Date: Tue, 31 Oct 1995 21:10:53 +0000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Keith Hooker Organization: Technology Management Ltd Subject: Re: bees, bears, hornets I have come to accept that my hives always have a number of earwigs (Forficula auricularia) on the top of the crown board and under the the roof. They do not seem to do anything to upset the bees which seem to tolerate them even in the body of the hive. There are all sizes and often have pure white examples among them. Keith >>> Keith JM Hooker <<< >>> Technology Management Ltd <<< >>> WHITSTABLE Kent CT5 4ED UK <<< email: khooker@tecman.demon.co.uk ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Nov 1995 09:24:46 +0000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Malcolm Roe Subject: Causes of honey crystallization. I know about the affects of temperature (both high and low) on honey crystallization but that doesn't seem to explain the following strange observation. I've recently returned from a trip to N. America. I took a jar of honey with me that I ultimately gave to some relatives who live in Canada. When I set off from home the honey was liquid. When I handed it over about two weeks later it had crystallized from top to bottom. In the meantime it had been subjected to three plane flights (London UK to Vancouver BC, Vancouver to Portleand Oregon and Boise Idaho to Seattle) and a couple of thousand miles of surface transport (car, bus and train). For about a week I was visiting places above 6000 ft and part of the time was over 8000 ft. When I got home again the rest of the batch, bottled at the same time from the same bulk honey container, was still liquid (although a few small crystals could be seen at the bottom of the jars by using back lighting.) I discount temperature. Modern aircraft holds are, I believe, heated and, in addition, the weather was mild and, even when travelling, my luggage was taken indoors every night. The only other factors I can think of are vibration and air pressure. (There was no sign of the jar leaking honey.) Has anyone else observed this effect? -- Malcolm Roe Phone : +44 1442 345104 Crosfield Electronics Ltd Fax : +44 1442 343000 Hemel Hempstead, Herts. HP2 7RH, UK E-mail : roe@crosfield.co.uk ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Nov 1995 08:44:36 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Jeffrey P. Murray" Subject: Re: Causes of honey crystallization. In-Reply-To: <9511010924.AA22389@crosfield.co.uk> (message from Malcolm Roe on Wed, 1 Nov 1995 09:24:46 +0000) >I discount temperature. Modern aircraft holds are, I believe, heated >and, in addition, the weather was mild and, even when travelling, my >luggage was taken indoors every night. The only other factors I can I would not discount temperature, unless you carried your luggage on board. If you checked your bags, the luggage was put into the storage holds, which although heated, are not maintained at room temperature as the cabin is. I think a typical temperature in the holds is to hit in the 40 degree F range. That may have been enough to trigger the crystallization. Jeeef ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Nov 1995 09:05:17 CST6CDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: BLANE WHITE Organization: Minnesota Dept of Agriculture Subject: Re: Bees and Bears Hi Dave, Here in MN we have large areas of the state where it is a battle to keep the bears out of the apiary. Problems vary some from year to year but in general there is more damage over a wider area every year. The DNR here seems to have an inflated idea of how many bears there should be in an area and at the same time seems to have no real idea of how many of there are. The net result is problems for beekeepers and other citizens. Good electric fences will take care of the problem most of the time but they are expensive and require maintainance such as cutting all grass and weeds under the fence to keep it from shorting out. The 30 mile solar fencers work well but tend to walk off in some areas. We have a bear problem in many rural areas that goes well beyond beekeepers. Bears have been reported to have entered peoples homes and gone through the cupboards looking for food. They have been seen foraging in garbage cans and dumpsters in towns in the daytime. Many of these animals have lost most of their fear of humans and one wonders how long before a young child gets killed and eaten. They also cause problems at times for farmers as they can make a real mess in a corn or other grain field gathering the plants into a heap to eat the grain. In Minnesota there is no compensation for bear depredation but in the past the DNR has had a cost-share program to help in construction of electric fences. I don't know if that program is still in place. We also have a law on the books that any wild animal damaging property can be killed by the owner of the property. Such animals are to be reported to the DNR but often are not. We had a real problem in the northwest part of MN this year as a late frost and hot dry spell in June destroyed the wild berry and acorn crops and the bears were very hungry. Many were killed in beeyards with some beekeepers carrying guns while they harvested because they were have bears in the yard during the day. At times 3 or 4 adult bears in the same yard. In short, bears are a real problem in much of Minnesota for beekeepers. Good electric fences keep them out 95% or more of the time but are expensive to build and operate. Most of the damage occurs each year in areas that have not had a problem with bears before and the damage levels decrease once they have the yards fenced. In Thief River Falls this summer there were no fencers left in town because the beekeepers bought them all in an effort to prevent bear damage. The MN DNR reports that beekeepers account for only about 7% to 10% of bear complaints they get. hope this helps and good luck If you need information on fences some of our beekeepers know how to construct and operate a good fence. blane ****************************************** Blane White State Apiary Inspector Minnesota Department of Agriculture Division of Plant Protection 90 W Plato Blvd St Paul, MN 55107 http://www.mda.state.mn.us ph 612-296-0591 fax 612-296-7386 bwhite@mda-is.mda.state.mn.us ******************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Nov 1995 08:05:29 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Eric Abell Subject: Re: Photograph of a honeycomb -- without bee's in it In-Reply-To: <199510312223.AA16590@dove.lcs.mit.edu> On Tue, 31 Oct 1995, Joanne Talbot wrote: > Hi, > > I was wondering if anyone had or knew of a photograph of a > honeycomb without bee's in it? It's for a book cover -- and the > subject is distributed algorithms in computer science (the honeycomb > resembles the concepts in the book). > > Thanks much! Joanne Talbot > joanne@theory.lcs.mit.edu > Rather than a photograph, you could use a computer generated honecomb. If you find someone with Coreldraw and possibly a postscript printer you will have a collection of some terrific honeycombs that would look great as part of a book cover. Eric Abell email: eabell@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca Gibbons, AB, T0A 1N0 Canada (403) 998 3143 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Nov 1995 09:13:04 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: BusyKnight Subject: Re: Causes of honey crystallization. >typical temperature in the >holds is to hit in the 40 degree F range. Pet owners will be glad to hear this! BusyKnight busykngt@airmail.net ICBM INcode:N:32.45'W:96.45' Dallas, Republic of Texas Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is an absurd one. - Voltaire ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Nov 1995 10:27:05 +22299804 Reply-To: adamf@vtaix.cc.vt.edu Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Adam Finkelstein Subject: Voltaire (not about bees or beekeeping okay) In-Reply-To: <199511011513.JAA09589@server.iadfw.net> from "BusyKnight" at Nov 1, 95 09:13:04 am BusyKnight wrote: > > >typical temperature in the > >holds is to hit in the 40 degree F range. > > Pet owners will be glad to hear this! > BusyKnight > busykngt@airmail.net > ICBM INcode:N:32.45'W:96.45' > Dallas, Republic of Texas > Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but > certainty is an absurd one. - Voltaire > Truly spoken. :) Adam ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Nov 1995 10:31:46 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Marc Party Subject: Too much of a good thing? Folks, I'll be signing off of the Bee discussion group as soon as I figure out how. Can anyone out there please help me out with this? It has become too much for me. My in box is cluttered with messages. I know I have contributed my share in the past, but my initial enthusiasm has waned. It's nice to know the group is out here in case I have particular questions in the future. I think all interested beekeepers should have a good collection of books at home. I suggest we check in there for answers to our most common questions and use the discussion group to deal with less common queries, advice, observations. I must run and wrap tar paper around my hives - we received our first snow today! Waiting for directions to the question above. Marc Patry Near Ottawa, Ontario. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Nov 1995 10:39:03 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: JOHN IANNUZZI Subject: Re: Causes of honey crystallization. > I know about the affects of temperature (both high and low) on honey > crystallization but that doesn't seem to explain the following strange > observation. > > I've recently returned from a trip to N. America. I took a jar of honey > with me that I ultimately gave to some relatives who live in Canada. > When I set off from home the honey was liquid. When I handed it over > about two weeks later it had crystallized from top to bottom. In the > meantime it had been subjected to three plane flights (London UK to > Vancouver BC, Vancouver to Portleand Oregon and Boise Idaho to Seattle) > and a couple of thousand miles of surface transport (car, bus and > train). For about a week I was visiting places above 6000 ft and part > of the time was over 8000 ft. When I got home again the rest of the > batch, bottled at the same time from the same bulk honey container, was > still liquid (although a few small crystals could be seen at the bottom > of the jars by using back lighting.) > > I discount temperature. Modern aircraft holds are, I believe, heated > and, in addition, the weather was mild and, even when travelling, my > luggage was taken indoors every night. The only other factors I can > think of are vibration and air pressure. (There was no sign of the jar > leaking honey.) Has anyone else observed this effect? > > -- > Malcolm Roe Phone : +44 1442 345104 > Crosfield Electronics Ltd Fax : +44 1442 343000 > Hemel Hempstead, Herts. HP2 7RH, UK E-mail : roe@crosfield.co.uk > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > REPLY: U never told us the floral source. It must have been goldenrod, the king crystalizer??? Jack the B-man Ellicott City Md usa John Iannuzzi PhD * "Singing masons building roofs 9772 Old Annapolis Rd * of gold." --Shakespeare Ellicott City MD 21042 usa * 20 Italian colonies ji0079@epfl2.epflbalto.org * 3-1/2 decades in beedom ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Nov 1995 10:48:36 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: JOHN IANNUZZI Subject: Re: Photograph of a honeycomb -- without bee's in it > On Tue, 31 Oct 1995, Joanne Talbot wrote: > > > Hi, > > > > I was wondering if anyone had or knew of a photograph of a > > honeycomb without bee's in it? It's for a book cover -- and the > > subject is distributed algorithms in computer science (the honeycomb > > resembles the concepts in the book). > > > > Thanks much! Joanne Talbot > > joanne@theory.lcs.mit.edu > > > Rather than a photograph, you could use a computer generated honecomb. > If you find someone with Coreldraw and possibly a postscript printer you > will have a collection of some terrific honeycombs that would look great > as part of a book cover. > > > Eric Abell email: eabell@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca > Gibbons, AB, T0A 1N0 > Canada > (403) 998 3143 > REPLY: Stephen McDaniel is a beeman and professional photographer who does excellent work. Snail mail (has no email address): 4964 Wentz Rd Manchester MD 21102. I've seen his work on the cover of the American Bee Journal. Bonne chance. Jack the B-man John Iannuzzi PhD * "Singing masons building roofs 9772 Old Annapolis Rd * of gold." --Shakespeare Ellicott City MD 21042 usa * 20 Italian colonies ji0079@epfl2.epflbalto.org * 3-1/2 decades in beedom ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Nov 1995 10:59:58 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: JOHN IANNUZZI Subject: Re: bees, bears, hornets > I have come to accept that my hives always have a number of earwigs > (Forficula auricularia) on the top of the crown board and under the > the roof. > > They do not seem to do anything to upset the bees which seem to > tolerate them even in the body of the hive. There are all sizes and > often have pure white examples among them. > > Keith > >>> Keith JM Hooker <<< > >>> Technology Management Ltd <<< > >>> WHITSTABLE Kent CT5 4ED UK <<< > email: khooker@tecman.demon.co.uk > Reply: Welkum aboard! John Iannuzzi PhD * "Singing masons building roofs 9772 Old Annapolis Rd * of gold." --Shakespeare Ellicott City MD 21042 usa * 20 Italian colonies ji0079@epfl2.epflbalto.org * 3-1/2 decades in beedom ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Nov 1995 11:05:01 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: JOHN IANNUZZI Subject: Re: MD Honey > HELLO,IM INTERESTED IN MARYLAND HONEY ....PLEASE E-MAIL ME DIRECTLY > WARSING@AOL.COM WITH PRICES AND TYPES > My dear readers everywhere, My "Md Honey" message was a mistake. I was clearing out my Queue and hit S(end) instead of D(elete). A man in the "Pacific Northwest" (no further i.d.) has chewed me out already. BTW, I was seeking the sweet stuff, not disposing of it. Cheers. Jack the B-man PS If & when U find some, please let me know? John Iannuzzi PhD * "Singing masons building roofs 9772 Old Annapolis Rd * of gold." --Shakespeare Ellicott City MD 21042 usa * 20 Italian