From MAILER-DAEMON Sat Feb 28 11:05:41 2009 Return-Path: <> X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.8 (2007-02-13) on industrial X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-87.1 required=2.4 tests=ADVANCE_FEE_1,AWL, MAILTO_TO_SPAM_ADDR,SPF_HELO_PASS,USER_IN_WHITELIST autolearn=disabled version=3.1.8 X-Original-To: adamf@IBIBLIO.ORG Delivered-To: adamf@IBIBLIO.ORG Received: from listserv.albany.edu (unknown [169.226.1.24]) by metalab.unc.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9ECF148858 for ; Sat, 28 Feb 2009 11:03:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from listserv.albany.edu (listserv.albany.edu [169.226.1.24]) by listserv.albany.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id n1SG3YWV017258 for ; Sat, 28 Feb 2009 11:03:37 -0500 (EST) Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2009 11:03:36 -0500 From: "University at Albany LISTSERV Server (14.5)" Subject: File: "BEE-L LOG0901A" To: adamf@IBIBLIO.ORG Message-ID: Content-Length: 152108 Lines: 3424 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 1 Jan 2009 04:45:10 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Chris Slade Subject: Re: moving bees MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit As often as not the hive sits on the passenger seat of my car (with a seat belt on of course). This gives one a great incentive to make sure that they are well secured. With mesh floors ventilation isn't a problem. It is useful, though, to cover the upholstery! Chris ******************************************************* * Search the BEE-L archives at: * * http://listserv.albany.edu:8080/cgi-bin/wa?S1=bee-l * ******************************************************* ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 1 Jan 2009 12:20:52 +0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dave Cushman Subject: Re: Drone Comb Destruction versus Removal/Replacement In-Reply-To: <003601c96b90$9b9cb190$0501000a@j> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Jim >> It is possible for a Langstroth frame to be built out in >> about one hour from a pencil thickness bead of wax, > > Isn't this merely because that "pencil thickness" of wax > is all the wax needed to draw out the entire frame? Yes, but it shows the work rate that the bees can achieve. In UK a sheet of brood foundation to fit our size of brood frame weighs 51 grams, which is exactly the weight of an entire fresh drawn comb of that size. Sheets of foundation are not drawn as fast as that, but you can speed up comb drawing by cutting holes in the foundation... http://dave-cushman.net/bee/applecorer.html Regards & Best 73s, Dave Cushman, G8MZY http://melliferabees.net Email: dave.cushman@lineone.net Short FallBack M/c, Build 7.21/2.01 Son of ORAC M/c, Build 5.o1/2.o1 ******************************************************* * Search the BEE-L archives at: * * http://listserv.albany.edu:8080/cgi-bin/wa?S1=bee-l * ******************************************************* ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 1 Jan 2009 05:55:22 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: C Hooper Subject: Buckwheat, Blueberry Honeys Most Active Against Wound Bacteria Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Exclusive to Apitherapy News: Buckwheat, Blueberry Honeys Most Active Against Wound Bacteria Evaluation of Efficacy of Canadian Honeys Against Wound-Infecting Bacteria in vitro http://tinyurl.com/a8qqax [Note: The results of this study were presented at the recent convention of the Ontario Beekeepers’ Association in Niagara Falls, Canada.] Authors: Katrina Brudzynski, Robert Lanningan Brock University, St. Catharines, Ontario, Canada, London Health Sciences Centre, London, Ontario, Canada Honeys possessing antibacterial activity have been demonstrated to be useful as an adjunct topical treatment of infected wounds and burns. Canadian honeys have been shown to posses antibacterial activity against two standard bacterial species, Gram-negative Escherichia coli (ATCC 14948) and Gram-positive Bacillus subtilis (ATCC 6633), however their activity against wound-infecting bacteria have not been adequately investigated yet. Purpose: To evaluate the susceptibility of seven clinical isolates from infected wounds to Canadian honeys in vitro... ******************************************************* * Search the BEE-L archives at: * * http://listserv.albany.edu:8080/cgi-bin/wa?S1=bee-l * ******************************************************* ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 1 Jan 2009 09:41:50 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Mike Griggs Subject: Re: honey laundering in the news In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v930.3) > As with all Publix GreenWise Market products you can expect the best. .....WE DO NOT INVESTIGATE THESE MATTERS TO DETERMINE IF THE INFORMATION IS ACCURATE.......... I can understand a disclaimer for a product for legal circumstances so as not to be pulled down by relentless litigation based on unique situations where some vender pulled a fast one on the grocery store but...... What doe the weasel words above say about the integrity of their whole line of organic products? What would they say if their organic romain had above legal limits for a pesticide--OH we did not know so its not our fault you were exposed to high levels of insecticide? Very curious that they make such to do about their organic products but refuse to check on adherence to an organic standard--probably more rampant than I want to believe! Mike ******************************************************* * Search the BEE-L archives at: * * http://listserv.albany.edu:8080/cgi-bin/wa?S1=bee-l * ******************************************************* ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 1 Jan 2009 09:43:31 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "=?windows-1252?Q?J._Waggle?=" Subject: Happy New Year! Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Happy New Year to All! Here are some uses for honey this New Years Day. Person Fed Honey On First of January Stays Sweet for Year. Chicago, Dec. 23.If you would remain sweet throughout the year eat honey on New Year's day. This prescription was given at the eighteenth annual meeting of the Chicago Northwestern Beekeepers Association during a discussion as to the best means of producing a demand for honey. It was pointed out that in Germany honey was found on every table and was used far more extensively than in America. On New Year's day, it is said, every person in Germany eats honey in order that that his disposition might remain sweet during the whole year. -The Washington Post, December 24, 1914 The use of fructose, 30 gm, taken in the form of honey, can speed alcohol metabolism and thus reduce the frequency and intensity of hangover headache. The Practicing Physicians Approach to Headache - 1978, page 76 by Seymour Diamond, Donald J. Dalessio Sick-Headache No.2.-Take of honey two are three tablespoonfuls on an empty stomach, and then lie down and keep quiet until the honey has moved out of the stomach. The Doctor at home: Illustrated. Treating the Diseases of Man and the Horse 1882, page 40 by B J Kendall, Kendall, Dr. B.J., & Co The best hangover cure of all may be a cup or two strong tea with honey. According to the National Institute of Neurological and Communicative Disorders and Stroke, honey speeds up alcohol metabolism, which means that it will help your body break down the alcohol more quickly. What Women Need to Know - 2005, page 14 By Marianne Legato, Carol Colman eating toast and honey after a long evening's drinking will help prevent the morning-after hangover headache Better Homes and Gardens - 1977, page 61 one old-time remedy among bartenders is simply honey in hot water The Green Pharmacy - 1997, page 232 By James A. Duke Try mixing together some bananas, some milk and a little honey to form a smoothie and drink it. Dont be tempted to apply the mixture to your sore head. Household Management for Men by Nigel Browning, Jane Moseley - 2003, page 138 To relieve the pain of a headache, drink a half cup of tea with a shot of whiskey and honey in it. Medically Speaking: A Dictionary of Quotations on Dentistry, Medicine, and 1999, page 304 by Carl C. Gaither, Andrew Slocombe Best Wishes, Joe ******************************************************* * Search the BEE-L archives at: * * http://listserv.albany.edu:8080/cgi-bin/wa?S1=bee-l * ******************************************************* ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 1 Jan 2009 11:54:30 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Rob Green Subject: Midwest Beekeeper - Free Download In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed A quick reminder that all 2008 issues of Midwest Beekeeper are available for free download. Many stories have appeared here, but others haven't. Review the year by downloading the pdfs for free at www.IndianaBeekeepingSchool.com ******************************************************* * Search the BEE-L archives at: * * http://listserv.albany.edu:8080/cgi-bin/wa?S1=bee-l * ******************************************************* ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 1 Jan 2009 13:13:08 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: =?UTF-8?Q?Peter_L_Borst?= Subject: Re: Drone Comb Destruction versus Removal/Replacement Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Drone brood removal did not adversely affect colony health as measured by the size of worker populations or by honey production. Fall worker populations were similar in the two groups. Average honey production in the treatment group was significantly greater than production in the control group during period 1, similar to production in the control group during period 2, and perhaps greater overall when measured over the season (P < 0.07). This suggests some added benefit from drone brood removal in addition to the maintenance of lower mite levels. Increased honey production could be a direct result of lower mite levels, or it could be due to colonies in the treatment group not needing to support as many adult drones. Seeley suggested that this might partially explain his finding that colonies that rear and care for drones gain less weight than colonies that do not rear and care for drones. Although both groups in this experiment reared drones, only the control group cared for them as adults. Evaluation of Drone Brood Removal for Management of Varroa N. W. CALDERONE, JOURNAL OF ECONOMIC ENTOMOLOGY Vol. 98, no. 3 ******************************************************* * Search the BEE-L archives at: * * http://listserv.albany.edu:8080/cgi-bin/wa?S1=bee-l * ******************************************************* ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 1 Jan 2009 16:16:48 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: ALDEN MARSHALL Subject: Re: Drone Comb Destruction versus Removal/Replacement MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=utf-8; reply-type=original Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit > Average honey > production in the treatment group was significantly > greater than production in the control group during > period 1, similar to production in the control group > during period 2, and perhaps greater overall when > measured over the season (P < 0.07). This suggests > some added benefit from drone brood removal in > addition to the maintenance of lower mite levels. > Though I have no empirical evidence, this has been my impression for the past couple of years when comparing to my fellow beeks in the area. ******************************************************* * Search the BEE-L archives at: * * http://listserv.albany.edu:8080/cgi-bin/wa?S1=bee-l * ******************************************************* ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 2 Jan 2009 10:30:27 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Jerry Bromenshenk Subject: Re: moving bees MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Chris We did some work this fall, reported on it at CA Beekeepers. Using a high end thermal imaging camera, we shook, opened, and did a variety of things to beehives in cold weather in Montana. In every case, the camera revealed that when disturbed in cold weather, a colony almost immediately starts generating more heat, and will do so for some time after the disturbance. So, the colony seems to protect itself from the cold, even when a lid is removed and frames pulled out. Simply banging a hive about caused the same heat increase. So, your bees will probably turn up the thermostat when you move them in cold weather. That obviously causes them to accelerate consumption of honey, but it seems like they generate heat to buffer themselves against chill. Jerry **************Stay up-to-date on the latest news - from fashion trends to celebrity break-ups and everything in between. (http://www.aol.com/?ncid=emlcntaolcom00000024) ******************************************************* * Search the BEE-L archives at: * * http://listserv.albany.edu:8080/cgi-bin/wa?S1=bee-l * ******************************************************* ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 2 Jan 2009 11:16:27 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: Imidacloprid reveiw In-Reply-To: <9dbdc5490812261707t7ff9017dr60d3ec4402b2af8c@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello All, Belated holiday greetings. I was on the road Christmas day enroute to Texas. Currently in Florida in a remote location. Today is the first wireless hookup I have found. Lots of emails but no time to read. The area is so remote I have not seen a TV program or even news for a week. I did read Randy's post and want to assure Randy he has never offended me nor has others on BEE-L. I am hard to offend. Kirk Jones: I am not far from your Florida location and might could stop by but think you might be at AHPA when I am in your winter area. Things are strange in almonds this year. Growers believe (as do some beeks) that there is a glut of hives in top shape and some beeks are dropping prices which is making the market unstable unless you already have a contract ( WHICH CAN NOT BE BROKEN BY THE GROWER ) which means read the fine print.The below was sent on Christmas but only now reading . Hope has not already been posted but need to get moving and no time to look. > This email is to inform you that the comment period for the registration > review of imidacloprid has recently opened. Below you will find a link > to the imidacloprid docket. Through this link you can view the Agency's > preliminary work plan and supporting documents for imidacloprid. You > are also invited to submit comments regarding these documents and the > Agency's plan to review imidacloprid. All comments must be received on > or before March 17, 2009. > > http://www.regulations.gov/fdmspublic/component/main?main=DocketDetail&d=EPA-HQ-OPP-2008-0844 Sincerely, Bob Harrison > ******************************************************* * Search the BEE-L archives at: * * http://listserv.albany.edu:8080/cgi-bin/wa?S1=bee-l * ******************************************************* ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 2 Jan 2009 17:41:35 -0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Peter Edwards Subject: Re: moving bees MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The conventional wisdom is that if bees are moved in cold weather, they will defaecate in the hive - and this clearly is not good from a disease point of view. It was always said that you should move bees after a few open days when they have been able to fly. Some tips on (small-scale) moving here: http://www.stratford-upon-avon.freeserve.co.uk/PENotes/MovingBees.htm Best wishes Peter Edwards beekeepers at stratford-upon-avon.freeserve.co.uk www.stratford-upon-avon.freeserve.co.uk/ ******************************************************* * Search the BEE-L archives at: * * http://listserv.albany.edu:8080/cgi-bin/wa?S1=bee-l * ******************************************************* ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 2 Jan 2009 13:06:14 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Peter L Borst Subject: Honey Bee and Beekeeping News MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline a great source of Honey Bee and Beekeeping News Updated 1/1/09 http://www.glenn-apiaries.com/honey_bee_beekeeping_news.html ******************************************************* * Search the BEE-L archives at: * * http://listserv.albany.edu:8080/cgi-bin/wa?S1=bee-l * ******************************************************* ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 2 Jan 2009 10:27:56 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Paul Cherubini Subject: Re: Imidacloprid reveiw MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Kirk Jones: > Things are strange in almonds this year. Growers > believe (as do some beeks) that there is a glut > of hives in top shape and some beeks are dropping > prices Could this mean the CCD problem is quietly disappearing even among the migratory beekeepers? Paul Cherubini El Dorado, Calif. ******************************************************* * Search the BEE-L archives at: * * http://listserv.albany.edu:8080/cgi-bin/wa?S1=bee-l * ******************************************************* ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 2 Jan 2009 11:18:42 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: randy oliver Subject: Re: Imidacloprid reveiw In-Reply-To: <495E5CAC.7676@saber.