserv.albany.edu [169.226.1.24]) by listserv.albany.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id n1SG3YWR017258 for ; Sat, 28 Feb 2009 11:03:37 -0500 (EST) Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2009 11:03:35 -0500 From: "University at Albany LISTSERV Server (14.5)" Subject: File: "BEE-L LOG0808B" To: adamf@IBIBLIO.ORG Message-ID: Content-Length: 141427 Lines: 3525 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Aug 2008 04:44:33 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Chris Slade Subject: Re: more trouble with viruses MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 08/08/2008 03:00:08 GMT Standard Time, beekeepers@STRATFORD-UPON-AVON.FREESERVE.CO.UK writes: I was not thinking of a breeding programme specifically aimed at DWV, or any other virus for that matter. In assessing colonies I score them for a large number of things, e.g. sacbrood, chalkbrood, deformed wings, paralysis, tolerance of wax moth, as well as for temper and productivity. At recent lecture from Sue Cobey (who knows a thing or two about selective breeding) she stressed how important it is to have a wide gene pool and not to select for a particular characteristic as too much genetic material will be lost. You end up with otherwise useless bees which are - in your example - resistant to DWV. She suggests (if I can decipher my scrawled notes) selecting for maybe 7 traits and scoring each colony 0-5 for each of the desired traits. Multiply the numbers together to highlight the outstanding ones (and, by extension, those to be culled). Chris **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Aug 2008 04:50:37 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Brian Ames Subject: Re: Mindest of the commercial beek ( was more trouble with viruses Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit On Wed, 6 Aug 2008 23:20:58 -0500, Bob Harrison wrote: >Moving south is a sound business practice. Keeping thousands of hives in the >north over winter is risky. >If keeping bees in the north was a sound business method then commercial >beeks would be staying north. > IMO wintering over even here in the Tundra of Mn is way less risky then sharing the latest nasties with other bees in almonds or losing bees enroute to CA. Anyone with years of experience in wintering bees in the north realize its a way to get a decent break in the brood cycle and there is never a reason then to deal with mites other then in fall. Most stationary beeks up here never treat in spring... we simply don't have to....and as you point out Bob, you control mites you minimize viruses and other complications. **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Aug 2008 08:07:59 +0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Juanse Barros Subject: Giant bee gives 'disaster' warning MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline http://ukpress.google.com/article/ALeqM5ix71Ov7SWi_kolbLjt-D2WWLzDmQ -- Juanse Barros J. APIZUR S.A. Carrera 695 Gorbea - CHILE +56-45-271693 08-3613310 http://apiaraucania.blogspot.com/ juanseapi@gmail.com **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Aug 2008 08:00:15 +0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Juanse Barros Subject: Nosemosis at France MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline http://www.lefigaro.fr/sciences/2008/07/05/01008-20080705ARTFIG00041-les-abeilles-du-haut-rhin-decimees-par-une-maladie.php -- Juanse Barros J. APIZUR S.A. Carrera 695 Gorbea - CHILE +56-45-271693 08-3613310 http://apiaraucania.blogspot.com/ juanseapi@gmail.com **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 7 Aug 2008 23:02:46 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: Re: Mindest of the commercial beek ( was more trouble with viruses In-Reply-To: <3dcef4a10808071742ub5aaaa0ub7e6fa720ccfb2ae@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello Randy & All, > Commercial beeks in California may not even own a honey extractor. Honey is selling now for $1.50 a pound. I have seen a drum of honey made from a pallet of 4 hives in areas of the Dakotas. ( secret areas). A yard of 40 hives produce 10 drums. Our main > income is from almond pollination, Almond pollination is only one stop of many for out of state beeks. and we may sign contracts in November. > Taking 50% winter losses after the contract is signed is troublesome. We have taken bees in Texas and split on fall honey crops. Then sent into almonds and then back to the Midwest. Almonds pays the winter trucking. Bees build better in Texas than in California in winter. Some flows ( secret Peter) run into November. In > California, it is a numbers game--how many strong colonies you have on Feb > 15th. Bob Brandi told me he has around 10 pollination contracts for each hive a year. I guess there are too many beeks for all California beeks to cash in on all the pollination contracts. > , or to move to better pasture, or perhaps a > honey crop. Dakota is getting crowded since the Adee's have doubled their numbers. The Adee's have created some hard feelings by trying to get the 3 mile limit dropped for locations. The Adee's are moving into other beekeeping families areas they have had for 50-100 years. Also many beeks which have been producing honey around Peire , South Dakota are moving east causing hard feelings. Another Midwest state has been producing some big crops but will not put the state on the net as all you California beeks will be rushing in to cash in with high honey prices. Bigger crops than the Dakotas and wide open country. > We do the same here, as the bees often come out of almonds > bursting at the seams. The bees in almonds returning to Missouri were busting at the seams. Around 35 swarms were hanging in the trees from a single semi load. All caught and sold of course to newbees. The bees were knocked back to a couple frames of brood and the largest apple orchard in Missouri said those were the best bees we ever brought in. Still doing great. No CCD here. We did see some DWV and some mite loads about six weeks ago and hope getting the supers off and treating will be in time. Our only worry is what we might find when the supers pulled. I picked up three obvious dead outs from 7 yards the other day and left on a pallet outside. I went out at 7 am and the bees in the home yard (around fifty) were robbing hell out of the boxes. I had to put on the container to stop the robbing. No CCD boxes which bees will not rob. yes Italians will steal before they will starve. Honey crop: So far so good. The soy beans bloomed in one area and the hives each filled a couple supers each last week. Even with bees in two deeps and supers pilled high big beard on the front. Soy beans bloom every time it rains. However the soil conditions have to be just right and the humidity high for the bees to work the beans in my area. They enter the field from the ends in the morning usually around 10 am. Nice light honey. Sincerely, Bob Harrison Ps. Randy thanks for taking my close friend Terry B. with you to look at your experiments. He said he really enjoyed his visit with you. Said you worked bees in shorts! When he is with me he talks bees 24-7. I imagine he did the same at your house. **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Aug 2008 10:52:56 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Peter Edwards Subject: Re: more trouble with viruses MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Chris wrote: > Sue Cobey ... stressed how important it is to have a wide gene pool > She suggests (if I can decipher my scrawled notes) selecting for maybe 7 > traits and scoring each colony 0-5 for each of the desired traits. Of course this makes a great deal of sense, but I still feel that it is worth scoring for more traits, even if the data are not of immediate use. By limiting the number of traits assessed, information that may be of use at a later date will not be recorded - you cannot go back to assess a queen after she is dead! Best wishes Peter Edwards beekeepers at stratford-upon-avon.freeserve.co.uk www.stratford-upon-avon.freeserve.co.uk/ **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Aug 2008 03:59:32 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: C Hooper Subject: Veterinarian Uses Honey to Heal Wounds Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Veterinarian Uses Honey to Heal Wounds Honey Helps Heal Wounds By Joe Graedon and Teresa Graedon, The Hartford Courant, 8/8/2008 http://apitherapy.blogspot.com/2008/08/veterinarian-uses-honey-to-heal-wounds.html Q.I work with animals. Yesterday, we had a dog rip out her stitches to a point where closure was not an option. Our veterinarian placed honey on a dressing and bandaged up our little beagle. Today, the wound already looks much better… **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Aug 2008 07:38:27 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "=?windows-1252?Q?J._Waggle?=" Subject: Re: Sic vos non vobis mellificatis apes Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hello, Hopefully one of these links of the woodcut will work http://s113.photobucket.com/albums/n237/FeralBeeProject/Feral%20Colonies/? action=view¤t=newpic.jpg http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n237/FeralBeeProject/Feral% 20Colonies/newpic.jpg Joe Waggle ~ Derry, PA ‘Bees Gone Wild Apiaries' **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Aug 2008 15:37:35 -0700 Reply-To: naturebee@yahoo.com Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "J. Waggle" Subject: Re: Sic vos non vobis mellificatis apes In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit 3 times a charm, Woodcut: http://tinyurl.com/5pnw5c http://tinyurl.com/5qyx5y Joe Waggle ~ Derry, PA ‘Bees Gone Wild Apiaries' **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Aug 2008 17:33:28 -0700 Reply-To: mws1112004@yahoo.com Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Mike Stoops Subject: Re: Almod polle - was Mindset In-Reply-To: <3dcef4a10808071742ub5aaaa0ub7e6fa720ccfb2ae@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii --- On Thu, 8/7/08, randy oliver wrote: We do the same here, as the bees often come out of almonds bursting at the seams. Randy Oliver I was under the impression that almond pollen was not the best protein source for honey bees. Do you observe any adverse affects on your bees from raising brood on almond bloom? Do you find nectar sources to be inadequate? Mike **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 9 Aug 2008 04:37:18 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: C Hooper Subject: Brazilian Researchers Create First Antivenom for Bee Stings Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Brazilian Researchers Create First Antivenom for Bee Stings http://apitherapy.blogspot.com/2008/08/brazilian-researchers-create-first.html A study conducted by a team of Brazilian researchers recently developed the first antivenom serum for bee stings. Initiated in 2005, the antidote is currently undergoing clinical trials in Hospital Vital Brazil and the Hospital of the USP, both in Sao Paulo, and should reach the market later this year… **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 9 Aug 2008 16:17:59 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Peter Edwards Subject: Re: Giant bee gives 'disaster' warning MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Juanse gave this link: > http://ukpress.google.com/article/ALeqM5ix71Ov7SWi_kolbLjt-D2WWLzDmQ The press gets it wrong yet again! Sales of UK honey are estimated to generate £11m - not £150m. The £150m presumably refers to the value of pollination, although that is also wrong as the ADAS report gave £165m - a figure which I understand was incredibly conservative and may well be revised to around £500m. Best wishes Peter Edwards beekeepers at stratford-upon-avon.freeserve.co.uk www.stratford-upon-avon.freeserve.co.uk/ **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 9 Aug 2008 12:39:59 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: =?UTF-8?Q?Peter_L_Borst?