From MAILER-DAEMON Sat Feb 28 11:13:48 2009 Return-Path: <> X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.8 (2007-02-13) on industrial X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-86.9 required=2.4 tests=ADVANCE_FEE_1,AWL, MAILTO_TO_SPAM_ADDR,SPF_HELO_PASS,USER_IN_WHITELIST autolearn=disabled version=3.1.8 X-Original-To: adamf@IBIBLIO.ORG Delivered-To: adamf@IBIBLIO.ORG Received: from listserv.albany.edu (unknown [169.226.1.24]) by metalab.unc.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8D345490A8 for ; Sat, 28 Feb 2009 11:03:41 -0500 (EST) Received: from listserv.albany.edu (listserv.albany.edu [169.226.1.24]) by listserv.albany.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id n1SG3YXH017258 for ; Sat, 28 Feb 2009 11:03:41 -0500 (EST) Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2009 11:03:35 -0500 From: "University at Albany LISTSERV Server (14.5)" Subject: File: "BEE-L LOG0810A" To: adamf@IBIBLIO.ORG Message-ID: Content-Length: 95559 Lines: 2162 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2008 20:59:31 -0700 Reply-To: mws1112004@yahoo.com Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Mike Stoops Subject: Re: Homeowners insurance and bees In-Reply-To: <0514D3C4-7B52-4582-B790-D3D3FDDB3D7B@warwick.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable There is the "out" in the wording.=A0 I'm sure that the hive was not "homem= ade" but was at least cut and bought from a bee supply house.=A0=A0 Mike in= LA=A0 thinking wording is tricky. --- On Tue, 9/30/08, Nicholas Doumanoff wrotereceived= notice from their homeowners insurance that they are =20 being dropped due to a "home made bee-hive" on the property. =20 =0A=0A=0A **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2008 07:32:42 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: =?windows-1252?Q?Mike_Bassett?= Subject: Re: Homeowners insurance and bees Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit on Tue, 9/30/08, Nicholas Doumanoff wrotereceived notice from their homeowners insurance that they are >being dropped due to a "home made bee-hive" on the property. when I first started beekeeping long time ago, my wife worked for our insurance company. Had her check if we were covered for the bees on the property. You would be amazed at what you are not covered for including bees. If its not specificly mentioned in the policy they don't or will not cover you. I was the first person in town back then that got an inspection of my wood stove, insurance would not cover if not inspected, but they don't tell you that. when I still had bees in Mass and Conn. I had been having to move the hives do to insurance companies threating do drop the home owner's insurance if the bees remained. moving to N.Y. trying to get insurance, contacted Geico, in the process of getting insurance, asked about bees on the property, they hung up on me. called back and explained no bees on property, they said they would do random checks and drop up if we had bees. And I have a bee insurance policy on the bees. easiest method I found was to join Farm bureau and get there insurance. mike syracuse **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2008 08:38:18 -0400 Reply-To: lloyd@rossrounds.com Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Lloyd Spear Subject: Homeowners insurance and bees MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Mike, in Syracuse, is right. For those keeping hives in suburbia, the only way out of this dilemma is to get your insurance through Farm Family. Farm Family was formerly part of Agway. When Agway went bankrupt, Farm Family was spun off as a separate company. They used to require you belong to Farm Bureau to get a policy. While that requirement has been dropped, Farm Bureau members get a large enough discount from Farm Family that it pays for the Bureau membership! For those keeping hives in farm country the job is a lot easier. Just go to any agent selling casualty insurance to farmers. They know the insurers who understand farm risks and will be glad to insure beekeepers. Lloyd -- Lloyd Spear Owner Ross Rounds, Inc. Manufacture of equipment for round comb honey sections, Sundance Pollen Traps, and producer of Sundance custom labels. Contact your dealer or www.RossRounds.com **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2008 12:53:15 GMT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "waldig@netzero.com" Subject: Re: Honeybees can count Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit >>It might be interesting next year to split up your rows into blocks of 4 with a distinctive marker between each block... It would be interesting to try this and other hive orientation patterns that are said to minimize drifting. Here in suburbia though, I try to keep tight hive clusters to increase the distance to neightbors' property lines. Transposing and placing strongest hives in worst spots does a good job of equalizing populations that still bring in the honey. Purely anecdotal on my part but I believe that 3 deep/ unlimited broodnests lessen drifting. Perhaps because the larger bee populations emit more unique queen scent from each hive making it easier for the returning forager to find their true home? Anyone else have thoughts on this? Waldemar **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2008 13:11:55 GMT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "waldig@netzero.com" Subject: Re: Hives visible on Google maps Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit >>in seach of Ulmo trees (Eucriptia cordifolia) probably one of the best honey around the world... What is the hardiness of Ulmo trees? Anyone know if they are available in North America? Waldemar **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2008 10:10:37 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Jerry Bromenshenk Subject: Re: Honeybees can count MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit With 10 years of data from hive mounted counters on as many as 50 colonies of bees, we've documented lots about hive placement and bee flight. I know and respect Srini and his work in Australia. He's a good colleague, does some amazing work. **************Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial challenges? Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and calculators. (http://www.walletpop.com/?NCID=emlcntuswall00000001) **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2008 10:22:02 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Jerry Bromenshenk Subject: Re: Honeybees can count MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit 2nd try, sorry about the incomplete message. My laptop has a touch pad. I have to detune touch pads, radiate too much heat from my hands. Merely waving my hands over the pad sometimes triggers it. Anyway, Srini does some great research. However, his work on bee distance clocking (like a speedometer) doesn't necessarily mean that they know that they are in the 4th hive from the left. We did that test in the early 80s. 3 colonies on a big, grassy lawn, moved a short distance forward and to the left. I expected that the returning bees wouldn't notice any chance. Yet, one hive filled with bees, the other two colonies had only the queen and the youngest bees. The bees went in to the hive closest to the original left/right position of the colonies before they were moved - and these colonies had only been in place on the open lawn for 24 hrs. So, they didn't count, did not know that their hive was the one on the left, in the middle, or on the right. They keyed on the GPS position, on an unmarked lawn! Now, our counters tell us some interesting things about bee forage flights and position. We see some drift along lines of hives, with the end (downwind) one tending to pick up bees. We see other colonies, regardless of position, that always lose bees (percent return is always lower than normal - or the average for the beeyard). Other colonies always pick up bees (percent return exceeds 100%). This happens day after day. Which colonies lose bees, which pick up bees, has little to do with position. Move these hives to another beeyard, the same return pattern persists. Finally, colonies facing the sun get up and start working 30 minutes to an hour earlier than those facing away from the sun. All colonies return home and suspend work about the same time - so the bees that sleep in don't make up for the lost time. Jerry **************Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial challenges? Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and calculators. (http://www.walletpop.com/?NCID=emlcntuswall00000001) **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2008 10:37:16 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Kirk_Jones?= Subject: bear fences...tweaks on fencing for Randy Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi all, Thanks Randy for sharing your fencing techniques. I also like the pin-locks. But....I put the wire on the outside and use the pin-lock wire holders for the outside corners. This is working and save valuable time for me. The pin-lock wire holders will keep the wire from grounding around the outside corner. Another tweak is to put the entrance tee posts with the flat end in towards the entrance and use the pin-lock wire holders to terminate the wire run without a lot of extra work. The wire will wrap around without grounding. Saves more time. I like the Intellirope from Premier One(maybe other suppliers) for the top strand to prevent deer and snowmobilers from hitting it. It has a good life span. Nice for the gate too. http://www.premier1supplies.com/detail.php?prod_id=606&cat_id=41 Kirk Jones www.sleepingbearfarms.com **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2008 12:50:05 -0400 Reply-To: bee-quick@bee-quick.com Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: James Fischer Subject: Nissan sensor modeled on bee eyes for auto crash avoidance MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The only drawback is that passengers are driven to distraction by the incessant buzzing noise. http://tinyurl.com/4wddwr or http://www.japantoday.com/category/technology/view/nissan-develops-crash-avo idance-robotic-car **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2008 15:10:54 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: James Plaisted Subject: Re: Bear Question In-Reply-To: <3dcef4a10809301751p79f9a21ak3f295407d5db9e4a@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Randy =20 One word of caution on putting your wire to the inside of your posts=2C a s= mart bear will pull your post out without ever getting shocked. Haven't ha= d it happen yet=2C but have heard of it happening to others. Also=2C wires= should go to the top of the post for same reason. =20 =20 Jim =20 http://www.northernqueens.com/ _________________________________________________________________ See how Windows connects the people=2C information=2C and fun that are part= of your life. http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/msnnkwxp1020093175mrt/direct/01/= **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2008 01:58:52 +0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Juanse Barros Subject: Eucryphia cordifolia = Ulmo MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline http://tinyurl.com/4h9nx4 http://tinyurl.com/4rbc7s Its wood is very apreciated for furniture and firewood. It had been heavily logged. It is endemic of southern Chile (and a tinybit of Argentina in the border of Chile, Nahuelhuapi area). It is a relative of Leatherwood of Tasmania (Eucryphia *lucida). Ulmo honey taste and aroma as that of Aniseed, Jasmine, Vanilla and Cloves with a touch of Tea and Caramel. It has a perfect buttery creamy texture and light cream color (pfund 50 mm) that could be paired with mild cheese. **Ulmo honey was 4 times more effective than the Manuka Honey at inhibiting the growth and development of Staphylococcus aureus and two times better for Escherichia coli. *You can find a sample of it hereIt is not my production, but Ulmo is Ulmo (and it is chilean). * *-- Juanse Barros J. APIZUR S.A. Carrera 695 Gorbea - CHILE +56-45-271693 08-3613310 http://apiaraucania.blogspot.com/ juanseapi@gmail.com **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2008 20:54:14 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Peter_de_Bruyn_Kops?= Subject: Re: bear fences...tweaks on fencing for Randy Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit > Kirk Jones wrote: >I also like the pin-locks. But....I put the wire on the outside and use the >pin-lock wire holders for the outside corners. I pound in steel posts at corners, then slip PVC pipe over posts. Then I wrap Premier Intellirope tightly around the outside so I do not need any pin locks, hooks or other wire holders. When I have to move hives in and out of the enclosure (via hand truck), I slide the Intellirope down the posts to ground level, wheel the hives in, then slide the rope back up the posts. **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2008 20:41:09 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: Re: Honeybees can count In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello Jerry & All, Jerry said: Yet, one hive filled with bees, the other two > colonies had only the queen and the youngest bees. I am glad to see the above. One *hypothesis* I put forth at the Austin ABF convention as to a *possible explanation* for CCD ( in the first days) was that the bees became disorinted and returned to the wrong hive. The above hive would contain all the brood but no adult bees. > Which colonies lose bees, which pick up bees, has little to do with > position. Move these hives to another beeyard, the same return pattern > persists. I have been watching this phenomono my entire time keeping bees. In commercial beekeeping you strive to keep the whole yard at exactly the same strength so when one needs a super all the others do also. The most common way to accomplish this is to "trash the Yard" . In other words make all hives even in brood/bees. Once done for the first week or two the project seems a success and then the phenomonon Jerry speaks of takes over and bees start moving to other hives creating imbalance. I have found that keeping young queens helps with the problem. Swarming can be the result. At times hobby beeks think the hive gaining all the bees is because of a prolific queen ( which is a possible hypothesis but not always the reason for the quick rise in hive numbers) These hives usually need some extra swarm controls. > Finally, colonies facing the sun get up and start working 30 minutes to an > hour earlier than those facing away from the sun. Some races fly earlier also. The Australian bees I run fly an hour earlier than my other bees. All colonies return home > and suspend work about the same time - I agree! We have been cleaning up the honey processing area and all the races in the home yard have been trying to provide help ( rob) . When sunset comes they all disappear at almost exactly the same time. My Italians /Australians and Russians are easy for me to tell apart. All up robbing although they have a full feeder in the hive. My new area is set up so I can pick up all but one piece of equipment with my forklift and sit outside. The bees clean up nicely. I then rinse with hot water/ power wash , wash with clorox water and put away for next season. For years I fought trying to clean around fixed equipment. I recommend the method to all. bob **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2008 22:08:40 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: ALDEN MARSHALL Subject: Re: Homeowners insurance and bees MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=Windows-1252; reply-type=original Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Bassett" To: Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2008 7:32 AM Subject: Re: [BEE-L] Homeowners insurance and bees > > easiest method I found was to join Farm bureau and get there insurance. > > mike syracuse > > No longer have to be FB member. Contact Farm Family Ins. Co. Farm Bureau can refer you to local rep. Alden Marshall Hudson, NH **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2008 11:32:27 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Jerry Bromenshenk Subject: Re: Honeybees can count MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Only problem with the 'drifting bees' in terms of CCD - we don't get an influx of bees into other colonies, not in the same yard, nor any nearby yards. I've watched thousands of colonies in holding areas decline, none gained dramatically, yet millions of bees disappeared. As per equalizing and a few weeks later, the colonies are back to original status - our counters confirms - colonies that collect bees continue to do so, regardless of whether you steal frames. Colonies of bees that lose bees continue to do so, even if you add frames of brood, etc. Like Bob, I suspect it may be queen-related, possibly pheromone. Jerry **************Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial challenges? Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and calculators. (http://www.walletpop.com/?NCID=emlcntuswall00000001) **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2008 13:41:21 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: =?windows-1252?Q?Mike_Bassett?= Subject: new york bill a01999 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I heard about this on the news the other day, but it didn't mention new labling for honey but a look at the version of the bill that I found includes honey? but I can't tell if has passed or not? Says it starts Oct 1. anybody know anything about it? http://assembly.state.ny.us/leg/?bn=A01999&sh=t thanks mike syracuse **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2008 18:54:34 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "Peter L. Borst" Subject: Potential shift of small hive beetle to bumblebees MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Neumann, P., Hoffmann, D., Pettis, J.S. 2008. Potential host shift of the small hive beetle (Aethina tumida Murray) to bumblebee colonies (Bombus impatiens Cresson). Insectes Sociaux. 