From MAILER-DAEMON Sat Feb 28 11:13:28 2009 Return-Path: <> X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.8 (2007-02-13) on industrial X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-86.9 required=2.4 tests=ADVANCE_FEE_1,AWL, MAILTO_TO_SPAM_ADDR,SPF_HELO_PASS,USER_IN_WHITELIST autolearn=disabled version=3.1.8 X-Original-To: adamf@IBIBLIO.ORG Delivered-To: adamf@IBIBLIO.ORG Received: from listserv.albany.edu (unknown [169.226.1.24]) by metalab.unc.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5EE15490A5 for ; Sat, 28 Feb 2009 11:03:41 -0500 (EST) Received: from listserv.albany.edu (listserv.albany.edu [169.226.1.24]) by listserv.albany.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id n1SG3YXF017258 for ; Sat, 28 Feb 2009 11:03:41 -0500 (EST) Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2009 11:03:35 -0500 From: "University at Albany LISTSERV Server (14.5)" Subject: File: "BEE-L LOG0809E" To: adamf@IBIBLIO.ORG Message-ID: Content-Length: 72160 Lines: 1644 ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2008 22:07:16 -0400 Reply-To: bee-quick@bee-quick.com Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: James Fischer Subject: Re: The biggest mess of politics and biology of any state MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The entire issue will soon be a moot point, I suspect. The current financial troubles will cut deeply into the State of New York's tax revenues. Budget-cutting will ensue. Cutting staff positions that have not yet been filled would be "painless", so they will be the first to go. So, not to worry - I predict that there will be enough inspectors to handle the requests for inspections, but not enough to prompt worry about privacy for those who want privacy. So, no empire building in the Empire State. **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2008 06:49:30 GMT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "deknow@netzero.net" Subject: foulbrood was:Re: [BEE-L] Apiguard and screened bottoms Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit hi bob, i'm curious about some of the details wrt to the person you cite who is burning 35 hives. what "advice" did he follow? was this advice given specifically to him, or information gleaned from reading? was this person using following other advice (ie, wrt cell size) from "that other list"? what lead him to believe that his bees were "hygenic" wrt to foulbrood? i ask these questions not to nail someone to the wall, but to understand what actually happened. on this topic, i must admit, that with my own limited experience, i find dee's method of dealing with foulbrood somewhat unbelievable. it goes against virtually everything i've read, and everything i've heard in person from other beekeepers. with that said, i've personally gone through thousands of her frames (in use, winter deadouts, and old boxes of comb that have been in storage for years), and didn't see more than a couple of cells with any scale that i could see. i think she told me that she burned 6 frames last year for having more than a couple (i think she says 6 is a maximum) visibly affected cells. all i can say is, if this didn't work for her, her bees would be dead. deknow **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2008 07:42:57 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: =?UTF-8?Q?Peter_L_Borst?= Subject: Re: foulbrood Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit >i'm curious about some of the details wrt to the person you cite who is burning 35 hives. > >what "advice" did he follow? Greetings Having recently put in three seasons as a bee inspector in NY State, I have seen just about every sort of operation there is. Some have never had AFB and some will never NOT have AFB. I identified over 200 cases and these were destroyed; I probably inspected at least 10,000 hives during that period. The chief point I would make is: beekeeping is local. If you are in an area where there is no AFB, you will not need to worry much about it. If there are beekeepers around you whose bees are dying of it, it would be foolish to go bare (no preventative medication). If the bees in your region are vigorous and hygienic, maybe you will do OK but if there are susceptible lines around, you will no doubt have those bees too (bees interbreed). One rationale for destroying colonies with AFB is to get rid of susceptible bees. Back in the 1980s I kept 400+ colonies in San Diego County. In that region, anyone who didn't use tetracycline was quickly overrun with AFB. And believe me, there have always been people who think the facts don't apply to them. pb **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2008 07:49:34 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: =?windows-1252?Q?Mike_Bassett?= Subject: Re: The biggest mess of politics and biology of any state Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit On Sun, 28 Sep 2008 22:07:16 -0400, James Fischer wrote: >The current financial troubles will cut >deeply into the State of New York's tax >revenues. Budget-cutting will ensue. > >Cutting staff positions that have not >yet been filled would be "painless", >so they will be the first to go. I've only lived here 5 yrs but I have to respectfuly disagree. From what I have seen so far, they will fill the positions, run a bigger deficit, and then raise taxes. I would guess the possibility exhists, since they have every other known tax, including taxing trees, that taxing bee hives would not be hard for them to do. I was sent a survey, the results of which are private??, that asks enough questions to guestimate your income from selling queens, nucs, etc. Do you think they have enough people working for the state to use this information to see If your tax return is reasonable??? I'm lucky I've practiced being a bad beekeeper and looking stupid that I feel safe. I can with out a doubt say that living in N.Y. you have the least amount of personel rights, or protections, of any state I have lived in by alot. slopping through the mud in Syracuse. mike bassett **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2008 09:16:42 -0400 Reply-To: lloyd@rossrounds.com Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Lloyd Spear Subject: The biggest mess of politics and biology of any state MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline I really feel sorry for Peter and the several other NYS Inspectors who are honest, forthcoming, knowledgeable and 'try to help' kind of guys. Unfortunately, the two guys responsible for management of the