From LISTSERV@UACSC2.ALBANY.EDU Mon Oct 3 16:22:12 1994 Date: Mon, 3 Oct 1994 18:10:50 -0400 From: BITNET list server at ALBNYVM1 To: Allen Dick Subject: File: "BEE-L LOG9402" ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 31 Jan 1994 23:22:49 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "La Reine de la Cite' des Phoques (Liz Day)" Subject: speaking of which Jane Beckman mentioned people who know nothing about bees and who occasionally show up asking questions. Which book/s might I/we refer these people to (when their quesions are so numerous and basic that they need to read up)?? I sympathise with these people, who really want some quickie summaries rather than to spend all weekend at the library, but don't have time to answer them all any more either. Liz Day University of Illinois at Chicago day@eecs.uic.edu ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Feb 1994 09:54:33 -500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Chris Conroy Subject: Re: A new list for beekeepers? I don't feel the need for a new list as long as everyone here keeps an open mind and allows the novices and non-scientists to post questions that are more "hobby-related". I've been able to get some fantastic information here, and I'd love to be able to get more from this list rather than subscribing to another. My inbox is getting heavy! Chris Conroy ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Feb 1994 08:26:12 PST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Dave Pehling Organization: WSU CAHE USER Subject: Re: speaking of which In-Reply-To: Message of Mon, 31 Jan 1994 23:22:49 -0600 from Hi Liz, My favorite book to recommend to the curious is "ABC and XYZ of Bee Culture". Subjects are arranged aplphabetically and most libraries have a copy. Dave Pehling =========================================== | W.S.U./SNOHOMISH CO. COOPERATIVE EXTENSION | | 600 128TH ST. S.E. | | EVERETT, WA. 98208 | |PHONE - (206)338-2400 | |FAX - (206)338-3994 | |INTERNET CE6431@WSUVM1.CSC.WSU.EDU | ============================================ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Feb 1994 15:45:14 GMT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Brian Styles Subject: Re: A new list for beekeepers? I quite agree with Chris Conroy. Unless anyone is getting browned off with general or novice questions (are you???), why splinter off another list? Chris Plowright was exactly on the ball. Indeed, there's been more traffic on this "proposal" than on the central purpose, (whatever that is!). I hadn't noticed any sign of flame or cold shoulder to pure beekeeping discussion, so why hive off (sorry about the pun) into another group? A good parallel is piporg-l (strongly recommended!) which, in spite of appearing to be concerned with pipe organs, has veered into pianos, electronics, synthesisers, and even d.i.y. oil-refining without a murmour of protest and all good fun. Still, we wrinklies should just sit back and not stifle youthful exuberance... -Brian Styles ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Feb 1994 11:34:01 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: RICHARD E BONNEY Subject: Book recommendation Regarding Liz Day's question about good books -- for people who know nothing about bees I think a really great beginner book is Beekeeping: A Practical Guide, by Richard E. Bonney,(no false modesty here), published by Garden Way, 1993. Follow it up in about a year with Hive Management: A Seasonal Guide, also by Richard E. Bonney, Garden Way, 1990. Dick Bonney ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Feb 1994 09:47:17 PST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Adrian Wenner Subject: Re: Book recommendation It is good to learn of the Bonney books. In the past on this network, I have been recommending two of the Sue Hubbell books: A COUNTRY YEAR (Harper & Row) and A BOOK OF BEES (Ballantine). Most of the questions posed on BEE-L seem to be answered quite nicely in her books. Best of all she seems to nuture an excitement about what a bee colony and beekeeping are all about. At least, my undergraduate interns come away from those books quite excited about learning more of bees. The books, of course, provide essentially no information about how to keep bees. Now I will have to read the Bonney books. Thanks for the references. Adrian *************************************************************** * Adrian Wenner E-Mail wenner@lifesci.lscf.ucsb.edu * * Department of Biology Office Phone (805) 893-2838 * * University of California Lab Phone (805) 893-2838 * * Santa Barbara, CA 93106 FAX (805) 893-4724 * *************************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Feb 1994 17:51:57 +0000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Malcolm Roe Subject: Re: Bees near rubbish tips... In-Reply-To: from "NICKW@WAIKATO.AC.NZ" at Jan 29, 94 05:21:00 pm Nick Wallingford asks about bees gathering AFB infected honey from rubbish tips. I don't have any literature references but there are two separate cases of an anecdotal nature in my neighbourhood. 1) There is a large honey packing plant in Oxfordshire. Most of the honey is imported. I am told that empty bulk containers are left outside. It seems to coincide with an AFB hot-spot. Local beekeepers certainly think this is not a coincidence. 2) Even nearer to home, there is a vinyard. (Yes, some wine is produced in England.) They have problems with wasps damaging the grapes. To reduce this they put out wasp traps. These consist of vertical sided containers with a watery solution of something sugary at the bottom to attract and then drown the wasps. We experienced an outbreak of AFB within flying distance of the vinyard. A beekeeper I know vised the vinyard and found that the sugary substance they were using was (you guessed it!) cheap imported honey. Naturally, the vinyard owner was encouraged, in no uncertain terms, to use something else. (Actually, as soon as the reasons were explained to him he was very helpful.) Nick, I've not visited either the packing plant ot the vinyard but I'm sure I could provide contacts if you wanted them. They won't be on email though! -- Malcolm Roe Phone : +44 442 230000 ext 4104 Crosfield Electronics Ltd Fax : +44 442 232301 Hemel Hempstead, Herts. HP2 7RH, UK E-mail : roe@crosfield.co.uk ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Feb 1994 13:18:32 -0500 Reply-To: adamf@hopper.itc.virginia.edu Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Adam Finkelstein Subject: _Newsgroup_ for beekeepers In-Reply-To: <199402011642.AA20145@Hopper.itc.Virginia.EDU> from "Brian Styles" at Feb 1, 94 03:45:14 pm Hi. The idea is to make a news group on Usenet for beekeepers. Not a new list. Adam -- =============================================================================== Adam Finkelstein VDACS Apiary Inspector 116 Reservoir St Harrisonburg VA 22801 703-433-1006 (V) 703-434-5607 (Fax) 703-564-4394 (Pager) adamf@hopper.itc.virginia.edu adamf@vtaix.cc.vt.edu |Bees To Please| ================================================================================ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Feb 1994 10:26:51 PST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jane Beckman Subject: Re: speaking of which This may sound like a strange recommendation, but there is a kids' pop-up book with some clever name like "The Pop-Up Book of Bees" ;-) that I find is a great "first book of bee biology" for non-bio types. It covers all the major Hymenoptera with special emphasis on honeybees. Has a really *wonderful* pop-up honeybee that is about 10 inches long and very detailed. Cutaways with inside views of beehives, inside views of bumblebee nests, etc. Great for "compare and contrast" as well as a good intro to honeybees and bees in general. It's intended for kids, but even *I* found it to be interesting and informative. I'll have to check my copy for the author and real title. --Jane Beckman [jane@swdc.stratus.com] ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Feb 1994 10:24:35 -0800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Richard Spear Subject: Re: Book recommendation In-Reply-To: <01H8D6I1FT5M9UPNB8@HAMLET.CALTECH.EDU> the talk of books and of access (usenet vis news list) show the need for another (.rec?) group. there would be a faq available to all comers with startup info, etc. in it, and it would be available to a *much* larger audience than merely the list. i vote once more for a beekeeping.rec newsgroup. richard rspear@sookit.jpl.nasa.gov all disclaimers apply ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Feb 1994 08:33:00 -0800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Kerry Clark 784-2225 fax (604) 784 2299" Subject: beeginner reference book Liz Day wondered about a good book to answer beginning beekeepers. For people already keeping bees and looking for good technical information I prefer The Hive and the Honey Bee rather than the ABC XYZ. They both have lots of information for reference. People considering whether to keep bees might prefer Dadant,First Lessons in Beekeeping; Sammataro, The Beekeepers Handbook; Carrier, Begin to Keep Bees, or Hubbell, A Book of Bees You can get a catalog of bee books, in Canada from Doug McCutcheon 3871 197 Street Langley, B.C. V3A 1B4 Tel (604) 530-5428 Fax 604 534 4932 in the U.S. from BES Wicwas Press PO Box 817-L ` Cheshire, CT 06410-0817 Fax or Tel (203) 250 7575 or from IBRA in Britain I wouldn't want to discourage anyone from asking beginner questions on the list, and I'm pleased that they're interested enough to ask, but the more complete answers available in one of these book is likely to often be better than the quick one someone can take time to compose. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 31 Jan 1994 12:27:00 -0800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Kerry Clark 784-2225 fax (604) 784 2299" Subject: New Varroa Diagnosis Technique A beekeeper pointed out to me an item from the American Beekeeping Federation Convention agenda (Jan 20 in Orlando): Dr Eric Erikson, Lab Director, USDA Tucson, speaking on A new diagnostic technique for varroa. Could anyone tell us what the new technique is? Kerry Clark, Apiculture Specialist B.C. Ministry of Agriculture 1201 103 Ave Dawson Creek B.C. V1G 4J2 CANADA Tel (604) 784-2225 fax (604) 784-2299 INTERNET KCLARK@GALAXY.GOV.BC.CA ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Feb 1994 13:36:51 +0000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Rick Hough Subject: Books BEE-L seems to be emerging from it's winter slumber. Look at all this traffic! Spring must be just around the corner :-) I like Dick Bonney's books. They are informative and easy to read. They are aimed at folks who really want to keep bees, and there is good detail about how to actually keep bees, as compared to the report from Adrian Wenner that the Sue Hubbel books contain "essentially no information about how to keep bees." In fact, I'll be using "Beekeeping: A Practical Guide" as the text for a class for beginning beekeepers that I am organizing this spring. Rick Hough, A beekeeper from Hamilton, MA (NE of Boston) rshough@tasc.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Feb 1994 10:02:00 -0800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Kerry Clark 784-2225 fax (604) 784 2299" Subject: Re: Gregarines Robert Rice asked a few days ago if anyone had more info on gregarines causing bee disease. Since no one responded, I'll try to recall a report of a couple of years ago, from Bill Wilson at Weslaco Texas, USDA, of gregarines associated with unusually high colony mortality in the south U.S. I think there was no definite causal link, but it might be interesting for you to compare observations. Morse and Nowogrodski have a 2 page discussion indicating gregarines in bees are widespread (except where it freezes) but rarely identified, usually considered commensals but sometimes considered pathogenic, and have been controlled with fumagillin. Kerry Clark, Apiculture Specialist B.C. Ministry of Agriculture 1201 103 Ave Dawson Creek B.C. V1G 4J2 CANADA Tel (604) 784-2225 fax (604) 784-2299 INTERNET KCLARK@GALAXY.GOV.BC.CA ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Feb 1994 10:54:35 PST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jane Beckman Subject: Re: beeginner reference book I believe the issue was not beginning beekeepers, but "people who know nothing about bees." Those are people who are *not* going to plow through The Hive and the Honeybee (which is great for beginners, but it's a different audience). --Jane ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Feb 1994 14:08:17 +0000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Rick Hough Subject: ?rec.beekeeping? My personal vote on the new list/group thing is to maintain the status quo, but that is due to my inability to get either the alt.* or rec.* newsgroups. My Internet access is via my employer, who, in their infinite wisdom has elected to filter out certain newsgroups :-( However, I can get e-mail, so the list-server approach is my only choice at the moment. I wonder if someone should go wander the UseNet groups periodically, and "advertise" the fact that BEE-L exists, possibly with a quick note on how to subscribe, get help, etc. Then again, how much traffic do we really want on this list?? The advantage of the newsgroup is that the user polls the newserver to get info, instead of having your inbox fill up with stuff. If traffic volume gets too heavy on BEE-L, we may start loosing folks who don't want to wade through all the mail. To answer the FAQ problem, maybe someone should start accumulating a FAQ sheet, which could be posted to the list periodically, and e-mailed directly to folks asking FAQs. I may regret this, but...... I am willing to start accumulating a FAQ sheet for BEE-L. Please e-mail your suggestions to RSHough@tasc.com. I will start distributing the FAQ to the list once a month, unless y'all ask me to stop. I will also try to monitor the list, and forward a copy of the FAQ to anyone who asks a question that happens to be on it. Of course - I wouldn't mind help, so anyone interested in helping, please let me know. Sincerely, Rick Hough rshough@tasc.com PS - Any of you bee BBS operators out there that might already have a FAQ sheet that you are willing to share, I would love to use that as a starting place. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Feb 1994 11:19:40 PST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Adrian Wenner Given that last message about BEEKEEPING: A PRACTICAL GUIDE, I checked the libraries of all Univ. of California campuses and one (and only one) did pop out with the search: Search request: FIND exact title BEEKEEPING: A PRACTICAL GUIDE # Search result: 1 record in the TEN-YEAR Catalog database Type HELP for other display options. 1. Melzer, Werner, 1927- Beekeeping : a practical guide for the novice beekeeper : buying bees, management, rearing, honey production : special section, the beekeeper's yearly work cycle / Werner Melzer ; with color photos by outstanding... New York : Barron's, c1989. UCD Main Lib SF523.M2513 1989 Of course, I have no idea about how good it might be. Does anyone have experience with this book? *************************************************************** * Adrian Wenner E-Mail wenner@lifesci.lscf.ucsb.edu * * Department of Biology Office Phone (805) 893-2838 * * University of California Lab Phone (805) 893-2838 * * Santa Barbara, CA 93106 FAX (805) 893-4724 * *************************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Feb 1994 11:16:10 -0800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Teri Rhan {FMO} Subject: Re: speaking of which In-Reply-To: <9402011828.AA02407@mx1.cac.washington.edu> Hi Jane, Yes please post the author of the book you mentioned below. I'm starting my second season at beekeeping (after a rocky first season) along with my 4 year old son and this sounds like just the book for both of us. Thanks Teri On Tue, 1 Feb 1994, Jane Beckman wrote: > This may sound like a strange recommendation, but there is a kids' pop-up > book with some clever name like "The Pop-Up Book of Bees" ;-) that I find > is a great "first book of bee biology" for non-bio types. It covers all > the major Hymenoptera with special emphasis on honeybees. Has a really > *wonderful* pop-up honeybee that is about 10 inches long and very detailed. > Cutaways with inside views of beehives, inside views of bumblebee nests, > etc. Great for "compare and contrast" as well as a good intro to honeybees > and bees in general. It's intended for kids, but even *I* found it to be > interesting and informative. > > I'll have to check my copy for the author and real title. > > --Jane Beckman [jane@swdc.stratus.com] ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Feb 1994 11:30:30 PST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Adrian Wenner Subject: Re: beeginner reference book >I believe the issue was not beginning beekeepers, but "people who know >nothing about bees." Those are people who are *not* going to plow through >The Hive and the Honeybee (which is great for beginners, but it's a different >audience). > >--Jane Jane, et al. That was my impression, also, which is why I recommended the Hubbell books. Adrian *************************************************************** * Adrian Wenner E-Mail wenner@lifesci.lscf.ucsb.edu * * Department of Biology Office Phone (805) 893-2838 * * University of California Lab Phone (805) 893-2838 * * Santa Barbara, CA 93106 FAX (805) 893-4724 * *************************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Feb 1994 13:37:05 CST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Rich Pelikan Subject: Bees near rubbish tips... In-Reply-To: In reply to your message of FRI 28 JAN 1994 22:21:00 CST Hi Nick In response to the posting below. My dad often gets honey from different people and sets it out near his hive to let them clean them out. It would seem quite reasonable that any empty or open container would be foraged from. If there is any vector in the honey it could be transmitted. > Does anyone have (1) anecdotal or (2) literature references to > anything related to this? Do bees readily collect honey from > discarded honey containers and could this be a recognisable > vector for the spread of honey borne bee diseases? > Richard A. Pelikan, A275CCR Southeast Missouri State University BITNET: A275CCR@SEMOVM INTERNET: A275CCR@SEMOVM.SEMO.EDU ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Feb 1994 11:55:24 PST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jane Beckman Subject: Book recommendation I just realized I have my Brushy Mountain Bee Farm catalog next to my desk, and they list the pop-up book I mentioned, so I don't even have to go home and check references. Unfortunately, there is a printing-break on the author's name, so I'm guessing on the two beginning letters. The book is "The Bee" by Dr. Beth Norton. Their blurb describes it thusly: "Fully illustrated in color and peppered with pop-ups, anatomical cut-aways, and photographs taken through scanning electron microscopes. A fun and interactive family learning experience. Featuring twelve fascinating species of bees. Beautiful Book!" It's $12.95, by the way. --Jane ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 29 Jan 1994 17:22:00 +1300 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: NICKW@WAIKATO.AC.NZ Subject: Heat treatment for EFB in honey... Wooten M, Hornitzky M, Ryland L; 1981. Thermal destruction of Streptococcus pluton in Australian honeys and its effect on honey quality. Journal of Apicultural Research 20(2):115-120. This article describes the time:temperature relationships required to destroy EFB in extracted honey. It was conducted using a relatively small number of samples, it seems to me. I would be interested in any comments on the importance of the findings, with particular reference to methodology and the variability of the results obtained. What other factors besides, say, moisture content and maybe thixotropicity, might be important to consider as possible variables in the time:temperature requirements to destroy EFB? ------------------------------------- Nick Wallingford Bay of Plenty Polytechnic (East coast, N Island, New Zealand) Internet nickw@waikato.ac.nz ------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 30 Jan 1994 14:48:00 +1300 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: NICKW@WAIKATO.AC.NZ Subject: AFB strains... Can someone provide me with some reference re: varying strains of Bacillus larvae? I've been told there are at least 8 that have been identified, but would like to see what literature there is around. ------------------------------------- Nick Wallingford Bay of Plenty Polytechnic (East coast, N Island, New Zealand) Internet nickw@waikato.ac.nz ------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Feb 1994 14:16:33 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Gary S. Reuter" Subject: new list Since there does not seem to be a large enough group to split up into another group maybe we should start a convention to put whichever group you want in the subject so those not interested can just throw them out without reading them. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Feb 1994 17:05:15 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Malcolm (Tom) Sanford, Florida Extension Apiculturist" Subject: Re: New Varroa Diagnosis Technique The technique is to turn combs upside down and look for white deposits in the cells...they vary in size; they are mite scat...lots of mite scat means lots of mites. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Tom Sanford Extension Apiculturist University of Florida Mailing Address: Bldg 970, Hull Rd., Gainesville, FL 32611-0620 Voice phone 904/392-1801, Ext. 143 FAX 904/392-0190 INTERNET: MTS@GNV.IFAS.UFL.EDU BITNET: MTS@IFASGNV +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Feb 1994 15:41:19 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: RICHARD E BONNEY Subject: Definitions Could someone define some of the terms that have been used relative to a possible new bee list? What is meant by list, rec, sci, etc? What are the implications of the different formats. Would we access each the same way, etc. Thanks, Dick Bonney ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Feb 1994 14:30:39 PST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jane Beckman Subject: Re: Definitions Could someone define some of the terms that have been used relative to a possible new bee list? What is meant by list, rec, sci, etc? What are the implications of the different formats. Would we access each the same way, etc. Thanks, Dick Bonney There are two major division issues here, which seem not to be clear to many on this list. A list comes to you via email. (A list may also have its contents posted to a Usenet news group, but this is a secondary application.) The Bee-L is a LIST. What is being proposed is a NEWSGROUP. A newsgroup is not automatically sent to you. It resides on Usenet News, and is accessed by means of a news reader of some sort (popular kinds include rs, rn, nn, etc.) This allows you to view specified groups on Usenet News and check lists of available articles, who posted them, etc. You may pick and chose among articles, selecting only those which interest you, or particular authors, etc. In the heirarchy of Usenet News, there are general categories, which begin the name of the group. Names of groups are determined by the Usenet administrators, and must fit certain criteria. You may suggest names and which heirarchy you would like for your proposed group. rec.--- is a "recreation" (think "hobby") group. sci. is a science group. Proposed groups may be moderated (all articles approved by a central moderator(s)) or unmoderated. This is the "mainstream" net. There is also the alt. net, where groups are created without the active participation of the administrators, and need not meet rigid criteria for readership, naming, etc. The caveat with the alt. net is that many sites regard it as frivilous, and do not carry groups in this heirarchy. This is not necessarily a reflection on the groups, as the same alt. heirarchy carries such diverse groups as alt.sex, alt.sewing (very mainstream), alt.folklore.(urban,military, college, etc.) (which are monitored by serious folklore students/teachers), etc. The problem with the alt. net is also that groups persist, as mentioned. There was great opposition when alt.aquaria was moved to rec. and many people continued to read and post to the group for years after the "move." Most "serious" (main Usenet News) groups are carried by all sites, but some site administrators, particularily at large and conservative companies, do not carry rec. groups, for the same reason alt. groups are not carried---it is not "work" related. It depends on the philosophy of the administrator and or/site. This is your quick guide to lists, newsgroups, terms, etc. I hope this helps. -Jane B. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Feb 1994 14:25:44 -0800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Shannon E. Kearns" UNSUBSRCIBE BEE-L ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Feb 1994 18:09:12 +0000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Rick Hough Subject: Definitions While we are defining things: FAQ = Frequently Asked Questions. Not usually a feature on a LIST, unless someone makes a special effort. It is generally the job of a NEWSGROUP maintainer to build a FAQ list, and archive it somewhere that people can read it easily. Also, it is frequently reposted to the NEWSGROUP because articles posted to NEWSGROUPs have "expiration dates" - they are not maintained in the active part of the NEWSGROUP for very long (typically a week or two). NEWSGROUPs often have archives associated with them, which is where you could find old messages, as well as FAQs, etc. Rick Hough rshough@tasc.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 2 Feb 1994 11:38:14 +1200 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Cliff Van Eaton Subject: Re: beeginner reference book -Reply My favourite beginning bee book is Sammataro, D. and Avitabile, A. (1986) The beekeeper's handbook. 2nd ed. Dexter, MI, USA; Peach Mountain Press. 132 pp. Very clear, easy to follow, with excellent diagrams, including ones showing the basic hive manipulations which beginners often want to know about and find very confusing. The internal and external anatomy diagrams also make excellent overheads for use in beekeeping courses. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Feb 1994 20:12:00 CST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: P30LEK1@NIU.BITNET Subject: Re: Book recommendation I second Richard Bonney's recommendation of his book. It is a very readable and useful text. I would add to the beginning beekeeper's reading list Richard Taylor's Joys of Beekeeping. Not for technique but for the feeling. Come to think of it, I would recommend it to beekeepers and non. Larry Krengel Marengo, IL ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Feb 1994 23:13:54 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "La Reine de la Cite' des Phoques (Liz Day)" Subject: Re: beeginner reference book Yes, those were the people I had in mind. Short books on bees in general, even children's books if necessary, might be more useful than beekeeping how-to-do-it books. Liz Day University of Illinois at Chicago day@eecs.uic.edu ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 2 Feb 1994 09:07:05 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ed Beary Subject: Re: speaking of which Jane, I was given a pop up book called The Bee text by Beth Norden and Ill. by Akerbergs Hansen. Publ Stewart, Tabori & Chang. It's an attractive book. Ed Beary ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 2 Feb 1994 09:59:55 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: BEELAB@ACSPR1.ACS.BROCKPORT.EDU Subject: BEE L usage Hello everyone. Have no fear, I will leave BEE-L just as it is for the forseeable future. Seems to me there is some science and some beekeeping communication going on. The big problem WAS so much yakking going on that there was too much mail piling up (kind of like the mail piling up about whether or not to start yet another bee group- which is fine with me - go to it). Meanwhile please continue to enjoy BEE-L. For those primarily interested in research in social insects (NOT just honey bees) there is the SOCINSCT group. On that link there is rarely a question about beekeeping (and we intend to keep it that way). cheers, Edward Southwick ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 2 Feb 1994 10:28:15 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Adam Finkelstein Subject: Re: beeginner reference book -Reply In-Reply-To: <199402012321.AA22200@Hopper.itc.Virginia.EDU> from "Cliff Van Eaton" at Feb 2, 94 11:38:14 am > My favourite beginning bee book is Sammataro, D. and Avitabile, > A. (1986) The beekeeper's handbook. 2nd ed. Dexter, MI, USA; > Peach Mountain Press. 132 pp. > > Very clear, easy to follow, with excellent diagrams, including > ones showing the basic hive manipulations which beginners often > want to know about and find very confusing. The internal and > external anatomy diagrams also make excellent overheads for use > in beekeeping courses. I use this book more than any other helping bee people with their questions. Adam -- =============================================================================== Adam Finkelstein VDACS Apiary Inspector 116 Reservoir St Harrisonburg VA 22801 703-433-1006 (V) 703-434-5607 (Fax) 703-564-4394 (Pager) adamf@hopper.itc.virginia.edu adamf@vtaix.cc.vt.edu |Bees To Please| ================================================================================ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 2 Feb 1994 08:56:47 -0800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Steve Dobson Subject: I would like to subscribe I would like to subscribe to this discussion group. I realize this is probably not the correct way to go about it, but I am unaware of the address for subscription. My e-mail address is: dobson@mendel.berkeley.edu Thanks, Steve ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 3 Feb 1994 06:28:37 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Wolfgang Kirchner Subject: BEE L usage In-Reply-To: Dear Ed Southwick, You mentioned "the SOCINSCT group". I have never heared of it. I would be inter ested in more information about it. Wolfgang H. Kirchner, W|rzburg (kirchner@vax.rz.uni-wuerzburg.d400.de) ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 3 Feb 1994 15:09:34 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Eric Smith Subject: Re: September 1993 'Buzz' - Iowa Honey Producers In-Reply-To: from "tdahms@SLEDGE-PO.WEEG.UIOWA.EDU" at Oct 5, 93 5:28 pm Bee Folks, I am looking for some computer "pictures" of honeybees. Does anyone have any they would be willing to share? Giff format perfered but I'm not too picky. Thanks. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Eric Smith (eric@curly.red-cross.org) Have a nice day, unless you've American Red Cross made other plans. The opinions and spelling mistakes are my own..... -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 3 Feb 1994 16:50:07 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Dave D. Cawley, a De Leon Socialist" Subject: PROPOSAL: rec.beekeeping I took the liberty of posting this to alt.config...let the discussion begin! *************************************************************************** > X-News: jaguar alt.config:21115 > From: ddc1@jaguar.uofs.edu > Subject:PROPOSAL: rec.beekeeping > Date: 3 Feb 94 16:43:11 EST > Message-ID:<1994Feb3.164311.1@jaguar.uofs.edu> > > There is no news outlet for beekeeping. Beekeeping doesn't fall > under any of the established rec.pets because they aren't pets. It doesn't > really fall under misc.rural because it is an all climate/geography hobby. > And it doesn't get covered by any sci.* groups. There is a mailing list > called BEE-L, but that was generally established for the discussion of > apicultural research, though some hobbyists do participate. It is also > extremely difficult to find. > > I (and many other beekeepers) propose rec.beekeeping. Forwarded-By: ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Dave D. Cawley | Where a social revolution is pending and, University Of Scranton | for whatever reason, is not accomplished, ddc1@jaguar.uofs.edu | reaction is the alternative. ddc1@SCRANTON | -Daniel De Leon ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 3 Feb 1994 16:53:26 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Aaron Morris Subject: It's Deja Vu all over again! Adding my 2 cents worth to the non-bee-biology discussion of whether to spin off a separate beekeeping list, I have to voice an emphatic NO! The spin-off discussion is a repeat of what has been an annually raised issue over the past three years, and usually wraps up with the decision to stick with the status quo, while making an attempt to include subject headers about whether a post pertains to beekeeping or biology. This has worked for a number of years, doesn't seem to be broken, so why fix it? The only worthwhile (IMHO) suggestion from this discussion is a FAQ, and we already have a volunteer (a non-military type, I presume). Opening up/migrating/spinning off this list to a newsgroup was discussed in the past and it was decided that that was not the way to go, mainly due to the amount of traffic that newsgroups generate. Newsgroups are advertised to the WORLD by virtue their existance, tend to draw opinions vs real information and opens the discussion to every Malibu Skipper, Gilligan and Barbie who may see a beekeeping list and chose to invade it with inappropriate comments about the soulless nature of uncaring bee people who should willing accept unsolicited drivel on their list while respecting the poster's right to privacy! That kind of traffic was unwelcomed and led to a number of learned posters abandoning the list. The entire list suffered from the exposure. I for one benefit from both strains of discussions on this list and it was generally agreed upon the last time around that the biology folks benefitted from the beekeepers' posts and vice versa. I would hate to have to subscribe to this list for the biology discussion and have to review the newsgroups for the beekeeping issues. It seems to me that newcomers to this list have arrived with good intentions and ideas to fix something that was never broken in the first place. Beekeepers! C'mon down. Newbie questions will be addressed with referrals to good literature where your questions will be answered in totality. This information highway is a wonderful tool, but it will NEVER be a substitute for a good book. Spinning off a separate newsgroup to avoid too much science?!? I don't think so! ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 3 Feb 1994 17:17:22 PST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jane Beckman Subject: Re: It's Deja Vu all over again! > Newsgroups are >advertised to the WORLD by virtue their existance, tend to draw >opinions vs real information and opens the discussion to every Malibu >Skipper, Gilligan and Barbie who may see a beekeeping list and chose to >invade it with inappropriate comments about the soulless nature of >uncaring bee people who should willing accept unsolicited drivel on >their list while respecting the poster's right to privacy! This might actually keep these folks away from *this* list and let them go play in the newsgroup, not in the bee-list. And Usenet groups seem to roll with the punches a bit better. I don't see a reason why both entities might not co-exist. I, personally, would stay on this list, as well. This is not just because I like the scientific aspects as well, but because I don't always have time for Usenet News. I think a Usenet group might be best used as a supplement to the list, and a place for the casual layman to drop by. --Jane Beckman [jane@swdc.stratus.com] ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 3 Feb 1994 20:36:53 +0000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Rick Hough Subject: It's Deja Vu all over again! I agree with Jane. In fact, I would lobby *strongly* against linking the two together - I don't think it would do BEE-L any good to get the extra traffic. I'm also not sure how much the folks on Usenet would really appreciate the scientific/academic traffic from BEE-L. If someone asks truly intelligent questions on the Usenet group, maybe we could *discretely* clue them in on BEE-L (assuming some BEE-L participants also monitor the newsgroup). But if there is enough interest to support a newsgroup in addition to BEE-L, I don't see a problem with it. Rick Hough rshough@tasc.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 3 Feb 1994 19:45:01 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "La Reine de la Cite' des Phoques (Liz Day)" Subject: bee pop up book I was given this as a joke, but it's wonderful! Huge amusing cardboard bee pops out of the center, then there is a quickie overview of the biology of all sorts of bees including different solitary bees. No one can claim, as an apocryphal student did about another book on penguins, that 'this book told me more about the topic than I wanted to know'. It's only $12. Liz Day University of Illinois at Chicago day@eecs.uic.edu (Sorry, I'm partial to the cover, a huge colorful painting of a bumblebee at a zillion times its natural size...) By the way, who IS Beth Norton, the author? I feel ignorant having never heard of her. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 3 Feb 1994 19:48:18 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "La Reine de la Cite' des Phoques (Liz Day)" Subject: Re: It's Deja Vu all over again! Let's not get confused. I thought the debate was not over changing the present bee-line, but whether to create a new beekeeping newsgroup. The first of these ideas was agreed already to be a bad idea; the second is (I think) about to be tried. Liz Day University of Illinois at Chicago day@eecs.uic.edu ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 4 Feb 1994 01:11:47 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Collin Forbes Subject: honeybee pictures In-Reply-To: <9402032015.AA09758@hela.INS.CWRU.Edu> On Thu, 3 Feb 1994, Eric Smith wrote: > I am looking for some computer "pictures" of honeybees. Does anyone > have any they would be willing to share? Giff format perfered but I'm not > too picky. I have a slightly-out-of-focus "portrait" (close-up taken using extension tubes on a camera, with the image blown up 200% using the scanner) of a bee on clover blossums in .gif format. It's about 130k and I'm willing to mail it (uuencoded) to anybody who requests it. The downside is that I'm not exactly sure it's a honeybee... I'm not a beekeeper nor a bee biologist, just an interested observer. ___ _ _ _ ___ _ / __|___| | (_)_ _ | __|__ _ _| |__ ___ ___ | (__/ _ \ | | | ' \ | _/ _ \ '_| '_ \/ -_|_-< collinf@uidaho.edu \___\___/_|_|_|_||_| |_|\___/_| |_.__/\___/__/ min@cardboard.mocw.id.us ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 4 Feb 1994 08:38:52 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Tom Mayo Subject: Re: honeybee pictures Collin- Please send me your bee picture. Thank you very much. _________ /___ ___/\ Thomas Clayton Mayo \__/ /\__\/ tcmayo@eng01.psf.ge.com / /_/_______ / ___ ___ /\ / /\_/ /\_/ / / /_/ //_/ //_/ / \_\/ \_\/ \_\/ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 4 Feb 1994 07:20:36 MST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Nordin Zeidner Subject: Re: bee pop up book In-Reply-To: <9402040149.AA31940@lobo.rmh.pr1.k12.co.us>; from "La Reine de la Cite' des Phoques" at Feb 3, 94 7:45 pm Can you send me the title and author's name of the pop-up book? I have a two year old who is fascinated with bees...thanks, nordz. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 4 Feb 1994 10:10:43 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Adam Finkelstein Subject: RFD rec.beekeeping The following was posted to news.announce.new.groups to begin the usenet news group creation of rec.beekeeping. Already, the admn. there thought the name of the group should be "sci.agriculture.beekeeping" so you can see what fun this is going to be. If you have any questions or want to read up on how this is going, e:mail me at: adamf@hopper.itc.virginia.edu, or subscribe to the usenet news group: news.groups to see how the discussion is going. I recommend joining the discussion if you want your ideas heard. I will cease and desist from anymore usenet related traffic on bee-l and apologize to any who would rather have been talking about bees :) Adam (article follows) Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,rec.gardens,rec.food.cooking,rec.food.veg,sci.agriculture,sci.bio,bionet.general,rec.pets,misc.rural,alt.sustainable.agriculture,alt.beer Followup-To: news.groups Distribution: Organization: Public Access Internet at UVa. Subject: RFD: rec.beekeeping Summary: This is a formal request for discussion on the creation of the newsgroup: rec.beekeeping. The science and art of beekeeping spans many fields of discipline: bees are used in agriculture, science, medicine, and for enjoyment. Bees produce honey, wax, propolis, pollen, and venom. Presently on the internet there is one formal forum for bee discussion: bee-l, a listserve dedicated to discussions concerning bee biology, and beekeeping. The list handles moderate traffic, but often becomes clogged during active bee seasons. Bee-l has a scientific tone, and although encourages beekeeping questions, tends to have biology as its theme. Beekeeping is _applied_ biology. A beekeeper might have bee questions or questions concerning where to obtain wood and glue for beehive manufacture. Beekeeping lore and technique often is the antithesis of bee biology! Bees produce honey, beeswax, and other products that are used worldwide. These topics although possibly addressed in bee-l often require lengthly discussions. "Which honey tastes better?" or "How do I re-heat honey that is crystallized?" "How much should I charge for a one pound jar of honey?" These are beekeeper questions or questions concerning beekeepers' products and not bee biology. Rec.beekeeping would contain these discussions well and relieve the congestion of the bee-l during active beekeeping seasons. Bee management is controversial, dynamic and the laws, policies and techniques vary from region to region, as do beekeepers themselves. Bees kept in Arizona react differently to a management technique than bees kept in southern Germany. Since beekeeping lately has been inundated by difficulties ranging from parasitic bee mites to cut throat marketing tactics, beekeepers need an area on the internet that may cover all this information. Bee-l the bee biology listserve attempts to do this now, and if it was successful, I would not be posting this RFD. Beekeepers world-wide often cannot access listserve and can access usenet. Rec.beekeeping would allow beekeepers to get the information they need easily. The creation of rec.beekeeping would allow beekeepers ready access to bee information other than specific bee biology, while allowing the bee biology listserve to function. One would compliment the other. Beekeeping and bee biology are interrelated but not the same. To be a good beekeeper, one needs as much information as possible.The creation of the usenet group rec.beekeeping would enhance beekeepers' knowledge in conjunction with the bee-l, or bee biology listserve. Discussion of this proposal will occur in news.groups starting at the time this posting and lasting 30 days. -- =============================================================================== Adam Finkelstein VDACS Apiary Inspector 116 Reservoir St Harrisonburg VA 22801 703-433-1006 (V) 703-434-5607 (Fax) 703-564-4394 (Pager) adamf@hopper.itc.virginia.edu adamf@vtaix.cc.vt.edu |Bees To Please| ================================================================================ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 4 Feb 1994 11:38:01 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Warner Granade Subject: Re: RFD rec.beekeeping Adam, please keep us up to date on the voting procedures. -- Warner Granade *****jwg2y@virginia.edu 804-924-7409 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 4 Feb 1994 11:00:52 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Gary S. Reuter" Subject: new group Lets start a new group to discuss starting a new group ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 4 Feb 1994 13:05:34 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Paul F. Lehmann" Subject: Bee Pop up book. The Bee: Dimensional Nature Portfolio series Stewart, Tabori & Chang Published at $12.95 Other titles in series include The Butterfly and The Beetle and ? the Ant. They are all on remainder tables in our local bookstores with prices in the $5 to $6 dollar range. If you can't find the book locally, it is available fairly cheaply via mail. I have no relationship to the following but have found the dealership reliable in the past. There is no telephone number. An alternative source might be Barnes and Noble in New York. Edward R. Hamilton, the bookdealer in remainders lists the bee book as cat# 920339 and the butterfly as cat #92041X. Each is listed at $5.95. The address of this dealer who produces a newspaper full of thousands of remaindered books in all subjects is: Edward R. Hamilton Falls Village CT 06031-5000 You need to send a check and add $3.00 per order regardless of size of order. Also sales tax if in Connecticut. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 4 Feb 1994 11:09:50 PST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jane Beckman Subject: Re: RFD rec.beekeeping >Already, the admn. there >thought the name of the group should be "sci.agriculture.beekeeping" >so you can see what fun this is going to be. This is one of the problems with the "mainstream" net. I can tell you that there are several groups who are having lots of problems with later- comers, simply because the net administrators forced them to assume a name that gave an erroneous impression of what the group was about, sometimes in direct conflict with what the originators of the group intended. (In one group, it is so bad that later readers periodically tell the founders to "get out and form your own newsgroup" because of an impression they have formed because of the unwanted name.) If you want rec.beekeeping, be prepared to do major battle for the name, and be aware that even at that, you may not get it. --Jane B. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 4 Feb 1994 16:26:16 CST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Lon Kaufman Subject: melittin I am a plant biochemist and have no experience with bees so any information, no matter how trivial it seems will be appreciated. I am trying to find out if bees leave any melittin on flowers they have visited. This might be by leakage from the venom sac (unlikely), melittin elswhere in the bee, either on the outside of the body (eg. stinging in the hive?) or possibly in the fluids of the glands associated with various mouth parts. In searching literature it appears that antibodies have been made that are directed against melittin. Have they been used to detect melittin on visited flowers or various bee fluids or parts? Thanks for your help Lon Kaufman University of Illinois at Chicago U12998@uicvm ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 4 Feb 1994 13:12:07 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Paul F. Lehmann" Subject: Stamps with bee theme. I just received a letter from China with 3 stamps produced in 1993 all with a honeybee theme. While this question should await the recreation (Rec.) list, I wondered if anyone knows of any specialty stamp listings dealing with honey bees and their activities? Please post to me and I'll summarize for everyone. Paul F. Lehmann Department of Microbiology Medical College of Ohio Lehmann%opus@mcoiarc.bitnet Lehmann%opus@cutter.iarc.mco.edu ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 4 Feb 1994 20:34:39 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jackie McMillan Subject: Re: SOCINSCT Hello, Folks Being a network neophyte, the information that there is a group out there on the social insects isn't quite enough to go on for me to find it. Would Edward Southwick, or some other net-veteran aware of the group SOCINSCT, please draw me a map? Many thanks, Jackie ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 6 Feb 1994 11:01:25 +1200 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Murray Reid Subject: Stamps with bee theme. -Reply See Gleanings in Bee Culture Sept 1986 and March 1988.Latter article lists over 90 countries which produced bee related stamps from 1986-88 including other species of bees,skeps and in the case of New Zealand,our parliament building known as the bee hive because of its shape ...some would say because of the drones that work there !!! Bee World 54(2): 53-56, 1973 has other listings. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 5 Feb 1994 23:44:05 -0500 Reply-To: adamf@hopper.itc.virginia.edu Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Adam Finkelstein Subject: Beekeepers Usenet group update In-Reply-To: <199402040118.AA18532@Hopper.itc.Virginia.EDU> from "Jane Beckman" at Feb 3, 94 05:17:22 pm To anyone interested, the people at group-advice@uunet.uu.net are deciding on a name for the beekeeping usenet group. This is only the first step in the group creation. Once a name is decided on then the RFD (request for discussion) will posted in various usenet groups. If anyone has any suggestions as to where this should be posted, please e:mail me. Currently I have these groups on the header: rec.gardens,sci.agriculture,misc.rural,alt.sustainable.agriculture,bionet.general,rec.food.cooking,sci.bio,rec.pets,rec.food.veg, alt.beer. The names being discussed for the group are: rec.beekeeping, rec.crafts.beekeeping, and sci.agriculture.beekeeping. Any comments on these names please mail to me, I'll forward to the group-advice people. Adam -- =============================================================================== Adam Finkelstein VDACS Apiary Inspector 116 Reservoir St Harrisonburg VA 22801 703-433-1006 (V) 703-434-5607 (Fax) 703-564-4394 (Pager) adamf@hopper.itc.virginia.edu adamf@vtaix.cc.vt.edu |Bees To Please| ================================================================================ ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 5 Feb 1994 23:03:06 -0800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jim Osborn Subject: Re: speaking of which I like to recommend Sue Hubbel's "A Book of Bees" to newbies. It's available in our local library, and our town doesn't have a traffic light, to give you an idea of its size. It's well written enough to be easy, pleasurable reading, and she covers enough basics to get one through a lot of startup questions, and it's relatively short. I've never quite found all the answers I was looking for in the good ol' "ABC XYZ," and it's intimidatingly long. jimo@hebron.connected.com Camano Island, WA, USA ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 6 Feb 1994 10:49:19 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "La Reine de la Cite' des Phoques (Liz Day)" Subject: bee popup author Her name (I couldn't even spell it right..) is Dr. Beth B. Norden. Has anyone ever heard of her? Liz Day University of Illinois at Chicago day@eecs.uic.edu ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 6 Feb 1994 22:35:43 -0500 Reply-To: adamf@hopper.itc.virginia.edu Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Adam Finkelstein Subject: Last Call:Usenet Group Name Input Last chance for input on name for beekeeping group on usenet. Rec.beekeeping is deemed unacceptable by the folks at group-advice@uunet.uu.net. The name choices are: sci.agriculture.beekeeping or rec.crafts.beekeeping. I need input asap. Choose the name. Then we can post the RFD. I opt for sci.agriculture.beekeeping. Let me know which you like. We will use the majority. Adam -- =============================================================================== Adam Finkelstein VDACS Apiary Inspector 116 Reservoir St Harrisonburg VA 22801 703-433-1006 (V) 703-434-5607 (Fax) 703-564-4394 (Pager) adamf@hopper.itc.virginia.edu adamf@vtaix.cc.vt.edu |Bees To Please| ================================================================================ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Feb 1994 09:28:18 WET Reply-To: MunnPA@cardiff.ac.uk Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Dr Pamela Munn Subject: Re: Stamps with bee theme. In-Reply-To: ; from "Paul F. Lehmann" at Feb 4, 94 1:12 pm > > > I just received a letter from China with 3 stamps produced in 1993 all with > a honeybee theme. While this question should await the recreation (Rec.) > list, I wondered if anyone knows of any specialty stamp listings dealing > with honey bees and their activities? > > Please post to me and I'll summarize for everyone. > > Paul F. Lehmann > Department of Microbiology > Medical College of Ohio > > Lehmann%opus@mcoiarc.bitnet > Lehmann%opus@cutter.iarc.mco.edu > I'm expecting an update on the article on bee stamps published in Bee World in the early 70s by Dorothy Shaw in Aus. I also have details of a newsletter on bee stamps called 'Ar Gwenwn' (spelling is phoenetic!) - if this is of general interest I'll post it to Bee-L. Pam Munn _____________________________________________________________________________ | E-mail : MunnPA@Cardiff.AC.UK | Mail: IBRA, | | Phone : +44 222 372409 | 18, North Road, | | Fax : +44 222 665522 | Cardiff, | |---------------------------------------| South Glamorgan | | Please state if the message is for | CF1 3DY | | someone else within IBRA | United Kingdom | |_______________________________________|___________________________________| ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Feb 1994 15:57:00 +0100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Wilhelm Bos, Microbiologie" Subject: Re: honeybee pictures Please send me that picture. Mail to:Bos@voeding.tno.nl ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Feb 1994 11:11:46 PST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Harold Levie Subject: boiling-lye sanitization of comb frames A few weeks ago there was mention of a technique used in New Zealand (as I recall) for sanitizing hive parts that involved dunking in a boiling lye solution. I would like to try this; having provided myself with a suitable tank, I wonder if anyone would care to offer comments on its reasonableness before I make the first experiments. The process sounds reasonable on its face: the lye should saponify most of the stuff on the frames, and the residue should become harmless fairly quickly (sodium hydroxide + carbon dioxide + moisture --> sodium carbonate). I am curious about time, concentration, and so forth. The tinning on the reinforcing wires will probably go to sodium stannate, so rinsing seems to be in order, no? Should the frames be rewired afterwards? Re-nailed? For general information: large quantities of boiling water are dangerous enough even without adding strongly alkaline substances. This will definitely be an outdoor activity, standing upwind with gloves, apron, goggles and a water hose handy. It sounds somewhat less obnoxious than scraping old frames, which are too good to throw away and too grubby to re-use as is. Harold Levie levie@llnl.gov ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Feb 1994 13:52:10 -0600 Reply-To: Marla Spivak Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Marla Spivak Subject: Re: SOCINSCT In message Jackie McMillan writes: > Would Edward Southwick, or some other net-veteran aware of the group SOCINSCT, > please draw me a map? Send a message to LISTSERV@UACSC2.ALBANY.EDU and write: SUBSCRIBE SOCINSCT followed by your name, then send it off. Marla Spivak Spiva001@maroon.tc.umn.edu ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Feb 1994 12:21:00 -0800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Kerry Clark 784-2225 fax (604) 784 2299" Subject: Re: boiling-lye sanitization of comb frames Whoa! I'm no expert on this, and perhaps one of our NZ contributors will provide some references (I know it's been written up several times) but I think there's some misunderstanding here. The common practice in NZ involves immersion of boxes (not frames) in liquid paraffin wax, not lye. I've heard of the boiling lye water treatment for frames, as an old and unsuitable technique. Apparently the treatment weakened the wood too much. Would you really consider rewiring or re-nailing an efficient use of time? A beekeeper in southern B.C. used steam to remove wax from old frames, initially for a big lot of his own equipment, then he offered it as a service for a while, but has gone out of that business. I saw some frames that had been treated and they looked OK, but I hadn't seen them "before". I glad to see you'll get it straight before you commit to a lot of work. Kerry Clark, Apiculture Specialist B.C. Ministry of Agriculture 1201 103 Ave Dawson Creek B.C. V1G 4J2 CANADA Tel (604) 784-2225 fax (604) 784-2299 INTERNET KCLARK@GALAXY.GOV.BC.CA ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Feb 1994 10:07:16 +1100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Robert Rice Subject: Re: boiling-lye sanitization of comb frames In-Reply-To: <9402072103.AA01166@spider.ento.csiro.au> from "Kerry Clark 784-2225 fax" at Feb 7, 94 12:21:00 pm > > Whoa! > I'm no expert on this, and perhaps one of our NZ contributors will provide some > references (I know it's been written up several times) but I think there's some > misunderstanding here. > > The common practice in NZ involves immersion of boxes (not frames) in liquid > paraffin wax, not lye. > > I've heard of the boiling lye water treatment for frames, as an old and > unsuitable technique. Apparently the treatment weakened the wood too much. > Would you really consider rewiring or re-nailing an efficient use of time? > > A beekeeper in southern B.C. used steam to remove wax from old frames, initially > for a big lot of his own equipment, then he offered it as a service for a while, > but has gone out of that business. I saw some frames that had been treated and > they looked OK, but I hadn't seen them "before". > > I glad to see you'll get it straight before you commit to a lot of work. > > Kerry Clark, Apiculture Specialist On the subject of treating boxes for preservation/sterilization. For many years (30 plus) it was our practice to boil new unpainted bee boxes in a mixture of 10% micro-crystaline wax and 90% paraffin wax for approximately 10 minutes, then while the box was still very hot (ie as soon as the excess wax had drained) to paint the box with a water based acrylic paint. The original logic (from New Zealand) was to preserve the box from wood rot, pine being the most common source of material from box construction. However, because of the nature of the process it is most beneficial as a means of sterilisation. As a standard maintance program, we tried to treat all hives with this process about every 5 years or so to maintain equipment in good order and decrease\remove infectious material from colonies. Any material not killed by the heat treatment becomes locked away under a new coat of wax. As for the recycling of frames. An idea originally from Tasmania (Our Australian Island State) was to use a large stainless steel box insulated on the outside and heated internally by a pyrotanichs cable to 100 degrees centigrade. In side the box was suspended a stainless steel basket in which frames and other material were placed and heated for 24 hours. Melted wax from the frames wood collect in the bottom of the box under the basket and be recovered by pouring into molds, the remaining material was removed from the frames and the frames scraped clean. Often it was not necessary to rewire frames by using this technique. This process also provided a high degree of sterilisation by its very nature of operation. Additionally it only took about 1hr to clean out and refill the "hot box", so the time spent was minimal for the amount of gear recovered. You also only loose about 1 - 2% of the wax in the frames (caught up in the rubbish still remaining in the frames). When we used a wood fired boiler for our honey extraction operations, we used this waste material as a substitute fuel in place of wood. The waste material combusts very well and leaves a fine powder residue. This equipment was also useful in cleaning up possible infections. Hives (bees and all) that died for no obvious reason or we sick could be placed in the heated box for 48 hrs to be sterilised with full recovery of equipment and wax. Incidently, often honey would be in frames that were melted down when an entire colony was processed. The honey seperates from the wax but is heat darkened. We use to sell this honey to a person who used it as bird food for parrots. Robert Rice CSIRO Division of Entomology Canberra Australia. E-mail robertr@ento csiro.au ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Feb 1994 17:48:00 CST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: tdahms@SLEDGE-PO.WEEG.UIOWA.EDU Subject: Iowa Beekeepers newsletter-Feb. 94 Submitted by: Terry Dahms East Central Iowa Beekeepers Assoc. internet: terry-dahms@uiowa.edu ------------------------------------------------------------------- THE BUZZ FEBRUARY, 1994 ------------------------------------------------------------------- A newsletter published monthly as a cooperative effort by The Iowa Department of Agriculture and Land Stewardship and The Iowa Honey Producers Association (IHPA), an affiliate member of the Iowa Horticultural Society. Copy deadline is the 20th of each month. Your ideas, comments and letters are welcomed and encouraged. EDITOR: Bob Cox, State Apiarist, Iowa Dept. of Agriculture, Wallace Building, Des Monies, IA. 50319 Phone: (515) 281-5736. IHPA MEMBERSHIP: Membership dues in the Iowa Honey Producers Assn. are $5.00/year. Send to Gordon Powell, IHPA Treasurer. ------------------------------------------------------------------- STATE APIARIST REPORT I can see Spring coming. Can you? When the days start getting longer and we see the sunshine as much as we have seen it lately, even though it is still very cold, I start looking forward and planning for the Spring activities in the beeyard. I hope you are thinking of what to do with your beekeeping this Spring. February is a great time to work on beekeeping equipment. You know, all those special feeders you planned to build sometime, those honey supers that need painting and maybe those old combs with all the drone cells that need to be cut out and replaced with foundation. Be very careful when melting beeswax because of the fire hazard. Just ask Paul Goossen (No offense, Paul). Don't miss your local beekeepers association meetings or maybe take a beekeeping class this Spring. Read those back issues of bee magazines and newsletters for new ideas on how to manage your colonies and your business. Be sure to order your packages and queens early so you will have priority on the shipping dates you want. I would advise you to request Apistan queen tabs and package strips in the bees you order. If you, yourself, transport packages, nucs, colonies or used beekeeping equipment with comb into Iowa from another state, you must apply for an Entry Permit. To obtain an Entry Permit application form contact the State Apiarist Office in Des Moines (515) 281-5736. Plan for how much equipment you will need for the number of colonies you plan to have. Each colony should have a queen excluder, if you use them and at least three supers. Be sure you have some sort of feeder for each colony this spring. Procure any Terramycin, Fumadil-B, Apistan strips or menthol crystals that you need to treat your colonies for diseases and mites. Set yourself deadlines and mark your calendar so that you can manage your bees efficiently this year. Like Mark Twain said "Everybody talks about the weather, but no does anything about it." So if you can't control the weather, control the things you can by planning and getting everything ready ahead of time. A HONEY OF A VERSE "How sweet are Your words to my taste, Sweeter than HONEY to my mouth!" (Psalm 105:103) 4TH ANNUAL CENTRAL IOWA BEEKEEPERS AUCTION Saturday, April 23rd the Central Iowa Beekeepers Association will hold their annual auction at Spencer Apiaries in Cambridge. Consignments will be made in the order they are received. Contact Margaret Hala, 1988 Vine Ave., Marshalltown, Iowa 50158 (515) 752-2981. Watch future issues of THE BUZZ for item listings, time and other details. NOTICE: Live bees may be sold at the auction. Bees will be located in a nearby beeyard and available for examination by prospective buyers from 9:00 - 10:00 a.m. the day of the sale only. Colonies offered for sale must be state-inspected before the auction. AFRICANIZED BEES AND WHERE TO PURCHASE QUEENS - Bob Cox I hate to even approach the subject of where to purchase queens in light of the spread of Africanized Bees in the U.S. However, I am getting repeated questions along this line. First of all, I don't make recommendations for where to buy queens. Obviously, there are many good and a few poor queen producers located all over the South and California. Because queens mate in the open, there is always a chance the queens may mate with drones of undesirable parentage. However, queen and package producers have a lot of incentive to weed out colonies with bad characteristics near their mating yards. I believe market conditions will eventually eliminate bad tempered bees with swarming tendencies and "runny" behavior on the comb. Although swarms of Africanized honey bees (AHB) have been found in Texas, New Mexico, Arizona and on the border with California, to the best of my knowledge, there have been no AHB detections in counties where queen breeders are located in these states. If AHBs continue to spread and move into queen rearing areas, we should know in the next five years what impact they will have on the queen and package supply in the U.S. IOWA FRUIT AND VEGETABLE GROWERS MEETING The Iowa Honey Producers Association will have a display booth at the Iowa Fruit and Vegetable Growers Association Annual Conference February 11th and 12th in Des Moines to promote "Honey Bee Pollination" and beekeeping. A recently prepared Information Sheet on Bee Pollination will be handed out to growers attending the conference. This Information Sheet is printed on pages 7 & 8. VOLUNTEERS NEEDED People with experience in beeswax crafts, honey cooking and any other bee-related skills are needed to help with "Honey of Weekend" activities at the Des Moines Botanical Center March 19 and 20. Susan Ferguson, education director at the Botanical Center, is organizing this event to promote and educate the public about honey, bees and beekeeping. She is going to tell bee-related stories and teach songs about bees. Their horticulturist is planting a bee/herb garden with plants attractive to honey bees. They would like someone to demonstrate how to make different kinds of beeswax candles, other beeswax crafts, cooking with honey, skep making or any other bee-related crafts. The Iowa Honey Producers can also sell any honey and other bee products (bee pins or other jewelry, cookbooks, etc.). REGISTER FOR SPRING BEEKEEPING CLASS IN DES MOINES Starting on Thursday, March 10, 1994 a beekeeping class will be offered by the Iowa Department of Agriculture in cooperation with Polk county ISU Extension service. It will be held every Thursday night for 8 weeks at the Des Moines Botanical Center. This will be an in-depth class covering a variety of topics on beekeeping for fun and profit. Each class session will last from 7:00 - 8:30 p.m. Do you have friends or relatives who have expressed a desire to get into beekeeping sometime? Suggest they take this class or better yet, take it with them. The class will include hands-on experience in the classroom and during four field trips. Those interested in starting with bees, novice beekeepers and even seasoned beekeepers are all welcome to participate. Preregistration is required by February 28th and a registration fee will be charged. For details and a registration form contact Bob Cox, State Apiarist, Iowa Department of Agriculture, Wallace Building, Des Moines, Iowa 50319 telephone (515) 281-5736 or Mohamad Kahn, ISU Extension, (515) 270-8114. CALENDAR OF EVENTS FEBRUARY 11 & 12 Iowa Fruit and Vegetables Growers Meeting at the Crystal Inn in Des Moines. Contact Bob Cox for more info. 28 Registration deadline for SRPING BEEKEEPING CLASS MARCH 12 IHPA Board Meeting 1:00 p.m. at Royal Cafe in Huxley. 14 Eastcentral Iowa Beekeepers Assn. Meeting 7:00 p.m. at Montgomery Hall, Johnson County Fairgrounds, Iowa City. 19 Central Iowa Beekeepers Assn. Meeting. 5:30 p.m. Buffet dinner. 6:30 p.m. Meeting (Election of Officers). Royal Cafe in Huxley. DIRECTIONS: Take Hwy. 210 exit from I-35 and go west to U.S. Hwy. 69. Go north to Huxley one mile, then through town to the shopping center on the east side of the highway. 19 & 20 "A Honey of a Weekend" - Des Moines Botanical Center, 909 East River Drive, Des Moines. Come and enjoy a foretaste of spring, bee crafts, bee stories and songs, a bee herb display, and other honey bee related activities for all ages, all under the dome. OPEN: 10:00 a.m. to 5:00 p.m. 26 Southwest Wisconsin Honey Producers Meeting. 9:00 a.m.- 3:00 p.m. Metz Honey Farm. Hwy 61 North of Kieler, WI (just across the river from Dubuque, Iowa) Potluck meal at lunch time. FOR SALE: 80 - 6 5/8" honey supers w/9 frames of drawn comb, frame spacers in supers. $3.75 @ Contact: Monroe or Janet Neihart, College Spring (near Clarinda) (712) 582-3200. FOR SALE: Packaged Bees - 2 lbs. with Queen $23.50; 3 lbs. with Queen $26.50; All packed with Apistan (TM) strips; To be picked up at Aurora, Iowa mid April. Contact: Douglas Child (319) 634-3682. FOR SALE: Complete bee operation - 100 two-story hives with bees plus equipment for 150 colonies. Call Bill Eickholt (712) 225-5207. FOR SALE: Clover Honey in Barrels or Pails. Call Lapp's Bee Supply Center. 1-800-321-1960. FEBRUARY IS A SWEET TIME TO INITIATE A HONEY QUEEN PROGRAM Now is the time to talk to a young lady about being a Honey Queen. It is wise to get started early when she is 13 to 16 years old. Prepare her by teaching her about beekeeping and honey for a year or two so that she is knowledgeable before she is considered for the honey queen. You may use the display ad below to recruit. Paul Goossen, Chairman IHPA Honey Queen Committee RR 1, Box 83-A Homestead, IA 52236 (319) 622-6410 HONEYBEE POLLINATION OF FRUITS AND VEGETABLES IN IOWA Successful crop pollination is a partnership between the pollinator (honey bee, usually) and the flower; beekeepers and growers. Cooperation is the key word here. The grower and beekeeper must understand each other's needs to pollinate the crop and protect the bees. ECONOMICS Honey bees are an important part of Iowa's agro-ecosystem. Currently, about 1000 beekeepers in Iowa keep about 60,000 colonies of honey bees. The honey bees have produced an average of about five millions pounds of honey annually valued at about $2.5 million. However, honey bees are valued much more for the pollination of food crops in Iowa than for the honey that is produced. Many field and horticultural crops, home gardens and plants utilized by wildlife are dependent on honey bee pollination for the production of their fruits, nuts and seeds. The best estimate of the value of honey bee pollination in Iowa is $92.2 million annually. Honey bees increase yields of some crops (e.g. soybeans, small fruits and peppers), while apples, melons, cucumbers and squash are almost totally dependent on honey bees for the production of fruits. Strong, healthy colonies of bees are the best pollinators. Beekeeping in Iowa recently has been ravaged by parasitic mites, poor honey crops and the loss of the honey loan and buy-back program. If colonies are being rented for pollination, the profits from honey production finance the maintenance of populous, disease-free colonies during the 10 or 11 months of the year when they are not being rented. However, most of the pollination service is provided free of charge in Iowa and honey and beeswax are the only incentives for keeping bees. In any case, any threat to the beekeeping industry that reduces the number of bee colonies for pollination would adversely affect Iowa agriculture. THE POLLINATION PROCESS For bee pollination to take place, the plant must provide a food reward for the bee in the form of sweet nectar and pollen, while the bee helps the plant to set seed and reproduce. The bee transfers pollen from the anther of the flower to the stigma. Successful pollination does not imply successful fruit set. Many physical, mechanical and genetic factors can prevent fruit set. Genetic Factors It is important to understand the breeding system for each specific crop and cultivar to avoid genetic problems. Some crops will set fruit with no pollination (parthenocarpic), will self pollinate or will be wind pollinated. However, other crops are self-sterile, self-incompatible or self-fruitful and require bees to transfer pollen from another pollinizer variety for successful fruit set. Some crops have separate male and female flowers and bees must move pollen from the male flower to the female flower. SPECIFIC CROPS Tree Fruits - apples, cherries, pears, plums, apricots, peaches. Many of these fruits are self-sterile or self-incompatible and require bees to cross-pollinate between different cultivars. For example, most apple cultivars are self-incompatible and require cross-pollination for fruit set. When foraging on apples, individual honey bees often show fidelity to a particular cultivar and may establish foraging areas on a single tree. If bees move between trees, it is often down a row, rather than between rows. You might then ask, "how does cross-pollination in apples occur?" It was discovered in specialized studies examining pollen from the bee's body under an electron microscope that much of the pollen transfer occurs inside the hive. The ratio of pollinizer to main cultivar trees is very important, so that compatible pollen is not be overly diluted in the hive. Additionally, this makes the highly socialized honey bee the ideal pollinator for this crop. Recommendations vary from 1 to 3 colonies per acre for adequate pollination of these crops. Vine Crops - melons, cucumbers, pumpkins & squash. Vine crops have separate male and female flowers and bees are needed to make the pollen transfer. For example, watermelon pollination requires that at least 1000 grains of pollen be deposited on the stigma if a uniform melon is to result. Recommendations for numbers of colonies vary from one to five colonies per acre and are not precise because conditions can vary within a colony from 10,000 to 60,000 individual bees. It is recommended that a bee population that will provide one bee for each 100 flowers in a field at any particular time will be sufficient. Small Fruits - Strawberries, raspberries, blueberries. Most of the berries depend on bee pollinators to produce high yields and well-developed, full-fleshed, high-value berries. Berry flowers have many pistils and each must receive its grain of pollen before it can contribute to the size, shape and taste of the fruit to come. The central fleshy portion between the seeds does not develop in poorly pollinated areas. Blueberry flowers must be pollinated by bees or there is no fruit at all. The most predominant berry crops, strawberries and raspberries will only set small and misshapen fruit in the absence of insect pollination. Cross-pollination of berry crops are often helped with inter-plantings of two or more varieties. Catalogs descriptions should be carefully noted for pollination notices and requirements. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Feb 1994 09:35:01 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "La Reine de la Cite' des Phoques (Liz Day)" Subject: request for reference The following article is nowhere to be found sorry I have to stop system going down bye Liz Day University of Illinois at Chicago day@eecs.uic.edu ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Feb 1994 09:04:37 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jerry J Bromenshenk Subject: New Bee List I cast my vote against splitting up the list. My research brings me into contact with hundreds of beekeepers and many researhers in academia and state and federal laboratories. Often, the cross-pollination of ideas and insights have lead to the break-throughs. A case in point is the evidence for the affect of oils in the hive on the ability of tracheal mites to locate new hosts. I for one have learned as much or more from the beekeepers as from the "scientists". Two lists already exist for the more technical discussions - Southwick's Social Insects and Entomol-L. The latter has over 500 members and it can get a bit clumsy. As for "heavy" traffic on BEE-L, there have only been two times when it really got going - the little fracus before Christmas by the electronic vandals, and this discussion about making a new list. Otherwise, BEE-L is quite, it could use a little more activity. Splitting off yet another list may dilute it out of existence. Thanks for the forum. Jerry J. Bromenshenk jjbmail@selway.umt.edu (University of Montana) ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Feb 1994 09:31:10 PST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Adrian Wenner Subject: Re: New Bee List >I cast my vote against splitting up the list. My research brings me into >contact with hundreds of beekeepers and many researhers in academia and >state and federal laboratories. Often, the cross-pollination of ideas >and insights have lead to the break-throughs. A case in point is the >evidence for the affect of oils in the hive on the ability of tracheal >mites to locate new hosts. > >I for one have learned as much or more from the beekeepers as from the >"scientists". Two lists already exist for the more technical discussions >- Southwick's Social Insects and Entomol-L. The latter has over 500 >members and it can get a bit clumsy. > >As for "heavy" traffic on BEE-L, there have only been two times when it >really got going - the little fracus before Christmas by the electronic >vandals, and this discussion about making a new list. Otherwise, BEE-L >is quite, it could use a little more activity. Splitting off yet another >list may dilute it out of existence. > >Thanks for the forum. > >Jerry J. Bromenshenk >jjbmail@selway.umt.edu >(University of Montana) I agree with Jerry -- having worked for large scale commercial beekeepers and associated with amateurs, as well, it is refreshing to look in on the interchange. Many of the long-term beekeepers I have known possessed a wealth of valuable information. The converse is true -- when I pick up some valuable bit of information from the network, I can provide it to local beekeepers. With two separate lists, pressures of time constraints might pressure me to skip some potentially important messages. Adrian *************************************************************** * Adrian Wenner E-Mail wenner@lifesci.lscf.ucsb.edu * * Department of Biology Office Phone (805) 893-2838 * * University of California Lab Phone (805) 893-2838 * * Santa Barbara, CA 93106 FAX (805) 893-4724 * *************************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Feb 1994 12:45:50 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Gary S. Reuter" Subject: cleaning frames A device similar to the hot box described is available commercially from Better Way Wax Melters 116-11th St. S.E. Altoona, Iowa 50009 (515) 967-4952 They have sizes for 15 frames and up. I used it to melt a large number of brood frames I received from a beeekeeper. It worked fine. The frames could be scraped clean and reused. However I felt that new frames were worth the expense. It also does a good job of melting cappings and queen excluders. Good Luck ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Feb 1994 14:41:52 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Adam Finkelstein Subject: Re: New Bee List In-Reply-To: <199402081731.AA16024@Hopper.itc.Virginia.EDU> from "Adrian Wenner" at Feb 8, 94 09:31:10 am Why is the forming of a Usenet group for beekeeping regarded as splitting or lessening Bee-l? One may subscribe to Bee-l and also receive Usenet. One may write to Bee-l, and post articles on Usenet. More area for discussion seems to be a positive thing. Adam -- =============================================================================== Adam Finkelstein VDACS Apiary Inspector 116 Reservoir St Harrisonburg VA 22801 703-433-1006 (V) 703-434-5607 (Fax) 703-564-4394 (Pager) adamf@hopper.itc.virginia.edu adamf@vtaix.cc.vt.edu |Bees To Please| ================================================================================ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Feb 1994 13:47:54 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jerry J Bromenshenk Subject: Re: New Bee List My problem is the same as Adrian Wenner's, maybe worse. I run statewide research and educational programs and subscribe to three "professional" lists. Toggling among lists takes time. I average 50-150 mail messages per day from my statewide duties. As such, I belong to the lumper class, one more list and I will start dropping some. I probably would not monitor a basic beekeeping recreational list, yet I hate to not have beekeeper input. I don't see any reason why a beekeeper wouldn't have some interest in more technical issues - after all, many earn their living this way. As a former rancher, I would not have passed up the opportunity to talk directly to the researchers. To date I haven't noticed anything so technical that a beekeeper couldn't handle it with ease. (Unless I am so used to the jargon that I have lost touch with reality). Basically, it may be the lazy approach, but one list makes more sense to me than several. Thanks Jerry Bromenshenk jjbmail@selway.umt.edu The University of Montana On Tue, 8 Feb 1994, Adam Finkelstein wrote: > Why is the forming of a Usenet group for beekeeping regarded as > splitting or lessening Bee-l? One may subscribe to Bee-l and also receive > Usenet. One may write to Bee-l, and post articles on Usenet. > More area for discussion seems to be a positive thing. > Adam > > -- > =============================================================================== > Adam Finkelstein VDACS Apiary Inspector 116 Reservoir St Harrisonburg VA 22801 > 703-433-1006 (V) 703-434-5607 (Fax) 703-564-4394 (Pager) > adamf@hopper.itc.virginia.edu adamf@vtaix.cc.vt.edu |Bees To Please| > ================================================================================ > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Feb 1994 19:51:55 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Jim G. Shoemaker" Subject: Help Needed I am a member of the Springfield, MO area beekeepers association. We are planning a training program to promote beekeeping in southwest Missouri. We solicit your assistance for suggestions, ideas, materials, etc.. Any help will be appreciated. Jim Shoemaker 5160 S. Western Brookline, MO 65619 (417) 887 0225 jshoemak.ozarks.sgcl.lib.mo.us ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Feb 1994 22:17:31 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Sorin Damian Subject: Re: New Bee List Sorry to interfere1 Which is the server for entomo-l and social insects? Any feedback will be appreciated. sorin_d@pavo.concordia.ca ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Feb 1994 21:39:39 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "La Reine de la Cite' des Phoques (Liz Day)" Subject: request for reference I hate to bug the list with this, but I've been having a devil of a time obtaining the following article; (the library says they cannot obtain it from anywhere as the citation is wrong, but even if they could, they will not xerox the entire thing for some reason, the story goes on and on).... Does anyone know 1) if this citation is correct or, possibly, have a copy of this that they'd be willing to mail me? (I would pay postage, xerox you an extra one, whatever you want.) Ito, M. 1985. Supraspecific classification of bumblebees based on the characters of male genitalia. Contrib. from the Institute of Low Temperature Science, series B. Issue 20:1-143. It comes from the Univ. of Hokkaido. It's supposed to be about Bombus subgenera. (What that has to do with low temperature science is anyone's guess!) thanks, Liz Day University of Illinois at Chicago day@eecs.uic.edu ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Feb 1994 22:29:14 -0800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: John Robert Bidleman Subject: Re: New Bee List In-Reply-To: <199402081942.AA03250@crl.crl.com> On Tue, 8 Feb 1994, Adam Finkelstein wrote: > Why is the forming of a Usenet group for beekeeping regarded as > splitting or lessening Bee-l? One may subscribe to Bee-l and also receive > Usenet. One may write to Bee-l, and post articles on Usenet. > More area for discussion seems to be a positive thing. > Adam > I feel that if people were more judicious about what they used this list for, this new-list discussion wouldn't be ongoing. A beekeeper IS by functional definition a "bee biologist" in many ways. I have been keeping bees for close to 20 years and although I am new to this list I have already learned a few things about Apis Mell. (and about people). If there are a large number of people who are interested in public postings of "pop-up" books and the like then perhaps a second group would be wise. (I've seen the book...love it but don't want to delete post after post because others don't know how to toggle a personal reply as opposed to replying to the entire list). I wouldn't dream of subscribing to a list on Tibetan Buddhism and then start posting queries about where to find a good Tibetan Buddhist "church". (or pop-up books on the Dalai Lama). This type of list (or usenet etc) will NEVER supplant; the yellow pages, a quick search through the library or common sense. Those who do a little research beforehand will get a LOT more out of the list and acrue the gratitude of everyone else. jrb ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Feb 1994 12:55:10 +0100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Bruzzi Giacomo Subject: GET LOG9401 GET-L LOG9401 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Feb 1994 03:58:37 -0800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: John Robert Bidleman Subject: Re: GET LOG9401 In-Reply-To: <199402091153.AA10288@crl.crl.com> Hello...BRUZZI! I received your post late night here in California and it reminded me of my friends in Italy...are you a beekeeper or a biologist? What part of Italy are you living? Ciao Faneloni ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Feb 1994 12:07:28 WET Reply-To: MunnPA@cardiff.ac.uk Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Dr Pamela Munn Subject: Re: Help Needed In-Reply-To: ; from "Jim G. Shoemaker" at Feb 8, 94 7:51 pm > > > I am a member of the Springfield, MO area beekeepers association. We are > planning a training program to promote beekeeping in southwest Missouri. > > We solicit your assistance for suggestions, ideas, materials, etc.. > > Any help will be appreciated. > > Jim Shoemaker > 5160 S. Western > Brookline, MO 65619 > (417) 887 0225 > jshoemak.ozarks.sgcl.lib.mo.us > IBRA has an extensive list of books and visual aids (slide sets, posters etc) available. If you would like our list contact Nina Gibson - fax on +44 222 665522. Pam Munn _____________________________________________________________________________ | E-mail : MunnPA@Cardiff.AC.UK | Mail: IBRA, | | Phone : +44 222 372409 | 18, North Road, | | Fax : +44 222 665522 | Cardiff, | |---------------------------------------| South Glamorgan | | Please state if the message is for | CF1 3DY | | someone else within IBRA | United Kingdom | |_______________________________________|___________________________________| ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Feb 1994 14:45:28 WET Reply-To: MunnPA@cardiff.ac.uk Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Dr Pamela Munn Subject: Re: request for reference-got it! In-Reply-To: ; from "La Reine de la Cite' des Phoques" at Feb 8, 94 9:39 pm > > > I hate to bug the list with this, but I've been having a devil of > a time obtaining the following article; (the library says they > cannot obtain it from anywhere as the citation is wrong, but > even if they could, they will not xerox the entire thing for > some reason, the story goes on and on).... > > > Does anyone know 1) if this citation is correct > or, possibly, have a copy of this that they'd be willing to > mail me? (I would pay postage, xerox you an extra one, whatever > you want.) > > > Ito, M. 1985. Supraspecific classification of bumblebees based on > the characters of male genitalia. Contrib. from the Institute of > Low Temperature Science, series B. Issue 20:1-143. > It comes from the Univ. of Hokkaido. > > It's supposed to be about Bombus subgenera. (What that has to do with > low temperature science is anyone's guess!) > > thanks, > Liz Day > > University of Illinois at Chicago > day@eecs.uic.edu >Hi Liz Yes your citation is correct - we have a copy in the IBRA library. Unfortunately its a big book so to get a photocopy you would have to go thru' our official library request route: 143 pages at 50 pence per page for non-members (half price to members). If you want more details mail me directly. Pam Munn _____________________________________________________________________________ | E-mail : MunnPA@Cardiff.AC.UK | Mail: IBRA, | | Phone : +44 222 372409 | 18, North Road, | | Fax : +44 222 665522 | Cardiff, | |---------------------------------------| South Glamorgan | | Please state if the message is for | CF1 3DY | | someone else within IBRA | United Kingdom | |_______________________________________|___________________________________| ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Feb 1994 11:35:52 AST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Blair Sampson Subject: Re: New Bee List Sorin, You could try: listserv@uacsc2.albany.edu subscribe socinsct-l I'm not sure where to find entomol-l, but it's a pretty good guess that you could also find it under listserv@uacsc2.albany.edu. Good luck -Blair "BEES OR BUST" +++++ +++ + +++ ++ .