= Subject: Bee collecting corn pollen Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Greetings Last week I saw a lot of bees gathering corn pollen, which I hadn't seen before. A photograph of it is at: http://groups.google.com/group/upstate-new-york-beekeeping pb **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 10 Aug 2008 04:55:21 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: C Hooper Subject: Manuka Honey Reduces Colitis Inflammation Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Manuka Honey Reduces Colitis Inflammation Effect of Different Doses of Manuka Honey in Experimentally Induced Inflammatory Bowel Disease in Rats Phytotherapy Research, Published Online: 7 Aug 2008 http://apitherapy.blogspot.com/2008/08/manuka-honey-reduces-colitis.html Abstract: To evaluate the effect of different doses of Manuka honey in experimentally induced inflammatory bowel disease in rats… Manuka honey at different doses provided protection against TNBS-induced colonic damage. There was significant protection with Manuka honey 5 g/kg as well as with 10 g/kg body weight compared with the control… **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 10 Aug 2008 05:03:03 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: C Hooper Subject: Bumblebee Attractant Sought to Replace Declining Honeybees Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Bumblebee Attractant Sought to Replace Declining Honeybees Ore. Researcher Hopes Dye Attracts Bees to Fields The Associated Press, 8/9/2008 http://apitherapy.blogspot.com/2008/08/bumblebee-attractant-sought-to-replace.html CORVALLIS, Ore. -- Oregon State University researchers hope that a fluorescent dye can attract more native bumblebees to farm fields to replace declining honeybees and boost the numbers of an insect essential to agriculture… **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 10 Aug 2008 09:11:29 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Chris Slade Subject: Re: Bee collecting corn pollen MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 10/08/2008 03:09:23 GMT Standard Time, peterlborst@GMAIL.COM writes: Last week I saw a lot of bees gathering corn pollen, which I hadn't seen before. What other pollens were available to them? Chris **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 10 Aug 2008 09:44:32 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: dan&jan Subject: Re: Bee collecting corn pollen In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Peter L Borst wrote: > Greetings > > Last week I saw a lot of bees gathering corn pollen, which I hadn't seen before. > > Corn pollen is a major pollen source in areas where there is a lot of corn is grown such as the Midwest. It is a major cause of bee kills in sweet corn where it is regularly sprayed for insects. Almost any residual insecticide "attaches" to the pollen and is carried back to the hive and causes severe delayed brood kill Dan Veilleux **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 10 Aug 2008 10:04:30 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "Peter L. Borst" Subject: Re: Bee collecting corn pollen MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline >What other pollens were available to them? > >Chris Lots of pollen available, I would think. We have had plenty of rain, and there is a great variety of wild flowers. Chicory (Cichorium), black eyed Susan (Rudbeckia) , knapweed (Centauria), heartsease (Polygonum), vetch (Vicia), early goldenrods, some buckwheat and alfalfa. (Common names vary from region to region). But the corn (maize, Zea mays) is nearly the only field crop in this area, so it does provide large areas of concentrated pollen source. The quality is doubtful? -- Peter L Borst Danby, NY USA 42.35, -76.50 http://picasaweb.google.com/peterlborst **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 10 Aug 2008 08:51:05 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Paul Cherubini Subject: Re: Bee collecting corn pollen MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I'm not a corn farmer, but my understanding is the corn plants shed pollen for only 1 week durimg the growing season, hence I would guess the pollen would be available to the bees for only 1 week? I also understand that although sweet corn may be sprayed a few times with insecticides, sweet corn makes up only a tiny fraction of the corn acreage grown in the Midwest, hence the vast majority of the corn is never sprayed. Paul Cherubini El Dorado, Calif. **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 10 Aug 2008 12:05:42 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "=?windows-1252?Q?J._Waggle?=" Subject: 1730 - Bees, Destruction Of - THOMSON Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit James Thomson, a British poet born 1700, at Ednam, near Kelso, in Scotland, was perhaps best known for his poetic works titled ‘The Seasons’. In his ‘Autumn’, Thomson includes a graphic description of the destruction of bees in a verse referenced as; 'Bees, Destruction Of.' After first being published in 1730, the Bees, Destruction Of portion has become very popular with authors, having been referenced time and again in many books, especially with the apiarian community where beekeeping greats; Bonner, Bevan, Neighbour, Langstroth, are amongst the many that have quoted from; Thomsons; Bees, Destruction Of. Here I include a portion of Bees Destruction of: “Ah, see where, robbed and murdered, in that pit Lies the still heaving hive ! at evening snatched, Beneath the cloud of guilt—concealing night, And fixed o'er sulphur: while, not dreaming ill, The happy people, in their waxen cells, Sat tending public cares, and planning schemes Of temperance, for Winter poor; rejoiced To mark, full flowing round, their copious stores, Sudden the dark oppressive steam ascends; And, used to milder scents; the tender race, By thousands tumble from their honeyed domes, Convolved and agonizing in the dust. And was it then for this you roamed the Spring, Intent from flower to flower?... ” -THOMPSON. I am seeking historical accounts describing exactly how hives were “fixed o'er sulphur”. What was the procedure? Illistrations, names of tools used in the procedure? Reference books, Time of day, time of year, the recipe that was used and any other details. Thanks! naturebee@yahoo.com Best Wishes, Joe http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/HistoricalHoneybeeArticles/ **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 10 Aug 2008 16:29:04 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: Re: Bee collecting corn pollen In-Reply-To: <489F0E69.839@saber.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello Paul & All, Paul said: but my understanding is > the corn plants shed pollen for only 1 week during > the growing season, hence I would guess the pollen > would be available to the bees for only 1 week? If the pollen was only available to the bees for a week perhaps the bees would have a chance but bees collect even the pollen dust from corn. Even from the field after combined. Every spring I get calls from farmers complaining about the bees in their bins and in feeders after the pollen. One chicken farmer called very year until I explained the bees needed the pollen from his corn to feed starving baby bees. I should have got an academy award for my performance! He called back and said his wife had put some whole corn with pollen out in a tray for the bees! When farmers auger corn from bins the pollen dust fall to the ground. When I removed corn from my livestock feed bin the dust falls to the ground below the slide. In early spring or late fall you can see the bees picking up the pollen under the slide. I used to keep chickens around years ago and each spring when pollen was unavailable the bees would get into the chicken grain feeders. The chickens didn't mind as the chickens stood and ate the bees. The reality is in my opinion that bees only look at corn pollen when better sources are not available. We had heaps of corn pollen brought in in the drought years of 2005 & 2006. This year we have had a steady flow of both nectar and pollen. I had two hives fall over the last two days ( need I say why?) and when I set back up even the bottom super was full of honey which tells me that the bees have not needed the honey stored about the excluder. I could see the arches around the brood full of honey. In some years the bottom super has an arch of empty comb as the bees pulled the honey down to feed the brood. We call the scenario "the bees are going backwards". When the "bees are going backwards" you can lose a couple supers of honey in a short period. Also a pain extracting the boxes with empty arches. Commercial solution to "bees going backwards" Pull supers and extract as soon as the situation is seen and then feed the bees syrup. A large hive can starve fast in the situation so if I pull supers under the " bees going backwards " scenario I feed later in the day about dark to prevent robbing. Honey 1.50 lb. and syrup .20 a lb. bob **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 10 Aug 2008 18:48:23 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Brian Ames Subject: EU pesticide ban? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit http://www.fwi.co.uk/Articles/2008/08/08/111582/eu-pesticide-ban-your-questions- answered.html **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 10 Aug 2008 18:50:20 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Chris Slade Subject: Re: Bee collecting corn pollen MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 10/08/2008 18:20:43 GMT Standard Time, monarch@SABER.NET writes: I also understand that although sweet corn may be sprayed a few times with insecticides, sweet corn makes up only a tiny fraction of the corn acreage grown in the Midwest, hence the vast majority of the corn is never sprayed. "Corn" is a term that changes its meaning as it crosses the Atlantic. On this (eastern) side the term is always applied to wheat specifically and in a more general context it may be applied to similar- looking grasses such as oats and barley. Maize is usually referred to by the housewife as "sweet corn" because that is how it is labelled on the greengrocer's counter although I think that by far the majority is used as a source of bulky food for winter feed for cattle. So when you write that the majority of corn is never sprayed are you referring to maize or are you using the term in its wider sense to include all the types of grain listed? While being open to correction, my understanding is that bees may sometimes work wheat and the other corns either at extra floral nectaries that may appear following damage or collect honeydew from aphids. In these instances they may be vulnerable to sprays or other chemical methods used to combat the aphids. Chris **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 10 Aug 2008 19:15:26 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Chris Slade Subject: Re: Bee collecting corn pollen MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =20 In a message dated 10/08/2008 23:32:27 GMT Standard Time, =20 busybeeacres@HUGHES.NET writes: Honey 1.50 lb. and syrup .20 a lb. Everything's so cheap in America, especially fuel, that I wonder whether =20 it's worth going there to stretch the pension! Here (UK) honey is =A34 ($8)= a lb=20 and sugar (it's years since I bought any) about 40 pence or $0.8 a lb. =20 Chris =20 =20 =20 **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2008 12:39:10 +1200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Barry Donovan Subject: Fwd: Varroa - sorted out? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This sounds very promising. http://www.hortresearch.co.nz/index/news/509 Researchers find sustainable varroa solution Natural fungus is mite's 'worst enemy' Visit our website at http://www.crop.cri.nz ______________________________________________________ CAUTION: The information contained in this email is privileged and confidential. If you read this message and you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any use, dissemination, distribution or reproduction of all or part of the contents is prohibited. If you receive this message in error, please notify the sender immediately. Any opinions or views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not represent those of their employer. **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 10 Aug 2008 20:25:35 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Charles Harper Subject: Re: Bee collecting corn pollen In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sweet corn (table corn, roasting ears) around here is planted in stages so the farmer has a much longer harvest time. Pollen will be available for more than one week from the same field. Harper's Honey Farm Charles Harper charlie@russianbreeder.org labeeman@russianbreeder.com (337) 298 6261 **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 10 Aug 2008 21:46:41 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Peter Subject: Re: : Varroa - sorted out? By Metarhizium MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Greetings, not to dampen anyone's hopes, but this was news in 2004 and has yet to = take the next step. Peter REFERENCE "Saving Bees: Fungus Found To Attack Varroa Mites"=20 was published in the October 2004 issue of = Agricultural Research magazine. Scientists in the ARS Beneficial Insects Research Unit at Weslaco, Texas, have found that a strain of the fungus Metarhizium anisopliae is deadly to Varroa mites, ......... The scientific team is now fine-tuning the strategy for transfer to = producers. =20 ----- Original Message -----=20 Sent: Sunday, August 10, 2008 8:39 PM Subject: [BEE-L] Fwd: Varroa - sorted out? This sounds very promising. =20 http://www.hortresearch.co.nz/index/news/509=20 =20 Researchers find sustainable varroa solution=20 Natural fungus is mite's 'worst enemy' =20 =20 =20 **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 10 Aug 2008 23:08:15 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: T'N'T Apiaries Subject: Re: : Varroa - sorted out? By Metarhizium MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Peter >but this was news in 2004 and has yet to take the next step. "IF" they have in fact found a way of maintaining the fungus in the hive, is this not the "next step". Several of us have been wondering why this news has garnered so little discussion by the Gods of Bee-L. Is there a credibility issue with those involved in making the annoucement? Dave Tharle Ardmore, AB **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 10 Aug 2008 22:33:26 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: Honey production ( was Bee collecting corn pollen) In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit busybeeacres@HUGHES.NET writes: Honey 1.50 lb. and syrup .20 a lb. The above are wholesale bulk prices. The 1.50 U.S. is the high price at the moment for top grades of honey ( table) in the 55 gallon drum or tote container ( 275 gallon). Not store price. If $8 ( U.S.) in bulk in U.K. how many containers can you handle Chris? The price might also reflect a 10,000 Lbs.. sale. The buck fifty range is the highest bulk price in around four years I believe. I think the following are close for my area. Last year was in the 90.-1.00 range two years ago dropped as low as .60-.70 three years ago I think in .80-.90 four years ago I think was the last time prices hit a buck fifty. The above are only what I think I remember and all areas can very in price and type of honey. The .20 a pound will cover HFCS in tanker loads. However I think sucrose is in the .23 a pound range. We have bought tanker loads in the .12-.15 a pound range in our area but higher in California. Since we went to sucrose we buy in totes locally and get the amount a 10 wheeler can haul. We do not store sucrose like we did HFCS which we did store.( tanker load at a time) I think our bees do better on sucrose . I like being able to buy the sucrose directly from the plant (although in Kansas but around 75 miles from us) as we get the product at the correct heat range and do not have to worry about the product getting too hot in tanker shipment. Which we did with HFCS on tankers out of the far north. I am pretty sure we received at least one or two tanker loads with high HMF levels in the past. The point I was trying to make Chris is that I have read that a hive uses around 300 pounds of honey a year. (personally I think a researcher pulled the figure from the air) so if you keep bees at full strength you can see after a honey flow is over the bees can consume 60-100 pounds of honey in a hurry. Of course the queen (unless Italian) realizes the precious honey is not coming in and starts to shut down. When it comes to honey production ( are you listening Randy?) I look at the bottom super on a stack of a strong hive to see when the bees start going backwards. Which will tell me when the flow is over and supers need pulled. In my opinion bees doing honey production do best when left alone. Bottom supering disturbs the bees too much. I like to slip in the yard and quietly keep adding supers as needed. Prop the tops up in a heavy flow and let the bees enter the top. However get those tops down when the bees are going backwards, I try not to let the bees plug out as makes a mess and causes robbing *when* the bees are going backwards. When I see a stack of supers all plugged together with burr comb I believe the beekeeper lost a super of honey in between the boxes. Give the bees plenty of room (drawn comb) at the start of the honey flow and crowd at the end. Sincerely, Bob Harrison Beekeeping since early teens Beekeeping was project in Future Farmers of America **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 10 Aug 2008 19:53:12 -0700 Reply-To: mws1112004@yahoo.com Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Mike Stoops Subject: Re: : Varroa - sorted out? By Metarhizium In-Reply-To: <001701c8fb54$1af704c0$1b80a9d1@pkeating> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable True, but they couldn't find a vector with which to use it.=A0 Now it seems= they have overcome that problem. Mike in LA --- On Sun, 8/10/08, Peter wrote: not to dampen anyone's hopes, but this was news in 2004 and has yet to take the next step. Peter =0A=0A=0A **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2008 04:31:41 +0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Juanse Barros Subject: Re: : Varroa - sorted out? By Metarhizium In-Reply-To: <001701c8fb54$1af704c0$1b80a9d1@pkeating> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Peter The diference is that the Kiwis said they know how to safellly apply it to the colonies. I bet for the Kiwis. -- Juanse Barros J. APIZUR S.A. Carrera 695 Gorbea - CHILE +56-45-271693 08-3613310 http://apiaraucania.blogspot.com/ juanseapi@gmail.com **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 10 Aug 2008 22:09:50 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: ALDEN MARSHALL Subject: Re: Bee collecting corn pollen MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-1; reply-type=original Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit > I'm not a corn farmer, but my understanding is > the corn plants shed pollen for only 1 week durimg > the growing season, hence I would guess the pollen > would be available to the bees for only 1 week? > Here in the northeast sweet corn is planted at many intervals to provide a constant crop for at least two months. Very problematic. Alden Marshall Hudson, NH 03051 **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 10 Aug 2008 21:38:42 -0700 Reply-To: deelusbybeekeeper@yahoo.com Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dee Lusby Subject: Re: Fwd: Varroa - sorted out? In-Reply-To: <48A032ED.6B14.0080.0@crop.cri.nz> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Not to me does it sound good! In fact see opposite for long-term effect! First question: Why are bees cleaning it out and researchers circumventing the bees cleaning of it,to keep for treatment instead? Why not following the bees needs/actions? Second: It might not be a chemical, but it is still a man derived treatment and seemingly out of cync with what the bees seem to want to do. Again, why the bees wanting to clean out? Seems to me would want to know that first for bad effects prior to putting industry at stake if bad call for using!! Anyway, just my 2-cents! Dee **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2008 23:45:11 +1000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Geoff Manning Subject: Re: Bee collecting corn pollen MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ----- Original Message ----- From: "Peter L. Borst" > But the corn > (maize, Zea mays) is nearly the only field crop in this area, so it > does provide large areas of concentrated pollen source. The quality is > doubtful? No, not doubtful, useless. Which raises the question, is corn so ubiquitous in the US that it cannot be avoided? Geoff Manning **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2008 08:29:03 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: Re: Honey production ( was Bee collecting corn pollen) In-Reply-To: <48887218625348639002A1D6B8469017@bobPC> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit . However I think sucrose is > in the .23 a pound range. I think premixed is in the thirties this year. I purchased pallets of fifty pounds bags and mixed myself this year and was under premixed prices by quite a bit. Not sure why, You can place the bags in a 55 gallon drum and turn the heat up on the water heater to around 170F and the sugar dissolves easily. I bring the pallet of bags over by a line of empty drums and slit the bag with a box cutter and let the sugar run into the barrel. I never lift a bag. On some water heaters you need to remove the cover and turn the knob as far as the knob will go to reach the 170 F. temperature. I have cut way back on feeding due to costs mainly. I fed heavily during the two drought years but now with normal years my feeding costs have dropped . bob **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2008 12:28:15 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Brian Ames Subject: Re: Bee collecting corn pollen Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I've posted this before A couple of summers back maybe it was 2004 I got a USDA SARE grant to buy a microscope to use to identify the floral sources of pollen in pollen traps and residual pollen in honey I live in Central Mn and am surrounded by corn and beans, although we have large areas of undeveloped land, wetlands, preserves and hobby farms so its a good area for bees. Many experienced beekeepers can pull 5 supers off a good hive in most seasons. Anyhow our weekly analysis showed minimal corn pollen. All the corn around here is mostly feed corn and not sweet corn. I also keep bees all the way south to the Iowa border. I don't hear from any commercial beekeepers or hobbyists that they have crashing hives in corn country in central and southern Mn. Other then a few CCD cases in those who move to almonds we don't have CCD like problems around here either. **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2008 11:52:56 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: Re: Bee collecting corn pollen In-Reply-To: <007a01c8fbb8$8cc0d0e0$52e1140a@podargus1> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > No, not doubtful, useless. Bees use the corn pollen and always have in the Midwest. In the east , west and south you see little corn compared to the upper Midwest. In my area the corn fields run for miles in all directions. The only sure way to avoid corn pollen is to move the hives into range country when the clover flow is over. The River bottoms is another area you can move to. Many better pollen producing plants. bob **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2008 13:46:44 -0400 Reply-To: james.fischer@gmail.com Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: James Fischer Subject: Re: : Varroa - sorted out? By Metarhizium MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > not to dampen anyone's hopes, but this was news in > 2004 and has yet to take the next step. Worse than that, the level of control claimed in initial reports seemed "too good to be true", and sure enough, turned out to be not true at all. The NHB funded a last-ditch attempt in 2006, and this project produced a final report that suggested that a framing nail-gun be used on the coffin for Metarhizium just to settle things once and for all. But the story is far too entertaining to not be told from the beginning. The results reported by Kanga (then with the USDA) seemed "too good to be true", in that he claimed that varroa were killed by a single application of the fungus (Metarhizium anisopliae), in mere days, and that the method of application just did not matter at all. Strips, dusting the spores, putting the spores into sugar syrup, all killed the varroa "as well or better than Apistan", yielding a textbook set of results in slides presented at the larger meetings in 2003. http://tinyurl.com/5h48u6 http://www.ars.usda.gov/research/publications/publications.htm?seq_no_115=14 0685 Dr. Kanga leveraged his initial publication of these findings into a new post at Florida A&M, making a very big jump from "post doc" to Associate Professor. Ask around academia, this just does not happen often. Eyebrows were raised. Once Kanga was at Florida A&M, there were some difficulties in reproducing Kanga's results, and the confusion that resulted took more than a year. First it was thought that the wrong bacteria had been fermented, then it was said that the initial ID on the specific strain of the fungus was wrong, then it was thought that the fungus had been contaminated with another fungus, and so on. Bottom line, it could never be made to work anywhere near as well ever again. Was this a case of "scientific fraud"? Possibly. One