========================================================================= Date: Mon, 1 May 1995 11:45:47 +0200 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Wilhelm Bos Subject: Re: Beenet Europe adress change dear Bee-L friends, A change in adress has occurred for the European Beenet The old adress ( Hugo.Veerkamp@f28.n2801.z2.fidonet.org) is NO LONGER VALID, since routing & gating of our email via fidonet has been interrupted by a money hungry member of fidonet Holland. We are exploring possibilities to get connected again, and in the meantime I shall be using the adress in the signature below( courtesy of a dutch government organisation) sincerely, Hugo -- \|/ @ @ Hugo Veerkamp ----------oOO-(_)-OOo--------------------------------------------- | reply to: BEENET INTERNATIONAL | |w. bos@voeding.tno.nl | mail : the Bee bbs | | PLEASE MARK YOUR REPLY CLEARLY WITH: | P.O. BOX 51008 | | 'To Hugo Veerkamp' | 1007EA AMSTERDAM | |(or your reply gets lost in bit heaven)| The Netherlands | | Beenet : 240:31/0 | modem: +31 20 6764105 | | Fidonet: 2:2801/28 | voice: +31 20 6715663 | ------------------------------------------------------------------ Wilhelm Bos E-mail: W.Bos@Voeding.tno.nl TNO Voeding Afd. Bioprocessing en Biomonitoring Utrechtseweg 48 Fax: 03404-54186 3704 HE Zeist Tel: 03404-44977 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 28 Apr 1995 23:13:43 BSC Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Vagner Toledo Organization: FUEM/Fundacao Universidade Estadual de Maringa - Parana - Brasil. Subject: where are you? I am in Maringa, Parana, Brazil... In the South part of the Brazil. Regards, Vagner Toledo bye ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Univ. Est. Maringa - DZO Vagner Toledo Colombo Av., 5790 e-mail: vgtoledo@brfuem.bitnet 87020-900 Maringa - Pr - Brazil tel. (044) 2262727 R.348 fax. 00-55-044-2222754 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 28 Apr 1995 23:20:55 BSC Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Luciano da Rocha Ribeiro Organization: FUEM/Fundacao Universidade Estadual de Maringa - Parana - Brasil. Subject: Re: Where are you ? Hello, I'm a ZOOTECHNIA student, and I am in Maringa, Parana State, in BRAZIL (noth of the south of Brazil). Luciano. ./ Luciano da Rocha Ribeiro /------. ...,// (_==!!==_) ======= E-MAIL : LRIBEIRO AT BRFUEM.BITNET ( )._/ < > < Universidade Estadual de Maringa' I ._/ ( ) Nucleo de Processamento de Dados I I ( ) Av. Colombo, 5790 - CEP 87020-900 (____________) V Maringa' - Parana' - B R A S I L ... CHEGA MAIS PRO MATE TCHE .... ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 1 May 1995 07:54:49 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Logan Vanleigh Subject: Re: Pollination Business I'm no expert, but it all looks like good advice. If you get tired of uploading, please reflect on the fact that you help a lot of us who never reply. Thanks. >I may be a slow learner, but I still don't have my PhD in the >Univesity of the Seat of the Pants. I'm also studying hard at this prestigious institution. Do you happen to have a logo from them. If not, I'll hit up a friend to develop one. Logan VanLeigh ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 1 May 1995 09:49:29 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Mick Youther Subject: hiving packaged bees I hived a 3 lb. package of Italians 7 days ago. I need to check to see if the queen is laying, but the weather is rainy and in the low-mid 50's today. Should I go ahead and check? It is supposed to be highs in the 50's the next few days. I need to find out what's going on, and whether I need another queen, but I don't want to hurt the hive. Any advice? Mick Youther In the Beautiful Shawnee Hills of Southern Illinois ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 1 May 1995 08:00:25 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Eric Abell Subject: Re: Where am I? In-Reply-To: > > > > So far (pretty much in the order received): > > > > Columbia > > Belgium > > New Zealand > > Brazil > > Northern Ireland > > England > Israel > > > > > Canada > > Alberta > > Prince Edward Island > > New Brunswick > > Manitoba > > Ontario > > > > USA Virginia > > California > > Georgia > > Oregon > > Minnesota > > Kentucky > > New Hampshire > > Florida > > Washington > > Texas > > Wisconsin > Pennsylvania > Indiana > Hawaii > South Carolina Nebraska Kansas New York Tennessee > > > > > > If you are from a country state or province not on this list, you can send > > me a note and it will be added. It is probably best if you send the > > message as a personal message rather than to the entire list. > > > This is just a list for interest. Don't worry about any other motives. > > > > > Eric Abell email: eabell@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca > > Gibbons, AB, T0A 1N0 > > Canada > > (403) 998 3143 > > > > > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 1 May 1995 10:46:45 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Dave Green, Eastern Pollinator Newsletter" Subject: Re: PreFIFRA Time Warp - Again gdhayes@EVANSVILLE.NET (Gordon D. Hayes) says: >I might add that I could have rented to a migrant grower the other day. But I did not because of his insistance on using pesticides. It sounds like there is more story here, so this may not apply, but I do want to comment in general on the above sentence. Many beekeepers are extremely hostile to pesticides. After having been burnt many times by their misuse, we don't always understand that it is MIS-use, not use that hurts the bees. So some beekeepers try to demand that growers not use pesticides. That is no more fair, than the grower who insists that WE *protect* the bees. The grower's livelihood is at stake when pests get to munching, so he must spray. We cannot stop him and have no right to try. But we can insist that he use the pesticide properly, as required by law. Let me explain what I mean by *required by law.* Each pesticide is different, acting in different manner. Some kill on contact, some are stomach poisons, some are slow acting, leaving long lasting residues, others are only active for minutes, killing quickly, but then dissapating or breaking down. Because each is different, each has different hazards. The testing and legalization process for a pesticide is a long process, which establishes the hazards of use, and a specific label is designed for each material. Beekeepers are only in danger from those which have bee protection instruct ions on the label. This eliminates worry over weed killers, fungicides, growth regulators, etc. Only insecticides have bee label directions, and then only those which have demonstrated a hazard. It is misuse of a pesticide to use it in violation of directions. Therefore the law is actually a bit different for each material. Many materials direct not to apply when bees are foraging in the application area. It is the bee as she forages that is in danger. You are very unlikely to have any damage because a plane sprayed your hives; in fact the pesticide laws do not protect the hive, though other laws, will, of course. What is your concern, and should be the grower's, is when the bee is foraging in the application area. If there is no bloom in that area, the dire ctions do not apply, because bees will not be foraging. A tobacco grower called me once and was real upset; said he had to spray his tobacco (aerial), and I had bees in the woods beside the field. I asked him if there was bloom in the tobacco. He said. "Of course not! We HAVE to top the tobacco." I replied: " Well, if there's no bloom, the bees cannot be foraging there, so don't worry about it." No damage was sustained. The chemical was Orthene, which does have bee directions, but they didn't apply, with no bees foraging. Sometimes there is no bloom in the crop to be sprayed, but there are weeds. We've been hit from mustard in wheat, goldenrod in corn, and clover in orchards. In each case it was a violation, as bees were foraging. It doesn't matter if it is the crop, or if it is weeds; the key is, are bees foraging. We need to teach applicators how to tell when bees are foraging. Monitor hives are a good tool, and I have made offers for years to provide free monitor hives for applicators. It is even more so, the job of extension to teach applicators when bees will be foraging. Our SC extension continues to tell growers to notify beekeepers, (so they can circumvent compliance with label directions), and it may take legal action to get them up to date. None of the bee protection advice mentioned in our extension materials even mentions the label directions which have to be obeyed. Every time they tell growers they can demand that I "protect" the bees they are putting me in an impossible situation, and they are seizing my property - a violation of the 5th ammendment. The next generation will need bees. My hives aren't usually killed outright, but the profit is gone to salvage costs. I told our state bee man, that his resolute action on this could make him a hero to the next generation. One of our vector control (mosquito) county directors just sent me a certified letter demanding that I give him all my locations, so he could notify me when they are going to spray. He has by this means, declared his intention to use the material without regard to label directions, as I told him they would be sufficiently protected if he followed them. He also has declared his intent to ignore the directions for all bees which do not have a human defender. I see a criminal case here - wilful misuse is a criminal offense. I decline to participate in a scheme to avoid compliance with label directi ons, that would mean I am in complicity. I will offer him a monitor hive free of charge. If he delines, then it is time for a Neighborhood Watch, and bringing of charges. I have a flow chart, which I will send on to anyone for SASE. This is a compilation of bee protection methods, based on label directions. It is not legal advice; it is common sense reading of the clear directions; and any idiot could do it. In one state, extension published a copy of it. I wish they all would. We must always be clear in all our dealings that we are talking about misuse, not use of pesticides. We understand the necessary role of pesticides in agriculture, beekeepers have to have them, too. But we also must bring to justice those who misuse them, or the problem will never stop. Pollinator@aol.com Dave Green Dave's Pollination Service & Eastern Pollinator Newsletter PO Box 1215, Hemingway, SC 29554 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 1 May 1995 02:01:55 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Moote, John M." Subject: Re: hiving packaged bees Mike wrote: >SUBJECT: hiving packaged bees >I hived a 3 lb. package of Italians 7 days ago. I need to check to see if >the queen is laying, but the weather is rainy and in the low-mid 50's today. >Should I go ahead and check? It is supposed to be highs in the 50's the next >few days. I need to find out what's going on, and whether I need another >queen, but I don't want to hurt the hive. Any advice? >Mick Youther >In the Beautiful Shawnee Hills >of Southern Illinois Mike - I started out this year, too, and I treated with Terramycin at 0, 5 and 12 days (0,4, 8 were preferred , but the weather didn't cooperate), so I needed to go into the hive at these times. I didn't see much. At day 12, I think the queen just started laying. I must have had some larva but I really couldn't see them very well. With the cool weather, I didn't want to keep the frames out more than 20 to 30 secs. Another problem, I understand, is "balling" the queen with early inspections. The workers will kill her sometimes when inspections precede day 10. Luckily this didn't happen to me, although the day 5 treatment with Terra was just that; open sprinkle and close. Last Saturday's inspection, at day 19 showed capped brood (finally). I only inspect when the weather is above 55F and the bees are relatively active at the entrance. Pure observation at the hive entrance also seemed even better than pulling the hive apart. If the workers are taking sugar syrup, bringing in pollen (especially) at the rate of one to every six or so workers and seem generally in "good spirits", I wouldn't worry. My recommendation is to wait a while and inspect next week unless you really suspect that something happened to the queen. John Moote Mootejm@BASF-Corp.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 1 May 1995 11:12:00 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Michael Blankenstein Subject: Canned Bee Smoke Suppliers? Could someone send me the names and phone numbers of companies that might have canned bee smoke? Thanks in advance... Michael Blankenstein Virginia ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 1 May 1995 19:08:00 +0200 Reply-To: DURK ELLISON Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: DURK ELLISON Organization: Metropoli, Finland Subject: Internet costs EUROPE > Subj: Re: Beenet Europe address change > Read: NO Status: RECEIVER ONLY > dear Bee-L friends, > A change in address has occurred for the European Beenet > The old address ( Hugo.Veerkamp@f28.n2801.z2.fidonet.org) > is NO LONGER VALID, since routing & gating of our > email via fidonet has been interrupted by a money hungry > member of fidonet Holland. We are exploring possibilities > to get connected again, and in the meantime I shall be using > the address in the signature below( courtesy of a dutch government > organization) > sincerely, Hugo > -- \|/ @ @ Hugo Veerkamp > ----------oOO-(_)-OOo--------------------------------------------- > | reply to: BEENET INTERNATIONAL | > |w. bos@voeding.tno.nl | mail : the Bee bbs | > | PLEASE MARK YOUR REPLY CLEARLY WITH: | P.O. BOX 51008 | > | 'To Hugo Veerkamp' | 1007EA AMSTERDAM | > |(or your reply gets lost in bit heaven)| The Netherlands | > | Beenet : 240:31/0 | modem: +31 20 6764105 | > | Fidonet: 2:2801/28 | voice: +31 20 6715663 | > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > Wilhelm Bos E-mail: W.Bos@Voeding.tno.nl > TNO Voeding > Afd. Bioprocessing en Biomonitoring > Utrechtseweg 48 Fax: 03404-54186 > 3704 HE Zeist Tel: 03404-44977 My comments: Access to the internet has become a very commercial activity here in europe. Official access for private persons here in Finland start at approximately 100 USD a month plus an extra per minute fee. If you wish to subscribe to a conference like BEE-L it's an extra 50 USD per month per conference. At least it's down from last year, then it was 450 USD. The reason I say "official" is because several BBS systems, mostly run by students who have hooked up with their schools host computers to provide their users with internet access at a more reasonable fee, are providing "un-official access". The terms "official" and "un-official" are from a conversation I had a few weeks ago with a representative of the telephone company here, during a presentation they where giving on their internet and www service. I asked him how they planned to compete with the less expensive competition. His answer was "There won't be any. These people who are currently abusing their their privileges will be found and shut down". So it's not surprising to look at a subscriber list such as the BEE-L list, and see that most addresses, outside the US, Canada and England, reference government and university servers. How ever the information generated by these internet beekeeping areas is considered so enlightening and informative that to restrict it to only a few (450 "rich :-)" subscribers) would be (in my opinion) a shame. In an effort to get these ideas, information and accumulated knowledge to the people who have the greatest use of it, the average Beekeeper. Although I have yet to meet a beekeeper who considered himself average :-)). BeeNet (Europe) maintains read only (some day I hope read/write) BEE-L, sci.ag.beekeeping and bombus conference areas. With the thankful permission of the internet area hosts. Who sponcers BEENET ?? Mainly the BeeNet Sysops. Durk Ellison OH2ZAS BeeNet: 240:2358/100 email: durk.ellison@pcb.mpoli.fi ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 1 May 1995 13:38:13 GMT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: MEMO 1995/05/01 13:38:51 From: Mihaly Ligmond Subject: Capturing a Swarm To: PCCSSW.MAILER SSW[PCCSSW.MAILER] From: Mihaly Ligmond@SEA.LAB@FDAORAPAR Subject: Capturing a Swarm Date: Monday, May 1, 1995 at 1:38:51 pm EDT Attach: Certify: N ---------------------------- [Message Follows] --------------------------------- Im a small amateur beekeeper and on Saturday one of my hives swarmed. It landed about 12feet high in a neighbors tree. I and a friend of mine got a ladder and I climbed up empty hive in hand to retrieve the swarm. I held the hive under the cluster and with a gloved hand scooped the bulk of it into the box. On the way down I dropped the box. ANGRY BEES EVERYWHERE! I then reassembled the hive with some bees still in it and placed it nearby. The remaining had reformed their cluster on the tree. The next day the bees on the tree moved into the hive with the others,WOW. Two questions is this behavior normal (the bees, not mine) and is there a better way of catching and hiving a swarm? By the way thankx to those who answered my questions re stinging queens and toxic honey. Mihaly,Monroe WA (mligmond@fdaem.ssw.dhhs.gov) ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 1 May 1995 14:49:06 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Diana Sammataro Subject: Re: Africanized bee mites In-Reply-To: <199504290011.UAA14824@postbox.acs.ohio-state.edu> from "Ademilson Espencer Egea Soares" at Apr 28, 95 09:10:10 pm > > I'm in Ribeirao Preto, Sao Paulo State in Brazil. I live near of the > place where was introduced the African bees, by Dr. Warwick E.Kerr in > 1956. I work at USP (Sao Paulo University) in a research center. If you > need any information about africanized honeybees, please send your > letter for: Ademilson Espencer Egea Soares > Departamento de Genetica > Faculdade de Medicina de Ribeirao Preto - USP > 14.049-900 Ribeirao Preto - SP - Brazil > > Fax: 016-6330069 > E-mail: aeesoare@frmp.usp.br Sr. Soares: I have tried to use your email three times and it has bounced back. Apologies to the bee net, but I figured this was the only way to get a reply from you. I read with interest your note about africanized bees and since I am studying the tracheal mite in bees, was wondering if the bees there have tracheal mites? If they do, could I get hold of some? I am doing DNA analysis of tracheal mites to get a geographical distribution of strains, if they exist. If you can send me some mites or bees in alcohol, I would be greatful. If the history fo the queen is known, that would be useful information. One or two hives with high levels of mites is wonderful, if you know they have them. Thank you in advnace for your help. Diana Sammataro Department of Entomology The Ohio State University 1735 Neil Ave., 105 Botany & Zoology Bldg. Columbus, OH 43210-1220 Phone: (614) 292-9089, Fax: (614) 292-2180 Email: dsammata@magnus.acs. ohio-state.edu ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 1 May 1995 13:34:24 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Subject: Re: Capturing a Swarm In-Reply-To: <9505011758.AA22232@cuugnet.cuug.ab.ca> On Mon, 1 May 1995, Mihaly Ligmond wrote: > Im a small amateur beekeeper and on Saturday one of my hives swarmed. It > landed about 12feet high in a neighbors tree. I and a friend of mine got a > ladder and I climbed up empty hive in hand to retrieve the swarm. I held the I prefer a carboard box with flaps that can be closed for such a climb. Light, cheap, empty, and handy. When the swarm is in the box, close the flaps and climb down. Don't keep the box closed too long for fear of suffocating, but a light tap on the ground will drop all the bees to the bottom long enough to put a screen from a window or some such over top so you can wait til dusk to dump them into their new home. Hiving a swarm at dusk increases the chances of their staying. A small patch of open brood on a single frame taken from a hive and placed in the waiting box along with other comb just before hiving will virtually assure you they won't just leave in the morning. Allen W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper VE6CFK Rural Route One Swalwell Alberta Canada T0M 1Y0 Email: dicka@cuug.ab.ca or allend@internode.net Virtual Art Gallery: http://www.cuug.ab.ca:8001/~dicka __________________Why not drop by?____________________ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 1 May 1995 15:26:31 +0100 Reply-To: IBRA@cardiff.ac.uk Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Dr Pamela Munn Subject: B.mail - May 1995 Comments: To: socinsct@albnyvm1.BITNET, "hugo.veerkamp" , polpal-l@uoguelph.ca ===================================================== B-MAIL A monthly newsletter on issues and events in the bee world, provided by IBRA, the world information service for bee science and beekeeping. >From Andrew Matheson, Director **May 1995** ===================================================== CONSERVING EUROPE'S BEES We had over 100 people at the scientific symposium of that name, organized by IBRA and the Linnean Society of London and supported by the European Commission DG12. The gathering was characterized by a high standard of presentations, both oral and poster papers, eager discussion (it was very hard to close up the coffee breaks!), and a good spirit of collaboration. There will be a full review of the symposium by Rob Paxton in the next Bee World, and early 1996 will see a book on bee conservation published by IBRA, the Linnean Society and Academic Press. BUT WHICH HABITATS? Yes, we're all getting switched on to realising that bees need conserving, and that conserving habitats is the key to protecting nesting sites and food sources. But is conserving habitats simply a matter of protecting land from human interference? Locking land up is good for some conservation purposes, but for bee species the matter isn't that simple. The session at our meeting on 'Habitats for bees', convened by Paul Westrich, threw some light on this. Paul discussed the concept of partial habitats, making the point that nest sites, pollen sources and building materials must be available in combination within the home range of a female. Some types of habitat such as moors, heaths, inland dunes or unimproved meadows actually contain all the resources a female needs for reproduction and the home range of the bee does not exceed the habitat boundaries. Therefore conservation and management of these habitat types are effective means to protect the species inhabiting them. But the entire habitat complex of a bee species very often consists of several partial habitats, especially when each partial habitat contains only one of the required resources. The nest site can lie several hundred metres away from the foraging site and a completely different type of habitat not used by the bee can divide them. Typical partial habitats are cliffs, unstable slopes or rocks (nesting sites) and ruderal places or fens (pollen collecting sites). Intensive land use very often leads to the destruction of one partial habitat and thus to the loss of either the nesting or the foraging site. As a consequence the bee population depending on the resource provided by this partial habitat is extinguished. Therefore protecting bees in many cases requires more than conserving just one single site. It must always give special attention to the whole range of activity and all the resources a given species' needs. A fascinating example of how urban areas can provide important habitats for bees was given by Chris Saure. I found this particularly interesting partly because I love Berlin, but also because of the interplay between political events and the natural habitats. A big surprise to many first-time visitors is how green Berlin is (and how flat; it has more canals than Venice). Within Berlin 262 bee species have so far been recorded; this comparatively high number is due to the favourable conditions of the local climate, the light and sandy soil and the large number of different habitat types. Berlin has many disturbed areas and ruderal places like disused railways, abandoned airports, heaps of rubble, roadsides and sand pits. Ruderal areas are places which have been disturbed by human intervention, but which are currently undisturbed or abandoned. For bees these are most beneficial in their early years, but as the habitats move towards supporting a climax community fewer nest sites and food resources are provided for bees. The fascinating thing about Berlin is that the dates can be determined very accurately for when land (such as railway lines) became unused, making the sequence of recolonization by plants and animals easier to study. Ruderal areas can function as refugia and centres of dispersal for many species and as stepping stones in the habitat network. These urban habitats merit much more protection. But in the last few years many valuable ruderal areas in Berlin have been destroyed by building houses and industrial plants, due to the political and economic changes after German reunification. Saure considers that it is imperative to protect the most important habitats and develop management strategies to maintain the species richness and prevent a further decline. The first nature conservation area is already in the planning stages. HONEY BEES AND NATIVE SPECIES Where honey bees are an introduced species, beekeepers are concerned about possible restrictions on their industry for conservation reasons. Managers of conservation land in some countries are becoming more alert to the possible impact of honey bees on native plant and animal species. One study from New Zealand presented at our bee conservation meeting gave honey bees a relatively clean report. The authors, Vivian Butz Huryn and Henrik Moller of the University of Otago, reported that although honey bees in that country use a taxonomically rich array of native flora only a small proportion of native plants are visited intensively. It seems there is little potential for disruption of specialized plant-pollinator relationships. Introduced weeds are a problem in protected natural areas; do honey bees add to their impact through pollination? Though honey bees visit many (43 percent) of these species, honey bees are probably effective pollinators of few of them. Another area of possible conflict is in the beech honeydew areas, where bees remove much of what is a very rich food source for insects and birds. The most intensive stocking of an area with honey bees could deplete honeydew standing crop by up to 82 percent for brief periods, but average colony densities would cause only a 13 percent decline. Introduced social wasps have been observed causing a decline of as much as 91-99 percent. The biology of New Zealand's 40 or so species of native bees is poorly understood, and any competitive effects of honey bees are not yet known. Only 0.6 percent of managed honey bee colonies in New Zealand are kept in protected natural areas. The Department of Conservation, responsible for managing these areas, has adopted a flexible strategy of allowing beekeeping to continue while reserving the right to exclude if evidence demonstrates a conflict between apiculture and conservation. Butz Huryn and Moller conclude that there is only a limited threat posed to conservation by beekeeping in New Zealand. AND ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE TASMAN This issue is also hot in Australia. David Paton is looking at the effect of honey bees in a national park in South Australia which during winter contains up to 80% of the state's beehives. Despite this high density of honey bees, observations reported in the January 1995 'Australian Beekeeper' showed that after honey bees stopped flying for the day there was still nectar and pollen available. One bird could obtain its daily requirements by visiting only 10 inflorescences (of Banksia spp.) and 100 birds could feed per hectare. It's fair to point out that in winter native bees aren't active. In the next issue of Bee World we will be publishing an excellent review by Evan Sugden, Robbin Thorp and Stephen Buchmann of how beekeeping in Australia has been challenged by concern about competition between honey bees and native bees, and how it has responded to the issues raised. VARROA INVADING BROOD CELLS There has been quite a bit of discussion lately about what triggers varroa to enter a brood cell, and whether any chemical stimuli can be used to lure these mites into a trap instead. Some of the finest work on this subject has been done by a team at Wageningen University in the Netherlands. One member, Willem Boot, has recently published his thesis entitled 'Invasion of varroa mites into honey bee brood cells'; but in the European style this thesis is in fact a collection of research papers that have been published or accepted by peer-reviewed journals. There are nine papers included, four published between 1992 and 1994 and the remaining five in press with different journals. Being from a Dutch university, of course these papers are in English (!). I don't know if copies are available for sale anywhere, but IBRA members can borrow this title from our library. GET TO GLOUCESTER Those of you lucky enough to be in Britain now that spring is here, can make your way to Gloucester on 27 May. IBRA will be holding its annual day with the Gloucester beekeepers and Hartpury College, and a good day will be enjoyed by the large crowd sure to attend. It starts at 1030 at Hartpury College, which is on the A417 between Gloucester and Ledbury. BUMBLE BEES FOR PLEASURE AND PROFIT The registration form is now out for this enjoyable and informative programme. Here it is, and remember that we filled the venue in April for 'Conserving Europe's bees' so it would be wise to register soon. The programme was in last month's B.mail, and can be obtained from IBRA. This meeting will be in London on Saturday 23 September. Print this and post or fax it, or snip it out, fill it in, and e.mail it back to us. Yes, please register me for the IBRA meeting 'Bumble bees for pleasure and profit'. 1. Select your options ......... tickets at 15 pounds each for members of IBRA = ..................pounds (individual members, or up to three delegates per corporate or BKA member) or ......... tickets at 17 pounds each for non-members = ................pounds This price includes participation in all sessions, and tea and coffee. ......... lunches at 8.25 pounds each (must be booked by 8 September ) = ..................pounds The meal will comprise sandwiches, cold buffet, fruit, hot and cold drinks 2. Indicate your payment method My total payment is: ...................pounds ...... Cheque made payable to IBRA (sterling cheques on UK banks only) ...... Credit card Type of card: Number: Expiry date: Name of cardholder: Address if different from that given below: Signature (if you're mailing or faxing this): .....No, unfortunately I will not be able to attend, but please contact me when the book Bumble bees for pleasure and profit is published. 3. Complete your details Name: Address: Mail this to 18 North Road, Cardiff CF1 3DY, UK or fax to (+44) 1222-665522 or e.mail to ibra@cardiff.ac.uk AND ONE MORE MEETING If you're going to be in southern Africa next month, you might like to make it to the conference on 'Bees and agriculture', organized by the Zimbabwe Beekeepers' Council and being held on 17 and 18 June 1995 at the University of Zimbabwe. Contact Athol Desmond, Zimbabwe Beekeepers' Council, PO Box HG255, Highlands, Harare, Zimbabwe. Fax (+263) 4- 490625. WHAT IS IBRA? In response to feedback from a number of you, I am starting an series of snippets which will answer your queries about the International Bee Research Association: the IBRA-FAQ I guess we have to call it now. IBRA is a non-profit trust formed in 1949 and devoted to advancing apicultural education and science worldwide. It works to: * interpret and communicate information on bee science and beekeeping to those who need it. * promote beekeeping as a practical and sustainable form of agriculture for developing countries. * act as a contact point and information exchange on beekeeping for governments, international agencies, research institutes, beekeepers and rural development workers. IBRA' charitable aims have been recognised by the English Charity Commission, so the association is a registered charity under English law. IBRA does not receive core funding from governments or universities; it relies for its income on membership subscriptions, grants, sales and income from services. That means it needs your support for its continued existence. Next month: what does IBRA do? Return address: E.mail: ibra@cardiff.ac.uk Fax: (+44) 1222-665522 Telephone: (+44) 1222-372409 Snailmail: 18 North Road, Cardiff CF1 3DY, UK ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 1 May 1995 13:09:25 PDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jane Beckman Subject: Re: petting bees When I was a teen, I was known as "the girl who picks up bees" because I was always toting around some bumblebee I'd picked up at the local spring. (They would congregate on the mud to get water, and I found that if I put a little water on my finger, I could pick them up and keep them happily lapping up liquid while I toted them around and showed them off to friends. A little sugar-water worked just as well on the honeybees.) Needless to say, I had a bit of a reputation as an eccentric...but aren't all bee folks? ;-) Jane B. [jane@swdc.stratus.com] ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 1 May 1995 18:18:47 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Doug Yanega Subject: Re: petting bees >When I was a teen, I was known as "the girl who picks up bees" because >I was always toting around some bumblebee I'd picked up at the local >spring. (They would congregate on the mud to get water, and I found that >if I put a little water on my finger, I could pick them up and keep them >happily lapping up liquid while I toted them around and showed them off to >friends. A little sugar-water worked just as well on the honeybees.) >Needless to say, I had a bit of a reputation as an eccentric...but aren't >all bee folks? ;-) Another good trick is to learn how to sex bees and wasps on sight, and then grab a male and hold it for folks to admire (or, more usually, retreat in terror). It gives you the opportunity to explain, in dramatic fashion, that males can't sting (just don't try this with Cicada Killers - the males posess a "pseudo-sting" which is quite painful, even if it isn't venomous). It's especially fun to do this with Orchid Bees in the tropics; males (ONLY males) are attracted to volatile oils like menthol, eucalyptol, methyl salicylate, and the like, so just about any mouthwash will do (or menthol or wintergreen breath lozenges), and you can attract and grab these large, brilliant metallic bees, which will occasionally be carrying an orchid pollinium. Doug Yanega Illinois Natural History Survey, 607 E. Peabody Dr. Champaign, IL 61820 USA phone (217) 244-6817, fax (217) 333-4949 "There are some enterprises in which a careful disorderliness is the true method" - Herman Melville, Moby Dick, Chap. 82 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 1 May 1995 20:29:47 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Keith Murray Subject: nuke prices In-Reply-To: <199505011502.AA03501@access.mbnet.mb.ca> Just curious...how much did people pay for nukes and package Bees this spring? We are paying $77 for nukes and $50 for a package of 1 kg + queen. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Keith Murray * Don't worry about people stealing St.Mary's Academy * an idea. If it's original, you 550 Wellington cres. * will have to ram it down their Winnipeg, Manitoba * throats. -H. Aiken ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 1 May 1995 20:50:32 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "La Reine de la Cite' des Phoques (Liz Day)" Subject: Re: petting bees You can also learn to recognize robber-fly bumblebees mimics, then hold them and everyone around you will be absolutely convinced it's a bee no matter what you tell them. ! Liz day ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 1 May 1995 23:44:47 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Brian K. Cooley" I would like to subscribe. We would not know what we know today if it wasn't for what we knew yesterday.:=) ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 May 1995 10:19:33 +0100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Malcolm Roe Subject: Re: Capturing a Swarm In-Reply-To: from "Mihaly Ligmond" at May 1, 95 01:38:13 pm Mihaly Ligmond asked about catching swarms. Recently I posted the following piece on sci.agriculture.beekeeping in reply to a similar question. Obviously not every bee-l subscriber reads the newsgroup. My apologies to those of you who have seen this already. (Someone told me that the word secateurs - pruning shears - would not be understood by Americans, by whom they are known as clippers.) ======================================================================= When bees swarm the queen and up to half the colony leave the hive and settle at a temporary location nearby. It can be in a hedge, on the branch of a tree, on a fence or wherever the queen alights. The swarm may remain there for just a brief time or as long as a couple of days whilst scout bees search for a new home. This is the time to catch the swarm. Once it's established in a permanent home removal usually becomes much more difficult and won't be considered here. When you set off to catch a swarm you should take the following things with you:- o A large, strong cardboard box. (About the same volume as a brood box.) o An old bed sheet, table cloth or something similar. o 5 bricks or other weights. o Secateurs. o A sharp knife. o A pruning saw. o Some string. o A bee brush. o Protective clothing. o A smoker, fuel and matches. You may also need a ladder. If someone else has called you out, try to discover before you set off whether you're likely to need a ladder and, if so, whether you can borrow one nearby. Once you've located the swarm you must assess the situation. Before starting ensure that it's been settled for some time. It should be quite quiet with bees tunnelling in and out of the cluster. There will also be some flying bees both coming and going. You should work out what method you intend to use to catch the swarm. You may be fortunate with the whole swarm hanging from a single branch at a convenient height. Usually things are more complicated. If the swarm is high up or, for some other reason, inaccessible you should consider carefully whether to attempt to catch it at all. It's not worth breaking your neck for a swarm of bees. Sometimes, if the swarm is in a bush or tree it may be necessary to remove some of the branches. This will be described in more detail later. If this is the case make sure the owner understands and has given his or her permission. Place the sheet on the ground near to the swarm. Put a brick on each corner to prevent it blowing about in the wind. Put the fifth brick in the middle. This will be used later to prop up the box. Bees that have just swarmed are usually remarkably good tempered but it's still very advisable to wear protective clothing, particularly if you need to use a ladder. Let's consider the easiest situation first. The swarm's hanging from a flexible branch with no other obstructions nearby. All you need to do is hold the box underneath the swarm, as close as possible, and give the branch a sharp jerk followed by a few vigorous shakes. Most of the bees should fall in but, if a fair number remain, you can follow up with the bee brush. However, don't waste too much time on this. All you're trying to do is get the queen and the majority of bees into the box. The rest will follow later. An alternative is to smoke the remaining bees heavily to make them fly, after which they'll probably be attracted to the rest of the bees already in the box. If the branch is too rigid or the swarm's hanging from a fence or building you can just use the brush but, if there's sufficient space, a better method is to support the box, opening downwards, as close as possible above the swarm. Bees have an instinct to move upwards into the dark. If you start them off by applying a little smoke they should all move up quite quickly. Otherwise you can encourage them by taking a handful of bees and throwing them into the box first. If the swarm is in dense vegetation you may have to gently cut some of it away to give yourself sufficient room to get the box in place. Sometimes the pieces you remove will be covered with bees. They can just be shaken off into the box. There are many other possibilities, fortunately most of them rare. Swarms can choose the most inconvenient places to settle. The best advice in these circumstances is just to use your own initiative. You may have to perform one of the above manoeuvres well above ground level, such as up a ladder or standing on a branch in a tree. If so, take particular care. The first time you catch a swarm you'll be surprised just how heavy it is as it drops into the box. There are about 8000 bees to a kilogram (3500 to a pound). A swarm can weigh as much as 5kg (10lb). You really need three arms: one to support the box, one to shake or brush the bees and one to hold on. If, like me, you're only endowed with two arms you'll have to find some other way! Often you can hold the box between your body and another branch or, maybe, use one of your knees. Once the bees are in the box, take it down, gently turn it over so that the opening is downwards and put it in the middle of the sheet with one side propped up on the brick to provide an entrance. Now stand back and watch for a while. What you should see is the worker bees near the entrance start fanning. That is, they'll be standing, head down, wings working and with a small white spot called the Nasonov gland exposed on the last dorsal segment of the abdomen. The scent from this gland will attract the remaining bees that you didn't collect. Within half an hour most of them should have joined the bees in the box. However, if you didn't manage to secure the queen, it won't happen. Instead, the bees will all go back to the original site of the swarm or wherever the queen has ended up. In this case you'll have to wait until the cluster reforms and settles down again before making another attempt. If possible it's best to leave the box until the evening before removing it because, by that time, all the bees will have stopped flying. In the mean time, if the weather is hot, you should try to arrange that the box is shaded from direct sun. When you're ready gently remove the supporting brick and lower the edge of the box to the ground. Take away the other bricks and gather the four corners of the sheet up above the box. Finally, tie some string around the sheet to make a sort of sack preventing any bees from escaping. The box can then be moved just by lifting the "sack". The last thing that needs to be discussed is hiving the swarm. You don't have to do it immediately. The swarm can be left in the box overnight, for example, but if so, you should undo the sheet and prop up the edge of the box to provide ventilation. You'll also find the bees quickly start to build comb in the box so I'd recommend you don't leave them for more than a day. The traditional way to hive a swarm is to put a running in board down in front of the new hive to act as a ramp up to the entrance. The hive should be fitted with foundation and a roof so that it's dark inside. Supers are not needed. Place the box, wrapped in its sheet, at the end of the ramp. Open up the sheet and spread it out over the board up to the entrance, weighting it down with bricks. Then shake the bees out of the box onto the sheet in front of the hive entrance. Before long some of them will find the entrance and start fanning, attracting the rest into the hive. This is a very pretty sight and well worth watching. Keep your eyes open and you may well see the queen going in along with the rest of the bees. This method of hiving is quite slow. It may take several hours for all the bees to enter. There is also a quick method. Just take all the frames out of the hive, put in an entrance block and dump the whole box full of bees into the empty brood chamber by inverting it over the top and giving it a few sharp jerks. (There are bound to be a number of bees left in the box. Don't worry. Just leave it on its side near the entrance and they'll find their own way home.) Next, put the frames back. Don't push them down. Just place them on top of the pile of bees and they'll gradually sink down under their own weight with a little assistance on your part to ensure they settle onto the runners properly. Once all the frames are in place put on the inner cover and roof and remove the entrance block (which was only fitted to avoid the possibility of the queen falling out of the entrance when the bees were shaken in). A few final points. If possible, I would always hive a swarm on foundation rather than old comb. This is because a swarm makes such a good job of drawing it out. There's a lot to be said for feeding a swarm as soon as you've hived it to get it off to a good start. 5 litres (1gal) of strong syrup should be enough unless the weather's very bad. Finally, swarms are normally fairly healthy but, once established, you should inspect and, if necessary, treat for the usual parasites and diseases. -- Malcolm Roe Phone : +44 1442 345104 Crosfield Electronics Ltd Fax : +44 1442 343000 Hemel Hempstead, Herts. HP2 7RH, UK E-mail : roe@crosfield.co.uk ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 May 1995 23:04:48 NZS Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Nick Wallingford Subject: Introduced weeds... >Introduced weeds are a problem in protected natural areas; do honey >bees add to their impact through pollination? Though honey bees visit >many (43 percent) of these species, honey bees are probably effective >pollinators of few of them. New Zealand's Department of Conservation is currently developing a series of management strategies for various areas of the country, suggesting that a 'buffer zone' for honey bee sites established for 2km around the National Park areas (where bee sites are not allowed). I would like to hear of arguments that BeeList readers might consider effective in opposing this attitude. ------------------------------- Nick Wallingford President National Beekeepers Assn of NZ nickw@wave.co.nz ------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 May 1995 06:35:36 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Subject: Re: Capturing a Swarm In-Reply-To: <9505020917.AA20976@cuugnet.cuug.ab.ca> On Tue, 2 May 1995, Malcolm Roe wrote: > Mihaly Ligmond asked about catching swarms. Recently I posted the > following piece on sci.agriculture.beekeeping in reply to a similar > question. Obviously not every bee-l subscriber reads the newsgroup. Reading a USENET group is a matter of dedication -- and chance -- on many providers. On one of mine, articles are expired after 1 1/2 days, meaning that it is very possible to miss an article -- assuming that it arrives at all, because propagation on USENET is quite unpredictable in many areas. On the other hand, lists such as this are reltively quite reliable. You can assume safely that you will get almost every message sent to you unless there is prolonged outage or foobar at your site. Although sci.ag.bee... is right up there in my .newsrc and I'm a news junkie, I haven't seen the article, or for that matter, probably 90% or sci.ag.bee... contents. So thanks for posting your excellent, detailed, and well thought out article to this group as well. Of course, I have a few comments to add: > If possible it's best to leave the box until the evening before > removing it because, by that time, all the bees will have stopped > flying. In the mean time, if the weather is hot, you should try > to arrange that the box is shaded from direct sun. When you're > ready gently remove the supporting brick and lower the edge of > the box to the ground. Take away the other bricks and gather the > four corners of the sheet up above the box. Finally, tie some > string around the sheet to make a sort of sack preventing any > bees from escaping. The box can then be moved just by lifting > the "sack". I have never bothered with a sheet, although it probably will make things a little easier. Window screen is often handy to close the box, and if you get most inside, the stragglers can accumulate outside on the screen with no problems, assuming you doin't want to stand and play with them til dusk. I say this because, every so often, your newly caught swarm will lift off -- if not restrained by screen --and light out for parts unknown leaving you (me?) standing there looking like an idiot. This can happen before or after hiving, and even the next day. If the swarm has a clear idea where it is going, you must resort to trickery to keep it once it is unrestrained -- hence my recommending using a little open brood in the new hive, and a screen on the box until hiving. > The last thing that needs to be discussed is hiving the swarm. > You don't have to do it immediately. The swarm can be left in > the box overnight, Hiving is best done late in the day. > The hive should be fitted with foundation and a roof so that it's > dark inside. Supers are not needed. Some (large) swarms will need a second brood chamber if a box of combs with honey is used instead of foundation. Because foundation does not occupy much space, a large awarm will fit into the box until the foundation is drawn, but they will then need more space because the comb and feed will displace them. See the previous discussion on bee-l about the (un) attractiveness of foundation to swarms. This is not to say it doesn't work 9 out of ten times, but remember to bait the hive if possible with *open* brood for best results. Having said all this, I usually just use good brood comb with feed. Foundation does not travel well, and we do not usually have it handy when we come across a swarm, but I do lose a few a-swarms to absconding. Of course, moving the newly hived swarm about ten miles immediately will usually guarantee that they don't have a nearby alternative home strongly in mind and just leave. I often just take the cardboard box home and hive the swarm there. Most swarms we just shake into any handy brood chamber (or even super) and leave it right on the spot -- and take our chances. > A few final points. If possible, I would always hive a swarm on > foundation rather than old comb. This is because a swarm makes > such a good job of drawing it out. They do a beautiful job, but see above. > There's a lot to be said for > feeding a swarm as soon as you've hived it to get it off to a > good start. 5 litres (1gal) of strong syrup should be enough > unless the weather's very bad. Finally, swarms are normally > fairly healthy but, once established, you should inspect and, if > necessary, treat for the usual parasites and diseases. Amen. W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper VE6CFK Rural Route One Swalwell Alberta Canada T0M 1Y0 Email: dicka@cuug.ab.ca or allend@internode.net Virtual Art Gallery: http://www.cuug.ab.ca:8001/~dicka __________________Why not drop by?____________________ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 May 1995 05:00:00 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Keith Cutting Subject: Re: nuke prices Comments: To: Keith Murray 3 pound package /w queen plus shipping $38.00 nukes are $45 to $48 4 frames, local suppliers ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 May 1995 06:46:35 PDT Reply-To: "W. Allen Dick" Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "W. Allen Dick" Subject: NHB Database I'd like to remind everyone that The National Honey Board Database can be accessed from my home page at http://www.cuug.ab.ca:8001/~dicka This, of course is on the Web, and requires use of a brouser. There has been one report that it gives a 404 error. I have never experienced this even tho' I've ytried it from several ISP's. Please report any problems or comment to me at the address below. W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper VE 6CFK Rural Route One, Swalwell, Alberta, Canada T0M 1Y0 Email: dicka@cuug.ab.ca or allend@internode.net Virtual art gallery: http:// www.cuug.ab.ca:8001/~dicka ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 May 1995 13:29:44 GMT Reply-To: Gordon@apis.demon.co.uk Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Gordon L. Scott" Subject: Re: PreFIFRA Time Warp - Again Dave Green writes: [lots of stuff omitted] > Sometimes there is no bloom in the crop to be sprayed, but there are > weeds. We've been hit from mustard in wheat, goldenrod in corn, and clover > in orchards. In each case it was a violation, as bees were foraging. It > doesn't matter if it is the crop, or if it is weeds; the key is, are bees > foraging. Also, aphids, because bees will sometimes work *them* for 'honeydew'. This can be a particularly problem because if it's worth the bees while to work them, the aphids are probably the target pest. Incidently, A problem we've had here recently is the local water supplier treating the _drinking_water_supply_ with pesticide in the spring & autumn (fall) -- just when we're feeding syrup. Now they know it's a problem, at least they tell us they're going to do it. > Monitor hives are a good tool, and I have made offers for years to provide > free monitor hives for applicators. How do you use these please? > One of our vector control (mosquito) county directors just sent me a > certified letter demanding that I give him all my locations, so he could > notify me when they are going to spray. He has by this means, declared his > intention to use the material without regard to label directions, as I told > him they would be sufficiently protected if he followed them. Could he possibly be trying to protect both you and he from mistakes? I guess that mosquito spraying is mostly in water & boggy areas where it will probably be impossible to totally avoid bee forage. Of course I may be being naive here! > We must always be clear in all our dealings that we are talking about > misuse, not use of pesticides. We understand the necessary role of > pesticides in agriculture, beekeepers have to have them, too. But we also > must bring to justice those who misuse them, or the problem will never stop. And I'd like to get them on *our* side if possible. They need us and they're *starting* to realise how much. Regards, -- Gordon Scott Gordon@apis.demon.co.uk Compuserve 100332,3310 Gordon@multitone.co.uk Basingstoke Beekeeper Beekeeper@apis.demon.co.uk ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 May 1995 13:57:15 GMT Reply-To: Gordon@apis.demon.co.uk Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Gordon L. Scott" Subject: Re: Internet costs EUROPE durk.ellison@pcb.mpoli.fi writes: [about 'official' providers in Finland] Hi Durk, The figures you quote for access in Finland sound to me like usury. It may seem ridiculous, but it *might* even be worthwhile getting an account in another country! Here in the UK I pay about $16 per month for my account (11.75 UKP) for a dialup ppp/slip connection (mostly V32bis, just going faster). The only restriction on use is that the mail must be read on a single machine. Even Compu$erve should cheaper! Regards, -- Gordon Scott Gordon@apis.demon.co.uk Compuserve 100332,3310 Gordon@multitone.co.uk Basingstoke Beekeeper Beekeeper@apis.demon.co.uk ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 May 1995 09:54:58 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Dave Green, Eastern Pollinator Newsletter" Subject: Re: nuke prices Keith_Murray@MBNET.MB.CA (Keith Murray) of Winnipeg, Manitoba asks: >Just curious...how much did people pay for nukes and package Bees this spring? >We are paying $77 for nukes and $50 for a package of 1 kg + queen. Wow! I sell five-frame nucs for $25 US, plus $2 for a disposable box or $10 deposit on my wooden boxes. What is the current rate of exchange Canada/US? You've sure paid dearly for the quarantine. Pollinator@aol.com Dave Green PO Box 1215, Hemingway, SC 29554 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 May 1995 08:10:51 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Eric Abell Subject: Re: Where am I? In-Reply-To: Both England and Brazil asked me to indicate the State(Brazil) or area from their country. I thinkk I have Brazil right but what unit do I use for England. If I have missed some please forgive and send me a correction. > > > > > So far (pretty much in the order received): > > > Columbia Belgium New Zealand Brazil Parana State Sao Paula State Northern Ireland England Sheffield Nottingham Chester Israel Netherlands (Holland) Canada Alberta Prince Edward Island New Brunswick Manitoba Ontario USA Virginia California Georgia Oregon Minnesota Kentucky New Hampshire Florida Washington Texas Wisconsin Pennsylvania Indiana Hawaii South Carolina Nebraska Kansas New York Tennessee Michigan Illinois Louisiana New Mexico Maryland If you are from a country state or province not on this list, you can send me a note and it will be added. It is probably best if you send the message as a personal message rather than to the entire list. This is just a list for interest. Don't worry about any other motives. > > > > > > Eric Abell email: eabell@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca > > > Gibbons, AB, T0A 1N0 > > > Canada > > > (403) 998 3143 > > > > > > > > > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 May 1995 10:06:36 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "La Reine de la Cite' des Phoques (Liz Day)" Subject: Re: Introduced weeds... Sorry, can't help you here. In natural areas around northeast Ilinois, two fo the most feared and tenacious and rampant introduced weeds are sweet clover (Melilotus) and loosestrife (Lythrum). Both are alwasy covered with honeybees, and natural areas manageers would do anything to get rid of the honeybees. I can't speak for the situation in New Zealand, but it is possible that the Ntional Park rules might prevent similar weed miseries. Keep informed..... Liz Day presently in New York City, USA receiving mail at lday@indy.net (that's Lday, not ONEday) (formerly of the Chicago, Illinois, USA area) ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 May 1995 11:55:17 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Brian Tassey Subject: Nuc prices Hi Keith, This is from the Central Valley in CA. Nucs are around $5.00/frame including queen with a frame exchange. Singles are in a range of $35.00-$45.00 depending on strength. Packages are $20.00-$25.00 for a 2lbs. Queens are $5.25-? Decent colonies can be had for $50.00-$55.00 sometimes including the pallet. These prices reflect a 100-200+ quantity.Hope this give you some insight. Brian Tassey Kaykin@aol.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 May 1995 09:13:00 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Kerry Clark 784-2225 fax (604) 784 2299" Subject: Re: nuke prices Small numbers (less than 100) of 4 frame nucleus colonies are available for Cdn $ 51. Queens are from Hawaii, Australia or New Zealand, or local late summer reared. No varroa or tracheal mites. (Delivery extra) Cdn = .72 $ US Larger numbers would be a bit less. Kerry Clark, Apiculture Specialist B.C. Ministry of Agriculture 1201 103 Ave Dawson Creek B.C. V1G 4J2 CANADA Tel (604) 784-2225 fax (604) 784-2299 INTERNET KCLARK@GALAXY.GOV.BC.CA ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 May 1995 12:40:55 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: RICHARD E BONNEY Subject: What kind of sugar? Greetings all Back when extender patties (vegetable oil, sugar, Terramycin) were first being used, the sugar usually specified in the recipes was powdered, as in confectioner's. Today I notice that some recipes for extender patties and most recipes for oil and sugar patties for mite treatment specify granulated sugar. Why? Is it because of the starch in powdered sugar or is there something more? I have also seen reference to making your own powdered sugar by running granulated through a blender. Has anyone done this and is there an advantage? Dick Bonney rebon@ent.umass.edu ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 May 1995 13:35:35 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Diana Sammataro Subject: Re: What kind of sugar? In-Reply-To: <199505021643.MAA28638@postbox.acs.ohio-state.edu> from "RICHARD E BONNEY" at May 2, 95 12:40:55 pm > > Back when extender patties (vegetable oil, sugar, Terramycin) were first > being used, the sugar usually specified in the recipes was powdered, as > in confectioner's. Today I notice that some recipes for extender patties > and most recipes for oil and sugar patties for mite treatment specify > granulated sugar. Why? Is it because of the starch in powdered sugar or > is there something more? MAINLY because the powdered sugar is too expensive for large scale operations. For mites, we want the bees to get in there and pull out chucks of sugar; there is some indication that cleaning behavior is involved with this as well. > I have also seen reference to making your own powdered sugar by running > granulated through a blender. Has anyone done this and is there an > advantage? > Why would you want to do this extra work? If you are using solid veg shortening, you don't need to go to these extremes. > Dick Bonney > rebon@ent.umass.edu > Hope this helps, Diana ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 May 1995 10:58:00 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Kerry Clark 784-2225 fax (604) 784 2299" Subject: Re: What kind of sugar? The recipe we've been advising since 1979 for extender patties has always called for granulated sugar. It came from a paper by W.T. Wilson, J.R. Elliot and J.L. Lackett. The wording below may be slightly different. ANTIBIOTIC EXTENDER PATTIES (for 2 hives, increase as needed) 1/3 lb solid vegetable shortening 2/3 lb granulated sugar 2 Tablespoons Terramycin 25 Stir the TM 25 and dry sugar into a uniform blend. Mix the antibiotic/sugar blend with the shortening, without heating. Yields 1 pound. Divide into two, 1/2 lb patties. To make handling easier, use a sheet of heavy brown wrapping paper. Give 1 patty per colony. Place the patty on the paper, on the top bars of the lower hive body (center of the brood nest). Remove antibiotic patties before the honeyflow. In our experience these patties last up to 6 weeks (depends on the behavior and number of bees) and work well to prevent AFB or prevent/treat European foulbrood in high risk blueberry pollination situations. They don't work in colonies weakened by European foulbrood (the bees don't mobilize them enough). I wouldn't use them on hives with pollen traps, because bits of the patty end up in the tray. If a commercial dough mixer is used to blend the shortening, you'd have to watch because at some point the mix changes from being slightly friable, to being sticky smooth (like cake icing, maybe harder to handle by the scoop.) Confectioners = icing = powdered sugar is used in a dry mix (1 part TM 25 to 5 parts sugar) with antibiotic, for dusting on the top bars (2 level teaspoons per hive, avoiding the area immediately above brood cells, to avoid damaging brrod). Granulated sugar would not adher to the antibiotic powder to make the mix attractive. I understand that some people powdered a small amount of granulated sugar in a food blender, either because they didn't have any commercial powdered sugar, or were concerned about the small amount of powdered starch in the commercial product. Kerry Clark, Apiculture Specialist B.C. Ministry of Agriculture 1201 103 Ave Dawson Creek B.C. V1G 4J2 CANADA Tel (604) 784-2225 fax (604) 784-2299 INTERNET KCLARK@GALAXY.GOV.BC.CA ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 May 1995 16:11:52 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Richard McDonald Subject: Hymenoptera of North Carolina As part of an ongoing study documenting the insect biodiversity of North Carolina, USA, the North Carolina Department of Agriculture's Insect Taxonomist, Ken Ahlstrom, has published the 4th Supplement to the Insects of North Carolina, Part 1: Hymenoptera. This supplement lists 3,452 species of Hymenoptera found in North Carolina, noting new additions to the NCDA collection, nomenclatural changes, specimens that have been cited in publications, and specimens which are housed in the teaching collection at North Carolina STate University. It can be obtained by contacting Mr. Ahlstrom by e-mail at: ken_ahlstrom@ncdamail.agr.state.nc.us and requesting a copy along with your address. ALSO, WHILE SUPPLIES LAST, you can obtain the entire set of publications of Insects of North Carolina (this includes the original book published in 1938, and supplements 1-4) by sending a check for $15.00, made out to the NCDA (to cover postage and handling) to: Ken Ahlstrom NCDA - Plant Industry Division P.O. Box 27647 Raleigh, NC 27611 (919) 733-3610 (919) 733-1041 FAX Thanks, y'all. This message from: richard_mcdonald@ncdamail.agr.state.nc.us ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 May 1995 18:17:29 +600 Reply-To: demde@hookup.