From MAILER-DAEMON Sat Feb 28 11:06:44 2009 Return-Path: <> X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.8 (2007-02-13) on industrial X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-90.3 required=2.4 tests=AWL,MAILTO_TO_SPAM_ADDR, SPF_HELO_PASS,USER_IN_WHITELIST autolearn=disabled version=3.1.8 X-Original-To: adamf@IBIBLIO.ORG Delivered-To: adamf@IBIBLIO.ORG Received: from listserv.albany.edu (unknown [169.226.1.24]) by metalab.unc.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2801049051 for ; Sat, 28 Feb 2009 11:03:38 -0500 (EST) Received: from listserv.albany.edu (listserv.albany.edu [169.226.1.24]) by listserv.albany.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id n1SG3YWd017258 for ; Sat, 28 Feb 2009 11:03:37 -0500 (EST) Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2009 11:03:36 -0500 From: "University at Albany LISTSERV Server (14.5)" Subject: File: "BEE-L LOG0901E" To: adamf@IBIBLIO.ORG Message-ID: Content-Length: 47597 Lines: 1124 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 10:24:59 -0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Mike Thurlow Subject: Re: Partial ban on Neonicotinoids by One major Food Retailer in the UK MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi All, Feel compelled to respond to yesterdays posts, particularly the report below. =20 *********** =20 =93The question of bee mortality and these pesticides was discussed at a recent meeting and at the 10th International Symposium of the = International Commission for Plant-Bee Relationships on Hazards of Pesticides to Bees = on 8-10 October 2008. At present there is no evidence that the approvals = need to be amended on the crops and at the rates used in the UK, but we will continue to keep the situation under review. =20 In addition, the Government's wildlife incident investigation scheme reviewed a number of bee deaths reported to it this summer. No = neonicotinoid pesticides were detected during analysis of the bee bodies. =20 At this point in time there is no evidence to suggest that reported = losses of UK honeybee colonies are related to pesticide applications (see = response to PQ 5369 07/08). Consequently the Secretary of State has not asked = either PSD or the ACP to investigate these reports. =20 Reports of colony losses are being investigated as a high priority, and there may be a number of factors involved. Additional funds of = =A3120,000 (=A390,000 from DEFRA and =A330,000 from the Welsh Assembly Government) have been allocated to the National Bee Unit to expand the investigations they started last year into significant bee losses and to meet the demand for increased inspections of bee imports.=94 Huw Irranca-Davies House of Commons Hansard, Daily Debates 29 Oct 2008 =20 ************ =20 I have been reporting numerous significant bee deaths from my bees here = in the UK since 2002, the government agency DEFRA have never provided any satisfactory answers. Usual response, as with 2008 losses (late May) is =93cause of death uncertain=94. =20 Local rape seed was dressed with IMD and I requested some emphasis be = put in this direction during their investigation, which I copied to my local MP = as we were already in communication concerning problems facing UK = beekeepers. Within a few days I had two other government agencies on the phone = giving me hassle on totally unrelated honey issues, which still puzzles me !!!! = They politely went away when I told them my bees were dying big time and I = was pretty busy. =20 Personally, seeing is believing,=85. well almost. I have queried the = detection levels used by DEFRA and am informed the LOD for neonicotinoids is = 0.0003 micrograms per bee. According to my maths (based upon info gleaned from = the Bee Press) this nowhere near the danger zone for honey bees. =20 Perhaps someone will put this one straight for me ? =20 What=92s certain is there is (was) very little financial support in the = UK for any serious bee death investigation, (we are not important enough,.. = until the general public is seen to be on our side) so I welcome the = Cooperative initiative, on the radio interview their spokesman stated they had been unable to find anyone to give the money to, (one could say =93who would = take the money=94). =20 Getting everyone concerned to sit around the table and thrash out these issues will always be a minefield, too many conflicts of interest. =20 I wonder if the phone will ring soon !!!!! =20 Regards =20 Mike Thurlow=20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 ******************************************************* * Search the BEE-L archives at: * * http://listserv.albany.edu:8080/cgi-bin/wa?S1=3Dbee-l * ******************************************************* ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 05:20:22 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: C Hooper Subject: Call for Papers for Apitherapy Conference in Germany Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Call for Papers for Apitherapy Conference in Germany http://apitherapy.blogspot.com/2009/01/call-for-papers-for-apitherapy.html