would have to be incredibly lucky to have all the mites in the treated hives in a controlled study just happen to drop dead within a 4-day period of natural causes. With so much intense attention to all the details that might have caused a problem, one cannot call the initial claims "accurate" in light of the subsequent results. The dodging and weaving by USDA was pretty impressive. I was dealing directly with the USDA on this issue, as I was willing to pay steep license fees to the USDA for the right to market a product based upon their "discovery". Did I mention that the USDA claimed at one point that the Patent and Trademark Office "lost" their application for a patent for this "invention"? That would have been the first time that something like that had ever happened. But without a patent, they had "nothing to license" in their view, which made it difficult to try to "do business". So, I ran my own field trials, using my own fungus, grown at a fermentation facility in NC. I got the same lousy results that everyone else was getting, and cut bait on the deal. Cost me about $48K, all told. Not cheap. In 2006, the National Honey Board funded a "one last try" project. Rosalind James of USDA, Jerry Hayes of the state of FL, and Jerrod Leland of USDA gave the fungus one last chance to show some promise, but all they were able to produce was yet another giant sucking sound. http://tinyurl.com/6qnlwq http://www.hpj.com/archives/2007/jun07/jun25/NHB-sponsoredmitecontrolres.cfm http://tinyurl.com/6hyhgd http://www.honey.com/honeyindustry/reports/MR_0207.pdf Maybe someone can make a different strain of bacteria work, or maybe someone has stumbled upon the specific strain of soil bacteria used in the first trial, or maybe everyone involved since Kanga (including me) has been simply incompetent, but I doubt that so many different people could all be so wrong at the same time. If someone can make a fungus work, I certainly (now!) know how to mass-produce very specific fungi at reasonable cost and package a product, so give me a call. Something like this needs to be a non-profit product, sold through beekeeping organizations, so that treatments can be coordinated between adjacent/nearby beekeepers. We even set up a limited partnership - "Fungi Fun Guys, LLC". We were that sure of ourselves. But my bet is that this will be yet another item simply not effective enough to be a "worthwhile" product. There are lots of things that seem to control varroa, but not all of them are good enough to be worth the time and money required to get EPA approval and registration. **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2008 10:01:24 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: randy oliver Subject: Re: : Varroa - sorted out? By Metarhizium In-Reply-To: <002401c8fb70$42e3bf70$6401a8c0@Office> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline > > >"IF" they have in fact found a way of maintaining the fungus in the hive, > is this not the "next step". Several of us have been wondering why this > news has garnered so little discussion by the Gods of Bee-L. Is there a > credibility issue with those involved in making the annoucement? Good question, Dave. Perhaps because one becomes jaded to new announcements in varroa breakthroughs. The fungi already exist in the environment, and therefore have likely already been introduced into every bee hive via dust and bee foraging. They haven't yet decimated the mites. The trick appears to be to maintain a level of fungal spores high enough to cause substantial varroa mortality. Unfortunately, the bees work against this due to their obsession with cleaning the hive and grooming. Any biocontrol requires an adequate level of hosts in which to reproduce. If the fungus were to wipe out varroa in the hive, it would eliminate its own food supply, and disappear. Then the mites could rebound. Therefore, a fungal miticide might need to be dusted on a regular basis. The trick so far is to culture a virulent fungus (best grown on mites*, but impractical), to figure out how to maintain spore viability, and to distribute the spores so that they glom onto the mites in the hive and infect them. *Years ago, Dr. Judy Chen worked with fungi, esp. Hirsutella. She found that the best way to obtain virulent Hirsutella was to infect the mites in the colony, then gather dead mites off the bottom board, and reinfect with spores from them. The fungus became more virulent each generation (no surprise). However, when fungus is grown upon an artificial agar in the lab, the virulence may decrease each generation. It is difficult to work with large quantities of live mites as a fungal host in the lab. Randy Oliver **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2008 17:07:01 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: Re: Bee collecting corn pollen In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello Brian & All, All beekeeping is local. I remember your post. In fact I think Brian Fredrickson used your study to say bees do not gather corn pollen. I think Brian said : "the bees have to collect corn pollen for a problem to happen and bees do not gather corn pollen" I assure you they do as shown in Peters photo. Also the neonicotinoids are found in the pollen. .>Anyhow our weekly analysis showed minimal corn pollen. I wonder the dates when you ran your traps? Until corn tassels you would not find corn pollen of any amount. Did you check over several years? I might also suggest from my also looking at corn pollen brought in by bees is that the pollen is very sticky as compared to other pollens and like certain other pollens not so easy knocked from the bees legs. Pine pollen is hard to collect. Only a hypothesis. >we don't have CCD like problems around here either. I think (if I remember correctly) that Jerry Brumenshenk came on and said the CCD team had heard from plenty of beeks in your area claiming CCD problems. Jerry want to comment? keeping names secret gives the impression there are few CCD claims. Several beeks in my area sure reporting hives dwindling since the corn started teaseling. I for now are not having problems but most of the supers are on so will not really know until the supers are stripped and we can dig into the brood nests. I suspect enough other plants are producing a better pollen and my bees are only bringing in minimal corn pollen like Brian's study. The bottom line is simple: In certain years in my area the bees fill so many frames of corn pollen we have to pull frames to open the brood nest. Happens usually about every five years but the bees do collect some each season as shown by Brian's grant study. bob **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2008 10:35:46 +1200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Barry Donovan Subject: Varroa - sorted out? Metarhizum. In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Yes as Peter Keating points out, and as the article from New Zealand reports, and I quote from the latter: "The concept of using the fungus to combat varroa is not new, however other attempts to develop a commercially viable Metarhizum -based product have failed because the fungus is rapidly removed from the hive by the bees themselves as part of their normal hive cleaning and maintenance behaviour. HortResearch honeybee expert Dr Mark Goodwin says his team have solved this problem by finding a way to keep the fungus within the hive; ensuring populations remain high enough to achieve mite control". But even if it works, there is as yet no indication of the cost of treatment, and also will there be questions about possible fungus contamination of honey? Barry Donovan, New Zealand. Visit our website at http://www.crop.cri.nz ______________________________________________________ CAUTION: The information contained in this email is privileged and confidential. If you read this message and you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any use, dissemination, distribution or reproduction of all or part of the contents is prohibited. If you receive this message in error, please notify the sender immediately. Any opinions or views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not represent those of their employer. **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2008 02:31:59 GMT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "waldig@netzero.net" Subject: Unlimited broodnest hives and migration. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit A question for folks with 3 deep broodnests: do you practice migratory beekeeping for the late summer/fall flows? I have extracted the spring/early summer honey but the 3-deep hives are still very heavy. I seems they are too heavy for efficient transporting. Any practical advice would be most welcome. Waldemar **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2008 21:50:41 -0700 Reply-To: deelusbybeekeeper@yahoo.com Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dee Lusby Subject: Re: Varroa - sorted out? Metarhizum. In-Reply-To: <48A16781.6B14.0080.0@crop.cri.nz> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii barry Donovan: also will there be questions about possible fungus contamination of honey? Reply: This to me is a given it will be in the honey at a certain level. But I would be more concerned about what the fungus would/will do to the pollen stored in hives the bees use for broodrearing. I would also be concerned about beneficial mites being hurt and other micro-organisms in our bee hives, for unsetting other co-existant relationships that have developed over the course of many years/centuries, thus creating other problems to deal with. D **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2008 21:42:55 -0700 Reply-To: deelusbybeekeeper@yahoo.com Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dee Lusby Subject: Re: Unlimited broodnest hives and migration. In-Reply-To: <20080811.223159.769.1@webmail04.dca.untd.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Waldemar: To me 3 deeps are light compared to 4/5 deeps.......They transport easily enough on a flat bed with liftgate and kellynose hand truck for moving.They also stack one on top of each other easily with a fork lift too and lifting front tongs together. So stack, wheel on liftgate, rope and rollon.....nothing hard. Or simply move just normal 3 deeps as they still load and rope okay. This is how I simply move hives (though normally 4-5 deeps) when I have to....so you should be able to move 3 deeps fine! Dee- **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2008 04:46:26 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: C Hooper Subject: Writer Critical of Life Mel Honey Cancer Claims Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Writer Critical of Life Mel Honey Cancer Claims Honey Treatment Amounts to Sweet Nothing James Randerson, The Guardian (UK), 8/12/2008 A "new hope" for cancer sufferers or a jar of exorbitantly expensive honey? How the makers of Life Mel prey on the fear and desperation of patients http://apitherapy.blogspot.com/2008/08/writer-critical-of-life-mel-honey.html Sex sells. But fear, pain and desperation sell even more effectively. This press release from the creators of Life Mel honey is an object lesson in that despicable dark art. Their target is cancer patients struggling to deal with the horrible side-effects of their treatment: Chemotherapy is often terminated by patients wishing to live their final weeks or months without the harsh side effects of the treatment, but Life Mel offers new hope with less side effects. What is this miraculous "new hope"?... **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2008 07:37:50 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: =?UTF-8?Q?Peter_L_Borst?