========================================================================= Date: Sat, 1 Apr 1995 07:07:02 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Dave Green, Eastern Pollinator Newsletter" Subject: Feeding bees Dear Bee-L'ers: As you know from previous discussions on the list, we feed whatever we can get the cheapest, and we are always looking for bargains. We've used granulated sugar, brown sugar, confectioners sugar, corn syrup, sucrose syrup, hard peppermint candy, Nestle's Quick, you-name-it. Well, we just had a wreck upstate and we went up and bought a tractor-trailer load of NutraSweet at salvage prices. We've been really tickl ed at the bargain brought about by someone else's misfortune, but then we got to thinking: Will NutraSweet hurt the bees? Anybody with any experience, or would like to comment? Pollinator@aol.com Dave Green PO Box 1215, Hemingway, SC 29554 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 1 Apr 1995 07:13:17 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "William J. Morrison" Subject: Re: Feeding bees Dave, I'm glad that you brought up the subject of Nutrasweet as a feed for bees. I've been using it as bee feed for years and it works great! The odd thing is thatthey only suck it up on APRIL FOOL'S DAY! Bill Morrison wjmorr@ark.ship.edu Newville, PA 174241 U.S.A. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 1 Apr 1995 09:16:04 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Dave Green, Eastern Pollinator Newsletter" Subject: Report from swarmy SC Dear Bee-L'ers: We arrived back from our Florida bees last week to South Carolina, to find swarms galore. The season is about a week early, and I am about a week later than I had wanted to be. Dewberries are in full bloom. For those of you a little farther north, especially if you might get busy and not get back to the bees on a timely basis, now is a good time to stack your deadouts on top of something (Do a post mortem to make sure there's no AFB scale first). We've found eight so far that have been occupied by happy swarms, and we've caught two (not from our bees). I say set the deadouts up, because they will attract swarms much better if they are higher, though sometimes they will even come into low hives too. Right now we are on fast forward. We've been splitting the bees that are swarmy, and so far, have been mostly ahead of them, which gives us lots of cells. I used to avoid using swarm cells, reasoning that that encourages the swarmy trait in bees, but I've seen enough weak bees over the fast few years, that I've decided that bees that are strong enough to swarm are just exactly what I want. Each hive that looks good, but has no swarm cells we pull all but two frames of sealed brood from the brood chamber and raise it above the excluder, making sure the queen is below. I like to see them, but this year, this usually means shaking the bees off the brood, and they'll have to walk up through the excluder. We give the queen some nice empty comb in the center of the brood nest to lay in. This effectively stops swarming for a while, and over the first (deep) super with brood, we place a couple shallows. Those that have swarm cells are busted up for spits. Once they have the idea of swarming, it is almost impossible to stop them. Some hobbyists with lots of time cut out the cells, but you are apt to miss just one, and it's likely to be a little tiny one that makes a lousy queen. So the only practical way to save our livestock from running off into the woods is to help them do what they wanted to do - reproduce. We're just about out of nuc boxes, and are running out of comb, so we are trying an old trick that might be useful to others as well. We have A LOT of old junk deeps (with corners rotted off, etc.) We bust up the swarmy bees into 3-5 nucs. Each nuc is placed along one side of a deep box (2-4 frames). We don't look for queens once cells have formed, just making sure each nuc has at least one cell. Frames with cells are handled gently, and never turned upside down, as the queens can be damaged if their wings are in formation at the time. We place these on pallets with a strip of 15# builders felt on the bottom to keep robbers out. Then we take a piece of felt and put it over the tops of the frames and fold it down along the outside frame. We make sure they have an opening, big enough to get in and out, then staple the paper in place. It's a cheap, quick nuc box. After time enough for mating we sort it out. Mated nucs go into regular hives. Unmated ones or ones with poor-looking queens give us back the comb, bees, pollen and honey, before the wax worms get them. Maybe this will stimulate the idea mills, and someone will come up with an even faster and cheaper way (that's the only way to survive in this marginal business). I'd love to hear from you. The cold February weather made Florida's orange bloom very late, which beekeepers usually like, because it gives the bees time to build up some more. I just talked with a Florida b-kpr since I got back home, and he's afraid it will be a short bloom, as well. Hmmm - we'll see. I have bees in squash, and the grower made a pile of squash until the grove next door began to bloom. Then the bees happily flew over the squash to the oranges, much to the growers consternation. But a few are still doing squash. Pollinator@aol.com Dave Green PO Box 1215, Hemingway, SC 29554 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 1 Apr 1995 08:18:16 -0800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Ken Umbach (kumbach@agency.resource.ca.gov)" Subject: Re: Feeding bees In-Reply-To: <9504011208.AA26309@agency.ceres.ca.gov> NUTRASWEET??? Is there not some danger of the bees then producing artificial honey?! Though come to think of it, there is probably a market for that.... On Sat, 1 Apr 1995, Dave Green, Eastern Pollinator Newsletter wrote: > Well, we just had a wreck upstate and we went up and bought a > tractor-trailer load of NutraSweet at salvage prices. We've been really tickl > ed at the bargain brought about by someone else's misfortune, but then we got > to thinking: Will NutraSweet hurt the bees? Anybody with any experience, or > would like to comment? -- ||| (@ @) Ken Umbach ----------------------------------ooOo-( )-oOoo------ California State Library -- California Research Bureau 900 N Street, Suite 300 -- Sacramento, CA 95814 (916-653-6002) Opinions expressed above are NOT to be considered those of my employer. Frankly, I have my doubts that they are even my own. ---------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 1 Apr 1995 15:08:00 GMT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Andy Nachbaur Organization: Wild Bee's BBS Subject: Feeding bees <>From: "Dave Green, Eastern Pollinator Newsletter" <>Date: Sat, 1 Apr 1995 07:07:02 -0500 <>Subject: Feeding bees <> Well, we just had a wreck upstate and we went up and bought a <>tractor-trailer load of NutraSweet at salvage prices. We've been really tick <>ed at the bargain brought about by someone else's misfortune, but then we got <>to thinking: Will NutraSweet hurt the bees? Anybody with any experience, or <>would like to comment? Hello Dave, I would really want to check with the manufacture on this before I did anything.. The chemicals involved are dangerous to humans in large doses. I do not recall seeing any reported deaths but have not check on it. There is no substance that some sick person has not consumed in gross amounts to end it all. It is may guess that if you mixed it with sugar syrup you could get the bees to take it, but I would be bee certain it would do them NO good at all as it does nothing more then give us the illusion of tasting sweet when used in very small quantities. The chemical ingredients themselves are bitter to the taste, and dangerous to ingest, if you could get them down without tossing your lunch. BTW, if there was any heat involved with the wreck with the chemical involved you could have some other problems. ttul Andy- ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 1 Apr 1995 10:02:22 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Subject: Re: Feeding bees In-Reply-To: <9504011658.AA27534@cuugnet.cuug.ab.ca> On Sat, 1 Apr 1995, Andy Nachbaur wrote: > <>From: "Dave Green, Eastern Pollinator Newsletter" > <>Date: Sat, 1 Apr 1995 07:07:02 -0500 > <>Subject: Feeding bees > > <> Well, we just had a wreck upstate and we went up and bought a > <>tractor-trailer load of NutraSweet at salvage prices. We've been really tick > <>ed at the bargain brought about by someone else's misfortune, but then we got > <>to thinking: Will NutraSweet hurt the bees? Anybody with any experience, or > <>would like to comment? We had an experience (on April 1 last year) where we found the bees in our hives seemed mighty thin. We investigated and found the bees had been visiting the A & W nearby and consuming the *diet* Root beer (contains apartame) thrown away in outside garbage containers. It was pathetic. The bees were so thin you could see their ribs sticking out! ;-) Allen W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper VE6CFK Rural Route One Swalwell Alberta Canada T0M 1Y0 Email: dicka@cuug.ab.ca or allend@internode.net Virtual Art Gallery: http://www.cuug.ab.ca:8001/~dicka __________________Why not drop by?____________________ ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 1 Apr 1995 12:10:19 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Gerard Worrell Subject: Re: Feeding bees In-Reply-To: <199504011209.HAA10398@cbl.umd.edu> On Sat, 1 Apr 1995, Dave Green, Eastern Pollinator Newsletter wrote: > Dear Bee-L'ers: > > As you know from previous discussions on the list, we feed whatever we > can get the cheapest, and we are always looking for bargains. > Well, we just had a wreck upstate and we went up and bought a > tractor-trailer load of NutraSweet at salvage prices. We've been really tickl > ed at the bargain brought about by someone else's misfortune, but then we got > to thinking: Will NutraSweet hurt the bees? Anybody with any experience, or > would like to comment? > > Pollinator@aol.com > Dave Green PO Box 1215, Hemingway, SC 29554 > I would be very concerned with feeding an artificial sweetener to bees. The purpose of our feeding is to supply carbohydrates- namely calories, in order for them to grow. Pollen provides most of the protein and other nutrients. If you look at artificial sweeteners they are extremely low in calories. Why not just feed them water. they will get as much benefit! Jerry Worrell ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 1 Apr 1995 10:06:37 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Subject: Andy's database I put the text part of the National Honey Board Database at I had some problems getting the zip to d/l from my page, so I just put the file there for now. People can read it and search it using the 'find' feature on their brouser. Feedback would be appreciated. W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper VE6CFK Rural Route One Swalwell Alberta Canada T0M 1Y0 Email: dicka@cuug.ab.ca or allend@internode.net Virtual Art Gallery: http://www.cuug.ab.ca:8001/~dicka __________________Why not drop by?____________________ ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 1 Apr 1995 17:33:06 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: KEVMILLICAN@DELPHI.COM Subject: B.Mail Magazine A friend of mine is very interested in seeing the contents of your electronic magazine - could you send me a copy or a selection of pages so that he can see the type of content before investing cash and time in a modem and account etc. ? Thanks & Regards Kevin Millican ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 1 Apr 1995 18:59:55 +0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: David Bernard Subject: Re: Feeding bees >Dear Bee-L'ers: > > As you know from previous discussions on the list, we feed whatever we >can get the cheapest, and we are always looking for bargains. We've used >granulated sugar, brown sugar, confectioners sugar, corn syrup, sucrose >syrup, hard peppermint candy, Nestle's Quick, you-name-it. > > Well, we just had a wreck upstate and we went up and bought a >tractor-trailer load of NutraSweet at salvage prices. We've been really tickl >ed at the bargain brought about by someone else's misfortune, but then we got >to thinking: Will NutraSweet hurt the bees? Anybody with any experience, or >would like to comment? > >Pollinator@aol.com >Dave Green PO Box 1215, Hemingway, SC 29554 Nutrasweet is a tripeptide (made of 3 amino acids). It was designed to bind to your tastebuds and think that you are eating something sweet. It is not a carbohydrate (like sugar) and will not suffice as a supplemental feed for your bees. It is probably equivalent to feeding them water! David Bernard email address: dbernard@nchgr.nih.gov NIH, NCHGR BLD 49, Room 4A83 (301) 496-3798 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 1 Apr 1995 23:59:00 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Jack C. Turner" Subject: Re: nutra sweet In-Reply-To: <199503312309.SAA65873@pen1.pen.k12.va.us>; from "ga14" at Mar 31, 95 6:07 pm I've feed nutra sweet for years - amassed a fortune from low cal honey. Jack Turner ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 1 Apr 1995 23:25:55 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Eric Abell Subject: Re: Report from swarmy SC In-Reply-To: <9504011405.AA80651@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca> On Sat, 1 Apr 1995, Dave Green, Eastern Pollinator Newsletter wrote: > Dear Bee-L'ers: > > We arrived back from our Florida bees last week to South Carolina, to find > swarms galore. The season is about a week early, and I am about a week later > than I had wanted to be. Dewberries are in full bloom. > > For those of you a little farther north, especially if you might get busy > and not get back to the bees on a timely basis, now is a good time to stack > your deadouts on top of something (Do a post mortem to make sure there's no > AFB scale first). > > We've found eight so far that have been occupied by happy swarms, and we've > caught two (not from our bees). I say set the deadouts up, because they > will attract swarms much better if they are higher, though sometimes they > will even come into low hives too. > > Right now we are on fast forward. We've been splitting the bees that are > swarmy, and so far, have been mostly ahead of them, which gives us lots of > cells. I used to avoid using swarm cells, reasoning that that encourages the > swarmy trait in bees, but I've seen enough weak bees over the fast few years, > that I've decided that bees that are strong enough to swarm are just exactly > what I want. > > Each hive that looks good, but has no swarm cells we pull all but two > frames of sealed brood from the brood chamber and raise it above the > excluder, making sure the queen is below. I like to see them, but this year, > this usually means shaking the bees off the brood, and they'll have to walk > up through the excluder. > > We give the queen some nice empty comb in the center of the brood nest to > lay in. This effectively stops swarming for a while, and over the first > (deep) super with brood, we place a couple shallows. > > Those that have swarm cells are busted up for spits. Once they have the > idea of swarming, it is almost impossible to stop them. Some hobbyists with > lots of time cut out the cells, but you are apt to miss just one, and it's > likely to be a little tiny one that makes a lousy queen. > > So the only practical way to save our livestock from running off into the > woods is to help them do what they wanted to do - reproduce. > > We're just about out of nuc boxes, and are running out of comb, so we are > trying an old trick that might be useful to others as well. We have A LOT of > old junk deeps (with corners rotted off, etc.) We bust up the swarmy bees > into 3-5 nucs. Each nuc is placed along one side of a deep box (2-4 frames). > We don't look for queens once cells have formed, just making sure each nuc > has at least one cell. Frames with cells are handled gently, and never > turned upside down, as the queens can be damaged if their wings are in > formation at the time. > We've found eight so far that have been occupied by happy swarms, and we've > caught two (not from our bees). I say set the deadouts up, because they > will attract swarms much better if they are higher, though sometimes they > will even come into low hives too. > > Right now we are on fast forward. We've been splitting the bees that are > swarmy, and so far, have been mostly ahead of them, which gives us lots of > cells. I used to avoid using swarm cells, reasoning that that encourages the > swarmy trait in bees, but I've seen enough weak bees over the fast few years, > that I've decided that bees that are strong enough to swarm are just exactly > what I want. > > Each hive that looks good, but has no swarm cells we pull all but two > frames of sealed brood from the brood chamber and raise it above the > excluder, making sure the queen is below. I like to see them, but this year, > this usually means shaking the bees off the brood, and they'll have to walk > up through the excluder. > > We give the queen some nice empty comb in the center of the brood nest to > lay in. This effectively stops swarming for a while, and over the first > (deep) super with brood, we place a couple shallows. > > Those that have swarm cells are busted up for spits. Once they have the > idea of swarming, it is almost impossible to stop them. Some hobbyists with > lots of time cut out the cells, but you are apt to miss just one, and it's > likely to be a little tiny one that makes a lousy queen. > > So the only practical way to save our livestock from running off into the > woods is to help them do what they wanted to do - reproduce. > > We're just about out of nuc boxes, and are running out of comb, so we are > trying an old trick that might be useful to others as well. We have A LOT of > old junk deeps (with corners rotted off, etc.) We bust up the swarmy bees > into 3-5 nucs. Each nuc is placed along one side of a deep box (2-4 frames). > We don't look for queens once cells have formed, just making sure each nuc > has at least one cell. Frames with cells are handled gently, and never > turned upside down, as the queens can be damaged if their wings are in > formation at the time. > We've found eight so far that have been occupied by happy swarms, and we've > caught two (not from our bees). I say set the deadouts up, because they > will attract swarms much better if they are higher, though sometimes they > will even come into low hives too. > > Right now we are on fast forward. We've been splitting the bees that are > swarmy, and so far, have been mostly ahead of them, which gives us lots of > cells. I used to avoid using swarm cells, reasoning that that encourages the > swarmy trait in bees, but I've seen enough weak bees over the fast few years, > that I've decided that bees that are strong enough to swarm are just exactly > what I want. > > Each hive that looks good, but has no swarm cells we pull all but two > frames of sealed brood from the brood chamber and raise it above the > excluder, making sure the queen is below. I like to see them, but this year, > this usually means shaking the bees off the brood, and they'll have to walk > up through the excluder. > > We give the queen some nice empty comb in the center of the brood nest to > lay in. This effectively stops swarming for a while, and over the first > (deep) super with brood, we place a couple shallows. > > Those that have swarm cells are busted up for spits. Once they have the > idea of swarming, it is almost impossible to stop them. Some hobbyists with > lots of time cut out the cells, but you are apt to miss just one, and it's > likely to be a little tiny one that makes a lousy queen. > > So the only practical way to save our livestock from running off into the > woods is to help them do what they wanted to do - reproduce. > > We're just about out of nuc boxes, and are running out of comb, so we are > trying an old trick that might be useful to others as well. We have A LOT of > old junk deeps (with corners rotted off, etc.) We bust up the swarmy bees > into 3-5 nucs. Each nuc is placed along one side of a deep box (2-4 frames). > We don't look for queens once cells have formed, just making sure each nuc > has at least one cell. Frames with cells are handled gently, and never > turned upside down, as the queens can be damaged if their wings are in > formation at the time. > We've found eight so far that have been occupied by happy swarms, and we've > caught two (not from our bees). I say set the deadouts up, because they > will attract swarms much better if they are higher, though sometimes they > will even come into low hives too. > > Right now we are on fast forward. We've been splitting the bees that are > swarmy, and so far, have been mostly ahead of them, which gives us lots of > cells. I used to avoid using swarm cells, reasoning that that encourages the > swarmy trait in bees, but I've seen enough weak bees over the fast few years, > that I've decided that bees that are strong enough to swarm are just exactly > what I want. > > Each hive that looks good, but has no swarm cells we pull all but two > frames of sealed brood from the brood chamber and raise it above the > excluder, making sure the queen is below. I like to see them, but this year, > this usually means shaking the bees off the brood, and they'll have to walk > up through the excluder. > > We give the queen some nice empty comb in the center of the brood nest to > lay in. This effectively stops swarming for a while, and over the first > (deep) super with brood, we place a couple shallows. > > Those that have swarm cells are busted up for spits. Once they have the > idea of swarming, it is almost impossible to stop them. Some hobbyists with > lots of time cut out the cells, but you are apt to miss just one, and it's > likely to be a little tiny one that makes a lousy queen. > > So the only practical way to save our livestock from running off into the > woods is to help them do what they wanted to do - reproduce. > > We're just about out of nuc boxes, and are running out of comb, so we are > trying an old trick that might be useful to others as well. We have A LOT of > old junk deeps (with corners rotted off, etc.) We bust up the swarmy bees > into 3-5 nucs. Each nuc is placed along one side of a deep box (2-4 frames). > We don't look for queens once cells have formed, just making sure each nuc > has at least one cell. Frames with cells are handled gently, and never > turned upside down, as the queens can be damaged if their wings are in > formation at the time. > We've found eight so far that have been occupied by happy swarms, and we've > caught two (not from our bees). I say set the deadouts up, because they > will attract swarms much better if they are higher, though sometimes they > will even come into low hives too. > > Right now we are on fast forward. We've been splitting the bees that are > swarmy, and so far, have been mostly ahead of them, which gives us lots of > cells. I used to avoid using swarm cells, reasoning that that encourages the > swarmy trait in bees, but I've seen enough weak bees over the fast few years, > that I've decided that bees that are strong enough to swarm are just exactly > what I want. > > Each hive that looks good, but has no swarm cells we pull all but two > frames of sealed brood from the brood chamber and raise it above the > excluder, making sure the queen is below. I like to see them, but this year, > this usually means shaking the bees off the brood, and they'll have to walk > up through the excluder. > > We give the queen some nice empty comb in the center of the brood nest to > lay in. This effectively stops swarming for a while, and over the first > (deep) super with brood, we place a couple shallows. > > Those that have swarm cells are busted up for spits. Once they have the > idea of swarming, it is almost impossible to stop them. Some hobbyists with > lots of time cut out the cells, but you are apt to miss just one, and it's > likely to be a little tiny one that makes a lousy queen. > > So the only practical way to save our livestock from running off into the > woods is to help them do what they wanted to do - reproduce. > > We're just about out of nuc boxes, and are running out of comb, so we are > trying an old trick that might be useful to others as well. We have A LOT of > old junk deeps (with corners rotted off, etc.) We bust up the swarmy bees > into 3-5 nucs. Each nuc is placed along one side of a deep box (2-4 frames). > We don't look for queens once cells have formed, just making sure each nuc > has at least one cell. Frames with cells are handled gently, and never > turned upside down, as the queens can be damaged if their wings are in > formation at the time. Nice to hear of your adventures and thanks for indicating the area you are in. I appeal to everyone to indicate their location - it makes for much more interesting reading. Here in northern Alberta my bees are still wrapped up. I was going to start unwrapping next week (early for me) but the forecast calls for below freezing at night so I may wait awhile yet. Eric ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 2 Apr 1995 07:22:19 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Subject: Re: Report from swarmy SC In-Reply-To: <9504020641.AA30982@cuugnet.cuug.ab.ca> On Sat, 1 Apr 1995, Eric Abell wrote: > On Sat, 1 Apr 1995, Dave Green, Eastern Pollinator Newsletter wrote: > > > Dear Bee-L'ers: > > > > We arrived back from our Florida bees last week to South Carolina, to find > > swarms galore. The season is about a week early, and I am about a week later > > than I had wanted to be. Dewberries are in full bloom. > > Nice to hear of your adventures and thanks for indicating the area you > are in. I appeal to everyone to indicate their location - it makes for > much more interesting reading. > > Here in northern Alberta my bees are still wrapped up. I was going to > start unwrapping next week (early for me) but the forecast calls for > below freezing at night so I may wait awhile yet. A little south of Eric (150 miles), we are getting calls about bees around buildings and in chop bins, so I am off to unwrap some hives. Should probably have done so a week or two back to head this off a bit. While they are wrapped, they break cluster sooner and tend to fly around and make a nuisance of themselves and dwindle. Unwrapped, they tend to sit on the brood more and conserve their energy. No willows or trees yet. It's been dry -- and cool too, until the last week, and everything is a little late. Nothing for the bees to do except snoop. Should have put out some beepro or soyflour, I guess, but it is expensive and a hassle. But then bees in neighbours yards is bad PR. W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper VE6CFK Rural Route One Swalwell Alberta Canada T0M 1Y0 Email: dicka@cuug.ab.ca or allend@internode.net Virtual Art Gallery: http://www.cuug.ab.ca:8001/~dicka __________________Why not drop by?____________________ ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 2 Apr 1995 08:05:23 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Casey Burns Subject: No bees here! In-Reply-To: <199504020623.WAA20829@kendaco.telebyte.com> Cherries and other fruit trees are in full bloom - as well as dandilions, etc. Warm (60 - 70 F) weather - but I haven't seen a honey bee in over a month (mine were all wiped out - apparently, all other hives in the area were also - by Varroa). Seen fewer bumblebees this year - but lots of Mason Carpenter bees. Anyone else in W. Washington making the same observations? Casey Burns ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 2 Apr 1995 11:35:10 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Robert Stephen Rodgers Subject: Re: nutra sweet In-Reply-To: <199504020500.AAA23751@csc-srv.wam.umd.edu> On Sat, 1 Apr 1995, Jack C. Turner wrote: > I've feed nutra sweet for years - amassed a fortune from low > cal honey. Did you ever actually test the honey to see if it was really low-cal, or did you just assume that feeding the bees nutrasweet would product low-cal honey? ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 2 Apr 1995 08:41:59 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Teri Rhan {FMO} Subject: Re: nutra sweet In-Reply-To: <9504021537.AA06431@mx1.cac.washington.edu> There seem to be a few that didn't quite notice the date on the nutrasweet thread????!!!! On Sun, 2 Apr 1995, Robert Stephen Rodgers wrote: > On Sat, 1 Apr 1995, Jack C. Turner wrote: > > I've feed nutra sweet for years - amassed a fortune from low > > cal honey. > > Did you ever actually test the honey to see if it was really low-cal, or > did you just assume that feeding the bees nutrasweet would product > low-cal honey? > ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 2 Apr 1995 16:05:50 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Michael J. Schmidt" Subject: Local Honey source-Lake Butler FL I need a source for local honey in the area of Lake Butler, Florida in area of Gainesville to Jacksonville). If anyone knows of such a source, please let me know. Thanks. Michael J. Schmidt 771 E 300N Rd Gibson City IL 60936-7167 217-749-2331 MJSchmidt@aol.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 31 Mar 1995 22:31:58 -0800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Hugo Veerkamp Subject: NBB newsletter of month 04,95 hi all, This monthly newsletter is published simultaneously in BEENET, in sci.agiculture.beekeeping newsgroup and in BEE-L. H.V. =================================================================== Northern Bee books Newsletter BeeBooks Digest--Apicultural Publications and Issues Volume 1, Number 2, april 1995 (c) H.Veerkamp & J.Burbidge. " all rights reserved" =================================================================== INTRODUCTION Yet another beekeeping newsletter on the web...the more, the merrier, I'd say. This newsletter is an attempt at making information on newly appearing beebooks as well as on those 'golden oldies', available to the beekeeping community. Our main source of info will be at Northern bee books UK, but input( related to beebooks) from others is hereby cordially invited. Hugo Veerkamp, Amsterdam, Holland editor, NBB newsletter OTHER APIARY CREATURES There is a series of naturalists' handbooks which are written and illustrated with great accuracy and are unbeatable value for making possible the easy and positive identification of some other common flying insects. Northern Bee Books stocks three: Solitary Wasps (Yeo and Corbet), Bumblebees (Prys-Jones and Corbet) and Dragonflies (Miller). They are ideal for presents for beekeepers and others and will give pleasure for years. Yeo and Corbet: Solitary Wasps Prys-Jones and Corbet: Bumblebees Miller: Dragonflies SOCIAL WASPS At the other end of the price scale is Social Wasps by Robin Edwards, from the Rentokil Library. It's a hefty #31 but good value because of the continuing interest it engenders in these beautiful, useful, intelligent and gentle insects, close relatives of our bees which get so much unjustified bad publicity. Social wasps can be a problem in the apiary at some times, knowledge of their life cycle and habits will enable beekeepers to counter their unwanted attentions effectively and humanely. Robin Edwards: Social Wasps VARROA BOOKS The creature none of us wants but all will have in our apiaries is Varroa jacobsoni. There will be much more written about the parasite as more is revealed through research and experience, presently you can't do better than read The New Varroa Handbook (Mobus & de Bruyn) or Varroa Mesh Floors (P.A.M.) Mobus & de Bruyn: The New Varroa Handbook P.A.M.: Varroa Mesh Floors A TRUE REFERENCE The most gasped-at price is attached to Bees and Beekeeping, the ordinary sounding title of an extraordinarily comprehensive book. Dr Eva Crane, an international legend for many years, produced this huge book What's in it? Everything you can think of about the science and practice of beekeeping known to date. A true reference book with extensive indices and bibliography. Everyone who is serious about wanting to know about bees and beekeeping should have one. Dr Eva Crane: Bees and Beekeeping BEEKEEPING POETRY A nice little hardback by Amoret Scott which will not improve your beekeeping in any way - except perhaps to make you muse on your love of bees. 'A Murmur of bees' is an anthology of poetry, prose and doggerel about bees and beekeeping which ranges from the sublime to the ridiculous. It is by no means exhaustive, but it is a good selection of the best in the field, with a few gems. Amoret Scott: A Murmur of bees THE BEE BOOK BOOK In 1991 Northern Bee Books published 'The Bee Book Book', by Geoffrey Lawes. This is for serious bibliophiles or browsers, something you could live without but wouldn't want to once you have it. You may not think that you want to know anything about bee books which you don't already know but this little red book has a seductive quality which keeps drawing one back to its pages. It covers history, collecting, restoration and too much more to list here. Geoffrey Lawes: The Bee Book Book POLLEN LOADS Pollen, a vital protein for bee brood. To get the best from it and thence for ourbees it will be beneficial to learn more about local supplies. Dorothy Hodges will be remembered for her study of 'The Pollen Loads of the Honey Bee', the first edition of which had hand painted panels of perfectly matched colours. A recent edition this classical work is available. Rex Sawyer also made his name in the field of pollen identification in honeys, thereby proving or disproving alleged sources in court. 'Pollen Identification for Beekeepers' is also difficult to find but its companion volume, 'Honey Identification', is out of print. The newest book on the pollen scene is also a colour chart of pollens 'A colour guide to pollen loads of the honey bee', not to be confused with Hodges despite its similar title. William Kirk's work shows pollen colours of 268 German and British plants with text in English, French and German. Kirk gives much credit to Hodges in his explanatory notes and there is a useful paragraph for students about measuring relative pollen grain sizes, an important part of the identification.It is Spiral bound to lie flat. Dorothy Hodges: The Pollen Loads of the Honey Bee William Kirk: A colour guide to pollen loads of the honey bee Rex Sawyer: Pollen Identification for Beekeepers Rex Sawyer: Honey Identification ============================================================================ for further inquiries about books reviewed or book catalog, please send E-mail to: Jeremy Burbidge at ruxbury@delphi.com or to: Hugo Veerkamp at Hugo.Veerkamp@f28.n2801.z2.fidonet.org ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 1 Apr 1995 02:41:24 -0800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Hugo Veerkamp Subject: price of Apistan in Holland dear colleagues, Here's my contribution to the price of Apistan debate: In Holland, it is now a legalised anti Varroa treatment and is sold in our national beekeepers assn.( VBBN) shop, for 45 guilders( about US$ 23) per pack of ten strips. So far , we've seen following approximated prices per pack of 10 strips: US$: CYPRUS( Andreas Kasenides): "too high" BELGIUM ( Hugo Thone): 21 CANADA (Kerry Clark): 16 FINLAND (Seppo Korpela): 45 HOLLAND (Hugo Veerkamp): 23 A mean of US$ 26.25 follows, with rather large fluctuations; now we all know about the expensiveness of Apistan in our own country.. sincerely, Hugo -- \|/ @ @ Hugo Veerkamp ----------oOO-(_)-OOo--------------------------------------------- | reply to: BEENET INTERNATIONAL | | Hugo.Veerkamp@f28.n2801.z2.fidonet.org| mail : the Bee bbs | | | P.O. BOX 51008 | | DO NOT SIMPLY PRESS REPLY BUTTON !! | 1007EA AMSTERDAM | |(or your reply gets lost in bit heaven)| The Netherlands | | Beenet : 240:31/0 | modem: +31 20 6764105 | | Fidonet: 2:2801/28 | voice: +31 20 6715663 | ------------------------------------------------------------------ ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 2 Apr 1995 20:53:53 GMT Reply-To: Gordon@apis.demon.co.uk Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Gordon Scott Subject: Re: B.Mail Magazine Comments: cc: kevmillican@delphi.com In message <9504012334.aa14658@punt2.demon.co.uk> BEE-L@uacsc2.albany.edu writes: > A friend of mine is very interested in seeing the contents of > your electronic magazine.... Hi Kevin, Just getting hold of a copy of B.Mail would not show your friend either the richness or the immediacy of Bee-L. If I _just_ saw a copy of B.Mail I'd shrug and say 'yeah -- so what' (not that it's not very valuable). But there is SO MUCH MORE AS WELL. As you have access, *subscribe* for a while on your friend's behalf and show what's here (and on sci.agriculture.beekeeping). This mailing list is solid gold! Regards, -- Gordon Scott Gordon@apis.demon.co.uk 100332,3310 on CompuServe Newsletter Beekeeper@apis.demon.co.uk ditto Beekeeper, Kendo Sandan, sometime sailor. Basingstoke, Hampshire, RG22 5HP, UK ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 2 Apr 1995 21:04:59 GMT Reply-To: Gordon@apis.demon.co.uk Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Gordon Scott Subject: Re: Feeding bees Well done & thanks Dave; and the others who added their contributions whether or not knowingly. It's been a long hard week & I needed that bit of fun. I haven't chuckled so much for ages. -- Gordon Scott Gordon@apis.demon.co.uk 100332,3310 on CompuServe Newsletter Beekeeper@apis.demon.co.uk ditto Beekeeper, Kendo Sandan, sometime sailor. Basingstoke, Hampshire, RG22 5HP, UK ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 2 Apr 1995 20:54:57 PDT Reply-To: flatiron@CERF.NET Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: flatiron@CERF.NET Subject: getting on list I'd like to be included in your beekeepers mail-list. I'm a hobbyist who has three colonies near spring green wisconsin, and I need all the help I can get. Snail mail 5776 hiway 130, Avoca WI 53506. thanks, Bob Schneiger ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 2 Apr 1995 23:04:50 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Brian Tassey Subject: Re: Report from swarmy CA Eric, Here in CA. I've been moving loads to the sage and oranges. I finally got to dock my boat and use my trucks. The bees look great, in fact we had to add a few more turns on the winches to make sure they didn't fly off with the pallets. It's a good thing they know the way because when your steering wheels leave the ground it's difficult to get where your headed. This is one of those times that I appreciate living in "Nutty" California. Have a good one! Brian Tassey Kaykin@aol.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 2 Apr 1995 23:08:51 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Brian Tassey Subject: Re: Canned Bee Smoke? Michael, I know of an older (retired) queen breeder that swore by using RightGuard anti-perspirant while working his colonies. It masked the alarm scents. Not smoke in a can but think of the dual purpose uses! Brian Tassey Kaykin@aol.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 2 Apr 1995 23:47:10 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Gordon D. Hayes" Subject: IN State Beekeepers Mtg. >Just attended the Indiana State Beekeepers meeting this past Sat. (Mar. 25). >This is the first meeting I have attended. It was very informative. The part >that helped me the most as a beekeeper was the talk by the new IN. State Bee >Inspector. I don't envy her, nor her helpers any at all. There are 92 >counties in the state of IN. There are seven, maybe eight inspectors, >including herself, to cover the whole state this spring and summer. > >The main scope of her talk was on the problem with mites. Namely, the Varroa >and Tracheal mites. As most of you know, or at least have heard, they have >been creating a problem for beekeepers in Europe for over twenty years. They >are in the USA now and will probably be in Canada soon, if they aren't >already. Our part of the Midwest has been hit particularly hard. Partly >because many beekeepers thought they wouldn't get the mites and didn't treat >for them. And then you have large pollinators who feel it is cheaper to >replace bees than to treat. > >Currently there is only one prescribed and approved treatment for the >Varroa. That is Apistan. But it has to be used accordong to package >directions or the mites will become resistant to the fluvalinate-based >insecticide. I have used Apistan with a great deal of success so far. And >would recommend both a spring and fall treatment. > >For the Tracheal mite, which is not as great a problem so far, there are a >couple of treatments that she said were approved. One is the use of menthol >in the early spring. It has been prven effective in the treatment of >Trachael mites. The only problem we have in this area is that our springs >are not warm enough, at least not normally. It has to be fairly warm for the >vapors to dissipatee throughout the hive. > >The other treatment for Tracheal mites is the use of extender patties. This >is where I learned something new at the meeting. Kathleen Prough (our State >Bee Insp.) says that she recommends the use of extender patties WITHOUT >Terramycin. She recommmended that hives be treated in the spring with a >Terramycin and Powdered Sugar dusting for AFB. Her reason was thus: IF you >use only vegetable shortening and sugar to treat for tracheal mites, you can >leave the treatment on year round. And it is the shortening that is >effective in controlling the Tracheal mite. I believe I am going to use this >method in the future. > >She also talked about a new disease that has been showing up that was >discussed in the December 1994 issue of the American Bee Journal. Can't >remember the name but if it is present, it will appear that you have AFB, >EFB, and Sacbrood all three. The main difference is that the dead larvae >will not rope out when you test for AFB. > >She also told us the proper method for sending samples for testing to the >Bee REsearc Lab at Beltsville. They ask that a 2"x2" sample of brood with >the symptons be sent in PAPER. NO plastic as this destroys the sample. She >also said that they do not want any honey in the sample. Also send along >approximately 100 dead adult bees which have died naturally. > >We also learned how to bleach dark wax and how to make moisturizing lotion >using beeswax. But I'll save that for another message. I have rambled on too >long as it is. > >Hope this information is helpful. > >gh >gdhayes@evansville.net >gordon.hayes@gccbbs.com > > > ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 2 Apr 1995 23:48:35 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Gordon D. Hayes" Subject: Re: same >I've been trying to get off this list for months >what is the problem??????? >if you find out, PLEASE tell me. Shawn, Are you sending your requests to the BEE-L or to listserv@uacsc2.albany.edu? Also, have you changed connections since you subscribed? When you subscribed to Bee-L you sent a message to listserv with the only text being "subscribe bee-l first name last name" Now you need to send a similar message to the listserver your original subscription request went to. Only substitute "unsubscribe" for "subscribe". Hope this helps. gh gdhayes@evansville.net gordon.hayes@gccbbs.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 2 Apr 1995 23:48:48 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Gordon D. Hayes" Subject: Re: follower boards >hello, > Being the new kid on the block, maybe I am missing out on the logic >of using a follower board. Why would you want to reduce your hive I too am kinda the new kid on the block. But I believe the logic behind the use of follower boards is thus. The use of 10 frames in a 10 frame hive box makes it difficult to remove the first frame when working a hive. Follower boards are used to make this less of a problem. Correct me if I am wrong. I normally use only nine frames in my hive boxes (brood and supers both). I use frame spacers myself. The reason for doing this in the brood boxes is supposedly to lessen the possibility of injuring the queen when working in the brood box. This may or may not be so. But it is the way I was taught. I might add that I use 10 frames of foundation when starting a new hive. Again, the way I was taught. :) The use of 9 frames in the supers makes more sense. The bees draw the comb out fuller and it is easier to uncap the comb for extraction. It's like a fellow beekeeper told me, "There are as many ways to keep bees as there are beekeepers." gh gdhayes@evansville.net gordon.hayes@gccbbs.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 2 Apr 1995 23:48:23 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Edward Sterling Subject: Queen excluder..."honey excluder" ? Hello friends, I'm just a backyard amateur, 2 hives...had up to 6 in Canada a few years ago. I took a classroom course to get started, then a "beeyard" course later to really experience beekeeping (when the book says "shake the nuc into the hive", YOU JUST GOTTA DO IT FOR YOURSELF TO BELIEVE IT! :-) Anyway...subject line is the question...my "beeyard" instructor grumped at queen excluders and said "they oughta be called 'honey excluders'...(grumble grumble)." Can I solicit feedback from you all? Agree, disagree? When to use it? Special circumstances? Thanks Ed ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ed Sterling, GPCC | ACTUAL quotes from my kids: "Daddy, hummingbirds Bolton, MA 01740 USA | help the bees put honey in the flowers!" "In the Phone/FAX: 508-779-6058 | daytime, the sun melts the moon into cloudpieces!" "ed@gpcc.ultranet.com" | "A snowman makes the quietest sounds in the world" ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- I can never remember the hex location in low core of the brain-check new PSW ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- http://www.ultranet.com/~ed => info about collecting toys from 1950s/60s/70s such as playsets, Army toys, GI Joe, cowboy gun sets, building sets, etc!! ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Apr 1995 01:06:25 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: HARRIGER@EDINBORO.EDU Subject: Re: Queen excluder..."honey excluder" ? Ed, I too have heard the same expression since I started keeping bees. My thought is; who are they (honey excluders) excluding the honey from? Since I am a hobbiest and do not need to get all the honey so it really doesn't matter to me. If we follow bee biology they put most of their stores above the cluster to be used through the winter. If we take it all they will have to be fed to survive. When I use the excluder I know that some of the honey will remain in the lower hive bodies which is a nice place to have it going into the winter. :-) Ron Harriger Cambridge Springs Pa. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Apr 1995 03:14:35 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Subject: Re: follower boards In-Reply-To: <9504030357.AA14190@cuugnet.cuug.ab.ca> On Sun, 2 Apr 1995, Gordon D. Hayes wrote: > > Being the new kid on the block, maybe I am missing out on the logic > >of using a follower board. Why would you want to reduce your hive > > I too am kinda the new kid on the block. But I believe the logic behind the > use of follower boards is thus. > > The use of 10 frames in a 10 frame hive box makes it difficult to remove the > first frame when working a hive. Follower boards are used to make this less > of a problem. Correct me if I am wrong. This true and, also, if there is room above (a second brood chamber), the queen will tend to go up and down rather than out, and the side frames thus tend to fill with honey, which is not good if you use excluders. Moreover, the hives get heavy to handle and there is the cost of the additional frame that contributes little in each brood chamber. The brood nest will tend to be more vertical in the higher latitudes and more horizontal in the equatorial regions, so YMMV. I'm at 52 dgrees N. > I normally use only nine frames in my hive boxes (brood and supers both). I > use frame spacers myself. The reason for doing this in the brood boxes is > supposedly to lessen the possibility of injuring the queen when working in > the brood box. This may or may not be so. But it is the way I was taught. I > might add that I use 10 frames of foundation when starting a new hive. > Again, the way I was taught. :) Wise. I even use one frame less, because I use a frame feeder all year in each and every brood box. > The use of 9 frames in the supers makes more sense. The bees draw the comb > out fuller and it is easier to uncap the comb for extraction. I use eight frames to standard super, spaced by metal spacers. > It's like a fellow beekeeper told me, "There are as many ways to keep bees > as there are beekeepers." More :) W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper VE6CFK Rural Route One Swalwell Alberta Canada T0M 1Y0 Email: dicka@cuug.ab.ca or allend@internode.net Virtual Art Gallery: http://www.cuug.ab.ca:8001/~dicka __________________Why not drop by?____________________ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Apr 1995 17:49:23 +1 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: SUSAST@ECO.UNIPV.IT Organization: Facolta' di Economia - Pavia Subject: Informations Comments: To: bee-l%albnyvm1.BITNET@icil64.cilea.it Send me informations abaut honeybees and bumble bees, pollination, honey and related material. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Apr 1995 03:51:17 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Subject: Re: Queen excluder..."honey excluder" ? In-Reply-To: <9504030511.AA29768@cuugnet.cuug.ab.ca> On Mon, 3 Apr 1995 HARRIGER@EDINBORO.EDU wrote: > Ed, I too have heard the same expression since I started keeping bees. > My thought is; who are they (honey excluders) excluding the honey from? > Since I am a hobbiest and do not need to get all the honey so it really > doesn't matter to me. If we follow bee biology they put most of their > stores above the cluster to be used through the winter. If we take it all > they will have to be fed to survive. When I use the excluder I know that > some of the honey will remain in the lower hive bodies which is a nice > place to have it going into the winter. This is a rather technical matter, and requires understanding of bees, timing, and observation. Here is some of what is required to understand the problem: Bees prefer to store honey in dark comb and raise brood in new comb. Bees prefer (in the high latitudes at least) to have the brood running up and down the hive, not so much across the hive. Young queens are more adventurous about where they will lay. Old queens are less likely to cross wood or honey to find a spot to lay or have as large a brood area at some times of the year. After the spring, brood nest expansion will end (usually) and brood rearing will tend to take place mostly in combs which have had brood previously during that season assuming the brood nest is undisturbed. This is especially true with older queens and some breeds. In a strong flow bees will move honey storage into any cavity in the hive when they run out of space and will even build comb under the hive floor on occasion or fill jars placed over holes in a cover (it may have to be covered to be dark). Bees tend not to want to walk over much capped honey to begin storing honey in a new space -- especially in a slow flow. Once bees start to work a strong flow, they will tend to keep going until they run entirely out of space. Once bees go into a new space and begin work there excluders are no barrier. If they are permitted enough space under an excluder to store significant honey and raise lots of brood, they may refuse to go through it; hence excluders are really tricky in three standard brood nest colonies. Small populations do not tend to expand through excluders unless crowded by them. Swarming is easily stimulated early in the season and almost never happens as the season tapers off. Bees not properly supered early enough (before the need is pressing) will swarm. Using the above tendencies, a wise beekeeper can use excluders to get the right performance from his/her bees. Perhaps someone will add to this list. The goal is not only to get a good crop, but also to get it with a minimum of fuss and damage to the bees. Since Alberta has gone to wintering from package production, and beekeepers have had to learn something about bees, commercial beekeepers have slowly gone over to excluders. Very few that I know are not using them to some extent. In areas with predictable heavy flows, the excluder is less essential. In other areas, it makes preparation for wintering (in two brood chambers) much simpler. W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper VE6CFK Rural Route One Swalwell Alberta Canada T0M 1Y0 Email: dicka@cuug.ab.ca or allend@internode.net Virtual Art Gallery: http://www.cuug.ab.ca:8001/~dicka __________________Why not drop by?____________________ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Apr 1995 12:34:27 +0100 Reply-To: IBRA@cardiff.ac.uk Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Dr Pamela Munn Subject: Re: B.Mail Magazine In-Reply-To: from "KEVMILLICAN@DELPHI.COM" at Apr 1, 95 05:33:06 pm Dear Kevin I will send you the latest Bmail (April) to show your friend. > A friend of mine is very interested in seeing the contents of > your electronic magazine - could you send me a copy or a > selection of pages so that he can see the type of content > before investing cash and time in a modem and account etc. ? > > Thanks & Regards > > Kevin Millican > ************************************************************** * Dr Pamela Munn * * Editor of Bee World, Associate Editor of J. Apic. Res. * *============================================================* * E.mail : IBRA@Cardiff.AC.UK | Mail : IBRA * * Phone : (+44) 1222 372 409 | 18 North Road * * Fax : (+44) 1222 665 522 | Cardiff CF1 3DY * * | UK * *============================================================* * If your mail is for someone else in IBRA I will pass it on * ************************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Apr 1995 12:48:50 +0100 Reply-To: IBRA@cardiff.ac.uk Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Dr Pamela Munn Subject: no subject (file transmission) Comments: To: socinsct@albnyvm1.BITNET, "hugo.veerkamp" , polpal-l@uoguelph.ca ===================================================== B-MAIL A monthly newsletter on issues and events in the bee world, provided by IBRA, the world information service for bee science and beekeeping. Andrew Matheson, Director **April 1995** ===================================================== INFORMATION Recent discussion on some of the beekeeping newsgroups now available started me thinking about information sources; how abundant and how easily accessible they are. The topic under review was New Zealand's bee health status and bee health protection programme in relation to US imports. I don't want to get into that debate (at least, not now), but because I know something of the subject I was struck by the type of questions being aired. Where do you go, if you suddenly want to find out about a subject that's new or obscure, at least to you? Starting from scratch that's sometimes a hard question to answer. Using our BeeSearch service at IBRA's library, a simple search for the term 'New Zealand' in abstracts and titles from 1983-1994 produced 276 items. Obviously putting in a more specific request, such as for diseases, would generate a smaller but more focused bibliography. The strength of Apicultural Abstracts, on which BeeSearch is based, is that it covers so much material not covered elsewhere: industry journals and the so-called 'grey literature' which is otherwise impossible to find. And of course almost all the items are available from IBRA's library. Following the New Zealand theme, the BeeSearch enquiry would have thrown up really useful current reviews such as those listed below, which give you in one place a good analysis of the situation and a reference list for further searching. Occasionally it produces gems for people seeking comprehensive information, such as a bibliography. The message? There are good information services available, and even a simple and relatively inexpensive search can give an enquirer a good head start. Review articles, and especially bibliographies, can unlock a goldmine of further references. Discussion on any issue can take place on an informed basis - even for something as obscure (to some people!) as New Zealand. SOME REVIEW ARTICLES COVERING NEW ZEALAND BEEKEEPING The numbers given at the end of references denote entries in Apicultural Abstracts. Diseases Reid, M (1988) Diseases of honey bees in New Zealand. Surveillance 15(5): 15-17. 1238L/89 Disease control Van Eaton, C (1992) New developments in the control of honey bee diseases in New Zealand. Surveillance 19(1): 8-9. 1255/93 Kiwifruit pollination Van Eaton, C (1992) Kiwifruit pollination and production. Gleanings in Bee Culture 120(9): 494-497. 1416/93 Bibliography Reid, G M et al. (1988) A bibliography of New Zealand apiculture 1842- 1986. 140 pages. GBP 10.00 plus postage from IBRA. 441/89 Review of industry Matheson, A (1992) Beekeeping: leading agricultural change in New Zealand. 32 pages. IBRA publication M123; GBP 3.75 plus postage from IBRA. 850/92 MITES ON THE MARCH Varroa has been discovered on an island in Torres Strait between Papua New Guinea and the Australian mainland, in feral colonies of Apis cerana. The island where the mites were found has been declared an infected area, along with two close neighbours, by the Australian Quarantine and Inspection Service (AQIS). These islands are Australian territory even though they are only a few kilometres from PNG; the Australian mainland, 150 km to the south, remains free of both the mite and Apis cerana. Varroa was first found in PNG in 1986 and is assumed to have spread from honey bee colonies moved to Irian Jaya (which shares the island of New Guinea with PNG) from other parts of Indonesia. AQIS has been monitoring the spread of varroa through PNG and Irian Jaya as part of a research programme, and also maintains strict controls on the movement of plants, animals and their products in Torres Strait. A 35-km stretch of open seas south of the infested islands provides a natural barrier to the further spread of the Asian hive bee. AND TRACHEAL MITES The tracheal mite Acarapis woodi has been detected in South Africa for the first time. This isn't too surprising in that the tracheal mite has been recorded from subequatorial Africa, and that knowledge of the bee health status of South Africa's neighbours is quite limited. However, this species has not been recorded from South Africa before, presumably despite past sampling. FREE UPDATE TO BEE HEALTH REPORT I published a comprehensive review of world bee health in Bee World in 1993, which is available for sale as a separate reprint from IBRA. An update was published in the first issue of Bee World for 1995, including new records for 48 territories. This update will be included free of charge with all copies of the original review from now on. 'World bee health report', IBRA publication M127, 37 pages. Now with 9 page supplement. GBP 4.25 plus postage, available from IBRA. AND MORE ON INFORMATION SERVICES There's been an explosion in information sources and discussion forums on the internet, as anyone who hasn't been on another planet for the past twelve months has noticed. No-one can hope to keep up with it all, but in B.mail I hope to feature some places you can go on the net that are interesting and informative. This month's offering comes courtesy of Adam Finklestein in Virginia, USA (adamf@vtaix.cc.vt.edu), who is very active in promoting internet use for beekeepers. Adam has prepared a useful directory of internet resources relating to beekeeping in a set of FAQ (frequently asked questions). To get hold of the latest copy of the beekeeping FAQ go to the Worldwide Web page with URL: http://www/cis.ohio-state.edu:80/hypertext/faq/usenet/top.html Once here (using a web browser of course) look for beekeeping. The FAQ starts with 'sci.agriculture...' but is archived alphabetically under 'B' for beekeeping. You can also get this through ftp: FTP rtfm.mit.edu; log on anonymous, then cd to /pub/usenet/news.answers/beekeeping-faq. You can also FTP to: ftp.uu.net /usenet/news.answers/beekeeping-faq. If you can't use FTP, you may email for the faq to mail- server@rtfm.mit.edu. Use no subject heading and in the body of the letter put: 'send usenet/news.answers/beekeepig-faq'. The beekeeping faq is posted every month to a number of usenet sites: news.answers, sci.answers, misc.answers, alt.answers, rec.answers, as well as sci.agriculture.beekeeping, misc.rural, alt.sustainable.agriculture, and rec.gardens. WWW And here's an interesting Worldwide Web URL that wasn't in the faq last time I looked: Stephen Buchmann at the USDA research station in Tucson, Arizona, has been responsible for setting up GEARS (Global Entomology Agricultural Research Server). It went online on 1 February 1995 and averages 1,500 to 2,000 file requests per day; and was recently selected as the hottest site (or is it the coolest site?) by Wired magazine. Visit GEARS at: http://gears.tucson.ars.ag.gov/ LAST CALL FOR BEE CONSERVATION MEETING The symposium 'Conserving Europe's bees' is nearly upon us and on 6 and 7 April many of the active bee scientists in Europe, and a number from further afield, will be in London at what promises to be a very stimulating gathering. Places are still available, but you'll have to register fast to be sure of being able to take part. Contact john@linnean.demon.co.uk. I want to record my appreciation of the four session convenors who have worked with me in putting this together: Professor Ingrid Williams, IACR Rothamsted, UK (IBRA council chairman) Christopher O'Toole, University Museum, Oxford, UK (IBRA council member) Dr Stephen Buchmann, USDA-ARS, Tucson, USA Dr Paul Westrich, Institut fur Wildbienenkunde, Tuebingen, Germany. The symposium is being cohosted by the Linnean Society of London, Dr John Marsden, Executive Secretary. BUMBLE BEES FOR PLEASURE AND PROFIT Here's another meeting being organized by IBRA, this time not only on a scientific theme but with lots of good, practical information about bumble bees. It's designed for anyone who wants to make money or just learn about these fascinating beasts. Mark your diary for Saturday 23 September 1995 and plan to be in London, UK. The programme is given below, and we'll have registration forms available from IBRA really soon. Contact us for more information. Programme 0945-1015 Registration Chairman: Andrew Matheson, Director, International Bee Research Association 1015-1050 Why bumble bees are special Dr Sarah A. Corbet, Zoology Department, University of Cambridge, UK 1050-1125 Bumble bees in the countryside Dr Gary Fry, Norwegian Institute for Nature Research, As, Norway 1125-1140 Discussion 1140-1200 Coffee break 1200-1245 Bumble bees at home and at school Dr Manja Kwak, Department of Plant Biology, University of Groningen, Netherlands 1245-1400 Lunch break Chairman: Dr Don Griffiths, Bunting Biological Control Ltd 1400-1435 Bumble bees as pollinators of crops and wild flowers Dr Ingrid Williams and Juliet Osborne, Institute of Arable Crops Research, Rothamsted, Harpenden, UK 1435-1510 Bumble bees as pollinators of glasshouse crops Dr Don Griffiths, Bunting Biological Control Ltd, Colchester, UK; Evert Robberts, Bunting Brinkman Bees BV, Tilburg, Netherlands 1510-1525 Discussion 1525-1545 Tea break 1545-1630 Commercial rearing of bumble bees Melanie Hughes, National Bee Unit, Central Science Laboratory, Luddington, UK 1630-1730 Exhibits and bar This programme was put together by Dr Sarah Corbet and Dr Don Griffiths, both members of IBRA's council, who have joined me on the organizing group for this event. WILD BEE NESTS The environmental group Greenpeace includes a nest box for wild bees in its UK catalogue. The clay box with different-sized 'reeds' as nesting tubes sells for GBP 22.25, or about USD 35. EXCELLENT BOOK ON BEEKEEPING WITH APIS CERANA In last month's B.mail I reviewed a pioneering book on beekeeping with Apis cerana; 'Beekeeping for honey production' by Dr R W K Punchihewa of Sri Lanka. This book is available from IBRA for GBP 17.50 (approximately USD 27) plus postage and packing at normal rates. IBRA DAY 1995 This year IBRA Day will be a huge event, as we are combining with the famous beekeeping open day put on by Hartpury College and the Gloucestershire Beekeepers' Association. Set aside Saturday 27 May for a good day out. Involved in moving beehives? Then the two IBRA lectures will have important advice for you. 'Go for the flow: fact and fiction about where bees do get their food'. How much do you know about nectar and pollen sources in Britain, and how much do you have to guess? Norman Carreck of Rothamsted can tell you about the most thorough survey of bee forage in this country for over 30 years. 'A night in the life of a commercial beekeeper'. Practical tips (and some tall tales) from someone who shifts bees for a living. John Cossburn from Hampshire shares some of his vast experience of moving hives for pollination, honey crops and wintering. The day has lots more, including the well-known auction of bees and beekeeping equipment, demonstrations from skep making to microscopy, and trade stands from equipment manufacturers and book stockists. There's plenty for the non-beekeeper to make it a family event, with many craft stands, cooking demonstrations and farm shops. The day kicks off at 10.30 sharp, and runs until about 17.00. Hartpury College is on the A417 between Gloucester and Ledbury, and the venue will be well signposted. See you there Andrew Return address: E.mail: ibra@cardiff.ac.uk Fax: (+44) 1222-665522 Telephone: (+44) 1222-372409 Snailmail: 18 North Road, Cardiff CF1 3DY, UK ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Apr 1995 08:03:29 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Logan Vanleigh Subject: Re: No bees here! E. Tennessee: First maple bloom long over. Dandelions everywhere. Early pear bloom just ending. --No Bees-- Actually not none, just durned few. I'm just getting back into beekeeping after a forced few years off, and you can betcha I'm gonna watch mites like a hawk! ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Apr 1995 15:13:21 +0200 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Andreas Kasenides Subject: Smoke? In-Reply-To: (Your message of Fri, 31 Mar 95 18:07:00 EST.) <9503312308.AA22561@zeus.cc.ucy.ac.cy> Since some fellows are discussing smoke producing techniques I would really like to hear from people that have considerable experience what is their favourite smoke producing agent? Or am I just asking something that is a standard? Thanks Andreas ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Apr 1995 08:24:58 +22300129 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Adam Finkelstein Subject: Re: Smoke? In-Reply-To: <199504031214.HAA115626@ipe.cc.vt.edu> from "Andreas Kasenides" at Apr 3, 95 03:13:21 pm Andreas Kasenides wrote: > Since some fellows are discussing smoke producing techniques I > would really like to hear from people that have considerable > experience what is their favourite smoke producing agent? Needles from _Pinus strobus_. (White Pine) Adam -- ______________________________________ Adam Finkelstein adamf@vtaix.cc.vt.edu ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Apr 1995 15:36:44 +0200 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Andreas Kasenides Subject: Re: price of Apistan in Holland In-Reply-To: (Your message of Sat, 01 Apr 95 02:41:24 PST.) <9504022107.AA25838@zeus.cc.ucy.ac.cy> Since I started the Apistan price query I suppose I should give the price I payed also and revise Hugo's average: US$: CYPRUS( Andreas Kasenides): 21 BELGIUM ( Hugo Thone): 21 CANADA (Kerry Clark): 16 FINLAND (Seppo Korpela): 45 HOLLAND (Hugo Veerkamp): 23 A new mean of $25.2. I stick though to my original assumption that this is "too high" since I can buy a bottle of Mavrik (same ingredient) of 250ml 100% (??) fluvalinate for around $12 and make approximately 2500ml of 10% mixture in which I can soak tons of porous material in it. Anybody know why the price is so high? >A mean of US$ 26.25 follows, with rather large fluctuations; now we all know about the expensiveness of Apistan in our own country.. > >sincerely, Hugo Andreas ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Apr 1995 08:04:07 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Edward Sterling Subject: Re: Smoke? >Since some fellows are discussing smoke producing techniques I >would really like to hear from people that have considerable >experience what is their favourite smoke producing agent? Bailing twine from a local farm was the recommendation of my "bee teacher." I have also heard that sumac (non-poisonous variety please!) clusters work well. The bailing twine works fairly well, I am sure like anything else, you have to be careful not to pack it in the smoker too tightly. It produces a nice white smoke, no residue etc. I would wonder if the pine needles (recommended in an earlier post) would leave a tar residue over time, esp. under a slow burn. Ed ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ed Sterling, GPCC | ACTUAL quotes from my kids: "Daddy, hummingbirds Bolton, MA 01740 USA | help the bees put honey in the flowers!" "In the Phone/FAX: 508-779-6058 | daytime, the sun melts the moon into cloudpieces!" "ed@gpcc.ultranet.com" | "A snowman makes the quietest sounds in the world" ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- I can never remember the hex location in low core of the brain-check new PSW ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- http://www.ultranet.com/~ed => info about collecting toys from 1950s/60s/70s such as playsets, Army toys, GI Joe, cowboy gun sets, building sets, etc!! ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Apr 1995 09:06:14 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Susan W Cobey Subject: Re: Sugar H2O/smokd In-Reply-To: <199504030327.XAA13664@postbox.acs.ohio-state.edu> from "Brian Tassey" at Apr 2, 95 11:08:51 pm A spray of sugar water also works well in place of smoke. I used this under extremely dry conditions on property owned by someone who refused to let us use smoke (experienced a pervious burn). Works o.k., better than canned smoke. Smoke is prefered. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Apr 1995 09:17:20 +22300129 Reply-To: adamf@vtaix.cc.vt.edu Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Adam Finkelstein Subject: Re: Smoke? In-Reply-To: <199504031305.IAA125225@ipe.cc.vt.edu> from "Edward Sterling" at Apr 3, 95 08:04:07 am Edward Sterling wrote: > the pine needles (recommended in an earlier post) would leave a > tar residue over time, esp. under a slow burn. Funny, never thought about "tar residue". My smokers are all gummy and tarry-- looking at 100s of hives a day you gum up a smoker quickly. I often think of woodstove cresote when cleaning the gum out of my smoker. Some beekeepers have _one_ fuel they always use, others use whatever is available. I like to use the local material, but have caught it from fellow beekeepers/inspectors. " What do have burning in there now?" or "... that stinks... I'm working at the other end of the yard." Bailing twine is often treated with fungicide, maybe something to keep in mind, although I know some commercial beekeepers who swear by it. Adam ______________________________________ Adam Finkelstein adamf@vtaix.cc.vt.edu ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Apr 1995 08:50:32 GMT Reply-To: Gordon@apis.demon.co.uk Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Gordon L. Scott" Subject: Re: getting on list Comments: To: flatiron@cerf.net In message <9504030426.aa25953@punt2.demon.co.uk> flatiron@cerf.net writes: > I'd like to be included in your beekeepers mail-list. [ Sent direct & copied to the list.] Send a mail to listserv@uacsc2.albany.edu containing just the message: subscribe bee-l help Regards, -- Gordon Scott Gordon@apis.demon.co.uk Compuserve 100332,3310 Basingstoke Beekeeper Beekeeper@apis.demon.co.uk ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Apr 1995 07:08:00 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Eric Abell Subject: Re: Queen excluder..."honey excluder" ? In-Reply-To: <9504030437.AA115592@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca> On Sun, 2 Apr 1995, Edward Sterling wrote: > Hello friends, > > I'm just a backyard amateur, 2 hives...had up to 6 in Canada a few years ago. > I took a classroom course to get started, then a "beeyard" course later to > really > experience beekeeping (when the book says "shake the nuc into the hive", YOU > JUST > GOTTA DO IT FOR YOURSELF TO BELIEVE IT! :-) > > Anyway...subject line is the question...my "beeyard" instructor grumped at queen > excluders and said "they oughta be called 'honey excluders'...(grumble > grumble)." > > Can I solicit feedback from you all? Agree, disagree? > > When to use it? Special circumstances? I, too, was led to believe it was a honey excluder and in many situations that may be true. I started using excluders a few years ago and now cannot imaginine not using them. Excluders for me: - provide a management took to control queen location - save a great deal of time when pulling honey - prevent drips in Honey house because we have not had to examine combs for brood Perhaps we would get more honey if they were not used but our expenses would also be greater - they do save time. Related to this: How do people clean the excluders for the next season - or do you? I have a cut-down drum with provision below it for a propane torch. I boil the water, dip the excluder, and shake off the junk. I am not altogether happy with this method and would like to hear of others. Eric Abell email: eabell@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca Gibbons, AB, T0A 1N0 Canada ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Apr 1995 07:14:40 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Eric Abell Subject: Re: Smoke? In-Reply-To: <9504031202.AA89327@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca> > Since some fellows are discussing smoke producing techniques I > would really like to hear from people that have considerable > experience what is their favourite smoke producing agent? > > Or am I just asking something that is a standard? > I use burlap bags. Cut them into pieces about 10 x 10 inches (but size is only for convenience). We used to cut these with a large knife and found it both time consuming and hard on hands. We now use a table saw and the burlap cuts far better than you can even imagine. I was really afraid to try this for fear of the blade grabbing the sacking. Just use a fine tooth blade and try it. Eric Abell email: eabell@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca GGibbons, AB, T0A 1N0 Canada ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Apr 1995 09:45:16 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Michael Thigpen Subject: Bumble Bees I'm a relative newcomer to the list and do not yet have any bees, but I've been learning a great deal from your postings and enjoying the ride. Now I have a small situation that may require intervention. I have a small piece of rental property (5 units) in town, and last week I was informed by one of the tenants that bumble bees have "taken over" the garage there. When I checked this weekend, there were indeed quite a few buzzing around. I hate to disturb their activity, but the tenant is in a panic. Is there a way that I might "invite" them to shift their activity just a bit so that they'll not be near the tenants' vehicles? I am really concerned more for the safety of the bees than the tenants, as some of them (tenants) may panic and either start swatting or spraying poison. Any advice you can give will be appreciated. Michael R. Thigpen aa101015@midnet.csd.scarolina.edu "Words are, of course, the most powerful drug used by mankind." *Rudyard Kipling* ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Apr 1995 14:05:20 +0100 Reply-To: fmonaci@mailserver.idg.fi.cnr.it Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: fabio monaci Subject: Re: Smoke? In message Mon, 3 Apr 1995 08:24:58 +22300129, Adam Finkelstein writes: > Andreas Kasenides wrote: > >> Since some fellows are discussing smoke producing techniques I >> would really like to hear from people that have considerable >> experience what is their favourite smoke producing agent? >> > > Needles from _Pinus strobus_. > (White Pine) > Adam I agree: good smell easy ligthing and very cheap; sometimes mixed with needles of Douglas fir _Pseudotsuga mentiesi_ wich smell is very liked by bees. Many times my swarms choised Pseudotsuga may be for citronella oil smell, no-one experieced similar thing? Fabio Monaci C.N.R. Centro studio Genesi Classificazione Cartografia del Suolo P.zle delle Cascine 15 I-50144 Firenze Tel. ++ 39 (0)55 360517 Telefax ++ 39 (0)55 321148 E-MAIL fmonaci@csgccs.fi.cnr.it ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Apr 1995 08:18:46 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Subject: Re: Queen excluder..."honey excluder" ? In-Reply-To: <9504031326.AA18388@cuugnet.cuug.ab.ca> On Mon, 3 Apr 1995, Eric Abell wrote: > How do people clean the excluders for the next season - or do you? > > I have a cut-down drum with provision below it for a propane > torch. I boil the water, dip the excluder, and shake off the junk. I am > not altogether happy with this method and would like to hear of others. We seldom bother, but when they get clogged, we put as many as fit into a drum comfortably with water and submerge them in boiling water -- as you do. Allen W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper VE6CFK Rural Route One Swalwell Alberta Canada T0M 1Y0 Email: dicka@cuug.ab.ca or allend@internode.net Virtual Art Gallery: http://www.cuug.ab.ca:8001/~dicka __________________Why not drop by?____________________ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Apr 1995 10:13:11 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Kelley Rosenlund 904-392-5551 Subject: Where's the Queen & stuff? Hello, Got into Clarence (the Hive) this Saturday. Put in two new frames(I bought 8 frame's worth of hive & put in a 10 frame super), queen excluder, new super up top for my first batch of honey. Had my nephew & a friend over to watch so I ended up not using a veil[yikes!!]. Only got a mild sting on my finger. Many more questions, bear with me, the books I hhave read do not answer everything. 1. What is the longest time to keep the hive open? The temp was in the mid 60's. I looked and looked for the queen but could not find her and the bees were getting a little nervous (OK, I was the nervous one), so I closed the hive up before I got to look at every frame. I must have had it open over an hour. 2. I went into it again Sunday ( by the way, as per the smoker discussion I use pine needles and YES it does tar up the pot a lot) and went through each frame. Could not find the Queen. I saw larva in various stages and saw eggs and I saw capped brood. Somewhere I read that if the queen dies that a worker will start laying eggs but the brood will be all male. Is it a drone or a regular size worker that is a male? 3. I am starting to see the logic of nine vs 10 frames. What a job pulling some of those babies out. also there is one frame ( on the east side of hive) that is a plastic foundation and it has nothing on it but a couple clumps of wax. Could it be the plastic? Could it be its location? The frame above it has wax in it. 4. There are a lot of frames that have old black comb that is misshaped and hard. I am thinking of starting to swap it out and let the bees start a-new. Comments? 5. I placed a new super on top Saturday but there were almost no bees in it on Sunday. I got another body and put it on top of the new super and put my entrance feeder in there in hopes that it would lure the bees through the empty super. Any other ideas? I know it is a good practice to put a full super above the new one but I want to keep the new super as honey only. 6. How much smoke is still the big question? I am really trying not to were gloves so I can be gentle but I really want to minimize the getting stung part.( I have very sensitive skin...:)) God Bless, Kelley from the metropolis of Gainesville, Florida, USA... rosenlk@freenet.ufl.edu ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Apr 1995 15:37:08 GMT Reply-To: Gordon@apis.demon.co.uk Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Gordon L. Scott" Subject: Re: Informations Comments: To: susast@eco.unipv.it Note: The following copied to both originator and bee-l You wrote: > Send me informations about honeybees and bumble bees, pollination, honey > and related material. > Hi, Bee-L is a mailing list where we exchange ideas and information. I guess that you are not yet 'on the list' so I suggest you join us as there is much information here. There is no charge. Send a mail to listserv@uacsc2.albany.edu containing just the following two lines: subscribe bee-l help This will start the subscription process (you will later have to confirm) and will send you some help information. See you soon on bee-l Regards, -- Gordon Scott Gordon@apis.demon.co.uk Compuserve 100332,3310 Basingstoke Beekeeper Beekeeper@apis.demon.co.uk ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Apr 1995 15:48:06 GMT Reply-To: Gordon@apis.demon.co.uk Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Gordon L. Scott" Subject: Re: B.Mail Magazine Comments: To: DEINHORN@isnov.ab.umd.edu Note: reply sent to both bee-l and the originator. In message <1F7FD164E9D@isnov.ab.umd.edu> Dave Einhorn writes: > > *subscribe* sci.agriculture.beekeeping). This mailing list is > solid gold! > > > > Listserver address would be greatly appreciated. Is it > listserv@sci.agiculture.beekeeping ? Oops :-) bee-l is a mailing list (listserv@uacsc2.albany.edu) sci.agriculture.beekeeping is a usenet newsgroup. Mail me direct if you need further help on this. -- Gordon Scott Gordon@apis.demon.co.uk Compuserve 100332,3310 Basingstoke Beekeeper Beekeeper@apis.demon.co.uk ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Apr 1995 15:30:50 +0100 Reply-To: fmonaci@mailserver.idg.fi.cnr.it Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: fabio monaci Subject: Re: Smoke? In message Mon, 3 Apr 1995 08:04:07 -0400, Edward Sterling writes: > >>Since some fellows are discussing smoke producing techniques I >> would really like to hear from people that have considerable >> experience what is their favourite smoke producing agent? >> > Bailing twine from a local farm was the recommendation of my > "bee teacher." I have also heard that sumac (non-poisonous variety > please!) clusters work well. > > The bailing twine works fairly well, I am sure like anything else, > you have to be careful not to pack it in the smoker too tightly. > It produces a nice white smoke, no residue etc. I would wonder if > the pine needles (recommended in an earlier post) would leave a > tar residue over time, esp. under a slow burn. > > Ed Do you know scientific name of plant bailing twine? It would be useful for non-anglosaxon readers. rsvp Fabio Monaci C.N.R. Centro studio Genesi Classificazione Cartografia del Suolo P.zle delle Cascine 15 I-50144 Firenze Tel. ++ 39 (0)55 360517 Telefax ++ 39 (0)55 321148 E-MAIL fmonaci@csgccs.fi.cnr.it ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Apr 1995 16:25:04 +0100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Malcolm Roe Subject: Re: Bumble Bees In-Reply-To: from "Michael Thigpen" at Apr 3, 95 09:45:16 am Michael Thigpen asks: > > I was informed by one of the tenants that bumble bees have "taken over" > the garage there. When I checked this weekend, there were indeed quite a > few buzzing around. I hate to disturb their activity, but the tenant is > in a panic. Is there a way that I might "invite" them to shift their > activity just a bit so that they'll not be near the tenants' vehicles? For some years I used to be on a list of beekeepers held by my local authority, who are responsible for pest removal in our area. If someone called them with a bee problem they'd get one of the beekeepers on the list to go instead of their own staff. In my experiece at least half the call-outs were actually for bumble bees, not honey bees. What I used to do was try to encourage the householder to leave them alone. It helps to know something about bumble bees and their behaviour. Sometimes a little reassurance is all that's needed. You soon know whether that's going to work. If not, I'd try to remove the bumble bees alive. This is often quite easy. The nests are usually made in a ball of insulating material. I often used to to find them in bird boxes. A bird had nested there one year. The next year a bumble bee queen established herself in the old nest. Old mouse nests are another common place. My guess is that the bees are in a pile of old rubbish somewhere in the garage. If you're lucky the nest will be inside some sort of container. Wait until the evening when the bees have stopped flying and you can just gently remove the whole container after blocking the entrance or putting it inside something like a sack. Otherwise, you'll have to lift out the nest enclosed in it's insulating matter and put it in a box to remove. In this case I'd wear gloves. There's a lot to be said for wearing a veil as well although bumble bees are much less aggressive then honey bees. Finally you can establish the nest somewhere else. My favourite place was under my shed, which is raised about 10cm above ground level. I'd just put the nest into something like a small cardboard box with a hole cut for an entrance and push it under the shed. Then I could watch "my" bumble bees flying all summer! -- Malcolm Roe Phone : +44 1442 345104 Crosfield Electronics Ltd Fax : +44 1442 343000 Hemel Hempstead, Herts. HP2 7RH, UK E-mail : roe@crosfield.co.uk ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Apr 1995 17:04:51 GMT Reply-To: Gordon@apis.demon.co.uk Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Gordon L. Scott" Subject: Re: Bumble Bees Malcolm Roe writes: > Michael Thigpen asks: > > > > I was informed by one of the tenants that bumble bees have "taken over" > > the garage there. .... > > put it in a box to remove. In this case I'd wear gloves. There's a lot > to be said for wearing a veil as well although bumble bees are much less > aggressive then honey bees. I agree with all Malcolm has said. I too do this fairly often. Bumble bees often make a lot of noise considering how few bees there are, but they don't *often* sting. They do sometimes come out of the nest is something of a noisy rush though. I had occasion last year to take a nest before dusk when there were still a few bees out flying, so I invited the homeowner (who by then was fascinated): "If you feel like it, put any straglers into a ventilated jar and bring them to me -- I'll put them with the rest as they *do* need their numbers." Over the next four days he brought me about 40 bees in a dozen jars, so it seems likely that not all bumbles come home every night. BTW, this was a big gorilla of a guy who spent an hour or so each of those nights, sitting by their ex-nest with a small fishing net, just scooping them up. Definitely a softy at heart. Regards, -- Gordon Scott Gordon@apis.demon.co.uk Compuserve 100332,3310 Basingstoke Beekeeper Beekeeper@apis.demon.co.uk ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Apr 1995 18:32:35 +0300 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jean-Marie Van Dyck Subject: Washing material (was : queen excluder) On Mon, 3 Apr 1995 07:08:00 -0600 Eric Abell wrote ... ... > Perhaps we would get more honey if they were not used but our expenses > would also be greater - they do save time. I'm not sure there is any difference in honey crop > Related to this: > How do people clean the excluders for the next season - or do you? > I have a cut-down drum with provision below it for a propane > torch. I boil the water, dip the excluder, and shake off the junk. I am > not altogether happy with this method and would like to hear of others. The problem is to remove both wax _and_ propolis in one operation ! According with Brother Adam in his "Beekeeping Method" the only process to remove this both substances is to _heat_ in _alcaline medium_ Eric, you heated but in tap water and the results are poor, very poor. If you alcalinize the water : no more problem ... while boiling, wax is removed and float and the propolis is dissolved. We used this also to clean all the material from the hives : the frames after the steam removing of the wax, queen excluders, tops and bottoms, even the supers (our drum is a cubic one!) Attention alcali attacks painting ! As the NaOH method don't give us quite happiness we try some possibilities to alcalinize 1/ the use of SODIUM HYDROXIDE : it is the method of brother Adam : 500 g NaOH/ 100 lt of boiling water pay attention: use gloves and glasses (or goggles). The results are excellent but with this product the wood becomes rought and all painting is removed. 2/ the use of SODIUM SULFATE : 1 kg Na2SO4 / 100 lt of boiling water gives good results after a 10 min dipping. Remove floating wax before removing the material. 3/ the use of TRISODIUM PHOSPHATE : results idem as sulfate After such a treatment the material is really as _CLEAN_ as _NEW_ ! Rinse to remove the remaining products. Brother Adam described a second drum with boiling tap water where the material was dipped. We used a hose but is isn't the best. Seems this treatment very useful to keep a good sanitary state in the apiary. For this purpose, the best is NaOH ! I speaked about super (and painting) but for us it was not a problem because we dipped the treated super in heated microwax (140-150 dC) (treatment each 5 years or if foulbrood occurs). Hope this helps Jean-Marie Mon 3-APR-95 18:23 Local blooming informations ... Long. : 4deg 56' E - Lat. : 50deg 30' N - Alt. : 200 m - North sea : 200 km After a week of winter time ... the spring is there !!! full blooming of Salix Caprea .. first blooms of Dandelion ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Jean-Marie Van Dyck Fax +32 81 72 42 72 B.P. 102 email : jmvandyck@cc.fundp.ac.be B-5000 NAMUR(Belgium) Medical school - Biochemistry dept ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Apr 1995 10:44:58 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Subject: Why do bees cap Varroa? I was out yesterday unwrapping my bees and as often happens when in a solitary situation, my mind started working at all kinds of things. More on the bees later, but this question came up in relation to some ideas learned in a talk given by K. Delaplane. . . Apparently on of the methods that shows promise in dealing with varroa is to select bees that have a shorter capped period for the brood. Bees show some variability in this trait. Now everyone is thinking that a shorter capped period is tha same as a shorter total development time -- at least I was. And thus total development time could be used as an indicator, because it is much easier to monitor.) This has to be proven, but seems logical, unless some bees delay capping until later and/or the pupal time (only) is shorter. Some bees might also rest a while longer after pupating. I notice some bees emerge whiter (and thus less developed) than others. However I am wondering: why do bees cap cells with varroa in them? Do the varroa slip in *while* the bees are capping the brood? Bees tend to work in shifts at things like that and there would be opportunity for the little rascals to sneak in when no one is 'looking'. Or do bees just not notice the mites in there? Allen W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper VE6CFK Rural Route One Swalwell Alberta Canada T0M 1Y0 Email: dicka@cuug.ab.ca or allend@internode.net Virtual Art Gallery: http://www.cuug.ab.ca:8001/~dicka __________________Why not drop by?____________________ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Apr 1995 11:51:51 -500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Dan Buchsbaum Subject: Re: Queen excluder..."honey excluder" ? In-Reply-To: <9504022347.aa27463@blkbox.COM> I used a plastic queen excluder in 2 hives last year, and the bees refused to go up into my honey supers. After 2 months I figured I'd better take it off, and a month later the supers were full. I have since learned not to bother with it if there is a layer of honey on top of the brood seperating the nest and the honey supers. Maybe the plastic is "scratchy"? I wonder if wooden ones are better, or even necessary? - Cynthia in Houston, TX ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Apr 1995 10:51:02 MDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Dan Oetting Subject: Re: Queen excluder..."honey excluder" ? It's easy to melt the wax off a queen excluder by placing it a solar melter on a good sunny day. -- Dan Oetting ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Apr 1995 09:39:00 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Crawfords Electronics <0006173164@MCIMAIL.COM> Subject: Re: Sugar H2O/smokd > >A spray of sugar water also works well in place of smoke. I used this under >extremely dry conditions on property owned by someone who refused to let us use >smoke (experienced a pervious burn). Works o.k., better than canned smoke. >Smoke is prefered. I would caution against the use of sugar spray. It will work well during a good necter flow - BUT, the instant the flow is finished, the procedure will induce the most incredible robing... David Crawford Pinole, Ca 6173164@mcimail.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Apr 1995 11:34:34 MST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: TIM HAARMANN Subject: venom collection For research purposes, I am interested in collecting venom. Does anyone know the best way to collect venom from incoming foragers? I once heard of an electrically charged board, that when placed in front of the hive, causes foragers to sting it and in turn collects the venom. I have had bad luck finding any information on this subject. Does anyone have ideas or references? I went out and asked my bees for volunteers willing to donate some venom, but they showed little interest. Thanks Timo Haarmann Ecological Studies Team, Los Alamos National Laboratory HAARMANNT@eshmail.lanl.gov ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Apr 1995 07:13:06 -1000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Thomas W. Culliney" Subject: Re: Smoke producing agents In-Reply-To: <9504031208.AA24062@hinc.hawaii.gov> Here in Hawaii, we use just about anything that's handy. A non-native weed, known locally as pakalolo, produces a nice, mellow smoke, and is one of my favorites. Makes working the bees a very pleasant experience indeed. =============================================================== Thomas W. Culliney * Phone: (808) 973-9529 Hawaii Dept. of Agriculture * Facsimile: (808) 973-9533 Division of Plant Industry * E-mail: tcullin@hinc.hawaii.gov 1428 South King Street * Honolulu, Hawaii 96814 * U.S.A. * =============================================================== "...but in the minds of most men, the learned as well as the vulgar, the idea of the trifling nature of his pursuit is so strongly associated with that of the diminutive size of its objects, that an _Entomologist_ is synonymous with every thing futile and childish."--Kirby & Spence (1816) =============================================================== ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Apr 1995 09:49:00 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Paul van Westendorp 576-5600 Fax: 576-5652" Subject: Re: price of Apistan in Holland Andreas, Indeed, the price of Apistan seems very high particularly in some other countries (ie. other than Canada which appears among the cheapest). I am not privy to the methods used by pharmaceuticals to set prices and why these prices can differ greatly between countries, but lets not forget they are in business to make a profit. And of course, they wish to realize this profit as quickly as possible, especially with the prospect that their product may decline in efficacy over the next few years. I agree that it is most frustrating to have access to a different formulation of the same active ingredient (fluvalinate) at a fraction of the cost compared to the strip formulation. It is this enormous price difference that has tempted beekeepers to cook up their own recipes by dipping porous substrates in the diluted liquid fluvalinate formulation (Mavrik) and apply it to the bees. It is exactly this practise, all beekeepers should be worried about. The big problem with those 'home-made recipes' is that there is very little or no control (or knowledge, for that matter) about the delivery of appropriate dosage, rate of release, contamination, etc, etc. It is likely that those applications involve a high release of fluvalinate initially, followed by a prolonged period of declining release. Eventhough most of the adult mite population may have been wiped out initially, emerging mites at a later date together with the influx of adult mites from other apiaries, will be in the colony during the period of low fluvalinate release. Such sub-lethal environment will greatly stimulate the development of fluvalinate resistant strains. It is believed that the apistan-resistant varroa mites in Italy came about because of the widespread applications of those unauthorised formulations. Likewise, many beekeepers (especially commercial producers who have to look at labor costs) have gotten into the habit of putting in a Apistan strip in the fall and leave it in until spring. Colonies (and mites) are exposed to fluvalinate for at least 7 months and longer. Again, a practise asking for trouble! The big concern is that fluvalinate will become useless as an effective varroa control agent mush faster than necessary. So far, it has been a very effective, safe product to use. Without this tool, here in Canada we would only have formic acid left. Although we are making progress in developing more user-friendly, slow release formic acid application methods, it will be much harder for beekeepers to protect their beloved livestock from Varroa by only using formic acid. So, don't be tempted! Apply Apistan strips only when necessary (ie. after you tested for mites to determine infestation levels), and apply for the recommended time according to label and remove afterwards! Paul van Westendorp PVANWESTEN@galaxy.gov.bc.ca Provincial Apiarist British Columbia ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Apr 1995 14:39:21 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Timothy S. Sterrett" Subject: Re: Queen excluder..."honey excluder" ? In-Reply-To: <199504031706.NAA10421@locke.ccil.org> On Mon, 3 Apr 1995, Dan Oetting wrote: > It's easy to melt the wax off a queen excluder by placing it a solar melter > on a good sunny day. > -- Dan Oetting > Don't put a plastic queen excluder in a solar wax melter. It may melt! I tried to clean-up a super of round comb honey frames and melted them. Tim Sterrett tss@locke.ccil.org ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Apr 1995 15:02:36 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: George Clarkson/SC <70641.2067@COMPUSERVE.COM> Subject: How long for new queen to get going? I have a hive that lost its queen on March 9. They built queen cells immediately, so I left them to requeen themselves. On March 27 they swarmed. I caught the swarm and hived it. As of today, April 3, I can find no eggs in either the mother colony or the swarm. Has there been enough time for the virgin queens to mate and start laying? The weather has been clear and mild during the day for the last 2 weeks. I am wondering if should give them longer to start laying or go ahead and requeen. Thanks for any advice. George Clarkson 70641,2067@compuserve.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Apr 1995 17:12:02 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: TopThink@AOL.COM Subject: Stuff What do you have? ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Apr 1995 15:55:23 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Gregory F. Kendall" Subject: Re: Queen excluder..."honey excluder" ? In-Reply-To: <199504030448.AA17832@mail.crl.com> I got over 160 pounds out of 2 backyard hives, with excluders. For me, controlling where the brood goes is worth placing and replacing them. I'll continue to use them until somebody proves, with controlled studies published in a journal, that the term "honey excluder" is justifed. Until then, I'll call "honey excluder" a "superstition". ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Apr 1995 21:37:49 -0300 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Eunice D. Wonnacott" Subject: Re: nutra sweet >On Sat, 1 Apr 1995, Jack C. Turner wrote: >> I've feed nutra sweet for years - amassed a fortune from low >> cal honey. > >Did you ever actually test the honey to see if it was really low-cal, or >did you just assume that feeding the bees nutrasweet would product >low-cal honey? > >,Please note the date on which this note was written!!!!! Surely your April Fool joke didn't fool too many people???? Eunice Wonnacott wonnacot@bud.peinet..pe.ca ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Apr 1995 21:46:57 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Jack C. Turner" Subject: Re: Smoke producing agents In-Reply-To: <199504031721.NAA10827@pen1.pen.k12.va.us>; from "Thomas W. Culliney" at Apr 3, 95 7:13 am My daughter turns wood - various hardwoods; the only prerequisite being that the tree was felled for another reason. The rough turnings make a nice smoke. Jack Turner ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Apr 1995 22:35:26 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Brian Tassey Subject: Re: Queen excluder..."honey e... I've used excluders on large numbers of colonies and found them to work fine. They make management much easier. Some times when working with people that have limited experience (part-time help) it's the only way to go. Knowing when to super in the flow to provide a honey barrier is what I prefer. It all depends on the flow and your locale. I'd like to see a real study on this "tale" also. The smoke we have used for years is burlap. We buy it in 500 pound bales and it's just convenient and plentiful. We cut it on a saw or use a Grape Hook (l ike a linoleum knife). It's not a pleasant smelling mess but produces large volumes of white smoke. One thing on the smoke idea also is that the saying "Less is Best" really fits here. I've watched people do far more damage than good to themselves and the bees by over smoking. Remember we breathe it too. In a pinch I've burnt a sock or two and a few "old" cow chips (age is critical here). I would like to hear some quotes on honey prices from packers that some of you US and Canadian producers are receiving. I've just heard today that the ITC ruling for Chinese honey into the US was 150%. Is that true? Can anyone expand on that. I heard a quote of .56/lb for amber alfalfa and .63 for white grades from a CA beeman. Thanks for the tip on the excluder dip (another problem solved). Does anyone know how to get the bees to just put the honey in the barrel first (it would save alot of hassle and I'd like that problem solved)? Brian Tassey Kaykin@aol.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Apr 1995 22:50:23 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: David Childers Subject: Re: New Bees I have been a small backyard beekeeper for fifteen years and last year I lost my three hives to Varroa. I have order bees from Georga and wanted to know when I should use Apistan strips. I live in Roanoke,VA. Thanks for any advice you can give. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 4 Apr 1995 00:19:19 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Dave Green, Eastern Pollinator Newsletter" Subject: Re: Queen excluder..."honey e... ed@GPCC.ULTRANET.COM (Edward Sterling) says: >.......my "beeyard" instructor grumped at queen excluders and said "they oughta be called 'honey excluders'...(grumble grumble)." Allen Dick has a given a good rundown of principles that apply here, and I'll give a hearty "amen" to his comments, only adding: In areas with spotty, sporadic or extended weak flows (like SC coastal areas after the spring flow), if a hive is in three boxes, with a good (young) queen, and no excluder, you'll often arrive at fall with a powerful colony, three boxes of brood, and not a drop of honey. It can get real expensive to give hives ALL their winter feed, so I have to have thel bees in a single deep under an excluder by July 1, if not sooner. Pollinator@aol.com Dave Green ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 4 Apr 1995 00:19:21 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Dave Green, Eastern Pollinator Newsletter" Subject: Re: Smoke? kasenid@ZEUS.CC.UCY.AC.CY (Andreas Kasenides) asks: >>Since some fellows are discussing smoke producing techniques I would really like to hear from people that have considerable experience what is their favourite smoke producing agent? Burlap is my favorite, such as old tobacco sheets or peanut bags. It burns slow and cool, with a pleasant smell. Pine straw works in a pinch, but it burns too hot and fast. It does smell pleasant. Baling twine is used by many beekeepers. I hate it, but use it at times. It rarely goes out once you have the fire established, and it makes a lot of smoke, but it has to be one of the rankest smokes. I once had some baling twine that apparently hung in the cowbarn in front of the fly sprayer, and I think I did some permanant damage to my lungs from that pesticide soaked fuel. Rags are okay in a pinch, but make sure they are cotton, not any synthetics, and cut off any elastic first. Cotton bolls will work, as will spanish moss, if it is really dry. Pollinator@aol.com Dave Green SCarolina ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 4 Apr 1995 00:35:49 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Dave Green, Eastern Pollinator Newsletter" Subject: Re: How long for new queen to... 70641.2067@COMPUSERVE.COM (George Clarkson/SC) asks: >>On March 27 they swarmed. I caught the swarm and hived it. As of today, April 3, I can find no eggs in either the mother colony or the swarm. Has there been enough time for the virgin queens to mate and start laying? The weather has been clear and mild during the day for the last 2 weeks. I am wondering if should give them longer to start laying or go ahead and requeen. Probably not enough time, yet: Sometimes it seems like forever for the new queen to get going. As insurance you might give them a frame or two of brood. If this has some eggs, it gives them another chance, in case the mating failed. If there is a virgin queen, it would be hard to get them to accept an introduced queen. By the time you can be certain there is no queen, you have all old bees which are ugly to work, and not likely to accept a queen. You can then best use this hive as a super on a good hive. Or, if you really must reestablish them, give them two or three frames of sealed brood, along with the queen, so they'll have young bees to help the queen get established. Always, you are ahead of the game, whenever you can prevent swarming. Of course, sometimes the bees will not cooperate. Dave Green, PO Box 1215, Hemingway, SC 29554 Pollinator@aol.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 4 Apr 1995 00:20:35 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: marion ellis Subject: Re: call me Comments: To: BEE-L%ALBNYVM1.BITNET@UBVM.cc.buffalo.edu In-Reply-To: <9503160235.AA21753@unlinfo.unl.edu> from "Keith S. Delaplane" at Mar 15, 95 05:06:19 pm Keith, I received some AAPA records from Tom today. I still do not have membership records or the checking account. I would like to talk to you about your plans, internal review results, etc... I will be in my office every day this week. The best time to call is 8-10 AM. If this will not work, email me a time to call you. I have initiated inquiry about a listserv only available to AAPA members on our department's server. I really like the idea of using it to get more members actively involved. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Marion D. Ellis Assistant Professor and * * University of Nebraska Extension Apiculture Specialist * * Department of Entomology email: mellis@unlinfo.unl.edu * * P.O. Box 830816 Phone: 402-472-2125 * * Lincoln, NE 68583-0816 Fax: 402-472-4687 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 4 Apr 1995 01:29:32 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Salemson Subject: B-Mail In-Reply-To: <9504040404.AA02333@merlin.nando.net> Hi, I have seen B-Mail mentioned several times, but haven't any idea what it is or how to subscribe. Would a knowledgable soul please post the relevant information to the list? Thanks! Dan Salemson Raleigh, North Carolina ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 4 Apr 1995 02:18:47 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Gordon D. Hayes" Subject: Re: Where's the Queen & stuff? >1. What is the longest time to keep the hive open? The temp was in the mid >60's. ... I must have had it open over an hour. Don't leave it open any longer than necessary. > >2. I went into it again Sunday Could not find the Queen. I saw larva in various stages >and saweggs and I saw capped brood. Somewhere I read that if the queen dies that a >worker will start laying eggs but the brood will be all male. Is it a drone >or a regular size worker that is a male? The biggest mistake that new beekeepers make (I was told) is to over manipulate the hive. You saw the various stages of larvae. That is usually a good indicator of a healthy hive. Drones are the males. ALL the workers are female. >4. There are a lot of frames that have old black comb that is misshaped and >hard. I am thinking of starting to swap it out and let the bees start >a-new. Comments? Definately. I read an article lately in one of the bee magazines (American Bee Journal or Bee Culture) that said definately replace the old black comb. Your bees will thank you. > >5. I placed a new super on top Saturday but there were almost no bees in it >on Sunday. Unless there is a honey flow going on, they will not do much in the super. >6. I am really trying not to were gloves so I can be gentle but I really want to >minimize the getting stung part.( I have very sensitive skin...:)) I found that I personally got stung more wearing gloves than when I didn't. Guess I worked more carefully. :) Here's to a bountiful crop! gh ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 4 Apr 1995 08:28:28 GMT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "DR ANDY EVANS , SAC EDINBURGH" Subject: Natural products for the control of varroa If this subject has been discussed on Bee-L already, then apologies but I'm new to this list so any info would be useful. Is there anybody working on, or has knowledge of research into natural products for the control of varroa mites. e.g. any work using neem or azadirachtin for example. Any info would be welcome as would responses from anybody interested in doing this sort of research. Dr Andy Evans SAC, West Mains Road, Edinburgh UK Tel +44 131 667 1041 Fax +44 131 667 2601 Email ESA041@ed.sac.ac.uk ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 4 Apr 1995 04:42:10 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Subject: More Queen excluder tricks Still on the subject of queen excluders: Once bees get used to going into a super, a queen excluder placed under will not stop them going up. So if you are not too experienced with bees and yet want to keep the queen down, you can put the super on without an excluder, then after the bees are working well in it, 1. place an excluder under, then check for eggs in a few days. If there are eggs, the queen will likely be nearby and can be placed below easily. Otherwise, you are okay and have a brood-free super. In the case there are eggs, the super will be free of brood in 3 weeks after the queen is removed. OR 2. shake or brush (or whatever) all or most of the bees off the frames of the super and replace the super over the new excluder. The bees (sans queen) will return to the super thru the excluder in minutes. If 2 (above) is done at a time when the super is ready to extract anyhow, a new super in its plce will work fine. Once the bees have learned their new address upstairs, they will run right back up -- excluder or no excluder. This knowledge is handy for making nucs (splits): an empty super receives frames from the (double) brood nests that are selected for the new split, after the bees are lightly shaken off in front of the hive and frames are quickly eyeballed for a queen. They are replaced by empty brood frames from the super. Any feed frames from the new box go into the parent hive and are replaced with warm, 'conditioned' frames of feed from the parent hive. The nuc (in the standard super) is then placed above an excluder on the two broods of an existing well-poulated hive and left until the bees come back up (sans queen). The split can then be removed and given a queen or cell, or left on the hive several days, if necessary. On removal, two such splits can be stacked to make a strong split, or each used separately for increase. There is a lot more to it than I am willing to write right now, but experienced beekeepers can save time and make good splits that can be left until needed (as long as the open brood doesn't all get sealed in the meantime). Frames of brood can be pulled from several hives to make one split, if necessary. My policy early in the season is usually to only take one or two frames of brood per hive. At that time, there need to be three or preferably four frames of brood and bees in the split to be viable 100% of the time. I choose the frames that have medium size patches of brood in varying stages and try to include some pollen and feed as well. Full frames of brood may not be properly covered by the bees after being taken away, so 4 frames with 8 inch circles of brood are better than the same area on two frames. Brood must not be separated by feed frames. Try to make up a box that looks like the bees would have done it themselves. After all, they are our teachers. Allen W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper VE6CFK Rural Route One Swalwell Alberta Canada T0M 1Y0 Email: dicka@cuug.ab.ca or allend@internode.net Virtual Art Gallery: http://www.cuug.ab.ca:8001/~dicka __________________Why not drop by?____________________ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 4 Apr 1995 13:07:15 +0100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "M.Westby" Subject: Alan Dick's web page Dear Alan and everyone else I just tried to contact your personal webpage using the URL in your signature - you may like to know that it doesn't work (at least from Sheffield!) ... What *does* work is: http://www.cuug.ab.ca:8001/~dicka/ note ~(tilde)dicka *not* %(percent)dicka and there is a trailing slash The National Honeyboard Database is very interesting, thanks Max ||| (@ @) ---------------------------------------------ooOo-( )-oOoo----- Max Westby (Among other things a Sheffield Beekeeper) South Yorkshire Beekeepers Association BBKA apiary reg: JQ34 Phone (Home): +44 (0)114 236 1038 Fax: +44 (0)114 276 6515 e-mail: m.westby@sheffield.ac.uk World Wide Web Site: http://www2.shef.ac.uk/default.html --------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 4 Apr 1995 14:12:52 +0300 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jean-Marie Van Dyck Subject: Price of Apistan ... again Hi Bee-liners ! [04-Apr-95 14:00] Hugo and Andreas last week ... > Since I started the Apistan price query I suppose I should give the > price I payed also and revise Hugo's average: > > US$: > > CYPRUS( Andreas Kasenides): 21 > BELGIUM ( Hugo Thone): 21 > CANADA (Kerry Clark): 16 > FINLAND (Seppo Korpela): 45 > HOLLAND (Hugo Veerkamp): 23 > > A new mean of $25.2. ...[cut] Seems I must add my $.02 about the Apistan prices : In Belgium we have 2 (two) prices for the Apistan strips the first is a price accorded by the apicultural associations at its members and it is the price described by Hugo : about $21 by a 10 strips package. I think there is a federal (govermental) or european participation in it ! the second is a public price at the beekeeping shops which is higher : for one package of 10 strips : BEF 995.- (with VAT 12%) = about $32 Thus ... Regards Jean-Marie ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 4 Apr 1995 13:28:46 +0100 Reply-To: IBRA@cardiff.ac.uk Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Dr Pamela Munn Subject: Re: B-Mail In-Reply-To: from "Salemson" at Apr 4, 95 01:29:32 am B.mail's popularity is growing month by month and we at IBRA would like to say that we appreciate your feedback. B.mail is a monthly newsletter edited by Andrew Matheson, IBRA's director and is only available on the internet - its not published in printed form. We distribute it on several bee lists (Bee-L, Socinst, PolPal and via Hugo Veerkamp on BEENET in Europe). If you want a personal copy sent to you, we can add your e.mail address to our broadcast list. If you missed the first few issues of the year I can send them on request. If you need to know more about B.mail or IBRA, just contact IBRA at the follwing address: ibra@cardiff.ac.uk > Hi, > > I have seen B-Mail mentioned several times, but haven't any idea what it > is or how to subscribe. Would a knowledgable soul please post the > relevant information to the list? > > Thanks! > > Dan Salemson > Raleigh, North Carolina > > ************************************************************** * Dr Pamela Munn * * Editor of Bee World, Associate Editor of J. Apic. Res. * *============================================================* * E.mail : IBRA@Cardiff.AC.UK | Mail : IBRA * * Phone : (+44) 1222 372 409 | 18 North Road * * Fax : (+44) 1222 665 522 | Cardiff CF1 3DY * * | UK * *============================================================* * If your mail is for someone else in IBRA I will pass it on * ************************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 4 Apr 1995 13:36:16 +0100 Reply-To: IBRA@cardiff.ac.uk Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Dr Pamela Munn Subject: Re: Natural products for the control of varroa In-Reply-To: from "DR ANDY EVANS , SAC EDINBURGH" at Apr 4, 95 08:28:28 am IBRA has recently published a book called New perspectives on varroa which covers bio- and non-chemical control as well as other issues such as resistance to chemicals, breeding toleratnt bees etc. If you are interested contact me directly at IBRA: ibra@cardiff.ac.uk > If this subject has been discussed on Bee-L already, then apologies but I'm new > to this list so any info would be useful. > Is there anybody working on, or has knowledge of research into natural products > for the control of varroa mites. e.g. any work using neem or azadirachtin for > example. > > Any info would be welcome as would responses from anybody interested in doing > this sort of research. > > Dr Andy Evans > SAC, > West Mains Road, > Edinburgh > UK > > Tel +44 131 667 1041 > Fax +44 131 667 2601 > Email ESA041@ed.sac.ac.uk > ************************************************************** * Dr Pamela Munn * * Editor of Bee World, Associate Editor of J. Apic. Res. * *============================================================* * E.mail : IBRA@Cardiff.AC.UK | Mail : IBRA * * Phone : (+44) 1222 372 409 | 18 North Road * * Fax : (+44) 1222 665 522 | Cardiff CF1 3DY * * | UK * *============================================================* * If your mail is for someone else in IBRA I will pass it on * ************************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 4 Apr 1995 12:49:27 GMT Reply-To: Gordon@apis.demon.co.uk Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Gordon L. Scott" Subject: Re: Smoke Hi, Whilst I usually use hessian (burlap?) sacking, I also use other materials when available, particularly pine needles. There are other materials I've heard used, but I haven't yet tried them all myself (honest). I understand that in 'the old days' before some laws changed, hemp (Marijuana) was considered an excellent smoker fuel. Really happy bees I guess. And/or a really relaxed beekeeper. Several types of mushroom have been dried & used. I know the Birch Bracket fungus is amongst them (don't have the sci name to hand) but I'm not sure how many other mushrooms are o.k.. The edible ones presumably, and the non-toxic but not tasty ones like the B.B. above. Many people in the UK use corrugated cardboard, for which a startling number actually pay (?) for neat little smoker-sized rolls of the stuff. Some of this card in the 'free' form of boxes has been fireproofed though. Partially dried grass works ok, but it sometimes sparks a bit which is definitely not so good. Regards, -- Gordon Scott Gordon@apis.demon.co.uk Compuserve 100332,3310 Basingstoke Beekeeper Beekeeper@apis.demon.co.uk ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 4 Apr 1995 07:35:32 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Eric Abell Subject: Re: Where's the Queen & stuff? In-Reply-To: <9504031436.AA76288@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca> On Mon, 3 Apr 1995, Kelley Rosenlund 904-392-5551 wrote: > Hello, > Got into Clarence (the Hive) this Saturday. Put in two new frames(I > bought 8 frame's worth of hive & put in a 10 frame super), queen excluder, > new super up top for my first batch of honey. Had my nephew & a friend over > to watch so I ended up not using a veil[yikes!!]. Only got a mild sting on > my finger. Many more questions, bear with me, the books I hhave read do not > answer everything. Well done. I am sure there will be many replies to your message and here is one opinion. My climate in Northern Alberta is far different from yours so keep this in mind. By the way - after a few days above feezing at night it droppped to -10 degrees C. and daytime highs will be below freezing. I was planning on unwrapping bees this week - guess not! > > 1. What is the longest time to keep the hive open? The temp was in the mid > 60's. I looked and looked for the queen but could not find her and the bees > were getting a little nervous (OK, I was the nervous one), so I closed the > hive up before I got to look at every frame. I must have had it open over > an hour. I you are gentle and don't stir up the bees I see nothing wrong with this. If the hive is on the stand and the entrance is available the bees will go about their chores anyway. > > 2. I went into it again Sunday ( by the way, as per the smoker discussion I > use pine needles and YES it does tar up the pot a lot) and went through > each frame. Could not find the Queen. I saw larva in various stages and saw > eggs and I saw capped brood. Somewhere I read that if the queen dies that a > worker will start laying eggs but the brood will be all male. Is it a drone > or a regular size worker that is a male? > I very seldom look for a Queen. If I see one what do I know? - that there is a queen in the hive. That information is of little use. However, if I examine the brood in all stages I know: - is there someone laying eggs and how many - what is the relation between the quantity brood at different states? - this is a clue to past history. - if the brood is all or nearly all drones I know that someone(Queen or otherwise) is a drone layer Laying workers - yes it happens and when it does: - eggs often along sides of cell rather than end. - often many (dozens) of eggs in one cell - if allowed to develop - only drones are produced. - laying patters is very ragged. > 3. I am starting to see the logic of nine vs 10 frames. What a job pulling > some of those babies out. also there is one frame ( on the east side of > hive) that is a plastic foundation and it has nothing on it but a couple > clumps of wax. Could it be the plastic? Could it be its location? The frame > above it has wax in it. > Pull out the 1st of 2nd frame from any edge first. Do not replace it until you are ready to close up. Now additional frames can be moved sideways and removed easily. Put that plastic frame in centre of brood nest and see what happens. Bet they draw it out quickly. > 4. There are a lot of frames that have old black comb that is misshaped and > hard. I am thinking of starting to swap it out and let the bees start > a-new. Comments? > If there are lots of drone cells why not use it for honey storage. > 5. I placed a new super on top Saturday but there were almost no bees in it > on Sunday. I got another body and put it on top of the new super and put my > entrance feeder in there in hopes that it would lure the bees through the > empty super. Any other ideas? I know it is a good practice to put a full > super above the new one but I want to keep the new super as honey only. > You may be too impatient or they may simply not be ready for a new super. Bye the way does 'new' mean new foundation? If you lift a frame of brood up to the 'new' super you will likely get bees up there very quickly. > 6. How much smoke is still the big question? I am really trying not to were > gloves so I can be gentle but I really want to minimize the getting stung > part.( I have very sensitive skin...:)) > Enough to do the job. If they become agitated or agressive you are either using too much or too litt.e - some help eh! I find a little smoke frequently works best. Equally important - be gentle. Eric Abell Gibbons, Alberta eabell@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 4 Apr 1995 10:34:55 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Gerard Worrell Subject: Re: Smoke? Comments: To: fabio monaci In-Reply-To: <199504031459.KAA19149@cbl.umd.edu> On Mon, 3 Apr 1995, fabio monaci wrote: > In message Mon, 3 Apr 1995 08:04:07 -0400, > Edward Sterling writes: > > > > > Bailing twine from a local farm was the recommendation of my > > "bee teacher." I have also heard that sumac (non-poisonous variety > > please!) clusters work well. > > > > The bailing twine works fairly well, I am sure like anything else, > > you have to be careful not to pack it in the smoker too tightly. > > It produces a nice white smoke, no residue etc. I would wonder if > > the pine needles (recommended in an earlier post) would leave a > > tar residue over time, esp. under a slow burn. > > > > Ed > Do you know scientific name of plant bailing twine? It would be useful for > non-anglosaxon readers. > rsvp > Fabio Monaci > C.N.R. Centro studio Genesi Classificazione Cartografia del Suolo > P.zle delle Cascine 15 > I-50144 Firenze > Tel. ++ 39 (0)55 360517 Telefax ++ 39 (0)55 321148 > E-MAIL fmonaci@csgccs.fi.cnr.it > Baling twine is the hemp twine used to tie together bales of hay or straw. Some folks are also using polypropylene twine which doesn't rot as easily as the hemp. Don't use the poly twine in your smoker! I also use baling twine because of the quantity of hay used on the farm. Jerry Worrell, Dunkirk,MD,USA ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 4 Apr 1995 08:39:27 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Subject: Re: Alan Dick's web page In-Reply-To: <9504041211.AA14410@cuugnet.cuug.ab.ca> On Tue, 4 Apr 1995, M.Westby wrote: > Dear Alan and everyone else > > I just tried to contact your personal webpage using the URL in your > signature - you may like to know that it doesn't work (at least from > Sheffield!) ... > > What *does* work is: > > http://www.cuug.ab.ca:8001/~dicka/ Right, some brousers (Mosaic) semm to need a trailing slash sometimes; others like Netscape don't. I just accessed it with 'lynx' and had no problem with it as always written in my sig. (below) but I see I need a link that a text-only brouser can use. > note ~(tilde)dicka *not* %(percent)dicka and there is a trailing slash I don't know where the '%dicka' idea came from, unless I made a typo in my post. If so, sorry, everyone. > The National Honeyboard Database is very interesting, thanks You're welcome. I hope anyone who wants to use it goes to take a look and downloads it. I'll leave it there a while, but my art gallery is eating up a lot of disk storage and I am running out of space. W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper VE6CFK Rural Route One Swalwell Alberta Canada T0M 1Y0 Email: dicka@cuug.ab.ca or allend@internode.net Virtual Art Gallery: http://www.cuug.ab.ca:8001/~dicka __________________Why not drop by?____________________ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 4 Apr 1995 10:41:36 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: WILLIAM G LORD Subject: Re: Queen excluder..."honey e... In-Reply-To: <9504040519.AA04514@bigbad.ces.ncsu.edu> from "Dave Green, Eastern Pollinator Newsletter" at Apr 4, 95 00:19:19 am I have to second Dave's comments. By and large, the honey flow cuts off around June 1 in central North Carolina. We may get the odd sporadic flow later, but nothing you can count on until fall aster blooms. A queen excluder is a honey saver in this case, excluding the queen from the honey super. As Dave says, if you don't use an excluder, you will be feeding all your winter stores from a Dixie Crystals bag. I don't use them during the flow, as it is short and intense, but I put them on during the honey pulling operation. I use fume boards, and the queen is usually driven down out of the honey super by the fumes and I slip the excluder in right after pulling of the supers. Then its off to the cucumber fields. Bill Lord Louisburg, N.C.> >ed@GPCC.ULTRANET.COM (Edward Sterling) says: >>.......my "beeyard" instructor grumped at queen excluders and said "they >oughta be called 'honey excluders'...(grumble grumble)." > >Allen Dick has a given a good rundown of principles that apply here, and I'll >give a hearty "amen" to his comments, only adding: > >In areas with spotty, sporadic or extended weak flows (like SC coastal areas >after the spring flow), if a hive is in three boxes, with a good (young) >queen, and no excluder, you'll often arrive at fall with a powerful colony, >three boxes of brood, and not a drop of honey. It can get real expensive to >give hives ALL their winter feed, so I have to have thel bees in a single >deep under an excluder by July 1, if not sooner. > >Pollinator@aol.com Dave Green > -- WILLIAM G LORD E-Mail : wglord@franklin Internet: wglord@franklin.ces.ncsu.edu Phone : 9194963344 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 4 Apr 1995 18:04:08 +0300 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jean-Marie Van Dyck Subject: Spaying water (was: Sugar H2O/smoke) ReBonjour Bee-lovers, Someone (I lost his/her name) suggests ... >>A spray of sugar water also works well in place of smoke. I used this under >>extremely dry conditions on property owned by someone who refused to let us use >>smoke (experienced a pervious burn). Works o.k., better than canned smoke. >>Smoke is prefered. David Crawford contests : don't do that ... <6173164@mcimail.com> >I would caution against the use of sugar spray. It will work well during a >good necter flow - BUT, the instant the flow is finished, the procedure >will induce the most incredible robing... Seems _pure water_ gets no problem and is really useful to weaken some vicious bees ... 1. spray first on the top of the frames 2. immediately on the _both_ sides of the frame you are inspecting 3. before laying the bottle : spray on the 2 sides the frames in the opened hole Hope this helps ! Jean-Marie Local blooming informations ... Long. : 4deg 56' E - Lat. : 50deg 30' N - Alt. : 200 m - North sea : 200 km First capped drone brood in some view frames of my production hives : About 8 days earlier than last year ... Yesterday, I saw half of the queens of these hives laying in this frame : fascinating to see your own queens laying quietly from a cell to another ... ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Jean-Marie Van Dyck Fax +32 81 72 42 72 B.P. 102 email : jmvandyck@quick.cc.fundp.ac.be B-5000 NAMUR(Belgium) Medical school - Biochemistry dept ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 4 Apr 1995 11:09:57 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Subject: Re: Spaying water (was: Sugar H2O/smoke) In-Reply-To: <9504041612.AA31946@cuugnet.cuug.ab.ca> > Seems _pure water_ gets no problem and is really useful to weaken some > vicious bees ... > 1. spray first on the top of the frames > 2. immediately on the _both_ sides of the frame you are inspecting > 3. before laying the bottle : spray on the 2 sides the frames in the > opened hole I would think that unless one is very careful, open brood could easily be killed with either water or syrup. We have noticed that young brood sometimes disappears after simply being looked at, even when handled carefully. Careless shaking of frames and exposure to sun, wind, etc. for more than an instant can result in loss of brood. Any drops of water or syrup landing in a cell might upset the balance in the cell and result in loss of a larva. Any mist used should be *very* fine, I would think, and I would advise marking any brood sprayed and a checkup several days later to see if any loss has resulted, before adopting this technique without reserve. Allen W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper VE6CFK Rural Route One Swalwell Alberta Canada T0M 1Y0 Email: dicka@cuug.ab.ca or allend@internode.net Virtual Art Gallery: http://www.cuug.ab.ca:8001/~dicka __________________Why not drop by?____________________ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 4 Apr 1995 15:35:01 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Aaron Morris Subject: 8 cents worth Comments: To: bee-l@ALBANY.BITNET I get BEE-L in digest form, so I'll add 8 cents worth here (2 cents worth on four questions). Favorite smoker material: cedar wood chips! A bag at the local feed store runs $10 and lasts an entire season. It's an unnecessary expense, but they work well and smell wonderful! Creosote in the smoker can be burned off by leaving the top open and pumping the bellows. > (World price average for Apistan)... > > A new mean of $25.2. > I stick though to my original assumption that this is "too high" > since I can buy a bottle of Mavrik (same ingredient) of 250ml 100% > (??) fluvalinate for around $12 and make approximately 2500ml of 10% > mixture in which I can soak tons of porous material in it. > Anybody know why the price is so high? > Because the producer has a monopoly on the only approved treatment (in the States) for a scourge in the industry and consumers will pay the price! As noted many times in this list, although queries to the contrary persist, misuse of Apistan and Mavrik IS DEFINITELY, BEYOND A SHADOW OF A DOUBT, leading to fluvalinate resistant strains of varroa! Yes, Apistan is expensive. I personally dislike dealing with monopolies, but I am glad to have a product that works against varroa and I feel obligated to my fellow beekeepers to use the product as directed, even if it means trudging out to my hives in four foot snowdrifts to remove the strips at the proper time. Leaving strips in all winter will result in fluvalinate being absorbed into the comb and low concentrations of fluvalinate will be present after the strips are removed. It is this low concentration that leads to the fluvalinate resistance build up in mites. The fact that we read the postings on this list attests to the fact that we are able to read the instructions on the strips' packaging. As the Nike commercial says, Just do it! >-- End of Soapbox Tirade --< > Subject: Re: Queen excluder..."honey excluder" ? As are most things in life, it's a trade off. Using queen excluders guarantees that the queen will not be in your honey supers. This is very convenient at harvest time. The trade off is that you may not realize as large a harvest as you may have with no excluder. As a hobbiest with more honey than I can use, the convenience far outweighs the lesser crop concerns. If I were in this for the money/honey, I may feel differently. This discussion would not be complete if it did not compare and contrast the different queen excluders on the market. Plastic excluders are cheap, usually get gummed up with propolis, get glued onto the top of the brood chamber frames, and are a general PITA. Wood bound wire excluders are superior to the plastic excluder, as they won't be glued to the top of the brood chamber. But due to the extra space created by the wooden frame around the wire excluder, they tend to promote excessive burr comb between the brood and honey super, and when it comes time to remove them, there is a real mess to clean up both on top of the brood chamber and on the bottom of the honey super. Metal bound excluders offer the best of both plastic and wood bound excluders. They are rigid, so they don't lie directly on the tops of the brood frames. They preserve the bee space between the brood box and honey super, so burr comb is of minimal impact. They also hold up to heat, making cleanup quick and easy by putting them inside a solar wax melter on a sunny day. If one trades in honey production for the convenience of queen excluders, I'd recommend the metal bound excluders. I use them on all my hives. > >-----------------------------< > > Date: Mon, 3 Apr 1995 10:44:58 -0600 > From: Allen Dick > Subject: Why do bees cap Varroa? > I don't have references in my office, so I'm doing this one from memory, which has been known to fail me. I believe the life cycle of varroa is such that the adults lay eggs in bee cells while the cells are capped. The adult mites are attached to the emerging bee, so when the queen lays an egg in the vacant cell there are no mites in there, only varroa eggs. The development time for the bee and varroa coincide such that when the cell is capped the varroa is at a juvenile stage and may not be noticeable to the bees capping the cell. It is during the bee's capped pupal phase that the varroa reaches its mature reproductive stage, leaving behind its progeny to prey on the next generation of bee. Exact timing details are missing, but this is the jist of it. A shorter capping period would not be as accommodating to the varroa life cycle because the varroa would not have as much of an opportunity to mature and reproduce before the bee emerges. Hopefully breeders will make progress towards this goal while conscientious beekeepers are using chemical controls in the proper manner to keep the mites at bay. Aaron Morris - I think, therefore I bee! Actually I threw in more than 8 cents worth, but you should always give the customer more than they ask for ;) ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Apr 1995 17:04:06 GMT Reply-To: ibra@matheson.demon.co.uk Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: ibra Subject: Re: B.Mail Magazine In your message dated Saturday 1, April 1995 Kevin Millican wrote : > A friend of mine is very interested in seeing the contents of > your electronic magazine - could you send me a copy or a > selection of pages so that he can see the type of content > before investing cash and time in a modem and account etc. ? This magazine is archived for us by Adam Finkelstein (adamf@vtaix.cc.vt.edu), so you should be able to obtain 'backcopies' directly. Info on how to do that from Adam or in the beekeeping FAQ. Andrew -- ************************************************************************** * From Andrew Matheson, Director, International Bee Research Association * * ibra@matheson.demon.co.uk * * * * Any replies to this message will be read only by me. If you want to * * leave a message for anyone else in IBRA, or one which will be handled * * in my absence, please contact ibra@cardiff.ac.uk * * * * IBRA, 18 North Road, Cardiff CF1 3DY, UK * * Fax (+44) 1222-665522 Telephone (+44) 1222-37209 * ************************************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 4 Apr 1995 17:37:27 -0700 Reply-To: uj296@freenet.victoria.bc.ca Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Franjo Goluza Subject: Re: 8 cents worth i would also like to obtain Bee=L in digest form. How do I do this? Thanks, -- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 4 Apr 1995 18:28:35 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Darlene Scribilo Subject: venom collection Comments: To: dgscribi@system6.lcs.gov.bc.ca In-Reply-To: I'm glad to see the interest there is in bee venom other than getting a shot of it unexpectedly when tending the hive. It has been my experience that the best source of bee venom information, including books and venom collection devices is through Apitronic Services in Calgary, Alberta Canada. Apitronic Services sells honeybee venom and bee venom collector devices for one, 10, 20 and 40 hives. The VC Starter Kit is designed with one collector frame and is recommended for beekeepers, beekeeper training schools, researchers and manufacturers of homeopathic preparations. It is available for approx. $320 U.S.. The publications available include: Review of Bee Venom Collecting and More. 44 pages. $9.95 U.S. The 3rd edition is currently in print. Bee Venom Collector Devices.20 pages. $4.95 U.S. Bee Venom: Exploring the Healing Power. 