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Dirk Emde Subject: (Fwd) Internet costs EUROPE My comments: Access to the internet has become a very commercial activity here in europe. Official access for private persons here in Finland start at approximately 100 USD a month plus an extra per minute fee. If you wish to subscribe to a conference like BEE-L it's an extra 50 USD per month per conference. At least it's down from last year, then it was 450 USD. The reason I say "official" is because several BBS systems, mostly run by students who have hooked up with their schools host computers to provide their users with internet access at a more reasonable fee, are providing "un-official access". The terms "official" and "un-official" are from a conversation I had a few weeks ago with a representative of the telephone company here, during a presentation they where giving on their internet and www service. I asked him how they planned to compete with the less expensive competition. His answer was "There won't be any. These people who are currently abusing their their privileges will be found and shut down". So it's not surprising to look at a subscriber list such as the BEE-L list, and see that most addresses, outside the US, Canada and England, reference government and university servers. How ever the information generated by these internet beekeeping areas is considered so enlightening and informative that to restrict it to only a few (450 "rich :-)" subscribers) would be (in my opinion) a shame. In an effort to get these ideas, information and accumulated knowledge to the people who have the greatest use of it, the average Beekeeper. Although I have yet to meet a beekeeper who considered himself average :-)). BeeNet (Europe) maintains read only (some day I hope read/write) BEE-L, sci.ag.beekeeping and bombus conference areas. With the thankful permission of the internet area hosts. Who sponcers BEENET ?? Mainly the BeeNet Sysops. Durk Ellison OH2ZAS BeeNet: 240:2358/100 email: durk.ellison@pcb.mpoli.fi Access in Canada via Hookup Communications is CDN $300.00 / year for 50hrs. per month. There are no other charges. Could you access a freenet here via Telnet, then get your email there? freenet@carleton.ca is very popular. You would have to get an account there, pay for simple access to get a local number, then telnet in to your account. Just thinking.....Dirk :-) ********************************************************** Dirk Emde demde@hookup.net Kitchener On Canada voice (519) 579-2982 ********************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 May 1995 14:49:00 GMT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Andy Nachbaur Organization: Wild Bee's BBS Subject: varoa removing without use of pesticides IJ<>From: Ivo Jakop <>Date: Sun, 30 Apr 1995 12:38:28 +0200 <>Subject: varoa removing without use of pesticides IJ<>US Magazin Science published in 1989 a report prepared by a french <>scientist group working in Labs for neurobiology in Bures-sur-Yvette. As <>explained in the report they use Ethylpalmitat and Methyllinolenat as <>active substances to allure varoa into a trap and subsequently eliminate <>them from the hive. <>The cheap and undengerous (for bees and human) substance, its <>uncomplicated application looked very attractive and promissing. <>Since then I never heared any further news on development of this <>approach to get ride of varoa.Does somebody of the BEELIST community has <>perhaps more up-to-dayt or fresh info? IJ<>Ivo Jakop, Celje, Rep.of Slovenia Hello Ivo, I just received a video of a talk given by Dr. H. Shiminouki a few week's ago and he talks about the USDA doing this kind of research. He did not mention these chemical's by name, but I assume they will be looking at them. His vision was some kind of trap, like a "varroa motel", they would check in and never check out. I am a beekeeper, in Central California, which is on the Left Coast of the US. I have lost an increasing number of hives over the last 25 years even before the Varroa was first found. I am still having losses, last year was real bad with several yards of over 200 hives dieing out all at once, at different time's of the year. The only difference I have seen in this loss is that today it is greater, and if the yard is infected with Varroa the last bee's to die will have Varroa. I have suspected the real killer is a virus years before any mites were found in the US. Nobody in the US was interested and what little testing for virus that was done was actually sent abroad, so little practical experience working with bee's and virus was done. Shiminouki also outline in his talk the work they have at long last started with bee virus. They are years behind and I don't expect anything soon, but there is alway's hope and maybe with the different talent's of the virologist at work something will develop. There approach, as I see it, to date on the mass loss of bee's which may not be general in the US, but is reported from many different areas depending on the year, including the feral populations, is to give the post morton symptom's a new name "PMS", now BPMS, stands for Post Mite Syndrome. I my opinion this is pure BS (stands for Bull Shit) and not BS (bee science), but I am only a beekeeper who has watched his own bee's for 40+ years. The trouble with the GI science is that they are trying to identify a pathogen after the subject is dead and this leads to more confusion then useful solutions. The symptom's reported by the keeper's of bee's today are NO different then they symptom's reported by beekeepers 80 year's ago with the addition of mites and a new name for hives that are dead. We get only new names every ten years or so and still watch the bee's die, alone in the field with only the beekeeper as witness. But that is no wonder since the so called Bee Lab's are not located in any of the major beekeeping areas and no one can expect a well paid bee scientist to live in some God forsaken farm area just to document the last day's of a bee hive. They would have to travel 50 miles to take a coffee break or find a flush toilet and might see the sun rise and set on the job. This is no longer the American way, we have progressed to the new bureaucratic way's. Forty hour's a week with full benefits and plenty of time to think about it on the job, PMS is the written proof. I am not a scientist only a tired old beekeeper, but I wrote a paper in 1989 that was presented to the American Beekeepers Association that is no better or worse then the so called information on BPMS. I ran my text through a computer program that indicated it was written by someone with a 12th grade education, I won't embarrass anyone with what the same program reported the USDA PMS paper to be, I thought my own should have rated higher to. The beekeeper's and taxpayer's of the United States should not have to pay for these kind of report's or the research to do them. Any high school biology teacher or interested student could do as well. In my opinion they are only hype and PR and are self serving to the agency involved. I want to know what is going on and I don't want to find it out from some dusty chemical sale's person who's company had inside information so his company to could use that information to make some big buck's because it's better then a few beekeeper's misusing the same information to save their bee's. If this is the way it is, or is going to be then I will re-examine my position on supporting any beekeeping research by the government. If the benefits of USDA research on Varroa mite to date is going to the manufactures of the products to control them let the manufacture pay for the research at his own lab. It is evident that what research they are doing they have NOT shared with the public or USDA, or we would be able to produce our own strips or formulation's out of whatever material's at a fraction of the cost beekeeper's now pay. A few pennies of active material incorporated in a low cost carrier should not cost more the a few pennies. It's no wonder beekeeper's around the world are using other methods not approved by governments, when governments, science and regulatory agency's are one in the same and work hand in hand with the chemical companies. What kind of science can one produce if the scientist wares two hats, and one of those hat's is that of a politician who bends in the wind's, not the wind's of change but the wind's of strength..the strong wind's seldom come from the beekeeper's. The proof is that there are other products, materials, and chemicals, tested by many that we could be using, yet they can not be used because of bureaucratic red tape. It is the easy way out to give the same symptom's of dead bee hives a new name each time it show's up in a different area or different year. This is not science but the GI name game and has become part of the problem and not part of the solution. Beekeeper's are losing their bee's they need to know from what and what to do to prevent that loss, and are not interested in going around and telling the world that our losses fit the symptoms of bPMS according to the best scientific minds in the US government. I do support beekeeping research and have worked to see it enlarged and continued, and I will continue to do so, but I must admit it is easy to see why Bee Research in the USA may be in trouble. And I don't believe for a minute it is because beekeeper's have not shown the interest in bee research. If anything it the fact that the research lab's are not able to define their own role's to fill a public need and mostly operate in a climate of political uncertainties. Especially so in the light that so many hobby and small beekeepers have followed the "best" advice and recommendation's of the government to keep their bee's healthy only to have them die anyway. These are not the dumb people that some would make them out to be, and in reviewing the tape of Dr. Shiminuki, any can see that discussion of "positive stress" factor's is only a language trap as the combination of words fly's in the face of the real world. Especially since on the whole the best USDA recommendation's are to control one or more of the stress's from a list of many. Beekeeper's have been doing that since I have been around and are still losing bee's. I believe that we in the US have had our head's held in the sand for too long and if we want to have healthy bee's we better be looking for areas in the world that have healthy bee's or bee's that survive to spite all known problems and bring in that stock and the information on how it is being used by beekeepers, to add to our own tired gene pool or we risk losings it all in a short time. The few introduction's so far have added nothing to the big picture, and more then that is coming in ala natural through our boarder's which have been quarantine against bee's for generations and most of that which could be used is being destroyed. To think that we can change what we have by one or two regulated introduction's in a lifetime is just plain poor thinking and can not be demonstrated at any level in the field. I have tried much of the so called improved commercial stock available and they all die just as dead as the natural stock. There is no practical difference between any of the bee's available today in the US outside of color and the quality that comes with good rearing conditions and bee breeder experience. Some people have a talent and are able to apply it in the right rearing areas, other's try and fail. All have some failures... I would very much like to hear if you know of any large scale loss of bee's in your area, and if these losses have continued or have more or less come and gone or have continued or increased? Does not have to be in total number's of hives, but I am interested in total bee yard's that die out in spite of the efforts of the beekeeper, minimal or not. Feral population's count's of many year's would be useful. To count them now or study them now is interesting and of great value, but the horse has long left the barn. ttul Andy- andy.nachbaur@beenet.com BTW For the record I have yet to treat a hive for Varroa and do not look forward to treating hives for Varroa or any other mite. If that day comes that I have to get on the pesticide tread mill to be a keeper of bee's all will know my day has come and gone as a beekeeper. Some will say I have reach that point. "Pesticides may have been the final solution in 1940, God forbid they become the final solution to keeping my own bee's healthy." (c)Permission to reproduce, granted. Opinion's are not necessarily facts. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 May 1995 10:01:57 +0100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: johan calis Subject: Mite attractants \US Magazin Science published in 1989 a report prepared by a french \scientist group working in Labs for neurobiology in Bures-sur-Yvette. As \explained in the report they use Ethylpalmitat and Methyllinolenat as \active substances to allure varoa into a trap and subsequently eliminate \them from the hive. \The cheap and undengerous (for bees and human) substance, its \uncomplicated application looked very attractive and promissing. \Since then I never heared any further news on development of this \approach to get ride of varoa.Does somebody of the BEELIST community has \perhaps more up-to-dayt or fresh info? Dear Ivo Jakop, Le Conte et al. found and effect of these esters on mites in an olfactometer, which does not mean that mites when on the back of a bee in the odour jungle of the bee-hive react as everybody would hope. Our group studied in a colony the mite's rate of brood cell invasion, or the attractiveness of brood cells, comparing methylpalmitate treated brood cells with untreated brood cells and we could find no difference, the invasion of the mites could be monitored through transparent comb-foundation (W. J. Boot et al, in press Experimental and Applied Acarology). Johan.Calis@medew.ento.wau.nl ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 May 1995 20:35:27 +0000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Sang Kim Subject: help ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ AARDVARK Public Access Internet - Melbourne, Australia - (03) 562-0599 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 May 1995 07:29:54 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Eric Abell Subject: Re: Where am I? In-Reply-To: More areas heard from. It is nice to think that the honey bee has brought us together from around the world merely because of this common interest. When I get the time I will put this together in a more logical order. > > > > > > > So far (pretty much in the order received): > > > > > Columbia > Belgium > New Zealand > > Brazil > Parana State > Sao Paula State > Bahia State Paraiba State > Northern Ireland > > England > Sheffield > Nottingham > Chester > Israel > Netherlands (Holland) Switzerland South Africa > > Canada > Alberta > Prince Edward Island > New Brunswick > Manitoba > Ontario Quebec > > USA Virginia > California > Georgia > Oregon > Minnesota > Kentucky > New Hampshire > Florida > Washington > Texas > Wisconsin > Pennsylvania > Indiana > Hawaii > South Carolina > Nebraska > Kansas > New York > Tennessee > Michigan > Illinois > Louisiana > New Mexico > Maryland Iowa Ohio Indiana > > If you are from a country state or province not on this list, you can send > me a note and it will be added. It is probably best if you send the > message as a personal message rather than to the entire list. > > This is just a list for interest. Don't worry about any other motives. > > > > > > > > > Eric Abell email: eabell@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca > > > > Gibbons, AB, T0A 1N0 > > > > Canada > > > > (403) 998 3143 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 May 1995 09:14:41 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Dave Green, Eastern Pollinator Newsletter" Subject: Re: PreFIFRA Time Warp - Again Comments: To: Gordon@apis.demon.co.uk Gordon@apis.demon.co.uk (Gordon L. Scott) says: >Incidently, A problem we've had here recently is the local water supplier treating the _drinking_water_supply_ with pesticide in the spring & autumn (fall) -- just when we're feeding syrup. Now they know it's a problem, at least they tell us they're going to do it. What kind of pesticide? I should think there would be howls of protests from consumers. There are lots of anti-pesticide consumer groups here that really focus on any trace of pesticides coming into human diets. Or is it fluoridation you are having problems with? Please discuss this more fully. >> Monitor hives are a good tool, and I have made offers for years to provide free monitor hives for applicators. >How do you use these please? Cotton pollen is readily distinguishable; in fact there is very little pollen at that time, except cotton. It is pale yellow, almost white. If there is any doubt, one can watch bees on cotton, and look at the pollen baske ts to learn what it looks like. Then, one has only to watch a monitor hive within reach of a cotton field, to easily see when they are working cotton. This approach should work with any crop. The time of foraging varies, of course, which is why no definite times can be named, so as to say: do not spray between such and such hours. That depends on temperature, moisture, cloud cover, condition of cotton plants, and whether it is early or late in the bloom period. The worst losses occur early, later bloom is weaker and less attractive to bees. A monitor hive or two could be placed where they are accessible and can reach cotton. Anyone could observe from within a closed vehicle for a couple minutes and readily tell if they were working cotton, by the pollen sighted at the entrance Our experience suggests two patterns; one for hot, dry conditions, where bees are foraging before sunup, and cease foraging and concentrate on carrying water after about 10-11am. In cooler weather, say mid-80's, they start later and may forage until 1pm or so. There is a lot of talk about bees working extra-nectiary glands, rather than working the flower. I have seen this at times, but not a lot. The flower seems to be the primary focus of interest. This may be because of shortage of other pollen sources in this area at the time of cotton bloom. They also say that cotton makes nice honey. I don't see how, when the field force keeps getting stripped. And that proves true in practice. After two or three hits in July, the hives are feather light near the end of August. They have lost their capability to feed themselves and will literally starve. I've seen them make honey a few times, but only a few. It's all in the timing of the spraying. (Re mosquito sprayer demands that I list locations and come *protect* the bees whenever he sprays.) >Could he possibly be trying to protect both you and he from mistakes? I guess that mosquito spraying is mostly in water & boggy areas where it will probably be impossible to totally avoid bee forage. Of course I may be being naive here! I've informed him that, if he follows the label, the bees are adequately protected. In some areas that is done by night spraying, which, when done with non-residual materials, complies with the label, and will not hurt the bees. Daytime requires a monitor hive to really know, unless he wants to get out and see what forage there is. He just doesn't want to think about bees when he sprays. He has an urban/suburban population after him, if they get mosquito bitten. Inland mosquito control is almost entirely by ground rigs along roads and streets. After I jacked them up, they have gone to evening spraying, and we have no problems. I told one county director, that if I saw his crew spraying roadside goldenrod when bees are foraging, that I would seek criminal prosecution for wilful misuse. (Incidently, especially for those outside the US, FIFRA is the Federal Insecticide, Fungicide, and Rodenticide act, which has been in effect more than 20 years. It requires applicators to follow a set of directions, which are specifically designed for each label, though the bee protection directions are commonly ignored, and it is hard to get enforcement. I would expect other countries to have similar laws and similar problems getting enforcement. Prior to FIFRA, the bees were considered *trespassers* and the keepers were expected to move or otherwise protect their bees. FIFRA recognized bees as an environmental resource, and by label directions, began protecting the foraging bee. That also protects those which do not have a human defender. We still have a lot of pesticide people around who seem to think FIFRA does not apply, and they have these pre-FIFRA schemes to circumvent label compliance.) On the one hand I feel for the guy applying the pesticides (I've done a lot myself), who doesn't like others looking over his back. On the other hand, some applicators have made a pile of money with quick and dirty applications, and have brought on themselves increasingly close attention. >And I'd like to get them on *our* side if possible. They need us and they're *starting* to realise how much. Amen! One of the problems with cotton, is that so many think they don't need us. Pollinator@aol.com Dave Green ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 May 1995 08:47:48 GMT Reply-To: Gordon@apis.demon.co.uk Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Gordon L. Scott" Subject: Subsribing to bee-l Comments: cc: bcooley@mail.coin.missouri.edu Sent to both the list & direct to Mr. Cooley send a subscription request to the administration machine listserv@uacsc2.albany.edu -- the help line will give you some further instructions. subscribe bee-l help -- Gordon Scott Gordon@apis.demon.co.uk Compuserve 100332,3310 Gordon@multitone.co.uk Basingstoke Beekeeper Beekeeper@apis.demon.co.uk ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 May 1995 07:42:05 -1000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Thomas W. Culliney" Subject: Re: Honey bees/introduced weeds In-Reply-To: <9505021602.AA28734@hinc.hawaii.gov> I have heard that the USDA Forest Service is looking into the possibility of controlling honey bees in certain areas of Hawaii Island. The bees are thought to be a factor in promoting the persistance and spread of the noxious weed Myrica faya. =============================================================================== Thomas W. Culliney * Phone: (808) 973-9529 Hawaii Dept. of Agriculture * Facsimile: (808) 973-9533 Division of Plant Industry * E-mail: tcullin@hinc.hawaii.gov 1428 South King Street * Honolulu, Hawaii 96814 * U.S.A. * =============================================================================== "...but in the minds of most men, the learned as well as the vulgar, the idea of the trifling nature of his pursuit is so strongly associated with that of the diminutive size of its objects, that an _Entomologist_ is synonymous with every thing futile and childish."--Kirby & Spence (1816) =============================================================================== ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 May 1995 14:30:32 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Brian Tassey Subject: Re: What kind of sugar? Dick, I use powdered sugar always mainly because I buy it by the trailer-load as a waste product of the candy industry. They process it themselves so there is nothing but sugar that pulverized. It gets as hard a a brick if it isn't used within 4-6 months. I've been pleased with the consistency of the patties and the syrup is still syrup. I don't see any problems with it. Brian Tassey Kaykin@ aol.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 May 1995 13:44:03 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Stephen J. Scharf" Subject: Difference between bumblebees and honey bees? Hello All, A friend of mine is concerned about a bumblebee nest outside on his deck. Can you tell me what the behavioral, biological and any other pertinent differences between bumblebees and honeybees? Even though I've assured him that bumblebees are generally quite docile and even-tempered, he remains concerned about them. Any info or pointers to info would be most welcome. Thanks. Stephen J. Scharf sjscharf@netcom.com CIS: 72070,750@compuserve.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 May 1995 16:40:28 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Kelley Rosenlund 904-392-5551 Subject: 8 vs 10 Hey gang, After helping my beekeeping friend move 140 HEAVY hives I now see the wisdom of 8 frames over ten. Do you'se charge the farmer the same amount for pollination no matter the size? Also here in Florida the watermelon farmers pay $20.00 a hive. How much do you all get? God Bless, Kelley rosenlk@freenet.ufl.edu ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 May 1995 21:27:03 GMT Reply-To: Gordon@apis.demon.co.uk Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Gordon Scott Subject: Re: PreFIFRA Time Warp Hi, I posted about pesticide in our water supply and Dave Green asked for clarification. Yes I do mean pesticide, not flouridation (another matter). Yes there was something of an outcry especially from us. I haven't been able to find the reference, so I can't be 100% certain, but the people with whom I've asked a second opinion and I agree that it was a synthetic pyrethroid, we think permethrin. The water company's view at the time was that this was a permitted pesticide that is harmless to _humans_ in the quantities used and for the durations used and therefore its use was permitted. If I remember correctly it is used to kill reputedly harmless but 'unsightly' organisms in the water. I think that our water is less chlorinated than that in the US, which may give different priorities. Our water companies do now publish in advance, in the local newspapers, the dates & times of treatment. For any aquarists out there, permethrin is also "extremely dangerous" to fish. I used to keep marine fishes -- I would have been pretty annoyed (that isn't the expression that first came to mind) if they killed a few hundred pounds worth! I think we are winning, but we _must_ continue to make our positions understood! -- Gordon Scott Gordon@apis.demon.co.uk 100332,3310 on CompuServe Newsletter Beekeeper@apis.demon.co.uk ditto Beekeeper, Kendo Sandan, sometime sailor. Basingstoke, Hampshire, RG22 5HP, UK ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 May 1995 15:51:00 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Kerry Clark 784-2225 fax (604) 784 2299" Subject: water quality for bees Gordon's comment on water reminded me of a proposal that is generating some controversy here: The agency responsible for water quality is proposing to switch from regular chlorination of the water supply, to use of chloramine (maybe 2 words). Apparently the water would be toxic to fish for much longer than is the case with regular chlorination. I hadn't considered the possible effect of syrup prepared from the water, on bees. Anyone have good information or experience on this? Kerry Clark, Apiculture Specialist B.C. Ministry of Agriculture 1201 103 Ave Dawson Creek B.C. V1G 4J2 CANADA Tel (604) 784-2225 fax (604) 784-2299 INTERNET KCLARK@GALAXY.GOV.BC.CA ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 May 1995 20:30:22 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Harmony Farm Subject: hex jars We have been subscribing to the Bee list for a month now and have enjoyed the information. At the present we have ten swarms, just recieved four buckfast nucs, last years buckfast nucs wintered over great. What I need is information as to where one can get hex jars. I live 1 1/2 hours from Ottawa, Canada, 2 1/2 hours from Syracuse, NY or Montreal, Canada or 4 1/2 hours from Albany,NY. along the St. Lawrence River Valley in NY. I find the shipping fees from the southern states quite prohibitive and I require alot of cases. Deb Kalicin ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 May 1995 19:26:41 U Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Larry Farris Subject: Gathering Swarms Subject: Time:7:00 PM OFFICE MEMO Gathering Swarms Date:5/3/95 For a general question of an intriguing nature (at least to me), one of our club members asked if anyone had ever heard of someone catching a swarm or feral colony that had a "marked" queen? Since its common knowledge that the old queen is an early departure from the colony during swarming season (leaving behind a new, young queen) it seems reasonable that occasionally a marked queen would be captured . . . but I have never heard of one being caught. Also, can anyone expound on their experiences with marking a queen, only later to discover that the mark is no longer present on the queen's body? This has happened to me more than once (and yes, I'm sure it is the same queen, i.e., no supersedure had occurred). I have used liquid paper (white-out correcting fluid); what else could be recommended? Answers to the LIST may be helpful to new beekeepers, of which I've noticed there are several recently. Otherwise, my E-mail address is ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 May 1995 21:56:12 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Keith Murray Subject: Re: nuke prices In-Reply-To: <199505021357.AA24616@access.mbnet.mb.ca> On Tue, 2 May 1995, Dave Green, Eastern Pollinator Newsletter wrote: > Keith_Murray@MBNET.MB.CA (Keith Murray) of Winnipeg, Manitoba asks: > > >Just curious...how much did people pay for nukes and package Bees this > spring? > > >We are paying $77 for nukes and $50 for a package of 1 kg + queen. > > Wow! > > I sell five-frame nucs for $25 US, plus $2 for a disposable box or $10 > deposit on my wooden boxes. > > What is the current rate of exchange Canada/US? > > You've sure paid dearly for the quarantine. > > Pollinator@aol.com Dave Green > PO Box 1215, Hemingway, SC 29554 > Exchange and duty usually add 50% to costs. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 May 1995 11:49:09 +0100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: johan calis Subject: ...no subject... LAST CALL FOR VOTES (of 2) unmoderated group sci.bio.entomology.misc Newsgroups line: sci.bio.entomology.misc General entomology and related issues. Votes must be received by 23:59:59 UTC, 10 May 1995. This vote is being conducted by a neutral third party. For voting questions only contact Steve Bonine . For questions about the proposed group contact Maarten van Helden . Co-proposers: Yvan Rahbe Lou Bjostad Rod Crawford Peter Rauch Christopher Majka Mentor: Ed Bailey This CFV will be posted to the following mailing lists: entomo-l@uoguelph.ca bee-l@albnyvm1.bitnet socinsct@albnyvm1.bitnet taxacom@cmsa.berkeley.edu pestcon@uiowa.edu CHARTER Discussion, news, and queries concerning the study of insects and other (non-marine) arthropods not covered in more specialised newsgroups. The newsgroup is meant to cover a wide variety of entomological topics, including postings about arachnology, myriapodology and other studies with affinities to entomology. Sci.bio.entomology.misc is *NOT* intended as a forum for the buying and selling of insect specimens nor for the advertising of commercial products and services. However, it is permissible to use the newsgroup to post brief comments with pointers to addresses where readers can obtain information about such products. All participants are expected to respect the environment and the law. Efforts to encourage trespassing or to subvert conservation laws are *NOT* welcome on this newsgroup. Communication will be welcomed from all those interested in entomology, including serious amateurs as well as professionals and students, since these groups have much to contribute to one another and are in need of better communication channels. We hope that through interest and involvement by participants, documents of Frequently Asked Questions (FAQs) will in time be developed on many topics of interest to participants and the general public. Though intended mainly for communication among entomologists, some queries from the general public are to be expected; those which can be answered will be answered politely. RATIONALE Entomology (the study of insects) is the focus of numerous organizations and people, both professional and amateur, all over the world. Entomology is a highly diversified field in which most workers, however specialised their research, retain an interest in other entomological topics. It is also one of the few scientific fields in which amateurs can still make important contributions. The sci.bio.entomology.misc newsgroup is intended for all general entomological postings. There are also some specialised newsgroups (e.g. sci.bio.entomology.lepidoptera) and entomological listservers. The charter of sci.bio.entomology.misc includes consideration that existing or future non-newsgroups/lists dedicated to entomological topics may be gated to/from a suitable sci.bio.entomology subgroup. Creation of additional, more specialised newsgroups would not change the mandate of sci.bio.entomology.misc but would merely allow the creation of additional forums for more detailed discussions among students of certain insect taxa or subject areas. HOW TO VOTE Send MAIL to: voting@ntrs.com Just replying should work if you are not reading this on a mailing list. It would be apprciated by the votetaker if you did NOT forward the entire CFV back; this mail is archived and I really don't need several hundred copies of the CFV on my system. Your mail message should contain one of the following statements: I vote YES on sci.bio.entomology.misc I vote NO on sci.bio.entomology.misc You may also ABSTAIN in place of YES/NO - this will not affect the outcome. Anything else may be rejected by the automatic vote counting program. The votetaker will respond to your received ballots with a personal acknowledge- ment by mail - if you do not receive one within several days, try again. It is your responsibility to make sure your vote is registered correctly. Only one vote per person, no more than one vote per account. Addresses and votes of all voters will be published in the final voting results list. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 May 1995 07:41:16 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Dave Green, Eastern Pollinator Newsletter" Subject: S Carolina Report Things are Poppin' Now. Swarm season is just about over, and most everything that didn't get worked got itself requeened at least. In the lower coastal areas had an excellent tupelo and blackberry flow. Plenty of sunshine plus leftover moisture from the winter flooding made ideal conditions. Unfortunately this is my breeding range, and I had to use just about everything to raise replacement bees; only a few were supered here. In the upper coastal plain, where I supered quite a bit, the light soils dried out so much that there is nothing in most of the supers. Blackberry is now over. There is *snow bloom* on the privet (a lot of abandoned homesites around, where it practically makes a tree), so what honey there is, will be darkened. They are also working ligustrum. Gallberry hasn't kicked in yet; I think it's going to be too dry. We are in a full blown drought, with .7 inch of rain in March, and .3 in April. A few scattered areas got heavy rains and violent weather yesterday morning. We've had four days in the 90's, but generally spring has been sunny and cool. We made a lot of nucs, most of which we'll use ourselves this year. Mating was very good, except for one dragonfly infested yard, which only made 50%. I've been changing them over into ten frame boxes, adding a frame or two of brood to each, and feeding them some more syrup to help them fill out the empty comb.. Bees have already been placed for squash and Kiwi fruit, and soon will be going for cantaloupe, watermelon and cucumbers. Look for a small crop this year. Some farmers did not get good stands due to the drought. Some has already been disked up; others they've saved, but figured weren't worth putting in bees, so the drought will hurt my business. I did not think I'd have enough bees, now maybe I'll have extra. But I'll wait and see. Some of the irrigated guys may order extra, seeing a potentially good market. On Interstate 95, you could sit and watch the bee trucks go by, headed for northeastern apples and cherries. Probably half a dozen tractor trailer loads a day. The guys at the scales love 'em. You can tell when there is another bee truck ahead, by the bees on the scales. Do any New Zealand or California beekeepers on this list do Kiwi fruit pollination? Kiwi is hard to pollinate, and info is hard to get. I think we are doing okay, but I would love to connect with others that are doing it to share info. It would be awful barren without our honeybees. I spent about three hours at midday today just observing the Kiwi pollination. I saw only one solitary bee and one carpenter bee, besides our busy little helpers. I love wa tching the honeybees wallow around among the anthers. Some of the growers tell me that bumblebees work them, but I think it's carpenter bees. I haven't seen a bumblebee yet this season, but carpenter bees have been plentious. (Our local supermarkets have rock hard Kiwi fruit, and don't sell very many. When they reach absolute perfection, they put them in the mark-down bin. Nice for me - spotted some today and I'm eating one now.) Pollinator@aol.com Dave Green Hemingway, SC ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 May 1995 07:41:20 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Dave Green, Eastern Pollinator Newsletter" Subject: Re: 8 vs 10 ROSENLK@MAIL.FIRN.EDU (Kelley Rosenlund : > After helping my beekeeping friend move 140 HEAVY hives I now see the wisdom of 8 frames over ten. I use ten frame, mostly because that was available to me when I started. Most of them go out to pollination with one super. Some of them wind up at the end of the season with the queen above the excluder, which makes a lot of extra work. I've often thought I should have 8 frame doubles, which would make much easier management with all frames the same. If your friend is moving HEAVY hives to pollination, his queens are probably shutting down, and they aren't going to do a very good job. For crop pollination you want the queen going full bore, so the hive needs protein (pollen) to feed all that young brood. Studies show that a bee which is deliberately gathering pollen is as much as ten times more efficient at pollination than one who's gathering nectar. One of my growers has a few hives of his own. He complained that his own hives wouldn't work the crop, because they hadn't been moved in, and they'd gotten habituated to other things beforehand, so they didn't work the crop. The truth was that they weren't working anything. They had sat honeybound and were dwindling down during the crop bloom. Singles should go to vine crops with 1 1/2 to 2 frames of honey maximum in the brood chamber. I like to have one frame of honey, 5-7 frames of brood of all ages, and 2-3 empty combs, to keep the queen laying. Then I try to get one or two shallow frames of honey in the super. Any honey flows here after vine crop bloom are very spotty. I want them to have enough honey so they won't starve, enough room so they can put in some honey if it comes, and plenty of brood space. If they should get honey bound in the brood chamber, I'm not doing my job. Plus the bees will dwindle badly, and they won't be in shape to do a fall pollination. >Also here in Florida the watermelon farmers pay $20.00 a hive. How much do you all get? $20 is not enough to pay for the management they need to do good pollination. Some of the south Florida guys are only getting $25, but they are supering for citrus too. If you are really serious about pollination, and are managing the bees to that end, $30-35 is more realistic. You might have to do some educating for farmers to realize the difference in management, and its value to them. Help me get a grower mailing list in your area, if you'd like, and I'll help educate them. I'll send them some info (freebies), and an invite to subscribe to the pollination newsletter. Pollinator@aol.com Dave Green, PO Box 1215, Hemingway, SC 29554 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 May 1995 00:22:10 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Moote, John M." Subject: Water Quality We have well water which is a great relief after hearing the pesticide and chlorination threads. Still, we don't want to drink the softened water and who knows what the neighbors are putting into the water table. So we purchased one of the dual filter Omni systems. Cost was about $100 here in the US. It has a carbon filter, a heavy metals filter and a small spigot that mounts on the sink. Replacement filters every year cost about $10 for the carbon and $30 for the heavy metals. Flow is about 1 gallon per minute. I consider this one of my best investments to safeguard my family, pets and bees. Just pure, clean water. You can use this on municipal systems, too. The carbon removes the chlorine. A side advantage is that our house (built about 17 years ago) used leaded solder for the water pipes. Being a chemist, I tested the water and found levels of lead in the regular water that were above regulatory limits (this was the water sampled that sat in the pipes overnight). This system is pure compression fittings from the filter to the spigot. What a difference in taste, too. City water now tastes acidic compared to our filtered water. If not for your bees, you may want to get one of these systems for yourself just to avoid those harmless pesticides. John Moote Mootejm@BASF-Corp.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 May 1995 08:42:00 CST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Matt Ter Molen Subject: Re: hex jars I know that a number of bee supply stores carry hex jars (Bushy Mountain in North Carolina is one). I think that Dadant and other place s are just this year carrying the hex jars. People love them! Good luck. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 May 1995 07:42:29 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Eric Abell Subject: Re: Where am I? In-Reply-To: > > More areas heard from. It is nice to think that the honey bee has > brought us together from around the world merely because of this common > interest. > > When I get the time I will put this together in a more logical order. > > > > > > > > > So far (pretty much in the order received): > > > > > > > Columbia > > Belgium > > New Zealand > > > > Brazil > > Parana State > > Sao Paula State > > Bahia State > Paraiba State > > > Northern Ireland > > > > England > > Sheffield > > Nottingham > > Chester > > > Israel > > Netherlands (Holland) > Switzerland > South Africa Wales Australia > > > > Canada > > Alberta > > Prince Edward Island > > New Brunswick > > Manitoba > > Ontario > Quebec > > > > USA Virginia > > California > > Georgia > > Oregon > > Minnesota > > Kentucky > > New Hampshire > > Florida > > Washington > > Texas > > Wisconsin > > Pennsylvania > > Indiana > > Hawaii > > South Carolina > > Nebraska > > Kansas > > New York > > Tennessee > > Michigan > > Illinois > > Louisiana > > New Mexico > > Maryland > Iowa > Ohio > Indiana Massachusetts Arkansas > > > > If you are from a country state or province not on this list, you can send > > me a note and it will be added. It is probably best if you send the > > message as a personal message rather than to the entire list. > > > > This is just a list for interest. Don't worry about any other motives. > > > > > > > > > > > > Eric Abell email: eabell@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca > > > > > Gibbons, AB, T0A 1N0 > > > > > Canada > > > > > (403) 998 3143 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 May 1995 10:03:22 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ed Kear Subject: Re: Water Quality >We have well water which is a great relief after hearing the pesticide and >chlorination threads. Still, we don't want to drink the softened water and >who knows what the neighbors are putting into the water table. So we >purchased one of the dual filter Omni systems. Cost was about $100 here in >the US. It has a carbon filter, a heavy metals filter and a small spigot >that mounts on the sink. Replacement filters every year cost about $10 for >the carbon and $30 for the heavy metals. Flow is about 1 gallon per >minute. One problem with using a carbon filter with unchlorinated well water is that the activated carbon makes a great media for growing bacteria. You should have your filtered water tested. Also, you shouldn't soften water intended for drinking and food preparation Hard water will actually line the pipes with minerals (calcium, magnesium, etc.) [and plugs the pipes, given enough time. :) ] This practically eliminates lead and copper leaching into the water. Ed ebk@nyserda.org ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 May 1995 07:57:23 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Eric Abell Subject: Wintering & Insulation There appear to be not only a great many beekeepers on this list but a log of beekeepers with a great deal of knowledge so I am going to share some science :) with you. I am in Northern Alberta, Canada with winter temeperatures reaching -40 deg. C. All of my colonies are 4 to a pallet facing East and West. My practice is to wrap for winter with R20 insulation on top and R12 insulation on the sides. I have wondered if more top insulation would be better so I selected 4 yards at random. All were in two rows. I then placed twice as much insultion (R40) on one of the rows. Yesterday we finished unwrapping and here are the results. Yard Position Fall weak on opening Alive % loss Thereux N* 24 2 19 20.8 S 16 3 26 0 Total 40 5 35 12.5 Slough E 20 2 17 15 W* 16 5 13 18.8 Total 36 7 30 16.7 Sakiew E* 20 4 8 60 W 18 5 11 38.9 Total 38 9 19 50 Schafer N* 20 6 12 40 S 24 3 20 16.7 Total 44 9 32 27.3 * - those with double insulation I am amazed at the results. My conclusion is that less insulation is better. If that is the case would no insulation be the best? Perhaps I should look into making some wire mesh boxes and winter in those? You should be aware that this was a carefully controlled experiement with all hives matched according to strength, feed, age of queen, pollen supplies, exposure to wind, exposure to mice and skunks, colour of box, size of entrance, time of day, colour of the sky and everything else I can think of. P.S. If you believe this send me a cheque and I will sell you a bridge. The random method selection was used. I simply selected one side and doubled up the insulation. Perhaps I picked the wrong side. Any ideas? Eric Abell email: eabell@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca Gibbons, AB, T0A 1N0 Canada (403) 998 3143 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 May 1995 09:15:37 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Doug Yanega Subject: Re: Honey bees/introduced weeds >I have heard that the USDA Forest Service is looking into the possibility >of controlling honey bees in certain areas of Hawaii Island. The bees are >thought to be a factor in promoting the persistance and spread of the >noxious weed Myrica faya. = >Thomas W. Culliney * Phone: (808) 973-9529 With any luck, Keith Waddington and I will soon be initiating a study of pollination ecology in the Everglades, and it is one of our suspicions that honeybees will prove to be just about the only bee that visits Melaleuca and Schinus, the two worst introduced plants in the area. It also seems likely that those two plants will be Apis' primary food source, so it may be a classic case of exotic species helping one another invade. Anyone have any literature describing other examples of such a "synergistic invasion syndrome"? (That is, where neither exotic would do nearly as well in the absence of the other) Doug Yanega Illinois Natural History Survey, 607 E. Peabody Dr. Champaign, IL 61820 USA phone (217) 244-6817, fax (217) 333-4949 "There are some enterprises in which a careful disorderliness is the true method" - Herman Melville, Moby Dick, Chap. 82 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 May 1995 10:16:25 +22300129 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Adam Finkelstein Subject: Re: Honey bees/introduced weeds In-Reply-To: <199505032030.QAA26228@ipe.cc.vt.edu> from "Thomas W. Culliney" at May 3, 95 07:42:05 am Thomas W. Culliney, wrote: > > I have heard that the USDA Forest Service is looking into the possibility > of controlling honey bees in certain areas of Hawaii Island. The bees are > thought to be a factor in promoting the persistance and spread of the > noxious weed Myrica faya. Humm. How do they plan to do this? What is the problem with _Myrica faya_? Adam -- ______________________________________ Adam Finkelstein adamf@vtaix.cc.vt.edu ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 May 1995 10:24:01 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ed Kear Subject: Re: hex jars > What I need is information as to where one can get hex jars. I live 1 >1/2 hours >from Ottawa, Canada, 2 1/2 hours from Syracuse, NY or Montreal, Canada or >4 1/2 hours from Albany,NY. along the St. Lawrence River Valley in NY. >I find the shipping fees from the southern states quite prohibitive and I >require alot of cases. >Deb Kalicin I think Better Bee in Greenwich, NY has them (well I know that they *had* them). I don't have their address with me, but the owner usually reads sci.agriculture.beekeeping and he might even subscribe to this list. Greenwich is about 20 miles east of Saratoga Springs on the east side of the Hudson river. Just look for the "Meadery" on NY 29 just before the village. You're from my old stomping grounds. Lived in Potsdam, but went to Canton HS. Ed ebk@nyserda.org ekear@roundthebend.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 May 1995 09:27:09 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Doug Yanega Subject: Re: S Carolina Report > It would be awful barren without our honeybees. I spent about three >hours at midday today just observing the Kiwi pollination. I saw only one >solitary bee and one carpenter bee, besides our busy little helpers. I love wa >tching the honeybees wallow around among the anthers. > > Some of the growers tell me that bumblebees work them, but I think it's >carpenter bees. I haven't seen a bumblebee yet this season, but carpenter >bees have been plentious. That scenario would probably change if folks started trying to develop ways to encourage and/or mass rear these native bees, don't you think? They'd probably get better pollination services in the long run for many of their crops, too. (I know, I know... *HERESY!*...but it *is* probably true) Doug Yanega Illinois Natural History Survey, 607 E. Peabody Dr. Champaign, IL 61820 USA phone (217) 244-6817, fax (217) 333-4949 "There are some enterprises in which a careful disorderliness is the true method" - Herman Melville, Moby Dick, Chap. 82 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 May 1995 09:54:57 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "La Reine de la Cite' des Phoques (Liz Day)" Subject: Re: Honey bees/introduced weeds Myrica faya is an introduced tree that takes over areas where there should be native trees and is very hard to get rid of. Liz Day presently in New York City, USA receiving mail at lday@indy.net (that's Lday, not ONEday) ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 May 1995 02:25:54 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Moote, John M." Subject: Re: Water Quality >>We have well water which is a great relief after hearing the pesticide and >>chlorination threads. Still, we don't want to drink the softened water and >>who knows what the neighbors are putting into the water table. So we >>purchased one of the dual filter Omni systems. Cost was about $100 here in >>the US. It has a carbon filter, a heavy metals filter and a small spigot >>that mounts on the sink. Replacement filters every year cost about $10 for >>the carbon and $30 for the heavy metals. Flow is about 1 gallon per >>minute. >One problem with using a carbon filter with unchlorinated well water is that t >he >activated carbon makes a great media for growing bacteria. >You should have your filtered water tested. >Also, you shouldn't soften water intended for drinking and food preparation >Hard water will actually line the pipes with minerals (calcium, magnesium, etc >.) >[and plugs the pipes, given enough time. :) ] This practically eliminates lead >and copper leaching into the water. >Ed >ebk@nyserda.org Very true, Ed. Consumer Reports list that as the chief disadvantage of this type of system. We have not had any problem that I know of over the past three years (unexplained illness, etc). I think with daily use, the buildup of bugs is minimal but if I can, a test is a good idea. The volume of the system is also low, a couple of liters at most. With filtered water like this (I think the system also has one of those 0.2 micron filters, but I need to check that), where do the bugs come from and what do the bugs grow on...please don't answer this... this has been the topic of discussion in Sci.Chem over the last few months concerning distilled water. moote mootejm@basf-corp.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 May 1995 12:27:36 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Dave Green, Eastern Pollinator Newsletter" Subject: Re: Honey bees/introduced weeds dyanega@DENR1.IGIS.UIUC.EDU (Doug Yanega)says >With any luck, Keith Waddington and I will soon be initiating a study of pollination ecology in the Everglades, and it is one of our suspicions that honeybees will prove to be just about the only bee that visits Melaleuca and Schinus, the two worst introduced plants in the area. It also seems likely that those two plants will be Apis' primary food source, so it may be a classic case of exotic species helping one another invade. Anyone have any literature describing other examples of such a "synergistic invasion syndrome"? (That is, where neither exotic would do nearly as well in the absence of the other) There are probably more than two species involved here, and understanding of the situation may require consideration of a third, *Homo apiculturistus*. Beekeepers have been very instrumental in the spread of purple loosestrife (Not me! Honest!). Just one determined individual who wants to keep this plant could probably negate any efforts to eradicate it. Especially if he was mad about losing a honey source. Purple loosestrife honey looks like Penzoil and doesn't taste much better, but it IS honey, and it tends to come at a barren time. I suspect the same may be true of melaleuca. Though it is also a low quality honey, it does feed the bees and can be marketed as bakery grade. Some of the Mexican laborers who were applying weed killer in one eradication program in South Florida got terrible chemical burns, and there was a possibility one would lose his legs. Beekeepers were hoping this would stop the program. I am just tossing this in, without passing judgement. I am certainly pro-environment, as you know, if you've seen my pesticide writings. Pollinator@aol.com Dave Green ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 May 1995 12:27:37 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Dave Green, Eastern Pollinator Newsletter" Subject: Re: S Carolina Report My last note: >>> It would be awful barren without our honeybees. I spent about three hours at midday today just observing the Kiwi pollination. I saw only one solitary bee and one carpenter bee, besides our busy little helpers. I love watching the honeybees wallow around among the anthers. dyanega@DENR1.IGIS.UIUC.EDU (Doug Yanega) responds: >That scenario would probably change if folks started trying to develop ways to encourage and/or mass rear these native bees, don't you think? They'd probably get better pollination services in the long run for many of their crops, too. (I know, I know... *HERESY!*...but it *is* probably true) Heresy, eh? Yes and No. SOME of the complaints about honeybees pollinating actually derive from poor quality hives, or hives not managed for pollination. There is a myth about, that honeybees won't work Kiwi. It is a bit harder, but they work them just fine, if you manage the bees properly. It is hard to match the pollinating effect of 20,000 little critters in a box, just anxious to get to work. I don't think honeybees will be replaced for commercial crop pollination very soon. Not on the crops we are currently doing..... That said, I do see possibilities of *supplementing* them with alternative pollinators on some crops like Kiwi. Tomatoes, peppers, eggplant, okra &c are another story..... I very much want to get into propagation and culture of any bee that will help with pollination. Our native bees have declined a lot in this area, though upstate still has higher populations of solitary bees. These are the main pollinators for peaches in some areas. (Because beehives aren't placed in all orchards, a lot of growers think bees aren't needed for peaches.) I am seeking info on capture, culture and propagation of solitary bees, especially anything available on the internet, as I am far from university libraries. Can you point me in the right direction? Please. Pollinator@aol.com Dave Green ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 May 1995 11:41:10 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "La Reine de la Cite' des Phoques (Liz Day)" Subject: Re: Difference between bumblebees and honey bees? Comments: To: sjscharf@netcom.com Some bumblebees are more aggressive than others. If what your friend wants to knowis, will they attack him, then he could find out by slowly approahcing the nest and seeing if the bees notice him or not. That would give him an idea as to how nervous he ought to be regarding their proximity to his house. Foraging bees almost never sting - it's being near the nest he should worry about. Good luck Liz Day presently in New York City, USA receiving mail at lday@indy.net (that's Lday, not ONEday) ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 May 1995 11:13:00 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Paul van Westendorp 576-5600 Fax: 576-5652" Subject: Re: S Carolina Report For more information on the non-Apis pollinators, you may wish to contact Dr. Philip Torchio at Utah State University, Logan ,Utah. I don't have his e-mail address. You, and others, may also be interested in the upcoming 'Seventh International Symposium on Pollination' at Lethbridge, Alberta on June 23-28, 1996. For more information on this large gathering, you may contact Dr. K.W. Richards, Agriculture & Agri-Food Canada, Lethbridge at RICHARDS@abrsle.agr.ca Paul van Westendorp pvanwesten@galaxy.gov.bc.ca Provincial Apiarist British Columbia ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 May 1995 13:44:00 CST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Matt Ter Molen Subject: Are we winning the battle against tracheal mites? After two depressing springs in a row, I had a wonderful surprise two months ago when inspecting my hives here in northern Illinois. All 7 made it through the winter (albeit a mild one) with large clusters and plenty of brood. Last weekend I finished splitting the hives and now have 10 strong hives with around 12 frames of brood. The question I want to address members of this list is, are we winning the battle against tracheal mites? I have treated all of my hives the same for the last three years (apistan for the recommended period of time, terramycin for EFB, fumidil-B) and I have left them plenty of late season honey, no t syrup, for winter stores. The last two springs were filled with dead hives, little brood, and very small clusters. Since my management scheme hasn't changed that much I was wondering if we had finally turned the corner on some of the problems with tracheal mites. This was reinforced by an article that appeared in the Illinois State Beekeepers Assoc. Newsletter. In the article, they quote Dr. Roger Hoopingarner who states that in Michigan, colony infestation has dropped from 20 to 80% in 1991 and 1992 to 1 to 2% in 1993. Has anyone else found themselv es in a better situation? Does this follow a similar pattern in Europe? ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 May 1995 23:09:41 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Brian Tassey Subject: Re: Are we winning the battle... Matt, Be careful to correlate what you see to the overall seasonal conditions that your bees experience. Time of year, rainfall patterns, available bee pasture, stage of growth of the colonies and many factors play in the health and well-being of the bees. Stress is a big factor. I move my bees about 6-7 times per year and it causes alot of stress on them but a good honey flow with a decent pollen source is like a magic wand to cure most ills. Your good fortune could be mother nature taking pity on you and giving you a break in the form of ideal conditions. After going through the "Drought" in CA (I hope) I'm doing much better I don't see the mite (either one) counts as high and as common as they were for the last few years. I now have more live producing hive than deadouts (Hey I'm satisfied with that). Guarded optimism is important, don't get sloppy, remember "It's not nice to fool Mother Nature". I'm just glad I'm still running my bees and able to say that. Remember Apistan doesn't control T-mites only V-mites Good LUCK! Brian Tassey Kaykin@aol.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 May 1995 23:01:24 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Keith Murray Subject: Re: Wintering & Insulation In-Reply-To: <199505041414.AA06488@access.mbnet.mb.ca> On Thu, 4 May 1995, Eric Abell wrote: > There appear to be not only a great many beekeepers on this list but a > log of beekeepers with a great deal of knowledge so I am going to share > some science :) with you. > > I am in Northern Alberta, Canada with winter temeperatures reaching -40 > deg. C. All of my colonies are 4 to a pallet facing East and West. My > practice is to wrap for winter with R20 insulation on top and R12 > insulation on the sides. > > I have wondered if more top insulation would be better so I selected 4 > yards at random. All were in two rows. I then placed twice as much > insultion (R40) on one of the rows. > > Yesterday we finished unwrapping and here are the results. > > Yard Position Fall weak on opening Alive % loss > Thereux N* 24 2 19 20.8 > S 16 3 26 0 > Total 40 5 35 12.5 > > Slough E 20 2 17 15 > W* 16 5 13 18.8 > Total 36 7 30 16.7 > > Sakiew E* 20 4 8 60 > W 18 5 11 38.9 > Total 38 9 19 50 > > Schafer N* 20 6 12 40 > S 24 3 20 16.7 > Total 44 9 32 27.3 > > * - those with double insulation > > I am amazed at the results. My conclusion is that less insulation is > better. If that is the case would no insulation be the best? Perhaps I > should look into making some wire mesh boxes and winter in those? > > You should be aware that this was a carefully controlled experiement with > all hives matched according to strength, feed, age of queen, pollen > supplies, exposure to wind, exposure to mice and skunks, colour of box, > size of entrance, time of day, colour of the sky and everything else I > can think of. P.S. If you believe this send me a cheque and I will sell > you a bridge. > > The random method selection was used. I simply selected one side and > doubled up the insulation. Perhaps I picked the wrong side. > > Any ideas? > > Eric Abell email: eabell@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca > Gibbons, AB, T0A 1N0 > Canada > (403) 998 3143 > Eric... Do you think the moisture levels in the hive may be the problem? Two of the hives we lost this winter appeared to be extremely wet. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Keith Murray * Don't worry about people stealing St.Mary's Academy * an idea. If it's original, you 550 Wellington cres. * will have to ram it down their Winnipeg, Manitoba * throats. -H. Aiken ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 5 May 1995 07:23:32 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Dave D. Cawley, Internet Cafe Maitre d'" Subject: I've Been Visited... My poor little lone hive got visited by a bear the other night and I haven't seen it yet (it's at a friends house, will today though). He said it got tossed around and there were paw prints all over and around it. He there were holes in the frames, there goes my nice young brood... He put it back up on the stand and got stung once, so they're still there. I know I *really* don't want to hear the answer to this question, but I'll ask anyway...he/she will be back right? Should I have some kind of fence with a battery now? I guess now I can say "I told you so" to my wife for net letting me keep it in our backyard in town where there are no bears...8-} Start PGP Encrypted .sig file now: ****************************************************************************** Dave D. Cawley, Maitre d' | Internet Access, Network Design The Internet Cafe | and Software Development Scranton, Pennsylvania | (717) 344-1969 | Your Footpath Into The Global Village dave@lydian.scranton.com | ****************************************************************************** End. The Internet Cafe URL: http://www.scranton.