program in NYS are both tarred with the past. Both of these guys were essentially in their present position when lots of things went wrong with the program, including inspectors literally stealing bee hives. Now, I am not suggesting that either of these guys were complaisant in the many wrong doings, but they WERE in charge at the time and memories are long. Moreover, while they may not have been complaisant they were warned of matters going on that would not 'stand the light of day', and chose not to act/investigate. I know this because I was personally one of those doing the warning. The present fuss is mostly (IMHO) because Proposed Regulations were issued without prior discussion with key beekeeping groups in the state. I am sure the reason for not having prior discussion was 'because we knew you would not agree'...but that is hardly an excuse. As far as the Farm Bureau support is concerning, that is attributable to a single large beekeeper who 'knows how to work the system' and is no way a consenus of the views of beekeepers (like me) who are members of the Farm Bureau. In fact, a recent poll by the Empire State Beekeepers found something like 10 to 1 opposition to the proposed regulations. Thankfully, it appears that the present Commissioner of Ag. in NYS will not allow the Proposed Regulations to become effective. Lloyd -- Lloyd Spear Owner Ross Rounds, Inc. Manufacture of equipment for round comb honey sections, Sundance Pollen Traps, and producer of Sundance custom labels. Contact your dealer or www.RossRounds.com **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2008 08:31:44 -0700 Reply-To: deelusbybeekeeper@yahoo.com Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dee Lusby Subject: Re: foulbrood In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Peter writes: Back in the 1980s I kept 400+ colonies in San Diego County. In that region, anyone who didn't use tetracycline was quickly overrun with AFB. And believe me, there have always been people who think the facts don't apply to them. Reply: That is still going on I would think. Even here those around me that are co= mmercial have bad problems of foul and treat and with mites fumigate and to= me this is wrong. Going back to small cell with top tolerance of 4.9mm in = center of broodnest will aleviate the problem, and you simply learn to cull= any frames with more then 6 cells of foul or other problems of secondary d= isease, as you still want the bees to have a sublethal dosage, like playing= in sand box, to stay healthy.=20 =A0 Even Dr Jerry Bromenshenk wrote me and said my bees were remarkably clean o= f virus with his lookings, and what=A0initial results I have gotten back on= ly showed some nosema which I didn't think was a real problem. Still awaiti= ng rest of results though, but even still went on with the bees. Split the = strong to build yards back up from last fall this spring with simple walk a= way splits, and this year so far 2008 each yard has given barrel honey and = year still going on with more to take probably equal again, besides packing= the bottom three deeps around the brood again to get reserve stores.=20 =A0 So what is foul brood if the bees on a natural system in tune with Nature c= an handle it......while others commercial around you have problems and must= constantly use the dopes and artificial feeds? =A0 Dee A. Lusby=0A=0A=0A **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2008 13:26:18 -0400 Reply-To: james.fischer@gmail.com Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: James Fischer Subject: Re: The biggest mess of politics and biology of any state MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Thankfully, it appears that the present Commissioner of Ag. > in NYS will not allow the Proposed Regulations to become effective. "Proposed Regulations".... that's interesting. Lloyd, please explain in more detail. Registration forms were distributed with language that gave the impression that registration was mandatory and that the regulations were in full force months ago. Was that language premature? Howso? What I was sent, and what I distributed to the both the Long Island beekeepers and Gotham City beekeepers was form PI-134, dated 6/08, which says: "In accordance with legislation passed in 2007, beekeepers are required to provide the Department contact information and apiary yard location data..." If registration is not required by law, I am sure that there are a number of people who would rather not register until the law insists that they do so. **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2008 14:28:27 -0400 Reply-To: lloyd@rossrounds.com Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Lloyd Spear Subject: The biggest mess of politics and biology of any state MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline James referred to the latest questionaire from Ag. and Markets... Yes, you correctly referenced the wording. 'The Law' that was passed, with no prior notice or discussion, authorized the Commissioner to issue regulations. The Commissioner has declined to do so, after receiving petitions from the two groups serving most of the Commercial Beekeepers in the state. Those petitions asked him to not issue such regulations. I considered the questionairre very misleading in that it implied (but did not explicity state) that beekeepers were required by law to submit the completed questionairre. Note also that the cover material did not come from the Director of Ag. and Markets, but instead from the Apiculturist. Was that to provide 'cover' in case the Commissioner objected? I urge each and every NYS member to write the Commissioner and repeat the urging to not issue regulations. Commissioner Patrick Hooker, 10B Airline Drive, Albany NY 12235. Aaron, can you give the List a reference to the proposed regulations, so when they write the Commissioner they can make a specfic reference? I can't find them... Lloyd -- Lloyd Spear Owner Ross Rounds, Inc. Manufacture of equipment for round comb honey sections, Sundance Pollen Traps, and producer of Sundance custom labels. Contact your dealer or www.RossRounds.com **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2008 14:39:53 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Aaron Morris Subject: Re: The biggest mess of politics and biology of any state In-Reply-To: <200809291834.m8THPspv007181@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit > a reference to the proposed regulations, NEW YORK STATE ASSEMBLY MEMORANDUM IN SUPPORT OF LEGISLATION Submitted in accordance