80 pages. ISBN 0-9697654-0-1. $9.95 U.S. and, what every bee keeper and non beekeeper exposed to bees and wasps should have, First Aid for Bee and Wasp Stings. 32 pages. ISBN 0-9697654-1-X. $8.95 U.S. I think these prices include shipping and handling. The bee venom collector devices and publications are available through Michael Simics 204-1331 15th Ave., S.W. Calgary, Alberta Canada Phone/Fax (403) 541-1877 Good Luck Darlene dgscribi@system6.lcs.gov.bc.ca ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 4 Apr 1995 19:41:00 GMT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Andy Nachbaur Organization: Wild Bee's BBS Subject: Price of Apistan and more... SOME California retail FOB prices on chemicals used by beekeepers. All prices are cash US $, and do go up and down depending on the supplier. These are the list prices from DADANT & Son's Fresno, CA. Apistan 10 to a pk 18.95 extended 1.90 100 to a pk 149.50 1.50 Menthol 12 to a pk 29.75 18 or more cartons of 12- 28.30 bulk 55# 750.00 Terramycin 6.4 oz depending on quantities 4.05- 3.75 Bee-Go 5 gal 205.00 Fumidil-B 9 1/2 grams case lots 54.00 In California a permit is required to buy and use Apistan and reports of use must be filed with local Agricultural Commissioner. There are other products being used out side of the legal ones. Some beekeepers have found a back door source of chemically impregnated strips by the mile. You cut them to size yourself. For commercial bee- keeping operations that have very small margin's of profit it is easy to see why it is necessary sometime's to chose between bread on the table and high priced formulations of minute amounts of chemicals and making one's own remedy outside the law. As bad as that may be with all the risks, I wonder if we would ever have any legal treatments if some beekeepers had not worked outside of the system. Beekeepers in California have spent tens of thousands of dollars and worked years within the system to get a product registered for AFB treatment that may be far superior then TM or anything else, and has other potential as it may cause the brood cycle to also be accelerated by one day when used in bee diets. It still is not registered for use for treating bees. This "silver" bullet has no big profit potential for the manufacture or formulator so may never be legal under our regulatory system that deals the short had to the small and weak and rewards those who spend the most on PR. ttul Andy- (C)Permission to reproduce, granted. Opinions are not necessarily facts. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 4 Apr 1995 13:58:48 GMT Reply-To: Gordon@apis.demon.co.uk Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Gordon L. Scott" Subject: Re: Price of Apistan ... again Jean-Marie Vandyck wrote: > > In Belgium we have 2 (two) prices for the Apistan strips > ... > and it is the price described by Hugo : about $21 by a 10 strips package. > ... > one package of 10 strips : BEF 995.- (with VAT 12%) = about $32 Aren't those prices for 20 strips not 10? -- Gordon Scott Gordon@apis.demon.co.uk Compuserve 100332,3310 Basingstoke Beekeeper Beekeeper@apis.demon.co.uk ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 4 Apr 1995 14:12:15 GMT Reply-To: Gordon@apis.demon.co.uk Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Gordon L. Scott" Subject: Re: Natural products for the control of varroa Our local Association has been using french chalk (talc), icing sugar and lactic acid on a low-key investigative basis. The two powders are reputed (and appear to) interfere with the mites ability to grip it's host^H^H^H^H victim, resulting in a physical knock-down of adult mites. Dust all comb-sides 'til the bees are all dusty. Lactic acid is a soft/natural pesticide of sorts, I'm not sure of the mechanism but it seems reasonably effective (5% solution sprayed directly over the bees for a few seconds per comb-side) All of these require repeat treatments every four days for four treatments. All of them *can* get the bees pretty buzzy. I'm unaware of any adverse effects these treatments may have on the bees or brood. At present, I personally use drone-comb trapping & Bayvarol. -- Gordon Scott Gordon@apis.demon.co.uk Compuserve 100332,3310 Basingstoke Beekeeper Beekeeper@apis.demon.co.uk ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 Apr 1995 10:45:02 +0100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jean-Marie Van Dyck Subject: Re: Spraying water (was: Sugar H2)/smoke) Hi ! [05-Apr-95 10:40] I said ... > Seems _pure water_ gets no problem and is really useful to weaken some > vicious bees ... ** TO WEAKEN SOME VICIOUS ! ** Allen Dick observed ... > I would think that unless one is very careful, open brood could easily be > killed with either water or syrup. > We have noticed that young brood sometimes disappears after simply being > looked at, even when handled carefully. Careless shaking of frames and > exposure to sun, wind, etc. for more than an instant can result in loss of > brood. > Any drops of water or syrup landing in a cell might upset the balance in > the cell and result in loss of a larva. Any mist used should be *very* > fine, I would think, and I would advise marking any brood sprayed and a > checkup several days later to see if any loss has resulted, before adopting > this technique without reserve. I quite agree with your remarks, Allen, and I concede I use this tool only one or 2 times a year (when needed). It is obviously cautious to have this ready in the toolbox beside the smoker ... Cheers Jean-Marie ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 Apr 1995 10:59:51 +0100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jean-Marie Van Dyck Subject: Apistan prices in the world ... cont'd Jean-Marie Vandyck wrote: [Belgium 05-Apr-95 10:55] > In Belgium we have 2 (two) prices for the Apistan strips > ... > and it is the price described by Hugo : about $21 by a 10 strips package. > ... > one package of 10 strips : BEF 995.- (with VAT 12%) = about $32 Gordon Scott asked: > Aren't those prices for 20 strips not 10? Not at all: you have a kit of 10 precut strips in the same boxes for these 2 prices ! Sorry ! Salut, Jean-Marie ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 Apr 1995 12:36:17 GMT Reply-To: Gordon@apis.demon.co.uk Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Gordon L. Scott" Subject: Re: Digests Comments: To: uj296@freenet.victoria.bc.ca Sent direct & to the list uj296@freenet.victoria.bc.ca writes: > i would also like to obtain Bee=L in digest form. How do I > do this? Send mail to listserv@uacsc2.ablany.edu containing the line set bee-l digest if you also include the following line you will get brief instructions on using the listserver. help Regards, -- Gordon Scott Gordon@apis.demon.co.uk Compuserve 100332,3310 Basingstoke Beekeeper Beekeeper@apis.demon.co.uk ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 Apr 1995 15:34:01 +0200 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Andreas Kasenides Subject: Re: Smoke? In-Reply-To: (Your message of Mon, 03 Apr 95 08:24:58 GMT.) <9504031226.AA38293@zeus.cc.ucy.ac.cy> OK here is summary of what people are using for creating smoke (!!!): Needles from _Pinus strobus_.(White Pine) bailing twin sugar wate burlap bags needles of Douglas fir _Pseudotsuga mentiesi_ cedar wood chips and some more staff that was not tested or not favoured. As for us here the favourite has been cypress tree "leaves". Slightly dry but not entirely. It produces tons of smoke is almost neutral in smell (slightly pleasant smell) and seems to work wonders. Of course cypress trees are in abundance here. Now here is one more for you: What do you use for your fire producing agent in your smoker? I will get this started. Now hold your ... keyboards: donkey manure!! Andreas ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 Apr 1995 08:54:14 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Dave Einhorn Subject: silly question - Popular Science Article Has anyone read the Popular Science article in which someone claimed that they were using patties made of Crisco Oil to treat trachea mites? Dave Einhorn deinhorn@isnov.ab.umd.edu ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 Apr 1995 09:44:08 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Joseph Cooper Subject: Re: silly question - Popular Science Article In-Reply-To: On Wed, 5 Apr 1995, Dave Einhorn wrote: > Has anyone read the Popular Science article in which someone claimed > that they were using patties made of Crisco Oil to treat trachea > mites? > You might as well get it straight from the source. See Diana Sammataro and others, "Controlling Tracheal Mites ...in Honey Bees...with Vegetable Oil," Journal of Economic Entomology, Vol 87, No 4, (1994), pp. 910-916.. ************************* * Joseph Cooper * * jcooper@infinet.com * ************************* ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 Apr 1995 10:16:54 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Joseph Cooper Subject: Re: Natural products for the control of varroa Comments: To: "Gordon L. Scott" In-Reply-To: On Tue, 4 Apr 1995, Gordon L. Scott wrote: > Our local Association has been using french chalk (talc), icing > sugar and lactic acid on a low-key investigative basis. > Thanks for this posting and for your many contributions to this list. I wish you success and eagerly await your further reports.. Although I had personal knowledge of the crashing phenomenon last fall, I don't like Apistan one whit. Query: Is French chalk in any way different from common talc, hydrous magnesium silicate? I have heard that some talc deposits contain the dreaded "a" substance, asbestos. For this reason fewer and fewer babies' bottoms are being dusted with the mildly perfumed talcum powder of years gone by. ************************* * Joseph Cooper * * jcooper@infinet.com * ************************* ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 Apr 1995 10:21:06 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Aaron Morris Subject: BEE-L in digest form Comments: To: bee-l@ALBANY.BITNET To get BEE-L in digest form send mail to: LISTSERV@cnsibm.albany.edu The mail should NOT include a subject heading, and the content of the mail should be ONE LINE ONLY that reads: SET BEE-L DIGEST The results of this will be that LISTSERV will deliver a daily file that contains all the postings to BEE-L for the day. I find the single file easier to handle than the multiple postings. Aaron Morris, .... ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 Apr 1995 13:44:02 GMT Reply-To: Gordon@apis.demon.co.uk Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Gordon L. Scott" Subject: Re: Apistan prices in the world ... cont'd Jean-Marie Vandyck writes: > Jean-Marie Vandyck wrote: [Belgium 05-Apr-95 10:55] > > > In Belgium we have 2 (two) prices for the Apistan strips > > ... > > and it is the price described by Hugo : about $21 by a 10 strips package. > > ... > > one package of 10 strips : BEF 995.- (with VAT 12%) = about $32 > > Gordon Scott asked: > > Aren't those prices for 20 strips not 10? > > Not at all: you have a kit of 10 precut strips in the same boxes for > these 2 prices ! Sorry ! Ouch. People here in the UK have been telling me that Apistan is cheaper than Bayvarol (our only locally approved treatment), but our price is around 25UKP (about $38?) for _20_ strips or five treatments. Apistan is also normally a four-strip treatment isn't it? > Salut, Which language please? (Flemish?) Best regards, -- Gordon Scott Gordon@apis.demon.co.uk Compuserve 100332,3310 Basingstoke Beekeeper Beekeeper@apis.demon.co.uk ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 Apr 1995 12:37:07 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Keith S. Delaplane" Subject: Re: silly question - Popular Science Article In-Reply-To: Message of Wed, 5 Apr 1995 08:54:14 EDT from The case for vegetable oil as a treatment for tracheal mites is a strong one, as indicated in the following papers: Delaplane, K.S. 1992. J. Econ. Entomol. 85(6):2118-2124 Liu, T.P. & M.E. Nasr. 1993. Am. Bee J. 133(12):873-875 Sammataro, D. et al. 1994. J. Econ. Entomol. 87(4):910-916 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 Apr 1995 09:12:41 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jerry J Bromenshenk Subject: Re: silly question - Popular Science Article In-Reply-To: from "Dave Einhorn" at Apr 5, 95 08:54:14 am Dave: There has been considerable discussion on this list about the use of Crisco patties to control tracheal mites. It seems to work and there are several research studies as well as beekeeper reports that support the contention and explain how it works. The patties have to be left in almost continously since the oil/grease seems to interfer with host recognition by the mite (at least the last I heard from the folks trying to understand the mechanisms involved). However, a word of caution. Don't leave antibiotic extender patties in all year round! That could easily lead to resistance to the antibiotic by any number of disease pathogens - a scary thought. That is my one reservation about the use of patties in the colony - that someone gets the notion that if a Crisco patty is good for controlling mites, and if a Crisco patty laced with antibiotics is good for controlling diseases such as Foul Brood, why not combine the two to save mixing two batches. So, please don't do this. Thanks Jerry Bromenshenk University of Montana jjbmail@selway.umt.edu ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 Apr 1995 13:48:37 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Keith S. Delaplane" Subject: Re: silly question - Popular Science Article In-Reply-To: Message of Wed, 5 Apr 1995 09:12:41 -0600 from I want to clarify a comment made earlier that Terramycin in extender patties is inadvisable. This is, in fact, an approved use in the U.S. for two Terramycin products, TM-50D and TM-100D. Unfortunately, the label has not been updated for the Terramycin product most widely used by hobbyists, TM-25. A Pfizer Corp. representative and I wrote a summary article of these uses in the April 1994 American Bee Journal. Like with syrup or dust applications, a beekeeper using medicated extender patties must observe a 4-week withdrawal before nectar flows. Keith S. Delaplane Dept. Entomology, 200 Barrow Hall University of Georgia Athens, GA 30602 USA ksd@uga.cc.uga.edu ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 Apr 1995 08:49:20 CST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Falconer Henry Subject: Smoke substitute Comments: cc: rfh@pacific.ntf.flinders.edu.au Use of smokers is not allowed in the forest areas where we take our bees in the summer for the fireweed honey crop. Being reluctant to use aerosol 'smoke bombs', I put sacking in my smoker and dampened it with carbolic acid at the dilution used for the old-fashioned 'bee cloths'. While this was a bit less effective than a normal smoker, the bees did pay attention, e.g. one could clear them away from any required part of the comb surface. Having the use of a familiar aid was very convenient, even though it was less effective than normal. Falconer Henry email: rfh@pacific.ntf.flinders.edu.au ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 Apr 1995 19:34:47 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Gerard Worrell Subject: Re: Smoke? In-Reply-To: <199504031217.IAA17354@cbl.umd.edu> On Mon, 3 Apr 1995, Andreas Kasenides wrote: > Since some fellows are discussing smoke producing techniques I > would really like to hear from people that have considerable > experience what is their favourite smoke producing agent? > > Or am I just asking something that is a standard? > > Thanks > Andreas > Some more inputs on smoke: Some folks in Maryland use ground up corn cobs (maize) as a long lasting smoke. Here's a fun activity for a bee meeting: Have a smoker contest. We have one every year with some minor variations. Participants provide their own smoker and favorite smoker fuels. Limitation: cannot use petroleum products to start or as fuel ( no lighter fluid). about one minute allowed to get smoker lit. after 5 or 10 minutes, allow a reinforcing puff on the smoker. Then let sit for half hour. Check for those still going and rate on most and coolest smoke.If too many still going, half hour more. try again. You'd be surprised. The same people don't win year after year. The best guy/gal may have a complete flameout in that first 5-10 minutes! Jerry Worrell, Dunkirk,MD,USA Association of Southern Maryland Beekeepers (ASMB) ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 Apr 1995 21:14:36 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Michael Moroney Subject: Re: Smoke? In-Reply-To: <199504051238.AA01527@world.std.com> A beekeeper near here who runs a bee supply business sells sodium nitrate fertilizer for use in smokers (in small quantities in addition to your normal smoker fuel) I also found out (from this list) ammonium nitrate fertilizer also works. I tried this once or twice on a particularly ornery hive and it does work. Don't use too much of these, they're oxidizers and accelerate burning, producing LOTS of smoke for a short time, then the fuel's gone, or maybe a fire if things get out of control. Be careful of this smoke, while it's largely laughing gas (guess bees like it too!) it also contains nasty stuff. -Mike ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 Apr 1995 08:46:04 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Carl Mueller Subject: Re: Smoke? Michael Moroney wrote: >A beekeeper near here who runs a bee supply business sells sodium nitrate >fertilizer for use in smokers (in small quantities in addition to your >normal smoker fuel) I also found out (from this list) ammonium nitrate >fertilizer also works. I tried this once or twice on a particularly >ornery hive and it does work. Don't use too much of these, they're oxidizers >and accelerate burning, producing LOTS of smoke for a short time, then the >fuel's gone, or maybe a fire if things get out of control. Be careful of >this smoke, while it's largely laughing gas (guess bees like it too!) it >also contains nasty stuff. > >-Mike > I would caution against doing this. Ammonium nitrate fertilizer is made by reacting red fumming nitric acid with ammonia. It is an extreem oxidizer and has a very nasty trait of exploding if burned in a confined space. Commerical blasting powder is made from ammonium nitrate fertilizer. The only difference between the two products is that the fertilizer product is usually coated with diatomaesious earth. If a quantity of this were set on fire and it was flooded with water an explosion could result. ----------------------------------------------------------------- Carl Mueller West Palm Beach, Florida USA Email: cmueller@emi.net I think therefore, I am politically incorrect!! ----------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 Apr 1995 10:23:22 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Debbie Gane Subject: Re: Smoke? In-Reply-To: <199504031216.GAA04107@arts.usask.ca> On Mon, 3 Apr 1995, Andreas Kasenides wrote: > Since some fellows are discussing smoke producing techniques I > would really like to hear from people that have considerable > experience what is their favourite smoke producing agent? > > Or am I just asking something that is a standard? > > Thanks > Andreas > Around the Nipawin, Saskatchewan area my family has always cardboard- they just keep folded up boxes behind the seat in the truck and tear appropriate sized pieces off when they need it. Its really easy to transport since it takes up little space and we have quite a few hives . . plus we always seem to have boxes around - we don't buy any 'specialty' cut pieces, god forbid!! I didn't even realize people used other substances until I went beekeeping in the Peace region of Alberta . . . now I guess I've been thoroughly educated! Debbie Gane dlg132@arts.usask.ca ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 Apr 1995 20:26:08 -1000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Kevin Roddy Subject: What do you burn in your smokers? In-Reply-To: <9503151457.AA03574@uhunix4.uhcc.Hawaii.Edu> Hello all-- just curious, but I've read a wide variety of materials are used in beekeepers' smokers, such as oily rags, wood, dried plant materials, etc. I've seen beekeepers also warm up coals on a hibachi for 20 minutes and then putting them in their smoker. Just a couple of hints I've discovered that work very well are: using little coals that are sold anywhere incense is sold--usually 6-8 coals per package--maybe 98 cents-$1.59 a package. You just take a lighter and light the edge and it fires right up, and stays lit for a good 2 hours. three beekeepers here swear by using dried pine needles from ironwood trees. They work great, produce thick cool smoke, and they don't smell awful-- what do other people use? kroddy@uhunix.uhcc.hawaii.edu ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 Apr 1995 12:30:08 +0100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jean-Marie Van Dyck Subject: correcting a reference Hi all ! On 3-APR-1995 18:33:40.66 I said ... > The problem is to remove both wax _and_ propolis in one operation ! > According with Brother Adam in his "Beekeeping Method" the only > process to remove this both substances is to _heat_ in _alcaline > medium_ Eric, you heated but in tap water and the results are poor, > very poor. "My Beekeeping Method" is the translation of the french edition title of the Brother ADAM book. The correct english reference of this book is "Bee-keeping at Buckfast Abbey". Sorry Jean-Marie ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 Apr 1995 09:27:41 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Joseph Cooper Subject: Re: What do you burn in your smokers? In-Reply-To: Having watched this thread for some time, I wonder if there are others who use rolled up corrugated cardboard. It is certainly in plentiful supply and --when coiled to the proper density--it burns for long time. The duration of the burn can be increased is a handful of grass or weeds is placed on top of the cardboard. I learned this technique from the late Bill Steven. ************************* * Joseph Cooper * * jcooper@infinet.com * ************************* ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 Apr 1995 11:33:11 GMT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: MEMO 1995/04/07 12:31 From: John E III Taylor Subject: Re[2]: What do you burn in your smokers? Joseph Cooper wrote: > I wonder if there are others who use rolled up corrugated cardboard. It is > certainly in plentiful supply and--when coiled to the proper density--it burns > for long time. I've used twigs and scraps of wood when I've had them, but my mainstay is also corrugated kraft board (the ubiquitous cardboard box). I never throw them away any more (although my wife does when I'm not looking), but cut them into strips and roll them to fit the smoker. I regard the cardboard as a fire source to get green vegetation smoking, but it does a reasonable job by itself, as well. When I get the bees moved from suburbia down to the farm, guess I'll use some of the (natural) bailing twine--I have to pick it up off the ground anyway, might as well stuff it into the smoker. Most of our bails come bound with poly, but we still get the occasional lot that's fibre bound. John E. Taylor III W3ZID | "The opinions expressed are those of the E-Mail: mah48d@rohmhaas.com | writer and not of Rohm and Haas Company." ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 Apr 1995 10:34:25 PDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jane Beckman Subject: Re: What do you burn in your smokers? I thought I was the only one who used "activated charcoal" pellets in my smoker! These things are extremely convenient. Sure beats the oily rags I learned with... Of course, one day in a moment of whimsy, I dropped a couple frankensense pellets in with the leaves. Rather pleasant... I thought of it was ceremonially smudging my bees. ;-) Jane B. [jane@swdc.stratus.com] ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 Apr 1995 14:28:00 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Crawfords Electronics <0006173164@MCIMAIL.COM> Subject: Re: What do you burn in your smokers? > >Having watched this thread for some time, I wonder if there are others who >use rolled up corrugated cardboard. It is certainly in plentiful supply and When you are out in the field for an entire day using smoke, the cardboard smoke burns my eyes and makes my sinuses badly irratated. I've never had this problem with my favorite - burlap. David Crawford Pinole, Ca. 6173164@mcimail.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 8 Apr 1995 04:59:08 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Gordon D. Hayes" Subject: Re: ABJ Article(s) >I want to clarify a comment made earlier that Terramycin in extender Keith, I enjoy reading your articles in the ABJ. Look forward to getting my April issue. As someone who rents bee colonies for crop pollination, I need all the help I can get. Am looking for recent studies done on the number of colonies/bees per acre of the various crops. But not much out there. I was given the name of a good book on pollination by Wayne Buhler of Purdue University. But he added that it is out of print. The book is entitled, "Insect Pollination of Cultivated Crop Plants" Agriculture Handbook No. 496 Agricultural Research Service, USDA, written by S.E. McGregor in 1976. If you (or anyone reading this) knows where I might get a copy of this book I would be very appreciative. gdhayes@evansville.net (long distance call) gordon.hayes@gccbbs.com (local call) ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 8 Apr 1995 08:08:17 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Dave Green, Eastern Pollinator Newsletter" Subject: McGregor's Pollination "Bible" Comments: To: gdhayes@evansville.net Gordon Hayes says: >>The book is entitled, "Insect Pollination of Cultivated Crop Plants" Agriculture Handbook No. 496 Agricultural Research Service, USDA, written by S.E. McGregor in 1976. >>If you (or anyone reading this) knows where I might get a copy of this book I would be very appreciative. Try your congressmen. They get free copies for distribution, and I have gotten several publications that way, including one that was out of print. I haven't done it in a long time, but I presume it's still a policy. I have a copy, if you have specific questions. Sadly, it is, as you say, out of print, but also out of date, and we really need a new work that takes into account the drastic changes that have occurred in pollination field. Pollinator@aol.com Dave Green Eastern Pollinator Newsletter, PO Box 1215, Hemingway, SC 29554 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 8 Apr 1995 08:48:48 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Joseph Cooper Subject: Re: ABJ Article(s) In-Reply-To: > USDA, written by S.E. McGregor in 1976. > If you (or anyone reading this) knows where I might get a copy of this book > I would be very appreciative. > A general answer: When a book is not available in the libraries of your first resort, ask a reference librarian to do an online search of OCLC (Online Computer Library Center). This will locate copies of the title(s) of interest to you. Then ask the librarian to secure the book(s) via Interlibrary loan. ************************* * Joseph Cooper * * jcooper@infinet.com * ************************* ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 8 Apr 1995 13:34:21 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Fr. James Cassidy O.S.B." Subject: Varroa Finally got a chance with good weather to take a close look at my hives this spring here in New Hampshire. First observation was that I had put it off too long. The second was that there was too much honey and too few bees present. The third was varroa mites--obviously present in one hive and very bad in the other. A third was simply dead--and probably due to the mites. My question is, how to disinfect the hives and comb? Will putting them in a walk-in deep-freezer do the trick? With re-installation of new bees, I plan to use Apistan strips, but will that be enough? What else can/might/should I do? James Cassidy jcassidy@hawk.anselm.edu ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 8 Apr 1995 16:18:54 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Joseph Cooper Subject: HAND TO HAND COMBAT WITH THE VARROA MITE Does anyone on this list know of research directed toward the development of a pheromonal or other chemical attractant that might lure those little red rascals away from the bees? ************************* * Joseph Cooper * * jcooper@infinet.com * ************************* ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 8 Apr 1995 17:58:00 GMT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Andy Nachbaur Organization: Wild Bee's BBS Subject: Re: ABJ Article(s) <>From: "Gordon D. Hayes" <>Date: Sat, 8 Apr 1995 04:59:08 -0400 <>Subject: Re: ABJ Article(s) <>Am looking for recent studies done on the number of colonies/bees per acre <>of the various crops. But not much out there. I was given the name of a good <>book on pollination by Wayne Buhler of Purdue University. But he added that <>it is out of print. The book is entitled, "Insect Pollination of Cultivated <>Crop Plants" Agriculture Handbook No. 496 Agricultural Research Service, <>USDA, written by S.E. McGregor in 1976. <>If you (or anyone reading this) knows where I might get a copy of this book <>I would be very appreciative. Hello Gordon, Can't find my catalog, but Larry Connor, Phd at Wicwas Press, P.O. Box 817, Cheshire, Connecticut 06410, USA is a good place to start a search for Sam's Pollination book. I found this handbook a real asset because it lists some crops I had never seen or heard of and always wondered where these thing were grown and what part of the plant we were really using. As for the pollination numbers of hives per acre. Nothing much new in this area because no one has really figured out how to measure it. It really is a function of the value of the crop, accommodations by and for beekeepers more then hard facts. Much of what is mis-stated as rules is NOT based on hard science but more on common sense and practical experience. Example, as a rule in California growers, want one or two hives per acre for musk melon pollination, cotton growers don't want any. Yet, when cotton is at it highest range in price the increase in quality and set by honey bees can be more valuable then the two colonies used in melon's when the market is low.. Cotton growers are seldom asked by beekeepers to pay rent, as beekeepers find cotton fields attractive to bees for summer honey production, and early melon fields are not. So this leads to the grand plan that melons need bees, but cotton does not. What is more correct is they both do, but beekeepers need cotton and don't need melons..as for fact's, bees benefit both. Research in Arizona showed that in cage tests melons did not produce, in field research it was found that in more or less isolated areas one hive per acre was sufficient to pollinate melon. NO fields of melons were ever found to be isolated enough to exclude bees to test to see if this would reduce melon set to nothing. Same can be said of Almonds, the number one crop in value as far a bee's go.. In the summer when I am checking a melon field for bees I try to check it around 8-9 am if the weather is warm enough for bee flight. This is when the new male flowers are producing pollen. I also check for open female flowers as the male flowers start to bloom a few days before the female. What the grower's want is a good crown set as these are the melons that will be picked and are usually on the raised beds and not damaged or stained by irrigation. If I have to really study to find bee's in the field I assume the field would be helped by bringing additional bee's into the area. This is seldom the case, but growers still like to see bee hives around their fields and the majority rent one or two hives per acre. The rent's here are low, $10- $15, or in many cases nothing if the beekeeper needs summer pasture for his bees. How many hive are needed to pollinate melons? In this area with bee yards of 100 or more hives every mile, NONE. How many additional bee's are rented by melon growers? In this area one to two hives per acre are rented, because the packing sheds who finance and pack the growers melons say thats how many the grower should have. Yields are 100% dependent on the market at picking time. If the market is hot, yields are great, if the market is cold, yields are poor. 500-600 crates are produced. Which is little more then one melon per vine. Anyway hope you find the book, you will find a chapter on the honey bee & the ecology. I was lucky to know Sam McGregor and to be able to share beekeeping observations with him and it was I who suggested this chapter before the book went to print. Even though Honey Bee's are not native to America they do play a role in the environment outside of agriculture and I was elated to see Sam include this in the final draft. ttul Andy- ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 8 Apr 1995 23:09:23 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: marion ellis Subject: Re: What do you burn in your smokers? In-Reply-To: <9504071736.AA24517@unlinfo.unl.edu> from "Jane Beckman" at Apr 7, 95 10:34:25 am > Regarding smoker fuel discussion: Dehydrated alfalfa pellets are a useful smoker fuel that I have not seen mentioned. They take a few minutes to get a good fire going, but once coals form they will burn for many hours. You need a little grass above them to keep them from falling out the spout. They glow like charcoal and produce cool white smoke. Caution - do not dump them on the ground when finished. They are difficult to extinguish and can be a fire hazard. They are not suitable for working a few colonies, but make a good fuel if you plan on working bees all day. Once started properly, they will not go out on you. They produce little tar and do not gum up a smoker like many other fuels. A propane torch works well to get them started. Another useful fuel is to add green grass to a burning smoker to produce lots of cool white smoke for moving bees. You must, however, keep puffing the bellows or it will go out. A parting thought, if you do not like working with a gummy smoker, easy-off oven cleaner spray will clean up the outside nicely. Spray it on, let it sit for 10 minutes, then rinse it off with water. marion ellis mellis@unlinfo.unl.edu ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 9 Apr 1995 16:01:01 GMT Reply-To: ibra@matheson.demon.co.uk Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: ibra Subject: Re: Smoke? In your message dated Monday 3, April 1995 you wrote : > Since some fellows are discussing smoke producing techniques I > would really like to hear from people that have considerable > experience what is their favourite smoke producing agent? > > Or am I just asking something that is a standard? > > Thanks > Andreas > The correspondence on this thread has been interesting, and to paraphrase the old saying about colony management "if you ask 10 beekeepers how to use a smoker you'll get 12 different answers". For practical reasons (being able to work hives for long periods without having to fiddle with the smoker too often), I recommend sacking that's well weathered. (I think that's the same as burlap; experiment with different weaves). The key is well weathered, and the sacking should be rotten enough to be torn apart by hand without you needing to be Superman. I lay the bags out where they are exposed to the sun and rain, for several months. To make the smoke less unpleasant it pays to add some organic matter to the top of the smoker, using the sacking for a longlasting burn but topping up the organic material more frequently. I would chose pine needles first (Pinus radiata, but I don't think it matters), but lots of other material is good; dried gum leaves, green Lawsoniana leaves, green grass, the long strips of bark that are easily peeled off the native New Zealand tree kanuka and its cousin manuka, even gum bark. For me using corrugated cardboard, rolled or otherwise, is doing it the hard way; hard to keep going and hard to breathe. Likewise broken off chunks of soft wallboard (Pinex and other trade names). And I've always been too wary of the chemicals that baling twine is impregnated with to want to burn it in my smoker. It pays to be adventurous though. For a long time I thought that using hay wasn't worth the trouble, until a beekeeper showed me that the secret is to never empty the ash out from your smoker. The bed of the burnt residue makes it easy to start again next time, and prevents the hay from burning away too quickly. If you use newspaper to get any material going the secret is to use as little as possible. Andrew -- ************************************************************************** * From Andrew Matheson, Director, International Bee Research Association * * * * E.mail (home): ibra@matheson.demon.co.uk * * (office): ibra@cardiff.ac.uk * * * * IBRA, 18 North Road, Cardiff CF1 3DY, UK * * Fax (+44) 1222-665522 Telephone (+44) 1222-37209 * ************************************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 9 Apr 1995 23:14:15 +1030 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jean-Pierre Chapleau Subject: Re: Smoke? Comments: To: ibra In-Reply-To: <199504090150.MAA25092@scuzzy.fmmo.ca> I invite everybody to explore the wonderful world of natural smoker fuels. Explore what is available in your area. You will discover that many natural material can be used, each with different properties. Some produce very pleasant smelling smoke, some burn quickly, some last forever but need pumping the bellow regularly. Explore and adapt the fuel to the job. Here I use most often 2 or 3 years old cedar bark that has started to rot. I add ferns, spruce needles, and other vegetals for a more pleasant smell. Make your own mix. I will never go back to burlap. _______________________________ ~ |_____JEAN-PIERRE CHAPLEAU______| ~ bee breeder |1282, rang 8, Saint-Adrien,| ~ | Quebec, Canada, J0A 1C0 | vice president of the Canadian Honey Council | phone: (819) 828-3396 | ~ ~ | fax: (819) 828-2248 | ~ ~ | chapleau@scuzzy.fmmo.ca | ~ ~ |______________________________~ ~ |__| |__| ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 Apr 1995 00:10:19 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Derk Phelps Subject: Re: Smoke-I've Got the Answer Comments: To: ibra@matheson.demon.co.uk We use punk wood, partially rotted wood. It is not rotted enough to be moist or the consistency of sawdust but still splitable. We cut off large round disks the width ot the length of your smoker body and then throw what we need in a box in the truck for this purpose. We live in Northern Utah where the climate is very dry and there is plenty of downed trees near our yard locations that there is always plenty of this very good fuel. Its free too. Derk Phelps Honey Farm (dpbees@aol.com) : @ ) ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 Apr 1995 00:11:07 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Derk Phelps Subject: Candles:Beeswax Hello all, I am looking for sources of information on producing beeswax candles. We have played around a little bit but are always looking for some new information. If any of you have any good sources for molded or dipped candle instruction, cataloges, supplies, I would appreciate anything you might have. Thanks Derk Phelps Phelps Honey Farm (dpbees@aol.com) : @ ) ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 Apr 1995 08:27:11 -0300 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Hans-Ulrich THOMAS Subject: Re: ABJ Article(s) >Am looking for recent studies done on the number of colonies/bees per acre >of the various crops. But not much out there. I was given the name of a good >book on pollination by Wayne Buhler of Purdue University. But he added that >it is out of print. The book is entitled, "Insect Pollination of Cultivated >Crop Plants" Agriculture Handbook No. 496 Agricultural Research Service, >USDA, written by S.E. McGregor in 1976. Gordon, There is an other book available which might be usefull to you. - John B. Free: Insect Pollination of crops. 2nd ed. 1993 (Academic Press) Have a look at it. It's new and contains a lot of information in it. Best regards Hans (hthomas@solid.phys.ethz.ch) ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 Apr 1995 01:12:38 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Rob Bidleman Subject: Re: Smoke-I've Got the Answer In-Reply-To: <199504100409.AA17631@mail.crl.com> On Mon, 10 Apr 1995, Derk Phelps wrote: > We use punk wood, partially rotted wood. ** I learned to use dried artemisia. It calms the bees as well as N02 and is less harmful and upsetting than wood for some reason. Rob - ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 Apr 1995 08:11:11 -0300 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Kenna MacKenzie Subject: Re: McGregor's Pollination "Bible" A second pollination 'bible' has been updated in a second edition. It is: J. B. Free 1993 Insect Pollination of Crops Academic Press Kenna MacKenzie, Research Scientist Agriculture and Agri-Food Canada Kentville, Nova Scotia k_mackenzie@nsrske.agr.ca or mackenziek@em.agr.ca ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 Apr 1995 07:56:13 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Kelley Rosenlund 904-392-5551 Subject: Re: Varroa As I understand it, Varroa mites die within three days if they do not have a bee to munch on. Kelley rosenlk@freenet.ufl.edu ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 Apr 1995 07:58:26 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: WILLIAM G LORD Subject: Re: Smoke-I've Got the Answer In-Reply-To: <9504100811.AA03341@bigbad.ces.ncsu.edu> from "Rob Bidleman" at Apr 10, 95 01:12:38 am What is the species of Artemesia you are using, is it A. vulgaris? A. vulgaris (commonly called mugwort in the U.S.) has a number of interesting properties, but I had not heard of using it for smoke ( it is also a noxious weed, be careful of planting it!). Furthering the discussion on nitrous oxide, I also recall another caveat for its use: it has the effect of erasing the bee's memory. I think it used to be used to gas bees in alfalfa fields to make them relear the territory and work the alfalfa. Bill Lord Louisburg, NC> >On Mon, 10 Apr 1995, Derk Phelps wrote: > >> We use punk wood, partially rotted wood. > >** I learned to use dried artemisia. It calms the bees as well as N02 > and is less harmful and upsetting than wood for some reason. > > Rob - > -- WILLIAM G LORD E-Mail : wglord@franklin Internet: wglord@franklin.ces.ncsu.edu Phone : 9194963344 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 Apr 1995 07:34:31 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Subject: Re: McGregor's Pollination "Bible" In-Reply-To: <9504101214.AA30974@cuugnet.cuug.ab.ca> Does anyone know who is selling this book and for how much? On Mon, 10 Apr 1995, Kenna MacKenzie wrote: > A second pollination 'bible' has been updated in a second > edition. It is: > > J. B. Free 1993 Insect Pollination of Crops Academic Press > > Kenna MacKenzie, Research Scientist > Agriculture and Agri-Food Canada > Kentville, Nova Scotia > > k_mackenzie@nsrske.agr.ca or mackenziek@em.agr.ca > W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper VE6CFK Rural Route One Swalwell Alberta Canada T0M 1Y0 Email: dicka@cuug.ab.ca or allend@internode.net Virtual Art Gallery: http://www.cuug.ab.ca:8001/~dicka __________________Why not drop by?____________________ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 Apr 1995 10:00:00 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Kerry Clark 784-2225 fax (604) 784 2299" Subject: Re: Candles:Beeswax Most of the beekeepers' supply catalogs have a candle supplies section. The 1995 catalog of Glorybee (Eugene Oregon) has 5 pages of items for candlemaking (call 1 800 GLORYBEE) 1 800 456 7923 There are some wonderful beeswax candle molds available in Germany. I don't know a source for them. Kerry Clark, Apiculture Specialist B.C. Ministry of Agriculture 1201 103 Ave Dawson Creek B.C. V1G 4J2 CANADA Tel (604) 784-2225 fax (604) 784-2299 INTERNET KCLARK@GALAXY.GOV.BC.CA ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 Apr 1995 16:11:08 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: RICHARD E BONNEY Subject: Pollination books Apparently there is a reprint of McGregor's book available. Larry Connor lists it under new books in his latest catalog, $19.95. He also lists the 1993 edition of Free's pollination book, $180. Contact Wicwas Press P O Box 817E Cheshire CT 06410-0817 fax 203 250-7575 no regular phone number listed. Larry was on-line but I have not seen any sign of him in a while and I don't have his e-mail address. Dick Bonney rebon@ent.umass.edu ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 Apr 1995 12:42:06 -1000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Thomas W. Culliney" Subject: Re: Pollination and other bee books In-Reply-To: <9504102005.AA25518@hinc.hawaii.gov> Larry Connor's e-mail address is, or was (I don't know how current this information is): ljconnor@aol.com. =============================================================== Thomas W. Culliney * Phone: (808) 973-9529 Hawaii Dept. of Agriculture * Facsimile: (808) 973-9533 Division of Plant Industry * E-mail: tcullin@hinc.hawaii.gov 1428 South King Street * Honolulu, Hawaii 96814 * U.S.A. * =============================================================== "...but in the minds of most men, the learned as well as the vulgar, the idea of the trifling nature of his pursuit is so strongly associated with that of the diminutive size of its objects, that an _Entomologist_ is synonymous with every thing futile and childish."--Kirby & Spence (1816) =============================================================== ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 Apr 1995 13:52:51 U Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Larry Farris Subject: Request for Information Subject: Time:1:31 PM OFFICE MEMO Request for Information Date:4/10/95 I have two questions involving two rather small insects that I would like to request some information on from either an entomologist and/or beekeepers: 1) First, I would like to know where I can obtain a copy of one of those blownup black & white (microscope) photos of the mite that lives in the eye lash roots of humans. Also does anyone know the name of this mite? 2) Secondly, I live in north Texas and while collecting pollen from one of my beehives, I noticed a very small brown insect. It was visible to the unaided eye and it was NOT a varroa mite (I did not have a microscope, but it appeared to have a somewhat more elongated body however about the same colour brown as the varroa). It was smaller than a varroa mite and I found them (not many) actually in the pollen collection drawer. What are these insects and do they harm the beehive? My Internet Address is: larry.farris.0247255@nt.com I would appreciated any help that I could receive. - Larry ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 Apr 1995 20:43:18 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Darlene Scribilo Subject: bee venom collection for medical use Comments: To: dgscribi@system6.lcs.gov.bc.ca Hello Bee-L'ers, As you no doubt have guessed from other messages I have placed on the list I have a keen interest in bee venom. I attended my first apitherapy conference last year and can't seem to read enough about it. Perhaps I'm just trying to convince myself each time I'm stung that it's good for me. I found an article in "Canadian Beekeeping",vol.18. No.6, Page 140 that may interest the people who have shown an interest in bee venom over the last several months. It is written by Michael Simics . Forty years ago in Slovak, Markovic and Molnar developed a bee venom collector device that collected bee stings by an electrical shock method. This first generation collector device used high voltage and frequency to obtain the bee stings and forced the bees to sting into a thick rubber membrane. As a result the bees died after this process. Further purification methods were needed to separate the venom from the stings. Since that time the techniques of bee venom collection have significantly changed without changing the actual theory. At present, this kind of collecting method is not economical, however, by using the electrical shock method it is possible to collect pure whole dried bee venom without killing the bees. The quality of the bee venom is a very important factor and closely depends on the technical parameters of the collector device, collecting method, honey flow, weather conditions and the chronological age of the bees in the hive during the "milking" process. The quality of bee venom is determined by the number of its inner components and its purity. The bee venom collecting method I presently use is quite simple. I place one collector frame in an upside down position on top of the frames of each hive in a bee yard. There can be 20 to 40 collector frames in a bee yard depending on the number of hives in it. Each collector frame is connected to the next one and then to the collector device. The collector device gives electrical impulses to the wire grids of the collector frames. The output voltage,current, frquency, wave form and time intervals are regulated by the device and supply the most effective impulses to the wire grid. The collectng time is 30 minutes. During this time the bees will receive mild electrical impulses and sting into the surface of the collector sheet. The collector sheet is made from glass and its surface is covered by a special space age material. This material allows the bees to withdraw their stingers and protects the venom from any contamination. The venom is deposited between the protective material and the glass sheet. After the collection time has expired,the collector frames are placed at the entrances of the hives so that the bees can return to their own colony. This process is repeated in other bee yards allowing bee venom collection from 100 colonies within an eight hour day. Bee venom dries quickly on the collector sheet and after removing the protective material it is scraped off the glass sheet and stored in a dark, cool place. The venom collected by this method is snow white in color and free from any contamination or foreign material. Its purity is much higher than the venoms that were tested two decades ago that the scientific community is still using for a reference (Franklin, R., 1975). Bee venom collected by the new method was tested in 1992 and 1994. The results showed similar inner components of the venom compared to the results of the recently published scientific paper (Schumacher et al., 1992). This seems to prove it is possible to collect a standard quality of venom for medical purposes. According to observation and scientific literature this kind of collecting method has no side effcts on the bee colonies. The venom collection increases the activities of the bees. Some observers stated that the effects of the vaporized,volatile fraction of the venom had a repellent effect on the Varroa jacobsoni and significantly decreased its population in the colonies which were used for venom collection. Based on the exact technical parameteres of the third generation collector devices used in my work and the applied space age material,during the 30 minute collecting time,from 20 bee colonies an average of 6.8 bees died per colony. This observation was done by an independent expert from the U.S. in early September, 1994 when she visted me in order to study my bee venom collecting methods (Rose, A.,1994). In general, it is important that bee venom be standardized within certain parameters and as a consequence, it is also necessary to set a standard for the technical parameters of the bee venom collector devices. In order to reach this goal, Apitronic Services is presently developing a fourth generation microprocessor controlled collector device. With this collector device it will be possible to control,evaluate and correct several important parameters during the collecting time which is not possible with the presently used collector devices. This gives an opportunity to serve the highest standard requirements for bee venom and expand its uses by drug manufacturers in manufacturing creams, liniments, ointments or injections. Presently there is a growing interest in buying bee venom from Apitronic Services for the purpose of treating multiple sclerosis, arthritis, joint inflammations, psoriasis, lumbago, etc. Pure whole dried bee venom is available from Apitronic Services. CAUTION: Bee venom that is collected by Apitronic Services is only available to researchers, drug manufacturers, physicians, pharmacists, and therapists. Michael Simics started bee venom collecting in Hungary, in 1986. Presently he is continuing this activity and research in Canada at Apitronic Services. Bee venom collector devices are available for 1, 10, 20, and 40 hives (Limited time offer, until May, 1995). Further information can be obtained from; Apitronic Services, #204, 1331 - 15th Ave, S.W., Calgary, Alberta, Canada, T3C 0X8, Ph/Fax(403) 541-1877 References: Franklin, R., M.D. and H Baer, M.D. (1975) Comparison of Honey bee Venoms and Their Components From Various Sources, The Jrnl and Allergy (sic) and Clinical Immunology, Vol.55,No.5, pp 285-298 Rose, A., (1994) The Future of Bee Venom Collection, Bee Informed, Vol. 1,No.5 Schumacher, M.,et al. (1992) Biochemical Variability of Venoms From Individual European and Africanized Honeybees,J Allergy Clin Immunol.,90:59-65. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 Apr 1995 16:47:32 GMT Reply-To: Gordon@apis.demon.co.uk Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Gordon L. Scott" Subject: Re: Varroa In message <9504101300.aa10007@punt2.demon.co.uk> BEE-L@uacsc2.albany.edu writes: > As I understand it, Varroa mites die within three days if they do not have > a bee to munch on. It takes a little longer than that -- about 7 or 8 days is a safer number. Regards, -- Gordon Scott Gordon@apis.demon.co.uk Compuserve 100332,3310 Basingstoke Beekeeper Beekeeper@apis.demon.co.uk ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 Apr 1995 08:56:47 GMT Reply-To: Gordon@apis.demon.co.uk Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Gordon L. Scott" Subject: Re: Request for Information Larry Farris writes: > > 2) Secondly, I live in north Texas and while collecting pollen from > one of my beehives, I noticed a very small brown insect. It was visible > to the unaided eye and it was NOT a varroa mite (I did not have a > microscope, but it appeared to have a somewhat more elongated body > however about the same colour brown as the varroa). It was smaller than > a varroa mite and I found them (not many) actually in the pollen > collection drawer. What are these insects and do they harm the > beehive? This is probably a braula (braula coecci, if I remember correctly). Braula are pretty much as you describe, they are an insect not a mite (6 legs not eight) and tend to ride on the backs of bees rather than underneath like the much flatter shaped varroa. Braula appear totally harmless, *possibly* even benificial. The poor little braula seems to be under serious attack by our acaricide Bayvarol -- I presume the same is true with Apistan. Regards, -- Gordon Scott Gordon@apis.demon.co.uk Compuserve 100332,3310 Basingstoke Beekeeper Beekeeper@apis.demon.co.uk ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 Apr 1995 05:00:00 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Keith Cutting Subject: Apitherapy Comments: To: BEE-L%ALBNYVM1.BITNET@BROWNVM.brown.edu Would the person who posted the piece on bee venom collection contact me. I lost your address. <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<: Keith.Cutting@Dartmouth.edu The Cutting Farm Kearsage Beekeepers Association 103 North Road NH Beef Producers Association Sunapee, New Hampshire 03782 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 Apr 1995 14:17:17 +0100 Reply-To: IBRA@cardiff.ac.uk Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Dr Pamela Munn Subject: Re: ABJ Article(s) In-Reply-To: from "Gordon D. Hayes" at Apr 8, 95 04:59:08 am The IBRA library has a copy of McGregor's book which is available for members to borrow (worldwide - not just UK) > >I want to clarify a comment made earlier that Terramycin in extender > > Keith, > > I enjoy reading your articles in the ABJ. Look forward to getting my April > issue. > > As someone who rents bee colonies for crop pollination, I need all the help > I can get. > Am looking for recent studies done on the number of colonies/bees per acre > of the various crops. But not much out there. I was given the name of a good > book on pollination by Wayne Buhler of Purdue University. But he added that > it is out of print. The book is entitled, "Insect Pollination of Cultivated > Crop Plants" Agriculture Handbook No. 496 Agricultural Research Service, > USDA, written by S.E. McGregor in 1976. > If you (or anyone reading this) knows where I might get a copy of this book > I would be very appreciative. > > gdhayes@evansville.net (long distance call) > gordon.hayes@gccbbs.com (local call) > ************************************************************** * Dr Pamela Munn * * Editor of Bee World, Associate Editor of J. Apic. Res. * *============================================================* * E.mail : IBRA@Cardiff.AC.UK | Mail : IBRA * * Phone : (+44) 1222 372 409 | 18 North Road * * Fax : (+44) 1222 665 522 | Cardiff CF1 3DY * * | UK * *============================================================* * If your mail is for someone else in IBRA I will pass it on * ************************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 Apr 1995 14:24:52 +0100 Reply-To: IBRA@cardiff.ac.uk Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Dr Pamela Munn Subject: Re: McGregor's Pollination "Bible" In-Reply-To: from "Allen Dick" at Apr 10, 95 07:34:31 am IBRA has this book in its extensive catalogue: it cost 85.00 pounds sterling. Expensive, but worth it! Contact me directly if you want more info. Pam E.mail: ibra@cardiff.ac.uk > Does anyone know who is selling this book and for how much? > On Mon, 10 Apr 1995, Kenna MacKenzie wrote: > > > A second pollination 'bible' has been updated in a second > > edition. It is: > > > > J. B. Free 1993 Insect Pollination of Crops Academic Press > > > > Kenna MacKenzie, Research Scientist > > Agriculture and Agri-Food Canada > > Kentville, Nova Scotia > > > > k_mackenzie@nsrske.agr.ca or mackenziek@em.agr.ca > > > > W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper VE6CFK > Rural Route One Swalwell Alberta Canada T0M 1Y0 > Email: dicka@cuug.ab.ca or allend@internode.net > Virtual Art Gallery: http://www.cuug.ab.ca:8001/%dicka > __________________Why not drop by?____________________ > ************************************************************** * Dr Pamela Munn * * Editor of Bee World, Associate Editor of J. Apic. Res. * *============================================================* * E.mail : IBRA@Cardiff.AC.UK | Mail : IBRA * * Phone : (+44) 1222 372 409 | 18 North Road * * Fax : (+44) 1222 665 522 | Cardiff CF1 3DY * * | UK * *============================================================* * If your mail is for someone else in IBRA I will pass it on * ************************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 Apr 1995 14:55:15 +0100 Reply-To: IBRA@cardiff.ac.uk Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Dr Pamela Munn Subject: new perspectives on varroa **New Perspectives on varroa** I've had several enquiries about this book and so I thought I'd put together a general note to cover them. The book is published by the International Bee Research Association (IBRA) and is edited by Andrew Matheson. It contains 4 review papers and 25 technical articles written by scientists with experience of varroa from all over east and western Europe. Review papers: * Interactions between varroa and pathogens. * Breeding bees tolerant of varroa. * Control methods actually and potentially in use. * Impact of varroa on beekeeping. Technical papers are organized into 5 sections: * Varroa biology. * Honey bee susceptibility. * Chemical control. * Other control methods. * Issues that varroa poses for beekeeping. Many topics important for the future of varroa and beekeeping are under discussion in Europe. Breeding resistant bees, the role of secondary pathogens, non-chemical control, using plant oils and heat treatment against varroa; problems with fluvalinate resistance; developing new chemical controls -- all are covered in this volume. The results of a specialist workshop organized by IBRA are now available. *New perspectives on varroa* will bring readers up to date with what's happening in varroa research and beekeeping practice, with contributions from 18 countries. Available direct from IBRA: Price (including post and packing) GBP15.00 (UK) or GBP16.00/$US26.00 (elsewhere). We accept sterling and dollar cheques and credit cards (VISA, Mastercard, Access). Write, fax, phone or e.mail IBRA (see below) ************************************************************** * c/o Dr Pamela Munn * * Editor of Bee World, Associate Editor of J. Apic. Res. * *============================================================* * E.mail : ibra@Cardiff.AC.UK | Mail : IBRA * * Phone : (+44) 1222 372 409 | 18 North Road * * Fax : (+44) 1222 665 522 | Cardiff CF1 3DY * * | UK * ************************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 Apr 1995 18:01:30 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Gerard Worrell Subject: Bee stings for Multiple Sclerosis Among those who have been helped by bee stings, I guess my experience has been with Pat Wagner. She had been bedridden with MS and had been using almost every new medicine the doctors could think of. Nothing helped. A beekeeper suggested she try getting stung. As a result of her remarkable change in condition ( not complete recovery, but she can walk and dance again!), she has written a book. It explains about her experiences with bee sting therapy and how to do it yourself. Covers MS, arthritis, muscle aches, PMS and other ailments. The book "How Well Are You Willing to Bee?" is available through several Bee Supply catalogs at $27 plus postage for 1 pound. 75 pages, softcover, spiral bound. Jerry Worrell, Pres. Association of Southern Maryland Beekeepers ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 Apr 1995 10:15:20 +1000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Codger Subject: Re: Candles:Beeswax > Most of the beekeepers' supply catalogs have a candle supplies section. > The 1995 catalog of Glorybee (Eugene Oregon) has 5 pages of items for > candlemaking (call 1 800 GLORYBEE) 1 800 456 7923 > > There are some wonderful beeswax candle molds available in Germany. > I don't know a source for them. > > > Kerry Clark, Apiculture Specialist > B.C. Ministry of Agriculture > 1201 103 Ave > Dawson Creek B.C. > V1G 4J2 CANADA Tel (604) 784-2225 fax (604) 784-2299 > INTERNET KCLARK@GALAXY.GOV.BC.CA > >KERRY COULD YOU PLEASE FORWARD THE ADDRESS OF THE CANDLE CATALOG SUPPLIER SO I MAY CONTACT VIA SURFACE MAIL THANKS VINCE B CONSTABLE ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 Apr 1995 00:43:00 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: ga14 Subject: Re: HAND TO HAND COMBAT WITH THE VARROA MITE In-Reply-To: <9504082021.AA00134@umailsrv1.UMD.EDU> >Does anyone on this list know of research directed toward the development >of a pheromonal or other chemical attractant that might lure those little >red rascals away from the bees? > >************************* >* Joseph Cooper * >* jcooper@infinet.com * >************************* > Joseph: It is my understanding that considerable work is being done in this field at present. Perhaps other readers will have more information but the one article I have at my finger tips is : Trouiller,J.,G.Arnold, B.Chappe, Y. LeConte and C. Masson. 1992. Semiochemical basis of infestation of honey bee brood by Varroa jacobsoni. J.Chem.Ecol. 18:2041-2053. Good Luck Gordon Allen-Wardell Extension Apiculturist Univeristy of Maryland ga14@umail.umd.edu ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 Apr 1995 00:54:29 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Gordon D. Hayes" Subject: Re: HAND TO HAND COMBAT WITH THE VARROA MITE >Does anyone on this list know of research directed toward the development >of a pheromonal or other chemical attractant that might lure those little >red rascals away from the bees? John, The only research that I am aware of in this line was reported in an American Bee Journal article (would have to look to locate). It showed that the Varroa mite was especially attracted to the drone larvae pheremone. That is why some people are using drone cell traps. You simply let the queen lay drone eggs (?) in the cells. Then when they are mostly capped over you discard them. Maybe someday we can get the particular pheremone produced by the drone larvae (it was named in the article) in a bottle. That would be nice. gh gordon.hayes@gccbbs.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 Apr 1995 00:59:11 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Gordon D. Hayes" Subject: Re: ABJ Article(s) >Gordon, > >There is an other book available which might be usefull to you. > >- John B. Free: Insect Pollination of crops. 2nd ed. 1993 (Academic Press) I am trying to have my local library get this book for me on inter-library loan. I found the bibliography at another library in the area which has a computer database of books available. I would like to add that I am very appreciative of all the help that has been offered in my search for information on pollination. gh gdhayes@evansville.net gordon.hayes@gccbbs.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 Apr 1995 10:06:32 +1000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Robert Rice Subject: UNSUBSCRIBE UNSUBSCRIBE Robert Rice ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 Apr 1995 21:43:08 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Dave Green, Eastern Pollinator Newsletter" Subject: Re: bee venom collection for ... Dear Darlene: I read your post with great interest. Can you give further insight into the practicality of collecting bee venom as a commercial venture. How much does your collection device cost? I am a commercial pollination beekeeper looking for additional ways to use the *services* of my *employees*. Thanks, Pollinator@aol.com Dave Green PO Box 1215, Hemingway, SC 29554 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 Apr 1995 13:48:14 +0200 Reply-To: Michael Haberl Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Michael Haberl Subject: Re: Candles:Beeswax Comments: To: BEE-L%ALBNYVM1.BITNET@vm.gmd.de Dear> VINCE B CONSTABLE, here are some addresses of German suppliers of candle molds: Imkereifachgrosshandlung Hagen Warnholz Itzehoer Chaussee 57 24768 Rendsburg Fax: ++49 4331 80322 Germany Tel: ++49 4331 88139 W. Seip Hauptstr. 32 - 36 Fax: ++49 6447 6816 35510 Butzbach - Ebersgoens Tel: ++49 6447 6026 Honig Mngersdorf Fax: ++49 9624 2328 92266 Leidersdorf/Post Ensdorf Tel: ++49 9624 727 Imka Naturprodukte aus der Imkerei Reinhold Brehm Fichtestr. 3 96052 Bamberg Tel: ++49 951 45194 Sddeutsche Imkereigenossenschaft 73262 Reichenbach an der Fils Tel: ++49 7153 51088 Bienenprodukte Beck Kapellenweg 2 96175 Pettstadt Tel: ++49 9502 1482 Hope that helps, --------------------------------------------------------------------- Michael Haberl Tel: ++49 89 5902-444 Zoologisches Institut der Uni Muenchen Fax: ++49 89 5902-450 Luisenstr. 