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 5 May 1995 07:49:33 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Logan Vanleigh Subject: Re: Water Quality >We have well water which is a great relief after hearing the pesticide and >chlorination threads. Still, we don't want to drink the softened water and >who knows what the neighbors are putting into the water table. So we >purchased one of the dual filter [snip] >Just pure, clean water. As long as you flush the bacterial buildup out of the filter. Sitting overnight the filters incubate a measurable growth of bacteria in the act carbon filter (and probably others) that may (and may only) contain pathogens. About a 2 minute flush each morning does the trick. If you're gone a weekend or a month, you still only need the 2-min flush. (based on undergrad research on municipal and well supplied household water systems in 1979). Logan VanLeigh ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 5 May 1995 08:30:10 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Kim Flottum Subject: hi guy Dick, Hope you're feeling better. How is the queen book coming? You can return it anytime and we can get started on it here. Let me know if there is anything I can help with. Have you gotten an bibliography on propolis from IBRA for the article. I just noticed a lot of articles on the subject in the last abstracts. They must have a bunch. Let me know, and take it easy. Kim ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 5 May 1995 13:54:54 +0100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Malcolm Roe Subject: Re: Are we winning the battle against tracheal mites? In-Reply-To: from "Matt Ter Molen" at May 4, 95 01:44:00 pm I don't know anyone in the UK who has significant problems with trachael mites. That's not to say that they don't occur here, just that they don't cause the difficulties experienced in N. America. I believe it's the same throughout Europe too. However, they are supposed to have been the cause of the Isle of Wight disease which devastated British beekeeping at the beginning of the 20th century. Ah, you say. British bees must have evolved resistance to the mites. I believe some bees were imported to the US as breeding stock, hoping this was true but it wasn't. They were found to be just as susceptible as any other bees. It's a mystery. I suppose it could be our mites that have evolved. It's often not in the best interests of parasites to have too deadly an effect on their hosts. -- Malcolm Roe Phone : +44 1442 345104 Crosfield Electronics Ltd Fax : +44 1442 343000 Hemel Hempstead, Herts. HP2 7RH, UK E-mail : roe@crosfield.co.uk ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 5 May 1995 08:01:40 CST6CDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: BLANE WHITE Organization: Minnesota Dept of Agriculture Subject: Re: bears hi Dave, Tried to send this directly too you but keep getting a mail error message. Sorry to hear that the bear found your hive...I lost most of four to a bear a year ago. Not fun. He will be back!!! You will probably have mostly adult bees left ...they really like the brood. You have a few choices: either move the hive, fence it, or kill the bear. The solar fencers which will power 20 miles of fence work well but sometimes walk off. You will also need to keep the weeds down under the fence to keep it from shorting out. You want a fencer that will put out at least 4000 volts to do a good job as a bear fence. I moved my bees into town. They are in my yard now. Overall I came out pretty good as many beekeepers here loose quite a few colonies here every year sometimes even with a good fence. good luck Blane ****************************************** Blane White State Apiary Inspector Minnesota Department of Agriculture Division of Plant Protection 90 W Plato Blvd St Paul, MN 55107 ph 612-296-0591 fax 612-296-7386 bwhite@mda-is.mda.state.mn.us ******************************************** ****************************************** Blane White State Apiary Inspector Minnesota Department of Agriculture Division of Plant Protection 90 W Plato Blvd St Paul, MN 55107 ph 612-296-0591 fax 612-296-7386 bwhite@mda-is.mda.state.mn.us ******************************************** ****************************************** Blane White State Apiary Inspector Minnesota Department of Agriculture Division of Plant Protection 90 W Plato Blvd St Paul, MN 55107 ph 612-296-0591 fax 612-296-7386 bwhite@mda-is.mda.state.mn.us ******************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 5 May 1995 14:22:47 +0100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Malcolm Roe Subject: Bees in chimneys. Our swarming season has just started, a bit earlier than usual, and I have two separate cases of bees in chimneys to sort out this weekend. One of them is in my own house! (No, it's not a swarm from my own beehives - they're kept elsewhere.) In one case the fireplace has been removed, although there is a tiny ventilation grill there. In this case I'll have to kill the bees. Getting on the roof would require scaffolding. For this purpose I normally use greenhouse whitefly smokes - things like small fireworks that produce insecticidal smoke. In the other case I'm going to try to drive the bees out and catch them. The fireplace still exists so I'll light a small fire and then cover it with grass clippings or similar material to produce lots of smoke. If it fails I'll have to use another whitefly smoke. After removing bees from people's chimneys I'm often asked how to stop it happening again. I don't have a satisfactory answer. The problem is that once it's happened the smell of bees lingers in the chimney and acts as a magnet in future years. I've had several swarms in my chimneys in the past. I suspect they're first attracted to my house by the piles of supers there. I've seen a number of bees investigating them over the past few weeks. Once they find they can't get in they are, maybe, attracted to the nearby chimneys. -- Malcolm Roe Phone : +44 1442 345104 Crosfield Electronics Ltd Fax : +44 1442 343000 Hemel Hempstead, Herts. HP2 7RH, UK E-mail : roe@crosfield.co.uk ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 5 May 1995 07:17:43 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Eric Abell Subject: Re: Are we winning the battle against tracheal mites? In-Reply-To: <9505041833.AA26657@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca> On Thu, 4 May 1995, Matt Ter Molen wrote: > After two depressing springs in a row, I had a wonderful surprise two > months ago when inspecting my hives here in northern Illinois. All 7 > made it through the winter (albeit a mild one) with large clusters and > plenty of brood. Last weekend I finished splitting the hives and now > have 10 strong hives with around 12 frames of brood. The question I > want to address members of this list is, are we winning the battle > against tracheal mites? I have treated all of my hives the same for the > last three years (apistan for the recommended period of time, terramycin > for EFB, fumidil-B) and I have left them plenty of late season honey, no > t syrup, for winter stores. The last two springs were filled with > dead hives, little brood, and very small clusters. Since my management > scheme hasn't changed that much I was wondering if we had finally turned > the corner on some of the problems with tracheal mites. This was > reinforced by an article that appeared in the Illinois State Beekeepers > Assoc. Newsletter. In the article, they quote Dr. Roger Hoopingarner > who states that in Michigan, colony infestation has dropped from 20 to > 80% in 1991 and 1992 to 1 to 2% in 1993. Has anyone else found themselv > es in a better situation? Does this follow a similar pattern in Europe? > I see nothing that you did that would improve your tracheal mite situation. However, I, too, have heard of beekeepers who did nothing and found the tracheal mite problem reduced. Eric ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 5 May 1995 07:22:25 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Eric Abell Subject: Re: Wintering & Insulation Comments: To: Keith Murray In-Reply-To: <9505050351.AA33366@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca> > Do you think the moisture levels in the hive may be the problem? Two of > the hives we lost this winter appeared to be extremely wet. > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Keith Murray * Don't worry about people stealing > St.Mary's Academy * an idea. If it's original, you > 550 Wellington cres. * will have to ram it down their > Winnipeg, Manitoba * throats. -H. Aiken > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > I doublt it. All had similar upper entrances. Moisture could help account for the losses but I don't believe it can account for the DIFFERENCE in the losses between the two groups. There was also a relatively large number of colonlies involved so I would not think chance would play a large part. Eric ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 5 May 1995 07:38:31 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Eric Abell Subject: Where am I? In-Reply-To: > > > > >> > Columbia > > >> > > > >> > Brazil > > >> > Parana State > > >> > Sao Paula State > > >> > Bahia State > > >> Paraiba State > > >> > > >> > Israel > > > > Europe > > >> > Belgium > > >> > Netherlands (Holland) > > Sweden > >>> Switzerland > > >> > Northern Ireland > > >> > England > > >> > Sheffield > > >> > Nottingham > > >> > Chester > > > Wales > > >> > > > > >> South Africa > > > Australia > > >> > New Zealand > > >> > Mexico Campeche > > >> > Canada > > >> > Alberta > > >> > Prince Edward Island > > >> > New Brunswick > > >> > Manitoba > > >> > Ontario > > >> Quebec British Columbia > > >> > > > >> > USA Virginia > > >> > California > > >> > Georgia > > >> > Oregon > > >> > Minnesota > > >> > Kentucky > > >> > New Hampshire > > >> > Florida > > >> > Washington > > >> > Texas > > >> > Wisconsin > > >> > Pennsylvania > > >> > Indiana > > >> > Hawaii > > >> > South Carolina > > >> > Nebraska > > >> > Kansas > > >> > New York > > >> > Tennessee > > >> > Michigan > > >> > Illinois > > >> > Louisiana > > >> > New Mexico > > >> > Maryland > > >> Iowa > > >> Ohio > > >> Indiana > > > Massachusetts > > > Arkansas North Carolina > > This is a list of Countries and some states and provinces that have participants. If you would like to see your country/state/province listed simply send me a personal message. Remember, this is just for interest. You will win no prize and will be on no mailing list. Eric Abell Box 87 Gibbons, AB T0A 1N0 Canada (403) 998 3143 eabell@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 5 May 1995 10:14:34 EST5EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: CAMERON SKINNER Organization: McGill University - Chemistry Subject: Pollen up to my knickers Comments: To: BEE-L%ALBNYVM1.BITNET@VM1.MCGILL.CA Hi fellow beekeepers, Yesterday I had the good fortune of having a very warm and still day to work the bees. I removed the winter insulation and reorganized the hives and while I was spreading the brood I found that many of the frames that the bees had filled were mostly pollen. Here's my question, should I remove a couple of these frames and put them into the freezer and return them the the bees in the late Fall as winter stores? I believe that the pollen is from maple and willow trees in flower and the bees seem to have about three full frames of pollen per hive. Also how can I encourage the bees to not put pollen into "honey" frames? My limited experience last year showed that upon extraction the pollen added a certain cloudiness to the finished honey. BTW ALWAYS put a mouse proof entrance on the hive before closing them in for the winter, mice seem to enjoy the warmth and the company during the long winter nights. Cameron. ///////////////////////////////////////////////////// / Question for the day: / / Do witches run spell checkers? / / / / Cameron Skinner Skinner@omc.lan.McGill.ca / / McGill University / / Room 221 Otto Mass Chemistry Bldg. / / 801 Sherbrooke St. West / / Montreal, Quebec, Canada / / H3A-2K6 / / Tel. 514-398-6231 / ///////////////////////////////////////////////////// ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 5 May 1995 11:24:08 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Lars A. Lutton" Subject: Re: Bees in chimneys. From: NAME: Lars Lutton FUNC: Instructional Media Services TEL: (614)593-2669 To: MX%"BEE-L@UACSC2.ALBANY.EDU"@MRGATE@OUVAX Malcolm, I first got into bees by a swarm in my own chimney 20 years ago. After some major discouragement from an experianced beekeeper, I forged ahead. The entire excercise was a toatal disaster, but it got me hooked. They were well established when I noticed them and I sent any number plummeting two stories inside the chimney with their comb. They didn't recover at all well. In the U.S. there is sold a spark arrester/hood for standard chimney sizes. There is a expanded metal grill that might prohibit/reduce bee access. I think they might discourage future swarms if they are available to you. Regards, Lars /lutton@ouvaxa.cats.ohiou.edu ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 5 May 1995 09:27:14 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Subject: Re: Bees in chimneys. In-Reply-To: <9505051520.AA22016@cuugnet.cuug.ab.ca> > There is a expanded metal grill that might prohibit/reduce bee access. > I think they might discourage future swarms if they are available to you. 6 mesh hardware cloth should do the trick and reduce sparks, without restricting draft at all. BTW 5 mesh hardware cloth is often used as an exclude as bees can pass thru, leaving drones and queens behind. Allen W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper VE6CFK Rural Route One Swalwell Alberta Canada T0M 1Y0 Email: dicka@cuug.ab.ca or allend@internode.net Virtual Art Gallery: http://www.cuug.ab.ca:8001/~dicka __________________Why not drop by?____________________ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 5 May 1995 16:55:18 +0100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Malcolm Roe Subject: Re: Bees in chimneys. In-Reply-To: from "Allen Dick" at May 5, 95 09:27:14 am Regarding bees in chimneys, Allen Dick wrote: > > 6 mesh hardware cloth should do the trick and reduce sparks, without > restricting draft at all. > > BTW 5 mesh hardware cloth is often used as an exclude as bees can pass > thru, leaving drones and queens behind. In the particular case worrying me at present the problem is that I can't easily get to the top. It's a two story building with the chimney above the ridge at one end. Unfortunately I can't get a ladder in at a safe angle to climb because of other buildings. I'd need to erect scaffolding. -- Malcolm Roe Phone : +44 1442 345104 Crosfield Electronics Ltd Fax : +44 1442 343000 Hemel Hempstead, Herts. HP2 7RH, UK E-mail : roe@crosfield.co.uk ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 5 May 1995 08:43:00 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Paul van Westendorp 576-5600 Fax: 576-5652" Subject: Re: I've Been Visited... Dave, you are right, the bear is likely coming back after such a good meal. Although in spring, bears are on the move and he may have just picked up this morsel on the way. It is much harder to deter a bear after he has learned there is a nice meal out there. An electric fence for one hive sounds pretty expensive to me! Why not salvage the hive (assuming there is anything to salvage) and bring it to a safe, bear-free environment? In any event, if you do put up a fence now, you want to make sure you apply the maximum zap to the bear when it does return. I suggest you put up the fence and place chicken wire on the ground just outside the fence. Make sure to ground the chicken wire well; if it is placed just on dry sandy soil you may not have enough grounding. Here in BC we have a very large population of bears and many beekeepers move colonies up in the mountains every summer for the fireweed. Properly operated bear fences are a must in keeping your colonies in one piece. good luck, Paul van Westendorp pvanwesten@galaxy.gov.bc.ca Provincial Apiarist ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 5 May 1995 15:25:58 +0100 Reply-To: IBRA@cardiff.ac.uk Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Dr Pamela Munn Subject: Lost mail The mailserver that handles e.mail to IBRA failed over the 3/4 May period - anyone trying to contact us, and hasn't had a reply, please resend your message. ************************************************************** * Dr Pamela Munn * * Editor of Bee World, Associate Editor of J. Apic. Res. * *============================================================* * E.mail : IBRA@Cardiff.AC.UK | Mail : IBRA * * Phone : (+44) 1222 372 409 | 18 North Road * * Fax : (+44) 1222 665 522 | Cardiff CF1 3DY * * | UK * *============================================================* * If your mail is for someone else in IBRA I will pass it on * ************************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 5 May 1995 13:12:13 GMT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: MEMO 1995/05/05 13:23 From: John E III Taylor Subject: Re[2]: I've Been Visited... Actually, if you connect the hot wire of the charger to the fence, and the ground lead of the charger directly to the chicken wire (and to a ground rod as well), soil conductivity isn't critical, and you get the maximum zap per volt of charger output. Bond the chicken wire together well wherever you have to make a joint. John E. Taylor III W3ZID | "The opinions expressed are those of the E-Mail: mah48d@rohmhaas.com | writer and not of Rohm and Haas Company." _______________________________________________________________________________ Subject: Re: I've Been Visited... From: SMTP.BEEL1 at ROHMAIL Date: 5/5/95 12:08 PM Paul van Westendorp wrote: In any event, if you do put up a fence now, you want to make sure you apply the maximum zap to the bear when it does return. I suggest you put up the fence and place chicken wire on the ground just outside the fence. Make sure to ground the chicken wire well; if it is placed just on dry sandy soil you may not have enough grounding. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 5 May 1995 13:27:52 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Subject: Re: Re[2]: I've Been Visited... In-Reply-To: <9505051823.AA07178@cuugnet.cuug.ab.ca> On Fri, 5 May 1995, John E III Taylor wrote: > Actually, if you connect the hot wire of the charger to the fence, and the > ground lead of the charger directly to the chicken wire (and to a ground rod > as well), soil conductivity isn't critical, and you get the maximum zap per > volt of charger output. Bond the chicken wire together well wherever you have > to make a joint. > Paul van Westendorp wrote: > > > In any event, if you do put up a fence now, you want to make sure you > apply the maximum zap to the bear when it does return. I suggest you put > up the fence and place chicken wire on the ground just outside the fence. > Make sure to ground the chicken wire well; if it is placed just on dry > sandy soil you may not have enough grounding. In Northern Alberta the practice was to take a can of sardines and punch a few nail holes in it and wire it to the fence. The idea is that the bear is quite attracted to the smell of (rotting?) sardines and touches the can with his nose. That way one can be sure the bear knows the fence is there and doesn't just amble through it in the dark. Allen > W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper VE6CFK Rural Route One Swalwell Alberta Canada T0M 1Y0 Email: dicka@cuug.ab.ca or allend@internode.net Virtual Art Gallery: http://www.cuug.ab.ca:8001/~dicka __________________Why not drop by?____________________ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 5 May 1995 13:00:00 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Paul van Westendorp 576-5600 Fax: 576-5652" Subject: Re: Re[2]: I've Been Visited... Allen, I thought about the sardine or bacon strip trick. I refrained from including it because animal rights people may get upset with the notion of setting out a bait intended to shock (hurt) the animal. Paul van Westendorp pvanwesten@galaxy.gov.bc.ca Provincial Apiarist British Columbia ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 5 May 1995 17:49:33 +22300129 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Adam Finkelstein Subject: Beekeeping FAQ: how to get (some updates) Hello, If you would like to get the latest copy of the beekeeping FAQ, pointing toward internet beekeeping resources, here's what you do: * WWW URL: ftp://rtfm.mit.edu/pub/usenet/news.answers/beekeeping-faq * WWW URL: http://www.cis.ohio-state.edu:80/hypertext/faq/usenet/beekeeping-faq/faq.html * FTP: FTP rtfm.mit.edu log on anonymous, then cd to /pub/usenet/news.answers/beekeeping-faq can also FTP to: ftp.uu.net /usenet/news.answers/beekeeping-faq If you can't use FTP, you may email for the faq. Here's how: * email: mail-server@rtfm.mit.edu no subject in body of letter put: send usenet/news.answers/beekeeping-faq * Usenet The beekeeping faq is posted every month to: news.answers, sci.answers, misc.answers, alt.answers, rec.answers as well as sci.agriculture.beekeeping, misc.rural, alt.sustainable.agriculture, and rec.gardens. As a last resort, you may mail me and I'll send you the latest version, but I might take longer than the above sources.... As always, please send suggestions, comments, criticisms, and I'll do what I can. Wishing you the best in the beekeeping world, Adam -- ______________________________________ Adam Finkelstein adamf@vtaix.cc.vt.edu ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 5 May 1995 23:43:06 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Bill Russell Subject: Re: hex jars Deb- I use almost exclusively Hex jars in by bottling of honey and other products. I get mine from Mid-Con 1 800 547-1392. They have the cheapest prices I can find in the volumes that I use. They can be shipped by the pallet which is cheaper and you might be able to get a discount. I have checked Hex jar distributers in the US, Canada, and England and this is still the best price I can get. Hope this helps, if you find cheaper...please share! -Bill Russell Bee Charmer's Pure Gathered Honey Products E-Mail russell@bigvax.alfred.edu Snail mail @ PO Box 1121, Alfred, NY 14802 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 6 May 1995 08:29:45 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Carl Mueller Subject: Re: Water Quality >>We have well water which is a great relief after hearing the pesticide and >>chlorination threads. Still, we don't want to drink the softened water and >>who knows what the neighbors are putting into the water table. So we >>purchased one of the dual filter Omni systems. Cost was about $100 here in >>the US. It has a carbon filter, a heavy metals filter and a small spigot >>that mounts on the sink. Replacement filters every year cost about $10 for >>the carbon and $30 for the heavy metals. Flow is about 1 gallon per >>minute. > > > >I have well water here in south Florida. The water is loaded with tannen and iron. To combat the softened water I purchased an reverse osmosis filter system. It does filter out all the minerals (problem) as well as all pollution, such as pesticides, etc. We do take mineral supplements to counter the loss of minerals from our drinking water. We only use the filtered, softened water for washing and bathing. I think that the reverse osmosis system was money well spent. ----------------------------------------------------------------- Carl Mueller Email: cmueller@emi.net West Palm Beach, Florida USA I think therefore, I am politically incorrect!! ----------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 6 May 1995 08:45:12 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Carl Mueller Subject: Re: Honey bees/introduced weeds >dyanega@DENR1.IGIS.UIUC.EDU (Doug Yanega)says > >>With any luck, Keith Waddington and I will soon be initiating a study of >pollination ecology in the Everglades. > > Some of the Mexican laborers who were applying weed killer in one >eradication program in South Florida got terrible chemical burns, and there >was a possibility one would lose his legs. Beekeepers were hoping this would >stop the program. > > I am just tossing this in, without passing judgement. I am certainly >pro-environment, as you know, if you've seen my pesticide writings. > >Pollinator@aol.com Dave Green > > Dave, >Why aren't you using American (U.S Legals) as labors. There are many legals here who are unemployed. I am sensitive to this, because I am an unemployed EE in south Florida and employment is getting harder to find. There are too many people taking jobs from U.S. citizens. ----------------------------------------------------------------- Carl Mueller Email: cmueller@emi.net West Palm Beach, Florida USA I think therefore, I am politically incorrect!! ----------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 6 May 1995 08:20:30 PDT Reply-To: "W. Allen Dick" Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "W. Allen Dick" Subject: BEE?-L I'd like to gently remind the list members that I, and many others signed on to a BEE list, not a political list, or a health list or a small talk list. While I encourage *any* post -- no matter how unsophisticated or redundant -- on the subject of bees, honey, beekeeping, etc., I would like to request that posts not directly related to these subjects be posted by personal mail or on other lists. It is entirely understandable, and accepted, that occasionally unrelated matters need be posted here, but please be considerate. TIA Allen W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper VE6CFK Rural Route One, Swalwell, Alberta, Canada T0M 1Y0 Email: dicka@cuug.ab.ca or allend@internode.net Virtual art gallery: http:// www.cuug.ab.ca:8001/~dicka ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 6 May 1995 11:11:33 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Dave D. Cawley, Internet Cafe Maitre d'" Subject: Total Destruction Well, the bear hit my lone hive on Wednesday night and my friend put it back together on Thursday morning and said there were hundreds of bess clinging to the frames. The bear came back Thursday night in the pouring rain and finished off the rest. There were about 15 bees left when I got there Friday afternoon. There were only two frames that didn't have big holes in the center, those had *HUGE* paw prints in them. The boxes were dumped over and the frames were scattered around the boxes. Only one frame got broken, but it can be repaired. These guys had it rough, they were a nuc last spring and they swarmed in Spetember and made it through the winter and were building up into a nice colony. Just three weeks short of being a beekeeper for a full year, now I'm back to being a beekeeping equipment keeper...8-{ I'm pretty bummed. But as someone at work said, "At least it was done for a good reason, not some punk neighborhood kids being jerks." I can understand what he's saying, but it doesn't help much... Start PGP Encrypted .sig file now: ****************************************************************************** Dave D. Cawley, Maitre d' | Internet Access, Network Design The Internet Cafe | and Software Development Scranton, Pennsylvania | (717) 344-1969 | Your Footpath Into The Global Village dave@lydian.scranton.com | ****************************************************************************** End. The Internet Cafe URL: http://www.scranton.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 6 May 1995 13:57:30 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Subject: BEE-L Logs on my Web Site. In the interests of providing searchable answers on many topics which have been intelligently discussed on BEE-L over the past few years, I am putting some of the logs on my web site as shown below in my signature file. Most of the up-to-date brousers allow searching using the 'find' function and saving of part or all of the viewed document. Those on shell UNIX accounts should be able to reach the location too, by typing 'lynx' att he $ or % prompt and using the 'g' function. I have a few logs available now, but the my provider seems to be having some web problems today. So if you can't get through the first time you try, try again later. CUUG crashes either partially or completely about once a week. I would appreciate your feedback if you find them useful (or not)-- by personal email only -- NOT DIRECTED THROUGH THE LIST, PULEEEEZE!!! That will help me decide if it is worth continuing, as the logs use a lot of space. Allen W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper VE6CFK Rural Route One Swalwell Alberta Canada T0M 1Y0 Email: dicka@cuug.ab.ca or allend@internode.net Virtual Art Gallery: http://www.cuug.ab.ca:8001/~dicka __________________Why not drop by?____________________ ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 6 May 1995 18:16:51 +1030 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jean-Pierre Chapleau Subject: JZBZ cages As a commercial queen producer I have used JZBZ plastic queen cages to ship my queen for the past couple years. They are very handy both for the queen producer and the beekeeper. Used for introduction in nucs they give very good acceptance. In my opinion the JZBZ cage corrects one of the major problem of the standard tree hole wooden cage. With the tree whole cage the time required for the bees of the host colony to eat up the candy is not predictable. Sometimes the queen is released too soon, sometime only 7 days after introduction. Neither is good. Some of my customers report that acceptance is full size colonies is not good at all with JZBZ cages. I experienced myself bad results at certain occasions. One Manitoba producer told me that he will never use JZBZ cages again. Robert Page from California told me that according to his tests, the queens get a lot of foot damage when they are used for banking. I never bank queens but some of my customers do and I had reports of queens killed while banked! I am wondering if I should switch to another type of cage. (Maybe I would give a try to the new Koehnen cage.) I would like to hear other people's experience on this before I make my decision. _______________________________ ~ |_____JEAN-PIERRE CHAPLEAU______| ~ bee breeder |1282, rang 8, Saint-Adrien,| ~ | Quebec, Canada, J0A 1C0 | vice president of the Canadian Honey Council | phone: (819) 828-3396 | ~ ~ | fax: (819) 828-2248 | ~ ~ | chapleau@scuzzy.fmmo.ca | ~ ~ |______________________________~ ~ |__| |__| ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 6 May 1995 19:17:11 +22300129 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Adam Finkelstein Subject: Re: JZBZ cages In-Reply-To: <199505062217.SAA71921@ipe.cc.vt.edu> from "Jean-Pierre Chapleau" at May 6, 95 06:16:51 pm On a small scale JZBZ cages have been similar to traditional 3 hole wood ones for my operation. Adam (I think putting candy in the JZBZ cage is much easier.) -- ______________________________________ Adam Finkelstein adamf@vtaix.cc.vt.edu ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 6 May 1995 22:55:01 -0300 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Harvey Hyde Subject: Brood Chambers In-Reply-To: <199505062001.RAA12000@bud.cycor.ca> =FF I was wondering why many b-kprs use two brood chambers? Before I started keeping bees, I read most of the books available in the local library. One that impressed me was by Aebi, who held the Guiness world record at I believe over 600 pounds from one hive, and all above one BC. To overwinter, I just leave on a full super of=20 honey. My bees seem to overwinter OK and they produce a nice amount of honey for me. Am I missing something? =20 I am in Prince Edward Island, Canada and we are still mite free. Harvey Hyde hhyde@peinet.pe.ca ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 7 May 1995 00:26:00 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Crawfords Electronics <0006173164@MCIMAIL.COM> Subject: Re: Bees in chimneys. >> There is a expanded metal grill that might prohibit/reduce bee access. >> I think they might discourage future swarms if they are available to you. > >6 mesh hardware cloth should do the trick and reduce sparks, without >restricting draft at all. > >BTW 5 mesh hardware cloth is often used as an exclude as bees can pass >thru, leaving drones and queens behind. > >Allen My experience here in the San Francisco Bay Area is that once the original swarm has arrived, even if the swarm doesn't come, the scouts will. Even though the queen can't pass (usually) the 1/4" mesh hardware cloth, scouts can. Unless the chimney has been cleaned very well, immediately after winter, the flew will be dusty with soot. If 1/4" mesh is used, the scout will get through the square; then as it bangs around trying to get back through the screen, exaustion and soot will cause it to drop down and shortly arrive in the fire box. Of corse, any large screen will do nothing. I use 1/8" galvy screen; making a "hat" that fits snugly on to the top of the fire clay smoke stack. Most people don't use their fire places here in this mild climate. so the news that if the fire place is used, the hat must be removed and hung up in the garage till next spring, is met with little resistance. If they forget to remove, there will be 3-6 fires before enough creasote precipitates on the grid to shut down the draft. If the screen is placed in responce to scouts, the odds are very good that another call will be comming soon to remove the swarm, now hanging of the side of the chimney. Our consumer hardware stores don't sell hardware cloth with size indications such as 5 or 6. How does that translate into fractions. Alas poor metric, I knew him well. David Crawford Pinole, Ca. 6173164@mcimail.com P.s. In another post, Lars writes about the use of spark aresters, using expanded metal screen. I have earned many $s removing the swarms that decide these caps are a wonderful place to live. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 7 May 1995 13:20:03 +0300 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: eisikovitz Subject: Re: email address Comments: To: "H.Y.WETZSTEIN" In-Reply-To: <950503.160115.EDT.HYWETZ@UGA.CC.UGA.EDU> Dear Hazel, many thanks for your two messagests the Email of yoram, I started to process the visa arrangement All the best, Dan ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 7 May 1995 13:24:58 +0200 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ivo Jakop Subject: attention andy nachbaur I was trying to send you a replay to the email address given in your message from may 3t (andy.nachbaur@beenet.com) but received a rejection. Unknown destination! Can you send me a message with your exact e-mail address? regards Ivo ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 7 May 1995 07:45:26 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Eric Abell Subject: Re: Where am I? In-Reply-To: Columbia Brazil Parana State Sao Paula State Bahia State Paraiba State Israel Europe Belgium Netherlands (Holland) Sweden Switzerland Northern Ireland England Sheffield Nottingham Chester Wales South Africa Australia New Zealand Mexico Campeche Canada Alberta Prince Edward Island New Brunswick Manitoba Ontario Quebec British Columbia USA Virginia California Georgia Oregon Minnesota Kentucky New Hampshire Florida Washington Texas Wisconsin Pennsylvania Indiana Hawaii South Carolina Nebraska Kansas New York Tennessee Michigan Illinois Louisiana New Mexico Maryland Iowa Ohio Indiana Massachusetts Arkansas North Carolina Virgin Islands This is a list of Countries and some states and provinces that have participants. If you would like to see your country/state/province listed simply send me a personal message. Remember, this is just for interest. You will win no prize and will be on no mailing list. Eric Abell Box 87 Gibbons, AB T0A 1N0 Canada (403) 998 3143 eabell@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 7 May 1995 08:03:47 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Subject: Re: Bees in chimneys. In-Reply-To: <9505070529.AA16356@cuugnet.cuug.ab.ca> On Sun, 7 May 1995, Crawfords Electronics wrote: > Even though the queen can't pass (usually) the 1/4" mesh hardware cloth, > scouts can. Unless the chimney has been cleaned very well, immediately > after winter, the flew will be dusty with soot. If 1/4" mesh is used, 6 mesh is six squares to the inch. It is used for push-in queen release cages, because no honeybee can get thru it. 5 mesh makes a good excluder. Workers can pass thru, Drones and queens and mice can't. These are the two main sizes used in beekeeping. They are both used in pollen traps. The former to keep bees out of the pollen tray and the latter to brush off the pollen baskets. Hardware cloth is a bit of a specialty item, but a search thru the yellow pages should find someone who knows what you are talking about.. Allen W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper VE6CFK Rural Route One Swalwell Alberta Canada T0M 1Y0 Email: dicka@cuug.ab.ca or allend@internode.net Virtual Art Gallery: http://www.cuug.ab.ca:8001/~dicka __________________Why not drop by?____________________ ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 7 May 1995 08:17:13 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Subject: Logs on the web Ooops! I got all the BEE-L logs uploaded to CUUG and discovered I'm using over 11 megs! I'm allowed 5. I can get away with 11 for a few days (maybe), but I'm going to have to trim down. Don't be surprised if some of the dasta suddenly disappears. If you can, visit http://www.cuug.ab.ca:8001/~dicka as soon as possible to look through or download the logs. Shell account users may get there using the command 'lynx' and then using 'g' to get a promp to type in the URL. I notice last month's log was monster - 658K. I haven't figured out why yet, as I haven't examined it in detail, but I know there has been a lot of small talk and some of us (mea culpa) could edit our quotes a bit more, seeing as the original post is always sent to us and available for reference unless we deleted it. We are also getting several newsletters posted -- as well as whole articles. IMHO this is a good thing, so I would rather live with the size than in any way stifle *any* on-topic posts. Anyhow, enjoy, and be sure to write me if you like this experiment and maybe I can edit the logs down or find another (permanent) home for them. Allen W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper VE6CFK Rural Route One Swalwell Alberta Canada T0M 1Y0 Email: dicka@cuug.ab.ca or allend@internode.net Virtual Art Gallery: http://www.cuug.ab.ca:8001/~dicka __________________Why not drop by?____________________ ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 7 May 1995 11:25:33 +22300129 Reply-To: adamf@vtaix.cc.vt.edu Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Adam Finkelstein Subject: Mating problems: Nuc design? Comments: To: bee-l@uacs.c2.albany.edu Hello. I have a nuc question. Please mail me your response (I've set the reply-to header to my address, so just hitting "r" or "R" should do it) I'll summarize answers for the list. I'm mating queens. I use single nuc boxes and boxes divided in two. The matings I get in the single boxes are about 80%, but the divided boxes are about 33%. I'm using masonite to divide the boxes, and there is a large "buffer area" between the two masonite dividers (a medium divided into three compartments with the nucs on the outside compartments.) There are small gaps between the masonite and the hive rabbet. Very small. Also, I use flat cypress tops that often do not stay flat (they warp a little). Is the virgin or queen crossing over into the other nuc via the uneven top or through the gaps from the masonite? Also, the entrance holes I have are very small, 5/8" or about 1 cm. These are almost tunnel like. Should they be bigger, and deeper or does this not matter. Tell me what you think please. I want to use the divided nucs since if they work, I'll be getting twice as many queens mated in the same space. thanks, Adam -- ______________________________________ Adam Finkelstein adamf@vtaix.cc.vt.edu ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 7 May 1995 13:14:38 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Doug Lawson Subject: Writer interested in personal bee stories... Hello! I'm currently researching a novel wherein one of the characters is a beekeeper. I'd be interested in hearing personal experiences, good or bad, that anyone's had and feels like sharing. This is not one of those "Killer Bee" kind of things--my intent is to portray the beekeeping as something very close to heart of this man. Thoughts toward beekeeping in Vermont, where the book is set, (i.e. what precautions might be necessary, etc.) are also welcome. Thanks in advance! I look forward to hearing from you. -Doug Lawson. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 7 May 1995 11:36:49 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jim Osborn Subject: Queen Intrduction Cages (was: JZBZ cages) After learning about Push-In queen introduction cages at the WAS-93 conference at Simon Frasier, I've never had a rejection. I suppose this cage may be too much hassle for a large commercial operation, but I suspect the increased acceptance rate makes it worthwhile even for many of these folks. I think the fact that the queen gets to start laying, producing laying-queen pheromone instead of caged-queen pheromone, makes a big difference. A tip from a sideliner in our local club: do queen transfers in the cab of your pickup (or other confined area) in case she gets loose and decides to try her wings. jimo@eskimo.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 7 May 1995 12:47:21 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Subject: Re: Queen Intrduction Tricks In-Reply-To: <9505071836.AA20918@cuugnet.cuug.ab.ca> On Sun, 7 May 1995, Jim Osborn wrote: > After learning about Push-In queen introduction cages at the WAS-93 > conference at Simon Frasier, I've never had a rejection. I suppose > this cage may be too much hassle for a large commercial operation, > but I suspect the increased acceptance rate makes it worthwhile even > for many of these folks. Particurly for breeder queens. > A tip from a sideliner in our local club: do queen transfers in the > cab of your pickup (or other confined area) in case she gets loose > and decides to try her wings. Another good way is to do it inside a plastic bag like a dry cleaners bag. You put one hand in from each side and watch thru the plastic. Some take a 2 lb bee package, make a hinged cover for the top hole and make 3 or 4 inch round holes in each end into which they insert gloves. The glove openings are then tacked or stapled around the hole and then you have ahandy portable device that allows you to put the queen cage etc in and seal it, then put a hand in each glove and work inside while watching thru the screen. Allen (Yes Adam, I really *am* going out to move the bees. I had to unload the truck first and afterward just happened to wander too close to this computer. As a result, I was sucked into its vortex -- I'm leaving now). W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper VE6CFK Rural Route One Swalwell Alberta Canada T0M 1Y0 Email: dicka@cuug.ab.ca or allend@internode.net Virtual Art Gallery: http://www.cuug.ab.ca:8001/~dicka __________________Why not drop by?____________________ ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 7 May 1995 19:07:47 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Mike Worrell Subject: Gift Packs.. I am interested in purchasing inexpensive wooden display crates that will hold 3-12 0z. Hex jars of honey. Does anyone have any sources that sell assortments of wooden or cardboard display boxes. Mike Worrell - Maryland ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 7 May 1995 21:32:25 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Harmony Farm Subject: Re: hex jars In-Reply-To: <9505060346.AA05915@Aldus.NorthNet.org> Bill Thanks for the information I did not think to ask Mid-Con about pallet prices. They just seemed to think I ordered alot of cases at once and called back to verify the fact. I still would like to find a place closer. The boxes make me think they come from Canada. They read the same as the boxes of jars I have gotten from FW Jones in Toronto. Deb Lisbon, NY On Fri, 5 May 1995, Bill Russell wrote: > Deb- I use almost exclusively Hex jars in by bottling of honey and other > products. I get mine from Mid-Con 1 800 547-1392. They have the cheapest > prices I can find in the volumes that I use. They can be shipped by the pallet > which is cheaper and you might be able to get a discount. I have checked > Hex jar distributers in the US, Canada, and England and this is still the > best price I can get. Hope this helps, if you find cheaper...please share! > -Bill Russell > Bee Charmer's Pure Gathered Honey Products > E-Mail russell@bigvax.alfred.edu Snail mail @ PO Box 1121, Alfred, NY 14802 > ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 7 May 1995 23:13:57 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "La Reine de la Cite' des Phoques (Liz Day)" Subject: please post headings! Comments: To: exotic-l@plearn.edu.pl, lday@IndyNet.indy.net Right now in my mailbox are 7 messages from here and there that have NO header line at all! How can I sort my mail? Please say >something> on your header, to help people who get a lot of mail to deal with it. THANKS. Liz Day lday@indy.net (that's Lday, not ONEday) Now back in Indianapolis, Indiana, USA. Where there are birds and grass and flowers and silence!! I never thought I'd come to love lawns until now. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 May 1995 14:46:00 +0200 Reply-To: DURK ELLISON Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: DURK ELLISON Organization: Metropoli, Finland Subject: BEARS Several of you have inquired about bear damage. Here is the summary of an article printed in the Finnish Beekeepers' magazine "Mehil{inen" 3-1995 reprinted here and on BeeNet with the permission of original author P. Peltotalo and translator P. Ellison. If you have any questions for Mr. Peltotalo please mark your messages Att. P. Peltotalo (BEE-L is gated to BeeNet as read only). His replies I will copy from BeeNet to you. I hope this information will be of some help, Regards, Durk Ellison OH2ZAS BeeNet: 240:2358/100 email: durk.ellison@pcb.mpoli.fi [ bee diseases & cures [[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[B-Int[ Msg : 55 [1-55] >From : Pekka Peltotalo 8-May-95 22:49:43 240:2358/12 To : ALL Subj : BEARS [[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[BEEHEALTH.BIN[ .MSGID: 240:2358/12 db9d4bde .REPLY: 240:2358/100 4c20836a .PID: PPoint 1.88 SUMMARY OF THE 1994 BEAR DAMAGE AND ELECTRIC FENCES Electric fences have been aquired between 1993-1994 with government funds to be given out by the local wildlife departments. Some professional beekeepers had bought electric fences at their own expense, before the government sponsored fences were offered. Information about the efficiency of the electric fences had been collected with an inquiry made in the fall of 1994. Those who answered the inquiry, had about 60 fences protecting approximately 400 hives. There is more detailed information about the agricultural district of H{me in the next paragraph. ______________________________________ The agricultural district of H{me 1994 ______________________________________ Six beekeepers in the district of southern H{me applied for compensation for damages inflicted on their bee farms by a bears. Compensations were paid for over 30 000 mk. Bear damage has been limited for now to the eastern side of highway number three and the Helsinki-Tampere railway. The beekeepers who answered the inquiry had: ___________________________________________ Electric fences in use 21 fences Hives protected 125 hives Damaged hives before/without protection 15 hives Damaged hives with protection 3 hives No damage after protection *) 7 beekeepers Total electric fences used in S. H{me 9 beekeepers *) Paw prints and other bear signs sighted but no damage was inflicted. Usually the damage has stopped after the use of electric fences. In one case the power on the fence had gotten low so that the bear could do its dirty deeds. In another case the bear managed to get under the cables through a ditch twice. _________________ Other experiences _________________ In a few cases electric lights and repellent scents had been used and the hives have been saved from damage (previously there had been bear damage to the area). With these devices, however, the bee farm will not be safe for a long period of time or if all the other farms have electric fences. As the bear, within a relatively short period of time, becomes accustomed to the lights and scents. Total bear damage to bee farms in Finland 1994 (MMM) ____________________________________________________ Agricultural Compensation Hives Paid district Applied for by compensations (mk) H{me 6 15 33 670 Kainuu 1 1 2 000 Central-Finland 2 6 17 600 Kymi 13 36 77 418 Oulu 1 2 3 200 Northern-Karjala 18 41 73 893 Uusimaa 3 8 9 922 Whole country 44 109 217 703 Source: MMM. Fish- and wildlife department, statistics 1994. See also: PELTOTALO, P. 1995. Yhteenveto vuoden 1994 karhuvahingoista ja s{hk|paimensuojauksista. Mehil{inen 12: 46. KARONIEMI, P. 1995. Tavoitteena karhuvahinkojen v{hent{minen. Mehil{inen 12: 47 - 49. .!. BEEKEEPERS DO IT with their HONEY on BeeNet ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 May 1995 07:16:47 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Eric Abell Subject: Re: Where am I? In-Reply-To: > Columbia > > Brazil > Parana State > Sao Paula State > Bahia State > Paraiba State > > Israel > > Europe > Belgium > Netherlands (Holland) > Sweden > Switzerland > Northern Ireland > England > Sheffield > Nottingham > Chester Kent > WalesB > > South Africa > Australia > New Zealand > Mexico > Campeche > Canada > Alberta > Prince Edward Island > New Brunswick > Manitoba > Ontario > Quebec > British Columbia > USA > Virginia > California > Georgia > Oregon > Minnesota > Kentucky > New Hampshire > Florida > Washington > Texas > Wisconsin > Pennsylvania > Indiana > Hawaii > South Carolina > Nebraska > Kansas > New York > Tennessee > Michigan > Illinois > Louisiana > New Mexico > Maryland > Iowa > Ohio > Indiana > Massachusetts > Arkansas > North Carolina > Virgin Islands > Connecticut > This is a list of Countries and some states and provinces that have > participants. If you would like to see your country/state/province > listed simply send me a personal message. Remember, this is just for > interest. You will win no prize and will be on no mailing list. > > Eric Abell > Box 87 > Gibbons, AB T0A 1N0 > Canada > (403) 998 3143 > eabell@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca > > > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 May 1995 09:24:27 U Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Larry Farris Subject: Request for BEE-L Log help Subject: Time:9:12 AM OFFICE MEMO Request for BEE-L Log help Date:5/8/95 I was interested in looking up any past discussions on marking queens (i.e., what type paint to use, technique, etc.) form the old BEE-L logs. When I turned to the list server for Help & INFO, I discovered that the logs were listed by "year/month." Since this is unknown to me, is there a way to look up the appropriate logs "by subject" or "keyword"? If there is a way to do this, would someone please advise me? One further request, I noticed a location for a beekeeper listed in the US Virgin Islands . . . . would that person(s) please contact me / send me their E-mail address? Thanks - ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 May 1995 12:18:40 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Lucy Cronin Subject: mildew on honey frames Have just taken the insulation off of our hives yesterday. Found one hive to have been abandoned, apparently early last fall after honey extraction. There was approximately 80 lbs. of honey in the abandoned hive. There were no dead bees or disease to be found in this hive. (number of dead bees found= 50). We have decided to extract this honey, however, the wax cappings seem to be covered by a greyish film (mildew?) There is no foul smell or smell of mildew. Does anyone know what this is? Do you think we can still safely extract the honey. Some of the honey is still liquid (quite a lot of it) despite -40 degrees F. this winter. Lucy Cronin ldcronin@venus.cambrianc.on.ca ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 May 1995 17:31:48 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Kelley Rosenlund 904-392-5551 Subject: Liability Insurance For you professional floks in bee land, 1. Do you have liability insurance? 2. What is your coverage amount? 3. What insurance company do you have? 4. Have you ever been sued? Kelley rosenlk@freenet.ufl.edu In the metropolis of Gainesville, Florida. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 May 1995 10:25:17 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Mike Bispham <100574.3655@COMPUSERVE.COM> Subject: VARROA Hello members of BEE-L Here in the UK varroa is now endemic. As an ecologically minded hobby beekeeper, I am unsure if I want to continue beekeeping if it means having to treat the hives with insecticide. Does anyone know of alternative treatments? Many thanks Mike Bispham 206 Mongeham Road Deal, Kent (UK) 01304 361311 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 May 1995 01:02:00 GMT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Andy Nachbaur Organization: Wild Bee's BBS Subject: Liability Insurance KR<>From: Kelley Rosenlund 904-392-5551 <>Date: Mon, 8 May 1995 17:31:48 EST <>Subject: Liability Insurance Hello Kelley, KR<>For you professional floks in bee land, <>1. Do you have liability insurance? Definitely YES. Not to have liability insurance today is the same risk you would take in a cat house with out a safety. You may get buy for a while but soon or latter your dead. KR<>2. What is your coverage amount? Enough to satisfy state law and protect my estate, would depend on your net worth. $1,000,000 umbrella is a start. Some home policy's can be extended for a small amount to include a limited liability farm insurance to cover bee's for a small amount. ($75.-$150.) KR<>3. What insurance company do you have? I use Farmer's, but not all company's will write Liability Insurance for beekeepers, check with the American Beekeeping Federation they did have an good insurance underwriter out of Denver who did a good job for beekeeper's. It is normally best to buy your insurance locally if you can. KR<>4. Have you ever been sued? That's what the insurance is for.. once or twice, settled out of court to everyone's satisfaction. #6 If your are someone who want's to sell me insurance and are using this echo to do it..."May your camel's teeth rot out and your mother-in-law move in with you for ever!" ttul Andy- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 May 1995 00:47:00 GMT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Andy Nachbaur Organization: Wild Bee's BBS Subject: mildew on honey frames LC<>From: Lucy Cronin <>Date: Mon, 8 May 1995 12:18:40 -0400 <>Subject: mildew on honey frames LC<>Have just taken the insulation off of our hives yesterday. Found one hive <>to have been abandoned, apparently early last fall after honey extraction. <>There was approximately 80 lbs. of honey in the abandoned hive. There were <>no dead bees or disease to be found in this hive. (number of dead bees fou <>50). We have decided to extract this honey, however, the wax cappings seem <>to be covered by a greyish film (mildew?) There is no foul smell or smell <>mildew. Does anyone know what this is? Do you think we can still safely <>extract the honey. Some of the honey is still liquid (quite a lot of it) <>despite -40 degrees F. this winter. <>Lucy Cronin <>ldcronin@venus.cambrianc.on.ca Hello Lucy, That blue mold is called wax bloom hear about's and is natural. When we use to store wax blocks from one year to the next they all would have it come spring and we would put them out in the hot sun to bleach the blocks before shipment to the candle makers or scrape it off and re-run it in a solar melter. Don't know how it would taste if mixed with extracted honey, as most honey kept here from season to season get's as hard as a bull's rear end and is only used for feed honey ware it does a good job seeding the next years crop with crystallized honey. ttul Andy- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 May 1995 22:16:56 -0800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Mark Jensen Subject: Re: mildew on honey frames >We have decided to extract this honey, however, the wax cappings seem >to be covered by a greyish film (mildew?) There is no foul smell or smell of >mildew. Does anyone know what this is? Do you think we can still safely >extract the honey. This is almost certainly bloom on the wax cappings. Bloom is a poorly understood exudation that comes out of beeswax with time and cooler temperatures. It is very common on capped frames of honey that have sat in abandoned hives. It is odorless and tasteless and wipes off with a cloth. It should not affect the honey at all. Mark Jensen mjensen@crl.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 May 1995 22:20:52 -0800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Mark Jensen Subject: Re: Liability Insurance Comments: To: ROSENLK@mail.firn.edu At 5:31 PM 5/8/95, Kelley Rosenlund 904-392-5551 wrote: >1. Do you have liability insurance? No > >2. What is your coverage amount? $1 million > >3. What insurance company do you have? Roger Starks in Am. Bee Journ. >Continental Ins. > >4. Have you ever been sued? No Mark Jensen-Double J Apiaries mjensen@crl.com Los Altos Hills, CA, USA fax 415 941 3488 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 May 1995 08:21:22 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Aaron Morris Subject: JZBZ queen cages and banking queens? Comments: To: bee-l@ALBANY.BITNET JEAN-PIERRE CHAPLEAU wrote: > " ... the queens get a lot of foot > damage when they are used for banking. I never bank queens but > some of my customers do and I had reports of queens killed while > banked! ...." Well, I'm not too proud to show my ignorance. What is banking a queen? Does one get good interest rates? It sounds like it's keeping queens caged within a hive so the bees will feed her, until she is needed elsewhere? Is this correct? Aaron Morris - I think (but know nothing of banking), therefore I bee! ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 May 1995 14:23:21 +0100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Malcolm Roe Subject: Re: Bees in chimneys. In-Reply-To: from "Allen Dick" at May 7, 95 08:03:47 am Thank you to all who commented or gave suggestions on the problem of bees in chimneys. I thought you might be interested in what happened over the weekend. The problem with my own chimney, which is blocked off at the bottom apart from a small ventilation grill and difficult to access by ladder, was easily sorted out one evening using a whitefly smoke. The only problem I have is that a swarm will inevitably be back in a year or two. I guess, if I want to avoid that, I'll have to borrow some scaffolding and go up there to fit some mesh some time before next spring. Thanks for the tips on mesh sizes. The nearby house was a completely different story. I'd never been there before. When I got there I found it was a large expensive house full of beautiful furnishings and surrounded by tall trees on a 20 acre site. I was envious! The owner said that he knew where the bees were and pointed up to a very inaccessible chimney. There were quite a lot of bees flying around it. Since I couldn't safely get at them from the top I decided I had to use the whitefly smoke method again and kill them. Although there were fireplaces present, I didn't want to try to drive them out by lighting a fire and then catch the resulting swarm because I thought it likely that they'd hang up high in one of the trees where I couldn't reach them. If that happened they'd more than likely return to one of the other chimneys. Unfortunately, the chimney stack contained five flues. I could see right up one and hear the activity up two more. They all had a few bees in them but not enough to make the characteristic hum, so the colony had to be in one of the other two flues which had metal plates fitted inside to block them off. By this time the owner was listening to my chatter about bees and entering in to the spirit of things by starting to act as my assistant, so when we went to the first of the blocked flues in his bedroom he offered to remove the plate. He gave the plate a good push and out it came - followed by a torrent of dust and soot! The carpets, the bed, all the furniture and my "assistant" were covered in dirt. At that point his wife came in, wondering what was going on. I won't repeat what she said! Anyway, after listening it was clear that the colony wasn't up that chimney either so it had to be the other bedroom. We opened up this one too making even more mess but at least this time we had put down plenty of newsaper and dust sheets. Unfortunately, the bees weren't up there either! We went outside again and I looked up. There was another chimney stack at the other end of the building and there were bees flying around this one too. What seemed to be happening was that some of the flying bees were disorientated and returning to the wrong chimney stack. They then circled it for a time before, presumably finding their real home. I was just able to reach the top of this chimney using a ladder. The flue they had chosen had been capped off in the past by cementing two large tiles over it, leaving a small gap. Of all the chimneys on the house it was definately the best from a bees point of view - dark and reasonably dry. Once again I decided I had to kill them for which I used a powder supplied for killing wasps which I puffed into the entrance gap. The lesson is to always check ALL the chimneys before doing anything. -- Malcolm Roe Phone : +44 1442 345104 Crosfield Electronics Ltd Fax : +44 1442 343000 Hemel Hempstead, Herts. HP2 7RH, UK E-mail : roe@crosfield.co.uk ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 May 1995 08:42:09 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jon Dain Subject: subscribing Comments: To: BEE-L%ALBNYVM1@nervm.nerdc.ufl.edu I would like to subscribe to the BEE-L network. My address is jdain@tcd.ufl.edu Thank you, Jonathan Dain, University fo Florida Jonathan Dain Regional Coordinator, MERGE Project University of Florida JDain@tcd.ufl.edu ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 May 1995 16:34:58 +0200 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ivo Jakop Subject: JZBZ cages As i just recently joint the bee-l circle i missed the info on JZBZ cages (description, main advantages etc), so I would appreciaty the sourcee where tis info is available. many thanks ivo jakop ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 May 1995 08:44:11 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Subject: Re: JZBZ cages In-Reply-To: <9505091432.AA43394@cuugnet.cuug.ab.ca> On Tue, 9 May 1995, Ivo Jakop wrote: > As i just recently joint the bee-l circle i missed the info on JZBZ cages > (description, main advantages etc), so I would appreciaty the sourcee > where tis info is available. many thanks this info is available on the LISTSERV@uacsc2.albany.edu. Just send a message with no subject and the word HELP. Act on the info received (after an hour or two) to get more info and the log(s) or do a search for 'JZBZ'. Or do it the easy way. Point your web brouser at http://www.cuug.ab.ca:8001/~dicka and choose the 'bee-l logs' link. The discussion you want is in this months' log, I believe which is there and up to date to the day before yesterday. Search using the key 'JZBZ'. Try some of the other logs too. BUT Do it soon. I have only received *one* comment about the new www setup. If I don't get more feedback *real soon*, I'm going to trim it back. If, on the other hand, I get lots of mail saying how handy it is, I'll expand it and obtain additional space to accommodate it. There is a mailto link right there on the home page to send me feedback by mail -- just by clicking. Those who can, please do. Bouquets and brickbats are equally welcome ;-) Allen W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper VE6CFK Rural Route One Swalwell Alberta Canada T0M 1Y0 Email: dicka@cuug.ab.ca or allend@internode.net Futures, Art & Honey:http://www.cuug.ab.ca:8001/~dicka ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 May 1995 13:41:58 +0000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Gordon@MULTITONE.CO.UK Subject: Re: VARROA Mike Bipsham wrote: > Here in the UK varroa is now endemic. As an ecologically minded > hobby beekeeper, I am unsure if I want to continue beekeeping if > it means having to treat the hives with insecticide. Does anyone > know of alternative treatments? Please Note: I posted recently about some 'soft' chemicals we are using. Someone asked me to expand more. I'm unable to add very much and we're 'just' beekeepers not a research establishment, however I shall report what I can. Gordon ------------------------------------------------------------------ IBRA (ibra@cardiff.ac.uk) supply an information pack on Varroa that makes good & useful reading. Most of the alternative methodologies are fairly labour intensive but feasible. IMHO the main alternatives are: 1) Drone Trapping. Divide a frame into three sections, fit a starter strip of foundation and place this near the outside of the brood nest. The bees will (probably :-) draw drone comb on this (which is what we want). Varroa prefer to lay in drone comb so we can cut these sections out in rotation (one per week) whilst we find a significant infestation. Makes a significant energy loss for the colony as they put a lot of work into the drones we kill. 2) Trapped Queen. Trap the queen onto a (preferably unused) frame using a frame sized cage of QX material to trap her on that frame. A week later transfer her onto another similar frame and do it again. A week later do it again, then remove and destroy the first comb which by now will be sealed. A week later release the queen and destroy comb two, in the final week destroy comb three. A powerful method because the mites have no choice but to lay in the trapped frames. Knocks the colony back a bit though. 3) 'Soft' Chemicals. Debatable what's 'soft'. Formic acid is the 'usual' stuff. It's a natural and degradable pesticide used by ants. It is however pretty nasty stuff for us. Handle with _extreme_ care. Lactic acid (naturally from milk) is used in a lighter concentration (5% sprayed lightly onto the bees & combs) and is supposed to work in a similar but less risky way than Formic. I do know that it knocks down quite a lot of mites. Our Association here (Basingstoke UK) have also been experimenting with icing sugar or french chalk dusted onto the bees & combs. The function of these is supposed to be purely mechanical -- it gets onto the sticky pads on the feet of the mites, they lose their grip and slip off. I've looked pretty closely at quite a few and I think it's true because I can see eight white feet. It seems likely that vigourous fanning by the bees may help this happen. We don't know if there are any side effects -- whilst the materials are pretty benign in themselves, the drying effects may be significant. All these are basically contact only on the adult mites, so treatment is about every four days for four treatments. The IBRA pack offers some other methods including heat treatment. Regards, -- Gordon Scott Gordon@apis.demon.co.uk Compuserve 100332,3310 Gordon@multitone.co.uk Basingstoke Beekeeper Beekeeper@apis.demon.co.uk . QUIT ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 May 1995 14:05:05 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Marc Patry Subject: Re: Liability Insurance In-Reply-To: <9505082242.AA26556@emr1.emr.ca> Why do you want to know? What is the purpose of your enquiry? How about some backgrounder to your questions? ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 May 1995 09:58:00 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Kerry Clark 784-2225 fax (604) 784 2299" Subject: Re: VARROA Mike Over the last month there have been several contributions on BEE-L describing non-chemical varroa controls: Apr 4 Re: Natural products... Apr 28 ANP comb report Apr 28 drone comb method Apr 28 Reference s re drone method May 3 Mite attractants A simpler drone comb method was used by Dr Tibor Szabo at Guelph Ontario (see ABJ Dec 1994 p 838): Day 1: he placed a frame without foundation in position 3 of the brood nest of ( strong) colonies. He placed another comb at day 7 and day 14. Each week from day 21 on, he removed the oldest (day 1) comb and replaced it with another empty frame. The colonies rapidly built drone comb and it was filled with varroa-attracting drone larvae (10:1 worker). These combs of brood were removed and disposed of (they could have been frozen to kill the mites, then thawed and replaced). Up to 12 combs per hive were removed (in itself a drain on the colony's, and the beekeeper's energy) but varroa population remained low. There are many combinations. It would be nice to see an analysis of cost and labour for them. I noticed beside the article on ANP combs (ABJ Feb 91, p 119 (which indicate a reduction in varroa reproduction when using larger diameter worker cells), an ad. for small cell size foundation by Dadant, referring to USDA research from Tucson, that a small cell size may be effective in controlling parasitic mites. I had not heard of this research. Does anyone know the basis for the statement? Kerry Clark, Apiculture Specialist B.C. Ministry of Agriculture 1201 103 Ave Dawson Creek B.C. V1G 4J2 CANADA Tel (604) 784-2225 fax (604) 784-2299 INTERNET KCLARK@GALAXY.GOV.BC.CA ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 May 1995 09:08:00 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Kerry Clark 784-2225 fax (604) 784 2299" Subject: Re: Liability Insurance The British Columbia Honey Producers' Association has arranged a $ 1 million liability insurance for members who pay the fee of $ 7 per year for up to 50 hives, $ 13 for 50 to 200 hives, and $ 16 for more than 200 hives. About half of the 500 members choose to take the insurance. I don't know the carrier, but I think there were a few companies interested when the proposal was made to them. Although I've heard the opinion that stinging incidents would be difficult to "pin" on a particular beekeeper, this insurance has been found helpful by beekeepers who place their hives on others' property. Growers (renting hives) concerned about stinging incidents, forest companies concerned about fires, etc., are comforted when they hear that the beekeeper has liability insurance. It has been at least 10 years since the policy was arranged. I think there has been only one claim paid, an outbuilding burned down from a beekeeper's smoker. Kerry Clark, Apiculture Specialist B.C. Ministry of Agriculture 1201 103 Ave Dawson Creek B.C. V1G 4J2 CANADA Tel (604) 784-2225 fax (604) 784-2299 INTERNET KCLARK@GALAXY.GOV.BC.CA ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 May 1995 15:52:29 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Kelley Rosenlund 904-392-5551 Subject: Re: Liability Insurance The reason I am inquiring about liability insurance is I have decided to get into beekeeping (mainly for pollinating) and I would like to know what the pros on the list do. Any info would be much appreciated. Kelley rosenlk@freenet.ufl.edu Gainesville, Florida. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 May 1995 15:44:14 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Richard Thomas <100305.3411@COMPUSERVE.COM> Subject: How to get data from you Comments: To: BEE-L Please let us know how to look at bulletins on your board Dave Blackwood Dick Blackwood Southend Division EssexBKA & Ancient members of IBRA ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 May 1995 16:15:23 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Subject: Re: VARROA In-Reply-To: <9505091849.AA21228@cuugnet.cuug.ab.ca> On Tue, 9 May 1995, Kerry Clark 784-2225 fax (604) 784 2299 wrote: > > I noticed beside the article on ANP combs (ABJ Feb 91, p 119 (which > indicate a reduction in varroa reproduction when using larger diameter > worker cells), an ad. for small cell size foundation by Dadant, > referring to USDA research from Tucson, that a small cell size may be > effective in controlling parasitic mites. > > I had not heard of this research. Does anyone know the basis for the > statement? Yahoo! I KNEW I shouldn't follow all that wise advice to renew my combs. Those old dark combs in my brood chambers already have a small calibre. ;-) Allen W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper VE6CFK Rural Route One Swalwell Alberta Canada T0M 1Y0 Email: dicka@cuug.ab.ca or allend@internode.net Futures, Art & Honey:http://www.cuug.ab.ca:8001/~dicka ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 May 1995 18:56:41 +1030 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jean-Pierre Chapleau Subject: Re: JZBZ cages In-Reply-To: <199505090001.KAA02487@scuzzy.fmmo.ca> On Tue, 9 May 1995, Ivo Jakop wrote: > As i just recently joint the bee-l circle i missed the info on JZBZ cages > (description, main advantages etc), so I would appreciaty the sourcee > where tis info is available. many thanks > ivo jakop > I will forward to you my original posting on the subject. _______________________________ ~ |_____JEAN-PIERRE CHAPLEAU______| ~ bee breeder |1282, rang 8, Saint-Adrien,| ~ | Quebec, Canada, J0A 1C0 | vice president of the Canadian Honey Council | phone: (819) 828-3396 | ~ ~ | fax: (819) 828-2248 | ~ ~ | chapleau@scuzzy.fmmo.ca | ~ ~ |______________________________~ ~ |__| |__| ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 May 1995 10:06:30 +0100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: johan calis Subject: Varroa In addition to Gordon \ 1) Drone Trapping. \ \ Divide a frame into three sections, fit a starter strip of \ foundation and place this near the outside of the brood nest. \ The bees will (probably :-) draw drone comb on this (which is \ what we want). Varroa prefer to lay in drone comb so we can \ cut these sections out in rotation (one per week) whilst we \ find a significant infestation. Makes a significant energy \ loss for the colony as they put a lot of work into the drones \ we kill. Mite trapping in brood cells will be most effective when all the mites are on the bees. During a broodless period in your swarm prevention method, you can trap the mites from the bees in a drone trapping comb with larvae from the same or another colony. Many variants can be figured out. Important is that in a otherwise broodless colony only 500 drone cells per kg bees (ca. 10.000 bees) will trap over 95% of the mites! \ 2) Trapped Queen. \ \ Trap the queen onto a (preferably unused) frame using a frame \ sized cage of QX material to trap her on that frame. A week \ later transfer her onto another similar frame and do it again. \ A week later do it again, then remove and destroy the first \ comb which by now will be sealed. A week later release the \ queen and destroy comb two, in the final week destroy comb \ three. A powerful method because the mites have no choice but \ to lay in the trapped frames. Knocks the colony back a bit \ though. Worker brood can be treated with formic acid outside the colony. 