From MAILER-DAEMON Sat Feb 28 11:03:41 2009 Return-Path: <> X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.8 (2007-02-13) on industrial X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-87.1 required=2.4 tests=ADVANCE_FEE_1,AWL, MAILTO_TO_SPAM_ADDR,SPF_HELO_PASS,USER_IN_WHITELIST autolearn=disabled version=3.1.8 X-Original-To: adamf@IBIBLIO.ORG Delivered-To: adamf@IBIBLIO.ORG Received: from listserv.albany.edu (unknown [169.226.1.24]) by metalab.unc.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9FB014836B for ; Sat, 28 Feb 2009 11:03:36 -0500 (EST) Received: from listserv.albany.edu (listserv.albany.edu [169.226.1.24]) by listserv.albany.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id n1SG3YWJ017258 for ; Sat, 28 Feb 2009 11:03:35 -0500 (EST) Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2009 11:03:35 -0500 From: "University at Albany LISTSERV Server (14.5)" Subject: File: "BEE-L LOG0809A" To: adamf@IBIBLIO.ORG Message-ID: Content-Length: 123814 Lines: 2867 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2008 09:34:56 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: =?windows-1252?Q?Yoon_Sik_Kim?= Subject: Re: Downsizing Body Size among Ferals Comments: To: Waldemar Galka Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Waldemar: For convenience, uniformity, and overall efficiency of my operation, I made the cutout, keeping the queen, and no sooner did the brood hatch out than I got rid of the messy and irregular combs, replacing it with Pierco foundation, thus forcing them to regress/progress back to “regular” (5.1mm?) size cells. I do not recall any particular problem in this transition, done pretty much in one season, a sign of their tremendous plasticity in changing environment. I have also seen similar “tiny bees” under the root area of a blackjack at the bottom of a pond on another occasion. I did not bother to “rescue” these because they were scrawny, mangy, and small in number, indicating the limited nest-cavity beneath the root system; I just told the homeowner to leave them alone since they have not bothered anyone. Probably the parent of the shoe-box colony must have been on a regular- size comb kept by someone a long time ago albeit there has been no beekeeper around since. Feeling a bit wiser these days, I would rather introduce them directly onto regular combs or foundation and start feeding them, rather than attaching the cutouts to either empty frames or Pierco, when the temperature allows me to, for one has to eventually scrape off irregular combs and start from scratch. Yoon **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2008 09:41:43 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Peter_L_Borst?= Subject: Re: Size of normal beehives? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit On Sun, 31 Aug 2008 05:43:37 GMT, waldig@netzero.net wrote: >The largest colony I came across this year felt like 12-20 lbs of bees So far I have been unable to find nor has anyone offered evidence of colonies that exceed 60,000 individuals. Of course, one could produce such a one by combining any number of colonies, but this appears to be the normal limit. I am most assuredly open to any further evidence that this number is occasionally exceeded, but at least one source mentions that an overly large colony (30,000) may actually fare worse in winter due to overheating. pb **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2008 10:09:43 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Chris Slade Subject: Downsizing body size anong ferals MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I have recently taken to letting the bees build their own comb in frames but without foundation. This year I noticed for the first time in an isolated one hive apiary on naturally drawn comb that there was an assortment of sizes of bee within the hive. The hive was doing as well as any elsewhere. The small ones didn't appear to be downy babies. In another apiary of 3 hives I noticed the same phenomenon in 2 of the hives, more so in one than the other. In the third hive the bees were very uniform in size and appearance. The hives with mixed sized bees were doing much better than the uniform one; the one where this was more strongly exhibited being the best. Chris **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2008 10:56:52 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: Commercial secrets reveled ( was Size of normal beehives?) In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello All, In Florida beekeeping we noticed that hives tend to drop back to around four frames of brood after a honey flow which makes populations drop fast. We found we had to feed a certain amount of syrup each week to make the queen / bees think a small flow was still on so the queen / bees would maintain the hive at what *we* considered the proper size to collect the honey from the next flow or strength for pollination. Of course the above rarely is important to the hobby beekeeper. In Missouri we start building the hive around 8 weeks prior to a honey flow. A slow tricking of the colony to increase size. California almond pollination: We used to simply drop a hive on 3=4 frames of brood into almonds and then let the bees build. A wonderful situation fot the Midwest beekeeper. Then a certain California broker spoiled our plans which has resulted in having to set in motion a 4=8 week tricking of the bees for almond pollination (costly and results with swarming and other issues we did not have before on return of the hives to the Midwest). The interesting point although the broker has a point is that almonds always got pollinated with those field run bees and at times produced record crops. Now much of the profits go to bringing in hives early and placing pollen patties and feeding to excess so hives will grade which in turn causes Midwest beeks problems on the hives return. 37 swarms from a single semi load this spring the first warm day after arrival. The broker claims he has the beeks interests at heart but many of us feel he has the growers interests at heart. Out of state beeks prefer the old way but California beeks like the new way as they can *sell* the excess bees to package producers. Midwest beeks can only make splits. In Missouri we can usally work bees in late March but from Nebraska north the bees need taken south and split because if brought north in late March the bees are so strong they hit the trees the first warm day. Lloyd Seachrist ( the famous trouble shooter for the USDA-ARS) spoke on the subject in his book "Honey Getting" of bees always dropping to around 3-4 frames of brood/eggs when no flow exists. Sadly most commercial out of state beeks lack a leader and let a California broker which controls only 2% of the hives going into almond pollination set the rules or *drive the train*. His plan clearly works for California beeks but is not of value *in my opinion* for the other two thirds of commercial beeks which bring bees into almonds. I agree that hives as strong as he suggests should command a higher price but to suggest that all hives going into almonds need to be at such a level does not make sense. bob **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2008 14:58:39 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "=?windows-1252?Q?J._Waggle?=" Subject: Paris Green & National Honey Month Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hello, * Paris Green I am seeking earliest references to beekeepers claiming bee mortality caused by pesticides. The earliest reference I have so far is from 1891. At the time an arsenic- based chemical known as Paris Green was being used on fruit trees. The confrontation began with beekeepers claiming “great mortality among bees” caused by the use Paris Green on fruit trees. Supporters of Paris Green claimed that thee arsenic would not reach the nectar of blossoms, and, being an insoluble substance, could not affect the bees or be communicated to the honey. Prof Lintner, said that in his opinion “fruit growers who do not use Paris Green as a remedy against caterpillars infesting fruit trees are guilty of culpable negligence.” Prof. Cook, then makes a positive assertion that honey bees are killed in large numbers through the arsenical spraying of fruit trees. Cook stated that "everyone of the United States should pass a, law making it a misdemeanor to spray fruit trees while in blossom." * National Honey Month In celebration of National Honey Month, the message archives at the Historical Honeybee Articles list serve will be open for public viewing. Fear not to approach! I here present thee with a hive of bees, laden some with wax, and some with honey. Fear not to approach! There are no Wasps, there are no Hornets here. If some wanton Bee should chance to buzz about thine ears, stand thy ground and hold thy hands: there's none will sting thee if thou strike not first. If any do, she hath honey in her bag will cure thee too. -Quarles Historical Honeybee Articles http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/HistoricalHoneybeeArticles/ Best Wishes, Joe "When Noah went into the Ark, he is reported to have taken a pair of each kind of animals with him, but I suspect he had to take three bees, a queen, a drone and a worker," -C.C. Miller, 1913 **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2008 18:24:09 GMT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "waldig@netzero.net" Subject: Re: Size of normal beehives? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit >>...at least one source mentions that an overly large colony (30,000) may actually fare worse in winter due to overheating. Or rather due to overconsumption of stores when broodrearing resumes in mid-winter. I think the feral colonies that overwinter best are those that, with a big population in the first 3/4 of the active season, swarm and put away big stores of honey and drop the population to an optimal* size in the 1/4 of the season as they back fill the nest with late summer/fall nectar. Waldemar *for a given area **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2008 17:05:24 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: randy oliver Subject: Re: Commercial secrets reveled ( was Size of normal beehives?) In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline > > >I agree that hives as strong as he suggests should command a higher price > but to suggest that all hives going into almonds need to be at such a level > does not make sense. Hi Bob, Although I am loathe to speak for others, that broker does not suggest that all hives be at 8-frame level, and in fact offered 4-frame colonies last year at "discount." He had essentially had zero takers among the growers that he supplies bees to. The California market is wide open--no one controls the prices. You can offer whatever you've got, and will likely find a taker. However, research data, both published, and yet to be published, have made it clear that an 8-framer moves two to four times as much pollen as a 4-framer, and should therefore rent for two to four times as much. However, some growers are afraid to replace three 4-framers with one 8-framer, although the strong colony would do as much work. I personally would be happy to see you get $100 for your 