14 80333 Muenchen, Germany E-mail: haberl@zi.biologie.uni-muenchen.de --------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 Apr 1995 11:48:13 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Martin S Damus Subject: Re: Request for Information > > I have two questions involving two rather small insects that I would > like to request some information on from either an entomologist and/or > beekeepers: > 1) First, I would like to know where I can obtain a copy of one of > those blownup black & white (microscope) photos of the mite that lives > in the eye lash roots of humans. Also does anyone know the name of this > mite? It is in the genus Demodex (there may be many species, I'm not sure). I don't know how close you are to a large library, but a medical entomology book will have a picture of it. I don't have a specific reference, sorry. I am close to a library; if there isn't one near you, let me know, it would be a simple matter for me to go and get a picture for you. Martin Damus ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 Apr 1995 09:05:00 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Kerry Clark 784-2225 fax (604) 784 2299" Subject: Re: Candles:Beeswax Candle Supplies in catalog: Glorybee 120 N.Seneca Rd Eugene, Or. USA 97402 1 800 456 7923 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 Apr 1995 09:34:06 PDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Adrian Wenner Subject: Re: Request for Information Comments: To: Discussion of Bee Biology >> 1) First, I would like to know where I can obtain a copy of one of >> those blownup black & white (microscope) photos of the mite that lives >> in the eye lash roots of humans. Also does anyone know the name of this >> mite? > >It is in the genus Demodex (there may be many species, I'm not sure). >I don't know how close you are to a large library, but a medical >entomology book will have a picture of it. I don't have a specific >reference, sorry. A fairly complete account of , including black and white picture, can be found in Walter Ebeling's book, URBAN ENTOMOLOGY (1975, 1978: Div. of Agricultural Sciences, Univ. of Calif., Berkeley). Adrian *************************************************************** * Adrian Wenner E-Mail wenner@lifesci.lscf.ucsb.edu * * Department of Biology Office Phone (805) 893-2838 * * University of California Lab Phone (805) 893-2838 * * Santa Barbara, CA 93106 FAX (805) 893-4724 * *************************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 Apr 1995 12:36:56 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Richard A. Haver" Subject: Bees crawling around Yesterday I looked inside my hives for the first time this spring. 4 of 6 hives survived the winter. There was honey in the failed hives. However, there seemed to be an inordinate number of bees crawling around on the ground in front of the hives. Some were flying. I couldn't tell if the crawlers were deformed (would this be relevant to Varroa?). Anyone have any ideas if the crawlers are a sign of a problem? Rick Haver rhaver@dartmouth.edu ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 Apr 1995 10:28:50 PDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jane Beckman Subject: Re: Bees crawling around I had crawling bees at this time, last year, before the advent of my using Apistan. I thing it's been suggested that tracheal mites are the problem, here. I didn't have varroa, but I had LOTS of bees on the ground. I treated with Apistan, this winter, and have had no bees on the ground. Jane B. [jane@swdc.stratus.com] ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 Apr 1995 10:50:00 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Kerry Clark 784-2225 fax (604) 784 2299" Subject: Re: Bees crawling around Jane B. wrote: < Subject: Re: Bees crawling around Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: John Oldfather Subject: Winter hive loss At a recent meeting of the Ohio State Beekeepers Association, Dr. Jim Tew was the keynote speaker. He asked the participants how many had lost >50% of their hives; a third of the group raised their hands. He then asked how many had no losses and 15-20% responded. I am curious if the Bee-L subscribers have had similar experiences. Does the use of Apistan or other medication correlate with winter hive survival? I use Apistan prophyllactically, but I know many who don't. Thanks for any info. John Oldfather Joldfather@aol.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 Apr 1995 12:40:07 PDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Adrian Wenner Subject: Re: Bee swarms vs mating aggregations Comments: To: Discussion of Bee Biology Part of the message was as follows (relative to drone aggregations): >The swallows were up about 30 feet and the bees chased them up there >constantly. Since they were nesting and raising young, they had a >horrible time coming and going from the nest, and were always running >from bees. > >They (the swallows) blamed our cats and would swoop at them, so the cats hid >under the vehicles. This went on for several days as I recall. > >We had a hundred or so hives in the yard (large nucs). > >We speculated that the bees were drones because of the size and the >height and wondered if they were trying to mate the swallows. > >Anyone else ever see this? > >Allen > > >W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper VE6CFK Sorry for this delay in response, but all got too much. My impression (from observations) is that drones who perceive queen pheromone go pretty wild and will chase any moving object in sight. A similar phenomenon can be observed in the monarch butterfly aggregations in our area during the mating "orgy" that occurs in late February. Male monarchs (much easier to see than drone honey bees) chase just about anything moving through the air, even birds and dragonflies. Once female butterflies have mated several times, they leave the aggregation sites and search for milkweed plants; consequently, the male/female ratio increases and one finds males coupling with one another. Adrian *************************************************************** * Adrian Wenner E-Mail wenner@lifesci.lscf.ucsb.edu * * Department of Biology Office Phone (805) 893-2838 * * University of California Lab Phone (805) 893-2838 * * Santa Barbara, CA 93106 FAX (805) 893-4724 * *************************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 Apr 1995 14:50:19 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Michael Amspoker Subject: Re: Winter hive loss I have Varroa & tracheal mites in my small apiary of 10 colonies. Last fall after I pulled off the honey supers, I treated each colony with Apistan (2 strips/colony) and a grease patty with Terramycin. This spring each colony is very strong; so strong that most colonies are preparing to swarm. Mike Amspoker mamspokr@micro.wcmo.edu ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 Apr 1995 16:58:51 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Paige St. John" Subject: City Bees I'm looking for urban bee keepers, especially folks with hives in town and in cities. I am the environmental writer for The Detroit News (and a prospective bee keeper) and I'd like to hear some comments/tips on dealing with city ordinances, neighbors, pesticides, etc. Feel free to respond directly or through BEE-L. Cheers, Paige St. John Environment Writer The Detroit News 313/222-2751 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 Apr 1995 16:13:18 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Gerald Wallis Subject: Re: Winter hive loss In-Reply-To: <199504121920.AA00837@bugs.uark.edu> The northwest corner of Arkansas has been hit hard with losses from Varroa mites this past year. Many yards were 100% killed with lots of honey left on the hives. I finally was able to secure 2 live colonies for classroom demonstration use from a beekeeper who had 15 alive in 1994. These are under treatment with Apistan strips and Crisco patties. This is a hobbyist area and little treatment has been done in the past. The commercial operations in the eastern, Mississippi delta part of the state are fairing much better. Gerald Wallis | Internet: GWALLIS@BUGS.UARK.EDU A320 Dept. of Entomology | Ham: N5KKD@KA5BML.AR.USA.NOAM University of Arkansas | Phone: (501) 575-7689 Fayetteville, AR 72701 | Home Phone:(501) 524-3094 Home of the 1994 NCAA Basketball Champions GO HOGS !! ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 Apr 1995 15:01:27 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Casey Burns Subject: Re: Winter hive loss In-Reply-To: <199504122120.OAA30965@kendaco.telebyte.com> I lost all of my hives (5) this winter - probably from Varroa. I think that all of the wild hives in the area have been affected as well - nobody around here (including folks at a local garden store) has seen a single honey bee since last fall! Casey Burns Kingston WA ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 Apr 1995 19:11:16 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Malcolm (Tom) Sanford, Florida Extension Apiculturist" Subject: April issue of APIS Distributed to: USR:[MTS]INTERNET.DIS;58, mts FILENAME: APRAPIS.95 Florida Extension Beekeeping Newsletter Apis--Apicultural Information and Issues (ISSN 0889-3764) Volume 13, Number 4, April 1995 Copyright (c) 1995 M.T. Sanford "All Rights Reserved" IFAS SOFTWARE AND MEDIA The new catalog of IFAS (University of Florida College of Agriculture) Software and other media has just been published. It includes a wealth of material that the Cooperative Extension Service and others in the college have put together over the years. The cornerstone continues to be a CD-ROM, available for $125 to Florida residents or as a one-year subscription, guaranteeing two (2) updates ($200 for Florida residents). This CD-ROM database includes most of the publications available from the extension apiculturist. It also contains an enormous amount of information on beneficial insects, citrus, dairy, energy, soil, turfgrass, water quality and other topics. Elsewhere in the catalog, not on CD-ROM, are the insect and nematode control guides, and the hugely popular color sheets, showing a wide variety of insects. Finally, there is a list of software, including Profitability Model for a Mid-Sized Beekeeping Operation, produced by myself using Multiplan 1.0 ($25 for Florida Residents). For further information and to obtain a copy of the catalog, contact IFAS Publications, University of Florida, P.O. Box 110011, Gainesville, FL 32611-0011, ph 904/392-1764. QUEEN REARING RESOURCES Invasion of the African or Africanized honey bee, now called the AHB by some, continues. There have now been five confirmed finds in California. This makes four states in total which are affected by this controversial insect. Fortunately for Florida, the invasion has not advanced eastward as rapidly as predicted. For possible explanations of this phenomenon, see the July 1994 APIS. The AHB invasion has produced somewhat of a renaissance in the art of queen rearing. This has been compounded by Varroa mite infestation in most of the U.S. The long-range solution to this parasite, now under control by chemical application, is also considered to be honey bee breeding (See May and July 1993, and January 1995 APIS). Dr. Keith Delaplane in the April 1995 American Bee Journal published some observations on the basics of queen rearing. His remarks are based on the G.M. Doolittle's classic book Scientific Queen Rearing (1888). According to Dr. Delaplane, the concepts are: (1) motivating a colony to rear numerous queens, (2) providing the colony female larvae, of the beekeeper's choice, to rear queens, and (3) providing ideal mating conditions for the new queens. Two (2) new resources have appeared that are designed to help the beekeeper develop the queen rearing skills outlined by Dr. Delaplane. The first is the second edition of Rearing Queen Honey Bees by Dr. Roger Morse. According to Dr. Morse, "Queen rearing requires attention to detail. Queens vary greatly in size and weight; the greater the weight, the more ovarioles a queen has and the more eggs she will lay. The size of the queen is a direct result of how well she is fed and cared for during her growth and development, especially during the larval stage." [Editor's emphasis]. It is the section on stock selection and improvement that is really the basis for this second edition. Dr. Morse urges beekeepers not to be sold a bill of goods by those whose promotional skills are superior to their queen producing abilities. And he suggests that selection be confined to honey production and disease resistance. Breeder queens should also be chosen that have a good brood pattern. As Dr. Morse says, "A good queen has a compact brood nest. In colonies with good brood patterns, eggs are adjacent to eggs, larvae to larvae, and pupae to pupae." The chapter on Rearing Queens and Managing Africanized Bees also emphasizes stock improvement by describing experiences of beekeepers in areas influenced by Africanization. As part of this discussion, Dr. Morse attempts to define the word "Africanized." He says the term is used in Brazil to differentiate honeybees from Africa from stingless bees that are native to the Americas. He concludes that Africanized bees "have been crossed with the original European bees. They are predominantly African." [Editor's emphasis]. "Their size and behavior is (sic) similar to that of the bees on their native continent. On the average, Africanized honey bees are about ten percent smaller than their European counterparts, as are African honey bees." Rearing queens in AHB areas is only somewhat different from techniques used with European bees, according to Dr. Morse. Specifically, this includes using larger mating nuclei, taking care to locate colonies away from human habitation and dressing adequately to work with these sometimes very defensive insects. Rearing Queen Honey Bees is available from WICWAS Press, P.O. Box 817, Cheshire CT 06410-0817 for $14.95 plus postage, ph 203/250-7575. Dr. Marla Spivak and Gary Reuter of the University of Minnesota have recently produced a videotaped short course titled Successful Queen Rearing. Again, a major reason for its development is the impact of the AHB. This insect is not expected to survive in the temperate climate of the midwest. As a consequence, the authors say that the "..primary goal of this course...is to teach northern beekeepers methods of rearing their own queens so they have alternative sources of European queens." There is nothing very radical in this idea they claim, as Canadians have done it successfully for many years ever since closure of the U.S. border caused a queen shortage in that country. The authors encourage experimentation and conclude with the words of C.L. Farrar: "Poorly reared queens of productive stock generally will be inferior to well-reared queens from less productive stock." The video is a little over 13 minutes long and takes the student through the basics of queen rearing according to the Doolittle method. Specific techniques include establishing starting and finishing colonies, confining breeder queens to get correctly aged larvae for transferring (grafting), and introducing sealed, ripe queens cells into nuclei. Although the video is good quality, it is the accompanying manual that really stands out. This ambitious, oversized publication includes excellent graphics showing detailed plans of a push-in cage, larval grafting (transferring) tool and pollen trap; cell bar frames; two kinds of swarm boxes; several types of mating nuclei; and starting and finishing colony setups. Examples of record sheets to keep track of one's rearing efforts and other tips such as marking queens are also included in the manual. Finally, a calendar of queen rearing events is presented, along with a scheduling "wheel." Three circular paper wheels can be cut out and mounted together which, like a circular slide rule, will tell the producer what must be done during a calendar year, when given a starting or ending date. The manual and video are available for $45.00 from University of Minnesota Extension Service, Distribution Center, 20 Coffey Hall, 1420 Eckles Ave., St. Paul, MN 55108- 6069, ph 612/625-8120. In the above short course, Dr. Spivak liberally credits her queen rearing mentor, Steve Taber. And although not a new resource, Mr. Taber's book, Breeding Super Bees, published by the A.I. Root Co. in 1987 is one any aspiring queen producer should always have on hand. In contrast to the other resources outlined elsewhere in this newsletter, Mr. Taber's book is not so much a "how to" volume, but rather reflects his own experiences in several geographic areas, including Madison, WI, Baton Rouge, LA and Tucson, AZ. Two areas of Mr. Taber's book deserve particular attention. The first has to do with his ideas on nutritional management. These hark back to the resources listed elsewhere, both emphasizing well-reared queens by well-fed colonies. The other concerns bee breeding and selection, somewhat controversial topics not covered in much detail by many resources on queen rearing. Mr. Taber addresses the nutritional problem by asking a rhetorical question, when do queen rearing colonies need to be fed protein (pollen). Artificial feeding of queen rearing colonies is required when there are no drone larvae present, is Mr. Taber's unequivocal response. He suggests, therefore, that 25-50 drone cells be scattered throughout brood comb. As a corollary, he also states that the amount of stored pollen is a poor indicator of colony nutritional status. Thus, he concludes: "...successful queen rearing is directly related to drone rearing....Ample pollen enables bees to rear drones. Bees need a plentiful supply of a balanced diet year around and if there is a shortage they must be fed." [Editor's emphasis] The protein source in Mr. Taber's recipe (13 pounds of pollen per 2.75 pints of water per 13 pounds of sugar with applicable amounts of TM-25 and fumagillin) consists strictly of bee-collected pollen. He does not mention pollen substitute, but states: "In my opinion, the questions on pollen feeding and nutrition are foremost in areas of needed bee research....Since clear answers...have not been made available, arbitrary decisions on diet mixes, preparation and feeding have been the result." For other information on this subject, I still have available reprints of my 1992 Bee Science paper, "A Florida Honey-Bee Feeding Study Using the Beltsville Bee Diet," that I will send out on request. In contrast to the two other resources mentioned above, Mr. Taber's book goes into much more detail concerning bee breeding and stock selection. He advocates the use of single-drone instrumental insemination (SDM) as the preferred way to ensure maximum gene frequency change. In combination with SDM, a "closed population breeding" plan would ensure needed changes in the bee population, he says. These include resistance to pests and diseases and genetic manipulation of the AHB. However he says that an important theoretical problem still must be faced. This is the retention of sex alleles in the mating population. (For another analysis of this and other limitations to bee breeding, see the September 1992 APIS) Mr. Taber says: "...concepts...in the closed population breeding scheme are difficult to understand....However, both the methods used and the results obtained are very easy to understand." [Editor's note: Instrumental insemination instruction is available by contacting Susan Cobey, Department of Entomology, The Ohio State University, 1735 Neil Ave., Columbus, OH 43210, ph 614/292-7928.] Because of all the potential problems and limitations, Mr. Taber concludes "...it's best not to breed for honey production." "Of course," he adds, "my position is not supported by others....However the only published work on this...showed only a slight increase in honey production over 13 years of selection." Breeding Super Bees is available from A.I. Root Co., P.O. Box 706, Medina, OH 44258, ph 216/725-6677. It sells for $8.99 including postage. POLLINATOR'S BIBLE In the March 1995 APIS, I discussed the "pollinator's bible," Agriculture Handbook 497, Insect Pollination of Cultivated Crop Plants, by S.E. McGregor. Well, my pronouncement that it was not available was somewhat premature. Copies are still floating around. WicWas Press continues to sell them for $20.00 plus shipping and handling; see address above. And the Weslaco Bee Laboratory also has copies available at no charge while they last. To request a copy, contact Dr. Anita Collins, 2413 E. Highway 83, Bldg 205, Weslaco, TX 78596, ph. 210/969-4870. Sincerely, Malcolm T. Sanford Bldg 970, Box 110620 University of Florida Gainesville, FL 32611-0620 Phone (904) 392-1801, Ext. 143 FAX: 904-392-0190 BITNET Address: MTS@IFASGNV; INTERNET Address: MTS@GNV.IFAS.UFL.EDU APIS on the World Wide Web--http://gnv.ifas.ufl.edu/~entweb/apis/apis.htm Copyright (c) M.T. Sanford 1995 "All Rights Reserved" ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 Apr 1995 07:22:46 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Jeffrey P. Murray" Subject: Re: City Bees In-Reply-To: <199504122100.RAA11671@anvil.gatech.edu> (pstjohn@GREAT-LAKES.NET) > I'm looking for urban bee keepers, especially folks with hives in town and >in cities. I am the environmental writer for The Detroit News (and a >prospective bee keeper) and I'd like to hear some comments/tips on dealing >with city ordinances, neighbors, pesticides, etc. Feel free to respond >directly or through BEE-L. > >Cheers, > >Paige St. John >Environment Writer >The Detroit News >313/222-2751 I've been keeping bees in Atlanta off and on now for about 3 years. The problems I've encountered have been nothing special; I've taken care to make sure my hives are well within my property lines and situated so that flight paths do not interfere with neighbors, have kept relatively quiet about the hives' existence, and have found no regulations prohibiting beekeeping in city limits. WRT the latter, indeed I found considerable support for beekeeping within the regulatory arena; many of the extension agencies are keenly aware of the decline in feral bee populations and are actively encouraging the keeping of bees within cities (!). Jeff Murray ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 Apr 1995 12:29:54 +0100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Malcolm Roe Subject: Re: City Bees In-Reply-To: <199504122058.QAA25603@cedar.cic.net> from "Paige St. John" at Apr 12, 95 04:58:51 pm Paige St. John asks: > I'm looking for urban bee keepers, especially folks with hives in town and > in cities... I'd like to hear some comments/tips on dealing > with city ordinances, neighbors, pesticides, etc. There was a lot of discussion on the list last month about this subject, much of it under the subject heading "city vs country". I suggest you look up the archives. Send a message to the listserver saying:- get bee-l log9503 -- Malcolm Roe Phone : +44 1442 345104 Crosfield Electronics Ltd Fax : +44 1442 343000 Hemel Hempstead, Herts. HP2 7RH, UK E-mail : roe@crosfield.co.uk ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 Apr 1995 08:02:12 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Kelley Rosenlund 904-392-5551 Subject: Re: City Bees Paige, My name is Kelley & I bought my first hive just a few weeks ago. I live in Gainesville, Florida. As of yet the only interaction I have had with neighbors is one three houses down that has shown an interest in getting a hive herself. The main thing I have been concerned about is the bees drinking out of someones' pool etc. I have placed several watering "troughs" in my yard to encourage them to drink at home. Other than that no problems. Were you on the list when I posted the question concerning raising bees in the city vs country? God Bless, Kelley rosenlk@freenet.ufl.edu ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 Apr 1995 15:08:37 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Edward Sterling Subject: Varroa and Honey Cleanliness I am just a backyard hobbyist, 2 hives. I am just getting back into beekeeping, after a hiatus of 9 years. Does the Varroa mite end up in extracted honey at all, i.e. dead mites in the combs? If so, does the honey need to be carefully filtered. In my earlier experiences (1981-1986), I would filter out obvious large bits of flotsam, dead bees etc, but never put my honey through a fine filter (i.e. 1 mm or less). Is that now recommended? What would a hobbyist use? My honey used to be so thick I cannot imagine it passing through a very fine filter! Thanks Ed ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ed Sterling, GPCC | ACTUAL quotes from my kids: "Daddy, hummingbirds Bolton, MA 01740 USA | help the bees put honey in the flowers!" "In the Phone/FAX: 508-779-6058 | daytime, the sun melts the moon into cloudpieces!" "ed@gpcc.ultranet.com" | "A snowman makes the quietest sounds in the world" ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- http://www.ultranet.com/~ed => info about collecting toys from 1950s/60s/70s such as playsets, Army toys, GI Joe, cowboy gun sets, building sets, etc!! ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 Apr 1995 12:47:34 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Paul Cronshaw, D.C." Subject: Beekeeping Demonstrations to Children Does anyone know where I can get some good educational material on bees to help me with a presentation to young children? Things like large models of bee adults, colorful posters, and hands on material. Our younger generation needs to learn the benefits of beekeeping to flora and fauna. Thanks for any help. Paul Cronshaw DC cronshaw@rain.org ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 Apr 1995 22:29:03 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Joseph Cooper Subject: Re: Beekeeping Demonstrations to Children In-Reply-To: On Thu, 13 Apr 1995, Paul Cronshaw, D.C. wrote: > Does anyone know where I can get some good educational material on bees to > help me with a presentation to young children? > Try Dadant & Sons Hamilton, Il 62341 217-847-3324 A.I Root Company 623 West Liberty Street Medina, OH 44256 800-289-7668 Central Scientific Company 3300 Cenco Parkway Franklin Park, Ill 60131-1364 800-262-3926 Good luck. ************************* * Joseph Cooper * * jcooper@infinet.com * ************************* ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 Apr 1995 19:42:15 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Joan Tuckey Subject: Beekeeping Demos to Children Paul Cronshaw wrote: PC> Does anyone know where I can get some good educational material on PC> bees to help me with a presentation to young children? PC> Things like large models of bee adults, colorful posters, and hands PC> on material. PC> Our younger generation needs to learn the benefits of beekeeping to PC> flora and fauna. I am glad that you have the interest and time to undertake this very worthwhile mission. Good luck! Young chidren have a very short attention span. To overcome this I have used the following with them. When they start to get restless I would show them a complete frame - either with foundation or drawn out. Then, with the children in small groups, I would pass out new frame parts to each group. Then I would ask each group to put the parts together the same way that I would in my shop. For somewhat older children, as an extra challenge I would give each group one extra piece to test them a little. The children found this to be fun and usually turned the exercise into a race to be the first to complete a frame. Kenn Tuckey, Edmonton, Alberta (joan.tuckey@nn.lcrnet.org) ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 Apr 1995 01:29:10 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Gordon D. Hayes" Subject: IN Sen. Dan Coats As I wrote in my previous letter concerning Den. Dan Coats remarks about honeybee research, I faxed a letter to both my Senators from IN. I am planning on attending a Town Meeting with our freshman Federal Representative John Hostettler. I found out that Rep. Hostettler is on the Agricultural Committee in Washington D.C. Below is a copy of the letter I sent to Sen. Coats. I hope it is not too long. If it is I apoligize. I might add that Sen. Coats fax # is 1-202-228-4137. Send him a letter. We have to be vocal on this one or we could lose our bee research labs. Gordon D. Hayes 916 N. West St. Princeton, IN 47670 Hon. Sen. Daniel Coats 101 N. W. Martin Luther King, Jr. Blvd. Evansville, IN 47708 13 April 1995 Hon. Sen. Coats, It is with deep regret that I read a recent letter to the editor in the April issue of Bee Culture Magazine. As a beekeeper, I am appalled that you would make a comment that federal funding of research in regard to honeybees is a waste of taxpayers money. As a voter, I am appalled that you would make a comment such as you did about a subject that you yourself know little about. It is easy to suggest that funding for honeybee research should be cut. We all "know" that honeybees are dangerous insects that sting people and even attack people. Some people are even allergic to their sting and become sick. A few may even die as a result of being stung by the common honeybee. But far more people die from other less publicized means. I am sorry that I missed your meeting yesterday (12 April 1995) in Princeton, IN. I would have cherished the opportunity to inform you of the problems the United States faces concerning honeybees. But I will take this opportunity to shed some light on the subject for you. First of all, I am not a small backyard beekeeper. I have over 300 colonies/hives of honeybees that I rent out to farmers in neighboring Knox County, IN. I am renting a few colonies in my Gibson County. The primary crops that I rent my bees to pollinate are watermelon and canteloupe. This year, I will rent bees to a farmer to pollinate strawberries and blueberries. To put this in perspective, there are 24 farmers in Gibson County that raise crops that would benefit from honeybee pollination. This brings in an annual gross income of somewhere in the neighborhood of $1,000,000. About 1/5th of the amount you say the Federal Government wasted in honeybee research last year. There are probably twice that many farmers in Knox County that raise crops that benefit from honey bee pollination. The annual value of honeybee pollination in the United States has been estimated at over $1,000,000,000. Without crop pollination, many of the vegetables and fruits grown in the United States would not grow. I think you can understand the ramifications of this statement. Now for the problems that the United States has with honeybees. There are three major problems facing the beekeeping/pollination industry in America today. The first two are mites. Tracheal mites (Acarapis woodi Rennie) and Varroa mites (Varroa jacobsoni Oudmans). Both have caused considerable losses in both wild hives and managed colonies. Most wild hives in my area have been totally wiped out. Causing the local growers to depend upon the beekeeper and his/her managed colonies. At the same time, many beekeepers have suffered losses in great numbers. A few have lost nearly 100% of their hives. Presently there is only one approved treatment for Varroa infestation. And since only one company is licensed to supply this acaricide, they can charge extremely high prices for the treatment. And since it is either use the treatment or buy new bees each year, we use the treatment. The tracheal mite is somewhat easier to control. The third threat to the beekeeping/pollination business in the United States is the threat of Africanized Honey Bees, more commonly known as ""Killer Bees" by the sensationalizing media. They probably won't be a permanent problem in the state of Indiana. At least for now. Our winters are to cold for them. But this is something we will not know without research. So, in closing, I would like to make three suggestions to you. First of all, when you make a statement about the government wasting taxpayers' dollars; read up on the subject first. Secondly, don't take away our federal monies for bee research. $5,000,000 is a drop in the bucket when talking of the federal budget. And thirdly, call me and make an appointment to see how valuable honeybees are to the economy of this great country (or at least my little part of it). P.S. I have extra veils to keep the bees out of your face. Sincerely signed, Gordon D. Hayes ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 Apr 1995 11:38:59 -0300 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: NB*net - New Brunswick's Regional Network 1-800-561-4459 From: Nancy Hamilton Subject: Re: Beekeeping Demos to Children >Kenn Tuckey, Edmonton, Alberta wrote, >Young chidren have a very short attention span. To overcome this I have used >the following with them. When they start to get restless I would show them a >complete frame - either with foundation or drawn out. Then, with the children >in small groups, I would pass out new frame parts to each group. Then I would >ask each group to put the parts together the same way that I would in my shop. I haven't much experience :)(either as a beekeeper or as a 'demo person') but...when I showed my son's first and second grade class my 'girls' I handed out little pieces of beeswax to hang onto and smell and feel while I talked. I also asked them to do a taste test (pepsi challenge move over!) between 2 different kinds of honey (late season and early season)(done with those little saltine crackers)when they went back to their classroom (worked into their math class).And I talked a little about why the flavour was so different. It's been months but they still talk to me about my bees when I show up to pick my son up. It helped to that one of the boys was allergic and brought along his epi-pen and I had my epi-pen there too. The scary part was talked about pretty openly, while a bee investigated the honey on my ungloved hands.(no-one screamed or ran away :)!)( she for her part grinned at them and showed them how beautiful she was. whatta bee!) Oh and I gave them little tiny bits of wax I had melted into little tiny decorative muffin tins for them to keep.(looked like little blossoms) In Canada our national beekeeping council have just produced a new teachers packet (in french & another in english) to be used for in classroom instruction, but I only got it after the field trip. It looks very good. hope this helps! nancy. P.S. I really love that frame assembly 'race' idea! thanks! ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 Apr 1995 16:56:49 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Gordon D. Hayes" Subject: Re: Beekeeping Demonstrations to Children >Does anyone know where I can get some good educational material on bees to >help me with a presentation to young children? > >Things like large models of bee adults, colorful posters, and hands on material. > >Our younger generation needs to learn the benefits of beekeeping to flora >and fauna. You might try Walter T. Kelley's of Clarkson, KY. They are very helpful people. And their prices are VERY competitive. Their address and phone # are: Walter T. Kelley, Co., Inc. 3107 Elizabethtown Rd. P O Box 240 Clarkson, KY 42726-0240 Telephone: 1-502-242-2012 Fax: 1-502-242-4801 Toll Free for credit card orders only: 1-800-233-2899 Give them a call and ask for a catalog. They have some educational material available. Also Lawrence J. Connor (on this list or ljconnors@aol.com) of Wicwas Press could probably help you. gh gdhayes@evansville.net gordon.hayes@gccbbs.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 Apr 1995 19:48:45 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "La Reine de la Cite' des Phoques (Liz Day)" Subject: Re: Beekeeping Demonstrations to Children There is also a great book , a pop-up book, called THE BEE (I think) by Beth Norton or Nordon. Lots of colorful pix and brief info on ALL bees, not just social ones. Liz Day presently in New York City, USA receiving mail at lday@indy.net ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 15 Apr 1995 10:47:43 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "(Pat Ricci)" Subject: Buckwheat Honey source ? Can anyone suggest a source of Buckwheat honey in 50 to 100 lb quantities ? I live in Central NJ and am looking for a location relatively close to home.. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 15 Apr 1995 10:57:44 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "(Pat Ricci)" Subject: Buckwheat Honey Source ? Can anyone suggest a source of buckwheat honey in quantities of 50 to 100 lbs? I live in Central NJ and would like to find a source relatively close to home. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 16 Apr 1995 05:25:43 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: HARRIGER@EDINBORO.EDU Subject: QUEENS Hi, I would like to requeen two of my hives and produce comb honey. I have a few people asking about old fashioned comb honey and they indicate that it is hard to find. I have read a lot about producing comb honey but the bee keepers (authors) neglect to mention where they get their queens, hence the problem. Where do I purchase queens that are better adapted at producing bees that make beautiful comb honey. I would not like to spend a lot of money and time finding out which queens do the best job. Has anyone got any ideas ? I do like to experiment and have bought different breeds of bees each year but my wife is about to her limit on the number of hives that she thinks should be at the house. I have moved some of the hives to a farm some three miles away so it won't be as crowed at home. Thanks for the input. As you can probably guess I do not want to make a lot of comb honey. Only enough to satisfy the needs of a small group of individuals who like the taste of the comb. :-) ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 16 Apr 1995 17:59:23 GMT Reply-To: Gordon@apis.demon.co.uk Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Gordon Scott Subject: Re: QUEENS > Hi, > I would like to requeen two of my hives and produce comb honey. I > have a few people asking about old fashioned comb honey and they indicate > that it is hard to find. Hi, There are no special requirement for queens for producing comb honey. The special requirements are more how you yourself handle it. Mostly, I think beekeepers just don't want the bother of fiddling about with all that sticky comb :-) You will have to select a little for nice clean comb. Sections _are_ more tricky. I've recently seen a rather neat technique which I plan to try and which I shall pass on. A beekeeper here leaves his comb honey to set in the comb, then cuts it to fit the little plastic boxes we use here, making up the weight with liquid honey if necessary. Then he puts boxes into his warming cabinet set to 45C and melts the honey. The comb doesn't colapse because it's supported in the boxes. Regards, -- Gordon Scott Gordon@apis.demon.co.uk 100332,3310 on CompuServe Newsletter Beekeeper@apis.demon.co.uk ditto Beekeeper, Kendo Sandan, sometime sailor. Basingstoke, Hampshire, RG22 5HP, UK ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 16 Apr 1995 17:47:11 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Dave Green, Eastern Pollinator Newsletter" Subject: Re: QUEENS HARRIGER@EDINBORO.EDU asks: >>Where do I purchase queens that are better adapted at producing bees that make beautiful comb honey. The particular race of queens is not nearly so important as the management. That is not to say that different queens do not vary in ability to produce fine quality comb, but it tends to be randomly scattered throughout all kinds of bees. I only do a little comb, but I tend to select bees for this on the basis of them already having started producing prior to supering for comb. Also, swarms are usually better for making comb honey than established hives. You can place the entire swarm on foundation, feed a couple days, then place comb honey supers on. They are already primed for drawing comb. You can also create artificial swarms. But more info on management needs to be specific to your area and its flows. You did not identify your area. Perhaps you could get more from us, if we had more specifics. Pollinator@aol.com Dave Green PO Box 1215, Hemingway, SC 29554 ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 16 Apr 1995 21:26:40 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Bill Russell Subject: Re: Buckwheat Honey Source ? In reply to your request I hope this helps. Draper's Super Bee Apiaries in Millerton PA 1 800 233-4273. They have Buckwheat as well as other spec specialty honeys like Tulip Poplar, alfalfa, florida orange blossom, Florida Tupelo, goldenrod, and basswood as well as wildflower and clover. Their prices range betueen $ 21- $25 per gallon (12#) $57-79 per 5 gallon pail (60#) [buckwheat is listed at $62]. Smaller jars are also available. >From the Metuchen - New Brunswick NJ area where I grew up this would be about a 5 hour ride, but they ship, and I go past ocassionally on my trips to the folks and might be able to work something out with you. Mention my name if you call Draper's as I am going to try to get them to buy my excess honey this year. If you need more info contact me directly. Bill Russell Bee Charmer's Pure Gathered Honey Products, P O Box 1121, Alfred, NY 14802 e-mail russell@bigvax.alfred.edu phone/fax 607 587-8127 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 Apr 1995 07:32:37 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Aaron Morris Subject: Queens for comb honey production Comments: To: bee-l@ALBANY.BITNET A very good book I would recommend for learning about comb honey is Killion's _Honey_in_the_Comb_, available from Dadant. It covers techniques for producing comb honey and for producing your own queens specially suited for producing comb honey. Comb honey production requires a prodigious hive and a prolific queen. There are other traits that make a colony superior for comb production, such as the LACK of a tendency to build burr and brace comb. Also, the Ross Round sections are preferred by the bees to the square sections, as the round sections have no corners to fill. Bees are hesitant to work in the corners. You may want to drop W. Allen Dick a line. Aaron Morris - thinking about comb honey! ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 Apr 1995 08:06:22 +22300129 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Adam Finkelstein Subject: Re: Queens for comb honey production In-Reply-To: <199504171135.HAA105614@ipe.cc.vt.edu> from "Aaron Morris" at Apr 17, 95 07:32:37 am Aaron Morris, wrote: > > A very good book I would recommend for learning about comb honey is > Killion's _Honey_in_the_Comb_, available from Dadant. It covers > techniques for producing comb honey and for producing your own queens > specially suited for producing comb honey. This is an excellent all around beekeeping book too. Adam -- ______________________________________ Adam Finkelstein adamf@vtaix.cc.vt.edu ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 Apr 1995 10:08:13 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "A woman is only a woman, but a good cigar is a smoke.--R. Kipling" Subject: Use of Moldy Frames Comments: To: "bee-l@albany.edu%rapnet.dnet"@rapnet.sanders.lockheed.com Hi. This weekend I opened a beeyard I keep in Southern Maine (USDA Zone 6). The plan was to remove the winter protection on the hives, repair any damage and install four new hives of package bees. It was my intentention to "quickstart" the brand new hives with a few drawn-out frames from the existing hives. All the hives survived the winter. However there was alot of blue- green mold on the frames of the bottom deep supers and the bottom boards. I suspect I was over zealous in wrapping the hives and a moisture problem developed. I've never seen this much mold in hives. I was able to scrape the bottom boards clean, but, I was going to reverse them (to their higher entranced "seasonal"side) anyway. The problem I have is with the moldly frames. I did not want to use them with the new hives. I was concerned the new hives might be too weak at first to handle any disease or parasites associated with them. Eventually, I replaced the mouldiest frames with new spares I was carrying. But, I had to use far fewer drawn-out frames (the best of the lot from the in-place hives bottom supers) then I would have preferred in the new hives. My question is what can I do with these moldy frames? Can they be cleaned? Was I being over cautious? Should they be destroyed? They are all Permadent(tm), so I'd like to save them if possible. Please advise. PLEASE RESPOND VIA E-MAIL. I WILL REPOST A SUMMARY WITH APPROPRIATE CREDITS. jps jschroeder@nhqvax.sanders.lockheed.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 Apr 1995 12:15:30 U Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Larry Farris Subject: PermaDent Foundation Subject: Time:11:48 AM OFFICE MEMO PermaDent Foundation Date:4/17/95 This question is sent in regard to PermaDent fountation (as sold by Mann Lake). I started using this type of foundation three years ago primarily because I understood that it was reusable. The actual plastic is imprinted with the honeycomb structure and has a coating of bees wax on it. Since some of my brood frames are now getting fairly old and dark, I would like to clean these up. My question involves how to go about doing this. When I have just scraped off the old drawn wax, the bees have a strong tendency to draw out drone-sized cells rather than worker cells (even though on the new, original foundation they had drawn worker cells before). Has anyone else experienced this? If you have solved this problem please advise me of the proper technique on the refurbishment of Permadent foundation. Thanks - larry.farris.0247255@nt.com (N. Texas) ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 Apr 1995 10:25:26 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Gerard Worrell Subject: The Frugal Beekeeper The magazine "Sheep!" has a column called the Frugal Shepherd, devoted to cost saving practices submitted by readers. I'd like to initiate a discussion on cost saving practices in beekeeping. Pleae feel free to submit a comment. To start the ball rolling....... The cost of paint is usually too high for my blood, $11-15 a gallon for basic white. I stop by the mis-mixed paint department and pick up some at relatively low price $1.00 /qt or $2.97 /gal. This serves two purposes. I repaint my hives more often and I introduce variety in the beeyard. It helps the bees cut down on drift with the different colors and I can also mark supers differently. (one color for round sections, another for cut comb, yet another for different sizes). I marked a few brood chambers with vertical stripes, triangles or circles. Use your imagination. Jerry Worrell,Dunkirk MD. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 Apr 1995 16:42:25 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Dave Green, Eastern Pollinator Newsletter" Subject: Re: Buckwheat Honey Source ? >Draper's Super Bee Apiaries in Millerton PA 1 800 233-4273. They have Buckwheat as well as other specialty honeys... I can recommend Drapers as well. They are good folks. Burkett Mills in Penn Yan, NY is one of the few places left that buy buckwheat, so farmers in the Finger Lakes, western NY and North- Central PA co ntract with them. They are also a good place to buy seed, if you'd like to sow a patch of buckwheat. Plant in mid to late July in the northeast on the poorest soil you have. Do not use lime or fertilizer. You'll get some nice honey, and later on will feed wildlife. Stop and visit; it's an interesting place. They also will ship seed UPS. Pollinator@aol.com Dave Green Eastern Pollinator Newsletter, PO Box 1215, Hemingway, SC 29554 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 Apr 1995 16:42:26 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Dave Green, Eastern Pollinator Newsletter" Subject: Re: The Frugal Beekeeper worrell@CBL.UMD.EDU (Gerard Worrell): >I'd like to initiate a discussion on cost saving practices in beekeeping. Please feel free to submit a comment. Thanks, you hit a favorite theme of mine. I don't have another job to support my beekeeping, so I have to cut costs to the bone. Here's a few of my *secrets.* 1. 15# roofing felt: One of the handiest materials I know. We use a piece of it in an old deep with one good side to make a nearly free nuc box, which can vary from 3-6 frames. The felt wraps over the top and alongside the last frame. If the cut is made dead center in the roll, it will leave a tiny gap on the ends of the frames for an entrance. Also, it can be used in a pinch for bottom boards on pallets, especially if the deep has a hole or a bad corner for an entrance. Even for covers for a short time. 2. Your local soft drink manufacturer likely has numerous barrels and tanks of various sizes. Most are plastic, so are not useful for CCC loans, but can be used for settling tanks, syrup feeding, etc. Very cheap, and safe, since only drink syrups have been in them. 3. Donut shops generally have used pails that have had fillings in them. I like the four gallon size best, but they come in various sizes, for a buck or so. One and two gallon sizes are good for syrup feeders. Much of the chili used on southern style hot dogs comes in one or two gallon plastic containers. Some hot dog stands will give them to you, others charge a nominal price. Good for feeders. 4. Our covers are all 16x20 plywood, generally 1/2 inch, though, if we can get used or discount we sometimes use 5/8 or 3/4. Telescoping covers are bulky, expensive, and make bees very difficult to load on the truck. The insulation value is minor, and, if bees are kept in the shade in hot weather, and given wind shelter in winter, are not really necessary. Plywood lasts longer if it is dipped in paint, rather than painted with a brush. If they will be opened again before the next move, a brick on the cover will keep it from blowing. A flat brick is just to hold it down, one on its side means they need feed. A brick standing on end means they need another check. The queen is not yet mated, she may be failing, or there is chalkbrood or other reason to give them more attention. When we prepare bees for moving, the covers are nailed with 3 or 4 penny sinker nails. Covers that have warped are turned over. The burr comb melts and serves as a preservative, and the warp goes the other way.. 5. Do you have a pallet mill near you. We had one that recently went out of business, much to my dismay. They could not use boards that were less than 2 feet in length, so they gave them away for firewood. Some was cypress, which the owner would set aside and save for me, as I kept him liberally supplied with honey - the only cost besides hauling. 6. Duct tape. Another handy material, especially if the bees want to rob, and your equipment is old. Great for when the kids won't keep their seat belts fastened, too. Now it's your turn...... Pollinator@aol.com Dave Green, PO Box 1215, Hemingway, SC 29554 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Apr 1995 07:24:11 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Charles Brand Subject: Honey Mustard I'd appreciate a copy of your favorite HONEY MUSTARD recipe. Thanks. Charles Brand ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Apr 1995 12:12:23 GMT Reply-To: Gordon@apis.demon.co.uk Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Gordon L. Scott" Subject: Re: The Frugal Beekeeper Hi, Various of us here get used litho plates as a source of aluminium (UK spelling & pronunciation) sheet for roofs, solar wax extractors and anywhere else we want thin sheet. It's available from most printers for free or for some honey. -- Gordon Scott Gordon@apis.demon.co.uk Compuserve 100332,3310 Gordon@multitone.co.uk Basingstoke Beekeeper Beekeeper@apis.demon.co.uk ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Apr 1995 08:27:48 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Kelley Rosenlund 904-392-5551 Subject: Re: The Frugal Beekeeper As to sources of paint... My brother owns a business painting houses and often times he has leftover paint. Here in Florida it is against the law to throw away paint (fear of groundwater contamination) so you have to take it to a "hazardous materials" collection center and pay to have it disposed of properly. He is more than happy for me to use his leftovers. Take a walk through the yellow pages and see if there are any painters in your area that have leftovers that they need to dispose of. Kelley rosenlk@freenet.ufl.edu ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Apr 1995 11:43:08 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Gerard Worrell Subject: Re: Frugal Beekeeper, cont. In-Reply-To: <199504180408.AAA02360@cbl.umd.edu> A quick method of adding a feeder on top of a colony, suggested by our state bee inspector. Put syrup in a ziplock bag and lay on top of the brood chamber. Enclose with an empty shallow super and slit the flat bag with a razor blade. The surface tension keeps the syrup from running out especially if it is a flat surface. ( May pose a problem with inspecting later if they haven't taken all the syrup? Just lift the bag by the slit edges and lay on the inner cover. Did not pose a problem while my bees were inspected today!) Save those worn brood chambers with corners broken off, some mouse damage,etc. I use plastic wood, miracle wood, ( whatever brand is available) to fill holes. Splice in a piece of wood if the damage is worse. Last resort, cut down to Illinois or shallow super size for an extra super. A shallower piece can be used for feeding with the Ziplock bags. Keeping that piece of equipment in use one more season can be a help. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Apr 1995 11:41:25 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Dave Green, Eastern Pollinator Newsletter" Subject: McGregor on Chestnuts Re: Questions on pollination of chestnut trees: --from Insect Pollination of Cultivated Crop Plants by S. E. McGregor, USDA handbook #496, 1976 Chestnuts were formerly considered to be wind pollinated, but a study in 1972 by J. W. McKay questioned this. > "He indicated that honey bees, rose chafers, and wild bees are highly beneficial to chestnut in the transfer of pollen, and they frequently visit the staminate flowers in large numbers. He also considered that for highest production on younger trees, a high population of pollinators is especially needed. If production of newer cultivars and hybrids expands, the value of insects in cross-pollination for maximum set should be more fully explored." > "There are no recommendations on the use of pollinating insects on chestnut although evidence shows they are needed." Note: McGregor compiled much of the research data available up to 1976, and we owe him a great debt. Now an update of the manual is badly needed. With the passing of two decades of increasing monoculture, clearcut logging, pesticide misuse, parasitic mites, and beekeepers quitting, the pollination picture has greatly changed. Pollinator@aol.com Dave Green ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Apr 1995 11:19:32 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: David Brown Subject: First hive in 15 years On Saturday the 15th I installed my fist package of bees. They are Buckfast. All went well and it is good to be back into beekeeping. Saturday was sunny and the temp was in the 70s. Since then we have been having hard rain off and on so they have had little time to fly. I have fed them a quart of surup and they have less then a quarter of that left. The last time I kept bees was in the 80's. I lived in Northern California at the time and managed 12 hives of Italians and Caucasians. Back then we didn't wory about Verrona. Now I live in Blue Springs, Missouri, suburb of Kansas City, on two acres. Thank for all the information on the list. David N. Brown Blue Springs, MO ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Apr 1995 13:08:56 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: John Bongiovanni Subject: Re: The Frugal Beekeeper Some years ago I read - I think in "Gleanings" - that a beekeeper in Pennsylvania was using a couple of menthol cough drops per colony to control tracheal mites. Has anyone on the net tried this? Any success? BTW this seems like a good thread. Some neat suggestions already. : /``` . _ || : @@--9 `` ".";; " ((0)) || |||||||||||||| : <\,\\_ ` " "'"" (((0))) || When pleasure :\\ ^/(8)\\ "",", ((((0)))) || Remains... : \\((0))// "","(((((0))))) || Can It Remain : ///\\\ //\ ((((((")))))) || A Pleasure! : // \\// ---- ||jbongie@delphi.com || |||||||||||||| | _\\ ======= ||John C. Bongiovanni|| ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Apr 1995 12:10:12 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Mike Quimby Subject: Re: First hive in 15 years Greetings all! I too this past weekend installed my first EVER packages of bees (Buckfast, as well). I had been anticipating Bee Day for months, and now they are buzzing around the alfalfa field bringing in the dandelion pollen. I set up some lawn chairs nearby to watch them come and go through my binoculars. I am glad and proud to say I am now a beekeeper! Spring has finally arrived in central Indiana! Mike Quimby Shirley, IN m.quimby@lilly.com From: QUIMBY MICHAEL E (MCVAX0::RK81239) To: FOREIGN TRANSPORT ADDRESSEE (MCDEV1::IN%"BEE-L@UACSC2.ALBANY.EDU") ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Apr 1995 13:47:44 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Dave Green, Eastern Pollinator Newsletter" Subject: Re: Senator Coats jab at us Comments: To: gdhayes@evansville.net gdhayes@evansville.net (Gordon D. Hayes) by e-mail to me proposed: >Sen. Daniel R. Coats (R) IND. says: "Screw worms and honey bees. It is hard to believe that taxpayer's hard-earned dollars are used to support programs that intersect with these little creatures, but they do. And it has to end. Now." >He adds that $5 million were appropriated last year to research them. He says the United States doesn't have a problem with honey bees. He also says that privately funded research would work just as well. >Maybe we should inundate Sen. Coats with letters telling him just what kinds of problems the United States has with honey bees. I myself am going to write him a letter and invite him to come visit with some local beekeepers and see for himself. Okay, here's mine, and I hope you don't mind my sharing it on the bee list and elsewhere. (Apologies to those outside the USA) April 16, 1995 Hon. Sen. Daniel Coats 101 N. W. Martin Luther King, Jr. Blvd. Evansville, IN 47708 Dear Sen. Coats, I feed you every day! I am really upset by your slap at my endeavors. You don't seem to realize it, but I am one of the producers (and proud of it!) of this country. My bees pollinate several million dollars worth of South Carolina and Florida produce. Watermelon, squash, cantaloupes, cucumbers, strawberries, apples and kiwifruit are a few of the crops Ipollinate by contract with farmers. It is outrageous that you seem to think that bees are irrelevant in our agriculture, and are anxious to cut the modicum of support for this very troubled industry. You maintain that there is no problem with honeybees and the tiny amount of research has to be cut. The government spends lots of money supporting parasites; but cannot toss a few crumbs to producers??! The wild bees are gone; the farmers are relying on me to make their crops, but I am having a hard time keeping the bees alive, and there are never enough hives for the need. When you slice a watermelon and see that half the seeds are white, you already know that it will not taste good. And it never will, because it is onl y half pollinated; it cannot fully ripen. The farmer did not have enough bees for the 8-20 visits required to the female blossom in the couple hours it is viable. Applications of pesticides made in violation of label directions (pesticide MISuse) weakens and kills my livestock. And authorities look the other way, refusing to enforce pesticide laws that protect bees. Would our society tolerate mass poisonings of any other kind of livestock? New diseases and parasites are also battling them, greatly increasing my expenses. I do not receive compensation anywhere near proportional to the contribution I make to society. I have done it for years for the love of the job and the bees, but I am getting tired. We have lost a third of our beekeepers in the last ten years. If and when the beekeepers are gone, you will see the Apocalyptic horseman (Famine) ride in the land. One third of our food must have bees, and almost all of these must be supplied in modern agriculture. Pollination does not just happen. It is a necessary part of farm management. Honey is almost irrelevant in the evaluation of the worth of honeybees. I hope you will seek out and find better sources of information on honeybees and pollination, before you take any action. I am sure you will then become an advocate for the bee industry. I am preparing bees right now to go to watermelons, cucumbers and other fields. I would be pleased to show you (in person) just what this involves, and how much work I do to feed you. Come and visit. Sincerely yours, David L. Green cc: Will be provided other interested parties ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Apr 1995 12:11:00 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Paul van Westendorp 576-5600 Fax: 576-5652" Subject: Re: Senator Coats jab at us David, Don't apologize to the non-American readers! I am sure plenty outside the US are interested in following the response of US beekeepers to Sen. Coats intelligent remarks about honeybees. I suppose there is a larger issue here. In many countries, there are similar threats of reducing or eliminating apicultural research and programs by governments in their attempts to address defecits and debt. So, the underlying purpose is not necessarily a bad one (ie. to reduce government costs), but the politics surrounding it. It would be most regrettable when valuable research programs (and the human expertise associated with it) would be completely disbanded for political convenience while based on incorrect or incomplete information. As Mr. Coats has so eloquently demonstrated, there is an ongoing need for us, collectively, to educate and keep our politicians informed about the indispensable role of bees in modern agriculture. We must also make them aware of the problems faced by the industry and that support in research and development is very valuable and cost effective, especially when industry has direct involvement in the research direction and its implementation. If reductions are to come, (in whatever country) lets do our best to support our politicans by offering well-reasoned and correct information. Only then can we expect or hope for an intellegent decision. My best wishes to the American beekeeping industry for their efforts to keep apicultural research going! Paul van Westendorp pvanwesten@galaxy.gov.bc.ca Provincial Apiarist British Columbia ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Apr 1995 16:07:25 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Kelley Rosenlund 904-392-5551 Subject: Re: First hive in 15 years Congratuations David on your new hive!!! Kelley rosenlk@freenet.ufl.edu ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Apr 1995 16:09:15 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Kelley Rosenlund 904-392-5551 Subject: Re: First hive in 15 years Congratulations to you to Mike!!! ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 Apr 1995 18:09:40 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Subject: Re: The Frugal Beekeeper In-Reply-To: <9504171845.AA19494@cuugnet.cuug.ab.ca> On Mon, 17 Apr 1995, Gerard Worrell wrote: > > The cost of paint is usually too high for my blood, $11-15 a gallon > for basic white. I stop by the mis-mixed paint department and pick up > some at relatively low price $1.00 /qt or $2.97 /gal. This serves two > purposes. I repaint my hives more often and I introduce variety in the > beeyard. It helps the bees cut down on drift with the different colors Up here there is ahazardous waste cleanup every year and people turn in unwanted chemicals. There is always a lot of paint that can be had for free. W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper VE6CFK Rural Route One Swalwell Alberta Canada T0M 1Y0 Email: dicka@cuug.ab.ca or allend@internode.net Virtual Art Gallery: http://www.cuug.ab.ca:8001/~dicka __________________Why not drop by?____________________ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 Apr 1995 00:45:00 +0200 Reply-To: DURK ELLISON Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: DURK ELLISON Organization: Metropoli, Finland Subject: Book search AD> Subj: Re: McGregor's Pollination "Bible" AD> Does anyone know who is selling this book and for how much? AD> On Mon, 10 Apr 1995, Kenna MacKenzie wrote: DE> W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper VE6CFK DE> Rural Route One Swalwell Alberta Canada T0M 1Y0 DE> Email: dicka@cuug.ab.ca or allend@internode.net DE> Virtual Art Gallery: http://www.cuug.ab.ca:8001/~dicka DE> __________________Why not drop by?____________________ If anyone should know it would be the IBRA. If it's bee related they can tell you. If it's out of print their library will have a copy to lend. In fact if your looking for any information related to bees (in almost any language) it's probably in their library. If its available for sale their book store will have it. So far they've have never failed me. They're a non-profit outfit so their copying prices are very reasonable especially to supporting members. They can be reached at the following e-mail addresses: BeeNet 240:244/102 internet ibra@cardiff.ac.uk I hope this helps..... DDD? @DDD> Best regards from, Durk Ellison. oh2zas ..... Written offline on 19.Apr.1995 at 00.15 Hrs .!. Eye bee a busy bee, eye bee, on BeeNet --- Terminate 1.51/Pro * Origin: * BeeNet: The Bee Hive - Vantaa FIN (240:2358/100) ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Apr 1995 23:44:11 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Dave Green, Eastern Pollinator Newsletter" Subject: The Un-Frugal Beekeeper The frugal beekeeper thread got me thinking of some costly things I have done. Perhaps mention might help others avoid such dumb mistakes. 1. Reinventing the solar wax melter: - Leaving a box of foundation in the truck cab on a 90 degree day. 2. Placing nucs (5 frame starter hives) in a yard with a half dozen full str ength hives, and giving each a frame of honey for feed without reducing the entrance, on a dark, drizzly spring day. 3. Placing heavy deep supers of honey on the tail-end tier of the truck and running rough roads. (If it *has* to be done, they can be placed upside down.) 4. My eight-year-old son was watching the dog lick his hind end. "Why does he do that, Dad?" "Son, your mom just gave him the leftover meatloaf, and he's trying to get the taste out of his mouth." (How would I know he'd tell her?) Pollinator@aol.com Dave Green 'PO Box 1215, Hemingway, SC 29554 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 Apr 1995 14:03:34 +0100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: johan calis Subject: ...no subject... Hi! Bee-L users I am working on American Foulbrood and I would like to know if someone knows about references or has experiences about the relation of the colony size to hygienic behaviour (removing and uncapping of infested or killed brood). THANK'S Isabel and Johan ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 Apr 1995 15:15:47 GMT+2 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: MIKE ALLSOPP Organization: NIPB Subject: Addresses Requested Hi Bee-Lings, I need some help re some USA addresses. Firstly, can anyone give me a postal address for the Day-Glo Color Corp, in Cleveland Ohio. They produce fluorescent pigments that were used by some researchers from Michigan State University some time ago, and I need this stuff for a trial. Secondly, can anyone give me an email address for Dr Eric Erickson in Tucson. Many thanks and greetings Mike Allsopp MIKE ALLSOPP HONEYBEE RESEARCH DIVISION PLANT PROTECTION RESEARCH INSTITUTE P/BAG X5017, STELLENBOSCH, 7599 SOUTH AFRICA INTERNET : PPRIMA@PLANT1.AGRIC.ZA TELEFAX : (021) 883-3285 TELEPHONE: (021) 887-4690/1 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 Apr 1995 07:57:08 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Eric Abell Subject: Re: The Frugal Beekeeper In-Reply-To: <9504190104.AA115526@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca> I, too, used to find mistints at a local paint supply outlet. Then I decided that when the time comes to repaint I would be better off if my equipment was all one colour so I changed back to white. While my logic was sound, I look back and see that I made this decision about 15 years ago and have not yet done any significant amount of repainting. Eric Abell email: eabell@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca Gibbons, AB, T0A 1N0 Canada (403) 998 3143 On Mon, 17 Apr 1995, Allen Dick wrote: > On Mon, 17 Apr 1995, Gerard Worrell wrote: > > > > The cost of paint is usually too high for my blood, $11-15 a gallon > > for basic white. I stop by the mis-mixed paint department and pick up > > some at relatively low price $1.00 /qt or $2.97 /gal. This serves two > > purposes. I repaint my hives more often and I introduce variety in the > > beeyard. It helps the bees cut down on drift with the different colors > > Up here there is ahazardous waste cleanup every year and people turn in > unwanted chemicals. > > There is always a lot of paint that can be had for free. > > > W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper VE6CFK > Rural Route One Swalwell Alberta Canada T0M 1Y0 > Email: dicka@cuug.ab.ca or allend@internode.net > Virtual Art Gallery: http://www.cuug.ab.ca:8001/~dicka > __________________Why not drop by?