55:153-162. Interpretive Summary: > Honey bee colonies are infested by a wide variety of pests and diseases. One such pest is the small hive beetle which was recently introduced into the U.S. from Africa. Because this beetle feeds on pollen and honey it has the potential to infest other types of bee colonies such as bumblebees. We found that small hive beetles are as attracted to bumblebee colonies as they are to honey bee colonies but that bumblebees do exhibit some behaviors that will help defend against beetles invading their hives. Thus small hive beetles could infest and damage bumblebee colonies in nature. Field surveys are necessary to evaluate the actual infestation status of wild social bee colonies. **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2008 20:05:53 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Lionel Evans Subject: Hive beetles MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Has anyone had any trouble with hive beetles? I have had a couple of hives to get weak, (swarmed and did not raise a = queen), that were over come by beetles. What is the most effective and best treatment to get rid of these pests? North Alabama has a real infestation. Strong hives can keep control, but = what is going to happen when the bees cluster?=20 Lionel North AL. **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2008 18:51:11 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Mike McDonald Subject: Re: new york bill a01999 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit It appears that the General Assembly passed this bill unanimously. It was then sent to the Senate, where it was sent to committee last February. It's still in committee. The bill died in committee once and looks like it may do so again. Personally, I favor Country of Origin labeling for honey, as well as other products. A friend in the cattle industry has been working hard to make this happen for nearly a decade. In the end, Country of Origin labeling can only help U.S. honey producers. Mike McDonald **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2008 12:48:50 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Mike Rossander Subject: Re: new york bill a01999 In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable According to the legislative history (http://assembly.state.ny.us/leg/?bn= =3DA01999, http://assembly.state.ny.us/leg/?bn=3DS07204=A0and http://assemb= ly.state.ny.us/leg/?bn=3DS06425), the bill passed the NY Assembly and was p= assed over to the NY Senate where it was sent to their Consumer Protection = committee.=A0 It doesn't look like any action has been taken since mid-Marc= h.=A0 Since the legislative process has not been finished, it can't be in e= ffect (regardless of the planned start date of 1 Oct). =A0 In related NY law, it already is illegal for anyone to remove or conceal a = mark of origin. =A0(General Business Statute Article 26 =A7=A0 392-c)=A0 Th= at's the only other reference I could find to origin marking.=A0 So you can= label your honey and the retailer can't obscure or deface it but it doesn'= t look like NY law does anything yet to force the other guy to label. Mike Rossander=0A=0A=0A **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 Oct 2008 06:39:53 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Michael Palmer Subject: Re: new york bill a01999 In-Reply-To: <1222991472.27114.5.camel@Cuthbert> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed > In the end, Country of Origin >labeling can only help U.S. honey producers. I agree, as long as they put it right up there next to the "USDA Grade A" Mike **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 Oct 2008 22:49:04 -0400 Reply-To: bee-quick@bee-quick.com Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: James Fischer Subject: Re: new york bill a01999 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > In the end, Country of Origin labeling > can only help U.S. honey producers. We can do better. I'm I strong supporter of COUNTY or organ labeling. Not just country, but county. "Local" is all the rage these days, so don't be afraid to find those "localvores", and charge them the same premium that everyone else charges for "local" food. **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 4 Oct 2008 05:31:26 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: C Hooper Subject: Bee Venom Therapy Boosts Traditional Rheumatoid Arthritis Medications Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Bee Venom Therapy Boosts Traditional Rheumatoid Arthritis Medications Clinical Randomized Study of Bee-Sting Therapy for Rheumatoid Arthritis Zhen Ci Yan Jiu, 2008 Jun;33(3):197-200 Objective: To observe the clinical effect of bee-sting (venom) therapy in the treatment of rheumatoid arthritis (RA)… Conclusion: Combined application of bee-venom therapy and medication is superior to simple use of medication in relieving RA, and when bee-sting therapy used, the commonly-taken doses of western medicines may be reduced, and the relapse rate gets lower. www.ApitherapyNews.com - The Internet's Best Source of Information About the Medicinal Use of Bee Products **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 4 Oct 2008 11:32:54 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "Peter L. Borst" Subject: Canadian Honey Council asking for $50 million MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline The Canadian Honey Council is asking for $50 million for disaster relief from the government after another year of bee losses across the country. In Canada, the average loss of hives was 33 per cent last year. Some areas, like Peace River in Alberta and Vancouver, lost 70 per cent of hives this past winter. President of the honey council and owner of Planet Bee in Vernon, Ed Nowek, wants solutions. "If you can imagine someone losing 70 per cent of their livelihood," said Nowek, "it's not just the loss of the bees, but also the income of those bees. Then the cost of replacing them, which can be insurmountable for some people if you don't have bees to generate the income." Last year Planet Bee had losses of more than 50 per cent, and this year his losses were 15 per cent. "There has been two years now of way over average losses," he said. It was a similar story at Stawn's Honey. They lost 25 per cent this year, which is better than half their population like in 2007, but the trend still leaves part-owner Kristy Anderson worried. "We didn't lose as much, but still have losses," said Anderson, "but that is normal for everyone now." Anderson knows a beekeeper who had 500 hives, and lost everything this year. She has seen beekeepers selling their businesses because of losses, and it takes constant monitoring and money to keep their bees healthy. "People are just getting discouraged, and many of the people in this business are older and it is really hard work to keep up," she said. "We have a project called Hive Health that we want government funding for," said Nowek. "We need government help bad, so in addition to our $50 million disaster relief, we are asking for $10 million over five years to fund this Hive Health initiative." Source: vernonmorningstar.com **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 4 Oct 2008 11:42:07 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "Peter L. Borst" Subject: Short educational film on bee biology MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Short educational film on bee biology http://www.sundancechannel.com/videos/230320958 -- Pete **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 5 Oct 2008 00:22:53 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: Re: Canadian Honey Council asking for $50 million In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > The Canadian Honey Council is asking for $50 million for disaster > relief from the government after another year of bee losses across the > country. Open letter to the Canada beeks on the list: The solution lies with the beekeepers. Quit listening to the powers that be and start looking deeper at the locations of your losses. The plants in your area. Even from the U.S. we see visible patterns emerging. My friends in Europe see patterns in Canada. In the U.S. the powers that be do not want to take on the chemical companies. When you are keeping the normal bee problems under control and still seeing losses then you need to look elsewhere for the problem. simple. At first beekeepers around the world bought into the idea they *might* be the problem. Always the first line of defense by chemical giants. Then those beeks started keeping better control on mites and nosema but the hives keep dying. No new chemical smoking gun will be found in my opinion. In my opinion and many of my fellow beeks throwing money at the problem is not going to solve the current die offs. Sure it will help rebuild but what about the next time. In Europe the hives keep crashing unless chemical companies are reined in ( which I do not believe will ever happen in Canada or the U.S.) *If* you fund research into problems concerning chemicals make sure those doing the research will be willing to follow the evidence and not afraid to stand behind findings pointing in the direction of chemical companies. When certain chemicals are banned the situation improves. Do not let people tell you otherwise. Do not let the chemical companies blame misapplication as the *sole cause* of problems. The damage to bees from the chemical companies is hard to detect. Hard to prove. Changes are needed in your operations. New chemicals are being registered for crops pollinated or worked by bees. Some even allowed while the bees are on the bloom. When beeks complain about a certain chemical the chemical companies change the formula slightly and register under a new name which is a smart tactic as causes problems for beeks as then you have got 2 to many named products to fight against instead of one. A new tactic which I have never seen used before by chemical companies. The reason why beeks are taking the fight to the EPA. Progress is being made to stop the above process. Registration is getting harder. Those researching the bee die offs in Canada and the U.S. ignore the facts about the areas and the crops being worked being involved in bee problems. In the U.S. avoiding certain crops and areas using certain chemicals is part of the key to survival. True hive health is essential but look at the areas hardest hit in Canada and oddly enough they are the areas in Canada in which the chemicals I am always talking about are used the most. 1. make a map of the areas hardest hit in Canada. 2. check with your agriculture people to see what chemicals etc. are being used. If you are like the U.S. beeks which have looked at your problems you will see a pattern. I think your Ag people might be right when they say CCD is not the problem. bob **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 5 Oct 2008 11:01:45 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: Fumagilin-B In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello All, Months ago when I first brought attention on BEE-L to beeks using Fumagilin as a drench ( myself for months) and felt the uproar from my critics as to the practice. Against label was the cry. Only when the actual label was posted did they quickly become silent. I only wonder if those people which caused the stir back then about labels even read the label but lets move on. Now that we all know the label DOES include using fumidil as a drench and in a much higher dose ( as the old method used with fumidil fed in two gallons of syrup) as as often as needed in severe cases I want now to discuss the label. >From the Medivat label: quote: "Heavily infested colonies that will no longer take syrup may be sprayed repeatedly, directly on the bees, frame by frame with 1.1 sugar syrup containing 2 G. of fumidil per litre of syrup" A rough estimate figures the above over 10 times the old label. Repeatedly? Some say the process needs done around 4 times at regular intervals. Now I have been running experiments for months and can sare my observations as well as Randy Oliver has been running experiments also. Randy has shared unpublished information to help me and I have done the same. How are others appliying the drench ( tools) and what are they seeing? What levels are effective with bees not taking syrup with high levels of nosema ceranae? According to looking at the old fumidil label from a decade ago the rates for mixing fumigilin B has increased. The new label is in litres and in the U.S. beeks are most familiar with gallon measures so I wonder if those feeding are still using the old measure which for commercial beeks was to drop one 9.5 gram bottle split between 2 fifty five gallon drums of syrup and feed for winter. question: Is the new Medvet fumigilin-B not as strong as the old fumidl or is nosema ( both) getting harder to control with the Medvet version? >From Medvet label for fall treatment: 7-8 litres for each 2 chamber colony ( approx. 30,000 bees) 4 litres for each 1 chamber colony (approx. 18,000 bees) 1 litre for each 5 frame colony (approx. 12,000 bees) Am I understanding wrong or is 7-8 litres per each 2 chamber hive a hell of a lot higher amount of mix than the old 2 gallons of fumidlil mix we fed for years? I am speaking to a large group of Kansas beeks next week so want to be sure what I tell and recommend as to per label and correct. >From the Medvet label water +Sugar = syrup + Fumigilin-B 165 L 330 KG 380L. 454 G. 35L 69 KG 80L 96G. 8.7L 17 KG 20L 24G. 1.8L 3.6KG 4L 5G. At the meeting I need to be able to talk in gallons as easier to explain to U.S. beekeepers. I could convert the above myself but need to get out the door as today is another work day until seasons end. Could those on the list (with time on their hands) break down the above from litres and KG into gallons & pounds and tell me if ( as suspect) that the label now recommends feeding the fall fumidil in more that 2 gallons of syrup per hive if a normal strength hive in 2 deeps as is common in our area and in the northern half of the U.S. comments? Thanks for your help. I suspect many beeks on the list are done for the year. I am not so ask your help. Busy time of year. Sincerely, Bob Harrison **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 5 Oct 2008 21:10:58 -0300 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Peter Dillon Subject: Re: Fumagilin-B In-Reply-To: <23022F2534D646DAB61F75533D2FA530@bobPC> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Bob, I presume that you are referring to US gallons rather than Imperial gallons! Without wanting to stir up a hornets nest - I cannot understand why individuals still work in non metric units. Dollars and cents seem to have been accepted as a going concern. Peter **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 5 Oct 2008 20:50:37 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Darrell Subject: Re: Fumagilin-B In-Reply-To: <23022F2534D646DAB61F75533D2FA530@bobPC> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v753) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On 5-Oct-08, at 12:01 PM, Bob Harrison wrote: > > Am I understanding wrong or is 7-8 litres per each 2 chamber hive a > hell of > a lot higher amount of mix than the old 2 gallons of fumidlil mix > we fed for > years? > Hi Bob and all 1 US gallon = 3.78 litres 2 US gallons = 7.56 litres(pretty close to 7-8) 1 kg = 2.2 lb Bob Darrell Caledon Ontario Canada 44N80W **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 5 Oct 2008 17:40:09 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: randy oliver Subject: Re: Fumagilin-B In-Reply-To: <23022F2534D646DAB61F75533D2FA530@bobPC> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline HI Bob, A liter is slightly more than a quart, so 7-8 liters is in the 2 gallon range. The amount of syrup is not as important as the amount of active ingredient given to the colony. As far as I know, Fumagilin-B is the same as Fumidil-B except that it dissolves easier. Nosema ceranae apparently may require a slightly higher dose than N apis. When drenched, it apparently requires about 25% more a.i. than the in-syrup dose recommended for N apis. Commercial beekeepers are having success drenching with 12oz of of medicated syrup made by dissolving 1 large (454g) bottle of Fumagilin-B into 7 gallons of 1:1 syrup. (Or 8oz, made with 1 bottle in 5 gal). I have extensive articles coming out in ABJ and Bee Culture, and will post to my website within days. Randy **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 5 Oct 2008 21:42:40 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: Re: Fumagilin-B In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="UTF-8"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >Hmm. If you are going to make recommendations on the use of drugs in syrup you might want to take the trouble to learn how to convert liters and gallons. That's what I was asking PB. Did you convert the Canada info for me? Not to worry as a list member did the complete conversion for my talk except for the drench which I will work out as soon as I finish this post. I have had most my questions answered off list. The question now is if 2 g. in a liter recommended for drench on the Canada label is a higher dose than when fed in 2 gallons of feed or the same. label in gallons is: one 9.5 bottle (454 G.) in 44 gallons of 1-1 syrup. However the way I mix is by placing the fumidil in approx 88 gallons of syrup ( advice Mid Con) but some fed the 44 gallon and follow with a 44 gallon of plain `1-1 syrup. I now drench only as cheaper with better results. My talk is Oct. 6th. at 7PM in Lawrence, Kansas at the library. The meeting is the meeting of the Northeast Kansas Beekeepers. I rarely give talks and have turned down talks all over the country but close friends twisted my arm. Sincerely, Bob Harrison Still using gallon & pound measures. Not familiar with liters and Imperial gallons unless a calculator is handy. Ps. Thanks to Randy Oliver, Kim Flottum and Nick Behrens for their informative emails. Randy Oliver's upcoming Bee Culture article ( Nosema ceranae -Not your fathers nosema) is most informative and I thank Randy for sending. The news from Kim Flottum is shocking concerning the length of time nosema ceranae has been in the U.S. but will let Kim Flottum break the news in his next column in Bee Culture. Beekeeping knowledge is changing fast concerning nosema ceranae. According to the facts Kim Flottum shared and after reading Randys next article one part of Randys article is dated already concerning the amount of time nosema ceranae has been in the U.S. I also received an email from Kevin Hackett ( USDA-ARS Senior National Program leader) saying the Tucson Bee Lab is working hard to find the answers to my questions about *why* bees live half as long when fed HFCS as compared to sucrose. Kevin says he hopes to have reliable results within the next few months. **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 5 Oct 2008 20:41:25 -0700 Reply-To: gfcg7312003@yahoo.com Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Grant Gillard Subject: Re: Homeowners insurance and bees In-Reply-To: <0514D3C4-7B52-4582-B790-D3D3FDDB3D7B@warwick.