30 ml 85% formic acid on beer spils together with worker brood combs in one brood chamber sized extrudated polystyreen box (easy to make yourself, use polyurethane glue) sealed airtight for one and half hour will kill the mites and leave the brood undamaged. (The brood has to be at least 9 days old and preferably not older than 18 days). The more worker brood you will treat in this way, the more mites you will kill. Therefore, other age-structuring hive management methods, like queen-arresting in bodies simply with queen excluders can very well be used. Always treat at least three batches of capped brood! Good luck! Johan.Calis@medew.ento.wau.nl ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 May 1995 10:04:58 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: PHILIP EARLE Subject: Re: VARROA hi, I,ve just one small point to make, In the UK varroa is NOT endemic but is still spreading north. Also, Northern Ireland is varroa free as is the whole island of Ireland. The only treatment for varroa in the UK is bavarol strips, their use is detailed on the packet when you buy them. There is no other legal treatment for varroa in the UK. Phil Earle bcg0311@v2.qub.ac.uk ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 May 1995 14:27:58 +0200 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Andreas Kasenides Subject: Swarm prevention methods I would be very interested in hearing from bee keepers what they use for swarm prevention methods. In particular methods that do not need too much messing with the hive would be extra interesting since (as I described in the past) our local bees have an attitute of attacking whatever attempts to open the hive. Thanks Andreas Kasenides ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 May 1995 12:50:47 GMT Reply-To: Gordon@apis.demon.co.uk Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Gordon L. Scott" Subject: Re: subscribing Comments: cc: jdain@tcd.ufl.edu Sent direct and to the list. > I would like to subscribe to the BEE-L network. > My address is jdain@tcd.ufl.edu Send your request to the administration address: listserv@uacsc2.ablany.edu your request should contain the following which will start the subscription process and send you some more help information. subscribe bee-l help Regards, -- Gordon Scott Gordon@apis.demon.co.uk Compuserve 100332,3310 Gordon@multitone.co.uk Basingstoke Beekeeper Beekeeper@apis.demon.co.uk ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 May 1995 12:57:36 GMT Reply-To: Gordon@apis.demon.co.uk Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Gordon L. Scott" Subject: Re: How to get data from you Comments: cc: 100305.3411@compuserve.com Sent direct & to the list. > Please let us know how to look at bulletins on your board > > Dave Blackwood > Dick Blackwood > > Southend Division > EssexBKA > & > Ancient members of IBRA >From Compu$erve, send your request to the administration address: INTERNET:listserv@uacsc2.albany.edu. To subscribe and get further help, send the following in the message body. As you share the account I suggest might be D Blackwood :-) subscribe bee-l help Once your subscription is in place (you have to confirm), I strongly recommend sending a further message to select the 'digests' option as this will help to keep your Compu$erve bill lower. set bee-l digest Regards, -- Gordon Scott Gordon@apis.demon.co.uk Compuserve 100332,3310 Gordon@multitone.co.uk Basingstoke Beekeeper Beekeeper@apis.demon.co.uk ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 May 1995 13:09:58 GMT Reply-To: Gordon@apis.demon.co.uk Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Gordon L. Scott" Subject: Re: Varroa Johan Calis writes: > > Worker brood can be treated with formic acid outside the colony. 30 ml 85% > formic acid on beer spils together with worker brood combs in one brood > chamber sized extrudated polystyreen box (easy to make yourself, use > polyurethane glue) sealed airtight for one and half hour will kill the mites > and leave the brood undamaged. (The brood has to be at least 9 days old and > preferably not older than 18 days). The more worker brood you will treat in > this way, the more mites you will kill. Therefore, other age-structuring hive > management methods, like queen-arresting in bodies simply with queen > excluders can very well be used. Always treat at least three batches of > capped brood! Hi Johan, Thanks for the extra observations. Is the above method of administering formic acid temperature dependent? I know a number are and the dosage can then be a bit tricky. If it is can anyone offer a thumbrule? -- Gordon Scott Gordon@apis.demon.co.uk Compuserve 100332,3310 Gordon@multitone.co.uk Basingstoke Beekeeper Beekeeper@apis.demon.co.uk ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 May 1995 13:16:55 GMT Reply-To: Gordon@apis.demon.co.uk Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Gordon L. Scott" Subject: Re: VARROA Phil Earle writes: > > The only treatment for varroa in the UK is bavarol strips, their use > is detailed on the packet when you buy them. There is no other legal > treatment for varroa in the UK. > I believe this is not quite the full story. Bayvarol is the only varroa treatment product approved for sale in the UK. We are allowed to import *for our own use only*, other products approved elsewhere in Europe for the purpose. This probably leaves us with the situation that the use of icing sugar for varroa treatment is actually illegal under the strict definition of the law. Fortunately I doubt anyone would be charged with an offence ;-) Regards, -- Gordon Scott Gordon@apis.demon.co.uk Compuserve 100332,3310 Gordon@multitone.co.uk Basingstoke Beekeeper Beekeeper@apis.demon.co.uk ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 May 1995 07:08:19 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Subject: Re: Swarm prevention methods In-Reply-To: <9505101128.AA40330@cuugnet.cuug.ab.ca> On Wed, 10 May 1995, Andreas Kasenides wrote: > I would be very interested in hearing from bee keepers what they use for swarm prevention > methods. In particular methods that do not need too much messing with the hive would be extra > interesting since (as I described in the past) our local bees have an attitute of attacking whatever > attempts to open the hive. We don't use any. That is if you don't count supering high and early, and being sure not to crowd the hives at any point early in the season. Or if you don't count requeening any poor colonies or making splits from the stronger ones in the spring to delay 'peaking' and to discourage swarming. Allen W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper VE6CFK Rural Route One Swalwell Alberta Canada T0M 1Y0 Email: dicka@cuug.ab.ca or allend@internode.net Futures, Art & Honey:http://www.cuug.ab.ca:8001/~dicka ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 May 1995 08:26:27 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: WILLIAM G LORD Subject: bee venom use -- WILLIAM G LORD E-Mail : wglord@franklin Internet: wglord@franklin.ces.ncsu.edu Phone : 9194963344 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 May 1995 09:35:42 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Dave Green, Eastern Pollinator Newsletter" Subject: Re: Total Destruction Comments: cc: dave@lydian.scranton.com dave@LYDIAN.SCRANTON.COM (Dave D. Cawley > The bear came back Thursday night in the pouring rain and finished off the rest. There were about 15 bees left when I got there Friday afternoon. There were only two frames that didn't have big holes in the center, those had *HUGE* paw prints in them. The boxes were dumped over and the frames were scattered around the boxes. Only one frame got broken, but it can be repaired. > These guys had it rough, they were a nuc last spring and they swarmed in Spetember and made it through the winter and were building up into a nice colony. Just three weeks short of being a beekeeper for a full year, now I'm back to being a beekeeping equipment keeper...8-{ > I'm pretty bummed. But as someone at work said, "At least it was done for a good reason, not some punk neighborhood kids being jerks." > I can understand what he's saying, but it doesn't help much... Dave, I had the jerks smash up and tip over a bee yard, up in your neck of the woods (near Towanda), and the sheriff mentioned there was a PA program to pay beekeepers for bear damage. You might want to check if this is still active, and if you meet the conditions. I spoiled my chance for reimbursement by showing him the beer bottles. He'd rather have sat in the car at a distance. It would have been a help, but my conscience wouldn't keep quiet. Pollinator@aol.com PO Box 1215, Hemingway, SC 29554 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 May 1995 10:51:07 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Marc Patry Subject: Re: Total Destruction In-Reply-To: <9505101339.AA04111@emr1.emr.ca> Re: Bears I keep my hives in the Gatineau Hills 100km North of Ottawa, Canada. A few years ago, I saw a bear and two cubs a few kilometres from my hives. The pleasure of seeing the bears outweighed the fear I have of bear damage. I concluded that keeping my hives in an area free of pesticide use, free of agricultural production has a risk factor I'm prepared to live with. The area is predominantly forest covered with some significant but underutilized pasture - producing a very light, flowery tasting honey. My hives are located fairly close (150 metres) to a few lakeside cabins. This perhaps acts as a deterrent to bears. Bears are not "jerks" - they're just taking advantage of a fantastic opportunity we are creating for them. May this spring's nectar flow equal that of the mighty Amazon! Marc Patry Hobbyist Near Ottawa, Canada. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 May 1995 13:38:45 -0400 Reply-To: aa2363@freenet.lorain.oberlin.edu Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Kevin R. Palm" Subject: Newsletters?? Dear BEE-L'rs, I was reviewing some of the logs from BEE-l that I retrieved from Allen Dick's Web page and I noticed that in 1993 there were more newsletters than there are now. Whatever happened to New Zealand Buzzwords or the Buzz from the Iowa Department of Agriculture?? Are those newsletters still active?? Just wondering... Kevin R. Palm aa2363@freenet.lorain.oberlin.edu ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 May 1995 08:57:40 -1000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Kevin Roddy Subject: Removing pheremone odor from leather gloves In-Reply-To: <9505100023.AA08082@uhunix4.uhcc.Hawaii.Edu> Hello all-- I've been moving some difficult swarms from under houses and such, and have been using a fairly new set of gloves--occasionally, I've alarmed bees on my gloves, and they've marked my gloves with their alarm odor. I frequently launder my bee suit to wash the pheromone off, but how does one wash leather gloves to the satisfaction of the bees?? (Being a motorcycle rider with a set of riding leathers, I would never wash them.) What set me off to wondering about this was the fact that after I successfully hived them into a clean box with foundation, I would give them a shallow lid full of honey to feed them and the approach of my glove toward the entrance would bring some bees out and they sounded angry. When I used a clean set of gloves to give them honey the same way, no reaction, and a few bees would hop on my gloves out of curiosity. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks! Kevin Roddy Keahialaka, Hawai'i kroddy@uhunix.uhcc.hawaii.edu ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 May 1995 15:32:47 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Marc Patry Subject: Africanized bees In-Reply-To: <9505071717.AA08803@emr1.emr.ca> I'm involved in a beekeeping project in the tropical state of Campeche in the Yucatan Peninsula, Mexico. Until '87, beekeeping was a big thing, practised by everyone and his dog. It provided a good source of income for relatively little effort (keeping 12 hives in rural Mexico provides one with the equivalent of a minimum wage salary). After the arrival of africanized bees, most beekeepers in my area gave up. The bees were too much of a hassle, required too much care, it was too hot working with all that protective gear in the tropical climate. They are trying to re-introduce the practice of beekeeping now. I'd like to know if anyone can direct me to any resource (people, publications etc.) that they have found particularly useful in dealing with africanized bees (genetics, management...) Also, the locals there always place their hive in full sunlight. I suggested they provide some shade and they refused, saying that hive don't do well under the forest canopy. Anyone ever heard of this? Cheers, Marc Patry Ottawa ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 May 1995 12:57:14 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Henri E. T. Wetselaar" Subject: Re: Removing pheremone odor from leather gloves In-Reply-To: <199505101905.MAA19464@vifa1.freenet.victoria.bc.ca> i've come across the use of clove oil in Eastern Europe as means of warding off bees from the beekeeper. May i suggest summering cloves in water and using that solution on the cloves if clove oil is expensive ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 May 1995 17:54:49 GMT Reply-To: ibra@matheson.demon.co.uk Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: ibra Subject: Varroa Phil Earle writes: > > The only treatment for varroa in the UK is bavarol strips, their use > is detailed on the packet when you buy them. There is no other legal > treatment for varroa in the UK. > Gordon Scott answered: I believe this is not quite the full story. Bayvarol is the only varroa treatment product approved for sale in the UK. We are allowed to import *for our own use only*, other products approved elsewhere in Europe for the purpose. True, but in the interests of accuracy (though not wishing to be pedantic), I believe this should refer to other products approved elsewhere in the European Union. This probably leaves us with the situation that the use of icing sugar for varroa treatment is actually illegal under the strict definition of the law. I think this is correct, as it might be for talc. Andrew Matheson ibra@matheson.demon.co.uk ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 May 1995 16:02:16 GMT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: MEMO 1995/05/10 16:13 From: John E III Taylor Subject: Re: Africanized bees Marc-- Dr. Dewey Caron, the Delaware State Entomologist and instructor at the University of Delaware, has done some work with managing Africanized bees in Costa Rica. Last time I looked, he had an e-mail address that could be found by geographical Gopher search of USA/Delaware/U of Delaware. His comment, at a lecture for the state beekeepers' organization, was also that most of the old-time beekeepers gave up, but that newcomers, trained in handling the Africanized bees from the start, had few problems. He also noted that after a few years of management they began seeing moderated aggressiveness (that's encouraging for Mexico and the southern US). John E. Taylor III W3ZID | "The opinions expressed are those of the E-Mail: mah48d@rohmhaas.com | writer and not of Rohm and Haas Company." _______________________________________________________________________________ Subject: Africanized bees From: SMTP.BEEL1 at ROHMAIL Date: 5/10/95 3:35 PM I'm involved in a beekeeping project in the tropical state of Campeche in the Yucatan Peninsula, Mexico... They are trying to re-introduce the practice of beekeeping now. I'd like to know if anyone can direct me to any resource (people, publications etc.) that they have found particularly useful in dealing with africanized bees (genetics, management...) ... Marc Patry Ottawa ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 May 1995 10:18:45 +1200 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Murray Reid Subject: Introduced weeds... -Reply Thanks for new address * Teds chuffed you can get to him on EM...the marvels of electronic whatnots still amaze him..me too for that matter. * Doc..Andrew in B mail newsletter had a report of a paper from Moller et al on effects of bees in honeydew country. * With Doc we are considered guilty without any evidence ie Honey bees spread ling...no bees in Waiouru but plenty of ling. Suggest strength of our argument is that the onus shd be on Doc to prove that bees are deleterious or there is benefit to envir/economy etc from banning bees rather than bkprs having to rpove there is no harm from having bees there. * suggest Doc shd be spending more time on enhancing eco tourism and strengthening platforms rather that banning bees from parks.!!!!!! * Register..info from Baderley yest was that PMS's won't be in place before 9/96 and provisions in Bio Act will most likely be rolled over. However the thrust of govt policy remains to reduce imputs esp to NASS business.So we have to continue working towards industry funding. What NABU sort from Badderley was an assurance that he wld work on our behalf to ensure the CVO/RA did not take unilateral action to cut the register or support for apiculture. EDPR has 3 components Bees,animals (vesicular diseases) and hortic (fruitfly). The register is currently funded under the Sirveillance vote. We reinforced again the fact tht the register is used in EDPR,Surveill, exports certn and AFB contract.Removing the register is easy bu the rammifications need to be thought htrough carefully esp export certn. We asked Badderkley to keep the discussions with RA generic and that the rumored reductions from RA of 1-5% be addressed after the extent of the cuts are known. We will absorb our share of the cuts but don't want to get cut off at the neck. RA are not being very helpful at the moment..they want cuts but still want all services maintained.Negotiations are continuing over the next week or two. Industry imput will be needed to help secure our place in the sun. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 May 1995 11:24:41 +1200 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Murray Reid Subject: Introduced weeds... - Reply Apologies to B-Line group. I recently sent a reply to a colleague which went out on the B -Line under the heading of 'Introduced weeds...' instead of directly to his EMail address. I had 3 messages from my friend all together including his personal address, and wouldn't you know it I had to reply to the wrong one. I tried to recall the message but too late....Again my apologies. Murray Reid. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 May 1995 18:32:34 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Doug Yanega Subject: Re: Africanized bees >Marc-- > > Dr. Dewey Caron, the Delaware State Entomologist and instructor at the >University of Delaware, has done some work with managing Africanized bees in >Costa Rica. Last time I looked, he had an e-mail address that could be found >by geographical Gopher search of USA/Delaware/U of Delaware. > > His comment, at a lecture for the state beekeepers' organization, was also >that most of the old-time beekeepers gave up, but that newcomers, trained in >handling the Africanized bees from the start, had few problems. He also noted >that after a few years of management they began seeing moderated >aggressiveness (that's encouraging for Mexico and the southern US). This is essentially the same tale told by Marla Spivak, who worked on the AHB while at the University of Kansas under Chip Taylor. Last I knew, she was in Arizona, and she has a LOT of experience working with Latin American beekeepers. Cheers, Doug Yanega Illinois Natural History Survey, 607 E. Peabody Dr. Champaign, IL 61820 USA phone (217) 244-6817, fax (217) 333-4949 "There are some enterprises in which a careful disorderliness is the true method" - Herman Melville, Moby Dick, Chap. 82 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 May 1995 22:09:21 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Brian Tassey Subject: Re: JZBZ cages Jean-Pierre, I have purchased about 1200 queens from Kohnens using their new cage. It beats using the three-hole cage by a mile. It's easier to introduce, remove, and bank mainly because of it's size. The candy tube is totally affected by the candy formula though. I've gone back to using masking tape to ensure release and have them just cork the ends and leave out the tube. It's funny that you are comparing the JZBZ because I was going to give them a trial this summer. Brian Tassey Kaykin@aol.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 May 1995 20:52:48 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ann Dougherty Subject: Combining Nuc In-Reply-To: <9505110210.AA17788@mx4.u.washington.edu> I'm letting the bees produce a queen in a nuc to stock an observation hive. After I remove the frame with the queen cell on it and put it in the observation hive,can I put the remaining frames back in the parent hive? Or should I combine using the newspaper method? Does a queen cell produce pheromones enough to give a nuc its distinctive odor? Ann ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 May 1995 03:12:25 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ron Harriger Subject: Re: Removing pheremone odor from leather gloves Hi I wash them ! :-) I do bee removals just for the fun of it, (My wife does not like the idea) and my gloves get covered with honey, bees (both dead and live ones) and other kinds of dirt. When I am finished for the day I put them on and use a liquid hand soup (mild) and wash them as I would my hands. I let the gloves air dry for a couple of days and then treat them with a water repellant that contains bees wax. I believe the product name is SNOW-GO. So far it has not hurt the leather gloves or has had an any affect on the bees. One good thing that I like about this process is that the gloves remain soft. Ron H. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 May 1995 04:53:26 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ron Harriger Subject: ENTERTAINMENT CENTER Fellow Bee keepers, I just finished setting up a new entertainment center but it appears that I will not be able to use it for a while. It is disappointing to work on a project like this for months and then have the enjoyment put off until later. I could take the blame for this delay but it is fashionable in our society to place the blame elsewhere, so, I will do the same. I am going to blame the infamous mite (you pick which one). These mites have caused nearly all of the providers of package bees to be booked up for the season. This is good for them but not so good for me. You see, my entertainment center is an observation hive (four frames high) and all set to go. It appears I will have to wait to either catch a swarm (not likely if the mites kill all the wild bees) or take a frame of brood and adhering bees from one of my existing hives once the hives have grown substantially. Some of you may be wondering what is wrong with my T.V. Nothing ! but as my neighbor so aptly put it, "there is so much puss coming out of the T.V. that it is no longer healthy to watch it." Bee keeping is more exciting and interesting anyway. Ron Harriger Cambridge Springs Pa. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 May 1995 03:58:33 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Subject: Rambling on about leather bee gloves, fire, water. etc. In-Reply-To: <9505110711.AA38760@cuugnet.cuug.ab.ca> > I wash them ! :-) I do bee removals just for the fun of it, (My wife > does not like the idea) and my gloves get covered with honey, bees (both > dead and live ones) and other kinds of dirt. When I am finished for the day > I put them on and use a liquid hand soup (mild) and wash them as I would > my hands. I let the gloves air dry for a couple of days and then treat them We don't wash our gloves very often -- altho some of our people wear them all day, every day -- but when we do, we throw them into a washing machine on normal cycle. If they are hard when they dry out after that, we use a _little_ neetsfoot oil (made from the feet of neet (cows) and bought at the Home Hardware store) like hand lotion to soften them up. In the interim, a quick dip or two into the water bucket and a rubbing together without soap removes most honey or syrup and grunge. Being damp doesn't make them uncomfortable -- au contraire. If no neetsfoot oil is handy and the gloves won't even go on because they are stiff, a quick dip into the water bucket we carry with us makes them pliable without soaking them. An aside on water pails: We always carry a 2 1/2 gallon pail of water or two on our truck. It serves many purposes: * One can dip dirty hands into it and then rub them til clean(er) *beside* the pail (not over or in the pail in the fashion natural to almost every new kid I hire). Managed properly, the water will stay fairly clean all day. * One can use the water bucket and its contents to put out a fire caused by careless emptying of a smoker. * One can pour it (if still clean) over the head of oneself or one's partner while still fully dressed in a bee suit on a hot hot summers day -- resulting in a much refreshed state. You dry out fairly quickly after. We don't wear (many) clothes under a bee suit in summer. We had an occasion to use it for several above purposes the other day. I had occasion to sell some splits to a neighbouring Hutterite colony on Monday, and their beeman came to help us make them up; he brought along a youth to assist him. (More on splits in another article coming soon). The young fellow couldn't get the gloves on they were so hard and deformed. The quick dip in the bucket fixed that. At the end of the job, we we tying down our load when we suddenly noticed smoke coming from an inverted lid in which we had accumulated scrapings (We always pick them up, not to prevent robbing which doesn't worry us (much), but to keep them from building up on our shoes, which is most annoying). To our surprise, the young fellow had emptied his smoker -- which he had assumed was out -- onto the scrapings, and the burlap had re-ignited. We then used the water (sparingly) to douse the fire. A warning here about burlap or other fuel. It is amazing how fast it can explode into flame from the slightly smouldering state when exposed to air. We sometimes light a second smoker form a first, but it is a dangerous practice. I once got a painful burn trying to transfer (apparently barely burning) fuel from one to the next on a hot windy day. It caught flame in the seconds it took to pull it out of one and drop it into the other. Back to gloves: there are many kinds of gloves on the market. The goatskin ones cost a little more and wear out faster, but are worth the slight extra expense. There are also ventillated gloves with some mesh around the wrists that are *much* cooler on hot days. I have (and my staff almost invariably have) trouble with one feature of almost all the gloves we have encounered: for some reason, the manufactureres always attach the 'hands' at the wrong angle to the 'arms'. This results in the small fingers on the gloves working off the fingers and hanging a bit at the end. It is most annoying and most pronounced in the cheaper, thicker gloves. W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper VE6CFK Rural Route One Swalwell Alberta Canada T0M 1Y0 Email: dicka@cuug.ab.ca or allend@internode.net Futures, Art & Honey:http://www.cuug.ab.ca:8001/~dicka ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 May 1995 07:49:02 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Logan Vanleigh Subject: Re: Removing pheremone odor from leather gloves >Hi > I wash them ! :-) [snip] >I put them on and use a liquid hand soup (mild) and wash them as I would >my hands. A better treatment would be saddle soap. Specially formulated for leather. Wash the same way. Logan ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 May 1995 13:02:25 +0100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Malcolm Roe Subject: Re: Removing pheremone odor from leather gloves In-Reply-To: <199505111149.HAA11078@cosmail4.ctd.ornl.gov> from "Logan Vanleigh" at May 11, 95 07:49:02 am As has been said by others, I find no problem washing my gloves occasionally but here's another useful tip. When dealing with bad tempered bees which start stinging my gloves I puff smoke over them (the gloves, that is). The smell of the smoke seems to cover up the smell of the stings quite effectively. Anyway, the stinging stops. -- Malcolm Roe Phone : +44 1442 345104 Crosfield Electronics Ltd Fax : +44 1442 343000 Hemel Hempstead, Herts. HP2 7RH, UK E-mail : roe@crosfield.co.uk ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 May 1995 06:09:25 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Eric Abell Subject: Re: Where am I? In-Reply-To: A subscriber has suggested that this list is 'off-topic' and is simply a nuisance that subscribers must delete (often at a cost). There have been a number of positive comments also but I see no need to upset even one subscriber (and I suspect there are others who would rather no see this message). I have updatged the list only when subscribers have asked that their state/province/country be added. I will now hold back the update and add several at one time and post the list less often. My apologies to anyone who has been inconvenienced by these postings. This is the list up-to-date and pretty much in the order received. > > > Columbia > > > > Brazil > > Parana State > > Sao Paula State > > Bahia State > > Paraiba State > > > > Israel > > > > Europe > > Belgium > > Netherlands (Holland) > > Sweden > > Switzerland > > Northern Ireland > > England > > Sheffield > > Nottingham > > Chester > Kent > > Wales > > > > South Africa > > Australia > > New Zealand > > Mexico > > Campeche Sweden Slovenia > > Canada > > Alberta > > Prince Edward Island > > New Brunswick > > Manitoba > > Ontario > > Quebec > > British Columbia Saskatchewan > > USA > > Virginia > > California > > Georgia > > Oregon > > Minnesota > > Kentucky > > New Hampshire > > Florida > > Washington > > Texas > > Wisconsin > > Pennsylvania > > Indiana > > Hawaii > > South Carolina > > Nebraska > > Kansas > > New York > > Tennessee > > Michigan > > Illinois > > Louisiana > > New Mexico > > Maryland > > Iowa > > Ohio > > Indiana > > Massachusetts > > Arkansas > > North Carolina > > Virgin Islands > > Connecticut > Missouri > > This is a list of Countries and some states and provinces that have > > participants. If you would like to see your country/state/province > > listed simply send me a personal message. Remember, this is just for > > interest. You will win no prize and will be on no mailing list. > > > > Eric Abell > > Box 87 > > Gibbons, AB T0A 1N0 > > Canada > > (403) 998 3143 > > eabell@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca > > > > > > > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 May 1995 08:32:00 CST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Matt Ter Molen Subject: Re: Africanized bees I worked for 3 years with Africanized Bees in Honduras while in the Peace Corps. I would be happy to share with you some materials (in English as well as Spanish) that will be helpful. I could mail you those as well as e-mail you some info. re. management, hive locations, equipment, etc... Please let me know. Matt Ter Molen. Chicago, IL. dwbmjtm@uchimvs1.uchicago.edu ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 May 1995 13:15:00 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "David F. Verville" Subject: Introducing Queens Comments: To: att!BEE-L@UACSC2.ALBANY.EDU Recently I made an observation within a couple of my hives. I split several big healthy colonies. I waited 24 to 48 hours before introducing a new queen. (Within the breeder's shipping cage.) What I observed was during that time of queenlessness, the hive went into chaos. Nectar, pollen and water were being stored in every open cell and in no apparent order. Areas where brood had recently emerged were quickly being filled with stores. Some of the cells were partially filled others filled to the top. The queen was accepted and after 10 days I did not see any eggs. I surmise that she had no place to begin laying. She aimlessly walked about, laying an egg in what ever empty cell she could. However, there was no pattern or nest development. It wasn't until the capped brood frame began to emerge before the queen started to lay in a generally acceptable pattern. Up until this time I also noticed that the queen's abdomen hadn't extended very much. Because of what I observed, I am rethinking my queen introductions process. David Verville att!mvtowers!mvdfv ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 May 1995 10:40:53 -0700 Reply-To: uc779@freenet.victoria.bc.ca Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Conrad A. Berube" Subject: African bees Comments: To: mpatry@EMR1.EMR.CA >I'm involved in a beekeeping project in the tropical state of Campeche in >the Yucatan Peninsula, Mexico... >They are trying to re-introduce the practice of beekeeping now. I'd like >to know if anyone can direct me to any resource (people, publications >etc.) that they have found particularly useful in dealing with >africanized bees (genetics, management...) Marc, I worked with African bees in Guatemala, Honduras, Ecuador, and Paraguay. Some of the best resources for beekeepers (as opposed to researchers) are: Gentry, Curtis. 1984. La Apicultura de Peque~a Escala. (translated by Elizabeth Carico) Manual No. M-25. Peace Corps, Office of Information Collection and Exchange. Washington, D.C. Bailey, Robert and Douglas Anderson. 1986. Manual No. R-61. Peace Corps, Office of Information Collection and Exchange. Washington, D.C. If you are working on a development project you would likely be able to get copies of these publications by writing to the above office on the official letterhead of your organization. The address of Peace Corps' I.C.E. office used to be 806 Connecticut Avenue, N.W.; Washington, D.C. 20526 but I think they may have moved (I'm sure the address would work nonetheless). The latter manual was written as a companion guide to: Spence, Joaquin. 1982. La Apicultura, Como Trabajar con las Abejas. Ediciones FENACOAC. 3a. Avenida 17-40 Zona 1. Guatemala Ciudad, Guatemala. (phone: 536-628 ) This book may also be available from I.C.E. if you can't get through to the publsher. I've got a much larger bibliography on the subject if you're interested but it's on the hard disk of my desk top which is in the shop for an upgrade-- if you'd like a copy send me a note by direct e-mail and I'll get it to you as soon as possible. BTW-- I prefer to say African bees because last I heard the DNA of migrating swarms was something like 98% African. I imagine that could change with time since the bees at the forefront of the wave of expansion might likely be those with the highest proportion of African derived genetic material (the most "swarmy"). Anybody know of any DNA analysis done (on feral bees) in areas where the AHB has been established for a while? Bee well, - Conrad Berube " ` ISLAND CROP MANAGEMENT " ` 1326 Franklin Terrace _- -_`-_|'\ /` Victoria, B.C. _/ / / -' `~()() V8S 1C7 \_\ _ /\-._/\/ (604)480-0223; fax (604)656-8922 / | | email: uc779@freenet.victoria.bc.ca. '` ^ ^ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 May 1995 14:25:38 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Dave Green, Eastern Pollinator Newsletter" Subject: Pollinator Population Clues Bee people are always observing, always thinking, which is a very good thing. Sometimes we miss things, though, because we don't know what to look for, or it simply doesn't occur to us.. You can roughly evaluate the pollinator populations in your area by using some observation techniques. (You may, like me, then become very concerned as to what is happening to them.) Direct Observation: Find a common flower that is very attractive to bees. Blackberry is good in the spring; goldenrod or aster in the fall. Locate patches with roughly the same dimensions, say 10 x 10 feet (or 100 square feet) of good bloom. During the time of forage activity, count the number of honeybees you see in one minute. Do it several times, and average. Then count carpenter bee, bumble bees, solitary bees, etc. Repeat at other locations. A half day spent at that kind of activity will tea ch you a lot. Observing Results: Direct observation has some drawbacks, the worst being that you have to mak e time at the right time. Saturday afternoon just might have a rain or be cold and windy. So we can do secondary checks. All across the southeast the wild plum is ripening now. It is very common in patches along the edges of fields and forests, and the yellow fruit is easy to spot from the road. (Very tasty, too, although too much of a good thing can lead to some quick stepping.) Around my bee yards each year, unless the bloom gets frosted, the fruit hangs heavy. In open country, I can drive along and usually spot where honeybees are kept, simply by watching the yellow plums. In some areas of Georgia and South Carolina this past week, I could drive for many miles without seeing a single fruit. Other spots were just like around my bee yards. If I had time, I'm sure I could track down the bee colonies responsible. Do you have such an indicator plant in your area? It's not really science, just observation. But to do science, you'd have to have a wad of money, and you'd have to have *peer review,* which means your colleagues get to agree, or shoot you down. Good scientific experiments eliminate all variables possible, except the one studied, have controls, etc., and may give information that is 90% valid for 15 or 20 thousand bucks. You can get information that is 70% valid for a few hours observation and a little gas. If we refine our techniques a bit, and all put our results together, we might get the 90% validity, too. I just wanted to get the creative juices flowing. E-mail to me and I'll post a summary of communitiy thoughts on this. Pollinator@aol.com Dave Green PO Box 1215, Hemingway, SC 29554 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 May 1995 14:48:57 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Paul Madden Subject: Packaged Bees Timetable? Comments: To: BEE-L This past weekend opened two new packages (3 lb, w/ queen), for the first time after 3 years (the mite devastation and subsequent wax moth infestation took that long to heal). I forgot a lot of what I used to know about when housecleaning and syrup feeding are generally over with and pollen collecting gets going in earnest.I'm really just interested in a rough timetable; after all the bees will tell me all I need to know in time. I'd just like to be a little ahead of that relearning curve. Thanks. -- Paul Madden pm6f@virginia.edu http://poe.acc.virginia.edu/~pm6f ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 May 1995 16:57:35 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ann Dougherty Subject: Bumble Bee Hive In-Reply-To: <9505111851.AA19355@mx4.u.washington.edu> Does anyone know how to put together a Bumble Bee Hive? A friend has a nest of Red rumped Bumble Bees in his back yard in the ground. I recall reading a small hive can be built to house them. I'm mostly interested in just observing them. They sure are beautiful bees. any suggestions would be appreciated. Ann ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 12 May 1995 01:25:52 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: John Carver Subject: Re: The Frugal Beekeeper We have used the menthol cough drops for 3 years. (also grease patties). The menthol had to be applied while the weather was still warm after the honey was harvested. The bees ate the cough drops. Some brands of cough drops contain stronger doses of menthol than others, so it pays to read the label. Our bees succumbed to the varroa mite, however, this last winter. Sue Carver Richland, WA ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 May 1995 20:19:11 -1000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Kevin Roddy Subject: how to handle drone colonies and laying workers colonies In-Reply-To: <9505110712.AA12990@uhunix4.uhcc.Hawaii.Edu> Thanks to all for the suggestions for pheromone removal from gloves! I have two other questions that I have tried to find answers for but have not. I have heard that some colonies in which the queen has somehow been killed have developed laying workers who try to fill in for the dead queen but cannot of course lay fertilized eggs. I've searched the literature to find out exactly how this problem is initially recognized without intruding, and how is the problem rectified. Books I have consulted have said that any introduced queen into such a colony will most probably be killed. Must the entire colony be destroyed? Question one's answer will probably answer question two. If some workers do acquire laying capabilities and produce a large drone colony, how to fix without destroying the colony? Thanks for any solutions you may have... One last observation--I've hived two swarms, and both have been hived for approximately a week now--one seems to like to hang out on the bottom board--I thought that maybe this hive had an extraordinary amount of guard bees--I checked quickly three days after installing and found bees drawing comb in one of the frames. Its too soon for them to think about swarming, especially if they're drawing comb. Do some colonies like to hang out on the bottom board as a matter of course? I am seeing some foraging going on, but the weather has been wet and overcast, though warm. Am I worrying too much? kevin kroddy@uhunix.uhcc.hawaii.edu ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 May 1995 13:31:59 GMT Reply-To: Gordon@apis.demon.co.uk Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Gordon L. Scott" Subject: leather bee gloves etc. Hi, Another thought on glove maintenance. I use very thin 'surgical' type gloves over either my hands or my leather gloves and replace them between apiaries. This is mostly for hygiene reasons (the foulbrood's may be more of a worry in the UK because of the risk of standstill notices and/or mandatory destruction). The gloves 'surical' do however keep the rubbish off my leather gloves, which remain pretty clean. Downside -- they get hot and sweaty! Regards, -- Gordon Scott Gordon@multitone.co.uk Gordon@apis.demon.co.uk ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 12 May 1995 07:25:36 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: c deaves <100425.1553@COMPUSERVE.COM> Subject: Laying Workers Laying workers arise as the result of the loss of a queen in a colony with no suitable eggs to be made into a supercedure queen. It is suspected that queen pheremone supresses egg-laying behaviour in the workers and the loss of the queen removes this supression. The signs are: a) no queen b) general queenless behaviour c) often, a small colony size d) THE POSITION OF WORKER-LAID EGGS. These are about 1/2 way down the sidewall of the cell, not at the apex, as the worker can't reach the bottom. The eggs will be drones. Treatment: Re-queening is not too reliable, as the colony is in a mode where it is creating its own queen. One solution is to introduce a 'scratch' (low-cost, non valuable) queen or capped queen cell to give the colony a queen on a temporary basis and once she is established, re-queen properly using your lucky method. Otherwise, you can try and unite the affected colony with one that is queen-right, to save the workers for use. Chris Deaves Twickenham & Thames Valley BKA. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 12 May 1995 13:43:56 +0100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Malcolm Roe Subject: Re: Laying Workers In-Reply-To: <950512112535_100425.1553_BHG131-1@CompuServe.COM> from "c deaves" at May 12, 95 07:25:36 am Regarding a laying worker hive, Chris Deaves wrote: > Otherwise, you can try and unite the affected colony with one that is > queen-right, to save the workers for use. I ususally just shake all the bees off the frames onto the ground in front of a queen-right hive. It's less bother than the other, standard methods of uniting and I've never known it fail. You loose the brood, of course, but that's no great loss since it's entirely small drones. -- Malcolm Roe Phone : +44 1442 345104 Crosfield Electronics Ltd Fax : +44 1442 343000 Hemel Hempstead, Herts. HP2 7RH, UK E-mail : roe@crosfield.co.uk ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 12 May 1995 08:55:46 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: John Oldfather Subject: Re: how to handle drone colon... I have had 2 experiences with laying worker colonies. Re-queening such colonies did not work for me. However, the following procedure was successful: I dismantled the colonies and moved the deeps approx. 100 yards away from the original hive location. I brushed all off the frames and other parts into the grass. I re-assembled the empty colony on the original hive site and installed a caged queen between frames in the usual manner. The bulk of the bees returned to the hive. In a week's time the queen had been released and accepted. The hives went on to be normal, productive, queen-right colonies. In answer to your first question: I have identified laying worker colonies when there is an excessive number of drones and there is no <> brood and I see only drone brood and the pattern is spotty and irregular. You may also see multiple eggs per cell and the eggs may be situated oddly, such as, to the side of the cell. Hope this is helpful. John Oldfather Joldfather@aol.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 12 May 1995 07:29:21 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Eric Abell Subject: Re: how to handle drone colonies and laying workers colonies In-Reply-To: <9505120607.AA55015@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca> On Thu, 11 May 1995, Kevin Roddy wrote: > Thanks to all for the suggestions for pheromone removal from gloves! > > I have two other questions that I have tried to find answers for but have > not. > > I have heard that some colonies in which the queen has somehow been > killed have developed laying workers who try to fill in for the dead > queen but cannot of course lay fertilized eggs. I've searched the > literature to find out exactly how this problem is initially recognized > without intruding, and how is the problem rectified. Books I have > consulted have said that any introduced queen into such a colony will > most probably be killed. Must the entire colony be destroyed? > > Question one's answer will probably answer question two. If some workers > do acquire laying capabilities and produce a large drone colony, how to > fix without destroying the colony? Thanks for any solutions you may have... > I wish I had a better solution but... If you can find the laying worker - great. The trouble is, I cannot find her. My treatment is to carry the hive a few yards away and shake ALL of the bees into the grass. I then destroy most of the drone brood and return the hive to the old stand with a frame of brood containing eggs. The theory here is that the worker (or old queen) laying the eggs will not be able to fly (or fly as well) and will not make it back to the hive. If it works, terrific. If not, at least there has not been a big investment of time or materials. Eric Abell email: eabell@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca Gibbons, AB, T0A 1N0 Canada (403) 998 3143 > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 12 May 1995 07:40:06 PDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Adrian Wenner Subject: Re: Removing pheremone odor from leather gloves Comments: To: Discussion of Bee Biology Henri E. T. Wetselaar wrote: >I've come across the use of clove oil in Eastern Europe as means of >warding off bees from the beekeeper. May I suggest simmering cloves in >water and using that solution on the cloves if clove oil is expensive A couple of decades ago, an old Russian beekeeper friend told me of this use of clove oil as a substitute for smoke in handling colonies. We found that it works quite well if one spreads a thin solution on the hands and arms (if bare armed as I often am). By diluting the rather expensive clove oil with 95% ethanol, one can "stretch" its use, and then it becomes quite affordable. At one time I was going to camouflage (mask) the clove odor with some other essences, patent the idea, and sell the substance under the trade name "E-Z-B." Now, however, the "cat is out of the bag" and anyone can follow suit. Adrian *************************************************************** * Adrian Wenner E-Mail wenner@lifesci.lscf.ucsb.edu * * Department of Biology Office Phone (805) 893-2838 * * University of California Lab Phone (805) 893-2838 * * Santa Barbara, CA 93106 FAX (805) 893-4724 * *************************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 12 May 1995 14:56:08 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Terry Yawn Subject: Re: Bumble Bee Hive Comments: To: Discussion of Bee Biology In-Reply-To: <199505120150.VAA42915@freenet2.freenet.ufl.edu> About 3 weeks ago, I found a wild hive of bumble bees inside a folded-over piece of carpeting I had put in my dog's house. When I opened the rug to put it straight, I was buzzed by about 7 medium to large bumble bees, but noticed another 6 or so small bumble bees not yet able to fly crawling around on the carpet near what appeared to be a pollen-covered clutch of midget grapes. Closer exam revealed these to be the free-form hive. I re-folded the carpet, and returned it to its original position, and monitored their progress daily. All but 3 (fatalities) of the bees eventually disappeared, presumably into the nearby fields and woods. It was interesting to observe their habits, which did not noticeably differ from that expected. It may be of interest that their hive was immediately adjacent to a small garden plot of winter mustard that was in flower and going to seed. Terry Yawn voice phone (904) 335-3930 Theron A. Yawn III, Esq. SFCC Office A-07 395-5031 3150-A NW 79th Court Office Hours: TBA Gainesville, FL 32606-6252 e-mail: afn08939@freenet.ufl.edu.us THE ULTIMATE ANSWER TO ALL SOCIAL PROBLEMS IS:...PUT EDUCATION FIRST!!! On Thu, 11 May 1995, Ann Dougherty wrote: > Does anyone know how to put together a Bumble Bee Hive? A friend > has a nest of Red rumped Bumble Bees in his back yard in the ground. I > recall reading a small hive can be built to house them. I'm mostly > interested in just observing them. They sure are beautiful bees. any > suggestions would be appreciated. > > > Ann > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 12 May 1995 13:23:00 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Kerry Clark 784-2225 fax (604) 784 2299" Subject: Re: Bumble Bee Hive There are professional ways to rear bumblebee colonies, but I tried a very simple method in a situation such as you describe, and it worked fine. A friend had a bumble bee nest in the rocks where his 2 and 4 year old had their sandbox, so the decision to moved the nest was made. I had a clear plastic package from the supermarket bakery: like a clam shell, about 6 x 4 x 4 inches. I stapled one side of the package in a sheltered spot just ouside a window, where we could watch. I stapled a piece of cloth, draping over the clear plastic for shade and insulation. I put a 3/4 inch hole in the box for an entrance. I used another plastic container to carry the nest. I had my bee veil and some rubber gloves. I moved some rocks and found the nest in an old mouse nest. I picked it up and put it in the container, with the large queen and about 20 smaller bumblebees, and covered it with a cloth, then I waited for 20 or so other bees to return to the nest spot, where I picked them one at a time and popped them into another container. I took the whole works home, put them in the clear box on the post, and released the bees. Within a couple of hours they were foraging as if they had been there all along. When the kids wanted to see them, I'd lift up the cloth and we would watch them a while. In a few days they had built a cover over the cluster of cells, and we couldn't see much except the foragers. The colony did alright for maybe 6 weeks, until September. Then the activity decreased and when I last looked there were quite a few mites running around in the nest material, but no bees. It was nice while it lasted. Kerry Clark, Apiculture Specialist B.C. Ministry of Agriculture 1201 103 Ave Dawson Creek B.C. V1G 4J2 CANADA Tel (604) 784-2225 fax (604) 784-2299 INTERNET KCLARK@GALAXY.GOV.BC.CA ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 12 May 1995 17:20:47 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: James King Subject: Terramycin Stability Hi there: Does anyone out there have any knowledge or experience regarding the stability over time of terramycin in: 1.) An antibiotic extender pattie, or 2.) A dry formulated mixture like the Mid-Con product, Terra-Brood Mix? Thanks in advance for the help. Jim King ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 12 May 1995 14:55:05 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ian Farber Subject: Re: Gathering Swarms In-Reply-To: <9505040034.AA10637@cln.etc.bc.ca> I've tried to mark queens with "liquid paper" and the bees have completely cleaned it off within two weeks. There are commercial queen marking paints available. Nail polish works but the odor may cause 'balling'of the queen so I won't use it at all. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 12 May 1995 20:57:36 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "La Reine de la Cite' des Phoques (Liz Day)" Subject: US Senate and grad student loans Comments: To: lday@IndyNet.indy.net Please excuse this slightly off-topic post, as well as the ignorance that prompts it. In today's Wall St. Journal, on the bottom of the front page, it says (paraphrased) that the Republican Senate (all of them?) proposes getting rid of the student loan interest rate subsidy for graduate and professional students. That's all it said. No story. Does anyone know anything at all about this? Liz Day lday@indy.net (that's Lday, not ONEday) Indianapolis, IN, USA ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 13 May 1995 11:09:00 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Crawfords Electronics <0006173164@MCIMAIL.COM> Subject: marking queens >I've tried to mark queens with "liquid paper" and the bees have >completely cleaned it off within two weeks. There are commercial queen >marking paints available. Nail polish works but the odor may cause >'balling'of the queen so I won't use it at all. When I was just a kid - we used a paint for our models called Testers Enamel. It comes in a little bottle, about thumb size and is availible from hobby supply stores. I've used it for years - very fast drying. I get a little camel hair brush to apply a dot - it never comes off. David Crawford Pinole, Ca. 6173164@mcimail.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 13 May 1995 07:45:27 GMT Reply-To: allister@elms.demon.co.uk Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Allister C. Guy" Subject: Re: Where am I? In your message dated Thursday 4, May 1995 you wrote : > > > > More areas heard from. It is nice to think that the honey bee has > > brought us together from around the world merely because of this common > > interest. > > > > When I get the time I will put this together in a more logical order. > > > > > > > > > > > So far (pretty much in the order received): > > > > > > > > > Columbia > > > Belgium > > > New Zealand > > > > > > Brazil > > > Parana State > > > Sao Paula State > > > Bahia State > > Paraiba State > > > > > Northern Ireland > > > > > > England > > > Sheffield > > > Nottingham > > > Chester > > > > > Israel > > > Netherlands (Holland) > > Switzerland > > South Africa > Wales > Australia > > > > > > > Canada > > > Alberta > > > Prince Edward Island > > > New Brunswick > > > Manitoba > > > Ontario > > Quebec > > > > > > USA Virginia > > > California > > > Georgia > > > Oregon > > > Minnesota > > > Kentucky > > > New Hampshire > > > Florida > > > Washington > > > Texas > > > Wisconsin > > > Pennsylvania > > > Indiana > > > Hawaii > > > South Carolina > > > Nebraska > > > Kansas > > > New York > > > Tennessee > > > Michigan > > > Illinois > > > Louisiana > > > New Mexico > > > Maryland > > Iowa > > Ohio > > Indiana > Massachusetts > Arkansas > > > > > > If you are from a country state or province not on this list, you can send > > > me a note and it will be added. It is probably best if you send the > > > message as a personal message rather than to the entire list. > > > > > > This is just a list for interest. Don't worry about any other motives. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Eric Abell email: eabell@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca > > > > > > Gibbons, AB, T0A 1N0 > > > > > > Canada > > > > > > (403) 998 3143 > > > > > > Lothian in Scotland > > > > > > > > > > > -- --------------------------------------------------------------------------- | Allister C. Guy EMail allister@ | | Mail sent via Demon Internet - Full IP for 10/Month Tel:0181 371 1234 | --------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 13 May 1995 12:23:52 -0701 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Greg Kendall Subject: A report on the ARS-Y-1 bees In-Reply-To: <199505131630.JAA10541@shell1.best.com> I did my first inspection of a recently hived package of the ARS-Y-1 bees from Honey Bee Genetics in Vacaville, CA., and here's what I saw. First, a disclaimer. I have met Tom Parisian, who runs Honey Bee Genetics. He was kind enough to drive 1 1/2 hours to give a talk to our local Guild. I liked Tom, so be aware of what ever bias that implies. I hived the package on April 7, and saw the queen walk out of the cage on April 10. I did this inspection on May 8. In general, things looked good. I'm using all medium depth equipment, and I found about 8 frames of brood. The brood was mostly capped, tightly packed, with the holes in capped brood filled with uncapped brood. In some of the frames, the capped brood was surrounded by uncapped brood, suggesting expansion. The surrounding pollen and honey were in pretty much the classic pattern. The bees were not noticeably different to work than the Italians I've had over the 4 seasons I've been keeping bees. I saw the queen (thank you, however, for this year being the blue dot) and, my, is she dark! I have seen a few large larvae in front of the hive, so the hygienic behavior does seem to be working (I've never noticed this from my previous hives of Italians). All in all, I'm pleased with what I saw. I hived another package (Italians) on May, 11, we'll see how the 2 hives compare. In retrospect, I wish I'd ordered both packages at the same time, so I'd have time-balanced colonies to compare. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 13 May 1995 14:37:34 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jerry J Bromenshenk Subject: Re: Queen Intrduction Tricks In-Reply-To: from "Allen Dick" at May 7, 95 12:47:21 pm Hi: One of our large commercial beekeepers has used Queen push-in cages for decades. I use them in our research hives, particulary when re-queening colonies in mid-summer (we don't like to sustain the two week to get a new queen, several days for her to start laying, approximately three week brood break, so we re-queen colonies that have lost their queens - which seems to be more common in mite infested colonies). Getting the queen out of the shipping cage and into the push-in cage can be troublesome. One year, I was demonstrating the technique and one queen helped by racing out of the shipping cage and flying off over my shoulder, never to be seen again. The Montana Commercial Beekeeper used the following trick to transfer the queen. He carried a clear, squat, water glass (like restaurants often use for ice water). The glass should be slightly taller than the cage in which the queen is shipped. Fill the glass with warm (tepid) water. To tranfer the queen, he would ease back the staples holding the screen, then submerge the cage with the queen in it into the water. Having "dunked" the queen, he would flip the screen open, and tip the queen out onto the comb, then press in the "push-in" cage. The idea was that momentarily submerging the queen in warm water somewhat disoriented her and wet her wings, making it difficult for her to fly. When dipping the queen, use a smooth, gentle dip, just in and out. Don't plunge the cage in and yank it out (banging the queen about). Likewise, don't leave her under water any longer than it takes to get her wet (you don't want to drown her). Bob Talcott used this technique to re-queen his operation of 1200 - 1500 colonies. Cheers Jerry Bromenshenk The University of Montana jjbmail@selway.umt.edu ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 12 May 1995 16:57:14 GMT Reply-To: Gordon@apis.demon.co.uk Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Gordon Scott Subject: Re: leather bee gloves.... Dave Green writes: > > I'm surprised no one has proposed the best solution - throw them away! Yup, that *is* the best way. But I do wish there was an easier way to get used to the stings. I started without gloves and swelled up quite a lot the first few times I got stung. Now I react very little and once I'm stung I get philosophical. Unfortunately that doesn't stop me feeling aprehensive when I start and 'jumping' every time I feel a bee on the back of my hand (I didn't used to when I started). The jump is my problem and I'm working on it slowly -- must try harder. I always try to work the bees as though I'm not wearing gloves and I'm rarely stung as a consequence. BTW, I count stings into clothing as 'hits' even if I personally don't feel them. Most of my stings are when a bee gets caught in the folds of the glove's cuff, which wouldn't be there to trap them if I weren't wearing them! > On second thought, don't throw the gloves away, put them in the toolbox. Good for weeding out stinging nettles! > Maybe I'm a bee venom junkie. If I don't work the bees for a while, my > knuckles swell and get stiff with arthritis. So I welcome, at least, the > first couple stings to get limbered up. And I like to keep the swelling > down, as that inflamation is what destroys the joints. I hear various friend-of-a-friend stories about this. You seem convinced that bee venom does indeed help control arthitis. Any others on the list convinced? Regards, -- Gordon Scott Gordon@apis.demon.co.uk 100332,3310 on CompuServe Newsletter Beekeeper@apis.demon.co.uk ditto Beekeeper, Kendo Sandan, sometime sailor. Basingstoke, Hampshire, RG22 5HP, UK PS -- whilst this is still in my 'out tray'. True to my promise to myself, the gloves were off today. One sting (back of a little pinky) about 10 seconds after opening the first box, then nothing. Very fews 'jumps' too -- I'm definitely getting my confidence back. Thanks for your nice gentle encouragement ;-) Right, now to continue with that spider phobia of mine. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 13 May 1995 18:01:28 GMT Reply-To: Gordon@apis.demon.co.uk Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Gordon Scott Subject: Re: Laying Workers Chris Deaves wrote: > d) THE POSITION OF WORKER-LAID EGGS. These are about 1/2 way down the sidewall > of the cell, not at the apex, as the worker can't reach the bottom. Also, there tend to be many per cell. > Treatment: > > Re-queening is not too reliable, as the colony is in a mode where it is > creating its own queen. It can help to add a frame of brood-all-stages to get the workers doing their proper jobs and a chance to start raising a new queen. You might speed the process by giving them a queen cell, or a virgin once they've started building Q cells, or a mated queen once they've capped a Q cell. -- Newsletter Beekeeper@apis.demon.co.uk Compuserve 100332,3310 Gordon Scott Gordon@apis.demon.co.uk ditto Basingstoke Beekeeper. The Newsletter of the Basingstoke & District Beekeepers' Association. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 13 May 1995 21:43:10 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Donald Tinker Subject: Re: how to handle drone colon... Whether the colony contains a laying worker or a queen that has started laying nothing but drone eggs, I have always had great success with the following action: Dismantle the colony and dump all of the bees 50 or so feet from the stand in tall grass or weeds, then reassemble the colony on the stand and requeen it. The premise is that the queen or laying worker will not be able to fly back to the colony. This has worked every time for me. It may be necessary to replace some of the drone comb with new foundation if there is very much of it. A colony occasionally hangs out on the bottom board for various reasons, but if the colony is not too crowded, there is probably nothing to worry about. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 13 May 1995 19:36:20 PDT Reply-To: "W. Allen Dick" Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "W. Allen Dick" Subject: Real Beekeepers don't wear gloves. >Dave Green writes: >> >> I'm surprised no one has proposed the best solution - throw them away! > >Yup, that *is* the best way. > >But I do wish there was an easier way to get used to the stings. I >started without gloves and swelled up quite a lot the first few times I >got stung. Now I react very little and once I'm stung I get >philosophical. >I always try to work the bees as though I'm not wearing gloves and I'm >rarely stung as a consequence. BTW, I count stings into clothing as >'hits' even if I personally don't feel them. Most of my stings are when >a bee gets caught in the folds of the glove's cuff, which wouldn't be >there to trap them if I weren't wearing them! > >> On second thought, don't throw the gloves away, put them in the toolbox. > >Good for weeding out stinging nettles! > >> Maybe I'm a bee venom junkie. If I don't work the bees for a while, my >> knuckles swell and get stiff with arthritis. So I welcome, at least, the >> first couple stings to get limbered up. And I like to keep the swelling >> down, as that inflamation is what destroys the joints. > >I hear various friend-of-a-friend stories about this. You seem >convinced that bee venom does indeed help control arthitis. Any others >on the list convinced? > > PS -- whilst this is still in my 'out tray'. True to my promise > to myself, the gloves were off today. One sting (back of a > little pinky) about 10 seconds after opening the first box, then > nothing. Very fews 'jumps' too -- I'm definitely getting my > confidence back. Thanks for your nice gentle encouragement ;-) > Right, now to continue with that spider phobia of mine. Now we're talking BEEKEEPING. If you can't work bees NAKED, then you really don't measure up. Now some of you might think I'm joking, but, as usual, I'm not. Usually I'm not (quite) naked, but put a few dollars down and we might get there. I can't think of many places where I haven't been stung at least once. I usually work in the summer in sandals and cutoff blue jeans and maybe a cap (because I'm bald). I can't stand the heat and awkwardness of suits and veils. If the bees are vicious, then maybe they shouldn't be worked at the moment. What will the neighbours think (when they are stung on the way down the lane)? I get stung a bit. Maybe 100 stings on a tough day, but not really hard stings. You know -- out our way at least -- the bees tend to stand on your wrists and bite a bit before they get to really drilling. If you watch, they actually bite, not sting as if to say "Am I really going to have to *sting* this sucker. I really don't want to die. Maybe he'll take a hint." Then they sting weakly, and then, if you don't wise up and SMOKE (or leave) they *really* get to driving it home. A little judicious use of smoke helps a lot. I don't keep the queens in my mouth though. (Are you listening, Andy?) I know you can't do this everywhere -- because I remember going to Ontario (Canada) one time many years ago to look at some bees I was going to buy, and, when I walked up without a veil, holding only a smoker, the owner, a fellow of about sixty, said something to the effect of 'What are you doing?'