____________________ > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 Apr 1995 09:07:55 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Reid Walker Subject: Bee Research I am a high school biology teacher and also a beekeeping hobbiest (3 hives, one is particularly bad shape).I teach a section of Advanced Biology to seniors and most of these students are planning to become biologists. After 8 months of pushing them through the rigors of modern biochem and genetics and embryology (etc) I like to let them loose on current research being done in areas that I am interested in. Naturally, that's bees. We are currently looking at 2 problems: 1) What frequencies of sound can bees detect? 2) Population genetics and evolution of bees with particular interest in changes in the enzyme malate dehydrogenase (MDH)in bee populations throughout the world. Last year we made some progress on the sound problem but ran into some technical difficulties which led us to doubt our results. We are very interested in hearing from anyone who can point us to methods of operant conditioning in bees: our main problems were in the areas of holding them down during training, possible stimulus-response methods and sound delivery systems. If anyone can offer help, we would really appreciate it. My e-mail address is rwalker@bvsd.k12.co.us Thanks, Reid Walker ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 Apr 1995 11:38:30 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: duncan_floyd@WPO.NCCU.EDU Subject: BEE PROBLEM NEED YOUR HELP. begin 666 bquestio.wpd M_U=00X<#```!"@(``````@4```#`!@````(``*J2>_JC>P<)D/ MJHP17LJ$7'I?`-W23HI0(QX)6J''`9>LZNEB-!8(FIS<06OV+`J,`[P9*I(Q]I" M1_AR7%7Z0=?@.\04J1K$5EK@RQCP/1NJ6>H>0QW%'F24V)E)VQR=@"9!U$CA MD-?%A=[/*?T0)5%$ML5+WS0GT#X&D>XY2O:G)G*7T%,]>8#XT_E;R< M=-/.99?17K.Y+4L+Y#6/Q$\*KX*9):TU3F@(_-/9+^KL0HS%NSYP,M4B0AO< MV)X\5\17F'-C"9/5+72RTS!<3:V(L?5[OCTY70WCB#)B*B,"=DKZ\>Y7<55% M0;]I8QQD7@!I7EI*9B7TT3SZ0*-Y"X]NP0VH3V?+,_;'%C@X/DIDJ!1(_FE9 MAC8.[7#^\0:(/_D@_GS(TJWS`C7)=1B8X"``<```````````````@C`0```(8```!B`@`` M`%4!````3@```.@"```))0$````&````-@,```LP`@```"@````\`P``"#0! M````%````&0#```(`@$````/````>`,```"82`!0`"``3`!A`',`90!R`$H` M90!T`"``20!)`$D`1``````````````````````````````````````````` M``````````````!(4%!#3#5-4P``````+`$L`2P!+`$L`2P!+`$L`3`````` M`0`2V5`)OTE.%)]:&`"W7@!-KP=$30P`*`#6'L,/.0@``!$)````6@`+`0"+ M%#8`5`!I`&T`90!S`"``3@!E`'<`(`!2`&\`;0!A`&X`(`!2`&4`9P!U`&P` M80!R`````````````0`"`%@"`0````0`*``````````````````````````! M$@(`)`"A````H0```"MI3AX`````````````````````"#-\`'@``0(``(\` M```#W0H0`(,!!``#``(`(1``W=T+"P`#```$"P#=455%4U1)3TXZ@(!(;W>` M9&^`>6]U@'!R979E;G2`65A` M:&]N97DN@#,I@$%T@'1H872`=&EM92R`28!F:6QL@'1H98!A8!S=6=G97-T:6]N Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "La Reine de la Cite' des Phoques (Liz Day)" Subject: clearly he DOES need our help - What the heck was THAT??!! q32p409578 v;sdkjfp[fmosauhaiuqw3u to you! :-) Liz Day presently in New York City, USA receiving mail at lday@indy.net (that's an 'L', not a 'one') ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Apr 1995 20:00:15 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jeffrey Young Subject: Address for equipment supplier I am interested in contacting the manufacturer of a product known as PERMA-COMB. This is a pre- drawn out, plastic comb product that I have been using for the past few years in my honey supers. Chief benefit is that the bees do not have to use resources to draw out wax cells before they can deposit the honey in the frame. Last year this product worked quite well for me and extracted with minimal effort. The last I knew it was manufactured by J&M American Honey & Mfg, PO Box 182, Hemet, CA 92342 I would like to place an order but do not have a telephone listing to contact them. Directory assistance did not have the name listed in Hemet, CA. I have written them but would much prefer to call since the response time is all that much faster. If you should know of this company, or have a telephone number, I would welcome your help. Thanks! jeff Jeffrey_Young@crd.lotus.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 Apr 1995 15:39:00 PDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Martin, David" Subject: Re: clearly he DOES need our help Here is a translation: QUESTION: How do you prevent swarms of bees from infesting an area in a house? PROBLEM: In the last two years, I have removed three swarms of bees from the area over a dormer on the third floor of a house and they are back again. The following is the way that I have tried to correct the problem. 1) I go into the dormer and remove the bees and honey with a vacuum. 2) Then I let the robber bees clean up the remaining honey. 3) At that time, I fill the area with insulation and close the dormer up. 4) Then, I seal every hole and crack that I can find, but somehow another swarm returns. Help!!!! If you have any suggestions, please reply. E-MAIL: DUNCAN_FLOYD@WPO.NCCU.EDU DAY PHONE #: (919) 560-5083 FAX #: (919) 560-3323 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 Apr 1995 16:00:04 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "" Subject: Re: clearly he DOES need our help At 3:39 PM 4/19/95 -0700, Martin, David wrote: >4) Then, I seal every hole and crack that I can find, but somehow another > swarm returns. Help!!!! If you have any suggestions, please reply. If life gives you a bowl of lemons, make lemonade! Build a hive body into the dormer to make removal easier, and sell the bees and products that collect. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 Apr 1995 20:10:39 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Dave Green, Eastern Pollinator Newsletter" Subject: Re: Addresses Requested Mike Allsopp asks: >can anyone give me an email address for Dr Eric Erickson in Tucson. ehejr@ccit.arizona.edu Pollinator@aol.com Dave Green ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 Apr 1995 19:28:03 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Gerard Worrell Subject: Any more progress on a control for chalkbrood? Browsing thru the August '91 issue of ABJ, there was an article by T.P.Liu (Alberta,Ca) regarding a possible control for chalkbrood. Benomyl (Dupont's trade name is Benlate) is supposed to have some effect in control. Any more on this? Jerry Worrell, Dunkirk,MD ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 Apr 1995 21:14:29 -0800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Mark Jensen Subject: Re: Any more progress on a control for chalkbrood? >Browsing thru the August '91 issue of ABJ, there was an article by >T.P.Liu (Alberta,Ca) regarding a possible control for chalkbrood. Benomyl >(Dupont's trade name is Benlate) is supposed to have some effect in >control. Any more on this? > >Jerry Worrell, Dunkirk,MD The March issue of the American Bee Journal has an article by the same author on the possible use of Neem (Margosan) for the control of Chalkbrood and Nosema. In the article, there is a source for Margosan and method of application (sugar syrup). I sure would like to find an effective control for chalkbrood. It makes pollen cleaning a real pain. Mark Jensen mjensen@crl.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 Apr 1995 22:29:00 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Crawfords Electronics <0006173164@MCIMAIL.COM> Subject: Re: Address for equipment supplier >I am interested in contacting the manufacturer of a product known as >PERMA-COMB. This is a pre- >drawn out, plastic comb product that I have been using for the past few years >in my honey supers. >Chief benefit is that the bees do not have to use resources to draw out wax >cells before they can >deposit the honey in the frame. Last year this product worked quite well for >me and extracted with minimal effort. > >The last I knew it was manufactured by J&M American Honey & Mfg, PO Box 182, >Hemet, CA 92342 >I would like to place an order but do not have a telephone listing to contact >them. Directory assistance >did not have the name listed in Hemet, CA. I have written them but would much >prefer to call since the >response time is all that much faster. > >If you should know of this company, or have a telephone number, I would welcome >your help. > >Thanks! jeff > Jeffrey_Young@crd.lotus.com The last time I ordered perma comb the address was: Dr. Herb Drapkin 22543 Ventura Blvd Dept 1, Suite 222A Woodland Hills Ca. 91364 818-992-0369 When I lost all 22 hives three years age, before I could clean things up, the wax moths did their best to destroy everythig! I brought nearly 600, 6 5/8" frames home without a worry. The next weekend I rented a high pressure water washer and while getting myself totally soaked, I cleaned every frame - PERFECTLY; no wax moth damage of any kind. If I really concentrated the spray on an area of old brood casings, after a few seconds the cocoons would pop out all over me - as if I had been "flocked" with them, from head to toe. During that winter I installed new colonies in nearlly all of them, without waisting a second on the rebuild or a cent on new frames. I'll never use wood and wax again. David Crawford Pinole, Ca 6173164@mcimail.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 20 Apr 1995 02:11:45 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Gordon D. Hayes" Subject: Re: McGregor on Chestnuts >Note: McGregor compiled much of the research data available up to 1976, and >we owe him a great debt. Now an update of the manual is badly needed. Amen, Here here, and any other way that there might be to show extreme agreement. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 20 Apr 1995 02:11:50 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Gordon D. Hayes" Subject: Re: The Frugal Beekeeper >Some years ago I read - I think in "Gleanings" - that a beekeeper in >Pennsylvania was using a couple of menthol cough drops per colony to >control tracheal mites. Has anyone on the net tried this? Any success? I read the article also. My mentor told me I would be wasting my time trying this. (I have to keep my hives alive or I go broke). There is only about 7 mg. of menthol per drop. The recommended dosage of menthol/hive is 50 mg. I believe. A much more effective manner is to place crisco/sugar patties in the hive year round. But don't add any Terramycin. Something about the vegetable oil discourages the tracheal mite from taking up house. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 20 Apr 1995 09:45:00 GMT+0100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Hugo Thone Subject: Re: BEE PROBLEM duncan_floyd@WPO.NCCU.EDU wrote : >NEED YOUR HELP. > >M[K>_D@_GS(TJWS`C7)=1B8X"``<```````````````@C`0```(8``` >!B`@`` >M`%4!````3@```.@"```))0$````&````-@,```LP`@```"@````\`P >``"#0! >M````%````&0#```(`@$````/````>`,```"82`!0`"``3`!A`',`90 >!R`$H` >M90!T`"``20!)`$D`1````````````````````````````````````` >`````` >M$@(`)`"A````H0```"MI3AX`````````````````````"#-\`'@``0 >(``(\` >M```#W0H0`(,!!``#``(`(1``W=T+"P`#```$"P#=455%4U1)3TXZ@( >!(;W>` >M9&^`>6]U@'!R979E;G2`-T:6YG ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 20 Apr 1995 07:49:39 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Logan Vanleigh Subject: Re: The Frugal Beekeeper > >A much more effective manner is to place crisco/sugar patties in the hive >year round. But don't add any Terramycin. Something about the vegetable oil >discourages the tracheal mite from taking up house. > Someone please post the recipe. Logan ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 20 Apr 1995 10:03:03 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Tim Bouwmeester Subject: BEEKEEPERS IN THE FORT FRANCES AREA I am moveing to Fort Frances in Northwestern Ontario in the middle of May. I am also a new beekeeper, my bees are arriving the beginning of May. I would appreciate if any beekeepers in the Fort Frances area would contact me so I could get some questions answered and maybe some advice during the summer if I run into problems. My internet address is; TBOUWMEESTER@FCOR.GLFC.FORESTRY.CA ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 20 Apr 1995 07:54:21 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Eric Abell Subject: Re: The Frugal Beekeeper In-Reply-To: <9504201138.AA39459@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca> I wouldn't count on Crisco patties by themselves. I understand that they deter the tracheal mite but although I have used these patties for years I still acquired a significant mite problem. I used menthol crystals on 1 yard last year and one hive in particular could always be counted upon to provide tracheal mites for examination. It died over winter by the way. I would be interested in hearing about the use of menthol crystals from those of you are successful with these. I tried them one year and the next spring my problem was worse. I then switched to Formic acid and every year since, my tracheal mite problem is less severe. Yesterday I unwrapped a yard of 36 colonies and found only 24 had survived. Of the survivors about 8 were very weak. I collected bees from several of the weak colonies and dissected them - 60% were infected. I also caught 3 queens and dissected them - none were infected. I must check my notes to see if my formic acid treatment was different in this year because other yards have had little evidence of trach. mites and relatively good rate of survival. I do not yet have Varroa in my area (as far as I know) and do not look forward to it. The tracheal mite problem has been bad enough. Eric Abell email: eabell@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca Gibbons, AB, T0A 1N0 Canada (403) 998 3143 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 20 Apr 1995 10:35:27 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Dave Green, Eastern Pollinator Newsletter" Subject: Beekeepers' Neighborhood Watch Dear Beekeepers: If you are in northern fruit growing areas, you are approaching a time of year when your bees are vulnerable to pesticide misuse, and you should be alert. You may be able to prevent damage before it occurs. If you have been hit by pesticide losses before, you already know that someone in your area is not complying with bee-protection directions. Most farmers are careful and consciencious, but there are always a few hardheads who don't care. Even good fruit growers, once pollination is accomplished, tend to put you out of mind until they need you again. What I refer to is growers who jump the gun on petal fall sprays. I know one beekeeper who lost a couple hundred hives and spent the whole summer salvaging the rest, when he was Penncapped during apple bloom. It was a clearcut violation, but he did nothing. He just went out of business. I have little respect for beekeepers who constantly whine about pesticide losses, but only run away with their tail between their legs and nurse their wounds. They don't find out what the law says (there is very good legal protec tion for the bee -as she forages- in the form of label directions), nor do they make the violators accountable. After the damage is done, you probably won't get much help from the pesticide enforcement people; in many areas they aren't trained and competent to do bee-kill investigations (another problem that needs to be addressed). You need to take a more preventive approach. Start with your fruit extension agent. Many old extension spray recommendations indicate petal fall sprays at 75% drop. This is a recommendation of misuse, as bees will still be visiting. The definition of petal fall, in terms of label compliance, is when bees stop visiting. Your agent may be unknowingly repeating the old directions. Next visit farmers. Work with those who will work with you. It is their responsibility to follow label directions. They cannot tell you to protect the bees; if they follow directions, the bees will be protected. Demanding that you move or cover bees in a device to try to make you responsible, while circumventing their own responsibility to obey the label. If they refuse, they are declaring their intent not to follow the directions, and *wilful* misuse is a criminal, not a civil complaint. I have a flow chart on complying with bee protection directions, that you can give to farmers. I'll send one to anyone who sends an SASE. If you have a hardhead that cusses you out and refuses to obey the label, get a camcorder and record any applications while the fruit is still in bloom. Be sure to show the bees working on the fruit blossoms at the time of application. Next it is needed to find out if it was an insecticide being applied, and you probably won't get anywhere with the hardhead. Report it to your pesticide enforcement officer as a *suspected* violation. If it is only a fungicide, it is not a violation, nor a problem for you. Your enforcement officer can establish that, as he has labs available to see if the truth is being told. If you have a bee kill, you have additional evidence. A bee kill alone will probably lead the investigator to drop the case, saying there is not enough evidence (competence?). But with a camcorder there will be solid evidence of violation. Better yet, if it is known that there is a neighborhood watch on, there is much less likelihood of criminal behavior. Growers will need the bees again next year. Pollinator@aol.com Dave Green Eastern Pollinator Newsletter PO Box 1215, Hemingway, SC 29554 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 20 Apr 1995 08:39:00 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Paul van Westendorp 576-5600 Fax: 576-5652" Subject: Re: Any more progress on a control for chalkbrood? You may wish to contact Dr. Steve Liu directly: lius@abrsbl.agr.ca Paul van Westendorp pvanwesten@galaxy.gov.bc.ca British Columbia ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 20 Apr 1995 11:14:59 U Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Larry Farris Subject: Searching for Cordovan Race Subject: Time:10:58 AM OFFICE MEMO Searching for Cordovan Race Date:4/20/95 I have built a permanent observation hive and desire to place a very bright yellow bee in it. The race of bees I'm looking for is called "Yellow Cordovan" - Does anyone know where I can get a Yellow Cordovan queen? I understand that Susan (Sue) Cobey is the caretaker for this race in the U.S. (per Bee Culture magazine). She works at Ohio State University - Does anyone know if she is on the net or what her snail mail address is? Susan, if you're there -- Can I get a couple of Yellow Cordovan queens from you? Larry Farris (North Texas area); email: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 20 Apr 1995 13:12:08 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Kelley Rosenlund 904-392-5551 Subject: Feeders Why are hives each fed with an individual feeder as opposed to having say a 5 gallon bucket of feed for every few hives hanging nearby. You could even have some hardware cloth of the proper size to keep bumble bees and birds from drinking it. It seems it would be a lot more efficient in both time & money to refill 1 5gallon bucket rather than 5 1 gallon buckets. Kelley rosenlk@freenet.ufl.edu ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 20 Apr 1995 17:46:06 GMT Reply-To: ibra@matheson.demon.co.uk Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: ibra Subject: Re: Searching for Cordovan Race In your message dated Thursday 20, April 1995 you wrote : > OFFICE MEMO Searching for Cordovan Race > I understand that Susan (Sue) Cobey is the caretaker for this race in > the U.S. (per Bee Culture magazine). She works at Ohio State University > - Does anyone know if she is on the net or what her snail mail address > is? Try scobey@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu -- ************************************************************************** * From Andrew Matheson, Director, International Bee Research Association * * * * E.mail (home): ibra@matheson.demon.co.uk * * (office): ibra@cardiff.ac.uk * * * * IBRA, 18 North Road, Cardiff CF1 3DY, UK * * Fax (+44) 1222-665522 Telephone (+44) 1222-372409 * ************************************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 20 Apr 1995 16:53:34 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: vellani UNSUBSCRIBE-NURI VELLANI ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 20 Apr 1995 16:12:12 +0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Rick Fell Subject: Re: Beekeepers' Neighborhood Watch - Addendum Comments: To: Discussion of Bee Biology I would like to add an addendum to Dave Green's note regarding pesticide applications to fruit trees in bloom lest anyone misinterpret the comments and create problems for him / herself. First the term pesticide is broadly defined and includes everything from rodenticides, herbicides, and fungicides to insecticides. Second some pesticide applications can be made legally during bloom. These include the application of fungicides for disease control as Dave indicated, but also streptomycin for the control of fireblight. Growers may also apply some growth regulators or foliar nutrients. These materials do not cause bee kills. Therefore, simply observing a grower making a spray application during bloom does not mean he or she is doing anything wrong or illegal. Even a bee insecticide kill and the observation of a bloom application by a fruit grower does not mean the two are connected, since the insecticide could come from another source (we've had such a case in Virginia). Most growers and extension agents are well informed as to the importance of bees for pollination and know the dangers of applying insecticides to any plants in bloom, including ground cover plants. Occasional misuse does occur, but it is the exception rather than the rule. Spray recommendation bulletins are updated yearly in most states, so no agent or grower should be following old information. It is good to be concerned, but also be sure of the situation before accusing someone, or creating ill feelings because of a false accusation. If you are concerned about possible problems, talk to the grower. Most of those with whom I've worked in the past 15-20 years are interested in doing what they can to protect bees and many are good supporters of the bee industry. Rick Fell > Richard Fell e-mail: rfell@vt.edu Department of Entomology, Virginia Tech Blacksburg, VA 24061 703-231-7207 Fax 703-231-9131 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 20 Apr 1995 21:33:37 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Brian Tassey Subject: Grease Patties Hello! Someone was asking about a grease patty recipe earlier. I deleted your letter before saving your name, sorry. I use liquid vegetable shortening (easier, makes a creamier patty that won't harden up on a weak colony in cold weather) at a rate of 2lbs sugar/1lb oil (or crisco). If you want to add the TM, just adjust the rate of TM to the size of patty by weight you want to use and mix it with the sugar prior to blending with the oil. Here in CA, for myself a 1/2 lb patty will last about 6 weeks in the spring on a good colony. I scoop with a standard ice cream scoop and put it in a waxed french fry bag. The bag makes it possible to make up large quantities and put them in quickly while I'm checking frame counts in the winter for almond pollination. It no fun dragging around a bucket of goo all day. A scoop is around a 1/4 lb (better weigh yours if using TM). I use anywhere from a 1/4 to 1 lb patty depending on time of year and honey flow periods. Hope that helps, also this is one of the 500 ways to do this procedure and I'm sure they all work fine. I also keep a patty of some type in the hive constantly. Brian Tassey Kaykin@aol.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 20 Apr 1995 22:07:46 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Dave Green, Eastern Pollinator Newsletter" Subject: Re: Beekeepers' Neighborhood ... rfell@VT.EDU (Rick Fell) >....also be sure of the situation before accusing someone, or creating ill feelings because of a false accusation. If you are concerned about possible problems, talk to the grower. Most of those with whom I've worked in the past 15-20 years are interested in doing what they can to protect bees and many are good supporters of the bee industry. Thanks Rick for your thoughts; perhaps I didn't make it clear enough that this is a last resort kind of thing for the hardheads who will not comply any other way. If a farmer is careful and consciencious, support him in every possible way. But it is a more common problem than you may realize, because many beekeepers will not report it. They have become cynical about the enforcement authorities, or they fear vandalism, loss of pollination business, loss of bee locations, etc. I have *eaten* a lot of damage myself over the years, to keep good relationships with growers, but many years have enough hits to take the profit out of the business and keep me poor. I have determined that I will have to hold some violators accountable, or the problem will never stop. The ones who cuss and threaten you are the ones who thereby declare their intent to violate. Yes, these are only a minority, but oh, how costly they can be! >..... some pesticide applications can be made legally during bloom. These include the application of fungicides for disease control as Dave indicated, but also streptomycin for the control of fireblight. Yes I should have been more clear here too. A few years back I heard talk of experiments using honeybees to vector streptomyacin to the bloom. Did anything come of this? Anyone? Clemson is experimenting with honeybees carrying fungicide to strawberry bloom. Pollinator@aol.com Dave Green PO Box 1215, Hemingway, SC 29554 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 20 Apr 1995 18:42:40 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Joan Tuckey Organization: Sound Doctrine BBS (303) 680-7209 - Aurora, CO, USA Subject: killer bees This message appeared on a FidoNet echo called HOME-N-GRDN. My husband = tells there are inaccuracies in what Bill McLaughlin says. I would like your = comments. =3D=3D=3D Cut =3D=3D=3D =C4 HOME-N-GRDN (1:342/1015) =C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4= =C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4= =C4 HOME-N-GRDN =C4 Msg : 160 of 200=20 From : Bill Mclaughlin 1:104/514 09 Apr 95 = 21:03:14 To : Jesse Tharin 19 Apr 95 = 07:33:44 Subj : Killer Bees=20 =C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4= =C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4= =C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4= =C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4 =C4 Well! There seems to have been some recent activity on this echo con= cerning Honeybees and the infamous =D2killer bees=D3. I have been a gardener and beekeeper for some 15 years now and wou= ld like to dispel some myths that might be floating around concerning these ins= ects, the common honey bee, that are so beneficial to all of our gardens prod= uction. Some little known facts of the honey bee; They are not native to the Americas. They were brought over to th= e new world by the colonists. To make 1 pound of honey it is estimated that a bee would have to = fly around the world at the equator 1 and 1/2 times in bee miles. Bees never =D2hibernate=D3 during the winter. They cluster up for= warmth but are fully awake during the winter. The queen mates only once during her entire life. This being done= in mid air. Sometimes with as many as 10 males. Scientists have been able to duplicate the taste of honey but have= not been able to duplicate honey itself. It takes approximately 5 pounds of honey to make 1 pound of bees wa= x. Now for the =D2killer bee.=D3 The =D2killer bee=D3 as it is known, is believed to have originate= d in Europe as a Germanic bee (which by the way is one of the bees originally broug= ht over by the colonists). It was shipped to Africa from Europe in hopes of st= arting up honey production in that part of the world. Then in 1956 a team of scientists decided to see how they would work in the South American cou= ntry of Brazil where they were (and are) used widely and successfully for comme= rcial honey production. The killer bees where first spotted north of the Rio= Grande, Texas border in October of 1990. And have been slowly moving north sin= ce then.=20 The name =D2killer bee=D3 was first dubbed by the Brazilian mil= itary calling the bees, in Portuguese, the language of Brazil, abelhas assass= inas (killer bees). The first known mention of the words =D2killer bees=D3 = in the US was in Time magazine in the September 24th, 1965, issue that picked up one = of these military press releases. Much the same story was repeated in a second = article in the same magazine in the April 12, 1968, issue. Those stories promp= ted others to write in this same vein, and the term and the Brazilian assoc= iation with =D2killer bees=D3 was firmly established. =D2Killer bees=D3 are not more venomous then any other honey bee t= hey are just more aggressive. About 40 people die each year in the US from the stin= gs of venomous insects. Of these deaths, ordinary European honeybees are res= ponsible for about half. Modern beekeepers of today harvest many different products from th= eir hives. From the well known honey and wax to pollen and royal jelly (us= ed in some cosmetics for the skin or eaten for health). Another product of the honey bee is the venom for certain forms of arthritics. To harvest this crop, The bee keeper puts a thin nylon mem= brane across the bees=C9board and delivers a mild electric shock to the bees = as they land. They in turn react by stinging through the membrane and depositi= ng the liquid venom onto a sterile glass plate. The bee is able to retract it= s stinger because the barbs in the stinger don=D5t get caught on anything= and the honey bee continues to live. The bee keeper then comes and collects the= glass and turns it over to the pharmaceutical companies who in turn provides = the product to medical physicians. In a message from Jesse Tharin to Joan Tuckey JT>And we got 'em. The killers are so difficult to tell apart from the JT>native aboriginal bees that the fire department never messes around JT>with identification. They just hit any urban swarm with foam and kil= l JT>them. The fire departments choice is the correct way to handle swarms or= any other stinging insect emergency. In an article published in Gleanings = in Bee Culture, the July 1992 issue, it addresses this problem. If there are = any fireman out there that would like more information on this subject ther= e is a video training tape as well. Just e-mail me. Finally, if any one is interested in starting up this hobby I can = put you in touch with a several catalogs and a great magazine to start with. One Bee Joke. Q: Why do Honeybees sting? A: If someone took your honey and nectar, you=D5d bee mad too! (If you don=D5t get it, say it aloud) BillMc --- FLAME v1.1 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 20 Apr 1995 13:20:05 GMT Reply-To: Gordon@apis.demon.co.uk Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Gordon L. Scott" Subject: Re: Senator Coats jab at us Paul van Westendorp writes; > David, > > Don't apologize to the non-American readers! I agree although I understand why he did. Senator Coats statement reflects an attitude that is far too common. If we hear world-wide about these views then at least we can form a collective front. UK funding for research in beekeeping is low and falling, beekeepers are now expected to make *donations* (addmitedly small) to keep certain research areas running. But then as so many non-beekeepers know, bees are just useless pests and beekeepers don't do any work -- our bees do it all for us and we just take the honey. :-| Regards, -- Gordon Scott Gordon@apis.demon.co.uk Compuserve 100332,3310 Gordon@multitone.co.uk Basingstoke Beekeeper Beekeeper@apis.demon.co.uk ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 Apr 1995 09:20:23 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Glenn McLeod Subject: African bees I have kept a small number of colonies (up to 30) for the last 15 years and am going to Zambia for 2 years next October. I would like to try my hand at keeping Afrian bees and need some information. I have heard that there is "top bar hive" that has been used in Kenya. Does any one have a reference to construction details? Any information or advice on keeping bees in Africa would be much appreciated. TIA Glenn Glenn McLeod Tel. 1(519)268-3003 776 Cromarty Drive Fax. 1(519)268-2613 Dorchester, ON N0L 1G0 e-mail dmcleod@julian.uwo.ca ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 Apr 1995 07:12:25 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Casey Burns Subject: Starting Bees in Full Boxes In-Reply-To: <199504210118.SAA05703@kendaco.telebyte.com> I lost all my bees last fall to Varroa - consequently, I have boxes full of honey and pollen to start my bees in (tomorrow, actually!). My question is: should I start them in only 1 brood chamber, or should I start them in 2 - essentially as they were left for overwintering? Thanks! Casey Burns ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 Apr 1995 09:32:50 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Joel Subject: .... I am a new subscriber to Bee-l, and find it very interesting and informative, and even facinating at times! This is also my first post to the 'whole' list, so I hope I don't mess up. I have some comments, thoughts, and a few questions that I'd like to throw out. First, my beekeeping background. I've had two hives for two summers. I started with used equipment and 2 packages. I lost both hives the first winter. Last summer and fall, I was more diligent about feeding the medicines recommended at the correct times, and my bees survived last winter (I'm sure the mild winter here in Minnesota helped). We also harvested our first honey last fall - its amazing how much better your own honey tastes!! Some thoughts after reading the correspondense on Bee-l for the past couple of months. I would highly encourage knowledgeable people to direct their answers to the whole Bee-l list, since that information is invaluable to beginners like myself. I'm sure that Kelly from Florida has received a ton of good, beginner info that has been directed just to her that would help lots of other beginners. A recent example that comes to mind is the person that explained why Apistan shouldn't be left in the hive any longer than recommended, to avoid the mites building a resistance to it. I'm sure that was news to lots of people, especially the non-biologist types on the list. I would highly recommend Bee-l in digest form to anyone - it sure cuts down the clutter in my mailbox. Now for some questions: 1) I've started feeding my bees some 1:1 sugar water and terramyacin. I'm feeding using the overturned 1 gallon feeders and another super. When I go back to refill a couple weeks later, I'm finding mold in the buckets. How can I avoid that? Will it harm the bees? 2) I'm concerned that the 1 gallon feeders over the hole in the top cover will cause a ventilation problem in the hive, because you're effectively shutting off the top ventilation. Am I overly concerned? What are other peoples favorate methods of feeding? 3) Bottom boards - which way should they be turned? You have a bigger space one way versus the other way. 4) Harvesting honey - what is a good text or source for beginners on extracting? Seems like last year, we had the uncapping knife too hot, we didn't run it thru a fine enough screen etc. The honey that we ended up with was very edible for us, but not what I would want to market. 5) Does anyone have plans for a solar honey extractor? 6) Honey sales - the minute people found out that I had bee hives, they were lining up for 'free' honey, especially my relatives. To make it worse, they then start giving me honey jars, or scrounging up beekeeping equipment at sales. How do you get past that free stage and onto the marketing of honey? I've rattled on long enough - keep up the good work!! *****************Have a Great Day!!!***************** Joel Piepenburg Information Services 507-284-8818 Internet=jpiepenburg@mayo.edu Officevision=AP00149 ***************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 Apr 1995 09:21:27 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jerry J Bromenshenk Subject: Re: Feeders In-Reply-To: from "Kelley Rosenlund 904-392-5551" at Apr 20, 95 01:12:08 pm Hi: I haven't seen a reply to this question. You do not want to use a common feeder because it encourages robbing, not only by bees in the yard, but by any bees within a 1 to 3 mile radius. If any of the robbers are diseased, or infected with mites - every bee sharing the feeder is at risk, as is their colony. So - this is a bad idea. In addition, it will draw in other insects and animals, even if you do try to screen them out. Jerry Bromenshenk Univ. MT jjbmail@selway.umt.edu ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 Apr 1995 09:49:30 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jerry J Bromenshenk Subject: Looking for Electronics Whiz Hi: We are wiring 15 hives to continuously monitor anything and everything that we can - brood nest temperature, relative humidity, bee flight activity, air flow direction and speed, etc. These are small nucleus hives, with 1-3 pounds of bees, and 10-30 pounds total weight (depending on time of year, experiments being conducted, etc.). All of the hives are mounted on a roof and all of the measurements are being conducted using a 486 IBM-compatible PC with an A-bus card data system. Our biggest technical problem is in finding an accurate, yet inexpensive, sensor to monitor hive weight changes. We have tried a variety of pressure transducers, pizeos, etc. They tend to either be too insensitive to pick up small changes such as bees coming and going, or too expensive (we can't afford to put a research grade electronic balance under each hive). We would like to keep the cost below $200 per hive. If anyone has any insights or can point us to components - or even better - circuit diagrams, please respond directly to us. Thanks Jerry J. Bromenshenk The University of Montana Missoula, MT 59812 Tel: 406-243-5648 Fax: 406-243-4184 E-Mail: jjbmail@selway.umt.edu ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 Apr 1995 13:46:41 GMT Reply-To: Gordon@apis.demon.co.uk Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Gordon L. Scott" Subject: Re: Feeders Kelley wrote: > Why are hives each fed with an individual feeder as opposed to having say > a 5 gallon bucket of feed for every few hives hanging nearby. You could > even have some hardware cloth of the proper size to keep bumble bees and > birds from drinking it. It seems it would be a lot more efficient in both > time & money to refill 1 5gallon bucket rather than 5 1 gallon buckets. Tempting isn't it. Of course you _will_ feed *far* more than just your own bees and the apiary will get _very_ exciting for a while with thousands of bees everywhere! You would also feed the strongest colonies at the expense of the weaker ones, which probably most need the feed. I have been told that it also increases the risks of robbing but personally I'm less convinced about that. I always feed each colony directly. Regards, -- Gordon Scott Gordon@apis.demon.co.uk Compuserve 100332,3310 Gordon@multitone.co.uk Basingstoke Beekeeper Beekeeper@apis.demon.co.uk ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 Apr 1995 10:15:57 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jerry J Bromenshenk Subject: Research Assistant Position Hi: We anticipate receiving funding on May 1, 1995 for a project that will provide 30 months of Graduate Research support (@$17,000 per year to start, increasing to $19,000) plus travel, supplies, etc. If this project comes through (which is likely), we need a GRA who is well versed in computer programming, modeling, and electronics. This person would work with a research group studying the effects of environmental stressors on honey bees (i.e., chemical pollutants, weather, disease, mites, in environmental problems, population dynamics, ecotoxicology, chemistry, and statistics). This project took 3 years of review, negotiation, etc., and then came through in a hurry. The GRA has to be well versed in C language, PC computers, some knowledge of modeling, and able to write code to interface electronic sensors with PCs. Knowledge of biology and bees helpful, but not required. Ideally, we would like to find a graduate student interested in bees whose second area of interest is computer applications. Realistically, we may have to train a Computer Science student in the ways of bees. The work is based in Missoula, MT for 1995. Field work in 1996 will be conducted in Maryland. This is a very large, multi-disciplinary project. We already have a laboratory/field manager for the apiculture aspects, a Ph.D. candidate in Environmental Chemistry, several undergraduate research assistants, and the aforementioned faculty team. Our preference is to recruit a student who will qualify for our Graduate Programs. However, we do not have a Graduate Program in Apiculture or Entomology. Computer Science has been sending us folders of qualified applicants with strong computer backgrounds. We would consider working with a Graduate Student from another institution, if they had the appropriate background in biology and computer science. Summers would have to be spent in Montana and Maryland, although some of the course-work could be taken elsewhere. This is an urgent request. We expect to receive confirmation of the award within the week. We do have some applicants already, and we need to start before the end of May. We may also have a couple of months of Grad. Support available for this summer. We originally asked for an April 1 start. Our first project and budget period will run from May 1 through Sept. 30, 1995. If we can't fill the Grad. Position until late May, we will have "saved" 1-2 months of salary, but we still have the same work needs, so may hire two students for this coming summer. Please contact us by e-mail or telephone - snail mail will be too late. Jerry J. Bromenshenk Project Director The University of Montana Missoula, MT 59812-1002 Tel: 406-243-5648 Fax: 406-243-4184 E-Mail: jjbmail@selway.umt.edu P.S. We are accepting also Work-Study Applicants and volunteers. We currently are not hiring any more "Hourly" technicians, since we have many students who are currently working for us and who comprise an existing pool of employees and candidates for non-graduate positions. So, please do not flood us with applications for positions other than that described. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 Apr 1995 12:20:59 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "" Subject: Re: Feeders Yes, communal feeding stimulates robbing, especially during a dearth. Another important reason for not using communal feeders is that the strongest colonies will get most of it, and the weaker ones (which could benefit most from the feed) will get a much smaller proportion. By putting the feed directly in the hive under a spare super, you make sure everyone gets what they need, not necessarily what they want (to paraphrase the Rolling Stones). Colonies vary a lot withrespect to how fast they consume their stores. It is important, and good management, to check them out before feeding. Some might need several gallons, others virtually none. Joel Piepenburg asked about the black mold. I too see it, and I am curious. So far I have seen no ill effects, but I do make sure that I clean up the jars well between feeding, and use plenty of hot water. Also, I use the largest entrance on the bottom board year round in Maryland. I have been taught to keep an upper entrance also at all times. This is a notch in the rim of the inner cover, about 3/8 by 2.5 ", and the inner cover is put on with the notch down - going directly into the brood chamber. The gap between the hive and telescoping cover provides a weather-proof entrance. Make sure the outer cover is always pushed forward. This provides ventilation when feeding, and keeps the hive dryer in winter. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 Apr 1995 13:17:03 GMT Reply-To: Gordon@apis.demon.co.uk Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Gordon L. Scott" Subject: Re: Beekeepers' Neighborhood Watch Dave Green wrote: > Dear Beekeepers: > > If you are in northern fruit growing areas, you are approaching a > time of year when your bees are vulnerable to pesticide misuse, > and you should be alert. You may be able to prevent damage before > it occurs. If you have been hit by pesticide losses before, you > already know that someone in your area is not complying with > bee-protection directions. In the UK, where farms and beekeeping outfits are mostly pretty small, many local Associations operate a "Spray Liaison Scheme" whereby farmers & spray contractors have a list of 'phone numbers to call to inform us of spraying. We can then inform all beekeepers in the vicinity whose bees we feel may be affected. Whilst this in itself doesn't really solve any problems, it does help to build the relationship between beekeepers and farmers, and does help to remind the farmers of their part of the bargain. Of course there are still a few who simply *won't* play ball :-( These days the calls we get are almost always 'benign' and we rarely need take any action. We probably have the opportunity to move the bees away but there is rarely (in my experience anyway) a need. So we do all this liaising but it has no real significance? Nope -- incidences of poisoning have fallen dramatically because the farmers think twice. We do have the law to back us up but now rarely seem to need it. We do have a list of alternative pesticides that we can suggest if spraying really *must* be done at the 'wrong' time. For us at least, putting in the effort seems to work, but the farmers do have to know that if *they* scew up it *will* cost *them*. I has a few other potential benefits too. It increases the chances of us noticing unexpected side-effects like the smell of a 'harmless' pesticide causing rejection of foragers at the hive entrance or causes bad tempered bees. It's making the farmers more aware generally that *all* pesticides kill or affect things other than the primary target. It's making farmers ask themselves whether they really need to spray at all and sometimes the answer is 'no'. Sometimes we even save the farmers money -- farmers like that ;-) We still have a way to go, but we *are* going. Regards, -- Gordon Scott Gordon@apis.demon.co.uk Compuserve 100332,3310 Gordon@multitone.co.uk Basingstoke Beekeeper Beekeeper@apis.demon.co.uk ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 Apr 1995 17:31:57 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: JR Subject: Bee Bee C I'm a researcher for the BBC1 rural and agricultural affairs programme 'CountryFile'. Some time ago, I had a letter from an elderly apiarist in Oxfordshire bemoaning the influx of imported honey and that the "government were doing nothing to help British beekeepers" etc. etc. Is this true? What is the state of UK beekeeping today? Feel free to email me anything you think John Craven's programme should take an interest in. Jonathan.Reid@BBC.co.uk ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 Apr 1995 11:57:00 CST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "(Alistair Carr RS/RC (608) 221-6363)" Subject: Carniolans or Italians ? Fellow Bee-Heads, I have to make a decision, and wondered if anyone out there can help me with any advice or opinions. I have been keeping bees for about a year, fulfilling an ambition I have had since I was 10 or 11. Finally I stopped playing the vagrant student, settled down and bought a hive. It has proven to be every bit as fascinating and satisfying as I hoped - even a duel with Varroa to spice it up ! Anyway...this spring I would like to split my one hive, and start a second, partly to forestall swarming, partly to satisfy an urge to multiply ;). I live in south-central Wisconsin, in the enlightened city of Madison, where I am an urban guerilla beekeeper operating illegally (no, I don't wear camouflage overalls and keep my hive in a bunker)..more on that situation another time. My present colony is Dadant's Midnite hybrid, and I want the second colony also to be gentle. My choice of locally bred queens is between an Italian strain, which I am led to believe is quite docile, and a Carniolan strain. My understanding is that perhaps the Carniolan would be more suited to northern climes, but may produce less honey (not a big deal to me), and be prone to swarming. My concern with the Italians is that they could be more irritable, and perhaps winter less well here. Any advice would be gratefully recieved. Gotta fly now, I hear sirens.... Alistair ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 Apr 1995 09:55:00 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Paul van Westendorp 576-5600 Fax: 576-5652" Subject: Re: African bees Glenn, I was involved in a beekeeping project in Uganda for several years in the 1980's which involved the construction and distribution of KTB-hives (in addition to training of beekeepers, etc.). If you wish, contact me directly. You may also get valuable information from the University of Guelph. They were actually much involved in the original development of the KTB hive in East Africa. regards, Paul van Westendorp pvanwesten@galaxy.gov.bc.ca PRovincial Apiarist British Columbia ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 Apr 1995 11:40:54 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jerry J Bromenshenk Subject: Feeders Hi again: The point about strong hives getting most of the syrup is correct. However, my system does not track individual e-mail addresses, so I do not know the identity of the respondent. This has been often requested, but here goes again, please use a signature line with your name and e-mail address so people can respond directly and not have to go to the entire list. Also, Joel says he is using a 1:1 sugar solution, that is pretty weak and could do as much harm as good. Generally a 2:1 sucrose to water ratio is recommended. Even that concentration may stress the colonies because the bees have to evaporate off excess water and convert the sucrose to glucose and fructose. Jerry Bromenshenk The University of Montana Missoula, MT 59812-1002 jjbmail@selway.umt.edu ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 Apr 1995 07:51:21 -1000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Thomas W. Culliney" Subject: Re: killer bees In-Reply-To: <9504210300.AA24940@hinc.hawaii.gov> There is one glaring inaccuracy in the FidoNet post. The "killer bees" now spreading through the western hemisphere are descended from colonies of Apis mellifera scutellata, a race of honey bee native to southern Africa, which were brought to Brazil for experimental purposes in 1956. The idea was to breed a bee better adapted to the tropical conditions in Brazil than were the European races already present. Through tragic accident, a number of the scutellata colonies absconded. Descendants of these (the killer bees) are hybrids, the result of matings between the Africans and local European populations. While German bees (A.m. mellifera) may be as ill-tempered as African bees, they are not the ancestors of the infamous killer bees. =============================================================== Thomas W. Culliney * Phone: (808) 973-9529 Hawaii Dept. of Agriculture * Facsimile: (808) 973-9533 Division of Plant Industry * E-mail: tcullin@hinc.hawaii.gov 1428 South King Street * Honolulu, Hawaii 96814 * U.S.A. * =============================================================== "...but in the minds of most men, the learned as well as the vulgar, the idea of the trifling nature of his pursuit is so strongly associated with that of the diminutive size of its objects, that an _Entomologist_ is synonymous with every thing futile and childish."--Kirby & Spence (1816) =============================================================== ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 Apr 1995 14:14:48 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "" Subject: Re: Feeders At 11:40 AM 4/21/95 -0600, Jerry J Bromenshenk wrote: >Also, Joel says he is using a 1:1 sugar solution, that is pretty weak and >could do as much harm as good. Generally a 2:1 sucrose to water ratio is >recommended. Even that concentration may stress the colonies because >the bees have to evaporate off excess water and convert the sucrose to >glucose and fructose. I disagree. A 1:1 solution is what one should be using in late spring. A 2:1 sol'n is appropriate fall-winter. Both are much easier for the bees to take down than stronger solutions (like honey). A 1:1 solution encourages build-up of colonies in the spring. At that time colonies also have a high demand for additional water as well. Bees will commonly forage for water while being fed in order to dilute stores and keep larvae moist. Conversion of sucrose to glucose and fructose is relatively cheap for the bees and a little invertase goes a long way. Provided there is proper ventilation (but there should be anyway, to handle metabolic water), I do not see how 1:1 could do any harm whatsoever, and certainly not as much harm as good! Several experts recommend feeding 1:2 (with very small holes in the feeder) in the spring to simulate nectar flow for build up, but I have no experience with doing so. I would like to hear more about the basis of how feeding stresses colonies, and the degree of stress vs benefits. Dr. Wayne E. Esaias wayne@petrel.gsfc.nasa.gov Goddard Space Flight Center Bldg 22, room 143 (for FedEx) Code 971 (301) 286-5465 (voice) Greenbelt, MD 20771 (301) 286-0240 (fax) ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 Apr 1995 13:34:14 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: John D Schneider Subject: Re: Senator Coats jab at us Greetings, Gordon Scott wrote: > Paul van Westendorp writes; > > David, > > > > Don't apologize to the non-American readers! > > I agree although I understand why he did. > > Senator Coats statement reflects an attitude that is far too > common. If we hear world-wide about these views then at least we > can form a collective front. UK funding for research in > beekeeping is low and falling, beekeepers are now expected to make > *donations* (addmitedly small) to keep certain research areas > running. But then as so many non-beekeepers know, bees are just > useless pests and beekeepers don't do any work -- our bees do it > all for us and we just take the honey. :-| > > Regards, > -- > Gordon Scott Gordon@apis.demon.co.uk Compuserve 100332,3310 > Gordon@multitone.co.uk > Basingstoke Beekeeper Beekeeper@apis.demon.co.uk > This is my first contribution to BEE-L, though I have been reading it for months. I suppose I am going to get flamed to a cinder for what I am about to write, but after reading several of the posts on this topic I feel it is time for a dissenting voice. First of all, I love beekeeping, and have the highest regard for it, both as a profession and as a hobby. But I sense a great deal of tunnel- vision in the posts of the many distinguished folks we have heard from. Sure, beekeeping has it's problems, from AHB to mites to pesticides to regulation, and research will need to be done if these problems are going to be solved. But let me ask the fundamental question none of you have asked, "What business does the government have in funding research for a private industry"? If the beekeeeping industry needs government money for research to solve it's problems, then so does every industry. Every industry has it's needs. Should the government fund research on apple trees, corn, soybean, lettuce, or every other crop anyone grows for a living? Each has it's own specific problems it is trying to solve. What about the non-agriculture businesses. The glass industry, the paint industry, the steel industry, the fishing industry, the automobile industry, the list is in the thousands. Should the government fund research for every industry in the country? If so, how could we afford it? And if not, why does beekeeping rate and the others don't? Surely if you can remove your blinders for a second you can see that the beekeeping industry is only a small part of a very large economy. Every industry in the nation spends part of it's profits toward research to solve it's problems and improve it's product. Beekeeping is not unique in this. Someone said, (paraphrasing) "The beekeeping research budget is only $5 million, and what is that compared to the size of the whole government budget?" But have you ever read the budget in detail? There are a few big-ticket items like service on the debt and Social Security, but a lot of the budget is taken up by a huge stack of $5 million (or amounts in that order of magnitude) grants to do a bunch of things that are only there because some small industry lobbyed a congressman who snuck them in, in the hopes of buying a few votes. Read the Constitution. The government is not in the bee research business, nor should it be. One of the reasons 30% of our federal taxes goes to pay interest on the national debt is because every congressman fights to preserve a bunch of projects year after year. Did you know $86 million of our taxes last year (I think that amount is correct) went to maintain a helium reserve set up back during WWII when dirigibles had some military value? That money is still spent, year after year, because the congressman in the state where the money gets spent fights for it. He is afraid of his reelection possibilities if he doesn't. Now I am NOT saying the research isn't important. It just isn't a government function. I happen to agree with the real point Senator Coats was trying to make, and that is that the government should stop doing research, and let the individual industries that care perform the research themselves. That would have several advantages: 1) You (as part of a trade organization that sponsored the research) would at least have a vote about how the money was spent. 2) You could more directly participate in the research yourself, too, and have more ready access to the researchers and the results. 3) Your local trade organization could opt to spend money on a project of local interest, that might be funded by a national program. Again, it's your money, so you can do what you want. 4) No government lobbyists to pay. 5) None of the money would be wasted on government bureaucracy selecting and monitoring the projects and refereeing the fights over who gets how much. 6) Our tax money would be saved, so either our taxes would go down (not likely) or the debt would go down (more likely). Either way is a good thing. I am not picking on beekeeping. Really. I would NOT want to see government research cut for beekeeping while leaving everything else the same. What I am talking about is the role of government as a whole. If all these government functions were just eliminated, and consequently picked up by the various groups that cared about them, the research would be much more effective. To many of you this discussion is of a political nature and way outside the central issues of beekeeping. Sorry. I don't mean to waste anyone's time. Just one man's opinion. John ******************************************************************************* * John D. Schneider Internet: jdschn@dilbert.monsanto.com * * Monsanto Company Telephone: (314)537-6808 * *-----------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "No sciences are better tested than the religion of the Bible." * * - Sir Isaac Newton * *-----------------------------------------------------------------------------* * Disclaimer: If you think I am a spokesperson for the Monsanto Company, its * * subsidiaries, management, or lackeys, you are sadly mistaken. * ******************************************************************************* ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 Apr 1995 14:52:26 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Carl Mueller Subject: Seen it All Well I have seen it all now. I had started a split and gave it a new Buckfast queen. The split had released the queen 2 days ago and looked fine. Today I checked on it and was shocked that the split had been killed by large black and red carpenter ants or as we call them bull ants. I went through the frames removing dead bees and ants, cursing to myself about the loss of the queen. As I finished I saw some movement on the ground. Upon investigation I discovered that it was the queen that I had been mourning. I picked her up and placed her in a queen cage that was in my pocket and placed a cork in the candy end. I took the queen home after finishing with cleaning up the frames and giving the hive body to another hive as a super. I made up new candy for the queen cage and reinstalled the queen in it. I then went to one of my strong hives and removed the upper brood chamber after checking for the queen. I then started another split with the battle hardened queen. I guess that she had a real survival instinct. It will be exciting to see what her off spring turn out like. I will keep you posted on the results when she released from her cage. Yes, I found the nest of ants and they are now visiting their ancestors. ----------------------------------------------------------------- Carl Mueller West Palm Beach, Florida USA Email: cmueller@emi.net I think therefore, I am politically incorrect!! ----------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 Apr 1995 13:57:00 CST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Matt Ter Molen Subject: Re: African bees I would suggest that you contact IBRA regarding Kenya Top Bar Hives (KTBH's). They will more than likely have plans and examples of top bar hives. These hives are great for low-tech development projects involving beekeeping. As a matter of fact, we used these in Honduras for use with Africanized Bees. Their simplicity of design and low-cost make them very attractive. However, they will in no way allow you the type of "freedom of management" that you would have in using Langstroth equipment. If you don't have any luck, please e-mail me at dwbmjtm@uchimvs1.uchicago.edu and I will dig up some designs for you. Matt Ter Molen. Evanston, Illinois. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 Apr 1995 15:47:27 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Carl Mueller Subject: Re: Starting Bees in Full Boxes >Casey Burns wrote: >I lost all my bees last fall to Varroa - consequently, I have boxes full >of honey and pollen to start my bees in (tomorrow, actually!). > >My question is: should I start them in only 1 brood chamber, or should I >start them in 2 - essentially as they were left for overwintering? >Thanks! >Casey Burns > IMHO and assumming that you are going to be installig packages, I would not start in 2 boxes. The age ratio of the package will trigger a supersedure response. Don't worry, just monitor weekly and remove any queen cells that are started. As the queen increases her laying productivity this will stop. If you use two boxes the bees will have an even stronger supersedure response. Use the second box when the queen is well established and after she has it full with emerging brood remove it without the queen. Place it on a bottom board and give it a new queen. You will have a new strong hive by fall. ----------------------------------------------------------------- Carl Mueller West Palm Beach, Florida USA Email: cmueller@emi.net I think therefore, I am politically incorrect!! ----------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 Apr 1995 14:16:52 PDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Adrian Wenner Subject: Varroa documentation Comments: To: BEE-L%ALBNYVM1.BITNET@cmsa.Berkeley.EDU I am trying to confirm the year in which varroa mites were first documented as they appeared in the various states of the U.S. For most of the states there seems to be no question about the year in which they appeared. However, for some states I would appreciate receiving more reliable input about year of infestation. 1) For Kansas, Minnesota, and Oklahoma, I have conflicting reports. Can any of you provide me with accurate dates (year) in which these mites were first documented in these three states? 2) For Alabama, Colorado, Georgia, Idaho, New Mexico, Tennessee, Vermont, and Wyoming, the only information I have is that these states were clean until 1993. Can anyone provide more accurate information than that for these states? 3) For Michigan, I have the single date (1987) when varroa mites were first reported there. Is that correct? I will deeply appreciate any help that can be provided. Adrian *************************************************************** * Adrian Wenner E-Mail wenner@lifesci.lscf.ucsb.edu * * Department of Biology Office Phone (805) 893-2838 * * University of California Lab Phone (805) 893-2838 * * Santa Barbara, CA 93106 FAX (805) 893-4724 * *************************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 Apr 1995 17:26:55 U Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Larry Farris Subject: ALERT ** ALERT Subject: Time:5:16 PM OFFICE MEMO ALERT ** ALERT Date:4/21/95 To: All Internet Users Our company has just sent out a warning to users of the Internet. Some user of AOL has just sent out a new deadly (to your hard drive) virus, it is in a file called "Good Times" - DO NOT ACCESS THIS FILE. TRASH OR DELETE IT WITHOUT READING IT. It will completely erase and rewrite your hard drive making it useless. - Larry Farris (Dallas, TX) ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 Apr 1995 16:06:39 PDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jane Beckman Subject: Re: ALERT ** ALERT Oh god's teeth, good times is here again. This one is a virus in itself, on warning messages. This one was a hoax to begin with, and is aquiring a life that Craig Shergold would envy. --Jane B. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 Apr 1995 17:23:03 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jerry J Bromenshenk Subject: Re: Feeders In-Reply-To: from "<@UACSC2.ALBANY.EDU:owner-bee-l@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU>" at Apr 21, 95 02:14:48 pm Hi: As per sucrose solutions, I may have tunnel vision. This is not late spring for us, we still have snow showers. At this time of year in Montana, we have fed both weak and strong sugar solutions. Our experience with weak sugar solutions fed to packages was not good, the growth rate and behavior of the bees fed the weak solutions did not match those fed the stronger sugar solution. However, the metabolic costs, moisture conditions, weather stress, etc. can be very different at this time of year from region to region. An overwintered colony with crystallized honey stores will be hauling water. Sugar solutions can simlute a nectar flow and stimulate activities such as egg-laying. My impression from the original note was that the sugar was being fed to start a colony as its sole food supply, not to simply stimulate it. Bottom line, I suspect much of the 1:1, 1:2, 2:1 arguement is "seat-of-the pants" more than it is based on solid evidence. I don't have adequate data to examine all of the ramifications, maybe some of the physiologists in the group do. Thanks for pointing out the possible error of my hasty conclusion. Jerry Bromenshenk The University of Montana jjbmail@selway.umt.edu ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 Apr 1995 21:07:03 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Gerard Worrell Subject: Re: feeders (Kelley) In-Reply-To: <199504210403.AAA00741@cbl.umd.edu> Kelley, I think primarily the reason to use interior feeders is that you know you are feeding your own bees! Out in the open, you will be feeding all the bees in a 3 mile radius that get wind of it. You know how much is being taken by each colony. If a colony is weak, and not taking it either, it's a sign to do other things. Also if the weather is bad, the bees can still get the syrup without going 'out to dine'. An open feeder will also entail having floats to keep the bees from drowning in it. Need more surface area than a bucket could provide. a trough would be more like it. I knew of someone who did just that- cut a water tank lengthwise, put wooden floats in it and filled. What a sight! bees coming from everywhere! Jerry Worrell, Dunkirk,MD ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 Apr 1995 21:25:24 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Dave Green, Eastern Pollinator Newsletter" Subject: Re: Senator Coats jab at us jdschn@DILBERT.MONSANTO.COM (John D Schneider): >First of all, I love beekeeping, and have the highest regard for it, both as a profession and as a hobby. But I sense a great deal of tunnel-vision in the posts of the many distinguished folks we have heard from. >Sure, beekeeping has it's problems, from AHB to mites to pesticides to regulation, and research will need to be done if these problems are going to be solved. But let me ask the fundamental question none of you have asked, "What business does the government have in funding research for a private industry"? If the beekeeeping industry needs government money for research to solve it's problems, then so does every industry. Every industry has it's needs. Should the government fund research on apple trees, corn, soybean, lettuce, or every other crop anyone grows for a living? Each has it's own specific problems it is trying to solve. What about the non-agriculture businesses. The glass industry, the paint industry, the steel industry, the fishing industry, the automobile industry, the list is in the thousands. Should the government fund research for every industry in the country? If so, how could we afford it? And if not, why does beekeeping rate and the others don't? I won't flame you; you raise some good points, and I am inclined to agree with you on philosophical grounds. But you are missing a couple of very relevant input points. Agriculture in general, and beekeeping in specific, have not shared in the benefits of modern America in true proportion to the contribution they make. I have watched my father struggle and work hard all his life; he was a top-notch farmer, and one of the most productive of all American workers. Today he has virtually nothing. Dad had to carry the money lender, the farm implement dealer, the chemical folks, the local machine shop, and a score of others, all of whom provided *services* to *help* him, most of whom lived better than he did, and are comfortably retired today. As a beekeeper, I can see that I am headed in the same direction, but it is probably too late to change course. My work is not valued by others; in 1989 the state poisoned my livestock to the extent of three years of my productive life, to recover to somewhere near where I had been. No one in authority has made any step toward justice; all are inclined to look the other way, and cover their own butts. If it matters, the poisoning was done illegally, by a state agency, charged with protecting the environment, in the form of a pesticide applied in violation of label directions. Your company and many others fund research in agriculture. I have no proble m with that, as research is always needed. But the purpose of that research is oriented toward making ever bigger profits for your company. Who funds the needed research for items that cannot generate big profits? If I decide to plant ten acres of strawberries, I can go to my extension office and get reams of information on plastic mulch, irrigations systems, soil fumigation, pesticides, nursery stock, etc. There are folks making good money off each of these, and extension is responsive to that. But any information on pollination will be sparse, if available at all. (I am trying to fill this info gap, myself, to some extent, but finding that it is very expensive and difficult, even to do on a very small scale. I do not have the resources of a large corporation, nor do I see any real hope of profit in this; it is simply to do something that is needed). I won't embarrass you by asking you how much your endeavors reward you, and compare it to my rewards for mine; just mention the possibility that tunnel vision can work in alternate directions as well. The beekeeping industry is down for the count. Many of my colleagues have quit, and I may soon be forced to join them. If beekeeping is a vital part of our nation's food supply, and it is very much in danger of being lost, is this not a valid matter of public interest? If our steel industry is in trouble, or our automobile industry, etc., we as a people have determined on occasion, that some form of emergency aid is in the national interest. Certainly beekeeping should have the same treatment; unfortunately it is so poorly understood, that it may be too late by the time awareness sets in. I have always been skeptical of doomsday prophets. But today I am convinced that we will see famine in America (and probably other areas that thought they were exempt, too), within the next decade or so. I am not gloryi ng or wallowing in this; I shrink from it, only recognizing it as the only possible conclusion to trends I see operative today. Every year we have more parasites and fewer producers. There are those who are capable, but content to let society support them; there are also those who rake off rewards far in excess of their real contribution. Too many parasites kill the host. Think about it. As I said, couldn't the producers be tossed a few crumbs? Pollinator@aol.com Dave Green Dave's Pollination Service & Eastern Pollinator Newsletter PO Box 1215, Hemingway, SC 29554 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 Apr 1995 17:39:46 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Joan Tuckey Subject: honey testing Help! Where can honey be tested for various residues? In the past few years government funding changes have forced changes in the services offered to industry and in many cases private industry has yet to fill the void. A case in point is the testing of honey. Currently there is no place in Alberta where a beekeeper can get honey tested for his own reasons. Can anyone identify a lab capable of testing honey on a fee for service basis? There is a need for labs that can do pollen analysis, tests for antibiotic residues, tests for other chemicals such as fluvalinate as well as tests for herbicides, insecticides etc. For Alberta, preference would be for labs in Canada or the United States. If you know of such a lab please give address and telephone and fax numbers. If an internet address is available it would be helpful but voice numbers are essential. Please also tell the type of testing they do and an idea of the costs - if you know. After a period of time I will post a compilation of the responses to this query. ... Joan (joan.tuckey@nn.lcrnet.org) ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 22 Apr 1995 07:36:55 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Eric Abell Subject: Re: Carniolans or Italians ? In-Reply-To: <9504211645.AA02387@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca> On Fri, 21 Apr 1995, (Alistair Carr RS/RC (608) 221-6363) wrote: > Fellow Bee-Heads, > > I have to make a decision, and wondered if anyone out there can help me with > any advice or opinions. > > I have been keeping bees for about a year, fulfilling an ambition I have had > since I was 10 or 11. Finally I stopped playing the vagrant student, > settled down and bought a hive. It has proven to be every bit as fascinating > and satisfying as I hoped - even a duel with Varroa to spice it up ! > > Anyway...this spring I would like to split my one hive, and start a second, > partly to forestall swarming, partly to satisfy an urge to multiply ;). I live > in south-central Wisconsin, in the enlightened city of Madison, where I am an > urban guerilla beekeeper operating illegally (no, I don't wear camouflage > overalls and keep my hive in a bunker)..more on that situation another time. > > My present colony is Dadant's Midnite hybrid, and I want the second colony > also to be gentle. My choice of locally bred queens is between an Italian > strain, which I am led to believe is quite docile, and a Carniolan strain. My > understanding is that perhaps the Carniolan would be more suited to northern > climes, but may produce less honey (not a big deal to me), and be prone to > swarming. My concern with the Italians is that they could be more irritable, > and perhaps winter less well here. Any advice would be gratefully recieved. > > Gotta fly now, I hear sirens.... > > > > Alistair > You said honey is not a concern. Then why not let the bees do most of the work. There are lots of ways to split - the object here being to move some bees and brood into a new brood chamber and let them raise their own Queen. Perhaps the most basic would be to wait until your colony occupies the best part of 2 brook chambers - with brood in both of them. Best to check to see if there are eggs in both chambers because these eggs are going to become your new queen. If there are not already eggs in both chambers simply rearrange the brood so that there is. Now separate these 2 chambers and place them side by side. Chances are good that the flying bees will distribute themselves evenly enough to avoid loss of brood. If they don't then either move some bees around or reverse their position. One chamber will have a Queen - 1 will not. It does not matter which one - you can look for eggs in 4 days and see for yourself. Then sit back and wait for your new Queen to emerge, mate and lay some eggs. It is not very high tech but it is a nice feeling to think you had some small part in producing a new Queen. I realize you have not controlled the drone line with which your Queen will mate but I would think your bees will be gentle anyway. Good luck and have fun! Eric Abell email: eabell@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca Gibbons, AB, T0A 1N0 Canada (403) 998 3143 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 22 Apr 1995 10:36:08 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Jack C. Turner" Subject: Re: killer bees In-Reply-To: <199504211800.OAA81314@pen1.pen.k12.va.us>; from "Thomas W. Culliney" at Apr 21, 95 7:51 am I was familiar with a "mean" bee as a kid in the Appalachians that my grandparents called the German bee. Around here now, people refer to a bee which I believe to be the same one as the Cumberland Mountain bee (its often associated with feral colonies). I'm wondering if this was the bee introduced by the colonists. Jack Turner ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 22 Apr 1995 07:48:30 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Ken Umbach (kumbach@agency.resource.ca.gov)" Subject: Re: ALERT ** ALERT Comments: To: Larry Farris In-Reply-To: <9504212254.AA22586@agency.ceres.ca.gov> THIS IS A NOTORIOUS HOAX!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! This thing has been making the rounds of internet for months. Repeat: it is a HOAX, people!!!!! Viruses CANNOT be transmitted in a text file, they require an executable program file (.exe, .com., .ovl). Get it???? Ken On Fri, 21 Apr 1995, Larry Farris wrote: > Subject: Time:5:16 > PM > OFFICE MEMO ALERT ** ALERT > Date:4/21/95 > > To: All Internet Users > Our company has just sent out a warning to users of the Internet. > Some user of AOL has just sent out a new deadly (to your hard drive) > virus, it is in a file called "Good Times" - DO NOT ACCESS THIS FILE. > TRASH OR DELETE IT WITHOUT READING IT. It will completely erase and > rewrite your hard drive making it useless. - Larry Farris (Dallas, TX) > ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 22 Apr 1995 11:56:39 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Darlene Scribilo Subject: Re: bee venom collection for ... Comments: To: owner-bee-l@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU, Pollinator@AOL.COM Comments: cc: dgscribi@system6.lcs.gov.bc.ca In-Reply-To: Hello Dave Green (Pollinator) Thanks for the reply to my posting about bee venom collection. I can't give you much insight into collecting venom as a commercial venture as I don't collect it for commercial purposes. I also don't market the devices. Your best bet is to contact Michael Simics 204-1331 15th Ave., S.W. Calgary, Alberta Canada T3C 0X8 PH/Fax (403) 541-1877 He collects venom for research and experimental purposes and sells high quality venom collectors. Darlene dgscribi@system6.lcs.gov.bc.ca ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 22 Apr 1995 13:52:32 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jerry J Bromenshenk Subject: Re: honey testing In-Reply-To: from "Joan Tuckey" at Apr 21, 95 05:39:46 pm We test for residues in a variety of bee life stages and bee products. However, the issue is not simply finding a laborotory who can do the work under contract. Depending on the residues, entirely different instrumentation, extraction procedures, etc. are involved. Few labs would be able to cover it all, rather they will specialize in certain types of residues or matrices. Nor can a lab that routinely analyzes environmental samples necessarily do an accurate and precise job with honey, pollen, bees, wax, propolis, etc. The problem is that each of these hive components presents unique problems. For example, honey is sticky and varies considerably in terms of moisture content. Do you dry the honey? and if so, how? Do you use a "wet sample"? and if so, how do you accurately transfer it? As for bees, do you wash or not wash them prior to processing? How were they preserved? If you are interested in organics, bees are fatty. The fat crudes up the columns. Too much fat, and you can throw the column away. Clean up too much of the fat, and you throw the residue of interest away. A laboratory capable of looking for antibiotics in honey probably does not have the capability or interest in conducting an analysis for fluvalinate, one is a microbiological issue, the other organic chemistry. Thus, you may wish to categorize your needs and rank any responding laboratories according to their capabilities, experience, and costs. Jerry Bromenshenk The University of Montana Missoula, MT 59812-1002 jjbmail@selway.umt.edu ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 23 Apr 1995 09:01:22 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Philippe Audibert Comments: To: Bee-L@uacsc2.albany.edu. Subcribe Bee-l ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 23 Apr 1995 18:20:21 GMT Reply-To: Gordon@apis.demon.co.uk Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Gordon Scott Subject: Subscribing Comments: cc: Pilou@ix.netcom.com In message <9504231702.aa06643@punt2.demon.co.uk> BEE-L@uacsc2.albany.edu writes: > Subcribe Bee-l > > Hi, Close -- you have to send it to the listserv admin address, not Bee-l itself. Use the address listserv@uacsc2.albany.edu and you should get underway o.k. (include a line 'help' too if you want more info). Mailed direct and to the list. -- Gordon Scott Gordon@apis.demon.co.uk 100332,3310 on CompuServe Newsletter Beekeeper@apis.demon.co.uk ditto Beekeeper, Kendo Sandan, sometime sailor. Basingstoke, Hampshire, RG22 5HP, UK ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 23 Apr 1995 18:26:08 GMT Reply-To: Gordon@apis.demon.co.uk Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Gordon Scott Subject: Re: Senator Coats jab at us Dave Green wrote: > jdschn@DILBERT.MONSANTO.COM (John D Schneider): > >First of all, I love beekeeping, and have the highest regard for it, > >both as a profession and as a hobby...... > > I won't flame you; you raise some good points, and I am inclined to agree > with you on philosophical grounds. But you are missing a couple of very > relevant input points...... Indeed! As an example, the value of beekeeping to the UK economy is difficult to estimate, however I believe most estimates put it between 300 million UKP and 3 billion UKP. Britain's governmental investment in beekeeping is a few tens of thousands of UKP. British beekeepers collectively probably make only a few hundred thousand. Most UK beekeepers are hobbyists and those who aren't, frankly scratch a living -- nobody here gets rich in beekeeping, few if any people anywhere get rich beekeeping. As a hobbyist, the money I make goes to help fund my hobby. In truth, I don't make enough to cover the costs, but then that isn't my primary concern -- I do it for the beekeeping (even if the little beasties did give me a pasting today). By the way, for those of you who earn a living in this game, I know it's not perfect but I make a point of _not_ undercharging for honey, wax, pollination etc. (Well actually, I help out a couple of local guys occasionally when the pollination contracts are a bit tight and they need a few extra bees). The chemical companies here openly admit that they are unlikely to follow the present treatments for varroa with anything else because "there's no money in it". Directly they are undoubtedly right, indirectly they are almost certainly wrong. But then who supports infrastucture in a go-getting economy. I sincerely hope that Dave's fears of a famine are unduly pessimistic. I believe that the human race rises well to these challenges, even if as so often at the eleventh hour. However some things change _very_ quickly and this may be one of them. Beekeeping _could_ collapse and the effects would be catastrophic. Famine *is* a possibility and if it happens, it won't be 'just' America, it will be the whole world! That's enough railing. To echo Dave's first line, this is *not* a flame. It *is* a statement of real concern for beekeeping in particular and ecology in general. Best regards, -- Gordon Scott Gordon@apis.demon.co.uk 100332,3310 on CompuServe Newsletter Beekeeper@apis.demon.co.uk ditto Beekeeper, Kendo Sandan, sometime sailor. Basingstoke, Hampshire, RG22 5HP, UK ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 23 Apr 1995 18:22:46 -0400 Reply-To: aa2363@freenet.lorain.oberlin.edu Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Kevin R. Palm" Subject: Hiving packages in cold weather? Dear BEE-L'rs, I have a problem. I live in Northeastern Ohio, near Cleve- land, and the tenmperature tonight and tomorrow is supposed to be in the 40-50 degree range with occasiobnal rain, possibly snow, but no accumulation. I'm supposed to get a package of bees from a member of our county beekeeper's association who is bringing them up from tyhe south. I'm picking them up tomorrow. Is is possible to hive a package of bees in this weather?? The queen is going to be a Taber (sp?) queen. If I can't hive them immediately, how long will they stay alive in the 3# package?? Thanks for the help!! ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 23 Apr 1995 19:37:27 -0300 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Eunice D. Wonnacott" Subject: Re: African bees >I have kept a small number of colonies (up to 30) for the last 15 years and >am going to Zambia for 2 years next October. I would like to try my hand at >keeping Afrian bees and need some information. > >I have heard that there is "top bar hive" that has been used in Kenya. Does >any one have a reference to construction details? > >Any information or advice on keeping bees in Africa would be much appreciated. > >TIA Glenn > >Glenn McLeod Tel. 1(519)268-3003 >776 Cromarty Drive Fax. 1(519)268-2613 >Dorchester, ON N0L 1G0 e-mail dmcleod@julian.uwo.ca > >Check with Apiculturist at Guelph University, Guelph, ON. Some years ago there was an apiculturist who spent a year or two in one of the African countries. On his return, he was featured speaker at the annual Meeting of the PEI Beekeepers CoOp. His pictures (Moving, with sound) plus personal talk were wonderful! It was like sitting beside the hive! There is a wealth of information in this presentation. I hope there is clue enough for you to locate it. The University in Nairobi will have materials which you could access, as well Good luck, and enjoy your time there! ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 Apr 1995 15:40:00 -0800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Hugo Veerkamp Subject: Beenet adress dear beefriends, since my last message here, a new & fully operational network host was found, so that I will be able to receive Email again on my 'old' adress ( see signature below) Sorry to all those who got their Email to me back with an error message! sincerely, Hugo -- \|/ @ @ Hugo Veerkamp ----------oOO-(_)-OOo--------------------------------------------- | reply to: BEENET INTERNATIONAL | | Hugo.Veerkamp@f28.n2801.z2.fidonet.org| mail : the Bee bbs | | | P.O. BOX 51008 | | DO NOT SIMPLY PRESS REPLY BUTTON !! | 1007EA AMSTERDAM | |(or your reply gets lost in bit heaven)| The Netherlands | | Beenet : 240:31/0 | modem: +31 20 6764105 | | Fidonet: 2:2801/28 | voice: +31 20 6715663 | ------------------------------------------------------------------ ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 23 Apr 1995 21:40:25 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Dave Johnson Subject: virgin queens A healthy, overwintered colony of midnight (hybrid) bees swarmed on April 6th and 9th. A careful inspection on the 9th revealed several empty queen cells, a couple maturing queen cells, and some capped brood. An inspection today (April 23rd) yielded no brood in any stages of development and all queen cells empty. Has this colony become queenless or is there still time for a virgin to mate and lay? Do I need to introduce a young, mated queen to this colony? Or do I just need patience? Help, please. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 23 Apr 1995 22:40:57 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Dave Green, Eastern Pollinator Newsletter" Subject: Re: virgin queens godave@INFI.NET (Dave Johnson): >An inspection today (April 23rd) yielded no brood in any stages of developmen t and all queen cells empty. >Has this colony become queenless or is there still time for a virgin to mate and lay? Do I need to introduce a young, mated queen to this colony? Or do I just need patience? Sometimes it seems like forever to get the new queen laying. Or it could be that a bird or dragonfly got her on her mating flight. There seems to be a lot of dragonflies this spring around here. One very good clue is to observe the bees. They know if they have a queen. Do they seem quiet and content? Or are they runny and fanning a lot? It's not a good idea to introduce a mated, caged queen, at least not alone. If there is a queen already there, you've wasted one queen, and if there isn't, they probably won't accept her anyway, as there are few young bees left. I have begun the standard practice of giving a frame of brood to all captured swarms (with eggs), and to any nuc, if there is the slightest doubt that the queen has gotten mated. It works well; it boosts them up quite a bit, keeping a more even distribution of age groups of workers, and, if needed, they can make emergency cells. When there is little doubt, rather the certainty that they have failed to get a mated queen, it is a good idea to place a nuc into the hive. Or you can simulate a nuc, by giving them a caged queen and two frames of sealed brood. What is important is to introduce young bees again, so the queen will be accepted. The problems associated with swarming are a real pain in the neck. As much as possible, it's best to prevent it in the first place. Pollinator@aol.com Dave Green SCarolina ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 Apr 1995 02:58:00 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Crawfords Electronics <0006173164@MCIMAIL.COM> Subject: Re: virgin queens To: Discussion of Bee Biology(EMS) | EMS: INTERNET / MCI ID: 376-5414 | MBX: BEE-L@uacsc2.albany.edu Subject: Re: virgin queens > I have begun the standard practice of giving a frame of brood to all >captured swarms (with eggs), and to any nuc, if there is the slightest doubt >that the queen has gotten mated. It works well; it boosts them up quite a >bit, keeping a more even distribution of age groups of workers, and, if >needed, they can make emergency cells. > > The problems associated with swarming are a real pain in the neck. As >much as possible, it's best to prevent it in the first place. > >Pollinator@aol.com Dave Green SCarolina When I talk to novice beekeepers, and they say they are going to get a (one) hive, I always suggest that, if possible - get two. That way if, as most beginners, they are constantly messing with the poor critters, and the queen accidentally gets - lost, they can bring a frame from the other hive to correct the problem. In my early years I would hive a swarm or a removal and never be sure that they would stay put. After I started putting a frame of brood in each new start, I never lost another one. And as Dave Green has said - if the queen isn't there they'll make new queen cells in a few days, from some of the freshly laid eggs and the problem is solved. This is a practice that was engaged after two of three, 3#ers w/buckfast queens, absconded the morning after hiving, never to be seen again. David Crawford Pinole, CA. 6173164@mcimail.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 Apr 1995 04:40:04 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jeremy Burbidge Subject: Reguest for help Matthew J Allan BSc NDB Editor of Bee Biz 41 George Street Eastleigh S050 9BT UK phone + 1703 617969 e-mail ruxbury delphi.com 22nd April 1995 Could I request some help from knowledgable users of the lnternet? I am editor of Bee Biz, which is a new magazine for commercial beekeepers around the world. The first issue will come out in tune for Apitnondia in August of this year. I am keen to (a) include an article for novices like myself which would be an introduction to the Intemet, describing how to, costs, why and benefits to my beekeeping, and (b) include some sort of directory of the beekeeping information and contacts that can be accessed - I guess that the latter would need to be regularly updated. Can anyone help, or point me in any particular direction? Many thanks. Matthew J ABan ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 Apr 1995 09:00:21 GMT Reply-To: Gordon@apis.demon.co.uk Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Gordon L. Scott" Subject: Re: virgin queens Dave Johnson wrote: > A healthy, overwintered colony of midnight (hybrid) bees swarmed on April > 6th and 9th. A careful inspection on the 9th revealed several empty queen > cells, a couple maturing queen cells, and some capped brood. An inspection > today (April 23rd) yielded no brood in any stages of development and all > queen cells empty. > > Has this colony become queenless or is there still time for a virgin to mate > and lay? Do I need to introduce a young, mated queen to this colony? Or do > I just need patience? Almost always this is normal so don't panic. A new queen should be laying within 21 days of *her* emerging, but until then the colony can look desolate. Dave Grren's comment about behaviour id good -- if the the colony is calm then they have a queen. Multiple empty queen cells suggests that you have lost secondary swarms as well as the prime swarm. This happens whilst there are still plenty of bees and multiple queens. The queen you almost certainly have will probably have emerged after the date you expect because the first queens that emerged went with the secondary swarm(s). There's nothing you can do about than now except wait, however you can plan for the next time it happens. Probably, you need to know how to make an 'artificial swarm' so the bees do what you want, not what they want. You can use a variation on this to recover the situation if you catch the prime swarm when it first goes. Never put a new queen into a 'queenless' colony unless you're _really_ sure they're queenless or you'll waste a queen -- always test first with frame of brood -- if they draw emergency queen cells then they really are queenless. Regards, -- Gordon Scott Gordon@apis.demon.co.uk Compuserve 100332,3310 Gordon@multitone.co.uk Basingstoke Beekeeper Beekeeper@apis.demon.co.uk ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 Apr 1995 08:41:00 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Dave Green, Eastern Pollinator Newsletter" Subject: Good advice on virgins Comments: To: Gordon@apis.demon.co.uk Gordon@apis.demon.co.uk, >Multiple empty queen cells suggests that you have lost secondary swarms as well as the prime swarm. This happens whilst there are still plenty of bees and multiple queens. The queen you almost certainly have will probably have emerged after the date you expect because the first queens that emerged went with the secondary swarm(s). There's nothing you can do about than now except wait, however you can plan for the next time it happens. > -- always test first with frame of brood -- if they draw emergency queen cells then they really are queenless. Very well done, Gordon. One additional point: Virgins, even young mated queens, are very runny, and it is not a good idea to tear a hive apart looking for them. They are apt to take wing if you get them too excited, raising the probablility of losing them. Let them settle down and get some brood started, before you examine them closely. Pollinator@aol.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 Apr 1995 10:23:55 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Mick Youther Subject: Hiving packages in cold weather? I have the same problem as Kevin. I live in southern Illinois but the weather has turned pretty cool. My bees are at the Post Office and I will pick them up this afternoon. It is supposed to get down to about 40 degrees Farenheit tonight with possible showers. Is is also supposed to be cool this week. 50's-60's during the day and in the 40's at night. Is it OK to hive the package or what. These are my first bees...HELP! ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 Apr 1995 10:16:54 CST6CDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: BLANE WHITE Organization: Minnesota Dept of Agriculture Subject: Re: Hiving packages in cold weather? Hi, Here in MN we need to hive packages in mid April if they are to be ready for our honeyflow on July1. As a result we often hive them in cool or cold weather. It doesn't seem to bother the bees as long as the feeder is directly over the cluster so they can get the feed while clustered. You can remove four frames from the box, set the package in the hive body and close the cover while you get the feeders ready etc. The package will warm the combs some. When you remove the queen cage, put her in your pocket to protect her from the weather and dump the bees into the box. Release the queen into the bees, put the frames back in, add the feeder and close it up. We hived 40 packages a few weeks ago in cold rain (30's) and wind but they seemed to handle it ok. good luck Blane ****************************************** Blane White State Apiary Inspector Minnesota Department of Agriculture Division of Plant Protection 90 W Plato Blvd St Paul, MN 55107 ph 612-296-0591 fax 612-296-7386 bwhite@mda-is.mda.state.mn.us ******************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 Apr 1995 11:22:23 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Gerard Worrell Subject: summary of comments Re: chalkbrood control In-Reply-To: <39BA1DE7C13@mda-is.mda.state.mn.us> On Fri, 21 Apr 1995, BLANE WHITE wrote: > Hi Gerard, > There is an ongoing effort to get some new materials registered for > varroa control and at present this has priority over chalkbrood. > Neem extract is one possible control being looked at and may help > with chalkbrood and nosema as well as varroa but much basic work > needs to be done. These botanicals are much easier to get EPA > approval for so maybe we will have some more options soon as you know > we really do need them. > Blane > > Blane White > State Apiary Inspector > Minnesota Department of Agriculture > bwhite@mda-is.mda.state.mn.us > ******************************************** > Second message from Blane: There is ongoing efforts to get some other materials registered for varroa control that have priority over chalkbrood. Neem extract is one. Botanicals are easier to get EPA registration Paul van Westendorp suggested I contact Dr. Liu directly at: lius@abrsbl.agr.ca Mark Jensen replied: Article by the same author in Mar issue of ABJ on use of Neem (Margosan) for chalkbrood and nosema. Thanks for the comments. Jerry Worrell, Dunkirk,MD worrell@cbl.umd.edu ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 Apr 1995 11:23:32 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Joseph Cooper Subject: Re: Hiving packages in cold weather? In-Reply-To: I assume that you have ordered a threee-pound package; but a two-pound package will also work for you. As far as I'm concerned you have ideal weather for installing a package. Try to have an experienced beekeeper on on site to hold you hand. Otherwise, do the best you can. The bees have had several millions of years experience and they know what to do without cracking a book of instructions. Good luck. ************************* * Joseph Cooper * * jcooper@infinet.com * ************************* ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 Apr 1995 11:14:56 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: marion ellis Subject: Re: Hiving packages in cold weather? In-Reply-To: <9504241428.AA03313@unlinfo.unl.edu> from "Mick Youther" at Apr 24, 95 10:23:55 am >Kevin in Illinois wrote the following about installing package bees in cold rainy weather: > I have the same problem as Kevin. I live in southern Illinois but the weather > has turned pretty cool. My bees are at the Post Office and I will pick them > up this afternoon. It is supposed to get down to about 40 degrees Farenheit > tonight with possible showers. Is is also supposed to be cool this week. > 50's-60's during the day and in the 40's at night. Is it OK to hive the > package or what. These are my first bees...HELP! > Here is how I deal with this problem: Package bees can be installed in a garage or other dark building at night using a red light (which bees do not see) for illumination. They can be kept in darkness for several days and fed to get them established in their new home. Move them outside after they have started building comb and have some feed stored. This works nicely when packages arrive during cold or wet periods. It allows them to get in a hive and start working and is much better than holding them in a cage. Be sure the holding room is completely dark if you leave installed bees inside during daylight hours. I routinely install package bees this way. It cuts down on drifting. Also, packages installed outside may cluster away from the feeder in cool weather and starve with a feeder on them. I do not know why the practice of installing packages outside persist with the problems of drifting, clustering away from feed, wind, mud, etc... As with any other package bee installation method, it is money well spent to feed the bees a gallon of syrup medicated with Fumidil-b upon installation. New beekeepers need not worry about bees exhibiting defensive behavior during package installation at night with red light. Tape your pant legs and wear a bee veil. I rarely get a sting during this type of installation and all the bees end up in the hive where they belong. Anyone have any variations of this method to share? * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Marion D. Ellis Assistant Professor and * * University of Nebraska Extension Apiculture Specialist * * Department of Entomology email: mellis@unlinfo.unl.edu * * P.O. Box 830816 Phone: 402-472-2125 * * Lincoln, NE 68583-0816 Fax: 402-472-4687 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 Apr 1995 05:00:00 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Keith Cutting Subject: Re: Hiving packages in cold weather? Comments: To: marion ellis We installed several packages this past Sat.. The outside air temp was 42 deg. F., gentle winds and cloudy. The bees were shaken into the top of the single deep. They were a little slow to work down, it took about 20 to 30 minutes for them to work down enough to put the inner cover on. We installed three pound packages. Sunday was a partly cloudy day with temps in the low 50's. All the new installed hives had bees out. This is a fairly common installation condition for our area. <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<: Keith.Cutting@Dartmouth.edu The Cutting Farm Kearsage Beekeepers Association 103 North Road NH Beef Producers Association Sunapee, New Hampshire 03782 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 Apr 1995 14:13:31 -0400 Reply-To: Martin S Damus Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Martin S Damus Subject: Re: ALERT ** ALERT On Fri, 21 Apr 1995, Larry Farris wrote: > virus, it is in a file called "Good Times" - DO NOT ACCESS THIS FILE. > TRASH OR DELETE IT WITHOUT READING IT. It will completely erase and > rewrite your hard drive making it useless. - Larry Farris (Dallas, TX) > This is not the first time I've heard of an alert for Good Times. Apparently it is impossible for an internet bug to access your hard disk, and there is no need to worry. E-mail messages are not executable files, and cannot affect your computer. It's a different thing if you retrieve some file by ftp and then run it on your computer, but this doesn't happen with e-mail files. MDamus ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 Apr 1995 10:06:00 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Paul van Westendorp 576-5600 Fax: 576-5652" Subject: Re: Senator Coats jab at us I have followed the discussion on research funding with great interest. The argument that government should not be in the research business but only the private sector is attractive to some, especially for those in business to sell the spinoffs of research. But, lets look briefly at the enormous benefits society now enjoys because of publicly- funded research. The US government has plunked billions into NASA over many decades. I recognize that this research was principally fueled by political and military considerations but, today we enjoy an enormous array of consumer goods whose origins came from publicly funded research (ps. lets not forget the Internet we are using right now, and the chips inside the very computers we use right now!). In the agricultural field, we can use the celebrated example of canola. The primary world producers of rapeseed were Poland and India. Then, in the seventies, Agriculture Canada unveiled this marvelous new crop called Canola after years of breeding. These studies were publicly funded and as such, Canadian farmers had ready access to this crop. Today, Canada is the largest canola seed and oil producer in the world, which has become a billion dollar industry. I question whether farmers collectively (and the numerous small prairie communities they live in) would have benefited equally when Canola would have been introduced initially by a multinational. In today's environment of government cutbacks, reductions in publicly-funded research is inevitable and also needed. The process will hopefully identify research priorities, but I for one believe public -funded research has its place and future. P. van Westendorp pvanwesten@galaxy.gov.bc.ca Provincial Apiculturist ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 Apr 1995 14:35:38 EST5EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: CAMERON SKINNER Organization: McGill University - Chemistry Subject: Re: Winter hive loss Comments: To: BEE-L%ALBNYVM1.BITNET@VM1.MCGILL.CA John Oldfather wrote: > At a recent meeting of the Ohio State Beekeepers Association, Dr. Jim Tew was > the keynote speaker. He asked the participants how many had lost >50% of > their hives; a third of the group raised their hands. He then asked how many > had no losses and 15-20% responded. I am curious if the Bee-L subscribers > have had similar experiences. Does the use of Apistan or other medication > correlate with winter hive survival? > > I use Apistan prophyllactically, but I know many who don't. > > Thanks for any info. > > John Oldfather > Joldfather@aol.com Howdy Folks, Well I can't speak for others but I have had a very successful first winter. I started the winter with five hives. Four went into the winter on two deep supers full of honey and syrup. The last hive was put together in late July from a queen and some brood from the other hives. This hive went into the winter in a single deep super. All the hives were treated with Apistan at the recommended dosage. After the strips were removed the hives were insulated with 1.5" Stryofoam and wrapped in tar paper. We didn't have very much snow cover this winter and I did see bees occasionally flying around on very warm days. We, the bees and I, live a few miles from the Vermont - New York border on the Canadian side. Last week when I had the opportunity to open the hives I found that the four large hives had wintered quite well. Three of the four hives had 3-5 frames of brood going. I couldn't see what was going on in the fourth because the queen was using the bottom super for the brood nest. I didn't dare disassemble the hive for fear of chilling the brood at this critical stage. The fifth hive wintered poorly and only had enough bees to cover about 3 frames and only had about 2/3 of a frame of brood. I fed all of the hives pollen substitute and am feeding the weak hive syrup. The other hives still have several frames of honey and have found some source of nectar. Hope you're having a good Spring Cameron. ///////////////////////////////////////////////////// / Question for the day: / / Do witches run spell checkers? / / / / Cameron Skinner Skinner@omc.lan.McGill.ca / / McGill University / / Room 221 Otto Mass Chemistry Bldg. / / 801 Sherbrooke St. West / / Montreal, Quebec, Canada / / H3A-2K6 / / Tel. 514-398-6231 / ///////////////////////////////////////////////////// ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 Apr 1995 18:25:01 GMT Reply-To: ibra@matheson.demon.co.uk Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: ibra Subject: Re: African bees In your message dated Friday 21, April 1995 someone wrote : > I would suggest that you contact IBRA regarding Kenya Top Bar Hives > (KTBH's). Thanks for that. Yes, we do have that information (of course!), for instance in the original booklet put out by the CIDA team working in Kenya in the 1970s. The easiest way, though, to find out the answer to this question (and a whole host of other questions) is to consult Eva Crane's 'Bees and beekeeping; science, practice and world resources'. Apart from the Kenya top-bar hive the dimensions are listed for a number of different TBHs from Africa and elsewhere. This book's 614 information-packed pages will inform and education for years and years. While its price (95 pounds) will amaze, so will the content. Any library that is serious about beekeeping needs this book. It is available from IBRA, and autographed copies can be supplied on request. -- ************************************************************************** * From Andrew Matheson, Director, International Bee Research Association * * * * E.mail (home): ibra@matheson.demon.co.uk * * (office): ibra@cardiff.ac.uk * * * * IBRA, 18 North Road, Cardiff CF1 3DY, UK * * Fax (+44) 1222-665522 Telephone (+44) 1222-372409 * ************************************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 Apr 1995 14:10:30 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Subject: Strange winter loss Well, wintering looks to have been good here -- loss is running 10.5% -- our best ever, in spite of our having received a positive on an acarine test taken on the bees from our honey house window last fall, and no treatment having been ever used here. However, we did have _one yard_ where we lost 15 out of 24 hives. This particular yard produced very well last year and plugged up badly a couple of times, including once in September when they had only one super (above the double broods and excluder) during a very intense late flow. The boys report that the upper broods were still plugged on the dead hives and there is no dead cluster. The rest of the yard seems pretty normal. Now I realise that whenever these symptoms appear, everyone says 'mites' as a reflex, but we have no reason to suspect varroa (we'll be checking tho') What I'm wondering is if the queens could have been shut down enough to prevent raising winter bees and that the colonies might have died of old age. I have never seen it before. What I am wondering is specifically this: A few years back, The Peace was hit with a late flow in September and it plugged the hives right out, because no one had thought to have any supers on at that late date. A subsequent poor wintering was blamed on that fact (lack of winter bees), but I had personally sort of pooh-poohed the idea because September is a little late for much brood rearing in Alberta . On the other hand, I *have* always claimed that even good hives can be too heavy for good wintering and that there is an ideal weight range. I have had trouble recruiting believers to that latter position however -- with most commercials saying "Give 'em all they'll take". So now I'm wondering. Assuming that this isn't a mite thing, what say ye all? Allen W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper VE6CFK Rural Route One Swalwell Alberta Canada T0M 1Y0 Email: dicka@cuug.ab.ca or allend@internode.net Virtual Art Gallery: http://www.cuug.ab.ca:8001/~dicka __________________Why not drop by?____________________ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 Apr 1995 13:13:34 PDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Adrian Wenner Subject: Re: IN Sen. Dan Coats Comments: To: Discussion of Bee Biology Although it took me some time, here is my input to Sen. Coats: **************** 24 April 1995 Hon. Sen. Daniel Coats 101 N. W. Martin Luther King, Jr. Blvd. Evansville, IN 47708 Hon. Sen. Coats, In the April issue of Bee Culture you are credited with two comments that to me illustrate a profound ignorance and bias with respect to agricultural research funding, comments to which I feel compelled to reply, as follows: 1) "...the United States doesn't have a problem with screw worms. The money appropriated by the Congress...is aimed at eradicating screw worms in Mexico." By using the name, "screw worms," instead of the appropriate name, "screw worm fly," you have misled the public, people who should be able to trust you as a "leader" in our government. Flies have wings and can easily fly across the Mexican-American border - its larvae (maggots) are a devastating pest of cattle. Do you really want to be responsible (at least in part) for a future infestation of American cattle? 2) "...the United States - to my knowledge - doesn't have a problem with honey bees. But $5 million was appropriated last year to research them." The honey bee industry in the United States has an incredible set, problems that have undoubtedly already been brought to your attention. * * * * * What is really going on here? Members of Congress all too often search for sound bites that can assure re-election. The beekeeping industry is really quite a helpless group, politically - of enormous benefit to the nation - but largely invisible with respect to their contributions. An attack on that group will have no political repercussions but may gain some important votes. (Hence, it is easy to be a "bully," as we knew such behavior in earlier days.) However, Sen. Coats, how diligently have Congress members gone after the tobacco industry or wealthy people who reap federal subsidies in agribusiness? When members of Congress show consistency in their pronouncements, then we will believe they have integrity and the American taxpayer at heart. Sincerely, Adrian M. Wenner (Prof. Emeritus) Dept. of Biol. Sciences Univ. of Calif., Santa Barbara Santa Barbara, CA 93106 (Not an agricultural research institution) cc: Members of worldwide honey bee e-mail network *************************************************************** * Adrian Wenner E-Mail wenner@lifesci.lscf.ucsb.edu * * Department of Biology Office Phone (805) 893-2838 * * University of California Lab Phone (805) 893-2838 * * Santa Barbara, CA 93106 FAX (805) 893-4724 * *************************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 Apr 1995 13:18:26 PDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Adrian Wenner Subject: Re: IN Sen. Dan Coats Comments: To: Discussion of Bee Biology [It's O.K., folks, I found the typo in my message to Sen. Coats before it was mailed.] Adrian *************************************************************** * Adrian Wenner E-Mail wenner@lifesci.lscf.ucsb.edu * * Department of Biology Office Phone (805) 893-2838 * * University of California Lab Phone (805) 893-2838 * * Santa Barbara, CA 93106 FAX (805) 893-4724 * *************************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 Apr 1995 14:21:00 GMT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Andy Nachbaur Organization: Wild Bee's BBS Subject: Hiving packages in cold weather? ---------------------------------------- <>From: "Kevin R. Palm" <>Date: Sun, 23 Apr 1995 18:22:46 -0400 <>Subject: Hiving packages in cold weather? <>Dear BEE-L'rs, <> I have a problem. I live in Northeastern Ohio, near Cleve- <>land, and the tenmperature tonight and tomorrow is supposed to be <>in the 40-50 degree range with occasiobnal rain, possibly snow, <>but no accumulation. I'm supposed to get a package of bees from <>a member of our county beekeeper's association who is bringing them <>up from tyhe south. I'm picking them up tomorrow. Is is possible to <>hive a package of bees in this weather?? The queen is going to be <>a Taber (sp?) queen. If I can't hive them immediately, how long will <>they stay alive in the 3# package?? <> Thanks for the help!! Hello Kevin, That's the best time, as far as I am concerned. The bees will cluster up to keep warm, and will not fly and drift away the first day they get out. I have put them in the Rockies when its was trying to snow. One season I put in 500 over a period of a few day's with snow showers. I thought at the time I would lose them all and it turned out to bee the best packages I ever installed, I did not use the few extra queens sent with the packages that season. It was cold enough to put them in early in the afternoon. I dumped them on the bottom board, ripped the screen off the queen cage and dumped her on top of the pile. I would do 10 or more and then go back and put the frames back in. I did not poor sugar syrup all over the bee's because of the cold weather. All the hives had inside feeders to get them started on the dandelions. ttul Andy- PS Yes it was a miserable job, but one with excellent results..I only dream about such good conditions now. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 23 Apr 1995 21:22:40 +600 Reply-To: demde@hookup.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Dirk Emde Subject: Re: Senator Coats jab at us I wish to add something to this; jdschn@DILBERT.MONSANTO.COM (John D Schneider): >First of all, I love beekeeping, and have the highest regard for it, both as a profession and as a hobby. But I sense a great deal of >Sure, beekeeping has it's problems, from AHB to mites to pesticides to regulation, and research will need to be done if these problems are going to I won't flame you; you raise some good points, and I am inclined to agree with you on philosophical grounds. But you are missing a couple of very relevant input points. Agriculture in general, and beekeeping in specific, have not shared in the benefits of modern America in true proportion to the contribution they make. Totally true. This is the case for all those who have been consumed with the quality of their work, rather than the quantity. The people benefitting the most contribute the least. I have always been skeptical of doomsday prophets. But today I am convinced that we will see famine in America (and probably other areas that That is what it will take to get the public's attention. If your benefits don't measure up, refuse to deliver the goods. Every year we have more parasites and fewer producers. There are those who are capable, but content to let society support them; there are also those who rake off rewards far in excess of their real contribution. Too many parasites kill the host. Think about it. Again, let the parasites produce their own honey, shoes, bicycles, whatever, then we'll talk again. As I said, couldn't the producers be tossed a few crumbs? Asking for a few crumbs got the producers into this mess. Demand your fair share or close shop. That's the only language understood. There can be no compromise. Let's get back to the America where the craftsperson was the most valued, not the banker or shopkeeper. Anyone can sell something, but just let them try producing something from what nature gives us to work with. When I see what sports people make while farmers are going bankrupt I get very angry. Enough said, or maybe too much already. Ciao, Dirk ********************************************************** Dirk Emde demde@hookup.net Kitchener On Canada ********************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 Apr 1995 20:14:27 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: John Bongiovanni Subject: Re: First hive in 15 years Mike, et al: You'll find that if you stay out of the line of flight you can get a lot closer to watch your new "humdingers" work than wherein binoculars would be useful - and do it safely, too! With my Caucasians, it's no problem three feet away - off to the side! : /``` . || : @@--9 `` .";; " (0) || |||||||||||||| : <\,\\_ ` '"" (((0))) || When pleasure :\\ ^/(8)\\ " ", ((((0)))) || Remains... : \\((0))// `" "((((0)))))) || Can It Remain : ///\\\ //\ (((((("))))))) || A Pleasure! : // \\// ---- ||jbongie@delphi.com || |||||||||||||| | _\\ ======= ||John C. Bongiovanni|| ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 Apr 1995 19:27:34 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Subject: NHB Database Just a reminder that the NHB database can be found at the URL in my signature (below). It contains a lot of data and can be searched using the 'find' function on your brouser. If anyone has any other bee stuff of quality that needs exposure on the web, please email me and we'll talk. Allen W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper VE6CFK Rural Route One Swalwell Alberta Canada T0M 1Y0 Email: dicka@cuug.ab.ca or allend@internode.net Virtual Art Gallery: http://www.cuug.ab.ca:8001/~dicka __________________Why not drop by?____________________ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 Apr 1995 21:03:40 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Phil Veldhuis Subject: Re: Strange winter loss >However, we did have _one yard_ where we lost 15 out of 24 hives. This >particular yard produced very well last year and plugged up badly a couple >of times, including once in September when they had only one super (above >the double broods and excluder) during a very intense late flow. This is the key to your troubles in my opinion. What I'm wondering is if the queens could have been shut down >enough to prevent raising winter bees and that the colonies might have >died of old age. I have never seen it before. I have seen this. The relevant factors are: 1. a very late flow, far from the hives, but within range, so that the workers are over-extenened. This causes younger bees to forage, and "ages" the bees. 2. Pluged brood chamber prevents the raising of bees to replace forager "ageing". 3. Pluged brood chamber forces the bees to eat honey, and the stress on their gut from all the "misc" in the honey is an additional "aging" stress. >A subsequent poor wintering was blamed on that fact (lack of winter bees), >but I had personally sort of pooh-poohed the idea because September is a >little late for much brood rearing in Alberta . Yes, but the brood rearing must accompany, and make up for any flight activity that wears out the population. Normally there isn't much brood rearing in sept. but there isn't much activity either, so the right balance is achieved. >On the other hand, I *have* always claimed that even good hives can be too >heavy for good wintering and that there is an ideal weight range. I have >had trouble recruiting believers to that latter position however -- with >most commercials saying "Give 'em all they'll take". I certainly go with the "all they can take" theory, since it is too much to tailor the diet of each hive. However, in a comercial operation where each hive gets approximately the same volume of feed (uless they don't take it) the heavy ones are likely to be ones full of sugar _and_ honey. This may be a stress that decreases their wintering success. Well that's my two cents worth. pHIL ************************************** Phil Veldhuis veldhui@cc.umanitoba.ca Winnipeg Manitoba. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 Apr 1995 23:28:41 -0400 Reply-To: aa2363@freenet.lorain.oberlin.edu Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Kevin R. Palm" Subject: Thanks...and one more newbee question... Dear BEE-L'rs, Thanks for all the responses to my hiving in cold weather question. I got my package hived, finally. I almost had a disaster, though...This is my first hive and I removed the wrong cork from the queen cage. Guess who escaped??? Luckily, I had sprayed her accidently with sugar syrup and she couldn't fly very far!!! I got her put back in her cage and took the right cork out this time! It was a learning experience, but I'd just as soon not have such a potentially costly experience again any time soon!!! I have another question. In my panic, I forgot to poke a hole through the candy plug prior to placing the queen in the hive. I also faced the screen towards the comb instead of into the hive (I'm using drawn comb instead of foundation). Will the workers be able to feed her in this position, and will not put- ting a hole in the plug be a major problem?? A couple of people I've talked to said that I'll probably have to release her if she hasn't been freed in 3-4 days, but I'm worried that she may starve before they can release her. Any suggestions?? Sorry to be rambling, but this is my very first experi- ence with bees, and I want to do it right!! Thanks again for all the help!! ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 25 Apr 1995 01:46:19 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Gordon D. Hayes" Subject: Re: The Frugal Beekeeper >> >>A much more effective manner is to place crisco/sugar patties in the hive >>year round. But don't add any Terramycin. Something about the vegetable oil >>discourages the tracheal mite from taking up house. Mix one 3-lb can of vegetable shortening with one 5-lb bag granulated sugar. NOTE: Be sure to use only 100% pure vegetable shortening. And use granulated sugar, not powdered (confectioners) sugar. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 25 Apr 1995 01:46:24 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Gordon D. Hayes" Subject: Re: The Frugal Beekeeper >I wouldn't count on Crisco patties by themselves. As with any type of insect control (and that is what mites are), you are well advised to use more than one afront to the problem. BTW--The fact that mites and bees are both insects is one thing that makes mite control so difficult. >I then switched to Formic acid and every year since, my tracheal mite >problem is less severe. Formic acid is not an approved method of mite control in the U.S. As a matter of fact, if you use fomic acid in the treatment of mites; you stand the chance of having your honey banned from sale. Correct me if I am wrong. But according to a recent article in one of the Bee mags; they were studying how to safely use formic acid. gh gdhayes@evansville.net gordon.hayes@gccbbs.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 Apr 1995 23:31:11 EDT Reply-To: kdelapla@gis.lislab.uga.edu Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Keith Delaplane Subject: Re: Varroa documentation Comments: To: BEE-L%ALBNYVM1.BITNET@uga.cc.uga.edu Adrian, Varroa mites were first found in Georgia in 1989, and by 1991 they were generally dispersed in the southern third of the state. By 1993 they state-wide. Dr. Keith S. Delaplane Department of Entomology 200 Barrow Hall University of Georgia Athens, GA 30602 USA phone (706) 542-1765 fax (706) 542-3872 kdelapla@service.uga.edu ksd@uga.cc.uga.edu ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 25 Apr 1995 07:03:32 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Diana Sammataro Subject: Re: The Frugal Beekeeper In-Reply-To: <199504250548.BAA18973@postbox.acs.ohio-state.edu> from "Gordon D. Hayes" at Apr 25, 95 01:46:24 am Message 7/52 From Gordon D. Hayes Apr 25, 95 01:46:24 am >I wouldn't count on Crisco patties by themselves. As with any type of insect control (and that is what mites are), you are well advised to use more than one afront to the problem. BTW--The fact that mites and bees are both insects is one thing that makes mite control so difficult. Unfortunately, mites ARE NOT insects, they are in the order Acari which include ticks; spiders are a close relative. All have 8 legs. THere are acaricides that will kill only mites and not insects, but most are chemicals that contaminate the wax and honey too. Oil patties wouldn't. We found that fall requeening helped a lot in keeping mites down, and the oil patty, of course. Diana Sammataro ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 25 Apr 1995 07:59:52 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Diana Sammataro Subject: Re: Trachal mite documentation In-Reply-To: <199504212119.RAA12968@postbox.acs.ohio-state.edu> from "Adrian Wenner" at Apr 21, 95 02:16:52 pm To document tracheal mites, I would like to have reliable information sent to me on the impact of TMites in the continental US since they were first discovered. I have some information, but would like to hear from those who know where I can look up the dates, states etc. or send to me direct. Thank you in advance. Diana Sammataro Department of Entomology 1735 Neil Avenue, The Ohio State University Columbus, OH 43210 1220 Phone: 614 292 9089 Fax: 614 292 2180 Email: dsammata@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 25 Apr 1995 07:19:47 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Eric Abell Subject: Re: Hiving packages in cold weather? In-Reply-To: <9504241413.AA44261@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca> On Mon, 24 Apr 1995, Mick Youther wrote: > I have the same problem as Kevin. I live in southern Illinois but the weather > has turned pretty cool. My bees are at the Post Office and I will pick them > up this afternoon. It is supposed to get down to about 40 degrees Farenheit > tonight with possible showers. Is is also supposed to be cool this week. > 50's-60's during the day and in the 40's at night. Is it OK to hive the > package or what. These are my first bees...HELP! I have not installed packages for a number of years but for many years I used to scrape the snow off of the field to make a space for the hives. I would hesitate to shake the bees onto cold frames but after they are organized I don't believe a few nights of 40 degrees will harm them. They are better off in the hive than in your kitchen in most cases. By the way, I am in central Alberta - last night 1 degree of frost. Eric Abell email: eabell@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca Gibbons, AB, T0A 1N0 Canada (403) 998 3143 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 25 Apr 1995 07:31:04 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Eric Abell Subject: Re: Strange winter loss In-Reply-To: <9504242001.AA40504@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca> Eric Abell email: eabell@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca Gibbons, AB, T0A 1N0 Canada (403) 998 3143 On Mon, 24 Apr 1995, Allen Dick wrote: > However, we did have _one yard_ where we lost 15 out of 24 hives. This > particular yard produced very well last year and plugged up badly a couple > of times, including once in September when they had only one super (above > the double broods and excluder) during a very intense late flow. Almost every time I find a yard with these losses I find trach. mites upon examination. How about sampling the weak hives and letting us know. One difference, however, is that in most cases these are yards that were poor producers the previous year and did build up well. > > > On the other hand, I *have* always claimed that even good hives can be too > heavy for good wintering and that there is an ideal weight range. I have > had trouble recruiting believers to that latter position however -- with > most commercials saying "Give 'em all they'll take". > You may have something here. However.... my best yeards are all rather heavy But... my best hives are almost always light. Last weak I came upon several simply bursting with bees and brood but only a couple of days away from starvation. I suspect that this cold damp weather we are having this week may see a number of colonies starve before I can get to them. Eric Abell Gibbons, AB Canada (403) 998 3143 eabell@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 25 Apr 1995 07:44:25 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Eric Abell Subject: Re: The Frugal Beekeeper In-Reply-To: <9504250535.AA31311@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca> > > >I then switched to Formic acid and every year since, my tracheal mite > >problem is less severe. > > Formic acid is not an approved method of mite control in the U.S. As a > matter of fact, if you use fomic acid in the treatment of mites; you stand > the chance of having your honey banned from sale. Fortunatly, in my opinion, at this time Formic acid is available for use in Canada. How about the rest of the world - can you legally use it in your area? > Correct me if I am wrong. But according to a recent article in one of the > Bee mags; they were studying how to safely use formic acid. Good idea - Formic acid is an extremely dangerous product. Eric Abell email: eabell@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca Gibbons, AB, T0A 1N0 Canada (403) 998 3143 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 25 Apr 1995 10:22:29 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Subject: Re: Strange winter loss In-Reply-To: <9504251346.AA20904@cuugnet.cuug.ab.ca> On Tue, 25 Apr 1995, Eric Abell wrote: > Almost every time I find a yard with these losses I find trach. mites > upon examination. How about sampling the weak hives and letting us > know. I may well do that. > One difference, however, is that in most cases these are yards > that were poor producers the previous year and did build up well. > However.... my best yeards are all rather heavy > But... my best hives are almost always light. Last weak I came upon > several simply bursting with bees and brood but only a couple of days > away from starvation. I suspect that this cold damp weather we are > having this week may see a number of colonies starve before I can get to > them. We're out unwrapping and feeding as fast as we can go. See my other post today for more on that. There is much slower development here in Southern Alberta than last year. Wea re at least two weeks behind in bloom and brood rearing. W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper VE6CFK Rural Route One Swalwell Alberta Canada T0M 1Y0 Email: dicka@cuug.ab.ca or allend@internode.net Virtual Art Gallery: http://www.cuug.ab.ca:8001/~dicka __________________Why not drop by?____________________ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 25 Apr 1995 10:29:01 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Subject: Re: NHB Database In-Reply-To: On Tue, 25 Apr 1995, Ellen Larsen wrote: > I don't know hol to access the data base from a "URL". Can you help? > Thanks, Sure. And I'll reply to the list because this is a common question: Do you have access to the Worldwide web? If so, it will either be through a PPP hookup and a program like Netscape or Mosaic or by typing the word 'lynx' or maybe 'www' at the UNIX prompt on a shell account. You will find a prompt asking for a URL to open and you type in the URL exactly as shown below starting with 'http' and ending with "dicka'. You may have to add a '/' on the end for some brousers. Let me know how you make out. W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper VE6CFK Rural Route One Swalwell Alberta Canada T0M 1Y0 Email: dicka@cuug.ab.ca or allend@internode.net Virtual Art Gallery: http://www.cuug.ab.ca:8001/~dicka __________________Why not drop by?____________________ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 25 Apr 1995 10:40:54 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Subject: Rust, iron, syrup and toxicity? People ask me what good is the 'net anyhow? I tell them that almost any obscure question you could ever possibly have can be answered to some extent in minutes if you go to the right place -- often by the same people who do the research or those who are experts on a topic, either through study, or through practical experience or both. Here's one of those questions now (Helllpppp!): I read years ago that syrup kept in iron containers would become toxic to brood over time. My question: How sensitive to iron and its compounds are bees in their various stages? Our water system gives out rusty water somnetimes and this water may be the only water convenient for diluting syrup. Additionally barrels used for storing syrup tend to get rusty after a few years of intermittent use. Is there a danger of toxicity to bees from rust, or is it only elemental iron that is dangerous? Allen W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper VE6CFK Rural Route One Swalwell Alberta Canada T0M 1Y0 Email: dicka@cuug.ab.ca or allend@internode.net Virtual Art Gallery: http://www.cuug.ab.ca:8001/~dicka __________________Why not drop by?