colonies ji0079@epfl2.epflbalto.org * 3-1/2 decades in beedom ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Nov 1995 11:07:50 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: JOHN IANNUZZI Subject: Re: Bees and Bears > Dear Beekeeping Friends, > > (I mistakenly sent my original post to the server, not the board. Here is a > re-post.) > > Since the Maryland DNR is reviewing their black bear policy, I would like to > take this opportunity to ask beekeepers around the country about the > different black bear policies in force in their states. Some of the issues > being discussed here are compensation for damage to hives, bear population > control measures, electric fences and public education. How has your state > addressed these issues? > > Further, I would also appreciate information on how to get copies of > different state policies on black bear control. > > Thank you, > David Morris, President > Maryland State Beekeepers Assn. > REPLY: Dave, I read your original message and now the repeat. Though U might like to know. Jack the B-man John Iannuzzi PhD * "Singing masons building roofs 9772 Old Annapolis Rd * of gold." --Shakespeare Ellicott City MD 21042 usa * 20 Italian colonies ji0079@epfl2.epflbalto.org * 3-1/2 decades in beedom ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Nov 1995 08:21:00 -0800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Kerry Clark of AGF 784-2225 fax (604) 784 2299" Subject: Re: Bees and Bears David Morris, President Maryland State Beekeepers Assn. wrote: Subject: Re: Bees and Bears Since the Maryland DNR is reviewing their black bear policy, I would like to take this opportunity to ask beekeepers around the country about the different black bear policies in force in their states. Some of the issues being discussed here are compensation for damage to hives, bear population control measures, electric fences and public education. How has your state addressed these issues? Further, I would also appreciate information on how to get copies of different state policies on black bear control. Thank you, David: In June 94, Dr James Tew collected information similar to what you are looking for, for Dr William Andelt, Extension Wildlife Specialist, Colorado State University. I know Jim Tew is on email, but I don't have his address. Dr Andelt could be contacted at (303) 491-7093. We have lots of bears in B.C. Beekeepers adjust their behavior to fit their tolerance of the situation, building electric fences or using several other methods to protect hives. In the past several years, a trade in bear gall bladders, paws and other parts as well as baiting for bear shooting, has left a public impression that bears are persecuted and endangered. Although I know of no beekeeper involvement in these activities, the wildlife agency scrutiny of bear shooting has increased, and beekeepers are required to be able to justify more certainly, any bear shooting, and must be careful not to, (or appear to) use their protection rights, to harvest bears. Kerry Clark, Apiculture Specialist B.C. Ministry of Agriculture 1201 103 Ave Dawson Creek B.C. V1G 4J2 CANADA Tel (604) 784-2225 fax (604) 784-2299 INTERNET KCLARK@GALAXY.GOV.BC.CA ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Nov 1995 14:22:09 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Amy Gordon Subject: Honey bee navigation In-Reply-To: <9511010924.AA22389@crosfield.co.uk> Hi everyone! I am new in your newsgroup and want to start off by asking a question. I am doing a paper on the mechanisms of honey bee navigation. I am interested in any information possible. Dr. Fell has already given me a few references but would be receptive to any others. Thank you. Amy Gordon Hastings College Hastings, NE ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Nov 1995 14:44:20 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: BusyKnight Subject: Re: Honey bee navigation >the mechanisms of honey bee navigation. >Amy Gordon Amy, A very good source is Mark Winston's book, "The Biology of the Honey Bee" (Chapter 9). He does a thorough job explaining it. There are several great little tests that you can perform at the undergrad level. Welcome to the list and good luck on your paper, hope ya get an 'A'. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Nov 1995 16:23:09 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Randy Lynn Subject: Re: Hex Jars, still lookin'! In a message dated 95-10-11 08:02:11 EDT, you write: > I'm still >looking for a supplier of hexagonal jars in the States. Brushy Mountain has them in North Carolina. Sorry I don't have their phone number. RCLynn@AOL.COM ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Nov 1995 16:33:09 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Chittka Subject: Re: Honey bee navigation Dear Amy, you may be interested in Animal Behavior 50, 23-31 Animal Behavior 49, 159-164 Ethology 99, 117-126 Naturwissenschaften 82, 341-343 All these papers by Chittka et al appeared in 1995 and describe the influences of landmarks on distance and direction estimation in honeybees. best wishes, lars chittka ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Nov 1995 17:03:42 -30000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: John Jessup Subject: Re: Too much of a good thing? Please pass the word on how to sign off from bee-line. I need to do so when I am away on travel or else my mailbox gets plugged. Thanx ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Nov 1995 16:50:37 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: BusyKnight Subject: Re: Too much of a good thing? >Please pass the word on how to sign off from bee-line. Do the same thing as you did to subscribe to the list except use the word, "unsubscribe" (I believe the word 'quit' will work too). BusyKnight busykngt@airmail.net ICBM INcode:N:32.45'W:96.45' Dallas, Republic of Texas Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is an absurd one. - Voltaire ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Nov 1995 21:18:23 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "" Subject: Contaminated honey? >Hello fellow Beekeepers, > > I am a hobby beekeeper with six hives in eastern >Pennsyvalnia, east of Philadelphia. I robbed my girls early >this year in July in order to treat early with Apistan strip >Most definitely your honey will be contaminated, the best thing is to use it >as feed for the bees. It came from your bees and can be fed back without >problems. We feed honey most years, from cappings and drippings etc. The robbed colonies currently have two deep brood chambers and a super full of tainted honey. If I feed back the honey taken, they probably will store it and won't it still be tainted next year? Does fluvalinate breakdown in honey with time? Does the trace hydrogen peroxide generated during the sugar inversion process do anything to oxidize fluvalinate? The Apistan add states that "Apistan doesn't contaminate honey." If 1000 microgams get into 22 pounds (10 Kgm) of honey, this amounts to 100 parts per billion fluvalinate. What level is harmful? I would have thought that fluvalinate would be more soluble in the wax than a saturated sugar solution. Perhaps it equilibrates to some degree between the wax and honey. It seems that if Apistan can contaminate honey, some trace levels would be detectable in subsequent years, even if the strips were removed before a honey flow. In any event, I think I have more tainted honey than can be consummed by the bees. How about making mead with it, or would this also be inadviseable? Apistan is the only approved treatment for Verroa and it means that we must treat or lose the bees. It is a remarkably effective product but apparently comes with a highly negative side effect if we can't use the contaminated honey. Thanks for any feedback on my dilema. THOCHHEIMER@Delphi.com Downingtown, PA ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Nov 1995 21:23:06 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Paul J. Deveau" Subject: Re: Too much of a good thing? >Folks, I'll be signing off of the Bee discussion group as soon as I figure >out how. Can anyone out there please help me out with this? > To sign off the Bee-l, just send a message to Listserv@cnsibm.albany.edu with the message: signoff bee-l. Within a few minutes, you'll get a message telling you it has been done. Paul J. Deveau deveaupj@cnwl.igs.net P.O. Box 1006 258 Hope Street Alexandria, Ontario Canada, K0C 1A0 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Nov 1995 07:51:01 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Gerard Worrell Subject: Re: Contaminated honey? In-Reply-To: <199510300501.AAA28616@cbl.cees.edu> Tom Hochheimer requested information on honey contaminated by Apistan. Tom please explain exactly what you did. IF you removed ALL supers when you installed the Apistan and then removed the Apistan prior to replacing your supers, you will not have contaminated your honey. If on the other hand, you removed and extracted the honey, putting the wet supers back on with the Apistan still in place you will have gotten some Apistan into the honey. There have been some comments on the small amount of Apistan in the brood combs (don't extract them for human use), but since it is a contact miticide, the residual down below can be "tracked"up into the supers. Not enough to worry about. BTW, some of the comments I received on the viruses being used, not being a pesticide, why is, then, a miticide still considered a pesticide? Let's face it any formulation used to kill 'critters' we consider a pest is a pesticide IMHO. -- Gerard P.Worrell Beekeeper with 25 colonies (410)257-3267 Dunkirk,MD USA Pres. Assoc. of Southern MD Beekeepers Life member MD State Beekeepers Association,VP for Calvert Co. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Nov 1995 08:30:48 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: JOHN IANNUZZI Subject: Re: Contaminated honey? > Tom Hochheimer requested information on honey contaminated by Apistan. > Tom please explain exactly what you did. IF you removed ALL supers when > you installed the Apistan and then removed the Apistan prior to replacing > your supers, you will not have contaminated your honey. If on the other > hand, you removed and extracted the honey, putting the wet supers back on > with the Apistan still in place you will have gotten some Apistan into > the honey. There have been some comments on the small amount of Apistan > in the brood combs (don't extract them for human use), but since it is a > contact miticide, the residual down below can be "tracked"up into the > supers. Not enough to worry about. > BTW, some of the comments I received on the viruses being used, not > being a pesticide, why is, then, a miticide still considered a pesticide? > Let's face it any formulation used to kill 'critters' we consider a pest > is a pesticide IMHO. > -- > Gerard P.Worrell Beekeeper with 25 colonies > (410)257-3267 Dunkirk,MD USA > Pres. Assoc. of Southern MD Beekeepers > Life member MD State Beekeepers Association,VP for Calvert Co. > REPLY: Jerry, well done. I agree w/ U 100%. BTW, hope the operation succeed. Am prayin' 4 U. John Iannuzzi PhD * "Singing masons building roofs 9772 Old Annapolis Rd * of gold." --Shakespeare Ellicott City MD 21042 usa * 20 Italian colonies ji0079@epfl2.epflbalto.org * 3-1/2 decades in beedom ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Nov 1995 08:41:36 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ray Lackey Subject: contaminated honey If you read the directions, it says to remove the honey supers before putting on the Apistan. In this way, Apistan will not contaminate the honey. The wax in the supers would not have been exposed and next year's honey would not receive second hand exposure, something like second hand smoke! Consider using your supers with Apistan exposed honey as brood boxes. When appropriate next spring, divide your strong c colonies and give them each a box of honey (Apistan variety) for a second box. That will give them a good kick to get built up. You would have to mark the frames to prevent future exposure. The Apistan has been approved for use according to the label directions. Mis-application could cause 'detectable levels' in the honey and 1) cause it to be withdrawn from the market because of misuse, or 2) cause a consumer scare like the apple people had with pesticide residue. _We_must_maintain_a_pure_product!_ If you must medicate during a honey flow, consider putting on brood boxes with foundation to supply rotation replacement combs for culling old combs or expansion. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ + Raymond J. Lackey, EAS Master Beekeeper, VP LIBA + + Twelve years exper with 25 colonies on Long Island, NY+ + INTERNET: lackeyr@hazeltine.com + + Mail: 1260 Walnut Avenue, Bohemia NY 11617-2176 + + Home Phone: 516-567-1936 FAX: 516-262-8053 + ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Nov 1995 08:53:10 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: JOHN IANNUZZI Subject: Re: Hex Jars, still lookin'! > In a message dated 95-10-11 08:02:11 EDT, you write: > > > I'm still > >looking for a supplier of hexagonal jars in the States. > > Brushy Mountain has them in North Carolina. Sorry I don't have their phone > number. > > RCLynn@AOL.COM > REPLY: Steve/Sandy Forrest, Brushy Mt, Rt 1, Box 135, Moravian Falls, NC 26654 - 1/800/beeswax Also Walter T Kelley Co POBox 240 Clarkson KY 42726 - 1/800/233-2899 Could not find any in the current Dadant, Betterbee (huge selection shapes and sizes), Glorybee, Hubbard, Lapp, Glorybee and Root cats. Bonne chance. Jack the B-man John Iannuzzi PhD * "Singing masons building roofs 9772 Old Annapolis Rd * of gold." --Shakespeare Ellicott City MD 21042 usa * 20 Italian colonies ji0079@epfl2.epflbalto.org * 3-1/2 decades in beedom ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Nov 1995 09:57:50 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Aaron Morris Subject: Unsubscribing from bee-l The command to cancel a subscription from ANY listserv list is: SIGNOFF listname Following are the instructions taken from the online LISTSERV manual (LISTSERV REFCARD): LISTSERV(TM) System Reference Library, release 1.8b --------------------------------------------------- Copyright L-Soft international, 1986-1995 Last update: May 24th, 1995 ************************************************************ * * * LISTSERV command reference cards: * * * *-> LISTSERV REFCARD: General user commands * ... Commands are listed in alphabetical order, with the minimum acceptable abbreviation in capital letters. Angle brackets are used to indicate optional parameters... List subscription commands (from most to least important) --------------------------------------------------------- SUBscribe listname Subscribe to a list, or change your name if already subscribed SIGNOFF Remove yourself: listname - From the specified list * - From all lists on that server * (NETWIDE - From all lists in the network .... >---------------------------------------< If the above SIGNOFF command does not work for you, send me E-Mail directly, spare the rest of the list, and I will take care of cancelling your subscription. Aaron Morris IBM System Administrator University at Albany ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Nov 1995 09:04:07 -1000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Richard Foote, RBU, SFO, 415-598-5596" Organization: VeriFone Subject: Our first honey Comments: cc: lamichaels@aol.com Dear Bee list readers/contributors: This spring we started our first hive ever in Hayward, California, from a Dadant kit and a package that didn't arrive until May, as I recall. While we did not expect any honey, we sure had fun setting up the hive and watching the bees grow as they guzzled suger water (we had a weird spring) well into summer. Soon we had to add a second body, and later this fall as it filled up, we added a queen excluder and a shallow body super. And it is pretty full of capped comb! We've taken one frame from it and replaced that one. This morning I had honey on my toast with coffee -- it was great. And the Italian bees are wonderful -- real ladies (unless you're a bumble bee or a drone in the fall). So Thanks to all the great ideas and comments we've read, and to those lurkers that just read the list, get planning for next year!. We're already thinking about where to put a second hive (partly base on zoning regulations). Regards, Richard Foote Angel Michaels Hayward, Ca - one wonderful hive Richard_f1@verifone.com LAMichaels@aol.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Nov 1995 18:13:07 +0000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Gordon Scott Subject: Re: Too much of a good thing? In-Reply-To: <9511011531.AA20193@emr1.emr.ca> on Wed, 1 Nov 1995, Marc Party wrote: > Folks, I'll be signing off of the Bee discussion group as soon as I figure > out how. Can anyone out there please help me out with this? > > It has become too much for me. My in box is cluttered with messages. I > know I have contributed my share in the past, but my initial enthusiasm has > waned. ... Hi, As groups like bee-l and sci.agriculture.beekeeping get bigger it is inevitable that people leave due to overload. Someone recently wrote directly to me asking if there was a UK mailing list because bee-l and sci.a.b were very USA oriented. Maybe it's time we started considering splitting bee-l and/or sci.a.b into context related subgroups. Bee-l is supposed to be for "Discussion on Bee Biology". We have tended to stray substantially from that into bee farming, honey production, wax uses and so on. Maybe bee-l should be returned to its original mandate and a new line for non-biology related stuff should be started. What think? A better candidate still for splitting would be sci.a.b (except that not everyone who gets bee-l can get newsgroups). I think that sci.a.b's mandate is wider and maybe less biology oriented. An advantage with newsgroups is also that one can more easily filter stuff automatically for example, I always exclude postings with LOCAL in the subject line because that _usually_ means USA somewhere. Similarly, I'd probably filter our bears in the subject line -- not a problem we have in England ;-). I think that we could consider moving towards something like the following, perhaps starting with the * ones. sci.agriculture.beekeeping sci.a.b.biology * sci.a.b.ecology sci.a.b.farming * sci.a.b.help * sci.a.b.hive-produce sci.a.b.honey sci.a.b.newbee * sci.a.b.other-bees sci.a.b.pests sci.a.b.pollination Incidently, that suggested starting point is intended only to reflect what I think is a reasonable spread of interests, not some particular interest of mine -- I personally would subscribe to most anyway. Maybe others would view the mix differently -- maybe pests should be there?. Best regards, -- Gordon Scott gordon@apis.demon.co.uk Hampshire, England. gordon@multitone.co.uk Beekeeper; Kendo 3rd Dan; Sometime sailor. The Basingstoke Beekeeper (newsletter) beekeeper@apis.demon.co.uk ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Nov 1995 15:20:48 +22299804 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Adam Finkelstein Subject: Too much of a good thing? Hardly. In-Reply-To: from "Gordon Scott" at Nov 2, 95 06:13:07 pm Gordon Scott wrote: > Maybe it's time we started considering splitting bee-l and/or sci.a.b > into context related subgroups. > > A better candidate still for splitting would be sci.a.b (except that > not everyone who gets bee-l can get newsgroups). I think that sci.a.b's > mandate is wider and maybe less biology oriented. An advantage with > newsgroups is also that one can more easily filter stuff automatically > for example, I always exclude postings with LOCAL in the subject line > because that _usually_ means USA somewhere. Similarly, I'd probably > filter our bears in the subject line -- not a problem we have in > England ;-). This should be posted to the newsgroup. (if it hasn't been) The newsgroup is worldwide, the topics can be filtered --this issue is discussed ad nauseam. If people want to discuss topics non USA related on sci.agriculture.beekeeping, they should: nothing is stopping them. If they do not want to read specific topics, they don't have to. Creating a whole new bunch of newsgroups is not the answer. I suggest reading news.groups for awhile to see the politics, hassle and methodology of Usenet group creation. Adam adamf@vtaix.cc.vt.edu ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Nov 1995 21:17:36 +0000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Rees, Simon" Subject: Re: Too much of a good thing? On Thurs, 2nd. Nov, Gordon Scott wrote ..... >Bee-l is supposed to be for "Discussion on Bee Biology". We have >tended to stray substantially from that into bee farming, honey >production, wax uses and so on. Maybe bee-l should be returned >to its original mandate and a new line for non-biology related >stuff should be started. What think?...... Hi, Personally, I like it just as it is...I can't get at newsgroups here, so Bee-L is all I get, and I enjoy it lots. I'd miss you if you went away! Simon simon.rees@mcl.co.uk..A newcomer beekeeper in Twickenham, U.K...with one hive and a mighty stroppy queen!.. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 Nov 1995 09:40:53 PST Reply-To: m12345@cybernet.co.nz Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Mark Horsnell Subject: Re: Too much of a good thing? hi gordon scott, who writes: >As groups like bee-l and sci.agriculture.beekeeping get bigger it is >inevitable that people leave due to overload. Someone recently wrote >directly to me asking if there was a UK mailing list because bee-l and >sci.a.b were very USA oriented. hell, if you just want something local, join your local bee club. i enjoy the international flavour of newsgroups & lists. we can learn so much from our nthn hemisphere cousins. besides are these two "sites" THAT big?? >Maybe it's time we started considering splitting bee-l and/or sci.a.b >into context related subgroups. >snip< >sci.agriculture.beekeeping > sci.a.b.biology * > sci.a.b.ecology > sci.a.b.farming * > sci.a.b.help * > sci.a.b.hive-produce > sci.a.b.honey > sci.a.b.newbee * > sci.a.b.other-bees > sci.a.b.pests > sci.a.b.pollination apiculture & all the surrounding subjects are not *that* widely followed internationally (particularly in tandem with internet connections). in other words, it's not as big as alt.sex ;-) !!! to use another analogy: it's a bit like television in a small country such as new zealand. just increasing the number of channels doesn't necessarily make for better television, or make it easier to know what to watch. u have to learn to use the channel button wisely - but MOST IMPORTANTLY u have to know when to use the OFF switch!!! similarly, there are many appropriate filters, and there's always the handy DELETE button as u go thru your mail/newsgroup. i'm relatively new to beekeeping and i know there is soooooooo much to learn. i prefer a broader, more mixed insight into the bee, and for that reason 1 list & 1 newsgroup is a great way to go. if you haven't already used your DELETE button on this, thank you for reading ;-) best regards, Mark Horsnell, Auckland, New Zealand Tel & Fax: 64-9-846-5644 E-mail: m12345@cybernet.co.nz ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Nov 1995 12:57:00 -0800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: BSchwartz Subject: Used Equipment (Looking For) Ladies and Gentlemen of the list, I am a beginner at bee keeping, and am starting to get set up for Next Spring. Rather than buy the beginner kit out of the Dadant catalog, I am looking to pickup some used equipment. I wouldn't mind spending a few weekends fixing up some older equipment either. I live in Manteca, CA. (San Joaquin Valley) and will be setting up the hives on a ranch in Raymond, CA (Fresno Hills). If you live anywhere remotely close, and are looking to sell, send me an email... I'd like to talk. PS: I found an ad in the paper that read "BEES for rent", is this common?? I was getting set to put my first order into Dadant for next spring. Maybe I should hold off? PPS: My interest in beekeeping started because I am a consumer of BEE POLLEN.. It has truely been a lifesaver for my allergies this year. I know it has helped others.. Any of you who know where I can find good cheap Bee Pollen, I'd welcome your advice.. I currently pay $7-8 per lb. at a local health food store. -Brian email: bschwartz@alphausa.alphatec.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Nov 1995 15:21:21 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ida van Grinsven Subject: Re: honey house inspection -Reply Comments: To: BILLVR@NCRPIS-1.ARS-GRIN.GOV, nc7jr@sun.ars-grin.gov Andy: I to am very interested in reading about beekeeping in years gone by. As a matter of fact I am printing your letters and sending them on to the wonderful person who taught me the art of beekeeping, who is presently in Africa for two years. So PLEASE continue.....Ida ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Nov 1995 14:59:48 -0600 Reply-To: dicka@cuug.ab.ca Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Allen Dick Organization: The Beekeepers Subject: Splitting BEE-L > Bee-l is supposed to be for "Discussion on Bee Biology". We have > tended to stray substantially from that into bee farming, honey > production, wax uses and so on. Maybe bee-l should be returned to > its original mandate and a new line for non-biology related stuff > should be started. What think? I've noticed that there hasn't been a topic on this list of interest to me personally for some time - with the possible exception of this one. I have asssumed that this condition would pass and the list might someday return to its former glory. I've almost quit archiving the list because there isn't much worth archiving (IMHO). I'm very close to unsubscribing, myself. For some time now, I have considered a list for serious, experienced (largely commercial) beekeepers and government extension workers and scientists. Ideally such a list would be lower volume and perhaps moderated. Last time I brought it up I got flamed, and so I have held back to see what developed. Personally I am for free expression on this list, and feel that no one should try to limit discussion. However, I am thinking that there should be an alternative. If there is any interest, please email me personally. Flames to \dev\nul Regards Allen W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper VE6CFK Rural Route One, Swalwell, Alberta Canada T0M 1Y0 Honey. Bees, Art, & Futures ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Nov 1995 17:15:10 -0500 Reply-To: godave@infi.