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable As my apiaries grew, I inquired about liability insurance.=A0 My homeower's= agent said, "No way!" but he was kind enough to hook me up with a business= insurance guy who shopped the market, found me insurance and wrote the pol= icy. =A0 I checked with my local Farm Bureau and they treated me like a leper.=A0 I = even quoted (from other beekeepers who used Farm Bureau) the exact kind of = coverage other beekeepers were buying.=A0 I'd probably have better luck ins= uring a nuclear bomb manufacturing plant. =A0 I'd also make more money! =A0 Grant Jackson, MO =A0 =A0=0A=0A=0A **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2008 04:14:14 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Chris Slade Subject: Re: Fumagilin-B MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 06/10/2008 00:10:50 GMT Standard Time, busybeeacres@HUGHES.NET writes: A rough estimate figures the above over 10 times the old label. Repeatedly? So are we seeing resistance arising in Nosema as it does with everything else that is hit with the same treatment time after time? Chris **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2008 08:47:51 -0400 Reply-To: lloyd@rossrounds.com Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Lloyd Spear Subject: Metrics vrs English measurements MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Peter said "Without wanting to stir up a hornets nest - I cannot understand why individuals still work in non metric units. Dollars and cents seem to have been accepted as a going concern." In the early 70's, when I was a part of a multinational manufacturing company, the US corporate world was well on its way to metrics and we were enthuasiastic. However, it was clear that little real progress would be make without a congressional mandate. That was also going well, with the then President's support expressed as 'keeping America competitive in a changing world'. But there came a day in the House when a Democrat (I think it was Ted Kennedy) got up on the floor and said (approximately) 'why are we discussing this'? 'We have the strongest economy in the world, but we are talking about retraining and reeducating 150 million people presently communicating very well using inches, feet, pounds, ounces, bushels, and pecks.' 'It seems the only ones who want this change, and who will benefit, is Corporate America, and why should 150 million of us accomodate those few?" That populist speech shut down the discussions...to this very day. It seems clear that to some we should not consider metrics until such time as our nation is destitute. Remember...elections are near. Lloyd **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2008 06:49:27 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: bman140 Subject: Re: Fumagilin-B In-Reply-To: <48E95792.70402@rogers.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =A0Peter Dillon wrote: I cannot understand why=20 individuals still work in non metric units. =A0 =A0It could be because that's the way we're taught to so things. I've never= dealt with or saw so many people work with metric units until I started be= ekeeping. Ed=0A=0A=0A **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2008 10:28:43 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Peter_de_Bruyn_Kops?= Subject: Re: Fumagilin-B Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Chris Slade wrote: >So are we seeing resistance arising in Nosema as it does with everything >else that is hit with the same treatment time after time? We are comparing Fumidil made by one company in one decade with Fumigilin made by a different company in the present decade. I'm not prepared to assume without strong evidence that the concentration of those two products is equivalent. On top of that, it seems the dosage today is aimed at N. Ceranae and the dosage years ago was aimed at N. apis. **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2008 12:05:49 UT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Phil CHandler Subject: Bees, pesticides and sugar beet Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: binary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Dear Beekeeper, I recently circulated a warning about possible Imidacloprid contamination in sugar beet, which many beekeepers feed to their bees. Since this has caused some discussion, I thought you may like to hear some facts that I discovered while checking the original story. 1. Imidacloprid is a neonicotinoid pesticide (i.e. similar in chemical structure to nicotine) now routinely used as a seed dressing on sugar beet - for up to two years in the UK, considerably longer in the USA and elsewhere. 2. Imidacloprid is a systemic insecticide, meaning that it permeates every cell of the plant, even if only used as a seed dressing. That means it WILL be present in the sugar, as processing does not affect it. 3. Imidacloprid is a powerful neurotoxin, lethal to bees in doses as small as five parts per billion, and has serious sub-lethal effects - including disorientation - at much lower doses. To put that in context, if you took ONE THOUSAND METRIC TONNES of 1:1 syrup made with beet sugar, and stirred in just ONE TEASPOONFUL of Imidacloprid, you would have a mixture capable of killing bees. Please read that last sentence again and think about it. 4. Imidacloprid is persistent in plant cells and in the soil (half-life in soil under aerobic conditions of up to 997 days), where it kills ALL insects - including beneficial ones - and it accumulates, season on season, until it reaches a 'stable' level, assumed by some authorities to be something like 10 parts per billion. It is also likely to contaminate ground water. 5. The US 'Environmental Protection Agency' has approved permitted levels of Imidacloprid in sugar beet of 0.05 parts per million - that is at least TEN TIMES the lethal dose for bees. Do you still think it is safe to feed sugar beet syrup to your bees? And where is the British Bee Keepers Association in all this? Still taking money from Bayer in return for endorsing some of their pesticides (not, so far, including neonicotinoids) as 'Bee Friendly'. Has the BBKA come out with a statement condemning the use of Imidacloprid, or the closely related Clothianidin, which killed nearly half a billion bees in Germany in May this year? Have they ever issued a statement supporting the German and French beekeepers' call for a ban on neonicotinoids? Has the BBKA ever criticised ANY of Bayer's products? All I have seen is a series of half-hearted, limp statements that defend the status quo. However, please do not imagine that I am 'anti-BBKA'. I want the BBKA to be a strong campaigning body on behalf of bees and beekeepers, not a puppet of Bayer's marketing department. They should be free and independent of all commercial interests and should represent beekeepers, NOT chemical corporations that have no interest in the health of bees, other than the profit they may make from selling medications like Bayvarol (that ultimately make the Varroa problem worse by selecting for pyrethroid-resistant mites). I urge all UK beekeepers to lobby the BBKA through their local branch to abandon their mute acceptance of 'cash for chemicals' from Bayer, Syngenta or any other company, and to to request that they make a clear statement supporting organic farming, which is the only safe option for bees. Philip Chandler www.biobees.com NOTES 1. The facts about Imidacloprid in this message have been checked by a microbiologist. Please read the attached report for more information about neonicotinoids. 2. You can read more about Imidacloprid here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imidacloprid 3. You can read the EPA's document on Imidacloprid here: http://www.epa.gov/EPA-PEST/1998/September/Day-18/p25085.htm 4. If you do NOT wish to hear from me again, with immediate effect, please use the link below. http://www.biobees.com/cgi-bin/fump/register.cgi?un=3tbHj3_XW2ZB **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2008 15:28:01 GMT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "deknow@netzero.net" Subject: Re: Bees, pesticides and sugar beet Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi Phil, This is all good information...but a key link is missing. I agree that imidacloprid is highly toxic to bees. I have no reason to doubt the uses and residue limits you cite. Yet....what are the actual levels being found in the sugar? In the hive? In field bees that die away from the hive? This seems like easy to obtain data...something that perhaps someone who buys sugar in quantity to feed bees might have already done. It isn't like we don't have access to the final product (beet sugar) to test it. This would make a much more convincing argument. deknow **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2008 16:10:54 +0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Gavin Ramsay Subject: Re: Bees, pesticides and sugar beet MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi Phil I've contributed recently on this topic to another forum which, I believe, previously decided to ban you for the way you were treating other forum members. You might have missed the discussion there, so I'm happy to explain here too if you like. I don't really understand your campaign against beet sugar. As a result of the stuff being posted there I made enquiries from British Sugar, the company making most of the beet sugar sold in the UK, to clarify a statement they had already put out. They told me that they routinely employ an accredited company for quality control of their product and have never ever had a detection of imidacloprid in their product using a method which detects imidacloprid at 1 ppb. I do accept that there are studies which suggest sub-lethal effects at 0.5 ppb, but there are also studies which show a lack of long-term effects in bee colonies at much higher levels. However, no detection is no detection and I can't believe that there is a problem with this product in UK beet sugar. I'll leave it for others to comment on whether the EPA got it wrong. The reasons for the lack of imidacloprid in beet sugar are not hard to spot. A tiny amount goes in on the seed in comparison to the large harvest of beet roots. Although it is a systemic insecticide it is not partitioned to the roots (one study found only 0.1% of applied imidacloprid in the root but much higher levels in foliage), and the refining process removes impurities too. Consider the higher levels of imidacloprid you would expect to see in nectar and pollen from oilseed rape, by far the biggest spring source of nectar and pollen in most arable areas in the UK. A large intake of the pesticide you would imagine (from the imidacloprid seed dressing now used extensively in the UK on OSR) compared to the trace possible for beet sugar, yet colonies appear to build up just as they have always done on this particular forage. Summer colony collapse isn't seen in the UK, and our recent problems in winter can't be due to early spring forage contamination given the turn-over in the hive through the summer and autumn. As to your comments on organic farming and your wish for the BBKA to lobby for its adoption, we are currently facing concerns over the security of the food supply and rising prices worldwide. Are you able to point me to an independent, thorough review of the likely effects on food production (and prices) should major producing countries go over totally to tightly defined organic production methods? best wishes Gavin PS How can we 'opt out' of receiving more emails from you if you are transmitting them through Bee-L?! **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2008 11:22:09 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: Re: Fumagilin-B In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Chris asks: > So are we seeing resistance arising in Nosema as it does with everything > else that is hit with the same treatment time after time? I believe that nosema ceranae is less effected by the current formula of fumagilin than nosema apis was. I have tried to find a viable bottle of the old fumidil for testing but all bottles found are way past the exporation date. Bob Harrison opinion: Nosema ceranae is tough to cure. Randy Oliver started looking into nosema ceranae around the same time as i did. We agreed on some points but had to agree to disagree on others. One of the points was I said from my observations the new nosema C. was a killer of bees and *the* main issue in CCD. I said so in my ABJ article last fall. Nosema C. was found in 100% of CCD samples. Randy was not so sure and decided to run test yards. His articles are mainly from those test yards and try to answer why some bees can survive with high spore counts and others fail. As Randy and I discussed the issue I was puzzled myself as Nosema C. should be taking out whole yards and it wasn't in most cases in his test yards or mine. I now believe the reason why is because of the very long time nosema C. has been in the country and in bee hives around the world undetected. Randys article says at least from 1995 in the U.S. by going back and testing samples. Unpublished but documented testing now seems to place widespread nosema C. in the U.S. farther back (much farther back). I believe nosema ceranae infestation in the U.S. is in most apiaries and due to the decades of being in the U.S. some bees have become nosema C. tolerant and can handle high spore counts. The bees we need to start using in our breeding programs. I also believe that by many commercial beeks using fumidil to control nosema apis for decades (which has effect on nosema C. ) the complete collapse of our U.S. bee industry has not been seen like in Spain when nosema C. wiped out most of the bee population. It is my opinion based on my experiments with nosema C. that feeding as per label as a preventative fumagilin does help prevent widespread hive loss. However only in bees which are not heavily infested and bees in equipment which does not have a heavy spore load. reusing equipment with heavy nosema ceranae spore load quickly brings the problem back ( Bob harrison tests). However if seen early enough the effects can be reversed using a strong drench. it is my opinion that higher amounts drenched on bees not taking feed will most times turn the bees around but recovery time is dependent on many factors some of which I do not fully understand and may never understand. A point Randy was right on and I was wrong on in our talks last fall. My solution back then was to depopulate and sterilize equipment with acetic acid. However both our positions had merit. Starting over with clean equipment is costly but a proven problem solver but drenching keeps you in business doing pollination and producing honey. It is my opinion ( and possibly not Randy Oliver's and Eric Mussins) that when you see bees jumping into feeders with high spore counts ( starving because of the fungi in the midgut and not able to take feed) that those hives are not worth treating. Further research is needed. I did turn a few dead bees in feeder hives around by removing the feeder and giving a clean feeder with fresh syrup( plus drench). I never checked the spore level in the feeder but some suspect the feeder could be spreading nosema spores. My friend Horace Bell and I had a long conversation on the subject last January and he even suspected that bees could pick up spores from a pond or water source. I had no opinion but certainly possible I would think. Could the nosema fungi stay viable in a water source or a hive feeder? Randy does not address the bees dying in the feeder in his next article but because I use inside feeders I *always* see the symptom when the hive is drawing its last breath. Maybe Randy will comment. Of course *if* you use a top feeder and the bees have not got access to the syrup you will not see the dead bees in feeder symptom. As far as I know only a handful of beeks and researchers are looking at nosema C. with prevention and control for the beekeeper. The industry owes Randy a debt of gratitude for his nosema articles. I do not see how Randy gets his bee work done. I have a list of articles which need done or finished for both ABJ & BC but the beekeeping comes first and then the articles. I wanted to completely retire from beekeeping. Actually because i was beginning to get bored. Then CCD came along and now I am not bored. Fighting to keep healthy bees. The whole industry has pulled together to try and get a healthy bee industry back. As Randy pointed out in his article hives with high nosema ceranae spore counts produce half as much honey. A fact which brings every commercial beekeeper I speak with on board trying to control nosema ceranae. Only the best commercial beeks are left now and those beeks react quickly to new problems which they