What: The 7th German Apitherapy Congress, Expo and Workshops with International Participation When: March 26-31, 2009 Where: Passau, Germany, Hotel IBB Note: This information is exclusive to Apitherapy News. ******************************************************* * Search the BEE-L archives at: * * http://listserv.albany.edu:8080/cgi-bin/wa?S1=bee-l * ******************************************************* ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2009 19:24:47 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: randy oliver Subject: Re: "A Spring Without Bees" In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > >Schacker goes on to say that the group has suppressed the French > report which has all the proof we need. Unfortunately, it's in French > so who knows what it says. I just went through the summary. It was a review of studies, many conflicting. The authors were very, very cautious. " don't read French, and rely on Google translate. The summary is based upon calculations of wide ranging levels of pesticides extrapolated from pollen and nectar data. Here is an example for corn: "Regarding the strengths in the corn pollen, validated data show average levels of imidacloprid 0.75 and 3.5 ppb for pollen of flowers and trapping respectively." Here is the translation of the final paragraph of the summary: "In the present state of knowledge, according to the scenarios developed to evaluate exposure and the uncertainty factors selected to assess the hazards, PEC / PNEC obtained are of concern. They are consistent with observations Field reported by beekeepers in many areas crops (maize, sunflower) on the mortality of foraging (scenario 4), their disappearance, their behavioral disorders and some winter mortality (scenario 5). Accordingly, the seed coating sunflower Gaucho (R) led to a risk significant for bees of different ages, with the exception of the ingestion of pollen by the foraging at the making of balls (scenario 3). Regarding the coating Gaucho (R) seed corn, the PEC / PNEC is, like sunflowers, worrying in the context of consumption pollen by nurses, which could lead to increased mortality from these and be a part of the explanation for the weakening of bee populations still observed despite the prohibition of Gaucho (R) on sunflowers. Finally, given that other factors may contribute to the weakening of colonies of bees, should be continued research on the frequency, mechanisms and causes of these symptoms." My take on my reading of the translated document is to read the last sentence above. Basically, the authors did not come to any definitive conclusion, and used a lot of "coulds" and "mays." Randy Oliver ******************************************************* * Search the BEE-L archives at: * * http://listserv.albany.edu:8080/cgi-bin/wa?S1=bee-l * ******************************************************* ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 19:55:27 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Peter L Borst Subject: Nosema, not Gaucho, blamed in France MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit http://www.juragricole.com/news/categoryfront.php/id/21/Apiculture.html [Translated by Google and tidied up a bit by me] Request for Waiver for Fumidil B To save the bee population of the Jura Region of France. 29 January 2009 Following the deplorable catastrophic loss in the Jura region's hives coming out of the winter of 2008, Raymond Borneck, president of the "syndicat apicole" and apiary health defense group of Jura, sent a letter to the departmental directorate of veterinary services. Co-signed by Frédéric Pozet, the veterinarian responsible for the health of livestock, the letter refers to the loss of bees in the winter 2008 and request an exemption allowing the use of B Fumidil in the fight against Nosema ceranae. "It is evident that these losses have many reasons and can not be attributed to one factor such as the abnormal development of the ectoparasite Varroa jacobsoni against which we have tried through the operation of the PSE to get beekeepers to use the most effective treatments that have a marketing authorization (AMM). "Furthermore, as president, I visited some thirty beekeepers to see the appearance of the mortality: hives full of honey and pollen and a few dead bees in the hive making it difficult to collect sufficient samples for analysis. This observation is like what our American colleagues called Colony Collapse Disorder (CDD). The situation is similar in many countries. As described in the letter, even with the correct treatment of varroa, losses can be very serious ... " "On the other hand, in 2007, already, losses ocurred in areas of the Jura which used little or no pesticides in agriculture which makes unlikely the involvement of agents such as the famous "Regent" and "Gaucho." "We had worked to get the equipment in the Laboratory for PCR analysis. With this we could confirm in the Jura region, the initial analysis made by the Spanish laboratory Marchamalo of the presence of Nosema ceranae of which we now know the incredible pathogenicity to