========================================================================= Date: Sat, 1 Jul 1995 01:53:46 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Dave Green, Eastern Pollinator Newsletter" Subject: Re: Why are our bees so weak and sickly? In a message dated 95-06-30 11:42:16 EDT, mws@TENET.EDU (Michael Stoops) wrote: >Also, if you keep your agent abreast of where >your bee yards are, you might get notification for the agency of >upcoming >spray schedules so that you can put screens on the entrances of your >hives and keep your bees in on the day of the proposed spray. It >also >helps if you communicate, and possibly give a jar of honey in the >fall, >with surrounding farmers and ask them to keep you updated with their >spray schedule so as to prevent further bee kills. A lot of work, I >know. But that might help prevent future drastic bee kills in you >yards. So you are willing to take total responsibility for *protecting* your bees, eh? That may be why we cannot get any action from public officials on this matter, because of so many beekeepers like you, who are so compliant to pre-FIFRA *solutions* that didn't work. It is obvious that you haven't have direct experience in this area. I certainly don't wish any bee kills on you, but I'm sure that after a few, you would begin to see differently. The pesticide label (if a material is hazardous to bees) specifically prohibits application if bees are foraging in the application area. That is the applicator's responsibility, and it is a legal requirement. If he applies on a blooming crop without knowing if bees are foraging, he is at least negligent, possibly wilful. If labels are carefully followed, bee kills drop to negligible levels. There is, of course the problem, that in circumventing the label directions by your proposal to let the beekeeper take responsibility, that no protection is afforded our pollinators that do not have a human caretaker. Oops, -there goes bumblebees, solitary bees, wild honeybees in trees ..... Lets try a couple scenarios, according to your plan: #1. You are a backyard beekeeper with three hives. Just as you are to leave for work, you get a call saying the spraying will commence in a half hour. You look out, and the bees are already foraging. You have accepted the responsibility for *protecting* them, and let the applicator off the hook on label directions (as if you COULD give him permission to spray illegally). You call your boss and explain to him, that you can't make it to work, because you've got to protect your bees. He's not happy about that, and you know that if you pull this again next week, you'll get fired. You begin to wonder how you are going to get the bees back inside the hives, so you can close them up. You close them up anyway, and the returning bees cluster on the outside. You open one up to let them back in, and a big bunch from inside leave, and they sure are sore about being penned up, so you catch a few stings. Then you realize that the bees are getting overheated, and are really getting excited. You realize that they are approaching meltdown. You get a bucket of water and douse the hives, because your hose isn't long enough. Then you run to buy a hundred feet of extra hose, because you don't want to have to lug water all day. Every time you go near the hives, the outside ones chase you around. Let's leave the rest of this scenario to your imagination, along with all the dead bees you'll find from the day's stresses.. #2 Let's say you are a commercial beekeeper in cotton country (-pretty much the whole southeast the last couple years). Your bees are located in over a hundred bee yards and pollination locations. You estimate that on any given day in July and August, as many as fifteen sites could be exposed to applications. You purchase 400 burlap sheets to cover the hives. You spend two weeks finding all cotton fields, and notifying growers and applicators, so they can call you. (Some will, some won't.) Some of them cuss you out and tell you to get your #@#$&*%# bees out of the area. You know in your heart that if you don't, they will be vandalized. But you don't know of any safe place to go. You hire and train 15 assistants, provide them with smokers, veils, etc. You have to find people that are willing to be in the field by 5am, so they can pen up bees before they begin to fly in hot weather. You get a tank for each, as big as a pickup can hold, so they can keep the hives cool by dousing them with water every half hour or so. Hopefully, each of your employees has his own pickup. Each one has to have a cellular phone, and you have to have a secretary to monitor the home phone, as spray schedules are apt to get changed at the last minute. You also need a roving 4x4, in case someone gets bogged. I am quite familiar with the second scenario, because it is mine. By following your suggesting of *protecting* the bees myself, I would spend more than my gross annual income in six weeks of summer spray season. -- All so the applicators could continue to ignore the label directions! Oh nuts... Your pollination clients are complaining that the crops didn't get pollinated, because you shut up the bees for 10% of the bloom season, and they want a hefty refund. Cotton acreage here has increased explosively in the last three years, and is exacting a very high environmental cost. There had to be many hundreds, possibly several thousand applications, in violation of bee directions on the labels, last season. I am a very observant person, especially of pollinators. In all the crops I have worked with this season, I've seen less than a dozen bumblebees. Yes - that is for the WHOLE season. I've seen only about a hundred solitary bees, again for the whole season. I went out of the cotton area a couple weeks ago, and saw a hundred solitary bees on melons, of at least five different species, in just a few minutes. Last year's pesticide damage has cost me more than half my income for this year. I gave up my entire spring honey crop, and my package and nuc sales, because I had to replace my own losses -- and I still would up with fewer hives than last year. And that's not counting all the extra feeding. Do you get the picture? I am not wanting to be unkind, but naive acceptance of pre-FIFRA thinking is wiping out wild pollinators, and making it impossible for commercial beekeeping in high pesticide use areas. You can see why I'm kind of intense about it. I refuse to abet a scheme to circumvent the law. I refuse to be the turkey at the turkey shoot. The only way beekeeping can survive is the implementation and enforcement of the pesticide label directions for bees. (FIFRA is the Federal Insecticide, Fungicide and Rotenticide Act of 1972) It, and corresponding state laws, recognized bees as an environmental resource and set aside the pre_FIFRA precedents that considered bees *trespassers*) But it has only been implemented, as regards to bees, in a very few cases in 23 years. Pollinator@aol.com Dave Green PO Box 1215, Hemingway, SC 29554 *All people can be divided into three groups: those who make things happen, those who watch what's happening, and those who haven't the faintest idea what's happening.* *Sometimes silence is golden; sometimes it is pale yellow.* ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 1 Jul 1995 02:13:14 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Dave Green, Eastern Pollinator Newsletter" Subject: Re: Wing length AHB In a message dated 95-06-30 18:59:36 EDT, dakall@RESEARCH.ATT.COM (D. Kall) wrote: >Could I do controlled acoustic measures on an AHB in the lab and >distinguish it from a regular honeybee? Howard Kerr, at the Oak Ridge lab in Tennesee, had an electronic sensor that could distinguish AHB's. I thought he was going to market it, but I haven't heard anything more. My last letter came back adress unknown, so he's moved. Anyone know where? Maybe somehow you could connect, so you won't duplicate work already done. Pollinator@aol.com Dave Green PO Box 1215, Hemingway, SC 29554 ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 2 Jul 1995 00:20:16 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jerry J Bromenshenk Subject: Re: Wing length AHB In-Reply-To: <950701021313_82129414@aol.com> from "Dave Green, Eastern Pollinator Newsletter" at Jul 1, 95 02:13:14 am How Howard Kerr is still at Oak Ridge, I talked to him Friday. He has joined the TN legislature (he kept his day job) and has been travelling the globe, working in remote locations such as Russia. He still has the same telephone number and I assume the same work address. Didn't ask the status of his acoustic device. As I understand, the idea is that size of bee affects wing beat frequency. However, I found out years ago and Erik Erickson and others found that European bees vary more in size than generally acknowledged. Erickson found that the foundation supplied by various distributors of bee equipment has different cell sizes. I found that bees vary so much that some colonies can squeeze through a hole 1/16 of an inch smaller than others. Thus, Howard's device may give false readings - although I have not asked him about this. My guess, it works for clear cut differences, how good it is for discriminating slight differences is something he would have to address. Oh yes, Howard also was the motivating force behind development of the solar powered infra-red transmitter that a bee can carry (sort of a radio collar for bees). He is a font of creative ideas. Hope this helps find him. Jerry Bromenshenk The University of Montana jjbmail@selway.umt.edu ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 2 Jul 1995 09:14:22 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jim Hutchins Subject: Whatever Happened To... Has anyone seen Entomo-L lately? I used to subscribe, many years ago, but cannot find either Entomo-L or Ent-List. Are there any more recent replacements? Jim Hutchins ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 2 Jul 1995 08:57:14 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Subject: Re: Bumblebee problem In-Reply-To: <3071@apis.demon.co.uk> On Fri, 30 Jun 1995, Gordon Scott wrote: > David Morris writes: > > > I have a friend in England who has discovered a bumblebee nest in a rubbish > > heap in her backyard. I told her about Slayden's book, "The Humble Bee", and > > suggested she get the book and make this her daughter's science project. > > Let's hope she likes the idea. She is concerned that they may become a > > nuisance later. Plus, they are in a heap of yard trash which she may > > eventually consider unsightly. > > No problem, they will disperse later in the year anyway, so if they're > not an actual problem now, watch & enjoy. > > > > Question: Can she move this nest easily? > > They can be dug out (Sladen describes it). They make a lot of fuss but > don't *tend* to sting. They probably should be moved a mile of so at > minimum. They can be put into a mini-hive about 8inch cube with a small > hole (1/2 inch) in one face. Again Sladen describes some designs. Instead of moving away a long distance and then back, I should assume, that if they are like honeybees, that it would suffice to put the new home right where the entrance to the old location was. When they have learned to use the new entrance, proceed to move the box a foot the first day, several feet the second and even more on subsequent days, until it is where you want it. Once they recognise the new home and learn that it moves, they will find it. (I think - I know honeybees do.) Allen W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper VE6CFK Rural Route One Swalwell Alberta Canada T0M 1Y0 Email: dicka@cuug.ab.ca or allend@internode.net Futures, Art & Honey:http://www.cuug.ab.ca:8001/~dicka ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 2 Jul 1995 09:11:01 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Subject: Optimal Honeybee size range and significance (if any) In-Reply-To: <9507020620.AA27958@selway.umt.edu> On Sun, 2 Jul 1995, Jerry J Bromenshenk wrote: > I found out > years ago and Erik Erickson and others found that European bees vary more > in size than generally acknowledged. Erickson found that the foundation > supplied by various distributors of bee equipment has different cell > sizes. I found that bees vary so much that some colonies can squeeze > through a hole 1/16 of an inch smaller than others. Okay! Jerry you bring up the most fascinating subjects. Here's one I have always wondered about. I have a read over the years that it is a good idea to try to have larger bees by changing brood comb regularly so that the cell size is not reduced with old cocoons -- and even by obtaining stock that is purported to be bigger. I have always somehow doubted this, being aware that if we doubled the size of the bee, we would have a different critter. Because of simple geometric facts, doubling the bee size would increase the mass by a factor of 8. Volume varies as dimensions cubed (In this case 2 X 2 X 2) and the wing surface by 4 (2 X2). If we tripled the size, we would have 27 times the present mass, but only 8 times the wing surface. Such a bee would have trouble lifting itself off the ground empty, let alone laden, unless other factors of scale cut in. I think lift from wing is more or less linear with area. (Velocity of wing movement might be lower due to the fact that larger muscles tend to be slower, but then again, wingbeat might be faster due to lighter load caused by less area and the fact that the muscle mass would increase faster than the wing area as size of bee was increased). This can bee a complex engineering problem. Heat dissipation, circulation, skeletal strength and other many other factors would have to be considered too -- including the size of the flowers they visit. Of course these are extreme examples, but they illustrate a problem related to scale that is often neglected when discussing the degree of change that is possible by the above suggested methods. And nonetheless, they are operational even in small changes of bee size, I would expect. Of course someone will say that bumblebees manage to fly even though they vary in size quite drastically. But of course thay are engineered very differently and perhaps there is an optimal size for the bumblebee design. Maybe the smallest size is best and the queens are less effective foragers? Or maybe the queens are ideal and the early season foragers are sub optimal? Or maybe the design is detuned and the optimal range extends over all sizes encoutered in practice? Back to the honeybee: There have also been attempts to select for specific body parts being larger: a longer tongue without other size differences would appear to me to be a good improvement. But then, the tongue does have to fit into the head, so I guess nothing can be changed without affecting something else (balance, space in the head for other parts, etc.) At any rate, I'll get to the point here: The 'experts' all say that smaller bees are not good. One should change the combs regularly. I have a confession to make: I have changed only maybe 10% of my brood combs over the *entire* last 10 years and my crops are getting bigger and my wintering sucess and incidence of diseases is better every year. At present, the only brood combs that are culled are the ones that won't stay in the frame and the ones that are too warped to use next to as flat frame. We do add some good brood combs from supers and a bit of foundation each year. We use excluders on every hive and any comb that is no good for brood goes up there. Our supers have lots of dark comb and our honey always grades water white. (Except for an amber flow that came in last fall) When I changed brood combs regularly the bees did not do so well. Personally, I think that the bees do something to brood combs that are in the nest . That something disappears when they are rearranged or left unused for a long time. In order to do whatever it is, they require hot weather and a flow. That's why I never disturb the arrangements of brood chambers after August in any hive I wish to winter. If I do, they winter badly and fail to build up in the spring. * * * * * * * * * I heard this also from the chief inspector I worked for years ago - the late Roger Topping. He told of the time he went to work on his bees - he only kept 100 hives, just enough to keep his hand in. He went out in the fall - September - to ensure that the stores were correctly asrranged for winter and went through about half the hives, placing the feed whered the feed belongs, the pollen where the pollen belongs, the empty comb where the empty comb belongs, the cluster where the cluster belongs, etc. But then he was called a way and never finished. When he returned, it was cold out and he had to just wrap them and hope. In the spring, he was astounde to find that the half he had 'helped' suffered something like 50% loss and the ones he had not been able to get to had virtually all survived. * * * * * * * * * Lately I read that varroa require a certain space beside the larva to decide to move into a cell. I think I recall that people are even trying different cell sizes to deal with this. (Smaller cells?) I would like to hear some discussion on this from anyone who has any insights. Allen W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper VE6CFK Rural Route One Swalwell Alberta Canada T0M 1Y0 Email: dicka@cuug.ab.ca or allend@internode.net Futures, Art & Honey:http://www.cuug.ab.ca:8001/~dicka ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 2 Jul 1995 09:48:01 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: phyllis wainwright Subject: Why are my bees hanging out front? I'm a new beekeeper this year. I've been reading Bee-L for several months and know someone out there has an answer to my question. I have two hives. One seems to be acting normally. The other doesn't seem ro follow the book. The bees in one hive are hanging all over the front of the hive body. I've added suppers (without queen extruder) the make more space and it helps for a short time. I've raised the top of the hive to increase vetilation and that hasn't helped. The population in the hive has increased considerably over the past three months so I've got an active queen, I'd guess. The weather here in North Carolina has been very wet this past month. Rain almost every day and hot and sticky. I'm wondering if the temperature and high humidity could be the problem. The other hive doesn't seem to have the large population that the hive in question has. Oh, it has some tenants hanging around the front porch too but nearly as many as the hive in question. Anyone got any ideas as to what's happening. P B Wainwright N4CKM Creedmoor, N.C. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 2 Jul 1995 10:30:19 -0800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Richard Spear Subject: Re: Why are my bees hanging out front? > I have two hives. One seems to be acting normally. The other doesn't > seem ro follow the book. The bees in one hive are hanging all over the > front of the hive body. I've added suppers (without queen extruder) > the make more space and it helps for a short time. I've raised the top > of the hive to increase vetilation and that hasn't helped. The > population in the hive has increased considerably over the past three > months so I've got an active queen, I'd guess. The weather here in > North Carolina has been very wet this past month. Rain almost every > day and hot and sticky. I'm wondering if the temperature and high > humidity could be the problem. I'm no expert, but ... my bees do the same here in southern California. I think the bees are trying to reduce the hive temperature ... the bees themselves contribute all of the heat and moving out to the front of the hive reduces temperatures inside. You might even see them fanning at the entrance to help lower the temperature. My bees always do this and there hasn't been any associated problems. Maybe someone with more experience has a more informative answer. Regards, Richard rspear@primenet.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 2 Jul 1995 13:32:07 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Michael Stoops Subject: Re: Swarm under established hive In-Reply-To: Rich, You might try something that I've always wanted to do, that is to have a 2 queen hive. To do that, put a queen excluder over the brrod chambers in the present hive, place your supers over that, then place another queen excluder over the supers with another brood chamber (or two) above the second queen excluder. You then place the bees from under the bottom board in the topmost section of brood chambers. Drill a hole below one of the handles to provice a second means of access for the top colony. You might also place a sheet of newspaper between the top section of hive bodies and the second queen excluder to provide an aclimation time for the two colonies. If you do this, please let me know how things turned out. MIKE STOOPS Sugar Land, TEXAS mws@tenet.edu On Mon, 19 Jun 1995, Rich Petke wrote: > I need some advice - > > I have what appears to be a small after swarm attached to the underside > of the bottom board of one of my hives. (My bottom boards rest on top > of cement blocks.) The swarm is not from the hive that it's attached to > as that hive has not swarmed. It might be from another hive in the yard > but I doubt it as all of the other hives seem to be very strong. So far > the swarm under the hive seems to be co-existing with the hive. > > My question relates to how I should handle the situation. Given that I > have a colony above the swarm that would have to be moved (or otherwise > contended with) in order to access the swarm. Any suggestions? > ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 2 Jul 1995 14:31:00 GMT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Andy Nachbaur Organization: WILD BEE'S BBS (209) 826-8107 LOS BANOS, CA Subject: purple loosestrife ---------------------------------------- B>From: bb22@cornell.edu (Bernd Blossey) >To: Andy Nachbaur >Date: Fri, 30 Jun 1995 13:04:31 -0400 >Subject: purple loosestrife B>Dear Beefriend, B>I have read your tirade against the proposed release of biological control >agents against the wetland weed purple loosestrife. I have been working on >biological control of purple loosestrife for almost a decade but such a >conglomerate of ignorance and special interest concerns has never crossed >my path. Hello Dr. Blossey, It is interesting that you of all people would single me out for personal attack. It may be true that my opinion on this Environmental Assessment is a "conglomerate of ignorance", I am not a scientist, or do I have a doctorate. It is also true that I am a beekeeper and if anything is special about being a beekeeper and this EA it is that beekeepers will be damaged because wildflower pasture bees depend on will be damaged. My concerns are just as valid to me and my 46 years of experience with bees as yours are to you with your 10 years of research on Purple Loosetrife. Some would say that your position is also one of the "special interest", or the elite groups, considering that this EA relies disproportionately on your own research and opinion seeing that 6 of the 17 references listed to support the EA have your name on them. I would venture a guess that you are in no small part dependent on public monies to do your research and must convince others that your research has great value in order to generate support including special interest groups. I am not bothered or burdened by such problems. I love my work, I love my boss, I have never had a real job, I am a lifelong self employed beekeeper 58 years old with an 46 years interest in bees, beekeeping, and beekeepers and 41 years supported only by the bees. >I would recommend you become familiar with the published >literature (just because you don't know about scientific studies >demonstrating the negative effects of purple loosestrife does not mean >there aren't any!!). I also recommend you become familiar with biological >control as a safe and environmentally sound method to control exotic plants >(used in the United States for over a century with great success), where >success is measured in overall costs and benefits, not only considering a >special interest group. I have seen no statements that claim that Purple Loosetrife is not a problem, though some DO NOT believe that there is scientific evidence that it is as bad as other's say it is. The reduction of bee pasture is not a positive benefit to honey bee's or other insects. The destruction of non target native wildflowers is not a positive benefit to anyone but those with special interests. The lack of control after the release of the plant pests is not a positive benefit and the fact that they can not be confined to the target plant, and target area is not a positive effect. The total lack of financial responsibility by those who would release these plant pests if their opinions and research were wrong and the new plant pests were to become destructive on other wildflowers or crops is not a positive benefit but a real risk. B>And your hate speech against the government (here represented as the Fish >and Wildlife Service) acting against the interests of the public is not >only dangerous it is simply wrong. The alliance across the entire North >American continent fighting against exotic weeds (including purple >loosestrife) involves concerned environmentalists (individuals and groups) >as well as hunters, fishermen and local, state and federal agencies. I >agree that often beekeepers are on the other side of the fence since these >introduced exotics are an abundant forage source for bees. However, we >have to weigh the overall health of our ecosystems against special >interests, and sorry for you, bees and beekeepers are a special interest >group (that at least in part were creating the purple loosestrife problem >by spreading plants and seeds). Plants, bees and beekeepers will not be >eradicated but some beneficial effects that an exotic plant may have for >bees does not outweigh the overall negative environmental effects. All >this has been determined for purple loosestrife and very clearly, control >of purple loosestrife is desirable. To punish all beekeepers, and that part of the public the views Purple Loosetrife as an attractive wildflower and garden plant because you as a scientist have scientific evidence that one or more beekeepers were responsible for it's spread is beyond my understanding of the laws of the United States, and surely demonstrates your personal bias that may be reflected in your own scientific work and should be of interest and a consideration if anyone should rely on your work or opinion in making comment on this EA. B>You might not like this result but considerable effort was spent to >consider all affected parties. Your tirade against government and the >proposed action is based on your gut feeling instead of considering the >facts. Putting it into hate speech does make a rational discussion rather >difficult. Fortunately, I have experienced a deeper understanding of this >issue among your fellow beekeepers in the past. I have been a active beekeeper all my life, I never heard of you before receiving this interesting letter with your comments on my opinions. If you have have made presentation's to beekeepers in California, Arizona, Colorado, or North Dakota it is new's to me..The fact is that this project and it's EA was only by accident presented to me because someone else found the announcement and posted it on the internet highway. I know of NO beekeeper who received notice of the comment period for this EA from any government agency. But the facts are that these non native plant pests that are proposed to be released according to the EA are expected to damage other native wild flowers other then the target host plants. It is also a fact that there will be absolutely no control on these plant pests once they are released and they can be expected to damage native wildflower on private lands and private and public gardens as well as the land controlled by the government agency's involved in a short time of their release. I do not say that to control Purple Loosetrife is not a worthy project, I am sure you and your friends believe that it is. It is apparent that at least one other also feels that to release these plant pests may not be appropriate or there would not have been an alternative plan to release NO new plant pests. I do say the costs to the bee pasture lost are not small and the risks are great, and based on to little science and to much opinion. My opinion is that if you were to to take these five plant pests and make them into a Chemical compound called "Purple Loosetrife Killer" you would have little if any expectations of registration and use using the research done for the plant pests. Why should the standards be lowered because these are biological plant pests and not chemical products when the risks are the same? It is not good enough to stand or hide behind words like environmentally friendly or ecologically or biologically safe and then admit scientific studies show that non target native wildflowers will suffer and may become endangered because of the release of these plant pests. And wildflower pasture for honey bees and other insects will be damaged. In my opinion this is false advertising of the lowest kind, no different then any chemical salesperson would do hawking his brand of products. Your personal attack on me, and my opinions are not what I expect from any one in the scientific community and does not add creditability to your own work or opinion, or profession, but I will certainly add them to my own comments on the Environmental Assessment of the Proposed Release of these plant pests as they should be considered for what they are, opinion NOT science, as well are my own comments. My personal opinion is that the value of the lost pasture for bees and other insects will grater then the benefits of the release of these plant insects that only will cause both a visual and real degrading of public and private lands by damaging the targeted host plant Purple Loosetrife, a naturalized wildflower of great beauty that is also used in gardens with a long, 100 years or more history in the US, and non target native wildflowers related to it. It is also my opinion that this Environmental Assessment places to much reliance on the opinions and hopes of too few scientists that politically correct species will replace the damaged Purple Loosetrife and native wildflowers that will be killed. I also believe that to rely on the testing of only 50 species of plants for damage by these plant insects is less then adequate to guarantee that these pests will not attack other native wildflowers or agricultural crops. The fact is that if these new plant pests were to attack any other plant or crops there is no plan to control them or remunerate those who suffer loss, and those who would release them would have no lability for their mistakes and bad judgements. The release of these new pest insects is not a reversible act and should not be allowed. In my opinion the risks far outweigh any advantage stated in the Environmental Assessment and ALTERNATIVE A (No Action) is clearly the only environmentally and ecologically safe plan. ttul Andy- PS. I LOVE the United States of America. I support the government and I vote and express my opinion anytime I feel I can make a difference. I have personally met and expressed and made my opinions known to one president of the United States and several more want to bees. I am the only beekeeper to have ever served on the Commodity Advisory Committee of the University of California, Berkley, California to advise the University President on Agricultural Research and Extension. My x wife still serves and has for many years on a similar committee of the University of Arizona. I served my 10 years in the service and have a Honorable Discharge. I do not hate anyone, or any branch, agency, or bureaucrat of the United States or any State. I have learned by much grass roots political experience that personal attacks on myself for my personal opinions usually signal weak facts and opinions by those who do the attacking and they usually do not come out winners, win or lose.... I do not represent any beekeeping group, militia, or posse, and my opinions have no more real value then the space they take up. The value other's place on them is beyond my control. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 2 Jul 1995 13:50:22 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Michael Stoops Subject: Re: mosaic In-Reply-To: <950622092415_75977896@aol.com> For short distances, under half an hour, I used window screen wedges placed in the intrance to restrict egress of the hive bees. I also moved my hives at night. The screen wedge was formed by bending screen wire that is of equal width as the entrance width in half, then bending a small upward facing lip on the edge of the top side of the folded screen. The depth of the screen, when inserted into the hive, went over half way to the back of the hive. Hope this explanation is clear enough for you to construct if you like the idea. If not, e-mail me at mws@tenet.edu. MIKE STOOPS On Thu, 22 Jun 1995, Dave Green, Eastern Pollinator Newsletter wrote: > In a message dated 95-06-22 08:40:49 EDT, rosenlk@FREENET.UFL.EDU (Kelley > Rosenlund) wrote: > > >2. When you move your hives from field to field, do you screen the > >hive > >entrance to keep the bees in? > > I can't help with the question about mosaic, but would be extremely > interested in others' responses. > > Re: your second question. In hot weather it is extremely risky to close > up hives. When they discover they can't get out, they become exited. That > creates more heat, which gets them more excited. You can get a runaway chain > reaction, which can actually melt down comb. Of course before that happens > brood is dead, and the bees will probably not be able to recover from the > loss without heroic salvage methods. You'll have to remove the dead brood, > feed heavily, and watch to see if the queen was damaged or lost. > > Late afternoon/evening, when bees are basically done flying, is the best > time to load, and morning is the best time to unload, if it can be planned > that way. As long as the truck is moving, even in daylight, bees will not > fly unless they are dangerously overheated. Be liberal about hosing down the > load. For long distance hauls crushed ice is also a possibility. Put it on > top, so it drips down among the hives. > > If you can net the whole load (some states require this), it is far better > than closing up individual hives. But be prepared for some mighty mean bees > when you pull the net. I like to unnet the load first, then move a couple > hundred feet to get away from the irate ones before unloading the hives. > > If you must close up hives, and the weather is hot, you need to have top > screens to replace the covers. Hope this helps. > > Pollinator@aol.com Dave Green > PO Box 1215 > Hemingway, SC 29554 > ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 2 Jul 1995 18:29:10 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Boyd C Dickens Subject: Re: Nectar Crops Thanks for your information. I'll use the phacelia seeds with my clover seeds. Thanks again. By the way I'm planting twenty acres. Boyd ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 2 Jul 1995 18:29:07 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Boyd C Dickens Subject: Re: Nectar Crops Thank you for your information. I think I'll use some Hyssops on the borders of my clover fields. Thanks again. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 2 Jul 1995 19:48:30 -0300 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Diane Cooper Subject: Re: Nectar Crops In-Reply-To: <950702182653_24072997@aol.com> For the request about Entomo-l, the last address I have is: listserv@vm.uoguelph.ca subscribe ENTOMO-L Firstname Lastname D. Cooper ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 2 Jul 1995 20:54:13 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Boyd C Dickens Subject: Tree full of bees I have a locust tree full of bees across the road from my farm. The bees enter the tree at ground level and seem to be a large colony. I tried to lure the bees out with a hive full of honey comb but had no luck. Does anyone know of a better way to lure the bees out. The tree encompasses the electric line and can not be easily removed. Any responses would be greatly appreciated. Thanks again for your help. Boyd C Dickens BCDickens@AOL.COM ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 2 Jul 1995 20:56:09 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Brian Tassey Subject: Re: Why are my bees hanging o... PB, What you have is what I like to call a "Boomer", be happy it's a sign of strength and productivity. They are hanging out to not cause a decrease in the air flow throughout the hive and to remove their hot bodies from inside. The muggy weather you spoke of is the time that you should really see them hanging out. About adding the supers to the top without an excluder, check to see if the bees are putting brood in the upper boxes and leaving the lower ones empty. They want to lay going up and have to coaxed to lay the lower boxes by excluder or "honey barrier". If the lower boxes are not being used it's really a waste of your equipment (even though you look really great to you b-keeping buddies) and you could be spreading out the brood-nest into a long thin (2-4 frames) section in the center of all the boxes. This makes for a bunch of manipulation (possible queen smoosh) later on in the fall to achieve a compact brood-nest. I'm not familiar with your area but if you can keep the queen down to the bottom 2 deeps or a deep and a shallow that's plenty of room to lay eggs and you always know where she is. Here in CA alot of hives are running with the queen confined to a single deep. That gives room for eggs and keeps the hive compact for pollination purposes. Hope that helps. Brian Tassey Kaykin@aol.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 2 Jul 1995 20:56:10 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Brian Tassey Subject: Re: "MITE SOLUTION" Allen, I've tried rubbing that goo on them but they're too damn squirmmy. But, I can say that I have never had a high v-mite count on my body since trying. Enjoy your humor! Brian Tassey Alta Apiaries Merced, CA Kaykin@aol.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 2 Jul 1995 20:53:06 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Brian Tassey Subject: Re: Vetch Steve, You probably are referring to Common Purple Vetch. It's used in forage blends for hay and silage. In my area (San Joaquin Valley CA) it is mostly an "escaped" plant not cultivated much anymore. Good news though, it produces well here. I just got back from a vacation in your area and with the temps the way they are I wouldn't be surprised if it produced for you. Here the flow doesn't really get going until the plants blooming cycle in on the downward side (begins to dry up if non-irrigated) and it lasts about 3 weeks. I don't have any experience with vetch in an irrigated setting. How about the wild alfalfa that dots the roadways and range areas where you live, does it produce? I couldn't really smell the nectar so I figured it didn't. Here's another question for you and the others out there: Why is it that the Alfalfa seed fields seemed to be only pollinated by Leaf Cutters and very few Honey Bees. In my area pollination of seed fields is mostly by Honey Bees. Hope this helps. Brian Tassey Kaykin@aol.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 2 Jul 1995 22:12:21 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "La Reine de la Cite' des Phoques (Liz Day)" Subject: loosestrife continued From: Andy Nachbaur >From: bb22@cornell.edu (Bernd Blossey) I am not a scientist, or do I have a doctorate. It is also true that I am a beekeeper and beekeepers will be damaged because wildflower pasture bees depend on Andy, (sorry, I couldnt' keep shut on this!) I'm sure you are right that reduction of the loosestrife population will hurt honey collection. Some would say that your position is also one of the "special interest", or the elite groups, considering that this EA relies disproportionately on your own research and opinion seeing that 6 of the 17 references listed to support the EA have your name on them. I would venture a guess that you are in no small part dependent on public monies to do your research and must convince others that your research has great value in order to generate support including special interest groups. This really bristles me backwards. Don't beekeepers also receive the benefits of some research done with public money? You have the bias backwards - people become scientists because they find these matters (ecology, etc.) important - not for the money. I bet you didn't become a beekeeper just for the money either. Nobody is getting rich on ecological research grants, trust me! Further, I and the fairly large number of people who care about America's indigenous ecology really, really resent being called a special interest group. Maybe I am in a minority. But I resent it anyway. A LOT. destruction of non target native wildflowers is not a positive benefit to anyone but those with special interests. It's not a benefit to anyone at ALL. It's a tradeoff. The loss of honeybee pasture is a tradeoff too. I am sorry as I know beekeepers do not need any more problems than they have now. The total lack of financial responsibility by those who would release these plant pests if their opinions and research were wrong and the new plant pests were to become destructive on other wildflowers or crops is not a positive benefit but a real risk. Well..... one could equally argue that you as a beekeeper care only for your own monetary interest and care nothing for the USA's disappearing wild land. I hope this is not so. some beneficial effects that an exotic plant may have for >bees does not outweigh the overall negative environmental effects. I agree. My personal opinion is that the value of the lost pasture for bees and other insects will grater then the benefits of the release of these plant insects [rest deleted] I hold out for the insect release. Liz Day LDAY@indy.net Indianapolis, Indiana, USA ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Jul 1995 07:45:41 -0400 Reply-To: John Moyer Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: John Moyer Subject: Re: Wing length AHB In-Reply-To: <9507020620.AA27958@selway.umt.edu> On Sun, 2 Jul 1995, Jerry J Bromenshenk wrote: > Didn't ask the status of his acoustic device. As I understand, the idea > is that size of bee affects wing beat frequency. However, I found out > years ago and Erik Erickson and others found that European bees vary more > in size than generally acknowledged. Erickson found that the foundation > supplied by various distributors of bee equipment has different cell > sizes. I found that bees vary so much that some colonies can squeeze > through a hole 1/16 of an inch smaller than others. Thus, Howard's > device may give false readings - although I have not asked him about this. > The issue of identification of Africanized bees was discussed in an article appearing in the July 1987, American Bee Journal by H. Allen Sylvester and Thomas E. Rinderer titles the "Fast Africanized Bee Identification System (FABIS) Manual." The particular distinction they point out is the hybrid nature of the Africanized bees and that morphometric variations within a colony are to be expected. Their FABIS measurement procedures provide a field test where wing & comb measurements define Africanized, European, or a "gray area" where samples are suspicious of being Africanized and would merit lab testing. If the frequencies of the wing beats are a function of size, a morphometric analysis scheme similar to FABIS should provide an appropriate field identification system based on wing beat frequencies. Has there been any activity to generate such a system? John Moyer ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Jul 1995 09:08:36 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jackie O'Keefe Subject: My Two Cents Re: purple loosestrife Comments: cc: awd@ddg.com 1) I only started reading this list a couple of weeks ago. It's very interesting, informative and lively. I wish I had started looking at it sooner. 2) I'm not a beekeeper, and never have been one... yet. I would like to start one of these days. 3) I've already learned a lot, and hope to learn much more. There's an attitude of mutual support which is nice to see. 4) If this is a moderated list, it seems like time for someone to suggest moderation; if not, maybe it's time to stop responding to Andy Nachbaur and get on to more rational things. The arguments here are NOT about militarism and authoritarianism. This is a SCIENCE question. The personal and hearsay arguing just makes a lot of angry, frustrated readers. Stick to science - facts, reasoning. It's already established that the plant is highly invasive and disturbs habitat, bees won't be left without forage if some purple loostrife is eliminated, and that eradication is not even an expected outcome. (Please excuse the editorialism, but Andy's arguments for his bees seem uni-faceted and petulant in the face of a complex problem.) The question is about the efficacy of using the insects being suggested, the risk of unanticipated effects, and how radically the die-off will affect the immediate environment. Can we address those considerations? I was curious to know more about the insects being considered? ARE they the same ones used in the Canadian control effort? Have they been used anywhere else? What do the previously mentioned studies have to say? Etc. Jackie O'Keefe Austin, Tx. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Jul 1995 11:08:35 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Dave Green, Eastern Pollinator Newsletter" Subject: Bees, Andy, & loosestrife Comments: To: surfergirl@ddg.com SurferGirl@DDG.COM (Jackie O'Keefe): >1) I only started reading this list a couple of weeks ago. It's very interesting, informative and lively. I wish I had started looking at it sooner. >2) I'm not a beekeeper, and never have been one... yet. I would like to start one of these days. Dear Jackie: Welcome aboard! I hope that you will soon get your own hives (better to start with two, than with one) and join the club. If there is anything I can do to help and encourage you, let me know. We need more beekeepers. I am a commercial beekeeper, who specializes in pollination of farm crops. (If your melon is sweet, the grower got bees from me!) I see the tremendous environmental loss of wild pollinators and the fading of the beekeepers, who might be able to substitute for the loss. So come on in, the water's fine! -Well, at least, we need you. > If this is a moderated list, it seems like time for someone to suggest moderation >(Please excuse the editorialism, but Andy's arguments for his bees seem uni-faceted and petulant in the face of a complex problem. Re: Andy's opinionated tomes: Andy has paid his dues. I, for one, would hate to see him edited, as I always gain some new perspectives from his outbursts. He is a very smart man, self educated, and comes up with a lot of stuff the run-of-the-mill guys, like me would miss. He was one of the originators of computor networking for beekeepers; he has invested enormous time and financial resources to help get this type of communication off the ground. I don't always agree with Andy, of course; but please don't try to sanitize the group to your standards, at least until you've been around awhile -and paid your dues. Sometimes it can be a bit of a free-for-all; I've got my own bruises to show for it, but, hey, that's the route to learning! I have got to say that I am fence sitting on loosestrife. I was the original source of the post, because I knew it would be of interest to the group, but I have refrained from comment. I know the plant is invasive and has caused problems. I also doubt that the process can be reversed, and wonder how much of this program will wind up to be just spitting into the wind. I find myself quite resentful of the "experts" who glibly say *there are other nectar sources,* with no real experience or understanding of the struggles the beekeepers are having to survive. Loosestrife, should this program succeed, is not only a valuable nectar source when there is little else available, it is also one that is rarely contaminated with insecticides. Dave Green Pollinator@aol.com PO Box 1215, Hemingway, SC 29554 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Jul 1995 11:41:06 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Kelley Rosenlund Subject: Re: Why are my bees hanging out front? Hello Phyllis, I am also a greenhorn to beekeeping. My first hive also did that after a good downpour. I talked to a keeper friend & he said thay were just cleaning the hive. Sure enough, flakes of paint started to appear on the front porch of the hive a couple days later. Enjoy. God Bless, Kelley Rosenlund rosenlk@freenet.ufl.edu In the metropolis of Gainesville, Florida, U.S.A. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Jul 1995 14:20:21 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Myron Van de Ven Subject: Bee Behavior I am in my second year of keeping two hives and have successfully carried them over the winter. Both hives are going very strong and I go through the hives weekly to find the queen cells so they don't swarm. I have notices that one of the hives is much more aggressive to my presence than the other hive. They have stung me through the gloves several times and tend to swarm around me much more than the other hive. Both are about equally productive. Last fall I harvested about 190 pound total, not counting what was left to carry them over the winter. I am also thinking I will run out of honey supers before the summer is over. The question I have as a new-comer is Can I do something, or am I doing something to rile up one have and not the other? Did I also read in another Bee-l that the bees leave a pheremone or something on the gloves when they sting and therefore are prone to sting there again? Thanks for the advice: Just beginning, but enjoying it. Myron Van de Ven vandevem@GBMSO1.uwgb.edu ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Jul 1995 14:38:55 CDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Phil Wood Subject: Re: Bee Behavior In-Reply-To: <01HSFQ5A8TU00003AM@GBMS01.UWGB.EDU>; from "Myron Van de Ven" at Jul 3, 95 2:20 pm If I might hazard an answer to whether one of your hives is nasty: You are correct in writing that alarm pheremone can get on your gloves. If you're working one hive (the nice one) first, then that could account for some of the "nasty" behavior. The other thing to keep in mind is that it would be important to establish that other factors are not at work- try working the nasty hive first. There could be a few things at work: maybe you're working the smoker too much and you're blowing cool smoke on the first one, but hot smoke on the second one. Maybe it's the pheremones, maybe by the time you're done with an extensive manipulation you're sweaty. Given that you're probably looking in on your bees somewhat regularly, I'd at least conduct a few controlled experiments before requeening the "nasty" hive. Hope I haven't made too much of a fool of myself- Phil Wood Univ. of Missouri-Columbia ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Jul 1995 16:08:57 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Mike Worrell Subject: Re: Liability Insurance On May 9. Kerry Clark of the British Columbia Honey Producers' Association arranging a very inexpensive $1 Million liability policy for its members. Does anyone know who this carrier might be or of any other carriers that might be interersted? I would like to present this info to the Central Maryland Beekeepers Assoc. that they may present to our state assoc. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Jul 1995 15:42:00 CST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Matt Ter Molen Subject: Re: Bee Behavior Were the hives/packages purchased from the same bee breeder? Many times different strains (and for that matter different queens of the same strains) can have very different characteristics, agresiveness being one of those characteristics. I have purchased queens at the same time from the same breeder and had completely different hives. Some were good producers, some were more prolific in their use of propolis, etcc. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Jul 1995 19:01:51 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Mike Worrell Subject: Re: Mite Solution Comments: cc: BCULTURE@aol.com This same company was offering 5 free virgin queens this past winter to introduce a new line of "mite resistant" bees for postage and handling costs of $4.95. They were to have been delivered the 1st or 2nd week in May. A telephone call to them resulted in a promise of another week or two. About June 15 I called them and asked them to return my $4.95. They said they would. On July 3, (still haven't received my $4.95) I called and asked them to apply the $4.95 to a mated queen and ship immediately as I had a queenless hive. They said they would but wouldn't be able to ship her for about 2 weeks. Needless to say I can't wait two weeks and again asked them to returm my $4.95. Again they said they would. I.m not , however, holding my breath. I'm really surprised that Bee Culture magazine would continue to carry their advertising. Am I the only one complaining? Mike ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Jul 1995 18:53:42 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: P Kneeland <0002hcs@INFORMNS.K12.MN.US> Subject: Salt, Rain & Bees Hi folks! Here in northern Minnesota, on July the 2nd, we received a veritable plethora of rain. The is great news for things were definatly dry. My question to those of you with abundant experience concerns the following... I raise rabbits as well as bees. This morning my bees were spending a lot of time checking out my rabbit hutches, specifically the salt spools. I know bees will sometimes go after feed provided for cattle when the pollen isn't yet available, but salt? Any ideas? Thanks much, Peter Kneland Wings 'n' Wabbits 0002hcs@InforMNs.k12.MN.US ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Jul 1995 16:06:00 GMT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Andy Nachbaur Organization: WILD BEE'S BBS (209) 826-8107 LOS BANOS, CA Subject: My Two Cents Re: purple loosestrife ---------------------------------------- >From: "Jackie O'Keefe" >To: Multiple recipients of list BEE-L >Date: Mon, 3 Jul 1995 09:08:36 -0500 >Subject: My Two Cents Re: purple loosestrife >petulant in the face of a complex problem.) The question is about the >efficacy of using the insects being suggested, the risk of unanticipated >effects, and how radically the die-off will affect the immediate >environment. Can we address those considerations? I was curious to know Hi Jackie, You can rest assured that I don't normally post to this LIST group often and as the comment period expires July 12 so should the posts on Purple Loosetrife. The real question is that to those who would take the time to comment as to what choice they would want the Forest Service to make. It is a political decision made with the best scientific information the Forest Service can buy and public comment is an consideration. The three alternative plans are: A) NO ACTION, which means to continue with Purple Loosetrife control at local levels using already approved methods. I favor this plan. B) RELEASE ALL READY APPROVED BEETLES, as soon as they can be freed of unwanted internal parasites. C) BIOLOGICAL CONTROL, Release three additional non-native beetles species that in time will damage only 10% of the Loosetrife and other non-target wildflowers in all 48 states with no controls. All that I have suggested is to read the Environmental Assessment which is only 21 pages. I did, and I am not convinced that any of these new plant pests should be released based on what I read. ttul Andy- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Jul 1995 23:54:47 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Derk Phelps Subject: Where at in N. Minn.? Peter, Sorry, I don't have a reply to your questionsbut I did spend some time in N. Minnesota. Where are you at? generally? I was in Duluth for about 6 months or so. Derk Phelps dpbees@aol.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 4 Jul 1995 14:49:33 +0200 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Richard van Ouwerkerk Subject: Re: Tree full of bees In-Reply-To: <950702205412_24135403@aol.com> from "Boyd C Dickens" at Jul 2, 95 08:54:13 pm Bo W hat about trying with a comb with open brood? Bees love their babies!> > I have a locust tree full of bees across the road from my farm. The > bees enter the tree at ground level and seem to be a large colony. I tried > to lure the bees out with a hive full of honey comb but had no luck. Does > anyone know of a better way to lure the bees out. The tree encompasses the > electric line and can not be easily removed. Any responses would be greatly > appreciated. Thanks again for your help. > > Boyd C Dickens > BCDickens@AOL.COM > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 4 Jul 1995 09:01:05 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Marc Party Subject: Re: purple loosestrife This debate is getting heated. Great. To me though, the influx of purple loosestrife is equivalent to a hypothetical invasion of turfgrass throughout the wild prairie lands of North America. We're turning biological diversity into a monoculture wasteland. Purple flowers are beautiful, but that's no reason to seek out every rampantly growing flower of the world and try to encourage their growth here, nor is it a reason then to let p. loosestrife keep on eradicating previously diverse and rich wetland habitats. The bees will manage with less p. loosestrife. They've managed to survive for millions of years, they'll continue after we've disappeared from the face of the earth. Marc Patry Eastern Ontario Model Forest Kemptville, Ontario K0G 1J0 Canada tel (613) 258-8239 fax (613) 258-3920 e-mail mpatry@emr1.emr.ca ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 4 Jul 1995 09:59:29 +22300129 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Adam Finkelstein Subject: Re: Tree full of bees In-Reply-To: <9507041249.AA56441@horus.sara.nl> from "Richard van Ouwerkerk" at Jul 4, 95 02:49:33 pm > > I have a locust tree full of bees across the road from my farm. The > > bees enter the tree at ground level and seem to be a large colony. I tried > > to lure the bees out with a hive full of honey comb but had no luck. Does > > anyone know of a better way to lure the bees out. The tree encompasses the > > electric line and can not be easily removed. Any responses would be greatly > > appreciated. Thanks again for your help. > > > > Boyd C Dickens > > BCDickens@AOL.COM Why not leave them in the tree? Adam -- ______________________________________ Adam Finkelstein adamf@vtaix.cc.vt.edu ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 4 Jul 1995 10:52:25 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Lucy Cronin Subject: Re: Salt, Rain & Bees After reading the Art of Beekeeping by Aebi, we have established the practice of leaving salt on the landing board and bees really seem to like it. Lucy Cronin ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 4 Jul 1995 10:04:03 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: P Kneeland <0002hcs@INFORMNS.K12.MN.US> Subject: Re: Where at in N. Minn.? >Peter, > >Sorry, I don't have a reply to your questionsbut I did spend some time in N. >Minnesota. Where are you at? generally? I was in Duluth for about 6 months or >so. > >Derk Phelps >dpbees@aol.com Hi Derk, My family used to live in St. Cloud, Mn. until our vehicle broke down while helping a relative near Grand Rapids. It was an unplanned vacation and the best three weeks I'd spent in years. Needless to say six months later the house in St. Cloud was on the market and we were headed for a simpler, quieter and better life! -Peter ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 4 Jul 1995 12:32:15 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Dave Green, Eastern Pollinator Newsletter" Subject: Motivations? Dear Bee Folks: I keep hearing overtones that I find really offensive, embarassing, and frustrating. I am staying out of the loosestrife controversy, because I see two sides, and because it probably won't make much difference anyway. (I doubt that pristine conditions can ever be restored, and suspect that we will have to try to find workable solutions within the framework of what we have now.) But I support those who defend this forage source, and I find myself resenting those who immediately portray the defenders as greedy and selfish (-special interests), and glibly toss them off (-there are other nectar sources). There are not very many nectar sources that are as concentrated. There are not many places where you can take damaged bees for healing from pesticide damage, without concern for further damage. Are we greedy and selfish? Or are we fighting to survive? I am past the prime of my working life. I have no nest egg, no real estate (except a 6x3 foot plot), no pension, only my bees and the tools to work them. Most of my colleagues are of similar age and situation. Survival is season to season; each time it looks like I might get prosperous, I get a whole lot of pesticide damage, and there goes the profit. I guess I knew beekeeping was not an area to get rich, so I am not really complaining, except when someone implies that I am greedy and selfish. I keep bees because I love the work, the bees, and the sense of doing something really worthwhile in life. We may be the only profession that is of service to the community, simply by being present in the community. I tell gardeners that, if they have a neighborhood beekeeper, they ought to give him a kiss and a big watermelon, because he makes it possible. I have exerted my best efforts to interest others in keeping bees, mostly to no avail, probably because they see how hard the work is, with so little financial reward. Wild pollinators have been virtually eradicated in this area by pesticide misuse. Perhaps they could be restocked, but I don't know how. Right now it looks like honeybees are the only significant pollinators left for our food supply. And that is KEPT bees, not wild. If we cannot even convince ourselves -within our community, how can we convince the public that beekeepers HAVE to survive, if we are going to have a food supply going into the next generation. And how can we convince them that we are seeing trends that are of vital interest to all, without seeming to be self-serving. I don't know the answer. Do you? Pollinator@aol.com Dave Green PO Box 1215, Hemingway, SC 29554 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 4 Jul 1995 19:31:00 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Crawfords Electronics <0006173164@MCIMAIL.COM> Subject: Re: Tree full of bees > > Bo W >hat about trying with a comb with open brood? Bees love their babies!> >> I have a locust tree full of bees across the road from my farm. The >> bees enter the tree at ground level and seem to be a large colony. I tried >> to lure the bees out with a hive full of honey comb but had no luck. Does >> anyone know of a better way to lure the bees out. The tree encompasses the >> electric line and can not be easily removed. Any responses would be greatly >> appreciated. Thanks again for your help. >> >> Boyd C Dickens >> BCDickens@AOL.COM >> I would suggest that you consider what happens when any colony is made queenless. Other bees do not join them or visa versa - they simply start to make new queen cells, if young enough larvae exist. There is still a myth that trapping with the use of a screen cone works, but then there is still a flat earth society. Bee removal is a physical process and unfortunately, cutting open big trees is not practical, most of the time. I opened up a ~30" oak last weekend. They where also entering at the base of the tree. After dropping the tree above three feet (after using a drill and auger to determine the height of the cavity) I cut a key stone style wedge, about a fifth of the diameter, from top to bottom. After removing two buckets of honey, down to ground level, I discovered the brood chamber was under ground another 20/24". Great sport and I even got paid for the "work". David Crawford 6173164@mci.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Jul 1995 17:25:41 GMT Reply-To: Gordon@apis.demon.co.uk Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Gordon Scott Subject: Re: UK Regional Bee Inspectors. You wrote: > I met our Inspector, Beulah Cullen, on Wednesday at a meeting of my > local beekeeping association. As an indicator of the scale of things, Beulah covers us too, although I hope our local BDO (Mark White) is different as he comes up from Gillingam in Dorset (one hell of a slog -- it takes him about 2 hours just to get here). I think there is a more proactive attitude. There needs to be when you consider how widely spread the inspectors are. I personally think that the new initiative shows promise because it aims to better educate beekeepers about their responsibilities to themselves. Of course some of us have always taken that to heart ;-). My worry is that the 'keepeers of bees' will take no notice and will just let their bees suffer whatever comes to them, with the consequential risk to *my* bees. The usual apathy reigns -- In Basingstoke our publicity leaflet even offers to take non-members through disease and varroa inspections and/or treatments, with no strings, but with no takers (yet -- ever the optimist). Still, Beulah and her peers should be giving talks in the forthcoming winters. Perhaps the message will eventually get through; if varroa doesn't first. Best regards, -- Gordon Scott Gordon@apis.demon.co.uk 100332,3310 on CompuServe Newsletter Beekeeper@apis.demon.co.uk ditto Beekeeper, Kendo Sandan, sometime sailor. Basingstoke, Hampshire, RG22 5HP, UK ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 Jul 1995 09:39:14 +0100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: International Bee Research Subject: B.mail - July 1995 Comments: To: socinsct@albnyvm1.BITNET, "hugo.veerkamp" , polpal-l@uoguelph.ca ===================================================== B-MAIL A monthly newsletter on issues and events in the bee world, provided by IBRA, the world information service for bee science and beekeeping. >From Andrew Matheson, Director **July 1995** ===================================================== **************** IN THIS ISSUE **************** All go for Costa Rica meeting American professionals reorganize The web gets better and better ************************************* SEE YOU IN CENTRAL AMERICA ************************************* Last month I visited Costa Rica to work on arrangements for next year's important meeting: the sixth IBRA conference on tropical bees; management and diversity. The local organizing committee at the Universidad Nacional Costa Rica has arrangements well in hand for this event. We are working on discount airfares, have a startlingly cheap room rate at the conference hotel, and are finalizing a comprehensive range of tour packages. Plans for the scientific content of the conference are also advanced, with almost all session convenors confirmed and the programme planned in outline. Watch for the second announcement, due out in September, and remember to start planning to be with us from 12 to 17 August 1996. ******************************* AMERICAN ORGANIZATION ******************************* Just landed on my desk is the latest newsletter of the American Association for Professional Apiculturalists, AAPA. For ten years the AAPA has united professionals in research, extension and regulations to better serve the science and industry of US apiculture. It's had a chequered career, though, being much less active during some periods than in others. Now it is standing on the brink of a new era of activity. Marion Ellis, of the University of Nebraska, has formed an internal review committee to evaluate the purpose and future activities of the group. The committee has carefully considered some important questions, and will be making its recommendations at the combined meeting of AAPA and the American Bee Research Conference in September. I believe that professional associations like the AAPA are very important for the well-being of the industry and the professionals serving it. The committee are to be congratulated for putting energy and considered thought into these issues. For further information on the AAPA/ABRC conference in September (in Athens, Georgia), contact Keith Delaplane (who is president of the AAPA) at ksd@uga.cc.uga.edu To contribute to the discussion on AAPA's revitalization contact Marion Ellis (mellis@unlinfo.unl.edu) or any other committee member; Bob Danka, Keith Delaplane, James Bach, John Skinner, Marla Spivak, Tom Webster. The current issue and all subsequent issues of the AAPA newsletter will be available from 1 September on the University of Nebraska World Wide Web pages (http://ianrwww.unl.edu/ianr/entomol/entdept.html). To clarify the terms used, 'American' is used to refer only to the USA. Whether 'apiculture' refers to management only of the honey bee or will include non-apis bees is under discussion. *************************** BUMBLE BEE MEETING *************************** September might seem like a long time away, but you know how time flies when you're having fun. Our next IBRA meeting, Bumble bees for pleasure and profit, is on 23 September and places are filling steadily. Book soon if you want to be sure of a seat. The registration form was in the May B.mail and is available from us at IBRA. ***************************** SUBSCRIBING TO B.MAIL ***************************** You are receiving this issue of B.mail either off a newsgroup, a mailing list such as BEE-L, or directly from IBRA. We are happy to continue supplying it free of charge as a service, but you can make it a little easier for us. Maintaining our ever-growing list of e.mail 'subscribers' to B.mail is getting to be a big chore. We would prefer you to receive this newsletter through one of the mass distribution outlets, as it's easier for us to post it to a few places than to send it to hundreds of subscribers. If you receive B.mail directly but can get it off one of the group channels, please let us know and we'll take your name off our list. Thanks. ******************************************** BEEKEEPERS GATHER IN LAUSANNE ******************************************** Don't forget the 34th international apiculture congress in Lausanne, Switzerland, from 15-19 August 1995. For late booking information contact the congress secretariat at Dentenbergstrasse 50, CH-3076 Worb, Switzerland. IBRA is organizing a symposium on world trade in bees and bee products as part of this congress, to promote discussion on important issues facing world beekeeping. This symposium is sponsored by the British Honey Importers and Packers Association. We will also be at the trade exhibition Apiexpo 95, being held in conjunction with the congress. Come and see us on stand 189, at the foot of the escalators. ************************ THE WEB SPREADS ************************ Response to IBRA's launch on to the World Wide Web was so enthusiastic we've accelerated our plans for further development. From 14 July you can see stage 2 of the IBRA pages, with Links to web pages interesting for beekeepers everywhere. News of new book titles. How to use BeeSearch, IBRA's powerful information retrieval service. News of IBRA's library, including a list of all the journals we receive; probably the most complete list of bee journals anywhere. Archives and the current issue of B.mail. Lots of information about IBRA's three journals, including guidelines for authors and a detailed description of a format for references that can be used by any journal. Don't forget our address; http://www.cardiff.ac.uk/ibra/index.html *********************************************** WHAT IS IBRA'S JOURNAL BEE WORLD? *********************************************** We call Bee World the international link between beekeeping science and practice. That's the purpose of this journal, which is really like no other journal in the world. It takes the latest in bee science and beekeeping, and provides topical reviews and digests which are relevant to people everywhere. Articles are written in a very readable style, without too much jargon. Through them non-scientists can get access to a storehouse of new knowledge and ideas. You can be sure that what you read in Bee World is of high quality, as it is a peer-reviewed journal. This means that all articles have been examined by independent experts of international renown, and revised if necessary, before they are accepted for publication. At the heart of Bee World are the review articles for which it is famous. These bring together and assess all the material relevant to a particular subject, so in one place you can cover all the latest information. Our reviews are written by experts who have experience with the subject and are usually involved in active research in the field, so know the information and understand its importance. Bee World reviews stand for some years as the most useful digest of information on their subject. The extensive reference lists included with each review also act as a bibliography for further reference. In the news and views section called 'The Buzz', Bee World has a whole range of interesting stuff from authors all over the place. Sections include: 'Science roundup', 'Bee products', 'World news', 'Beekeeping around the world' and 'Beekeeping techniques': with short articles (often with references and one or two illustrations) on particular topics. There is also a comprehensive guide to future international and national meetings, with reports on some past meetings and items on places to visit for beekeepers. For subscription information or a sample copy contact ibra@cardiff.ac.uk. Return address: E.mail: ibra@cardiff.ac.uk Fax: (+44) 1222-665522 Telephone: (+44) 1222-372409 Snailmail: 18 North Road, Cardiff CF1 3DY, UK ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 Jul 1995 11:20:30 GMT Reply-To: Gordon@apis.demon.co.uk Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Gordon Scott Subject: Making decrease? Hi all, In a conversation last night with some beekeeping friends, we were talking about this year's swarming (_Heavy_ -- Some of my colonies with new queens just eight weeks old are preparing again to swarm!). We got on to how we should decrease the number of stocks after our artificial swarms, swarm capturing and so on. Everyone admitted some difficulty with this, particularly in high season -- all the books tell you how to make increase but none seem to give much advice about restoring the status quo. There are lots of people out there who must have dealt with this to a greater or lesser extent already. What are your preferred methods please? I reckon our little group here are about to start experimenting with uniting large colonies in mid season. For the record, I personally expect to use the newspaper method to do the uniting with the queen in the lower brood box below a QX (maybe I need a drone exit?), give the brood time to hatch and then move the upper box above the cover board where I hope it will be cleaned of stores. My guess is that this will stay as a thread on the newsgroup/list as it may be of wide interest. However, if you think I'm wrong please say so on the list and ask people to mail me directly. I will then summarise and post a result. I'm away for a couple of days now so I can't answer directly for a while. Thanks in advance, -- Gordon Scott Gordon@apis.demon.co.uk 100332,3310 on CompuServe Newsletter Beekeeper@apis.demon.co.uk ditto Beekeeper, Kendo Sandan, sometime sailor. Basingstoke, Hampshire, RG22 5HP, UK ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 Jul 1995 08:49:21 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Kelley Rosenlund Subject: Re: Tree full of bees >There is still a myth that trapping with the use of a screen cone works, >but then there is still a flat earth society. >Bee removal is a physical process and unfortunately, cutting open big >trees is not practical, most of the time. Unfortunately I am finding myself in a similar situation. A several year old hive is in an old hollow brick corner foundation of a house and two weeks ago I made a cone exit and sealed every other nook & cranny I could find. I have checked it several times and all was well... till yesterday. They found a way back in! Also my starter hive with 3 frames of brood has not made a queen yet. I will bring another frame of brood this evening. I guess these gals will do as they please. I WILL NEVER UNDERSTAND WOMEN!!! Winged or un-winged! P.S. I wonder if putting bee-go in the foundation/tree to drive the bees out would speed the process up? God Bless, Kelley Rosenlund rosenlk@freenet.ufl.edu In the metropolis of Gainesville, Florida, U.S.A. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 Jul 1995 11:04:57 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Patrick M O'Hearn <73203.610@COMPUSERVE.COM> Subject: Flat Earth Society-members wanted Hello All, On July 4 Dave Crawford wrote "There is still a myth that trapping with the use of a screen cone works, but then there is still a flat earth society"... Dave, I have successfully used a screen cone in four instances over the past several years. I was concerned that all I was doing was preventing the bees from returning home and dooming them to no good end however, last year I placed a newly hived swarm next to the cone opening rather than an established hive. Within a short period of time, the hive had grown much larger than could be accounted for by natural increase. Bees will drift, and bees can be manipulated by the presence of brood so why wouldnt the presence of an established hive immediately adjacent to a no longer accessible opening be an alternative for the returning bees? In my mind it works the same as switching a strong and a weak hive, allowing the weak hive to capture the returning workers. Now, if I can just figure out why all those aussies dont fall off the bottom of this flat planet I guess I will be all set . take care Patrick M O'Hearn Bears Choice Honey Aztec, NM ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 Jul 1995 11:32:50 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Dave Green, Eastern Pollinator Newsletter" Subject: Re: Tree full of bees In a message dated 95-07-05 08:50:04 EDT, rosenlk@freenet.ufl.edu >P.S. I wonder if putting bee-go in the foundation/tree to drive the bees out would speed the process up. In my experience bee-go will not induce bees to leave brood or open honeycomb. Drumming is the only thing I know of. I have drummed bees from logs and trees, but in a wall, you'd have to find exactly where they are. We use drumming sometimes for package bees. It will just about empty the brood nest, including the queen. A rubber mallet works well, without damage, if you don't get too exuberant. The problem with cone trapping is that you do not get the queen or young bees, only the old ones that are the least valuable anyway. If you find wild colonies that are surviving without varroa treatment, you SURE do want that queen. Pollinator@aol.com Dave Green PO Box 1215, Hemingway, SC 29554 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 Jul 1995 12:08:36 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "" Subject: Re: Mite Solution Who was the vendor? Larry Connor ljconnor@aol.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 Jul 1995 16:02:59 -0300 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: NB*net - New Brunswick's Regional Network 1-800-561-4459 From: Hamilton Subject: Re: Bees, Andy, & loosestrife snip > Welcome aboard! snip > Re: Andy's opinionated tomes: Andy has paid his dues. I, for one, would >hate to see him edited, as I always gain some new perspectives from his >outbursts. He is a very smart man, self educated, and comes up with a lot of >stuff the run-of-the-mill guys, like me would miss. > I don't always agree with Andy, of course; but please don't try to >sanitize the group to your standards, at least until you've been around >awhile -and paid your dues. Sometimes it can be a bit of a free-for-all; >I've got my own bruises to show for it, but, hey, that's the route to >learning! snip >Dave Green Pollinator@aol.com >PO Box 1215, Hemingway, SC 29554 I've been a lurker and wide eyed beginner for a while and totally agree. Welcome to beekeeping. Cyber-beekeeping is fascinating ;-] and I've learned a lot. Discussions are civil and flame-free for the most part.(my husband envies me the 'tone' and interest of the beekeeping posts I get, sadly he's not a beekeeper ;-[) ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 Jul 1995 13:15:42 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Subject: Read Old Issues of BEE-L by Web or Email Contents: 1.) Web access to BEE-l 2.) Email access to historical BEE-L discussions 3.) How to ensure the logs are not too large to save in future There are two ways now to read back issues of BEE-L. ~~~~~~~~ 1. ) BEE-l can presently be read on the Worldwide Web by pointing your brouser at http://www.internode.net:80/~allend/index.html This is a NEW URL. You can also still get there from http://www.cuug.ab.ca:8001/~dicka The National (USA) Honey Board Database is also there to brouse or download. If you have web access, either by PPP and a graphical brouser or by lynx (a UNIX brouser available on many UNIX shell accounts by typing the command 'lynx'), this is the fast, simple way to go. 2.) For those with no web access, logs are also available quite conveniently by email from LISTSERV@uacsc2.albany.edu However they only go back to 1994. Due to the increasing size of recent logs and limited space on the LISTSERV, the older logs have been displaced. To have a BEE-L log emailed to you: ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Just send a message with no subject (subject lines are ignored) to LISTSERV@uacsc2.albany.edu with the message GET BEE-L LOGMMYY Where MM is the month (ie. 05 for May) and YY is the year (ie. 95 for 1995). To get May 95, just type GET BEE-L LOG9505 Additional logs requested can be added on up to four more lines in your message. Be aware of the spacing of the words (No space in LOG9505, for example). Leave out any other text -- such as .signatures. Additional text - other than lines with additional commands -- will trigger harmless (but confusing to you) email error messages from the LISTSERV. The log will arrive some time later in your mailbox. Warning: logs can be 650 K in size. 3.)Therefore please edit your contributions to BEE-L and leave off long sigs: ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Please, everyone, when posting to BEE-L, consider the size of your .signature file and limit the amount of previous articles quoted to what is necessary to understand your comments -- Thanks. Some love their huge ascii art sigs, but generally netiquette frowns on them. Please edit out all signatures and unnecessary (irrelevant) parts of the quoted message whern you reply, to reduce the amount of material going into the logs. This will keep the size manageable. What uses up space? Entire blank lines use only one byte, so feel free to use lots of blank lines if it makes your message easy to read. For example the previous (empty) line used only one byte! Part lines use one byte for each character visible plus one, so they are not wasteful either. The above partial line is 21 bytes because I did not add any spaces after the '.' '>' alone on a line is only two bytes. However the blank spaces in signatures, used to space things out, count one byte per space, or up to eighty bytes per line. For example: my sig below uses 216 bytes (54 bytes per line times four lines). This is equivalent to one four line paragraph of text. So, please don't quote it when you quote me. I hope this info is useful and encourages more compact logs without discouraging people from posting -- after all the posts are what make this list interesting and useful. Enjoy. Allen W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper VE6CFK Rural Route One Swalwell Alberta Canada T0M 1Y0 Email: dicka@cuug.ab.ca or allend@internode.net Futures, Art & Honey:http://www.cuug.ab.ca:8001/~dicka ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 Jul 1995 16:53:28 PDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jane Beckman Subject: Re: Bee Behavior Some hives just have nasty tempers. When I was working the main bee yard at Cal Poly, back in the mid '70's, we always joked about "Damn, no foulbrood in the #4 hive this time, either." That was because there was a noticable difference in hive #4 from all the rest of the hives in the bee yard. These gals were nasty customers, and we really would have relished a chance to just get rid of them, altogether. (It was eventually requeened, but this was unusual as Poly wasn't doing regular requeening in this era, but rather managing supercedure cells. Folks just got fed up with dealing with this hive and ordered a commercial queen.) All you had to do was take off the top cover and you could *hear* the difference---a slight amplification and an ascending note of buzzing. I never was stung while working any of the other hives. Good old #4 always managed to get me or make a good try for it. I think it's genetics. Jane B. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 Jul 1995 20:43:01 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "DAVE D. CAWLEY" Subject: Re: Wing length AHB > From: "D. Kall" > If a reliable difference could be established it could lead from > the fanciful bee-killing laser to a practical, field-test device. > Imagine a portable lab chamber and a laptop to take measurements. > Field bees are caught individually and inserted in the chamber. > Based on acoustic signatures AHB are distinguished from regular bees. > No need to do complicated and time consuming physiological > investigations that are difficult/impossible to do in the field. > > > So what does everyone think? Possible? I think it would significantly *increase* the time it takes to check my bees if I had to corral each bee into a little "Cone of Silence"(tm) to check it and somehow remember who has had their turn and who hasn't. I think I'll stick with the I get close to the hive and they attack me by the hundreds test...thanks anyway. 8-} ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Dave D. Cawley | The information on the Internet is only University Of Scranton | interesting to people who are interested Scranton, Pennsylvania | in it. dave@scranton.com | -Scranton Tomorrow Spokeswoman ddc1@jaguar.uofs.edu | refusing invitation to Internet Cafe's opening ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 Jul 1995 18:08:25 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Phil Soderman Subject: NEWS USDA mite controls tests I found an article in the June 28, 1995-p23 issue of Ag Alert. USDA tests new way to fight mites. U.S. Dept of Ag researchers say they are testing a concoction of natural plant oils in a new attack on mites-the biggest threat to domestic honeybees. Laboratory and small-scale field tests have shown the blend of plant extracts is effective against both tracheal and Varroa mites, which have been a growing problem across the country since the mid-1980s. Now, ARS scientists are conducting larger studies in four states to see how well the extracts work in commercial apiaries. "We still have a long way to go before we have a commercial product, but we are encouraged," said Nick Calderone, an ARS entomologist whose comments were published in the June issue of the agency's Agricultural Research magazine. "These compounds exhibit a significant potential for controlling mites and may be effective against some honeybee diseases," he said. SNIP SNIP SNIP cut out some general info The plant extracts ARS has been using have been shown to be effective against both types of mites and don't harm the bees, Calderone said. Large-scale field tests are being conducted at commercial apiaries in Harrisonburg, Va., and Mercersberg, Pa.; in Texas in cooperation with the ARS as Weslaco; and at the University of Minnesota. As they continue to test the extracts, researchers also are trying to develop a way to apply the compounds with as little work as possible. A final step that would be needed is regulatory approval from the EPA. Calderone said he hopes to find a mixture of extracts that would kill both types of mites. Now, the blend used against Varroa mite is primarily thymol and eucalyptus oil. This mixture killed 98% of Varroa mites and was as effective as the fluvalinate strips, researchers said. For tracheal mites, the oils are from peanuts, sunflowers, rapeseed, or soybeans and mixed into sugar patties. Between 1.5% and 2.5% of the bees were found to be infected after their hives were treated with this compound, compared with 10% in untreated colonies. MY NOTES I have not seen anything about this topic on this group and maybe someone who is involved or knows about these materials can comment further. Phil Soderman sgrower1@rain.org Phil Soderman sgrower1@rain.org Carpinteria, California USA ZONE 10 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 Jul 1995 00:17:15 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Michael Moroney Subject: Re: Bee Behavior In-Reply-To: <<01HSFQ5A8TU00003AM@GBMS01.UWGB.EDU> > I am in my second year of keeping two hives and have successfully carried > them over the winter. Both hives are going very strong and I go through > the hives weekly to find the queen cells so they don't swarm. I have > notices that one of the hives is much more aggressive to my presence than > the other hive. They have stung me through the gloves several times and > tend to swarm around me much more than the other hive. The agressiveness of bees is largely genetic. I had the same situation last year. I had two hives next to each other and both were equally productive. One hive was quite easygoing (Buckfast), but the other, allegedly a gentle Midnite hybrid, well I wonder if they sent me an African Honeybee queen instead. Pop the lid on those gals and you were in trouble if you had any kinks in your armor. Angry bees would just boil out of that hive. This hive would produce in real life the classic cartoon scene with a cloud of bees streaming from the hive going after some unfortunate. After working them I had to wait around with my veil on for 1-2 hours while the cloud of bees around my head dispersed. Last fall both hives were somewhat weak so I combined them. The mean hive was too agressive for me to find (and kill) the queen so I just combined them with the newspaper method and hoped. Fortunately the "nice" queen seems to have won, the hive is fairly good-tempered now. -Mike ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 Jul 1995 11:36:00 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Winkler, David" Subject: purple loostrife I found the following quote the other day in a 1924 edition of "The Book of Wild Flowers". It is remarkable that this plant has been spreading for >70 years and is just now eliciting a response like we are seeing. I think beekeepers have little to worry about this plant being damaged by pests that feed on it in Europe. The threat to native species by the insects may end up being a problem however. Since they have been released in Canada it is probably only a matter of time until they spread here anyway. Colonization of new species is a natural phenomenon and we will have to live with the consequences of it regardless if it is a plant or insect or if it gets here on its own or is given a lift by man. We can make a best guess what the outcome will be, but only time will tell. >From "The Book of Wild Flowers", The National Geographic Society, Washington, DC, 1924 An immigrant from Europe, loving wet meadows, marshy places, and banks of streams, and flowering from June to August, the purple loosestrife has secured a foothold in North America and thrives from eastern Canada to Delaware and from the Atlantic seaboard to the Middle States. So beautiful is it that many are ready to forgive Europe for all the weeds it has sent us, when they see an inland marsh in August aglow with this beautiful flower born to the royal purple. The purple loosestrife is different from any other heretofore mentioned, because it has what are known as trimorphic flowers. Being unable to set seed without the aid of insects, the purple loosestrife has devised a most ingenious sort of arrangement to make sure that it shall not pass away until its flowers have been fertilized. This plant produces six different kinds of yellow and green pollen on its two sets of three stamens; these six different kinds of pollen are deposited on the stigmas, which are of three different lengths. Darwin showed that only pollen brought from the shortest stamen to the shortest pistil and from the other stamens to the pistils of corresponding length could effectively fertilize the flower. He found that the reproductive organs, when of different length, behaved toward one another like different species of the same genus, both with regard to direct productiveness and in the character of the offspring. When he made his famous discovery concerning trimorphism of the loosestrife, he wrote to Gray, the botanist: "I am almost stark, staring mad over Lythrum;... for the love of heaven have a look at some of your species, and if you can get me some seeds, do." David Winkler ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 Jul 1995 13:44:01 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Derk Phelps Subject: Re: Hello, fellow Gopher Peter, I have been in Grand Rapids, I am jealous of your more simpler life. Hibbing is also very interesting, a very large hole in the ground. By the way I am in Bountiful, Utah, about 15 miles N of Salt Lake City, 2002 Olympics place. In the future I might have you look up a address, Email and regular, and phone number or two. Thanks for the reply. Talk to you later. Derk ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 Jul 1995 05:26:00 GMT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Andy Nachbaur Organization: WILD BEE'S BBS (209) 826-8107 LOS BANOS, CA Subject: Last Day July 12 1995 ---------------------------------------- Last chance to comment on the Environmental Assessment on control by release of introduced pest insects of Purple Loosestrife The Comment Period which ends July 12, 1995 is not far away. Your chance to have real input in what the Fish and Wildlife Service does to control Purple Loosestrife is short. You see they have already decided that this beautiful, productive naturalized bee forage plant is all bad and must be dealt with, but you can comment on which plan they should use. The US Fish & Wildlife Service Three Alternatives Plans: Plans ------- A> NO ACTION, which transulated from US goverment code means: Plants will be removed by hand pulling; controlled by flooding or drying; plants stressed by mechanical treatment; herbicidal treatment and fire to temporarily control plants in selected areas. B> RELEASE ALREADY APPROVED BEETLES: Service would release the two beetles when they have been bred without internal parasites. C> BIOLOGICAL CONTROL: Release three additional bettle species that are host specific to purple loosestrife. Long-term, continuous control, not eradication. I ask you all to join with me in making your personal comments to the Fish & Wildlife Service and support Plan A> NO ACTION as an alternative to the risk of releasing of any kind of new plant pests that will damage or destroy other native wildflower other then Purple Loosestrife the intended target host. Mail your comment to arrive on or before July 12, 1995 to: Chief Robert Schallenberger Division of Refuges U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service 600 ARLSQ, 1849 C St., NW, Washington, D.C. 20240 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 Jul 1995 02:33:36 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Moote, John M." Subject: Malathion substitute for Medflies In the "They still don't get it" category, I read today in "Inside R & D" (Vol. 24 No. 25) that the USDA is developing new insecticides for the California Medfly problem that will help calm the public alarm over "...clouds of Malathion sprayed by helicopters across California...". The new compounds, phloxine B and uranine, are dyes that become toxic upon exposure to light (as in the transparent gut of a bug). Since mammals are not transparent, they are not affected. The article ends with "Still to be determined: Do the dyes break down into compounds that harm crops?" Once again, our six-legged friends in the Apis genera get classed with the other bugs in a notch somewhat below crops and mammals. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 Jul 1995 17:04:30 +0100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Malcolm Roe Subject: Re: Bee Behavior In-Reply-To: <9507040405.AA14674@crosfield.co.uk> from "Myron Van de Ven" at Jul 3, 95 02:20:21 pm Up to now all replies to Myron Van de Ven's original question have accepted that the problem is genetic. This may well be true but it seems to me the implication is that the problem has arisen this year. I.e., last year the temper of the bees was OK. Look at exactly what was said:- > Both hives are going very strong and I go through > the hives weekly to find the queen cells so they don't swarm. I have > notices that one of the hives is much more aggressive to my presence than > the other hive. Myron, are you cutting out queen cells to prevent swarming? If so, this is probably the cause of the bad temper. It may be worth cutting out cells once or twice in case the bees decide to stop making swarm preparations. (At least I've read that it can work, although my bees certainly aren't that easily discouraged. Once they've decided to swarm their mind is made up.) However it's a very bad long term swarm control technique because you're continually frustrating the bees instincts. I tried it once, just to see what happened. Swarm preparations started in May and by July I was still cutting out queen cells and the temper of the colony was appalling. In the end I made an artificial swarm and before long both the new colonies were back to usual. My preferred method of swarm control, once preparations have started, is artificial swarming. It's simple and very appropriate for small scale beekeepers. I only ever cut queen cells if I discover them unexpectedly and don't have the time or the equipment to hand, in which case I return within a few days with another hive. Invariably I find more cells have been created. > The question I have as a new-comer is Can I do something, or am I doing > something to rile up one have and not the other? If you're cutting queen cells, presumably just in one hive, then stop and do something else. If not, then the problem is genetic and re-queening is in order. > Did I also read in > another Bee-l that the bees leave a pheremone or something on the gloves > when they sting and therefore are prone to sting there again? That is correct. Even if I'm wearing gloves I scrape off the sting and puff some smoke over the site. The smoke seems to mask the smell. -- Malcolm Roe Phone : +44 1442 345104 Crosfield Electronics Ltd Fax : +44 1442 343000 Hemel Hempstead, Herts. HP2 7RH, UK E-mail : roe@crosfield.co.uk ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 Jul 1995 13:20:13 GMT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: MEMO 1995/07/07 13:30 From: John E III Taylor Subject: Re[2]: Salt, Rain & Bees If bees utilize salt from the landing board, or from the spools in the rabbit hutches, I'd guess they'd also be likely to visit the salt block we have in the field for the cattle. It's one of the yellow ones that contains other minerals--I don't think it contains medication, but it may. Could the bees' use of this salt block be a problem for them, or for their honey? John E. Taylor III W3ZID | "The opinions expressed are those of the E-Mail: mah48d@rohmhaas.com | writer and not of Rohm and Haas Company." _______________________________________________________________________________ Subject: Re: Salt, Rain & Bees From: SMTP.BEEL1 at ROHMAIL Date: 7/4/95 10:53 AM After reading the Art of Beekeeping by Aebi, we have established the practice of leaving salt on the landing board and bees really seem to like it. Lucy Cronin ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 Jul 1995 19:09:39 +0100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Malcolm Roe Subject: Re: Making decrease? In-Reply-To: <9507060405.AA15592@crosfield.co.uk> from "Gordon Scott" at Jul 5, 95 11:20:30 am Gordon Scott wrote: > [Our group of beekeepers] got > on to how we should decrease the number of stocks after our artificial > swarms, swarm capturing and so on. Everyone admitted some difficulty > with this, particularly in high season -- all the books tell you how to > make increase but none seem to give much advice about restoring the > status quo. This is an interesting subject. Like Gordon, I have problems with it. In spite of everything I do, most of my colonies make swarm preparations, so I use artificial swarming. This means that, by the middle of June, I usually have at least twice as many colonies as I had 6 weeks before. (I try to avoid exacerbating the problem too much with swarms collected from elsewhere by getting rid of them as quickly as possible to novices or others who want them.) The books imply that at this stage you should reunite your colonies, producing strong stocks again for the summer flow. My experience is that if I do this a certain, and sometimes large, proportion of the colonies start making swarm preparations again due to the sudden increase in population combined with the start of the main summer flow. A problem with small scale beekeeping is that it's difficult to control the genetic make-up of your queens. I suppose I could buy in new ones but it's cheaper and more interesting to raise my own and artificial swarming achieves this without all the complications of grafting and special rearing and mating colonies. However, an important part of selective breeding is evaluation. With the small number of queens I raise I can't be very selective. Things like honey-getting are dependant on many factors other than genetics, and my sample size is not sufficiently large. Things I can select for are temper and following. To evaluate this plus general health I need to allow the queen raising colony from the artificial swarm to become well established. This, plus the tendency to swarm again referred to above, mean that I delay reuniting until late July or August. A consequence of this is that I have to super all the colonies. When I reunite, more or less at the end of the main summer flow, I know the characteristics of all the queens I have. I unite in such a way as to retain the queens I want and dispose of those I don't. There's a presumption that I'll normally keep the younger queens but if there aren't enough good ones I'll retain the best of the older ones too. This is how I work at present. It seems to work fairly well most of the time but it needs more equipment than I would like. My honey yields seem to be as good as most other members of my local beekeeping association and better than many. Note that the method lends itself to frequent replacement of brood combs, a valuable method of reducing disease, since the artificial swarms can be started mainly on foundation. > I [Gordon Scott] personally > expect to use the newspaper method to do the uniting with the queen in > the lower brood box below a QX (maybe I need a drone exit?), give the > brood time to hatch and then move the upper box above the cover board > where I hope it will be cleaned of stores. This is more or less what I do except that there's some extra complexity due to both colonies having supers. Shortly after uniting, I change the order of the boxes to get all the supers on top and shuffle the brood frames around to get the best frames and, as far as possible, most of the brood below the queen excluder. (Perhaps I should use a drone exit too. I don't like keeping them trapped above the excluder. I'd be interested in other people's experience here.) After the three weeks it takes for the last of the drone brood to emerge, quite a lot of honey has usually accumulated in the brood box above the excluder. I've never had much success getting the bees to remove this so I usually end up extracting the old brood frames. I don't know what the answer to this is. I find it's not very satisfactory because it means I need an extractor that will take brood frames and also there's a great deal of pollen in the honey from these frames which means it must be thoroughly filtered to prevent rapid crystallization. -- Malcolm Roe Phone : +44 1442 345104 Crosfield Electronics Ltd Fax : +44 1442 343000 Hemel Hempstead, Herts. HP2 7RH, UK E-mail : roe@crosfield.co.uk ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 Jul 1995 14:17:12 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: John Batson Subject: Re: Salt In-Reply-To: <"ROH033.MAH48D.7000.1995.070713.20.13.20*"@MHS> Item Subject: Message text Salts are obviously important for living species. But I'm struck by a possible paradox: If you feed salty fluid to a restrained forager, she refuses it and clearly treats it as offensive. So, can someone please enlighten me? How do bees crave salt, and yet treat it as noxious? Thanks John Batson Greenville SC ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 Jul 1995 15:14:48 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Marc Party Subject: When to retire an old comb? Question: How old can an old comb be before and old comb becomes a waste comb? I bougth my equipment from a neighbour about 5 years ago. With this equipment was old comb - some old comb that hasn't been used for years. I have also put aside some old comb of my own. With the INCREDIBLE honey flow going on at this very moment, I have the option of using this old comb to give to my bees, or of going through the painstaking task of putting in foundation on new frames. I have to get this done in the next 5 days. I have the following types of comb: - old brood comb, very dark, very heavy frame. - old honeycomb, cracked, very dry - comb that was stored wet with residual honey, now containing green fungus; some is still humid, others are dry; - comb stored wet with green fungus AND some orangey stuff too. - comb in which, sob, my bees died 2 winter ago. The comb still contains many dead but dry bees well inserted into the cells. - combs with big holes chewed into them by mice. - combs with combinations of the above. In the worst case scenario, I see myself opening a museum of old comb. Looking forward to your replies. Marc Patry Near Ottawa, Ontario ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 Jul 1995 16:48:12 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Subject: Re: When to retire an old comb? In-Reply-To: <9507071914.AA29301@emr1.emr.ca> On Fri, 7 Jul 1995, Marc Party wrote: > With the INCREDIBLE honey flow > going on at this very moment, I have the option of using this old comb to > give to my bees, or of going through the painstaking task of putting in > foundation on new frames. I have to get this done in the next 5 days. I > have the following types of comb: > > - old brood comb, very dark, very heavy frame. > - old honeycomb, cracked, very dry > - comb that was stored wet with residual honey, now containing green fungus; > some is still humid, others are dry; > - comb stored wet with green fungus AND some orangey stuff too. > - comb in which, sob, my bees died 2 winter ago. The comb still contains > many dead but dry bees well inserted into the cells. > - combs with big holes chewed into them by mice. > - combs with combinations of the above. Unless there is some AFB scale, there is no good reason not to use any or all of the above. It will be easier for the bees than foundation in any case -- and you as well. I have seen all the above dealt with quickly by strong hives on a flow. The only mnistake you couild possibly make if this is indeed an INCREDIBLE flow is to fool around with foundation or driving off to buy some new/old stuff. My urgent advice: Go out this very minute and put on some supers -- any supers -- and at least one more per hive than you can imagine they could possibly use. You can't believe how many beekeepers do everything else right then fail to put on the supers *before* the bees need them. Allen W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper VE6CFK Rural Route One Swalwell Alberta Canada T0M 1Y0 Email: dicka@cuug.ab.ca or allend@internode.net Futures, Art & Honey:http://www.cuug.ab.ca:8001/~dicka ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 8 Jul 1995 15:04:17 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Brian Tassey Subject: Re: Mite Solution Larry, The vendor for MITE SOLUTION is Apicom International Bee Products, Inc. 520 W. 112th St., Suite 9A-9 New York, New York 10025 800 704-9273 Fax 212 662-2829 Brian Tassey Kaykin@aol.