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Dave Johnson Organization: mailhost.nr.infi.net Subject: Re: Contaminated honey? Tom Hochheimer requested information on honey contaminated by Apistan. Tom please explain exactly what you did. IF you removed ALL supers when you installed the Apistan and then removed the Apistan prior to replacing your supers, you will not have contaminated your honey. QUESTION: Do you need to wait any length of time to safely avoid honey contamination from Apistan strips between their removal and the addition of honey supers? I have been told that 30 days needs to elapse between the removal of Apistan strips and the adding of honey supers to avoid contamination. It sure would be good news to me that supers can be added immediately after removing the fluvalinate, considering the twice a year treatment this area seems to require. Thanks. Dave Johnson Suffolk, VA USA email: godave@infi.net ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Nov 1995 17:10:05 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jerry J Bromenshenk Subject: Re: Photograph of a honeycomb -- without bee's in it In-Reply-To: <9511011548.AA05186@epfl2> from "JOHN IANNUZZI" at Nov 1, 95 10:48:36 am The windows wallpaper selections has a honey comb without any bees. Jerry ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Nov 1995 23:07:47 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Liz Day Subject: too much, etc. I have been on bee-line without cease for 2-3 years so far. I have not seen any problems that were bad enough to make any changes to the list worthwhile. It seems OK to me as it is. Liz Day LDAY@indy.net Indianapolis, Indiana, central USA ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Nov 1995 20:13:40 -0800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ann Dougherty Subject: Apistan in wax In-Reply-To: <9511030010.AA03554@selway.umt.edu> I use apistan according to its directions and actually try to keep it in the hive as short as possible. The chemicals don't sit well with me. My question is this If wax absorbs apistan what happens when I make candles and burn them? Does it all go up in smoke so to speak? Ann ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Nov 1995 22:42:17 -0600 Reply-To: dicka@cuug.ab.ca Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Allen Dick Organization: The Beekeepers Subject: Re: too much, etc. > I have been on bee-line without cease for 2-3 years so far. I have > not seen any problems that were bad enough to make any changes to > the list worthwhile. It seems OK to me as it is. Liz Day > LDAY@indy.net Indianapolis, Indiana, central USA Okay, thanks Liz. I think I may start a second list tho' because we are losing the scientists. They just silently unsubscribe. Regards Allen W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper VE6CFK Rural Route One, Swalwell, Alberta Canada T0M 1Y0 Honey. Bees, Art, & Futures ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 Nov 1995 03:07:00 +0200 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Durk Ellison Organization: Metropoli BBS Finland Subject: Re: Too much of a good thing ? Hi Gordon, >As groups like bee-l and sci.agriculture.beekeeping get bigger it is >inevitable that people leave due to overload. Someone recently wrote >directly to me asking if there was a UK mailing list because bee-l and >sci.a.b were very USA oriented. In a way there is, it's called BeeNet - UK and it has local areas to the UK and International areas covering almost everything on your list below. You can also get sci.ag.beekeeping ( a read and write area) and BEE-L (a read only area), as I understand it, the owner of BEE-L forbids BeeNet users from replying to messages in BEE-L. As I've said before access to the internet is very expensive and most, at least here, can't afford it. However the expenses for BeeNet are mainly born by the individual Sysops in each country. The UK is currently one of the fastest growing BeeNet countries in Europe. I would suggest you contact: Steven Turner Regional Coordinator, Beenet UK, Catford, London 44-181-695-5328 data phone Allen Coates Cider County, Bristol 44-117-955-3421 data phone >Maybe it's time we started considering splitting bee-l and/or sci.a.b >into context related subgroups. >Bee-l is supposed to be for "Discussion on Bee Biology". We have >tended to stray substantially from that into bee farming, honey >production, wax uses and so on. Maybe bee-l should be returned >to its original mandate and a new line for non-biology related >stuff should be started. What think? It would be very nice to see Bee-l get back on track. >A better candidate still for splitting would be sci.a.b (except that >not everyone who gets bee-l can get newsgroups). I think that sci.a.b's >mandate is wider and maybe less biology oriented. An advantage with >newsgroups is also that one can more easily filter stuff automatically >for example, I always exclude postings with LOCAL in the subject line >because that _usually_ means USA somewhere. Similarly, I'd probably >filter our bears in the subject line -- not a problem we have in >England ;-). >I think that we could consider moving towards something like the >following, perhaps starting with the * ones. Already done, contact BeeNet. >sci.agriculture.beekeeping > sci.a.b.biology * > sci.a.b.ecology > sci.a.b.farming * > sci.a.b.help * > sci.a.b.hive-produce > sci.a.b.honey > sci.a.b.newbee * > sci.a.b.other-bees > sci.a.b.pests > sci.a.b.pollination >Incidently, that suggested starting point is intended only to reflect >what I think is a reasonable spread of interests, not some particular >interest of mine -- I personally would subscribe to most anyway. Maybe >others would view the mix differently -- maybe pests should be there?. >Best regards, >-- >Gordon Scott gordon@apis.demon.co.uk Hampshire, England. > gordon@multitone.co.uk > Beekeeper; Kendo 3rd Dan; Sometime sailor. >The Basingstoke Beekeeper (newsletter) beekeeper@apis.demon.co.uk Regards, Durk Ellison OH2ZAS BeeNet: 240:2358/100 email: durk.ellison@pcb.mpoli.fi ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 Nov 1995 12:05:38 +0100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jean-Marie Van Dyck Subject: Re: Apistan in wax Hello Ann, Hi all Seems it's the best way to use the beeswax from the 4 frames mostly contaminated with Apistan : to burn them in candles ... if the flame is quiet (don't disturb by any vent) the fluvalinate molecule will be cracked into elements and oxidized in carbon dioxide and water as the wax. Really you'll create some other molecules but no more than the usual burning candles. It's also the usual action of candle flames against the smokes ! Hope this helps ! Jean-Marie ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 Nov 1995 08:45:35 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: POMFREY@UNCA.EDU Organization: University of North Carolina at Asheville Subject: Too much I would have to agree with Allen Dick. I know of several scientist that have silently left the list. I am thinking of doing the same. That is not to say that the list will collapse without scientist. However I do think the "flavor" of the list will become less informative but more "entertaining". Guess it all depends on what one is after! Herb Pomfrey Biology Dept University of North Carolina Asheville North Carolina USA ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 Nov 1995 14:56:06 +0100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jean-Marie Van Dyck Subject: Spliting BEE-L ? NO ! on Wed, 1 Nov 1995, Marc Party wrote: > Folks, I'll be signing off of the Bee discussion group as soon as I > figure out how. ... cut ... > It has become too much for me. My in box is cluttered with messages. On Thu, 2 Nov 1995 Gordon Scott commented : > ... it is inevitable that people leave due to overload ... > Bee-l is supposed to be for "Discussion on Bee Biology". We have > tended to stray substantially from that into bee farming, honey > production, wax uses and so on. Maybe bee-l should be returned > to its original mandate and a new line for non-biology related > stuff should be started. What think? Please ! Please ! Please ! All ! Don't try to re-invent the square wheel ! Hello ! I'm a french scientific+beekeeper speaking bee-liner since end of 1992 and a discussion like this taked place on spring 1993 (see the archiv). At this time we were about 280 on BEE-L and some members found "it it too much..." or "it is not enough ..." and we discussed and discussed and the "more scientific and serious list" SOCINSCT was created. Looking at the list members, I was surprised to see almost nobody to get out the BEE-L list after to sign-on the SOCINSCT one. In September, only 7 recipients on BEE-L were getting out to sign on SOCINSCT only. And the Bee-L list counted still 280 members. (Yes, Liz you sign on a bit after that boring discussions) IMHO SocInsct is not a *living* list as BEE-L and *living* means you must use more frequently the *del* button ... I'll stop here because to write in english is a work for me and I have not to much time now. But as an oldman on bee-l (Allen and Gordon: on in 94; Simon, Marc and Mark: on in 95), I'm convinced we must still keep a single list on Bees in spite of we are now 615 members worldwide bee lovers. I agree with the Liz mail : > It seems to me OK as it is. It is even possible to improve the use of our list : I'm seeing 1/ for *each* mail a really significative subject line ! 2/ may be a little more netiquette ! and I copy Mark ... > if you haven't already used your DELETE button on this, thank you > for reading ;-) Jean-Marie I quite agree with you Mark : > ... but MOST IMPORTANTLY u have to know when to use the OFF switch!!! some list have a POSTPONE button to remain signing-on but don't receive any mail. Seems we havn't. > similarly, there are many appropriate filters, and there's always > the handy DELETE button as u go thru your mail/newsgroup. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Local blooming informations ... Lat.Long. : N:50.30' E:04.56' - Alt. : 200 m - North sea : 200 km Nothing for the bees ... cold and rainy weather till spring 96 Jean-Marie Van Dyck Fax +32 81 72 42 72 B.P. 102 email : jmvandyck@quick.cc.fundp.ac.be B-5000 NAMUR(Belgium) Medical school - Biochemistry dept This => C'est ma facon de parler ! ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 Nov 1995 09:00:09 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: JOHN IANNUZZI Subject: Re: Used Equipment (Looking For) > Ladies and Gentlemen of the list, > > I am a beginner at bee keeping, and am starting to get set up for Next > Spring. > > Rather than buy the beginner kit out of the Dadant catalog, I am looking to > pickup some used equipment. I wouldn't mind spending a few weekends fixing > up some older equipment either. > > I live in Manteca, CA. (San Joaquin Valley) and will be setting up the hives > on a ranch in Raymond, CA (Fresno Hills). > > If you live anywhere remotely close, and are looking to sell, send me an > email... I'd like to talk. > > PS: I found an ad in the paper that read "BEES for rent", is this common?? I > was getting set to put my first order into Dadant for next spring. Maybe I > should hold off? > > PPS: My interest in beekeeping started because I am a consumer of BEE > POLLEN.. It has truely been a lifesaver for my allergies this year. I know > it has helped others.. Any of you who know where I can find good cheap Bee > Pollen, I'd welcome your advice.. I currently pay $7-8 per lb. at a local > health food store. > > -Brian > email: bschwartz@alphausa.alphatec.com > REPLY: The monthly American Bee Journal (ask for free copy - 51 S 2nd St Hamilton IL 62341) lists Pollen-for-Sale ads every month, starting at $3.50 per pound plus shipping. U certainly can do better there. Better yet, get yourself a pollen trap (I run seven every year). The best trap out there for my money is made by Stauffer's Bee Hives Rt 1 Box 489 Port Trevorton PA 17864, sent postpaid continental USA for $33 (price changes 31dec95). It is truly unique. I shud know since I've tested more than 10 diff configurations over the years. It even comes w/ a unique "guarantee." U can't go wrong! Bonne chance. Jack the B-man PS David Martin He drives a horse and buggy and uses no electricity. Nor does he have phone so don't try getting his number from the operator. John Iannuzzi PhD * "Singing masons building roofs 9772 Old Annapolis Rd * of gold." --Shakespeare Ellicott City MD 21042 usa * 20 Italian colonies ji0079@epfl2.epflbalto.org * 3-1/2 decades in beedom ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 Nov 1995 10:25:15 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jerry J Bromenshenk Subject: Re: Too much In-Reply-To: <01HX77SHO6TI8WVZHP@cluster.unca.edu> from "POMFREY@UNCA.EDU" at Nov 3, 95 08:45:35 am Sorry folks, but I have to agree. The flavor is changing. More and more how do I "do the basics" that appear in any good book on beekeeping, or that can be determined by simply reading labels. If the list is to remain of interest to me, I need to see more discussion of at least moderately advanced topics. One way of avoiding splitting the list might be to pause before hitting the reply button. Should your answer go to the whole list or just to the sender? Simple requests for basic information should go to the sender. It seems to me that much of the recent chatter revolves around specific questions about some detail, like when should I feed my bees, or where do I find a picture, or does anyone in state x have any bees for sale. These questions are important to the requester, but do all 600+ of us need to see 5-20 answers to the same question? Thanks for your time, and please respond to me, not to the list. Jerry Bromenshenk The University of Montana jjbmail@selway.umt.edu ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 Nov 1995 12:40:14 -0500 Reply-To: Mason Harris Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Mason Harris Subject: don't do it! >I have been on bee-line without cease for 2-3 years so far. I have >not seen any problems that were bad enough to make any changes to >the list worthwhile. >It seems OK to me as it is. >Liz Day I agree with Liz! Please do not change a thing. Mason Harris Burlingame, CA E-Mail: SMHARRIS@ED.CO.SANMATEO.CA.US ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 Nov 1995 09:28:50 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: BusyKnight Subject: No Electricity? >PS David Martin He drives a horse and buggy and >uses no electricity. What a shame :-( Just look at all the fun he misses by not being on BEE-L!! BusyKnight busykngt@airmail.net ICBM INcode:N:32.45'W:96.45' Dallas, Republic of Texas Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is an absurd one. - Voltaire ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 Nov 1995 19:40:11 +0000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Gordon Scott Subject: Re: Too much of a good thing? Comments: To: Mark Horsnell In-Reply-To: On Fri, 3 Nov 1995, Mark Horsnell wrote: > hi gordon scott, who writes: > > >As groups like bee-l and sci.agriculture.beekeeping get bigger it is > >inevitable that people leave due to overload. Someone recently wrote > >directly to me asking if there was a UK mailing list because bee-l and > >sci.a.b were very USA oriented. > > hell, if you just want something local, join your local bee club. > i enjoy the international flavour of newsgroups & lists. Only the _very tiniest_ bit of offence taken ;-) And none intended! You clearly weren't aware that I joined bee-l and sci.ag.bee because I was the Secretary of the local bee club and editor of the newsletter. I still edit the newsletter. > we can learn so much from our nthn hemisphere cousins. And our southern ones! > besides are these two "sites" THAT big?? No, they're not. However, my concern and the concern of some others is that we may lose the very experts that we so value. I feel the question needs to be asked, because one day the answer _will_ be yes. > to use another analogy: it's a bit like television in a small country such as > new zealand. just increasing the number of channels doesn't necessarily make > for better television, or make it easier to know what to watch. u have to > learn to use the channel button wisely - but MOST IMPORTANTLY u have to know > when to use the OFF switch!!! Using the same analogy, on the plus side of splitting lists/newsgroups is the opportunity to tune in to all channels or only those which are of interest. E-mail is better than