========================================================================= Date: Fri, 1 Sep 1995 00:20:25 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Dave D. Cawley, a De Leon Socialist" Subject: Re: Liz's hand lotion > From: Brian Tassey > Liz, > If your going to stick your hands in kerosene I'm with Marion, please give up > cigarettes! Yeah, take up pipe smoking. It's more dignified looking and better smelling...8-} ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Dave D. Cawley | The information on the Internet is only University Of Scranton | interesting to people who are interested Scranton, Pennsylvania | in it. dave@scranton.com | -Scranton Tomorrow Spokeswoman ddc1@jaguar.uofs.edu | refusing invitation to Internet Cafe's opening ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 1 Sep 1995 10:23:55 GMT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Steve Pearce Subject: parraffin There seems to be a debate over what liquid parraffin is parraffin here it is what y'all call kerosene, but there is other stuff = "liquid parraffin" which my vet told me to give my cat to get rid of furrballs. It is clear thick and non-smelly. So ask your USA vet what they would use on furrballs and you have your answer! Steve Pearce Kilspindie Glorious Perthshire Scotland ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 31 Aug 1995 21:29:37 +0100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Gordon Scott Subject: My mail address. In-Reply-To: <199508301421.KAA34184@freenet2.freenet.ufl.edu> Hi all, I have some confusion here with my mailer's interpretation of my address and bee-l's subsequent interpretion of that. If you try mailing me directly before I get it sorted out, please check the reply address is gordon@apis.demon.co.uk. Adresses gordon@apis.bitnet or just gordon@apis are WRONG! My apologies to anyone affected. Regards, -- Gordon Scott gordon@apis.demon.co.uk CompuServe 100332,3310 gordon@multitone.co.uk CompuServe 100070,413 Beekeeper; Kendo 3rd Dan; Sometime sailor. The Basingstoke Beekeeper (newsletter) beekeeper@apis.demon.co.uk ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 31 Aug 1995 22:14:35 +0100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Gordon Scott Subject: Re: Honeybee comb building In-Reply-To: On Wed, 30 Aug 1995, Kevin Roddy wrote: > What makes the cells of honeybee combs hexagonal? > > I'm not especially interested in unreferenced opinions > unless they're from apiculturists (bee people). Hi Kevin, Well, I'm a beekeeper and an engineer, so I guess I could venture an unreferenced opinion ;-) Throw a handfull of matching sized ballbearings into a tray and look at the pattern that naturally results. Consider that nature likes efficiency. Put your hand on your heart, look me straight in the virtual eye, and tell me that nature isn't just being efficient here! BTW, Social wasp's nests have a similar hexagonal pattern. Regards, -- Gordon Scott gordon@apis.demon.co.uk CompuServe 100332,3310 gordon@multitone.co.uk CompuServe 100070,413 Beekeeper; Kendo 3rd Dan; Sometime sailor. The Basingstoke Beekeeper (newsletter) beekeeper@apis.demon.co.uk ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 31 Aug 1995 21:22:13 +0100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Gordon Scott Subject: Re: Queen Storage In-Reply-To: <199508301421.KAA34184@freenet2.freenet.ufl.edu> On Wed, 30 Aug 1995, Kelley Rosenlund wrote: > On page 246 of Eva Crane's Bees and Beekeeping, she briefly talks about > storing many queens (in boxes)in hives for later use. Has anyone tried this > and with what success? Hi Kelly, I haven't seen a reply to this yet, so I'll offer my little knowledge. I haven't used the method -- I'm too small to have enough queens, but I'm confident that many people do use it. A number of people raising queens in modest quantities have assured me that it's their preferred method of keeping them for a time. I have this feeling that I've even heard of people overwintering them like that, but I am rather sceptical about that. I don't believe there are problems with fighting if the queens are physically separated. I doubt it's a good idea to store them _too_ long as queens _do_ want to lay eggs and will get upset. Hopefully someone else will soon give some first-hand information. Regards, -- Gordon Scott gordon@apis.demon.co.uk CompuServe 100332,3310 gordon@multitone.co.uk CompuServe 100070,413 Beekeeper; Kendo 3rd Dan; Sometime sailor. The Basingstoke Beekeeper (newsletter) beekeeper@apis.demon.co.uk ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 1 Sep 1995 07:20:02 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Diana Sammataro Subject: Re: Paper by Mussen In-Reply-To: from "John Harbo" at Jul 20, 95 01:19:29 pm John: I received from Eric the paper he sent you on tracheal mites. I understand you are writing one too . WHat is the progress of this paper and how can I get a copy of it? I am trying to finish up my disseratation to defend in Oct. and am using some of his survey work, not included in the paper. I just need to know how to cite it. Thanks in advance. Sorry I cannot attend the meeting but I will be up to my eyeballs, Next year, when I have finished my tracheal mite video. Diana Sammataro ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 1 Sep 1995 11:35:55 +0100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: International Bee Research Subject: B.mail September 1995 Comments: To: socinsct@albnyvm1.BITNET, "hugo.veerkamp" , polpal-l@uoguelph.ca ========================================= B-MAIL A monthly newsletter on issues and events in the bee world, provided by IBRA, the world information service for bee science and beekeeping. >From Andrew Matheson, Director **September 1995** ========================================= ***************************************** BEEKEEPER MEETS BEEKEEPER ***************************************** And four thousand of us did, so I'm told, at the international apicultural congress held in Lausanne last month. I really appreciated the chance to talk with new and old friends from all around the world, and to hear something of developments in this bee world of ours. It was particularly pleasing to hear the feedback about this digital digest, the virtual newsletter that is B.mail. Many of you told me how interesting and useful this bulletin is. We'll do our best to keep the quality improving all the time. But there is another side to the story (of course!). Don't forget that B.mail has to be paid for; and while we don't charge you anything it is our members and subscribers who pick up the tab in the end. Heartfelt thanks to them, and if you like B.mail maybe you'd care to support all of our charitable activities by becoming a member. Want more details? E.mail me or visit our web site; addresses at the end of this issue. ********************************* IBRA STRIKES GOLD AGAIN ********************************* The international congress was the 34th in the series, and was organized by Swiss beekeeper associations on behalf of the international federation of beekeepers' associations (commonly known as Apimondia). And one of the practices at such meetings is to have competitions, recognising quality in beekeeping publications and equipment. IBRA's two entries both won medals in the category for instructional material. 'A colour guide to the pollen loads of the honey bee' by William Kirk took the only gold medal for this type of entry. We've been pleased with this book ever since it was published last year (and before that too!), and high sales have proved its popularity with beekeepers everywhere. This exciting and practical manual contains over 500 colour samples, and describes (in English, French and German) the pollens of 268 species. While these are all European species, many are common in other parts of the world. It builds on Dorothy Hodges' classic work, but goes far beyond it in the number of species covered and the accuracy achieved with modern printing processes. The other medal was the bronze, awarded to 'New perspectives on varroa' which I edited. The chapters in this book (also published last year), give a wide-ranging look at varroa in Europe. Four review papers look at important issues, while 25 papers in five sections review current research on this parasite. Many techniques and issues thought elsewhere to be new are more well known in Europe, and are described in this book. Both titles are, of course, available from IBRA. ****************************** WHAT DO I MEAN AGAIN? ****************************** Two years ago at the 33rd congress, in Beijing, IBRA took the only gold medal for journals with our entry the Journal of Apicultural Research. This journal had been radically revamped and improved, and we are still continuing to provide a quality service for researchers. This journal is an excellent window into current bee science. Read the story of the journal's rebirth on our web pages, where you can also get guidelines for authors and a reference style sheet. *********************** OH YES, THE WEB *********************** Well I keep talking about the web, and that's because we recently launched stage two of our world wide web site. The site is now several times larger than before. We have a list of all the journals currently going into our library (which is most of the ones in the world), as well as notes about how to search our library and order reprints. There's links to other sites that our readers might find interesting (who's offering to make us a flagon of mead?). You can find out the details of all our journals, learn about new books available, and even register for our next conference. Come and visit us, at http://www.cardiff.ac.uk/ibra/index.html. There's at least two more stages to go, so watch out for further developments. ******************************** LAST CALL FOR BUMBLES ******************************** Don't forget IBRA's next symposium, 'Bumble bees for pleasure and profit'. This will be a fun and informative day, so whether you can bring along a tomato grower, a school teacher or someone who wants to have a bumble bee colony at home, be sure to be in London on 23 September. There probably will be some tickets available at the door (though obviously I can't guarantee it); be at the Linnean Society rooms in Burlington House, Piccadilly, between 0945 and 1015. If you want lunch you'll have to register with us by 8 September. We have interesting speakers from Norway, the Netherlands and the UK ... see you there! ********************************************* AND OUR MOST RECENT SYMPOSIUM ********************************************* As a contribution to the international congress in Lausanne IBRA organized a symposium on 'World trade in bees and bee products'. I wanted to generate sound debate on some important issues affecting beekeepers everywhere. We reviewed patterns in honey production and trade; developments in the past month or two are good news for beekeepers, but this paper highlighted the need for better collection of statistical information. We learnt of the successes that can be obtained by niche marketing of bee products - all bee products, and not only honey. We also learnt of the need to be flexible and responsive to changing conditions (and for that you have to be well informed); especially in the trade in live bees. At the symposium we also looked at more global issues; the help provided by the International Trade Commission for exporting from developing countries, and the effect of moving to market economies in countries formerly under central control. The meeting also heard some hard-hitting references to new agreements governing world trade. The global environment on trade issues is changing, and as an industry we need to take account of that. Read on under 'Trade barriers' to find out more. I am pleased to acknowledge the financial support for IBRA's symposium from the British Honey Importers and Packers Association. *********************** TRADE BARRIERS *********************** In an ideal world trade is between two partners: a willing buyer and a willing seller, who should proceed unhindered. And this does occur more or less inside a country or within a trading bloc. However, our world is not ideal and barriers are put up which hinder trade between otherwise willing parties. Often these trade barriers are dressed up with science to make them look respectable, but in fact are there to give unfair advantage to one part of the community over another. The new round of Gatt, the General Agreement on Tariffs and Trade, and the new World Trade Organization are designed to break down protective barriers so trade can proceed more freely. It is not the intent of Gatt or the World Trade Organization to allow countries to replace one set of barriers (such as tariffs or unjustifiable Zoosanitary requirements) with even more undesirable barriers based on quality or sanitary measures. Our challenge is to encourage all governments to abide by the spirit of Gatt. We should support them, and appropriate international organizations, to develop technical guidelines and databases to allow sound decision making. We should encourage all signatories to Gatt to incorporate scientifically sound standards and conditions into their trading requirements. Whether we are consumers or producers, we are all entitled to a level playing field. E.mail: ibra@cardiff.ac.uk Fax: (+44) 1222-665522 Telephone: (+44) 1222-372409 Snailmail: 18 North Road, Cardiff CF1 3DY, UK World Wide Web: http://www.cardiff.ac.uk/ibra/index.html ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 1 Sep 1995 14:38:08 GMT+0100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "MORGAN, ANTHONY" Subject: Re: paraffin Hei, just to add my two pennyworth, I had vague memories of liquid paraffin from my childhood (not good memories) so I looked it up to check out what it is. Liquid paraffin is a liquid form of petroleum jelly (petrolatum) and if taken internally is mildly laxative (that is what I remembered!). It is thickish, oily, transparent and supposedly tasteless (but dont bet on it!) I vaguely remember that when I was a kid we used it as a dandruff remedy as well as a laxative, or was that something else? Paraffin (oil) is kerosene. Paraffin wax is a white wax derivative of petroleum although it is sythesised as well. Used for candles, polishes, cosmetics, waxed paper and waxed cloth. Paraffins are saturated hydrocarbons with the general formula C(n)H(2n+2) according to my source. If one needs an oily base for a cream or lotion why not use olive oil for example? --------------------------------------------------------------- Anthony N. Morgan (Tony) Fax: +47 73 89 62 86 "Stavshagen" E-mail: anthony@iet.hist.no Midtsandan Sor-Trondelag College 7563 MALVIK Elec. Eng. Department Norway 7005 TRONDHEIM, Norway ---------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 1 Sep 1995 09:01:12 CST Reply-To: mbristow@palomo.chillan.udec.cl Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Marion L.Bristow" Subject: Re: parraffin How we got from bees to fur balls ... I don't know , however , being a cat loving type person ( and working around a lot of vet!s ) I can recommend mineral or castor oil . Kitty dosen't think to highly of it ( scratch city ) but it works on the small ones . For large fur balls .... Surgical intervention !!! . Marion L.Bristow - Jefe , Seccion Informatica Agriculture Sciences Campus Universidad de Concepcion , Campus Chillan Casilla 537 Chillan , Chile e-mail: mbristow@palomo.chillan.udec.cl ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 1 Sep 1995 14:15:00 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Lomer, Christopher" Hello all! A note from The International Institute of Tropical Agriculture, Biological Control Center for Africa, Benin, W. Africa! I am doing research of the affect, on bees, of a fungus (Metarhizium flavoviride) used as a biological control agent against grasshoppers and locusts in Africa. The bee species is Apis Mellifera adansonii, the species found in West Africa. Please forward any information. Thanx in advance. Patrick. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 1 Sep 1995 09:48:20 CST6CDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Rodney L. Holloway" Organization: Ag. and Environmental Safety Subject: Re: Sevin XLR Comments: cc: "PHILIP J. HAMMAN" > From: Brian Tassey > Subject: Re: Sevin XLR > Rodney, > What I know is that it is not as lethal as the other formulations of Sevin. > It's LD50 is 26.5 where the LD50 for Sevin SL is 13.7. It's residual > toxicity to honey bee populations in cage tests is less time depending on > rates (hours as opposed to days). All in all though it is still belongs in a > class that is highly toxic and if it's possible to avoid I'd do it. I've > never sat through a spray job using the material the growers have opted for To Brian Tassey, Thanks for the response. We had one of our largest Texas beekeepers call Wednesday saying that a farmer had notified him of plans to apply sevin XLR near one of his bee yards. The applicator had told him XLR was not as toxic as "regular Sevin". Upon reviewing the XLR label there is wording indicating a reduced XLR toxicity to bees. However Sevin XLR is toxic to bees. Compounding the problem was that the beekeeper was not going to be able to get a truck to his yard in time to move the bees before the application. If the bees do not come in contact with the XLR either through direct application or drift then bee loss should be minimal. I believe they decided to treat in late afternoon, cover the bees for a day and hope for the best. There were several things in the beekeeper's favour: the XLR application would be to grass which would probably have very few if any visiting bees and the field to be treated was about 1/4 mile from the bee yard. Thanks again for your help. Rodney Holloway ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 1 Sep 1995 11:17:11 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: MEMO 1995/09/01 11:17:19 From: Mihaly Ligmond Subject: Liquid Paraffin According to the Merck Index 11th Ed. Monograph 7139, liquid paraffin has several synonyms: Liquid Petrolatum, Mineral Oil, White Mineral Oil, Paraffin Oil. It is a mixture of liquid hydrocarbons from petroleum. It is described as a colorless, oily liquid; practically tasteless and odorless even when warmed. Density of the "light liquid" is given as .83-.860, the "heavy" as .875-.905. I hope this helps answer any questions on this issue. Mihaly S Ligmond. (mligmond@fdaem.ssw.dhhs.gov) ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 1 Sep 1995 08:15:41 +0000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Keith Hooker Organization: Technology Management Ltd Subject: Re: Sevin XLR >What I know is that it is not as lethal as the other formulations of Sevin. After many years in fruit growing and beekeeping my observations are that with Sevin, all formulations are dangerous. While there may be LD figures quoted what is seldom if ever disclosed is the effect on the brood. All colonies I have come in contact with that have been killed or severly damaged by Sevin have had problems with the brood and I put this down to the flying bees contacting a sub lethal dose and carrying the chemical back to the hive on pollen then feeding it to the larva which subsequently die. The effect can last for a season or more ie as long as the contaminated pollen is stored in the hive. Ban it.. Keith >>> Keith JM Hooker <<< >>> Technology Management Ltd <<< >>> WHITSTABLE Kent CT5 4ED UK <<< ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 1 Sep 1995 12:05:16 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: JOHN IANNUZZI Subject: PollenType Bis Friends, 1. Thanks to the 5 who replied to my query about yellow/orangish pollen being harvested now. 2. Thru close visual inspec- tion w/ honeybees on the tiny tiny tiny yellow flowers and pollen in their "baskets," I've concluded that it is 3. Of all plants, R A G W E E D! 4. This doubtin' Thomas would have never Beelieved it! Otra vez, muchas gracias. Jack the B-man ******************************* John Iannuzzi PhD * Howard Honey Farms RR8 * 9772 Old Annapolis Rd * Ellicott City (founded 1772) * Maryland usa 21042 * ******************************* ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 1 Sep 1995 09:14:20 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: John Day Subject: handlotion hi there, well, now that everyone seems to have beaten the issue of what's liquid paraffin to death, howz 'bout a receipe for the lotion? i haven't seen one posted since "parrifingate" started. john ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 1 Sep 1995 11:29:57 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Liz Day Subject: Re: Liquid Paraffin Mineral oil (now that I know what they're talking about!) is cheap and easily avail here in the U.S. It makes sense, since many drugstore hand lotions are based on it. Liz Day LDAY@indy.net Pink Inchworm Ranch Indianapolis, Indiana, central USA ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 1 Sep 1995 11:37:22 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Liz Day Subject: the recipe here is the recipe Dr. Satterfield sent: Formula for Hand Lotion which uses Beeswax >From Eva Crane's "Bees and Beekeeping..." p. 437 By weight: (on a scale? I don't have one..) Beeswax 18% (The infamous Liquid Paraffin, i.e., mineral oil) 61% Distilled Water 20% Borax 1% Beeswax and mineral oil are heated together to about 70C until the beeswax is just melted. Blend together. Dissolve borax in water and heat to same temperature. Blend mixtures together with rapid stirring. Fill jars when mixture has cooled to 42C. One of the bee women at the fair said to use a double boiler to heat them in. If I fill my mother's double boiler with wax, I'll have many problems that can't be fixed with hand lotion!! Liz Day LDAY@indy.net Pink Inchworm Ranch Indianapolis, Indiana, central USA ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 1 Sep 1995 12:57:31 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Dave Green, Eastern Pollinator Newsletter" Subject: Re: Sevin XLR - bees have legal right of way. In a message dated 95-08-31 09:51:13 EDT, you write: >Subj: Sevin XLR >Date: 95-08-31 09:51:13 EDT >From: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU >To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU > >From: RODNEYH@AES.TAMU.EDU (Rodney L. Holloway) >Sender: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU (Discussion of Bee Biology) >Reply-to: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU (Discussion of Bee Biology) >To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU (Multiple recipients of list BEE-L) >Anyone have information on Sevin XLR and effect on honey bees. > >Rodney Holloway Sevin, in any formulation is highly toxic to honeybees under the right circumstances. There are two critical things that need to be addressed, in protecting bees from applications. 1. Is there bloom in the application area that is attractive to bees. If not, there is no need to worry. Bees will not be present in the area, and will not contact the poison. Application is safe and legal, as far as bees are concerned. 2. If there is bloom, that is attractive to bees, then the label is the key to protection. Remember that the labels give legal protection to the bees AS THEY FORAGE, the location of the hives is irrelevant. There are two types of labels for materials that are toxic to bees; you need to get a copy immediately. I do not have a copy handy, so I can only speak generally. One type indicates toxicity by direct contact only; there is no significant residual effect. This kind is safe (and legal) to use with some kind of monitoring to make sure that no bees are foraging AT THE TIME OF APPLICATION. The second type of label direction (I suspect that this formulation is the second) also indicates toxicity by residual effect. If there is bloom attractive to bees, and the residual effect is longer than 12 hours, it cannot be used upon that bloom. It is necessary to remove the bloom if it is, say clover or mustard in an orchard floor, wait for the end of bloom, or switch to a less residual material. You should be aware that the label directions clearly make the applicator responsible. The beekeeper cannot run to *protect* the bees in each situation where a pesticide is used. This will bankrupt beekeepers, and this offers no protection to wild solitary bees, bumble bees, and honeybees that have no human defender. The label, if it is followed, will protect them all. If your applicator is in violation of the label directions, he can be prosecuted (and should be); he is destroying a vital environmental resource. Please don't cave in to let the grower violate. No bees are safe anywhere, as long as applicators violate the law. It is not the beekeeper's responsibility and you will not always be notified. Applicators that demand that you protect the bees, are declaring their intention to apply in violation. WILLFUL misuse is a CRIMINAL violation. Pollinator@aol.com Dave Green PO Box 1215, Hemingway, SC 29554 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 1 Sep 1995 13:05:02 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Dave Green, Eastern Pollinator Newsletter" Subject: Re: the recipe >Subj: the recipe >Date: 95-09-01 12:43:13 EDT >From: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU >To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU > >From: lday@INDY.NET (Liz Day) >Sender: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU (Discussion of Bee Biology) >Reply-to: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU (Discussion of Bee Biology) >To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU (Multiple recipients of list BEE-L) >here is the recipe Dr. Satterfield sent: (snip) > >One of the bee women at the fair said to use a double boiler >to heat them in. If I fill my mother's double boiler with wax, >I'll have many problems that can't be fixed with hand lotion!! > If you don't use some sort of double boiler, a moment's inattention could get you a very warm kitchen. I had some close calls in heating wax for candle making. Suddenly the wax froths up and onto the burner, where it catches fire and burns almost explosively. Some kind of double boiler arrangement is vital. Can't you find something cheap at a yard sale? Pollinator@aol.com Dave Green PO Box 1215, Hemingway, SC 29554 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 1 Sep 1995 07:47:49 -1000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Thomas W. Culliney -- Dept. of Agriculture" Subject: Re: Honeybee comb building In-Reply-To: On Thu, 31 Aug 1995, Gordon Scott wrote: > Throw a handfull of matching sized ballbearings into a > tray and look at the pattern that naturally results. > > Consider that nature likes efficiency. > > Put your hand on your heart, look me straight in the virtual > eye, and tell me that nature isn't just being efficient here! > > BTW, Social wasp's nests have a similar hexagonal pattern. I can't remember where I learned it, but, just as Gordon Scott indicates, the hexagon appears to be the most efficient shape for packing the greatest number of units (in this case, cells) into a given area. Nature, at least non-human nature, does seem to abhor inefficiency. Tom Culliney culliney@elele.peacesat.hawaii.edu ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 1 Sep 1995 15:11:48 EDT Reply-To: "Glen B. Glater" Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Glen B. Glater" Subject: Filtering honey during extraction Hello fellow Bee-listers: As we come up on extraction time in New England, we are looking for ways to improve our system. We have 3 hives that we will be extracting approx 200-250 lbs of honey from. The time limiting function in the whole process is always the filtering of the honey. Typically, we don't heat our honey (not wanting to effect it) and we filter it thru nylon stockings to get all of the impurities out. My question to you all: Is there a more efficient but equally effective way to filter our honey that will speed the process up? Please let me know. Thanks. --glen ************************************************************** Midnight Networks Inc. * 200 Fifth Avenue * Waltham, MA 02154 Glen B. Glater Principal, Strategic Networking Group Phone: (617) 890-1001 Fax: (617) 890-0028 Internet: glen@midnight.com The Best in Network Software ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 1 Sep 1995 18:13:12 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Brian K. Cooley" Subject: Re: Liz's hand lotion In-Reply-To: <950831221009_68421542@mail04.mail.aol.com> Another thing to think about with kerosene. Auto mechanics have a high degree of skin cancer on their hands which is assumed to come from rinsing their hands in petroleum products (I know what doesn't cause cancer anymore). Just passing along the warning. Brian K. Cooley Environmental Consulting & Biological Services 1899 El Centro Drive Columbia, Missouri 65201 email: bcooley@mail.coin.missouri.edu phone: 314-474-3941 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 2 Sep 1995 13:21:54 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Timothy S. Sterrett" Subject: beeswax lotion and filtering extracted honey Beeswax Handlotion: Beeswax cosmetics can be heated and melted (in disposable glassware) in a microwave oven. I do not know whether a microwave oven would eventually ignite the wax and oil. I assume it could, so be careful. Filtering honey during extraction: Use a plastic trash can with a plastic honey gate at the bottom as a holding tank. Fit the top of the trash can with a platform on which a five-gallon plastic bucket (with plastic honey gate) can sit and drain into the holding tank. Honey drains through a hole in the platform into a nylon net bag (used for washing delicate fabrics in a clothes washer) which holds the nylon stocking filter and keeps the filter from sagging into the bottom of the tank. The holding tank is set on a platform high enough so that the gate at the bottom of the tank can be used to bottle honey and low enough so that someone can hoist the five-gallon bucket and transfer honey from the extractor to the tank. (A platform three hive bodies high works.) The five-gallon bucket can be marked on the outside to show one-two-three-four gallons and a measured amount can be moved each trip from the extractor to the holding tank. The size of the crop can be measured this way. Three gallons of honey is easier to lift to the top of the holding tank than five. If the platform on the top of the holding tank is made flush with the rim of the tank and made to fit under the lid, the lid can be used to keep bees from showing up early the next morning to reclaim their honey. Tim Sterrett Westtown, Pennsylvania, USA tss@locke.ccil.org ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 2 Sep 1995 13:23:31 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Don Miller Subject: Re: Stings MY COLLEAGUES INDICATED THAT A TV SPECIAL WAS AIRED SEVERAL WEEKS AGO. ANYONE HAVING INFO, PLEASE RESPOND. D. MILLER ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 2 Sep 1995 22:25:00 GMT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Andy Nachbaur Organization: WILD BEE'S BBS (209) 826-8107 LOS BANOS, CA Subject: "BEE SCIENCE" FEB. 1995 vol3 #4 ---------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------- "BeeScience" Feb. 1995 vol.3 #4 Published by Wicwas Press P.O. Box 817 Cheshire, CT 06410 Phone & Fax 203-250-7575 E-Mail ljconnor@aol.com Subscription USA $25. non-USA Address $30. Hello All who may read this post! I have found the "BEE SCIENCE" a good way to keep up on some of the scientific papers and abstracts not published in other journals. Not because they are not worthy but because there is just more then all the bee journals can accommodate, and unless you have active academic contacts with-in the bee science community it is impossible to follow what is being done in a timely manner. The subscription brings you 4 issues and depending on what is going on may cover more then a year. I never have figured out Larry Connor's billing system, so if you are interested just send him the $25., you will get your monies worth of Bee Science. This is not a how to keep bee's publication, mostly scientific papers, abstracts, and views of us beekeeper's for academic and research science perspectives. (We are not all the same.) I found issue #4, the last issue of volume 3 to contain several papers and abstracts that I was interested in. One was a paper dealing with the "grease patties" that go in and out of favor with beekeepers every 10 years or so. Right now in this area they are being used because beekeepers believe they help reduce the number of varroa mites. According to this paper on work done here in California this is not true. That is not to say that grease patties are not good for other uses such as giving drugs, increasing brood rearing, and the effect it may have on the "T" mites. Several abstract's from the Ninth Research Conference really caught my eye on Afrikaner Bees. One was about a talk or paper give by Dr. Ferro of Mexico City, one of the most densely populated places in the world and how since 1986 when these Brazilian Killer's arrived in Mexico, his Mexico City has only had one death from them. His objective (job?) has been to protect the honey industry and at the same time protect human health from sting's from honey bees. He must be doing a good Job! Anyway the abstract goes on to report on the many places swarms have been found and eliminated, one of note was 100 holes (swarms) in a one church. Must have been a big church or a cathedral or something. Another abstract or note on the conference was of DNA work, (same as done in OJ's trial), was done on the Africanized honey bees found in Tucson and Southern Arizona by Gerry Loper and others during 1993-94. Considering the first Afro bee's were only found in June 1993 by fall of 1994,...(wouldn't you know it) "All of southern Arizona has been infested, including Indian reservation land." (look out California beekeeper's the time is near, we're next) I have no doubts of this myself as I am very familiar with the very productive bee's in this area of the state myself. I can agree with the results but not the invasion theory. The DNA work was done on 27 hives, 50 percent were Afro, and 5 more showed conditional, (whatever that is), Africanization. (Look out the Juice is going to be loose.) One conference report on AFB and Afro bee's showed that they are less able to uncap dead brood then European bees in Costa Rica. Another paper showed that in Texas bee's normally moved in to an area to pollinate melon's diluted the local Afro drone population from 38-40% to 2.7-9% after the pollination bee's were moved in. Test's on the resulting progeny appeared to be very European, (which is no surprise to this old drone at all). Maybe the most interesting abstract was by one William Remires-B, of the University of Costa Rica who since 1986 has collected 400 Afro swarms at his home with only "ONE" sting. These swarms arrive in January through April with the peak in March, (very similar to some California coastal locations). He also say's he believes these Afro bee's need big brood rearing areas, and manages his colonies with large brood areas to reduce swarming, also reports Afro invasions are rare, and he has only seen one. Well no doubt some will say my review had made "Bee Science" look like the "STAR" check out stand fish wrapper, it is not, and a worthwhile addition of a high quality scientific journal for anyone with $25 bucks that want's to know what's going on in the beekeeping research world as opposed to real life among the bee's. ttul Andy- (c)Permission to reproduce, granted. Opinions are not necessarily facts. Free advice is the most expensive. --- ~ Wild Bee's BBS, a HONEY of a BBS (209) 826-8107 --- ~ QMPro 1.53 ~ Honey Lovers Stick Together ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 3 Sep 1995 09:35:19 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: William Lund Subject: Effect on Native Bees Has anyone made a study of the effect on native bees, when honey bees, which are an exotic species, are introduced into an area? Specific references would be appreciated. Thanks. William Lund ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 3 Sep 1995 21:35:38 +0100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Gordon Scott Subject: Re: paraffin In-Reply-To: On Fri, 1 Sep 1995, MORGAN, ANTHONY wrote: > just to add my two pennyworth, I had vague memories of liquid > paraffin from my childhood (not good memories) so I looked it up to > check out what it is. Tony's description sounds good. I'm pretty certain that 'liquid paraffin' is _not_ kerosene. In Britain I think we are too liberal with the term 'paraffin', it's confusing enough for us, never mind the language barrier :-). It's described in my dictionary as "an intestinal lubricant and laxative", It's colourless and a rather viscous oily consistency. Try describing that to a pharmacist and see if you get a reaction. Hope that helps a little, regards, -- Gordon Scott gordon@apis.demon.co.uk CompuServe 100332,3310 gordon@multitone.co.uk CompuServe 100070,413 Beekeeper; Kendo 3rd Dan; Sometime sailor. The Basingstoke Beekeeper (newsletter) beekeeper@apis.demon.co.uk ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 3 Sep 1995 17:48:19 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Larry Farris Subject: Cleaning PermaDent Foundation Have any users of Permadent foundation found a successful way to clean the old foundation (especially that which has been used for brood nest area) in order to reuse the foundation anew? I am looking for a description of a way in which to clean the foundation without causing damage to it. Please do not suggest a solar wax melter or hot lye water - both of these methods do not work (they are much too hot for the plastic molded core). Please respond on the list or to me at: Dallas, Tx ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 3 Sep 1995 19:10:02 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Doug Yanega Subject: Re: Effect on Native Bees >Has anyone made a study of the effect on native bees, when honey bees, which >are an exotic species, are introduced into an area? Specific references >would be appreciated. Thanks. Depends on whether you mean African bees or the domestic European strains (sounds like I'm doing my Monty Python routine) - in the former case, Dave Roubik has published some work on competition between African Apis and native stingless bees in Central America. For the latter case, I know of nothing. I think Apis was imported too long ago for there to be anywhere in North America which hasn't had European Apis around in our lifetimes. Doug Yanega Illinois Natural History Survey, 607 E. Peabody Dr. Champaign, IL 61820 USA phone (217) 244-6817, fax (217) 333-4949 "There are some enterprises in which a careful disorderliness is the true method" - Herman Melville, Moby Dick, Chap. 82 ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 3 Sep 1995 21:01:56 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Mark Gaddy Subject: Extremly mean Bees I am a beekeeper of Central Texas, I currently have 10 hives by the end of Monday I would like to have only 9. I've been keeping bees for 5 years now, but been interested for 20. My problem started with a mid summer swarm, which I wouldn't have caught except it landed at the place I work. I joined it with a weakening spring swarm I had caught months before. I joined them after first killing the first queen. Now about 2 months later the population has exploded to very stong hive.Two weeks ago I went into this and other hives, unfortunatly without smoke( it went out and I didn't have a match), and this was the only hot hive. Last week I went in at early evening, still about 2 hours of light, and again the hive was hot and the others not. Today, I was pulling the last of the crop, which has been very good, most of the hives didn't even notice I was there, but this same colony was all over me. It must have followed me 300+ yards. I very seriously doubt that it is Africanized, but not willing to take a chance. After all this my question is, what is the quickest, safest, and most redily available way to exterminate this colony, without destroying the equipment. I have thought about burning some sulfur in my smoker, but I know it is very dangerous. So what do yall( told you I was from Texas) think I should do about this colony??? Mark ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 3 Sep 1995 21:43:51 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Dean Warsing Subject: raccoons hello,i'm new to the list and new to beekeeping.....i;m worryed about raccoons raiding my hives...should i be? ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 3 Sep 1995 23:07:59 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Liz Day Subject: Re: Effect on Native Bees I think there may have been studies in England. I'll look at my files (not that that guarantees anything) in a day or so. Liz Day LDAY@indy.net Indianapolis, Indiana, central USA ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 4 Sep 1995 13:05:26 GMT+0100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "MORGAN, ANTHONY" Subject: Re: Honeybee comb building Gordon Scott wrote > Well, I'm a beekeeper and an engineer, so I guess I could > venture an unreferenced opinion ;-) > > Throw a handfull of matching sized ballbearings into a > tray and look at the pattern that naturally results. > > Consider that nature likes efficiency. > > Put your hand on your heart, look me straight in the virtual > eye, and tell me that nature isn't just being efficient here! Hei! I'm also an engineer by profession and my thoughts are the same as Gordon's. I have been using an empty frame in the brood chamber as a "swarm barometer" and so have reasonable quantities of new comb built without foundation, that is the bees were not given any pattern to work too. Upon examination of this comb I saw something interesting---- First, imagine an array of geometrically perfect hexagonal cells where each cell wall has constant thickness. Second, imagine an array of cylindrical cells packed together in the same way as Gordon's ball bearings..... My comb did *not* match either pattern, it was somewhere between the two ie. nearly hexagonal but with the edges of each hexagon weakly curved so that the cell walls were not of constant thickness This to me indicates that Gordon's "theory" is probably right and the "geometric" hexagons are a function of our way of looking at and thinking about comb and actually result from the distortion of tightly packed cylinders caused by economic use of wax for the cell walls! Why the bees obey the law that nature likes efficiency is of course another matter! Cheers Tony. --------------------------------------------------------------- Anthony N. Morgan (Tony) Fax: +47 73 89 62 86 "Stavshagen" E-mail: anthony@iet.hist.no Midtsandan Sor-Trondelag College 7563 MALVIK Elec. Eng. Department Norway 7005 TRONDHEIM, Norway ---------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 4 Sep 1995 15:57:43 GMT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Steve Pearce Subject: Heather honey Steve, it appears that liquid paraffin is "mineral oil" in the USA, and indeed it is used for "intestinal irregularities". We haven't given it to our cat, but we have used a dollop of margarine or butter occasionally. Hope you're having a good year in Scotland. We've enjoyed a couple of holidays there...stayed in B&B's...rode the train exclusively...Pitlochary, Fort William, Arrochar..lots of hiking...Beautiful! We still maintain contact with a friend in Crief. Do you have bees and get heather honey? I've read of the "destructive extraction" of heather honey...seems quite different from other honeys. Catch you later. Hi Jim, I thought I would share our communication with the others, it also carries on with another pet-bee connection! Yes, we do get Heather honey,in Kilspindie, Perthshire, which is 5 miles from Perth (about 15 miles from Crieff), and my out Apiary which is in the hills to the North. The problem with Heather honey, is it sets like jelly, and traditionally they have pressed it out, which destroys the combs. The other way is to use a gadget which is like a paint roller with fine spikes on it, which loosens up the honey enough to be spun out. I was going to get one of these, as I thought it was a great idea, until my local supplier told me it was about #75, which must be about $90. I have found that a dog hair brush (new one!) with metal spines #2.50, works fine, but I only had 3 supers to do, and I was getting tired (going nuts) at the end of the session. The heather honey is really good, I would trade, all my honey for the rest of the year, for just a few jars of this stuff. My questions are:- are these rollers as expensive everywhere else in the world? or are we Scottish beekeepers being ripped off?. Also has anyone any other (cheap) ways of loosening Heather honey from the combs. Steve Pearce Kilspindie Perthshire Scotland ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 4 Sep 1995 16:07:07 GMT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Steve Pearce Subject: Killing mean bees Hi Mark, If you can't get near them to requeen then killing them is an option. Our black bees can be quite vicious, and I have been tempted on several occasions, but only killed one lot which were bad tempered, and very queenless. On killing bees, I have found that 500ml (1pint) of ethanol (Vodka) in the top of the hive, then plug it up, kills them all very quickly. You can then air the frames, and they are as good as new. This does not happen with petrol (gasoline) where no matter how long you air anything it stinks for years. Do not use anytihng with Methanol in it, Vodka is food grade and more expensive but safer. I hope this is of some help. Steve Pearce Kilspindie Perthshire Scotland ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 4 Sep 1995 10:50:32 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Larry Farris Subject: Re: Extremly mean Bees >I am a beekeeper of Central Texas, I currently have 10 hives by the end of >Monday I would like to have only 9. I've been keeping bees for 5 years now, >So what do yall( told you I was from Texas) think I should do >about this colony??? > Mark, You and I have about the same years of experience with bees. I'm just north of Dallas (Allen, TX). I'm the treasurer for Collin County Beekeepers club; do you belong to any of the Texas clubs? (I used to live in Austin). I would tell you to look at Steve Pearce's note about killing bees (the use of Vodka). It seems reasonable to me (but I have never tried this). However, let me tell you our ways up here; the use of "soapy water" (i.e., dishwashing liquid soap, like 'Dawn') This technique smothers them. It involves spraying them and they can't breath so after a little while, they die. You could spray inside the hive w/o causing damage to the hive parts but better than this would probably be to "chase" them outside the hive with "Bee-go" and then spray them. We use a plastic (quart or so)spray bottle with one of those spray trigger heads. Also when you spray them, since they're wet, they can't fly (but spray fast!) Good Luck to ya - drop me a note sometime. I once had a VERY hot hive from wild bees! But you are in the "killer bee" area, are you not? My best to ya -Larry Farris ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 4 Sep 1995 11:21:30 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Larry Farris Subject: A response meant for only Mark Gaddy My appologies to the list; the response should have been marked for Mark Gaddy only, not the entire list. New software (hit the wrong button....what can I say?) :::::grin::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 4 Sep 1995 12:55:05 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: JOHN IANNUZZI Subject: Re: Heather honey > Steve, it appears that liquid paraffin is "mineral oil" in the USA, and > indeed it is used for "intestinal irregularities". We haven't given it > to our cat, but we have used a dollop of margarine or butter > occasionally. > > Hope you're having a good year in Scotland. We've enjoyed a couple of > holidays there...stayed in B&B's...rode the train > exclusively...Pitlochary, Fort William, Arrochar..lots of > hiking...Beautiful! > We still maintain contact with a friend in Crief. > > Do you have bees and get heather honey? I've read of the > "destructive extraction" of heather > honey...seems quite different from other honeys. > > Catch you later. > > Hi Jim, I thought I would share our communication with the others, > it also carries on with another pet-bee connection! > > > Yes, we do get Heather honey,in Kilspindie, Perthshire, which is 5 miles > from Perth (about 15 miles from Crieff), and my out Apiary which is in > the hills to the North. > > The problem with Heather honey, is it sets like jelly, and traditionally > they have pressed it out, which destroys the combs. The other way is to > use a gadget which is like a paint roller with fine spikes on it, which > loosens up the honey enough to be spun out. I was going to get one of > these, as I thought it was a great idea, until my local supplier told me > it was about #75, which must be about $90. > > I have found that a dog hair brush (new one!) with metal spines #2.50, > works fine, but I only had 3 supers to do, and I was getting tired > (going nuts) at the end of the session. The heather honey is really > good, I would trade, all my honey for the rest of the year, for just a > few jars of this stuff. > > My questions are:- > are these rollers as expensive everywhere else in the world? or are we > Scottish beekeepers being ripped off?. > Also has anyone any other (cheap) ways of loosening Heather honey from > the combs. > > > Steve Pearce > > Kilspindie > Perthshire > Scotland > Hi, 1. Back again. Greetings from Ellicott City MD usa (founded 1772 but not as young (ha, ha) as Dundee> 2. The Hackler Honey Punch might B what U R looking for. Comes in 5 diff sizes: 2" to 8", $25-50, plus $2.50 per unit shipping. 