4-framers, and for me to get $300 for my 10-12-framers. The real issue is going to be the cost of hauling four frames of bees to California. Your suggestion of shaking a single box full of bees is good. Ship the most bees possible for the freight. However, for them to be efficient pollinators, they'd need a second brood chamber to maintain necessary space. I understand the problem of returning with busting out colonies. But that is not the problem of the person paying the rent. As you said before, that broker only controls a small percentage of the colonies placed. Another broker actually places more bees. And many beekeepers place their own. The better brokers simply respond to the requests of those beekeepers with strong colonies to be paid accordingly. Four-frame colonies set the foundation for price, and many growers will take them. If I didn't get a premium for my 12-framers, I'd just split them three ways, and get paid for three four framers out of each. But it would be more reasonable to simply be paid more. Bob, the price is set by the market forces of supply and demand, not by any individual. You are welcome to haul your bees to California (feel free to stop by one of our Agricultural inspection stations for a change). You are free to charge whatever you want, for whatever strength colonies you want. Plenty of 4-framers get placed. No reason to hammer on any particular broker. Look me up when you're out here! Randy Oliver **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2008 21:15:15 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Jerry Bromenshenk Subject: Re: Paris Green & National Honey Month MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I've done a lot of arsenic analyses in bees in the U.S. Its been many years since I've looked at the historical data, but I dug much of it out in the 70s. Paris Green was invented by a Swedish chemist, Carl Scheele, around 1775 - actually he invented Scheele's Green, as a pigment. Paris Green or Emerald Green was a later modification. Both have been used as insecticides. It took until the 1830s to develop a method of analysis sensitive enough to pick it up on sprayed fruit. The original insecticides were based on inorganic elements like arsenic, copper, lead, sulfur. Surprisingly, no one thought that spraying a plant would pose a threat to bees. They assumed that only insects eating leaves/stems would be affected. Similary, Scheele's Green and Paris Green were use in wallpapers as colorants and in the glue. It turned out that children in Italy in the 1890s were poisoned by aresenic, especially in damp climates with lots of mildew. The inorganic insecticides were used from the late 1800s through WWII, when DDT and other organic insecticides came into widespread use (especially post war). In orchards of the NW, we can still pick up arsenic residues in soils and in bees. During the early 1900s, beekeepers also discovered that the same toxic chemicals as used in inorganic pesticides were also released by many industrial processes, such as copper smelters. I suspect that your 1891 reference is probably about right. There wouldn't have been any way to detect it until the 30s, and in general, it took some time to for it to occur to anyone that arsenic poisoning could occur in ways other than direct consumption of the poison. Because of industrial bee kills, the authorities on arsenic and the poisoning of bees were Maurizio in Europe and another group of scientists in Utah (both from the 1940s-60s). Their published papers reference the older literature on arsenical pesticides - it took some time to figure out that industrial sources of arsenic could have the same effects as arsenical spraying, and it was some time before anyone thought to analyze the bees near heavy industry. The beekeepers knew that it was something in the 'smoke'; they didn't know that the smoke could include things like arsenic. FYI, we have had industrial poisoning of bees, cattle, and horses from arsenic - in MT while I've been at UM I've been involved in several studies and served as an expert witness for the affected beekeepers. Jerry Jerry **************It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel deal here. (http://information.travel.aol.com/deals?ncid=aoltrv00050000000047) **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2008 18:37:00 GMT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "waldig@netzero.net" Subject: Re: Downsizing body size anong ferals Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit >>I have recently taken to letting the bees build their own comb in frames but without foundation. Do you, or anyone else, have a good system for producing good combs in this approach? I'd like to do the same but still have not worked out one detail. Namely, when bees are introduced to a nest space (hive), they *measure* its shape and then start their honey combs with a certain cells size. The first combs, that will be the *center combs*, will often have a smaller cell size as the queen will lay in them right away. The upper top portions of the adjacent combs will often have huge cells that are very deep as well. One will observe cell size reduction as one goes down. I think this is ideal and for the bees. I would like to have the bees draw out their frame combs in a 3-deep hive with the vertical cell size reduction seen in the wild. I would not interchange the frames on the bees once they are drawn out. My problem is that, to draw out straight combs one needs to give the bees one deep at a time... so they initially think they only have a single deep nest for the cell reduction... Any clever suggestion or ideas? I guess if the bottom deep is drawn out with a cell size gradation then the added upper deeps will have larger storage cells... I'll have to attempt this next year... Waldemar **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2008 22:29:11 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: David MacFawn Subject: Re: Paris Green & National Honey Month MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This is in line with my experience. My Grandfather was a dairy farmer and beekeeper in Maryland. In the 1960's when I was a kid and my Grandfather was in his early 80's he use Paris Green on his garden and fruit trees around his hives. He was thinking about the bugs eating the fruit/leaves and not poising his bees or himself. I seem to remember him saying that it had been outlawed then but he still had some that he kept because it "worked." Dave M **************It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel deal here. (http://information.travel.aol.com/deals?ncid=aoltrv00050000000047) **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2008 04:09:10 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: C Hooper Subject: Bee Pollen Recommended for Hot Flashes Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Bee Pollen Recommended for Hot Flashes Dr. Gott: Bee Pollen Assuages Hot Flashes Northwest Herald (USA), 9/1/2008 http://apitherapy.blogspot.com/2008/09/bee-pollen-recommended-for-hot-flashes.html Dear Dr. Gott: I read your letter from the 57-year-old lady with hot flashes. I also was bothered with the problem until someone told me to take bee pollen. I took 550 milligrams twice daily and haven’t had any flashes for years. I hope you can pass this on... **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2008 04:09:36 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: C Hooper Subject: Propolis Component Inhibits Growth of Tumor Cells Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Propolis Component Inhibits Growth of Tumor Cells Caffeic Acid Phenethyl Ester Preferentially Enhanced Radiosensitizing and Increased Oxidative Stress in Medulloblastoma Cell Line Child's Nervous System, Issue Volume 24, Number 9 / September, 2008 http://apitherapy.blogspot.com/2008/09/propolis-component-inhibits-growth-of.html Abstract: Objectives Caffeic acid phenethyl ester (CAPE), an active component of propolis, was recently reported to have radiosensitizing effects on medulloblastoma (MB) cells. However, the mechanisms of radiosensitivity involved in medulloblastoma cells are still unclear. The specific aim of this study was to investigate the role of CAPE-induced oxidative stress to influence of radiosensitivity and anti-proliferative effects in medulloblastoma cells… **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2008 07:40:27 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "Peter L. Borst" Subject: Optimal Colony Size MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Greetings Apropos of the discussion on colony size is this question: what is the optimal size for the health of the colony? Farrar and others showed that honey production goes way up with very large colonies. For example, one hive of 60 thousand can produce 50 percent more honey than 4 hives with 15 thousand bees each. That's why Farrar experimented with two queen colonies, which actually could have had 120 thousand bees in them However, Harbo showed that the optimal size for producing bees was a smaller colony. And as I mentioned previously, very large colonies may not be ideal for over-wintering. Pollinating units do not have to be overlarge, either. So the question arises, what is the ideal size for such things as hygiene, disease resistance, colony defense, etc.? I don't know this, but I can point out that in nature very large colonies are not the general rule. Further, in other branches of agriculture the push for productivity has repeatedly resulted in a trade off for pest and disease resistance, vigor, etc. Perhaps a bee colony can become "top heavy", and lose a certain degree of its efficiency, like a large unmanageable company. Maybe a compact medium sized colony is more healthy on the whole, than great big hives. I have noticed that strong hives succumbed to mites where smaller ones didn't. It's possible that a very large hive becomes preoccupied with the huge amount of honey pouring in and fails to monitor other important activities. -- Peter L Borst Danby, NY USA 42.35, -76.50 http://picasaweb.google.com/peterlborst **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2008 09:55:12 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Jerry Wallace Subject: Re: 2 queen hives In-Reply-To: <3dcef4a10808301104l1f02c504v46b204a22cca234b@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" The side by side configuration in two deeps would probably work pretty well for me in my area and?I'm going to try it next year.? I have on occasion made splits in 5 frame nucs and then just kept on stacking more nucs on top as the bees built up when I ran out of deeps.? I have never observed the queen to move higher than the second deep nuc. **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2008 11:27:20 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Aaron Morris Subject: Re: 2 queen hives In-Reply-To: <200809021359.m82DhK2Q021078@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Noteworthy about the double deep, side by side, two queen hive is that it has become a popular configuration due to promotion by Dennis van Engelsdorp (Pa. State Apiarist) as a handy setup for drone trapping Varroa control. Side by side brood chambers are supered in the middle of the brood chambers, with half covers to close each side, and a full cover over the supers. The drone trapping Varroa control aspect comes from keeping a drone frame under the half cover in each of the component hives. The beauty of this configuration is ready and easy access to the drone frame without having to remove the honey supers! Last update I heard was the control achieved did not equal that of a two drone frame removal regimen but the data was preliminary. Has anyone heard a current update? Aaron Morris - thinking every little bit helps! **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2008 13:22:40 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Jerry Bromenshenk Subject: Hive Weight MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit All We're finalizing our Smart Hive system in cooperation with our manufacturing partner. Bee-L members can help us with the last aspects of the design. The Smart Hive is an electronic system, with satellite communications, that will report to your cell phone or computer. The purpose is to provide management information from a distance - especially for commercial beekeepers with bee colonies distributed over hundreds or thousands of miles. One of the main components is a built-in hive scale. The cost of this component is related to the range and to the sensitivity. If you want a balance that can go from 1 pound to 500 pounds, with 0.1 pound resolution, its going to be pricey. So, here's are the questions - and you can send your responses to me so that we don't overflow Bee-L: What is the preferred maximum hive weight? For example, 100 lbs, 200? 