have to to survive in a tough business. Also I might add that a healthy hive has a tough time surviving the neonicotinoids but the neonicotinoids kill quickly a diseased and mite infested hive. bob **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2008 12:44:21 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Roni Subject: Spiders MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Should you leave spiders you find in the hive alone, or remove them? Do = spiders and bees live symbiotically, or are spiders harmful to bees? = Would spiders eat bee pests like the the small hive beetle or wax moths? Roni **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2008 09:14:04 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: randy oliver Subject: Re: Fumagilin-B In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit > >The question now is if 2 g. in a liter recommended for drench on the Canada label is a higher dose than when fed in 2 gallons of feed or the same. Hi again Bob, There are 21mg active ingredient per gram of Fumagilin-B. So in 2g/L, there would be 42mg a.i. per liter. Compare that to the 95g of active ingredient per gallon of heavy syrup when prepared by label (1 bottle in 100 gal). Higes found that 30mg a.i., fed 4x, weekly, in only 500ml (about 2 cups) of syrup completely eliminated N ceranae. However, when I drenched bees with the same amount, 4x, weekly, it did not. So apparently drenching may not get the dose into the bees' guts as well as feeding syrup, and a higher dose is required. Here is some recent information for the List: I've been corresponding with both Dr. Higes, and Antonio Pajuelo of CONSULTORES APÍCOLAS http://www.pajuelo.info/. These two researchers disagree as to the seriousness of N ceranae infections. Dr. Higes feels that colonies can handle moderate infections as long as the queen is able to sustain egglaying to offset the continued premature death of infected foragers. Collapse may not occur for months, or maybe more than a year after the colony becomes infected. A new young queen, or supersedure queen, may give the colony a "second wind," but if the queen begins to fail, the colony will succumb. His recent studies have found that during this period of inapparent infection, that colonies may exhibit a 50-70% loss of honey production. On the other hand, Pajuelo feels that most of the Spanish collapses are caused by the drought in Spain. He cites three labs that do not find unusual mortality from N ceranae when colonies receive adequate nutrition. Pajuelo suggests that the Spanish Síndrome de Desaparición de Colmenas, SDC is caused by a combination of three factors: poor nutrition, in-hive miticides, and high varroa levels. So there you have it--clear answers from the experts, in complete opposition to each other! And yes, Bob, since so little is currently known about N ceranae, and with so much research being done, anything that anyone puts into print will likely be dated within weeks--this post included! Randy Oliver **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2008 11:47:54 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Eric Simms Subject: Bees, pesticides and sugar beet MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable "2. Imidacloprid is a systemic insecticide, meaning that it permeates every= cell of the plant, even if only used as a seed dressing. That means it WIL= L be present in the sugar, as processing does not affect it."=0A=0AThe abov= e=A0statement is not true.=A0 Refining sucrose sugar removes almost=A0any t= race of any substance other than sucrose sugar molecules.=A0 The bulk of th= e=A0impurities are removed=A0by the crystallization process, and subsequent= washings.=A0 The remaining impurities are bleached out and that would most= likely destroy or denature=A0nicatinoids.=A0 The black liquor molasses lef= t over from the refining process contains all of the other organic and non = organic impurities, while the sucrose sugar crystals hitting the dryer are = >99.9% pure sucrose sugar.=A0 There are few commercial processes as effecti= ve as the sugar refining process at removing impurities of almost any kind.= =0A=0AThe chief complaint about sucrose sugar is it's purity, and lack of a= ny residual nutrients or beneficial minerals.=A0 It is in fact, purely suga= r, far more so than honey.=0A=0AEric Simms, Chemical Engineer=0A=0A=0A = **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2008 11:09:42 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: randy oliver Subject: Re: Fumagilin-B In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline HI Bob, I haven't used inside feeders on my N ceranae-infested hives, so can't answer. But I've heard lots of reports of bees drowning in the feeders that support your observation. I also feel that your hypothesis about genetic resistance to N ceranae is accurate. In my limited testing, I find that some colonies remain free of the disease even though they are surrounded by sick colonies. To answer your question about finding time--my poor bee business has gotten hammered by me being distracted by research and writing. Also hit by foregoing most mite treatments for the last two years (and going on 6 years without synthetic chems)--that's why I'm using more Apiguard and Miteaway this year. But I greatly appreciate the financial support I have gotten from individuals and associations who have sent checks to help me continue my reporting and research! Indeed, those donations have allowed me to remain on the edge of solvency. I'm hoping for a good year in almonds this season--my numbers are up, and the bees look pretty good so far. I guess we'll see when the weather turns cold... Randy Oliver **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2008 15:32:50 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: T'N'T Apiaries Subject: Re: Fumagilin-B MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Bob Will likely comment on some of this later, but have to run. In the mean time, an instruction sheet using US measurements can be printed off the Medivet website. Click on Innovative products, then choose Fumagilin-B, then Product & usage directions (english only). Should get you the pdf you need. David Tharle Ardmore, AB > **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2008 08:34:55 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: Re: Fumagilin-B In-Reply-To: <3dcef4a10810061109v43e26f0bh38870a5490543225@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Randy, > To answer your question about finding time--my poor bee business has > gotten hammered by me being distracted by research and writing. Mine was also. Takes time to research articles. I could hammer out a typical ABJ or BC article about wintering bees or making splits etc. in a few hours but articles like my neonicotinoid article (ABJ April 2008) and the Australian update (December 2007 ABJ) took countless hours. The fuel alone traveling to North Dakota & back for the December article was over $500 plus I spent five days on the road. My editors at ABJ & BC are the same as yours and both have told me they value your articles and mine. This summer I put the bees first and the bees look the best in years. Maybe in the coming weeks I can finish a few articles. The "Moving bees in hot weather article" (ABJ) which you shared your experiences for only needs finishing touches. My article for BC on providing heat to Milk tanks only needs some pictures taken at a commercial operation in Nebraska. Also > hit by foregoing most mite treatments for the last two years (and > going on 6 years without synthetic chems)- I last used a hard chemical strip the year before API LIFE VAR came on the market. At the ABF convention in Savannah, Georgia I spoke to beeks on the experience as I believe I might have been one of the first to use. I believe the convention was in January 2002(?). After I quit using strips I changed all comb which had ever had coumaphos or fluvalinate used on and went to using Api Life Var ( first few years) then apigard or miteaway 2. After six years of using thymol or formic treatments I can say the beekeeper can control varroa with these products. Each has limitations which the beek needs to be aware ( which I have discussed on BEE-L over the last six years and a search with my name and the product should bring up my methods) . Also Randy has tested each except maybe api life var and his results are in his articles or at his website. Sincerely, Bob Harrison **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2008 13:03:57 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Brian Ames Subject: German Beekeeper: Guenter Friedmann Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit An interesting and refreshing contrast to our fixation on pollination , feed lot beekeeping and heavy colony management style in the USA. http://en.epochtimes.com/n2/science-technology/beekeeping-bee-colonies-natural-processes- respecting-nature-queen-bees-5194.html **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2008 14:32:30 -0400 Reply-To: bee-quick@bee-quick.com Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: James Fischer Subject: Re: Canadian Honey Council asking for $50 million MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Quit listening to the powers that be Never quit listening to anyone, especially to those who have credentials in science. Look hard at the motivation of anyone who demands that you ignore contrasting views. > start looking deeper at the locations of your losses. > The plants in your area. Only days ago on Sept 30, in the "Fructose vs sucrose" discussion, the cause of all problems was claimed to be "poison sugars" in HFCS. Now plants/pesticides are blamed. Both are presented as "cover-ups". Which is it? > Even from the U.S. we see visible patterns emerging. > My friends in Europe see patterns in Canada. Optical illusions and delusions. See this: http://tinyurl.com/4myeyf or http://www.cbc.ca/technology/story/2008/10/03/control-study.html "People often see patterns where none exist in an attempt to give structure and security to unpredictable situations, a new study on loss of control suggests. People turn to superstitions, rituals and conspiracy theories as a way to deal with complex or chaotic circumstances, according to the study, published in the journal 'Science'." > In the U.S. the powers that be do not want to take > on the chemical companies. EVERYONE is "taking on" the chemical companies, even when the actual data clearly points to the self-inflicted gunshot wound of beekeeper miticide misuse as the factor that swamps out the tiny trace levels of crop pesticides. The pesticide-bashing is a distraction from the real and tangible problems of invasive, exotic pathogens, pests, and predators that continue to waltz through our ports due to an utter lack of concern about biosecurity in international trade. To make matters worse, we have beekeepers openly advocating things like their use of "Taktic" as a miticide, and advocating the shipment of bees from overseas as a solution to the problem of invasive exotic bee diseases and pests from overseas. The disconnect is that the best way to import more diseases and pests is on live, uninspected bees of the sort promoted by these same beekeepers. > In Europe the hives keep crashing unless chemical > companies are reined in... Not in the view of those who regulate pesticides in Europe. (Read question here, click on "Answer" button to read the answer of the European Parliament): http://tinyurl.com/4tr56z or http://www.europarl.europa.eu/sides/getDoc.do?pubRef=-//EP//TEXT+WQ+E-2008-3 670+0+DOC+XML+V0//EN&language=EN > *If* you fund research into problems concerning chemicals make > sure those doing the research will be willing to follow the > evidence and not afraid to stand behind findings pointing in > the direction of chemical companies. Far too much speculation is done in the face of data that tends to exonerate the pesticides. > When certain chemicals are banned the situation improves. Specifically where? And for who? And which specific chemicals? Who, what, when, where, how? What has happened over and over is that the European "Precautionary Principle" is used to temporarily suspend use of specific chemicals, but things do NOT improve, so the suspensions are lifted. Yet people with agendas cite these uses of the "Precautionary Principle" as if they were "proof" of something, rather than what they are, which is a preemptive suspension, specifically taken in the ABSENCE of proof. (Why do you think they call it the "PRECAUTIONARY Principle", for Pete's sake?) > Do not let people tell you otherwise. No, of course not! Don't ever pay attention to new data, or consider findings that might challenge the preconceived notions of beekeepers. That might prompt one to think for oneself, and we can't have that, now can we? > Do not let the chemical companies blame misapplication > as the *sole cause* of problems. When one finds high levels of pesticide in pollen, how did it get there, if not from spraying blooms? Understand that the trace levels that might be carried to the pollen by the plant's metabolism are well-understood, and easy to measure. The EPA data often contains these tiny numbers. Pesticide kills do happen, and the good news is that the newer systemic pesticides reduce the incidence of pesticide kills. Why? Simple - if the grower does not spray it, the grower does not even have a chance to screw up. > Some even allowed while the bees are on the bloom. Aside from "Assail", which is old news by now, are there any others? I don't think so. > When beeks complain about a certain chemical the chemical > companies change the formula slightly and register under > a new name which is a smart tactic as causes problems for > beeks as then you have got 2 to many named products > to fight against instead of one. Please cite an example. The chemical companies aren't going to slog through the multi-year and multi-million-dollar-sort-of-expensive process of registering a new pesticide formulation with the EPA just to be able to avoid "beekeeper complaints". If we beekeepers had that sort of clout, it would be a very different world. > Those researching the bee die offs in Canada and the U.S. > ignore the facts about the areas and the crops being worked > being involved in bee problems. So all the researchers are stupid? Blind? Ignorant of the basic concept of correlation? Unaware of cause and effect? Every single one of them in the USA and Canada? Which is it? Again, we need specifics to back up the claims. > In the U.S. avoiding certain crops and areas using certain > chemicals is part of the key to survival. Partly correct. Avoiding certain CROPS could result in better "survival", but it is the low-protein pollen of the plant that is the root problem here, rather than the chemical use in the area. Drought makes for even worse pollen than normal, so weather is also a factor. It is a nutrition issue. > look at the areas hardest hit in Canada and oddly enough > they are the areas in Canada in which the chemicals I am > always talking about are used the most. No surprise - the areas were agriculture is most prevalent is where the most bees are kept and deployed, so these are the areas that are "hit hardest". By the same logic, one can note that beekeepers west of the Mississippi are "harder hit" than those East of the Mississippi in the USA. The reason is simple, operations are hundreds of times bigger West of the Mississippi, so they have more hives to examine. **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2008 15:17:08 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Maryam Henein Subject: bee footage and photos Comments: cc: g@georgelangworthy.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear Beekeepers, Hive Mentality Films is looking for old footage of beekeeping to = establish the changes in the industry over the years. We'd also like any = black and white pictures. We have a small budget for this. I thought I'd = ask the list. If anyone is interested please contact me at maryam@vanishingbees.com We are currently cutting a version to submit to Sundance.=20 thank you, -- (\ {:|}{|||}-- =20 (/=20 Maryam Henein Writer/Producer/All-around Raconteur www.vanishingbees.com http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DzXircJ_eJ1Y (maryam amid thousands and thousands of bees) Sacramento Highlights http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DPqotV9pOyBQ http://ossmedicinejewelry.etsy.com=20 (Animal Medicine Jewelry/place link in browser) **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2008 04:48:50 +0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Juanse Barros Subject: NZ News MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline An Ashburton beekeeper has taken a swipe at the Ashburton District Council for what he describes as 'poor performance' by some of its staff. Roger Bray has taken issue with staff over 'inappropriate' use of chemicals causing bee deaths. The problem has been going on for a number of years and no-one at council appears willing to listen, Mr Bray said. http://www.ashburtonguardian.co.nz/index.asp?articleid=12076 Commercial beekeepers are warning that the arrival of the varroa mite and the increase in grapes, which self pollinate, will cause problems in Marlborough. National Beekeepers Association chief executive Jim Edwards said the establishment of varroa mite meant the majority of feral bee hives in the North Island had disappeared and he expected a similar scenario in the South Island. "You can expect the impact to become more apparent over the coming months." http://www.stuff.co.nz/marlboroughexpress/4713720a6563.html Fears that the devastating bee disease Colony Collapse Disorder has arrived in Wairarapa has prompted a leading beekeeper to make an appeal to farmers using sprays. http://tinyurl.com/3g5rzx -- Juanse Barros J. APIZUR S.A. Carrera 695 Gorbea - CHILE +56-45-271693 08-3613310 http://apiaraucania.blogspot.com/ juanseapi@gmail.com **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** From MAILER-DAEMON Sat Feb 28 11:13:48 2009 Return-Path: <> X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.8 (2007-02-13) on industrial X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-86.9 required=2.4 tests=ADVANCE_FEE_1,AWL, MAILTO_TO_SPAM_ADDR,SPF_HELO_PASS,USER_IN_WHITELIST autolearn=disabled version=3.1.8 X-Original-To: adamf@IBIBLIO.ORG Delivered-To: adamf@IBIBLIO.ORG Received: from listserv.albany.edu (unknown [169.226.1.24]) by metalab.unc.