TV in this respect because I can tune in the all channels at once if I wish. > i'm relatively new to beekeeping and i know there is soooooooo much to learn. > i prefer a broader, more mixed insight into the bee, and for that reason 1 > list & 1 newsgroup is a great way to go. In truth, we're all new to beekeeping. I have only about 6 years, others have only about 60 years. Neither are enough and each have things they can teach the others. But us *real* newbies learn the most and have lots more to learn -- so we must try not to lose the 'old hands' and academics by boring them. Do _they_ want the broad view? I have subscribed to some other mailing lists where the weight of mail really _is_ too much. I have left them and I doubt I will return unless I have a serious need for an answer to a serious question. For me, bee-l is a __wonderful__ facility that I would fight like hell to preserve. It would be tragic if it became nothing more than an endless stream of standard first-timer questions and the richness we presently have was lost. > if you haven't already used your DELETE button on this, > thank you for reading ;-) Who, Me? -- As if I would ;-) ------------------------------------------------------------------ I had to check Jean-Marie's statement that I had only been on the list since 1994 (because I was on via Compu$erve first, then as apis) and it's true (Feb/March 94?) -- it seems so much longer. I agreee with J-M -- good subject line and good netiquette helps! For the record, I subscribe to Bee-l, socinsct and bombus; I can only easily read sci.a.b at the moment due to a newsgroup delivery problem. I do admit to sometimes hitting delete when there are bears in the subject line and when people in the States are looking for equipment in the States. I guess I'd better subscribe to BeeNet too. Best regards, -- Gordon Scott gordon@apis.demon.co.uk Hampshire, England. gordon@multitone.co.uk Beekeeper; Kendo 3rd Dan; Sometime sailor. The Basingstoke Beekeeper (newsletter) beekeeper@apis.demon.co.uk ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 Nov 1995 17:10:48 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Mike Killoran Subject: Re: Too much of a good thing? In-Reply-To: <9511030502.AA03239@ll.mit.edu> For those overwhelmed by email messages, you might try what I do. I get one email message a day from the BEE-L list that contains all the postings for the day. It's really nice - all the day's topics are listed at the start of the message. To do this for yourself, send the command: SET BEE-L DIGESTS to LISTSERV@UACSC2.ALBANY.EDU Now if I could only find a way to filter out particular individuals... Mike Killoran --------------- killoran@ll.mit.edu Embrace Entropy (617) 981-2667 (Lexington, MA USA) --------------- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 Nov 1995 16:44:12 CST Reply-To: nc7jr@sun.ars-grin.gov Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Bill Van Roekel Organization: NCRPIS Subject: Re Iowa Honey Producers Meeting I'm sorry this is so late, and although it is not bee biology, there are scientists involved. I will abbreviate. Iowa Honey Producers Annual Meeting Starlite Best Western Motel , Des Moines, Iowa Nov. 10 8:00Reg. $10 members $20 Family 8:45 Announcements 8:50 President's Welcome Paul Goossen 9:15 Dealing with Africanized Bees and Varroa in S. Texas Dr. Frank Eischen 11:00 Rpt from Ia. Apiary Bureau Bob Cox 11:00 Cooking w/honey entries due 1:30 De apibus semper dubutandum est("You can never tell with bees" from Winnie the Pooh) Leo Stattelman 2:15Cooking contest results 2:30 IHPA business meeting 3:30 Science Fair Project-Winter protection and survival of honey bee colonies. Carol Fassbinder 4:00 Local area crop reports 4:30 Refractometer Calibrating Session (bring your own refractometer) Bob Cox 7:00 pm Banquet - State fair awards Speaker Richard Adee " Inside Adee Honey Farms" Banquet is not included in registration fee(but I don't know how much it is ) Sat. Nov. 11 8:00 Visit vendors 9:00 The Politics of Beekeeping and how it affects honey prices Richard Adee 10:00 Break 10:15 Uncovering the history of Iowa Beekeeping Richard Trump 11:00 National Honey Board Larry Krause (producer member from Riverton, Wyoming) 12:00 lunch 1:00 Fumbling for answers to Cantaloupe Pollination Questions Dr. Frank Eischen 2:00 Honey cooking demo Mindy Okerberg 3:00 Adjurn You do not have to be a member to attend, but registration will be slightly higher. This annual meeting always has something for everyone interested in beekeeping, not the least of which is spending time with about 100 Iowa beekeepers. If you have the opportunity I highly recomend this meeting. Bill Van Roekel Central Iowa nc7jr@ars-grin.gov ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 Nov 1995 16:35:00 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jerry J Bromenshenk Subject: To split or not to split Maybe we ought to go back to the original description of the purpose of BEE-L I have this as it appears on Adam's FAQ "BEE-L is for the discusison of research and information concerning the biology of bees. This includes honey bees and other bees (and maybe even wasps). We communicate about sociobiology, behavior, ecology, adaptation/evolution, genetics, taxonomy, physiology, pollination, and flower nectar and pollen production of bees" I haven't seen much of that lately, which is why several of my counterparts are quietly signing-off, and why I am contemplating doing the same. Thanks Jerry Bromenshenk The University of Montana Missoula, MT 59812 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 Nov 1995 13:21:05 +0000 Reply-To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Phil N. Nash" Subject: SPLIT PLEASE Some of us have jobs other than in bees and do not have all winter to read a year full of messages concerning everything from broken jars to rotten combs. I have also been considering signing off, but cannot find the instructions. I support a split into five areas: Scientific Honey Production--Commercial Honey Procuction--Small Business/Hobby Legislation-Rules-International-Education General Chat, inc. buy/sell Phil N. Nash 110 S. Willow St. Suite 104 Kenai, AK 99611 Ph (907) 283-7514 Fx (907) 283-7429 E-Mail: nashpp@corcom.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 Nov 1995 17:58:00 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: BusyKnight Subject: SPLIT PLEASE >I have also been considering signing off, but cannot find the >instructions. Send the following message to: LISTSERV@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU Unsubscribe BEE-L Your Name In place of the word "unsubscribe", I believe that you may also be able to use the words, "signoff" or "quit" Hope this helps, BusyKnight busykngt@airmail.net ICBM INcode:N:32.45'W:96.45' Dallas, Republic of Texas Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is an absurd one. - Voltaire ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 Nov 1995 19:16:44 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Laura Downey Subject: Re: too much, etc. Liz, I agree with you. There is a lot of good information in BEE-L. Perhaps if the scientists would like to start another list, that would be best for them. There is a lot of technical information that they would like to share amongst themselves (and any others who choose to subscribe to their list) that hobbyists might not be interested in. If any scientists were interested in subscribing to the hobbyist list, they would have that option as well. I've learned a lot from reading the messages here. Its much more informative than any other source I have access to, except for maybe my Extension Agent at the local university. I knew of this mailing list from a "list of lists" that I had downloaded. When I initially read the description, I did not subscribe to it. It sounded as if it was a scientific/technical list, something that I am personally not interested in. Beekeeping is only a hobby for me. It wasn't until a friend told me that this list dealt with hobbyist information that I subscribed to it. I don't mind seeing a particular topic crop up here more than once. Mailing lists are not static. Subscribers come and go. The flow of the messages follows the flow of the subscribers. Also, answers change with new discoveries in the field of beekeeping. Its nice to have FAQ's available, but its also nice to allow someone to ask a question that might have been asked before they subscribed to the list (I've seen a complaint about this before.). Laura (corvi29@aol.com) ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 4 Nov 1995 15:18:50 PST Reply-To: m12345@cybernet.co.nz Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Mark Horsnell Subject: Re: Too much of a good thing? hi mike, who writes: >For those overwhelmed by email messages, you might try what I do. I get >one email message a day from the BEE-L list that contains all the >postings for the day. It's really nice - all the day's topics are listed >at the start of the message. > >To do this for yourself, send the command: > >SET BEE-L DIGESTS > >to > >LISTSERV@UACSC2.ALBANY.EDU > > >Now if I could only find a way to filter out particular individuals... good on u mike! that's the most sensible thing i've heard throughout this thread. regards, Mark Horsnell, Auckland, New Zealand Tel & Fax: 64-9-846-5644 E-mail: m12345@cybernet.co.nz ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 4 Nov 1995 15:28:12 PST Reply-To: m12345@cybernet.co.nz Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Mark Horsnell Subject: Re: Too much hi jerry, who writes: >One way of avoiding splitting the list might be to pause before hitting >the reply button. Should your answer go to the whole list or just to >the sender? Simple requests for basic information should go to the sender. sorry for hitting my reply button so soon but: here, here! Mark Horsnell, Auckland, New Zealand Tel & Fax: 64-9-846-5644 E-mail: m12345@cybernet.co.nz ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 4 Nov 1995 08:21:14 -0600 Reply-To: dicka@cuug.ab.ca Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Allen Dick Organization: The Beekeepers Subject: Periodic Posting Contents: 1.) Web access to BEE-l 2.) Email access to historical BEE-L discussions There are two ways now to read back issues of BEE-L. ~~~~~~~~ 1. ) BEE-l can presently be read on the Worldwide Web by pointing your brouser at http://www.internode.net:80/~allend/index.html. You can also still get there from http://www.cuug.ab.ca:8001/~dicka The National (USA) Honey Board Database is also there to brouse or download. Most logs going back to 1991 are available on my web sites. Some are missing. If you have web access, either by PPP and a graphical brouser or by lynx (a UNIX brouser available on many UNIX shell accounts by typing the command 'lynx'), this is the fast, simple way to go. 2.) For those with no web access, logs are also available quite conveniently by email from LISTSERV@uacsc2.albany.edu However they only go back to 1994. Due to the increasing size of recent logs and limited space on the LISTSERV, the older logs have been displaced. To have a BEE-L log emailed to you: ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Just send a message with no subject (subject lines are ignored) to LISTSERV@uacsc2.albany.edu with the message GET BEE-L LOGMMYY Where MM is the month (ie. 05 for May) and YY is the year (ie. 95 for 1995). Additional logs requested can be added on up to four more lines in your message. Be aware of the spacing of the words (No space in LOG9505, for example). Leave out any other text -- such as .signatures. Additional text - other than lines with additional commands -- will trigger harmless error messages from the LISTSERV. The log will arrive some time later in your mailbox. Warning: logs can be 650 K in size. Therefore please edit your contributions to BEE-L and leave off long sigs Regards Allen W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper VE6CFK Rural Route One, Swalwell, Alberta Canada T0M 1Y0 Honey. Bees, Art, & Futures ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 4 Nov 1995 11:34:06 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "James D. Satterfield" Subject: The Issue of Splitting Colleagues, I would make a few comments. I enjoy all types of discussions on the BEE-L, but I do use the delete button as I wish. I have seen little of the "scientific" communications related to other bees and wasps when compared to honeybees. My assumption is that the "scientists" are simply not choosing to post to BEE-L. Wish they would. I'd read what I chose to read then delete the rest. I really have no interest in subscribing to a list that is "moderated" if it is anything like the refereeing of the scientific journals. There ought to be room for all of us, and in the words of that famous American from Los Angeles, Rodney King, "Can't we all just get along?" So, my "scientist"-type colleagues, please don't leave BEE-L silently or openly. Post your comments and "papers" which I will read with delight...especially in the area of insect behavior and general biology of insects or mites. If you post an article with an attachment that is a graphic of some electrophoretic separation of an enzyme...well, I'll probably hit the delete button. I've seen enough of those separations over the years, at seminars I've attended, to last me my few remaining years! ;) Y'all hang in there! Jim ----------------------------------------------------- | James D.Satterfield | jsatt@gsu.edu or | | P.O. Box 2243 | biojdsx@gsusgi2.gsu.edu | | Decatur, GA 30031 USA | Telephone 404 378-8917 | ----------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 4 Nov 1995 18:31:34 +0100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jean-Marie Van Dyck Subject: Re: Spliting BEE-L ? No ! Hello All ! Jean-Marie Van Dyck here, french speaking from Belgium. On Fri, 3 Nov 1995 19:16:44 -0500 Laura wrote > Liz, I agree with you. There is a lot of good information in BEE-L. > Perhaps if the scientists would like to start another list, that would > be best for them. I wrote earlier : > In 1993 the "more scientific and serious list" SOCINSCT was created. Actually 268 recipients from 28 countries ... (I'm on) You can sign-on this list a few days ... Send the line "SUB SOCINSCT your name" to listserv@cnsibm.albany.edu You'll be informed : nothing on this list ... nothing interesting !! and Laura was thinking ... > There is a lot of technical information that they would like to > share amongst themselves (and any others who choose to subscribe to > their list) that hobbyists might not be interested in. (!!! absolutely no flame !!!)