3. Plastools 404 - 20th St Bellingham WA 98225 360/676-9869 4. Looks like paint roller w/spurs. 5. Have never used one. 6. Want me to order U one? 7. Source: ABJ, Jul 95, p. 479. Ad appears every month. 8. I have heather honey I picked up from Bro Adam at Buckfast Abbey in 1985. 9. It's part of my collection of honey from all 50 U.S plus more than 40 foreign countries comprising over 350 floral sources. It's now very very dark. Others would say "black." Cheers. Jack the B-man ******************************* John Iannuzzi PhD * Howard Honey Farms RR8 * 9772 Old Annapolis Rd * Ellicott City (founded 1772) * Maryland usa 21042 * ******************************* ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 4 Sep 1995 13:14:40 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: JOHN IANNUZZI Subject: Re: Cleaning PermaDent Foundation Comments: To: jr0002@epfl2.epflbalto.org > Have any users of Permadent foundation found a successful way to clean the > old foundation (especially that which has been used for brood nest area) in > order to reuse the foundation anew? I am looking for a description of a way > in which to clean the foundation without causing damage to it. Please do > not suggest a solar wax melter or hot lye water - both of these methods do > not work (they are much too hot for the plastic molded core). Please > respond on the list or to me at: Dallas, Tx > Hello, 1. Am eagerly awaiting a reply since I have the same problem. 2. Two such frames have been soaking in a five-gallon pail of water, periodically changed, since March (after freeezing weather ended). 3. Dark black scales seem to dislodge one at a time. I think it'll take at least 100 years for my process to work. 4. A cc of this message is being sent my B-buddy three miles away who is strictly into Piercos (I'm not!!!!). 5. He has never given me a satisfactory reply. Ciao. Jack the B-man ******************************* John Iannuzzi PhD * Howard Honey Farms RR8 * 9772 Old Annapolis Rd * Ellicott City (founded 1772) * Maryland usa 21042 * ******************************* ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 4 Sep 1995 17:51:39 +0100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Gordon Scott Subject: Furniture cream -- a dilema. Hi all, Amongst the produce we sell on our Association stall is a beeswax polish, which is a fairly popular line. However, some people ask for a 'cream' rather than a polish. All the recipes I see for these creams use soft-soap as an ingredient, however I personally will not use this as I'm a vegetarian for moral reasons. (That gives me occasional problems beekeeping, too, but I am at least also a realist). Question -- does anyone have a recipe for a funiture cream that does *not* use an animal produce requiring its death or needless distress? Here's hoping, TIA, regards, -- Gordon Scott gordon@apis.demon.co.uk CompuServe 100332,3310 gordon@multitone.co.uk CompuServe 100070,413 Beekeeper; Kendo 3rd Dan; Sometime sailor. The Basingstoke Beekeeper (newsletter) beekeeper@apis.demon.co.uk ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 4 Sep 1995 13:31:27 +0000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Allen Dick Organization: The Beekeepers Subject: Re: Cleaning PermaDent Foundation > Have any users of Permadent foundation found a successful way to clean the > old foundation (especially that which has been used for brood nest area) in > order to reuse the foundation anew? I am looking for a description of a way > in which to clean the foundation without causing damage to it. I believe that Jean-Pierre chapleau indicated that when frozen, the combs could be readily stripped, as the comb disengaeges from the foundation with a little flexing. Perhaps he will elaborate on this. I haven't heard from him lately. I imagine like many beekeepers he is pretty busy right now. Regards Allen W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper VE6CFK Rural Route One, Swalwell, Alberta Canada T0M 1Y0 Honey. Bees, Art, & Futures ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 4 Sep 1995 17:37:02 +0100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Gordon Scott Subject: Re: Heather honey In-Reply-To: <125C0B797708@bad.dundee.ac.uk> On Mon, 4 Sep 1995, Steve Pearce wrote: > The problem with Heather honey, is it sets like jelly, and traditionally > they have pressed it out, which destroys the combs. The other way is to > use a gadget which is like a paint roller with fine spikes on it, which > loosens up the honey enough to be spun out. Hi, I guess there are lots of people out there who don't get heather honey, as it's usually only available in limited ares. It's strange stuff. It has a smokey/peaty kind of flavour, reminiscent of many malt whiskys. Not everyone's favourite flavour, but I think some people would kill for it. Heather honey is thixotropic, which means it behaves like non-drip paint. It's naturally a gel, but if you stir it up, for example with that wire roller, it turns to a liquid for a while and can then be extracted in a normal extractor. It turns back to a gel a little later. Regards, -- Gordon Scott gordon@apis.demon.co.uk CompuServe 100332,3310 gordon@multitone.co.uk CompuServe 100070,413 Beekeeper; Kendo 3rd Dan; Sometime sailor. The Basingstoke Beekeeper (newsletter) beekeeper@apis.demon.co.uk ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 4 Sep 1995 13:36:25 +0000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Allen Dick Organization: The Beekeepers Subject: Re: Extremly mean Bees >I am a beekeeper of Central Texas, I currently have 10 hives by the end of >Monday I would like to have only 9. I've been keeping bees for 5 years now, >So what do yall( told you I was from Texas) think I should do >about this colony??? Personally, I would just move them mid day when they are flying freely so their flying bees drift into the other hives. Move them back in the yard and turn them around. (Hide the hive from its bees) Done once a week, this should weaken them enough that you can find the queen and requeen them. You can also split them in half if they are in two boxes and requeen each half. They should be much less aggressive when weakened. Regards Allen W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper VE6CFK Rural Route One, Swalwell, Alberta Canada T0M 1Y0 Honey. Bees, Art, & Futures ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 4 Sep 1995 13:24:59 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Subject: Re: Cleaning PermaDent Foundation In-Reply-To: <199509032248.RAA06759@gateway.airmail.net> On Sun, 3 Sep 1995, Larry Farris wrote: > Have any users of Permadent foundation found a successful way to clean the > old foundation (especially that which has been used for brood nest area) in > order to reuse the foundation anew? I am looking for a description of a way > in which to clean the foundation without causing damage to it. Please do Apparently when it is frozen, the comb will pop off the surfaces with only a little flexing. Jean-Pierre wrote an article mentioning this. W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper VE6CFK Rural Route One Swalwell Alberta Canada T0M 1Y0 Email: dicka@cuug.ab.ca or allend@internode.net Futures, Art & Honey:http://www.cuug.ab.ca:8001/~dicka ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 4 Sep 1995 18:12:27 +0100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Gordon Scott Subject: Bee behaviour (in obs. hive) Hi all, Whilst watching bees in an observation hive, I've seen various aspects of their behaviour which are new to me, or which I now understand better, however there are a couple of thing that still puzzle me. Maybe someone else has some thoughts. When building comb, the bees hang in 'chains' from the thin strip of foundation I gave them. Clearly this helps them get their comb vertical and therefore stable. However, from time to time, bees drop from this chain to the floor where they gradually pile up in a heap of apparent 'corpses'. They're not dead, but if it's exhaustion, it's pretty profound -- they lay there motionless and looking physically flat. They manage to hang together ok when they for a swarm -- what's different here? (it could be hotter!). I see a number of apparent squables between two or three bees, where one seems to be the subject of abuse, the others climbing all over it, apparently pulling it about, biting it and attempting to sting it. Close (eyeball) inspection shows that whilst the bees are curled up as though trying to sting, the sting is not exposed or used and the pulling and biting, whilst appearing to be disturbing to the 'victim' doesn't appear to result in any damage or serious retribution. Is this some kind of cleaning behaviour perhaps? Best regards, -- Gordon Scott gordon@apis.demon.co.uk CompuServe 100332,3310 gordon@multitone.co.uk CompuServe 100070,413 Beekeeper; Kendo 3rd Dan; Sometime sailor. The Basingstoke Beekeeper (newsletter) beekeeper@apis.demon.co.uk ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 4 Sep 1995 17:18:56 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Larry Farris Subject: Re: Cleaning PermaDent Foundation >Apparently when it is frozen, the comb will pop off the surfaces with >only a little flexing. Jean-Pierre wrote an article mentioning this Will be glade to test this idea. I have already put frames (both scraped off foundation and drawn foundation) in the chest freezer for several days in order to protect them from the wax moths (very active here in Texas right now!). I will let you know if this works. Is there a time period or temperature that is critical? Because when this doesn't work, I'd hate to be told that I didn't leave them in there long enough or that I needed liquid nitrogen in order to get the temperature low enough Actually, its been my experience that after a long time (1 year) in the freezer, that the wax does become very "brittle" and does flake off (probably due to drying out more than any thing else). Right now, I do not believe that this will work for that very hard brood area wax/slum(sp) composite and pollen cells. But I will give it my best try (with an open mind!). THANKS FOR THE SUGGESTION & I WILL TRY IT !!!......Anybody else with another idea? ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 4 Sep 1995 13:44:49 -1000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Kevin Roddy Subject: Managing "primitive" hives In-Reply-To: <9509041933.AA03288@cuugnet.cuug.ab.ca> A friend of mine recently purchased a house complete with beehive in the back yard. He expressed an interest in keeping the hive on his property and having me manage it. Before he moved in, the previous owner took quite a bit of honey from the hive. Since the previous didn't have bee overalls, or any equipment at all, this fellow wrapped himself up in a bedsheet and affixed a coconut hat to keep the sheet in place to get the honey. Anyway, the hive was a two story plywood job, no frames at all. When I looked in the second story (which had three separate entrances) I saw that the bees attached comb to the sides of the plywoodand built comb outward into the box. Below in what was the brood chamber (perhaps a square entrance 3 inches by 3 inches) I saw twisted honeycomb, and many many bees working the comb. To my pleasant surprise, these bees were extremely docile and gentle. I removed the top story and replaced it with a 10 frame super. However, I was wondering how to manage the lower brood box that had no frames at all. "If it ain't broke, don't fix it" is a maxim in my life, and if the bees, who my friend tells me have been in this hive "for years" have been able to cope, I should just leave well enough alone until the box starts to rot and fall apart. Anyone else have experience is "converting" a primitive hive to a Langstroth type? kevin roddy kroddy@hawaii.edu ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 4 Sep 1995 22:02:54 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: David Morris Subject: Re: Effect on Native Bees I seem to recall reading an article several years ago in ABJ about a research project on some islands off the coast of southern California. There is a population of feral european honey bees that were supplanting the native solitary bess, etc. The plan was to remove all the feral bees and see how the natives responded. I believe the islands were Federal property. This is the opposite of the original question. Has anyone heard any follow-up on this? Cheers, David Morris ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 4 Sep 1995 22:07:00 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jean-Pierre Chapleau Subject: Re: Cleaning PermaDent Foundation >> Have any users of Permadent foundation found a successful way to clean the >> old foundation (especially that which has been used for brood nest area) in >> order to reuse the foundation anew? I am looking for a description of a way >> in which to clean the foundation without causing damage to it. > >I believe that Jean-Pierre chapleau indicated that when frozen, the >combs could be readily stripped, as the comb disengaeges from the >foundation with a little flexing. Here I am The flexing trick is something I was told by Mr Coppola, a New York State beekeeper who uses Piercos. I use Piercos myself for the second year now but I have no dark built plastic frames. So I could not try the flexing method myself. Nevertheless I cleaned some newly built plastic frames simply by scraping them with large spatula at a temperature around 10 degres celcius or lower. For darker frames with thick cell walls I imagin the colder the frame the easier it would be to clean them out. I know that Permadent have deeper cell prints than Pierco foundation. Maybe this makes a significant difference and they may bee harder to clean out. Anyway try the cold and let us know! Jean-Pierre Chapleau bee breeder Quebec, Canada chapleau@praline.net Jean-Pierre Chapleau Queen breeder Vice-president of the Canadian Honey Council 1282, rang 8, Saint-Adrien de Ham, Quebec province, Canada, J0A 1C0 phone (819) 828-3396; fax (819) 828-0357 chapleau@praline.net ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 4 Sep 1995 21:19:54 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Don Miller Subject: BEE VENOM THERAPY TRYING TO IDENTIFY SOMEONE WHO IS FAMILIAR WITH OR HAS APPLIED THE THERAPY. LET ME HEAR FROM YOU. D. MILLER ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 4 Sep 1995 21:33:48 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Liz Day Subject: Re: Bee behaviour (in obs. hive) I see a number of apparent squables between two or three bees, where one seems to be the subject of abuse, the others climbing all over it, apparently pulling it about, biting it and attempting to sting it. Close (eyeball) inspection shows that whilst the bees are curled up as though trying to sting, the sting is not exposed or used and the pulling and biting, whilst appearing to be disturbing to the 'victim' doesn't appear to result in any damage or serious retribution. Is this some kind of cleaning behaviour perhaps? It could be some kind of dominance behavior, where the 'muggers' are showing their dominance over the 'victim'. I understand bumblebees do this - keeps the other workers from getting too cocky and laying eggs. Liz Day LDAY@indy.net Indianapolis, Indiana, central USA ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 4 Sep 1995 21:39:05 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Liz Day Subject: Re: Furniture cream -- a dilema. I have a bottle of something called "The Natchez Solution" furniture cream. It contains "beeswax, lemon oil, ans selcted mineral oils". Made in Mississippi, U.S. 601-352-5100 or 800 669 8954 or PO Box 16235, Jackson, MS 39236. I have not tried it myself. But is IS free of animal products. Liz Day LDAY@indy.net Indianapolis, Indiana, central USA ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 4 Sep 1995 21:52:01 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Don Miller Subject: Re: Bee behaviour (in obs. hive) IT COULD BE POSTURING OR ORIENTATION BEHAVIOR, WHERE 'VICTIM' IS BEING SHOWN THE ROPES OR HOW TO DEFEND OR ATTACK. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 4 Sep 1995 23:05:35 +22300129 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Adam Finkelstein Subject: Re: Bee behaviour (in obs. hive) In-Reply-To: <199509050233.VAA11065@indy3.indy.net> from "Liz Day" at Sep 4, 95 09:33:48 pm Liz Day wrote: > It could be some kind of dominance behavior, where the 'muggers' are > showing their dominance over the 'victim'. I understand bumblebees > do this - keeps the other workers from getting too cocky and laying > eggs. Cocky? A little anthropomorphic, eh Liz? What about grooming for varroa mites? Did this colony have varroa? Adam -- ________________________________ Adam Finkelstein adamf@vtaix.cc.vt.edu Adaptive significance-- what's that? ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 4 Sep 1995 20:26:32 -0800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jay Jones Subject: cross reaction of insect venoms I recently was stung by a wasp and my hand swelled to an impressive size. Some years back I used to keep bees and would get stung from time to time with little reaction. A few months ago I started another hive and have not been stung as yet. I wonder if the wasp sting is any indication of the possible severity of the reaction to future bee stings. Anyone out there know much about the immunological crossreactivity of wasp and bee stings? Any insights welcome. Send replies to: Jay Jones jonesj@ulvacs.ulaverne.edu Thanks! ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 5 Sep 1995 09:28:18 GMT+0100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "MORGAN, ANTHONY" Subject: Re: Heather honey > Date: Mon, 4 Sep 1995 17:37:02 +0100 > From: Gordon Scott > Subject: Re: Heather honey Gordon wrote: > Heather honey is thixotropic, which means it behaves like non-drip > paint. It's naturally a gel, but if you stir it up, for example with > that wire roller, it turns to a liquid for a while and can then be > extracted in a normal extractor. It turns back to a gel a little later. Hei! Here in mid-Norway 50 percent of our yearly crop of honey is heather honey. First we have "summer honey" which is nearly pure wild raspberry and when this is harvested at the end of July we move our hives out to the heather moorland on the coastal strip or one of the islands until about now (ealy september). As mentioned heather honey is thixotropic and not easy to centrifuge out of the frames. Three factors are important if destructive extraction is to be avoided:--- 1) The supers should be stacked up on a support that allows placement of a heat source underneath and the whole lot heated up over 1 or 2 days. The honey room should also be heated up ready for extraction (somewhat over 30 centigrade). 2) After capping the honey needs to be agitated to further reduce its tendency to stay put. Nobody I know uses one of those spiked paint roller objects which look to me to be a bit weak-kneeded for the job. For a small number of hives a manual agitator is the best answer -- this is made of metal with a bar handle, is rectangular say 2 inches wide and long enough to stretch from top to bottom of a frame and has a large number of spring loaded nylon plungers spaced so as to match the cells on the frame. One has to plunge this up and down all over each side of the frame several times immediately prior to loading up the centrifuge. Folk with large numbers of hives use a similar method but the agitator is a hand or motor driven mechanical contrivance that moves the frame backwards and forwards whilst agitating both sides at once by means of two sets of spring loaded plungers. Both these agitator types are costly (can quote prices later if anyone is interested - havent got a catalogue to hand right now). Some people claim that it is not necessary to cap first but I must say I am doubtful about this. 3) The third factor is centrifuge speed -- this needs to be *very* high. New comb usually doesnt survive even if one extracts a little at a time with frequent turning of the frames. For this reason we try to fill the heather honey supers with old dark frames. Once the honey is out of the frames the temperature should be kept high and pressure or centrifugal filtering (the preferred method here) carried out. Gravity filtering just does not work, the honey is too gel-like even now! The honey we get is darkish, amber perhaps? with a strong distinctive taste that one either loves or dislikes. A final note: before feeding the bees with sugar syrup for the winter one has to be certain that *all* heather honey has been taken out as the bees dont seem to be able to digest this honey completely and when they inevitably need to get rid of the waste they either come out and freeze or mess up the hive with a risk of sickness and a high death rate both over the winter and in the early spring. Cheers Tony. --------------------------------------------------------------- Anthony N. Morgan (Tony) Fax: +47 73 89 62 86 "Stavshagen" E-mail: anthony@iet.hist.no Midtsandan Sor-Trondelag College 7563 MALVIK Elec. Eng. Department Norway 7005 TRONDHEIM, Norway ---------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 5 Sep 1995 05:44:43 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ron Harriger Subject: Re: Heather honey Hi, With all this talk about about HEATHER honey my taste buds are ready to give it a try. Where in the world would a person get a hold of a 1 pound on this side of the Atlantic. (in the U.S.) Ron Harriger 100 Rhoades St. Cambridge Springs Pa. 16403 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 5 Sep 1995 02:53:39 +0800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Baldur Subject: Re: Heather honey > Where in the world would a person get a hold of a 1 >pound on this side of the Atlantic. (in the U.S.) > > > Ron Harriger > 100 Rhoades St. > Cambridge Springs Pa. 16403 Or here on the West Coast? Though there is lots of heather grows hereabouts it seems to be almost the exclusive preserve of bumblebees. I guess theres too many richer sources of nectar for my buckfasts to use it if they have other choices. Stuart Grant 1834 Cliff Rd. Point Roberts Wa. 49 degrees North (exactly) and approx 150 degrees West e > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- "Are you aware that appetites can never be satisfied?" Neal A. Maxwell-------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 5 Sep 1995 13:43:25 GMT+0100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "MORGAN, ANTHONY" Subject: Re: Furniture cream Hei! Gordon Scott wrote: > we sell a beeswax > polish, which is a fairly popular line. However, some people ask for > a 'cream' rather than a polish. All the recipes I see for these creams > use soft-soap as an ingredient........ I produce beeswax polish from beeswax and pure natural turpentine (lovely smell!), by varying the proportions one can obtain anything from a hard shoe polish consistency to a creamy butter-like consistency. Why use soft soap? If one must, beeswax soap might be the answer?(instructions for making can be found on the net) As additional info I submit the following from Rick Buchanan , dated 15th. June 1995 >Take it from someone who has a long history of cabinetry etc. >Don't use bee's or any type of wax on your furniture. >It will soften the finish over the years. sometimes older >furniture will have a sticky feel. No amount of polish will remove >this. It is the finish s-l-o-w-l-y dessolving. Despite the comercials, >oil is best. Go to a kitchen store find PURE lemon oil. Use an old t-shirt >that is damp (make that humid) and apply 3-4 drops of lemon oil to the cloth. >Apply. Wipe with a dry t-shirt. >This works for varnishes and french polish (shellac). For lacquer, add >1/8 tsp of pure softened carnuaba wax (pure) to 1/8 cup pure lemon oil. >Apply a few drops to a humid t-shirt and polish. Wipe w/ dry t-shirt. >The carnuaba wax will keep the lacquer from crazing. For plastic (polyester, >vinylester, epoxy, polyurethane, etc.) use lemon oil and water only (same >as for varnish). >Here is why.... >Silicone, if used, will imbed itself in the finish. Refinishing the piece will be >near impossible. Wax, especially soft wax like beeswax, will attract >dirt. This dirt becomes imbedded in the finish and turns it dark. >The only reason to use wax (and it must be a hard wax) is to prevent >crazing. A minute amount is needed and needs to be fully buffed out. >Oil will remove grease and oil. Lemon oil is a light oil so it will flow out > well and remove soot and fingerprints. Do not use too much wax or oil. >One wants to remove dirt and grease, keep the finish plyable so it won't craze, and >to leave nothing on the finish when finished. >If you can't find lemon oil, you can substitute banana oil. Where does one get banana oil from??! >This actually works better (than lemon oil) because it flows >out even better than lemon oil does and thus less is needed. >However it is very expensive. If the type of finish you have requires a wax, >remember... a little carnauba goes along, long way/ 1/4 tsp will wax a >large car. >Beeswax instills confidence that you are doing the best thing >for your furniture, and unbelieveable as it may sound, some cabinet and >furniture builders even recommend it! Forget tradition. Use what won't >do harm to your finish. Stay away from commercial polishes, silicone, and >beeswax. I can't comment on this but it seems I've been doing it all wrong for the last 30 years!! Cheers Tony. --------------------------------------------------------------- Anthony N. Morgan (Tony) Fax: +47 73 89 62 86 "Stavshagen" E-mail: anthony@iet.hist.no Midtsandan Sor-Trondelag College 7563 MALVIK Elec. Eng. Department Norway 7005 TRONDHEIM, Norway ---------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 5 Sep 1995 07:25:39 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Blair J. Sampson" Subject: Re: Bee behaviour (in obs. hive) In-Reply-To: <199509050233.VAA11065@indy3.indy.net> Howdy all, Liz maybe quite right!!! It sounds to me that the queen may have lost her dominance (maybe even died) and the workers ovaries are probably starting to develop. If this is the case each worker would start to assert her own dominance. This is usually expressed as workers "mauling" workers, i.e. bees grasping other bees and attempting to sting but not doing so. In bumble bee colonies worker dominance manifests itself as oophagy (eating each other eggs). However, their are socially parasitic bumble bees (_Psithyrus_ spp.) that do not produce workers, instead the female will usurp the nest of a host bumble bee (_Bombus_). If the _Psithyrus_ species is a queen displacer, it either kills or evicts the queen and then the task of maintaining social harmony falls to the _Psithyrus_ female. Once the _Psithyrus_ is "accepted" by the host workers, she must assert behavioural dominance by mauling them (gripping and attempting to sting without the stinger everted). This behaviour is also shared by the socially parasitic Yellowjackets. In some cases their forelegs are adapted for grasping. I hope this was helpful... Cheers, Blair Blair Sampson Department of Entomology Auburn University, Alabama 36849-5413 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 5 Sep 1995 10:11:07 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "James E. Hoyt" Subject: Re: the recipe In-Reply-To: <199509011637.LAA02784@indy3.indy.net> On Fri, 1 Sep 1995, Liz Day wrote: > One of the bee women at the fair said to use a double boiler > to heat them in. If I fill my mother's double boiler with wax, > I'll have many problems that can't be fixed with hand lotion!! I construct a double boiler by using a "wax pan" set in another shallow pan such as a deep-dish frying pan. The wax pan rests upon something other then the bottom of the boiling pan. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 5 Sep 1995 09:05:42 PDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Adrian Wenner Subject: Re: Effect on Native Bees David Morris wrote (in response to other queries): >I seem to recall reading an article several years ago in ABJ about a research >project on some islands off the coast of southern California. There is a >population of feral European honey bees that were supplanting the native >solitary bees, etc. The plan was to remove all the feral bees and see how >the native bees responded. I believe the islands were Federal property. Good for David! We now near the end of our eighth season of research, with some relevant publications as follows: 1989 Wenner, A.M. "Bee-lining and ecological research on Santa Cruz Island. Amer. Bee Journal. 129(12):808-809. 1993 Wenner, A.M. and R.W. Thorp. The honey bees of Santa Cruz Island. Bee Culture. 121 (5):272-275. 1994 Thorp, R.W., A.M. Wenner and J.F. Barthell. 1994. Flowers visited by honey bees and native bees on Santa Cruz Island. Pages 351-365 in: Halverson, W.L. and G.J. Meander (eds.), Fourth California Islands Symposium: Update on the status of resources. Santa Barbara Museum of Natural History, Santa Barbara, CA. 1994 Wenner, A.M. and R.W. Thorp. Removal of feral honey bee (Apis mellifera) colonies from Santa Cruz Island. Pp. 513-522 in: Halverson, W.L. and G.J. Meander (eds.), Fourth California Islands Symposium: Update on the status of resources. Santa Barbara Museum of Natural History, Santa Barbara, CA. ****** An irony: At about the very same time we proposed our study (Fall, 1987), varroa mites had destroyed colonies in Wisconsin. Now, feral colonies have been effectively eliminated by varroa mites throughout California but not yet on Santa Cruz Island (even though varroa is out there). We will be presenting that material at the American Bee Research Conference in Georgia this month (as well as some material on the odor-search recruitment model and some on swarm hive effectiveness). Adrian *************************************************************** * Adrian Wenner E-Mail wenner@lifesci.lscf.ucsb.edu * * Department of Biology Office Phone (805) 893-2838 * * University of California Lab Phone (805) 893-2838 * * Santa Barbara, CA 93106 FAX (805) 893-4724 * *************************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 5 Sep 1995 09:31:00 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Kerry Clark 784-2225 fax (604) 784 2299" Subject: Re: Furniture cream Roger and Ann Clapham, beekeepers from Abbotsford, British Columbia have for about 20 years been producing a furniture polish based on beeswax (based I think on a recipe from their family in Britain). A year or two ago they concluded a marketing agreement with the Smithsonian Institute. My impression of the agreement is that the Smithsonian had tested the wax polish and found it superior to others available, and contacted the Clapham's for the marketing arrangement. I think the product is available in the Smitsonian gift shop (as well as from the source, and various other outlets in B.C.). Although the logic in the previous post, about lemon (or banana) oil being superior, seems reasonable, why would the Smithsonian go to the trouble to seek out (and promote) a beeswax base product, if lemon oil was adequate? Kerry Clark, Apiculture Specialist B.C. Ministry of Agriculture 1201 103 Ave Dawson Creek B.C. V1G 4J2 CANADA Tel (604) 784-2225 fax (604) 784-2299 INTERNET KCLARK@GALAXY.GOV.BC.CA ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 5 Sep 1995 07:23:16 -1000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Thomas W. Culliney -- Dept. of Agriculture" Subject: Re: Cross reaction of insect venoms In-Reply-To: <01HUW34TT4NC004GES@ULVACS.ULAVERNE.EDU> On Mon, 4 Sep 1995, Jay Jones wrote: > I recently was stung by a wasp and my hand swelled to an impressive size. > Some years back I used to keep bees and would get stung from time to time > with little reaction. A few months ago I started another hive and have not > been stung as yet. I wonder if the wasp sting is any indication of the > possible severity of the reaction to future bee stings. Anyone out there > know much about the immunological crossreactivity of wasp and bee stings? Venoms from different groups of Hymenoptera apparently are antigenically different. A few years ago, I discovered to my dismay that I had developed a severe allergy to honey bee venom (a real bummer since I have to work with bees). When tested for allergic reaction to various species of bees and wasps (honey and bumble bees, yellowjackets, paper wasps), prior to beginning a program of immunotherapy, I reacted only to the honey bee venom, and at the lowest concentration tested. There seems not to be any cross-reactivity; if you have an allergic reaction to a wasp sting, you won't necessarily have one to a honey bee sting. The immunotherapy works like a charm. I now can go out there and get stung to my heart's content--just like the old days. Tom Culliney culliney@elele.peacesat.hawaii.edu ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 5 Sep 1995 18:11:02 +0100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Gordon Scott Subject: Re: Bee behaviour (in obs. hive) In-Reply-To: <199509050305.XAA60554@vtaix.cc.vt.edu> On Mon, 4 Sep 1995, Adam Finkelstein wrote: > Liz Day wrote: > > > It could be some kind of dominance behavior, where the 'muggers' are > > showing their dominance over the 'victim'. I understand bumblebees > > do this - keeps the other workers from getting too cocky and laying > > eggs. > > Cocky? A little anthropomorphic, eh Liz? > > What about grooming for varroa mites? Did this colony have varroa? > > Adam Hi all, There is certainly a consensus for some kind of dominance behaviour, I've seen it regularly so I'll try to observe more and see if this does appear so. They are certainly not queenless -- when they are at shows I'm pointing her out to people every few minutes (breaks the ice at parties :-), so that's not the trigger. It might be an effect of them being in a very small hive though? There can't be more than a couple of thousand BAS, the rest of the two frames is now wall-to-wall honey and there are many possibly bored workers. Also, the small size may be a little worrisome for them? I cannot see any varroa in the hive, although it's probably there somewhere as it's in all the rest now. However, I guess it could be a response to a general feeling of irritation. I could see the 'victims' quite well and there was no sign of a mite on any of them. I don't *think* mites are the reason, but I keep an open mind about these things. _Especially_ if this looks like a grooming response. Regards, -- Gordon Scott gordon@apis.demon.co.uk CompuServe 100332,3310 gordon@multitone.co.uk CompuServe 100070,413 Beekeeper; Kendo 3rd Dan; Sometime sailor. The Basingstoke Beekeeper (newsletter) beekeeper@apis.demon.co.uk ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 5 Sep 1995 17:53:06 +0100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Gordon Scott Subject: Re: Managing "primitive" hives In-Reply-To: On Mon, 4 Sep 1995, Kevin Roddy wrote: > Anyone else have experience is "converting" a > primitive hive to a Langstroth type? I had to move bees from a skep into a modern hive last year. I inherited it and its residents, and they had not been managed for the last two or three years of the owners life. The skep was _seriously_ fragile so I couldn't move it without the whole lot collapsing. What I did, and what may give you ideas, was make a fairly thin plywood panel, large enough to cover the new hive and to fit under the skep. I made a hole in the centre about 3" square. We slid the ply under the old skep (very carefully as the thing was disintegrating in our hands) util the hole in the board was roughly central, then used the board to lift the whole thing aside for a short while. Then we set up the new hive where the skep had been, complete with some foundation and some drawn comb. Next we lifted the board and skep onto the top of the new brood box, where the cover board would normally have been, so thet the hole was over the drawn comb. We sealed up all the holes we could in the skep (hardest job of the lot ;-), covered it to help keep rain out and left if for a few weeks. As bees tend to try to keep the brood nest near the entrance, when we finally opened the arrangement, the queen and brood were mostly in the lower box as expected (hoped :-), so we were able to clear the skep and remove it. It worked out ok and we *don't appear* to have inherited any disease from them. Oh, BTW, these were a pretty bad-tempered bunch, so we requeened them. Regards, -- Gordon Scott gordon@apis.demon.co.uk CompuServe 100332,3310 gordon@multitone.co.uk CompuServe 100070,413 Beekeeper; Kendo 3rd Dan; Sometime sailor. The Basingstoke Beekeeper (newsletter) beekeeper@apis.demon.co.uk ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 5 Sep 1995 18:29:06 +0100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Gordon Scott Subject: Re: Furniture cream -- a dilema. In-Reply-To: <199509050239.VAA11212@indy3.indy.net> On Mon, 4 Sep 1995, Liz Day wrote: > I have a bottle of something called "The Natchez Solution" > furniture cream. It contains "beeswax, lemon oil, and selected > mineral oils". Thanks to all who wrote. It sounds as though I can use an oil instead of the soap, which is great. I'll have to experiment. Is lemon oil the stuff that comes from the lemon fruit and has the wonderfully lemony smell & flavour, or is there a 'language' problem -- maybe it's a wood oil? In the UK, we tend to use 'teak oil' for treating wood, however we'd use a lot more than a few drops and it would normally be as a finish in its own right, so I guess this is different. Regards, -- Gordon Scott gordon@apis.demon.co.uk CompuServe 100332,3310 gordon@multitone.co.uk CompuServe 100070,413 Beekeeper; Kendo 3rd Dan; Sometime sailor. The Basingstoke Beekeeper (newsletter) beekeeper@apis.demon.co.uk ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 5 Sep 1995 12:58:36 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Kelley Rosenlund Subject: Citrus I understand some varieties of citrus are better for production of honey than others. Does anyone know where I can get a list that ranks citrus varieties by the amount of honey that can be produced? God Bless, Kelley Rosenlund Gainesville, Fla. U.S.A., 32 hives ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 5 Sep 1995 14:02:18 -500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Dan Buchsbaum Subject: Re: Cleaning PermaDent Foundation In-Reply-To: <199509042218.RAA03224@gateway.airmail.net> I too had some Pierco frames that I removed that were black and difficult to clean. Being busy with other projects, I just stuck them in a nuc that was sitting in a dark corner of the garage. That was about 3 weeks ago. Deciding that I now have the time to get working on them, I pulled them out and had a pleasant surprise. The wax moths have literally polished several small sections to a gleaming white and are making serious inroads to the rest of the frames. If you have a few months to wait one could utilize one of our worst enemies for this business of cleaning plastic frames... - Cynthia ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 5 Sep 1995 15:16:41 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Larry Farris Subject: Re: Bee behaviour (in obs. hive) >On Mon, 4 Sep 1995, Adam Finkelstein wrote: > >> Liz Day wrote: >> >> > It could be some kind of dominance behavior, where the 'muggers' are >> > showing their dominance over the 'victim'. I understand bumblebees >> > do this - keeps the other workers from getting too cocky and laying >> > eggs. >> >> Cocky? A little anthropomoric I likewise have seen this behavior in my 15-frame (deep brood frames) semi-permanent observation hive so I don't believe its a "space" thing. I do believe that it may have to do with Queen scent problems in the hive. This is not "grooming" behavior....grooming behavior looks entirely different. This activity is much "rougher." I haven't thought about the "guard training" thing before; this might be worth taking a look at. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 5 Sep 1995 17:01:25 +22300129 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Adam Finkelstein Subject: Re: Bee behaviour (in obs. hive) In-Reply-To: <199509052016.PAA16555@gateway.airmail.net> from "Larry Farris" at Sep 5, 95 03:16:41 pm Larry Farris wrote: > This is not "grooming" behavior....grooming behavior looks entirely > different. This activity is much "rougher." I haven't thought about the > "guard training" thing before; this might be worth taking a look at. > I'm using observation hives in my research, and have seen bees showing some response to varroa. I've seen very aggressive grooming behavior that is similar to what was originally described (allo-grooming). I've seen this in queenless observation hives and in queen-right ones, as well as in full-sized colonies. This is why I mentioned grooming behavior as a possible reason for the activity. Some papers were describe this behavior. I don't have them right now, but would gladly send anyone the citations. Just e-mail me for them.(not bee-l) Adam -- ________________________________ Adam Finkelstein adamf@vtaix.cc.vt.edu Adaptive significance-- what's that? ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 6 Sep 1995 11:57:59 +1200 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Murray Reid Subject: Honeybee comb building -Reply Kevin..re your enquiry on why bees build hexagons...I have a reference in my card files to a paper by Toth L Fejes 1964. What the bees know and what they do not know . Bull American Math Soc 70(4) 468-481. Haven't seen the paper so don't know whether it has anything useful but my brief notes on the card say the most effecient shape for a cell base is 2 hexagons plus 2 rhombi not 3 rhombi as bees build. Yep, that's what they say alright.!! Murray Reid Maf Quality Management New Zealand ReidM@Ruakura.MQM.Govt.NZ >>> Kevin Roddy 31/August/1995 02:44pm >>> Hello all-- A professor at the university asked me to forward this request to you. I'm a reference librarian, and beekeeper myself in Puna, on the Island of Hawai'i. Kevin-- I am looking for *documented references* to books, periodicals or research reports which give answers to the following question: What makes the cells of honeybee combs hexagonal? I'm not especially interested in unreferenced opinions unless they're from apiculturists (bee people). I have plenty of unreferenced opinions of my own. But I would welcome opinions from apiculturalists, or information they may have found when reading about bees (even ifthese reference are out of date.) The two main theories are 1) Geometry: bees try to make cylindrical cells, but close-packing forces the cells into hexagonal shapes, and 2) Instinct: that bees have a specific instinct to build hexagons when cells are near each other. (Single queen cells are cylindrical.) Buffon argued for geometry in the 1750s, Lord Brougham for instinct in the 1830s, D'Arcy Thompson for geometry in 1913, and von Frisch for instinct in 1974. Does anyone know of further references or for scholars who are currently or have recently examined this problem (either in published form or unpublished manuscripts? You may send mail directly to me at the e-mail address below. Thank you in advance for any information you can provide. Ron Amundson Univ. of Hawaii at Hilo Hilo, HI 96720 ronald@hawaii.edu ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 5 Sep 1995 17:45:25 -0700 Reply-To: uc779@freenet.victoria.bc.ca Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Conrad A. Berube" Subject: Removing bees from bee trees (advice requested) Greetings! I have been asked to remove the occupants from several bee trees (oaks) near playgrounds and parks. The bees are residing in cavities within venerated, veteran Garry oaks with their nest openings approximately 40 feet above the ground. Comments (e-mailed directly to me) on any of the following options are welcomed (and if anyone is interested I'll post back the outcome): * Of course the easiest option, as I see it, is to poison the bees |-( and then seal up the nest opening. I'm wondering what, if any, detrimental effects may be caused by the honey left within the cavities that would I'm fairly certain, eventually begin to ferment, burst the comb and drain into the tree-- possibly encouraging internal rot. Does anyone know if this might be a problem? * If the possibility of contributing to rot does seem to be worthy of concern then funneling the bees into a hive (using a bee escape and comb with larvae and queen in the hive to prevent bees from attempting to reenter the original nest, as discussed recently on Bee-L) may be more feasible. Some of the honey would be consumed by the hive bees left behind until they reached foraging age and began to leave the nest themselves-- but I don't really believe that the remaining bees would put much of a dent in the stores that would normally carry the full colony through the winter. Any contrary thoughts? * My feeling is that if getting the honey out of the tree is really important, again, it would be more expedient to simply poison the current occupants with a non-residual pesticide and then position a colony (ideally up out of reach of vandals) with few stores of its own nearby so that it will rob out the stores of the killed nest. The problem with this approach is that placing a managed colony on parkland requires assuming liability if anything goes wrong and someone gets stung or bonked by falling hive parts during heavy winds (if the hives are positioned on platforms secured to the trees). Any brighter ideas that would yield the same end result? Any ideas for an appropriate pesticide? I know that sulphur was traditionally used to kill bees in skeps but how the heck is this done? Would I just toss rock sulphur into a burning smoker? Would herbage in the mouth of the smoker be sufficient to trap stray sparks (don't want to burn down the trees) or is burning sulphur going to burn so hot that I'll need special equipment? * The last idea I had was to simply supervise the use of an industrial vacuum to suck out the comb, bees-and-all, and then poison and seal up the nest openings. This would probably be the most effective but also the most expensive option since it would require paying the vacuum company. Any caveats for this approach? Any and all suggestions gratefully accepted. Bee well, - Conrad Berube " ` ISLAND CROP MANAGEMENT " ` 1326 Franklin Terrace _- -_`-_|'\ /` Victoria, B.C. _/ / / -' `~()() V8S 1C7 \_\ _ /\-._/\/ (604)480-0223; fax (604)656-8922 / | | email: uc779@freenet.victoria.bc.ca '` ^ ^ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 5 Sep 1995 20:04:11 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Liz Day Subject: Re: Furniture cream Although the logic in the previous post, about lemon (or banana) oil being superior, seems reasonable, why would the Smithsonian go to the trouble to seek out (and promote) a beeswax base product, if lemon oil was adequate? I don't think any oil is as good as a wax. At least that is my experience with them as waterproofers for boots and skin. After reading these posts, I'm going to quit using linseed oil on my garden tool handles and try the beeswax polish instead. Liz Day LDAY@indy.net Pink Inchworm Ranch Indianapolis, Indiana, central USA ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 5 Sep 1995 20:20:30 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Liz Day Subject: Re: Furniture cream -- a dilema. Lemon oil so far as I know is yes, the oil that comes from the lemon rind when you invert it. Expensive stuff! Prized as flavoring for food, drink, and gum. Liz Day LDAY@indy.net Indianapolis, Indiana, central USA ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 5 Sep 1995 22:28:10 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Timothy S. Sterrett" Subject: Cleaning plastic foundation I once left a Pierco frame of comb in my classroom too long (more than a year) and found that some kind of insect (maybe wax moths) had reduced the comb to powder (frass) which left the plastic frame and foundation whistle-clean. Why not let wax moths try to clean the frame; they are good at it! Tim Sterrett Westtown, Pennsylvania, USA tss@locke.ccil.org ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 5 Sep 1995 20:56:19 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ann Dougherty Subject: Bleaching Wax In-Reply-To: I've been rendering some of my bees wax lately, and making candles, lip balm etc. Some of the wax is nice and light colored while some is really fairly dark i.e. dirt colored. I use Hydrogen Peroxide to help purify and settle some of the contaminates. This works well but doesn't really bleach it...like the color of cappings during a strong flow. Does any one know of a good home remedy to bleach bees wax? Ann ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 6 Sep 1995 11:29:00 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Lomer, Christopher" Subject: fungus on bees Bonsoir from West Africa everyone! I'm doing work at the International Institute of Tropical Agriculture in Benin. Biological Control Center for Africa. I am testing a fungus used for the biocontrol of locusts on honey bees. The species here are Apis Mellifera adansonii. Anyone who knows anything about fungus on bees, please reply! Book/paper recommendations would be much appreciated. THANX ALL Patch Byrne. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 6 Sep 1995 08:53:08 GMT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: MEMO 1995/09/06 09:00 From: John E III Taylor Subject: Re: the recipe Having seen the recipe (calling for 61% Liquid Paraffin), I'd definitely go with the white mineral oil. There _is_ a virtually odorless version of kerosene marketed under the name "Ultrasene", but you'd end up with a really runny liquid if you used that much, and with the white mineral oil you should have a consistency much more like a "lotion." John E. Taylor III W3ZID | "The opinions expressed are those of the E-Mail: mah48d@rohmhaas.com | writer and not of Rohm and Haas Company." ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 6 Sep 1995 07:21:58 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Keith Benson Subject: Re: Re[2]: comb contined >Biggest problem I see with the Permacomb is the cost. As a hobbyist, I'd rather >let the bees draw comb on wax foundation or waxed plastic foundation than spend >the significant extra money for the Permacomb. > You are right, they are not cheap...but they are practically indestructable, the even plastic surface makes tham easier to uncap, and your time to assemble frames/wax/wires etc is worth something. For me the cost vs. benefit tipped the scales to the plastic. its not for everyone though. cheers Keith ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 6 Sep 1995 09:16:39 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Whitney S. Cranshaw" Subject: Re: Recipe for using Crisco/sugar for tracheal mites Could someone please give me a recipe for using the Crisco/sugar patties to suppress tracheal mites? I would also like to learn from people who have tried this how successful it was for them. You may contact me directly at: wcransha@ceres.agsci.colostate.edu Whitney Cranshaw Department of Entomology Colorado State University ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 6 Sep 1995 12:21:25 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ray Lackey Subject: gazebo - Tom Elliot Sorry to throw this on the net but I am getting an error on your address Tom. Status: R Thanks for the info. Do you know where I may have seen a photo of the gazebo? the nature center director I am working with is interested. I went back in my ABJ and didn't find it. Can you get contact info on Fletcher Miller for me. It sounds like he would be good to talk to an d communicate with. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ + Raymond J. Lackey, EAS Master Beekeeper, VP LIBA + + Twelve years exper with 25 colonies on Long Island, NY+ + INTERNET: lackeyr@hazeltine.com + + Mail: 1260 Walnut Avenue, Bohemia NY 11617-2176 + + Home Phone: 516-567-1936 FAX: 516-262-8053 + ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 6 Sep 1995 11:41:43 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Winifred Doane Subject: Re: Furniture cream -- a dilema. In-Reply-To: Message of Tue, 5 Sep 1995 20:20:30 -0500 from It is my understanding that the "lemon oil" prized for protecting the finish on wooden furniture, etc., comes from lemon grass, which is also used in Tai cooking. I have some growing in my backyard for the latter purpose. Commercial firms pushing pseudo-lemon oil products generally put some perfume into the polish to make it smell like lemons, but check the label to make sure the real thing - lemon grass oil - is in the product for really good wood finish. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 6 Sep 1995 15:11:15 GMT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: MEMO 1995/09/06 15:18 From: John E III Taylor Subject: Re: Bleaching Wax >I use Hydrogen Peroxide to >help purify and settle some of the contaminates. This works well but >doesn't really bleach it...like the color of cappings during a strong >flow. Does any one know of a good home remedy to bleach bees wax? Hydrogen peroxide can be obtained from chemical supply houses in a strength of 32% (the normal stuff is only 3%). Diluted to some intermediate concentration, or possibly even used straight, it should do a much better job of bleaching than the 3% solution. A bit of experimentation should help you get it right (start weak and work up in concentration). CAUTION - 32% hydrogen peroxide is a strong oxidizer, and it affects skin by turning it a leprous white and causing it to slough off. Wear gloves and goggles and handle it _very_ carefully. John E. Taylor III W3ZID | "The opinions expressed are those of the E-Mail: mah48d@rohmhaas.com | writer and not of Rohm and Haas Company." ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 6 Sep 1995 13:27:45 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Dan Oetting Subject: Re: Bleaching Wax > I've been rendering some of my bees wax lately, and making >candles, lip balm etc. Some of the wax is nice and light colored while >some is really fairly dark i.e. dirt colored. I use Hydrogen Peroxide to >help purify and settle some of the contaminates. This works well but >doesn't really bleach it...like the color of cappings during a strong >flow. Does any one know of a good home remedy to bleach bees wax? > > Ann In my first attempt to render cappings last year I used boiling water. This left me with brown wax and a nearly imposible cleanup job. The brown wax also lost that wonderfull beeswax arroma. This year I'm using a solar melter to render the cappings. The cappings were washed in cold water to remove the honey. About 3/4ths of the cappings broke up into individual wax scales which were separated from the wash with a 1/6 inch nylon mesh. (1/4 inch mesh may be preferable) The non-cap wax including burr comb and chewed wax was left in larger pieces that didn't pass through ther mesh. I drained and air dried the scales and loaded them in the top of the solar melter. The sugars and contaminates still attached to the wax carmelized and stuck in the top of the melter while the clear wax flowed off. The wax still has it's natural yellow color and arroma. -- Dan Oetting ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 6 Sep 1995 16:01:54 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Mike Griggs Subject: Re: Bleaching Wax I have been doing the candle thing from wax for several years and can suggest several points to assist others. 1. First wax from cappings is of better quality than wax from old frames or from scrapings. I separate the cappings wax from other types. 2. If you get propolis (bee Glue in any wax it will give the wax a gray/brown color and also make the cool wax less brittle. It will stick to candle molds and give an off odor when burning candles. 3. I rinse my capping to remove the honey. I then melt the wax/slumgum (of cleaner hive scrappings) in a large pot of water over a gas stove. After the whole thing cools and the wax/water solution separate I re-melt the semi-clean wax in a pot of clean water. After the wax is molten, it floats, and I use a ladle to scoop the wax from the surface and pouring it into a strainer with old sweat shirt material. I pour into aluminum pie pans or old casserole dishes until, all the wax is removed from the top of the water. There will be some water removed and the wax and water will sepatarate in the pie pan. 4. This wax is very clean and butter yellow (store bought butter color not real home made for those who have not seen the real thing but only the color enhanced product of marketing). 5. Separating out the grey/brown waxes. I either sun bleach some, pour the butter yellow (a local favorite), or dye the greyer wax red or green for Christmas in my candles. The more times the wax is melted the more volitile chemicals are removed and the less odor of bee hive remains. These are my own observations and your mileage may vary. Mike PS Do you know the reason that near the sports arena there are "bleachers"? That was the area where the bee keepers used to sun bleach their wax. >> I've been rendering some of my bees wax lately, and making >>candles, lip balm etc. Some of the wax is nice and light colored while >>some is really fairly dark i.e. dirt colored. I use Hydrogen Peroxide to >>help purify and settle some of the contaminates. This works well but >>doesn't really bleach it...like the color of cappings during a strong >>flow. Does any one know of a good home remedy to bleach bees wax? >> >> Ann > >In my first attempt to render cappings last year I used boiling water. >This left me with brown wax and a nearly imposible cleanup job. The brown >wax also lost that wonderfull beeswax arroma. > >This year I'm using a solar melter to render the cappings. The cappings >were washed in cold water to remove the honey. About 3/4ths of the >cappings broke up into individual wax scales which were separated from the >wash with a 1/6 inch nylon mesh. (1/4 inch mesh may be preferable) The >non-cap wax including burr comb and chewed wax was left in larger pieces >that didn't pass through ther mesh. I drained and air dried the scales and >loaded them in the top of the solar melter. The sugars and contaminates >still attached to the wax carmelized and stuck in the top of the melter >while the clear wax flowed off. The wax still has it's natural yellow >color and arroma. > > > -- Dan Oetting ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 6 Sep 1995 16:58:59 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: JOHN IANNUZZI Subject: Re: Bleaching Wax > > I've been rendering some of my bees wax lately, and making > >candles, lip balm etc. Some of the wax is nice and light colored while > >some is really fairly dark i.e. dirt colored. I use Hydrogen Peroxide to > >help purify and settle some of the contaminates. This works well but > >doesn't really bleach it...like the color of cappings during a strong > >flow. Does any one know of a good home remedy to bleach bees wax? > > > > Ann > > In my first attempt to render cappings last year I used boiling water. > This left me with brown wax and a nearly imposible cleanup job. The brown > wax also lost that wonderfull beeswax arroma. > > This year I'm using a solar melter to render the cappings. The cappings > were washed in cold water to remove the honey. About 3/4ths of the > cappings broke up into individual wax scales which were separated from the > wash with a 1/6 inch nylon mesh. (1/4 inch mesh may be preferable) The > non-cap wax including burr comb and chewed wax was left in larger pieces > that didn't pass through ther mesh. I drained and air dried the scales and > loaded them in the top of the solar melter. The sugars and contaminates > still attached to the wax carmelized and stuck in the top of the melter > while the clear wax flowed off. The wax still has it's natural yellow > color and arroma. > > > -- Dan Oetting > WaxCleaning 6sep95 FOR LIGHT BEESWAX: use cappings only from newly-drawn comb. The easiest way to clean cappings. , (If there is an easier way, please send cable.) 1. Feed the cappings back to the bees immediately. I use a large galv wash tub placed on top of a beehive (I have 21 hives as of the moment). Forget about the boogey of robbing. W/in 24 hrs the caps will B bone dry. 2. Pick out all the dark caps by hand. Pour the remainder into a clean used nylon stocking. Method: stretch the open end over a #10 can (restaurant size), which has both ends removed. 3. Use bread wrapper ties to close both ends. Cut off the closed-end surplus. 4. Agitate the stuffed nylon in a five-gal pail of cold water, repeatedly until the water comes out clear. 5. Suspend nylon until it drip dries (I help by squeezing it first). By the next day, it shud B done. 6. Place nylon in Solar Wax Melter - the only way to purify wax easily, simply, mess-free, fast. 7. SWM preparation: whole prodecure must B spotlessly clean. 8. The large resting pan, spotless, is covered w/ a sheet of freezer wrap (which end down doesn't matter). Note: hardware cloth is NOT used: totally unec. 9. The drip end of the resting pan takes several commercial size coffee filters, sufficient for the nylon to rest on. (If not avail, use reg size: just takes more of them.) 10. A six-inch milk filter is placed at the pan opening, bent 1/4 way up, thru which the melted wax will drip into 11. A collecting pan - usually a spotless one-pound loaf aluminum bread pan. Note: I level it w/ water for show purposes. 12. Result: guaranteed beautiful light block beeswax (mine always come in first at the fairs: this year Howard County Fair and at State Fair, just ended two days ago). One year--forgive the bragadoccio--it came in first at all seven honey shows entered, including the Eastern Apicultural Society. 13. Use block wax for whatever purpose: candles, face cream, Xmas tree ornaments, etcetera. 13. For pix and further description, see John Iannuzzi, "A Solar Wax Melter for Backyard Beekeepers: An easy & inexpensive way of harvesting honey when only a few hives R involved" (Amer BeeJournal (May '82, 324-326) and John Iannuzzi, "Producing Blue-Ribbon Wax: A dis- cussion of the various techniques use in purify- ing beeswax--& the secret behind winning," ABJ (Jun '83, 438-439). 14. What have I missed? Any queries? Bonne chance! Jack the B-man in his 35th consecutive year ******************************* John Iannuzzi PhD * Howard Honey Farms RR8 * 9772 Old Annapolis Rd * Ellicott City (founded 1772) * Maryland usa 21042 * ******************************* ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 6 Sep 1995 17:41:21 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Laura Downey Subject: Bee venom allergy Hi all - A month or so ago I posted some messages regarding the possibility that I was allergic to honey bee venom. I had some serious local reactions, large swellings and itching. I went to the doctor last week, had a blood test done as part of a routine checkup. I also asked the doctor to have it checked for a possible allergy to bee venom. The doctor called me up today and told me to find a new hobby! Not good news. I told him that I was not ready to give up. I asked him what could be done - he said to be completely suited from head to toe, carry an epi-pen and Benadryl. He said that one or two stings wouldn't kill me, but that a large number of them could. I am going to an allergist for additional information and testing. I am not sure how accurate the blood-allergy testing is. Everyone I mention it to has never heard of it (well, none of them were doctors!). I am going to find out if desensitization is possible. Regarding desensitization, does it work for everyone? Is it expensive? Is there anywhere someone can point me to an article or other info about this process? Thank you in advance for all answers, comments, suggestions, etc. This is a beekeeper that is not ready to give up this great hobby! Laura Downey Jessup, Maryland (CORVI29@aol.com) ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 6 Sep 1995 19:04:07 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Peter Gentile Subject: Re: Bee venom allergy In-Reply-To: <950906174115_12562293@mail02.mail.aol.com> On Wed, 6 Sep 1995, Laura Downey wrote: > Hi all - > > A month or so ago I posted some messages regarding the possibility that I > was allergic to honey bee venom. I had some serious local reactions, large > swellings and itching. > > I went to the doctor last week, had a blood test done as part of a routine > checkup. I also asked the doctor to have it checked for a possible allergy > to bee venom. > > The doctor called me up today and told me to find a new hobby! Not good > news. I told him that I was not ready to give up. I asked him what could be > done - he said to be completely suited from head to toe, carry an epi-pen and > Benadryl. He said that one or two stings wouldn't kill me, but that a large > number of them could. > > I am going to an allergist for additional information and testing. I am > not sure how accurate the blood-allergy testing is. Everyone I mention it to > has never heard of it (well, none of them were doctors!). I am going to find > out if desensitization is possible. I have periodically suffered from an allergic reaction for several years now. The blood-allergy test is real, but I don't know how thorough or accurate it is. I have been tested several times by this method with no conclusions. No one knows what causes my reactions, but they are life threatening when they occur. What I'm trying to say is don't put too much faith in the blood-allergy testing. BTW, I'm definitely not allergic to bee venom. Pete, NJ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 6 Sep 1995 20:14:41 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Laura Downey Subject: Re: Bee venom allergy Pete, Thanks for your reply. Memories of my asthma days (I'm no longer an asthmatic) were going to the allergist for tests. The tests involved small needles which pricked the skin. A reaction to whatever was in the needle indicated an allergy. That is why I wondered about the blood test. It must be something new (I had asthma 15-20 years ago). I'll be going to the allergist, who I hope will give me a more thorough test. I'll also get more information as to what I can do. Hopefully, the allergist will understand my "need" to keep bees. Laura (CORVI29@aol.com) ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 6 Sep 1995 18:03:47 -0800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jay Jones Subject: Re: Bleaching Wax Hydrogen peroxide at those concentrations can be pretty dangerous. What about filtering through activated charcoal? Jay Jones jonesj@ulvacs.ulaverne.edu ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 6 Sep 1995 19:41:02 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Kim Patten Subject: Re: Sevin XLR Because it "has smaller size particles and a better sticker regular sevin" it is apparently is less hot on bees than regular sevin. I have bee keepers who swear that it is quite safe when applied correctly. Based on my data it appears that this is a function of climate. Under dry warm climate of eastern Washington this is likely true. However, under the moist climate of coastal washington it appears to be not as safe as we had hoped. . My bioassay system, however, may not be adequate to discern this sort of differences. A lot also depends on what you are try to control, as there may be better and safer insecticides. At 08:33 AM 8/31/95 CST6CDT, you wrote: >Anyone have information on Sevin XLR and effect on honey bees. > >Rodney Holloway > > Kim Patten Washington State University Long Beach Research and Extension Unit Rt. 1, Box 570, Long Beach WA 98631 phone and fax 360-642-2031 e-mail pattenk@coopext.cahe.wsu.edu ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 6 Sep 1995 21:59:10 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Liz Day Subject: Re: Bleaching Wax I don't know what concentration hydrogen peroxide is used to bleach hair, but it's more than 3% and it's strong stuff. The fumes will knock you over and you should never ever get it near your eyes. Liz Day LDAY@indy.net Indianapolis, Indiana, central USA ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 6 Sep 1995 22:12:51 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Liz Day Subject: Re: Furniture cream -- a dilema. Well..... I still think that the lemon oil is usually from lemon rinds, just like orange oil comes from orange rinds. I used to work at a food flavoring company, and no one mentioned lemon grass. There is also a lemon-scented mint, but I doubt that is in the picture. ????? Liz Day LDAY@indy.net Pink Inchworm Ranch Indianapolis, Indiana, central USA ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 6 Sep 1995 22:34:02 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Brian K. Cooley" Subject: Re: Removing bees from bee trees (advice requested) Comments: To: "Conrad A. Berube" In-Reply-To: <199509060045.RAA21167@vifa1.freenet.victoria.bc.ca> Your best bet would probably be to use a mild pesticide on the hive (if you do not want to salvage the colony). I wouldn't be too worried about leaving honey in the tree. It could get some good fungal and bacterial growth and this could have a detrimental effect on the tree. Unfortunately, there is no way to tell with out actually doing it. But once the bees are removed or killed you could probably easily extract most of the honey easily enough. Sulpher would burn hot enough to ignite the tree. You may be able to obtain a powdered sulpher with additives that slow the burning so that the material doesn't generate as much heat. However, do not try grinding the material yourself with the intent of adding things to it. Most metals are highly combustible when finely ground. If I remember I will look up the physical characteristics of elemental sulpher so that you will know for sure. Brian K. Cooley Environmental Consulting & Biological Services 1899 El Centro Drive Columbia, Missouri 65201 email: bcooley@mail.coin.missouri.edu phone: 314-474-3941 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 6 Sep 1995 22:51:09 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Brian K. Cooley" Subject: Re: Bleaching Wax In-Reply-To: <01HUYQUMF22W004OWC@ULVACS.ULAVERNE.EDU> Brian K. Cooley Environmental Consulting & Biological Services 1899 El Centro Drive Columbia, Missouri 65201 email: bcooley@mail.coin.missouri.edu phone: 314-474-3941 On Wed, 6 Sep 1995, Jay Jones wrote: > Hydrogen peroxide at those concentrations can be pretty dangerous. What > about filtering through activated charcoal? > > Jay Jones > jonesj@ulvacs.ulaverne.edu > As funny as it may seem the Department of Transportation would consider activated charcoal nearly as dangerous as 36% hydrogen peroxide which is silly. Activated charcoal can present somewhat of a fire hazard but combustion potential certainly is not as great as with that concentration of and oxidizer hitting and organic compound! ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 6 Sep 1995 22:46:56 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Kim Patten Subject: Re: Heather honey and pollen With all the talk about heather honey let me toss out another subject along those lines. I am currently evaluating heather and heath species for their attractiveness to bumble bees. I am most in interested in bloom in very early spring and mid to late summer. I have about 10 species/cultivar that look good, but am curious if anyone has any comments on the subject. The main purpose is to help build up feral population of certain species of bumble bees by providing nectar and pollen producing plants during several times of the year when nothing else of value is blooming. Kim Patten Washington State University Long Beach Research and Extension Unit Rt. 1, Box 570, Long Beach WA 98631 phone and fax 360-642-2031 e-mail pattenk@coopext.cahe.wsu.edu ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 7 Sep 1995 02:16:46 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Dave D. Cawley, a De Leon Socialist" Subject: Re: Bee venom allergy > From: Laura Downey > I'll be going to the allergist, who I hope will give me a more thorough > test. I'll also get more information as to what I can do. Hopefully, the > allergist will understand my "need" to keep bees. In my whole year of being a beekeeper I've learned that unless *he's* a beekeeper, he won't understand your "need" to keep bees and think you're a crackpot who needs therapy for more than allergies...8-} ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Dave D. Cawley | The information on the Internet is only University Of Scranton | interesting to people who are interested Scranton, Pennsylvania | in it. dave@scranton.com | -Scranton Tomorrow Spokeswoman ddc1@jaguar.uofs.edu | refusing invitation to Internet Cafe's opening ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 7 Sep 1995 06:11:08 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: MIKE HOLLOWAY Subject: Important information for YOUR success WOULD YOU LIKE TO MAKE ALOT OF MONEY? I have made a fortune in the AMWAY Business opportunity. For more information on how YOU can be a distributor for the most exciting business opportunity of the 90's, ... PLEASE SEND AN E-MAIL REPLY TO: mhollowa@cris.com (MIKE HOLLOWAY). I will be happy to discuss YOUR FUTURE in detail in this lucrative business! Best Wishes for your Future SUCCESS! MIKE ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 7 Sep 1995 08:34:03 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Larry Farris Subject: Re: Bee venom allergy >> >Dave D. Cawley | The information on the Internet is only >University Of Scranton | interesting to people who are interested >Scranton, Pennsylvania | in it. >dave@scranton.com | -Scranton Tomorrow Spokeswoman >ddc1@jaguar.uofs.edu | refusing invitation to Internet Cafe's opening >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~ > >An aside comment: GREAT QOUTE, Dave !!! Reminds me of the 1880's - 1890's U.S. government official who told congress that you could do away with the Patent Office ... since all the inventions had been made, it was no longer needed! Should she really be a spokesperson for Scranton TOMORROW? ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 7 Sep 1995 10:09:10 GMT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: MEMO 1995/09/07 10:15 From: John E III Taylor Subject: Re[2]: Bleaching Wax > Hydrogen peroxide at those concentrations can be pretty dangerous. What > about filtering through activated charcoal? > > Jay Jones > jonesj@ulvacs.ulaverne.edu No doubt that it's dangerous! When I used it, I used to somehow get droplets splattered onto my skin, with the resulting little pure-white spots. Never noticed the splatters when they happened, but they always seemed to. The concentrated peroxide should never be used without adequate protective equipment, and I'd say a face shield would be included in that equipment. Liz--you wouldn't use the concentrated peroxide on hair! You'd lose hair, scalp and all, I suspect. I'd guess they use some dilution that's stronger than 3% but way more dilute than 30%. I'm a bit skeptical about the ability of charcoal to adsorb the color from wax, but it might work. Anybody ever try it? John E. Taylor III W3ZID | "The opinions expressed are those of the E-Mail: mah48d@rohmhaas.com | writer and not of Rohm and Haas Company." ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 7 Sep 1995 10:28:08 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Marc Party Subject: AMWAY Before we all send out expletives via the discussion group to our friend from AMWAY, I suggest we send our personal messages directly to his address. I doubt he will be monitoring the bee discussion group for replies. This will avoid the numerous non-relevant replies distributed to all of us, as in the case of our Russian woman friend several weeks ago. I let him know already that if beekeepers were interested in making lots of money, they certainly would not be keeping bees!!! (And that his message was as welcome among us as seagull droppings.) Cheers to all of you! Marc Patry Ottawa, Ontario I thank the god of the nectars for such a great season! ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 7 Sep 1995 11:04:59 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Kelley Rosenlund Subject: Waggle dance part 2 I have 2 hives at my home. Yesterday evening (5:45) I came home with several supers of honey in the bed of my truck. At 7:30 there were a bunch of bees around the truck (of course!). I moved my truck several yards late last night in hopes I would be able to leave for work this morning with few hitch hikers. At 7:15 this morning there was a BUNCH of bees where my truck was. A few had found where I had moved my truck. My question is this: When a source of nectar/pollen is removed, do the bees tell the rest of the hive NOT to go there or do the bees just have to find out on their own? God Bless, Kelley Rosenlund Gainesville, Fla. U.S.A., 32 hives ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 7 Sep 1995 11:08:26 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Kelley Rosenlund Subject: Re: Important information for YOUR success >WOULD YOU LIKE TO MAKE ALOT OF MONEY? I have made a fortune in the AMWAY >Business opportunity. For more information on how YOU can be a distributor >for the most exciting business opportunity of the 90's, ... >PLEASE SEND AN E-MAIL REPLY TO: mhollowa@cris.com (MIKE HOLLOWAY). > >I will be happy to discuss YOUR FUTURE in detail in this lucrative business! > >Best Wishes for your Future SUCCESS! > >MIKE Please do not spam me. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 7 Sep 1995 06:42:49 -1000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Kevin Roddy Subject: Re: Important information for YOUR success Comments: To: mhollowa@cris.com In-Reply-To: I guess I'll be the first to complain about this but c'mon-- Amway commericals on the Bee Biology list? Mike, there have got to be other avenues of getting customers than doing this--this is a breach of nettiquette to say the least, and an annoying post to have to sit through. I'm sure that if any beekeepers wanted to be distributors, they would be. And you have to fight off people who want you to become a distributor anyway with a stick. kevin roddy hilo, hawaii ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 7 Sep 1995 09:58:38 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: John Day Subject: Re: Important information for YOUR success now, how do we as beekeepers get onto the amway list to solicite them to become beekeepers? AND, how do we get the amway folks to buy our products?? oooooh - could be good fun here...... john ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 7 Sep 1995 10:18:26 PDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jane Beckman Subject: Re: Furniture cream -- a dilema. If you go back several centuries, when lemon grass was most distinctly not around, you'll find the furniture polish was composed of lemon *rind* oil, beeswax, and sometimes sweet oil added in (sweet oil is a highly refined olive oil). Jane B. [jane@swdc.stratus.com] ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 7 Sep 1995 14:25:26 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: WILLIAM G LORD Subject: Re: Important information for YOUR success In-Reply-To: <199509071508.LAA49521@freenet2.freenet.ufl.edu> from "Kelley Rosenlund" at Sep 7, 95 11:08:26 am Dear Mike: This may be beyond comprehension, but do I not want to make a lot of money. If I were money hungry I might resort to cluttering this list with vulgar pleas for others to join the feeding frenzy. KEEP YOUR AMWAY STUFF OFF THE LIST! Best regards, Bill Lord >>WOULD YOU LIKE TO MAKE ALOT OF MONEY? I have made a fortune in the AMWAY >>Business opportunity. For more information on how YOU can be a distributor >>for the most exciting business opportunity of the 90's, ... >>PLEASE SEND AN E-MAIL REPLY TO: mhollowa@cris.com (MIKE HOLLOWAY). >> >>I will be happy to discuss YOUR FUTURE in detail in this lucrative business! >> >>Best Wishes for your Future SUCCESS! >> >>MIKE > > >Please do not spam me. > -- WILLIAM G LORD E-Mail : wglord@franklin Internet: wglord@franklin.ces.ncsu.edu Phone : 9194963344 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 7 Sep 1995 10:13:35 -1000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Kevin Roddy Subject: Pollination businesses In-Reply-To: <9509071425.AA19866@franklin.ces.ncsu.edu> Anyone on the list active in the pollination business? I'm curious as to contractual wording, liability of all individuals that set foot on the property regarding bee stings, etc. and just general information about the business. I am currently reading a book entitled "Following the Bloom: across America with the migratory beekeepers" by Douglas Whynott, Beacon Press, 1991) It is informative but I'd like more. "Bee Culture" and "American Bee Journal" don't appear to be indexed in any online or printed reference we have here at the University. Thanks for any information that can be provided. kevin roddy university of hawaii at hilo kroddy@hawaii.edu ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 7 Sep 1995 18:17:00 GMT Reply-To: ibra@matheson.demon.co.uk Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: ibra Subject: Interspecific competition There's been some discussion lately about competition between bee species, especially honey bees and other bees. I thought I'd add a little from what IBRA has been contributing to the debate recently. We organized a scientific symposium on bee conservation in April, and I summarized for BEE-L one of the poster papers on the possible negative effects of introducing non-native honey bees to natural areas (in New Zealand). The symposium has now been written up for the latest issue of Bee World by Robert Paxton, and this is from his report. "The impact of honey bees on wild bees has generated much heated debate in beekeeping and more esoteric academic circles alike, and one of the four sessions at the meeting was entirely devoted to presentations addressing this issue. Competition between honey bees and wild bees is notoriously difficult to demonstrate in the field (Roubik, Smithsonian Tropical Research Institute, Panama), possibly, Thorp (University of California) suggested, because of the past elimination of those wild bee species most sensitive to such competition. "However, a view prevailed that honey bees (Buchmann, USDA Tucson), or even Bombus terrestris (Dafni & Schmida, University of Haifa and University of Jerusalem), are likely to compete with other bee species under some situations, and recent empirical evidence has demonstrated a negative impact of honey bees on the foraging and reproduction of wild bees in Germany, where honey bees are themselves indigenous. "In a more constructive vein, Sugden et al. suggest that we should aim to define the conditions under which inter-specific competition exist, and Corbet's (University of Cambridge) 'competition box' provides a novel and potentially useful experimental paradigm by which to do so". Proceedings from this meeting will be published jointly by IBRA, The Linnean Society of London and Academic Press early next year. The next issue of Bee World will have a fascinating review of competition between honey bees and native bees in Australia. More than in most other countries where honey bees have been introduced, beekeepers in Australia are facing increased calls for the exclusion of their business or hobby from conservation areas. This debate will not go away, until a lot more discussion and analysis have taken place. Andrew -- ************************************************************************** * From Andrew Matheson, Director, International Bee Research Association * * * * E.mail (home): ibra@matheson.demon.co.uk * * (office): ibra@cardiff.ac.uk * * * * IBRA, 18 North Road, Cardiff CF1 3DY, UK * * Fax (+44) 1222-665522 Telephone (+44) 1222-372409 * * http://www.cardiff.ac.uk/ibra/index.html * * * ************************************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 7 Sep 1995 10:52:29 -1000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Thomas W. Culliney -- Dept. of Agriculture" Subject: Re: Important information for YOUR success In-Reply-To: <199509071658.JAA27547@luminary.sanjose.compass-da.com> Send flames, irate comments, howls of outrage, etc. to Amway at: dooley@mindport.net ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 7 Sep 1995 18:20:55 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Keith Benson Subject: Re: Important information for YOUR success You wrote: > >WOULD YOU LIKE TO MAKE ALOT OF MONEY? I have made a fortune in the AMWAY >Business opportunity. For more information on how YOU can be a distributor >for the most exciting business opportunity of the 90's, ... >PLEASE SEND AN E-MAIL REPLY TO: mhollowa@cris.com (MIKE HOLLOWAY). > >I will be happy to discuss YOUR FUTURE in detail in this lucrative business! > >Best Wishes for your Future SUCCESS! > >MIKE > Dear Mike, Please do not clutter the internet with such drivel. The BEElist is NOT for such gratuitous advertising. Sincerely, Keith ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 7 Sep 1995 23:38:27 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Pete Subject: Re: Bee venom allergy In-Reply-To: <01HUZ80UJTZ6HXJYF9@JAGUAR.UOFS.EDU> On Thu, 7 Sep 1995, Dave D. Cawley, a De Leon Socialist wrote: > > From: Laura Downey > > I'll be going to the allergist, who I hope will give me a more thorough > > test. I'll also get more information as to what I can do. Hopefully, the > > allergist will understand my "need" to keep bees. > > In my whole year of being a beekeeper I've learned that unless > *he's* a beekeeper, he won't understand your "need" to keep bees and > think you're a crackpot who needs therapy for more than allergies...8-} > Aint that the truth! When I started beekeeping I asked my doctor if he could test me for bee venom allergies. He wanted know why and I told him I wanted to keep bees. He stated, "You're a pretty weird dude." Pete, NJ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 7 Sep 1995 23:32:15 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Pete Subject: Re: Important information for YOUR success In-Reply-To: <199509080120.SAA25374@ix9.ix.netcom.com> On Thu, 7 Sep 1995, Keith Benson wrote: > You wrote: > > > >WOULD YOU LIKE TO MAKE ALOT OF MONEY? I have made a fortune in the > AMWAY > >Business opportunity. For more information on how YOU can be a > distributor > >for the most exciting business opportunity of the 90's, ... > >PLEASE SEND AN E-MAIL REPLY TO: mhollowa@cris.com (MIKE HOLLOWAY). > > > >I will be happy to discuss YOUR FUTURE in detail in this lucrative > business! > > > >Best Wishes for your Future SUCCESS! > > > >MIKE > > > Dear Mike, > > Please do not clutter the internet with such drivel. The BEElist is > NOT for such gratuitous advertising. > > Sincerely, > > Keith Hi all. Check Mike's e-mail address. I sent him a flame message and it was returned as address unknown. So why don't we forget this idiot Mike and get on with bee business. Posting flames to Mike here will probably do no good. Pete, NJ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 7 Sep 1995 23:12:12 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Liz Day Subject: Re: Important information for YOUR success Write Mr. Holloway or the postmaster at his address and bitch to them - he probably isn't reading the bee-line. (I'm glad we seldom get such people!) Liz Day LDAY@indy.net Indianapolis, Indiana, central USA ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 7 Sep 1995 23:21:11 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Rob Bidleman Subject: Re: AMWAY In-Reply-To: <9509071428.AA24103@emr1.emr.ca> On Thu, 7 Sep 1995, Marc Party wrote: > Before we all send out expletives via the discussion group to our friend > from AMWAY, I suggest we send our personal messages directly to his address. ** Better yet send the complaints along with his email address to: postmaster@cris.com Robbee - ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 7 Sep 1995 23:29:43 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Rob Bidleman Subject: Re: Important information for YOUR success In-Reply-To: <9509071425.AA19866@franklin.ces.ncsu.edu> On Thu, 7 Sep 1995, WILLIAM G LORD wrote: > list with vulgar pleas for others to join the feeding frenzy. KEEP > YOUR AMWAY STUFF OFF THE LIST! ** I suggest you all call the administrator of CRIS.COM (Cris Kotaka) at: (800) 745-2747 or email him at: arch@cris.com and let him know about this poor soul who is polluting the list. It will be much more effective than echoing Mr. Holloway's crap over and over on this banwidth. Robbee - ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 7 Sep 1995 16:15:07 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: WILLIAM G LORD Subject: Re: Important information for YOUR success In-Reply-To: <199509071658.JAA27547@luminary.sanjose.compass-da.com> from "John Day" at Sep 7, 95 09:58:38 am Hi all; I suggest we all send personal messages to MR. AMWAY until his mailbox runneth over. I asked him for his street address and fax number too, you never know, he may want to subscribe to some magazines. -- WILLIAM G LORD E-Mail : wglord@franklin Internet: wglord@franklin.ces.ncsu.edu Phone : 9194963344 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Sep 1995 09:27:16 CDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Phil Wood Subject: Amway problem done? In-Reply-To: ; from "Rob Bidleman" at Sep 7, 95 11:29 pm Perhaps the problem has been solved. When the note first appeared, I replied to both this person and the postmaster of the site, and received mail back that this user address was not found at this site any more. Maybe his account's been deleted already- Hopefully the last msg we'll hear about this- Phil Wood wood@psysparc.psyc.missouri.edu ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Sep 1995 10:56:47 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: JOHN IANNUZZI Subject: HFCS Help! Comments: cc: jr0002@epfl2.epflbalto.org, fkovac@CapAccess.org Dear Friends, 1. A friend wants to know how to use High Fructose Corn Syrup. 2. Is it cut? At what ratio? 3. Don't use it. Settle for bakery sugar sweepings, 1 to 1 ratio, doing it right now. 4. Each Boardman feeder hive is taking a half gallon daily! 5. Thanks in advance. Ciao. Jack the B-man 21 hives ******************************* John Iannuzzi PhD * Howard Honey Farms RR8 * 9772 Old Annapolis Rd * Ellicott City (founded 1772) * Maryland usa 21042 * ******************************* ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Sep 1995 10:14:18 -0500 Reply-To: Wendy Stevens Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Wendy Stevens Subject: Re: Bee venom allergy In message <950906174115_12562293@mail02.mail.aol.com> Discussion of Bee Biology writes: > Hi all - > > A month or so ago I posted some messages regarding the possibility that I > was allergic to honey bee venom. I had some serious local reactions, large > swellings and itching. > > I went to the doctor last week, had a blood test done as part of a routine > checkup. I also asked the doctor to have it checked for a possible allergy > to bee venom. > > The doctor called me up today and told me to find a new hobby! Not good > news. I told him that I was not ready to give up. I asked him what could be > done - he said to be completely suited from head to toe, carry an epi-pen and > Benadryl. He said that one or two stings wouldn't kill me, but that a large > number of them could. > > I am going to an allergist for additional information and testing. I am > not sure how accurate the blood-allergy testing is. Everyone I mention it to > has never heard of it (well, none of them were doctors!). I am going to find > out if desensitization is possible. > > Regarding desensitization, does it work for everyone? Is it expensive? > Is there anywhere someone can point me to an article or other info about > this process? > > Thank you in advance for all answers, comments, suggestions, etc. This is > a beekeeper that is not ready to give up this great hobby! > > Laura Downey > Jessup, Maryland > (CORVI29@aol.com) > I am a beekeeper's wife, and I had anti-venom therapy or desensitization to honey bee venom in 1982. My symptoms were similar to Laura's--incredible swelling, itching and also lots of nose drippiness and this throaty cough within several minutes of being stung. I have heard that people who are around bees and handle bee venom on clothing (ie laundry) but get stung infrequently are those most prone to develop allergic reactions to bee stings. A local physician who specialized in such matters gave me a skin test, basically injecting different concentrations of venom under the surface of my skin to check the reaction. The therapy consisted of 12 sessions one week apart where I was given injections of purified bee venom in increasing intensity. At that time (remember, this was 1982) the initial testing was about $21 and the subsequent sessions were $12 each. I have no idea what you should multiply that by to get today's rates. Once the desensitation was completed, I was to return every 6 weeks for the rest of my life to get a booster injection of venom. I said nuts to that and had my beekeeping husband get a bee from our hives and squeeze her gently on to my upper arm to get my stings. The upper arm is used so you can tourniquet a little higher up if you start getting a reaction and things get out of control. It was interesting to note that the physician I went to was paniced to hear that I was planning to do my own "injections" at home. He thought I should take a bee up to Mayo Clinic 70 miles away so they could be responsible if things went not so well. I assured him that I would do the first sting on a weekday during normal work hours so as not to inconvience the local hospital should I need assistance. Obviously he didn't really think a person would actually get stung after having this therapy. I had my first sting 3 weeks after desensitation. I still had some symptoms and so shortened the time between stings to 10 days. That worked perfectly and within 2 years I worked up to 6 weeks between stings (sometimes 7 weeks if I forget) with no reaction. I do have to keep the stinger in my arm for at least 3 minutes to make sure that I get adequate venom. And I can tell you that there is a whopping difference in pain level between the venom from guard bees and venom from foraging workers. There was an article in one of the bee journals a couple of years ago on this subject. Maybe someone out there has the citation available. Wendy Stevens ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Sep 1995 11:35:38 EDT Reply-To: "Glen B. Glater" Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Glen B. Glater" Subject: Re: Important information for YOUR success Fellow Bee-listers: As a beekeeper *and* and Internet consultant, let me jump in here to explain a bit about the Mike Holloway Amway mail. This mail was sent from an account at an Internet provider called Interramp. The email address it came from was exd01717@pop2.interramp.com. You can see that at the top of the message. The address mhollowa@cris.com was made up. There never was such an account. Perhaps the sender wanted to annoy someone there. Who knows? I did send mail to the postmaster there letting him know that this had happened, and he said that they are "investigating". I checked the users on the list, and there are no "non-'concealed'" users that use the interramp.com service. There are 3 concealed users, and I don't have a way to tell who they are. Perhaps Erik or Mary Jo know more about that. At any rate, this was clearly the work of someone trying to bother both us here on the bee-list and the folks at Concentric Research Corp. (cris.com). Flaming the folks at Concentric won't help, and, unless the sender is one of us, posting here won't help either. The end... --glen ************************************************************** Midnight Networks Inc. * 200 Fifth Avenue * Waltham, MA 02154 Glen B. Glater Principal, Strategic Networking Group Phone: (617) 890-1001 Fax: (617) 890-0028 Internet: glen@midnight.com The Best in Network Software ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Sep 1995 10:43:43 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Michael Stoops Subject: Re: Liz's hand lotion In-Reply-To: <01HUQQ9K0GLU91XYX1@JAGUAR.UOFS.EDU> Liz, Pipe smoking might be nice for the people around you, but not for the smoker. I tried once a long time ago. When you smoke the pipe, you can't smell it. Better to just give up smoking entirely. Know that's hard to do. MIKE (Used to live in Carmel) ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Sep 1995 12:31:32 -0400 Reply-To: Mason Harris Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Mason Harris Subject: extractor Hi Bee Folks! first let me appoligize if this is inappropriate to make this post to this list. Sorry! My EDU. server will not let me have access to the other Bee news groups wher this may be more apporpriate, but... I am looking for a used, motorized Stainless steel, radial extractor which can handle about 5-6 frames at a time in good condition. I have contacted many of the suppliers and have come up with only huge commercial extractors for sale. If anyone has one in good condition, please contact me personally through my E-mail address. Thanks! P.S. Is there a central source for used bee keeping equipment in the U.S.that I don't know about? Mason Harris Burlingame, CA E-Mail: SMHARRIS@ED.CO.SANMATEO.CA.US ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Sep 1995 10:52:43 +0000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Allen Dick Organization: The Beekeepers Subject: Re: extractor > Hi Bee Folks! > > first let me appoligize if this is inappropriate to make this post to this > list. Sorry! I don't know why you are posting this to the hand lotion, furniture polish and and SPAM discussion group ;) Welcome - I hope we can help. This is *not* inappropriate. It is in fact the first post in many relating to bees and beekeeping on this list. > My EDU. server will not let me have access to the other Bee > news groups wher this may be more apporpriate, but... Please email if you know of other beekeeping lists. I'd be interested. > I am looking for a used, motorized Stainless steel, radial extractor which can > handle about 5-6 frames at a time in good condition. I have contacted many of > the suppliers and have come up with only huge commercial extractors for sale. You may have trouble finding what you want in stainless steel. but there are tons of old galvanized four frame hand crank units out there for $50 that can be converted to power with a furnace fan motor. If you get one, I'll give you details. there is nothing wrong with galvanized if you don't leave honey sitting in it. Honey coats the surface and the rest of the honey touches only that coating. Then later when you wash it with *cold* water, the honey that has touched the metal goes down the drain - not that it is particularly contaminated with zinc. > If anyone has one in good condition, please contact me personally through my > E-mail address. Classified ads in Gleanings, ABJ and Speedy Bee are only about $10/issue and really pull results. They take credit card payment over the phone or fax. You might try there. > P.S. Is there a central source for used bee keeping equipment in the U.S.that > I don't know about? The classifieds. Regards Allen W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper VE6CFK Rural Route One, Swalwell, Alberta Canada T0M 1Y0 Honey. Bees, Art, & Futures ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Sep 1995 14:31:57 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Pete Subject: Re: extractor In-Reply-To: <9509081654.AA04110@cuugnet.cuug.ab.ca> On Fri, 8 Sep 1995, Allen Dick wrote: > > > My EDU. server will not let me have access to the other Bee > > news groups wher this may be more apporpriate, but... There is a newsgroup: sci.agriculture.beekeeping. It does not seem to be very active, it probably could use more traffic. > Please email if you know of other beekeeping lists. I'd be > interested. Please post on this list if anyone knows of more. > > I am looking for a used, motorized Stainless steel, radial extractor which can > > handle about 5-6 frames at a time in good condition. I have contacted many of > > the suppliers and have come up with only huge commercial extractors for sale. Try your local beekeeper's assoc. I have gotten very good deals thru mine. If you need to find one try the local agricultural extension service. They keep a list of associations. There are always beekeeper's quiting or retiring from beekeeping. I got completely set up in beekeeping with about three hives and a stainless steel extractor for $60.00!!! Hope this helps. Pete, NJ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Sep 1995 14:47:02 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Phil Veldhuis Subject: HELP! Disp. Sugar research question In-Reply-To: from "Gordon Scott" at Aug 31, 95 09:22:13 pm HELP: I need to feed bees their sugar syrup from a lowpressure pipeline system. I need to find/design a dispensing apparatus that will supply the hives with syrup "on demand". The idea is a bulk feeding system that would service many hives. I want to test/evaluate new feeding systems... I have been told that similar systems are used in Asia, but have been unable to find any specifics. Ideas or suggestions? PLs post to me, and I'll summarize to the group. My email address is below. -- ------------oooooooooooooooOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOooooooooooooo------------- Phil Veldhuis | If I must be a fool, as all those who reason Winnipeg. MB, Canada | or believe any thing certainly are, my follies veldhui@cc.umanitoba.ca | shall at least be natural and agreeable. David Hume (1739) ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 9 Sep 1995 09:49:25 +0000 Reply-To: mbrosseau@mhv.