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline > >Could this mean the CCD problem is quietly disappearing > even among the migratory beekeepers? This has been the $64,000 question, Paul--whether CCD would be like the previous collapse events, and disappear without a trace. CCD forced commercial beekeepers to pay more attention to their bees--better nutrition, being more prudent with miticide applications, better management of varroa and nosema. Couple these factors with better weather (and the resulting forage), an elimination of highly susceptible bees to whichever pathogen(s) were involved, and the rapid evolution of bee virus "mutant swarms," it would be no surprise for CCD to become yet another "Disappearing Disease." We won't know what the true supply of bees is until February (I heard of one beekeeper sending 19 semi loads of deadouts back to Texas recently). However, if I wouldn't be shipping any more bees into California unless you have a firm contract! Randy Oliver ******************************************************* * Search the BEE-L archives at: * * http://listserv.albany.edu:8080/cgi-bin/wa?S1=bee-l * ******************************************************* ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 3 Jan 2009 20:13:51 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: randy oliver Subject: Apis cerana question MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Hi All, Bob and Pete recently had a discussion on A cerana in China. Can anyone point me toward a reference that tells whether varroa becomes a problem in managed cerana colonies when they are kept in numbers in an apiary, rather than a few scattered colonies? Randy Oliver ******************************************************* * Search the BEE-L archives at: * * http://listserv.albany.edu:8080/cgi-bin/wa?S1=bee-l * ******************************************************* ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 4 Jan 2009 17:57:49 -0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Peter Edwards Subject: Re: Apis cerana question MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Randy asked: > Can anyone point me toward a reference that tells whether varroa becomes a > problem in managed cerana colonies when they are kept in numbers in an > apiary, rather than a few scattered colonies? I do not know about China, but have met many beekeepers who keep cerana in Kerala and Tamil Nadu - one had 24,000 colonies which he migrates from Tamil Nadu to Northern Kerala each year to work rubber; he then migrates gradually south again following the flow. No-one reported any problems with varroa and cerana. This was in sharp contrast to the few beekeepers with mellifera (ligustica), whose colonies were heavily infested and struggling. Best wishes Peter Edwards beekeepers at stratford-upon-avon.freeserve.co.uk www.stratford-upon-avon.freeserve.co.uk/ ******************************************************* * Search the BEE-L archives at: * * http://listserv.albany.edu:8080/cgi-bin/wa?S1=bee-l * ******************************************************* ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 4 Jan 2009 11:33:17 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: Re: FW: [BEE-L] Timing the interruption of the brood cycle to reduce Varroa. In-Reply-To: <005001c9687c$13323260$52e1140a@podargus1> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The trouble > is that in the last few years we have managed to get three unwanted > organisms (EFB, chalkbrood and small hive beetle). Few years? The fight against EFB & chalkbrood in Australia has been going on for more than a few years from my prespective. SHB is only a minor problem from my point of view and only takes a few management changes to control. A much overblown problem, >So there is concern about the scout masters Nothing personal Geoff but the above points to a problem with beekeeping in the U.S.. Today's beekeeping reality is always changing. Then there is the beekeeping group which is always trying to return beekeeping to the "good old days" which is not reality. Many times when I am asked beekeeping advice my first step is to give said beekeeper a reality check. Reality is the first step step solving beekeeping problems. The "scout masters" try to place reasonable controls but none are foolproof. Money dictates the amount of controls. The favorite method by congress is too listen and then if lucky provide only a token amount of what is needed to solve the problem. Many times funding is sent through politics in the opposite direction recommended by those needing the funding which makes those asking for help wonder about the way the system works. Especially when you see funding quickly passed for a bridge to nowhere. Even the four million dictated for CCD if used solely for prevention of new bee pests would soon be gone and in my opinion could if past beekeeping history is correct most likely only delay the inevitable. Look at the pests the U.S. even with a complete ban on imports. As long as ships ,planes and containers arrive from parts of the world which harbor such bee pests all areas in which these arrive are vulnerable "scout masters" could do a better job but all beeks which are able to see the forest past a few trees realize even the best controls will not stop the problem. Too many areas to watch and control. In my opinion varroa will be in Australia within the next decade. Instead of crying over EFB ,chalkbrood and SHB (all small issues from my viewpoint) I would be smiling from ear to ear enjoying the time you have got left without having to deal with varroa. I would love to name the U.S. researcher which said he was stopping the study of varroa 10 years ago as we know all there is to know about varroa. The statement was made before varroa destructor was discovered. Even myself was taken back by the varroa mite. The worst pest to commercial beekeeping I ever met. I remember the way beekeeping was before varroa arrived. Newbees today only know what bees are like today. There is quite a bit of resistance to varroa in our U.S. bees as compared to 20 years ago when varroa wiped out half the hives in the U.S. with the first invasion. However the prediction of Dr. Shiminuki ( ret. head of Beltsville Bee lab and at the helm at the start of varroa) that a bee would be bred which would handle varroa without treatment for commercial beeks would be found within 20 years did not happen. Sure we have certain lines which are steps in the right direction but none of those lines ( I have observed most if not all) resemble the hives of the before varroa days without treatment. With aggressive treatments and supplemental feeds those bees can come close but in my opinion mites sap the strength of a hive of bees. Consider: Many of the best commercial beek minds said crops would double when the feral colonies disappeared and only our bees would not have competition from feral hives. Did not happen. Consider: In Australia bees without varroa still gather crops like we did before varroa. I would like to see a test (which will never happen) ran by taking U.S. hive with below threshold varroa load placed against a hive from Australia which has no mite load (NONE) . Both equal as to bees/brood/etc. >From my research I already know the result. Would be a real eye opener. Count your blessings Geoff (at least for the time being!} Sincerely, Bob Harrison ******************************************************* * Search the BEE-L archives at: * * http://listserv.albany.edu:8080/cgi-bin/wa?S1=bee-l * ******************************************************* ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 4 Jan 2009 12:06:22 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: Re: honey laundering in the news In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit At least one customs agent wants to see some folks > prosecuted and put in jail. this story is complex, runs deep, > involves some surprising people and countries. The bottom line is money. Money to be made in funny honey. The finds which have been made in the U.S. involved some respected importers. Or at least they used to be respected.Also an interesting find of mine was there is no record (I could find) of what happened to the adulterated honey supposedly confiscated in the U.S.. One source said to me "Bob you do not want to know what happened to the honey". Quit looking! Making money for many packers trumps putting a quality product on the shelf. No wonder salad dressings have around 20 feet top to bottom of the shelves in Wal-Mart and honey has 3 feet on a single shelf. I wish I had pictures of the honey shelves 10 years ago, 20 years ago and on back. Honey sales is poorly promoted. bob "When I die bury me in Wal-Mart so my wife will visit" ******************************************************* * Search the BEE-L archives at: * * http://listserv.albany.edu:8080/cgi-bin/wa?S1=bee-l * ******************************************************* ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 4 Jan 2009 16:12:24 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Peter L Borst Subject: Re: Apis cerana question MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit The important issue of mite dispersal among A. cerana colonies has not yet been studied. Furthermore, the influence of the absconding and migrating habits of A. cerana colonies on the V. jacobsoni population is uncertain. In some areas, such as northern Thailand, A. cerana bees migrate regularly during the dry and hot season. -- Co-adaptation of Apis cerana Fabr. and Varroa jacobsoni Oud. Werner Rath. 1999. Apidologie 30:97-110 * * * Harassed by shortage of feed, wax-moth larvae, stealing of bees, worsening environment and other enemies, Chinese bees usually migrate to other places by colony -- Apiculture in China. Chen Yaochun. 1993. Agricultural Publishing House * * * Constraints Of Beekeeping With Apis Cerana -- Desertion of bees Apis cerana and more generally the tropical species of honey bees [Apis mellifera scutellata in the East of the African continent and Apis mellifera adansonii in the West of Africa] developed a capacity to flee their habitat in the case of a too important pressure of the parasites, the predators or the climatic or hygienic constraints unfavourable with the homeostasis of the swarm. The process of desertion engendered by these environmental constraints is widely amplified by the type of hive and the techniques of harvest. As previously announced, a harvest of the completeness of combs is a stress causing systematically the desertion. Development of beekeeping in LAOS: Various strategic choices. Bounpheng SENGNGAM. www.beesfordevelopment.org/info/bm~doc/development-of-beekeeping.pdf * * * Absconding is the colony's natural response to such unfavourable hive environments as lack of food or attacks by the bees' enemies. Correcting these situations can to some extent deter the colony from absconding. In marginal foraging areas, where food is not abundant all year round, supplementary feeding during the dearth period is necessary, especially, as already noted, when all or most of the stored honey has been harvested. Colonies of A. cerana are highly responsive to threats by the bees' natural enemies, and it is of the utmost importance for the beekeeper to make every effort to protect his colonies against attacks by bee pests. Heavy predation by hornets, ant attacks, wax-moth infestation and parasitism by bee mites are among the major problems to be dealt with. It has often been suggested that a mass programme to select A. cerana races for reduced absconding behaviour constitutes a priority sector in an apicultural development programme. From the practical standpoint, however, genetic manipulations of honeybees are usually difficult. The queens' multiple mating with drones in mid-air forms an obstacle to maintaining any particular breed or gene pool. Drones from feral nests are a major hindrance to selective breeding: unless the breeding site can be isolated, it is impossible to ensure that queens of the selected stocks mate with drones of the breeder's choice, so that the genetic quality of the offspring cannot be guaranteed. Beekeeping in Asia. Pongthep Akratanakul. FAO Agricultural Services Bulletin 68/4 Food and Agriculture Organisation of the United Nations. Rome, 1990 * * * Inside the hives, one of the first things that struck my eye were the inhabitants other than the bees. The odd silverfish or two, which we observed scurrying out of the light when lifting off the hive lids probably subsisted on scraps of pollen, honey and hive debris. Several small beetles, although in the same size range as the dreaded African hive beetle, were confined to the daub used as sealing material and were probably feeding on organic debris therein. Most interesting however, were a couple of small creatures which appeared to be a cross between a spider and a scorpion-- which, as arachnids, they are indeed related. I explained to my companions that the arachnids were called pseudoscorpions. The animals are too small to prey on the bees themselves and too large to act as ectoparasites so they are probably no threat to the principal apine inhabitants of the hives-- although there has been speculation that they may feed on the body fluids of larvae. It is more likely that they feed on small insects and other arthropods that invade the hive. Liz noted that the local beekeepers referred to the creatures as "the beekeepers' friends" but she was not sure why, nor were the several beekeepers to whom we subsequently spoke. The tantalizing possibility exists, also raised by those few researchers who have published information on the subject, that, through grooming of the bees whose living space they share, these arachnids assist in keeping down the population of varroa mites, which I observed to be present in very low numbers. (Of course, there are aspects of the biology of Apis cerana-- such as relatively shorter larval stages, the bees own grooming behaviour, tendency to abscond, etc.