. I assured him I did it all the time in Alberta, and he said okay, but I could see in his mind he was preparing an escape route. He had been in bees in Southern Ontario since he was sixteen and knew something I didn't. I found his bees a wee bit testy. And yet, when I had the rascals back here in Alberta, they were as gentle as lambs. I must say that Dave sounds like a real beeman and I'll have to look him up sometime. We can see who can grow the longest bee beard. I know who can spin the longest yarn. Actually I find he is quite right about the arthritis. I had a lot of joint pains before I got into bees and not much since. My mother has bad arthritis in her fingers and one time -- before I brought my (deceased) father's bees west, I convinced her to try bee sting treatment on her knuckles. It was most promising, because her knuckles swelled a bit and itched intolerably. However I was unable to convince her to proceed from there. She decided arthritis was a blessing compared to the treatment. I have met Chas. Mraz and heard his story. In fact he administered a bee sting to my tennis elbow on stage in front of the entire Alberta Beekeepers Association Annual General Meeting and Convention (which is in November and you all should attend). It didn't do a thing. Not his fault. In the rush of the moment he missed the mark by a cm or so, as I found later by experimenting. Yes, I do believe that bee stings do help with a number of diseases. Allen ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 14 May 1995 07:15:27 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Dave Green, Eastern Pollinator Newsletter" Subject: Re: leather bee gloves.... Comments: To: gordon@apis.demon.co.uk Gordon@apis.demon.co.uk: >Unfortunately that doesn't stop me feeling aprehensive when I start and 'jumping' every time I feel a bee on the back of my hand (I didn't used to when I started). The jump is my problem and I'm working on it slowly -- must try harder. It's a head trip, isn't it? When I got my first hive (to pollinate my garden), I was terrified of the bees. I'd find myself shaking and in a cold sweat, every time I went into the hive. Curiosity kept me going that first year, but just barely. During the winter, I thought it over and decided that I must get over the fear, or get rid of the bees. It wasn't worth it. I approached the commercial beekeeper, who sold me my first bees, and asked if he needed some spring help. We arranged for me to take three weeks and go with him during the intense spring rush. Little did I know, that he had a reputation for having the meanest bees in the state. -Kind of like the old navy method of teaching sailors to swim - toss them overboard. He had another helper too, a long haired kid, who had a macho thing about being stung. It was a wild and crazy time. (I kept asking him what he was putting in the smoker; the smell was unfamiliar to me.) I will never forget the end of that time - loading 40 double story hives onto a one ton truck by hand with this kid. The bees were hanging up the front; it was a sultry, steamy night. It was about 10 pm, but we had no choice; the bees were due in an apple orchard, which was already blooming. About two thirds of the way through, a thunderstorm broke, and we were drenched. You know, when the clothes stick to your body, you might as well not be wearing any, as far as bee stings are concerned. The kid put out some shrieks and howls that would surely have brought some police, or something, even in the wilds of the bee yard, had not the thunder b een crashing louder than him. That was the final exam on my crash course. I have never had the shakey, sweaty, creepy-crawley fear since. I've since watched many other beginning beekeepers step over the line, usually with a lot less trauma. But there is definitely some sort of barrier that must be crossed, before one can relax and enjoy the work. The newest guy on a crew is almost always the one with the most stings. Some say a dog can sense if you are afraid of him, and he is more likely to bite. Perhaps that is true also of bees. I don't know of any other way to cross the barrier, than more exposure to the bees. I had to push myself, test myself. I could have wound up doing something else, but I probably wouldn't have enjoyed it near as much. It WAS worth the effort. BTW - I won't put up with bees such as my mentor had. And he doesn't anymore either. We have both learned the merits of requeening nasty bees. Enjoy! Pollinator@aol.com Dave Green PO Box 1215, Hemingway, SC 29554 ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 14 May 1995 08:31:11 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Dave Green, Eastern Pollinator Newsletter" Subject: Re: Real Beekeepers don't wear gloves. Comments: To: allend@relay.internode.net In a message dated 95-05-13 22:21:32 EDT, Allen Dick wrote: >If you can't work bees NAKED, then you really don't measure up. > >Now some of you might think I'm joking, but, as usual, I'm not. >Usually I'm >not (quite) naked, but put a few dollars down and we might get >there. Awwww....c'mon Allen.....this isn't a contest is it? If it is .....YOU WIN! I didn't think this was a matter of measuring up, but of enjoying the bees, which I sure can't do very well when my glasses are steamed up and sliding down to my chin, can't feel what I touch, and I'm soaked with sweat. I don't know what I'll do when the African bees get here. Maybe an inflata ble astronaut suit, with a portable air conditioner? Or ice in my pockets? Or retirement? Face that when it comes. Maybe they won't be all that bad. Pollinator@aol.com Dave Green ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 14 May 1995 08:31:35 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Subject: Real Beekeepers sweat on their glasses In-Reply-To: <9505141230.AA20508@cuugnet.cuug.ab.ca> On Sun, 14 May 1995, Dave Green, Eastern Pollinator Newsletter wrote: > In a message dated 95-05-13 22:21:32 EDT, Allen Dick wrote: > > >If you can't work bees NAKED, then you really don't measure up. > > > >Now some of you might think I'm joking, but, as usual, I'm not. > >Usually I'm not (quite) naked, but put a few dollars down and . . . > Awwww....c'mon Allen.....this isn't a contest is it? If it is .....YOU > WIN! No, just tomfoolery :) > I didn't think this was a matter of measuring up, but of enjoying the bees, > which I sure can't do very well when my glasses are steamed up and sliding > down to my chin, can't feel what I touch, and I'm soaked with sweat. Exactly. A good tip for those who wear glasses is to take a bandana, roll it into a 1 inch strip and tie it around your head and over your brow. It works better and lasts longer than those sponge things they sell. And it looks rugged, not silly. A ball cap is too hot for me under a veil. We use the Sherriff veils, but I am having second thoughts because they allow too much sun on the face, even with the special panels I had put in on the top for me by the late Mrs. Sherriff. > I don't know what I'll do when the African bees get here. Maybe an inflata > ble astronaut suit, with a portable air conditioner? Or ice in my pockets? > Or retirement? Face that when it comes. Maybe they won't be all that bad. I have a friend who just came back from Mexico. It's a long story, but at eighty he is down to 24 hives. He says that they are all now Africanised and although a bit crosser, they make much more honey (twice) and are much more prolific -- forming bigger colonies. There is no disease problem anymore. He says they are a bit more aggressive, but not unmanageable. His Mexican home is at 8,000 feet altitude. He likes them and feels that they are the real honeybees. He is not convinced that they will not eventually move as far north as we presently keep bees. He thinks the (government) swarm traps hanging in the trees all over Mexico are a joke. Curiously enough for this thread, I met him first when he came for a jar of bees to use on his arthritis, which was acting up last time he came north to visit. So, I guess he doesn't mind the stings. And I guess he believes that they work for his arthritis. Allen Disclaimer: The opinions expressed above are not mine. They are those of my employer. W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper VE6CFK Rural Route One Swalwell Alberta Canada T0M 1Y0 Email: dicka@cuug.ab.ca or allend@internode.net Futures, Art & Honey:http://www.cuug.ab.ca:8001/~dicka ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 14 May 1995 11:44:36 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Derk Phelps Subject: Hive Loader Hello, I am looking fir information on hydraulic hive loaders. We currently have a Kelly Hive Loader but are looking for a new loader to go with a new truck. Manufacturers address, for sale info, prices are all wanted. Thanks, Derk Phelps dpbes@aol.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 14 May 1995 21:25:27 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "La Reine de la Cite' des Phoques (Liz Day)" Subject: bumblebee plant Elsholtzia Comments: To: lday@IndyNet.indy.net We have a perennial mint in our garden called (according to the landscaper) *Elsholtzia sauntonii* (??). It vaguely resembles Monarda, grows about 4' high, blooms late in the summer with dull purple flower spikes that look a bit like caterpillars. Bumblebees are CRAZY for this plant. Every night last season it was covered with sleeping bees. A real draw. Is anyone out there familiar with this plant? It is not in our big fat all-inclusive perennial book, and the landscapers do not answer their phone. It seems harmless ( I mean horticulturally) but from long experience I know not to assume so. Liz Day lday@indy.net (that's Lday, not ONEday) Indianapolis, IN, USA ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 14 May 1995 20:13:40 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jim Osborn Subject: Re: bumblebee plant Elsholtzia "La Reine de la Cite' des Phoques (Liz Day)" writes: >We have a perennial mint in our garden called (according to the >landscaper) *Elsholtzia sauntonii* (??). It vaguely resembles Monarda, >grows about 4' high, blooms late in the summer with dull purple flower >spikes that look a bit like caterpillars. Bumblebees are CRAZY for >this plant. Every night last season it was covered with sleeping bees. >A real draw. >Is anyone out there familiar with this plant? It is not in our big fat >all-inclusive perennial book, and the landscapers do not answer their >phone. >It seems harmless ( I mean horticulturally) but from long experience I >know not to assume so. Here's what The Practical Encyclopedia of Gardening (1936 edition) says about Elsholtzia: "A genus of 20 species of chiefly Asiatic, aromatic under-shrubs of the mint family, E. stauntoni somewhat grown for its late-blooming flowers. It is a low shrub or shrubby herb, 2-4 ft. high, its opposite leaves short-stalked, toothed, oval-oblong, 3-5in long, and sticky beneath. Flowers lavender, in a dense, 1-sided spike, 6-12 in long. Corolla only slightly 2-lipped its stamens long-protruding. The plant is easily grown in the open border south of zone 4 and blooms in Sept-Oct. Choose a sunny place and propagate by greenwood cuttings or by seed. (Named for Johann Sigismund Elsholtz, Prussian physician and botanist.)" Sounds like a nice plant. Want to send us some seeds next season? jimo@eskimo.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 15 May 1995 06:10:27 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ron Harriger Subject: DRONES Fellow keepers of the bee, I visited a bee yard the other day and from a distance I could see numerous bees on the ground. As I got closer I could tell that most of them were dead and a few were moving about. The good thing about it is they all were drones. As I stood and watched for a while I witnessed other drones being dragged out of the hive and dropped to the ground. This hive stand holds three hives and is eight inches of of the ground. I know that this is normal behavior in the fall but find it odd this early in the season. The other two hives were normal in that they did not have dead drones at their entrances. I did have a skunk in a trap in front of this hive a couple of days ago. He of course left his calling card before going to skunk heaven. I looked into the hive and all appeared normal with lots of stores left from winter. What goes here. Thanks for any ideas that may give me a clue as to what is going on. Ron Harriger Cambridge Springs Pa. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 15 May 1995 08:09:12 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Dave Green, Eastern Pollinator Newsletter" Subject: Re: DRONES In a message dated 95-05-15 06:27:41 EDT, Ron Harriger write: >As I stood and watched for a while I witnessed other drones being >dragged out >of the hive and dropped to the ground. I know that this is normal behavior in the fall but find it odd this early in the season. I, too, am puzzled. I would want to look further, and maybe these thoughts might indicate a direction to find more clues. Some think that the rich spring pollens are the cause of drone rearing. Then (at least in this area) the summer pollens, which tend to be poor quality, makes the bees back off on drone rearing, though they don't usually throw out what they already have. Goldenrod, which is high quality pollen, then stimulates another burst of drone rearing, followed by the expulsion of drones when pollen stops. I would look hard at the pollen stores of this colony and compare to the others. I would think you'd have plenty of good quality pollen at this time, but there may be something that is interfering with pollen gathering for this colony. The first thought that comes to mind is a heavy tracheal mite infestation. The second is virus; maybe both are present. Anthing that interferes with pollen gathering or nutrition of brood could therefore cause drone expulsion. I doubt this would be operative here, but I have seen hives expel drones after the field force was stripped by a pesticide hit. Ie no pollen was coming in and the hive was generally weakened, so they could not raise or support drones. Look at the pollen stores, that's more important here than honey stores. Then look at the bees. Do they look healthy? Are there some greasy, shiny, hairless bees? Do they smell sweet, or is there a faint, sour smell. Look at emerging baby bees. Are they fat and well fed, or are they undersized? (Varroa also can cause a lot of small bees.) Do you have bees in the pupa stage that never got capped (bald brood)? Bees that look sick, are sick. Requeening often helps, because many illnesses result from genetic weaknesses. If the bees are healthy, we still have a mystery, don't we? Another thought. Look at the drones being tossed out to see if you can spot varroa mites on them. In the last stages of collapse from varroa, workers will abandon hives. Perhaps this is a preliminary step, as mites prefer drones; the bees may try to expel mites by expelling drones.. Then look at capped brood. If they still have any drone brood, look at that first. Pull some out with tweezers or a capping scratcher. Do you find mites? If there is no drone brood left, check worker brood. If you find a varroa mite every hundred pupas, you need to treat. If you find a mite every two or three pupas, your hives is gasping its last. Two or three mites per pupa is the end. You might not solve the mystery of the drone expulsion, but I think it is important to see if you can find any pathogen that is causing this, both to keep your bees healthy, and to add to general knowledge. > I did have a skunk in a trap in front of this hive a couple of days ago. He of course left his calling card before going to skunk heaven. It seems remote to me, but there is the the thought that this could be a response to the odor. Bees communicate by odor; this could have interfered. Please let us know if you find additional clues. Pollinator@aol.com Dave Green Hemingway, SC ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 15 May 1995 07:02:19 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Subject: Web site temporarily acting up Comments: To: c deaves <100425.1553@compuserve.com> Comments: cc: sci.agriculture.beekeeping@cuug.ab.ca In-Reply-To: <950515095630_100425.1553_BHG123-1@CompuServe.COM> > Dear Allen, > This seems an appropriate point so say that I am having trouble accessing your > URL via Compuserve from the U.K. Do you keep it open 24hrs a day?, otherwise any > thoughts. Most other Web URLs seems to work more or less o.k.. > Best wishes Apologies to all: The DEC at CUUG has lost its NFS temporarily and so my web pages are temporarily unavailable. I realise many are being inconvenienced, but it is out of my hands. Please keep trying from time to time. It will be fixed soon. (I hope). Sorry for the inconvenience. Allen W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper VE6CFK Rural Route One Swalwell Alberta Canada T0M 1Y0 Email: dicka@cuug.ab.ca or allend@internode.net Futures, Art & Honey:http://www.cuug.ab.ca:8001/~dicka ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 15 May 1995 08:34:14 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Casey Burns Subject: Re: DRONES In-Reply-To: <199505151026.DAA30155@kendaco.telebyte.com> You want to check the food stores of that hive ASAP! I had a hive last year ejecting drones in the spring, and it turned out that they had very little food and the hive almost starved out. Cool weather or an unusually bad honey flow or bees that just don't collect well contribute to this. On Mon, 15 May 1995, Ron Harriger wrote: > Fellow keepers of the bee, > > I visited a bee yard the other day and from a distance I could see numerous > bees on the ground. As I got closer I could tell that most of them were dead > and a few were moving about. The good thing about it is they all were drones. > As I stood and watched for a while I witnessed other drones being dragged out > of the hive and dropped to the ground. This hive stand holds three hives and > is eight inches of of the ground. I know that this is normal behavior in the > fall but find it odd this early in the season. The other two hives were > normal in that they did not have dead drones at their entrances. I did have > a skunk in a trap in front of this hive a couple of days ago. He of course > left his calling card before going to skunk heaven. I looked into the hive > and all appeared normal with lots of stores left from winter. What goes here. > Thanks for any ideas that may give me a clue as to what is going on. > > Ron Harriger Cambridge Springs Pa. > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 15 May 1995 16:29:03 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Kelley Rosenlund Subject: 8frame hive dimensions Does anyone have the dimensions for making 8 frame hives? Thanks, Kelley Rosenlund rosenlk@freenet.ufl.edu In the metropolis of Gainesville, Florida. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 15 May 1995 18:01:28 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Lars A. Lutton" Subject: Re: Gathering Swarms From: NAME: Lars Lutton FUNC: Instructional Media Services TEL: (614)593-2669 To: MX%"BEE-L@UACSC2.ALBANY.EDU"@MRGATE@OUVAX On the subject of swarms, here in SE Ohio, USA, I've seen as many this year as in any the previous ten. They have all been uncharecteristically chest high or lower, seem disinclined to move once gathered on the limb;some for up to four days dispite not unpleasant weather, and 15 days earlier than any years past. I had an extremely unusual occurrance from the wife of an old beekeeper (now deceased), who remarked she recognized a swarm of "gentle goldens" her husband had kept many years before, and wanted to be sure someone got them "because she knew they was good bees". I hived them, only to have her remark that well over 2/3rds had left, hours before. I left the colony for later pick-up. She called the next day saying "you sure got a bunch of bees now mister". When I asked her what she meant, she replied "those that left swarmed right back into that box with the otherns". Now, I've never heard or seen this happen; with the exception having a trapped colony swarm into a trap box from a building, but I have lived long enough not to find some wisdom in odd places. Anyone had a similar situation? Regards, Lars/ lutton@ouvaxa.cats.ohiou.edu ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 May 1995 08:43:05 +1000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Codger Subject: Re: JZBZ cages Wouldsome one please discribe the JZBZ plastic queen cages and there advantages thanks Vince B Constable >As a commercial queen producer I have used JZBZ plastic queen >cages to ship my queen for the past couple years. They are very >handy both for the queen producer and the beekeeper. > >Used for introduction in nucs they give very good acceptance. In >my opinion the JZBZ cage corrects one of the major problem of the >standard tree hole wooden cage. With the tree whole cage the >time required for the bees of the host colony to eat up the candy >is not predictable. Sometimes the queen is released too soon, >sometime only 7 days after introduction. Neither is good. > >Some of my customers report that acceptance is full size colonies >is not good at all with JZBZ cages. I experienced myself bad >results at certain occasions. One Manitoba producer told me that >he will never use JZBZ cages again. Robert Page from California >told me that according to his tests, the queens get a lot of foot >damage when they are used for banking. I never bank queens but >some of my customers do and I had reports of queens killed while >banked! > >I am wondering if I should switch to another type of cage. >(Maybe I would give a try to the new Koehnen cage.) I would like >to hear other people's experience on this before I make my >decision. > > > _______________________________ ~ >|_____JEAN-PIERRE CHAPLEAU______| ~ bee breeder > |1282, rang 8, Saint-Adrien,| ~ > | Quebec, Canada, J0A 1C0 | vice president of the Canadian Honey Council > | phone: (819) 828-3396 | ~ ~ > | fax: (819) 828-2248 | ~ ~ > | chapleau@scuzzy.fmmo.ca | ~ ~ > |______________________________~ ~ > |__| |__| > > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 15 May 1995 19:09:26 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Mike Worrell Subject: Re: Disappearing Virgins I recently installed 8 hives from splits. Four had queens and four had queen cells. The 4 with queens are doing well and the 4 with cells have hatched out but there are no queens. Could it be possible that the mites have killed all the feral colonies and they never mated? If so, where did they go? Any other ideas? Mike ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 15 May 1995 20:06:55 -0500 Reply-To: godave@infi.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Dave Johnson Organization: mailhost.nr.infi.net Subject: queenless hives Please, anyone: If a hive is truly queenless, even if for only a very short time, will workers continue bringing in pollen? Put another way: If workers are seen carrying pollen into the hive, can you assume that colony is queenright? Thanks in anticipation. Dave ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 15 May 1995 20:31:27 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "La Reine de la Cite' des Phoques (Liz Day)" Subject: Re: bumblebee plant Elsholtzia Sure, I'll be glad to send seeds. God knows there are enough of them! I deadheaded it last fall and still collected 25 or 30 seedlings this spring, so they certainly grow from seed. Liz Day lday@indy.net (that's Lday, not ONEday) Indianapolis, IN, USA ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 15 May 1995 21:43:17 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Marc Patry Subject: Re: Gathering Swarms Comments: To: "Lars A. Lutton" In-Reply-To: <9505152159.AA03656@emr1.emr.ca> RE: early and plentiful swarms: I visitied my bees, 100 km north of Ottawa where apple blossoms are still a week away. The hives were full of bees, so much so that I felt compelled to put a super over one of them for fear of swarming - so early! Normally, I don't super until the beginning of June. If the weather holds, this could be a VERY GOOD YEAR! Marc Patry ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 15 May 1995 19:52:01 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jim Osborn Subject: Vetch for Honeybees Speaking of bee plants, we've got a bountiful crop of a relatively- long-leaved Vetch, with medium-sized purple flowers. The bumblebees seem to love it, but I don't see any honeybees working it. I know there are some Vetches that produce honey crops, but I'm afraid ours may not be one of them. Anyone know which ones make the honey, and how to identify them? jimo@eskimo.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 May 1995 01:43:35 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ron Harriger Subject: Re: DRONES Fellow keepers of the bee, Thanks for the information you have provided thus far. I would like to give you additional information that I should have posted with the last message. This hive was headed by a YUGO queen that is a year old. They are allegedly resistant to the tracheal mite. None the less I treated this hive and all the others with TM patties and with APISTAN strips per directions. I removed what was left of the patty and the APISTAN strip on the 46th day of use ( that was how I found the drones on the ground). I did not get into the brood nest as I was short of time on the day of discovery. I did seperate both hive bodies and the one on top was quite heavy. I estimate around 40 - 50 pounds. The one on the bottem was lighter, around 20 - 30 pounds. Both hive bodies had lots of active bees. I checked this yard about two weeks prior and this hive was hauling in pollen like crazy. I have never seen a coloney bring in the amounts of pollen that I saw on that day. That really brought joy to my heart. :-) The color indicated that the bees were gathering from different sources in the area. There is a small apple orchard about 1000 yards from the stand. I guess about 100 trees. I was wondering if the owner used some type of insecticide on his trees. If he did it should have harmed all the hives and not just one? He was a bee haver at one time. I located his bee yard. 500 yards from where I placed mine. It looks as if there hasn't been any bees in the hives for years. This is a new location for me and I am kind of nervous about the health of my girls. I will get into the brood chamber the first chance I get and report back. Ron Harriger Cambridge Springs Pa. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 May 1995 00:46:55 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Moote, John M." Subject: Re: Gathering Swarms, Michigan, too. I just checked my hive yesterday, May 16, after installing on April 11 (5 weeks ago). Since I'm new at this, I'm not completely sure what I was looking at but it looked like swarm cells. I checked a book later and it appears that I was right. I put a second deep super on yesterday and I'm going back in today to take another look. Hopefully it's just swarm cells and no queen larvae. I hope adding the second super will convince the bees to stay put. It does look like an early swarming season here in Michigan, too. I did read in a book that if one should blow up a hive that is intent on swarming, then they probably won't swarm. John Moote Mootejm@BASF-Corp.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 May 1995 07:34:23 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Eric Abell Subject: Re: Where am I? Some new areas have been heard from. This is the list up-to-date and pretty much in the order received. > > > Columbia > > > > Brazil > > Parana State > > Sao Paula State > > Bahia State > > Paraiba State > > > > Israel > > > > Europe > > Belgium > > Netherlands (Holland) > > Sweden > > Switzerland > > Northern Ireland > > England > > Sheffield > > Nottingham > > Chester > Kent > > Wales Scotland > > South Africa > > Australia > > New Zealand > > Mexico > > Campeche Sweden Slovenia Argentina > > Canada > > Alberta > > Prince Edward Island > > New Brunswick > > Manitoba > > Ontario > > Quebec > > British Columbia Saskatchewan > > USA > > Virginia > > California > > Georgia > > Oregon > > Minnesota > > Kentucky > > New Hampshire > > Florida > > Washington > > Texas > > Wisconsin > > Pennsylvania > > Indiana > > Hawaii > > South Carolina > > Nebraska > > Kansas > > New York > > Tennessee > > Michigan > > Illinois > > Louisiana > > New Mexico > > Maryland > > Iowa > > Ohio > > Indiana > > Massachusetts > > Arkansas > > North Carolina > > Virgin Islands > > Connecticut > Missouri Utah New Jersey > > This is a list of Countries and some states and provinces that have > > participants. If you would like to see your country/state/province > > listed simply send me a personal message. Remember, this is just for > > interest. You will win no prize and will be on no mailing list. > > > > Eric Abell > > Box 87 > > Gibbons, AB T0A 1N0 > > Canada > > (403) 998 3143 > > eabell@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca > > > > > > > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 May 1995 12:29:05 -0400 Reply-To: aa2363@freenet.lorain.oberlin.edu Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Kevin R. Palm" Subject: BMAIL & APIS? Does anyone know what's happened to the May 1995 APIS and B-Mail; newsletters?? I know that APIS usually comes about the middle of the month, but B-Mail has always been aroung (around) the first of the month. Are they still being published?? Thanks, Kevin R. Palm aa2363@freenet.lort ain.oberlin.edu (That';s lorain) ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 May 1995 12:48:00 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Eileen Gregory Subject: Re: bumblebee plant Elsholtzia Liz, We have a plant which sounds just like what you describe, named Agastache, it has the odor of anise or licorice. The bumblebees sleeping in the flowers really is quite fun to see! Eileen Gregory > We have a perennial mint in our garden called (according to the > landscaper) *Elsholtzia sauntonii* (??). It vaguely resembles Monarda, > grows about 4' high, blooms late in the summer with dull purple flower > spikes that look a bit like caterpillars. Bumblebees are CRAZY for > this plant. Every night last season it was covered with sleeping bees. > A real draw. > Is anyone out there familiar with this plant? It is not in our big fat > all-inclusive perennial book, and the landscapers do not answer their > phone. > It seems harmless ( I mean horticulturally) but from long experience I > know not to assume so. > Liz Day > lday@indy.net (that's Lday, not ONEday) > Indianapolis, IN, USA ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 May 1995 14:40:32 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Dave Green, Eastern Pollinator Newsletter" Subject: Swarmy Bees Comments: To: mootejm@np02.wyandotte.basf-corp.com John M. Moote wrote: > Since I'm new at this, I'm not completely sure what I was looking at but it looked like swarm cells. I checked a book later and it appears that I was right. If it really is swarmy, you won't stop them by supering, and probably not reliably by any other simple method. Once they have cells, I yield to their overwhelming urge to reproduce and split them. Some cut out swarm cells, but if one is missed (and it's usually an itty bitty one that makes a lousy queen), you've irretrievably lost anyway. You said you have a deep super. --- Easy split.... Move the hive. Mine are on pallets, so I can just turn it around to the ot her side. Put your deep super on a bottom board. (If you don't have one, use anything temporarily, tar paper will work for a while. Put a twig under a corner to give them an entrance.) Take three frames of brood with a couple queen cells. Handle the frames gently and don't tip them up. If the developing queens are at a fragile stage, just tipping the cell upside down can ruin their wings. Just before emerging they are tougher. Put the three frames in the new hive that you have placed on the old spot. You will have a nice strong nuc, because it will get the field force. The empty frames go into the old hive on the new stand. Whichever side gets the queen will get her. Neither side is likely to swarm right away, as they both have been sufficiently weakened, and they'll think they succeeded in reproducing. The side that got the old queen may swarm in 3 or 4 weeks tho ugh. If she is in her second year, she is programmed to swarm. You might want to do her in, as soon as you can tell which side got her. She will be easier to find, because the hives will have reduced population. Make sure there is a cell left if you remove her. (Or replace her.) Presto, TWO colonies for the price of one, both with young queens, assuming they get successfully mated. They won't make as much honey as the original colony might have, had they not been split, but then, they will make more than if the original swarmed, and you probably have already guaranteed by letting them get to the cell building stage. Good luck. Pollinator@aol.com Dave Green PO Box 1215, Hemingway, SC 29554 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 May 1995 14:07:16 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: David Brown Subject: Got a swarm I hived a swarm on Mother's Day from the house next door. There was about 4 to 5 pounds of bees. My hive of packaged bees are still strong so they weren't from there. ( I have added the second full supper. ) The neighbors thought it was great fun and so did my kids. Should I give the swarm some sugar water? David N. Brown Blue Springs, MO ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 May 1995 17:01:09 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Edward Sterling Subject: Re: feeding question Puzzled by something: I checked my 2 new hives this Sunday and the one had totally ignored the fumadil-laced syrup placed in a nice hive top feeder (one of these professionally made ones, in a shallow super, with the plastic feeder trays, the screened area that separates the bees from the the beekeeper etc.). Yet the other hive had consumed syrup from inverted mason jars with holes poked in the end? I was baffled at the rejection of the hive top feeder? I did not insert a top board between the bees and the hive-top feeder, so they had complete access from the frame tops. I'm puzzled why one hive would take the syrup, yet the other wouldn't. Does the slight farther distance to the source have a significant meaning? It is perhaps 1 to 1.5 inches from the frame tops to the inverted jar top. Is the "upright" feeding stance preferable to bees, versus the "inverted" position they must take to drink from a hive top feeder. It is perhaps 3-4 inches from the frame tops to the opening of the hive top feeder, where the bees then climb down on the screen to take in the syrup in an inverted position. Is that "too far to walk" or does the inverted feeding stance of the bee also have some impact on their interest in taking the syrup? Ed ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ed Sterling, GPCC | ACTUAL quotes from my kids: "Daddy, hummingbirds Bolton, MA 01740 USA | help the bees put honey in the flowers!" "In the Phone/FAX: 508-779-6058 | daytime, the sun melts the moon into cloudpieces!" "ed@gpcc.ultranet.com" | "A snowman makes the quietest sounds in the world" ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Wish you had a favorite childhood toy from the 1950s/60s/70s back again? Barbie? GI Joe? Fanner 50? Girder and Panel? See http://www.ultranet.com/~ed ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 May 1995 18:47:23 GMT Reply-To: ibra@matheson.demon.co.uk Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: ibra Subject: Re: Gathering Swarms, Michigan, too. In your message dated Tuesday 16, May 1995 you wrote : > > I did read in a book that if one should blow up a hive that is intent on > swarming, then they probably won't swarm. The full quote (from C C Miller) is that "if a colony disposed to swarm should be blown up with dynamite, it would probably not swarm again, but its usefulness as a honey-gathering unit would be somewhat impaired". The point is that swarm control (or, better, swarm prevention) techniques need to be compatible with productive beekeeping. Andrew -- ************************************************************************** * From Andrew Matheson, Director, International Bee Research Association * * * * E.mail (home): ibra@matheson.demon.co.uk * * (office): ibra@cardiff.ac.uk * * * * IBRA, 18 North Road, Cardiff CF1 3DY, UK * * Fax (+44) 1222-665522 Telephone (+44) 1222-372409 * ************************************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 May 1995 18:44:09 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "GARY M. DeBERRY" Subject: Re: US Senate and grad student loans Hi, I heard that students loans were going to loose the subsidy that they receive. I had some information from e-mail and a hard copy but I am not sure if I have either right now. I am finishing up my master degree in Urban and Regional Planning at the Univv. of Pittsburgh and I really appreciated those subisidies. Gary M. DeBerry ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 May 1995 18:27:22 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Doug Yanega Subject: Re: bumblebee plant Elsholtzia >Liz, > We have a plant which sounds just like what you describe, named >Agastache, it has the odor of anise or licorice. > The bumblebees sleeping in the flowers really is quite >fun to see! >Eileen Gregory > >> We have a perennial mint in our garden called (according to the >> landscaper) *Elsholtzia sauntonii* (??). It vaguely resembles Monarda, >> grows about 4' high, blooms late in the summer with dull purple flower >> spikes that look a bit like caterpillars. Bumblebees are CRAZY for >> this plant. Every night last season it was covered with sleeping bees. >> A real draw. Agastache (commonly known as Hyssop) is a mint, but not - as far as my botanical reference goes - particularly close to Elsholtzia (though apparently close to catnip). The strong scent is apparently shared among the three native species, and I've found Agastache to be very good at attracting native bees such as Andrena, Hylaeus, and various Halictidae. My kind of plant! ;-) Doug Yanega Illinois Natural History Survey, 607 E. Peabody Dr. Champaign, IL 61820 USA phone (217) 244-6817, fax (217) 333-4949 "There are some enterprises in which a careful disorderliness is the true method" - Herman Melville, Moby Dick, Chap. 82 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 May 1995 22:03:25 -0800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Mark Jensen Subject: Varroa Treatments There are several non-approved varroa treaments being advertised in the US that I would like to find out more about. The first is called Mite Solution sold by Apicom in NY City. It is called an herbal remedy and comes in 1 oz jars for $18. You paint it on 1/4 in hardware cloth over the entrance which the bees scrape going in and out. The proprietor of Apicom, a Dr. Zdenka Hauner (dentist), will not reveal the ingredient in Mite Solution, nor is it apparently revealed on the product label. Apicom's catalog says it is manufactured and registered by TUTTLE APIARIES. What is this stuff, and does it work, and can it be used during a honeyflow? The other treatment is a heat treating apparatus sold by Better Way (the wax melter people). It looks like it mounts on the top of the hive in the ad in the ABJ. It apparently operates on the principle that a raised temperature will affect the mites more than the bees. Does anybody have any experience with either of these mite treatments? Mark Jensen-Double J Apiaries mjensen@crl.com Los Altos Hills, CA, USA fax 415 941 3488 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 17 May 1995 07:17:00 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Michael Stoops Subject: Re: Vetch for Honeybees Comments: To: Jim Osborn In-Reply-To: <199505160253.VAA12938@Paula-Formby.tenet.edu> Sounds like the vetch you're discussing has a flower throat that is too deep for the honey bees to be able to reach the source of nectar. I've not heard of any vetch that the honey bees can utilize so if you get wind of such, would appreciate letting me know. Vetch's a good ground cover and if I could get a honey producer to boot, that would be great. MIKE ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 17 May 1995 09:32:05 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Edward Sterling Subject: Re: Varroa Treatments Mark recently said: >The other treatment is a heat treating apparatus sold by Better Way (the >wax melter people). It looks like it mounts on the top of the hive in the >ad in the ABJ. It apparently operates on the principle that a raised >temperature will affect the mites more than the bees. That's interesting. Most comments on this list seem to indicate varroa take their toll in the off-season. Though perhaps present at all times of the year, it is my impression (as an amateur w/ 2 hives just getting back into beekeeping since 1986) that varroa do not GENERALLY impact a reasonably strong hive during the main honey season. Is it the high reproduction rate of the bees that "overwhelms" or "overrides" the impact of varroa, or, could it be that the summer temperatures do in fact some beneficial impact in lessening the impact of varroa, as possibly indicated by the sale of this "hive heater" Mark mentions. Or is this just wishful thinking and can varroa take over an otherwise healthy hive during the main season and deal it a death blow? I understand not to use Apistan during the honey flow, and so are we all just praying that the hive will not get hit during the honey flow, or do other factors (like massive reproduction and temperature) help minimize the effect of varroa during the main season? Ed ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ed Sterling, GPCC | ACTUAL quotes from my kids: "Daddy, hummingbirds Bolton, MA 01740 USA | help the bees put honey in the flowers!" "In the Phone/FAX: 508-779-6058 | daytime, the sun melts the moon into cloudpieces!" "ed@gpcc.ultranet.com" | "A snowman makes the quietest sounds in the world" ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Wish you had a favorite childhood toy from the 1950s/60s/70s back again? Barbie? GI Joe? Fanner 50? Girder and Panel? See http://www.ultranet.com/~ed ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 17 May 1995 07:24:36 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Eric Abell Subject: Where I am ? Jean-Marie Van Dyck has added listserv information to our list and organized it for us. Here is it. Many thanks for taking the time to do this. Another reader suggested that new areas be in capital letters so SOUTH DAKOTA is the new area this time. Countries Number of listeners : total 562 (May 17, 1995) North America 420 * Canada 53 Alberta British Columbia Manitoba New Brunswick Ontario Prince Edward Island Quebec Saskatchewan * USA 367 Arkansas California Connecticut Florida Georgia Hawaii Illinois Indiana Iowa SOUTH DAKOTA Kansas Kentucky Louisiana Maryland Massachusetts Michigan Minnesota Missouri Nebraska New Hampshire New Mexico New York North Carolina Ohio Oregon Pennsylvania South Carolina Tennessee Texas Utah Virgin Islands Virginia Washington Wisconsin New Jersey Central America 1 * Mexico 1 Campeche South America 18 * Argentina 1 * Columbia 1 * Brazil 15 Parana State Sao Paula State Bahia State Paraiba State * Chile 1 West Pacific countries 21 * Australia 9 * Japan 3 * New Zealand 8 * Taiwan 1 West Europe 63 * Belgium 5 * Denmark 3 * Finland 2 * France 2 * Germany 7 * United Kingdom (Great Britain) 19 England Sheffield Nottingham Chester Kent Northern Ireland Scotland Wales * Italy 3 * Netherlands 10 * Norway 2 * Spain 4 * Sweden 4 * Switzerland 2 East Europe 8 * Croatia 2 * Cyprus 1 * Czech Republic 1 * Estonia 1 * Hungary 1 * Latvia 1 * Slovenia 1 Africa * South Africa 6 Asia * Israel 3 This is a list of Countries and some states and provinces that have participants. If you would like to see your country/state/province listed simply send me a personal message. Remember, this is just for interest. You will win no prize and will be on no mailing list. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 May 1995 17:26:09 GMT Reply-To: Gordon@apis.demon.co.uk Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Gordon Scott Subject: Re: DRONES Ron Harriger wrote: > Fellow keepers of the bee, > > I visited a bee yard the other day and from a distance I could see numerous > bees on the ground. As I got closer I could tell that most of them were dead > and a few were moving about. The good thing about it is they all were drones. > As I stood and watched for a while I witnessed other drones being dragged out > of the hive and dropped to the ground...... I have that here in the UK at the moment. I'm pretty certain here that it's a combination of over production of drones and a stretch of cold weather (13-15 C) causing a gap in the honey flow. The colonies all have plenty of stores (so far) and only light varroa infestation, so I guess mine are just checking their insurance policy. Of course there could be other reasons where you are. Regards, -- Gordon Scott Gordon@apis.demon.co.uk 100332,3310 on CompuServe Newsletter Beekeeper@apis.demon.co.uk ditto Beekeeper, Kendo Sandan, sometime sailor. Basingstoke, Hampshire, RG22 5HP, UK ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 May 1995 17:32:37 GMT Reply-To: Gordon@apis.demon.co.uk Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Gordon Scott Subject: Re: queenless hives In message <9505160204.aa08143@punt2.demon.co.uk> godave@infi.net writes: > Please, anyone: > If a hive is truly queenless, even if for only a very short time, > will workers continue bringing in pollen? > Put another way: > If workers are seen carrying pollen into the hive, can you assume > that colony is queenright? > Thanks in anticipation. > Dave I don't think you can safely make an assumption like that. Whilst they have brood they will certainly continue to bring in pollen. Even if that brood is worker-laid drone I would expect them to do the same. My guess therefore is that they would continue to bring in pollen for at least 9 days after loss of the queen (i.e. until everything is capped) and probably for longer to maintain reserves. If you think they're queenless, probably the best (but not perfect) test is to give them a frame of brood all stages. If they're queenless they will almost certainly start drawing emergency queen cells. Regards, -- Gordon Scott Gordon@apis.demon.co.uk 100332,3310 on CompuServe Newsletter Beekeeper@apis.demon.co.uk ditto Beekeeper, Kendo Sandan, sometime sailor. Basingstoke, Hampshire, RG22 5HP, UK ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 17 May 1995 12:29:40 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: John Batson Subject: laying workers' flight? In-Reply-To: Item Subject: Message text Recent discussions suggested that laying workers can't fly, or don't fly as well as non-laying workers, and that is why dumping all bees out in the grass some distance from the hive will work when requeening. Can someone explain why laying workers can't fly so well? Real queens can fly....I don't understand why a laying worker (that is much smaller than a real queen) can't fly. Does anyone know of any research to substantiate the claim that laying workers don't fly well? Thanks, John Batson Greenville SC BATSON_JOHN/FURMAN@FURMAN.EDU ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 17 May 1995 12:38:17 -0400 Reply-To: Mason Harris Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Mason Harris Subject: swarming Hi folks! Question. I had a large 12lb swarm I captured about 5 weeks ago. i put them into a deep Brood Chamber (BC) and fed them a gallon of 1:1. I put in 2 apistam strips and mdicated them with a dusting of TM-25. They drew of the 10 frames of permadent foundation in about one week. I them put a medium honey super on so they could have stores for the winter. I again medicated with TM-25 and they drew out and filled but did not cap about 7 frames in about 2 weeks. I then put on another BC under the queen excluder and homey super. I checked a week later and the queen had gone into the new BC and started laying eggs. I also saw uncapped larva on about 3 frames. I medicated again. All looked great. They were very stingy bees and probably should have been requeened but she was laying wall to wall eggs! I put up with the bad temperment. One week later they swarmed and I found about 8 gallons of bees in a ball 50' up in an oak tree over the apiary. Question. Why did they swarm? They had plenty of room and the queen had gone up into the new BC and began laying eggs. I am new at this so I read alot of books. The books indicate I was doing thing correctly and this should not have happened. It is becomming clear to me that the bees don't read the books. The only things I can think of is that I over medicated them( I followed directions) or I went into the hive too often (once a week to 10 days). Does anyone have any ideas? I put out 4 bait hives with nasanoff pheremone microviles on them with no luck. Three days later they left never to bee seen again. I would have tried to recapture them but 50' was too high up. Any ideas and suggustions on what to do differently in the future are welcomed. Was it a mistake putting on an additional BC or shuld I have just put on more honey supers? I really did not think they were crowded. Mason Harris Burlingame, CA E-Mail: SMHARRIS@ED.CO.SANMATEO.CA.US ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 17 May 1995 13:58:53 +0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Daniel Tremblay Subject: paraffin wax to treat american foolbrood Dear beeliners, I know that in New Zealand the beekeepers use paraffin wax to sterilize hive parts from colonies infected with AFB. I read an article about this in the American bee journal of july 1992. I would like to know what is the exact principle by which this product operate to treat AFB and also if someone had some experience with this kind of treatment. Thank you for your help France Desjardins ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 17 May 1995 12:28:30 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Subject: Re: laying workers' flight? In-Reply-To: <9505171621.AA25556@cuugnet.cuug.ab.ca> > Recent discussions suggested that laying workers can't > fly, or don't fly as well as non-laying workers, and that > is why dumping all bees out in the grass some distance > from the hive will work when requeening. Could it just be that they do not know where the hive mis, having not been out lately and have little chance of finding it again? W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper VE6CFK Rural Route One Swalwell Alberta Canada T0M 1Y0 Email: dicka@cuug.ab.ca or allend@internode.net Futures, Art & Honey:http://www.cuug.ab.ca:8001/~dicka ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 17 May 1995 15:47:48 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jeremy Burbidge Subject: Formic Acid & varroa We have heard from Europe that beekeepers have been permanently and totally blinded by improper use of formic acid to control varroa. Can anyone confirm this as fact or rumour ? Jeremy Burbidge Publisher Bee Biz, the magazine for the commercial beekeeper world wide. Replies would be appreciated to ruxbury@delphi.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 17 May 1995 16:47:00 GMT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Andy Nachbaur Organization: Wild Bee's BBS Subject: Re: Varroa Treatments ES<>From: Edward Sterling <>Date: Wed, 17 May 1995 09:32:05 -0400 <>Subject: Re: Varroa Treatments ES<>Mark recently said: <>>The other treatment is a heat treating apparatus sold by Better Way (the ES<>That's interesting. Most comments on this list seem to indicate varroa <>take their toll in the off-season. Though perhaps present at all times of Hello Ed and fellow keepers of bees, NO one knows the answer to the US varroa problem other then that those who use the strips as recommended seem to be having a high degree of success. There is always going to be the exception and I think I see more reports from beekeepers who say they are using the strips according to the directions and still having hives die out. The problem as I see it right now is two fold, almost everyone is using the strips so no one really knows what the losses would be if they were not. And having local unexplained losses of bee's was a common occurrence prior to the introduction of any mite, so if a beekeeper who was using strips had a loss there is really no way to tell if the strips failed or the loss was from some cause other then varroa. And the same can be said by the few who for what ever reason have not used any chemical control at all and have their hives die. We are checkmated or polarized by our own lack of knowledge. As for how the bees that are not treated die, I can say from my own observations of untreated hives that if your bees have varroa and if anything reduces the population of bees in the hive the last bees that die will almost all have varroa mites on their bodies. I can't say the varroa killed them, but it sure does not benefit them. Most others will say without any hesitation the varroa is killing them and who is to say they are wrong as it can't be demonstrated one way or another. But it can be demonstrated that beekeepers who treat for mites are not losing bees, so they say. ?What I can't get clear in my own mind after observing the loss of 100% of all the untreated hives in several yards of over 100 hives is how the mites could effect all the hives the same at the same time.? A few years ago I picked up an abandoned white kitten in one of my bee yards, it was slowly starving to death as it was still on milk. You would not believe how many flea's that kitten had. I used a heavy duty flea spray and it turned completely red from the blood covering the flea bites. If that cat had died, and I am sure it would have, it could be easy to say the fleas killed it. But I know that the fleas were the result of the cat's poor nutrition and environment and the cat was starving to death. Yet for most beekeeper when a beehive dies and it has mites it dies from some mite? Until I read that some area of the world that once had great losses of bees from varroa and is no longer having those losses without treatments then I must assume that the varroa is here to stay and will have to be treated, and the feral population of bees will continue its reported dramatic decline. And even then judging from the use of other chemicals in the hive for AFB, I would not expect beekeepers who are now using mite strips to stop using them without some other treatment developed without chemicals. At the same time I know that there are places in the world that are very productive for honey bees and have had varroa for many years and the beekeepers do not treat. Maybe they have bees that are different, or maybe there are other factors we have yet learned to measure. Or maybe we are suffering from the lack of communication between beekeepers. I would like to hear more on what is going on with varroa in Eastern Europe, and South America, as to losses, and treatments or no treatments. ttul Andy- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 18 May 1995 01:07:41 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Brian Tassey Subject: Re: Vetch for Honeybees Mike, We have a Vetch here in the Central Valley of CA that I have always called Purple Vetch. It was planted a great deal with oats as a forage blend to cut for hay. It has escaped fields and reseeded roadsides and fallow ground everywhere. Its been blooming for about a month now but the rain and crummy spring temps have made it difficult for the bees to make much. Here it typically doesn't produce until the hills begin to dry up which is about the middle of May. We can usually count on a deep super or more from the strong colonies. The flow is short (about 3 weeks) but it really builds divides and the hives we put into the early melons. The honey is a light tasting,water white color. Seeds are readily available but the draw back is that what does well here will most likely respond differently in different locales. If your looking for a plant to "double-dip" with you ought to talk to the beekeepers in your area. They would probably be able to give you a list of possible plants. Brian Tassey Kaykin@aol.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 18 May 1995 01:05:21 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Brian Tassey Subject: Re: Formic Acid & varroa Jeremy, I can't vouch for the blindness. I know that it is entirely possible with Formic. It's nasty stuff and should be used very carefully if at all. It doesn't cause the itchy burning sensation that you might associate with an "acid" so you could have skin contact and not really realize it. I've lost a few layers of skin on my hands and wrist before due to contact with 65% solution. Accidents happen no matter how careful one might be. What I would like you to consider is the damage to lung and sinus tissue by those that refuse to wear respirators. The vapors are awful and the wind always changes directions. It may be a fabulous chemical but I think the draw backs outweigh the benefits. Brian Tassey Kaykin @aol.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 18 May 1995 16:57:41 CST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Falconer Henry Subject: Marking Queens On the subject of queen marking, someone in the bee club in Victoria, British Columbia showed me a handy way of marking queens which I have used success- fully for years. First of all, buy small bottles of model aircraft paint (it may still be called 'dope' in the U.K.), the stuff used for stretching and colouring the fabric. Any good hobby shop stocks it. It comes in all five required colours, dries in seconds and doesn't seem to smell bad to bees. Pick light hues rather than dark ones; this makes it easier to see a marked queen. Prepare each bottle of paint as follows. Get a cork which fits tightly in the neck of the bottle, make an approximately 1/16 inch (1.5 mm) diameter hole through it with a drill or by other means, and push the cork into the neck of the bottle until it is flush with the top. Take an aluminum nail (they are used for some purpose in construction - about 1 1/2 in (4 cm) long, a bit over 1/16 in diam, with a large flat head) and file off the point of the nail i.e. so that the formerly sharp end is now flat, and push this through the hole in the cork into the fluid. The cap should then be screwed back on tightly. Before looking for the queen to be marked, select the appropriate colour, take off the cap, and ease the aluminum nail up a bit. When the queen is found, pull out the nail. The cork will wipe any paint off the sides of the nail, leaving a neat disk of paint which can be dabbed on the thorax. It dries in seconds and the queen can be released. This system is proof against most of the accidents that can happen in the beeyard. Even if the bottle is knocked over when the nail is out, the paint will not pass through the fine hole in the cork. A small bottle of each colour prepared in this way will last most beekeepers a lifetime. If you are a beginner learning to mark queens, practise on drones! Falconer Henry rfh@pacific.ntf.flinders.edu.au -- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 18 May 1995 10:44:54 +0100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jean-Marie Van Dyck Subject: Re: Laying workers' flight? Hi Bee-lovers ! About laying workers flying ... On Wed, 17 May 1995 12:29:40 -0400 John Batson (Greenville SC) wrote ... > Recent discussions suggested that laying workers can't > fly, or don't fly as well as non-laying workers, and that > is why dumping all bees out in the grass some distance > from the hive will work when requeening. On Wed, 17 May 1995 12:28:30 -0600 W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper (Swalwell Alberta Canada VE6CFK) asked ... > Could it just be that they do not know where the hive mis, having not > been out lately and have little chance of finding it again? Thu, 18 May 1995 10:15 +0200 Yes Allen, and your opinion is in agreement with the advices of the Luxemburg Buckfast Bee Breeder Jos Guth : Laying workers are a serious problem to a breeder : don't dump them in your breeding yard but at least at 2-3 km ! In your breeding area, the next cases could happen : Dumped laying workers get in ... 1/ a nuc with queen cells and they destroy them ! 2/ a "waiting for a cell" nuc and this never more accept them ! 3/ a nuc with young queen (not established -adult- before 4 to 6 weeks - Brother Adam in his book Beekeeping at Buckfast Abbey) and kill her or causes her balling ! In an ordinary beeyard with only established colonies with laying queens, there is usually no problem : the laying workers *don't enter* or *can't enter* these hives. Cheers Jean-Marie ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 18 May 1995 05:17:34 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Subject: JZBZ Cell protectors In-Reply-To: <9505180846.AA19500@cuugnet.cuug.ab.ca> On Thu, 18 May 1995, Jean-Marie Van Dyck wrote: > In your breeding area, the next cases could happen : > Dumped laying workers get in ... > > 1/ a nuc with queen cells and they destroy them ! This reminds me. . . We always (when we remember) put JZBZ cell protectors on queen cells as soon as they are capped. It saves a lot of grief -- ie. splits made, nucs ready, or whatever, and then you go to get the cells to find them destroyed due to a stray queen at the last minute. I never hear this practice recomended. Why? W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper VE6CFK Rural Route One Swalwell Alberta Canada T0M 1Y0 Email: dicka@cuug.ab.ca or allend@internode.net Futures, Art & Honey:http://www.cuug.ab.ca:8001/~dicka ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 18 May 1995 15:50:53 +0100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jean-Marie Van Dyck Subject: Re: JZBZ Cell protectors On Thu, 18 May 1995 05:17:34 -0600 W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper asked ... > We always (when we remember) put JZBZ cell protectors on queen cells as > soon as they are capped. It saves a lot of grief -- ie. splits made, nucs > ready, or whatever, and then you go to get the cells to find them destroyed > due to a stray queen at the last minute. > I never hear this practice recomended. Why? Bonjour Allen ! I don't know how are this JZBZ protectors. In Belgium we generally have the two "NICOT" queen cells protectors 1. Only a plain polypropylene tube to put the mature queen cell in. We use it the last days (10-11 after the picking). 2. A larger PP tube with different sized holes we use when we put the cells in incubator. This may be use in the hives (or nucs) but a/ if you don't open the bee ports : the cell temperature is not quite OK because a lack of bees on the cell. b/ if you open the bee ports : a laying worker may destroy the cell ... Your opinion ? Jean-Marie ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 18 May 1995 07:58:53 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Eric Abell Subject: Re: Formic Acid & varroa In-Reply-To: <9505171937.AA73763@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca> On Wed, 17 May 1995, Jeremy Burbidge wrote: > We have heard from Europe that beekeepers have been permanently and totally > blinded by improper use of formic acid to control varroa. Can anyone confirm > this as fact or rumour ? > > Jeremy Burbidge > Publisher Bee Biz, the magazine for the commercial beekeeper world wide. > > Replies would be appreciated to ruxbury@delphi.com > Formic acid is scary, scary stuff. Here are some short excerpts from a Fischer Scientific publication 90/12/12. "A worker spashed in the face with hot formic acid developed marked dyspnea and dysphagia and died within 6 hours" "One case case been reported of a worker who had an unknown concentration of formic acid splashed in his eye. Despite immediate irrigation with water, the cornea became infiltrated with blood vessels, and dense symblepharon between the upper lid and limbus, and clouding of cornea resulted. Following recovery vision remained 3/10 at best." I cannot put my hands on it at the moment but I recall reading that the vapours are damaging at 16 ppm but that the odour cannot be detected until 21 ppm. If you intent to use formic acid be sure to do your homework and BE CAREFUL. Eric Abell email: eabell@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca Gibbons, AB, T0A 1N0 Canada (403) 998 3143 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 18 May 1995 19:10:57 GMT Reply-To: ibra@matheson.demon.co.uk Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: ibra Subject: Re: paraffin wax to treat american foolbrood On Wednesday 17, May 1995 France Desjardins wrote : > I know that in New Zealand the beekeepers use paraffin wax to sterilize hive > parts from colonies > infected with AFB. I read an article about this in the American bee journal > of july 1992. > I would like to know what is the exact principle by which this product > operate to treat AFB and > also if someone had some experience with this kind of treatment. It's simple thermal death (155-160 C for 10-15 minutes), coupled with the fact that the liquid paraffin penetrates into the wood, reaching any spores that have been locked away in wax or propolis deposits. Beekeepers in New Zealand build paraffin dippers primarily for preserving hive parts: the same temperature for only a few minutes greatly extends their life, even for soft untreated radiata (Monterey) pine. Andrew -- ************************************************************************** * From Andrew Matheson, Director, International Bee Research Association * * * * E.mail (home): ibra@matheson.demon.co.uk * * (office): ibra@cardiff.ac.uk * * * * IBRA, 18 North Road, Cardiff CF1 3DY, UK * * Fax (+44) 1222-665522 Telephone (+44) 1222-372409 * ************************************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 18 May 1995 19:04:29 GMT Reply-To: ibra@matheson.demon.co.uk Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: ibra Subject: Re: Varroa Treatments Andy Nachbaur said recently: Or > maybe we are suffering from the lack of communication between > beekeepers. I would like to hear more on what is going on with varroa > in Eastern Europe, and South America, as to losses, and treatments or > no treatments. In 1993 IBRA organized a workshop in the Czech Republic for scientists from European Union countries working on varroa as well as those from eastern and central European countries. The papers presented were published last year as 'New perspectives on varroa' (164 pages), and there are accounts of varroa research and control programmes from Slovakia, Poland, Lithuania, Bulgaria, Czech Republic and Hungary, as well as EU countries. It's available from ibra (ibra@cardiff.ac.uk) for 26 dollars including postage. In general the approach has been towards widespread use of chemicals, though the Czech Republic has an interesting story to tell about the benefits of organized control measures. Andrew ************************************************************************** * From Andrew Matheson, Director, International Bee Research Association * * * * E.mail (home): ibra@matheson.demon.co.uk * * (office): ibra@cardiff.ac.uk * * * * IBRA, 18 North Road, Cardiff CF1 3DY, UK * * Fax (+44) 1222-665522 Telephone (+44) 1222-372409 * ************************************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 18 May 1995 20:58:00 GMT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Andy Nachbaur Organization: Wild Bee's BBS Subject: Re: Varroa Treatments <>From: ibra <>Date: Thu, 18 May 1995 19:04:29 GMT <>Subject: Re: Varroa Treatments I<>Andy Nachbaur said recently: <>> maybe we are suffering from the lack of communication between <>> beekeepers. I would like to hear more on what is going on with varroa <>> in Eastern Europe, and South America, as to losses, and treatments or <>> no treatments. I<>It's available from ibra (ibra@cardiff.ac.uk) for 26 dollars including <>postage. I<>In general the approach has been towards widespread use of chemicals, though <>the Czech Republic has an interesting story to tell about the benefits of <>organized control measures. I<>Andrew Thanks Andrew, Thats all well and good, but I am more interested in hearing what beekeeper's have to say first hand and not what other's are reporting, but I will read the official reports also. I find that much of the so called (BS), bee science, reports appear designed to generate interest in funding for next year's study and report, then offering candid first hand observations. And in some cases they appear to be more part of the chemical industry research, and more valuable to the same industry, then part of the beekeeping industry. In BS it is alway's "the sky is falling", but we have a silver bullet in the back room that with just a little more time and some big buck's will solve all your problems. Often I wonder if there is anybody in the bee industry that can offer his hand out in brother hood and not just to get into my pockets. ttul Andy- Los Banos, CA BTW If you have an ascii text file on the IBRA, and or price lists of publication you have for sale I would be happy to ad them to the Wild Bee's BBS beekeeping internet e-mail auto FAQ system. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 18 May 1995 22:21:33 +0100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Subject: Re: JZBZ Cell protectors In-Reply-To: <199505181424.AA25105@internode.net> On Thu, 18 May 1995, Jean-Marie Van Dyck wrote: > On Thu, 18 May 1995 05:17:34 -0600 > W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper asked ... > > > We always (when we remember) put JZBZ cell protectors on queen cells as > > soon as they are capped. It saves a lot of grief -- ie. splits made, nucs > > ready, or whatever, and then you go to get the cells to find them destroyed > > due to a stray queen at the last minute. > > > I never hear this practice recomended. Why? > > Bonjour Allen ! > > I don't know how are this JZBZ protectors. In Belgium we generally have > the two "NICOT" queen cells protectors The JZBZ are are an ample sized rigid plastic mesh device with a tang to push into the comb, or optionally, two double fingers for hanging between frames. > > 1. Only a plain polypropylene tube to put the mature queen cell in. > We use it the last days (10-11 after the picking). > > 2. A larger PP tube with different sized holes we use when we put the > cells in incubator. This may be use in the hives (or nucs) but > a/ if you don't open the bee ports : the cell temperature is not quite OK > because a lack of bees on the cell. I would have thought taht the temperature would be pretty constant through the whole brood area, or incubator. I can see how the queen might have trouble breathing thru the cell walls though, with a plastic tube around the cell. > b/ if you open the bee ports : a laying worker may destroy the cell ... I think the protectors we use have no adverse effects, and have a number of positive advantages. Moreover they are very cheap. I wouldn't be without them, because, for example today, I had 22 splits on top of excluders in three differnet yards. They were made up a few hours previously by my crews as they were reversing and feeding etc. They phoned me the locations and out I went with the ripe cells. I slipped a dividing board under each and put a cell in between the top bars. Without the protector, the cell would be torn down before the bees knew they were queenless. This way, I have only one trip (10 miles) and the cell will endure and be accepted by the time the new queen comes out. Allen ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 19 May 1995 10:33:56 CST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Vladimir Ptacek Subject: Re: Formic Acid & varroa On Thu, 18 May 1995 07:58:53 -0600, Eric Abell wrote: >On Wed, 17 May 1995, Jeremy Burbidge wrote: > >> We have heard from Europe that beekeepers have been permanently and totally >> blinded by improper use of formic acid to control varroa. Can anyone confirm >> this as fact or rumour ? >> >> Jeremy Burbidge >> Publisher Bee Biz, the magazine for the commercial beekeeper world wide. In Czech Republic, the Bee Research Institute at Dol near Prague, 252 66 Libcice n. Vlt., has developped a protective preparation using the formic acide which ought to enable the regulation of the evaporation according to the ambient temperature and the strenght of the colony. Its name is "Formidol" and it should be active against the chalk brood as well. I personally have not any experience with this, I am going to try it in my four colonies which shoved the presence of chalk brood. Or have someone of you any reliable method hov to controle this disease? Thanks, Vladimir Ptacek, ptacek.sci.muni.cz ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 19 May 1995 12:07:51 +0100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jean-Marie Van Dyck Subject: Re: JZBZ Cell protectors Comments: To: dicka@cuug.ab.ca On Thu, 18 May 1995, Jean-Marie Van Dyck wrote: > a/ if you don't open the bee ports : the cell temperature is not quite OK > because a lack of bees on the cell. On Thu, 18 May 1995 22:21:33 +0100 Allen Dick answered : > I would have thought taht the temperature would be pretty constant > through the whole brood area, or incubator. I can see how the queen > might have trouble breathing thru the cell walls though, with a plastic > tube around the cell. Hi Allen ! Ok the temp. is constant in an incubator with blower but in the hive, the bees take care of the temperature throught the brood. 1/ I don't know how they do this but I remember an article (I don't have time to find author and ref) speaking about an extremely specific chemical (1,2-DIOLEYL-3-PALMITOYL-rac- GLYCEROL) secreted by the pupa (workers, drones and *queens*) through the capping wax. This chemical (and only this) causes the bees are running on the brood : they ran a lot on false queen cells treated with the chemical ! Maybe this is the signal to keep high temp. through the brood ? 2/ I don't know which *weather* you have today in Alberta but here in Belgium, today, with a lot of queen cells in all stages, we have had 2-5 degC tonight and 11-15 C afternoon with very cold north wind. We must be sure the queen cells are in good condition. So I don't like to separate cells from the bees and I'm only using protectors when necessary (the last day when I put them in the nucs but not always) Hope this move the discussion ahead ? (french speaking ... Is this correct?) PS. I would like to see your JZBZ protectors. Regards. Jean-Marie ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 19 May 1995 13:37:05 +0100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jean-Marie Van Dyck Subject: Re: paraffin wax (Microwax) and AFB Hello all, bee-lovers ! On Wednesday 17, May 1995 France Desjardins wrote : > I know that in New Zealand the beekeepers use paraffin wax to sterilize > hive parts from colonies infected with AFB. [some cut] ... On Thu, 18 May 1995 19:10:57 GMT Andrew Matheson answered : > It's simple thermal death (155-160 C for 10-15 minutes), coupled with > the fact that the liquid paraffin penetrates into the wood, reaching > any spores that have been locked away in wax or propolis deposits. > Beekeepers in New Zealand build paraffin dippers primarily for > preserving hive parts: the same temperature for only a few minutes > greatly extends their life, even for soft untreated radiata (Monterey) > pine. Microwax dipping : some remarks since we are using this process ... 1/ PROPOLIS and AFB spores beeswax is soluble in microwax and it is no problem to dip it in paraffin but propolis is not at all and the result is not very beautiful : a lot of propolis drops on the whole surface. Actually we have decided first to wash all the material while dipping for 10 min in a boiling alcaline water bath (different recipes). With a detergent, the beeswax *and* old microwax *and* propolis are dissolved. Without a detergent, both the wax become liquid and are floating on top of the bath (you must remove them) and the propolis is quite dissolved. After such a treatment the number of remaining foulbrood spores is reduced and the new wax dipping excellent : beautiful results and microwax remains clear. 2/ TEMPERATURE temperature of the wax bath : keep in mind that the different glues don't support too high temperatures. We are using polyurethane glues which support 130-140 deg C (from RectaVit). Don't forget that the thickness of the wood diminishes (about 1 mm). 3/ I'M WONDERING WHY no new paper (articles) about chemicals as fatty acids is published since the 2 articles in Apidologie 1993 vol 24(2) pp 89-99 (since 2 year today). Maybe no research is made in this line? Maybe the authors are waiting to publish their results at the Lausanne Apimondia Congress ? WHAT WASTE TIME AND MONEY FOR BEEKEEPERS WITH AFB in theirs own hives ! Can I suggest this ... +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ In my mind, the case of "lauric acid" is a good choice because this product is stable even at high temp. and very toxic to AFB. It is not soluble in water, sugar syrup and honey, but it is quite soluble in the waxes (beeswax *and* microwax) and it is not expensive (about US$25/kg). It could be added in microwax before dipping. It could be added to the beeswax foundations. It could be serve to protect the other AFB contamined materials while dipping it in an alcoholic (methanol or ethanol 0.2-0.5 %) solutions after the alcaline cleaning. The "nec plus ultra" solution is to find a line of honeybees which secrete one of this fatty acids in her own beeswax ! Research work ! +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ I'm not able to experiment these possibilities for different reasons ! Seems there will be solutions for the beekeepers which live daily the AFB problem ! Hope this help to go ahead (forward?) ! Regards Jean-Marie ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 19 May 1995 07:51:05 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Subject: Re: JZBZ Cell protectors In-Reply-To: <95051912075140@quick.cc.fundp.ac.be> On Fri, 19 May 1995, Jean-Marie Van Dyck wrote: > > On Thu, 18 May 1995, Jean-Marie Van Dyck wrote: > > > a/ if you don't open the bee ports : the cell temperature is not quite OK > > because a lack of bees on the cell. > > On Thu, 18 May 1995 22:21:33 +0100 Allen Dick answered : > > > I would have thought that the temperature would be pretty constant > > through the whole brood area, or incubator. I can see how the queen > > might have trouble breathing thru the cell walls though, with a plastic > > tube around the cell. > > Hi Allen ! > > Ok the temp. is constant in an incubator with blower but in the hive, > the bees take care of the temperature throught the brood. > > 1/ I don't know how they do this but I remember an article (I don't > have time to find author and ref) speaking about an extremely specific > chemical (1,2-DIOLEYL-3-PALMITOYL-rac- GLYCEROL) secreted by the pupa > (workers, drones and *queens*) through the capping wax. This chemical > (and only this) causes the bees are running on the brood : they ran a > lot on false queen cells treated with the chemical ! Maybe this is the > signal to keep high temp. through the brood ? > Could be. > 2/ I don't know which *weather* you have today in Alberta but here in > Belgium, today, with a lot of queen cells in all stages, we have had > 2-5 degC tonight and 11-15 C afternoon with very cold north wind. Exactly the same weather here! > We > must be sure the queen cells are in good condition. So I don't like to > separate cells from the bees and I'm only using protectors when > necessary (the last day when I put them in the nucs but not always) We either use an incubator, or keep the cells with the bees. The bees keep the temperaturte more constant - within one half degree Celcius. We always use protectors when we store in the hive. > > Hope this move the discussion ahead ? (french speaking ... Is this correct?) Yup, your English is good. > > PS. I would like to see your JZBZ protectors. Send me your address by email, and I'll send you one of each. They only cost pennies and are re-useable. Allen W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper VE6CFK Rural Route One Swalwell Alberta Canada T0M 1Y0 Email: dicka@cuug.ab.ca or allend@internode.net Futures, Art & Honey:http://www.cuug.ab.ca:8001/~dicka ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 19 May 1995 07:57:56 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Subject: Re: paraffin wax (Microwax) and AFB In-Reply-To: <9505191138.AA19298@cuugnet.cuug.ab.ca> > > I know that in New Zealand the beekeepers use paraffin wax to sterilize > > hive parts from colonies infected with AFB. As far as I know, being treated with melted wax - whether paraffin as discussed or in melting beeswax for foundation manufacture -- seems to lower the viability of AFB spores tot he extent - depending on temperatures involved - that although they may in some cases still able to be cultured, they are not any threat in the hive. I personally like to imagine that their little holes that allow air and water to penetrate get plugged with wax, effectively weakening their ability to germinate. Allen W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper VE6CFK Rural Route One Swalwell Alberta Canada T0M 1Y0 Email: dicka@cuug.ab.ca or allend@internode.net Futures, Art & Honey:http://www.cuug.ab.ca:8001/~dicka ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 19 May 1995 12:26:33 -0400 Reply-To: Mason Harris Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Mason Harris Subject: gloves and marking kits Does anyone out there Know of a source for: 1-children's beekeepers gloves? I have a 6 year old daughter who loves to "work the bees" with me. I have made her makeshift gloves and she keeps getting stung. I know with much more effort I could make up a pair but I was wondering if any were commercially available. 2-A source for the queen marking kits that use the little plastic caps with numbers on them that are glued on the queen's back. I understand they once came from the UK. Thanks. Mason Harris Burlingame, CA E-Mail: SMHARRIS@ED.CO.SANMATEO.CA.US ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 19 May 1995 09:05:00 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Paul van Westendorp 576-5600 Fax: 576-5652" Subject: Re: Varroa Treatments Andy, You are entitled to your own opinions, but your response to Andrew Matheson's e-mail seems overly harsh and uncalled for. I am not talking on behalf of Andrew but I believe he is, as Director of IBRA, in a better position than most of us to report about some of the things happening in eastern Europe. Why would the reports he refers to be of no value or be inaccurate? IBRA has had and continues to have supportive contacts and roles with beekeeping communities in many parts of the world where most beekeepers do not have personal access to information or the means to communicate with beekeepers in other countries. As was mentioned recently on the BEE-L, the vast majority of subscribers are associated with research facilities, government agencies and the like (all of whom you seem to despise) who have the means to communicate through the Internet. Of all the private subscribers, virtually all are in North America where the access to the Internet is reasonably affordable. Even in western Europe private subscribers pay enormous fees to be on the internet. If you think you will contact east European beekeepers through the Internet, you are dreaming. By the way, the IBRA is not there to sell you anything for a profit. The organization is there to foster beekeeping in all parts of the world through the dissemination of information. To me, a pretty honourable pursuit. Paul van Westendorp pvanwesten@galaxyy.gov.bc.ca Provincial Apiarist British Columbia ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 19 May 1995 23:43:34 +0200 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Staffan Strom Subject: Bear and bees Hi Here in one part of Sweden we rececently have some problems with bears who destroys beehives. This problem is going to be lager here because the bear population are growing. I know that bears and bees are a problem in other parts of the world, so my wonder to you is if any have some tips how to protect the hives for bears, and where can read any about this. Thanks in advance Staffan Strom ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 19 May 1995 21:19:01 -0400 Reply-To: John Moyer Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: John Moyer Subject: Re: Bear and bees In-Reply-To: <199505192145.RAA16563@server1.capaccess.org> On Fri, 19 May 1995, Staffan Strom wrote: > Hi > > Here in one part of Sweden we rececently have some problems with bears > who destroys beehives. > This problem is going to be lager here because the bear population are > growing. > I know that bears and bees are a problem in other parts of the world, so > my wonder to you is if any have some tips how to protect the hives for > bears, and where can read any about this. > > Thanks in advance > Staffan Strom Staffan, The below referenced pamphlets of controlling bears may be of some help. I have not read these leaflets but presume from other articles I have read that they would recommend electrically charged fencing and provide some specifications: Author: Johansen, Carl A.//Burgett, Michael D. Series: Title: Bear Protection for Bees State: Washington Type: Leaflet Pub#: EB 1176 Page: 5 pages Date: December, 1982 Cost: $.25 Aval: es Note: Order from (WA): Bulletin Department, Cooperative Extension, Cooper Publications Building, WSU, Pullman, WA 99164-5912 Author: Sanford, Malcolm T. Series: Hints for the Hive Title: Florida Bears and Beekeeping State: Florida Type: Leaflet Pub#: 105 Page: 2 pages Date: March, 1984 Cost: Free Aval: es Note: Order from (FL): Dr. Malcolm T. Sanford, Florida Cooperative Extension Service, The University of Florida, Bldg 970, Hull Road, Gainesville, FL 32611-0740 Good Luck! -John ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 19 May 1995 22:11:43 +1030 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jean-Pierre Chapleau Subject: Re: JZBZ Cell protectors Comments: To: Jean-Marie Van Dyck In-Reply-To: <199505181939.GAA30888@scuzzy.fmmo.ca> There is one big problem with JZBZ cell protectors: they are too small. Many times you will not even be able to insert the cell in them...!! The ones I have were bought 4-5 years ago. Does Mr Paysen use a new mold now? Unless my cell are oversized! ;) I found that a simple one inch band of aluminium foil wrapped around the cell leaving the tip exposed works very well. _______________________________ ~ |_____JEAN-PIERRE CHAPLEAU______| ~ bee breeder |1282, rang 8, Saint-Adrien,| ~ | Quebec, Canada, J0A 1C0 | vice president of the Canadian Honey Council | phone: (819) 828-3396 | ~ ~ | fax: (819) 828-0357 | ~ ~ | chapleau@scuzzy.fmmo.ca | ~ ~ |______________________________~ ~ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 19 May 1995 22:49:39 +1030 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jean-Pierre Chapleau Subject: Re: paraffin wax (Microwax) and AFB In-Reply-To: <199505182107.HAA31133@scuzzy.fmmo.ca> On Fri, 19 May 1995, Jean-Marie Van Dyck wrote: > (...) Don't forget that the > thickness of the wood diminishes (about 1 mm). > Yes indeed the wood shrinks quite a bit after it is boiled in hot paraffin. It seems like it dries it. Is'nt paradoxal? I also noticed that if the wood contains too much humidity the paraffin solution swells rapidly and quickly boils out of the dipper. It is dangerous since paraffin is very flammable. Does anyone know a trick to prevent this problem. (Maple syrup producers here put a piece of animal fat in an overboiling pan of maple syrup to calm it down.) PARAFFIN DIPPERS For now I use a 45 gallon barrel as a dipper. It is not convenient. It holds only one super at a time. I plan to build a real wax dipper. I have on hand two papers with plans of two different dippers: one by Murray Reid and Andrew Matheson and the other one by Andrew Matheson (do you hear me Andrew?). I think the most recent plan is dated 1986. Does anyone know of improvements since then? Why reinvent what has been invented? ;) MICROWAX??? Jean-Marie, you refer to MICROWAX. What is it. Is this just a brand name or is it a special kind of paraffin. Personnally I have been using what is sold in Canada as grade 2 paraffin. PRICE OF PARAFFIN Here I paid the equivalent of 1.89$ US for my paraffin (500 kilos). I had a hard time to find a supplier. It would be nice to hear from other as far as price and suppliers. I got mine from a big hardware company (Rona) but I am sure there must be other suppliers. Thank you France Desjardins for initiating the discussion on this subject. _______________________________ ~ |_____JEAN-PIERRE CHAPLEAU______| ~ bee breeder |1282, rang 8, Saint-Adrien,| ~ | Quebec, Canada, J0A 1C0 | vice president of the Canadian Honey Council | phone: (819) 828-3396 | ~ ~ | fax: (819) 828-0357 | ~ ~ | chapleau@scuzzy.fmmo.ca | ~ ~ |______________________________~ ~ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 19 May 1995 23:04:44 +1030 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jean-Pierre Chapleau Subject: custom extraction I would like to know what is the price for custom extraction for large quantities of honey in your area (unstrained, just put in barrels). _______________________________ ~ |_____JEAN-PIERRE CHAPLEAU______| ~ bee breeder |1282, rang 8, Saint-Adrien,| ~ | Quebec, Canada, J0A 1C0 | vice president of the Canadian Honey Council | phone: (819) 828-3396 | ~ ~ | fax: (819) 828-0357 | ~ ~ | chapleau@scuzzy.fmmo.ca | ~ ~ |______________________________~ ~ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 19 May 1995 21:04:51 -0800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Mark Jensen Subject: Re: Formic Acid & varroa >Or have >someone of you any reliable method hov to controle this disease? Hi, Vladimir. Our American Bee Journal had an article by Dr Steve Liu (lius@abrsbl.agr.ca) on the use of Margosan (an extract of the neem tree) for control of chalkbrood. I bought a quart and have played around with feeding in sugar syrup according to his instructions. I have not determined if it works or not yet. You should be able to contact him at the e-mail address. Let me know what you find out. Thanks. Mark Jensen-Double J Apiaries mjensen@crl.com Los Altos Hills, CA, USA fax 415 941 3488 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 20 May 1995 13:02:00 GMT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Andy Nachbaur Organization: Wild Bee's BBS Subject: Re: Varroa Treatments To: bee-l@uacsc2.albany.edu Subject: Re: Varroa Treatments <>From: "Paul van Westendorp 576-5600 Fax: 576-5652" AXY.GOV.BC.CA> <>Date: Fri, 19 May 1995 09:05:00 -0700 <>Subject: Re: Varroa Treatments <> Andy, <> You are entitled to your own opinions, but your response to Andrew <> Matheson's e-mail seems overly harsh and uncalled for. I am not <> talking on behalf of Andrew but I believe he is, as Director of IBRA, in <> a better position than most of us to report about some of the things <> happening in eastern Europe. Why would the reports he refers to be of <> no value or be inaccurate? IBRA has had and continues to have <> supportive contacts and roles with beekeeping communities in many parts <> of the world where most beekeepers do not have personal access to <> information or the means to communicate with beekeepers in other <> countries. Tanks Paul, I needed that. I am sure Andrew is a good fellow and though I am not a member of IBRA, I was for many years, until the cost's got a little out of line even for a commercial beekeeper. Yes I can and do express my own opinions and they are just that, my opinions. They may seem a little cynical at times but if I am somewhat of a cynic I learned it from my own 40+ years of beekeeping experience. <> As was mentioned recently on the BEE-L, the vast majority of subscribers <> are associated with research facilities, government agencies and the <> like (all of whom you seem to despise) who have the means to communicate <> through the Internet. Of all the private subscribers, virtually all are <> in North America where the access to the Internet is reasonably <> affordable. Even in western Europe private subscribers pay enormous <> fees to be on the internet. If you think you will contact east European <> beekeepers through the Internet, you are dreaming. No I don't despise any class of beekeepers, be they large producers, hobby beekeepers, academics, regulators, or what ever sex, color, race, or religion. I do find fault with the cozy relationship some have had that has caused much harm to individual beekeepers because of bad science and poor regulations. I also don't judge any book by it's cover or it's price. As far as the cost of the access to e-mail, it is very reasonable in the US and other places outside of the academic community. Any beekeeper or their friends can for the price of a telephone call can d/l all the B-List and sci.agri.beekeeping mail from my own bbs in less time then it takes to write this post. Yes, I am a dreamer or I would not have set up the system 5 years ago, and I do get messages and calls from beekeepers world wide. Not as many as I dreamed of, but I forget sometime's that not all beekeeper's have modems and cpu's,..cell phones...maybe. <> By the way, the IBRA is not there to sell you anything for a profit. <> The organization is there to foster beekeeping in all parts of the world <> through the dissemination of information. To me, a pretty honourable <> pursuit. To tell you the honest truth I have been a small business person all my life, never had a real job or pay check other then from keeping bees, I Love My Boss, because I am self employed and I am no longer impressed by non profit business, maybe because my own has been that way many times. So I don't see anything more honorable about selling information for a profit or SELLING it not for profit. But I must agree the IBRA is a good service to those who can afford it. I have hope's that in the future more will become available on-line so more beekeepers can have access to more information at less cost if not from the IBRA then some other source. Thanks for your comments' ttul Andy- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 17 May 1995 22:27:14 GMT Reply-To: Gordon@apis.demon.co.uk Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Gordon Scott Subject: Re: Swarmy Bees Dave Green writes: > John M. Moote wrote: > > Since I'm new at this, I'm not completely sure what I was > looking at but it looked like swarm cells. I checked a book later and it > appears that I was right. > The empty frames go into the old hive on the new stand. Whichever side > gets the queen will get her. Neither side is likely to swarm right away, as > they both have been sufficiently weakened, and they'll think they succeeded > in reproducing.... [Lots of excellent advice omitted] A caveate here and (I think anyway) an amusing anecdote. A friend in this situation made an artificial swarm like this, and put the old queen in the new location and left the rest of the colony in the old location. Within the hour, the old bees on the old site noticed that "mum" had gone, and mum on the new site noticed that the old bees had gone, and the whole lot tried to catch up with each other and ..... swarmed. Of course, if you want to arrange a swarm for a public demo this could be a way to do it. Maybe this phenomenon is geograpically influenced. Regards, -- Newsletter Beekeeper@apis.demon.co.uk Compuserve 100332,3310 Gordon Scott Gordon@apis.demon.co.uk ditto Basingstoke Beekeeper. The Newsletter of the Basingstoke & District Beekeepers' Association. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 20 May 1995 19:30:31 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Michael Stoops Subject: Re: Formic Acid & varroa In-Reply-To: <199505180509.AAA29945@Paula-Formby.tenet.edu> I think, as with all chemicals, proper safety precautions should be used. With formic acid, that would naturally include respirator, safety goggles if not included with respirator, chemical protection gloves and suit. Better pick a nice, bu cool, day when you do that because it's goin' to get awfully hot fairly quickly if it's warm out. Mike Stoops mws@tenet.edu ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 21 May 1995 08:29:28 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Subject: Read Old Issues of BEE-L by Web or Email Contents: 1.) Web access to BEE-l 2.) Email access to historical BEE-L discussions 3.) How to ensure the logs are not too large to save in future There are two ways now to read back issues of BEE-L. ~~~~~~~~ 1. ) BEE-l can presently be read on the Worldwide Web by pointing your brouser at http://www.internode.net:80/~allend/index.html This is a NEW URL. You can also still get there from http://www.cuug.ab.ca:8001/~dicka The National (USA) Honey Board Database is also there to brouse or download. Most logs going back to 1991 are available on my web sites. Some are missing. If you have any old logs on hand that are not there, kindly forward them to me by email. If you have web access, either by PPP and a graphical brouser or by lynx (a UNIX brouser available on many UNIX shell accounts by typing the command 'lynx'), this is the fast, simple way to go. 2.) For those with no web access, logs are also available quite conveniently by email from LISTSERV@uacsc2.albany.edu However they only go back to 1994. Due to the increasing size of recent logs and limited space on the LISTSERV, the older logs have been displaced. To have a BEE-L log emailed to you: ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Just send a message with no subject (subject lines are ignored) to LISTSERV@uacsc2.albany.edu with the message GET BEE-L LOGMMYY Where MM is the month (ie. 05 for May) and YY is the year (ie. 95 for 1995). Additional logs requested can be added on up to four more lines in your message. Be aware of the spacing of the words (No space in LOG9505, for example). Leave out any other text -- such as .signatures. Additional text - other than lines with additional commands -- will trigger harmless error messages from the LISTSERV. The log will arrive some time later in your mailbox. Warning: logs can be 650 K in size. 3.)Therefore please edit your contributions to BEE-L and leave off long sigs: ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Please, everyone, when posting to BEE-L, consider the size of your .signature file and limit the amount of previous articles quoted to what is necessary to understand your comments -- Thanks. Please edit out all signatures and unnecessary (irrelevant) parts of the quoted message to reduce the amount of material going into the logs. This will keep the size mangeable. The log for the present month is over 425K now -- and much of this is due to vanity sigs and over-quoting. What uses up space? Entire blank lines use only one byte, so feel free to use lots of blank lines if it makes your message easy to read. For example the previous (empty) line used only one byte! Part lines use one byte for each character visible plus one, so they are not wasteful either. The above partial line is 21 bytes because I did not add any spaces after the '.' '>' alone on a line is only two bytes. However the blank spaces in signatures, used to space things out, count one byte per space, or up to eighty bytes per line. For example: my sig below uses 216 bytes (54 bytes per line times four lines). This is equivalent to one four line paragraph of text. So, please don't quote it when you quote me. I hope this info is useful and encourages more compact logs without discouraging people from posting -- after all the posts are what make this list interesting and useful. Enjoy. Allen W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper VE6CFK Rural Route One Swalwell Alberta Canada T0M 1Y0 Email: dicka@cuug.ab.ca or allend@internode.net Futures, Art & Honey:http://www.cuug.ab.ca:8001/~dicka ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 21 May 1995 09:58:13 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: P Kneeland <0002hcs@INFORMNS.K12.MN.US> Subject: Chicory, or succory Hi fellow Bee-L folks! I've been looking for a source of chicory, sometimes known as succory. My family and I raise rabbits as well as bees. Many of the plants that the bees love to visit are also very healthy for the rabbits unique digestive systems. I know that this plant has several uses and I was hoping that some reader might have an idea where it could be found in either the seed form or a manner that could be transplanted. Thanks for any potential assistance, Peter Kneeland Hill City, Minnesota USA Wings and Wabbits, The Bee-ten Path 0002hcs@InforMNs.k12.MN.US ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 21 May 1995 12:05:52 +0000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Keith Hooker Organization: Technology Management Ltd Subject: Apis mellifera foraging Has anybody counted honeybees in a large sampling area of a large Raspberry (Rubus ideaus) crop relative to temperature over a number of seasons? I am aware of papers that give details of honeybee counts relative to time of day opn a variety of crops. Several of these give linear regression analysis of foraging relative to temperature that indicates a constant increase in foraging between 10 and 30 C but most of these are based on counts within a limited area over a limited time. Some work that I undertook over 5 years seems to indicate that honeybee numbers increase to about 22 C (ish) then fall off. There also seems to be multiple modes. A linear regression analysis of this data produces a broadly similar slope to other workers mentioned above but with a poor correlation coefficient. As a beekeeper I can come up with a number of explanations of my findings but would like to confer with anyone who has taken counts in a large sampling area of a large crop, any crop because one of the answers could lie here. Keith >>> Keith JM Hooker <<< >>> Technology Management Ltd <<< >>> 1 Sunray Avenue <<< >>> WHITSTABLE <<< >>> Kent CT5 4ED <<< >>> UK <<< ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 21 May 1995 15:22:20 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Roy Canaday Subject: Re: Chicory, or succory For seeds, I suggest Richters, a supplier of a wide variety of herb seeds and plants in Goodwood, Ontario, Canada, TEL (905) 640-6677. Their catalog is outstanding, too. By the way, I raise rabbits too (Giant Chinchilla) & am curious about chicory's benefits for them?? Good Luck. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 22 May 1995 11:00:21 +0100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jean-Marie Van Dyck Subject: Re: Paraffin wax dipping On Fri, 19 May 1995 22:49:39 +1030 Jean-Pierre Chapleau wrote: PARAFFIN DIPPERS > For now I use a 45 gallon barrel as a dipper. It is not convenient. > It holds only one super at a time. I plan to build a real wax dipper. > I have on hand two papers with plans of two different dippers: one by > Murray Reid and Andrew Matheson and the other one by Andrew Matheson > (do you hear me Andrew?). I think the most recent plan is dated 1986. > Does anyone know of improvements since then? Why reinvent what has > been invented? ;) OK! but your dipper dimensions must be in agreement with your hives and nucs formats and dimensions. The barrel in not the most convenient because it's not a square one and your supers are.:-) I know 2 paraffin wax dippers in my area. They are cubic dippers largely adapted for a Dadant 12 frames brood chamber (about 60x60 cm for the one, about 64x64 cm for the second which is used for dipping the four nucs super with half Dadant frames according the brother Adam breeding method). You could also put 2 Dadant honey supers. The particularity is that it is possible to block a small iron cube! (it's not cubic but higher than wide) on the middel of the dipper to avoid a too important wax quantity to heat when you only dip brood chambers and supers. For bottoms and tops, the small cube is removed. There are 4 iron legs (8 cm square) and wheels to move it (wheight). There is also a tap(1" faucet) to remove the paraffim wax, in any case. But seems there is never used. The cover is also use as a drainer when the dip stuffs are removed from the bath. MICROWAX??? > Jean-Marie, you refer to MICROWAX. What is it. Is this just a brand > name or is it a special kind of paraffin. Personnally I have been using > what is sold in Canada as grade 2 paraffin. Microwax is the term used by our suppliers (seems for microcristalline wax?) but there are some qualities and forms: Qualities : The melting point may vary from 60 dC to 85-90 dC and the price! Forms : You can get it in blocks (5-10 kg : 30 kg/box) or in pearl (25 kg bags) Suppliers : Ask to the Oil refiners : they don't sell the wax in small quantities but give you the technical indications and the suppliers. Look for the candels suppliers : this wax is used to the external part of the candels. PRICE OF PARAFFIN > Here I paid the equivalent of 1.89$ US for my paraffin (500 kilos). > I had a hard time to find a supplier. It would be nice to hear from > other as far as price and suppliers. I got mine from a big hardware > company (Rona) but I am sure there must be other suppliers. prices of microwax in Belgium (April 95) (1 US$ = about 30 BEF =Belgian Franc) quantity +-300 kg Quality HMP (mp 85 dC)(we use this !!) box of 25kg BEF 92/kg (+20.5% VAT) " H330 (mp 75 C) id BEF 66/kg " " LMP (mp 65 C) id BEF 76/kg " The Pearl forms is a bit more expensive ! We are using the High Melting Point one because it seems to have a better comportment in the sun (don't flow as early?) and this seems not so fat when you take it in hands. We plan to do experiments with adding about 1% copper naphthenate in the dip solution. I'll tell you ... Cheers Jean-Marie ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 22 May 1995 07:35:07 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Dave Green, Eastern Pollinator Newsletter" Subject: Re: Vetch for Honeybees In a message dated 95-05-17 08:18:56 EDT, Michael Stoops write: > I've >not heard of any vetch that the honey bees can utilize so if you get >wind >of such, would appreciate letting me know. Vetch's a good ground >cover >and if I could get a honey producer to boot, that would be great. >MIKE Vetch is quite common in the upper coastal plain (I've heard in some areas of the piedmont also) in South Carolina, and is an excellent honey producer. It is high quality - very light and excellent taste. It blooms in late April, early May. I am sorry I can't identify the variety. Farmers hate it because it is a common weed in wheat; it ripens at the same time, and has seeds so close in size that combines can't separate them very well. I can't help but wonder if it has been spread around a bit by Homo apiculturistus. I've been tempted, but haven't. Pollinator@aol.com Dave Green A Kinder, Gentler, Curmudgeon ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 22 May 1995 17:50:38 GMT Reply-To: ibra@matheson.demon.co.uk Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: ibra Subject: Re: paraffin wax (Microwax) and AFB Jean-Pierre Good to hear your comments about paraffin dippers. In the 'Bibliography of New Zealand apiculture 1842-1986' there are a number of articles about paraffin dippers going back to 1939. The most recent are: Reid, G M; Matheson, A G (1978) Waikato version of a paraffin dipper. New Zealand Beekeeper 39(2): 27-28. (AA 137L/79) Matheson, A G (1980) Easily-constructed paraffin wax dipper. New Zealand Beekeeper 41(4): 11-12. (AA 192L/82) The AA numbers are the reference numbers from Apicultural Abstracts. In my running update the only extra reference is a little piece I wrote for Cornucopia 4(2): 2-3 (1990), but I don't think it reported anything new. The 1986 article you refer to is probably from that year's 'Beekeepers Annual' (pp 115-117). It describes the same dipper as in the 1980 article (my shortcuts are now catching up with me!). Has anything changed in the use of paraffin dippers since the mid 1980s? I don't think so, but Murray is the person to ask. He reads BEE-L, so may respond to this. Other comments on your message and its enclosure I also noticed > that if the wood contains too much humidity the paraffin solution swells > rapidly and quickly boils out of the dipper. It is dangerous since > paraffin is very flammable. Does anyone know a trick to prevent this > problem. There are a couple of reasons for avoiding this. Apart from the obvious and very real danger of overflowing wax, I believe that dipping wood that hasn't been properly dried can lead to it rotting 'from the inside out'. The timber must be properly dried before dipping. > PARAFFIN DIPPERS > > For now I use a 45 gallon barrel as a dipper. It is not convenient. It > holds only one super at a time. It is also dangerous. I imagine the seams could burst or break when the barrel is over the fire. The designs described in the article specify a thicker base with the seams welded from both sides for strength. > MICROWAX??? > > Jean-Marie, you refer to MICROWAX. I think this is probably microcrystalline; the Australians who have adopted the paraffin dipping technique swear by the addition of this. Sorry I don't know much about it. And a few points relating to recent postings. Boxes shouldn't feel very waxy after being dipped. If they do, and especially if there are 'candles' of wax attached to the corners, the wax was too cold. The 'Waikato version' dipper mentioned in the 1978 article above features the internal block mentioned in a recent posting. It does cut down the amount of wax you need to begin with (though of course not the wax consupmtion), but the chimney height is often an unsatisfactory compromise between getting smoke in the eyes and having to lift the boxes too high. And of course you need the wax bath slightly wider at one end to accommodate lids and floors. > Thank you France Desjardins for initiating the discussion on this subject. Agreed. Paraffin dipping is a very useful technique, and it's good to see more discussion on it. Andrew -- ************************************************************************** * From Andrew Matheson, Director, International Bee Research Association * * * * E.mail (home): ibra@matheson.demon.co.uk * * (office): ibra@cardiff.ac.uk * * * * IBRA, 18 North Road, Cardiff CF1 3DY, UK * * Fax (+44) 1222-665522 Telephone (+44) 1222-372409 * ************************************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 22 May 1995 15:43:48 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Patrick M O'Hearn <73203.610@COMPUSERVE.COM> Subject: Queenright? Hello All, Yesterday I opened up a hive. There were lots of bees busily working, tons of honey, but no brood, no eggs. I found the remains of several supersedure cells but absolutely no brood...nada, zip, zero. The hive did't act like it had lost its queen though, it was active, not really agressive, didn't have that listless feel to it. On the odds that it was in fact without a queen, I rebuilt the hive as follows: (from the ground up) Old brood chamber 1, Old brood chamber 2, double screen board (aka Snellgrove board) with opening to back of hive, new brood chamber with 3 week old swarm and strong queen, queen excluder, newspaper, honey supers with most of the old bees shaken out. My thoughts were to wait a week and see if the lower hive had a new queen that just hadn't started laying yet before I combined the two hives. All this leads to three questions: 1. What are the odds that a hive totally bereft of brood has a successful supersedure queen that just hasn't started laying yet? And, how long should I give her to show signs of laying. 2. If the old colony is in fact queenless (as I suspect), will the strong queen above the screenboard give off enough queen substance to suppress any laying workers (which I don't have now) until I unite the hives. 3. Am I overthinking this and should I just combine the two without all this fiddling around. Thanks for any input in this matter Patrick M. O Hearn, Aztec, New Mexico ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 22 May 1995 22:07:00 PDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: bill fernihough Subject: Re: Queenright? Patrick M. O Hearn, Aztec, New Mexico. Patrick, I would have left the hive for week then looked again. Chances are you had a virgin queen or at least one not too old, if you had supercedure cells. Are you sure you had supercedure cells and not swarm cells? If a week later you still had no brood, then I would have introduced a new queen or at least some eggs and let them make a new queen, or else go to another hive that has swarm cells, cut out one very carefully, and just lay it on top of the bars where it wouldn't be crushed, and then they will have a new queen very quickly. You could have done this at any rate, the worst that would have happened is that the new queen cell would have been killed. bill fernihough HONEY i s sweeter then wine. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 23 May 1995 11:14:07 +0100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jean-Marie Van Dyck Subject: '93 microwax bee-l chit-chat Hi bee-liners ! The microcristalline wax dipping have had a subject of discussion about April-May 1993. I put all the mails in a file (about 360 lines, 17 kBytes). I could send this file to whom would be interested by . Regards Jean-Marie Van Dyck Jean-Marie Van Dyck PS Please ! Don't send your request at the bee-l address ! Don't USE "REPLY"! Send your request at me ! Thanks for the other list users ! ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 23 May 1995 08:30:21 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Kelley Rosenlund Subject: Yellow Jackets Comments: To: Discussion of Bee Biology I have been getting calls from folks the past two weeks to get hives out of their garage, walls etc. It has been very educational and I have 3 new hives with possibly two more in the works! One of these days I am going to get a call to remove yellow jackets. 1. Does the 1-2cups soap per gallon of water work on yellow jackets as well as it does bees? 2. What pesticides can I use that will drop them on the spot? I have used the aerosol sprays but they are rather expensive. I would like to find something I can use in my hand pump sprayer or perhaps hose end sprayer. Thanks. Kelley Rosenlund rosenlk@freenet.ufl.edu In the metropolis of Gainesville, Florida. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 23 May 1995 14:27:48 +0100 Reply-To: fmonaci@mailserver.idg.fi.cnr.it Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: fabio monaci Subject: swarms It seems to be a very swarmy (does this word exist in Englsh?) spring this year in Italy, some beekepers think they wiil made more bees than honey at the end of the season. Does happen the same thing in Europe? and in the world over? Fabio Monaci C.N.R. Centro studio Genesi Classificazione Cartografia del Suolo P.zle delle Cascine 15 I-50144 Firenze Tel. ++ 39 (0)55 360517 Telefax ++ 39 (0)55 321148 E-MAIL fmonaci@csgccs.fi.cnr.it ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 23 May 1995 09:15:41 PDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Adrian Wenner Subject: Re: Yellow Jackets Comments: To: Discussion of Bee Biology Kelley Rosenlund wrote: > One of these days I am going to get a call to remove >yellow jackets. > >1. Does the 1-2cups soap per gallon of water work on yellow jackets as well >as it does bees? It actually works better! Yellow jackets do not have the protective layer of hairs on their bodies. Kitchen detergent is fine -- I use a tablespoonful for each hand held spray bottle. When a wasp alights, one can set the bottle on "stream" and fire several volleys quickly at the wasp. >2. What pesticides can I use that will drop them on the spot? If aim is accurate, the wasp drops to the ground immediately and dies shortly thereafter. In a separate communication, I am sending Kelley my extensive write-up on yellow jacket control. Other interested parties can request the same, but please do so directly and not on the network. p.s. I will be absent for about 5 weeks, beginning 13 June. Adrian *************************************************************** * Adrian Wenner E-Mail wenner@lifesci.lscf.ucsb.edu * * Department of Biology Office Phone (805) 893-2838 * * University of California Lab Phone (805) 893-2838 * * Santa Barbara, CA 93106 FAX (805) 893-4724 * *************************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 23 May 1995 09:23:11 PDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Adrian Wenner Subject: Re: Queenright? Comments: To: Discussion of Bee Biology Patrick M. O'Hearn wrote, in response to several earlier messages: > Yesterday I opened up a hive. There were lots of bees busily working, >tons of honey, but no brood, no eggs. I found the remains of several >supersedure cells but absolutely no brood...nada, zip, zero. The hive >did't act >like it had lost its queen though, it was active, not really agressive, didn't >have that listless feel to it. In my seven years of working with honey bee colonies on Santa Cruz Island (isolated from other bees for more than 120 years), I have yet to find a queenless colony that had become a laying worker colony. Instead, the colony has continued to gather nectar at the same time that the number of workers has declined. Just before complete demise, I have found colonies with nothing but sealed honey and almost no bees. Neither have they exhibited the usual behavioral signs of queenlessness. Adrian *************************************************************** * Adrian Wenner E-Mail wenner@lifesci.lscf.ucsb.edu * * Department of Biology Office Phone (805) 893-2838 * * University of California Lab Phone (805) 893-2838 * * Santa Barbara, CA 93106 FAX (805) 893-4724 * *************************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 23 May 1995 16:16:30 +0100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Malcolm Roe Subject: Re: swarms In-Reply-To: <52070.fmonaci@csgccs.fi.cnr.it> from "fabio monaci" at May 23, 95 02:27:48 pm Fabio Monaci asked: > It seems to be a very swarmy (does this word exist in Englsh?) spring this > year in Italy, some beekepers think they wiil made more bees than honey at > the end of the season. Does happen the same thing in Europe? and in the > world over? In my area (SE England) swarming started in early May, at least a week earlier than normal. I wouldn't like to say there's been more but it's certainly been earlier. We had some unusually hot weather just before it started. BTW, you may remember my problems with bees in chimneys a few weeks ago, including a swarm in one of the chimneys of my own house which I had to kill. Well, yesterday another swarm arrived! In the same chimney. (I'd intended to put some mesh over the chimneys but thought I could leave it until later in the summer when it would have been more convenient.) -- Malcolm Roe Phone : +44 1442 345104 Crosfield Electronics Ltd Fax : +44 1442 343000 Hemel Hempstead, Herts. HP2 7RH, UK E-mail : roe@crosfield.co.uk ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 23 May 1995 19:33:52 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Chris Ivey Subject: bee tags Greetings, Does anyone know if those glue-on numbered tags for labeling individual bees are still available from Opalith-Plattchen in Germany? Do they have an email address? Any idea of the current price? Or, if you are of aware of a similar product, I would very much appreciate knowing about it. Many thanks in advance, Chris Ivey Dept. of Botany Univ. of Georgia Athens, GA 30602 ivey@dogwood.botany.uga.edu ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 23 May 1995 19:31:50 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Bill Jackson Subject: Source of Queens in Egypt A co-worker has requested information on how a friend of his in Egypt can obtain replacement (6-legged) queens. Any suggestions from the good folks in BEE-Land? Thanks ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Bill Jackson | Internet: w.jackson@ieee.org 919-850-3044 | ax.25: nt4t@n1gmv.nc.usa.na ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 23 May 1995 23:18:45 +0100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Subject: GOOD TIMES! Just kidding! ;-) Good News! Aaron Morris came up with the missing logs for BEE-L. Therefore there are about 8+ megs of history available for you to read, search, or download. Old issues of Apis are posted to the list, so if you are looking for any they are there. Aim your brouser at http://www.internode.net:80/~allend and select the Bee-l logs link. You can also still get there from http://www.cuug.ab.ca:8001/~dicka Let me know if you encounter any problems, and also email me when you visit if you notice anything that needs attention or just to say hi. I'll keep this service going for a while, but I could get booted any time, so enjoy while you can. Allen ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 24 May 1995 01:43:22 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Edward Sterling Subject: Re: Queenright? Question from an amateur: I bought 2 packages in April, set each hive up using a single deep super. Checked them today and all is well....capped brood cells, developing larvae, eggs, etc. I had 5 old frames with comb for each hive, the other 5 frames are brand new with foundation only. The bees are slowly building out the foundation. When do you usually add the second deep super? It would seem like you would want to do that quite early to avoid a swarm. I would appreciate some guidelines on the timing and factors relating to adding the second brood chamber. Any point in continuing to feed them syrup? I made a large bucket of it and I am not sure if it will keep until Fall. Given that honeycomb build-out is a critical task for the hives at this point, is it helping them to provide close-by nourishment? Given that the blossom season is here, are they going to ignore the syrup and just go foraging instead? Thanks for replies, public or private! Ed ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ed Sterling, GPCC | ACTUAL quotes from my kids: "Daddy, hummingbirds Bolton, MA 01740 USA | help the bees put honey in the flowers!" "In the Phone/FAX: 508-779-6058 | daytime, the sun melts the moon into cloudpieces!" "ed@gpcc.ultranet.com" | "A snowman makes the quietest sounds in the world" ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Wish you had a favorite childhood toy from the 1950s/60s/70s back again? Barbie? GI Joe? Fanner 50? Girder and Panel? See http://www.ultranet.com/~ed ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 24 May 1995 13:06:56 +0200 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ivo Jakop Subject: Re: bee tags In-Reply-To: <199505232338.BAA27772@sparc.eunet.si> On Tue, 23 May 1995, Chris Ivey wrote: > Greetings, > > Does anyone know if those glue-on numbered tags for labeling individual > bees are still available from Opalith-Plattchen in Germany? Do they have > an email address? Any idea of the current price? > > Or, if you are of aware of a similar product, I would very much > appreciate knowing about it. > > Many thanks in advance, > > Chris Ivey > Dept. of Botany > Univ. of Georgia > Athens, GA 30602 > ivey@dogwood.botany.uga.edu > The german source of supply (one of many) is: Chr.Graze, Bienenzuchtgerate Staffelstrasse 5 D-71384 Weinstadt (Endersbach) Phone (07151)61147 Fax (0751)609239 For Germany the areacode is 0049 I dont think they have an E-mail address! Price for 100 pieces (numbered from 1 -99) is German marks 4,90 You can have the correct yearcolor for 1995 or any other if you specify! Ivo Jakop ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 24 May 1995 07:25:42 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Aaron Morris Subject: Environmentally Friendly Yellow Jacket Removal Comments: To: bee-l@ALBANY.BITNET A very benign, green, environmentally friendly and frugal way to get rid of yellow jackets is to use a canister style vacuum cleaner (like a shop vax or electrolux). Simply place the hose next to the nest entrance on a nice afternoon and leave it turned on for a couple of hours. As the yellow jackets come and go they get sucked into the vacuum. No mess, no pesticides, and it works! I learned this trick from a neighbor who paid an exterminator $50 to remove a nest of yellow jackets from their exterior walls. Of course you don't want to open the vacuum for a day or two. I assume the wasps die rather quickly with the dust and dirt in the vacuum, but I've never opened the vacuum to find out. I have used this method four times without a single problem and much to the amusement of passers by! I prefer to avoid pesticides whenever possible. Aaron Morris - I think yellow jackets suck! ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 24 May 1995 16:17:36 MET Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Christian Mauron Subject: who are we we are a couple of beekeepers from Charmey in the Gruyerecounty in Switzerland and we are very happy to hear something from beekeeper from all over the world 2. please set no mail for the next two weeks because we are on holidays See you perhaps at Apimondia beekeeper congres in Lausanne Switzerland Christian and Anny ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 24 May 1995 09:55:24 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Subject: Bee tags and hive tags In-Reply-To: <9505241407.AA26142@cuugnet.cuug.ab.ca> On Wed, 24 May 1995, Ivo Jakop wrote: > > On Tue, 23 May 1995, Chris Ivey wrote: > > > Greetings, > > > > Does anyone know if those glue-on numbered tags for labeling individual > > bees are still available from Opalith-Plattchen in Germany? Do they have I wonder does nayone have suggestions for numbering (easily) 1500 -2000 hives? I've considered bar code stickers, but I'm not quite advanced enough technically to use that yet. I need human readable, waterproof, non fading, multiple copy numbers from one to 2000+. A bar code for future use might be a nice touch too. Allen W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper VE6CFK Rural Route One Swalwell Alberta Canada T0M 1Y0 Email: dicka@cuug.ab.ca or allend@internode.net Futures, Art & Honey:http://www.cuug.ab.ca:8001/~dicka ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 24 May 1995 12:52:48 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Lucy Cronin Subject: clipping wings on queens A friend of mine has acquired some new Buckfast queens and would like to clip their wings to prevent swarming. Is this a good idea? How does one go about this? Thanks from both of us for all advice. Regards, Lucy email ldcronin@venus.cambrianc.on.ca ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 24 May 1995 10:36:00 PDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jane Beckman Subject: Re: clipping wings on queens I suspect that clipped wings is only a marginal guarantee against swarming: if the queen can still fly, even badly, she may leave. I say this because I obtained a swarm that had a queen with a clipped wing, and you will notice it didn't stop her from leaving, even though she was an imperfect flier. I suspect it would require a *radical* clipping job to prevent a swarmy queen from leaving, and there would be other considerations, such as the tendency of the workers to starve the queen in an attempt to get her to leave. Good hive management is a much better tool, in my opinion. Just a word to the wise. Jane B. [jane@swdc.stratus.com] ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 24 May 1995 13:34:00 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: CRONKLETON Subject: Re: Environmentally Friendly Yellow Jacket Removal Comments: To: BEE-L Is it really "environmentally friendly" or "frugal" to leave your vacuum running for a couple of hours? -Peter Cronkleton Univ. of Florida ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 24 May 1995 11:01:25 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Casey Burns Subject: Re: Environmentally Friendly Yellow Jacket Removal In-Reply-To: <199505241738.KAA18981@kendaco.telebyte.com> I think that leaving a shop vac on for awhile is a much better alternative to pesticides! Many years ago, a friend of mine had to remove a ground hornet nest. He tried all of the common pesticides, as well as pouring gasoline down the several exit holes, and setting it ablaze. Nothing much happened except the hornets getting angrier. Finally, he hooked up a 35 gallon shop vac to a 30' long piece of 3" pipe, covered all but 1 of the holes with fresh cement, and arranged the pipe so that it was within a few inches of the last exit. He also stuck a pound of rotenone in the shop vac. He left the vac on for 2 weeks! Imagine the sight of 35 gallons of dried and compressed hornets! That's what we saw when we finally looked inside, after listening with stethoscopes to make sure that they weren't alive inside. A pretty awsome site! Casey Burns ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 24 May 1995 11:25:00 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Kerry Clark 784-2225 fax (604) 784 2299" Subject: Re: clipping wings on queens As a swarm prevention strategy, clipping a queen's wing has problems. A slight clip may not prevent flying, and even if flying is prevented, the colony cam swarm within a day or two, with a virgin queen which emerges after the old queen's departure is frustrated. The beekeeper is then left with the remnants after the swarm has left, but with an old queen instead of a young one, hardly an advantage. For these reasons and because of the "disfigurement" of clipping, I had little good to say about clipping, until last year. I had about 80 colonies to monitor, to try to find differences including tracheal mite resistance, between 9 different lines of bees. After all the work of setting up colonies to control various variables, it was essential to know that a colony continued to have the known, marked queen of a specific line. Over the 2 years of the study, some queens were replaced, or failed, or the colonies died over winter. Others simply lost their marks (perhaps a difference in paint quality, application technique, or bee behavior (very hygenic bees tend to remove queen marks). By the time I noticed the marks dissappearing, there was not enough time to find all the queens and replenish the marks. It would have been valuable to have had the queens clipped, a permanent, though not unique, identifier of the test stocks. I did manage to clip a few, when I found them with a fragment of their mark still present, but I didn't get them all. It was annoying in the second year, to have several of the surviving colonies, having queens with no mark, and not being able to use them (or their information) because their pedigree could not be confirmed. This was especially true for "significant" colonies (potential breeders). In future for such cases, I will clip (about 1/4 off either left or right forewing, using good, small scissors). But not for swarm control. Kerry Clark, Apiculture Specialist B.C. Ministry of Agriculture 1201 103 Ave Dawson Creek B.C. V1G 4J2 CANADA Tel (604) 784-2225 fax (604) 784-2299 INTERNET KCLARK@GALAXY.GOV.BC.CA ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 24 May 1995 14:49:14 GMT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: MEMO 1995/05/24 15:10 From: John E III Taylor Subject: Re[2]: Environmentally Friendly Yellow Jacket Removal Casey Burns noted: > Many years ago, a friend of mine had to remove a ground hornet nest. He > tried all of the common pesticides, as well as pouring gasoline down the > several exit holes, and setting it ablaze. Nothing much happened except > the hornets getting angrier. My own experience has been that gasoline does a better job if you _don't_ set it ablaze. Left in liquid form, it vaporizes, and the vapors penetrate downward into the nest, doing a fair (but not great) job of killing yellow jackets (only thing I've tried it on). If you light the vapors, what doesn't immediately burn gets sucked upwards into the flame, and doesn't do its job down in the bowels of the nest. However, gasoline poured into the ground is environmentally unacceptable nowadays. The shop vac sounds like an interesting alternative (but _two weeks_?) John E. Taylor III W3ZID | "The opinions expressed are those of the E-Mail: mah48d@rohmhaas.com | writer and not of Rohm and Haas Company." ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 24 May 1995 15:40:32 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Robert Stephen Rodgers Subject: Re: Environmentally Friendly Yellow Jacket Removal In-Reply-To: <199505241819.OAA15829@pg2-srv.wam.umd.edu> > I think that leaving a shop vac on for awhile is a much better > alternative to pesticides! Any specific reason, or just a bias against pesticides? Note that pesticides are really a problem when used incompetently -- i.e., in attempts to *eradicate* pests instead of keep them at an acceptable level. > Many years ago, a friend of mine had to remove a ground hornet nest. He > tried all of the common pesticides, as well as pouring gasoline down the > several exit holes, and setting it ablaze. Nothing much happened except > the hornets getting angrier. > > Finally, he hooked up a 35 gallon shop vac to a 30' long piece of 3" > pipe, covered all but 1 of the holes with fresh cement, and arranged the > pipe so that it was within a few inches of the last exit. He also stuck a > pound of rotenone in the shop vac. He left the vac on for 2 weeks! Couldn't you get the same effect by placing a 10 gallon clear water bottle or tank over the remaining exit? In the hot sun? Alternately, pouring a dozen or two gallons of boiling water over the nest can do the job nicely. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 24 May 1995 16:18:00 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Eileen Gregory Subject: Re: Re[2]: Environmentally Friendly Yellow Jacket Removal For what it's worth....I managed to rid my yard of a nest of yellow jackets in an environmentally friendly way. I waited until dark, after the ground bees had gone into their nest for the night, and then just covered the hole with a clear glass bowl, making sure that there were no gaps around the edges. For a few days I could see bees inside the bowl trying to escape, then eventually, no more activity. Not very humane, but it was effective, at least it was in this case! Eileen Gregory ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 24 May 1995 18:29:21 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Patrick M O'Hearn <73203.610@COMPUSERVE.COM> Subject: Pollination Hello All, I would like to call to everyone s attention a short article in the May 23 Wall Street Journal (page B1) The headline is The Buzz on California s Weather:So Bad Even the Bees Have Been Idle Some of the quotes of interest are The rain, wind and cold pounded budding crops in the states prime growing areas. But even more hurtful, say agricultural experts, were the storms impact on the states 500,000 commercial beehives. ... Some 50 California crops, from almonds to pumpkins, rely on bees....No bees-no fruits and nuts, says Mr. Mussen (Eric Mussen, UC Davis). Now, we get to the good part..... according to Blue Diamond Growers..., the state produced about 730 million pounds of the nuts (almonds), which sold wholesale at $1.70 a pound. This year, William Wright, Blue Diamond s director of North American sales, predicts the crop will drop to 430 million pounds and the wholesale price will shoot up to $2.50 a pound. ... Same with Californias cherry production, which will drop to about 550,000 boxes from 3.8 million boxes last year. The bees would have done their work if the weather cooperated, says James Culbertson, manager of the California Cherry Advisory Board. Well, I did the math on the California Almond crop alone. In 1994 USING THE ABOVE FIGURES the crop was worth 1.241 billion dollars wholesale. This year will be 166 million dollars less. Fewer almonds, much higher prices to consumers. This is a good concrete example of the value of pollination to the US economy and I intend furnish the article to my senators and congressmen so that they will hopefully keep it in the back of their (tiny) minds when considering funding, or lack thereof, for our Bee Labs. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 24 May 1995 22:00:59 +1030 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jean-Pierre Chapleau Subject: ** VIRUS ** on Bee-L Please everybody watch for a computer virus travelling on the internet trough the e-mail system. If you find a message with GOOD TIMES! as the subject DO NOT READ IT. I was told by my acces provider that it was hiding a virus that activates itself when you read the message. Destroy such a message without reading it. This virus automatically disseminates itself to all the persons in your addressbook and does some very nasty things to your hard disk and processor. I just received such a message from Allen Dick and destroyed it. Poor Allen!! _______________________________ ~ |_____JEAN-PIERRE CHAPLEAU______| ~ bee breeder |1282, rang 8, Saint-Adrien,| ~ | Quebec, Canada, J0A 1C0 | vice president of the Canadian Honey Council | phone: (819) 828-3396 | ~ ~ | fax: (819) 828-0357 | ~ ~ | chapleau@scuzzy.fmmo.ca | ~ ~ |______________________________~ ~ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 24 May 1995 21:31:42 CDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Phil Mueller Subject: Re: ** VIRUS ** on Bee-L (a hoax) In-Reply-To: <199505250205.VAA26919@mailhost.tcs.tulane.edu>; from "Jean-Pierre Chapleau" at May 24, 95 10:00 pm The "good times" virus is fast assuming the status of an urban legend. It is a hoax that pops up on various lists every few months. Regards, Phil -- Phil Mueller Home: hi23ahg@mailhost.tcs.tulane.edu 325 Burdette Tulane Graduate School New Orleans, LA 70118 Xavier Univ. of LA History Dept. (504) 866-1913 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 24 May 1995 23:03:31 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Mark Gaddy Subject: Pollen collection I have been reading with interest for about 2 months now, and every time I was about to post someone would say just what I wanted to hear. Anyway on to my question, I have been interested in taking bee pollen and was wondering what the best way to harvest was? I read somewhere( I think here) that the pollen once stored, was better for you than pollen caught in a pollen trap( something to do with the nectar fermenting the grains and thereby cracking or breaking the grains so that our digestive system could use it.) So far I have been taking some from an old brood frame( yes with all the old brood casts and waste products, I figure more protien, but the pollen probably has enough protien) I keep it in the freezer, but it still isn't easy to harvest. Any Ideas would be appreciated. Thanks, Mark ps. I have 10 hives located deep in the heart of Texas, in Pflugerville,near Austin. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 24 May 1995 21:47:07 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ann Dougherty Subject: Light Response In-Reply-To: <9505250305.AA21903@mx4.u.washington.edu> Has anyone heard of any studies about light effecting bees? They spend all that time in the dark hive doing their thing and someone comes along and opens it up. Do they react to light in the hive? It appears that they hardly notice it. My Husband swears that they act differntly when exposed to light. Especially in our observation hive. Any ideas? Ann ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 25 May 1995 01:38:42 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Daniel J. Salemson" Subject: Calming a nervous property owner Hi all, My solitary hive is being evicted from its current location within the next few weeks. A friend with a large backyard may be willing to allow me to move the hive to a corner of her property, but she would like to have something more than my verbal assurances that my bees won't bother her, chase her in a swarm across the backyard or try to come inside. Does anyone know of some good, easily accessible literature that I could pass along to allay her concerns? Thanks, Dan Salemson ======================================================= |Daniel J. Salemson (919) 821-7921 voice | |214 Ashe Ave., #301 (919) 821-2465 fax | |Raleigh, NC 27605 | ======================================================= ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 25 May 1995 01:51:15 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Daniel J. Salemson" Subject: Re: clipping wings on queens I second Jane Beckman's post that clipping the wings of the Queen will do little to prevent swarming. I seem to recall reading that the workers, not the Queen, determin when to swarm. They will force the Queen out of the hive, often against her will. Without wings, she will simply fall to the ground and die of starvation in most cases. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 25 May 1995 00:06:57 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ray Maxwell Subject: ** VIRUS ** on Bee-L -Reply The Good Times virus is a fraud. There is no possible way that a virus can activate your hard drive from an email message. The person who originated this message has probably caused more industry down time than a real virus would have caused!!!! The joke is on us on this one. P.S. I not only work with Bee;s but I work every day with computers and programs. It hit Novell Inc. about two weeks ago and took us all of about 20 minutes to figure out it was a fraud. Ray Maxwell ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 25 May 1995 03:12:13 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Mike High Subject: Re: Queenright? Put supers on when bees have drawn all but 1 or2 frames.Watch for swarm(queen) cells to prevent swarming.save syrup for fall or winter feeding. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 25 May 1995 17:49:07 CST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Falconer Henry Subject: Re: Environmentally Friendly Yellow Jacket Removal In-Reply-To: from "Aaron Morris" at May 24, 95 7:25 am If you use a vacuum cleaner to remove wasps or bees (recent suggestion) don't in any circumstances leave them in the bag for more than a week as I once did. Next time we used the vacuum, the damp bodies of the insects had rotted the bag, bits and pieces were blown out all over the place and the smell was indescribable. I had to soak the hose of the vacuum in disinfectant for several days to get rid of the smell. Falconer Henry rfh@pacific.ntf.flinders.edu.au -- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 25 May 1995 11:17:36 CST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Vladimir Ptacek Subject: Re: Formic Acide & Varroa Friends, In my message dated Fri, 19 May 95 10:33:56 CST with subject "Re: Formic Acid & varroa" I made a mistake in my E.mail address. The correct address is ptacek@sci.muni.cz Best regards, Vladimir Ptacek ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 25 May 1995 07:21:49 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Dave D. Cawley, a De Leon Socialist" Subject: Re: ** VIRUS ** on Bee-L > From: Jean-Pierre Chapleau > Please everybody watch for a computer virus travelling on the internet > trough the e-mail system. If you find a message with GOOD TIMES! as the > subject DO NOT READ IT. I was told by my acces provider that it was > hiding a virus that activates itself when you read the message. Destroy > such a message without reading it. This virus automatically disseminates > itself to all the persons in your addressbook and does some very nasty > things to your hard disk and processor. Your access provider is an idiot then...think about it, what's to stop me from changing the subject heading from "Good Times" to "Free Bee Supplies"? Or is the whole virus program dependant on the subject heading to trigger the virus in an ASCII file? And how can you execute and ASCII file anyway? 8-} ******************************************************************************** Dave D. Cawley | Only the economic organization is capable of setting University of Scranton | on foot a true political party of labor, and thus Scranton, Pennsylvania | raise a bulwork against the power of capital. ddc1@jaguar.uofs.edu | -Karl Marx ******************************************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 25 May 1995 07:35:00 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "MacFawn, Dave" Subject: Re: Calming a nervous property owner Comments: To: BEE-L Call DR John Ambrose over at NC State 919-515-3140 or Grace Haven his secretary at the same number and get them to send you any Bee Notes that Ambrose's office did on urban beehives. You also may want to contact Brushy Mountain Bee Farm 1-800-BEESWAX and order a copy of the Texas Urban Ordnance for Beehives. ---------- >From: BEE-L >To: Multiple recipients of list BEE-L >Subject: Calming a nervous property owner >Date: Thursday, May 25, 1995 1:38AM > >Return-Path: > >Received: from ncrcae.ColumbiaSC.NCR.COM by msgate.ColumbiaSC.ATTGIS.COM id > <2FC3E692@msgate.ColumbiaSC.ATTGIS.COM>; Thu, 25 May 95 02:08:18 edt >Received: by ncrcae.ColumbiaSC.NCR.COM; 25 May 95 02:04:11 EDT >Received: by ncrhub4.ATTGIS.COM; 25 May 95 02:05:08 EDT >Received: by ncrgw1.ATTGIS.COM; 25 May 95 01:55:23 EDT >Received: from CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU by UACSC2.ALBANY.EDU (IBM VM SMTP V2R2) with > BSMTP id 6188; Thu, 25 May 95 01:38:10 EDT >Received: from UACSC2.ALBANY.EDU (NJE origin LISTSERV@ALBNYVM1) by > CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU (LMail V1.2a/1.8a) with BSMTP id 0350; Thu, 25 May 1995 > 01:38:09 -0400 >Date: Thu, 25 May 1995 01:38:42 EDT >Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology >Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology >From: "Daniel J. Salemson" >Subject: Calming a nervous property owner >To: Multiple recipients of list BEE-L >--------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- >Hi all, > >My solitary hive is being evicted from its current location within the next >few weeks. A friend with a large backyard may be willing to allow me to >move the hive to a corner of her property, but she would like to have >something more than my verbal assurances that my bees won't bother her, >chase her in a swarm across the backyard or try to come inside. Does >anyone know of some good, easily accessible literature that I could pass >along to allay her concerns? > >Thanks, > >Dan Salemson > > >======================================================= >|Daniel J. Salemson (919) 821-7921 voice | >|214 Ashe Ave., #301 (919) 821-2465 fax | >|Raleigh, NC 27605 | >======================================================= > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 25 May 1995 05:47:24 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Subject: Apology Comments: To: Jean-Pierre Chapleau In-Reply-To: <9505250205.AA16146@cuugnet.cuug.ab.ca> > Please everybody watch for a computer virus travelling on the internet > trough the e-mail system. If you find a message with GOOD TIMES! as the > subject DO NOT READ IT. I was told by my acces provider that it was Sorry everyone, I thought that everyone knew that the GOOD TIMES thing was a *big* joke by now. To anyone who does programming it is obvious -- but I am sure to those who don't it could be terrifying. Anyhow, the message headed 'GOOD TIMES' was in fact only dangerous in the sense that it explained how to find the BEE-L logs on the Web and read them in their entirety, now that we have the full set going back to 1989. This could lead to entire evenings and weekends being lost while you brouse the full eight megs of info and chatter. I hope I didn't cause anyone to spray his/her hard drive with Lysol. Allen W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper VE6CFK Rural Route One Swalwell Alberta Canada T0M 1Y0 Email: dicka@cuug.ab.ca or allend@internode.net Futures, Art & Honey:http://www.cuug.ab.ca:8001/~dicka ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 25 May 1995 08:03:53 +22300129 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Adam Finkelstein Subject: Summary: Mating problems, nuc design. Hello, Thank you all sincerely for responding to my mating nuc questions. I'm happy to say that so far, after your input, my mating rate has gone up from ~33% to around 90%! The boxes I use have entrances facing different ways. I added canvas to separate the compartments and painted geometric shapes around the entrances varying the pattern and color. Summary: From: Allen Dick > I'm mating queens. I use single nuc boxes and boxes divided in two. The matings I get in the single boxes are about 80%, but the divided boxes are about 33%. Odd. We use standards divided into three with 90% or so success. The entrances are on opposite sides and the outsides are painted different colours as if three three frame nucs were taped together, each painted a different colour. We also have standards (all white) with 5 or is it six separate compartments with holes on different sides. They are very successful. > I'm using masonite to divide the boxes, and there is a large "buffer area" between the two masonite dividers (a medium divided into three compartments with the nucs on the outside compartments.) There are small gaps between the masonite and the hive rabbet. Very small. Also, I use flat cypress tops that often do not stay flat (they warp a little). Shouldn't matter. Some use a sheet of black plastic as an 'inner cover' It tends to settle and seal well on top. I wonder if you have enough bees in the nucs? (open) Brood to hold the bees? How are they separated in the yard? Random organisation with some junk for orientation helps. > Is the virgin or queen crossing over into the other nuc via the uneven > top or through the gaps from the masonite? (line deleted...sorry ...was the virgin crossing over via the underside of the top.) I doubt > Also, the entrance holes I have are very small, 5/8" or about 1 cm. > These are almost tunnel like. Should they be bigger, and deeper or does > this not matter. Shouldn't matter. Is the material repellant somehow? Are your success comparisons at the same time and place? Total failures of good mating systems sometimes occur. > I want to use the divided nucs since if they work, I'll be getting twice as many queens mated in the same space. We use them all the time. From: ibra Andrew Matheson, It's been a while since I did much queen rearing, but I thought I'd comment from what I do know. >There are small > gaps between the masonite and the hive rabbet. Very small. Also, I use flat > cypress tops that often do not stay flat (they warp a little). > Is the virgin or queen crossing over into the other nuc via the uneven > top or through the gaps from the masonite? Quite likely, though I think it doesn't matter even if the virgins aren't getting through. If there is worker-worker contact, then you know what's happening to queen pheromones. Your queenless nucs with emerging cells aren't actually queenless, at least to the workers. Keeping the separations absolutely bee-tight is important. > Also, the entrance holes I have are very small, 5/8" or about 1 cm. > These are almost tunnel like. Should they be bigger, and deeper or does > this not matter. My own feeling is that this doesn't matter. From: andy.nachbaur@beenet.com (Andy Nachbaur) You will alway's have trouble with 2 virgins in one box, but you can limit it somewhat by the addition of a inner cover made of dill, canvas, sail cloth, or denim. Burlap also works but is harder to cut, but really is nice smoker fuel after a year or two. I like burlap, but have used other materials in my two way nuc's made from 3/4 depth supers with a plywood divider. These can be used as supers or put together to make big hives that can be wintered. The canvas or burlap sack keep's the bee's or queen's apart, makes it possible to work one side at a time, by laying the cloth over. I stapled mine down the middle to the divider board. It also can hang over the sides a little, seems to help the mated queen's find their way back to the right hole and may limit robbing. The way my neighbor is running the 2 way's now is to catch a round or two of queens, then he just make a single queen catch being sure all have one queen per two way and puts on a full depth super for early divides next spring when he makes them up again. For getting lot's of queens nothing beats baby nuc's for cost per queen vis labor and materials needed, but not everyone want's a bunch of little boxes stored up most of the year. I used a bore or fight hole for my 2 way's and did not have a lower entrance at all. I also paint all my equipment different colors on all sides so they would also help, and I had wooden closer's for the flight hole that were panted a dark color, black, blue, red and so on which also seemed to help, but even then don't remember getting many 100% days. 80% is good, 95 better, but all is dependent on the winds and weather and some luck. ttul Andy- From: "Marla Spivak" Adam, are the entrances facing in opposite directions in your divided boxes? It should help. It will also help the queens orient back to the boxes if you put different color designs around the entrance holes (e.g., blue circle, yellow 'x', orange stripes, green triangle, etc.) The queens can find the location of a single nuc, but it sounds like they are flying into the wrong divided box and probably getting killed. - Marla From: "John Gates 604 260-3015 (fax 549-5488)" A number of years ago when running a bee breeding project here in British Columbia Canada we experimented with a number of mating nuc designs. Over the long term single nucs yielded more mated queens than doubles, triples less still and quads the worst. If you wish to rear a small number of queens and maximize your return per nuc, stick with singles. Large operators must factor in the efficiencies of using less boxes in closer quarters and often opt for a smaller queen return for less cost. Nuc orientation is very important in increasing mating success. Give your bees lots of orientation cues by facing entrances in different directions, using a variety of colours and patterns at the entrances, setting the nucs near natural features such as trees, boulders, bushes etc and possibly more important, keep them sheltered from the wind. An open windy location will cause a lot of drift, resulting in poor acceptance of returning queens. Sometimes you will get about comparable results from the different nucs, but over the long term, in our experience singles will be better. In multi-compartment nucs bees must not be able to cross from one compartment to another or your success will be drastically reduced. To avoid problems with warped wood, staple plastic or canvass to the top of the divider between compartments. The material should be cut large enough to cover the tops of both compartments, acting as an inner cover, securely sealing one nuc from the other. In the early 80's we were mating queens in high altitude isolated yards in the mountains while testing the Page/Laidlaw closed population mating system. The first season we ran out of time to construct a large electically fenced yard for bear protection so had to use the small established yard we had for 20 hives. We crammed 25 full-size hives and 100 nucs into that yard sitting the nucs on top of colonies and on the ground in all the available space. By using techniques to minimize drift we obtained 100 % success for one round. It just happened to be the round that Dr. laidlaw came to see. He was astonished at the success rate as were we. We didn't press our luck though and subsequently built larger yards. You didn't mention where your entrances were. To increase success with multi-compartment nucs put the entrances on different sides of the boxes. Mini nucs often have entrances of 3/8" to 1/2" in diameter for protection from robbing. If robbing is a factor during your mating period you will have to do something. You may need to build robber screens especially for larger openings. If you need more ventilation when mating queens during hot weather you can drill 1" or larger holes in the rear of each compartment and cover them with screen. I overwinter my nucs on top of large colonies and use the ventilation holes (which are drilled near the top of the boxes) for winter entrances. Good luck, John Gates From: "BLANE WHITE" Adam, You maight want to try a cloth "inner" cover under the cover as this should prevent bees from crossing over from one nuc to the other. You may need seperate inner covers for each nuc stapled to the inner side of the buffer space. good luck I know that others use divided hive bodies for nucs and don't have a problem...but they don't admit a low success rate. Blane From: "Kerry Clark 784-2225 fax (604) 784 2299" Hi Adam I've seen nucs such as the one you describe, work fine for mating queens. Even using all 3 chambers has worked, although the consequences of a queen returning from a flight to a neighbouring nuc are much worse than a bit of interchange of workers. Do you have the entrances on different sides of the nuc? That would be important. Different landmarks or colors at the entrances would also help. Inside, if there is interchange of bees between the nucs, or perhaps even if the air is shared between nucs, there could be increased rejection of any queens after the first one starts to lay. One neat trick to seal the nucs is to staple a flexible sheet (plastic or cloth) that covers both nucs, along the divider, so the separation is more complete. During inspection, only one unit is open at a time, so bee exchange is minimized. good luck -- ______________________________________ Adam Finkelstein adamf@vtaix.cc.vt.edu ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 25 May 1995 09:15:43 -0300 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: UNESP Subject: Re: Summary: Mating problems, nuc design. In-Reply-To: <07031B2180001123@fpsp.fapesp.br> SIGNOFF BEE-L On Thu, 25 May 1995, Adam Finkelstein wrote: > Hello, > > Thank you all sincerely for responding to my mating nuc questions. I'm happy > to say that so far, after your input, my mating rate has gone up from ~33% > to around 90%! > > The boxes I use have entrances facing different ways. I added canvas to > separate the compartments and painted geometric shapes around the > entrances varying the pattern and color. > > > > > Summary: > > > From: Allen Dick > > > I'm mating queens. I use single nuc boxes and boxes divided in two. > The matings I get in the single boxes are about 80%, but the divided > boxes are about 33%. > > Odd. We use standards divided into three with 90% or so success. The > entrances are on opposite sides and the outsides are painted different > colours as if three three frame nucs were taped together, each painted a > different colour. We also have standards (all white) with 5 or is it six > separate compartments with holes on different sides. They are very > successful. > > > I'm using masonite to divide the boxes, and there is a large "buffer > area" between the two masonite dividers (a medium divided into three > compartments with the nucs on the outside compartments.) There are small > gaps between the masonite and the hive rabbet. Very small. Also, I use > flat cypress tops that often do not stay flat (they warp a little). > > Shouldn't matter. Some use a sheet of black plastic as an 'inner cover' > It tends to settle and seal well on top. > > I wonder if you have enough bees in the nucs? (open) Brood to hold the > bees? > > How are they separated in the yard? Random organisation with some junk > for orientation helps. > > > Is the virgin or queen crossing over into the other nuc via the > uneven > top or through the gaps from the masonite? > (line deleted...sorry ...was the virgin crossing over via the underside of > the top.) > I doubt > > > > Also, the entrance holes I have are very small, 5/8" or about 1 cm. > > These are almost tunnel like. Should they be bigger, and deeper or does > > this not matter. > > Shouldn't matter. > > Is the material repellant somehow? Are your success comparisons at the > same time and place? Total failures of good mating systems sometimes > occur. > > > I want to use the divided nucs since if they work, I'll be getting twice > as many queens mated in the same space. > > We use them all the time. > > > > > From: ibra Andrew Matheson, > > It's been a while since I did much queen rearing, but I thought I'd > comment from what I do know. > > >There are small > gaps between the masonite and the hive rabbet. Very > small. Also, I use flat > cypress tops that often do not stay flat (they > warp a little). > Is the virgin or queen crossing over into the other > nuc via the uneven > top or through the gaps from the masonite? > > Quite likely, though I think it doesn't matter even if the virgins aren't > getting through. If there is worker-worker contact, then you know what's > happening to queen pheromones. Your queenless nucs with emerging cells > aren't actually queenless, at least to the workers. Keeping the > separations absolutely bee-tight is important. > > > Also, the entrance holes I have are very small, 5/8" or about 1 cm. > > These are almost tunnel like. Should they be bigger, and deeper or does > > this not matter. > > My own feeling is that this doesn't matter. > > > > > From: andy.nachbaur@beenet.com (Andy Nachbaur) > > You will alway's have trouble with 2 virgins in one box, but you can limit > it somewhat by the addition of a inner cover made of dill, canvas, sail > cloth, or denim. Burlap also works but is harder to cut, but really is > nice smoker fuel after a year or two. I like burlap, but have used other > materials in my two way nuc's made from 3/4 depth supers with a plywood > divider. These can be used as supers or put together to make big hives > that can be wintered. > > The canvas or burlap sack keep's the bee's or queen's apart, makes it > possible to work one side at a time, by laying the cloth over. I stapled > mine down the middle to the divider board. It also can hang over the sides > a little, seems to help the mated queen's find their way back to the right > hole and may limit robbing. > > The way my neighbor is running the 2 way's now is to catch a round or > two of queens, then he just make a single queen catch being sure all have > one queen per two way and puts on a full depth super for early divides > next spring when he makes them up again. > > For getting lot's of queens nothing beats baby nuc's for cost per queen > vis labor and materials needed, but not everyone want's a bunch of little > boxes stored up most of the year. > > I used a bore or fight hole for my 2 way's and did not have a lower > entrance at all. I also paint all my equipment different colors on all > sides so they would also help, and I had wooden closer's for the flight > hole that were panted a dark color, black, blue, red and so on which also > seemed to help, but even then don't remember getting many 100% days. 80% > is good, 95 better, but all is dependent on the winds and weather and some > luck. > ttul Andy- > > > > From: "Marla Spivak" > > Adam, are the entrances facing in opposite directions in your divided > boxes? It should help. It will also help the queens orient back to the > boxes if you put different color designs around the entrance holes (e.g., > blue circle, yellow 'x', orange stripes, green triangle, etc.) The queens > can find the location of a single nuc, but it sounds like they are flying > into the wrong divided box and probably getting killed. - Marla > > > > > From: "John Gates 604 260-3015 (fax 549-5488)" > > A number of years ago when running a bee breeding project here in British > Columbia Canada we experimented with a number of mating nuc designs. Over > the long term single nucs yielded more mated queens than doubles, triples > less still and quads the worst. If you wish to rear a small number of > queens and maximize your return per nuc, stick with singles. Large > operators must factor in the efficiencies of using less boxes in closer > quarters and often opt for a smaller queen return for less cost. > > Nuc orientation is very important in increasing mating success. Give your > bees lots of orientation cues by facing entrances in different directions, > using a variety of colours and patterns at the entrances, setting the nucs > near natural features such as trees, boulders, bushes etc and possibly > more important, keep them sheltered from the wind. An open windy location > will cause a lot of drift, resulting in poor acceptance of returning > queens. Sometimes you will get about comparable results from the different > nucs, but over the long term, in our experience singles will be better. > > In multi-compartment nucs bees must not be able to cross from one > compartment to another or your success will be drastically reduced. To > avoid problems with warped wood, staple plastic or canvass to the top of > the divider between compartments. The material should be cut large enough > to cover the tops of both compartments, acting as an inner cover, securely > sealing one nuc from the other. > > In the early 80's we were mating queens in high altitude isolated yards in > the mountains while testing the Page/Laidlaw closed population mating > system. The first season we ran out of time to construct a large > electically fenced yard for bear protection so had to use the small > established yard we had for 20 hives. We crammed 25 full-size hives and > 100 nucs into that yard sitting the nucs on top of colonies and on the > ground in all the available space. By using techniques to minimize drift > we obtained 100 % success for one round. It just happened to be the round > that Dr. laidlaw came to see. He was astonished at the success rate as > were we. We didn't press our luck though and subsequently built larger > yards. > > You didn't mention where your entrances were. To increase success with > multi-compartment nucs put the entrances on different sides of the boxes. > Mini nucs often have entrances of 3/8" to 1/2" in diameter for protection > from robbing. If robbing is a factor during your mating period you will > have to do something. You may need to build robber screens especially for > larger openings. If you need more ventilation when mating queens during > hot weather you can drill 1" or larger holes in the rear of each > compartment and cover them with screen. I overwinter my nucs on top of > large colonies and use the ventilation holes (which are drilled near the > top of the boxes) for winter entrances. > > Good luck, > > John Gates > > > > > > > From: "BLANE WHITE" > > Adam, You maight want to try a cloth "inner" cover under the cover as this > should prevent bees from crossing over from one nuc to the other. You may > need seperate inner covers for each nuc stapled to the inner side of the > buffer space. good luck I know that others use divided hive bodies for > nucs and don't have a problem...but they don't admit a low success rate. > Blane > > > > > > From: "Kerry Clark 784-2225 fax (604) 784 2299" > > Hi Adam > > I've seen nucs such as the one you describe, work fine for mating > queens. Even using all 3 chambers has worked, although the consequences > of a queen returning from a flight to a neighbouring nuc are much worse > than a bit of interchange of workers. > > Do you have the entrances on different sides of the nuc? That would be > important. Different landmarks or colors at the entrances would also > help. > > Inside, if there is interchange of bees between the nucs, or perhaps > even if the air is shared between nucs, there could be increased > rejection of any queens after the first one starts to lay. One neat > trick to seal the nucs is to staple a flexible sheet (plastic or cloth) > that covers both nucs, along the divider, so the separation is more > complete. During inspection, only one unit is open at a time, so bee > exchange is minimized. good luck > -- > ______________________________________ > Adam Finkelstein > adamf@vtaix.cc.vt.edu > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 25 May 1995 09:27:07 AST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: NB*net - New Brunswick's Regional Network 1-800-561-4459 From: Beth Nixon Subject: Re: Bee tags and hive tags >I need human readable, waterproof, non fading, multiple copy numbers from >one to 2000+. A bar code for future use might be a nice touch too. > >Allen Here's an idea we've considered, but are not yet using.(Currently we just # with waterproof markers on the bottom chamber). Cow tags - you know the ones that hang on a chain around the cows neck, then hang them on a nail, or with a hive staple on the bottom chamber. I know you can get them as individual numbers, or a whole series of numbers, or even with letters (abcdefg...). Just an idea! Beth Nixon ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 25 May 1995 08:34:54 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ray Lackey Subject: yellow jackets removal The glass jar works well where there is only one entrance available. I use a cup of ammonia on ground nests and cover with a piece of plastic to hold the fumes. Not polluting like gasoline, it becomes fertilizer for the grass. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ + Raymond J. Lackey + + Beekeeper 10 years with 25 colonies on Long Island, NY+ + INTERNET: rjl7317@hazeltine.com + + Mail: 1260 Walnut Avenue, Bohemia NY 11617 + + Home Phone: 516-567-1936 FAX: 516-262-8053 + ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 25 May 1995 08:41:27 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Aaron Morris Subject: Frugal 'n Friendly, that's me!(Was Yellow Jacket Removal) Comments: To: bee-l@ALBANY.BITNET > From: CRONKLETON > Subject: Re: Environmentally Friendly Yellow Jacket Removal > > Is it really "environmentally friendly" or "frugal" to leave your > vacuum running for a couple of hours? -Peter Cronkleton > Univ. of Florida Weighed against the alternatives, I'll stick to my assertion that the vacuum treatment is environmentally friendly and frugal. On the occasions I have used this method I honestly can't say that I noticed an appreciable increase in my electric bill for that month, but for the sake of argument let's say it cost me $1 an hour to run the vacuum, times 3 hours. Hmmm ... still less than what I'd pay for a can of bug spray, or so I think - I don't buy bug spray. But since we're making up these figures, let's say the cost for electricity to run a vacuum equals the cost of a can of bug spray. I can walk to my closet to get the vacuum, but I must drive to the store to buy the bug spray, so even if the cost of electricity equals the cost of bug spray, add my gasoline and time costs and factor in the emissions from my truck, and the vacuum appears to me to be more friendly and frugal. Now, the alternatives mentioned so far have been pesticides, pouring boiling water down the hole, pouring gasoline down the hole and covering the hole with a clear salad bowl. Pesticides: Costly, not something I'd want to subject myself to, and their effect, although targeted towards the wasps, is not limited to the wasps alone. Boiling Water: Cheap, easy, but again, its effect is not limited to the wasps alone. I'd hate to be an earthworm or a plant or any other living critter around the nest. Gasoline: Need I even comment on that one? Of course it will kill the yellow jackets (and every other living thing around it), but our society has created entire governmental agencies to deal with hazardous spills, and gasoline is one of those hazardous substances. Clear bowl: Cheap if you happen to already have one. Minimal effect on non-targeted life forms, although it could burn the plants within it's enclosure, and it's slow. But it is a green, environmentally friendly and frugal alternative, and a method that I'll be comfortable using and recommending. In conclusion: I'm surprised to have my vacuum assertion challenged. 'Is it really "environmentally friendly" or "frugal" to leave your vacuum running for a couple of hours?' To accomplish the goal of removing yellow jackets in a benign manner with minimal detriment to my surroundings, YES Peter Cronkleton, it's really "environmentally friendly" and "frugal" to leave my vacuum running for a couple of hours. Aaron Morris ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 25 May 1995 09:09:47 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ray Lackey Subject: hive marking numbers It would be a lot easier if the hives were not exposed to weathering. If you have good paint jobs on your bodies t seal the wood, there are digit stickers on rolls, everywhere from 1/4 inch to one inch available from a number of places. Local hardware stores can often order them for you. Another source is animal tags made for cows and pigs. A local dairy man showed a catalog to me a few years ago. The tags wer available i bright plastic an metal. I got a catalog a few weeks back that I will try to find and send out the info. They had metal tags with sticker backing and rivet/nail holes at each end. If you really wanted to get fancy (and honey was selling for $5/pound) I could set you up with rf tags that could be embedded in your hive boxes and read from ten feet away. A computer with a database could geve you complete history for that bottom board, body, or colony. It would also be a good way fo proving stolen property, they can be completely hidden. (I am an electronic engineer and have been thinking of ways to automate record keeping if I decided to go beekeeping full time. Logic and poor return on investment prevent me. I have seen family lose money in farming and beekeeping before. Anyone need a condultant to computerize their beekeeping business?) ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ + Raymond J. Lackey + + Beekeeper 10 years with 25 colonies on Long Island, NY+ + INTERNET: rjl7317@hazeltine.com + + Mail: 1260 Walnut Avenue, Bohemia NY 11617 + + Home Phone: 516-567-1936 FAX: 516-262-8053 + ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 25 May 1995 11:16:19 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ed Kear Subject: Re: Frugal 'n Friendly, that's me!(Was Yellow Jacket Removal >> >> Is it really "environmentally friendly" or "frugal" to leave your >> vacuum running for a couple of hours? -Peter Cronkleton >> Univ. of Florida >Weighed against the alternatives, I'll stick to my assertion that the >vacuum treatment is environmentally friendly and frugal. On the >occasions I have used this method I honestly can't say that I noticed an >appreciable increase in my electric bill for that month, but for the >sake of argument let's say it cost me $1 an hour to run the vacuum, >times 3 hours. Hmmm ... still less than what I'd pay for a can of bug >spray, or so I think - I don't buy bug spray. Actually, Aaron, your cost is much less than this. Is Round Lake NYSE&G or NiMo territory? Either way, you're paying about $0.11/kWh. A Shop-Vac uses, what, 500 Watts? So it's costing you about 5-6 cents/hour. Leaving a Shop-Vac on for a couple of hours is no worse for the environment than watching TV for an evening, or leaving a couple of lights on overnight, or baking a pie in an electric oven, or using a electric decapping knife, or how about using an electric-motor driven extractor. Need I go on? I would worry more about the ware-and-tare on the vac. :) Ed Kear ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 25 May 1995 12:38:04 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Dan Oetting Subject: Re: ** VIRUS ** on Bee-L >> From: Jean-Pierre Chapleau >> Please everybody watch for a computer virus travelling on the internet >> trough the e-mail system. If you find a message with GOOD TIMES! as the >> subject DO NOT READ IT. I was told by my acces provider that it was >> hiding a virus that activates itself when you read the message. Destroy >> such a message without reading it. This virus automatically disseminates >> itself to all the persons in your addressbook and does some very nasty >> things to your hard disk and processor. > > Your access provider is an idiot then...think about it, what's to >stop me from changing the subject heading from "Good Times" to "Free Bee >Supplies"? Or is the whole virus program dependant on the subject heading >to trigger the virus in an ASCII file? And how can you execute and ASCII >file anyway? 8-} > It is (or was) possible to triger an action just by displaying an ASCII file! If you were using an ANSI (aka VT100) terminal AND your mail reader did not intercept escape sequences AND you were running a common shell or command interpreter... then a devious message could do just about anything it wanted. -- Dan O. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 25 May 1995 12:42:28 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Dan Oetting Subject: Re: Apology > >Sorry everyone, I thought that everyone knew that the GOOD TIMES thing >was a *big* joke by now. > >To anyone who does programming it is obvious -- but I am sure to those who >don't it could be terrifying. > It is (or was) possible to triger an action just by displaying an ASCII file! If you were using an ANSI (aka VT100) terminal AND your mail reader did not intercept escape sequences AND you were running a common shell or command interpreter... then a devious message could do just about anything it wanted. -- Dan Oetting. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 25 May 1995 17:08:05 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Carl Mueller Subject: Re: Light Response Ann Dougherty question bees reaction to light. I have screen boards instead of inner covers on all my hives. This allows me to provide ample ventilation here in HOT south Florida. I leave the hive tops tipped up on one end for air flow. I use the same technique with my nucs, however I close them a night and open them in the morning. I have not observed any adverse reaction by the bees when I open the covers. They just keep doing their thing. I have had some testy bees that would bang into the screening in an attempt to get at me, but that is an unusual case. I generally work my hives in sandels and shorts. Some times I wear a Tee shirt. Carl Mueller Email: cmueller@emi.net West Palm Beach, Florida USA ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 25 May 1995 14:24:17 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Casey Burns Subject: It's busy here! In-Reply-To: <199505252108.OAA07462@kendaco.telebyte.com> I just inherited some abandoned beehive boxes with crummy comb (all brace comb, etc, sitting on the ground, no top - you get the picture) and was finally going to move it a few nights ago (been full of robbers in the daytime) when I discovered that a swarm of some very nice bees (very gentle disposition) had moved in, with young brood in progress, etc! So, with a new top and bottom I moved it this morning to my alternate apiary 7 miles away. In the meantime, I had left another single deep super with old comb, in slightly better condition on the porch of my barn - intending to move that by 10 this morning before robbers could get to it. Got there at 10:30, and lo and behold, a new swarm was in the process of moving in. They've been at it all day, cleaning up this box - disposing of dead bees and garbage. I slid a top and bottom on - now there's a bunch of orientation fights going on. It's Swarming time here in Western Washington. (fortunately, nome of these swarms were from my hives, which are all new colonies.) Casey Burns ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 25 May 1995 21:09:30 GMT Reply-To: ibra@matheson.demon.co.uk Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: ibra Subject: Re: Bee tags and hive tags > Here's an idea we've considered, but are not yet using.(Currently we just # > with waterproof markers on the bottom chamber). > Cow tags - you know the ones that hang on a chain around the cows neck, then > hang them on a nail, or with a hive staple on the bottom chamber. I know you > can get them as individual numbers, or a whole series of numbers, or even with > letters (abcdefg...). > Just an idea! > > Beth Nixon Standard in New Zealand for many years. Ear tags for cows: weather (and I guess UV) resistant plastic, a variety of bright colours, numbers in sequence, with a hole in for nailing to the hive, removable and reusable....must have been designed by a beekeeper. Andrew -- ************************************************************************** * From Andrew Matheson, Director, International Bee Research Association * * * * E.mail (home): ibra@matheson.demon.co.uk * * (office): ibra@cardiff.ac.uk * * * * IBRA, 18 North Road, Cardiff CF1 3DY, UK * * Fax (+44) 1222-665522 Telephone (+44) 1222-372409 * * http://www.cardiff.ac.uk/ibra/index.html * * ************************************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 25 May 1995 19:47:08 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Charles Knecht Subject: goodtimes I believe the "good-times virus" is utterly a hoax, and not a hazard. Charles Knecht Bowling Green St Univ. Biology ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 25 May 1995 16:57:00 PDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Chris Laughbon Subject: Re: goodtimes ----- Begin Included Message ----- ---------- Charles Knecht wrote ----- I believe the "good-times virus" is utterly a hoax, and not a hazard. Charles Knecht Bowling Green St Univ. Biology ----- End Included Message ----- It is NOT a hoax. Everytime I see it crop up, my mailbox gets filled with endless discussion. It drives me and many others completely bat-ty. It is the most vile kind of virus. Chris L. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 25 May 1995 21:13:06 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "La Reine de la Cite' des Phoques (Liz Day)" Subject: Elsholtzia seeds Comments: To: lday@IndyNet.indy.net I feel buried by email. Please, if you would like Elsholtzia seeds, send me a self-addressed stamped (unless you're out of the US, but I don't think they're hardy in Canada) envelope. Then when the plant seeds later this summer, I will put seeds in your envelope and send it back. Thanks, Liz Day LDAY@indy.net Indianapolis, Indiana, USA 1207 Golden Hill Dr. Indianapolis, IN 46208 USA ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 26 May 1995 00:54:37 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Mike High Subject: Re: It's busy here! Interesting Casey! I had a similar experiace on Tuesday.I have 2 hive/super stacks full of drawn comb & honey left empty when 2 swarms died during the winter.I had the entrances blocked half heartedly and had robbers in & out.Then Tues. afternoon I heard the unmistakable sound of a swarm in my apiary and there they were clustered outside 1 hive stack.I just opened the entrance,rapped the box a few times and in they went!This swarm was also from another locale as none of mine had swarmed.Its swarm time in VA. too! By the way how is the honeyflow around the country?Its the best in years here. Mike High ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 26 May 1995 00:57:24 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Mike High Subject: Re: goodtimes In a manner of speaking it is a virus since it causes endless discussion that clogs up an otherwise terrific service(MY 2 CENTS WORTH) ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 26 May 1995 00:22:34 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Michael Moroney Subject: Re: ** VIRUS ** on Bee-L In-Reply-To: <199505251839.AA09072@world.std.com> > > Your access provider is an idiot then...think about it, what's to > >stop me from changing the subject heading from "Good Times" to "Free Bee > >Supplies"? Or is the whole virus program dependant on the subject heading > >to trigger the virus in an ASCII file? And how can you execute and ASCII > >file anyway? 8-} > > > It is (or was) possible to triger an action just by displaying an ASCII file! > If you were using an ANSI (aka VT100) terminal AND your mail reader did not > intercept escape sequences AND you were running a common shell or command > interpreter... then a devious message could do just about anything it wanted. No there is no way to have a devious mail message execute commands as you imply on a VT100. DEC was smart enough to leave the possibility out. I suppose it may be possible that some terminal programs, VT100 clones or other ANSI terminals may have added something. About the closest you could do with a VT100 is getting the terminal to send the answerback buffer but there's no way to load that remotely, you just got whatever the owner manually entered (if anything). You could, however, get a (real) VT100 in pretty strange states by certain escape sequences but nothing that could trigger action. -Mike ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 26 May 1995 08:33:18 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Kelley Rosenlund Subject: Papaya... Comments: To: Discussion of Bee Biology In my quest for farmers to rent my hives to I found a gentleman that raises papayas , pomegranites and other tropical fruit in greenhouses. In the summer months he opens the greenhouses up for ventilation. Does any one have info on pollinating tropical plants ? I realize a hive would not survive in a green house in the winter. What if there was a "back door" in the hive where the bees could go either into the greenhouse or forage out doors? God Bless, Kelley Rosenlund rosenlk@freenet.ufl.edu In the metropolis of Gainesville, Florida. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 26 May 1995 08:10:00 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Michael Stoops Subject: Re: clipping wings on queens In-Reply-To: <199505241738.MAA05368@Paula-Formby.tenet.edu> I agree with Jane. Good hive management is a lot better tool for swarm control than clipping wings. I have used double brood supers and have switched them whenI've found the queen in the upper brood chamber and most of the frames filled with brood. Keeping empty frames above the area where the queen is laying seems to provide whatever expansion is needed to prevent swarming. I've found that crowded hives is what induces the swarming instinct. MIKE STOOPS (mws@tenet.edu) Michael Stoops mws@tenet.edu Sugar Land, TX USA On Wed, 24 May 1995, Jane Beckman wrote: > I suspect that clipped wings is only a marginal guarantee against swarming: > if the queen can still fly, even badly, she may leave. I say this because > I obtained a swarm that had a queen with a clipped wing, and you will notice > it didn't stop her from leaving, even though she was an imperfect flier. I > suspect it would require a *radical* clipping job to prevent a swarmy queen > from leaving, and there would be other considerations, such as the tendency > of the workers to starve the queen in an attempt to get her to leave. > > Good hive management is a much better tool, in my opinion. > > Just a word to the wise. > > Jane B. [jane@swdc.stratus.com] > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 26 May 1995 07:11:44 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Subject: Baby nucs - Help! Well, In a moment of weakness, I just bought about 1200 baby nucs. They are made so that four of different colours go (tight together and facing different ways) on each common floor, and there is a common insulated lid. Each nuc is (guessing here) about an 8 inch cube and has some insulation (1/2 inch styrofoam) on two walls and a canvas cover. A 2 1/2 cup feeder is located in each as well as 3 tiny frames - most have one comb drawn or partially drawn. There is a 3/8 inch closable entrance and a 3/4 inch screened vent near the top. I searched my little library and found I haven't got any real info on how to stock them. Then I realised this is exactly where my friends on BEE-L can be of the most assistance. Here's the situation: We have 35 cells ripe today - later on in the day, 44 cells tomorrow later on in the day and 20-36 due on Monday. (I don't do the grafting and I don't keep the records - they came as a surprise - I thought we were only getting 20 today and I have 20 larger nucs ready). The questions: """""""""""""" Can I stock the nucs and introduce cells today - leaving them closed for a day or two? Temperatures are max 22 degrees Celcius (75 F or so) with frosts the last few nights. How best should I stock the nucs? What's the best way to shake bees for the nucs? How many bees should I put in each nuc? Any (FAST!) answers will be appreciated and please reply direct to me, not the list and I will summarise - much as Adam did after getting help with his nuc problem. Thanks in advance! Allen W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper VE6CFK Rural Route One Swalwell Alberta Canada T0M 1Y0 Email: dicka@cuug.ab.ca or allend@internode.net Futures, Art & Honey:http://www.cuug.ab.ca:8001/~dicka ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 26 May 1995 08:15:33 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Michael Stoops Subject: Re: Re[2]: Environmentally Friendly Yellow Jacket Removal In-Reply-To: <199505241908.OAA11849@Paula-Formby.tenet.edu> Has anyone tried using carbide (that substance cave explorers use in their lamps)? Seems if a carbide generator was set over one of the nest exits, its vapors would penetrate the nest, do the dirty deed, and not be nearly as environmentally harmful as gasoline. Then for fun, after about an hour of generation, you could light the nest off with a match and what the fumes didn't kill, the concusion would. MIKE STOOPS mws@tenet.edu On Wed, 24 May 1995, John E III Taylor wrote: > Casey Burns noted: > > > Many years ago, a friend of mine had to remove a ground hornet nest. He > > tried all of the common pesticides, as well as pouring gasoline down the > > several exit holes, and setting it ablaze. Nothing much happened except > > the hornets getting angrier. > > My own experience has been that gasoline does a better job if you _don't_ > set it ablaze. Left in liquid form, it vaporizes, and the vapors penetrate > downward into the nest, doing a fair (but not great) job of killing yellow > jackets (only thing I've tried it on). If you light the vapors, what doesn't > immediately burn gets sucked upwards into the flame, and doesn't do its job down > in the bowels of the nest. > > However, gasoline poured into the ground is environmentally unacceptable > nowadays. The shop vac sounds like an interesting alternative (but _two > weeks_?) > > John E. Taylor III W3ZID | "The opinions expressed are those of the > E-Mail: mah48d@rohmhaas.com | writer and not of Rohm and Haas Company." > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 26 May 1995 07:18:57 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Subject: Re: clipping wings on queens In-Reply-To: <9505261309.AA11006@cuugnet.cuug.ab.ca> On Fri, 26 May 1995, Michael Stoops wrote: > I agree with Jane. Good hive management is a lot better tool for swarm > control than clipping wings. I have used double brood supers and have > switched them whenI've found the queen in the upper brood chamber and > most of the frames filled with brood. Keeping empty frames above the > area where the queen is laying seems to provide whatever expansion is > needed to prevent swarming. I've found that crowded hives is what > induces the swarming instinct. MIKE STOOPS (mws@tenet.edu) May I add to that that your hive population may *double* three weeks after the first good pollen day and warm spell. Suddenly a hive that seemed to have ample room will develop burr comb and bees hanging out. Anticipate this and, if no cold weather is expected , add a super. If in doubt put the super above a single sheet of newspaper with a few small narrow cuts in it ((optional) - for them to start chewing on). If they don't require it, then they will leave the paper in place and stay warm. But, if they need the room, they will remove the paper and fill the super with bees and honey and have adequate room. You can add several supers with paper between each if you are going to be away. That way they can super themselves as required. Allen W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper VE6CFK Rural Route One Swalwell Alberta Canada T0M 1Y0 Email: dicka@cuug.ab.ca or allend@internode.net Futures, Art & Honey:http://www.cuug.ab.ca:8001/~dicka ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 26 May 1995 09:29:25 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Laura Downey Subject: Emergency queen cells Hello everyone, This is my first post to this list. I just subscribed a few days ago. I've been reading some interesting notes from everyone. I have been beekeeping for three years now in Maryland. I've lost bees due to both swarming and mites. This year I started out with two new hives of three banded Italians. Upon inspecting the hives yesterday, it appears that one hive is queenless. There are about three or four emergency cells hanging from the centers of the frames (not the bottom). Just this past Saturday, I saw the queen in the hive. There is currently small and larger larva in this hive. The second hive is doing great. I've placed a super on it already. After three years, this will be my _first_ crop of surplus honey! I'd like to know what could have happened to my queen. I'm not sure if they swarmed - but I don't think they did. The amount of bees between yesterday and this past weekend seems to be the same. I also like to know how emergency queens are regarded by beekeepers. Are they considered better or worse than queens reared from swarm cells? What should I expect from this currently queenless hive other than a lag behind the other hive in the way of brood and honey production? Thanks in advance for your answers! Laura Downey Maryland ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 26 May 1995 07:57:29 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Eric Abell Subject: Re: Baby nucs - Help! In-Reply-To: <9505261305.AA55670@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca> Tibor Szabo did some work on nucs like this some time ago. His procedure was to pour a cup of bees into each nuc and add a cell. The bees were then confined to the nuc for a few days. Good luck. Eric Abell email: eabell@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca Gibbons, AB, T0A 1N0 Canada (403) 998 3143 On Fri, 26 May 1995, Allen Dick wrote: > Well, In a moment of weakness, I just bought about 1200 baby nucs. > > They are made so that four of different colours go (tight together and > facing different ways) on each common floor, and there is a common insulated > lid. > > Each nuc is (guessing here) about an 8 inch cube and has some insulation > (1/2 inch styrofoam) on two walls and a canvas cover. A 2 1/2 cup feeder > is located in each as well as 3 tiny frames - most have one comb drawn or > partially drawn. There is a 3/8 inch closable entrance and a 3/4 inch > screened vent near the top. > > I searched my little library and found I haven't got any real info on how to > stock them. Then I realised this is exactly where my friends on BEE-L > can be of the most assistance. > > Here's the situation: > > We have 35 cells ripe today - later on in the day, 44 cells tomorrow later > on in the day and 20-36 due on Monday. (I don't do the grafting and I > don't keep the records - they came as a surprise - I thought we were > only getting 20 today and I have 20 larger nucs ready). > > The questions: > """""""""""""" > Can I stock the nucs and introduce cells today - leaving them closed for > a day or two? Temperatures are max 22 degrees Celcius (75 F or so) with > frosts the last few nights. > > How best should I stock the nucs? What's the best way to shake bees for > the nucs? How many bees should I put in each nuc? > > Any (FAST!) answers will be appreciated and please reply direct to me, > not the list and I will summarise - much as Adam did after getting help > with his nuc problem. > > Thanks in advance! > > Allen > > W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper VE6CFK > Rural Route One Swalwell Alberta Canada T0M 1Y0 > Email: dicka@cuug.ab.ca or allend@internode.net > Futures, Art & Honey:http://www.cuug.ab.ca:8001/~dicka > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 26 May 1995 09:13:42 CDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Phil Wood Subject: Mosquito Dunks a Hazard? In-Reply-To: <9505260502.AA05772 @psysparc.psyc.missouri.edu.psyc.missouri.edu>; from "Mike High" at May 26, 95 12:57 am As many of you know, the rain's been a bit on the heavy side in the Midwest this year. On my property, there is a small temporary pond that takes up residence during the monsoon season. My wife purchased some "mosquito dunks" which are, I believe, a slow-release form of thuricide, a bacteria which destroys mosquito larvae. Since my bees use this as a water source, is there any danger to the larvae in the hives when the workers bring water home? Just wondering if anyone can shed some light. Thanks for all your help! Phil Wood wood@psysparc.psyc.missouri.edu ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 26 May 1995 11:57:25 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ray Lackey Subject: hive labels - numbered Outdoor adhesive backed, consecutively numbered, vinyl labels 1/2 inch by 2 inches are available locally here for $60/1000. They are also available in aluminium. Bar coding is also available. "Property of XYZ Company" can be added for another $20. I checked the Thomas Register under "labels, consecutively numbered" in the local library and found listings for every state. Check your local yellow pages under "labels". I found several sources there. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ + Raymond J. Lackey + + Beekeeper 10 years with 25 colonies on Long Island, NY+ + INTERNET: rjl7317@hazeltine.com + + Mail: 1260 Walnut Avenue, Bohemia NY 11617 + + Home Phone: 516-567-1936 FAX: 516-262-8053 + ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 26 May 1995 09:28:23 PDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jane Beckman Subject: Ancient bee bacteria I haven't seen this one mentioned here, so I thought I'd pass it on. What sorts of diseases did it protect against? Could it have any value to modern bees? Jane B. -------- A bacteria that hibernated as a spore for at least 25 million years is awake and thriving after researchers recovered it from the gut of a bee that had been preserved in amber. Raul J. Cano of California Polytechnic University, San Luis Obispo, said the bacteria makes a natural antibiotic that kills other bacteria, helping to keep the bee hive free of disease. This natural anti- biotic is now being analyzed for possible use in medicine. (AP) ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 26 May 1995 11:51:44 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Doug Yanega Subject: Papaya... Comments: To: rosenlk@FREENET.UFL.EDU >In my quest for farmers to rent my hives to I found a gentleman that raises >papayas , pomegranites and other tropical fruit in greenhouses. In the >summer months he opens the greenhouses up for ventilation. > > Does any one have info on pollinating tropical plants ? > > I realize a hive would not survive in a green house in the winter. >What if there was a "back door" in the hive where the bees could go either >into the greenhouse or forage out doors? To be quite frank, you should bear in mind that many plants have evolved with pollinators *other* than honeybees. Folks seem to start from the assumption that all pollinators are created equal, and any plant can be pollinated if you just use enough honeybees. Papaya, for instance, is a plant apparently "designed" for pollination by hummingbirds and/or hawk moths. Some researchers claim it is *wind-pollinated*, too. Pollination by bees is known, but is probably not the normal mode of pollination, at any rate. In other words, in this case, honey bees may help, and give noticeable fruit set, but they may not be ideal. Likewise, pomegranates are apparently beetle-pollinated in nature, and there is no *direct* evidence that honeybees have any effect on fruit set (but people still use them, because no one has ever proven them to be INeffective, either). What you should do is get a copy of the 1976 "Insect Pollination of Cultivated Crop Plants", USDA Agriculture Handbook No. 496, by S.E. McGregor, which is where I got the information above. It is an invaluable resource, and frequently demonstrates how little anyone actually KNOWS about crop pollination. Cheers, Doug Yanega Illinois Natural History Survey, 607 E. Peabody Dr. Champaign, IL 61820 USA phone (217) 244-6817, fax (217) 333-4949 "There are some enterprises in which a careful disorderliness is the true method" - Herman Melville, Moby Dick, Chap. 82 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 26 May 1995 13:22:13 GMT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: MEMO 1995/05/26 13:48 From: John E III Taylor Subject: Re: Ancient bee bacteria There's more detailed information in _Science_, Vol. 268, May 19, 1995, on pages 977 (news article) and 1060 (the actual report). John E. Taylor III W3ZID | "The opinions expressed are those of the E-Mail: mah48d@rohmhaas.com | writer and not of Rohm and Haas Company." _______________________________________________________________________________ Subject: Ancient bee bacteria From: SMTP.BEEL1 at ROHMAIL Date: 5/26/95 12:29 PM [deletions] A bacteria that hibernated as a spore for at least 25 million years is awake and thriving after researchers recovered it from the gut of a bee that had been preserved in amber. [deletions] ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 26 May 1995 10:58:00 +0200 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Moote, John M." Subject: Breakdown of Fluvalinate in Honey Speaking of articles like the 25 million-year-old bacteria (also appearing in Science News recently), I saw an article in "Hewlett Packard Peak", No. 2, 1995 concerning acaricide analysis in honey. They noted the use of fluvalinate as a treatment against varroa mites. They analyzed honey by a variety of sophisticated analytical techniques (including supercritical fluid extraction, GC/MS and GC/AED for the initiated). In spiked honey (honey to which they intentionally added the material), the fluvalinate decreased tenfold in twenty days (if I read this right from 1.05 ppm to less than 0.1 ppm). The major residue found was phenoxybenzaldehyde along with at least three other verified compounds. Eighteen honey samples obtained from treated hives showed little or no fluvalinate but found high levels of the 3-phenoxybenzaldehyde (how much is not mentioned). None of the other residues were seen. Conclusion: Fluvalinate degrades rapidly (not so with the residues apparently). FYI John Moote Mootejm@BASF-Corp.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 26 May 1995 14:48:15 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Marc Patry Subject: Re: Breakdown of Fluvalinate in Honey In-Reply-To: <9505261801.AA03361@emr1.emr.ca> The question remains - how good is 3-benzoxyphenaldehyde for you? And would you feed it to YOUR kids if you knew there was even a trace of it in the honey you bought? Probably inconsequential, given all the other stuff we ingest in every day meals, but what counts is public perception, not scientific evidence. So far, I have been lucky, keeping my hives in a remote spot in the hills, no mites, I don't ever treat my bees. For how long? Question then - can healthy honey bees catch typical bee diseases if they are not in contact with other honey bees? Marc Patry Near Ottawa, Ontario, where apple trees have finally blossomed! ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 26 May 1995 07:56:01 -1000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Thomas W. Culliney" Subject: Re: goodtimes In-Reply-To: <9505260452.AA03088@hinc.hawaii.gov> On Fri, 26 May 1995, Mike High wrote: > In a manner of speaking it is a virus since it causes endless > discussion that clogs up an otherwise terrific service(MY 2 > CENTS WORTH) I agree, and it is a very successful virus, disseminating itself widely in secondary infections. Tom =============================================================================== Thomas W. Culliney * Phone: (808) 973-9529 Hawaii Dept. of Agriculture * Facsimile: (808) 973-9533 Division of Plant Industry * E-mail: tcullin@hinc.hawaii.gov 1428 South King Street * Honolulu, Hawaii 96814 * U.S.A. * =============================================================================== "...but in the minds of most men, the learned as well as the vulgar, the idea of the trifling nature of his pursuit is so strongly associated with that of the diminutive size of its objects, that an _Entomologist_ is synonymous with every thing futile and childish."--Kirby & Spence (1816) =============================================================================== ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 26 May 1995 19:56:17 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Terry Yawn Subject: Bees: Comments: To: Discussion of Bee Biology In-Reply-To: <199505161357.JAA66721@freenet2.freenet.ufl.edu> I would like to request that all correspondents start the "Subject:" with "Bees:" and then the detail about which they wish to discuss. This will greatly contribute to many user's sorting and prompt reply. Thanks! Terry Yawn voice phone (904) 335-3930 Theron A. Yawn III, Esq. SFCC Office A-07 395-5031 3150-A NW 79th Court Office Hours: TBA Gainesville, FL 32606-6252 e-mail: afn08939@freenet.ufl.edu.us THE ULTIMATE ANSWER TO ALL SOCIAL PROBLEMS IS:...PUT EDUCATION FIRST!!! ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 26 May 1995 17:16:00 PDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Chris Laughbon Subject: Nice Try ----- Begin Included Message ----- I would like to request that all correspondents start the "Subject:" with "Bees:" and then the detail about which they wish to discuss. This will greatly contribute to many user's sorting and prompt reply. Thanks! Terry Yawn voice phone (904) 335-3930 Theron A. Yawn III, Esq. SFCC Office A-07 395-5031 3150-A NW 79th Court Office Hours: TBA Gainesville, FL 32606-6252 e-mail: afn08939@freenet.ufl.edu.us THE ULTIMATE ANSWER TO ALL SOCIAL PROBLEMS IS:...PUT EDUCATION FIRST!!! ----- End Included Message ----- Trying to bring order to the internet. The only way to do it would be if the listserver software automatically tagged it such. Good Luck.... chris ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 26 May 1995 18:46:11 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Rob Bidleman Subject: Re: Nice Try In-Reply-To: <199505270017.AA11673@mail.crl.com> On Fri, 26 May 1995, Chris Laughbon wrote: > I would like to request that all correspondents start the "Subject:" with > "Bees:" and then the detail about which they wish to discuss. This will > greatly contribute to many user's sorting and prompt reply. Thanks! //////////////////////// FLAME SHIELDS UP (warning) \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ ** There is a treatment for anal-retentive/compulsive behavior. I would like to request that all such posts begin with: "Bitch:" and then the detail with which they are discussing. There is also a "digest" option that one could utilize to easily accomodate "sorting" problems. ////////////////////////// FLAME SHIELDS DOWN \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 26 May 1995 21:47:09 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: tom Taylor Subject: Re: Emergency Queen Cells The honeybee has been such a wonderful piece of evolution. But in the area of emergency queen rearing there could have been a better system worked out. (maybe in a million or so years this whole area will be imporoved). Here is the flaw. When the queen dies in a colony a number of emergency queen cells are initiated. The age of the larvae that are pressed into service are anywhere from a few hours old to possibly 60 or so hours old. While older larvae will develop into queens it is generaly reconized that the older the larvae the more inferior the queen. Left to their own devices the most advanced larvae will hatch first. Now the first to hatch (inferior) queen will run around and destroy all of her siblings who are younger, some of which would have developed into very good queens. This "not so good" queen will go through the mating phase and return to her hive and will likely soon fail in her duties. As a last desperate act she will lay an egg or two in existing queen cell cups in the colony. Now this new queen will likely be much better than her mother was, but the colony has raised two queens in succession without any great deal of brood hatching. The population has taken a nose dive and the colony may not survive. You can come to the rescue! When you see an emergency cell situation you can choose one or preferably two of the very youngest cells to keep and destroy the older ones. In this way you can insure that the queen that hatches has been initiated from a very young larvae. You can take advantage of this whole idea when making nucs in the spring. Instead of raising your own queens let the bees do it. Just prune out the oldest cells on about the 5th day after you set the nuc up. Granted, this proceedure will result in a 10 day delay in the development of the nuc, but you will not have to dance through the hoops of raising your own queen cells, and you certaily won't propigate great gobs of queens with unrecognised inferior characteristics. I think may of us have done this in our "super queen" breeding programs. So much for my "droning" on. -- tom taylor Honeywood Bee Supplies Nipawin, Sask. -not quite at the end of the earth, but if I get onto my roof I can see it from here! ;-) -- ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 27 May 1995 03:02:31 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Subject: Emergency cells, grafting, mated queens and rambling In-Reply-To: <9505270336.AA16468@cuugnet.cuug.ab.ca> On Fri, 26 May 1995, tom Taylor wrote: Hi Tom! > Here is the flaw. When the queen dies in a colony a number of emergency > queen cells are initiated. The age of the larvae that are pressed into > service are anywhere from a few hours old to possibly 60 or so hours old. > While older larvae will develop into queens it is generaly reconized that > the older the larvae the more inferior the queen. Left to their own > devices the most advanced larvae will hatch first. It seems the total development time (from the time of egg laying) on queens - whether started from the oldest possible or the youngest larvae are the same - give or take very little. I had thought (reasoned) that the intercastes that develop from the older larvae *should* be slower (more like the time required for a worker). If that were the case, then things would even out, but when we graft, we find that the cells from older larvae do, in fact, usually emerge first. There is some variation in development time between queens that we attribute to genetics or position in the hive/incubator and resulting slight temperature differences. This is more obvious that any effects due to intercasting. > Now the first to hatch > (inferior) queen will run around and destroy all of her siblings who are > younger, some of which would have developed into very good queens. This > "not so good" queen will go through the mating phase and return to her hive > and will likely soon fail in her duties. As a last desperate act she will > lay an egg or two in existing queen cell cups in the colony. I assume that supercedure will take place without the colony necessarily going through a queenless phase in most cases, but that in the meantime the colony may not reach its potential and that the danger of drone layers developing without replacement queens being raised exists. We've noticed a marked drop in drone layers since we began raising our own cells using grafting. For a few years we tried the 'split em in half and let them raise cells method' and found that the hives were not doing as well in spite of queens that looked okay. > You can come to the rescue! When you see an emergency cell situation you > can choose one or preferably two of the very youngest cells to keep and > destroy the older ones. In this way you can insure that the queen that > hatches has been initiated from a very young larvae. > > You can take advantage of this whole idea when making nucs in the spring. > Instead of raising your own queens let the bees do it. Just prune out the > oldest cells on about the 5th day after you set the nuc up. Granted, this > proceedure will result in a 10 day delay in the development of the nuc, > but you will not have to dance through the hoops of raising your own queen > cells, This 10 day delay (can be less, but can be 20 days if bad weather hits) is overrated IMHO. Unless you direct release a mated queen, there is an (unpredictable) introduction time of up to a week with mated queens. I'd like some debate on this, but I think caged mated queens are often overrated in comparison to cells. Of course, introducing laying mated queens from a nuc together with with some combs with their brood is a different matter, and much superior to either of the previously mentioned alternatives from a time loss and from a acceptance rate perspective. Where direct release is possible, mated queens have the advantage. However, We have had a few caged queens that were still found in cages weeks later -- in spite of all the candy being eaten out. Last year we bought some offshore queens and the candy was too hard. In spite of nail holes, some took weeks to get released. Nothing is simpler than popping a ripe cell (or two) into a colony that needs a queen. There is no need to find and remove competing cells and cceptance is pretty certain. Usually on the 11th day there will be eggs. BTW, that Genter grafting thing never did work for us. Hand grafting from normal combs is much simpler than trying to make that silly thing work. Bulletin: Anyone who wants a real deal on a Genter grafting kit, drop me an email. The only problem with hand grafting is finding appropriate larve some days - especially 4 days after a rain or sudden weather change. Many confine the queen to one or two combs, or an area on one comb - as Adam is setting up to do. However we rotate breeders constantly, and therefore find it simpler to just take the luck of the draw. > and you certaily won't propigate great gobs of queens with > unrecognised inferior characteristics. I think may of us have done this in > our "super queen" breeding programs. Well, I shudder when people use one breeder for thousands of queens and use them in their own outfit, especially when they plan to winter them. We delibertely rotate through a succession of queens and avoid inbreeding as much as possible, seeing as we have no illusions about being smart and dedicated enough at this stage to manage such a powerful influence. > -not quite at the end of the earth, but if I get onto my roof I can see it > from here! ;-) Oh, come on Tom! You know you can't see Swalwell from there. Allen W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper VE6CFK Rural Route One Swalwell Alberta Canada T0M 1Y0 Email: dicka@cuug.ab.ca or allend@internode.net Futures, Art & Honey:http://www.cuug.ab.ca:8001/~dicka ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 27 May 1995 09:43:16 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Subject: Re: Baby nucs - Help! In-Reply-To: <9505270745041500@beenet.com> Okay, now we've done some of the baby nucs. We shooksome poorer hives into a cardboard box with flaps tucked right down inside in to make a trap for bees running up the side and kept them down with light smoke and sugar syrup sprayed from a Windex bottle. However I am wondering how best to filter out the drones and queens from these inferior hives so that thy don't wind up in the bulk bees and they can be disposed of in an appropriate fashion. I know an excluder is involved, but how best do I use it? Another question: how might possible acarine in the bulk bees for the nucs influence queen rearing and what measures do those who have acarine use to deal with this problem? Allen W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper VE6CFK Rural Route One Swalwell Alberta Canada T0M 1Y0 Email: dicka@cuug.ab.ca or allend@internode.net Futures, Art & Honey:http://www.cuug.ab.ca:8001/~dicka ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 27 May 1995 12:53:00 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "David F. Verville" Subject: Newly mated queen Comments: To: att!BEE-L@UACSC2.ALBANY.EDU Several weeks ago, I started to make a new queen by putting a couple of frames with eggs into a nuc box. Two weeks ago I saw what I thought was the queen but she hadn't started to lay yet. All of the brood had emerged. Today at hign noon, with no smoke, I openned it again, (4X) I did not see the queen but I did see eggs and some other STRANGE things! First I should say that the bees were very content! (Red pollen again!) 1 There were three queen cells with two and three eggs inside. 2 There were some cells with two or three eggs inside. 3 There were cells with eggs attached to the very bottom but at the sides. Some eggs where not at the bottom but half way up an the sides. 4 There were many many cells where the egg was perfectly centered as they should be. 5 There where eggs outside the pollen/honey band. I am assuming that there is a mated queen, she just has not got her act together or shall I assume a laying worker. I guess I will really know a week from now as the cells get capped. Any one ever see this before? Dave Verville att!mvtowers!mvdfv ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 21 May 1995 15:36:34 +600 Reply-To: demde@hookup.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Dirk Emde ********************************************************** Dirk Emde demde@hookup.net Kitchener On Canada voice (519) 579-2982 ********************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 28 May 1995 08:45:44 -1000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Kevin Roddy Subject: queenlessness for an extended period In-Reply-To: <9505270004.AA21735@uhunix4.uhcc.Hawaii.Edu> A novice beekeeper friend of mine who recently captured a swarm (april 29) found out last week (May 19) that his hive was queenless. He thought that if his bees were bringing in pollen, everything was okay. He was somewhat curious about a lot of bees just standing on the bottom board. He opened up the hive to find that there was no brood--only cured honey and pollen stores. He immediately ordered and installed a new queen on May 23. What are the chances that this hive can be saved? thanks for any and all opinions! kevin kroddy@uhunix.uhcc.hawaii.edu ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 28 May 1995 23:20:52 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Michael Stoops Subject: Re: Emergency cells, grafting, mated queens and rambling In-Reply-To: <199505270906.EAA08804@Paula-Formby.tenet.edu> One speaks of using drones in the local area to mate with the newly emerged queens. Here in southern/central Texas, that is no longer a viable method. We now have feral colonies of the 'Aficanized' bee and knowing that the Africanized drones fly faster than the European drones, we really run the risk of Africanizing our hives. In remote areas that might not be a problem, but in the more populus areas that can really have a negative effect on the local community and on the reputation of bee keepers in general. Known genetic backgrounds of the queens we use for requeening is just about requisit in this area now. As I drive some state roads between Houston, Texas and Austin, I see bait hives put up by the roads in an effort to track the progress of the 'African' variety. MIKE mws@tenet.edu.usa On Sat, 27 May 1995, Allen Dick wrote: > On Fri, 26 May 1995, tom Taylor wrote: > > Hi Tom! > > > > Here is the flaw. When the queen dies in a colony a number of emergency > > queen cells are initiated. The age of the larvae that are pressed into > > service are anywhere from a few hours old to possibly 60 or so hours old. > > While older larvae will develop into queens it is generaly reconized that > > the older the larvae the more inferior the queen. Left to their own > > devices the most advanced larvae will hatch first. > > It seems the total development time (from the time of egg laying) on > queens - whether started from the oldest possible or the youngest larvae > are the same - give or take very little. > > I had thought (reasoned) that the intercastes that develop from the older > larvae *should* be slower (more like the time required for a worker). If > that were the case, then things would even out, but when we graft, we find > that the cells from older larvae do, in fact, usually emerge first. > > There is some variation in development time between queens that we > attribute to genetics or position in the hive/incubator and resulting slight > temperature differences. This is more obvious that any effects due to > intercasting. > > > Now the first to hatch > > (inferior) queen will run around and destroy all of her siblings who are > > younger, some of which would have developed into very good queens. This > > "not so good" queen will go through the mating phase and return to her hive > > and will likely soon fail in her duties. As a last desperate act she will > > lay an egg or two in existing queen cell cups in the colony. > > I assume that supercedure will take place without the colony necessarily > going through a queenless phase in most cases, but that in the meantime > the colony may not reach its potential and that the danger of drone layers > developing without replacement queens being raised exists. > > We've noticed a marked drop in drone layers since we began raising our > own cells using grafting. For a few years we tried the 'split em in half > and let them raise cells method' and found that the hives were not doing > as well in spite of queens that looked okay. > > > You can come to the rescue! When you see an emergency cell situation you > > can choose one or preferably two of the very youngest cells to keep and > > destroy the older ones. In this way you can insure that the queen that > > hatches has been initiated from a very young larvae. > > > > You can take advantage of this whole idea when making nucs in the spring. > > Instead of raising your own queens let the bees do it. Just prune out the > > oldest cells on about the 5th day after you set the nuc up. Granted, this > > proceedure will result in a 10 day delay in the development of the nuc, > > but you will not have to dance through the hoops of raising your own queen > > cells, > > This 10 day delay (can be less, but can be 20 days if bad weather hits) is > overrated IMHO. Unless you direct release a mated queen, there is an > (unpredictable) introduction time of up to a week with mated queens. > > I'd like some debate on this, but I think caged mated queens are often > overrated in comparison to cells. Of course, introducing laying mated > queens from a nuc together with with some combs with their brood is a > different matter, and much superior to either of the previously mentioned > alternatives from a time loss and from a acceptance rate perspective. > > Where direct release is possible, mated queens have the advantage. > > However, We have had a few caged queens that were still found in cages > weeks later -- in spite of all the candy being eaten out. Last year we > bought some offshore queens and the candy was too hard. In spite of nail > holes, some took weeks to get released. > > Nothing is simpler than popping a ripe cell (or two) into a colony that > needs a queen. There is no need to find and remove competing cells and > cceptance is pretty certain. Usually on the 11th day there will be eggs. > > BTW, that Genter grafting thing never did work for us. Hand grafting > from normal combs is much simpler than trying to make that silly thing > work. Bulletin: Anyone who wants a real deal on a Genter grafting kit, drop > me an email. > > The only problem with hand grafting is finding appropriate larve some days > - especially 4 days after a rain or sudden weather change. Many confine > the queen to one or two combs, or an area on one comb - as Adam is setting > up to do. However we rotate breeders constantly, and therefore find > it simpler to just take the luck of the draw. > > > and you certaily won't propigate great gobs of queens with > > unrecognised inferior characteristics. I think may of us have done this in > > our "super queen" breeding programs. > > Well, I shudder when people use one breeder for thousands of queens and > use them in their own outfit, especially when they plan to winter them. > We delibertely rotate through a succession of queens and avoid inbreeding > as much as possible, seeing as we have no illusions about being smart and > dedicated enough at this stage to manage such a powerful influence. > > > -not quite at the end of the earth, but if I get onto my roof I can see it > > from here! ;-) > > Oh, come on Tom! You know you can't see Swalwell from there. > > Allen > > W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper VE6CFK > Rural Route One Swalwell Alberta Canada T0M 1Y0 > Email: dicka@cuug.ab.ca or allend@internode.net > Futures, Art & Honey:http://www.cuug.ab.ca:8001/~dicka > ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 28 May 1995 23:24:43 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Michael Stoops Subject: Re: Newly mated queen Comments: To: "David F. Verville" In-Reply-To: <199505271657.LAA18436@Paula-Formby.tenet.edu> Sounds to me like you have a classic case of a laying worker. Even newly mated queens only lay one egg per cell, and in the center of the bottom. In all my reading, what you have described is typically what a laying worker does. On Sat, 27 May 1995, David F. Verville wrote: > Several weeks ago, I started to make a new queen by putting a couple > of frames with eggs into a nuc box. > Two weeks ago I saw what I thought was the queen but she hadn't started > to lay yet. All of the brood had emerged. > Today at hign noon, with no smoke, I openned it again, (4X) > I did not see the queen but I did see eggs and some other STRANGE things! > First I should say that the bees were very content! (Red pollen again!) > > 1 There were three queen cells with two and three eggs inside. > 2 There were some cells with two or three eggs inside. > 3 There were cells with eggs attached to the very bottom but at the sides. > Some eggs where not at the bottom but half way up an the sides. > 4 There were many many cells where the egg was perfectly > centered as they should be. > 5 There where eggs outside the pollen/honey band. > > I am assuming that there is a mated queen, she just has not got her act > together or shall I assume a laying worker. > I guess I will really know a week from now as the cells get capped. > Any one ever see this before? > Dave Verville > > att!mvtowers!mvdfv > ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 28 May 1995 23:29:09 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Michael Stoops Subject: Re: queenlessness for an extended period Comments: To: Kevin Roddy In-Reply-To: <199505281909.OAA09768@Paula-Formby.tenet.edu> Kevin, The hive can probably bee saved, however not as a large honey producer this year. What would help a great deal is if he can take a frame or two of brood from another hive and swap frames with the weak hive. Doing this twice or three times with a week interval between each should help keep the hive much stronger. You might also reduce the entrance so as to reduce the number of guard bees needed to keep the hive from being robbed out by other bees. On Sun, 28 May 1995, Kevin Roddy wrote: > A novice beekeeper friend of mine who recently captured a swarm (april 29) > found out last week (May 19) that his hive was queenless. He thought that > if his bees were bringing in pollen, everything was okay. He was somewhat > curious about a lot of bees just standing on the bottom board. He opened > up the hive to find that there was no brood--only cured honey and pollen > stores. He immediately ordered and installed a new queen on May 23. What > are the chances that this hive can be saved? > > thanks for any and all opinions! > > kevin > kroddy@uhunix.uhcc.hawaii.edu > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 29 May 1995 13:35:41 GMT+2 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Paul Magnuson Organization: NIPB Subject: Olympus Hi All I am looking for e-mail addresses or fax numbers for a few bee research deities ;- ) Friederich Ruttner Hayo Velthuis John Free Orley Taylor. Please respond directly to me. I would appreciate any help you can give me. Regards Paul Have you crashed your Windows today? Paul Magnuson ppripcm@plant1.agric.za Honeybee Research Unit Plant Protection Res. Inst. Agricultural Research Council. Private Bag X134 Tel. (012) 319 7113, Fax (012) 323 5275 Pretoria 0001 South Africa ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 29 May 1995 08:43:53 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Subject: African Drones In-Reply-To: <9505290419.AA13896@cuugnet.cuug.ab.ca> On Sun, 28 May 1995, Michael Stoops wrote: > One speaks of using drones in the local area to mate with the newly > emerged queens. Here in southern/central Texas, that is no longer a > viable method. We now have feral colonies of the 'Aficanized' bee and > knowing that the Africanized drones fly faster than the European drones, > we really run the risk of Africanizing our hives. I wonder if it would be possible to develop a lure that would draw and dispose of all the drones in an area, so that a known drone population could be put in it's place from time to time. I also wonder - do the african drones from feral hives move (drift) into domestic hives? W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper VE6CFK Rural Route One Swalwell Alberta Canada T0M 1Y0 Email: dicka@cuug.ab.ca or allend@internode.net Futures, Art & Honey:http://www.cuug.ab.ca:8001/~dicka ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 29 May 1995 09:47:00 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Kerry Clark 784-2225 fax (604) 784 2299" Subject: Re: Baby nucs - Help! Hi Allen Some thoughts on your stocking nucs: 1) Maybe the poorer hives are not the best source for your bees: The bees may be older, and have a higher % tracheal mites (if you suspect a problem). Fewer, good hives loaded with young bees could give you the clean, long lived bees you need. 2) Tracheal mites in the shook bees: Should not be a significant problem this time of year, unless the hives are indeed really poor, with old infested bees and a really poor queen (re point 1). If you're thinking of treating, I'd suggest treating the source colonies, before shaking. Then you start with fewer mites, and don't risk the more valuable new queens. 3) Filtering out the queens and drones: The drone part of this may be mostly irrelevant. The most I can think of is the drone content of the "cup" of workers you use. Drones will drift to the nucs with young queens, anyway. To remove the queen from shook bees, consider finding and removing her. It may be easier than the filter. However, a queen excluder can be used as a filter, in a way I've seen people use to make packages: by setting a box of comb (or even foundation) on a bottom board, then putting another box (could be shallow, with 3 frames, then a queen excluder, then an empty deep box, and a lid. The bees from a hive are shook into the top empty box, smoked and lid put on. The bees will go down through the excluder to the frames below, leaving the queen (and drones) on top of the excluder. You then look though the clumps of bees on the excluder, find the queen and put her where you want her. I suppose in your case, you could shake several colonies into the same box, add another excluder instead of the lid, and keep the bigs trapped there, while you smoke the workers down. Good Luck Nice dandelion flow on here. Colonies still a bit small. Kerry Clark, Apiculture Specialist B.C. Ministry of Agriculture 1201 103 Ave Dawson Creek B.C. V1G 4J2 CANADA Tel (604) 784-2225 fax (604) 784-2299 INTERNET KCLARK@GALAXY.GOV.BC.CA ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 29 May 1995 19:12:12 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Malcolm (Tom) Sanford, Florida Extension Apiculturist" Subject: May issue of APIS Distributed to: USR:[MTS]INTERNET.DIS;63 FILENAME: MAYAPIS.95 Florida Extension Beekeeping Newsletter Apis--Apicultural Information and Issues (ISSN 0889-3764) Volume 13, Number 5, May 1995 Copyright (c) 1995 M.T. Sanford "All Rights Reserved" A FLORIDIAN WINNER Sixth grader Audrey Powell, age twelve, of Havana, FL is the third-place winner in this year's 4-H Essay Contest, sponsored by the American Beekeeping Federation. Audrey's essay, "A Honey of a Day," tells the story of seven-year-old Rosa Fleming, who tags along with her father one day to gather honey from the bees. Congratulations to Audrey, who wins the $50.00 third prize, as well as a bee book for her efforts. In the June 1994 issue of this newsletter, I said that Florida has had very few entries in this contest over the last several years. Well, that trend was reversed in 1994. A total of fourteen essays were submitted. This renewed interest is gratifying, and I hope it will continue. It's not too early to begin thinking about the 1996 contest. The title is "How Honey Bees Ensure Our Food Supply." This essay should detail the range of crops that require bees for pollination and what particular things (i.e. increase yield, quality, cosmetics) bee pollination does for each. The guidelines also state that this question be addressed: "If honey bees are not native to the United States, why are they essential to the cultivation of our food crops?" For a complete copy of the rules, contact this office or the American Beekeeping Federation, P.O. Box 1038, Jesup, GA 31545, ph 912/427-8447. MINUSCULE MINERALS Every once in a while, I am told by beekeepers that they find the addition of salt to the bees' diet to be beneficial. Perhaps the beekeeper perceives this as true, but there is evidence to the contrary. In the 1992 The Hive and the Honey Bee, the chapter by E. Herbert on nutrition provides some information. Unfortunately, the author says "Less is known about the mineral requirement of honey bees than the other classes of nutrients." He goes on to say that salt mixtures used in vertebrate feeding often contain excessive amounts of calcium and sodium and insufficient amounts of potassium. Studies using Wesson's salts, for example, showed less diet consumed and less brood reared when compared with those fortified with ash (minerals) from pollen. The most striking feature was the sodium level in Wesson's salts (3.3%) compared to pollen ash (.22%). Recently, there was a discussion about the effects of iron on honey bees across the Internet. Allen Dick, a Canadian beekeeper, writes: "Our water system gives out rusty water sometimes and this may be the only water convenient for diluting syrup. Additionally barrels used for storing syrup tend to get rusty after a few years of intermittent use. Is there a danger of toxicity to bees from rust, or is it only elemental iron that is dangerous?" Dr. Jerry Bromenshenk at the University of Montana replied via the Bee-L Internet discussion list: "Like any element, bees, mammals, people, have more or less fixed tolerance ranges. Within the tolerance range, the body can probably regulate the levels in tissues via a variety of mechanisms, such as excreting excessive amounts. Elements like iron generally have to be present at some minimal level for healthy bees, but too much is not necessarily better or good." Should one use rusty equipment? Dr. Bromenshenk says no, not because there is evidence of harm, but because he is not in favor of introducing high levels of any chemical into a food- producing system. He knows no way to determine how much might get into honey, most likely to happen if you are providing water on hot days in rusty containers. The effects of high iron content on colonies, if any, according to Dr. Bromenshenk, are likely to be subtle and hard to identify, although they could be economically costly. Dr. Bromenshenk concludes, therefore, that unless you really dose them with iron, one won't see piles of dead bees. Even fluoride (F) poisoning rarely results in the typical scenario described above for pesticide kills, according to Dr. Bromenshenk. Fluoride accumulation is a hotly debated issue, he says, but there is evidence in the older U.S. and European literature that this element is not good for bees and concentrates in their tissues. Over the last 20 years, Dr. Bromenshenk has found that beekeepers near aluminum smelters, oil refineries, phosphate plants, or in areas where the water is high in fluoride (either naturally, such as occurs in deep artesian wells in Montana or fluoridated, as in city water supplies) have "elevated" levels of F in their bees. On a dry weight basis, any with concentrations of more than 40 (ppm) or parts per million (40/1,000,000=.000004 or .00004 percent), he says, is elevated. Bees near refineries tend to range from 40-80 ppm; those close to phosphate plants may show 120 ppm or more. On an island between Canada and New York, with aluminum smelters on both sides, the F levels were found to be over 200 ppm. Bees appear to get most F from the air, according to Dr. Bromenshenk, and levels will be about twice as high in forager bees as in nurse bees, while not detectable in larvae or pupae. He and his students have followed F dispersion for 60 to 90 miles from a large industrial source. However, as noted above, high levels could also come from an artesian spring or fluoridated water supply. Dr. Bromenshenk's observations are based on commercial beekeepers running several thousand colonies near smelters and migratory beekeepers moving bees in and out of these regions. The results are variable, he concludes, as bee kills occur every few years, generally in the spring during buildup or during periods of nectar dearth. The bees always die in the same yards, usually downwind from the industrial source. There is almost always a gradient, with bees at yards closest to the source getting hit the hardest. Residue levels in these dead bees normally exceed 120 ppm F. In conclusion, according to Dr. Bromenshenk, one can have bees even with 180-200 ppm F levels and no obvious toxicity, but only if they are in good condition. This means not being heavily stressed by other factors such as poor nutrition and mite parasitization. Unfortunately, one cannot easily detect chronic effects of F toxicity because losses may be not be expressed directly, but only in reduced disease resistance and lowered productivity. Would Dr. Bromenshenk put bees where either the water or air had elevated F? NO! Does he think beekeepers suffer losses from F? YES! If sodium, iron and fluoride levels all bear reexamination in beekeeping, this is probably true for other minerals as well. High mineral levels may be the reason, Dr. Herbert says in The Hive and the Honey Bee, bees winter poorly on honey dew honey which contains about 0.73% ash as opposed to floral honey with 0.17% ash. He concludes, therefore, that "Excessive levels of minerals can be toxic to honey bees..." And, as pointed out by Dr. Bromenshenk, it may not take more than a minuscule amount to make a big difference." EAS YEAR OF THE HIVE The beekeepers of Ohio welcome you to the "Year of the Hive," in Wooster, OH July 30 through August 4, 1995. This is the annual meeting of the Eastern Apicultural Society (EAS), arguably one of the largest beekeeping events to be held each year. This meeting promises to be the biggest and best yet. An article on the event will even be featured in the June issue of Modern Maturity Magazine. With a readership in excess of several million persons, if only a few of these retired folks contemplate becoming a beekeeper, this might result in the most attendance ever. This attention translates into one thing. Register early to avoid being left out. Money must be received by June 26 or a late fee of $20.00 is imposed and no reservations will be taken after July 5. Monday, July 30 through Wednesday morning will be given over to the annual EAS short course, limit 50 participants @ $95.00 each. Overlapping the last day of the short course will be a workshop by the American Apitherapy Association ($30/person). And on Thursday, the Master Beekeeper examination will be held. For details, write Loretta Surprenant, Box 330A, County Home Rd., Essex, NY 12936. The regular meeting will be held Wednesday a.m., all day Thursday (lectures in the a.m. and seven concurrent clusters of workshops in the p.m.) and Friday (lectures in the a.m and more workshops in the p.m.). The event concludes with the annual banquet Friday night. It is impossible to fully describe all the scheduled events here. The summer 1995 issue of the Ohio State Beekeepers Association News Digest is devoted to this program. For a copy, write this office or Dr. J. Tew, OARDC/Dept. of Entomology, 1680 Madison Ave., Wooster, OH 44691, ph 216/263- 3684; fax 216/262-2720. All the bee journals will also be carrying announcements. IS BEEKEEPING INTEREST ON THE UPSWING? Dr. Robert Berthold writes in the May issue of The Speedy Bee that his spring short course had the most attendance since the 1970s. He says that the late Paul Cummings from his state of Pennsylvania observed interest in the craft to be cyclical over the 80 years of his life. I also have seen that enthusiasm for beekeeping appears to be picking up in Florida. There have been two successful yearly seminars in the panhandle, one in Jacksonville and the first ever meeting of New York beekeepers at Archbold Biological Station near Lake Placid, FL. The Jacksonville meeting was unique because most of those attending were not beekeepers yet, but were contemplating entering the field. Several have since made the plunge. Conventional wisdom and experience tells us that a "new" kind of beekeeping will probably rise from the ashes of the "old." It is comforting to know that in spite of Varroa mites, African bees and a host of other problems, human fascination in keeping this social insect does not easily die. GEORGIA BEEKEEPING INSTITUTE The Georgia Beekeeping Institute will be held at Young Harris College in Young Harris, GA, June 16-17, 1995. Billed by the informational brochure as the "perfect setting to study bees and beekeeping," this educational event set in the north Georgia mountains caters to both the beginner and advanced beekeeper. It is informal and inexpensive. I am on the program this year along with Drs. Mike Hood and John Harbo. To register and for more information, contact Mrs. Tracy Coker, University of Georgia Cooperative Extension Service, Athens, GA 30602, ph 706/542-8954; early bird registration expires June 2, 1995. Sincerely, Malcolm T. Sanford Bldg 970, Box 110620 University of Florida Gainesville, FL 32611-0620 Phone (904) 392-1801, Ext. 143 FAX: 904-392-0190 BITNET Address: MTS@IFASGNV; INTERNET Address: MTS@GNV.IFAS.UFL.EDU APIS on the World Wide Web-- http://gnv.ifas.ufl.edu/~entweb/apis/apis.htm Copyright (c) M.T. Sanford 1995 "All Rights Reserved" ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 30 May 1995 15:09:09 GMT+2 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Paul Magnuson Organization: NIPB Subject: Olympus revisited Hi again Thank you all for the responses I have received to my last enquiry. One more: does anyone have a more detailed address for Gene Robinson? I have ROBINSON@UIUCVMD. Not being familiar with 'Mercan addresses, I would appreciate someone completing it for me. Thanks again Paul Paul Magnuson ppripcm@plant1.agric.za Honeybee Research Unit Plant Protection Res. Inst. Agricultural Research Council. Private Bag X134 Tel. (012) 319 7113, Fax (012) 323 5275 Pretoria 0001 South Africa ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 30 May 1995 11:39:40 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Randy Lynn Subject: Re: hive labels- numbered For numbering hives I like the small metal ear tags sold by Nasco. They are 1 inch metal, available in red, yellow and white, and are numbered sequentally from 1 to1000. The minimum order is 100. They cost $13.45 per hundred and last forever. I just use a thumbtack to hold it on the front of the hive just above the handhold. Nasco order number C1N white, C2N red, C5671N Yellow 1-800-558-9595, 414-563-2446, fax 414-563-8296 Randy Lynn Blossom Ridge Bee Farm, Summerfield, NC ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 30 May 1995 11:05:14 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: RFC822 error: Incorrect or incomplete address field found and ignored. From: Jeff Fagerman Subject: How to move a bumblebee nests? Hello everyone, I have a bumblebee nest (in the ground alongside my children's sandbox) that I would like to excavate and move. I am not an expert in this, in fact, this will be my first non-honeybee venture. I am looking for advice from those better informed before I undertake this task. One point, I would like to keep the bees for further observation and study. Here's my current plan for removal: 1. Construct a small box (next) about 6 inches on a side with a small hole (about one-half an inch in diameter), paint it for water proofing, and put a removable lid on top for later replacement with glass (for observation). Maybe put some grass or other stuffing in it to make it look like a mouse nest. 2. Using a veil and a net, begin excavating the nest. As bees enter and exit catch them with a net and put them in a bottle of sorts for temporary holding. (I'm not quite sure how to move them from the net to the bottle. Any suggestions? Obviously this is a critical concern here, at least to me.) 3. Upon reaching the nest, remove nest and place in box. 4. Take nest and bees to a new site several miles away and place on ground. Shake bees (quickly) from bottle into nest. (Should I leave the nest sealed for a short period of time? I probably won't.) 5. Several weeks later, bring box back home and use as an observation hive. Any information anyone can share with me will be greatly appreciated? Thanks in advance. Jeff Fagerman jafagerm@ingr.com (northern Alabama, USA) ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 30 May 1995 23:04:05 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Mike High Subject: Re: How to move a bumblebee nests? Well Jeff are you sure you really want to move those bumble-bees?They tend to have a nasty temper!If you must,I would recommend you NOT use a net as it would 1., harm the bees and 2., result in you probably getting stung a better plan would be to dig the whole thing up and dump it quickly into what ever you plan to use to observe them.While they may be upset in the short term,I think this would be much less stressful to you and the bees! ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 30 May 1995 23:07:36 +1030 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jean-Pierre Chapleau Subject: Re: Newly mated queen In-Reply-To: <199505270223.MAA15098@scuzzy.fmmo.ca> On Sat, 27 May 1995, David F. Verville wrote: > Several weeks ago, I started to make a new queen by putting a couple > of frames with eggs into a nuc box. > Two weeks ago I saw what I thought was the queen but she hadn't started > to lay yet. All of the brood had emerged. > Today at hign noon, with no smoke, I openned it again, (4X) > I did not see the queen but I did see eggs and some other STRANGE things! > First I should say that the bees were very content! (Red pollen again!) > > 1 There were three queen cells with two and three eggs inside. > 2 There were some cells with two or three eggs inside. > 3 There were cells with eggs attached to the very bottom but at the sides. > Some eggs where not at the bottom but half way up an the sides. > 4 There were many many cells where the egg was perfectly > centered as they should be. > 5 There where eggs outside the pollen/honey band. > > I am assuming that there is a mated queen, she just has not got her act > together or shall I assume a laying worker. > I guess I will really know a week from now as the cells get capped. > Any one ever see this before? > Dave Verville > > att!mvtowers!mvdfv > You have laying workers for sure. Eggs laid on the walls of the cells are laid only by laying workers. Laying workers most of the time also lay many eggs in the same cell (sometimes more than 10!). Queens in small mating nucs will sometimes lay again in the same cells when they do not find empty cells. Laying workers can also be present in queenright colonies. So you can have eggs laid by both a normal queen and by laying workers. It should be easy to check for the presence of a queen in a small mating nuc. _______________________________ ~ |_____JEAN-PIERRE CHAPLEAU______| ~ bee breeder |1282, rang 8, Saint-Adrien,| ~ | Quebec, Canada, J0A 1C0 | vice president of the Canadian Honey Council | phone: (819) 828-3396 | ~ ~ | fax: (819) 828-0357 | ~ ~ | chapleau@scuzzy.fmmo.ca | ~ ~ |______________________________~ ~ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 31 May 1995 08:31:07 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: RFC822 error: Incorrect or incomplete address field found and ignored. From: Jeff Fagerman Subject: Update on moving bumblebees Just a quick update for those of you interested. I posted a message yesterday concerning moving a bumblebee nest and received a couple of very helpful suggestions. Well, last night I moved the nest and it was remarkably simple. The most amazing thing, in my opinion, was the non-aggressive behaviour of the bees. (The hive size was just under twenty (20).) The bees obviously didn't like my presence or intrusion but neither did they attempt to sting me, even when I was grabbing them and placing them in a container for transport. It was a rather interesting evening. Thanks to each of you who responded to my initial message. Jeff Fagerman (jafagerm@ingr.com) ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 31 May 1995 09:32:52 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: akomeili@ENT1.ENT.NCSU.EDU Subject: membership to BEE-L Please put me on your broadcast list. Thank you A. B. Komeili, NCSU. Dept. of Entomology. Box 7626, Raleigh, NC. 27695-7626. E. Mail Address: akomeili@ent1.ent.ncsu.edu ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 31 May 1995 10:02:40 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Carl Mueller Subject: Strange Bees Can anyone help me identify a strange bee, which I have never observed before? I live in South Florida between Bellglade and West Palm Beach, near Lion Country Safari. I have seen ground nesting bees that are about the size of A. Mellifera. They have several horizontal dark bands seperated by a greenish, gray color. The lower part of the abdomen is bright yellow. I have observed them harvesting pollen and nectar from weeds and comming and going from their nest. These are very noisy bees and make a buzzing sound similar to that of drone. Carl Mueller Email: cmueller@emi.net West Palm Beach, Florida USA ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 31 May 1995 10:03:51 +0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: David Bernard Subject: Maryland State Beekeepers Association Summer Meeting Comments: cc: Beefriend@aol.com The Maryland State Beekeepers Association is holding a 2 1/2 day conference style summer meeting at Mt. St. Mary's College near Frederick, MD. All beekeepers are welcome to attend!! For registration,room and board information, contact: DAVID MORRIS, 9309 MONTPELIER DRIVE, LAUREL, MD. 20708-2553 OR E-MAIL RESERVATIONS TO Beefriend@aol.com (TELEPHONE: 301-725-6185) The cost of the meeting, room, and board for the entire weekend is about $125. Friday June 16, 1995 10:00 AM Welcome and Opening Remarks David Morris President, MSBA 10:15 AM Cucurbit Pollination Maryann Frazier State Apiculturist Penn State University 11:00 AM Problems Concerning Communication Dr. David Fletcher During Queen Replacement Bucknell University 11:45 AM - 1:00 PM Lunch 1:00 - 5:30 PM Honey Judging Workshop (runs concurrently with rest of program) 1:00 PM Honey Bee Viruses: Recent Discoveries Dr. Akey Hung in Maryland Research Entomologist USDA, Beltsville, MD 1:45 PM Feral and Commercial Honey Bee Dr. Nathan Schiff Populations in the U.S. Research Entomologist USDA, Beltsville, MD 2:30 PM BREAK 2:45 PM What Makes Honey Honey? Dr. Jill Snowden National Honey Board Consultant 3:30 PM Bee Aware System Maryann Frazier 4:15 PM BREAK 4:30 PM Open Hive Workshops (with live bees!) Hive Examination : Mock Master Beekeeper Field Exam Splitting Hives: Swarm Control and colony increase Indoor Workshop Making, Loading, Maintenance, and Use of Observation Hives 5:30 - 6:30 PM Dinner 7:00 PM Hive Hefting Contest - An aid in determining winter stores Master Beekeeper Panel - Question and Answer session of previous Master Beekeepers Examinations Beekeepers Social Saturday June 17, 1995 7:30 AM - 8:30 AM BREAKFAST 8:45 AM Opening Remarks David Morris 9:00 AM Why Summer Requeening Dr. Gordon Allen-Wardell and How to Make it Work 9:45 AM Keeping Warm, Keeping Cool Dr. Edward Southwick SUNY, College at Brockport 10:30 AM BREAK 10:45 AM Parasitic Mites: The Effect I. Barton Smith on Maryland Beekeeping State Apiary Inspector 11:15 AM Bee Navigation: Where's Home? Dr. Edward Southwick 12:00 PM - 1:00 PM LUNCH 1:30 PM What is IPM and How Can We Make it Dr. Gordon Allen-Wardell Work for Maryland Beekeeping? 2:15 PM Honey Adulteration Dr. Allen Brouse Analytical Chemist Columbia, MD 3:00 PM BREAK 3:15 PM Workshops - Repeated at 4:15 PM Open Hive Workshops (with live bees!) Producing Comb Honey: The Killion Method Inspector's Approach to Disease Inspection Methods of Feeding Honey Bees Medicating Bees: Proper Placement of Medications in the Hive Finding the Queen: Methods and Techniques Indoor Workshops Preparing Honey and Hive Products for Shows Marking Queens Marketing Honey Installation of Package Bees 5:30 - 6:30 DINNER 6:30 PM Bee Catching Contest! A must if you are to learn how to handle the Queen for marking! Sunday June 18, 1995 7:30 - 8:30 AM BREAKFAST 9:00 AM Opening Remarks David Morris 9:10 AM Indoor Workshops - repeated at 10 AM and 11 AM Cooking with Honey Allergies and Allergic Reactions to Bee Stings Bee Removal The Beekeepers Library Moving Bees Wax Working 12:00 AM CHECK OUT AND GOOD BYE David Bernard Vice President, Maryland State Beekeepers EAS Master Beekeeper USA ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 31 May 1995 09:12:33 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Doug Yanega Subject: Re: Strange Bees >Can anyone help me identify a strange bee, which I have never observed >before? I live >in South Florida between Bellglade and West Palm Beach, near Lion Country >Safari. I >have seen ground nesting bees that are about the size of A. Mellifera. They >have >several horizontal dark bands seperated by a greenish, gray color. The >lower part of >the abdomen is bright yellow. I have observed them harvesting pollen and >nectar from >weeds and comming and going from their nest. These are very noisy bees and >make a >buzzing sound similar to that of drone. > Carl Mueller Email: cmueller@emi.net > West Palm Beach, Florida USA >From the size, description of their noisiness, and "bright yellow lower part" the diagnosis is that they're probably leaf-cutter bees, in the genus Megachile. There are only around 100 native bees in South Florida, and Megachile are about as noisy as they get. They also carry pollen on the underside of the abdomen, which would make it appear bright yellow. There's a lesser possibility it's a Colletes or some other bee, which aren't nearly so voluble. If you're really curious, collect a few, as there's no other way to be sure. Cheers, Doug Yanega Illinois Natural History Survey, 607 E. Peabody Dr. Champaign, IL 61820 USA phone (217) 244-6817, fax (217) 333-4949 "There are some enterprises in which a careful disorderliness is the true method" - Herman Melville, Moby Dick, Chap. 82 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 31 May 1995 10:15:33 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Patrick M O'Hearn <73203.610@COMPUSERVE.COM> Subject: pesticide Hello All, Just ran across an associated press story I thought would be of general interest to the pollinators on line.. WASHINGTON (AP) -- A natural fungus could help growers of melons, cucumbers, tomatoes and other vegetables control infestations of whiteflies and use less chemical insecticide. In field tests, the fungus has performed as well or better than chemicals, according to Raymond I. Carruthers, a scientist with the Agriculture Department's research service in Weslaco, Texas. The fungus consistently reduced numbers of immature whiteflies by 80 percent to 90 percent in small field plots of cantaloupe, cucumber and tomato, he said. "We think most growers may need to use insecticide to knock down the first whitefly populations infesting spring-planted melons and other vegetables," Carruthers said. "Then they would spray just the fungus about every week or so, depending on how severe the infestation is." Whiteflies can cause huge crop losses. They have done their worst damage in Arizona, California, Florida and Texas. In California's Imperial Valley, officials estimate that whiteflies caused annual losses averaging $320 million and more than 5,000 jobs from 1991 through 1993, according to an article in the May issue of Agricultural Research, a USDA publication. Work on the fungus began in 1992 under a cooperative research and development agreement between USDA's Agricultural Research Service and Mycotech Corp. of Butte, Mont., according to the article. After evaluating 40 strains of fungus, field tests pointed to a Mycotech strain of Beauveria bassiana as the most promising first candidate for commercial production. Mycotech plans to market the strain in a wettable powder as Mycotrol-WP. The Environmental Protection Agency approved its commercial use in March. Supplies will be limited until a larger production plant begins operations next year, Mycotech Vice President Clifford Bradley said. The fungus is sprayed on fields in a solution that includes a wetting agent that helps fungus spores stick to leaves. When spores touch an immature whitefly, or nymph, they germinate and release natural chemicals that bore holes through the nymph's skin, or cuticle. Enzymes from the invading fungus dissolve the fly's fat reserves. Within days, the nymph weakens and dies. Larger field tests are planned this year in Arizona, California and Texas to refine integrated pest management strategies and allow farmers to get the most benefit from fungus applications and reduce insecticide use. One of the remaining questions is the effect the fungus has on natural populations of whitefly enemies like parasitic wasps. "So far, small field studies at Weslaco show the fungus has little effect on field populations of biocontrol insects," Carruthers said. "We'll examine this more closely." ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 31 May 1995 16:51:16 GMT Reply-To: Gordon@apis.demon.co.uk Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Gordon Scott Subject: Re: membership to BEE-L Comments: cc: socinsct@uacsc2.albany.edu, akomeili@ent1.ent.ncsu.edu > Please put me on your broadcast list. Thank you > A. B. Komeili, NCSU. Dept. of Entomology. Box 7626, Raleigh, > NC. 27695-7626. > E. Mail Address: akomeili@ent1.ent.ncsu.edu Mailed direct & to both lists. Send request to the administration address listserv@uacsc2.albany.edu containing the following three lines: subscribe bee-l subscribe socinsct help That will start the subscription process and send you a brief help file. regards, -- Gordon Scott Gordon@apis.demon.co.uk 100332,3310 on CompuServe Newsletter Beekeeper@apis.demon.co.uk ditto Beekeeper, Kendo Sandan, sometime sailor. Basingstoke, Hampshire, RG22 5HP, UK ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 31 May 1995 17:42:14 GMT Reply-To: ibra@matheson.demon.co.uk Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: ibra Subject: B.mail for June 1995 ===================================================== B-MAIL A monthly newsletter on issues and events in the bee world, provided by IBRA, the world information service for bee science and beekeeping. :From Andrew Matheson, Director **June 1995** ===================================================== ***************** IN THIS ISSUE ***************** * Bee disease reporting * IBRA on the web * Meeting details: USA, pollination, South Africa ********************************* BEE DISEASE REPORTING ********************************* If you're interested in bee diseases, especially if you're involved in control and prevention programmes, you should be aware of the OIE: the Office International des Epizooties (OIE), based in Paris. This body reports animal health information originating from delegates of OIE member countries (currently some 123 in number), with a view to subsequent publication in one of the organization's books or serials. For serious diseases with the potential for rapid spread the OIE acts as a reporting centre, with member countries required to notify the disease's presence within 24 hours. Setting up a system for reporting animal diseases was one of the main reasons for establishing the OIE some 70 years ago. Diseases were prioritized and placed on different lists, according to their level of severity. (No bee diseases are included in the highest category at present). Things have changed since the 1920s; some diseases that were initially high priority have lost significance, others have gained in importance and still others have emerged. Tools for disease control are stronger. There have been massive changes in the risks of disease transfer, thanks to improvements in global transportation. The reporting system of the OIE is currently being reviewed, and industry and regulatory personnel should be lobbying now to ensure that bee diseases are treated appropriately. The next meeting of the OIE standards commission will be in September 1995, and proposed changes to the categorization of diseases will be discussed and probably adopted. There are some limitations on the bee disease information published by the OIE. Only five bee diseases are considered of sufficient importance to warrant the systematic collection of data and the preparation of health recommendations for international trade in bees (AFB, EFB, nosema disease, and infestation with the mites Varroa jacobsoni and Acarapis woodi). This list omits the serious mite parasite Tropilaelaps clareae and other possibly significant parasites of the genera Tropilaelaps and Varroa, but includes one disease of practically universal distribution (nosema disease). The delegates of OIE member countries are, in general, the heads of government veterinary services in their respective countries. Differences exist in reporting standards for bee diseases: some member states may have a high level of bee health surveillance, while for others bees may be of much less importance. Some countries may even have to use their limited animal health resources to cope with formidable epizootic diseases, including ones with serious implications for human health. Not all countries are members, and of the members, not all furnish reports. Nevertheless, some OIE records are useful, especially where they cover gaps in the bee science literature, and OIE criteria underpin much of the certification which governs international movement of bees and bee products. For further information: International animal health code: mammals, birds and bees (OIE, Paris, 1992, 550 pp) Apicultural Abstracts reference 642/95. International animal health code: mammals, birds and bees - 1993 & 1994 updates. (OIE, Paris, 138 pp) Apicultural Abstracts reference 643/95. *********************** IBRA ON THE WEB *********************** During May the International Bee Research Association launched itself onto the Worldwide Web. The current pages introduce some of the information services available from this non-profit trust, and enable visitors to contact IBRA directly. Future developments will see all of IBRA's activities featured, and allow on-line browsing of lists of journals and books available from the organization. We will also provide links to other bee-related sites. Visit us at http://www.cardiff.ac.uk/ibra/index.html **************************** PROPOLIS RESEARCH **************************** Valuable byproduct or lunatic fringe medicine? As with many other hive products, propolis enjoys a somewhat mixed reputation. One UK-based company with a growing market for propolis products is Bee Health Ltd. The chairman, James Fearnley, has been instrumental in bringing together a number of researchers working on propolis to share information on their work, to try and stimulate scientific investigations into this substance. Members of the Oxford Propolis Research Group are currently investigating standards for propolis in the marketplace, anti-inflammatory properties, use of propolis in dentistry and for burns treatment, among other subjects. One possible future development is an e.mail newsgroup or discussion group. The contact is Robin Cooper, Rushlye, Sturt Road, Charlbury, OX7 3EP, UK. Phone (+44) 1608-810183. ********************************* POLLINATION SYMPOSIUM ********************************* The first circular is out for the seventh international symposium on pollination, organized by ICPBR (the International Commission for Plant-Bee Relationships) and Agriculture & Agri-Food Canada. I know from talking to Ken Richards, who is heading the organizing team, that both the scientific and recreational programmes will be full of interest. Get details from richards@abrsle.agr.ca. ************************************* SOUTH AFRICAN SYMPOSIUM ************************************* Developmental beekeeping in southern Africa will be the theme of a meeting on 3-4 November 1995. For more information write to PO Box 41, Modderfontein, Gauteng 1645, Republic of South Africa. ****************************** THE YEAR OF THE HIVE ****************************** One hundred years after the death of Langstroth, the year of the hive is the theme of the Eastern Apicultural Society conference. Beekeepers from the US and Canada, and probably further afield, will be converging on Wooster, Ohio, for the main meeting on 2-4 August 1995 and the short course from 31 July to 2 August. EAS meetings are always good, and the imaginative programme for this one promises to be a real winner. For more information write to EAS 95, 623 West Liberty Street, Medina, OH 44256 or phone (+1) 212 725-6677. **************************** AND THE FOUNDATION **************************** The EAS does a lot towards promoting bee research through its awards for scientists and students, and more recently with its foundation for honey bee research. To find out how to contribute to this worthwhile foundation, contact the EAS secretary, Box 300A County Home Road, Essex, NY 12936, USA. *************************************** MORE INFORMATION SERVICES *************************************** Fancy some banana worm bread, or rootworm beetle dip? For these and more tasty insect recipes, look at: http://www.public.iastate.edu/~entomology/InsectsAsFood.html Job opportunities in entomology can be found at: http://www.colostate.edu/Depts/Entomology/jobs.html and the entomology image gallery is: http://www.public.iastate.edu/~entomology/ImageGallery.html **************************** WHAT DOES IBRA DO? **************************** Last month I outlined briefly the aims of the International Bee Research Association. We achieve these aims primarily by providing the world's most comprehensive information service on bee science and beekeeping. IBRA publishes three highly-respected quarterly journals. Bee World: topical articles and reviews for beekeepers and scientists Journal of Apicultural Research : a wide range of original research papers Apicultural Abstracts: quick access to the world's beekeeping literature Our main library in Cardiff has a wealth of material on bees and beekeeping. Material can be copied or lent to members. IBRA's specialist mail-order service supplies publications on bees and beekeeping - from our own publishing house and others. All purchases help to support our charitable work. Conferences organized by IBRA bring together people with specific interests. Next month: a more detailed look at the journals. Andrew Matheson ***************************************************************************** ******* B.mail is copyright International Bee Research Association. Reproduction is welcomed provided it is not for commercial gain, you credit the source, and send a copy of any published material using B.mail material to the IBRA library. Return address: E.mail: ibra@cardiff.ac.uk Fax: (+44) 1222-665522 Telephone: (+44) 1222-372409 Snailmail: 18 North Road, Cardiff CF1 3DY, UK ***************************************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 31 May 1995 17:18:11 -0300 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: David De Jong Subject: sunflower pollination Subject: sunflower pollination Does anyone have information on sunflower pollination? How many colonies per acre for hybrid sunflower seed production? What are beekeepers getting per colony for rental? How long do colonies stay on the crop? David De Jong University of Sao Paulo Ribeirao Preto, SP Brazil ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 31 May 1995 20:36:49 GMT Reply-To: Gordon@apis.demon.co.uk Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Gordon Scott Subject: Re: clipping wings on queens Lucy Cronin writes: > A friend of mine has acquired some new Buckfast queens and would like to > clip their wings to prevent swarming. Is this a good idea? How does > one go about this? Thanks from both of us for all advice. I haven't seen a detailed response to this yet, so here goes: Clipping the wings of the queen will not actually stop the bees swarming (or trying to anyway). What it does is to confound their efforts for a while, usually giving the beekeeper a few more days to sort out the situation. I have seen photographs of clipped-queen colonies that have set up home under their old hive. I have heard stories of queens being physically carried by the workers. In principle, the bees take nine or ten days to get from an egg intended for a new queen to a swarm. At that time the queen cell gets capped, the old queen takes half the colony and goes. If she can't go because she can't fly, you have (maybe) until the first virgin before you lose your workers. You could either artificially swarm them, remove the queen and knock down all the cells but one, or knock down all the cells and see if they give up their plans. Many people in the UK (me included) use this latter approach -- personally, no more. That's the principle and mostly it works pretty well. The bees don't read the text books though (or if they do, their accountant is pretty sharp), because the timetable doesn't always work. Bees can convert any worker egg or young larva (up to about three days) into a queen (emergency queens). That can clip six days off of the total time, so the first virgin *could* emerge after only 10 more days. Worse, if you have an unclipped queen they could cap and swarm in only _four_ more days, and I know that only too well this year because five of my meagre six colonies tried precisely that. Three succeeded (but I caught two of the swarms), one failed because the queen was clipped and one was revisited after three days and just in time. It's been a funny old spring here ;-) Personally, I'm now convinced I should clip queens. It appears not to hurt them, although they can't be too keen on being flightless, but in the UK at least swarms are IMHO definitely not a good idea. How to do it? The best method I've seen so far is to catch her and hold her with her head towards the palm on the ball of your thumb, restraining her with your first and second finger. Cut off at least half of at least one wing with a good fine pair of scissors. _Don't cut her legs!!!_ A number of beekeepers here use clipping as a queen age indicator, they don't clip the year she emerges, clip one wing in year two and the other in year three. Regards, -- Gordon Scott Gordon@apis.demon.co.uk 100332,3310 on CompuServe Newsletter Beekeeper@apis.demon.co.uk ditto Beekeeper, Kendo Sandan, sometime sailor. Basingstoke, Hampshire, RG22 5HP, UK ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 31 May 1995 21:14:37 +1030 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jean-Pierre Chapleau Subject: Re: clipping wings on queens Comments: To: Gordon Scott In-Reply-To: <199505310657.RAA21489@scuzzy.fmmo.ca> On Wed, 31 May 1995, Gordon Scott wrote: > Personally, I'm now convinced I should clip queens. It appears not to > hurt them, although they can't be too keen on being flightless, but in > the UK at least swarms are IMHO definitely not a good idea. > > How to do it? The best method I've seen so far is to catch her and hold > her with her head towards the palm on the ball of your thumb, > restraining her with your first and second finger. Cut off at least > half of at least one wing with a good fine pair of scissors. > > _Don't cut her legs!!!_ > Watch out though! do not cut the wing too short. If you cut the wing completely, what is a clipped queen for you is a crippled queen for its bees. A crippled queen is superseded by the bees sooner or later. I talk by experience. _______________________________ ~ |_____JEAN-PIERRE CHAPLEAU______| ~ bee breeder |1282, rang 8, Saint-Adrien,| ~ | Quebec, Canada, J0A 1C0 | vice president of the Canadian Honey Council | phone: (819) 828-3396 | ~ ~ | fax: (819) 828-0357 | ~ ~ | chapleau@scuzzy.fmmo.ca | ~ ~ |______________________________~ ~