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Marianne Brosseau Subject: Bee 'infestation' I just joined your list to ask if anyone could help me with a problem friends are having with a bee infestation in their home. They are particularly concerned because they have a newborn baby in the house. They live in Hyde Park NY. Yesterday they found several live bees inside the house on the first floor. They found several 'holes' in the outside of the house, and can hear bees buzzing inside the walls. They called an extermination who inserted some type of dry powder in the holes. He said that the bees would eat this and die. Could anyone tell them if this is an effective treatment for getting rid of the bees? Is there any type of treatment they could use themselves if they still observe bees rather than re-calling the exterminator? Is this treatment safe to use around a newborn? They and I will very much appreciate any assistance you can give. Marianne -- Marianne Brosseau ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 9 Sep 1995 12:41:06 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Pete Gentile Subject: Re: Bee 'infestation' Comments: To: Marianne Brosseau In-Reply-To: <9509091400.AB23488@mhv.net> On Sat, 9 Sep 1995, Marianne Brosseau wrote: > They live in Hyde Park NY. Yesterday they found > several live bees inside the house on the first floor. > They found several 'holes' in the outside of the house, > and can hear bees buzzing inside the walls. > > They called an extermination who inserted > some type of dry powder in the holes. He said > that the bees would eat this and die. > > Could anyone tell them if this is an effective > treatment for getting rid of the bees? Is there > any type of treatment they could use themselves > if they still observe bees rather than re-calling > the exterminator? Is this treatment safe to use > around a newborn? Hi Marianne, First off, are they sure that they are bees? Wasps and hornets are frequently mistaken as bees. If they are bees, they may or may not eat whatever the exterminator applied. I'm assuming it was some kind of sugar-pesticde mixture, although I've never hear off using something like that. The bees may forsake the sugar placed in the hive for natural nectar. If the bees clean it up it may not kill all of them. If it is successful, there will be honey left in the walls of the house. This will cause much greater problems than the live bees. If I were them I would contact a local beekeeper for possitive identification. You can find a beekeeper thru the local beekeeper's assoc. The local agricultural extension office can supply you with a list of associations and their phone numbers. If for some reason they cannot geta list e-mail me and I'll help you out. Pete, NJ ______________________________________________________________________________ The Paranormal Pub | Newsletter | A Thing is impossible until it is not! PO Box 313 | Tuckerton, NJ 08087 | USA | _________________________|____________________________________________________ "Science is not all known and logic is nebulous." ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 9 Sep 1995 14:51:06 -0500 Reply-To: godave@infi.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Dave Johnson Organization: mailhost.nr.infi.net Subject: wax worms Despite my best efforts, I have lost my first hive and now have my first experience with wax worms. I salvaged four full frames of capped honey from the hive which had just begun with the worms. They are nearly free from visible evidence of worms, although trails are visible on two of the frames. The hive had become queenless and was being robbed out. It showed no evidence of brood disease. I suspect varoaa mites as they are in my yard. Those frames are now in the freezer. Question: After several days there, can I put those honey frames into another hive without fear of introducing worms to them? Thanks in advance. Dave Johnson email: godave@infi.net ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 9 Sep 1995 18:52:35 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Laura Downey Subject: Seasonal expectations Hello all - I live in Maryland. I am wondering what I should expect to see in my hives at this time of year in the way of larvae, capped cells, and young bees? Will the bees that are born now be the ones that will overwinter, or is that a little later on? I have noticed that there are some empty spaces in frames - i.e. no honey or brood. Is this normal? I am feeding them 1:1 sugar syrup now with Fumidil-B added. They go through it rather quickly. Laura Downey (CORVI29@aol.com) ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 9 Sep 1995 23:23:11 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Steven A. Davis" Subject: Red Clover Ok guys and gals, I'm taking an unofficial poll. Farmers grow alot of red clover (not crimson) around here. I've been told that this isn't much of a honey plant because the throat of the flower is too long for most bees. I've also been told that Italians will make a crop from this because of their longer tonge. So lets hear the "truth" from you more experienced folks. Is it worth me chasing after this stuff for honey or should I charge for pollination? Steven A. Davis Clackamas Co. OR ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 10 Sep 1995 01:14:36 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Pete Gentile Subject: Re: Red Clover In-Reply-To: <950909232310_95529125@emout04.mail.aol.com> On Sat, 9 Sep 1995, Steven A. Davis wrote: > Ok guys and gals, I'm taking an unofficial poll. Farmers grow alot of red > clover (not crimson) around here. I've been told that this isn't much of a > honey plant because the throat of the flower is too long for most bees. I've > also been told that Italians will make a crop from this because of their > longer tonge. So lets hear the "truth" from you more experienced folks. Is > it worth me chasing after this stuff for honey or should I charge for > pollination? > Steven A. Davis > Clackamas Co. OR Hmm, that's funny, I've heard that Caucasions can utilize red clover because of their long tongue. I'd be interested in hearing other opinions also. Pete, NJ ______________________________________________________________________________ The Paranormal Pub | Newsletter | A Thing is impossible until it is not! PO Box 313 | Tuckerton, NJ 08087 | USA | _________________________|____________________________________________________ "Science is not all known and logic is nebulous." ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 10 Sep 1995 11:51:33 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Steve Payne Subject: Re: Bee 'infestation' What sort of problems will there be by the honey left in the walls? How would one get rid of the honey? - Steve >If it is successful, there will be honey left in the walls of the house. >This will cause much greater problems than the live bees. >> They live in Hyde Park NY. Yesterday they found >> several live bees inside the house on the first floor. >> They found several 'holes' in the outside of the house, >> and can hear bees buzzing inside the walls. >> >> They called an extermination who inserted >> some type of dry powder in the holes. He said >> that the bees would eat this and die. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 10 Sep 1995 13:17:10 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Steven A. Davis" Subject: Emergency Bee Friends, I have something of an emergency (well for me it is) that I need your advice on. I just bought 60 hive bodies from a retired beekeeper who swore to me that he never had a problem with foulbrood. He maintained that he had his hives registered with the state and they were inspected twice a year. He even allowed that he fed Terramiacin year round. Yes even during the honey flow. His comment was Antibiotics are cheap . So much for the background. I have been spending free time the last two weeks cleaning up frames, removing the old comb (wax moth destroyed) and scraping propolis. Never once did I see scale in any of the combs. I found only 4 or 5 capped cells among thousands. When I uncapped these there was no scale or anything the cell was empty. Upon the advice of another beekeeper I sent a sample of comb (with the 4 or 5 uncapped cells) to the Bee Diseaze Lab in Maryland. It came back positive for AFB. Now I m confused. Does this mean that the whole bunch of equipment is junk? There is no indication on the diagnosis sheet which indicates to me -how many- spores were detected. In other words I don t know the extent of infestation. Don t all hives have some AFB spores? Is it possible to send any brood comb from any hive and have it come back negative? I am not an experienced beekeeper. But I ve seen plenty of photos of AFB scale. Never did I see any residue in the cells. I looked particularly close at those that the wax moths had not (apparently) gotten to yet. What should I do? Steve pmgeophys@aol.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 10 Sep 1995 14:39:53 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Pete Gentile Subject: Re: Bee 'infestation' In-Reply-To: <199509101551.LAA28115@kirk.dnaco.net> On Sun, 10 Sep 1995, Steve Payne wrote: > What sort of problems will there be by the honey left in the walls? How > would one get rid of the honey? > - Steve Depending on the size of the wall cavity that the bee colony occupies, there could be well over 100lbs of honey stored there. With no bees to maintain temperature or defend the hive several things could happen. The temperature inside the wall could rise causing the wax comb to melt, allowing the honey to seep out. Honey seeping through your walls is is only good if you are a fly, nat, ant or a yeast cell! The bugs will have a feast and the yeast will ferment the honey and stink. Besides ants and flys, wasps, other bees and hornets will come to rob the honey. Even if the entrance is sealed they will come. If the honey seeps out through the bottom or some cracks, they will come. The seeping honey could also cause rot problems with the wood structures. There is a suction or vaccum method of removing bees, honey and all. Otherwise opening the walls is the other alternative. Still, the best bet is to contact the local beekeeper's assoc. They can put you in contact with the people you need. Pete, NJ ______________________________________________________________________________ The Paranormal Pub | Newsletter | A Thing is impossible until it is not! PO Box 313 | Tuckerton, NJ 08087 | USA | _________________________|____________________________________________________ "Science is not all known and logic is nebulous." ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 10 Sep 1995 20:41:42 +22300129 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Adam Finkelstein Subject: Observation Hive Summary (sort of long) The following summary is the result of this question I asked a month or so ago. The hive is healthy and I greatly appreciate everyone's input! The question was: Has anyone had experience with varying lengths of the entrance tube? I wonder if one meter is too long an entrance for a two frame observation hive (American Langstroth frame). The responses I received were: From: hthomas@solid.phys.ethz.ch (Hans-Ulrich THOMAS) Subject: Observation hive I have an observation hive. However, one frame only. The (horizontal) entrance tube is about 30cm long and of a diameter of 3cm. Outside of the building the entrance tube makes a 90=B0 turn upwards for a length of 2.5m (!). The diameter chosen is larger and is 9 cm. This is a commercial PVC tube available for kitchen sinks etc. The bees seem not to mind it at all. They fly in and out with no problems. I don't know whether they walk up the tube or fly. Just to be on the safe side I sandpapered the inside of the PVC tube so it is easier for the bees to walk up. Good luck with your design Hans (hthomas@solid.phys.ethz.ch) From: RICHARD E BONNEY I have seen a two frame observation hive with an 8-10 foot entrance tube. It worked fine but it was a short term arrangement, about four days, in a display at the county fair. At UMass we have about an 18 inch tube regularly. Dick Bonney rebon@ent.umass.edu From: Allen Dick . No it should be okay. From: rose@rrzs3.rz.uni-regensburg.de (Andreas Rose) The zoo/ aquarium in Berlin has an observation hive with an entrance tube that is at least 2m long and that changes direction twice. The tube is made of acrylic plastic and has a diameter of about 8cm. Best wishes, Andreas Rose andreas.rose@biologie.uni-regensburg.de From: Phil Veldhuis YEs. I currently have a full size colony (10 frames) on display in a major art gallery. THe tube is over thirty (30) feet long. The tube is clear plexi of 3 inch diameter. > > I wonder if one meter is too long an entrance for a two frame observation > hive (American Langstroth frame). From: Pollinator@aol.com I've used them up to 18 inches with no problems. I did try one with the entrance tube at the bottom, and the bees couldn't seem to get the hang of it. So now I'll use only the top. I've always found they need intense management. One last year swarmed four times, took two pesticide hits, and had to be replenished with workers three or four times. I closed them out in November. The year before we got one through the winter, with a lot of feeding and a blanket over them on cold nights (the store was unheated at night). The first one I had was on the kitchen counter. I didn't get much done that summer, but I sure learned a lot. That was a cold summer up north, and they exited on the north side of the house. I had to replenish them quite a bit, and lost a couple queens too. Pollinator@aol.com Dave Green PO Box 1215, Hemingway, SC 29554 From: beary@UNO.CC.GENESEO.EDU (Ed Beary) I've set up several observation hives with the entrance tube length ranging from 15cm to 50cm without any obvious changes in behavior. All of my tubes were 4cm groves cut in a 2 x 4 with a plexyglass top. There have been people on net who have used much longer clear plastic tubes. The diameter might be a factor in allowing the bees to set up two way traffic lanes. Sometime last year there was a discussion here concerning hives and I think someone mentioned that bees cam in on the bottom of the tube and left on the top. Ed Beary beary@uno.cc.geneseo.edu From: saunders@cis.udel.edu I just visited the Insectorium at the Botanical Gardens in Montreal. They have an observation hive there (three full frames tall) with an entrance that is at least a meter long. The entrance tube is relatively large, about a 4 inch diameter plexiglass tube. It has a flat floor of plexiglass inside the tube (maybe 2 inches across) and the tube makes a sharp bend where it passes through a window (cuts wind, I guess). Some bees seem to settle for crawling the distance. Others fly more or less, often with considerable banging into the tube wall. From: Fred@class.mcn.org (Fred Rubin) Adam: I worked with numerous observation hives while a student at UC Davis, Although the short entrance tube is preferred, a healthy hive can traverse a one meter length. Good Luck From: Ann Dougherty (no e-mail address available--sorry) I have an observation hive with a 11/4 inch diameter tube about six inches long. It works great. The pacific science center here in Seattle had an observation hive with a clear plastic tube that must have been six inches in diameter and about ten feet long. I saw it after it had been removed. It was filled with comb and was really quite fascinating, but was a functional disaster as an entrance. Ann >From Harvey Rutt (sorry, no e-mail address available) I have seen a 2 frame obsn hive in a museum, apparently doing fine, with a tube well over 2 metres long with some bends in it. Harvey Rutt (ex beekeeper!) From: Stefan@scripta.demon.co.uk ("Stefan Wojtowycz.") A one metre tube would not be too long. From: Evan_E._Twombly@seafish.org (Evan E. Twombly) Years ago my dad used a 2 frame observation hive with an entrance tube about a meter long. I think it works fine. For such a small hive, the bees need to use up that honey somewhere, and walking the tube ought to do fine. There was an observation hive with 20 frames I read about that had a 10 meter entrance tube. So it's not impossible for the bees to use a long tube. This months Bee Culture magazine continues its series of articles on observation hives and in discussing the waggle dance (indicates distance and direction of nector/pollen source) the actual distance is related not to meters but to energy expended so a more difficult entrance means the dance is slower for a closer distance than in a hive with no entrance tube. Good Luck Evan If I left out your response, I'm sorry--I've been busy. Thanks again everyone! Adam -- ________________________________ Adam Finkelstein adamf@vtaix.cc.vt.edu Adaptive significance-- what's that? ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 11 Sep 1995 02:09:02 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Dave D. Cawley, a De Leon Socialist" Subject: Re: Observation Hive Summary (sort of long) > From: Pollinator@aol.com > > I've used them up to 18 inches with no problems. I did try one with > the entrance tube at the bottom, and the bees couldn't seem to get the > hang of it. So now I'll use only the top. Does this strike everyone elses as rather odd? I mean where the heck were they used to other entrances being? ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Dave D. Cawley | The information on the Internet is only University Of Scranton | interesting to people who are interested Scranton, Pennsylvania | in it. dave@scranton.com | -Scranton Tomorrow Spokeswoman ddc1@jaguar.uofs.edu | refusing invitation to Internet Cafe's opening ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 11 Sep 1995 07:08:26 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Michael Stoops Subject: Re: Important information for YOUR success In-Reply-To: <199509071658.JAA27547@luminary.sanjose.compass-da.com> To All, As another Distributor of Amway products, I apologize for Mike's inappropriate approach to the rest of you. As previously mentioned, his neticate (SP?) is deplorably lacking. I will approach my upline and the powers that be in Ada, Michigan to try to resolve this problem and insure that it doesn't occur again. Again, my apologies. Another distributor, MIKE On Thu, 7 Sep 1995, John Day wrote: > now, how do we as beekeepers get onto the amway list to solicite them > to become beekeepers? AND, how do we get the amway folks to buy our > products?? oooooh - could be good fun here...... > > john > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 11 Sep 1995 08:08:22 +0000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Allen Dick Organization: The Beekeepers Subject: Re: extractor Comments: To: Dave Priddy > Allen; I just read your post to the bee-list and am interested in > the details for motorizing a hand crank extractor using a fan or > other small motor. I have a small, four frame Dadant stainless hand > crank that, as I get older would like to motorize. Your help would > be appreciated. Just remove the mechanism from the top of the centre shaft, and find an 'A' belt pulley to fit. About 6 inche diameter is right as I recall. Then arrange to hang a 1/4 horse two speed furnace fan motor on one side so the the shaft is also vertical and poking up enough so that a pulley placed on the shaft will line up with the first pulley. The smallest pulley available at a hardware store will be appropriate. If you can rig a mount that allows some adjustment towards and away from the centre shaft to allow for belt variations or pulley changes, so much the better. A simple L shaped piece of 3/16 steel with slots in it works well. Then find a belt that fits between the two pulleys, and then wire a switch that permits two speed operation. The RPM selection of the motor is usually 1140 and 1725. The RPMs of the (two speed) extractor will be P1 / P2 X Ms. Where P1 and P2 are the pulley diameters and Ms is the motor RPM at the moment. A 60 inch radial runs about 250 RPM, so for a tangential type, you would likely want a target top speed ofsomewhere in the range of D60 / Dyours X 250 where D60 is the speed of the large machine and Dyours is the diameter of your little machine measured across the baskets, not the tank. I extracted 125 hives one year in a converted school bus with such a machine and did not find it wanting. Regards Allen W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper VE6CFK Rural Route One, Swalwell, Alberta Canada T0M 1Y0 Honey. Bees, Art, & Futures ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 11 Sep 1995 11:56:04 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Kenna MacKenzie Subject: bees and ammonia Greetings! A colleaque asked me to post this message. Please reply directly to Don at the e-mail address listed below. Thanks. Kenna MacKenzie, Agriculture and Agri-Food Canada, Kentville, Nova Scotia AMMONIA AND HONEY BEES A proposed indoor wintering facility wants to use the cooling capacity of an existing cold storage freezer that uses ammonia for cooling. Evidently small leaks in valves and fittings are common. Does anyone have information about the effect of ammonia on honey bees/bee colonies? Thanks! Send information directly to: nelson@nsrske.agr.ca Don Nelson, Visiting Scientist phone: (902) 679-5762 Kentville Research Station 32 Main Street Kentville, NS B4N 1J5 Canada ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 11 Sep 1995 23:09:34 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: JOHN IANNUZZI Subject: B-wax Cream Comments: To: jr0002@epfl2.epflbalto.org Beeswax Hand Cream Recipe 1/4 cup b-wax 1/4 C almond oil 1/4 C honey 1 tb pollen 1/4 C Vaseline petrol jelly 1/4 C glycerin 2 tb liquid lecithin Melt the beeswax & petro jelly together over a dbl boiler. Add t remaining ingredients & heat for 4 to 5 mins until mixture is smooth & heated. Pour into a container while still hot since it willharden as it cools. Makes about 1-1/4 cups. Materials need other thanhive products $ readily available at drug stores & health stores. Other hive cosmetic recipes: Honey Hand Lotion; Honey-Rosewater Hand Lotion; Beeswax-Coconut Hand Cream; Bee Pollen Hand Cream; Beeswax-Almond Hand Cream; B-wax Cold cream; Honey Cold Cream for Dry Skin; Honey Cleansing Cream; Honey Cleansing Lotion; and Honey-Rosewater Cleansing Lotion + 12 more. SOURCE: for full scoop, C Hive Cosmetics by Connie Krochmal, Gleanings in Bee Culture (now called Bee Culture), Oct. 1985, pp. 527-529. PS Haven't tried any of them. Note: "As these cosmetcis do not contain preservatives, they will often need to be refrigerated just as U would any other perishable natural substance." PPS Just in case U don't know it, Connie is now the new wife of Richard Taylor, Round-Section King of America. Bonne chance. Jack the B-man 21 hives 35years into B's ******************************* John Iannuzzi PhD * Howard Honey Farms RR8 * 9772 Old Annapolis Rd * Ellicott City (founded 1772) * Maryland usa 21042 * ******************************* ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 11 Sep 1995 23:19:18 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Dave Green, Eastern Pollinator Newsletter" Subject: Re: Observation Hive Summary In a message dated 95-09-11 02:11:56 EDT, Dave Cawley responds: >> I've used them up to 18 inches with no problems. I did try one >with >> the entrance tube at the bottom, and the bees couldn't seem to >get the >> hang of it. So now I'll use only the top. > > Does this strike everyone elses as rather odd? I mean where >the >heck were they used to other entrances being? > > I think the light messes them up. Normally they are in a dark hive, with the only light coming in the entrance. With an observation hive, they keep trying to rise to the room lighting. Even when covered part of the time, as soon as the cover was removed, they started balling up at the top. With a top entrance, this doesn't seem to be a problem. Pollinator@aol.com Dave Green PO Box 1215, Hemingway, SC 29554 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 11 Sep 1995 23:53:11 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Dave D. Cawley, a De Leon Socialist" Subject: Re: bees and ammonia > From: Kenna MacKenzie > AMMONIA AND HONEY BEES > A proposed indoor wintering facility wants to use the > cooling capacity of an existing cold storage freezer that uses > ammonia for cooling. Evidently small leaks in valves and > fittings are common. Does anyone have information about the > effect of ammonia on honey bees/bee colonies? Thanks! I bet it would make them *REALLY* mad...other than that it's not good for any animal to be sniffing ammonia on a regular basis. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Dave D. Cawley | The information on the Internet is only University Of Scranton | interesting to people who are interested Scranton, Pennsylvania | in it. dave@scranton.com | -Scranton Tomorrow Spokeswoman ddc1@jaguar.uofs.edu | refusing invitation to Internet Cafe's opening ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 Sep 1995 00:16:27 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Maynard R. Thompson" Subject: Re: bees and ammonia In-Reply-To: <01HV62HVLSUQ935JGX@JAGUAR.UOFS.EDU> =BC68=D62=D2=EF=BF=FDg=BEq=D6=AE=BCY=B9=FC=A1u=C3=A8"1=093=DE=F8=C2$=ACZXD2= =C7=AD=F3 =09=09=09Love from the Thompsons. =09=09=09=09God bless us each and every one! =09=09=09=09=09Teri-Maynard-Samuel. On Mon, 11 Sep 1995, Dave D. Cawley, a De Leon Socialist wrote: > > From: Kenna MacKenzie > > AMMONIA AND HONEY BEES > > A proposed indoor wintering facility wants to use the > > cooling capacity of an existing cold storage freezer that uses > > ammonia for cooling. Evidently small leaks in valves and > > fittings are common. Does anyone have information about the > > effect of ammonia on honey bees/bee colonies? Thanks! >=20 > I bet it would make them *REALLY* mad...other than that it's > not good for any animal to be sniffing ammonia on a regular basis. >=20 > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~= ~~~~~~~ > Dave D. Cawley | The information on the Internet is only > University Of Scranton | interesting to people who are interested > Scranton, Pennsylvania | in it. > dave@scranton.com | -Scranton Tomorrow Spokeswoman > ddc1@jaguar.uofs.edu | refusing invitation to Internet Cafe's op= ening > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~= ~~~~~~~ >=20 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 Sep 1995 11:40:02 GMT+0100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "MORGAN, ANTHONY" Subject: Re: B-wax Cream > Date: Mon, 11 Sep 1995 23:09:34 -0400 > Jack the B-man wrote > Beeswax Hand Cream Recipe > > 1/4 cup b-wax > 1/4 C almond oil > 1/4 C honey > 1 tb pollen > 1/4 C Vaseline petrol jelly > 1/4 C glycerin > 2 tb liquid lecithin > ......... I dislike using "non-natural" products such as vaseline, liquid paraffin etc. Vegetable oils such as olive oil are used instead of the runny mineral products and vaseline is replaced by pure lanolin (perhaps strict vegetarians wouldnt use this). In fact, a mix of beeswax and lanolin plus a few drops of an aromatic oil for scent produces a very pleasant if slightly sticky hand cream. This mix was originally recommended (without the scent) for impregnating hand made leather sheaths for hunting knives -- it was so nice on the hands that I tried it as a hand cream ! Cheers Tony --------------------------------------------------------------- Anthony N. Morgan (Tony) Fax: +47 73 89 62 86 "Stavshagen" E-mail: anthony@iet.hist.no Midtsandan Sor-Trondelag College 7563 MALVIK Elec. Eng. Department Norway 7005 TRONDHEIM, Norway ---------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 Sep 1995 08:27:08 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Dave Einhorn Subject: alergies Alergy topic one: I went to the Johns Hopkins Alergy clinic to be tested and instead paid 400 dollars to be told, by the clinic's head Vodoo doctor, that they could not predict allergies to bee stings. They would not test us. In my humble opinion, a big waste of money. Alergy topic two: I would greatly appreciate information about ** non-petrolium ** hand creams and lip-baum. If it has vasoline or other such chemicals, my wife and I can not use them. Many thanks. Dave ------ Dave Einhorn deinhorn@isnov.ab.umd.edu ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 Sep 1995 08:53:40 CST Reply-To: mbristow@palomo.chillan.udec.cl Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Marion L.Bristow" Subject: Re: Red Clover Go after the honey and charge for pollination !!!! . Marion L.Bristow - Jefe , Seccion Informatica Agriculture Sciences Campus Universidad de Concepcion , Campus Chillan Casilla 537 Chillan , Chile e-mail: mbristow@palomo.chillan.udec.cl ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 Sep 1995 12:48:47 -0400 Reply-To: Mason Harris Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Mason Harris Subject: excluding the excluder Hi Bee Friends, I am looking for suggestions, A friend of mine convinced me not to use queen excluders on 2 of my 3 hives. One of the hives is fine. There is honey in the super above the brood chamber and the queen seems to be staying put where she belongs. I opened the other hive yesterday and got a surprise! It seems the bees have bridged the gap between the top of the bottom brood chamber the bottom of the top honey super with comb and the queen is laying eggs there. In addition, she has started to move up into the honey super and about an inch of the bottom of about 6 frames has had the honey removed and replaced with brood. It was quite a shock when I pulled some frames up out of the honey super and looked down into the hive. Unknowingly, I had ripped open the brood cells between the upper super and the lower BC and there was a neat line of uncapped, inch long larva lined up across the width of the hive. I was waiting for the bees to finish capping the honey super so I could take the honey. In the mean time they decided to turn it into a brood chamber So, here in lies the questions. Should I take out the frames and scrape the brood off the frames and extract the honey or should I find the queen, make sure she is down in the lower BC and add a queen excluder. I assume I can wait a few weeks until the brood has hatched and the bees have filled the cells with honey. The honey flow if off now and I am not sure how long this will take to happen. Maybe months! What is the usual procedure for something like this? Thanks for your thought on this. Sincerely, Mason Mason Harris Burlingame, CA E-Mail: SMHARRIS@ED.CO.SANMATEO.CA.US ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 Sep 1995 18:58:51 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Laura Downey Subject: Bee venom allergy update Hi all - An update on my allergy situation - I went to the allergist yesterday. I tested positive for honey bee venom - skin prick test. I also tested positive for yellow jacket and yellow hornet venom. My blood test indicated a response of 4500 for IGE antibodies. (Normal is 50.) The allergist told me that this indicates that my body realizes that I am allergic to bee venom. I had to get another blood test today for IGG antibodies. I think these are the antibodies that counteract the venom? If these are high enough, they will "cancel out" the IGE antibodies. The allergist said I was not a candidate for allergy shots. I am only experiencing large local reactions. However, there is some uncertainty since I come in contact with bees much more often than the allergic non-beekeeper would. I have one more visit after I receive the second set of blood test results. If anyone understands the two kinds of antibodies and can explain it a bit more to me, I'd certainly appreciate it. Thanks. Laura Downey (CORVI29@aol.com) ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 Sep 1995 23:26:10 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Dave Green, Eastern Pollinator Newsletter" Subject: Re: Red Clover In a message dated 95-09-09 23:30:16 EDT: >From: PMGEOPHYS@AOL.COM (Steven A. Davis) > I've been told that this isn't >much of a >honey plant because the throat of the flower is too long for most >bees. I've >also been told that Italians will make a crop from this because of >their >longer tonge. So lets hear the "truth" from you more experienced >folks. Is >it worth me chasing after this stuff for honey or should I charge for >pollination? Generally bumblebees work red clover better than honeybees, though I have seen honeybees work it. I believe Carniolans and Caucasians have slightly longer tongues than Italians. Incidently, I looked at a cuke field today that had abundant bumblebees working it -- the first field I've seen this whole season being worked by bumbles. This was in one of the few sections around here that has no cotton nearby. The honeybees were a lot stronger, too. Back to red clover: I think that under ideal conditions, the blossoms can make more nectar, possibly a big enough droplet that honeybees can reach it. Some years they seem to work it, other years you never see them on it. I doubt you could get anyone to pay for red clover pollination, though dairy farmers in some areas are seeking out beekeepers for the white clovers in their pastures. Clover seed is very expensive, and they like to get reseeding. Likewise, it is so iffy on honey production, I would tend to look for white or sweet clover, if it is in your area. Pollinator@aol.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 Sep 1995 22:58:57 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Liz Day Subject: Re: Bee venom allergy update Explain it to all of us, if you could please! If anyone understands the two kinds of antibodies and can explain it a bit more to me, I'd certainly appreciate it. Thanks. Laura Downey (CORVI29@aol.com) Liz Day LDAY@indy.net Indianapolis, Indiana, central USA ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Sep 1995 08:18:58 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Kenna MacKenzie Subject: bees and ammonia A colleque asked me to post this to bee-l. Please reply directly to Don at the address below. AMMONIA AND HONEY BEES. A proposed indoor wintering facility wants to use the cooling capacity of an existing cold storage freezer that uses ammonia for cooling. Evidently small leaks in valves and fittings are common. Does anyone has information about the effect of ammonia on honey bees/bee colonies? Thanks! Send information directly to: nelson@nsrske.agr.ca Don Nelson, Visiting Scientist phone: (902) 679-5762 Agriculture and Agri-Food Canada Kentville Research Station 32 Main Street Kentville, Nova Scotia B4N 1J5 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Sep 1995 07:57:35 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: JOHN IANNUZZI Subject: Allergies Years ago a Dr Valentine at Good Samaritan Hospital, Balto, was a leader in developing a new method of treating B-allergies vice the OLD one of using ground-up whole Bs. Suum cuique. Jack the B-man 21 hives ******************************* John Iannuzzi PhD * Howard Honey Farms RR8 * 9772 Old Annapolis Rd * Ellicott City (founded 1772) * Maryland usa 21042 * ******************************* ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Sep 1995 08:51:08 -0500 Reply-To: Wendy Stevens Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Wendy Stevens Subject: Re: Bee venom allergy update In message <950912185849_17490805@emout04.mail.aol.com> Discussion of Bee Biology writes: > Hi all - > > An update on my allergy situation - I went to the allergist yesterday. I > tested positive for honey bee venom - skin prick test. I also tested > positive for yellow jacket and yellow hornet venom. > > My blood test indicated a response of 4500 for IGE antibodies. (Normal > is 50.) The allergist told me that this indicates that my body realizes that > I am allergic to bee venom. I had to get another blood test today for IGG > antibodies. I think these are the antibodies that counteract the venom? If > these are high enough, they will "cancel out" the IGE antibodies. > > The allergist said I was not a candidate for allergy shots. I am only > experiencing large local reactions. However, there is some uncertainty since > I come in contact with bees much more often than the allergic non-beekeeper > would. I have one more visit after I receive the second set of blood test > results. > > If anyone understands the two kinds of antibodies and can explain it a bit > more to me, I'd certainly appreciate it. Thanks. > > Laura Downey > (CORVI29@aol.com) > Here's how this antibody business works. When you are stung for the first time, your body recognizes the venom as a foreign protein. It activates white blood cells called B lymphocytes. The B lymphocytes turn into plasma cells that produce an antibody called immunoglobulin E (IgE) to counteract the antigen or foreign bee venom protein. These antibodies also get hooked onto another cell, a mast cell, that's found in your connective tissues. When you're stung a second time, the new inflow of bee venom protein attaches to the antibodies (IgE) on the mast cell surface and causes degranulation of the mast cells. Mast cells release substances like histamine which cause swelling and itchiness if the reaction is localized (ie only mast cells in the immediate area exposed to vemon are affected). The reaction can also go systemic in some people meaning that you get an entire body reaction including a runny nose and cough, edema, loss of blood pressure, and constriction of smooth muscle in your lungs causing the air passageways to close down. Meanwhile your body is also producing another antibody called IgG. IgG blocks the degranulation effect caused by bee venom coming in contact with IgE on the mast cells. However, for persons who are stung infrequently, the level of IgG is not sufficient to overcome the mast cell degranulation and release of histamine. Enter antivenom therapy. By giving small doses of bee venom on a weekly basis, the body gradually builds up its level of IgG. Effective immunotherapy is associated with at least a 2 times increase in serum levels of IgG specific to bee venom. Once you're up to this level, a maintenance bee sting every 6 weeks will keep your body producing enough IgG to protect you. I hope this helps explain what's going on. Wendy Stevens ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Sep 1995 07:59:10 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Eric Abell Subject: Re: Emergency In-Reply-To: <950910131704_95792681@mail06.mail.aol.com> On Sun, 10 Sep 1995, Steven A. Davis wrote: > I am not an experienced beekeeper. But I ve seen plenty of photos of AFB > scale. Never did I see any residue in the cells. I looked particularly > close at those that the wax moths had not (apparently) gotten to yet. What > should I do? > > Steve > pmgeophys@aol.com > Don't panic! All is not lost. I, too, once purchased a bunch of supers and was surprised to find no brood anywhere. It seems the seller had removed all the brood to hid AFB. What to do? Use the equipment, being certain to provide TM to your bees as recommended on the label. Stop this prior to the honey flow. Now the important part. Treat again after the flow and prior to winter. I used to find a problem every spring, clean it up and find it again the next spring. Once I started fall treatment my problem went away. TM is extremely effective so I suggest that you not worry too much about it. If you find brood combs that are have lots of scale then burn those combs. Comb with only a cell or too can, in my opinion, be used. Eric Abell email: eabell@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca Gibbons, AB, T0A 1N0 Canada (403) 998 3143 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Sep 1995 08:03:06 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Eric Abell Subject: Re: Bee 'infestation' In-Reply-To: On Sun, 10 Sep 1995, Pete Gentile wrote: > On Sun, 10 Sep 1995, Steve Payne wrote: > > > What sort of problems will there be by the honey left in the walls? How > > would one get rid of the honey? > > - Steve > > > Depending on the size of the wall cavity that the bee colony occupies, > there could be well over 100lbs of honey stored there. With no bees to > maintain temperature or defend the hive several things could happen. > > The temperature inside the wall could rise causing the wax comb to > melt, allowing the honey to seep out. Honey seeping through your walls is > is only good if you are a fly, nat, ant or a yeast cell! The bugs will > have a feast and the yeast will ferment the honey and stink. > > Besides ants and flys, wasps, other bees and hornets will come to rob the > honey. Even if the entrance is sealed they will come. If the honey > seeps out through the bottom or some cracks, they will come. > > The seeping honey could also cause rot problems with the wood structures. > > There is a suction or vaccum method of removing bees, honey and all. > Otherwise opening the walls is the other alternative. Still, the best > bet is to contact the local beekeeper's assoc. They can put you in > contact with the people you need. > > Pete, NJ > > > How about killing the bees inside the wall and then allowing other bees in the area to rob the honey and remove it. The wall could be kept sealed until there is no honey flow and robbing should take place rather quickly. The disadvantage is that there will be lot of bees and other insects around while this robbing is underway. However, it might be better than tearing the wall down. Eric Abell email: eabell@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca Gibbons, AB, T0A 1N0 Canada (403) 998 3143 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Sep 1995 08:10:37 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Eric Abell Subject: Re: extractor In-Reply-To: <9509111410.AA17058@cuugnet.cuug.ab.ca> Allen, I liked your reply...... however.... I think your formula will result in an extractor running too fast. Here is an alternate suggestion. 1. Turn the extractor by hand and have someone count the rpms of the baskets at the speed that you have found works well. 2. Find any low speed motor (1725 rpm) and mount as suggested. 