From LISTSERV@UACSC2.ALBANY.EDU Sat Oct 1 01:28:18 1994 Date: Sat, 1 Oct 1994 01:48:17 -0400 From: BITNET list server at ALBNYVM1 To: Allen Dick Subject: File: "BEE-L LOG9409" ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 1 Sep 1994 08:16:37 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jane Power Subject: Re: Query about queen cells Thanks for the note! :) It was my beebuddy's hive and she got them nasty... She says she has tried everything she can think of...from the time she got them home as a nuc she says she has kept the weeds down, has been skunk free, isn't overcrowded in the yard, etc. We are stymied. Again, I appreciate your response to our help cry :) Cheers, Jane. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 1 Sep 1994 07:58:00 CST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Matt Ter Molen Subject: Re: Drone Foundation Ross Rounds AHB Russell, I have a few ideas which may or may not help. The first: I have found that my bees (Italians from Weaver, their All-American) prefer to draw out almost anything but duragilt. If I place crimp wire foundation and mix it with duragilt, the bees always seem to start on the non-plastic base foundation first. Maybe your hives preferred starting on the non-duragilt foundation before being forced to work the duragilt? I have read that bees like to have a certain percentage of the population in the hive to be drones. It might be that by limiting drone population in a hive that we are "prompting" the bees to produce drones. The last idea I have is that I believe that the AHB has not yet reached Weaver (Navasota, TX). Weaver produces a brochure that they send along with an order that covers this topic. I would suggest contac ting them. I think that the gist of the article is that with drone saturation they feel that they can achieve over 95% certainty that a cross will be European. It is based on reseach conducted in Mexico that was published recently in ABJ. Hope this helps. By the way, my wife works for IITRI here in Chicago. I didn't realize that IITRI had office s out in Maryland. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 1 Sep 1994 17:26:35 +0100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jean-Marie Van Dyck Subject: Pollination deed for orchards ? Hi bee lovers ! For some years we had discussions between beekeepers (all "amateur" - there is no one business beekeeping in Belgium) and fruit-growers (all business). the problem : how to estimate the service value (and the remuneration) of the pollination by honeybee hives in the orchards (mainly cherry, pear and apple trees but also small fruit bushs). does anybody know about a kind of pollination deed for orchards ? all ideas are welcome ... thanks in advance Jean-Marie Van Dyck snail : B.P. 102 5000-NAMUR (Belgium) ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 1 Sep 1994 10:37:00 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "WRRSCH::BELLR" Subject: looking for a beekeeper, John Kooiman. I am trying to get in touch with a beekeeper, John Kooiman. The last address that I have for him is in Minnesota. If anyone knows how I can contact him I would really appreciate it. An address or phone number, or E-mail address would be super! Ron Bell ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 1 Sep 1994 12:47:21 +0000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Rick Hough Subject: National Honey Month For those of you who care about such things....... September is National Honey Month in the USA. Additional info & promotional kits are available from the National Honey Board. Cheers! Rick Hough rshough@tasc.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 1 Sep 1994 12:44:38 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Mike Ober Subject: Re: New catalog >Expect delivery of our new catalog this week, with book, slide and video list >of current bee/beekeeping/social insect titles. Will send a free copy to any >Bee-L people who request it. Also, if you have a club or class, I will ship >them in bulk. Indicate the number you require. Again, no charge. Mail address >is: > >BES/Wicwas Press >Larry Connor, Ph.D., Owner >P. O. Box 817 >Cheshire CT 06410 USA > > Larry the association would love to have a copy on hand. Thanks, Mike Ober Richmond BeeKeepers Association Rt 2 Box 1198 Hanover, Va 23069 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 1 Sep 1994 15:09:00 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: James Macdonald 576-2911 Subject: Re: Pollination deed for orchards ? Jean-Marie, The best reference I know of relating to your query is a publication issued by the USDA in 1976 entitled "Insect Pollination of Cultivated Plants" by S.E. McGregor. Agriculture Handbook No. 496 For sale by the Superintendent of Documents, U.S. Government Printing Office Washington, D.C. 20402 Stock No. 001-000-03549-5 Hope this is of some help. mac ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 1 Sep 1994 15:46:00 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Kerry Clark 784-2225 fax (604) 784 2299" Subject: Re: Making grease patties Regular granulated sugar is OK for patties, and cheaper, and maybe easier to blend. Small quantities of patties can be made by mixing the sugar and antibiotic dry with a rotary beater (Mixmaster) and adding the solid shortening or oil. Larger quantities can be made with a commercial dough hook blender. If you leave it blend too long it will turn into fluffy cake icing. Heating would likely have a bad effect on the antibiotic. Kerry Clark, Apiculture Specialist B.C. Ministry of Agriculture 1201 103 Ave Dawson Creek B.C. V1G 4J2 CANADA Tel (604) 784-2225 fax (604) 784-2299 INTERNET KCLARK@GALAXY.GOV.BC.CA ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 1 Sep 1994 19:08:36 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: John Bongiovanni Subject: Packing for winter Having just moved to Cleveland OH area from Texas - I'm planning to wrap my hives up for the winter w/ black building paper etc... When is the proper time to do that up here in the North? Obviously, it's not done down South. Pls. reply to: : /``` . || : @@--9 `` .";; " (0) || |||||||||||||| : <\,\\_ ` '"" (((0))) || When pleasure :\\ ^/(8)\\ " ", ((((0)))) || Remains... : \\((0))// `" "((((0)))))) || Can It Remain : ///\\\ //\ (((((("))))))) || A Pleasure! : // \\// ---- ||jbongie@delphi.com || |||||||||||||| | _\\ ======= ||John C. Bongiovanni|| ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 1 Sep 1994 15:56:00 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Kerry Clark 784-2225 fax (604) 784 2299" Subject: Re: Pollination deed for orchards ? The value of bee pollination can be estimated as: unit value of the crop x increased crop resulting from pollination say $ 1 per kg x increase of 50 kg per hectare = $ 50 per ha or total value of crop x proportion attributable to pollination say $ 300 per ha x 30 % = $ 90 per ha Fruit growers likely have a good idea of the proportion (although they might understate it) since they ask for pollination services. Although these may be the value of pollination, the pollination fee is affected by the market (hive supply, beekeeper's options). A base value may be the value of the beekeeper's time in moving hives to the pollination site, considering how the colonies will do there, relative to leaving them where they are. regards Kerry Clark, Apiculture Specialist B.C. Ministry of Agriculture 1201 103 Ave Dawson Creek B.C. V1G 4J2 CANADA Tel (604) 784-2225 fax (604) 784-2299 INTERNET KCLARK@GALAXY.GOV.BC.CA ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 1 Sep 1994 19:38:01 PDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Dave Pehling Organization: WSU CAHE USER Subject: Re: Hive Products In-Reply-To: Message of Wed, 31 Aug 1994 18:51:02 -0400 from RE: Eating Bee Brood I have eaten bee brood several times and find it delicious! Very like very tiny, sweet shrimp! By the way, shrimp and crabs would think nothing of feeding on a rotting corpse, while baby bees are fed only the finest honey and pollen. I find it interesting to explore various food sources that are all around us and wonder if world hunger would be less of a problem if more people would have more of an adventurous spirit about new foods. (This, from someone who absolutely REFUSED to eat raw tomatos as a child!) I prefer my bee brood lightly fried in oil and mixed with vegetables. One dish I've made is "Peas & Bees" - very tasty. A word of caution, however... I have read that bee larvae are very high in a particular vitamin and could possibly be toxic if consumed in large quantities. (So are raw garden peas, for that matter.) The biggest problem with bee brood as a food source is removing the tasty morsels from their snug little cells. I have seen a video of someone removing drone larvae from a comb with a fine jet of water but have not tried it myself. I usually pick my own "brood-for-food" out of burr comb I scrape off while working my hives. Give it a try...you'll like it! Cheers, Dave Pehling =========================================== | W.S.U./SNOHOMISH CO. COOPERATIVE EXTENSION | | 600 128TH ST. S.E. | | EVERETT, WA. 98208 U.S.A. | |PHONE - (206)338-2400 | |FAX - (206)338-3994 | |INTERNET CE6431@WSUVM1.CSC.WSU.EDU | ============================================ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 1 Sep 1994 22:06:51 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Rob Bidleman Subject: Re: Hive Products In-Reply-To: <199409020256.AA01493@mail.crl.com> On Thu, 1 Sep 1994, Dave Pehling wrote: > I have eaten bee brood several times and find it delicious! Very like > very tiny, sweet shrimp! By the way, shrimp and crabs would think nothing ** I have been producing royal jelly for personal use for about 17 years. Not long after I started I neglected to remove every jelly frame from one hive. When I had discovered this it was too late so I wondered at what stage the cells were at. I remember reading about Africans eating other larvae and tried one. OK so it wasn't terrible but I've never eaten another. I'd rather have fried grasshoppers any day, NOW there's a meal. I've often wondered about the availablity of forage in extremely depressed famine areas in India and Africa. It seems living in a desert has its drawbacks. Has anyone ever seriously thought of the possibility of using bee products in areas such as this? Rob ---------------------------------------------------===robbee@crl.com===--- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 31 Aug 1994 22:00:14 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Michael Moroney Subject: Re: Hive Products In-Reply-To: <199409010033.AA05894@world.std.com> > Someone told me that people were eating bee larva. > Is this true? Why? Ych. > How are they collecting them and preparing them? > thanks I've also heard that people find wax moth larva (the ones that infest abandoned bee hives) tasty. -Mike ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 31 Aug 1994 21:48:17 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Michael Moroney Subject: Re: Drone Foundation Ross Rounds AHB In-Reply-To: <199409010032.AA05775@world.std.com> I've heard of foundation that has cells intermediate in size between drone and worker cells. The idea is it can be used for honey without use of a queen excluder, since the queen will not lay eggs in cells of the weird size. Does this work? > Note: I keep my hives fairly clean of burr comb and the drone > population is fairly insignificant except in one hive where the > queen crossed honey and laid in the test drone sheets (I had > "thousands" of drones before I figured out what she had done). ... > Further observation (although probably unrelated): The colony > where the queen crossed the honey to lay has a verroa mite > infestation. Probably _not_ unrelated. Varroa prefer drone brood to breed. You had a varroa breeding chamber for a while. Apparently a chemical-free method for varroa control is to add some drone foundation to the brood chamber. After the cells are capped but before the drones hatch the frame is removed and the brood destroyed. More drone foundation is added. Don't do this if you aren't sure you can get back in there before the brood emerges. Else you may be breeding varroa! -Mike ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 2 Sep 1994 22:01:00 +1200 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: NICKW@WAIKATO.AC.NZ Subject: References: Value of Bkpg... I've been recently writing a discussion paper on the value of beekeeping to New Zealand horticulture and agriculture. I thought the list might find some of my references useful (and add on to them, too!): Matheson, Andrew and Schrader, Mark. The value of honey bees to New Zealand's primary production. MAF Nelson. 1987. 5 pp. McGregor, S E. Pollination of crops. Beekeeping in the United States. Agriculture Handbook 135. United States Department of Agriculture. Revised Oct 1980. pp 116-117. Barclay, John S and Moffett, Joseph O. The pollination value of honey bees to wildlife. American Bee Journal. July 1984:497-498, 551. Levin, M D. Value of bee pollination to US agriculture. Bulletin of the Entomological Society of America. Winter 1983. 29(4):50-51. (later reprinted as: Levin, M D. Value of bee pollination to US agriculture. American Bee Journal March 1984:184-186.) Stanger, Ward. Honey bee pollination in California. American Bee Journal. Sept 1967:334-336. Moffett, Joseph O and Barclay, John S. The value of honey bees to gardens, home orchards, and ornamentals. American Bee Journal. Oct 1984:724-726. Lord, William. The untold pollination story. American Bee Journal. May 1985:341-342. Robinson, Willard S, Nowogrodzki, Richard and Morse, Roger A. The value of honey bees as pollinators of US crops. American Bee Journal. June 1989:411-423 and July 1989:477-487. --------------------------------------------------- Nick Wallingford President, National Beekeepers Assn of New Zealand Internet nickw@waikato.ac.nz --------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 2 Sep 1994 13:25:00 +0002 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Krell, Rainer" Subject: Re: eating bee larvae They are delicious raw, fried and boiled. If fried in olive oil with a little garlic or without they have a very rich, I would say nutty, flavour. They become crunchy and a delicious snack and don't look much like beelarvae any more. Wax moth larvae I have not tried yet, but they are said to pop like popcorn when deep fried and should be similarly tasty as bee larvae. Insects are eaten all around the world and are usually considered a special delicacy. In Mexico, a large caterpillar on the Agave is sold locally and canned for export at a price higher than caviar. There are of course also several cook books on preparing insects and not only honey bee larvae. FAO's new bulletin on hive products has a chapter on harvesting, preparing and cooking bee and wax moth larvae (to be published by the end of this year). Also a chapter on hive products in the 1992 edition of the hive and the honey bee describes how to harvest the larvae and gives a description of something like a Nepalese bee omlette. I simply uncap an evenly sealed frame of brood with a very sharp knife, pour water into the cells and shake the whole thing out onto a large tray. The water jet method is possible but not very practical in the field. It's best of course with drone brood and particularly when removing drone brood for Varroa control, assuming no Varroacides have been applied etc. The larvae get damaged easily during uncapping and their content is lost if large quantities of water are used. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 2 Sep 1994 16:45:16 +0100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Malcolm Roe Subject: Removal of Honey Set in the Comb. Of course I try to avoid honey setting in the comb but every now and then I'm caught. Usually it's a whole super so I cut the combs from the frames, fit new foundation and separate the wax from the honey using heat. This year the pattern is completely different. I know why - the available forage has been different and so, in response, has my management but I didn't get things quite right. Anyway, the problem is this: after extracting I find many of my frames have lots of odd patches of set honey - sometimes just single cells, more often patches of tens or hundreds of cells. At least 50% of my frames are seriously affected. I suppose I could just ignore it and put them on again next year but my experience is that the bees usually just put more honey on top rather than cleaning the cells up first so I would only be postponing the problem. On the other hand I'm loath to replace over half my foundation in one year. It's not just the cost. It'll take quite a lot of time. One possibility is to put the supers back on for a time now. There is very little nectar coming in so I suspect they'd be cleaned up quite well if I left them on long enough. Unfortunately there is still some forage so I suspect that if I left the supers on sufficiently long for the crystallised honey to be removed they'd start putting honey back elsewhere! A more serious objection is that I need to start winter feeding soon and I can't do that while the supers are on. At the moment my inclination is to replace the worst and ignore the rest. However, if anyone's got any bright ideas I'd be interested to hear them. -- Malcolm Roe Phone : +44 442 230000 ext 5104 Crosfield Electronics Ltd Fax : +44 442 232301 Hemel Hempstead, Herts. HP2 7RH, UK E-mail : roe@crosfield.co.uk ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 2 Sep 1994 09:42:24 PDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Chris Laughbon Subject: Re: eating bee brood > Dave Pehling writes : >RE: Eating Bee Brood >I have eaten bee brood several times and find it delicious! Very like >very tiny, sweet shrimp! ....stuff deleted..... >A word of caution, however... I have read that bee larvae are very high in >a particular vitamin and could possibly be toxic if consumed in large >quantities. (So are raw garden peas, for that matter.) I don't think I'll lose too much sleep over this one! ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 2 Sep 1994 11:10:10 PDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jane Beckman Subject: Re: eating bee larvae I have had bee larvae as a stuffing for wonton, and they were pretty good. They have a vaguely shrimplike quality, with just a touch of honey taste--- rather gourmet, I'd say! They seem ideally suited for Chinese food. (Hmm, and look at some of the other odd things that end up in Chinese food.) I've also dined on crickets, ants, and termites. Bees are definitely the best of the alternatives, with the best flavor. Jane B. [jane@swdc.stratus.com] ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 2 Sep 1994 12:34:00 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Kerry Clark 784-2225 fax (604) 784 2299" Subject: Re: Removal of Honey Set in the Comb. It can be a big problem for operations with hundreds of supers like that. For a few hives, Try putting the super with bits of honey on the hive, but under the brood nest rather than above. As preparations for winter, the bees will remove this honey and move it up to the brood area. It works with frames of nectar too unripe to extract but in danger of fermenting if removed, or little patches of honey too small to bother extracting. I think it could work with crystallised honey, depending on how inclined the bees are to store the honey. Try it for a few days before feeding, it might surprise you how fast they clean it up. I would try to avoid feeding syrup at the same time, but it might still work. good luck Kerry Clark, Apiculture Specialist B.C. Ministry of Agriculture 1201 103 Ave Dawson Creek B.C. V1G 4J2 CANADA Tel (604) 784-2225 fax (604) 784-2299 INTERNET KCLARK@GALAXY.GOV.BC.CA ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 2 Sep 1994 12:58:36 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Richard Spear Subject: Re: Hive Products In-Reply-To: <01HGMXKH92YAB7IIIY@HAMLET.CALTECH.EDU> On Wed, 31 Aug 1994, Michael Moroney wrote: > > Someone told me that people were eating bee larva. > > Is this true? Why? Ych. > > How are they collecting them and preparing them? > > thanks > > I've also heard that people find wax moth larva (the ones that infest > abandoned bee hives) tasty. > > -Mike i lost the original message, so i am replying to the original via mike's reply ... thanks mike! many traditional cultures eat their honey with the wax, brood and all! i guess that there's a protein benefit from doing this regards, richard rspear@sookit.jpl.nasa.gov ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 2 Sep 1994 22:24:36 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Yale Simkin Subject: Evolution of Honeybee Behavior Hi... I have a question about the evolution of recruiting behavior in honeybees. As you know, when a worker finds a food source, she returns to the hive and conducts a quite elaborate dance. This informs the other workers as to the direction and distance of the food supply. This behavior must have evolved in a step-wise manner, beginning with some sort of pre-adaptation that was gradually modified and elaborated. I have been unable to discover any generally available references that describes this particular process. I recognize that the actual steps may be unretrievable history, but I am simply interested in PLAUSIBLE pathways, sufficient to demonstrate the adequacy of step-wise evolution by natural selection to produce elaborate instinctual behavior. Thanks for any assistance. ---yale YaleS@aol.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 2 Sep 1994 20:41:00 MDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Allen Dick 546-2588 Subject: Bee Escapes Has anyone made or know of a study of bee escapes? I have been playing with the type known in Canada as the 'Quebec' Bee escape. It consists of an inner cover with a one and a half inch hole drilled in the centre. One one side is triangle formed by three 1/4 inch by 1/4 inch sticks. The corners of the triangle are open about 1/4 inch, and a triangular piece of 6X6 mesh hardware cloth is stapled over the sticks. When it is placed (triangle side down) on a super or brood chamber and supers with bees are stacked on top, the bees tend to migrate down through its three small holes and leave the supers free of bees. My questions: 1. What are the reasons that the bees go down? 2. Why are there always (apparently) young bees dead on the screen? 3. What is the optimal configuaration? I have made them with four corners (square). They seem to work well. 4. What is the optimal width for the corner openings? 5. What is the optimal size for the centre hole? I'm a commercial beekeeper and haven't the time for detailed study, but am quite curious. I assume that both Quebec and cone escapes make use of geometry and the sensory idiosyncracies of bees, but, I suspect each relies on a different principal. I propose that a cone escape uses visual deception and secondarily an opening that is much more obvious - given a bee's sense of feel - from the inside than from the outside, however the Quebec escape is used in complete darkness and must rely on feel alone. It is easier to find the single door to exit, say, a small public washroom in the dark , than to find the entry door when in a large hallway, possibly with many doors. I would appreciate any references or discussion that might enable me to make the best possible board. We do not like repellants, and the abandonment method on which we rely is very awkward when foul weather intervenes, resulting in robbing. Also weekends are a problem - honey pulled on a Friday might have to be picked up Saturday. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 3 Sep 1994 00:28:39 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Liz Day Subject: eating larvae Other people can eat larvae, ..... but I think maybe I won't. Liz Day Indianapolis, Indiana, USA lday@gluon.phys.ufl.edu ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 3 Sep 1994 00:31:11 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Phil Veldhuis Subject: Re: Evolution of Honeybee Behavior In-Reply-To: <9409030249.AA27004@canopus.CC.UManitoba.CA> from "Yale Simkin" at Sep 2, 94 10:24:36 pm Yale Simkin insightfully writes: > > Hi... > I have a question about the evolution of recruiting behavior in honeybees. As > you know, when a worker finds a food source, she returns to the hive and > conducts a quite elaborate dance. This informs the other workers as to the > direction and distance of the food supply. 1. According to the current theoretical fashion, that's the story... See Wenner & Wells 1990 for criticism of theory. This behavior must have evolved in > a step-wise manner, beginning with some sort of pre-adaptation that was > gradually modified and elaborated. I wonder about your use of the word "must". But this seems plausible. I have been unable to discover any > generally available references that describes this particular process. I > recognize that the actual steps may be unretrievable history, but I am simply > interested in PLAUSIBLE pathways, sufficient to demonstrate the adequacy of > step-wise evolution by natural selection to produce elaborate instinctual > behavior. See last 1/2 of chapter 3 of Von Frisch (1950/1971) Cornell Uni Press, for something of this sort. I should warn you that: 1. It is fallacious to ever say that anything "evolved". Doing so is teleological and contra orthodox Darwinism. 1a. Everyone (including all scientists) do 1. so you might as well too. 2. The Dance language theory is especially vulnerable to 1. for an interesting discussion of Darwinism, you might want to see "vaulting Ambition" by Philip kitcher (1985) MIT Press. Hope this helps... Phil. -- ------------oooooooooooooooOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOooooooooooooo------------- Phil Veldhuis | "if something is not worth doing, Winnipeg. MB, Canada | it is not worth doing right" veldhui@cc.umanitoba.ca | Dave Barry (1985) ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 3 Sep 1994 10:36:26 EST Reply-To: bugman@biology.watstar.uwaterloo.ca Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Steve Smith Organization: University of Waterloo Subject: Abbreviation "mio" ? Koeniger et al. (Apidologie, 25: 224-238, 1994) counted spermatozoa in drones and inseminated females of Apis koschevnikovi. Drones, for example, were reported to have 1.7 +/- 0.16 "mio" spermatozoa. I'm not familiar with the unit "mio"; I suspect that it is a German short form for "million" (i.e. 10^6). Can anyone confirm this? Thanks, -- steve bugman@biology.watstar.uwaterloo.ca Stephen M. Smith, Biology, Univ. Waterloo, Waterloo, ON Canada N2L 3G1 (Please send files >50K to: bugman@sciborg.uwaterloo.ca) ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 3 Sep 1994 17:35:00 BST-1 Reply-To: rbunce@cix.compulink.co.uk Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Richard Bunce Subject: 'Chewing Wax' On holiday in Germany this summer, I saw a market stall selling hive products including jars labelled 'KAUWACHS' (Chewing wax). It appeared to be nothing more than minced up pieces of comb, presumably from frames which had been extracted. It was priced at 7 Marks, which was a lot more than a jar of honey. I've never seen it anywhere else. Is it a German speciality, or is someone being enterprising and trying to create a demand for a new product? Richard Bunce. (Rbunce@cix.compulink.co.uk) ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 3 Sep 1994 12:41:33 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jim Osborn Subject: Re: Removal of Honey Set in the Comb. I've heard of people having some success warming the supers with heat lamps before extracting, but this only works with mild cases of sugaring. A more serious problem is that small quantities of honey crystals left in the cells will act as seeds for rapid crystalization of the next crop. You better make sure they do a very thorough cleaning or those will always be troublesome frames that will need rapid extraction. My bees have been enthusiastic cleaners if I wait until cold weather to give them wet supers above an inner cover. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 4 Sep 1994 11:27:47 +1200 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Cliff Van Eaton Subject: References: Value of Bkpg... -Reply Also: Gill, RA (1989) The value of pollination services in Australia. Australasian Beekeeper 91(6): 256, 258, 260-261, 264, 266-268, 274-275. Gill, RA (1988) An economic evaluation of alternative management practices and enterprise structures in the Australian beekeeping industry. in Rhodes, JW ed. Proceedings of the Second Australian and Internation Beekeeping Congress. Fed. Council of Austalian Apiarists' Assn, Brisbane. Southwick, L; Southwich, EE (1989) A comment on 'Value of Honey Bees As Pollinators of US Crops' American Bee Journal 129(12): 805-807. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 4 Sep 1994 16:10:00 +1200 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: NICKW@WAIKATO.AC.NZ Subject: Bee escapes... The following is part of an article that appeared in the NZ Beekeeper in Autumn 1986. It was part of a beginners series I wrote under the name 'Skep'. After the article, I'll give some further references on escapes: ============================================================= ... For most hobbyist beekeepers I highly recommend the use of the bee escape board for taking off honey. Though they might have disadvantages for a commercial beekeeper, they suit the style of most hobbyist beekeepers down to a 'B'. The escape board is inserted into the hive below the boxes of honey that are to be removed. It acts as a 'one way gate', allowing bees to move down through it, but not letting them back up into the supers. As soon as all, or most all, of the bees have moved down through the escape board, the boxes of honey now empty of bees can be lifted from the hive. For elegance of construction in the field of beekeeping gadgetry some of the designs of bee escapes are hard to beat. I'll only describe two of the most common, as they are all equally effective. The Porter bee escape is probably the oldest and most commonly used. This device causes the bees moving down through the escape to push through two spring wires. After passing through, the bees are unable to return. Each of the escapes has two exits. Most beekeepers when constructing escape boards mount two of the escapes in each, giving a total of four exits down into the hive. This may speed the movement of bees down through the board, but more importantly it gives a bit of insurance should one escape get blocked. This can easily happen with either a drone getting stuck or the bees waxing or gluing up the fine wires. I prefer the designs of escapes with no moving parts. They all seem to work on the same basic principle: Bees can be easily channelled through a funnel, but they find it very difficult to come back in through the small end. Before waxing eloquent on the use of bee escape boards, I'll admit they have some drawbacks. They do require some planning ahead. You won't be able to just suddenly decide that now is the time to take off your honey. The boards work surprisingly quickly, but I find I need to leave them on overnight in most cases. Another disadvantage is that bees will just not leave some boxes. This can be true when using fume boards as well. If brood is present in the supers to be cleared of bees, especially unsealed brood, or if there is broken burr comb, the bees will be very reluctant to leave the boxes. If this is the case, you may have to do some shaking and brushing. There is a certain knack as well to inserting the boards into the hive without first having to lift off the supers. If you are going to lift off the supers and replace them on the escape board, I would suggest breaking the boxes apart with your hive tool several days before. This will give the bees time to clean up the dripping honey from the broken burr comb. They will then tend to leave the boxes much quicker. One last 'trap for young players'. Don't put the escape board on the hive upside down. It won't work that way, will it? And don't look so smug; its easy enough to do. Try painting the top of the board a different colour so you'll notice it as you place it on the hive. One of the greatest bits of information I've picked up in recent years is that a 50 mm rim around the bottom of the escape board will make it clear more quickly. It seems that the bees coming down through the escapes are rather slow to actually fan out into the lower box. Giving them this clustering space seems to cut down the 'bottleneck' at the escape exit. One of the real advantages of the escape board over other ways of clearing supers of bees is that there is minimal disturbance. If you are in an urban situation, it is essential that you not be a nuisance to your neighbors. Used properly, escapes can be inserted and boxes of honey lifted off with no need to declare the beeyard 'off limits', and no danger of innocent bystanders being stung. ... ========================================== References: Skep (Wallingford, Nick). Taking honey from the hives. NZ Beekeeper. Autumn 1986. pp 15-17. Taylor, Richard. Bee Talk. Gleanings in Bee Culture, August 1985, pp 412-413. Describes a 'down and out' escape screen. Screened board with Porter bee escapes fitted so bees can escape down into hive or to outside the hive. Also has description of bee escapes and use in general. Tew, Dr. James E. Beekeeping Technology. Gleanings in Bee Culture, (damn! I don't have month/year on the page!), p 566. Describes Quebec bee escape board. No moving parts. Based on 'funnel' principle, allowing bees to crawl out the (open) points of a triangle of wood strips. Second triangle outside that ensures that bees can't find their way back into opening. Rodie, J E. Use of bee escapes for removal of honey. NZ Journal of Agriculture, 95:561-526 (1957). Use of Porter escapes. Describes how to lift boxes and place escape boards in without lifting off the honey boxes. Morse, Dr Roger A. Bee escapes for removing honey. Gleanings in Bee Culture. July 1969. pp 393-396. Stresses importance of not breaking supers above escape (bees won't leave dripping burr comb). Describes putting board in by one person "A protruding stomach helped" (to push the board into place). Forster, I W. Equipment for manipulation of beehives. NZ Journal of Agriculture, 88:242-244. Describes use of super breaker and super props to insert escape boards without lifting honey boxes off. Sharparew, V. A conical bee escape board. Gleanings in Bee Culture. September 1981, pp 512, 516. Uses about 10 plastic cones (with bee sized hole at pointed end) in central escape 'channel' in escape board. Simple, non clogging. Stresses importance of deep rim on bottom of escape board, up to 3, 4 or even 6 inches. This allows bees to cluster after going through escapes, then disperse into hive below. Achieved 24 clearing of supers. Clemson, A A. The use of escape boards for clearing supers of bees. The Australian Beekeeper. Jan 15, 1980. pp 139-145. Escape board with (no moving parts) escape in each corner (based on 'funnel' principle, again). Multi-use board (shutter that closes over the hole to turn it into normal 'split board'). Also describes use of escape boards placed upside down on top of supers of honey - any bees still in the boxes leave the supers and cannot return. Sorry about the Southern Hemisphere references! --------------------------------------------------- Nick Wallingford President, National Beekeepers Assn of New Zealand Internet nickw@waikato.ac.nz --------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 4 Sep 1994 07:02:00 GMT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: ANDY NACHBAUR Organization: Wild Bee's BBS 209-826-8107 Subject: 'Chewing Wax' Subject: 'Chewing Wax' On holiday in Germany this summer, I saw a market stall selling hive products including jars labelled 'KAUWACHS' (Chewing wax). It appeared to be nothing more than minced up pieces of comb, presumably from frames which had been extracted. It was priced at 7 Marks, which was a lot more than a jar of honey. I've never seen it anywhere else. Is it a German speciality, or is someone being enterprising and trying to create a demand for a new product? Richard Bunce. (Rbunce@cix.compulink.co.uk) Hi Richard, When I a was a boy, and ice and milk, with cream, were delivered to the home, honey was also dropped off at the door to my home in Monterey, California, 1940's. It came in quart fruit jars and always had a layer of clean white wax capping on top. Like the first one to the milk got all the cream, the first one to the honey got all the "chewing wax". And like the cream we thought that was the best part of the honey. I am sure the reason for the wax on top was to give visual proof that it was pure honey, and not some kind of sugar syrup. I have seen beekeepers at different times selling just capping wax with honey, the problem they run into is the honey tends to crystallize fast. A few years ago in one health food craze cycle pollen was also gouged out with the wax and honey, then you add the problems of pollen worms, (mis named wax worms), with the granulated honey. This all keeps the market limited to local customers and in fact would be in violation of many state laws here that say honey shall bee 100% pure honey, and if anything else is in the same jar it must be labeled adulterated. (in big print) Not too good for sales.... ttul Andy- ___ ___ ___ ___ ___ ___ ___ ___ ___/ \___/ \___/ \___/ \___/ \___/ \___/ \___/ \___ / \___/ \___/ \___/ \___/XXX\___/ \___/ \___/ \___/XXX\ \___/ \___/ \___/ \___/ \XXX/:::\___/:::\___/:::\___/:::\XXX/ /XXX\ For INDEX of Beekeeping FAQs`::::::::::::::::::::::::::::/ \ \XXX/ e-mail to: hint.ind@beenet.com `:::::::::::::::::::::::\___/ / \ __ __ `:::::::::::::::/ \ \___/ / \ \^+^/ / \ Andy Nachbaur `::::::\___/ / \ \ \(O O)/ / Wild Bee's BBS `:::/ \ \___/ \ \\_// //-->> BEENET.COM `:\___/ / \ ------oOO--Y--OOo---------------------------- :/ \ \___/ ___ ___ ___ ___ ___ ___ ___ \___/ / \___/ \___/ \___/ \___/ \___/ \___/XXX\___/ \___/ \ \___/ \___/XXX\___/ \___/ \___/ \___/ \XXX/ \___/ \___/ \___/ \XXX/ \___/ \___/ \___/ \___/ \___/ \___/ ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 4 Sep 1994 10:01:29 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Diana Sammataro Subject: Re: grease patties In-Reply-To: <199408252122.RAA23775@postbox.acs.ohio-state.edu> from "James Macdonald 576-2911" at Aug 25, 94 10:59:00 am > > I am interested in the same problem/question...I have just been to a bulk > wholesale wharehouse to look for a large quantity of vegetable shortening > and noticed there are different preservatives as well as different oils > used by various manufacturers of this product. The recipe recommended by > Dr. Bill Wilson lists Crisco shortening specifically and I wonder if > anyone has experiance and/or information concerning the use of other > brands of shortening. Crisco is considerably more expensive. > > > mac > NO ONE HAS LOOKED INTO THIS ASPECT OF THE GREASE PATTY QUESTION. SOME RESEARCHERS HAVE LOOKED INTO DIFFERENT OILS AND WHILE THERE IS SOME VARIATION, OIL WORKS IF USED PROPERLY. A GOOD QUESTION THOUGH. DIANA SAMMATARO ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 4 Sep 1994 10:23:42 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Blair J. Sampson" Subject: Re: eating bee brood In-Reply-To: <9409022000.AA08631@ag.auburn.edu> I have eaten larvae excavated for native bee burrows, Yummy. They tasted like Tang! However, their flavour depends on what kind of pollen the founderess fed to them. I have eaten a few larvae which unmistakenly dined on dandelion (Taraxacum spp.) pollen, YUUCKK!!!, the taste lasted for days in my mouth. Chez l'abeille Blair Blair Sampson Dept. of Entomology Auburn University Alabama 36849-5413 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 5 Sep 1994 11:58:17 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Marion Bristow Subject: Re: eating bee brood Bail [D [D Your a sick pupy !!! ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 5 Sep 1994 12:50:01 MDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Allen Dick 546-2588 Subject: Re: Bee escapes... Thanks for the detailed and documented response regarding bee escapes. I had not realised that the bees do not like to leave dripping ladder comb. Actually one of the advantages I have observed using this method is that they tend to clean up the mess before they go - an advantage when producing comb sections. I have tended to leave the escapes on for anywhere from 24 to 48 or more hours to ensure uniform clearing. The idea of clust cluster space is new to me too - although it certainly makes sense when one considers reducing a seven storey hive temporarily to three or four. Otherwise who could stack all the supers back on above an escape board, or shove an escape board in for that matter. I am still looking for optimal measurements for the Quebec style, seeing as the Porter type do clog, get damaged eaasily in commercial use, and, I believe, are relatively slow. The type using cones may be good, but cost more, and are also subject to damage in hard use (hired student help). Once again, Thanks ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 5 Sep 1994 15:11:25 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Malcolm (Tom) Sanford, Florida Extension Apiculturist" Subject: September issue of APIS Distributed to: USR:[MTS]INTERNET.DIS;29, MT, MTS FILENAME: SEPAPIS.94 Florida Extension Beekeeping Newsletter Apis--Apicultural Information and Issues (ISSN 0889-3764) Volume 12, Number 10, September 1994 Paul Cutts Dies Mr. Paul Cutts, head of the Cutts beekeeping clan in Florida, died July 16 in Dothan, Alabama at the age of 91. Mr. Cutts' father kept bees in Alabama for honey production, but Paul moved the business to a queen-rearing focus early in his career. From 1915 to 1945, the business was based near Montgomery, Alabama. However, the demise of the great tulip poplar forests in the area, cut down to aid the World War II effort, caused the Cutts clan to migrate to Chipley in Florida's panhandle. During the next three decades, Cutts' queens were in great demand throughout the United States and Canada. In 1978, Mr. Cutts moved into semi-retirement, relocating in winter to Copeland, Florida in an effort to take advantage of rearing queens early in the season. In 1985, health problems caused he and his wife, Inez, to move back to Chipley. Throughout his life, Mr. Paul Cutts served the beekeeping industry in many ways. He was president of numerous associations, including: Tupelo Beekeepers Association, Florida State Beekeepers Association, Southern States Beekeepers Federation, and the Alabama Beekeepers Association. Mr. Cutts, one of Florida's true pioneer beekeepers, was given the Florida State Beekeepers Association's Beekeeper of the Year Award for his efforts in developing the queen-rearing industry in the state. He was a charter member of the American Bee Breeders Association and held the presidency of that organization. He was also an Honorary Kentucky Colonel and a Woodman of the World. SEPTEMBER IS NATIONAL HONEY MONTH The National Honey Board asks everyone to join with Mike Espy, U.S. Secretary of Agriculture who has declared September as National Honey Month. The Board has distributed a good many "Honey Month" kits to food editors, freelance writers and supermarket consultants. These kits are still available and can be ordered from Tracy Baker, National Honey Board, 421 21st. Ave., #203, Longmont, CO 80501-1421, ph 800-553-7162. TERRAMYCIN (R) USE IN EXTENDER PATTIES There continues to be a good deal of discussion about Terramycin (R) use in bee colonies. This is especially true with reference to vegetable oil "extender patties." Dr. Keith Delaplane at the University of Georgia recently coauthored an article with Dr. Fernando Lozano, who works for Pfizer, Inc., the manufacturer of Terramycin (R). The article, entitled "Using Terramycin (R) in Honey Bee Colonies," American Bee Journal, Vol. 134, No. 4, April 1994, pp. 259-261, emphasizes several important points: 1. Terramycin (R) is the only medication approved for preventing and controlling American and European foulbrood. 2. Pfizer, Inc. makes three formulations for bees: TM-50D, TM- 100D and TM-25, also known as Terramycin Soluble Powder (TSP). 3. TM-50 D contains 50 grams of active ingredient per pound; TM- 100D contains 100 grams of active ingredient per pound and TM-25 contains 25 grams of active ingredient per pound, but is packaged in 6.4 ounce foil packs, each containing 10 grams of active ingredient. 4. At least three bee supply companies reformulate Pfizer Terramycin (R) products into medications under different brand names. 5. Not all Terramycin (R) products are safe for bees; only those that have labels for honey bees should and can legally be used. 6. The product most readily available in small quantities--TSP or TM-25--has a label which creates confusion. It uses "impractically small units (teaspoons and ounces)," contains a reference to TM-10 (a cancelled product) and has no instructions for mixing antibiotic extender patties. 7. Extender patties allow Terramycin (R) to be delivered for up to several weeks with only one trip to the beehive. The oil in extender patties has also been shown to deter tracheal mites. The original idea of extender patties comes from work by Dr. Bill Wilson and colleagues entitled "Antibiotic Treatments That Last Longer," American Bee Journal, September, 1970, pp. 348-351. The recipe in that article, thought to be the best in most cases, has been published many times, including the July 1992 APIS. It is 1/3 lb Crisco (R), 2/3 lb granulated sugar, two (2) tablespoons of TSP or TM-25, yielding two patties. Later, Dr. Wilson found that a patty half as large was satisfactory and would last six weeks (see R. Morse and H. Shimanuki, "Summary of Control Methods," Honey Bee Pests, Predators, and Diseases, edited by R. Morse and R. Nowogrodzki, Cornell University Press, second edition, 1990, p. 348). The article by Drs. Delaplane and Lozano has recipes for all Pfizer products formulated as dust, syrup and patties. The TSP "dosage guide" for extender patties is as follows: No. 6.4 Oz Lbs Vegetable Lbs Powdered Colonies treated Packets TSP shortening sugar 1 lb patty/colony 1 4.6 9.1 14 2 9.1 18.2 28 3 13.7 27.4 42 4 18.2 36.5 56 5 22.8 45.6 70 The authors state that the TSP, powdered sugar and vegetable shortening should be mixed together and each colony be fed a patty on the top bars. They also urge removal of any remaining material at least four (4) weeks before the honey flow and that any honey stored while patties are on a colony must not be used for human consumption. Finally, they state that extender patties require a higher dosage of medication per colony (up to 800 mg active ingredient) to provide adequate active ingredient levels. This means that fewer colonies can be treated with the same amount of active ingredient using the extender patty method. Since the publication of the above article by Drs. Delaplane and Lozano, there have been postings on the BEE-L Internet discussion list indicating that several concerns about extender patties remain. The first is whether they have a label and are legal. In his Spring 1991 B-Plus Newsletter from Michigan State University, Dr. Roger Hoopingarner declared the patties legal from his perspective. One major reason for using commercially prepared patties is they come with a label. Drs. Delaplane and Lozano stated that the FDA has approved extender patties as a "delivery method" for Terramycin (R) and that Pfizer, Inc. is working on a label for TM-25. For now, the only thing beekeepers really can reference with TSP is what's published in the article. Both TM-50D and TM-100D are clearly labelled for bee use and their labels contain instructions for use. Anyone wishing to see all the recipes published by Drs. Delaplane and Lozano can request a copy of their article from me. The next issue concerns the ingredients. What difference is there, if any, between patties made with granulated sugar and those made with powdered sugar? This was not addressed in the article. And what kind of vegetable oil might be best? Dr. Wilson's first recipes called for Crisco (R), yet apparently any solid vegetable oil (not animal fat found in lard!) will do, according to the article. Kerry Clark, Apiculture Specialist in British Columbia, Canada wrote on the Internet that he has examined the labels of various vegetable oils and shortenings. The Crisco (R) label says that it "may" contain a variety of oils. In western Canada it could be canola oil, whereas in the eastern states, corn or soya oil. He has also seen extender patties made with a variety of vegetable oils and hydrogenated vegetable oils (solid shortening), as well as used, semi-solid oil from deep frying. Mixing of the ingredients is also a consideration. There can be problems getting a uniform distribution of Terramycin (R) throughout a patty. Drs. Delaplane and Lozano mention that mixing is especially important with concentrated products like TM-50D and TM-100D and a commercial-sized mixer might be necessary. At least one commercial formulation is mixed using a proprietary process. The reason for this was discussed in the July 1992 APIS. It is possible that inadequate mixing could be responsible for different results in patty use reported over the years. Patty placement may also be responsible for effectiveness. Mr. P.F. (Roy) Thurber, writing in the 1980 and 1981 Speedy Bee, "Medication and Comb Rotation for AFB," said bees must be forced to eat the patties. This is accomplished by placing them so they interfere with feeding the brood, ventilating the colony, and/or ripening honey. He concluded: "...what good would a patty do if placed under the lid of a 5-story hive with bees in only the three lower supers? Obviously none, but patties have been placed that way and then called ineffective when the colony became diseased." Finally, what about storage life? Mr. Clark guesses that an extender patty without antibiotic would last several years (as long as its physical properties look reasonable), while one with antibiotic would have a shelf life about the same as the expiration date of the antibiotic. Dr. Hoopingarner in his 1991 newsletter urged beekeepers to watch the color of a patty made with TM-25. If the yellow color turns orange or reddish, the patty "probably has lost its effectiveness." HONEY IN FROZEN DESSERTS The National Honey Board funded a recent study to explore the optimal level of honey use in dairy desserts. Dr. R. Bradley at the University of Wisconsin conducted the research designed to: 1. Develop a honey-based ice cream with controlled freeze-thaw stability. 2. Develop a honey-based ice cream that ranks high on consumer scoring. 3. Determine if honey-sweetened frozen yogurt has consumer acceptance. The results were published in Honey Hotline, No. 2, 1994, newsletter of the National Honey Board Food Technology Program, P.O. Box 281525, San Francisco, CA 94128-1525, ph 1-800-356-5941. In summary, the study showed that honey-based ice creams were preferred, at least as much and often more, than sucrose-based products. Storing the products for 60 days at -10 degrees F also showed them to be comparable to other ice creams. The most acceptable ice cream in terms of shelflife and consumer acceptance was formulated with 13 percent milk fat, 11 percent non-fat milk solids, 10 percent honey, 7 percent sucrose and 0.2 percent gelatin. Finally, fruit flavored frozen yogurt formulations with 7 percent honey solids were ranked highly by trained panelists. Another study reported in the newsletter revealed public attitudes about honey: 1. Honey is thought of as a natural product by over 90 percent of consumers. 2. 45.6 percent of consumers see honey as "very" nutritious as opposed to 10.6 percent who see corn syrup as nutritious. 3. "Nutritious," "tasty" and "an alternative to sugar," lead the list of consumer views on honey. 4. The National Honey Board's honey bear logo conveys important product attributes and strengths. 5. More than 49 percent of consumers indicated a preference for a honey added product. Less than two percent would select a product with artificial honey added. 6. Honey is seen as an extra value compared to corn syrup or sugar. 7. Consumers are willing to pay 13 percent more for a honey sweetened product compared to the same product sweetened with other sweeteners. 8. When a label says "honey added," nearly 50 percent of consumers expect at least 60 percent of the sweetener to be honey. These statistics show how important honey's reputation is to the consumer. The last four points above emphasize how potentially damaging adulterating and mislabeling are to honey industry marketing efforts. Although the National Honey Board's service mark is in use and becoming recognized, far too few products with the word "honey" on the label have the logo. This was brought to the attention of Florida beekeepers last month when several products (mustards and barbecue sauces) found in local stores were presented at a meeting of the Division of Plant Industry's Honey Bee Technical Council. They all had honey prominently on the label, but none sported the service mark. And none had appreciable amounts of the sweet in the product. On the ingredients list, almost invariably the first words listed were: corn syrup. Sincerely, Malcolm T. Sanford Bldg 970, Box 110620 University of Florida Gainesville, FL 32611-0620 Phone (904) 392-1801, Ext. 143 FAX: 904-392-0190 BITNET Address: MTS@IFASGNV INTERNET Address: MTS@GNV.IFAS.UFL.EDU ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 5 Sep 1994 14:46:47 PDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Adrian Wenner Subject: Re: Evolution of Honeybee Behavior Yale, RE: Evolution of recruitment behavior. I also suggest the following references for updates on this matter: 1991 Wenner, A.M., D. Meade, and L. J. Friesen. Recruitment, search behavior, and flight ranges of honey bees. AMERICAL ZOOLOGIST. 31(6):768-782. 1993 Wenner, A.M. [with K. von Frisch]. The language of bees. Bee World. 74:90-98. 1993 Wenner, A.M. Science as a process: The question of bee "language." Bios. 64:78-83. 1994. Vadas, R.L., Jr. The anatomy of an ecological controversy: honey-bee searching behavior. OIKOS. 69 (1):158-166. Adrian *************************************************************** * Adrian Wenner E-Mail wenner@lifesci.lscf.ucsb.edu * * Department of Biology Office Phone (805) 893-2838 * * University of California Lab Phone (805) 893-2838 * * Santa Barbara, CA 93106 FAX (805) 893-4724 * *************************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 5 Sep 1994 21:50:18 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Allen Dick 546-2588 Subject: Re: Removal of Honey Set in the Comb. We haven't had much trouble with granulated honey in combs in recent years. If one has a great number of frames relative to the number of hives operated, it might be a problem, however we simply uncap - or actually scratch - the offending combs and place several in the centre of each third box, separated by an empty comb and place them on hives at supering time. We use exclude excluders and super early for swarm control. We never notice any sign of granulation at extracting time. A neighbour of mine - a hobbyist with one hive ( a hive that gave 400 pounds every year - putting me to shame) - used to soak granulated combs in water and feed the water ba- lated combs in water and feed the resulting syrup to the bees. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 6 Sep 1994 06:48:00 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "WRRSCH::BELLR" Subject: Re: Removal of Honey Set in the Comb. Have you tried placing the affected supers above the inner cover. The bees will clean out the granulated honey, carrying it down to brood chamber for winter stores. This gets the "set" honey out of your supers, gives the bees winter stores, and eliminates all stickiness from those supers as the bees do such a good job of removing every last drop of honey. It only takes them a very short time - 2 or 3 days is sufficient with reasonably warm days. Good Luck! Ron Bell Thurmont, MD bellr@wrair-emh1.army.mil ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 6 Sep 1994 08:42:47 -0500 Reply-To: Marla Spivak Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Marla Spivak Subject: Re: looking for a beekeeper, John Kooiman. John Kooiman's address is 113 No. 16th Ave., St. Cloud, MN 56303. (612)251-6539. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 6 Sep 1994 13:44:36 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: PPM8@AOL.COM Subject: New Alternative Health Magazine The purpose of this message is: 1) To inform people of a new alternative health magazine 2) To request people to send articles or information relevant to the subjects listed below DO YOU HAVE AN INTEREST IN NATURAL HEALTH? If so Alternative Health International is the fully comprehensive, state of the art magazine for those interested or involved in the practice of natural health techniques. Originally a news letter circulated to health professionals worldwide, now, over 100 pages, and an international monthly magazine. The new format is published from October 1st 1994. Alternative Health International provides you with up-to-date information, areas covered include: ACUPUNCTURE BIOFEEDBACK THERAPY & TRAINING CHIROPRACTORS COMPLEMENTARY MEDICINE AND THERAPY CORPORATE HEALTH CARE HEALTH FITNESS & WEIGHT CONTROL HEALTH FOOD HERB & VITAMINS RESEARCH HOLISTIC PRACTICING HYPNOTHERAPY MASSAGE THERAPY MENTAL HEALTH & PSYCHIATRIC TREATMENT OCCUPATIONAL THERAPY ORAL HEALTH CARE OSTEOPATHY PSYCHIATRIC SOCIAL WORK PSYCHOLOGY REFLEXOLOGY HUMAN RIGHTS CHRONIC FATIGUE SYNDROME ALL AREAS OF ALTERNATIVE HEALTH Due to internet, Alternative Health International has attracted subscribers from all over the world. We invite our subscribers to contribute by way of supplying articles, technical information or facts of interests for the magazine for readers of the magazine. Subscribers are paid for their articles if published. If you want to know more about Alternative Health international and how to subscribe, please e-mail me with your name & address and I will have brochures etc. mailed to you. If you prefer E-Mail then a text file of the brochures will be returned to you. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 6 Sep 1994 13:30:28 PDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Adrian Wenner Subject: Re: Bee larvae as food Different versions about eating bee larvae are quite interesting, but here is another wrinkle that causes more than one eyebrow to raise. Whenever we came across one of our bee yards that had been struck by bears in the mountains of northern California, one feature soon became obvious. The bears did not focus on honey at all. The centers of the frames had been gouged out, with the brood missing. Poor Poo Bear! And how about all those honey dispensers shaped in the form of bears? Something to think about. Adrian *************************************************************** * Adrian Wenner E-Mail wenner@lifesci.lscf.ucsb.edu * * Department of Biology Office Phone (805) 893-2838 * * University of California Lab Phone (805) 893-2838 * * Santa Barbara, CA 93106 FAX (805) 893-4724 * *************************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 6 Sep 1994 20:16:16 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Mike Nesson Subject: Apistan dosage? In-Reply-To: <9405281816.AA25835@BCC.ORST.EDU> Hi all: It's getting to be the time around here for Apistan treatment. Is the proper dosage two strips per hive on the bottom board or two strips per hive box (and if so where should they be placed)? Thanks for any advice. Mike N. _______________________________________________________________________ Michael Nesson nessonm@bcc.orst.edu Dept. of Biochem/Biophys., Oregon State U., Corvallis,OR 97331-7305 (503)737-1866 FAX:(503)737-0481 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 7 Sep 1994 11:37:40 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Phil Veldhuis Subject: Re: Apistan dosage? In-Reply-To: <9409070318.AA09293@canopus.CC.UManitoba.CA> from "Mike Nesson" at Sep 6, 94 08:16:16 pm Mike Nesson insightfully writes: > > Hi all: > > It's getting to be the time around here for Apistan treatment. Is the > proper dosage two strips per hive on the bottom board or two strips per > hive box (and if so where should they be placed)? > Thanks for any advice. > Mike N. There seems to be alot of confusion about apistan dosage. The company has changed it's recomendations from a per hive treatment to a per box treatment. You'd better consult with your local state/provincial apiarist since recomendations may also vary with local conditions. The old way was two strips in the top box containing brood. The sticky board used to detect mites is placed on the bottom board. Apparently (this is 2nd hand) they now recomend two strips per box with brood. Can anyone confirm? Phil -- ------------oooooooooooooooOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOooooooooooooo------------- Phil Veldhuis | "if something is not worth doing, Winnipeg. MB, Canada | it is not worth doing right" veldhui@cc.umanitoba.ca | Dave Barry (1985) ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 7 Sep 1994 11:34:00 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Paul van Westendorp 576-5600 Fax: 576-5652" Subject: Re: Apistan dosage? To add a bit to the confusion, the Apistan rate has ben recommended at one strip for every five frames of brood. This means that the application rate varies according to season. One may have as many as four strips in a colony according to those recommendations. Our field trials have shown that comparable levels of mite control are obtained when two strips are applied to these colonies instead of four. It is also important for the producer to properly place the strips between the frames to ensure maximum contact exposure to the bees. Regards Paul van Westendorp PVANWESTEN@galaxy.gov.bc.ca Provincial Apiculturist BC Ministry of Agriculture, Fisheries & Food ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 7 Sep 1994 19:48:02 PDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Walt Dennig Subject: pollen Thanks Robbee for your response to Mr. Rodgers attack on pollen. Even if he were 100 percent correct, I find the general tenor of his message repugnant. I have wondered for some time about the potential of bee pollen to contain pesticides and other contaminants. My assumption is that the pollen is collected prior to the bees' entry into the hive (isn't there some device that knocks it out of thos eat little sacks?). If the bees processed the pollen prior to it's collection, then they would probably succomb to the contaminants. Do you have information re this or perhaps a pointer? Thanks again. Walt -- Walt Dennig (wrdennig@cruzio.com) P.O.Box 578, Santa Cruz CA 95061-0578 USA 408-426-6141 FAX 408-457-2104 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 8 Sep 1994 11:29:38 +0100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jean-Marie Van Dyck Subject: Re: Use of Apistan strips Hi bee lovers ! On Wed, 7 Sep 1994 11:34:00 -0700 Paul van Westendorp wrote ... > To add a bit to the confusion, the Apistan rate has ben recommended at > one strip for every five frames of brood. This means that the > application rate varies according to season. One may have as many as > four strips in a colony according to those recommendations. -- cut -- Seems we don't forget there is frame and frame : you may not compare a Dadant, a Langstroth and a British Standard (about 21x36 cm) frame. In my opinion, and it is the Zoecon-Sandoz recommendation, the correct dosage is ... 1/ Two strips close the brood (one on each side of the hive) in the established colonies, as soon as possible after the last removing of the supers. The best is making the treatment at the same time in all the apiaries of the country to avoid re-infection by looting or drifting. 2/ In the other small colonies (nucs, swarms, emergency queens), only one strip close to the brood. For 1985 it's the treatment mode we use here in Belgium and the mite (varroa m.) level seems generally low. Jean-Marie ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 8 Sep 1994 13:11:49 -0400 Reply-To: moore901@crow.csrv.uidaho.edu Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Adam Finkelstein Subject: Need Historical Information (fwd) Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Need historical information Date: 7 Sep 1994 16:43:12 GMT Organization: University of Idaho, Moscow, Idaho My name is Chad Moore, and I am a beekeeper in the state of Idaho. I am a college student, and am writing my senior thesis on the history of beekeeping both in the Northwest, and the rest of the United States, and would even touch on other countries if I could get information. I am asking anyone who has any type of old beekeeping records to let my know, I need a lot more facts. Also if I could get some information on some good books in which I could research that would also be a big help. If anyone can help I would really appreciate it. College Beekeeper Address: Chad Moore 420 NE Campus Pullman, Washington ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 8 Sep 1994 12:13:00 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Kerry Clark 784-2225 fax (604) 784 2299" Subject: Re: Need Historical Information (fwd) If you're interested in this far away, Turnbull, W.H. 1959 (?). One Hundred Years of Beekeeping in British Columbia, 1858 - 1958. 135 p. Published by B.C. Honey Producers' Association. has reports of bees shipped to B.C. from California in 1858 and Oregon in 1860., and a lot of stories of the first settlers who kept bees. Kerry Clark, Apiculture Specialist B.C. Ministry of Agriculture 1201 103 Ave Dawson Creek B.C. V1G 4J2 CANADA Tel (604) 784-2225 fax (604) 784-2299 INTERNET KCLARK@GALAXY.GOV.BC.CA ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 8 Sep 1994 16:53:24 GMT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: ANDY NACHBAUR Organization: Wild Bee's BBS 209-826-8107 Subject: FAQ Help Wanted! Subject: FAQ Help Wanted! ___ ___ ___ ___ ___ ___ ___ ___ ___/ \___/ \___/ \___/ \___/ \___/ \___/ \___/ \___ / \___/ \___/ \___/ \___/XXX\___/ \___/ \___/ \___/XXX \___/ \___/ \___/ \___/ \XXX/:::\___/:::\___/:::\___/:::\XXX /XXX\ For INDEX of Beekeeping FAQs`::::::::::::::::::::::::::::/ \XXX/ e-mail to: hint.ind@beenet.com `:::::::::::::::::::::::\___ / \ __ __ `:::::::::::::::/ \___/ / \ \^+^/ / \ Andy Nachbaur `::::::\___ / \ \ \(O O)/ / Wild Bee's BBS `:::/ \___/ \ \\_// //-->> BEENET.COM `:\___ / \ ------oOO--Y--OOo---------------------------- :/ \___/ ___ ___ ___ ___ ___ ___ ___ \___ / \___/ \___/ \___/ \___/ \___/ \___/XXX\___/ \___/ \___/ \___/XXX\___/ \___/ \___/ \___/ \XXX/ \___/ \___ \___/ \XXX/ \___/ \___/ \___/ \___/ \___/ \___/ hI All! The Beekeeping FAQ requests have attracted much more interest then I ever thought it would. There must be thousands of people who are interested in BeeKeeping and beekeepers then ever post to this or any other group. The FAQ's are in much need of upgrading and expanding to meet the more general needs of the keeper of bees, both novice and professional. If any of you are in a position to help, I can not pay you, but will be happy to identify your efforts with your name and organization. Please request the index: hint.ind@beenet.com When you get the index, request the papers that you have expertise in and feel free to do one of your own, or upgrade the original. I will take care of notification of the originals author if needed. Please keep it short and simple if possible. I can not give any a 100% guarantee your work will be used, but if I can't use it in the FAQ system, I will for sure make it available for d/l with the 5 megs of beekeeping files I have on line at Wild Bee's BBS, and it will in time make it to other bbs's here and in Europe. ttul Andy- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 8 Sep 1994 16:21:27 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Adam Finkelstein Subject: Re: FAQ Help Wanted! In-Reply-To: <199409082013.QAA46256@vtaix.cc.vt.edu> from "ANDY NACHBAUR" at Sep 8, 94 04:53:24 pm Andy, simply forward me the FAQ's each time you update them, and I can archive them at FTP sites, as can others. Would this work? Adam -- =========================================================================== Adam Finkelstein adamf@hopper.itc.virginia.edu adamf@vtaix.cc.vt.edu =============================================== |Bees To Please| ======= ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 8 Sep 1994 20:22:52 +0000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Rick Hough Subject: Re: FAQ Help Wanted! Adam Finkelstein recently wrote: > Andy, >simply forward me the FAQ's each time you update them, and I can archive >them at FTP sites, as can others. >Would this work? Adam, I think you missed the main point of Andy's plea - If I read his original post correctly, he is looking for assistance _authoring_ the FAQs that he can then distribute via his automatic e-mail response system. This is very similar to our own problems maintaining the BEE-L and sci.agriculture.beekeeping FAQs - we just don't have enough time to do all the FAQ authoring ourselves! So, Andy would like it if assorted "experts" would fetch FAQ documents related to their area of expertise, and review/revise/improve them and send the improved document back to Andy so that we can all benefit from an improved FAQ collection [did I get that right, Andy??] Actually, the same plea applies to all who read the BEE-L and s.a.beekeeping FAQs - please send in your suggestions so we can improve that document as well! With that said, you (Adam) have still brought up a good point - improving access & distribution of Andy's collection. It would be cool make the collection "ftp-able". That way folks with good network access don't have to wait for Andy's "mail runs at 6AM and 6PM", and the resulting turn-around delay. But, it's not up to me to tell Andy how to run his BBS or how to distribute his material! I'll let you guys work that one out. BTW - Thanks, Andy, for making all this material available, and for maintaining, updating it, etc. I know it can consume a surprising amount of time!! Time to go home - been a long day at work! G'night Rick rshough@tasc.