From SYSAM@UACSC2.ALBANY.EDUMon May 22 07:19:32 1995 Date: Mon, 22 May 95 08:38:32 EDT From: Aaron Morris To: dicka@cuug.ab.ca ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 1 Nov 1992 00:22:30 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "La Reine de la Cite' des Phoques (Liz Day)" Subject: Re: Immunity to bee venom... It seems hard to believe that from being stung once in a while one could expect to become allergic to stings. Aren't such reactions fairly rare? LD ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 1 Nov 1992 20:22:00 +1300 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: NICKW@WAIKATO.AC.NZ Subject: Re: Immunity to bee venom... I'm not sure if my earlier posting re: 2 stings being a maintenance dose was properly phrased. What I meant was that the article that I doe recall implied that immunoglobulin G, or whatever it is, is triggered by as low a continued stimulus as that. sAnd general lore here in NZ has it that the small doe doses such as beekeepers families get from the venom left in clothes and gloves really does cause more sensitisactions that (than) normal stings. Nick W nickw@waikato.ac.nz ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Nov 1992 10:23:00 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: TRAN2693@SNYPLAVA.BITNET My father had a serious reaction to bee venom and I too had a reaction to bee venom. Can allergic reactions to bee venom be hereditary? PCT Plattsburgh ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Nov 1992 12:15:33 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Converted from PROFS to RFC822 format by PUMP V2.2 From: Michael Blankenstein Subject: Bee Agression From: Michael Blankenstein Since the current topic of 'stings' seems hot, I have some related questions which need answers. Thanks in advance for the input. 1. How do bees identify an attack target, by movement, proximity, color, shape, or thermal characteristics? 2. Are there any known colors or patterns which either repulse, soothe (as opposed to attract for feeding), or anger bees? 3. During a bee attack on a person wearing a protective net, do the bees attack the net or try to penetrate it so as to reach the person underneath? 4. Why does the smoke soothe bees and would it work during a concentrated bee attack in a location other than the hive? Michael F. Blankenstein u7530mb@doema.bitnet ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Nov 1992 12:39:00 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: PNCSPPC@NCSUVAX.BITNET Subject: allergic reactions to bee venom TRAN2693@SNYPLAVA.BITNET wrote: >My father had a serious reaction to bee venom and I too had a reaction to >bee venom. Can allergic reactions to bee venom be hereditary? PCT >Plattsburgh Since allergies to other substances appear to have a genetic component it seems reasonable that that could be the case here. How serious were the reactions (yours and your father's)? Phil Calvert **************************************** * Bitnet: pncsppc@ncsuvax * * Internet: pncsppc@ccvax1.cc.ncsu.edu * **************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Nov 1992 12:48:00 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: LAVA2955@SNYPLAVA.BITNET Subject: RE:Allergic reactions Allergic reations are "funny" things. A person may use a product all of their life and one day cannot use the product any longer due to an allergic reaction. In reference to the future beekeeper, it's hard to say how many stings a week, month, or year are necessary to develop your immune systems. I would have tests done to observe how your body's immune system would react to varying dosages of bee venom. Immunity is purely an individual thing. Good Luck! ML ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Nov 1992 13:33:47 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Aaron Morris Subject: What bees are most likely to attack... It has been my experience that bees are most likely to attack that which pisses them off most ;) ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Nov 1992 13:36:13 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Aaron Morris Subject: Reactions to bee stings As with most reactions to foreign substances, it is hard to judge an individuals' reaction since there is such variation from one person to the next. This discussion wanders a bit from bee biology, but perhaps a reminder about the proper way to remove a stinger is in order. When a honey bee stings, the stinger as well as the venom sac remains embedded in the victim's skin. (Actually the victim is the honey bee, but that is another discussion). If you remove the stinger by grasping it with your thumb and forefinger, you effectively inject a full dose of venom into yourself and the reaction will be greater. Remember to scratch the stinger away from the sting without putting any more pressure on the venom sac, unless of course you are experimenting to determine the best dosage to keep up immunity. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Nov 1992 21:52:00 GMT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: JANKO.BOZIC@UNI-LJ.SI Subject: BEE AGRESSION What kind of compoumds are in smoke to soothe bees. Which sources of smoke are the best? In Slovenia the best experiancies are with beech touch-wood. Janko Bozzich ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1992 23:04:00 +1300 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: NICKW@WAIKATO.AC.NZ Subject: RE: BEE AGRESSION Well, where I first learned beekeeping in Texas, dried cow patties were just the thing to burn in a smoker. In Tonga, we used the fibrous bark like material from the coconut trees. Here in NZ, pineneedles and old (burlap) sacking are probably the most common materials to burn. Can't say that I've ever really noticed any difference in effectiveness, so long as there is a lot of cool, white smoke... -------------------------------- Nick Wallingford Bay of Plenty Polytechnic Internet nick@waikato.ac.nz -------------------------------- Posted: 3-11-92 22:55:17 NZ time -------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1992 09:59:51 SET Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Osman Kaftanoglu Subject: Bumble bees Dear colleagues, I am planning to raise bumble bees in large scale. Do you know anybody rearing them commercially. I would like to learn the capacity of the bumble bee farms, problems and constrains of the farmers. Thank you very much in advance. Dr. O. Kaftanoglu, Univ. of Cukurova, Adana, Turkey. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1992 11:05:00 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: ANDREW MENARD Subject: Aggression Hi all: It has always been my impression that honeybees react aggressively to dark colored clothing. Could be why all of the bee outfits that I've seen are white..:). The aggression to dark colors is most likely due to the fact that most of the predators of bees are dark colored; ie bears, skunks and racoons. Andy Andrew E. Menard Laboratory Animal Science SUNY Plattsburgh Plattsburgh, NY Bitnet: menardae@snyplava.bitnet Internet: menardae@splava.cc.plattsburgh.edu ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1992 11:41:43 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Aaron Morris Subject: Bees' ire Three answers to Michael Blankenstein's questions, learned from the school of hard knocks and lots of reading (I don't know the sources at this point). First, dark colors and rough textures are more likely to irk bees than light colors and smooth textures. A friend of mine new to beekeeping had his worst(!) experience working his bees wearing a dark plaid flannel shirt. Next, bees are most likely to attack the face, particularly around the eyes, perhaps due to a darker target on a lighter background. They don't aim for the veil/net, it's just in their way enroute to your face. Finally, the lore about smoke is that it makes the bees 'think' that there is a nearby fire and that they may have to vacate the hive for a new location, post haste. Therefore, they gorge themselves on honey, as their stores may soon be consumed by flames. Once full, it is hard for a bee to bend its abdomen into a proper stinging position (Similar to doing situps after Thanksgiving dinner)! These answers, and your questions are given and asked from a very anthropomorphic point of view. A beekeeper must remember that bees are bees and humans are humans and any attempt to understand them on our terms is like trying to compare apples to oranges! ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1992 12:01:51 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "(Rick Hough)" Subject: Honeybee Aggression, etc. It has been my personal experience that bees are more aggressive towards dark clothing - I have a pair of black denim pants that I will NEVER wear in the apiary again - the bees really went after my legs the day I did wear them. Also, I have heard that honeybees tend to be more aggressive towards "furry" things, such as flannel shirts. So, I guess that explains why many "bee suits" are made of white cotton - to be less like honeybees natural predators. With regard to smoker fuels - in Massachusetts, we often use sumac bobs in our smokers - I like the smell, and it seems to calm the bees better than other fuels I've used, although the difference is not all that substantial. In talking with other beekeepers, it seems that they use whatever is handy and inexpensive, as long as it is "natural", to avoid generating smoke that might be toxic to the bees. As was mentioned by another BEE-L correspondent, the key seems to be "plenty of cool, white smoke". I agree completely! Finally, I recall questions about bees stinging veil netting, etc. It has been my experience that the bees seem to try to sting anything when they get angry. Once a site has been stung once, the stinger that is left behind emits an alarm pheremone, which alerts other bees that "this is the enemy" If a beekeeper acts quickly, and masks that alarm pheremone with smoke and/or a dab of honey on the sting site, it seems that the other bees are less likely to continue the aggressive behavior. If left to their own devices, however, additional bees will likely sting the same general area, releasing more alarm pheremone, and so on..... With regard to veils, I have been stung through my bee-veil, where it rubbed up against my neck. I have also found stingers in the veil itself, although that is less common since the barbed stinger doesn't always hook on the net when the bee attempts to sting the net. I frequently find stingers throughout my bee-suit, especially if I've been in the bee-yard for an extended visit. The bees also have an uncanny ability to locate any vulnerability that I happen to have - they find every small hole in my veil, sting me if my clothing is too tight, one even got me through the ventilation net on the cuff of my glove! Smart little animals, those honeybees!! Rick Hough internet: rshough@tasc.com PS - just to let you know, I have been keeping bees as a hobby for two years now, so I am far from an expert, but at least I'm learning at a rapid rate! This year, my wife and I built our apiary up to six hives (not bad considering our one hive died last winter due to BOTH varroa and tracheal mites!) We figure that with several hives, we have a better chance of getting at least one hive to winter over! PPS - Would people on BEE-L be interested in seeing more monthly newsletters being circulated via BEE-L?? I belong to a beekeeping club that publishes a monthly newsletter. I've been thinking about sending it out on BEE-L, and was wondering if that is a good or a bad idea. Please let me know if you are interested in seeing our newsletter, either by sending me a note via BEE-L or directly to me via internet to rshough@tasc.com. Thanks!! ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1992 13:41:00 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Eileen Gregory Subject: Re: Bees' ire > Three answers to Michael Blankenstein's questions, learned from the > school of hard knocks and lots of reading (I don't know the sources at > this point). First, dark colors and rough textures are more likely to > irk bees than light colors and smooth textures. A friend of mine new > to beekeeping had his worst(!) experience working his bees wearing a > dark plaid flannel shirt. > Like you I don't remember where I read this but...It seems that I read that dark colors and rough textures are supposed to be indicative of an animal approach (ie. a foe), whereas light colors and smooth textures more indicative of plants, friends. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1992 13:56:00 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: A VAX cluster with VMS V5.5, PMDF V4.0-22, JNET V3.5 & UCX V1.3A From: SMOSS@UMASSD.BITNET Subject: Re: Bees' ire Having been stung by bees and wasps and bumblebees (sometimes to extremely unconfortable extremes) I can't resist putting in my two cents worth here. I agree completely that light-dark color contrasts (like a wristwatch band on a white wrist) are inviting targets for disturbed bees. As for rough textures my guess is that entanglement (as in the hair) provokes defensive stinging. One additional important factor surely is the release of alarm or excitatory pheromones by a stinging bee or wasp. Subsequent stings will usually be directed at the site of an initial sting. A number of years ago I disturbed (by choice) a nest of white-faced hornets and watched as they directed their communal ire (mistakenly) on the decorative finial of a porch railing post. Within a short time the poor finial was soaking wet with alarm pheromone, and I could feel the stuff splashing through my protective veil. Chemosensory cues are important. Despite the bickering among beekeepers about the virtues of one source of smoker fuel over another, I've wondered if the most important "calming" component of smoke isn't carbon dioxide--which is a wonderful anesthetic for insects. Has anyone out there tried working honeybees with a reasonably dilute CO2 gas mixture? Several years back I was interesting in sound frequencies to which honey bees are sensitive--particularly the "quacking" sounds emitted by newly emerged queens. When I played appropriate frequencies (1000 - 1500 hz as I remembered) to small groups of confined workers, they often reflexly "froze" for brief periods. This gave me the cockeyed idea that a sound gener- ator might make a wonderful tool to handle bees with. So I rigged up a loudspeaker to play a pure 1500 hz tone, strapped it to a hive, turned it on and opened the hive. The bees did not seem to mind, kept moving, but were not aggressive either. The problems were with the neighbors--who complained bitterly about the noise. A final thought has to do with stinging in honeybees, and the seemingly extraordinary altruism it involves. I would like to ask if honeybees, which often sting other bees or insects while defending their colonies, fatally lose their stings in that sort of defense. If anyone knows, I'd appreciate the information. Sanford Moss ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1992 15:56:00 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: J_HERBERS@UVMVAX.BITNET Subject: Re: Bees' ire Since we're on the subject of stinging bees: I finally saw Fried Green Tomatoes last weekend, and there's a scene in which a young woman takes honey from a feral hive without getting stung. The movie alludes to folk tales of "bee charmers". That prompts me to ask two questions: are there in fact people who seem to be able to elude the defensive reaction altogether? Then, how did the movie folks get the bees not to sting the actress in that scene? Inquiring minds want to know.... Joan Herbers J_HERBERS@UVMVAX ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1992 16:15:12 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Kenna MacKenzie Subject: Re: Bees' ire In-Reply-To: Message of Wed, 4 Nov 1992 15:56:00 EST from re: stinging bees I, too, just saw 'Fried Green Tomatoes'. I was watching anxiously for the great bee tree scene as many friends had pointed out to me how the young woman in the film had 'just reached into a colony in a tree and pulled out a piece of comb honey'. I was VERY skeptical about how authentic this would be. And was not surprized when I saw the scene. First, to answer your question - to stage the scene one would only have to use a well-fed artificial swarm. The queen would be caged and placed somewhere near or in the tree hole. The bees would then fly around the queen, but be quite docile. That is, of course, if they were well-fed. Swarms are usually quite easy to work with. Then, all that would have to be done was to place a piece of comb honey in the tree hole. Viola, a bee-charmer! However, the tree was not a typical bee-tree. Bees choose their homes very carefully. The entrance is preferably fairly small so it can be easily defended. On a normal bee tree, one would NOT be able to put their hand into the hole without a lot of difficulty - 2 or 3 fingers maybe! And