300? More? I'm asking what is the maximum for ONE hive full of bees, frames, honey that is likely to need to be weighed. What is the preferred minimum hive weight? 35 lb, more, less? What is the required sensitivity? Do you need 0.001 lb, 0.01 lb, 0.1 lb, 1 lb, 5 lb, etc ? Consider these questions from the standpoint of managing a colony. When is it going to need the addition of honey supers? When is it starving? When is it ok? What weight information do you need to answer these questions. Again, something that can weigh a hive in the range of 35 lbs to 300 lbs, with a +5 pound sensitivity (weights to the nearest 5 lbs) will cost us and you much less than a scale with a range of 5 lbs to 500, and a sensitivity of + 0.1 lb. Thanks Jerry **************It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel deal here. (http://information.travel.aol.com/deals?ncid=aoltrv00050000000047) **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2008 17:54:36 GMT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "deknow@netzero.net" Subject: viruses....pathogens, benign, or beneficial? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit came across this...i suspect that this is the first of many as our understanding of how larger organisms interact with microbes. this isn't really bee related, but claims to be the first instance of known "beneficial virus". deknow http://www.newscientist.com/channel/health/cancer/mg19826615.100-leukaemia-virus-may-protect-against-stomach-cancer.html A VIRUS that occasionally causes leukaemia may have a good side. People in Kamigoto, Japan, have high rates of infection with human T-lymphotropic virus (HTLV-1), which can cause leukaemia. They also seem unusually free of stomach cancer, despite being no less likely than other populations to be infected with the bacterium that can trigger the disease. When Satohiro Matsumoto of Narao Hospital in Nagasaki compared 500 residents carrying HTLV-1 and 500 free of the virus, 7 per cent of those who were virus-free developed stomach cancer, about three times the incidence in those with the virus (The Journal of Infectious Diseases, vol 198, p 10). While many bacteria are good for us, this is the first known case of a beneficial virus. **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2008 11:05:23 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: randy oliver Subject: Re: Optimal Colony Size In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline > > Peter said: > Perhaps a bee colony can become "top heavy", and lose a certain degree > of its efficiency, like a large unmanageable company. Dr. Schmidt-Hemple, in Parasites in Social Insects supports that view. Large colonies of social insects tend to be more prone toward parasite infection. However, that is a tradeoff in natural selection, since large colonies also produce more reproductives. Randy Oliver **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2008 14:21:23 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: randy oliver Subject: Amitraz strips registered in Canada MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline On the 28 of August 2008, at the request of Canadian Honey Council and several provinces (i.e. Alberta, Saskatchewan, Manitoba, New Brunswick, Nov= a Scotia and Prince Edward Island) the Pest Management Regulatory Agency (PMRA) approved the Emergency Registration of Apivar (R) (Veto-Pharma =96 France) for the control of varroa mite in honey bee colonies in the fore mentioned provinces. Apivar (R) has a proven track record of effective control of varroa mites in New Zealand and many European countries. As part of the conditions of the Emergency Registration of Apivar(R), PMRA requires that at the point of sale, beekeepers wanting to purchase and use the product must sign a declaration form indicating that they understand an= d agree to the conditions of the ER (see below). Manitoba Agriculture Food and Rural Initiatives (MAFRI) has accepted administering the stewardship of Apivar use in Manitoba as outlined by the PMRA. The Bee Maid bee supply outlet will be the official vendor of Apivar(R) in Manitoba. Each beekeeper will be able to buy a number of strips enough for treating his/her registered colonies up to 2 strips per brood chamber/colony. The collection of information will be provided to PMRA and the unused strips will have to be shipped back to the vendor for reimbursement prior to April 27, 2009. Any beekeeper that uses illegal products or formulations will be prosecuted by PMRA according the Pest Control Products Act. Randy Oliver **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2008 20:08:05 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Brian Ames Subject: Re: Amitraz strips registered in Canada Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Randy what ever happened to the Oxalic Acid registration? any chance Amitraz will be given a label here in USA? **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2008 00:44:52 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: James Fischer Subject: HFCS Refiners, Getting Desperate, Start Buying Ad Space MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline The pressure to avoid HFCS-laden packaged food products seems to have prompted the makers of HFCS to get more aggressive in their "message marketing". Here's their website: http://www.sweetsurprise.com Where you can find ads like this one: http://www.sweetsurprise.com/printads.php?filename=HairdresserMagazineAd.pdf which says, among other things: "Truth is, high fructose corn syrup is nutritionally the same as table sugar and honey." The website also points you to: http://www.hfcsfacts.com/ Which points out that the FDA is willing to let HFCS be called "natural" as in "a natural sweetener", stating: "HFCS is made from corn, a natural grain product. HFCS contains no artificial or synthetic ingredients or color additives and meets the Food and Drug Administration's requirements for use of the term 'natural'." Funny, I kinda thought that they needed a few enzymes and chemicals to make HFCS, and that none of them were "natural" in name or origin. Now, how long before they mention their product does not have any of the miticide residues known to have impact on hive health, or the trace-level pesticide residues some beekeepers keep pointing to with accusatory fingers, despite the lack of anything consistent to point at? **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2008 12:35:03 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Brian Gallagher Subject: Conversion - Honey - Volume to Weight In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I am trying to find a conversion table or formula to convert the size of a glass jar (292ml) to a weight of honey (in lbs. or oz.). Containers seem to be sold by metric volume but we need to sell honey in the US by weight. Converting to fluid ounces doesn't work. I can't find this using a Google search. Does anyone know of a source? Thanks. Brian Gallagher **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2008 13:20:23 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Chris Slade Subject: Re: Conversion - Honey - Volume to Weight MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I have it in my mind, whence I don't know - Wedmore maybe -that the relative density of honey is 1.6 which would make your container hold something very close to a pound of honey. Chris **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2008 14:15:11 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Aaron Morris Subject: Re: Conversion - Honey - Volume to Weight MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit This message was originally submitted by Dmacfawn@AOL.COM to the BEE-L list at LISTSERV.ALBANY.EDU. It was edited to remove quotes of previously posted material. -----Original Message----- From: Dmacfawn@aol.com [mailto:Dmacfawn@aol.com] Subject: Re: [BEE-L] Conversion - Honey - Volume to Weight >From the book that Chris Slade and I (David MacFawn) are working on Honey is denser than other liquids. 