***....++........ ++ .**.********..++++++++++++.. ** *********** ****************. .*. ********** ***.**************** .**.*..****** .**...*************** ** .* **. *** ********** *. *. *. **** ****** * * ** *** ** . . * **.. ____________________________________ BLAIR SAMPSON Dept. of Biology Acadia University Wolfville, N.S. BOP 1XO, Canada 881305s@axe.acadiau.ca ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Feb 1994 08:29:35 PST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Dick Rawson Subject: Re: GET LOG9401 It would be better if you sent your note directly to Bruzzi instead of posting to the BEE-L list. Ciao, Dick ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Feb 1994 08:52:42 PST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Dick Rawson Subject: Re: GET LOG9401 How embarrassing! My apologies to Bruzzi and the net. I should have directed my comment to John Bidleman, and I used "REPLY" without noticing that the result was addressed to the List. So beware! If you use "REPLY", your note may NOT go to the address shown in the "From:" line, because Listserv is configured (for BEE-L) to include the line, "Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology ". (On the other hand, I was personally confused about who sent which note, when I directed my comment to Bruzzi Giacomo." Again, my apologies.) Regards, Dick drawson@tymnet.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Feb 1994 08:02:00 -0800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Kerry Clark 784-2225 fax (604) 784 2299" Subject: Re: beekeeper training There may be any of several levels that you were considering, but the question got me remembering some pleasant events, and I've thought through this (and applied it) a few times, so here's a progression of beekeeping training: 1) For initial exposure to recreational beekeeping; either a 1 to 2 hour survey of a beekeepers year (oriented to local conditions), with equipment display (offered as one of several similar activities), or beekeeping/honey displays refering interested people to the next level 2) a 10 hour introduction to beekeeping course, offered either in 10, 1 hour weekly night school sessions, or a weekend (2 6 hour days). Topics oriented to reflect the seasonal cycle. With either, a field experience. 3) To help associate beekeepers in a local area: field days, varied between spring (management), summer (queen rearing, honey extraction) and fall (winter prep, wax processing). These can be with or without monthly winter meetings of a local beekeeper association. 4) Ad hoc advanced seminars/workshops on specific topics: eg. queen rearing, specific diseases, feeding or wintering techniques. Some oriented to attract experienced beekeepers to add to the dialogue. 5) A regularly scheduled course oriented to confirmed beekeepers. A formula which has worked for about 40 years here, is the Beemasters Course, a 5 consecutive day, 30 hour course offered every 2 years. It has a core of basic topics presented in some depth by a circle of instructors, plus 2 or 3 guests who present their special topics (often research, but also refined management systems etc). This formula keeps up the interest among core instructors (it's also a professional development event) and has enough new material to attract repeat attendance by beekeepers. (This last item was the particular one that prompted me to respond. I really think it has been a tremendous long term benefit to the industry here, improving both the technical and the social/organizational aspects. I'm not sure if he invented it, but John Corner (our Provincial Apiculturist from 1950 to 1982) certainly intoduced and developed it to a high level, and I salute his wisdom. Many people have added to it over the years, and the course is currently in very good shape with Mark Winston at the helm. The current edition runs this month at Simon Fraser University in Burnaby, and I expect the registration of 50 will be filled, at a $ 165 fee. I recommend the structure to anyone developing a beekeeping training program.) Kerry Clark, Apiculture Specialist B.C. Ministry of Agriculture 1201 103 Ave Dawson Creek B.C. V1G 4J2 CANADA Tel (604) 784-2225 fax (604) 784-2299 INTERNET KCLARK@GALAXY.GOV.BC.CA ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Feb 1994 16:43:09 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Peter Kevan Subject: Re: New Bee List ENTOMO-L is through LISTSERV@UOGUELPH.CA It's a general entomological bulletin board, discussion network, etc. send message to LISTSERV@UOGUELPH.CA text SUBSCRIBE ENTOMO-L YOUR REAL NAME and you're on. Cheers, Peter Kevan PKEVAN@UOGUELPH.CA ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Feb 1994 18:45:45 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jack Turner Subject: SUBSCRIPTION ATTEMPTED TO SUBSCRIBE TO BEE BIOLOGY, BUT UNABLE TO GET THROUGH. PLEASE INSTRUCT. THANKS ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Feb 1994 07:41:43 MST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Nordin Zeidner Subject: Re: beekeeper training In-Reply-To: <9402101306.AA17251@lobo.rmh.pr1.k12.co.us>; from "Kerry Clark 784-2225 fax" at Feb 9, 94 8:02 am Where is this Beemasters course given and at what time of the year? How can I get course and application information? Thanks in advance, Nord Zeidner. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Feb 1994 16:54:33 +0100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Bruzzi Giacomo Subject: Varroa mite Hello everybody! I'm a new entry in BEE-L and an Italian amateur beekeeper. Last year one beekeeper friend gave me a swarm, so I built a hive and placed it in my little garden. I need simple and practicle suggestions about Varroa mite damages, particularly about natural methods of its prevention. Sorry for possible English mistakes. I'm using the Bruzzi's Internet access. Please refer to GPaolo Vigone. Thanks. Ciao. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Feb 1994 08:06:44 PST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Adrian Wenner Subject: Re: Varroa mite >Hello everybody! > >I'm a new entry in BEE-L and an Italian amateur beekeeper. > >Last year one beekeeper friend gave me a swarm, so I built a hive >and placed it in my little garden. > >I need simple and practicle suggestions about Varroa mite damages, particularly >about natural methods of its prevention. > >Sorry for possible English mistakes. > >I'm using the Bruzzi's Internet access. Please refer to GPaolo Vigone. > >Thanks. > Ciao. A book I have found particularly valuable for a picture of the overall problem might be of interest to many beekeepers and bee researchers. I offer this information because this book is not published in the mainstream. It is as follows: Mobus, Bernhard and Clive de Bruyn. 1993. THE NEW VARROA HANDBOOK. [Published by] Northern Bee Books, Scout Bottom Farm, Mytholmroyd. HX7 5JS, Great Britain. I obtained my copy from: WICWAS PRESS. P.O. Box 817-S. Cheshire, Connecticut. 06410-0817. Phone: (203) 250-7575. Good luck. Adrian M. Wenner *************************************************************** * Adrian Wenner E-Mail wenner@lifesci.lscf.ucsb.edu * * Department of Biology Office Phone (805) 893-2838 * * University of California Lab Phone (805) 893-2838 * * Santa Barbara, CA 93106 FAX (805) 893-4724 * *************************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Feb 1994 09:29:00 -0800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Paul van Westendorp 576-5600 Fax: 576-5652" Subject: Re: beekeeper training The Bee Master Course is held at Simon Fraser University, Burnaby, British Columbia, Canada, every two years and is sponsored by the B.C. Ministry of Agriculture, Fisheries & Food and Siomon Fraser University. It has been in existence for over 25 years, and has been attended by beekeepers from B.C., Alberta, Washington, Oregon, Idaho, Montana, California and Alaska. The course material deals with a full range of topics from bee breeding to legislation and the beekeper, and is intended for people with previous beekeeping experience. Guest speakers include scientists and apicultural specialists from Canada and the United States. At the end of the week-long course, a three hour exam is given. Satisfactory completion will result in the issuance of the Bee Master Certificate. The 94 Bee Master Course will be held at SFU from February 14 - 19. for further information call the Halpern Centre, SFU at (604) 291-4910 or fax (604) 291-3420. Paul van Westendorp Ph. (604) 576-5639 Provincial Apiculturist Fx. (604) 576-5652 B.C. Ministry of Agriculture, Internet: Fisheries & Food PVANWESTEN@galaxy.gov.bc.ca 17720 - 57th Avenue Surrey, B.C. CANADA V3S 4P9 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Feb 1994 11:43:00 -0800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Kerry Clark 784-2225 fax (604) 784 2299" Subject: Varroa reference book A local beekeeper or government apiculture agency may give you the best information on recommendations (and what is legal) for your area. I've tried to keep up with the varroa reference books available. In North America at least, the situation has been changing rapidly and its hard to keep up to date except by refering to periodicals. I have: Dietz and Hermann 1988 Biology Detection and Control of Varroa.. 80 p. Mobus and Connor 1988? The Varroa Handbook 52 p Mobus and de Bruyn 1993 The New Varroa Handbook 160 p (It looks to me that the Mobus part is just re typed on pages half the previous size, and the US oriented Connor segment is replaced with a UK oriented de Bruyn piece) any of the above are adequate, but have parts that may be inappropriate for a specific situation. Above any of those above, I would recommend Living with Varroa. 1993. proceedings of an IBRA symposium Nov. 92 in London. 58 p., edited by Andrew Matheson, available from IBRA UK (can be contacted on internet) good luck Kerry Clark, Apiculture Specialist B.C. Ministry of Agriculture 1201 103 Ave Dawson Creek B.C. V1G 4J2 CANADA Tel (604) 784-2225 fax (604) 784-2299 INTERNET KCLARK@GALAXY.GOV.BC.CA ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Feb 1994 14:36:19 MST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Nordin Zeidner Subject: Re: beekeeper training In-Reply-To: <9402101821.AA97008@lobo.rmh.pr1.k12.co.us>; from "Paul van Westendorp 576-5600 Fax: 576-5652" at Feb 10, 94 9:29 am Thanks very much for the information. Maybe I will take the course... nordz. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Feb 1994 16:33:27 -0500 Reply-To: adamf@hopper.itc.virginia.edu Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Adam Finkelstein Subject: RFD:sci.agriculture.beekeeping (long) In-Reply-To: <199402072308.AA30148@Hopper.itc.Virginia.EDU> from "Robert Rice" at Feb 8, 94 10:07:16 am Hello folks, latest news on the progress of a usenet group for beekeeping. The vote on a name was: total votes=20, 14 votes for sci.agriculture.beekeeping, 5 votes for rec.crafts.beekeeping, and 1 vote for both (which I did not count.) The RFD follows. thanks to all who helped, and voted. You are kind. Lets see what happens. Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,rec.gardens,rec.food.cooking,rec.food.veg, sci.agriculture,sci.bio,bionet.general,rec.pets,misc.rural,rec.food.historic, alt.sustainable.agriculture,alt.beer,rec.crafts.brewing Followup-To: news.groups Distribution: Organization: Public Access Internet at UVa. Subject: RFD: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Summary: This is a formal request for discussion on the creation of the newsgroup: sci.agriculture.beekeeping. The science and art of beekeeping spans many fields of discipline: bees are used in agriculture, science, medicine, and for enjoyment. Bees produce honey, wax, propolis, pollen, and venom. Presently on the internet there is one formal forum for bee discussion: bee-l, a listserve dedicated to discussions concerning bee biology, and beekeeping. The list handles moderate traffic, but often becomes clogged during active bee seasons. Bee-l has a scientific tone, and although encourages beekeeping questions, tends to have biology as its theme. Beekeeping is _applied_ biology. A beekeeper might have bee questions or questions concerning where to obtain wood and glue for beehive manufacture. Beekeeping lore and technique often is the antithesis of bee biology! Beekeeping is practiced throughout the world. Colony management, parasite control, honey extraction and packaging, wax rendering, marketing of hive products and public relations are all componets of beekeeping. These topics although possibly addressed in bee-l often require lengthly discussions. "Which honey tastes better?" or "How do I re-heat honey that is crystallized?" "How much should I charge for a one pound jar of honey?" These are beekeeper questions or questions concerning beekeepers' products and not bee biology. Sci.agriculture.beekeeping would contain these discussions well and relieve the congestion of the bee-l during active beekeeping seasons. Bee management is controversial, dynamic and the laws, policies and techniques vary from region to region, as do beekeepers themselves. Bees kept in Arizona react differently to a management technique than bees kept in southern Germany. Since beekeeping lately has been inundated with difficulties ranging from parasitic bee mites to cut throat marketing tactics, beekeepers need an area on the internet that may cover all this information. Bee-l the bee biology listserve attempts to do this now, and if it was successful, I would not be posting this RFD. The creation of sci.agriculture.beekeeping would allow beekeepers access to bee information other than specific bee biology, while allowing the bee biology listserve to function. One would compliment the other. Beekeeping and bee biology are interrelated but not the same. To be a good beekeeper, one needs as much information as possible. The creation of the usenet group: sci.agriculture.beekeeping, would enhance beekeepers' knowledge in conjunction with the bee-l, or the bee biology listserve. Discussion of this proposal will occur in news.groups starting at the time this posting and lasting 30 days. Adam -- =============================================================================== Adam Finkelstein VDACS Apiary Inspector 116 Reservoir St Harrisonburg VA 22801 703-433-1006 (V) 703-434-5607 (Fax) 703-564-4394 (Pager) adamf@hopper.itc.virginia.edu adamf@vtaix.cc.vt.edu |Bees To Please| ================================================================================ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Feb 1994 22:10:00 GMT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: ANDY NACHBAUR Subject: Varroa mite GPaolo Vigone wrote +-------------------------------+ ###From: ###Subject: Varroa mite ###Date: Thu, 10 Feb 1994 16:54:33 +0100 ### ###I need simple and practicle suggestions about Varroa mite damages, particu ###about natural methods of its prevention. ### ###I'm using the Bruzzi's Internet access. Please refer to GPaolo Vigone. +-------------------------------+ Hello GPaolo Vigone! As long a your hive is healthy with a young queen I would do nothing but observe the bees and their relationship with the mites. That is what I have been doing for several years as my neighbors use chemicals to treat. After many treatments several of these beekeepers who keep their bees in the same area as I do, or within a few miles, got together and ran some samples on my hives for mites, at the same time they did the same on their own. The results were that they found out my bees DID have mites. They also found out something they did not want to find out. My bees had no more mites then their own, and in most cases less. My own bees have never been treated, most others in this area have been treated for three seasons and some twice per season. It has been predicted by many in the know that all my bees are going to die. I have found out from forty seasons of working with bees in this area that if you do not continuously replace failing hives with new, that they will all die withing three to four years. The mites have not changed this in any way that I can see. This is not to say that mites are good for bees. What I have seen is that hives that one would expect to decline from what ever cause, that have v. mites, will have them when the hive dies, if nothing is done to reverse that decline and the hive dies. I have yet to see anything that would give me concern that the v. mites are adding to the number of hives that die or are replaced each year, or that number would be any less if more attention were paid to mites. What I have written here is considered as blasphemous by most beekeepers and I have paid a high price within the industry for saying almost the same about my experience with t. mites and challenging the destruction of thousands of hives of bees because they contained mites. My opinion has not changed, bees will have pests, and well meaning beekeepers will spend millions to control them, and bees will have pests. A healthy dog suffers little from fleas, I believe hives that are healthy in all other respects suffer little from mites. Only time will tell, until then I suffer the little barbs and arrows of my fellows, as I know I have looked into more beehives and have seen many wonderful interesting things in my beehives the last forty years then most any two beekeepers and hope to continue, if my bees don't all die.. CIAO __ __ / \ \^+^/ / \ Andy Nachbaur, SYS-OP \ \(O O)/ / Wild Bee's BBS 209-826-8107 \ \\_// //-->> BEENET.COM -----------------oOO--Y--OOo------------------------------------ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Feb 1994 22:24:08 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jackie McMillan Subject: Re: New Bee List Hello, All. As a recent addition to this list (I started participating in Oct.), and as someone fairly new to both bee research and beekeeping, I would like to add my voice to the fray. There has been very little on bee-line that wasn't immediately understandable posted, and anything that was confusing has been clarified within one or two responses. Had I not been told about this list by a bee researcher, I doubt I would ever have found it, since I am also new to electronic networks, and had turned up very little of use through gophers and key word searches. I think that the community currently on this list is small enough that the "traffic" is courteous, helpful, and not too time-consuming. However, that may be because there is little knowledge that it is here. I think the idea of developing a FAQ is an excellent one, and I would like to see the FAQ available, along with some reference to beeline, through related conferences and other forums. However, I think that the dialogue between practitioners and researchers is invaluable to both parties, that creating a separate "hobby only" forum may decrease necessary communication which maintains the relevance of research and serves the needs of beekeepers. Tracking list traffic is very time-consuming; I would much rather have one list per interest area to follow. Is anyone interested in simply making bee-line better known and more accessible through some sort of generalized postings? Isn't there already enough factionalization of knowledge and communication going on? Jackie ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Feb 1994 22:11:26 -0800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: John Robert Bidleman Subject: Re: beekeeper training In-Reply-To: <199402101817.AA00499@crl.crl.com> I got a lot of garbage characters interfering with the address for information on the Bee-Masters course and would like to post it on the local Supply bulletin board can you send me info on how to get registered? robbee@crl.com Thanks ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Feb 1994 23:06:17 -0800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: John Robert Bidleman Subject: Re: New Bee List In-Reply-To: <199402110324.AA05112@crl.crl.com> On Thu, 10 Feb 1994, Jackie McMillan wrote: > Hello, All. > As a recent addition to this list (I started participating in Oct.), and > as someone fairly new to both bee research and beekeeping, I would like to > Tracking list traffic is very time-consuming; I would much rather have > one list per interest area to follow. Is anyone interested in simply > making bee-line better known and more accessible through some sort of > generalized postings? Isn't there already enough factionalization of > knowledge and communication going on? > > Jackie > I am also new to internet but not to beekeeping. Before I subscribed to a list I purchased 1) a book on the internet 2) a directory of the internet 1) was invaluable in getting around the net 2) had a list of lists (also available on about EVERY BBS I have ever been on, not to mention nodes). The first thing I looked under was "B" for bees and there it was...BEE-L I don't think we need to advertise...yet. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Feb 1994 08:35:16 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "James E. Hoyt" Subject: Internet Resources A general source of information on the internet can be found via ftp to NIC.MERIT.EDU Two directories of especial interest are: INTRODUCING.THE.INTERNET and INTERNET Included in these directories is the original Zen and the Art of Internet as well as Mac and Windows tutorials on cruising the internet. I realize many of us are old hands at this, but some of us have recently commented about being new. And even old hands can learn new tricks (at least this one can!) Access to NIC.MERIT.EDU is via anonymous ftp using your net id as password. The particulars will depend on the system you're using. Regards Jim ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Feb 1994 08:41:14 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jerry J Bromenshenk Subject: Re: Varroa mite Andy: Interesting observations - give me one more field season and I will tell you whether our field trials support your viewpoint. So far, I find that I differ with most mite reseachers in that our research and model both suggest that mite numbers oscillate like a roller-coaster. In addition, when the mite numbers in untreated hives peak, down goes the colony. However, this may be a chicken-egg issue. Did the mites increase and as such contribute to the loss of the bees, or was the colony failing and as such were predisposed to mites?? Don't know. What I do know is that I would not spend much time trying to put the last decimel point on how many mites are in the hive or how many bees infested - 1 the numbers can change dramatically from day to day, 2 colonies with lots of mites suddenly turn up without mites, while colonies with few mites suddenly get over-run. The counting portions of our model suggest that there is a very dynamic interaction going on between mites and bees. The development time of the two is that when they are out of synchrony, things slow down and the bees more or less dilute the mites out. If they get in synchrony, the mites can quickly outpace the bees. Jerry Bromenshenk P.S. What software do you use to run your B.B.S. and what kind of computer are you running it on?? P.P.S. I will be very interested to see what kind of response your message gets from the List. jjb@selway.umt.edu ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Feb 1994 11:56:27 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Dave D. Cawley, a De Leon Socialist" Subject: Yugoslavian Bees Hi, This one's for the researchers...Have any of you had any experience with the newly approved Yugoslavian bees? If so, other than mite resistance what are some of the other characteristics and would they be good for a novice? And anything else you want to throw in. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Dave D. Cawley | University Of Scranton | ddc1@jaguar.uofs.edu | ddc1@SCRANTON | ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Feb 1994 12:08:23 -500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Chris Conroy Subject: Re: Yugoslavian Bees It is my understanding that there are only 16 sites that have the Yugo bees. Is this true? CC ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Feb 1994 09:45:00 -0800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Paul van Westendorp 576-5600 Fax: 576-5652" Subject: Re: beekeeper training For information on the Bee Master Course, please submit your name and mailing address and I will sent a application & agenda by mail. Note that this bi-annual week long course will be held February 14 - 19, 1994 (ie. next week!) at Simon Fraser University, Burnaby, British Columbia, Canada. The next one will be held in February 1996. But please do not despair, a similar course will be offered at the University of Guelph, Ontario, in March 1995. For further information contact Dr. C. Scott-Dupree (CSDUPREE@evbhort.uoguelph.ca) Paul van Westendorp Internet: PVANWESTEN@galaxy.gov.bc.ca Provincial Apiculturist B.C. Ministry of Agriculture, Fisheries & Food 17720 - 57th Avenue Surrey, B.C., V3S 4P9 CANADA ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Feb 1994 15:27:24 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: David Schmitt Subject: Pollination (fwd) Hello everyone- After reading through all the discussion lately about the volume of mail you all have been recieving, I am certainly sensitive to considering whether or not a message I may send is appropriate - and I hope that I am not violating any etiquite but I wanted to get some of your expert opinions on a subject I'm sure many of you are interested in. Recently our apple crop discussion group has had some discussion about what we should be recommending for the number of hives per acre. there is concern among some in the industry that feral bee populations are absent or declining, and there is concern also that our current recommendations may not be adequate for high density plantings of 500 or 1,000 or more trees per acre. I wanted to get the perspective of the beekeeper to send back to the group. We would greatly appreciate any comments that you may have. Some of the concerns expressed by our group: The following comments are from John Ridley, Emeritus Professor, Horticulture and from Mike Hood, Extension Apiculturist, Clemson University. I forwarded the question to them and wanted to share their response with the group. In upstate South Carolina, we have a serious problem with a lack of feral honey bees. I have noticed this for several years. Ten years ago, I could go to my research peach orchard near Clemson during full bloom and hear the bees from the truck. Now, even on a calm, sunny day with temperatures in the upper 70's I have to check four or five trees before I see a honey bee. I have also noticed this at my home in Clemson on various shrubs that are highly attractive to honey bees during bloom. I agree with Mike's comments about needing much more information about the whole system. Clyde S. Gorsuch Extension Entomologist Clemson Univ. - Entomology Dept. Phone: 803 656-5043 109 Long Hall FAX: 803 656-5065 Box 340365 Internet: CGRSCH@clust1.clemson.edu Clemson, SC 29634-0365 ******************************************************************************* From: EUREKA::JRIDLEY "John Ridley" 7-JAN-1994 16:18:05.28 I think the 1 hive to 1 acre is not enough if we experience poor pollination weather. We had all of the wild bees to help and now those are gone. Seems that the more bees the larger the apples. Need all the king blooms to set. +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ From: EUREKA::MHOOD "Mike Hood" 17-JAN-1994 14:44:48.70 I recommend 1-2 bee colonies per acre of trees. This is not based on field studies, but has been gleaned from growers and beekeepers. Oconee Co. growers come up short on this recommendation. They grow the 27-30 tress per acre. Many I suspect are not getting sufficient pollination. Feral colonies are almost non-existent. On the other hand, our large Granny Smith apple producer have the modern planting method on trellis. Last year they rented 400-450 colonies for their 650-700 acres of apples. Had good production, I thought for S.C. The operation has a new manager this year and I'm not sure of his pollination plans. We need more factual information to base our recommendation in the apple area as well as the Strawberry, Watermelon, Cucumber, etc. I highly suspect our total insect pollinator populations have decloined over the past 3-4 decades due to pesticide use and feel certain that our honey bee feral colonies have been effected by Tracheal and Varroa Mites over the past 5 years. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Feb 1994 17:15:00 GMT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: ANDY NACHBAUR Subject: Re: Varroa mite Jerry J Bromenshenk wrote +-------------------------------+ ###Subject: Re: Varroa mite ###Date: Fri, 11 Feb 1994 08:41:14 -0700 ### ###Interesting observations - give me one more field season and I will tell ###you whether our field trials support your viewpoint. ### ###P.P.S. I will be very interested to see what kind of response your ###message gets from the List. +-------------------------------+ Hi Jerry, I am using a 486-33 cpu, and the Wild Cat software for the bbs. I will be watching for your report or paper on mites. I have followed the literature since day one, and find the v. mites a very interesting study creature. So much of the negative effects of this mite has been written it has replaced that "bad feeling in the gut" one use to get when one had not visited a bee yard for several weeks and expected to find them all dead from pesticide misuse. That was very common around here for several years. So far, it has not been from real mites losses, but I do get that "gut ache" when I go into a yard and find a few or lots of dead hives, which is not uncommon as our bees suffer from many thing, poor pasture being number one. I read early on about the dynamics of the v. mites, and have found that to be the one true fact in my own experience. I am beginning to believe that some hives tolerate mites more then others. These hives may be the mother hives for the mites, and supply the seed for all the other hives which may or may not tolerate them. The question may be will the bees change in a few generations to accept many mites or few mites? I can report on what I have seen, what it means is open to interpretation by all. I have seen every bad symptom reputed to be caused by mites, prior to the movement of v. to honey bees. I have also seen the proofs of heavy mite infestation, bees, queens, and all brood having mites. Combs that mites and mite fracas could be bounced out. And these have been the exception, not the rule. But I have yet to see a healthy hive with mites "crash".. I have neighbors who have lost large numbers of hives from what they think were v. mites. One is the largest producer in California and my good friend with whom I was able to check some of these yards several months prior to their death. It was true they had v. mites, I believe they died. He believes they died from mites and now treats, he still has loss, and mites. I don't know if mites caused or contributed to the loss of the hives I looked at. If these same hives did not have mites at the time I looked at them I would have predicted that they would have died. After 40 seasons in a poor area for bees, pesticides, droughts, over crowding, and you name it, I have found that keeping bees is fraught with disaster. It was a lot easier in the old days to blame AFB in my hives on my neighbors. Now it is easy to point the finger of disaster at one flavor of mites or another. I do believe that there is a bogeyman out there in my bees, but I don't think its been properly identified or something we can do much about but keep replacing our losses. ttul Andy- ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 12 Feb 1994 04:53:50 -0800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: John Robert Bidleman Subject: Re: Varroa mite In-Reply-To: <199402121224.AA03483@crl.crl.com> Well I second your emotion Andy...about the misplaced "Bogeyman" but... I live in Sonoma county and I have watched with interest the wild bee populations around my ranch now for about seven years or more. They have always seemed to be on a slight increase...even with a terrible winter or two. (One that killed off a lot of eucalyptus) The only problem is that about 3 years ago I noticed the bee trees my daughter and I used to visit were increasingly empty. I didn't put much stock in the mites as my grandfather used to say healthy bees will survive just about anything. He put oil of peppermint in the water and checked for weak hives and replacing when necessarry (no matter what) made it a moot point what caused the problem. AFB was dealt with and life went on. But what I have been seeing is really disturbing; the feral bee population is DOWN. Over about a 300 acre parcel I used to roam (part of it on BLM) I can find no colonies. Seven years ago I counted five. This morning I watched a measly five to ten bees work an acacia that by now would be crawling with bees and that with ten kept hives a quarter of a mile away. The russian river area by Alexander Valley is practcally devoid of bees. So, regardless of what is going on...SOMETHING is happening. I won't say it is Mites and I won't say it's not. Got any other clues? jrb ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 12 Feb 1994 13:13:47 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "JONATHAN B. SIMKINS 4AG ENTOMOLOGY/NEMATOLOGY" Subject: INFORMATION i I Nneed information o n the history of varroa mite. I am a student at the uniUniversity of Florida Entomology and\nNematology. Alosso needing i nformatiuontion on how to get onto the ento-list or better yet the bee- list. can you t. Can you help med? ? thank you Jonathan. Klabss3@gnv.ifas.ufl.edu KlbssDLBKLBSS3@IFASGNV.BITNET ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Feb 1994 09:06:26 -0200 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Zigurds Vaivods Subject: Definition of beekeeping ?! I am enjoying bees for 10 years in Latvia. I am studying climat-bees-beekeeper system, and the first step is to undersdand what does it means - beekeeping. There are several descriptions where the main thing is a result of beekeeping (bee colonies, honey, ...), without mentioning the cause of these results - climate, deseases, selection, genetics, bee forage, feeding, traveling, hives and beekeeping culture. My version speaks: Beekeeping is a struggle for intensive development of a healthy bee colony having sufficient forage and for effective application of bee activities at local climate. Other opinions? Almars Berzonis ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Feb 1994 10:23:45 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Jim G. Shoemaker" Subject: Re: Definition of beekeeping ?! In-Reply-To: <9402140708.AA25281@ozarks.sgcl.lib.mo.us> Hello Zigurds: >From a commercial beekeeper's point I would agree that it is somewhat of a struggle, however, as a sideline or hobbist I consider it more of an opportunity to view and appreciate one thrilling activity of nature. I usually havae about thirty hives. Sometimes success and othertimes marginal results. Sell my honey in the comb to a friend who is a commercial honey packer. With the tremendous reduction in wild colonies in the area, I am giving some thought to loaning/renting my bees to growers who are having trouble finding enough pollinators for their crops. If you would have time or care to, I would appreciate hearing more about beekeeping in your area and if you should like information abaout same in my corner of the world I will be pleased to reply. Jim Shoemaker 5160 S. Western Brookline, MO USA 65619 (417) 887 0225 jshoemak@ozarks,sgcl.lib.mo.us ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Feb 1994 10:25:15 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: William G Lord Subject: Northern Range of Africanized Bees I am curious to know the opinions of the research community regarding the potential range of the Africanized bee on the east coast of the U.S. I have seen a number of maps in the past, but the range seemed to vary. The discussion of river valley ranging last week prompts this inquiry. Do we have any definitive answers based on a South American model, or is such a model irrelevant in the U.S.? Thanks -- William G Lord E-Mail : wglord@franklin Internet: wglord@franklin.ces.ncsu.edu Phone : ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Feb 1994 11:20:38 PST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jane Beckman Subject: Re: Varroa mite A thought just crossed my mind. Has anyone done any studies on the effect of mites on Africanized bees, or is this an untouched area of study, so far? I find myself wondering if Africanized bees are more, or less, succeptible to mite infestation. This could change the balance of feral honeybee populations across the west/southwest, depending on what the answer is. Jane Beckman [jane@swdc.stratus.com] ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Feb 1994 13:56:16 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jerry J Bromenshenk Subject: Re: Definition of beekeeping ?! Almars: I don't pretend to know what it all means, but we have invested 5 years into building a computer simulation model that takes most of these factors into consideration in an attempt to model the population dynamics of bees and mites. We are nearly ready to beta test our latest version, which runs on IBM-compatible PC computers. Jerry Bromenshenk jjbmail@selway.umt.edu On Mon, 14 Feb 1994, Zigurds Vaivods wrote: > I am enjoying bees for 10 years in Latvia. I am studying climat-bees-beekeeper > system, and the first step is to undersdand what does it means - beekeeping. > There are several descriptions where the main thing is a result of beekeeping > (bee colonies, honey, ...), without mentioning the cause of these results - > climate, deseases, selection, genetics, bee forage, feeding, traveling, hives > and beekeeping culture. > My version speaks: > Beekeeping is a struggle for intensive development of a healthy bee colony > having sufficient forage and for effective application of bee activities > at local climate. > > Other opinions? > > Almars Berzonis > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Feb 1994 14:07:10 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Winifred Subject: Re: Definition of beekeeping ?! In-Reply-To: Message of Mon, 14 Feb 1994 13:56:16 -0700 from Bruce - The complementary strand to the primer 5'AACATTTACTGCCTCGTCTCC 3', we agree, will be3' TTGTAAATGACGGAGCAGAGG 5'. Since transcription runs 5'-->3' in terms of the newly synthesized strand, why wouldn't that leave us at its ...AAATGTT 3' end heading back toward Gertrude and away from Amy? For the newly synthesized, complementary strand to polymerize toward Amy, i.e., adding nucleotides onto its 3' end, shouldn't the primer be: 5'GGAGACGAGGCAGTAAATGTT 3'? Perhaps we are misinterpreting the sequence data you gave us. What is 5' and 3' regarding the top and bottome lines? Isn't the top line at the left the 5' end of that sequence? Please help us out. Thanks, Wink ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Feb 1994 14:33:28 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jerry J Bromenshenk Subject: Re: Varroa mite Jane, There is an entire book devoted to this topic. I have to dig a bit to get the reference. I suspect the author will pop up in a moment to answer your question. The whole idea of mites and feral bees is one that many researchers are looking at. The Tucson bee lab has had this on its agenda for some time now. You may wish to contact Dr. Loper. Unfortunately, Tucson doesn't have email. Dr. Eric Mussen (spelling??) in CA reports all feral colonies have heavy varroa infestations. He predicts Varroa may wipe them out, leaving the spaces available for Africanized bees. Jerry Bromenshenk (jjbmail@selway.umt.edu) On Mon, 14 Feb 1994, Jane Beckman wrote: > A thought just crossed my mind. Has anyone done any studies on the effect > of mites on Africanized bees, or is this an untouched area of study, so far? > > I find myself wondering if Africanized bees are more, or less, succeptible to > mite infestation. This could change the balance of feral honeybee populations > across the west/southwest, depending on what the answer is. > > Jane Beckman [jane@swdc.stratus.com] > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Feb 1994 16:44:39 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Jim G. Shoemaker" Subject: Re: Definition of beekeeping ?! In-Reply-To: <9402142056.AA12470@ozarks.sgcl.lib.mo.us> Dr. B: I contacted you by land line several weeks ago and indicated an interest in obtaining a copy of your "bee population model." This is to suggested in my continuint interest in the "model", if I could be of help in field testing it I would be pleased to be included. I have had bees as a sideline/hobby for about 20 years. I usually have about thirty colonies. While I have had the usual statistics and research course work, that was years ago and I wasn't very good even when it was fresh. It did, however, get me through a dissertation and that was the prime objective. Give me a call if I can help. Jim Shoemaker 5160 S. Western Brookline, MO 65619 (417) 887 0225 jshoemak@ozarks.sgcl.lib.mo.us ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Feb 1994 21:55:11 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "La Reine de la Cite' des Phoques (Liz Day)" Subject: Re: Northern Range of Africanized Bees Yes, I too would like to know what the potential northern range of AHB is, since my friends keep asking me this. Liz Day University of Illinois at Chicago day@eecs.uic.edu ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Feb 1994 21:57:23 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "La Reine de la Cite' des Phoques (Liz Day)" Subject: Re: Varroa mite and I can't help wondering whether perhaps bumblebees will gain some slight advantage if the Varroa wipes out feral honeybees that probably compete with them for food.... Liz Day University of Illinois at Chicago day@eecs.uic.edu ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Feb 1994 20:20:30 -0800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: John Robert Bidleman Subject: Re: Northern Range of Africanized Bees In-Reply-To: <199402141907.AA13962@crl.crl.com> On Mon, 14 Feb 1994, William G Lord wrote: > I am curious to know the opinions of the research community > regarding the potential range of the Africanized bee on the east > coast of the U.S. I have seen a number of maps in the past, but > the range seemed to vary. The discussion of river valley ranging > last week prompts this inquiry. Do we have any definitive answers > based on a South American model, or is such a model irrelevant in > the U.S.? > > Thanks > > -- > William G Lord > E-Mail : wglord@franklin > Internet: wglord@franklin.ces.ncsu.edu > Phone : > Quite irrelevant...and very much like talking about the weather, even though there IS a bit we can do in this case. What with the % of frost days increasing towards the 32'N, an effort to curtail migratory colonies would be helpful. But by and large the projections change with each new development. Check out the 1984 USDA report No. 519: AHB in the U.S. Read scenario I, II, III, & IV. These reports bring to light the folly of predicting ANYTHING about the AHB. I read one report on Andy's BeeBS (BEEKEEPERS) that one man in Texas reported that the Africanized local bee colony he worked with meant 25% more stings and 25% more propolis. Quite a far cry from the killer bee. I think the Varroa and the AHB are indicative of the lack of dissemination of current research (or lack of the research itself). The diverse thoughts on the Varroa mite, for instance, reminds me of the "authoritative" reports of a few years ago in that there is a lot of room for ambiguity....I know a lot of N. Calif. beekeepers who claim they don't treat for Varroa and that they don't suffer for it. While I hear some discussions that blame every weak or dead hive on the Varroa. Let's see what happens with the AHB...I won't be a bit surprised if they are completely hybridized within 20 years and totally managed. Besides, I have a market for propolis something the AHB has a knack in producing. jrb ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Feb 1994 22:58:35 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "La Reine de la Cite' des Phoques (Liz Day)" Subject: northern extent of AHB so the answer is , we don't know how far they will go? ? Liz Day University of Illinois at Chicago day@eecs.uic.edu ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Feb 1994 20:59:03 -0800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: John Robert Bidleman Subject: Re: Varroa mite In-Reply-To: <199402142048.AA27004@crl.crl.com> On Mon, 14 Feb 1994, Jane Beckman wrote: > A thought just crossed my mind. Has anyone done any studies on the effect > of mites on Africanized bees, or is this an untouched area of study, so far? > > I find myself wondering if Africanized bees are more, or less, succeptible to > mite infestation. This could change the balance of feral honeybee populations > across the west/southwest, depending on what the answer is. > > Jane Beckman [jane@swdc.stratus.com] > I don't know where all this line of thought comes from...why should AHB differ from our strain? They have the same basic tube system and after all it is only their BEHAVIOR that is different. I really think this AHB and Varroa mite scare is WAY out of hand. Tracheal mites have been around for a long time. AFB was once thought to be the end of all bees. I feel the Varroa mite and AFB are being demonized way out of proportion. It would take a lot more than these to change the balance of feral honeybees. After all...they're not native here anyway so I'm sure this not the first ordeal the population has faced. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Feb 1994 21:26:23 -0800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: John Robert Bidleman Subject: Re: Northern Range of Africanized Bees In-Reply-To: <199402150402.AA20083@crl.crl.com> On Mon, 14 Feb 1994, La Reine de la Cite' des Phoques (Liz Day) wrote: > Yes, I too would like to know what the potential northern range > of AHB is, since my friends keep asking me this. > Liz Day > > University of Illinois at Chicago > day@eecs.uic.edu > No one knows...the 32'N is one guess but all in all 11 states are "threatened". The AHB may not be the "AHB" by the time it gets where its going anyway. You may ask yourself this: "Where do feral honeybees exist now?" Better question. jrb ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Feb 1994 21:32:07 -0800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: John Robert Bidleman Subject: Re: northern extent of AHB In-Reply-To: <199402150506.AA28237@crl.crl.com> On Mon, 14 Feb 1994, La Reine de la Cite' des Phoques (Liz Day) wrote: > so the answer is , we don't know how far they will go? > ? > Liz Day > > University of Illinois at Chicago > day@eecs.uic.edu > Regardless of all the "data" on AHB from other climates/environs/etc. Ask yourself: "Where do feral honeybees exist now?" I think that's a less scientific point to start from but more probable (with apologies). jrb ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Feb 1994 10:44:23 +0100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Bruzzi Giacomo Subject: Finding queen Hello everybody! Only two questions: o There is a simple method to find the queen in the hive? o The queen position inside the hive depends of the sun movement? Thanks. Ciao. GPaolo Vigone (a biginner beekeeper!) ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Feb 1994 07:38:46 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Adam Finkelstein Subject: Re: Finding queen In-Reply-To: <199402151004.AA31057@Hopper.itc.Virginia.EDU> from "Bruzzi Giacomo" at Feb 15, 94 10:44:23 am Bruno writes: > > o There is a simple method to find the queen in the hive? > > o The queen position inside the hive depends of the sun movement? > > Thanks. > Ciao. > > GPaolo Vigone > (a beginner beekeeper!) > I little trick that sometimes works when trying to find the queen is to look down through the frames of whatever box you have open. The frames with the most bees usually have the queen on them. I have seen queens in every part of the colony at almost anytime, so queen location also depends on luck as well as experience. Adam -- =============================================================================== Adam Finkelstein VDACS Apiary Inspector 116 Reservoir St Harrisonburg VA 22801 703-433-1006 (V) 703-434-5607 (Fax) 703-564-4394 (Pager) adamf@hopper.itc.virginia.edu adamf@vtaix.cc.vt.edu |Bees To Please| ================================================================================ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Feb 1994 05:11:07 -0800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: John Robert Bidleman Subject: Re: Finding queen In-Reply-To: <199402151245.AA09185@crl.crl.com> On Tue, 15 Feb 1994, Adam Finkelstein wrote: > Bruno writes: > > > > o There is a simple method to find the queen in the hive? > > > > o The queen position inside the hive depends of the sun movement? > > > > Thanks. > > Ciao. > > > > GPaolo Vigone > > (a beginner beekeeper!) > > > > I little trick that sometimes works when trying to find the queen is to > look down through the frames of whatever box you have open. The frames with > the most bees usually have the queen on them. > I have seen queens in every part of the colony at almost anytime, so > queen location also depends on luck as well as experience. > Adam > -- > =============================================================================== > Adam Finkelstein VDACS Apiary Inspector 116 Reservoir St Harrisonburg VA 22801 > 703-433-1006 (V) 703-434-5607 (Fax) 703-564-4394 (Pager) > adamf@hopper.itc.virginia.edu adamf@vtaix.cc.vt.edu |Bees To Please| > ================================================================================ > I certainly agree on "luck" being a factor...I know several seasoned beekeepers here in N. Calif. and a few in Ohio and some have no problem at all finding the queen and others have big trouble. Even using the same techniques and manner. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Feb 1994 08:29:11 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Kit Lee Does anyone out there know whether or not Africanized bees also engage in hive robbing? And does interbreeding take place between Africanized and non-Africanized bees? ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Feb 1994 07:58:08 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "La Reine de la Cite' des Phoques (Liz Day)" Subject: Re: northern extent of AHB Feral honeybees exist quite far north, I think, but somehow I thougth the killer bees were less resistant to cold or for some reason wouldn't make it this far (Chicago). Any good info? Liz Day University of Illinois at Chicago day@eecs.uic.edu ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Feb 1994 22:59:00 GMT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: ANDY NACHBAUR Subject: bee problems Jerry J Bromenshenk wrote +-------------------------------+ ###From: Jerry J Bromenshenk ###Subject: Re: Varroa mite ###Date: Mon, 14 Feb 1994 13:49:42 -0700 (MST) ###To: wildbee@beenet.com ### ###Who puts out Wild Cat????? ### ###I agree that AFB, mites, and other things are easy scapegoats for bee ###problems. ### ###One of my undergraduate students did a quick study in which he marked a ###package of bees, sprinkled them along a road, than raced over to a ###beeyard about 1000 feet off the road and sat down for a boring day. Just ###It was a simple study and doesn't mean a lot, but it does point out that ###bees lost from trucks don't just die in the barrow pit. They can and do ###find new homes. ### ###Anyway, speculation is great fun, proving it is something else. ### ###mites (the onesies and the twosies). How's that for scientific nomenclatu +-------------------------------+ Hi Jerry, Mustang Software is the publisher of the Wild Cat BBS program, 805-395-0223 sales. You are welcome to call my bbs at 209-826-8107 and see how it looks and d/l the test drive that should take about 30 minutes to setup. Longer if you are a beekeeper who thinks the telephone is an instrument of the devil. I think the old wives tale of strange bees being challenged or killed by guard bees has left a real void in our understanding of vector transmission of all bee pests and other problems that are placed on the most visual object, like a crop duster. (not to minimize the great loss they have done). Drifting of bees is more then likely measured in miles not feet. The main problems I have with bee pathology, one there are few bee pathologists, and the second every one else seems to be reporting the same symptoms for many different problems. The symptoms of bees leaving a hive full of food is as real to todays beekeepers as it was 100 years ago when reported by the beekeepers then. I do not believe we are any closer to identifying the cure or cause then they were. I am not putting down any one's work or ideas, as I think the mites are interesting study subjects. I also am sure they do some damage, I have not seen it, (massive damage), but I am sure I will in time. In the mean time I don't have to look far to find hives that had mites and are doing well, and hives that are full of food and NO bees. The problem can be isolated to certain yards, not necessarily the same yards each year, but more common in certain areas. This would cause one to believe that its an local environmental problem, except that beekeepers from Texas to Washington from time to time have reported the same problem or symptoms. ttul Andy- z z Z z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z / ########### ################ #################### ####################### ________________ ##### = AHBS Only = ##### | ALMOND ORCHARDS> ############################ /-/ : ___________/ ######## = KEEP OUT = #######(oo) || ##############################-\/ |: ############# ############# :| ______ ############ ############______________||_________________ After a few days of welcome rains California beekeepers are trucking their bees to the almond orchards. The estimated movement is peaking this weekend with as many as 400+- trucks loaded with beehives on the road. An estimated 800,000 hives will be in the almonds by the end of FEB. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Feb 1994 09:53:16 -0600 Reply-To: Marla Spivak Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Marla Spivak Subject: Re: northern extent of AHB In message "La Reine de la Cite' des Phoques (Liz Day)" writes: > Feral honeybees exist quite far north, I think, but somehow I > thougth the killer bees were less resistant to cold or for some > reason wouldn't make it this far (Chicago). Any good info? > Liz Day There is no set, simple answer to this question. If you speak of "pure" African bees (ie, the DNA and morphology is similar to Apis mellifera scutellata from South Africa), they are not as adpated to prolonged cold temperatures as are bees derived from Europe. They can thermoregulate in a cluster, but whether they could make it through a winter in Chicago or Minnesota is anybody's guess (especially in a winter like this one). Jose Villa from the USDA Bee Lab in Baton Rouge has nice data on the overwintering ability of African honey bees. I can lead you to references if you're interested. On their own, meaning without assistance from beekeepers, African bees probably will not swarm and establish feral populations very far north. We assume this because of the distribution of African bees in Argentina. In northern Argentina, African bees thrive quite well. Further south, there is a permanent hybrid zone between African and European bees, and even further south, only European bees are found. This situation probably will occur in the US, only in reverse. If so, "pure" African bees will only be found in the most southern states. However, the above predictions don't take into consideration the beekeeping industry, particularly the queen rearing and package bee industry which is located primarily in the southern US and along the east and west coasts. Thousands of queens and packages are shipped yearly all over the US. How will this affect the distribution of African bees and their hybrids? It can potentially distribute them everywhere. There is a plan in the works to help ensure that all queens and bees that are shipped or transported out of areas where African bees thrive are reared from "certified" European stock. So we will get European queens in the mail, but we may not be able to certify that these queens mated with all European drones. In the long run, we will probably be dealing with mostly European queens hybridized with some African drones, and they will survive everywhere we take them and take care of them. Some will be perfectly manageable and gentle and others will not be so manageable. It will be up to every beekeeper to consistently cull out irascible colonies and propagate gentle colonies. Do African bees get varroa and tracheal mites? Yes. Are they more resistant to these mites? We don't know. In Brazil, African bees don't seem to be as affected by varroa mites as are European bees. Will this trend hold in more temperate regions? We don't know (or I don't know). Marla Spivak Spiva001@maroon.tc.umn.edu University of Minnesota ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Feb 1994 08:54:57 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jerry J Bromenshenk Subject: Re: northern extent of AHB Liz: The answer is as stated. The issue of cold hardiness has been hotly argued between two groups of U.S. researchers. Since there seems to be a cutoff line in S. American, one group holds that AHBs won't make it in the north. The other argues you can find them at high elevation doing fine. Lots of work drawing the line, little work on the possible mechanisms/factors behind the supposed existence of the line. Frankly, in the U.S. the migratory beekeeping practices will spread AHB as quickly as mites. Sometimes by accident, and possibly by intent. Bill Wilson identified something in our part of the world that he called Disappearing Disease and attributed to a genetic defect some years ago. According to the Wilson model, it might be possible that AHB will beat it out the door when it gets cold and freeze off on some fence post, but I am skeptical. I hope AHB is not cold resistant. If that proves to be the case, I know several Montana beekeepers that may go into a new business - "Overwinter your hives in Montana and purge them of AHB". I assume the same would hold for Chicago or any other of the inland Northern Tier States. Cheers Jerry Bromenshenk On Mon, 14 Feb 1994, La Reine de la Cite' des Phoques (Liz Day) wrote: > so the answer is , we don't know how far they will go? > ? > Liz Day > > University of Illinois at Chicago > day@eecs.uic.edu > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Feb 1994 09:23:00 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jerry J Bromenshenk Subject: Re: Finding queen Most of us know the queen can occur anywhere in the hive. I have had lines of queens that like to drop to the floor of the hive or run to the walls, making it very difficult to find her. You can mark the queen with non-toxic paint. However, this doesn't work as well as you migtht expect. Training your eye to find an unmarked queen often works better. I think we tend to focus on looking for the paint rather than clues that pinpoint the queen. The trick seems to be not to look too hard at every bee, you will never find the queen. Rather, scan each frame, looking for a pattern difference. As she moves about with attendants there is a kind of small wheel-shaped pattern that stands out from the mat of bees and a kind of group movement that occurs. In our research, we have to find hundreds of queens. As one observor reported, some beekeepers do this easily, others never get the hang of it. Good eyesight helps. Jerry Jerry Bromenshenk The University of Montana jjbmail@selway.umt.edu ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Feb 1994 08:55:09 -0800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Richard Spear Subject: Re: northern extent of AHB In-Reply-To: <01H8W2BLQ5HU9URKHD@HAMLET.CALTECH.EDU> On Mon, 14 Feb 1994, John Robert Bidleman wrote: [deletions] > Ask yourself: "Where do feral honeybees exist now?" I think that's a > less scientific point to start from but more probable (with apologies). > > jrb ok, to paraphrase . . . where do ahbs exist now? regards, richard rspear@sookit.jpl.nasa.gov all disclaimers apply ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Feb 1994 13:12:19 +0000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Rick Hough Subject: northern extent of AHB On Tue, 15 Feb 1994, rspear@sookit.jpl.nasa.gov wrote: [deletions] >ok, to paraphrase . . . where do ahbs exist now? > >regards, richard > >rspear@sookit.jpl.nasa.gov >all disclaimers apply Richard - I'll assume that you are asking how far into the USA has the AHB travelled (I'm not prepared to answer this one on a global scale!!) I'm not an expert, but last I heard, AHB had been confirmed in something like 20 counties in southern Texas, and a few counties in Arizona (SE of Tuscon, I believe). California has been preparing for the arrival of AHB, but I don't think they have been confirmed there yet. As far as I know, that is the current extent of the AHB, but they are constantly advancing, so the information needs frequent updating...... Rick Hough, a beekeeper from NE of Boston, MA rshough@tasc.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Feb 1994 13:23:04 -0400 Reply-To: Michelle Smith Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Michelle Smith Subject: Re: northern extent of AHB To Rick Hough, Well I am new to this system and I'm certainly not a bee-expert, but... If AHBs you are referring to are Africanized Honey Bees (Killer Bees) then from what I've heard they will not be travelling North for much longer. As far as I know they cannot stand the temperate climate of Canada and therefore will not be a problem here. -Michelle Smith Apiculture Student, University of Guelph Ontario, Canada ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Feb 1994 10:36:36 PST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jane Beckman Subject: Re: Varroa mite >I don't know where all this line of thought comes from...why should AHB >differ from our strain? They have the same basic tube system and after >all it is only their BEHAVIOR that is different. Are you saying that behavior doesn't affect niche space? Feral European honeybees tend to form sedentary colonies that spin off swarms. My understanding of Africanized strains is they tend to pack up the whole colony and swarm en mass, *not leaving behind a parent colony.* It seems to me that this could very well have an effect with regards to mites. And if, as has been discussed here, varroa are weakening honeybee colonies, a tolerance to varroa could give Africanized bees a competitive advantage. On the other hand, a succeptibility to anything from foulbrood to mites *could* restrict their spread in areas where these factors are a problem. I'm looking at this in terms of ecology, not beekeeping. These factors could determine whether the swarm nesting in that hollow tree (or the wall of your garage) is European or Africanized. Introduction of European honeybees changed the ecological balance once. The arrival of the Africanized bees is going to do it again. The question is: how? (Thank you to Jerry Bromenshenk for tips on work on this topic!) --Jane Beckman [jane@swdc.stratus.com] ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Feb 1994 20:46:16 +0200 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Dr MH Villet Subject: Re: African honeybee swarming In-Reply-To: <9402151838.AA09098@hippo.ru.ac.za> from "Jane Beckman" at Feb 15, 94 10:36:36 am Jane Beckman writes: > > My > understanding of Africanized strains is they tend to pack up the whole > colony and swarm en mass, *not leaving behind a parent colony.* It seems > to me that this could very well have an effect with regards to mites. [edited] > --Jane Beckman [jane@swdc.stratus.com] > The African honey bee may abscond due to disturbance or parasite loads, and then the whole colony leaves, stripping any honey stores and leaving no brood behind (usually). They also undergo reproductive swarming, which is pretty much as in other races: a new queen is left behind with old workers. These two (absconding and swarming) usually occur in different seasons, since reproduction occurs during nectar flows, and absconding is related to migration when nectar becomes scarce. I assume that the AHB has retained these traits in the New World. -- Martin H. Villet Department of Zoology and Entomology Telephone: 27 [0]461 318-527 Rhodes University Grahamstown 6140 RSA Internet: zomv@hippo.ru.ac.za ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Feb 1994 20:53:54 +0200 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Dr MH Villet Subject: Re: Hive robbing In-Reply-To: <9402151332.AA12343@hippo.ru.ac.za> from "Kit Lee" at Feb 15, 94 08:29:11 am Kit Lee writes: > > Does anyone out there know whether or not Africanized bees also engage in > hive robbing? And does interbreeding take place between Africanized and > non-Africanized bees? > African honey bees (scutellata and capensis) definitely rob one another's hives, and the same is probably true of AHB in the New World. -- Martin H. Villet Department of Zoology and Entomology Telephone: 27 [0]461 318-527 Rhodes University Grahamstown 6140 RSA Internet: zomv@hippo.ru.ac.za ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Feb 1994 10:53:45 PST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jane Beckman Subject: Re: northern extent of AHB There was one swarm of AHB that was found in the Bakersfield area of California, a few years back. It was destroyed, and is believed to have been a fluke colony that came in with some heavy equipment that was shipped to the area from Central America. There has been careful monitoring of the area in subsquent years, and there is no sign of other colonies--yet. --Jane Beckman [jane@swdc.stratus.com] ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Feb 1994 20:12:13 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "La Reine de la Cite' des Phoques (Liz Day)" Subject: northern spread of AHB Thank you everybody for your answers. Liz Day University of Illinois at Chicago day@eecs.uic.edu ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Feb 1994 20:46:49 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Michael Moroney Subject: Re: Finding queen In-Reply-To: <199402150958.AA23038@world.std.com> > Hello everybody! > > Only two questions: > > o There is a simple method to find the queen in the hive? > > o The queen position inside the hive depends of the sun movement? > It essentially takes experience. Marked queens (a dab of paint on the thorax) help but this isn't a guaranteed method. Marked queens are available from queen breeders here. The best way is to look at what the frames contain. If it's stores, the queen is probably not on that frame. If it's capped brood or older uncapped brood, she may be around. If there's eggs, she's very likely nearby, look carefully at this frame and adjacent ones. I find the way she walks or holds her hind legs seems to help as much or more than marked queens or worker "courts". In fact I've never seen my bees form a court around a queen. And it's not because I've had shy queens that run off, one would continue to lay eggs while I'm holding the frame she's on watching her. -Mike ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Feb 1994 20:28:28 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Michael Moroney Subject: Re: northern extent of AHB In-Reply-To: <199402151359.AA07636@world.std.com> > Feral honeybees exist quite far north, I think, but somehow I > thougth the killer bees were less resistant to cold or for some > reason wouldn't make it this far (Chicago). Any good info? > Liz Day I read somewhere that AHB doesn't form a winter cluster, so they'll freeze to death in cold regions. Any truth to this? -Mike ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Feb 1994 20:08:27 -0800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: John Robert Bidleman Subject: Re: northern extent of AHB In-Reply-To: <199402151405.AA16312@crl.crl.com> On Tue, 15 Feb 1994, La Reine de la Cite' des Phoques (Liz Day) wrote: > Feral honeybees exist quite far north, I think, but somehow I > thougth the killer bees were less resistant to cold or for some > reason wouldn't make it this far (Chicago). Any good info? > Liz Day > > University of Illinois at Chicago > day@eecs.uic.edu > "Killer Bees" (for the sake of reference let's say AHB) are changing as they move north. They weren't always so aggressive either...it is a learned behavior from being "robbed" by humans. They adapted and they will continue to adapt. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Feb 1994 20:18:11 -0800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: John Robert Bidleman Subject: Re: northern extent of AHB In-Reply-To: <199402151603.AA26630@crl.crl.com> You must be joking....purge them of what? Genes? You must be joking? jrb ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Feb 1994 20:20:23 -0800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: John Robert Bidleman Subject: Re: northern extent of AHB In-Reply-To: <199402151706.AA03529@crl.crl.com> On Tue, 15 Feb 1994, Richard Spear wrote: > On Mon, 14 Feb 1994, John Robert Bidleman wrote: > > [deletions] > > > Ask yourself: "Where do feral honeybees exist now?" I think that's a > > less scientific point to start from but more probable (with apologies). > > > > jrb > > ok, to paraphrase . . . where do ahbs exist now? > > regards, richard > > rspear@sookit.jpl.nasa.gov > all disclaimers apply > The question was "where are they going?" We know where they are (AHB's). ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Feb 1994 20:35:39 -0800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: John Robert Bidleman Subject: Re: northern extent of AHB In-Reply-To: <199402151830.AA14221@crl.crl.com> On Tue, 15 Feb 1994, Michelle Smith wrote: > To Rick Hough, > Well I am new to this system and I'm certainly not a bee-expert, but... > If AHBs you are referring to are Africanized Honey Bees (Killer Bees) then > from what I've heard they will not be travelling North for much longer. > As far as I know they cannot stand the temperate climate of Canada and > therefore will not be a problem here. > -Michelle Smith > Apiculture Student, University of Guelph > Ontario, Canada > Michelle- There is a lot land between Texas and Canada. I think that's the concern everyone's voicing now. Somehow I think you're right Canada has nothing to worry about...yet. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Feb 1994 21:20:39 -0800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: John Robert Bidleman Subject: Re: Finding queen In-Reply-To: <199402160355.AA24137@crl.crl.com> Experience can have very little to do with it. As a 13 year old novice I could find a queen very easily while my grandfathers friends (20 years in the business) would have a hard time. We used essentially the same method. I have seen many "courts" in my day but then I don't smoke before opening the hive either. jrb ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Feb 1994 09:47:02 AST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Blair Sampson Subject: Re: northern extent of AHB Howdy Ho! Can anyone out there clearify what is meant by an "africanized honey bee". To my understanding the subspecies Apis mellifera scutellata, A.m. capensis and/or A.m. adansonii were imported to south america from africa, and that the escaped drones of african honey bees (I use the term "african" to refer to those subspecies that originated in africa) freely mated with neighboring European queens. If this scenario is true, could the European subspecies (A.m. mellifera, A.m. ligustica, etc.) inherit the "africanized" condition? Since aggressiveness is a highly adaptive trait at least for bees under duress, the proliferation of "africanized" genes poses a real danger to domestic honey bee populations in the northern U.S. and Canada, especially at higher latitudes, where honey bees form winter clusters and accumulate adequate fat reserves in their bodies to overwinter. To put it more succinctly, "African bee"= physical migration; "Africanized bee" = genetic migration. The latter being of greater concern to northern apiculturalists. Forgive me all, if I use the word "africanized" to loosely or inappropriately! So if anybody out there can enlighten this inexperienced forager on this heated topic, your input would be greatly appreciated.... Blair "BEES OR BUST" +++++ +++ + +++ ++ .***....++........ ++ .**.********..++++++++++++.. ** *********** ****************. .*. ********** ***.**************** .**.*..****** .**...*************** ** .* **. *** ********** *. *. *. **** ****** * * ** *** ** . . * **.. ____________________________________ BLAIR SAMPSON Dept. of Biology Acadia University Wolfville, N.S. BOP 1XO, Canada 881305s@axe.acadiau.ca ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Feb 1994 17:51:55 +0200 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Dr MH Villet Subject: Re: northern extent of AHB In-Reply-To: <9402161348.AA29031@hippo.ru.ac.za> from "Blair Sampson" at Feb 16, 94 09:47:02 am Blair Sampson writes: > > Can anyone out there clearify what is meant by an "africanized > honey bee". {edited} > Since aggressiveness is a highly adaptive trait at least for bees > under duress, the proliferation of "africanized" genes poses a real > danger to domestic honey bee populations. {edited} > To put it more succinctly, "African bee"= physical > migration; "Africanized bee" = genetic migration. The latter being of > greater concern to northern apiculturalists. Given that genomes undergo recombination, and the agressiveness is affected by genetic factors, and that agressiveness may be adaptive in feral colonies, What are the chances that AHB morphology and mitotypes etc may stop advancing in the southern U.S., but that the genes for colony defensiveness will carry on north? Would there be any point in identifying AHB genomes when they recombine every generation? Maybe just an agressiveness assay (or an assay of the traits of concern) would do the trick? Can a population geneticist throw some light on this topic e.g. from Argentinian data? Martin H. Villet Department of Zoology and Entomology Telephone: 27 [0]461 318-527 Rhodes University Grahamstown 6140 RSA Internet: zomv@hippo.ru.ac.za ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Feb 1994 08:51:16 PST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Adrian Wenner Subject: Re: Finding queen A great deal of input has now been provided on the question of locating a queen in a colony, but much of that input does not seem to me to relate directly to the intent of the original question. My impression was that the original question refered to procedure (i.e., exactly what steps should one (particularly a newcomer to beekeeping) take in sequence to best insure finding a queen efficiently?). One season (many years ago) I singlehandedly raised thousands of queens. That work, of course, required locating each queen quickly and without undue disturbance to the colony. The steps taken were usually as follows: 1) Lift hive lid slightly and apply a very small amount of smoke. 2) Lower cover gently for 10-20 seconds and then remove carefully. 3) Remove a frame on either side of the hive body, providing room so that one of the middle frames can be removed without undue disturbance of bees. 4) Fairly rapidly scan each side of the removed comb -- often the queen stands out. 5) If the queen is not immediately visible, look for eggs. If there are no eggs, there is a good chance she is not on that comb. 6) Repeat the process sequentially on middle combs, gradually working to either side of the hive body. If eggs are seen, inspect the comb more closely. 7) If the queen is not found within a few minutes of applying this procedure (after 4-5 central combs have been viewed), carefully and rather quickly re-assemble the hive components and try again in a day or two. Some things just cannot be forced. And most of all, good luck! Adrian *************************************************************** * Adrian Wenner E-Mail wenner@lifesci.lscf.ucsb.edu * * Department of Biology Office Phone (805) 893-2838 * * University of California Lab Phone (805) 893-2838 * * Santa Barbara, CA 93106 FAX (805) 893-4724 * *************************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Feb 1994 08:58:30 PST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jane Beckman Subject: Re: Finding queen Sometimes tracing the pattern of eggs on the brood comb helps. Good queens tend to lay in somewhat spiral patterns. As has been mentioned by someone else, I've seen a queen continue to lay while you're examining the frame. I think a lot depends on temperament, and possibly how often you open the hive... --Jane ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Feb 1994 10:05:30 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jerry J Bromenshenk Subject: Re: northern extent of AHB Well, mostly joking. Somehow, I think it is naive and too much to hope for that AHB won't be able to survive our MT winters. Nothing seems to be that simple. So far AHB has been confirmed in AZ, TX, and NM. As soon as it hits CA, it will arrive via truck the following spring. At this time, about 150,000 colonies go in and out of MT each year, mostly moving between CA and MT with stops along the way. Ditto for ND, MN, etc. Given our restrictive site registration laws and criminal penalities, it is hard for a newcomer to get access to MT without the cooperation of a beekeeper with registered sites in the state. CA beekeepers are understandably a bit put off by this -- MT beekeepers move into CA, but it is not as easy to go the other way. In addition, some of our beekeepers do not migrate. Now as to the hotly debated issue about whether or not AHB can survive our winters. We will know in the not so distant future, because they will show up here in the semi-truck loads. The only question is when - next year, the year after, etc.? Beekeepers have a tough time making ends meet. So, wouldn't it be nice if AHB really can't survive cold winters. Those of us in the northern states could just invite the warm climate folks to drop their colonies in some remote corner for a while during the fall/winter. If AHB really can't take the cold, by default the only living colonies taken back to the warm climes would be European. Seems to me this would be a purge. jjb jjbmail@selway.umt.edu On Tue, 15 Feb 1994, John Robert Bidleman wrote: > You must be joking....purge them of what? Genes? You must be joking? > > > jrb > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Feb 1994 17:44:35 +0000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Malcolm Roe Subject: Re: Finding queen In-Reply-To: <9402161658.AA27007@echidna.swdc.stratus.com> from "Jane Beckman" at Feb 16, 94 08:58:30 am Another thing you may be able to do to make finding the queen easier is to choose the time carefully. Don't choose to look on a heavily overcast day or in the evening, when most of the foragers are at home, particularly in high summer when the population is near maximum! I always mark my queens so that when I do need to find one later it is easy. If any overwinter unmarked I try to mark them as soon as the weather is warm enough to open up the hives again. -- Malcolm Roe Phone : +44 442 230000 ext 4104 Crosfield Electronics Ltd Fax : +44 442 232301 Hemel Hempstead, Herts. HP2 7RH, UK E-mail : roe@crosfield.co.uk ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Feb 1994 14:08:30 PST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jane Beckman Subject: Re: northern extent of AHB I recall reading an article sometime last year, which was in a second-hand source (Wall Street Journal?), discussing how genetic drift studies indicated that % of African genes seemed to be determined by the climate. Studies in Central America showed almost pure strains of African honeybee genetics, but the more temperate areas showed more drift to European genes. It was cited as being something of a surprise to the researchers, who expected more dilution in areas with large numbers of European colonies, which were expected to dilute the gene base with European traits. The next step was going to be trying to determine why the drift sorted out this way---if there was an unknown selective pressure, if drones in the tropics were somehow more drawn to queens with more African traits for some reason, or if some as-yet-unknown mechanism was causing genetic stability of African traits. I don't know what primary source this was pulled from, but the secondary citation was very rational, scientific, and level headed. (If it was, indeed, as I recall, in the WSJ, I would expect such from them.) Has anyone else seen anything from this study? (With any secondary rework, I always wonder if the writer is confusing genomes and phenomes, etc.) Seeing as selective pressures work toward a genetic model that works best in a specified niche, I don't see this as any real surprise. We may be watching the beginnings of a diversification that will give as many hybrid strains as Galapagos finches... --Jane Beckman [jane@swdc.stratus.com] ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Feb 1994 09:40:33 +1100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Robert Rice Subject: Finding Queens Hi I watched the on going discussion on how to find queens with interest. However in the many replies nobody seems to have nominated the hive size/type to which their technique applies. For instance, ther are different techniques for each hive type ie. WSP, ideal, langstroth, mating colonies (nucs). While the general principle of scaning is common to all types of equipment, actually determining the approximate location of the brood area and hence the queen is different in each case. Additionally, many people choose not to use queen excluders so the brood area may cover many levels of a strong colony depending on its type. The other most critical point in finding the queen is doing it in a manner that is swift with out risk to the queen. A general method for langstroth colonies(plus queen excluder) is to smoke both the entrance and under the lid with a minimal amount of smoke (just enough to settle the bees). To much smoke distresses the bees and tends to make them run across the combs. Then quickly remove any supers and then the queen excluder. In the southern hemisphere the brood area tends to be on the north-eastern side of the colony so remove the outside comb from this side and the second comb in from the other side. If these contain brood scan for the queen, otherwise don't bother. Then from the north-eastern side remove successive combs firstly checking for eggs and then scanning the comb. After scanning the comb, rest the comb on its end, leaning the comb against the hive (if its not to cold). By removing the comb from the opposite side away from the brood you generally stop the queen from going onto the wall of the hive. A fine point of technique is not to use jerky movements, ie. when you get stung while handling combs as the queen is often easily dislodged and falls from the comb. For all those out there that were gloves when working over bee hives, try to do with out these as they tend to make you less competent when handling frames. More bees tend to get squashed under your fingers and bees when stinging gloves leave venom behind which tends to attract more bees to your hands. For nucleus colonies, smoke as above and the remove the outside comb on the opposite side to the brood and then work across from the brood side of the colony. All those with experience should be able to tell where the brood is by looking down between the frames from above before the first frame is removed. For mini-nucs (mating colonies), before you remove any combs listen to the sound the bees make when you remove the lid and look at the posture of th bees on top of the frames. A higher pitched sound then normal and abdomens in the air and you don't usually have a queen. What about virgins ? Replenish the brood in the nuc with a frame of brood covered in bees and let these bees kill the virgin, don't waste your time. On average, twenty percent of the time mating nucs wont have a queen so don't waste time looking for a queen or eggs using the normal systematic approach. Pull a frame from the centre of the cluster and check for eggs, no eggs no queen. If the nuc is quiet, remove frames from the side away from the brood area and scan. A good queen catcher from mating nucs should average 40 queens caught per hour. The point is, use a systematic approach suitable for the type of equipment. Use as little smoke as possible and don't be jerky in your movements. For all those with minimal bee experience, don't get frustrated you can always put the hive back together and look later. I find that the harder you try and the more frustrated you get the harder the job and the more stings you get. Bees, like dogs, seem to be able to sense your mood and if your scared then you usually get more stings. Robert Rice CSIRO Division of Entomology Canberra. E-mail robertr@ento.csiro.au ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Feb 1994 16:24:26 PST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jane Beckman Subject: gloves >For all those out there that were gloves when working >over bee hives, try to do with out these as they tend to make you >less competent when handling frames. Gloves are the only protective clothing I generally tend to wear---but... Most folks wear heavy and unwieldy gloves. I wear the thin plastic gloves that I wear for caving. They give you a good "feel" for the frames and bees, and are semi-resistant to stings. Get them at your rockclimbing supplier. (It's mostly a psychological crutch, anyway, not being able to feel bees scurrying over your fingertips. I've worked barehanded, and I really prefer gloves to deaden autonomous reactions.) As for other protective clothing---I started out fully suited, 20 years ago, and found I shed more and more gear over time. I get stung less without "protective" clothing than with it. --Jane B. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Feb 1994 21:32:49 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Michael Moroney Subject: Re: northern extent of AHB In-Reply-To: <199402160451.AA09768@world.std.com> > To Rick Hough, > Well I am new to this system and I'm certainly not a bee-expert, but... > If AHBs you are referring to are Africanized Honey Bees (Killer Bees) then > from what I've heard they will not be travelling North for much longer. > As far as I know they cannot stand the temperate climate of Canada and > therefore will not be a problem here. Not from feral colonies, but I foresee another problem. Do you get package bees or queens from the States? If so, some (especially from less reputable breeders) are bound to show up with queens mated with AHB once in a while... -Mike ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Feb 1994 21:38:30 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Michael Moroney Subject: Re: gloves In-Reply-To: <199402170025.AA16792@world.std.com> > >For all those out there that were gloves when working > >over bee hives, try to do with out these as they tend to make you > >less competent when handling frames. > > Gloves are the only protective clothing I generally tend to wear---but... > Most folks wear heavy and unwieldy gloves. I wear the thin plastic gloves > that I wear for caving. I'll have to check those out sometime. Right now I don't wear gloves since I shmoosh more bees with them, and the occasional bee crawling on my hand doesn't really bother me. (One buzzing around my head is another story, to the point I'll have a tough time resisting swatting it away, even though I KNOW that's wrong. But a veil is the crutch I need, wearing one and an angry bee doesn't bother me in the least) Speaking of smooshing bees, in the peak of summer when the hives are full, there are always bees on the top edge of the hive body when you go to replace the inner cover or a super. What's the best trick to keep from killing so many? Brushing them away doesn't work, since they crawl back out on brushed edges when brushing another? I feel guilty killing so many bees whenever putting a hive back together. -Mike ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Feb 1994 16:57:12 +1100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Robert Rice Subject: Re: squashed bees In-Reply-To: <9402170431.AA05131@spider.ento.csiro.au> from "Michael Moroney" at Feb 16, 94 09:38:30 pm Edited Speaking of smooshing bees, in the peak of summer when the hives are > full, there are always bees on the top edge of the hive body when you go > to replace the inner cover or a super. What's the best trick to keep > from killing so many? Brushing them away doesn't work, since they crawl > back out on brushed edges when brushing another? I feel guilty killing so > many bees whenever putting a hive back together. > > -Mike Before you close the hive give it a good dose of smoke to get the bees below the top edge of the hive body and off the top of the frames. Rob. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Feb 1994 10:39:40 GMT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Carl_Ricketts@CHURCHILL.CO.UK Subject: Re[2]: squashed bees I also put the top/quilt back by sliding it across from one corner on the diagonal and then slipping it around square. This seems to give the Bees more of a chance to escape. Carl ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Re: squashed bees Author: Discussion of Bee Biology at Internet Date: 17/02/94 06:59 Edited Speaking of smooshing bees, in the peak of summer when the hives are > full, there are always bees on the top edge of the hive body when you go > to replace the inner cover or a super. What's the best trick to keep > from killing so many? Brushing them away doesn't work, since they crawl > back out on brushed edges when brushing another? I feel guilty killing so > many bees whenever putting a hive back together. > > -Mike Before you close the hive give it a good dose of smoke to get the bees below the top edge of the hive body and off the top of the frames. Rob. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Feb 1994 10:04:14 +0000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Malcolm Roe Subject: Re: squashed bees In-Reply-To: <9402170557.AA06728@spider.ento.csiro.au> from "Robert Rice" at Feb 17, 94 04:57:12 pm > Speaking of smooshing bees, in the peak of summer when the hives are > > full, there are always bees on the top edge of the hive body when you go > > to replace the inner cover or a super. What's the best trick to keep > > from killing so many? What I do is hold the cover just above the body and move it round and round in small horizontal circles whilst slowly lowering it. You can do the same for supers but it's rather hard work if they are full! -- Malcolm Roe Phone : +44 442 230000 ext 4104 Crosfield Electronics Ltd Fax : +44 442 232301 Hemel Hempstead, Herts. HP2 7RH, UK E-mail : roe@crosfield.co.uk ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Feb 1994 12:37:37 +0200 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Andreas Kasenides Subject: Re: gloves In-Reply-To: (Your message of Wed, 16 Feb 94 16:24:26 PST.) <9402170025.AA28882@jupiter.cca.ucy.cy> >really prefer gloves to deaden autonomous reactions.) As for other >protective clothing---I started out fully suited, 20 years ago, and found >I shed more and more gear over time. I get stung less without "protective" >clothing than with it. > >--Jane B. >Speaking of smooshing bees, in the peak of summer when the hives are >full, there are always bees on the top edge of the hive body when you go >to replace the inner cover or a super. What's the best trick to keep >from killing so many? >Well, I may be inexperienced around bees but.... >-Mike I am not sure what kind of bees you have there but in my neck of the woods if you get close to hives in the heat of the summer ... well you are asking for trouble. Of course you can get close if you get used to the idea and *behave* properly. But still there is a chance that you will be attacked. Now operating inside the hive is another story though. I would never dream of doing that unless I am fully clothed. And that is how it has worked out for others around here. Removing supers,frames and honey that is the job of warriors in full battle gear. And if you accidentally kill a couple, then you are really asking for en masse (sp?) attack. For some reason the buzzing noise made by bees being killed or the smell of those squashed trigger the red alarm. NOTE: I have been around bees for as long as I can remember and these are my experiences NOT my FEARS!! I get stung many times in a year but I am not asking for trouble. Any suggestions in improving this condition will be appreciated. Andreas ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Feb 1994 08:58:37 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jerry J Bromenshenk Subject: Re: gloves With experience, many of us work without gloves, and some with less protective clothing. I often work in short sleeves without a veil. However, I require my students and employees to 1) always have a lit smoker or water spray bottle close at hand, and 2) wear a veil. 20 yrs of bee stings have left me with near total immunity, no or minimal swelling, and unless the sting directly hits a nerve, little or no pain, and no itching. Mosquito bites bother me more. But, none of the students or other employees have that physiological advantage and I MAKE SURE THAT THEY UNDERSTAND THIS IMPORTANT FACT. The veil is required to protect the eyes. At best, most people will not be able to open an eye that has received a nearby sting. If the sting is to the eye itself or if the swelling is severe, vision may be temporarily or permanently affected. The smoker or water spray are tools to calm down the bees - and if used properly can be very affective. Many beekeepers who claim to have mean bees just don't work them correctly, as I have proven many times. Even in the best of situations, an accident can happen - a hive falls over or a population may explode out of a box (even if smoked). I have seen this happen on a few occassions with bees that have just come off trucks or that have been exposed to high concentrations of pesticides. The bees just seem to be mad at everything. With the arrival of AHB, this may become more common. I know of several instances in which a person became over-confident and started working bees without the proper clothing and/or a smoker. Suddenly, a colony will go out of control and the person receives a dozen or more stings. Usually, they swell badly and off get sick. Several have later become hypersensitive to bee stings. I have no proof that multiple stings (sort of an overdose) leads to hypersensitivity, but I suspect if you have a tendancy towards this condition, a bad incident like this may tip the balance. We all reacte differently to stings. Some become hypersensitive just handling beekeeper clothing, others after many years, some after just a couple of stings. The lucky ones become immune - something that works for me with bee stings but not other allergies. I also realize that there is a chance that my own physiological response to bee stings may change, but I surely hope not. It is more comfortable working bees without the suits, gloves, etc. But I ALWAYS KEEP A VEIL CLOSE BY. Therefore, unless you know that you are unlikely to reacte to bee stings and unless you are relatively experienced working with bees, I DO NOT RECOMMEND WORKING WITHOUT PROTECTIVE CLOTHING and do not think anyone should encourage people to do so. Keep the veil and the white suit. If you leave the gloves off - velcro, tape, or wear arm gaiters to close off your sleeves. I agree that one squashes more bees with gloves on and prefer to work without them, but be sure to reduce the area of skin exposed to bees. You can always stick your hands in your pockets if things get out of hand. Oh yes, if you work without gloves, be sure to clean your hands. Like hive tools and dirty gloves, you can spread bacteria and other pathogens from your hands. Most of us take steps to clean tools and gloves between apiaries. Remember, if you don't wear gloves your hands can contaminate everything you touch. I carry a spray bottle full of isopropyl alcohol to clean my hands, and if stung, to remove the alarm pheromone marking the spot for other bees. Let the alcohol evaporate before sticking your hands back in the hive. Cheers Jerry Bromenshenk jjbmail@selway.umt.edu ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Feb 1994 08:01:03 PST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Adrian Wenner Subject: Re: Finding queen, again >Another thing you may be able to do to make finding the queen easier is >to choose the time carefully. Don't choose to look on a heavily >overcast day or in the evening, when most of the foragers are at home, >particularly in high summer when the population is near maximum! Reply from Adrian Yes, of course. I forgot to mention that matter of timing, since it is quite automatic for me to work with a colony only under good weather conditions, preferably when the field force is absent from the hive -- less squashing bees that way, too. Adrian *************************************************************** * Adrian Wenner E-Mail wenner@lifesci.lscf.ucsb.edu * * Department of Biology Office Phone (805) 893-2838 * * University of California Lab Phone (805) 893-2838 * * Santa Barbara, CA 93106 FAX (805) 893-4724 * *************************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Feb 1994 08:18:37 PST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Adrian Wenner Subject: Re: gloves >>For all those out there that were gloves when working >>over bee hives, try to do with out these as they tend to make you >>less competent when handling frames. > I essentially never work with gloves, but then I am not in the business of producing honey, shaking packages, or other heavy work. However, when trying to find queens and other work done when a minimum disturbance of the colony is essential, Tom Glenn of Fallbrook CA showed me an interesting trick that I now do sometimes. While he normally works barehanded or uses heavy gloves when appropriate, he slipped on a pair of surgical gloves when searching for a queen. It works great! One has all the capability provided by bare hands but still has the flexibility for manipulating frames and even picking up bees. After closing up the colony, one can invert and discard the glove after removing it (about 10 cents a glove). The bees usually do not get a good enough grasp of the latex to force their stinger through the glove. Squashing a bee between the fingers is another matter, of course. (Maybe beekeepers who use surgical gloves can claim they are in the same league as surgeons!) Adrian *************************************************************** * Adrian Wenner E-Mail wenner@lifesci.lscf.ucsb.edu * * Department of Biology Office Phone (805) 893-2838 * * University of California Lab Phone (805) 893-2838 * * Santa Barbara, CA 93106 FAX (805) 893-4724 * *************************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Feb 1994 11:19:32 -500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Chris Conroy Subject: Re: gloves This has been a great discussion. My wife and I are looking forward to getting a couple of hives this spring, and this is the kind of information that you can't get from a book. Thanks! Chris Conroy ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Feb 1994 08:50:23 PST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Adrian Wenner Subject: Re: gloves >With experience, many of us work without gloves, and some with less >protective clothing. I often work in short sleeves without a veil. > >However, I require my students and employees to 1) always have a lit >smoker or water spray bottle close at hand, and 2) wear a veil. > >Jerry Bromenshenk >jjbmail@selway.umt.edu Very good advice, Jerry. I have printed out a copy for my students. *************************************************************** * Adrian Wenner E-Mail wenner@lifesci.lscf.ucsb.edu * * Department of Biology Office Phone (805) 893-2838 * * University of California Lab Phone (805) 893-2838 * * Santa Barbara, CA 93106 FAX (805) 893-4724 * *************************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Feb 1994 11:14:00 CDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: John Klueh Subject: Re: gloves >I am not sure what kind of bees you have there but in my neck of the >woods if you get close to hives in the heat of the summer ... well you are >asking for trouble. Of course you can get close if you get used to the idea >and *behave* properly. But still there is a chance that you will be attacked. >Now operating inside the hive is another story though. I would never >dream of doing that unless I am fully clothed. And that is how it has worked >out for others around here. > >Removing supers,frames and honey that is the job of warriors in full >battle gear. And if you accidentally kill a couple, then you are really asking f >or >en masse (sp?) attack. For some reason the buzzing noise made by bees >being killed or the smell of those squashed trigger the red alarm. > >NOTE: I have been around bees for as long as I can remember and these >are my experiences NOT my FEARS!! I get stung many times in a year but I >am not asking for trouble. > >Any suggestions in improving this condition will be appreciated. > >Andreas Gee, my experiences are quite different! A clear, hot, calm sunny day in the middle of summer, particularly if there is a decent honeyflow occuring - those are the conditions I found ideal to take honey off and do other hive manipulations. Most of the foragers are too busy to be concerned about intrusions. Very often after beginning cautiously with veil and gloves, I would discard both and work just in long pants and a t-shirt. That is not to say I was never stung - but I rarely felt I needed to be a 'warrior in full battle gear'. Perhaps you should consider requeening with gentler stock. jklueh@macc.wisc.edu John ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Feb 1994 12:40:08 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Adam Finkelstein Subject: Re: gloves (long) In-Reply-To: <199402171625.AA33653@Hopper.itc.Virginia.EDU> from "Adrian Wenner" at Feb 17, 94 08:18:37 am Regarding Adrian's anecdote: I often look at one beekeeper's bees until done. This is usually wonderful work and takes me through beautiful countryside. Each bee yard has a different flavor and feel and the bees seem to behave well on good sunny days with ample pollen and nectar flowing in. The beekeepers I work with average 600 colonies and pollinate early before moving the bees to summer yards. After pollination I look at 600 - 800 colonies before the main honey flow starts (Tulip Poplar) and am usually rushed to finish. Understandably the beekeepers would rather me not going through their bees during a honeyflow. So, knocking out 4 or 5 yards a day is what I try to aim for: 80 to 100 colonies a day absolutely optimum, 50 average. I do not wear gloves and if warm enough, short sleeves. I always wear a veil, and recommend you do too, or have one handy as someone recently suggested. I try to have extra equipment in my truck for observers or just in case. Well, I was trying to finish up one beekeepers and start another, the weather had been lousy and here finally was a good few days, great, I'd get this guy done. I was in a beautiful yard with an expansive view of the blue ridge mountains, the air was shimmering, the pasture so green it hurt to look at it for too long, and I was looking at bees, something I seem to like to do. Then, I ran into one of those mean hives. Some yards have mean hives some do not.Some are filled with them. The bees are mean. They sting you. They sting you often. Not much to do, get stung and be as careful and quick as possible. So I ran into the meanest hive of the year in this beautiful yard. 4, 5, 6 stings with the cover and inner cover off, smoke? Yup. Well I had better get my gloves. Go to truck, get out gloves right? No, you got it. No gloves. No extra gloves. I remembered my daughter playing with them. I had forgotten to put them back in the truck. Oh well, then I remembered my surgical gloves I used to apply Apistan strips with when surveying for Varroa. This will work fine I hoped. It didn't. I felt like a jumping bean, finishing up that hive. The owner always likes to have notes left on the top if I find any problems, in crayon. You can imagine what I left for him... And the gloves? They looked like porcupine skin. Why? Who knows, The bees do. I always remember to keep those gloves around. I think that beekeeper re-queened his hive too after my note :) Adam -- =============================================================================== Adam Finkelstein VDACS Apiary Inspector 116 Reservoir St Harrisonburg VA 22801 703-433-1006 (V) 703-434-5607 (Fax) 703-564-4394 (Pager) adamf@hopper.itc.virginia.edu adamf@vtaix.cc.vt.edu |Bees To Please| ================================================================================ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Feb 1994 10:10:49 PST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jane Beckman Subject: Re: gloves Some hives DO require protective clothing---their bees are just nasty customers. I remember one that you could *hear* the difference the minute you took the cover off. Good old #4 at the Cal Poly lower bee yard. We kinda kept hoping to find something wrong, so we could justify getting rid of these guys... Requeened to a more mellow strain, the next year. Everyone got stung by the bees in #4... However, approaching hives from the rear, and moving s-l-o-w-l-y and not smooshing bees (hard!), you can do it. And you have to be completely mellow. When I was a kid, I was known as "the girl who picks up bees" because I was always carrying around some honeybee or bumblebee, so this isn't hard for me. Bees can smell your biochemistry if you are afraid of them, and those folks should always suit up. I *do* cover my hair with a ski hood, mostly because bees that get caught in your hair get distressed, and buzz rather alarmingly, and are beastly hard to get loose from your hair... I've found you should also *never* work a hive if you're hot and sweaty. Sweat makes them agressive. If it's midsummer, shower just before going out, and then rub yourself with honey water on your sweat-points and dry off all moisture. --Jane Beckman [jane@swdc.stratus.com] ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Feb 1994 13:45:12 +0000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Rick Hough Subject: gloves I've enjoyed the glove discussion! One thing to keep in mind while we converse on the BEE-L is that many of the participants are not from the USA. This contributes to the diversity of experiences reported on the list. I am not at all surprised to hear Andreas report how nasty bees have always been, while others don't even wear protective gear. I noticed that Andreas's e-mail address ended in .CY - I'm not up on my internet addressing, but I KNOW that is not in the US!! Maybe Andreas has grown up dealing with African Honey Bees, and considers their temperament to be normal, whereas others are used to a "kinder, gentler" type of bee. So, I guess this is a long-winded way to remind folks that it is helpful to include something in your e-mail that indicates where you are from. Thanks! Rick Hough, a beekeeper from NE of Boston, MA, USA. rshough@tasc.com PS - I have not gotten any contributions for a BEE-L Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) list. I've been reviewing the archives to see what has actually been being discussed (most frequent item: how do I subscribe/unsubscribe from the list!!!). So, if there is something that you feel striongly should be on the FAQ list, e-mail your suggestion to me. Please include both the question AND THE ANSWER, so I can cut & paste your suggestions into the master FAQ. My initial post of the FAQ probably will not occur until early March, due to time constraints. ---------------- John Klueh recently wrote: >>I am not sure what kind of bees you have there but in my neck of the >>woods if you get close to hives in the heat of the summer ... well you are >>asking for trouble. Of course you can get close if you get used to the idea >>and *behave* properly. But still there is a chance that you will be attacked. >>Now operating inside the hive is another story though. I would never >>dream of doing that unless I am fully clothed. And that is how it has worked >>out for others around here. >> >>Removing supers,frames and honey that is the job of warriors in full >>battle gear. And if you accidentally kill a couple, then you are really asking >>for >>en masse (sp?) attack. For some reason the buzzing noise made by bees >>being killed or the smell of those squashed trigger the red alarm. >> >>NOTE: I have been around bees for as long as I can remember and these >>are my experiences NOT my FEARS!! I get stung many times in a year but I >>am not asking for trouble. >> >>Any suggestions in improving this condition will be appreciated. >> >>Andreas > >Gee, my experiences are quite different! A clear, hot, calm sunny day in the >middle of summer, particularly if there is a decent honeyflow occuring - those >are the conditions I found ideal to take honey off and do other hive >manipulations. Most of the foragers are too busy to be concerned about >intrusions. Very often after beginning cautiously with veil and gloves, I would >discard both and work just in long pants and a t-shirt. That is not to say I was >never stung - but I rarely felt I needed to be a 'warrior in full battle gear' . > >Perhaps you should consider requeening with gentler stock. > > jklueh@macc.wisc.edu John ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Feb 1994 11:59:39 -0800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Richard Spear Subject: Re: gloves In-Reply-To: <01H8ZJS8EEC29US76S@HAMLET.CALTECH.EDU> >The smoker or water spray are tools to calm down the bees - and if used >properly can be very affective. Many beekeepers who claim to have mean >bees just don't work them correctly, as I have proven many times. jerry - could you explain using a spray water bottle? i live and work a hive in a california canyon, and smoking is always a problem because of fire danger. regards, richard rspear@sookit.jpl.nasa.gov all disclaimers apply ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Feb 1994 15:28:54 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "James E. Hoyt" Subject: Spray Bottle Some of us around here use a spray bottle with sugar disolved in it. Seems the bees like it better in hot weather, they promptly start grooming themselves and its cooling as well. Jim Hoyt Ann Arbor, Michigan - USA ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Feb 1994 15:37:58 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Steve Peck Subject: Re: Spray Bottle quick I see your on, I'm about to take drasitic measures if that letter did not reach you respond imediately ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Feb 1994 17:17:03 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "La Reine de la Cite' des Phoques (Liz Day)" Subject: stings It has been interesting listening to this discussion. I can see now that there is a lot of variation in whether people get stung and whether they care. I had always wondered about this.... Liz Day University of Illinois at Chicago day@eecs.uic.edu ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 Feb 1994 11:11:19 +1100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Robert Rice Subject: Bee Beards Hi everyone, Has anyone out there done a bee beard and if so what technique did they use and how successful was it? Oh yes, what was their motivation for doing it ? Robert Rice CSIRO Division of Entomology Canberra, Australia. E-mail robertr@Cento.csiro.au ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Feb 1994 18:02:01 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jerry J Bromenshenk Subject: Re: gloves On Thu, 17 Feb 1994, Richard Spear wrote: > > jerry - > > could you explain using a spray water bottle? i live and work a hive in a > california canyon, and smoking is always a problem because of fire > danger. > > regards, richard Richard, as Jim Hoyt commented this works best on warm days, and I wouldn't use it on cool, cold, or damp days - if for no other reason than to not stress the bees. Although many people use a little sugar, I am not convinced that it is needed. Too much and the bees get stuck together. We found that sugar spray can kill bees if they get too gunky. My impression is that plain water works just as well, especially when working nucleus colonies or mini-hives. I gently lift the lid and spritz anyone sticking their head out. If they start to buzz around, hit them again. The secret is to catch them on the combs -- once they are in the air, not much can be done. My guess is that a wet bee (don't soak them, just mist them) is a little less able to fly and probably distracted by the "freak" rain inside the hive. Anyway, they often drop down the combs just as they do when exposed to a little smoke. At times I also use air to work bees. Beekeepers often blow bees out of supers, but gentler puffs of air can be use to move bees around. If I find a pile of bees under which I suspect the queen is hiding (not uncommon on a cool or overcast day in mid-summer when the bees are all home in the box and about five layers deep on the frames), I simply blow through my lips and the pile will slowly open up. Don't blow too hard, that seems like an open invitation to make a rapid dash towards you and may result in a nasty sting on the lip or nose. As per clothing. Most of you know not to wear suede gloves. Apparently bees live by the rule "If it is fuzzy or dark, sting it". A handy tip - need an extra coverall or two for visitors? Go get a few DISPOSABLE TYVEC COVERALLS from your local asbestos remover. They work great and are cheap and light. Some of my students prefer them over conventional coveralls. Don't expect to be able to do heavy work in them such as pullling honey supers - they will tear too easily. But for obervation, visits, inspections, they work fine. Another advantage - they are completely sealed, no open vents, etc. To keep from tearing out the feet on gravel or rough terrain (many of our yards have cactus), make a Duct Tape sole. In general, buy one or two sizes larger than you usually wear. I think these things must be made in Asia, the crotch is always too short and rips out when you bend over unless you get a large size. Firms that handle hazardous wastes also have these suits. I imagine any of you associated with a University will find that your Physical Plant gets these suits, since asbestos insulation is common in old heating plants, tunnels, around pipes, etc. Happy Bee Busting Jerry jjbmail@selway.umt.edu Univ. of MT, USA ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Feb 1994 15:00:39 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Malcolm (Tom) Sanford, Florida Extension Apiculturist" Subject: February issue of APIS Distributed to: USR:[MTS]INTERNET.DIS;12, mts, mts FILENAME: FEBAPIS.94 Florida Extension Beekeeping Newsletter Apis--Apicultural Information and Issues (ISSN 0889-3764) Volume 12, Number 2, February 1994 FOCUS ON APITHERAPY In conjunction with other forms of "alternative" medicine, the use of bee products in promoting and conserving human health is trying to enter the mainstream. That seemed to be the message at the recent American Beekeeping Federation convention in Orlando. Dr. Brad Weeks, an MD and president of the American Apitherapy Society, held forth for several hours on the subject. The audience, a mixture of true believers and skeptics, intently probed Dr. Weeks for kernels of information to support their respective views on this controversial subject. Dr. Weeks was careful to discriminate between the role of the Society and that of a physician. The Society cannot recommend treatment; only the individual doctor is able to do this. The Apitherapy Society's function, Dr. Weeks said, is to gather information and place it in the hands of beekeepers, patients and physicians. Toward this end, the Society has established The Multi-Center Apitherapy Study (MCAS), which is gathering as much data as possible on benefits of apitherapy. Anyone undergoing therapy should fill out a standard form which can then be used along with others as a testimonial to effectiveness. Some 4,000 arthritis suffers and 1,700 with multiple sclerosis (MS) are currently participating in this database. With enough cases cataloged, Dr. Weeks said, it will be increasingly difficult for conventional medical authorities to ignore the virtues of apitherapy. Increased exposure in the media, according to Dr. Weeks, has caused a great surge in Society membership; up to 3,000 from the 40 or so that has been traditional. Phone the Society at 800-823-3460 or the MCAS at 206/579-1632 for more information on their programs. The membership fee stands at $35.00 a year; mail checks to 3220 E. Swede Hill Rd., Clinton, WA 98236, phone/fax 206/579-1532. The Society defines apitherapy as "...medicinal use of honey bee products including bee venom, raw honey, pollen, royal jelly, wax and propolis." Two of these were discussed in some detail by Dr. Weeks in his presentation: venom and raw honey. Exciting research on bee venom, according to Dr. Weeks, indicates that it has pronounced anti-inflammatory, analgesic and immunostimulant properties, bolstering claims of effective treatment for a wide variety of diseases. He cautioned that how the venom actually works is a mystery, but that encouraging more research along this line is one of the American Apitherapy Society's missions. Bee venom is a poison, he said, but so are most substances when used in excess. Thus, venom therapy becomes a matter of dosage based on individual needs. Bee venom is a complex of various chemicals which Dr. Weeks divided into various metaphors derived from the game of football. He characterized as "front line" players: hyaluronidase, phospholipase A and histamine. These tend to soften up tissues, promoting circulation, allowing the other constituents access to localized sites. He said melittin, apamin, MCD-peptide and adolapin were like "running backs," and the "utility players" were dopamine and norepinephrine. Melittin, which is 50% of the dry weight of whole venom, is a powerful antibacterial and anti-inflammatory agent, Dr. Weeks said. Apamin produces anti-inflammation without compromising the immune system. It may be the main substance responsible for reducing symptoms of MS. MCD-peptide is important, according to Dr. Weeks, because there are many receptor sites for it in the hippocampus of the human brain. It, along with adolapin, may contribute to clearing up "fuzzy thinking" as reported by some patients. Dopamine and norepinephrine are neurotransmitters which can enhance communication throughout the nervous system. Their use may be important in treating Parkinson's disease. The systemic effects of bee venom also include stimulating the adrenal glands to produce cortisol, according to Dr. Weeks, a related compound to hydroxy-cortisol, or cortisone. The latter is often prescribed as an anti-inflammatory. Taking a page from the Physician's Desk Reference (PDR), he then proceeded to show the range of currently medically accepted products based on cortisol and the maladies for which they are prescribed. The list was similar to the one containing diseases for which bee venom has been recommended. And, although commercially available cortisone has shown deleterious side effects in some cases, Dr. Weeks said, cortisol, produced by the body, does not. There are a number of principles of apitherapy, according to Dr Weeks. First and foremost is informed consent by the patient. The patient-physician relationship has broken down, Dr. Weeks said. Instead of being the all-powerful god-like figure of today, the original physician was a teacher. Communication between the afflicted and doctors must be a two-way street or little healing will result. Working with symptoms instead of against them is also important Dr. Weeks said. Itching, for example, is a symptom of healing. Some patients, when confronted with itching, may refuse more treatment, even though it is a sign that things are improving. Another is trying to lower a temperature. The heat is in fact destroying viruses and other organisms that are responsible for unhealthy conditions. As Hippocrates said, quoted by Dr. Weeks, "Give me the power to create a fever and I will cure all illness." Another principle is that a "crisis" is often necessary before any healing can take place. The crisis is like a call to arms, Dr. Weeks said. It gets the body's immune system's attention that something is really wrong. He quoted a physician named Hamerman, "You can never cure a chronic illness, the best you can hope for is to make it acute, and then you can cure it." Finally, Dr. Weeks said, the placebo effect exists. This is the observed fact that some patients get better no matter what the treatment. Something inherent in the doctor-patient relationship often stimulates healing in and of itself. This effect, along with other therapies, should not be ignored and can be used to the patient's benefit. The bottom line, Dr. Weeks concluded, is the patient's welfare and all means should be brought to bear to improve it. With reference to liability, Dr. Weeks said that beekeepers are usually not at risk when providing bees for treatment. This is especially true if no money changes hands. He concluded that the risk was worth taking if venom therapy helps even one patient. Most recently, there has been great interest in using bee venom therapy to treat multiple sclerosis (MS). Information on near miraculous recoveries by some was published in American Bee Journal, see the July, 1993 APIS. Dr. Weeks passed out information from North America's best known apitherapist, Charles Mraz, specifically concerning treatment of MS. What follows is a condensation of that information: 1. MS involves the neurological system; it is important to treat all nerve meridians in rotation. The spine is a main nerve meridian to be treated. 2. Before beginning, always make a test sting near the area most affected. Remove the sting after a minute or two and wait fifteen minutes to see if hypersensitivity develops. [Editor's comment: trouble breathing, vomiting, hives are often considered signs of hypersensitivity]. After this test, start treatment with five or more stings along a nerve meridian. 3. It is best to apply stings to trigger points or "hot spots." These are very sensitive spots along nerve meridians and can be found by pressing firmly with the thumb. Mark the spots with a pen. If trigger points cannot be found, applying stings along meridians will usually be effective. 4. Normally, five to fifteen stings are applied on appropriate nerve meridians three times per week. First treatments may not produce much swelling, but further ones will. Extensive swelling, heat and itching are to be encouraged. This "reactive stage" indicates the body's healing powers are being mobilized. The main precaution is not to try to administer more bee stings than the body can handle. [Editor's comment: this can be extremely variable, ranging from 100 to several thousand]. 5. Continue treatment for at least six months to ensure giving the therapy a chance to work. All cases respond differently. The only way to find out if this kind of therapy works is to try it. When symptoms are no longer present, treatment can be discontinued. Treatment can be resumed at any time. There is much to gain and little to lose trying bee venom therapy for MS, lupus erythematosus and scleroderma, as well as the vast family of rheumatic diseases. 6. Bees for treatment should be placed in a small jar with a tablespoon of honey, preferably crystallized or in comb so that they don't become mired. Bees can be collected even in winter by rubbing the jar's opening over a 3/4" hole in a hive. The disturbed bees come running out into the jar. For treatment, chilled bees can be picked by the thorax with long six-inch tweezers, crushed, and the abdomen applied to the site. The sting site can be treated with ice prior to stinging and even local anesthetic might be used. Other therapies based on bee products are also part of the Society's work, Dr. Weeks said. Using "raw" honey is of significance in everything from post nasal drip and pink eye to diaper rash. Perhaps its most universal use, however, is in burn treatment. Dr. Weeks mentioned an effective treatment used in the Far East, based somewhat on honey, called "Moist Exposed Bee Ointment" (MEBO). This, he said, was far less painful and expensive than others currently in use in the United States. Because the therapy depends to some extent on hydrogen peroxide produced by glucose oxidase, honey must not be heated, or the reaction will be compromised. Although therapies based on bee venom and raw honey appear to have a good deal of merit, the Society skates onto thin ice when describing the benefits of other hive products in its literature. It allies itself with those who have described bee collected pollen as the world's "only perfectly complete food," with "all" the essential vitamins and minerals needed by humankind. As Dr. Justin Schmidt said on page 931 in the newest edition of The Hive and the Honey Bee: "Simple evidence that pollen is not a perfect (human) food comes from the fact that pollen contains no, or essentially insignificant, levels of the lipid-soluble vitamins D, K, and E." The Society also says that royal jelly "...is the world's best example of 'You are what you eat.' This is the substance fed to the queen bee larva which allows her to develop into a genetically complete (fertile) insect." Both workers and queens are genetically complete; the queen is able to lay fertilized eggs only because of sperm donated by drones. Again, Dr. Schmidt, on page 970 of the volume mentioned above, said: "It is not uncommon to hear that royal jelly has some gonadotropic or otherwise sex- enhancing action, an opinion that is emotionally pleasing since royal jelly is the sole food of one of the most productive organisms on earth--the queen honey bee. Any validity to these ideas was thoroughly dispelled over 50 years ago in excellent studies demonstrating that royal jelly had no gonadotropic effects on female rats and contains no nutritionally active levels of vitamin E, the fat-soluble vitamin first recognized for its crucial role in reproduction." Clearly the work of the American Apitherapy Society is needed not only to improve the health of humankind, but also that of the beekeeping industry. Ultimately, this boils down to delivering quality information to physicians, patients and beekeepers alike. Like most organizations, the Society will have to carefully choose from the many available sources. This means working closely with the likes of the National Honey Board and Cooperative Extension Service, something not often apparent from reading its literature. If a true demand for therapeutic products from the beehive existed, this would provide significant alternative income for many in the apicultural industry. It is incumbent on the American Apitherapy Society, however, to ensure that it has done the best possible job ensuring long-range survival of any product that might be developed as a result of its activities. Malcolm T. Sanford Bldg 970, Box 110620 University of Florida Gainesville, FL 32611-0620 Phone (904) 392-1801, Ext. 143 FAX: 904-392-0190 BITNET Address: MTS@IFASGNV INTERNET Address: MTS@GNV.IFAS.UFL.EDU ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Feb 1994 21:03:01 -0800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: John Robert Bidleman Subject: Re: gloves In-Reply-To: <199402171817.AA11497@crl.crl.com> Absolutely Jane...I ahve a friend who was at one time a partner in the apiary in Santa Cruz. He had red hair, freckles and a temper. No matter how absolutely calm or gentle he was, the bees ALWAYS went for him and at nearly every hive! He would get stung through his suit whilst I would be working away barehanded with only 2-3 stings. I told him to shower sans soap beforehand, I tried having him use mouthwash (don't laugh, mammal breath is not popular with bees) and I observed him. Bees loved to sting him and he was finally discouraged and found other tasks to do. I can't explain it and I have seen it only once before with a similar situation. jrb ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Feb 1994 23:05:07 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "La Reine de la Cite' des Phoques (Liz Day)" Subject: Rick Hough, what is your email address again? thanks Liz Day University of Illinois at Chicago day@eecs.uic.edu ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Feb 1994 22:47:16 -0800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: John Robert Bidleman Subject: Re: gloves In-Reply-To: <199402171735.AA05714@crl.crl.com> On Thu, 17 Feb 1994, John Klueh wrote: > >I am not sure what kind of bees you have there but in my neck of the > >woods if you get close to hives in the heat of the summer ... well you are > >asking for trouble. Of course you can get close if you get used to the idea > >and *behave* properly. But still there is a chance that you will be attacked. > >Now operating inside the hive is another story though. I would never > >dream of doing that unless I am fully clothed. And that is how it has worked > >out for others around here. -{CUT} > > > >Any suggestions in improving this condition will be appreciated. > > > >Andreas > > Gee, my experiences are quite different! A clear, hot, calm sunny day in the My experience also is different. I had ( and have ) a few trouble hives but after requeening, no problem. I wonder if there are other factors since you mention everyone in you area concurs. jrb ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 Feb 1994 13:50:52 +0000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Malcolm Roe Subject: Re: gloves In-Reply-To: <199402171345124096@qmmac.read.tasc.com> from "Rick Hough" at Feb 17, 94 01:45:12 pm > One thing to keep in mind while we converse > on the BEE-L is that many of the participants are not from the USA. This > contributes to the diversity of experiences reported on the list. I am > not at all surprised to hear Andreas report how nasty bees have always been, > while others don't even wear protective gear. I noticed that Andreas's e-mail > address ended in .CY - I'm not up on my internet addressing, but I KNOW that > is not in the US!! Maybe Andreas has grown up dealing with African Honey > Bees, and considers their temperament to be normal, whereas others are used to > a "kinder, gentler" type of bee. .CY is Cyprus. The summers there are very hot and dry. There is no forage after the spring. I would guess that Andreas's bees are just being protective. My bees (in England) show similar behaviour although nowhere nearly as bad. During the main flow which, in my area is May, I can handle them without gloves and rarely get stung. In August, although it is nowhere near as hot and dry as in Cyprus, there is very little forage and my bees become distinctly bad tempered so I normally put on gloves. It is also possible that Cypriot bees are naturally bad tempered. I don't think there is any problem with AHB but Cyprus is a small country and it's quit possible that no selective breeding has been done. Perhaps Andreas could tell us more. A friend of mine, a member of my local beekeeping association, was for many years a successful small beekeeper. She was notorious for the bad temper of her bees but she was happy with them. She used to say, "Well, they may be bad tempered, but I'm used to them and they are good honey getters." Recently she went to live in Cyprus. After a time she decided to keep bees again and got some through a contact in the Cyprus Ministry of Agriculture. She wrote to me saying that they were so bad tempered that she'd have to get rid of them. There was no pleasure in it at all. For her to react that way they must have been bad! -- Malcolm Roe Phone : +44 442 230000 ext 4104 Crosfield Electronics Ltd Fax : +44 442 232301 Hemel Hempstead, Herts. HP2 7RH, UK E-mail : roe@crosfield.co.uk ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 Feb 1994 09:15:46 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Peter Kevan Subject: Red-headed beekeepers: gloves I have heard it said that Red-heads seem to attract bees to sting them. Peter Kevan ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 Feb 1994 16:19:21 +0000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: ALLSOPP Subject: Please help me signoff I'm sorry to trouble the list with this, and I know we've been here before, but please could the listowner(s) help me signoff this list. I've tried sending a signoff message to the listserv, but just get a reply that I can't be found under my current address, tho' my name does appear in the lsit membership. Meanwhile the mails keep coming in... Many thanks, Liz(allsopp@afrc.ac.uk) ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 Feb 1994 06:46:38 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Dave D. Cawley, a De Leon Socialist" Subject: Re: Bee Beards > From: Robert Rice > Has anyone out there done a bee beard and if so what > technique did they use and how successful was it? Oh yes, what > was their motivation for doing it ? Sheer insanity?!? 