with Assembly Rule III, Sec 1(e) BILL NUMBER: A7543A SPONSOR: Magee TITLE OF BILL: An act to amend the agriculture and markets law, in relation to beekeeper and apiary surveys PURPOSE: The purpose of the bill is to facilitate the collection of reliable information on beekeepers and apiary yard locations. SUMMARY OF PROVISIONS: The bill amends Agriculture and Markets Law (AML) § 173 to authorize the Commissioner of Agriculture and Markets (Commissioner) to cause surveys of beekeepers and apiary yard locations within the State to be made for the purpose of assessing the size and condition of the State's honey bee population. Beekeepers, when requested by the Commissioner, are required to disclose the location of their apiary yards and provide any other information required for the surveys. The bill requires that records containing information relating to beekeepers be treated as confidential except where the Commissioner deems disclosure necessary to implement AML Article 15 relating to bee diseases. Department records containing such confidential information shall be exempt from disclosure to the extent authorized by Article 6 of the Public Officers Law. Also, each beekeeper shall obtain and post an identification number from the Department in a conspicuous place at each apiary yard location. EXISTING LAW: Agriculture and Markets Law § 173 authorizes the Commissioner to cause inspections to be made of apiaries in the State for the purpose of discovering infectious, contagious or communicable diseases and the presence of insects and parasitic organisms that may adversely affect bees. Section 173 also authorizes the Commissioner to have access to and make investigations of apiaries, structures, appliances or premises where bees or honey or comb used in apiaries are located... 07/06/07 delivered to governor 07/18/07 signed chap.249.... **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2008 15:02:57 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: James Plaisted Subject: Re: The biggest mess of politics and biology of any state MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable That was my take on it as well=2C that the law required you to fill out and= return the survay=2C which I did...It seems that these laws have been popp= ing up all over the ag industry=2C from crop survays to livestock survays= =2C all required by law. Jim http://www.northernqueens.com/ _________________________________________________________________ Stay up to date on your PC=2C the Web=2C and your mobile phone with Windows= Live. http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/msnnkwxp1020093185mrt/direct/01/= **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2008 18:21:34 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "Peter L. Borst" Subject: Re: The biggest mess of politics and biology of any state In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Jim: > That was my take on it as well, that the law required you to fill out and return the survey Or what? So far as I know, there is no provision for what happens if you don't fill out their forms or if you never even register. I never heard of anyone being taken to task for it. I doubt if any of the regs would hold up in court. Inspectors routinely trespass and coerce beekeepers into destroying their equipment with neither probable cause nor due process. Compared to Pennsylvania, New York is in the Dark Ages. **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2008 19:38:57 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: James Plaisted Subject: Re: The biggest mess of politics and biology of any state In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable "Or what?" =20 That's one of those things that are left up to one's own imaganation I susp= ect. It never says what the penalities are for failing to comply. Althoug= h when I had dairy cows the fedral government chased me relentlessly until = I filled out their stupid survay. Now adays they can force the issue under= the Homeland Securities Act=2C and "could" really force the issue..... =20 Jim =20 =20 http://www.northernqueens.com/=20 _________________________________________________________________ See how Windows connects the people=2C information=2C and fun that are part= of your life. http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/msnnkwxp1020093175mrt/direct/01/= **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2008 19:39:19 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Chris Slade Subject: Re: The biggest mess of politics and biology of any state MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 29/09/2008 23:31:47 GMT Standard Time, peterlborst@GMAIL.COM writes: Inspectors routinely trespass and coerce beekeepers into destroying their equipment with neither probable cause nor due process. Do they have right of entry onto private property? How do they diagnose problems? What diseases/pests are within their remit? Is there laboratory confirmation of their suspicions? Is destruction of hives upon confirmation compulsory? Is it just the innards of the hive or the whole? Is there a compensation scheme? Here in England, the Bee Inspectorate are generally welcomed and supported by beekeepers. They are principally looking for AFB and EFB and are alert for SHB and Tropilaelaps, neither of which has yet been found here. Inspectors have a statutory right of entry, but more often than not are there by invitation. If they diagnose AFB or EFB they take a sample to send off to the lab for confirmation and in the meantime the apiary is placed under a 'standstill order' which prevents the beekeeper moving any bees or equipment out of that site until the problem has been resolved one way or another. AFB is treated by burning the entire contents of the hive and scorching with a blow torch the hive body. This has reduced the incidence of AFB to a rarity. EFB used to be treated in the same way,and since the rules have been relaxed somewhat it has flared up. It is still a 'notifiable disease' in that the beekeeper is duty bound to call in the inspectorate if he has a mere suspicion that his bees might have either foulbrood, but nowadays the favoured treatment for EFB is the shook swarm and this has reasonably good results in mild cases. Destruction may still be ordered in severe cases. There is a compensation scheme 'Bee Diseases Insurance' which is paid for by the beekeepers as part of their annual subscription to the BKA and this means that the beekeeper has no incentive to conceal disease problems. It works and we