= Subject: Re: Bee collecting corn pollen Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit On Mon, 11 Aug 2008 12:28:15 -0400, Brian Ames wrote: > I also keep bees all the way south to the Iowa border. I don't hear from any commercial beekeepers or hobbyists that they have crashing hives in corn country in central and southern Mn. Right, and nobody has provided any facts to show that corn pollen might be the slightest bit harmful to bees. I wonder why they would collect it at a time when there are dozens of floral sources available -- if it wasn't any good? pb **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2008 19:01:16 +1000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Geoff Manning Subject: Re: Bee collecting corn pollen MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob Harrison" > Several beeks in my area sure reporting hives dwindling since the corn > started teaseling. If they dwindled immediately the corn started tasselling it would be reasonable to blame an insecticide. Though with neonicotinoid one would expect that the pollen had to be fed to the larvae before a problem showed. Double whammy, insecticide and poor quality pollen. Geoff Manning **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2008 23:51:06 +1000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Geoff Manning Subject: Re: Bee collecting corn pollen MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="UTF-8"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ----- Original Message ----- From: "Peter L Borst" > Right, and nobody has provided any facts to show that corn pollen might be > the slightest bit harmful to bees. I wonder why they would collect it at a > time when there are dozens of floral sources available -- if it wasn't any > good? It is not so much that it is harmful, rather only 14% protein. Not much of a problem if the hive is also collecting other superior pollen at the same time. A problem is that not all colonies collect the same pollens, some will concentrate on only one source, others will collect a nice mixture. Unlike nectar bees don't seem able to differentiate between the qualities of pollen. Some are however more attractive, possibly the oil content. Corn on its own becomes harmful if the bees raised on it are then asked to work hard before they are replaced by better fed bees. Short lived and likely to have high nosema loads. Geoff Manning **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2008 12:56:43 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Brian Ames Subject: Re: Bee collecting corn pollen Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit We only did a weekly sampling for one year and archived reference samples on slides to use later. So we took samples when corn was tasseling for sure. When we did find corn pollen it was only 10-15% of the pollen sample which showed up over a period of a couple of weeks.. I agree with Bob that corn pollen is sticky, gets stuck in the drawer screen and is messy. Over the years we have a pretty good idea by color and time on the calendar what pollen is coming in and can use the scope to verify new sources. We trap about 1000 pounds of pollen for sale each year. We have so much wetland area that when the flat land sources dry up Cattail, Jewel Weed and Purple Loosetrife kick in and so does goldenrod in early Aug. While we don't see much corn pollen here as we have such a wide variety of tree, shrub , wetland flowers and prairie pollen sources it could be a different story elsewhere. I have an idea of 2 commercial beeks who may have contacted Jerry B with CCD symptoms, as I have expressed here before they do have home addresses here in MN and the do keep bees here for 4-5 months, I'm not sure that that means we have CCD problem here in the area. I also have frequent contact with both Bee supply houses, university people, beeks at bee meetings, plus I run into probably 100 hobbyist and sideliner beekeepers (from MN IA, WI) at the mpls farmers market during the spring to Nov selling season. There is just not anyone claiming to have lost their bees to CCD on any large scale. I would not challenge Jerry's data that he has collected I'm just saying the data may not represent what's going on on the ground here. Jerrys data is valuable to a point but he has never claimed that it is a statistical sample of the whole population of beekeepers in the nation or a region or state. Rather its a sample of a population of people who contacted him so one cannot make any statements about how prevalent CCD is in the whole population of beekeepers in our region or state based on his data. Although people frequently misuse that data in media articles to extrapolate the data across the board and make doomsday statements that leave people believing the sky is falling and bees are going extinct etc.. When a researcher has limited data on a problem like this they could attempt to fill in the holes then by talking to many beekeepers in the area to see if their observations coincide with the data collected. I am suggesting they do not at least here where I live although I don't have Jerrys raw data either so I'm just a voice in the crowd. The whole problem with the data is people who have no CCD have no incentive to contact him in the way beeks who are seriously affected would so its biased. **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2008 10:15:15 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Walter Weller Subject: Re: Bee collecting corn pollen MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="UTF-8"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > From: "Peter L Borst" >> I wonder why they would collect it at a >> time when there are dozens of floral sources available -- if it wasn't >> any >> good? I've seen bees loading up with kaolinite powder at a paper mill nearby, and simultaneously licking out soft-drink cans lying around. Not much blooming I reckon, but there's really no protein in kaolin. Just white dust. Walter **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2008 10:26:27 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Mike Griggs Subject: Re: : Varroa - sorted out? By Metarhizium Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v926) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Entomopathogenic fungi are notoriously difficult to work with. Somewhere in the 19teens an entomopathogenic fungus was introduced in Mass. to help control Gypsy Moth. It apparently disappeared. However, in 1989 an unusually cool damp summer in the NE it was found to be causing mortality across NY. The fungus was possibly misidentified for years, but was spreading with the Gypsy Moth populations. In 1990 a Grasshopper fungus was introduced into Alaska in attempt to control a grasshopper population that had exploded near Delta Junction--again--the introduction was thought to be a failure until in 2000(ish) calls came back to our lab of huge epizootic in the area of release. In a hive there are huge barriers to overcome. Temperature, matching fungus to host, humidity concerns and activity of the bees all need to be factored. One might find a hot isolate that works well in lab & field tests but slow growth in commercial culturing may make it infeasible for production. A common practice in our lab is to pass the fungus through the host several times--this increases virulence sometimes several fold. Because the host organism is biological in nature and the control organism is also there are very specific timing, environmental and host activity (hygienic) that can reduce the effect. Looking at the history of using insect pathogenic fungi for control of insects -- progress is slow but progress is being made. After 20 years of work with these fungi I have seen many failures but am optimistic that progress is being made such that products are making it to market. Example--I was talking to a neighbor that produces thousands of bales of hay for the equestrian markets in the area. He is using a hay amendment (fungal antagonists) to reduce the build up of mold in bales of too much moisture. This research was started more than 15 years ago. Note: isolate selection (or species) will be the biggest first step. unfortunately, we have very little information on the genetics of pathogenic fungi to really understand the processes to select candidates for best control. Currently, labs use isolates that are "hot" work in the lab and are easy to grow. This may not be the best criteria for selecting something that works in the field under commercial beekeeping conditions. Mike Griggs Entomologist/ Support Scientist Biological Integrated Pest Management Unit President Finger Lakes Beekeepers **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2008 15:18:06 +0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Juanse Barros Subject: Winter Report from Chile MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline I have been fighting against winter mortality and Nosema ceranae for three year in a row now. The first year I didn't have a clue what was going on and I lost 30% of my 400 colonies during winter. It was a hard winter, lost of rain and cold weather. The second year I knew I had Nosema ceranae, but didn`t have fumagilin, so = I developed a method with Chlorine and Acetic Acid feeding. I still lost 40% of my 1200 colonies. It was the coldest winter in 80 years. All the above in the south of Chile. Lat : -39=BA During these past two season I have learned a lot about Nosema and autumn/winter managment. This past season I worked a massive experiment, dividing my colonies in 3 groups (C, A and B) Group C: 1400 colonies were kept in the same position after blueberry pollination. They were end of spring (november) nuclei. All of them were treat with amitraz for varroa after the queen was mated. They were feed wit= h 12 kg of HFCS with 5% fat free liquid protein, with 500 gr of pollen sustitute rich in fat and sterols (formula later) and also medicated with fumagilin (full dose as per label indication). This was done at middle of summer (15th february to 15th of march) for the bloom of golden rod. They are close to a town and the praire re bloom in autumn, so they have access to pollen. Around the end of May they were treated again with amitraz (good results with treatment as per sugar dusting sampling after treatment). Of this group I only have 20 dead colonies now (30th of July). By end of June out of 50 samples no nosema spore was found. Colonies look great, all over = 6 frames with bees and queens laying. Group A and B: 450 full developed colonies were moved - after blueberry pollination - to a honey site in the mountains 200 km south. They gave 70 k= g of honey in average. The main problem at this mountain is lack of pollen after 15th of february cause only Ulmo (Eucripthia cordifolia) blooms at this stage. The second problem is varroa build up because one wants the Ulm= o honey (our best honey) and do not treat for varroa so as not to contaminate it. Group A: 300 of them were feed with 1.5 kg of protein (pollen sustitute- formula later) and treated for varroa with formic acid in the middle of summer (15th february to 15th of march). Two months later, varroa load was under 3% but they were treated again for varroa with amitraz at the end of the honey season. Group B: 150 of them were treated with amitraz at the end of the honey season. Varroa load was very high, well over 10%. No nutrition for them, apart from Ulmo pollen. In both cases amitraz treatment worked ok as per sugar dusting sampling 30 days after treatment, less than 1% load. Both groups A and B were move 1000 km north at the end of May in search of better weather. Winter in the north was toughest than in the south, contrar= y to expectations. 20 days in a row with under zero temp at nigth and over 15=BAC during day. None for the bees to forage. In the south were group C stayed, temperature was always above zero but under 12=BAC. After winter solstice (23th of june) group A and B were stimulated giving 1 litre of 67=BA brix sugar syrup per week with 10% of fat free liquid prote= in. First three week the syrup had 2% of chlorine. For them on 2% of acetic acid. Now (30th of july) group A have 11% mortality while group B have 57% mortality. Out of the surviving colonies: Group A. have 54% over 5 frames of bees, 37% around 5 frames and 9% under 5 frames of bees Group B have 45% over 5 frames of bees, 28% around 5 frames and 27% under 5 frames of bees A small Nosema sample (5 cases per group) shows small to null spore count for group A and medium to high for group B. * My conclutions are.