8-} ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Dave D. Cawley | University Of Scranton | This message brought to you by BUN AND RUN, ddc1@jaguar.uofs.edu | where we make burgers much more fun. ddc1@SCRANTON | ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 Feb 1994 16:45:03 AST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Blair Sampson Subject: Re: Red-headed beekeepers: gloves Peter, Bees must see the world through rose colored glasses!! Since bees are essentially blind to the color red, there must be another underlying motivation to their madness. Hmmm, maybe a bad haircut or perm... - Blair- "BEES OR BUST" +++++ +++ + +++ ++ .***....++........ ++ .**.********..++++++++++++.. ** *********** ****************. .*. ********** ***.**************** .**.*..****** .**...*************** ** .* **. *** ********** *. *. *. **** ****** * * ** *** ** . . * **.. ____________________________________ BLAIR SAMPSON Dept. of Biology Acadia University Wolfville, N.S. BOP 1XO, Canada 881305s@axe.acadiau.ca ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 Feb 1994 16:17:23 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Peter Kevan Subject: Re: Red-headed beekeepers: gloves Red-headed people do have slightly different body chemistry compared with that of other caucasians. I don't know what the differences are. My Father was a red-head and I seem to remember his explaining that to me when I was a child. I hope this doesn't cause ravings of political incorrectness. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 Feb 1994 17:41:08 AST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Blair Sampson Subject: Re: Red-headed beekeepers: gloves Peter, I always found Apis to be poor judges of character. Others have talked about perspiration as the key component for honey bees targeting certain bee keepers. I know from experience that many native bees regard sweaty humans, as warm, giant salt licks. Perhaps honey bees become trapped under clothing as they check out people as well. Undoubtably, the presence of a large sweaty mammmal would alert hive bees of impending danger. Sounds logical.. Blair P.S. Peter, I enjoyed your paper on native and honey bee pollination (1991, I believe). "BEES OR BUST" +++++ +++ + +++ ++ .***....++........ ++ .**.********..++++++++++++.. ** *********** ****************. .*. ********** ***.**************** .**.*..****** .**...*************** ** .* **. *** ********** *. *. *. **** ****** * * ** *** ** . . * **.. ____________________________________ BLAIR SAMPSON Dept. of Biology Acadia University Wolfville, N.S. BOP 1XO, Canada 881305s@axe.acadiau.ca ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 Feb 1994 17:24:46 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: David Schmitt Subject: reference request In-Reply-To: <01H91D9UAZVK000ZDT@uvmvax.uvm.edu> On Fri, 18 Feb 1994, Blair Sampson wrote: > Blair > > P.S. Peter, I enjoyed your paper on native and honey bee pollination > (1991, I believe). This sounds like an interesting subject, is there a reference? dschmitt ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 Feb 1994 19:07:41 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Jim G. Shoemaker" Subject: TO GLOVE OR NOT TO GLOVE - - IS THAT THE QUESTION? Bee Friends: When I started with bees several years ago I wore about every piece of protective equipment I could find and afford. As I grew in experience (aged), I steadily reduced the bundle. As a number of other netters have indicated, I no longer own gloves and usually, if weather permits, work in short sleeves. I do, however, unless it's for a quick 'pop a top' wear a veil. The risk is too great and the discomfort too slight to not use a veil. I believe we should basically wear what we are comfortable with, balancing security with comfort. I also belleve we should encourage beginning 'keepers' to wear 'full' dress until they are not so nervous about possible stings. For 'safe' keeping, Jim Shoemaker Brookline (near Springfield) MO jshoemak@ozarks.sgcl.lib.mo.us ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Feb 1994 20:53:22 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Michael Moroney Subject: Re: gloves In-Reply-To: <199402171039.AA12089@world.std.com> > I am not sure what kind of bees you have there but in my neck of the > woods if you get close to hives in the heat of the summer ... well you are > asking for trouble. Of course you can get close if you get used to the idea > and *behave* properly. But still there is a chance that you will be attacked. > Now operating inside the hive is another story though. I would never > dream of doing that unless I am fully clothed. And that is how it has worked > out for others around here. > > Removing supers,frames and honey that is the job of warriors in full > battle gear. And if you accidentally kill a couple, then you are really asking for > en masse (sp?) attack. For some reason the buzzing noise made by bees > being killed or the smell of those squashed trigger the red alarm. > > NOTE: I have been around bees for as long as I can remember and these > are my experiences NOT my FEARS!! I get stung many times in a year but I > am not asking for trouble. > > Any suggestions in improving this condition will be appreciated. Where you located? (I don't recognize a .CY address other than it's not in the USA) If South or Central America I'd say those were the Africanized honeybees that have just started invading the southwest US. Anyway, around here on a nice sunny day the bees are too busy out gathering nectar, and almost don't care if you open their hive. Most beekeepers would requeen a hive as mean as the one you describe. It is true that killing bees does trigger the defensive mechanism in other bees. -Mike ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 19 Feb 1994 08:24:42 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Dave D. Cawley, a De Leon Socialist" Subject: Why Does Requeening Work? > From: Michael Moroney > Anyway, around here on a nice sunny day the bees are too busy out gathering > nectar, and almost don't care if you open their hive. Most beekeepers > would requeen a hive as mean as the one you describe. It is true that > killing bees does trigger the defensive mechanism in other bees. How does requeening calm a mean hive? ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Dave D. Cawley | University Of Scranton | This message brought to you by BUN AND RUN, ddc1@jaguar.uofs.edu | where we make burgers much more fun. ddc1@SCRANTON | ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 19 Feb 1994 11:01:59 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: tcmayo@2757T021.PSF.GE.COM Subject: Re: Why Does Requeening Work? >From: "Dave D. Cawley, a De Leon Socialist" >Subject: Why Does Requeening Work? > >> From: Michael Moroney >> Anyway, around here on a nice sunny day the bees are too busy out gathering >> nectar, and almost don't care if you open their hive. Most beekeepers >> would requeen a hive as mean as the one you describe. It is true that >> killing bees does trigger the defensive mechanism in other bees. > > How does requeening calm a mean hive? > The new queen has already been on her mating flights and therefore does not need any genetic material from the existing colony. Presumably the new queen has been bred to have good traits such as calmness. Eventually her progeny dominate the disposition of the colony, thus calming the hive. _________ /___ ___/\ Tom Mayo \__/ /\__\/ tcmayo@eng01.psf.ge.com / /_/_______ / ___ ___ /\ / /\_/ /\_/ / / /_/ //_/ //_/ / \_\/ \_\/ \_\/ ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 20 Feb 1994 07:58:00 +1300 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: NICKW@WAIKATO.AC.NZ Subject: Pest/disease free bees... BEES AND QUEENS FROM NEW ZEALAND? Two topics of recent postings have been the potential spread and impact of AHB into the northern USA and Canada, and the impact of mites on management of hives. Now might be a good time to suggest that perhaps those beekeepers in the northern USA might prefer to get their queens and/or packages from the queen exporting nation with with the world's most enviable disease status. I would be interested to hear some opinions as to why we have found it so difficult to negotiate access to the US for our bees. Interesting that the historical reason came from back in 1922, when the US was afraid of importing Acarine. Kind of difficult to maintain that justification, eh? Apart from the 'we wouldn't want to accidentally import something new that no one knows anything about' argument, what REAL reasons exist (technical, not market) for not allowing NZ bee and queens into the US? As an aside, I'll point out that our industry several years ago hired a fulltime bee pathologist to conduct a full scale survey of our bee pest and disease status - we're probably one of the most intensively surveyed and inspected beekeeping countries in the world! I'd also be interested to hear reasons that the border SHOULD be opened - what sort of support does exist? IS there a market for bees and queens that have a PROVEN quality? --------------------------------------------------- Nick Wallingford (Tauranga, on the east coast of the North Island of New Zealand - kiwifruit pollination centre of New Zealand and the world!) Internet nickw@waikato.ac.nz --------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 19 Feb 1994 14:37:00 MST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Nordin Zeidner Subject: Re: Pest/disease free bees... In-Reply-To: <9402191905.AA26908@lobo.rmh.pr1.k12.co.us>; from "NICKW@WAIKATO.AC.NZ" at Feb 20, 94 7:58 am I would think there would be tremendous potential for poven queens and disease free bees for import into the U.S. I'm sure the beekeeping industry here is concerned with competition, not necessarily the disease state of NZ bees or the quality per se. My own humble amateur beekeeping opinion...nord zeidner, Fort Collins, CO. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 19 Feb 1994 17:48:00 CST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: P30LEK1@NIU.BITNET Subject: Re: gloves Mike- When I first started keeping bees - about eight years ago - I had the same remorse over squashing bees as I closed up the hive. I still do squash a few, but I have developed a system that works for me. I let a little smoke float across the top of the hive body (to give me a head start). Then I slowly lower the inner cover down about twenty degrees of of its final position. this rotation gives me a smaller surface area for squishing the ladies. If I lower it slowly enough, they all get out of the way. Once the top is down, I rotate it slowly, hoping to chase my small cohorts out of the way. This seems to work for me. Larry Krengel Marengo, IL USA ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 19 Feb 1994 17:57:00 CST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: P30LEK1@NIU.BITNET Subject: Re: gloves Andreas- Where are you from and what kind of bees do you keep that have such a poor disposition. If I had such problems, I would requeen ... quickly. Larry Krengel Marengo, IL USA ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 19 Feb 1994 22:55:00 GMT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: ANDY NACHBAUR Subject: Pest/disease free bees... To: BEE-L@UACSC2.ALBANY.EDU Subject: Pest/disease free bees... +-------------------------------+ ###From: NICKW@WAIKATO.AC.NZ ###Subject: Pest/disease free bees... ###Date: Sun, 20 Feb 1994 07:58:00 +1300 ### ###BEES AND QUEENS FROM NEW ZEALAND? ### ###I would be interested to hear some opinions as to why we have ###found it so difficult to negotiate access to the US for our bees. ###Interesting that the historical reason came from back in 1922, when ###the US was afraid of importing Acarine. Kind of difficult to ###maintain that justification, eh? ### ###I'd also be interested to hear reasons that the border SHOULD be ###opened - what sort of support does exist? IS there a market for ###bees and queens that have a PROVEN quality? ### ###--------------------------------------------------- ### Nick Wallingford ### (Tauranga, on the east coast of the North Island ### of New Zealand - kiwifruit pollination centre of ### New Zealand and the world!) +-------------------------------+ Hi Nick, I see no advantage in buying queens or bees from any area that is "disease free", if you are going to maintain those bees in an area that is not "disease free". In my opinion its better to buy proven stock that co exists with the pests, diseases, and parasites in the area one hopes to keep the bees. We have all the problems and are on the continual watch for more here in California. Stock that interests us comes from areas of the world that also has these same problems and succeeds in spite of them. Our priorities are reversed, what you are see as an advantage may be a better reason not to buy. We do expect the bees and queens we buy to be healthy when we get them, not necessarily from a "disease free" area. But then we are only the ones who are spending the money... The question of open boarders is a political question driven by economics and little science. Check your own regulations before pot shotting at ours. A few short years ago several northern California beekeepers on hearing of the finding of a "mite" in the southern states bees spent a lot of time at Canadian meeting hyping the disastrous effects of this pest on Canadian beekeepers if it were allowed to enter Canada. They picked up a lot of business for their "disease free" bees. A short time later the very same pests were found in their own bees, the boarder closed on them and never has reopened. The fact is that in the United States we have a surplus of queen production and are able to supply the market with bees that we know what the problems are. We don't have any idea on what your problems are other then you would like to have part of our market and say your country is "disease free". This is at odds to what your beekeepers tell us when they come to visit, work and learn? If you really want to see the boarder opened to queens from your country, cut the BS about "disease free", we have heard it before, we may have invented it. Show us how you can deliver healthy queens and bees at competitive prices when we need them and we may show you some interest in opening the boarder. __ __ ttul Andy- / \ \^+^/ / \ \ \(O O)/ / Wild Bee's BBS \ \\_// //-->> BEENET.COM -----------------oOO--Y--OOo------------------------------------ ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 19 Feb 1994 20:22:12 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Adam Finkelstein Subject: Re: Pest/disease free bees... In-Reply-To: <199402200016.AA30237@Hopper.itc.Virginia.EDU> from "ANDY NACHBAUR" at Feb 19, 94 10:55:00 pm RE: queens from another continent... Queens made well locally always blow the doors off shipped queens, if the queen producer knows how to make queens. Sure its great to use good stock in a breeding program, but a poorly made blue -blood queen is never a match for a well fed, well mated local queen. The optimum queens are made well from good stock! Selecting stock from populations under pressure of parasites and disease will always give you better results, IF your selection is accurate. Adam -- =============================================================================== Adam Finkelstein VDACS Apiary Inspector 116 Reservoir St Harrisonburg VA 22801 703-433-1006 (V) 703-434-5607 (Fax) 703-564-4394 (Pager) adamf@hopper.itc.virginia.edu adamf@vtaix.cc.vt.edu |Bees To Please| ================================================================================ ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 20 Feb 1994 00:34:00 CST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: P30LEK1@NIU.BITNET Subject: Re: Bee Beards Robert- Our beekeepers group created a bee beard at one of our summer meetings. It was just for fun. Our 'volunteer' claims he was not stung even once. We tied a queen in a cage under his chin. Then we opened the hive from which she had come and shook one frame at a time until we had a few pounds of bees on his chest. (He was wearing a t-shirt.) The bees climbed right up and clustered on the queen cage. By the way, we stuffed cotton in his nose and ears... It seemed wise. Larry Krengel Marengo, IL USA ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 20 Feb 1994 19:51:00 +1300 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: NICKW@WAIKATO.AC.NZ Subject: NZ pest/disease status... If the comments of Andy Nachbaur and Adam Finkelstein are good indicators, we shouldn't have trouble getting access to compete fairly on the US market. If what they believe is true, we simply wouldn't be able to sell any, as there would be no demand. #We don't have any idea on what your problems are other #then you would like to have part of our market and say your country #is "disease free". This is at odds to what your beekeepers tell us #when they come to visit, work and learn? Cryptic enough. What does it mean? Are you suggesting that New Zealand is aware of bee pests and diseases that we don't declare to the rest of the world? That unnamed individuals that you've met know that we have pests and diseases that we keep hidden from the rest of the world? And Andy, go back to re-read the posting. Apart from the title, where I refer to 'Pest/disease free bees...', I don't talk about New Zealand being pest or disease free. It's not. We DO have bee pests and diseases, we inspect SERIOUSLY, we monitor and conduct exotic surveillance, we have registration of sites to ensure we CAN identify and respond to any potential outbreak as effectively as possible. And we have export certification that ensures we comply to provide the product we claim to provide. We DO know what pests and diseases we have, believe it or not! So far I've heard why no one would WANT to buy our bees - they don't come from an area with ENOUGH pests and diseases and shipping damages queen potential. How about some reasons why we shouldn't be given the chance to try? ------------------------------------- Nick Wallingford (East coast, N Island, New Zealand) Internet nickw@waikato.ac.nz ------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 20 Feb 1994 15:57:00 GMT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: ANDY NACHBAUR Subject: NZ pest/disease status... +-------------------------------+ ###From: NICKW@WAIKATO.AC.NZ ###Subject: NZ pest/disease status... ###Date: Sun, 20 Feb 1994 19:51:00 +1300 ### ###New Zealand being pest or disease free. It's not. We DO have ###bee pests and diseases, we inspect SERIOUSLY, we monitor and ###conduct exotic surveillance, we have registration of sites to ###ensure we CAN identify and respond to any potential outbreak as ###effectively as possible. And we have export certification that ###ensures we comply to provide the product we claim to provide. We ###DO know what pests and diseases we have, believe it or not! ### ###So far I've heard why no one would WANT to buy our bees - they ###don't come from an area with ENOUGH pests and diseases and ###shipping damages queen potential. How about some reasons why we ###shouldn't be given the chance to try? +-------------------------------+ Hi Nick, I don't know how to make it any clearer.. I buy queens, I also have shipped queens and bees. You must be able to sell me on why I should buy your queens and not buy them from someone else..then you may get a chance to sell me some queens or bees. Your post reads like its from someone in the regulatory business that is selling better regulations. I buy bees from beekeepers not regulators, I buy them based on the recommendation of other beekeepers and trial and error. Price is the first consideration. Shipping dates is the 2nd. It is good to know that you are proud of what your country is doing to protect beekeepers, my country says they are doing the same for me.. The problem is that the bees could care less. There are indeed a few here, inside and out of government, that would remove all restrictions for economic reasons, others would have them stay the same for economic reasons. Because of recent negative political actions on the bee industry the balance is in favor of keeping all import regulations unless the industry asks for change. I am not trying to insult you, only respond to your question. The thing that drives trade between countries is economics. I do not believe you have shown how I would benefit from the purchasing queens from New Zealand, other then you have the worlds best pest detection system. This is great for your beekeepers but has little value to me as a prospective customer who understands the difference between the good intentions of inspections schemes and the nature of bees and realities of keeping bees healthy. (..) 0 ____ 0 ttul Andy- \ / __ \ / --/ (__) \-- DOODLE BUG =\ /= -|--|- | |##| | \ ## / ## ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 20 Feb 1994 12:41:47 -0800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: John Robert Bidleman Subject: Re: NZ pest/disease status... In-Reply-To: <199402201951.AA27952@crl.crl.com> Andy....re; you're thread with Nick from New Zealand; Can you supply me with a couple of phone numbers of package/queen sellers? thanks ---------------------------------------------------------------------- | robbee@crl.com Box 721 Healdsburg CA | | 95448 | | The sound of the Golden Harp shall never die | ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 19 Feb 1994 16:50:01 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Michael Moroney Subject: Re: Why Does Requeening Work? In-Reply-To: <199402191328.AA02142@world.std.com> > > From: Michael Moroney > > Anyway, around here on a nice sunny day the bees are too busy out gathering > > nectar, and almost don't care if you open their hive. Most beekeepers > > would requeen a hive as mean as the one you describe. It is true that > > killing bees does trigger the defensive mechanism in other bees. > > How does requeening calm a mean hive? The behavior ("meanness") of bees is genetic to a certain extent. The queen is the mother of all the bees, so her genes (and that of the drones that had mated with her) determine the behavior of her offspring, the workers. A new queen (assumed from a reputable queen breeder or a "nice" hive) will produce less agressive bees, so after the period of time it takes for most of the older "mean" bees to die off the hive will be "nice". A mean hive is likely to have undergone natural queen replacement and the queen probably mated with wild drones. Mean bees are more likely to survive in the wild so a random wild drone is likely to have mean genes to pass on. -Mike ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Feb 1994 13:23:16 GMT+120 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Dr WJ Muller Subject: Re: Pest/disease free bees... Hi! > Queens made well locally always blow the doors off shipped queens, > if the queen producer knows how to make queens. > Sure its great to use good stock in a breeding program, but a poorly made > blue -blood queen is never a match for a well fed, well mated local queen. > The optimum queens are made well from good stock! How does one recognise an "optimum queen"? does one assume, from her lineage (and selection programme) that she should be good, or is there something one looks for in an emerging queen? what is the definition of an "optimum queen"? cheerio, nikite ----- Nikite Muller - Department of Zoology - University of Fort Hare P. Bag X1314 - Alice 5700 - South Africa E-mail: muller@zoo.ufh.ac.za ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Feb 1994 12:17:44 +0000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: POPPY Subject: Re: northern extent of AHB In-Reply-To: <"16207 Wed Feb 16 16:22:30 1994"@afrc.ac.uk> Dear beeliners, This has nothing to with AHB but i wanted to quickly use the reply command to send a message. I wish to obtain some industrila corn syrup for feeding to bees. Can anyone give me the compositions normally offered by companies. I wish to feed the syrup to bumblebees in it's neat state - preferably approx 70% sugars without dilution to cut down work and reduce fermentation problems. Has anyone got any ideas about the simplest way of producing/obtaining syrups which do not ferment and require minimal effort. I would appreciate any addresses which are in the UK if at all possible. Best wishes Guy Poppy Dept Entomology/Nematology Rothamsted Experimental Station Harpenden Herts AL5 1BA ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Feb 1994 08:51:05 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ray Lackey Subject: Queen Importation Nick good luck at changing our import regulations. It may be that the GATT treaty will change things, but US beauracracy is getting huge, and that means tremendous inertia. Even the USDA Bee labs desiring to help by the importation of mite-resistant bees for breeding had to jump through a number of hoops and then had to just distribute the subsequent generations, not the queens themselves. It would be interesting to see an article on the whole story. As to the queens themselves and what makes a good one, it depends on a lot o lot of things. On Long Island, east of New York City, Our honey flow is over by July 4th weekend. From then on they just get enough to survive and hopefully enough to overwinter. The Buckfast queens have typically been too slow to build up in the spring here. My beekeeping friends in Pennsylvania love them though because their flow is summer and fall. With the fear of mites, we tried to close Long Island to all importation of bees and queens several years ago. New York State refused our arguments that we could become an isolated queen breeding area. We suggested that no bees be brought in from continental US. We started using Kona queens from Hawaii. Our experience has not been good. Two out of three hives replace her within a month. This is the experience of a number of beekeepers within the club. Many rated Master Beekeepers by the EAS training and testing program based upon Cornell developed standards. I agree with an earlier writer who said that the best queen is a local, one that has been shown to match the local cycle for brood rearing. Yesterday we had a meeting of the club adn talked again of queens, mites, and sources. The conclusion: manage the overwintered hives for quick build-up, raise your own or buy locally and split late (June) for next year. If you need to start hives, import Hawaii queens, put in small nucs to get them laying, don't put them in a going colony. We talked about the Yugoslavian mit-resistant queens and the Steve Tabor mite resistant queens but the feeling was that the areas they were coming from deffinitly have mites. Not all areas of LI have mites. Why invite trouble? I see I've gotten wordy. Good beekeeping everyone! And remember, after you've read all of those books, BEES DON'T READ! ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ + Raymond J. Lackey + + Beekeeper 10 years with 25 colonies on Long Island, NY+ + INTERNET: rjl7317@hazeltine.com + + Mail: 1260 Walnut Avenue, Bohemia NY 11617 + + Home Phone: 516-567-1936 FAX: 516-262-8053 + ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Feb 1994 16:34:16 +0200 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Andreas Kasenides Subject: Bees with an attitute (was: gloves) In-Reply-To: (Your message of Fri, 18 Feb 94 13:50:52 GMT.) <9402181354.AA23274@jupiter.cca.ucy.cy> Well it seems that my bees (Cypriot bees) have an attitute problem that needs to be corrected!!!! As dear Malcom Roe said CY is the tiny island of Cyprus. I really envy you guys. What do you mean you can handle your bees without gloves. I have never heard of such a thing. The only thing I dare do without protective gear is to open the hive and just inspect from above or at most remove a frame and very carefully inspect and lower back into the hive. ANd you always have to be alert to detect that uneasy bee that can trigger the rest of them. And that is ANY time of the year not just summer. These are not African Honey Bees as someone suggested. But then I wouldn't know if they are. I am not aware of any selective breeding program, but then how do you selectively breed from a bunch of bad tempered hives. What everybody is talking about here is orders of magnitutes better behavior than I've ever seen. I should though mention that all my current hives originated from the same swarm that I found occupying some abandoned equipment some two years ago. I did notice a small difference between this breed and what I thought was normal behavior: 1) slightly more aggresive than usual 2) they do continue to work not only during heavy overcast but also during light rain and I noticed that some of them kept moving outside during medium rainfall. Is this normal? And I may be wrong but it seems that they are superior to what I have experienced up to now in honey gathering. I will need a couple of more seasons to verify this (favorable weather conditions last year). Any thoughts on these? Andreas U. of Cyprus. Nicosia, Cyprus ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Feb 1994 10:42:23 AST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Blair Sampson Subject: Re: reference request Hello David, Yes, there is a reference. Here it is ( if my memory doesn't fail me) Kevan, P.G. 1991. Beekeeping: promoting alternative pollinators. Published by: Can. Fruitgrower Vol. 25. The majority of wild bees and there are about 20,000+ species are not social. They often live in small nests started be a single female bee (foundress). She collects all the food necessary to rear her offspring. After she lays her eggs, she then leaves the nest never to see her offspring again. In some species, solitary bees may nest communally forming large nest aggregations. Traffic around these nest sites may resemble that seen around honey bee hives. Since some of these bees have strong fidelity for certain host plants and are quite pleasant to work with, they may be excellent candidates for commercial management. Some commercially reared bees include: (1) the alfalfa leafcutting bee, Megachile rotundata; (2) the orchard bee, Osmia lignaria; (3) The alkali bee, Nomia melanderi (4) and some species of bumble bees, the list goes on! Good hunting! -Blair "BEES OR BUST" +++++ +++ + +++ ++ .***....++........ ++ .**.********..++++++++++++.. ** *********** ****************. .*. ********** ***.**************** .**.*..****** .**...*************** ** .* **. *** ********** *. *. *. **** ****** * * ** *** ** . . * **.. ____________________________________ BLAIR SAMPSON Dept. of Biology Acadia University Wolfville, N.S. BOP 1XO, Canada 881305s@axe.acadiau.ca ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Feb 1994 10:31:28 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Diana Sammataro Subject: mite discussions I have been reading with interest about mites, bees etc. My recent research about to be published is on the effectiveness of veg. oil (eg. Crisco) patties and mites. We found significatn control if the patties were present all the time in the colony; mite levles went down to 2-10 % (tracheal mites). Some work has been done by Keith Delaplane and Nick Calderone on varroa mites too, using a variety of oil that seem to be effective vs. these mites. All will be published soon as well. Two things to think about: 1. bee resistance. Granted, some bees appear to be able to live with mites or are not affected by them as much (we found this in our control hives using all Carniolan queens from a closed population). A great variation between hives. BUT... bees have 16 chromosomes (2n=32) and mites have 2 chromsomes (2n=4) for TM and n=7 (2n=14) for VM. Since we don't even the what the resistance factors are, they are NOT mutually inclusive (a TM resist. bee is not going to be VM resist), how can we breed for it? 2. Since the mite genome is much simpler, doesn't it make more sense that it is changing, becoming less virulent and more tolerated by bees? (Im speaking of TM now). Why not breed less vir. VM. We seem to be going at it at the wrong end. Ohio State is having a bee mite meeting at the IX international congress this summer. for more information contact Cal Welborn. Dates: July 17-22, contact OSU Acarology Congress, 1315 Kinnear ROad, Columbus, OH 43212; 614 292 7180 phone, 292 7774 fax. Sorry, I don't have the email number handy; will get it. Good luck and hope your bees stay healthy this year. Diana Sammataro ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Feb 1994 19:43:43 +0200 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Dr MH Villet Subject: queen breeding In-Reply-To: <9402211131.AA20340@hippo.ru.ac.za> from "Dr WJ Muller" at Feb 21, 94 01:23:16 pm > How does one recognise an "optimum queen"? does one assume, from her > lineage (and selection programme) that she should be good, or is there > something one looks for in an emerging queen? what is the definition > of an "optimum queen"? Why not ask Bee-L? You will spark a hell of a debate. Act blonde. :) XX -- Martin H. Villet Department of Zoology and Entomology Telephone: 27 [0]461 318-527 Rhodes University Grahamstown 6140 RSA Internet: zomv@hippo.ru.ac.za ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Feb 1994 12:59:15 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: IO71193%MAINE.bitnet@UACSC2.ALBANY.EDU Subject: i Hello Bee Biologists, I found your bitnet address on a how-to-internet file called Bioguide.FAQ and thought I'd give you a try. Would you please send information about discussions you have going? Is there anyone especially keen on bee conservatio n issues who might like to bat some ideas back and forth? Thank you. Sincerely, Alison C. Dibble IO71193@Maine.edu Ph.D. candidate Department of Plant Biology and Pathology 5722 Deering Hall University of Maine, Orono, ME 04469-5722 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Feb 1994 15:01:08 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "JONATHAN B. SIMKINS \\ @GNV.IFAS.UFL.EDU" Subject: QUESTION My name is Jonathan Simkins, and I am a student at the University of Florida. I am taking a class that deals with retrieval of information via internet. My paper is on varroa and tracheal mites. I need information on that subject, or someone I could send an e-mail message to get the information. Also, I sent out a message a couple of weeks ago that was not clear. I apologize for the mix up. I am a new user with the internet, and I can say it is getting better each day. For those of you who wrote me the constructive criticism e-mail notes, thank you, they all have been helpful. Thanks, Jonathan B. Simkins *--------------------------------------------------------* * Jonathan B. Simkins, University of Florida Entomology * * Internet......................KLBSS3@gnv.ifas.ufl.edu * * BITNET........................KLBSS3@ifasgnv * * Phone #.......................(904) 932-1901 ext. 209 * *--------------------------------------------------------* ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Feb 1994 09:16:11 +1100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Robert Rice Subject: Re: Bees with an attitute (was: gloves) -reply In-Reply-To: <9402211437.AA18929@spider.ento.csiro.au> from "Andreas Kasenides" at Feb 21, 94 04:34:16 pm Hi Andreas, Just thought you would like to know that during my commerical queen breeding days we operated 7000 mating colonies. At the end of each 15 day cycle of production (from the introduction of a queen cell until catching of the queen) we routinely caught our queens with out the protection of a vail or gloves. Always had a hat on though as the Australian sun is pretty hot in summer, especially in the northern part of the continent. Actually we often worked our honey hives the same way particularly on hot days. It was't out of some misguided bravery but trying to keep cool. The area that we kept our hive has tempreatures of around 38 degrees celsius and 80% relative humidity in the summer. If you didn't keep cool you could easily get heat stroke. In my younger days I use to do all my beekeeping in short pants. Aggressive behaviour in bees is not only influenced by genetics there is a good deal of the environment envolved. We all know that the weather has alot to do with making the bees aggressive, what I have to come to realize over the years is it's often the floral source that the bees react to. For instance I use to dread working bees when the tea trees flowered, a type of melaleuca that grows on the coastal strip in Eastern Australia. Even on the warmest day the bees often drew blood when they stung and the pain from the stings was very intense. I have been told that bees working on citrus flow also become very aggressive however I have no personal experience in this. It might be interesting if others would comment on their experience with bee behaviour and various floral sources. Robert Rice CSIRO Division of Entomology Canberra, Australia. E-mail robertr@ento.csiro.au ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Feb 1994 14:50:00 -0800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Kerry Clark 784-2225 fax (604) 784 2299" Subject: Stings and floral source I've noticed (ouch, and the impression seems generally shared by beekeepers here) that bees working a Canola honeyflow (Brassica, oilseed rape) in mid June to mid July sting more than one would expect from bees on other flows. One can expect bees to have a better temperament on an apparently similar flow from red or alsike clover or sweetclover (a week or more later, maybe warmer but overlapping conditions). It's hard to get good opportunities for controlled observations, though, because there are other variables: hive population, average age of the bees, weather correlated with blooming of a particular crop. A beekeeper's impression of the difference between "unwarranted" stinging vs rather placid bee behavior may be very memorable, but subtle. Kerry Clark, Apiculture Specialist B.C. Ministry of Agriculture 1201 103 Ave Dawson Creek B.C. V1G 4J2 CANADA Tel (604) 784-2225 fax (604) 784-2299 INTERNET KCLARK@GALAXY.GOV.BC.CA (it's heartening to hear of almond pollination starting: although daylength here is noticeably longer than Christmas time, we have solid winter still: -30 C and 1.5 m of dry snow drifting. It's enough more than normal that anyone who hasn't shovelled their roof is feeling uneasy, a few roofs have collapsed.) ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Feb 1994 20:48:00 GMT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: ANDY NACHBAUR Subject: Bees with an attitute wrote +-------------------------------+ ###From: Andreas Kasenides ###Subject: Bees with an attitute (was: gloves) ###Date: Mon, 21 Feb 1994 16:34:16 +0200 ### ###Well it seems that my bees (Cypriot bees) have an attitute ###problem that needs to be corrected!!!! ### ###I should though mention that all my current hives originated from ###the same swarm that I found occupying some abandoned equipment ###some two years ago. I did notice a small difference between this breed ###and what I thought was normal behavior: 1) slightly more aggresive than ###usual 2) they do continue to work not only during heavy overcast but also ###during light rain and I noticed that some of them kept moving outside ###during medium rainfall. Is this normal? And I may be wrong but it seems ###that they are superior to what I have experienced up to now in honey ###gathering. I will need a couple of more seasons to verify this (favorable ###weather conditions last year). +-------------------------------+ Hi Andreas, Cyproit bees are part of the gene pool in California, as they once were reared here from direct importations in the early 1900's, then legal. In the late 40's as a child I attended the California State Fair. What caught my eye were the glass hives with different breeds of bees. One of these was the Cyproit, that I remember as being a very attractive large dark bee with gray hairs, but that was many years ago, and I am sure many generations below the Cyriot bees you know. When it was popular to make direct importations of bees from every corner of the world, the different breeds were compared and tested after importation. The bees from the Cyprus were judged to be the most aggressive when compared to the bees from Italy, Africa, Russia, and even India. It was interesting that in all tests there were individual local bees that were judged to be even more aggressive. Because of the color of Cyprioit bees at least one beekeepers kept them going on his central California bee farm near Modesto California until at least WW-II. The African bees were discarded as breeding stock as they were not found to be good for anything at the time. As for bees foraging in wet weather, this is common to all bees I have worked with, maybe more so to the darker ones, but not limited to them. If there is something attractive in the field bees will attempt to work if the air temp is high enough. In the costal sections of central California many bees are lost during the spring when they work the eucalyptus trees and other early flowers and are chilled and don't make it back to the hives. In some locations this is so bad that the hives will go weeks without gaining population with 10 of more big frames of brood, some hatching every day. I have worked bees in a good sage flow in the Big Sur area of Monterey county during early summer when it was so foggy we were soaking wet, and the only dry clothing we had were the backs of our coveralls that were covered with bees flying in from the sage and landing on our backs in such numbers that their own absorbed heat would dry and warm our backs. Hives that swarmed in this area would NEVER catch a mated queen. The worker bees would go out for a good go at sucking up the sage nectar, the hives would fill up chuck a block, swarm 100%, but the drones would not leave the hives for sex. Who said bees had human traits! ttul Andy- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Feb 1994 20:28:13 -0800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: John Robert Bidleman Subject: Re: Bees with an attitute (was: gloves) In-Reply-To: <199402211443.AA27134@crl.crl.com> I know only that Cyprians have been credited with possibly being one of=20 the first (if not first) race of bees and that they also have the worst=20 reputation for temper...and also (because of the lack of forage on your=20 island) the most industrious.