honeybees. "Unfortunately, tests are very expensive and without any subsidy we have been able to achieve too small a number. We were promised free virus analysis on the same samples from the AFSSA laboratory. But they came back on this offer. "We believe that Nosema ceranae is a major pathogen responsible for the deaths of hives. " "The only active ingredient effective in the fight against nosema is the antibiotic Fumidil B based on fumagillin, which is prohibited due to lack of marketing authorization in the European Union. The EU allows states to apply for exemption as did Spain and England. "The absence of a decision by the French government does little to the analysis, especially as we have used this product on a large scale, there are over 30 years to fight against Nosema apis, with a total success. Should we let the bees perish without seeking solutions to their demise? -- Peter L Borst ******************************************************* * Search the BEE-L archives at: * * http://listserv.albany.edu:8080/cgi-bin/wa?S1=bee-l * ******************************************************* ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2009 15:44:07 GMT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "waldig@netzero.net" Subject: Re: NYC beekeeping Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit >>I kept bees in NYC for about 7 years - defiantly, I guess. I didn't even know it was illegal until a couple years into it. John Howe showed me his rooftop apiary several years ago. At that time, I'd only heard of only 3 or 4 other NYC beekeepers. It's quite a nice set-up. There is a photo in a recent ABJ article on city beekeeping. >>Now I've lost my rooftop access - so this spring I moved them upstate. Beekeeping in NYC may not be legal but many New Yorkers are pro-bee. I'll bet you if you post a free ad on craigs list looking for a roof site to keep your bees you'll get many responses. Waldemar ******************************************************* * Search the BEE-L archives at: * * http://listserv.albany.edu:8080/cgi-bin/wa?S1=bee-l * ******************************************************* ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2009 06:57:47 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bill T Subject: Mercury in HFCS MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit http://uk.reuters.com/article/healthNews/idUKTRE50Q5IA20090127 >From the article-" In one study, published in the journal Environmental Health, former Food and Drug Administration scientist Renee Dufault and colleagues tested 20 samples of high fructose corn syrup and found detectable mercury in nine of the 20 samples." The corn producers challenge the findings, but interesting since the process that introduced mercury was not ended until 2005. Bill Truesdell Bath, Maine ******************************************************* * Search the BEE-L archives at: * * http://listserv.albany.edu:8080/cgi-bin/wa?S1=bee-l * ******************************************************* ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2009 11:04:40 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Jerry Bromenshenk Subject: Re: Nosema, not Gaucho, blamed in France MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit My associate Dr. Colin Henderson was approached by representatives of the French beekeeping and Grower industries at the Ent Soc Meetings in Dec, 2007. They came over to hear the CCD Panel. They've been in communications with us for more than a year - their problem is that despite bans on some of the newer pesticides, they continue to lose bees, and they're looking elsewhere for answers. Jerry **************From Wall Street to Main Street and everywhere in between, stay up-to-date with the latest news. (http://aol.com?ncid=emlcntaolcom00000023) ******************************************************* * Search the BEE-L archives at: * * http://listserv.albany.edu:8080/cgi-bin/wa?S1=bee-l * ******************************************************* ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2009 13:33:25 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Aaron Morris Subject: FW: Pesticides in honey - USDA survey MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit This came to me from a well-known beekeeper in Maine. Interesting reading! This my be of interest to BEE-L folks (page 24, Appendix B, Appendix D, Appendix 1 part 3. Dicloran (DCNA), Dicofol and Vinclozolin were interesting. I'm not sure if Dicofol is beekeeper input or a result of crop pollination. Other materials are beekeeper inputs (Amitraz, Coumaphos, Fluvalinate). Basically, honey is pretty clean. I didn't see anything on antibiotics. http://www.ams.usda.gov/AMSv1.0/getfile?dDocName=STELPRDC5074338 ******************************************************* * Search the BEE-L archives at: * * http://listserv.albany.edu:8080/cgi-bin/wa?S1=bee-l * ******************************************************* ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2009 15:36:47 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Aaron Morris Subject: 3 weeks to SABA Seminar 2009 at UAlbany MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit The Southern Adirondack Beekeepers Association will present ... S.A.B.A.'s 2009 Beekeeping Seminar Speakers and Topics: Jennifer Berry of the University of Georgia : Sub-lethal Levels of Miticides linger in the Hive, IPM vs. Small Hive Beetles Dr. Ernesto Guzman of the University of Guelph: Africanized Honey Bees and Their Impact on Honey Statistics, Mortality Causes of Over-wintered Colonies Dr. Medhat Nasr of Crop Diversification Centre North, Alberta: Varroa Control: Putting the Pieces Together for Successful Mite Control, Bee Health and Colony Kill: Beekeepers' Blues Presentations will run consecutively.  