>> it's NOT TRUE !!! they are not sharing their original thoughts but after the papers are published : it's normal, it's their work and the net is the last way to give them ... I, I do the same for MY work which is not bees and beekeeping ? Do you understand ? > I've learned a lot from reading the messages here. I too Laura, in spite of my 40+ years of beekeeping : to remain open and enthusiast is really a good thing ... and if some scientists will quit ... they quit ... what can we do ? Un de perdu, dix de retrouve's ! I repeat with Liz : It seems to me OK as it is. I agree with the Jerry remarks which I had included in my request : > Please, a bit more of netiquette ! Don't let us forget the list is only made by its readers-writers Best Regards Jean-Marie Biochemist 1965 - Medical Scool of Namur 1967 - Net since 1990 Hobby-Beekeeper 1953 - Beekeeping Pr. 1962 - BEE-L 1992 - SOCINSCT 1993 In this time (53): 2-6 WBC production hives with the normal mean crop in Belgium (10-15 kg/hv) This year : 12 Dadant (12 frames) productions hives (mean 58 kg/hv) and 40 queen rearing WBC nucs Help to pollination. Buckfast bee rearing with some friends (Instr. Insem.) ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Jean-Marie Van Dyck Fax +32 81 72 42 72 B.P. 102 email : jmvandyck@quick.cc.fundp.ac.be B-5000 NAMUR(Belgium) Medical school - Biochemistry dept This => C'est ma facon de parler ! ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 4 Nov 1995 13:56:34 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Diane Cooper Subject: Honey and Bee History query - some gleanings In-Reply-To: Hello All, Some time ago I posted a query about toxic honey and bee history. Rick Fell, Conrad Berube and others replied. Thanks again. Since then I have collected a few items which might be of interest to some of you. To control corrections and updates plus not wanting to pollute everyone's mail, I have placed this little collection of gleanings at: http://www.ccn.cs.dal.ca/~ag151/bee_tidbits.html (c. 77K) (provided I have not made some typos here) If anyone is interested but can not access the file, I will gladly send it via e-mail. Warning it is bulk. If pressed for time, just use the subject heading Send me BEE TIDS Diane Cooper ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 4 Nov 1995 18:39:35 +0000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Keith Hooker Organization: Technology Management Ltd Subject: Re: To split or not to split If this list is to split then we must go back to the original description to see the purpose of BEE-L "BEE-L is for the discusison of research and information concerning the biology of bees. This includes honey bees and other bees (and maybe even wasps). We communicate about sociobiology, behavior, ecology, adaptation/evolution, genetics, taxonomy, physiology, pollination, and flower nectar and pollen production of bees" My interpretation of this is that this list was not intended for those who are beginners, novices, small scale and possibly some commercial beekeepers. My reason for joining was to develop my own scientific knowledge of honey bees and related insects as extremely valuable pollinating tools. Of late there has been little science content in the listing but a lot space taken up by those with little or no interest in this area at all. This discussion is yet another of the wastes of space. If any split is to be made then the hobby beekeepers should go and form their own area and leave this to those with an interest in the science of beekeeping. Keith Hooker Whitstable, Kent, UK khooker@tecman.demon.co.uk ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 4 Nov 1995 22:32:00 GMT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Andy Nachbaur Organization: WILD BEE'S BBS (209) 826-8107 LOS BANOS, CA Subject: Too much >Subject: Too much Hi All, A few rambling thoughts from a beekeeper. I don't want to see anyone dropping this list and wish more would join it. I don't feel that I am part of any special group then just being a beekeeper. I am proud that I have been a beekeeper 40+ years and have supported myself doing so the whole time. I read with the same interest the post for help from the new beekeepers just as intently as I do from the few commercial beekeepers and the academic or regulatory communities from every corner of the world. A few year's back when I was more active in the US national beekeeping organizations and the annual meeting became so large that the talks would be split up, so presentations for the commercial beekeeper's and some for the hobbyist were going on at the same time. I shocked my own contemporaries by attending the hobbyist meeting's. I had nothing to sell or any ax to grind, I just wanted to learn, I knew it all from the prospective of a lifetime of commercial beekeeping. I don't regret one minute of that time, none was wasted and I did learn much and I still am. I am insulted that any would change this group because their mail box is full or they don't like seeing the same question's asked over and over. It seems that some of those who complain seem to have not wasted much effort in answering some of these questions. If they would I would be more then happy to add their answer's to my Beekeeping FA system that other's with the same question could address as so many do now. I am sure that Wild Bee's automated Beekeeping FA system is pumping out as much e-mail as the total traffic to this list group saving much time and effort for those who are so busy. I have made repeated requests that some of you that are very gifted, qualified and respected in many areas of interest to beekeeper's help by adding or reworking some of the good but old and regional beekeeping FAQ's, few have responded or even bothered to comment. For this I am also disappointed. How busy we all are that some can not give about the same effort in improving communication beekeeper to beekeeper but find the time to..........well shall I politely say discourage new beekeepers from learning from their experience. I respond when I think I can add to the dialog, right or wrong.. I can take the heat of the hate mail and cherish the Love letter's, and I get plenty of both. Sorry to see so much contention between posters on the direction this list should take or has taken. Leaving the group is not the answer, leading it could bee, and I know some of you are gifted leader's in your fields and you could do more here with a little extra effort. It is true the world of electronic communication has changed and opened the door to many more then the privied few of a few years past. I am one of those and I think this is good for all who have interest in beekeeping and beekeeping in general and support it in every way I can. Including making this B-List group and the other group sci.agri.beekeeping available to anyone who can use a modem and and afford to dial to Wild Bee's BBS at 209-826-8107. I keep 1000 messages on line ready to read or be downloaded and read off line from each group. Few from the beekeeping academic or regulatory community ever have called. I know and understand that it's not a free call and some or most don't have modems to call outside lines, but don't believe this is true of all. If this group suffer's from anything it is not enough post's from the many talented people who are listed as readers, including those from the academic and scientific community who in my humble opinion should be extending their work to the public more not less for reason's if they don't understand they will in the future when request's for public monies fall on closed minds and deaf ears. The real political force in the beekeeping world is not invested with the public agencies or by commercial beekeepers, scientists, or regulators, it's the average beekeeper who is asking those repetitive questions that will direct the flow of public interest in the future and is doing so now. They are here because better technology has open the door to them, and they have every expectation that they can and will participate. I originally signed on to this list at my own personal expense as the majority of the new public users in the expectation's of learning more of what the academic, including government agencies's are doing.. I am not so naive to have thought that any of you were passing secret's about unpublished work, but I did hope that more of you would be using this group to post a lot more then what I have seen so far and to sound out other's including the beekeeping novice on what should or could be done in the future. Sadly I have been disappointed to date with those of you that do have things to say or access to good public information but have not bothered to post it. But I am not running away or quitting this list, I may get bumped off but I will be back one way or another for good or bad. What I will try as time and monies permit: When I see a question that is repetitive or beginning beekeeping I will try to e-mail that person a copy of Wild Bee's Beekeeping FAQ list and some will use it to request the information that some of you don't want seen in this list. I won't be able to do them all but I can do more. If I was a real ass I would just post the return Beekeeping FAQ's here and you all could read it again and again. For this I expect nothing, will accept nothing, but would like to see more of you adding to the list as I know you could and THANK those few who have without mention of their names but they are secure and know who they are. ttul Andy- To get the latest FAQ of Beekeeping Information via e-mail post in e-mail to: wildbees.faq@beenet.com (c)Permission to reproduce, granted. Opinions are not necessarily fact. --- ~ QMPro 1.53 ~ Wild Bee's BBS, a HONEY of a BBS (209) 826-8107 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 4 Nov 1995 20:17:03 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: BusyKnight Subject: Beeswax Candle MOLDS I'd appreciate anyone's comments about how to make various candle molds for use in pouring beeswax candles. I'm interested in finding out techniques, materials to use, moulding material and also info on wick material to use. Please include any sources that you may know also. Thanks. BusyKnight busykngt@airmail.net ICBM INcode:N:32.45'W:96.45' Dallas, Republic of Texas Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is an absurd one. - Voltaire ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 5 Nov 1995 00:14:15 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: David Morris Subject: To Split or not to Split It is too bad that a discussion on splits on a beekeeping net is not about creating nucs. The popularity of this list shows that hobbyist and commercial beekeepers need a bulletin board they can call their own. We non-scientists have intruded and some of us have forgotten some of our manners. But since we have disovered this board, I imagine the only practical resolution for the scientists would be for them to form another list. In time, we would find that list also, but hopefully, we would respect their needs and listen only. My only complaint is with some of the trivial questions asked. I urge these posters to avail themselves of local associations and technical advisors (extension agents, etc), to read book or two, and get a subscription to a national journal. You can learn so much, so quickly, from talking to more experienced beekeepers than you can from e-mail. Cheers, David Morris Laurel, MD, USA ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 4 Nov 1995 21:32:07 -0800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Paul Cronshaw, D.C." Subject: Re: too much, etc. >> I have been on bee-line without cease for 2-3 years so far. I have >> not seen any problems that were bad enough to make any changes to >> the list worthwhile. It seems OK to me as it is. Liz Day >> LDAY@indy.net Indianapolis, Indiana, central USA > Allen Dick responded: >Okay, thanks Liz. > >I think I may start a second list tho' because we are losing the >scientists. They just silently unsubscribe. >Regards > Allen, Here is my 2 cents worth... I am a hobbyist beekeeper. I am also the manager of the CHIRO-LIST, and online chiropractic discussion group. A number of chiropractors who subscribed to my list of over 350 people decided that there was too much chatter and dribble, and not enough science, so they created the CHIROSCI-LIST, a moderated list. Now we have two chiropractic discussion lists on the NET, one for the "chatter" and one for the "scientists". There are many duplicate postings and subscribers belonging to both lists. Frankly, and I speak from experience, I feel it is a waste of bandwidth and NET resources. Keep everything under one unmoderated list and things will run a lot better, IMHO. Are you thinking of creating a BEESCI-LIST? Why? ||----------------------------------------------------------------------|| || Paul M. Cronshaw D.C. || || paulc@silcom.com Cyberspace chiropractor drpablo@aol.com || || Voice = (805) 965-9801 Fax = (805) 564-6773 || || Milpas Chiropractic 816 N. Milpas St. Santa Barbara CA 93103 || || >>Ask me how to subscribe to the Chiropractic Mailing List << || ||----------------------------------------------------------------------|| ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 4 Nov 1995 21:59:26 -0800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jim Osborn Subject: Re: Too much Jerry J Bromenshenk raises an excellent point: >Should your answer go to the whole list or just to the sender? >Simple requests for basic information should go to the sender. >... >These questions are important to the requester, but do all 600+ of us >need to see 5-20 answers to the same question? All the other lists I read have Reply-To: point to the message sender, not the whole list. Not only does it cut down inadvertant broadcasts, but it's easier: personal reply, involving a unique address, is automatic, while general list reply, which now requires some effort, uses a fixed, easily-memorized address. Sorry, Jerry; I thought this might rate consideration of the whole list. :) My vote would be to point Reply-To: to the originator. jimo@eskimo.