____________________ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 25 Apr 1995 11:15:58 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jerry J Bromenshenk Subject: Re: Rust, iron, syrup and toxicity? In-Reply-To: from "Allen Dick" at Apr 25, 95 10:40:54 am Hi: Okay, as to iron and rust. Bees don't use iron to transport oxygen like mammals, they use copper. So, they probably don't need lots of iron. Like any element, bees, mammals, people, have more or less fixed tolerance ranges. Within the tolerance range, the body can probably regulate the levels in tissues via a variety of mechanisms, such as excreting excessive amounts. Elements like iron generally have to be present at some minimal level for healthly bees, but too much is not necessarily better or good. Is rust harmful? If it is, lots of bees are exposed. You certainly are not the only beekeeper to use rusty pails, tanks, etc. Many years ago in central Europe, beekeepers trying to keep bees alive near aluminum smelters fed bees iron (often by simply using rusty buckets)to mitigate the lethal effects of too much fluoride. Did it work??? Who knows, the literature claims that it did, but I have never tested this notion. Obviously, since the beekeepers thought that the bees did better, it at least wasn't any worse than fluoride and may have been beneficial. Should one use rusty equipment? I'd say no, not because I have any evidence of any harm, but because I am against introducing high levels of any chemical into a food producing system. You don't know what it will do to the bees (the effects, if any, are likely to be suitable and hard to identify - although they could be economically costly), and you don't know how much might get into the honey (probably most likely if you are providing water on hot days in rusty containers). Unless you really dose them with iron, I doubt that you will see piles of dead bees. Fluoride rarely results in that scenario. However, low level toxic effects often sap the vigor of colonies, cause them to be slow growing, and more susceptible to other stressors. If the levels accumulate to high enough values in bees, you will get a pronounced mortality (but usually only in the context of additional stress such as marginal nutrition, mites, etc.). Jerry Bromenshenk The University of Montana jjbmail@selway.umt.edu ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 25 Apr 1995 04:29:45 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Moote, John M." This is mainly to Dr. Keith Delaplane as a thank you but also to any novice beekeepers. I saw your posting earlier and now that I know you're on the distribution list, I'd like to publicly thank you for producing your videotape on starting up and caring for bees. The video has been very instructive and I am having great luck in starting my first hive using your instruction. The tape was exceptionally well done and I would highly recommend it as a good resource for any beginning beekeepers. Perhaps you could post the information with the exact name and how to obtain a copy (I don't currently have the information at my fingertips). By the way, that pollen substitute does smell worse than it looks, and it looks awful! In response to some earlier postings, I was using binoculars to observe my hive, too, when I discovered I could get right next to the hive (to the side, 3 ft. away) without bothering the bees at all. I could sit for hours fascinated by what goes on at the hive door (my wife thinks I'm even stranger now than when I used to sit and watch the weather channel or sit and watch my garden grow). My two kids are also fascinated by the whole thing. The bees (Dadant Midnight queen with mostly Italian workers) seem to be getting a slow start here in Michigan, the brood appearing to be about a week behind the best case of 21 days to new bees after installation. My dad, who raised bees some twenty-five years ago, reminded me that they are wild animals and that they've done just fine for millions of years on their own. He told me to be patient and let them alone to do their thing. I've taken his advice and it seems to be working. Despite the cool and rainy weather, they are working when the temperature is above 54F, are bringing in lots of pollen and drinking down lots of sugar-water. I've even seen them out pollinating the apricot trees (which are just now in bloom), which is the real reason I got the bees in the first place. Well, good luck to all the beginners out there, and be patient. I'm sure the bees want to survive even more than you want them to and they probably will in spite of us!! John Moote Mootejm@BASF-Corp.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 25 Apr 1995 11:54:00 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Subject: Re: Rust, iron, syrup and toxicity? In-Reply-To: <9504251716.AA15368@cuugnet.cuug.ab.ca> On Tue, 25 Apr 1995, Jerry J Bromenshenk wrote: > Okay, as to iron and rust. Bees don't use iron to transport oxygen like > mammals, they use copper. So, they probably don't need lots of iron. > Like any element, bees, mammals, people, have more or less fixed tolerance > ranges. Within the tolerance range, the body can probably regulate the levels in tissues > via a variety of mechanisms, such as excreting excessive amounts. > Elements like iron generally have to be present at some minimal level for > healthly bees, but too much is not necessarily better or good. > > Is rust harmful? If it is, lots of bees are exposed. You certainly are > not the only beekeeper to use rusty pails, tanks, etc. Many years ago in > central Europe, beekeepers trying to keep bees alive near aluminum > smelters fed bees iron (often by simply using rusty buckets)to mitigate > the lethal effects of too much fluoride. Did it work??? Who knows, the > literature claims that it did, but I have never tested this notion. Thanks for the comments. They more or less confirm my own thoughts, but I am wanting to be sure that I am not poisoning the bees if the water is a little orange once and a while when my pump acts up. You mention fluoride. That is an other interesting topic, because we are looking at hooking up to a local municipal supply that has sufficiently high fluoride that drinking water for children has to be filtered for flurides to preven tooth discoloration. Would these levels have effects on bees? The water in syrup is only a small portion oif the total water used by the bees at most times of the year. I'd be interested in finding toxicity levels for various chemicals. I seem to remember a chart of mineral tolerances somewhere when I was researching mineral supplementation. A fellow in the north was recommending adding animal salts to the syrup to augment minerals for bees and I was playing with this a few years back. I decided I didn't know enough to reach any conclusions on the matter and discontinued for fear of poisoning the critters. Allen W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper VE6CFK Rural Route One Swalwell Alberta Canada T0M 1Y0 Email: dicka@cuug.ab.ca or allend@internode.net Virtual Art Gallery: http://www.cuug.ab.ca:8001/~dicka __________________Why not drop by?____________________ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 25 Apr 1995 14:02:17 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Prof Dan Lavoie Subject: Unsubscribing Please unsubscribe me from BEE-L list. Thank you! Dan Lavoie (dlavoie@hawk.anselm.edu) ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 25 Apr 1995 12:21:07 +0100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "M.Westby" Subject: Re: African bees On 21/4/95 Glenn McLeoad wrote: >I have kept a small number of colonies (up to 30) for the last 15 years and >am going to Zambia for 2 years next October. I would like to try my hand at >keeping Afrian bees and need some information. > >I have heard that there is "top bar hive" that has been used in Kenya. Does >any one have a reference to construction details? > >Any information or advice on keeping bees in Africa would be much appreciated. > >TIA Glenn > A very important source of information is the journal "Beekeeping & Development". The last issue (Dec 1994 #33) had v useful articles by Marty Hardison on queen rearing in top bar hives in New Mexico and on top bar basket hives in the Gambia by Ole Hertz. The Bees for Development booklist also lists several titles specifically on African Beekeeping. I mentioned this journal in a previous mailing but, for those that didn't see it, full information is available from the Editor, Dr Nicola Bradbear. Address: Bees For development, Troy, Monmouth, NP5 4AB United Kingdom. Her e-mail address is 100410.2631@compuserve.com. Fax +44 (0)1600 716167. Subscription rates are GBP16.00 or USD35.00. All income is used to provide information for beekeepers in developing countries. Cheers Max ||| (@ @) ---------------------------------------------ooOo-( )-oOoo----- Max Westby (Among other things a Sheffield Beekeeper) South Yorkshire Beekeepers Association BBKA apiary reg: JQ34 Phone (Home): +44 (0)114 236 1038 Fax: +44 (0)114 276 6515 e-mail: m.westby@sheffield.ac.uk World Wide Web Site: http://www2.shef.ac.uk/default.html --------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 25 Apr 1995 16:30:33 CDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Phil Wood Subject: How to Treat a Queen Royally In-Reply-To: <9504252120.AA14465 @psysparc.psyc.missouri.edu.psyc.missouri.edu>; from "M.Westby" at Apr 25, 95 12:21 pm As many of you probably are experiencing, we've had a short cold snap in the last few days. As timing would have it, this was just when my queens were about to be shipped (both of 'em- being a parent takes up of my time these days). My question to the group is "What did I do dumb?" When the queens arrived, I noticed that everything was dead except for one worker and happily the queens in both cages. I let them get adjusted to room temperature when I brought them in. I remembered from many years ago that package bees are to get a bit of sugar water, so I took a teaspoon out of some syrup I was mixing up for a split I made earlier this month, and put a drop on the wire surface. I was happy to see both the worker and the queen in both cages lapping it up. (The water was Culligan drinking water.) Imagine my surprise 15 minutes later when I returned to find the worker and the queen dead in both cages. Can anyone tell me how my $14.00 mistake happened? (Sorry for the elementary nature of the post.) Still a novice after all these years- Phil Wood wood@psysparc.psyc.missouri.edu ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 25 Apr 1995 18:24:22 +0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Rick Fell Subject: Re: Rust, iron,etc. and copper? Comments: To: Discussion of Bee Biology Jerry: Sorry to send this by way of the list but I tried to e-mail you directly and got my message returned. Basically my question related to you comment: > Bees don't use iron to transport oxygen like mammals, they use copper. Can you clarify - I trust you are not refering to respiratory pigments (given the tracheal system)? Thanks- Rick Richard Fell e-mail: rfell@vt.edu Department of Entomology, Virginia Tech Blacksburg, VA 24061 703-231-7207 Fax 703-231-9131 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 25 Apr 1995 17:44:23 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jerry J Bromenshenk Subject: Re: Rust, iron, syrup and toxicity? In-Reply-To: from "Allen Dick" at Apr 25, 95 11:54:00 am Hi again, The nature of your second question may have relevance to the list, so I will respond to the group. Further discussion may warrant going off the list. Fluoride is a hotly debated issue. Not all of my research colleagues agree with me on this one, but I stubbornly maintain that we do know what is happening. Fluoride is not good for bees. It accumulates and even concentrates in bees. There are many reports of fluoride toxicity to bees from the older U.S. and European literature. We have investigated several cases of severe bee poisoning and agree with these reports - fluoride is harmful to bees, at least when it accumulates to high levels. Now for the caveat. Fluoride poisoning does not occur in the same manner as poisoning from an organic insecticide. There is at least one paper published in the U.S. in the last few years that contends that we are all wrong and that fluoride is not a problem. I disagree and believe that the study was not conducted in a manner that could or would reveal fluoride poisoning. Here is a summary of what we have learned about fluoride and honey bees over the last 20 years. Beekeepers near aluminum smelters, oil refineries, phosphate plants, or in areas where the water is high in fluoride (either naturally, such as occurs in deep artesian wells in MT or fluoridated, as in city water supplies) will have elevated F in their bees. What is elevated? Well, on a dry weight basis, we find that bees can vary from <0.5 ppm of F to as high as 220 ppm of F. Levels of 5-15 ppm are fairly common over much of the northwest and in bees from Florida. Levels above 20 ppm suggest a source, and we classify any sample with concentrations of more than 40 ppm as elevated. Bees from urban areas often have F in the 20-40 ppm range. Rural bees generally are less than 20 ppm, unless the water contains F. Bees near refineries tend to range from 40-80 ppm. Phosphate plants often up the levels to more than 120 ppm. Aluminum smelters also contribute lots of F to bees. On an island between Canada and New York, with aluminum smelters on both sides, the F levels went over 200 ppm. Bees appear to get F from most of these industrial sources via emissions into the atmosphere (air borne, probably in a gaseous form). In these situations, the F levels will be about 2xs higher in forager bees than in nurse bees. You may not be able to detect elevated levels of F in the larvae or pupae. Mark Dewart, UM, did his thesis on F. He found that F levels in bees near an aluminum smelter in western MT were highest in forager bees, orders of magnitude higher than levels in forage plants, and much higher than F levels in water from that region. Most importantly, using regresson techniques, he found that bees reflected F levels in the air much better than F levels in water or plants. Other studies have not been able to show this, but those studies used 3 apiaries and one air monitoring station. Mark used 11 apiaries and lines of format plates to quantify air levels throughout the bees forage range. This gave us a much better picture of regional gradients of exposure to F and much more powerful statistics. Also, the smelter put on additional abatement equipment and curtailed (down-sized) their operations over a 10 yr period. The amount of F released to the air decreased as did the residue levels in bees. We have a paper under review at this time that reports on F from multiple sources in Idaho. Both this paper, and one that we published in the Feb. 5, 1985 issue of SCIENCE provide isopol maps of F dispersion over landscape size areas. The bottom line is that we can often follow F dispersion for 60 to 90 miles from a large industrial source. Years ago (in the 70s), we published a series of reports on F in bees in eastern MT before and after a group of coal-burning power plants went on line. These power plants used sophisticated scrubbers and low sulfur coal. The levels in F prior to the power plants going on line averaged about 8 ppm. Within a year of the power plant startup, the F levels in bees within 20-30 miles in the downwind directions from the power plants average 20-30 ppm. Now, I don't think this was enought to cause any problems to the bees, but three points need to be made: 1) The beeyards displaying elevated F were along the same transects as the plume path (from the 500+ ft smokestacks) as followed by helicopter sampling of the plume and by a form of radar tracking, 2) The beeyards showed elevated F at 3 times farther from the power plants than did could any instrument, 3) The smokestacks were reported to only emit 7 pounds of F per day. That is not much, considering that we once studies a copper smelter emitting 1/2 - 1 ton of arsenic per day. These power plants consume coal at such a fast rate that the unit train bringing the coal to the plant never stops moving, it just continuously dumps coal from the cars into the hoppers of the furnaces. The paper that says F doesn't harm bees used a few colonies of bees at 3 locations and monitored them for a few months. They saw F at levels exceeding 180 ppm and didn't get piles of dead bees. Our observations of kills from F indicate that it is about like looking at mite damage. Sometimes you have high mite levels and little impact, other times even low infestations seem to destroy the colonies or at least severely set them back. Our observations of F toxicity come from two sources: 1) Commercial beekeepers running several thousand colonies over more than 100-200 yards for more than 10 years 2) Migratory beekeepers moving bees in and out of smelter regions. Ok, as far as the commercial people go, they have records indicating that: 1) Bee kills occur every few years. These kills generally occur in the spring during spring buildup or during periods of nectar dearth. 2) The bees always die at the same yards, usually downwind from the industrial source. There is almost always a gradient, with bees at yards closest to the source getting hit the hardest. 3) Residue levels in these dead bees normally exceed 120 ppm. With respect to the migratory people, they report losses when moving into an industrial area after coming out of stressful conditions such as orchard pollination. The bees looked ok or good before being moved, then dropped rapidly after been set down in the industrial region. Again, F levels in forager bees exceeded 120 ppm. Finally, in the early 70s, while study the power plants, we found that bees at one yard had 80-150 ppm of F, yet were far from the power plants, in the upwind direction, in a rural setting. We found that the source was water from an artesian spring. The spring fed a cattle watering tank and overflowed onto the ground. Water in the well ranged from 1-3 ppm of F, that in the water tank somewhat higher, that in the muddy puddles where the bees were gathering water on hot days exceeded 11 ppm (in the water). This pattern was consistent over several years. Finally, we asked the commercial beekeepers, who had several hundred beeyards, how that particular yard performed. The yard was near a river, the land was irrigated, and the floral resouces excellent. George paused, then launched into a history of that yard, which he thought suffered from being too close to his house. In other words, some years he left it until last (always thinking he could drop off a few supers on the way home). Other years, he grafted queens at that yard, because it was convenient. Bottom line, every year the yard did poorly in terms of colony vigor and productivity, but George figured he was the cause. I suggested he move the bees to the other side of the river (since the bees wouldn't cross a large river to get to the artesian well). George moved the bees, but only about 1/10 mile and on the same side of the river. He figured that the bees would use river water rather than fly the extra distance to the well. Apparently some of these colonies had a long memory. The next summer, some of his colonies in that yard had high F, some intermediate, and some low. We observed marked bees at the well coming from his beeyard on the river. That year, colony performance was spotty, but the yard did better overall. The next year, George put the bees on the opposite side of the river. His colony vigor increased and he doubled his yard average in terms of honey produced. Oh yes, no more elevated F in the bees. So, I leave it to you to draw your own conclusions. Can you have bees with 180-200 ppm F and no obvious toxicity - I say yes, if the bees are in otherwise good condition and are not being too heavily stressed by other factors such as overwintering, poor nutrition, mites, etc. Can one adequately test for F toxicity over short periods of times using only a few colonies, I say no, the chronic effects may take a long time to be evidenced or may only appear when the colonies are heavily stressed by other factors. Would I put bees where either the water or air had elevated F? NO! Do I think beekeepers suffer losses from F? YES! And most importantly, the losses may be hidden (i.e., poor vigor, reduced disease resistance, lowered productivity). If you want to gamble, expose your bees to F, you might get away with it. If every so often, your bees die or just don't do well, I won't be surprised. Jerry J. Bromenshenk The University of Montana Missoula, MT 59812-1002 jjbmail@selway.umt.edu ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 25 Apr 1995 17:06:15 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Philippe Audibert Subject: Rape Flower Honey?? Hi, I am from France but I live in the US for more tyhan 4 years. I have a hard time to find Rape flower honey. Do you have any ideas where this wonderfull honey can be found??? Thanks for your help Philippe ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 25 Apr 1995 22:53:17 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: P Kneeland <0002hcs@INFORMNS.K12.MN.US> Subject: Terramycin Hi, Does anybody have a formula for administering terramycin? I have used the method shared by some local beekeepers where they sprinkle the antibiotic over the frame tops in a powder form. I'm not convinced that the bees are obtaining the full benifit, but I'm still a _newbee_ so I'd appreciate any hints.TIA, PTK ...spring has finally arrived in northern MN... the frogs are singing! ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Apr 1995 02:29:00 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Crawfords Electronics <0006173164@MCIMAIL.COM> Subject: Re: Rust, iron,etc. and copper? Last week I was working in the garden. There were several trays of seedlings that have been planted in commercial potting soil - the mixture had a very small amount of fertilizer. The plastic seedling containers sat in 1/4" of water. As I approach the area it was obvious that a drinking station had been setup. There were several hundreds of bees sitting on the moist dirt, I assume drawing water. The 12 hives that were using the dirt water, sit 10' to 20' from a year around creek. Why did they choose the dirty, fertilized water? Minerals? David Crawford Pinole, Ca 6173164@mcimail.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Apr 1995 02:29:00 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Crawfords Electronics <0006173164@MCIMAIL.COM> Subject: Re: Senator Coats jab at us > > The US government has plunked billions into NASA over many decades. I > recognize that this research was principally fueled by political and > military considerations but, today we enjoy an enormous array of consumer > goods whose origins came from publicly funded research (ps. lets not > forget the Internet we are using right now, and the chips inside the very > computers we use right now!). > > In the agricultural field, we can use the celebrated example of canola. > The primary world producers of rapeseed were Poland and India. Then, in > the seventies, Agriculture Canada unveiled this marvelous new crop called > Canola after years of breeding. These studies were publicly funded and > as such, Canadian farmers had ready access to this crop. Today, Canada > is the largest canola seed and oil producer in the world, which has > become a billion dollar industry. I question whether farmers > collectively (and the numerous small prairie communities they live in) > would have benefited equally when Canola would have been introduced > initially by a multinational. > > In today's environment of government cutbacks, reductions in > publicly-funded research is inevitable and also needed. The process will > hopefully identify research priorities, but I for one believe public > -funded research has its place and future. > > P. van Westendorp pvanwesten@galaxy.gov.bc.ca > Provincial Apiculturist I truley love moments like this - when truth gets in the way of opinion. Here I sit with my conservative out look on government, prattling on about how I don't want my tax dollars to be spent on areas that should be left to the private sector. And then I hear myself reviewing the statement made by someone last week about: ~when the current miticide is no longer is effective and there isn't enough money to be made to recoupe the R&D of the next generation, what justifies going any further. So who takes the responsibility to serve the public good when there is no first generation $ to be made? The implicit is that my tax dollars should be spent here. But who has the wisdom. David Crawford Pinole, Ca. 6173164@mcimail.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Apr 1995 08:42:42 GMT Reply-To: Gordon@apis.demon.co.uk Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Gordon L. Scott" Subject: Fertiliser for bees? David Crawford wrote: > There were several hundreds of bees sitting on the moist dirt, I > assume drawing water. The 12 hives that were using the dirt > water, sit 10' to 20' from a year around creek. Why did they > choose the dirty, fertilized water? Minerals? Hi, you may get a more complete answer later. Bees don't seem to much like fresh or running water. Their own personal safety seems likely to be a major reason, if they have to use moving or deep water they risk drowning. I think that wet earth is usually their favourite place. In my garden pond they use the boggy margins every time. I guess that they are likely to pick up minerals from dirty water -- I doubt that they want the fertiliser itself :-) Regards, -- Gordon Scott Gordon@apis.demon.co.uk Compuserve 100332,3310 Gordon@multitone.co.uk Basingstoke Beekeeper Beekeeper@apis.demon.co.uk ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Apr 1995 07:31:48 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Jeffrey P. Murray" Subject: Re: Terramycin In-Reply-To: <199504260344.XAA01408@anvil.gatech.edu> (message from P Kneeland on Tue, 25 Apr 1995 22:53:17 -0500) >Hi, >Does anybody have a formula for administering terramycin? I have used the >method shared by some local beekeepers where they sprinkle the antibiotic >over the frame tops in a powder form. I'm not convinced that the bees are >obtaining the full benifit, but I'm still a _newbee_ so I'd appreciate any >hints.TIA, PTK > > ...spring has finally arrived in northern MN... the frogs are singing! > The standard I've most seen is to treat each hive with the equivalent of 4mg of medicine either two or three times in about a three week period. If you get the standard 6.7oz bag of Terramycin from Pfizer, this amount (4mg) is found in a level teaspoonful. Mix this well with three TABLESPOONS of confectioner's (powdered) sugar, and sprinkle over the tops of the outermost frames. The latter is to prevent the terramycin (which is toxic to brood) from trickling down into the central brood-rearing area. For the 6.7oz bag of Terramycin, you get about 50 doses at the recommended level, so for three treatments per hive, you should be able to fully treat about 16 to 17 hives. Hope this helps. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Apr 1995 09:59:27 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Malcolm (Tom) Sanford, Florida Extension Apiculturist" Subject: German Queen marking kit? I have a request for the address of the German queen marking kit. Can't find it in my files. Can somebody provide that address to me. Please respond directly to me so as not to clutter the list. Thanks. Tom Sanford +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Malcolm (Tom) Sanford Extension Apiculturist University of Florida Mailing Address: Bldg 970, Hull Rd., Gainesville, FL 32611-0620 Voice phone 904/392-1801, Ext. 143 FAX 904/392-0190 INTERNET:MTS@GNV.IFAS.UFL.EDU; BITNET:MTS@IFASGNV; FREENET:AFN01860@ FREENET.UFL.EDU ==================================================================== Publisher of APIS -- http://gnv.ifas.ufl.edu/~entweb/apis/apis.htm Instructor of Principles of Entomology, ENY 3005-- http://gnv.ifas.ufl.edu/~mts/eny3005/eny3005syl.htm +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Apr 1995 07:58:21 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Eric Abell Subject: Re: Strange winter loss In-Reply-To: <9504251613.AA43105@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca> On Tue, 25 Apr 1995, Allen Dick wrote: > On Tue, 25 Apr 1995, Eric Abell wrote: > > > Almost every time I find a yard with these losses I find trach. mites > > upon examination. How about sampling the weak hives and letting us > > know. > > I may well do that. > > > One difference, however, is that in most cases these are yards > > that were poor producers the previous year and did build up well. > > > However.... my best yeards are all rather heavy > > But... my best hives are almost always light. Last weak I came upon > > several simply bursting with bees and brood but only a couple of days > > away from starvation. I suspect that this cold damp weather we are > > having this week may see a number of colonies starve before I can get to > > them. > > We're out unwrapping and feeding as fast as we can go. See my other post > today for more on that. I am not in that great a hurry to unwrap as most of the hives appear to have lots of feed and it is still cold some nites. Last night went to -10 deg. C. I am not planning on feeding at this time but here is an idea I would like you and others to react to. Since most colonies have ample honey the purpose of feeding would be for stimulation. In most every yard (to be honest - in EVERY yard) I have dead colonies. After unwrapping I stack these brood chambers with room for the bees to get at them. The bees have a place to forage, I don't have to rush back with feed and I have less old honey to deal with. I always have enough for brood chambers for splits anyway. I know - there will be some relpies about robbing and spreading disease and I welcome these. (the comments, not the disease) However: - the bees have already had access to these dead colonies - after unwrapping there is a lot of drifting anyway - I don't mind drifting and I consider the yard a single unit anyway - one colony infected = all colonies infected with whatever. - I have never experienced a 'robbing frenzy' as a result of this. - As to spreading diseases --- I don't have any diseases or parasites to spread! ( But I have a bridge to sell you) :) Comments? > > There is much slower development here in Southern Alberta than last > year. Wea re at least two weeks behind in bloom and brood rearing. > It looks like the willows are yielding a little nectar right now - and of course, gobs and gobs of pollen. Eric Abell email: eabell@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca Gibbons, AB, T0A 1N0 Canada (403) 998 3143 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Apr 1995 08:05:26 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Eric Abell Subject: Re: How to Treat a Queen Royally In-Reply-To: <9504252116.AA40157@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca> On Tue, 25 Apr 1995, Phil Wood wrote: > As many of you probably are experiencing, we've had a short cold snap in > the last few days. As timing would have it, this was just when my queens > were about to be shipped (both of 'em- being a parent takes up of my > time these days). > > My question to the group is "What did I do dumb?" When the queens > arrived, I noticed that everything was dead except for one > worker and happily the queens in both cages. I let them get adjusted to > room temperature when I brought them in. I remembered from many > years ago that package bees are to get a bit of sugar water, so I took a > teaspoon out of some syrup I was mixing up for a split I made earlier > this month, and put a drop on the wire surface. I was happy to see both > the worker and the queen in both cages lapping it up. > (The water was Culligan drinking water.) > > Imagine my surprise 15 minutes later when I returned to find the worker > and the queen dead in both cages. > > Can anyone tell me how my $14.00 mistake happened? > (Sorry for the elementary nature of the post.) > > Still a novice after all these years- Phil Wood > wood@psysparc.psyc.missouri.edu > I think it is time to pick up the phone and ask your supplier to either replace or refund. I don't think you did anything wrong. Eric Abell email: eabell@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca Gibbons, AB, T0A 1N0 Canada (403) 998 3143 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Apr 1995 08:13:34 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Eric Abell Subject: Re: Rape Flower Honey?? In-Reply-To: <9504252355.AA10501@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca> On Tue, 25 Apr 1995, Philippe Audibert wrote: > Hi, > > I am from France but I live in the US for more tyhan 4 years. > I have a hard time to find Rape flower honey. > Do you have any ideas where this wonderfull honey can be found??? > > Thanks for your help Philippe > Canada produces a lot of 'rape' flower honey but on the label it may be identified as 'Canola'. Eric Abell email: eabell@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca Gibbons, AB, T0A 1N0 Canada (403) 998 3143 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Apr 1995 08:16:05 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Eric Abell Subject: Re: Terramycin In-Reply-To: <9504260331.AA31986@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca> On Tue, 25 Apr 1995, P Kneeland wrote: > Hi, > Does anybody have a formula for administering terramycin? I have used the > method shared by some local beekeepers where they sprinkle the antibiotic > over the frame tops in a powder form. I'm not convinced that the bees are > obtaining the full benifit, but I'm still a _newbee_ so I'd appreciate any > hints.TIA, PTK > > ...spring has finally arrived in northern MN... the frogs are singing! > I mix TM and icing sugar in a 1:5 ration and place about 2 tblespoons of this mixure on the front of the top bars and we have not had foulbrood for years while formerly we saw the problem often. I believe it works in this mixture. Eric Abell email: eabell@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca Gibbons, AB, T0A 1N0 Canada (403) 998 3143 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Apr 1995 11:31:11 GMT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: MEMO 1995/04/26 11:31:09 From: Mihaly Ligmond To: PCCSSW.MAILER SSW[PCCSSW.MAILER] From: Mihaly Ligmond@SEA.LAB@FDAORAPAR Subject: Date: Wednesday, April 26, 1995 at 11:31:09 am EDT Attach: Certify: N ---------------------------- [Message Follows] --------------------------------- Does anyone know if there are any flowers or other nectar sources that produce a toxic honey and if so what are the toxins. Also an off the wall question : Can a queen bee sting while laying an egg or are the functions mutually exclusive? Thankx Mihaly (mligmond@fdaem.ssw.dhhs.gov) ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Apr 1995 10:48:21 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "La Reine de la Cite' des Phoques (Liz Day)" Subject: a better way to draw Bombus w. camera lucida Comments: To: bombus@csi.uottawa.ca The idea below came to me after days of tedious fussing. A big problem with drawing bumblebees using a drawing tube or camera lucida is that it's hard to adjust the two light levels so that you can see both the specimen and the drawing well. The trouble is that bumblebees are both 3-D and BLACK. Looking at one through a scope without enough light is like looking into a black handbag - you can't see a thing. But then all that light on the specimen makes your drawing invisible. And the white paper for the drawing reflects too much light back into your eyes, making the specimen hard to see. So I tried using pencil on paper. It works! You can still see the bee very clearly while you draw, and the lines of the drawing almost glow. There is a pencil called COL-ERASE which can be erased. Berol VERYTHIN pastel pencil also will work. I used both black illustration board and black cover stock. Obviously, white-on-black art isn't good for publication, but I then retraced it onto Mylar and it looks great. For all the hassle I saved on the first sketch, it was worth it even with having to retrace. Has anyone else ever tried this, or think it's a good idea, or have a better idea? Liz Day presently in New York City, USA receiving mail at lday@indy.net (that's Lday, not ONEday) ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Apr 1995 09:16:00 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Paul van Westendorp 576-5600 Fax: 576-5652" Subject: Re: Strange winter loss Allen, In response to your speculative e-mail, I do remember the instance where an unusual late flow in September in one year, was followed by a poor wintering year. You are quite correct that for most parts in Alberta, significant brood rearing would have ceased by the end of September. But I think the question was not so much about the age of the bees going through winter, but their physiological condition. It seemed that many of the bees were just too tired and worn-out by the time winter came in earnest. Many just didn't have enough stamina left until the next srping season. When you go back in provincial records, similar trends occured where significant late season flows were often followed by poor wintering. In regards to you testing for mites, Allen, I suggest you do. I often wonder about what is going to happen in Alberta over the next few years. The substantial traffic of colonies from BC (with its high incidence of Varroa in some southern areas) to Alberta every year, garantees a healthy and thriving population of mites in Alberta. Yet, it is my understanding that only a comparative few actually monitor regularly ie. through Apistan strip/ sticky board testing. Without this testing, a lot of producers are setting themselves up for a possible crash. Best of luck, Paul van Westendorp pvanwesten@galaxy.gov.bc.ca Provincial Apiarist British Columbia ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Apr 1995 10:56:16 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Subject: Re: Strange winter loss In-Reply-To: <9504261412.AA23500@cuugnet.cuug.ab.ca> On Wed, 26 Apr 1995, Eric Abell wrote: > I am not in that great a hurry to unwrap as most of the hives appear to > have lots of feed and it is still cold some nites. Last night went to -10 > deg. C. I am not planning on feeding at this time but here is an idea I > would like you and others to react to. > > Since most colonies have ample honey the purpose of feeding would be for > stimulation. In most every yard (to be honest - in EVERY yard) I have > dead colonies. After unwrapping I stack these brood chambers with room > for the bees to get at them. The bees have a place to forage, I don't > have to rush back with feed and I have less old honey to deal with. I > always have enough for brood chambers for splits anyway. > I don't feed for stimulation especially, I want my brood chambers full of good winter feed early in the season, so that the honey goes into the supers not the BC's. Two birds with one stone. I use 66% syrup and give them all they want. My BC's are pretty well robbed out by the time I unwrap. Bees build up better unwrapped as soon as the coldest nights are warmer than minus ten (C), and you can work on them better. We split starting May 1. If you wait longer, they have dwindled from overpopulation and lack of sources, and splitting gets tough. Unwrapping early keeps them on the brood, instead of in the neioghbours' bins and yards, and conserves their lifespan. Allen W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper VE6CFK Rural Route One Swalwell Alberta Canada T0M 1Y0 Email: dicka@cuug.ab.ca or allend@internode.net Virtual Art Gallery: http://www.cuug.ab.ca:8001/~dicka __________________Why not drop by?____________________ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Apr 1995 12:47:06 +0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Rick Fell Subject: Re: Toxic honey Comments: To: Discussion of Bee Biology There are a number of plants which produce nectars with toxic components. A good review of this topic can be found in Barker, Poisoning by Plants in "Honey Bee Pests, Predators, and Diseases", 2nd edition, edited by R. Morse and R. Nowogrodzki. Some of the better know examples include the Rhododendrons (esp R. ponticum and R. luteum), Gelsemium sempervirens (yellow jessamine), and Kalmia latifolia (mountain laurel). We analyzed a honey produced in southwest Virginia a couple years ago and found levels of grayanotoxins I and III higher enough to make a person extremely ill (which it had done). The presumed source was thought to be Kalmia. >To: PCCSSW.MAILER SSW[PCCSSW.MAILER] >From: Mihaly Ligmond@SEA.LAB@FDAORAPAR >Subject: >Date: Wednesday, April 26, 1995 at 11:31:09 am EDT >Attach: >Certify: N > >---------------------------- [Message Follows] --------------------------------- > >Does anyone know if there are any flowers or other nectar sources that >produce a toxic honey and if so what are the toxins. Also an off the wall >question : Can a queen bee sting while laying an egg or are the functions >mutually exclusive? Thankx Mihaly (mligmond@fdaem.ssw.dhhs.gov) > Richard Fell e-mail: rfell@vt.edu Department of Entomology, Virginia Tech Blacksburg, VA 24061 703-231-7207 Fax 703-231-9131 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Apr 1995 12:53:01 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Philippe Audibert Subject: Re: Rape Flower Honey?? Thank you very much, but do you think that I can order this Canola Honey in canada?? do you have any producer that you know?? Thanks for your help. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Apr 1995 14:59:00 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Mike Quimby Subject: tylosin for control of foulbrood Greetings beekeepers of the world! A co-worker (who is also my mentor when it comes to bees) just approached me to pose a question to the internet. Does anyone know of, heard of, have experience with, etc. of using tylosin for control of american, or european foulbroods? Maybe even nosema? He remembers talking with someone about it several years ago, but he can't remember now. So if anyone has information on this, send it to me. I am going to get him an email address so he can take part in bee-l in the future. Thanks for your time and efforts!! Mike Quimby m.quimby@lilly.com P.S. My brand-new hives are doing well. I sat and watched them bringing in the pollen yesterday....very relaxing! From: QUIMBY MICHAEL E (MCVAX0::RK81239) To: VMS MAIL ADDRESSEE (IN::"BEE-L@UACSC2.albany.edu") QUIMBY MICHAEL E (MCVAX0::RK81239) ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Apr 1995 22:13:19 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Keith Murray Subject: Re: Rape Flower Honey?? In-Reply-To: <199504260008.AA05456@access.mbnet.mb.ca> On Tue, 25 Apr 1995, Philippe Audibert wrote: > Hi, > > I am from France but I live in the US for more tyhan 4 years. > I have a hard time to find Rape flower honey. > Do you have any ideas where this wonderfull honey can be found??? > > Thanks for your help Philippe > Philippe... There is a lot of Canola honey in the western Canada region. It is often blended with other honey by larger producers. You need to locate a smaller producer who is not tied into a co-op. We have five hives going this year, but ours is all wildflower. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Keith Murray * Don't worry about people stealing St.Mary's Academy * an idea. If it's original, you 550 Wellington cres. * will have to ram it down their Winnipeg, Manitoba * throats. -H. Aiken ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 27 Apr 1995 09:36:33 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: PHILIP EARLE Subject: Re: German Queen marking kit? Hi.. In the UK Thornes Ltd, Wragby,Lincoln,LN3 5LA. (FAX 01673 857004) sell a marking kit composed of numbered (1-99) circular colored (5 colors) plastic discs. It maybe Swiss or German origin ? Price is 17.06 UK pounds hope this is of use, Phil Earle bcg0311@v2.qub.ac.uk ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 27 Apr 1995 09:54:11 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: PHILIP EARLE Subject: Re: tylosin for control of foulbrood hi, Its more than likely that tylosin will restrict or kill the vegitative stage of AFB but why use something which is twice if not more expensive than Tetracycline (Terramycin). I beleive that Tetracycline is the only legal product that you can use in USA. Furthermore, the dosage may not be well documented, and the effect of tylosin on the brood should be checked out! Perhaps Brenda Ball could tell us a lot more ? Phil Earle bcg0311@v2.qub.ac.uk ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 27 Apr 1995 07:33:48 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Jeffrey P. Murray" Subject: Re: Terramycin In-Reply-To: <199504261131.HAA28490@acmey.gatech.edu> (jm67@prism.gatech.edu) > The standard I've most seen is to treat each hive with the >equivalent of 4mg of medicine either two or three times in about a >three week period. If you get the standard 6.7oz bag of Terramycin >from Pfizer, this amount (4mg) is found in a level teaspoonful. Mix >this well with three TABLESPOONS of confectioner's (powdered) sugar, >and sprinkle over the tops of the outermost frames. The latter is to >prevent the terramycin (which is toxic to brood) from trickling down >into the central brood-rearing area. > > For the 6.7oz bag of Terramycin, you get about 50 doses at the >recommended level, so for three treatments per hive, you should be >able to fully treat about 16 to 17 hives. > > Hope this helps. > Well, I was off by a factor of 50. In the above, the amount of Terramycin to add (1 teaspoon per 3 Tablespoons of powdered sugar) IS CORRECT for one treatment, but the dosage of "pure" terramycin in that teaspoonful is 200mg, not 4mg. You should still treat 2 to 3 times in a 3 week period, and a 6.7oz bag of Terramycin will still fully treat 16 to 17 colonies, as stated before. I just got the dosage figure wrong. Jeef ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Jeffrey P. Murray Georgia Institute of Technology GTRI/ELSYS Georgia Tech Research Institute ----------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 27 Apr 1995 08:27:34 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Logan Vanleigh > >In response to some earlier postings, I was using binoculars to observe my >hive, too, when I discovered I could get right next to the hive (to the >side, 3 ft. away) without bothering the bees at all. I could sit for hours >fascinated by what goes on at the hive door (my wife thinks I'm even >stranger now than when I used to sit and watch the weather channel or sit >and watch my garden grow). My two kids are also fascinated by the whole >thing. > My daughter and I would do the same w/ a hive of unpedigreed bees (Italians, mainly) in San Antonio a few years ago. I'd be real careful of that now in that part of the US (AHB and all). The hardest thing to teach her was that you can't pet bees quite the same way we did our dog. I'm getting back into beekeeping now (whenever Blue Ridge gets around to shipping) and look forward to enjoying their company. Logan ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 27 Apr 1995 08:31:00 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ray Lackey Subject: Re: Rape Flower Honey?? ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ + Raymond J. Lackey + + Beekeeper 10 years with 25 colonies on Long Island, NY+ + INTERNET: rjl7317@hazeltine.com + + Mail: 1260 Walnut Avenue, Bohemia NY 11617 + + Home Phone: 516-567-1936 FAX: 516-262-8053 + ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ supposedly Charles Mraz's creamed honey, for which he is famous in US is Rape honey imported from Canada. I don't have an address for him. He is located in the Northeast, possibly Maine. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 27 Apr 1995 09:02:28 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "James E. Hoyt" Subject: Re: your mail In-Reply-To: <199504261544.LAA18004@truelies.rs.itd.umich.edu> I seen to recall hearing about two plant spp. that produce a toxic honey. The only one I can recall however is Mountain Laurel (Kalmia latifolia). On Wed, 26 Apr 1995, Mihaly Ligmond wrote: > > Does anyone know if there are any flowers or other nectar sources that > produce a toxic honey and if so what are the toxins. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 27 Apr 1995 07:23:46 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Eric Abell Subject: Re: Strange winter loss In-Reply-To: <9504261748.AA58845@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca> Allen, > > We split starting May 1. If you wait longer, they have dwindled from > overpopulation and lack of sources, and splitting gets tough. I have never been entirely happy with my splits. How about sharing your method with us? > Eric Abell email: eabell@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca Gibbons, AB, T0A 1N0 Canada (403) 998 3143 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 27 Apr 1995 06:00:00 GMT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Andy Nachbaur Organization: Wild Bee's BBS Subject: Queen Bee's sting> ML<>To: PCCSSW.MAILER SSW[PCCSSW.MAILER] <>From: Mihaly Ligmond@SEA.LAB@FDAORAPAR <>Date: Wednesday, April 26, 1995 at 11:31:09 am EDT ML<>Does anyone know if there are any flowers or other nectar sources that <>produce a toxic honey and if so what are the toxins. Also an off the wall <>question : Can a queen bee sting while laying an egg or are the functions <>mutually exclusive? Thankx Mihaly (mligmond@fdaem.ssw.dhhs.gov) Hello Beeman Mihaly! I'll take a stab at the off the wall questions... I will pass on the first question, but know of no reports of toxic honey that affected people the last 40 years in my part of the world. As for laying queen's stinging. I suspect they can not do it at the same time as laying a egg but anyone's guess is as good as mine on that. It is rare for a queen to sting anything but another queen, but they can be induced to sting a human. I have been stung more then once, and by accident discovered a sure way to get them to sting. One nice afternoon late in the queen season here I was helping a friend catch the last run of queens. We were doing better then planned and ran out of cages, so he went for a new supply leaving me to twiddle my thumbs. I was enjoying the good catch so I continued to work, putting the extra queens in my mouth, what the heck I am only a beekeeper, why not? Anyway after I got 5 or 6 held gently in my oral cavity they decided to fight it out or fight their way out, must be the Red Man or something, but they gave me a few good shots with the old stinger, but I managed to hold my ground and did not spit any out or swallow any, and they were not harmed as I used them that afternoon. I did repeat the experiment in the interest of BS (bee science) to see if other young gueens would sting me, and they did. Other then that I have been stung only once or twice by queens catching and caging them for shipment. ttul Andy- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 27 Apr 1995 07:47:58 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Eric Abell Subject: Where are you? In the last few months since I have been reading this list I have been amazed and impressed by wealth of information and ideas that have been shared. I have also been amazed by the number of countries represented. So..... Where are you from. It would be most interesting to collect a list of countries represented. How about sending me a message with your country identified and I will compile such a list? Since much of the participation appears to be from Canada and the US, how about giving me your state or province as well. Eric Abell email: eabell@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca Gibbons, AB, T0A 1N0 Canada (403) 998 3143 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 27 Apr 1995 10:08:25 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Paul Madden Subject: Re: Where are you? In-Reply-To: <199504271405.KAA01811@poe.acc.Virginia.EDU>; from "Eric Abell" at Apr 27, 95 7:47 am According to Eric Abell: > > In the last few months since I have been reading this list I have been > amazed and impressed by wealth of information and ideas that have been > shared. I have also been amazed by the number of countries represented. > > So..... Where are you from. It would be most interesting to collect a > list of countries represented. How about sending me a message with your > country identified and I will compile such a list? > > Since much of the participation appears to be from Canada and the US, how > about giving me your state or province as well. > > Eric Abell email: eabell@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca > Gibbons, AB, T0A 1N0 > Canada > (403) 998 3143 > Central Virginia, Charlottesville area -- Paul Madden pm6f@virginia.edu http://poe.acc.virginia.edu/~pm6f ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 27 Apr 1995 10:23:54 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Kelley Rosenlund 904-392-5551 Subject: Business stufff... Well I got the bug;). As many of you know I got my first hive last month & I now want to see about doing it on the side. I have arranged to spend time with a beekeeper to learn the trade secrets. He has agreed to sell me as many hives as I want (he has 650). I am mainly interested in renting my hives for pollination as I do not have the equipment yet for extracting/processing etc. I am trying to get some commitments from farmers for hives for next season. I have a lot of questions, bear with me. Remember I live in north Florida when you ponder my questions. 1.How many hives can one manage evenings & Saturdays? 2.What problems have you encountered renting hives that I need to know about? 3.My bee mentor says he never has signed a contract with farmers. I think that is asking for trouble. Do you? If so what contract do you have? 4. Have you had a lot of bee kills from pesticides or vandalism? 5. How about liability if someone gets stung in the field? 6. I was thinking of having a trial year with say 30 hives but I understand most farmers need well over 50 for their fields. Should I take the plunge & buy over 50 or try to find someone that could use 30? 7. When do you get payed, before the crop, after or 50/50? 8. How do you handle the...IRS? Thanks for your help. Kelley rosenlk@freenet.ufl.edu ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 27 Apr 1995 11:45:11 -0300 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Harvey Hyde Subject: Re: Where are you? In-Reply-To: <199504271405.LAA02676@bud.cycor.ca> On Thu, 27 Apr 1995, Eric Abell wrote: > In the last few months since I have been reading this list I have been > amazed and impressed by wealth of information and ideas that have been > shared. I have also been amazed by the number of countries represented. > > So..... Where are you from. It would be most interesting to collect a > list of countries represented. How about sending me a message with your > country identified and I will compile such a list? > > Since much of the participation appears to be from Canada and the US, how > about giving me your state or province as well. > > Eric Abell email: eabell@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca > Gibbons, AB, T0A 1N0 > Canada > (403) 998 3143 Prince Edward Island, Canada Harvey Hyde hhyde@peinet.pe.ca ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 27 Apr 1995 09:08:05 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Subject: Re: Strange winter loss In-Reply-To: <9504271338.AA16680@cuugnet.cuug.ab.ca> On Thu, 27 Apr 1995, Eric Abell wrote: > Allen, > > > > > We split starting May 1. If you wait longer, they have dwindled from > > overpopulation and lack of sources, and splitting gets tough. > > I have never been entirely happy with my splits. How about sharing your > method with us? Here are a few thoughts: -Spring Management There are a number of aspects to spring management of colonies. The goals are simple: to maximize honey production, to maintain or increase colonies, and to make efficive use of resources: namely, management, labour, time, vehicles and fuel, feed, bees, and hives. The goal is also to minimize risk of loss due to missing a honey flow, swarming, chilling of splits, poor wintering , disease, or inability to manage the work schedule. Activities are interrelated and include splitting, disease detection and control, medication, mite treatments and surveys, scraping of floors and hive equipment, moving yards, feeding, removing excess feed, requeening, and adding space as required. A number of these activities often take place on a single visit to the yard. Sometimes a specialised team with unique equipment might handle one task, while a separate team handles another task in the same yard, or somewhere else in the outfit. Splitting There are a number of reasons for making splits and a number of ways of making them. The main reasons for making splits are: 1.) to increase the number of honey producing hives either in the current year or in the following year 2.) To reduce the size of colonies to discourage swarming and to put off 'peaking' until the expected flow. 3.) Control of mites 4.) To produce income from sale of nucs. There are many ways to make splits, but most ways are variations on the following: 1.) Splitting a two storey hive in half and 2.) selecting brood and feed from a colony (or colonies) and making up nucs. The timing and size of the splits will determine whether and how much honey the splits will make in the first year and whether they will be trouble free or a waste of time, effort and bees. Generally the earlier and the larger the split, the better, once pollen and nectar are available in the field. Adequate feed - both pollen and syrup or honey - must be available at all times in copious amounts in splits for them to be successful. Dry, hard capped combs of old feed may possibly be okay for a full strength colony, but nucs need liquid feed open, and near the brood. Honey in the hive is not the same as honey in the bee. If there is no nectar in open cells around the brood, your bees are starving, no matter that there may be a flow in progress, or that the hive is heavy. Warmth is essential. Use entrance reducers until June, and don't expect overly small splits to amount to anything. Remember - you can always go back and split again and again, but not if the colony doesn't prosper. Ideally, bees seem to do best when they occupy about 80 or 100% of their hive space without crowding and burr comb building (when observed on a 72 degree day), and they have a little empty comb to work in. The challenge in beekeeping is that this condition is not at all stable, and the colony size often doubles. This happens almost overnight when a large hatch of brood comes out. (See discussion of queens and laying cycles). Being able to anticipate when a hatch or a flow will demand more space is an art. Assessing Hives for Splitting or Reversing Brood must be available in all stages in both boxes of a two storey hive for the first two types of splits to work well. One way of ensuring this is to reverse at least a week before splitting. Hives for Side by side and takeway splits should be selected by tipping the two boxes forward and looking on the bottom bars and floor. If on a 50 degree day there are not bees covering the bottoms of at least six frames, the hive may be reversed. This is advisable only if there are bees covering several bottom bars, indicating some brood in the lower box. They may possibly need to be split later. Reversing ensures brood will be raised in both boxes - particularly with older queens, which are less inclined to lay throughout the hive, and expands the brood area. It also encourages reorganizing of feed in the hive and is thus stimulative. Moreover it ensures that the lower parts of all frames are used by the bees, reduces the honey barrier at the top of the hive, and makes the beekeeper realise when a hive is too light (starving) or too heavy (honey bound). Be very careful about reversing hives that are not covering combs in both boxes, because a very real danger for damage to the brood and colony exists if the weather is at all cool. Comparing 'Side by Side' Splits with 'Take-away' Splits and 'Progressive' Splits The first two types of splits are best done in early May. In our country (Central Alberta) splits made before May tenth seem to produce about as well as other similar colonies which are not split. We always place a made-up empty brood chamber under each half of these two types of splits to allow for expansion and to allow room in case the split is made from the heavy half of the overwintered hive. The extra space is below, and thus does not cause a loss of heat. We then reverse and feed again as soon as the queen is laying and weather and flow conditions warrant. Frame feeders are used both top and bottom and we feed liberally. We aim to keep our doubles at about 45 to 50 kg total weight all spring. This breaks down to 10 + 10 for boxes and combs, 2-4 for bees, 5 for lid and floor, and the balance - 20 kg or so, for pollen and honey. This is about 8 frames of feed. On all our splits, we use entrance reducers until June. * * * * * * * * * * * Side by side splits are splits made by placing two floors close together directly in front of a two storey existing wintered hive and placing one empty brood box on each new floor. One half of the old colony then goes on top of each. See diagram below. The primary use of this method is for splitting and adding mated queens. For cells, the other methods detailed below are usually superior. In the case of a four pack palletized operation, splits can be made on the ground in front. Of necessity, the new hives will form a close spaced row of four in front of the pallet. In the case that one hive is not strong enough to split, the other can still be split with no serious drifting resulting. The extra hives can later be removed from the yard and the remaining hives lifted onto the pallet. It doesn't matter on what kind of day these splits are made, as even if the bees are flying, they will divide fairly evenly between the two splits . The queenless half should be given a queen, although, given 21 days, they will have their own - usually a good one if populations and stores are good and the weather is co-operative. There are several methods of introducing a queen. The most obvious is to simply look for the old queen, then insert a new mated queen or cell into the queenless half which is right next to it. This is slow, frustrating work, unsuited to the scheduling of a commercial operation. Another method is to wait until the fourth day and then look for eggs and add a queen to each queenless half. This does leave one split queenless for about a week, including introduction time. This brings up the merits of mated queens versus queen cells, which is another whole topic. The main advantage of side by side splits is that if one is inserting mated queens, the work of identifying the queenless half is simplified greatly. The other is that this can be done on hot days when bees could not be transported without a mess. Extra hives can be moved out when convenient - possibly by another crew and truck when yards are available for them. Splitting can then proceed more quickly. The disadvantage is messy looking yards (temporarily). Two queening can also be accomplished by stacking the splits back up when the new queen is laying, or some people use a special manifold box to combine the hives under a single stack of supers. * * * * * * * * * * * Takeaway splits are splits made where one of the two boxes of an over wintered hive is removed and taken to another yard and established as a colony there, whether to fill empty spaces in another established yard, or to start a new yard. If done when you are sure the bees have not been flying for several days (rainy or cool weather), they can even be left in the same yard without problems. Bees forget and re-orient after as little as one day without flight during off-flow periods. Be careful with this though, if there are any significant flows on, allow three days. During major flows, virtually every bee in the hive flies and will return to the original stand - this must be true or the abandonment method of honey pulling simply couldn't work - and we know it does. The only real problem with the takeaway method is that the second half of the hive is not readily available for comparison in queen searches when mated queens are to be used , and requeening is much slower. However, it is much neater as far as yard layout is concerned, is superior in the case where ripe queen cells are plentiful - plentiful enough to stick one into each half without searching for queens. All the lifting and moving are completed in one operation, but it may also be slower, because transport to new yards takes time. The additional (bottom) brood chamber may be given to the takeaway half after transport to the new yard - especially if manual loading is used. If early morning or a rainy day is chosen for the task, or if all hives in the yard to be split are smoked lightly at the entrance and repeatedly smoked so that foraging stops, all the bees will all be home and splits will be fairly even. However, if a flow is on and it's warm, and it's later in the day, it will be hard to keep the bees on the truck until you leave the yard, unless you are quick, have a good smoker, and have a helper or two. This type of splitting is best done when it is cooler, but not cold. Early morning is good. Showery weather is fine too. The bees are often lazy, if not always exactly friendly, when the humidity is high. This method is good where there are enough ripe cells available to stick one cell into each of half of all spits without bothering to look for queens. One cell is likely wasted, but it usually takes much more time to find queens than to raise cells. Moreover requeening can take place at the time of splitting if cell protectors are used. The advantages of takeway spits are that the yard layout is not disrupted and new yards can be started with the splits. The disadvantages are that both halves are not available for reference to speed queen locating, and that transporting hives distracts from this method of splitting which must be accomplished within the first two weeks of May for best results. Side by side and takeway splits are 'quick and dirty', usually work well, and avoid having to work through brood chambers frame by frame. They allow a lot of splitting in a short time with unskilled and/or clumsy help. They do not allow the same flexibility in adjusting feed and brood as progressive splits. Disease checks are usually omitted. Progressive (Top) Splits are a different approach altogether to splitting. Using this method, splitting progresses all spring, and even into the summer. There is no rush to complete splitting in Early May, or even before supers go on. Hives are worked through frame by frame. Requeening, disease checks, changing frames and other adjustments may suggest themselves to the beekeeper as he works. Superior stock can be spotted for potential breeding selection. Earlier splits will be producers, later splits will allow for increase. All splits must be fed liberally until they weigh 50kg and are into thirds. Initially, hives are reversed as soon as they are strong enough - bees covering some bottom bars - and the weather is settled enough - Late April or May in our area. Reversing is not essential, but ensures that there is brood in both boxes later. The procedure is to work through the yards, reversing, scraping, feeding, medicating, and to remove brood and feed from hives. Shake just enough bees from each frame to ensure the queen is not it. Don't shake so hard you displace the worker larvae from the bottom of the cells, and don't shake any with a queen cell if you plan to get a queen out of. A maximum of two or three frames of brood - in various stages of development - is taken on each trip, and only from hives that can spare it. Care must be taken to ensure that too much brood is not robbed from any one hive. Indeed, some promising hives are given brood. However, shake out any really slow hives onto the ground, no matter how pretty the queen may be and use the frames and boxes for making more nucs. Be careful during this not to damage brood. Brood is extremely valuable and vulnerable. It chills, overheats, or dries out very quickly if left out of the hive in the wind, rain or sun - especially open brood. Keep it in a box with a frame of feed fresh from the hive on each side to keep it warm and sheltered. Doing this work is like open heart surgery. It can do a world of good, but the metabolism of the hive is disturbed violently during the work and for some time after. Temperature regulation is temporarily lost and brood rearing is set back a day or two. Remember you are working to help the bees - so do things their way. Put brood close to other brood in the splits to share warmth, put the feed on the outside and don't put a warped frame next to a frame of brood, blocking its emergence. Preferably take several adjacent frames at a time from a hive and keep them in their relative positions in the new split. While there are few bees on the frames is an excellent time to scrape off burr and brace comb. One thing to keep in mind, however is that some ladder comb may serve you well. If your boxes are not perfect in their dimensions, there may be such a gap between the bottoms of the frames in the top box and the top bars in the bottom box that a queen cannot get over easily. Therefore you may inhibit the queen's travel through the hive by being too tidy. If the work is going slowly and a flow comes on, the job must be suspended and a special quick round of all yards is necessary to give thirds to strong hives - with or without an excluder - to hold them until their turn comes. If an excluder is not used, then the third may be used to make up a split later when convenient, and the hive again returned to a two storeys. As the beekeeper progresses through each yard, surplus brood and feed are accumulated into brood chamber boxes, each with a frame feeder, and placed above excluders on the strongest hives. The brood is arranged in an approximation to normal hive cluster shape, and feed is placed to the sides. All the feed frames in the top splits are from the parent overwintered hives, not from storage or dead hives, as it has been conditioned by the bees and the bees will more readily occupy it. Any old feed frames from storage or dead hives, are used in the parent colonies below which are strong enough to accept them. A full range of brood ages should be included, including one frame with eggs and open brood, if at all possible. This will serve to attract and hold bees when the split is eventually removed. The brood and feed is then replaced with empty frames, frames of feed, or foundation as appropriate in each parent hive. This is an opportunity to do some constructive beekeeping and brood chamber maintenance. Some hives may be honeybound, and others may be starving in early May. Medication with tetracycline is important when inserting new frames. Any foulbrood found may be removed, if serious - especially widespread scale on a comb. These combs should either be flattened in the diseased area with a hive tool and placed in the centre of a strong hive and medicated, or preferably discarded - particularly if you are not religious in your medication rounds. Slight fresh outbreaks may be medicated and marked for observation. Usually they clean up and disappear if adequate medication is used. Diseased combs may be accumulated into special quarantine splits and taken to a nurse yard. With adequate populations and medication they will clear up and stay healthy with only normal preventative medication once clean for a season. We have one inch auger holes on the front of all brood chamber boxes and find that it is extremely helpful in that the bees orient well to the hives in spite of different colours, and we don't have to cut the grass as early in the season. Hives stay more even in population as well, because a few strong hives with lots of entrance activity don't attract bees from weak colonies as much. It also is very good for encouraging the bees to occupy and recognize the split above the excluder. Each split may consist of anywhere from one to eight frames of brood. Four is best for most purposes. One frame is not recommended. Two, or preferably three will ensure that your efforts are not wasted. Small splits are easily damaged by frosts, robbing, and are generally unviable. Larger splits will usually produce considerable honey, especially if made early and boosted with a second box of brood and bees when the queen is established. After a yard is finished, there will be some hives with splits on top as thirds. We feed all hives syrup, filling all the frame feeders, unless we plan to move the splits immediately, in which case we leave the top one mostly empty to avoid spillage. We normally leave the splits on hives for several days, until a batch of cells is ready - but they can be removed immediately to have queens or cells inserted, if available. If you wish to take the spits away on the same visit as they are made up, then leave the lids off the splits as you go. This will encourage the bees to come up. Careful repeated smoking at the entrance will also help move bees up into the splits. The best way, however is to average three days or so before removing them, They have the assistance of the full hive population in getting re-organized. These splits can be used as new colonies by removing them to new yards and placing them on a floor with an entrance reducer or they may be used as seconds on previous splits - resulting in producing colonies. This gives a lot of flexibility if you are raising your own cells. First, the splits can be left on the parent hives for as much as a week - if you had eggs in the splits. After that all the brood will be sealed, and the splits may not hold their bees well when moved away. Second, during this time they can be used either as splits or as boosters. This allows one to time the arrival of a batch of cells or queens without leaving a split queenless for long, and provides an alternate use if cells or queens are unavailable. The advantages of progressive splits are that they allow ongoing swarm control all spring, place less stress on the colonies, allow for general improvement and equalizing of the colonies, spread the work out over a longer span and allow splits and cells to be available at the same time. Indeed, this method is not dependant on expensive imported queens, and can accomplish equal expansion using only locally produced cells. Swarm or supercedure cells can be utilised for those who do not raise their own cells or have a nearby source. We normally do not try to requeen any splits that do not take a queen on the first try. We use it as a booster under a good single box split next to it in the yard. After the first failure at requeening, the bees are older, and the split weaker. Why waste a queen or a cell on it? It's better to go out and make more splits with your resources. 