like it. Chris **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2008 21:03:50 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Brian Ames Subject: Re: The biggest mess of politics and biology of any state Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Along this line of providing information required by law why should any beekeeper fill out the ag census from the USDA? What have they done for the beekeeping industry? While Rome burned for many beekeepers the USDA gave another 5 years of crop subsidies to corn and bean growers while commodity prices are at record levels. Anyone every heard of anyone being fined or any penalty for NOT sending in the USDSA AG census? **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2008 21:06:04 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "Peter L. Borst" Subject: Re: The biggest mess of politics and biology of any state MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline On Mon, 29 Sep 2008 19:39:19 EDT, Chris Slade wrote: >Do they have right of entry onto private property? In the inspection law, written many decades ago, NY State claims the right to go on anybody's property at any time with or without permission and look into their hives and bee equipment. Maybe, decades ago, with AFB at 50%, this was appropriate. I don't think it is now. I'd say if there is reasonable suspicion of disease, permission should be obtained and if necessary, a warrant. > How do they diagnose problems? A thorough visual inspection of the brood and bees is performed, by an inspector who is supposedly qualified to do this, though some of the inspectors probably aren't. > What diseases/pests are within their remit? NY law forbids the keeping of bees with AFB or African bees. No attempt is made to regulate beetles, mites, or nosema. > Is there laboratory confirmation of their suspicions? Yes, by the US Govt. > Is destruction of hives upon confirmation compulsory? Yes, and this is a bit of a problem, because some states allow medicating the colonies. AFB is a bacterial infection and can be treated with ordinary antibiotics. So many beekeepers resent being told that NY State doesn't allow this. > Is it just the innards of the hive or the whole? Some salvaging can be carried out. Mainly the bees, combs and honey are destroyed. Wooden ware can be scorched. The hives could be irradiated. > Is there a compensation scheme? Nope. And since it costs up to $50 replace a super and a good hive could sell for $150 bucks, this can be a very expensive loss. I worked as an inspector and I felt that I did a lot of good, but I would rather have had an entirely different program. New York is one of the most heavily regulated states and it is very expensive to live here as a result. I was by threatened with a heavy fine by a State Trooper, in front of my family, for wading into the lake when there was no lifeguard on duty. I grew up in California where I surfed in heavy seas alone in winter, with nobody even watching and here I am not allowed to go wading unsupervised. But let me tell you a true story. There was a yard of bees, about forty hives. The inspector is supposed to phone the owner and notify intent to inspect. The owner told me over the phone to stay the F-- away from his bees. The unwritten policy was to push the beekeeper and if they push back, move on. So I moved on. The following year, I asked my supervisor to make the call, expecting trouble. He didn't want to get into it, I guess, because he never called. The third year I got the other brother. The bees were dad's but now the various brothers ran the farm. This other brother said go ahead and check 'em. So I did. Well, out of 40, something like 14 had either AFB scale, or active symptoms. It was pretty obvious they were being treated and the hives looked real good except for that. Most had about a hundred pounds of honey, mostly basswood. I called my supervisor and described it to him. These guys are not going to be willing to kill these great looking hives and destroy a ton of fresh honey. Especially since the past inspectors left them alone for years. Sure enough, when I got together with old dad, I found him to be at least as smart a me. He said he has a herd of cows and you can't keep cows alive without antibiotics, why should bees be any different? He said, in fact, the former bee inspector was the one who told him to switch from terramycin to tylosin, so you don't have to dose 'em as often. Now the inspection program is telling him he has to burn up his bees, because they changed their mind and want to make an example of him? What about all the other guys who medicate hundreds or thousands of hives? Why not go after them? Now that he was down from 900 to 40 hives and up to 75 in years, they figure he's any easy mark. Hoo boy, was he mad. And how could I blame him? Laws are supposed to be the same for everybody, but when was it really ever like that? Now NY State is picking on beekeepers to register their hives, knowing full well that the large scale operators will never let on where ALL their hives are or how many they even have. And why should they really? So the State can tax them in order to fund the inspectors to go around and burn 'em up? Foulbrood now stands at around 2% and anyone with 50 cents worth of sense can prevent it. Granted, some nutty granolas think they can get away without following the basic practices of disease control and prevention ... but I have digressed **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2008 21:13:09 -0400 Reply-To: james.fischer@gmail.com Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: James Fischer Subject: Re: The biggest mess of politics and biology of any state MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Chris Slade asked: > Do they have right of entry onto private property? The State of New York seems to think so, at least within the narrow reading of the Ag & Markets regulations: "Section 173 also authorizes the Commissioner to have access to and make investigations of apiaries, structures, appliances or premises where bees or honey or comb used in apiaries are located..." But there is a broader rule, one that inherently invalidates any such attempt to give anyone any such "access" It is in the US Bill of Rights: "AMENDMENT FOUR: The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized." Just in case anyone thinks that the Bill of Rights does not apply to actions of the States, we have the very famous "Mapp v. Ohio", 367 US 643, where the US Supreme Court ruled in 1961 that the 4th Amendment