Raffle drawings held at 4:45. Date and time: Saturday February 21 9:00 A.M. - 5:00 P.M. Location: Lecture Center One at UAlbany (University at Albany), 1400 Washington Ave., Albany NY. (Same place as in 2003 - 2008). Cost: $30 if pre-registered by 2/11.  This includes refreshment breaks.  (Lunch is available nearby.) Walk-ins are welcome at a cost of $40 each. Friday night Dinner: There will be a get-together dinner at a nearby restaurant the night before the seminar. Speakers usually attend. (Please mark your registration and send $30 deposit.) Hotels: 3 hotels are extremely close by: Marriott Courtyard (518-435-1600), 1455 Washington Ave.; Marriott Fairfield (518-435-1800), 1383 Washington Ave.; and Best Western Sovereign (518-963-7666), 1228 Western Ave. Questions: Anne Frey SABA@capital.net Use seminar in the subject line, or call 518-895-8744. www.adirondackbees.org ******************************************************* * Search the BEE-L archives at: * * http://listserv.albany.edu:8080/cgi-bin/wa?S1=bee-l * ******************************************************* ******************************************************* * Search the BEE-L archives at: * * http://listserv.albany.edu:8080/cgi-bin/wa?S1=bee-l * ******************************************************* ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2009 23:26:23 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: =?UTF-8?Q?Peter_L_Borst?= Subject: Re: "A Spring Without Bees" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Greetings I have obtained a very long paper from Germany which discusses the losses in France and the report that Schacker refers to in his book. I will quote very briefly from the report. Anyone who wants more info is welcome to write to me directly > the French Minister for Agriculture commissioned a report on the reasons for and the extent of the damage. The report published in 2003 is not suitable for supporting the beekeepers’ demand for a ban on the registration of products containing imidacloprid. It contains only a huge amount of toxicological data regarding imidacloprid and bees and different theoretical scenarios about the possible origin of the bee losses in France. All tests under practical conditions are excluded from the evaluation. Any data about real losses of honeybee populations and the reduction of honey yields are missing. A synopsis of the poisoning incidents in honeybee populations by plant protection products in Germany makes evident that these damages have been declining for about 20 years. submitted by Peter L Borst ******************************************************* * Search the BEE-L archives at: * * http://listserv.albany.edu:8080/cgi-bin/wa?S1=bee-l * ******************************************************* ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2009 11:03:02 -0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Mike Rowbottom Subject: Re: Postings to Bee-L In-Reply-To: <3dcef4a10901281001v2229205ft7b75cbfac672ad7f@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >-----Original Message----- >From: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu [mailto:BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu] On Behalf Of randy oliver >Sent: 28 January 2009 18:02 >Pete, this is the Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology. >This is not a forum for beginners. This forum is a place where beginners and others can be voyeurs, and listen to Informed Discussion of esoterica. >Or even join in. >There are other lists for beginners. >Pete, please continue with the esoterica. Your posts stretch our thinking. >This is the place to do so. >Randy Oliver Hmmmmm Can we please have some more clarity about who is welcome to post to this moderated list? Are there to be some objective, measurable criteria for posters, such as n years commercial experience, FRES qualification, holder of two or more degrees in biology, resident in the USA etc., or is it to be self-determined by and for those who judge they have the most important stuff to say, or is it to continue to be available to a wide audience of beekeepers with a wide range of experiences in many countries ? While accepting that there are other fora for real beginners, do we not wish to retain a fuller participating audience here? Regards to all Mike Rowbottom (now classified as a humble "Other voyeur") HARROGATE North Yorkshire UK ******************************************************* * Search the BEE-L archives at: * * http://listserv.albany.edu:8080/cgi-bin/wa?S1=bee-l * ******************************************************* ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2009 07:45:16 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bill T Subject: Re: Postings to Bee-L In-Reply-To: <200901311103.JJY19195@C2bthomr05.btconnect.