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 8 Jul 1995 18:22:04 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "MR WILLIAM L HUGHES JR." Subject: Plastic frames, foundation, and combs I purchased some plastic frames and foundation (sprayed with wax) and placed in a upper hive body. the bees are ignoring the plastic. They are very crowded. I was wondering if any experienced beekeepers have used these products and there opinion of plastic. I have just started keeping bees this year. Bill Hughes Bent Holly Farms ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 9 Jul 1995 22:08:54 MET Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Christian Mauron Subject: Re: Plastic frames, foundation, and combs it is juste to remember me how to suscribe to the liste because a friend from switzerland would like to suscribe as welle and i dont n known how to do it any more thaanks you and bye bye ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 9 Jul 1995 21:23:11 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Subject: Microscopes for dissection Today I had - for the first time - the experience of gazing through a good (Zeiss) dissecting microscope aimed at the tracheae of a bee with acarine. An amazing and in some ways a very beautiful sight. Inasmuch as I have been told that I have some mites by a dissecting service to which I sent a sample lAST FALL, I am going to have to sample SERIOUSLY this fall and decide whether to treat. Being the impatient and untrusting soul that I am, I will want to have the disection done on our premises. Therefore I am thinking I would like to obtain such a binocular microscope. I realise that I could probably use a cheap microscope - or even a strong glass or loupe - but I can see that an hour or so of such work would be torture, especially knowing that such a fine device exists. So, I wonder what recommendations the more experienced beekeepers or the scientists might offer in finding one at a good price. I am not even adverse to obtaining a used one. Cost is a strong consideration. Please anyone who can offer advice or a used dissecting microscope, email me. If there is anything of interest to the list, I will of course summarise to BEE-L. Allen W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper VE6CFK Rural Route One Swalwell Alberta Canada T0M 1Y0 Email: dicka@cuug.ab.ca or allend@internode.net Futures, Art & Honey:http://www.cuug.ab.ca:8001/~dicka ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 Jul 1995 07:34:49 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Casey Burns Subject: Re: Microscopes for dissection In-Reply-To: I recommend Meiji Microscopes - I have the SKT, which has 2X and 4X objectives, and 15X and 20X eyepieces. Cost was around $450 from Nurnberg Scientific in Portland, OR. On Sun, 9 Jul 1995, Allen Dick wrote: > Today I had - for the first time - the experience of gazing through a good > (Zeiss) dissecting microscope aimed at the tracheae of a bee with acarine. > > An amazing and in some ways a very beautiful sight. > > Inasmuch as I have been told that I have some mites by a dissecting > service to which I sent a sample lAST FALL, I am going to have to sample > SERIOUSLY this fall and decide whether to treat. > > Being the impatient and untrusting soul that I am, I will want to have > the disection done on our premises. > > Therefore I am thinking I would like to obtain such a binocular > microscope. > > I realise that I could probably use a cheap microscope - or even a strong > glass or loupe - but I can see that an hour or so of such work would be > torture, especially knowing that such a fine device exists. > > So, I wonder what recommendations the more experienced beekeepers or the > scientists might offer in finding one at a good price. I am not even > adverse to obtaining a used one. Cost is a strong consideration. > > Please anyone who can offer advice or a used dissecting microscope, email > me. > > If there is anything of interest to the list, I will of course summarise > to BEE-L. > > Allen > > W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper VE6CFK > Rural Route One Swalwell Alberta Canada T0M 1Y0 > Email: dicka@cuug.ab.ca or allend@internode.net > Futures, Art & Honey:http://www.cuug.ab.ca:8001/~dicka > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 Jul 1995 11:24:00 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Robin Wells Organization: CRS Online (Toronto, Ontario) Subject: Plastic frames, foundatio ->BEE-L@UACSC2.ALBANY.EDU References: <013.08433330.NHJV32A@prodigy.com> BB> placed in a upper hive body. the bees are ignoring the plastic. BB> They are very crowded. I was wondering if any experienced BB> beekeepers have used these products and there opinion of plastic. BB> I have just started keeping bees this year. I have found that a waxed foundation was accepted better than unwaxed. Once comb building began there seemed to be little difference, it did take some rotation of the frames to get the unwaxed ones to be accepted. Once fully drawn they seemed to be accepted equally. Extraction presented no unexpected or unusual difficulties. --- * RM 1.3 02898 * Hey! My keyboOtUuc++EG ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 Jul 1995 11:48:51 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Chris Coplan Subject: Re: Plastic frames, foundation, and combs Bill Hughes wrote.... >I purchased some plastic frames and foundation (sprayed with wax) and >placed in a upper hive body. the bees are ignoring the plastic. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ I've just started this year (early June / Richmond VA), with plastic frames/foundation, and my bees seem to love it - lots of brood, honey and pollen. Just put the 2nd hive body (with plastic foundation) on Saturday. Chris ccoplan@infi.net ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 Jul 1995 12:15:33 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Brian Tassey Subject: Re: Plastic frames, foundatio... Bill, If you are starting with a single, the population of bees you have will take a while to draw out that box of foundation. Figure that if the plastics are deeps this amounts to about 80- 90 lbs of honey when drawn out and filled. Plastics hold more honey that a standard wooden frame because of the slimmer frame. I've got about 30-40,000 of both deep and shallow plastics in use and think that they are great. I would think that for hobby beekeepers they would be ideal (they are more forgiving than woods) If you can, take out the outside frames of honey from the lower box and place them in the center of the set of plastics. This will stimulate the bees to work in the new box. Don't go into the brood frames and I would even leave the outside pollen frame in there also If you have some extra frames of drawn comb hanging around use them instead. A full box of foundation is alot to draw out, they will do it but it is going to take some time. If you could reduce the number for now to 1/2 drawn and 1/2 foundation the queen can lay at a greater rate and the bees will draw the foundation out quicker. Keep those plastics shoved together closely because in a slow or weak flow they will build bridge comb between them and not draw it out properly. Hope this helps. Be happy if they draw this out and plug out this year. It all depends on the nectar flow you are having. Brian Tassey Kaykin aol.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 Jul 1995 10:58:12 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Subject: Re: Plastic frames, foundation, and combs In-Reply-To: On Mon, 10 Jul 1995, Chris Coplan wrote: > Bill Hughes wrote.... > >I purchased some plastic frames and foundation (sprayed with wax) and > >placed in a upper hive body. the bees are ignoring the plastic. > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > I've just started this year (early June / Richmond VA), with plastic > frames/foundation, and my bees seem to love it - lots of brood, honey and > pollen. Just put the 2nd hive body (with plastic foundation) on Saturday. This is an interesting subject. I've just started using some (I bought 600 sheets) because the commercials around here have tried it and swear by it. I don't plan to ever use wax again. The installation (into frames I would throw away if I had to re-wire and scrape) is a breeze! And it doesn't fall out on the way to the yards, and it doesn't get stale if unused like wax. The product I bought is Permadent from Webster SD. I've tried the type that comes cast in the in the frame too and it was accepted quite well. It's name escapes me, but I am sure that someone will remind me. (Was it Pierco? I think so) I had both waxed and unwaxed and the waxed was slightly better for acceptance. I think there may be some more brands out there, so I' be interested in knowing what people have learned about it and the cost. I'm paying $1.09 CDN for a sheet of the Permadent (waxed) that is about 79 cents US. Am I paying too much???? Allen W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper VE6CFK Rural Route One Swalwell Alberta Canada T0M 1Y0 Email: dicka@cuug.ab.ca or allend@internode.net Futures, Art & Honey:http://www.cuug.ab.ca:8001/~dicka ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 Jul 1995 13:32:55 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Paul Madden Subject: Ants Comments: To: BEE-L I am having a problem with ants colonizing between the inner cover and the telescoping cover. I've been controlling (?) the ants by removing both covers and replacing them with "clean" ones, but I'm wondering if there's any good way to control them that's more permanent. For one thing these (red/black) ants sting, and they hurt. They also get all over everything, and drive the bees nuts when they fall down into the hive. I'd appreciate any practical suggestions. -- Paul Madden pm6f@virginia.edu http://poe.acc.virginia.edu/~pm6f ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 Jul 1995 14:57:40 -0300 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Harvey Hyde Subject: Re: Ants In-Reply-To: <199507101732.NAA122816@poe.acc.Virginia.EDU> On Mon, 10 Jul 1995, Paul Madden wrote: > I am having a problem with ants colonizing between the inner > cover and the telescoping cover. A while back, someone suggested sprinkling comet on the inner cover to controll the ants. Maybe it works --let us know if it does. Harvey Hyde hhyde@peinet.pe.ca ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 Jul 1995 14:08:48 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Lucy Cronin Subject: Re: Ants We control ants by sprinkling cayenne pepper in the area. It really worked for us. Good luck, Lucy ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 Jul 1995 13:30:15 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Mike Quimby Subject: Re: Ants Hi all! I too just recently had ant problems above the inner cover. I went to the Indiana beekeeper assoc. meeting a month ago and asked how to get rid of the ants....well, I got several different answers, but they all claimed they worked for them. I was told to pick what was comfortable and go with it. Sprikling comet was one. Ant poison was another (I did not do this one). Another was proping up the telescoping cover from the inner cover with little sticks (the ants like the tight space), and, lastly, sprinkling Diatomaceous Earth or Celite on the inner cover. The last is good for slugs in the garden too! For me, ended up changing covers and moving my bees to my new farm! Peace, Mike Quimby....hoping to expand next year with 2 recently discovered bee trees! (if they swarm) From: QUIMBY MICHAEL E (MCVAX0::RK81239) To: FOREIGN TRANSPORT ADDRESSEE (MCDEV1::IN%"BEE-L@UACSC2.ALBANY.EDU") ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 Jul 1995 12:37:05 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Subject: Re: Ants In-Reply-To: <199507101732.NAA122816@poe.acc.Virginia.EDU> On Mon, 10 Jul 1995, Paul Madden wrote: > I am having a problem with ants colonizing between the inner > cover and the telescoping cover. I've been controlling (?) the > ants by removing both covers and replacing them with "clean" > ones, but I'm wondering if there's any good way to control them > that's more permanent. For one thing these (red/black) ants sting, > and they hurt. They also get all over everything, and drive the > bees nuts when they fall down into the hive. We use an ant poison based on Diazanon (sp?). It's actually a granular maggot/grub killer that comes in a shaker at your local hardware store for about $8. Just sprinkle a little of this around the hive or under it and the ant problem disappears. Be careful not to get it in the hive. That's why we use the granlar - wind doesn't blow it onto the doorstep. You can also use the liquid types based on borax, but I'm afraid that bees might rob it because it is sweet. You can also use 1/3 washing borax and two thirds icing sugar to make an ant killer, but you have to be sure your bees don't pick it up. Place it in a place the bees can't get into like between two close spaced pieces of plywood or such. Allen W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper VE6CFK Rural Route One Swalwell Alberta Canada T0M 1Y0 Email: dicka@cuug.ab.ca or allend@internode.net Futures, Art & Honey:http://www.cuug.ab.ca:8001/~dicka ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 Jul 1995 07:56:10 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Moote, John M." Subject: Re: Dyes and Bees After I posted to BEE-L about a new pesticide, I have had several discussions with Jim De Quattro concerning a short summary appearing in "Inside R & D". Jim works for the USDA. To recap, the article was on a new dye that is toxic to insects but not to mammals. My comment was that "they still don't get it" and that it did not appear that anyone was concerned with "apis". I found out two things... 1. The Internet is a much larger forum than you might imagine and 2. I was probably 180 degrees off target... with permission, Jim's comments... ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------- John, A colleague who subscribes to the list sent me a copy of your message, since I've written about some aspects of the dye research. You correctly noted that Inside R&D's story about fruit fly-killing dyes addressed the issues of whether the dyes were safe for mammals and crops--but it ignored bees and beneficials. The dye blend mentioned in Inside R&D is SureDye--not a USDA invention but an experimental product of PhotoDye, Inc., Linthicum, Md. But, scientists at USDA's Agricultural Research Service have been testing the dyes against fruit flies for about two years. [The blend was developed about 1982 by James Heitz. He is a chemist at Mississippi State University, and president of PhotoDye. The dye is not a registered insecticide.] Inside R&D chose--probably based on assessing what their own audience would most likely want to know--not to address bees and other beneficials. But the researchers are. Feel free to follow up with them about the dye and beneficials. It won't be the first time they've been asked! Against fruit flies, the dye--ASSUMING it passes muster with researchers and regulatory agencies--MIGHT be used as an aerial spray, or in bait stations. According to the scientists, an insect has to ingest the dye for it to be toxic. This doesn't mean a bee could not ingest it, but it apparently wouldn't act as a contact insecticide like malathion. Can something that is imperfect--but better than (or not as "bad" as) malathion--be an acceptable alternative? Personally, I think yes. Could the dye become an acceptable alternative? Maybe, but I don't think enough evidence is in. I think the researchers would basically agree with that. Besides, acceptable to whom? To contact the ARS research teams: Robert Mangan, Crop Quality & Fruit Insects Research unit, Weslaco, Texas, phone (510) 565-2647; Nick Liquido, Tropical Fruit & Vegetable Research Laboratory, Hilo, Hawaii, phone (808) 959-4300. --Jim De Quattro, Writer/editor Information Staff, USDA Agricultural Research Service Internet jdequatt@asrr.arsusda.gov Phone (301) 344-2756, Fax (301) 344-2311 6303 Ivy Lane, Room 443, Greenbelt MD 20770 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 Jul 1995 13:57:58 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ludwig Rokus Subject: Bee pollen and "critters" (fwd) Multiple recipients address correction. ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Mon, 10 Jul 1995 13:38:19 -0700 (PDT) From: Ludwig Rokus To: bee-l@uacs2.albany.edu Subject: Bee pollen and "critters" Hi netters, While doing a sample prep on bee pollen for further chromatographic analysis I've found 5 out of 62 samples infested with maggots or worm like creatures. Despite the fact that prior reaching the lab,the samples were stored for 2 month at the room temp. warehouse and the worms were quite alive and energetic. When transferred into an open container they started to climb up the walls and tried to escape. Using a pair of tweezers and a gentle touch we counted >100 of them and stored them in a separate container along with some bee pollen for further identification. The only difference from previous conditions was that we added 3 or 4 drops of tap water(L.A.county) thinking that the added moisture might improve their environment. The next day, they were all dead. The worms appeared to be approx. 1 cm in length ,slim and hairy. The color off-white. Does anyone have a similar experience seeing them in bee pollen and might know who the winged parent is ? Ludwig L.Rokus Valencia,Calif. email ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 Jul 1995 16:36:36 +0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Rick Fell Subject: Re: Bee pollen and "critters" (fwd) Ludwig: In reference to your question the insects are probably Indian meal moths (Plodia interpunctella), although they could be another meal moth species or similar Pyralid moth. I have had samples of pollen sent to me with Indian meal moth larvae and know that they will develop in bee pollen. The larvae spin silken threads as they feed and craw,l and the webbing can usually be seen if the pollen is examined carefully. The life cycle usually requires 4-6 weeks in the summer. Rick >Multiple recipients address correction. > >---------- Forwarded message ---------- >Date: Mon, 10 Jul 1995 13:38:19 -0700 (PDT) >From: Ludwig Rokus >To: bee-l@uacs2.albany.edu >Subject: Bee pollen and "critters" > >Hi netters, >While doing a sample prep on bee pollen for further chromatographic analysis >I've found 5 out of 62 samples infested with maggots or worm like creatures. >Despite the fact that prior reaching the lab,the samples were stored for 2 >month at the room temp. warehouse and the worms were quite alive and >energetic. When transferred into an open container they started to climb up >the walls and tried to escape. Using a pair of tweezers and a gentle touch >we counted >100 of them and stored them in a separate container along with >some bee pollen for further identification. The only difference from previous >conditions was that we added 3 or 4 drops of tap water(L.A.county) thinking >that the added moisture might improve their environment. The next day, they >were all dead. >The worms appeared to be approx. 1 cm in length ,slim and hairy. >The color off-white. >Does anyone have a similar experience seeing them in bee pollen and might >know who the winged parent is ? > >Ludwig L.Rokus >Valencia,Calif. >email > Richard Fell e-mail: rfell@vt.edu Department of Entomology, Virginia Tech Blacksburg, VA 24061 703-231-7207 Fax 703-231-9131 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 Jul 1995 22:04:57 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Bill Miller Subject: Re: Ants Paul, I use plywood inner covers and they tend to get ants. To control the ants, I seal all the joints in the inner cover with propolis (just like the bees would if they could get to the joints), and I also turn over the inner cover every so often so the bees can get to the ants. Saw a lot of other good ideas posted. Good luck! Bill Miller Gaithersburg, MD ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 Jul 1995 22:17:14 +1030 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jean-Pierre Chapleau Subject: Re: Plastic frames, foundatio... In-Reply-To: <950710121503_29535769@aol.com> I just bought 8000 Pierco plastic frames. I had bought 3000 last year. I like them very much. I think they are a very good investment. The plastic otion is cheaper than the traditional wooden frame and wax foundation on the long run. Plus they are easy to desinfect in case of disease. They are well accepted by the bees during a honey flow. Like Brian, I also recommand putting ten in a super for good results. I use the unwaxed and have no problem to have them drawn. Nevertheless I have noticed that weak colonies do not draw them as well as strong colonies. I am progressively converting my operation to plastic only. _______________________________ ~ |_____JEAN-PIERRE CHAPLEAU______| ~ bee breeder |1282, rang 8, Saint-Adrien,| ~ | Quebec, Canada, J0A 1C0 | vice president of the Canadian Honey Council | phone: (819) 828-3396 | ~ ~ | fax: (819) 828-0357 | ~ ~ | chapleau@scuzzy.fmmo.ca | ~ ~ |______________________________~ ~ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 Jul 1995 15:56:03 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: WILLIAM G LORD Subject: sick bees I was going through some of my bees today that had just come off cucumber pollination and noticed some strange symptoms. I saw dead larvae and pupae, usually confined to single frames in a hive, and the hive had a bad odor. I pulled honey June 1 and put on TM grease patties, have no history of AFB, and this stuff didn't rope. It doesn't look like EFB either. I have low to moderate Varroa infestations, having treated last fall, and I am about to treat again. Is anyone else seeing symptoms like this? I have a feeling it is the "mite complex" or whatever. I have requeened the worst hives, and going to give all concerned another shot of TM and Apistan. What do you guys think? Bill Lord Louisburg, NC -- WILLIAM G LORD E-Mail : wglord@franklin Internet: wglord@franklin.ces.ncsu.edu Phone : 9194963344 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 Jul 1995 16:01:37 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: WILLIAM G LORD Subject: queens After 10 years of rearing my own queens, in part as a rationale that I might isolate my operation from the rapid onslaught of mites and other maladies (with very little success), I began purchasing queens again last year. To say I have been disappointed is an understatement. There is TREMENDOUS variability out there, a lot of it bad. I have purchased queens from 5 different suppliers this year alone, usually in 25 queen lots, just to give them a fair trial. I am wondering if it would be offensive if we had a discussion as to the merits of different queens on this list? I have no desire to tear anyone down, but I would like to know who has good stock, particularly for my part of the country, and I don't mind passing on my observations. Bill Lord Louisburg, NC -- WILLIAM G LORD E-Mail : wglord@franklin Internet: wglord@franklin.ces.ncsu.edu Phone : 9194963344 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 Jul 1995 07:44:41 +0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Rick Fell Subject: Re: sick bees Bill: Sounds alot like the bee parasitic mite syndrome described by Shimanuki and coworkers from the Beltsville Bee Lab. Shim has described a number of the symptoms which include spotty brood pattern, Varroa infestation, infected 'c' stage larvae similar to EFB, dead pupae similar to AFB (without being ropey) or sacbrood, affected brood light brown in color, scales light brown to black and easy to remove. You might want to contact Shimanuki at the Beltsville Lab and get a more complete story. Rick >I was going through some of my bees today that had just come off >cucumber pollination and noticed some strange symptoms. I saw dead >larvae and pupae, usually confined to single frames in a hive, and >the hive had a bad odor. I pulled honey June 1 and put on TM >grease patties, have no history of AFB, and this stuff didn't rope. >It doesn't look like EFB either. I have low to moderate Varroa >infestations, having treated last fall, and I am about to treat >again. Is anyone else seeing symptoms like this? I have a feeling >it is the "mite complex" or whatever. I have requeened the worst >hives, and going to give all concerned another shot of TM and >Apistan. What do you guys think? > >Bill Lord >Louisburg, NC >-- >WILLIAM G LORD >E-Mail : wglord@franklin >Internet: wglord@franklin.ces.ncsu.edu >Phone : 9194963344 > Richard Fell e-mail: rfell@vt.edu Department of Entomology, Virginia Tech Blacksburg, VA 24061 703-231-7207 Fax 703-231-9131 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 Jul 1995 10:00:55 +22300129 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Adam Finkelstein Subject: Re: queens In-Reply-To: <9507101601.AA02188@franklin.ces.ncsu.edu> from "WILLIAM G LORD" at Jul 10, 95 04:01:37 pm WILLIAM G LORD wrote: > > After 10 years of rearing my own queens, in part as a rationale > that I might isolate my operation from the rapid onslaught of mites > and other maladies (with very little success), I began purchasing > queens again last year. To say I have been disappointed is an > understatement. > trial. I am wondering if it would be offensive if we had a > discussion as to the merits of different queens on this list? A suggestion: why not take this _extremely interesting_ topic to the beekeeping newsgroup: sci.agriculture.beekeeping? Usenet is better suited for this type of conversation. Yes? Adam -- ______________________________________ Adam Finkelstein adamf@vtaix.cc.vt.edu ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 Jul 1995 10:15:59 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Boyd C Dickens Subject: Re: queens Bill, I buy my bees from Ross Hatkins, in Elkton, MD, not because his bees are more consistent or a better breed of bees, it's just because he's local and is more service oriented. He only sells grey bees but occassionaly I still get queens that have yellow young. I think that breeds are so intermingled that there are no pure breeds left and if there are I hav'nt come across them. I agree with you Bill I think we need to have a discussion on this mailing lists to see which breeders are delivering better stock than others. I thought that was the reason that we had this mailing list, to share our experiences and information with others. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 Jul 1995 14:06:04 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jeffrey Young Subject: York Bee Supply # ? I forgot my price list at home and would like to order a queen today. Would you have York Bee's order telephone number available? Please respond to address below. If you are reading this after Monday (7/10/95) @ 5 PM please disregard. Thanks! jeff Jeffrey_Young@crd.lotus.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 Jul 1995 10:22:15 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Carl Mueller Subject: Re: queens Bill Lord wrote: >There is TREMENDOUS variability out there, a lot of it bad. >I am wondering if it would be offensive if we had a >discussion as to the merits of different queens on this list? I >have no desire to tear anyone down, but I would like to know who >has good stock, particularly for my part of the country, and I >don't mind passing on my observations. > >Bill Lord >Louisburg, NC >-- >WILLIAM G LORD >E-Mail : wglord@franklin >Internet: wglord@franklin.ces.ncsu.edu >Phone : 9194963344 > I think that everyone would benefit from such knowledge. I am sure though that some of the breeders are probably members of this list and might be offended to see negative remarks about their product. Perhaps we should keep the information to what could be done to create a better product. No one can improve the quality of their product without feedback from the customers. Carl Mueller Email: cmueller@emi.net West Palm Beach, Florida USA " Knowledge is where you find it." " Seek and Ye shall find, knock and it will be opened onto you!" ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 Jul 1995 11:47:37 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Chris Coplan Subject: Re: queens >>WILLIAM G LORD wrote: >> >> I am wondering if it would be offensive if we had a >> discussion as to the merits of different queens on this list? >Adam Finkelstein wrote >A suggestion: why not take this _extremely interesting_ topic to the >beekeeping newsgroup: sci.agriculture.beekeeping? > >Usenet is better suited for this type of conversation. >Yes? ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Unfortunately, because of some peoples internet access (some only having email, not usenet, hence one of the reason for founding listservs) - some topics are duplicated on the usenet as well - Anyway, I got my first hive (queen & 4lbs bees) at Wilbanks Apiaries in GA and they are doing great thus far - in the first 3 weeks they ate 1 qt. sugar syrup/day, and filled the first hive body with brood, pollen and honey. I've just put the 2nd hive body on, although they've slowed down on the sugar syrup, and general activity (I assume they are about at there lowest population, as the old bees are starting to die off.) I will probably purchase more packages next spring, so am interested in hearing other peoples experiences with queens / and or / packaged bee suppliers - I'll probably stick with Wilbanks unless I hear something out of the ordinary - but its good to know about other suppliers just the same.... Chris Coplan ccoplan@infi.net (Maidens, VA) ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 Jul 1995 09:05:37 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Richard Spear Subject: Re: queens In-Reply-To: <9507101601.AA02188@franklin.ces.ncsu.edu> I would appreciate a discussion about suppliers. I can't contribute but would listen very carefully to opinions about queen sources. I don't think that we would violate any netiquette standards with a talk like this one. Richard On Mon, 10 Jul 1995, WILLIAM G LORD wrote > I am wondering if it would be offensive if we had a > discussion as to the merits of different queens on this list? I > have no desire to tear anyone down, but I would like to know who > has good stock, particularly for my part of the country, and I > don't mind passing on my observations. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 Jul 1995 12:55:59 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Carl Mueller Subject: Queens Bill Lord wrote: >There is TREMENDOUS variability out there, a lot of it bad. >I am wondering if it would be offensive if we had a >discussion as to the merits of different queens on this list? I >have no desire to tear anyone down, but I would like to know who >has good stock, particularly for my part of the country, and I >don't mind passing on my observations. > >Bill Lord >Louisburg, NC >-- >WILLIAM G LORD >E-Mail : wglord@franklin >Internet: wglord@franklin.ces.ncsu.edu >Phone : 9194963344 > I think that everyone would benefit from such knowledge. I am sure though that some of the breeders are probably members of this list and might be offended to see negative remarks about their product. Perhaps we should keep the information to what could be done to create a better product. No one can improve the quality of their product without feedback from the customers. Carl Mueller Email: cmueller@emi.net West Palm Beach, Florida USA " Knowledge is where you find it." " Seek and Ye shall find, knock and it will be opened onto you!" ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 Jul 1995 10:22:18 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Joseph Cooper Subject: Re: Ants In-Reply-To: <950710220454_112049231@aol.com> As for ants on the inner cover. Comet cleanser-carefully sprinkeled so as to avoid the bee-escape hole-- sometimes works to get rid of the rascals. I do not know whether other cleansers would work as well or better. ************************* * Joseph Cooper * * jcooper@infinet.com * ************************* ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 Jul 1995 14:33:00 CST6CDT Reply-To: Bajema@dordt.edu Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Duane H. Bajema" Organization: Dordt College Subject: Re: queens Comments: To: Richard Spear Date sent: Tue, 11 Jul 1995 09:05:37 -0700 Send reply to: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Richard Spear Subject: Re: queens To: Multiple recipients of list BEE-L I would appreciate a discussion about suppliers. I can't contribute but would listen very carefully to opinions about queen sources. I don't think that we would violate any netiquette standards with a talk like this one. Richard I appreciate your comments. I am one who would complain vigoursly based on three years of experience, but my comments really concern a lack of service ie. sending packages or queens on time, answering phone calls, or responding to letters. I am quite reluctant to give a negative review and feel that complaints should be handled on a personal basis rather than in the public area. On the other hand, I would not like anyone else to be in a predicament similar to mine. Would anyone provide guidelines or ground rules for carrying on such a discussion? ------------------------------------------------------------ Duane H. Bajema e-mail bajema@dordt.edu Agriculture Department 712/722-6275 office Dordt College 712/722-1198 FAX Sioux Center, IA 51250 ------------------------------------------------------------ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 Jul 1995 19:48:04 GMT Reply-To: Gordon@apis.demon.co.uk Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Gordon Scott Subject: Re: queens Bill Lord writes: > I am wondering if it would be offensive if we had a > discussion as to the merits of different queens on this list? I > have no desire to tear anyone down, but I would like to know who > has good stock, particularly for my part of the country, and I > don't mind passing on my observations. Hi, This should be a great subject for discussion. I'm not sure how much of the variation is due to the breeders themselves and how much is due to the environment into which the queens go. A couple of examples: I had a south-island New Zealand queen a few years back, whose workers were out just about *all* hours in all temperatures, but there often wasn't a honey flow whilst they were working so *here* they ate all they collected; A popular world-famous line of bee was bred to not start the year too early -- now in the UK we have oil seed rape almost everywhere and we *need* them early. Additionally, people have different expectations of their bees. Some like them very gentle; some like them rather spiky; some want minimal swarming at the expense of everything else; Some want honey getting, never mind a bit of swarm control. Everyone wants disease resistance, but there may have to be a trade off for some other characteristic for a while at least. I think the breeders should find the feedback useful. However if we mention particular suppliers, we need to say that John Doe's bees were a bit too spiky for me, here, this season. The bee breeders will be doing their best to get what they want and what they believe their customers want, but they can't please all of the people, all of the time. It would be very sad (and possibly disasterous) if they all ended up breeding a virtually identical bee to suit the same 60% of the population. Regards, -- Gordon Scott Gordon@apis.demon.co.uk 100332,3310 on CompuServe Newsletter Beekeeper@apis.demon.co.uk ditto Beekeeper, Kendo Sandan, sometime sailor. Basingstoke, Hampshire, RG22 5HP, UK ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 Jul 1995 22:35:01 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "La Reine de la Cite' des Phoques (Liz Day)" Subject: Re: queens Perhaps the discussion could be kept non-slanderous if it were mainly about the merits of different types of queens, with no comments on the other business aspects (price, service) of the suppliers. It would be less personal. ? Liz Day LDAY@indy.net Indianapolis, Indiana, central USA ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 Jul 1995 00:02:46 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Mike High Subject: Re: queens Are you sure you're not expecting too much from a queen?Nobody is selling such awesome queens the world is beating a path to the door(That I am aware of)I have had good sucess w/ York apiary in Georgia.I have ordered both swarms & queens and been satisfied with both.Lets face that mites are a part of bee-keeping until resistant strains are developed.Also what race of bee are you keeping?I prefer the midnight hybrids but others may not. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 Jul 1995 00:21:26 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: CW Honey Subject: Re: Bee pollen and "critters" (fwd) Sounds like wax moth larvae to me. Have seen it many times. I freeze my pollen for at least 24 hours in a deep freeze to kill any such critters. See Ya Later, Walt in So. Arizona ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 Jul 1995 21:59:07 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Kim Patten Subject: Re: insecticides and bee poisoning I work on a crop- cranberries, which requires honey bees for pollination. One problem we have is that farmers have to spray for fireworm when the bees are still being used. Most farmers wait until the bees are gone until they spray, others spray at night. By the next day their doesn't usally appear to be too much effect on the bees. I am evaluating the merits of various insecticides that are labelled on cranberries for their abiltiy to kill fireworm yet have no effect on the bees. One of the big problems are that the insecticides are usally put out throught the irrigation system - ie high volume 500-1000gpa. This tends to reduce efficacy. My questions are these - Does anyone have data/experience that sublethal doses of an insecticide like guthion will dramatically reduce pollen collection by bee for long periods following spraying? Does anyone have experience with trying to reduce bee poisoning by irrigating the spray off in the morning, following an evening spray? Does anyone have experience with sevin XLR - it is suppose to be fairly safe if it can dry on the leaf surface. What about if it gets rewetted after spraying by irrigation? Is it now more toxic than before? ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 Jul 1995 01:54:09 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Dave D. Cawley, a De Leon Socialist" Subject: Re: queens > From: "La Reine de la Cite' des Phoques (Liz Day)" > Perhaps the discussion could be kept non-slanderous if it were > mainly about the merits of different types of queens, with no > comments on the other business aspects (price, service) of > the suppliers. It would be less personal. I don't understand why you want to not talk about the quality of the vendor...if they're good, they deserve business, if they're not good they deserve what they get. If I got ripped off by Jim Bob's and he does it to everybody, would you want me to tell you before or after you gave Jim Bob your hard earned cash? ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Dave D. Cawley | The information on the Internet is only University Of Scranton | interesting to people who are interested Scranton, Pennsylvania | in it. dave@scranton.com | -Scranton Tomorrow Spokeswoman ddc1@jaguar.uofs.edu | refusing invitation to Internet Cafe's opening ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 Jul 1995 08:11:08 GMT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: MEMO 1995/07/12 08:32 From: John E III Taylor Subject: Re[2]: queens Maybe some experience from another area would be helpful on this topic. Over on the model-railroad newsgroup they talk quite unabashedly about mail-order vendors. There's been only one vendor who was consistently trashed, and that was because of many unfilled orders; this vendor apparently was in the process of going out of business. The on-line comments probably saved several people from placing orders that would never be filled. For the other vendors, there are mixed comments reflecting the priorities of the individual purchasers. If one dealer gives great service but costs more, and another is a pain to deal with but has outstanding merchandise, it's worth knowing these points. I suspect most queen suppliers will fall into the "mixed-comment" category; none except a real rip-off is likely to be consistently trashed. John E. Taylor III W3ZID | "The opinions expressed are those of the E-Mail: mah48d@rohmhaas.com | writer and not of Rohm and Haas Company." _______________________________________________________________________________ >> From: "La Reine de la Cite' des Phoques (Liz Day)" >> Perhaps the discussion could be kept non-slanderous if it were >> mainly about the merits of different types of queens, with no >> comments on the other business aspects (price, service) of >> the suppliers. It would be less personal. > > I don't understand why you want to not talk about the quality >of the vendor...if they're good, they deserve business, if they're not >good they deserve what they get. If I got ripped off by Jim Bob's and >he does it to everybody, would you want me to tell you before or after >you gave Jim Bob your hard earned cash? ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 Jul 1995 08:27:36 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Aaron Morris Subject: Queen and package suppliers Comments: To: bee-l@ALBANY.BITNET Personally I don't have a problem with posts regarding queen suppliers, either good or bad. After all, supplying queens is a business and we are the customers and we're always right! As long as we avoid slanderous statements and libel, we have the first amendment to protect us. I got stock this spring that I am not totally satisfied with, but it was from a local supplier that I tried out because I could pick up my bees in person and avoid the EXCESSIVE postal delivery fees. Based on a few months of working these bees, I'm not ready to make statements, good or bad about this supplier and will not do so. I can however tell the story behind my dissatisfaction. I purchased four 3 lb packages, all of which were in good shape. However, one of the packages came with queen and entourage, all of which were dead. I called the supplier and received a replacement in the mail (at no extra expense to me) the day after I notified the supplier. I had just started a new location and hived two of the packages at this site. When I brought the replacement queen to the queenless hive I discovered that most of the bees from the queenless hive had drifted to the queenright hive, so now I had a queen, but very few bees left in her hive. Rather than introduce her to what was now estimated to be less than a pound of bees, I shook the remaining bees in front of the queenright hive and used the replacement queen to make a split from one of my existing hives at another location. So I paid for four packages and ended up with three new hives and a split, which was not totally to my satisfaction. I tried to procure a replacement package, but at this point the supplier was only able to provide a nuc a few weeks later at full price. The savings I'd anticipated by avoiding the EXCESSIVE postage fees disappeared, and it would not be totally out of line to fault the supplier. But since this was my first experience with the supplier I'll cut them some slack. I would have been more satisfied had there been some sort of reduction in the price of the nuc, but I didn't press the issue. I have no complaints about the other three packages or the nuc and I will probably do business with them again to see if I am more satisfied. In previous seasons, before postal fees skyrocketed(!) I got my packages and queens from Weaver's Apiaries in Navistota, Texas. I can only say good things about Weaver's - they are always courteous on the phone, are usually close to the mark regarding delivery dates and their stock has never been anything short of excellent! They are a little pricey, but within a dollar or two or three of what I consider average. I also buy queens from Rossman Apiaries (I believe they're in Georgia, but I only have their phone number in my files under "Dial-A-Queen"). Rossman is also very courteous on the phone, very good at delivering when requested, provide excellent queens and can usually deliver queens on very short notice (call early today, queen late tomorrow). The only drawback with Rossman's is that they only raise Italian queens. So, that's my 2 cents worth. I'd be interested in other's experience. I'm not looking for suppliers to avoid, as I've established accounts with suppliers that meet my needs. I think I pay a few dollars more to these suppliers, but hey, they have to pay for those nice advertisements in ABJ! And I don't mind paying a few dollars more when the suppliers supply a good product in a service oriented manner. I suspect that if one shops for bargains they have to be prepared to sacrifice quality or service or both. I guess it's a trade off of how tolerant one can be vs how much money they want to "save". Personally I'd rather pay than tolerate. Aaron Morris - thinking it's shaping up to be a good honey year! ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 Jul 1995 09:07:26 CST6CDT Reply-To: Bajema@dordt.edu Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Duane H. Bajema" Organization: Dordt College Subject: queens I am reluctant to speak negatively about a supplier, but I am upset enough to venture out into the list. I have had some less than pleasant experiences with Huck Babcock of Blue Ridge Apiaries located in North Carolina. Before I go into any details, has anyone else had experiences with this supplier? ------------------------------------------------------------ Duane H. Bajema e-mail bajema@dordt.edu Agriculture Department 712/722-6275 office Dordt College 712/722-1198 FAX Sioux Center, IA 51250 ------------------------------------------------------------ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 Jul 1995 07:56:49 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Whitney S. Cranshaw" Subject: Re: insecticides and bee poisoning The best work I know of regarding hazards of insecticides to honeybees is done by WSU people. I suggest you contact Daniel Mayer at Prosser. His phone number is (509) 786-2226. He and Carl Johansen (now retired) have done most of the work on this subject. >I work on a crop- cranberries, which requires honey bees for pollination. >One problem we have is that farmers have to spray for fireworm when the bees >are still being used. Most farmers wait until the bees are gone until they >spray, others spray at night. By the next day their doesn't usally appear >to be too much effect on the bees. I am evaluating the merits of various >insecticides that are labelled on cranberries for their abiltiy to kill >fireworm yet have no effect on the bees. One of the big problems are that >the insecticides are usally put out throught the irrigation system - ie high >volume 500-1000gpa. This tends to reduce efficacy. > >My questions are these - > >Does anyone have data/experience that sublethal doses of an insecticide like >guthion will dramatically reduce pollen collection by bee for long periods >following spraying? > >Does anyone have experience with trying to reduce bee poisoning by >irrigating the spray off in the morning, following an evening spray? > >Does anyone have experience with sevin XLR - it is suppose to be fairly safe >if it can dry on the leaf surface. What about if it gets rewetted after >spraying by irrigation? Is it now more toxic than before? > > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 Jul 1995 10:12:30 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Dave Green, Eastern Pollinator Newsletter" Subject: Re: queens In a message dated 95-07-12 00:05:46 EDT, MLHIGH@DELPHI.COM (Mike High) wrote: >Are you sure you're not expecting too much from a queen? Absolutely not! The queen is everything. After the spring and early summer, where we are raising queens and making increase, my main purpose throughout the rest of the season is to cull the junk. Breeding is the single most important item in any livestock production, and bees are no exception. This thread could be highly informative, if *politeness* doesn't get in the way. Just the facts, ma'am..... It would be easy to raise production queens, and sell them cheap. I could raise them by the thousands. But I have never gotten into commercial queen rearing, because I know how much it takes to make a quality queen, and I only have about enough time and energy to make my own. There are a number of southern queen breeders that do raise production (rather than quality) queens, and they often overbook, so then they scramble to find other suppliers. You may not be aware how much some of these production guys trade around, and I won't do business with someone who trades around. Who knows what you get! In the south, in my book Reggie Wilbanks stands out. Weaver is also top notch. A young New York breeder, Bob Brachmann, I think is up and coming. I haven't used his queens personally, but I have worked with him and seen his stock (very nice!) and his systems of selection and quality control, and I think he's going to go places. There are other small breeders which do not advertise, but have all the sales they can handle through word of mouth, because they produce a high quality product. I have used a lot of Homer Park queens, which used to be so different (the queens lay all the time!), that they required different management, but I loved them. As long as you took into account their characteristics, you could do wonderful things with them. Lately, with Homer not so involved, I think they are not such a standout, though still a good queen. Some principles: 1. El cheapos are strictly production queens. It takes too much input to make a quality queen to sell her cheap. You'd be bankrupt if you tried. ie. Miserly beekeepers cannot get good queens. 2. There are also high priced queens which are not quality, but make their sales based on hype. Caveat emptor. 3. Get three or four good reliable sources, then rotate, so you don't wind up with all one stock. (You don't want inbred supercedures, do you?) That also gives you some comparisons and a learning experience. 4. If you have enough hives so that you can do some selection, and more than one location, you'd gain by trying a little queen rearing yourself. You want at least one isolated spot without other bees around, so that you can mostly control drone populations. (These spots are easier to find than they used to be.) Use your best stock to raise mamas and the also-rans to raise papas. Pollinator@aol.com Dave Green PO Box 1215, Hemingway, SC 29554 *Beekeeping is a higher state of consciousness. -So are fresh figs.* ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 Jul 1995 03:37:47 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Moote, John M." Subject: Re: Queens I bought my 3 lb package of bees and Midnight queen through Dadant from York Apiaries in Jessup, GA. They updated me twice by mail of the target ship date. They hit the final target date within three days and beat out local Michigan suppliers (who drive down to GA and bring back orders) by two to three weeks. They answered my phone calls and provided all the information I needed. So far, the bees are doing great! I have about 40 lbs of honey already plus the two large brood chambers filled out nicely. They have a mild temperament, draw wax a little reluctantly, haven't swarmed and appear to be disease-free. The propolis has been manageable but I have no other hives to compare. I think a fellow beekeeping friend was surprised at my good fortune as a beginner, but it was the bees, not me! I can recommend York. I may try Weaver next year, perhaps Buckfast after all the interesting BEE-L discussion. I may also order a Starline queen from Dadant/York. John Moote Mootejm@BASF-Corp.