From LISTSERV@UACSC2.ALBANY.EDU Mon Oct 3 16:22:32 1994 Date: Mon, 3 Oct 1994 18:10:58 -0400 From: BITNET list server at ALBNYVM1 To: Allen Dick Subject: File: "BEE-L LOG9403" ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Feb 1994 21:24:38 -0800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: John Robert Bidleman Subject: Re: gloves In-Reply-To: <199402282051.AA07037@crl.crl.com> I have had the exact opposite experience with frequency of stings. I wonder if you could clarify what you mean and why you believe it? :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: : robbee@crl.com : : Robert Box 721 Healdsburg CA 95448 : :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: On Mon, 28 Feb 1994, Jane Power wrote: > I understand they worsen with exposure. While I'm sure I don't have the largest database to work from the persons I have talked to who work bees and have bad reactions, report an improvement. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Mar 1994 09:59:11 +0000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Malcolm Roe Subject: Wanted: Bee Clip-art. Does anyone have any bee clip-art? That is, small computer readable images of bees that could be incorporated into documents on a word processor. Any common format would do. I've got facilities to do conversions. I'm interested in both realistic drawings and caricatures such as bees with human(oid) faces. -- Malcolm Roe Phone : +44 442 230000 ext 4104 Crosfield Electronics Ltd Fax : +44 442 232301 Hemel Hempstead, Herts. HP2 7RH, UK E-mail : roe@crosfield.co.uk ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Mar 1994 08:36:20 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jane Power Subject: Re: gloves sorry about that...I am new at this and managed to hit the wrong button. This to I hope will lesson with exposure....now to finish my sentence...these reactions do worsen with exposure. That's what I was thinking about. Jane Power ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Mar 1994 06:58:55 PST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Adrian Wenner Subject: Re: Re[2]: Request for detector ------ > > Dear Adrian, > > Thank you very much for your information. I've checked the arti- > cle you mentioned, Unfortunately our library does not subscribe > Bee Sciences. So, please send me a copy of your article. > > Many thanks for your kindness attention. Your information will > be very helpful for bee-farmers in my country, Indonesia. > > Cordially, > dadi > > ((<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>)) > <> Dadi Rusendi <> > <> Dept. Agricultural Engineering <> > <> Macdonald Campus of McGill University <> > <> 21,111 Lakeshore Road, P.O. Box 211 <> > <>Ste-Anne-de-Bellevue, Quebec, H9X 3V9, Canada <> > <> E-mail account: xnjm@musicb.mcgill.ca <> > ((<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>)) Dear Dadi, The reprint will go out today. You might be interested to know that I am providing advice to someone in northern Australia. Apparently Apis cerana is leapfrogging from mangrove island to mangrove island and edging ever nearer the northern coast of Australia. Since they carry the varroa mite, some action must be taken. Adrian *************************************************************** * Adrian Wenner E-Mail wenner@lifesci.lscf.ucsb.edu * * Department of Biology Office Phone (805) 893-2838 * * University of California Lab Phone (805) 893-2838 * * Santa Barbara, CA 93106 FAX (805) 893-4724 * *************************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Mar 1994 08:17:47 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jerry J Bromenshenk Subject: Re: gloves Sensitivity to bee stings may change with time. Some of us get less sensitive with repeated stings, others go the other way, sometimes very rapidly. Desensitization to bee stings as practiced by the medical community often involves injections of small amounts of bee venom, which seems to work better than the older extracts from whole bees. The process is very similar to that used to desensitize people allergic to pollen, dust, cats and dogs, etc. I know, I went through five years of the shots. Usually, the medical folks conduct a skin test to determine the patient's sensitivity before starting the process. I know of one Mayo clinic case in which a beekeeper's wife was so sensitive to bee stings that she reacted badly to even the small amounts of venom used in the initial tests. The doctors gave her a blood transfusion from a beekeeper who wasn't affected by bee stings. Then they started the desensitization series. Among my crews, I have had students and employees who may go for years without any reaction, and then one day suddenly swell, break out in hives, get short of breath, etc. Two of my friends also developed bad reactions AFTER several years of working bees. For my crews, so far the tally is one that had to stop working bees, and two that occassionally exhibited moderately severe responses. The number of stings did not seem to be a factor. Medical test on these latter indicated that they were not "truly" allergic, but they started carrying the bee sting kits. A bit of a reaction is not uncommon in the spring among those of us who work bees in cold climates and as such don't get stung in the winter. What really scares me are the occassional commercial or hobbiest beekeeper who demonstrates moderate to severe reactions, but continues to work bees - claiming that things get better as the season progresses. My hunch is that they are conducting an uncontrolled desensitization (no control over frequency and amount of the dose) - WHICH IS A VERY DANGEROUS FORM OF SELF-TREATMENT. Again, I refer people to the book I cited yesterday - Insects and Allergy ... by Claude Frazier and F.K. Brown. Anecdotal stories of how I cured my allergy to bee stings may lead others to think if she or he can do it, so can I. You may not live to regret that decision. Jerry Bromenshenk The University of Montana jjbmail@selway.umt.edu On Mon, 28 Feb 1994, John Robert Bidleman wrote: > I have had the exact opposite experience with frequency of stings. I > wonder if you could clarify what you mean and why you believe it? > > :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: > : robbee@crl.com : > : Robert Box 721 Healdsburg CA 95448 : > :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: > > On Mon, 28 Feb 1994, Jane Power wrote: > > > I understand they worsen with exposure. > > While I'm sure I don't have the largest database to work from the persons > I have talked to who work bees and have bad reactions, report an improvement. > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Mar 1994 10:09:46 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Donovan Bodishbaugh Subject: Re: Allergic Reactions In-Reply-To: <199403010523.AAA29231@acpub.duke.edu> Hi All, The recent discussion about allergic reactions to bee stings has generally consisted of anecdotal stories and personal experiences. That's fine, but for those who want some info backed by medical studies (which are just very large compilations of personal experiences, analyzed by statistical methods), you should read the chapter on the topic in the new edition of The Hive & the Honeybee. I don't have my copy in front of me, but it is well written, and exposes a few myths. For example, you can say NOTHING about the ultimate result of repeated stings, based on an initial reaction. Some people get worse, some get better. A person who has a mild systemic reaction on their first sting has exactly the same chances of developing immunity or higher sensitivity to stings as someone who suffers no effects on the first sting. Some people (a small number) progress directly from no effect to full blown anaphylactic shock. Some of the reasons for this variation are discussed in the chapter and associated references. Some are not well understood. Everyone should recognize that their own experiences are probably very limited when compared to those of the general population. Risk is inherent in life, but we should encourage novices to err on the side of caution until they find their own level of mental and physical comfort in dealing with bees and stings. It helps to be armed with the facts too. I think the responsible thing to do is point people toward good references (as several here have done). Rick Bodishbaugh ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Mar 1994 10:38:34 +0000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Rick Hough Subject: sting responses Well stated, Jerry! Sorry about the length of this - after looking this over, I realized that I got to rambling a bit. Anyhow, here goes..... What I have heard (but not experienced personally) is that there are two distinct groups of people: Those who develop immunity to bee stings after repeated regular exposure, and those who become hypersensitive. Another interesting factor that recently came to light is the impact of certain drugs on an individual's sting reaction. My wife experienced a fairly severe reaction to a sting on the nose which included systemic symptoms ("minor" closing of the throat). She happened to have an Epi pen handy, and gave herself an injection. The adrenalin from the Epi-pen gave her as much of a rush as the sting itself did!!! In any case, she has subsequently been stung a number of times, without unusual swelling (both she and I exhibit what I would call moderate swelling to bee stings - for example, if stung on the back of the hand, the entire back of my hand will swell, and sometimes up past my wrist slightly - the swelling dissipates after a day or two, but "the itchies" can last 3-5 days). In retrospect, we attributed her severe reaction to the pain medication she was on. It was an over-the-counter drug aspirin substitute, and I can't remember which one. I remember reading in a recent ?ABJ?Bee Culture? about this subject. Does anyone else recall seeing it - I seem to recall the drugs in question to be "non-steroidal anti-inflammatory drugs", but I'm not sure. Rick Hough, Hamilton, MA, USA rshough@tasc.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Mar 1994 08:14:00 -0800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Kerry Clark 784-2225 fax (604) 784 2299" Subject: Re: Glass observation hives Jane I've used 3 types: 3 frames horizontally (like a nuc), one frame, or 4 frames vertically. I've seen the glass-walled box in use, but as expected, the bee cluster stays secluded in the interior, and not much is visible until the population is very large and they work the outer walls. Of the 3 I've tried, the 4 frame vertical is the best permanent setup: all surfaces are visible, and there is enough space for a fairly viable population. You may still have to service the hive (add or remove bees/food). The single is OK for a few days, but quickly runs short of food or space. Good luck with it, I learned a lot from 2 or 3 years with an observation hive in my bedroom. Kerry Clark, Apiculture Specialist B.C. Ministry of Agriculture 1201 103 Ave Dawson Creek B.C. V1G 4J2 CANADA Tel (604) 784-2225 fax (604) 784-2299 INTERNET KCLARK@GALAXY.GOV.BC.CA ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Mar 1994 12:51:50 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jerry J Bromenshenk Subject: Re: Allergic Reactions To Donovan and Rick: Good points. Justin's chapter pretty much covers the field. He has first hand experience since he got bit on the finger by a Rattlesnake. Got mighty sick. Several weeks later he had a really bloated, ugly finger. Personally, I think he over-states the case against immunotherapy treatments. They do work. I have colleagues who do research in remote areas where Medical attention is not convenient. My feelings, venon is plentiful, the pharmaceutical companies have little interest - not enough sales. So, treatment is articially expensive. It doesn't have to be. Jerry jjbmail@selway.umt.edu ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Mar 1994 16:23:29 -0500 Reply-To: adamf@hopper.itc.virginia.edu Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Adam Finkelstein Subject: Charter for sci.agriculture.beekeeping Organization: Public Access Internet at UVa. Subject: Re: RFD: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Summary: charter How about a charter for sci.agriculture.beekeeping? Discussions on all aspects of beekeeping, bee-culture, and products of the hive. Please post your input, comments, whatever to news.groups. Subject: RFD: sci.agriculture.beekeeping. If you cant post to usenet and you want to comment, reply to this letter and I'll post it for you. Pollen is coming in! Adam -- =============================================================================== Adam Finkelstein VDACS Apiary Inspector 116 Reservoir St Harrisonburg VA 22801 703-433-1006 (V) 703-434-5607 (Fax) 703-564-4394 (Pager) adamf@hopper.itc.virginia.edu adamf@vtaix.cc.vt.edu |Bees To Please| ================================================================================ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Mar 1994 16:56:28 +0000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Rick Hough Subject: Pollen Adam Finkelstein writes: >How about a charter for sci.agriculture.beekeeping? > >Discussions on all aspects of beekeeping, bee-culture, and products of the >hive. > >Please post your input, comments, whatever to news.groups. Subject: >RFD: sci.agriculture.beekeeping. >If you cant post to usenet and you want to comment, reply to this letter >and I'll post it for you. > >Pollen is coming in! I'm jealous!!!! In the Boston area, we still have more than1 foot of snow on the ground, with a Nor'easter prediced for Thursday with "strong winds and snow, possibly heavy at times". Somehow, I haven't noticed the pollen..... I have noticed a bit of spring fever, though ;-) Rick Hough, Hamilton, MA, USA rshough@tasc.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Mar 1994 14:46:00 -0800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: John Gates 604 549-5580 Subject: Re: sting responses Your memory is pretty good Rick. This phenomenon has been mentioned in a number of journals and newsletters lately.The last article I read was in the Feb/94 issue of the American Bee Journal, pg. 120. Originally, "Understanding Prescription Drugs by Dorothy Smith was published in the British Medical Journal. 292:378, 1986. The nonsteroidal anti-inflammatory drugs mentioned were ibuprofen, fenoprofen, naproxen, ketoprofen, sulindac, piroxicam, suprofen and tolmetin. Was your wife using any of those? John Gates, Apiculture Specialist B.C. Ministry of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food 4607, 23rd. St. Vernon, B.C. Canada, V1T 4K7 Ph:( 604) 549-5580 fax:(604) 549-5488 Internet:JGates@galaxy.gov.bc.ca ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Mar 1994 16:53:30 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jerry J Bromenshenk Subject: Re: Equipment Sterilization Ok, time for a tough question. The challenge: sterilize bee equipment in a manner that will kill all pathogens without damaging the combs or leaving residuals that may affect bees (not just lethal, but also sublethal effects). Costs must be reasonable, but the need is for ultra-sterile for a few hives, so we can afford a bit more than a beekeeper with hundreds or thousands of hives. Effectiveness without complications is what we want. ETO apparently works, but state and federal regs (for applicator safety) are impediments and some of our applications may make this too hazardous. Thermal sterilization also works and leaves no residuals, but temperatures are critical and combs can't contain honey or pollen, or at least very much. Acetic acid might be okay for some purposes - has anyone ever tried this since Bailey's 1957 paper?? Irradiation should work, but not sure of where I have to go to get this done in the vicinity of MT. Chlorine Dioxide is used in some micro- and animal labs. It supposedly is used to bleach wax - is this before being sold for candles, etc., or is foundation bleached??? If foundation is bleached, does this mean it might work for combs??? Any guesses??? Paracetic acid also is used in labs. It breaks down to acetic acid. Might be more potent with the same residual. Anyway, we need something that can sterilize the equipment in a non-destructive manner, be more or less foolproof, and work as a sterilant for a broad array of contaminants. Oh yes, none of the equipment will ever be used for honey production. Jerry Bromenshenk jjbmail@selway.umt.edu The University of MT ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Mar 1994 17:42:07 PST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jane Beckman Subject: Re: Pollen If you want to be *really* jealous, the bees here in the Bay Area of sunny California have been bringing in pollen for a month. This was temporarily interrupted by some major freezes we got, though. --Jane Beckman [jane@swdc.stratus.com] ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Mar 1994 19:59:37 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Jim G. Shoemaker" Subject: Re: Equipment Sterilization In-Reply-To: <9403012353.AA04848@ozarks.sgcl.lib.mo.us> Jerry: Do you mean that none of the equipment can be used as any part of a honey producing hive? Jim Shoemaker jshoemak@ozarks.sgcl.lib.mo.us ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 2 Mar 1994 14:16:41 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: David Taylor RMIT Bundoora Subject: Bee Beards Gooday, Re: the recent mention of bee beards, I saw it done last Sunday at the Victorian Apiarists Association field day near Melbourne. The bees were in a hive in a 2m X 3m fly-mesh covered cage. The brave subject, John, knew his bees behaviour well. First he poured sugar syrup on the frames to give them a ready supply of food. After 10 minutes he caught the queen in a small wire cage with a loop of string and a rubber band attached. The caged queen was left on top of the frames for a further few minutes. John rolled a facial tissue up and plugged his nostrils and ears, then, after gentle smoking, two frames of bees were shaken onto the hive lid and the queen was suspended under John's chin. He sat with his head lowered so that the queen was at the corner of the lid and the bees slowly gathered around her. It took about 7-8 minutes for the beard to form. He then stood up so the crowd could see and take photos. Most there, including myself, were impressed and amazed. John kept his movements to a minimum and didn't open his mouth. He carefully brushed bees down away from his eyes if any climbed too high. Did he get stung? Yes. As he was about to remove the cage, the MC announced that the 'beard' was happening and more people came over - John had to slide the string back on and squashed a bee which got him on the side of his face. He was not concerned - I was watching carefully and didn't see him even flinch. The field day was terrific, I learned a lot, bought a few supplies, and got ideas for some gear I can build myself. I'm assembling bits for a wire embedder which I need now. David david@rmit.edu.au ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 2 Mar 1994 19:51:00 +1300 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: NICKW@WAIKATO.AC.NZ Subject: Observation hives... I've used a variety of observation hives, including a 1 frame 'portable', a 2 frame not quite so portable and a 4 frame vertical. And I agree with Kerry Clark - the 4 frame was without doubt the best for a permanent location. The 2 framer I only ever used as temporary - run out and grab a few frames, one with honey, one with brood. Find the marked queen to put on it. And brace it well in the car (it was perspex...). One design (Russian?) that always intrigued me had one or two vertical frames (one frame wide, that is), then a strip of queen excluder, then, effectively, a 4 frame nuc fitted on top. The 4 frame area was closed in (not glass) and acted as a reservoir for bees/honey that allowed the unit to be more permanent. Two choices for how you fit the glass/perspex - 'onto' the surface (using clips, called 'mirror clips', I think, ___ __|XXXXXXX to fix the glass/perspex against the surface). Or sliding the glass/perspex into a groove from the top of the observation hive (only really possible with perspex). Latter gives less air leakage around the edges - I found the bees didn't care for that (lots standing facing the draught at the edges). Make SURE you have adequate means of dealing with condensation - build in HEAPS of mesh, etc, even if you have to keep it covered. But I found no trouble with 25mm (1in) square of mesh at top and bottom of hive. Especially just after installing, you'll be amazed at the moisture given off. Perspex tended to craze after several years, not being as sparkly clean as when first made. Glass is easier to write on - its neat to circle eggs, and date them, watching the development. If for a permanent location, you can have heaps of fun designing entrance ways that allow you to 'draft' individual bees into side chamber, where you could, say, mark them or remove pollen, etc. And you can by having a wide entrance, arrange to have incoming bees going down one side and outgoing down another: --------------------------------- colony -----\ <---incoming \ bees ---> \------------------------- --------------------------------- For a unit that you'll be moving alot, or if it will be worked regularly, work out a way of easily closing off the entrance and being able to take the whole unit outside - much better than trying to do bee work inside a classroom, for instance. Design some sort of feeder system, too, for a permanent unit - they'll need a lot of babying along in most locations. You may need to top them up with bees/brood. And in a good season, they'll be able to generate more swarms than you'd think possible! REFERENCES Stevenson, Lt H R. 1985. Establish an observation hive and promote beekeeping! Amer Bee Journal. February 1985, pp 89-90. Gale, Dr F C. 1972. Observation beehives. Amer Bee Journal. 112(1): 8-9. Taber, Steve. 1980. Bee behavior. Amer Bee Journal. January 1980, pp 14-15. Gary, N E. 1968. A glass-walled observation hive. Amer Bee Journal 108(3):92-94, 108(4):143-144, 146. Connor, L J. 1974. Observation bee hives. Beekeeping Information Number 10. Entomology Extension, Ohio State University, Columbus, OH 43210. 4 pp. Bosch, K. 1980. The observation hive and scale colony - two important tools. Amer Bee Journal 120(10):712-715, 721. Pedigo, Bobby. 1985. This is what we call a real observation hive. Amer Bee Journal. Nov 1985, pp 737-738 (letter to editor with photograph). Lindauer, M. 1961. Communication among social bees. Harvard Univ Press, Cambridge, MA., p 17. Gojermac, Walter L. Building and operating an observation hive. Univ of Wisc-Extension bulletin A2491. 6pp. Witherell, Peter C. 1970. Behavior of honeybees in glass-covered runways. Gleanings in Bee Culture. November 1970, pp 564-668. Blanchet, Felix. 1979. Honey producing observation hive. Amer Bee Journal. February 1979. pp 114-115,137. Lehnert, T and Cantwell, George E. 1966. The Beltsville research apiarium. Amer Bee Journal 106(9):336-337. Anonymous. 1949. Single-frame observation hive. Co-operative Extension work in Agric and Home Economics, North Carolina State College and U S Dept of Agriculture Cooperating. 1pp. Caron, D M. 1979. Observation bee colonies. Entomology Leaflet 103, Dept Entomology, Univ Maryland, College Park, MD 20742. 14pp. Gary, N E and Lorenzen, K. 1976. How to construct and maintain an observation hive. Dev Agr Sci, Univ California Leaflet 2853. 18pp. Jaycox, E R. 1973. Making and using an observation bee hive. Dept Hort, Univ Illinois Publ H-678, Urbana, IL 61801. 4pp. ------------------------------------- Nick Wallingford Bay of Plenty Polytechnic (East coast, N Island, New Zealand) Internet nickw@waikato.ac.nz ------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 2 Mar 1994 08:01:31 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: MR DAVID M HART Subject: General Info./Mailing list placement to whom it may concern, please e-mail (to:scsd98a@prodigy.com) any and all info. you can about Bee Biology. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 2 Mar 1994 07:09:18 PST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Adrian Wenner Subject: Re: Pollen >I'm jealous!!!! In the Boston area, we still have more than1 foot of snow >on the ground, with a Nor'easter prediced for Thursday with "strong >winds and snow, possibly heavy at times". Somehow, I haven't noticed >the pollen..... I have noticed a bit of spring fever, though ;-) > >Rick Hough, Hamilton, MA, USA >rshough@tasc.com Rick, Quite a contrast. I grew up in extreme NW Minnesota and know what you mean. Today we expect the temperature to rise to about 80 degrees. On our last grant proposal we had an "expert" bee researcher who claimed that we shouldn't have as much money as requested because we obviously couldn't do research in the winter. Eucalyptus started blooming last November, manzanita in January, and lemonadeberry in February. Now the yellow mustard is in full bloom and swarming season is already half over. One sometimes wonders where NSF gets some of their "expert" reviewers. Worse yet, the panel seems most often to take them seriously, I guess because they are experts. Good luck on weathering the storm. Adrian *************************************************************** * Adrian Wenner E-Mail wenner@lifesci.lscf.ucsb.edu * * Department of Biology Office Phone (805) 893-2838 * * University of California Lab Phone (805) 893-2838 * * Santa Barbara, CA 93106 FAX (805) 893-4724 * *************************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 2 Mar 1994 07:14:00 PST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Adrian Wenner Subject: Re: Pollen I forgot to mention in my last message -- don't come to Southern California if you are tempted by the climate. It is too many people here who have weighed down the earth and are causing the earthquakes !! Adrian *************************************************************** * Adrian Wenner E-Mail wenner@lifesci.lscf.ucsb.edu * * Department of Biology Office Phone (805) 893-2838 * * University of California Lab Phone (805) 893-2838 * * Santa Barbara, CA 93106 FAX (805) 893-4724 * *************************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 2 Mar 1994 09:09:36 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: William G Lord Subject: tracheal mites Fellow Beekeepers; Has anyone noticed a location effect associated with trachael mite mortality? I noticed (circumstantially) that the bees in one yard I had that was in a deep creek valley (and colder and more humid than other locations) seemed to have much higher tracheal mite mortality. Rather than experiment to the ultimate conclusion I moved the yard. Has anyone else had similar experiences. Bill Lord Louisburg, NC, USA -- William G Lord E-Mail : wglord@franklin Internet: wglord@franklin.ces.ncsu.edu Phone : -- William G Lord E-Mail : wglord@franklin Internet: wglord@franklin.ces.ncsu.edu Phone : ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 2 Mar 1994 09:12:08 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: William G Lord Subject: gloves As an undergraduate I spent a summer at a well known university bee lab as a summer intern. After about a week it was announced that that night was the night that we had to move an infected (AFB) apiary, three hives at a time in the back of an army surplus jeep. I was recruited as labor and off we went. Naturally no one at this place wore gloves (shudder the thought, you took your stings like a man and never complained). Well, I got about 60 stings that night and passed the test, but I can tell you it was not a pleasant experience. I have been stung more since, including by African bees in Africa, but I have never been ashamed to wear a good pair of gloves. My philosophy is to advise beginners to wear gloves until they develop enough confidence to shed them, as well as enough knowledge to know that there is a time and a place to put them on. Beekeeping should not be a macho, masochistic experience, but sometimes it is heavy, dangerous work that is aided by a good pair of gloves. Bill Lord Louisburg, NC -- William G Lord E-Mail : wglord@franklin Internet: wglord@franklin.ces.ncsu.edu Phone : -- William G Lord E-Mail : wglord@franklin Internet: wglord@franklin.ces.ncsu.edu Phone : ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 2 Mar 1994 10:38:44 +0000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Rick Hough Subject: RE>Re: sting responses John Gates writes: >Your memory is pretty good Rick. This phenomenon has been mentioned in >a number of journals and newsletters lately.The last article I read was >in the Feb/94 issue of the American Bee Journal, pg. 120. Originally, >"Understanding Prescription Drugs by Dorothy Smith was published in >the British Medical Journal. 292:378, 1986. The nonsteroidal >anti-inflammatory drugs mentioned were ibuprofen, fenoprofen, >naproxen, ketoprofen, sulindac, piroxicam, suprofen and tolmetin. >Was your wife using any of those? Yup. It was ibuprofen. Thanks for confirming my recollection, and providing the American Bee Journal reference. Rick Hough, Hamilton, MA, USA rshough@tasc.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 2 Mar 1994 11:16:35 +0000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Rick Hough Subject: RE>Re: Pollen Adrian - thanks for the sympathy! BTW, I was out west for 8 years, but left in '89, before the fires, riots, big earthquakes. Been through my share of small temblors, though. My wife and I were in Los Angeles (Culver City - just above the Fox Hills Mall, if you know where that is - or was, I heard it burned to the ground in the riot!) I worked for TRW in El Segundo at the time. Say hi to the Pacific for me! Rick rshough@tasc.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 2 Mar 1994 11:17:36 +0000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Rick Hough Subject: hello Beltsville?? Sorry for the bandwidth on that last one - the note to Adrian was s'posed to be private, but I hit the "send" button before I switched the BEE-L address to her private address. Anyhow, wanted to know if any folks from Beltsville, MD bee lab are listening (or anyone else that has the answer) - I need the address to send bee samples to at the lab, and instructions on the preferred method of preparing the bees for shipment Beltsville. Thanks Rick Hough, Hamilton, MA USA. rshough@tasc.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 2 Mar 1994 09:17:32 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jerry J Bromenshenk Subject: Re: Pollen Adrian: I don't know who the NSF "bee expert" was, but it certainly wasn't me. I have two bee research projects going full tilt in Montana and have had all winter. We hhave a Tracheal Mite study in Helena, a test of overwintering mini-nucs (yes, most are still alive, or were last week), and I have indoor colonies. All are producing brood. This part of MT isn't as bad as MN most years, but I know a commercial beekeeper over against the N. Dakota border that grafts all of the queens for a 1200 colonie operation, in Montana, in the winter. He puts his breeder colonies out the back door of a shed, and starts setting up in Febraury, with the first break in winter, he is off and running. So, if you can't do bee research or commercial bee activities in winter, its news to me. Cheers Jerry ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 2 Mar 1994 09:21:52 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jerry J Bromenshenk Subject: Re: tracheal mites We are working on issues such as location. However, one has to consider exposure to infested bees. Bees drift within yards, so if one colony has them, the others are likely to be exposed via drifting and robbing. We have noticed a colony specific effect, some have them, some don't, which is not surprising. Would like to figure out more concerning themechanisms which may be genetically controlled (i.e., resistance). However, I do suspect that stress plays an important role in resistance. So one could find location differences due to diffferent stressors or a different degree of stress at one location versus another. Jerry jjbmail@selway.umt.edu ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 2 Mar 1994 09:32:22 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jerry J Bromenshenk Subject: Re: Equipment Sterilization On Tue, 1 Mar 1994, Jim G. Shoemaker wrote: > Jerry: > > Do you mean that none of the equipment can be used as any part of a honey > producing hive? > > Jim Shoemaker > jshoemak@ozarks.sgcl.lib.mo.us > Jim: No, I mean that our research hives will never be used as any part of a honey producing hive. Irradiation, ETO, and heat have been used to sterilize hive equipment for honey producers. Some of the other chemicals that I mentioned may be good sterilants, but are not approved for use in hives used to produce honey, wax, pollen, etc. Considering the difficulty of registering Menthol for use in hives against tracheal mites, one would only embark on this path if the sterilant was super effective, non-harmful to bees, and not likely to present a hazard to human health. For our needs, we don't care about the food to human health transfer, it is not an issue. Our protocol will require us to destroy or sterilize all equipment at the end of the experiment. All of the equipment is in the form of mini-nucs. (Nucleus colonies in small hives) My students have often joked that we are the biggest "little" beekeepers around --- we run as many as 200 nucs (and mini-nucs) for our research purposes. Jerry jjbmail@selway.umt.edu The University of Montana ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 2 Mar 1994 11:28:00 -0800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Kerry Clark 784-2225 fax (604) 784 2299" Subject: Re: tracheal mites The winter mortality that is observed among tracheal mite infested colonies is related to the infestation prevalence. In locations where extra stresses prevail, such as greater length of winter, damp or cold, the mortality (even without mites) is greater. The same "poor" conditions may cause reduced colony growth rate, and therefore promote or allow a greater mite prevalence,... So tracheal mites are a contributing factor to winter mortality, and they may be the "last straw" for colonies in a marginal winter situation. But there may be other last straws.. Kerry Clark, Apiculture Specialist B.C. Ministry of Agriculture 1201 103 Ave Dawson Creek B.C. V1G 4J2 CANADA Tel (604) 784-2225 fax (604) 784-2299 INTERNET KCLARK@GALAXY.GOV.BC.CA ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 3 Mar 1994 09:54:38 GMT+1200 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Louise Malone Organization: HortResearch, Mt Albert, N.Z. Subject: BEES AND LOTUS Dear Everyone Can anyone tell me if honey bees are known to use the pollen and/or nectar of Lotus japonicus? I know they go for Lotus corniculatus, but I'm not sure about this species. Thanks, Louise Malone. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 2 Mar 1994 16:03:43 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jane Power Subject: Re: Pollen Okay...my bees are eating last summer's stores BUT they are flying on sunny winter days at -10C. Jane Power ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 2 Mar 1994 16:04:01 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: BATSON@FRMNVAX1.BITNET Subject: data For some time now I have been interested in tracheal mite (and varroa) infestation, as most of us have. Like others, I have previously purchased putative resistant packages, and I have already ordered an number of new packages for the spring of so-called Tabor resistant bees, plus some Yugo bees that are reputed to be resistant. My question is simple: Where is the evidence of resistance? I would very much appreciate anyone's telling me about data that uphold the reputed claims to tracheal mite resistance. I assume that because I do not read all of the insect/parasite/ecological journals that I have missed the reports. I am unfortunately afflicted with a wealth of ignorance, so I would appreciate your tolerance with my having missed the reports. A number of companies now advertise resistant bees, and a number of us are eager to accept the claims of resistance. But as a scientist, I am naturally concerned about the data. Are these companies that advertise/sell so-called resistant bees obligated to backup their claims with scientific reports? Please don't get me wrong....with mites being the problem that they are, I am as eager (as a hobbyist/researcher) to grasp at straws as anyone else. However, as a scientist, I wonder about the extant evidence. Can anyone provide some reference to published data? Many thanks. ------------------------ John Batson --------------- ------------ Psychology--Furman Univ. BATSON@FRMNVAX1 803-294-3213 Greenville SC 29613 --------------- ------------ ------------------------ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 2 Mar 1994 20:42:03 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Adam Finkelstein Subject: Re: Pollen In-Reply-To: <199403021618.AA30092@Hopper.itc.Virginia.EDU> from "Jerry J Bromenshenk" at Mar 2, 94 09:17:32 am I know a commercial beekeeper over > against the N. Dakota border that grafts all of the queens for a 1200 > colonie operation, in Montana, in the winter. He puts his breeder > colonies out the back door of a shed, and starts setting up in Febraury, > with the first break in winter, he is off and running. > Interesting . He must have drones for mating. How does he do this at this time of year? Adam -- =============================================================================== Adam Finkelstein VDACS Apiary Inspector 116 Reservoir St Harrisonburg VA 22801 703-433-1006 (V) 703-434-5607 (Fax) 703-564-4394 (Pager) adamf@hopper.itc.virginia.edu adamf@vtaix.cc.vt.edu |Bees To Please| ================================================================================ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 2 Mar 1994 16:06:04 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Gary S. Reuter" Subject: Re: Feeding Bees Pollen Substitutes > > Does anyone have a pollen substitute recipe they would like to share? > > Pollen Sub should be a mixture of soy flour, dried milk and brewers yeast. I get it from a supplier but make sure it includes all of the ingredients. Bees will take saw dust if nothing else is around so don't assume it is good just because they eat it. I prefer to trap some pollen from the year before and add 20% with the purchase pollen sub mised with heavy sugar syrup to make cookie dough. Make patties 3/8 inches thick and put on top of frames over the brood nest. Once you start to feed do not let them run out before the natural pollen is available. They raise brood in response to available pollen. If you get them started and then stop supplying it a lot of larvae will die or be undernurished. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 2 Mar 1994 19:05:42 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "La Reine de la Cite' des Phoques (Liz Day)" Subject: keeping Bombus dry When collecting Bombus, I have a problem in keeping them dry. In summer I find that killing jars sweat inside very quickly. If the bee gets wet, its fur never looks nice again. I was using cyanide jars, which usually killed them very fast, before they had time to get messed up, but I have become too nervous of cyanide and am trying other chemicals, none of which work... Lots of people tell me they use ethyl acetate or n-butyl acetate. But in my experience, these take FOREVER to actually kill the poor bees. You think they're dead, you mount them, and then later you discover them moving. UGH. So next time you leave them in the jar for the hour or more it seems to take to make sure they're dead, and they get all wet. What methods have other people used to solve this problem? Cyanide is out. Thank you...! Liz Day University of Illinois at Chicago day@eecs.uic.edu ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 2 Mar 1994 21:57:00 CST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: P30LEK1@NIU.BITNET Subject: Re: Feeding Bees Pollen Substitutes I am looking for a few thoughts on candy boards. It is getting to the time of year where some of the local beekeepers (northern Illinois) place them on the hives. some years I have done this. I am undecided about this spring. Are there any thoughts on the pro's and cons's of candy boards? How about recipes? Thanks for your insights. Larry Krengel Marengo, IL USA ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 2 Mar 1994 16:19:00 GMT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: ANDY NACHBAUR Subject: SPRING HAS SPRUNG! This message was from ANDY NACHBAUR to ALL originally in conference WN-BEENET on WILDBEES (WILD BEE'S BBS) ---------------------------------------- hI All! Spring is here in the central valley of California. The almonds are coming into full bloom and the air is full of bees and the heavy aroma of almond pollen. Beekeepers are finishing up on movement of bees into the almonds and the weather has warmed up to the mid 70's. The condition of the bees placed in the almonds is better then the last few years due to better pasture conditions last fall. As always some notable severe losses due to winter dwindling was experienced by a good number of beekeepers. In some extreme cases the loss approached 75%, and was not thought to be caused by starvation, pests, or pesticides. As far as I know no investigation into these losses is ongoing or planned. Beekeeping is a political incorrect endeavor in the United States today, and no one in California government is going to spend any money to investigate problems for such a unpopular group, especially since 50% of the bees in the state for almond pollination are from out of state and pay little if any taxes in California. Even fuel taxes are so high and quality is so poor, most truckers don't buy any fuel at all in California if they can avoid it. The only effort from our government services is to put out a continuing warning that the "killer" bees will arrive here any moment, but not to worry. Well someone should tell them the dreaded Afro bees have been part of the gene pool here for many years maybe 90 years or more, and the only difference between the areas that are declared to have Afro bees is the placement of traps, or the looking for them. In effect where ever the government looks for the dreaded Afro bees they are soon found. The almonds require more bees then can be supported year around in California, so we have 500,000+ hives in the almonds that were in other states last summer. Thousands of these hives come from Texas, Arizona, and other areas that are known to be inhabited by Afro genes, so it is reasonable to expect that they have left and will leave their genetic mark on our shirking supply of truly local bees. ttul Andy- Conference Host, Wild Net, BeeNet Conference _____ _____ _____ .-~~~-. / \ / \ / \ V dot Fast Class / } ----< QWK >----< $FREE > HAYES 288 modem / .-~ \_____/ WILD \_____/ \_____/ \ | } / \ BEE'S/BBS \ / \ ___\.~~-.-~| .-~_ < >----< (209) >----< >----. { O | ` .-~. ; ~-.__ \_____/ \_____/ 826- \_____/ \ ~--~/-|_\| : : .-~ \ / \ 8107 / to \ / / | \~ - - ~ >----< >----< 28.8 >----< / | \ / WILD \_____/ \_____/ RIP \_____ INTERNET ADDRESS \ NET / MSI \ / \ NET / \ BEENET.COM `----< NET >----< BEENET>----< E-MAIL> \_____/ \_____/ \_____/ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 3 Mar 1994 12:52:09 +0100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jean-Marie Van Dyck Subject: Re: Mite resistant bees ??? On Wed, 2 Mar 1994 16:04:01 -0400 John Batson asked ... > For some time now I have been interested in tracheal > mite (and varroa) infestation, as most of us have. Like > others, I have previously purchased putative resistant > packages, and I have already ordered an number of new > packages for the spring of so-called Tabor resistant bees, > plus some Yugo bees that are reputed to be resistant. > > My question is simple: Where is the evidence of > resistance? ... > Can anyone provide some reference to published data? Hello John ! I am a beekeeper in Belgium, french speaking ! My english is very poor ... excuse me ! See here part of a comment I mailed to BEE-L last year (30-APR-1993). I have no reference about this resistance but see the situation here in Europe ... Before the '60s, and till 1966, the acarapis w. mite (TM) got a lot of problems to beekeepers in Belgium, France, UK, Germany, ... The bees died at early spring (falling on the ground in front of the hive, crawling without flying) and we treated several times a year with some acaricide smoke (PK tickets first, Folbex tickets afterwards). In local beekeeping publications, you find different advices to avoid bees lost. In 1962 and 63 : no more advice; In 64 and 66 : recall for treatments as "Don't forget the TM ...!". Since 1967 : absolutely nothing at all ... thus seems no more problem ! In the '70s and after, NOBODY SPEAKED about acarapis mite but I am sure that we have always this mite endemicly because ... 1. I recorded one case indisputable in Feb-84 : one (out of 14) colony died, the others had no problem ! It is the unique (analysed) deadly case I hear for 15-20 years. But acarapis may be responsable of some other winter bees lost. In any case, there is no comparison with the '50s hecatomb ! 2. Each FIRST day of flying in early spring ("first" is important, at the second day the phenomenon decreases strongly) in Jan or Feb or Mar ... While most of the bees are flying before the hive, you see one or two dozen of bees crawling on the ground. I think there aren't mite free ! --- When really you have problem, you see hundreds (thousand?) of bees -- --- crawling on the ground and climbing on the grass without flying! -- --- And at this time, you can do nothing more than see ! --- Actually, in Belgium and maybe in the whole Europe we never hear about this problem. Seems we have got a quasi-resistant bee to tracheal mite !? Resistant Bee ? Now, our beekeepers are using a lot of different bees : the native is brown (apis mellifera mellifera) but I think it is not yet pure for a long time, and actually the feral colonies are killed by the Varroa mite. Last year we got stats about beekeeping in the french part of Belgium. They gived the next results about bee's lines : Use of local native bee (55%), brown bee (22%), buckfast (16%), carnica (5%), caucasica (3%), ligustica (0%) and others (1%) (In my opinion, the only difference between the two first is that the first one -native- doesn't make matter to his bee's line and the second -conservative?- paid attention to that). But never we were hearing about tracheal mite ... Though ... Thus !? [03-Mar-94 12:44 +0100 BE time] ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Jean-Marie Van Dyck medical school - chem physiol dept snail : B.P. 102 Fax : +32 81 72 42 72 B-5000 NAMUR(Belgium) email : jmvandyck@quick.cc.fundp.ac.be ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 3 Mar 1994 10:21:22 +0000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Rick Hough Subject: hello Beltsville?? Thanks to all who pointed out my gender faux paus (and thanks to Adrian for _HIS_ tolerance!) To quote(?) Beavis (or was it Butthead): "sexism sucks - genderlessness rules!!! he he hehehehehe he" Unfortunately, I got *LOTS* of mail on that topic, but none about how to send bees to Beltsville. So, due to the underwhelming response on the *important* :-) part of my last note: I need (still) the address to send bee samples to the Beltsville Bee lab, and instructions on how to prepare the bees for shipment. Thanks Rick Hough, Hamilton, MA USA. rshough@tasc.com P.S. At 10 AM local time, north of Boston, we have about 4-5 inches of brand new snow, the heavy wet kind. Total accumulations of about 12 inches are expected out of this storm. Happy Spring! (can you tell the weather is getting to me???) ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 3 Mar 1994 08:46:55 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jerry J Bromenshenk Subject: Re: Pollen On Wed, 2 Mar 1994, Adam Finkelstein wrote: > I know a commercial beekeeper over > > against the N. Dakota border that grafts all of the queens for a 1200 > > colonie operation, in Montana, in the winter. He puts his breeder > > colonies out the back door of a shed, and starts setting up in Febraury, > > with the first break in winter, he is off and running. > > > Interesting . He must have drones for mating. How does he do this at this time of year? As I remember, he purposely keeps some colonies that are heavy drone producers and saves Drone comb. By pouring on the food, some warming near or in the warehouse, and other tricks, he has drones very early in the season. Obviously, he times the whole operation to take advantage of warm weather for mating. But our MT winters can end abruptly, which he counts on. He selects for strong colonies with large clusters - figures they may take more feed but can get off to a running start in the spring. Then he gives nature a helping hand so that he has his queens when he needs them. But he starts throwing food on his breeders and sets up as early as February so that these colonies are really storming by April. In mid-April, we often get an unseasonably warm break. I always start my colonies about that time and 80 degree days for about a week are not uncommon. Sooo, he shoots for having everything ready to roll by then. Jerry > > Adam > > > -- > =============================================================================== > Adam Finkelstein VDACS Apiary Inspector 116 Reservoir St Harrisonburg VA 22801 > 703-433-1006 (V) 703-434-5607 (Fax) 703-564-4394 (Pager) > adamf@hopper.itc.virginia.edu adamf@vtaix.cc.vt.edu |Bees To Please| > ================================================================================ > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 3 Mar 1994 08:52:40 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jerry J Bromenshenk Subject: Re: keeping Bombus dry You can kill and preserve insects with dry ice - a bit expensive but works wonderfully for preserving color, etc. We carry dry ice because we analyze bees for industrial and agricultural chemicals and can't use any chemicals to kill them that might "contaminate" the sample. So, our bees go from dry ice to a freeze drier. Obviously, this approach is not available to many, but I will bet you can get a small chunck of dry ice to kill and preserve bees until you can get them home and then dry/preserve them. One approach that I have not tried is to dry them in silicon gel in a microwave. Works for flowers. Go easy or you will have cooked bees. Jerry jjbmail@selway.umt.edu On Wed, 2 Mar 1994, La Reine de la Cite' des Phoques (Liz Day) wrote: > When collecting Bombus, I have a problem in keeping them dry. > In summer I find that killing jars sweat inside very quickly. > If the bee gets wet, its fur never looks nice again. > I was using cyanide jars, which usually killed them very fast, > before they had time to get messed up, but I have become too > nervous of cyanide and am trying other chemicals, none of > which work... Lots of people tell me they use ethyl acetate or > n-butyl acetate. But in my experience, these take FOREVER to > actually kill the poor bees. You think they're dead, you mount > them, and then later you discover them moving. UGH. So next > time you leave them in the jar for the hour or more it seems to > take to make sure they're dead, and they get all wet. > > What methods have other people used to solve this problem? > Cyanide is out. > Thank you...! > > Liz Day > > University of Illinois at Chicago > day@eecs.uic.edu > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 3 Mar 1994 12:24:09 -0500 Reply-To: Donovan Bodishbaugh Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Donovan Bodishbaugh Subject: Re: SPRING HAS SPRUNG! In-Reply-To: <199403030918.EAA27409@acpub.duke.edu> Hi All, ANDY NACHBAUR wrote: > Beekeeping is a political incorrect endeavor in the United States today, > and no one in California government is going to spend any money to > investigate problems for such a unpopular group Andy, I'm trying to figure out what you mean. Granted I don't live in the most "PC" part of the country, but I do work in a university environment which is seriously afflicted with the above condition. I've never heard beekeeping characterized in the way you describe. Perhaps you are using politically incorrect in a more literal sense, i.e. the honey subsidy smokescreen from the last election? Surely the public isn't gullible enough to bite on that one, even in California :). Where I live (North Carolina) people can't really throw those stones while the tobacco subsidy lives. I hope this doesn't seem like a divergence from the theme of this forum, but I'm genuinely interested in the problems facing commmercial beekeepers. As a hobbyist, people often ask me questions about the industry that I can't answer. I understand issues like overhead, profit margins, imports, and introduced pests pretty well, but I frequently read allusions to public and/or government prejudice against beekeepers. Is this real or just a general complaint about the inability of govt to do anything useful? When I tell people I'm a beekeeper, the reaction is almost universally positive. At worst, they think it's a little odd. Can someone enlighten me here? Rick Bodishbaugh ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 3 Mar 1994 10:36:30 PST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jane Beckman Subject: Re: keeping Bombus dry I don't recommend ethyl acetate. You really need to leave the insects in the jar for 8 hours or more to assure complete death, at least for hardier specimens. (Dragonflies are the worst, and tend to mess themselves up long before the ethyl acetate knocks them down.) I haven't found anything that beats cyanide, unfortunately. It's rasty, but it does the job, probably because it's so lethal--same qualities that make us all nervous. Good luck on a substitute. --Jane Beckman ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 3 Mar 1994 13:41:55 +0000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Rick Hough Subject: Submitting Samples Dr. Hachiro Shimanuki of the Beltsville Labs has sent me instructions on how to submit samples of bees, brood and comb to his lab. I would be happy to post to the list if there is sufficient interest, or just drop me a line direct to rshough@tasc.com, and I'll forward a copy to you. Rick Hough, Hamilton, MA, USA ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 3 Mar 1994 14:02:25 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Mike Vincent Subject: Miller Feeders I'm trying to construct a few miller type feeders The directions are clear enough except for the waterproofing info. The info I has says to waterproof with paffarin but wouldnt beeswax work? and would there be any inherent problems with beeswax? thanks Mike Vincent matchstic@aol.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 3 Mar 1994 14:09:07 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Dave D. Cawley, a De Leon Socialist" Subject: Re: Miller Feeders > From: Mike Vincent > I'm trying to construct a few miller type feeders > The directions are clear enough except for the waterproofing info. > The info I has says to waterproof with paffarin but wouldnt beeswax work? > and would there be any inherent problems with beeswax? Wouldn't the bees be prone to taking the bees wax and using it elsewhere? ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Dave D. Cawley | Where a social revolution is pending and, University Of Scranton | for whatever reason, is not accomplished, ddc1@jaguar.uofs.edu | reaction is the only alternative. ddc1@SCRANTON | -Daniel De Leon ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 3 Mar 1994 13:17:12 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: William G Lord Subject: Macedonia Beekeeping Fellow Beekeepers: Does anyone have any information on beekeeping in Macedonia? I am speaking of the former Yugoslavian, now Republic of Macedonia. I am curious about races of bees kept, honey sources and yields, pest problems, etc. Bill Lord Louisburg, NC USA -- William G Lord E-Mail : wglord@franklin Internet: wglord@franklin.ces.ncsu.edu Phone : 5663 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 4 Mar 1994 10:16:02 +1200 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Cliff Van Eaton Subject: Re: Equipment Sterilization -Reply Gamma ray irradiation is the ultimate in this regard. In Sydney, Australia, supers (including combs) are routinely sterilised using this process in a commercial irradiation facility used for sterilising medical equipment. The only requirement is that the combs contain no honey (the honey tends to foam, for some reason). No doubt there will be a similar facility somewhere in the Northwest U.S. By the way, I understand that colonies introduced to irradiated supers always perform better, at least for the first season, than their non-irradiated counterparts. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 3 Mar 1994 18:02:00 CST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: tdahms@SLEDGE-PO.WEEG.UIOWA.EDU Subject: March 94 "Buzz':Iowa Beekeepers newsletter Submitted by: Terry Dahms East Central Iowa Beekeepers Assoc. internet: terry-dahms@uiowa.edu ------------------------------------------------------------------- THE BUZZ MARCH, 1994 ------------------------------------------------------------------- A newsletter published monthly as a cooperative effort by The Iowa Department of Agriculture and Land Stewardship and The Iowa Honey Producers Association (IHPA), an affiliate member of the Iowa Horticultural Society. Copy deadline is the 20th of each month. Your ideas, comments and letters are welcomed and encouraged. EDITOR: Bob Cox, State Apiarist, Iowa Dept. of Agriculture, Wallace Building, Des Monies, IA. 50319 Phone: (515) 281-5736. IHPA MEMBERSHIP: Membership dues in the Iowa Honey Producers Assn. are $5.00/year. Send to Gordon Powell, IHPA Treasurer. ------------------------------------------------------------------- STATE APIARIST REPORT On February 11 & 12 the Iowa Honey Producers Association had a booth at the Iowa Fruit & Vegetable Growers Annual Conference. This seemed to be a very profitable promotion of the beekeeping industry in Iowa. One beekeeper manning the booth commented, "This is where we belong. These people are interested in beekeeping." We have had booths set up for other state conventions and not had near as much interest. My thanks go to John Johnson, Paul Goossen, Margaret Hala, Gordon Powell and Walter Clark for manning the booth on Friday and Saturday. The theme of the display was: "Successful Bee Pollination is a Partnership between honey bees and flowers, beekeepers and growers (and weather factors also)." We served cinnamon-flavored, creamed and liquid honey on apple slices and snack crackers. A number of beekeeping information sheets, directories and supply catalogs were given out. I don't think it will be hard to convince the board to do this again next year. I would be interested in talking to any beekeepers in Iowa who rent bees for pollination of crops. The more we can learn about the business, the better job we can do of marketing our bees for pollination. If we do not convince fruit and vegetable growers that insuring a supply of bee pollinators is important, they will not reach yield potentials possible and not many colonies of bees will be rented for pollination in Iowa. This spring let's take advantage of this opportunity to "make a go" of both of these businesses. This is a marriage made in heaven. March is the month to check your apiaries to determine the condition of your colonies. Find out how many are dead, pick up those colonies and take them to your shop. You should check the colonies for weight and feed any that are light. Give them a dose of terramycin powder also for the prevention of Foulbrood disease. The winterkill so far in central Iowa is running about 35 to 40 percent of the colonies taken into winter. Some hobbyists have brought all colonies through the winter alive, while others lost all their colonies. The commercial apiaries ranged from 7 to 57 percent loss. Twelve apiaries in Polk, Story, Tama, and Poweshiek counties were checked February 14th and 16th. If you know how many colonies you have lost this winter so far, I would appreciate knowing that information. Would you please call or send me a note at the State Apiarist's office in Des Moines? UNIVERSITY OF MINNESOTA UPDATE by Dr. Marla Spivak Recently I received the good news that the grant proposal submitted to the Minnesota Agricultural Utilization Research Institute, Pesticide Reduction Options Program (AURI-PRO) was funded. This is a matching funds program, where money granted by AURI must be matched dollar for dollar by, in this case, beekeeping associations. I want to express my sincere thanks to everyone who rallied to come up with the matching funds: Minnesota Honey Producers Assn. promised to contribute $32,000, Minnesota Hobby Beekeeping Assn. $2,000, North Dakota Beekeeping Assn. $8,000, and Wisconsin Honey Producers Assn. $4,000. I'd also like to add a special thanks to Erwin and Zada Glew from Iowa for their private contribution of $150 to the Basil Furgala Scholarship Fund. All beekeepers have been very supportive our research program here. Thanks again. Here is a brief summary of the project I proposed, taken directly from the proposal: Our long-term goal is to promote sustainable beekeeping practices in Minnesota and the upper Midwest by breeding honey bees resistant to two parasitic mites: varroa mites (Varroa jacobsoni) and tracheal mites (Acarapis woodi). The use of resistant bee stocks will reduce the use of pesticides (miticides) within bee colonies, reducing production costs and the risk of contaminating honey and beeswax. The breeding program, already underway at the University of Minnesota, involves selection for bees that exhibit rapid hygienic behavior, a genetically based behavior which is a mechanism of resistance to varroa mites and several bee diseases. Varroa and disease resistant bees will then be tested for resistance to tracheal mites. Finally, field tests will be conducted in collaboration with migratory and non-migratory beekeepers to compare the performance of the mite resistant bee lines with the commercial bee stock currently used by these beekeepers for honey production and overwintering ability. Ultimately, we hope to make mite resistant breeding stock available to beekeepers in Minnesota and the upper Midwest. In other news, we have just completed a professionally-filmed video of queen rearing that will be used to supplement the manual for the Queen Rearing Short Course offered again this spring. The video looks great and we have updated the manual, so the two together make a nice educational packet. Please look for the ad for the video and manual, as well as ads for the Queen Rearing and Beekeeper's Management for Beginners Short Courses in your newsletter. Hope to see you at these courses. HONEY BEE QUEEN REARING SHORT COURSE Come to the St. Paul campus of the University of Minnesota on April 22-23 or May 7-8 and get a hands-on experience learning to rear your own queens. Dr. Marla Spivak will teach the two-day course which costs $40 and includes an 80-page manual and lunch. For more information please call (612) 624-2275. BEWARE OF VARROA MITES THIS YEAR It is a must this year to pay attention to Varroa mites. We found this mite in most areas of the state last year. It is imperative that you check your bees for Varroa early this spring to decide whether to treat before the honey flow. If you have too many mites and wait to treat until after your honey is harvested, you may not have bees to treat in the fall. You need to understand the mite and bee life-cycles to decide when to treat and when you can wait. Female Varroa mites overwinter on the adult bee, sucking bee blood from between the bee's body segments. Varroa mites cannot reproduce during this phase of life. Bee populations in late winter are at a low point for the year. In the early Spring, when bee brood rearing commences, the reproduction of Varroa mites also starts. This time of the year the best way to detect Varroa is to put in mite control strips (APISTAN currently) and count Varroa mites that fall to a sticky board placed on the bottom board. This will give a pretty accurate count of the Varroa mites in the colony, depending on how long the sticky board is left in the hive. The sticky board should be checked after 24 hours. If the temperature is above 50 degrees, a piece of 8-mesh hardware cloth or similar screen should be placed just above the sticky board. The bees may get stuck on the sticky board or clean off the mites if a protective screen is not used. If more than 500 mites are found on sticky board, then the Apistan strips should be left in the hive and treated according to the label. The mated female Varroa mite will move into a brood cell and lay eggs shortly before the cell is capped. At the peak of bee brood rearing in mid-summer about 80% of the Varroa mites are located inside the sealed brood cells. During the summer the best way to assess Varroa mite levels is to sample the brood for mites. There are several methods available. A very simple method is to carry a capping scratcher and remove purple-eyed drone pupae from a brood comb. The large (pin-head size), dark reddish-brown mites will show up on these white bodied bees. About 20 drone pupae can be removed at once by sticking the tines of the scratcher into the drones' thorax (chest) and prying upwards. HINT: If you do not dig deep enough or the pupae are too young, you will only remove the heads. Another method is to remove a whole frame of emerging brood (drone preferably, but worker brood is acceptable), brush or shake off adult bees and place in a white plastic, tall kitchen garbage bag. Store indoors in a warm place for 24 hours. Then shake off newly emerged bees and return comb to the hive. Pour newly emerged bees into a quart jar and do the ether roll test. Be sure to look at the side of the plastic bag for Varroa mites. The other test that can be used is the "ether roll test". A more descriptive name for the test would be the ether "shake, rattle and roll" test. Approximately 300 bees (about a one-inch deep layer of bees) are placed in a quart mayonnaise or canning jar. This can be accomplished by shaking bees from a comb into a cardboard funnel or vacuuming into a jar with a battery operated portable vacuum. Bees for this test should be taken from the brood nest, so be careful to locate the queen before performing this test. Spray a one-second blast of ether (engine starting fluid) into jar, replace lid and shake. Rotate jar and look for the mites stuck on the inside surface of the jar. During hot weather the jar can be left in the sun for 15-20 minutes and mites will fall off the bees with no ether. Also, a 1/2 inch layer of vegetable oil can be placed in the jar before the bees instead of spraying ether. The oil will knock the mites off the bees and make mites visible. To calculate the number of mites that are on the approximately 30,000 adult bees in the hive, multiply times 100. Also remember that in the peak of brood rearing only 20% of the Varroa mites are on the adult bees. To account for this factor, multiply this number by five. When colonies have little or no brood present in the late fall or early spring, this adjustment not made. A level of 10 mites on an ether roll test should trigger immediate treatment. This level is equivalent to 1,000 to 5,000 mites per beehive, depending on the amount of brood present at the time of the test. With fewer than ten mites, treatment should be initiated sometime before October 15th of the same year. Once mites are found in an apiary, a treatment in the Spring and the Fall may be necessary to maintain healthy colonies. PREPARING FOR BEE EMERGENCIES Monday, February 21st Grundy county beekeepers, Fred Terfehn and Tim Laughlin, presented a program on "Controlling Bee Emergencies" to the Grundy Center Volunteer Fire Department. They showed A.I. Root Company's training video "Controlling Bee Emergencies" and a recording of a "911" TV program dealing with a bee emergency. The fire department pictured in the TV program was not prepared for this type of emergency and served as a good lead in for discussing the topic. The program was well received by the 25 firemen in attendance. The videotape can be borrowed from the State Apiarist's Office for a deposit of $40, refunded when the videotape is returned. AUCTION: CIBA Annual Auction April Saturday April 23rd in Cambridge, Iowa, CONSIGNMENTS so far: Arvin Foell - several hundred deep frames, scraped, melted, and bundles in 10's, ca. 100 entrance blocks, stainless holding tank & other items listed later. Bob Mitchell - several 6 5/8 supers with 10 frames of foundation, other items listed later. Leroy Kellogg - ca. 150 - 6 5/8 supers with nine frames of drawn white comb. Contact Margaret Hala for consignments. 1988 Vine Ave., Marshalltown, IA 50158 phone: (515) 752-2981. Consignments will be made in the order received. BEEKEEPER'S MANAGEMENT SHORT COURSE FOR BEGINNERS Department of Entomology and Minnesota Extension Service University of Minnesota March 11 - 12, 1994 This short course teaches the general principles of managing bees in the upper Midwest based on Dr. Basil Furgala's "Horizontal Two Queen" system. The cost of the two-day course is $40 which includes a 55-page manual & lunch. Please call (612) 624-2275. SOUTHWESTERN WISCONSIN BEEKEEPERS MEETING The Southwestern District Spring meeting will be held at the Metz Honey Farm located on U.S. Highway 61 north of Kieler, Wisconsin (just across the river from Dubuque, Iowa). Coffee and rolls furnished. Rolls homemade with honey! Bring a dish to pass around and your own table service for lunch. Agenda: 9:00-9:30 Registration, Coffee and Rolls. 9:00-10:15 Phil May, Economics of a larger producer/packer. 10:15-11:00 Ann Garber, Economics of a smaller producer/packer. 11:00-12:00 Tour of the plant, grading honey for color & moisture. 12:00-1:00 POTLUCK LUNCH 1:00-1:45 Bob Cox, Iowa Dept. of Ag. update on mites, what works, what might work and what doesn't work. 1:45-2:30 Lee Heine, update on Honey Board, A.B.F. and the state 2:30-3:00 Business meeting. Bee yard reports. FOR SALE: Packaged Bees - 2 lbs. with Queen $23.50; 3 lbs. with Queen $26.50; All packed with Apistan strips; To be picked up at Aurora, Iowa April 7th. Contact: Douglas Child (319) 634-3682. FOR SALE: Complete bee operation, approx. 40-60 doubles with bees plus all equipment. Date for sale to be announced later. Call Dave Lambert at (319) 583-8958. FOR SALE: Hive bodies, 6 5/8 honey supers and half depths in good to excellent condition. Also covers, inner covers and bottom boards, etc. Call Dean Hogan in Ft. Madison evenings after 6:00 p.m. or weekends at (319) 372-2310. FOR SALE: Bee hives, singles and doubles and some equipment. Treated with Apistan, Menthol and Terramycin in 1993. Mostly 1993 queens. Bottling business has grown and do not have time to run 1,000 hives. Most equipment in good to excellent condition. Call (608) 568-7601 Days or (608) 748-4706 evenings. FOR SALE: 80 - 6 5/8 honey supers with 9 frames of drawn comb. Standard size - most have frame spacers. $3.75 each. Call Monroe or Janet Neihart near Clarinda (712) 582-3200. FOR SALE: Frames of brood - no frame exchange. $5.50 per frame and $2.00 per frame deposit. Single story hives with mite resistant queens, top & bottom with mouse guards. 10 frames of brood, pollen, and honey on light comb $44.00 each - $10.00 deposit per hive. Call Monroe or Janet Neihart near Clarinda (712) 582-3200. FOR SALE: Walter Kelley equipment at half of new price: Stainless uncapping tank $120; Cappings melter w/stand & 2 separators $75; 2 - 40 gal. stainless tanks $60; 80 plastic division board feeders $1.00 each; Electric uncapping knife $20; 100 queen excluders $2.50; 129 sheets of deep & 560 sheets of wired foundation for 6 5/8 frames; much more misc. Call or write for complete listing: Steve Lockridge, RR 2, Box 29, Corydon, Iowa 50060 (515) 872-1068. FOR SALE: Clover honey in barrels or pails. Call Lapp's Bee Supply Center at 1-800-321-1960. HELP! HELP! DO THE BEEKEEPING INDUSTRY AND SOME YOUNG PERSON A BIG FAVOR. SPONSOR A LOCAL HONEY QUEEN. Over the past several years Cheryl Ann Ilers and Heather Pomeroy have served as Iowa State Honey Queens. They both competed with distinction at the national level. Heather Pomeroy was named American Honey Princess, which means she placed second in national competition. She spent considerable time during the past year promoting beekeeping and honey throughout the nation. So, what did these young women do to help our industry and themselves? To tell it all would take a long time to write and read. Here are some highlights. At little cost to Iowa beekeepers, they obtained many hours of time on TV and radio where they effectively promoted beekeeping and honey. The dollar value of this air time is well into the thousands of dollars. They personally talked "one to one" with thousands of individuals telling them about the value of bees, pollination and uses of honey. They met with well known people and officials such the Governor and Secretary of Agriculture to promote and underscore the importance of supporting our industry. They met with a huge number of groups from young school children to senior citizens, demonstrating the uses of honey and telling about beekeeping. They prepared promotional literature used by an untold number of people. They helped individual beekeepers with promotions in stores and malls where they sell honey. A honey queen is able to gain access and focus attention on beekeeping and honey beyond what is possible for most of us. Commodity organizations have utilized this type of promotion for many years and they continue to do so. They know it costs little and gains them a great deal. It also has great appeal to other young people. Surely, we are all interested in that. With all these benefits, it is a grand opportunity for the young people who become candidates and honey queens. It grants them a special chance to do wholesome work and to strengthen their communication skills, work habits and other life skills. Everybody wins when we help a young person seize the opportunity to become a queen candidate. Please take the initiative yourself or encourage someone else to do so. Help a girl in the 13-16 year age range get started. Simply provide her the opportunity to have experiences so she learns about bees and honey and helps with promotion. She will gain the most when she does things for herself. It is a top flight project for a local association. Provide an opportunity for a candidate to make presentations at your local association meeting. If you need any ideas or help in getting started, contact any member of the State Honey Queen Committee: Paul Goossen (Chairman) (319) 622-6410 Beverly Powell (515) 278-1762 John & Elaine Johnson (515) 232-6094 Arvin Foell (515) 359-3060 Bob Cox (515) 281-5736 W. John Johnson Member State Queen Committee APRIL 1ST DEADLINE FOR APIARY REGISTRATION The deadline for sending beeyard registration forms to the State Apiarist's office is April 1st. A listing of apiary locations is sent to each county ASCS office so that anyone applying pesticides that are toxic to bees can notify beekeepers within two miles. I believe it is very important that every beekeeper register their apiaries. The reasons are two-fold. 1.) When you are notified of a toxic spray in advance you have the option of moving or covering colonies to protect them from poisoning. 2.) When a large number of beekeepers register their apiaries this sends a message to the pesticide applicators and land owners that we are paying attention to our bees and care enough to register. I believe, the end result is that the applicators are more careful around our bees. Please send registration forms to the State Apiarists Office by April 1st. If we don't register, I'm afraid we will start seeing a great deal more bee poisoning in the future. CALENDAR OF EVENTS MARCH 11 Southwest Iowa Honey Producers Meeting at 59-er North of Harlan on U.S. Hwy. 59. 5:30 p.m. Social Hour and 6:30 Dinner followed by program and business mtg. 12 IHPA Board Meeting 1:00 p.m. at Royal Cafe in Huxley. 14 Eastcentral Iowa Beekeepers Assn. Meeting 7:00 p.m. at Montgomery Hall, Johnson County Fairgrounds, Iowa City. 19 Central Iowa Beekeepers Assn. Meeting. 5:30 p.m. Buffet dinner. 6:30 p.m. Meeting (Election of Officers). Royal Cafe in Huxley. DIRECTIONS: Take Hwy. 210 exit from I-35 and go west to U.S. Hwy. 69. Go north to Huxley one mile, then through town to the shopping center on the east side of the highway. 19 & 20 "A Honey of a Weekend" - Des Moines Botanical Center, 909 East River Drive, Des Moines. Come and enjoy a foretaste of spring, bee crafts, bee stories and songs, a bee herb display, and other honey bee related activities for all ages, all under the dome. OPEN: 10:00 a.m. to 5:00 p.m. 26 Southwest Wisconsin Honey Producers Meeting. 9:00 a.m.- 3:00 p.m. Metz Honey Farm. Hwy 61 North of Kieler, WI (just across the river from Dubuque, Iowa). See program in article on page 5. A HONEY OF A VERSE "The judgements of the LORD are ... sweeter than honey" (Psalm 19) ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 3 Mar 1994 20:25:29 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jane Power Subject: Re: Mean Bees I'm new at this soooo....if I have an ill-tempered monarch and requeen, and I get another ill-tempered monarch should I requeen again? It seems very disruptive, and yet, mean queens are undesirable. The season in Northern Ontario is short and I wonder if I put them in a frequent state of new queenhood, queening?, I worry for my honey or should I? Jane Power ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 4 Mar 1994 12:29:11 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: David Taylor RMIT Bundoora Subject: Bee Feeding Gary S. Reuter wrote informatively on bee feeding patties: > > > > Does anyone have a pollen substitute recipe they would like to share? > > > > >Pollen Sub should be a mixture of soy flour, dried milk and brewers yeast. I >get it from a supplier but make sure it includes all of the ingredients. Bees >will take saw dust if nothing else is around so don't assume it is good just >because they eat it. > >I prefer to trap some pollen from the year before and add 20% with the purchase >pollen sub mixed with heavy sugar syrup to make cookie dough. Make patties... **Rest of message deleted** This question may betray my lack of experience, but I had the idea (gained from reading books) that the bees process nectar and pollen separately. The nectar comes into the hive in forager's stomachs, while the pollen comes in on leg pouches. Once in the hive, the different foods are treated and stored separately, except when the pollen is mixed with small amounts of honey to make bee-bread. I'm wondering how the bees deal with mixed sugar syrup and pollen/pollen sub? Perhaps the point is that they are eating it, not storing it? David David Taylor____Royal Melbourne Institute of Technology Computer Centre Plenty Road____Bundoora____Victoria____3083____Australia____(03)4682621 "We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars" - Oscar Wilde ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 3 Mar 1994 21:11:05 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jean-Pierre Chapleau <73642.244@COMPUSERVE.COM> Subject: FEEDING BEES POLLEN SUBSTITUTES I found the best and simplest pollen substitute is plain brewer's yeast with 5% to 20% natural pollen. The bees love it and they finish it all up even if natural pollen is coming in. It does not drye out in the hive. Beekeepers in my area found that the bees often reject substitutes with soy flour. Brewer's yeast for animal feed is ok. It is very cheap. Clarence Wenner from Wenner Honey Farm, where I worked back in the 70's, decided to stick to this simple recipe after trying many mixes. Substitutes are substitutes though. They are not as good as pollen. I have noticed that they are effective at stimulating brood rearing but I think that the bees raised on substitutes are not as healthy as bees raised on the natural stuff. I recommand not to abuse of pollen substitutes. I found that taking the bees out of the wintering building a little later and feeding substitute just once or at the very most twice is just as good as taking them out early and force them to brood up early, putting them in a stress situation when the weather turns cold. This first option also represents less work and less costs for the beekeeper. Since I am new on this forum, let me paste in this information to introduce myself: I am a bee breeder living in the Appalachian mountains in Quebec. Quebec is a mostly french speaking province in Canada. I have a wife and tree children from 13 to 18 years old. I was born in 1950. I graduated in french linguistics at Laval University in Quebec (strange path to beekeeping!) I operate a 400-450 colonies apiary with around 1300 mating nucs for commercial queen production during the summer. We produce between 4000 to 6000 queens a year. Our very short producing season extends from May until the beginning of September. I got my first hives back in 1975 and realy got into the bee business in 1977. As a beekeeper I belong to a special professionnal beekeepers club (Club API). This club is intended to help improve our individual productivity and profitability through the exchange of technical information. The club hires a technicien who has the mandate to assist the members technically speaking and to help with the circulation of the information among them. I am presently actively involved in our beekeeping community as President of the Federation des Apiculteurs du Quebec and as Vice-president of the Canadian Honey Council. I am also involved in bee journalism. I spent quite a bit of time in the past as a bee inspector and as a beekeeping teacher. In the late 70s I had a good work experience with Wenner Honey Farm, California bee breeders. ***************************************************************** Jean-Pierre Chapleau phone: (819)828-3396 1282, rang 8, fax: (819)828-2248 Saint-Adrien de Ham, QUEBEC Canada, J0A 1C0 73642.244@compuserve.com ***************************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 3 Mar 1994 21:40:01 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jane Power Subject: Re: FEEDING BEES POLLEN SUBSTITUTES Hello Jean-Pierre! Please excuse my ignorance, but do you have a separate wintering building? I bee in Northern Ontario and have overwintered successfully, but as my bee inspector points out, the same system of overwintering can have very different results from year to year. thanks. Jane Power (not the powers that be but the power that bees!) ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 4 Mar 1994 15:43:38 +1200 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Cliff Van Eaton Subject: Pest/disease free bees... -Reply If you have any anecdotal evidence from visiting New Zealand beekeepers that New Zealand bees have 1) tracheal mite, 2) varroa, 3) European foulbrood, 4) tropilaelaps, 5) braula, I would be very interested in hearing more. Otherwise, I think you owe an apology to the New Zealand beekeeping industry, via BEE-L, if you are insinuating otherwise. As to American foulbrood, while it is true that New Zealand has its fair share of this disease, our industry has choosen what I believe is the very sensible approach of controlling its spread by "search and destroy" methods, not through the use of chemicals. I don't want to enter into a debate on the pros and cons of this drug-free AFB control in this forum, but from my experience, both in NZ and in North America, one often over-looked advantage of this approach is that the thorough examination of hives which is required tends to also lead to better over-all hive management, at least in commercial outfits. What can be said without reservation, however, is that the NZ approach has resulted in one of the best apiary registration and inspection systems found anywhere. Beekeepers here are required by law to return a yearly inspection statement, giving full details of every apiary site (including topo map grid references), and the findings of their AFB inspections. The industry also levies its members to pay for an independently-administered AFB control programme. Although government personnel carry out programme services under contract to the industry, absolutely no government funding is provided. Upwards of 10% of all registered apiaries in the country are inspected each year under that programme. This is not to say, of course, that we don't have our share of beekeepers with AFB problems; beekeepers who cause ecomonic damage to their fellow beekeepers, and who often require counselling by government apiculturalists (which has to be paid for by the industry itself). Just recently, however, the NZ Beekeepers Association has been given the opportunity, under a new piece of government legislation (called the Biosecurity Act), to write its own legally-binding procedures for the control of American foulbrood (since it is, of course, their disease). The legislation will allow for the collecting of levies to pay for an AFB control programme, and should provide, in the system that the beekeepers are proposing, sufficent financial incentives (in the form of lower levies) for beekeepers who actually do a good job in their AFB control. Under that same system, the other type of beekeeper may soon find it economically quite difficult to carry on. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 3 Mar 1994 21:26:03 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "La Reine de la Cite' des Phoques (Liz Day)" Subject: Re: keeping Bombus dry . ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 3 Mar 1994 21:59:26 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "La Reine de la Cite' des Phoques (Liz Day)" Subject: more on keeping Bombus dry Thank you all for your ideas. I am glad to see I'm not the only one for whom ethyl acetate seemed to take ages. Has anyone ever tried Raid, or any kind of insecticide? Aren't there some sorts that are especially deadly to bees? Although I'm not sure how you'd get them into the bottle... I will try all these methods with the paper towels and tissues this coming season. The cooler/freezing works, but usually wherever I am in the field is a good half hour's walk from the closest place one could drag a cooler. (Yes, I know that's what grad students are for, but there's only one of me! :-) ) Liz Day University of Illinois at Chicago day@eecs.uic.edu ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 3 Mar 1994 22:12:34 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "La Reine de la Cite' des Phoques (Liz Day)" Subject: more on dry Bombus In fact this is a big part of the problem. I have found that out in the field (literally a field, like a prairie) there often is no shade for some distance, I and my hands are hot and sweaty, there is no level place to put anything nor anywhere to store it except hanging from your body where it bangs around as you walk and I don't have to go very far before it is impractical to return to my car. This doesn't bother but it doesn't sound like good conditions under which to collect oodles of specimens and expect to get them home in decent shape. Is there some vital piece of equipment other people are using to solve these problems? Liz Day University of Illinois at Chicago day@eecs.uic.edu ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 3 Mar 1994 14:52:16 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: William G Lord Subject: PC Beekeeping In reference to Donovan Bodishbaugh's query about Andy Nachbaur's comments, I think I can shed some light. I think the first problem we encounter is the fact that beekeeping is not taken seriously by much of anyone except beekeepers. I saw yet another pun-ridden piece on bees on the CBS Evening News last week that reinforced my conviction that journalists simply find it impossible to write an objective piece on bees or beekeeping, they love to load it up with puns. Does this imply disrespect? Secondly, our major commodity is something that Americans can clearly live without, or per capita consumption would be much higher that one pound per person. Look at the clout of the sugar producers, and relate it to sugar consumption (over 100 pounds per person per year). Is there a connection here? (Granted the sugar people have used Cuba and the rred threat very effectively to maintain their program). Thirdly, the AHPA and Honey Producers really push the pollination story to its limits (and I have helped in the popular press), but I don't know if this carries any credibility with the public. Once you get past stings and honey, it seems much of the public and politicians lose the train of thought. Beekeepers have been cast as bearers of botulism (and sudden infant death syndrome), welfare junkies living on honey loan programs, and now, accomplices to the pending invasion of killer bees. We just don't get no respect (sic), do we? Bill Lord Louisburg, NC -- William G Lord E-Mail : wglord@franklin Internet: wglord@franklin.ces.ncsu.edu Phone : ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 4 Mar 1994 07:09:48 PST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Adrian Wenner Subject: Re: more on keeping Bombus dry >Thank you all for your ideas. I am glad to see I'm not the only >one for whom ethyl acetate seemed to take ages. >Has anyone ever tried Raid, or any kind of insecticide? See my private message just sent to you. Raid is quite lousy for surely killing in a short time. Adrian *************************************************************** * Adrian Wenner E-Mail wenner@lifesci.lscf.ucsb.edu * * Department of Biology Office Phone (805) 893-2838 * * University of California Lab Phone (805) 893-2838 * * Santa Barbara, CA 93106 FAX (805) 893-4724 * *************************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 4 Mar 1994 09:12:22 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jerry J Bromenshenk Subject: Re: more on keeping Bombus dry Liz: Raid!!!! Ugh!!! I for one don't want to handle samples soaked in organic insecticides. If you must use one of these, go for one of the solid strips imprenated with the chemical and separate the bees from it - any porous barrier will work. In the U.S., the old Vapona strips were extremely lethal to bees. I once lost a whole colony after placing a super on it. The super had been stored in a closet that someone (unknown to me) decided to keep free of bugs with a Vapona strip. We aired the super for several days, but the stuff apparently went into the wax. In the U.S., I think this product has been pulled or re-formulated. But there are other similar products that use a semi-solid strip impregnated with lethal chemicals. Jerry jjbmail@selway.umt.edu ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 4 Mar 1994 16:59:18 PST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Dave Pehling Organization: WSU CAHE USER Subject: 4H Beekeeping Essay Contest Does anyone have any information on this? We have a 4H member who wants to give it a try but we did not receive any info about it in our office. Thanks in advance for your help! Cheers, Dave Pehling =========================================== | W.S.U./SNOHOMISH CO. COOPERATIVE EXTENSION | | 600 128TH ST. S.E. | | EVERETT, WA. 98208 | |PHONE - (206)338-2400 | |FAX - (206)338-3994 | |INTERNET CE6431@WSUVM1.CSC.WSU.EDU | ============================================ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 4 Mar 1994 15:12:00 GMT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: ANDY NACHBAUR Subject: Pest/disease free bees... -Reply Cliff Van Eaton refer#: None wrote UMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM8 \^[Subject: Pest/disease free bees... -Reply \^[Date: Fri, 4 Mar 1994 15:43:38 +1200 \^[ \^[If you have any anecdotal evidence from visiting New Zealand \^[beekeepers that New Zealand bees have 1) tracheal mite, 2) \^[varroa, 3) European foulbrood, 4) tropilaelaps, 5) braula, I \^[would be very interested in hearing more. Otherwise, I think you \^[owe an apology to the New Zealand beekeeping industry, via BEE-L, \^[if you are insinuating otherwise. \^[ \^[As to American foulbrood, while it is true that New Zealand has \^[its fair share of this disease, our industry has choosen what I \^[believe is the very sensible approach of controlling its spread \^[by "search and destroy" methods, not through the use of \^[chemicals. I don't want to enter into a debate on the pros and \^[cons of this drug-free AFB control in this forum, but from my \^[experience, both in NZ and in North America, one often \^[over-looked advantage of this approach is that the thorough \^[examination of hives which is required tends to also lead to \^[better over-all hive management, at least in commercial outfits. \^[ \^[What can be said without reservation, however, is that the NZ \^[approach has resulted in one of the best apiary registration and \^[inspection systems found anywhere. Beekeepers here are required \^[by law to return a yearly inspection statement, giving full \^[details of every apiary site (including topo map grid \^[references), and the findings of their AFB inspections. The \^[industry also levies its members to pay for an \^[independently-administered AFB control programme. Although \^[government personnel carry out programme services under contract \^[to the industry, absolutely no government funding is provided. \^[Upwards of 10% of all registered apiaries in the country are \^[inspected each year under that programme. \^[ \^[This is not to say, of course, that we don't have our share of \^[beekeepers with AFB problems; beekeepers who cause ecomonic \^[damage to their fellow beekeepers, and who often require \^[counselling by government apiculturalists (which has to be paid \^[for by the industry itself). \^[ \^[Just recently, however, the NZ Beekeepers Association has been \^[given the opportunity, under a new piece of government \^[legislation (called the Biosecurity Act), to write its own \^[legally-binding procedures for the control of American foulbrood \^[(since it is, of course, their disease). \^[ \^[The legislation will allow for the collecting of levies to pay \^[for an AFB control programme, and should provide, in the system \^[that the beekeepers are proposing, sufficent financial incentives \^[(in the form of lower levies) for beekeepers who actually do a \^[good job in their AFB control. Under that same system, the other \^[type of beekeeper may soon find it economically quite difficult \^[to carry on. TMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM> Mr. Van Eaton, Don't hold your breath waiting for any apology from me or for that matter any kind of effort on my part to allow NZ bee's into the lucrative United States market. I could care less about your governments effort to regulate its beekeepers or promote its regulatory efforts. This tread was started by someone who asked a question on selling NZ bees in the US. I gave to him my own opinion as to what is necessary and what is not. Nothing has been presented by him or you that would make me want to place an order for NZ bees or queens. It may be that you are only looking to justify your own job or sell your regulatory schemes, which you say are the greatest. I wish you luck in that endeavor, but you are going to have a hard time making a living with it without tax payers funds... I have supported myself for 40 years keeping bees without any stock from NZ. I am the one whom you are going to have to sell, if you want my US money for your queens, distasteful as that may be to you. I am a beekeeper NOT not a regulatory or government employee, but I am sure they would buy few... __ __ / \ \^+^/ / \ Andy Nachbaur, TOB \ \(O O)/ / Wild Bee's BBS \ \\_// //-->> BEENET.COM -----------------oOO--Y--OOo------------------------------------ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 4 Mar 1994 21:37:18 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Jim G. Shoemaker" Subject: Re: data In-Reply-To: <9403022106.AA08205@ozarks.sgcl.lib.mo.us> Hello John: I too have some reservation about the mite-resistant bees, especially the Tabor bees. I read the account of the development of this strain in the American Bee Journal, i've forgotten just when but must have been three or four years ago. The approach was to infect a few colonies with mites and when some survived, these were classed mite residtant. As I remember only a couple survived and queens mothers from these colonies then produced mite-resistant stock. I hope the claim is true and indeed it may be, but, my confinence level in this short-term approach is low. Seem to be having some trouble with our local Internet contact so best cut it off. Hope you get other response to your posting. Jim Shoemaker 5160 S. Western Brookline, MO 65619 jshoemak@ozarks.sgcl.lib.mo.us ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 5 Mar 1994 10:38:51 CST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Janko Bozic Subject: Beekeeping in Macedonia Dear Bill Lord, I don't have any new information about beekeeping in Macedonia. One of my friend visited Macedonia a few years ago. He told me how they were doing there. I'm sure, that have not changed a lot to now. They keep bees in LR and also in DB hives. As you may know, whole Balkan and Panonic valley is an areal of Carniolan bee - A. m. carnica. I wrote something about Carniolan bee a week ago. There is a big variation in Carniolan bee between different parts of the areal. Typical Carniolan bee was described from Alps valleys of Slovenia, one century ago that was part of Austria and part of county called Carniola. Down in Macedonia bees are not so grey. They are dark or brown. Some call this ecotype as Macedonian bee. My friend told me that they have also a big variation inside Macedonia. They have areas with hot and dry Mediterranean climate and areas with cold mountain climate. That also defines the appearance of forage during the year. In the valleys, like Skopje valley, they have dry summer without no forage. Foraging periods are spring and fall. Flora in Macedonia is exotic. There are a lot of pastures, which are not cultivated intensively. There is also Robinia pseudoaccacia and, in last years, they planted Eucalyptus tree. There honey from liveds and mountains have to be very aromatic and something unique. Bee diseases. They've got Varroa mites from Bulgaria perhaps 20 years ago. They were one of the first regions in former Yugoslavia with Varroa mites. For other diseases I'm not sure. Tracheal mites usually don't cause a problem in Carniolan bees. That infection is very rear. More frequent is perhaps full brood and chalk brood. Up to date information have to be get from Macedonia. I can ask back in Slovenia if someone have any address from beekeepers in Macedonia. Let me know if you are need that address. Janko ======================================================= Janko Bozic OFFICE: Department of Zoology & Physiology Louisiana State University _ _________ Baton Rouge, LA 70803 /_\_____/_ tel. 504 388 1769 //* \O O/ *\ fax. 504 388 1763 / *** \O/ *** / ** / \ ** HOME: / * _._ * 1222 Jim Taylor No.9 \.../ Baton Rouge LA 70820 \I/ tel. 504 767 4681 l BITNNET: ZOBOZI@LSUVM INTERNET: ZOBOZI@LSUVM.SNCC.LSU.EDU ======================================================= ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 5 Mar 1994 09:37:14 +0000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Rick Hough Subject: RE>Re: Mean Bees Jane Power writes: >I'm new at this soooo....if I have an ill-tempered monarch and requeen, and >I get another ill-tempered monarch should I requeen again? It seems very >disruptive, and yet, mean queens are undesirable. The season in Northern >Ontario is short and I wonder if I put them in a frequent state of new >queenhood, queening?, I worry for my honey or should I? Jane Power This is just one beekeeper's opinion, (I'm sure other opinions abound!), but here goes anyway - Requeening is not so disruptive as it seems - you probably only loose about a week of brood production. The real issue is how quickly are you able to determine if the new queen is ill-tempered? You need to wait for a significant percentage of the population to be the progeny of the new queen before you can make that evaluation. So I would say a minimum of six weeks, and longer would be better. Sooo, you *could* do it twice a season, if warranted - once in the spring, and once in the fall. I dislike fall requeening because you don't have much time to recover if the new queen doesn't "take" for some reason. Then again, spring requeening can impact your honey production slightly - life is a compromise.... Should Jane worry for her honey? I don't think so, as the "state of new queenhood" will be relatively infrequent (from the bees perspective). Rick Hough, Hamilton, MA, USA ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 5 Mar 1994 21:00:30 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Diane Kovacs Subject: U.S. Flood Conference and Workshop This announcement is being posted to Agriculture and Environmental discussion groups that we thought might have interest in the topic. PLEASE DISTRIBUTE FREELY: Midwestern U.S. Flood Conference and Workshop: Announcement. OCCUPATIONAL AND ENVIRONMENTAL HEALTH AND SAFETY ISSUES: THE LEGACY OF THE FLOOD OF '93. A WORKING CONFERENCE AND ELECTRONIC NETWORK. St. Louis, Missouri Monday - Wednesday, April 11 - 13, 1994 SUMMARY: This workshop will focus on preventing illness and injury from the flood of '93. The meeting will emphasize communication and coordination among Local, State, and Federal government, and public and private agencies throughout the Midwest. The workshop will establish an information clearinghouse and resource center. Sponsored by: The Occupational Health and Safety Center, University of Illinois at Chicago and by: The Federal Office of Rural Health Policy Iowa State University Extension Kent State University The National Farm Medicine Center, Marshfield, Wisconsin The National Institute for Occupational Safety and Health University Extension - University of Missouri System The University of Iowa, Center for Agricultural Disease & Injury Research, Education, and Prevention (CADIREP) University of Wisconsin - Madison THE LEGACY: The Midwest Flood of '93 stretched from Minnesota to Missouri, from North Dakota to Illinois. Damage is not limited to the current, known losses in land, buildings, equipment, and productivity. The flood's consequences will extend well into the summer of '94, as will the challenges to service providers. Renewed flooding this spring is a certainty, and will bring further disruption to lives, homes and businesses, in towns and farming communities. Some experts anticipate that flood-affected states may require a full five years to recover from the devastation. CALL TO ACTION: In November of '93, the National Institute for Occupational Safety and Health (NIOSH) co-sponsored a multi-state flood response symposium and workshop at the University of Iowa (CADIREP). The workshop focused on flood related threats from stress, environmental exposures and safety hazards. The workshop identified the need to improve communication between service providers, and to establish a peer-reviewed, information clearinghouse and resource center. A WORKING CONFERENCE AND ELECTRONIC NETWORK: This working conference is a Call to Action. It is intended to assist Public Health, Agricultural Extension Service, Federal, State and Local Government, and private and public organizations to evaluate responses to the flood, and to prepare for renewed flooding in 1994. Attendees will participate in developing integrated service teams within their states, as well as a cooperative network for sharing information and expertise throughout the affected region. An electronic flood response network will be established to promote and extend working relationships and communication among all attendees. While this working conference will focus on the consequences of the flooding and saturation and on preparation for renewed flooding this spring, interested participants from regions beyond the flood-affected states are encouraged to attend. ************ W O R K S H O P A G E N D A ************ MONDAY, APRIL 11, 1994: 8:00 Registration: Continental Breakfast. 8:30 Welcome and Call to Action. Report from the University of Iowa (CADIREP) Flood Response Workshop: continuing and extending the flood response agenda. 10:00 Responding to the Call: Promoting Federal, State, and Local Communication and Cooperation. 12:00 Luncheon and Flood Preview Slide Presentation. 1:00 Keynote Address: Melvin Myers, Special Assistant to the Director, National Institute for Occupational Safety and Health. 2:15 Tour: Mississippi and Missouri Flood Plain. 5:30 Dinner on your own. 7:30 Reception. TUESDAY, APRIL 12, 1994: 8:30 Plenary Session: An Overview of the Experiences of State and Local Disaster Response Efforts. 10:15 Issues Workshops: Creating an Information Exchange Between Providers of Flood-related Services. 12:00 Luncheon. 1:00 Concurrent Workshops: - Promoting Federal Interagency Cooperation: Forming an Integrated Help-line; - Teamwork: Developing Integrated State Responses. 3:00 Plenary Session: Reporting Back. 6:00 Dinner on your own. WEDNESDAY, APRIL 13, 1994: 8:30 Establishing a Flood Response Network & Information Clearinghouse: - Information dissemination; - Peer review; - Continuing update and exchange; - Expanded research and surveillance. 10:15 Putting it together: Prevention and Management for '94 - Monitor and coordinate existing services; - Identify new or unusual hazards and needed additional services and training; - Coordinate better prevention, intervention, and evaluation services. Concurrent state-by-state & federal workshops. 11:30 Putting it together (continued): Concurrent issues workshops. 12:30 Working Box Lunch and Closing Plenary Session: Preventing illness & injury and improving flood response services. 2:30 Adjourn. ************ Print this Registration Form ************ OCCUPATIONAL AND ENVIRONMENTAL HEALTH AND SAFETY ISSUES: THE LEGACY OF THE FLOOD OF '93. Registration Form Registration Deadline: April 4, 1994 NAME: ____________________________________________________________ AGENCY: ____________________________________________________________ MAILING ADDRESS: ____________________________________________________________ CITY: _______________________ STATE: ___________ ZIP: ________ TELEPHONE: _______________________ FAX: _____________________________ INTERNET, BITNET or other E-MAIL ADDRESS: _____________________________ REGISTRATION FEE: Registration for the conference is $100. This fee covers expenses for workshop materials, meeting rooms, continental breakfast, luncheon, reception, and flood plain tour. Please make checks payable to The University of Illinois. Mail registration form and check to: The University of Illinois at Chicago Occupational Health and Safety Center (M/C 922) School of Public Health 2121 West Taylor Street, Room 216 Chicago, Illinois 60612 Tel: 312-413-0459 Registrations will be accepted by FAX: 312-413-7369 METHOD OF PAYMENT (circle one): MasterCard Visa Discover ACCOUNT #: ____________________________________________________________ EXPIRATION DATE: ______________________________________________________ SIGNATURE: ____________________________________________________________ The FAX registration deadline is April 4, 1994. PLEASE NOTE: Registration by reply e-mail is not possible at this time. ********* Hotel Information: Print for your reference. ********* OCCUPATIONAL AND ENVIRONMENTAL HEALTH AND SAFETY ISSUES: THE LEGACY OF THE FLOOD OF '93. St. Louis, Missouri Monday - Wednesday, April 11 - 13, 1994 Hotel Information A limited number of rooms will be held until: March 25, 1994 THE SHERATON - WEST PORT INN (SWISS CHALET) 191 West Port Plaza St. Louis, Missouri 800-822-3535, 314-878-1500 HOTEL RESERVATIONS: Rooms are $79 per night. (Federal employees please ask for GSA rate.) Please contact the hotel directly at the number listed above. Let them know that you will be attending the "Flood of '93 Conference." AIRPORT SHUTTLE: A complimentary shuttle is available to and from the St. Louis airport. At the baggage level in the airport, there is courtesy telephone for all the St. Louis area hotels. Select the button for the Sheraton West Port Inn. Ask for the shuttle and tell the Sheraton operator how many people are in your party. The operator will tell you where to wait and will inform the shuttle bus driver to look for you. The shuttle runs approximately every thirty minutes. DRIVING DIRECTIONS: From I-70 on the west side of St. Louis near Lambert International Airport, turn South onto I-270. From I-64 on the west side of St. Louis, turn North onto I-270. Travel **approximately** 3 miles to Exit 16. Take the exit for Page Avenue - Eastbound. Exit Page Avenue at Lackland Avenue and Westport. This exit is **approximately** one-half mile from I-270. Turn Right onto Lackland Avenue. Then turn right onto West Port Plaza. Watch for the hotel signs. The address is 191 West Port Plaza. Free parking is available in Garage A. ************ W O R K S H O P C O N T A C T S ************ For additional information, questions, or comments, please contact: REGISTRATION INFORMATION: Ernestine Love, Registrar The University of Illinois at Chicago Occupational Health and Safety Center (M/C 922) School of Public Health 2121 West Taylor Street, Room 216 Chicago, Illinois 60612 Tel: 312-413-0459 PROGRAM AND TECHNICAL INFORMATION: ILLINOIS: Leslie Nickels, Dir. of Continuing Education The University of Illinois at Chicago Occupational Health and Safety Center (M/C 922) School of Public Health 2121 West Taylor Street, Room 216 Chicago, Illinois 60612 Tel: 312-413-1113 Internet: u64852@uicvm.uic.edu IOWA: Julie Sessions, Program Assistant The Institute of Agricultural Medicine and Occupational Health Center for Agricultural Disease & Injury Research, Education, and Prevention (CADIREP) Department of Preventive Medicine The University of Iowa 114 - AMRF, Oakdale Campus Iowa City, Iowa 52242 - 5000 Tel: 319-335-4204 Internet: sessions@amrf-po.pmeh.uiowa.edu MISSOURI: David E. Baker, Assistant Program Director University of Missouri - Columbia 2-70 Agriculture Building Columbia, Missouri 65211 Tel: 314-882-6385 Internet: aedaveb@muccmail.missouri.edu WISCONSIN: Larry J. Chapman, Associate Scientist Department of Agricultural Engineering University of Wisconsin - Madison 460 Henry Mall Madison, Wisconsin 53706 Tel: 608-262-3310 Internet: lchapman@vms.macc.wisc.edu ALL OTHER STATES, please contact: Leslie Nickels, Dir. of Continuing Education The University of Illinois at Chicago Occupational Health and Safety Center (M/C 922) School of Public Health 2121 West Taylor Street, Room 216 Chicago, Illinois 60612 Tel: 312-413-1113 Internet: u64852@uicvm.uic.edu ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 6 Mar 1994 15:20:30 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jerry J Bromenshenk Subject: Re: RE>Re: Mean Bees Rick responded to Jane's question about re-queening. In Montana, our most of our migratory beekeepers re-queen every year, usually in the spring. Those who don't migrate generally re-queen once every two years. As Rick pointed out, introduction of a new queen shouldn't cause too much disruption, unless they reject the new queen. Then you will have to try again. References such as the Hive and the Honey Bee cover all of the pros and cons of re-queening using various methods of introduction. However, your concern brought to mind a somewhat different observation. Whereas re-queening in the spring or fall should not cause too much disturbance, allowing a colony to go queenless and then to count on the bees to replace the queen can create a fair amount of drop-out of brood production and according to our field observations and model simulations can have a much greater impact on honey production. The reason is fairly simple. If you kill and replace a queen, hopefully the period during which no eggs are being produced is limited to a few days. If the old queen is lost (she dies, gets squashed, etc.) and the bees have to replace her, the down period may be several weeks. Assuming the bees weren't taking steps to replace the queen before she quit laying or was lost, it will take them about 12-14 days to produce a replacement, who must then mate, and later go to work laying-eggs. Minimally, there will be a two week period with no eggs. However, it is unlikely that a new queen will mate and start laying on the same day that she emerges, so realistically, it may be about three weeks before any new eggs are produced --- and --- another three weeks before any new forager bees emerge. Depending on whether the "lost" queen was laying well to the end or maybe not laying much at all, the period of time over which no new bees (of any numbers) could range from 3-6 weeks. Assuming that a poor queen may lay 1000 eggs per day, a normal queen closer to 2000, and a really good queen upwards of 3000 eggs per day (during peak egg-laying periods), the effect on overall population size can be substantial. Take home message, queen replacement should not be too disruptive and can be beneficial in terms of maintaining colonies with vigorous queens. Letting the bees do it extracts a much greater penalty. Depending on the time of year, the impact can be substantial, especially is the old queen is lost at a time when the colony is striving to increase its population size in anticipation of the coming growing season. Losses of queens after the major honey flow has been collected may not be a problem, if the bees have enough time to replace the queen before going into winter. Jerry Bromenshenk University of MT jjbmail@selway.umt.edu ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 6 Mar 1994 17:42:40 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jason Kosarka Subject: Re: PC Beekeeping Signoff Jskosark ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Mar 1994 15:46:48 +1200 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Cliff Van Eaton Subject: Pest/disease free bees... -Reply -Reply Personally I could care less about whether NZ queens are allowed into the US or not, and it should have been very obvious to you (and other readers) that my comments were directed towards your insinuations about NZ's honey bee disease status, not whether NZ queens should be allowed into your country. As for your remarks about me "justifying my job" and our organisation not being able to survive without taxpayer support, I would suggest very strongly that you investigate the facts before popping off on an international bulletin board about something you obviously don't know very much about. I thought BEE-L was for the sharing of factual information, not for the expression of uninformed and erroneous opinion. Oh, and by the way, in case you think this fight is between yourself and a Kiwi, you're wrong. I was born and raised in North America, and only came to NZ after working with bees for a number of years in British Columbia. I'm quite aware of both the climate of regulation and government support for beekeeping in the US, and the overall state of the industry in both the US and Canada. You may have had a "raw deal" from disease control regulation in the US in the past decade, but that doesn't necessarily mean that it's the same everywhere in the beekeeping world. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Mar 1994 09:13:11 +0200 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Zigurds Vaivods Subject: Pheromones ? What do }iyou think about synthetic bee pheromones? Is it efficiency a fairy tale? Are they really used ? I have no experience and don't know whether it is necessary to test it. AlmaBerzonis ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Mar 1994 22:58:00 +1300 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: NICKW@WAIKATO.AC.NZ Subject: Re-queening... Introducing a new queen (or ripe cell for that matter) into a small unit made up on top of the main hive: The disruption to brood rearing caused by requeening can be minimised by making up a 'top' or 'split' (as they are called here in NZ, anyway) and introducing the cell or queen into that. Only after she is accepted and laying do you then unite the top to the main colony. A top is really nothing more than a nucleus colony in a full sized box sitting on top of the main colony. A division board separates them, and a slot (say, 50mm/2 in wide) in the top rim of the division board acts as an entrance for the (smaller) top unit. It doesn't seem to matter terribly whether this faces the same way as the main hive entrance or not. You can make up the top and put the new queen (in cage with candy, naturally) directly in, or you can make it up a few days before. To make it up, you put two or three frames of brood, in all stages of development, two more frames with extra bees and two frames of honey from the main hive up into the box for the top. If you don't have enough honey, you'd be better to use the honey in the top and feed sugar to the main hive. Naturally, you must avoid taking the old queen with the bees you raise up. A neat trick to help? Before lifting up the two/three frames of brood, shake all the bees off them. Ditto for the frames of honey. Then, rather than putting on top of the hive above the division board, put it above a queen excluder. After 30 minutes or so, you can come back and replace the excluder with the division board - nurse bees will have moved up to take care of the brood, and you are guaranteed that the queen remains below. Its a good idea to stuff some green grass or several thicknesses of newspaper over the slot entrance of the new unit - it helps to stabilise them so not so many of them drift back down to the main colony. Introduce the new queen by normal 'cage queen' techniques. Give the new unit 3 weeks or so to establish itself well. Then go through the main hive, kill off the old queen and newspaper the two units together. By introducing the new queen to a smaller unit in this way, you (1) improve the % success of introducing her (2) minimise the disruption to the buildup rate of the colony as a whole. ------------------------------------- Nick Wallingford Bay of Plenty Polytechnic (East coast, N Island, New Zealand) Internet nickw@waikato.ac.nz ------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Mar 1994 09:05:37 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ray Lackey Subject: Re: 4H Beekeeping Essay Contest There was an announcement in the American Bee Journal within the last couple of months. I don't have them with me. Maybe someone else has one close by. Otherwise, I'll try to bring it in and get it on the net within a day or two. PS. I saw the announcement for the on-line 4H books at USC and got them. I think a good job was done. My congratulations to all who worked on I downloaded them in wordperfect format and the figures came through real nice on both laser and bubblejet printers. (Beekeeping 4H books that is.) ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ + Raymond J. Lackey + + Beekeeper 10 years with 25 colonies on Long Island, NY+ + INTERNET: rjl7317@hazeltine.com + + Mail: 1260 Walnut Avenue, Bohemia NY 11617 + + Home Phone: 516-567-1936 FAX: 516-262-8053 + ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 5 Mar 1994 18:07:00 GMT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: ANDY NACHBAUR Subject: Todays Society & Beekeepers This message was from ANDY NACHBAUR to ALL originally in conference WN-BEENET on WILDBEES (WILD BEE'S BBS) ---------------------------------------- Hi All, Most of you don't know and may not want to know. Last winter the members of the California State Beekeepers Association found out that they had lost their life's saving, $80,000.00+- because of the dishonesty of a trusted long time elected secretary of the association. The money is gone, and in my opinion should have never been there, but thats not the end of the story. Now the local DA has not and does not seem inclined to prosecute the person responsible even with the support of persons appointed by the association to do so. 1994 may well set a new high or low in beekeeper crimes depending on how you view this sort of beekeeping activity. In the last 40 years that I have been involved with keeping bees, only one person has done hard time for bee thefts in California, and that was only because the thief had the gall to steal the truck and forklift to do the job with. He has been free to take up from where he left off, and this season he rented some bees to a almond grower, and then stole them out of another almond orchard, also managed by the same grower to fill his contract and collect his money. This time the beekeepers missed their bees and were able to recover them and return them to the orchards they were removed from. The almond grower paid twice for the same bees and had to find more to replace the ones that were stolen back by the original owners. With 800,000 hives of bees in California for the almonds it is to be expected that some will get lost, what is hard to understand as to why their is a little done to punish the thieves when caught. Having worked with the local county police on several bee thief cases I do understand some of the problem with the location and recovery of stolen bees. At the time one of the cases I worked on, one resulted in the biggest recovery of stolen bees to that date. The thief was passed through the judicial system and put on a work furlough program and worked for his dad. In another case the thief spent one night in the slammer, only because of the timing of his arrest. The beekeepers involved, including me, did recover a few of the hives, but never could get the honey, in drums, the thief extracted from them. In this case I did not know that any of my hives were involved until one of the other victims reported it to me. Part of my hives were stolen the 2nd time before I could recover them the next day. In todays society the stealing of another's property is given very low priority. This is compounded with bees because law enforcement people can not understand that theft of beehives do NOT indicate a secondary market for stolen bees as with most other stolen property does. Only beekeepers steal bees which have little value to others. One of the unsatisfactory solution to this problem is to stop ALL trucks loaded with bees and require proof of ownership. This is not a viable plan as bees are moved at night or early morning hours when the majority of law enforcement people have better things to do with their time. ttul Andy- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Mar 1994 11:26:00 PST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Hawkes, Robert" Subject: Grease Patties in Winter I started checking colonies in late January to see if supplemental feeding was needed. Usually I prepare a hard sugar cake which I place on colonies needing feed until syrup can be given in the early spring. In recent years many colonies here have come into spring very weak because of tracheal mite infestations. In my area (Pennsylvania) brood rearing resumes about February 1. So this year I tried feeding 2:1 sugar-Crisco patties as supplemental feed and as a means of inhibiting TM infestation of the emerging bees. These were large patties, about 1 cm thick by 15 cm in diameter. I placed them on the top bars, over the cluster. A spacer was used to elevate the inner cover to accomodate the patty as was done for the sugar cakes. I've given two of these to some colonies. Does anyone see problems with this rather massive application of grease patties? Do they make satisfactory winter feed--until it warms up enough for syrup? I noted on that February 21 that Diana Sammataro wrote that her research indicated that grease patties always present provided significant TM control. Robert Hawkes West Chester, Pennsylvania rhawkes@wcupa.edu ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Mar 1994 14:25:14 PST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jane Beckman Subject: Old Terra-patties I just found some Terrapatties that are about a year-and-a-half old. How long do these things stay good? They were stored under cool (not refrigerated) conditions. Should I just ditch them? --Jane Beckman [jane@swdc.stratus.com] ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Mar 1994 17:51:58 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jane Power Subject: Re: RE>Re: Mean Bees Thanks Rick! I appreciate your help. The bees were flying like mad on Saturday; it was wonderful. I was relieved to see them. We had 57 days with -25 or better (read lower, lots of -30), and I didn't have time to install furnaces in the hives (just kidding). Again, thanks. Jane Power ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Mar 1994 08:59:56 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ray Lackey Subject: robbee, i lost your address To Robbee........ I lost your email address. Here is the info. (sorry folks) Tabor's queen breeding was taken over by Bee Bob's Apiary at 7461 Porter Road Dixon, CA 95620 916-678-2495 ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ + Raymond J. Lackey + + Beekeeper 10 years with 25 colonies on Long Island, NY+ + INTERNET: rjl7317@hazeltine.com + + Mail: 1260 Walnut Avenue, Bohemia NY 11617 + + Home Phone: 516-567-1936 FAX: 516-262-8053 + ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Mar 1994 08:56:03 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ray Lackey Subject: 4-H Beekeeping Essay 1994 1994 4-H Essay Contest Announcement and Rules Sponsored by The American Beekeeping Association Copied from American Bee Journal, October 1993. Awards: Cash Prizes to 3 top Winners. 1st Place - $250.00, 2nd Place - $100.00, 3rd Place $50.00. Each State Winner receives an appropriate book about honey bees, beekeeping, or Honey. TOPIC: The topic for the 1994 Essay is "Products of the Hive and Their Uses." The Essayists should research the subject thoroughly and cite uses of, not only honey, but beeswax and the less-well-known hive products. * Historical: Hive products have been used in a wide variety of ways in the past. Some of thes are highly unusual, and some even humorous, when viewed from today's technological age. * Current: What role do hive products play in the world today? * Future: What uses do you Imagine for hive products in the future? Note: For this Exercise, honey bee pollination of plants is not considered a product of the beehive. ------------------------------------------------------------------ An accompaniny article said that 14 states participated last year. It also has the statement 'Complete rules and details on entering are available from local 4-H agents.' So much for communication. The address: The American Beekeeping Federation P.O. Box 1038 Jesup, GA 31545 Phone: 912-427-8447/4018 Also, I appologise, the online 4-H manuals were from University of California, Davis, not USC. I have an imperfect memory. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ + Raymond J. Lackey + + Beekeeper 10 years with 25 colonies on Long Island, NY+ + INTERNET: rjl7317@hazeltine.com + + Mail: 1260 Walnut Avenue, Bohemia NY 11617 + + Home Phone: 516-567-1936 FAX: 516-262-8053 + ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Mar 1994 16:39:24 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Isfan Ibrahim Subject: list address list address please thanks ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Mar 1994 11:03:24 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Sam Patterson Subject: Re: list address What does "list address please" mean? ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Mar 1994 16:07:00 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jane Power Subject: Re: Re-queening... Nick, this is very interesting material. I am putting it, with all of the other helpful hints into a folder for the spring. I hope it warms up here soon. The bees flew on Saturday, but it has snowed all day today. At the very least, I will have time to sort through all the good ideas. Thanks, Jane Power. Jpower@acs.Saultc.on.ca ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Mar 1994 17:24:24 CST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Janko Bozic Subject: Beekeeping in Macedonia & Carniolan bee Hi Andy, you asked me to give some more information on Carniolan bee. It won't be easy. First, I'm not good writer in English language, and second, I'm not a specialist in selection of honey bee. Anyway, I can write something about my experience with keeping bees in Slovenia. I'm also involved in Slovenian Beekeeping Society. I have some inside in organization of queen rearing and selection program in Slovenia. Some of those information I will try to share with Bee-liners. You can expect in future more available information also on electronic lines. In the moment only few of Slovenian beekeepers or bee researchers are using Internet. I'm trying to involve more of them. Specially on Bee-L list. I don't have jet any English written papers specially about Carniolan bee. I will try to get some from my friends. Before that I will try to write something from my beekeeping experience. For the beginning: SWARMING IN CARNIOLAN BEE Carniolan bee is described as one of the races which has the highest tendency to swarm. That's only partially true. In the last century trading with bee swarms was widely developed in Carniolan county. Selling the natural swarms were the easiest way to sell bee families. That was the basic reason that beekeepers appreciated swarming. They were able to get 3 to 4 families from a one during the season. Bees were also kept in small hives to facilitate swarming behavior. Latter, development of modern hives brought a big changes in beekeeping technology. Beekeepers were able to produce new colonies with taking a few combs from a hive and put in another one. Parallel with that also queen rearing was developed. Swarming suddenly become unnecessary, not only that. Beekeepers didn't want it anymore. They started with selection program to reduce swarming behavior and to facilitate supersedure. Now, you can find bee lines with low tendency for swarming behavior and relative high tendency for supersedure. My first teacher in beekeeping has such bees. And there are also others. Beekeeping practice has shown that it is possible to reduce swarming behavior with selection. In a country like Slovenia, where are very different climate regions, bees from one place can't be as good in another place. Bees which have low tendency for swarming in one region can show a high swarming tendency in other region. Beekeepers are sometimes very unsatisfied with new queens bought from other regions. That is the reason, that most of the larger beekeepings have their own queen raring and selection program. At the end, swarming is no more a big problem in keeping Carniolan bee families. A proper technology and selection leave that at the margin of current beekeeping problems. The most important topics are now bee diseases (Varroa mites and chalkbrood) and honeydew forage, at list for Slovenian beekeepers. Sincerely, Janko ======================================================= Janko Bozic OFFICE: Department of Zoology & Physiology Louisiana State University _ _________ Baton Rouge, LA 70803 /_\_____/_ What' that ? tel. 504 388 1769 //* \O O/ *\ fax. 504 388 1763 / *** \O/ *** / ** / \ ** Bee head ? HOME: / * _._ * 1222 Jim Taylor No.9 \.../ Baton Rouge LA 70820 \I/ tel. 504 767 4681 l BITNNET: ZOBOZI@LSUVM INTERNET: ZOBOZI@LSUVM.SNCC.LSU.EDU ======================================================= ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Mar 1994 17:26:31 CST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Janko Bozic Subject: Carniolan Bee Dear Bee Liners, Has anyone in USA a booklet "The Carniolan Gray-banded Bee"? It was published at the beginning of that century by Agriculture Society in Ljubljana, on that time in Austria. It is also possible, the city was called Leibach. The booklet was published to advertise selling of Carniolan bee in USA and other English speaking countries. It will be interesting to know if anyone has that booklet in USA or somewhere else. I will appreciate any other information about trading of Carniolan Bee in that time. Sincerely, Janko ======================================================= Janko Bozic OFFICE: Department of Zoology & Physiology Louisiana State University _ _________ Baton Rouge, LA 70803 /_\_____/_ tel. 504 388 1769 //* \O O/ *\ fax. 504 388 1763 / *** \O/ *** / ** / \ ** HOME: / * _._ * 1222 Jim Taylor No.9 \.../ Baton Rouge LA 70820 \I/ tel. 504 767 4681 l BITNNET: ZOBOZI@LSUVM INTERNET: ZOBOZI@LSUVM.SNCC.LSU.EDU ======================================================= ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Mar 1994 18:23:19 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jerry J Bromenshenk Subject: Re: Pest/disease free bees... -Reply On a somewhat different topic, my county extension agent wants to know if streptomycin used to treat apple trees in blossom to control fire blight poses any problems to bees. I told her not to my knowledge. We feed bees terramycin and in the past have used other antibiotics. My guess is no problem, either to bees or to contamination of hive products, since the bees aren't storing any surplus honey at this time of year. I checked my pesticide databases, no tests for streptomycin listed in them. If anyone has any hard evidence one way or the other, will you please forward it. I told Jennie I would toss this one to the list. Thanks Jerry Bromenshenk The University of MT jjbmail@selway.umt.edu ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Mar 1994 17:27:03 PST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: DAVE Organization: WSU CAHE USER Subject: Re: 4-H Beekeeping Essay 1994 In-Reply-To: Message of Tue, 8 Mar 1994 08:56:03 -0500 from Hi Ray, Thanks so much for the info. Don't know why we didn't get a notice directly this year. Cheers, Dave Pehling =========================================== | W.S.U./SNOHOMISH CO. COOPERATIVE EXTENSION | | 600 128TH ST. S.E. | | EVERETT, WA. 98208 | |PHONE - (206)338-2400 | |FAX - (206)338-3994 | |INTERNET CE6431@WSUVM1.CSC.WSU.EDU | ============================================ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Mar 1994 08:14:36 PST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Adrian Wenner Subject: Reply to message from Jane Beckman Sorry, folks, about putting this on the network, but my direct message to Jane Beckman was rejected -- "Host Unknown" Jane, My reply message to yours of 3/4/94 didn't get through. Please contact me on the individual address, again. Adrian *************************************************************** * Adrian Wenner E-Mail wenner@lifesci.lscf.ucsb.edu * * Department of Biology Office Phone (805) 893-2838 * * University of California Lab Phone (805) 893-2838 * * Santa Barbara, CA 93106 FAX (805) 893-4724 * *************************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Mar 1994 15:48:26 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Steve Peck Subject: How do I leave the list? Still waiting I sent this a few weeks ago and I still can't figure out how to leave the list. Help!!! > I've been trying to sign-off this group, but I can't. My address has changed > and the list server won't recognize me as a member of the list. I noticed > that others have had this problem. When I try an leave the list it says > to contact the administrator of the list. I'm not sure who this is, but > if you are listening please sign me off. It may be a good idea to post > who to contact if you want to leave the list and have had an address > change. Thanks. > > Steve Peck > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Mar 1994 16:06:15 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ray Lackey Subject: Re: How do I leave the list? Still waiting The owner I have listed on my info is: erik@acspr1.acs.brockport.edu . ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Mar 1994 16:39:43 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: RICHARD E BONNEY Subject: blueberry pollination Greetings I have been told that blueberry pollinators in Quebec have had success in turning their hives end-for-end to get the bees to change their foraging patterns. This is done instead of moving the hives to a new location. Can anyone give me information on this? Dick Bonney rebon@ent.umass.edu ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Mar 1994 09:14:58 +1000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Robert Rice Subject: Re: blueberry pollination & sugar syrup In-Reply-To: <9403092142.AA03365@spider.ento.csiro.au> from "RICHARD E BONNEY" at Mar 9, 94 04:39:43 pm > > Greetings > I have been told that blueberry pollinators in Quebec have had success in > turning their hives end-for-end to get the bees to change their foraging > patterns. This is done instead of moving the hives to a new location. > Can anyone give me information on this? > > Dick Bonney > rebon@ent.umass.edu > Hi Dick, I know from practical experience that moving colonies end for end disrupts normal flight patterns and forces bees to re-establish foraging patterns. I have not seen evidence that doing this forces them to change floral source however, it may provide an opportunity for scout bees to evaluate new floral sources during the course of the day, in addition to the routine morning scouting mission. After maintaining pollen traps and collecting pollen for a number of years I am aware that there may be 40 colonies in an apiary with traps and that not all hive work the same floral source each day. Routinely when collecting pollen,hives would have multiple layers of pollen coinciding with the number of days since the last collection of pollen. In some hives these layers were from different floral sources, while in other hives from the same floral source. The point is that bees scout for floral sources in the morning and tend to lock on to a floral source as long as it continues to yeild. If the volume is low they work multiple sources but tend to stay specific for that day. Each new day bring about the scouting cycle for foraging activities for that day and may be alterated by disrupting normal foraging behaviour. As far as sugar syrup and floral sources. I have been told that the chinese feed sugar syrup to their bees very earily in the morning before scouting activity starts. If they want bees to work a specific floral source, they make a sugar syrup and flower puree and the feed this to the bees. This feeding appearently predisposes the bees to forage and pollinate selected floral sources, which when in competition with other floral sources would be ignored. Robert Rice CSIRO Division of Entomology Canberra E-mail robertr@ento.csiro.au ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Mar 1994 12:00:20 +0200 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: eisikovitz Subject: Re: Pheromones ? In-Reply-To: <9403070714.AA02256@ccsg.tau.ac.il> Im trying this pheromone results of my experiments will come in august please call again and I"ll tell you. Sincerely Dan Eisikowitch ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Mar 1994 09:09:48 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jane Power Subject: bee venom Hello! My bee buddy has had a person with MS ask her if there is any evidence to support that bee venom arrests the progress of this disease. We didn't know and I can't remember if there has been recent discussion about this (there has been info on desensitization). Please let me know if you know. Thanks very much. Jane Power ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Mar 1994 08:12:50 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: KESLER@VAX.RHODES.EDU Subject: Re: bee venom Contact the American Apitherapy Society! They have wonderful descriptions from people who with MS who have been helped by venom therapy. I don't have their address at hand, but I'm sure by now you've already received several responses. Let me know if you still need the address and I'll see if I can dig it out. David Kesler Kesler@vax.rhodes.edu ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Mar 1994 09:55:37 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jane Power Subject: Re: bee venom David, I would love the address! Yours is the only response so far. thanks, Jane. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Mar 1994 09:46:23 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: KESLER@VAX.RHODES.EDU Subject: Re: bee venom The ramrod of the AAS (American Apitherapy Society is Dr. Bradford S. Weeks (he's an M.D.). His address is P.O. Box 74, North Hartland, Vt 05052. His telephone number is (802) 295-6383. Charles Mraz at Box 127, Middlebury Vermont 05753-0127 is the grandfather (practicing BVT for 60 years). The April 1993 (vol 3) "Bee Well" (quarterly newsletter of the AAS) has several articles on BVT and MS. Hope this helps your friend. David Kesler Rhodes College kesler@vax.rhodes.edu ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Mar 1994 09:04:53 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Gary S. Reuter" Subject: Re: queen breeding In message Dr MH Villet writes: > > How does one recognise an "optimum queen"? does one assume, from her > > lineage (and selection programme) that she should be good, or is there > > something one looks for in an emerging queen? what is the definition > > of an "optimum queen"? > It is much like finding a friend or mate. First impressions play a part but in time all the traits come out. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Mar 1994 20:01:12 -0800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: John Robert Bidleman Subject: Re: bee venom In-Reply-To: <199403101410.AA10701@mail.crl.com> Remember that post from the "Apitherapy" people a few weeks ago? I would bet that they have lots and lots of info of that nature and probably real up-to-date also. :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: : robbee@crl.com : : Robert Box 721 Healdsburg CA 95448 : :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Mar 1994 12:30:51 +0100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jean-Marie Van Dyck Subject: Re: Queen breeding > Dr MH Villet asked : What's the definition of an "optimum queen"? Gary S. Reuter on Thu, 10 Mar 1994 09:04:53 -0600 replied > It is much like finding a friend or mate. First impressions play a > part but in time all the traits come out. OK but ... don't answer the question ... Seems ... 1/ Need genetic qualities ... from her lineage (and selection programme) that she should be good (Villet) 2/ Need feeding (the more and the best = nurses raised with plenty of pollen a month before)=(the swarming conditions) and grooming from hatching to emerging (no fall in temp !) 3/ Need good mating and it's not the easier to control => Drones in respect of 1/ (but different lineage) and 2/ above Jean-Marie Local blooming informations ... Long. : 4deg 56' E - Lat. : 50deg 30' N - Alt. : 200 m - North sea : 200 km First pollen this 9-Mar-1994 (13degC)(salix caprea) ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Jean-Marie Van Dyck Fax +32 81 72 42 72 B.P. 102 email : jmvandyck@quick.cc.fundp.ac.be B-5000 NAMUR(Belgium) Medical school - Biochemistry dept ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Mar 1994 11:44:24 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Claudio Gutierrez I want to leave these list. Please help me. Claudio ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 12 Mar 1994 10:59:05 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Joanne Hulbert Subject: Re: Unknown subject Claudio, Don't leave the list. You won't bee happy. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 12 Mar 1994 12:25:33 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Harvey Hyde Subject: PRICES I am an amateur beekeeper from PEI Canada, presently suffering through a winter storm with -10 C temp. The last time I checked my overwintering hives a number of bees came out to greet me. We here on PEI are still variola and trachea mite free, however we pay a high cost. The price list for ordering New Zealand bees just arrived and orders have to be placed by March 19, even though it will be much later before I know if my present hives survive the winter. Membership fee $15.00 2 lb. package (1 queen) 92.00 4 lb. package (2 queens) 144.00 Extra queens 15.00 Compare these prices to a recent publication from our rich neighbours in Iowa and it will be obvious that I am not in this for the financial return. It is also obvious that the powers that be here are convinced that New Zeland bees are disease free and that these cheaper Iowa ones are not. SPENCER APIARY Cambridge, IA or Ionia, IA (515) 383-4606 (515) 394-2658 Order your packages bees or nucs now! Place orders by April 1st. Two-pound package with Queen $25.00 Three-pound package with Queen 32.00 Four-frame nucleus with Queen 32.00 (in your boxes) Apistan strips installed in all packages and nucs. Harvey Hyde hhyde@peinet.pe.ca ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 13 Mar 1994 15:08:00 +1300 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: NICKW@WAIKATO.AC.NZ Subject: Requeening without finding the queen Summary: Description of requeening a hive without having to look for the old queen. Variation of an article that orginally appeared in the Beginners Notes column of the NZ Beekeeper several years ago. REQUEENING WITHOUT LOOKING FOR THE QUEEN by Nick Wallingford One of the big stumbling blocks for many beginner beekeepers is that problem of how do you actually get the queen into the hive. The fundamentals -- the colony should be queenless, it should be well fed and it should have young bees emerging. How do you actually go about doing it? Most books tell you simply to find the old queen, kill her, and introduce your young queen in the mailing cage she came in. Fine, you think. Until you go out to look through your (strong) (aggressive) (agitated) colony for the queen. And knowing that you have your valuable, newly-arrived queen sitting in the house just waiting to be installed! So this message will be mostly devoted to giving you a method of introducing new queens to your hives without ever having to look for the old queen. And like any such system, it is not foolproof. It works for me and for many other beekeepers, but if it doesn't for you, first make sure you are following directions. Then consider special problems you might have, especially as they relate to the 'golden rules' of queenless, well-fed, with plenty of young bees. The system I will describe is not new, and it was not my idea. It's a combination of all sorts of ideas. Its the sort of management technique that develops when you have a fair idea of what you want to do, but you're not sure how. Then, rather than just making up your system, you sit back and think about bee behaviour and try to work effectively within the bounds of the ways bees will *usually* respond to certain stimuli. The object of the system is to create a nucleus colony on top of the old colony. I wanted a system that could be easily used by hobbyist or commercial beekeeper alike, without ever looking for the queen. It should be versatile, both in being able to deal with colonies of differing strengths and with end results. That is, the resulting nucleus, or top, can be used to re-queen with or to start a new colony. The method should use a minimum of extra equipment, and no exotic or complicated gadgets (much as I like them...) They are based around beekeeping systems that use two full depth brood chambers for most of the year. The system introduces a third box, which is of the same depth as the brood chamber boxes. After all is complete, you'll want to work this extra box 'out', especially if you (1) use different depth boxes for storing/extracting surplus and/or (2) you are particular about using white comb only (never used for brood rearing) as honey supers. The only 'extra' piece of equipment needed is a split board, also known as a division board. To those of you who may not know what that is, it is simply a hive mat (inner cover) that has had a notch cut out of the rim on one side so as to form an entrance for a colony set above it. The notch can be anywhere from 20 to 100 mm wide; I prefer to have mine about 50 mm, making it large enough for a fairly strong unit but still small enough that the bees can protect it while the colony is still small. I have modified the inner covers on all of my hives in this manner. Just to try something new this last autumn, I turned them over on my hives in an effort to give some sort of upper ventilation. I'm not really sure how much good it did. You will also need a queen excluder. As I have one of these for each hive as a matter of course, that is no problem. One last piece of equipment needed will be another box of drawn comb. Now, after all that prelude, let's see how the system works. For the sake of beginning, let us assume that it is springtime and your colony is housed in two boxes and you want to simply re-queen it. As you'll see later, you have other options, but let's start from this basic case. When you open your hive, you'll find most of the brood and bees in the upper box. Remove three frames of brood, both sealed and unsealed, from the centre of the brood nest. Take a glance over them first to see if you can spot the queen. Now that you're starting on a method that means you don't have to find her, its amazing how often you will! Then shake all of the bees off of them, back into the colony. You needn't shake off every last one of them, so long as you are sure that the queen is not one of the bees remaining. Now, place these three frames into the middle of the box of combs you have brought with you. If there are plenty of stores in the parent colony, take two good frames of honey, shake the bees from them, and place them in the new box with the three frames of brood. If there is not much honey in the hive, you will have to feed either the parent hive, the nucleus, or in the worst case, both. Now, you can start to re-build the hive. Replace all the frames you have taken from the parent colony with empty combs, doing your best not to split the brood nest if possible. On top of this second box, place the queen excluder. On top of the excluder, place the new box containing the brood and honey that has had the bees shaken from them. Put the lid on the hive and go away. Think about what you have just done. You have lifted brood and bees above the excluder. What is going to happen to the brood up there? The pheromones it gives off will attract nurse bees that are down in the main hive up to it. Combining that with the frames of honey, the third box that you have added has quite a 'pull' to bring bees up into it. But remember, there is a queen excluder between the boxes, so there is no way the old queen can come up there. After about 20 minutes, if you go back to the hive and lift the lid, you will find that enough bees have come up into the nucleus to take care of the brood, defend the colony and take care of your new queen. All you have to do now is replace the queen excluder with the division board and presto! You have your nucleus colony ready for introducing the young queen. It is queenless (because the queen couldn't come up through the excluder). It has plenty of young bees (because they have come up to take care of the brood you lifted). And it has plenty of food (because you provided them with two frames of honey). All the conditions have been met for ideal queen introduction. You can expect that some of the bees will drift back to the main colony, but the young bees taking care of the brood will most likely remain - the new unit shouldn't drop in bee strength too drastically. This system could be used on a larger number of hives. By the time the beekeeper has worked through the yard, shaking bees from brood and honey to lift into the new box, the first hive would have been left long enough for the bees to come up. Introduce your young queen into the top and wait a week. Don't disturb them in this time if at all possible; until the new queen is established and laying fully, the bees haven't really fully accepted her. Disturb them during this period and it is possible for them to turn on her. After a week, you will have a parent colony on the bottom, only slightly reduced in strength by the bees, brood and honey you took. And you will have a nucleus colony headed by a young queen above the split board, all set for your next decision. You can either use it to re-queen the parent colony, or you could place it on its own floor to use for increasing your colony numbers. If you choose the second option, it would be best if you actually moved it several miles away to avoid the loss of field strength through drifting. If you want to re-queen the parent colony, you could now go through it, looking for the old queen, preparing to unite the two colonies by replacing the split board with a sheet of newspaper for them to chew their way through. But that would defeat the whole point, wouldn't it? We're supposed to be doing this without ever looking for a queen, aren't we? If you can go through and find the old queen, aided by any tricks/knacks you might have to quickly locate queens, so much the better. You're certain of results then. But, believe it or not, you have the odds of success heavily in your favour if you simply newspaper the two units together without looking for the old queen at all. In almost 90% of the cases, if you unite two colonies with the young queen on the top of an old queen, the young queen will be left to head the resulting hive. Why this happens is open to argument. Some beekeepers will tell you that the bees always select the best of the two queens. I doubt that. My explanation goes along the lines of the young queen's bees are confined in the top box when you replace the split board with newspaper. As well, her field bees returning cannot use their normal entrance, the slot on the split board. They then drift down to the main colony entrance. As they are foragers returning with a load, they will be accepted without causing outrageous fighting at the hive entrance. I think the old queen is then probably killed by the 'scissor' effect of bees foreign to her coming at her from both directions - down as the bees confined above the newspaper chew through and move down in the hive, and up by the foragers from the top unit coming in through the bottom entrance and finding a 'strange' queen in 'their' hive. It has certainly worked for me, and if the thought of trying to find queens is an impossible one for you, the system might be worth considering. You might just want to experiment with it to see if the time savings will repay the small amount of uncertainty involved. It's not the answer to all of a beekeepers problems, but it just gives you an idea how by thinking a little bit about bee behaviour, you can sort out your management system to make your life a little easier while doing all you can in the interests of maximum production. ------------------------------------- Nick Wallingford (East coast, N Island, New Zealand) Internet nickw@waikato.ac.nz ------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 13 Mar 1994 08:20:56 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "La Reine de la Cite' des Phoques (Liz Day)" Subject: killer chemicals again Does anyone know why chloroform is no longer used in killing jars? ??? Liz Day University of Illinois at Chicago day@eecs.uic.edu ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 13 Mar 1994 20:26:42 +0100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Richard van Ouwerkerk Subject: Re: Unknown subject q ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 13 Mar 1994 16:10:09 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Jim G. Shoemaker" Subject: Re: Unknown subject In-Reply-To: <9403131931.AA08444@ozarks.sgcl.lib.mo.us> Richard: Couldn't read your message. Please try again. Jim On Sun, 13 Mar 1994, Richard van Ouwerkerk wrote: > q > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Mar 1994 00:09:45 BSC Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Vagner de Alencar Arnaut de Toledo Organization: FUEM/Fundacao Universidade Estadual de Maringa - Parana - Brasil. Subject: honey bee question I am a new userlist and do not know the discussion's topics. I would like to know informations about queen insemination. in instrumental insemination, I do not success. The queen bee has killed until two days of the insemination. What is happen? Where is my mystake? I am a teacher (studying to PhD). I would like any answers. Thanks for the moment. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Mar 1994 06:56:51 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Dave D. Cawley, a De Leon Socialist" Subject: Re: honey bee question > From: Vagner de Alencar Arnaut de Toledo > > I would like to know informations about queen insemination. > in instrumental insemination, I do not success. Good question! How do you do ii on bees, I can't seem to conceptualize it. It's not like they are large animals like humans or cows...8-} ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Dave D. Cawley | Where a social revolution is pending and, University Of Scranton | for whatever reason, is not accomplished, ddc1@jaguar.uofs.edu | reaction is the only alternative. ddc1@SCRANTON | -Daniel De Leon ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Mar 1994 09:04:21 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ray Lackey Subject: AFB Resistant Bees ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ + Raymond J. Lackey + + Beekeeper 10 years with 25 colonies on Long Island, NY+ + INTERNET: rjl7317@hazeltine.com + + Mail: 1260 Walnut Avenue, Bohemia NY 11617 + + Home Phone: 516-567-1936 FAX: 516-262-8053 + ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ The question came up some time back about a wax rendering plant that had developed a resistant strain of bees (to American Foul Brood). The question was for information on the subject bees. I just finished a book, Bees and their Keepers, Richard F. Trump, 1987, Iowa State University Press,ISBN 0-8138-0214-8. It was a very entertaining and informative book. The subject was discussed in the chapter "Breeding a Better Bee?".It was a Sioux City Iowa beekeeper E Edward Brown. The strain was developed further by Iowa State University and named the Brown Bee. The University employee, Walter Rothenbuhler, used artificial insemination to selectivelly breed for the cleaning behavior, two separate recessive genes, one to open cell of dead bee and the second to remove the body. The particular line became extinct when Walter left Iowa for Ohio State University and all hives were lost. Steve Tabor had used similar techniques to breed his line for resistance to AFB. He periodically tested his bees by freezing a frame of brood and checking the time it took the bees to uncap and remove the dead. I'm jealous of those in warmer climates, although from todays email I guess we have it good. We've had highs of 35-40 degrees F, not -10. A quick check on a warm day showed active clensing flights and some brood raising. I had to really rip up one colony for an observation hive at a local flower and garden show. The queen was in good form and had a large softball (12 cm) pattern across three frames. Snowdrops are blooming and crocus and daffidil are breaking through. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Mar 1994 09:41:34 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: ANDREW MENARD Organization: SUNY at Plattsburgh, New York, USA Subject: Re: Chloroform Liz: Chloroform has been removed from most uses due to the fact that it is now considered to be a carcinogen and most folks have discontinued useing it. I have found that if I need to collect some bees I use ether, Started Fluid works well and it you allow the bees to dry in the open air for a minute the maintain good condition. Andy ---------------------------------<><><><><><>----------------------------------- Andrew E. Menard Laboratory Animal Science SUNY Plattsburgh Plattsburgh, NY Bitnet: menardae@snyplava.bitnet Internet: menardae@splava.cc.plattsburgh.edu ---------------------------------<><><><><><>----------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Mar 1994 14:08:58 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: William G Lord Subject: hive covers I read the discussion of plastic inner covers with interest. I am wondering how many beekeepers actually use inner covers? I used them when I first began to keep bees, but abandoned them shortly thereafter. I consider the hive top of choice to be a single sheet of plywood, with or without cleats fore and aft. I paint my tops, but I know some beekeepers who just flip theirs every so often to allow the sun to melt the accumulated wax and propolis on the exposed side. I have heard all the arguments about ventilation and insulation but find that one half inch or thicker plywood provides adequate insulation from the summer sun in North Carolina (summer highs in the upper 90's) and I never see condensation on the covers in the spring and winter. The trick to this is the covers seldom form a tight seal, between slight warping and propolis buildup, so good ventilation is insured. I move my bees twice a year and these covers allow close stacking of hives and are not prone to blow off unless brand new. They should still be roped down, as should telescoping covers. Murphy's law dictates that covers only blow off when the bee truck is being tailgated by a new Mercedes. Bill Lord Louisburg, NC -- William G Lord E-Mail : wglord@franklin Internet: wglord@franklin.ces.ncsu.edu Phone : ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Mar 1994 15:55:23 +0000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Rick Hough Subject: RE>hive covers William G Lord I read the discussion of plastic inner covers with interest. I am >wondering how many beekeepers actually use inner covers? I used >them when I first began to keep bees, but abandoned them shortly >thereafter. I consider the hive top of choice to be a single sheet >of plywood, with or without cleats fore and aft. I paint my tops, >but I know some beekeepers who just flip theirs every so often to >allow the sun to melt the accumulated wax and propolis on the >exposed side. I'm relatively new at this (just going into my 4th season), so I am definitely interested in hearing from others on this topic. I use an inner cover & telescoping cover on each of my 10 hives. It seems to work well for me, providing the right balance of ventilation and insulation. I rarely move my hives, however, so the advantage of "migratory covers" (i.e. a sheet of plywood as described by Mr. Lord) and close packing of hives is not so important to me. Also, the winters in the Boston area are a bit more severe than in North Carolina, so winter insulation is much more important to me. The majority of hobby beekeepers in my area use the same inner/telescoping cover combination that I do, but most of the commercial operators use the "migratory cover" due to the advantages of close packing, and reduced equipment cost per hive. >I have heard all the arguments about ventilation and insulation but >find that one half inch or thicker plywood provides adequate >insulation from the summer sun in North Carolina (summer highs in >the upper 90's) and I never see condensation on the covers in the >spring and winter. The trick to this is the covers seldom form a >tight seal, between slight warping and propolis buildup, so good >ventilation is insured. I move my bees twice a year and these >covers allow close stacking of hives and are not prone to blow off >unless brand new. They should still be roped down, as should >telescoping covers. Murphy's law dictates that covers only blow >off when the bee truck is being tailgated by a new Mercedes. or a police cruiser. Rick Hough, a hobby beekeeper from Hamilton, MA, USA (NE of Boston) rshough@tasc.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Mar 1994 19:08:05 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Jim G. Shoemaker" Subject: Re: hive covers In-Reply-To: <9403142024.AA13763@ozarks.sgcl.lib.mo.us> I've tried wooden, plastic, and masonite inner covers and I don't care for any of them. The inner cover provides a haven for ants and the extra activity in removing the cover provides an aggravation both to the bees and the beekeeper. Unless I find something cheaper, I use plywood (I really like BB formboard grade), tack and glue about one-half inch of regular wood on each edge and use cleats on the ends. I also cover mine with offset plates from the print shop. What I have told you also identifies myself as a part-time small operator, retired and not concerned about the extra time. I am aware that large operators would not do it this way. Jim Shoemaker 5160 S. Western Brookline, MO 65619 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Mar 1994 13:39:32 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: RICHARD E BONNEY Subject: Bee/fish tags Greetings, A Fish and Wildlife student has asked me about a source of tags for marking bees. He has heard that there is a type that will work on fish. Does anyone know of such tags? What source? Regards, Dick Bonney rebon@ent.umass.edu ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Mar 1994 11:56:28 MST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Excuse Me4 Living Subject: SIGNOFF i sent the auto SIGNOFF to the listserver, nothing has happened. i want off of this list rdh ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Mar 1994 10:57:27 PST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Dave Pehling Organization: WSU CAHE USER Subject: Re: 4H Beekeeping Essay Contest In-Reply-To: Message of Mon, 7 Mar 1994 09:05:37 -0500 from Hi Ray, Just wanted to drop a note to thank you for the FAX and info on the FTP site for the 4H Beekeeping materials. Cheers, Dave Pehling =========================================== | W.S.U./SNOHOMISH CO. COOPERATIVE EXTENSION | | 600 128TH ST. S.E. | | EVERETT, WA. 98208 | |PHONE - (206)338-2400 | |FAX - (206)338-3994 | |INTERNET CE6431@WSUVM1.CSC.WSU.EDU | ============================================ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Mar 1994 13:18:24 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "La Reine de la Cite' des Phoques (Liz Day)" Subject: Re: Bee/fish tags FISH? No, there are tags made just for bees. They are glued to the top of the thorax and have little numbers on them. Maybe others know where they are supplied.... Liz Day University of Illinois at Chicago day@eecs.uic.edu ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Mar 1994 14:50:19 EST Reply-To: John.E.Burns.3@nd.edu Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "John E. Burns" Subject: Re: Bee/fish tags I asked information about this last May, this is the information I received from David Inouye: Opalith Plattchen (plastic bee tags in 5 colors) are available from the manufacturer: Chr. Graze KG Fabrik fur Bienenzuchtgerate 7056 Weinstadt-Endersbach Bei Stuttgart Germany telephone 0 71 51 6 11 47; fax 7151-609239 Price in fall 1991 was DM 22.50 for a kit with 500 tags, plus DM 5 for airmail shipping. Information from Kearns and Inouye. 1993. Techniques for Pollination Biologists. Hope that this helps. John =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= John E. Burns Graduate Student, Dept. Biological Sciences University of Notre Dame, Notre Dame IN 46556 Phone: (219) 631-4164 FAX: (219) 631-7413 Dept. Office: (219) 631-7186 =-=-=-==-=-==-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Mar 1994 09:52:08 +1200 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Cliff Van Eaton Subject: Bee/fish tags -Reply Try Ets Thomas Fils, Boite Postale no 2, 45450 Fay-Aux-Loges, FRANCE, ph. 38.59.56.20 (don't know fax number). The markers you want are called Opalith-Formplattchen (umlaut over the "a" in "plattchen"). They come in two varieties - one is just colours, the other is colours and numbers (1-99). The tags are attached using gum spirits, which is included in the kit. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Mar 1994 14:56:23 PST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: dAVE pEHLING Organization: WSU CAHE USER Subject: Re: Bee/fish tags In-Reply-To: Message of Tue, 15 Mar 1994 13:18:24 -0600 from Check with your State Dept. of Fisheries. Here in WA. State, salmon are marked with many kinds of tags, including a microscopic wire tag that is injected into the heads of smoalts. Cheers, Dave Pehling =========================================== | W.S.U./SNOHOMISH CO. COOPERATIVE EXTENSION | | 600 128TH ST. S.E. | | EVERETT, WA. 98208 | |PHONE - (206)338-2400 | |FAX - (206)338-3994 | |INTERNET CE6431@WSUVM1.CSC.WSU.EDU | ============================================ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Mar 1994 18:30:42 -0800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jim Osborn Subject: Re: RE>hive covers Well, I'll toss in my two cents. Here in the Pacific Northwest ventilation is really important; I found my incidence of chalkbrood went way down when I got serious about winter ventilation. I've got inner covers on all my hives, with screen over the openings to prevent robbing and encourage use of the "proper" entrance. I have a variety of "outer" covers, all of which seem to work fine, but someday I hope to get around to building some nice, thick insulated tops to help keep the cluster warm in winter. My hives get morning sun and afternoon shade, so summer heat isn't much of a problem. jimo@hebron.connected.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Mar 1994 22:11:43 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jean-Pierre Chapleau <73642.244@COMPUSERVE.COM> Subject: polystyrene mating nucs I am a professional queen breeder and producer. I have 450 hives and 1400 mating nucs. I am considering replacing my actual wooden mating nuclei by hard polystyrene baby nucs. I know of two swiss models (Swi-bi and Apidea). Does anybody know anything about these models or other models? What are their drawbacks? Do the ants chew them up? Does anybody know a queen breeders who has used or is using them and could be a source of information for me? ***************************************************************** Jean-Pierre Chapleau phone: (819)828-3396 1282, rang 8, fax: (819)828-2248 Saint-Adrien de Ham, QUEBEC Canada, J0A 1C0 73642.244@compuserve.com ***************************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Mar 1994 08:33:39 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ray Lackey Subject: Elementary Honeybee course booklet I am often asked to bring my observation hive into schools to talk about bees. I would like to have somekind of booklet to reccommend to the teacher to use this oportunity to teach the kids. A friend attending Southern States Beekeepers Federation a few years ago tells me that they had presented such material co-written by an extension agent and an elementary teacher. It had projects to simulate pollination in class with powders and paint brushes on flowers. Any information on this, or other, coursework would be appreciated. On another note, years ago I received a poster on protecting bees in the garden by careful use of chemicals. I believe it was also p produced by SSBF. I had it mounted and used it at presentations and markets until I had a flood in my basement where it was distroyed. I would like to replace it. Can anyone help me? ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ + Raymond J. Lackey + + Beekeeper 10 years with 25 colonies on Long Island, NY+ + INTERNET: rjl7317@hazeltine.com + + Mail: 1260 Walnut Avenue, Bohemia NY 11617 + + Home Phone: 516-567-1936 FAX: 516-262-8053 + ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Mar 1994 07:18:00 PST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Adrian Wenner Subject: marking insects, etc. To All: A flurry of messages dealt with how to mark bees and other animals. A book that should be of help in this matter: Kearns, C.A. and Inouye, D.W. 1993. TECHNIQUES FOR POLLINATION BIOLOGISTS. Univ. Press of Colorado. Starting on p. 321, one can find a number of techniques, including mention of the paste on disks already provided on the internet. Adrian *************************************************************** * Adrian Wenner E-Mail wenner@lifesci.lscf.ucsb.edu * * Department of Biology Office Phone (805) 893-2838 * * University of California Lab Phone (805) 893-2838 * * Santa Barbara, CA 93106 FAX (805) 893-4724 * *************************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Mar 1994 10:47:28 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Aaron Morris Subject: In Search of the Ideal Frame/Foundation Combination I'm about to order and construct a large quantity of frames. In the past I have always user wedged tops and grooved bottoms in combination with crimped wire foundation with the hooks at the top. I'm not looking forward to the tedious task of nailing all the wedges back on and have also found that the top hooks sometimes cause the foundation to warp. Therefore, I have been considering using a grooved tops/crimped wire, no hooks combination instead. Are there any opinions or, better yet, hands-on experience regarding the different frame/foundation options, including options not mentioned above? I've never been fond of plastic core or plastic core/metal reinforced foundation with the cute little communication holes at the bottom corners, as they always seemed somewhat hokey to me. But there may be others out there with different opinions or experience. So, what would be considered the ideal frame/foundation combination and what is it about that combination that makes it ideal? ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Mar 1994 15:52:35 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: William G Lord Subject: frames and foundation Dr. Roger Morse of Cornell University showed me a nifty little trick some 20 years ago for nailing the wedge into wedge top frames when installing foundation. Rather than using a hammer and missing the nail and marring the foundation use a pair of standard pliers slipped open to the widest jaw opening. Set wide, the pliers can be easily held in one hand and will quickly and efficiently squeeze nails into the wedge and secure the foundation snugly in the frame. At the wide setting the pliers are wide enough to encompass the whole width of the top bar, so the heavy part of the top bar is used to pull against. Try this method, it is quick and simple. I too have used wedge top bars as well as grooved top bars and grooved bottom bars with Duragilt (plastic based foundation). The grooved bars and Duragilt are a good combination in that the Duragilt snaps in the frames quickly and makes a good strong unit. I've never blown one out extracting deeps, even when freshly drawn out. However, I don't like the mess left behind when friend wax moth gets to them, and on certain rare occasions the bees don't seem to want to draw them out. There is also something to be said for having more cross bar to nail in a groove top frame, you can shoot a T staple into a groove top bar side where you cannot in a wedge top bar. I guess in the final analysis, I would take the grooved top bar for strength. -- William G Lord E-Mail : wglord@franklin Internet: wglord@franklin.ces.ncsu.edu Phone : ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Mar 1994 10:14:37 +0100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jean-Marie Van Dyck Subject: Bee tags - continued To complete the Cliff's info ... > Try Ets Thomas Fils, Boite Postale no 2, 45450 Fay-Aux-Loges, FRANCE ph. +33 38.59.56.20 fax #: +33 38.59.28.28 > The markers you want are called Opalith-Formplattchen (umlaut over the > "a" in "plattchen"). They come in two varieties - one is just > colours, the other is colours and numbers (1-99). The tags are > attached using gum spirits, which is included in the kit. Use acetone to dilute it. Seems the *must* is very little glued bar code tags from a bar code printing co. I have seen a photo of a lot of bee workers with these badges (1x3 mm?) on the back ... but you must catch (install) the laser to read them and compute the records .... regards jean-marie Local blooming informations ... Long. : 4deg 56' E - Lat. : 50deg 30' N - Alt. : 200 m - North sea : 200 km After a week of spring time ... a week of winter weather ... ... usual but depressing the fully blooming of the prunus sp. in the showers ... ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Jean-Marie Van Dyck Fax +32 81 72 42 72 B.P. 102 email : jmvandyck@quick.cc.fundp.ac.be B-5000 NAMUR(Belgium) Medical school - Biochemistry dept ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Mar 1994 10:51:29 +0100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jean-Marie Van Dyck Subject: Hive covers ... again Hi Jim > Well, I'll toss in my two cents. You're not alone ... > Here in the Pacific Northwest ventilation is really important; I > found my incidence of chalkbrood went way down when I got serious > about winter ventilation. Here in North Atlantic, we have the same winter problem. An simple idea of a swiss friend beekeeper is to put four matches (4 corners) between hive and cover during the winter. Remove them in Feb when the brood is starting again. Jean-Marie Local blooming informations ... Long. : 4deg 56' E - Lat. : 50deg 30' N - Alt. : 200 m - North sea : 200 km After a week of spring time ... a week of winter weather ... ... usual but depressing ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Jean-Marie Van Dyck Fax +32 81 72 42 72 B.P. 102 email : jmvandyck@quick.cc.fundp.ac.be B-5000 NAMUR(Belgium) Medical school - Biochemistry dept ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Mar 1994 09:22:12 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jerry J Bromenshenk Subject: Re: Bee tags - continued I think there is some confusion going on here. I believe the tags referred to must be read visually. I used to get them in the U.S. via Norm Gary. The tags are either color coded, or color coded with a number. Norm's version was metal. Mark the bees in the field by puttng a drop of glue on the thorax (while the bees were busy taking on fuel at a feeder). Put a row of giant magnets on the hive entrance and you got about 80% of the tags back. Others simply sit by the hive and record colors, numbers, etc. The bar code gizmo was developed at the Carl Hayden lab in Tucson. They even got awards for the thing. Problem was, you can't get the bees to run past the scanner in a way that it can reliably record the information - bee goes by too fast, wrong orientation, sneaks in the back door, etc. Jerry Bromenshenk The University of Montana jjbmail@selway.umt.edu ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Mar 1994 18:25:33 +0000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Malcolm Roe Subject: Re: Hive covers ... again In-Reply-To: <94031710512886@quick.cc.fundp.ac.be> from "Jean-Marie Van Dyck" at Mar 17, 94 10:51:29 am > An simple idea of a swiss friend beekeeper is to put four matches (4 > corners) between hive and cover during the winter. Remove them in Feb > when the brood is starting again. This is common practice in the British Isles as well. Beware, if you put the matchsticks in too early the bees will fill the whole of the ventilation gap you have created with propolis! -- Malcolm Roe Phone : +44 442 230000 ext 4104 Crosfield Electronics Ltd Fax : +44 442 232301 Hemel Hempstead, Herts. HP2 7RH, UK E-mail : roe@crosfield.co.uk ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Mar 1994 13:04:46 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "David F. Verville" Organization: AT&T Subject: Flame goes out? I have been doing some experiments with pure beeswax cylinders The cylinders are approximately 2" in diameter and 2" inches high. I have a waxed cord going through the center. When I lite the waxed cord, the cord burns down to the intersection of wax and cord, puddles, and then extinguishes. Why does the flame go out? Dave Verville ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Mar 1994 14:14:10 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ray Lackey Subject: Re: Flame goes out? your wax cord is probably too small. Size of wicking is a careful match between melting point of the wax, size of wicking, and diameter of candle. Melting point can be affected by the ad addition of an acid, but assume you do the same every time. If the flame melts wax at too great of a distance compared to its the wicking ability, the wax flows in and extenguishes the flame. If the heat doesnt melt wax far enough out, the wick pulls the available wax up, burns it, and melts the wax underneath the flame, creating a hole burned down through the middle. Oxygen has to be able to get down to the flame so this helps self-regulate the size, and thus the burning speed, of the flame. You are really dealing with a self regulating feedback loop. AT&T should have lots of engineers who could help model this but you can also visit a hobby shop and get a candle makeing guide that talks about wicking sizes for parafin candles. Beeswax melts at a higher temperture so you could use slightly larger wicks than reccommended but it is generally not necessary. Basically, the bigger the candle diameter, the bigger the wick. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ + Raymond J. Lackey + + Beekeeper 10 years with 25 colonies on Long Island, NY+ + INTERNET: rjl7317@hazeltine.com + + Mail: 1260 Walnut Avenue, Bohemia NY 11617 + + Home Phone: 516-567-1936 FAX: 516-262-8053 + ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Mar 1994 21:49:32 +0100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "(Staffan Str|m (CRsn))" Subject: Re: Flame goes out? You have to get right size on the cord, you cant have ordinary size for 2" Try a thicker. Get the right flame. Staffan Strom ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Mar 1994 16:09:07 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Malcolm (Tom) Sanford, Florida Extension Apiculturist" Subject: Re: Flame goes out? I don't know why, but I understand that thicker candles require thicker wicks.... ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Tom Sanford Extension Apiculturist University of Florida Mailing Address: Bldg 970, Hull Rd., Gainesville, FL 32611-0620 Voice phone 904/392-1801, Ext. 143 FAX 904/392-0190 INTERNET: MTS@GNV.IFAS.UFL.EDU BITNET: MTS@IFASGNV +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Mar 1994 14:42:03 PST Reply-To: Ron Dippold Voting Alias Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Ron \"Asbestos\" Dippold" Organization: Usenet Volunteer Votetakers Subject: CFV: sci.agriculture.beekeeping FIRST CALL FOR VOTES (of 2) unmoderated group sci.agriculture.beekeeping Newsgroups line: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Beekeeping, bee-culture and hive products. Votes must be received by 23:59:59 UTC, 5 April 1994. After the CFV appears on news.announce.newgroups it will be sent to and mailing lists. This vote is being conducted by a neutral third party. For voting questions only contact rdippold@qualcomm.com. For questions about the proposed group contact Adam Finkelstein . CHARTER Discussion on all aspects of beekeeping,bee-culture, and products of the hive. Sci.agriculture.beekeeping will provide beekeepers, bee scientists, farmers, and the general public one place for apicultural information. A FAQ is needed for bee-culture and beekeeping from African bees, to bee venom therapy. The curious are invited to discuss bee lore or ask questions, and the experienced beekeepers will be able to advise and help with the anecdotal information so necessary to beekeeping. HOW TO VOTE Send MAIL to: voting@qualcomm.com Do not post to the mailing list, it will not be counted. Your mail message should contain one of the following statements: I vote YES on sci.agriculture.beekeeping I vote NO on sci.agriculture.beekeeping You may also ABSTAIN in place of YES/NO - this will not affect the outcome. Anything else may be rejected by the automatic vote counting program. The votetaker will respond to your received ballots with a personal acknowledge- ment by mail - if you do not receive one within several days, try again. It's your responsibility to make sure your vote is registered correctly. One vote counted per person, no more than one per account. Addresses and votes of all voters will be published in the final voting results list. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Mar 1994 18:46:20 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jane Power Subject: Re: RE>hive covers Hiho! I use inside covers, and in the winter, I leave the whole in the cover open and place an empty super with straw in it and then put the on the outside cover. Then in the spring but before the daffodils are open I can feed (on very warm days) by snuggling a jar of food into this top compartment. It works well for me and the bees really seem to like it. They are in the upper part of the hive anyway and are usually exploring the straw when I go in. Of course I have less than 10 colonies and can therefore fuss. I can't see doing this with 200. This year with 57 days of -25C in 2.5 months I am crossing my fingers. Cheers, Jane. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Mar 1994 17:19:26 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jerry J Bromenshenk Maybe I am beating a dead horse, but in what way does this charter differ from Bee-L?????? Given the chatter over the last few weeks, I don't see any difference nor reason to start a new group. Thanks Jerry J. Bromenshenk The University of Montana jjbmail@selway.umt.edu > > CHARTER > > Discussion on all aspects of beekeeping,bee-culture, and products of > the hive. > > Sci.agriculture.beekeeping will provide beekeepers, bee scientists, > farmers, and the general public one place for apicultural > information. A FAQ is needed for bee-culture and beekeeping from > African bees, to bee venom therapy. The curious are invited to discuss > bee lore or ask questions, and the experienced beekeepers will be able > to advise and help with the anecdotal information so necessary to > beekeeping. > > > > HOW TO VOTE > > Send MAIL to: voting@qualcomm.com > Do not post to the mailing list, it will not be counted. > > Your mail message should contain one of the following statements: > I vote YES on sci.agriculture.beekeeping > I vote NO on sci.agriculture.beekeeping > > You may also ABSTAIN in place of YES/NO - this will not affect the outcome. > Anything else may be rejected by the automatic vote counting program. The > votetaker will respond to your received ballots with a personal acknowledge- > ment by mail - if you do not receive one within several days, try again. > It's your responsibility to make sure your vote is registered correctly. > > One vote counted per person, no more than one per account. Addresses and > votes of all voters will be published in the final voting results list. > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Mar 1994 17:28:40 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jerry J Bromenshenk Subject: Re: RE>hive covers At one time, many Montana beekeepers packed their colonies in straw. Hardly anyone does anymore. Besides the inconvience, the straw often became a source of a problem. Unless care was taken to make everything water tight, during a mid-winter thaw (like we usually get in January) the snow on top of and around the hive melts. The straw acts like a wick and gets soaked. Then, the temperature plummets and the whole thing becomes a block of ice. During the next thaw, the bees are encased in a dripping, soggy mass. Now days, the less is more approach is taken. Some wrap, others don't. Some use the waxed cardboard boxes. Many wrap in roofing felt - no straw. A few put a bit of styrofoam on top of the cover under the felt - I have no idea whether this really helps or not. Inner covers are used to provide an escape route (hopefully above the snow line on warm days). Many do not use them during the summer. I have never seen much evidence that they do or do not make a difference. One hears the arguements, but no hard data. Jerry Bromenshenk The University of Montana jjbmail@selway.umt.edu ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Mar 1994 20:43:46 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jane Power Subject: Re: RE>hive covers Jerry, I received two copies of your reply, and, again, I thank you :) Jane. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Mar 1994 18:07:02 PST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jane Beckman Subject: USENET bee group >Maybe I am beating a dead horse, but in what way does this charter differ >from Bee-L?????? For one thing, it's NOT A MAILING LIST. It's a USENET NEWS GROUP. This means no esoteric knowledge of its existance is needed, you don't have email cluttering up your box if you're only a casual occasional reader, and ITS A **USENET NEWS** group, so all those "America OnLine" folks can drop in and get info on beekeeping, chat about whether Africanized bees are killer bees or not, and the folks who don't know bees from wasps will have somewhere to go to find out *real information*, when they start talking about the "bees attacking my hotdogs" in USENET NEWS GROUPS like misc.rural. And USENET GROUPS like rec.gardens will have somewhere to refer folks who say "I'd like to talk about bees, are there any beekeeping groups *ON USENET*? This last factor is called "accessibility." To casual netters. And "Malibu Skipper" et.al. maybe will periodically disrupt *them* and not the bee list! Excuse me for yelling in the paragraph above, but sometimes it's necessary to emphasize the difference between this list and the general Usenet. If you want more information on Usenet, I urge you to drop into a couple Usenet newsgroups such as those cited and peruse the tenor and content. Personally, I also think the Usenet group might make a great screening device for people who are serious enough to want to subscribe to the bee list... Getting tired of explaining Usenet News... Jane Beckman [jane@swdc.stratus.com] ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Mar 1994 23:25:19 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jean-Pierre Chapleau <73642.244@COMPUSERVE.COM> Subject: educational kit on bees Dear Raymond I have on hand part of a kit from the U.S. National Honey Board that probably corresponds to your needs. It is divided in lessons on the following subjects: communications, pollination and honey. It is accompanied with 4 sheets of simple games and exercises. I think a video comes also with it but I do not have it. The NHB has a honey hotline: 1-800-356-5941. Give them a call? ***************************************************************** Jean-Pierre Chapleau phone: (819)828-3396 1282, rang 8, fax: (819)828-2248 Saint-Adrien de Ham, QUEBEC Canada, J0A 1C0 73642.244@compuserve.com ***************************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Mar 1994 23:25:28 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jean-Pierre Chapleau <73642.244@COMPUSERVE.COM> Subject: frames and foundations Dear Aaron I am also in the process of buying new frames. I just compared the cost using of Pierco plastic frames with plastic foundations versus wood frames with plastic foundation. I put Quattro Pro to work on this and found out the following: if you use your frames only once and then throw them away, the Pierco option is 10% cheaper. But if you are going to melt and put new foundation several times in your wooden frame, then the Pierco is much cheaper: 27% cheaper if you melt 1.5 times on average; 41% if you melt them 2.3 times. This is based on 20 years life expectancy for the wood and 15 years for the plastic. It includes all the cost including wiring, wax, labour for preparation, etc. The plastic option has other advantages: shorter extracting time, ease of preparation for melting (the old comb can be just scraped off) and no preparation required (during a very busy period of the season). One also has to consider that all the wax foundation on the market will soon be contaminated with chemical residues. This presently the case in Europe. So, even if I am reluctant to use plastic in my hives, I think I will give them a serious try... ***************************************************************** Jean-Pierre Chapleau phone: (819)828-3396 1282, rang 8, fax: (819)828-2248 Saint-Adrien de Ham, QUEBEC Canada, J0A 1C0 73642.244@compuserve.com ***************************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 Mar 1994 02:33:00 GMT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: ANDY NACHBAUR Subject: bee news group +-------------------------------+ ###From: Jerry J Bromenshenk ###Date: Thu, 17 Mar 1994 17:19:26 -0700 ### ###Maybe I am beating a dead horse, but in what way does this charter differ ###from Bee-L?????? Given the chatter over the last few weeks, I don't see ###any difference nor reason to start a new group. +-------------------------------+ Hi Jerry, One, makes it easier for many more people to get in on the act. Nothing wrong with list mail, but it is confusing and since its not listed on most servers kind of hard to find for some. Also it will make it harder for the list mail tpd's to dump guys like me because they don't like what I have to say or how I say it. I have been kicked out of the bee-l group for the 2nd time in a year. I don't care that much for myself as I already know it all, just ask me, but its less then fair to the 470+ bbs's that I echo the worthwhile stuff too and the interested people who may want to read some of it. I intend to continue to monitor this group, the bbs's and the new news group one way or another. ttul Andy- * TLX v3.40 * BEE ESS!(bs): n. An uninformed statement. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Mar 1994 22:56:58 MST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Excuse Me4 Living Subject: Re: bee news group well. since i can't get out of here... apparently... #1) i disrespect you all because, savvy as you might be about bees, you seem to be incapable of comprehending "kill" files or the delete key as evinced by the way you comported yourselves in the face of those weirdos a few months ago. i respect your knowledge, but your "elbow-room" on the net and ESPECIALLY your CLASS makes me wonder. #2) various questions i've had for years about bees... o why only female workers? o why the big queen fight? why not some exodus, etc.? o the food dance; predict 100,000 years in the future; (ok, 100K is absurd) in what evolutionary direction do you see the bees going? o is there yet a DNA map for bees? ...well, i'm sure you all have much more important things to think about. us novices just distract you masters from your God Given Tasks. I'll be On My Way (if you'll let me!), robert "loves bees; hates wasps" holder ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Mar 1994 22:29:24 -0800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jim Osborn Subject: Re: RE>hive covers I like the technique mentioned at last fall's WAS meeting at Simon Frasier (somewhat similar to Jane's): put a box on top filled with a "fiberglass pillow," a plastic garbage sack stuffed with fiberglass insulation. Nice and neat, clean, etc., and avoids the wicking problems. One could, I suppose, put a breathing tube vertically in this box and wrap the pillow around it. jimo@hebron.connected.com Camano Island, WA, USA ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Mar 1994 22:24:51 PST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Robert Plamondon Subject: Sign Me Off, Please Sorry about the waste of bandwidth, but, like many other people, I have found that the normal ways of trying to get off this mailing list don't work. Someone, please, pull the plug on me! Thanks, Robert ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 Mar 1994 10:01:25 +0200 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Andreas Kasenides Subject: Re: Requeening without finding the queen In-Reply-To: (Your message of Sun, 13 Mar 94 15:08:00 +1300.) <9403141003.AA25387@jupiter.cca.ucy.cy> I have read with great interest the article from Nick Wallingford about requeening since many of you have suggested that my bees' "social problems" can be adjusted by requeening. Since hives of a couple of stories high full of nasty bees are not at all easy to handle, I have never attempted locating a queen in any hive higher than a single story (and that with very little success). Imagine somebody behind a hood and wire mesh with heavy gloves trying to locate a queen. Visibility is not good and the constant buzzing of "excited" bees is not at all helpfull.... Now if I could obtain a good tempered queen from somewhere. But my main question is: Are there any changes to the procedure when trying to establish new colonies from an already established one? Any more suggestions in doing this? Is it more desirable to establish new colonies through the natural swarm method or this "multiplying" method? And something else. Somebody on the list suggested a method of applying MAVRIK by using wooden inserts that have been left to dry. Does anybody know of any more details on this method. MAVRIK is the only thing against varroa that we have here and any new methods, less painful to bees, are welcomed. Thanks Andreas ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 Mar 1994 09:24:17 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ray Lackey Subject: Re: frames and foundations I have found that scraping the Pierco frame a couple times leaves the cell structure filled in. I Tried melting the wax off in hot water but the frame warped. Does anyone know what the distortion temp for the Pierco plastic frames is? Is there a better way to clean down to a clean, thin coating of beeswax? I don't have a ggod way to deliver (that was supposed to be 'good') controlled temperature hot water under pressure but this may be the way to do it if the distortion temperature is higher than wax melting temperture but unde under 212 F. Oh, if you wind up with a smooth surface with cells filled in, the bees will draw drone come right across the frame. or mix and match. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ + Raymond J. Lackey + + Beekeeper 10 years with 25 colonies on Long Island, NY+ + INTERNET: rjl7317@hazeltine.com + + Mail: 1260 Walnut Avenue, Bohemia NY 11617 + + Home Phone: 516-567-1936 FAX: 516-262-8053 + ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 Mar 1994 07:29:20 MST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Excuse Me4 Living Subject: bee-l signoffs apparently, this person (erik@...) is the one who has the authority to remove list members. also, my message last night was unnecessarily insulting. i'm irritated that i can't get off this list, but that isn't the fault of any of the list members... anyways, i just wanted to send this out so that anybody else who wants off the list can see the (apparent) listowner's address. rdh ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 Mar 1994 12:07:45 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Aaron Morris Subject: Wait! The horse isn't dead yet! Jane Beckman [jane@swdc.stratus.com] who is "Getting tired of explaining Usenet News..." makes points in favor of the proposed new NEWSNET group that are precisely why I don't favor placing this discussion on the mainstream of the information highway. Jane writes: >"For one thing, it's NOT A MAILING LIST. It's a USENET NEWS GROUP. > This means no esoteric knowledge of its existence is needed,... > (S)o all those "America OnLine" folks can drop in... And USENET > GROUPS like rec.gardens will have somewhere to refer folks who say > "I'd like to talk about bees, are there any beekeeping groups > *ON USENET*? This last factor is called "accessibility." To casual > netters. I am not looking forward to the day when I have to wade through multiple postings to sci.agriculture.beekeeping to find what little educating information may be contained therein. EVERYONE in cyberspace will have instant access! Postings WILL range from very knowledgeable posts, to "bees attacking my hotdogs". Serious netters will find that the increased "accessibility" will generate a great deal of non-informative chatter. Jane continues: >"...you don't have email cluttering up your box if you're only a > casual occasional reader,..." There is a LISTSERV option individual subscribers can set to have a daily digest of the BEE-L sent rather than individual postings. TELL LISTSERV@ALBNYVM1 SET BEE-L DIGEST or send mail to LISTSERV@ALBNYVM1 with one line saying SET BEE-L DIGEST Setting this option does wonders for relieving cluttered mailboxes. > "And "Malibu Skipper" et.al. maybe will periodically disrupt *them* > and not the bee list! I suspect that the "Malibu Skipper's" of the networld will disrupt sci.ag.beekeeping AND BEE-L rather than keeping the mischief to USENET. And by virtue of it's location, sci.ag.beekeeping will inherently have MORE Malibu Skippers, and if they don't blat to BEE-L directly, I suspect that any ruckus on sci.ag.beekeeping will spill over to BEE-L. Jane finishes with: >"Excuse me for yelling in the paragraph above, but sometimes it's > necessary to emphasize the difference between this list and the > general Usenet... > > Personally, I also think the Usenet group might make a great screening > device for people who are serious enough to want to subscribe to the > bee list." I suspect that the Usenet group will just point the way to BEE-L, entice many to clutter both distribution methods with unwanted drivel, and denigrate the quality of BEE-L. Sci.ag.beekeeping will lead to much, much more of the following: >"Also it will make it harder for the list mail tpd's to dump guys like > me because they don't like what I have to say or how I say it. I have > been kicked out of the bee-l group for the 2nd time in a year. I > don't care that much for myself as I already know it all, just ask > me, but its less then fair to the 470+ bbs's that I echo the worthwhile > stuff too and the interested people who may want to read some of it. > I intend to continue to monitor this group, the bbs's and the new news > group one way or another." I'll defend to my death Andy Nachbaur's first amendment rights to say and post what he feels, and I'll rest better at night knowing that he's watching our groups, but I don't feel that the time I spent reading his post did anything to enhance my interests in bees. Neither does this pontification do anything to enhance anyone's interest in bees, and I hope that steps will be taken to avoid more of the same, although I'm sure I'll be flamed to death for what I have written. I just don't see that a schism in this group is a positive thing. Knowledgeable people WILL find BEE-L (see how many have already!). Those who truly desire the information will seek out the answers where they exist. I keep likening this issue to the issue of where do I locate my hives. I don't place my hives on a busy street corner, for more than just the obvious reasons. A street corner hive would certainly be a way to raise peoples' interest! But a street corner hive would also invite those whose interests aren't related to bees, per se. A street corner hive would affect those who just happen to be walking by (casual netters). A street corner hive would also invite vandals (mischievous netters). To avoid the passers by and the vandals, I locate my hives off the beaten path. And I welcome any opportunity to educate informed parties who are inquisitive enough to seek me out and request a tour of my apiary. But I don't advertise either. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 Mar 1994 09:19:02 -0800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Richard Spear Subject: Re: Wait! The horse isn't dead yet! In-Reply-To: <01HA41VNWCBQA75QJA@HAMLET.CALTECH.EDU> On Fri, 18 Mar 1994, Aaron Morris wrote: [much deleted . . .] > I keep likening this issue to the issue of where do I locate my hives. > I don't place my hives on a busy street corner, for more than just the > obvious reasons. A street corner hive would certainly be a way to raise > peoples' interest! But a street corner hive would also invite those > whose interests aren't related to bees, per se. A street corner hive > would affect those who just happen to be walking by (casual netters). A > street corner hive would also invite vandals (mischievous netters). To > avoid the passers by and the vandals, I locate my hives off the beaten > path. And I welcome any opportunity to educate informed parties who are > inquisitive enough to seek me out and request a tour of my apiary. But I > don't advertise either. ahhh, but we *do* place our hives on "street corners" such as fairs and expositions, in order to expose people to the wonders and values of bees. newsgroups will introduce many people to beekeeping - people who might not have come to it otherwise. the concerns being expressed by some subscribers about a bee newsgroup are a bit facile and more than a bit elitist. i have enjoyed being a member of this list for some time and i have gotten useful information from the group, but i look forward to an internet newsgroup that will have the worldwide circulation and open access that this will allow. i'll tolerate the occasional "interference" in the name of electronic democracy. regards, richard rspear@sookit.jpl.nasa.gov all disclaimers apply ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 Mar 1994 10:56:48 PST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jane Beckman Subject: Re: Wait! The horse isn't dead yet! >I suspect that the Usenet group will just point the way to BEE-L, entice >many to clutter both distribution methods with unwanted drivel, and >denigrate the quality of BEE-L. My experience with lists mentioned in the Usenet groups (sewing group, antiques group, brewing group, etc.) is that exactly the opposite happens. It take a certain effort to subscribe to a list---which isn't in the mentality of the disruptors. Also, you don't have to mention BEE-L a lot. I can see putting it in the FAQ, but otherwise it leaves the option of telling people that there is a serious, scientific list elsewhere. The alt.sewing group periodically gets harrassed by the net.kiddies, but I've never seen them bleed off into the mailing lists. Most simply kill file the drivel. Of course, a *Serious Socially Disfunctional Net Terrorist* will find you anywhere, anyway, list or no, because these guys get their jollies from disrupting society. However, most of them eventually end up in Federal Prison ;-) or get their access pulled. (Ask me about Clarence Thomas IV...) Okay, every now and then we get folks on the mead-lovers list asking about beer or wine, but that's minimal, and they get steered (in email) elsewhere. I'm a tech writer by trade, so I know that there is a mass-market audience and a technical audience. Usenet is mass market (think "Popular Mechanics."). The bee-l is technical (think trade journal, e.g. "The American Journal of Ethnobotany"). I intend to monitor both. Jane Beckman [jane@swdc.stratus.com] ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 Mar 1994 10:28:00 -0800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Paul van Westendorp 576-5600 Fax: 576-5652" Subject: Re: RE>hive covers Re. Covers and Winter Wraps Quite a bit of research was done in Alberta and some of the other prairie provinces during the 1970's and 80's. (Nelson, Szabo, and others). I distinctly remember that some of the studies concluded that wrapping colonies on the sides is not nearly as important as insulation on top of the colonies. This was particularly valid in southern Alberta. Paul van Westendorp Provincial Apiculturist British Columbia ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 Mar 1994 12:49:09 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jerry J Bromenshenk Subject: Re: Wait! The horse isn't dead yet! If you have access to Internet, you have access to Lists or Newsgroups. Internet by definition is worldwide. If you want to argue that if you only have access to a commercial service like America On-Line and as such have easier access to a Newsgroup, maybe the arguement holds. However, I know that several Bee-L members must be accessing the net via some means other than through an academic or government feed - whether they have to pay for the access or not, I don't know. My concern (and I don't mean it to sound elitist) is not getting swamped by messages, my concern is that it will split Bee-L, which isn't all that big (count the names that appear), and that Bee-L will disappear. Seems to me Andy's BBS in CA serves the purpose proposed for this USENET, but as I told Jane, maybe I don't fully understand the distinctions between Lists, BBS, and USENETS. Jerry The dead horse beater jjbmail@selway.umt.edu On Fri, 18 Mar 19, Richard Spear wrote: > > [much deleted] > the concerns being expressed by some subscribers about a bee newsgroup are > a bit facile and more than a bit elitist. i have enjoyed being a member of > this list for some time and i have gotten useful information from the > group, but i look forward to an internet newsgroup that will have the > worldwide circulation and open access that this will allow. i'll tolerate > the occasional "interference" in the name of electronic democracy. > > regards, richard > > rspear@sookit.jpl.nasa.gov > all disclaimers apply > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 Mar 1994 15:33:29 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Bryan Miller Subject: Re: Wait! The horse isn't dead yet! In-Reply-To: Your message of "Fri, 18 Mar 94 09:19:02 PST." <9403181734.AA13008@srlns1.srl.ford.com> On Fri, 18 Mar 1994, rspear@sookit.jpl.nasa.gov appears to have written: > On Fri, 18 Mar 1994, Aaron Morris wrote: > > [much deleted . . .] > > I keep likening this issue to the issue of where do I locate my hives. > > I don't place my hives on a busy street corner, for more than just the > > obvious reasons. A street corner hive would certainly be a way to raise > > peoples' interest! But a street corner hive would also invite those > > whose interests aren't related to bees, per se. A street corner hive > > would affect those who just happen to be walking by (casual netters). A > > street corner hive would also invite vandals (mischievous netters). To > > avoid the passers by and the vandals, I locate my hives off the beaten > > path. And I welcome any opportunity to educate informed parties who are > > inquisitive enough to seek me out and request a tour of my apiary. But I > > don't advertise either. > > ahhh, but we *do* place our hives on "street corners" such as fairs and > expositions, in order to expose people to the wonders and values of bees. > newsgroups will introduce many people to beekeeping - people who might not > have come to it otherwise. > > the concerns being expressed by some subscribers about a bee newsgroup are > a bit facile and more than a bit elitist. i have enjoyed being a member of > this list for some time and i have gotten useful information from the > group, but i look forward to an internet newsgroup that will have the > worldwide circulation and open access that this will allow. i'll tolerate > the occasional "interference" in the name of electronic democracy. > > regards, richard > > rspear@sookit.jpl.nasa.gov > all disclaimers apply Thanks Richard! I am appalled by the irrational distrust (paranoia?) oozing between the lines... The creation of an internet newsgroup certainly will have very little effect on BEE-L. Most people prefer to read threads in the logical, coherent manner that a newsgroup affords instead of waiting for two days for a reply, trying to remember what it really was that you said. I don't anticipate hoards of vicious flamemongers subscribing to the list like lemmings. They are lazy and BEE-L is work. Secondly, the perceived superiority by virtue of being a scientific list is bollocks! I've been a lurking member of the list for quite a while and I have yet to see any high and lofty theories espoused that a high school student couldn't grasp, much less a clinical biologist. /* set soapbox off */ IOW - I think we're fooling ourselves. cheers, Bryan ----------------------------------------------------------------- "As far as the laws of mathematics refer to reality, they are not certain; and as far as they are certain, they do not refer to reality" Albert Einstein ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 Mar 1994 15:50:00 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Warner Granade Subject: Re: Wait! The horse isn't dead yet! I'm looking forward to the usenet newsgroup just for the reasons that some dislike. I want a group that is diluted. I don't care about marking bees or how to best kill them. I want to ask people if they have tried the new plastic extractors or what they use for the fuel in their smoker. This listserv seems a little too scientific for that and I've thought many times of unsubscribing, especially since there seems to be more traffic. This listserv will still exist for those that it serves well. The usenet group will serve a different group. -- Warner Granade *****jwg2y@virginia.edu 804-924-7409 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 Mar 1994 15:43:19 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Aaron Morris Subject: That poor horse! Richard Spear replied: >"ahhh, but we *do* place our hives on "street corners" such as fairs > and expositions, in order to expose people to the wonders and values > of bees. newsgroups will introduce many people to beekeeping - people > who might not have come to it otherwise. True, but not quite. Most fair grounds I've been to would make nice locations for bee yards, were it not for all the people. People come to fairs seeking out things such as bees (as well as other agricultural persuits and the games and rides). And when I work at the fairs I get asked, "Do you get stung?" more times than I care to answer, but continue to answer because I know there is a limit to the time I'll be spending answering simple questions and occasionally I'll meet someone at the fair who is truly interested in the art/craft of keeping bees. But I usually spend at most a day or two a summer working my beekeepers association booth, and then I'm done. A USENET group will be a never ending, year 'round booth at the fair with questions asked by people whose real purpose for attending in the first place is most likely riding the Tilt-a-Whirl 'till they puke! Call it a bit facile and more than a bit elitist, but I'm more comfortable with a small informative group than a large, noisy uninformed one. Anyway, I've given more than my two cents worth here and I'll not post any more on this topic (that poor horse!) I'm sure I've made my position clear on this issue and I'll refrain from using this scholarly list as if it were a USENET group any further. ;-) Aaron Morris (the horse beater's friend) 15 Year Hobby Beekeeper Upstate N.Y. (where it's still snowing, with no signs of spring :( ) ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 Mar 1994 16:05:03 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Simon Winchester Subject: Bees in Manhattan I live in a co-op in Tribeca, New York, beside City Hall Park, and I would like to keep bees on the roof, eight floors up. I cannot think it would be anything but pleasant for all concerned, bees included, but this being New York, lawyers being everywhere, I have grave doubts that what I would like to do is legal, or possible. I would welcome advice and, in the unlikely event that there are no overarching restrictions (those of the building management I can probably handle), suggestions as to bee types and so forth. In London (where I come from) it was no problem - even the Governor of the Bank of England kept them on his roof. But American cities - where they'll happily let you buy a submachine gun, but are fearful of beestings, are, I fear, an altogether different proposition. Thanks Simon Winchester ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 Mar 1994 14:19:16 PST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jane Beckman Subject: Re: That poor horse! Okay, how many of you regular posters plan to leave here if and when rec.ag.beekeeping is created? How many plan to plaster the sign-on address of bee-l all over the Usenet group? Thought so. >And when I work at the fairs I get >asked, "Do you get stung?" more times than I care to answer, but >continue to answer because I know there is a limit to the time I'll be >spending answering simple questions and occasionally I'll meet >someone at the fair who is truly interested in the art/craft of keeping >bees. But I usually spend at most a day or two a summer working my >beekeepers association booth, and then I'm done. So, is anyone forcing you to go over to Usenet and perform this function? I have no problem answering "dumb" questions, and I certainly only log into Usenet on an irregular basis. But then, I also volunteer at a couple State historical sites, and answer such questions as "Where are the tracks that the wagon trains ran on?" on a regular basis. With a SMILE, and without condescending. Personally, I *welcome* the opportunity to educate the general public. The debate here makes me wonder if this doesn't argue *for* a generally available forum---clannishness breeds xenophobia, and I keep seeing statements that look alarmingly like xenophobia. Beekeeping is a dying art, I fear, and by making it into an elitist and esoteric one, we will only hasten this process. With education of the general public, it's possible we may help slow this decline. Education is the surest antidote to fear---and a lot of folks fear bees. And some folks seem to fear Usenet News. I suggest education on this topic, as well. That is why I have tried to clarify what Usenet News groups are and are like for those who have no familiarity. >A USENET group will be >a never ending, year 'round booth at the fair with questions asked by >people whose real purpose for attending in the first place is most >likely riding the Tilt-a-Whirl 'till they puke! As a regular Usenet News reader, I find the general tone of this offensive and insulting. I have read rec.gardens for years, and find that the group there is serious and genuinely interested, so why should a beekeeping group be any different? I also don't like what this implies about folks like myself who check in and out of Usenet groups we have only passing interest in, such as rec.birds. It takes a deliberate action even so subscribe to a Usenet newsgroup, so it's not as if people are simply wandering by. More like folks who see a sign that says "Beekeeping exhibits" on a building at our mythical fair, and decide to enter this relatively unimposing structure (which is NOT on a route to somewhere else) and see what beekeeping is about. Why do people think "uninformed = obnoxious"? Dumb questions are remedied with intelligent answers. --Jane Beckman [jane@swdc.stratus.com] ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 Mar 1994 17:23:31 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Adam Finkelstein Subject: Facts In-Reply-To: <199403182050.AA56996@Hopper.itc.Virginia.EDU> from "Aaron Morris" at Mar 18, 94 03:43:19 pm Quoted from A. Morris: A USENET group will be > a never ending, year 'round booth at the fair with questions asked by > people whose real purpose for attending in the first place is most > likely riding the Tilt-a-Whirl 'till they puke! Call it a bit facile > and more than a bit elitist, but I'm more comfortable with a small > informative group than a large, noisy uninformed one. > > Anyway, I've given more than my two cents worth here and I'll not post > any more on this topic (that poor horse!) I'm sure I've made my position > clear on this issue and I'll refrain from using this scholarly list as if > it were a USENET group any further. ;-) > Aaron Morris (the horse beater's friend) Aaron, let me get this straight. You are afraid that a USENET group on beekeeping will lessen the quality of bee-l and you do not want that? I can understand not wanting to loose quality content on bee-l. But, I cannot understand where you have determined USENET is so unsavory or unscholarly. How many USENET groups are there? Something like 3000? Are all of these groups for puking morons? Are they all worthless? I don't think so. I've kept a file of all the people on USENET who have asked me about bees in the last year. Its over 100 names long: roughly 1/3 of the bee-l subscribers. These people have all been nice and civil and _needed_ information. I shared what I could with them. That is part of my job. To promote and explain the art/science of beekeeping. If you feel that your experience on bee-l will be lessened by a USENET group existing for beekeeping, perhaps you would like to correspond with some of these nice folks and explain to them how unscholarly and irresponsible they are since they were reading news on USENET. Adam =============================================================================== Adam Finkelstein VDACS Apiary Inspector 116 Reservoir St Harrisonburg VA 22801 703-433-1006 (V) 703-434-5607 (Fax) 703-564-4394 (Pager) adamf@hopper.itc.virginia.edu adamf@vtaix.cc.vt.edu |Bees To Please| ================================================================================ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 Mar 1994 17:19:42 +0000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Rick Hough Subject: Re: Wait! The horse isn't dead yet! There are reasonable arguements on both sides of this one. So go cast your votes, and let what happens happen. My in-box is getting full! This is a lot like voting for president - each individual vote counts, but not much - it is the "will of the people" that will permit this new group to be created or not (majority rules). Rick Hough, Hamilton, MA, USA rshough@tasc.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 19 Mar 1994 13:40:00 +1300 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: NICKW@WAIKATO.AC.NZ Subject: Wicks for candles... When I was doing a lot of beeswax candle making with school kids, I faced the same problem of wicks either burning out or raging too large and melting the candle into a misshapen blob. The price of 'proper' candle wicking was prohibitive, so I found I could use braided cotton pajama cord. These cords consist of a large number of strands to make a cord about 8 mm diameter. It's very reasonably priced and available at any sewing shop. I was mostly making the rolled up foundation type candles, and just had to experiment to determine what diameter candles needed 4 strands and which ones (fat) needed more. The same principles applied to moulded candles, but generally speaking, more strands/unit of diameter. I'll attach the text of the handout I gave the kids to accompany the session. Finally a question: Which will burn longer, a candle 1" in diameter and 6" long, or a candle 2" in diameter and 3" long? Answer: Neither. They will both burn shorter... MAKING CANDLES FROM BEESWAX Bees gather NECTAR and POLLEN from flowers. - Pollen to feed young bees - Nectar to make honey and wax Beekeepers collect wax by melting down the cappings cut from the combs of honey during the extraction process, by collecting scrapings of wax from inside the hive and by melting down old combs. Much of this wax is made into FOUNDATION to put into new frames to put back into the hive. The type of candle we'll be making is made from these sheets of foundation, rolled tightly around the wick. The other type of candle is a moulded candle, made by pouring melted beeswax into a container with the wick suspended down through the middle. Finally, there are dipped candles. They are made by repeatedly dipping the wick into melted beeswax and allowing the layers to cool between dippings. BE CAREFUL WHEN MAKING CANDLES BECAUSE BEESWAX CAN CATCH FIRE VERY EASILY ! Use a 'double boiler' so that you are not heating the wax directly. \ / \ \ / / | 3 3 ... | | ... 3 3 ... | | ... 3 * m e l t i n g | ... | | ... 3 ** w a x *** 3 ... | | ... 3 **************** 3 ... | | ... \__________________/.... | | ............................ | | Water in outside container | \______________________________/ \|/ H E A T For dipping the wicks into molten wax, I use an *old* (never to be used for anything else again, believe me) electric frypan. You MUST put 10-15 mm of water into it along with the wax - if you heat beeswax directly, it is likely to RAPIDLY boil over and/or catch fire. Foundation comes in different sizes and thicknesses. We will be using FULL DEPTH MEDIUM BROOD foundation. You can also buy special WICKS for making candles. We will be using BRAIDED COTTON PAJAMA CORD that you can get from a sewing shop. We will use only 4 of the strands. If you use too many, the candle will burn too fast. If you don't use enough, it will go out and not burn cleanly. 1. Cut the wick LONGER than the candle you want to make. 2. Pick out 4 strands and DIP them into melted beeswax. Lay them down so that they will dry STRAIGHT. 3. CUT the sheet of foundation into two pieces. 4. Lay the wick across the wax. 5. Roll the wax TIGHTLY around the wick. 6. Use an old PAINT BRUSH to brush on melted wax to finish the candle. 7. CUT the wick neatly at the bottom of the candle and leave about 10 mm at the top. ------------------------------------- Nick Wallingford Bay of Plenty Polytechnic (East coast, N Island, New Zealand) Internet nickw@waikato.ac.nz ------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 19 Mar 1994 02:43:50 -0800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: John Robert Bidleman Subject: Re: Wait! The horse isn't dead yet! In-Reply-To: <199403181856.AA25556@mail.crl.com> *yawn*.....another post about newsgroup? If there were merit in this idea I suppose it would be less talk and more group. :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: : robbee@crl.com : : Robert Box 721 Healdsburg CA 95448 : :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: On Fri, 18 Mar 1994, Jane Beckman wrote: > >I suspect that the Usenet group will just point the way to BEE-L, entice > >many to clutter both distribution methods with unwanted drivel, and > >denigrate the quality of BEE-L. > > My experience with lists mentioned in the Usenet groups (sewing group, > antiques group, brewing group, etc.) is that exactly the opposite happens. > It take a certain effort to subscribe to a list---which isn't in the > mentality of the disruptors. Also, you don't have to mention BEE-L a lot. > I can see putting it in the FAQ, but otherwise it leaves the option of > telling people that there is a serious, scientific list elsewhere. > > The alt.sewing group periodically gets harrassed by the net.kiddies, but > I've never seen them bleed off into the mailing lists. Most simply kill > file the drivel. > > Of course, a *Serious Socially Disfunctional Net Terrorist* will find you > anywhere, anyway, list or no, because these guys get their jollies from > disrupting society. However, most of them eventually end up in Federal > Prison ;-) or get their access pulled. (Ask me about Clarence Thomas IV...) > > Okay, every now and then we get folks on the mead-lovers list asking about > beer or wine, but that's minimal, and they get steered (in email) elsewhere. > > I'm a tech writer by trade, so I know that there is a mass-market audience > and a technical audience. Usenet is mass market (think "Popular Mechanics."). > The bee-l is technical (think trade journal, e.g. "The American Journal of > Ethnobotany"). > > I intend to monitor both. > > Jane Beckman [jane@swdc.stratus.com] > ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 19 Mar 1994 08:23:23 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Adam Finkelstein Subject: Vote In-Reply-To: <199403082109.AA16101@Hopper.itc.Virginia.EDU> from "Jane Power" at Mar 8, 94 04:07:00 pm Hi. Just in case you didn't get this, here is the CFV for sci.agriculture.beekeeping Please vote, and pass the word along. We need as many votes as possible. Thanks Adam -- =============================================================================== Adam Finkelstein VDACS Apiary Inspector 116 Reservoir St Harrisonburg VA 22801 703-433-1006 (V) 703-434-5607 (Fax) 703-564-4394 (Pager) adamf@hopper.itc.virginia.edu adamf@vtaix.cc.vt.edu |Bees To Please| ================================================================================ FIRST CALL FOR VOTES (of 2) unmoderated group sci.agriculture.beekeeping Newsgroups line: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Beekeeping, bee-culture and hive products. Votes must be received by 23:59:59 UTC, 5 April 1994. After the CFV appears on news.announce.newgroups it will be sent to and mailing lists. This vote is being conducted by a neutral third party. For voting questions only contact rdippold@qualcomm.com. For questions about the proposed group contact Adam Finkelstein . CHARTER Discussion on all aspects of beekeeping,bee-culture, and products of the hive. Sci.agriculture.beekeeping will provide beekeepers, bee scientists, farmers, and the general public one place for apicultural information. A FAQ is needed for bee-culture and beekeeping from African bees, to bee venom therapy. The curious are invited to discuss bee lore or ask questions, and the experienced beekeepers will be able to advise and help with the anecdotal information so necessary to beekeeping. HOW TO VOTE Send MAIL to: voting@qualcomm.com Your mail message should contain one of the following statements: I vote YES on sci.agriculture.beekeeping I vote NO on sci.agriculture.beekeeping You may also ABSTAIN in place of YES/NO - this will not affect the outcome. Anything else may be rejected by the automatic vote counting program. The votetaker will respond to your received ballots with a personal acknowledge- ment by mail - if you do not receive one within several days, try again. It's your responsibility to make sure your vote is registered correctly. One vote counted per person, no more than one per account. Addresses and votes of all voters will be published in the final voting results list. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 Mar 1994 21:18:29 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Michael Moroney Subject: Re: Wait! The horse isn't dead yet! In-Reply-To: <199403181714.AA28726@world.std.com> > I am not looking forward to the day when I have to wade through multiple > postings to sci.agriculture.beekeeping to find what little educating > information may be contained therein. EVERYONE in cyberspace will have > instant access! Postings WILL range from very knowledgeable posts, to > "bees attacking my hotdogs". Serious netters will find that the > increased "accessibility" will generate a great deal of non-informative > chatter. Remember, the proposal is NOT to replace or get rid of BEE-L. You can continue to read BEE-L and you can choose to read or ignore the newsgroup if it gets created. The newsgroup is likely to _increase_ the quality of BEE-L, since troublemakers are likely to cause trouble in the newsgroup and not here. But troublemakers aren't likely to be a problem (there may be some noise at first only because it's a new group - *most* new groups get noise at first and then settle down as people who aren't truely interested drop out) Also, should we so choose, we can redirect BEE-L to "A Discussion of Bee Biology" like the charter reads, and redirect beekeeping questions to the group. If we choose. And certainly if a truely good post shows up only in the newsgroup, someone will probably repost it to BEE-L so everyone sees it. > There is a LISTSERV option individual subscribers can set to have a > daily digest of the BEE-L sent rather than individual postings. > TELL LISTSERV@ALBNYVM1 SET BEE-L DIGEST > or send mail to LISTSERV@ALBNYVM1 with one line saying > SET BEE-L DIGEST > Setting this option does wonders for relieving cluttered mailboxes. That only decreases the number of messages. The total number of kilobytes/day is unchanged, and you still have to wade through all the messages to find ones of interest. > > "And "Malibu Skipper" et.al. maybe will periodically disrupt *them* > > and not the bee list! > > I suspect that the "Malibu Skipper's" of the networld will disrupt > sci.ag.beekeeping AND BEE-L rather than keeping the mischief to USENET. Only the truely dedicated troublemakers will do so. Most will stop at the newsgroup. > And by virtue of it's location, sci.ag.beekeeping will inherently have > MORE Malibu Skippers, and if they don't blat to BEE-L directly, I > suspect that any ruckus on sci.ag.beekeeping will spill over to BEE-L. But in a newsgroup you can killfile them. In fact, once a "Malibu Skipper" shows up, I can set things up so I NEVER see any post from them ever again, and junk replies to those posts too. -Mike ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 19 Mar 1994 10:42:47 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Dave D. Cawley, a De Leon Socialist" Subject: Smelling Salts to Revive the Horse (to beat it more) If it wasn't for a "street corner" hive, I wouldn't be here... A year ago this month I took a much needed mental health day (sick day when i wasn't sick) and took my then 4 year old daughter to the Everhard Museum, here in Scranton PA, to see a toy exhibit. After a half hour of the toy exhibit we spent an hour sitting in the basement staring open-mouthed at the plexiglass hive. I've been going to this museum for almost 7 years mostly just to see the bees. I finally went into the giftshop and bought my copy of FIRST LESSONS IN BEEKEEPING. Sure I liked bugs of all kinds as a kid, but watching these bees work on the frames and trying to spot the queen made by blood rush and really excited my daughter. If it wasn't for this very obvious display I probably wouldn't have gotting into beekeeping and I *know* I wouldn't have looked for this list. It was the public presence of beekeeping that made me interested in the idea of keeping bees and it probably did the same for others. It's brought me some new and interesting friends, both in the area and on the Net. I have no intention of signing off this list *and* I plan on participating in the newsgroup. Maybe a newsgroup will bring other people into the hive, that's fine with me I could always use a few new friends! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Dave D. Cawley | Where a social revolution is pending and, University Of Scranton | for whatever reason, is not accomplished, ddc1@jaguar.uofs.edu | reaction is the only alternative. ddc1@SCRANTON | -Daniel De Leon ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 19 Mar 1994 02:10:00 GMT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: ANDY NACHBAUR Subject: Whats a BBS? +-------------------------------+ ###From: Jerry J Bromenshenk ###Subject: Re: bee news group ###Date: Fri, 18 Mar 1994 09:00:38 -0700 (MST) ### ###Ok, so Jane set me straight on a UseNet. Now I am trying to figure what ###it gains over your BBS. ### ###In a few weeks, I intend to have a BBS up and running at the UM. I got a ###copy of Qmodem, but need to reset the strings - getting garbage on the +-------------------------------+ Hi Jerry, Good Luck on the bbs, if you need any help call me voice at 209-826-2261. I am in and out as its that time when we are working the bees and moving them out of the almonds.. To answer yours and the questions of many other on bbsing I will tell you of my experience of more then 3 years in the operation of Wild Bee's BBS for Beekeepers and Friends in Los Banos, CA @ 209-826-8107. A bbs is a communications platform in that many different types of services can be ongoing from the same bbs. My bbs is based on the Wild Cat BBS Program and runs on a 486-33 DOS base cpu using Desqview. I use over 200 dos programs called from the bbs platform to do many tasks of which one is run several different programs that do mail transfers all in a dos QWK format. Even the uucp is converted to QWK for placement in the Wild Bee's message base. Wild Bee's BBS is connected to 470+ other bbs's in a mail network called Wild Net. Wild Net carries a conference called BEE Net that originates here and can be had for the asking at any of the bbs that carry the Wild Net. Wild Net may soon be available via satellite. Wild Bee's also has a bbs internet connection via Holonet and can send and receive E-Mail and news groups @beenet.com. BBSing is a growth industry and it has been a mind boggling experience for me, who's only job for 40+ years has been one that has kept my head bowed between my legs peering into thousands of beehives. The work of being a systems operator, and it is a lot of work, is so different from keeping bees I still can't believe that I have been able to get it this far. I have had a lot of help from another beekeeper, sysop, computer guru, who also finds time from the daily operation of 12-14,000 colonies of bees to bbs, Brian Ferguson of Huston-Ferguson Apiaries. Between us we have more then 25 years experience with cpu's starting with TRaSh 80's and 75 years experience keeping bees. Brian has been the largest producer of honey in California many times and is one of the largest single providers of California bees for pollination. Today he is struggling with the same problems that all beekeepers face, survival as a economic unit in an industry that is in distress. The bbs caller who calls here can get the BEENET Conference, use the E-Mail to receive the B-List, and soon will be able to get the new Bee News Group. Also we have all the Beekeeping Files that I have been able to collect that can be downloaded. There is much that we can not do from the bbs, yet, like ftp, gopher and much more. All of these things will be added in the future as programmers make them available to bbs's. The bbs is a tool that anyone with a modem and the money to pay the phone bill can use. Wild Bee's is a *FREE* service provided by me to the Beekeeping Industry and Friends, same as the Bee Net Conference. With the addition of the internet E-Mail which costs about $20 per month plus phone charges I decided to accept donations for the first time started Jan 1, and much to my surprise I have got some. ttul Andy- * TLX v3.40 * * Queen bee--the power behind the drone. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 19 Mar 1994 15:10:26 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Mike Vincent Subject: Re: Whats a BBS? Swarm Season has started! just went after my first swarm here in Atlanta! Hopefully this'll be an active season. seeya mike matchstic@aol.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 19 Mar 1994 15:15:33 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: jprovo@GNU.AI.MIT.EDU Subject: Re: Usenet bee group [any discussion of this should bee moved to private email -- i just couldn't let this fly by without commenting on its possible fruition --jzp] > For one thing, it's NOT A MAILING LIST. It's a USENET NEWS GROUP. This > means no esoteric knowledge of its existance is needed, you don't have email > cluttering up your box if you're only a casual occasional reader, and ITS[sic] > A **USENET NEWS** group, [clipped] jane, duplication is a major no-no in usenut. any even casual reader of news.groups can tell that. I predict responses in the range of "why not just gate your mailing list" [extremely common -- ever see the bit.listserv heirarchy?] to "are you proposing 'rec.bees'?" and the proposal falling flat on its face, and then MORE non-tech people KNOWING about your precious royal jelly, BEE-L. > Getting tired of explaining Usenet News... ...getting tired of seeing it done wrong... joe provo Disclaimer: "I'm the only one foolish enough to claim these opinions as mine." jprovo@gnu.ai.mit.edu crimson@wpi.edu jzp@gene.ummed.edu jprovo@hotblack.schunix.dmc.com Rev. Dkr. Nick LaRG0, ASC, BBB Russell Street UN*X Consultations and Development (NIC handle: JZP) ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 19 Mar 1994 16:28:14 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Dave D. Cawley, a De Leon Socialist" Subject: Re: Usenet bee group > From: jprovo@GNU.AI.MIT.EDU > jane, duplication is a major no-no in usenut. any even casual reader of > news.groups can tell that. I predict responses in the range of "why not just > gate your mailing list" [extremely common -- ever see the bit.listserv > heirarchy?] to "are you proposing 'rec.bees'?" and the proposal falling flat on > its face, and then MORE non-tech people KNOWING about your precious royal > jelly, BEE-L. We've passed all that crap so far, now we're up to the voting on the group. If you want it vote yes. If not, either vote no or abstain. But before you talk, know the facts. Check news.groups for the facts. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Dave D. Cawley | Where a social revolution is pending and, University Of Scranton | for whatever reason, is not accomplished, Scranton, Pennsylvania | reaction is the only alternative. ddc1@jaguar.uofs.edu | -Daniel De Leon ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 19 Mar 1994 16:53:47 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "La Reine de la Cite' des Phoques (Liz Day)" Subject: the horse that won't die The only "fact" I'm unclear on is whether the existence of the new newsgroup will make BEE-LINE more likely to get garbage postings from people like Malibu Skipper, or not. If it does, we'll never be able to get rid of it or them, right? Liz Day University of Illinois at Chicago day@eecs.uic.edu ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 20 Mar 1994 00:18:12 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jean-Pierre Chapleau <73642.244@COMPUSERVE.COM> Subject: plastic frames =I have found that scraping the Pierco frame a couple times leaves the =cell structure filled in. I Tried melting the wax off in hot water =but the frame warped. Does anyone know what the distortion temp =for the Pierco plastic frames is? Is there a better way to clean =down to a clean, thin coating of beeswax? I don't have a ggod way to =deliver (that was supposed to be 'good') controlled temperature =hot water under pressure but this may be the way to do it if the =distortion temperature is higher than wax melting temperture but unde =under 212 F. =Oh, if you wind up with a smooth surface with cells filled in, the =bees will draw drone come right across the frame. or mix and match. I cannot speak from personnal experience about the Pierco frames. Nevertheless I heard that the best time to clean them off is when they are frozen. If you just bend the frozen frame, holding the endbars with both ends, the comb will apparently separate easily from the plastic foundation. The cell structure must then be left quite clean. I am interested in trying plastic frames myself. I would like to hear from people who have been using Pierco frames for a while before I buy thousands of them. Does anyone dislike them and why? ***************************************************************** Jean-Pierre Chapleau queen breeder phone: (819)828-3396 1282, rang 8, fax: (819)828-2248 Saint-Adrien de Ham, QUEBEC Canada, J0A 1C0 73642.244@compuserve.com ***************************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 20 Mar 1994 18:57:21 BSC Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Aldevino Ribeiro Organization: FUEM/Fundacao Universidade Estadual de Maringa - Parana - Brasil. get REV BEE-L quit ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Mar 1994 08:02:04 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Mike Ramundo Organization: University at Albany Computing & Network Services Subject: Administrivia - BEE-L LISTSERV HELPDOC Notes on Listserv Lists listserv commands: sub, unsub, review, get, put, index, ... must be sent to the LISTSERV where the list lives ( note that the listname is usually part of the command ! ) in the following examples, substitute actual values for the two keywords: listname, listnode NOTE: when sending commands, it is STRONGLY recommended that there be nothing but listserv commands in the body of the message ! ( no signature, questions, comments ) Questions/comments should be directed to -request, owner- or postmast - all at the --------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 21 Mar 94 08:02:04 EST From: jquser@user.node.addr To: LISTSERV@ALBNYVM1.BITNET Subj: listserv commands SUB John Q User --------------------------------------------------------------- If you are submitting something that is to be distributed to all subscribers of the list, then you send mail to the list: Date: Mon, 21 Mar 94 08:02:04 EST From: jquser@user.node.addr To: BEE-L@ALBNYVM1.bitnet Subj: summary of what follows xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx ( note: it is strongly suggested, when writing to/for a list, that you use a line length <=72 ) --------------------------------------------------------------------- Some Common LISTSERV Commands Command Syntax Description/purpose ------------------------- ------------------------------------------ INFO ? - request list of info/help doc INFO REFCARD - request LISTSERV REFCARD ( a help doc which overlaps/extends this doc ) SUB BEE-L - request subscription to list - YOUR address is taken from "From:" header OK xxxxxx - confirm your subscription request, where xxxxxx is replaced by the 6 character code specified in the subject line of the confirmation request message. SIGNOFF BEE-L - ( synonym for UNSUB ) UNSUB BEE-L - remove your subscription to the list Note: if YOUR address has changed, this command will fail - write to YOUR local POSTMAST/POSTMASTER/POSTMSTR id for assistance. If that fails, then write to OWNER-BEE-L @ for assistance. If that fails, then write POSTMAST/POSTMASTER/POSTMSTR@ REVIEW BEE-L - request a copy of the list headers - if permitted, include a list of all non- concealed subscribers. INDEX BEE-L - return a list of all files stored for this list: includes filename, filetype, size info and description . GET - request a file to be sent to you using the and listed in the output of the INDEX command. SET BEE-L MAIL - send mail * 4 possible mutually NOMAIL - don't send mail * exclusive settings DIGEST - send digest * for the 'send' INDEX - send digest index * switch FILES - enable files from the list NOFILES - disable files .... REPRO - receive copies of postings you send NOREPRO - suppress copies .... QUERY BEE-L - display current option settings ( see SET ) LIST - send list of lists hosted by (*) LIST GLOBAL - send list of all available lists (*) LIST GLOBAL - send list of all lists that have the specified keyword in their list name or description (*) (*) = non-confidential lists only --------------------------------------------------------------- thanks, postmast@albnyvm1 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Mar 1994 08:08:38 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Gary S. Reuter" Subject: Re: Flame goes out? You are not using cord designed to be candle wick. Wicking has the proper absorbing capability to allow the liquid wax to move up the wick. In message Discussion of Bee Biology writes: > I have been doing some experiments with pure beeswax cylinders > > The cylinders are approximately 2" in diameter and 2" inches high. > > I have a waxed cord going through the center. > > When I lite the waxed cord, the cord burns down to the intersection > > of wax and cord, puddles, and then extinguishes. > > > Why does the flame go out? > > Dave Verville ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Mar 1994 08:44:21 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ray Lackey Subject: Re: Bees in Manhattan No Problem! I am a member of The Long Island Beekeepers Club. We have members from the Bronx to Shelter Island. We have had members keep bees sixth floor roof in Manhattan. Queens County (New York City) has the highest yield per hive average of NY state. In Queens, people in row houses re houses request beekeepers to keep their meanest hives on their roofs to stop those who would make the rooftops a pathway. Our club met yesterday (lessons on mead making and spring management) but meets the third Sunday of every month. Give me a call if you would like to visit sometime. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ + Raymond J. Lackey + + Beekeeper 10 years with 25 colonies on Long Island, NY+ + INTERNET: rjl7317@hazeltine.com + + Mail: 1260 Walnut Avenue, Bohemia NY 11617 + + Home Phone: 516-567-1936 FAX: 516-262-8053 + ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Mar 1994 09:00:31 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jerry J Bromenshenk Subject: Re: Bees in Manhattan Urban beekeeping is legally practiced in several major cities as Ray points out. I believe Long Island is the oldest group. Seattle has a "model beekeeping ordinance". It spells out how many hives, where they can be placed, distance from sidewalks, etc. In general, the hives should be placed where passer-bys don't cross the flight path of the bees. If the lot is small, a solid fence does the trick, since the bees have to fly over the fence and thus over the heads of people. I have seen hives on rooftops, decks, in yards, almost anywhere they can cling. Worst one was on top of a four story house with a very steep roof. A house painter owned them and hung ladders on the roof to get to the hives on a tiny platform. How he managed to move supers full of honey on ladders tied by a rope to a chimney beats me. Another had to jump a five foot gap between two roofs to get to the hives! With the advent of the Africanized bee and the media driven hysteria, we should encourage urban beekeeping. I am beating that in urban areas the Africanized bees will take over as the predominant feral bee. I say this based on reports that the Africanized bees are somewhat mite resistant (to Varroa), the reported ability of Africanized bees to take over cavities from European bees and birds and small animals, etc.; and their less picky nature about what serves as a suitable site to set up housekeeping. By keeping European bees in cities, we maintain some comptetition for cavities, etc. and hopefully a large pool of European drones to mate with Africanzied queens (even if their overall success rate may be poorer than that of Africanized drones, the greater numbers should help). So, I suggest that there should be a big push to educate the media and our urban neighbors about the reasons for keeping bees in cities - other than pollinating fruit trees, flowers, etc. There will always be bees in cities, just which type becomes the question. Best Regards to BEE-L Jerry Bromenshenk The University of Montana jjbmail@selway.umt.edu On Mon, 21 Mar 1994, Ray Lackey wrote: > No Problem! I am a member of The Long Island Beekeepers Club. We have > members from the Bronx to Shelter Island. We have had members keep bees > sixth floor roof in Manhattan. Queens County (New York City) has the > highest yield per hive average of NY state. In Queens, people in row houses re > houses request beekeepers to keep their meanest hives on their roofs to > stop those who would make the rooftops a pathway. > > Our club met yesterday (lessons on mead making and spring management) > but meets the third Sunday of every month. Give me a call if you > would like to visit sometime. > > ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ > + Raymond J. Lackey + > + Beekeeper 10 years with 25 colonies on Long Island, NY+ > + INTERNET: rjl7317@hazeltine.com + > + Mail: 1260 Walnut Avenue, Bohemia NY 11617 + > + Home Phone: 516-567-1936 FAX: 516-262-8053 + > ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Mar 1994 11:50:02 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ray Lackey Subject: Re: Bees in Manhattan We do have one village here on Long Island that does ban beekeeping. They don't have a ban on yellow jackets! Only a couple of beekeepers were grandfathered into that town. I agree we need to educate the public about the several benefits of honey bees but the most effective may be........ !!!!!! The best defense against general African Bee infestation is !! !!!!!! a *STRONG* managed base of European honey bee hives!!!!!!!!!!! Can you Imagine the rush? That might even cause people to check the bottle of honey they are buying in the supermarket to see if is supporting Chinese honey or Local Civil Defense Against African Bees! We'll be swamped with requests to either teach people beekeeping or THEY'LL PAY US to set up our hives in their neighborhood! ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ + Raymond J. Lackey + + Beekeeper 10 years with 25 colonies on Long Island, NY+ + INTERNET: rjl7317@hazeltine.com + + Mail: 1260 Walnut Avenue, Bohemia NY 11617 + + Home Phone: 516-567-1936 FAX: 516-262-8053 + ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Mar 1994 10:51:29 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "David F. Verville" Organization: AT&T Subject: Flame goes out II A big thanks to all of you who responed to my mail. RE: Flame goes out. I went to the local "Arts and Crafts" store and purchased several different sizes of wick. I found that even the thickest wick would not burn properly. So a bought some bucther's cord and although it burns better, it is still unsatisfactory. I'm going to try braiding several smaller wicks into one larger and experiment. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Mar 1994 12:03:06 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Chris Conroy Subject: Re: Bees in Manhattan Ray, Is it East Hampton or West Hampton that's banning the bees? :) CC ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Mar 1994 08:01:00 -0800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Kerry Clark 784-2225 fax (604) 784 2299" Subject: Re: plastic frames Jean-Pierre I have some slightly flimsy information on the Pierco frame/foundations. I tried some 10 or so years ago, and inspected a few hundred boxes of the frames used by other beekeepers. On the positive side: a well drawn Pierco frame is a valuable item; it's very strong, the cells are uniform and nearly always worker size. Because of the absence of wood frames, the comb area is significantly larger (I forget the details, you could measure, but my impression was an extra 5 - 10 %, a "bonus" comb in each hive). It doesn't take any labour to put together, and all the frames are uniform. I don't have much experience with their re-use after the first cells are sraped off for whatever reason, I'd think it's significant for honey combs ( and a layer of wax and honey is left), but brood frames sometimes get polished by the bees, and the surface doesn't get re-drawn. (It's not something to plan for maybe, but a bear found the Pierco frames less desireable than wax; some of the plastic foundation were actually still useable after the bear had chewed off the comb,) On the negative side: I found the sharper edges of the frame ends, less comfortable than wood to handle after a while (they never smooth off); Bees seemed to build more "ladder" comb between the plastic frames, perhaps because of the lack of a wood frame barrier, or perhaps because of a shortage of opportunity to build drone comb. Some of this impression came from an earlier version of the frame, maybe the newer one is better. (It might be an idea to provide special frames for drone comb, to focus the colony's drone tendencies. Some might work this into a Varroa trap comb technique) I haven't given this a proper test, but was left with the impression that the frames are less accepted by bees than are wax foundations. It was Ok when the bees didn't have any choice and conditions were great ( eg a swarm) but new Pierco frames added to an existing colony in spring were often ignored, even when syrup was fed. The plastic frame top bar is not as strong or rigid side-to-side, so you may have to change your practice to loosen frames (the Maxant hive tool works nicely, but you have to be careful or you can damage the top of the frame ear.) All in all the frames seemed competant. Each operation would have to do its own economic analysis (one large operator said the plastic frames were less expensive than hiring someone to build wood ones, but there was an advantage to keep good help employed through winter, so he chose the wood). There is also the "plastic" vs "hand-crafted wood" consideration which will differ between people. Regards Kerry ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Mar 1994 13:30:22 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ray Lackey Subject: Re: Bees in Manhattan Neither! It is the village of Westbury in Nassau County. Other towns have had propositions before but we have been able to quiet conflict by going in to town meetings and presenting a logical case. Our "good Neighbor Policy" which has been copied across the country helps. We had one blow-up that was calmed after we found that the little girl stung next to a beekeepers' back yard had been swinging. Investigation and duplication of the scenario produced yellow jackets swarming out of a hole at the base of the swing. Free extermination of the yellow jackets by the beekeeper stopped any further action. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ + Raymond J. Lackey + + Beekeeper 10 years with 25 colonies on Long Island, NY+ + INTERNET: rjl7317@hazeltine.com + + Mail: 1260 Walnut Avenue, Bohemia NY 11617 + + Home Phone: 516-567-1936 FAX: 516-262-8053 + ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Mar 1994 13:51:29 -0500 Reply-To: adamf@hopper.itc.virginia.edu Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Adam Finkelstein Subject: Info Sources for Pollen Collection Looking for info on management of colonies for pollen production and pollen collection apparatus, Thanks, Adam -- =============================================================================== Adam Finkelstein VDACS Apiary Inspector 116 Reservoir St Harrisonburg VA 22801 703-433-1006 (V) 703-434-5607 (Fax) 703-564-4394 (Pager) adamf@hopper.itc.virginia.edu adamf@vtaix.cc.vt.edu |Bees To Please| ================================================================================ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Mar 1994 14:04:00 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jane Power Subject: Re: Whats a BBS? Not that beeing jealous helps, but I am. :) Jane ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Mar 1994 14:07:16 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jane Power Subject: Re: Bees in Manhattan it strikes me that the theme song for your bee yard might be to the tune of "nights in white satin" ...everybody "bees in Manhatten.." ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Mar 1994 13:46:40 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Gary S. Reuter" Subject: Re: Bee tags - continued In message Discussion of Bee Biology writes: > > The bar code gizmo was developed at the Carl Hayden lab in Tucson. They > even got awards for the thing. Problem was, you can't get the bees to > run past the scanner in a way that it can reliably record the information > - bee goes by too fast, wrong orientation, sneaks in the back door, etc. > They need to have a beep like supermarkets so if the tag is not read the bee will back up and try again. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Mar 1994 14:29:11 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Gary S. Reuter" Subject: Re: plastic frames Someone asked me if the plastic might be colder for the bees cluster in the winter because it will transmit heat faster than wood. Anyone know? ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Mar 1994 17:42:37 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jane Power Subject: Re: That poor horse! Aaron Morris wrote re the equinas morte and mentioned that he often gets asked about getting stung when showing bees. I have, on occasion, remarked (with a smile) "Yup, that's my hobby. I stand in a field and get stung. What's your hobby?" Of course, I know the people and it generally gets them thinking. :) Jane ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Mar 1994 21:03:15 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jack Turner Subject: Re: That poor horse! In-Reply-To: <9403212247.AA17523@rvgs.vak12ed.edu>; from "Jane Power" at Mar 21, 94 5:42 pm According to Jane Power: > >> (with a smile) "Yup, that's my hobby. I stand in a field and get stung. Have believed since joining that Jane was out standing in her field. I'm enjoying the discussions very much. In regard to hive covers, I staple a #8 screen over the inner cover hole and prop the top with whatever's handy. This winter I happily did this while thinking of the nice chimney I created and completely forgot to install mouse guards in my ten hives. I was greeted by a family yesterday. Haven't kicked them out yet- thought I'd wait until I catch them sitting around their tiny tea table in a petty family argument and evict them at that moment - teach them about perspective. The idea of a mouse moving around unchallenged rekindled an interest in flicker-fusion frequency that I developed many years ago in an animal behavior class. I noticed guard bees reacting to visual cues that I believed could have only varied in terms of "flicker". I mentioned this in my report (I think only for the brownie point value, since the objective had to do with foraging conditions) and have thought about it off and on since. I have thoughts like "what if certain flowers can be identified by the bee through the relative flicker frequency of their petal fringes with whatever atmospheric air flows across". Some Von Fritsch type work might be interesting. - Jack Turner Route 1, Box 657 Wise, VA 24293 jackturn@rvgs.vak12ed.edu "...there is nothing-absolutely nothing-half so much worth doing as simply messing about..." The Water Rat in Grahame's The Wind in the Willows. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Mar 1994 23:05:07 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Mike Vincent Subject: Swarms This crazy weather is driving everything crazy here in Atlanta( 70 + degrees) Clover's blooming. My local bee supplier is already saying he has capped honey and I got a swarm call today for a HUGE swarm! seeya Mike Vincent matchstic@aol.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Mar 1994 21:28:41 -0800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: John Robert Bidleman Subject: Re: Flame goes out II In-Reply-To: <199403211711.AA15075@mail.crl.com> On Mon, 21 Mar 1994, David F. Verville wrote: > A big thanks to all of you who responed to my mail. RE: Flame goes out. > > I went to the local "Arts and Crafts" store and purchased several > different sizes of wick. I found that even the thickest wick > would not burn properly. So a bought some bucther's cord > and although it burns better, it is still unsatisfactory. > I'm going to try braiding several smaller wicks into one > larger and experiment. > Hint: try using _WICK_ cord...it is for candles. Pulls the liquid wax up. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Mar 1994 09:24:43 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Harvey Hyde Subject: bees You might be interested in knowing that Canada cannot import NZ bees this year because US won't let the plane land in Hawaii. A try for a rout the other way through Japan produced no results also. We here in PEI Canada are also in the enviable position of being disease free. Due to the severe winters however we have a 30% loss in overwintering. Can you suggest where I can find up to date information on this subject? Harvey Hyde hhyde@peinet.pe.ca ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Mar 1994 07:41:36 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Blair J. Sampson" Subject: Re: Swarms In-Reply-To: <9403220407.AA17743@ag.auburn.edu> On Mon, 21 Mar 1994, Mike Vincent wrote: > This crazy weather is driving everything crazy here in Atlanta( 70 + > degrees) Clover's blooming. My local bee supplier is already saying he has > capped honey and I got a swarm call today for a HUGE swarm! > seeya > Mike Vincent > matchstic@aol.com > Mike, we sighted a large swarm here in Auburn, Alabama (March 21). I suppose that hot day last Sunday prompted the swarming behaviour. They nested comfortably in two ornamental cherry trees just short of the greenhouse. The bees formed two clusters in separate trees and then shortly became consolidated into one tree. Why might they break into two masses? Could they be testing the branches support? Curiously yours Blair Sampson ************* Blair Sampson Dept. of Entomology 301 Funchess Hall Auburn University Alabama 36848-5413 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Mar 1994 12:58:37 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Gary S. Reuter" Subject: Re: Swarms In message Discussion of Bee Biology writes: > This crazy weather is driving everything crazy here in Atlanta( 70 + > degrees) Clover's blooming. My local bee supplier is already saying he has > capped honey and I got a swarm call today for a HUGE swarm! > seeya > Mike Vincent > matchstic@aol.com University of Minnesota Department of Entomology 219 Hodson Hall 1980 Folwell Ave. St. Paul, MN 55108-6125 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Mar 1994 14:09:34 CST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Lon Kaufman Subject: Re: Swarms In-Reply-To: Tue, 22 Mar 1994 12:58:37 -0600, from "Gary S. Reuter" I apologize for posting this as a general listing but I no longer know how to remove myself from the noteboard. Please unlist me from beeline Thanks ---Lon Kaufman U12998@UICVM > In message Discussion of Bee Biology writes: >> This crazy weather is driving everything crazy here in Atlanta( 70 + >> degrees) Clover's blooming. My local bee supplier is already saying he has >> capped honey and I got a swarm call today for a HUGE swarm! >> seeya >> Mike Vincent >> matchstic@aol.com > > > University of Minnesota > Department of Entomology > 219 Hodson Hall > 1980 Folwell Ave. > St. Paul, MN 55108-6125 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Mar 1994 16:25:00 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Aaron Morris Subject: The horse moved! I saw it! I know I said I would not waste any more bandwidth on ths, but I'm finding it hard not to respond to Jane Beckman's posting where she asks: > So, is anyone forcing you to go over to Usenet and perform this > function? I have no problem answering "dumb" questions,.... In my posting I chose my words very carefully so as NOT to insinuate that the questions on sci.ag.bees will be dumb. My exact words were: > (I) continue to answer because I know there is a limit to the time > I'll be spending answering simple questions.... ------ In no way, shape or form did I imply that the postings to sci.ag.bees will be "dumb" questions or that Usenet users are mere troglodites. Putting "dumb" in quotations marks attributes to me something that I was very careful not to say. I don't feel that sci.ag.bees will be a dumb/stupid group, and in fact I believe that quality discourse will take place on that newsgroup, should it be created. My point is that due to the difference in the delivery mechanisms (LISTSERV vs Usenet) a Usenet newsgroup will geterate higher volumes of simple questions. AND ocasionally there will be a posting to sci.ag.bees that will regard something that I don't know! And unfortunately, I'll miss that post because I won't be a devoted follower of the newsgroup (too many groups, too little time). This is why I feel that splitting off a sci.ag.bees newsgroup will denigrate BEE-L. Some people will abandon BEE-L for sci.ag.bees. Some people will discover BEE-L via sci.ag.bees and may leave sci.ag.bees for BEE-L. Others will follow both discussions. But the existence of two groups will bleed off expertise from a single group, and both groups will suffer for it. Anyway, I WILL NOT POST AGAIN ON THIS TOPIS. If anyone has more to say to me on this, please move the discussion to private E-MAIL, to spare those on BEE-L who don't want to hear it. By all means, vote on the proposed newsgroup. As they say in Chicago, "Vote early, vote often!" ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Mar 1994 15:32:16 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jane Power Subject: Re: Swarms Gary, I did not receive your message in response to Mike Vicent's. Jane ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Mar 1994 12:56:00 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: NAFIS CHRISTOPHER A Subject: SUBSCRIBE Christopher Nafis Date: 22-MAR-1994 12:54 From: Christopher Nafis, (518) 387-7167, KW-C212A Sender: NAFIS Subject: SUBSCRIBE Christopher Nafis To: bee-l@albnyvm1.bitnet@smtp@tcpgateway -------- Someone at the Southern Adirondack Beekeepers Association mentioned that there were some interesting discussions going on. Could you please add me to your e-mail list... my internet email address is nafis@crd.ge.com (this is not a bitnet address) Thanks! -------- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Mar 1994 20:49:14 -0800 Reply-To: John Robert Bidleman Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: John Robert Bidleman Subject: Re: Swarms In-Reply-To: <199403221859.AA03206@mail.crl.com> > > This crazy weather is driving everything crazy here in Atlanta( 70 + > > degrees) Clover's blooming. My local bee supplier is already saying he has > > capped honey and I got a swarm call today for a HUGE swarm! > > seeya > > Mike Vincent > > matchstic@aol.com Is that unusual? We have been pulling in Eucalyptus nectar and Acacia pollen for about a month now. Fleabane and Mustard look like a carpet in the vineyards. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Mar 1994 20:54:06 -0800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: John Robert Bidleman Subject: The horse is dead long live the horse! In-Reply-To: <199403222134.AA09528@mail.crl.com> Aaron, I must agree with you on all points, re; sci.ag.bee. Not that I _want_ to. :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: : robbee@crl.com : : Robert Box 721 Healdsburg CA 95448 : :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Mar 1994 09:56:25 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: RICHARD E BONNEY Subject: Thanks, folks Thanks to all who responded to my request for information for bee tags to be used on fish.I haven't the slightest idea if any of these will work. The student seemed happy. I am just the messenger. Again, thanks. Dick Bonney, rebon@ent.umass.edu ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Mar 1994 17:14:04 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Gordon L. Scott (U.K.)" <100332.3310@COMPUSERVE.COM> Subject: New Member - Hi. Hello :) I have recently subscribed to bee-l. My wife Sue and I presently run six colonies, mostly of New-Zealand/U.K. crosses in Hampshire, England, and have been beekeepers here for about six years now. It's a little cool here yet so our bees are still building up and not yet causing us any control problems -- about another month before swarming really gets started started. I am Secretary of a local Beekeepers' Association here and I also edit our newsletter. I have a specific interest in exchanging news, views and articles suitable for this type of publication or for use in discussion meetings. Inevitably, we also have interests is those subjects that are not so close to bees -- we have a talk on hornets in April and we have had talks on reptiles & fish in the past [not together :)]. We also have Dr. Larry Connor here at the end of April if anyone is near at the time (28th). To give some other background, our weather is mild and it doesn't rain as much as the world thinks :). Our honey yields are modest to low at around 50lb per colony in a reaonably good year. We have recently confirmed the presence of Varroa and are going through the early stages of mourning in which that seems inevitably to result (info especially useful here). Both AFB and EFB are around but not _too_ serious. Acarine is a minor problem for us _at_the_moment_ as local bees are relatively resistant -- several good strains of UK queens were shipped to the States for breeding a year or two back, I wonder how that went. We don't have Africanised bees. Our plants are often quite different here from the States. Thanks in advance for any responses, Bye for now, Gordon. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Mar 1994 20:23:09 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jane Power Subject: Re: New Member - Hi. Hiho! I am a very cold beekeeper in Northern Ontario, Canada (there is a kicker of a snowstorm as I write), and my sister just moved to Maidenhead of all things--she works in Redding, Readding? Regardless, I hear that the Buckfast queens groom varroa and teach the behaviour. I believe the monks name is Brother Adam of Buckfast Abbey, but you probably know this. I have now passed on what little of know of UK beekeeping. I am a hobbiest, too. My bees endure very cold weather--and die on mass-- in the winter. If my hive goes into the winter at full tilt, I may have as few as 2000 to 3000 in the spring, but then they build like mad. Welcome to the line. Cheers, Jane ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Mar 1994 19:40:44 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Jim G. Shoemaker" Subject: Re: New Member - Hi. In-Reply-To: <9403250044.AA24430@ozarks.sgcl.lib.mo.us> Howdy Gordon: Welcome to the Bee Liner. Lots of information on the "Net", some of it even good. I am a sideline beekeeper with about 30 hives in southwest Missouri (USA). I keep bees because I like to watch and work with them. I especially enjoy starting new colonies and will be doing that during the next month or so. I sell the honey I produce to a honey packer friend who picks it up in the super (comb) then later returns the empty super. Some would consider me lazy but I don't want beekeeping to interfere with my fishing and gardening. Jim Shoemaker 5160 S. Western Brookline, Mo 65619 jshoemak@ozarks.sgcl.lib.mo.us ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Mar 1994 23:40:58 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jack Turner Subject: Re: Flame goes out II In-Reply-To: <9403211720.AA11082@rvgs.vak12ed.edu>; from "David F. Verville" at Mar 21, 94 10:51 am According to David F. Verville: > > A big thanks to all of you who responed to my mail. RE: Flame goes out. > > I went to the local "Arts and Crafts" store and purchased several > different sizes of wick. I found that even the thickest wick > would not burn properly. So a bought some bucther's cord > and although it burns better, it is still unsatisfactory. > I'm going to try braiding several smaller wicks into one > larger and experiment. I have a good book called "Beeswax" by Coggshall and Morse- I think I got it from Wicwas press. Interesting explanations of braiding and other aspects of candlemaking and its history. The braiding produces a right angle which allows the oxidizing portion of the flame to burn it off to stop the afterglow thereby eliminating the need for snuffing equipment. Also mordanting of the wick is important and critical for good conducting - I tried my own with cotton string pretty unsuccessfully and finally bought commercial wicking which isn't priced all that high. Also they last longer if you don't burn the candle at both ends. To the person who gave us the problem about which candle burns longer (I forgot who): Thanks! ------------------ Jack Turner Route 1, Box 657 Wise, VA 24293 jackturn@rvgs.vak12ed.edu "...there is nothing-absolutely nothing-half so much worth doing as simply messing about..." The Water Rat in Grahame's The Wind in the Willows. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Mar 1994 10:11:15 +0100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Bruzzi Giacomo Subject: honey labels Hello friends! I'm thinking about honey labels for my own honey production. This is my first harvest so I'd like it to be memorable. ;-) I'm looking for bee-logos or better for full-designed labels. I'd like to work with Windows Word-6 *wmf* frame format. Thanks. Ciao. GPaolo Vigone (an italian beginner beekeeper!) bruzzi@settimo.italtel.it ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Mar 1994 06:55:02 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Dave D. Cawley, a De Leon Socialist" Subject: Kill Rates? How are the kill rates out there? Here in NE Pennsylvania (wayne co.) the local keepers assn. had their meeting last week and most reported kill rates of around 40%-50%. My friend only lost 6 out of 30 hives, mostly mites, a few starved. No horror stories like last year-one guy lost 48 of 50 hives! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Dave D. Cawley | University Of Scranton | 801 + 1 = 61 Now What? Scranton, Pennsylvania | ddc1@jaguar.uofs.edu | ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Mar 1994 08:25:54 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ramsay Holmes Subject: Re: honey labels In-Reply-To: from "Bruzzi Giacomo" at Mar 25, 94 10:11:15 am A few years ago I was in the same situation. I found a very good drawing of a honeybee in a dictionary so I photocopied it and then Faxed that photocopy to my computer. Using WinFax Pro I was able to scan the drawing which I had Faxed to myself into a WordPerfect format. From there it was simple to design my own label. I presume all this would be just as easy with Word-6. Good luck! > > Hello friends! > > I'm thinking about honey labels for my own honey production. > This is my first harvest so I'd like it to be memorable. ;-) > I'm looking for bee-logos or better for full-designed labels. > I'd like to work with Windows Word-6 *wmf* frame format. > > Thanks. > Ciao. > > GPaolo Vigone > (an italian beginner beekeeper!) > bruzzi@settimo.italtel.it ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Mar 1994 11:26:16 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ed Kear Subject: What to do once varroa has struck? Hi all, I'm a hobbyist beekeeper with one hive that i'm afraid is being decimated by varroa mite. On nice warm spring-like days, the bees come out of the upper hole, fall onto the snow (yes, we still have about a foot and a half of the white stuff), buzz around a little, then die. I'm in the process of setting up additional hives (packages will be here in 3 weeks). Any words of wisdom on reusing equipment from the existing hive? (I assume this colony isn't salvageable. Or is it?) Thanks Ed ebk@mailgate.nyserda.org Galway, NY USA (Southern Adirondack country) ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Mar 1994 17:47:14 +0000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Malcolm Roe Subject: Re: honey labels In-Reply-To: <9403250911.AA00653@ic8ud3.settimo.italtel.it> from "Bruzzi Giacomo" at Mar 25, 94 10:11:15 am > I'm looking for bee-logos or better for full-designed labels. > I'd like to work with Windows Word-6 *wmf* frame format. There's quite a pretty bee picture on a Swedish university anonymous ftp site. It's a GIF image but you may be able to convert it to the format you need. The details are:- ftp.sunet.se pub/pictures/animals/bee.gif If you find any others I'd like to hear from you. I'm looking for bee images myself. Any fairly common format will do. By the way, don't the equipment suppliers in Italy sell labels? They do in the UK and there is such a wide choice that it doesn't seem worth the bother of designing my own. Now, if I were a large scale producer it would be a different matter but then I'd employ a professional designer to do the job as well! -- Malcolm Roe Phone : +44 442 230000 ext 4104 Crosfield Electronics Ltd Fax : +44 442 232301 Hemel Hempstead, Herts. HP2 7RH, UK E-mail : roe@crosfield.co.uk ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Mar 1994 18:07:24 +0000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Malcolm Roe Subject: Re: New Member - Hi. In-Reply-To: <940324221403_100332.3310_BHB36-1@CompuServe.COM> from "Gordon L. Scott" at Mar 24, 94 05:14:04 pm > To give some other background, our weather is mild and it doesn't rain > as much as the world thinks :). Our honey yields are modest to low at > around 50lb per colony in a reaonably good year. Gordon, I must live less than 100 miles from you in, I'd have thought, a rather similar environment but I'd be very disappointed with 50lb per colony. 100 to 150lb is my normal yield, and that's with single brood chamber Nationals. All I can think is that you're not in an OSR growing area. I haven't got varroa yet but it's close. I'll be very lucky to still be uninfected in five years time. It could even be here now. I've started inspecting quite seriously. I'll be doing a Bayvarol 'knock-down' next month. -- Malcolm Roe Phone : +44 442 230000 ext 4104 Crosfield Electronics Ltd Fax : +44 442 232301 Hemel Hempstead, Herts. HP2 7RH, UK E-mail : roe@crosfield.co.uk ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Mar 1994 14:03:04 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ray Lackey Subject: Re: What to do once varroa has struck? You may be jumping to the wrong conclusion. There are always some bees that die in early spring trips. The better check will be when you can open the hive on a nice day. You can reuse after Varroa if you wait at least a month, no basis for that time other than hearsay that all of the old mites would be dead by then. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Mar 1994 14:04:40 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ray Lackey Subject: Re: honey labels the 4-H manuals available in word perfect format from U. Davis have several figures of bees. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Mar 1994 11:01:08 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: William G Lord Subject: winter loss N.C. Re: Winter loss I lost about 10% of my 100 hive operation this winter, mostly from mites, in spite of menthol and TM patties. I have come to expect this level of tracheal mite loss. I just picked up Varroa last summer and do not have significant levels yet. I took a 90% loss in 1987 when tracheal mites hit me first. I intend to be prepared for Varroa. Here in northern North Carolina (USA) the feral colonies have all but disappeared, and many hobby beekeepers have disappeared with them. We have had pollen since February 10, and my bees look good. I am feeding heavily as our honey flow seems to occur the first 3 days of May and then be over. Good hives can make 100 pounds, though 60 is more of the average. Bill Lord -- William G Lord E-Mail : wglord@franklin Internet: wglord@franklin.ces.ncsu.edu Phone : ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Mar 1994 17:52:32 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Gordon L. Scott (U.K.)" <100332.3310@COMPUSERVE.COM> Subject: New Member Thanks to all those who wrote to me both via bee-l and directly. As expected, everyone so far is from the North American continent, so I guess I'll have to work on some more people here! :) Demonstrating how small the world really is, Jane Power tells me her sister lives only about 30 miles from me and works only about 20 miles away in Reading! Jane> I wonder how well or poorly your bees manage in the winter against ours -- ours certainly should do better as our winter is _far_ less severe than yours (have I heard somewhere that 30% losses are typical in Canada?). We do however suffer from a kind of mild dampness which is not good for the bees (or me) and they do tend to eat lots of stores in these conditions. I think though that we get around 10% losses, about half of which is really due to poor winter preparation as many colonies starve about now -- and they shouldn't! More of a concern for us now may be varroa -- in Germany I have heard of 40% losses due directly or indirectly to this little beast and this is where the cold may just help you as the mites have a much harder time if there is no brood! Brother Adam of course is one of those great heros of beekeeping. His work has undoubtedly reached all corners of the world. We (the Association) had the pleasure to visit him a couple of years ago and the visit was a superb pleasure. Brother Adam may be a frail old man of 92 (then) but if starts walking before you do you may have to run to keep up with him! A wonderful man and a wonderful character who has been made by the Abbot to give up beekeeping. Everyone was angry at this imposition, but I suspect that this was mostly to make him slow down a bit. I shall enquire about the suggestion that Buckfast bees groom out varroa, but I suspect that this is a story that grew a bit. I know that he was working in this direction but I supect that it is far too soon yet for success. There have been some experiments with Apis Cerana workers introduced into Apis Mellifera hives (as 'slaves' to help groooming) but without success so far -- but maybe Mellifera will learn from them? Jim> Shipping Honey to a mass honey packer is one of those thing that some do and some don't. Most small-scale UK producers don't -- we're too old fashioned, I think :). Many mainland Europeans do, frequently running co-operatives, and many larger scale British beekeepers do. It certainly beats all the sticky fingers, sticky doors, sticky furniture, sticky cloths, sticky.... I guess I stop there :) Mike> I'm definitely interested in swapping newsletter content, so I'll collect what makes sense to send away and post it. If it's small, on bee-l, if it's large, perhaps I should post direct to those who ask. What's the etiquete here? David> I am still hunting on CompuServe for a beekeeping related forum, so far with no success. If I find anything I'll post it. Good luck starting with the hobby -- you do know that it's more addictive than some illegal substances don't you? :) Thanks again, Bye, Gordon. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 26 Mar 1994 20:49:00 +1300 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: NICKW@WAIKATO.AC.NZ Subject: Foraging distance of honeybees... What is the longest distance that honeybees have been known to fly in search of forage? Here in NZ we often use 3-5 km in describing the area around a hive that bees are likely to travel. I do recall, however, a description of bees found to have flown 8 miles (?) from their hive in the course of some alfalfa research. The researcher was using the Cordovan strain as a marker for some reason in the experiment, and found bees from those hives in fields at the known distance from the only possible source of the bees. Does anyone know that reference? Alternatively, what other references are there to substantiated long distance foraging? ------------------------------------- Nick Wallingford Bay of Plenty Polytechnic (East coast, N Island, New Zealand) Internet nickw@waikato.ac.nz ------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 27 Mar 1994 20:51:00 +1300 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: NICKW@WAIKATO.AC.NZ Subject: The basics of beekeeping A variation of this article (written by me) appeared in the NZ Beekeeper under the pseudonym 'Skep', the name I used to write a series for beginners several years ago. I have revised it only slightly to make it 'stand alone', rather than refer to the other articles in the series. Readers of Bee-List are welcome to reprint into other newsletters - all I ask is that you credit me and send me on a copy when it gets printed! ------------------------------------- Nick Wallingford 55 Watling Street Tauranga, New Zealand Bay of Plenty Polytechnic (East coast, N Island, New Zealand) Internet nickw@waikato.ac.nz ------------------------------------- This article is devoted to an overview of the the essential operations of beekeeping. Beekeepers should regularly critically examine beekeeping practices to see that what they do will satisfy both them and their bees. Arthur Gosset was a very well respected beekeeper in Canterbury, New Zealand. I worked some years ago for Bray and Gosset. Sitting in the smoko room, I remember very clearly some advice he gave me. At the time I was all fired up with complicated and labour intensive methods of getting as much production from a colony as possible. I was dreaming up all sorts of involved and fiddly gadgets and management systems, involving two queening and strange hive designs. Arthur looked at me and simply said that all beekeeping is a matter of watching out for three main things: You must have a young queen in the hive. You must never let them become short of food. You must give them enough room at the right time to store the crop. At the time, as a young(er) man, that was all too simple for me. Where is the 'art' in beekeeping if it can be reduced to that few words? At the time, I even thought he was holding out on me, not letting me in on his 'secrets' of management. Only with more experience have I now come back to his words and realised how true they are. The complexities of beekeeping come with HOW to do the WHAT of those three questions. The methods and timing that you will use to get a queen in the hive, feed the colony if need be and super it up will determine how successful your beekeeping can be. Sugar syrup mixing and feeding and supering up are really topics of their own. There are plenty of options available to you in either operation. Re-queening is another major topic that should be covered more fully than in this article. Of course, with the goal of messing up such a tidy presentation, I would add another few operations to Arthur's three. Knowing how to properly inspect a hive for brood disease should be listed. Another concept I feel strongly about is that of using methods and materials related to the scale of your beekeeping. Disease recognition for the hobbyist is a real poser. Because it is present in such small levels, the odds say if you have only one hive, it will only get infected once every 200 years. (NB: This is based on NZ's average of about 0.5% of hives being found infected annually. Antibiotics are not fed for AFB in NZ - bees are destroyed, though hot paraffin wax dipping can salvage most equipment) Like many other statistical lies, if you trust to that, you'll likely come unstuck. In fact, as a hobbyist, you have several things going against you. Because you'll see cases of disease so rarely, you'll tend to get complacent and even careless in your inspections. After all, after looking for something you don't want to find for some time, its easy enough to decide to stop looking! Because you probably have your one or two hives in an urban location, your's are relatively close to many other hobbyist hives. All it takes is one careless beekeeper to put everyone else nearby at risk. If you're not confident that you can recognise American Brood Disease, talk with a local beekeeper who might be able to help you. Contact your local beekeeper's club and ask if they might be able to arrange a programme to help with disease inspection. Get a copy of the relevant Ag Link from the Ministry of Agriculture and Fisheries or other good photographs. Don't just trust to good luck and the odds; its up to all responsible beekeepers to keep disease levels down. There is nothing wrong with getting a case of disease; it happens to most all beekeepers at one time or another. There is a problem if you don't know how to properly deal with disease and become a source of infection for other beekeepers and your other hives. My other interest, making sure that your approach to your beekeeping is of the appropriate 'scale' is not a difficult one. It is often overlooked by hobbyist (and other...) beekeepers. What I mean is that you don't need to kill flies with a sledge hammer. You are a hobbyist, and your approach to beekeeping should keep that in mind. You don't need to involve a lot of specialised equipment that will only be used once a year. While keeping your specialised equipment costs down, you can take advantage of the time that you can put into your beekeeping. After all, you are doing this as a hobby, remember? You can afford to be a little more exacting than a commercial beekeeper, and do things that involve more trips to the hive, for instance. A good example of keeping your 'scale' in mind is equipment making. You probably won't save much money by making your own boxes and frames, for instance. If you enjoy doing it, go ahead by all means. The scale of your beekeeping should tell you, though, that you'd be better off buying equipment in kitset to assemble. Similarly with honey handling equipment. What started out as a relatively inexpensive hobby can rapidly change to a major expense if you insist on buying a new stainless steel extractor and building a small honey house in your backyard. Sure, this might suit you, and if you are determined to do it, go ahead. A better method for someone with only a few hives, however, would be to share the bare minimum of extracting equipment with several other hobbyists. Often, a local hobbyist beekeepers club will have the basic equipment that can be rented from them for a reasonable daily rate. If not, why not form your own 'syndicate' of 2 or 3 like-minded beekeeper friends and share one set between you? Extracting together can be a truly social event if approached in this manner. I guess what I'm trying to get across with this column is that there are only a few key points to being a good beekeeper, no matter how many hives you have. If you learn how to properly care for the basics, especially Arthur Gosset's three rules of beekeeping, you will be a good beekeeper. Its not hard to get a good crop in a good year. Have you ever heard the saying 'Bees make honey in spite of beekeepers'? It's often true, you know... If you are a GOOD beekeeper, you'll get a honey crop in that mediocre season when others get little or nothing. Your hives will be gentle enough that you don't upset your neighbours or become a nuisance. Your hives will be tidy enough that an Apiary Inspector will not have to attack the glued up frames with a spade. The details of how you go about taking care of the important aspects of beekeeping, re-queening, feeding and supering at the right time, are the subject of all the talk of beekeepers and the books and the magazines. Learning what methods work for you in your location for a particular season is the 'art' of beekeeping. Now you've finished this short article, sit back and think about your own beekeeping systems. Are you taking care of the fundamentals? Are you re-queening at least every 2 years? Has your hive always had at least two good frames of honey or stores provided by feeding sugar to them? Do you give them the extra room that they need when they need it? If you do, then you can move ahead to the 'fine tuning' of more intricate management systems, such as two-queening or complicated dividing/uniting procedures suited to your local requirements. If you can't honestly say you are taking care of the basics, make that your special goal over the coming season and see what a difference it makes. Young queens, with reduced swarming levels and smooth, rapid, reliable build up. Colonies that never get the set back of running short of food. Hives that get the new honey super before the bees have started to pack out the brood nest. What a difference they all make! Why is it always such a surprise that the beekeepers who consistently get the best crops are the ones that sit quietly at the back of the room and claim they don't have any special tricks or gadgets to share? ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 27 Mar 1994 13:17:18 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Dave D. Cawley, a De Leon Socialist" Subject: Opinion on Queen Excluders? Hi Folks! I'm going to buy my first queen excluder and want some opinions on what kind to get. I know that plastic is bad cos it has sharp edges that rip the bees as they go through. I'm wavering between a wooden one and a wire one. The difference between them, to me, is $3.00 and 1 lb. in shipping, but what about the bees? Which one would you use? Thanks! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Dave D. Cawley | Where a social revolution is pending and, University Of Scranton | for whatever reason, is not accomplished, Scranton, Pennsylvania | reaction is the only alternative. ddc1@jaguar.uofs.edu | -Daniel De Leon ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 27 Mar 1994 12:45:31 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Jim G. Shoemaker" Subject: Re: Opinion on Queen Excluders? In-Reply-To: <9403271814.AA17267@ozarks.sgcl.lib.mo.us> Hello Dave: Are you really sure you want to use queen excluders? I use two deep bodies for my bees and seldom have any problem with the queen laying in my honey supers. I also, but not always, reverse my hive bodies to keep any space in frames in the top body. I have a few excluders and on occassion may put one on but generally they are stacked in my garage. I do plan to use some of them this year to try Nick Wallingford's (New Zealand) technique for requeening or dividing a colony without finding the queen. If you decide you must use excluders, I would suggest the welded wire with wooden frames. Be sure to paint the edge of the frames. Good luck with your exclusionary process. Jim Shoemaker 5160 S. Western Btrookline, MO (near Springfield) ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 27 Mar 1994 15:55:31 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Gordon L. Scott (U.K.)" <100332.3310@COMPUSERVE.COM> Subject: Honey Yield in UK Hello Malcolm! Long time no see. :) My last letter to Bee-L said what a small world this was, but I really hadn't expected to meet an old friend and workmate with the same hobby and the same editing job via a mailing list in the States. I suspect the difference between our yield figures reflect the way we take our average, rather than any significant difference in actual yield. I agree that yields here in the last few years have often been _much_ better than the figure I quoted. The figure I quoted is a perhaps slightly out of date long term rolling average across all stocks and is the figure used by the UK Bee Farmers' Association. Many colonies in recent years certainly have made 100 to 150lb (some much more) but some die in the winter so produce nil; some swarm and produce very little as a consequence; Some just don't do too well. Some years are also bad and we should consider all these factors. It doesn't take many minor problems like these to knock a large yield away to a much smaller average. Don't get me wrong here, I'm not saying that you or anyone else can't get these figures, but I would say that _most_ hobby beekeepers fool themselves if they think they do _much_ better than the professionals. Equally of course, for the pros, honey yield per colony is not the only way to calculate performance as pollination and queen breeding are also major factors, so the pros don't always add thing up the way we do. For Sue and I personally, the last two years have been pretty desperate as we had a severe outbreak of EFB which would not respond to treatment and all our colonies on that site were eventually destroyed. Our yield for five colonies last year was the 30 or so pounds I got from a nuke on another site and which went into winter as four newly queened nukes. That will ruin our personal average yield for a year or two. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 27 Mar 1994 20:28:57 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jack Turner Subject: Re: Opinion on Queen Excluders? In-Reply-To: <9403271822.AA20865@rvgs.vak12ed.edu>; from "Dave D. Cawley, a De Leon Socialist" at Mar 27, 94 1:17 pm I like the wooden rimmed wire excluders best, possibly without good reason. I'm not sure the plastic ones do any tearing. I'm sure the old galvanized excluders must be some problem to the bees. Last summer I had good luck (black locust, then sourwood) with no brood in the honey supers without the use of excluders. I had previously had trouble with acceptance (would unhappily find very few bees above the excluder after plenty of time had passed). Overcame that problem by placing a super and waiting a week or so - then lifting it to install the excluder, but last summer, I forgot to go back. -- Jack Turner Route 1, Box 657 Wise, VA 24293 jackturn@rvgs.vak12ed.edu "...there is nothing-absolutely nothing-half so much worth doing as simply messing about..." The Water Rat in Grahame's The Wind in the Willows. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Mar 1994 09:40:30 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jane Power Subject: Re: What to do once varroa has struck? Hi Ed, if this is the only sign you are experiencing then this is just winter die. The bees are considerate enough to die outside the hive on many occasions--now that sounds stupid, they do only die once!:)--you many occasions--now that sounds stupid, they do only die once!:)--you ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Mar 1994 09:46:58 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jane Power Subject: Re: Opinion on Queen Excluders? Dave, I use wire and it works just fine. I have never heard of woooden ones of course, that means little as I am on a steep learning curve:) Jane ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Mar 1994 10:43:08 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ed Kear Subject: Re[2]: What to do once varroa has struck? >Jane Power >Subject: Re: What to do once varroa has struck? >------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > >Hi Ed, if this is the only sign you are experiencing then this is just >winter die. The bees are considerate enough to die outside the hive on >many occasions--now that sounds stupid, they do only die once!:) Maybe you are right. But the mass of bees inside the hive is smaller than the mass of dead bees outside, and I have yet to see a bee fly. Ed ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Mar 1994 11:11:40 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "James E. Tew" Subject: Files available by anonymous ftp A group of files have been loaded at OARDC for retrieval by anonymous ftp. These files contain general information on bees and beekeeping. Other data and information are being added to the data base as it becomes available. Future areas will include AHB distribution maps in image form and a data base on current bee research activities. This is a new system. We encourage your use and suggestions and contributions. Currently, there is information on-line in the following areas: 1. Africanized honey bees (Directory): USDA fact sheets on various aspects of Africanized honey bee biology and behavior. 2. Basic Beekeeping (File): Currently one short factsheet on general beekeeping. This area will be converted to a directory as more material is added. 3. Diseases (Directory): USDA disease publication #690. Covers all common bee diseases and pests in the U.S. 4. Index (File): Lists the various files and directories in the data base. 5. Model Honey Bee Certification Plan (Compressed File): The suggested model plan developed cooperatively with USDA and the beekeeping industry for regulating various aspects of the bee industry. The model plan is for use by individual states either partially or in total. 6. Newsletters (Directory): Back issues of APIS, the apicultural newsletter from the University of Florida. In the future, back issues of Apiculture Awareness (ES-USDA) will also be added. 7. Sources of Beekeeping Information (File): A list of sources of books, manufacturers, periodicals, and addresses for the U.S. beekeeping industry. To access these files, connect by ftp to sun1.oardc.ohio-state.edu. Use username 'anonymous' with a password of 'guest'. Change directory (cd) to /pub/bee-info and you will be in the parent bee directory. Files may then be retrieved with the 'get' command. Most files are ascii, the exceptions being the image files and the files which have been zipped to save space. These files should be retrieved using the binary (or bget) option. Questions, problems, offers of contributions for distribution should be directed to postmaster@sun1.oardc.ohio-state.edu. ************************************************************ James E. Tew Ph.D. * Tew.1@OSU.EDU Department of Entomology * (216)263-3684 1680 Madison Avenue * FAX (216)262-2720 OARDC - The Ohio State University Wooster, Ohio 44691 *********************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Mar 1994 11:25:24 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Adam Finkelstein Subject: Re: Files available by anonymous ftp In-Reply-To: <199403281615.AA35758@Hopper.itc.Virginia.EDU> from "James E. Tew" at Mar 28, 94 11:11:40 am Jim, this is excellent to offer an anonymous ftp for bee stuff. I will disseminate the info to places on the net bee people frequent if thats ok with you. The id: jef2f@livia.acs.virginia.edu is now adamf@hopper.itc.virginia.edu FYI. (on the header of this message...livia is no longer) Would you please vote on the bee newsgroup if you haven't already? thanks Adam -- =============================================================================== Adam Finkelstein VDACS Apiary Inspector 116 Reservoir St Harrisonburg VA 22801 703-433-1006 (V) 703-434-5607 (Fax) 703-564-4394 (Pager) adamf@hopper.itc.virginia.edu adamf@vtaix.cc.vt.edu |Bees To Please| ================================================================================ FIRST CALL FOR VOTES (of 2) unmoderated group sci.agriculture.beekeeping Newsgroups line: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Beekeeping, bee-culture and hive products. Votes must be received by 23:59:59 UTC, 5 April 1994. After the CFV appears on news.announce.newgroups it will be sent to and mailing lists. This vote is being conducted by a neutral third party. For voting questions only contact rdippold@qualcomm.com. For questions about the proposed group contact Adam Finkelstein . CHARTER Discussion on all aspects of beekeeping,bee-culture, and products of the hive. Sci.agriculture.beekeeping will provide beekeepers, bee scientists, farmers, and the general public one place for apicultural information. A FAQ is needed for bee-culture and beekeeping from African bees, to bee venom therapy. The curious are invited to discuss bee lore or ask questions, and the experienced beekeepers will be able to advise and help with the anecdotal information so necessary to beekeeping. HOW TO VOTE Send MAIL to: voting@qualcomm.com Your mail message should contain one of the following statements: I vote YES on sci.agriculture.beekeeping I vote NO on sci.agriculture.beekeeping You may also ABSTAIN in place of YES/NO - this will not affect the outcome. Anything else may be rejected by the automatic vote counting program. The votetaker will respond to your received ballots with a personal acknowledge- ment by mail - if you do not receive one within several days, try again. It's your responsibility to make sure your vote is registered correctly. One vote counted per person, no more than one per account. Addresses and votes of all voters will be published in the final voting results list. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Mar 1994 11:19:22 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Carlos Hernan Vergara Bricenio Subject: Re: Foraging distance of honeybees... In-Reply-To: <9403260855.AA20445@pue.udlap.mx> On Sat, 26 Mar 1994 NICKW@WAIKATO.AC.NZ wrote: > What is the longest distance that honeybees have been known to > fly in search of forage? > > Here in NZ we often use 3-5 km in describing the area around a > hive that bees are likely to travel. > > I do recall, however, a description of bees found to have flown 8 > miles (?) from their hive in the course of some alfalfa research. > The researcher was using the Cordovan strain as a marker for some > reason in the experiment, and found bees from those hives in > fields at the known distance from the only possible source of the > bees. > > Does anyone know that reference? Alternatively, what other > references are there to substantiated long distance foraging? > > ------------------------------------- > Nick Wallingford > Bay of Plenty Polytechnic > (East coast, N Island, New Zealand) > Internet nickw@waikato.ac.nz > ------------------------------------- I did some research on foraging distances of African honey bees in a tropical forest in Panama, using their dance comunication . The longest distance I could measure with precision was 13,669.7 meters and I had some dancers that were indicating they were flying farther, but after this distance the curve turns asymptotic so, no precise reading is possible. There is a reference to a similar work done with European honey bees: Visscher, P. K. & T. D. Seeley. 1982. Ecology 63 (6): 1790-1801 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Mar 1994 13:52:06 +0000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Rick Hough Subject: RE>Kill Rates? Dave recently queried about "Kill Rates" - I prefer to call it the "winter survival rate"!! Anyhow, I got into my hives over the weekend - 9 out of 10 hives have made it so far. The first hints of pollen are coming in, in spite of some snow still on the ground. The snow is finally starting to melt due to warmer temperatures, although the weathermen are predicting cooler temps this week, with possible sleet/snow tomorrow (boo!), so spring hasn't really started here (yet). I'm starting to get optimistic, though, that I will have 8 or 9 hives to start this season with. Rick Hough, a beekeeper from Hamilton, MA, USA (NE of Boston) rshough@tasc.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Mar 1994 17:10:35 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jane Power Subject: Re: Re[2]: What to do once varroa has struck? Hi Ed, have you opened the hive? I ask because I had a similar experience --massive die--not a lot of flight and came away varroa free at exam time. I hope you are free of crawlies. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Mar 1994 14:30:00 -0800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Paul van Westendorp 576-5600 Fax: 576-5652" Subject: Re: Foraging distance of honeybees... Nick, You refered to a maximum foraging distance of 8 miles. This sounds about right. The research was done in the 60's or 70's by Dr. Don Peer as Researcher for Agriculture Canada in Ontario. Due to high bee densities, Peer chose to use the distinct Cordovan strain with its genetic marker. I do not know the exact title of the publication, where it was published, and when. Similar research was carried out by Dr. Tibor Szabo in the early 80's. He did not use genetic markers but chose 'honey bee free' areas in northern Canada. Instead of faraging distance, bees were tested for maximum mating distance. The results were quite remarkable in that queens were mated successfully at distances of up to 26 kilometers. (I suppose passing on one's genes generates a higher level of motivation, than filling one's tummy! And this is not unique to bees!). I am not certain whether Szabo ever published his findings. Paul van Westendorp PVANWESTEN@galaxy.gov.bc.ca Provincial Apiculturist B.C. Ministry of Agriculture, Fisheries & Food 17720 - 57th Ave Surrey, B.C. CANADA, V3S 4P9 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Mar 1994 20:07:55 -0800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: John Robert Bidleman Subject: varroa In-Reply-To: <199403251931.AA20058@mail.crl.com> I had an interesting conversation with Ormond Aebi in Santa Cruz this weekend and was surprised to hear that the beekeepers contacting him throughout the past twelve months have reported 100% losses, most contributed to varroa. Is there any information regarding the severity of varroa in relation to climate? (in addition to the obvious cold weather thread). After a two day hike in Nisene Marks, Rio Del Mar and Boulder Creek (all areas familiar to me re; feral bees) I was shocked to see a complete absence of honeybees on such a warm still day. The Eucalyptus and floral flow is intense. At one spot I shook a small branch of low hanging Eucalyptus and the nectar splashed onto the leaves. The flow is on the weather was perfect for flying and there was nothing but a few sweat bees and some Bombus moving about. Ormond requested me to post a couple of observations of his in order to get a few responses ie; collaboration or correction to his views. One is that the drones seem to carry the mites from one hive to another. Another is that the varroa are capable of entering bees of all ages that they enter young brood and then mature killing the bee later in life. Also, do the mites thrive after the local bee population has been decimated? Do they simply die off with no bees to host them? He is currently using Apistan strips on his last _two_ hives. I was really saddened to hear of all of Ormonds losses. He and his father are rather revered for their beekeeping lore and knowledge as evidenced by their books on beekeeping and their local support to all the beekeepers in Santa Cruz and surrounding counties. He estimated that there were less than a dozen kept hives in the county. One possibilty to the extreme conditions in Santa Cruz, which I posed to him is that detection and treatment came to late. He agreed with this somewhat but argued that he was dilligent in treatment and he has suffered badly. I am going back next week to confirm the severity of bee loss more "scientifically" if anyone can mail me any suggestions as to why they have been hit so hard please do. Thanks :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: : robbee@crl.com : : Robert Box 721 Healdsburg CA 95448 : :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 29 Mar 1994 22:43:51 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "La Reine de la Cite' des Phoques (Liz Day)" Subject: Re: Foraging distance of honeybees... While we're at it, any long-distance records for bumblebee foragers? Just curious.. Liz Day University of Illinois at Chicago day@eecs.uic.edu ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 30 Mar 1994 08:36:00 -0800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Kerry Clark 784-2225 fax (604) 784 2299" Subject: Formic effect on queens? Below are some notes from a conversation with a beekeeper who felt he= has=20 experienced queen loss from the use of formic acid. I'd be interested= to hear of=20 other similar situations. He had 120 colonies in 2 box hives in fall 1993. Concerned with tracheal mites, he got some 85 % formic acid and dilut= ed to 65 %. Using a liquor dipenser, he lifted the box and poured 30 - 40 ml ont= o the=20 bottom boards of 60 of the hives, in September, evenings, 65 - 70= =B0F, 3 times at=20 1 week intervals. Immediately after application, bees bubbled out of = some hives=20 but not others. The other 60 hives stayed untreated. In late January, early Feb, he briefly looked at all hives and was pl= eased to=20 find all alive, better than in other years. Hives not treated in fall: In late Feb, however, he noticed large numbers of bees dead or dying = outside a=20 group of untreated hives. He took samples of bees, concentrating on t= he dying=20 hives. The samples were checked and found to be heavily infested with= tracheal=20 mites. In about the first week of March, about 20 of the 60 untreated= colonies=20 were found either dead or very weak. On March 11 (and 18?), he treated the remaining untreated hives with = formic=20 acid, on napkins on the top bars (about 10 =B0C). On March 29, one of= these=20 treated colonies was found to have a virgin queen (from the loss of t= he original=20 queen on March 11?). Another hive had no brood but acted queenright a= nd was not=20 checked further. Hives treated in fall: In mid-late March, these colonies were inspected. 12 to 15 (of 60) ha= d "queen=20 problems". In most cases this was "no worker brood" and the colonies = were=20 amalgamated with others without further examination. In a few cases, = the drone=20 brood eggs were examined and found to be singles, indicating a (drone= laying)=20 queen. In 2 or 3 others, queens were found, but no worker brood. Act= ual absence=20 of a queen (laying workers ) was not confirmed in these colonies.= =20 Interpretation (this might be a good Beemaster question) (Is this an example of queen loss from formic acid use?) I'd say the Mar 29 observation of a virgin was quite possibly a resul= t of queen=20 loss on Mar 11, maybe triggered by formic acid disturbance.=20 The apparently large proportion of queen problems in the fall treated= group of=20 colonies is less clear. Without knowing if the queens were indeed gon= e, it's=20 hard not to have a reasonable doubt that the treatments were the caus= e. I don't=20 know of any recorded cases of formic acid exposure causing queens to = become=20 drone layers, and the mode of such an action is hard for me to imagin= e. In future? It might be a good idea for beekeepers who use formic acid= , to check=20 the treated hives for queenrightness, within a few days after the fin= al=20 treatment (about 15 days after first exposure). The presence of emerg= ency cells=20 and unemerged worker brood would be good evidence of formic induced q= ueen loss.=20 When the possibility of "months ago" queen "loss" or "damage" appears= ,=20 beekeepers should distinguish between queen "absent" or "drone laying= ", then=20 perhaps we can narrow down the circumstances under which actual loss = may occur. (Although European reports indicate one might expect up to 10 % queen= loss, it=20 is not consistent. Some have treated hundreds of colonies without any= noticeable=20 loss) Since unplanned-for fall queen loss has a more serious effect than si= milar loss=20 in spring, an option would be to use formic acid around May, when col= onies could=20 requeen themselves if necessary (this spring option might not be as e= ffective=20 against varroa, since most would be in cells). An adjustment to the f= all option=20 would be to plan for fall queen loss by producing summer queens, and = check=20 treated colonies early enough in fall to replace any queens that were= lost (this=20 is more work).=20 Again, any similar observations or discussion would be appreciated. Kerry Clark, Apiculture Specialist B.C. Ministry of Agriculture 1201 103 Ave=20 Dawson Creek B.C.=20 =09V1G 4J2 CANADA=09=09 Tel (604) 784-2225=09fax (604) 784-2299=20 INTERNET KCLARK@GALAXY.GOV.BC.CA ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 31 Mar 1994 15:21:26 +0200 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Bruzzi Giacomo Subject: bio-mechanic varroa fight Hi I read about a *ecological* method to fight varroa mites, by an italian beekeeper Michele Campero, based on a three sector frame. It is a bio-mechanic method. You have to cut one of the three male brood sectors every 7 days. Expected mites reduction is about 40-50%. What do you think about it? Sorry for possible English mistakes. Ciao. GPaolo Vigone - Italy ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 31 Mar 1994 08:05:00 -0800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Kerry Clark 784-2225 fax (604) 784 2299" Subject: Re: bio-mechanic varroa fight It's a variation of the "drone brood removal" or "sacrificial drone brood" method? 1) Any of these require a fair amount of careful work (if the drone brood isn't removed on time, it increases varroa production rather than decreasing it); 2) the bees put quite a bit of resources (feeding, incubation energy and space) into a slab of drone brood raised to capping. Discarding it may seem less harmfull than killing a couple of thousand workers, but may be just as much of a drain; 3) 40 - 50 % reduction, according to estimates that 90 % reduction per year is required to co-exist with varroa, would only be adequate if some other reduction was occurring in the colonies. Regardless of the theoretical problems, if it works, great! Where varroa is just getting established, it might work for a year or too, until varroa gets to a damage threshold. (actually, year 3 -4 of varroa establishment might be the worst, since at that point, lots of un-managed colonies will be alive but heavily infested, so reinfestation of managed colonies will be rapid..when the unmanaged colonies have perished, the varroa incidence should decrease). Where varroa has become well established, I think a control should show a 4 year period of success, before it could be judged adequate. By the way, are you aware of any recent news regarding the reports of fluvalinate resistant varroa in northern Italy? I have 3 brief papers from '93 in Italian which I hope to have translated enough to assess, but the abstract says "the results suggest that varroa had become resistant to fluvalinate". (I see in one of the papers (Marletto, F. 1993. Recrudescence of varroa disease. Apicolt. mod. 84 3 - 6.) a photo of the 3 section drone frame you describe. Kerry Clark, Apiculture Specialist B.C. Ministry of Agriculture 1201 103 Ave Dawson Creek B.C. V1G 4J2 CANADA Tel (604) 784-2225 fax (604) 784-2299 INTERNET KCLARK@GALAXY.GOV.BC.CA ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 31 Mar 1994 17:17:03 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jane Power Subject: Re: New Member Hi Gordon! Winters are very hard on my bees. This winter was one of usually oops I mean unusual snow levels--read low snow levels--and low temperatures. We had 57 days of -20C or colder in a row! I lost some hives. My harvest is on track with yours. Varroa--wait until I throw salt over my shoulder-- haveleft me alone although I worry when my new nucs arrive, the beasts will too. I live in a fairly isolated place, and there are no large apiaries anywhere near me. So hopefully, the varroa will crawl on by. I hope to get to England next summer to visit my sister. I just might check out your yard. :) Cheers, Jane ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 31 Mar 1994 15:56:00 -0800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: John Gates 604 549-5580 Subject: Re: Pollen Interesting to hear about queen rearing early in the season in Montana. Our experience is similar. From the mid 70's to the mid 80's we ran a bee breeding project in the Southern Interior of the province of British Columbia Canada. Our area bears some similarities to the climate near Missoula. We would finish our winter evaluations in the latter part of February, do our statistical analysis, choose queen mothers and drone mothers for the new year and begin drone rearing sometime in the last week of February. Some years we would be working in a foot of snow at that time. By the first week of April we had mature drones ready to instrumentally inseminate selected virgins. In some years we also mated queens in isolation in our valley bottoms. We weren't too worried about mismatings because there usually weren't many "natural" drones around at that time. However, we did take precautions. We kept good weather readings over the course of the project and I continue to monitor temperatures for early season matings. Invariably we will experience temperatures permitting matings sometime between the last week of March and the first 2-3 weeks of April. We've had virgins waiting in our nucs for as long as 28 days, then mate and perform well. With our system it was necessary to gear up as early as possible. Timing was critical. We wanted to be able to produce packages headed by our inseminated queens and run them through an entire production season for evaluation- similar to the way people were running packages imported from California at that time. John Gates, Apiculture Specialist B.C. Ministry of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food 4607, 23rd. St. Vernon, B.C. Canada, V1T 4K7 Ph:( 604) 549-5580 fax:(604) 549-5488 Internet:JGates@galaxy.gov.bc.ca ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 31 Mar 1994 23:40:04 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Sharon Labchuk Subject: wanted: subscription info Would someone please send me information about this list and how to subscribe. Thanks. Sharon Labchuk labchuk@peien.pe.ca