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Hmmmmm > > Can we please have some more clarity about who is welcome to post to this > moderated list? > ******************************************************* > * Search the BEE-L archives at: * > * http://listserv.albany.edu:8080/cgi-bin/wa?S1=bee-l * The archives are your friend. Type in "FAQ". The purpose of the BeeL is right there. Bill Truesdell Bath, Maine ******************************************************* * Search the BEE-L archives at: * * http://listserv.albany.edu:8080/cgi-bin/wa?S1=bee-l * ******************************************************* ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2009 05:29:05 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Mike Stoops Subject: Re: Postings to Bee-L In-Reply-To: <200901311103.JJY19195@C2bthomr05.btconnect.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable As an educator I always taught that a stupid question was the question not = asked.=A0 If it is a question previously addressed here, then we need to ed= ucate the questioner in the intricacies of how to query the archives for an= answer before posting the question to the group.=A0 In fact, thinking abou= t it, it might be a good idea to post a detailed directive on how to use th= e archives once a month for all the new membership that has come on-board s= ince the last posting of the archive directive. To me, BEE-L is not a restrictive forum when the subject pertains to beekee= ping and all its myriad facets.=A0 Personally, BEE-L is one list that I rec= ommend to all the newbees with whom I converse.=A0 And, I try to teach them= how to use the archives myself in our discussions.=A0=A0=20 Isn't BEE-L a list to educate and illuminate?=A0 A list to explore new thou= ghts and concepts?=A0 A list to spread the good word concerning beekeeping?= =A0=20 =A0Mike in LA=20 --- On Sat, 1/31/09, Mike Rowbottom wrote: >From: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu [mailto:BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu] On Behalf Of randy oliver >Sent: 28 January 2009 18:02 >Pete, this is the Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology= . >This is not a forum for beginners. This forum is a place where beginners and others can be voyeurs, and listen to Informed Discussion of esoterica. >Or even join in. >There are other lists for beginners. =0A=0A=0A ******************************************************* * Search the BEE-L archives at: * * http://listserv.albany.edu:8080/cgi-bin/wa?S1=3Dbee-l * ******************************************************* ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2009 08:45:26 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "=?windows-1252?Q?J._Waggle?=" Subject: Re: Postings to Bee-L Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit >> Hmmmmm >> >> Can we please have some more clarity about who is welcome to post to this >> moderated list? I see no restrictions on the rules of the list, so all who wish to engage in informed discussion must be welcome to post. IMO, there is a major problem on this list with wannabe moderators interjecting their efforts to exclude, and welcome off list those they feel are not qualified, and this, is perhaps the root of the problem which hinders informed discussion. These wannabe moderators, perhaps themselves need informed, that this is the job of the moderator, and they should keep their opinions to themselves. Joe ******************************************************* * Search the BEE-L archives at: * * http://listserv.albany.edu:8080/cgi-bin/wa?S1=bee-l * ******************************************************* ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2009 09:23:55 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "=?windows-1252?Q?J._Waggle?=" Subject: Re: Postings to Bee-L Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Mike Stoops wrote: >If it is a question previously addressed here, then we need to educate the questioner in the intricacies of how to query the archives for an answer before posting the question to the group. I agree, but I disagree with those that respond to a posted question by saying ‘refer to the archives’ or ‘google it’ . IF they take the time to respond in the first place, IMO they should give a brief answer followed by a ‘refer to the archives’ for further info, or keep their nose out of it. >From my observation, I would say that over 90 percent of the topics discussed here have been discussed before in one form or another on bee- L. Now wouldn’t it be boring if all those questions were simply answered with ‘look in the archives’? We would be reduced to posting abstracts if this were the strict rule. And I will say, that I