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 Jul 1995 12:24:13 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Kenny Bailey Subject: Re: queens Comments: To: Bajema@bigbad!dordt.edu In-Reply-To: <1DD5FFC1544@defender1.dordt.edu> from "Duane H. Bajema" at Jul 12, 95 09:07:26 am Blue Ridge Apiaries is not located in North Carolina. They are located in Cayce-West Columbia, South Carolina. > >I am reluctant to speak negatively about a supplier, but I am upset >enough to venture out into the list. > >I have had some less than pleasant experiences with Huck Babcock of >Blue Ridge Apiaries located in North Carolina. Before I go into any >details, has anyone else had experiences with this supplier? > > >------------------------------------------------------------ >Duane H. Bajema e-mail bajema@dordt.edu >Agriculture Department 712/722-6275 office >Dordt College 712/722-1198 FAX >Sioux Center, IA 51250 >------------------------------------------------------------ > -- Kenny W Bailey E-Mail : kbailey@cumberla Internet: kbailey@cumberla.ces.ncsu.edu Phone : (910) 484-7156 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 Jul 1995 14:24:50 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: WILLIAM G LORD Subject: queens continued I appreciate Dave Green weighing in on the queen topic. I have had good experiences with Wilbanks and Parks (as well as son-in-law of Park named Wooten). The queens are everything, but service is right up there too. I ordered 50 queens from Spell Bee Company last week on the advice of a beekeeping friend for a trial. When I discovered I had to leave town for a couple of days I called up, got Mrs. Spell, and they were able to get me the order 3 days early. I was leery of Spell's queens because they were cheap ($4.00 each), and when I called up they added .35 per queen for Apistan. It was a bit of deceptive advertising, but I wasn't price shopping. I used to buy queens from Hardeman in Ga. and have 50 on trial this year. The jury is out on them. They looked good early on, good buildup, good temperament, but as the season progresses they are showing a lot of variability, or I have had a lot of supersedure. I will let you know later. I ordered some Starlines last summer to give them a trial again and was most disappointed. But Starlines are a whole topic (and potential can of worms) unto themselves. I would like to hear some evaluations of the ARS-Y-C-1 queens if anyone has had any in the harness. Bill Lord Louisburg, NC -- WILLIAM G LORD E-Mail : wglord@franklin Internet: wglord@franklin.ces.ncsu.edu Phone : 9194963344 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 Jul 1995 07:49:30 +0000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Keith Hooker Organization: Technology Management Ltd Subject: Re: insecticides and bee poisoning > I work on a crop- cranberries, which requires honey bees for pollination. I worked on raspberries and other top fruit > Does anyone have data/experience that sublethal doses of an insecticide like > guthion will dramatically reduce pollen collection by bee for long periods > following spraying? A number of insecticides and fungicides have repellant affects, this reduces foraging on the crops following spraying. This has been observed in the field and confirmed in published papers. > Does anyone have experience with sevin XLR - it is suppose to be fairly safe > if it can dry on the leaf surface. What about if it gets rewetted after > spraying by irrigation? Is it now more toxic than before? If you are refering to Sevin that I used to use on top fruit post blossom, it is absolutely deadly when sprayed as it is carried back to the colony on the pollen and has effects for months to come. The wetting and drying effects you mention have not been observed. My guidelines were always to spray very early or very late in the day and with chemicals that were environmentally as well as user friendly Keith >>> Keith JM Hooker <<< >>> Technology Management Ltd <<< >>> WHITSTABLE Kent CT5 4ED UK <<< ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 Jul 1995 16:18:12 -0500 Reply-To: "Jim G. Shoemaker" Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Jim G. Shoemaker" Subject: Queens I think the discussion of the merits of the various queen suppliers is fine, however, why not be more inclusive and a little more scientific and reliable? There are a number of suscribers to the Bee-l who have excellent investigative skills (I am not one of them) and who might be willing to put together a survey/research type program that could give us a tremendous amount of reliable information. I feel there is a need to catagorize queens by race, etc., beekeepers by size, geographic local, major activity, honey, pollinization, etc., and queens by a inclusive list of characteristics. With the suggestions of bee-l members a comprehensive questionairre could be developed and administered by e/mail. One/some of our members could certainly give the collected data the analysis that would answer, reliably, the many questions this might generate. It might also be worth considering to giving breeders the option of being included in the study. An activity of this type certainly does not preclude our open discussion of breeders on a "seat of the pants, shoot from the hip" fashion. These are my thoughts, how about some reaction (hopefully not too many flames). Jim Shoemaker 5160 S. Western Brookline, MO 65619 (near Springfield and Bass Pro Shop) As our Internet provider will be down from July 17-21, I will be off-line and will return on July 22 with a new address (jshoemak@mail.orion.org). ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 Jul 1995 18:30:22 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Steven A. Davis" Subject: Help with honey plants. Hello out there. I have a few questions for you more experienced bee keepers. My bees are continuing to draw comb and store honey even though the large blackberry honey flow is now over. I can't figure out where the current flow is comming from. Queen Annes Lace, Bachelors Button, Sweet Pea, White Clover and Purple Thistle are each present in rather smallish roadside quantity. Can anyone comment on the probability that any of these plants are the source of the flow? I am also interested to know which you all think are definately not the honey flow source. In addition, can anyone suggest a good book that describes honey plants and their relative importance in honey manufacture. I am particularly interested in a book that covers Western plants well. (speak out western bee keepers) Thanks to everyone in advance for your help. Steven A. Davis Clackamas Co. , Oregon pmgeophys@aol.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 Jul 1995 02:15:00 +0200 Reply-To: DURK ELLISON Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: DURK ELLISON Organization: Metropoli, Finland Subject: Queens > From: jshoemak@OZARKS.SGCL.LIB.MO.US (Reply-To: jshoemak@ozarks.sgcl.lib.mo.us) > , JIM G SHOEMAKER > Subj: Queens > I think the discussion of the merits of the various queen suppliers is fine, > however, why not be more inclusive and a little more scientific and reliable? > There are a number of suscribers to the Bee-l who have excellent > investigative skills (I am not one of them) and who might be willing to > put together a survey/research type program that could give us a > tremendous amount of reliable information. > I feel there is a need to catagorize queens by race, etc., beekeepers by > size, geographic local, major activity, honey, pollinization, etc., and > queens by a inclusive list of characteristics. > With the suggestions of bee-l members a comprehensive questionairre could > be developed and administered by e/mail. One/some of our members could > certainly give the collected data the analysis that would answer, reliably, > the many questions this might generate. > It might also be worth considering to giving breeders the option of being > included in the study. > An activity of this type certainly does not preclude our open discussion > of breeders on a "seat of the pants, shoot from the hip" fashion. > These are my thoughts, how about some reaction (hopefully not too many > flames). > Jim Shoemaker > 5160 S. Western > Brookline, MO 65619 (near Springfield and Bass Pro Shop) The program your looking for is called " BiData " written by: Jorn Johanesson Solsortevej 27 Assens, DK 9550 Mariager DANMARK and the queen breeding data base is maintained by, as I understand it, The Danish Queen Breeders Ass. and has been for quite some time. However I think this thread is better suited to sci.agriculture.beekeeping than to Bee-L. Importing US Queens, a few years ago, brought Acarapis woodi to Finland. Something we didn't have before the US Queen Breeders sent it with their supposedly disease free queens.............. Regards, Durk Ellison OH2ZAS BeeNet: 240:2358/100 email: durk.ellison@pcb.mpoli.fi ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 Jul 1995 20:11:07 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: David E Stephenson Subject: Software for bees Does anybody know of any software available for beekeepers? I would like to find some kind of hive management program that would help keep up with the work I do on my hives. Also I would like to find some pictures of honey bees and bee related items(such as bee hives, honeycomb, etc.) for printing on cards or labels. Does anyone know of any graphics program that would have any? Thanks, David ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 Jul 1995 19:50:10 -0500 Reply-To: godave@infi.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Dave Johnson Organization: mailhost.nr.infi.net Subject: Re: queens I prefer the following queen suppliers in this order. Please understand I am a hobby beekeeper. 1. Wilbanks Apiaries, GA (Easily #1 in my experience; service and quality) 2. Walter Kelly 3. Hardeman's, GA (Great service, adequate stock) ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 Jul 1995 17:16:19 NZST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Barry Donovan Subject: Re: Wing length AHB -Reply Jerry, in your message of 2 July you mentioned that Howard Evans was the motivating force behind the development of a solar powered infra-red transmitter that can be carried by a bee. I saw it pictured several years ago, but a letter of inquiry was not answered. Do you know if the transmitter worked, and is it available? Barry J Donovan Canterbury Agriculture and Science Centre Lincoln. Private Bag 4704 Christchurch New Zealand. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 Jul 1995 22:20:16 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Kim Patten Subject: Re: Help with honey plants. >Hello out there. I have a few questions for you more experienced bee >keepers. My bees are continuing to draw comb and store honey even though the >large blackberry honey flow is now over. I can't figure out where the >current flow is comming from. Queen Annes Lace, Bachelors Button, Sweet >Pea, White Clover if there is enough of it, yes and Purple Thistle are each present in rather smallish >roadside quantity. I don't think that any of these would produce that much. Isn't there some fireweed around in the clear cuts where you have your hives? What about Lotus aka birdfeet trefoil. It should be in a lot of the low land pastures and meadows. Can anyone comment on the probability that any of these >plants are the source of the flow? I am also interested to know which you >all think are definately not the honey flow source. In addition, can anyone >suggest a good book that describes honey plants and their relative importance >in honey manufacture. I am particularly interested in a book that covers >Western plants well. (speak out western bee keepers) Thanks to everyone in >advance for your help. > >Steven A. Davis >Clackamas Co. , Oregon >pmgeophys@aol.com > > There is a book called Honey plants of Oregon written by someone in the Oregon coastal range. I can't remenber her name. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 Jul 1995 13:47:00 +0200 Reply-To: DURK ELLISON Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: DURK ELLISON Organization: Metropoli, Finland Subject: BiData > From: jshoemak@ozarks.sgcl.lib.mo.us, JIM G SHOEMAKER > Subj: BIDATA > Thanks Durk: > For your response and your suggestion about "Bidata". > As I am obviously not very adept at either beekeeping or the computer, > would it be too much to ask? How do I acquire "Bidata" and the queen > breeding database? > Any assistance will indeed be appreciated. > Jim Shoemaker Hi Jim, You can get the BiData program from the author, Jorn, at the address I sent you or from any participating BeeNet BBS. A list of the main hosts follows: Location: Sysop: Phone: Beenet_U.S.A.,Los_Banos_CA,Andy_Nachbaur,1-209-8268107 Beenet_Holland,Amsterdam_NL,Hugo_Veerkamp,31-20-6764105 Beenet_Switzerland,Bernhardzell_CH,Kurt_Baehler,41-71-391523 Beenet_UK,Catford_London_UK,Steven_Turner,44-181-695-5328 Beenet_Danmark,Mariager_DK,Jorn_Johanesson,45-98-583997 Beenet_Sweden,Olda_Vancata,46-21-70757 BeeNet_Germany,Garbsen,Helge_Roehrbein,49-5131-465796 Beenet_Finland,SF,Durk_Ellison,358-0-5062622 You will find an extensive amount of Beekeeping programs and databases. I currently have 18.1 meg of Beekeeping and Bombus related files available for download here and since Beenet hosts are updated regularly via tape, all of the above will have at least that much available. Another source, and an address no Beekeeper should be with out, is: IBRA 18 North Road Cardiff CF1 3 DY United Kingdom e-mail ibra@cardiff.ac.uk I hope this helps. Regards, Durk Ellison OH2ZAS BeeNet: 240:2358/100 email: durk.ellison@pcb.mpoli.fi ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 Jul 1995 08:48:26 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jerry J Bromenshenk Subject: Re: Wing length AHB -Reply In-Reply-To: <9507131722.4004ad7b.LN1@Lincoln.cri.nz> from "Barry Donovan" at Jul 13, 95 05:16:19 pm Hi: I apologize for the response to the list, but Barry sent me a message via the list, rather to me directly, and then did not include a signature (return e-mail line). Wishful thinking aside, my University's mail system drops the e-mail returns from the header, so you have to include one in your text. Barry asked about the bee transmitter developed at Oak Ridge by Howard Kerr ( not Evans ). I talked to Howard last week. Yes, the transmitter works, yes it is being distributed and used. No, it is not being used by biologists - too expensive. It is being used by another client for purposes totally different than its original intent. Jerry Bromenshenk The University of Montana jjbmail@selway.umt.edu ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 Jul 1995 12:08:40 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Blair Reischer Subject: Queen and package suppliers A few weeks ago when I was suffering from queenlessness in my only hive, I posted a "help" message. An off-list response suggested Hardeman's Apiaries in Geogia for a replacement. I ordered it on a Tuesday. It arrived on a friday, I placed the cage in the hive that day, by the next monday it had been accepted so I released it, and today, 24 days later, there is sealed brood. Hardeman's billed me for $5 or $6 for a marked queen. My only complaint is that the mark is not a bright fluorescent color, like the one on my first queen from Weavers, but as long as there is new brood, I can live with it. ************************************** Blair Reischer Market Technology Associates reischer@cpcug.org voice: 703/241-7857 4841 N. 30th St., Arlington, VA 22207 WWW: http://cpcug.org/user/reischer *************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 Jul 1995 15:53:03 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "James D. Satterfield" Subject: Queen sources I've dealt with Hardeman over the years, getting a few queens from them. I've been satisfied with their service, but I haven't used enough of their queens to make any judgement. Just got Italians from them. I've done some grafting lately and intend to raise my own queens. It's fun! I now have 6 nucs with queens that were produced by my grafting efforts, and they seem to be putting down good brood patterns. I've only got 14 topbar hives and 2 Langstroth types, so I don't have the volume of queen uses that the commercial beekeepers have. But I DO enjoy my experimentation, and I DO like honey! For the first time in 15 years, there didn't seem to be a poplar honey flow at Canton, GA, about 40 miles N. of Atlanta. There may be some sourwood coming in now, but it's never dependable at Canton. I am enjoying all of the BEE-L conversation. Cordially, Jim ----------------------------------------------------- | James D.Satterfield | jsatt@gsu.edu or | | P.O. Box 2243 | biojdsx@gsusgi2.gsu.edu | | Decatur, GA 30031 USA | Telephone 404 378-8917 | ----------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 Jul 1995 17:01:49 -0400 Reply-To: Mason Harris Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Mason Harris Subject: Mating queen poster Hello Bee-lievers! A friend of mine was in Brazil a few years back and took a picture of a poster of a queen bee naturally being mated. He has reexamined this picture and found small writing in the corner of the picture. My question is, does anyone out there (maybe in Germany) know of this poster and hwere to get a copy? the poster is 24"x18". It was made in Germany in 1979. In the corner it says: Mating queen: G. Koenigar Et. Al. Copyright 1979 IBRA Dr. Gudren Koenigar Institat fur Bienenkunde 6370 Oberuvset c Delta-Vertag K.G. If anyone is familiar with this poster please contact me personally. Thanks alot! Mason Harris Burlingame, CA E-Mail: SMHARRIS@ED.CO.SANMATEO.CA.US ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 Jul 1995 14:44:02 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: John Day Subject: subscribe me hi there, please subscribe me to the bee list thank you john day day@compass-da.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 Jul 1995 09:56:39 NZST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Barry Donovan Subject: Re: Wing length AHB -Reply -Reply >>> Jerry J Bromenshenk 14/7/95, 02:48am >>> Hi: I apologize for the response to the list, but Barry sent me a message via the list, rather to me directly, and then did not include a signature (return e-mail line). Wishful thinking aside, my University's mail system drops the e-mail returns from the header, so you have to include one in your text. Barry asked about the bee transmitter developed at Oak Ridge by Howard Kerr ( not Evans ). I talked to Howard last week. Yes, the transmitter works, yes it is being distributed and used. No, it is not being used by biologists - too expensive. It is being used by another client for purposes totally different than its original intent. Jerry Bromenshenk The University of Montana jjbmail@selway.umt.edu Hello Jerry, I sent my question to you via the Bee List in the belief that some other subscribers might be interested in your reply as to the fate of the bee transmitter. Do you have any information as to how much it costs? Barry J Donovan DonovanB@crop.cri.nz ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 Jul 1995 17:05:26 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Michael Stoops Subject: Re: Bees and the third estate In-Reply-To: <01HS034TY910BTRP3C@btmv56.se.bel.alcatel.be> In the case of a reporter, or anyone , being stung. It's not a case of being an idiot. It's a matter of education. In general, people DON'T know that oils, emulants, deoderants, etc. will entice bees to attack. They JUST DON'T KNOW. In cases where possibly ignorant people are coming to observe hives, it is up to the beekeeper to inform and educate beforehand so as to prevent unhappy incidents like the one in question. That was a scheduled visit. It was the beekeeper's responsibility to inform the visitors of the do's and don't's. Sorry, but as an educator, I find the fault to be the beekeeper, and really he was just not knowledgable enough to inform his visitors of what they needed to do to ensure their safety. MIKE mws@tenet.edu On Thu, 22 Jun 1995, Hugo Thone wrote: > Mike High writes : > > >It is good that the idiot got lit up.Anyone that stupid > >deserves it.The down side is all the negitive press >we'll hear about "killer" > bees > > > Why would someone wearing gel in his hair be an idiot ? > IMHO the beekeeper that keeps such aggressive bees is > much more an idiot. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Hugo Thone (SE121) email : htho@se.bel.alcatel.be > ALCATEL BELL TELEPHONE phone : (32) 3 240 94 52 > F.Wellesplein 1 fax : (32) 3 240 99 50 > B-2018 Antwerp > > > do bee do bee do .... > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 Jul 1995 17:13:53 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "La Reine de la Cite' des Phoques (Liz Day)" Subject: Re: Re[2]: queens From: John E III Taylor Maybe some experience from another area would be helpful on this topic. Over on the model-railroad newsgroup they talk quite unabashedly about mail-order vendors. [rest deleted] More experience from another area: On the exotic-pet-bird newsgroup and listserv, there are all KINDS of people, it is much less professional than this group and more chatty. There is very bad feeling about the use of the Internet among some bird hobbyists and breeders because it is easy to damage the reputation of an aviary without good cause. One customer claiming they bought a bird from place X that was sick or soemthing will make many other readers decide not to take any chances with that place and buy somewhere else. When in reality there may or may not be a problem, but the breeder is "convicted without a trial" by gossip. This is all I meant about being careful that what you say is fair. It looks as though people on this group are being much more conservative than on the bird group. ~ Liz Day LDAY@indy.net Indianapolis, Indiana, central USA ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 Jul 1995 17:37:35 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Michael Stoops Subject: Re: Why are my bees hanging o... In-Reply-To: <950702205606_24136297@aol.com> YOU could try swapping brood boxes also. When you find evidence of the queen in the second brood chamber, swap it with the first so that it is on bottom and the empty is on top. MIKE Suagr Land, TEXAS mws@tenet.edu ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 Jul 1995 18:06:51 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Michael Stoops Subject: Re: Ants In-Reply-To: <950710220454_112049231@aol.com> Sealing the inner cover and outer cover keeps out ants (usually) but it also stops all air flow upward and out in the colony. In the summer (in Indiana) I went so far as to place blocks between the inner and outer covers to increase the volume of air flow possible up through the hive and out the top. Comments? MIKE Suagr Land, TEXAS mws@tenet.edu On Mon, 10 Jul 1995, Bill Miller wrote: > Paul, > > I use plywood inner covers and they tend to get ants. To control the ants, > I seal all the joints in the inner cover with propolis (just like the bees > would if they could get to the joints), and I also turn over the inner cover > every so often so the bees can get to the ants. > > Saw a lot of other good ideas posted. > > Good luck! > > Bill Miller > Gaithersburg, MD > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 Jul 1995 02:19:00 +0200 Reply-To: DURK ELLISON Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: DURK ELLISON Organization: Metropoli, Finland Subject: Poster > Subj: Mating queen poster > Hello Bee-lievers! > Mating queen: G. Koenigar Et. Al. > " Copyright 1979 IBRA " > Dr. Gudren Koenigar Institat fur Bienenkunde > 6370 Oberuvset > c Delta-Vertag K.G. > If anyone is familiar with this poster please contact me personally. > Thanks alot! > Mason Harris > Burlingame, CA > E-Mail: > SMHARRIS@ED.CO.SANMATEO.CA.US It strikes me as being very strange that a Beekeeper would be unfamiliar with the IBRA and the work they do............ Their e-mail address is: ibra@cardiff.ac.uk Since they hold the copyright it's best you contact them. Hope this helps....... Regards, Durk Ellison OH2ZAS BeeNet: 240:2358/100 email: durk.ellison@pcb.mpoli.fi ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 Jul 1995 19:06:07 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Subject: Ventillation In-Reply-To: On Thu, 13 Jul 1995, Michael Stoops wrote: > Sealing the inner cover and outer cover keeps out ants (usually) but it > also stops all air flow upward and out in the colony. In the summer (in > Indiana) I went so far as to place blocks between the inner and outer > covers to increase the volume of air flow possible up through the hive > and out the top. Comments? MIKE Suagr Land, TEXAS mws@tenet.edu In the Great White North, I think that ventillation is _very_ overrated and a good way to reduce your crop. As a producer of comb honey, I know that bees will not store near a vent and that bees work best when a *little* on the warm and crowded side. In the southern states and tropics, I am sure that opening the top and staggering supers can be a good plan for an observant beekeeper who makes frequent visits to the hives. After all, it is probably brood nest temperature and humidity (or above) outside on many nights. Up here, it is usually much cooler and the bees have to work many nights to keep the supers at wax drawing and honey storing temperatures. If you are putting 6 or 8 standard boxes on a hive (as we do sometimes) you want the top super to be around brood nest temoerature so that they will store there. Bees are very good ventillators and can cool the hive under most conditions. They naturally seek cavities with entrances smaller than the 3/4 by 16 inch or so hole we give them. If you are prepared to carefully monitor the extra openings, they might be helpful on a few days of the year. But most of the tiome they will cost you money IMHO anyhow. Allen W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper VE6CFK Rural Route One Swalwell Alberta Canada T0M 1Y0 Email: dicka@cuug.ab.ca or allend@internode.net Futures, Art & Honey:http://www.cuug.ab.ca:8001/~dicka ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 Jul 1995 23:22:31 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Bill Miller Subject: Re: Ants Mike and my fellow beekeepers: When I seal the joints in an inner cover for ant control, I seal the joint between the plywood (or Masonite) and the inner cover's outer rim. That's where the ants live. I most definitely do not block the ventilation out of the top of the hive. In fact the rims of all my inner covers have about a 1" notch to provide increased ventilation and an upper entrance. W. G. Miller Gaithersburg, MD ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 Jul 1995 00:08:21 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "DAVID B. ELSTEROTH" Subject: listserv@uacsc2.albany.edu I would like to get on the mailing list for research and information on bees David Elsteroth ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 Jul 1995 09:20:35 +0100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: johan calis Subject: bee sting cure? A typical bee-l question reached me. What do beeliners know about tenderisers? yours, Johan.Calis@medew@ento.wau.nl ----Forwarded---- Path: news.wau.nl!news.nic.surfnet.nl!howland.reston.ans.net!dish.news .pipex.net!pipex!sunsite.doc.ic.ac.uk!ukc!mango.ukc.ac.uk!G.M.Ta rdivel From: G.M.Tardivel@ukc.ac.uk (gmt) Newsgroups: sci.med,sci.bio.entomology.misc Subject: Bee sting cure? Date: Thu, 13 Jul 95 09:16:17 GMT Organization: University of Kent at Canterbury, UK. Lines: 29 Sender: G.M.Tardivel@ukc.ac.uk Distribution: world Message-ID: <613@mango.ukc.ac.uk> NNTP-Posting-Host: mango.ukc.ac.uk Xref: news.wau.nl sci.med:47167 sci.bio.entomology.misc:489 A friend, who spends a lot of time working outdoors has given me a newspaper cutting containing a letter describing a bee-sting cure. The writer appears to live in Canada. The cutting recommends a dilution of one teaspoon of meat tenderiser in (about) 50 ml of water. When dabbed on the sting the writer claims the solution will eliminate pain and swelling, and maintain heartbeat and breathing at an ordinary level. The meat tenderiser used by the writer (Adolf's instant meat tenderizer - not a product I've seen in England) contains - salt, sugar, tricalcium phosphate, papain and hydrogenated soybean oil. The tenderizer from my frind's kitchen does not contain tricalcium phosphate. She is eager to try this wonder cure for beestings and would like to know: 1) if anyone can suggest how it might work 2) if the tricacium phosphate would be an important ingredient as a beesting cure I would like to know 3) Are Canadian beestings likely to be of a similar severity to British beestings? Any comments? Thanks Jill Tardivel ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 Jul 1995 03:16:43 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ken Adams Subject: Re: bee sting cure? In-Reply-To: Your message of "Fri, 14 Jul 1995 09:20:35 EST." Jill: I think the active ingredient in Adolf's is papain... It has the ability to break down enzyme causing suffering... There is/was an experimental treatment using pqapain on spinal disc ruptures...that it would dissolve the material that had been expelled from discs. If my memory doesn't fail me...I think papain comes from the pit of peaches or apricots or some such fruit My observation from trying meat tenderizer is the skin surrounding sting site is discolored and healing appears to be slowed down... Get the stinger out as soon as possible and grin and bear it without anything......If multiple stings....real booboo Take some benadryl....Watch for signs of anaphalatic shock.... If any signs of systemic reaction.....Use epipen and head for the emergency room......All beekeepers SHOULD have access to an epi-pen and now how to use it in case he himself suddenly needs it or one of his volunteer workers/friends, etc. begins to have a reaction....KNOW THE SIGNS! Bee Prepared! Sincerely, kla@cc.purdue.edu - Ken Adams ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 Jul 1995 04:11:35 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ken Adams Subject: Anaphylaxis and EpiPen I carry an EpiPen in my briefcase. It was manufactured for Center Laboratories. It delivers a 0.3 mg intramuscular dose of epinephrine via auto-injector... Indications and usage: Epinephrine is inidcated in the emergency treatment of allergic reactions (anaphylaxis) to insect stings or bites, foods, drugs and other allergens as well as idiopathic or exercise-induced anaphylaxis. Such reactions may occur within minutes after exposure and consist of flushing, apprehension, syncope, tachycardia, thready or unobtainable pulse with a fall in blood pressure, convulsions, vomiting, diarrhea and abdominal cramps, involuntary voiding, wheezing, dyspnea due to laryngeal spasm, pruritis, rashes, urticaria or angioedema. The EpiPen is designed as emergency supportive therapy only and is NOT a replacement or substitute for immediate medical or hospital care. There are NO absolute contraindications to the use of epinephrine in a life-threatening situation! I'd like to say that I have never needed to use one... The truth, however, is that I have never had one expire in the 15+ years that I have carried one.... Is your 101st apiary guest severly allergic and doesn't know it? I'd rather be prepared to save a friend than attend a funeral that might have been avoided or delayed.... I think that is probably enough on this subject unless one would like to state the symptoms in less medical terms I.E. common language that most might understand.. Sincerely, kla@cc.purdue.edu - Ken Adams P.S. Oh Yes...Cost? Dispensed with perscription only in USA... Complete kit is less than $40. Refill somewhat less... Larger quantities somewhat less also...Usually expiration is 18 to 24 months after purchase... Ask your MD or MD's nurse.....and Don't accept NO as an answer.....you might save a life or two! ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 Jul 1995 09:00:09 GMT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: MEMO 1995/07/14 09:07 From: John E III Taylor Subject: Re[2]: Ants > Sealing the inner cover and outer cover keeps out ants (usually) but it > also stops all air flow upward and out in the colony. In the summer (in > Indiana) I went so far as to place blocks between the inner and outer > covers to increase the volume of air flow possible up through the hive > and out the top. Comments? MIKE Suagr Land, TEXAS mws@tenet.edu Every time I've tried to increase the ventilation by propping up the outer cover (summer or winter), the bees have closed up the vent screen in the inner cover with propolis. They seem to prefer a tight hive, and it's a losing battle to argue with them about it. John E. Taylor III W3ZID | "The opinions expressed are those of the E-Mail: mah48d@rohmhaas.com | writer and not of Rohm and Haas Company." ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 Jul 1995 10:16:11 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "CAROL K. MALCOLM" Subject: Re: bee sting cure? I've never used meat tenderizer on bee stings, but this is a common field first aid technique for various bites. Papain is an enzyme, and enzymes digest molecules. The various chemicals injected by mosquitos, sting rays and bees cause an immune response (itch, pain swelling) which can be lessened if the offending molecule is digested or in some other way neutralized. Ammonia (a strong base) can have the same affect by altering the pH of the injected venom; it certainly makes mosquito bites itch less. Amazing, isn't it. Carol K. Malcolm Central Texas Beekeeper cmalcolm@utxvms.cc.utexas.edu ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 Jul 1995 10:58:27 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Michael Stoops Subject: Re: Ventillation Comments: To: Allen Dick In-Reply-To: Hi Allen, Re: Opening up top of hive to improve ventilation. Thanks for the response. I'm just a hobbiest, and was going with what I had read. Appreciate your thoughts on the subject. Didn't realize that lower temperatures would inhibit wax drawing and honey storage. Hope I didn't guide anyone incorrectly. MIKE Sugar Land, TX mws@tenet.edu ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 Jul 1995 10:33:57 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Subject: Re: Ventillation Comments: To: Michael Stoops In-Reply-To: On Fri, 14 Jul 1995, Michael Stoops wrote: > Hi Allen, > Re: Opening up top of hive to improve ventilation. > Thanks for the response. I'm just a hobbiest, and was going with what I > had read. Appreciate your thoughts on the subject. Didn't realize that >lower temperatures would inhibit wax drawing and honey storage. Hope I >didn't guide anyone incorrectly. I wouldn't lose any sleep over it. If there are ten beekeepers in a room, there are bound to be ten opinions on any subject (sometimes more). As I said - or tried to say - it might very well be a good idea in the southern states or during a long spell of hot nights -- especially if there is a dearth of nectar at the same time, or if the beekeeper is near his/her hives all the time and willing to open/close as necessary. However for a commercial beekeeper in the north, it is likely (IMHO) not wise. Nonetheless, the same idea was brought up last weekend when I visited a young friend who runs 2100 hives. He is an operator I admire very much and I was there to shamelessly steal a lot of his ideas on many beekeeping topics. He was thinking of using top ventillation for no particular reason (he hasn't had combs melt down or bees appear to suffer from overheating, other than hanging out mildly on a very few occasions - which most of us consider normal and harmless). My to him response was the same as my response to this list. I don't think he will be doing it. However, I don't think I'm qualified to comment on what to do in Texas, other than to state principles I have found useful, and to indicate possible undesirable effects to watch for if the technique is used at he wrong time or on weak hives - or in the wrong location in the world. We are a worldwide list and bees behave very differently in the tropics and subtropics from how they behave up near the Arctic circle. Some of the world's greatest beekeepers have been 'hobbyists'. Your suggestion may have been most appropriate for your situation. All the best. Allen W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper VE6CFK Rural Route One Swalwell Alberta Canada T0M 1Y0 Email: dicka@cuug.ab.ca or allend@internode.net Futures, Art & Honey:http://www.cuug.ab.ca:8001/~dicka ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 Jul 1995 13:46:59 -0400 Reply-To: Mason Harris Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Mason Harris Subject: Mating queen poster Dear Bee-lievers, Sorry, Sorry, Sorry. Yesterday I asked about where to get a Queen mating poster and I was given the wrong information which was supposed to be printed on the poster. I had written this was on the poster: Mating queen: G. Koenigar Et. Al. Copyright 1979 IBRA Dr. Gudren Koenigar Institat fur Bienenkunde 6370 Oberuvset c Delta-Vertag K.G. This is wrong. the new information which is supposed to be on the poster is: Paarung einer Bienenkonigin Fotos: Dr. Gudrun Koeniger, IOnstitut fur Bienenkunde, 6370 Oberursel copyright-Delta-Vertag KG, Liebfrauenstrabe 43 5205 St. Augustin 3 If any one knows how to get a copy of this poster, please contact me personally. Once again, sorry for the incorrect information on the poster. Mason Harris Burlingame, CA E-Mail: SMHARRIS@ED.CO.SANMATEO.CA.US ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 Jul 1995 11:35:22 PDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jane Beckman Subject: Re: bee sting cure? I have used Adolph's meat tenderizer on stings, a couple times. It does seem to take a bit of the swelling down. >maintain heartbeat and breathing at an ordinary level. Is this the psychological effect of doing something, keeping the person from panicking and hyperventilating because they're afraid of being stung? This sounds like mixed ideas---the heart rate and breathing makes me think that someone has confused sting treatment with reducing *an allergic reaction.* This is actually common---I've known people who claim they are "allergic" because the area hurts and swells---which is common, when you've been injected with a toxin! A *real* allergic reaction, resulting in anaphylaxis, is quite another thing (I've had these from a scallop allergy, and they are *scarily* dramatic!) If you even *suspect* this is a true allergic reaction, don't even bother with this stuff, but get this person to treatment! Jane B. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 Jul 1995 15:03:10 CST Reply-To: mbristow@palomo.chillan.udec.cl Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Marion L.Bristow" Subject: Re: bee sting cure? Last year we had a situation in which a tractor driver , who has a history of antiphalactante reaction to stings , acidentally dumped a hive stand with the corner of a 8 blade plow . Needless to say ,he became a BEELEIVER . He recived aprox. 350 stings in under 1 min. Fortunately , I keep gabaglobian and ATCH handy in case one of my students have problems and the hives in question was close to our wine storage area , so we had an ample amount of vinegar avalible . I was able to get a unit of gabaglob. in the guy , and we dunked him in a vat of vinegar , clothing and all . I'm not at all sure if the vinegar helped the horimone as a counter reactante to the venom , however , it was really impressive to see him swell up at an alarming rate and them go back to normal durring the vinegar bath . It would be interesting to hear from anyone with similar experiences . Marion L.Bristow - Jefe Seccion Informatica Direcion del Campus Chillan Universidad de Concepcion Casilla 537 Chillan , Chile e-mail: mbristow@palomo.chillan.udec.cl ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 Jul 1995 16:43:23 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: David E Stephenson Subject: Clipping Queens I am fairly new to beekeeping was thinking about clipping my queens in case they swarm so they will be easier to catch. I have heard both pros and cons to doing this. I was just wondering what anybodies thoughts are on this and if it really works and does it harm the hive in any way? ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 Jul 1995 17:28:16 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Frederick L. Hollen" Subject: Bee Veils I recently saw a bee veil made by a company called "Les Gestions Voilec", of Quebec, Canada. It had a couple of desirable features, a clear plexiglas panel attached with Velcro in front of the eyes and a zipper in front of the mouth so one would not have to remove the veil for a quick drink on a hot day. Is this veil still being manufactured and how could one be obtained? I will be most grateful for any information. Thanks -- ou pour les Quebecois -- Merci! ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 Jul 1995 20:49:42 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "La Reine de la Cite' des Phoques (Liz Day)" Subject: Re: bee sting cure? I think the active ingredient is the papain, which is an enzyme that digests protein. I don't know how it helps bee stings. I would be awfully careful about how you recommend this 'cure' to someone. I expect it helps for pain, but I wouldn't for a MINUTE EVER suggest it for someone who has allergic reaction to stings. These people need a different remedy, which they are supposed to carry with them just in case, which other people on this list can probably tell you about. (I'm not allergic, so ignorant.) Liz Day LDAY@indy.net Indianapolis, Indiana, central USA ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 Jul 1995 22:16:40 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Hugh Mawby Subject: Re: bee sting cure? In-Reply-To: Mostly we recommend a liquid deodorant that contains some Aluminium hydroxchloride. It seems to work if the sting itself is not moved back and forth as it is removed. There are products in the drug store(chemists) that work as well. Such names as "Sting Away " and others are used with children. Hope this helps. Hugh On Fri, 14 Jul 1995, johan calis wrote: > A typical bee-l question reached me. What do beeliners know about tenderisers? > > yours, > Johan.Calis@medew@ento.wau.nl > > ----Forwarded---- > Path: > news.wau.nl!news.nic.surfnet.nl!howland.reston.ans.net!dish.news > .pipex.net!pipex!sunsite.doc.ic.ac.uk!ukc!mango.ukc.ac.uk!G.M.Ta > rdivel > From: G.M.Tardivel@ukc.ac.uk (gmt) > Newsgroups: sci.med,sci.bio.entomology.misc > Subject: Bee sting cure? > Date: Thu, 13 Jul 95 09:16:17 GMT > Organization: University of Kent at Canterbury, UK. > Lines: 29 > Sender: G.M.Tardivel@ukc.ac.uk > Distribution: world > Message-ID: <613@mango.ukc.ac.uk> > NNTP-Posting-Host: mango.ukc.ac.uk > Xref: news.wau.nl sci.med:47167 sci.bio.entomology.misc:489 > > A friend, who spends a lot of time working outdoors > has given me a newspaper cutting containing a letter > describing a bee-sting cure. The writer appears to live in > Canada. > > The cutting recommends a dilution of one teaspoon of meat > tenderiser in (about) 50 ml of water. When dabbed on the sting > the writer claims the solution will eliminate pain and swelling, > and > maintain heartbeat and breathing at an ordinary level. > > The meat tenderiser used by the writer (Adolf's instant > meat tenderizer - not a product I've seen in England) contains - > salt, sugar, tricalcium phosphate, papain and hydrogenated > soybean oil. The tenderizer from my frind's kitchen does not > contain tricalcium phosphate. She is eager to try this wonder > cure for beestings and would like to know: > > 1) if anyone can suggest how it might work > 2) if the tricacium phosphate would be an important ingredient > as > a beesting cure > > I would like to know > 3) Are Canadian beestings likely to be of a similar severity to > British beestings? > > Any comments? > > Thanks > > Jill Tardivel > ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 15 Jul 1995 10:00:35 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Jack C. Turner" Subject: Re: bee sting cure? In-Reply-To: ; from "Hugh Mawby" at Jul 14, 95 10:16 pm If you scrape the stinger(s) out rather than grasp it, you keep a lot of toxin out. Jack Turner ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 16 Jul 1995 12:41:06 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: tom Taylor Subject: FEEDING RAW SUGAR? Does anyone have any direct experience or knowledge of the pros and cons of feeding unrefined sugar to honeybees? I am primarily interested in fall feeding and the suitability of unrefined sugar as a winter feed. -- Tom Taylor HONEYWOOD BEE SUPPLIES Nipawin, Canada ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 Jul 1995 01:16:02 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Dave D. Cawley, a De Leon Socialist" Subject: Re: bee sting cure? If I'm not mistaken, meat tenderizer is a protease that breaks down the proteinsin meat, thus "tenderizing" it. And as the venom is a protein, it should break it down as well. As for the actual recipie, I was told a bit of spit, then sprinkle liberally and rub it in... My standard disclaimer reads that my BA in Communications doesn't guarrantee any correct scientific data, just that I can convey the data...8-} ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Dave D. Cawley | The information on the Internet is only University Of Scranton | interesting to people who are interested Scranton, Pennsylvania | in it. dave@scranton.com | -Scranton Tomorrow Spokeswoman ddc1@jaguar.uofs.edu | refusing invitation to Internet Cafe's opening ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 Jul 1995 09:30:55 GMT+0100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "MORGAN, ANTHONY" Subject: Re: Wasp preying on Bee Previous messages ( source info not available, sorry): > ......What is so interesting about the thorax of an insect?....... > bernd rohwedder >Wasps are after protein. The thorax is full of flight muscles. This >protein is used to feed the wasp larvae. >David De Jong I quote a recent article by Hugo Hansen in the Norwegian beekeeping journal : "...Wasps *love* nectar. So they capture a (returning) bee in the air, bite through where it is thinnest and simply take the thorax back home as a bag of honey. I hate wasps!...." Protein or nectar? I have never seen it happen myself and this year we seem to have a dearth of wasps (thank goodness) so not much chance of observing attacks. What is the answer? Cheers, Tony Morgan --------------------------------------------------------------- Anthony N. Morgan (Tony) Fax: +47 73 89 62 86 "Stavshagen" E-mail: anthony@iet.hist.no Midtsandan Sor-Trondelag College 7563 MALVIK Elec. Eng. Department Norway 7005 TRONDHEIM, Norway ---------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 Jul 1995 08:17:44 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Aaron Morris Subject: Meat tenderizer for bee stings Comments: To: bee-l@ALBANY.BITNET I believe that was one of Jeffery Dahlmer's favorite bee sting treatments! ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 Jul 1995 11:18:09 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Doug Yanega Subject: Re: Wasp preying on Bee >I quote a recent article by Hugo Hansen in the Norwegian beekeeping journal >: >"...Wasps *love* nectar. So they capture a (returning) bee in the air, bite >through where it is thinnest and simply take the thorax back home as >a bag of honey. I hate wasps!...." > >Protein or nectar? I have never seen it happen myself and this year we >seem to have a dearth of wasps (thank goodness) so not much chance of >observing attacks. What is the answer? > >Cheers, >Tony Morgan Perhaps something was lost in the translation, since the honey stomach (the "bag of honey") is located in the abdomen, at least as far as I know... Doug Yanega Illinois Natural History Survey, 607 E. Peabody Dr. Champaign, IL 61820 USA phone (217) 244-6817, fax (217) 333-4949 "There are some enterprises in which a careful disorderliness is the true method" - Herman Melville, Moby Dick, Chap. 82 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 Jul 1995 11:52:10 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Marion D. Ellis" Subject: Re: FEEDING RAW SUGAR? >From IBRA reprint "M92" Feeding Sugar to Bees: Unrefined beet sugar, brown sugar, molasses, etc., will cause the bee rectum to fill with residue, and so is not suitable for wintering. For further details refer to IBRA library references 99/60 and 951L/71. I have observed starving colonies that were fed unrefined sugar in October in the mid-west that were severely affected by dysentery by December. They were hauled to Texas by their owner in December who later described the situation to me as a total loss. >Does anyone have any direct experience or knowledge of the pros and cons of >feeding unrefined sugar to honeybees? > >I am primarily interested in fall feeding and the suitability of unrefined >sugar as a winter feed. > >-- >Tom Taylor >HONEYWOOD BEE SUPPLIES >Nipawin, Canada > > Marion Ellis, mellis@unlinfo.unl.edu ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 Jul 1995 13:14:05 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: JOHN IANNUZZI Subject: Re: Wasp preying on Bee > >I quote a recent article by Hugo Hansen in the Norwegian beekeeping journal > >: > >"...Wasps *love* nectar. So they capture a (returning) bee in the air, bite > >through where it is thinnest and simply take the thorax back home as > >a bag of honey. I hate wasps!...." > > > >Protein or nectar? I have never seen it happen myself and this year we > >seem to have a dearth of wasps (thank goodness) so not much chance of > >observing attacks. What is the answer? > > > >Cheers, > >Tony Morgan > > Perhaps something was lost in the translation, since the honey stomach (the > "bag of honey") is located in the abdomen, at least as far as I know... > > Doug Yanega Illinois Natural History Survey, 607 E. Peabody Dr. > Champaign, IL 61820 USA phone (217) 244-6817, fax (217) 333-4949 > "There are some enterprises in which a careful disorderliness > is the true method" - Herman Melville, Moby Dick, Chap. 82 > Along these lines but not directly apropos to the query, when I was at Apimondia Nagoya 1985?, I visited an apiary where the wasp problem--they were Mandarins, as big as elephants--was so bad that each hive had a wasp trap mounted at the entrance! C'est la vie. **************************************************** *john iannuzzi phd ji0079@epfl2.epflbalto.org* *ellicott city md usa founded 1772 * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 Jul 1995 11:26:55 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Subject: Re: FEEDING RAW SUGAR? In-Reply-To: <9507171652.AA24750@unlinfo2.unl.edu> On Mon, 17 Jul 1995, Marion D. Ellis wrote: > I have observed starving colonies that were fed unrefined sugar in October > in the mid-west that were severely affected by dysentery by December. They > were hauled to Texas by their owner in December who later described the > situation to me as a total loss. I am wondering exactly what type of 'unrefined sugar' this might be. There are many many types of sugar and stages of refining. Without saying that the feed was not the cause (or a contributing cause). I must add that bees that are starving in the fall are often a total loss no matter what you do, especially if they haver reached the stage of canabalising the brood and exhausting the pollen reserves that are uncovered. Anecdotal evidence seems to indicate that the pure the sugar is, the less problems might develop, however there are various degrees of unrefinement and I am sure there must be some levels of unrefinement which may be acceptable for bees to winter. The sugar which is quoted on the 'world sugar' contracts is at a fairly high level of refinement, I believe, and is still considered unrefined. Nonetheless it is used as table sugar in Mexico -- at least I assume it is the same sugar. It is a little off white compared to US and Canadian sugar. I am quite interested in this because refined sugar goes for a lot more money than some of the unrefined stages. I don't know what beets go for, but I tried slicing a sugar beet at Taber one time when I was driving by (They are piled in huge stacks like gravel beside the road in the fall.) Uggghh! Not very sweet at all. I's sure like to hear more about this, but it would help if we could define exactly the product we are discussing each time. I don't know if this is possible, but it would help. Simple table sugar in on area of a country may be cane sugar, another area may be using beet sugar, and there are overlaps. Then again too, refining is an art in itself and I suspect some processes are proprietary. I wonder about minority impurities. Jerry B's comments from this list some time back have me requesting the water analysis from the town that supplies the water for mixing the syrup that I buy for my bees! FWIW Allen W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper VE6CFK Rural Route One Swalwell Alberta Canada T0M 1Y0 Email: dicka@cuug.ab.ca or allend@internode.net Futures, Art & Honey:http://www.cuug.ab.ca:8001/~dicka ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 Jul 1995 13:56:36 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: JOHN IANNUZZI Subject: Re: Wasp preying on Bee > >I quote a recent article by Hugo Hansen in the Norwegian beekeeping journal > >: > >"...Wasps *love* nectar. So they capture a (returning) bee in the air, bite > >through where it is thinnest and simply take the thorax back home as > >a bag of honey. I hate wasps!...." > > > >Protein or nectar? I have never seen it happen myself and this year we > >seem to have a dearth of wasps (thank goodness) so not much chance of > >observing attacks. What is the answer? > > > >Cheers, > >Tony Morgan > > Perhaps something was lost in the translation, since the honey stomach (the > "bag of honey") is located in the abdomen, at least as far as I know... > > Doug Yanega Illinois Natural History Survey, 607 E. Peabody Dr. > Champaign, IL 61820 USA phone (217) 244-6817, fax (217) 333-4949 > "There are some enterprises in which a careful disorderliness > is the true method" - Herman Melville, Moby Dick, Chap. 82 > Along these lines butnot directly apropos to the query, when I was at Apimondia Nagoya 1985?, I visited an apiary --in a net-covered orchard where each piece of fruit was enclosed in a paper bag--where the wasp problem--the Mandarins where as big as elephants--was so bad that each hive had a wasp trap mounted at the entrance! C'est la vie. Jack the B-man ellicottcity md usa 1359 17jul95 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 Jul 1995 17:06:49 GMT Reply-To: Gordon@apis.demon.co.uk Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Gordon Scott Subject: Re: Help with honey plants. Steven Davis writes: > Hello out there. I have a few questions for you more experienced bee > keepers. My bees are continuing to draw comb and store honey even though the > large blackberry honey flow is now over. I can't figure out where the > current flow is comming from...... Just a thought, could it be honeydew from aphids? Regards, -- Gordon Scott Gordon@apis.demon.co.uk 100332,3310 on CompuServe Newsletter Beekeeper@apis.demon.co.uk ditto Beekeeper, Kendo Sandan, sometime sailor. Basingstoke, Hampshire, RG22 5HP, UK ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 Jul 1995 18:00:00 GMT Reply-To: Gordon@apis.demon.co.uk Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Gordon Scott Subject: Re: Queen and package suppliers Blair Reischer wrote: > billed me for $5 or $6 for a marked queen..... Hm, what is the typical price for a queen of reasonable quality in the US? In my modest experience in the UK, getting a decent queen for less that about 10 UKP (about $15) can be quite a challenge. 