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 4 Nov 1995 23:14:19 -0600 Reply-To: dicka@cuug.ab.ca Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Allen Dick Organization: The Beekeepers Subject: The new bee list There are still a lot of posts to bee-l regarding the formation of a new bee list. Perhaps I should point out that it is really not a matter for public (on list) discussion at this point. The original post was intended to bring constructive comments *privately* by email to the writer, and to obtain an idea of interest - not disrupt the business of the list with everyone's ideas as to whether my private business is appropriate or not. I apologise to the list for the fact that many felt it necessary to bother the list with a pointless debate on a matter that is out of their hands. Just for the record: anyone who wishes may or may not form his or her own list and decide whether it is open or closed to the public, moderated or not, and decide on the subjects suitable for discussion on it. A number of us have decided to form at least one new list. Whether or not this comes about soon depends on whether or not a home can be found for a reasonable cost. How the list(s) develop depends on how much effort someone(s) is willing to devote the time required to moderate. It is likely that anyone who wishes to will be able to read it. It will be advertised here when appropriate. I am sure that BEE-L will continue on and that many will read both lists. I hope that now bee-l will return to discussing bees, wasps, etc. Regards Allen W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper VE6CFK Rural Route One, Swalwell, Alberta Canada T0M 1Y0 Honey. Bees, Art, & Futures ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 5 Nov 1995 02:11:32 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Daniel J. Salemson" Subject: The Issue of Splitting I have found this debate over whether to split the BEE-L to be very interesting. As a hobbiest, I have learned a great deal over the past half year from the more experienced members. Ironically, some of the same people who have fretted about the declining numbers of beekeepers in America -- and the need to encourage interest -- are complaining now about the "takeover" of the list by the non-professionals. It will be a shame if the two sides can't coexist on one list. As a matter of practicality, however, those who would prefer a more scientific discussion will probably need to form a moderated list. Regardless of its original mission, BEE-L has firmly become a general discussion list for beekeeping. Ah, but we could be a happy hive . . . . Dan Salemson Raleigh, North Carolina USA ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 5 Nov 1995 08:45:24 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: BusyKnight Subject: Who's Leaving? By my calculations: three weeks ago, there were 496 subscribers to bee-l and today there are 483. So a 'net' of 13 folks have dropped off. This represents a decline of only 2.6% of the total list. And while I would not like to think anyone has left due to hobbiest's "chatter," I know, probably a few have. So be it! I likewise do not think creating a 'new' list will accomplish much. Unless of course its moderated (controlled). In which case, I'm interested, how much would it pay? And do I get to refelect only MY interests, concerns, attitudes, etc... BusyKnight busykngt@airmail.net ICBM INcode:N:32.45'W:96.45' Dallas, Republic of Texas Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is an absurd one. - Voltaire ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 5 Nov 1995 12:51:08 -0800 Reply-To: uc779@freenet.victoria.bc.ca Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Conrad A. Berube" Subject: OBSCENE MESSAGES #2 Comments: To: aa001@vifa1.freenet.victoria.bc.ca, hq@vifa1.freenet.victoria.bc.ca, bugnet@insects.ummz.lsa.umich.edu, Pestcon-L@vaxa.weeg.uiowa.edu, PARAHYM@NHM.AC.UK To all concerned, I just received word from one of the system administrators that whoever has been tampering with my account had slipped a message into my signature file (which has since been removed) that automatically appended to any mail I sent out. So please disregard the "kick me" message that may have appeared in my previous post-- although the computer trick was clever I hope you all realize that I'd be capable of more imaginative verse ;-). I'm attempting to be more amused than annoyed by all this but do apologize to anyone who has received offensive postings as a result. Is school out somewhere and the kiddies are playing on the net? To reiterate my previous notice: Apparently my e-mail account has been breached and someone has been accessing my mail and making obscene replies thereto-- if this has occurred with any postings on this discussion group please accept my apologies and forward the offensive messages to hq@freenet.victoria.bc.ca (administrative headquarters of the Victoria Freenet) or aa001.freenet.victoria.bc.ca (system administrator) so that the hacker may be tracked. Thank you. '\ /` ()() \/\ Conrad Berube ____ /`\ \\ ISLAND CROP MANAGEMENT / ; ; /` `\/'\\ _____________ 1326 Franklin Terrace ` /` `' \`-===========/~~\ Victoria, B.C. V8S 1C7 \ \ -^\ /\____/^^^~> (604)480-0223; fax: (604)656-8922 |/ '\ '\~~~~~~~~ email: uc779@freenet.victoria.bc.ca '\ '\ \__\__ `` `` ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 5 Nov 1995 17:38:25 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Laura Downey Subject: Re: Too much RE: andy.nachbaur@beenet.com Andy, Well spoken! Thank you for pointing out that we can _all_ learn from each other, hobbyist, commercial, and scientist alike. There is absolutely _no_ one who knows everything - there's always something new to be learned. As many have said, it is quite easy to hit the delete key if a message in the list comes through that one is not interested in. I have done this on occasion myself. Sometimes I must delete messages due to lack of time, sometimes lack of interest in the particular topic. Sometimes, later, I wonder if I have missed reading something important that I deleted. I have not seen much posting from the scientists on the list. Perhaps, instead of contemplating leaving the list, they would post something. Most likely, other scientists would reply and a thread would be started. Perhaps some hobbyists would reply as well. We can all communicate together! Laura Downey (corvi29@aol.com) ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 5 Nov 1995 07:43:23 -0800 Reply-To: uc779@freenet.victoria.bc.ca Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Conrad A. Berube" Subject: SECURITY BREACH, OBSCENE MESSAGES Comments: To: entomo-l@UOGUELPH.ca, Pestcon-L@vaxa.weeg.uiowa.edu Apparently my e-mail account has been breached and someone has been receiving my mail and making obscene replies thereto-- if this has occurred with any postings on this discussion group please accept my SINCERE APOLOGIES and forward these messages to hq@freenet.victoria.bc.ca or aa001.freenet.victoria.bc.ca so that the hacker may be tracked. Thank you. Please note the "from: " field on any postings that appear to originate from me. '\ /` ()() \/\ Conrad Berube ____ /`\ \\ ISLAND CROP MANAGEMENT / ; ; /` `\/'\\ _____________ 1326 Franklin Terrace ` /` `' \`-===========/~~\ Victoria, B.C. V8S 1C7 \ \ -^\ /\____/^^^~> (604)480-0223; fax: (604)656-8922 |/ '\ '\~~~~~~~~ email: uc779@freenet.victoria.bc.ca '\ '\ \__\__ `` `` -- I'm a wiener .. Short and stout. Kick me in the balls! And hear me SHOUT!!! ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 Nov 1995 08:00:32 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "James D. Satterfield" Subject: Overwintering Top Bar Hives (TBH's) I'm going into my first winter with nine 20-frame TBH's and two 5-frame TBH nucs. I had a poor honeyflow in the spring in this area, about 40 mi N of Atlanta, GA , SE USA, but the goldenrod flow seemed to be good. I also fed the 9 TBH's each 1/2 gal of 50/50 sucrose. Weather in the winter at this location often gives some days when the bees may fly briefly; some periods of daily highs in the 30'sF. Lows often will be in the teensF but rarely below 0F. We may have some snow on the ground for a few days, but not much of significance. In some correspondence with Paul Magnuson, to whom I am eternally indebted for starting me in TBH's, he said that he had put a newspaper curtain in the hive to reduce the volume and piled pesticide-free cloth sacks on top of the bars. If any of you reading this note are overwintering TBH's in any climate similar to mine, I'd enjoy hearing from you. I have tried a protocol with my hives which goes from doing nothing to the extreme of closing entrance holes (normally seven 1 inch holes in one end) to three holes, putting a paper curtain in to cut the volume by about 1/3, then putting a 1/2 inch sheet of insulating foam on top. Most of the hives have 1 inch thick wood sides and 1/4 inch hardboard bottoms. In the winter, the hives will be sunlit on sunny days...ie, not shielded by evergreens, etc., but will be exposed to prevailing winds. I don't have enough hives (yet!) to really do the experimentation that I would like. My "gut" feeling is to simply do nothing and to let the hives cool down as they will which would probably result in less food consumption and less of a problem with moisture inside the hive. If you have any suggestions, I would be happy to get them. You can send them to me directly if you wish to avoid clutter for some BEE-L members; however, if your response should be of interest to others...post to all, of course. Many thanks for all of your help in the past. Cordially yours, Jim ----------------------------------------------------- | James D.Satterfield | jsatt@gsu.edu or | | P.O. Box 2243 | biojdsx@gsusgi2.gsu.edu | | Decatur, GA 30031 USA | Telephone 404 378-8917 | ----------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 Nov 1995 07:52:02 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Carl H. Hovermale" Subject: Re: too much, etc. In-Reply-To: I agree with paul. there is no excuse to split. if we split then a good portion will subscribe to both. there is enough room in this group for academians, producers and hobbiests carl ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 Nov 1995 18:51:50 +0000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Stefano Calvillo Comments: To: BEE-L%ALBNYVM1.BITNET@vm.cnuce.cnr.it subscribe =A7=A7=A7 (+ +) ---------------=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3Do000=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D(_)=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D000o= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D-------------- Stefano Calvillo Istituto per le Tecnologie Didattiche Consiglio Nazionale delle Ricerche via De Marini 6, tel +39 10 6475 344 Torre di Francia fax +39 10 6475 300 16149 Genova - ITALY e-mail: calvillo@itd.ge.cnr.it ----------------=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D---------------- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 Nov 1995 18:42:50 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Greg Holley Subject: Re: Book list Please send me the book list. Thanks, Greg Holley 595 Old Carriage Rd Glade Hill, VA 24092 GM319@aol.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 Nov 1995 18:42:20 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jerry J Bromenshenk Subject: Bee sting immunity in people and skunks Like several recent postings, the split/splitless debate seems to have dominated the discussion, when the original request was for people to contact Allen. In an attempt to start a different thread, I'd like to go back to the postings about people and bee allergies and skunks and bee predation. A good discussion of allergies occurs in Justen Schmidt's chapter (no. 27) in the most recent version of the Hive and the Honey Bee. I agree with most of what Justin says, but differ on a couple of points. To the best of our knowledge, no one starts out allergic to bee stings, that develops after one or more stings. Most people seem to go one way or the other, either you get less sensitive or more sensitive. Lots of references will explain this to you. The more interesting aspects to me are the differences seen in individual responses and the work done by one of our Missoula allergists, Dr. Bell, who has some evidence that allergies to bees tend to be more common in the family members of beekeepers than in the general population (even if the family members do not work with the bees). In my own case, I am allergic to just about everything except bee stings. As a child growing up on a farm, I couldn't drive past a green alfalfa field without wheezing. Took five years of desensitizing shots (yep, I was one of the earliest test cases for this procedure back in the 50's) before I became halfway functional. However, after 20 years of bee stings, I rarely swell, even if stung on the wrists or eyelid - worst case is a slightly tired looking eye. Most stings do not even hurt, pain ranges from a slight prick to nothing (especially in my forearms), although a direct hit on a nerve ending still hurts like heck. On the other extreme is one of my students who I will call R.A. R.A. is a young woman who has worked for me for three years. She is very gentle with the bees and likes to work with them. After 3 or 4 stings spread across an entire summer, R.A. developed one of the worst cases of sensitivity to bee stings that Dr. Bell had seen (at least as evidenced by the skin test). She wanted to keep working bees, so last winter, she took the whole venom de-sensitizing shots. This spring, she went back to work. She keeps an adrenaline kit handy, but hasn't had to use it. The reason I mention this is that many doctors and even Justin recommend not getting the shots. Among my colleagues, one who does field work in remote areas also became hypersensitive, took the shots, and is now okay, although he needs occassional booster shots. On the other hand, one of our beekeepers has two teenagers, both became allergic, both got the shots, one can work bees, the other can't. The reason for this lengthy discourse is to comment on the people who are allergic but work bees with an adrenaline kit close at hand. Personally, having seen what a severe reaction can do and how fast (and I have experienced them personally, not from bee stings, but from other allergies), I would not take the risk. I don't enjoy bees so much that I would risk my