have been seeing ALLOT of REPEATS of abstracts posted on bee-L that are known to be already in the archives, -which, could this be assumed to be neglect of proper use of the archives, that they have posted repeat material? >In fact, thinking about it, it might be a good idea to post a detailed directive on how to use the archives once a month for all the new membership that has come on-board since the last posting of the archive directive. That is a great idea! Also, it would be good for beekeepers to get together and set up beekeeping search engine that includes the ‘1000 best informative beekeeping sites‘, as selected by a panel of experienced queen breeders, commercial beekeepers, bee scientists, organic beekeepers etc. There is a function in Google to permit this: http://www.google.com/coop/cse/ On a custom search engine such as this, you can be assured that the new bee will find answers from quality informative sites that are recommended by the best in the business. To send a new bee out on their own into the wild internet for their information, is IMO, dooming them to a high instance of failure, due to the immense proportion of inferior information out there. Best Wishes, Joe ******************************************************* * Search the BEE-L archives at: * * http://listserv.albany.edu:8080/cgi-bin/wa?S1=bee-l * ******************************************************* ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2009 09:26:41 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bill T Subject: Re: Postings to Bee-L In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Anyone who has been around this list long enough recognizes Randy's post as one that has been a standard reply to someone starting beekeeping and posting a beginner's question on the list. They have always, and I mean always, been treated kindly and the question is usually answered along with a suggestion that the list is for a narrower purpose, as noted in the archives. I believe Aaron has a bit of the milk of human kindness about him and does not reject beginner's posts just because he knows that they will be kindly answered and then asked to review information in the archives or go to other more basic forums. To ask him to be unkind and reject posts because they are "basic" would only turn off potential contributors as well as sour the poster on the beekeeping community. So it is nice to have "moderators" who help beginners along. Randy did exactly the right thing. And "informed" does mean just that. This list was started by researchers, not beginning beekeepers. When I started beekeeping I went to the sci.agbeekeeping forum and was a long time lurker on this list before I ever posted. Bill Truesdell Bath, Maine ******************************************************* * Search the BEE-L archives at: * * http://listserv.albany.edu:8080/cgi-bin/wa?S1=bee-l * ******************************************************* ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2009 09:30:03 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Aaron Morris Subject: Re: NYC beekeeping MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable From: John McDonald [mailto:mcbee_77@yahoo.com] Sent: Thu 2009.01.29 22:33 I recently got to thinking about the source of nectar in NYC and it = occurred to me that maybe the bulk of the sugar might come from spilled = soft drinks and sweet stuff in dumpsters. =20 John McDonald ******************************************************* * Search the BEE-L archives at: * * http://listserv.albany.edu:8080/cgi-bin/wa?S1=3Dbee-l * ******************************************************* ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2009 09:47:50 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Peter L Borst Subject: Nosema, not Gaucho, blamed in France MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit More information that was not included in the writing of "A Spring Without Bees" > The residue analysis of 40 compounds demonstrated that the bees from all the colonies were not exposed to any pesticides. The pollen availability, its diversity and the presence of more than enough stored pollen at the time of breakdown were demonstrated by palynological studies. Moreover, neither sunflower nor corn crops, previously related with large decreases in the population of bee colonies, were close to the location of the hive, as reflected by the complete absence of these pollens in the samples analysed. The presence of pollen is directly related with the beekeeping flora and indicates the botanic resources available monthly throughout the study. Twenty different taxa were found indicating high pollen diversity and availability in foraging areas. The blooming period of the different taxa identified indicated that the bees had access to sufficient flowers throughout the year, except in January. > In essence, we have extracted the pathogen, confirmed that it can be transmitted to healthy colonies inducing the disease and colony breakdown, and we have recovered N. ceranae from these newly infected colonies. Multiplication of the parasite