12 to 15 UKP is the norm. Regards, -- Gordon Scott Gordon@apis.demon.co.uk 100332,3310 on CompuServe Newsletter Beekeeper@apis.demon.co.uk ditto Beekeeper, Kendo Sandan, sometime sailor. Basingstoke, Hampshire, RG22 5HP, UK ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 Jul 1995 14:33:31 +0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Daniel Tremblay Subject: use of PVC pipe to extract honey I would like to know if plastic (PVC or ABS) black pipe ( the same type that the one that are used for sewage or for water) is frequently used as material to extract honey? And if the answer is yes, so what are the risks if there is any for the innocuousness of the honey? For example, do the glue used to link the parts of the pipes presents some risks. Thank you France Desjardins ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 Jul 1995 18:14:40 GMT Reply-To: Gordon@apis.demon.co.uk Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Gordon Scott Subject: Re: bee sting cure? > If my memory doesn't fail me...I think papain comes from the > pit of peaches or apricots or some such fruit Papaya, I'm pretty sure. Both it and pineapple contain meat tenderising enzymes and may be worth trying. And you can eat the rest! Regards, -- Gordon Scott Gordon@apis.demon.co.uk 100332,3310 on CompuServe Newsletter Beekeeper@apis.demon.co.uk ditto Beekeeper, Kendo Sandan, sometime sailor. Basingstoke, Hampshire, RG22 5HP, UK ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 Jul 1995 12:12:41 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: John Day Subject: Re: use of PVC pipe to extract honey hi france, i would like the answer to pvc glue contamination also. i'm considering using it to pipe the honey from my extractor to a bucket, and have thought about it and how to properly glue the pieces. i'm not too concerned tho - it's fit for humans to drink from, so how bad can it be for the honey? let me know if you get any really negative comments. thanks, john ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 Jul 1995 12:16:10 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Casey Burns Subject: 1 Deep Colonies In-Reply-To: I started a couple of colonies from late swarms that have nicely filled up a single deep brood chamber. However, the honey flow is over, and I don't have any extra drawn comb to give them for a second deep, as is the custom around here. All 3 colonies are strong with good queens - how should I go about managing them? Should I put a second super on and feed them? Or will it only mean feeding them over the winter? Any suggestions? Thanks, Caseyu Burns ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 Jul 1995 13:38:46 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Subject: Re: 1 Deep Colonies In-Reply-To: On Mon, 17 Jul 1995, Casey Burns wrote: Unfortunately, replies (if any) giving advice to to any poster who does not specify his/her location are bound to be rather general and quite useless. If you let us know where you are in the world, we might be able to help, and we will likely be glad to try :) This is an international list. Allen > I started a couple of colonies from late swarms that have nicely filled > up a single deep brood chamber. However, the honey flow is over, and I > don't have any extra drawn comb to give them for a second deep, as is the > custom around here. All 3 colonies are strong with good queens - how > should I go about managing them? Should I put a second super on and feed > them? Or will it only mean feeding them over the winter? Any suggestions? W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper VE6CFK Rural Route One Swalwell Alberta Canada T0M 1Y0 Email: dicka@cuug.ab.ca or allend@internode.net Futures, Art & Honey:http://www.cuug.ab.ca:8001/~dicka ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 Jul 1995 15:37:23 CST Reply-To: mbristow@palomo.chillan.udec.cl Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Marion L.Bristow" Subject: Re: use of PVC pipe to extract honey I wouldn't think that it would be a problem as related to human health . Most of the new built homes use PVC for potable water and I use it in my honey/wax refinery in a solar collector for hot water . If the honey set long enough in the piping it might develope a tast diferental , but it would have to be setting a long while . The reason I say a long while is that I use PVC type barrels as a temporary storage for honey taken off my extractor and the same type of barrels to make mead . The only problem that I've had is with the mead fermentation barrels . The PVC tends to get impregneated with the odor and taste , so I don't use the same barrels for table honey or the honey I feed back to my girl's , as that it has a bit of a yeast taste . Chao , Marion L.Bristow - Jefe Seccion Informatica Direcion del Campus Chillan Universidad de Concepcion Casilla 537 Chillan , Chile e-mail: mbristow@palomo.chillan.udec.cl ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 Jul 1995 15:46:32 CST Reply-To: mbristow@palomo.chillan.udec.cl Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Marion L.Bristow" Subject: Re: use of PVC pipe to extract honey When you get ready to work with the PVC be sure to sand the areas of the plastic that will be glued ( inside the couplings and elbows especially ), clean them off , apply your glue , put them together quick , and let the joint set imoble for about 10 min. If you get that glue on you ( it smells like hell ) use fingernail polish remover to take it off ( real cheap hairspray for you clothes ) . Flush the new piping real well out with water after it's all dry .Once the glue if dry you souldn't be able to taste or smell it . Chao , Marion L.Bristow - Jefe Seccion Informatica Direcion del Campus Chillan Universidad de Concepcion Casilla 537 Chillan , Chile e-mail: mbristow@palomo.chillan.udec.cl ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 Jul 1995 14:53:44 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Marion D. Ellis" Subject: unrefined sugar Reply to Tom Taylor's question about feeding unrefined sugar to bees: >From IBRA reprint "M92" Feeding Sugar to Bees: Unrefined beet sugar, brown sugar, molasses, etc., will cause the bee rectum to fill with residue, and so is not suitable for wintering. For further details refer to IBRA library references 99/60 and 951L/71. I have observed starving colonies that were fed unrefined sugar in October in the mid-west that were severely affected by dysentery by December. They were hauled to Texas by their owner in December who later described the situation to me as a total loss. >Does anyone have any direct experience or knowledge of the pros and cons of >feeding unrefined sugar to honeybees? > >I am primarily interested in fall feeding and the suitability of unrefined >sugar as a winter feed. > >-- >Tom Taylor >HONEYWOOD BEE SUPPLIES >Nipawin, Canada Marion Ellis, mellis@unlinfo.unl.edu ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 Jul 1995 15:15:58 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Marion D. Ellis" Subject: Re: FEEDING RAW SUGAR? >On Mon, 17 Jul 1995, Marion D. Ellis wrote: > >> I have observed starving colonies that were fed unrefined sugar in October >> in the mid-west that were severely affected by dysentery by December. They >> were hauled to Texas by their owner in December who later described the >> situation to me as a total loss. )On 17 July 95, Allen Dick asked: >I am wondering exactly what type of 'unrefined sugar' this might be. > >There are many many types of sugar and stages of refining. > >Without saying that the feed was not the cause (or a contributing cause). >I must add that bees that are starving in the fall are often a total loss >no matter what you do, especially if they haver reached the stage of >canabalising the brood and exhausting the pollen reserves that are >uncovered. Response to Allen's question: The unrefined sugar was crude cane sugar. I have no knowledge as to the level of impurities present. I wonder if mills that sell unrefined sugar can or will provide buyers with a detailed analysis of what they are getting in a given purchase or if their processing is precise enough to deliver a uniform product. The IBRA reprints referenced in my original reply may be helpful if you wish to persue the subject. Marion Ellis, mellis@unlinfo.unl.edu ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 Jul 1995 13:35:22 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Casey Burns Subject: Re: 1 Deep Colonies In-Reply-To: Western Washington, sorry... On Mon, 17 Jul 1995, Allen Dick wrote: > On Mon, 17 Jul 1995, Casey Burns wrote: > > Unfortunately, replies (if any) giving advice to to any poster who does > not specify his/her location are bound to be rather general and quite > useless. > > If you let us know where you are in the world, we might be able to help, > and we will likely be glad to try :) > > This is an international list. > > Allen > > > I started a couple of colonies from late swarms that have nicely filled > > up a single deep brood chamber. However, the honey flow is over, and I > > don't have any extra drawn comb to give them for a second deep, as is the > > custom around here. All 3 colonies are strong with good queens - how > > should I go about managing them? Should I put a second super on and feed > > them? Or will it only mean feeding them over the winter? Any suggestions? > > W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper VE6CFK > Rural Route One Swalwell Alberta Canada T0M 1Y0 > Email: dicka@cuug.ab.ca or allend@internode.net > Futures, Art & Honey:http://www.cuug.ab.ca:8001/~dicka > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 Jul 1995 17:13:26 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Kelley Rosenlund Subject: Re: unrefined sugar What is the difference between using granulated sugar vs a water sugar solution? Several beekeeping books say use a 2:1 or 1:1 (sugar:water) mix as a supplement. I have used it several times with no ill effects. God Bless, Kelley Rosenlund (rosenlk@freenet.ufl.edu) Gainesville, Florida, U.S.A. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 Jul 1995 13:20:00 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Kerry Clark 784-2225 fax (604) 784 2299" Subject: Re: use of PVC pipe to extract honey Although beekeepers are good at finding less expensive alternative materials to use in their business, including the honey production process, some could contaminate honey. Even the use of a material for some other food use, does not guarantee it is suitable for honey. Some plastics lose their plasticiser chemicals to the honey, becoming discolored and brittle. Regulations aside, I'm sure it's not something you want to put in honey. France, I have no information that the materials you are considering are inappropriate, but you should be able to get an "approved for honey" assurance. Agriculture and Agrifoods Canada (Food Production and Inspection Branch) has staff who are responsible for the approval of registered honey houses and honey packing facilities. The answer you would get from your area inspector has some advantages over the information you may get from elsewhere. Kerry Clark, Apiculture Specialist B.C. Ministry of Agriculture 1201 103 Ave Dawson Creek B.C. V1G 4J2 CANADA Tel (604) 784-2225 fax (604) 784-2299 INTERNET KCLARK@GALAXY.GOV.BC.CA ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Jul 1995 10:25:17 +1000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Codger Subject: Re: FEEDING RAW SUGAR? It has been noted that any other than whitetable sugar is no good as bee food.IN some cases it destroys the colony. vince b constable >On Mon, 17 Jul 1995, Marion D. Ellis wrote: > >> I have observed starving colonies that were fed unrefined sugar in October >> in the mid-west that were severely affected by dysentery by December. They >> were hauled to Texas by their owner in December who later described the >> situation to me as a total loss. > >I am wondering exactly what type of 'unrefined sugar' this might be. > >There are many many types of sugar and stages of refining. > >Without saying that the feed was not the cause (or a contributing cause). >I must add that bees that are starving in the fall are often a total loss >no matter what you do, especially if they haver reached the stage of >canabalising the brood and exhausting the pollen reserves that are >uncovered. > >Anecdotal evidence seems to indicate that the pure the sugar is, the less >problems might develop, however there are various degrees of unrefinement >and I am sure there must be some levels of unrefinement which may be >acceptable for bees to winter. > >The sugar which is quoted on the 'world sugar' contracts is at a fairly >high level of refinement, I believe, and is still considered unrefined. >Nonetheless it is used as table sugar in Mexico -- at least I assume it >is the same sugar. It is a little off white compared to US and Canadian >sugar. > >I am quite interested in this because refined sugar goes for a lot more >money than some of the unrefined stages. > >I don't know what beets go for, but I tried slicing a sugar beet at Taber >one time when I was driving by (They are piled in huge stacks like gravel >beside the road in the fall.) Uggghh! > >Not very sweet at all. > >I's sure like to hear more about this, but it would help if we could >define exactly the product we are discussing each time. I don't know if >this is possible, but it would help. > >Simple table sugar in on area of a country may be cane sugar, another >area may be using beet sugar, and there are overlaps. > >Then again too, refining is an art in itself and I suspect some processes >are proprietary. > >I wonder about minority impurities. Jerry B's comments from this list >some time back have me requesting the water analysis from the town that >supplies the water for mixing the syrup that I buy for my bees! > >FWIW > >Allen > >W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper VE6CFK >Rural Route One Swalwell Alberta Canada T0M 1Y0 >Email: dicka@cuug.ab.ca or allend@internode.net >Futures, Art & Honey:http://www.cuug.ab.ca:8001/~dicka > > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Jul 1995 09:33:00 -0300 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: David De Jong Subject: Re: Wasp preying on Bee In-Reply-To: On Mon, 17 Jul 1995, MORGAN, ANTHONY wrote: > Previous messages ( source info not available, sorry): > > > ......What is so interesting about the thorax of an insect?....... > > bernd rohwedder > > >Wasps are after protein. The thorax is full of flight muscles. This > >protein is used to feed the wasp larvae. > > >David De Jong > > I quote a recent article by Hugo Hansen in the Norwegian beekeeping journal > : > "...Wasps *love* nectar. So they capture a (returning) bee in the air, bite > through where it is thinnest and simply take the thorax back home as > a bag of honey. I hate wasps!...." > > Protein or nectar? I have never seen it happen myself and this year we > seem to have a dearth of wasps (thank goodness) so not much chance of > observing attacks. What is the answer? > > Cheers, > Tony Morgan > --------------------------------------------------------------- > Anthony N. Morgan (Tony) Fax: +47 73 89 62 86 > "Stavshagen" E-mail: anthony@iet.hist.no > Midtsandan Sor-Trondelag College > 7563 MALVIK Elec. Eng. Department > Norway 7005 TRONDHEIM, Norway > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > The nectar in the forager is in the abdomen. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Jul 1995 07:36:14 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Eric Abell Subject: Re: use of PVC pipe to extract honey In-Reply-To: <199507171912.MAA03371@luminary.sanjose.compass-da.com> You might try simply using a screw to hold things together and avoid the glue altogether. This has the added advantage of being easily dissasembled for cleaning, storage, etc. Eric Abell email: eabell@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca Gibbons, AB, T0A 1N0 Canada (403) 998 3143 On Mon, 17 Jul 1995, John Day wrote: > hi france, > > i would like the answer to pvc glue contamination also. i'm considering using > it to pipe the honey from my extractor to a bucket, and have thought about it > and how to properly glue the pieces. i'm not too concerned tho - it's fit for > humans to drink from, so how bad can it be for the honey? > > let me know if you get any really negative comments. > > thanks, > john > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Jul 1995 09:43:53 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Frederick L. Hollen" Subject: Re: Bees in cavity wall - summary In-Reply-To: ; from "Rees, Simon" at Jun 27, 95 6:41 pm Greetings to all I have been attempting a similar project over the last several months. The bees are in a stone hous without a cavity wall; they nust be in the joist area between the 1st & 2d floors. I closed off the entrance with a Porter bee escape and , because of limited space next to the entrance area, have been trapping the bees into nuc boxes, which, when full, I remove and replace with another one. Early in the spring, I added queens to these nuc boxes and started new colonies at home. Lately I've been uniting the bees (newspaper method) with the aforementioned colonies. Seemed to me like a good idea. However, the bees are amazingly talented at finding ways to get back into the house and I am constantly closing up new entrances they have found -- some at a good distance from the original one. However, I have gotten quite a few bees. I am fortunate that the homeowner is in no real hurry -- The bees have been there for a few years and though he wants them removed he is not "pushy" about it. I'm not charging him for the work as I have a lot of free time in the summer and I consider the bees and the experience to be enough compensation. An exterminator would cost him several hundred dollars and he would still have the bees' stores in the house. If this works, they should consume all their stores before the last ones expire, right? Then, of course, it will be necessary to seal up all the openings, but by then we should know where they all are. No guarantees were given and the owner understands that if the procedure does not work he will still be where he is now, no worse off. Any input / suggestions will be welcome. Our location is in Virginia Fred L. Hollen (fhollen@pen.k12.va.us.) According to Rees, Simon: > > Hi all, > > A couple of weeks ago I asked you all for your views on how - & if - one can > remove bees from a cavity wall. Here's a synopsis of the replies: > > There seem to be two possible ways of removing the bees - by removing the > bricks and cutting the comb out (the messiest job in the World?), or by > setting up a small colony nearby and using a one - way (e.g. Porter) bee > escape to allow them out. The principle is that the bees come out, can't get > back in, and join the other colony. There was some scepticism about this > working, however - not least because bees tend to find another way in > somewhere else in the building. The only other suggestions were to leave > them be, or to destroy them (for which I was recommended whitefly powder). > > Many thanks are due to all who contributed (most of whom, as it happens, were > from the UK) - I'll let you know what happens when (if!) we muster up the > courage to do something! > > Simon Rees > (almost a Twickenham beekeeper) > simon.rees@mcl.com.uk > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Jul 1995 07:55:55 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Subject: Re: Bees in cavity wall - summary In-Reply-To: <199507181343.JAA62116@pen2.pen.k12.va.us> On Tue, 18 Jul 1995, Frederick L. Hollen wrote: > Greetings to all > > I have been attempting a similar project over the last several > months. The bees are in a stone hous without a cavity wall; > they nust be in the joist area between the 1st & 2d floors. > > I closed off the entrance with a Porter bee escape and , Very interesting, and a nice description. I hadn't though of using nucs because I don't like to have to go back too many times. I always hoisted full sized colonies up into place. This (trapping) practice has the added benefit of ensuring all the cracks and holes in the house are found and caulked :) It's (almost) always worked for me. I make my own cone escape from window screen. The end hole should be only big enough for a bee to squeeze out of (5/16) inch diameter max. and the cone should be about 8 inches tall and the base diameter about the same. Staples work on wood or duct tape on other materials. Allen W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper VE6CFK Rural Route One Swalwell Alberta Canada T0M 1Y0 Email: dicka@cuug.ab.ca or allend@internode.net Futures, Art & Honey:http://www.cuug.ab.ca:8001/~dicka ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Jul 1995 12:27:13 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Logan Vanleigh Subject: Re: Bees in cavity wall - summary If this works, >they should consume all their stores before the last ones >expire, right? > One book I read explained that not all stores are consumed, but once the original colony is exhausted you can bring in a non-swarmy colony , open up the escape and let that colony rob out the reamining stores. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Jul 1995 13:25:04 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Derk Phelps Subject: Payne Hive Loaders Hello, I am looking for information on Payne Hive loaders. I am looking for names and address of manufacturers of Hydraulic loaders. I would also be interested in talking to anyone that has one or has had one in thee past. Thanks Derk Phelps dpbees@aol.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Jul 1995 10:37:22 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Casey Burns Subject: Allergy! Alas.... In-Reply-To: Interesting time in the bee yard yesterday and elsewhere.... I got 5 stings on my arm in the afternoon - no big deal, just a slightly defensive hive (odors of fiberglass resin from a neighbor drifting by). Then last night I got stung by something in the tall grass that actually drew blood - probably a hornet or wasp. Within a few minutes my palms and feet were itchy. That was wierd. About 10 minutes later, my lips, teeth, and skin on my throat started going numb. I took the safe route, realising that this experience was a little beyond my ability and knowledge to deal with it and called 911, went to the local hospital for observation - breathing and vitals ok. Slept like a log due to 50mg Beadryl and am taking Prednizone. But I am wondering if this is it for me for beekeeping to whether I am allergic to wasps and not bees. Irregardless, I now am carrying an epipen with me outside! Do any others have allergy tales? What did you do about the allergy - were you able to get rid of it? Still recovering... Casey Burns, Kingston WA ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Jul 1995 11:03:57 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: John Day Subject: Re: Allergy! Alas.... hi casey, possibly a reaction to a combination of both bee and wasp stings? ask the doc. have you been stung by wasps in the past with no reactions? john ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Jul 1995 10:58:54 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Casey Burns Subject: Re: Allergy! Alas.... In-Reply-To: <199507181803.LAA14754@luminary.sanjose.compass-da.com> Dear John, That though occurred to me - since I did get stung earlier by honey bees and had a typical minor reaction - hardly worse than a mosquito bite. The doctor couldn't speculate. According to Hive and the Honeybees, cross reactions (sensitivity to one leading to sensitivity to the other) do occur in a significant percentage of victims. As far as wasp stings, this was the first time I have gotten stung by a wasp since I took up beekeeping. Casey On Tue, 18 Jul 1995, John Day wrote: > hi casey, > > possibly a reaction to a combination of both bee and wasp stings? ask the doc. > have you been stung by wasps in the past with no reactions? > > john > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Jul 1995 13:37:57 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Robert Henderson Subject: Re: Allergy! Alas.... >casey- I have had similar experiences. I have no problems with my >honeybees stinging me, but, if I am stung by yellowjackets, I have serious >reactions- severe dizziness and swelling. Can anyone explain this? ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Jul 1995 15:20:04 CST Reply-To: mbristow@palomo.chillan.udec.cl Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Marion L.Bristow" Subject: Re: Allergy! Alas.... It may have been a snake bite ! Chao , Marion L.Bristow - Jefe Seccion Informatica Direcion del Campus Chillan Universidad de Concepcion Casilla 537 Chillan , Chile e-mail: mbristow@palomo.chillan.udec.cl ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Jul 1995 22:50:16 +0100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Hans-Ulrich THOMAS Subject: Re: Allergy! Alas.... >Do any others have allergy tales? What did you do about the allergy >- were you able to get rid of it? > >Still recovering... >Casey Burns, Kingston WA Casey, I don't have a tale just facts what happened in my case. I developed an allergy to bee stings after picking up this hobby 12 years ago. Tests at the local hospital proved this and also showed that I am not allergic to wasp stings. Subsequent desensibilisation treatment was successful and by now I only get a mild swelling or no reaction at all. According to the medical doctor this kind of treatment is effective for about 80% of the people. For the other 20% the situation either does not improve or worsens it. A couple of years ago I got stung by three hornets (Vespa crabro) in my leg when I tried to relocate a nest in a bird cage. It was very painful but I experienced no other reaction. I am enjoying beekeeping, but with a veil, just in case! Hans (hthomas@solid.phys.ethz.ch) ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Jul 1995 19:11:10 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Harmony Farm Subject: Re: Allergy! Alas.... In-Reply-To: I am a beekeeper of 16 years and too are not sensitive to honey bee stings, but yellow jackets are another story. I swell for three or four days and itch alot. So far breathing and numbness have not accurred. Deb Kalicin Lisbon, NY On Tue, 18 Jul 1995, Robert Henderson wrote: > >casey- I have had similar experiences. I have no problems with my > >honeybees stinging me, but, if I am stung by yellowjackets, I have serious > >reactions- severe dizziness and swelling. Can anyone explain this? > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Jul 1995 15:58:00 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Kerry Clark 784-2225 fax (604) 784 2299" Subject: Mite strategy I'd like us to consider a concise, broadly applicable strategy to live with parasitic mites of honey bees. There is a lot of information available, and we're a lot better equipped now than a few years ago, but still there appears to be a lack of consensus about basic things such as treatment or damage thresholds, or spring cf. fall treatment. Although there are glimmers of hope for a symbiotic relationship between bees and varroa, they seem uncomfortably far in the future, considering the likely loss of relatively good chemical controls, and the risk of honey contamination from other, relatively bad chemical controls. It would be good to have a model for sustainable management (one with a low likelihood of failing within a few years). Below is an attempt that I offer for discussion. It's based on some experimental results, some basic principles of pest management, and some choices (for lack of anything better). It has not been demonstrated to work. The control products are those available for commercial operations in Canada and in some European countries (Bayvarol can be substituted for Apistan as far as the strategy goes, I think). I've omitted drone brood removal, heat treatment and lactic acid as too labour intensive, dusts or fragrant oils as unsubstantiated ? and other chemicals such as amitraz as undesirable for various reasons, although I'd like to hear from anyone who feels another product is justifiable for general use. An equivalent "high labour" version of a strategy would be easier, since more options are available. I'd appreciate hearing from those of you with varroa experience, with comments on how you think specific parts of the strategy compare to what is the current practice in your area (including the probability of development of resistant varroa). Options, new ideas, criticism welcome. Kerry Clark, Apiculture Specialist B.C. Ministry of Agriculture 1201 103 Ave Dawson Creek B.C. V1G 4J2 CANADA Tel (604) 784-2225 fax (604) 784-2299 INTERNET KCLARK@GALAXY.GOV.BC.CA FOR DISCUSSION Strategy for sustainable, integrated management of bee mites Assumptions: varroa and tracheal mites are established in an area. tolerable tracheal mite infestation: 15 % of bees in an apiary sample in fall. tolerable varroa infestation: 100/colony spring (=15/d1Api) (15 varroa on a sticky board on day 1 of Apistan exposure) 1000/colony fall (= 150/d1Api) varroa will increase as modeled in Fries '94. colonies must be treated to survive. adequate treatment: 90 % reduction, (once per year when reinfestation is minor, twice per year when reinfestation is major) commercial beekeeping (cost, labour minimized) General Advice: non-chemical strategies against tracheal mites: consider mite resistant stock, installation of vegetable oil patties (March through June), increased requeening and hive splitting with removal of splits after a few days flight. Check varroa drop (5 to 10 hives/ apiary) on first day of each treatment (as below). When tolerable mite populations are exceeded, continue treatments. Coordinate regionally: mite checks, treatment material and timing. Monitor efficacy. Short-treatment option (reduces treatment to fit lower varroa levels): Based on mite fall on first day of treatment, reduce treatment A or B: Less than 100 v mites: Apistan, leave only 2 weeks. Formic, apply 120 ml/ 3 doses. 100 to 500 v: Apistan, leave 4 weeks. Formic, apply 160 ml/ 4 doses. Over 500 v mites: Apistan, leave 6 weeks. Formic, apply 200 ml/ 5 doses. 1. Short winter region: (bees forage early March through October) For 1 treatment/year, alternate years, one of A, one of B. For 2 treatments/year, use one A and one B per year. Spring A: 2 Apistan hive strips, installed Feb. 1 through March 10, Fall A: 2 Apistan hive strips, installed Sept 1 through Oct 10 Spring B: 200 ml formic acid, dispensed continuously or in 5 doses, over 3 weeks in March, Fall B: 200 ml formic acid, dispensed continuously or in 5 doses, over 3 weeks in September, 2. Long winter region: (bees forage mid April through August) For 1 treatment/year, alternate years, one of A, one of B. For 2 treatments/year, use one A and one B per year. Spring A: 2 Apistan hive strips, installed April 1 through May 10, Fall A: 2 Apistan hive strips, installed Sept 1 through Oct 10 Spring B: 200 ml formic acid, dispensed continuously or in 5 doses, over 3 weeks in May, Fall B: 200 ml formic acid, dispensed continuously or in 5 doses, over 3 weeks in September. Thanks KC ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Jul 1995 17:57:21 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Subject: Re: Mite strategy In-Reply-To: <01HT0SF8KP2EQPFQJI@gems.gov.bc.ca> On Tue, 18 Jul 1995, Kerry Clark 784-2225 fax (604) 784 2299 wrote: > General Advice: non-chemical strategies against tracheal mites: consider > mite resistant stock, installation of vegetable oil patties (March > through June), increased requeening and hive splitting with removal of > splits after a few days flight. Good post Kerry. Hope to hear lots of discussion. Please clarify (for me) 'removal of splits after a few days flight'. TIA Allen W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper VE6CFK Rural Route One Swalwell Alberta Canada T0M 1Y0 Email: dicka@cuug.ab.ca or allend@internode.net Futures, Art & Honey:http://www.cuug.ab.ca:8001/~dicka ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Jul 1995 18:19:43 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Subject: Re: Allergy! Alas.... In-Reply-To: On Tue, 18 Jul 1995, Hans-Ulrich THOMAS wrote: > >Do any others have allergy tales? What did you do about the allergy > >- were you able to get rid of it? Frankly, I like the snake bite theory. I'm allergic to bees and I run 1500+ hives. However the stings don't affect me, just the bees. So I try not to roll in them. My son got sensitive when he was small. He's out right now pulling (I hope) a couple of hundred supers of honey. I remember driving him to the hospital and sitting outside to see if it got bad enuff to take him in. It didn't - quite. He was stubborn kid (come to think of it he hasn't changed) and he insisted in walking around barefoot in the honey house and of course he got a few nicks in his feet from the bees he walked on and lo and behold he got over it. A beekeeper friend had a son who got very sensitive and took treatment. I think he is extracting in the family honey house right now. Many doctors (it seems to me) don't know what a real bee-sting allergy is. A lot think that swelling (normal) is a sign of the end. I had a bunch of my extractor ops diagnosed as 'allergic' by some twit who didn't know that swelling is a normal reaction :( Anything that doesn't kill you only makes you stronger. Allen W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper VE6CFK Rural Route One Swalwell Alberta Canada T0M 1Y0 Email: dicka@cuug.ab.ca or allend@internode.net Futures, Art & Honey:http://www.cuug.ab.ca:8001/~dicka ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Jul 1995 17:15:00 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Kerry Clark 784-2225 fax (604) 784 2299" Subject: Re: Mite strategy: splits Allen Dick asked for clarification of the advice to reduce tracheal mites, by making splits, and removing them after a few days flight. The idea is to make splits from tracheal mite infested colonies, leave the splits near the parent colonies for a few days, then remove the splits to a new location. In field trials of this method, the splits ended up with only about 10 % of the infestation (% of bees with mites) as the parent hives (both groups had new queens). That's as good as a chemical treatment. Possibly it results from the older (infested) bees returning to the parent hives, while a cohort of relatively less infested bees ended up in the splits, and continued to out-reproduce the mites. The parent hives could be treated, or used as "dead-end" units, used for honey production then killed. Kerry Clark, Apiculture Specialist B.C. Ministry of Agriculture 1201 103 Ave Dawson Creek B.C. V1G 4J2 CANADA Tel (604) 784-2225 fax (604) 784-2299 INTERNET KCLARK@GALAXY.GOV.BC.CA ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Jul 1995 23:34:17 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Mike High Subject: Re: Allergy! Alas.... Sounds to me like you just gottoo much of a "good thing"(i.e. bee venom)Remember if twas a wasp or hornet they are full o venom! Either or never give up beekeeping,just take care.Good luck!(BTW I got nailed 3 times in the same spot m'self today while robbing to get honey for a fair exibit,I sypathise!) ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 Jul 1995 02:01:43 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Dave D. Cawley, a De Leon Socialist" Subject: Re: Mite strategy > From: "Kerry Clark 784-2225 fax (604) 784 2299" > I'd like us to consider a concise, broadly applicable strategy to live > with parasitic mites of honey bees. There is a lot of information > available, and we're a lot better equipped now than a few years ago, but > still there appears to be a lack of consensus about basic things such as > treatment or damage thresholds, or spring cf. fall treatment. I haven't heard any talk of this yet...but do the *mites* have a preditor or parasite that could be used against them? ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Dave D. Cawley | The information on the Internet is only University Of Scranton | interesting to people who are interested Scranton, Pennsylvania | in it. dave@scranton.com | -Scranton Tomorrow Spokeswoman ddc1@jaguar.uofs.edu | refusing invitation to Internet Cafe's opening ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 Jul 1995 12:55:36 GMT+2 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "@" Organization: NIPB Subject: Re: Allergy! Alas.... Greetings all I find the whole cross-immunity story very intere-sting, but never heard any explanation that makes a lot of sense to me. In an ever more legally-conscious world, this will have to be worked out sometime. My story. Throughout my youth I showed almost no reaction at all to mosquito bites - and I had plenty. When I started working with bees I exhibited what I guess was normal swelling, which gradually decreased to nothing over a period of about three years. Now I hardly react at all to bee stings - but if I get bitten by a mosquito, I swell up in balloon fashion. Co-incidence? Perhaps! As an aside: bee venom is very similar to cobra venom, in composition and in effect. There are many beekeepers who routinely get stung by hundreds of bees and show no reaction. Are they cross-resistant to cobras as well. Any volunteers? Cheers Mike Mike Allsopp Honeybee Research Unit email: rietma@plant2.agric.za Plant Protection Res. Inst. pprima@plant1.agric.za Agricultural Research Council Tel: (0027) (021) 887-4690 Private Bag X5017 Fax: (0027) (021) 883-3285 Stellenbosch 7599 South Africa ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 Jul 1995 08:19:08 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Kelley Rosenlund Subject: Re: Bees in cavity wall - summary > >It's (almost) always worked for me. I make my own cone escape from >window screen. The end hole should be only big enough for a bee to >squeeze out of (5/16) inch diameter max. and the cone should be about 8 >inches tall and the base diameter about the same. Staples work on wood >or duct tape on other materials. Be sure the exit hole is large enough to let a drone through. A beekeeper friend of mine had a drone get stuck in the exit & die trapping all the bees in the colony. I am currently working on removing a hive from a hollow brick cornerstone and they kept finding a way in. I think it is finally sealed, and the hive population has exploded! This is my first time and it is very exciting!!! God Bless, Kelley Rosenlund (rosenlk@freenet.ufl.edu) Gainesville, Florida, U.S.A. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 Jul 1995 10:25:13 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Alden Leatherman Subject: colony removal An acquaintance of mine in Chehalis Washington has a colony of bees under his roof (over a cathedral ceiling). Anyone in the area who would be interested in helping him remove the bees or offering him advice for his situation (or knows of someone in the area who may), please email me and I will put you in contact with him. Thanks, Alden alden_leatherman@state.mi.us Date: 07/19/1995 10:03 am (Wednesday) From: Alden Leatherman To: i:bee-l@uacscw.albany.edu Subject: Colony removal An acquaintance of mine in Chehalis Washington has a colony of bees under his roof (over a cathedral ceiling). Anyone in the area who would be interested in helping him remove the bees or offering him advice for his situation, please email me and I will put you in contact with him. Thanks, Alden alden_leatherman@state.mi.us ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 Jul 1995 07:31:48 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Eric Abell Subject: Re: Allergy! Alas.... In-Reply-To: <199507181803.LAA14754@luminary.sanjose.compass-da.com> A few years ago Dr. James Day of Kingston Ontario was working on stings and sensitivity and one of the conclusions was that of the many stinging insects around, there was no relationship between sensitivities. That is, you can be sensitive the the sting of one and not to others. The advice to see a Doctor is good although it is of little use unless the Doctor in knowledgeable in this area. Students I hire will get stung, get a little swelling, run to a Doctor, be told to take it easy for a few days - stay home from work, take two aspirins and come back in a few days. I guess the Doctor is playing it safe but I dearly wish there was some way to educate these people to what is normal and what is not. Eric Abell email: eabell@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca Gibbons, AB, T0A 1N0 Canada (403) 998 3143 On Tue, 18 Jul 1995, John Day wrote: > hi casey, > > possibly a reaction to a combination of both bee and wasp stings? ask the doc. > have you been stung by wasps in the past with no reactions? > > john > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 Jul 1995 10:03:07 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Kelley Rosenlund Subject: Re: Allergy! Alas.... Being a new beekeeper I have gone from being fully suited, (long pants, rubber boots, gloves, jacket & of course veil) in April when I got my first hive to short pants and just a veil now with 9 hives, if the bees aren't to nasty. I hardly swell up now and when I get stung it does not hurt as much as before. By the way, I used to have left handed days or right handed days when my left or right hand would keep getting stung. I was working with a beekeeper last week & he puts wintergreen alcohol where he got stung to dissolve the pheromones that entice other bees to sting. It seems to work... God Bless, Kelley Rosenlund (rosenlk@freenet.ufl.edu) Gainesville, Florida, U.S.A. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 Jul 1995 11:28:23 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: PREVOST - YVES Subject: Entomological Society of Ontario Annual Meeting Comments: To: entomo-l@uoguelph.ca Comments: cc: ecolog-l@ubvm.umd.edu, socinsct@albnyvm1.bitnet, biodiv-l@bdt.ftpt.br 132nd Annual meeting of the ENTOMOLOGICAL SOCIETY OF ONTARIO September 22-24 1995 Holiday Inn Downtown 350 Dalhousie Street Ottawa Ontario Hotel reservations $80.00/night at 1-800-465-4329 or 1-613-241-1000 or FAX 1-613-241-4804 attn TAMARA before August 22 1995. Rooms on a first come basis. Meeting registration is $55.00 and $45.00(student) Make cheques payable to the Entomological Society of Ontario and send to: Dr. J.E. Hollebone Entomological Society of Ontario c/o Agriculture and Agri-Food Canada Plant Protection Division 59 Camelot Drive 2nd Floor West Nepean Ontario K1A 0Y9 Program includes discussions on Biodiversity, Biotechnology and Biocontrol. Invited speakers are: Biodiversity Dr. Adrian Forsyth, Conservation International Washington D.C. Dr. Robert Anderson Canadian Museum of Nature Ottawa Biotechnology Dr. Virginia Walker Queens University Kingston Biocontrol Dr. Daniel Codere University of Montreal Montreal Dr. Doug Parker Agriculture Canada Ottawa There will be the Students' paper in the President's Prize Competition which is always a lot of fun. Submitted Papers A Visit of Canada's National Insect Collection A Saturday Banquet, Entertainment, and the Presentation of Awards. This meeting will be informative, educational as well as fun. If you never been out to one of the Entomological Society of Ontario's Meeting, come on out. Make this year the year. You won't regret it. Submitted by: Yves Prevost yprevost@sky.lakeheadu.ca. 807 343 8342. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 Jul 1995 08:45:00 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Kerry Clark 784-2225 fax (604) 784 2299" Subject: Re Mite strategy: predators? Dave Cawley asked if bee mites have any predators or parasites that could be used against them. As far as I know, there are no records of straightforward predators of bee mites. To stretch the point, however, one tactic I've seen is to use a wire mesh bottom board (3 mm holes = 8 mesh per inch). Any controls that are applied (even sublethal ones) would be more effective, since the mites which fall down (perhaps to recover and return to the cluster) fall through the mesh and are more vulnerable to general predators (ants, predaceous mites etc). If the bottom board is attractive for other reasons (they provide good ventilation even when the colony is confined for moving) it may be something that some beekeepers could adopt. Kerry Clark, Apiculture Specialist B.C. Ministry of Agriculture 1201 103 Ave Dawson Creek B.C. V1G 4J2 CANADA Tel (604) 784-2225 fax (604) 784-2299 INTERNET KCLARK@GALAXY.GOV.BC.CA ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 Jul 1995 10:37:59 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Subject: Re: Allergy! Alas.... In-Reply-To: On Wed, 19 Jul 1995, Eric Abell wrote: > the Doctor in knowledgeable in this area. Students I hire will get > stung, get a little swelling, run to a Doctor, be told to take it easy > for a few days - stay home from work, take two aspirins and come back in > a few days. I guess the Doctor is playing it safe but I dearly wish > there was some way to educate these people to what is normal and what is not. The Alberta Beekeepers Association resolved at the last general meeting to qpproach the Canadian Honey Council to resurrect the research info developed a few years ago witht the goal in mind of generating (seperate) fact sheets to release to doctors and the public to combat misinformation in these matters. My followup requests for info in the progress indicate the project seems to be stalled at present. Allen W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper VE6CFK Rural Route One Swalwell Alberta Canada T0M 1Y0 Email: dicka@cuug.ab.ca or allend@internode.net Futures, Art & Honey:http://www.cuug.ab.ca:8001/~dicka ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 Jul 1995 20:31:46 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Bill Miller Subject: Re: Mite strategy Kerry Clark (of British Columbia) mentions Formic Acid as one of his Varroa treatments. To the best of my knowledge, using Formic Acid as a Varroa treatment is illegal in the U.S. (somebody please say if this has changed recently). As for myself, I now plan on using two Apisan applications/year. I use 2 strips/colony installed in late February (local restart of brood rearing), and two more strips go in in late August. The strips stay in for 6 weeks, and are then discarded. My local honeyflow starts in the third week of April. My Varroa control goals are more long-range, and are directed toward finding the resistant bee. To my fellow beekeepers: Should you catch a wild colony's swarm (or otherwise get a colony of wild origins), if at all possible keep it as a seperate colony, do not requeen it, and do not treat it for mites. If such a colony lives for a few years, then you might just have found the Varroa resistant bee strain that we have all been looking for. W. G. Miller Gaithersburg, MD ps What other North American insects are Varroa hosts besides honeybees? ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 20 Jul 1995 09:31:58 +0100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "M.Westby" suspend bee-l ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 20 Jul 1995 11:39:21 +0100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Malcolm Roe Subject: Re: Clipping Queens In-Reply-To: <9507150405.AA15423@crosfield.co.uk> from "David E Stephenson" at Jul 14, 95 04:43:23 pm David Stephenson asked: > I am fairly new to beekeeping was thinking about clipping my queens in case > they swarm so they will be easier to catch. I have heard both pros and cons > to doing this. I was just wondering what anybodies thoughts are on this and > if it really works and does it harm the hive in any way? There was discussion on this topic between 24 and 31 May this year. I suggest you have a look through the archives (log9505). To summarise: most replies opposed the practice. I'm still not convinced and will continue to clip my queens. Note that it doesn't prevent swarming and, unless you arrive within a few hours of a swarm attempting to leave, doesn't help you catch the old queen either. (She just dies.) What it does do is prevent you loosing the rest of the swarm. After they find the queen is no longer with them the bees return to the hive. You must still act before the first virgin queen emerges but you've gained some more time so that swarm control becomes practical during weekly inspections. See Gordon Scott's reply on 31 May for more details. -- Malcolm Roe Phone : +44 1442 345104 Crosfield Electronics Ltd Fax : +44 1442 343000 Hemel Hempstead, Herts. HP2 7RH, UK E-mail : roe@crosfield.co.uk ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 20 Jul 1995 13:19:29 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: John Harbo Subject: Amer Bee Research Conf AMERICAN BEE RESEARCH CONFERENCE Athens, Georgia, Sept. 23-26, 1995 The 1995 American Bee Research Conference will be held at the University of Georgia Center for Continuing Education in Athens, Georgia. Presentations of papers will be on Monday and Tuesday, September 25-26. Everybody is welcome to attend, and researchers from all countries are invited to present papers. The meeting provides an opportunity to present current research findings to those attending as well as to a worldwide audience via the American Bee Journal. The meeting attempts to combine an informal social setting with the structure of scientific presentation and discussion to create a climate for scientific learning and professional cooperation. Since many people want to travel on Saturday to take advantage of low air fares, there will be a social mixer on Saturday night (Sept.23) at the Georgia Center. On Sunday morning there will be a field trip; on Sunday afternoon (3PM), the American Association of Professional Apiculturists will hold its annual meeting; on Sunday evening (7PM), the American Bee Research Conference will have its business meeting. Both meetings will be in a conference room at the Georgia Center. Research presentations will begin Monday morning and end about noon on Tuesday. The group will share an informal dinner on Monday night. For information on costs and lodging and for instructions about presenting a paper (Sept 10 deadline for titles), contact John Harbo 504/767-9288, FAX 504/766-9212, E-Mail JHARBO@ASRR.ARSUSDA.GOV ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 20 Jul 1995 08:51:00 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Kerry Clark 784-2225 fax (604) 784 2299" Subject: Re Mite strategy: U.S. formic W.G. Miller pointed out that formic acid is not registered for varroa control in the U.S., suggested collecting feral bees for varroa resistance, and wondered what other North American insects are hosts for varroa. Other hosts? My understanding is that although adult varroa may rarely be found on beehive-visiting insects (wasps, bumblebees) and even rodents (or beekeepers), reproduction only occurs in honey bee brood. So there is no reservoir of varroa outside of honey bee colonies, but there's a small possibility of varroa transfer by things other than honey bees (insignificant in areas where varroa is established). Yes, formic acid is not registered for bee use in the U.S. Why? As a generic product, it is less attractive than a proprietary product like Apistan, to a company who wishes to market it. The costs of registration might be borne by such a company, registration obtained, but then beekeepers might simply use the industrial product. Where's the profit? (This is just an observation, certainly not a suggestion that unregistered products should be used if someone personally justifies it.) The U.S. Office of IR4 (a program to register pesticides for minor uses or industries) has been working for at least 6 months, on the registration of formic acid for bee use. I have been dissappointed to see apparently uninformed or misleading comments in the advice column of ABJ regarding formic acid. That it is unregistered and therefore should not at the moment be used in the U.S. is clear. Trying to reinforce the situation with alarmist rhetoric is ... dissappointing. The twice a year Apistan option? The problem with constantly using (even at recommended rates) a single active ingredient against a pest (or even similar products with near- identical mode of action eg? Apistan/Bayvarol), is that it sets the stage for the pest to develop resistance. Rotation of control products with different modes of action is a strategy to prolong the (years of) effectiveness of each of the products. None of the products I consider effective against bee mites is absolutely safe or fool proof. Some ingredients and formulations have advantages over others, especially in certain situations. I hope and trust that a process that includes thoughtful planning and evidence-based, rational consideration of the options, will give us the best chance to deal with varroa in the long term. Are feral bees more likely to be varroa resistant? There's an ABRC abstract in Dec '94 ABJ, where "tracheal mite survivor" feral bee stock was compared to others and found no more resistant than unselected stock. Varroa resistance is even less likely to be found, than tracheal mite resistance, so I wouldn't expect much from this strategy. I'd guess most swarms or feral colonies in varroa areas, are recent escapes from managed, treated colonies. Eventually, yes, a symbiotic relationship between bees and varroa is a good objective. Select the bees? select the mites? natural selection? Thanks for the comments Kerry Clark, Apiculture Specialist B.C. Ministry of Agriculture 1201 103 Ave Dawson Creek B.C. V1G 4J2 CANADA Tel (604) 784-2225 fax (604) 784-2299 INTERNET KCLARK@GALAXY.GOV.BC.CA ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 20 Jul 1995 11:41:08 PDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Adrian Wenner Subject: Re: Re Mite strategy: U.S. formic p.s., Kerry, Here's a personal comment on the E.P.A activity. The U.S. policy is so stringent that really dangerous chemicals can be used (having been approved by the E.P.A), while the use of relatively harmless substances (oftentimes more effective) is illegal. For instance, to kill yellow jacket wasps, one can legally use RAID, which includes insecticides and (though not stated on the label) methyl chloroform. As far as I can tell, the famous "knock-down" power of RAID stems from the inclusion of methyl chloroform as a "carrier" (hence not subject to regulation), which anaethetizes the wasps or bee and causes them to plummet to the ground. However, one cannot legally use soapy water (a tablespoon of kitchen detergent in a spray bottle full of water), because that substance has not been approved by the E.P.A. Thus, we have a backwards law; one cannot use any substance unless it has gone through a testing procedure. But, no company is going to "test" (at great expense) a relatively inexpensive and readily available product. Perhaps you can appreciate why I now sometimes privately refer to the E.P.A. as the M.P.A. (monopoly protection agency). Fortunately, the E.P.A. does not have the resources to police all that happens on the individual level and does not even bother to object when one recommends an unapproved technique. Hilary Dole Klein and I published a book (TINY GAME HUNTING, Bantam) a few years ago with all sorts of environmentally safe remedies for controlling pests in house and garden. Despite the so-called illegality of most recipes, no one from the E.P.A. came knocking at our door. The Australian/New Zealand edition of that book is now out, but the U.S. version is out of print. Will you be going to Georgia in September for the ABRC meetings? Adrian *************************************************************** * Adrian Wenner E-Mail wenner@lifesci.lscf.ucsb.edu * * Department of Biology Office Phone (805) 893-2838 * * University of California Lab Phone (805) 893-2838 * * Santa Barbara, CA 93106 FAX (805) 893-4724 * *************************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 20 Jul 1995 11:54:13 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: John Day Subject: Re: Re Mite strategy: U.S. formic altho the use of formic acid is technically illegal, does anyone know how to apply it "for experimental" reasons not connected with the eradication of anything pertaining to honey bees nor the reception of satellite signals. (tongue in cheek) john ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 20 Jul 1995 15:40:15 GMT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: MEMO 1995/07/20 15:50 From: John E III Taylor Subject: Re[2]: Re Mite strategy: U.S. formic Subject: Re: Re Mite strategy: U.S. formic From: SMTP.BEEL1 at ROHMAIL Date: 7/20/95 2:56 PM > altho the use of formic acid is technically illegal, does anyone know how > to apply it "for experimental" reasons not connected with the eradication > of anything pertaining to honey bees nor the reception of satellite signals. > (tongue in cheek) It'd be nice if you could get the Material Safety Data Sheet (MSDS) for this material. You might be able to get one quickly from a laboratory chemicals supplier like Sigma-Aldrich (unfortunately I don't have their address handy). While some MSDSs seem (to me) like overkill, _believe_ the one for formic acid. It is nasty stuff that causes serious and painful burns to human skin. John E. Taylor III W3ZID | "The opinions expressed are those of the E-Mail: mah48d@rohmhaas.com | writer and not of Rohm and Haas Company." ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 20 Jul 1995 15:40:58 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Subject: Re: Re[2]: Re Mite strategy: U.S. formic In-Reply-To: > > It'd be nice if you could get the Material Safety Data Sheet (MSDS) for this > material. You might be able to get one quickly from a laboratory chemicals > supplier like Sigma-Aldrich (unfortunately I don't have their address handy). There is a fact sheet available for formic. RTFFAQ. Come to think of it where is the FAQ? I don't think it's been posted in a (long) while. You can find this stuff (and more) though by going to my home page listed below and following the pointers to the beekeeping home page and (other interesting spots). If you don't have web access and can't find the FAQ, email me and I'll see what I can do. Allen W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper VE6CFK Rural Route One Swalwell Alberta Canada T0M 1Y0 Email: dicka@cuug.ab.ca or allend@internode.net Futures, Art & Honey:http://www.cuug.ab.ca:8001/~dicka ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 20 Jul 1995 18:04:35 +22300129 Reply-To: adamf@sunsite.unc.edu Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Adam Finkelstein Subject: FAQ and internet apicultural and beekeeping archive In-Reply-To: from "Allen Dick" at Jul 20, 95 03:40:58 pm Allen Dick wrote: > Come to think of it where is the FAQ? > I don't think it's been posted in a (long) while. Nope it hasn't. The reasons are: not much new has been added to it, and I've been waiting to get the archive site set up for any and every apicultural and beekeeping file. so now you may send me any files you like and I'll try to archive them soon. A real nice web page is in the works: please feel free to suggest links and anything else you'd like to see. Adam -- ________________________________ Adam Finkelstein adamf@vtaix.cc.vt.edu Adaptive significance-- what's that? ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 20 Jul 1995 22:16:48 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "MR WILLIAM L HUGHES JR." Subject: use of PVC pipe to extract honey Comments: To: daniel.tremblay@AGR.GOUV.QC.CA France Desjardins Wrote >I would like to know if plastic (PVC or ABS) black pipe ( the same type that >the one >that are used for sewage or for water) is frequently used as material to >extract honey? >And if the answer is yes, so what are the risks if there is any for the >innocuousness of the honey? >For example, do the glue used to link the parts of the pipes presents some >risks. PVC pipe is used a water supply lines to almost all new homes. If the glue was unsave I doubt if any state would allow its use. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 Jul 1995 10:32:59 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Malcolm (Tom) Sanford, Florida Extension Apiculturist" Subject: July issue of APIS Distributed to: USR:[MTS]INTERNET.DIS;67, mts FILENAME: JULAPIS.95 Florida Extension Beekeeping Newsletter Apis--Apicultural Information and Issues (ISSN 0889-3764) Volume 13, Number 7, July 1995 Copyright (c) 1995 M.T. Sanford "All Rights Reserved" WIDENING THE POLLINATION PERSPECTIVE Dr. Keith Delaplane at the recent Beekeepers Institute at Young Harris, Georgia discussed a variety of non-Apis bees that are potential pollinators. He urged those present to become actively involved in helping to conserve these so-called "pollen bees" (see April 1994 APIS). Allowing fields to fallow and fence rows to grow up in wild plants, Dr. Delaplane said, will help conserve the vegetation all insect pollinators, including honey bees, need for forage. In addition, these practices will help preserve the soil nesting sites required by many solitary bees. This message should be spread by beekeepers, Dr. Delaplane concluded, because few others are knowledgeable enough to do the job adequately. For rabid honey beephiles, some of Dr. Delaplane's remarks might have raised a few eyebrows. Historically, many are concerned only with the welfare of Apis. Other bees have often been relegate to the sidelines because they produce no honey. However, it is becoming clear that concentrating on honey bees as either the only pollinators in the environment or the most efficient is no longer tenable (see June 1992 APIS). That said, Apis mellifera still remains the principal manageable resource agriculturalists can use to increase yields and crop quality. And there is mounting evidence (see March 1993 and January 1994 APIS) that growers are finally receiving the message beekeepers have been trying to communicate for many years. Simply put, pollination is just as important an input as irrigation, fertilization and pesticide application. Pollination is difficult to measure, however, and honey bee colony performance may not always be up to par. According to Dr. Eric Mussen, writing in his May/June 1995 From the UC Apiaries, the latter is likely to be a contentious topic. Growers, he says, want to rent highly populous colonies that cannot fail to provide 100 percent pollination. Few farmers or average citizens are aware, Dr. Mussen says, that darkness, rain, heavy fog and winds more than 12 miles an hour (conditions prevalent during a series of winter storms in California) not only kept honey bees inside their hives, but also caused pollen degradation and the spread of plant diseases. These conditions resulted in production losses, according to Dr. Mussen, practically ignored until California cherries became priced four times higher than normal this shipping season. In spite of efforts to communicate a different message, however, the simple perception spread by The Wall Street Journal and other media sources prevailed, according to Dr. Mussen. The honey bees, and by extension the beekeeper, didn't get the job done. Thus, it's up to the beekeeper, Dr. Mussen concludes, to inform growers and others about the problems associated with keeping honey bees and using them as pollinators. Many do not realize how much expense is involved in managing colonies, nor what other factors might affect pollination success, including environmental conditions and the role of alternative pollinators. Both Drs. Delaplane and Mussen seem to agree. The beekeeper is in the best position to consult with growers not just about honey bee rental, but pollination problems in general. Thus, the day may have finally dawned for pollination to become the growth industry many predicted (See November 1993 APIS). In order to remain credible, however, apiculturalists must widen their pollination perspective. Instead of simply focusing on the management of honey bee populations, they should become experts in all facets of the pollination process, including the role played by other pollinators. POLLINATION INFORMATION RESOURCES I listed some principal pollination resources beekeepers could use in the March 1995 APIS. That issue concentrated on commercial honey bee pollination and contained some pointed remarks by David Green, publisher of the Eastern Pollinator Newsletter, P.O. Box 1215, Hemingway, SC 29554. Since then, other resources have become available. One mentioned by Dr. Mussen in his newsletter (cited above) is a videotape released by the A.I. Root Co, The Honey Bee--A Grower's Guide. This program sells for $49.95; its catalog number is XV219. To order, call 1-800/289-7668 Extension 3219. He quotes the producers as saying, "What this video does for you as a pollinator, is guarantee a grower he is getting his money's worth when hiring you." A Guide to Managing Bees for Crop Pollination has just been released by the Canadian Association of Professional Apiculturists (CAPA). Although concentrating on honey bees, this publication also contains information on other factors affecting pollination. The 34-page booklet contains seven chapters: Pollination, Pollinating Agents, Primary Insect Pollinator - The Honey Bee, Management of Bee Colonies for Pollination, Management of Alternative Bee Pollinators, Pollination Requirements of Specific Crops, Pesticide Hazards and Bee Pollinators. Two sections are of particular interest. One discusses other insect pollinators and another focuses on pollination aids. According to the publication, although honey bees are the most important pollinator, alternatives do exist. However, the management of these pollinators is as varied as the insects themselves. The technology to rear the leafcutting bee, Megachile rotundata, is well defined, as is that for the orchard bee (Osmia), cultivated in Japan for apple pollination. The bumble bee (Bombus) is an important pollinator of native plants because it has a long tongue, forages during cold temperatures and buzz-pollinates (sonicates the anthers, causing pollen discharge). However, the rearing practices for bumble bees are not easily undertaken by the novice. The best advice, according to the publication, is to provide nesting habitat and a wide variety of food plants these insects need to complete their reproduction. In his remarks at Young Harris College, Dr. Delaplane recounted some of what he has learned about rearing bumble bees. Calling them, the "hamsters of the bee world," he has designed a nest box and is trying to get these insects to complete their life cycle under controlled conditions. Most bumble bee rearing currently depends on capturing wild queens in early spring, letting the colony grow and abandoning it to its natural senescence in the fall. Because these rearing practices are time-consuming and complex, each insect in a bumble bee nest pollinating tomatoes in greenhouses may be worth as much as $1.25! As a pollinating aid, the publication describes the concept of using a pollenizer, a plant variety providing a source of compatible pollen for cross-pollination. The use of pollen inserts that automatically apply pollen to bees a the hive's entrance is also explained, as are techniques that reduce competition from other plants that may be blooming at the same time. Finally, there is the possibility of directing or luring bees to crops. The latter is controversial and requires a good deal more study. According to the publication, directing bees to target crops is difficult if the flowering plants have little or no pollen or nectar available, or if the crops provide less reward than nearby forage. The best attraction occurs when the target crop's odor is incorporated into the colony's food supply. Although spraying sugar syrup on plants may increase the number of visiting bees, the publication concludes, this seldom results in more yield. More research is needed to prove that pollen odors from extracts attract bees to plants requiring pollination. Of the substances used to lure honey bees to plants, only those based on bee pheromones appear to hold much promise, according to the publication. The queen produces a five-component Queen Mandibular Pheromone (QMP) that has been synthesized and is sold under the name FruitBoost(R) in Canada. The publication states, "QMP is mixed with water and sprayed on crops slightly preceding peak bloom. Research on apples, pears, cherries, cranberries and blueberries indicate that QMP is effective in increasing the number of honey bees foraging on these crops under a wide range of environmental conditions, orchard management systems and geographical locations." Unfortunately, there is no information provided for Phero Tech, Inc., the manufacturer of FruitBoost(R). My latest communication from this company in 1992 stated the address to be 7572 Progress Way, Delta, BC, Canada V4G1E9, ph 604/940-9944, fax 604/940-9433. The CAPA publication, along with the pollinator's bible, Agriculture Handbook 496 (see April 1995 APIS), is an indispensable tool for the pollination consultant. The handbook continues to be available from both the Tucson Bee Laboratory, 2000 E. Allen Rd., Tucson, AZ 85719 and the Weslaco Bee Laboratory, 2413 E. Hwy. 13, Weslaco, TX 78596. The CAPA booklet can be purchased from the American Association of Professional Apiculturists (AAPA) for $5.00 each ($3.50 each in units of 10 or more) plus shipping costs. For details on ordering, contact Dr. Marion Ellis, University of Nebraska, Department of Entomology, P.O. Box 83583-0816, Lincoln, NE 68583-0816, ph 402/472-8696, fax 402/472-4687. PHEROMONAL ATTRACTANTS Besides the FruitBoost(R) mentioned above, several other pheromonal attractants have been marketed (see February 1991 APIS), Bee Here(R) and Bee-Scent(R). The evidence for how valuable these products are as pollination aids has been mixed. Two specific studies I have in my possession deal with the product Bee-Scent(R), manufactured by Scentry, Inc., P.O. Box 426, Buckeye, AZ 85326- 0090, ph 602/386-6737. The first is by G. Elmstron and D. Maynard at the University of Florida, 1990, "Attraction of Honey Bees to Watermelon with Bee Attractant," Proc. Fla. State Hort. Soc. 103:130-133. These investigators found signs of increased bee activity at one location and that the bee attractant may have been responsible for early fruit set in southwest Florida. However, results on fruit quality were inconclusive. The authors concluded the use of the product might be beneficial when bee populations are low, during periods of cold, windy or overcast weather and/or if nearby plants were competing for the bees' attention. A more recent study was done in North Carolina, J. Ambrose and co-authors, 1995, "An Evaluation of Selected Commercial Bee Attractants in the Pollination of Cucumbers and Watermelons," American Bee Journal 134:267-272. The authors found no increase in bee activity nor yield for either crop using two attractants, BeeLine(R) and Bee-Scent(R). They do note, however, that other investigators, including those in the first study mentioned above, did have more positive results. Part of the reason for mixed results in these studies, the authors from North Carolina state, is that different kinds of "attractants" have been used. They can be divided into three groups: feeding stimulants [BeeLine(R)], those based on worker pheromones [Bee-Scent(R)] and others based on queen pheromone [FruitBoost(R)]. They conclude: "There is always the consideration that under marginal pollination conditions (adverse weather), that one or more of the attractants may serve as an 'insurance policy' for adequate crop pollination. However, even under that scenario the grower should evaluate the cost of treating a crop with the bee attractant as opposed to renting additional colonies of honey bees." The complexity involved in carrying out and analyzing studies on bee attractants was subsequently brought out in a letter to the editor of American Bee Journal, published in the July 1995 issue. Dr. T. Ferrari takes the North Carolina researchers to task, stating in no uncertain terms that their recommendation not to use bee attractants was unwarranted. He said that because no "pollination problem" had been identified, there was little possibility to evaluate improved foraging by bees on the crops in question. In addition, he suggested that "no matter how tedious," the amount of pheromone in tests before and after treatment should be measured. Sincerely, Malcolm T. Sanford Bldg 970, Box 110620 University of Florida Gainesville, FL 32611-0620 Phone (904) 392-1801, Ext. 143 FAX: 904-392-0190 BITNET Address: MTS@IFASGNV; INTERNET Address: MTS@GNV.IFAS.UFL.EDU APIS on the World Wide Web-- http://gnv.ifas.ufl.edu/~entweb/apis/apis.htm Copyright (c) M.T. Sanford 1995 "All Rights Reserved" ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 Jul 1995 12:52:38 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Dave Green, Eastern Pollinator Newsletter" Subject: This barrenness scares me. I have become increasingly concerned with the obvious decline of pollinators. We have been blaming varroa mites for loss of many honeybees, but the collapse of other species is just as significant. My observations this past week idicate that the situation is worse, much worse, that I ever thought. I did a 150 mile circle yesterday, looking at bee populations of all types throughout sections of five counties, all heavily planted to cotton this year. I saw numerous insecticide applications being done during the peak foraging times of the bees (a violation of label directions). From 7 am to 4 pm, in areas, where three years ago there were abundant foragers of several species of bees, there is nothing. I looked at bloom from cotton, soybeans, and a number of weeds. There were a few wasps, some moths, an occasional butterfly, but I saw NOT A SINGLE bumblebee during the entire day, and ONLY ONE solitary bee. This barrenness scares me. Last month I was out of the cotton growing area and in a watermelon and cantaloupe field I was able to spot a couple hundred bees of at least 6 different species in five minutes. This is more normal. Honeybees were also totally absent, excepting near known hives, and were still sparsely represented on the flowers, compared to past seasons. These bees (at hive entrances) were carrying identifiable pollen mostly from cotton from before 7 am to noon. A few were also carrying soybean, ironweed, and other pollens, starting and finishing about an hour later. Are we eradicating our pollinators? Pollinator@aol.com Dave Green PO Box 1215, Hemingway, SC 29554 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 Jul 1995 12:55:20 EDT Reply-To: rgendrea@foxboro.com Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Roland Gendreau Subject: Poor Honey Flow? I'm a hobbyist with two hives, one of which was built from a swarm from the original hive this past June. I'm concerned that the honey flow this year is much less than what it was last year. At this point, each hive has two hive bodies, lots of brood in the lower one and the upper one nearly full. Each also has one nearly full super, and one empty super that has new foundation. The bees seem to not be drawing much wax on the new foundation. The new supers are between the upper brood box and the nearly full super. I've noticed over the past week that the bees are doing a lot of hanging around the landing board, even when flying conditions are good. At first I noticed this behaviour at the end of a hot days, and it seemed like a normal end to a hot busy day of foraging. Could this 'hanging around' instead be an indication that the honey flow is down, maybe due to the dry weather we have had this month? Thanks in advance! Roland rgendrea@foxboro.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 Jul 1995 10:26:24 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: John Day Subject: Re: This barrenness scares me. Comments: cc: Pollinator@aol.com recently dave green wrote about insecticides and the lack of bees in the cotton plantings. he also wrote about the only noticable bees being in a hive area. i wondered about the losses to the beekeepers from bees out there when the pesticides were sprayed. although a hive may look busy, it probably wasn't as strong as when delivered due to deaths among the flowers. this only emphasizes the need to educate the growers about pesticide use. i personally grow organically, so no chemicals do harm to my soil, plants and beneficial insects, including honeybees. whenever a beekeeper delivers a hive, he should give a list of do's and don'ts to the grower, and stick a copy in the mailboxes of the surrounding neighbors. a side benefit to this is that perhaps the neighbors will want to rent hives also once they know the service is available. if nothing else, it will educate them to the harm pesticides really do. not mentioned in dave's message is the damage done by herbicides, which are used to reduce the weeds, which also flower and support all the pollinators out there. losing soil vitality thru chemical application will catch up with us all in the long run, so a program of education is urgent to stop the downward spiral. my 2 cents. john ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 Jul 1995 14:05:12 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Dave Green, Eastern Pollinator Newsletter" Subject: Wonder if this is source of *Killer Bee* stories? I have often not reported pesticide damage, because I discover it too late to really do any investigation. Some of my bees are normally seen only ever six weeks or so. During this pesticide season, I have resolved to check as many as possible weekly. I looked at about 250 hives yesterday, checking for damage. I had one bad hit about a month ago, but most of the bees are still in passable shape, with light damage at many sites. The temperature yesterday was in the high 90's (F), and this usually makes the bees so stressed that they just look at you and say *It's too hot to sting. How about a rain check?* I have often worked bees in a swimsuit in hot weather. I'm glad I didn't yesterday. While watching hive entrances (I was also trying to identify pollen loads), on three occasions, at three different sites, the bees suddenly passed the alarm message and they came after me en masse. It was impressive, even to this old hardhead. I wouldn't be surprised to find one bad hive, but this was reapeated. I have noticed before that bees with light pesticide damage can become very aggressive. Once in a while farmhands tell me about bad experiences with my bees, which I tend to be skepical about. I know a sting or two can turn into hundreds in the retelling. And MY bees are very gentle; they wouldn't chase someone out of a field. But bees like I saw yesterday, could really put a hurting on an inexperienced person. I don't know any solutions, I'm just keeping my fingers crossed. Most of the farm hands won't go anywhere near the bees, but an occasional one makes an effort to *rob* them, usually after quite a few beers. Pollinator@aol.com Dave Green PO Box 1215, Hemingway, SC 29554 *Didunt no nothin bout terramites till aunt Reba gave us that durn pieano* ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 Jul 1995 21:58:17 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Bill Miller Subject: Re: Poor Honey Flow? Comments: To: rgendrea@foxboro.com Ron, If you're wondering if a poor honeycrop is due to bad hive or a bad year, I suggest that you first talk to your local Beekeeping Association, and find out how other local beekeepers did. I note you forgot to give your geographic location in your message. Bad honey years happen, in fact our local flow (Montgomery County, MD, just north of Washington, DC) this year was the worst I can ever remember (and not just for me). And I am told that people just 15 miles away got bumper crops. There's always next year. W. G. Miller Gaithersburg, MD ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 22 Jul 1995 14:41:39 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ann Dougherty In-Reply-To: <950721215814_120244798@aol.com> A Swarm in May is worth a load of hay. A Swarm in June is worth a silver spoon. A Swarm in July isn't worth a fly. I caught seven pound swarm a couple days ago and expect to winter it. I am feeding it as I do to all swarms. Is the meaning of this poem that a swarm caught late in the season doesn't have time to build up to a normal size before winter? On another note...I will have more honey this year than I can eat or sell and am planning onselling to a packer. Trouble is I know of no wholesaler in the area. Also what is the current wholesale price and what do they look for with regards to quality and standards? ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 22 Jul 1995 20:06:53 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Boyd C Dickens Subject: Re: No Subject According to the American Bee Journal, as I understand it, the price of wholesale honey for the Northwest is 60 cents a pound. I hope this is of some help to you. Good luck with your seven pound liability, hopefully next spring it'll become an asset. Boyd ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 22 Jul 1995 22:21:00 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: ray_maxwell@NOVELL.COM with Novell_GroupWise; Tue, 11 Jul 1995 10:53:04 -0600 Content-Length: 109 Content-Type: text/plain Message-ID: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 4.1 Date: Tue, 11 Jul 1995 08:49:10 -0600 From: ray_maxwell@novell.com (Ray Maxwell) To: BEE-L@UACSC2.ALBANY.EDU Subject: Plastic frames, foundation, and combs -Reply The Bee supplier I use here in Utah has 1400 hives and all ever uses anymore are the plastic foundations. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 23 Jul 1995 04:27:35 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Subject: 1. Bad Poetry and 2. Selling Your (good) Honey In-Reply-To: Warning . . . Long and rambling! On Sat, 22 Jul 1995, Ann Dougherty wrote: > A Swarm in July isn't worth a fly. > > I caught seven pound swarm a couple days ago and expect to winter > it. I am feeding it as I do to all swarms. Is the meaning of this poem > that a swarm caught late in the season doesn't have time to build up to a > normal size before winter? It is impossible to advise personally those who do not accurately state their location with their requests for help, however here is an attempt: Since you don't say where in this large world you are physically located, I'll assume from your email address that you are in Washington State in the United States of America (and not in the mountains) and also not telnetted in from Alaska or Zimbabwe or somewhere. If this is true, for you the poem means that you aren't likely to get any significant honey this year from a swarm caught in July. Moreover, if the swarm issued from your own hive, your net overall production is likely going to be the same or less than it would have been if the swarm had been prevented, whereas an early swarm - like an early split - might have increased your total crop significantly. Nevertheless, a swarm caught in early July might well make five supers of comb honey plus enough stores to winter on here in Alberta. Even a swarm caught in late July can still perform a bit if the season is not cut short by an early frost or excessive rain etc. Seven pounds is a fairly respectable colony. When I depopulated some 200 colonies in October many years back in order to send package bees to Arizona, the average total weight of the bees in the colonies was found to be 8 pounds. You should check the queen carefully and make sure she is young and a good enough egg layer to last the winter and spring. Often swarms contain old worn out queens, altho' they may just as often contain (sometimes numerous) young queens. > On another note...I will have more honey this year than I can eat > or sell and am planning on selling to a packer. Trouble is I know of no > wholesaler in the area. Try Richard Turansky in Eugene, Oregon at (503) 689-0913. He has a truck that runs up into Washington weekly - as far as Portland for sure. > Also what is the current wholesale price and 50 to 55 cents (US) in drums in bulk lots is probably the top of the market right now for the very best water white clover honey. Depending on colour, moisture, terms, quantity, delivery etc., you may receive less. You may often not be paid until the product is packed and sold (and tested for purity in some cases). Others may comment and want to add to this. > what do they look for with regards to quality and standards? Well, that is a big question: personally - knowing what I know - I would be a bit nervous to buy from a hobbyist I didn't know because of all the freaky things that people tinkering with their bees and not trained in the intricacies of the business and food handling might get into the product. There is the risk of contaminating large lots of honey with one drum bought from a small operator. Having said this, however, many packers do purchase small lots and take that risk. That is not to say that larger commercial operators don't ever contaminate honey by using unauthorised medications and pesticides, unclean facilities, or by allowing dangerous materials to contact the honey, but the risk is much lower and the buyer can buy by reputation. There is also usually someone to sue if there is a problem. I should also hasten to add that many - if not most hobbyists - handle their honey with as much care as many commercials. What we are considering here is the danger of introducing a hazard due to lack of knowledge or experience. The FAQs that Andy Nachbaur manages have an article on honey house sanitation that all should read. Most of it is just common sense, and if you don't regularly poison yourself cooking in your kitchen, and if you carry commonsense kitchen practise to your honey activities, you are probably using the proper hygiene and utensils. If you only use safe and approved materials in and around your hives, and don't feed your bees strange things your honey is pretty well bound to be up to standard. As far as handling the hive itself is concerned, usually bees are able to handle a fair amount of musty, moldy and generally dirty looking comb during the season without contaminating the product, but there is a definite limit to what bees can do, and therefore commonsense must prevail here too. Bad storage of honeycombs (unsanitary or near hazardous goods) can lead to contamination of the honey that is eventually put in them by the bees. They can and do handle some normal dirt and mold, and old wax, but they cannot be expected to remove absorbed petroleum products or human and animal filth. Having said that, I must qualify by saying that some amount of mouse damage and droppings are usually dealt with nicely by strong hives if given time before the flow to clean up and sanitize, but the bees priorities and sensibilities are different from those of the average person. They are are just as likely to deal with the problem by propolising (cover with a disinfecting and sealing glue) the dead mouse and it's droppings as to remove them, so you should scrape off anything you find offensive and don't want to have fall or scrape off the frames into the honey when extracting. As far as debris in the honey from extracting, most packers are pretty tolerant of a few bees and a skiff of wax particles, if it is not more than 1/4 inch or so thick. Many will try to dock you for it though. It is easy to take a spatula and a bucket and skim the drum after filling and sitting overnight. It makes your product look better, so do it. Your containers (drums most likely) should be sound, free of interior rust (beyond a few scratches) and serious dents. They must never have even possibly been used for anything but food!!! And the food should not have been a strong flavoured one. Open top or closed top are acceptable to most packer, but the open top are standard and easier to clean and inspect. Liners (large polyethylene bags that go inside) are acceptable to some, but not all packers, and result in some loss of honey that clings to them. Barrels are cheap, why use anthing that is questionable? Moisture can be a problem in honey. It can come from extracting too early or be introduced after the supers are removed by storing them in a damp place awaiting extracting, or after barrelling by leaving the (sealed) barrel out in the rain. Water can and does regularly get under the lid through bung holes or under the rim when the air in the drum expands and contacts due to sun and rain. If you jar a sample of your liquid honey and compare it to a store bought one of similar size and shape and fill and temperature (number one pasteurised grade), you can easily tell if your moisture is okay. Just invert both jars and watch the bubbles rise. The store product should win the race because it will be at the maximum moisture permitted for sale as number one pasteurised grade and should be thinner than your unpasteurised honey must be for stable storage. Your honey will be thinnest on the day you extract it. Many honies tend to be thixotropic and become (a little or a lot) thicker on sitting. Of course there is *much* more to this, but these are the essentials that I can think of at the moment. Hope it helps and that others find it interesting and comment too. Allen W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper VE6CFK Rural Route One Swalwell Alberta Canada T0M 1Y0 Email: dicka@cuug.ab.ca or allend@internode.net Futures, Art & Honey:http://www.cuug.ab.ca:8001/~dicka ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 23 Jul 1995 10:40:34 +22300129 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Adam Finkelstein Subject: Observation hive questions. Hello. I'm using observation hives for some honey bee research and I have a question: Has anyone had experience with varying lengths of the entrance tube? I wonder if one meter is too long an entrance for a two frame observation hive (American Langstroth frame). Comments anecdotes feed-back would be appreciated: I'll summarize. thanks, Adam Entomology 324 Price Hall VA Tech, Blacksburg, VA 24001-0325 -- ________________________________ Adam Finkelstein adamf@vtaix.cc.vt.edu Adaptive significance-- what's that? ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 23 Jul 1995 11:46:09 -0500 Reply-To: godave@infi.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Dave Johnson Organization: mailhost.nr.infi.net Subject: cotton and honeybees Help please, My home, where I keep several colonies as a hobby beekeeper, has become surrounded by cotton fields. Farmers in southeastern Virginia have invested their cropland increasingly in cotton. More gins are being planned and built. I am looking for information/opinions regarding the pros and cons of cotton as a honey plant. I understand that cotton is somewhat unusual in that the plants have extrafloral nectaries, places apart from the bloom which give nectar, apparently are designed to attract beneficial insects. I also understand there is a high spray schedule for cotton, although I don't know why: I understand a defoliant is one of the last applications. Can anyone enlighten me as to the beneficial effect of honey bees on cotton for both the farmer and beekeeper in terms of pollination and honey production, respectively? What about a downside with regard to pesticide applications on these fields, many of which are well within a one half-mile radius from the colonies? The plants are beginning to bloom now, and I've noticed what looks like insect traps around the field borders. Real curious, Dave Johnson Suffolk, VA e-mail: godave@infi.net ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 23 Jul 1995 13:02:01 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: RICHARD E BONNEY Subject: Re: Observation hive questions. In-Reply-To: <199507231440.KAA41469@vtaix.cc.vt.edu> Adam I have seen a two frame observation hive with an 8-10 foot entrance tube. It worked fine but it was a short term arrangement, about four days, in a display at the county fair. At UMass we have about an 18 inch tube regularly. Dick Bonney rebon@ent.umass.edu ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 23 Jul 1995 15:58:04 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Mick Youther Subject: supering I am a beginner: I hived a 3 lb. package in late April in southern Illinois. Things seem to have gone well. I have always kept sugarwater available in a boardman feeder and their use of it is sporadic, depending on the weather. I have two deep hive bodies. When the bees were well on the way to having drawn out the second story( which I put on after the 1st was almost all drawn)-- I put on a queen excluder and a super. I checked the super the other day and found only the slightest trace of any comb drawing and two vertical holes, one along each side of the center frame of foundation. Did I super too soon or what? Thanks, ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 23 Jul 1995 15:03:25 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Michael Stoops Subject: Re: use of PVC pipe to extract honey Comments: To: mbristow@palomo.chillan.udec.cl In-Reply-To: <866.mbristow@[146.83.231.10]_POPMail/PC_3.2.2> I think there is a difference between the white PVC pipe and the black PVC pipe, the later being used for drainiage type situations (ie: land drainage and waste water drainage). Anybody else have same thoughts? ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 23 Jul 1995 15:15:26 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Michael Stoops Subject: Re: Allergy! Alas.... In-Reply-To: It's my understanding the the venom of different insects utilizes different alkeloids and so that would incite reactions to stings of one type of insect and not another. By the way, was stung by a scopion several years ago and had a little soreness and numbness in the area of the sting. Otherwise, not very affected. Was the mildness of the reaction due to tollerance built up doue to bee stings? Would like to think so. MIKE Sugar Land, TEXAS mws@tenet.edu ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 23 Jul 1995 15:28:17 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Michael Stoops Subject: Re: Mite strategy In-Reply-To: <950719203145_36440731@aol.com> In the control of mites, as a former biology major, it would seem to me that a microscopic investigation into the mites themselves might provide the biologiacl controls that are needed to either control, or eliminate, the mite problem. This type of researce would cost money and take time. Ergo, this might be a project for some honey council(s) to fund. I t weems to me that a biological control would be a lot more effective combatant than any chemical control. Those ites ore in the brachiaii of the bees. Hard area for chaemicals to get to. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 23 Jul 1995 11:22:19 -1000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Thomas W. Culliney -- State of Hawaii" Subject: Re: Allergy! Alas.... In-Reply-To: On Sun, 23 Jul 1995, Michael Stoops wrote: > It's my understanding the the venom of different insects utilizes > different alkeloids and so that would incite reactions to stings of one > type of insect and not another. By the way, was stung by a scopion > several years ago and had a little soreness and numbness in the area of > the sting. Otherwise, not very affected. Was the mildness of the > reaction due to tollerance built up doue to bee stings? Would like to > think so. MIKE Sugar Land, TEXAS mws@tenet.edu > After some nine years without receiving a honey bee sting, I found that I had developed a serious allergy to honey bee venom. Upon visiting an allergist, I was tested for allergic reactions to venoms of other stinging Hymenoptera (bumble bees, vespid wasps), and found not to be allergic to any but the honey bee venom. I reacted to the honey bee venom at the lowest concentration used. That one has no reaction to venoms of certain stinging arthropods (other than a localized reaction), therefore, does not mean one is tolerant of all venoms. It doesn't appear that even a lifetime of bee stings would protect one from an allergic reaction to other venoms, such as those of scorpions or spiders, for example. And one can lose an immunity over time, as I did. Going into anaphylactic shock was one heck of a rude awakening. Luckily, the immunotherapy is working like a charm, and I can now get stung as much as I want. Tom ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 23 Jul 1995 16:48:09 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Subject: Re: Mite strategy In-Reply-To: On Sun, 23 Jul 1995, Michael Stoops wrote: > In the control of mites, as a former biology major, it would seem to me > that a microscopic investigation into the mites themselves might provide > the biologiacl controls that are needed to either control, or eliminate, > the mite problem. This type of researce would cost money and take time. This has seemed to me to be a likely area for sucessful research. I wonder if any such work is being done? Allen W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper VE6CFK Rural Route One Swalwell Alberta Canada T0M 1Y0 Email: dicka@cuug.ab.ca or allend@internode.net Futures, Art & Honey:http://www.cuug.ab.ca:8001/~dicka ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 Jul 1995 00:08:07 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Mike High Subject: Re: supering Maybe you missed your honeyflow.They won't do much after its gone Mike ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 Jul 1995 01:47:49 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Phil Veldhuis Subject: Re: Observation hive questions. In-Reply-To: <199507231440.KAA41469@vtaix.cc.vt.edu> from "Adam Finkelstein" at Jul 23, 95 10:40:34 am Adam Finkelstein insightfully writes: > > Has anyone had experience with varying lengths of the entrance tube? YEs. I currently have a full size colony (10 frames) on display in a major art gallery. THe tube is over thirty (30) feet long. The tube is clear plexi of 3 inch diameter. > > I wonder if one meter is too long an entrance for a two frame observation > hive (American Langstroth frame). I would think not, IMHO. -- ------------oooooooooooooooOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOooooooooooooo------------- Phil Veldhuis | If I must be a fool, as all those who reason Winnipeg. MB, Canada | or believe any thing certainly are, my follies veldhui@cc.umanitoba.ca | shall at least be natural and agreeable. David Hume (1739) ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 Jul 1995 07:26:21 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Mike Quimby Subject: ABJ address? Greetings all. Does anyone have the address or phone # of the American Bee Journal handy? I am in the middle of moving and all my old issues are packed somewhere in a box I cannot locate, but I need to let the magazine know I have changed mailing address. Thanks in advance! Mike Quimby m.quimby@lilly.com From: QUIMBY MICHAEL E (MCVAX0::RK81239) To: VMS MAIL ADDRESSEE (IN::"BEE-L@UACSC2.albany.edu") ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 Jul 1995 15:24:01 +0200 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Josef A. Stark" Subject: Re: ABJ address? >Greetings all. Does anyone have the address or phone # >of the American Bee Journal handy? I am in the middle of >moving and all my old issues are packed somewhere in a box >I cannot locate, but I need to let the magazine know I have >changed mailing address. Thanks in advance! >Mike Quimby >m.quimby@lilly.com > >From: QUIMBY MICHAEL E (MCVAX0::RK81239) > >To: VMS MAIL ADDRESSEE (IN::"BEE-L@UACSC2.albany.edu") American Bee Journal, 51s. 2nd St., Hamilton, IL 62341. (217)847-3324. Fax (217)847-3660. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 Jul 1995 07:24:10 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Subject: Re: Bee Questions Comments: To: Ray Griffin In-Reply-To: On Sun, 23 Jul 1995, Ray Griffin wrote: > Dear Allen, > I just discovered the BEE-L log and there were some very interesting > things going on there. I'm also new to the internet and couldn't figure > out how to post a question on the BEE-L so I'm writing to you > via Email. Okay. I assume you were reading my pages on the web , There is a bit about subscribing to bee-l. Maybe I should have mentioned there that once you are subscribed, you address any mail you want to go to the list to bee-l@uacsc2.albany.edu ; it is then posted to the 500 or so subscribers. Since your question is one that I am sure many encounter, I am going to forward it to the list with my reply and I am sure some of the memebers will welcome you by private email, and others may wish to add to my comments. > I am a one-hive backyard city beekeeper and about 5 years > ago during heavy rains (in "sunny" Southern California) my hive died. > I just cleared out most of the wax moths and put the empty hive bodies > on the roof and forgot about them. Well, about 2 months ago a swarm > decided to take up residency in my abandoned hives and I thought > I would take up beekeeping again. I got new hive bodies, but the queen > was laying mostly drones. About 4 weeks ago I noticed 2 different > queen cells and I thought with all the drones around I would surely > have a young fertile queen to begin a vigorous hive. However,it has > been over 2 weeks since the queen cells hatched (if that's the word > for it) and I still haven't seen any eggs being layed and I am unable to > find the queen. Now there are no new larvae. I have about 3 frames > of stored honey and many workers are foraging and bringing in pollen > to the hive, although many workers are now beginning to just eat the > existing stored honey and not go foraging. If I don't get a fertile queen > in there all bees will be dead in a few more weeks. I just ordered a > queen from Walter Kelley in Kentucky and I have several questions. Two weeks for new queens to get going after 'emerging' is not unusual -especially if the weather is poor, but if it is much longer your chances of having a good queen are poor. > 1. Is it possible that when the two queens emerged from their cells > that they killed each other? Yes. > 2. How about if one killed the other but didn't get back from the > maiden flight? It happens. > 3. Is it possible that the pupa in the queen cell was not a female > because the old queen seemed to be infertile and was laying nothing > but drones? Yes, but then they would not emerge - I wouldn't think - at least they wouldn't emerge nornmally with a nice neat hole in the end. But I'm not sure, having never paid attention to this - does anyone else know the answer to this? > 4. When my new queen arrives from Kentucky, do I have to introduce > her in any special way in order that the existing bees will accept her? It is hard to introduce a queen to a drone layer. I'll let others try to answer this. > 5. What is an Apistan Queen Tab? Kelly's catalogue says all queens > will be shipped with apistan strips and tabs. Apistan is a pesticide that is faily specific to the varroa mites which are now widespread in the USA and which destroy hives in fairly short time unless treated. The tab ensures that no varroa travel with the queen. > Sorry to take up your time with my ramblings but I would like to know > more about beekeeping. Thanks for any help or suggestions. > Cheers > Ray Hope you can figure how to subscribe and to send questions to the list. If not write again. Allen W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper VE6CFK Rural Route One Swalwell Alberta Canada T0M 1Y0 Email: dicka@cuug.ab.ca or allend@internode.net Futures, Art & Honey:http://www.cuug.ab.ca:8001/~dicka ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 Jul 1995 09:34:52 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Kelley Rosenlund Subject: Cannadian Ass. of Prof. Apiculturists Does anyone have the address/phone number of the Canadian Association of Professional Apiculturists? God Bless, Kelley Rosenlund (rosenlk@freenet.ufl.edu) Gainesville, Florida, U.S.A. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 Jul 1995 16:28:29 GMT Reply-To: Gordon@apis.demon.co.uk Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Gordon Scott Subject: Re: Bees in cavity wall > > One book I read explained that not all stores are consumed, but once the > original colony is exhausted you can bring in a non-swarmy colony , open up > the escape and let that colony rob out the remaining stores. > Hi, Remember the risk here of picking up diseases! Regards, -- Gordon Scott Gordon@apis.demon.co.uk 100332,3310 on CompuServe Newsletter Beekeeper@apis.demon.co.uk ditto Beekeeper, Kendo Sandan, sometime sailor. Basingstoke, Hampshire, RG22 5HP, UK ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 Jul 1995 09:54:00 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Paul van Westendorp 576-5600 Fax: 576-5652" Subject: Re: Cannadian Ass. of Prof. Apiculturists Can. Association of Professional Apiculturtists (CAPA) can be contacted through Dr. Mark Winston, Dr. Cynthia Scott-Dupree or myself. Dr. M.L. Winston (President) winston@sfu.ca Simon Fraser University Burnaby, B.C. Canada Dr. C. Scott-Dupree csdupree@evbhort.uoguelph.ca (Vice- President) U. of Guelph Guelph, Ontario Canada P. van Westendorp pvanwesten@galaxy.gov.bc.ca (Secreatry-Treasurer) BC Min. of Agriculture Surrey, B.C. Canada ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 20 Jul 1995 15:01:00 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Kerry Clark 784-2225 fax (604) 784 2299" Subject: formic directions The MSDS won't tell you anything about bee hive use of formic. When a label for a pest control product (including formic) is approved, the MSDS as well as a lot of other information is integrated and presented in a way that is specific for the proposed use (against mites, in this case). Below is the approved Canadian label for formic acid. I hesitated to distribute it, but it's no secret. This label addresses the specific requirements of Canadian pesticide registration laws. To me it seems over-precationary in places, but that's the major orientation of these labels. After 2 years of experience with it, 2 situations have emerged that may warrant added precaution: One is to NOT apply formic acid while it has been heated by sitting in the sun. The resulting shock treatment to colonies, from the faster evaporation of the warmed, volatile acid, is currently the best explanation I can give, for the rare cases of up to 30 % of colonies in one yard, either behaving as if they don't have a queen for a few days, or actually killing the queen. The second would be a precaution to avoid applying the acid directly to bees sitting on the bottom board. Occasionally a beekeeper has removed supers, squeezing the bees into 1 1/2 or 2 brood boxes, then treated (as directed) on the bottom board, not noticing that the board was covered by bees an inch or so back of the entrance. A few thousand bees can be killed this way, and I would expect the treatment would be less effective, since the wetted bees stagger out the entrance, reducing the amount acting on mites. The label covers these situations as "slightly increased bee mortality or queen rejection, especially at temperature above 30 oC", but in practice it has been almost always unnoticeably small, with a few reports of queen losses, up to 30 %, or the fall bee drenchings. I advise beekeepers to try out their chosen detailed method, on a few colonies rather than committing their whole operation. That in itself would have avoided most of the problems. You'll have to use some imagination with this label, since the formatting and fonts etc are altered. The label also does not specify the prolonged or continuous-release methods that are in development, to reduce labour and avoid the hive shock problems. (1993 Canada Pest Control Products Act label) FORMIC ACID For treatment of honey bees infested with Varroa or tracheal mites For the detection of Varroa mites in honey bee colonies COMMERCIAL DANGER - CORROSIVE TO SKIN AND EYES ...Supplier's address ... READ THE LABEL BEFORE USING KEEP OUT OF REACH OF CHILDREN GUARANTEE: Formic Acid: 65% (in water) NET CONTENTS:_______ Precautions: Corrosive to eyes and skin by direct contact or by exposure to vapours. Harmful or fatal if swallowed. Potential skin sensitizer. Do not get in eyes or on skin or clothing. Do not breathe vapours. Wear goggles or face shield, chemically-resistant gloves, apron and boots when handling liquid formic acid. Work outdoors, and always stand upwind of the use location. If a strong vinegar odour is encountered, area should be evacuated until the vapours have dissipated. When applying, do not eat, drink or smoke. Wash skin thoroughly with soap and water after handling. Remove contaminated clothing immediately if contaminated by splash or spill. Store and wash contaminated clothing separately from household laundry. To prevent accidental exposure, post appropriate signs to prevent opening of treated hives within 24 hours of application. Formic acid will disturb colony activities and may result, within 1 day of application, in slightly increased bee mortality or queen rejection, especially when applied at outdoor temperatures above 30oC. Time of Application: Do not use when honey supers are in place, to prevent contamination of marketable honey by unwanted residues. Use when outside temperatures are 10oC to 30oC and leave hive entrances fully open. In spring, treatment must be discontinued at least 2 weeks before the anticipated honey flow. Better results against Varroa may be obtained from fall treatment, after the honey crop has been removed, and when little or no brood is present in the hive. Directions for Use: For two-story colonies (bees covering 8 to 20 Langstroth frames or equivalent): Tracheal mite control: Apply 30 to 40 ml of 65 % formic acid onto the bottom board or onto absorbent paper (three 15 cm square napkins or paper towels) on the bottom board or on the hive top-bars. Re-apply at 5 to 7 day intervals, for a total of 3 treatments. The paper pad remaining after the first treatment can be used again for subsequent treatments, or replaced with another pad. Varroa mite control: Apply 30 to 40 ml of 65 % formic acid onto the bottom board or onto absorbent paper placed on the bottom board. Re-apply at 1 to 4 day intervals, for a total of 3 to 6 treatments. For control of both tracheal and Varroa mites: Apply 30 to 40 ml of 65 % formic acid onto the bottom board or onto absorbent paper placed on the bottom board. Re-apply at 4 day intervals, for a total of 4 to 6 treatments. Varroa mite detection: Place a sticky paper covered by a 3x3 mm mesh screen on the bottom board, then apply 40 ml of 65 % formic acid to an absorbent paper placed on the screen or on the hive top bars. Check the sticky surface for fallen mites after 24 hours, and again after 3 days, when it can be removed. For one-story colonies (bees covering 4 to 10 Langstroth frames or equivalent): Apply half the amounts indicated above, using the same method and timing. First Aid: IF ON SKIN: Remove contaminated clothing immediately. Wash affected area with soap or mild detergent and large amounts of water. If chemical burn develops, cover area with a sterile, dry dressing, bandage securely and contact a physician immediately. IF IN EYES: Wash eyes immediately with large amounts of water. Cover with sterile bandages. Contact a physician immediately. IF INGESTED: Do not induce vomiting. Drink large quantities of water or milk. If vomiting occurs, administer fluids repeatedly. Never induce vomiting or give anything by mouth to an unconscious person. Contact a physician or Poison Control Center immediately. Take container or product name with you to the hospital emergency department or physician. IF INHALED: Remove person to a safe, uncontaminated area. If breathing has stopped, clear airway and start artificial respiration. Never give anything by mouth to an unconscious person. Get immediate medical attention. Take container or product name with you to the hospital emergency department or physician. Storage: Store in original container, in a cool, dry, well-ventilated area. Use caution when opening the container, especially in warm weather, as pressure may have built up. Avoid heat, sparks and open flames. Store away from sulphuric acid and oxidizing materials. Formic acid vapors are heavier than air, and may collect in low places, or flow to an ignition source and flash back. Vapour concentrations of 18 to 57 % in air are combustible, and pose a moderate fire hazard. Disposal: Absorbent pads containing formic acid should be disposed of according to provincial instructions. For information on the disposal of unused, unwanted or damaged product and the cleanup of spills, contact the regional office of Environmental Protection, Environment Canada. Follow provincial instructions for any required cleaning of the formic acid container prior to its disposal. Dispose of the container in accordance with provincial requirements. Notice to User: This control product is to be used only in accordance with the directions on this label. It is an offense under the Pest Control Products Act to use a control product under unsafe conditions. (end) ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 Jul 1995 11:59:00 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Kerry Clark 784-2225 fax (604) 784 2299" Subject: Wrong formic label Sorry Folks I looked at my paper copy of the formic label I just distributed. It was an early draft. The approved label is different, especially in the directions. I'll get a good copy to replace. Kerry Clark, Apiculture Specialist B.C. Ministry of Agriculture 1201 103 Ave Dawson Creek B.C. V1G 4J2 CANADA Tel (604) 784-2225 fax (604) 784-2299 INTERNET KCLARK@GALAXY.GOV.BC.CA ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 Jul 1995 12:25:00 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Kerry Clark 784-2225 fax (604) 784 2299" Subject: Canadian formic label Below is the wording of the approved label for use of formic acid for bee mites in Canada. This label addresses the specific requirements of Canadian pesticide registration laws. To me it seems over-precationary in places, but that's the major orientation of these labels. After 2 years of experience with it, 2 situations have emerged that may warrant added precaution: One is to NOT apply formic acid while it has been heated by sitting in the sun. The resulting shock treatment to colonies, from the faster evaporation of the warmed, volatile acid, is currently the best explanation I can give, for the rare cases of up to 30 % of colonies in one yard, either behaving as if they don't have a queen for a few days, or actually killing the queen. The second would be a precaution to avoid applying the acid directly to bees sitting on the bottom board. Occasionally a beekeeper has removed supers, squeezing the bees into 1 1/2 or 2 brood boxes, then treated (as directed) on the bottom board, not noticing that the board was covered by bees an inch or so back of the entrance. A few thousand bees can be killed this way, and I would expect the treatment would be less effective, since the wetted bees stagger out the entrance, reducing the amount acting on mites. The label addresses the above situations as "slightly increased bee mortality or queen rejection, especially at temperature above 30 oC", but in practice it has been almost always unnoticeably small, with a few reports of queen losses, up to 30 %, or the fall bee drenchings. I advise beekeepers to try out their chosen detailed method, on a few colonies rather than committing their whole operation. That in itself would have avoided most of the problems. You'll have to use some imagination with this label, since the formatting and fonts etc are altered. The label also does not specify the prolonged or continuous-release methods that are in development, to reduce labour and avoid the hive shock problems. Kerry Clark, Apiculture Specialist B.C. Ministry of Agriculture 1201 103 Ave Dawson Creek B.C. V1G 4J2 CANADA Tel (604) 784-2225 fax (604) 784-2299 INTERNET KCLARK@GALAXY.GOV.BC.CA FORMIC ACID For treatment of honey bees infested with Varroa or tracheal mites For detection of Varroa mites in honey bee colonies COMMERCIAL DANGER - CORROSIVE TO SKIN AND EYES (Symbol: Octagon with skeleton-hand in beaker) Scheduled under the authority of the Pest Control Products Act READ THE LABEL BEFORE USING KEEP OUT OF REACH OF CHILDREN GUARANTEE: Formic Acid: 65% (in water) ...Supplier's postal address ... NET CONTENTS:________ Precautions: KEEP OUT OF REACH OF CHILDREN. Corrosive to eyes and skin by direct contact or by exposure to vapors. Harmful or fatal if swallowed. Potential skin sensitizer. Do not get in eyes or on skin or clothing. Do not breathe vapors. Wear goggles or face shield, chemically-resistant gloves, apron and boots when handling liquid formic acid. Work outdoors, and always stand upwind of the use location. If a strong vinegar odor is encountered, area should be evacuated until the vapors have dissipated. When applying, do not eat, drink or smoke. Wash skin thoroughly with soap and water after handling. Remove contaminated clothing immediately if contaminated by splash or spill. Store and wash contaminated clothing separately from household laundry. To prevent accidental exposure, post appropriate signs to prevent opening of treated hives within 24 hours of application. Do not contaminate water supply, ponds, lakes or streams with this product. Formic acid will disturb colony activities and may, within one day of application, result in queen rejection or a slight increase in bee mortality, especially at temperatures above 30oC. Time of Application: Do not use when honey supers are in place, to prevent contamination of marketable honey or wax by unwanted residues. Use when outside temperatures are 10oC to 30oC and leave hive entrances fully open. In spring, treatment must be discontinued at least 2 weeks before the anticipated honey flow. Treatment may be applied in fall after the honey crop has been removed. Directions for Use: For two-story colonies (bees covering 8 to 20 full-size Langstroth frames or equivalent): For control of tracheal mites: Apply 30 to 40 ml of 65 % formic acid onto the bottom board or onto absorbent paper (three 15 cm square napkins or paper towels) placed on the bottom board or on the hive top-bars. Re-apply at 5 to 7 day intervals, for a total of three treatments. The absorbent paper pad remaining after the first treatment can be used again for subsequent treatments, or it can be replaced with another pad. For control of Varroa mites: Apply 30 to 40 ml of 65 % formic acid onto the bottom board or onto absorbent paper placed on the bottom board or hive top bars (top bar applications may be less effective for Varroa). Re-apply at 1 to 4 day intervals, for a total of three to six treatments. For control of both tracheal and Varroa mites: Apply 30 to 40 ml of 65 % formic acid onto the bottom board or onto absorbent paper placed on the bottom board or hive top bars (top bar applications may be less effective for Varroa). Re-apply at 4 day intervals, for a total of four to six treatments. For detection of Varroa mites: Place a sticky white paper covered by a 3x3 mm mesh screen on the bottom board. Apply 40 ml of 65 % formic acid to an absorbent paper placed on the screen or on the hive top bars. Check the sticky surface for fallen mites after 24 hours, and again after 3 days, when it can be removed. For one-story colonies (bees covering 4 to 10 full-size Langstroth frames or equivalent): Apply half the amounts indicated above, using the same method and timing. First Aid: IF ON SKIN: Remove contaminated clothing immediately. Wash affected area with soap or mild detergent and large amounts of water. If chemical burn develops, cover area with a sterile, dry dressing, bandage securely and contact a physician immediately. IF IN EYES: Wash eyes immediately with large amounts of water. Cover with sterile bandages. Contact a physician immediately. IF INGESTED: Do not induce vomiting. Drink large quantities of water or milk. If vomiting occurs, administer fluids repeatedly. Never give anything by mouth to an unconscious person. Contact a physician or Poison Control Center immediately. Take container or product name with you to the hospital emergency department or physician. IF INHALED: Remove person to a safe, uncontaminated area. If breathing has stopped, clear airway and start artificial respiration. Never give anything by mouth to an unconscious person. Get immediate medical attention. Take container or product name with you to the hospital emergency department or physician. Storage: Store in original container, in a cool, dry, well-ventilated area. Use caution when opening the container, especially in warm weather, as pressure may have built up. Avoid heat, sparks and open flames. Store away from sulphuric acid and oxidizing materials. Formic acid vapors are heavier than air, and may collect in low places, or flow to an ignition source and flash back. Disposal: Absorbent pads containing formic acid should be disposed of according to provincial instructions. For information on the disposal of unused, unwanted or damaged product and the cleanup of spills, contact the regional office of Environmental Protection, Environment Canada. Follow provincial instructions for any required cleaning of the formic acid container prior to its disposal. Dispose of the container in accordance with provincial requirements. Notice to User: This control product is to be used only in accordance with the directions on this label. It is an offense under the Pest Control Products Act to use a control product under unsafe conditions. (end) ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 Jul 1995 17:08:37 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Charles Knecht Subject: lindane & benzyl benzoate Dear bee list, I have been but a lowly net-lurker, and don't even raise bees, but I thought I might suggest a couple chemicals for mites. In our fruit-fly laboratory we sometimes get mite infestations. I have seen at least two species, and others may also attack the flies. Doubtless these are not verroa, but they are mites anyway. 1. Lindane-treated paper will kill mites that walk accross it. Lindane is 123456-hexachlorocyclohexane, or C6H6Cl6. 2. benzyl-benzoate (one part in 5 parts isopropanol) can be used to treat work surfaces. formula C14H12O2. Maybe someone would be interested in this information. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 Jul 1995 20:45:25 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "La Reine de la Cite' des Phoques (Liz Day)" Subject: stings vs mosquito bites (was Allergy) This is slightly off-topic) When a wasp stings me, it hurts like crazy, swells a bit, then goes numb and in a day is gone. When a mosquito bites me, it itches continuously for several days at least - horrible! Is this reaction the norm?? Liz Day LDAY@indy.net Indianapolis, Indiana, central USA ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 Jul 1995 21:03:07 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "La Reine de la Cite' des Phoques (Liz Day)" Subject: Re: lindane & benzyl benzoate EEEK. Isn't Lindane something that persists for some time? Not something one wants in honey? Liz Day LDAY@indy.net Indianapolis, Indiana, central USA ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 25 Jul 1995 00:03:37 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Dave D. Cawley, a De Leon Socialist" Subject: Re: lindane & benzyl benzoate > From: Charles Knecht > In our fruit-fly laboratory we sometimes get mite infestations. I have seen > at least two species, and others may also attack the flies. Doubtless these > are not verroa, but they are mites anyway. > > 1. Lindane-treated paper will kill mites that walk accross it. Lindane is > 123456-hexachlorocyclohexane, or C6H6Cl6. What would the effect on the bees be? Or maybe under a screen that bees can't get thru and then use Apistan to knock them off and down onto the paper? ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Dave D. Cawley | The information on the Internet is only University Of Scranton | interesting to people who are interested Scranton, Pennsylvania | in it. dave@scranton.com | -Scranton Tomorrow Spokeswoman ddc1@jaguar.uofs.edu | refusing invitation to Internet Cafe's opening ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 25 Jul 1995 00:20:54 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Dave D. Cawley, a De Leon Socialist" Subject: Re: stings vs mosquito bites (was Allergy) > From: "La Reine de la Cite' des Phoques (Liz Day)" > When a wasp stings me, it hurts like crazy, swells a bit, then goes numb > and in a day is gone. When a mosquito bites me, it itches continuously > for several days at least - horrible! Is this reaction the norm?? GOD NO! From what you're describing from the mosquito bite, you're suffering from the early stages of anphalactic shock and should *RUSH* to the nearest hospital *ANYTIME* you get bit by a mosquito! Remember, better prophalactic, than anphalactic! 8-} ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Dave D. Cawley | The information on the Internet is only University Of Scranton | interesting to people who are interested Scranton, Pennsylvania | in it. dave@scranton.com | -Scranton Tomorrow Spokeswoman ddc1@jaguar.uofs.edu | refusing invitation to Internet Cafe's opening ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 Jul 1995 18:15:34 -1000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Thomas W. Culliney -- State of Hawaii" Subject: Re: lindane & benzyl benzoate In-Reply-To: <01HT9ML27P7O9AMXGN@JAGUAR.UOFS.EDU> On Tue, 25 Jul 1995, Dave D. Cawley, a De Leon Socialist wrote: > > From: Charles Knecht > > In our fruit-fly laboratory we sometimes get mite infestations. I have seen > > at least two species, and others may also attack the flies. Doubtless these > > are not verroa, but they are mites anyway. > > > > 1. Lindane-treated paper will kill mites that walk accross it. Lindane is > > 123456-hexachlorocyclohexane, or C6H6Cl6. > > What would the effect on the bees be? Or maybe under a screen that > bees can't get thru and then use Apistan to knock them off and down onto the > paper? > > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Dave D. Cawley | The information on the Internet is only > University Of Scranton | interesting to people who are interested > Scranton, Pennsylvania | in it. > dave@scranton.com | -Scranton Tomorrow Spokeswoman > ddc1@jaguar.uofs.edu | refusing invitation to Internet Cafe's opening > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > A better question might be: how many varroa mites are likely to be walking on the bottom board and, therefore, contact the pesticide? The mites should more likely be found on bees and comb. Tom ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 25 Jul 1995 00:31:08 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Dave D. Cawley, a De Leon Socialist" Subject: Re: lindane & benzyl benzoate > From: "Thomas W. Culliney -- State of Hawaii" WOW! Are you the whole state? 8-} > A better question might be: how many varroa mites are likely to be > walking on the bottom board and, therefore, contact the pesticide? The > mites should more likely be found on bees and comb. I haven't had any experience with it, yet, but doesn't Apistan "knock" the mites off the bees that come in contact with it and people were using sticky pads under screens to check infestation levels? ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Dave D. Cawley | The information on the Internet is only University Of Scranton | interesting to people who are interested Scranton, Pennsylvania | in it. dave@scranton.com | -Scranton Tomorrow Spokeswoman ddc1@jaguar.uofs.edu | refusing invitation to Internet Cafe's opening ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 25 Jul 1995 00:57:09 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Brian K. Cooley" Subject: Re: stings vs mosquito bites (was Allergy) In-Reply-To: <199507250145.UAA29128@indy3.indy.net> Allergies, which are essentially defects in the imune system, can exhibit themselves in a broad manner. I have seen mosquito bites swell up to the size of a silver dollar on people that have incredibly poor immune systems. However, they were never effected by apis stings. If benedryl helps then it is an allergic reaction. Brian K. Cooley Environmental Consulting & Biological Services 1899 El Centro Drive Columbia, Missouri 65201 email: bcooley@mail.coin.missouri.edu phone: 314-474-3941 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 25 Jul 1995 10:56:58 GMT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Steve Pearce Subject: Re: laying worker removal Mon 24th July Allen Dick wrote:- amongst many other things... "When my new queen arrives from Kentucky, do I have to introduce > her in any special way in order that the existing bees will accept her? It is hard to introduce a queen to a drone layer. I'll let others try to answer this." I heard of a neat way of removing laying workers from a hive from the east of Scotland beekeepers association. I have not tried this, but I would be interested to know if anyone else out there has ever tried this approach The method relies on the fact thet the laying workers are resident in the hive and do not forage. If you wait until mid evening and take the frames one by one to about 40 yards from the hive and shake the bees off onto the ground, the field bees will fly back to the hive. The laying workers however will not get back. You can then introduce a new queen in the usual way. Steve Pearce Perthshire Scotland ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 25 Jul 1995 12:01:44 +0000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Rees, Simon" Subject: A swarm in July is worth 25 quid Hi, A Swarm in May is worth a load of hay. A Swarm in June is worth a silver spoon. A Swarm in July isn't worth a fly. I believe that this poem is an old English one and aimed to be true rather to our climate than necessarily to parts of the World with different climates! It dates, too, from pre-Langsthroth days when a colony would have to be pretty well destroyed to get at the honey at the end of the year - a colony providing no honey would not be worth the skep you'd house it in! My own (first) nucleus (five frames), installed in Twickenham, England four weeks ago tomorrow (Weds. 28th. June) should be big enough to survive the winter, but that's about it - I'll get no honey from it - so the poem's not so far off the mark for me. For the record, it cost me twenty-five pounds sterling. Mind, I'd much rather have it than a fly. Best wishes Simon Rees (the bees are doing fine...) simon.rees@mcl.co.uk ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 25 Jul 1995 07:33:11 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Aaron Morris Subject: Queen rearing and/or replacement Comments: To: bee-l@ALBANY.BITNET >> 3. Is it possible that the pupa in the queen cell was not a female >> because the old queen seemed to be infertile and was laying nothing >> but drones? > >Yes, but then they would not emerge - I wouldn't think - at least they >wouldn't emerge normally with a nice neat hole in the end. But I'm not >sure, having never paid attention to this - does anyone else know the >answer to this? I believe the answer is no, although I don't have sources to quote. I don't think the bees will continue to feed a drone pupa royal jelly, hence the "male queen" won't go full term. I think the source of this opinion came from the article a few issues back in ABJ about the ideal conditions for a hive to rear new queens. >> 4. When my new queen arrives from Kentucky, do I have to introduce >> her in any special way in order that the existing bees will accept her? > >It is hard to introduce a queen to a drone layer. I'll let others try to >answer this. Agreed. The only hopes for introducing a new queen to a drone laying hive is to first introduce the queen to a nuc, and if successful, set the nuc with the accepted queen up on the site of the original hive and shake all the bees from the drone layer into the grass a few meters away. This information was gleaned from the conversations on this list. The real problem here is introducing a new queen to a hive containing mostly old bees. You can't teach old bees new queens! Queens are more readily accepted by younger bees. Hopefully the premise that originally prompted this question is in error. It's good, I guess, to have the new queen on her way (perhaps she has arrived by now?), but I might wait a few days more to make absolutely sure that the hive was not successful in rearing its own new queen. As Allen stated, two weeks for a newly emerged queen to start laying is not out of the reasonable realm. Please post an update to let us know how you make out! Aaron Morris - I think, therefore I bee! ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 25 Jul 1995 08:29:26 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: John Day Subject: Re: Queen rearing and/or replacement i've read several times about using a sheet of newspaper to combine colonies together. you stack a super on top of the one to be combined with, seperating them with a sheet of newspaper. the bees chew thru this soon, and the new queen's phermones are integrated slowly, allowing acceptance. why can't this technique be used to introduce a new queen? i know old bees are cantankerous, but a new queen with her workers should be accepted this way. correct? john ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 25 Jul 1995 11:39:01 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Kelley Rosenlund Subject: Queen Rearing books Can anyone recommend a good book or two for queen rearing? God Bless, Kelley Rosenlund (rosenlk@freenet.ufl.edu) Gainesville, Florida, U.S.A. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 25 Jul 1995 07:17:47 -1000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Thomas W. Culliney -- State of Hawaii" Subject: Re: stings vs mosquito bites (was Allergy) In-Reply-To: On Tue, 25 Jul 1995, Brian K. Cooley wrote: > Allergies, which are essentially defects in the imune system, can exhibit > themselves in a broad manner. I have seen mosquito bites swell up to the > size of a silver dollar on people that have incredibly poor immune > systems. However, they were never effected by apis stings. If benedryl > helps then it is an allergic reaction. > > Brian K. Cooley > Environmental Consulting & Biological Services > 1899 El Centro Drive > Columbia, Missouri 65201 > email: bcooley@mail.coin.missouri.edu > phone: 314-474-3941 > It was my understanding that allergies resulted from an immune system overreacting to an allergen, not from a weak immune system failing to react. Any immunologists out there who could clarify the situation? Tom ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 25 Jul 1995 18:46:05 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: JOHN IANNUZZI Subject: Re: Canadian formic label > Below is the wording of the approved label for use of formic acid for > bee mites in Canada. This label addresses the specific requirements of > Canadian pesticide registration laws. To me it seems over-precationary > in places, but that's the major orientation of these labels. > After 2 years of experience with it, 2 situations have emerged > that may warrant added precaution: > One is to NOT apply formic acid while it has been heated by sitting in > the sun. The resulting shock treatment to colonies, from the faster > evaporation of the warmed, volatile acid, is currently the best > explanation I can give, for the rare cases of up to 30 % of colonies in > one yard, either behaving as if they don't have a queen for a few days, > or actually killing the queen. > The second would be a precaution to avoid applying the acid directly to > bees sitting on the bottom board. Occasionally a beekeeper has removed > supers, squeezing the bees into 1 1/2 or 2 brood boxes, then treated (as > directed) on the bottom board, not noticing that the board was covered > by bees an inch or so back of the entrance. A few thousand bees can be > killed this way, and I would expect the treatment would be less > effective, since the wetted bees stagger out the entrance, reducing the > amount acting on mites. > The label addresses the above situations as "slightly increased bee > mortality or queen rejection, especially at temperature above 30 oC", > but in practice it has been almost always unnoticeably small, with a few > reports of queen losses, up to 30 %, or the fall bee drenchings. I > advise beekeepers to try out their chosen detailed method, on a few > colonies rather than committing their whole operation. That in itself > would have avoided most of the problems. > You'll have to use some imagination with this label, since the > formatting and fonts etc are altered. > > The label also does not specify the prolonged or continuous-release > methods that are in development, to reduce labour and avoid the hive > shock problems. > > > Kerry Clark, Apiculture Specialist > B.C. Ministry of Agriculture > 1201 103 Ave > Dawson Creek B.C. > V1G 4J2 CANADA Tel (604) 784-2225 fax (604) 784-2299 > INTERNET KCLARK@GALAXY.GOV.BC.CA > > > > > FORMIC ACID > For treatment of honey bees infested with Varroa or tracheal mites > For detection of Varroa mites in honey bee colonies > > COMMERCIAL > > DANGER - CORROSIVE TO SKIN AND EYES > > (Symbol: Octagon with skeleton-hand in beaker) > Scheduled under the authority of the Pest Control Products Act > > READ THE LABEL BEFORE USING > > KEEP OUT OF REACH OF CHILDREN > GUARANTEE: Formic Acid: 65% (in water) > ...Supplier's postal address ... > NET CONTENTS:________ > > Precautions: > KEEP OUT OF REACH OF CHILDREN. > Corrosive to eyes and skin by direct contact or by exposure to vapors. > Harmful or fatal if swallowed. Potential skin sensitizer. Do not get in > eyes or on skin or clothing. Do not breathe vapors. Wear goggles or face > shield, chemically-resistant gloves, apron and boots when handling > liquid formic acid. Work outdoors, and always stand upwind of the use > location. If a strong vinegar odor is encountered, area should be > evacuated until the vapors have dissipated. When applying, do not eat, > drink or smoke. Wash skin thoroughly with soap and water after > handling. Remove contaminated clothing immediately if contaminated by > splash or spill. Store and wash contaminated clothing separately from > household laundry. To prevent accidental exposure, post appropriate > signs to prevent opening of treated hives within 24 hours of > application. Do not contaminate water supply, ponds, lakes or streams > with this product. Formic acid will disturb colony activities and may, > within one day of application, result in queen rejection or a slight > increase in bee mortality, especially at temperatures above 30oC. > > Time of Application: Do not use when honey supers are in place, to > prevent contamination of marketable honey or wax by unwanted residues. > Use when outside temperatures are 10oC to 30oC and leave hive entrances > fully open. In spring, treatment must be discontinued at least 2 weeks > before the anticipated honey flow. Treatment may be applied in fall > after the honey crop has been removed. > Directions for Use: > > For two-story colonies (bees covering 8 to 20 full-size Langstroth > frames or equivalent): > For control of tracheal mites: Apply 30 to 40 ml of 65 % formic acid > onto the bottom board or onto absorbent paper (three 15 cm square > napkins or paper towels) placed on the bottom board or on the hive > top-bars. Re-apply at 5 to 7 day intervals, for a total of three > treatments. The absorbent paper pad remaining after the first treatment > can be used again for subsequent treatments, or it can be replaced with > another pad. > > For control of Varroa mites: Apply 30 to 40 ml of 65 % formic acid onto > the bottom board or onto absorbent paper placed on the bottom board or > hive top bars (top bar applications may be less effective for Varroa). > Re-apply at 1 to 4 day intervals, for a total of three to six > treatments. > > For control of both tracheal and Varroa mites: Apply 30 to 40 ml of 65 % > formic acid onto the bottom board or onto absorbent paper placed on the > bottom board or hive top bars (top bar applications may be less > effective for Varroa). > Re-apply at 4 day intervals, for a total of four to six treatments. > > For detection of Varroa mites: Place a sticky white paper covered by a > 3x3 mm mesh screen on the bottom board. Apply 40 ml of 65 % formic acid > to an absorbent paper placed on the screen or on the hive top bars. > Check the sticky surface for fallen mites after 24 hours, and again > after 3 days, when it can be removed. > > For one-story colonies (bees covering 4 to 10 full-size Langstroth > frames or equivalent): > Apply half the amounts indicated above, using the same method and > timing. > > First Aid: > IF ON SKIN: Remove contaminated clothing immediately. Wash affected area > with soap or mild detergent and large amounts of water. If chemical burn > develops, cover area with a sterile, dry dressing, bandage securely and > contact a physician immediately. > IF IN EYES: Wash eyes immediately with large amounts of water. Cover > with sterile bandages. Contact a physician immediately. > IF INGESTED: Do not induce vomiting. Drink large quantities of water or > milk. If vomiting occurs, administer fluids repeatedly. Never give > anything by mouth to an unconscious person. Contact a physician or > Poison Control Center immediately. Take container or product name with > you to the hospital emergency department or physician. > IF INHALED: Remove person to a safe, uncontaminated area. If breathing > has stopped, clear airway and start artificial respiration. Never give > anything by mouth to an unconscious person. Get immediate medical > attention. Take container or product name with you to the hospital > emergency department or physician. > > Storage: Store in original container, in a cool, dry, well-ventilated > area. Use caution when opening the container, especially in warm > weather, as pressure may have built up. Avoid heat, sparks and open > flames. Store away from sulphuric acid and oxidizing materials. Formic > acid vapors are heavier than air, and may collect in low places, or flow > to an ignition source and flash back. > > Disposal: Absorbent pads containing formic acid should be disposed of > according to provincial instructions. For information on the disposal of > unused, unwanted or damaged product and the cleanup of spills, contact > the regional office of Environmental Protection, Environment Canada. > Follow provincial instructions for any required cleaning of the formic > acid container prior to its disposal. Dispose of the container in > accordance with provincial requirements. > > Notice to User: This control product is to be used only in accordance > with the directions on this label. It is an offense under the Pest > Control Products Act to use a control product under unsafe conditions. > > (end) > Dear Kerry, Thanks for taking the trouble tosend along some very informative data. Cheers from Maryland. Jack the B-man Ellicott City founded 1772 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 25 Jul 1995 17:28:48 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Brian K. Cooley" Subject: Re: stings vs mosquito bites (was Allergy) In-Reply-To: Brian K. Cooley Environmental Consulting & Biological Services 1899 El Centro Drive Columbia, Missouri 65201 email: bcooley@mail.coin.missouri.edu phone: 314-474-3941 > > It was my understanding that allergies resulted from an immune > system overreacting to an allergen, not from a weak immune system failing > to react. Any immunologists out there who could clarify the situation? > > Tom > Forgive me if I implied that it was caused from a weak immune system failing. You are correct in stating that it is an over reaction to an allergen. To be more specific your body will actually interpret pollen or small food particles, etc. as a pathogen and attack it which is part of your immune response. However, people that tend to have weak immune systems, for some reason, tend to be copiously thick with allergies (of course there are always exceptions to the rule). There are people that cannot live within a few miles of a feed mill because they mix in whey with their feeds. Some people are simply allergic to milk. A very few will actually have terible reactions from being down wind of a feed mill because they will react with the ppm levels of whey in the air. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 25 Jul 1995 22:26:50 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Frederick Chase Subject: Need suggestions for pricing I am a hobbyist with a very few hives. Last year for the first time I tried comb honey production, using the Hogg half-comb system (each super contains 40 square plastic containers, each of which holds 12 oz.). My success last year led me to repeat this year, and again I have found the procedure simple and successful. Now, my problem is what to do with all these beautiful containers of honey in the comb. I do not sell honey; my immediate and wider family eat all they want, and I give away the balance. I want to donate some of these containers to a favorite local charity for them to sell, but since I have never sold any I have no idea what price to recommend that they set. Any suggestions? My location is southern New England, USA. Comb honey does not seem to be sold much in this area, so potential customers may never have eaten any. Fred Chase (FJChase@aol.com) ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 25 Jul 1995 23:20:55 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Brian Tassey Subject: Re: supering Mick, Go down into the lower 2nd box and see if you can exchange some foundation frames from the 3rd with drawn and filled honey frames from the 2nd. If the hive is doing well you should be able to pull at least the 2 outer frames on both sides. Don't go through the broodnest unless you need to (less manipulation is best). I'm assuming that the super is also a deep box. The bees don't work foundation above an excluder as freely as without one. The drawn frames will bring them up to work in the super more readily. Remember also that if all of the boxes are started as foundation that this is a bunch of work to get done. Be careful that they fill out the lower boxes with drawn and filled comb.If they seem to be running up the middle frames only, don't super anymore. You might end up with partially drawn brood boxes late in the season and will have to fill them out with frames from your super. It's better to force them to fill it out than you doing it for them. They know were to put everything the best. Hope this helps. Brian Tassey Kaykin@aol.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 25 Jul 1995 21:25:00 PDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: bill fernihough Subject: Re: laying worker removal >Mon 24th July Allen Dick wrote:- amongst many other things... > > >"When my new queen arrives from Kentucky, do I have to introduce >> her in any special way in order that the existing bees will accept >her? > >It is hard to introduce a queen to a drone layer. I'll let others try to >answer this." > > > >I heard of a neat way of removing laying workers from a hive from the >east of Scotland beekeepers association. I have not tried this, but I >would be interested to know if anyone else out there has ever tried this >approach > >The method relies on the fact thet the laying workers are resident in >the hive and do not forage. If you wait until mid evening and take the >frames one by one to about 40 yards from the hive and shake the bees off >onto the ground, the field bees will fly back to the hive. The laying >workers however will not get back. You can then introduce a new queen in >the usual way. > >Steve Pearce >Perthshire >Scotland I do this and it works. 40 yards isn't entirely necessary, but it works. bill fernihough HONEY i s sweeter then wine. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 25 Jul 1995 23:32:20 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Keith Murray Subject: Re: use of PVC pipe to extract honey In-Reply-To: On Sun, 23 Jul 1995, Michael Stoops wrote: > I think there is a difference between the white PVC pipe and the black > PVC pipe, the later being used for drainiage type situations (ie: land > drainage and waste water drainage). Anybody else have same thoughts? > We use the black ABS pipe only for waste. On the other hand, we call the honeywagon for a visit when that tank gets full. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Keith Murray * Don't worry about people stealing St.Mary's Academy * an idea. If it's original, you 550 Wellington cres. * will have to ram it down their Winnipeg, Manitoba * throats. -H. Aiken ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Jul 1995 07:43:31 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Aaron Morris Subject: Fair market value for comb honey Comments: To: bee-l@ALBANY.BITNET Fred Chase queried about the fair market value of hogg comb sections. I replied directly to Fred, but decided I should also post to the list. I'd be interested to hear what Allen Dick has to say about this and perhaps he can offer some hints about finding local markets for comb honey. Hi Fred! I am in a similar boat, only I've been managing my hives for Ross Round combs (after the initial investment, restocking the supers is much cheaper). The ABJ lists honey prices monthly. I don't have the latest issue in front of me and I don't have the figure for Hogg combs in my head, but the suggested retail price in the Northeast U.S. for round combs is between $1.75 and $3.50 (quite a wide range!). There is also a wide variation in price throughout the states. I recall that the Northeast price seemed higher than other areas (I'm not complaining!). I've been selling a dozen rounds for $25 ($2.08 per) to country stores and roadside stands. They retail them for $3 or $3.25. Sales have been slow though. Seems people prefer honey in a jar and that the combs usually sell to folks who remember them from days gone by. I would imagine that the Hogg combs should sell for a bit more, as they contain 12 oz vs 8 oz in a round section. Hope this is helpful. Aaron Morris - thinking there should be more demand for comb honey! ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Jul 1995 08:20:00 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: JOHN IANNUZZI Subject: Passing of John Lindner (fwd) Jack, here is the time of the services as I requested. Please pass to all that you know. ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Tue, 25 Jul 1995 22:45:28 -0400 From: Beefriend@aol.com To: worrell@cbl.umd.edu, Drone@aol.com, dbernard@nchgr.nih.gov Subject: Passing of John Lindner Ernie Miner called me this evening and informed me that John Lindner, former Maryland Apiary Inspector, passed away Monday night. His funeral will be on Thursday, 10 AM, in Cumberland, MD. Jerry, could you please forward this to anyone on your MSBA mailing list? Greg, we will need an article in the newsletter; check with Ernie after EAS. Dave, please pass this news to folks you meet at EAS who might have known Mr. Lindner. Thanks, David P.S. John was 78 and was permanently attached to oxygen tubes for the past several years but in cheerful spirits when I last saw him 23jul93 (93). 1962-1963 prexy of Md State Beekeepers Ass'n and upon his retirement as state apiary inspector in 1979 was described as "one of the greatest beekeepers the state of Maryland has ever known." Inventor of the grooved bottom board. No children but adopted dau. Survived by wife Alberta (188 N Centre St Cumberland MD USA) and two bros and seven sisters (four of whom are nuns). He was the oldest. Requiescat in pace. Along w/ George Abrams, another GIANT in Md. apiculture, was responsible for founding the Eastern Apicultural society in College Park (site of Univ of Md), 1955. R.I.P. John Iannuzzi/ 9772 Old Annapolis Rd/ Ellicott City MD 21042 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Jul 1995 08:24:45 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: JOHN IANNUZZI Subject: Re: Fair market value for comb honey > Fred Chase queried about the fair market value of > hogg comb sections. I replied directly to Fred, but decided I should > also post to the list. I'd be interested to hear what Allen Dick has > to say about this and perhaps he can offer some hints about finding > local markets for comb honey. > > Hi Fred! > > I am in a similar boat, only I've been managing my hives for Ross Round > combs (after the initial investment, restocking the supers is much > cheaper). The ABJ lists honey prices monthly. I don't have the latest > issue in front of me and I don't have the figure for Hogg combs in my > head, but the suggested retail price in the Northeast U.S. for round > combs is between $1.75 and $3.50 (quite a wide range!). There is also > a wide variation in price throughout the states. I recall that the > Northeast price seemed higher than other areas (I'm not complaining!). > I've been selling a dozen rounds for $25 ($2.08 per) to country stores > and roadside stands. They retail them for $3 or $3.25. Sales have been > slow though. Seems people prefer honey in a jar and that the combs > usually sell to folks who remember them from days gone by. > > I would imagine that the Hogg combs should sell for a bit more, as they > contain 12 oz vs 8 oz in a round section. Hope this is helpful. > > Aaron Morris - thinking there should be more demand for comb honey! > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Jul 1995 11:35:47 -0300 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Harvey Hyde Subject: Re: Passing of John Lindner In-Reply-To: <9507261220.AA21536@epfl2.epflbalto.org> > Inventor of the grooved bottom board. No children but adopted dau. What is a grooved bottom board? Harvey Hyde hhyde@peinet.pe.ca ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Jul 1995 06:01:19 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Subject: Introducing queen to a drone layer In-Reply-To: having given this matter some thought, I think the way I would choose would be this: Take a large cardboard box and shake all the bees into it, spraying them lightly with sugar syrup and shaking the box lightly from time to time. Then add the queen - direct release into the box - once the bees are demoralised and not flying or running. Then I would dump them immediately in front of the hive and let them run in with the queen This is assuming that I didn't have another hive to split and add the old bees from the drone layer to (after the queen is established in a split) in order to arrive to arrive at two colonies. Allen W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper VE6CFK Rural Route One Swalwell Alberta Canada T0M 1Y0 Email: dicka@cuug.ab.ca or allend@internode.net Futures, Art & Honey:http://www.cuug.ab.ca:8001/~dicka ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Jul 1995 12:47:41 AST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: NB*net - New Brunswick's Regional Network 1-800-561-4459 From: Beth Nixon Subject: Re: stings vs mosquito bites (was Aller On Tue, 25 Jul 1995 00:20:54 -0500, DDC1@JAGUAR.UOFS.EDU writes: > >> From: "La Reine de la Cite' des Phoques (Liz Day)" >> When a wasp stings me, it hurts like crazy, swells a bit, then goes numb >> and in a day is gone. When a mosquito bites me, it itches continuously >> for several days at least - horrible! Is this reaction the norm?? > > GOD NO! From what you're describing from the mosquito bite, you're >suffering from the early stages of anphalactic shock and should *RUSH* to >the nearest hospital *ANYTIME* you get bit by a mosquito! > Remember, better prophalactic, than anphalactic! 8-} > This is the very same reaction I have to mosquito bites , but I wouldn't think I was going in anphalactic shock. I've grown up with mosquitoes all around all my life, my Mum, my sister, and several friends have the same reactions. Often my bites itch for more than a week - but this is considered normal for a sensitive person up here in NB Canada. I wouldn't worry too much Beth Nixon Stone Brook Products Penobsquis, NB Canada ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Jul 1995 10:51:15 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Subject: Re: Fair market value for comb honey In-Reply-To: <950726.074638.EDT.SYSAM@ALBANY> On Wed, 26 Jul 1995, Aaron Morris wrote: > Fred Chase queried about the fair market value of > hogg comb sections. I replied directly to Fred, but decided I should > also post to the list. I'd be interested to hear what Allen Dick has > to say about this and perhaps he can offer some hints about finding > local markets for comb honey. Well, we sell mostly into export in bulk, but we've tried the local route and there are many producing and selling 2000 or so combs easily for good profit in local markets. Here are suggestions: Gift shops - especially at airports - comb in rounds is suit pocket size. Candy stores in tourist areas. Farmers markets- approach someone already selling there. Yuppie type malls with lots of gourmet shops Another plan: Shrink wrap them in half dozens and sell as a backup gift idea - The person buys them, freezes them until Christams, then distributes them as gifts to those folks who show up at the last minute whne you have already got the shopping done. You should have no trouble selling for $2 and up. Retaillers can sell up to $5 if they are fresh and presented right - say next to the till in the store. In bulk, Glorybee is always looking as is Moonshine Trading. W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper VE6CFK Rural Route One Swalwell Alberta Canada T0M 1Y0 Email: dicka@cuug.ab.ca or allend@internode.net Futures, Art & Honey:http://www.cuug.ab.ca:8001/~dicka ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Jul 1995 08:56:44 AST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Tom Elliott Subject: Insecticide in Paint and effect on Bees Having been asked for help with strange behavior in a hive, Fletcher Miller & I (Tom Elliott), went for a look see. We found a single hive of honeybees, about 50 ft. from the beekeepers house, who behaved rather strangely. When standing near the house one or two bees would come up and aggressively buzz around. The beekeepers were quite intimidated even though they normally worked their bees without any protective equipment beyond a smoker. They had received several stings and bees were no longer "fun". All stinging took place in the immediate area around the house. Fletcher & I were able to take off their honey, and do some pretty involved manipulations, without any gear but a smoker. No signs of hostility. It turned out that the house was in the process of being oiled (a natural cedar house) and because of extreme mosquito problems a diazinon insecticide designed for addition to house paints & such was added to the oil. Our conclusion was that the insecticide was the cause of the bees strange hostility. Anyone know of anything like this. Any way to deal with the problem. My suggestion was to place the hive at a greater distance from the house, but that was just a shot in the dark. Any information which might help prevent a repeat of this years problem may prevent this couple giving up on honeybees. Tom Elliott Anchorage, Alaska Tom_Elliott_at_ANCAV1@JHQNOV.DOT.STATE.AK.US ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Jul 1995 16:39:04 +1200 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Robert Rice Subject: Beekeeping Opportunity Dear Bee-liners, I apologies in advance as this message is not strictly in keeping with the purpose of BEE-L. BEEKEEPING BUSINESS OPPORTUNITY IN NEW ZEALAND A friend is wanting to sell his commercial honey production business which is based on the Nth Canterbury Plains near Christchurch, New Zealand. If this opportunity is of interest to you or anyone you might know please ask the to contact me directly (not via BEE-L). Robert Rice Apiculture Services Manager (Sth Island) Ministry of Agriculture P.O. Box 24, Lincoln, New Zealand. E-Mail ricer@lincoln.mqm.govt.nz ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Jul 1995 19:47:00 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Mike Worrell Subject: Need Advice Starting Library The Central Maryland Beekeepers Assoc. would like to start a library. We have $1000 to spend and would like to spend it on books and videos. Are there any assoc. out there that have done so? How did you go about it with regard to sources, discounts and any other help you can offer, ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Jul 1995 11:44:00 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "David F. Verville" Subject: Which is it? Comments: To: att!BEE-L@UACSC2.ALBANY.EDU >>"When my new queen arrives from Kentucky, do I have to introduce >>> her in any special way in order that the existing bees will accept >>her? >>It is hard to introduce a queen to a drone layer. I'll let others try to >>answer this." What are we saying here? A drone layer A queen who's used up or A laying worker A worker who has assumed the role of queen? If it's a laying worker, shake'em If it's a drone layer, nuc a new queen! Dave Verville Plaistow, NH att!mvtowers!mvdfv ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 27 Jul 1995 02:11:00 PDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: bill fernihough Subject: Re: Introducing queen to a drone layer >having given this matter some thought, I think the way I would choose >would be this: > >Take a large cardboard box and shake all the bees into it, spraying them >lightly with sugar syrup and shaking the box lightly from time to time. > >Then add the queen - direct release into the box - once the bees are >demoralised and not flying or running. > >Then I would dump them immediately in front of the hive and let them run >in with the queen > >This is assuming that I didn't have another hive to split and add the old >bees from the drone layer to (after the queen is established in a split) >in order to arrive to arrive at two colonies. > >Allen > >W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper VE6CFK >Rural Route One Swalwell Alberta Canada T0M 1Y0 >Email: dicka@cuug.ab.ca or allend@internode.net >Futures, Art & Honey:http://www.cuug.ab.ca:8001/~dicka It is obvious this hasn't been tried, and I am really curious if it would work. I have done the other approach, taking the whole hive a few yards away, getting all the bees out, putting the supers back, and letting the bees fly back to discover a new queen in a cage that they quickly release. It has worked every time, strongly recommend it, even if its a bit more work and agony. bill fernihough HONEY i s sweeter then wine. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 27 Jul 1995 12:05:53 CST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Vladimir Ptacek Subject: Re: Introducing queen to a drone layer Hi, friends, for those who have more colonies: 1. Add a comb containing open young brood together with adhering bees to the treated colony. (The brood pheromones will turn the laying workers back to the normal ones.) 2. The week later destroy eventually constructed queen cells, add another comb with the youngest brood and bees and let the colony to raise a new queen. After she has established brood nest and many young bees emerged you can eventually change it for a genetically more valuable one. Vladimir Ptacek (ptacek@sci.muni.cz) ptacek@sci.muni.cz Fac. Sci., Masaryk Univ. 611 37 Brno, Czech Republ. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 27 Jul 1995 08:04:34 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Dave Einhorn Subject: honey comb Honey comb is also an old folk remedy for "Hay Fever". I consume a heaping tablespoon of comb each day during the winter, and then have a lot fewer symptoms when the spring comes. Dave Einhorn deinhorn@isnov.ab.umd.edu ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 27 Jul 1995 08:26:48 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Anguspd0@AOL.COM Subject: Guide to Pollen used by bees NEW POLLEN ATLAS JUST RELEASED POLLEN OF THE SOUTHEASTERN UNITED STATES: WITH EMPHASIS ON MELISSOPALYNOLOGY AND ENTOMOPALYNOLOGY (released in July, 1994; $27.00) by G. Jones, V. Bryant, M. Lieux, S. Jones, & P. Lingren The hardback edition of this pollen atlas of Southeastern U.S. flora is finally available for sale. It contains nearly 100 pages of text and indices as well as over 100 full-page plates. In total there are nearly 1,000 individual SEM photographs of 400 different vouchered pollen taxa found in flora of the Southeastern United States. In addition to a text portion, and plates, the book contains five separate indices that make finding the picture of any pollen grain easy. All of the SEM photographs are indexed according to their plant family, according to the plant's genus, by aperturation type, by ornamentation classification, and by individual photograph number. It is a remarkable publication for the price! Although this pollen atlas would be useful for any type of pollen research, it is especially useful for those individuals working with pollen-feeding insects and bees. Almost all of the pollen taxa represented in this book come from confirmed identifications of pollen taxa known to be used by bees in the production of honey, or pollen used as food by other types of pollen-eating insects. Copies may be ordered by email, by letter, by FAX, or by telephone from the American Association of Stratigraphic Palynologists. You may pay by VISA, Master Card, cash, or by check. If your order is accompanied by payment, AASP will send you the book free of additional postage and handling charges. If you want AASP to invoice you, postage and handling charges will be added . Send your orders to: Palynology Laboratory Telephone 409-845-5242 MS-4352 FAX 409-845-4070 Texas A&M University email (vbyrant@tamu.edu) College Station, Texas 77843-4352 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 27 Jul 1995 08:27:09 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Jeffrey P. Murray" Subject: Re: Odd Hot Weather Behavior In-Reply-To: <9506268067.AA806774796@jhqnov.dot.state.ak.us> (message from Tom Elliott on Wed, 26 Jul 1995 08:56:44 AST) I live in Atlanta, Georgia (USA), and have noticed some rather bizarre behavior recently from my bees. I have a couple of hives in the back yard, about 30 feet from the back-of-house sliding glass door, and for a number of mornings off and on I've noticed several hundred bees spread out over the sliding glass door about an hour before dawn. When I turn on the outside light, they become irritated and fly at the light, buzzing loudly. As it gets light, they disperse and either return to the hives or leave to forage. We've had 100+ degree Fahrenheit days here off and on over the course of the last couple of weeks, with very little rain and temperatures only cooling into the low eighties at night. Humidity levels are fairly high, despite the lack of rain. I've provided lots of water to the hives, but am wondering if this behavior indicates that the bees are seeking additional moisture from condensate on the glass door...? This is definitely not swarm behavior, but I've never seen it before. Both colonies have stores, and although both are new package colonies (started in April), populations are good and they've both drawn comb in 1+ full brood chambers. Any ideas? Jeef ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 27 Jul 1995 07:19:17 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Subject: Re: Introducing queen to a drone layer Comments: To: bill fernihough In-Reply-To: > It is obvious this hasn't been tried, and I am really curious if it would > work. It has been tried and is a documented method of queen introduction. As far as I can see both methods are basically the same. It is only a question of technique. The feeding and shaking gives the added bonus of ensuring that the bees will not be cranky if there is a dearth, however it is possible that the feeding could cause problems if there is robbing in the yard. But, if there is robbing going on, all bets are off for either method. Requeening drone layers is a waste of time for the most part and I believe we are only discussing this because the original poster has no other hives from which to make a nuc for intro. (I believe). Allen W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper VE6CFK Rural Route One Swalwell Alberta Canada T0M 1Y0 Email: dicka@cuug.ab.ca or allend@internode.net Futures, Art & Honey:http://www.cuug.ab.ca:8001/~dicka ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 27 Jul 1995 11:08:52 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Timothy S. Sterrett" Subject: Re: An association library In-Reply-To: <199507270411.AAA22435@locke.ccil.org> You may find it more satisfactory to buy the books and give them to a local library. The downside of having an association library is not losing the books, but the frustration created among members because people have the books and do not return them or, worse, people are suspected of having books and not returning them. Books disappear and can be replaced most of the time. Bad feelings among members linger. Ah, such cynicism! Tim Sterrett tss@locke.ccil.org Westtown, Pennsylvania 19395-1799 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 27 Jul 1995 11:30:40 CST Reply-To: mbristow@palomo.chillan.udec.cl Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Marion L.Bristow" Subject: Re: An association library Cynical ... but true ! One way to cure the problem of "no returns" is to require that the members leave a deposite , a check , or a credit card number . This sometimes can be looked down on , it depends on the culture of the assoc.members ( ie.. UK folk's would consider it a breach of friendship , but in Chile ... it's buisness ). This is a CALL you have to make considering who the members are and the cultural background . Chao , Marion L.Bristow - Jefe Seccion Informatica Agriculture Sciences Campus Universidad de Concepcion , Campus Chillan Casilla 537 Chillan , Chile e-mail: mbristow@palomo.chillan.udec.cl ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 27 Jul 1995 12:32:43 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Bill Miller Subject: Box sizes To start our next discussion, I have the following survey question: How many of you: a) use one size of box (e.g.; deeps or mediums) for both brood boxes and supers. b) use one size box (deeps) for brood boxes and a smaller size (mediums and/or shallows) for supers? Personally, I use all mediums, with three mediums making up the brood area. The result is all boxes are completely interchangeable, and are of manageable weight. I also always have some drawn comb of the right size. The downside is that where the deep users have 20 brood area frames, I have 30. Any other thoughts? William Miller Gaithersburg, MD ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 27 Jul 1995 12:48:54 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Frederick L. Hollen" Subject: Re: An association library In-Reply-To: ; from "Timothy S. Sterrett" at Jul 27, 95 11:08 am Greetings, We in the Shenandoah Valley Beekeepers Association (Virginia) have donated subscriptions to American Bee Journal and Bee Culture to two local libraries -- which, by the way, are both well stocked with bee books. This has been well received by both libraries and makes the information available to the general public as well as to association members. Fred l. Hollen fhollen@pen.k12.va.us ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 27 Jul 1995 08:46:47 AST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Tom Elliott Subject: Box sizes (response) I use all deep boxes for exchangeability. Weight can be a problem, but as a hob byist I can take the time to remove honey a frame at a time. As to weight durin g manipulations I just "Grin & bear it." I only have three to six hives. Tom Elliott Eagle River, Alaska ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 27 Jul 1995 13:23:59 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Brian K. Cooley" Subject: Re: honey comb In-Reply-To: <1D5919E421D@isnov.ab.umd.edu> Indians used to place raw honey on open wounds. It is high in vitamin E, which of course promotes skin healing, contains compounds that absorb moisture out of a wound, and forms hydrogen peroxide when it comes in contact with blood, thus killing aerobic bacteria. Brian K. Cooley Environmental Consulting & Biological Services 1899 El Centro Drive Columbia, Missouri 65201 email: bcooley@mail.coin.missouri.edu phone: 314-474-3941 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 27 Jul 1995 13:46:38 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Charlee Glinka Subject: Re: Need Advice Starting Library >The Central Maryland Beekeepers Assoc. would like to start a library. We have >$1000 to spend and would like to spend it on books and videos. Are there any >assoc. out there that have done so? How did you go about it with regard to >sources, discounts and any other help you can offer, > > Hi-- You may want to consider the suggestions pertaining to working through one or more libraries in your area. I'm a librarian, and our staff bibliographers (folks who order books for the library) are always looking for collection areas which need bolstering due to local interest. Consider also that most libraries have interlibrary loan services which can maximize service to many individuals with a relatively small core collection; that they can "track" materials that are checked out so they can be retrieved when another individual wants to use them; and that they are offered discounts by book vendors which usually are not available to individuals or even smaller organizations because of the volume of money spent with the vendor. You may be able to ask the library to order the materials you want at a discount, house them for you, take care of the circulation of them, AND put a plate in each item honoring your organization as donor. *********************************************************** * I play it cool My motto, * * And dig all jive As I live and learn, * * That's the reason is: * * I stay alive. Dig And Be Dug * * In Return. * * Langston Hughes, 1951 * *********************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 27 Jul 1995 14:51:14 GMT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: MEMO 1995/07/27 14:59 From: John E III Taylor Subject: Re: Box sizes William-- I'm a hobbyist with two hives and a third planned from a split for next spring. Currently I'm using one deep and one medium for brood in south- eastern Pennsylvania, and this has been adequate for the past few years. The downside of the different-sized brood boxes is, of course, lack of interchangeability. There's no way I'd go to all deeps, as they're just too heavy for me, and I've been seriously considering the system you're using, three mediums for brood (with the option of adding a fourth if necessary) and mediums for supering. That keeps the weight to a reasonable level, and I believe would add to the flexibility of the system. John E. Taylor III W3ZID | "The opinions expressed are those of the E-Mail: mah48d@rohmhaas.com | writer and not of Rohm and Haas Company." ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 27 Jul 1995 17:16:23 CST Reply-To: mbristow@palomo.chillan.udec.cl Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Marion L.Bristow" Subject: Re: Box sizes (response) I also use all deep. It generally is less hassle for me and my operation is pretty mechinized , so weight isn't really a problem . Marion L.Bristow - Jefe Seccion Informatica Agriculture Sciences Campus Universidad de Concepcion , Campus Chillan Casilla 537 Chillan , Chile e-mail: mbristow@palomo.chillan.udec.cl ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 27 Jul 1995 17:58:59 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Kelley Rosenlund Subject: Re: Odd Hot Weather Behavior Does your sliding door face east? Maybe it is reflecting the morning sun & attracting them. God Bless, Kelley Rosenlund (rosenlk@freenet.ufl.edu) Gainesville, Florida, U.S.A. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 27 Jul 1995 18:07:32 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Kelley Rosenlund Subject: Propolis I now have 9 hives, 2 at separate locations in town and 7 in the country. I notice that the propolis of the town hives is lighter (grey) and a lot more "stringy", like when you step on bubble gum, and the country hives' propolis is a lot darker and harder. Has anyone else noticed this? God Bless, Kelley Rosenlund (rosenlk@freenet.ufl.edu) Gainesville, Florida, U.S.A. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 27 Jul 1995 15:42:39 PDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jane Beckman Subject: Re: Propolis Well, I have an urban/suburban beehive (Victorian neighborhood) in a middling city (San Jose, Ca.), and the propolis in my hive is hard, ranging from dark brown color to a pale amber. The "bubble gum" consistency you mention makes me wonder if this might be something other than a natural resin. Anyone know if bees actually go after chewing gum? ;-) Do they necessarily distinguish between resin and say, something like a caulking compound? Jane ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 27 Jul 1995 21:28:15 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Dave D. Cawley, a De Leon Socialist" Subject: Re: Box sizes (response) > From: Tom Elliott > > I only have three to six hives. Boy, I hope you're not an accountant! *smirk* ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Dave D. Cawley | The information on the Internet is only University Of Scranton | interesting to people who are interested Scranton, Pennsylvania | in it. dave@scranton.com | -Scranton Tomorrow Spokeswoman ddc1@jaguar.uofs.edu | refusing invitation to Internet Cafe's opening ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 27 Jul 1995 21:33:51 -500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Dan Buchsbaum Subject: Re: Box sizes In-Reply-To: <950727123242_42023174@aol.com> On Thu, 27 Jul 1995, Bill Miller wrote: > To start our next discussion, I have the following survey question: > > How many of you: > > > b) use one size box (deeps) for brood boxes and a smaller size (mediums > and/or shallows) for supers? > I use 2 deeps for the brood and stored honey and shallows for the supers. For anybody beginning beekeeping the shallows are best for stores. Didn't realize this until my first winter (such as it is in Houston) and I wanted to have a look at the brood. I can lift 50# feed bags okay, but this deep super with the stores was impossible to pick up. With my 110# of body weight and 0# brain weight I decided to insist on getting my way. I got my way. I also got to stay in bed for a few days. I always wondered why most of the beekeepers I 've seen are big brawny fellas... :) -Cynthia > > Any other thoughts? > > > William Miller > Gaithersburg, MD ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 28 Jul 1995 01:21:46 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Mike High Subject: Re: Box sizes I use deep boxes for brood chambers & medium or shallow for honey production.I always use 2 deep boxes to give the swarm lots of space.As to why,I would use deep boxes for honey but,A.They are too darn heavy when full B.The queen like to keep moving up(I dont use excluders) and C. I have lots of shallow & medium supers on hand. M.L.High ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 28 Jul 1995 02:26:33 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Subject: Re: Box sizes In-Reply-To: <01HTDW8IKHO89PNXNY@delphi.com> We use mostly standard Langstroth boxes with 8 frames for supers here. We have some 3/4 depth (6 5/8 inch) supers - about 1500 of them, but they are a nuisance to handle compared with the standards because we have to handle more than one and a half times as many boxes in the honey house and the field to accomplish the same work. 6 5/8 boxes are actually 64% not 69% as much comb area compared to 9.5 inch boxes because of the wood and bee space area are larger as a proportion of total height. The medium depth (6 5/8) supers are abandoned faster by the bees when pulling and they are lighter, but they are more costly both to buy and to use. Our fellows handle them 3 at a time when empty instead of two at a time like standards, but they just don't care for them because of all the extra handling and fussing. We ran Farrar equipment - 20 X 20 inch 6 5/8 deep boxes - for everything at one time, but sold them. Two queen colonies offered no advantage other than better wintering. The amount of work was more than double the work of single queen colonies. As far as weight is concerned, we try not to let standards get much over 55 pounds before we pull them. If they get fuller, we figure we are losing crop and encouraging burr and brace comb and wasting bee effort on capping and hunting for space for nectar. Many people like to get their boxes plugged up and then a standard can weigh up to 100 pounds (as I recall), but this is poor beekeeping IMHO. For broods, nothing beats the jumbo. We used to have some, but cut them down to standardise. If jumbos ever get full of honey they are really heavy. The queens like them best of all, and one jumbo is all the space any queen could need. However in our country, one jumbo does not contain enough stores for winter - and a jumbo plus a standard is too much space to have under an excluder. Using a jumbo plus a 6 5/8 would give three different box and frame sizes which is no way to run a commercial outfit IMHO. If I were hobbying, I would run jumbos for brood. Two standards gives a little too much brood chamber space and as a consequence, some hives don't always go up as well as we like so we keep a frame feeder in each brood box year round to reduce the comb area in the BC. We run both 9 and 10 frame spacing in the BC and don't notice any difference between the two. Using standards all around lets us draw comb in the thirds instead of forcing the bees to draw it in the seconds. Some hives just don't draw foundation well, and having it in the BC can be a problem in an otherwise good hive. A few undrawn sheets in the third, on the other hand are not a nuisance, as they get pulled automatically and later go on another hive. Foundation in the supers also pulls young bees up out of the BC and can reduce BC congestion. Bees always make some wax when there is a flow, and it is wise to provide some space to use it constructively. Otherwise it goes into tying everything together. We do often have foundation drawn at 8 frame spacing - because our boxes mostly have spacers, however some hives get it wrong and build across or between. Allen W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper VE6CFK Rural Route One Swalwell Alberta Canada T0M 1Y0 Email: dicka@cuug.ab.ca or allend@internode.net Futures, Art & Honey:http://www.cuug.ab.ca:8001/~dicka ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 28 Jul 1995 02:28:47 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Subject: Honey prices In-Reply-To: <01HTDW8IKHO89PNXNY@delphi.com> I hear prices as high as 58.5 cents per pound for water white clover honey in drums. What do others hear? Allen W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper VE6CFK Rural Route One Swalwell Alberta Canada T0M 1Y0 Email: dicka@cuug.ab.ca or allend@internode.net Futures, Art & Honey:http://www.cuug.ab.ca:8001/~dicka ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 28 Jul 1995 07:27:46 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: JOHN IANNUZZI Subject: Re: Box sizes > To start our next discussion, I have the following survey question: > > How many of you: > > a) use one size of box (e.g.; deeps or mediums) for both brood boxes and > supers. > > b) use one size box (deeps) for brood boxes and a smaller size (mediums > and/or shallows) for supers? > > Personally, I use all mediums, with three mediums making up the brood area. > The result is all boxes are completely interchangeable, and are of > manageable weight. I also always have some drawn comb of the right size. > The downside is that where the deep users have 20 brood area frames, I have > 30. > > Any other thoughts? > > > William Miller > Gaithersburg, MD > Bill, 1 I didn't know U were on B-L Albany! What a small world! 2 Years ago I wrote an article for GBC (ABJ?) advocating a new size frame which would fit into three shallow supers put together so that I would have only one size box to contend with: shallow--not mediums or deeps--because I use only shallows as honey supers--the other two sizes are too heavy to manage when full. 3. Young bucks out there don't realize this until the aging process creeps up on them. It's real (I'm approaching 69) 4. Naturally these remarks do not apply to the man/lady? who operates a single hive! I had 30 at one time, sunk to 4 and now am up to 24---2, 2, many 4 an oldster! Cheers. Your neighbor in nearby Ellicott City (founded 1772) MD Jack the B-man ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 28 Jul 1995 09:32:09 GMT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: MEMO 1995/07/28 09:45 From: John E III Taylor Subject: Re: Propolis I'm suburban in southeastern Pennsylvania, with a fair amount of wooded land nearby. The propolis my bees collect so lavishly runs from a very reddish brown to a dark brown. John E. Taylor III W3ZID | "The opinions expressed are those of the E-Mail: mah48d@rohmhaas.com | writer and not of Rohm and Haas Company." ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 28 Jul 1995 15:02:36 GMT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Steve Pearce Subject: Meltdown I wonder if anyone out there with more experience of heat can help! This Summer here in Scotland has been unusually hot (for us). I recently got 2 hives from a person who was giving up beekeeping, and after a while to see if they were healthy and free from disease put them in my apiary. They had no supers on, so I supered immediately. There was then a spell of hot weather, the wax on the frames I put in melted out. This has not happenned to the existing hives in the apiary. 1. If the bees move in properly to the supers will they keep it cool ? 2. Will more hot weather keep the bees out of the super anyway ? Steve Pearce Scotland ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 28 Jul 1995 10:16:10 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Jeffrey P. Murray" Subject: Re: Odd Hot Weather Behavior In-Reply-To: <199507272158.RAA51168@freenet2.freenet.ufl.edu> (message from Kelley Rosenlund on Thu, 27 Jul 1995 17:58:59 -0400) >Does your sliding door face east? Maybe it is reflecting the morning sun & >attracting them. >God Bless, >Kelley Rosenlund (rosenlk@freenet.ufl.edu) >Gainesville, Florida, U.S.A. > Nope, it faces west, so light shouldn't be the issue. Also, they cover the door when it is still almost completely dark. Jeeef ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 28 Jul 1995 09:43:31 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Jim G. Shoemaker" Subject: Re: Odd Hot Weather Behavior In-Reply-To: <199507281416.KAA00068@acmex.gatech.edu> Jeeeef: Have you tried closing the drape or turning off the inside lights. Jim ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 28 Jul 1995 01:25:00 GMT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Andy Nachbaur Organization: WILD BEE'S BBS (209) 826-8107 LOS BANOS, CA Subject: Re: Propolis JB>From: Jane Beckman >To: Multiple recipients of list BEE-L >Date: Thu, 27 Jul 1995 15:42:39 PDT >Subject: Re: Propolis JB>Well, I have an urban/suburban beehive (Victorian neighborhood) in a >middling city (San Jose, Ca.), and the propolis in my hive is hard, ranging >from dark brown color to a pale amber. Look at the wounds in the Blue Gum trees, this makes a red or pale amber propolis. JB>The "bubble gum" consistency you mention makes me wonder if this might >be something other than a natural resin. Anyone know if bees actually go >after chewing gum? ;-) Do they necessarily distinguish between resin and >say, something like a caulking compound? Sounds like this poster's bee's are within flying distance of one of those trailer heavens that used to be so popular in Florida and other places. Here in California natural propolis is in short supply most of the year and the bee's will bring in all kinds of man made propolis. >From grafting wax, to green paint off of out houses. The all must have some oil, like linseed oil that makes them attractive. The bee's will also rob propolis off of exposed bee equipment, and clean all the wax off of new frames not stored inside. I have seen them do a job on some stacked in the back of a open garage/workshop with the door open. Bee equipment from other states that do have LOT's and lot's of propolis so bad you can't get the frames out will be clean in one season in this part of California which proves that, at least to me, that propolis is indeed consumed by the bee in more activity then just sealing up the hive for winter. I suspect it is used to varnish or coat the inside of brood cells and plays some part in the health of the bee grub, or it could just be a engineering thing to hold the heat in the brood area. I do know for sure it disappears and that bee's hear about's spend much time working on substitutes for it. ttul Andy- --- ~ QMPro 1.53 ~ Bienenzuechter ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 28 Jul 1995 11:30:35 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Lucy Cronin Subject: Re: Odd Hot Weather Behavior This is just a guess, but could they be taking advantage of the cool air in your house. If they are cooling off on the cool glass also they are not heating up the hive and allowing more air circulation in the hive. ??? Lucy ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 28 Jul 1995 13:36:41 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Kelley Rosenlund Subject: Queen problems About 5 weeks ago I started trying to remove a hive from the hollow cornerstone of a house. I made a screen funnel and placed a 10 frame hive with three frames of brood/eggs about 7 inches from the funnel exit. By 4 July the bee population exploded so I added another super of frames along with pollen substitute/honey pattie. I also added another frame of brood/eggs as I saw no signs of queen cells. This last Wednesday I went back and all the brood had hatched, no eggs but there were two new & empty queen cells. A friend of mine thinks the hive body is too close the the "wild" hive and that the wild queen's phermones are keeping the bees in the "domestic" hive from starting a new queen and suggests I move the hive further away from the cone exit.. Do you agree? If not what do you suggest to get the hive queened? God Bless, Kelley Rosenlund (rosenlk@freenet.ufl.edu) Gainesville, Florida, U.S.A. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 28 Jul 1995 14:21:41 AST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Tom Elliott Subject: Bears & Counting First in response to Blaine Whites response to my "Insecticide in Paint" query: Sorry to say as far as I know there are no new bear defenses here in the "Frozen North." Bees are almost entirely in the hobby catagory up here. I do know of one trailer, built to hold 10 hives, armored with heavy duty wire mesh. But nothing really new to report. Next a response to Dave Cawley (the 'accountant' from University of Scranton): Over the years I have kept varying numbers of colonies. This year three, last year four, the year before. . . . . The winters here are too long for easy or reliable wintering of bees. More often than not I find populations so low in the spring that they are not worth keeping separately. Mainly I buy new bees each year. Some years my finances ca n stand more than others. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 28 Jul 1995 17:20:16 -0500 Reply-To: godave@infi.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Dave Johnson Organization: mailhost.nr.infi.net Subject: Re: Box sizes > > To start our next discussion, I have the following survey question: > > > > How many of you: > > > > a) use one size of box (e.g.; deeps or mediums) for both brood boxes and > > supers. > > > > b) use one size box (deeps) for brood boxes and a smaller size (mediums > > and/or shallows) for supers? > > > > Personally, I use all mediums, with three mediums making up the brood area. > > The result is all boxes are completely interchangeable, and are of > > manageable weight. I also always have some drawn comb of the right size. > > The downside is that where the deep users have 20 brood area frames, I have > Hey, I mix deep and medium supers. Deep for brood boxes and medium for the honey supers. Several years ago, as a new hobby beekeeper, I contemplated buying all medium (Illinois) boxes for both the brood nest and honey production. Here's what ended my decision: medium supers are too small to allow their use as 'shells' around feeding buckets inverted over the inner cover. I bought both, but still really like the idea of one size box, given its simplicity and interchangibility. Of course, I keep half a dozen hives in my back yard. Bad back and all. Dave Johnson Suffolk, VA USA ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 29 Jul 1995 02:34:00 GMT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Andy Nachbaur Organization: WILD BEE'S BBS (209) 826-8107 LOS BANOS, CA Subject: June Honey Prices UP ---------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------- GOOD NEWS! US Honey prices continued to rise during June according to the reports found in the June issue of the NATIONAL HONEY MARKET NEWS. The market was topped by imported white clover honey from Argentina quoted at $0.71 for August delivery. US honey was quoted at between 50 and 63 cents for white clover honey and 65 cents for Canadian supplies. __________________________________________________________ (//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////) (//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////) /~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~\ | Some US HONEY Prices for June 1995 | | | | Calif. Sage 57-60 new crop white | | Buckwheat 55 new crop ex light amber | | Orange/Sage | | 50-58 white | | | | Florida New Crop | | Orange 60-65 white | | " 60-63 ex lt amb | | " 57 lt amber | | Gallberry 58-63 white, ext lt amb | | | | North Dakota | | Clover 56-63 white | | | | | | Crop conditions are reported as spotty with weather prob. | |____________________________________________________________| \___________________________________________________________/ --- ~ QMPro 1.53 ~ Oversexed people are just more prone......to eat honey! --- ~ QMPro 1.53 ~ Bienenzuechter ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 29 Jul 1995 08:58:08 +0000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Keith Hooker Organization: Technology Management Ltd Subject: Re: Bears & Counting > The winters here are too long for easy or reliable wintering of bees. More > often than not I find populations so low in the spring that they are not worth > keeping separately. What do you call a long winter? Although we get low(ish) temperatures and grotty conditions our bees can usually find a day or two per month when they can get out on cleaning flights. There are even a few pollen sources available. Keith >>> Keith JM Hooker <<< >>> Technology Management Ltd <<< >>> WHITSTABLE Kent CT5 4ED UK <<< ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 29 Jul 1995 16:12:34 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Brian Tassey Subject: Re: Box sizes We use a deep and a 6 5/8 medium with a frame feeder in it year-round. 9 frames below and 8 frames (tight) above (the feeders take up 2 frames space). This seems to be an ideal size for the brood chamber (Central CA). All of our bees are on pallets. I've thought about this box size idea many times. This configuration saves some height on a truck but only about 7 inches. It is lighter by about 15% and the filled supers (mediums) are easier to handle (weight-wise). I bought into an existing business and am really set to run it this way. I'm going to start running hives for myself also in the next 2 years and have settled on a configuration basically like Allen described. The size of the brood-chamber does seem to be too large but, the addition of a feeder into each box should help there. This also would give the chambers complete interchangability which makes dividing much quicker and cheaper. For a commercial operation keeping bees is very labor-intensive. Any reduction in time, and repetition is money in the bank. The equipment is cheaper, more available, less wasted spaces in the hive, and much more efficient in the honeyhouse and the field. I'm sold, the big drawback is the weights of deeps filled. Allen, I'm one of those guilty of "plugging-out" supers and have had numerous discussions with my partner about this subject. We are trying some "too-soon supering" (for lack of a better term) to get a sense of it this year. I hope it does prove to work better because if I wanted to be "buffed-out" I'd rather go to the gym than lift off deeps in 100 F+ temps. We just sold 40 barrels for $.555 (amber orange/wildfower mix) orange crop was down to poor temps and rain. Also, the Piercos seem to be working out fine, they did do a much better job of stiffening them. Here's a question for the group, I just finished reading the Aug. issue of ABJ and found the article about the "Drone to Worker Shift" pg. 535 interesting. How about some views on when to treat hives for Varroa based on hive growth patterns and fall preprations. Do you think that treating early (possibly with low V counts) saves those winter bees for the cluster and causes less winter loss? When do you treat? Lots of people I know say by the middle of Sept. they want to be finished (Central CA). We have had much better success in the last two years. I think that comes a great deal from others in the area treating also and a lowered reinfestation pressure. I would tend to think timing is crucial. So how about this one! Brian Tassey Kaykin@aol.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 29 Jul 1995 18:58:58 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Yvonne Leduc <71604.1230@COMPUSERVE.COM> Subject: Request for E-mail command information I replaced my hard drive on my computer and left some vital files on the old one, such as the ones from BEE-LINE explaining how to subscribe/unscribe, stop sending mail, access archived material, etc. If one of you knows this information or can explain how I can get the files again that hold this information, I'd appreciate it. I received it all when I subscribed and filed it away for future use, but at this time I can't get at it. Yvonne Leduc Airdrie, Alberta Compuserve Address: 71604,1230 (via Internet: 71604.1230@COMPUSERVE.COM) ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 29 Jul 1995 22:05:13 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: jim wolf Subject: Re: Request for E-mail command information >I replaced my hard drive on my computer and left some vital files on the old >one, such as the ones from BEE-LINE explaining how to subscribe/unscribe, stop >sending mail, access archived material, etc. If one of you knows this >information or can explain how I can get the files again that hold this >information, I'd appreciate it. I received it all when I subscribed and filed >it away for future use, but at this time I can't get at it. > >Yvonne Leduc >Airdrie, Alberta >Compuserve Address: 71604,1230 >(via Internet: 71604.1230@COMPUSERVE.COM) > >here is the info you need. Jim Wolf Please save this message for future reference, especially if you are not familiar with LISTSERV. This might look like a waste of disk space now, but in 6 months you will be glad you saved this information when you realize that you cannot remember what are the lists you are subscribed to, or what is the command to leave the list to avoid filling up your mailbox while you are on vacations. In fact, you should create a new mail folder for subscription confirmation messages like this one, and for the "welcome messages" from the list owners that you will occasionally receive after subscribing to a new list. To send a message to all the people currently subscribed to the list, just send mail to BEE-L@UACSC2.ALBANY.EDU. This is called "sending mail to the list", because you send mail to a single address and LISTSERV makes copies for all the people who have subscribed. This address (BEE-L@UACSC2.ALBANY.EDU) is also called the "list address". You must never try to send any command to that address, as it would be distributed to all the people who have subscribed. All commands must be sent to the "LISTSERV address", LISTSERV@UACSC2.ALBANY.EDU (or LISTSERV@ALBNYVM1.BITNET). It is very important to understand the difference between the two, but fortunately it is not complicated. The LISTSERV address is like a FAX number, and the list address is like a normal phone line. If you make your FAX call someone's regular phone number by mistake, it will be an unpleasant experience for him but you will probably be excused the first time. If you do it regularly, however, he will probably get upset and send you a nasty complaint. It is the same with mailing lists, with the difference that you are calling hundreds or thousands of people at the same time, so a lot more people get annoyed if you use the wrong number. You may leave the list at any time by sending a "SIGNOFF BEE-L" command to LISTSERV@UACSC2.ALBANY.EDU (or LISTSERV@ALBNYVM1.BITNET). You can also tell LISTSERV how you want it to confirm the receipt of messages you send to the list. If you do not trust the system, send a "SET BEE-L REPRO" command and LISTSERV will send you a copy of your own messages, so that you can see that the message was distributed and did not get damaged on the way. After a while you may find that this is getting annoying, especially if your mail program does not tell you that the message is from you when it informs you that new mail has arrived from BEE-L. If you send a "SET BEE-L ACK NOREPRO" command, LISTSERV will mail you a short acknowledgement instead, which will look different in your mailbox directory. With most mail programs you will know immediately that this is an acknowledgement you can read later. Finally, you can turn off acknowledgements completely with "SET BEE-L NOACK NOREPRO". Contributions sent to this list are automatically archived. You can get a list of the available archive files by sending an "INDEX BEE-L" command to LISTSERV@UACSC2.ALBANY.EDU (or LISTSERV@ALBNYVM1.BITNET). You can then order these files with a "GET BEE-L LOGxxxx" command, or using LISTSERV's database search facilities. Send an "INFO DATABASE" command for more information on the latter. Please note that it is presently possible for anybody to determine that you are signed up to the list through the use of the "REVIEW" command, which returns the e-mail address and name of all the subscribers. If you do not want your name to be visible, just issue a "SET BEE-L CONCEAL" command. More information on LISTSERV commands can be found in the LISTSERV reference card, which you can retrieve by sending an "INFO REFCARD" command to LISTSERV@UACSC2.ALBANY.EDU (or LISTSERV@ALBNYVM1.BITNET). It's a small world But, I wouldn't want to clean it! The Wolif ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 30 Jul 1995 13:02:00 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Jeff Boyle (803) 250-8265" Subject: Re: Propolis I have two hives which are definitely way out in the country in South Carolina. I too have noticed the proprolis is a bit like gum (stringy). Apparently, the reason for the gum likeness here is the heat because you can remove it from the hive and take it indoors and it will become hard and brittle. Its color is light brown. Just removed a bunch yesterday. Jeff Boyle BOYLEJOB@GVLTEC.EDU ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 30 Jul 1995 15:44:22 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Laura Downey Subject: Bee stings Yesterday while taking some frames out of the super, I was stung on my left hand ring finger ( and yes, I had rings on, although I know I shouldn't have ). I had to get my rings cut off as my finger started swelling up. The swelling starts at the site of the sting, the knuckle, and goes down the back of my hand. Does this mean I am allergic to bee venom? I have been stung before, but never on the hands. I've never had more than a slight itchy reaction before. Laura Downey (CORVI29@AOL.COM) ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 30 Jul 1995 14:43:46 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "La Reine de la Cite' des Phoques (Liz Day)" Subject: Re: Bears & Counting I don't think the winters in the UK are like those in Alaska! From: Keith Hooker > The winters here are too long for easy or reliable wintering of bees. More > often than not I find populations so low in the spring that they are not worth > keeping separately. What do you call a long winter? Although we get low(ish) temperatures and grotty conditions our bees can usually find a day or two per month when they can get out on cleaning flights. There are even a few pollen sources available. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 30 Jul 1995 14:48:50 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "La Reine de la Cite' des Phoques (Liz Day)" Subject: Re: Bee stings Isn't there a FAQ on stings and allergies somewhere? Liz Day LDAY@indy.net Indianapolis, Indiana, central USA ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 30 Jul 1995 17:57:39 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Laura Downey Subject: Re: Bee stings If there is a FAQ about bee stings, I'd certainly be interested. If anyone knows where I can obtain one, I'd be very appreciative. Laura Downey (CORVI29@aol.com) ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 30 Jul 1995 18:28:09 +22300129 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Adam Finkelstein Subject: Bee sting faq In-Reply-To: <950730175736_44106634@aol.com> from "Laura Downey" at Jul 30, 95 05:57:39 pm Paul Cheng was supposed to be working on the document on bee stings and allergies--I think he is in Med school and gets busy occasionally. If you would like to get the latest copy of the beekeeping FAQ, pointing toward internet beekeeping resources, here's what you do: * WWW URL: ftp://rtfm.mit.edu/pub/usenet/news.answers/beekeeping-faq * WWW URL: http://www.cis.ohio-state.edu:80/hypertext/faq/usenet/beekeeping-faq/faq.html * FTP: FTP rtfm.mit.edu log on anonymous, then cd to /pub/usenet/news.answers/beekeeping-faq can also FTP to: ftp.uu.net /usenet/news.answers/beekeeping-faq If you can't use FTP, you may email for the faq. Here's how: * email: mail-server@rtfm.mit.edu no subject in body of letter put: send usenet/news.answers/beekeeping-faq * Usenet The beekeeping faq is posted every month to: news.answers, sci.answers, misc.answers, alt.answers, rec.answers as well as sci.agriculture.beekeeping, misc.rural, alt.sustainable.agriculture, and rec.gardens. As a last resort, you may mail me and I'll send you the latest version, but I might take longer than the above sources.... As always, please send suggestions, comments, criticisms, and I'll do what I can. Wishing you the best in the beekeeping world, Adam -- ________________________________ Adam Finkelstein adamf@vtaix.cc.vt.edu Adaptive significance-- what's that? ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 30 Jul 1995 18:41:14 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Laura Downey Subject: Re: Bee sting faq Adam, Thank you for the information regarding the bee-sting FAQs. I'll definitely look into those sources. Laura Downey (CORVI29@aol.com) ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 30 Jul 1995 23:44:38 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Brian K. Cooley" Subject: Re: Bee stings In-Reply-To: <950730154420_126395901@aol.com> An allergic reaction could be possible even if you showed no signs of an allergy before. Often your body will not trigger a reaction until it has been exposed a certain number of times and some people do not show signs of allergies until they are 40 years old. Once, triggered though it will always be with you. Another question would be whether you were taking any medication at the time. Certain medications will cause bad reactions if you are out in the sun while taking them. So that could be possible. Brian K. Cooley Environmental Consulting & Biological Services 1899 El Centro Drive Columbia, Missouri 65201 email: bcooley@mail.coin.missouri.edu phone: 314-474-3941 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 31 Jul 1995 12:56:36 +0930 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "David R. Woodward" Subject: Address for a.i. supplier? Could anyone please send me the address (postal, fax and E-mail if known) of a company supplying instrumental (artificial) insemination equipment for queen bees? I presume this would be a German company but maybe there are other suppliers/manufacturers? Many thanks in anticipation. David Woodward Senior Apicultural Adviser Facsimile (08) 2077852 Department of Primary Industries Phone (08) 2077976 GPO Box 1671 E-mail woodward.david@pi.sa.gov.au Adelaide South Australia 5001 AUSTRALIA ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 31 Jul 1995 09:35:39 +0100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Martin Benoit Subject: honey Hello everybody, Honey is a well-know bee product. To satisfay lis customers, some beekeepers use different techniques. In fact people want a creamy or a liquid honey. To liquify the honey, some beekeepers put the honey pot in the microwave oven. What do you think about this method ? What do you think about the honey composition, anc especially with the HMF ? Are there some experiments carried out on this topic ? Are there some publications on this topic ? Do the liquified honey by microwave oven conserve his porperties ? Thank you for your opinion. Benoit Martin e-mail : bmartin@quick.cc.fundp.ac.be ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 31 Jul 1995 11:37:11 +0100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jean-Marie Van Dyck Subject: Re: Address for a.i. supplier Comments: To: woodward.david@pi.sa.gov.au On Mon, 31 Jul 1995 "David R. Woodward" asked ... > Could anyone please send me the address (postal, fax and E-mail > if known) of a company supplying instrumental (artificial) > insemination equipment for queen bees? I presume this would be a > German company but maybe there are other suppliers/manufacturers? > Many thanks in anticipation. Hi David ! Bonjour de Belgique (Hello from Belgium) I know a swiss (french switzerland) supplier : superb precision material from a small watch factory whose manager is a beekeeper (buckfast bees). His picking tool is also up-to-date (dental stainless steel electronically polished)(It is the so-called swiss one). His address : Mr Emile GUILLAUME Grand rue 50 CH-1338 BALLAIGUES (switzerland) Phone : +41.21.843.22.27 Fax : +41.21.843.25.17 Email : not yet Hope this helps ! Jean-Marie ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Jean-Marie Van Dyck Fax +32 81 72 42 72 B.P. 102 email : jmvandyck@quick.cc.fundp.ac.be B-5000 NAMUR(Belgium) Medical school - Biochemistry dept This => C'est ma facon de parler ! ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 31 Jul 1995 13:18:56 +0100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jean-Marie Van Dyck Subject: Re: Saying about swarms ... Comments: To: anndough@u.washington.edu, dicka@cuug.ab.ca Hi all ! On Sat, 22 Jul 1995 14:41:39 Ann Dougherty give the old story ... > A Swarm in May is worth a load of hay. > A Swarm in June is worth a silver spoon. > A Swarm in July isn't worth a fly. We have the same saying in french : Essaim de Mai, Vache a Lait (A Swarm in May, a Milking Cow) Don't forget this is an old-fashioned one ! The time of skeps and log hives without any manipulating possibility and without any sugar ! And on the old continent without the flowers of the Canada prairie ! (Hello Allen, I come back from vacation and I'll send you sthg about JZBZ) Here most of the honey flows are finished at the end of July. An early swarm may produce a real annual crop; a late one will not be able to get enough stores to winter. Cheers Jean-Marie Local blooming informations ... Long. : 4deg 56' E - Lat. : 50deg 30' N - Alt. : 200 m - North sea : 200 km A mounth of really good wheater (a bit to hot) and generally excellent honey crops ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Jean-Marie Van Dyck Fax +32 81 72 42 72 B.P. 102 email : jmvandyck@quick.cc.fundp.ac.be B-5000 NAMUR(Belgium) Medical school - Biochemistry dept This => C'est ma facon de parler ! ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 31 Jul 1995 08:38:13 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: JOHN IANNUZZI Subject: HoneyBeerAlcohol? Comments: cc: jr0002@epfl2.epflbalto.org, br0005@epfl2.epflbalto.org, jr0005@epfl2.epflbalto.org, fkovac@CapAccess.org Hi toute le monde, How much alcohol does honey pop--or any homade pop-- have, if any? As I do w/ honey wine and honey beer, I take a hydrometer reading before adding the yeast and after the fermentation has stopped and get a potential alcohol reading, never more than 14%. With the pop, the beginning and ending readings are virtually identical indicating very very very little, if any, ethyl alcohol. Please help. Just got a letter from a Lt.Col. in Guam asking ME the same question. Merci beaucoup in advance. Jack the B-man Ellicott City (founded 1772) MD usa mon31jul95 0841 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 31 Jul 1995 08:51:42 CST Reply-To: mbristow@palomo.chillan.udec.cl Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Marion L.Bristow" Subject: Re: Address for a.i. supplier? Try the following company : SWIENTY Hortoftveg 16 Ragebol 6400 Sonderborg Denmark Tel/Fax : (74)48 80 01 Tel : (74)48 69 69 They sell a pretty neat micro-manipulator/insemination equipment manufactured by "Silver". They are reallt simple to operate . Chao , Marion L.Bristow - Jefe Seccion Informatica Agriculture Sciences Campus Universidad de Concepcion , Campus Chillan Casilla 537 Chillan , Chile e-mail: mbristow@palomo.chillan.udec.cl ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 31 Jul 1995 08:39:31 AST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Tom Elliott Subject: Anchorage, Alaska winters Here in the more temperate coastal area of Alaska we can usually count on weather for cleansing flights into October. Then again in late March or early April. We may have cleansing flights in between and maybe not. There are absolutely no sources of pollen between mid September and mid to late April when the willows bloom. Often daytime temperatures in April do not make the pollen or nectar of the earliest blooms available to the bees. On rarer occasions I have had packages increase their honey stores from April blooms, so they would also have been bringing in pollen. I am not suggesting that bees cannot make it through the winter. Just that it takes a lot more special attention than I read about in the Journals. I have never kept bees anywhere else so my experience is limited. I have had bees here in the Anchorage area for about 13 years (my limitation as an accountant is showing again I know). -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------ I don't think the winters in the UK are like those in Alaska! From: Keith Hooker What do you call a long winter? Although we get low(ish) temperatures and grotty conditions our bees can usually find a day or two per month when they can get out on cleaning flights. There are even a few pollen sources available. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 31 Jul 1995 19:20:14 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Laura Downey Subject: Re: Bee stings Brian, It would appear that I am not allergic to bee venom. The sting was on Saturday - as of today, Monday, the swelling has gone down considerably, and there is a faint itch. I think it was more of a scare about being allergic to bees, as that would be a terrible thing indeed! Laura ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 31 Jul 1995 08:02:39 +0000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Keith Hooker Organization: Technology Management Ltd Subject: Re: Bee stings > From: Laura Downey > Subject: Bee stings > Yesterday while taking some frames out of the super, I was stung on my > left hand ring finger ( and yes, I had rings on, although I know I shouldn't > have ). As an observation, I have come to the conclusion that bees do not like sweat especially from under my wrist watch strap and therefore remove it and wash my wrist before working bees. I know only too well that if I wear the watch (it has a metal strap) I will be stung in that area. Do rings work in a similar way? I have a sygnet ring but the main part is thin and perhaps the finger does not collect sweat like the area under a wrist watch because I am seldom stung on any finger. Keith >>> Keith JM Hooker <<< >>> Technology Management Ltd <<< >