-- which imbues them with a relative resistance to varroa mites compared to Apis mellifera.) Himalayan ceranaid: development assistance to preserve and promote Apis cerana beekeeping in Nepal. Conrad Brub. American Bee Journal, (September, 1999) ******************************************************* * Search the BEE-L archives at: * * http://listserv.albany.edu:8080/cgi-bin/wa?S1=bee-l * ******************************************************* ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 4 Jan 2009 17:03:15 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: randy oliver Subject: Re: FW: [BEE-L] Timing the interruption of the brood cycle to reduce Varroa. In-Reply-To: <1893E5115B1D45268417F2DA5757D152@bobPC> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline >Sure we have certain lines which are steps in the right direction but none of those lines ( I have observed most if not all) resemble the hives of the before varroa days without treatment. I agree, Bob. It is now the occassional exceptional colony that matches the norm for yesteryear. And as optimistic as I am, it's frustratingly difficult to attempt to reproduce that colony through breeding. > With aggressive treatments and supplemental feeds those bees can come close but in my opinion mites sap the strength of a hive of bees. Well put! "Sap the strength." Randy Oliver ******************************************************* * Search the BEE-L archives at: * * http://listserv.albany.edu:8080/cgi-bin/wa?S1=bee-l * ******************************************************* ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 4 Jan 2009 23:14:40 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Maryam Henein Subject: FW: Honey bees home Comments: To: g@georgelangworthy.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear Bee List=2C This woman sent me this plea. Is there anyone who can get these bees so the= y don't end up dead? =20 I saw this article on vanishing honey bees. I think they have=20 all moved to my house. I live in Olive Branch=2C Mississippi. On=20 any warm day=2C it looks like millions of honey bees come out of a=20 hole in the bricks on my house. I called a beekeeper but he want to charges= =20 hundreds of dollars to remove them. The gas meeter reader said he thinks=20 that the side of my house is a honey comb two stories high. If someone want= s=20 these bees=2C please come and get them=2C for free! They have been here for= at least=20 five years.=20 =20 =20 =20 =20 Dianne Black (901)282-9282 =20 =20 =20 New year...new news. Be the first to know what is making headlines.= ******************************************************* * Search the BEE-L archives at: * * http://listserv.albany.edu:8080/cgi-bin/wa?S1=3Dbee-l * ******************************************************* ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2009 06:54:39 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Mike McDonald Subject: Re: FW: Honey bees home In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I don't know anyone who has kept bees for more than a year or two who will remove bees for free. Folks think they are doing beekeepers a favor by asking them to invest travel time, gasoline expense, equipment expense as well as several man hours without compensation. Then the homeowner finds out he will be left with a large hole in his wall that he must pay to have repaired, and the anger kicks in. It's been my experience that there is no such thing as free bees. Unlike free kittens, bees require quite a bit of real work to remove. When you tell somebody that you want to be paid for the work, they respond as if you had insulted several of their family members. I am reminded of a family nearby who called an exterminator when they discovered bees in the wall of their house. The exterminators did a very thorough job of killing the bees in the wall, handed the homeowner a bill and left. The following summer, the family called a beekeeper to come tear open their walls and remove the melted wax and fermenting honey that was seeping through their walls. The beekeeper did so, and charged several hundred dollars for the work. The old saying, "You get what you pay for," applies to bee removal as everything else. I do not know a single person who is willing to do that much work without pay, except under extraordinary circumstances. It's not that we are greedy. It's just that folks should understand that it costs us money, too, and we expect that our work is worth something. Mike ******************************************************* * Search the BEE-L archives at: * * http://listserv.albany.edu:8080/cgi-bin/wa?S1=bee-l * ******************************************************* ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2009 06:44:38 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: C Hooper Subject: Video: Healing Wounds with Honey Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Video: Healing Wounds with Honey http://apitherapy.blogspot.com/2009/01/video-healing-wounds-with-honey.html Doctors are going back in time to treat wounds with something most people have in their kitchen cupboards. ******************************************************* * Search the BEE-L archives at: * * http://listserv.albany.edu:8080/cgi-bin/wa?S1=bee-l * ******************************************************* ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2009 08:56:19 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Chris Slade Subject: Re: FW: Honey bees home MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 05/01/2009 12:58:03 GMT Standard Time, pyrite90@YAHOO.COM writes: The exterminators did a very thorough job of killing the bees in the wall, handed the homeowner a bill and left. The following summer, the family called a beekeeper to come tear open their walls and remove the melted wax and fermenting honey that was seeping through their walls. The beekeeper was lucky his bees didn't rob the dead colony and bring the poison home. Chris ******************************************************* * Search the BEE-L archives at: * * http://listserv.albany.edu:8080/cgi-bin/wa?S1=bee-l * ******************************************************* ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2009 06:34:37 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Grant Gillard Subject: Re: FW: Honey bees home In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable If it were closer, I would (as my past experience will show I've done more = than my fair share of cut-outs).=A0 But I'm inclined less and less.=A0 I ju= st don't have the time anymore and the resulting colony I bring home become= s an energy-draining, non-productive=A0liability. =A0 Unfortunately, I have perpetuated this myth that us beekeepers are a bunch = of nature-loving do-gooders who float around the country doing these remova= ls out of the kindness of our hearts.=A0=A0 Even with gasoline close to $4 = last summer, I was still doing this service for free in the name of "saving= the bees."=A0 While my work was perceived as noble and the public service = was necessary, I kept promising myself each one was going to be the last.= =A0 =A0 I will be joining those who "charge hundreds of dollars," which will not be= gin to compensate me for my time that is really better spent elsewhere. =A0 How do the rest of you handle these requests (sometimes demands) to remove = the bees acquiescing to the threats of extermination? =A0 Grant Jackson, MO =A0 =A0=0A=0A=0A ******************************************************* * Search the BEE-L archives at: * * http://listserv.albany.edu:8080/cgi-bin/wa?S1=3Dbee-l * ******************************************************* ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2009 11:07:18 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Lionel Evans Subject: Re: FW: Honey bees home MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi list, Grant says he does this for free, but is going to start charging. I have a large number of these to do each year. Most of the years I cannot get to all of the calls. I charge a minimum of $250.00. Sometimes I manage to not lose any money. But time is normally totally lost. Expenses are very high to leave equipment at each location for so long. I do NOT cut holes in the walls for someone to repair. We use the screen wire funnel removal. People need to find the cost of removal vs. extermination cost. Sometimes not all that much difference. Lionel ******************************************************* * Search the BEE-L archives at: * * http://listserv.albany.edu:8080/cgi-bin/wa?S1=bee-l * ******************************************************* ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2009 12:15:46 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Jerry Bromenshenk Subject: National Bee Meetings MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit All I will be at both National Meetings. I'm flying in to Reno tonight, will drive down to Fresno, return for the Reno meetings, then fly back out to Montana. Looking forward to meeting with friends from this list. I've some presentations to make at both meetings, and a meeting between beekeepers, growers, and Bayer Crop Science to coordinate in Fresno. We should have a both at booth at both meetings, but I won't be able to attend it much. Just look for me, introduce yourself, if we haven't met before. Jerry **************Stay up-to-date on the latest news - from fashion trends to celebrity break-ups and everything in between. (http://www.aol.com/?ncid=emlcntaolcom00000024) ******************************************************* * Search the BEE-L archives at: * * http://listserv.albany.edu:8080/cgi-bin/wa?S1=bee-l * ******************************************************* ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2009 11:37:41 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: John & Christy Horton Subject: Timing the interruption of the brood cycle to reduce Varroa. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Randy wrote: > I agree, Bob. It is now the occassional exceptional colony that matches the > norm for yesteryear. And as optimistic as I am, it's frustratingly > difficult to attempt to reproduce that colony through breeding. Randy, are you saying that colonies in general are weaker or limiting your comments to those hives that are of lines that show varroa resistance? Thanks John ******************************************************* * Search the BEE-L archives at: * * http://listserv.albany.edu:8080/cgi-bin/wa?S1=bee-l * ******************************************************* ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2009 11:45:56 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Larry Krengel Subject: Re: FW: Honey bees home MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I have done many bee removals. I enjoy the challenge and the people I = meet. Here is the red flag in this request - On any warm day, it looks like millions of honey bees come out of a=20 hole in the bricks on my house.=20 The brick house changes the nature of the job and the price. Frame = houses offer better options for removal. I pick up swarms for free. I have even taken home bird houses and wine = barrels with bees colonies inside... for free. For the price of gas I = can usually acquire a viable colony. I charge for cutting bees from = walls and for trapping bees (always my choice for a brick house). Both = require more time and there is less chance of gaining a colony. Larry Krengel Marengo, IL ******************************************************* * Search the BEE-L archives at: * * http://listserv.albany.edu:8080/cgi-bin/wa?S1=3Dbee-l * ******************************************************* ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2009 10:59:08 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Eugene Makovec Subject: Re: FW: Honey bees home In-Reply-To: <765A0709DAE74FD08103937AB04900BC@bige953ca8f8be> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > I do NOT cut holes in the walls > for someone to > repair. We use the screen wire funnel removal. What about the hive that is left behind? Do you just wait for bees to rob it out and then seal it up? Eugene Makovec, Kirkwood, MO USA ******************************************************* * Search the BEE-L archives at: * * http://listserv.albany.edu:8080/cgi-bin/wa?S1=bee-l * ******************************************************* ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2009 11:21:03 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: randy oliver Subject: Martin's question about SHB origins MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline HI Martin, I asked your question about small hive beetle origins to Dr Jay Evans at Beltsville. He sent me the most recent mitochondrial key to relationships, which I am sending to you separately. Here is his reply (the last sentence answers your question): "The comments on SHB origins below are basically correct, though I wouldn't go so far as to ID a town in southern Africa as a source(s) based on mitochondrial DNA. Thanks to Peter Neumann and his student Sebastian Spiewok we have much more extensive sampling now from Australia (Peter can decipher the initials in the attached graph). While most are identical for the part of the mitochondrion we looked at, there is some variation. We're now using more refined markers to see if there is a way of tracing movement better, but the similarities between Australian haplotypes and the 'Alberta' interceptions, and between one of two US haplotypes and the Quebec samples are solid." Randy Oliver ******************************************************* * Search the BEE-L archives at: * * http://listserv.albany.edu:8080/cgi-bin/wa?S1=bee-l * ******************************************************* ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2009 16:59:32 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: ALDEN MARSHALL Subject: Re: FW: Honey bees home MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-1; reply-type=original Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit . How do the rest of you handle these requests (sometimes demands) to remove the bees acquiescing to the threats of extermination? Grant Jackson, MO Charge to do the job if I want it or pass it on to another beekeeper who charges more than I do. Whe possible I tackle the job from inside, usually less work and expense to repair for the customer. A.M. ******************************************************* * Search the BEE-L archives at: * * http://listserv.albany.edu:8080/cgi-bin/wa?S1=bee-l * ******************************************************* ******************************************************* * Search the BEE-L archives at: * * http://listserv.albany.edu:8080/cgi-bin/wa?S1=bee-l * ******************************************************* ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2009 16:59:14 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Larry Krengel Subject: Re: FW: Honey bees home MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >> I do NOT cut holes in the walls >> for someone to >> repair. We use the screen wire funnel removal. > > > What about the hive that is left behind? Do you just wait for bees to rob > it out and then seal it up? > > Eugene Makovec, > Kirkwood, MO USA I have trapped out numerous times with no problems. It takes patience and a number of trips. It is easier to do it in the spring when the population is low as are the honey stocks. By the time everyone is trapped out there is little honey left. I have heard of letting bees rob it out, but I have found so little honey remains that others have no interest. That might be different in the fall. Larry Krengel Marengo, IL ******************************************************* * Search the BEE-L archives at: * * http://listserv.albany.edu:8080/cgi-bin/wa?S1=bee-l * ******************************************************* ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2009 19:38:21 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "=?windows-1252?Q?J._Waggle?