* Fumagilin works (group C), Chlorine+Acetic I do not know (group A and B). I do not have Nosema sampling before treatment. Nutrition works. The difference between group A and B is amazing. Varroa Control is a must!!! Stressing colonies during winter is not good. I am winning, winter mortality is 7.5% this season!!! * Pollen Sustitute formula:* 10 dry whole egg (43% protein, 37% fat) 1 dry pollen (21% protein, 7.5% fat) 15 Quinoa flour (15% protein, 5% fat, 9% starch)) 20 brewer yeast (43% protein, 1.7% fat) 1 canola oil (100% fat) 2 propolis in alcohol (25% concentration) 7 granulated sugar 44 HFCS --=20 Juanse Barros J. APIZUR S.A. Carrera 695 Gorbea - CHILE +56-45-271693 08-3613310 http://apiaraucania.blogspot.com/ juanseapi@gmail.com **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2008 14:22:53 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Chris Slade Subject: Re: Winter Report from Chile MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 12/08/2008 19:16:10 GMT Standard Time, juanseapi@GMAIL.COM writes: they were treated again for varroa with amitraz For how long do you expect to be able to use Amitraz effectively before resistance sets in? What will you use then? Chris **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2008 20:37:47 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Peter Edwards Subject: Re: Writer Critical of Life Mel Honey Cancer Claims MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="utf-8"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit 'Life Mel' no longer describe their (manufactured by honeybees) product as honey following searching questions from UK beekeepers. Best wishes Peter Edwards beekeepers at stratford-upon-avon.freeserve.co.uk www.stratford-upon-avon.freeserve.co.uk/ **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2008 22:54:10 +0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Juanse Barros Subject: Re: Winter Report from Chile In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline For how long do you expect to be able to use Amitraz effectively before resistance sets in? What will you use then? Chris About time before resistance sets in I have no idea. But I have decided not to change active principle till that happens. In the mean time I am learning to use formic acid, that is what I plan to use next. Formic is not easy to use, there are too many variables to consider /T, RH, colony strengh, etc. I think fornic acid is good for orgasmic beekeping, ja! -- Juanse Barros J. APIZUR S.A. Carrera 695 Gorbea - CHILE +56-45-271693 08-3613310 http://apiaraucania.blogspot.com/ juanseapi@gmail.com **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2008 19:06:02 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Darrell Subject: Re: Unlimited broodnest hives and migration. In-Reply-To: <20080811.223159.769.1@webmail04.dca.untd.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v753) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On 12-Aug-08, at 2:31 AM, waldig@netzero.net wrote: > the 3-deep hives are still very heavy. I seems they are too heavy > for efficient transporting. > > Hi Waldemar and all You didn't ask the question to have a discussion of singles vs doubles vs triples. Each have their place, advantages and disadvantages. We have to live with our choice. I use singles even though my bees are stationary. Bob Darrell Caledon Ontario Canada 44N80W **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2008 21:48:47 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: Re: Unlimited broodnest hives and migration. In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello Bob D. & All, Bob D. asks: > You didn't ask the question to have a discussion of singles vs doubles vs > triples. When I ran bees in Florida and had less hives I preferred singles. In my opinion singles are easy but singles need looked at often and careful feeding or the bees will hit the trees. You can get quite a bit of comb drawn using singles (and nucs). Foundation is a way to keep the bees busy. We have got a commercial beek in Missouri which runs around 1200 hives in singles in spring then combines for winter. He did send hives to California with us one year and his hives graded great. Doubles are the standard for migratory beeks. Easier too care for in many ways and in my opinion better to winter with than singles. You can winter in singles if you can get 60 pounds of feed on before winter and get out in spring ( Feb.) and feed if needed. You will many times get a bigger honey crop with a properly set up single than a double as quite a bit of your honey crop *can* go into the storage of the doubles. However there is a way to get much better honey production with doubles. Triples can produce larger hives in my opinion with some supplemental feeding. Without the bees will fill all three deeps with honey before moving into the supers. I do believe that the bees *seem* to winter better in three deeps in the north and its easy to take the bottom super away in spring because the bottom is usually empty of bees and honey. I personally do not know of a single commercial migratory beek which runs his bees on pallets in three deeps. Does a member of the list know of such a beek? David Hackenberg runs his bees in two deeps and a shallow. He has explained why but I am not sold. I also have tried and do not care for a deep and a medium or shallow but I have a friend which runs 8000 in a deep and a medium. However he is on the Alabama border. I like two deeps and prefer deep supers but have gone mostly to mediums as the deeps seem heavier than they did forty years ago. If I could turn back the clock I would put slats on the ends of all my boxes. Lifting boxes with the industry standard hand holds has deformed my fingers by creating muscles in my fingers in places A non beekeeper would not have muscles. I never really noticed till Sharon Gibbons ( Missouri lady commercial beekeeper) noticed my fingers and showed me hers. If you are a commercial beek look at your hands with your thumbs up. If your hands are like Sharon & Mine they will cup in the design to fit the standard hand holds. Our hypothesis is that those handholds are poor for lifting and it takes finger muscle to hold the fingers in the handhold. Years of lifting has formed the muscles. Jump in lurkers and give your thoughts. The list is always interested in the ways beeks keep bees. bob > * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * > * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * > **************************************************** **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2008 07:17:32 +0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Juanse Barros Subject: 10 or 8 frames boxes? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Hi every one Bob H last mail about how deeper get heavier at one ages and fingers muscles increase, remind me of an observation I did at Australia a couple of weeks ago. There I saw lots of beekeepers using standard langstroth hives in terms of frame size, but with boxes for only 8 frames. The opinion received when ask why differ from: A.- because they are lighther B.- Because ferals only contruct 7 to 8 combs. Any other opinions from downunder or anywhere else? -- Juanse Barros J. APIZUR S.A. Carrera 695 Gorbea - CHILE +56-45-271693 08-3613310 http://apiaraucania.blogspot.com/ juanseapi@gmail.com **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2008 22:44:54 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Tim Townsend Organization: TPLR Honey Farms Ltd. Subject: Re: Unlimited broodnest hives and migration. In-Reply-To: <014EFDE1925F4E49A13ACAB30CDD1063@bobPC> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Bob > > > Triples can produce larger hives in my opinion with some supplemental > feeding. Here in Alberta, they require no more feeding than 2 story colonies. > Without the bees will fill all three deeps with honey before moving > into the supers. I have been keeping triples for the last twenty years, but about 9 years ago we modified Farrar's system, the third goes on after the honey is pulled, then we feed and winter, in the spring late April early May, we reverse, around the middle of May we remove a full super split, ( 5 frames brood, nine frames bees), without hurting the parent colony, which is now a two story brood unit and ready for the honey flow. With this method we have been able to add as many splits/increase units as we wish, 600 this year, we used to run 1500-2000 units like this, but do not want to increase past approx 2000 colonies, so we now run about half the outfit in triples and the rest in doubles. We also run them on double pallets, not four packs, but we only do honey, no pollination. With a limited supply of bees, we have found this system works very well, not easy, but successful. Tim Townsend TPLR HONEY FARMS > I **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2008 04:43:40 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: C Hooper Subject: One in Three UK Beehives Wiped Out Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit One in Three UK Beehives Wiped Out Honeybee Population Collapses in UK as One in Three Hives Wiped Out in a Year By Arthur Martin, The Daily Mail (UK), 8/13/2008 http://apitherapy.blogspot.com/2008/08/one-in-three-uk-beehives-wiped-out.html The number of honeybees in the UK has dramatically declined this year, according to a survey of beekeepers. It found that nearly one in three beehives were wiped out during the winter and spring, prompting fears of a shortage of honey… **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2008 07:25:56 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Joe Mc Cool Subject: wasp poison In-Reply-To: <7eb65cc10808122217i2a7b8510h6da371bb935788d6@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Please, here in Ireland we are suffering from wasps like I have never seen before. We have tried all the usual tricks: destroying nests, setting out jam jars as traps. But still there are thousands of them. Is there any poison for wasps. Is there a poison that the wasps will carry back from a baited location to their nests ? Any other ideas ? Joe McCool **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2008 07:28:55 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dave Hamilton Subject: Re: wasp poison In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Joe I don't have a poison but I know how to trap a bunch, mud dabbers are big in Nebraska Cut a 2" hole in a 2 quart plastic coke bottle Put about 2 cups of vinegar in the bottom and add a banana peel. You'll be amazed how many you drown Dave **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2008 09:09:13 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: =?windows-1252?Q?Mike_Bassett?= Subject: Re: Unlimited broodnest hives and migration. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I have found with the three deep system that the bees form a smoke stack up the middle for the brood and put the honey on the sides so the brood will go right up to the honey supers, and they won't get honey bound usually. You also have to watch the bottom brood box as usually no brood can be raised there as it is pollen bound, which works out wonderfully if you want to make splits in the spring as the bees have plenty of pollen below and honey above and no matter how bad the weather the bees are booming in the spring and you can make early nucs. If you pull of the bottom box and recondition and then put back on(same as reversing) make sure and pulll out some of the frames of pollen and put in the top box so they can keep raising the brood while the box is off. **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2008 17:22:36 +0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Juanse Barros Subject: New Market report August 2008 Comments: To: honey_australia@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline www.skamberg.com/honey.htm Prices for new crop honey are 50% to 70% higher than last year at this time, depending on the type of honey. The health and wellness attributes of pure, natural honey have helped to increase its' use directly out of the bottle, as a food sweetener, and as a nutritious, long lasting energy source. This increased demand, along with a worldwide shortage of raw honey, is the main driver for steadily escalating raw honey prices. Increased energy and production costs have also contributed to the rising raw honey prices. -- Juanse Barros J. APIZUR S.A. Carrera 695 Gorbea - CHILE +56-45-271693 08-3613310 http://apiaraucania.blogspot.com/ juanseapi@gmail.com **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2008 15:39:46 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Robert Brenchley Subject: Re: One in Three UK Beehives Wiped Out MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I suspect at least part of this is going to be a cull of the less aware beekeepers, as resistant mites kill off hives which are still being treated with fluvalinate. Add a terrible summer last year, followed by an unusually long winter, and it's not hard to see why there might have been an unusully high level of losses! Regards, Robert Brenchley Birmingham UK **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2008 15:36:23 -0400 Reply-To: james.fischer@gmail.com Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: James Fischer Subject: Re: 10 or 8 frames boxes? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > standard langstroth hives in terms of > frame size, but with boxes for only 8 frames. If the boxes are narrower, and hold only 8 frames, then the motivation is to have 20% lighter honey supers, as you describe in (A) If the boxes are the same width as usual, but only contain 8 frames, each drawn out thicker, then the idea is to make uncapping easier, and save 20% on the capital investment in frames, and a certain amount of labor in getting the same amount of honey in less frames. Just to complicate matters further, I've run 9-frame supers on 10-frame brood chambers for years, which is yet another approach. But I've never heard anyone make claims about ferals constructing a limited number of combs, and I've removed lots of feral colonies from structures with a dozen or more combs, so I think that your choice (B) is based upon misinformation. **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2008 08:11:33 -0400 Reply-To: bee-quick@bee-quick.com Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: James Fischer Subject: Re: Varroa - sorted out? Metarhizum. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Barry quoted: > "...other attempts to develop a commercially viable > Metarhizum -based product have failed because the > fungus is rapidly removed from the hive by the bees > themselves as part of their normal hive cleaning > and maintenance behaviour." I can't speak for efforts elsewhere, but this is not an accurate assessment of the reason for the failure of the various fungi tested in the US. The various strains of Hirsutella simply did not work well at all no matter what was tried, and the Metarhizum did not work as well as cheaper and simpler non-proprietary approaches, such as Oxalic Acid and/or Formic acid. Longer exposure would not have helped. Even using strips, where a viable population could be exposed to bees brushing by for day after day, the kill ratio just wasn't where it needed to be. The problem here in the US was that the fungi simply did not kill enough of the phoretic mites when given a more than fair chance to do so, and obviously would not kill any of the mites in cells. I am, to my knowledge, the only Bee-L reader who has put Metarhizium anisopliae into any of his hives, and I never saw any large-scale hive cleaning going on, nor did I ever hear of any reports that the bees were cleaning the stuff out. Perhaps if one dusted the hives with a massive amount of the stuff, dunno. One could keep the fungi "alive" in the hive by removing screened bottoms from one's hive configurations, and allowing dead varroa to land on the floor of the (solid) bottom board. The idea here would be that the fungus keeps growing on the shells of the dead varroa, but even this would not get the fungus where it is needed, up in the brood chamber. > "HortResearch honeybee expert Dr Mark Goodwin says his team > have solved this problem by finding a way to keep the fungus > within the hive; ensuring populations remain high enough to > achieve mite control". But what sort of mite mortality are they seeing? > But even if it works, there is as yet no indication of > the cost of treatment There is really very little actual "cost of goods sold" in any of the mite control products. The bulk of the "cost" is the packaging (things like the plastic strips in foil pouches in boxes) and the massive costs of both getting approval from regulatory authorities, and obtaining product liability insurance. > and also will there be questions about possible fungus > contamination of honey? The beauty of the fungus approach is that it dies when it has no more varroa shells to feed upon. It simply would not "grow" on plain wax comb, or in (or on) honey. Of course, the quote above seems to indicate that Mark Goodwin might have overcome this "difficultly", so your mileage may vary. But I'd love to hear specifics on how the work in NZ has managed to keep a fungus population alive in a working bee colony without the bees shellacking over it all with a good thick coat of propolis. That's what's happened to everything I've wanted to "remain viable" in a beehive, from delicate sensors to simple pheromone lures and dispensers. Also, in a prior post on this subject, I played far too fast and loose with terminology, using "bacteria" and "fungus" as if they were synonyms. Yes, there is a difference. No, I don't give a hoot, as I can barely even pronounce "Metarhizium anisopliae"! :) **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2008 12:02:23 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Peter Subject: Re: wasp trap MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Where do you cut the 2" (50mm) hole? Close to the bottom I presume? P. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave Hamilton" > Cut a 2" hole in a 2 quart plastic coke bottle Put about 2 cups of vinegar in the bottom and add a banana peel. **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2008 22:21:47 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Peter Edwards Subject: Re: One in Three UK Beehives Wiped Out MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="utf-8"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit C Hooper wrote: > One in Three UK Beehives Wiped Out > > Honeybee Population Collapses in UK as One in Three Hives Wiped Out in a > Year > By Arthur Martin, The Daily Mail (UK), 8/13/2008 > http://apitherapy.blogspot.com/2008/08/one-in-three-uk-beehives-wiped-out.html Whilst this is true to some extent, there has been considerable hype about the cause, with some claiming that CCD has arrived in the UK. In fact, the situation is worse than the 30% quoted, because many colonies collapsed before winter arrived; I would put the annual figure at around 50%. As to the reason for these massive losses, varroa certainly played a major role - but UK beekeepers did not suddenly forget how to treat for varroa! No, the weather was the real culprit. May, June and July last year were abysmal with a combination of cold winds and rain throughout, culminating in the severe floods in July. Queens were unable to fly to mate - and if they had flown then they would have found that all the drones were safely tucked up indoors! So colonies that swarmed were unable to mate new queens. Our queen rearing programme was a complete disaster - great queen cells, great virgins, but very few mated queens. So many colonies went into winter in poor condition - small and with suspect queens. Those that survived came out of winter worse - many with just two or three frames of brood. A good spring would have helped, but instead we had a cold NE winds throughout May when the oilseed rape was in flower; this major source yielded virtually nothing and the colonies failed to recover. Since May we have had a few breaks, so queens have mated better than last year and the colonies have gathered some honey - but the crop is well down because of the winter losses and the poor condition of survivors. In addition, we have had to split colonies to fill all those empty boxes - and this has reduced the meagre crop even further. Some of us are hoping for something from the heather, but so far the August weather has been appalling; it seems that the UK now has a summer monsoon season. Best wishes Peter Edwards beekeepers at stratford-upon-avon.freeserve.co.uk www.stratford-upon-avon.freeserve.co.uk/ **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2008 23:35:27 +0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Juanse Barros Subject: Re: 10 or 8 frames boxes? In-Reply-To: <001f01c8fd7b$df006950$0201000a@j> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline James Aussies are not talking about feral "in structures" but rather "hanging down" from branches or human made branches (ie like a roof) I saw and have pictures of only one of them. This is a matter for Geof M, Trevor W or Peter D or any other Aussie in the list to answer. I am just rising the question. Ah, and I am talking about 8 frames boxes with 8 frames. Not 10 frames boxes with 8 frames. -- Juanse Barros J. APIZUR S.A. Carrera 695 Gorbea - CHILE +56-45-271693 08-3613310 http://apiaraucania.blogspot.com/ juanseapi@gmail.com **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2008 22:36:09 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Peter Edwards Subject: Re: wasp poison MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Joe asked about wasps: > Any other ideas ? You need to be careful about the type of trap that you use; it is crucial that no wasps escape because they will simply recruit their friends to come to the party! Jam jar traps may catch large numbers of wasps but, if you watch, many do actually escape. I had the same thing with wine bottle traps - they soon filled, but I seemed to have more and more wasps arriving every day. I have known beekeepers add a poison to wasp bait, but I am not sure that it does much good; it would have to be at the right strength not to kill the wasp before it returned to the nest and even then might not do any good (or harm depending whose side you are on!). Wasps do not feed their larvae with sweet material (the larvae are carnivores), and do not share food with each other a far as I am aware, so you might still only poison the adult wasps that take your bait. There would be a much greater danger to bees if they were attracted to the bait, as they would feed larvae and share the poisoned food. Peter **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2008 19:55:19 -0300 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Claude Hachey Subject: Re: wasp poison MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Here is something you may want to try - easy to make, not attractive to bees and worked very well for me...caught thousands. You can view posted pictures at the following link to the ORSBA Bee Board. http://orsba.proboards27.com/index.cgi?board=general&action=display&thread=1055 Claude Hachey **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2008 20:11:16 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Darrell Subject: Re: 10 or 8 frames boxes? In-Reply-To: <001f01c8fd7b$df006950$0201000a@j> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v753) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On 13-Aug-08, at 3:36 PM, James Fischer wrote: >> > Just to complicate matters further, I've run > 9-frame supers on 10-frame brood chambers > for years, which is yet another approach. > > hi Jim and all I use 9 frames in both brood and honey boxes. My reasoning, which has been confirmed many times helping others with their bees, is that you can hardly remove frames(self spacing) from 10 frame brood boxes without gelignite or some other brute force method. All my honey supers(mediums) are equipped with 9 frame spacers. I'm a small beekeeper and still use a 4 frame extractor(stainless) that I've had more than 30 years. As a result I use the centre frame of each honey super for cut comb honey. The centre frame is empty without foundation or even starter strips. This works well as long as the frames on either side are drawn. The other 8 frames make 2 balanced loads in the extractor. I was considering going to 8 frames in some supers because several people have stated that you get more honey in an 8 frame setup than 9 or 10. I read an article in a recent ABJ where a well known researcher(can't remember the name) suggested that the frame spacing should be consistent throughout the hive to assist in ventilation. All my equipment is 10 frame standard Langstroth. I've heard of using follower boards with 8 or 9 frames in the brood box but haven't tried them. Bob Darrell Caledon Ontario Canada 44N80W **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2008 02:56:05 +0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Juanse Barros Subject: UN agency launches scheme to protect bees, birds and other pollinators MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline http://www.un.org/apps/news/story.asp?NewsID=27651&Cr=&Cr1= -- Juanse Barros J. APIZUR S.A. Carrera 695 Gorbea - CHILE +56-45-271693 08-3613310 http://apiaraucania.blogspot.com/ juanseapi@gmail.com **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2008 20:31:35 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: Re: One in Three UK Beehives Wiped Out In-Reply-To: <01ff01c8fd8a$9847dde0$0400a8c0@office> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="utf-8"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello Peter & All, I might add a few comments although Peter's hypothesis sounds OK. > In fact, the situation is worse than the 30% quoted, because many colonies > collapsed before winter arrived; I would put the annual figure at around > 50%. Besides varroa issues collapsing in late summer and early fall can also be nosema ceranae. Has the U.K. checked for nosema ceranae? > No, the weather was the real culprit. I am not saying the weather was not a factor but bees can survive many weather issues. 