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8D345490A8 for ; Sat, 28 Feb 2009 11:03:41 -0500 (EST) Received: from listserv.albany.edu (listserv.albany.edu [169.226.1.24]) by listserv.albany.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id n1SG3YXH017258 for ; Sat, 28 Feb 2009 11:03:41 -0500 (EST) Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2009 11:03:35 -0500 From: "University at Albany LISTSERV Server (14.5)" Subject: File: "BEE-L LOG0810A" To: adamf@IBIBLIO.ORG Message-ID: Content-Length: 95559 Lines: 2162 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2008 20:59:31 -0700 Reply-To: mws1112004@yahoo.com Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Mike Stoops Subject: Re: Homeowners insurance and bees In-Reply-To: <0514D3C4-7B52-4582-B790-D3D3FDDB3D7B@warwick.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable There is the "out" in the wording.=A0 I'm sure that the hive was not "homem= ade" but was at least cut and bought from a bee supply house.=A0=A0 Mike in= LA=A0 thinking wording is tricky. --- On Tue, 9/30/08, Nicholas Doumanoff wrotereceived= notice from their homeowners insurance that they are =20 being dropped due to a "home made bee-hive" on the property. =20 =0A=0A=0A **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2008 07:32:42 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: =?windows-1252?Q?Mike_Bassett?= Subject: Re: Homeowners insurance and bees Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit on Tue, 9/30/08, Nicholas Doumanoff wrotereceived notice from their homeowners insurance that they are >being dropped due to a "home made bee-hive" on the property. when I first started beekeeping long time ago, my wife worked for our insurance company. Had her check if we were covered for the bees on the property. You would be amazed at what you are not covered for including bees. If its not specificly mentioned in the policy they don't or will not cover you. I was the first person in town back then that got an inspection of my wood stove, insurance would not cover if not inspected, but they don't tell you that. when I still had bees in Mass and Conn. I had been having to move the hives do to insurance companies threating do drop the home owner's insurance if the bees remained. moving to N.Y. trying to get insurance, contacted Geico, in the process of getting insurance, asked about bees on the property, they hung up on me. called back and explained no bees on property, they said they would do random checks and drop up if we had bees. And I have a bee insurance policy on the bees. easiest method I found was to join Farm bureau and get there insurance. mike syracuse **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2008 08:38:18 -0400 Reply-To: lloyd@rossrounds.com Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Lloyd Spear Subject: Homeowners insurance and bees MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Mike, in Syracuse, is right. For those keeping hives in suburbia, the only way out of this dilemma is to get your insurance through Farm Family. Farm Family was formerly part of Agway. When Agway went bankrupt, Farm Family was spun off as a separate company. They used to require you belong to Farm Bureau to get a policy. While that requirement has been dropped, Farm Bureau members get a large enough discount from Farm Family that it pays for the Bureau membership! For those keeping hives in farm country the job is a lot easier. Just go to any agent selling casualty insurance to farmers. They know the insurers who understand farm risks and will be glad to insure beekeepers. Lloyd -- Lloyd Spear Owner Ross Rounds, Inc. Manufacture of equipment for round comb honey sections, Sundance Pollen Traps, and producer of Sundance custom labels. Contact your dealer or www.RossRounds.com **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2008 12:53:15 GMT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "waldig@netzero.com" Subject: Re: Honeybees can count Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit >>It might be interesting next year to split up your rows into blocks of 4 with a distinctive marker between each block... It would be interesting to try this and other hive orientation patterns that are said to minimize drifting. Here in suburbia though, I try to keep tight hive clusters to increase the distance to neightbors' property lines. Transposing and placing strongest hives in worst spots does a good job of equalizing populations that still bring in the honey. Purely anecdotal on my part but I believe that 3 deep/ unlimited broodnests lessen drifting. Perhaps because the larger bee populations emit more unique queen scent from each hive making it easier for the returning forager to find their true home? Anyone else have thoughts on this? Waldemar **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2008 13:11:55 GMT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "waldig@netzero.com" Subject: Re: Hives visible on Google maps Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit >>in seach of Ulmo trees (Eucriptia cordifolia) probably one of the best honey around the world... What is the hardiness of Ulmo trees? Anyone know if they are available in North America? Waldemar **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2008 10:10:37 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Jerry Bromenshenk Subject: Re: Honeybees can count MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit With 10 years of data from hive mounted counters on as many as 50 colonies of bees, we've documented lots about hive placement and bee flight. I know and respect Srini and his work in Australia. He's a good colleague, does some amazing work. **************Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial challenges? Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and calculators. (http://www.walletpop.com/?NCID=emlcntuswall00000001) **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2008 10:22:02 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Jerry Bromenshenk Subject: Re: Honeybees can count MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit 2nd try, sorry about the incomplete message. My laptop has a touch pad. I have to detune touch pads, radiate too much heat from my hands. Merely waving my hands over the pad sometimes triggers it. Anyway, Srini does some great research. However, his work on bee distance clocking (like a speedometer) doesn't necessarily mean that they know that they are in the 4th hive from the left. We did that test in the early 80s. 3 colonies on a big, grassy lawn, moved a short distance forward and to the left. I expected that the returning bees wouldn't notice any chance. Yet, one hive filled with bees, the other two colonies had only the queen and the youngest bees. The bees went in to the hive closest to the original left/right position of the colonies before they were moved - and these colonies had only been in place on the open lawn for 24 hrs. So, they didn't count, did not know that their hive was the one on the left, in the middle, or on the right. They keyed on the GPS position, on an unmarked lawn! Now, our counters tell us some interesting things about bee forage flights and position. We see some drift along lines of hives, with the end (downwind) one tending to pick up bees. We see other colonies, regardless of position, that always lose bees (percent return is always lower than normal - or the average for the beeyard). Other colonies always pick up bees (percent return exceeds 100%). This happens day after day. Which colonies lose bees, which pick up bees, has little to do with position. Move these hives to another beeyard, the same return pattern persists. Finally, colonies facing the sun get up and start working 30 minutes to an hour earlier than those facing away from the sun. All colonies return home and suspend work about the same time - so the bees that sleep in don't make up for the lost time. Jerry **************Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial challenges? Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and calculators. (http://www.walletpop.com/?NCID=emlcntuswall00000001) **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2008 10:37:16 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Kirk_Jones?= Subject: bear fences...tweaks on fencing for Randy Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi all, Thanks Randy for sharing your fencing techniques. I also like the pin-locks. But....I put the wire on the outside and use the pin-lock wire holders for the outside corners. This is working and save valuable time for me. The pin-lock wire holders will keep the wire from grounding around the outside corner. Another tweak is to put the entrance tee posts with the flat end in towards the entrance and use the pin-lock wire holders to terminate the wire run without a lot of extra work. The wire will wrap around without grounding. Saves more time. I like the Intellirope from Premier One(maybe other suppliers) for the top strand to prevent deer and snowmobilers from hitting it. It has a good life span. Nice for the gate too. http://www.premier1supplies.com/detail.php?prod_id=606&cat_id=41 Kirk Jones www.sleepingbearfarms.com **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2008 12:50:05 -0400 Reply-To: bee-quick@bee-quick.com Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: James Fischer Subject: Nissan sensor modeled on bee eyes for auto crash avoidance MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The only drawback is that passengers are driven to distraction by the incessant buzzing noise. http://tinyurl.com/4wddwr or http://www.japantoday.com/category/technology/view/nissan-develops-crash-avo idance-robotic-car **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2008 15:10:54 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: James Plaisted Subject: Re: Bear Question In-Reply-To: <3dcef4a10809301751p79f9a21ak3f295407d5db9e4a@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Randy =20 One word of caution on putting your wire to the inside of your posts=2C a s= mart bear will pull your post out without ever getting shocked. Haven't ha= d it happen yet=2C but have heard of it happening to others. Also=2C wires= should go to the top of the post for same reason. =20 =20 Jim =20 http://www.northernqueens.com/ _________________________________________________________________ See how Windows connects the people=2C information=2C and fun that are part= of your life. http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/msnnkwxp1020093175mrt/direct/01/= **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2008 01:58:52 +0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Juanse Barros Subject: Eucryphia cordifolia = Ulmo MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline http://tinyurl.com/4h9nx4 http://tinyurl.com/4rbc7s Its wood is very apreciated for furniture and firewood. It had been heavily logged. It is endemic of southern Chile (and a tinybit of Argentina in the border of Chile, Nahuelhuapi area). It is a relative of Leatherwood of Tasmania (Eucryphia *lucida). Ulmo honey taste and aroma as that of Aniseed, Jasmine, Vanilla and Cloves with a touch of Tea and Caramel. It has a perfect buttery creamy texture and light cream color (pfund 50 mm) that could be paired with mild cheese. **Ulmo honey was 4 times more effective than the Manuka Honey at inhibiting the growth and development of Staphylococcus aureus and two times better for Escherichia coli. *You can find a sample of it hereIt is not my production, but Ulmo is Ulmo (and it is chilean). * *-- Juanse Barros J. APIZUR S.A. Carrera 695 Gorbea - CHILE +56-45-271693 08-3613310 http://apiaraucania.blogspot.com/ juanseapi@gmail.com **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2008 20:54:14 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Peter_de_Bruyn_Kops?= Subject: Re: bear fences...tweaks on fencing for Randy Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit > Kirk Jones wrote: >I also like the pin-locks. But....I put the wire on the outside and use the >pin-lock wire holders for the outside corners. I pound in steel posts at corners, then slip PVC pipe over posts. Then I wrap Premier Intellirope tightly around the outside so I do not need any pin locks, hooks or other wire holders. When I have to move hives in and out of the enclosure (via hand truck), I slide the Intellirope down the posts to ground level, wheel the hives in, then slide the rope back up the posts. **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2008 20:41:09 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: Re: Honeybees can count In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello Jerry & All, Jerry said: Yet, one hive filled with bees, the other two > colonies had only the queen and the youngest bees. I am glad to see the above. One *hypothesis* I put forth at the Austin ABF convention as to a *possible explanation* for CCD ( in the first days) was that the bees became disorinted and returned to the wrong hive. The above hive would contain all the brood but no adult bees. > Which colonies lose bees, which pick up bees, has little to do with > position. Move these hives to another beeyard, the same return pattern > persists. I have been watching this phenomono my entire time keeping bees. In commercial beekeeping you strive to keep the whole yard at exactly the same strength so when one needs a super all the others do also. The most common way to accomplish this is to "trash the Yard" . In other words make all hives even in brood/bees. Once done for the first week or two the project seems a success and then the phenomonon Jerry speaks of takes over and bees start moving to other hives creating imbalance. I have found that keeping young queens helps with the problem. Swarming can be the result. At times hobby beeks think the hive gaining all the bees is because of a prolific queen ( which is a possible hypothesis but not always the reason for the quick rise in hive numbers) These hives usually need some extra swarm controls. > Finally, colonies facing the sun get up and start working 30 minutes to an > hour earlier than those facing away from the sun. Some races fly earlier also. The Australian bees I run fly an hour earlier than my other bees. All colonies return home > and suspend work about the same time - I agree! We have been cleaning up the honey processing area and all the races in the home yard have been trying to provide help ( rob) . When sunset comes they all disappear at almost exactly the same time. My Italians /Australians and Russians are easy for me to tell apart. All up robbing although they have a full feeder in the hive. My new area is set up so I can pick up all but one piece of equipment with my forklift and sit outside. The bees clean up nicely. I then rinse with hot water/ power wash , wash with clorox water and put away for next season. For years I fought trying to clean around fixed equipment. I recommend the method to all. bob **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2008 22:08:40 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: ALDEN MARSHALL Subject: Re: Homeowners insurance and bees MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=Windows-1252; reply-type=original Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Bassett" To: Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2008 7:32 AM Subject: Re: [BEE-L] Homeowners insurance and bees > > easiest method I found was to join Farm bureau and get there insurance. > > mike syracuse > > No longer have to be FB member. Contact Farm Family Ins. Co. Farm Bureau can refer you to local rep. Alden Marshall Hudson, NH **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2008 11:32:27 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Jerry Bromenshenk Subject: Re: Honeybees can count MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Only problem with the 'drifting bees' in terms of CCD - we don't get an influx of bees into other colonies, not in the same yard, nor any nearby yards. I've watched thousands of colonies in holding areas decline, none gained dramatically, yet millions of bees disappeared. As per equalizing and a few weeks later, the colonies are back to original status - our counters confirms - colonies that collect bees continue to do so, regardless of whether you steal frames. Colonies of bees that lose bees continue to do so, even if you add frames of brood, etc. Like Bob, I suspect it may be queen-related, possibly pheromone. Jerry **************Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial challenges? Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and calculators. (http://www.walletpop.com/?NCID=emlcntuswall00000001) **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2008 13:41:21 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: =?windows-1252?Q?Mike_Bassett?= Subject: new york bill a01999 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I heard about this on the news the other day, but it didn't mention new labling for honey but a look at the version of the bill that I found includes honey? but I can't tell if has passed or not? Says it starts Oct 1. anybody know anything about it? http://assembly.state.ny.us/leg/?bn=A01999&sh=t thanks mike syracuse **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2008 18:54:34 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "Peter L. Borst" Subject: Potential shift of small hive beetle to bumblebees MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Neumann, P., Hoffmann, D., Pettis, J.S. 2008. Potential host shift of the small hive beetle (Aethina tumida Murray) to bumblebee colonies (Bombus impatiens Cresson). Insectes Sociaux. 