occurs throughout the year with no standstill in its life cycle. Moreover, no differences in the pathological alterations to infected bees were observed in different seasons. Fumagillin treatment was a useful method to avoid colony collapse although it doesn't prevent reinfection. How natural infection by Nosema ceranae causes honeybee colony collapse Mariano Higes, et al Received 14 March, 2008; accepted 13 May, 2008. (c) 2008 Society for Applied Microbiology and Blackwell Publishing Ltd ******************************************************* * Search the BEE-L archives at: * * http://listserv.albany.edu:8080/cgi-bin/wa?S1=bee-l * ******************************************************* ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2009 10:22:51 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Peter L Borst Subject: DICOFOL MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I must admit that before Aaron's post mentioning it, I had never heard of DICOFOL DICOFOL FUMIGATION OF HONEY BEES FOR THE CONTROL OF THE MITE VARROA JACOBSONI > Fumigation paper wicks each containing 0.5 g of active substance were made with dicofol and a small amount of KNO3, Using the fumigator, bees infested by Varroa mites -- at least 10 per test cage, 3 cages -- were treated with dicofol smoke. Fumigation with 5 mg dicofol/dm3 yielded a LD50 for Varroa mites in about 9 minutes. With 10 mg dicofol/dm3 all treatments resulted in a 100 per cent destruction of the Varroa parasites in 4 minutes. Using this dose, fumigation times of 2, 4, 8, 16 and 32 minutes appeared to be harmless to the bees. Control treatments with KNO3 caused no mortality of Varroa mites and bees. High smoke concentrations resulted in a typical and immediate reaction of the parasites : they left the bees, so that they were more intensively subjected to the smoke. -- Apidologie 14 3 (1983) 175-182 * * * Dicofol is an organochlorine miticide used on a wide variety of fruit, vegetable, ornamental and field crops. It is produced as emulsifiable concentrate and wettable powder formulations (4). Dicofol has little effect on insects. Dicofol is manufactured from DDT. In 1986, use of dicofol was temporarily canceled by the EPA because of concerns raised by high levels of DDT contamination (9). Modern manufacturing processes can produce technical grade dicofol which contains less than 0.1 % DDT. Dicofol causes hyperstimulation of nerve transmissions along nerve axons. This hyperstimulation is thought to be related to inhibition of ATPases in the central nervous system (3). http://extoxnet.orst.edu/pips/dicofol.htm ******************************************************* * Search the BEE-L archives at: * * http://listserv.albany.edu:8080/cgi-bin/wa?S1=bee-l * ******************************************************* ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2009 11:13:52 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bill T Subject: Re: NYC beekeeping In-Reply-To: <6999718ED3E19D4AA061F73254EEA3414BA148@UAEXCH.univ.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > I recently got to thinking about the source of nectar in NYC and it > occurred to me that maybe the bulk of the sugar might come from spilled soft > drinks and sweet stuff in dumpsters. > Actually, cities are places where bees flourish, mainly because all the floral sources that are pampered with proper watering and lots of plantings. Unlike rural settings when dearths can occur, cities have near continuous nectar sources. Most of the dumpster diving is done by yellow jackets which are improperly identified as honeybees. But bees will take on colas. Obviously, from recent studies.they prefer Coke. Bill Truesdell Bath, Maine ******************************************************* * Search the BEE-L archives at: * * http://listserv.albany.edu:8080/cgi-bin/wa?S1=bee-l * ******************************************************* ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2009 17:03:02 -0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Peter Edwards Subject: Re: NYC beekeeping MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Bill T: > Actually, cities are places where bees flourish, mainly because all the > floral sources that are pampered with proper watering and lots of > plantings. Trees too - e.g. parts of Birmingham (UK) are noted for Lime (Tilia) honey - bees thrive there. Unfortunately, many floral display beds use double-flowered varieties which are of little use to bees. > Most of the dumpster diving is done by yellow jackets which are improperly > identified as honeybees. But bees will take on colas. I have had personal experience of bees taking the concentrates used for producing soft drinks - bright red and green honeys. Best wishes Peter Edwards beekeepers at stratford-upon-avon.freeserve.co.uk www.stratford-upon-avon.freeserve.co.uk/ ******************************************************* * Search the BEE-L archives at: * * http://listserv.albany.edu:8080/cgi-bin/wa?S1=bee-l * ******************************************************* ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2009 