1-qt jar is not 32 oz, but 44 oz OR 1.247 kg. by weight 1 pt jar is not 16 oz, but 22 oz OR 623 gram. US pints and quarts are smaller than the UK. (The imperial version is 20 imperial fluid ounces and is equivalent to 568 mL, while the U.S. version is 16 U.S. fluid ounces and is equivalent to 473 mL). Honey is denser than other liquids, a 12 US ounce jar equals one standard measuring cup. **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2008 14:06:20 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: kurt Subject: ""Nectar is less like a soft drink and more like a hard drink" In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v753.1) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Chemical & Engineering News September 1, 2008 Volume 86, Number 35, p. 11 http://pubs.acs.org/cen/news/86/i35/8635notw4.html Two-Faced Flowers Tobacco plants add nicotine to their nectar to improve cross-pollination Sarah Everts FLOWERS USE sweet-smelling nectar to entice pollinators. But a new study shows that some plants prevent birds and insects from binge drinking by lacing the attractive potion in their blooms with a little poison. Effective cross-pollination is contingent on pollinators traveling from one flower to the next. If nectar is too sweet, pollinators might sate themselves at a single plant, explains Ian T. Baldwin of Max Planck Institute for Chemical Ecology, in Jena, Germany, who led the study. "Adding the deterrent is the plant's way of saying, 'Move along, we need a job done here,' " comments Robert A. Raguso, a chemical ecologist at Cornell University. "The plant needs a way to show pollinators the door." Baldwin's team found that pollinators are first enticed to the flowers of Utah's native Nicotiana attenuata tobacco plant with a cocktail of volatile attractants, the most potent of which is benzyl acetone. But the plant also adds a dose of bitter nicotine to ensure only fleeting visits from pollinating hummingbirds, restricting their nectar intake to just two microliter sips, Baldwin says. To show that adding a little poison to the nectar enables cross- pollination, the researchers engineered tobacco plants that cannot produce nicotine and benzyl acetone. To do so, they introduced sequences of interfering RNA, or RNAi, into the tobacco plant genome that block the production of essential enzymes in the nicotine and benzyl acetone biosynthetic pathways. Then the researchers did field tests to evaluate the ability of normal and engineered plants to cross-pollinate. They found that nicotine enabled tobacco to genetically diversify its progeny (Science 2008, 321, 1200). Adding feeding deterrents to nectar is probably used by other plants that, like tobacco, can also rely on self-pollination, Raguso notes. "The tobacco plant has a contingency plan," because it can also self- pollinate, Raguso says. "If you can already ensure a profit" that is, seed production through self-pollination, "then you can afford to toy with your pollinator," he adds. "It's an all-encompassing study," comments L. Irene Terry, a chemical ecologist at the University of Utah. "They use not only molecular genetics and plant bioengineering to obtain the traits they want in the plants, but they also follow up this work with chemical analyses, field, and pollinator behavior studies." "People who have worked in pollination have long claimed that nectar is sugar water, like a soft drink," Baldwin adds. "Nectar is less like a soft drink and more like a hard drink that, like whiskey, contains a mix of sweet and harmful ingredients." **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2008 14:13:53 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Jon Molesa Subject: Re: Conversion - Honey - Volume to Weight In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline A 1 quart jar of honey holds approximately 2-3 lbs of honey. It depends on the water/valume of the honey. The thicker the honey the less water. By most account it's closer to 3 lbs/quart jar. -- Jon Molesa GPG ID: DAA35239 http://rjmolesa.com **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2008 23:35:21 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Peter Edwards Subject: Re: Conversion - Honey - Volume to Weight MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Chris wrote: > I have it in my mind, whence I don't know - Wedmore maybe -that the > relative > density of honey is 1.6 White (1975) gave values as shown here: http://www.fao.org/docrep/w0076e/w0076e04.htm I had always thought 1.42 was generally correct for the honeys from the UK, where the average wate content seems to be around 17.5%. Best wishes Peter Edwards beekeepers at stratford-upon-avon.freeserve.co.uk www.stratford-upon-avon.freeserve.co.uk/ **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2008 20:57:45 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "=?windows-1252?Q?J._Waggle?=" Subject: Early Migratory Beekeeping in America Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hello, Would anyone be able to provide me with the earliest reference to early migratory beekeeping in America? I found this reference to what appears to be a bee trader taking his bees to sell in Quebec. But so far, nothing in the way of early migratory beekeeping. Republican Banner Tuesday, July 23, 1833 Gettysburg, Pennsylvania “A trader in bees, during the last month, carried safely several boxes of hives from Kennebeck, in Maine, to Quebec. He traveled during the night, and set his bees out during the day to feed and continue their usual activity and regularity.” PS. Thanks to those that responded to my Paris Green inquiry. Reading some of the older material, I’m finding many of the great names in beekeeping were engaged in a vigorous battle against the use of Paris Green. It appears beekeepers then as they are now, still fighting to protect the environment. Best Wishes, Joe http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/HistoricalHoneybeeArticles/ “We got to learn conservation . . . or we will commit national suicide by the destruction of our resources.” -Frank C. Pellett, 1947 **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2008 22:20:51 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Darrell Subject: Re: Conversion - Honey - Volume to Weight In-Reply-To: <901BC2E03A0141769F167A9970D42314@office> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v753) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi All In Canada the commercial packers use 750ml jars for 1kg honey. They put out honey at precisely the maximum water content allowed. 750ml = 26 imp fl oz = 25.36 US fl oz. 1 lb = 454gm. Therefore 1 lb honey = 11.5 US fl oz = 11.8 imp fl oz = 340.5 ml. If your honey is lower water content than allowed your 12 US fl oz jars will hold more than 1 lb of honey. I have seen people in the grocery comparing local honey (better flavour, lower water content etc) with commercial brand honey and choosing the latter because the local honey jar wasn't full (still had 1kg honey in it) and had a layer of bubbles on top. Raise the level of the honey in the jar and raise the price accordingly. Bob Darrell Caledon Ontario Canada 44N80W **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2008 03:07:45 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: C Hooper Subject: Video: Honey Used to Treat Soldiers in Iraq Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Video: Honey Used to Treat Soldiers in Iraq Healing Power of Honey Fox News, 8/19/2008 http://apitherapy.blogspot.com/2008/09/video-honey-used-to-treat-soldiers-in.html Honey isn’t just being used to sweeten your tea anymore. Now doctors are using it to help patients heal quicker. **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2008 10:33:19 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: =?windows-1252?Q?Fred_Boucher?= Subject: Re: Conversion - Honey - Volume to Weight Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit The national honey board at the following URL has the weight of honey at 12 LBs per gallon. The rest is just math. http://www.honey.com/foodindustry/techspecs/techglossary.asp Weight The weight of honey varies slightly with the moisture content. One gallon of honey weighs approximately 12 lbs. Best, Fred So Shore, MA **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2008 08:19:05 -0700 Reply-To: deelusbybeekeeper@yahoo.com Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dee Lusby Subject: Re: HFCS Refiners, Getting Desperate, Start Buying Ad Space In-Reply-To: <7b2725290809022144q1a97c5c9v8255fc591034839a@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Jim Writes: which says, among other things: "Truth is, high fructose corn syrup is nutritionally the same as table sugar and honey." Reply: How can they say this? Corn is but one plant and the bees gather from many.= Unless they talking more about filtered honey without the sublethal floati= ng particles of pollen and propolis. But stil, just how can this be compare= d to real fresh raw honey, and treatment free at that, knowing how corn syr= up is processed? Would hate to see honey even compared to white sugar too! = No, corn syrup and honey are two different things nutritionally. =A0 So could you please post more on the manufacture of corn syrup for others t= o be aware of for the nastyness of it? =A0 Dee A. Lusby =A0=0A=0A=0A **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2008 13:33:41 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Brian Ames Subject: Whatever happened to CCD? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Its fall now and I can't recall seeing or hearing of any new CCD reports since last winter and early spring. Are new cases not being reported in the news or online? or is there a seasonal nature to CCD that is mostly Nov-March? We hear occasionally of hives here on Bee-L crashing but no references to leaving brood behind and classic CCD symptoms. If it was a pathogen one would think that it would be randomly affecting anyone but yet Jerry B noted many of last years victims were repeats of the year before. **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2008 14:30:15 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Jerry Bromenshenk Subject: Re: Whatever happened to CCD? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit CCD, as defined by the symptoms, 'disappears' in the summer. It has tended to re-merge each fall, starting as early as August in some cases, but becoming more evident by October/November. We are beginning to get an escalating number of calls from beekeepers with colony loss problems. Now that we can better see what these bees do and do not have in terms of pathogens, we hope to be able to get a better fix on things - not just assign them to CCD because they fit the CCD symptoms. Finally, I've stated many times that we at UM believe that CCD symptoms change with the seasons. In mid-summer, the main symptom is that the colonies are unusually slow to grow, may be poor at storing honey, may even go off feed (which in some cases may be due to Nosema ceranae). These colonies need to be monitored - they're much more likely to express CCD in the fall or winter. Jerry **************It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel deal here. (http://information.travel.aol.com/deals?ncid=aoltrv00050000000047) **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2008 18:38:20 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dave Thompson Subject: Re: Whatever happened to CCD? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit >In mid-summer, the main symptom is that the colonies >are unusually slow to grow, may be poor at storing honey, may even go >off feed >(which in some cases may be due to Nosema ceranae). Agreed I suspect these hives have infected queens If you treat with formic the symptoms are well supressed, this may not "fix" an infected queen Early queens seem more likly to evade ccd dave **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2008 01:20:22 +0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Juanse Barros Subject: N ceranae at Tasmania MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline http://www.abc.net.au/rural/news/content/200809/s2352955.htm -- Juanse Barros J. APIZUR S.A. Carrera 695 Gorbea - CHILE +56-45-271693 08-3613310 http://apiaraucania.blogspot.com/ juanseapi@gmail.com **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2008 03:57:51 +0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Juanse Barros Subject: Re: Whatever happened to CCD? In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline >In mid-summer, the main symptom is that the colonies are unusually slow to grow, may be poor at storing honey, may even go off feed (which in some cases may be due to Nosema ceranae). > I suspect these hives have infected queens. If you treat with formic the symptoms are well supressed, this may not "fix" an infected queen. Early queens seem more likly to evade ccd Does Formic kills Nosema ceranae? --- Juanse Barros J. APIZUR S.A. Carrera 695 Gorbea - CHILE +56-45-271693 08-3613310 http://apiaraucania.blogspot.com/ juanseapi@gmail.com **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2008 05:22:48 +0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Juanse Barros Subject: Beekeeper told no more free samples MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline http://www.nugget.ca/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=1175858 A Guelph beekeeper has been ordered by the Toronto Board of Health to stop giving out samples at his Canadian National Exhibition booth. -- Juanse Barros J. APIZUR S.A. Carrera 695 Gorbea - CHILE +56-45-271693 08-3613310 http://apiaraucania.blogspot.com/ juanseapi@gmail.com **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2008 05:40:34 +0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Juanse Barros Subject: Less honey in Europe Comments: cc: honey_australia@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline 50% less at Zamora - Spain (drought) http://www.laopiniondezamora.es/secciones/noticia.jsp?pRef=2008090100_2_298780__Zamora-Miel-evapora 70% less at Rumania (drought) http://www.financiarul.ro/2008/09/01/this-year%E2%80%99s-honey-production-not-higher-than-7000-tonnes/ 50% less at England (bee mortality) http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/main.jhtml?xml=/earth/2008/09/02/eahoney102.xml -- Juanse Barros J. APIZUR S.A. Carrera 695 Gorbea - CHILE +56-45-271693 08-3613310 http://apiaraucania.blogspot.com/ juanseapi@gmail.com **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2008 05:46:08 +0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Juanse Barros Subject: On the Verge of Another CCD Die-Off Season, What Have We Learned? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Kim Flottum article As of Labor Day weekend ... bees are still dyingfrom symptoms that have been identified as Colony Collapse Disorder. Not many, yet. But this is when it starts. So let's look at what's going on. So far the villain in Colony Collapse Disorder is mostly the lack of information. http://www.thedailygreen.com/environmental-news/blogs/bees/colony-collapse-disorder-55090101 -- Juanse Barros J. APIZUR S.A. Carrera 695 Gorbea - CHILE +56-45-271693 08-3613310 http://apiaraucania.blogspot.com/ juanseapi@gmail.com **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2008 03:41:25 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: C Hooper Subject: New Method for Analysis of Streptomycin in Royal Jelly Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit New Method for Analysis of Streptomycin in Royal Jelly Determination of Streptomycin Residue in Royal Jelly by High Performance Liquid Chromatography with Post-Column Derivatization Se Pu (Chinese Journal of Chromatography), 2008 May;26(3):395-7 http://apitherapy.blogspot.com/2008/09/new-method-for-analysis-of-streptomycin.html A reliable and sensitive method was introduced for the analysis of streptomycin in royal jelly. The method was based on a separation by a C8 analytical column with beta-naphthoquinone-4-sulfonate post-column derivatization and fluorescence detection… **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2008 09:49:57 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Jerry Bromenshenk Subject: Re: Whatever happened to CCD? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit We have seen queens with high levels of virus in some packages and colonies that crashed. However, in CCD colonies, even in the slow growing colonies in mid-summer, the queens are laying full out. Its not a lack of brood. Jerry **************It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel deal here. (http://information.travel.aol.com/deals?ncid=aoltrv00050000000047) **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2008 13:01:34 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Brian Ames Subject: Re: Whatever happened to CCD? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit On Fri, 5 Sep 2008 09:49:57 EDT, Jerry Bromenshenk wrote: >We have seen queens with high levels of virus in some packages and colonies >that crashed. Just one of many reasons a serious beekeeper trying to make a living needs to raise their own queens. **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2008 15:32:02 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Jerry Bromenshenk Subject: Re: Whatever happened to CCD? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit <> Not necessarily. There is something called vertical transmission - where the queen can pass a virus along to her eggs and offspring offspring. Raising your own queens won't help if you've got viruses in your operation that can be transmitted vertically. We are beginning to see that the strategy of adding young bees to colonies used to produce queens is a quick way of introducing viruses into your breeding system. jerry **************Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com. (http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014) **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 6 Sep 2008 01:58:43 +0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Juanse Barros Subject: CCD, queens and viruses MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Jerry Are there any external sign for those queen viruses? How can one diferenciate the badies from the goodies? -- Juanse Barros J. APIZUR S.A. Carrera 695 Gorbea - CHILE +56-45-271693 08-3613310 http://apiaraucania.blogspot.com/ juanseapi@gmail.com **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2008 20:10:23 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: =?windows-1252?Q?Ian?= Subject: Re: Amitraz strips registered in Canada Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hey thanks for the heads up Randy! Kind of had my head in the sand for the last couple of months, and didnt realize that product was approved so quickly. Any type of disadvantage of using this type of treatment that beekeepers have found with using it? Oxalic Acid has been fully registered for use in Canadian bee hives, for two years now I think? Works great, but has its many disadvantages that makes the treatment unsuitable to some beekeepers. **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2008 22:19:07 -0300 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Peter Dillon Subject: Re: Amitraz strips registered in Canada In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Disadvantage: Reduced Drone fertility Comments anybody? Peter **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2008 19:21:37 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: randy oliver Subject: Re: Amitraz strips registered in Canada In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline > > Ian asked: > Any type of disadvantage of using this type of treatment (amitraz strips) > that beekeepers > have found with using it? Many commercial beeks use amitraz off label. It may slow egglaying down for a few days used the way that they apply it. Otherwise, I hear of no other negative effects. Although I am not a chemical fan, I would like to see it registered in the U.S. For more information, check www.scientificbeekeeping.com under varroa, chemical weapons. Randy Oliver **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2008 22:54:37 -0700 Reply-To: deelusbybeekeeper@yahoo.com Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dee Lusby Subject: Re: Whatever happened to CCD? In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Jerry Bromenshenk writes: =A0...even in the slow growing colonies=A0 in=20 mid-summer, the queens are laying full out.=A0 Its not a lack of=A0 brood.= =A0 =A0 Reply: How can queens lay full out in mid-summer and slow grow? If not a lack of b= rood, then why not bulding up? =A0 In other words..........what is negating the brood?........bees eating own = young? How=A0do colonies slow grown with queen laying full bore? Certainly = the bees aren't dying in less then 6-10 days following emergence, though wi= th nosema known to shorten life by 1/2 and varroa same with shortening life= by 1/2, and then chemical treatments, etc,.. sure makes one think!! =A0 Dee A. Lusby=A0=0A=0A=0A **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 6 Sep 2008 02:54:48 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: C Hooper Subject: Propolis Used to Treat American Foulbrood Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Propolis Used to Treat American Foulbrood Efficacy of Natural Propolis Extract in the Control of American Foulbrood Veterinary Microbiology, Volume 131, Issues 3-4, 15 October 2008, Pages 324-331 http://apitherapy.blogspot.com/2008/09/propolis-used-to-treat-american.html Abstract: Paenibacillus larvae is the causative agent of American Foulbrood (AFB), a severe disease that affects larvae of the honeybees. Due to the serious effects associated with AFB and the problems related to the use of antibiotics, it is necessary to develop alternative strategies for the control of the disease. The aim of the present work was to evaluate the effect of a propolis ethanolic extract (PEE) against P. larvae and its potential for the control of AFB... **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 6 Sep 2008 08:08:32 -0700 Reply-To: deelusbybeekeeper@yahoo.com Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dee Lusby Subject: Re: Propolis Used to Treat American Foulbrood In-Reply-To: <20080906025448.84d281a5f2f7df0ef38485a84124037d.5b61ccdbe6.wbe@email.secureserver.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii The aim of the present work was to evaluate the effect of a propolis ethanolic extract (PEE) against P. larvae and its potential for the control of AFB... Reply:No need to evaluate the effect of propolis for control of foul broods and other maladies as it works quite well. Have talked about that for many years taking propolis and grinding it and making propolis paddies during the early 1990s during our first regression down in size from 5.4mm to 50.mm - 5.1mm sizing. OUr hives lived with varroa, but the secondaries were eating us alive and that was reason we fine tuned the sizing more for harmony with Nature and went to 4.9mm to gain control. Well we gained control and foul levels dropped to 1-2% and then.....we didn't even need the usage of the propolis paddies anymore!! But all we were told was like the SC......prove it! Well, glad to see someone has been looking, but instead of propolis ethanolic extract, would recommend just straight taking propolis and grinding it. Also be aware!!! Propolis has a higher affinity for absorption of chemicals/treatments for contamination and you need "clean propolis to really work!!! for the bees besides humans too!!".So it having to run clean to get the clean stuff to use, then SC should be considered also, for then stronger propolis also and fine tuning sizing, so even in end propolis isn't needed.Dee A. Lusby **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 6 Sep 2008 11:20:47 -0400 Reply-To: bee-quick@bee-quick.com Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: James Fischer Subject: Re: On the Verge of Another CCD Die-Off Season, What Have We Learned? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Juanse asked an astute question. Reading the sources he cited, one would think that no progress had been made. We have learned much, but we still have to sort though what we read to separate the press hype from the reality-based beekeeping. The convincing evidence at hand has not been sufficient to prompt the press and some researchers to cross anything off the "suspect list". Sad to say, there are people with agendas, and it is not in their best interest to admit that some suspects have good alibis. Self-interest reigns. The good news is that rumblings can be felt, and those rumblings may very well be the rumbling of printing presses at science journals. I fear that more facts won't really change much, as the set of facts at hand has had so little impact on the perceptions of the general civilian population and the beekeeper population. So, lets slog through the cited articles, shall we? Juanse referenced: http://tinyurl.com/5v66gu or http://www.thedailygreen.com/environmental-news/blogs/bees/colony-collapse-d isorder-55090101 Right off the bat, there's an interesting and commonly-held misconception to correct: :: "... bees are still dying from symptoms that :: have been identified as Colony Collapse Disorder." But this is something that we HAVEN'T learned yet. There still is no consensus on what symptoms we can identify as "CCD". The "CCD Working Group" listed this as a top priority well over a year ago, and there has yet to be even an attempt at a definition of "CCD" and/or the symptoms. This is not a trivial point. Without an agreed-upon list of symptoms, different researchers are forced to decide for themselves where to draw the line, and their work is open to very basic critique by anyone who might not share the same "definition". :: "The jury is still out on IAPV, at least :: until newer studies are published." This statement is far too charitable to a group that showed no such charity toward other researchers right here on Bee-L. Science is a full-body contact sport, and "IAPV" was not just tackled by the Evans/Chen paper, it was body-slammed, tasered, closelined, and teabagged. This virus is kept on the list of "suspects" because few people have the backbone to admit in public that each and every claim made about IAPV turned out to be utterly wrong. The jury is not "still out", it ruled long ago. http://bee-quick.com/reprints/claims_collapse.pdf :: "...new pesticides... have made international :: headlines and definitely can't be overlooked." This statement is directly contradicted by a prior post to the same blog entitled "Evidence That Colony Collapse Disorder Is a Disease Expert: Pesticide Poisoning Wouldn't Roll Through Colonies This Way". One would think that the epidemiology described would be enough to settle the issue, and make clear that pesticides CAN be overlooked, at least as a cause of CCD. http://tinyurl.com/4ykwpm or http://www.thedailygreen.com/environmental-news/blogs/bees/colony-collapse-d isorder-55050802 But what more can one expect from a website called "The Daily Green"? While one would hope that standards of journalism would trump any agenda or preconceived notions, there is simply no standard of proof sufficient to rule out pesticides as a cause of CCD in the mind of this sort of "infotainment" outlet. This is not as much a lack of ability to learn as it is a cynical exploitation of a civilian population who seem to WANT to read a certain type of doom and gloom story about how pesticides are the root of all evil. Much like Fox News, they can sell ads to eyeballs that want to be reassured that their worldview is correct rather than be informed and educated. :: "One surprise was the nutrition deficiencies... :: ... some of the new diets are being explored, :: new diets have been concocted..." I think that the evidence that proves that CCD is a Disease, (rather than a pesticide problem) must also prove that any nutrition problem could also be ruled out as a cause of CCD. So, while every shred of tangible evidence that is worthy of being called "evidence" points clearly to CCD being a disease caused by one or more invasive exotic pathogens, there seems to be a lack of willingness to admit that actual progress has been made, and that many of the "suspects" can be eliminated as a direct result of that progress. To summarize, we have compelling evidence that CCD is a disease, caused by a pathogen that can spread from hive to hive, and then reproduce rapidly in the newly-infected hive. > So far the villain in Colony Collapse Disorder is > mostly the lack of information. No, we have lots of information. The villain here is self-interest, and stubborn ignorance, reinforced by a "press" that finds it easier and more profitable to keep repeating the same fictions over and over as if it were "information" rather than do the harder work of explaining reality in terms that can be understood. **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 6 Sep 2008 12:18:35 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Peter_de_Bruyn_Kops?= Subject: Re: Propolis Used to Treat American Foulbrood Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I recall that Sr. Barros uses propolis extract in his pollen supplement recipe. Has Sr. Barros or anyone seen any real-world reduction in AFB from feeding propolis extract? **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 6 Sep 2008 19:23:18 +0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Juanse Barros Subject: Re: Amitraz strips registered in Canada In-Reply-To: <3dcef4a10809051921o1b2bde49r119217d4feab32db@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline I have used Amitraz off label and on label for a couple of years now. I do not see any disadvantage if use with care. My drones giving colonies are treated well in advance and then not touch for the period I need the drones. All nucleos colonies are treated after the queen had mated. It degrades quickly so there is not much chance for it to taint the honey. -- Juanse Barros J. APIZUR S.A. Carrera 695 Gorbea - CHILE +56-45-271693 08-3613310 http://apiaraucania.blogspot.com/ juanseapi@gmail.com **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 6 Sep 2008 13:35:44 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: =?UTF-8?Q?Peter_L_Borst?= Subject: Re: Whatever happened to CCD? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit >How can queens lay full out in mid-summer and slow grow? If not a lack of brood, then why not bulding up? Anything that shortens the life span of the adult bees is going to manifest itself in this way: the hive appears to have a good queen, plenty of brood, but the hive doesn't build up, make honey, or any of the things it is supposed to do. This could be caused by nosema ceranae, varroa parasitism, neonics, and especially viruses. Viruses have been shown to shorten the bees' lifespan. They prevent their becoming long lived winter bees or -- converts potentially long-lived bees into short lived foragers -- the mechanism is not understood yet. Furthermore, as Jasna Kralj has suggested, sick bees may deliberately fly off and not return -- the suicide hypothesis. But whether bees are lost from one cause or another, the effect is the same: the hives don't build up, don't produce well. Jasna Kralj: > The parasitic mite Varroa destructor influences flight behavior, orientation and returning success of forager honeybees (Apis mellifera) infested as adults. Impaired orientation toward the nest entrance might be due to deficiency in recognition and responsiveness to stimuli in the environment < pb **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 6 Sep 2008 09:16:55 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: randy oliver Subject: Re: Whatever happened to CCD? In-Reply-To: <7842.12021.qm@web51601.mail.re2.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Dee asks: > How can queens lay full out in mid-summer and slow grow? If not a lack of > brood, then why not bulding up? Any factor that causes the adult bees to age rapidly--see my graphs in Old Bees, Cold Bees. As you say, varroa and nosema can cause this, but also viruses. Randy Oliver **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 6 Sep 2008 20:20:40 +0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Juanse Barros Subject: Re: Propolis Used to Treat American Foulbrood In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline "I recall that Sr. Barros uses propolis extract in his pollen supplement recipe. Has Sr. Barros or anyone seen any real-world reduction in AFB from feeding propolis extract?" Peter. I do not have AFB in my colonies, so I can not answer your question. I can not give any prove of the usefullness of propolis. For me propolis at the moment is more and "ideological" or "fate" thing. If it works for human, if bees collected, if it works for modulating the inmune sytem, then lets make it available for all the bees, not just the ones in the propolis chain. I am very close to the uruguayan team of DILAVE that have been testing the propolis for controling AFB, and they are a great research team. The key discoveries are: 1.- the i no letal dose, 2.- the minimun is 72 ppm if I reacll correctly. -- Juanse Barros J. APIZUR S.A. Carrera 695 Gorbea - CHILE +56-45-271693 08-3613310 http://apiaraucania.blogspot.com/ juanseapi@gmail.com **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 6 Sep 2008 15:51:01 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Peter_de_Bruyn_Kops?= Subject: Re: Propolis Used to Treat American Foulbrood Comments: To: Dee Lusby Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit > Dee Lusby wrote: "taking propolis and grinding it and making propolis paddies" Did you worry about how finely you ground it? Was there anything in those paddies that would tend to dissolve propolis, perhaps an alcohol or alkaline substance? **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 6 Sep 2008 11:47:53 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: randy oliver Subject: Re: On the Verge of Another CCD Die-Off Season, What Have We Learned? In-Reply-To: <000d01c91034$242247e0$6402a8c0@j> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline > > Jim wrote: > I think that the evidence that proves that CCD is > a Disease, (rather than a pesticide problem) must > also prove that any nutrition problem could also > be ruled out as a cause of CCD. I heartily concur with Jim. : ) Pesticide exposure, genetics, or poor nutrition could certainly exacerbate a pathogen problem, but the root issue appears to be one or more pathogens. Randy **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 6 Sep 2008 23:25:59 +0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Juanse Barros Subject: Re: On the Verge of Another CCD Die-Off Season, What Have We Learned? In-Reply-To: <3dcef4a10809061147u1852b7bexcdcea9efd66cc28@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline .. but the root issue appears to be one or more pathogens. I left a bunch of colonies (19) at home without any treatment since last spring (august 2007). All the two years old colonies have already died (4). Lots of varroa, lots of deformed wing virus. After dead there was still honey and polen in the frames. No robbing. The boxes were put on top of other