55:153-162. Interpretive Summary: > Honey bee colonies are infested by a wide variety of pests and diseases. One such pest is the small hive beetle which was recently introduced into the U.S. from Africa. Because this beetle feeds on pollen and honey it has the potential to infest other types of bee colonies such as bumblebees. We found that small hive beetles are as attracted to bumblebee colonies as they are to honey bee colonies but that bumblebees do exhibit some behaviors that will help defend against beetles invading their hives. Thus small hive beetles could infest and damage bumblebee colonies in nature. Field surveys are necessary to evaluate the actual infestation status of wild social bee colonies. **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2008 20:05:53 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Lionel Evans Subject: Hive beetles MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Has anyone had any trouble with hive beetles? I have had a couple of hives to get weak, (swarmed and did not raise a = queen), that were over come by beetles. What is the most effective and best treatment to get rid of these pests? North Alabama has a real infestation. Strong hives can keep control, but = what is going to happen when the bees cluster?=20 Lionel North AL. **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2008 18:51:11 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Mike McDonald Subject: Re: new york bill a01999 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit It appears that the General Assembly passed this bill unanimously. It was then sent to the Senate, where it was sent to committee last February. It's still in committee. The bill died in committee once and looks like it may do so again. Personally, I favor Country of Origin labeling for honey, as well as other products. A friend in the cattle industry has been working hard to make this happen for nearly a decade. In the end, Country of Origin labeling can only help U.S. honey producers. Mike McDonald **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2008 12:48:50 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Mike Rossander Subject: Re: new york bill a01999 In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable According to the legislative history (http://assembly.state.ny.us/leg/?bn= =3DA01999, http://assembly.state.ny.us/leg/?bn=3DS07204=A0and http://assemb= ly.state.ny.us/leg/?bn=3DS06425), the bill passed the NY Assembly and was p= assed over to the NY Senate where it was sent to their Consumer Protection = committee.=A0 It doesn't look like any action has been taken since mid-Marc= h.=A0 Since the legislative process has not been finished, it can't be in e= ffect (regardless of the planned start date of 1 Oct). =A0 In related NY law, it already is illegal for anyone to remove or conceal a = mark of origin. =A0(General Business Statute Article 26 =A7=A0 392-c)=A0 Th= at's the only other reference I could find to origin marking.=A0 So you can= label your honey and the retailer can't obscure or deface it but it doesn'= t look like NY law does anything yet to force the other guy to label. Mike Rossander=0A=0A=0A **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 Oct 2008 06:39:53 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Michael Palmer Subject: Re: new york bill a01999 In-Reply-To: <1222991472.27114.5.camel@Cuthbert> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed > In the end, Country of Origin >labeling can only help U.S. honey producers. I agree, as long as they put it right up there next to the "USDA Grade A" Mike **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 Oct 2008 22:49:04 -0400 Reply-To: bee-quick@bee-quick.com Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: James Fischer Subject: Re: new york bill a01999 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > In the end, Country of Origin labeling > can only help U.S. honey producers. We can do better. I'm I strong supporter of COUNTY or organ labeling. Not just country, but county. "Local" is all the rage these days, so don't be afraid to find those "localvores", and charge them the same premium that everyone else charges for "local" food. **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 4 Oct 2008 05:31:26 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: C Hooper Subject: Bee Venom Therapy Boosts Traditional Rheumatoid Arthritis Medications Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Bee Venom Therapy Boosts Traditional Rheumatoid Arthritis Medications Clinical Randomized Study of Bee-Sting Therapy for Rheumatoid Arthritis Zhen Ci Yan Jiu, 2008 Jun;33(3):197-200 Objective: To observe the clinical effect of bee-sting (venom) therapy in the treatment of rheumatoid arthritis (RA)… Conclusion: Combined application of bee-venom therapy and medication is superior to simple use of medication in relieving RA, and when bee-sting therapy used, the commonly-taken doses of western medicines may be reduced, and the relapse rate gets lower. www.ApitherapyNews.com - The Internet's Best Source of Information About the Medicinal Use of Bee Products **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 4 Oct 2008 11:32:54 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "Peter L. Borst" Subject: Canadian Honey Council asking for $50 million MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline The Canadian Honey Council is asking for $50 million for disaster relief from the government after another year of bee losses across the country. In Canada, the average loss of hives was 33 per cent last year. Some areas, like Peace River in Alberta and Vancouver, lost 70 per cent of hives this past winter. President of the honey council and owner of Planet Bee in Vernon, Ed Nowek, wants solutions. "If you can imagine someone losing 70 per cent of their livelihood," said Nowek, "it's not just the loss of the bees, but also the income of those bees. Then the cost of replacing them, which can be insurmountable for some people if you don't have bees to generate the income." Last year Planet Bee had losses of more than 50 per cent, and this year his losses were 15 per cent. "There has been two years now of way over average losses," he said. It was a similar story at Stawn's Honey. They lost 25 per cent this year, which is better than half their population like in 2007, but the trend still leaves part-owner Kristy Anderson worried. "We didn't lose as much, but still have losses," said Anderson, "but that is normal for everyone now." Anderson knows a beekeeper who had 500 hives, and lost everything this year. She has seen beekeepers selling their businesses because of losses, and it takes constant monitoring and money to keep their bees healthy. "People are just getting discouraged, and many of the people in this business are older and it is really hard work to keep up," she said. "We have a project called Hive Health that we want government funding for," said Nowek. "We need government help bad, so in addition to our $50 million disaster relief, we are asking for $10 million over five years to fund this Hive Health initiative." Source: vernonmorningstar.com **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 4 Oct 2008 11:42:07 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "Peter L. Borst" Subject: Short educational film on bee biology MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Short educational film on bee biology http://www.sundancechannel.com/videos/230320958 -- Pete **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 5 Oct 2008 00:22:53 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: Re: Canadian Honey Council asking for $50 million In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > The Canadian Honey Council is asking for $50 million for disaster > relief from the government after another year of bee losses across the > country. Open letter to the Canada beeks on the list: The solution lies with the beekeepers. Quit listening to the powers that be and start looking deeper at the locations of your losses. The plants in your area. Even from the U.S. we see visible patterns emerging. My friends in Europe see patterns in Canada. In the U.S. the powers that be do not want to take on the chemical companies. When you are keeping the normal bee problems under control and still seeing losses then you need to look elsewhere for the problem. simple. At first beekeepers around the world bought into the idea they *might* be the problem. Always the first line of defense by chemical giants. Then those beeks started keeping better control on mites and nosema but the hives keep dying. No new chemical smoking gun will be found in my opinion. In my opinion and many of my fellow beeks throwing money at the problem is not going to solve the current die offs. Sure it will help rebuild but what about the next time. In Europe the hives keep crashing unless chemical companies are reined in ( which I do not believe will ever happen in Canada or the U.S.) *If* you fund research into problems concerning chemicals make sure those doing the research will be willing to follow the evidence and not afraid to stand behind findings pointing in the direction of chemical companies. When certain chemicals are banned the situation improves. Do not let people tell you otherwise. Do not let the chemical companies blame misapplication as the *sole cause* of problems. The damage to bees from the chemical companies is hard to detect. Hard to prove. Changes are needed in your operations. New chemicals are being registered for crops pollinated or worked by bees. Some even allowed while the bees are on the bloom. When beeks complain about a certain chemical the chemical companies change the formula slightly and register under a new name which is a smart tactic as causes problems for beeks as then you have got 2 to many named products to fight against instead of one. A new tactic which I have never seen used before by chemical companies. The reason why beeks are taking the fight to the EPA. Progress is being made to stop the above process. Registration is getting harder. Those researching the bee die offs in Canada and the U.S. ignore the facts about the areas and the crops being worked being involved in bee problems. In the U.S. avoiding certain crops and areas using certain chemicals is part of the key to survival. True hive health is essential but look at the areas hardest hit in Canada and oddly enough they are the areas in Canada in which the chemicals I am always talking about are used the most. 1. make a map of the areas hardest hit in Canada. 2. check with your agriculture people to see what chemicals etc. are being used. If you are like the U.S. beeks which have looked at your problems you will see a pattern. I think your Ag people might be right when they say CCD is not the problem. bob **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 5 Oct 2008 11:01:45 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: Fumagilin-B In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello All, Months ago when I first brought attention on BEE-L to beeks using Fumagilin as a drench ( myself for months) and felt the uproar from my critics as to the practice. Against label was the cry. Only when the actual label was posted did they quickly become silent. I only wonder if those people which caused the stir back then about labels even read the label but lets move on. Now that we all know the label DOES include using fumidil as a drench and in a much higher dose ( as the old method used with fumidil fed in two gallons of syrup) as as often as needed in severe cases I want now to discuss the label. >From the Medivat label: quote: "Heavily infested colonies that will no longer take syrup may be sprayed repeatedly, directly on the bees, frame by frame with 1.1 sugar syrup containing 2 G. of fumidil per litre of syrup" A rough estimate figures the above over 10 times the old label. Repeatedly? Some say the process needs done around 4 times at regular intervals. Now I have been running experiments for months and can sare my observations as well as Randy Oliver has been running experiments also. Randy has shared unpublished information to help me and I have done the same. How are others appliying the drench ( tools) and what are they seeing? What levels are effective with bees not taking syrup with high levels of nosema ceranae? According to looking at the old fumidil label from a decade ago the rates for mixing fumigilin B has increased. The new label is in litres and in the U.S. beeks are most familiar with gallon measures so I wonder if those feeding are still using the old measure which for commercial beeks was to drop one 9.5 gram bottle split between 2 fifty five gallon drums of syrup and feed for winter. question: Is the new Medvet fumigilin-B not as strong as the old fumidl or is nosema ( both) getting harder to control with the Medvet version? >From Medvet label for fall treatment: 7-8 litres for each 2 chamber colony ( approx. 30,000 bees) 4 litres for each 1 chamber colony (approx. 18,000 bees) 1 litre for each 5 frame colony (approx. 12,000 bees) Am I understanding wrong or is 7-8 litres per each 2 chamber hive a hell of a lot higher amount of mix than the old 2 gallons of fumidlil mix we fed for years? I am speaking to a large group of Kansas beeks next week so want to be sure what I tell and recommend as to per label and correct. >From the Medvet label water +Sugar = syrup + Fumigilin-B 165 L 330 KG 380L. 454 G. 35L 69 KG 80L 96G. 8.7L 17 KG 20L 24G. 1.8L 3.6KG 4L 5G. At the meeting I need to be able to talk in gallons as easier to explain to U.S. beekeepers. I could convert the above myself but need to get out the door as today is another work day until seasons end. Could those on the list (with time on their hands) break down the above from litres and KG into gallons & pounds and tell me if ( as suspect) that the label now recommends feeding the fall fumidil in more that 2 gallons of syrup per hive if a normal strength hive in 2 deeps as is common in our area and in the northern half of the U.S. comments? Thanks for your help. I suspect many beeks on the list are done for the year. I am not so ask your help. Busy time of year. Sincerely, Bob Harrison **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 5 Oct 2008 21:10:58 -0300 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Peter Dillon Subject: Re: Fumagilin-B In-Reply-To: <23022F2534D646DAB61F75533D2FA530@bobPC> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Bob, I presume that you are referring to US gallons rather than Imperial gallons! Without wanting to stir up a hornets nest - I cannot understand why individuals still work in non metric units. Dollars and cents seem to have been accepted as a going concern. Peter **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 5 Oct 2008 20:50:37 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Darrell Subject: Re: Fumagilin-B In-Reply-To: <23022F2534D646DAB61F75533D2FA530@bobPC> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v753) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On 5-Oct-08, at 12:01 PM, Bob Harrison wrote: > > Am I understanding wrong or is 7-8 litres per each 2 chamber hive a > hell of > a lot higher amount of mix than the old 2 gallons of fumidlil mix > we fed for > years? > Hi Bob and all 1 US gallon = 3.78 litres 2 US gallons = 7.56 litres(pretty close to 7-8) 1 kg = 2.2 lb Bob Darrell Caledon Ontario Canada 44N80W **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 5 Oct 2008 17:40:09 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: randy oliver Subject: Re: Fumagilin-B In-Reply-To: <23022F2534D646DAB61F75533D2FA530@bobPC> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline HI Bob, A liter is slightly more than a quart, so 7-8 liters is in the 2 gallon range. The amount of syrup is not as important as the amount of active ingredient given to the colony. As far as I know, Fumagilin-B is the same as Fumidil-B except that it dissolves easier. Nosema ceranae apparently may require a slightly higher dose than N apis. When drenched, it apparently requires about 25% more a.i. than the in-syrup dose recommended for N apis. Commercial beekeepers are having success drenching with 12oz of of medicated syrup made by dissolving 1 large (454g) bottle of Fumagilin-B into 7 gallons of 1:1 syrup. (Or 8oz, made with 1 bottle in 5 gal). I have extensive articles coming out in ABJ and Bee Culture, and will post to my website within days. Randy **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 5 Oct 2008 21:42:40 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: Re: Fumagilin-B In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="UTF-8"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >Hmm. If you are going to make recommendations on the use of drugs in syrup you might want to take the trouble to learn how to convert liters and gallons. That's what I was asking PB. Did you convert the Canada info for me? Not to worry as a list member did the complete conversion for my talk except for the drench which I will work out as soon as I finish this post. I have had most my questions answered off list. The question now is if 2 g. in a liter recommended for drench on the Canada label is a higher dose than when fed in 2 gallons of feed or the same. label in gallons is: one 9.5 bottle (454 G.) in 44 gallons of 1-1 syrup. However the way I mix is by placing the fumidil in approx 88 gallons of syrup ( advice Mid Con) but some fed the 44 gallon and follow with a 44 gallon of plain `1-1 syrup. I now drench only as cheaper with better results. My talk is Oct. 6th. at 7PM in Lawrence, Kansas at the library. The meeting is the meeting of the Northeast Kansas Beekeepers. I rarely give talks and have turned down talks all over the country but close friends twisted my arm. Sincerely, Bob Harrison Still using gallon & pound measures. Not familiar with liters and Imperial gallons unless a calculator is handy. Ps. Thanks to Randy Oliver, Kim Flottum and Nick Behrens for their informative emails. Randy Oliver's upcoming Bee Culture article ( Nosema ceranae -Not your fathers nosema) is most informative and I thank Randy for sending. The news from Kim Flottum is shocking concerning the length of time nosema ceranae has been in the U.S. but will let Kim Flottum break the news in his next column in Bee Culture. Beekeeping knowledge is changing fast concerning nosema ceranae. According to the facts Kim Flottum shared and after reading Randys next article one part of Randys article is dated already concerning the amount of time nosema ceranae has been in the U.S. I also received an email from Kevin Hackett ( USDA-ARS Senior National Program leader) saying the Tucson Bee Lab is working hard to find the answers to my questions about *why* bees live half as long when fed HFCS as compared to sucrose. Kevin says he hopes to have reliable results within the next few months. **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 5 Oct 2008 20:41:25 -0700 Reply-To: gfcg7312003@yahoo.com Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Grant Gillard Subject: Re: Homeowners insurance and bees In-Reply-To: <0514D3C4-7B52-4582-B790-D3D3FDDB3D7B@warwick.