is enforceable against state governments by way of the "Due Process" Clause of the 14th Amendment, one of their more elegant slam dunks. In the state of Ohio, it was made clear that the Bill Of Rights overrules any bee inspector, no matter how well-intentioned. I forget the year of the ruling, but the Ohio courts were not about to buck "Mapp v. Ohio", and get their nose bloodied yet again by the Supreme Court. > Here in England, the Bee Inspectorate are generally > welcomed and supported by beekeepers. Same thing in most places. Sounds like there is a "history" where the New York program suffered several self-inflicted gunshot wounds to the foot, and lost the trust of the beekeepers. > Is there a compensation scheme? Not a penny is paid. > AFB is treated by burning... There is a long, sad tale of an honest beekeeper on Long Island NY (Clifford Still, for those who have met him at EAS meetings) who found foulbrood and wanted to "do the right thing". But open fires were prohibited in his town, so he was caught between two sets of conflicting regulations in a Kafkaesque comedy that requires at least 20 mins to give the full dramatic treatment. **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2008 19:15:29 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Jim Smith Subject: Re: Bear Question In-Reply-To: <762171FD35F246319AC43FFE72E6D2CA@bobPC> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Bob, I know Shannon..Did not know he was so experienced lol! Well up here in the old potato country, old reefers are still hanging around, even with the price of steel. I really was thinking that I could prove a site and then set up a fence. California licensing on trailers has changed a lot and the big costs are tacked onto the drivers.. Good advice Bob and all you others too! I intend to take it and build fences...Thanks much! Jim >From the state of jefferson **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2008 04:16:05 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Chris Slade Subject: Re: The biggest mess of politics and biology of any state MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 30/09/2008 03:04:49 GMT Standard Time, peterlborst@GMAIL.COM writes: AFB is a bacterial infection and can be treated with ordinary antibiotics. However, the spore stage is resistant to virtually everything except burning for up to half a century and during that time the beekeeper can move the disease to the other end of the country. Chris **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2008 12:34:26 GMT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "waldig@netzero.net" Subject: Re: Honeybees can count Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit >>...certain hives for whatever reasons seem to draw bees from other hives. Perhaps the queen has stronger pheromones or perhaps the foragers seem to like the hive better. I do quite a bit of hive transposing and find that certain strong hive remain strong regardless of position in a row. I also think its the stronger queen pheromones. [Bee colonies are normally isolated in nature and returning bees cue in on the queen scent.] In transposing, these strong hive lose a substantial amount of workers but their queens are normally very prollific and quickly make up the losses. I end up placing the strongest hives in the *worst* spots for drifting. Drifting can be a big problem in the spring! Returning bees in cool weather take less care in finding their original hives. Weaker hives can significantly weaken and dwindle. Have to keep an eye on that. Drifting is not a big deal in the summer though after the best hives are in the *worst* spots and all hives are emitting *good* queen pheromone with the increased populations. Drifting and *worst* positions made reconsider how I grade my queens. I don't necessarily use the queens from my highest producing hives for reproduction. I visually grade based on the brood amount and honey production in the *worst* position. These hives will beat others under any circumstances. Waldemar **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2008 06:28:49 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Robert Brenchley Subject: Re: The biggest mess of politics and biology of any state MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 30/09/2008 11:16:02 GMT Daylight Time, CSlade777@AOL.COM writes: <> The biggest outbreak we've ever had in the UK (over 100 hives) was caused by a beekeeper who either didn't check what was going on in his hives or chose to ignore it. Much of it is spread by beekeeprs moving frames between hives. If you're using prophylactic treatments, then it only takes something to go wrong with the treatment regime, or a hive to end up in the posession of someone who doesn't subscribe to that philosophy, and you have a full-scale outbreak. If such treatments were allowed here, I'd never feel safe acquiring anything but swarms, since there's no source of packages in the UK. Regards, Robert Brenchley Birmingham UK **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2008 07:24:02 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: =?UTF-8?Q?Peter_L_Borst?= Subject: Re: The biggest mess of politics and biology of any state Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit On Tue, 30 Sep 2008 04:16:05 EDT, Chris Slade wrote: > the spore stage is resistant to virtually everything except burning >for up to half a century and during that time the beekeeper can move the >disease to the other end of the country. Well known. My point, however, was the variance in state laws from mandatory burning in some states, to laissez faire in others. If the case is isolated, burning the whole thing is the best idea. But if the spores have already spread throughout the entire outfit, that's another matter. Believe me, there are plenty of operations like that out there **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2008 06:34:14 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Everett Zurlinden Subject: Fructose vs sucrose MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Greetings everyone! I need your thoughts on this one when you get a chance. I acquired by donation a substantial amount of food grade corn syrup. It is highly refined and used in the baking industry according to the manufacturer. The material turned solid on them and it became unmarketable. So they offered it one of our bee associations and in turn it came to me. I am able to liquefy it easily and have experimented with it by feeding it to a handful of colonies. So far, so