50% losses indicates to me another issue and I would take samples and look deeper. A good spring would have helped, but > instead we had a cold NE winds throughout May when the oilseed rape was in > flower; this major source yielded virtually nothing and the colonies > failed to recover. In the U.S. most commercial beeks have went to pollen patties under poor weather conditions. I have seen patties which bring hives to life and many recipes are around but basically alike. In > addition, we have had to split colonies to fill all those empty boxes - > and this has reduced the meager crop even further. In our last drought if not for pollen patties and feeding we would have lost most hives. A pollen pattie can produce two frames of brood and a light syrup can make better queen acceptance. > Some of us are hoping for something from the heather, but so far the > August weather has been appalling; it seems that the UK now has a summer > monsoon If the weather is poor in my area I take the controls from "mother nature" and keep the bees in shape. In my opinion good nutrition makes for strong hives. Sorry for the losses in the U.K.. All areas of the world are reporting bee loses including China. bob **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2008 22:31:02 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: Re: UN agency launches scheme to protect bees, birds and other pollinators In-Reply-To: <7eb65cc10808131756s2e0a4795p7b3be289b87a1c76@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello All, I would let the mosquitoes die myself. I heard on CN frogs around the world are dying for unknown reasons but the frogs are not pollinators to my knowledge. In fact I did not know until I read the report that mosquitoes were considered pollinators. bob **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2008 05:43:50 +0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Juanse Barros Subject: At UNL investigate abiotic stres due to chemical exposure MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline http://nebraskafarmer.com/index.aspx?ascxid=fpStory&fpsid=35202&fpstid=2 At UNL, the grant will allow Ellis and entomologist Blair Siegfried to investigate abiotic stress due to chemical exposure and its impact on honeybee health. -- Juanse Barros J. APIZUR S.A. Carrera 695 Gorbea - CHILE +56-45-271693 08-3613310 http://apiaraucania.blogspot.com/ juanseapi@gmail.com **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2008 08:43:04 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Peter Edwards Subject: Re: One in Three UK Beehives Wiped Out MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="utf-8"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Bob commented: > Besides varroa issues collapsing in late summer and early fall can also be > nosema ceranae. Has the U.K. checked for nosema ceranae? Yes, it is present in parts of the UK, but does seem to have caused major problems so far. There was a major outbreak of CBPV in one area that took out several hundred colonies. > 50% losses indicates to me another issue and I would take > samples and look deeper. The 50% cover losses at the end of the poor summer and through the winter. The late summe losses here were due to failing queens that had simply not mated, or mated badly. We normally run on single brood, but we had to unite so many that I ended up with most colonies on doubles and some on triples. > I have seen patties which bring hives to life and many > recipes are around but basically alike. Few beekeepers in the UK use patties - usually it is simply not necessary. > Sorry for the losses in the U.K.. All areas of the world are reporting bee > loses including China. This is what I find to be most worrying. We expect local problems from time to time, but we now seem to have moved from a local into a global problem - or do we just have better communication these days? Best wishes Peter Edwards beekeepers at stratford-upon-avon.freeserve.co.uk www.stratford-upon-avon.freeserve.co.uk/ **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2008 09:05:22 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Peter Edwards Subject: Re: wasp trap MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dave Hamilton wrote: > Cut a 2" hole in a 2 quart plastic coke bottle Surely the hole should be smaller? A 2" hole would allow butterflies to enter. I have previously seen instructions for this type of trap with a hole size of 10mm (just under 1/2"). Best wishes Peter Edwards beekeepers at stratford-upon-avon.freeserve.co.uk www.stratford-upon-avon.freeserve.co.uk/ **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2008 19:02:27 +1000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Geoff Manning Subject: Re: 10 or 8 frames boxes? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ----- Original Message ----- From: "Juanse Barros" > This is a matter for Geof M, Trevor W or Peter D or any other Aussie in > the > list to answer. > I am just rising the question. > > Ah, and I am talking about 8 frames boxes with 8 frames. Not 10 frames > boxes > with 8 frames. OK I take the hint. Trevor is no doubt busy with Brisbane show. I will see him on Saturday. Both ten and eight frame are certainly used. My guess would be that 80% or more are tens, but it is only a guess. Generally eights are favoured in the (comparatively) colder areas, but not exclusively. In some cases it is no more than that the first hives the beekeeper bought were eights and they have stuck with them. Personally I don't like them. Working the bottom box seems harder to me, it is more crowded, bees spilling out around the feet, but the main reason is I find that they are more likely to be knocked over by cattle. Not a problem on pallets. These days with mechanical equipment weight is not so much of a problem, but did influence beekeepers in the past. I have never heard the 'feral' reason given. Both sizes are used by successful beekeepers. A single brood box is almost totally standard here. Eight framers will have eight in them. Tens on the other hand are mostly run with nine frames in both the brood box and the supers. If one uses ten frames in our standard size ten frame box the frames are difficult to remove, especially in the damper areas (where I live). As well the outside of the wall combs is not used much as there is not the proper bee space. In the days of hand uncapping some operators did run eight in the super, but a real pain to space the frames in every super. Manleys of course have eight as a matter of course. A few beekeepers use shallower honey supers of various depths. I have never seen any work done on the subject, but suspect that both sizes average the same amount of honey in a super, in that the eights when I still had some, were filled better on the outside of the wall combs most of the time. Geoff Manning **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2008 04:17:40 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: C Hooper Subject: Malaysian Kelulut Honey Known for Medicinal Properties Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Malaysian Kelulut Honey Known for Medicinal Properties Attracting Visitors Like Bees to Honey The New Straits Times (Malaysia), 8/14/2008 http://apitherapy.blogspot.com/2008/08/malaysian-kelulut-honey-known-for.html Now the 47-year-old owns and manages Trigona Bee, a company that produces bee products such as honey, royal jelly, bees' wax, propolis and pollen. Norliza said there were many types of honey depending on the source. "Kelulut bees' honey is popular as it is quite difficult to collect, and is known for its medicinal contents," she said when met at her booth at the Malaysia Agriculture, Horticulture and Agrotourism (Maha) Show here yesterday… **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2008 18:53:54 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Chris Slade Subject: Re: Winter Report from Chile MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 12/08/2008 22:51:03 GMT Standard Time, juanseapi@GMAIL.COM writes: About time before resistance sets in I have no idea. But I have decided not to change active principle till that happens. If a beekeeper on such a large scale as you are uses Amitraz on every colony every year, which seems to be what you are doing, then resistance is likely to occur sooner rather than later. Why not use it in rotation with other pest management systems with a different mode of action? Chris **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2008 22:11:54 +1000 Reply-To: queenbee Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: queenbee Subject: Re: 10 or 8 frames boxes? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >> This is a matter for Geof M, Trevor W or Peter D or any other Aussie in >> the >> list to answer. >> I am just rising the question. >> >> Ah, and I am talking about 8 frames boxes with 8 frames. Not 10 frames >> boxes >> with 8 frames. > > OK I take the hint. Trevor is no doubt busy with Brisbane show. I will > see him on Saturday. Not at the Show today. Doing some bee work for a change. As Geoff said, back on Saturday to clear up. I am not sure why the difference in Australia. As Geoff said the 8 framers are mainly in Victoria and some in New South Wales. South Australia has a majority of 10 framers and in Queensland it is the vast majority of 10 framers. Will leave the Western Australian situation to Peter. I use 9 frames in the 10 frame box. Why 10 frames are tight is that our 10 frame box is only 16 inches wide and not 16 1/4 as in the USA (I am told). The reason for the 1/4 less is because back when we started with the Langstroth hive, a lot of beekeepers used old kerosene cases (which held 4 X 4 gallon tins) as boxes . These were 16 inches wide so when they started using manufactured boxes they stayed with the 16 inches so they were interchangeable with the kerosene cases. I prefer the 9 frames in the 10 frame box for drone colonies. I find that having one full drone comb in an 8 frame box (leaving 7 frames for brood) seems to be a bit much compared to the 8 frames for brood plus the drone comb in the 10 frame box. Might have to do some looking at why we have 8's and 10's in Australia and what influenced the decision. Re the ferals, I have seen many in the open and some had less than 8 combs others had up to 12. In the tree situation, the number of combs depends on the size of the cavity. Trevor Weatherhead AUSTRALIA **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2008 14:20:15 +0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Juanse Barros Subject: Re: Winter Report from Chile In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Because that will probably create resistance to everything at the sametime and the cocktail in the wax could get dangerous. Because there are reports from other colleagues saying that varroa is resistance to coumaphos and others saying there is resistance to fluvalinate. -- Juanse Barros J. APIZUR S.A. Carrera 695 Gorbea - CHILE +56-45-271693 08-3613310 http://apiaraucania.blogspot.com/ juanseapi@gmail.com **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2008 15:35:58 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dave Cushman Subject: BIBBA Website Upgrade MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi all The BIBBA website has been a little neglected in recent years, but has now been given a facelift... http://bibba.com There are plans for further improvements and we are trying to advertise the details and booking form for the BIBBA conference that will take place on Saturday September 20th and Sunday September 21st 2008 at the National Bee Centre, NAC, Stoneleigh, Warwickshire, CV8 2LG. http://bibba.com/conference_2008.html There are practical and theory sessions on II and Morphometry as well as other subjects. However the distance of travel will put off many of the US readers from attending. One feature that will be useful to those in places remote from UK, is our shop, where you can now subscribe to the Bee Improvement magazine in UK pounds, US dollars or Euros. You can access the online BIBBA shop... http://apple.clickandbuild.com/cnb/shop/bibbashop and you can expect more items to be available in future, I find the fleece jacket very comfortable myself, so much so that my wife complains "you are always wearing that green jacket". You can see who the BIBBA trustees are and what function they perform in the organisation... http://bibba.com/admin.html -- Regards & Best 73s, Dave Cushman, G8MZY http://melliferabees.net Email: dave.cushman@lineone.net Short FallBack M/c, Build 7.21/2.01 **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * ****************************************************