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable As my apiaries grew, I inquired about liability insurance.=A0 My homeower's= agent said, "No way!" but he was kind enough to hook me up with a business= insurance guy who shopped the market, found me insurance and wrote the pol= icy. =A0 I checked with my local Farm Bureau and they treated me like a leper.=A0 I = even quoted (from other beekeepers who used Farm Bureau) the exact kind of = coverage other beekeepers were buying.=A0 I'd probably have better luck ins= uring a nuclear bomb manufacturing plant. =A0 I'd also make more money! =A0 Grant Jackson, MO =A0 =A0=0A=0A=0A **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2008 04:14:14 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Chris Slade Subject: Re: Fumagilin-B MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 06/10/2008 00:10:50 GMT Standard Time, busybeeacres@HUGHES.NET writes: A rough estimate figures the above over 10 times the old label. Repeatedly? So are we seeing resistance arising in Nosema as it does with everything else that is hit with the same treatment time after time? Chris **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2008 08:47:51 -0400 Reply-To: lloyd@rossrounds.com Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Lloyd Spear Subject: Metrics vrs English measurements MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Peter said "Without wanting to stir up a hornets nest - I cannot understand why individuals still work in non metric units. Dollars and cents seem to have been accepted as a going concern." In the early 70's, when I was a part of a multinational manufacturing company, the US corporate world was well on its way to metrics and we were enthuasiastic. However, it was clear that little real progress would be make without a congressional mandate. That was also going well, with the then President's support expressed as 'keeping America competitive in a changing world'. But there came a day in the House when a Democrat (I think it was Ted Kennedy) got up on the floor and said (approximately) 'why are we discussing this'? 'We have the strongest economy in the world, but we are talking about retraining and reeducating 150 million people presently communicating very well using inches, feet, pounds, ounces, bushels, and pecks.' 'It seems the only ones who want this change, and who will benefit, is Corporate America, and why should 150 million of us accomodate those few?" That populist speech shut down the discussions...to this very day. It seems clear that to some we should not consider metrics until such time as our nation is destitute. Remember...elections are near. Lloyd **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2008 06:49:27 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: bman140 Subject: Re: Fumagilin-B In-Reply-To: <48E95792.70402@rogers.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =A0Peter Dillon wrote: I cannot understand why=20 individuals still work in non metric units. =A0 =A0It could be because that's the way we're taught to so things. I've never= dealt with or saw so many people work with metric units until I started be= ekeeping. Ed=0A=0A=0A **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2008 10:28:43 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Peter_de_Bruyn_Kops?= Subject: Re: Fumagilin-B Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Chris Slade wrote: >So are we seeing resistance arising in Nosema as it does with everything >else that is hit with the same treatment time after time? We are comparing Fumidil made by one company in one decade with Fumigilin made by a different company in the present decade. I'm not prepared to assume without strong evidence that the concentration of those two products is equivalent. On top of that, it seems the dosage today is aimed at N. Ceranae and the dosage years ago was aimed at N. apis. **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2008 12:05:49 UT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Phil CHandler Subject: Bees, pesticides and sugar beet Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: binary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Dear Beekeeper, I recently circulated a warning about possible Imidacloprid contamination in sugar beet, which many beekeepers feed to their bees. Since this has caused some discussion, I thought you may like to hear some facts that I discovered while checking the original story. 1. Imidacloprid is a neonicotinoid pesticide (i.e. similar in chemical structure to nicotine) now routinely used as a seed dressing on sugar beet - for up to two years in the UK, considerably longer in the USA and elsewhere. 2. Imidacloprid is a systemic insecticide, meaning that it permeates every cell of the plant, even if only used as a seed dressing. That means it WILL be present in the sugar, as processing does not affect it. 3. Imidacloprid is a powerful neurotoxin, lethal to bees in doses as small as five parts per billion, and has serious sub-lethal effects - including disorientation - at much lower doses. To put that in context, if you took ONE THOUSAND METRIC TONNES of 1:1 syrup made with beet sugar, and stirred in just ONE TEASPOONFUL of Imidacloprid, you would have a mixture capable of killing bees. Please read that last sentence again and think about it. 4. Imidacloprid is persistent in plant cells and in the soil (half-life in soil under aerobic conditions of up to 997 days), where it kills ALL insects - including beneficial ones - and it accumulates, season on season, until it reaches a 'stable' level, assumed by some authorities to be something like 10 parts per billion. It is also likely to contaminate ground water. 5. The US 'Environmental Protection Agency' has approved permitted levels of Imidacloprid in sugar beet of 0.05 parts per million - that is at least TEN TIMES the lethal dose for bees. Do you still think it is safe to feed sugar beet syrup to your bees? And where is the British Bee Keepers Association in all this? Still taking money from Bayer in return for endorsing some of their pesticides (not, so far, including neonicotinoids) as 'Bee Friendly'. Has the BBKA come out with a statement condemning the use of Imidacloprid, or the closely related Clothianidin, which killed nearly half a billion bees in Germany in May this year? Have they ever issued a statement supporting the German and French beekeepers' call for a ban on neonicotinoids? Has the BBKA ever criticised ANY of Bayer's products? All I have seen is a series of half-hearted, limp statements that defend the status quo. However, please do not imagine that I am 'anti-BBKA'. I want the BBKA to be a strong campaigning body on behalf of bees and beekeepers, not a puppet of Bayer's marketing department. They should be free and independent of all commercial interests and should represent beekeepers, NOT chemical corporations that have no interest in the health of bees, other than the profit they may make from selling medications like Bayvarol (that ultimately make the Varroa problem worse by selecting for pyrethroid-resistant mites). I urge all UK beekeepers to lobby the BBKA through their local branch to abandon their mute acceptance of 'cash for chemicals' from Bayer, Syngenta or any other company, and to to request that they make a clear statement supporting organic farming, which is the only safe option for bees. Philip Chandler www.biobees.com NOTES 1. The facts about Imidacloprid in this message have been checked by a microbiologist. Please read the attached report for more information about neonicotinoids. 2. You can read more about Imidacloprid here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imidacloprid 3. You can read the EPA's document on Imidacloprid here: http://www.epa.gov/EPA-PEST/1998/September/Day-18/p25085.htm 4. If you do NOT wish to hear from me again, with immediate effect, please use the link below. http://www.biobees.com/cgi-bin/fump/register.cgi?un=3tbHj3_XW2ZB **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2008 15:28:01 GMT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "deknow@netzero.net" Subject: Re: Bees, pesticides and sugar beet Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi Phil, This is all good information...but a key link is missing. I agree that imidacloprid is highly toxic to bees. I have no reason to doubt the uses and residue limits you cite. Yet....what are the actual levels being found in the sugar? In the hive? In field bees that die away from the hive? This seems like easy to obtain data...something that perhaps someone who buys sugar in quantity to feed bees might have already done. It isn't like we don't have access to the final product (beet sugar) to test it. This would make a much more convincing argument. deknow **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2008 16:10:54 +0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Gavin Ramsay Subject: Re: Bees, pesticides and sugar beet MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi Phil I've contributed recently on this topic to another forum which, I believe, previously decided to ban you for the way you were treating other forum members. You might have missed the discussion there, so I'm happy to explain here too if you like. I don't really understand your campaign against beet sugar. As a result of the stuff being posted there I made enquiries from British Sugar, the company making most of the beet sugar sold in the UK, to clarify a statement they had already put out. They told me that they routinely employ an accredited company for quality control of their product and have never ever had a detection of imidacloprid in their product using a method which detects imidacloprid at 1 ppb. I do accept that there are studies which suggest sub-lethal effects at 0.5 ppb, but there are also studies which show a lack of long-term effects in bee colonies at much higher levels. However, no detection is no detection and I can't believe that there is a problem with this product in UK beet sugar. I'll leave it for others to comment on whether the EPA got it wrong. The reasons for the lack of imidacloprid in beet sugar are not hard to spot. A tiny amount goes in on the seed in comparison to the large harvest of beet roots. Although it is a systemic insecticide it is not partitioned to the roots (one study found only 0.1% of applied imidacloprid in the root but much higher levels in foliage), and the refining process removes impurities too. Consider the higher levels of imidacloprid you would expect to see in nectar and pollen from oilseed rape, by far the biggest spring source of nectar and pollen in most arable areas in the UK. A large intake of the pesticide you would imagine (from the imidacloprid seed dressing now used extensively in the UK on OSR) compared to the trace possible for beet sugar, yet colonies appear to build up just as they have always done on this particular forage. Summer colony collapse isn't seen in the UK, and our recent problems in winter can't be due to early spring forage contamination given the turn-over in the hive through the summer and autumn. As to your comments on organic farming and your wish for the BBKA to lobby for its adoption, we are currently facing concerns over the security of the food supply and rising prices worldwide. Are you able to point me to an independent, thorough review of the likely effects on food production (and prices) should major producing countries go over totally to tightly defined organic production methods? best wishes Gavin PS How can we 'opt out' of receiving more emails from you if you are transmitting them through Bee-L?! **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2008 11:22:09 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: Re: Fumagilin-B In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Chris asks: > So are we seeing resistance arising in Nosema as it does with everything > else that is hit with the same treatment time after time? I believe that nosema ceranae is less effected by the current formula of fumagilin than nosema apis was. I have tried to find a viable bottle of the old fumidil for testing but all bottles found are way past the exporation date. Bob Harrison opinion: Nosema ceranae is tough to cure. Randy Oliver started looking into nosema ceranae around the same time as i did. We agreed on some points but had to agree to disagree on others. One of the points was I said from my observations the new nosema C. was a killer of bees and *the* main issue in CCD. I said so in my ABJ article last fall. Nosema C. was found in 100% of CCD samples. Randy was not so sure and decided to run test yards. His articles are mainly from those test yards and try to answer why some bees can survive with high spore counts and others fail. As Randy and I discussed the issue I was puzzled myself as Nosema C. should be taking out whole yards and it wasn't in most cases in his test yards or mine. I now believe the reason why is because of the very long time nosema C. has been in the country and in bee hives around the world undetected. Randys article says at least from 1995 in the U.S. by going back and testing samples. Unpublished but documented testing now seems to place widespread nosema C. in the U.S. farther back (much farther back). I believe nosema ceranae infestation in the U.S. is in most apiaries and due to the decades of being in the U.S. some bees have become nosema C. tolerant and can handle high spore counts. The bees we need to start using in our breeding programs. I also believe that by many commercial beeks using fumidil to control nosema apis for decades (which has effect on nosema C. ) the complete collapse of our U.S. bee industry has not been seen like in Spain when nosema C. wiped out most of the bee population. It is my opinion based on my experiments with nosema C. that feeding as per label as a preventative fumagilin does help prevent widespread hive loss. However only in bees which are not heavily infested and bees in equipment which does not have a heavy spore load. reusing equipment with heavy nosema ceranae spore load quickly brings the problem back ( Bob harrison tests). However if seen early enough the effects can be reversed using a strong drench. it is my opinion that higher amounts drenched on bees not taking feed will most times turn the bees around but recovery time is dependent on many factors some of which I do not fully understand and may never understand. A point Randy was right on and I was wrong on in our talks last fall. My solution back then was to depopulate and sterilize equipment with acetic acid. However both our positions had merit. Starting over with clean equipment is costly but a proven problem solver but drenching keeps you in business doing pollination and producing honey. It is my opinion ( and possibly not Randy Oliver's and Eric Mussins) that when you see bees jumping into feeders with high spore counts ( starving because of the fungi in the midgut and not able to take feed) that those hives are not worth treating. Further research is needed. I did turn a few dead bees in feeder hives around by removing the feeder and giving a clean feeder with fresh syrup( plus drench). I never checked the spore level in the feeder but some suspect the feeder could be spreading nosema spores. My friend Horace Bell and I had a long conversation on the subject last January and he even suspected that bees could pick up spores from a pond or water source. I had no opinion but certainly possible I would think. Could the nosema fungi stay viable in a water source or a hive feeder? Randy does not address the bees dying in the feeder in his next article but because I use inside feeders I *always* see the symptom when the hive is drawing its last breath. Maybe Randy will comment. Of course *if* you use a top feeder and the bees have not got access to the syrup you will not see the dead bees in feeder symptom. As far as I know only a handful of beeks and researchers are looking at nosema C. with prevention and control for the beekeeper. The industry owes Randy a debt of gratitude for his nosema articles. I do not see how Randy gets his bee work done. I have a list of articles which need done or finished for both ABJ & BC but the beekeeping comes first and then the articles. I wanted to completely retire from beekeeping. Actually because i was beginning to get bored. Then CCD came along and now I am not bored. Fighting to keep healthy bees. The whole industry has pulled together to try and get a healthy bee industry back. As Randy pointed out in his article hives with high nosema ceranae spore counts produce half as much honey. A fact which brings every commercial beekeeper I speak with on board trying to control nosema ceranae. Only the best commercial beeks are left now and those beeks react quickly to new problems which they have to to survive in a