colonies (2). All the colonies on the same stand than the old dead one are having big troubles. Lots of varroa, lots of deformed wing virus. No PMS seen in the frames, tough. No bad smell, no sign of Sacbrood. These stands are on the front of the apiary. The old colony in the back stand looks great (dark queen, very agressive colony), the new one on her side also looks great. Lots of dark, black, greasy, with out hair bees seen in all colonies still alive (11). Some "look like normal young bees" walking on the floor without been able to fly. Wing paralysis virus? Do not know from which colony they are falling out. Some new colonies (made past spring) that wintered with a full super with honey are doing really good (4). One of the same age colonies that was used to collect pollen is in very bad condition. Two new colonies died of starvation. All (3) autum nucleos died of starvation. Still alive 11 colonies. Today I put formic acid and started feeding sugar syrup on a "community feeder". Will report in a month or so, if someone reminds me. -- Juanse Barros J. APIZUR S.A. Carrera 695 Gorbea - CHILE +56-45-271693 08-3613310 http://apiaraucania.blogspot.com/ juanseapi@gmail.com **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 6 Sep 2008 16:23:04 -0700 Reply-To: naturebee@yahoo.com Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "J. Waggle" Subject: Re: Propolis Used to Treat American Foulbrood In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Perhaps propolis, a mixture bees make for weatherproofing and inhibiting bacteria should not be mixed into concoctions that would trick bees into consuming it. It is certainly not a natural food of the bee which brings its use as a <<>>> in this manner into question as far as organic beekeeping is concerned. Even though it is a product the bees make, it is perhaps unnatural for them to consume it, and may do harm to the bee, especially in quantities that might do harm to their own beneficial bacteria found in the gut of the bee. A treatment is a treatment, and I believe these things should not be used until they have been tested and approved for use as a treatment in bee colonies. If propolis does have AFB inhibiting qualities, the use of such a treatment would mask real performance, and make selection of AFB resistant traits more difficult. What happened to breeding bees? Best Wishes, Joe http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/HistoricalHoneybeeArticles/ 1875 - “A man is 1,950 times as large as the common honey-bee, and yet it is useless to try and argue the matter with the bee.†**************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 7 Sep 2008 03:52:16 +0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Juanse Barros Subject: Re: Propolis Used to Treat American Foulbrood In-Reply-To: <255395.25916.qm@web56401.mail.re3.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline "propolis ... It is certainly not a natural food of the bee ... " Are you sure? who says so? -- Juanse Barros J. APIZUR S.A. Carrera 695 Gorbea - CHILE +56-45-271693 08-3613310 http://apiaraucania.blogspot.com/ juanseapi@gmail.com **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 7 Sep 2008 04:00:15 +0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Juanse Barros Subject: Pollen gamma irratiation MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Any body knows the dose for pollen cobalt 60 gamma ratiation? Any one have references? This is not a common procedure here at Chile. I am talking with a company that have the facilities but do not know the recommended dose. Base on a short google search 15 kilo gray should be enough. http://www.dpi.vic.gov.au/dpi/nreninf.nsf/LinkView/49C3EAB260F417E7CA2573AF0009529126181E79F5B05B3F4A256DEA0027399A/$file/Beekeeping_and_the_Livestock_Disease_Control_Act_1994.pdf "Territories for feeding to Victorian honey bee colonies must be gamma-irradiated at 15 Kilo Gray before or immediately after introduction to Victoria. Irradiation kills disease organisms and leaves the pollen safe to feed to healthy colonies." -- Juanse Barros J. APIZUR S.A. Carrera 695 Gorbea - CHILE +56-45-271693 08-3613310 http://apiaraucania.blogspot.com/ juanseapi@gmail.com **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 7 Sep 2008 13:47:51 +1000 Reply-To: Trevor Weatherhead Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Trevor Weatherhead Subject: Re: Pollen gamma irratiation MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Juanse asks > Any body knows the dose for pollen cobalt 60 gamma ratiation? Work by Michael Hornitzky shows that 10 Kilo Grays is enough for AFB but you need 15 for chalkbrood and EFB. 10 would most likely be enough for nosema. As a matter of course I use 15 when we have gear irradiated. That is why the Victorians ask for 15. Trevor Weatherhead AUSTRALIA **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 6 Sep 2008 22:30:03 -0700 Reply-To: deelusbybeekeeper@yahoo.com Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dee Lusby Subject: Re: Propolis Used to Treat American Foulbrood In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I use a normal coffee mill to grind the propolis into powder. I have encaps= ulated propolis for years for selling to health food stores.But for the bee= s I mix the propolis when needed which is practicalyy nill (like less then = 1 hive in a few hundred needing anything anymore since SC usage of 4.9mm to= p tolerance) into paddies which is simply granulated honey and then put on = wax paper and put over broodnest/cluster. Nothing hard.Just substitute the = propolis powder in place of terrymicin. The bees will eat and chew/dissolve= the propolis=A0with mouth parts and use this way, both for selves (digesti= ve tracts) =A0and for where needed in hives. =A0 But have wrote about doing this 93-94 into 1996,=A0prior to second shakedow= n from 5.0mm - 5.1mm sizing to 4.9mm top tolerance, which solved our proble= m for secondary diseases which were eating us alive, though our bees lived = with varroa okay day to day with first shakedown from 5.4mm sizing. So info= rmation should still be here in archives even like also on biobee, irishlis= t,=A0and organiclist, and beesource.com forums. =A0 Dee A. Lusby =0A=0A=0A **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 6 Sep 2008 22:41:44 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dee Lusby Subject: Re: Propolis Used to Treat American Foulbrood In-Reply-To: <255395.25916.qm@web56401.mail.re3.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable A treatment is a treatment, and I believe these things should not be used u= ntil they have been tested and approved for use as a treatment in bee colonies. = If propolis does have AFB inhibiting qualities, the use of such a treatment wo= uld mask real performance, and make selection of AFB resistant traits more difficult. =20 Reply:This is why when we did second regression from 5.0mm -5.1mm sizing to= 4.9mm and foulbroods and other secondary diseases stopped for most part to= less then 1.2% seeing. We also stopped doing the propolis paddies. Now I s= imply pull the frames with any foul cells over 6 to a frame. Less then that= I leave for the bees to handle. But for hardheaded beekeepers around local= area that cannot or won't switch, and are on pierco and other stuff in the= 1st regression range, I do advise them on the propolis paddies and how if = they want to go futher to finally make the full switch to 4.9mm and be done= with problem. Message gets thru to some, and some it doesn't. =A0Dee A. Lu= sby =A0=0A=0A=0A **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 6 Sep 2008 22:46:32 -0700 Reply-To: deelusbybeekeeper@yahoo.com Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dee Lusby Subject: Re: Propolis Used to Treat American Foulbrood In-Reply-To: <7eb65cc10809061852o78f53156j9ea95143d0c92e13@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Seems to me propolis is found in honey along with pollen. The propolis used= to shellac the cells stuff is in seems to be in also direct contact with i= t. Who says propolis is not eaten or digested as a food? If bees work it wi= th mouth parts gotta be eating some of it. but who has ever looked at this = part? =A0 Dee A. Lusby =0A=0A=0A **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 7 Sep 2008 03:45:19 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: C Hooper Subject: Propolis =?UTF-8?Q?=E2=80=98Nanofood'?= Inhibits Pancreatic Cancer Cell Growth Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Propolis ‘Nanofood’ Inhibits Pancreatic Cancer Cell Growth Preparation of Propolis Nanofood and Application to Human Cancer Biological & Pharmaceutical Bulletin, Vol. 31 (2008) , No. 9 1704 http://apitherapy.blogspot.com/2008/09/propolis-nanofood-inhibits-pancreatic.html Nanoparticle-based delivery approaches have the potential to render hydrophobic agents like propolis dispersible in aqueous media, thus circumventing the pitfalls of poor solubility. We have synthesized a polymeric nanoparticle-encapsulated formulation of propolis (propolis nanofood) utilizing micellar aggregates of cross-linked and random copolymers of N-isopropylacrylamide (NIPAAM) with N-vinyl-2-pyrrolidone (VP) and poly(ethyleneglycol) monoacrylate (PEG-A)… **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 6 Sep 2008 23:03:38 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: randy oliver Subject: Re: Unlimited broodnest hives and migration. In-Reply-To: <014EFDE1925F4E49A13ACAB30CDD1063@bobPC> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Hi Bob, I'm catching up on old posts while I was on the road. Back in the days of hand loading individual colonies, many of us ran one > deep and one medium for the brood chamber. It balanced much better when you > picked it up. > > > >If I could turn back the clock I would put slats on the ends of all my > boxes. All my boxes have 1-1/2" cleats with a 15 degree undercut on the bottom. I like to place them so that your fingers go under, and then into the routed out hand hold. This grip is very easy on the hands, especially when you are wearing gloves in the rain. I have to have my hand holds special routed these days, since Dadant changed the height of the holds some years ago. But what really got me interested in your post was your teaser: > > >However there is a way to get much better honey production with doubles. > I'm guesssing as to what you are referring to, but would you please tell us? Thanks, Randy > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * >> * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * >> **************************************************** >> > > **************************************************** > * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * > * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * > **************************************************** > **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2008 07:37:33 +1000 Reply-To: Trevor Weatherhead Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Trevor Weatherhead Subject: Re: Pollen gamma irratiation MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dee wrote to me >Concerning irratiation for maladies occuring in pollen.........if it = kills the problem with viruses and fungal, and bacteria for fouls, = chalk, nosema etc........then to me it >kills the beneficial bacteria = like with lactic acid bacteria for normal fermenting and digestion by = larva and makes the pollen worthless for food for growing new = >larva........ >Someone correct me if I am wrong..........You irratiate the pollen you = take, or pollen left in frames, or honey even, and then what good is it = for food maintenance >of both young and adult bees in a beehive? >Again, some one correct me if I am wrong. (Same for acid usage too, = might I throw in.) We ahve been over this in the past..........and hence = reason for no/zero >treatments stand. This question was raised in Australia in the early 1990's when we = started using irradiated pollen. There was work done to show that the = pollen was quite satisfactory for brood rearing. It has been found = since then that the storage life of pollen can be greatly enhanced by = irradiation. It has been used successfully in Australia incorporated = into protein patties on pollen deficient honey flows to maintain brood. = If not feed, then the bees go broodless. See = www.honeybee.com.au/Library/ca.html=20 Trevor Weatherhead AUSTRALIA **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 7 Sep 2008 18:23:18 -0700 Reply-To: deelusbybeekeeper@yahoo.com Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dee Lusby Subject: Re: Propolis Used to Treat American Foulbrood Comments: To: Peter de Bruyn Kops In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Just froze the propolis and put into coffee grinder which then grinds it to= a fine powder. Was just put into granulated honey instead of terrimycin. B= ees then eat honey and chew propolis with mouth parts. But they do this nor= maly anyway in daily working of propolis and foraging for honey. =A0 Dee A. Lusby =0A=0A=0A **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 7 Sep 2008 21:37:42 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Brian Ames Subject: More background on German bee loss related to Clothianidin Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Some background on why neonics were being used in Germany. http://www.gmo-safety.eu/en/news/655.docu.html Western corn rootworm in Germany A new pest for maize farmers: So far only small numbers of insects have been found, but it is only a matter of time before the Western corn rootworm becomes a problem for maize farmers in Germany. In North America, and in many countries of Southern and Eastern Europe, the beetle is spreading rapidly. Once it has become established it is not easy to control. In the spring numerous bee colonies died in south- west Germany because of incorrect treatment of the maize seed. The authorities had ordered the measure in order to halt any further spread of the Western corn rootworm (Diabrotica virgifera). Between July and September, the peak flight period of the Western corn rootworm , pheromone traps are set up in many of the German maize-growing areas. Following the first discoveries in 2007 near Freiburg, large numbers of the beetles were caught in July this year in Bavaria, Baden- Württemberg and neighbouring Alsace. To combat a rapid spread of the new pest in southern Baden and large areas of Germany, the authorities immediately introduced control measures. As well as insecticide treatment against the adult beetles, infestation and safety zones were set up around the spots where the insects had been found. Depending on the number of beetles observed, the farmers have to comply with certain conditions, the most severe of these requiring them to cease growing maize as part of the crop rotation for one or two years. The Western corn rootworm has been spreading rapidly since it first appeared in Europe in the early 1990s. It is a major maize pest in the USA. The larvae of the Western corn rootworm cause the greatest damage. They destroy the roots so that the affected maize plants fall over.Photos: Mihaly Czepo, Hungary 2003 A high-clearance tractor is used to apply insecticides to control the Western corn rootworm. A number of different active ingredients have been granted restricted approval for this purpose.Photo: Ministry of Food and Rural Affairs, Baden-Württemberg Maize kernels being sown: To protect against wire-worms and frit-fly, the maize seed is treated with pesticides. Recently, special treatments against Diabrotica have also been used. If Diabrotica spreads in Germany, the Julius Kühn Institute in Braunschweig estimates that around 350 000 of the 1.8 million hectares now under maize cultivation would be at risk. In the absence of control measures, they estimate that the damage would amount to at least EUR 25 million per year. Diabrotica is a major maize pest in the USA. The costs for the damage it causes there and for controlling the pest amount to around one billion US dollars each year. Around the world, an area of around 20 million hectares is infested with the Western corn rootworm, 13.5 million of them in the USA alone. Diabrotica is the pest against which most insecticide applications are targeted. Each year insecticides to control the Western corn rootworm are used on 5.2 million hectares. Poorly treated – bee deaths from insecticide treatment of maize In 2008, in order to prevent the pest spreading further or even becoming established in Germany, the whole maize-growing area in the infestation and safety zones was sown only with maize seed that had been treated with an insecticide containing a particular active ingredient to protect it against the Diabrotica larvae. This was in response to a recommendation from the expert authorities that had advised increasing the application volume as a precautionary measure. In late April and early May 2008 bee deaths were recorded in some regions of south-west Germany – in precisely those areas where the treated seed had been sown – which, according to the latest figures, resulted in around 11 000 bee colonies being affected, some of them seriously. Research by the Julius Kühn Institute (JKI) and other expert authorities confirm that the active ingredient Clothianidin used in the seed treatment was responsible for the bee deaths. As the result of incorrect treatment of the maize seed, dust was produced during sowing which meant that the insecticide was carried to flowering plants. It had long been known that Clothianidin is harmful to bees, however it had been assumed that there would be no contact between bees and the active insecticide ingredient applied to the seed. As a precaution, in mid-May the German Federal Office of Consumer Protection and Food Safety (BVL) therefore ordered the suspension of the approval for various active ingredients used in seed treatments. It will not be decided until the autumn at the earliest whether seed treatments with the active ingredient Clothianidin will be available to maize farmers next year. It is possible that improved procedures for applying the treatment and sowing the seed will be prescribed in order to rule out the production of dust to a large extent. Genetically modified maize: The weapon of choice against the Western corn rootworm in the USA Since 2003 genetically modified maize varieties have been available on the American market that express a special variant of the Bt toxin which specifically targets the larvae of the Western corn rootworm, in a similar way to the familiar concept used to combat the European corn borer . Numerous varieties are now available that offer a combination of resistances against both pests as well as herbicide tolerance . In 2007, between 40 and 45 per cent of the maize plants grown already had this kind of ‘stacked’ resistance. In particular, the new GM lines are proving very successful against the beetle larvae, which seriously damage the maize roots. The adult beetles eat the leaves and above all the maize silks, which reduces kernel formation. This type of damage is less important in the USA. In Europe first release trials with Diabrotica-resistant lines are taking place, including in Spain, Eastern Europe and Germany. However, these varieties are not likely to be introduced onto the market in Europe in the next few years. Maize cultivation: Preparing for Diabrotica In Germany so far the only sightings have been of isolated beetles that have flown in. The urgent measures taken by the authorities, such as insecticide spraying against the beetles, the creation of zones with short-term bans on maize cultivation, and the recommendations regarding special treatment of the maize seed are designed to prevent the beetles becoming established and building up a resident population. According to experts, however, the spread of the pest in Europe cannot be prevented, so maize farmers will have to prepare for it and will need appropriate control strategies in the near future. The US experience has shown that Diabrotica-resistant maize varieties can be an effective means of combating the larvae on the plant roots. While these GM varieties are not approved for cultivation in Europe, treating the maize seed with insecticides or applying soil insecticides are alternative options. Breaking up the maize crop rotation with cereals or leaf crops would interrupt the main food supply of the Diabrotica beetle, but on its own this kind of measure will only reduce the pest pressure and the harvest losses. It cannot eradicate the pest. **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 7 Sep 2008 21:38:16 -0400 Reply-To: bee-quick@bee-quick.com Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: James Fischer Subject: Propolis Used to Treat American Foulbrood - NOT! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Propolis itself was NOT tested! Before waxing poetic about the magical properties of simple tree sap gathered from random trees and carried home by the bees to be used "as is" in an unmodified form as glue and caulk, please at least read the abstract of the cited paper. The paper addresses the use of a substance called an "ethanol extract of propolis" rather than propolis, so it should be clear that there is quite a bit of ethanol in the mix applied to the cultured AFB. Propolis alone is not going to have much of any impact on the same sort of cultured (vegetative stage) AFB in a Petri dish, and it certainly is not going to kill the spore stage of AFB. This should be obvious to anyone who has heard of autoclaving woodenware to sterilize the gear. The reason that autoclaves work so well is that they can melt off the built-up propolis that covers viable AFB spores and cultures. Clearly, if viable AFB cultures are found under coverings of propolis, this proves that propolis as used by bees will not kill or control AFB in a direct-contact scenario. So, what is the "exclusion zone" for propolis on the vegetative stage of AFB? Zero. While the exclusion zone for the extract seems to be non-zero, one is forced to wonder what the exclusion zone for pure ethanol alone would be. And I'm not about to spray my combs with any amount of ethanol, thank you very much, and I don't care what additives it contains, be it propolis extract, Chevron's Techron, or STP fuel treatment. The ethanol goes in the bee TRUCK, not in the bee HIVES! **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * ****************************************************