3. Select your two pulleys to drive the extractor at the selected speed. As you will be using only one speed and it will be easy to let the machine run longer than when turning it by hand you may want to try a lower speed. Eric Abell email: eabell@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca Gibbons, AB, T0A 1N0 Canada (403) 998 3143 On Mon, 11 Sep 1995, Allen Dick wrote: > > Allen; I just read your post to the bee-list and am interested in > > the details for motorizing a hand crank extractor using a fan or > > other small motor. I have a small, four frame Dadant stainless hand > > crank that, as I get older would like to motorize. Your help would > > be appreciated. > > Just remove the mechanism from the top of the centre shaft, and find > an 'A' belt pulley to fit. About 6 inche diameter is right as I recall. > > Then arrange to hang a 1/4 horse two speed furnace fan motor on one > side so the the shaft is also vertical and poking up enough so that a > pulley placed on the shaft will line up with the first pulley. The > smallest pulley available at a hardware store will be appropriate. > If you can rig a mount that allows some adjustment towards and away > from the centre shaft to allow for belt variations or pulley changes, > so much the better. A simple L shaped piece of 3/16 steel with slots > in it works well. > > Then find a belt that fits between the two pulleys, and then wire a switch that > permits two speed operation. > > The RPM selection of the motor is usually 1140 and 1725. The RPMs > of the (two speed) extractor will be P1 / P2 X Ms. Where P1 and P2 > are the pulley diameters and Ms is the motor RPM at the moment. > > A 60 inch radial runs about 250 RPM, so for a tangential type, you > would likely want a target top speed ofsomewhere in the range of > D60 / Dyours X 250 where D60 is the speed of the large machine and > Dyours is the diameter of your little machine measured across the > baskets, not the tank. > > I extracted 125 hives one year in a converted school bus with such a > machine and did not find it wanting. > > Regards > > Allen > > W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper VE6CFK > Rural Route One, Swalwell, Alberta Canada T0M 1Y0 > Honey. Bees, Art, & Futures > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Sep 1995 08:03:09 -0700 Reply-To: uc779@freenet.victoria.bc.ca Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Conrad A. Berube" Subject: allergies (reply) Comments: To: DEINHORN@ISNOV.AB.UMD.EDU Subject: alergies (sic) > Alergy topic one: I went to the Johns Hopkins Alergy clinic to > be tested and instead paid 400 dollars to be told, > by the clinic's head Vodoo doctor, that > they could not predict allergies to bee stings. They would > not test us. In my humble opinion, a big waste of money. What?! Seems like allergy testing has a fairly well-established protocol and clinical record-- as testified by the numerous postings on this topic in the past few weeks. I'd report the doctor who told you this to the AMA and request a refund of your $400 from the clinic (good luck with the latter, though-- there's always small claims court-- I'm sure that you could find plenty of medical journal citations that would refute that doctor's irresponsible approach-- there's no excuse for anyone to charge money for services that they do not render). Conrad Berube ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Sep 1995 11:47:22 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Dave Einhorn Subject: Re: allergies (reply) Comments: To: "Conrad A. Berube" > > Alergy topic one: I went to the Johns Hopkins Alergy clinic to > > be tested and instead paid 400 dollars to be told, > > by the clinic's head Vodoo doctor, that > > they could not predict allergies to bee stings. They would > > not test us. In my humble opinion, a big waste of money. > > What?! Seems like allergy testing has a fairly well-established protocol > and clinical record-- as testified by the numerous postings on this topic > in the past few weeks. I'd report the doctor who told you this to the AMA Conrad, The John's Hopkins Alergy clinic is, from what I have been told, a world renown and highly prestigious institution, and the doctor was the head of that clinic. He also told me that the 18 years of painful alergy therapy that I underwent as a youngster was a waste of time. Perhaps things have changed in the 6 or so years since that consultation, but as the inside cover of one college textbook said, "Todays medicine; tomorrow's placebos". Dave Einhorn deinhorn@isnov.ab.umd.edu ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Sep 1995 12:00:59 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Kelley Rosenlund Subject: The Frugal Beekeeper A 40 oz can (usually yams are packed in it) fits nicely into my smoker giving it a double wall where all the heat is. I find the outside of the smoker does not get as hot & hopefully the metal will last longer. God Bless, Kelley Rosenlund Gainesville, Fla. U.S.A., 32 hives ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Sep 1995 09:08:32 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: John Day Subject: Re: The Frugal Beekeeper hi kelley, nice idea to use a 40 oz can. do you punch holes in the bottom for air circulation too or just use it as is? thanks, john ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Sep 1995 11:17:00 +0000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Allen Dick Organization: The Beekeepers Subject: Re: extractor > Allen, I liked your reply...... however.... I think your formula > will result in an extractor running too fast. The reason for a two speed motor is based on the techniques of using a tangential extractor - which are different from those used with a radial. First you spin one side of the frames at *low* speed, because they are heavy and the honey cannot escape from the inside surface Then stop and flip the frames, Then run the second side at 'low' until most of the honey is out Then switch to 'high' (or if the honey is thin, you could have gone straight to high speed on the second side) Then stop and flip the frames, then run the first side again - this time on 'high'. > 1. Turn the extractor by hand and have someone count the rpms of > the baskets at the speed that you have found works well. > 2. Find any low speed motor (1725 rpm) and mount as suggested. > 3. Select your two pulleys to drive the extractor at the selected > speed. > As you will be using only one speed and it will be easy to let the > machine run longer than when turning it by hand you may want to try > a lower speed. If you use only one speed, you will have to settle on a speed that does not break the first side (or bend the baskets) and that will be too slow to dry the frames properly I stick by my original post. Regards Allen W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper VE6CFK Rural Route One, Swalwell, Alberta Canada T0M 1Y0 Honey. Bees, Art, & Futures ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Sep 1995 11:17:00 +0000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Allen Dick Organization: The Beekeepers Subject: Re: The Frugal Beekeeper Comments: To: Kelley Rosenlund > A 40 oz can (usually yams are packed in it) fits nicely into my > smoker giving it a double wall where all the heat is. I find the > outside of the smoker does not get as hot & hopefully the metal will > last longer. Stainless steel smokers usually last to the point where they wear out two sets of bellows and are so full of dents that I'm sick of the sight of them - all without any reinforcements. The old steel ones did burn up badly though. Regards Allen W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper VE6CFK Rural Route One, Swalwell, Alberta Canada T0M 1Y0 Honey. Bees, Art, & Futures ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Sep 1995 09:33:00 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Kerry Clark 784-2225 fax (604) 784 2299" Subject: Re: The Frugal Beekeeper I've used the "extra can in the smoker" for many years. My first one was a coffee can, which fitted perfectly inside the 4 inch smoker. Recently, I had to test several likely cans before I found one that fit, and it is slightly short for the space. I punched a dozen or so holes (about 1/4 inch) in the bottom of the can for draft. This is one of the advantages: you can restrict the draft by the number of holes you punch. Restricting the draft let me slow down the air flow through the smoker, reducing the smoke put out when the smoker is "standing by", and letting the fuel last longer. Adjust the holes for the fuel you use. I use poplar twigs, which have a nice scent, are readily available at each of the bee yards (except immediately after a rain). (you can pack burlap to reduce the draft, but the twigs can start to draw too much air and burn, unless the draft is reduced). Another idea: I cut a triangle (apex up) out of side of the can insert, at the base. (takes 15 seconds with a sharp hive tool). Now, after I've smothered the smoker with a Champagne cork in the spout, I can re-light at the next stop, by sliding out the can insert and poking a match into the triangle opening, relight from the bottom of the fuel (perhaps with a twist of newspaper). No danger from disposing of embers, I just add fuel from the top. Kerry Clark, Apiculture Specialist B.C. Ministry of Agriculture 1201 103 Ave Dawson Creek B.C. V1G 4J2 CANADA Tel (604) 784-2225 fax (604) 784-2299 INTERNET KCLARK@GALAXY.GOV.BC.CA ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Sep 1995 12:24:05 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: BusyKnight Subject: Re: Bee 'infestation' >How about killing the bees inside the wall and then allowing other bees >in the area to rob the honey and remove it. The wall could be kept >sealed until there is no honey flow and robbing should take place rather >quickly. The disadvantage is that there will be lot of bees and other >insects around while this robbing is underway. However, it might be >better than tearing the wall down. > How would you kill the bees in the wall (without also killing the robber bees later)? ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Sep 1995 11:08:00 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Kerry Clark 784-2225 fax (604) 784 2299" Subject: Re red clover At least part of the differences in experience with honey bees and red clover, results from different cultivars of red clover. Here in northern British Columbia and prairie provinces of Canada, red clover is usually one of the winter hardy, late flowering or "single-cut" (for hay) cultivars. Often, not always, this red clover is worked by honey bees and can have large nectar production. As I understand it (but have no experience) the early flowering, "double-cut" cultivars (greater herbage yield) may be less attractive to honeybees. (Perhaps these cultivars have larger corolla tubes, etc). Of course, attractiveness and usage of a plant by honeybees depends on alternative nectar sources, and growing/weather conditions. Kerry Clark, Apiculture Specialist B.C. Ministry of Agriculture 1201 103 Ave Dawson Creek B.C. V1G 4J2 CANADA Tel (604) 784-2225 fax (604) 784-2299 INTERNET KCLARK@GALAXY.GOV.BC.CA ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Sep 1995 11:24:00 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Kerry Clark 784-2225 fax (604) 784 2299" Subject: Re allergies It would be disturbing to have the head of Johns Hopkins Allergy clinic confirm that allergies to bee stings could not be tested for. We've seen lots of posts that indicate many people are depending on such tests. I'll stay open for more details. The useless therapy of years ago? The use of "whole bee extract" at that time, is a reasonable explanation. Today's therapy using straight bee venom, even though it may use the same superficial procedure, is different enough that it need not be considered the same, and seems clearly effective in many cases. Kerry Clark, Apiculture Specialist B.C. Ministry of Agriculture 1201 103 Ave Dawson Creek B.C. V1G 4J2 CANADA Tel (604) 784-2225 fax (604) 784-2299 INTERNET KCLARK@GALAXY.GOV.BC.CA ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Sep 1995 10:38:05 +0100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jean-Marie Van Dyck Subject: Re: Emergency AFB Comments: To: pmgeophys@aol.com On Sun, 10 Sep 1995, Steven A. Davis wrote: > I am not an experienced beekeeper. But I ve seen plenty of photos of AFB > scale. Never did I see any residue in the cells. I looked particularly > close at those that the wax moths had not (apparently) gotten to yet. What > should I do? On Wed, 13 Sep 1995, Eric Abell answered: > Don't panic! All is not lost. I, too, once purchased a bunch of supers > and was surprised to find no brood anywhere. It seems the seller had > removed all the brood to hid AFB. > What to do? > Use the equipment ... Hello ! I knew about this problem too ! Really pay attention with AFB ... *No stuff* is too much yet, and enough to get infection ... and TM don't *cure* ! After some experiments, I'm convinced the next cheap *previous treatment* give you more certainty your new (old) equipment works right : Get some "LAURIC ACID" (this cheap, not toxic and chemically stable fatty acid is a very toxic drug to AFB growing: ref 1993 I have not on hand) at a chemical supplier. Dissolve it in ethanol or methanol (methyl alcohol) (I use 2 g/lt of methanol). And dip or paint *all* your suspect equipment with this. I paint the bottoms (2x), the supers (2x the parts where are propolis and wax) and the covers. I dip the frames. The stuff is ready after alcohol is evaporated. This treatment give you each remaining AFB spore coated with a drug toxic for their grow. Hope this helps ! Jean-Marie Long. : 4deg 56' E - Lat. : 50deg 30' N - Alt. : 200 m - North sea : 200 km Really here the summer is finished now ! => cold and wet ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Jean-Marie Van Dyck Fax +32 81 72 42 72 B.P. 102 email : jmvandyck@quick.cc.fundp.ac.be B-5000 NAMUR(Belgium) Medical school - Biochemistry dept This => C'est ma facon de parler ! ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Sep 1995 11:36:03 +0100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jean-Marie Van Dyck Subject: Re: Propolis removable Comments: To: anndough@u.washington.edu On Mon, 28 Aug 1995 Ann Dougherty asked: > Does any one know how to remove propolis from clothing, furniture and > any other item that can't be scraped? Hello all ! If the clothes could be wash in water : wash first with sodium carbonate crystals (drug store) as soap stuff, or dip the blots in a hot solution of this product : propolis will dissolve and water become brown. After that, wash as usual to remove the other blots and the stuff. Hope this helps ! Jean-Marie ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Sep 1995 08:01:38 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Kelley Rosenlund Subject: Re: Emergency AFB Get some "LAURIC ACID" Is this legal in the U.S.A.? God Bless, Kelley Rosenlund Gainesville, Fla. U.S.A., 32 hives ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Sep 1995 07:39:06 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Eric Abell Subject: Re: Bee 'infestation' In-Reply-To: <199509131724.MAA12672@gateway.airmail.net> On Wed, 13 Sep 1995, BusyKnight wrote: > >How about killing the bees inside the wall and then allowing other bees > >in the area to rob the honey and remove it. The wall could be kept > >sealed until there is no honey flow and robbing should take place rather > >quickly. The disadvantage is that there will be lot of bees and other > >insects around while this robbing is underway. However, it might be > >better than tearing the wall down. > > > How would you kill the bees in the wall (without also killing the robber > bees later)? > Some ideas come to mind: Raid Cyanogas Carbon monoxide Get the product into the cavity, then seal up the cavity for a period of time. I am sure readers of this list can add more. Eric Abell email: eabell@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca Gibbons, AB, T0A 1N0 Canada (403) 998 3143 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Sep 1995 07:20:54 -0700 Reply-To: uc779@freenet.victoria.bc.ca Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Conrad A. Berube" Subject: Re: allergies Comments: cc: DEINHORN@ISNOV.AB.UMD.EDU, KCLARK@GALAXY.GOV.BC.CA > It would be disturbing to have the head of Johns Hopkins Allergy clinic > confirm that allergies to bee stings could not be tested for. Obviously, this is not the case. In a worst case scenario a doctor could simply stand by with epinephrine and a respirator and supervise while a patient was stung with a live bee. (Yes, this is drastic and probably impractical for someone who may go into anaphylactic shock but the fact remains that it _is_ a valid test.) Dave got conned, plan and simple-- if the story _is_ as simple as he paid his $400 and didn't receive any kind of testing or treatment. Just because someone is an MD and head of the clinic doesn't mean s/he's honest or knows what s/he's talking about. (Doesn't mean the opposite either.) What one should not ask a physician is that s/he guarantee that one's body chemistry will not change with time-- conceivably one could be allergic today and not a month from know-- but the fact remains that there are clinical tests that would demonstrate one's reactivity today or a month from now. - Conrad Berube " ` ISLAND CROP MANAGEMENT " ` 1326 Franklin Terrace _- -_`-_|'\ /` Victoria, B.C. _/ / / -' `~()() V8S 1C7 \_\ _ /\-._/\/ (604)480-0223; fax (604)656-8922 / | | email: uc779@freenet.victoria.bc.ca '` ^ ^ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Sep 1995 20:48:27 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jean-Pierre Chapleau Subject: Re: Red Clover Only once in years could I witness my bees really forage on a red clover field and make a crop from it. It was a really good crop. I live in eastern Canada. Jean-Pierre Chapleau Queen breeder Vice-president of the Canadian Honey Council 1282, rang 8, Saint-Adrien de Ham, Quebec province, Canada, J0A 1C0 phone (819) 828-3396; fax (819) 828-0357 chapleau@praline.net ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 15 Sep 1995 02:01:00 GMT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Andy Nachbaur Organization: WILD BEE'S BBS (209) 826-8107 LOS BANOS, CA Subject: AFB Get some "LAURIC ACID" KR>From: Kelley Rosenlund >To: Multiple recipients of list BEE-L >Date: Thu, 14 Sep 1995 08:01:38 -0400 >Subject: Re: Emergency AFB KR> Get some "LAURIC ACID" KR>Is this legal in the U.S.A.? KR>God Bless, >Kelley Rosenlund >Gainesville, Fla. U.S.A., 32 hives Hello Kelley, For sure it is not approved for use in the USA. It could be illegal to sell any product for use in or on a beehive or on bee's that is not approved. It could also be illegal for a beekeeper to use a product that is not approved. The problem is and continues to be getting any product, no matter how safe, or how much research, or how long it has been in use by beekeepers, approved. Make's one wonder about the future of any golden bullet does it not..!! Worse it make's me wonder about the product's that are approved as they are not necessarily the best, only the one's that had the money to use the system to get approval. And for sure limits the choice that we can make and that choice is not necessarily made on the best research, only who has the most money. I know nothing about "lauric acid", but would bet that it will never be approved as the cost to do so is beyond the economic resources of all but the biggest chemical and drug companies, plus the use or need for the product would not pay the time of even one beekeeper who would want to see it approved so he could use it. Household bleach would no doubt do the same thing but it also is not approved. Is it illegal for a person to use Lauric Acid in the US as a dip or drench, or painted on beehives to kill unwanted bacteria? No it is not, but one should be insured just in case it finds it's way into the honey at a later date. It is not approved but it is not necessarily legal, one should also have fund's set aside for any legal action any government agent or agency would want to bring against you if you need to prove that your use of this or any chemical not approved for use was legal. If you use it without it being approved you could become an outlaw by that use. Outlaw's contrary to public opinion are not treated well by government agency's other then welfare. You could win every legal point in the highest court's and legislatures in the US and still be an outlaw and receive some special treatment by any government agency. The approved chemical treatment for the prevention of AFB and EFB is TM, use it, it works and it is cheeper then any other approved or not approved chemical or drug that you could use. It also benefits healthy hives with increased brood rearing if used as proscribed on the label. You know it is working when the bee's do remove occasional old AFB scale from combs. It is not unusual to find a few scales of AFB in equipment from healthy hives that have had regular treatment with TM, that is the way it works. Honey and brood combs that do not have scale rarely cause healthy hives to break down with AFB. I did not say never. Never is a long time in the bee business. What never will happen will always happen once in a beekeepers lifetime. Normally AFB is like the bogy man, as long as you don't see him you need only fear him. In the old days, before any chemical's were used by beekeeper's for prevention or treatment of AFB it was not unusual to find up to 3% AFB in any one season. Many times the uncapping of these bad cells with AFB, if they were few in number, with the corner of a hive tool and then roping it out with a wooden match stick to be sure, (they use to all be wooden), was all it took for that hive to be free of AFB the next inspection, maybe a week to a month later. The beekeeper's I apprenticeship under burned them anyway, I know, it was my job to dig the hole, come back after dark, carefully open the hive, throw in the gasoline, pull out the combs and then stand back and throw a lit match into the pit and watch the bees and wax combs burn. One time I got ahead of the fire so to keep from being bored I would check the combs for AFB by the light of the fire. I could not find any..? So the next time hives were brought in for the pit, I check them all by the light of day, and to my surprise I could not find any cell's showing AFB. We burned them anyway. Later with the advent of drugs, first Sulfa, then TM, the AFB found is seldom the one cell type, and all combs found should be burned. I am not so sure about the combs that show no scale at all and do not burn white extracting combs from AFB hives myself, going most years with 1/2 of 1% AFB using TM in all food products introduced into the hives. ttul Andy- (c)Permission to reproduce, granted. Opinion is not necessarily fact. --- ~ QMPro 1.53 ~ * A cynic smells the flowers and looks for the casket. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 15 Sep 1995 05:09:05 GMT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Darlene Scribilo Subject: bee venom therapy To Don Miller Re: Bee Venom Therapy Reference your posting Sept.4 on BVT.. The ! person to contact is Michael Simics #204 - 1331 15th Ave. S.W. Calgary, B.C. Canada T3C 0X8 ph./fax (403) 541-1877 He has several publications including: Bee Venom: Exploring the Healing Power. It is referenced an costs about $ 10 US. Bee venom in powder, solution and tablet form is also available along with Bee venom collector devices and aids for bee sting therapy.. In December 1995 he will offer an Apitherapy Resource Service. Michael does this for a living and is committed to promoting the use of hive products for health. Darlene dags@wimsey.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 15 Sep 1995 11:30:56 +0100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jean-Marie Van Dyck Subject: lauric acid beehive treatment to AFB Comments: To: andy.nachbauer@beenet.com Hello all ! I apologize ! I'm a belgian biochemist in Belgium and I know obviously nothing about what is legal in the U.S. or not. I know more about LAURIC ACID (real chemical name "Dodecanoic Acid" or also dodecoic acid) which is a simple saturated fatty acid as which we encountered in a lot of natural fats and oils. Lauric acid is found in COCONUT OIL (isolated 1995, Merck index X, p.775). Now ! Is it legal to paint your hives with coconut oil ? I don't know! The amount I said (0.2 % in alcohol) will give a totality of 40-50 mg (milligrams) of lauric acid per super, the main part of which is *in* the wood fibres. If this really keep you away from AFB "with this super" without any more TM treatment. On Fri, 19 May 1995 13:37:05 +0100 I said already (without comment): > WHY no new paper (articles) about chemicals as fatty acids is > published since the 2 articles in Apidologie 1993 vol 24(2) pp 89-99 > (since 2 year today). Maybe no research is made in this line? Maybe > the authors are waiting to publish their results at the Lausanne > Apimondia Congress ? WHAT WASTE TIME AND MONEY FOR BEEKEEPERS WITH > AFB in theirs own hives ! > Can I suggest this ... > +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ > In my mind, the case of "lauric acid" is a good choice because this > product is stable even at high temp. and very toxic to AFB. It is not > soluble in water, sugar syrup and honey, but it is quite soluble in > the waxes (beeswax *and* microwax) and it is not expensive (about > US$25/kg). It could be added in microwax before dipping. It could be > added to the beeswax foundations. It could be serve to protect the > other AFB contamined materials while dipping it in an alcoholic > (methanol or ethanol 0.2-0.5 %) solutions after the alcaline cleaning. > The "nec plus ultra" solution is to find a line of honeybees which > secrete one of this fatty acids in her own beeswax ! Research work ! > +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ > > I'm not able to experiment these possibilities for different reasons ! > Seems there will be solutions for the beekeepers which live daily the > AFB problem ! I have not the whole proceeds of Lausanne but seems there nothing about a new hive (hardware) treatment for AFB. Why ? IMHO : Some apicultural specialists which *are* in contact with AFB (we in Belgium are very very few ! AFB is occasional) try rationally this method, collect and summarize their results. Hope this helps! Jean-Marie Long. : 4deg 56' E - Lat. : 50deg 30' N - Alt. : 200 m - North sea : 200 km ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Jean-Marie Van Dyck Fax +32 81 72 42 72 B.P. 102 email : jmvandyck@quick.cc.fundp.ac.be B-5000 NAMUR(Belgium) Medical school - Biochemistry dept This => C'est ma facon de parler ! ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 15 Sep 1995 08:41:18 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Benet J. Pardini" Subject: Heat Honey to Inhibit Crystallization? I have always heated my honey to about 100-105 degrees F for 24 hrs before bottling, distributing, etc., in the belief that it will inhibit or at least slow the crystallization process (advice from other beekeepers). However, I have also read somewhere (Dadant's beekeeping tome?) that this procedure will not necessarily maintain honey in its liquid form. Can anyone supply any information (definitive or otherwise) about ways to inhibit crystallization and the potential benefits of heating? No, I have never split my honey, heated only a portion of it, and stored both batches similarly. I am a small-time hobbyist whose supply usually evaporates by the end of the xmas holidays. TIA. - Ben Pardini Solon, IA ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 15 Sep 1995 07:49:46 +0000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Allen Dick Organization: The Beekeepers Subject: Re: AFB Get some "LAURIC ACID" Thanks to Andy for another excellent post. > For sure it is not approved for use in the USA. It could be illegal > to sell any product for use in or on a beehive or on bee's that is > not approved. It could also be illegal for a beekeeper to use a > product that is not approved. > > The problem is and continues to be getting any product, no matter > how safe, or how much research, or how long it has been in use by > beekeepers, approved. > > Make's one wonder about the future of any golden bullet does it > not..!! Worse it make's me wonder about the product's that are > approved as they are not necessarily the best, only the one's that > had the money to use the system to get approval. And for sure limits > the choice that we can make and that choice is not necessarily made > on the best research, only who has the most money. We lost the best treatment for AFB years back, because it was never put through the approval process in the years when approval was easier. Actually, I don't know why it wasn't grandfathered. Sulfa was an excellent controll because of its persistence. The problems started when the practice came under scrutiny a decade or so back. With the advent of techniques to find minute amounts of contaminants, it was found in some honey in reatios of 1 part per million or so and resulted in a lot of good honey being dumped or used for feed. I don't know if there is any real danger to anyone in having levels of that order. Some people have kidney problems when exposed to some level of sulfa drugs (I don't know much about this) and there is the hazard of having resistance to sulfa develop when it occurs widely, however, as far as I know, the hog people still use it as liberally as salt. Comments welcome. > The approved chemical treatment for the prevention of AFB and EFB is > TM, use it, it works and it is cheeper then any other approved or > not approved chemical or drug that you could use. It also benefits > healthy hives with increased brood rearing if used as proscribed on > the label. Amen Regards Allen W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper VE6CFK Rural Route One, Swalwell, Alberta Canada T0M 1Y0 Honey. Bees, Art, & Futures ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 15 Sep 1995 09:00:27 +0000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Allen Dick Organization: The Beekeepers Subject: SCIENCE question I'd like to direct this question about tracheal mites testing to those who are knowledgable about the question of mite testing and treatment - specifically bee scientists and commercial beekeepers: First some background: Last year we found that the 25th bee sampled from the honey house windows had tracheal mite damage. Tests this year, we had exactly the same results. I've gathered samples of about a hundred bees from a number of yards, now and started pulling them apart. I've done about 20 from each of several yards and found nothing. The Problem: I'm wondering how many bees I should do from each yard. We have about 24 hives per yard and I guess the number to look at from each sample depends on the level of infestation that is considered the threshold for requiring treatment. I unfortunately don't know how to do stats (I really should learn), but I do know that if you are looking for - say 20% infestation in 1 of 24 hives that may have lower or no infestation - that there is a function to determine the number to do that would give 95% certainty. can someone help me with this? Some Considerations: The management decision involved here is that there is a cost in testing and there is a cost in treating. The sum of these should ideally be lower than the expected loss resulting from undetected or untreated hives dying in winter. Therefore, testing costs are only worth incurring if there is a a reason to assume some measure of risk exists. However the testing cost is already spent by the time one knows if there is any risk of loss. So at that point, only the costs of treatment (including any loss due to treatment) must be less than the expected costs of not treating. My first run at this assumes that a surviving hive is worth $75 in the spring and that a hive dying of TM is going to consume about $10 worth of feed before succumbing and it will cost $5 to clean up the mess. So if it costs $90 to treat a yard to save only one hive, It is only questionably worthwhile. Here are the questions: 1. At what infestation level in an *individual hive* should one treat in the fall? 2. What sampling level of *each yard* should provide adequate indication of such a need? 3. Is it sufficient to only look for darkening in the trachea when checking (very fast and easy), or is it necessary to look for more subtle signs of mites in bees? Regards Allen W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper VE6CFK Rural Route One, Swalwell, Alberta Canada T0M 1Y0 Honey. Bees, Art, & Futures ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 15 Sep 1995 12:24:26 -0400 Reply-To: Mason Harris Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Mason Harris Subject: Extractor Hi Bee Folks! Does anyone out there have any experience with Lapp's Bee Supply, $198.00, S.S. 4-6 frame radial extractor? I was told it comes from Italy and some models have an extra filtering/storage compartment fixed to it's bottom. It looks to be adequate but I would like some first hand comments on this unit. Please post to my personal e-mail address as this will not interest most people. Thanks. Mason Harris Burlingame, CA E-Mail: SMHARRIS@ED.CO.SANMATEO.CA.US ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 15 Sep 1995 09:57:00 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Kerry Clark 784-2225 fax (604) 784 2299" Subject: Re: lauric acid beehive treatment to AFB In Jan 1995, I asked Dr H. Shimanuki for an update of the status of research on linoleic and lauric acids for AFB. He had previously reported isolating these fatty acids from chalkbrood mummies, after it was observed that apiaries with high chalkbrood, had low AFB. Lab trials confirmed that they had a suppressive effect on AFB. As of Dec 1994, field efficacy with the doses used was not adequate. Trials were to have continued, but Dr Shimanuki indicated that it was obvious that the materials will not be as effective as oxytetracycline. Kerry Clark, Apiculture Specialist B.C. Ministry of Agriculture 1201 103 Ave Dawson Creek B.C. V1G 4J2 CANADA Tel (604) 784-2225 fax (604) 784-2299 INTERNET KCLARK@GALAXY.GOV.BC.CA ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 15 Sep 1995 17:22:49 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Everett D. Cashatt" Subject: Bacteria on apids, vespids, bombids A plea for help from the hymenopterists! I recently received a call from a resident MD concerning a patient that he had treated who had a severe bacterial infection associated with a bumblebee sting. This apparently is not an isolated occurrence; there have been others reported. He is asking for help regarding literature which might contain a survey of any bacteria associated with vespids, apids, or bombids. He plans to publish this case history and needs some basic literature on the bee flora. I have done some general searches online with our available resources, but did not find anything other than a few specialized papers on honeybees - nothing of a general nature. He knows the medical and clinical literature, but would like a lead into the entomological literature. Can anyone provide a lead into this literature if there is any? Please respond directly to me, as I am not a member of this list. Thank you. Tim Everett D. (Tim) Cashatt, Ph.D. Curator of Zoology, Illinois State Museum phone: 217-782-6689 fax: 217-785-2857 email: cashatt@museum.state.il.us ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 16 Sep 1995 08:00:09 +0000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Allen Dick Organization: The Beekeepers Subject: Periodic Posting: BEE-L Logs Contents: 1.)World Wide Web access to BEE-L 2.) Email access to historical BEE-L discussions There are two ways to read back issues of BEE-L: 1. ) BEE-l can presently be read on the Worldwide Web by pointing your brouser at http://www.internode.net:80/~allend/index.html. You can also still get there from http://www.cuug.ab.ca:8001/~dicka The National (USA) Honey Board Database is also there to brouse or download. All logs going back to 1991 are available on this web site. If you have web access, either by PPP and a graphical brouser or by lynx (a UNIX brouser available on many UNIX shell accounts by typing the command 'lynx'), this is the fast, simple way to go. 2.) For those with no web access, some recent logs are also available by email from LISTSERV@CNSIBM. ALBANY.EDU However they only go back to 1994. Due to the increasing size of recent logs and limited space on the LISTSERV, the older logs have been displaced. To have a BEE-L log emailed to you: ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Just send a message with no subject (subject lines are ignored) to LISTSERV@CNSIBM. ALBANY.EDU with the message GET BEE-L LOGMMYY Where MM is the month (ie. 05 for May) and YY is the year (ie. 95 for 1995). Additional logs requested can be added on up to four more lines in your message. Be aware of the spacing of the words (No space in LOG9505, for example). Leave out any other text -- such as .signatures. Additional text - other than lines with additional commands -- will trigger harmless error messages from the LISTSERV. The log will arrive some time later in your mailbox. Warning: logs can be 650 K in size. 3.)Therefore please edit your contributions to BEE-L and leave off long vanity sigs: Regards Allen W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper VE6CFK Rural Route One, Swalwell, Alberta Canada T0M 1Y0 Honey. Bees, Art, & Futures ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 16 Sep 1995 11:00:34 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Rick Fell Subject: Re: Bacteria on apids, vespids, bombids Tim: One possibility is a staphyloccus infection. You don't make mention of the type of bacteria, nor whether this physician has identified the bacteria. However, there have been several reports of sub-dermal staph infections associated with spider bites, and at least one from the bite of a reduvid (both of which create puncture type wounds similar to a sting). I would not be at all surprised to hear of a similar response from a hymenopteran sting. This might provide a better explanation than the bacteria associated with bees and wasps. Regards - Rick Fell >A plea for help from the hymenopterists! > >I recently received a call from a resident MD concerning a patient that he >had treated who had a severe bacterial infection associated with a bumblebee >sting. This apparently is not an isolated occurrence; there have been others >reported. He is asking for help regarding literature which might contain a >survey of any bacteria associated with vespids, apids, or bombids. He plans >to publish this case history and needs some basic literature on the bee >flora. I have done some general searches online with our available >resources, but did not find anything other than a few specialized papers on >honeybees - nothing of a general nature. He knows the medical and clinical >literature, but would like a lead into the entomological literature. > >Can anyone provide a lead into this literature if there is any? > >Please respond directly to me, as I am not a member of this list. > >Thank you. > >Tim >Everett D. (Tim) Cashatt, Ph.D. >Curator of Zoology, Illinois State Museum >phone: 217-782-6689 >fax: 217-785-2857 >email: cashatt@museum.state.il.us Rick Fell Associate Professor Department of Entomology Virginia Tech Blacksburg,Virginia 24061 Tel. (540) 231-7207 e-mail: rfell@vt.edu ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 16 Sep 1995 11:17:17 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: BusyKnight Subject: Paradichlorobenzene substitute In reference to storing over-wintered supers, someone in the Beekeeping UseNet Users group asked if there was an "approved" substitute for PDB. Is there? ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 16 Sep 1995 09:54:20 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jim Osborn Subject: Re: Heat Honey to Inhibit Crystallization? "Benet J. Pardini" writes: >I have always heated my honey to about 100-105 degrees F for 24 hrs before >bottling, distributing, etc., in the belief that it will inhibit or at >least slow the crystallization process (advice from other beekeepers). >However, I have also read somewhere (Dadant's beekeeping tome?) that this >procedure will not necessarily maintain honey in its liquid form. Can >anyone supply any information (definitive or otherwise) about ways to >inhibit crystallization and the potential benefits of heating? As I understand it, 160 degrees F is the temperature to which honey must be heated to permanently prevent crystalization. It may depend a bit on the specific nectar source, as the speed with which unheated honey crystalizes certainly depends strongly on its source. The "benefits" of heating include easy flow through the pipes of large packing plants, consumer confidence for those that think the crystalized stuff has gone bad, and loss of flavor. jimo@eskimo.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 16 Sep 1995 13:54:34 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: JOHN IANNUZZI Subject: Re: Periodic Posting: BEE-L Logs Comments: cc: fkovac@CapAccess.org > Contents: 1.)World Wide Web access to BEE-L > 2.) Email access to historical BEE-L discussions > > There are two ways to read back issues of BEE-L: > > 1. ) BEE-l can presently be read on the Worldwide Web by pointing your > brouser at http://www.internode.net:80/~allend/index.html. You can > also still get there from http://www.cuug.ab.ca:8001/~dicka > > The National (USA) Honey Board Database is also there to brouse or > download. > > All logs going back to 1991 are available on this web site. > > If you have web access, either by PPP and a graphical brouser or by > lynx (a UNIX brouser available on many UNIX shell accounts by typing > the command 'lynx'), this is the fast, simple way to go. > > 2.) For those with no web access, some recent logs are also available > by email from > > LISTSERV@CNSIBM. ALBANY.EDU > > However they only go back to 1994. > > Due to the increasing size of recent logs and limited space on the > LISTSERV, the older logs have been displaced. > > To have a BEE-L log emailed to you: > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Just send a message with no subject (subject lines are ignored) to > LISTSERV@CNSIBM. ALBANY.EDU with the message > > GET BEE-L LOGMMYY > > Where MM is the month (ie. 05 for May) and YY is the year (ie. 95 for > 1995). Additional logs requested can be added on up to four more lines > in your message. Be aware of the spacing of the words (No space in > LOG9505, for example). > > Leave out any other text -- such as .signatures. Additional text - > other than lines with additional commands -- will trigger harmless > error messages from the LISTSERV. > > The log will arrive some time later in your mailbox. Warning: logs > can be 650 K in size. > > 3.)Therefore please edit your contributions to BEE-L and leave off > long vanity sigs: > Regards > > Allen > > W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper VE6CFK > Rural Route One, Swalwell, Alberta Canada T0M 1Y0 > Honey. Bees, Art, & Futures > Dear Allen, 1. U certainly R a fountain of info since I joined Bee-L. 2. Please advise friend [fkovac@CapAccess.org] precisely how to subscribe to Bee-L since I've forgotten the exact details. 3. Merci beaucoup in advance. Jack the B-man 21 hives 19 too many for a hobbyist 35 consecutive yrs w/ the HB ******************************* John Iannuzzi PhD * Howard Honey Farms RR8 * 9772 Old Annapolis Rd * Ellicott City (founded 1772) * Maryland usa 21042 * ******************************* ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 16 Sep 1995 23:19:52 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Pete Gentile Subject: Re: AFB Get some "LAURIC ACID" In-Reply-To: <9509151351.AA51554@cuugnet.cuug.ab.ca> On Fri, 15 Sep 1995, Allen Dick wrote: > I don't know if there is any real danger to anyone in having levels > of that order. Some people have kidney problems when exposed to > some level of sulfa drugs (I don't know much about this) and there > is the hazard of having resistance to sulfa develop when it occurs > widely, however, as far as I know, the hog people still use it as > liberally as salt. > Some people have severe, life threatening allergic reactions to sulfa. ______________________________________________________________________________ The Paranormal Pub | Newsletter | A Thing is impossible until it is not! PO Box 313 | Tuckerton, NJ 08087 | USA | _________________________|____________________________________________________ "Science is not all known and logic is nebulous." ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 16 Sep 1995 23:24:43 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Pete Gentile Subject: Re: Emergency AFB In-Reply-To: <199509141201.IAA69930@freenet2.freenet.ufl.edu> On Thu, 14 Sep 1995, Kelley Rosenlund wrote: > Get some "LAURIC ACID" > > Is this legal in the U.S.A.? > No Pete, NJ ______________________________________________________________________________ The Paranormal Pub | Newsletter | A Thing is impossible until it is not! PO Box 313 | Tuckerton, NJ 08087 | USA | _________________________|____________________________________________________ "Science is not all known and logic is nebulous." ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 17 Sep 1995 09:09:11 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Don Bowen Subject: Re: AFB Get some "LAURIC ACID" >> >Some people have severe, life threatening allergic reactions to sulfa. Any exposure to Sulfa drugs cause me to break out in a severe rash. Even drinking some wines cause this reaction. I have been warned that the next time may be worse and sensitivity may increase. Don Bowen donb@cts.com Valley Center, CA c_dbowen@qualcomm.com Bee Point acres Software engineer, woodworker, beekeeper 1936 Farmall 12 1966 Corvair Corsa 140 Convertible 1 wife, 3 kids, 2 dogs, 1 cat, 2 acres, no TV ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 17 Sep 1995 15:54:21 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Eric Abell Subject: Re: SCIENCE question In-Reply-To: <9509151502.AA53550@cuugnet.cuug.ab.ca> On Fri, 15 Sep 1995, Allen Dick wrote: > I'd like to direct this question about tracheal mites testing to > those who are knowledgable about the question of mite testing and > treatment - specifically bee scientists and commercial beekeepers: > > First some background: > > Last year we found that the 25th bee sampled from the honey house > windows had tracheal mite damage. Tests this year, we had exactly > the same results. > It is obvious that you are sampling too many bees. Next year try only two dozen and then you can claim to be mite free. Seriously, you have raised some valid questions and I look forward to reading the replies. My own practice is to assume that I have mites in every yard and treat accordingly. However, I continue to sample as well. For the last three years, yards that did not build well, did not produce well and had a poor survival over winter had more mites than other yards when sampled in the spring. I still vividly remember unwrapping 40 hives and when I finally made it to the end of the line and looked back there were only 7 hives left on pallets - and they were not good. Assuming 10% are going to die anyway, I feel that the mites cost me 36-7 = 19 colonies and 7 weak colonies. At $70 and, say $20 that works out to about $1500 lost plus the cost of cleaning up the mess. Eric ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 17 Sep 1995 15:14:24 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Michael G. Byrne" Subject: Apistan strips in hive during flow I left 2 apistan strips on the brood chamber of a new hive all summer. After rereading the instructions, I realize this is not the appropriate technique, and the honey from this hive sould not be used. Is this the correct conclusion? ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 17 Sep 1995 18:39:46 +22299804 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Adam Finkelstein Subject: Re: Apistan strips in hive during flow In-Reply-To: from "Michael G. Byrne" at Sep 17, 95 03:14:24 pm Michael G. Byrne, (you), wrote: > > I left 2 apistan strips on the brood chamber of a new hive all summer. After > rereading the instructions, I realize this is not the appropriate > technique, and the honey from this hive sould not be used. > > Is this the correct conclusion? > Yep. Adam -- ________________________________ Adam Finkelstein adamf@vtaix.cc.vt.edu Adaptive significance-- what's that? ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 17 Sep 1995 18:58:47 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Laura Downey Subject: Beekeeping items wanted Hi all - Does anyone know if there is a bee journal or newsletter that regularly advertises used beekeeping equipment for sale? I have looked through local newspapers and want ad magazines without any success. I am looking for an extractor and electric knife. I wouldn't mind buying used equipment in good condition, but I'm not sure where to look. Laura Downey Jessup, MD (corvi29@aol.com) ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 17 Sep 1995 18:59:09 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Malcolm (Tom) Sanford, Florida Extension Apiculturist" Subject: September APIS Distributed to: USR:[MTS]INTERNET.DIS;73 FILENAME: SEPAPIS.95 Florida Extension Beekeeping Newsletter Apis--Apicultural Information and Issues (ISSN 0889-3764) Volume 13, Number 9, September 1995 Copyright (c) 1995 M.T. Sanford "All Rights Reserved" SEPTEMBER SEMINAR The third annual beekeeping seminar held in Florida's Panhandle has just been completed. This meeting featured several distinguished speakers, including Dr. Clarence Collison, chairman of the department of entomology, Mississippi State University, former extension apiculturist at Penn State University, and Dr. John Miller, plant (and now honey bee) pathologist with the Division of Plant Industry, Florida Department of Agriculture and Consumer Services. Dr. Collison spoke on swarm management and pollination, whereas Dr. Miller discussed diagnosis of American foulbrood at the laboratory level. The seminar also featured a half-day of open-hive demonstrations. Of special interest was a discussion by one of the younger beekeepers in the region, Mark Bundrick, on his management style and future plans. The seminar, held as a substitute for the traditional Florida Beekeeper's Institute (see September 1993 APIS), appears to be an idea that is catching on in beekeeping circles around the state. Another was held last spring in Clay County and will be scheduled again next year with an expanded program. In addition, the Central Florida and Tampa Bay beekeepers are considering holding one of their own. Several key ingredients appear to have contributed to the success of these seminars. Each differs somewhat depending on venue. In Florida's Panhandle, the Escarosa and Tupelo associations combined forces with the local bee inspector, Joe Robinson. In Clay County, the local cooperative extension office was involved, again in conjunction with the inspector in that area, Tomas Mozer. The ideal recipe for an outstanding seminar, therefore, would seem to be for all three entities (local inspector, local Cooperative Extension Office and local association) to work together. In an effort to promote more seminars around the state, a session on this is to be scheduled at the October meeting of the Florida State Beekeepers Association. FLORIDA STATE BEEKEEPERS MEET IN CYPRESS GARDENS October 26, 27 and 28 are the dates for the annual Florida State Beekeepers Association convention. This year's event takes place in Cypress Gardens with an expanded program. It is scheduled to begin at 10 a.m. on Thursday, October 26, with a swap meet dedicated to selling or trading beekeeping equipment. The traditional free barbecue will follow at 6 p.m. This is a special meeting because it marks the Association's 75th annual convention. A special registration packet is due to be sent to all members. For further information, contact the executive secretary, Ms. Eloise Cutts, 2237 NW 16th Ave., Gainesville, FL 32605, ph 904/378- 7719. NATIONAL HONEY MONTH September and October begin what is traditionally a time of increased honey marketing activity, culminating in the holiday season from Thanksgiving to New Year's Day. September is routinely declared National Honey Month and the National Honey Board also increases its efforts at this time of year. A recent news release from the Colorado office says to look for several advertisements featuring the squeeze bear this fall and winter in Family Circle, Woman's Day, Better Homes and Gardens and other magazines. It is ironic that a bear, considered by many beekeepers to be nothing more than a honey bee colony pest, is an icon that the Board has used with great success to market honey. So much so that Mary Humann, marketing director for the National Honey Board, says research indicates the featured squeeze bear is responsible for better read and remembered ads than those published by many brands that are household names. Besides doing its own promotions, the Board actively helps beekeepers promote and sell their own honey (see February, March and June, 1995 issues of APIS). It has recently developed sales kits dedicated to selling in foodservice and industrial markets and also is distributing press kits for the upcoming holiday season, and hang tags to brighten up retail packs. This winter, it will put on two marketing seminars. One will be held December 1 and 2 in Minneapolis, MN. Another dedicated to exporting honey, will be conducted Saturday, January 20, 1996 at the Red Lion Hotel/Lloyd Center in Portland, OR, in conjunction with the annual meeting of the American Beekeeping Federation. For more information on any of the Board's programs, call toll free, 1-800- 553-7162. FINDING QUEENS Those new to beekeeping are often surprised that most of the technology of the craft was developed before 1900. Only one, instrumental insemination, evolved after the turn of the century. The next question often asked is what technology is left to be developed. Most beekeepers would say that a quick and effective method of finding a queen would be very high on the list. In volumes 30 and 31 of Beekeeping & Development, two scientists from Latin America discuss this topic. B.M. Freitas from Brazil suggests a method based on the unique odor of a colony and the intolerance of one queen for another. Beekeepers in that country, faced with extremely defensive Africanized honey bees, had to develop a method that did not overly disturb a colony. In summary, the technique replaces a frame in the colony where the queen is sought with a frame shaken free of clinging bees from another colony. If little smoke has been used in the process, after three to five minutes, the queen, prompted by the different odor, will move to the introduced frame in search of a rival. The beekeeper then only has to look at that one frame for the queen. Dr. William Ramirez from Costa Rica describes a couple of variations on this theme. He suggests moving all the frames one at a time into another box placed on the original hive stand, in the process scanning each comb for the queen. If she is not seen, the walls of the original box can be examined and, if necessary, the remaining bees can be shaken onto a light-colored board. Should the above method be impossible because of a large, defensive bee population, he says to move the original colony away and put a box with a frame of brood in the old location . Over time, the defensive, older bees will fly back to the original location. Now it is relatively easy to find the queen amongst fewer bees that are younger and less defensive. Finally, Dr. Ramirez describes two other methods based on queen odor. A spare, live queen can be introduced into a colony using a push-in cage. After a time, the queen being sought will migrate to the cage and attempt to fight with the introduced adversary. In a variation of this, dead queens kept in a freezer can also be pinned to the top bar of a frame. Again, the queen being sought will move toward and attempt to fight with this interloper. 