good. Coincidently, Bee Culture had an article on sugar and corn syrup. The author indicates that fructose is closer to the composition of honey and is an acceptable source of feed. The author also discussed regular sugar. The article didn't recommend one over the other; rather, the gist of it was that they are different types of sugar and both are excellent food sources for bees. Another coincidence is an advertisement by Mann Lake in ABJ where they claim that sugar syrup is a better brood builder whereas fructose corn syrup is a better bulk storage builder. This implies that one approach would be to use sugar syrup in the spring and corn syrup in the fall. Without any knowledge of the above, I started 10 nucs in July and fed them initially 400 lbs of sugar syrup. True to form they built foundation into comb very rapidly. The nucs have bees occupying 7-10 frames at this point in time. I switched over to corn syrup in a heavy mixture (I cut it with water) and they are indeed putting on bulk stores. Here's my question. When I mention corn syrup to other beekeepers I get a bad reaction. Why does corn syrup have a bad reputation? Best to all, Everett **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2008 08:09:41 -0400 Reply-To: lloyd@rossrounds.com Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Lloyd Spear Subject: The biggest mess of politics and biology of any state MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline When I was an inspector in NYS we once visited yards of a highly-respected beekeeper. A person making their living from beekeeping, active in local and national groups, and in his 70's. Running, with help, almost 1,500 hives. These hives were treated with antibiotics early every year, but dozens would be found with active stage in the fall. No burning, ever. Frames were loaded with scale. In one yard I pointed out the scale and the Senior Inspector said it was my imagination! He subsequently told the beekeeper "Lloyd thought he saw scale, but I talked him out of it". It was made very clear to me that if we were to burn the hives with scale (in NYS as a whole), there would be very few commercial beekeepers left! A few weeks thereafter, with that experience and a few other equally unsatisfactory experiences behind me, I quit, but not before telling the Director that he "should be certain he knew exactly what was going on in the field, and I choose to think you are unaware of much of what is going on." He apparently did not follow up, and a few years later some of what was going on became known and the program was devastated for a year or so. An interesting point is that the beekeeper who was 'protected' (mentioned above) is one of those most opposed to any inspection program in the state. Perhaps he figures money is bring spent to no avail. Do you think? Lloyd -- Lloyd Spear Owner Ross Rounds, Inc. Manufacture of equipment for round comb honey sections, Sundance Pollen Traps, and producer of Sundance custom labels. Contact your dealer or www.RossRounds.com **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2008 07:47:49 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: Re: Fructose vs sucrose In-Reply-To: <18E7C868F9224E83AE85D950A1E822B1@RIMW9> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello Everett & All, > Here's my question. When I mention corn syrup to other beekeepers I get a > bad reaction. Why does corn syrup have a bad reputation? My help will be here in a few minutes so only able to give a few comments. 1. The industry used HFCS for years without issues then things changed. I do not know what or why. 2. Experiments done at the Weslaco Bee Lab showed bees lived half as long when fed HFCS. Two poisons were identified in HFCS. 3. Dr. Gregory gave programs presenting her results( ABF and AHPA) The bee supply HFCS sellers protested . Bob Harrison did an article explaining her results in ABJ. The industry for the most part switched to sucrose and almost overnight our bees started doing better in all areas. Very few now buy HFCS which is around a buck a gallon cheaper and all the beeks I run with feel sucrose is worth the higher price. Beware off spec syrup of any kind Everett! Off to feed sucrose as winter is moving in fast this year. Meds done and hope to finish feeding light hives by next week. bob **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2008 08:51:13 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Darrell Subject: Re: Honeybees can count In-Reply-To: <20080929.083426.10824.0@webmail11.dca.untd.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v753) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On 29-Sep-08, at 12:34 PM, waldig@netzero.net wrote: > I visually grade based on the brood amount and honey production > in the *worst* position. Hi Waldemar and all How do you determine the "worst" position. Is this trial & error or can you list characteristics? If you know the worst, how about your views on the best position. Bob Darrell Caledon Ontario Canada 44N80W **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2008 13:09:02 -0400 Reply-To: james.fischer@gmail.com Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: James Fischer Subject: Re: The biggest mess of politics and biology of any state MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lloyd said: > When I was an inspector in NYS... I quit... and Peter Borst said: > I worked as an inspector and I felt that > I did a lot of good, but I would rather > have had an entirely different program. I find it interesting that two beekeepers of known skill, experience, and knowledge are so critical of a program of which they have first-hand inside knowledge. **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2008 13:44:49 GMT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "waldig@netzero.net" Subject: Re: Honeybees can count Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit >>How do you determine the "worst" position. Is this trial & error or can you list characteristics? It's trial and error to some extent but you can get a few cues by scanning the area with some care. Bees develep flight pathways that are optimum to them. A bush, a tree, or a structure forces them to augment those pathways. If funneled by the landscape, a prevailing sideways breeze can carry the dominant queen scent away in one direction potentially skewing the pathways and drifting. My hives, out of necessity, are in fairly straight lines with slight stagerring in the front-to-back direction. My worst spot is almost invariably in the middle of