tough business. Also I might add that a healthy hive has a tough time surviving the neonicotinoids but the neonicotinoids kill quickly a diseased and mite infested hive. bob **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2008 12:44:21 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Roni Subject: Spiders MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Should you leave spiders you find in the hive alone, or remove them? Do = spiders and bees live symbiotically, or are spiders harmful to bees? = Would spiders eat bee pests like the the small hive beetle or wax moths? Roni **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2008 09:14:04 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: randy oliver Subject: Re: Fumagilin-B In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit > >The question now is if 2 g. in a liter recommended for drench on the Canada label is a higher dose than when fed in 2 gallons of feed or the same. Hi again Bob, There are 21mg active ingredient per gram of Fumagilin-B. So in 2g/L, there would be 42mg a.i. per liter. Compare that to the 95g of active ingredient per gallon of heavy syrup when prepared by label (1 bottle in 100 gal). Higes found that 30mg a.i., fed 4x, weekly, in only 500ml (about 2 cups) of syrup completely eliminated N ceranae. However, when I drenched bees with the same amount, 4x, weekly, it did not. So apparently drenching may not get the dose into the bees' guts as well as feeding syrup, and a higher dose is required. Here is some recent information for the List: I've been corresponding with both Dr. Higes, and Antonio Pajuelo of CONSULTORES APÍCOLAS http://www.pajuelo.info/. These two researchers disagree as to the seriousness of N ceranae infections. Dr. Higes feels that colonies can handle moderate infections as long as the queen is able to sustain egglaying to offset the continued premature death of infected foragers. Collapse may not occur for months, or maybe more than a year after the colony becomes infected. A new young queen, or supersedure queen, may give the colony a "second wind," but if the queen begins to fail, the colony will succumb. His recent studies have found that during this period of inapparent infection, that colonies may exhibit a 50-70% loss of honey production. On the other hand, Pajuelo feels that most of the Spanish collapses are caused by the drought in Spain. He cites three labs that do not find unusual mortality from N ceranae when colonies receive adequate nutrition. Pajuelo suggests that the Spanish Síndrome de Desaparición de Colmenas, SDC is caused by a combination of three factors: poor nutrition, in-hive miticides, and high varroa levels. So there you have it--clear answers from the experts, in complete opposition to each other! And yes, Bob, since so little is currently known about N ceranae, and with so much research being done, anything that anyone puts into print will likely be dated within weeks--this post included! Randy Oliver **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2008 11:47:54 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Eric Simms Subject: Bees, pesticides and sugar beet MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable "2. Imidacloprid is a systemic insecticide, meaning that it permeates every= cell of the plant, even if only used as a seed dressing. That means it WIL= L be present in the sugar, as processing does not affect it."=0A=0AThe abov= e=A0statement is not true.=A0 Refining sucrose sugar removes almost=A0any t= race of any substance other than sucrose sugar molecules.=A0 The bulk of th= e=A0impurities are removed=A0by the crystallization process, and subsequent= washings.=A0 The remaining impurities are bleached out and that would most= likely destroy or denature=A0nicatinoids.=A0 The black liquor molasses lef= t over from the refining process contains all of the other organic and non = organic impurities, while the sucrose sugar crystals hitting the dryer are = >99.9% pure sucrose sugar.=A0 There are few commercial processes as effecti= ve as the sugar refining process at removing impurities of almost any kind.= =0A=0AThe chief complaint about sucrose sugar is it's purity, and lack of a= ny residual nutrients or beneficial minerals.=A0 It is in fact, purely suga= r, far more so than honey.=0A=0AEric Simms, Chemical Engineer=0A=0A=0A = **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2008 11:09:42 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: randy oliver Subject: Re: Fumagilin-B In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline HI Bob, I haven't used inside feeders on my N ceranae-infested hives, so can't answer. But I've heard lots of reports of bees drowning in the feeders that support your observation. I also feel that your hypothesis about genetic resistance to N ceranae is accurate. In my limited testing, I find that some colonies remain free of the disease even though they are surrounded by sick colonies. To answer your question about finding time--my poor bee business has gotten hammered by me being distracted by research and writing. Also hit by foregoing most mite treatments for the last two years (and going on 6 years without synthetic chems)--that's why I'm using more Apiguard and Miteaway this year. But I greatly appreciate the financial support I have gotten from individuals and associations who have sent checks to help me continue my reporting and research! Indeed, those donations have allowed me to remain on the edge of solvency. I'm hoping for a good year in almonds this season--my numbers are up, and the bees look pretty good so far. I guess we'll see when the weather turns cold... Randy Oliver **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2008 15:32:50 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: T'N'T Apiaries Subject: Re: Fumagilin-B MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Bob Will likely comment on some of this later, but have to run. In the mean time, an instruction sheet using US measurements can be printed off the Medivet website. Click on Innovative products, then choose Fumagilin-B, then Product & usage directions (english only). Should get you the pdf you need. David Tharle Ardmore, AB > **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2008 08:34:55 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: Re: Fumagilin-B In-Reply-To: <3dcef4a10810061109v43e26f0bh38870a5490543225@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Randy, > To answer your question about finding time--my poor bee business has > gotten hammered by me being distracted by research and writing. Mine was also. Takes time to research articles. I could hammer out a typical ABJ or BC article about wintering bees or making splits etc. in a few hours but articles like my neonicotinoid article (ABJ April 2008) and the Australian update (December 2007 ABJ) took countless hours. The fuel alone traveling to North Dakota & back for the December article was over $500 plus I spent five days on the road. My editors at ABJ & BC are the same as yours and both have told me they value your articles and mine. This summer I put the bees first and the bees look the best in years. Maybe in the coming weeks I can finish a few articles. The "Moving bees in hot weather article" (ABJ) which you shared your experiences for only needs finishing touches. My article for BC on providing heat to Milk tanks only needs some pictures taken at a commercial operation in Nebraska. Also > hit by foregoing most mite treatments for the last two years (and > going on 6 years without synthetic chems)- I last used a hard chemical strip the year before API LIFE VAR came on the market. At the ABF convention in Savannah, Georgia I spoke to beeks on the experience as I believe I might have been one of the first to use. I believe the convention was in January 2002(?). After I quit using strips I changed all comb which had ever had coumaphos or fluvalinate used on and went to using Api Life Var ( first few years) then apigard or miteaway 2. After six years of using thymol or formic treatments I can say the beekeeper can control varroa with these products. Each has limitations which the beek needs to be aware ( which I have discussed on BEE-L over the last six years and a search with my name and the product should bring up my methods) . Also Randy has tested each except maybe api life var and his results are in his articles or at his website. Sincerely, Bob Harrison **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2008 13:03:57 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Brian Ames Subject: German Beekeeper: Guenter Friedmann Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit An interesting and refreshing contrast to our fixation on pollination , feed lot beekeeping and heavy colony management style in the USA. http://en.epochtimes.com/n2/science-technology/beekeeping-bee-colonies-natural-processes- respecting-nature-queen-bees-5194.html **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2008 14:32:30 -0400 Reply-To: bee-quick@bee-quick.com Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: James Fischer Subject: Re: Canadian Honey Council asking for $50 million MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Quit listening to the powers that be Never quit listening to anyone, especially to those who have credentials in science. Look hard at the motivation of anyone who demands that you ignore contrasting views. > start looking deeper at the locations of your losses. > The plants in your area. Only days ago on Sept 30, in the "Fructose vs sucrose" discussion, the cause of all problems was claimed to be "poison sugars" in HFCS. Now plants/pesticides are blamed. Both are presented as "cover-ups". Which is it? > Even from the U.S. we see visible patterns emerging. > My friends in Europe see patterns in Canada. Optical illusions and delusions. See this: http://tinyurl.com/4myeyf or http://www.cbc.ca/technology/story/2008/10/03/control-study.html "People often see patterns where none exist in an attempt to give structure and security to unpredictable situations, a new study on loss of control suggests. People turn to superstitions, rituals and conspiracy theories as a way to deal with complex or chaotic circumstances, according to the study, published in the journal 'Science'." > In the U.S. the powers that be do not want to take > on the chemical companies. EVERYONE is "taking on" the chemical companies, even when the actual data clearly points to the self-inflicted gunshot wound of beekeeper miticide misuse as the factor that swamps out the tiny trace levels of crop pesticides. The pesticide-bashing is a distraction from the real and tangible problems of invasive, exotic pathogens, pests, and predators that continue to waltz through our ports due to an utter lack of concern about biosecurity in international trade. To make matters worse, we have beekeepers openly advocating things like their use of "Taktic" as a miticide, and advocating the shipment of bees from overseas as a solution to the problem of invasive exotic bee diseases and pests from overseas. The disconnect is that the best way to import more diseases and pests is on live, uninspected bees of the sort promoted by these same beekeepers. > In Europe the hives keep crashing unless chemical > companies are reined in... Not in the view of those who regulate pesticides in Europe. (Read question here, click on "Answer" button to read the answer of the European Parliament): http://tinyurl.com/4tr56z or http://www.europarl.europa.eu/sides/getDoc.do?pubRef=-//EP//TEXT+WQ+E-2008-3 670+0+DOC+XML+V0//EN&language=EN > *If* you fund research into problems concerning chemicals make > sure those doing the research will be willing to follow the > evidence and not afraid to stand behind findings pointing in > the direction of chemical companies. Far too much speculation is done in the face of data that tends to exonerate the pesticides. > When certain chemicals are banned the situation improves. Specifically where? And for who? And which specific chemicals? Who, what, when, where, how? What has happened over and over is that the European "Precautionary Principle" is used to temporarily suspend use of specific chemicals, but things do NOT improve, so the suspensions are lifted. Yet people with agendas cite these uses of the "Precautionary Principle" as if they were "proof" of something, rather than what they are, which is a preemptive suspension, specifically taken in the ABSENCE of proof. (Why do you think they call it the "PRECAUTIONARY Principle", for Pete's sake?) > Do not let people tell you otherwise. No, of course not! Don't ever pay attention to new data, or consider findings that might challenge the preconceived notions of beekeepers. That might prompt one to think for oneself, and we can't have that, now can we? > Do not let the chemical companies blame misapplication > as the *sole cause* of problems. When one finds high levels of pesticide in pollen, how did it get there, if not from spraying blooms? Understand that the trace levels that might be carried to the pollen by the plant's metabolism are well-understood, and easy to measure. The EPA data often contains these tiny numbers. Pesticide kills do happen, and the good news is that the newer systemic pesticides reduce the incidence of pesticide kills. Why? Simple - if the grower does not spray it, the grower does not even have a chance to screw up. > Some even allowed while the bees are on the bloom. Aside from "Assail", which is old news by now, are there any others? I don't think so. > When beeks complain about a certain chemical the chemical > companies change the formula slightly and register under > a new name which is a smart tactic as causes problems for > beeks as then you have got 2 to many named products > to fight against instead of one. Please cite an example. The chemical companies aren't going to slog through the multi-year and multi-million-dollar-sort-of-expensive process of registering a new pesticide formulation with the EPA just to be able to avoid "beekeeper complaints". If we beekeepers had that sort of clout, it would be a very different world. > Those researching the bee die offs in Canada and the U.S. > ignore the facts about the areas and the crops being worked > being involved in bee problems. So all the researchers are stupid? Blind? Ignorant of the basic concept of correlation? Unaware of cause and effect? Every single one of them in the USA and Canada? Which is it? Again, we need specifics to back up the claims. > In the U.S. avoiding certain crops and areas using certain > chemicals is part of the key to survival. Partly correct. Avoiding certain CROPS could result in better "survival", but it is the low-protein pollen of the plant that is the root problem here, rather than the chemical use in the area. Drought makes for even worse pollen than normal, so weather is also a factor. It is a nutrition issue. > look at the areas hardest hit in Canada and oddly enough > they are the areas in Canada in which the chemicals I am > always talking about are used the most. No surprise - the areas were agriculture is most prevalent is where the most bees are kept and deployed, so these are the areas that are "hit hardest". By the same logic, one can note that beekeepers west of the Mississippi are "harder hit" than those East of the Mississippi in the USA. The reason is simple, operations are hundreds of times bigger West of the Mississippi, so they have more hives to examine. **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2008 15:17:08 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Maryam Henein Subject: bee footage and photos Comments: cc: g@georgelangworthy.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear Beekeepers, Hive Mentality Films is looking for old footage of beekeeping to = establish the changes in the industry over the years. We'd also like any = black and white pictures. We have a small budget for this. I thought I'd = ask the list. If anyone is interested please contact me at maryam@vanishingbees.com We are currently cutting a version to submit to Sundance.=20 thank you, -- (\ {:|}{|||}-- =20 (/=20 Maryam Henein Writer/Producer/All-around Raconteur www.vanishingbees.com http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DzXircJ_eJ1Y (maryam amid thousands and thousands of bees) Sacramento Highlights http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DPqotV9pOyBQ http://ossmedicinejewelry.etsy.com=20 (Animal Medicine Jewelry/place link in browser) **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2008 04:48:50 +0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Juanse Barros Subject: NZ News MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline An Ashburton beekeeper has taken a swipe at the Ashburton District Council for what he describes as 'poor performance' by some of its staff. Roger Bray has taken issue with staff over 'inappropriate' use of chemicals causing bee deaths. The problem has been going on for a number of years and no-one at council appears willing to listen, Mr Bray said. http://www.ashburtonguardian.co.nz/index.asp?articleid=12076 Commercial beekeepers are warning that the arrival of the varroa mite and the increase in grapes, which self pollinate, will cause problems in Marlborough. National Beekeepers Association chief executive Jim Edwards said the establishment of varroa mite meant the majority of feral bee hives in the North Island had disappeared and he expected a similar scenario in the South Island. "You can expect the impact to become more apparent over the coming months." http://www.stuff.co.nz/marlboroughexpress/4713720a6563.html Fears that the devastating bee disease Colony Collapse Disorder has arrived in Wairarapa has prompted a leading beekeeper to make an appeal to farmers using sprays. http://tinyurl.com/3g5rzx -- Juanse Barros J. APIZUR S.A. Carrera 695 Gorbea - CHILE +56-45-271693 08-3613310 http://apiaraucania.blogspot.com/ juanseapi@gmail.com **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * ****************************************************