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 9 Sep 1994 14:53:25 +0100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Malcolm Roe Subject: Re: Crystalized Honey in extracted frames In-Reply-To: <9409061227.AA04887@crosfield.co.uk> from "Aaron Morris" at Sep 6, 94 08:06:48 am Thanks to everone for the suggestions about crystallised honey. However I haven't done anything! That's not because I don't value the ideas but I need to get the winter feed on first. In the UK it's usual to take off all the honey rather than leave some on for the winter. Also, I prefer to work with a single brood chamber. (There is still just enough room for all the winter stores required.) What this means is that feeding is essential more or less as soon as the last of the supers are removed. The justification is purely economic. I can buy sugar at about 30p per pound but sell honey at between 1.50 and 1.80. Putting the supers under the brood chamber sounds like a good idea. I must try that sometime. The ideas for creating a clustering space also make sense but isn't there a risk of wild comb being built? I've had problems when I've put cappings back to be cleaned in a feeder with similar volume to a super. I suppose it depends on how long you leave them. That brings me to my final point. At one time, after extraction I used to put my supers back onto the hive over the crown board to be cleaned up. It only took a day or two to get all the wet stuff off although I often left them for a week. (I stopped doing this for a number of reasons, none of which are particularly important for this discussion.) What I did notice was that it took much longer for any crystallised honey to be removed. Indeed, even if left on for a week, the bees usually made very little impression on it. I always assumed this was because extra water was required and, since the bees didn't bring it up, it had to be absorbed from the air thus setting a limit on the rate that the crystallised honey could be removed. That was one of the reasons why I asked for suggestions. I didn't expect to be able to get away just with putting the supers back on top of the hive. Any comments? -- Malcolm Roe Phone : +44 442 230000 ext 5104 Crosfield Electronics Ltd Fax : +44 442 232301 Hemel Hempstead, Herts. HP2 7RH, UK E-mail : roe@crosfield.co.uk ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 9 Sep 1994 19:42:43 CST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Vladimir Ptacek Subject: Re: Crystalyzed honey In spite of the fact that I am only a "hobbeekeeper" (round 30 colonies) I have some experience with crystalyzed honey. I would see following possibilities how to cope with the problem: 1. To use it as winterstores. This is possible in case of flower honey. Crystalyzed honeydew with lots of trisacharide melecitose is not allowed for this purposs. The chamber with capped granulated honey should be put on the brood chamber(s) as soon as the latest honey flow was extracted. (Overwintering in more chambers in well ventilated hives supplied with plenty stores brings strong colonies and more honey next season.) 2. In spring, after having checked the colony and removed uncovered space, super with crystalyzed honey can be put bellow the brood chamber from where bees start to transport honey to the upper parts of the hive especially if cappings were partially destroied. The higher air humidity bellow brood nest helps the bees with convering honey into the liquid state. For this purposs a dark honey is sutable, too.(The bee population should be numerous enough to manage the given space.) Colonies develop rapidly and later on first supers can be added to accumulate incomming nectar mixed with converted honey. 3. The combs with honey can be melted and "honey" used for production of honey-vine or sold for sweetening. 4. Have red somewhere that it would be possible to warm combs with honey in a special chamber to 45 - 48 deg. C. till honey solves and then, after the temperature would fall a little again, honey should be extracted. Earlier I also changed honey for sugar because of the difference in prices but now I know that bees bring more than stores left for them and the time costs something, too. If the colony is not forced to convert large amounts of sugar in late summer it remains unussually strong. Best regards, Vladimir Ptacek (ptacek@sci.muni.cz) Czech Republic ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 10 Sep 1994 01:19:48 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jim Osborn Subject: Re: Platforms... I'm a 3-colony hobbiest, and newsletter editor/secretary of our local bee club, the Stanwood-Camano Beekeeper's Association. I use a high-end 486 PC running Linux. I avoid DOS and Windows if at all possible. jimo@eskimo.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 12 Sep 1994 13:47:40 +0000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Rick Hough Subject: BEE-L FAQ [long] * * * * * * BEE-L FAQ * * * * * * updated September 9, 1994 What is BEE-L? Charter: BEE-L is for the discussion of research and information concerning the biology of bees. This includes honey bees and other bees (and maybe even wasps). We communicate about sociobiology, behavior, ecology, adaptation/evolution, genetics, taxonomy, physiology, pollination, and flower nectar and pollen production of bees. On the technical side: BEE-L is a computerized e-mail list. All e-mail sent to the BEE-L address is duplicated and mailed to all the current subscribers on the list. The listserver (the computer that runs the list) maintains a log (archive) of all messages, and list members may request a copy of the log. The archive has a separate file for each month, and these files are currently saved for about a year. To access the listserve computer itself (i.e. to subscribe to or unsubscribe from BEE-L, to request a log file, etc.), send e-mail to the listserver address. Don't send control messages to the BEE-L address, because the message will just be sent to everyone on the list, and the computer will not do what you wanted it to do. Note that most control messages contain the list name (BEE-L) somewhere in the command, as the listserve computer generally runs many lists at any given time. How do I post a message to BEE-L? If you are on the Internet, send an e-mail message to bee-l@uacsc2.albany.edu If you are on BitNet, address your e-mail to bee-l@ALBNYVM1.BITNET Any message received at these addresses will be duplicated and mailed to everyone currently subscribed to the BEE-L list. How do I subscribe to, or unsubscribe from BEE-L? Send mail to the listserve computer (from the Internet the address is listserv@uacsc2.albany.edu from BitNet, the address is listserv@ALBNYVM1.BITNET To SUBSCRIBE, the body of your message must contain the line: SUBSCRIBE BEE-L You may abbreviate SUBSCRIBE with SUB. Be sure to substitute your real name for the placeholder. You do not need quotes or any other delimiters surrounding your name. The listserve computer will determine your address from the "From:" header in your message. To UNSUBSCRIBE, the body of your message must contain the line: SIGNOFF BEE-L You may substitute either UNSUBSCRIBE or UNSUB for the SIGNOFF in this command to remove your subscription to the list If your address has changed since you subscribed, this command will fail - write to YOUR local POSTMAST/POSTMASTER/POSTMSTR id for assistance. If that fails, then write to OWNER-BEE-L @ for assistance. If that fails, then write one of the following (these are typical addresses that should be forwarded to a person who can answer your question): POSTMASTER@ POSTMAST@ POSTMSTR@ Note: = ALBNYVM1.BITNET if you are on BitNet. = uacsc2.albany.edu if you are on Internet). To avoid this problem, UNSUBSCRIBE from BEE-L before you move to a new e-mail address, and then resubscribe from your new address. How do I get help using the listserver? Send a message to the listserver, with the one word HELP in the body of the message. Address the message to listserv@albnyvm1.bitnet if you are on BitNet, or address it to listserv@uacsc2.albany.edu if you are on the Internet. The listserver will mail a help document back to you. Sending the message INFO ? will cause the listserver to mail you a list of additional help documents that are available. These additional documents are requested by sending the message INFO (be sure to substitute the desired document name for ) ****************************** sci.agriculture.beekeeping FAQ 9/10/94 This is FAQ #4 for sci.agriculture.beekeeping. To have this FAQ archived in news.answers, it needs to be submitted following a rigorous template. It is about halfway done. Later this month I'll submit this FAQ. (Adam) (Later...) **Note** Excellent information may be obtained on grease patty use and manufacture in the latest _Apis_ magazine, available on sci.agriculture.beekeeping, bee-l, and all the FTP sites. ****** POINTERS TO APICULTURAL INFORMATION ON THE INTERNET ****** USENET news * sci.agriculture.beekeeping Beekeeping, bee-culture and hive products. Listserv: * BEE-L BEE-L is for the discussion of research and information concerning the biology of bees. This includes honey bees and other bees (and maybe even wasps). We communicate about sociobiology, behavior, ecology, adaptation/evolution, genetics, taxonomy, physiology, pollination, and flower nectar and pollen production of bees. To subscribe to BEE-L, send e-mail to listserv@uacsc2.albany.edu with one line in the body of your message: SUBSCRIBE BEE-L To get help on how to run the listserver, send e-mail to listserv@uacsc2.albany.edu with one line in the body of your message: HELP To send a message to all current BEE-L subscribers, mail it to BEE-L@uacsc2.albany.edu. * Beekeeping Home Page (WWW) http://alfred1.u.washington.edu:8080/~jlks/bee.html * Entomology World Wide-Web Server at Colorado State University http:// www.colostate.edu/Depts/Entomology/ent.html * Entomology World Wide-Web Server at Iowa State University http:// www.public.iastate.edu/~entomology/ * sun1.oardc.ohio-state.edu Anonymous ftp * sun1.oardc.ohio-state.edu Gopher (comments on the above to postmaster@sun1.oardc.ohio-state.edu) * crl.com Anonymous ftp password /users/ro/robbee/BEE> * sunsite.unc.edu Anonymous ftp, gopher, telnet /pub/academic/agriculture/sustainable_agriculture/beekeeping /pub/academic/agriculture/sustainable_agriculture/beekeeping/newsletters/apis * ftp.ucdavis.edu Anonymous ftp /pub/extension/4h-youth/bee-keeping Questions about accessing these sources may be answered locally or by reading news.answers, news.announce.newusers or by writing me, and I'll try to point you in the best direction.(adamf@vtaix.cc.vt.edu) Please don't be afraid to ask! * Beekeeping FAQ's (frequently asked questions) How to USE: Internet E-Mail a message addressed to: HINT.103@beenet.com on subject line put the name of FAQ : HONEY ADULTERATION thats all, you are welcome to add a message. Mail runs are 6am & 6pm. FAQ Last update 8-22-94 name * NEW or UPDATED _________ HINT.IND THIS INDEX * yellow.jacket How to get rid of them! Adrian Wenner 8/94 * argentin.ant Argentine Ant Control Adrian Wenner 8/94 * ambee.fed Info-Joining American Beekeeping Federation apimon95.txt Info- APIMONDIA 1995 Meeting mead.lst How to join the Mead list mail bee-l.faq How to Join the Bee-L list mail & find FAQ's import.relief Letter to Congress, William J. Clinton (1994) usda-bee.lab Address & Info on Sending Dead bee samples (1992) formic.txt Warning on use of Formic Acid by beekeepers (1992) propolis Jerry Bronenshenk on PROPOLIS (1993) 4-H.txt 4-H joins the Internet (1993) FSHEET11 INFORMATION US BEEKEEPING HINT.101 SOURCES OF BEEKEEPING INFORMATION HINT.102 HONEY AND ITS USES HINT.103 HONEY ADULTERATION HINT.104 FLORIDA BEE INSPECTION HINT.105 FLORIDA BEARS AND BEEKEEPING HINT.106 HONEY HOUSE SANITATION HINT.107 FLORIDA HONEY LABELING REGULATIONS HINT.108 PRODUCING SECTION (COMB) HONEY HINT.109 EXHIBITING HONEY HINT.110 SAMPLE POLLINATION AGREEMENT HINT.111 SOLAR BEESWAX RENDERING AND HINTS FOR EXHIBITING WAX BLOCKS HINT.112 EXTENSION APICULTURAL VISUAL AIDS HINT.113 USING HONEY IN LARGE-QUANTITY RECIPES HINT.115 GOOD NEIGHBOR GUIDELINES AND ORDINANCES HINT.116 CHALKBROOD RECOMMENDATIONS HINT.117 HONEY MARKETING SURVEY HINT.118 PRODUCING POLLEN HINT.119 FINANCIAL MANGEMENT FOR BEEKEEPERS HINT.120 UPWARD VENTILATION HINT.121 WAX MOTH CONTROL HINT.122 BEE STINGS AND REACTIONS HINT.123 EXTENSION APICULTURE IN FLORIDA HINT.124 FINANCIAL STATEMENTS AND RATIOS FOR BEEKEEPING OPERATIONS HINT.125 PRESERVING WOODENWARE IN BEEKEEPING OPERATIONS HINT.126 THE VALUE OF POLLINATION BY HONEY BEES HINT.127 THE VARROA BEE MITE HINT.128 INFANT BOTULISM AND HONEY HINT.129 HONEY JUDGING AND STANDARDS HINT.130 USING THE HONEY REFRACTOMETER HINT.131 OBSERVATION BEE HIVES All HINT's courtesy of Malcolm T. Sanford, Cooperative Extension Service University of Florida, Gainesville, Fl e:mail mts@gnv.ifas.ufl.edu *beenet.com is a Information Service for Beekeepers & Friends, operated by Andy Nachbaur from the Wild Bee's BBS, 209-826-8107, Los Banos, CA ****Thanks to Andy Nachbaur for putting this together.**** Andy would like your talents in expanding this service. Interested? Write him. E:mail Andy.Nachbaur@beeneet.com * Honey Hotline NHB Food Technology Program 1 -800-356-5941 P.O. Box 281525 415-340-3568 (FAX) San Franscisco, CA 94128-1525 USA * National Honey Board 421 21 st, suite 203, Longmont, CO 80501 USA 303-776-2337 * The American Apitherapy Society, Inc. P.O. Box 124, Woodsville, NH 03785 603-747-2507 (V,F) *International Bee Research Association 18 North Rd Cardiff CF1 3DY, UK F: (+44)222 665522 V: (+44)222 372409 (24 hrs) * Mead lovers list: mead-lovers-request@eklektix.com mead mailing list (subscribe, unsubscribe, etc) mead-lovers@eklektix.com (to send message to all current mead-lover subscribers) * The Mead Association P.O. Box 4666 Grand Junction, CO 81502 1-800-693-MEAD outside US 303-442-9111 * Mead book list: for a good list of books on mead mail: jkl2@Ra.MsState.edu ask for book list. ***** Printed Beekeeping Reference Sources ****** * For an extensive list of Australian beekeeping references e:mail adent@deakin.edu.au * For British beekeeping references and general British bee information, e: mail roe@crosfield.co.uk * Sheila A. Lafferty, librarian/archivist at uconn. handles the _ Hewitt Apicultural Collection_ containing both books and periodicals. Write her for a bibliography, e:mail: wbladmo3@uconnvm.uconn.edu Or obtain the bibliography via gopher: uconn.edu /libraries/waterbury (although this wasn't working when I tried it--adamf) ***** Specialists ***** * John Mcghee, VA Dept of Agriculture Apiary Inspector wishes questions from, and has a list of resources for *beginning beekeepers*. He will focus on practical management and the first years for beekeepers. e:mail mcghee@hopper.itc.virginia.edu * Dr. Rick Fell, Apiculture/Entomology professor and researcher at VA Tech is available for questions, comments and queries. e:mail rfell@vt.edu * Dr. Adrian Wenner, Biology professor and researcher at UCAL SB has available information on Yellow Jacket Control. e:mail wenner@lifesci.lscf.ucsb.edu * For historical bee lore questions (bees knees), and bee lore info write Warner Granade, Librarian at UVa. e:mail jwg2y@poe.acc.virginia.edu * Pollen Information, including pollen production and pollen usage is available from Rob Bidleman. e:mail robbee@crl.com or Anonymous FTP crl.com (see previous section on FTP sites) If anyone would like to "keep" a list of beekeeping references, making it available to other beekeepers on the internet, send us your e:mail address and ideas. This will save space on the FAQ. We need experts to answer questions and curate specialized apicultural information sites on the internet. * BOMBUS A mailing list dedicated to Bumblebees!! To subscribe, send a message to bombus-request@csi.uottawa.ca. To send a message to everyone on the list, mail it to bombus@csi.uottawa.ca. The Bombus list is maintained by Chris Plowright (plowright@csi.uottawa.ca) FAQ List The following list of frequently asked questions was compiled by Rick Hough (rshough@tasc.com) Thank you Rick for a fine job. Folks? Please answer some of these questions if you can find time. (you'll get your name in the FAQ!) Why did my beehive die? What is the difference between Honey Bees and other stinging insects? How do I recognize a honey bee? Why do Bees Sting? What Should I do if there are bees flying all around me? What is the best treatment for a bee sting? What about allergic reactions? Is it true that all bees/honeybees will more likely attack things that are tall/dark/furry-hairy/smelly (what kind of smells?) ? What is an African Bee, and how do I recognize it? Why are African Bees called "Killer Bees?" Are African Bees really dangerous? Do I have to worry about African Bees? (will African Bees be moving into my neighborhood?) How far north will the "killer Bees" get, and when? Bibliography of children's books on bees. Bibliography of beekeeping texts. Bibliography of biology (habitat, parasites, etc.) Protective gear. Finding Queens. Regulatory and research people and their addresses. AHB Progress and news. What is the National Honey Board? How do I find a local beekeeper? What is a swarm -are they dangerous Are their different races of honeybees? What are they and how do they differ? Supering. Honey Production. Queen Rearing. Social Order. Lore. Bee Deterrent? Swarm removal. Thanks, Rick rshough@tasc.com Adam adamf@vtaix.cc.vt.edu -- =========================================================================== Adam Finkelstein adamf@hopper.itc.virginia.edu adamf@vtaix.cc.vt.edu =============================================== |Bees To Please| ======= ====================================================================== ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 12 Sep 1994 11:48:07 PDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Sharon Collman Organization: WSU CAHE USER Subject: Re: BEE-L FAQ [long] In-Reply-To: Message of Mon, 12 Sep 1994 13:47:40 +0000 from What a great compilation of info on the resources available. Thanks. SHARON J. COLLMAN W.S.U. COOPERATIVE EXTENSION URBAN IPM RESOURCE CENTER @ CENTER FOR URBAN HORTICULTURE UNIVERSITY OF WASHINGTON GF-15 SEATTLE, WA 98195 PHONE: 206-543-8616 E-MAIL COLLMANS@WSUVM1.CSC.WSU.EDU ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 12 Sep 1994 16:06:42 BSC Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: DEJAIR MESSAGE Subject: Re: New catalog In-Reply-To: Message of Thu, 1 Sep 1994 12:44:38 -0700 from I would like to receive a new catalog. thank you Dejair message bitnet: dmessage@brufv.bitnet ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 12 Sep 1994 22:00:56 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: JYoung142@AOL.COM Subject: bee questions Hi all: I have a question about end of season honey harvesting. I have been left with a few frames that are still uncapped and it is time to start wrapping the hive up for winter. My question is, since I really can't extract the honey that is left uncapped, what is the best way to handle this uncapped honey? I am using a temp login, please send any reply to my Lotus address below. Thanks, Jeff Young Jeffrey_Young.lotus@crd.lotus.com Bee Keeper from Central Mass. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 13 Sep 1994 07:20:03 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ron Rynders Subject: Re: bee questions In-Reply-To: <9409122156.aa12349@cc.dordt.edu> from "JYoung142@aol.com" at Sep 12, 94 10:00:56 pm Yes, I am also curious about the answers to this question. If you send a reply only to Jeff, please fire me a response as well. Otherwise, please answer on the network as well. Thanks > > Hi all: > I have a question about end of season honey harvesting. I have been left > with a few frames that are still uncapped and it is time to start wrapping > the hive up for winter. My question is, since I really can't extract the > honey that is left uncapped, what is the best way to handle this uncapped > honey? > > I am using a temp login, please send any reply to my Lotus address below. > > Thanks, > Jeff Young Jeffrey_Young.lotus@crd.lotus.com > Bee Keeper from Central Mass. ******************************************************************************* Ron Rynders phone 1-712-722-6078 Dordt College fax 1-712-722-6416 498 4th Ave NE e-mail ron@dordt.edu Sioux Center, IA 51250 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 13 Sep 1994 09:45:00 CST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Matt Ter Molen Subject: Re: bee questions There are a number of things that you can do with a couple of uncapped frames that you don't want to extract. One option would be to place an empty super over the inner cover of a hive that needs feeding and place the frame/s in that super. The bees will take the honey down and use it for winter stores. Another option would be to extract the honey and then feed it to colonies that needed winter stores by placing the honey in a feeder frame or inverted jar feeder. A final option would be to just set out the frames by your apiary and let the bees take it when they clean up your supers. I wouldn't really recommend this option because it can promote robbing in your bee yard and pass disease on to other colonies. I would (and do) use option one of putting the frames in a super over the inner cover of a hive that needs more feed. I hope this helps. Matt Ter Molen. University of Chicago. dwbmjtm@uchimvs1. uchicago.edu. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 13 Sep 1994 17:49:15 +0100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Malcolm Roe Subject: Re: bee questions In-Reply-To: <9409122200.tn833259@aol.com> from "JYoung142@AOL.COM" at Sep 12, 94 10:00:56 pm > I have been left > with a few frames that are still uncapped and it is time to start wrapping > the hive up for winter. My question is, since I really can't extract the > honey that is left uncapped, what is the best way to handle this uncapped > honey? Why do you say you "really can't extract the honey"? If you mean that you don't have the time or equipment then the advice you've already received is fine. However, I think you're implying that because the honey is uncapped then it won't keep. (It's unripe.) This would be true earlier in the season but assuming the honey flow is over for the year I doubt that it's true now. It only takes a few days for honey in the hive to be ripened. It just involves evaporating off some of the water. The bees are eternal optimists. If the cells aren't full they leave them uncapped in the hope of more nectar becoming available. What you need to do is to test the honey. The easiest way is to remove a frame, hold it horizontally over the super and give it a good shake. If drips of honey come flying out then it's unripe. If none (or virtually none) comes out then it's ready for extraction. Even if it's still unripe, once the flow is over all you need do is leave it a few days more and try again. -- Malcolm Roe Phone : +44 442 230000 ext 5104 Crosfield Electronics Ltd Fax : +44 442 232301 Hemel Hempstead, Herts. HP2 7RH, UK E-mail : roe@crosfield.co.uk ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 13 Sep 1994 08:33:00 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Daniel Toshach Subject: Re: bee questions I am also interested in the answer to this question. If you reply to Jeff please also post your reply to the BEE-L. Thanks, Dan Daniel.Toshach@nt.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 13 Sep 1994 20:23:26 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Robert T. Reed" <73624.2723@COMPUSERVE.COM> Subject: Subscribe to BEE-L I would like to SUBSCRIBE BEE-L Robert T. Reed ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 14 Sep 1994 11:17:45 AEST+1000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Adrian Graham DENT (Rodent)" Organization: Monash University, Clayton Subject: Re: bee questions > received is fine. However, I think you're implying that because the > honey is uncapped then it won't keep. (It's unripe.) This would be Also, for people who have mild allergy to honey, uncapped honey is generaly a lot more irritating then the capped stuff. > the water. The bees are eternal optimists. If the cells aren't full > they leave them uncapped in the hope of more nectar becoming available. Um...I don't know about this...do you have any evidence to support this?? I have seen bees cap a frame of cells less than half full, just as I have seen them having not yet capped great big bulging three-times-their-normal-thickness frames (I love it when they do that) I could still be wrong. If you have evidence that ripened honey remains uncapped, please tell me. I would asume that because of the hygroscopic nature of honey, if it is left uncapped to long, it will start taking up water again. Adrian. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 14 Sep 1994 15:06:04 +1000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: ADC Administor Subject: Subject: Re: bee questions To: BEE-L%ALBNYVM1.BITNET@UBVM.cc.buffalo.edu Date: Wed, 14 Sep 1994 15:06:04 +1000 (EST) From: "ADC Administor" In-Reply-To: from "Adrian Graham DENT" at Sep 14, 94 11:17:45 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 689 Adrian writes: ... > remains uncapped, please tell me. I would asume that because of the > hygroscopic nature of honey, if it is left uncapped to long, it will > start taking up water again. > Adrian. > I have heard people say that excess capped honey should not be left in the hive because it temps the bees not to go foraging. Is this true? Also, because of the hygroscopic nature of honey, how are you supposed to store it? (to supplement the bees during winter). In an air type room? I once accidently left a full comb of capped honey in the shed, and by morning the honey was oozing out of its cells. I thought the cells were air-tight. Any comments are welcomed. Stelios. -- Steven Andrews Configuration Manager / Software Engineer Research & Development (Omega System) Terminals & Systems Operation Email Electronics 88-94 Cantebury Rd, Kilsyth, Victoria, 3137, AUSTRALIA. Tel : +61 3 728-7416 (Office) +61 3 728-1888 (Reception) E-mail : gemini@dev.ecs.oz.au or jules@dev.ecs.oz.au ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 14 Sep 1994 14:45:58 +0200 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: ilja@NKI.NL Subject: AFB and bumble bees Last night I attended a meeting of beekeepers about AFB to discuss which steps to take to suppress this illness. In The Netherlands bees, beehives and equipment are burnt and travelling with bee is not longer allowed in the region where the illness was found for a certain time. Because bumble bees are frequently used in glass houses for pollination, the question arised weather bumble bees can carry AFB and in this way can maybe transfer AFB. Is there anything known about this subject? Ilja. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ilja van de pavert the netherlands cancer institute/antoni van leeuwenhoekhuis dept. of biophysics plesmanlaan 121 phone: +31 20 5121894 1066 cx amsterdam fax: +31 20 5121944 the netherlands email: ilja@nki.nl --------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 14 Sep 1994 23:11:19 AEST+1000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Adrian Graham DENT (Rodent)" Organization: Monash University, Clayton Subject: Re: Subject: Re: bee questions > I have heard people say that excess capped honey should not be left in > the hive because it temps the bees not to go foraging. Is this true? Usualy, if there are still empty frames (regardless of how many full frames there are) bess will continue to forage as long as there is nectar available. > I once accidently left a full comb of capped honey in the shed, and by > morning the honey was oozing out of its cells. I thought the cells were > air-tight. I take it the shed was cool??? Funny thing about wax, it melts when it gets warm, and I would assume that if you have taken the frame out of a hive, it would have been during summer, and I would suspect that a shed isn't the coolest place available. :-> Hope this is helpful to someone. Adrian. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 14 Sep 1994 10:04:13 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jane Power Subject: Re: Subject: Re: bee questions Hi there. I thougth I would throw my two bits in. Frames can be frozen I believe, and then thawed when needed. Hope I'm not wrong; however, it's happened before. JaneP. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 14 Sep 1994 17:49:13 +0100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jean-Marie Van Dyck Subject: drying honey technology - small review Hi honey lovers ! Drying honey technology ... On Mon, 12 Sep 1994 Jeff Young asked: > I have a question about end of season honey harvesting. I have been left > with a few frames that are still uncapped and it is time to start wrapping > the hive up for winter. My question is, since I really can't extract the > honey that is left uncapped, what is the best way to handle this uncapped > honey? Good question because question encountered by all beekeepers (other queries), but ambiguous question as remarked by Malcolm Roe > Why do you say you "really can't extract the honey"? If you mean > that you don't have the time or equipment then the advice you've > already received is fine (ROBBING, see below). However, I think > you're implying that because the honey is uncapped then it won't keep. > (It's unripe.) I think it also and the different answers coming on the Net don't satisfied me ... Matt Ter Molen proposed to get robbing this honey by the bees and gave different robbing methods when you don't extract it. Pay attention : robbing is very dangerous this time: put the frames to be robbed at more than 80-100 m from your hives to avoid the robbing of your own colonies (reduce the hive entrances, put the frames after 5:00pm and remove at the night are good ideas) ... > One option would be to place an empty super over the inner cover of a > hive that needs feeding and place the frame/s in that super. The bees > will take the honey down and use it for winter stores. Another option > would be to extract the honey and then feed it to colonies that needed > winter stores by placing the honey in a feeder frame or inverted jar > feeder. A final option would be to just set out the frames by your > apiary and let the bees take it when they clean up your supers. I > wouldn't really recommend this option because it can promote robbing > in your bee yard and pass disease on to other colonies. I would (and > do) use option one of putting the frames in a super over the inner > cover of a hive that needs more feed. Malcolm sayed ... > This would be true earlier in the season but assuming the honey flow > is over for the year I doubt that it's true now. It only takes a few > days for honey in the hive to be ripened. It just involves > evaporating off some of the water. ... > What you need to do is to test the honey. The easiest way is to remove > a frame, hold it horizontally over the super and give it a good shake. > If drips of honey come flying out then it's unripe. If none (or > virtually none) comes out then it's ready for extraction. Even if it's > still unripe, once the flow is over all you need do is leave it a few > days more and try again. Ok Malcolm, you are right, this is not honey, it is drying nectar, but even when it don't fly out, you aren't certain of the water amount in your honey and if it rained and rains yet (as here in Belgium), this could increase by catching water as sayed below by Adrian G. Dent Malcolm sayed more ... > The bees are eternal optimists. If the cells aren't full they > leave them uncapped in the hope of more nectar becoming available. but this seems a bit anthropomorphic and Adrian reacted as a good cartesian researcher ... > Um...I don't know about this...do you have any evidence to support > this?? I have seen bees cap a frame of cells less than half full, > just as I have seen them having not yet capped great big bulging > three-times-their-normal-thickness frames (I love it when they do > that) > I could still be wrong. If you have evidence that ripened honey > remains uncapped, please tell me. I would asume that because of the > hygroscopic nature of honey, if it is left uncapped to long, it will > start taking up water again. Really, at this time of the year (the length of the days decreases sharply), you can see 1/ the capped honey is never eated or even uncapped (but robbing) 2/ some ripened honey remains uncapped (and is used by the bees). I don't know why and don't have any evidence but the observation of the fact, year after year. But it is not the question ... How to harvest honey not quite capped ? DRYING THE HONEY by the bees ... There is a lot to say about the drying of the honey (thermodynamic): In the hive, it results of the temperature and humidity of the external air which is moved by the bees, heated by the brood (thus less humid=:vapor pressure of water in the air vary with temp.) and pass through the honey frames. This complex process give good results under usual conditions : it give honey which contains 17-21% water. But it fails when the conditions are different : for ex.: it is not possible to catch quite ripened honey on a small pacific atoll by 30dC and 100% relative humidity. HONEY UNCAPPED ... Is it ripened or is it not ? As Malcolm sayed, if it is after about 3 days without any crop, maybe it is ok, maybe it is not. It is possible to mesure the level of water in honey with a refractometer. There is some cheap but pay attention that you must be able to record the temperature while you read the water value : it strongly varies with the temp. Result : the refractometer give a correct value : you may extract the honey ... if not ... what do you do ? DRYING SUPERS ... It is possible to dry the honey in the frames with uncapped cells using a suitable, easy technology : the same technology than bees : Use a circulating dry air in the supers : I do it for 8 years with my whole crop of honey : the solution may be different while you have or not the material. My solution today (I have some other projects, but): Material : only a blower (with heating or not, the mine heats), and an empty super where you cut a hole to blow the air of your blower. Put this super and the blower in a dry room (honey-room?). When you have your supers with honey (honey not nectar, see above but no matter it is capped or not), put they all in one column on the blow-super and blow. If the room is dry, you are sure the honey is ok after 4-5 days (I had a ref about this but I don't put the hand on it). It is the easiest system : you could complicate it (I do it) (heat + thermostat 30dC max ! permanent blowing ! dehumidifier) My ref : In '93 I removed 120 kg of spring cherry trees honey while only 10% were capped (2 raining days, I must get out the orchard !) : the honey was correct, 16.7% water. So it's enough for today (if somebody wants more detail(s), ask.) Cheers Jean-Marie ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 14 Sep 1994 17:46:34 +0100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Malcolm Roe Subject: Re: bee questions In-Reply-To: <7CF50194@halls1.cc.monash.edu.au> from "Adrian Graham DENT" at Sep 14, 94 11:17:45 am > Also, for people who have mild allergy to honey, uncapped honey is > generaly a lot more irritating then the capped stuff. Really? I'd be interested in some evidence for this. I can't see any reason for it. > > The bees are eternal optimists. If the cells aren't full > > they leave them uncapped in the hope of more nectar becoming available. > > Um...I don't know about this...do you have any evidence to support > this? Now you're asking me for evidence! Well, it's certainly my experience. I don't have any beekeeping books with me at present but I'll look through them this evening. I've never seen half full cells capped. How is it done? Do the bees leave an air gap between the surface of the honey and the capping or do they put the capping halfway down the inside of the cell? Either way, I've never seen it. > I would asume that because of the > hygroscopic nature of honey, if it is left uncapped to long, it will > start taking up water again. Yes, but only in so far as the temperature in the supers is lower or the relative humidity higher than when the honey was originally being ripened. Neither of these change greatly until winter approaches. Of course, if you take an uncapped frame out of the hive that's completely different and the honey is then liable to start absorbing water. Perhaps I should have made myself a little clearer in my last contribution. If you decide to extract uncapped honey then first you should test the honey as I described before and then you should take it off and extract it quickly, not leave it standing around away from the hive. Finally, as with all extracted honey, it should be stored in a closed container. -- Malcolm Roe Phone : +44 442 230000 ext 5104 Crosfield Electronics Ltd Fax : +44 442 232301 Hemel Hempstead, Herts. HP2 7RH, UK E-mail : roe@crosfield.co.uk ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 14 Sep 1994 13:28:34 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: John Walter <74504.2437@COMPUSERVE.COM> Subject: Successful Farming article TO: Beekeepers, apiculturists, and others: FROM: John Walter, Conservation Editor, Successful Farming magazine, Des Moines, IA. USA 74504.2437@Compuserve.Com RE:Article on status of U.S. honeybees, honey industry I'm researching an article for our general-interest, national farm magazine with a circulation of 500,000. I read a recent report in Science about the decline of the honeybee due to parasitic mites. The article also discussed the economic difficulties being experienced in the honey industry--cheap imported honey and loss of federal price supports. If anyone would care to comment (for attribution or not),I'm interested in specific experiences or thoughts you may have that relate to any aspects of the issues here, including: * How severe is the problem? Is pollination of crops at stake, for example? What effects are being felt by general agriculture? * What are the potential solutions? * Is new research necessary? * Is there a replacement for the honeybee? * Is there a bigger story here? Does the plight of the honeybee symbolize the problem of exotic introductions generally? Thanks in advance for any help you may be able to provide. If you don't mind being quoted please give your full name, title, and coordinates. I'll clear the story with you prior to publication. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 Sep 1994 11:03:22 +1000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: ADC Administor Subject: Subject: Re: uncapped honey To: bee-l@uacsc2.albany.edu. (Bees Mail) Date: Thu, 15 Sep 1994 11:03:21 +1000 (EST) From: "ADC Administor" X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1884 Hi all, thaks for your responce. I wrote: > > > I once accidently left a full comb of capped honey in the shed, and by > > morning the honey was oozing out of its cells. I thought the cells were > > air-tight. > Adrian replied: > I take it the shed was cool??? Funny thing about wax, it melts when > it gets warm, and I would assume that if you have taken the frame out > of a hive, it would have been during summer, and I would suspect that > a shed isn't the coolest place available. :-> > Hope this is helpful to someone. > Adrian. > Well, yes, it was cool. It was one of those Australian seasons, which had hot days followed by cold nights. (You know, were both Melbournians!). But I think most people can distinguish between melting wax and oozing honey. I even tasted it to make sure. This frame I am talking about Adrian, had the appearance that it was covered by water droplets indicating oozing honey, whereas melted wax is much more flatter in structure. But I'm more satisfied with Blane's responce. He writes: > Jules, Oh, it's Steven. Jules is my account. Never mind. > Honey will absorb moisture from the air only if the relative humidity is > high enough. The cappings are not air tight or they would get blown > off when the atmospheric pressure dropped. If the relative humidity > is high enough honey will absorb moisture from the air through the > cappings. At lower relative humidities moisture will move from the > honey to the air drying the honey. If you put a small amount of honey > in a flat dish and let it set for several hours it will either become > runny from picking up moisture from the air, get thicker from losing > water to the air or remain about the same. It has to be pretty humid > for honey to absorb moisture in my experience. > blane > Now that's what I call an answer!! :-) Steven. TTNT (Till The Next Time) -- Steven Andrews Configuration Manager / Software Engineer Email Electronics 88-94 Cantebury Rd, Kilsyth, Victoria, 3137, AUSTRALIA. Tel : +61 3 728-7416 (Office) +61 3 728-1888 (Reception) E-mail : gemini@dev.ecs.oz.au or jules@dev.ecs.oz.au ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 Sep 1994 16:38:24 AEST+1000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Adrian Graham DENT (Rodent)" Organization: Monash University, Clayton Subject: Re: Subject: Re: uncapped honey > Well, yes, it was cool. It was one of those Australian seasons, which had > hot days followed by cold nights. (You know, were both Melbournians!). But > I think most people can distinguish between melting wax and oozing honey. Yes, I realise that, but the cappings would have been weakened if it was warm, hence the honey would be able to ooze. Also, warmer honey (as I am sure you have noticed) oozes more easily than cool honey. > But I'm more satisfied with Blane's responce. He writes: You may be, but I think I disagree a little... > > Honey will absorb moisture from the air only if the relative humidity is > > high enough. The cappings are not air tight or they would get blown > > off when the atmospheric pressure dropped. If the relative humidity So what you are saying is that those wrinkles in the top of the capped honey are purely decorative??? I have often wondered, as humans (and most other animals) are air tight (more or less) how come we don't blow apart when presure drops??? Honey is denser than water (did you notice this??) and water dosen't change noticibly in volume in most atmospheric drops in pressure, unless they contain a good deal of air, in which case bubbles form. But I wouldn't have thought there could be enough of a drop in pressure to blow the cells apart as described. If you have supporting information, please let me know and I will happily acknowledge that I am wrong. Also, yes, honey will lose moisture to the atmosphere, if it is warm and dry, and the air is moving. On a warm still day, whether it is humid or dry, the honey will not lose any moisture (or absolutely negligible amounts). On cool days, it acts the same as on warm days, except that it hardly ever LOSES moisture. If you leave honey open in a fridge, it will take in water. (I have seen this myself...) But yes, as you said, Steven (or was it the other guy) that was a good answer. Adrian. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 Sep 1994 07:46:34 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Aaron Morris Subject: Unripe Honey? Go with the flow! The major concern about unripe honey is that it will ferment. Well rather than resisting the natural process, go with the flow. Extract the unripe honey and use it to make mead! DISCLAIMER: This is not a blatant plug for mead-lovers@eklektix.com ! Aaron Morris - Still thinking, still beeing! ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 Sep 1994 09:38:21 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Chris Conroy Subject: Honey smell I haven't been able to check my hives in a few weeks - this is my first hive. There is a sickly sweet honey smell coming from the hive, and you can smell it over 20 feet away. The smell isn't overpowering, but it is noticeable. From the outside, everything seems normal. I'm going to check out the hive this weekend (weather permitting), but I was wondering if this is unusual. Chris cconroy@mit.edu ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 Sep 1994 09:47:01 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: RICHARD E BONNEY Subject: Uncapped honey Hello all A couple of points to consider relative to the ongoing discussion on uncapped honey. Wax glands are stimulated to activity by incoming nectar (or by anything that simulates a nectar flow). These glands do not function at the will of the bees. As the nectar flow winds down, the bees are not stimulated to secrete wax. At some point they stop. Further, it is known that there are physiological changes in the bees as they go into winter. Perhaps that is starting to come into the picture here too. Cappings are definitely some protection but they are permeable to moisture. Without question, a certain amount of ripe (and usable) honey may remain uncapped at the end of the season. Test it with a refractometer. Dick Bonney rebon@ent.umass.edu ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 Sep 1994 10:00:00 CST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Matt Ter Molen Subject: Re: Honey smell This smell is more than likely from goldenrod honey that the bees are ripening in the hive. It is very noticeable in the hives around the fall when the bees are gathering nector from goldenrod and aster. Just last night I walked through my apiary and the pungent smell was noticeable from 50 yards away. Matt Ter Molen. dwbmjtmt@uchimvs1.uchica go.edu. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 Sep 1994 10:21:00 CST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Matt Ter Molen Subject: Re: Uncapped honey One final comment on this subject. I wouldn't recommend the robbing technique, but I did want to mention this option for dealing with uncapped honey. The axiom I use is, err on the side caution. Don't sell the honey but feed it back utilizing the previously mentioned techniques. Matt Ter Molen. DWBMJTM@UCHIMVS1.UCHICAGO.EDU ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 Sep 1994 11:46:34 PDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jane Beckman Subject: Re: Honey smell I call this the "happy bees" smell. I think it's as much pheromones of some sort anything else. I notice it around my hive, too. It does seem to have appeared when the bees were building queen cells, though. I'd check on this. It also seems to be associated with a good honeyflow (which would lead to colony buildup, which would lead to desires to swarm...). Jane B. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 Sep 1994 18:16:01 +0100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Malcolm Roe Subject: Re: bee questions In-Reply-To: <7CF50194@halls1.cc.monash.edu.au> from "Adrian Graham DENT" at Sep 14, 94 11:17:45 am Adrian Dent said:- > If you have evidence that ripened honey remains uncapped, please tell > me. I looked through a few books last night. I didn't have time to look very thoroughly but here are some examples from authors spread around the world. Ted Hooper in "Guide to Bees and Honey", (UK) says:- "Unsealed honey is unsealed sometimes because it is still being worked by the bees and has not yet reached a low enough water content for them to seal it, and sometimes because the flow of nectar has ceased and, although the honey is up to gravity, the cells are not full and so are left unsealed while the bees wait for more to arrive." He then goes on to describe the shaking test I suggested yesterday to determine if the unsealed honey is ripe enough to extract. Richard Bonney in "Hive Management", (USA) and Andrew Matheson in "Practical Beekeeping in New Zealand", (NZ) are both somewhat less explicit but also agree that unsealed honey can sometimes be extractable, particularly at the end of the season, and recommend the same shaking test. I notice Richard Bonney has also just posted something to more or less the same effect here on Bee-l. -- Malcolm Roe Phone : +44 442 230000 ext 5104 Crosfield Electronics Ltd Fax : +44 442 232301 Hemel Hempstead, Herts. HP2 7RH, UK E-mail : roe@crosfield.co.uk ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 16 Sep 1994 11:23:01 AEST+1000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Adrian Graham DENT (Rodent)" Organization: Monash University, Clayton Subject: Re: Honey smell > This smell is more than likely from goldenrod honey that the bees are What is golden rod?? I have been following this discussion with interest, because occasionaly my hives smell real strongly to, but if golden rod is an american plant, I don't think that would be the answer. Does anyone know of any australian equivalent?? Adrian. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 16 Sep 1994 00:32:40 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Phil Veldhuis Subject: Re: Honey smell In-Reply-To: <9409160301.AA29858@rigel.cc.umanitoba.ca> from "Adrian Graham DENT" at Sep 16, 94 11:23:01 am Adrian Graham DENT insightfully writes: > > > This smell is more than likely from goldenrod honey that the bees are > > What is golden rod?? I have been following this discussion with > interest, because occasionaly my hives smell real strongly to, but if > golden rod is an american plant, I don't think that would be the > answer. Does anyone know of any australian equivalent?? > You _might_ be barking up the wrong tree here. Sometimes at night, or evening, when things are still, and I am walking around the bee yard, I can smell the alarm pher.. from the hives. Even before I touch them, if I haven't smoked, they produce it readily. It has a sick-sweet smell. IF your hives are making this smell to the extent described here, then you may have a rodent-intruder in your bee yard regularly. This will make the bees a bit edgy. Which _just_ is producing alarm pheremone (sp?) (can't be bothered to look it up). Just a suggestion, from a person who checks his hives at odd hours, Phil -- ------------oooooooooooooooOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOooooooooooooo------------- Phil Veldhuis | "if something is not worth doing, Winnipeg. MB, Canada | it is not worth doing right" veldhui@cc.umanitoba.ca | Dave Barry (1985) ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 14 Sep 1994 09:08:34 CST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Vladimir Ptacek Subject: Re: Uncapped honey Dear Jeff, As far as I know you can extract uncapped honey assuming that the honeyflow stopped about a week ago. During this time bees convert nectar into quality honey. You can make a test: Jerk with the comb (in horizontal level) and if no honey drops out of cells you can extract. Best regards, Vladimir Ptacek (Czech Republ.) (ptacek@sci.muni.cz) ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 16 Sep 1994 12:11:29 +0200 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: nokrian rivka Subject: Bee distance for experiments... Hello bee-people, I'm doing a research on melon pollination in greenhouses. Melon plants have both male and hermaphrodite flowers, numbers of which are changing with plant age and climatic factors. It seems that honeybees, which are brought in for pollination, do not discriminate between the two, but also seem to pay more visits to the male flowers. Male flowers are a bit smaller, nectar has a higher concentration in the male flowers (25% and more in winter), although in hermaphrodite flowers at times I can collect a larger volume (3-5 microliters). I wanted to carry out some experiment on honeybees ability to distinguish between male and hermaphrodite flowers. My idea is to put petry dished with honey/sugar solutions to draw the bees and later to use plates of different size and with different concentrations of solutions to see which of them the bees prefer. My hives are placed next to our local botanical garden, which is very small and has a few buildings (like a tropical greenhouse and the like) in it. I know the papers and books by Von Frisch and other, but I'm not sure about some aspects of such an experiment. Can anyone help please? 1) What is the best distance from the hive to begin the experiment from (I read somewhere that about 200m is the distance used)? 2) What is a good concentration to use for the solutions (I once used 40-45% but not many bees came to eat, perhaps because of the distance)? 3) How long do I keep the plates open, or how often do I have to change the plates and renew the contents? Not the experiment itself, just the beginning phase where I want to bring the bees to the experiment cite? Any information and ideas will be welcomed. Please forward any replies to: Rivka Nokrian, E-mail: rebeca@ccsg.tau.ac.il Thanks, Rivka ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 16 Sep 1994 09:28:29 PDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jane Beckman Subject: Re: Honey smell >> This smell is more than likely from goldenrod honey that the bees are >...if golden rod is an american plant, I don't think that would be the answer. I can also attest that there is NO goldenrod anywhere in my vicinity, but my bees produce this smell now and then. As I say, I keep having the feeling there is a pheromonal component in it. Hives run by biochemistry. ;-) Jane B. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 16 Sep 1994 09:43:59 PDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jane Beckman Subject: Re: Honey smell I think the idea of alarm pheromone is a good one. However, I'm going to suggest that there may also be other pheromones involved. I know the smell of alarm, and there's also a sweet honey smell that is different. (I have a very developed sense of smell---when I was doing field botany, I would often i.d. plants simply by smelling them.) As I said before, it might be a good idea to check what's going on in your hive, when you get these smells---swarming behavior? Something disturbing the hive? Something else? Jane B. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 16 Sep 1994 13:27:24 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Bill Morrison Subject: Hive smell Recent discussions on the topic of the odor of beehives in the northeastern US did not include mention of asters as the source. Around this time of year there is frequently a honeyflow based mainly on asters here in southcentral Pennsylvania. A walk into a patch of Aster pilosus (Ithink) which grows in old fields will reveal to the observer the source of the butterscotch-like fragrance being picked up by the bees. Its quite strong and not unpleasant. Bill Morrison wjmorr@ark.ship.edu ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 16 Sep 1994 23:23:06 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Vaughn M Jr Bryant Subject: Request to be added to the bee email list I would like to be added to the email list of those interested in bees and honey. Although my return address might fool some people, I am a palynologist working in a number of areas, including mellisopalynology. At the present time Dr. G. Jones and I have just sent our book off to the editor of AASP. The book is a pollen atlas of southern U.S. flora with special emphasis on floral types utilized by bees in the production of honey. Please inform me if you receive this message and what I need to do to be added to the bee-honey mailing list. Thank you. Vaughn M. Bryant, Jr. (vbryant@tamu.edu) Professor and Head Department of Anthropology Texas A&M University College Station, Texas 77843-3452 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 17 Sep 1994 15:03:08 GMT+1000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Chad Rowe Subject: FTP SITES I wonder if anyone would know some FTP sites where beekeeping information may be located. Thanks, Chad Rowe ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 17 Sep 1994 09:26:21 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Pollinator@AOL.COM Subject: new newsletter A new practical resource for fruit and vegetable growers, pollination beekeepers, extension and others interested in pollination. Subscription info from Eastern Pollinator Newsletter, PO Box 1215, Hemingway, SC 29554 (phone 803-558-9598) Planning a list of eastern beekeepers who do pollination service, deadline 1-1-95, if you want to be listed. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 17 Sep 1994 08:50:42 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Allen Dick 546-2588 Subject: Re: Bee distance for experiments... In-Reply-To: <9409170658.AA05340@cuugnet.cuug.ab.ca> The number of bees visiting a source will depend on the competing sources. This in turn will depend on the time of day and the time of year and the location. The concentration of the sugars of each source will affect attractiveness as will any scent associated with the bait. In the summer during a honey flow, any amount of honey or syrup may be exposed for days in a beeyard without even attracting a single bee visit - the flowers are that much more attractive! In fact during the summer we remove thousands of supers of honey, simply by stacking them, bees and all on pallets on the yard until we return to pick them up - sometimes several days later. The honey does not interest them even slightly until the flow wanes. Then watch out, because they will empty full supers in a hour or two. As a point of interest: The bees ALL leave quickly from the full supers during a heavy flow - they apparently have not read the books which say that young bees stay in the hive and do not fly for some time after emerging. Our experience indicates that during a heavy flow virtually every bee in every foraging hive has flown enough to orient and will return promptly to its own hive within hours. I don't believe that the distance is a critical factor in training bees to visit a dish, bees will visit sources at considerable distances, say a mile or so away if the hive is powerful enough and there are no competing sources that are equally or more attractive - considering distance, scent, colour, concentration, height, previous experience of hive, preferred direction of flight, prevailing winds, time of day, etc. etc. etc. Hope this is of some slight use to you - good luck with your experiments - hope to hear the results. W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper Rural Route One Swalwell Alberta Canada T0M 1Y0 Phone/Fax: 403 546 2588 Email: dicka@cuug.ab.ca ~ On Fri, 16 Sep 1994, nokrian rivka wrote: > Hello bee-people, > I'm doing a research on melon pollination in > greenhouses. Melon plants have both male and hermaphrodite flowers, > numbers of which are changing with plant age and climatic factors. > It seems that honeybees, which are brought in for pollination, do not > discriminate between the two, but also seem to pay more visits to the > male flowers. Male flowers are a bit smaller, nectar has a higher > concentration in the male flowers (25% and more in winter), although > in hermaphrodite flowers at times I can collect a larger volume > (3-5 microliters). > I wanted to carry out some experiment on honeybees ability to > distinguish between male and hermaphrodite flowers. My idea is to put > petry dished with honey/sugar solutions to draw the bees and later to > use plates of different size and with different concentrations of > solutions to see which of them the bees prefer. My hives are placed next > to our local botanical garden, which is very small and has a few > buildings (like a tropical greenhouse and the like) in it. > I know the papers and books by Von Frisch and other, but I'm not > sure about some aspects of such an experiment. Can anyone help please? > > 1) What is the best distance from the hive to begin the experiment from > (I read somewhere that about 200m is the distance used)? > 2) What is a good concentration to use for the solutions (I once used > 40-45% but not many bees came to eat, perhaps because of the distance)? > 3) How long do I keep the plates open, or how often do I have to change > the plates and renew the contents? Not the experiment itself, just the > beginning phase where I want to bring the bees to the experiment cite? > > Any information and ideas will be welcomed. Please forward any replies to: > > Rivka Nokrian, E-mail: rebeca@ccsg.tau.ac.il > > Thanks, Rivka > ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 17 Sep 1994 16:19:19 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "" Subject: Re: new newsletter Please keep me posted on your newsletter L. Connor ljconnor@aol.com P.O. Box 817 Cheshire CT 06410 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 17 Sep 1994 21:57:16 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "" Subject: Hurricane protection Re: protecting bees threatened by hurricane, query by Barry Chandler, here are some thoughts: Having had about 800 hives within the eyewall area of Hurricane Hugo, and spending 9 weeks as a volunteer in Homestead after Hurricane Andrew, I think I can speak with some competence on hurricanes and effects on bees. Hugo directly cost me about 50 hives. Ten were at the edge of Winyah Bay, and the storm surge got them. Perhaps some got to Great Britain in time for spring bloom on the "Gulf Stream Express". About 25 were crushed by falling trees and were totally destroyed. The rest were tipped over, and since most were inaccessible for quite a while (my chain saw didn't cool off for weeks) they got robbed out by other bees and yellow jackets which were a real plague after the storm. Two things I think protected them quite a bit. One is that few had more than one super (they were all out for pollination on fall cukes & squash) so they weren't very tall and had little wind resistance. Second, I usually place them in wooded areas for shade and sting protection of field workers. Most of the pines snapped at about 12-15 feet, so there was still quite a bit of wind shelter at ground level. One group that was in an open field had only tiny clusters. On a warm night, if you thump on a hive, the bees will cover the outside. I suspect that happened resulting in the bees being blown away. Andrew occurred just before the fall pepper honeyflow, so more bees were supered, and higher hives were more apt to blow over in the storm. Those who were able to get them closed back quickly had little direct losses. Otherwise there was heavy robbing damage. A lot of the area is low, and there was a lot more water damage. Several hundred hives were totally lost to the storm surge on the mangrove swamps near Turkey Point. With both Andrew and Hugo, the aftermath was far more devastating to the bees than the storm itself. Debris makes great breeding for flies and mosquitoes and aerial applications were done in both cases. These are label violations, of course, if done while bees are flying, but it is mighty hard to get attention. The post-Hugo spraying nearly destroyed my business, and eradicated wild honeybees in many areas, because they were hit late in the fall, when there was not time to recover cluster strength for winter cold. I tried stimulative feeding, but the queens just would not lay in the cold. Bees were sprayed on many warm sunny afternoons while bees were working goldenrod and aster, and the field force just dropped at the spot. I repeatedly notified our "environmental protectors" that bees were foraging and applications were in violation. I offered to help them set up monitoring to determine when bees were foraging. They refused. There were many days they could have sprayed all day with no damage. Andrew spraying heavily damaged several beekeepers as well. Beekeepers went to heavy syrup feeding to get back up to strength. They were helped by the pepper flow (-nothing seems to stop that plant!) When normal mosquito control programs resumed at night, the damage stopped (bees are not out). An interesting sidelight: migratory beekeepers who normally winter in the area did not come because of the devastation. One squash grower commented to me: Andrew must have messed up something with the weather, or something with the plants that we just don't understand, because I can't get my fields to make anything. I asked him if he had any bees. It was fascinating to see the lights come on (you know -that little light bulb over their heads!), as he considered. "Well last year I had 50 hives on this field, forty on this one, a hundred on this one. The beekeeper didn't come this year." He called someone and he had bees the next day. I saw him a week later and he was smiling. As to the storm itself, the best thing one could do to prepare is to make sure the bees are not in low areas. Either the storm surge or heavy rain is apt to flood them. Then get them into as low a profile as possible by removing supers. Some good heavy blocks would sure help. Remember you have to deal with two types of wind. One is the sustained hurricane winds which the bees should be able to stand fairly well. The other is the embedded tornados, which nothing will stand. They said we had about 3000 in Hugo. Before the storm, get your chainsaw sharpened & tuned up. Generator, too, if you have one, or can get one. You won't afterwards. Next get back to the bees as quickly as possible to forestall robbing. That is really tough, of course, if the roof of your home is missing. What to do about the poisoning? Trying to stop them from spraying would be a total waste; you know they are going to do it (mosquitoes almost carried me off one day). But we've got to work to make them obey the label, which is required by law. Know the law ahead of time. I don't know if it would work, but I know what I'd do today, if they did another daytime aerial program. I'd notify them that bees are foraging during the application, which is a label violation. I'd offer to help them monitor when bees are foraging (in writing). I'd document the foraging bees and the application with a video, if I could, or by witnesses. If they continued to apply in violation, I'd go to the judge and swear out a warrant for their arrest on willful (criminal) pesticide misuse. I think that would tend to bring them into compliance. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 17 Sep 1994 22:18:11 -0400 Reply-To: adamf@vtaix.cc.vt.edu Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Adam Finkelstein Subject: Listserv mail tips...for beginners Hello, If you are going to write a letter to the bee-l listserv, please include your **electronic address** so that people may respond to you, rather than the list, and ostensibly, to everyone. If you can, setting the "reply to" header, to your address works well too. Anyone replying using a mailer's "reply to" function will automatically send their mail to you. thanks, Adam -- =========================================================================== Adam Finkelstein adamf@hopper.itc.virginia.edu adamf@vtaix.cc.vt.edu =============================================== |Bees To Please| ======= ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 18 Sep 1994 11:56:23 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Joseph Cooper Subject: Cordobans In-Reply-To: I've recently put artificially inseminated Cordovan queens in two of my colonies. The ladies are doing just dandy; but I realize that I know next to nothing about the strain. Would be grateful for direct instruction and also for pointers to the literature. ************************* * Joseph Cooper * * jcooper@infinet.com * ************************* ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 18 Sep 1994 17:23:09 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Percy M. Simmonds" Subject: Re: New catalog please send me a copy of your new catalog, Look forward to receiving your materials. Thanks ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 18 Sep 1994 17:25:52 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Percy M. Simmonds" Subject: Re: New catalog Please send copy of catalog to: Percy Simmonds P.O. Box 1313 Charlottetown, PEI C1A 7M8 Thanks ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 18 Sep 1994 22:09:47 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Frederick Chase Subject: use of Apistan Will someone kindly advise this hobbyist on the use of Apistan? Our state bee inspector has found varroa mites in my hives, and I have ordered and received Apistan strips. The leaflet published by Zoecon, the manufacturer, indicates that the strips may be placed in the hive at any time without affecting the honey. "Scientific analysis proves that Apistan leaves no detectable residue in honey." However, when I read the package of Apistan itself I find these instructions: "Remove honey supers before application of Apistan strips and do not replace until the end of the control period." Which advice is correct? And if I have to keep my honey supers off the hive for at least 28 days where are all my bees going to be during this time? They certainly cannot all fit into the brood chamber. Thanks in advance for whatever help any can give me. Zoecon should not be so contradictory. F. J. Chase ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 19 Sep 1994 00:38:12 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: SLCSQUARED@DELPHI.COM Subject: RBS Dear Friend, Since you are someone who reads E-Mail, I thought you might be interested in getting a free copy of an unusual report. This report, entitled "Remote Backup Systems", describes a new data service that could be valuable to your community. Did you know anyone with a PC, a modem, and a telephone line could perform off-site back-ups for businesses in their area? And did you know that this service could generate up to ten thousand dollars per phone line, per month, (while the RBS operator is at home asleep) ? If you'd like more details, you can get your free copy of this report by calling Golden Lantern Data, at : 714-587-3186 . (24 hours) Best Regards, S. Conroy P.S. By the way, there is no obligation. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 19 Sep 1994 07:21:06 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Joseph Cooper Subject: Request for address My local mailer daemon is rejecting the address that had previously connected me to Adam Finkelstein (adamf@hopper.itc.virginia.edu). Attempts to finger Adam generate the unknown host error msg. Where are you, Adam? Where is he, Andy? Anyone else care to throwin a wild guess? Joe ************************* * Joseph Cooper * * jcooper@infinet.com * ************************* ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 19 Sep 1994 09:02:15 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Chris Conroy Subject: Hive smell Hi all, Thanks to all who responded to my mention of a "sickly sweet smell" emanating from my hive. My wife and I opened the hive and everything looks wonderful. Both hive bodies are almost entirely full (partially capped), and our small super is about half full (partially capped). There is an amazing amount of golderod and the asters are blooming as well right now. I believe the smell is just good 'ole honey - and this being our first hive we just weren't ready for this overwhelming smell! Thanks again, Chris cconroy@mit.edu ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 19 Sep 1994 09:04:08 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Chris Conroy Subject: Yellowjacks? Hi all, We've noticed more yellowjack activity around our hive lately? What could be the reason for this? My wife mentioned that she saw what appeared to be a honeybee on it's back with a yellowjack sitting on top - she couldn't really tell what was going on. Are yellowjacks predators? Chris ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 19 Sep 1994 09:57:21 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Yale Simkin Subject: Re: RBS You are violating the rules of this newsgroup. Your Internet supplier will be notified and your account should be terminated ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 19 Sep 1994 10:05:45 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Yale Simkin Subject: Please ignore Flame I just received an unsolicited ad for products outside of the scope of this newsgroup. By mistake, I responded to this breach of netiquette by posting the flame to our group, rather than to the source. (I hit the wrong button) . Sorry... ----yale ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 19 Sep 1994 07:29:52 PDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Adrian Wenner Subject: Re: Please ignore Flame Yale, I think it good that you did alert the entire group. It serves as a gentle reminder to all of us that there are both written and unwritten rules of protocol. Adrian W. *************************************************************** * Adrian Wenner E-Mail wenner@lifesci.lscf.ucsb.edu * * Department of Biology Office Phone (805) 893-2838 * * University of California Lab Phone (805) 893-2838 * * Santa Barbara, CA 93106 FAX (805) 893-4724 * *************************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 19 Sep 1994 10:50:33 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Resent-From: Mike Ramundo Comments: Originally-From: Elizabeth Balogh From: Mike Ramundo Subject: Varroa Mites Fellow Beekeepers, I'm in need of your assistance. My brother, is the beekeeper in the family. He just discovered that a few of his 250 hives have been infested with Varroa mites. He has been using the Varroa mite strips. The strips do help some what. Another Beekeeper, suggested he use a chemical similiar to what the strips accomplish,but in liquid form. The brand name is called, " Maverick ". Has anyone on the bee list heard of this brand name? If so, could someone please explain the proper dosage or how to apply the chemical? Does anyone know of any other liquid chemicals for Varroa mites? Or have the same chemical makeup as "Maverick". In advance, thank you for your assistance and response. Elizabeth Balogh E-mail address: Internet: Elzabeth@ukanvm.cc.ukans.edu ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 19 Sep 1994 10:11:00 CST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Matt Ter Molen Subject: Re: Yellowjacks? Yes, they are predators and will try and enter weak hives (esp. this tim e of year). If you have a weak hive that can't defend its entrance you will want to reduce the entrance. Otherwise, you will see the wasps trying to enter. I see a lot of them around the hives scavenging dead bees. Matt Ter Molen. dwbmjtm@uchimvs1.uchicago.edu ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 19 Sep 1994 11:30:09 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "" Subject: Postal Address Needed Respond to: Pollinator@AOL.com My apologies for not mentioning: We have no plans, as of now, to publish electronically, so must have your postal address. Graphics are necessary to the publication, and I don't think this is possible on the net. (I'm new on the computor end, so clue me in, if there are possibilities here) Meanwhile we'll stick with the old, (usually) reliable snail, and use the net for resources. Our primary aim is to reach growers who need pollination --to be a practical educational tool, as well as pollination beekeepeers and support people. Beekeepers who are not involved in pollination, and do not intend to in the future, probably will not be interested. Briefly: Plan 4 issues for '95, subscription $12 for those four. (Anyone who objects to advertising should know, I don't see any profit potential, and expect to subsidize it for quite a while -- this is a service to agriculture.) If you are involved in crop pollination in eastern USA or Canada, I'd appreciate you feeding me info on what's going on in your area. Start off with an overview: what crops, how many hives, local or migratory, unusual crops, personal experiences, etc. Let's network. Eastern Pollinator, PO Box 1215, Hemingway, SC 29554 My soapbox: I sympathize with those who are trying to stop Chinese honey dumping, and I hope they win, but I'm afraid it's just spitting into the wind. What country will be the next villain? If we spent 10% of the energy that is going into this action, to improve our pollination systems and prevent pesticide misuse, we'd wind up a lot healthier industry. :) "I was born with a tremendous intelligence deficiency, and I still have some left." ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 19 Sep 1994 11:30:45 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "" Subject: Pesticide kill investigations Respond to: Pollinator@aol.com I'd appreciate if those of you who have had bee-kills communicate with me. Pesticide misuse continues to be a real threat to our pollinators, because 22 years after passage of FIFRA, it is still not being implemented and enforced. Knowledge is a powerful tool; USE IT. Often the authorities involved do not know the law. And Extension sometimes aids applicators to circumvent compliance with label directions! Following is one case. The NY Attorney General has been asked to ivestigate whether the DEC agent and his superiors committed malfeasance by providing false information, and by refusing investigation, and whether Fiegel's civil rights were violated by such action. However the Attorney General responds, I'm sure this is the last time this agent will act as though FIFRA didn't exist. 9-15-94 DEC REFUSES TO INVESTIGATE BEE KILL A large scale program to stop an army worm infestation in western New York caused damage to several area beekeepers, who noted that applications in violation of the label directions were responsible for the damage, but the NY Department of Environmental Conservation was unwilling to investigate. The most serious damage was sustained by Bruce Fiegel, of Appleton, NY who maintains about 1200 hives in the area for crop pollination and honey production. Bruce had 17 bee yards where damage occurred, affecting over 400 hives. Some 60-70 hives were killed, others lost their honey production, but he has hopes of their survival. Fiegel estimates 30% loss of his honey crop. He noted though, that bees were still dying in early September, while the applications were done in July. The symptoms are classic evidence of a highly residual pesticide stored away in the hive's pollen reserves. Fiegel said that NY Department of Environmental Conservation, Region 9 Pesticide Control Specialist Charles Cranston refused to investigate, saying that the bees were trespassers and that Fiegel should move. "They just blew me away." Fiegel angrily commented. He said that Cranston told him he would not investigate unless Fiegel proved that a violation occurred. He also allegedly told Fiegel that the department had no funds and was no longer doing bee kill investigations. Prior to the passage of the Federal Fungicide, Insecticide, and Rodenticide Act of 1972, bees were regarded as "trespassers" and were afforded no legal protection. However FIFRA set aside that precedent, and established protection for bees, as they forage, by specific label directions for each pesticide. Applicators are responsible for compliance with label directions, thus must know, prior to application, if bees are foraging in the application area. Foraging bees have the legal right-of-way according to such directions. They are not trespassers; they are an environmental resource. Cranston indicated that he declined to investigate, because Fiegel could not name the applicators, nor materials involved. DEC Pesticide Control Specialists are trained in all aspects of pesticides and pesticide law. In this case, apparently the burden of proof was laid upon the untrained victim. Fiegel has no legal right of entrance on private property, no access to applicator records (and might be involved in dangerous confrontations, if he tried without authority to do so). Fiegel's livelihood is threatened by this incident, but it has far greater repercussions in crop pollination losses. All of Fiegel's bees are used each year for apple pollination, and he is one of about 30 commercial beekeepers left in New York State, down from about 1500 at one time. At age 40 he is one of the youngest, as well. New York requires about 26,000 hives of bees for apple pollination. In addition to local bees, it is necessary to import migratory bees from South Carolina and Florida for the apple crop. The bees also pollinate many of New York's vegetable crops, some under contract, and some as an accidental benefit while beekeepers are trying to make honey. Studies indicate that pollination by honeybees is worth hundreds for each dollar's worth of honey production. Many beekeepers do not report pesticide damage, because they are afraid of hostile reactions, and this does sometimes happen in the form of loss of bee yard leases, vandalism, and even personal threats. _________________________________________________________ Another beekeeper apparently is negotiating a settlement with an applicator for part of his losses. DEC has been involved in this case. We'll try to post info on this, as soon as avaiable. Dave Green, PO Box 1215, Hemingway, SC 29554 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 19 Sep 1994 18:14:43 +0200 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jean-Marie Van Dyck Subject: Fluvalinate - Apistan Hi all ! To the brother of Elizabeth a mail I sent to the list on 27-MAY-1993 16:11:53.71 (to Andreas Kasenides) About Fluvalinate (merck index 10th ed. no 4107; 11th ed. no 4137) : Synthetic pyrethroid pesticide. Yellow-amber liquid. Vapor pressure: very low : don't vaporise ! Solub. in water : very, very low : 2 ppb... ! Thus : volatility very low, insoluble in water (and in honey) but soluble in the wax ! Used against varroa as plastic insert which contains 10 % of pure fluvalinate : trade mark APISTAN (Sandoz-Zoecon). The drug ooze slowly out of the plastic (very small cracks visible with electron microscope) and the bees are spreading it over the whole hive. The other fluvalinate mixtures (Klartan, Maverik, Mavrik, ZR-3210) contain compounds which allow solubilization (as detergent) of the drug in the water and thus in the honey ... The use of these drugs is prohibited in beekeeping. A last word : pay attention ... if a few hives are infected, then ... all your hives are infected ! Regards Jean-Marie In Reply to Elizabeth Balogh Mon, 19 Sep 1994 > My brother, is the beekeeper in the family. He just discovered that a > few of his 250 hives have been infested with Varroa mites. He has > been using the Varroa mite strips. The strips do help some what. > > Another Beekeeper, suggested he use a chemical similiar to what the > strips accomplish,but in liquid form. The brand name is called, " > Maverick ". Has anyone on the bee list heard of this brand name? If > so, could someone please explain the proper dosage or how to apply the > chemical? > > Does anyone know of any other liquid chemicals for Varroa mites? Or > have the same chemical makeup as "Maverick". ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 19 Sep 1994 09:42:00 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Paul van Westendorp 576-5600 Fax: 576-5652" Subject: Re: Honey smell Chris, You mentioned a sickly smell from your hive. I am afraid that you may not like what you find inside. The sickly smell could be the result of decaying brood caused by a bacterial disease, American Foulbrood or European Foulbrood. I suggest you contact your local inspector, Provincial or State Apiarist, or an experienced beekeeper nearby that can help you. You may also refer to beekeeping books such as 'The Hive and the Honeybee' by Datant & Son, or ABC & XYZ of Beekeeping by the Root Co. For a comprehensive, photographically enhanced booklet, you may wish to purchase 'Honey Bee Diseases & Pests', published by CAPA (Canadian Association of Professional Apiculturists) for US$1.35 /copy. To order, you may contact Dr. C. Scott-Dupree (CSDUPREE@evbhort.uoguelph.ca) or myself. Good luck! Paul van Westendorp (PVANWESTEN@galaxy.gov.bc.ca) Provincial Apiculturist BC Ministry of Agriculture, Fisheries & Food ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 19 Sep 1994 14:35:17 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "" Subject: Sickly smell Yes, goldenrod has a vulgar smell while it is being processed, which disappears when the honey is ripe. This smell seems to attract bears, as bear damage is much more common during goldenrod bloom. Another area which has not been mentioned is the general health of the hive. Smell is highly important to me, when rating my hives in preparation for winter (hard to do during goldenrod bloom though). A slight sour smell is common when bees have high levels of tracheal mite, chalkbrood disease, or a failing queen. This is to be distinguished from that "slap in the face" foulbrood smell. The sour smell idicates bees that are sickly or weak. I look for other symptoms like greasy looking bees and dark cappings on sealed brood (reworking old wax; just spinning wheels) Whether this is a failing queen or genetic weakness for disease, the solution is the same. Requeen. If it is too late in the season, eliminate the colony. Splitting your strong hives next spring will give you a far better replacement, than nursing poor bees through the winter, and often losing them in the spring. Last winter I culled about 250 hives for various weaknesses, and put my resources and feeding into my good bees. It paid off! ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 19 Sep 1994 11:53:40 PDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jane Beckman Subject: Re: Yellowjacks? I have a frequent "mugging" problem with yellowjackets around my hive. They not only scoop up any dead bodies that fall nearby, but they tend to hop on any incoming workers that seem sluggish or land too far from the hive. Yellowjackets, being carnivores for the most part, love bees as a food source. Strong colonies drive them off, but weak bees and stragglers beware! Jane B. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 19 Sep 1994 14:06:00 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Kerry Clark 784-2225 fax (604) 784 2299" Subject: Queen losses from formic acid? (I was asked for some clarification of an article I wrote, on the loss of queens (or at least peception by the colony, of a loss of the queen) following application of formic acid for mite control. I'm responding via the list, in hope of hearing from anyone who has experience with the problem.) (Background: Formic acid liquid is used in some areas, for killing parasitic mites in honey bee colonies. Sometimes (rarely in my experience) colonies which have been treated behave as if their queens have dissappeared: building emergency queen cells. At that point, a beekeeper would likely introduce a mated queen to keep the colony going. Sometimes, when such queens were not available, the original queen reappears. In other cases, the queen has apparently been killed by the bees.) I have reports of the following cases: 1) 10 queens reported lost out of 10, with the use of 85 % acid (as opposed to the usual 65 % concentration), 2) 124 queens gone out of 220, using about 40 ml 65 % (field diluted from 90 %) at about 90 deg F. 3) 60 queens gone out of 380, in single Langstroth hives, using 15 ml of 65 %, at 16 deg C. 4) a single hive which built emergency cells after treatment (30 ml x 65 % liquid on bottom board), but subsequently had the old queen still laying. 5) several of about 10 hives (of about 20 treated) which did as in # 4 6) 153 of 480 2 box Langtroth colonies, built emergency cells after they were treated May 20, 17 deg C. with 32 ml 65 %, on absorbent pads on the top bars. While cases 1 and 2 appear explainable by the concentration or temperature, the others are not as easily explained. No these are not controlled observations, with untreated control groups to indicate whether the cells resulted from the treatment, but the presence of so many synchronised emergency cells convinces most beekeepers who experience it, that the effect is real. The beekeeper reporting Case #3 suggested that the hives losing their queens were (maybe) the stronger ones. Other cases, with less specific losses (not counted) the beekeeper suggested the hives with older queens were the ones most frequently affected. Another suggested it was mostly queens from a specific queen breeder. Another speculated that the lost queens were infested by tracheal mites. The effect has been reported often enough to be a consideration in formic acid use, but not enough to make it a high prioity to try to reproduce and study, yet. I've been hoping that a pattern would emerge in the beekeeper reports, that could then be confirmed experimentaly. Kerry Clark, Apiculture Specialist B.C. Ministry of Agriculture 1201 103 Ave Dawson Creek B.C. V1G 4J2 CANADA Tel (604) 784-2225 fax (604) 784-2299 INTERNET KCLARK@GALAXY.GOV.BC.CA ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 19 Sep 1994 23:52:11 PDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Walt Dennig Subject: Re: RBS In-Reply-To: <9409182148.aa23484@cruzio.com>; from "SLCSQUARED@DELPHI.COM" at Sep 19, 94 12:38 am I resent what appears to be uninvited commercial activity on the internet. You have taken some of my valuable time that I would rather spend on chosen pursuits. Please restrict your postings to this net to matters that relate to the subject threads. Thank you. Walt -- Walt Dennig (wrdennig@cruzio.com) P.O.Box 578, Santa Cruz CA 95061-0578 USA 408-426-6141 FAX 408-457-2104 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 Sep 1994 09:18:28 +0200 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Martin Benoit Subject: Re: Successful Farming article You can find an article on this topics in Science vol. 265 26th august 1994 p.1170. This article presents the result of a honey bees decline in USA, and the influence on the pollination . Martin Benoit ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 Sep 1994 00:36:57 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Rob Bidleman Subject: Re: Request for address In-Reply-To: <199409191121.AA25503@mail.crl.com> On Mon, 19 Sep 1994, Joseph Cooper wrote: > My local mailer daemon is rejecting the address that had previously > connected me to Adam Finkelstein (adamf@hopper.itc.virginia.edu). ** The error seems to be at your end...I successfully finger'd the address and also did a [ping] to reveal the sites viability for mail etc. ---------------------------------------------------===robbee@crl.com===---- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 Sep 1994 10:29:45 CST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Vladimir Ptacek Subject: Re: Yellowjacks? Yes, yeloww jacks can be predators. They search for both, sugars and meat. Sugars are the principal food for adults and proteins for larvae. Wasps can enter hives and steal honey when colonies are weak to cover all the stores when weather is cold. They fly round the hives searching for any dead or weak honey bee (worker or drone) which they kill and cut into portions. Those parts of the bee body containing muscles (thorax) are then brought to wasp nests and fed to larvae. This activity would not be dangerous for bee colonies. On the opposite this is an useful sanitary cleaning of the nearest vicinity of hives. But if there is not this kind of prey enough larger species of vasps (Vespa, Vespula) attack honey bees at the hive entrances and kill them. In the battle between bee and wasp the latter usually is the victor. It cannot be excluded that wasp can transfer bee diseases among hives. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 Sep 1994 08:29:13 -0400 Reply-To: Joseph Cooper Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: W: SENDER field duplicated. Last occurrence was retained. From: Joseph Cooper Subject: Re: Request for address In-Reply-To: Thanks to all who have answered my request for Adam Finkelstein's address. Some maintain that the address "adamf@hopper.itc.virginia.edu" works as it has in the past. Others have pointed out that Adam's signature also includes the address "adamf@vtaix.cc.vt.edu." I have successfully reached Adam at the latter address. Adam's header uses the hopper machine; but he tells me that either address works. On another point: The list of freenet servers that are connected to the National Public Telecomputing Network, should include freenet.columbus.oh.us. The contact person is Stephen Gordon; e-mail= sgordon@freenet.columbus.oh.us. Thanks again to all who responded to my query. Joe ************************* * Joseph Cooper * * jcooper@infinet.com * ************************* ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 Sep 1994 13:59:58 +0100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Malcolm Roe Subject: Re: Yellowjacks? In-Reply-To: <37786.ptacek@elanor.sci.muni.cz> from "Vladimir Ptacek" at Sep 20, 94 10:29:45 am Vladimir Ptacek wrote: > They [wasps] fly > round the hives searching for any dead or weak honey bee (worker or drone) > which they kill and cut into portions. Those parts of the bee body > containing muscles (thorax) are then brought to wasp nests and fed to > larvae. I've often watched this behaviour myself but my observations are slightly different. Occasionally a wasp will attempt to remove a complete bee. Usually she is unsuccessful but sometimes she manages to get airborn. (Whether she actually gets the bee all the way back to the nest is another matter.) More often the bee is cut up but almost always it is the head that is removed and taken back to the nest. I don't think I've ever seen the thorax removed in this way. Another thing I've observed is that, with my hives at least, once a wasp has gained access she is no longer harassed by the bees. Instead she may wander freely inside the hive. On most of my hives the inner roof is made of a sheet of transparent plastic. If I remove the main roof quietly at this time of year I often see a wasp walking on the top bars of the frames. It used to worry me when I first started keeping bees. Now I'm not concerned. There are never many of them. I'm sure the damage they do is negligable. -- Malcolm Roe Phone : +44 442 230000 ext 5104 Crosfield Electronics Ltd Fax : +44 442 232301 Hemel Hempstead, Herts. HP2 7RH, UK E-mail : roe@crosfield.co.uk ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 Sep 1994 07:43:05 PDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Adrian Wenner Subject: Re: Africanized bee article For those of you who get or can get the LOS ANGELES TIMES, the 18 September issue contained a lengthy article on Africanized bees in south Texas, including information on colony extermination. The main emphasis of the article was on the activities of Jim Sopczyk (alias "Jim Subject"). Also included were mentions of Anita Collins and Frank Eischen of the Weslaco Bee Research Laboratory (in the town where the American Bee Research Conference will be held next month). Can anyone get me in touch with Jim Sopczyk? We corresponded with one another two years ago (after another ABRC conference), but the address I had for him is no longer valid; neither is he listed for a phone in Weslaco. Adrian W. *************************************************************** * Adrian Wenner E-Mail wenner@lifesci.lscf.ucsb.edu * * Department of Biology Office Phone (805) 893-2838 * * University of California Lab Phone (805) 893-2838 * * Santa Barbara, CA 93106 FAX (805) 893-4724 * *************************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 Sep 1994 09:08:33 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: David Hinz Subject: Re: new newsletter In-Reply-To: <199409172023.AA20267@eskimo.com> Thanks for sending the catalogs and newsletters. ehan On Sat, 17 Sep 1994, wrote: > Please keep me posted on your newsletter > L. Connor > ljconnor@aol.com > P.O. Box 817 > Cheshire CT 06410 > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 Sep 1994 13:42:09 BSC Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Vagner de Alencar Arnaut de Toledo Organization: FUEM/Fundacao Universidade Estadual de Maringa - Parana - Brasil. Subject: catalog Please send me a copy of your new catalog. Thanks My address is in the signature. ======================================================================= VAGNER TOLEDO +++ +++ UNIV. EST. MARINGA - DZO ___---___ BIENE 00) (00 ODER COLOMBO AV. 3690 00) (00 BIENE? 87020-900 MARINGA - PR - BRAZIL (-=======-) TEL. (044) 2262727 R.319 ,% %%& &. (!!!!!!!!!) .% %&% % FAX. 00-55-044-2222754 ,% *(!!!!!!!)* %, * ( ) * * ( ! ) * BITNET: VGTOLEDO AT BRFUEM * " * ======================================================================= ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 Sep 1994 14:30:08 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Robert T. Reed" <73624.2723@COMPUSERVE.COM> Subject: Warding off Robber Bees -- [ From: Robert T. Reed * EMC.Ver #2.0 ] -- I have heard frrom an older bee keeper of an old technique of warding off robber bees, that has worked for me. I thought I would pass it on for what ever it is worth. Maybe it was just coincidence, or this technique really works. If any one out there has ever heard of this , please add your thoughts to this notice: What I did was hang a rag that was soaked in kerosene in front of, and just above the entrance, of my hive. This is supposed to be offensive to outsider or robber bees, but not to the bees that reside within. Again, I say, it may be coincidence, but it really worked for me, and I would like to pass it on. Let me know what you think. (a new bee keeper) Bob Reed ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 Sep 1994 15:28:51 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: RICHARD E BONNEY Subject: Where are the insects? Greetings Have any of you observed a shortage of hymenoptera this year? Here in western Massachusetts I have seen almost no halictids, and fewer than usual bumblebees, polistes, and mud daubers, and no yellowjackets except for a couple of queens in the early season. I heard indirectly that an area in southern Indiana has no pollinating insects. The individual reporting this says that wild tree fruits and berries were not pollinated and as a result there are no berries or fruits for migrating birds. What are others of you experiencin, and why? Dick Bonney rebon@ent.umass.edu ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 Sep 1994 17:31:14 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Dave D. Cawley" Subject: Re: Where are the insects? > From: RICHARD E BONNEY > Have any of you observed a shortage of hymenoptera this year? Here in > western Massachusetts I have seen almost no halictids, and fewer than > usual bumblebees, polistes, and mud daubers, and no yellowjackets except > for a couple of queens in the early season. I've noticed more Bumble bees and yellowjackets this year, but fewer of other bugs in NE PA. While we're trading stuff...I have patches of dark brown honey in my nice yellow goldenrod, any clue as to what it might be? My "mentor" mentioned something about there might be some kind of bamboo something or other in the area. ******************************************************************************** Dave D. Cawley | Only the economic organization is capable of setting University of Scranton | on foot a true political party of labor, and thus Scranton, Pennsylvania | raise a bulwork against the power of capital. ddc1@jaguar.uofs.edu | -Karl Marx ******************************************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 Sep 1994 13:59:38 PDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jane Beckman Subject: Re: Where are the insects? The report from the SF Bay Area here in California--- I was wondering what was going on, this year, as well. I have had almost a 75% drop in Hymenoptera activity in my garden. I have lots of herb plants, and you can almost always find hymenoptera working the borage and Labiatae, but this year about the only thing that I've seen is leaf-cutter bees and honeybees from my own hive. I have seen so few of the smaller solitaries that I've found it worrisome. The carpenter bees are very scarse, and counting a couple bumblebee queens early in the season, I've seen maybe six bumblebees, total. I also almost always get some ground-nesting solitary wasps, but have seen none of these, either. There even seem to be fewer yellowjackets. The pollination on my garden has definitely been down, even with the help of my own hive. My cukes are sparse, and I've gotten no melons or squash. I've started hand-pollinating the squash. So what is going on? I don't think mites are taking out *everything.* Is this "Silent Spring," finally come to roost, or what? I, too, would be interested in reports from around the country. Jane B. [jane@swdc.stratus.com] ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 Sep 1994 18:18:12 +0000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Rick Hough Subject: RE>Where are the insects? Dick Bonney wrote: >Have any of you observed a shortage of hymenoptera this year? Here in >western Massachusetts I have seen almost no halictids, and fewer than >usual bumblebees, polistes, and mud daubers, and no yellowjackets except >for a couple of queens in the early season. Dick, A non-scientific observation, to say the least, but in my back yard (Essex County - NE corner of Massachusetts), I didn't notice many yellowjackets early (but then again, I was out less than usual), but I've noticed more than usual recently - particularly when I put out a bottom board that had a bunch of honey on it - I left it quite a ways from my apiary, the honey bees found it & started cleaning (as I wanted them to), but I also noticed that there were an equal number of yellowjackets working it. Needless to say, the honey was gone very quickly! Rick Hough, Hamilton, MA, USA rshough@tasc.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 Sep 1994 15:40:24 PDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Chris Laughbon Subject: Re: Where are the insects? >The report from the SF Bay Area here... >So what is going on? I don't think mites are taking out *everything.* Is >this "Silent Spring," finally come to roost, or what? I, too, would be >interested in reports from around the country. >Jane B. Could it be the spraying of malathion has finally taken its toll? Did they spray for the med fly again? In way of review: the powers that be sprayed parts of the bay area from the air. Everything was sprayed with malathion. All for a fruit fly... Chris ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 Sep 1994 19:18:56 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Mike Griggs Subject: Re: Where are the insects? >>The report from the SF Bay Area here... >Could it be the spraying of malathion has finally taken its toll? Did they >spray for the med fly again? > >In way of review: the powers that be sprayed parts of the bay area from the >air. Everything was sprayed with malathion. All for a fruit fly... > >Chris Insects regularly go through cycles, classic examples often brought up via the media include the Gypsy Moth and its build up and collapse. Here in NY I have observed up and down years for everything from butterflies to polistes. This past winter was definitely a bit on the extreme but one probably cannot conclude that this was the sole cause for population collapse of polistes pops here but may have been a contributing factor. I bet they will be back in a few years since mans dwellings have artificially increased their habitat by providing excellent protective shelter both during the active and inactive periods of their life cycles. Guess in areas that were heavily sprayed with Malathion one could not discount this as a possible cause for a population crash but yearly cycles should bring the numbers back up. OMHO Mike ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 Sep 1994 16:29:00 PDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jane Beckman Subject: Re: Where are the insects? >mentioned something about there might be some kind of bamboo something or >other in the area. It wouldn't be bamboo, as bamboo is wind-pollinated (no nectar lures), and the internal fluids are not particularily sugary, even if it were oozing from damaged areas. Jane B. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 Sep 1994 16:34:42 PDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jane Beckman Subject: Re: Where are the insects? >Could it be the spraying of malathion has finally taken its toll? Did they spray for the med fly again? Now that we mention it, the area south of me was sprayed for fruit flies again, last year. In this case, it was ground-spraying only, but it was still spraying. I wonder if taking out an area in the south county will drift up to the mid-county, over time, or if you get insect drift (or thinning) between the areas? Jane B. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 Sep 1994 20:05:03 ES Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jeffrey Young Subject: Extractors? I have two healthy hives and have been a bee keeper for over 5 years (I plan to keep up bee keeping). I am interested in buying an extractor and would be interested in hearing any suggestions of model, features, etc. that you could offer so I have some basic info when I buy a unit. Thanks, jeff ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Jeffrey C. Young....................(with a backyard of bee hives, bat houses, Lotus Development Corp...............herb/vegi/flower gardens, wind chimes, Cambridge, Massachusetts 02142.....bird feeders, and ever decreasing lawn) Internet:jeffrey_young.lotus@crd.lotus.com...........wrk#:617-693-3925 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 Sep 1994 21:48:59 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Dave Green, Eastern Pollinator Newsletter" Subject: Re: dark honey on fr of goldenro Sounds like japanese bamboo to me. Very common along the Susquehenna and tribuataries, grows rank, in empty land in the floodplain, blooms in late summer, is kin to buckwheat and tastes like a mild form of it. Very nice in my book. But I was raised on buckwheat. Let me know what it tastes like. - Dave Reply to pollinator@aol.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 Sep 1994 21:55:20 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jean-Pierre Chapleau <73642.244@COMPUSERVE.COM> Subject: Quenn losses from formic acid I read with interest your report on queen losses from formic acid, Kerry. Like inferior queens are not as well accepted as superior queens when introduced into a colony, it makes sense that the bees ball them more readily if a big disturbance happens to the colony. How frequent would you estimate such queen loss problems are when the treatment is aplied properly? I am curious. Concerning the building of emergency cells in presence of the queen, do you consider this as an important and frequent problem? I suppose it could be attributed to a masking effect of the formic acid on the queen substance?. Would the addition of a pheromone lure in the colony resolve the roblem? Would this situation occur only in presence of an inferior queen providing too little queen substance to its colony? Jean-Pierre Chapleau, queen breeder Quebec, Canada ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 Sep 1994 21:58:07 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Dave Green, Eastern Pollinator Newsletter" Subject: Malathion spraying. What time is the application. If it is at night, there should be no problem. If it is while bees are foraging, it is a label violation, and it will drop a lot of bees. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Sep 1994 14:15:00 +1300 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Barry Donovan Subject: Wild beehive survival Following the advent of acarine and varroa mites in North America, are there any data on the survival of wild beehives? If commercial hives have to be treated regularly with Apistan to control varroa or the hives die, then what is the status of (untreated) wild hives? A few months ago a person reported from a coastal area south of San Francisco that honey bees were virtually absent from a wilderness walk where a few years ago they had been abundant. If wild honey bees have been markedly reduced, would not the beneficial consequences for native bees etc. be major? Yet there are reports that some bees and wasps have been fewer this summer. Has anyone been counting wild hives and bee numbers? Regards to all. Barry J Donovan Canterbury Agriculture and Science Centre Lincoln Private Bag 4704 Christchurch New Zealand. DonovanB@Crop.cri.nz ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Sep 1994 00:11:27 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: David Christenson Subject: Re: Where are the insects? Perhaps non-honeybee pollinators are more active in urban areas like mine. They were present in great numbers and variety in central Minneaplis this year, and I had plenty of re aspberries, srawberries, beans etc. to shwo ow for their efforts. On a hike in the Minnesota River Valley Wildlife Refuge recently, wasps and bunblebees were quite active among the wild fflowers (about a month ago). We had a deep freeze winter this year, too. Dave * (christensond@delphi.com) ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 Sep 1994 23:38:53 PDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Sharon Collman Organization: WSU CAHE USER Subject: Re: Yellowjacks? In-Reply-To: Message of Mon, 19 Sep 1994 09:04:08 EDT from Yellowjackets are predaceous and can be a problem in some areas. EB1477 "Protecting Honeybees Against Yellowjackets" is $.50 >From Bulletin Office Cooperative Extension Cooper Publications Building Washington State University Pullman, Wa. 99164-5912 My catalogue is 1992. Conceiveably the price has gone up to cover cuts and reductions. Please write to the publications office directly. I'm not in a county and don't have access to the bulletins. (not even my own copy. I believe the late and greatly missed Dr. Roger Akre, wrote this one, but Dr. Daniel Mayer may have also.) I had a beekeeper in a volunteer group that was trapping yellowjackets for a study. He used the traps we made to lure the yellowjackets and said it worked well to keep the yj's out of his hives. There are a number of traps on the market. The ones we tried did not work as well as the ones we made even when we baited them with the same attractant (hepyl buterate - a fruity smelling liquid). I would recommend you borrow and test. also you can make a reasonable trap by cutting off the top of a plastic liter pop "bottle" and invert the cone into the bottle. Put in salmon cat food. YJ's are fussy eaters and food should be fresh. Of course shrimp, chicken and boiled ham also are good. YJ's fly up, so tilt the cone so they fly into it and they will keep trying to get out the top. Oh. Poke some holes in the end where the catfood is so the smell can get out. And if you can make the opening smaller (about pencil diameter) it is even better. Like any good experimenter. have a control and keep notes on your experiments and good luck. SHARON J. COLLMAN W.S.U. COOPERATIVE EXTENSION URBAN IPM RESOURCE CENTER @ CENTER FOR URBAN HORTICULTURE UNIVERSITY OF WASHINGTON GF-15 SEATTLE, WA 98195 PHONE: 206-543-8616 E-MAIL COLLMANS@WSUVM1.CSC.WSU.EDU ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Sep 1994 16:56:40 AEST+1000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Adrian Graham DENT (Rodent)" Organization: Monash University, Clayton Subject: Re: Hive smell > Hi all, > > Thanks to all who responded to my mention of a "sickly sweet smell" emanating > from my hive. My wife and I opened the hive and everything looks wonderful. I thought I recalled reading something about a strong smell being assosciated with AFB, and when I checked, there certainly is, but any good beekeeper would probably notice other symptoms before the smell, as the smell only develops in the very advanced stages. The AFB smell was described as a "Glue pot" smell. I have no idea what this smells like, so can anyone enlighten me/us?? Adrian. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 Sep 1994 23:56:40 PDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Sharon Collman Organization: WSU CAHE USER Subject: Re: Varroa Mites In-Reply-To: Message of Mon, 19 Sep 1994 10:50:33 EDT from A reminder that all pesticides must be used according to the label instructions. No instructions, no use. If you are commercial, and there is a complaint, and it is determined that the label has been violated, it could cause serious problems: fines and pulling the honey off the market. To check for pesticide rules in your state, the state Department of Agriculture (pesticides section - whatever it's called in your state) investigates all complaints and can impose fines. they also register all pesticides and can tell you if Maverick has a label for use on bees. Your state apiary inspector may also be able to help. I am less familiar with Food and Drug Administrations rules. I realize that there are few choices for beekeepers, since it is a minor "crop" and a high risk ie cost if there is problems and you sue the company for bee loss. You may need to work through your apiary inspector and local IR-4 coordinator or the national association may need to get involved and help develop labels for bees. Finally, check with the manufacturer of the product you purchased. There may be something you are or are not doing. Good luck and Read and Heed that Label. SHARON J. COLLMAN W.S.U. COOPERATIVE EXTENSION URBAN IPM RESOURCE CENTER @ CENTER FOR URBAN HORTICULTURE UNIVERSITY OF WASHINGTON GF-15 SEATTLE, WA 98195 PHONE: 206-543-8616 E-MAIL COLLMANS@WSUVM1.CSC.WSU.EDU ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Sep 1994 17:15:48 AEST+1000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Adrian Graham DENT (Rodent)" Organization: Monash University, Clayton Subject: Re: Where are the insects? > It wouldn't be bamboo, as bamboo is wind-pollinated (no nectar lures), and > the internal fluids are not particularily sugary, even if it were oozing > from damaged areas. Granted the dark honey described originally may not be Bamboo honey, but just because a plant is wind polonated, bees do visit these plants occasionaly and gather pollen from them. It can be quite a useful source of pollen during spring buil up. Adrian. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Sep 1994 17:19:18 AEST+1000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Adrian Graham DENT (Rodent)" Organization: Monash University, Clayton Subject: Re: Yellowjacks? > I have a frequent "mugging" problem with yellowjackets around my hive. [snip] > food source. Strong colonies drive them off, but weak bees and stragglers > beware! This was discussed a while ago on the sci.agri....beekeeping group. A semi solution I posted was to lean a sheet of glass or perspex at an angle on the front of the hive. The bees, coming from inside cn find their way both in and out, but the wasps, hornets, yellow jakcets cant find their way in (at least thats the theory...) Adrian. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Sep 1994 17:30:38 AEST+1000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Adrian Graham DENT (Rodent)" Organization: Monash University, Clayton Subject: Re: Warding off Robber Bees > What I did was hang a rag that was soaked in kerosene in front of, and just > above the entrance, of my hive. > This is supposed to be offensive to outsider or robber bees, but not to the > bees that reside within. > Again, I say, it may be coincidence, but it really worked for me, and I > would like to pass it on. hehehehe....heres an idea.....maybe if you soak all your beekeeping gear in kerosene, all the bees will stay away from you....though I doubt it. It has been my experience that bees will attack anything oily, wheter it is motor oil, vegetable oil, suntan oil or just body oil. I would assume also (though I could be wrong..please remember that) that if the rag is to close to the entrance of the hive, the bees aren't going to come OUT either. Have you compared produciton in a kerosene protected hive with another hive??? I would be interested to know if you are promoting drifting and the like. Adrian. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Sep 1994 09:37:09 +0200 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: TAUPIN@RSOVAX.LPS.U-PSUD.FR Subject: New package for experimental data treatment Great news for experimentalists working with theoreticians and conversely: -----> EXPHER ! Expher is a compiler which generates a Fortran 77 program to perform data reduction, error analysis, and all that kind of things. You give EXPHER a source file where -- you state your unknowns -- you state your mathematical definitions -- you describe what are your measurements (tens, hundreds, arrays, etc.) -- you describe your expected experimental errors -- you describe what measurements are "expected" owing to your... unknowns An EXPHER generates a Fortran 77 program which answers most questions, giving you the most likely values of your unknowns, their error bars, and the final error matrix. Note that is not limite to linear unknowns of classical least squares, but it can handle sophisticated (but continuous) functions... This takes a few hours to be done, while building the same program from nil is a several months job... Try it. Doc available at anonymous ftp: hprib.lps.u-psud.fr, in directories pub/expher/doc/english and pub/expher/doc/french in the form of PostScript files (*.ps), PCL files (*.lj), TeX files and DVI files. Distribution available in pub/expher/.... where .... may be unxsun (SUNos), unxaix (RS6000/AIX), unxymp(Cray/UNICOS), unx_hp(HP9000/HP_UX) and vaxvms. Generic distribution in pub/expher/master. Freeware but please cite that work in publications. Daniel Taupin: taupin@lps.u-psud.fr ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Sep 1994 07:44:23 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Adam Finkelstein Subject: Re: Hive smell/(AFB smell) In-Reply-To: <199409210657.CAA18280@ipe.cc.vt.edu> from "Adrian Graham DENT" at Sep 21, 94 04:56:40 pm Adrian wrote: >The AFB > smell was described as a "Glue pot" smell. I have no idea what this > smells like, so can anyone enlighten me/us?? Hives w/AFB smell--the odor is reminiscent of dead fish/glue, glue being made from old animal bones... a thick, foul odor. Sometimes the brood may die and this also smells, in fact the two (dead brood and AFB) are hard to tell apart by smell alone, and one should always go through all the diagnostic test before making a disease assessment. Larvae that "ropes" is always the last test I do on a suspect hive, and this has been 100% effective in AFB identification, using all other descriptives as well. A hive that smells "wrong" should always be inspected. I use my sense of smell more than most people, but rely on it _ only_ as an indicator for AFB detection, not as a diagnostic tool. (Remember to clean your hands, hive tool and to discard any twigs or sticks used in testing in a spot away from the bees.) Now about perfume... Adam -- =========================================================================== Adam Finkelstein adamf@hopper.itc.virginia.edu adamf@vtaix.cc.vt.edu =============================================== |Bees To Please| ======= ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Sep 1994 09:26:47 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Aaron Morris Subject: Bamboo sort of thing? The bamboo sort of thing mentioned by Dave Cawley may be Japanese Knotweed, a current topic of discussion on rec.gardens . This bamboo look-alike is the bane of most suburban gardeners, very invasive and next to impossible to irradicate. It grows to about ten feet high and has small white flowers that are currently blooming and attracting many honeybees. I don't know what kind of honey the flowers produce, but I can testify that the bees work the flowers like crazy. This is the only thing positive that I can say about the plant. Aaron Morris - I think, therefore I bee! ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Sep 1994 07:12:49 PDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Adrian Wenner Subject: Re: Yellowjacks? Now that so much has been posted on the NET about yellowjackets, perhaps it might be best to share something I (Adrian Wenner) wrote on the problem (it won't come through too well on e-mail but should be legible): YELLOW JACKET CONTROL Yellow jackets (Vespula spp. - colonial wasps), can pose a severe problem for people when these wasps aggressively seek food. (Remember, though, yellow jackets do pollinate plants, such as squash, and dispose of waste matter and thus are not all bad.) Early in the season meat is preferred; later they focus more on sweets. Normally, they are an annual species, with colonies started in the spring of each year by a single mated and overwintered queen. As the season progresses, nest sizes grow and can contain thousands of individuals by late summer or fall. In mild climates colonies can even overwinter. Effective control measures vary according to the circumstances. 1) At eating areas In a backyard, wasps can be kept under control by diligent use of traps (next section). Public picnic areas, however, have wasps already locked into the readily available food supply (messy previous picnickers). Bring along a fly swatter and eliminate the early arrivals - other wasps are then not recruited. Fortunately, individuals of many yellow jacket species are not aggressive when not near their nest. Wasps do not hesitate to go into soft drink cans or bottles, posing a problem for anyone not paying sufficient attention to their activities before taking another swallow. Neither do they hesitate to ride along on a meat sandwich as it is put into one's mouth. Watch out, also, for wasps attracted to meat covered hands, fingers, or utensils. If one places an effective trap (next section) 20-30 feet upwind from the picnic table, the foraging wasps, when shooed away by picnickers, continue to go upwind past the picnic table and end up in the trap . 2) Remote treatment Yellow jacket bait traps have been used more than a century, with one basic characteristic in design: Wasps will fly into a funnel (sometimes quite small) to get at the bait provided and then cannot get out of the transparent or translucent enclosure that incorporates the funnel. One can buy any variety of ready-made traps with a wide range of effectiveness. The following two companies (among others) have produced successful traps: Seabright Laboratories, 4026 Harlan Street, Emeryville, CA 94608, (800) 284-7363 or (415) 655-3126; Sterling International, Inc., P.O. Box 220, Liberty Lake, WA 99019, (800) 666-6766 [FAX: (509) 928-7313]. These commercial traps can become clogged with yellow jackets in a relatively short time during severe infestations, and then one must remove them. The problem then arises that live wasps may still be inside and pose a threat. In that case, one can place the trap in a freezer or an ice chest, wait until the cold immobilizes them, and then empty the trap. Alternatively, the trap can be placed in a paper or plastic bag just large enough to contain it. One can then spray a very small amount of electronic parts cleaner (e.g., Electric Parts Cleaner, CRC, Warminster, PA 18974; (215) 674-4300; Electric Motor Cleaner, Berryman, Arlington, TX 76011), one that contains 1-1-1 Trichloroethane, into the bag and close tightly for a few minutes. One can also construct a simple and safe trap at virtually no cost - an example follows. Start with a one gallon translucent milk bottle. With a razor blade, cut a couple of small slits downward from one point (three quarter inch across at the bottom), a little more than halfway up the sides. Bend the point so formed inward. Fashion part of a wire coat hanger into a hook at the bottom and thread it through a small hole punctured into the cap so that the hook will be down about halfway to the bottom of the bottle when inserted. Bend the top of the coat hanger piece so that it can be suspended from the lid. Fill the bottle about one-third full of soapy water. Then pierce a small piece of turkey ham, salami, or ham (small enough to go through the bottle opening) with the hook and put the lid, hook, and meat in place in the bottle's neck. Hang the bottle in a tree or bush upwind from the area where wasps are not wanted. You might also dig a hole and place the bottle in the ground so the dowiwind opening is at ground level (wasps often search along the ground for food). If no gallon bottles are available, a one-liter transparent soft drink bottle should suffice. 3) Nest location known (perhaps with more than one entrance) If one knows the location of a ground nesting colony (e.g., Vespula pennsylvanica), the entire colony can be exterminated quite easily by using nothing more than soapy water. Take care, though, because these wasps are highly defensive of their nest, usually allowing one to get no closer than about 10 feet before attacking. Some people prefer to treat the colony at dawn or late evening, when activity at the entrance is less than in mid-day. Fill an adjustable nozzle spray bottle with water, add one level tablespoon of liquid detergent, and shake. Set the spray nozzle on stream, approach from downwind (also from downslope or protected by bushes, if possible), and spray wasps (guards as well as departing and returning individuals) at the nest entrance as fast as possible from a distance of 10-15 feet (practice at a target first to improve aim). Wear full protection, including a beekeeper hat and veil, if possible. Once all activity at the entrance has ceased, pour a bucket of soapy water into the ground through one of the entrances and block all entrances with a shovelful or two of dirt. 4) A take home poison When wasp infestations become severe, you may wish to use stronger measures. To reduce their numbers, one can lace a desired food with poison after yellow jackets become committed to that source of food. With this method, timing and procedure are somewhat critical. Expose marauding wasps to canned cat food, such as a shrimp and tuna mixture. Allow the number of foragers to build up into a "feeding frenzy." Then provide a second dish alongside the first, but one laced with a take home poison. Orthene (20 drops per small can of cat food) or KNOX OUT (trade name for a micro-encapsulated diazinon product; one-half teaspoon per can). Don't attempt to use straight diazinon, or the laced food will be rejected). Adrian M. Wenner Prof. of Natural History, Emeritus Univ. of Calif., Santa Barbara Santa Barbara, CA 93106 wenner@lifesci.ucsb.edu *************************************************************** * Adrian Wenner E-Mail wenner@lifesci.lscf.ucsb.edu * * Department of Biology Office Phone (805) 893-2838 * * University of California Lab Phone (805) 893-2838 * * Santa Barbara, CA 93106 FAX (805) 893-4724 * *************************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Sep 1994 11:46:27 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Dave Green, Eastern Pollinator Newsletter" Subject: Re: Where are the insects? Reply to: Pollinator@aol.com They say that roaches would survive a nuclear winter. At any rate, they are still in plentiful supply here, along with gnats, mosquitoes and fire ants. But I agree, populations of many pollinators are dropping. Right now, in many areas is a good time to get a rough evaluation. Find a patch of goldenrod or aster in full bloom. If you can find a sold patch, say 3x3m, you can get some consistancy from one area to another. Stand still and count for one minute, the members of each species you see. This should be done on a day when conditions are favorable for insect activity. I do it several times and average. I realize this is not very scientific, there are too many variables. But there is a lot of value in just observation, particularly when you compare different areas and different years. Both goldenrod and aster are very high producers of nectar, so, if there are pollinators in the area, they will be drawn to these blooms. I've been watching this type of activity for several years. Three years ago, I made an X across South Carolina, and did a rough survey along those two lines NE to SW and NW to SE. I found that there are "holes," especially on the coastal plain, where there are no honeybees at all (and right now I won't go into the possible reasons). I find this of serious concern, as an environmental problem, but few here seem to care. Bees have an image problem; they aren't lovable enough. Bombus numbers are declining too, although I did not find any areas where they were completely absent. There were a few areas with very high concetrations of solitary bees. Of course these are not always general pollinators: some are more or less adapted to a single food source or season, and are dormant the rest of the year. Interestingly goldenrod will draw a lot of wasps, and sometimes blowflies, that are never seen on any other flower. Perhaps it is the rank odor that draws these scavengers. Goldenrod is so good for honeybees that the resource is not fully utilized. I remember walking between two bee yards that were about a half mile apart, during the peak of bloom. Bees covered the plants within a couple hundred yards of the apiaries, but thinned out rapidly, and in the middle there were virtually no bees. (Upstate NY near Buffalo) Goldenrod is just opening here in SC, so I haven't gotten into it this year. I'll keep you posted. I'd also love to hear from others on this. Northern goldenrod may be finishing up now, but aster should be in full swing. :) News release: The last medfly in California died in a tragic accident last week. Ten million of his buddies came winging in from the Mediterranean to attend the wake. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Sep 1994 12:49:29 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Dave Green, Eastern Pollinator Newsletter" Subject: Re: buying extractors Respond to: Pollinator @aol.com. Jeoffry Young asks about buying an extractor: Unless you are really trying to shed some surplus money (you could send some this way), an extractor is a poor purchase, until you get up over a hundred hives, and I'm not so sure even then. There are many commercial beekeepers who do custom extraction for around 9-10 cents per pound. I'm sure you can find one in your area. It takes a long time for an extractor to pay for itself, especially when compared to taking the supers to someone else, and leaving a couple hours later with buckets of honey. (He'll probably give you credit for the cappings.) Check your local doughnut shop for good (safe for food) buckets. There's a beekeeper version of Murphy's law. "Any honey spill, no matter how small, is enough to cover the whole kitchen floor." And that's not speaking of wax - a prescription for divorce. :) No the nanny didn't drop me on my head. We were poor folks; my mama had to do it. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Sep 1994 09:56:26 PDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jane Beckman Subject: Re: dark honey on fr of goldenro > Sounds like japanese bamboo to me. ... is kin to buckwheat and tastes >like a mild form of it. Anyone know the scientific name? The botanist in me hates things that are called "bamboo" but are nothing even vaguely related, and obviously not even a monocot. Sounds like some sort of escaped ornamental that has a somewhat bamboo-like leaf and look. Jane ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Sep 1994 10:12:13 PDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Dave Pehling Organization: WSU CAHE USER Subject: Re: Where are the insects? In-Reply-To: Message of Tue, 20 Sep 1994 17:31:14 -0500 from Here in NW Washington State we have had a good year for yellowjackets and bald-faced hornets (Dolichovespula maculata). I've received lots of calls in our office - espacially on the hornets. Honeybee numbers are way down due to the recent invasion by Varroa. Other species seem to be holding their own. Cheers, Dave Pehling =========================================== | W.S.U./SNOHOMISH CO. COOPERATIVE EXTENSION | | 600 128TH ST. S.E. | | EVERETT, WA. 98208 U.S.A. | |PHONE - (206)338-2400 | |FAX - (206)338-3994 | |INTERNET CE6431@WSUVM1.CSC.WSU.EDU | ============================================ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Sep 1994 11:32:50 PDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Dave Pehling Organization: WSU CAHE USER Subject: Re: Bamboo sort of thing? In-Reply-To: Message of Wed, 21 Sep 1994 09:26:47 EDT from I think it was Jane who asked for the scientific name of "japanese bamboo in the buckwheat family" ? I suspect it is Japanese Knotweed, A.K.A "Fleece flower", (Polygonum cuspidatum). The young shoots can be peeled and used as rubarb. Best control is obtained with Banvel. Its one of the best late nectar-producers in our area, but very invasive. Cheers, Dave Pehling =========================================== | W.S.U./SNOHOMISH CO. COOPERATIVE EXTENSION | | 600 128TH ST. S.E. | | EVERETT, WA. 98208 U.S.A. | |PHONE - (206)338-2400 | |FAX - (206)338-3994 | |INTERNET CE6431@WSUVM1.CSC.WSU.EDU | ============================================ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Sep 1994 19:49:45 +0100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Malcolm Roe Subject: Re: buying extractors In-Reply-To: <9409211249.tn326679@aol.com> from "Dave Green, Eastern Pollinator Newsletter" at Sep 21, 94 12:49:29 pm Dave Green writes: > Unless you are really trying to shed some surplus money (you could send > some this way), an extractor is a poor purchase, until you get up over a > hundred hives, and I'm not so sure even then. I don't have anywhere near 100 hives and can easily hire an extractor from my beekeeping association but I still wouldn't be without my extractor. It's small, old and cost me 40 pounds ($60). Since it's second hand it's not really depreciating now so I could probably sell it for more or less what I paid for it. It's worth 40 pounds to be able to extract when it's convenient to me (and of course I usually want to extract when everyone else does.) > There's a beekeeper version of Murphy's law. "Any honey spill, no matter > how small, is enough to cover the whole kitchen floor." Honey pours quite silently. It can be spilling on the floor while you're in same the room and you won't hear a thing! > And that's not > speaking of wax - a prescription for divorce. My wife's pet hate is propolis on the bed sheets! I try to get it all off my hands (I assume that's how it's transferred) but some always gets there. By the way, alchol shifts it quite easily. -- Malcolm Roe Phone : +44 442 230000 ext 5104 Crosfield Electronics Ltd Fax : +44 442 232301 Hemel Hempstead, Herts. HP2 7RH, UK E-mail : roe@crosfield.co.uk ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Sep 1994 13:07:43 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: SALAZAR V RODRIGO Subject: Re: HELP In-Reply-To: <9409210225.AA21477@pue.udlap.mx> My name is Rodrigo Salazar and I am a student at the Universidad de las Americas in Puebla, Mexico. Right now I am working on my thesis, the subject of it is "Better ways to export Yucatan`s honey bee to Germany". I will be very thankfull if you send me any information (or bibliography) about the annual rates of Germany`s honey imports and exports during the last five years (in dollars or volume), also if you have information about Germany`s honey percapita consumption, and about Germany`s taxation and law restrictions on honey`s imports. And finally can you send me some bibliography in which I can find information about the best and latest techniques to produce honey? Thank you very much for taking the time to read this, I will really appreciate your help. My login is ri083744 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Sep 1994 16:11:00 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Kerry Clark 784-2225 fax (604) 784 2299" Subject: Re: Quenn losses from formic acid Hello Jean-Pierre I've consulted with a few researchers from Europe with experience over several years, with formic acid treatments. Dr. Ingemar Fries from Sweden has been very helpful. As I've said, the queen rejection problem hasn't been enough to measure in the trials (about 500 colonies over 4 years) or in the cooperating operation I work with (1700 hives treated over 3 years). A good answer to your question about how much queen rejection to expect from formic acid treatment, would start with a discussion about the details of the treatment regime. Different frequencies, and especially dose size and concentration, can be used to get effective control of several mite species. Ingemar says 5 % queen loss from 4 treatments with a commercial source of pre-moistened blotter material, which is labelled as having "14.2 g waterfree formic acid", is a typical expectation. (Since waterfree formic is very expensive, I imagine the plates actually contain some standard dilution ( 85 % perhaps) with the equivalent of the labelled amount. His 1989 paper, "Short Interval Treatments with formic acid for control of varroa .. in cold climates", had 5 of 91 queens lost (all after the first treatment, 3 were found dead), with that sort of treatment. He says losses of queens are avoided with the extended or prolonged-release plates (Kramer). Two other cases from Canada I could mention: ( 30-40 ml 65% liquid applied on absorbent paper on top bars) 10 of 30 queens were lost when hives were split in the middle of a 14 day treatment period. The queens lost were some of the ones being introduced in cages. Not surprising. In a small group of treated hives, 1 queen (marked) was found on the bottom board the day after the first treatment. It was found that there had been 2 queens in the colony. Generally it sounds not serious, but it's worth finding out how to avoid things like the case of 150 queens lost of 500. regards Kerry Clark, Apiculture Specialist B.C. Ministry of Agriculture 1201 103 Ave Dawson Creek B.C. V1G 4J2 CANADA Tel (604) 784-2225 fax (604) 784-2299 INTERNET KCLARK@GALAXY.GOV.BC.CA ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Sep 1994 20:27:04 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jane Power Subject: Re: Wild beehive survival Hello. My local bee inspector told me last year that if the varroa mites and the tracheal mites were not held in check, they would wipe out the native bees. The prediction was that if a major breakthrough was not found the native bees would be wiped out in 5 to 10 years. It's the only time I have heard this. Hope it helps. Jane Power the powerthatbees ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Sep 1994 23:24:01 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jean-Pierre Chapleau <73642.244@COMPUSERVE.COM> Subject: Wild bees and mites Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Allen Dick 546-2588 Subject: Re: Warding off Robber Bees In-Reply-To: <9409211734.AA27867@cuugnet.cuug.ab.ca> If robber bees are a problem, usually here in Alberta, at least, this is a sign of something wrong with a hive, as well as a nectar dearth. We ahve a few of our 1500 hives robbed out each year late in the fall, and consider it a good thing. The hives that are emptied are usually queenless and weak, and the bees rather than being killed seem to drift out or abscond to better hives adjacent. Could be a problem if dideade were rampant, but it isn't and we medicate routinely during dearths anyhow. W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper Rural Route One, Swalwell, Alberta Canada T0M 1Y0 Phone/Fax: 403 546 2588 Email: dicka@CUUG.AB.CA On Tue, 20 Sep 1994, Robert T. Reed wrote: > -- [ From: Robert T. Reed * EMC.Ver #2.0 ] -- > > I have heard frrom an older bee keeper of an old technique of warding off > robber bees, that has worked for me. > > I thought I would pass it on for what ever it is worth. > Maybe it was just coincidence, or this technique really works. > If any one out there has ever heard of this , please add your thoughts to > this notice: > > What I did was hang a rag that was soaked in kerosene in front of, and just > above the entrance, of my hive. > This is supposed to be offensive to outsider or robber bees, but not to the > bees that reside within. > Again, I say, it may be coincidence, but it really worked for me, and I > would like to pass it on. > > Let me know what you think. > > (a new bee keeper) > Bob Reed > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 Sep 1994 03:31:52 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Allen Dick 546-2588 Subject: Re: Where are the insects? In-Reply-To: <9409211735.AA45078@cuugnet.cuug.ab.ca> Things are normal or better in this part of Alberta - best year in the last 15! W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper Rural Route One, Swalwell, Alberta Canada T0M 1Y0 Phone/Fax: 403 546 2588 Email: dicka@CUUG.AB.CA On Tue, 20 Sep 1994, RICHARD E BONNEY wrote: > Greetings > > Have any of you observed a shortage of hymenoptera this year? Here in > western Massachusetts I have seen almost no halictids, and fewer than > usual bumblebees, polistes, and mud daubers, and no yellowjackets except > for a couple of queens in the early season. > > I heard indirectly that an area in southern Indiana has no pollinating > insects. The individual reporting this says that wild tree fruits and > berries were not pollinated and as a result there are no berries or > fruits for migrating birds. > > What are others of you experiencin, and why? > > Dick Bonney > rebon@ent.umass.edu > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 Sep 1994 03:50:15 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Allen Dick 546-2588 Subject: Re: Where are the insects? In-Reply-To: <9409220439.AA15089@cuugnet.cuug.ab.ca> Curious you should mention brown honey. Every so often, here in Central Alberta we get a longer than usual season - we haven't had a frost yet - and we sometimes get a mild brown honey?? in considerable quantities. Or, maybe it's honeydew. The stuff is very nice, but looks less than ideal in our round sections, and of course commands a lower price in drums. We suspected a few years back that it was from aphids on alfalfa, which is blooming wildly around here presently. I'll be sending a sample to the University of Toronto lab for analysis, but seeing as they rely on pollen count, I doubt they will be able to identify it unless it is indeed honey. I wonder where we could get a positive ID on this stuff???? W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper Rural Route One, Swalwell, Alberta Canada T0M 1Y0 Phone/Fax: 403 546 2588 Email: dicka@CUUG.AB.CA On Tue, 20 Sep 1994, Dave D. Cawley wrote: > > From: RICHARD E BONNEY > > Have any of you observed a shortage of hymenoptera this year? Here in > > western Massachusetts I have seen almost no halictids, and fewer than > > usual bumblebees, polistes, and mud daubers, and no yellowjackets except > > for a couple of queens in the early season. > > I've noticed more Bumble bees and yellowjackets this year, but > fewer of other bugs in NE PA. > > While we're trading stuff...I have patches of dark brown honey in > my nice yellow goldenrod, any clue as to what it might be? My "mentor" > mentioned something about there might be some kind of bamboo something or > other in the area. > > ****************************************************************************** ** > Dave D. Cawley | Only the economic organization is capable of setting > University of Scranton | on foot a true political party of labor, and thus > Scranton, Pennsylvania | raise a bulwork against the power of capital. > ddc1@jaguar.uofs.edu | -Karl Marx > ****************************************************************************** ** > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 Sep 1994 08:46:51 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Allen Dick 546-2588 Subject: Re: Warding off Robber Bees (fwd) W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper Rural Route One, Swalwell, Alberta Canada T0M 1Y0 Phone/Fax: 403 546 2588 Email: dicka@CUUG.AB.CA ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Thu, 22 Sep 1994 08:37:42 -0600 (MDT) From: Allen Dick 546-2588 To: Jean-Marie Van Dyck Subject: Re: Warding off Robber Bees > > Could be a problem if dideade were rampant, but it isn't and we > > medicate routinely during dearths anyhow. > > 1/ excuse me but my english is very poor (french speaking) > what do you mean with "dideade" I don't find in my diction.? > > 2/ with which kind of drug do you medicate your bees anyhow ? Sorry. It isn't your English, it's my editing! - I guess the file got corrupted in sending or else I missed a typo. The mystery word is 'disease' and the drug of choice is tetracycline. I like the way you pinpoint your geographical location in your signature file. Many ask questions of the list and leave us guessing where the problem is occurring. The location and season have a large influence on the probable answer. W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper Phone/Fax: 403 546 2588 Email: dicka@CUUG.AB.CA Rural Route One, Swalwell, Alberta Canada T0M 1Y0 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 Sep 1994 12:31:55 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Kenna MacKenzie Subject: Re: Wild beehive survival I think we should be somewhat careful in how we classify 'wild bees'. I think it is better is this is clarified by saying 'wild honey bees' or 'feral honey bees' or something similar. As the mites do not affect other species of bees, there should be no real effect on 'wild bees' in general. Unless, of course, there was some sort of competitive effect by feral honey bee colonies that reduced native bee populations (I don't believe that this has ever been shown to occur). This may be seem silly, but as an pollination biologist who works with both honey bees and native bees, I am sensitive to the fact that most people tend not to recognize the importance of native bees in crop pollination. Kenna MacKenzie, Research Scientist Agriculture Canada, Kentville, Nova Scotia ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 Sep 1994 09:33:00 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Kerry Clark 784-2225 fax (604) 784 2299" Subject: Re: Wild beehive survival There has been a misunderstanding of the "wild" bees term. I have never heard of any evidence that North American native bees (many species of bumblebees and solitary bees ) are at risk from varroa or tracheal mites. As someone has already mentioned, the reduction of unmanaged honey bees may actually benefit native bee species. Honey bees (introduced into North America from their native Europe) which swarm into unmanaged nest sites (hollow trees, wall spaces, etc) are "feral" honey bees and are still targets for those mite parasites which are basically adapted to (and reproduce on) only the honey bees. (Bumblebees and others have their own parasite species, which similarly are not typically a threat to honey bees). Unmanaged honey bees (including those in hives) are a source of reinfestation of neighbouring bee hives, for the first few years after introduction of varroa. Southern British Columbia is in that position now. Treated colonies can become heavily reinfested remarkably quickly. Kerry Clark, Apiculture Specialist B.C. Ministry of Agriculture 1201 103 Ave Dawson Creek B.C. V1G 4J2 CANADA Tel (604) 784-2225 fax (604) 784-2299 INTERNET KCLARK@GALAXY.GOV.BC.CA ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 Sep 1994 09:40:02 PDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jane Beckman Subject: Brown honey The sources of dark honey are going to vary from region to region. Here in California, the usual source is bees working eucalyptus. Unfortunately, this is a VERY STRONG and very dark honey, and less-than-desirable on the market. However, I've picked up eucalyptus honey very cheaply for use in brewing (makes a decent mead), because of this. Eucalyptus honey also seems to be very prone to quick crystalization. Your honey sources are going to vary from ecotone to ecotone, and often what is furnishing a major source for one group of hives is going to be quite different from what honey sources are available to hives a couple valleys over---or at least such is the case here in California, where you can have considerable variation of ecosystems over a fairly short range. Generalizing for state-wide, province-wide, or multi-state-wide areas, such as are discussed here on the bee list, is not generally useful. Jane B. [jane@swdc.stratus.com] ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 Sep 1994 18:58:54 +0200 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jean-Marie Van Dyck Subject: Re: Wild beehive survival On Thu, 22 Sep 1994 12:31:55 Kenna MacKenzie wrote ... > I think we should be somewhat careful in how we classify 'wild bees'. > I think it is better is this is clarified by saying 'wild honey bees' > or 'feral honey bees' or something similar. -- cut -- > This may be seem silly, but as an pollination biologist who works with > both honey bees and native bees, I am sensitive to the fact that most > people tend not to recognize the importance of native bees in crop > pollination. I quite agree about your mind that people is guessing only honeybees are pollinators. They don't know the single (solitary?) bees (a lot of different species) and the colonies of different bumble bees. 3 remarks : 1/ As an European one, seems, it's your own problem with this imported honeybee on the "New World". As your pionners they invaded the whole country. You cannot go back to the equilibrium before this importation. 2/ The honeybees foragers, where they are present, are more numerous than the solitary bees and bumblebees 3/ In Europe we have really the problem of the dead of the wild-feral honeybees. Maybe a resistant line shall appear, but all the beekeepers treatments against the mites, diminish the speed of appearance of this resistant line (we don't see which is resistant and which is not). Cheers Jean-Marie Local blooming informations ... Long. : 4deg 56' E - Lat. : 50deg 30' N - Alt. : 200 m - North sea : 200 km After 2 weeks of november time (wet, wet, wet) ... the sun is there (18dC) ... usual but depressing ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Jean-Marie Van Dyck Fax +32 81 72 42 72 B.P. 102 email : jmvandyck@quick.cc.fundp.ac.be B-5000 NAMUR(Belgium) Medical school - Biochemistry dept ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 Sep 1994 09:52:00 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Kerry Clark 784-2225 fax (604) 784 2299" Subject: Re: Where are the insects? British Columbia has generally had a good year for bees. In some areas wasps have done very well, too. I've seen a recent report that wasps have consumed 30 % of a commercial grape crop (there was an abundance of caterpillars in early summer, and weather conditions caused some of the grapes to split). In my northern area, wasps have been patchy and generally hardly noticeable until the last 3 weeks. I don't know of any analysis finding a relationship between wasp populations and their food source, but I would expect it. Kerry Clark, Apiculture Specialist B.C. Ministry of Agriculture 1201 103 Ave Dawson Creek B.C. V1G 4J2 CANADA Tel (604) 784-2225 fax (604) 784-2299 INTERNET KCLARK@GALAXY.GOV.BC.CA ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 Sep 1994 16:09:25 EDT Reply-To: John Buckman Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: John Buckman Subject: LISTSERV list information home page I've set up a World Wide Web home page for LISTSERV lists. It features handy "reference" pages with lists grouped along certain topics, as well as a host of other information, such as how to join, the # of members, whether the archives are open, etc. I'm posting this announcement here because the www site has a page for Biology & Chemistry. Its URL is "http://www.clark.net/pub/listserv/listserv.html" Use Mosaic, Lynx, WWW, Cello, etc. to view it. LISTSERV lists for the following topics are represented: Agriculture, Anthropology, Apple Computer, Art, Biology & Chemistry, Business, Computers, Curricula, Database, Ecology, Education, Food, Graphics, History, IBM, Internet & Bitnet, Law, Library, Literature & Writing, Mathematics, Medicine, Music, PC Software, Physics, Psychology & Philosophy, Religion, Science, Teaching Institutions, Technology, Unix, and VMS & VM. Here is what a typical entry looks like: > Group name: FOODWINE > Description: Discussion List for Food and Wine > Members: 444 > Archive searching: for members only > Who can join: anyone > Country: USA > Site: Central Michigan University, Mt. Pleasant, MI 48859 > Computerized administrator: listserv@cmuvm.csv.cmich.edu > Human administrator: foodwine-request@cmuvm.csv.cmich.edu > To send mail to the group write to: foodwine@cmuvm.csv.cmich.edu Write to me if you'd like more information. John ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 Sep 1994 13:57:38 PDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jane Beckman Subject: Re: Wild beehive survival One thing I have not seen mentioned anywhere is the original origin of both tracheal and varroa mites. I gather they are just as much of a problem in Europe as here in America---but where did they come from? What was the original source of infestation? I am also hearing that tracheal mites can infest wild (non-honeybee) bee populations, as well. Is this true? Jane B. [jane@swdc.stratus.com] ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 Sep 1994 18:16:56 -0600 Reply-To: Allen Dick 546-2588 Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Allen Dick 546-2588 Subject: Re: Hive smell/(AFB smell) In-Reply-To: <9409221532.AA49155@cuugnet.cuug.ab.ca> > Sometimes the brood may die and this also smells, in fact the two (dead > brood and AFB) are hard to tell apart by smell alone, and one should always > go through all the diagnostic test before making a disease assessment. > A hive that smells "wrong" should always be inspected. I use my sense of > smell more than most people, but rely on it _ only_ as an indicator for AFB > detection, not as a diagnostic tool. > (Remember to clean your hands, hive tool and to discard any twigs > or sticks used in testing in a spot away from the bees.) With all due respect, I'd like to differ on the question of smell. I know smell is a personal thing, and widely variable between individuals, but for me smell is the most reliable test for AFB, short of a lab test. When I was an inspector, my nose was my best tool. The smell is unique and unmistakable to me and I had only to walk into a honey house or storage area to know if I was going to be wasting my time carefully examining frames. In my everyday work with my bees, I have only to open a hive and sniff to know if there is any significant breakdown. Unfortunately, once my nose has found it, it is some time again before I stop smelling it, so it is fortunate that there is very little in my outfit of 1500 hives, because I couldn't detect the next hive very well after my nose has been 'triggered' :) If I have a box with some scale on my truck, I am hit by it every time I walk within ten feet or so of it. The nose, together with a little knowledge of the diseases that mimic AFB can come pretty close to 100 accuracy. The glue-like tenacity of AFB scales, combined with the smell are an AFB trademark. Perhaps there are other diseases that have both, but I have not encountered them in over 20 years of commercial beekeeping. This having been said, AFB is not in this part of the world, at least, a serious problem requiring strict hygiene. We have a short, distinct flow season and are able to medicate with tetracycline most of the year. Bees also have considerable resistance. When there is a breakdown, it is just that. The bees are unable to control the disease and it gets away on them. It then avalanches and results in the familiar symptoms of scale and colony decline. The bees are mostly vulnerable during the early season when the queen is expanding her brood pattern. After the brood nest reaches maximum size, and all cells in the pattern have raised one healthy cycle of brood, the chances of breakdown without heavy innoculation with spores is unlikely. A poor season or a late season dearth can however cause fall breakdown, because the bees are required to use stores, and to empty cells which may have scale. Additionally, bees prosper and are immune to many problems in the presence of stong flows. Well fed bees, medicated occasionally, can withstand AFB quite well, and can even clean up quite a bit of scale, although I hesitate to recommend inserting scale into a colony to anyone except a very experienced beekeeper. That's my 2 cents - for what it's worth. W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper Rural Route One, Swalwell, Alberta Canada T0M 1Y0 Phone/Fax: 403 546 2588 Email: dicka@CUUG.AB.CA ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 23 Sep 1994 07:44:49 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ben August Subject: observation hive I just got an "Observation Hive" that holds two 8" frames, and I had a few questions regarding its use. Does one simply "borrow" a couple of frames from an existing hive and place them in the observation hive for a short time? Should the queen be included on these frames, and if so, how long can I leave the hive that the frames were borrowed from go without the queen? bkaugust@facstaff.wisc.edu ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 23 Sep 1994 10:34:05 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Dave Green, Eastern Pollinator Newsletter" Subject: observation hives Re: Bkaugust's query on observation hives. I'd suggest you wait until spring. It is almost impossible to keep one alive through the winter in the north. We've done it here in South Carolina but it is touch and go whenever it gets real cold. The bees can't cluster, so they have to have a blanket. If you heat them very much, they will try to fly out and will die outside. Observation hives are fantastic learning tools. Once you set up, you won't get near as much other work done for a while. They require close maintanance, as the colony is not large enough to maintain itself and requires almost constant feeding. On the other hand, in a real honeyflow, they will plug up and want to swarm, as there is no surplus storage space. Except for feeding, our hive here is pretty much allowed to do as it wills. It has had three brief flows and swarmed three times this summer, successfully requeening itself each time. Recently it suffered a pesticide hit from an unknown source, probably mosquito spraying, and about a quarter of the bees died. Interestingly almost no evidence was visible at the entrance. The bees did not clean up the dead, and maggots were beginning to work, so I added about a half pound of bees at the entrance. Then they began cleaning up the dead, and had it done in about three days. When they were hit, they balled the queen for three days, and I didn't think she would survive. She did, but she didn't act normal for a week, and it took about a week and a half before she resumed laying. I have video of this. So you see what an informational tool an observation hive can be. If you place two frames of brood with a few eggs and no queen, into your hive, you will get to watch the queen rearing process in action. However, such a small hive may not raise a very good queen, and it is easy to chill her and lose her entirely, because of heat loss in such an unnatural shape. At best, the hive will dwindle, during the queen rearing process, so you probably will need to add a half pound of bees, about midway in the project. Make sure their bellies are full of syrup and add them at the entrance; also feed the hive heavily at that time; they will be accepted. With all these dificulties, you may wish to give them the established queen from your mother hive, and either let it requeen itself (it should make a good one), or give it a queen. (Replace the brood frames you take with good comb and they'll soon have brood again. Leave the spaces empty and you'll have a mess to clean up.) In the north, I had problems with queenlessness and chilled brood, even in the summer. I'd advise covering them at night, if it is going to be cool, and add workers, if they become weak. When you take your frames of bees and brood to make up the hive, be sure they come from at least a mile, or better two, from the site, to prevent the older bees from flying back to the home hive. Of course the frames should be well covered with adults to begin with, and should have plenty of sealed brood. Watch them closely: anytime they don't have any capped honey or syrup, they are only a couple days from starvation, if they can't get out to get nectar. So increase feeding until you see some capped syrup. Have fun and learn a lot! ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 23 Sep 1994 07:45:13 PDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Adrian Wenner Subject: Re: Wild beehive survival Jean-Marie wrote: >3/ In Europe we have really the problem of the dead of the wild-feral > honeybees. Maybe a resistant line shall appear, but all the > beekeepers treatments against the mites, diminish the speed of > appearance of this resistant line (we don't see which is resistant > and which is not). When all beekeepers treat infested colonies with one miticide or another, the net result will most likely be better strains of mites, a phenomenon pointed out very lucidly in chapter 1 of Paul DeBach's book, BIOLOGICAL CONTROL BY NATURAL ENEMIES (1974, Cambridge University Press). Feral honey bee colonies, by contrast, will not be treated with miticides and almost all will perish. The real hope for the future of beekeeping is for all of us to locate and monitor the health of feral colonies, particularly those not likely to be recently emitted from commercial colonies. Eventually those colonies can provide the breeding stock necessary for development of resistant strains. Adrian *************************************************************** * Adrian Wenner E-Mail wenner@lifesci.lscf.ucsb.edu * * Department of Biology Office Phone (805) 893-2838 * * University of California Lab Phone (805) 893-2838 * * Santa Barbara, CA 93106 FAX (805) 893-4724 * *************************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 23 Sep 1994 07:52:20 PDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Adrian Wenner Subject: Re: Warding off Robber Bees (fwd) >W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper >Rural Route One, Swalwell, Alberta Canada T0M 1Y0 >Phone/Fax: 403 546 2588 Email: dicka@CUUG.AB.CA > >---------- Forwarded message ---------- >Date: Thu, 22 Sep 1994 08:37:42 -0600 (MDT) >From: Allen Dick 546-2588 >To: Jean-Marie Van Dyck >Subject: Re: Warding off Robber Bees > We used a technique for controlling robbing behavior in Northern California that worked very well. When we entered a yard and knew that robbing was likely to occur, we went around to all the colonies and removed their lids, leaning them alongside the hive. That put all of the colonies on the defensive, rather than on the offensive, and we could work without concern. Neither did we encounter undue hostility on the part of colonies -- perhaps they were more on the lookout for robbers than for us. Adrian *************************************************************** * Adrian Wenner E-Mail wenner@lifesci.lscf.ucsb.edu * * Department of Biology Office Phone (805) 893-2838 * * University of California Lab Phone (805) 893-2838 * * Santa Barbara, CA 93106 FAX (805) 893-4724 * *************************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 23 Sep 1994 14:44:33 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Dave Green, Eastern Pollinator Newsletter" Subject: Re: Wild beehive sur... Respond to pollinator I collected three swarms this season, that I believed to have originated from stock that was never treated for varroa, or was wild for several generations at least. I put these in a beeyard close to home and did not treat them with apistan. Two have died; the third looks good so far. If they go till spring, I'll be looking at them real hard. We have a local beekeeper who has been in a nursing home for about four years and of his 50 or so hives two are still alive. I've been trying to talk him into selling them to me, but so far, no luck. The bees are as black as any stock I've seen. I don't think they are carniolan, but they don't act as defensive as many of the black wild or german bees that we sometimes see. I agree that we should be closely monitoring wild stock. We have to treat commercial bees, or go out of business. But that doesn't stop us from testing out the few wild strains we can still find. Reply: Pollinator @aol.com. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 23 Sep 1994 13:25:11 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Allen Dick 546-2588 Subject: Re: Brown honey In-Reply-To: <9409230723.AA28059@cuugnet.cuug.ab.ca> This may be true, however posing the question in a wide forum may lead to insights and assistance in solving the problem which is a recurring one, particularly inasmuch as there are participants from Europe, where floral source is considered a much more serious and interesting matter than in North America. In the case of the brown honey question, perhaps someone on the list can suggest a lab that can identify honey from samples by methods other than pollen analysis which is a flawed technique - especially where the honey comes primarily from a flower which is not a pollen source, such as alfalfa. I know that some adulterations can be identified, can floral source? W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper Rural Route One, Swalwell, Alberta Canada T0M 1Y0 Phone/Fax: 403 546 2588 Email: dicka@CUUG.AB.CA On Thu, 22 Sep 1994, Jane Beckman wrote: > The sources of dark honey are going to vary from region to region. Here in > California, the usual source is bees working eucalyptus. Unfortunately, > this is a VERY STRONG and very dark honey, and less-than-desirable on the > market. However, I've picked up eucalyptus honey very cheaply for use in > brewing (makes a decent mead), because of this. Eucalyptus honey also seems > to be very prone to quick crystalization. > > Your honey sources are going to vary from ecotone to ecotone, and often what > is furnishing a major source for one group of hives is going to be quite > different from what honey sources are available to hives a couple valleys > over---or at least such is the case here in California, where you can have > considerable variation of ecosystems over a fairly short range. > > Generalizing for state-wide, province-wide, or multi-state-wide areas, such > as are discussed here on the bee list, is not generally useful. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 23 Sep 1994 16:11:12 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ron Rynders Subject: Re: Wild beehive sur... In-Reply-To: <9409231358.aa19171@cc.dordt.edu> from "Dave Green, Eastern Pollinator Newsletter" at Sep 23, 94 02:44:33 pm I tried earlier today to send to Pollinator@aol.com. and it failed. I wanted to ask your advice on a see-through display hive, since I wonder if I can put it inside my house. (sealed, of course) But my message didn't go through. Forgive me for replying on the network, but could you please email me on the signature below so I can learn some facts or purchase the video? THnaks > > Respond to pollinator > > I collected three swarms this season, that I believed to have originated > from stock that was never treated for varroa, or was wild for several > generations at least. I put these in a beeyard close to home and did not > treat them with apistan. Two have died; the third looks good so far. If they > go till spring, I'll be looking at them real hard. > We have a local beekeeper who has been in a nursing home for about four > years and of his 50 or so hives two are still alive. I've been trying to talk > him into selling them to me, but so far, no luck. The bees are as black as > any stock I've seen. I don't think they are carniolan, but they don't act as > defensive as many of the black wild or german bees that we sometimes see. > I agree that we should be closely monitoring wild stock. We have to treat > commercial bees, or go out of business. But that doesn't stop us from testing > out the few wild strains we can still find. > > Reply: Pollinator @aol.com. ******************************************************************************* Ron Rynders phone 1-712-722-6078 Dordt College fax 1-712-722-6416 498 4th Ave NE e-mail ron@dordt.edu Sioux Center, IA 51250 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 24 Sep 1994 01:38:00 GMT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: ANDY NACHBAUR Organization: Wild Bee's BBS 209-826-8107 Subject: Re: Warding off Robber Be Subject: Re: Warding off Robber Be to: BEE-L%ALBNYVM1.BITNET@UBVM.cc.buffalo.edu >Date: Thu, 22 Sep 1994 08:37:42 -0600 (MDT) >From: Allen Dick 546-2588 >To: Jean-Marie Van Dyck >Subject: Re: Warding off Robber Bees We used a technique for controlling robbing behavior in Northern California that worked very well. When we entered a yard and knew that robbing was likely to occur, we went around to all the colonies and removed their lids, leaning them alongside the hive. That put all of the colonies on the defensive, rather than on the offensive, and we could work without concern. Neither did we encounter undue hostility on the part of colonies -- perhaps they were more on the lookout for robbers than for us. Adrian In the days long gone, here in central California, when we extracted honey in the bee yards with a portable extractor bult on the back of a old Morland truck, and good crops started at a "case" or two per hive. (a case was a wooden R/R shipping box that held 2-5 gal cans). To prevent loss from robbing we would pull all the tops off the beehives soon as we entered the bee yard. If robbing got out of control, (bees killing bees), we used burlap sacks under the tops arranged so some hung over the edge and would flap in a breeze. If all else failed we would paint around the top edge of the hives with creosote. We would also, at rare times shovel dirt on the entrance to keep robbers out. We also used lots of smoke, and used old fish net for fuel. Fish net was made of cotton in those days and was oiled and make great clouds of cool smoke, I have never found anything to replace it, the closest would be press sack from a wax rendering plant. I am sure the smoke you use as a boy, like the honey you eat, becomes implanted on your brain as the best...I have a bit of fish net set aside and if I need to feel real mellow I take it out with me and light it up...it really is kind of magic and takes me back to better times when a beekeepers main problem was finding enough equipment to hive a few late swarms. This was the good old days when chicken feed came in nice printed cotton flower sacks. The woman would sew these sacks into what we called a "fly", and we used them to cover up any equipment or supers of honey on the truck if robbing became a problem. They were made over size and being light weight would also flap in the breeze, and this movement seemed to confuse the bees and limit robbing. I don't remember that we ever lost a hive to robbing, I am sure we did, but it was not a problem we lost more to the combs melting down honey and all then to robbing. I was only a swamper or beekeepers louse, so it was sometimes my job to travel back out to the yards after dinner to check if the robbing had stopped, and pick up the sacks and open any hives. Oops my smoker fuel has burned out, ttul Andy- ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 24 Sep 1994 08:37:40 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Allen Dick 546-2588 Subject: Re: observation hives In-Reply-To: <9409240835.AA14282@cuugnet.cuug.ab.ca> Thanks for the excellent post on observation hives for honeybees. Several comments brought to mind a question that has bothered me for years, and a very useful, but little mentioned fact. First the question: A few years ago we used to make spring splits by simply ensuring that both of two Langstroth brood chambers had young brood and eggs, and then we would place two new floors side by side directly in front of the original stand and put one of the boxes on each, add a lid, and go away. Bees would divide equally between the two stands, a queen would be reared, and we would add another BC to each and super normally. Over 85% of the time a new queen would appear in 21 days in the half with the new queen. It would usually more than make up for lost time and overtake the half with the original queen by honey flow in July. On describing the process to other commercial beekeepers, we found they were horrified and that they did not believe that an 'emergency' queen would be of good quality. Their explanations were somewhat less that convincing though. I know that such well respected beekeepers as Mraz have used this stimulus for queen rearing in their systems, and the only hypothesis I can advance for possible poorer quality of emergency queens follows: When an emergency arises and a colony finds itself queenless, assuming it has eggs on hand, it usually takes about three full days to start building cells. It can select from newly hatched eggs (preferable) or young larvae up to the sealing stage. Or perhaps some of each. In our queenrearing experience, we have observed that cells raised from older larvae emerge earlier than those from the youngest. I assume, perhaps incorrectly, that the first queen out will dominate usually. From our reading and lectures by eminent authorities, we are told that the older the larva at time of grafting, the poorer the queen due to a tendency to be an intercaste of some degree. In our experience, desperate colonies do not always exercise much discrimination in selecting larvae to use for queen cells - sometimes using drone larvae in extreme cases. Moreover, in the case that the colony had only eggs on the verge of hatching at the time of splitting - as sometimes happens, the youngest larva would be three days or so old before queen rearing began. Comments and insights would be much appreciated on this matter. On the matter of bees drifting back and getting lost if moved short distances, experience has shown me that the question is very dependent on season and weather and flow conditions. It is common wisdom that bees can be moved two miles or two feet and nothing in between. This is really a gross oversimplification designed to keep beginners out of trouble. If one is observant and knows bees, it is I completely untrue most of the time. I have read that if bees are confined to the hive for three days they will re-orient and not get lost when released even in the same yard. This is true and, in fact three days is longer than necessary. We find on rainy days where hives have been confined less than 48 hours, we can completely reorganise a yard without any significant drifting! Cool weather or rain provide opportunities to move bees, if you are observant. See if the bees fly back or whether they follow the hive. Flow conditions have a large effect on whether bees find their hives too. During a flow bees will return to their location, rather than follow the hive. But, during a dearth when few bees were flying to forage, I particularly remember picking up a huge hive which I had selected to use as a breeder. I used a hive loader and it was a sunny mid morning in June. Using only light smoke, I watched amazed as the bees that came out - 150 or so - flew right accurately back into the entrance as it moved from its stand to the truck. They stayed with the hive while I drove it home to the queenrearing yard and performed the same trick there. There were virtually no lost bees left in the original yard as I took the time to tie the load. I checked the original stand before I left and saw none. We see this phenomenon in the fall too when we are moving hives into wintering position. W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper Rural Route One, Swalwell, Alberta Canada T0M 1Y0 Phone/Fax: 403 546 2588 Email: dicka@CUUG.AB.CA On Fri, 23 Sep 1994, Dave Green, Eastern Pollinator Newsletter wrote: > If you place two frames of brood with a few eggs and no queen, into your > hive, you will get to watch the queen rearing process in action. However, > such a small hive may not raise a very good queen, and it is easy to chill > her and lose her entirely, because of heat loss in such an unnatural shape. > With all these dificulties, you may wish to give them the established > queen from your mother hive, and either let it requeen itself (it should make > a good one), or give it a queen. (Replace the brood frames you take with good comb and they'll soon have brood again. > When you take your frames of bees and brood to make up the hive, be sure > they come from at least a mile, or better two, from the site, to prevent the > older bees from flying back to the home hive. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 24 Sep 1994 22:01:45 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Allen Dick 546-2588 Subject: Re: Wild beehive sur... In-Reply-To: <9409250247.AA15041@cuugnet.cuug.ab.ca> You can have the observation hive in your house with no problem, except you have to open it from time to time to work on it and bees may fly around a little unless you take it outside to work on it. Be sure to plug the entrance hole to your house so returning bees don't come into your house while you are out working on the hive! W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper Rural Route One, Swalwell, Alberta Canada T0M 1Y0 Phone/Fax: 403 546 2588 Email: dicka@CUUG.AB.CA ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 25 Sep 1994 07:17:54 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Allen Dick 546-2588 Subject: Re: Warding off Robber Bees In-Reply-To: <9409251156.AA22478@cuugnet.cuug.ab.ca> Thanks for the interesting post Andy. We too used to extract in the yards, using an extractor in an old school bus - a 1949 Chev. Worked well. We used a blower, or often bee brushes to pull the frames. Honey went straight into drums. We currently use burlap sacks cut into strips on a bandsaw for fuel. Can lite a smoker in 20 seconds that will burn all day, using a 6 inch square piece of newspaper crumpled up to start. Best fuel we've used was dried corn cobs from Ontario. Used Pine shavings at one time - smelled much nicer than sacks. We went through a period of using corrugated cardboard strips 3 imnches wide rolled up to fit the smoker bore. Worked well, but got to be too much work. Apparently adding a spoonful of ammonium nitrate (34-0-0 fertilizer) on top of the fire will bring the nastiest bees to heel. I'm told laughing gas is the result! The bees recover after a short while, and there should be no toxic byproducts. (Don't try this at home, kids.) I've heard of using robbing screens to allow working on hives in California. I think it was in an old ABC... They are a square frame about four by four by six feet high or so covered with window screen and open at the top. The unit is placed temporarily over hive to be worked. The beekeeper works inside and the bees attempting to rob fly right towards the hive that is teir target and go down the screen or fly back again and again, neglecting the wide open top while bees leaving the hive being worked run right up the screen and out. For what it's worth. W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper Rural Route One, Swalwell, Alberta Canada T0M 1Y0 Phone/Fax: 403 546 2588 Email: dicka@CUUG.AB.CA ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 25 Sep 1994 22:39:25 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jean-Pierre Chapleau <73642.244@COMPUSERVE.COM> Subject: Floral origin of honeys Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Michael Moroney Subject: Re: Warding off Robber Bees In-Reply-To: <199409251316.AA25042@world.std.com> > Apparently adding a spoonful of ammonium nitrate (34-0-0 fertilizer) on > top of the fire will bring the nastiest bees to heel. I'm told laughing > gas is the result! The bees recover after a short while, and there > should be no toxic byproducts. (Don't try this at home, kids.) It's true, but be careful, this also produces nitric oxide (NO2), which is caustic to the lungs. Be careful not to breathe the smoke yourself. Especially if the smoke is reddish. I've seen suggestions to use sodium nitrate or urea fertilizer also, if you don't have ammonium nitrate. -Mike ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 Sep 1994 11:00:54 +0200 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Martin Benoit Subject: Looking for address Hi, Does anybody can give me the address and/or E-mail of Professor DUSTMANN Jost H., Germany. This professor works on honey and/ or propolis and their properties. I only had his name. Tanhs in advance. Benoit MARTIN E-mail : Bmartin@quick.cc.fundp.ac.be ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 Sep 1994 09:02:54 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Kim Flottum Subject: Re: Observation Hive how-to Bee Culture magazine has an excellent, and free, publication on observation hive how-to. It details setting up a hive, managing one during a full season, and many activities you can use during the course of the summer. To obtain this free publication E-mail us here, or write: Observation Hive How-to 623 W Liberty St Medina, OH 44256 E-Mail is: BCULTURE@aol.com The publication is free. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 Sep 1994 09:13:04 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: David_Winkler@NIHCEIB.BITNET Subject: Floral origin of honeys |Date: 9-26-94 9:12am |From: David Winkler:ncieib:nih | To: ¤BEE-L@ALBNYVM1‡:BITNET |Subj: Floral origin of honeys |In-Reply-To: Message from ¤BEE-L@ALBNYVM1‡:BITNET of 9-25-94 ------------------------------------------------------------------ Santford Overton and John Manura used an organic purge and trap system for analysis of 102 volatile organic compounds from a number of honey sources. Ref: American Laboratory, April 94 p 45-52 Their address is Scientific Instrument Services, Inc., 1027 Old York Rd, Ringoes, NJ 08551 Phone 908-788-5550. David Winkler ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 Sep 1994 15:18:55 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Liz Day Subject: hibernaculae When a queen bumblebee digs a hole to stay in, what does she do to keep it - the roof - from caving in on her? I should think sandy soil would be very unstable. In fact, how do *any* digging bees keep their burrows from collapsing? ?? Liz Day Indianapolis, Indiana, USA lday@gluon.phys.ufl.edu ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 Sep 1994 11:58:00 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Kerry Clark 784-2225 fax (604) 784 2299" Subject: Re: Floral origin of honeys Dr Peter Sporns has worked on identification of honeys by means other than pollen analysis (specifically to confirm natural HMF levels in fresh honey, and (maybe) to confirm the excess representation of Canola pollen:... maybe this last one is just my wishful thinking) His address: Dept of Food Science Univ of Alberta Edmonton, Alberta T6G 2P5 (403) 492 0375 Kerry Clark, Apiculture Specialist B.C. Ministry of Agriculture 1201 103 Ave Dawson Creek B.C. V1G 4J2 CANADA Tel (604) 784-2225 fax (604) 784-2299 INTERNET KCLARK@GALAXY.GOV.BC.CA (Note for Allen Dick: My response to your email to me was returned Host Unknown. Is there something I've missed doing? Kerry) ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 Sep 1994 14:51:54 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jerry J Bromenshenk Subject: Re: observation hives In-Reply-To: from "Allen Dick 546-2588" at Sep 24, 94 08:37:40 am As regards the comments that hives can be moved about a yard within 24 hours, not true. A few years ago I had some observation hives that flew out a window and dive-bombed the nearby tennis court. No real problem, the bees were just getting their bearings, but I got complaints. So, I took the observation hives out of the east window on the second floor, moved them several miles away for 2 weeks, then brought them back to the original building and placed them in a 3rd story, west facing window. Well, by noon there were several hundred foragers outside the east window, trying to get in where the hives had been 2 weeks before. Jerry Bromenshenk jjbmail@selway.umt.edu The University of Montana ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 Sep 1994 15:03:04 PDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jane Beckman Subject: Re: Floral origin of honeys >I do not see why a method could not be developped to identify the floral origin >of honeys through the analysis of minerals and other components (the ones >responsible of the flavor). I imagin gaz chromatography could be used. Any >scientific advice on this? Gas chromatography, or even spectrophotometry, seem like they would be ideally suited to such identification. I suspect that this would be more a tool for scientific analysis, though, as the average consumer tends to care more about the color than actual origin. To Average Consumer, honey comes in Clover, Orange Blossom, and Everything Else. People who like "varietal honey" are a very small group, I fear. Jane B. [jane@swdc.stratus.com] ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 27 Sep 1994 10:17:53 +1000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: ADC Administor Subject: Subject: Lighting up a smoker To: BEE-L%ALBNYVM1.BITNET@UBVM.cc.buffalo.edu Date: Tue, 27 Sep 1994 10:17:53 +1000 (EST) From: "Steven Andrews" In-Reply-To: from "Allen Dick 546-2588" at Sep 25, 94 07:17:54 am Organisation: Email Electronics Ltd. Phone: +61 3 728-7416 Operating System: dev R32V3 M88100 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1220 Allen Dick 546-2588 writes: > > We currently use burlap sacks cut into strips on a bandsaw for fuel. Can > lite a smoker in 20 seconds that will burn all day, using a 6 inch square > piece of newspaper crumpled up to start. > > Best fuel we've used was dried corn cobs from Ontario. Used Pine > shavings at one time - smelled much nicer than sacks. We went through a > period of using corrugated cardboard strips 3 imnches wide rolled up to > fit the smoker bore. Worked well, but got to be too much work. > I'm not sure how many different methods there is in lighting up a smoker, (maybe we can make it into a discussion), but the way my dad has always done it is as follows: He would get a hessian sack, (the type you used to buy potatoes in), cut it into a 6 x 3 inch strip, put it in the smoker and light it. It would catch on very quickly. (depending if the sack was dry or not). After it was producing white smoke, he would add either, a eucalypt branch or a cypress branch which would cool the smoke and made it last longer, maybe due to the sap and oils from the branches. He would use it all day without touching it again. Could anyone verify if this is a common technique among apiatrists! Steven. -- Steven Andrews Configuration Manager / Software Engineer Email Electronics 88-94 Cantebury Rd, Kilsyth, Victoria, 3137, AUSTRALIA. Tel : +61 3 728-7416 (Office) +61 3 728-1888 (Reception) E-mail : gemini@dev.ecs.oz.au or jules@dev.ecs.oz.au ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 27 Sep 1994 13:23:11 +1200 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Cliff Van Eaton Subject: Re: Floral origin of honeys -Reply Researchers in New Zealand in the late 1980's used gas chromtographic analysis to identify a range of unifloral honeys - Tan, et al (1989) A chemical approach to the determination of floral sources of New Zealand honeys. Journal of Apicultural Research 28(4): 212-222. The analysis technique is commonly referred to in New Zealand as honey "finger printing", since the pattern of spikes on the chromatograph for any particular honey source is unique to that source. The technique has been well-proved and overcomes a number of problems with other types of honey source analysis (especially pollen content analysis, where the pollen grains of some floral sources have been found to be very under-represented). However, to my knowledge "honey finger printing" has so far not been accepted by major world honey buyers. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 Sep 1994 23:26:38 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jean-Pierre Chapleau <73642.244@COMPUSERVE.COM> Subject: Quality of emergency queens Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Rob Bidleman Subject: Re: Subject: Lighting up a smoker In-Reply-To: <199409270206.AA00806@mail.crl.com> Eucalyptus cooling a fire is not a good idea as any fire fighter can tell you. Even fresh Euc will burn with a vengeance, there must be another reason for it. I can recommend also the dry cobs. Works wonderfully. The reducer I favor is Artemisia. Used by the ancient Egyptians and Tibetans, it can still be found in use by the cliff robbers in Nepal. It seems to calm the bees and produces a rich, slow smoke that seems to linger. It is abundant just about anywhere in the U.S. and Canada. Hessian bags are probably the best I've ever used in combination with Artemisia . The mesh holds the herb suspended as it burns instead of allowing it to smother the spark. ---------------------------------------------===robbee@crl.com===---------- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 27 Sep 1994 10:02:31 CST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Vladimir Ptacek Subject: Re: Warding off Robber Bees To stop robber bees empty and DRY comb can be put close to the hive entrance of the attacked colony. The entrance itself should be a bit reduced stil allowing desired ventilation. The comb MUST NOT contain any drop of honey. A large portion of robber bees, especially those not well informed about the real target, will search for the honey in the pretty smelling but empty comb. After some time they return to the maternal colony and probably inform it that the source was exhausted. The attack ceases than rapidly. This workes well if the robbed colony has some endeavour to defence. Vladimir Ptacek, Brno, Czech Republic (ptacek@sci.muni.cz) ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 27 Sep 1994 07:19:12 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Blair J. Sampson" Subject: Re: hibernaculae In-Reply-To: <9409262157.AA18079@ag.auburn.edu> Bumble bees will dig into loose earth usually under leaf litter ("the roof") in a well sheltered spot, under a tree or the face of a steep hill. Occasionally, to aid herself in excavating a hibernaculum a bumble bee gyne will rapidly vibrate the substrate with her thoracic flight muscles to loosen soil. She literally digs in for the winter. There is no true cavity, just the female surrounded by an inch or so of loose soil. A gyne accumulates alot of non-metabolizing fat reserves that will protect her vulnerable tissues from extreme cold. Snow is also a wonderful insulation, especially in Canada where it remains on the ground. Cheers, Blair Blair Sampson bsampson@ag.auburn.edu ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 27 Sep 1994 17:12:32 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Allen Dick 546-2588 Subject: Re: observation hives In-Reply-To: <9409271837.AA23910@cuugnet.cuug.ab.ca> On Mon, 26 Sep 1994, Jerry J Bromenshenk wrote: > As regards the comments that hives can be moved about a yard within 24 > hours, not true. A few years ago I had some observation hives that flew > out a window and dive-bombed the nearby tennis court. No real problem, > the bees were just getting their bearings, but I got complaints. So, I > took the observation hives out of the east window on the second floor, > moved them several miles away for 2 weeks, then brought them back to the > original building and placed them in a 3rd story, west facing window. > > Well, by noon there were several hundred foragers outside the east > window, trying to get in where the hives had been 2 weeks before. That's really interesting and shows that, as Pooh says, "You never can tell about bees!". I appreciate the feedback and observations. I wonder what your observation shows, though. Does it show that the bees would stay there overnight and die and never find their hive, or does it show that they have a long term memory for interesting/significant places? I beg to argue the latter. This is also borne out by the fact that bait hives usually do not work if placed in a yard just before a swarm issues. They must be in place for some considerable time in advance and preferably have been robbed out a bit by the hive that swarms. We do know that bees will continue to visit locations that have proven interesting in the past. I think it is well documented. You spoke of 'foragers', not lost bees. There are known to be scouts which often are found in areas that do not appear to be economically attractive at the moment. Exactly why bees choose to examine particular things is not always apparent to us. Perhaps these bees serve the same function in the hive as artists, philosophers, poets, and prophets in our societies? My statement indicated that the bees would be able to find their new home again and not be stranded under the described circumstances. I don't believe I ever said 24 hours tho'. Less than 48 in some circumstances was what I was saying. I didn't suggest that they wouldn't exhibit graet interest in their former home. Bees will vary quite widely in their behavior depending on the circumstances. Interpreting the significance of their actions is the real challenge and delight. Even after all these years of intensive work with bees I am still learning how best to co-operate with them to our mutual advantage. Honeybees as we know them are variable in their genetics and each hive has a unique history which determines how it will respond to a stimulus. They often can surprise us and fail to behave as predicted by our rules. Again, thanks for the comment. I hope I answered satisfactorily. W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper Rural Route One, Swalwell, Alberta Canada T0M 1Y0 Phone/Fax: 403 546 2588 Email: dicka@CUUG.AB.CA ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 Sep 1994 11:04:21 +0100 Reply-To: MunnPA@cardiff.ac.uk Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Dr Pamela Munn Subject: Chris Plowright?? I'm trying to contact Chris Plowright, but don't seem to have a complete email address for him - can anyone help? Sorry fo the non-bee question. ************************************************************* * Dr Pamela Munn * * Editor of Bee World, Associate Editor of J. Apic. Res. * ************************************************************* * E.mail : MunnPA@Cardiff.AC.UK | Mail : IBRA * * Phone : (+44) 222 372 409 | 18 North Road * * Fax : (+44) 222 665 522 | Cardiff * * | CF1 3DY * * | UK * *-----------------------------------------------------------* * Please state if your message is for someone else within * * International Bee Research and I will pass it on * ************************************************************* ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 Sep 1994 14:38:12 +0100 Reply-To: MunnPA@cardiff.ac.uk Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Dr Pamela Munn Subject: plowright - got it Many thanks for all your responses - I have a working address now. ************************************************************* * Dr Pamela Munn * * Editor of Bee World, Associate Editor of J. Apic. Res. * ************************************************************* * E.mail : MunnPA@Cardiff.AC.UK | Mail : IBRA * * Phone : (+44) 222 372 409 | 18 North Road * * Fax : (+44) 222 665 522 | Cardiff * * | CF1 3DY * * | UK * *-----------------------------------------------------------* * Please state if your message is for someone else within * * International Bee Research and I will pass it on * ************************************************************* ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 Sep 1994 08:36:45 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Allen Dick 546-2588 Subject: Re: Moving bees around In-Reply-To: More on moving bees without being fancy: I awoke this morning to realise that I had a little more to add about moving bees. Commercial beekeepers often have to move bees during the day and sometimes during a flow. Nighttime is preferrable, of course - or early morning bedore the bees are flying. However moving can be accomplished in broad daylight with little loss. Here's how: First smoke the entire yard lightly and repeatedly until almost all flight stops. Wait until the returning bees are pretty well all back - maybe twenty minutes. Keep smoking the entire yard and the load lightly at the entrances while loading. (lightly means just enough to keep them down - not enough to make them run for their lives). If there is much flight and you will be able to return for it, leave a 'catch' hive. A light, weak split is a good choice. Even a single will do. Place it in about the centre of where the yard stood. Drive away. Of course keeping the bees down on the truck will be a problem if it is hot. Smoke, water and nets or a closed van (with ventillation) will help, but good judgement is essential. This is not recommended for inexperienced beekeepers. Responsibility while moving on the roads is important! I found this following experience interesting: We produce a lot of comb honey which requires daily manipulations at the end of the season. Some of our yards are 50 miles away (we run a 100 mile strip of highway). So I decided to take the last remaining comb hives to the home yard. I'm getting a little old to work all night anymore, so I move in the daytime. In one yard there were 15 comb hives and about 10 extracted honey hives. I wasn't worried about losing bees because, although it was a nice fall afternoon - warm and sunny with a light flow - any lost bees would be happy to move in with remaining neighbours and would be readily accepted. So I followed the procedure above. The interesting case was one hive - a swarm which had made good and which was about twenty feet from the yard. I wondered if I could get away with smatching it away. So I tried as soon as I started loading, intending to replace it with some other less important hive if necessary. Immediately a few bees started to drift back to its former site from the truck where the hive now was located. I was there a half hour or more from that time and looked in on the site regularly as I worked. Bees circled but did not light. When I left, there were no bees on the ground, although there were a few searching for the hive. Out of curiosity, I returned the next day and there was no sign of a clump of lost bees on the ground. I surmise that they had given up and moved in with hives across the yard. For what it's worth. . . W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper Rural Route One, Swalwell, Alberta Canada T0M 1Y0 Phone/Fax: 403 546 2588 Email: dicka@CUUG.AB.CA > On Mon, 26 Sep 1994, Jerry J Bromenshenk wrote: > > > As regards the comments that hives can be moved about a yard within 24 > > hours, not true. A few years ago I had some observation hives that flew ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 Sep 1994 15:10:15 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Allen Dick 546-2588 Subject: Re: observation hives In-Reply-To: <9409271837.AA23910@cuugnet.cuug.ab.ca> On Mon, 26 Sep 1994, Jerry J Bromenshenk wrote: > Well, by noon there were several hundred foragers outside the east > window, trying to get in where the hives had been 2 weeks before. Jerry, I've been thinking more on this. What would be interesting is to know what those bees would have done if you had had another (new) observation hive inside the window on the above foragers' original stand and they could have had access. Would they have joined the new hive there, tried to rob it, or neither of the above. One would have to mark the bees to find out. Fascinating! On a similar note, if a swarm loses its queen, the bees all return to the original (parent) hive. Otherwise they never (so far as we know) go back to visit their old friends. Or do they? :) W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper Rural Route One, Swalwell, Alberta Canada T0M 1Y0 Phone/Fax: 403 546 2588 Email: dicka@CUUG.AB.CA ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 Sep 1994 22:03:55 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Allen Dick 546-2588 Subject: Re: Quality of emergency queens In-Reply-To: <9409281537.AA17752@cuugnet.cuug.ab.ca> On Mon, 26 Sep 1994, Jean-Pierre Chapleau wrote: > problem. Queen from larvae exceding 36 hours old have fewer ovarioles and a > lower laying capability. Do you think there is any real advantage in selecting larvae at 12 hours compared to 36? If not, then one could adjust emergence dates a bit to avoid weekend emergence. Being somewhat unknowledgeable about such things, we always use the youngest available. Is that important? Perhaps we could discuss incubation temperatures at some later time. My measurements don't agree with the published numbers. The books refer to 92F. I measure 95.5F +/- 0.5F. I've heard rumors that some breeders adjust hatching time by controlling temperature. True? False? > Close and continuous observation > of individuals colonies (taking into account the parental relationships) shows > important differences. These differences show up more when observations are > concentrated on specific traits, when quantified objective evaluations are mad e > and when the figures are analysed. > producer with no selection program and/or no progeny testing. That last point > is very important. Raising queens from a good mother from a good lineage doe s > not quarantee that the daughters will be good. An experienced and concienciou s > breeder will test the progeny of his prospective breeders before he puts them > into commercial production. Not all the queens transmit the desirable traits to > their progeny with a high enough degree of reliability. > and colonies headed by queens from selected and tested breeders, the differenc es > will clearly show up... provided the selection has been made essentially on t he > honey harvesting capability and not only on the laying capacity. This sounds like real work! Not only does one have to have enough hives to compare, but he has to manage them to make honey, while carefully measuring results. We have tried to do a bit of this, but a lot of the time I am not sure if it is the queen or the position in the yard, etc. And if it is the queen, is it her age, her upbringing, the particular batch of sperm she is processing at the moment, or is it her own genetics? I must confess to not having the patience to keep the kind of records necessary to come to valid conclusions. But having said this, we have been marking the exceptional honey makers for the past two years and then examining them in the spring for temper, chalkbrood, size, general appearance, etc. If they are exceptional, they have gone to the home yard where we have been breeding from a selection of the best performers and using the rest for bees and brood. Many of our splits are also made there and mate with their drones. We had a great crop this year. Our hives are also getting yellower! We had black and grey bees predominating previously. Perhaps selecting for strong (splittable) hives in April is the cause. We simply haven't had the dedication to evaluate the progeny beyond observing that they are average or better in most regards. We simply are trying to mimic nature by removing - as much as easily manageble - the less successful hives from the active breeding pool and encouraging breeding by fairly large number of the most successful. I'd be interested in understanding (visualising) how you manage to do the measurements. Do you do it once a year - or more often? Do you have a hive numbering system? And how many hives are you evaluating for breeding? Are there some simple tricks and short cuts, or is it just a matter of doing the work? I realise that maybe I'm searching for an easy way out, but we spent big $ to buy 400 queens this spring - for the first time in 5 years - and after all the work, we lost over a third - mostly after they had begun to lay. So I really need one. Introducing mated queens and finding queens in splits is a whole lot more work than just raising cells and sticking them into everything that might need one. Could my feelings on this latter matter have anything to do with the fact that my wife does the grafting; I do the splitting and queen checks? ;-) W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper Rural Route One, Swalwell, Alberta Canada T0M 1Y0 Phone/Fax: 403 546 2588 Email: dicka@CUUG.AB.CA ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 27 Sep 1994 18:29:51 GMT Reply-To: Gordon@apis.demon.co.uk Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Gordon Scott Subject: Re: observation hives In message <9409262358.aa28040@post.demon.co.uk> BEE-L%ALBNYVM1.BITNET@ubvm.cc. buffalo.edu writes: > As regards the comments that hives can be moved about a yard within 24 > hours, not true. A few years ago I had some observation hives that flew > out a window and dive-bombed the nearby tennis court. No real problem, > the bees were just getting their bearings, but I got complaints. So, I > took the observation hives out of the east window on the second floor, > moved them several miles away for 2 weeks, then brought them back to the > original building and placed them in a 3rd story, west facing window. > > Well, by noon there were several hundred foragers outside the east > window, trying to get in where the hives had been 2 weeks before. > > Jerry Bromenshenk > jjbmail@selway.umt.edu > The University of Montana > > Hi Jerry, If any of the following is inappropriate I appologise, I've been on holiday (vacation). I've heard this story before with even longer times (over three weeks). Bees (like most of us) have different length memories for different things and it seems that home is pretty important to them. I have heard it suggested that individual bees never forget their original home so one must wait about six weeks (summer) until the older bees have died. They _do_ learn though, so it may be that if their hive moves a couple of feet they will learn the new place and 'overwrite' their memory of the old place because the two sites are close together and everything else is familiar to them (my hypothesis -- anyone any experience?). Even if they don't, they will normally find the new hive ok because it's nearby and they will want to go somewhere. My guess is that they travel on 'autopilot' the same as we do when we drive to work -- we get there ok but don't remember much about the journey. If I moved home to near where I lived a while ago would I make a mistake like their's whilst on auto? (well, probably not, but I guess you'll follow my thinking) The memory 'rules' they use for forage appear to allow this because bees will visit a place (and a time of day) for forage whilst it yields, but will gradually forget over a week or two when the yield stops. I pretty sure though that this memory is shorter term than the 'home' memory. Regards, -- Gordon Scott Gordon@apis.demon.co.uk 100332,3310 on CompuServe Newsletter Beekeeper@apis.demon.co.uk ditto Beekeeper, Kendo Sandan, sometime sailor. Basingstoke, Hampshire, RG22 5HP, UK Cricket - the English National rain dance. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 29 Sep 1994 16:46:08 GMT Reply-To: Gordon@apis.demon.co.uk Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Gordon Scott Subject: Re: observation hives In message <9409290243.aa11239@post.demon.co.uk> BEE-L%ALBNYVM1.BITNET@ubvm.cc. buffalo.edu writes: > On Mon, 26 Sep 1994, Jerry J Bromenshenk wrote: > > > Well, by noon there were several hundred foragers outside the east > > window, trying to get in where the hives had been 2 weeks before. > > Jerry, I've been thinking more on this. What would be interesting is to > know what those bees would have done if you had had another (new) > observation hive inside the window on the above foragers' original stand > and they could have had access. > > Would they have joined the new hive there, tried to rob it, or neither of > the above. > > One would have to mark the bees to find out. Fascinating! > > On a similar note, if a swarm loses its queen, the bees all return to the > original (parent) hive. Otherwise they never (so far as we know) go back > to visit their old friends. Or do they? :) > > W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper > Rural Route One, Swalwell, Alberta Canada T0M 1Y0 > Phone/Fax: 403 546 2588 Email: dicka@CUUG.AB.CA > Hi, Jerry will probably answer this too. They would go to the new hive, which would accept them provided they bring forage with them. Bees are pretty magnanimous/opportunistic this way. They only fight off 'robbers'. Marking bees to test this is not easy -- you would have to mark an awful lot! In the U.K. we have various strains of bees (I guess you do too). I can do the test using a black strain and a yellow strain and I can then clearly see the results. And I _don't_ end up with dozens of 'queens' :) -- Gordon Scott Gordon@apis.demon.co.uk 100332,3310 on CompuServe Newsletter Beekeeper@apis.demon.co.uk ditto Beekeeper, Kendo Sandan, sometime sailor. Basingstoke, Hampshire, RG22 5HP, UK A truly wise man never plays leapfrog with a Unicorn. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 29 Sep 1994 15:02:22 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jerry J Bromenshenk Subject: Re: Floral origin of honeys In-Reply-To: from "Jane Beckman" at Sep 26, 94 03:03:04 pm The analysis problem is not as simple as it seems. Gas chromatography could look at organic constituents, ICAPS, X-Ray fluoresence, AAS at trace elements (minerals). However, we are talking about a very complex and rich soup, especially if looking at honey and not nectar. Time of year, soils, wet/dry conditions, the mixture of nectars in the honey - all complicate the issue. What I am trying to say is that unless you can find some unique markers the analysis will be costly, the results a huge array of minerals, amino acids, and other constitutents that will vary from sample to sample within the same hive. On the other hand, pollen analysis provides a good indicator of the primary floral source(s). That is not to say it can't be done, but the costs are likely to be prohibitive. Jerry Bromenshenk The University of Montana jjbmail@selway.umt.edu ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 1 Oct 1994 08:22:55 AEST+1000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Adrian Graham DENT (Rodent)" Organization: Monash University, Clayton Subject: Re: buying extractors > Dave Green writes: > > Unless you are really trying to shed some surplus money (you could send > > some this way), an extractor is a poor purchase, until you get up over a > > hundred hives, and I'm not so sure even then. > > I don't have anywhere near 100 hives and can easily hire an extractor > from my beekeeping association but I still wouldn't be without my extractor. > It's small, old and cost me 40 pounds ($60). Since it's second hand it's > not really depreciating now so I could probably sell it for more or less > what I paid for it. It's worth 40 pounds to be able to extract when it's > convenient to me (and of course I usually want to extract when everyone > else does.) I would have to agree with the second statement here. I do not have 100 hives yet (although I hope to in about two years) but it is extremely inconvenient not to be able to extract whenever I need to. My brother and I work our hives together, and we prefer to make extraction a two person process. As we both have lives apart from our bees, it is difficult to co-ordinate so that we have a weekend free at the same time, often we don't know if the weekend is going to be free until a day or two before, so we can suddenly have a free weekend, and not be adble to get hold of an extractor. I would suggest that a four frame extractor is ideal for any more than about 25 hives, and can easily be sold when you get more hives, to someone else with only a few. Adrian Dent. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 1 Oct 1994 08:39:07 AEST+1000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Adrian Graham DENT (Rodent)" Organization: Monash University, Clayton Subject: Re: Subject: Lighting up a smoker > Allen Dick 546-2588 writes: > > > > We currently use burlap sacks cut into strips on a bandsaw for fuel. Can > > lite a smoker in 20 seconds that will burn all day, using a 6 inch square > > piece of newspaper crumpled up to start. [small snip] > I'm not sure how many different methods there is in lighting up a smoker, > (maybe we can make it into a discussion), but the way my dad has always > done it is as follows: > > He would get a hessian sack, (the type you used to buy potatoes in), cut it Which I believe tha americans call burlap...... > into a 6 x 3 inch strip, put it in the smoker and light it. It would [another small snip] > Could anyone verify if this is a common technique among apiatrists! > > Steven. Any apiarist I have met who has been doing it for thirty or fourty years (with the exception of one....) recomend this as their first choice: heshian and something. For some it is heshian and eucalyptus, for some it is heshian an corrugated card, for some it is heshian and pine. When I was just starting out though.....I asked a "more experienced" apiarist for help with something or other...I don't recall what, and I lit up the smoker using sacking. He took all the sacking out and hung it in a fence to burn, so that I wouldn't use it again, and spent half an hour collecting leaves friom the (wet) ground.....all because his father (who had the nerve to say I was a slow learner...) never used heshian....one beekeeper out of the four or five I have asked for help from..... (sorry....I'll get of my soap box now....) Adrian. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 30 Sep 1994 20:34:20 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Joyce Deming Subject: Re: Subject: Lighting up a smoker Out here in the wild west (Colorado) where cows and cow pies are plentiful, we find nothing works better or is cheaper than a nice sun-dried cow patty for smoker fuel. Just crumple a little newspaper in the bottom, add a few chunks of cow pie and away you go! Of course, as every beekeeper knows, the smoker never really gets going until you're in the truck headed for home. That's when it really starts to belch out the smoke! :-) Joyce Deming jdeming@delphi.com