the row. For transposing and equalizing in the late spring, I place my superstar hive in that location. This gives the less-than-superstar hives more bees to raise extra brood and be very strong for the summer. My fundamental goal is to maximize the amount of brood from each queen. Drifting or not, the maximized bee population will best take care of the honey crop. >>If you know the worst, how about your views on the best position. Unless there is a really failing queen or an obstacle like a bush in front of the hive, the row ends will always have the largest numbers of bees in my experience. Waldemar **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2008 16:05:56 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Gary Plazyk Subject: Hives visible on Google maps MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi! I found that Google Maps has aerial imagery of astonishing resolution. Zooming in on my property at the highest resolution, I can actually see and count my beehives! That's a resolution of better than 6" on the ground per screen pixel! (Resolution may vary by location; I'm in rural northern Illinois.) Go to http://maps.google.com/ and click on "Set default location"; then type in your address, city, state, and zip code and click "Save". Then click on "Satellite" view. Move your cursor to the point you want to focus on, right-click, and select "Center map here". Then push the zoom slide indicator all the way up to get maximum resolution. Amazing! It's also a time machine, since my hives have been gone for three years... (I don't know how to find the actual date of the imagery.) Very best regards, -Gary P. (in rural northern Illinois near Marengo, between Elgin and Rockford IL) Gary Plazyk, g_plazyk@ix.netcom.com Fuzzy Bear Farm http://profiles.yahoo.com/g_plazyk http://www.BearCreekMusic.us http://www.RavenswoodMorris.org "Music is too important to leave to the professionals." -Robert Shaw **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2008 17:07:48 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Brian Ames Subject: Re: Fructose vs sucrose Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I just spoke with the "syrup dept" at Mann Lakes Mn HQ. They said that about 50% beekeepers use a HFCS/Sucrose blend, 30% HFCS and 20% straight sucrose. **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2008 15:37:34 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bill Truesdell Subject: Re: Fructose vs sucrose In-Reply-To: <698A02A4F5F54DF7BB6A382670A88E6C@bobPC> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Bob's post was accurate and informative. If you go back into the archives, there were many mini-quarrels on the use of sucrose vs HFCS, so it is nice to see that science is validated. All of the trials I read found sucrose was the best for overwintering. Bill Truesdell Bath, Maine **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2008 15:41:54 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Chris Slade Subject: Re: Honeybees can count MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 30/09/2008 19:38:19 GMT Standard Time, waldig@NETZERO.NET writes: the row ends will always have the largest numbers of bees in my experience. It might be interesting next year to split up your rows into blocks of 4 with a distinctive marker between each block to see whether the ability to count to 4 reduces drifting. Chris **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2008 17:40:18 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Robert Brenchley Subject: Re: Hives visible on Google maps MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 30/09/2008 22:36:25 GMT Daylight Time, g_plazyk@IX.NETCOM.COM writes: <> Absolutely true. The photo of my allotment is several years old, and was taken before I had the weeds under control. But I can count the hives quite easily. Regards, Robert Brenchley Birmingham UK **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2008 23:03:05 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Peter Edwards Subject: Re: Hives visible on Google maps MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Gary wrote: > It's also a time machine, since my hives have been gone for three years... > (I don't know how to find the actual date of the imagery.) Same for the UK - it seems that the pictures are composites and were not all taken at the same time. Most up to date here is about two years old, but some areas nearby are much older. I have just set up a new apiary, so will be interested to see when it appears! Peter Edwards **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2008 20:02:02 -0300 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Peter Dillon Subject: Re: Hives visible on Google maps In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hives. Just to let you know how lucky some are - I cannot even pick out my house, the resolution for most of Prince Edward Island, Canada is so poor! Maybe it's the rain blurring the lens of the camera! Peter **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2008 19:45:25 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: =?UTF-8?Q?Peter_L_Borst?= Subject: Re: Hives visible on Google maps Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Greetings I used Google maps almost every day when I was inspecting. I would use it for route planning, estimating driving time, to get a sense of the terrain, see the beekeeper's house, find apiaries, etc. Actually Microsoft's Live Search has some even better "Bird's Eye" views, but they don't have complete coverage of all areas. But once in a while the camera picks up some very scenic shots. By the way, high definition aerial photos are not new. 20 years ago, a friend of mine surreptitiously built a large kitchen onto the back of his house, without getting the permits. He thought no one would notice it in back. An inspector came around and fined him for building without a permit. He was lucky they didn't make him tear it down. Somebody in some windowless room somewhere figured out he had done an addition by comparing photographs -- house by house -- year by year -- pb **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2008 00:15:42 +0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Gavin Ramsay Subject: Re: Honeybees can count MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi Chris > It might be interesting next year to split up your rows into blocks of 4 I can't help thinking that when bees fly home they are unlikely to count unless they have to. More likely head for the