4-H ESSAY CONTEST Last year, Florida recorded its first winner in a long time in the American Beekeeping Federation's 4-H Essay Contest (See May 1995 APIS). We had a record number of entrants and interest is still high. I look forward to a bumper crop of essays from around the state again this year. Here are the details for 1996: Cash prizes to three top winners: 1st Place $250.00 2nd Place $100.00 3rd Place $ 50.00 Each state winner also receives an appropriate book about honey bees, beekeeping or honey. The title of the essay is: How Honey Bees Ensure Our Food Supply. It should explore the role honey bees play, through the pollination of crops, to insure a plentiful, varied and inexpensive food supply. Part of the effort should include an analysis of the range of crops benefited by honey bee pollination and how that pollination influences the plants' quantity, sometimes called yield, and quality [size, shape, flavor]. Finally, the question of why honey bees are essential to crop cultivation given they are not native to the Americas should be addressed. Sources: The scope of research will be an essential judging criterion. Personal interviews with beekeepers and farmers should be documented. Sources not cited in endnotes should be listed in a "resources" or "bibliography" list. RULES: 1. Contest is open to active 4-H Club members only. 4-H'ers who have previously placed first, second, or third at the national level are not eligible; other state winners are eligible to re- enter. [Editor's note: In the past, I have accepted last-minute mail-in and faxes of entries. However, I often have no way to confirm that those entering were indeed active Florida 4-H members. This year, in order to be considered at all, entries must be forwarded to me through 4-H extension agents.] 2. Essays must be 750 to 1000 words long, written on the designated subject only. All factual statements must be referenced with endnotes; failure to do so will result in disqualification of the essay. A brief biographical sketch of the essayist, including date of birth, complete mailing address, and telephone number, must accompany the essay. (The word limit does not include the references or the essayist's biographical sketch.) 3. Essays submitted must be typewritten, double-spaced, on one side of the paper and should follow standard manuscript format. Handwritten essays will not be judged. 4. Essays will be judged on (a) accuracy, (b) creativity, (c) conciseness, (d) logical development of the topic, and (e) scope of research. [Editor's note: A change in the rules this year mandates that the scope of research will count 75 percent of an essay's rating.] 5. Essayists in Florida should forward essays directly to 4- H Beekeeping Essay Contest, Dr. M.T. Sanford, Bldg. 970, Box 110620, Gainesville, FL 32611-0620. The deadline is February 12, 1996. 6. Each state may submit only one entry. 7. Final judging and selection of the national winner will be made by the ABF Essay Committee, whose decision is final. 8. The national winner will be announced by May 1, 1996. 9. All entries become the property of the American Beekeeping Federation, Inc. and may be published or used as it sees fit. No essay will be returned. GOING ONLINE Over the last year, record numbers of persons are going "online" by connecting their computer through a modem attached to a telephone line to what is called a "provider." These range from the very large [America Online(R), Compuserv(R)] to smaller, local providers. Each has a range of services, but all give access to electronic mail which travels the Internet. An electronic mail address has two parts. The name of person followed by a machine or provider name. The two names are separated by the @ symbol. I will be publishing these as time goes on. If you wish to be listed, send me your address. The following are of significance to Florida beekeepers: bculture@aol.com Bee Culture editor, Kim Flottum ljconnor@aol.com BeeScience editor, Dr. Larry Connor bertkelley@aol.com Florida Beekeepers Association president, Robert Kelley Sincerely, Malcolm T. Sanford Bldg 970, Box 110620 University of Florida Gainesville, FL 32611-0620 Phone (904) 392-1801, Ext. 143 FAX: 904-392-0190 BITNET Address: MTS@IFASGNV; INTERNET Address: MTS@GNV.IFAS.UFL.EDU APIS on the World Wide Web-- http://gnv.ifas.ufl.edu/~entweb/apis/apis.htm Copyright (c) M.T. Sanford 1995 "All Rights Reserved" ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 17 Sep 1995 20:10:12 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Derk Phelps Subject: Apistan Overwintering Hello, Is it correct and safe to overwinter colonies with the same apistan strips that I pulled before the honey flow? I am now installing them in colonies after I pull the honey. We have about 500 hives so I am concerned. I am concerned about mite resistance to the strips, thus cutting my own throat. Also, is there any interaction with the powdered sugar terramyacin mix and the apistan. We treat with terra mix outside of the honey production season also. Any help is greatly appreciated. Please reply personally at: Derk Phelps Phelps Honey Farm dpbees@aol.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 17 Sep 1995 20:37:49 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Pete Gentile Subject: Re: Beekeeping items wanted In-Reply-To: <950917185847_101845761@emout05.mail.aol.com> On Sun, 17 Sep 1995, Laura Downey wrote: > Hi all - > > Does anyone know if there is a bee journal or newsletter that regularly > advertises used beekeeping equipment for sale? I have looked through local > newspapers and want ad magazines without any success. > > I am looking for an extractor and electric knife. I wouldn't mind buying > used equipment in good condition, but I'm not sure where to look. > Contact your local beekeeper's association. They usually can put you in touch with members who are selling used stuff. Pete, NJ ______________________________________________________________________________ The Paranormal Pub | Newsletter | A Thing is impossible until it is not! PO Box 313 | Tuckerton, NJ 08087 | USA | _________________________|____________________________________________________ "Science is not all known and logic is nebulous." ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 17 Sep 1995 20:44:05 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Pete Gentile Subject: Re: Apistan Overwintering In-Reply-To: <950917201011_21922294@mail02.mail.aol.com> On Sun, 17 Sep 1995, Derk Phelps wrote: > Hello, > > Is it correct and safe to overwinter colonies with the same apistan strips > that I pulled before the honey flow? I am now installing them in colonies > after I pull the honey. We have about 500 hives so I am concerned. I am > concerned about mite resistance to the strips, thus cutting my own throat. > Also, is there any interaction with the powdered sugar terramyacin mix and > the apistan. We treat with terra mix outside of the honey production season > also. > No, it is not appropriate to reuse Apistan strips. The reduced amount of miticide will contribute toward the genetic development of Apistan resistant mites. Those mites that survive the lower dose will go on to reproduce resistant offspring. Pete, NJ ______________________________________________________________________________ The Paranormal Pub | Newsletter | A Thing is impossible until it is not! PO Box 313 | Tuckerton, NJ 08087 | USA | _________________________|____________________________________________________ "Science is not all known and logic is nebulous." ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 17 Sep 1995 21:24:01 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Michael Thigpen Subject: Re: Beekeeping items wanted In-Reply-To: <950917185847_101845761@emout05.mail.aol.com> Laura, Our state ag department puts out a small weekly newspaper which also features classified ads for private individuals who have ag related items for sale. Perhaps there's such a thing in MD? I think ours is called "The SC Market Bulletin" or something to that effect. Michael R. Thigpen aa101015@midnet.csd.scarolina.edu "All the fun's in how you say a thing." *Robert Frost* On Sun, 17 Sep 1995, Laura Downey wrote: > Hi all - > > Does anyone know if there is a bee journal or newsletter that regularly > advertises used beekeeping equipment for sale? I have looked through local > newspapers and want ad magazines without any success. > > I am looking for an extractor and electric knife. I wouldn't mind buying > used equipment in good condition, but I'm not sure where to look. > > Laura Downey > Jessup, MD > (corvi29@aol.com) > ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 17 Sep 1995 19:09:10 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Don Bowen Subject: Re: Apistan Overwintering >Hello, > >Is it correct and safe to overwinter colonies with the same apistan strips >that I pulled before the honey flow? I am now installing them in colonies >after I pull the honey. We have about 500 hives so I am concerned. I am >concerned about mite resistance to the strips, thus cutting my own throat. > Also, is there any interaction with the powdered sugar terramyacin mix and >the apistan. We treat with terra mix outside of the honey production season >also. How long can the strips be expected to have reasonable potency? I picked up a couple of nucs this last spring with strips in place. The could be a year or more old. I put in new strips this last weekend Don Bowen donb@cts.com Valley Center, CA c_dbowen@qualcomm.com Bee Point acres Software engineer, woodworker, beekeeper 1936 Farmall 12 1966 Corvair Corsa 140 Convertible 1 wife, 3 kids, 2 dogs, 1 cat, 2 acres, no TV ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 17 Sep 1995 21:50:23 +0000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Allen Dick Organization: The Beekeepers Subject: Re: Apistan Overwintering > Hello, > > Is it correct and safe to overwinter colonies with the same apistan > strips that I pulled before the honey flow? I am now installing > them in colonies after I pull the honey. We have about 500 hives so > I am concerned. I am concerned about mite resistance to the strips, > thus cutting my own throat. I am starting to become alarmed at the number of people posting on this list who apparently cannot read a label - or a post either for that matter. Does nobody ever read all the posts that go by? Do people just temporarily subscribe to this list to ask the same question that has been covered in detail a short while previously? Where are we going wrong. Do we need a FAQ? Would anyone read it? Regards Allen W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper VE6CFK Rural Route One, Swalwell, Alberta Canada T0M 1Y0 Honey. Bees, Art, & Futures ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 17 Sep 1995 20:53:34 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ann Dougherty Subject: Residue on wax In-Reply-To: <199509180209.TAA27756@happy.qualcomm.com> I've noticed a whitish, frosty residue on my bees wax products that makes them look very unattractive. It reminds me of powdery mildew that grows on many plants this time of year. Any idea what this stuff is and how to remove it? Ann ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 17 Sep 1995 23:28:11 +0800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: wilhelm e kaosse Subject: Re: Apistan strips in hive during flow >Michael G. Byrne, (you), wrote: >> >> I left 2 apistan strips on the brood chamber of a new hive all summer. After >> rereading the instructions, I realize this is not the appropriate >> technique, and the honey from this hive sould not be used. >> >> Is this the correct conclusion? >> > >Yep. >Adam Adam As a new hobbyist I did the same thing AND its too late for me to NOT use the honey. I've consumed the 30 lbs of white honey I took off the hive in July. I also took another 20 lbs of very dark honey off this week and will probably take another 20 lbs at the end of sept. as I shrink the hive down to 2 brood chambers and a shallow super for the mild(Vancouver, BC.)winter. My question is...what have I done to those friends and relatives I fed the honey to? ...boulder ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 Sep 1995 06:41:12 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: JOHN IANNUZZI Subject: T-Mites Comments: cc: br0005@epfl2.epflbalto.org, jr0002@epfl2.epflbalto.org, fkovac@CapAccess.org Hello Everybody, 1. My cost-free? method for treating tracheal mite. 2. A paper towel saturated w/ veggie oil (cheapest out there) placed between the two deep brood chambers. 3. Done twice: 1 sep & week later. 4. Vice pak menthol crystals which I've NEVER used. 5. My Bs survive. 6. Used for past 5? yrs. 7. What's Ur method & survival rate? Jack the B-man 21 hives (19 two many for a hobbyist) ******************************* John Iannuzzi PhD * Howard Honey Farms RR8 * 9772 Old Annapolis Rd * Ellicott City (founded 1772) * Maryland usa 21042 * ******************************* ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 Sep 1995 09:32:51 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Dave Green, Eastern Pollinator Newsletter" Subject: Re: Residue on wax In a message dated 95-09-17 23:59:00 EDT, you write: >Subj: Residue on wax >Date: 95-09-17 23:59:00 EDT >From: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU >To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU > >From: anndough@U.WASHINGTON.EDU (Ann Dougherty) >Sender: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU (Discussion of Bee Biology) >Reply-to: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU (Discussion of Bee Biology) >To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU (Multiple recipients of list BEE-L) >I've noticed a whitish, frosty residue on my bees wax products that >makes >them look very unattractive. It reminds me of powdery mildew that >grows >on many plants this time of year. Any idea what this stuff is and >how to >remove it? > > This bloom is completely normal and does not damage anything but the surface. It results from chemical interaction of air and wax. Just polish your creations with a soft cloth. When I sell candles, I put, along with advertising stuff, a note inside telling about wax bloom. Pollinator2aol.com Dave Green PO Box 1215, Hemingway, SC 29554 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 Sep 1995 09:58:09 GMT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: MEMO 1995/09/18 09:58 From: John E III Taylor Subject: Re[2]: Apistan Overwintering Allen Dick writes, regarding leaving Apistan strips in a hive beyond label recommendations: > Do people just temporarily subscribe to this list to ask the same question > that has been covered in detail a short while previously? > > Where are we going wrong. Do we need a FAQ? Would anyone read it? I believe we could use a FAQ that actually contains some of these threads. The only beekeeping FAQ of which I'm aware is merely a pointer to other sources of information, rather than a source itself. I _hope_ new readers follow the standard advice to read the FAQ first; it's just that they don't get their questions answered in the sci.agriculture.beekeeping FAQ as it currently exists. Anybody willing to compile one that tracks some of recent threads? John E. Taylor III W3ZID | "The opinions expressed are those of the E-Mail: mah48d@rohmhaas.com | writer and not of Rohm and Haas Company." ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 Sep 1995 10:15:10 GMT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: MEMO 1995/09/18 10:17 From: John E III Taylor Subject: Re[2]: Apistan strips in hive during flow _______________________________________________________________________________ Subject: Re: Apistan strips in hive during flow From: SMTP.BEEL2 at ROHMAIL Date: 9/18/95 2:29 AM > As a new hobbyist I did the same thing [left Apistan strips in the hive while > honey was being stored in extracting supers] AND its too late for me to NOT > use the honey. I've consumed the 30 lbs of white honey I took off the hive in > July. I also took another 20 lbs of very dark honey off this week and will > probably take another 20 lbs at the end of sept. as I shrink the hive down > to 2 brood chambers and a shallow super for the mild(Vancouver, BC.)winter. > My question is...what have I done to those friends and relatives I fed the > honey to? > >...boulder You've exposed them to a pesticide, contrary to the label instructions for that pesticide. According to US regulations, that's a serious infraction. According to courtesy, not letting them know about it is also a serious infraction. Realistically...well, a single incident like that is highly unlikely to cause any actual harm. I don't know specifically about Apistan, but typically the odds against developing any illness through such a single exposure to an approved pesticide is better than ten million to one...and you're not likely to win the lottery, either. Personally, I'd feed that honey back to the bees during a period when I had no supers on the hives. I'd _never_ sell it or give it away. But given the level of risk involved, I might well consume some of it myself...just me, not even another family member. John E. Taylor III W3ZID | "The opinions expressed are those of the E-Mail: mah48d@rohmhaas.com | writer and not of Rohm and Haas Company." ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 Sep 1995 07:43:52 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Carl H. Hovermale" Subject: Re: Beekeeping items wanted Comments: To: Laura Downey In-Reply-To: <950917185847_101845761@emout05.mail.aol.com> laura I have a 4 frame galvanized extractor that I do not need Carl ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 Sep 1995 11:14:49 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Aaron Morris Subject: Reuse of Apistan Derk Phelps queried about the reuse of Apistan(R), to which I respond by REPOSTING FROM THIS LIST!!! the following: "Jerry Worrell of Dunkirk, MD posted the following from the newsletter of the Pierce County Beekeepers Association, concerning the reuse of Apistan strips. Those who have reused Apistan strips in the past may want to rethink that strategy. Reuse of Apistan Several persons have reported the reuse of Apistan after some modification of the surface of the strip. Testing of this method produced the following results: * New Strips = 809 ug of fluvalinate on surface * Visibly clean strips after 45 days of use = 201 ug (24.8%) * Slightly contaminated strips after 45 days = 142 ug (17.6%) * After 45 days: brushed with electric wire wheel = 110 ug (13.6%) * After 45 days: planed on each side of strip = 70 ug (8.7%) * After 6 months use (over winter) = 38 ug (4.7%) Obviously using the strips beyond the 45 days required on the product label significantly reduces the amount of chemi- cal available to kill mites. Altering the surface of the strips actually reduced the amount of chemical available. Having low, sub-lethal levels of chemical in the presence of an organism raises the opportunity for the development of resistance to the product. Any reuse of Apistan is prohib- ited by the label and now we know it is counter productive and may produce Varroa resistance to fluvalinate." Then, Allen Dick wonders if subscribers ever bother to read what is posted (let alone packaging labels!). I can only guess that subscribers come and go and rarely bother to peruse the FAQ. What was asked and answered last year may be unknown to new subscribers. Perhaps the best thing to do here is to point the reasker of the same ol' questions to the answer as it exists in the archives rather than answering the question again. Unfortunately, the archives are lacking. Repeated requests for authors have not been fruitful. Checking the archives, I don't find the answer to the oft' asked question on the reuse of Apistan(R). So, I propose that when a regular subscriber sees a question asked so many times that they can answer it in their sleep, that the next time they take a nap, they compose the answer and indicate that the answer is to be added to the FAQ and added to "Hints for the Hive" so that the archives grow as a good source for newbies to find the answers they seek. Now, if you'll excuse me, I'm gonna take a nap! Aaron Morris - I think, therefore I bee! ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 Sep 1995 11:17:42 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Aaron Morris Subject: Reuse of Apistan - for FAQ and Hints for the Hive! It is often asked if it is ok to reuse Apistan(R) strips. The short and sweet answer is an emphatic "NO!". Reuse of Apistan is in clear violation of the products' label and beekeepers need not go further than the label when considering using the strips a second time to reduce costs. However, some beekeepers say "Yeah, yeah, I read the label, but does that mean that I REALLY can't reuse the strips?". Beekeepers who aren't convinced by the product's own label should read the following posts taken from the BEE-L archives. >---------------------< Florida Extension Beekeeping Newsletter Apis--Apicultural Information and Issues (ISSN 0889-3764) Volume 13, Number 2, February 1995 Copyright (c) 1995 M.T. Sanford "All Rights Reserved" ... FLUVALINATE--USE IT RIGHT OR LOSE IT! It is now official! Resistance to fluvalinate, the active ingredient in Apistan(R), has been found in Varroa mites. This was published in the February 1995 issue of Bee Culture (Vol. 123, No. 2, pp. 80-81) in "9th International Congress of Acarology," by E. Sugden, K. Williams and D. Sammataro. According to these authors: "The most ominous report came from Dr. Roberto Nannelli of Italy. He has found areas where Varroa mites are over 90 percent fluvalinate- resistant, and his claims have been confirmed by German sci- entists." Oscar Coindreau, representative of Sandoz Agro, the company that makes Apistan(R), also verified this report at the re- cent meeting of the American Beekeeping Federation in Austin, TX. He indicated that resistance was patchy in Italy, but in certain areas, Apistan(R) provided no control. And it doesn't take much resistance before Apistan(R) loses its effectiveness, according to Mr. Coindreau, because any- thing less than 99 percent control, is in reality, no con- trol. That's because mite populations tend to bounce back so readily in populous bee colonies. All investigators indicate that the cause of this resistance is not Apistan(R), but beekeepers' misuse of other formu- lations of fluvalinate. In Europe the product is called Klartan(R) and in the United States, Mavrik(R). All agree the use of these chemical products soaked into wooden strips, cardboard, paper towels, or in some cases, simply sprayed into colonies, is a certain recipe for developing resistant Varroa mites. Although considered "ominous" in Europe, in the United States resistant mites mean disaster. That's because most other countries of the world have alternative treatments that are legal. According to the authors of the article: "In general, European scientists felt that the best way to slow development of resistance in the mites is to have at least two types of treatment which could be applied alter- nately." This advice is mirrored in many other situations where possible resistance in organisms to pesticides and an- tibiotics exists (see "When Bugs Fight Back," APIS, Vol. 12, No. 11, November 1994, which follows this article). It turns out that some European countries even have three Varroa mite treatments to turn to, rotating Apistan(R) with formic acid and amitraz. In contrast to those in Europe, United States beekeepers have only one legal treatment, Apistan(R). The only other candidate treatment at the moment in the United States is formic acid. Although generally effective, there can be many complications in using this product, including, queen and worker loss even when applied correctly. It is also caustic, one reason it is not looked on favorably by regula- tory officials. According to one German researcher, efforts need to be increased to develop a formic acid-based product that is safe and foolproof, and can be registered quickly. The authors of the article, therefore, conclude: "It may not be a question of 'if' but only 'when and where' the first super-Varroa mites will show up in North America. This should serve a warning to all beekeepers to use control methods only as directed on their labels." The best way to ensure killing as many mites as possible without developing super Varroa resistant to fluvalinate is to use Apistan(R) right and only once. This philosophy, along with proper application recommendations, was published in the fall 1994, Apiculture Newsletter, published by the Ontario Ministry of Agriculture, Food and Rural Affairs, Guelph, Ontario, Canada. Here is what the authors (G. Grant, and M. Nasr, in consultation with L. Goczan of Sandoz Agro Canada) say in their article "Apistan Strips - Use'em Right, Use'em once!": "Apistan(R) is a plastic strip that contains a miticide, fluvalinate. Fluvalinate is a contact poison that kills Varroa mite. But Varroa mites must contact the right dose before they die. "Fluvalinate does not mix with water, but it does mix well with oils and waxes. As bees walk over the strip, the fluvalinate moves into the oils found on the surface of their bodies. When bees contact each other in the hive, the miticide is passed on. In a matter of hours all the bees in the hive are covered with fluvalinate. Adult mites that contact these bees will be killed by the miticide. "As fluvalinate is picked up from the surface of the strip the concentration drops. More fluvalinate then moves out from the center of the strip to the outside surface. The strip is designed to deliver the correct amount of miticide to the surface over the 42-day treatment period. "Eventually most of the fluvalinate is removed from the strip -- the strip is spent. There is no longer enough miticide left in the strip to kill Varroa mites.... "Why a 42-day treatment period? Worker bees take 21 days to develop from egg to adult. Drones need up to 24 days to de- velop. By leaving the strips in the hive for 42 days or two worker bee generations, all adult mites and their matured offspring will be exposed to the miticide. Remember, the mite must contact the fluvalinate in order to be killed. Mites in capped brood cells escape exposure until they emerge from the cell with the adult bee. "Why not leave strips in over winter? Because two potential problems might occur: 1. Residues- fluvalinate mixes with oils and waxes. Leav- ing strips in over winter might result in a build up of residues in the wax. 2. Resistance- mites are not equally susceptible to fluvalinate. Leaving mites in contact with spent strips may kill the most susceptible mites, leaving the more resistant mites to reproduce in their place." "Use one (1) strip for every five (5) frames covered by bees in brood boxes. Some strong hives may need three strips, some weak hives will only need one. Place strips down be- tween the frames so that they contact each side of the clus- ter. The average hive will likely need two. "Can Apistan strips be reused? No, with one exception. There is no sure way of knowing if enough fluvalinate re- mains in a strip to guarantee that it will work a second time. "The exception: If the strip was used once, only for three days to detect mites, and if the strip was then stored prop- erly between use, you might reuse the strip. You might re- use it for either detecting mites for a 3-day period or for one 42-day treatment. "Store strips in a cool, dry and dark location wrapped in aluminum foil in an air-tight bag. Avoid direct sunlight. Don't store strips near chemicals or pesticides. Don't store strips where they could contaminate food, feed or wa- ter. "In Ontario, Apistan(R) is registered as a Schedule 3 pesti- cide. As with other 'homeowner' products, strips are ap- proved for disposal in municipal landfills. Some municipalities have their own special requirements for dis- posal of Schedule 3 pesticides." In the United States, the instructions on the label are the law. They must be followed, even if varying from what the authors say in the above article or other writings on the subject. In addition, when applying Apistan(R), or any reg- istered chemical, the person must have in his possession a copy of the label. Thus, when it comes to Apistan(R), the old adage, "use it or lose it," must be modified. If U.S. beekeepers are to maxi- mize the utility of the one legal and effective treatment they have for Varroa, what many consider the most dangerous organism affecting beekeeping today, they must "use it right or lose it." >---------------------< Jerry Worrell of Dunkirk, MD posted the following from the newsletter of the Pierce County Beekeepers Association, concerning the reuse of Apistan strips. Those who have reused Apistan strips in the past may want to rethink that strategy. Reuse of Apistan Several persons have reported the reuse of Apistan after some modification of the surface of the strip. Testing of this method produced the following results: * New Strips = 809 ug of fluvalinate on surface * Visibly clean strips after 45 days of use = 201 ug (24.8%) * Slightly contaminated strips after 45 days = 142 ug (17.6%) * After 45 days: brushed with electric wire wheel = 110 ug (13.6%) * After 45 days: planed on each side of strip = 70 ug (8.7%) * After 6 months use (over winter) = 38 ug (4.7%) Obviously using the strips beyond the 45 days required on the product label significantly reduces the amount of chemi- cal available to kill mites. Altering the surface of the strips actually reduced the amount of chemical available. Having low, sub-lethal levels of chemical in the presence of an organism raises the opportunity for the development of resistance to the product. Any reuse of Apistan is prohib- ited by the label and now we know it is counter productive and may produce Varroa resistance to fluvalinate. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 Sep 1995 11:33:12 +22299804 Reply-To: adamf@vtaix.cc.vt.edu Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Adam Finkelstein Subject: Re: Re[2]: Apistan Overwintering In-Reply-To: from "John E III Taylor" at Sep 18, 95 09:58:09 am John E III Taylor, (you), wrote: > I believe we could use a FAQ that actually contains some of these threads. > The only beekeeping FAQ of which I'm aware is merely a pointer to other sources > of information, rather than a source itself. I _hope_ new readers follow the > standard advice to read the FAQ first; it's just that they don't get their > questions answered in the sci.agriculture.beekeeping FAQ as it currently exists. > Anybody willing to compile one that tracks some of recent threads? For about the last two years, I've _tried_ to get people to write these specific FAQs and then archive them all in one place --where anyone could read them: I'll offer yet again: anyone who wants to make beekeeping information available on the internet, please be aware that I can archive your work and also point to it with all the latest web and net resources. Adam -- ________________________________ Adam Finkelstein adamf@vtaix.cc.vt.edu Adaptive significance-- what's that? ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 Sep 1995 07:34:04 -1000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Thomas W. Culliney -- Dept. of Agriculture" Subject: Re: Apistan strips in hive during flow In-Reply-To: There probably is little danger of poisoning friends or relatives who consume honey from comb exposed to Apistan strips. In tests conducted by Zoecon Corporation, the manufacturer, the active ingredient in Apistan, fluvalinate (a broad-spectrum, cyanopyrethroid contact miticide), showed low mammalian acute toxicity and no apparent oncogenic, teratogenic, or adverse reproductive effects. Studies also showed few or no detectable residues in either honey or wax. At worst, the recipients of your honey have had minimal exposure to any synthetic toxicants, and probably run no more risk of injury than they would in consuming the "natural pesticides" present in foods. However, it is prudent to minimize as much as possible one's exposure to synthetic pesticides in the diet. In any case, as EPA has established no tolerance levels for fluvalinate in honey, it would be illegal knowingly to sell or give away potentially contaminated honey. Tom Culliney culliney@elele.peacesat.hawaii.edu ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 19 Sep 1995 09:44:58 +1200 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Cliff Van Eaton Subject: Re: Apistan strips in hive during flow -Reply I was very interested in Tom Culliney's information on toxicity of fluvalinate (Hi, Tom!). As most of you would be aware, fluvalinate is not only used in Apistan; it is also an insecticide which is used in horticulture and agriculture on a range of pests, including aphids, thrips, whitefly, and leafroller. It has a residual effect, while at the same time being "soft" on many predator and pollinating insects. It does, however, have a high toxicity on predator mites. In New Zealand, fluvalinate is approved for use on kiwifruit for leafroller, up to and including flowering, but not after. Because it is so "bee safe", its use has greatly reduced bee kills during the early stages of pollination of the crop (when adjacent orchards come into bloom at different times). The Kiwifruit Pollination Association, a beekeepers' group in New Zealand, recommends the chemical to kiwifruit growers. The problem, though, is at the end of the bloom period. Growers here must use other, less "bee safe" insecticides at this time because (I have been told) no tolerance levels have been established for fluvalinate on food. Since almost all New Zealand kiwifruit is exported, and chemical residues of any kind are a major issue in maintaining access to overseas markets, growers here are strictly audited to ensure that fluvalinate is not applied after petal fall. As a result, because of the staggered bloom period between kiwifruit orchards, we still experience bee deaths at the end of flowering. As you can imagine, beekeepers in New Zealand would dearly love to have fluvalinate registered for post-blossom on kiwifruit. As Tom points out, fluvainate has low mammalian acute toxicity (LD50 - 5150mg/kg oral, >2100mg/kg dermal) and no apparent oncogenic, teratogenic, or adverse reproductive effects. So the mystery is why haven't tolerance levels been established for the chemical? Does anyone have any further information on why tolerance levels in foods have not been established for fluvalinate? Is it just a matter of the costs involved in establishing such tolerances, or is there some other issue involved? ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 Sep 1995 19:18:21 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Pete Gentile Subject: Re: Residue on wax In-Reply-To: On Sun, 17 Sep 1995, Ann Dougherty wrote: > I've noticed a whitish, frosty residue on my bees wax products that makes > them look very unattractive. It reminds me of powdery mildew that grows > on many plants this time of year. Any idea what this stuff is and how to > remove it? > It's called "bloom" and its natural. Heat your products with a hair dryer, that should remove the frost. Pete, NJ ______________________________________________________________________________ The Paranormal Pub | Newsletter | A Thing is impossible until it is not! PO Box 313 | Tuckerton, NJ 08087 | USA | _________________________|____________________________________________________ "Science is not all known and logic is nebulous." ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 Sep 1995 19:20:40 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Pete Gentile Subject: Re: Apistan strips in hive during flow In-Reply-To: <9509180628.AA06860@whidbey> On Sun, 17 Sep 1995, wilhelm e kaosse wrote: > >Michael G. Byrne, (you), wrote: > >> > >> I left 2 apistan strips on the brood chamber of a new hive all summer. After > >> rereading the instructions, I realize this is not the appropriate > >> technique, and the honey from this hive sould not be used. > >> > >> Is this the correct conclusion? > >> > > > >Yep. > >Adam > > Adam > > As a new hobbyist I did the same thing AND its too late for me to NOT use > the honey. I've consumed the 30 lbs of white honey I took off the hive in > July. I also took another 20 lbs of very dark honey off this week and will > probably take another 20 lbs at the end of sept. as I shrink the hive down > to 2 brood chambers and a shallow super for the mild(Vancouver, BC.)winter. > My question is...what have I done to those friends and relatives I fed the > honey to? > You have fed them insecticide. Pete, NJ ______________________________________________________________________________ The Paranormal Pub | Newsletter | A Thing is impossible until it is not! PO Box 313 | Tuckerton, NJ 08087 | USA | _________________________|____________________________________________________ "Science is not all known and logic is nebulous." ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 Sep 1995 04:12:00 GMT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Andy Nachbaur Organization: WILD BEE'S BBS (209) 826-8107 LOS BANOS, CA Subject: Apistan strips in hive during flow >From: "Michael G. Byrne" >Date: Sun, 17 Sep 1995 15:14:24 -0700 >Subject: Apistan strips in hive during flow >I left 2 apistan strips on the brood chamber of a new hive all summer. After >rereading the instructions, I realize this is not the appropriate >technique, and the honey from this hive sould not be used. >Is this the correct conclusion? Hello Michael, Waste not, want not. Before you read this you must realize that life gives us all many choices and if you allow other's to chose for you, you may not be living. (A. Lincoln, class of '55) YES and NO! You were right about the instructions. If you use the honey yourself the amount of chemical and breakdown products should be low enough to be safe,(IMHO), if not the bee's would be dieing. You can reduce the amount of residue you will ingest by removing the wax capping and only consuming the honey as the wax has absorbed the majority of the active chemical. The amount of chemical you will be ingesting will be no more then what most absorb into their system through their skin as many beekeepers use no gloves when handling these strips and it is not uncommon to find them lose in their pick me up truck and around the junk in their honey barns or on the cabinet shelf on the back porch. It is well to remember that beekeepers may think they are buying pounds of active ingredients for the dollar's they are spending but factually they are getting a few pennies's worth and minuscule amounts of active material in an "so called" safe confident application package. I have seen many of these strips left out side the hive in regulatory use that had been chewed up by range cattle several times and never have heard of a cow getting sick or dieing from them. Many beekeepers today put the strips in the brood chamber's of their hives and never remove them, a violation of the label for sure, but a common use practice and one that could have been used to justified the reduction of the active ingredient in the product so that those who were able to use as directed,.. and then get a 2nd or 3rd use, now are 'peeing up a rope' as some old beekeepers would say. In my youth 'safetees' that one time were made of animal guts were then made of latex, a benefit from WW II. They were designed to be re-used, same as tires, by putting them in a glass of bedside water same as you would put your false teeth if you had any. Some may have used the same water glass. Today no one would think of doing this but beekeeper's who commonly re-use their prophylactic's used for vampire mites. If you market honey, like to a Honey Co-Op then it would be wise to send in a sample to be checked prior to shipping. Some Co-Op's like Sue Bee do regular checking for many chemicals known to be used by beekeepers, both approved and those not approved and each year some honey is rejected and returned to the honey producer. If the chemical is one that is not approved for use then they also "must" and do inform the authorities of what they found and the goon squad from Pure Food & Drug follows up with a visit to that producer to be sure that drum or 100 drums was destroyed or fed back to the bees, a sad day for that beekeeper. To bad the regulatory agencies are not as diligent with imported honey from China found containing added sugars, but now that they are going to get higher prices forced on them by our government they will not have to add as much. ttul Andy- (c)Permission to reproduce, granted. Opinions are not necessarily facts. --- ~ QMPro 1.53 ~ ~ Timer Malfunction! The sun went behind the clouds! ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 15 Sep 1995 15:13:00 PDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Wendy Lewis Subject: bee sting allergies --Boundary (ID ZVk/vcdWum2L1eFW2mO7wA) Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN --Boundary (ID ZVk/vcdWum2L1eFW2mO7wA) Content-type: MESSAGE/RFC822 Date: Wed, 13 Sep 1995 08:35:00 PDT From: Wendy Lewis Subject: bee allergies To: BEE_L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN Posting-date: Wed, 13 Sep 1995 08:36:00 PDT Importance: normal A1-type: MAIL I tried sending this note a few days ago, but was unsuccessful. Here it is again! Wendy Lewis --Boundary (ID ZVk/vcdWum2L1eFW2mO7wA) Content-type: MESSAGE/RFC822 Date: Tue, 12 Sep 1995 08:49:00 PDT From: Wendy Lewis Subject: bee sting allergies To: BEE_L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN Posting-date: Tue, 12 Sep 1995 13:25:00 PDT Importance: normal A1-type: MAIL Hi all, As a hobbyist beekeeper who suffers from pollen allergies and from severe reactions to bee stings, I'd like to share some personal observations with you. I have been undergoing immunotherapy for my pollen allergies, with very good results. But for bee stings, my allergist (who understands my need to keep bees) prefers not to proceed with bee venom immunotherapy unless her patients have exhibited symptoms of anaphylactic reaction (drop in blood pressure, itching throat, hives, problems with breathing). Luckily, my symptoms are only severe swelling and intense itching at the sting site. The tricky thing too, with bee stings, is that it is possible for someone who has not shown prior anaphylactic symptoms with stings, all of a sudden to become hyperreactive. It might be on account of this that some allergists are reluctant to proceed with bee venom immunotherapy. I say, find yourself an allergist who will support your decision to keep bees, get a prescription for and carry an Epi-Pen insect sting kit with you and ALWAYS work with another beekeeper. And keep on keeping bees! Wendy Lewis Mission Viejo, California --Boundary (ID ZVk/vcdWum2L1eFW2mO7wA)-- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 19 Sep 1995 16:48:49 U Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jan Forbes Subject: Apiculture of Australian Na Apiculture of Australian Native Bees Can anyone provide me with any information or contacts regarding the keeping of Australian Native Bees (in Australia obviously). I saw a TV show several years ago about a man who was doing so successfully. Any info e-mailed to me would be appreciated. Jan ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 19 Sep 1995 10:39:16 +0100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jean-Marie Van Dyck Subject: Fluvalinate in hive products ? Fluvalinate in hive products ... Hello all, ======> Fluvalinate in honey ? Recent spanish searchers results gave us some indications about : J.Atienza, J.J.Jimenez, J.L. Bernal and M.T.Martin. Supercritical fluid extraction of fluvalinate residues in honey. J.Chromatogr. 655 (1993) 95-99. Briefly : few or no fluvalinate in honey from treated hives (3 and 6 mounts ago). One degradation compound (3-phenoxybenzaldehyde) was find : high amount ! ======> Fluvalinate in beeswax ! In Europe, the foundations from the suppliers become more and more contaminated by Fluvalinate : it's becoming "the" fluvalinate problem. Paul Jungels and Jos Guth, the Luxemburg Buckfast bee breeders gave some articles to pay attention to (articles in luxemburg and french, maybe german). Briefly : they suggested to drastically split the brood frames (and wax) from the honey super one (use of plastic frames or foundation made of uncapping wax for honey). They said to increase the turn over of the frames to diminish the fluvalinate level in the brood combs : not only for the risk of inducing varroa resistance but to diminish the letal risk for the queens exposed during a longer time than the workers to high levels of this drug. They suggested to mark and rapidly remove the 4 frames in direct contact with the Apistan strips. Cheers Jean-Marie Long. : 4deg 56' E - Lat. : 50deg 30' N - Alt. : 200 m - North sea : 200 km ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Jean-Marie Van Dyck Fax +32 81 72 42 72 B.P. 102 email : jmvandyck@quick.cc.fundp.ac.be B-5000 NAMUR(Belgium) Medical school - Biochemistry dept This => C'est ma facon de parler ! ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 Sep 1995 18:24:29 +0100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Gordon Scott Subject: Re: The Frugal Beekeeper In-Reply-To: <199509131600.MAA40162@freenet2.freenet.ufl.edu> On Wed, 13 Sep 1995, Kelley Rosenlund wrote: > A 40 oz can (usually yams are packed in it) fits nicely into my smoker > giving it a double wall where all the heat is. I find the outside of the > smoker does not get as hot & hopefully the metal will last longer. I understand it reduces the amount of tar and other 'crud' that build up inside too, helping to keep things cleaner & tidier -- I never got around to it (next time maybe ;-). Regards, -- Gordon Scott gordon@apis.demon.co.uk CompuServe 100332,3310 gordon@multitone.co.uk CompuServe 100070,413 Beekeeper; Kendo 3rd Dan; Sometime sailor. The Basingstoke Beekeeper (newsletter) beekeeper@apis.demon.co.uk ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 19 Sep 1995 15:16:54 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Kelley Rosenlund Subject: Re: The Frugal Beekeeper >On Wed, 13 Sep 1995, Kelley Rosenlund wrote: > >> A 40 oz can (usually yams are packed in it) fits nicely into my smoker >> giving it a double wall where all the heat is. I find the outside of the >> smoker does not get as hot & hopefully the metal will last longer. > >I understand it reduces the amount of tar and other 'crud' that >build up inside too, helping to keep things cleaner & tidier -- I >never got around to it (next time maybe ;-). > Someone said putting a metal scouring pad (used to clean dishes) at the mouth of the smoker would collect tar and could then be washed out. Has anyone tried this?? God Bless, Kelley Rosenlund Gainesville, Fla. U.S.A., 32 hives ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 19 Sep 1995 15:23:16 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Kelley Rosenlund Subject: Many thanks... I would like to thank everyone for all the helpful advice that has been passed on these past few months on the list. I just rented all 32 of my hives to pollinate cucumbers and am looking foward to getting deeper into beekeeping. It is refreshing to get some return ($$$) from all the time & money I have spent since April. I also learned of one of Murphy's Laws on beekeeping: "The largest ant pile of the 40 acre field will always be foound where the farmer wants you to put your bees." What do you kill the little critters with, or do you leave them alone? God Bless, Kelley Rosenlund Gainesville, Fla. U.S.A., 32 hives ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 19 Sep 1995 20:11:22 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: BusyKnight Subject: Re: Many thanks... > >What do you kill the little critters with, or do you leave them alone? > >I use Logic or Award -- it makes the queen infertile. Use one pound per acre. It is the best I have found. Must be used on dry ground and ground temp has to be above 70 degrees (takes six to nine weeks to work, but lasts for two months). If you're only trying to kill one mound - use Amdro. It works faster (two or three days, but other ants can move into the area immediately). ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 19 Sep 1995 23:22:26 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Pete Gentile Subject: Re: Many thanks... In-Reply-To: <199509200111.UAA00418@gateway.airmail.net> On Tue, 19 Sep 1995, BusyKnight wrote: > > > >What do you kill the little critters with, or do you leave them alone? > > > >I use Logic or Award -- it makes the queen infertile. Use one pound per > acre. It is the best I have found. Must be used on dry ground and ground > temp has to be above 70 degrees (takes six to nine weeks to work, but lasts > for two months). > > If you're only trying to kill one mound - use Amdro. It works faster (two > or three days, but other ants can move into the area immediately). > Where does one get this stuff in the US of A? I've never heard of it. Pete, NJ ______________________________________________________________________________ The Paranormal Pub | Newsletter | A Thing is impossible until it is not! PO Box 313 | Tuckerton, NJ 08087 | USA | _________________________|____________________________________________________ "Science is not all known and logic is nebulous." ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 20 Sep 1995 10:43:50 GMT+0100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "MORGAN, ANTHONY" Subject: Re: Heat Honey to Inhibit Crystallization? > Date: Sat, 16 Sep 1995 09:54:20 -070 > From: Jim Osborn > Subject: Re: Heat Honey to Inhibit Crystallization? > As I understand it, 160 degrees F is the temperature to which honey > must be heated to permanently prevent crystalization. It may depend > a bit on the specific nectar source, as the speed with which unheated > honey crystalizes certainly depends strongly on its source. > > The "benefits" of heating include easy flow through the pipes of large > packing plants, consumer confidence for those that think the crystalized > stuff has gone bad, and loss of flavor. Hei! I always understood that the relevant temperature was 60 degrees C ie. 140 degrees F (unless I have converted wrongly). This is not something I have personal experience with as customers here believe that honey should be of the same consistency as butter *not* sirup. (try putting a thick layer of liquid honey on a slice of bread!) Question 1. Who knows from experience what the minimum temperature-time combination is that is necessary to "permanently" prevent crystallisation? Question 2. "The "benefits" of heating include ....... loss of flavor." !!!!! Benefit? What effect does such heat treatment actually have on the honey ie. how much of the various beneficial trace substances are destroyed / changed / reduced in quantity? IMHO anyone who wants a tasteless sirup-like honey could just as well buy sirup! However, if we end up with a honey type that won't crystallise (Rose bay willow herb or bell heather for example) this is of course valued by us for use on ice-cream, fruit deserts etc., but I am very doubtful about heating up our normal finely crystallised honey to obtain a source of liquid honey as I feel that such heat treatment must reduce the honey's health value -- am I wrong?? cheers Tony --------------------------------------------------------------- Anthony N. Morgan (Tony) Fax: +47 73 89 62 86 "Stavshagen" E-mail: anthony@iet.hist.no Midtsandan Sor-Trondelag College 7563 MALVIK Elec. Eng. Department Norway 7005 TRONDHEIM, Norway ---------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 20 Sep 1995 10:53:57 +0100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jean-Marie Van Dyck Subject: crystallisation of honey ! Comments: To: anthony@iet.hist.no Hi all ! Hello Tony ! Honey crystallisation (and honey heating) is a complex process ! Some years ago I gave a article in french about this and the process to direct to a fine crystals product. I have no time now to translate it but I'll give you brief notes soon. Cheers Jean-Marie ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 20 Sep 1995 07:44:07 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Jeffrey P. Murray" Subject: Re: Many thanks... In-Reply-To: (message from Pete Gentile on Tue, 19 Sep 1995 23:22:26 -0400) >> If you're only trying to kill one mound - use Amdro. It works faster (two >> or three days, but other ants can move into the area immediately). >> >Where does one get this stuff in the US of A? I've never heard of it. > >Pete, NJ > I've seen it in hardware stores, grocery stores, etc. Wherever you have a significant fire ant problem, you'll find it readily available. I live in Atlanta, GA. but have also seen it all over Florida. Jeef ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 20 Sep 1995 09:37:47 -0400 Reply-To: rawells@bconnex.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Robin Wells Subject: Re: The Frugal Beekeeper >> A 40 oz can (usually yams are packed in it) fits nicely into my smoker >> giving it a double wall where all the heat is. I find the outside of the >> smoker does not get as hot & hopefully the metal will last longer. > I understand it reduces the amount of tar and other 'crud' that > build up inside too, helping to keep things cleaner & tidier -- I > never got around to it (next time maybe ;-). If it reduces the tar then it is worthwhile looking into, I use a ss smoker and therefore the lifespan of the smoker itself is greatly increased. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Robin Wells rawells@bconnex.net Barrie, Ontario, Canada ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 20 Sep 1995 09:33:30 +0000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Allen Dick Organization: The Beekeepers Subject: Re: Heat Honey to Inhibit Crystallization? > > As I understand it, 160 degrees F is the temperature to which > > honey must be heated to permanently prevent crystalization. It > > may depend a bit on the specific nectar source, as the speed with > > which unheated honey crystalizes certainly depends strongly on its > > source. > Question 1. Who knows from experience what the minimum > temperature-time combination is that is necessary to "permanently" > prevent crystallisation? Honey is not just one thing. It is a category word like 'vehicle'. There are many sources and compositions of honey and generalization is futile and dangerous. > Question 2. "The "benefits" of heating include ....... loss of > flavor." !!!!! Benefit? What effect does such heat treatment > actually have on the honey ie. how much of the various beneficial > trace substances are destroyed / changed / reduced in quantity? Depends how many are there to begin with. > IMHO anyone who wants a tasteless sirup-like honey could just as > well buy sirup! However, if we end up with a honey type that won't > crystallise (Rose bay willow herb or bell heather for example) this > is of course valued by us for use on ice-cream, fruit deserts etc., > but I am very doubtful about heating up our normal finely > crystallised honey to obtain a source of liquid honey as I feel that > such heat treatment must reduce the honey's health value -- am I > wrong?? We have customers who buy honey for its medicinal properties - they make an old German cure, They insist on totally raw honey - straight out of the extractor. One time we accidentally sold him honey that had been heated to 120 degrees F. He came back and complained that his remedy wasn't working and wanted more honey - but wanted assurances that it had experienced no heat. FWIW. > cheers Tony > --------------------------------------------------------------- > Anthony N. Morgan (Tony) Fax: +47 73 89 62 86 > "Stavshagen" E-mail: anthony@iet.hist.no > Midtsandan Sor-Trondelag College 7563 > MALVIK Elec. Eng. Department Norway > 7005 TRONDHEIM, Norway > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > Regards Allen W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper VE6CFK Rural Route One, Swalwell, Alberta Canada T0M 1Y0 Honey. Bees, Art, & Futures ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 20 Sep 1995 10:55:28 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: BusyKnight Subject: Re: Many thanks... >On Tue, 19 Sep 1995, BusyKnight wrote: > > >> >I use Logic or Award -- it makes the queen infertile. Use one pound per >> acre. It is the best I have found. Must be used on dry ground and ground >> temp has to be above 70 degrees (takes six to nine weeks to work, but lasts >> for two months). >> >Where does one get this stuff in the US of A? I've never heard of it. > >Pete, NJ > >A correction to the above original statement: Logic/Award should have said that it kills fire ants for TWELVE (12) months [not two]. When I treat my five acres in March (its hot in TX by then, i.e., ground temp above 70F), I do not have to treat again until the following year. It is expensive (like Andro) but you only use 1 lb. to 1.5 lbs. per acre so it goes a long way. Our bee club has even bought it in "bulk" (i.e., 25 lbs.) and sold it to members at a discount and still made money for the club. I have bought Logic (Award is just another 'name' brand of the same) at Home Depot here in Dallas. We bought the 'bulk' size from a pest control operator who could buy it at a good price. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 20 Sep 1995 09:54:29 +0000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Allen Dick Organization: The Beekeepers Subject: Ants > >> If you're only trying to kill one mound - use Amdro. It works > >> faster (two or three days, but other ants can move into the area > >> immediately). > >> > >Where does one get this stuff in the US of A? I've never heard of > >it. > I've seen it in hardware stores, grocery stores, etc. Wherever > you have a significant fire ant problem, you'll find it readily > available. I live in Atlanta, GA. but have also seen it all over > Florida. Not all ants are harmful to bees. Since they are close relatives to bees, we should appreciate them and conserve them where possible. Observe whether they are predator ants or not. Just because they go in and out of hives does not necessarily mean they are harmful. Often the best spot for hives *is* exactly where ants are flourishing. It a sign we look for that is a hint of the microclimate. Regards Allen W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper VE6CFK Rural Route One, Swalwell, Alberta Canada T0M 1Y0 Honey. Bees, Art, & Futures ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 20 Sep 1995 11:17:21 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: BusyKnight Subject: Re: Ants >Not all ants are harmful to bees. Since they are close relatives to >bees, we should appreciate them and conserve them where possible. > >Observe whether they are predator ants or not. Just because they go >in and out of hives does not necessarily mean they are harmful. > >Regards > >Allen All Bee List, I agree with Allen, all my comments were in regard to FIRE ANTS. In Texas they are a small red ant and once you've experienced a fire ant mound you'll remember exactly what they are! The Logic/Award DOES NOT harm other native ants as far as I can tell. For example, I continue to have what we call a "sugar ant" in my yard (year 'round). It is a small native black ant that seems to do no harm to the bee hives. Standing in/on a fire ant mount reminds me of a joke: The customer of a blacksmith wondered into his shop one day and was pokin' around looking at stuff and handling everything! When the nosey fellow pickup a hot houseshoe and immediately tossed it back down, the blacksmith said, "Ah, burned ya didn't it?" And the coustomer said, "No it doesn't take me long to look at a horseshoe." Well if you've experienced fire ants, it won't take you long to see enough! They do have one redeming value, they can really do a job on wax moth invested frames (the wax moths, larve, etc don't stand a chance). ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 20 Sep 1995 13:12:54 -0400 Reply-To: Mason Harris Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Mason Harris Subject: No more Paramoth? Hi Bee folks! I just spoke with the folks at Mannlake Bee Supply. They told me they can not sell Paramoth anymore due to a problem with something on the label and the EPA. Here is my question: I need to store my supers over winter. Where can I get paradiclorabenzine (sp) or moth crystals? Are regular moth balls the same thing? Mannlake said no. This is my first complete year bee keeping and I would hate to have all my newly drawn out frames eaten by wax moths over the winter. Any ideas? Mason Harris Burlingame, CA E-Mail: SMHARRIS@ED.CO.SANMATEO.CA.US ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 20 Sep 1995 13:37:41 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Pete Gentile Subject: Re: Ants In-Reply-To: <199509201617.LAA22821@gateway.airmail.net> On Wed, 20 Sep 1995, BusyKnight wrote: > > All Bee List, > I agree with Allen, all my comments were in regard to FIRE ANTS. In Texas > they are a small red ant and once you've experienced a fire ant mound you'll > remember exactly what they are! The Logic/Award DOES NOT harm other native > ants as far as I can tell. For example, I continue to have what we call a > "sugar ant" in my yard (year 'round). It is a small native black ant that > seems to do no harm to the bee hives. > Standing in/on a fire ant mount reminds me of a joke: The customer of a > blacksmith wondered into his shop one day and was pokin' around looking at > stuff and handling everything! When the nosey fellow pickup a hot houseshoe > and immediately tossed it back down, the blacksmith said, "Ah, burned ya > didn't it?" And the coustomer said, "No it doesn't take me long to look at > a horseshoe." Well if you've experienced fire ants, it won't take you long > to see enough! They do have one redeming value, they can really do a job on > wax moth invested frames (the wax moths, larve, etc don't stand a chance). > Ah yes! I spent three months a Lackland AFB, I remember the fire ants well!!! Pete, NJ ______________________________________________________________________________ The Paranormal Pub | Newsletter | A Thing is impossible until it is not! PO Box 313 | Tuckerton, NJ 08087 | USA | _________________________|____________________________________________________ "Science is not all known and logic is nebulous." ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 20 Sep 1995 13:49:19 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Pete Gentile Subject: Re: Many thanks... In-Reply-To: <199509201144.HAA16454@acmex.gatech.edu> On Wed, 20 Sep 1995, Jeffrey P. Murray wrote: > >> If you're only trying to kill one mound - use Amdro. It works faster (two > >> or three days, but other ants can move into the area immediately). > >> > >Where does one get this stuff in the US of A? I've never heard of it. > > > >Pete, NJ > > > > I've seen it in hardware stores, grocery stores, etc. Wherever > you have a significant fire ant problem, you'll find it readily > available. I live in Atlanta, GA. but have also seen it all over > Florida. > > Jeef > No fire ants in New Jersey, explaines why I've never seen it. Pete, NJ ______________________________________________________________________________ The Paranormal Pub | Newsletter | A Thing is impossible until it is not! PO Box 313 | Tuckerton, NJ 08087 | USA | _________________________|____________________________________________________ "Science is not all known and logic is nebulous." ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 20 Sep 1995 13:49:33 -0400 Reply-To: Mason Harris Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Mason Harris Subject: The Frugal Beekeeper I have seen the copper type dish pads used in smokers this year. They are held in place at the tip of the smoker by a nail which has been driven through the tip of the smoker and through the copper pad inside the tip. The nail is held in place by some thin wire which wraps around the end of the nail on the outside of the smoker and goes over the top of the tip and wraps around the other end of the nail sticking out the other side. I was told this is a good thing to do to your smoker. It collects residues of the what is being burned in the smoker and it keeps the bees from getting burned by flames that come out of the tip of the smoker from over zelous bellows pumping when fuel gets low. Mason Harris Burlingame, CA E-Mail: SMHARRIS@ED.CO.SANMATEO.CA.US ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 20 Sep 1995 16:16:49 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Alden Leatherman Subject: Varroa killing colony... ? Greetings to all. I've been lurking on the list for several months but now have a problem I really need some help with. Although I think it would be somewhat unusual for a colony to be killed off by Varroa at this time of year, I think that is what is happening right now. This is a colony that I started from a package in April (in Michigan) and from which I harvested 2 medium supers of beautiful fully capped honey the first week of Sept. What I am seeing is dead pupae in open, capped and partially uncapped cells; varroa running on the comb when I poke at a cluster of bees with my finger; bees with their head stuck in brood cells which back out when I tickle them, most of which are deformed with short abdomens, and the very most rear parts that are sticking out of the cells are dry and white. The population is WAY down, the yellow jackets completely dominate the entrance, and I'm sure this colony won't survive the autumn. I suspected sacbrood when I first saw this 3 weeks ago ( no bees sticking heads in the cells then ) but now when I come back from vacation, things have deteriorated dramatically and I see in "Hive and the Honeybee" that shrunken abdomens and dead brood can be result of varroa kill. That with actually seeing 5 or 6 varroa running on a small area of comb when I poke at a small cluster of bees has got me pretty much convinced that varroa are doing them in. I have never seen a description of a varroa killed colony and have wondered how people know varroa are responsible for overwinter losses. Any help here? What do I do with this colony? What do I do with the combs of dead brood after the colony has died off? Thanks for any responses. Alden Leatherman alden_leatherman@state.mi.us ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 20 Sep 1995 15:24:44 EDT Reply-To: "Glen B. Glater" Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Glen B. Glater" Subject: About Paramoth and perhaps the reason why you can't buy it This is taken from the URL http://atsdr1.atsdr.cdc.gov:8080/tfacts10.html. I hope that it helps. The Internet is wonderful... --glen o / cut along this line --X---------------------------------------------------------------------------- o \ TOXFAQS 1,4-DICHLOROBENZENE APRIL 1993 _________________________________________________________________ AGENCY FOR TOXIC SUBSTANCES AND DISEASE REGISTRY _________________________________________________________________ This fact sheet answers the most frequently asked health questions about 1,4-dichlorobenzene. For more information, you may call 404-639-6000. This fact sheet is one in a series of summaries about hazardous substances and their health effects. This information is important because this substance may harm you. The effects of exposure to any hazardous substance depend on the dose, the duration, how you are exposed, personal traits and habits, and whether other chemicals are present. _________________________________________________________________ SUMMARY: Exposure to 1,4-dichlorobenzene happens mostly from breathing high levels in indoor air or workplace air. Extremely high exposures can cause dizziness, headaches, and liver problems. 1,4-Dichlorobenzene has been found in at least 244 of 1,300 National Priorities List sites identified by the Environmental Protection Agency. What is 1,4-dichlorobenzene? (Pronounced di - klo'ro - ben'zeen) 1,4-Dichlorobenzene is a chemical used to control moths, molds, and mildew, and to deodorize restrooms and waste containers. It is also called para-DCB or p-DCB. Other names include Paramoth, para crystals, and paracide reflecting its widespread use to kill moths. At room temperature, p-DCB is a white or colorless solid with a strong, pungent odor. When exposed to air, it slowly changes from a solid to a vapor. It is the vapor that acts as a deodorizer or insect killer. Most people recognize the odor as the smell of mothballs, and can smell p-DCB in the air at very low levels. Most p-DCB in our environment comes from its use in moth repellent products and in toilet deodorizer blocks. What happens to 1,4-dichlorobenzene when it enters the environment? * In air, it breaks down to harmless products in about a month. * It does not dissolve easily in water. * It evaporates easily from water and soil, so most is found in the air. * It is not easily broken down by soil organisms. * It is taken up and retained by plants and fish. How might I be exposed to 1,4-dichlorobenzene? * Breathing indoor air in public restrooms and homes that use p-DCB as a deodorizer * Breathing air around some mothballs (check the label) * Breathing workplace air where p-DCB is manufactured * Drinking contaminated water around hazardous waste sites * Eating foods such as pork, chicken, and eggs that are contaminated with p-DCB from its use as an odor control product in animal stalls * Eating fish from contaminated waters * Infants can be exposed by drinking human breast milk from mothers exposed to p-DCB How can 1,4-dichlorobenzene affect my health? There is no evidence that moderate use of common household products that contain p-DCB will result in harmful effects to your health. Harmful effects, however, may occur from high exposures. Very high usage of p-DCB products in the home can result in dizziness, headaches, and liver problems. Some of the patients who developed these symptoms had been using the products for months or even years after they first began to feel ill. Workers breathing high levels of p-DCB (1,000 times more than levels in deodorized rooms) have reported painful irritation of the nose and eyes. There are cases of people who have eaten p-DCB products regularly for months to years because of the sweet taste. These people had skin blotches and lower numbers of red blood cells. There is no direct evidence that p-DCB can cause birth defects or affect reproduction in humans. Animal studies indicate that breathing or eating p-DCB can harm the liver, kidney, and blood. We have no studies on the health effects from skin contact with p-DCB. How likely is 1,4-dichlorobenzene to cause cancer? The Department of Health and Human Services (DHHS) has determined that p-DCB may reasonably be anticipated to be a carcinogen. There is no direct evidence that p-DCB can cause cancer in humans, however, animals given very high amounts in water developed liver and kidney tumors. Is there a medical test to show whether I've been exposed to 1,4-dichlorobenzene? Tests are available to measure your exposure to p-DCB. The most common test measures a breakdown product of p-DCB called 2,5-dichlorophenolurine. It is measured in the urine and blood. If there is 2,5-dichlorophenol in the urine, it indicates that the person was exposed to p-DCB within the previous day or two. The test that measures p-DCB in your blood is less common. These tests require special equipment not routinely available in a doctor's office. You or your doctor will need to send samples to a special laboratory. Has the federal government made recommendations to protect human health? The Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) lists p-DCB as a hazardous waste to be regulated. The EPA sets a maximum level of 75 micrograms of p-DCB per liter of drinking water (75 5g/L). One 5g is one million times less than a gram. p-DCB is also an EPA-registered pesticide. Manufacturers must provide certain information to EPA for it to be used as a pesticide. The Occupational Safety and Health Administration (OSHA) sets a maximum level of 75 parts of p-DCB per million parts air in the workplace (75 ppm) for an 8-hour day, 40-hour workweek. Glossary Carcinogen: Substance that can cause cancer. Ingestion: Taking food or drink into your body. Microgram (5g): One millionth of a gram. PPM: Parts per million. References Agency for Toxic Substances and Disease Registry (ATSDR). 1993. Toxicological profile for 1,4-dichlorobenzene. Atlanta: U.S. Department of Health and Human Services, Public Health Service. Where can I get more information? ATSDR can tell you where to find occupational and environmental health clinics. Their specialists can recognize, evaluate, and treat illnesses resulting from exposure to hazardous substances. You can also contact your community or state health or environmental quality department if you have any more questions or concerns. For more information, contact: Agency for Toxic Substances and Disease Registry Division of Toxicology 1600 Clifton Road NE, Mailstop E-29 Atlanta, GA 30333 Phone: 404-639-6000 [IMAGE] U.S. Department of Health and Human Services Public Health Service Agency for Toxic Substances and Disease Registry _________________________________________________________________ Link to ATSDR Science Corner Link to ATSDR Home Page _________________________________________________________________ Charlie Xintaras / chx1@atsoaa1.em.cdc.gov ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 20 Sep 1995 15:41:28 EDT Reply-To: "Glen B. Glater" Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Glen B. Glater" Subject: Re: Varroa killing colony... ? Comments: cc: alden_leatherman@state.mi.us Alden: You said: >Although I think it would be somewhat unusual for a colony to be killed >off by Varroa at this time of year, I think that is what is happening right >now. This is a colony that I started from a package in April (in Michigan) >and from which I harvested 2 medium supers of beautiful fully capped >honey the first week of Sept. What I am seeing is dead pupae in open, >capped and partially uncapped cells; varroa running on the comb when I >poke at a cluster of bees with my finger; bees with their head stuck in >brood cells which back out when I tickle them, most of which are >deformed with short abdomens, and the very most rear parts that are >sticking out of the cells are dry and white. The population is WAY down, >the yellow jackets completely dominate the entrance, and I'm sure this >colony won't survive the autumn. I suspected sacbrood when I first >saw this 3 weeks ago ( no bees sticking heads in the cells then ) but >now when I come back from vacation, things have deteriorated >dramatically and I see in "Hive and the Honeybee" that shrunken >abdomens and dead brood can be result of varroa kill. That with actually >seeing 5 or 6 varroa running on a small area of comb when I poke at a >small cluster of bees has got me pretty much convinced that varroa are >doing them in. I have never seen a description of a varroa killed colony >and have wondered how people know varroa are responsible for >overwinter losses. > >Any help here? What do I do with this colony? What do I do with the >combs of dead brood after the colony has died off? Well, I don't have answers to your questions, but I can say that there are a couple of excellent articles about varroa detection and appearance on the Web site for the Carl Hayden Bee Research Center. In addition, there are scientists there who can answer many of the questions posed on this list, such as the immunological reaction to bee venom. Check out http://198.22.133.109/gears/rf/index.html for the Varroa articles and http://198.22.133.109/ for the main site page. --glen ************************************************************** Midnight Networks Inc. * 200 Fifth Avenue * Waltham, MA 02154 Glen B. Glater Principal, Strategic Networking Group Phone: (617) 890-1001 Fax: (617) 890-0028 Internet: glen@midnight.com http://www.midnight.com/~glen ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 20 Sep 1995 17:21:32 CDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Rachel Hempel I would like information on beekeeping in India and China. I am doing a report comparing these contries to the United States. Any info would be appreciated! ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 20 Sep 1995 22:00:35 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Pete Gentile Subject: Re: Varroa killing colony... ? In-Reply-To: On Wed, 20 Sep 1995, Alden Leatherman wrote: > > Although I think it would be somewhat unusual for a colony to be killed > off by Varroa at this time of year, I think that is what is happening right > now. This is a colony that I started from a package in April (in Michigan) > and from which I harvested 2 medium supers of beautiful fully capped > honey the first week of Sept. What I am seeing is dead pupae in open, > capped and partially uncapped cells; varroa running on the comb when I > poke at a cluster of bees with my finger; bees with their head stuck in > brood cells which back out when I tickle them, most of which are > deformed with short abdomens, and the very most rear parts that are > sticking out of the cells are dry and white. The population is WAY down, > the yellow jackets completely dominate the entrance, and I'm sure this > colony won't survive the autumn. I suspected sacbrood when I first > saw this 3 weeks ago ( no bees sticking heads in the cells then ) but > now when I come back from vacation, things have deteriorated > dramatically and I see in "Hive and the Honeybee" that shrunken > abdomens and dead brood can be result of varroa kill. That with actually > seeing 5 or 6 varroa running on a small area of comb when I poke at a > small cluster of bees has got me pretty much convinced that varroa are > doing them in. I have never seen a description of a varroa killed colony > and have wondered how people know varroa are responsible for > overwinter losses. > > Any help here? What do I do with this colony? What do I do with the > combs of dead brood after the colony has died off? > > I hived a swarm in the spring that was doing very well until now. At this time they are over run by mites and are on their last leg. Mites may not be directly responsible during this time of the year, but given other factors, mites can send them over the edge. Thankfully they are many miles away from my other colonies. Pete, NJ ______________________________________________________________________________ The Paranormal Pub | Newsletter | A Thing is impossible until it is not! PO Box 313 | Tuckerton, NJ 08087 | USA | _________________________|____________________________________________________ "Science is not all known and logic is nebulous." ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 20 Sep 1995 21:49:41 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Phil Soderman Subject: Paper Wasp control? Help My daughter lives on a rural Nevada farm in the Gardnerville area. The exterior of their house is infested with "hundreds" of black and yellow wasps with paper nests. Is there anything that can be done to control-kill them, such as bait type traps? Roof repair is needed before winter and any nailing of shingles brings out many angry wasps. This house is surrounded by rangeland so this may be a fine wasp nesting habitat-house. Any suggestions? Sorry for bothering the BEE-L group with wasp and not bee subject Thanks for the help. Phil Soderman sgrower1@rain.org ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 20 Sep 1995 22:09:28 -0800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Mark Jensen Subject: Re: Heat Honey to Inhibit Crystallization? >Question 1. Who knows from experience what the minimum >temperature-time combination is that is necessary to "permanently" >prevent crystallisation? I have found that holding the honey at normal hive temperatures (95-100=B0F) in a holding tank for several days (the longer the better) has completely eliminated crystallization of my honey on the store shelves. This is accomplished without any detectable change in flavor or quality of the honey. The reason this works is that it allows all of the small crystals that are present in the extracted honey to completely dissolve eliminating any starting point for crystals to form. I do not believe this is a permanent effect, but it seems to work for at least several months. It has completely eliminated the need to take returns of crystallized honey even from stores which I only service once every 2 months. Mark Jensen mjensen@crl.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 21 Sep 1995 07:26:17 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Jeffrey P. Murray" Subject: Re: No more Paramoth? Comments: To: smharris@smcoe-ns.ed.co.sanmateo.ca.us In-Reply-To: (message from Mason Harris on Wed, 20 Sep 1995 13:12:54 -0400) >Hi Bee folks! > >I just spoke with the folks at Mannlake Bee Supply. They told me they can not >sell Paramoth anymore due to a problem with something on the label and the >EPA. Here is my question: I need to store my supers over winter. Where can >I get paradiclorabenzine (sp) or moth crystals? Are regular moth balls the >same thing? Mannlake said no. This is my first complete year bee keeping and >I would hate to have all my newly drawn out frames eaten by wax moths over the >winter. Any ideas? > >Mason Harris >Burlingame, CA >E-Mail: >SMHARRIS@ED.CO.SANMATEO.CA.US > Well, I don't know the size of your outfit, but if you only have a few hives, you may want to take the trouble to freeze the empty frames, then wrap the supers in plastic garbage bags. I've been doing this with drawn comb for a couple of years and have yet to have a moth problem. The freezing (easier to accomplish if you have access to a deep freezer, but I've used the top of my fridge for two or three frames at a time) kills the wax moth larvae without chemicals, and wrapping tightly in garbage bags deters re-infestation by the moths. I keep mine in my basement, but I would think storing in a barn or garage would also work. Hope this helps! Jeeeeeef ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 21 Sep 1995 08:35:52 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Benet J. Pardini" Subject: Re: Heat Honey to Inhibit Crystallization? After reading the comment about heating honey to 160 degrees F (jimo@ESKIMO.COM), and another comment about potential loss of trace substances, etc. (ANTHONY@IET.HIST.NO), I recalled hearing about flash heaters that raise the temperature of honey to high temperatures very quickly, but only for a very short period of time (unlike conventional methods) thereby preventing crystallization, but (apparently) not removing trace substances, flavor, etc. Any info out there on flash heaters? Also, although honey thins to a syrup - that's "sirup" for all you Norwegians out there :-) - when at higher temperatures, its consistency returns to normal when returned to room temperature, so there's no worry of driving away customers with "thin" honey (voiced by ANTHONY@IET.HIST.NO) by the heating process (personal experience only to 100-105 degrees F (38-41 degrees C) for 24 hrs). Late winter stores of honey that are in the process of, or have crystallized in a cool basement return to their original consistency by heating similarly until all crystals have dissolved. The honey should remain in its original thick, liquid state until the next year's harvest. Also, is it true that honey can only go "bad" while in the crystallized state? Thanks for the comments so far. Ben Pardini (benet-pardini@uiowa.edu) (original crystallization post) ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 21 Sep 1995 15:08:58 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Mike Ramundo Organization: University at Albany Computing & Network Services Subject: BEE-L users/subscribers at IFASGNV.BITNET /( WITHOUT setting a NEWNODE tag ) the node named IFASGNV dropped out of BITNET. While it appears that you can still SEND mail via BITNET, there is no way anyone can send mail TO you via bitnet !!!! PLEASE stop sending commands to check your subscriptions and/or fetch logs via BITNET. Use the nodename cnsibm.albany.edu and send via internet thanks - Mike postmast@cnsibm.albany.edu ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 21 Sep 1995 15:30:15 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Malcolm T. Sanford" Subject: September APIS I am having problems getting posts from this list and did not get the usual acknowledgement concerning the September issue of my APIS newsletter. If it was not received by the list, I can repost it. Please respond directly to me as my problems continue. Tom Sanford +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Malcolm (Tom) Sanford Extension Apiculturist University of Florida Mailing Address: Bldg 970, Hull Rd., Gainesville, FL 32611-0620 Voice phone 904/392-1801, Ext. 143 FAX 904/392-0190 INTERNET:MTS@GNV.IFAS.UFL.EDU ==================================================================== Publisher of APIS -- http://gnv.ifas.ufl.edu/~entweb/apis/apis.htm Instructor of Principles of Entomology, ENY 3005-- http://gnv.ifas.ufl.edu/~mts/eny3005/eny3005syl.htm +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 21 Sep 1995 16:11:18 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Lucy Cronin Subject: fumagillin Does anyone out there have any information as to how long fumagillin stays in the hive after being ingested. Will it be found in the honey at all? Regards, Lucy ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 21 Sep 1995 19:47:54 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Laura Downey Subject: Beekeeping equipment wanted John Halstead - Your brother called me last night about the extractor and electric knife. Thank you for pointing him in my direction. Please send me an e-mail so that I can get in touch with you if I need to. Thank you! Laura Downey (corvi29@aol.com) ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 21 Sep 1995 20:30:02 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jean-Pierre Chapleau Subject: Re: Apiculture in China >I would like information on beekeeping in India and China. I am doing a >report comparing these contries to the United States. Any info would be >appreciated! > > I suggest "APICULTURE IN CHINA" written by Chen Yaochun, 1993. I think it is available from IBRA. It covers all the asects of beekeeping in China. For a more objective coverage, I suggest that you consult the numerous articles that were published in many beekeeping journals in the fall and winter of 1993, right after the Beijing Apimondia congress. Jean-Pierre Chapleau eleveur de reines / queen breeder vice-president du Conseil canadien du miel / Vice-president of the Canadian Honey Council 1282, rang 8, Saint-Adrien de Ham, Quebec, Canada, J0A 1C0 tel./phone (819) 828-3396; fax (819) 828-0357 chapleau@praline.net ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 21 Sep 1995 21:10:23 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jean-Pierre Chapleau Subject: Re: Heat Honey to Inhibit Crystallization? >>Question 1. Who knows from experience what the minimum >>temperature-time combination is that is necessary to "permanently" >>prevent crystallisation? > >I have found that holding the honey at normal hive temperatures (95-100=B0F= ) >in a holding tank for several days (the longer the better) has completely >eliminated crystallization of my honey on the store shelves. This is >accomplished without any detectable change in flavor or quality of the >honey. The reason this works is that it allows all of the small crystals >that are present in the extracted honey to completely dissolve eliminating >any starting point for crystals to form. I do not believe this is a >permanent effect, but it seems to work for at least several months. It has >completely eliminated the need to take returns of crystallized honey even >from stores which I only service once every 2 months. > >Mark Jensen mjensen@crl.com > > Storing honey for a long period at 95-100 F will definitely increase the its HMF content and alter its quality and taste. If one wants to preserve the quality of the honey, the cooler the storing temperature, the best. In North America, the consumer is more concerned by the appearance of the product thant by its taste and objective quality. This forces the the beekeepers and honey packers to apply a certain dose of heat to the honey to retard its cristallisation. In other countries things are different. In France for example, the honey is sold with no heat treatment and the consumers buy it as it is. Jean-Pierre Chapleau eleveur de reines / queen breeder vice-president du Conseil canadien du miel / Vice-president of the Canadian Honey Council 1282, rang 8, Saint-Adrien de Ham, Quebec, Canada, J0A 1C0 tel./phone (819) 828-3396; fax (819) 828-0357 chapleau@praline.net ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 21 Sep 1995 21:29:19 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: JOHN IANNUZZI Subject: Re: Beekeeping equipment wanted > John Halstead - > > Your brother called me last night about the extractor and electric knife. > Thank you for pointing him in my direction. Please send me an e-mail so > that I can get in touch with you if I need to. Thank you! > > Laura Downey > (corvi29@aol.com) > Hi, 1. U don't have to buy an electric knife & extractor. 2. The Howard County Bkeepers Ass'n has one for use of its members and non-members. 3. Weekly rental is something like $5. 4. Perfect for new b-keeper with just a few hives. 5. Contact John Romanik, Beebeard King of Maryland, at 410/465-1809, Ellicott City. Bonne chance. Jack the B-man ************************************************************* John Iannuzzi PhD | There is some soul of goodness 9772 Old Annapolis Rd | in things evil... Thus we may Ellicott City (founded 1772) | gather honey from the weed. Maryland usa 21042 | --Shakespeare (Henry V) Hobbyist w/ 19 colonies | 21 Italian hives (20sep950700) too many. 410/730-5279 | 35 years a b-man ************************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 21 Sep 1995 21:33:11 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: JOHN IANNUZZI Subject: Re: September APIS > I am having problems getting posts from this list and did not get the > usual acknowledgement concerning the September issue of my APIS > newsletter. If it was not received by the list, I can repost it. Please > respond directly to me as my problems continue. > > Tom Sanford > +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ > Malcolm (Tom) Sanford Extension Apiculturist University of Florida > Mailing Address: Bldg 970, Hull Rd., Gainesville, FL 32611-0620 > Voice phone 904/392-1801, Ext. 143 > FAX 904/392-0190 > INTERNET:MTS@GNV.IFAS.UFL.EDU > ==================================================================== > Publisher of APIS -- http://gnv.ifas.ufl.edu/~entweb/apis/apis.htm > Instructor of Principles of Entomology, ENY 3005-- > http://gnv.ifas.ufl.edu/~mts/eny3005/eny3005syl.htm > +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ > Malcolm, Your Sept Apis WAS posted. Thanks. Never recall seeing any previous one posted. Jack the B-man ************************************************************* John Iannuzzi PhD | There is some soul of goodness 9772 Old Annapolis Rd | in things evil... Thus we may Ellicott City (founded 1772) | gather honey from the weed. Maryland usa 21042 | --Shakespeare (Henry V) Hobbyist w/ 19 colonies | 21 Italian hives (20sep950700) too many. 410/730-5279 | 35 years a b-man ************************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 22 Sep 1995 12:29:48 +0000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: ben ferneyhough Subject: Do you inject bees ? Comments: To: bee-l@cnsibm.albany.edu. Does anyone out there have any methods, advice, or even references for injecting into bees, or perfusing the brain region ? We are studying the learning and memory of bees, and would be extremely grateful for any help, Thankyou. B. Ferneyhough e-mail: bferneyhough@brookes.ac.uk. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 22 Sep 1995 12:10:16 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Marc Party Subject: Beekeeping equipment -un (de)capping? I have an electric knife/scraper that looks more like some type of cheese knife. It works fine for the first 3 frames, then becomes completely sticky and the wax/honey begin to burn, creating a carbon crust all over it. The crust is a great insulator, and the knife can never get quite hot enough to to a good job afterwards. What do BWE (beekeepers with experience) suggest I do? I have 5 hives, a small operation. I'm not willing to spend millions on new fancy equipment. Is there a better way to use the same knife, or are there better tools? Is a steam knife better? Marc Patry Near Ottawa, Ontario, where the trees are now exploding with wonderful fall colours like slow motion fireworks. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 22 Sep 1995 12:25:10 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Jeffrey P. Murray" Subject: Re: Beekeeping equipment -un (de)capping? In-Reply-To: <9509221610.AB22501@emr1.emr.ca> (message from Marc Party on Fri, 22 Sep 1995 12:10:16 EDT) >I have an electric knife/scraper that looks more like some type of cheese >knife. It works fine for the first 3 frames, then becomes completely sticky >and the wax/honey begin to burn, creating a carbon crust all over it. The >crust is a great insulator, and the knife can never get quite hot enough to >to a good job afterwards. What do BWE (beekeepers with experience) suggest >I do? I have 5 hives, a small operation. I'm not willing to spend millions >on new fancy equipment. Is there a better way to use the same knife, or are >there better tools? Is a steam knife better? > >Marc Patry >Near Ottawa, Ontario, where the trees are now exploding with wonderful fall >colours like slow motion fireworks. > I also have a very small operation (two hives), and have found that putting a large pot of hot water on an electric eye and keeping two or three large bread knives in it works well. After you've uncapped a couple of frames with one knife, return it to the hot water and proceed with one of the other ones. This always allows one or two knives to be hot while working with the other. Jeeef ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 22 Sep 1995 12:28:34 EDT Reply-To: "Glen B. Glater" Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Glen B. Glater" Subject: Re: Beekeeping equipment -un (de)capping? Marc: You said: >I have an electric knife/scraper that looks more like some type of cheese >knife. It works fine for the first 3 frames, then becomes completely sticky >and the wax/honey begin to burn, creating a carbon crust all over it. The >crust is a great insulator, and the knife can never get quite hot enough to >to a good job afterwards. What do BWE (beekeepers with experience) suggest >I do? I have 5 hives, a small operation. I'm not willing to spend millions >on new fancy equipment. Is there a better way to use the same knife, or are >there better tools? Is a steam knife better? Well, I know that other's experiences may vary, but I can say that I have had absolutely *terrible* experiences with electric knives. We tried one again last week at our extraction and it was, IMHO, worthless. What I prefer is to keep a pan of water hot and keep 2 decapping knives in the water. I use one for a while, and when it gets too cool, I put it back in the pan and use the other. While #2 cools, #1 warms back up again. It works *great* and I don't have to deal with the funky thermoregulation on the electric knife. I also don't have to worry about putting the knife down somewhere that I don't want hot knives to be (our honey house is also a real house, and we use the kitchen for the extraction... :-) We were extracting from 3 hives, so our "operation" is a bit smaller than yours, but it worked great. --glen ************************************************************** Midnight Networks Inc. * 200 Fifth Avenue * Waltham, MA 02154 Glen B. Glater Principal, Strategic Networking Group Phone: (617) 890-1001 Fax: (617) 890-0028 Internet: glen@midnight.com http://www.midnight.com/~glen ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 22 Sep 1995 13:30:47 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: David Clayton Subject: Honey labels Up to now I've labelled honey jars with homemade labels that provided a crude but rustic touch. However, I'm interested in a more polished label for my limited production and was wondering if anyone out there had leads on some label suppliers. Thanks for any assistance. =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- David Clayton; Academic Computing "On the larger scale of history, the U. of Rhode Island; Kingston, RI 02881 scythe is really only a few steps Internet: dclayton@uriacc.uri.edu away from the computer." -Living at the End of Time ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 22 Sep 1995 10:46:00 PDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Wendy Lewis Subject: Re: Honey labels Re: honey labels- If you subscribe to the _American Bee Journal_ there are loads of advertisements for labels throughout the journal. I have ordered labels from Glorybee with great results. Get yourself a subscription! It's fun reading AND educational, too (good and good for you). Wendy Lewis Mission Viejo CA 3 hives 2 small children 1 helpful husband ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 22 Sep 1995 16:27:52 -0400 Reply-To: "Frank J. Kovac" Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Frank J. Kovac" Subject: Re: Beekeeping equipment -un (de)capping? Comments: cc: epfl2.epflbalto.org.gr105@cleveland.freenet.edu I've used a cold bread/frozen food knife on ten hives. Just as fast as heated knife, less hassle, less degradation of honey. A huckster at the Great Frederick Fair sold it to me for a dollar promising eternal life and absolute satisfaction. I never saw him again but what he said was true. Reply to message from mpatry@EMR1.EMR.CA of Fri, 22 Sep > >I have an electric knife/scraper that looks more like some type of cheese >knife. It works fine for the first 3 frames, then becomes completely sticky >and the wax/honey begin to burn, creating a carbon crust all over it. The >crust is a great insulator, and the knife can never get quite hot enough to >to a good job afterwards. What do BWE (beekeepers with experience) suggest >I do? I have 5 hives, a small operation. I'm not willing to spend millions >on new fancy equipment. Is there a better way to use the same knife, or are >there better tools? Is a steam knife better? > >Marc Patry >Near Ottawa, Ontario, where the trees are now exploding with wonderful fall >colours like slow motion fireworks. > > -- ### Frank J. Kovac gr105@cleveland.freenet.edu ### 10901 Easterday Road N39 31'56" W77 34'40" ### Myersville MD 21773 KA3KNX KAF4716 MD-PE 8605 ### voice: (301) 293-1367 logo/mead/judging/REACT ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 22 Sep 1995 19:08:33 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "GARY M. DeBERRY" Subject: Re: Beekeeping Merit Badge I have just been in contact with the Pittsburgh, PA Boy Scout District Office and I was informed that as of Sept. 1995 the Beekeeping Merit badge was no longer being offered. This was as per a letter in the hand of the official in charge. I thought this was reversed for the time being! What has Happened? Also I examined the beekeeping merit badge book and it needs rewritten and brought up to 1995 standards. Who does this? Gary M. DeBerry AKA G D Beeman ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 22 Sep 1995 23:08:32 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "R. Edward Fickel" Subject: Re: Beekeeping Merit Badge In-Reply-To: <01HVL5MRU5CIA9NA9W@vms.cis.pitt.edu> from "GARY M. DeBERRY" at Sep 22, 95 07:08:33 pm > > I have just been in contact with the Pittsburgh, PA Boy Scout District Office > and I was informed that as of Sept. 1995 the Beekeeping Merit badge was no > longer being offered. This was as per a letter in the hand of the official > in charge. I thought this was reversed for the time being! What has Happened? > Also I examined the beekeeping merit badge book and it needs rewritten and > brought up to 1995 standards. Who does this? > > Gary M. DeBerry > AKA G D Beeman Gary, As a subscriber to both bee-l and scouts-l, your post interested me greatly. This is one merit badge that was recently retired (along with about seven others). I was sad to see this badge go and am interested in your reference to a reversal. Can you shed any light on this??? As a biologist and a scout leader, I certainly would like to see the beekeeping merit badge reworked and re-established. Thanks for listening. -- The trouble with Boy Scouts is ... Ed Fickel there ain't enough of 'em. ASM Troop 236 Logan, OH 43138 Hocking District Will Rogers Simon Kenton Council Katinonkwat #93 aa639@seorf.OhioU.edu lh_RFickel@seovec.oecn.Ohio.gov ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 22 Sep 1995 22:21:45 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Mat Werner Subject: Bee Photographs needed Hello, I am writing an article about bees for submission to an agricultural magazine. I am looking for several publication-quality photographs of honey bees. Color transparencies are preferred. Useful shots would include close-ups, bees foraging on flowers, especially of apple, pear, crimson clover, or strawberry, and bees leaving the hive, especially a hive with a pollen insert. If anyone knows of any bee photographers out there, please have them respond directly to me at: werner@zzyx.ucsc.edu or by telephone at 408/427-3153. Thanks, and best wishes to all you bee enthusiasts. Matt Werner Santa Cruz, CA ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 23 Sep 1995 02:52:11 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Marion D. Ellis" Subject: Re: September APIS >I am having problems getting posts from this list and did not get the >usual acknowledgement concerning the September issue of my APIS >newsletter. If it was not received by the list, I can repost it. Please >respond directly to me as my problems continue. > Reply: I received September Apis direct but not via bee-l. Marion Ellis, mellis@unlinfo.unl.edu ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 23 Sep 1995 08:10:57 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: JOHN IANNUZZI Subject: Re: Bee Photographs needed Comments: cc: JR0002@epfl2.epflbalto.org > Hello, > > I am writing an article about bees for submission to an agricultural > magazine. I am looking for several publication-quality photographs > of honey bees. Color transparencies are preferred. Useful shots > would include close-ups, bees foraging on flowers, especially of apple, pear, > crimson clover, or strawberry, and bees leaving the hive, especially > a hive with a pollen insert. > > If anyone knows of any bee photographers out there, please have them > respond directly to me at: > > werner@zzyx.ucsc.edu > > or by telephone at 408/427-3153. > > Thanks, and best wishes to all you bee enthusiasts. > > Matt Werner > Santa Cruz, CA > U MIGHT TRY STEVE MCDANIEL/4964 WENTZ RD MANCHESTER MD 21102-- 410/239-7496 WHO HAS BEES, IS A PROFESSIONAL PHOTOGRAPHER AND IS MY FRIEND WHOSE PIX HAVE APPEARED ON THE COVER OF ABJ AND POSSIBLY GBC. BONNE CHANCE. Jack the B-man ************************************************************* John Iannuzzi PhD | There is some soul of goodness 9772 Old Annapolis Rd | in things evil... Thus we may Ellicott City (founded 1772) | gather honey from the weed. Maryland usa 21042 | --Shakespeare (Henry V) Hobbyist w/ 19 colonies | 21 Italian hives (20sep950700) too many. 410/730-5279 | 35 years a b-man ************************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 23 Sep 1995 11:32:26 +22299804 Reply-To: adamf@sunsite.unc.edu Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Adam Finkelstein Subject: Beekeeping FAQ (bee-l, sci.agriculture.beekeeping, net resources) Hello, If you would like to get the latest copy of the beekeeping FAQ, pointing toward internet beekeeping resources, here's what you do: * WWW URL: ftp://rtfm.mit.edu/pub/usenet/news.answers/beekeeping-faq * WWW URL: http://www.cis.ohio-state.edu:80/hypertext/faq/usenet/beekeeping-faq/faq.html * FTP: FTP rtfm.mit.edu log on anonymous, then cd to /pub/usenet/news.answers/beekeeping-faq can also FTP to: ftp.uu.net /usenet/news.answers/beekeeping-faq If you can't use FTP, you may email for the faq. Here's how: * email: mail-server@rtfm.mit.edu no subject in body of letter put: send usenet/news.answers/beekeeping-faq * Usenet The beekeeping faq is posted every month to: news.answers, sci.answers, misc.answers, alt.answers, rec.answers as well as sci.agriculture.beekeeping, misc.rural, alt.sustainable.agriculture, and rec.gardens. As a last resort, you may mail me and I'll send you the latest version, but I might take longer than the above sources.... As always, please send suggestions, comments, criticisms, and I'll do what I can. Wishing you the best in the beekeeping world, Adam ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 23 Sep 1995 19:05:10 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: David Morris Subject: Re: Beekeeping Merit Badge In a recent posting, Gary M. DeBerry writes: >I have just been in contact with the Pittsburgh, PA Boy Scout District Office >and I was informed that as of Sept. 1995 the Beekeeping Merit badge was no >longer being offered. This was as per a letter in the hand of the official >in charge. I thought this was reversed for the time being! What has Happened? >Also I examined the beekeeping merit badge book and it needs rewritten and >brought up to 1995 standards. Who does this? To bring folks up-to-date regarding the beekeeping merit badge: The Advancement Committee will reconsider their decision to cancel the merit badge at their meeting in early October. They need to hear how valuable the merit badge is to Scouts and what you will do to increase the numbers of earned merit badges. Contact scouts and scout leaders who have been involved with the merit badge and let them explain its value to scouts. Write or Fax a letter to: Mr. John Dalrymple, Director, Advancement/NESA PO Box 152079 Irving TX 75015-2079 Tel: 214-580-2000 FAX 214-580-2502 The Beekeeping merit badge handbook has an address in the front or back that gives the address of who to contact for corrections, etc. When we get the merit badge reinstated, (note the optimism) I plan to contact the BSA about updating the book. Additional material is needed on parasitic mites and africanized honey bees. What additions do others think are needed? Regards, David Morris, President Maryland State Beekeepers Assn. We need to increase the merit badges earned by about 300 per year. That is only SIX PER STATE! Surely we can manage that. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 24 Sep 1995 14:50:43 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Steve Genta Subject: Re: Bee Photographs needed The Carl Hayden Bee Research Lab in Tucson has a very good gallery of bee photos. Their URL is HTTP://198.22.133.1091. It is an excellent source of information. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 24 Sep 1995 23:19:49 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Edward Sterling Subject: Re: Beekeeping equipment -un (de)capping? Re: mainly bad comments about electric knives.... As for myself, I have the "cheese knife" electric decapping "planer" and I think it is WONDERFUL!!! Compared to the conventional electric broad-blade knife, I find the planer-type decapping much more effective. The "drag and scoop" method is very effective, easy to control, and seems to minimize damage to the combs. I wonder if Mark in Ottawa had a planer that was set for too high a temperature? The other possibility is technique? There is certainly no time to dawdle once that baby gets cooking. It's essential to get the decapped wax and honey into a collection bucket right away. I find the planer is well designed to scoop up the wax and a bit of honey, hold it momentarily in the "scoop", and then it melts the wax and warms the honey so that it all slides off quickly into a collection bucket. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ed Sterling, GPCC | ACTUAL quotes from my kids: "Daddy, hummingbirds Bolton, MA 01740 USA | help the bees put honey in the flowers!" "In the Phone/FAX: 508-779-6058 | daytime, the sun melts the moon into cloudpieces!" "ed@gpcc.ultranet.com" | "A snowman makes the quietest sounds in the world" ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Wish you had a favorite childhood toy from the 1950s/60s/70s back again? Barbie? GI Joe? Fanner 50? Girder and Panel? See http://www.ultranet.com/~ed ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 25 Sep 1995 08:52:35 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Aaron Morris Subject: Decapping equipment I have to agree with Ed, that a decapping plane is FAR SUPERIOR to the decapping knife. I used a knife for three or four years with much dissatisfaction. Then I tried a decapping plane. What a difference! I'll never touch a decapping knife again! As far as hand-held decapping equipment goes, the decapping plane is tops in my book! Interestingly enough, the dcp (decapping plane) is marketed in Canada, where the decapping question originated. I don't have the address of a supplier, but see the dcp regularly advertised in American Bee Journal for about $60 (give or take, not sure if that's Canadian or US). Aaron Morris - I think, therefore I bee! ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 25 Sep 1995 12:03:58 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: JOHN IANNUZZI Subject: ElectricKnife Comments: To: uacsc2@albany.edu Have been using an electric knife for decapping for the past 20? years. It is attached to a SEPARATE thermostat w/ a range of settings from Low to High. Am very happy w/ this Pierce product that also has a built-in thermostat w/ an adjustable screw which I've never touched. Have never used a decapping plane but doesn't its narrow width make the job much longer, requiring multiple sweeps, unlike the DK? Thanks for replies in advance. Jack the B-man ************************************************************* John Iannuzzi PhD | There is some soul of goodness 9772 Old Annapolis Rd | in things evil... Thus we may Ellicott City (founded 1772) | gather honey from the weed. Maryland usa 21042 | --Shakespeare (Henry V) Hobbyist w/ 19 colonies | 21 Italian hives (20sep950700) too many. 410/730-5279 | 35 years a b-man ************************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 25 Sep 1995 14:51:29 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Timothy S. Sterrett" Subject: electric knife Marc Patry, Assuming that what you are using is, in fact, an electric uncapping knife: I use and like an electric uncapping knife in a small operation. I made a foot switch for the knife so that it only is heated when a foot is on the switch. When the knife is not uncapping, it is not being heated. The knife stays clean. The switch is a push/on release/off, square-button, Radio Shack switch mounted in a hole drilled in the side of an electrical outlet box. The outlet box is mounted at the end of a board. A foot placed on the box activates the switch. Beside the outlet box is a wooden block foot rest, also fastened to the board, so that a foot placed on the foot rest also rests on the outlet box and switch. The outlet box also has an outlet in it; the knife plugs into the outlet box in a direction parallel to the floor. A three-wire, grounded, power cord from a discarded refrigerator/washing machine kind of appliance powers the outlet box. Be sure to ground the outlet and the outlet box. Tim Sterrett Westtown, Pennsylvania, USA tss@locke.ccil.org ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 25 Sep 1995 16:59:00 CST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Matt Ter Molen Subject: Re: ElectricKnife I have been using the same Pierce knife and love it. I wouldn't go back to the old unheated knives. There were too many problems with the other knives. Matt Ter Molen. Evanston, IL. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 25 Sep 1995 22:45:29 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Richard Holub Subject: electric knife Marc Patry, Assuming that what you are using is, in fact, an electric uncapping knife: I use and like an electric uncapping knife in a small operation. I made a foot switch for the knife so that it only is heated when a foot is on the switch. When the knife is not uncapping, it is not being heated. The knife stays clean. Tim Sterrett Westtown, Pennsylvania, USA tss@locke.ccil.org Tim, Why go through all that? Why don't you just let the knife stay on continuously? The amount of electricity saved does not seem to make up for the time and materials it takes to make the foot switch. You need the heat on the blade to keep melting the wax. After every pass through the comb, heat is lost while melting the wax. The heating element takes a while to heat the blade hot enough to continue melting. My knife stays clean also. Rich Holub Worcester, Massachusetts, USA gaucho@iii.net ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 26 Sep 1995 08:48:55 +0000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: ben ferneyhough Subject: Anyone carry out P.E.R. ? Comments: To: bee-l@cnsibm.albany.edu. Does anyone out there carry out experiments using the proboscis extension reflex in honeybees ? If so could you please e-mail me. Ben bferneyhough@brookes.ac.uk. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 26 Sep 1995 07:30:50 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Michael Stoops Subject: Re: AFB Get some "LAURIC ACID" In-Reply-To: <9509151351.AA51554@cuugnet.cuug.ab.ca> In reference to the discovery of minute amounts of sulfer in the honey. Hope those people don't eat eggs. Anybody ever investigate the amount of sulfer in the yolk of an egg? Surely does turn silver black in a hurry. Sometimes makes you wonder about the drug approval system. On Fri, 15 Sep 1995, Allen Dick wrote: > Thanks to Andy for another excellent post. > > > For sure it is not approved for use in the USA. It could be illegal > > to sell any product for use in or on a beehive or on bee's that is > > not approved. It could also be illegal for a beekeeper to use a > > product that is not approved. > > > > The problem is and continues to be getting any product, no matter > > how safe, or how much research, or how long it has been in use by > > beekeepers, approved. > > > > Make's one wonder about the future of any golden bullet does it > > not..!! Worse it make's me wonder about the product's that are > > approved as they are not necessarily the best, only the one's that > > had the money to use the system to get approval. And for sure limits > > the choice that we can make and that choice is not necessarily made > > on the best research, only who has the most money. > > > We lost the best treatment for AFB years back, because it was never > put through the approval process in the years when approval was > easier. Actually, I don't know why it wasn't grandfathered. > > Sulfa was an excellent controll because of its persistence. The > problems started when the practice came under scrutiny a decade or > so back. With the advent of techniques to find minute amounts of > contaminants, it was found in some honey in reatios of 1 part per > million or so and resulted in a lot of good honey being dumped or > used for feed. > > I don't know if there is any real danger to anyone in having levels > of that order. Some people have kidney problems when exposed to > some level of sulfa drugs (I don't know much about this) and there > is the hazard of having resistance to sulfa develop when it occurs > widely, however, as far as I know, the hog people still use it as > liberally as salt. > > Comments welcome. > > > The approved chemical treatment for the prevention of AFB and EFB is > > TM, use it, it works and it is cheeper then any other approved or > > not approved chemical or drug that you could use. It also benefits > > healthy hives with increased brood rearing if used as proscribed on > > the label. > > > Amen > > Regards > > Allen > > W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper VE6CFK > Rural Route One, Swalwell, Alberta Canada T0M 1Y0 > Honey. Bees, Art, & Futures > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 26 Sep 1995 10:17:00 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Kerry Clark 784-2225 fax (604) 784 2299" Subject: Re: Decapping equipment For beekeepers with up to 10 supers, I'd recommend trying an uncapping fork, instead of any of the knives or planes. Get one of the metal forks with tines with an offset or double jog half way along. Mine has a wooden handle. I find it works better than the plastic ones with straight tines (capping scratchers). Cappings are removed by sliding the tines into the airspace under capped cells. Ideally, the wax comes off nearly without honey. No electric power required, no heat. It may not be quite as fast as a heated knife in experienced hands, but the cleanup is quicker. With some practice, it might keep up with a knife. Kerry Clark, Apiculture Specialist B.C. Ministry of Agriculture 1201 103 Ave Dawson Creek B.C. V1G 4J2 CANADA Tel (604) 784-2225 fax (604) 784-2299 INTERNET KCLARK@GALAXY.GOV.BC.CA ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 26 Sep 1995 20:00:06 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Timothy S. Sterrett" Subject: electric uncapping knives Mark Holub, Why not let the electric uncapping knife stay on continuously? Unless the knife is continuously in use, it seems to get pretty hot. If someone is uncapping into a two-frame extractor, the knife is idle a fair per cent of the time. If I step onto the switch as I pick a frame out of the super, the knife is warming up when I begin to uncap. A second reason for putting a switch on the knife is that my extracting set-up is used by others to extract their honey, and we invite students to help us extract our own crop. Many hands use the knife. Again, I don't want a knife left on and idle. (A third reason is that I enjoy the challenge of tinkering a switch together.) Newer electric uncapping knives do not, I think, have an adjustable thermostat built into them. Tim Sterrett Westtown, Pennsylvania, USA tss@locke.ccil.org ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 26 Sep 1995 20:29:43 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "William Nelson@Aol.Com" Subject: Re: Sulfa Drugs for AFB Being highly allergic to sulfa drugs i don't know if i would want any residue in honey that was from a hive treated with the drug. I don't know what my reactive level is nor do I know if repeat exposure would further sensitize me. As far as hog farmers using Sulfa liberally, that was a past practice and now more and more are not using it. I read one study where the drug persists in the ground and water around hog farms for twenty years or more. Seems to be a pretty stable drug compound. It is very effective against AFB and EFB as both bacteria are highly affected by it. I don't know if these disease organisms have strains that are resistant to the drug but if they do eventually those would be selected out if the drugs were misused and then we would have another resistant bug. We sure don't need that. It is true howvever that the U.S. drug approval system is for thems thats got the bucks, read that will make their money back in sales and patent protection after the research is done. There are no orphan drug programs to my knowledge for animal drug developement in the U.S. like their are for human drugs. Its hard to be members of a small industry. So much for my soapbox today Bill Nelson North Liberty, IN. U.S.A. four hives at this time. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 26 Sep 1995 18:58:14 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jim Osborn Subject: Re: Sulfa isn't Sulphur Michael Stoops writes: >In reference to the discovery of minute amounts of sulfer in the honey. >Hope those people don't eat eggs... > >On Fri, 15 Sep 1995, Allen Dick wrote: >> We lost the best treatment for AFB years back... >> >> Sulfa was an excellent control because of its persistence. Michael is confusing sulfa the drug with sulphur the compound. They're not the same. jimo@eskimo.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 26 Sep 1995 22:14:15 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Greg Holley Subject: races of bees I am a first year beekeeper in Virginia with 2 hives of Italians. I would like to hear pros and cons from others about different races, hybrids, types, etc. Also, how many people feed Fumidil in the fall and do you see the results in the spring? ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 27 Sep 1995 11:15:41 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: JOHN IANNUZZI Subject: HoneyLabels Subject: Honey Labels 1. Best deal I've seen anywhere. 2. 30 color labels, all sizes, seven of them self-stick, w/ special glue for cellophane and plastic containers. 3. Walter T Kelley Co POB 240 Clarkson KY 42726 800/233-2899 4. Will even print your name, etc. at very reasonable prices. 5. Send for free catalog. Over 40K mailed annually. Also request free honey label brochure (4pp). Bonne chance. Jack the B-man sent via Ascii floppy ************************************************************* John Iannuzzi PhD | There is some soul of goodness 9772 Old Annapolis Rd | in things evil... Thus bees do Ellicott City (founded 1772) | gather honey from the weed. Maryland usa 21042 | --Apologies to the BardofAvon Hobbyist w/ 19 colonies2many | 21 Italian hives (25sep951945) ji0079@epfl2.epflbalto.org | 35 years a b-man ************************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 27 Sep 1995 11:20:22 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Maynard R. Thompson" Subject: Beekeeping/Intensive Grazing. Does anyone know of research that has or is being done with the integration of managed colonies of bees in the intensive grazing plan for livestock. I and a freind have placed some hives on some property which is managed in this way. The feild mix consists of cool/warm weather grasses as well as white dutch clover, red clover, alfalfa, ladino etc. Obviously the pollination is improved. The farmer wanted to know of the significance of reseeding of forage plants, especially since there appear to be fewer and fewer feral colonies. He likes to experiment with these things and wondered if there is any information available. Thanks to any and all, Maynard. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 28 Sep 1995 21:32:55 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Steve Genta Subject: Master Beekeeping Program We here in the state of South Carolina are considering creating a Master Beekeeping program. We are in search of anybody with information or suggestions to make our program a success. We have some terrific material from the state of North Carolina, but we would like to know how the rest of the world is doing it. Thanks in advance. Steve Genta - President - Piedmont Beekeepers Association - Greenville, SC POLLENDOLL@aol.com or ENPF61A@prodigy.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Sep 1995 13:44:55 +1000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Julian O'Dea A copy of something I posted to the Social Insect and Ethology (animal behavior) lists and to Dr Casey at Brandeis University. Do any practising beekeepers have any thoughts and information on this question? To Dr Casey: " This is a long shot but you seem like someone who might be interested in the following. A few years ago Chauvin, the French student of social insects, suggested that bees leave the hive in what he called "cadres". I did some timing of bees leaving a hive to see if they left at random, or in "clumps" of bees leaving together, but without a clear answer (my set-up was rather primitive). Of course, a random pattern of leaving could to the casual observer look like bees leaving in groups, just by chance. More recently I wondered if the timing of bees leaving might not exhibit some sort of chaos behaviour, that is maybe it is "a bit" random and "a bit" ordered? Anyway, does anybody have an opinion or knowledge on the question of the randomness or otherwise of bees' leaving the hive? Perhaps someone might be interested in making some observations. The reason I am responding to you, Dr Casey , is that you seem to be interested in biological systems as complex systems. It has always seemed to me that the "leaving behaviour" of bees over time would repay study from the angle of chaos theory and complex systems research." Dr Julian O'Dea Canberra Australia jodea@mailhost.dpie.gov.au ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Sep 1995 07:44:30 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: JOHN IANNUZZI Subject: Re: Master Beekeeping Program > We here in the state of South Carolina are considering creating a Master > Beekeeping program. We are in search of anybody with information or > suggestions to make our program a success. We have some terrific material > from the state of North Carolina, but we would like to know how the rest of > the world is doing it. Thanks in advance. Steve Genta - President - > Piedmont Beekeepers Association - Greenville, SC > POLLENDOLL@aol.com or ENPF61A@prodigy.com > NC STATE SEEMS TO HAVE THE PREMIER PROGRAM THRU JOHN AMBROSE. HAVE NEVER HEARD OF ANY OTHER EXCEPT CLARENCE COLLISON'S ( MISSISSIPI (SP?) STATE) OPERATING THRU THE EASTERN APICULTURAL SOCIETY IMPLICATING AMBROSE. BONNE CHANCE! ************************************************************* John Iannuzzi PhD | There is some soul of goodness 9772 Old Annapolis Rd | in things evil... Thus bees do Ellicott City (founded 1772) | gather honey from the weed. Maryland usa 21042 | --Apologies to the BardofAvon Hobbyist w/ 19 colonies2many | 21 Italian hives (25sep951945) ji0079@epfl2.epflbalto.org | 35 years a b-man ************************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Sep 1995 07:58:30 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: BusyKnight Subject: Re: Master Beekeeping Program >We here in the state of South Carolina are considering creating a Master >Beekeeping program. As bad as I'd like to see such a certification in/for Texas, I'd have to say that Hell would freeze over (soild) first ! .....and they ain't predictin' even so much as a frost there yet. Busyknight <------ drives like a "bat outta hell"....so I know! };^) ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Sep 1995 10:39:45 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "James E. Hoyt" Subject: Re: Master Beekeeping Program In-Reply-To: <950928213250_69295993@emout06.mail.aol.com> This sounds excellent. Would you post, or provide in an FTP-site the results of your work? Thanks Much! Jim On Thu, 28 Sep 1995, Steve Genta wrote: > We here in the state of South Carolina are considering creating a Master > Beekeeping program. We are in search of anybody with information or > suggestions to make our program a success. We have some terrific material > from the state of North Carolina, but we would like to know how the rest of > the world is doing it. Thanks in advance. Steve Genta - President - > Piedmont Beekeepers Association - Greenville, SC > POLLENDOLL@aol.com or ENPF61A@prodigy.com > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Sep 1995 09:38:57 -0700 Reply-To: uc779@freenet.victoria.bc.ca Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Conrad A. Berube" Subject: Re: BEE-L Digest - 27 Sep 1995 to 28 Sep 1995 Comments: To: jodea@mailhost.dpie.gov.au >Anyway, does anybody have an opinion or knowledge on the question of the >randomness or otherwise of bees' leaving the hive? Perhaps someone might >be interested in making some observations. I've noticed a similar phenomenon with yellowjackets that I've been collecting as they _return_ to the nest (when I start collecting the "cadres" _leaving_ the nest seem to correlate highly with my thumping on on the nest envelope ;-). Anyway, even before disturbing the nest it seems that foragers returning to the nest do so in small groups (the vacuum unit will be drawing air only and then "thwip, thwip, thwip" a number of yellowjackets will fly into the nozzle on their way home. If the observation is legitimate and not merely an artifact of my only _noticing_ the clumps then I would guess that it is a result of orientation behaviour-- either the rearguard of a cadre are following a more experienced forager (or one genetically better able to orient to the nest opening) or, alternatively, pheromonal cues become intermittently more acute as wind or air movement from within the nest increase the signal amplitude of the chemical message. If you would like to look at this scientifically perhaps we can come up with a protocol-- seems like tallying the number of entries or exits per unit time would be a fairly simple procedure. - Conrad Berube " ` ISLAND CROP MANAGEMENT " ` 1326 Franklin Terrace _- -_`-_|'\ /` Victoria, B.C. _/ / / -' `~()() V8S 1C7 \_\ _ /\-._/\/ (604)480-0223; fax (604)656-8922 / | | email: uc779@freenet.victoria.bc.ca '` ^ ^ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Sep 1995 11:28:42 -0600 Reply-To: dicka@cuug.ab.ca Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Allen Dick Organization: The Beekeepers Subject: Re: BEE-L Digest - 27 Sep 1995 to 28 Sep 1995 > >Anyway, does anybody have an opinion or knowledge on the question > >of the randomness or otherwise of bees' leaving the hive? Perhaps > >someone might be interested in making some observations. > > I've noticed a similar phenomenon with yellowjackets that I've been > collecting as they _return_ to the nest (when I start collecting the > "cadres" _leaving_ the nest seem to correlate highly with my > thumping on on the nest envelope ;-). An explantation of this phenomenon - which also occurs noticeably in honeybees - is that the bees are riding or bucking a breeze as they return and when there is a lull, they are able to descend and come in more easily, so it seems a group has arrived. This is not to discount other reasons. Regards Allen W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper VE6CFK Rural Route One, Swalwell, Alberta Canada T0M 1Y0 Honey. Bees, Art, & Futures ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Sep 1995 12:37:21 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Whitney S. Cranshaw" Subject: Active ingredient of "Mite Solution" Our state Beekeepers newsletter just republished a promotional bit of material on a product known as "Mite Solution". It purportedly controls all mite problems ("is a miracle treatment for both tracheal and varroa mite") that they say is also registered with the EPA. (Apparently this was reprinted from The Honey Producer Magazine.) I presume that this is another "snake oil" product but I am interested to know what the active ingredient is supposed to be. Any clues? Whitney Cranshaw Department of Entomology Colorado State University Ft. Collins, CO 80523 wcransha@ceres.agsci.colostate.edu ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Sep 1995 15:02:22 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Derk Phelps Subject: Bee (Truck) Netting Hello, Does anyone out there have any good tips as to where I might be able to get info on Netting for trucks hauling bees? I checked this monthe "Culture", I have seen adds there before, but none were listed. Any help is greatly appreciated. Please E-Mail me directly. Derk Phelps Phelps Honey Farm dpbees@aol.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Sep 1995 15:03:21 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Derk Phelps Subject: Processing Equiptment Hi, I need to dispose of a Kelly 33 frame radial and uncapping setup for a cowen uncapper. Please E-Mail me directly for more info. We are located in Northeren Utah. Thanks Derk Phelps Phelps Honey Farm dpbees@aol.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Sep 1995 18:00:30 +0000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Keith Hooker Organization: Technology Management Ltd Subject: Re: Master Beekeeping Program Here in the UK we have a number of Beekeeping qualifications that anyone can attempt ie the Preliminary, the Intermediate and the Senior plus the National Diploma in Beekeeping. The holder of a Senior beekeeping certificate is stated as being a Master Beekeeper. To get this level of qualification you have to pass both theory and practical examinations. The British Beekeepers Association administers these and publishes a syllabus etc. The National Diploma in Beekeeping is administered by a separate NDB board. Does this help? If a syllabus is in existence I suggest that you give it a long hard look. Keith Past President Canterbury Beekeepers Association! >>> Keith JM Hooker <<< >>> Technology Management Ltd <<< >>> WHITSTABLE Kent CT5 4ED UK <<< ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Sep 1995 14:56:34 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: BusyKnight Subject: Re: Bee (Truck) Netting >Hello, >Does anyone out there have any good tips as to where I might be able to get >info on Netting for trucks hauling bees? Just drive 18 kph .....they'll keep up! ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Sep 1995 17:32:46 -0600 Reply-To: dicka@cuug.ab.ca Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Allen Dick Organization: The Beekeepers Subject: Re: Bee (Truck) Netting > >Hello, > >Does anyone out there have any good tips as to where I might be > >able to get info on Netting for trucks hauling bees? Check the ABJ and Bee Culture. They used to have two ads for nets. Additionally, there is a trucking outfit in North Dakota as I recall that hauls a lot of bees and sells nets. Regards Allen W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper VE6CFK Rural Route One, Swalwell, Alberta Canada T0M 1Y0 Honey. Bees, Art, & Futures ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 30 Sep 1995 10:00:11 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Steve Genta Subject: Re: Master Beekeeping Program Thanks for your input. We would be very interested in all the information that is at your disposal. Thanks for the reply. Steve Genta ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 30 Sep 1995 07:22:06 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Paul Cronshaw DC Subject: Merit Badge Update One of the things I like about a discussion group is the sharing of information. There was a posting on the Bee-list with regards to the BSA's decision to discontinue the Beekeeping Merit Badge. Here is a letter a sent to the BSA National Office and their reply. I am sharing this letter in hopes that other beekeepers might give their input on this matter. Paul Cronshaw DC Hobby Beekeeper ****************************** September 24, 1995 Mr. John Dalrymple, Director, Advancement/NESA P.O. Box 152079 Irving, TX 75015-2079 Re: Beekeeping Merit Badge Dear Mr. Dalrymple, I have been informed through the Internet Beekeeping Discussion group that the Beekeeping Merit Badge is no longer being offered. This is a shame!! As an Explorer Nature Director in a local scout camp many years ago, I helped a number of scouts with their merit badges, including beekeeping, as they moved up the ranks to become Eagle scouts. Recently, I have been giving mini-beekeeping demonstrations in several pre-K and elementary classes. I am amazed at the interest of the students and have received good feedback from many parents about beekeeping. There are many beekeepers around the US, such as myself, who would be more than happy to offer their services in helping scouts learn more about bees and their role in helping this planet. I am in the process of contacting my local BSA district office to let them know that I am available to help scouts with a beekeeping merit badge. I understand that the Advancement Committee will be meeting in early October. I encourage your group to discuss this matter further. I hope that the group decides to maintain the beekeeping merit badge for all future scouts to earn as part of their merit badge requirements. If you should have questions or need additional input to help you make a decision, please do not hesitate to contact me at my office. Sincerely, Paul Cronshaw DC ************************ BOY SCOUTS OF A MERICA National Office 1325 West Walnut Hill Lane P.O. Box 152079, Irving, Texas 75015-2079 21 4-580-2000 September 25,1995 Paul Cronshaw and Family 612 Tabor Lane Santa Barbara, CA 93108 Dear Mr. Cronshaw and Family: Thank you for your letter regarding the Beekeeping merit badge. We have received many calls and letters since the announcement was made that Beekeeping would be discontinued effective September 1, 1995. As a result of these calls and letters, we will ask the Boy Scout Advancement Committee to reexamine their decision. Please keep in mind that Scouts that started working on Beekeeping prior to September 1, 1995 may continue working on the merit badge; and have until their 1 8th birthday to complete the badge. (National Supply may run out of merit badges, but the Scout would receive credit as having earned Beekeeping.) Your letter is very much appreciated. Sincerely, John P. Dalrymple Director, Advancement/NESA . JPD/rg cc: Alan R. Hutchison, SE, Los Padres Council, No. 53 Rees Falkner Program, S207 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 30 Sep 1995 09:52:29 -0700 Reply-To: uc779@freenet.victoria.bc.ca Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Conrad A. Berube" Subject: social hymenopteran foraging behavior Comments: cc: boulder@whidbey.com, jjbmail@selway.umt.edu >Until the bees can be tracked so that AT LEAST the group leaving >is established as identical with the group returning I didn't think that anything in my posting indicated that the groups _were_ the same coming and going-- I thought the place to start would be in determining whether foragers actually do leave and/or return in groups (which I suspected that they did-- and which a posting I received from Jerry Bromenshank confirms with his own observations and the results of "research published in Apidologie using BeeScan, a Belgium produced, 32 channel bee counter, (which) documented the same observation, bees come in waves")-- regardless of whether they return in the _same_ group (which I suspect they don't). >...speculation as to WHY they do(what we do not know WHETHER they do)...is >premature. Whether they do seems to have been established in the affirmative-- although I haven't seen the article myself. _Now_ it would be interesting to see if they _are_ the same groups coming and going (again, I doubt it). If they are the same groups that would indicate one set of answers to "why?"-- if they are not that would imply a different answer. And you kind of have to speculate as to WHY before you can do this kind of research so you can come up with a hypothesis that you try to falsify (if you _don't_ falsify it that is an indication that your guess as to why _may_ be correct). My own intuitive, "educated" guess, as I mentioned before, is that it has something to do with the behavioral thresholds for orientation to the nest entrance (when a group returns-- which, of course, can include the influence of breezes as Allen Dick mentioned) or in the proximal stimulation to initiate foraging (when a group leaves). At the moment I can't think of anyway to test this. (It would be nice to "see" how the pheromone plume issuing from a colony fluctuates-- which I imagine has a lot to do with the comings and goings but that issue is so complex and so different from the sensory world that we humans live in that I can't think of anyway reasonable way of doing anything other than measuring the brute air flow in and out of colony.) Any ideas? '\ /` ()() \/\ Conrad Berube ____ /`\ \\ ISLAND CROP MANAGEMENT / ; ; /` `\/'\\ _____________ 1326 Franklin Terrace ` /` `' \`-===========/~~\ Victoria, B.C. V8S 1C7 \ \ -^\ /\____/^^^~> (604)480-0223; fax: (604)656-8922 |/ '\ '\~~~~~~~~ email: uc779@freenet.victoria.bc.ca '\ '\ \__\__ `` `` ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 30 Sep 1995 07:03:37 -1000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Kevin Roddy Subject: Drumming In-Reply-To: <950928213250_69295993@emout06.mail.aol.com> Many bee books mention drumming as a way of "enticing" or "gently nudging" bees to move upward and clearing a honey super or a brood box. Some bee books mention that drumming is the preferred way of parting bees from their brood and pollen stores. A few weeks ago, I wrote to report that I've taken over management of a "primitive" hive in a box whose brood area is "natural," i.e., no moveable frames of broodcomb. I took the first step in removing the boxes above the brood area and replaced them with Langstroth type supers. Possessing a hive without moveable frames is illegal in many states, and I'm hoping that you all won't turn me in :> but eventually I would like to convert the lower quarters into moveable frames . I *hate* parting bees from pollen and brood just to conform to state laws, especially froma hive that has been around as long as this one has, and other ways of trying to remove bees from brood frames (lots of smoke, shaking the frames) tend to get the bees agitated. Who on the list has had experience with drumming, and how successful has it been for you as a management practice? thanks kevin kroddy@hawaii.edu ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 30 Sep 1995 10:36:02 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jim Osborn Subject: Re: Drumming Kevin Roddy writes: >A few weeks ago, I wrote to report that I've taken over management of a >"primitive" hive in a box whose brood area is "natural," i.e., no moveable >frames of broodcomb. I took the first step in removing the boxes above >the brood area and replaced them with Langstroth type supers. > >Possessing a hive without moveable frames is illegal in many states, and >I'm hoping that you all won't turn me in :> but eventually I would like to >convert the lower quarters into moveable frames . I *hate* parting bees >from pollen and brood just to conform to state laws, especially from a hive >that has been around as long as this one has, and other ways of trying to >remove bees from brood frames (lots of smoke, shaking the frames) tend to >get the bees agitated. Why remove the bees from their natural comb? I know people that have successfully cut natural comb from its moorings and fit the slabs into empty frames, lashing it temporarily to hold it until the bees glue the comb to the frame. They probably appreciate it if you maintain the comb's orientation, so the slight upward tilt of the cells is preserved. Illegal to own a skep? I'd love to hear the rationale behind that one! jimo@eskimo.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 30 Sep 1995 21:11:39 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Timothy S. Sterrett" Subject: marking queens How is a queen bee supposed to be held in the hand to be marked with a dab of paint? I have picked queen bees up to clip their wings. First, I picked them off the comb by their wings and then held them in the other hand with thumb and forefinger above and below the thorax while I clipped one side. Today, I picked up a queen bee to paint it and realized that the grip for clipping won't work for painting. I ended up holding the queens by putting thumb and forefinger on the sides of the thorax and part of the abdomen, too. Can they be painted while being held by the wings? Further, the first of two queens I marked scooted to a crevice between frame and comb and appeared to be trying to reach the fresh dab of White Out on her thorax with one of her legs. The second queen did not act as though she were upset by the paint. I was clipping queens because, in the Spring of '95, we had no feral bees in our area and swarms had a wide choice of homes. I wanted a chance to catch the swarms before they left for a new home. Tim Sterrett, Westtown, Pennsylvania, USA tss@locke.ccil.org ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 30 Sep 1995 22:02:51 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Liz Day Subject: purpose of Melilotus Just got a catalog from Old World Honey in Montana, USA. They mention that Melilotus (sweet clover) is a main source of their honey. (Have great beeswax handlotion, too, by the pound!!) How does all this Melilotus come to be? Is it planted, or just feral? If it's planted, do people plant it for the honey, or for some other reason? How much of it is out there? (Makes me nervous, but I have to know!) Thanks! Liz Day LDAY@indy.net Indianapolis, Indiana, central USA