=" Subject: Re: FW: Honey bees home Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit >>..The gas meeter reader said he thinks >that the side of my house is a honey comb two stories high. Yea, most gas meter readers do claim to be experts on honeybees, but even at 5 years existence, and looking at historical accounts of bees retrieved form walls, I doubt any comb will be found to be longer than 6 feet. >>...I called a beekeeper but he want to charges >hundreds of dollars to remove them. If someone wants >these bees, please come and get them, for free! They have been here for at least >five years. Get them for free? There is no such thing as a free bee removal, the cost is paid by the beekeeper. From my own account of doing the occasional free bee removal, I find that it costs me at least $200.00 in labor, wear and tear on vehicles from several trips to and fro etc. This is not to the mention the liability and tying up valuable equipment for an entire season, on genetics that need assessed and which may in the end turn out to be worthless, which are on average, for me about 40% or so. The best way to save the bees is to pay these beekeepers for their time which will keep them in business to save many more bees. I am in support of saving the bees, but there is no saving of bees without beekeepers to save them. Best Wishes, Joe http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/HistoricalHoneybeeArticles/ ******************************************************* * Search the BEE-L archives at: * * http://listserv.albany.edu:8080/cgi-bin/wa?S1=bee-l * ******************************************************* ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2009 17:02:18 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "J. Waggle" Subject: Re: FW: Honey bees home In-Reply-To: <49532A98243248038368F7883573BAB7@BLINE> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit > How do the rest of you handle these requests (sometimes > demands) to remove > the bees acquiescing to the threats of extermination? I tell them if they exterminate, they can also plan on spending more money to exterminate the ants and perhaps rodents that may follow. Also, to plan on spending more money to repair to the structure and wall boards from the honey dripping down throughout. And if you don’t have a beekeeper to the job right the first time, they can also plan on spending more money when another swarm inhabits the void in another few years. Joe “A Western editor expressed his delight at having nearly been called `honey' by the gal he loves, because she saluted him as `Old Bees Wax' at their last meeting.” 1857 Monroe, Wisconsin http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/HistoricalHoneybeeArticles/ ******************************************************* * Search the BEE-L archives at: * * http://listserv.albany.edu:8080/cgi-bin/wa?S1=bee-l * ******************************************************* ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2009 17:18:30 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "J. Waggle" Subject: Re: FW: Honey bees home In-Reply-To: <97065.21884.qm@web83105.mail.mud.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > I do NOT cut holes in the walls > > for someone to > > repair. We use the screen wire funnel removal. This is a common procedure amongst bee keepers, but unfortunately the intent of the homeowners wishes would not be served here, as there is seldom a saving of bees (genetics) with that method. It would be better described as an extermination procedure. Does the homeowner want them killed or does she want them saved? Is killing the queen and saving only the bees really saving them? Joe "When Noah went into the Ark, he is reported to have taken a pair of each kind of animals with him, but I suspect he had to take three bees, a queen, a drone and a worker," -C.C. Miller (ABJ. pg. 166, 1913) http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/HistoricalHoneybeeArticles/ ******************************************************* * Search the BEE-L archives at: * * http://listserv.albany.edu:8080/cgi-bin/wa?S1=bee-l * ******************************************************* ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2009 21:50:42 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: James Fischer Subject: Apiforestation MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I can't offer anything more sussinct than this quote: "It's not as much a scientific study as a 'Let's do this and see what happens'" http://www.eveningsun.com/ci_11367366 ******************************************************* * Search the BEE-L archives at: * * http://listserv.albany.edu:8080/cgi-bin/wa?S1=bee-l * ******************************************************* ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2009 22:12:05 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Maryam Henein Subject: Re: FW: Honey bees home In-Reply-To: <590494.14669.qm@web56401.mail.re3.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable out of curiousity=2C has anyone called this woman in Mississippi?> ******************************************************* * Search the BEE-L archives at: * * http://listserv.albany.edu:8080/cgi-bin/wa?S1=3Dbee-l * ******************************************************* ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2009 11:52:20 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: randy oliver Subject: Re: Timing the interruption of the brood cycle to reduce Varroa. In-Reply-To: <001401c96f5c$df204c40$8bbb4d0c@greenbripi7wfd> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline >are you saying that colonies in general are weaker or limiting your > comments to those hives that are of lines that show varroa resistance? In general. I am just talking off the cuff, without firm data. However, when I've reviewed studies that evaluated honey production, queen survival, and wintering survivability prior to varroa, the data generally make today's bees look sick. Realize that there is a bell curve of colony strength. I feel like it's shifted to the left. We still have strong colonies, just not as many. Randy Oliver ******************************************************* * Search the BEE-L archives at: * * http://listserv.albany.edu:8080/cgi-bin/wa?S1=bee-l * ******************************************************* ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2009 05:23:54 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Grant Gillard Subject: Re: FW: Honey bees home In-Reply-To: <49532A98243248038368F7883573BAB7@BLINE> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Alden Marshall shares:=A0 "When possible I tackle the job from inside, usua= lly less work and expense to repair for the customer." =A0 I did this once trying to remove a colony from a third floor apartment buil= ding.=A0 Thankfully (or maybe not) the owner of the apt building said he wa= s going to redo the apartment in question.=A0 So we went into the hive from= the inside. =A0 Holy Cow!=A0 What a mess!=A0 We had smoke (and even putting the smoker in a= n open window ironically=A0forces the wind to change direction blowing smok= e back inside), we had bees flying around the apartment, we had sheet-rock = dust covering everything, we had=A0globs of honey=A0and wax comb on the flo= or, and=A0even though we lined the floor with newspaper,=A0we had crumpled = globs of newspaper sticking to our shoes.=A0 And to top it off, I had the "= help" of the apartment owner. =A0 The owner was very nice and kept saying, "That's okay.=A0 I'm redoing the a= partment."=A0 And I enjoyed the challenge, but it was also a wonderful educ= ation. =A0 More and more, I'm doing this less and less. But I'll still come get a swar= m hanging on a branch for free! =A0 Grant Jackson, MO =A0 =A0=0A=0A=0A ******************************************************* * Search the BEE-L archives at: * * http://listserv.albany.edu:8080/cgi-bin/wa?S1=3Dbee-l * ******************************************************* ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2009 08:35:50 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Chris Slade Subject: Re: FW: Honey bees home MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 06/01/2009 01:19:41 GMT Standard Time, naturebee@YAHOO.COM writes: Is killing the queen and saving only the bees really saving them? Why should the queen be killed? If a nucleus can be arranged so the bees have to pass through it to enter their nest (all other entrances to the nest in the wall must be sealed) but cannot actually enter it, they will settle in th e nuc and tend the frame of unsealed brood that you have thoughtfully placed there. The queen in the wall will soon go off lay as there will be no income (including that of water) and will, before too long, leave the wall to take over the nest in the nuc. At least that's the theory! Chris ******************************************************* * Search the BEE-L archives at: * * http://listserv.albany.edu:8080/cgi-bin/wa?S1=bee-l * ******************************************************* ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2009 05:47:03 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Grant Gillard Subject: Disappearing Bees - Not CCD In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable In talking with some of the locals, we shared an experience of a strange oc= currence this past summer.=A0 I toss it out for our informed discussion.=A0= =20 =A0 I saw it in a couple of my hives, randomly here and there with no correlati= on to anything specific.=A0=A0I saw it in my observation hive in the garage= .=A0 It also showed up at the observation hive at the local conservation ce= nter. =A0 One of my buddies asked if I thought this was CCD, which we have not seen i= n SE Missouri, at least generally defined by the rapid decline/depopulation= of a healthy hive leaving behind brood and stores. =A0 What our hives shared in common was a slow dwindling of the population, the= queen laying fewer eggs, the foragers bringing in less nectar.=A0 It's lik= e a slow, downward spiral until the colony is a fist-sized cluster and then= they're all gone.=A0 All the comb is dry, with no brood, no stores of poll= en or honey.=A0 There are no dead bees in the hive. =A0 Initially, we guessed the hives were robbed out, but I watched my ob hive d= windle like they had a general malaise.=A0 There was nothing to rob. =A0 I tried feeding the observation hive at the conservation center but they we= re not interested in any syrup.=A0 There were no observable pests like moth= s, ants=A0or SHB.=A0 The hives that were hit were few, not widespread, just= here and there.=A0 And there are no other managerial clues between each of= us beekeepers to find any common ground.=A0 It's like this problem transce= nds the differences in location and style of management or source of bees. =A0 Any of you want to fathom a guess? =A0 Grant Jackson, MO=0A=0A=0A ******************************************************* * Search the BEE-L archives at: * * http://listserv.albany.edu:8080/cgi-bin/wa?S1=3Dbee-l * ******************************************************* ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2009 09:31:49 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Yoon_Sik_Kim?= Subject: Re: FW: Honey bees home Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Greetings, Fellow Beekeepers, Domestic and Abroad: No free bee-rescue operation for me, either. Some might recall that I keep ferals and their survivors, only. Occasionally, depending on the distance and time-consumed, I have started to charge even swarm-rescue, especially those non-residential ones, such as bank or other business, as Grant and Mike list excellent reasons not to do free bee-rescue. (I use the word rescue deliberately here, for thats what I do, never simply remove or kill, as they become my liability once removed). No, I do not believe I am just another environmentalist, trying to save the planet. When I first read the plea, for me, the real red flag was the weasel word free, claiming a dubious ownership of the bees since they are in the wall of the house owned by the homeowner. But can s/he really claim the bees are hers/his? Giving something free, for me, means a complete ownership of the thing, live or dead, by the alleged proprietor; in other words, if the homeowner really wants to give me the bees free, s/he should have a complete ownership of the bees. Not only does s/he possess the bees but they should also be able to *dispossess* them at will, such as bees in the birdhouses or in abandoned boxes. When the homeowner cannot exercise both rights-own and disown at will-s/he does not possess the bees; they are not his/hers at all. Why not claim the ownership of the bees visiting your flowerbed? Do you also own those migratory birds on your pond? Instead, those bees are infestation, just like roaches, termites, and fire ants, requiring a professional removal/rescue service. If you really own these bees, why would you put them inside your wall in the first place? If you own these bees why would you put them inside your birdhouse? What were you thinking?! Granted that you did not mean to put them where they are, since you own them, can you put them in-by taking down the walls and the combs and the honey and the brood and the bees, on the combs and in the air, in a moveable box-so that I can take them home really free? Yoon ******************************************************* * Search the BEE-L archives at: * * http://listserv.albany.edu:8080/cgi-bin/wa?S1=bee-l * ******************************************************* ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2009 09:33:21 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Lloyd Spear Subject: Dwindling MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Grant said "a slow dwindling of the population, the queen laying fewer eggs, the foragers bringing in less nectar. It's like a slow, downward spiral...anyone seen anything similar?" I have also seen this and have speculated that it is caused by contaminated comb. My speculation, and it is entirely that, is because I once tried introducing a strong nuc to that comb and it also dwindled! I have started burning such comb. I have not treated the boxes in any manner, but when they have been reused the dwindling did not recur. Hope this helps, Lloyd ******************************************************* * Search the BEE-L archives at: * * http://listserv.albany.edu:8080/cgi-bin/wa?S1=bee-l * ******************************************************* ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2009 15:38:34 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Juanse Barros Subject: More on Adultered Honey ... Comments: To: honey_australia@yahoogroups.com Comments: cc: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Ignacio_Del_R=EDo?