one that's in line with that tree over there, or has a particular tussock of grass in front, has a branch 3m above it, or has a particularly coloured front door. Multiple cues, just as we would use when we seek a particular hive in an apiary. all the best Gavin **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2008 17:51:51 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: randy oliver Subject: Re: Bear Question In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Great discussion! Most of my yards have black bears. I can't speak for areas other than the California Sierra foothills. We put up the quickest, cheapest, most reliable fence we've found over the years. We currently set up a fence with heavy steel T-posts in the corners, insulators facing inside toward center (we like the ones with a separate pin so that the wire can slide (Red SnapR pinlocks). Fiberglass intermediate posts if necessary. Generally 2, but sometimes 3 1/8" poly "wires." White wire is most visible, so that deer don't run into it. Top wire just high enough to step over without shocking your gonads. We use long weak springs to tension the wires (15/32 x 4-1/2 x .041), so that if a deer hits the fence, the wires don't break or pull over the posts. We make wire hooks at the corner insulators to hook one end of the spring over for dropping the wires. We use the Zareba 4612A bulldozer 12V shocker and deep cycle batteries, placed in an empty box just inside the fence. Drive a full 8 ft ground rod. In very dry areas, we either alternate hot/ground wires on the fence, or run a 2 ft strip of chicken wire on the ground, grounded to the charger. A good ground is absolutely critical, and if anyone can hold on to the hot wire, it's not hot enough. We have a test gage, and want the voltage to be at least 7000V, 9000V to the soil is better. Bacon or salami on the top wires at first setup. Once the bears learn the fence, they respect it even if the power goes low. This past month we had two bears get in, which is unusual. One found a boulder to step up on, and the other excavated under. Both were easy fixes with one of the two grounding fixes mentioned above. Randy Oliver Bears, bears, everywhere **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2008 18:04:03 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: randy oliver Subject: Re: mite-way II In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Mike, I got back to my yards today. We've been putting on Miteaway in the mid 80F range--above label recommendation. The strong doubles ignore it, keep feeding and broodrearing. My crew freaked when they saw some of the weaker colonies looking like there were no bees left after a few days, and pulled the pads. I checked back today, and most of them looked fine--somehow the bees reappeared. Problem was only with weaker singles (about 5-6 frames of bees). Substantial brood kill in those, but quick recovery. We put pollen patties inside the rim with the pad. All ate during treatment, except a few whose queen simply shut down. There was big colony-to-colony variability. Some queens ignored, some shut down at first, then picked back up, some shut down as long as the pad was in. It was easy to spot the shut downs, since they didn't eat any patty. We want to do more experimenting, such as leaving the screened bottom open--this appeared to work last year on two colonies that I tested it on. Mites apparently drop out of the hive. In hot weather, we are really liking Apiguard thymol gel between the brood chambers. Randy Oliver **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2008 22:26:43 -0300 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Peter Dillon Subject: Re: Honeybees can count In-Reply-To: <272214.48280.qm@web86202.mail.ird.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Maybe the bees can only make out a maximum of four smells! Peter **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2008 03:50:53 +0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Juanse Barros Subject: Re: Hives visible on Google maps In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline As a geographer in my previous life (before being a busy beekeper) I did a job for our tax office searching for the whole country over satellite images the change in land use. The search was directed towards new vine and fruit plantations. Of course not declared to the tax office. That was some 20 years ago. I use at present the above satelite database for finding good apiary sites in seach of Ulmo trees (Eucriptia cordifolia) probably one of the best honey around the world (IMnHO - In my NOT humble opinion) :-) Remote sensing and GIS are a great tool for beekeeping. -- Juanse Barros J. APIZUR S.A. Carrera 695 Gorbea - CHILE +56-45-271693 08-3613310 http://apiaraucania.blogspot.com/ juanseapi@gmail.com **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2008 04:10:17 +0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Juanse Barros Subject: Bears MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5g6a4GuFOFfT2uIM7IkUPxqE90D3QD93ENS080 -- Juanse Barros J. APIZUR S.A. Carrera 695 Gorbea - CHILE +56-45-271693 08-3613310 http://apiaraucania.blogspot.com/ juanseapi@gmail.com **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2008 22:28:33 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Nicholas Doumanoff Subject: Homeowners insurance and bees Comments: To: listserv@albany.edu Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v929.2) Friends of ours have a single hive in New Haven Connecticut on their property. A small lot but secluded enough by hedges and fences. They just received notice from their homeowners insurance that they are being dropped due to a "home made bee-hive" on the property. Has anyone else heard of this happening, and what can be done about it? As a side note, their honey won the blue ribbon for the best tasting honey at the Durham fair just last week! Thanks, Nick **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2008 19:38:01 -0700 Reply-To: mws1112004@yahoo.com Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Mike Stoops Subject: Re: Honeybees can count (Smells) In-Reply-To: <48E2D1D3.8040604@rogers.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii --- On Tue, 9/30/08, Peter Dillon wrote: Peter Maybe the bees can only make out a maximum of four smells! Not if they can pick out smells associated with explosives. (Bees used to detect mines) Mike in LA **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * ****************************************************