=20 =B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2= =B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2= =B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2= =B2 =B2 robbee@crl.com John Robert Box 721 Healdsburg CA 95448 = =B2 =B2 = =B2 =B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0= =B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0= =B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0= =B0 =B2 = =B2 =B2 The sound of the Golden Harp shall never die = =B2 =B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2= =B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2= =B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2= =B2 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Feb 1994 21:30:08 -0800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: John Robert Bidleman Subject: Re: Bees with an attitute (was: gloves) -reply In-Reply-To: <199402212222.AA19396@crl.crl.com> While working the colonies in Santa Cruz which foraged mainly on Eucalyptus I hardly wore anything at all. They were the gentlest of bees under all=20 conditions (excepting abuse). I had moved a hive there which was quite fies= ty and in two weeks it seemed to be getting all the more "mellow". I know=20 there was an overabundance of early Acacia and Eucalyptus...what else=20 could have been a factor? I don't know. Ormond Aebi once told me that if yo= u make it easy on the bees, they'll be easy on you. Pretty much common sense. I had hives very near one of his stands at Twin Lakes in Santa Cruz and I= =20 noticed he rarely was bothered yet I was always a bit under pressure with= =20 the bees. One day I approached him and his son and I noticed there was a=20 definite air or attitude about them and I'm sure there are many things=20 like this that affect bees which may be impossible to study. After=20 watching him it was easy to see that he "melded" right in to the hive. After that I always strived to provide all that each colony needed and=20 within easy reach. I never streesed them...intentionally and I think=20 that's a good start. One thing I noticed also is there was plenty of=20 forage year round at Twin Lakes. =B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2= =B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2= =B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2= =B2 =B2 robbee@crl.com John Robert Box 721 Healdsburg CA 95448 = =B2 =B2 = =B2 =B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0= =B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0= =B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0= =B0 =B2 = =B2 =B2 The sound of the Golden Harp shall never die = =B2 =B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2= =B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2= =B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2=B2= =B2 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Feb 1994 22:55:20 -0800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jim Osborn Subject: Re: Stings and Floral Source I've heard anecdotes that bees get mean when working mint, but mine never seem any meaner when they're on the mint flowers. However, around here the mint is one of the last plants to bloom, and I wonder if those anecdotes weren't really just saying that bees get mean at the end of the season. Last summer in our neighborhood EVERYTHING bloomed itself out by the end of July, and the bees were certainly ill tempered for the rest of the year. Kerry Clark's comments: >I've noticed... that bees working a Canola honeyflow (Brassica, >oilseed rape) in mid June to mid July sting more than one would >expect from bees on other flows. One can expect bees to have a >better temperament on an apparently similar flow from red or alsike >clover or sweetclover (a week or more later, maybe warmer but >overlapping conditions). indicate that the nectar source really might contribute to temper, or at least that temper doesn't necessarily deteriorate as the season progresses. But as Kerry also says, it's hard to study quantitatively. I'd love to hear more. jimo@hebron.connected.com Camano Island, WA, USA 206-629-3813 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Feb 1994 09:01:16 -0200 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Zigurds Vaivods Subject: Re: Definition of beekeeping !? Jim Shoemaker writes >From a commercial beekeeper's point I would agree that it is somewhat of a >struggle, however, as a sideline or hobbist I consider it more of an >opportunity to view and appreciate one thrilling activity of nature. How I understand the main objections is against the term struggle, I can change it with care, but it seems to moderate for me. If you (as beekeeper hobbyist) have inter est on bee race, quality of bee queens; have treatment for bee colonies, make a life ea sier for colony by adding new vax scales, removing old combs, perform feeding, rearra nge broad nest, move colonies closer to nectar plants, choose hive to match climate , you follow my definition (consciously or no). Are you a beekeeper if not? >I contacted you by land line several weeks ago and indicated an interest >in obtaining a copy of your "bee population model." I suppose there are some misunderstandings or you change me for other person. Occasionally I have such a model, but it is never published and is not known for wider society. It is old model (1985), very primitive and I use it to show the influen ce of queen quality on colony development for the 1st year beekeeping students. It is inconvenient for me to show this model to specialists. I suppose this model i s not interesting also for beekeeping historicals. Almars Berzonis. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Feb 1994 09:01:45 -0200 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Zigurds Vaivods Subject: Re: Definition of beekeeping !? Jerry Bromenshenk writes >I don't pretend to know what it all means, but we have invested 5 years >into building a computer simulation model that takes most of these >factors into consideration in an attempt to model the population dynamics >of bees and mites. We are nearly ready to beta test our latest version, >which runs on IBM-compatible PC computers. Your model seems to be very interesting for me, especially the population dynamics depending on temperature and time. I am ready to take part in testing of your model. Do you have any information on models describing the time when bees start breeding in spring depending on climate and bee race? Almars Berzonis ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Feb 1994 23:28:40 -0800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jim Osborn Subject: Re: Queen Importation Ray Lackey writes: >We talked about the Yugoslavian mit-resistant queens and the Steve >Tabor mite resistant queens but the feeling was that the areas they >were coming from deffinitly have mites. Not all areas of LI have >mites. Why invite trouble? Are Tabor's queens from Yugoslavian stock? Just curious. One of my colonies is Tabor; the other two are Buckfast. The Tabors are much more aggressive (they taught me to mind that last inch of zipper on the veil of my new Sherriff suit!) and built up a much larger population going into the winter. We'll see how they do this season. I should think that queens from mitey areas would be an advantage, assuming measures are taken to ensure that the mites themselves aren't shipped. Isn't that what the little plastic strips on the shipping cages are for? Anyone know what potential resistance traits might be? I've heard of grooming behavoir. I've also heard that Apis Cerana, who has an arrangement worked out with varroa, has different mandibular anatomy from Apis Mellifera. Can anyone elaborate? jimo@hebron.connected.com Camano Island, WA, USA 206-629-3813 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Feb 1994 09:32:00 +0100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Wilhelm Bos, Microbiologie" Subject: MS Dear Beelisters: After receiving some info from The American Apitherapy society conc. the treatment of Multiple Sclerosis patients with beestings, I plan to try this treatment out with a friend who suffers from M.S. for several years now. After reading about the beneficial effects of beepoison on other patients, we hope for at least a little improvement of her condition. Could anyone forward any info on the theme of curing M.S. with beepoison ? Please send your answer to Email adress below Hugo Veerkamp #################################################################### | BEENET INTERNATIONAL | | E-mail : | mail : the Bee bbs | | Hugo.Veerkamp@f28.n2801.z2.fidonet.org| P.O. BOX 51008 | | ( or press reply button) | 1007EA AMSTERDAM | | please send newsletters to: | The Netherlands | | BEE@HOTLINE.WLINK.NL | | | | | | Beenet : 240:31/0 | modem: +31 20 6764105 | | Fidonet: 2:2801/28 | voice: +31 20 6715663 | #################################################################### ============================================================ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Feb 1994 08:00:31 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Adam Finkelstein Subject: Whats an optimum queen? In-Reply-To: <199402211131.AA17065@Hopper.itc.Virginia.EDU> from "Dr WJ Muller" at Feb 21, 94 01:23:16 pm Dear nikite and anyone else on the listserve, nikite you respond: > Hi! > > > Queens made well locally always blow the doors off shipped queens, > > if the queen producer knows how to make queens. > > Sure its great to use good stock in a breeding program, but a > poorly made > blue -blood queen is never a match for a well fed, well > mated local queen. > The optimum queens are made well from good stock! > > How does one recognize an "optimum queen"? does one assume, from her > lineage (and selection programme) that she should be good, or is there > something one looks for in an emerging queen? what is the definition > of an "optimum queen"? > cheerio, > nikite The most accurate way to know if you have an optimum queen is to test her in a production year. If she and her sisters all perform well, then your line is good. Your question of selection in virgins is a good one: in correspondence with Brother Adam, he mentioned to me that he used to hatch 1000's of cells and select for morphological ideals, throwing out all but the best 1-2 %. I wanted to know what his selection was based on, but was unable to get any specifics. Assuming * anything* in selection is going to bias your picks and give you an erroneous conclusion. You may have ideas, as all breeders do, and often intuition plays out, but testing the queens in question is the only way to know how "optimum" they are. I wonder if anyone out there has a spreadsheet for queen performance evaluation? Adam -- =============================================================================== Adam Finkelstein VDACS Apiary Inspector 116 Reservoir St Harrisonburg VA 22801 703-433-1006 (V) 703-434-5607 (Fax) 703-564-4394 (Pager) adamf@hopper.itc.virginia.edu adamf@vtaix.cc.vt.edu |Bees To Please| ================================================================================ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Feb 1994 08:06:51 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Adam Finkelstein Subject: Re: queen breeding In-Reply-To: <199402211745.AA20864@Hopper.itc.Virginia.EDU> from "Dr MH Villet" at Feb 21, 94 07:43:43 pm Martin H. Villet writes: > Why not ask Bee-L? You will spark a hell of a debate. Act blonde. :) > > XX > -- > Martin H. Villet I assume "blond" is is a phenotype you immediately cull huh? Adam -- =============================================================================== Adam Finkelstein VDACS Apiary Inspector 116 Reservoir St Harrisonburg VA 22801 703-433-1006 (V) 703-434-5607 (Fax) 703-564-4394 (Pager) adamf@hopper.itc.virginia.edu adamf@vtaix.cc.vt.edu |Bees To Please| ================================================================================ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Feb 1994 08:14:41 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Steve Peck Subject: How do I leave the list? I've been trying to sign-off this group, but I can't. My address has changed and it won't recognize me as being a member of the list. I noticed that others have had this problem. When I try an leave the list it says to contact the administrator of the list. I'm not sure who this is, but if you are listening please sign me off. It may be a good idea to post who to contact if you want to leave the list and have had an address change. Thanks. Steve Peck ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Feb 1994 13:45:12 +0100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Bruzzi Giacomo Subject: MS >Dear Beelisters: > >After receiving some info from The American Apitherapy society conc. the >treatment of Multiple Sclerosis patients with beestings, I plan to try this >treatment out with a friend who suffers from M.S. for several years now. After >reading about the beneficial effects of beepoison on other patients, we hope >for at least a little improvement of her condition. Could anyone forward any >info on the theme of curing M.S. with beepoison ? Please send your answer to >Email adress below > > Hugo Veerkamp I'm interested too. GPaolo Vigone - Italy ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Feb 1994 09:01:20 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ray Lackey Subject: Re: Queen Importation Tabor's stock is selectively bred from existing USA stock. They are not from Yugoslavian stock. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ + Raymond J. Lackey + + Beekeeper 10 years with 25 colonies on Long Island, NY+ + INTERNET: rjl7317@hazeltine.com + + Mail: 1260 Walnut Avenue, Bohemia NY 11617 + + Home Phone: 516-567-1936 FAX: 516-262-8053 + ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Feb 1994 09:00:00 EST Reply-To: alufml@fnma.COM Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Francois-Michel Lang Subject: Re: i In-Reply-To: <9402211807.AAwefw22716@relay1.UU.NET> (message from uunet!UACSC2.ALBANY.EDU!IO71193%MAINE.bitnet on Mon, 21 Feb 1994 12:59:15 EST) Please remove me from this list. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------------ Francois-Michel Lang (202) 752-6067 FAX: (202) 752-5074 alufml@fnma.com ............. Fannie Mae; Asset/Liability Strategy lang@linc.cis.upenn.edu ..... Dept of Comp & Info Science, U of PA ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Feb 1994 08:38:57 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jerry J Bromenshenk Subject: Re: Queen Importation As per the notion that "mitey" queens might be desirable, if shipped with strips. The strips may reduce the mite population but it is expecting too much if you think these guarantee that the mites have been eradicated (chemicals suppress, rarely eradicate - at least not for very long, since the target organism may become resistant). Other factors such as application timing, length of time of exposure to the strips, condition (activity) of the strips, all contribute to the effectiveness of treatment. Also, Apistan targets varroa, not tracheal mites. Jerry jjbmail@selway.umt.edu ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Feb 1994 09:45:24 CST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Harlan Husmann Subject: Looking for a book My beekeeper father-in-law is looking for a book and cannot find it anywhere. All we know is the title of the book: City of the Bees Does anyone know where I could find a copy of this book, new or used? If you do, please send me mail or respond to this list. Thanks in advance for your help. -- Harlan E. Husmann harlan@cray.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Feb 1994 09:58:26 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Jim G. Shoemaker" Subject: Re: Looking for a book In-Reply-To: <9402221545.AA28886@ozarks.sgcl.lib.mo.us> The book "City of the Bees" is apparently available from BES-Wicwas Press. PO Box 817L, Cheshire, CT, 06410-0817. Phone (203) 250 7575. Jim Shoemaker jshoemak@ozarks.sgcl.lib.mo.us On Tue, 22 Feb 1994, Harlan Husmann wrote: > My beekeeper father-in-law is looking for a book and cannot find it > anywhere. All we know is the title of the book: > > City of the Bees > > Does anyone know where I could find a copy of this book, new or used? > If you do, please send me mail or respond to this list. Thanks in > advance for your help. > > -- > Harlan E. Husmann > > harlan@cray.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Feb 1994 08:06:01 PST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Adrian Wenner Subject: Re: Looking for a book >My beekeeper father-in-law is looking for a book and cannot find it >anywhere. All we know is the title of the book: > > City of the Bees > >Does anyone know where I could find a copy of this book, new or used? >If you do, please send me mail or respond to this list. Thanks in >advance for your help. > >-- >Harlan E. Husmann > >harlan@cray.com 1. Stuart, Frank S. City of the bees. New York, Whittlesey House [1949]. UCB BioSci QL568.A6 S8 1949 UCD Main Lib QL565 .S7 UCI Main Lib QL565 .S75 1949 UCSB Main Lib QL565 .S8 Sci-Eng UCSC Science QL565.S75 1949 UCSD Central QL565 .S929 1949 XX CAS Ent QL565 .S75 1949a CSL Main Lib 595.7 S929 General Coll The above are some libraries in California that have a copy of the book. Adrian *************************************************************** * Adrian Wenner E-Mail wenner@lifesci.lscf.ucsb.edu * * Department of Biology Office Phone (805) 893-2838 * * University of California Lab Phone (805) 893-2838 * * Santa Barbara, CA 93106 FAX (805) 893-4724 * *************************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Feb 1994 10:26:00 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Jim G. Shoemaker" Subject: Re: MS In-Reply-To: <9402221336.AA25210@ozarks.sgcl.lib.mo.us> Bee Friend: I don't have any information on MS but would appreciate Hugo's e-mail address if it is available. Thanks, Jim Shoemaker 5160 S. Western Brookline, MO USA 65619] jshoemak@ozarks.sgcl.lib.mo.us On Tue, 22 Feb 1994, Bruzzi Giacomo wrote: > >Dear Beelisters: > > > >After receiving some info from The American Apitherapy society conc. the > >treatment of Multiple Sclerosis patients with beestings, I plan to try this > >treatment out with a friend who suffers from M.S. for several years now. After > >reading about the beneficial effects of beepoison on other patients, we hope > >for at least a little improvement of her condition. Could anyone forward any > >info on the theme of curing M.S. with beepoison ? Please send your answer to > >Email adress below > > > > Hugo Veerkamp > > I'm interested too. > > GPaolo Vigone - Italy ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Feb 1994 13:26:43 AST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Blair Sampson Subject: Re: i Alison, You must know Frank Drummond. We met at The bee symposium in Utah, a few years back. We exchanged ideas about bee conservation and native bee management. I would very much like to discuss any ideas you might have about bee conservation or biology. Next week I'll be moving to Auburn, Alabama to do my Ph.D. I'll be studying the impact of prolonged UV exposure (ozone depletion and all that stuff) on plant- pollinator interactions. Good luck on your Ph.D. studies Best Wishes -Blair *..... *...*...... *.....*........ "BEEWARE OF BEE BIOLOGIST!" *.....*...... *...*.... __ * ______ __ __ * *oo* _ \_/ _ * \/ O_O \I/ =####= \\ //#####\\ \_/ \\ #### \\ -O_O- #### // -- -- lllll /// \\\\ ****************** //// \\\ * BEES * /// \\\ * BEWARE! * \\\ \\\ * MAD HUMAN * \\\ \\\ ****************** -// // ** ** ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ BLAIR SAMPSON Dept. of Biology Acadia University Wolfville, N.S. BOP 1XO, Canada 881305s@axe.acadiau.ca ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Feb 1994 12:29:36 -0400 Reply-To: Michelle Smith Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Michelle Smith Subject: Signing off Could someone please help me? I sent a message to signoff this conference but I was told that I sent it to the wrong place. Does anyone have the correct address? Thanks, Michelle ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Feb 1994 03:36:00 GMT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: ANDY NACHBAUR Subject: Bees with an attitute +-------------------------------+ ###From: Robert Rice ###Subject: Re: Bees with an attitute (was: gloves) -reply ###Date: Tue, 22 Feb 1994 09:16:11 +1100 ### ### Aggressive behaviour in bees is not only influenced by genetics ###there is a good deal of the environment envolved. We all know that ###the weather has alot to do with making the bees aggressive, what ###I have to come to realize over the years is it's often the floral ###source that the bees react to. For instance I use to dread +-------------------------------+ Hello Robert and gang, All of the above and more too. I believe that there is more then just the eco-systems of the plants that make bees aggressive, but for sure some plants like the blue curls of late summer and fall in California do influence on how the bees behave. The first thing I do when I want to look or work at bees is to light my smoker. My hat is the favorite ball cap so popular with many who work in the fields and now LA gang members. My doctor tells me as he lazers the cancers off my noise it would have been smarter to use a wide brim hat. My hard hat and veil is always in the truck ready if I need it. I seldom do here in central California. The beekeepers I have trained over the years have adopted my attitude towards clothing and made one variation, they mostly wear short sleeved T-shirts in the summer. I always wear long sleeve shirts, but do roll up the sleeves. There are several reason why we have adopted such an insane behaviour when in the bees. I did it because I have developed an eye for things going on within the bee hive, the veil interferes with my vision. The second reason was because it was costing me a big bundle supplying veils to farm worker who would only use them once and throw them away. I found if the average farm worker would see a bunch of crazy beekeepers working around bees without a veil they would not want to ware one. It worked, I have not been asked to supply veils for years and the farm workers still keep their distance from the hives. When they had veils they were always helping themselves to the honey. One advantage to not wearing a veil is that I am my own biological testing agent or target for aggressive behaviour in my bees. I will be the first one to know if they change. Several times I have been stung badly with coveralls, veil, gloves and smoker in hand. I define a bad stinging as one in which you believe that one more will be the one that kills you. Complete panic. It is an experience that one has to go through to understand about people who are sensitive to bee stings or just afraid. Because of close calls with family and short time employees I have great respect for aggressive bees and people who are sensitive. I kept bees for 5 seasons in the thorn bush deserts of south western Arizona on the Mexican boarder. There I learned late in life about 100% aggressive behaviour of bees and how little control a beekeeper really has over it. I have talked and visited with beekeepers who also operate in this large area that extends from Arizona to Texas and south into Mexico. By the end of the first season I was sure I had looked into the face of the devil himself, and not one time was I able to open any hive without a good smoker and hat and veil on. Coveralls and gloves, plus duct tape were the rule. With a 3 man crew working in yards of 50 +- hives even with lots of smoke and protective clothing the bees would fog your veil. These bees showed every symptom of being Afrikaner bees. I questioned the old beekeepers and was not surprised to hear that they did not think it was anything out of the ordinary and in fact always kept the worst junk yard dog hives close to the entrance to the bee yards to discourage thefts. The next year I started a requeening project, using Oliver Hill's and Kohnen stock from northern California that I had known from years of use were as gentle as they come. I did more then 500 hives, bull puckey, the bees did not change at all, except the drones got yellower. They would still sting your pockets shut if not controlled. The third season I shipped a semi load (480 hives) of bees that I had been able to work all spring in California without a hat, veil or much smoke; even through the almonds that towards the end the bees do get aggressive. The first time I went back to these yards they were as aggressive as the local stock. I did learn how to work these bees after five seasons with out special clothing, but never once in 5 years was I able to sneak into a yard alone and slip off a top, and ease out a frame for inspection like I have done most every day of the year here, without a good smoker. I also could keep up with the younger guys by starting them on the opposite side of the truck and getting to work on my side with out coveralls or veil. By the time they got dressed up I would be a forth down the row and relative safe until they got close to me, then I would have to stop and put on my own veil, if they had not hid it under the seat of the truck or out in the brush with a rattle snake in it. I do not believe that these bees were aggressive because of any bad genes. I do not believe they were aggressive because of start and stop flows, as one year we never did finish extracting until Christmas and made a crop of 200+ lbs per hive double the normal, much of it off the Yellow Eye of northern Mexico that only comes once or twice in a life time. I believe that this bad behaviour of bees is normal for the great thorn bush deserts of the SW and much of northern Mexico and could easily be mis-identified as a genetic disorder. Lucky enough most of the bee yards are away from the well traveled black top roads and are not easy to find if you are not looking for them so NO problems have ever been reported from humans or stock being injured. I am sure that with little provocation these bees would eat the paint and hinges off a barn door to get at you. The one thing I did not do is return any of this stock to California to see if it would continue to be aggressive, I don't think it would, but will never know for sure. ttul Andy- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Feb 1994 09:58:30 CST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Janko Bozic Subject: Export-Import and Carniolan Bee Dear Bee-L subscribers, There is going so much discussion about importing of bees in USA, temperate bees and lately again about Yugoslavian bees. Everything is related, somehow, with Carniolan bee. NAME OF CARNIOLAN BEE Last year I asked in an audience of American beekeepers if they know the origin of name of Carniolan bee. I didn't get the answer. Perhaps someone knew. Anyway, I will describe that for Bee-L subscribers. The name originates from Latin word CARNIOLA, which is the name of county. This county is a part of SLOVENIA. The Latin name of Carniolan bee (carnica) originates in the name of part of Alps, which is not a part of county Carniola. This part of Alps is in Austria and partially in Italy. Why in English speaking world beekeepers call that bee Carniolan bee? I suppose the basic reason is in EXPORT of CARNIOLAN BEE in USA, Australia and New Zealand from Carniolan county 100 years ago. In the 19th century Carniola was a part of Austria. Slovenian beekeepers were very proud of their own stock of bees. They were very careful to rear gentle bees. Selection was at that time very successful. They had several breeding centers in Alpic valleys. Export of bees started in 19th century lasted to the middle of that century. Slovenian beekeepers marked those exporting hives with labels with the name CARNIOLAN BEES. That was at that time kind of trade mark. Exporters had also strong connections with American beekeepers. It is not completely clear how they contributed to the export and to the name of Carniolan bee. I can remember the names of two exporters, first was Jan Strgar from Bohinjska Bistrica and the second was Michael Ambrozic from Mojstrana. I'd like to get some more information about importation of Carniolan bees in USA, Australia and New Zealand in 19th century and at the beginning of that century. If anyone have some information about that, please send me direct on my e-mail address or by regular mail. CURRENT BREEDING PROJECTS IN SLOVENIA Few years ago Slovenian beekeeping society reestablished organized queen breeding. Research work is done by Agricultural institute. Dr. Janez Pokljukar works on that projects. In the projects are involved several 10's of queen breeders. Several 10,000 of queens are produced each year. We hope there will be some chance to export queens at list in other countries of Europe if not somewhere else in the world. PERSONAL EXPERIENCE WITH CARNIOLAN BEES I kept bees in Slovenia for 12 years. Of course I worked with Carniolan bee. There is no other race in continental part of Slovenia. They are really gentle bees. There is a big difference with bees in Louisiana. Also Hear I do not use gloves, but I get much more stings than in Slovenia. May be, something contribute to that also different technology. In Slovenia we keep bees in bee-houses, and hives are operated from the back. In the bee-house, at the back of the hives, is a shadow, no wind, and you can also sit on a char and work with the bees. Don't forget, if you have some information about import of Carniolan bee hundred years ago, please, send me. With regards, Janko ======================================================= Janko Bozic OFFICE: Department of Zoology & Physiology Louisiana State University _ _________ Baton Rouge, LA 70803 /_\_____/_ tel. 504 388 1769 //* \O O/ *\ fax. 504 388 1763 / *** \O/ *** / ** / \ ** HOME: / * _._ * 1222 Jim Taylor No.9 \.../ Baton Rouge LA 70820 \I/ tel. 504 767 4681 l BITNNET: ZOBOZI@LSUVM INTERNET: ZOBOZI@LSUVM.SNCC.LSU.EDU ======================================================= ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Feb 1994 19:45:00 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: S Begolly Subject: newsgroup please remove my name from this list, many thanks ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Feb 1994 20:22:00 CST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: P30LEK1@NIU.BITNET Subject: Re: Queen Importation Ray- I ordered two queens from Kona. One of them "disappeared" quickly and was replaced domestically. The other, though, went on to produce a have that returned a great surplus. I liked the latter, and until I read your meassage, I thought the casualty was a problem with introducing the new queen. I was lured to the Kona queens because I hoped to ensure a mite free queen. I still like that idea. Larry Krengel Marengo, IL USA ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Feb 1994 20:35:50 -0800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: John Robert Bidleman Subject: Re: Looking for a book In-Reply-To: <199402221552.AA11713@crl.crl.com> i] On Tue, 22 Feb 1994, Harlan Husmann wrote: > My beekeeper father-in-law is looking for a book and cannot find it > anywhere. All we know is the title of the book: > City of the Bees > harlan@cray.com An incredible book...I may have it still. If so I will reply within a few days, if not I may be loking for it myself. I'd love to read it again. robbee@crl.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Feb 1994 17:15:18 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Mike Vincent Subject: Used Equipment Was hoping to get some feedback in regard to used equipment. My local bee supplier slammed it BUT I feel he may have somewhat of a vested interest. The situation is that a local semi-commercial beekeeper has retired and essentially given me his equipment.(40 plus complete hives,supers excluders etc.) My biggest concern is of course AFB. My current plans are to treat with terramyacin both spring and fall all my bees not just ones installed in these hives(some of which have been in storage for 20 + years) seeya Matchstic@aol.com Mike Vincent ps also looking for beekeeping groups around the conutry to exchange newsletters with. Im the editor for my local newsletter and would be happy to swap subscriptions! ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Feb 1994 11:03:08 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: David Taylor RMIT Bundoora Subject: Accidental Beekeeper Hello Folks, I've been following this list for some time but till recently did not have bees of my own. Strangely, the bees found me, not vise-versa. I live in a rural area 70km North East of Melbourne. A friend recently bought a house in the district and found 5 eight-frame hives that the previous owner had neglected and allowed to die out. He offered me the hives, which I took home, knocked the loose dirt and dead bees out and stacked under a verandah until I had more time. The frames were in poor condition, some having been attacked by wax moth etc. After a few days I noticed bees were exploring the hives - I thought just to dig out wax or remaining honey. But they kept this up for 12 days or so. Then, late one afternoon I saw a black cloud 20 metres across near the verandah. I got closer as the cloud condensed into a stream of vibrating black molasses which flowed up hill into one of the hives. I was absolutely amazed! Not having any protective clothing, I contacted a nearby beekeeper who came up the next weekend to see what had happened. It seems the bees had chosen the dirtiest hive with the roughest frames and had started to build combs between two frames which had no foundation. We transferred the colony into a clean hive with the best frames from the other boxes. Three weeks later he came back to check that the queen was laying - we found brood in neat patterns on two of the combs. I've been moving the hive .5 - 1 metre a day to get it away from the house and can vouch that the weight is increasing as stores are brought in. It looks like the bees are working clover and other ground flowers. Our district has cleared grazing land with large areas of tall eucalypt forrests which haven't bloomed so far. Next weekend we're attending a beekeeper's field day, where I hope to obtain some of the necessary equipment, as well as information and advice. Regards... David david@rmit.edu.au Kinglake, near Melbourne, Australia ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Feb 1994 20:27:52 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "La Reine de la Cite' des Phoques (Liz Day)" Subject: Re: Accidental Beekeeper Neat! Liz Day University of Illinois at Chicago day@eecs.uic.edu ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Feb 1994 20:27:48 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Jim G. Shoemaker" Subject: Re: Accidental Beekeeper In-Reply-To: <9402240002.AA22225@ozarks.sgcl.lib.mo.us> Hello Beekeeper Taylor: I enjoyed your account of your entry into beekeeping. I also entered beekeeping somewhat by accident. That was almost twenty years ago and I find beekeeping to be one of the most enjoyable activities I have tried. Second only to fishing. I live in southwest Missouri USA, retired six years ago from public education and use my time in gardening, fishing, and taking care of about thirty hives. I have conducted a number of beekeeping classes and really enjoy helping new/young beekeepers. Keep us (on the net) posted as to how your project progresses. Jim Shoemaker 5160 S. Western Brookline, MO 65619 jshoemak@ozarks.sgcl.lib.mo.us ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Feb 1994 20:39:00 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "La Reine de la Cite' des Phoques (Liz Day)" Subject: for Dr. Barry Donovan Help, have you changed email addresses? Mail to your previous address has bounced 3 times ... Liz day day@eecs.uic.edu ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Feb 1994 16:27:38 NZST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Barry Donovan Subject: for Dr. Barry Donovan -Reply Hello Liz. As far as I am aware my address hasn't changed. Lots of messages are coming in on this conference from all over the world. Try me at DonovanB@lincoln.cri.nz Hope to hear from you soon. Regards, Barry. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Feb 1994 20:02:41 -0800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: James Conklin Subject: Re: Accidental Beekeeper Great story. My first hive was given me by my high school sweetheart's father, John McDonald, an entomologist with the Navy (at the time). I think he was trying to distract me. It worked, to a degree. Now ten years later my own father is starting his first hive. He told me he was always really excited to see me out there in the bees (bumbling gamely along). He's waiting for Spring to get his bees and says he can't leave the hive alone, even though it's ready to go. I'm proud of him. Incidentally, Dr. McDonald relocated to Arizona. I still have his copy of _The Hive and the Honey Bee_, which I'd like to return. If anyone knows of him, an address would be appreciated. Good luck with your new charges. -James --- James Conklin jconklin@galileo.stmarys-ca.edu Behavior Analysts, Inc. Prefered: jwc@netcom.com Strategic Teaching And Reinforcement Systems "Opinions expressed are not necessarily those of my employers." ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Feb 1994 23:07:59 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jean-Pierre Chapleau <73642.244@COMPUSERVE.COM> Subject: SUGAR SYRUP FOR BOMBUS >Date: Mon, 21 Feb 1994 12:17:44 +0000 >From: POPPY >Subject: Re: northern extent of AHB > >Dear beeliners, > This has nothing to with AHB but i wanted to quickly use the reply >command to send a message. > I wish to obtain some industrila corn syrup for feeding to bees. Can >anyone give me the compositions normally offered by companies. I wish to >feed the syrup to bumblebees in it's neat state - preferably approx 70% sugars >without dilution to cut down work and reduce fermentation problems. Has anyone >got any ideas about the simplest way of producing/obtaining syrups which do not > ferment and require minimal effort. I would appreciate any addresses which are >in the UK if at all possible. >Guy Poppy >Dept Entomology/Nematology >Rothamsted Experimental Station >Harpenden >Herts AL5 1BA Guy I suggest you address your question directly to Mr. Chris Plowright from Canada (PLOWRIGHT@CSI.UOTTAWA.CA). He is a bombus specialist at the Ottawa University. He has an extensive practical knowledge of their culture. I just read that there is a BOMBUS conference list on the Internet. You may be interested to subscribe: BOMBUS@CSI.UOTTAWA.CA. I hope this information is helpful to you Jean-Pierre Chapleau Quebec province Canada ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Feb 1994 07:54:42 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Gary S. Reuter" Subject: gloves GLOVES DON'T KILL BEES BEEKEEPERS KILL BEES ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Feb 1994 13:58:16 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: William G Lord Subject: Location effect on Trachael Mites -- William G Lord E-Mail : wglord@franklin Internet: wglord@franklin.ces.ncsu.edu Phone : ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Feb 1994 14:31:42 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "David F. Verville" Organization: AT&T Subject: Slatted Racks I have seen advertised in supply catalogs a piece of equipment called a slatted rack. The outside dimensions are the same as the hive body, about 2 inches high and has a wide (4-5") board across the front inside followed by about 10 or so .75" slats equally spaced to fill out the rest of the area. It says it's to prevent swarming. I really don't understand how. Does anyone out there know? How does it go on the hive? Does the wide board go towards the front? What about the extra space it creates, won't the bees build comb on the bottom of the frames? Is the extra space given to the bottom board or to the hive body? David Verville Another Bee Home Provider. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Feb 1994 17:28:02 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jane Power Subject: Re: Slatted Racks Perhaps it is because they are too confused to leave home! Seriously, it sounds like a device to increase air circulation in the hive, not unlike a wind tunnel or hallway. The bees may very well fill it with honey--oh darn comb honey to eeat ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Feb 1994 14:45:26 PST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jane Beckman Subject: Re: Slatted Racks It sounds like some sort of variant on an excluder, and might have some parts you might not see in the catalog illustration. (My first thought was it sounded like a propolis collector,but then I read more closely and thought "Hmm, sounds like there may be features not apparent." I'd guess you use it as the first unit on the bottom board, between it and the hive body. I've never seen one of these, though. --Jane Beckman [jane@swdc.stratus.com]) ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Feb 1994 18:14:06 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Mike Vincent Subject: Re: Location effect on T... I appreciate the help folks. Most seem to be in agreement that use of the extender patties is a definate idea(btw has terramyacin been "offically" approved for use in patties?) But a coupla of the other suggestions Like call the local inspector apparently Ga has an incredibly weak inspection program in my area i.e. its optional and even then takes a while to get response. And the gentleman that I got the equipment was a somewhat uneducated individual and didnt "hold" with inspectors But by the same token he didnt know how to deal with the Wax moth either SO no old infected comb to deal with (just reinforcment wire) thanks again mike ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Feb 1994 15:36:14 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Malcolm (Tom) Sanford, Florida Extension Apiculturist" Subject: Beekeeping Congress in Latin America From: IN%"genebee@sol.fmrp.usp.br" 22-FEB-1994 09:29:23.18 To: IN%"mts@gnv.ifas.ufl.edu" CC: Subj: Prof. David Return-path: Return-path: genebee@sol.fmrp.usp.br Received: from bee08.uspnet.usp.br by gnv.ifas.ufl.edu (PMDF V4.2-11 #3240) id <01H96JDBQKTC920M0E@gnv.ifas.ufl.edu>; Tue, 22 Feb 1994 09:29:20 EST Received: from fox.cce.usp.br (fox.cce.usp.br [143.107.70.1]) by bee08.uspnet.usp.br (8.6.4/RISC-CCE2.0) id LAA23506 Received: from sol.fmrp.usp.br (sol.fmrp.usp.br [143.107.17.5]) by fox.cce.usp.br (8.6.4/CONVEX120-CCE2.0) id MAA16523 Received: by sol.fmrp.usp.br (INTERPRO-220/5.61/FMRP-1.0) id AA00700 Date: Tue, 22 Feb 1994 12:30:48 -0600 From: genebee@sol.fmrp.usp.br (Genetica-Abelhas FMRP_USP) Subject: Prof. David To: mts@gnv.ifas.ufl.edu Message-id: <9402221830.AA00700@sol.fmrp.usp.br> Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Posted-Date: Tue, 22 Feb 94 12:30:48 -0600 Received-Date: Tue, 22 Feb 94 12:30:48 -0600 Tom Sanford: There will be an international beekeeping Congress in Argentina that might be of interest to some of your readers and to beeline participants. It is: the IV Congreso Iberolatinoamericano de Apicultura & I Foro Expo-Comercial Internacional de Apicultura May 12 - 15, 1994 Rio Cuarto, Provincia de Cordoba, ARGENTINA General Information available from Fundacion Banco de la Provincia de Cordoba-Buenos Aires 101 Telefax 00-54-51-222669 5000 Cordoba or Daniel Ulla Tel. 00 54 586 34436 For the Commercial exhibitors: Sociedade Rural de Rio Cuarto Av. Sabatini 3001 Rio Cuarto, Cordoba Argentina Tel. 00 54 586 40757 Fax 00-54-586-46691 The registration fee is: $60 till March 15 and $80 after this date. Accompanying persons $60 Registration includes: Participation in the two events, Proceedings Closing Dinner and Folklore show. For those who wish to submit papers: Abstracts can be sent via fax, and should arrive by March 15. These should not exceed 25 lines with 60 characters each. The complete papers are also due March 15 and should not exceed four pages - 8,000 characters. A copy should also be sent via airmail. Participants will come from all of the South American countries and much of Central America, as well as Spain and Portugal. The main areas that will be discussed will be the South American Common Market and Biology, Beekeeping Technology, Bee Pathology, Bee Flora and Pollination and Apitherapy and Colony Products Dr. Kerr will give one of the keynote talks Other speakers will come from institutions in Brazil, Uruguay, Cuba, Argentina, etc. This will be a good chance to see what beekeeping is like in Argentina and to meet many of the important beekeepers and bee researchers in Latin America. Remember that Argentina has climates similar to the U.S.A. and has gone through the africanization process that has started in the U.S.A. The official languages of the Congress will be Spanish and Portuguese, though many of the scientists and students speak English. I can answer some questions via E-mail if anyone needs some more info. David De Jong ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Tom Sanford Extension Apiculturist University of Florida Mailing Address: Bldg 970, Hull Rd., Gainesville, FL 32611-0620 Voice phone 904/392-1801, Ext. 143 FAX 904/392-0190 INTERNET: MTS@GNV.IFAS.UFL.EDU BITNET: MTS@IFASGNV +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 26 Feb 1994 14:30:00 +1300 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: NICKW@WAIKATO.AC.NZ Subject: Slatted racks... I've never seen or used the 'traditional' design of this device, but have used a variant. I'm familiar with their design and principle. They were, from memory, espoused primarily by Eugene and Carl Killion, and were particularly popular in the 8 frame hives used for comb honey. The bkprs wanted to 'compress' the bees, crowding them so they would effectively work section comb boxes well, but at the same time needed to reduce the consequent swarming impulse. These racks are made to fit inside a specially made (deep) floor. That is, the risers (who knows a GOOD word for that part of the floorboard???) are about 50mm (2 in) deep. If you just put the deep floor on, the bees would build all sorts of propolis and wax mountains up to and down from the frames. But if you put this slatted rack in, the hive gets the advantage of the space in the deep floor and won't build wax/propolis on the bottom bars. The theory is that the slatted rack reduces a lot of the air movement in and out of the entrance. The bees are then supposed to be willing to use ALL of the bottom box, down to the corners of the frames, rather than keeping the brood 'circle' away from the (draughty) entrance. Here in NZ the variation used is to use a normal floor, but nail a piece of galvanised iron about 100-150mm (4 to 6 inches) wide across the width of the floor, so that the bees come in the entrace and crawl through this 'tunnel' before going *up* into the hive. Is that word description clear? Here we do it more as a wasp damage reducer. Wasps (Vespula germanica and Vespula vulgaris) tend to go into a hive at the edges of the entrance, then up into the outside combs that aren't defended as well. By making them crawl through a tunnel type entrance, they are more likely to have to come up into the hive through part of the bee cluster. The idea, then, is that the bees, especially when the weather is a bit cooler, are better able to defend the hive. But again, and this from experience, the bees WILL put brood right down to the front corners of the frames, giving better utilisation and reducing that 'dead' greyish brown comb that results from bees avoiding/chewing out the corners of the comb. ------------------------------------- Nick Wallingford Bay of Plenty Polytechnic (East coast, N Island, New Zealand) Internet nickw@waikato.ac.nz ------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Feb 1994 23:44:00 GMT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: ANDY NACHBAUR Subject: Steve Taber's YUGO Stock +-------------------------------+ ###From: Ray Lackey ###Subject: Re: Queen Importation ###Date: Tue, 22 Feb 1994 09:01:20 -0500 ### ###Tabor's stock is selectively bred from existing USA stock. They ###are not from Yugoslavian stock. +-------------------------------+ Hi Ray! According to a flyer I received from Taber's Honey Bee Genetics they are selling "Pure "YUGO" Carniolans" for ARS Y-C-1 Stock. They make clams that these queens will produce hives that "should not require treatment". The price for this stock is a $2. premium over their regular stock. Field Testing of STRANGE or YUGO Stocks.... As one who has for three or four years informally tested 1st crosses and their daughters of stock from Yugoslavia (NO connection to Taber's) and other places I wish that I could report some big difference that anyone could see or benefit from. No can do. This does not mean that these bees are not valuable sources of genetic variability that has been the reason bees have survived all these years to spite the good loving care we give them. Over the years I have found the Carniolan bees to be very well suited for conditions here and the one's that survive make as good a hive as the Italians for early bees, brood, for increase or what ever. The Carniolan bees can be a little aggressive and I was told years ago that there were two strains imported into Canada and one was a fire breather and the other gentile as Caucs. As for the Yugo daughters and their daughters, daughters I lost track of my own. I will have to ask the two local breeders if they continue the line or let it slip. I do know that it was continue with at least one black and maybe one yellow the second season. Oh, yeh, I forgot to say these Carniolan lines I have played with do come in yellows. ttul. __ __ / \ \^+^/ / \ Andy Nachbaur \ \(O O)/ / Wild Bee's BBS \ \\_// //-->> BEENET.COM -----------------oOO--Y--OOo------------------------------------ ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 26 Feb 1994 10:21:17 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jerry J Bromenshenk Subject: Re: Slatted Racks In the Puget Sound region on the West Coast of Washington, many of the hobbiest beekeepers use these boards. I have never seen them used in MT, Idaho, Wyoming, or eastern WA. These beekeepers also often paint their hives dark colors. They argue that the cool, rainy weather, intermixed with sunny days tends build up humidity and condensation in the hive, especially in the spring. They also report, and I have seen, water running out of the hive and dripping off the front edge of the bottom board - even when there has not been any rain. The dark colors are supposed to increase the internal hive temperature - the old black box theory. The slatted bottom board presumably increases ventilation and gets the brood chamber up off the wet bottom board. I have noticed that incomiing bees often avoid the wet floor, going right to the slats. All of this is supposed to reduce chalk brood, other fungal problems, etc. My impression is that there is some validity to this. If nothing else, you probably get better air-flow across the bottom board which should help dry it out. Bees in boxes with slatted bottom inserts seem look a bit better. James Bach, WA Dept. of Agriculture has inspected thousands of hives in WA. He would be a good source of information concerning whether this really works. Jerry Bromenshenk The University of MT jjbmail@selway.umt.edu ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 26 Feb 1994 12:49:55 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Mike Vincent Subject: Get Bee-L Log9304 get Bee-l Log9304 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 26 Feb 1994 11:51:02 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Gary S. Reuter" Subject: Mean Bees In most cases mean bees are from a genetic trait and can be corrected by requeening. Remember not to expect immediate results because it takes at least six weeks for the new queen's daughters to make up the largest percentage of the colony. If a colony was fine but became mean look for the possibility of a failing queen. This of course can be corrected by requeening. If a colony became mean very fast look for other things that may be upsetting them. A tree branch rubbing on the hive, skunks, tall grass or weeds in front of the hive, bumblebee or mouse nest under the bottom board. Sometimes its not you they are mad at but you are just the last straw. I had a colony in a yard that was mean. I was moving to another yard and was going to requeen it there. A week after moving it I went to requeen it and it was as nice as can bee. I did not rqueen it and it was fine for the rest of the season. Go figure. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 26 Feb 1994 23:19:28 CST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: ZHIYONG@UIUCVMD.BITNET Subject: Roomate wanted for UISSI in Paris, August'94 Dear all, I am planning to go to Paris for that social insect meeting (International Union for the Study of Social Insects) August 21-27. Due to the high cost of Paris, I would like to room with somebody if any of you is also going. Those of you who knows me especially welcome. Need to make travel arrangements early to save $$. Since this will be mutualistic, act now to contact me! Thanks. ********************************************************************** * Zhi-yong HUANG {Having a hard time? Think of the poor drone !} * * 320 Morrill Hall PHONE: 217-333-6843 * * Dept. of Entomology FAX: 217-244-3499 * * University of Illinois EMAIL: Zhiyong@vmd.cso.uiuc.edu * * URBANA, IL 61801 Z-HUANG@UIUC.EDU * ********************************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 27 Feb 1994 00:48:24 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Mike Vincent Subject: Get BEE-L LOG9304 get BEE-L LOG9304 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 26 Feb 1994 00:31:45 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Michael Moroney Subject: Re: Location effect on T... In-Reply-To: <199402252315.AA11057@world.std.com> > Most seem to be in agreement that use of the extender patties is a definate > idea(btw has terramyacin been "offically" approved for use in patties?) I don't know about "officially", but the latest Dadant catalog lists the following recipe: 1 6.4 oz Terramycin 4.6 lbs vegetable shortening (Crisco) 9.12 lbs powdered sugar Mix thoroughly. Makes 14 1lb patties (1 per colony) -Mike ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 27 Feb 1994 02:20:58 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Dadi Rusendi (sementara)" Subject: Request for detector Dear Bee-l netters: Does anybody know about a beehive-detector? My point is by using this detector I can easily find the beehive without following the bees. Is this instrument really existing? My second question is: What/how is the best and practical way to know that the honey is pure? These questions were asked by bee-farmers in my country, a developing country, so I need the practical and simple answered. I am a newcomer in this group, I am sorry if my questions are inconvenient in this group and bother you. Your help would be greatly apprecciated. Thanks in advance. Cordially, Dadi ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 27 Feb 1994 10:18:16 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Dave D. Cawley, a De Leon Socialist" Subject: Re: Request for detector > From: "Dadi Rusendi (sementara)" > These questions were asked by bee-farmers in my country, > a developing country, so I need the practical and simple > answered. I think I know about 27 million people who don't think Canada is a developing country...8-} ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Dave D. Cawley | University Of Scranton | This message brought to you by BUN AND RUN, ddc1@jaguar.uofs.edu | where we make burgers much more fun. ddc1@SCRANTON | ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 27 Feb 1994 15:49:48 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jerry J Bromenshenk Subject: Re: Location effect on T... Dr. Bill Wilson pioneered the use of these patties. Application for approval for use in the U.S. by USDA was first requested in 1973. In 1978 the application was still pending. According The Hive and the Honey Bee, 1992, use has been sanctioned by the FDA; however no label has been approved. Mann Lake Supply in Minnesota now makes up TM patties and TM extender in bulk and markets it. As to the request about locating bee hives. I am sure any number of List members can describe the long established trick of catching, releasing, and triangulating on forager bee flight directions. However, Howard Kerr, Oak Ridge National Labs, used a shotgun microphone to locate feral colonies in wooded areas. Best Regards Jerry Bromenshenk jjbmail@selway.umt.edu ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Feb 1994 13:18:44 NZST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Barry Donovan Subject: Re: Location effect on T... -Reply Jerry, is there any further information on the use of a shotgun microphone by Howard Kerr to locate wild bee colonies in wooded areas? Is it a practical method of locating colonies? Thanks. Barry J Donovan, Canterbury Agriculture and Science Centre, Lincoln, New Zealand. DonovanB@Lincoln.cri.nz ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 27 Feb 1994 22:02:03 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Eric Smith Subject: Feeding Bees Pollen Substitutes Bee Listers, I am looking for information about acquiring and applying pollen substitute. I've never fed the ladies pollen before and would appreciate any advice on the subject. Does anyone have a pollen substitute recipe they would like to share? Thanks, -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Eric Smith (eric@curly.red-cross.org) I does not matter how much money American Red Cross you have - it's never enough! The opinions and spelling mistakes are my own..... -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 27 Feb 1994 22:10:36 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Eric Smith Subject: USA Bee equiptment suppliers Bee Listers, I am gearing up for spring and am looking for some mail order companies to get some equipment from (USA only). Can you send me the company name, phone number, your impression of the service and the quality of the items purchased? I will summarize if there is interest. Thanks in advance -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Eric Smith (eric@curly.red-cross.org) I does not matter how much money American Red Cross you have - it's never enough! The opinions and spelling mistakes are my own..... -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 27 Feb 1994 22:02:27 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Jim G. Shoemaker" Subject: Re: Feeding Bees Pollen Substitutes In-Reply-To: <9402280307.AA23530@ozarks.sgcl.lib.mo.us> Hello Eric: I'm not much of a cook so I have usually used a ready-made substitute from Kelley Bee Supply. Don't know how good it is but the bees seem to like it. Try it. Jim Shoemaker 5160 S. Western Brookline, MO 65619 jshoemak@ozarks.sgcl.lib.mo.us ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 27 Feb 1994 22:44:05 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Jim G. Shoemaker" Subject: Re: USA Bee equiptment suppliers In-Reply-To: <9402280315.AA23972@ozarks.sgcl.lib.mo.us> Eric: I have been ordering bee supplies for about twenty years and from several companies. I have never had any bad experiences, however, for small orders I like Kelley Suppply Company, 3107 Elizabethtown Road, Clarkson, KY 42726-0240 AC (502) 242 2012. I have had good experience with larger orders from Western Bee Supply in Polson MT. Suggest you closely check truck, UPS and postal rates as cheaper prices from distant places can be misleading. How Many bees do you have and where are you located? Jim Shoemaker jshoemak@ozarks.sgcl.lib.mo.us ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Feb 1994 08:55:30 -0200 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Zigurds Vaivods Subject: Re: Definition of beekeeping !? Excuse my late reaction but there are my subjective look on beekeeping in Latvia. There are approximately 150,000 bee colonies in Latvia. This makes 2.3 colony per km2 and 1 colony per 17 inhabitants. Local wild bee (Apis mellifera mellifer a L.) population is practically disappeared. Latvian beekeepers have no favorite bee races, it is possible to find in this country all the European bee races. I prefer Apis mellifera carpatica. These bees have non aggressive colonies and queens can be easily introduced. The main trouble for bee colonies is varroa jacobsoni (possible intensified by o ur climate). Apistan seems to be effective and easy to use treatment. Recently government organized bee disease treatment is at development stage. The territory of Latvia belongs to temperate climate mixed forest zone with high level of precipitation. Average temperatures: in January -5 C, in July +17 C. Often there are quick temperature changes making a trouble to beekeepers. Dadan-Blatt type hives with supers and optional thermo insulation are mostly used in Latvian beekeeping. Thermo insulation allows to change thermo- technical parameter of hive from 0.05 to 1 degree per watt. During summer and autumn these hives satisfy bee needs, but during winter and spring - no. There are two beekeeper teams in Latvia: the first winters bees in hives with addition al thermo insulation, but the second - without. The first team is winner in cool winter, the second - in warm, but both have colonies alive. Honey yield is about 4-14 kg from colony, but beekeepers exploits bees to get not only honey but also pollen, royal jelly, propolis and bee venom. There are developed a simple equipment and technology to get bee venom. This technology can be acquired during one day. The real average venom gain is 4+- 1 g per colony. There are problems with venom realization and during last season venom producing is collapsed. A small beekeeper group caries out a research on bee wintering. As surprise for us we find out that bee fall during winter (91-93, 1oct-1apr) are strictly linea r. The higher fall mainly is caused by diseases (varroa mites). The reasons for smaller fall has no explanation. The controlled hive heating during cold periods of wint er gives no noticeable gain. Almars Berzonis ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Feb 1994 08:44:10 EST Reply-To: alufml@fnma.COM Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Francois-Michel Lang Subject: Re: USA Bee equiptment suppliers In-Reply-To: <9402280453.AAwfdr01270@relay1.UU.NET> (uunet!OZARKS.SGCL.LIB.MO.US!jshoemak) Please remove me from this list. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------------ Francois-Michel Lang (202) 752-6067 FAX: (202) 752-5074 alufml@fnma.com ............. Fannie Mae; Asset/Liability Strategy lang@linc.cis.upenn.edu ..... Dept of Comp & Info Science, U of PA ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Feb 1994 07:07:58 PST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Adrian Wenner Subject: Re: Request for detector >Dear Bee-l netters: >Does anybody know about a beehive-detector? >My point is by using this detector I can easily find >the beehive without following the bees. Is this instrument >really existing? > Dadi Dear Dadi, Some of us recently published a paper that reviews and outlines all methods for locating bee colonies: Wenner, A.M., J.E. Alcock, and D.E. Meade. 1992. Efficient hunting of feral colonies. Bee Science. 2(2):64-70. If you provide me a mailing address, I can send you a copy. (By the way, it is a good idea to place your address, etc., on each e-mail message you send -- it avoids confusion. Best wishes. Adrian *************************************************************** * Adrian Wenner E-Mail wenner@lifesci.lscf.ucsb.edu * * Department of Biology Office Phone (805) 893-2838 * * University of California Lab Phone (805) 893-2838 * * Santa Barbara, CA 93106 FAX (805) 893-4724 * *************************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Feb 1994 08:09:09 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jerry J Bromenshenk Subject: Re: Location effect on T... -Reply On Mon, 28 Feb 1994, Barry Donovan wrote: > Jerry, is there any further information on the use of a shotgun > microphone by Howard Kerr to locate wild bee colonies in wooded > areas? Is it a practical method of locating colonies? > Thanks. I will call Howard and ask. He likes the electronic stuff. He developed a little gadget with a tube attached to a little wand. The wand had little neon lights. His idea was that the wing beat frequency of Africanzied Bees would be Different than than of European Bees due to differences in body size. In theory, each would have a signature wing beat frequency. So ---- you catch a bee, stick it in the gizmo, and watch to see if you get a green, yellow, or red light. The frequency/body size or shape part may hold up, but bee size is affected by size of cells, nutrition, etc. As per the shotgun microphone, I will ask Howard to send a message to the list. Jerry Bromenshenk jjbmail@selway.umt.edu > > Barry J Donovan, > Canterbury Agriculture and Science Centre, > Lincoln, > New Zealand. > DonovanB@Lincoln.cri.nz > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Feb 1994 07:31:40 PST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Adrian Wenner Subject: Re: Location effect on T... -Reply >On Mon, 28 Feb 1994, Barry Donovan wrote: > >> Jerry, is there any further information on the use of a shotgun >> microphone by Howard Kerr to locate wild bee colonies in wooded >> areas? Is it a practical method of locating colonies? >> Thanks. Barry and Jerry, A couple of years ago I tried out a parabolic reflector and centrally emplaced microphone, a rig that I had successfully used for recording insect sounds in the field several years ago. I had hoped to actually locate some of the "aerial pathways" of foragers as they flew between their colonies and point source flower patches, as well as to hear the ventilator sounds from the colonies themselves. This device was very sensitive -- one could hear spoken conversations from a quarter mile away in good conditions. The device didn't work. First of all, one has to aim exactly at the source of sound, something quite difficult to do if one does not know where that sound is precisely coming from. Secondly, line of sight is almost essential to detect the sound of a colony, and vegetation, etc. muffle sounds Finally, colonies are usually located in quite out-of-the-way places (see our abstracts in the last December issue of the American Bee Journal (p. 870). A better possibility may be use of a device invented by Hayward Spangler at the USDA bee research laboratory in Tucson. He has a "gun" that is aimed at moving objects that have some frequency of movement component. The gun converts visible signals from the object to sound. He even records the sounds of dancing bees from through the glass sides of observation hives. The bee hunting techniques provided in the reference I sent a few moments ago can be very efficient with practice and perception. Adrian *************************************************************** * Adrian Wenner E-Mail wenner@lifesci.lscf.ucsb.edu * * Department of Biology Office Phone (805) 893-2838 * * University of California Lab Phone (805) 893-2838 * * Santa Barbara, CA 93106 FAX (805) 893-4724 * *************************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Feb 1994 10:39:38 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jack Turner Subject: Re: gloves In-Reply-To: <9402241355.AA02642@rvgs.vak12ed.edu>; from "Gary S. Reuter" at Feb 24, 94 7:54 am According to Gary S. Reuter: > > GLOVES DON'T KILL BEES > BEEKEEPERS KILL BEES Excuse if form is bad; I'm new to this. I was happy to see this comment. I took a sting on the back of the hand last summer which resulted in a systemic reaction. It was probably not life threatening (except my throat started closing). The main danger was my wife's driving as she took me off the mountain to see a doctor. Anyway, I now wear gloves and prefer not to feel guilty or unmacho. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Feb 1994 08:47:43 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jerry J Bromenshenk Subject: Re: gloves On Mon, 28 Feb 1994, Jack Turner wrote: > According to Gary S. Reuter: > > > > GLOVES DON'T KILL BEES > > BEEKEEPERS KILL BEES > Excuse if form is bad; I'm new to this. > I was happy to see this comment. I took a sting on the back of > the hand last summer which resulted in a systemic reaction. It > was probably not life threatening (except my throat started > closing). Throat closure should be taken seriously. I respond that way to things other than bee stings. My doctors warn me that I should always carry an adrenaline/antihistamine kit. If you are far from the Dr, you may not make it - especially if you had had to drive yourself. Although throat closure may not be as sudden as anaphylactic shock, it should be taken seriously. An inexpensive and very readable book concerning this topic is: INSECTS and ALLERGY and what to do about them. Claude A. Frazier, M.D. and F.K. Brown. 1980. University of Oklahoma Press, Norman, OK. Jerry Bromenshenk jjbmail@selway.umt.edu The University of MT The main danger was my wife's driving as she took me > off the mountain to see a doctor. Maybe we should ask your wife for a second opinion? Anyway, I now wear gloves > and prefer not to feel guilty or unmacho. Good! ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Feb 1994 10:21:48 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Jim G. Shoemaker" Subject: Re: Request for detector In-Reply-To: <9402281508.AA08267@ozarks.sgcl.lib.mo.us> Hello Adrian: If the response is not too overwhelming, I too, would like a copy of the paper on locating feral colonies. Thanks, Jim Shoemaker 5160 S. Western Brookline, MO 65619 (417) 887 0225 jshoemak@ozarks.sgcl.lib.mo.us ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Feb 1994 15:38:07 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Dadi Rusendi Subject: Re[2]: Request for detector In-Reply-To: In reply to your message of MON 28 FEB 1994 10:07:58 EST >>Dear Bee-l netters: >>Does anybody know about a beehive-detector? >>My point is by using this detector I can easily find >>the beehive without following the bees. Is this instrument >>really existing? > >> Dadi > > >Dear Dadi, > > Some of us recently published a paper that reviews and outlines all >methods for locating bee colonies: > >Wenner, A.M., J.E. Alcock, and D.E. Meade. 1992. Efficient hunting of >feral colonies. Bee Science. 2(2):64-70. > > If you provide me a mailing address, I can send you a copy. (By the way, >it is a good idea to place your address, etc., on each e-mail message you >send -- it avoids confusion. > > Best wishes. > > Adrian > > > >*************************************************************** >* Adrian Wenner E-Mail wenner@lifesci.lscf.ucsb.edu * >* Department of Biology Office Phone (805) 893-2838 * >* University of California Lab Phone (805) 893-2838 * >* Santa Barbara, CA 93106 FAX (805) 893-4724 * >*************************************************************** >Dear Dadi, > > Some of us recently published a paper that reviews and outlines all >methods for locating bee colonies: > >Wenner, A.M., J.E. Alcock, and D.E. Meade. 1992. Efficient hunting of >feral colonies. Bee Science. 2(2):64-70. > > If you provide me a mailing address, I can send you a copy. (By the way, >it is a good idea to place your address, etc., on each e-mail message you >send -- it avoids confusion. > > Best wishes. > > Adrian +--------------------------------------------------------------- Dear Adrian, Thank you very much for your information. I've checked the arti- cle you mentioned, Unfortunately our library does not subscribe Bee Sciences. So, please send me a copy of your article. Many thanks for your kindness attention. Your information will be very helpful for bee-farmers in my country, Indonesia. Cordially, dadi ((<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>)) <> Dadi Rusendi <> <> Dept. Agricultural Engineering <> <> Macdonald Campus of McGill University <> <> 21,111 Lakeshore Road, P.O. Box 211 <> <>Ste-Anne-de-Bellevue, Quebec, H9X 3V9, Canada <> <> E-mail account: xnjm@musicb.mcgill.ca <> ((<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>)) ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Feb 1994 15:44:25 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jane Power Subject: Re: gloves hi! I wear gloves and it works out just fine. I have two queens who instruct their workers to sting now and ask questions later. Of course, I battle with bears a fair bit to--no gloves--and understand the grumpiness. I haven't tried the leather gloves, they do seem ungainly, but have used the canvas ones for three years. Be careful about big allergic reactions, I understand they worsen with exposure. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Feb 1994 16:11:32 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "La Reine de la Cite' des Phoques (Liz Day)" Subject: Re: Request for detector Detection of bee colonies sounds very much like finding wild bird nests.. which is still done by having people go into the woods and look until they find one. This can be effective if the people are skilled and persistent... Liz Day University of Illinois at Chicago day@eecs.uic.edu ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Feb 1994 15:11:32 PST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jane Beckman Subject: Glass observation hives I notice that the mail supplier I was considering has discontinued their glass-encased observation hive---of course, when I was considering getting one. This is not the standard single-frame-wide observation "hive" that they still market, but rather a complete hive (with optional glass-enclosed supers). My question is: does anyone know of a source for these? The previous source was Brushy Mountain, and they were $64.95 for the basic hive body with frames. I've already got a "homemade" observation hive: a standard hive body modified with an extension with a plexiglass side. (Guess what! Bees won't cover plexiglass with propolis! ;-) It's done well for me (last year, I got to watch them destroying queen cells on the bottom of the frames), but I was considering something more spiffy. Were these observation hives discontinued because they have problems of some sort? Or weren't they selling enough of them. Has anyone on the list used these? --Jane Beckman [jane@swdc.stratus.com] ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Feb 1994 16:34:03 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Malcolm (Tom) Sanford, Florida Extension Apiculturist" Subject: March issue of APIS Distributed to: USR:[MTS]INTERNET.DIS;15, mts FILENAME: MARAPIS.94 Florida Extension Beekeeping Newsletter Apis--Apicultural Information and Issues (ISSN 0889-3764) Volume 12, Number 3, March 1994 CITRUS LEAFMINER--WHAT IT MEANS TO BEEKEEPERS University of Florida Cooperative Extension Service publication SP 156, "The Citrus Leafminer, Phyllocnistis citrella, A New Pest of Citrus in Florida," will be distributed to a large number of citrus growers at regional meetings in March. This is in response to invasion by the citrus leafminer (CLM), native to eastern and southern Asia. CLM larvae "mine" tender foliage and stems, causing leaf drop. Heavy infestations can retard growth of nursery and newly-planted trees or may reduce yield of bearing trees. According to the publication, "The combination of these factors makes this species one of the most feared pests in citrus production." Like most introduced species, the citrus leafminer has quickly made its mark. By time of detection, May 1993, over 90% of Dade County's newly-replanted lime groves and much of the local dooryard citrus was already infested. All citrus growing counties in Florida are now affected. Here are some other details about this insect and its control. According to Dr. Phil Stansly, one of the above publication's authors, writing in Pest Alert on the IFAS Computer System in August, 1993: Leafminer Biology: Unlike the vegetable leafminer, which is a small fly, the citrus leafminer is a tiny moth, about 1.5 times the size of a citrus whitefly. The silvery and brown adults are active at dusk and at night, hiding in foliage during the day. Egg laying generally occurs on the underside of young flush, although in heavy infestations, eggs may be laid on the top of the leaf or on stems. The tiny, dome-shaped egg is almost transparent. The hatching larva bores directly into the leaf and begins "mining" (eating) tissue just below the epidermis, leaving a trail of yellow-liquid frass which dries to white, then brown. These "mines" zigzag around the leaf but generally do not cross the vein. The mature larva migrates toward the leaf margin in which it rolls up to pupate. The total generation time can be between 13 and 52 days depending on temperature. Damage: In many groves there are 3 or more mines per leaf on young flush, often this number on the stem. Mined tissue eventually becomes necrotic and falls off, so that severely damaged flush is lost. Grapefruit seems to be most affected, possibly because it flushes most, but oranges may be severely damaged as well. Young trees are more affected than older trees for the same reason: more flush. Naturally, there is no shortage of summer flush in southwest Florida with so many young trees being pushed so hard. Its nothing short of leafminer paradise, especially for the first wave of miners with no natural enemies nor grower controls to contend with. As with other introduced pests, the worst is at first. Chemical Control Options: Unfortunately, the grower's arsenal of effective chemical controls is severely limited. Agrimek + oil seems to give the best results, though probably not more than two weeks control under high pressure. Growers have been using it at half or less the labeled rate for rust mite with good success. However, even at reduced rates the costs would soon become prohibitive. An additional concern is the real danger of losing a powerful tool against rust mite through overuse and the inevitable resistance that would result. Other materials such as Dimethoate (Cygon), or methidathion (Supracide) are less effective. Here the danger is not only cost and resistance, but the inevitable damage to biological control of scale insects and other pests. The result could be a real nightmare, or at least a return to the bad old days of constant battles with scales and the like. Some selectivity could be achieved by spraying superficially to cover flush but avoiding penetration of the canopy, thereby allowing for some degree of refuge survival of beneficials. Even so, it is obvious that chemical control alone is not a viable solution. Other Experiences With CLM: The experiences of China and Australia in CLM control can be drawn on to some extent, according to Publication SP 156. Nine to 15 generations are produced per year in China, depending on geographic location. Spring flushes are the least damaged; summer and fall flushes suffer the most serious infestations due to buildup of leafminer populations. Yield reduction can reach up to 50 percent and fruit weight can be reduced from 120 g to 70 g. Cultural control methods include manual removal of early and late-growing flushes and pre-flush pruning to create uniform flushing to desynchronized flushing and CLM population peaks. The insecticides Carbaryl, Mipcin and Phosmet were used to control CLM from 1970 to 1980. However, due to the development of resistance by CLM and harmful effects on the natural enemies, these pesticides are no longer used. Several predators and parasitic wasps attacking CLM have been found in China. CLM was first recorded in Australia in 1940, but did not become problematic in citrus until 1965. Naturally occurring biological control has not proven effective, so parasitic wasps are being introduced from Thailand and China. In the meantime, cultural control of flushing is one means being employed to reduce losses. Again, infestations are lowest in the spring, so rapid growth of spring flush is promoted by application of fertilizer during winter. Populations in summer an autumn are generally high, so summer and autumn growth is discouraged by reducing fertilizer and irrigation to maintenance levels. Chemical control of mature trees is generally not warranted; however, young resets within the mature grove are at risk. Young trees and nursery stocks may require two or more annual sprays. Unfortunately, effective, economical chemical control has not been achieved with available products. Petroleum oil applied to flush leaves appears to inhibit egg deposition by the female moth. The rapidly expanding leaf requires frequent applications for protection. Long-Range Control Strategy: According to SP 156, a long-term approach to solving the CLM problem in Florida should include: 1) an economic assessment of the damage; 2) a combination of cultural and chemical controls for the short range; and 3) biological control as the most economical and environmentally sound solution for the long range. An adequate damage assessment will require controlled studies. The leafminer is an indirect pest, affecting mostly photosynthesis through reduction of leaf surface area. Leafminer population, tree size, variety and market destination must all be considered. Protecting the Flush: The goal of cultural and chemical controls should be to protect the main flushes, when the young, tender vegetation that is critical for tree growth, setting bloom and preventing excessive June drop is most at risk. The strategy would depend on creating "flush free periods" prior to the major spring and summer flushes. The spring and summer flushes would have to be consolidated to separate them from each other and from other minor flushes during the year. Winter, post-spring and post-summer flushing would be suppressed in an effort to reduce leafminer numbers. New growth could be discouraged by irrigating at maintenance levels and without fertilizer until the summer rains. All of these may not be practical under Florida conditions. Chemical control should be seen as an adjunct to cultural control; a way of protecting the main flushes, especially in spring and early summer. Unfortunately, the flush and bloom time may overlap and therein lies a potential problem. Will efforts to protect the spring flush affect honey bees? The answer is maybe. Publication SP 165 reads, "When 50 percent of the trees show new flush, begin a scouting program. When 30 percent of the new flush leaves show the typical zig-zag (serpentine) mine, initiate pesticide application with an effective product. Continue to scout and if 30 percent of the new flush leaves since the pesticide application show active zig-zag mines, reapply." Although there may be reasons to apply insecticides, there are also strong disincentives. Beyond possible harm to honey bees, many other beneficial insects may be affected. The spray pattern must also "...provide good distribution of the material to both sides of flush leaves only. Canopy penetration is unnecessary and would increase unwanted contact with non-target organisms." It concludes, "Chemical management of this pest should be undertaken with extreme caution and thought..." The publication provides application rates for two chemicals: Agri-Mek + FC-435-66 oil and Malathion + FC-435-66 oil. All this indicates that it will not be business as usual this year in the citrus groves. In existing groves of non-bearing or young bearing trees, the spring flush may account for up to 50 percent of the annual leaf production and efforts to protect it from CLM must be maximized. Because this is a new pest, there may be times when all options or consequences are not considered. Growers may be quick on the pesticide application trigger. And spraying in nearby groves could affect colonies in areas where no pesticide is being used. Thus, beekeepers must be ever alert, actively communicating with growers to avoid possible problems and in possession of as much detailed information as possible. A copy of SP 156 would be a good start. It is four pages long, complete with color photographs of the life cycle and damage caused by this insect. This is a for-sale publication. Send a check for $2.00 plus 6 percent sales tax ($.12), if you are a Florida resident to University of Florida, Publications, P.O. Box 110011, Gainesville, FL 32611-0011. MORE ON FLUVALINATE Dr. Yaacov Lensky's comments reported in the January issue of APIS provoked a good deal of response. The first had to do with the fact that it looked as if he was encouraging the use of Maverik (R)-soaked wooden inserts (strips). He does this in Israel. However, Maverik (R)-soaked wooden inserts are not a legal option in the United States! Only Apistan (R) plastic strips have a label for Varroa control in this country. I will have more to say about Dr. Lensky's remarks and responses to them in future issues of this newsletter. HONEY COOKBOOK RELEASED I have in my possession the National Honey Board's new cookbook entitled: Sweetened With Honey -- the Natural Way. This is a delightful volume with 100 delectable recipes featuring honey. It is jammed with color photographs of breads, spreads and meats. And it's inexpensive. The book will be available a supermarket chekout stands throughout the country at a cost of $2.95, but can be had for $2.50 through the mail. It is also a great sales tool at the local level and price breaks are available for bulk orders. Purchasing ten through 99 copies reduces the cost to $1.75 each and lots over a hundred go for $1.25 each. For a single copy, send a check or money order to National Honey Board -- Dept. BK, P.O. Box 7760, Marshfield, WI 54449. If you want to buy in bulk, contact the Longmont office using the Board's new 800 number, 553-7162. NEW VIDEO AVAILABLE The Pennsylvania State University has released "Why Honey Bees?" This 29-minute video discusses the value of bees from different perspectives. It costs $35.00, including postage and handling. Send checks payable to Penn. State University and mail to Ag. Information Services, Penn. State University, 119 Ag. Administration Bldg., University Park, PA 16802. Malcolm T. Sanford Bldg 970, Box 110620 University of Florida Gainesville, FL 32611-0620 Phone (904) 392-1801, Ext. 143 FAX: 904-392-0190 BITNET Address: MTS@IFASGNV INTERNET Address: MTS@GNV.IFAS.UFL.EDU ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Feb 1994 17:47:35 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jerry J Bromenshenk Subject: Re: Glass observation hives On Mon, 28 Feb 1994, Jane Beckman wrote: > I notice that the mail supplier I was considering has discontinued their > glass-encased observation hive---of course, when I was considering getting > one. This is not the standard single-frame-wide observation "hive" that > they still market, but rather a complete hive (with optional glass-enclosed > supers). My question is: does anyone know of a source for these? The > previous source was Brushy Mountain, and they were $64.95 for the basic > hive body with frames. > > I've already got a "homemade" observation hive: a standard hive body > modified with an extension with a plexiglass side. (Guess what! Bees > won't cover plexiglass with propolis! ;-) It's done well for me (last year, Jane, your bees may not cover plexiglass with propolis, but mine do. I can't see any difference between glass and plexiglass from that standpoint - and I have used both. Depending on the type of plastic used in the plexiglass, it may absorb water. For example, plexigas and Lucite are acrylic and transmit 3-5% more light than standard glass. Polycarbonates such as Lexan are tougher (virtually unbreakable) but are more flexible and may sag due to their tendency to absorb water. Lexan is 250 times more impact resistant than glass and 30 times more than plexiglas. One advantage to using plastics is machinability, the other shatter resistance. As a worry wart, I like to use plastic, especially if the observation hive is likely to be moved or where lots of people are around. Jerry Bromenshenk The University of MT jjbmail@selway.umt.edu > I got to watch them destroying queen cells on the bottom of the frames), but > I was considering something more spiffy. Were these observation hives > discontinued because they have problems of some sort? Or weren't they > selling enough of them. Has anyone on the list used these? > > --Jane Beckman [jane@swdc.stratus.com] >