= , "Pedro Valenzuela B." , Peter Hill MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline If it's American honey, it's likely not organic http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/12/30/MNH4151KSU.DTL ---------------------------------- Stung by honey-launder scam / Australia http://www.weeklytimesnow.com.au/article/2009/01/01/38401_national-news.html ----------------------------- Honey importing becomes 'nasty' (USA) http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/honey-importing-becomes-nasty/story.aspx?guid={5C127D8F-E947-499C-AD18-8DBE39763FA1}&dist=msr_1 ----------------------------------- Can adulterated honey be kept off store shelves? (USA) http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/12/30/MN11151K93.DTL -------------------- In pursuit of laundered Chinese honey or, have I wasted the past five months of my life? http://blog.seattlepi.nwsource.com/secretingredients/archives/158296.asp ------------------------ 'Honey laundering' beats US tariffs on Chinese food products http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/article5420698.ece --------------------------------------- Orang Asli Used To Sell Fake Honey ( Malasia) http://www.bernama.com/bernama/v5/newsgeneral.php?id=381052 ----------------------------- Piden a PROFECO parar venta de miel adulterada / Mexico http://www.hoytamaulipas.net/index.php?v1=notas&v2=56266&tit=Piden_a_PROFECO_parar_venta_de_miel_adulterada ---------------------- -- Juanse Barros J. APIZUR S.A. Carrera 695 Gorbea - CHILE +56-45-271693 08-3613310 http://apiaraucania.blogspot.com/ juanseapi@gmail.com ******************************************************* * Search the BEE-L archives at: * * http://listserv.albany.edu:8080/cgi-bin/wa?S1=bee-l * ******************************************************* ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2009 09:05:21 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: Re: National Bee Meetings In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jerry B. said: and a meeting between beekeepers, growers, > and Bayer Crop Science to coordinate in Fresno. I might suggest you drop by a bookstore and pick up a copy of the new book "A Spring Without Bees' by Michael Schacker. The book is the type you and I enjoy Jerry. Michael has went around the world gathering the facts about Imid & fipernil. Pay close attention to page 73 as the story of Henri Clement as told on page 73 is true and the same story told to me by Henri. Consider the chapter "America in the Dark" and the reported 50 million dollars Bayer paid in contributions, lobbyists etc.in 2006. We will notice if your standard of living suddenly improves dramatically. I admire Michael Schacker ( close friend of his mentor Kirk Webster) for having the courage to gather the information in a publication (with references) for those interested to read. Without a doubt he has felt the Bayer heat. I certainly did! I did as I said and read both "Fruitless Fall " & "A Spring Without Bees". I was not so impressed with "Fruitless Fall" as I firmly do not believe if we all convert to small cell all our beekeeping problems will disappear. I liked the start of the book and the very interesting "bee facts" presented in "Fruitless Fall" I do recommend "A Spring Without Bees" for commercial beeks and those which are too lazy to research the published neonicotinoid material on their own. Check with those in other areas of the world where systemic pesticides are causing bee problems. Much of the published information is in French so a friend translated for me. Maryam H. has been to France and interviewed the French beekeepers & researchers involved for her documentary "The Vanishing Bees". Maryam speaks French. Maybe Maryam (member of BEE-L) will have read the book and will comment on if in her opinion Michael S. has the facts correct?Maryam translated some information for me after I agreed to let her and George interview me. Years ago: I recommended "Mites of the Honey Bee" by Delaplane in ABJ for several years(advertisements) not because Delaplane was the author but because Delaplane went to the trouble off gathering all the known information on tracheal and varroa mites together in one publication for all to reference. 10 chapters on tracheal mites alone. Of course the book was outdated when published because of the varroa destructor discover by Denis Anderson ( Australia). I still come across beekeepers which have not read the book. Michael Schacker has done the same for the neonicotinoids. Quite a bit of information for a beekeeper to absorb at a single setting but it is what it is. Read and be informed as to what really happened in France.The slow climb back even after certain pesticides are banned. The continued pressure from chemical companies to change a formula slightly and flood the market with more of the same. I realize a couple people on BEE-L trashed both books after only reading the Amazon promo. I imagine nether has yet read either. I feel after carefully reading both that both are worth reading but "A Spring Without Bees" is a must read for commercial beeks. I am personally not interested in the opinion of people which have not read the books as you really can't tell a book by its cover nor give a book report without reading a book. I would like to hear the opinion of all which have read either book! Especially my longtime friend Jerry B.! Commercial beeks are going to get the neonicotinoids forced on us but we have found some solutions which involve moving bees, refusing to pollinate certain crops and providing pollen patties to our bees when in the area of neonicotniod contaminated pollen. France is so small many beeks had no choice but to deal with the neonicotinoids year around across the fence from their bee yard. Migratory beeks in the U.S. will see a different scenario in my opinion. Hives will be doing great and then the bees will get a dose and a large crash will occur I will say that French beeks saw the only solution as a ban of the pesticides which they in the end received. In the U.S. money has influence and "justice" is usually the will of the stronger. The chemical giants claim these chemicals are needed in order to feed the world. I would suggest the insect pollinators of the world play a big part in feeding the world. There are other choices than the neonicotinoids for controlling pests and new controls can be found through research. Billions are being made on these neonicotinoid products. It has been almost a year since my ABJ article "The Neonicotinoids" More questions than answers". The heat has subsided and perhaps the beekeeping world is ready for an update? Best of luck at the conventions Jerry! Look at the facts Jerry and not only the chemical company rhetoric. From my research the facts presented by Michael Schacker are correct. With your background perhaps you will see a solution to our current bee problems caused by the neonicotinoids. PPB have been shown to cause problems in bees in most of the research I have looked at. Even Bayer research. bob ******************************************************* * Search the BEE-L archives at: * * http://listserv.albany.edu:8080/cgi-bin/wa?S1=bee-l * ******************************************************* ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2009 16:32:37 GMT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "waldig@netzero.net" Subject: Re: FW: Honey bees home Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit >>Folks think they are doing beekeepers a favor by asking them to invest travel time, gasoline expense, equipment expense as well as several man hours without compensation. I've had people on occasion offer to sell me a colony in the wall of their house... There justification is that they hear beekeepers buy bees [in packages] all the time. I have to explain that I can do splits and produce as many bees as I want only with my labor and with greater convenience. >>Then the homeowner finds out he will be left with a large hole in his wall that he must pay to have repaired, and the anger kicks in. I always recommend as option 1 one that they can co-exist with the bees and not spend a dime. :) >>I do not know a single person who is willing to do that much work without pay, except under extraordinary circumstances. I would only do a free removal if I came across an elderly home owner in financial dire straits. Since I could not do a background check, I would have to rely on appearances. I have not met such an owner and wondered why. My guess is that poor folks just co-exist with bees. All my calls are from very affluent areas down to middle class areas. I get zero calls from poor neighborhoods. Waldemar ******************************************************* * Search the BEE-L archives at: * * http://listserv.albany.edu:8080/cgi-bin/wa?S1=bee-l * ******************************************************* ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2009 10:56:32 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: Re: Timing the interruption of the brood cycle to reduce Varroa. In-Reply-To: <3dcef4a10901051152s2b3e3252vd18f12e07b744e1@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In my opinion todays bees which are "living with varroa" year around and the virus etc. are simply not as strong as what we ran before varroa. I believe all the old timers would agree? comments old timers? If you read the old books of a 100 years ago it was recommended to not try and winter a hive with less than 20 frames of bees. Before mites we could go into winter with 20 frames and come out with 12-15. Now we go in with 9-11 and end up in spring with 6-7 as an average in the Midwest. Bees used to take the stress much better. Pesticides are weakening immune systems at times which is hard to diagnos . Beekeeping if very different today than fifty years ago when I started in beekeeping. bob ******************************************************* * Search the BEE-L archives at: * * http://listserv.albany.edu:8080/cgi-bin/wa?S1=bee-l * ******************************************************* ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2009 16:42:23 GMT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "waldig@netzero.net" Subject: Re: FW: Honey bees home Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit >>If a nucleus can be ... so the bees have to pass through it to enter their nest ... but cannot actually enter it ... they will settle in the nuc and tend the frame of unsealed brood... The queen ... before too long, leave the wall to take over the ... the nuc. At least that's the theory! I like the idea but don't if it can be made to work. How do you prevent the bees from re-entering the wall nest and yet allow the queen to eventually come out? In a set-up like this, given that the queen's scent in the nuc will be weak to non-existent do to the distance and lack of bee interchange, I think the bees will raise an emergency queen from the unsealed brood in the nuc. Waldemar ******************************************************* * Search the BEE-L archives at: * * http://listserv.albany.edu:8080/cgi-bin/wa?S1=bee-l * ******************************************************* ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2009 12:24:14 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Peter L Borst Subject: Head Banging Insects MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline If you liked the Dancing Bees, you'll love the Head Banging Termites: http://www.acoustics.org/press/152nd/fink.html -- Peter L Borst Danby, NY USA www.people.cornell.edu/pages/plb6 ******************************************************* * Search the BEE-L archives at: * * http://listserv.albany.edu:8080/cgi-bin/wa?S1=bee-l * ******************************************************* ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2009 11:07:00 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: Re: Disappearing Bees - Not CCD In-Reply-To: <56663.33228.qm@web110714.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Any of you want to fathom a guess? Not taking feed is classic of nosema cerana. Hives slowly die off as you decribe. Using all stores and dwindling with missing bees can mean queenless. If a small batch of young bees and a queen only left then welcome to the world of CCD. What you describe is more common that a large amount of brood and a small group of bees and a queen from my observations of claimed CCD. I have seen a whole load go from fstrong to dead with missing bees in a couple weeks. We suspect the neonicotinoids in these cases but have no solid proof. bob ******************************************************* * Search the BEE-L archives at: * * http://listserv.albany.edu:8080/cgi-bin/wa?S1=bee-l * ******************************************************* ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2009 12:57:40 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Peter L Borst Subject: Wintering 100 years ago MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline So far as I know, one hundred years ago it was common to winter bees in a one story hive, either in or out of doors. Root says in 1910: The prime requisite for both methods of wintering is a large force of young bees reared during the latter part of summer or early fall. A colony made up of old wornout bees with very few young, no matter how strong, will be almost sure to succumb before spring, or reach such a weakened condition as to become practically worth- less. As a general rule, in the Northern States brood - rearing ceases right after the honey-flow. As a general thing an eight-frame colony should be crowded on six combs, and a ten on an eight. The division-board must be shoved up close to the frames, and empty space, if any, filled with leaves or other pack- ing material. No mention of two story hives at all. -- Peter L Borst Danby, NY USA www.people.cornell.edu/pages/plb6 ******************************************************* * Search the BEE-L archives at: * * http://listserv.albany.edu:8080/cgi-bin/wa?S1=bee-l * ******************************************************* ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2009 12:22:02 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Grant Gillard Subject: Re: Disappearing Bees - Not CCD In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable A few point to clarify on the ob hives that I watched dwindle.=A0 Queens we= re present (marked) until the end when that last cluster of bees totally we= nt "poof" and disappeared.=A0 Queenlessness=A0was not suspected, and these = were still one-year old queens that should have had better potential.=A0 =A0 Affected hives were not necessarily strong to start with, which made me lee= ry of claiming CCD.=A0 It's like they never got the memo to go to work.=A0 = Their passion smoldered and soon went out. =A0 The affected hives were very random, maybe only one in every other bee yard= so I'm not too quick to blame any kind of pesticide or spray.=A0 Next to t= hem were healthy hives.=A0 I wondered if something caused bees to leave one= hive and drift over to a functional hive. =A0 And again, I'm working on a definition of CCD that has a rapid decline from= a healthy hive to nothing, with stores and brood left behind.=A0=A0 Maybe = I need to widen my definition. =A0 I remember a quote from last year's Sacramento conference where many claims= of CCD were really cases of PPB (Probably Poor Beekeeping).=A0 I'm not rea= dy to use CCD as a scape-goat, but I sure would like to reduce the occurren= ce of this funny thing this next year. =A0 Hope to see you all in Reno next week. =A0 Grant Jackson, MO=0A=0A=0A ******************************************************* * Search the BEE-L archives at: * * http://listserv.albany.edu:8080/cgi-bin/wa?S1=3Dbee-l * ******************************************************* ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2009 12:35:30 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Grant Gillard Subject: Re: Wintering 100 years ago In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable So would you advocate requeening the colony=A0in late summer with a queen c= ell?=A0 This would give the colony a vibrant new queen who (I would hope an= d suspect) would be fired up to lay lots of eggs going into fall, which in = turn, would supply the colony with lots of young bees. =A0 As our SE Missouri honeyflow pretty much poops out in mid-July, I've toyed = with the idea of requeening with a young queen or queen cell, then feeding = a pollen sub and syrup to account for the nectar dearth.=A0 The industry ha= s made some new advances in nutritional supplements and I'm very pleased wi= th one product in particular from this past spring. =A0 Our fall flow is so fickle, it's not worth banking on.