usually the honey is stored at the top of the cavity with the brood closer to the opening. So, one would not be able to reach the honey and would have a very difficult time removing the comb from its attachment to the top of the cavity anyway. Bees tend to 'cement' the combs to the top of the cavity using propolis. I was also amazed at how quickly the honey flowed out of the comb in the film. Just put the comb in a jar, and the jar fills up with honey! I'm sure beekeepers would like to know how to do that! Removing honey from the comb takes time and effort. Oh well, I guess the movies aren't supposed to be real, are they? Kenna MacKenzie, Dept. Entomology, Comstock Hall, Cornell Univ., Ithaca, NY ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1992 16:04:03 MST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Virginia Sandstedt Subject: Re: Bees' ire In-Reply-To: Message of Wed, 4 Nov 1992 13:56:00 EST from I don't remember the source either, but my understanding is that bees only lose their stings when they sting birds and mammals. Virginia Sandstedt Safety Coordinator Department of Chemistry and Biochemistry Arizona State University, Tempe, AZ 85287-1604 (602) 965-7138 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 12:38:45 +1200 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "A.S. Chamove" Subject: Re: Bees' ire In-Reply-To: Your letter of Wed, 4 Nov 1992 15:56:00 EST Please remove me from Bee-net and thanks for a year's entertainment -- ----------------------------------------------------------------- Arnold Chamove Massey University Psychology Palmerston North, New Zealand ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1992 19:22:28 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: DOUG 'SPEAKER-TO-INSECTS' YANEGA Subject: Re: Bee Agression > 1. How do bees identify an attack target, by movement, proximity, color, shape , > or thermal characteristics? A standard assay for bee aggressiveness involves white cardboard placards with black circles - there is an optimal-sized circle as far as evoking a response goes, and it suggests that a dark object with high contrast in a certain size range (especially one in motion) is the most likely to elicit attacks. That's why light colors are preferrable when working with bees, essentially. > 2. Are there any known colors or patterns which either repulse, soothe (as > opposed to attract for feeding), or anger bees? Other than dark vs. light hues, I'm not so sure. Many color responses (such as proboscis extension) are context-specific, not generalized, to the best of my knowledge. > 3. During a bee attack on a person wearing a protective net, do the bees > attack the net or try to penetrate it so as to reach the person underneath? I've only seen them go after the net with their mandibles. > 4. Why does the smoke soothe bees and would it work during a concentrated bee > attack in a location other than the hive? The story I've heard is that smoke replicates conditions found during brush fires - under natural conditions, after all, that's the only time bees would ever encounter smoke, and it represents a threat to the hive - therefore, the bees presumably have evolved a response which takes priority over all other "defensive" behaviors, and that is to drop what they're doing, tank up on honey, and get ready to flee. I suspect that only bees in a hive will respond this way, as it's context-specific...perhaps the term "soothe" is inappropriate considering this? -------(please include "DY" in subj header of mail to this user)-------- Doug "Speaker-To-Insects" Yanega "UT!" Bitnet: KUENTO@UKANVAX My card: 0 The Fool (Snow Museum, Univ. of KS, Lawrence, KS 66045) "Ev-ry-bo-dy loves the Michigan RAAAAaaaaag!" - The Singing Frog ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 07:43:00 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: KOLMES%HWS.bitnet@UACSC2.ALBANY.EDU Subject: Re: Bees' ire Several recent messages have said that they couldn't recall where the original reference to bees stinging dark colors and certain textures was located. The original paper, by John Free, was published in Animal Behaviour in 1961 (The sti muli releasing the stinging response of honeybees, Anim Behav 9: 193-196). If you want to see a review of the literature on stimuli that release stinging, there is one in an article of mine in the Journal of Apicultural Research (Measurements of stinging behaviour in individual worker honeybees (Apis mellifera L), JAR 28: 71-78, 1989). One recent suggestion was that CO2 in smoke might be making bees less aggressive, and the note asked if anyone had tried a dilute CO2 source in place of smoke. I would advise against that very strongly. Evidence suggests that CO2 makes honey bees (and some wasps that have been studied) more likely to sting (see the "breath test" of Boch and Rothenbuhler, 1974, Defensive behavi our and production of alarm pheromone in honeybees, Journal of Apicultural Research 13: 217-221). Probably it is yet another cue (along with dark color and furry texture) that would normally be associated with a vertebrate predator opening a hive. As for what you place in a smoker, in my recent stay at a Dutch University, I learned that Dutch and German beekeepers favor burning strong tobacco in special pipe-like smokers. I tried it, it does calm the bees, although the amount of smoke involved and its components left me feeling a bit ill. A friend of mine in Connecticut always burns pieces of old blue jeans, which also smells bad but works. So, I'd guess that bees aren't too particular on this point. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 10:26:46 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Malcolm (Tom) Sanford, Florida Extension Apiculturist" Subject: More smoke I am interested in all the smoke about smoking bees. Almost any material (pine straw, burlap, cow chips, fat lighter pine, cardboard) producing a cool smoke is adequate. Some substances produce toxic smoke--especially burlap treated for special purposes, and tobacco. I have used nitrous oxide on bees and this knocks them out--this was for an experiment to try to introduce aged virgin queens. Smoke is used to slightly disrupt the bees chemical communication system, especially to keep the amount of alarm pheromone to a minimum (its smells like bananas); the key is to slightly disrupt the system not totally destroy it which leads to more stinging and/or total breakdown the the colony's defenses leading to robbing. The answer to whether some type of smoke or chemical has been used on honey bees is a resounding yes. Over the centuries every conceivable kind of smoke (tobacco--might kill mites, but what about nicotine, tar, etc that affects human smokers--is there any reason to suggest this doesn't affect bees) or chemical has been used by well-meaning beekeepers which knocked bees down, killed them outright, damaged their nervous system, and the list goes on and on. Poor bees! ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Tom Sanford Extension Apiculturist University of Florida Mailing Address: Bldg 970, Hull Rd., Gainesville, FL 32611-0620 Voice phone 904/392-1801, Ext. 143 FAX 904/392-0190 INTERNET: MTS@GNV.IFAS.UFL.EDU BITNET: MTS@IFASGNV +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 12:03:00 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ed Beary Subject: Re: Bees' ire I saw the same seen and notices that the piece of comb she rremoved was remarkably rectangular in shape. Reaching into a wild hive and{pulling out something like that would be difficult. More than likely the piece was already sitting inside the hive, if it was one. It could have easily been a swarm, well fed, placed on the outside of the tree. She was wearing white. This would have minimized her chance of being stung. Using a known gentle hive of bee on a bright sunny day would make the stunt very safe. It also helpes to be comfortable around bees. She appeard to be calm. So it worked. Ask the star if she got stung. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 09:56:49 PST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Greg Kendall 5657 Subject: Bee scene in Fried Green Tomatoes Funny you should ask about the bee scene. I had dinner with Norm Gary Monday For those of you who don't know, Norm (from UC Davis) is a bee researcher and consultant to Hollywood about bees. The scene in question was filmed, largely by standard film trickery. The actress did not actually stick her hand into the tree. Norm did spend some time getting her used to bees by putting newly hatched bees on her arm, etc. But, mostly, it was "smoke and mirrors". ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 12:26:23 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "La Reine de la Cite' des Phoques (Liz Day)" Subject: request I think it would be helpful if more people, when they wrote to the beeline, put somewhere in their message what institution they're from. The header at the top just says something cryptic like, "jane@xyzvax", leaving the readers wondering where Jane is. The bee line is a nice way to find/meet learn about other bee people, so it would be helpful to include a .sig or a location on the header or something similar. (I suppose I could start by doing this myself...!) Thanks -- Liz Day U of I at Chicago ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 13:34:00 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: J_HERBERS@UVMVAX.BITNET Subject: Re: Bee scene in Fried Green Tomatoes >Funny you should ask about the bee scene. I had dinner with Norm Gary Monday >For those of you who don't know, Norm (from UC Davis) is a bee researcher >and consultant to Hollywood about bees. The scene in question was filmed, >largely by standard film trickery. The actress did not actually stick her >hand into the tree. Norm did spend some time getting her used to bees by >putting newly hatched bees on her arm, etc. But, mostly, it was "smoke >and mirrors". damn, another illusion shattered. By the way, does Hollywood need a consultant on ants? Joan Herbers J_HERBERS@UVMVAX Univ. of Vermont ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 17:35:29 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "(Rick Hough)" Subject: Re: request Good idea Liz - I often find myself wondering where folks are from. I am often surprised by the number of bee-l communications that originate from outside the USA. I hope everyone follows your suggestion! Rick Hough a recreational beekeeper from Hamilton, MA, USA (just NE of Boston) Internet: rshough@tasc.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 18:34:17 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "(Brad Cox)" Subject: Need videotape on bee coordination mechanisms I'm teaching a highly-interdisciplinary course this spring, "Taming the Electronic Frontier". To offset the course's emphasis on interchange of money and information as a means of cooperation/competition in human societies, I'd like to bring in a biological example in which other signaling mechanisms are used. I thought that a videotape on bee society might be just the ticket. But my library doesn't have a clue as to where to find one. Could someone here please advise where I might find one that you think highly of? Brad Cox; bradcox@sitevax.gmu.edu; 703 993 1142 secy 703 968 8229 evenings George Mason Univ; Program on Social and Organizational Learning ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 19:23:00 +1300 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: NICKW@WAIKATO.AC.NZ Subject: Smoke signals 2 COMMENTS: WHY BEES ARE CALMED BY SMOKE UNUSUAL MATERIALS/EFFECTS OF SMOKING HIVES Maybe someone will remember the reference, but I remember some research involving the measurement of which bees take up how much of what honey when a hive is exposed to smoke. But then they carried on to say 'but how about the queen?' - wouldn't do a lot of good to go without her. And discovered the queen in full egg lay wasn't much of a flyer at all. And the amount of time to go 'off the lay' enough to be able to fly with the rest of the hives was measured in several days, by memory! But yes, it makes a very good story, doesn't it? And just a few more curiousities re: smoker fuel. When I worked commercially, I used to keep a puffball (I presume they're pretty common elsewhere besides New Zealand - big mushroomish things...) behind the seat of the truck. You had to get them when they were still 'young' - not when they were ready to explode and spread their spores. When you come across a *really* stroppy hive, you could throw a small piece into your smoker. Smoke the hive, and the bees all just went 'unconscious' (yes, I know...) for about 5 minutes! You could do anything you want with the hive. I've since read from some old NZ research, I think, that it shortened the bees lives (cyanide compound created in the burning process?). Same effect from a teaspoon of nitric type fertiliser in your smoker, though I've not used that one. Laughing gas for bees? Only really practical application (apart from ability to work an impossible hive!) is in filling queen rearing nucs - you can knock the bees out, scoop a measured amount into each unit, put the frames back in, the queen cell and close it all up - all without any bees in the air! ----------------------------------- Nick Wallingford Bay of Plenty Polytechnic (East Coast of the North Island of New Zealand) Internet nickw@waikato.ac.nz ----------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 03:05:00 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: GIVE PEAS A CHANCE Subject: Re: request A bit of a local message... and a general one. Local: (stimulated by seeing Rick's name) Our Bee Exhibit is really wonderful... Bee lovers are encouraged tocome by. You'll want one for your living room! General: One of our zoo staff is doing some DNA research with a local university. The usual wash out methods DO NOT WORK AT ALL for Bees!! This is quite a conundrum. Will letyouknow what results. Lois (Brynes) Associate Dircetor New England Science Center Worcester, MA USA ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 03:08:00 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: GIVE PEAS A CHANCE Subject: Re: Need videotape on bee coordination mechanisms The Unive. of Guelph has a very good 20 min. video. Get them direct or via Entom-l. You might glance as some of Lynn Margulis' work for a counter... ALSO, although there are SOME problems with both, take a look at ANIMAL TALK and Griffin's new book ANIMAL MINDS. Lois New England Science Center ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 14:43:11 CET Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Willem N. Ellis" Subject: Re: request In-Reply-To: Message of Thu, 5 Nov 1992 17:35:29 EST from The suggestion to leave the name and location of your institute (or home) some- where in a message is good enough. But a small problem is that if a system has some option to automatically generate a reply "envelope", everything in the header is fixed. You can still change the header lines, but this is not to be generally recommended, because you may inadvertently change something vital in the address. Probably a better thing is to have a separate file, containing the whole of what the French call the "salade de la fin", In the system to which I am logged (an IBM mainframe, VM) this file should have as filename the user identifier (a429will, in my case) and as filetype "SIGNATUR". After you are ready with your message all you have to do then is to position the cursor in the command line and type SIGN. (But be sure that you really were at the end of the note, otherwise the whole "salad" will appear in the middle of your text!) I hope this works in other systems as well! Willem ========================================================== Dr. Willem N. Elllis Department of Entomology, Institute of Taxonomic Zoology, Plantage Middenlaan 64, 1018 DH Amsterdam, The Netherlands. Telephone (020) 5256240 Private address (most of the time you'll find me here!): Jisperveldstraat 591, 1024 BD Amsterdam; tel. 020-6328080. bitnet: a429will@hasara11 internet: Willem_N_Ellis@sara.nl ========================================================= ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 09:36:45 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Malcolm (Tom) Sanford, Florida Extension Apiculturist" Subject: Re: request Most systems do have a way to attach a signature file, but it often isn't easy to find out how to do it...I am now sending one each time I do an e-mail to the internet, but it doesn't go locally...and now I can't remember exactly how to go about it... ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Tom Sanford Extension Apiculturist University of Florida Mailing Address: Bldg 970, Hull Rd., Gainesville, FL 32611-0620 Voice phone 904/392-1801, Ext. 143 FAX 904/392-0190 INTERNET: MTS@GNV.IFAS.UFL.EDU BITNET: MTS@IFASGNV +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 10:28:20 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Converted from PROFS to RFC822 format by PUMP V2.2 From: Michael Blankenstein Subject: Killer Bees From: Michael Blankenstein Has anyone had experience with the African Bee or its hybrid which is currently moving through Texas and New Mexico? Thanks so much for the input on my 'Bee Aggression' question. Michael Blankenstein US Dept of Energy, Washington, DC u7530mb@doema.bitnet ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 11:34:44 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Danilo Subject: Re: Killer Bees In-Reply-To: Message of Fri, 6 Nov 1992 10:28:20 EST from I worked with the "adansoni" in Brazil. They are NOT killer bees. It's a kind of histerical reaction created by their agressivity (undoubtedly more agressive than the Europeans) and some Hollywood movies. When the "accident" happened in Brazil during the 50's (I'm not quite sure it was an accident) the beekeping activity was destroyed. The beekeepers were used to the calm ligustica and other docile varieties. I am not an expert in genetics, but I know that something happened over the time with the Africans. They seemed to have mixed and today they are called "africanized" bees in Brazil. After a lot of accidents with the "first wave" of agressive bees (late 50's and 60's) many traditional beekeepers gave up the activity. Honey production fell to insi gnificant levels and the demand was met by the criminal production of "backyard made honey"! However, since the mid- 70's, people realized that the African bee s have some nice features. The most important: they are far more productive tha n the Italian, Carnica, Caucasian, etc... Thus, new techniques were developed to handle them. Hives were put more distant from each other, gloves and boots (white) became a necessary part of the indumentary and a large...(Gosh, I do no t know the English word for "fumegador", the stuff that produces smoke.Can some body help me?) "that thing" were introduced in the beekeeping practice. Some people tried to reintroduce the Europeans. There are still some guys who firmly believe in the re-europeization. Most of the Brazilian beekeepers today disagree with this position. They realized that the Africanized bee has an as- tounishing work capacity; it is far more productive than any other European variety. I myself made some experiments with ligusticas and carnicas. Nice, be aultiful and docile bees. Yes, they produce honey. But nothing compared to the africanized bees. When the flowers blossoned in the field I forgot the European s and filled bottles of honey with the hard-work africanized. Oh, yes. Another advantage over the Europeans. The adansoni seems to be more resistant to infections and varroa (mite? Is that the English name?). However, I must mention a bad thing. They have a strong tendency to swarm and leave. But a lot of research has been conducted in order to overcome this tende ncy and select africanized queens with the best qualities. Sincerely, Danilo Fonseca (almost three years in Washington, D.C.. How I miss "my" bees...) ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 12:32:49 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: DOUG 'SPEAKER-TO-INSECTS' YANEGA Subject: Re: Killer Bees > Has anyone had experience with the African Bee or its hybrid which is > currently moving through Texas and New Mexico? I've been attacked by them three times (while in Panama), but I wouldn't suspect that's the sort of "experience" you're looking for - I might point out, however - and this refers a bit to Danilo Fonseca's comments - that the bees *at* the "swarm front" advancing into Texas presently have only the slightest trace of hybridization, and seem to be much more African than otherwise; for some reason, the bees that are traveling the most appear to be almost clean of European genes, and only after they've been in an area for a long time (like Brazil and Central America) do they appear to hybridize. The suggestion I've heard is that, given that the *old* queen is the one that leaves with a swarm, a queen which has produced dissimilar daughters to herself will not be able to travel with her daughters very well - the idea being that African genes code for long-distance, fast flight, and so an African queen with hybrid daughters will outfly them (and cause difficulties in coordination of the swarm), while a European queen with hybrid daughters will be left behind. The combination that will work the best is an African queen with African daughters, and they'll go the longest distance; the result is that the edge of the population that advances the fastest should be composed almost exclusively of swarms that are almost pure African. Could be a "just-so" story, but the genetics (work of Smith, Taylor for example) would seem to support it, and it *is* pretty logical if the mechanism is valid. -------(please include "DY" in subj header of mail to this user)-------- Doug "Speaker-To-Insects" Yanega "UT!" Bitnet: KUENTO@UKANVAX My card: 0 The Fool (Snow Museum, Univ. of KS, Lawrence, KS 66045) "Ev-ry-bo-dy loves the Michigan RAAAAaaaaag!" - The Singing Frog ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 13:56:42 CST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Fernando Subject: Re: Bees' ire In-Reply-To: Message of Thu, 5 Nov 1992 07:43:00 EST from I have seen many reports, in the last many messages, about the use of bad-smelling things to burn in the smokers. I am wondering if these odors would not stick to the combs and honey... ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 14:33:49 CST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Fernando Subject: Re: Killer Bees In-Reply-To: Message of Fri, 6 Nov 1992 11:34:44 EST from I also worked with the africanized in Brazil and agree with what Danilo told us in his message. I would not say that it will be more productive than the european races under cool climates, but they shure are in tropical and subtro- pical Brazil. I also have tryed to build colonies using six italian queens bought here in the U.S.A. It was a disaster. I would need to keep furnishing honey and brood combs for them even when all africanized colonies were storing surplus honey. I think that try to eliminate the africanized in the U.S. will be a waste of time and money. I believe that it would be better to everyone if the effort was concentrate in making a good public education program and in engaging since now in a program of selection of more productive and gentle strains. I think it worth call the attention for the fact that the africanized is not a homogeneous strain of bees. There is a lot of variation in the colonies of any place you look at, at least in southeastern Brazil. The most simple effort toward selection generally produce straordinary effects. I wish you can get used soon to the bees! Fernando Silveira at Kansas University ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 13:32:00 -0800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Kerry Clark 784-2225 Subject: Re:Killer bees This is a comment I was thinking of making re the prior discussion on stinging. A colleague working with beekeepers and AHB in Nicaragua reports that, even though the beekeepers could get "suited up" sufficiently to avoid direct stings, their beekeeping work was sometimes impaired by the venom which got into their eyes from the bees outside their veils.(Their eyes would become irritated and swollen, even without a sting.) I've never heard of bees "projecting" venom, or of a similar experience with EHB. Perhaps the venom was deposited on the screen, dried and blew as particles into their eyes. If so, I wonder what effect breathing so much dried venom would have on sting reactions (isn't breathing dried venom one hypothesis for the hypersensitivity (IgE antibodies) to bee venom observed among immediate family members of beekeepers?). Kerry Clark, Apiculture Specialist B.C. Ministry of Agriculture 1201 103 Ave Dawson Creek B.C. V1G 4J2 CANADA Tel (604) 784-2225 fax (604) 784-2299 INTERNET KCLARK@GALAXY.GOV.BC.CA ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 20:02:25 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "La Reine de la Cite' des Phoques (Liz Day)" Subject: African bees I hope we get used to the bees soon too.... but I don't understand why they are desirable. They seem to be a menace to me, something to be discouraged as far as it is possible to discourage. I am told a student in Costa Rica was killed by them not long ago. To me no amount of honey is worth having people killed. Liz Day U of I at Chicago ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1992 06:11:00 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: GIVE PEAS A CHANCE Subject: Re: African bees "was told..." Liz can be problematic. Bees also have "reasons" for bee-ing aside from the human honey market! Pollination is just one small example. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1992 10:06:12 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "(Rick Hough)" Subject: Africanized Bees I think an important thing to consider with regard to "the Africanized Bee thing" is RELATIVE risk. It is a fact that people get killed by European Honey Bees also - due to hypersensitization and anaphylactic (I think that is the right word!) reactions. People are also killed by many other stinging insects, and poisonous snakes, and scorpions, etc... The point is that we have learned to live with these things, and we can learn to live with the Africanized Bee. The second point is that while there is a risk associated with all these things, it isn't a big risk if you take proper precautions (such as wearing tall boots when walking in the desert to protect against rattlesnakes, etc.) Finally, we all do things every day that carry a much more significant risk (in my opinion) - drive a car, cross the street, etc. (do you smoke cigarettes???) While we debate all this stuff, the press keeps sensationalizing the danger (it helps their ratings for some strange reason). We as beekeepers really need to band together and start educating the public about the real story behind the Africanized Bee, how dangerous they actually are (relative to other known risks - such as rattlesnakes -- is this a good comparison???), and how to avoid a confrontation with angry bees (Africanized or otherwise!) Well, that's just the opinion of one beekeeper on this issue. Humbly submitted, Rick Hough Hamilton, MA, USA (just NE of Boston) Internet: rshough@tasc.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1992 13:15:58 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: DOUG 'SPEAKER-TO-INSECTS' YANEGA Subject: Re: Africanized Bees > I think an important thing to consider with regard to "the Africanized > Bee thing" is RELATIVE risk. It is a fact that people get killed > by European Honey Bees also - due to hypersensitization and anaphylactic > (I think that is the right word!) reactions. People are also killed by > many other stinging insects, and poisonous snakes, and scorpions, etc... Just for public consumption here, Yellowjackets/Hornets cause more deaths in the US each year than any other wild animal (and sometimes I've heard it stated as more than all other wild critters put together). I think the statistic is only confounded by whether one includes domestic dogs or not, and the fact that a *large* number of reported "bee-related deaths" are actually yellowjacket deaths (they also have a barbed stinger, and - as I'm sure many of you are aware - people often call yellowjackets "bees", so when asked "What happened?" the answer "He was attacked by bees" is often less than accurate, from an entomologist's viewpoint ;-) > The point is that we have learned to live with these things, and we can > learn to live with the Africanized Bee. The second point is that while > there is a risk associated with all these things, it isn't a big risk > if you take proper precautions (such as wearing tall boots when walking > in the desert to protect against rattlesnakes, etc.) I must admit, having everyone in Texas wearing a bee suit would be a bit impractical, and I can't imagine what other "precautions" the average person can take - the issue is not foolish, poorly-protected beekeepers, or people who wander into apiaries, but rather what happens when an African colony establishes itself in an area (be it residential or rural) and is then blundered into or agitated purely by accident. Rattlesnakes rarely set up shop, after all, in people's attics, back yards, treehouses, and picnic areas. I've been in areas with lots of African bees, and they swarm a *lot*, and if not found quickly, they can get to "fighting strength" pretty rapidly. I can foresee a real need for a "Volunteer Beefighter" force in areas with large feral populations - which, of course, is the Big Question in this whole scenario - just what kind of feral population density *will* be attained in any given area? We don't know yet, but no one should be surprised if there prove to be "hot spots" where stinging incidents become commonplace. > We as beekeepers really need to band together and start educating the public > about the real story behind the Africanized Bee, how dangerous they > actually are (relative to other known risks - such as rattlesnakes -- is > this a good comparison???), and how to avoid a confrontation with angry > bees (Africanized or otherwise!) I obviously *don't* think it's a very good comparison, if for no other reason than that you don't have to run for your life when confronted by a rattler, but a few thousand angry bees are a different matter. Trust me - I've run into both. > Well, that's just the opinion of one beekeeper on this issue. > Humbly submitted, > Rick Hough And mine is one opinion of someone who studies bees as wild animals, which is perhaps a rather different perspective. -------(please include "DY" in subj header of mail to this user)-------- Doug "Speaker-To-Insects" Yanega "UT!" Bitnet: KUENTO@UKANVAX My card: 0 The Fool (Snow Museum, Univ. of KS, Lawrence, KS 66045) "Ev-ry-bo-dy loves the Michigan RAAAAaaaaag!" - The Singing Frog ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1992 13:28:05 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: DOUG 'SPEAKER-TO-INSECTS' YANEGA Subject: Re: Re:Killer bees > A colleague working with beekeepers and AHB in Nicaragua reports that, even > though the beekeepers could get "suited up" sufficiently to avoid direct sting s, > their beekeeping work was sometimes impaired by the venom which got into their > eyes from the bees outside their veils.(Their eyes would become irritated and > swollen, even without a sting.) > > I've never heard of bees "projecting" venom, or of a similar experience with > EHB. I have heard of this, from several different sources, and it is also known from tropical Polybiine paper wasps (which also have large, highly aggressive colonies and a "mass-attack" defensive response). The impression I have, however, is that most of these instances are where the target person was in direct line-of-sight with the colony entrance, and so the bees/wasps flew straight at their heads at full speed. If you've ever heard bees hitting a target during a stinging experiment, you know just how hard a bee can hit in such a situation. It'd be a real simple experiment - just rig a normal target with a taut mesh an inch or two from the surface, let bees attack it, and see how wet the target gets. I'd bet money on its success. -------(please include "DY" in subj header of mail to this user)-------- Doug "Speaker-To-Insects" Yanega "UT!" Bitnet: KUENTO@UKANVAX My card: 0 The Fool (Snow Museum, Univ. of KS, Lawrence, KS 66045) "Ev-ry-bo-dy loves the Michigan RAAAAaaaaag!" - The Singing Frog ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1992 19:21:29 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "La Reine de la Cite' des Phoques (Liz Day)" Subject: africanized bees cont. I'm afraid I still am no friend of these bees. Won't they take food away from the native bumblebees? And usually one can run away from their hive, but what if the person is very young or old or trapped or up a tree or something? Liz Day ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1992 09:49:53 CST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Fernando Subject: Re: africanized bees cont. In-Reply-To: Message of Sat, 7 Nov 1992 19:21:29 -0600 from Well, I think the matter is not whether the africanized are desirable or not. They are here and I really believe that nobody or no technology will be able to just push them back thruough the borders. I think the real question now is: once they are here, what should we do? It is fact that the africanized bees can kill (as other can), but keep stuck on this is no progress and will not help solve the problem. As Doug was saying the other they, it seems that the first waves of bees arriving are the most dangerous. So what I think should be done now is keep populations, especially in rural areas, informed about the dangers associated with feral bee colonies in these days. They should be taught to deal with the problem. What I think is going on now is a campaign pro panic. As to the problem of having bees in the attic etc. Yes it may become a nuisance. Although they should not be dangerous unless they are moles- ted. In Brazil, what has been done to deal with this kind of problem is to put firefighters and beekeeper associations working together. Firemen are thaught how to deal with bee swarms and colonies and they might have an experienced beekeeper with them at action, or in more difficult cases call beekeepers to capture the bees. Nowadays, in Brazil, the beekeeping industry is growing, and we do not have more problems with bee attacks now than we use to have before the arrival of the africanized. But, shure, the beekeeping industry has to adapt to the new conditions. Maybe the US beekeepers would have some to learn with their colleages down in Brazil. Why not trying to make contact directly between north american and brazilian beekeeping asso- ssiations? ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1992 13:01:46 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Vladimir Vidak UNSUBSCRIBE Vladimir Vidak ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1992 17:39:21 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Edward E Southwick Subject: Africanized honeybees ================================================================== º Edward E. Southwick Department of Biology º º Phone 716-395-5743 State University of New York º º FAX 716-395-2416 Brockport, New York 14420 º º BITNET SOUTHWIK@BROCK1P U.S.A. º º Internet: e.southwick@ACSpr1.ACS.Brockport.edu º ================================================================== One place to get up to date information easily is to take a look in some of the monthly issues of AMERICAN BEE JOURNAL during the past couple of years. There are frequently articles written by persons who have had considerable experience with these critters. If you want accurate information, refer to refereed articles. The genetics is pretty well understood now. The ecology experiment has been studied in detail. Take a look at some of the recent books by known bee people such as Mark Winstons - Killer Bees by Harvard Univ Press. Cheap paperback just out and available from local book stores. Also information on Africanized bees is available from Dr. Tew at Ohio State Univ at Wooster 44691 (tel 216-264-3911 or FAX 216-262-7634). Jim keeps on top of these things. Of course if you really want to know the effect of the Af Honey Bee in the U.S. you should take advantage of the wonderful articles below! Southwick and Southwick. 1992. Estimating the economic value of honey bees as agricultural pollinators in the U.S. J Economic Entomol 85:621-633 and Southwick et al 1990. Comparative energy balance in groups of Africanized and European honey bees: ecological implications. Comparative Biochem and Physiol 97A:1-7. andf then, of course see David Roubik's book on Tropical Bees - great reading and many pics. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 13:26:30 +1200 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "A.S. Chamove" Subject: Re: Smoke signals In-Reply-To: Your letter of Fri, 6 Nov 1992 19:23:00 +1300 Please unsuscribe me from Bee-net -- ----------------------------------------------------------------- Arnold Chamove Massey University Psychology Palmerston North, New Zealand ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 13:38:58 +1200 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "A.S. Chamove" Subject: Re: Africanized honeybees In-Reply-To: Your letter of Sun, 8 Nov 1992 17:39:21 -0500 Unsuscribe Arnold Chamove -- ----------------------------------------------------------------- Arnold Chamove Massey University Psychology Palmerston North, New Zealand ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 10:52:17 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "(Rick Hough)" Subject: Africanized Bees Doug - thank you for your response to my posting over the weekend. I guess it shows that I haven't spent as much time as I need to educating myself about Africanized bees. When I said that we (beekeepers) need to educate the public about African bees, I really should have mentioned that first, we need to educate ourselves!! Thank you also for widening my focus - I really had been thinking about African Bees from the rather selfish point of view of "how will they affect my apiaries, and my hobby", rather than taking the larger (and more important) view of how they impact the general public - the accidental agitation of a feral Africanized colony being an exellent example. Another item to throw into the fray - has anyone thought very hard about how the migratory beekeeping industry will impact the movement of Africanized Bees in the USA?? I think that the massive movement of bees that results from this industry is rather unique to the U.S., and I wonder how it will affect us. I've heard that the rapid spread of Tracheal and Varroa mites in the US has been attributed (at least in part) to this unique feature of American beekeeping. ------------------------------------------------- RIck Hough Hamilton, MA, USA (just NE of Boston) Internet: rshough@tasc.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 21:38:00 GMT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Carl Zimmer <0005399004@MCIMAIL.COM> Subject: Dancing Greetings. I'm an associate editor at Discover, a science magazine. I was chatting with someone here on staff about the venerable controversy over the dancing of bees. He thought he had heard something about its latest incarnation, but didn't know where he had seen it. Can anyone on this list provide some recent references, or is there actually a participant in the controversy reading this (in which case I'd love to hear from you). If there's something worth writing about that's recent, we'd probably run a story on it. Thanks in advance. Carl Zimmer 539-9004@mcimail.com \ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 12:05:00 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: G7JKTL@IRISHMVS.BITNET Subject: Re: Dancing You are probably referring to "Anatomy of a Controversy" by Adrian Wenner and Patrick Wells (Columbia University Press New York 1990). I am a participant in the controversy (see page 354 :The Harald Esch seminar. I am presently working with a model bee (a computer controlled robot) that attempts to communicate with bees in a hive. If success- ful, this might settle the "venerable controversy". If you are interested you can contact me. Harald Esch Department of Biological Sciences University of Notre Dame Notre Dame, Indiana 46556 (219) 239 7025 Good luck‹ Harald Esch, Prof.Biological Sciences ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 17:36:00 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ed Beary Subject: Re: Dancing You may also want to look at a paper in the American Zoologist 31:768-782 by Wenner, A.M., D.E. Meade, L. J. Friesen, Recruitment, search behav ior, and flight ranges of honey bees. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 23:56:35 PST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "(Paul C. Cheng)" Subject: Africanized bees and varroa Hi Bee Netters! Varroa infestation of African or Africanized bee colonies is lower than that of European colonies. One suggestion is that African bees, when irritated by the mites, start dancing and shaking violently. This either causes the mite to leave the bee's body, or other bees "groom" it off. My question is: does a video exist which shows this behavior? If so, where may I obtain it? Thanks, Paul Cheng ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 10:08:11 CST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Bee Surgeon Subject: Africanized bees and varroa I used to think that it is because of the shorter developmental time for the African(ized) bees. Supposedly, mites need certain time to develop on the host and mortality increases if host emerges earlier. The Asian workers does do that -- kicking the mites off, bascally, as reported by YS. Peng. Huang ------------------------ >Received: from MIZZOU1 by VMD.CSO.UIUC.EDU (Mailer R2.07) with BSMTP id 6313; > Wed, 11 Nov 92 02:03:14 CST >Received: by MIZZOU1 (Mailer R2.08) id 7255; Wed, 11 Nov 92 01:59:36 CST >Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 23:56:35 PST >Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology >Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology >From: "(Paul C. Cheng)" >Subject: Africanized bees and varroa >X-To: BEE-L%ALBNYVM1@UACSC2.ALBANY.EDU >To: GENE ROBINSON , > ZHIYONG HUANG > >Hi Bee Netters! > >Varroa infestation of African or Africanized bee colonies is lower than that >of European colonies. One suggestion is that African bees, when irritated >by the mites, start dancing and shaking violently. This either causes >the mite to leave the bee's body, or other bees "groom" it off. > >My question is: does a video exist which shows this behavior? If so, where >may I obtain it? > >Thanks, >Paul Cheng ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 16:32:07 MST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: ICWWD@ASUACAD.BITNET Subject: Re: Africanized bees and varroa In-Reply-To: Message of Tue, 10 Nov 1992 23:56:35 PST from Dear Bee-Liners, Have any of you heard about the virus carried by the Varroa mite? There i s evidence suggesting that the so-called resistance of some honey bees such as African bees to Varroa may relate to whether or not the mite populations associ ated with them have the virus or not. If anyone is interested, I can provide s ome references to this work. Winifred Doane icwwd@asuacad ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 11:47:45 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "La Reine de la Cite' des Phoques (Liz Day)" Subject: sting variation? According to an acquaintance of mine in the ecology dept. here, many or some honeybee hives contain a certain percentage of bees with barbless stings. Does anyone know whether this is true? Liz Day ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 18:20:39 BDB Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: dejair message Subject: Re: Africanized bees and varroa In-Reply-To: Message of Tue, 10 Nov 1992 23:56:35 PST from dear cheng, There are some PhD thesis at Department of Genetics/Sao Paulo Univers ity, Ribeirao Preto. Sao Paulo State, Brazil about some resistance mecanism of africanized honey bees to Varroa. You could contact with Dr. Lionel Segui Gonca lves or Dr. David De Jong. Dejair Message Depto.Biologia Animal Universidade Federal de Vicosa 36570 - Brazil bitnet adress:dbgx1169@brufv ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 15:48:20 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Edward E Southwick Subject: stings ================================================================== º Edward E. Southwick Department of Biology º º Phone 716-395-5743 State University of New York º º FAX 716-395-2416 Brockport, New York 14420 º º BITNET SOUTHWIK@BROCK1P U.S.A. º º Internet: e.southwick@ACSpr1.ACS.Brockport.edu º ================================================================== I had a student who studied bee stings. He found a wide variety of barb arrangements. The size, shape and number varied in workers from the same colony. He did apparently find a few without barbs. I say apparently because one must take great care in observing barbs under a light microscope as the orientation is crucial in seeing the stings well. Barb morphology is illustrated in an article in the ABJ: Southwick, e.e. 1987. Toxicity of sting venom. Am Bee J 127(6):456-457. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 16:13:33 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Aaron Morris Subject: Barb Morphology Didn't I meet her at a beekeepers convention somewhere in Chicago? Or was that Liz Day? Can't keep these people straight by reading their E-Mail addresses ;-) ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 21:11:02 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "La Reine de la Cite' des Phoques (Liz Day)" Subject: Re: Barb Morphology !! OK, OK! :-) Just cause you're the sysadmin doesn't mean you can get away with this addressless thing too, yaknow. We know where you live.... Liz D. ps - Barb says hi. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1992 11:31:28 CST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Knut Pedersen Subject: FOUNDATION MOULD A FEW YEARS AGO I SAW A DESCRIPION OF MAKING A SILICON RUBBER FOUNDATION MOULD, FOR CASTING YOUR OWN WAX FOUNDATION. CANT REMEMBER WHERE CAN YOU HELP ME? KNUT PEDERSEN IMP UNIVERSITY OF BERGEN NORWAY ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 18:11:13 +0200 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: SEPPO KORPELA TEL +358 16 188576 FAX +358 16 188584' Subject: Re: FOUNDATION MOULD An article in "Bee Craft" March 1975, p. 45-48 is on the subject, but the material for the press in it is fibreglass instead of silicon rubber. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 12:21:56 MST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Winifred W. Doane" Subject: Varroa jacobsoni as Virus Vector This is a follow-up to my note on potential links between resistance of honey b ee colonies to ill effects of Varroa vs. presence/absence of viruses vectored b y the mites. A precedent for Varroa being a vector of harmful bee viruses is wo rk done by B.Ball, F.M.Allen & co-workers at the Rothamsted Experiment Station, Harpenden, UK, who studied the acute paralysis virus (APV) in European colonis . A few refs.: Ball, 1988, in "Africanized Honey Bees and Bee Mites", edited by Needham et al., p. 457; Ball & Allen, 1988, Ann.appl.Biol.113:237; Allen et al ., 1986, J.Apicult.Res.25:100. Now they have shown that Varroa is the vector of the deformed wing virus (DWV) which causes adult and brood mortality in heavil y infested colonies and produces bee sympton previously attributed solely to th e mites (Abstract in Proc.Annual Meeting of Soc.Invertebrate Pathology, 1992). The implications of this regarding so-called resistance of African honey bee co lonies to Varroa was apparently discussed at the meeting. This is still specula tive but it makes sense - mite resistance may be a function of virus vectoring. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 17:21:08 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Janko Bozic Subject: Varroa and allogrooming Dear Bee Netters interested in VARROA AND ALLOGROOMING BEHAVIOUR For last 3 years I have recorded some hours of video recordings about allogrooming behaviour in carniolan bee. I'm just preparing detailed quantitative description of allogrooming behaviour. I haven't got any spot with grooming Varroa mites. I've also never observed Varroa removal during direct observation of allogrooming behaviour in observation hives. Have any one seen Varroa removal made by conspecifics or even have some photos or video recordings for Apis mellifera species ? I know only for observations of damages on Varroa mites founded at the hive bottom (Ruttner and el 1992, Apidologie 23,173-187).H Janko Bozic University Ljubljana Department of Biology Askerceva 2 61000 Ljubljana SLOVENIA tel. 38 61 150 001 fax. 38 61 159 337 bitnet address ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 21:57:00 GMT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: JANKO.BOZIC@UNI-LJ.SI Subject: DANCING DANCING, DANCING, DANCING,... DANCING, DANCING, DANCING,... Hello ! I'm replaying a little late but it could interesting announcement. You can read a paper published in Journal of Apicultural Research v. 30(3/4) p. 125-131 (1991): "Attendants and followers of honey bee waggle dances". It was written by prof. Tine Valentincic and Janko Bozic. Janko Bozic University Ljubljana Department of Biology Askerceva 2 61000 Ljubljana SLOVENIA tel. 38 61 150 001 fax. 38 61 159 337 bitnet address ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 09:28:49 +0200 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: eisikovitz Subject: Sweet cherries o all bee liners, We begun in Israel program concerning Sweet cherries pollination,if you like to help us please send any reference you have or write to Eisikowitch, department of botany Tel aviv university Israel Sincerely yous Dan Eisikowitch ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 30 Nov 1992 06:10:00 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jeffri H Frontz +1 614 860 2797 Subject: Manuka honey I remember reading several stories about manuka honey from New Zealand. Seeing as how I'm going to be in New Zealand next week, I thought I'd buy some and bring it home with me. Does anyone know about the availability of manuka honey in NZ? Is it a precious commodity? Also, has anyone had any experience bringing honey into the US? Will the customs agents throw a fit? While I'm at it, I'll ask if there are any "bee-worthy" places to visit in NZ or Japan. Thanks, Jeff --- Jeff Frontz Work: +81 3 5561 3006 AT&T-Bell Labs (CB 0A-119) FAX: +81 3 3589 4878 att!jeff.frontz jeff.frontz@att.com Home: +1 614 924 2205