08:00:15 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: randy oliver Subject: Re: Postings to Bee-L In-Reply-To: <8c0381120901310626k2db131ddhfac94034245c0272@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > >And "informed" does mean just that. Perhaps in my attempt to be succinct, I was misunderstood. The original question to this thread was whether Pete should hold back on the esoterica. I was encouraging him to continue, and not to lower the discussion to the lowest common denominator. The question was not about limiting beginners. I personally encourage and help beginners constantly, generally at least a dozen emails a day, local and regional clubs, plus I teach several beginners classes each spring in various cities. However, there is a difference between laziness and need for information. I might suggest that those with the simplest beginners questions FIRST look to any beekeeping primer or page of beginners instructions to see if the answer is readily available. Once one has taken the time to do some modicum of "homework," then the value of a "discussion group" is to analyze the contrary pieces of advice offered to beginners. The key word to this discussion is "informed." Beginners can benefit greatly by listening to, and occasionally joining into, informed discussion. Randy Oliver Leaving in a few minutes with the first two truckloads into the almond orchards ******************************************************* * Search the BEE-L archives at: * * http://listserv.albany.edu:8080/cgi-bin/wa?S1=bee-l * ******************************************************* ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2009 13:51:25 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Walter Weller Subject: Re: NYC beekeeping MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Depending on circumstances, I have seen bees load up with powdered kaolinite (porcelain clay) at a paper mill as if it were pollen. I hope I never get that hungry. Walter Weller . > But bees will take on colas. Obviously, from recent > studies.they prefer Coke. *********************** ******************************************************* * Search the BEE-L archives at: * * http://listserv.albany.edu:8080/cgi-bin/wa?S1=bee-l * ******************************************************* ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2009 20:18:36 +0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Gavin Ramsay Subject: Re: NYC beekeeping MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit > I hope I never get that hungry. Of course, they may have been short of poplar trees and were experimenting with clay sealants instead? G. ******************************************************* * Search the BEE-L archives at: * * http://listserv.albany.edu:8080/cgi-bin/wa?S1=bee-l * ******************************************************* ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2009 13:39:37 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Tim Townsend Organization: TPLR Honey Farms Ltd. Subject: Re: NYC beekeeping In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Walter Weller wrote: > Depending on circumstances, I have seen bees load up with powdered > kaolinite (porcelain clay) at a paper mill as if it were pollen. I > hope I never get that hungry. > I don't believe it has anything to do with being hungry, we have seen it here often in the spring, where bees will collect, coal dust, wood saw dust, dust, chop feed, anything that has a consistency close to pollen. It obviously has no nutritive value, but when they are actively looking for pollen, they seem quite happy to collect anything with a similar texture. If natural pollen is unavailable. Tim Townsend ******************************************************* * Search the BEE-L archives at: * * http://listserv.albany.edu:8080/cgi-bin/wa?S1=bee-l * ******************************************************* ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2009 17:27:25 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Grant Gillard Subject: Re: DICOFOL In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Peter Borst wrote:=A0 "High smoke concentrations resulted in a typical and = immediate reaction of the parasites :=A0 they left the bees, so that they w= ere more intensively subjected to the smoke.=A0=A0 --=A0 Apidologie 14 3 (1= 983) 175-182" =A0 Thanks, Peter!=A0 I wonder how much of the effect was from the smoke itself= , and how much was from the chemical.=A0=20 =A0 Burning staghorn sumac berries in a smoker has been highly touted (smoke is= yellow, sulferous and stinks).=A0 Having done some simple sticky board tes= ts, sumac against "regular" smoker fuel and cedar chips, sumac had a higher= mite fall.=A0 It smells so bad, even the bees start leaving the hive. =A0 But others have discounted the sumac and suggested it was the smoke. =A0 Grant Jackson, MO =A0 =A0=0A=0A=0A ******************************************************* * Search the BEE-L archives at: * * http://listserv.albany.edu:8080/cgi-bin/wa?S1=3Dbee-l * *******************************************************