=A0 Then our fall wea= ther tends to be quite pleasant and I've watched a lot of consumption of ho= ney stores that fall feeding is almost a mandate for me. =A0 My preference is to winter in a brood/medium, story-and-a-half. =A0 Grant Jackson, MO =A0=0A=0A=0A ******************************************************* * Search the BEE-L archives at: * * http://listserv.albany.edu:8080/cgi-bin/wa?S1=3Dbee-l * ******************************************************* ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2009 18:01:08 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Peter_L_Borst?= Subject: Re: Wintering 100 years ago Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi Grant Try to decouple the idea of making honey from getting a good colony for winter. For example, if you look at a split made with a new Queen in late spring, it will no doubt have a good chance of being a hive chock full of bees that aren't worn out by a heavy honey flow. Then, if that colony comes thru winter OK it will be ready to have some splits pulled out of it and make a decent honey crop in the 2nd year. Then, if it craps out, you already have a couple splits to replace it. In other words, the new hives replace the old. pb ******************************************************* * Search the BEE-L archives at: * * http://listserv.albany.edu:8080/cgi-bin/wa?S1=bee-l * ******************************************************* ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2009 17:45:42 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "J. Waggle" Subject: Re: Disappearing Bees - Not CCD In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit > > Any of you want to fathom a guess? I have seen this in some of my colonies in 2008, and to a greater degree in 2007. IMO, your symptoms point to nutritional deficit. The cause is difficult to determine, but I will say that nutritional deficit OR nectar dearth, need not be related to the amount of bloom OR weather conditions. Not to bore all here, I can send reasons why I think this is so, off list, if you wish. Best Wishes, Joe “There are, on average, two particularly good years in every ten, and one particularly disastrous to the bees -as was the year 1860. (Bee Culture 1861) http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/HistoricalHoneybeeArticles/ ******************************************************* * Search the BEE-L archives at: * * http://listserv.albany.edu:8080/cgi-bin/wa?S1=bee-l * ******************************************************* ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2009 20:19:52 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Tim Tucker Subject: Disappearing Bees - Not CCD Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit To Grant and all: I am in hopes that I will see many of you in Reno in the coming week. Wish I could make it down to Fresno as it looks like a great meeting as well! If you see someone hobbling around with a horrible limp in a fedora it will most likely be me, not John Skinner! (He doesn’t limp.) Come up and we will share a few moments or hopefully longer in talk about the bees. As usual I have enjoyed reading many of the posts here this past year and have a difficult time keeping up with all things of bee-work and cannot respond often times, as much as I would like. I will take a few moments however during this long winter evening when I might be able to put together a post on something that has struck a cord. My friend Grant has asked if others are seeing this dwindling of bees that is sometimes referred to, mistakenly of course, as CCD. I have observed this in 6 to 10 yards this year, where in most cases I have requeened with queens purchased and not produced of my own labors. For years I have maintained that the best queens I have are those reared at home and by the design and specific care of my own or perhaps "their own" bees. This past year I purchased 50 queens to bring in some new stock, as we do most years and it was an absolute disaster. In my estimation 70 % of those purchased queens were the short term occupants of boxes now sitting idle in my home yard, awaiting rebuilding in the spring. In the last 15 years I have seen a dramatic drop in the quality of the queens that I have purchased, however, and with good note, the survivors usually do quite well and provide me with some diversity in alleles to hopefully maintain a minimum of genetic diversity. There are also other variables at work as well, that would require a book to respond to in good detail and definition. I have friends diligently at work with other problems in nature, other species, that all concur with the effects that we see today with the dwindling of many species being a result of climate change, habitat depletion and the lack of biodiversity in our every day world. Host species bloom earlier and in different intensities due to changing rainfall patterns and unusual and erratic temperatures. Pesticides and changes in levels of CO2, greenhouse gases and a dramatic change in the overall mix of what life is exposed to over a very short time in natures terms, due to our human interventions. Sometimes I think the more we attempt to better things the worse they end up in the “Soup” or perhaps the “Stew of Life”. Which brings me to the point of the matter and that is that we need better diversity in all things from genetics to forage for our stocks of bees, butterflies, moths, bats and all things considered. I am not particularly hopeful of this changing to favor those who have no money to spend or voices to raise their issues. We humans tend to think in a very self-centered manner and mainly in very short time frames. Grant, in regard to your question regarding re-queening.... I have recommended for many years the introduction of a new queen at the end of the honey flow. If you are located from the middle section of the country down, where we have two or more distinct honey flows (Missouri, Kansas, etc) this gives time for the screw-ups, that we will always make and for reasons of nature, the queens really do go crazy trying to introduce their progeny into the hive at a time when it is absolutely vital to the raising of “winter bees”. This helps to produce healthier hives ready to winter. Summer replacement is far better than re-queening in the spring when the nature of the business is to prepare for the honey flow. One mistake and that unit is no longer a production unit for this season. Two days devoid of egg production and you are short 3,000 or more foraging workers. So, yes by all means, re-queen after the spring honey flow and feed during the dearth to stimulate brood rearing. Many years we do not have a fall honey flow at all and with August stimulative feeding we are way ahead of the curve in the event of a fall failure in nectar flow. As you mentioned sometimes these failing colonies are right next to those that are thriving. I personally believe that healthy hives with strong queens and good pheromones tend to attract bees from those with a poor or failing queen and those weakened for whatever reason tend to just give up or dwindle down to a few bees and a sorry excuse for a queen. The more bees that you run the more you will find that you need to keep all your bees at an optimum level. There is no point nursing along dinks or intensive care recipients and from a genetic standpoint you are not doing the bees a favor. The success of next years honey collection depends upon what is done from the very moment the bees stop collecting this years nectar. So read a lot of good books this winter, ………come to the annual meetings and as my great friend Bob H. says: stay informed………, as much as you desire to care for your bees. And by all means, for here at least, keep it civil! A prosperous year to all, Tim ******************************************************* * Search the BEE-L archives at: * * http://listserv.albany.edu:8080/cgi-bin/wa?S1=bee-l * ******************************************************* ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2009 22:05:29 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Peter L Borst Subject: Re: Wintering 100 years ago MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit The idea of wintering in two stories was just starting to catch on in the teens. In those days 30 pounds of honey was considered adequate for winter. February 1914 This winter we have 100 eight-frame Langstroth hives wintering outside in one yard a hive altogether too small for my ideas, so far as my choice is concerned. February 1917 THERE SEEMS TO BE a tendency on the part of some of the best beekeepers in the country to winter bees in two-story Langstroth hives. The general scheme is this: The upper story is filled with honey and the bees allowed to form a winter nest in this upper story. It is apparent from certain outcroppings at the recent bee conventions that some beekeepers have been wintering in two-story hives without protection for some years with remarkable success, and yet the fact has not been generally known. Mr. Mel Pritchard, who has charge of two of Gleanings' apiaries, has been wintering bees in both single-story and double-story hives. * * * By the forties C L Farrar was advocating wintering in 3 stories. It was his opinion that the use of "Good queens supported by unrestricted colony populations" leads to the need for three stories for winter and up to 90 pounds of honey: Designation of the lower hive body as the brood chamber is a misnomer. Supply manufactures and professional writers render a disservice to the beginner when they so describe the hive parts. Two, and better three, standard hive bodies are required as brood chambers to provide the space required for brood rearing, food reserves, and good wintering of high-producing colonies. Three brood-chamber hives will become more important with improved rearing of queens from high producing stock. Three deep of four shallow supers should be considered the minimum equipment for producing a crop with adequate facilities chambers for extracting the supers as rapidly as they are finished. Four shallow brood chambers (6-1/4'' frames) with four supers is our preference, and quite a few commercial beekeepers are beginning to adopt all shallow equipment. Apiacta 2, 1966 BASIC COLONY MANAGEMENT C. L. FARRAR * * * This idea was enlarged upon by F. E. MOELLER: If brood rearing is restricted by a crowded brood nest or because of poor queens, the colony may enter the winter with a high percentage of old bees that will die early in the winter. Such colonies may later develop serious nosema infections and perish before spring. A colony should start the winter with about 10 pounds of bees and plenty of honey to carry it to the next spring. Beekeepers in certain localities will need to think of winter stores for their colonies as early as the first of August if later honey flows are not dependable or are nonexistent. In October, colonies should have at least 45 pounds of honey in dark combs in the top brood chamber and 20 to 30 pounds of honey in each of two lower hive bodies - a total of at least 90 pounds of honey. The beekeeper must see that at no time is the available space for brood rearing reduced because of overcrowding with honey from the fall flow. A balance must be maintained between crowding the colony to get the brood chambers well filled with honey and adding space to relieve brood-rearing restriction. Partly filled supers kept on colonies in the fall may be necessary. Any subnormal colony should not be overwintered but united with another colony. By F. E. MOELLER BEEKEEPING IN THE UNITED STATES AGRICULTURE HANDBOOK NUMBER 335 Revised October 1980 Pages 64 - 72 ******************************************************* * Search the BEE-L archives at: * * http://listserv.albany.edu:8080/cgi-bin/wa?S1=bee-l * ******************************************************* ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2009 21:18:27 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Lionel Evans Subject: Re: Disappearing Bees - Not CCD MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="utf-8"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Joe & all, I do not know where you live, but in North Alabama, we almost had a drought last year (2008). We did not have very many blooms. The ones that were there did not produce any nectar. Then in the fall the golden rod would bloom a little but by lunch time the bloom was dry. These blooms did not produce nectar. Lionel ******************************************************* * Search the BEE-L archives at: * * http://listserv.albany.edu:8080/cgi-bin/wa?S1=bee-l * ******************************************************* ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2009 23:38:35 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: bman140 Subject: Re: FW: Honey bees home In-Reply-To: <20090106.113237.28393.1@webmail20.dca.untd.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I have not met such an owner and wondered why.=A0 My guess is that poor fol= ks just co-exist with bees.=A0 All my calls are from very affluent areas do= wn to middle class areas.=A0 I get zero calls from poor neighborhoods. WaldemarI get calls from all different kinds of neighborhoods. I deal with = them on a case by case view. The one thing I do is charge a fee for me to c= ome out and look to see what I'm getting involved with. The main reason I d= o that is because I've so many calls from people who have no clue if they h= ave bees, hornets, yellowjackets, or bumblebees. most of my calls are 10 mi= les or more away from me. Gets expensive real quick. Ed=0A=0A=0A ******************************************************* * Search the BEE-L archives at: * * http://listserv.albany.edu:8080/cgi-bin/wa?S1=3Dbee-l * ******************************************************* ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2009 05:18:04 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Chris Slade Subject: Re: FW: Honey bees home MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I was called last year to 'see to' a colony in a chimney. The operation was a complete success in that I persuaded the owners that the bees were doing no harm and posed no threat to them, their neighbours or their property. Furthermore their extensive garden was full of fruit trees that needed pollinators. They accepted my advice and wanted to pay me for my time and trouble, but as I had enjoyed my visit and could do some shopping while I was in the area I declined, but suggested a donation to Bees for Development. I don't know whether or not they made one. Chris ******************************************************* * Search the BEE-L archives at: * * http://listserv.albany.edu:8080/cgi-bin/wa?S1=bee-l * ******************************************************* ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2009 05:20:05 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Chris Slade Subject: Re: Dwindling MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 06/01/2009 14:33:49 GMT Standard Time, beegood@GMAIL.COM writes: it is caused by contaminated comb. Contaminated with what? Chemical residues? Disease organisms? Chris ******************************************************* * Search the BEE-L archives at: * * http://listserv.albany.edu:8080/cgi-bin/wa?S1=bee-l * ******************************************************* ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2009 05:33:45 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Chris Slade Subject: Re: FW: Honey bees home MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 06/01/2009 17:14:10 GMT Standard Time, waldig@NETZERO.NET writes: I like the idea but don't if it can be made to work. How do you prevent the bees from re-entering the wall nest and yet allow the queen to eventually come out? A Porter bee escape. Chris ******************************************************* * Search the BEE-L archives at: * * http://listserv.albany.edu:8080/cgi-bin/wa?S1=bee-l * ******************************************************* ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2009 05:57:50 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Chris Slade Subject: Re: Wintering 100 years ago MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 06/01/2009 17:59:24 GMT Standard Time, peterlborst@GMAIL.COM writes: So far as I know, one hundred years ago it was common to winter bees in a one story hive, either in or out of doors. Root says in 1910: That is what I normally do and so do most other beekeepers I know. Occasionally supers may be left on that have been returned for cleaning after extraction. I visited a hive yesterday to give a dose of oxalic acid and found they had almost filled what was an empty super with ivy honey so I'll have an extra harvest come dandelion time. Chris ******************************************************* * Search the BEE-L archives at: * * http://listserv.albany.edu:8080/cgi-bin/wa?S1=bee-l * ******************************************************* ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2009 06:11:32 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Chris Slade Subject: National Bee Meetings MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I have been sent this by a friend who hasn't the time to lurk here. Chris "Interesting analysis. I believe it is not the technology that is at fault, as that simply operates functionally, objectively. The problem with everything humans do is the practice. In practice, pesticides are formulated, tested, approved, licensed and sold for commercial reasons. Nothing wrong with commercial motivation per se. Except that in practice it means people (not the 'system') doing things for short term gain regardless. In practice, pesticides have a shelf life of 20 - 80 years depending, so the manufacturers push for as many approved applications as possible, naturally, it makes commercial sense. In the hands of users, applications are then misused and abused. Take beekeepers and pyretheroids for instance. The correct method of application is short duration, high dose. How many beekeepers did it take, leaving strips in for months at a time to develop resistance? The small cell issue is a matter of practice. Beekeepers deliberately increased cell sizes in a bid to boost honey production for commercial gain. One side is sticking up for the technology regardless, because it works at the technical level and delivers profits. The other is arguing about the results of commercial motivation driving practice and the true costs we all have to bear after manufacturers have reaped profits - contamination, loss of biodiversity etc etc." ******************************************************* * Search the BEE-L archives at: * * http://listserv.albany.edu:8080/cgi-bin/wa?S1=bee-l * ******************************************************* ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2009 04:44:40 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Grant Gillard Subject: Re: FW: Honey bees home In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Chris Slade wrote:=A0 "suggested a donation to Bees for Development." =A0 I've likewise had some offers of "what do we owe you?"=A0 Mostly, these are= the people that understand bees, and ironically, these are the cases, like= Chris', where I didn't do anything but offer advice.=A0=20 =A0 For a while I was suggesting to the homeowners where I did extensive remova= ls that since I did something for them (which was a help to them) that they= in turn could help someone else.=A0 I gave them a small flyer with the add= ress of the Jackson Ministerial Alliance.=A0 It was an agency I could check= on.=A0 I even mentioned their donation was tax deductable. =A0 Only one person ever made a donation.=A0 He was a lawyer.=A0 Everyone else,= all smiles and gratitude for getting rid of the bees, didn't do anything. =A0 Grant Jackson, MO =A0 =A0=0A=0A=0A ******************************************************* * Search the BEE-L archives at: * * http://listserv.albany.edu:8080/cgi-bin/wa?S1=3Dbee-l * ******************************************************* ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2009 05:04:12 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Grant Gillard Subject: Re: FW: Honey bees home In-Reply-To: <985887.93924.qm@web57701.mail.re3.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I've had quite a few calls from "poor" neighborhoods, but the calls come fr= om landlords.=A0 Apparently, the tenants want the bees gone and coerce the = landlord to deal with the problem.=A0=20 =A0 Without trying to sound too judgmental, I'm not sure the "poor" really know= who to call and don't have the resources to take the next step.=A0 When I'= ve come on the scene to remove the bees, I do not pick up any sense that th= e "poor" want to co-exist with the bees!=A0 I've also come across a lot of = wasps and yellow jackets mistaken for honeybees.=A0 =A0 The majority of my removals have come from poorer neighborhoods because the= housing is older with more cavities exposed.=A0 Landlords=A0in this area a= re=A0not too motivated to maintain their rentals.=A0 The neighborhoods are = older with=A0mature, well-established trees with hollow cavities.=A0 The ne= wer neighborhoods are traditionally bull-dozed flat, the top soil is sold, = the trees piled up and=A0burned, tightly-built houses erected and spindly n= ew trees planted.=A0 That's not too bee friendly. =A0 Grant Jackson, MO =A0 =A0=0A=0A=0A ******************************************************* * Search the BEE-L archives at: * * http://listserv.albany.edu:8080/cgi-bin/wa?S1=3Dbee-l * ******************************************************* ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2009 22:24:01 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: ALDEN MARSHALL Subject: Re: FW: Honey bees home MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-1; reply-type=original Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit ----- Original Message ----- From: "Grant Gillard" bees flying around the apartment, we had sheet-rock dust covering everything, we had globs of honey and wax comb on the floor, and even though we lined the floor with newspaper, we had crumpled globs of newspaper sticking to our shoes. And to top it off, I had the "help" of the apartment owner. Not sure I should elaborate here but I will. Some preparation is in order here. 1. A tarp for floor cover and a good vac. 2. Liquid smoke is much more tolerable. Or a lemon scented very light syrup spray. 3. Once the colony is exposed and you don't want to vac up the bees. just open a window, hang a tarp over the exposed nest and return after dark with one of those red flood lights and finish the job. Alden M. ******************************************************* * Search the BEE-L archives at: * * http://listserv.albany.edu:8080/cgi-bin/wa?S1=bee-l * ******************************************************* ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2009 00:26:42 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: James Fischer Subject: Re: Disappearing Bees - Not CCD MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >> I tried feeding the observation hive... >> but they were not interested in any syrup. > Not taking feed is classic of nosema cerana. Agreed. This is the simple answer, the one that fits the list of symptoms described. > All the comb is dry, with no brood, no stores > of pollen or honey. As resources became more limited, less brood was raised. If you would have video taped the ob hive, you might have seen the queen laying in cells that would later found to have no egg or larvae. The bees would consume the eggs, knowing that there was no incoming nectar or pollen to raise brood. > There are no dead bees in the hive. One does have to wonder if a minimal set of bees and the queen absconded at the end of the process. No brood to keep them at home. ******************************************************* * Search the BEE-L archives at: * * http://listserv.albany.edu:8080/cgi-bin/wa?S1=bee-l * ******************************************************* ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2009 00:47:04 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: James Fischer Subject: Re: Dwindling MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >> a slow dwindling of the population... > I once tried introducing a strong nuc to that > comb and it also dwindled! I have started > burning such comb. I'm still going to vote "Nosema Ceranae". There are several approaches to decontaminating Nosema-ridden comb, give one or two a try before you toss out much more comb. Ridden? Infested? Infected? Contaminated? What do we call comb that needs to be treated thusly? ******************************************************* * Search the BEE-L archives at: * * http://listserv.albany.edu:8080/cgi-bin/wa?S1=bee-l * ******************************************************* ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2009 09:01:20 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Michael Palmer Subject: Re: Disappearing Bees - Not CCD In-Reply-To: <5985621.1231294793079.JavaMail.root@mswamui-blood.atl.sa.e arthlink.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed > Summer replacement is far better than re-queening in the spring > when the nature of the business is to prepare for the honey > flow. One mistake and that unit is no longer a production unit > for this season. Two days devoid of egg production and you are > short 3,000 or more foraging workers. So, yes by all means, > re-queen after the spring honey flow and feed during the dearth to > stimulate brood rearing. >Tim I've found that an even better plan is to split up the non-productive colonies into nucs at the time you would be requeening...after that main flow. You can usually get 4-6 nucs from these non-producers. Often they will yield additional frames of bees and brood...thinking swarm control here...which can be used for making more nucs or boosting weak colonies. In the spring, you have your replacement bees with young queens...or you could say you have replacement queens with attached bees. Whatever...you won't have to split up your strong honey producers to equalize your dinks or for re-stocking dead outs. You have queens for early spring requeening. Also, these nucs are repositories for your new queens. Their best year is the year following mating...Brother Adam. They'll be ready to explode come spring. I figure the odds are way better wintering 4-6 nucs with new queens, than wintering 1 colony with a new queen. Mike ******************************************************* * Search the BEE-L archives at: * * http://listserv.albany.edu:8080/cgi-bin/wa?S1=bee-l * ******************************************************* ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2009 09:15:21 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Chris Slade Subject: Re: Dwindling MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 07/01/2009 13:18:32 GMT Standard Time, bee-quick@BEE-QUICK.COM writes: Ridden? Infested? Infected? Contaminated? What do we call comb that needs to be treated thusly? Firelighters, candles, polish, filler, encaustic art material, swarm bait, soap, cosmetics, salves - the list is endless. Chris ******************************************************* * Search the BEE-L archives at: * * http://listserv.albany.edu:8080/cgi-bin/wa?S1=bee-l * ******************************************************* ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2009 09:16:20 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Chris Slade Subject: Re: Dwindling MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 07/01/2009 13:18:32 GMT Standard Time, bee-quick@BEE-QUICK.COM writes: There are several approaches to decontaminating Nosema-ridden comb, Does Nosema ceranae contaminate the comb? How? Chris ******************************************************* * Search the BEE-L archives at: * * http://listserv.albany.edu:8080/cgi-bin/wa?S1=bee-l * ******************************************************* ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2009 10:02:52 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Lloyd Spear Subject: Dwindling MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Jim suggests the ocassional dwindling I see may be caused by Nosema Cerana and suggests I check before destroying more comb. That has ocurred to me. However, in each of the past two years I have been diligent about making fall bee collections by yard and sending them to Beltsville. They have reported 'no nosema', which astounds me. I am careful to collect crawlers as well as bees from the brood nest. 50 miles away is a commercial migratory beekeeper who gets reports of *millions* per bee. But then, he is migratory and goes to FL and ME every year. To me, this is truly a minor problem. Perhaps 1-2 observation hives a year, plus 3-4 production hives. On the other hand, I started beekeeping in the late 60's and never saw such symptoms before Varroa. Someone questioned what I meant by 'contaminated comb'. I meant contamination with fluvalinate and coumaphous. Although I no longer use either, I did for several years and it will be several more years before my hives are free of combs used during that period. In the last two years I had bees draw about 1200 deep combs, but with about 200 hives I have a ways to go in replacing comb. Lloyd ******************************************************* * Search the BEE-L archives at: * * http://listserv.albany.edu:8080/cgi-bin/wa?S1=bee-l * ******************************************************* ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2009 10:31:33 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Michael Palmer Subject: Re: Dwindling In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed > They have reported 'no nosema', which astounds me. I am >careful to collect crawlers as well as bees from the brood nest. Bees from the broodnest are probably not the bees to gather for N ceranae check. Rather, you should be collecting older field bees. Block up the entrance, and collect field bees as they gather at the entrance. Mike ******************************************************* * Search the BEE-L archives at: * * http://listserv.albany.edu:8080/cgi-bin/wa?S1=bee-l * ******************************************************* ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2009 12:29:48 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Aaron Morris Subject: FW: [BEE-L] Dwindling MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: randysbees@gmail.com [mailto:randysbees@gmail.com] On Behalf Of randy oliver >Does Nosema ceranae contaminate the comb? How? N apis clearly contaminates the comb when confined bees defecate within the hive. N ceranae does not typically cause such dysentery. I haven't yet seen any study that has shown the N ceranae contaminates the comb, as does N apis. It very well may, but haven't seen supporting evidence. Dr Raquel Martin-Hernandez found spores in corbicular pollen, so it might persist in stored pollen. Randy Oliver ******************************************************* * Search the BEE-L archives at: * * http://listserv.albany.edu:8080/cgi-bin/wa?S1=bee-l * ******************************************************* ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2009 12:42:32 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Chris Slade Subject: Re: FW: [BEE-L] Dwindling In-Reply-To: <6999718ED3E19D4AA061F73254EEA341061D5A32@UAEXCH.univ.