'Don't put a first class resource into a second class result' - Peter Drucker - It is easy to spend 80% of your time on the 20% of your hives which never will do well. I try always to spend my time on the good hives that show promise and shake out or combine the losers as soon as they show their colours, so I can get on with the important stuff.. If your split had eggs, even if the queen or cell you put in does not work, you may well find you have a nice looking laying queen in three weeks - courtesy the bees themselves. Sometimes we don't get back to check. Usually things work out. If this splitting goes on into June or even July, then you will have supers on. This is not a big problem if you have excluders above the second. Just strip the supers off the first hive in the yard. Work on the hive, then place an excluder on and take the supers from the next hive and place them on top - and so on. The bees will merge into the new hive, or go home. No problem - after all, we're equalizing. If you don't use excluders, then unless you know where the queen is the supers should go onto their own hive. Of course, after July 15th, losing or killing queens is not a concern, as the bees will raise a very nice one themselves and you will have requeened cheaply. Bees from eggs laid after mid-July usually do not contribute to a crop. W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper VE6CFK Rural Route One Swalwell Alberta Canada T0M 1Y0 Email: dicka@cuug.ab.ca or allend@internode.net Virtual Art Gallery: http://www.cuug.ab.ca:8001/~dicka __________________Why not drop by?____________________ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 27 Apr 1995 11:12:17 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: David Hall Subject: Where are we? In-Reply-To: <199504271502.AA02924@lamb.sas.com> from "L-Soft list server at ALBNYVM1" at Apr 27, 95 11:01:57 am For future reference, if you send the following message to the listserve (listserv@...), you'll get back a list of subscribers broken down by country: review bee-l (by country (Notice you don't have a closing parenthesis.) To save everyone the trouble, here's some of the output you get: > * Country Subscribers > * ------- ----------- > * Australia 11 > * Belgium 5 > * Brazil 15 > * Canada 51 > * Chile 1 > * Croatia 2 > * Cyprus 1 > * Czech Republic 1 > * Denmark 3 > * Finland 2 > * France 2 > * Germany 7 > * Great Britain 22 > * Israel 3 > * Italy 2 > * Japan 4 > * Latvia 1 > * Netherlands 9 > * New Zealand 9 > * Norway 2 > * Slovenia 1 > * South Africa 6 > * Spain 2 > * Sweden 4 > * Switzerland 2 > * Taiwan 1 > * USA 351 > * ??? 25 > * > * Total number of "concealed" subscribers: 3 > * Total number of users subscribed to the list: 545 (non-"concealed" only) > * Total number of countries represented: 28 (non-"concealed" only) > * Total number of local node users on the list: 1 (non-"concealed" only) -- David Hall sasdmh@unx.sas.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 27 Apr 1995 11:29:01 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Mike Killoran Subject: Is this a case of balling? In-Reply-To: <9504270402.AA19872@ll.mit.edu> Hi, Yesterday I was checking on my new hive (I have two). Four days before I had installed a 3lb package of Buckfast and was going in to remove the queen cage. As I've seen in the past, the queen was released and they had started building burr comb in the gap produced between the frames surrounding the queen cage. I used my hive tool to remove a hand size piece of comb and removed the queen cage. I saw two unusual (to me) things: The queen cage was _packed_ with workers (it was like college kids in a VW!). I first thought it was the queen and her attendants, but no, the candy was long gone and they were just workers. Next I saw what I thought at first was some more burr comb with bees on it but it turned out to be a golf ball size cluster of bees. I was probing them with my finger trying to see if they were on more burr comb when I realized it might be a 'ball'. They were _tightly_ packed, and after some careful prodding with my finger the queen ran out! I watched as she moved along the frame and the other workers reaction to her. The bees in the 'ball' continued where they were and the queen soon had a number of new workers crawling on her again (not as bad as before). I decided to insert the tenth frame (removed due to the queen cage) and close up the hive hoping for the best. Later, reading in the _Beekeepers Handbook_, I found this was indeed one of the options on handling a 'balling'! Other details in case they're important: I saw two supersedure queen cells (in the middle of a frame - not at the bottom) being constructed. They are in a single deep hive body with frames that are mostly drawn (used as a super last year and have some comb missing from my clumsy uncapping). Perhaps not quite deep enough to lay eggs into? Here are my questions: Does this sound like a balling? She was very much alive and had probably been released three days before. If they were trying to kill her they were fairly inept... Is there an indirect way to introduce the queen without having the queen cage leave a violation of the bee space (thus the unwanted comb)? I've read that manipulations too soon after installing a package can lead to 'balling'. Should I wait longer before taking out the queen cage? Mike Killoran Zen says: killoran@ll.mit.edu Cease to do evil, (617) 981-2667 (Lexington, MA USA) Try to do good. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 27 Apr 1995 10:45:08 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Doug Yanega Subject: Re: "Where are you?" messages >On Thu, 27 Apr 1995, Eric Abell wrote: > >> So..... Where are you from. It would be most interesting to collect a >> list of countries represented. How about sending me a message with your >> country identified and I will compile such a list? >> >> Eric Abell email: eabell@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca >> Gibbons, AB, T0A 1N0 >> Canada >> (403) 998 3143 Please note that Eric said "sending *me* a message", not "sending *everyone* a message". Show a little courtesy for the rest of us. Thanks, Doug Yanega Illinois Natural History Survey, 607 E. Peabody Dr. Champaign, IL 61820 USA phone (217) 244-6817, fax (217) 333-4949 "There are some enterprises in which a careful disorderliness is the true method" - Herman Melville, Moby Dick, Chap. 82 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 27 Apr 1995 12:08:20 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Edward Sterling Subject: ANP brood comb vs. Apistan Hi all, Seeking advice for a small beekeeper.....like just 2 hives! When I called a local bee supply company, they said ANP brood comb (to prevent varroa) cost $8.10/frame. Gulp, that's $160 per hive. I understand it works very well though. How does that compare to using Apistan? Does the special comb largely eliminate the "exposure" of NOT being able to use Apistan during honey flow? Do I understand that correctly (that you don't use Apistan "all the time"). But at $160/hive, geez, that makes beekeeping a real expensive hobby! I kept a few hives about 10 years ago "when it was easy"...I'm willing to take anti-varroa measures, but wonder what's appropriate for only 2 hives, just being kept for "the fun of it" plus a little honey to share with some friends. Could some kind person offer some advice on what a small time beekeeper should do....is ANP intended for pros, or little guys too? Thanks a bunch Ed ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ed Sterling, GPCC | ACTUAL quotes from my kids: "Daddy, hummingbirds Bolton, MA 01740 USA | help the bees put honey in the flowers!" "In the Phone/FAX: 508-779-6058 | daytime, the sun melts the moon into cloudpieces!" "ed@gpcc.ultranet.com" | "A snowman makes the quietest sounds in the world" ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- http://www.ultranet.com/~ed => info about collecting toys from 1950s/60s/70s such as playsets, Army toys, GI Joe, cowboy gun sets, building sets, etc!! ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 27 Apr 1995 16:53:58 GMT Reply-To: Gordon@apis.demon.co.uk Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Gordon L. Scott" Subject: Re: German Queen marking kit? Phil Earle writes: > In the UK Thornes Ltd, Wragby,Lincoln,LN3 5LA. (FAX 01673 857004) sell > a marking kit composed of numbered (1-99) circular colored (5 colors) > plastic discs. It maybe Swiss or German origin ? Price is 17.06 UK > pounds It is German so it's probably the right one. It's _just_, a few days ago, gone up in price (to what I can't remember), it's probably cheaper direct if you can find the original supplier. Regards, -- Gordon Scott Gordon@apis.demon.co.uk Compuserve 100332,3310 Gordon@multitone.co.uk Basingstoke Beekeeper Beekeeper@apis.demon.co.uk ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 27 Apr 1995 17:03:10 GMT Reply-To: Gordon@apis.demon.co.uk Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Gordon L. Scott" Subject: Re: Queen Bee's sting> Andy Nachbaur wrote: > I was enjoying the good catch so I continued to work, putting > the extra queens in my mouth, what the heck I am only a beekeeper, why > not?.... Hey kids, only superman can do this -- don't try this at home :-) Keep smiling, -- Gordon Scott Gordon@apis.demon.co.uk Compuserve 100332,3310 Gordon@multitone.co.uk Basingstoke Beekeeper Beekeeper@apis.demon.co.uk ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 27 Apr 1995 10:49:00 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Kerry Clark 784-2225 fax (604) 784 2299" Subject: Re: tylosin for control of foulbrood Trials to determine the effective use of tylosin against AFB have been done. A proposal to have it registered for bee hive use has been made. That is where the situation has sat for over a year. I suppose that with the continued effectivness of oxytetracycline, there is little demand to complete the process. I don't think I've heard whether trials against EFB have been done. Anyone know? Kerry Clark, Apiculture Specialist B.C. Ministry of Agriculture 1201 103 Ave Dawson Creek B.C. V1G 4J2 CANADA Tel (604) 784-2225 fax (604) 784-2299 INTERNET KCLARK@GALAXY.GOV.BC.CA ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 27 Apr 1995 15:51:00 CST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Matt Ter Molen Subject: ANP? What is ANP? I have never heard of this type of treatment in any of the bee magazines in the U.S. or on this list. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 27 Apr 1995 16:25:31 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: RFC822 error: Incorrect or incomplete address field found and ignored. From: Jeff Fagerman Subject: Hive Top Feeders Bee-List Readers, I have a quick question concerning the effectiveness of hive top feeders, in particular those resembling shallow supers. I have a few of these that I have made, modeled after those sold commercially. However, everytime I have tried to use them, the bees seem to ignore them. If I use a standard Boardman entrance feeder, the bees will take the syrup (without robbing). So the question is, "Do the hive top feeders of this sort really work?" And if they don't, why not? Why would the bees ignore such a readily available source of food? I look forward to your responses. Thanks in advance. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Jeff Fagerman (x7903) --- Analytical Photogrammetry jafagerm@ingr.com --- Software Development FAX: 205 730 9550 --- PhotoScan, IMA, IMD --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Create in me a clean heart, O God, and put a new and right spirit within me. Psalms 51:10 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 27 Apr 1995 21:38:29 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "La Reine de la Cite' des Phoques (Liz Day)" Subject: petting bees My daughter and I would do the same w/ a hive of unpedigreed bees (Italians, mainly) in San Antonio a few years ago. I'd be real careful of that now in that part of the US (AHB and all). The hardest thing to teach her was that you can't pet bees quite the same way we did our dog. I'm getting back into Logan Ah, but you pet bumblebees - sometimes, if they will hold still. Liz Day presently in New York City, USA receiving mail at lday@indy.net (that's Lday, not ONEday) ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 27 Apr 1995 22:39:20 -0500 Reply-To: godave@infi.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Dave Johnson Organization: mailhost.nr.infi.net Subject: ANP brood comb In response to recent bee-list posts: What is ANP brood comb and how does it (allegedly) alleviate varroa mite infestation? ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 27 Apr 1995 22:57:00 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Keith Murray Subject: Re: Where are you? In-Reply-To: <199504271404.AA03479@access.mbnet.mb.ca> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Keith Murray * Don't worry about people stealing St.Mary's Academy * an idea. If it's original, you 550 Wellington cres. * will have to ram it down their Winnipeg, Manitoba * throats. -H. Aiken ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 28 Apr 1995 16:06:21 +1200 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Cliff Van Eaton Subject: Where are you? - Reply Bay of Plenty (east coast, North Island), New Zealand ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 28 Apr 1995 16:15:13 +1000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Codger Subject: Re: Hive Top Feeders Jeff I use plastic freezer bags normally about 25cm 35cm with 1 to 1 sugar /water with a tie about top.this works ok here and I just put in under a migratory lid with a small hole with some liquid squeezed over the top of the frames.The climate here I would think is rather different aswe are in thefourth year of very dry times and 35degree plus temperatures through out a long summer. good luck Vince B Constable >Bee-List Readers, > >I have a quick question concerning the effectiveness of hive top feeders, >in particular those resembling shallow supers. I have a few of these that >I have made, modeled after those sold commercially. However, everytime I >have tried to use them, the bees seem to ignore them. If I use a standard >Boardman entrance feeder, the bees will take the syrup (without robbing). >So the question is, "Do the hive top feeders of this sort really work?" >And if they don't, why not? Why would the bees ignore such a readily >available source of food? > >I look forward to your responses. > >Thanks in advance. > >--------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Jeff Fagerman (x7903) --- Analytical Photogrammetry > jafagerm@ingr.com --- Software Development > FAX: 205 730 9550 --- PhotoScan, IMA, IMD >--------------------------------------------------------------------------- >Create in me a clean heart, O God, and put a new and right spirit >within me. Psalms 51:10 > > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 28 Apr 1995 09:13:39 +0000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: John Lamb Subject: help on unsubscribing Sorry to appear so dim but can somebody please remind me of the exact syntax for unsubscribing from this list. Thanks! ________________________ John Lamb E-Mail> jlamb@johnlamb.demon.co.uk ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 28 Apr 1995 08:33:18 GMT Reply-To: Gordon@apis.demon.co.uk Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Gordon L. Scott" Subject: Re: Hive Top Feeders Jeff Fagerman writes: > Bee-List Readers, > > I have a quick question concerning the effectiveness of hive top feeders, > in particular those resembling shallow supers. I use these almost exclusively and frame feeders for some special cases. I always run a little syrup down onto the frames to help the bees find the source. Usually the feeders are empty within a few days, if not, they probably have no room for the new stores. I find that they don't go up if its too cold. Make sure your feeding's done before the weather breaks. Regards, -- Gordon Scott Gordon@apis.demon.co.uk Compuserve 100332,3310 Gordon@multitone.co.uk Basingstoke Beekeeper Beekeeper@apis.demon.co.uk ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 28 Apr 1995 09:26:43 +0100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: johan calis Subject: ANP A(pis)N(ova)P(roducts)-combs \From: Edward Sterling \When I called a local bee supply company, they said ANP brood \comb (to prevent varroa) cost $8.10/frame. Gulp, that's $160 \per hive. I understand it works very well though. \How does that compare to using Apistan? Does the special comb \From: Matt Ter Molen \What is ANP? I have never heard of this type of treatment in any of \the bee magazines in the U.S. or on this list. \From: Dave Johnson \What is ANP brood comb and how does it (allegedly) alleviate varroa mite \infestation? Hi, ANP-combs are plastic combs with separate celwalls and "foundation". The trick is in the cell walls. The brood cells are conical. On one side the cellwalls are normal and the cells are drone-sized, on the other side the cell walls are thick and the cell is worker-sized. When the drone-sized side is attached to the 'foundation' the queen walks over the worker-sized surface and she lays worker-eggs. The developing worker-larvae are, however, at the bottom experiencing a drone-sized brood cell. Mites invade brood cells when the distance between the nearly fulgrown larvae to the cell rim is about 7mm. This distance is reached at about 15-20 hours before cell capping in normal worker cells. When the worker-larvae are in over-sized ANP brood cells this period of brood cell invasion is shortend to about 9 hours (Wieting & Ferenz, 1990; Am. Bee. Journal 131:117-118). The population-growth of the mites is directly related to the rate of brood cell invasion, because mites can only reproduce inside a capped brood cell. Therefore, due to the ANP-combs the growth rate of the mite population will surely be reduced. Also the reproduction of the mite may be affected in these unnatural cells, but little is known of this aspect. These ANP-combs have not become popular in Europe. We have had two colonies on these comb a few years ago. They did survive Varroa-infestation, but these colonies didn't become very vitally. Chemical treatment is generally effective, but because we work on Varroa- behaviour, we do not want to use chemical treatment to keep our colonies healthy (these chemicals may affect the behaviour of the mites). For a few years on a row we use a self-developed trapping comb method with drone brood, which is removed from the colony after capping together with the trapped mites. The trick of this method is that you manage drone brood production and let this drone brood trap mites in otherwise broodless colonies e.g. during swarmprevention methods. This year we wrote a manual for this method (in Dutch) and give a course to interrested bee-keepers. Johan.Calis@medew.ento.wau.nl Wageningen Agricultural University Department of Entomology ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 28 Apr 1995 10:55:04 +0100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Malcolm Roe Subject: Re: ANP In-Reply-To: from "johan calis" at Apr 28, 95 09:26:43 am Johan Calis wrote: > For a few years on a row we use a self-developed trapping comb method with > drone brood, which is removed from the colony after capping together with the > trapped mites. The trick of this method is that you manage drone brood > production and let this drone brood trap mites in otherwise broodless > colonies e.g. during swarmprevention methods. This year we wrote a manual for > this method (in Dutch) and give a course to interrested bee-keepers. This is interesting. Most biotechnical methods of varroa control tend to be labour-intensive. If your method is integrated with swarm control (another labour-intensive operation) it would seem to have the potential for little extra work beyond what would have been required just for swarm control. Could you tell us more? -- Malcolm Roe Phone : +44 1442 345104 Crosfield Electronics Ltd Fax : +44 1442 343000 Hemel Hempstead, Herts. HP2 7RH, UK E-mail : roe@crosfield.co.uk ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 28 Apr 1995 12:21:42 +0100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: johan calis Subject: ...no subject... Bee-liners? - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Original Message - - - - - - - - - - - - - - To: Multiple recipients of list entomo-l@ccshst06.cs.uoguelph.ca From: MCEWEN@taff.cf.ac.uk Date: Friday, April 28, 1995 at 11:05:42 am CET Attached: None Niijima and Matsuka (1989) say that Chrysoperla carnea can be raised on a product called drone powder (lypolized drone-honeybee brood powder). Can anyone tell me if this is available commercially and where I can get hold of some in a hurry? Thanks, PETER MCEWEN, UNIV. WALES, CARDIFF, UK. SABPKM1@cardiff.ac.uk. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 28 Apr 1995 07:10:41 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: John Oldfather Subject: Re: Where are you? John Oldfather joldfather@aol.com Louisville, Kentucky ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 28 Apr 1995 07:32:42 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Lucy Cronin Subject: Re: Where are you? I am in a small Northern Ontario town called Hanmer, in Canada. Cheers, Luce. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 28 Apr 1995 12:30:33 +0100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: johan calis Subject: ...no subject... Drone comb method \This is interesting. Most biotechnical methods of varroa control tend \to be labour-intensive. If your method is integrated with swarm control \(another labour-intensive operation) it would seem to have the potential \for little extra work beyond what would have been required just for \swarm control. Could you tell us more? Dear Malcolm Roe, I agree there is little extra work! Briefly the method: We combine treatment in two colonies. During early spring (now) we put drone comb foundation in our colonies and remove this after capping (two drone combs on the edges of the brood nest are placed and replaced after capping). This can be combined with regular inspections. This in fact is the original drone-comb method which works well but not well enough. Generally it can be assumed that at least the growth of the mite population can be prevented with drone comb removal in a queen right colony with brood in all stages. Than comes the period of swarm prevention. We work in the colonies weekly at the same day. Week 1 Colony 1 & 2. We place a drone comb in the middle of the brood nest, because we want the queen to lay eggs in it during the following week. Week 2 Colony 1: we remove all the brood except for the drone combs with larvae and put this brood into colony 2. In this broodless colony 1, all mites are now on the bees and can be trapped with the drone combs that are being capped. This colony is mite'free' after one week, and is being used to produce drone combs with larvae for the other colony. Therefore we also put an empty drone comb next to the drone comb with larvae. Colony 2: We put the queen together with at least one drone comb with larvae and an empty drone comb in an otherwise broodless super on top and separated with a queen excluder of the other supers with all the brood of colony 1 & 2. Week 3. Colony 1 : In most cases the drone brood will be capped and can be removed (but the drone brood will not emerge for at least another week and can therefore remain in the colony when still a large portion of the drone brood cells are open). The colony is now clean. The newly produced worker brood of colony 2 is removed from there and put into colony 1 (brood younger than 7 days is still not being invaded by mites, so this brood is and (since it's being tranferred to the already mite free colony 1) remains mite free!). The drone comb with larvae is being replaced by an empty drone comb. Colony 2 : The top super, with the queen, is taken from the colony and placed on a bottom board. As mentioned the young worker brood is transferred to colony 1 and this artificial swarm is, containing at least 7/8 combs of bees, the queen and at least one drone comb with larvae, is being placed on a other stand to prevent the uncontrolable loss of flight bees. That leaves colony 2 queenless with brood aging at least 1 week. We remove all (urgency) queen cells if present. In this colony you can now breed new queens by e.g. offering larvae in queencups. Week 4. Colony 1: The drone comb with larvae is replaced with an empty one. Artificial swarm of colony 2: The drone comb can now be removed and similar to colony 1, week 3, this artificial swarm is now mite 'free'. Colony 2: The capped brood ages at least 2 weeks. A drone comb from colony 1 with larvae is placed into the middle of the colony. Week 5 Colony 1: The last drone comb with larvae is transferred to colony 2. Colony 2: Young queen emerged from queen cell. All the old brood is now emerged; all mites are now on the bees. The drone cells can now trap with a high efficacy the mites from the bees . week 6/7 Colony 2: The capped drone combs have to be removed and than also this colony with a young queen is mite 'free'. We started with 2 colonies and now we end with 3 colonies. Capped drone combs can be reused. To clean them cut the caps away with a breadknife, shake the drone pulp out (chickens love it!), clean with water with a handspray and let dry carefully. This is briefly the method as we use it, but many variants can be considered. Important rules of the thumb are: -You can only trap mites when they are on the bees. You have to trap in broodless colonies or colonies that have brood younger than 7 days. -You need 500 capped drone cells per kg bees (10.000 bees) to trap more than 95% of the mites in a broodless colony. -Brood younger than 7 days is not yet invaded by mites. -Never let drone combs emerge, than you will be breeding mites instead of trapping them. -Also natural swarms of unknown origin can be de-mited with a comb with drone larvae. Good luck! Johan.Calis@medew.ento.wau.nl ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 28 Apr 1995 05:00:00 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Keith Cutting Subject: Re: Where are you? Comments: To: Lucy Cronin <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<: Keith.Cutting@Dartmouth.edu The Cutting Farm Kearsage Beekeepers Association 103 North Road NH Beef Producers Association Sunapee, New Hampshire 03782 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 28 Apr 1995 06:37:02 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Subject: Re: Hive Top Feeders In-Reply-To: <9504272126.AA14654@cuugnet.cuug.ab.ca> On Thu, 27 Apr 1995, Jeff Fagerman wrote: > Bee-List Readers, > > I have a quick question concerning the effectiveness of hive top feeders, > in particular those resembling shallow supers. I have a few of these that > I have made, modeled after those sold commercially. However, everytime I > have tried to use them, the bees seem to ignore them. If I use a standard > Boardman entrance feeder, the bees will take the syrup (without robbing). > So the question is, "Do the hive top feeders of this sort really work?" > And if they don't, why not? Why would the bees ignore such a readily > available source of food? Although your sig gives clues to your religious thoughts and a few other things -- including a phone number that appears to likey be North American --it doesn't tell where you and your bees actually are. Without that essential info, I don't know if you are experiencing spring or fall, or never experience either. Seeing as you are apparently using boardman feeders successfully, I assume you have bee entrance activity. But maybe not *your* bees -- read on. If you have enough entrance activity to empty a boardman, unless neighbouring hives are emptying the feeders, you must have a fair sized hive of bees. Assuming that is the case, a hivetop feeder should work -- again assuming that you have it in contact with the cluster and not on top of several supers above the brood chamber. In my experience, well designed hivetops can work where boardmans don't -- particularly in cooler weather . Either feeder type can be an inducement for robbing if not protected from outside bees. Robbing can give the impression that your bees are being fed, when in fact the neighbourhood is getting all the syrup. Since you built your own feeders, it is possible, but not likely that the materials you used may have a repulsive effect on the bees if not the same as in the feeders you copied. If the shallow super you refer to is 6 5/8 inches, rather than 4 1/2, the bees have a longer walk and may not discover it -- especially if it is spring and your bees are weak. In short they do work, and work much better than the boardman -- which I would not recommend to anyone. I can only speculate why you apparently are not having success (due to lack of information). Come to think of it, I don't even know what you are trying to feed -- honey, sucrose syrup, invert? -- and at what dilution. Is there a flow on? Bees tend to ignore feed during a flow, but the boardman will continue to drip out its contents regardless (for the ants to eat) as the sun heats it and night cools it and the atmospheric pressure changes pump out whatever is left. The bag on top of frame idea works well -- but is fiddly, division board feeders (my choice -- I have 3000 of them) are extemely reliable (especially if made of wood and masonite), inverted jars and cans are fair, boardmans are poor, but hivetops are extremely effective for feeding large amounts in any season except possibly winter, if properly designed and used in a way consistent with bee behaviour. I have a few hundred of them and only use them in cases where I need more feed than a division board (frame) feeder or two will hold because the hivetop has one huge disadvantage for a commercial: if the bees don't empty it by the next inspection, it is difficult to handle and there is always the risk that a queen can be on the bottom of it when you take it off. It is difficult to examine the bottom of a full feeder :-). Hope this helps. If not, and you post more details, maybe we can figure out exactly what is happening. Allen W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper VE6CFK Rural Route One Swalwell Alberta Canada T0M 1Y0 Email: dicka@cuug.ab.ca or allend@internode.net Virtual Art Gallery: http://www.cuug.ab.ca:8001/~dicka __________________Why not drop by?____________________ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 28 Apr 1995 08:31:57 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Carl Mueller Subject: Where am I ----------------------------------------------------------------- Carl Mueller Email: cmueller@emi.net West Palm Beach, Florida USA I think therefore, I am politically incorrect!! ----------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 28 Apr 1995 10:33:10 GMT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: MEMO 1995/04/28 10:33:02 From: Mihaly Ligmond Subject: where are you To: PCCSSW.MAILER SSW[PCCSSW.MAILER] From: Mihaly Ligmond@SEA.LAB@FDAORAPAR Subject: where are you Date: Friday, April 28, 1995 at 10:33:02 am EDT Attach: Certify: N ---------------------------- [Message Follows] --------------------------------- Im located just outside of Seattle WA in Monroe. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 28 Apr 1995 07:31:09 -1000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Thomas W. Culliney" Subject: Re: Drone-trapping for varroa control In-Reply-To: <9504281009.AA20787@hinc.hawaii.gov> Could anyone give me a detailed break-down of the drone-trapping method of varroa control? I understand that the technique is quite labor intensive, but can it be as effective as fluvalinate in controlling varroa? Thanks for any info. Tom Culliney =============================================================== Thomas W. Culliney * Phone: (808) 973-9529 Hawaii Dept. of Agriculture * Facsimile: (808) 973-9533 Division of Plant Industry * E-mail: tcullin@hinc.hawaii.gov 1428 South King Street * Honolulu, Hawaii 96814 * U.S.A. * =============================================================== "...but in the minds of most men, the learned as well as the vulgar, the idea of the trifling nature of his pursuit is so strongly associated with that of the diminutive size of its objects, that an _Entomologist_ is synonymous with every thing futile and childish."--Kirby & Spence (1816) =============================================================== ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 28 Apr 1995 18:48:52 +0100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Malcolm Roe Subject: Re: petting bees In-Reply-To: <199504280238.AA03838@IndyNet.indy.net> from "La Reine de la Cite' des Phoques" at Apr 27, 95 09:38:29 pm Liz day wrote: > Ah, but you pet bumblebees - sometimes, if they will hold still. I remember when I was 5 or 6 there was a lavender bush that attracted lots of bees - honey bees and bumble bees of various species. I spent several happy days catching them in my bare hands and putting them in glass jars. In the end one stung me of course and put me off that game for a while. But here I am (in my second childhood?) playing with bees again! -- Malcolm Roe Phone : +44 1442 345104 Crosfield Electronics Ltd Fax : +44 1442 343000 Hemel Hempstead, Herts. HP2 7RH, UK E-mail : roe@crosfield.co.uk ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 28 Apr 1995 11:20:14 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Richard Spear Subject: Re: Where are you? In-Reply-To: <199504281134.EAA26048@mailhost.primenet.com> Sunland, California, USA ... in the northernmost part of Los Angeles. Regards, Richard rspear@primenet.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 28 Apr 1995 14:33:27 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Gordon D. Hayes" Subject: Re: The Frugal Beekeeper >Unfortunately, mites ARE NOT insects, they are in the order Acari which include >Diana Sammataro Thanks for the enlightenment. I have gained a lot of useful info on this list. gh ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 28 Apr 1995 13:58:58 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Vaughn M. Bryant" Subject: Re: Where are you? As you requested, I am sending you this message with my address. Vaughn M. Bryant, Jr. Professor and Head Director of Palynology Department of Anthropology Texas A&M University College Station, Texas 77843-4352 FAX (409) 845-2070 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 28 Apr 1995 15:26:08 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Diana Sammataro Subject: Re: Tracheal Mite Survey In-Reply-To: <199504270837.EAA28804@postbox.acs.ohio-state.edu> from "PHILIP EARLE" at Apr 27, 95 09:36:33 am Dear List Members Before Adrian sent his note out, I was in the process of doing mine. So here it is. Thanks in advance. To: Cooperators for the Tracheal mite study From: Diana Sammataro Date: April 28, 1995 I am trying to accumulate data on the impact of colony survival before and after tracheal mites were found in North America. This is in conjunction with my comparing the DNA of tracheal mites to see if there is a shift in mite populations or if there is some geographical distribution of lethal and non-lethal mites. There is some circumstancial evidence that the lethality of mites may be modifying since their discovery. In order to track this, would anyone who has the information, please answer the following questions and return via email or snail mail your answers. Thank you in advance. Deadline: June 1, 1995. 1. When were tracheal mites first recorded in your state/province/region? 2. Prior to that year (answered in #1), what was the stateUs average loss of bees over winter, not due to disease? 3. After the tracheal mites were discovered, what was the average winter loss in subsequent years, due to the mites? 4. How and when do you test bees for mites andwhat technique is used to find the tracheal mites? 5. Do you have 5-10 yearUs worth of data on the infestation levels of tracheal mites in your state? 6. Your name, address, phone, fax, email. Thank you again. PLEASE ANSWER ME DIRECTLY, NOT VIA THE BEE LIST. Diana Sammataro Department of Entomology The Ohio State University 1735 Neil Ave., 105 Botany & Zoology Bldg. Columbus, OH 43210-1220 Phone: (614) 292-9089, Fax: (614) 292-2180 Email: dsammata@magnus.acs. ohio-state.edu ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 28 Apr 1995 07:34:28 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Moote, John M." Subject: Legless Queens & Bee Vitamins I read yesterday of some studies done on determining how the queen fertilizes worker eggs but doesn't fertilize drones. Apparently, the initial hypothesis concerned cell size and the queen's laying posture. Some thought that the smaller cell size of a worker cell squeezed the queen's abdomen and caused the egg to be fertilized. I guess the queen's anatomy is not consistent with this (Koeniger, Bee World 51:166-9). In another study (Koeniger, ibid. and Summary of the 22nd International Beekeeping Conference, p. 138) partially or completely amputating the queen's forelegs produced an all female laying queen. Apparently this robbed the queen of her ability to sense the cell size during her pre-inspection. Question 1 - Why not routinely clip the queen's forelegs to avoid drone production? Later in the book I'm reading, it talks about bee nourishment and mentions several vital sterols, lipids and vitamins (mainly B-vitamins, how appropriate) to bee development. Question 2 - Why not supplement a new colony with something besides pollen substitute and sugar water, Fumadil and Terramycin? The book I'm reading is The Biology of the Honeybee by Mark L. Winston. I'm a newbee so as far as I know, this stuff is the Gospel according to Mark. It is great reading and has all the references (although I don't know exactly where I'll find them, some are pretty obscure and my technical German is a little rusty for some of the sources ... perhaps I'll try the University of Michigan library since it is closeby). The book seems to be far easier reading than ABCXYZ and more current, too. Look forward to your replies. John Moote Mootejm@BASF-Corp.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 28 Apr 1995 16:24:00 CST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "(Alistair Carr RS/RC (608) 221-6363)" Subject: Re: Where are you? Comments: To: BEE-L%ALBNYVM1.BITNET@UBVM.cc.buffalo.edu I apologise for posting to the whole list, but I prematurely flushed the original posting and lost the originator's address...anyway, in the interest of bee-liner solidarity, here's my contribution: I live and keep my hive in Madison, Wisconsin, USA (2nd hive soon - and I decided on Carniolans - thanks for the advice, Blane) ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 28 Apr 1995 21:10:10 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ademilson Espencer Egea Soares Subject: Re: Where are you? In-Reply-To: <9504281335.AA22786@uhura.fmrp.usp.br> I'm in Ribeirao Preto, Sao Paulo State in Brazil. I live near of the place where was introduced the African bees, by Dr. Warwick E.Kerr in 1956. I work at USP (Sao Paulo University) in a research center. If you need any information about africanized honeybees, please send your letter for: Ademilson Espencer Egea Soares Departamento de Genetica Faculdade de Medicina de Ribeirao Preto - USP 14.049-900 Ribeirao Preto - SP - Brazil Fax: 016-6330069 E-mail: aeesoare@frmp.usp.br Te vejo mais tarde. Espencer ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 29 Apr 1995 00:25:16 EDT Reply-To: kdelapla@gis.lislab.uga.edu Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Keith Delaplane Subject: Re: Beekeeping video series Comments: To: BEE-L%ALBNYVM1.BITNET@uga.cc.uga.edu To John Moote, thank you for the kind remarks about my beekeeping video series. The book and videos are for-sale publications of the University of Georgia Center for Continuing Education. You may call them at (800) 359-4040. The title is "Honey Bees & Beekeeping: A Year in the Life of an Apiary." Dr. Keith S. Delaplane Department of Entomology 200 Barrow Hall University of Georgia Athens, GA 30602 USA phone (706) 542-1765 fax (706) 542-3872 kdelapla@service.uga.edu ksd@uga.cc.uga.edu ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 29 Apr 1995 08:31:00 GMT Reply-To: ibra@matheson.demon.co.uk Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: ibra Subject: Re: Drone-trapping for varroa control In a message dated Friday 28, April 1995 Thomas Culliney wrote : > Could anyone give me a detailed break-down of the drone-trapping method > of varroa control? I understand that the technique is quite labor > intensive, but can it be as effective as fluvalinate in controlling varroa? This is described in detail in 'Living with varroa' (IBRA, 1993), in the chapters 'What future for biotechnical control?' and 'Varroa in cold climates: population dynamics, biotechnical control and organic acids'. In 'New perspectives on varroa' (IBRA, 1994) there is a detailed account entitled 'An example of integrated biotechnical and soft chemical control of varroa in a Danish apiary'. In 1992 and 1993 the trapping comb technique followed by heat treatment of the sealed brood for four hours at 44 degrees, combined with drone brood removal, was sufficient to control the mite infestation in most cases. However, the study also showed that even for skilled beekeepers the contol procedure could cause problems, and combining the biotechnical method with 'soft chemicals' (lactic acid or formic acid; soft until you splash some on your skin) after the nectar flow is a viable option. In the same volume there is a mathematical model described in 'Evaluation of varroa control methods based on trapping mites in honey bee brood. Both these publications are available from IBRA for 16 pounds (about 26 dollars) post paid world wide. If your German is up to it the trapping comb technique was described by Maul, V (1983) in Allgemeine Deutsche Imkerzeitung 18: 179-180; 182-183; 'Empfehlungen zur Methodik der Varroa-Elimination mittels Bannwaben aus Arbeiterbrut. Some of these methods have been around a while. Andrew ************************************************************************** * From Andrew Matheson, Director, International Bee Research Association * * * * E.mail (home): ibra@matheson.demon.co.uk * * (office): ibra@cardiff.ac.uk * * * * IBRA, 18 North Road, Cardiff CF1 3DY, UK * * Fax (+44) 1222-665522 Telephone (+44) 1222-372409 * ************************************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 29 Apr 1995 08:34:24 GMT Reply-To: ibra@matheson.demon.co.uk Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: ibra Subject: Re: Legless Queens & Bee Vitamins In his message dated Friday 28, April 1995 John Moote wrote : > The book I'm reading is The Biology of the Honeybee by Mark L. Winston. I'm > a newbee so as far as I know, this stuff is the Gospel according to Mark. > It is great reading and has all the references Yes, it's a highly readable and informative account of the subject. (although I don't know > exactly where I'll find them, some are pretty obscure and my technical > German is a little rusty for some of the sources I would say that almost all will be available from the IBRA library, and both members and non-members can order photocopies of the articles. Andrew -- ************************************************************************** * From Andrew Matheson, Director, International Bee Research Association * * * * E.mail (home): ibra@matheson.demon.co.uk * * (office): ibra@cardiff.ac.uk * * * * IBRA, 18 North Road, Cardiff CF1 3DY, UK * * Fax (+44) 1222-665522 Telephone (+44) 1222-372409 * ************************************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 29 Apr 1995 08:12:31 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Eric Abell Subject: Re: Where are we? Comments: To: David Hall In-Reply-To: <9504271502.AA45084@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca> thanks for the list. That was much better (and easier) than my attempt to compile such a list. Thanks to those who replied to me with their location. By the way. One reply felt I was starting a mailing list. NOT SO. Eric Abell email: eabell@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca Gibbons, AB, T0A 1N0 Canada (403) 998 3143 On Thu, 27 Apr 1995, David Hall wrote: > For future reference, if you send the following message to the listserve > (listserv@...), you'll get back a list of subscribers broken down by > country: > > review bee-l (by country > > (Notice you don't have a closing parenthesis.) > > To save everyone the trouble, here's some of the output you get: > > > > * Country Subscribers > > * ------- ----------- > > * Australia 11 > > * Belgium 5 > > * Brazil 15 > > * Canada 51 > > * Chile 1 > > * Croatia 2 > > * Cyprus 1 > > * Czech Republic 1 > > * Denmark 3 > > * Finland 2 > > * France 2 > > * Germany 7 > > * Great Britain 22 > > * Israel 3 > > * Italy 2 > > * Japan 4 > > * Latvia 1 > > * Netherlands 9 > > * New Zealand 9 > > * Norway 2 > > * Slovenia 1 > > * South Africa 6 > > * Spain 2 > > * Sweden 4 > > * Switzerland 2 > > * Taiwan 1 > > * USA 351 > > * ??? 25 > > * > > * Total number of "concealed" subscribers: 3 > > * Total number of users subscribed to the list: 545 (non-"concealed" only) > > * Total number of countries represented: 28 (non-"concealed" only) > > * Total number of local node users on the list: 1 (non-"concealed" only) > > > -- > David Hall > sasdmh@unx.sas.com > ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 29 Apr 1995 09:25:17 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Eric Abell Subject: Where am I? It seems that this project is still interesting. Just 'cause it is interesting to see how far this list reaches so I will continue to compile it as long as people send in their country State or Province. By the way - this is for interest only. You son't get on any kind of a mailing list. So far (pretty much in the order received): Columbia Belgium New Zealand Brazil Northern Ireland England Canada Alberta Prince Edward Island New Brunswick Manitoba Ontario USA Virginia California Georgia Oregon Minnesota Kentucky New Hampshire Florida Washington Texas Wisconsin If you are from a country state or province not on the list, you can send me a note and it will be added. It is probably best if you send the message as a personal message rather than to the entire list. Eric Abell email: eabell@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca Gibbons, AB, T0A 1N0 Canada (403) 998 3143 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 29 Apr 1995 19:34:31 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Dave Green, Eastern Pollinator Newsletter" Subject: Re: Pollination Business ROSENLK@MAIL.FIRN.EDU (Kelley Rosenlund): > Well I got the bug;). > As many of you know I got my first hive last month & I now want to see about doing it on the side. I have arranged to spend time with a beekeeper to learn the trade secrets. He has agreed to sell me as many hives as I want (he has 650). I am mainly interested in renting my hives for pollination as I do not have the equipment yet for extracting/processing etc. I am trying to get some commitments from farmers for hives for next season. I have a lot of questions, bear with me. > Remember I live in north Florida when you ponder my questions. I commend you on your enthusiasm and excitement. I also advise caution. Don't jump in too fast. You are going to have to pay tuition in one of the most expensive schools of all - The University of the Seat of the Pants. I have been doing full time pollination service for long enough that I should pretty well know what I'm doing - but I still make some very educational and costly mistakes. I'd try working 10 - 20 hives for a year or two. That way you'll keep expensive mistakes at bearable levels. What crops are needing pollination in your area? I'm not too familiar with your area. In south Florida, there is a lot of watermelon, squash, cukes, mostly grown as winter crops. There is also citrus, which ususally gets pollinated free, but, as farmers become more aware and bees get in shorter supply, is occasionally paid, and probably will be more in the future. I assume you have summer melons, what else? Strawberries? >1.How many hives can one manage evenings & Saturdays? Probably a hundred, or so, if you're going to do a good job. I've known some to keep 300 - 350, but they let some things slip. >2.What problems have you encountered renting hives that I need to know about? >3.My bee mentor says he never has signed a contract with farmers. I think that is asking for trouble. Do you? If so what contract do you have? You want me to cry on your shoulder for a while? Most any problem you can think of, can occur, and has. A good contract will solve or prevent some of those. I'll send a copy of mine for SASE if you want. >4. Have you had a lot of bee kills from pesticides or vandalism? Yes. Your grower is not usually the problem with pesticides, as he knows he needs the bees, and you have a contract with him that makes him liable for application in violation of directions. It's his neighbor, who doesn't think he needs the bees. We have a lot of problems in this area with cotton sprayin g, especially aerial applicators who want to do the maximum possible acreage and are prone to make applications on blooming cotton, while bees are working. This is a label violation, and I am working to get enforcement. I also lost several hundred to our environmental "protectors" who sprayed in violation for mosquitoes after Hurricane Hugo. Every year I lose hives to vandals. When you take bees out of protected locations and put them in more public, exposed areas, they are more vulnerable. In the last five years, I've lost: theft - 24 hives (eleven were recovered when the thief sold them - for some crack money - to a melon grower, whose bees I help manage.) crushing by vehicles - 11, burned (arson) - 21, burned accidently - 7 (paid for), thrown in canal - 5, shot up - (destroyed, not counting the occasional slug) 4. >5. How about liability if someone gets stung in the field? In my contract, the farmer assumes liability. This has never been tested, however. You have to keep gentle bees. In a hidden bee yard, you can get away with a nasty hive. Don't put it in the field. Mexican field hands will tolerate an occasional sting, but will not tolerate a bad hive. They are apt to burn it and the gentle ones also, as they aren't selective. They also are constantly stealing honey. I put pesticide warnings in English and Spanish on the hives, saying the honey is not safe to eat; they are only for pollination. This helps quite a bit, as most of the workers can read. I also frequently give them honey, and explain the same thing; that the bees are treated for parasitas and the honey is poisonous. That the honey is made from blackberries and there are no chemicals in the honey I bottle. (Helps if you speak Spanish - and you'd better learn, if you don't) >I understand most farmers need well over 50 for their fields. Should I take the plunge & buy over 50 or try to find someone that could use 30? In this situation, with your inexperience, this would qualify as a speculative investment. The standard question with speculative investment is: how much can you afford to lose? >7. When do you get payed, before the crop, after or 50/50? As a newbie, don't ever place the bees without payment up front. I was approached by one apple grower who wanted 100 hives (payable at harvest). I had been warned by the previous year's beekeeper, and refused. He got the bees from a young beekeeper, who was needing customers (I warned him of the warning I got, but he was hungry). He didn't get paid either. The grower found another sucker the third year. The fourth year, no one would bring bees. He lost his crop and went belly up. Pollination gets less important after it is accomplished. Then you have to wait in line for your money. >8. How do you handle the...IRS? You have to make money first. You won't have this problem for a while. A couple good pesticide hits, and you may never have it. I hope this isn't too disheartening, because we badly need guys like you. This is a tough time to start, but, as you know, things go up and down. If you can get your foot in the door, learn the ropes, you'll be in good shape (buy low, sell high - that sort of thing). It took me the first five years before I had a clue, in pollination beekeeping. I may be a slow learner, but I still don't have my PhD in the Univesity of the Seat of the Pants. What little beekeeping education we have is oriented toward honey production. If I can be a resource for you, I'd be glad to try. I have no "trade secrets." I have had a couple good mentors, but I wish I had more. Good luck. Pollinator@aol.com Dave Green PO Box 1215, Hemingway, SC 29554 Eastern Pollinator Newsletter, Dave's Pollination Service ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 30 Apr 1995 04:01:00 +0200 Reply-To: DURK ELLISON Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: DURK ELLISON Organization: Metropoli, Finland Subject: Tylosin and AFB >From : Lassi Kauko BeeNet 240:2358/11 Subj : Tylosin and AFB DDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD .MSGID: 240:2358/100 f399901d .REPLY: 240:2358/11 78875226 .PID: TerMail 1.51 PROFESSIONAL 29-Apr-95 08:36, Lassi Kauko: wrote to Durk Ellison: Subject: Tylosin and AFB LK> @MSGID: 240:2358/11 78875226 LK> @PID: PPoint 1.86 LK> Hi Durk, LK> If You find this interesting, You can put it to BEE-L. LK> Toporcak et al from Kosice, Slovak republik, has recently worked with LK> Tylosin. The worst thing with Tylosin is that it is very stable and LK> it is possible to find residues very long time after medicating bees. LK> best regards LK> Lassi Kauko LK> @Via 240:2358/101 @19950429.195107 GEcho 1.11+ LK> Replies or questions to Lassi can be sent via me if you don't have access to BeeNet.......... Durk Ellison. OH2ZAS BeeNet: 240:2358/100 email: durk.ellison@pcb.mpoli.fi ..... Written offline on 30.Apr.1995 at 03.23 Hrs .!. BEEKEEPERS DO IT with their HONEY on BeeNet --- Terminate 1.51/Pro ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 29 Apr 1995 22:21:05 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Dave Green, Eastern Pollinator Newsletter" Subject: PreFIFRA Time Warp - Reposted This is a post, I think of interest to the Bee List. This is the latest in a thread that occurred after I enquired about whether the Boll Weevil Eradication Program applicators were monitoring for foraging bees, and following the label directions. If you want more of the thread, you can get it from alt.agriculture.misc. It's called more of boll weevil eradication. gcouger@jsun.okstate.edu (Gordon Couger) wrote: >If I were a bee keeper I would develop a good working realation with the spary applicators and give them a call frequently on what they expect to spray in the near future. Went spraying starts give them a call late in the afternoon on their targets for the next day and keep the bees in the hive in those areas. >If you aren't a horses ass about it they aren't likely to be either. All applicators I have met are concerned about their public image and incidental damage to other. >Boll Weevil eradications programs should reduce the number of sprayings of cotton when bees are in the cotton patch. YOU GOTTA BE KIDDING! (And you didn't read my letter either!) If you were a beekeeper, you wouldn't be proposing ridiculous ideas like penning up bees in 95 degree weather, when cotton blooms You expect me to go out to a DOZEN different locations every day during cotton bloom (some 75 or 100 miles apart), arriving before daybreak, confine the bees and risk suffocating or overheating, so someone can spray in violation of label instructions. I cannot be in complicity on pesticide misuse, and I resent the implication that I might be a horse's behind, if I insist that the applicators obey the law. I hope you are not in a position where you are recommending pesticide use, because, in this case you are substituting an unworkable pre-FIFRA "solution" that circumvents compliance with pesticide labels, ie. you are recommending pesticide misuse, itself a violation in most states. Hmph. I've lost easily $100,000 from other people's illegal actions, and I'm called names for insisting that they obey the law. You are caught in a pre-FIFRA time warp, and you need to step into the real world. The label directions indicate that it is the applicator's responsibility to protect the bees, by not applying when bees are foraging. If he obeys this law carefully, the bees are well protected; if he does not, they are not safe anywhere. Your "solution" to avoid compliance with labels, by shifting the protection to beekeepers, means that only pollinators with a human defender will be protected, and this kind of advice from official sources is a seizure of the beekeepers' (very limited) assets and labors. Is this the official line at Oklahoma State? The applicator has chosen to use an environmentally hazardous material, and it is his job to do so in a manner which protects environmental resources, including pollinators, by following label instructions. Oklahoma State should have informative materials for applicators (does it?) on how to monitor to determine when bees are foraging in cotton. Application without monitoring is certainly negligent, and possibly wilful (criminal). I understand that boll weevil program should reduce the total number of sprays; however one spray in violation can take the profit entirely for the season, and leave the beekeeper in a position of salvage and recovery of losses. In areas where I was hit last year, I had to put two, and even in some cases, three hives together in the fall, in order to make one hive that had a chance of surviving the winter. I try very hard not to be a horse's behind, though I have met some applicators who fit the description. I stick closely to the law, which is the label directions for each material used. I don't threaten, curse, or abuse anyone, but some applicators sure have done this to me, usually after they have poisoned my livestock). I will repost this to some other lists, because I think beekeepers, especially Oklahoma beekeepers, and others interested in pesticides and pesticide misuse, should be aware of what's going on with the cotton people in their university. BTW, I am not anti-pesticides. -Just MISused pesticides. -Use in violation of label directions. Pollinator@aol.com Dave Green ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 30 Apr 1995 12:38:28 +0200 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ivo Jakop Subject: varoa removing without use of pesticides US Magazin Science published in 1989 a report prepared by a french scientist group working in Labs for neurobiology in Bures-sur-Yvette. As explained in the report they use Ethylpalmitat and Methyllinolenat as active substances to allure varoa into a trap and subsequently eliminate them from the hive. The cheap and undengerous (for bees and human) substance, its uncomplicated application looked very attractive and promissing. Since then I never heared any further news on development of this approach to get ride of varoa.Does somebody of the BEELIST community has perhaps more up-to-dayt or fresh info? Ivo Jakop, Celje, Rep.of Slovenia ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 30 Apr 1995 11:42:49 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Eric Abell Subject: Re: Where am I? In-Reply-To: > > So far (pretty much in the order received): > > Columbia > Belgium > New Zealand > Brazil > Northern Ireland > England Israel > > Canada > Alberta > Prince Edward Island > New Brunswick > Manitoba > Ontario > > USA Virginia > California > Georgia > Oregon > Minnesota > Kentucky > New Hampshire > Florida > Washington > Texas > Wisconsin Pennsylvania Indiana Hawaii South Carolina > > > If you are from a country state or province not on this list, you can send > me a note and it will be added. It is probably best if you send the > message as a personal message rather than to the entire list. > This is just a list for interest. Don't worry about any other motives. > > Eric Abell email: eabell@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca > Gibbons, AB, T0A 1N0 > Canada > (403) 998 3143 > > ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 30 Apr 1995 22:55:22 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Gordon D. Hayes" Subject: Re: PreFIFRA Time Warp - Reposted > BTW, I am not anti-pesticides. -Just MISused pesticides. -Use in >violation of label directions. > >Pollinator@aol.com Dave Green > I read your post to Kelly Rosenlund also on this line of pollination for hire. I might add that I could have rented to a migrant grower the other day. But I did not because of his insistance on using pesticides. I might check into our state laws on pesticide misuse. I was not able to provide all the bees by myself. So I told the man that I could probably get several area beekeepers to pool together and supply the bees he needed for his 300+ acres of melons. I, like the new pollinator in your other message, saw dollar signs. At first they were coming into my account. Then, after I heard about his excessive abuse of pesticide and lack of concern for anyones finances but his own, I say the dollar sings going out of my account. I'm just glad that several of the area growers that I rent to cared enough about this newbie to warn him. BTW--I recently was sent some info on crop pollination by Wayne Buhler of Purdue University (now retired). I believe he obtained it from Tom Eisle (sp?) One of the articles was a partial article by some guy named David Green. :) What was there was interesting. This has already been a very interesting year for us. When it is warm enough to work the bees, it is usually raining or the fields are too muddy. And then my queens didn't materialize. The breeder told us that high winds kept the queens from breeding. He first offered to send us virgin queens now and replace them later with mated queens. He called back and said that Dr. Sugimoto (sp?) informed him that virgin queens would not work easily with nucs. He then offered to send us queen cells. But I had to meet the plane in Indianapolis which was not an option with our schedule. This left two options. He could ship the queens when they became available sometime after the first week of May. Or we could get a refund for the queens and buy elsewhere. The bees were already on the verge of swarming (very prolific Yugos) so I opted for the refund. Since I have a low cash flow and since bee breeders have been stilted before, I had to wait until I could confirm that the refund was on the way. I got my bees ordered and they are supposed to be in about the middle of the first week of May. Back to where I was originally. Geez! If it hadn't been for the blasted rainy and extraordinarily early sring here in southern IN. I could have made my splits and let the bees produce their own queens. Even though they would be of somewhat uncertain genetics. I consider myself lucky to even get queens this late in the year and on such short notice (I have Walter T. Kelly Co. and their queen breeders to thank for that). One thing I have learned already if you are going to rent bees out for pollination. You are going to have to make quite a few split second decisions. And some of them are gong to be WRONG! I will leave on a couple of good notes though. I have several hives on blueberries this spring. With the fact that they were already strong hives and the prolific blooms on the blueberries, I had a hive to swarm the other day (waiting on my queens). But the wide and I were there when the event took place. She went back to the car for some reason. But the swarm landed on the tire of the wagon directly under the hive they had issued from. I happened to have an extra hive with foundation with us for some reason. And I caught it. And then there is the swarm that came to me. Seems they liked the empty boxes I had stacked up on the back porch. Plan on relocating them to the watermelon fields on Monday. I had to thank God for both of them. To a bountiful harvest! gdhayes@evansville.net gordon.hayes@gccbbs.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 30 Apr 1995 17:06:35 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Michael Moroney Subject: Re: Is this a case of balling? In-Reply-To: <199504271532.AA06660@world.std.com> > Next I saw what I thought at first was some more burr comb with bees on > it but it turned out to be a golf ball size cluster of bees. I was > probing them with my finger trying to see if they were on more burr > comb when I realized it might be a 'ball'. They were _tightly_ packed, and > after some careful prodding with my finger the queen ran out! I watched as > she moved along the frame and the other workers reaction to her. The bees > in the 'ball' continued where they were and the queen soon had a number > of new workers crawling on her again (not as bad as before). It does sound like balling. The beginner bee books I have read say do not disturb newly packaged bees for a week to 10 days (depending on the book) else the bees may reject the queen and ball her. I guess the 4 days isn't quite enough. I don't know about the bees playing "see how many bees can fit into a queen cage" but a guess is it may also have been an attempt at "balling the queen" and the bees were attracted by the odor of the queen in the cage, where she recently spent so much time. -Mike