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Dr Raquel Martin-Hernandez found spores in corbicular pollen, so it might persist in stored pollen. Was it, I wonder, on the pollen when collected or,(more likely in my view) in the regurgited nectar used to moisten and bind the pollen for easy transport in the corbicula? Chris ******************************************************* * Search the BEE-L archives at: * * http://listserv.albany.edu:8080/cgi-bin/wa?S1=bee-l * ******************************************************* ________________________________________________________________________ AOL Email goes Mobile! You can now read your AOL Emails whilst on the move. Sign up for a free AOL Email account with unlimited storage today. ******************************************************* * Search the BEE-L archives at: * * http://listserv.albany.edu:8080/cgi-bin/wa?S1=bee-l * ******************************************************* ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2009 17:56:40 -0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Peter Edwards Subject: Re: FW: [BEE-L] Dwindling MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > I haven't yet seen any study that has shown the N ceranae contaminates > the comb, as does N apis. It very well may, but haven't seen supporting > evidence. > Randy Oliver Given the amount of work done so far on CCD and comb contamination, presumably someone has been checking for N ceranae spores? Best wishes Peter Edwards beekeepers at stratford-upon-avon.freeserve.co.uk www.stratford-upon-avon.freeserve.co.uk/ ******************************************************* * Search the BEE-L archives at: * * http://listserv.albany.edu:8080/cgi-bin/wa?S1=bee-l * ******************************************************* ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2009 18:18:44 +0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Gavin Ramsay Subject: Re: FW: [BEE-L] Dwindling MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hello Peter, Randy, Chris and the Subscribers > presumably someone has been checking for N ceranae spores? Theoretically, if N ceranae spores get from the GI tract into corbicular pollen via regurgitated nectar, in a warmish environment spores would appear on the comb from the gut of water carriers? Gavin ******************************************************* * Search the BEE-L archives at: * * http://listserv.albany.edu:8080/cgi-bin/wa?S1=bee-l * ******************************************************* ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2009 16:11:05 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "J. Waggle" Subject: Re: Disappearing Bees - Not CCD In-Reply-To: <3459207DC1C84402B040C6B2D3A016D3@bige953ca8f8be> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit >>> I tried feeding the observation hive... >>> but they were not interested in any syrup. > >> Not taking feed is classic of nosema cerana. > >Agreed. >This is the simple answer, the one that fits the >list of symptoms described. Interesting, please produce reference material for ‘not taking feed is classic of NC‘. I would like to suggest also, that we resist the urge to categorically ‘rule out’ other causes. Therefore I am going to disagree with the ‘one that fits‘ comment, in favor of suggesting we adopt a more ambiguous “one of several” that may fit diagnosis. There are many reasons why bees sometimes wont take feed. Maybe Grant can confirm or deny. But I will stick my neck out here and hope to confirm my statement by making a confident prediction. I believe the reason why the syrup wasn’t taken was because feeding wasn’t started during the early stages of this event. ONLY after dwindling was under way, and stress observed in the colony was feeding started. I will retract and yield to considering the N.C. analysis if Grant says ‘he has been feeding all along’ or ‘he has been feeding before dwindling and reduction of brood symptoms appeared‘. Why do I consider the timing of feeding important? When colonies begin to fail due to any environmental influence, there begins a change, -stresses from the failing brood nest creates a stress of its own, this stress creates different stresses and so fourth, impacting colony functions, with the colony needing to constantly adjust division of labor as stresses accumulate. Severely stressed and dwindling colonies can reach a point of disarray, where they can no longer mount an efficient and effective division of labor. Colony functions once considered vital to the colony, may no longer have the priority they once had, OR the colony may lack the capability needed to perform them. Remembering the great Brother Adam, and I think Bevan also stated that a honeybee colony is a living organism. A colony at this stage of decline is no doubt a distressed organism, and distressed organisms do not function properly. What do distressed and dying organisms do?,,, they end up needing to cut other functions and resort to keeping the heart and brain of the organism beating, which in honeybees is what?,,, "the brood nest". IMO, it is not surprising that the bees in the observation hive ignored the syrup, because this was perhaps no longer determined by the colony to be a vital and necessary function. Assuming here, that tending, feeding and keeping brood and queen warm would take priority over accessing the syrup, even if it means certain death to the colony. Therefore, we must consider that this symptom has nothing to do with the cause of the event, and more to do with the ‘art of dying. I recall the devastating losses during the winter of 95-96 when we tried to save the last remaining colony in my operation by installing it in the OB hive the heated bee house. The colony, was determined on keeping the broodnest heart and brain functioning, and it did not mount effective division of labor to access any syrup that we provided. We resorted to feeding directly to the bees in the broodnest with an eye dropper. As Shepard wrote about ‘bi-directional selection’. We must also be wary that symptoms can be ‘bi-directional’ in how we choose to interpret them. Best Wishes, Joe ******************************************************* * Search the BEE-L archives at: * * http://listserv.albany.edu:8080/cgi-bin/wa?S1=bee-l * ******************************************************* ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2009 11:59:00 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Nick Behrens Subject: Iowa spray law change. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline What does the list think of this? To far, not far enough? In Iowa, registration of bee's is voluntary. I personally find the hours interesting, also no strict definition of bloom (any to 100%?). Do any othe= r states, or countries have similar wording? Again, this mainly effects soybean plants which flower from mid July to first or second week of August depending on your area. Nick (Taken from a word document.) *NOTICES *IAB 12/17/08 *ARC 7432B* *AGRICULTURE AND LAND STEWARDSHIP DEPARTMENT[21]* *Notice of Intended Action* *Twenty-five interested persons, a governmental subdivision, an agency or association of 25 or more* *persons may demand an oral presentation hereon as provided in Iowa Code section 17A.4(1)**"b."* *Notice is also given to the public that the Administrative Rules Review Committee may, on its own* *motion or on written request by any individual or group, review this proposed action under section* *17A.8(6) at a regular or special meeting where the public or interested persons may be heard.* Pursuant to the authority of Iowa Code section 206.19, the Iowa Department of Agriculture and Land Stewardship hereby gives Notice of Intended Action to amend Chapter 45= , "Pesticides," Iowa Administrative Code. This proposed rule making rewrites the existing rule related to the application of pesticides near bees. Commercial pesticide applicators spraying within one mile of a registered apiary shall not spray between 8 a.m. and 6 p.m. Commercial pesticide applicators will need to keep record= s of the time pesticide application began and ended. Any interested party may make written comments or suggestions on the proposed amendments until 4:30 p.m. on January 7, 2009. Written comments should be sent to Margaret Thomson, Department of Agriculture and Land Stewardship, Wallace State Office Building, 502 East Ninth Street, Des Moines, Iowa 50319; or faxed to (515)281-6236. E-mail comments may be sent to Margaret.Thomson@IowaAgriculture.gov. A public hearing will be held on January 7, 2009, at 2 p.m. in the Second Floor Conference Room, Wallace State Office Building, Des Moines, Iowa 50319. No waiver provision is included in these proposed amendments. However, the Department's general waiver provisions, found at 21=97Chapter 8, would apply. These amendments are intended to implement Iowa Code sections 206.6 and 206.19. The following amendments are proposed. ITEM 1. Adopt the following *new *paragraph *45.26(3)"i"*: *i. *Time pesticide application begins and ends. ITEM 2. Rescind rule 21=9745.31(206) and adopt the following *new *rule in lieu thereof: *21=9745.31(206) Application of pesticides toxic to bees.* *45.31(1) *Owners of apiaries, in order to protect their bees from pesticid= e applications, shall register the location of their apiaries with the state apiarist. Registration shall be on forms provided by the department. The registration expires December 31 each year and may be renewed the following year. *45.31(2) *Between 8 a.m. and 6 p.m., a commercial applicator shall not apply to blooming crops pesticides labeled as toxic to bees when the commercial applicator is located within one mile of a registered apiary. A commercial applicator shall be responsible for maintaining the one-mile distance from apiaries that are registered and listed on the sensitive crop registry on the first day of each month. This rule is intended to implement Iowa Code sections 206.6(5)*"a"*(3) and 206.19(2). ******************************************************* * Search the BEE-L archives at: * * http://listserv.albany.edu:8080/cgi-bin/wa?S1=3Dbee-l * ******************************************************* ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2009 20:43:16 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Peter Dillon Subject: Re: Iowa spray law change. In-Reply-To: <9a25bd2c0901070959i7abb3865q8f452e386ba614ee@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit "8 a.m. and 6 p.m. Commercial pesticide applicators will need to keep records of the time pesticide" Taking the wording of the above into account. Presumably spraying may legally take place before and after the time period mentioned. BUT, I have yet to hear the "clocking off" siren in an apiary. I understand that older beekeepers have the reputation to be slightly deaf and this may explain the above comment. Since when have foraging bees regulated their activities using subjective time periods as created by Humans? Peter PEI ******************************************************* * Search the BEE-L archives at: * * http://listserv.albany.edu:8080/cgi-bin/wa?S1=bee-l * ******************************************************* ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2009 16:50:28 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "J. Waggle" Subject: Re: Disappearing Bees - Not CCD In-Reply-To: <3459207DC1C84402B040C6B2D3A016D3@bige953ca8f8be> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Lionel Evans wrote: The ones that were there did not produce any > nectar. Lionel, I’m from Western Pennsylvania. We had what appeared to be abundant Locust bloom in 2008, but the bloom did not produce. Most beekeepers here blamed the weather. When the weather finally turned favorable, petals were starting to fall. But the Locust bloom was so abundant, and the lack of surplus so devastating in its form, I am not ruling out the possibility of some stress factor such as perhaps virus or pesticides, might be hindering the foraging capabilities of honeybees. Our inspector, whos opinion I hold in high regard, states that it appears to be caused by weather/bloom related, and not disease related. He stated that he has seen the same symptoms in the hundreds of colonies that he has inspected and or keeps. This has been a continuing problem with early blooms recently. I feel I must resort to changing my management style, the plan this season is to shake all the colonies into singles and super above that restricting the queen from moving up and making splits with the remainder of brood. This will hinder colony expansion, but with the abundant population of bees at that time of the year being reassigned to foraging, and nowhere else to store incoming nectar but above the bottom deep, I should be able to get surplus, and build them back to 2 deeps after Locust and Tulip for the fall flow. Best Wishes, Joe ******************************************************* * Search the BEE-L archives at: * * http://listserv.albany.edu:8080/cgi-bin/wa?S1=bee-l * ******************************************************* ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2009 21:00:24 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Peter Dillon Subject: Re: Iowa spray law change. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Relating to my earlier mail - the quote I included was truncated and should have been more complete. Please refer to the following and then relate to my comments. "Commercial pesticide applicators spraying within one mile of a registered apiary shall not spray between 8 a.m. and 6 p.m. Commercial pesticide applicators will need to keep records of the time pesticide application began and ended." Apologies, Peter ******************************************************* * Search the BEE-L archives at: * * http://listserv.albany.edu:8080/cgi-bin/wa?S1=bee-l * ******************************************************* ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2009 20:09:39 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Chris Slade Subject: Re: Deaf Beekeepers MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 08/01/2009 00:44:35 GMT Standard Time, pdillon1@ROGERS.COM writes: I understand that older beekeepers have the reputation to be slightly deaf and this may explain the above comment. This has been worrying me for some time. At gatherings of beekeepers an amazingly high proportion seem to be wearing hearing aids. Is this because of some as yet unrecorded side effect of bee-stings or of honey consumption or is it that beekeepers tend to live longer than most folk and thus display evidence of the aging process? Chris ******************************************************* * Search the BEE-L archives at: * * http://listserv.albany.edu:8080/cgi-bin/wa?S1=bee-l * ******************************************************* ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2009 22:22:39 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Darrell Subject: Re: Deaf Beekeepers In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v753) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On 7-Jan-09, at 8:09 PM, Chris Slade wrote: > > > This has been worrying me for some time. At gatherings of > beekeepers an > amazingly high proportion seem to be wearing hearing aids. Is this > because of > some as yet unrecorded side effect of bee-stings or of honey > consumption or is > it that beekeepers tend to live longer than most folk and thus > display evidence > of the aging process Hi Chris and all 30 years working in hydro electric plants and high voltage switchyards, followed up with 5 years working within a few feet of airport runways and taxiways followed by 10 years of my wife saying that the TV is too loud are my reasons for having hearing aids. Even she has never blamed my bees. Maybe its my age Bob Darrell Caledon Ontario Canada 44N80W > ******************************************************* * Search the BEE-L archives at: * * http://listserv.albany.edu:8080/cgi-bin/wa?S1=bee-l * *******************************************************