life. On the other hand, I think anyone who wants to work around bees or to enjoy the out-of-doors without fears of stinging insects and who is allergic should seriously consider the de-sensitizing shots. For me, the peace of mind (and the lack of allergy symptoms) is well worth the bother and the expense. And yes, they are expensive, in part because so few people get them (the old supply and demand equation). So what does this have to do with skunks? Yep, here in Montana, skunks eat bees. I have seen them do it, have even been known to re-locate, and once dispatched one (for research purposes, you understand). Liz, they aren't blinded nor is there any evidence that they can't smell with a nose full of stingers. Do they get stung? Yes!! Lots of stings, and not just externally, you can find stingers in the mouth and throat and I suspect even farther down the G.I. tract. Doesn't seem to bother them much. They come each night to the same hives, scratch at the entrances, wait till the bees flood out, and start licking them up. Looks like when things get really hot and heavy they move over to the next hive. But maybe they just decide to try some other bees. Worst part is that every evening just about dusk you can count on your skunk to repeat the process. If left unchecked, I have seen a skunk decimate strong hives. You can always tell which are the favorites, scratches on the front of the hive, generally digging in the dirt just in front of the hive, fecal pellets full of bees. Now for the academic question. Are these skunks naturally resistant to bee stings, or do they like bees so much that they keep eating them. If a skunk becomes hypersensitive, it probably dies in the bushes. If the skunk goes the other way, well things should just get better. However, even with my high degree of immunity, bees just don't seem that tasty, but then again, I'm not a skunk. The question is: Why don't bee stings bother skunks? (or at least these stings don't cause enough of a problem to deter them from eating bees) If skunks are naturally resistant to bee stings, I don't remember seeing any data to support this nor any explaination of a mechanism. If skunks are borne resistant to bee stings, could that knowledge bee used to protect humans? Anyway, if anyone has any factual information concerning this issue, I'd like to know about it. You can post your comments to me, or to the list if you have an answer. Thanks Jerry J. Bromenshenk The University of Montana jjbmail@selway.umt.edu P.S. After 24 years of bee research, I guess I have to confess to being one of those academics lurking on this server. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 Nov 1995 09:01:15 +0000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Rees, Simon" Subject: Re: Bee sting immunity in people and skunks Jerry & you all, I'm afraid I don't have any factual information on skunk stings, but would like to know why woodpeckers don't get driven away from the hive by bee-stings. I haven't, er, culled one for research purposes yet, so can't report on whether they get stung. Incidentally, the same question goes for mice. Any ideas? Answers to me, if you like, & I'll collate & post. Simon simon.rees@mcl.co.uk manservant to the big black queen & her box of amazons - Twickenham, UK, one hive. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 Nov 1995 10:07:47 +0100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Francoise Giroud Subject: Re: Book list I am interested by your book list. Please could you send me the list. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Francoise GIROUD Equipe RFMQ (TIMc-IMAG) Institut Albert Bonniot - Universite Joseph Fourier Faculte de Medecine - Domaine de la Merci 38706 - La Tronche Cedex - France Tel (33) 76 54 94 64 Fax (33) 76 54 95 49 e.mail Francoise.Giroud@imag.fr ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 Nov 1995 07:57:59 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Aaron Morris Subject: Is that horse moving again?!? I've been away from my desk since last Thursday, so I missed the discussion about 'splitting' BEE-L. All I can say is, history repeats itself. For all the gory details send mail to: LISTSERV@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU with a single line in the body of the mail that reads: GET BEE-L LOG9403 and read everything posted about beating a dead horse. Everything said since last Thursday about splits of this (or any) list was said in April '94 and it was said then with more flair and gusto! Arguments for splitting were basically along the lines of reaching more of the masses, versus arguments against splitting which were along the lines that the quality of a top notch mailing list will go downhill due to the increased traffic. I don't care to resurrect the beaten, dead horse, but I feel somewhat vindicated in my then rather strongly voiced concerns about the quality of the discourse on this list. At the time the feelings were that the simple 'beekeeping' discussion would migrate to sci.ag.bees and the loftier discussion would stay on BEE-L. Unfortunately the result of the split has been that both discussion lists have become 'chatty' and most of the 'leading edge' discussion has ceased or gone elsewhere (although I know not where). Gone are the Peter Kevans and Keith Delaplanes, and in jeopardy are a lot of the more knowledgeable posters who have realized that this forum is not what it used to be. This is not to say that this list is no longer useful, nor is it intended to start a war of flames to rival the great Chicago fire. It is merely acknowledging that the level of discourse on this list has undeniably declined. Prior to the split of BEE-L, the list agreed that proper use of the "Subject:" header should be sufficient to keep the list functioning well. A header of "Science" would be a sentinel to the researchers and a subject heading of "Beekeeping" would be a sentinel to those who reside outside of the ivory tower. Unfortunately, this protocol was not followed (much like including your geographic location in your signature), sci.ag.bees was split off, the foretold decline of BEE-L has come about, the cross posting to both list has come to be, subscribers have come and gone, and everything old is new again. I, like others, have considered leaving this list as the noise to content ratio grows. I find that my inclination to respond is directly proportional to the new things I learn from this list and that my answer to more and more questions is "RTFM - Read Text FIRST Man!". I have thought this often when contemplating composing text for the FAQ. Does this list exist because subscribers want to facilitate learning about bees or does it exist because subscribers are enamored to the medium and don't care to pay dues by reading texts when they are able to engage in social discourse? Rather than jointly compose a new text on keeping bees, perhaps the FAQ should be a reference to chapter and verse in a good text (perhaps _T_H_a_t_H_) and discourse should be reserved for information not available in textbooks. Perhaps this would work for a while, until the subscriptions turn over and there is a new crop of newbies and a decreasing number of veterans and repeat questions will be new for the majority of subscribers. Ultimately the burden of wading through the content of this list falls on the subscriber. The longer one stays on this list and the longer one stays in beekeeping, the less information will be new and the less will be the return on the investment of time spent separating the wheat from the chaff. It is always a loss when a veteran beekeeper leaves the list and the entire list suffers if/when that happens. And just when I've decided that the payback is no longer there, I'll come across some pure discourse such as the memories of a senior beekeeper who has more beekeeping in his little finger than I'll ever have, and I'm glad that this forum exists! So, split the list? I think not. Will BEE-L ever return to its golden days? Again, I think not. Is it time to bail out? No. Will better homework and use of "Subject:" headers and locations in signatures and SET BEE-L DIGEST and reading the FAQ FIRST, and better netiquette improve this forum? You bet it will! Nobody asked, but that's my 2 cents worth. Aaron Morris Charter member of BEE-L ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 Nov 1995 13:37:12 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Bill Mares Subject: Is that horse moving again?!? -Reply I've been keeping bees for 20 years but have been on the list for only one week. Your comments were impressive and compelling. Thanks, bill mares ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 Nov 1995 10:02:00 -0800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Kerry Clark of AGF 784-2225 fax (604) 784 2299" Subject: re skunks and bee stings Jerry Bromenschenk remarked about the apparent lack of susceptibility of skunks to stings (from an allergy perspective). If skunks really get as many stings as is supposed, there must indeed be some great difference in susceptibility. Justin Schmidt's article in Hive and Honey Bee indicates a median lethal dose (from a direct toxic effect, rather than an allergic reaction) for humans, as 19 stings per kilogram body weight. The lethal dose for a skunk at that rate, would be only 50 stings or so (2 kg skunk?). I've not had any direct experience with skunks and bees. Beekeepers have told me they had some success putting cayenne pepper in the depression skunks are said to make, in front of the hive (presumably to let them settle down and protect their underparts from stings?). Others have used 2 inch mesh wire to build a barrier to keep the skunks from reaching the entrance. Strychnine in eggs was used in the past to kill skunks in apiaries, but is no longer available. Are bee stings as painful to skunks as they are to humans? I've heard from people who have observed bears in apparent considerable pain as they consumed combs from a hive they knocked over, even some bears who were driven away from hives by bees..could skunks be that different? The "beekeeper's family" hypersensitivity has been observed and studied several times. There was some research done in Alberta, on 10 year's or more ago (Dr. Day). I gathered that the problem was thought to arise from exposure to airborne bee allergens (including dried venom) (inducing IgE antibodies) rather than sting exposure (which induce IgG antibodies). It seemed adviseable for beekeepers to avoid exposing their family (for example by keeping bee gloves or suits with other family clothing) to such allerg, and that a few stings per year could be seen as a benefit, in avoiding more severe reactions. Schmidt's interpretation seems different, and he gives the best "predictive index" for low (beekeeper type) reaction to stings, as a yearly exposure to 50 or more stings. That's a lot for a non-beekeeper. One human reaction I haven't seen a good explanation for, is the apparently instant shift from tolerant (as from many years of beekeeping) to susceptible, and back again. I've heard of this happening spontaneously, and a couple of years ago, being induced by recent use of the ibuprophin-type pain medication. Schmidt refers to something similar happening in some patients who had no serious sting reactions, until after surgery or other medical stress. I don't see how the conventional IgE:IgG concept could explain such reactions. To shift the topic a bit: some recent work involving indoor bee wintering buildings (involves handling of dead bees in spring) which would be equally applicable to beekeeper handling of frames of hives where the colony has died overwnter, indicates some very high levels of fungal spores, including some species which could be a serious concern for people exposed to them at these concentrations. I don't know of any documented human cases, but if someone has a respiratory susceptibility, be aware of the possible risk. Kerry Clark, Apiculture Specialist B.C. Ministry of Agriculture 1201 103 Ave Dawson Creek B.C. V1G 4J2 CANADA Tel (604) 784-2225 fax (604) 784-2299 INTERNET KCLARK@GALAXY.GOV.BC.CA ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 Nov 1995 18:11:16 -0500 Reply-To: Ian Stuart McLean Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ian Stuart McLean Subject: Re: Too much - UK involvement in Bee-L? >Hi All, My personal view is against splitting. I have visited both Sci.Agri.beekeeping and Bee-L and found Bee-L more interesting. Having found the delete button, I can use it. Andy asks about more participation from those working in Government circles. As one of the UK Regional Bee Inspectors, whose advent was discussed briefly earlier this year, I'm on privately at present but since we work as home based outstations from our Unit, Modem contact is planned to supplement our present phone / Fax links. My work remit includes education in disease control and Spray poisoning liaison, primarily to my UK Region. We plan our own FAQ files indeed I'll be writing some this winter, would they be of benefit to Bee-L users? The spread of varroosis Northwards and its current devastating effect in the South of the UK where it has been established for a few years are the hot topics in the UK. Would Bee-L subscribers welcome a UK Newsletter? I'll answer any queries, direct on a mperson to person basis. Yours Ian. ianmac@lancsbk.win-uk.net - Northern Regional Bee Inspector, UK - Bee Curious phone/fax 01704 822831 snailmail 'Asland' Flash Lane, Rufford, Ormskirk, Lancs, L40 1SW - UK. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 9 Nov 1995 01:47:07 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Dave D. Cawley" Subject: Re: too much, etc. I like BEE-L just the way it is. It gives a good mix of the hobbyist (me), professional and scientific camps. It's nice to hear from the scientists when we hear rumours of the "miracle cures". Likewise it's good to hear that the "big" guys have the same problems poor little me has. As for the fellow how said the scientists should go form their own list...WHAT THE HELL DO YOU THINK THIS IS?!?!? You might read the headers on your mail, the list is described as for the "discussion of bee biology". ***YOU*** my friend are on the list started by the *SCIENTISTS*, specifically the late Edward Southwick (who gave me the address and some good advice, I'm forever indebted to him) a *BEE RESEARCHER* at SUNY Brockport. If you want exclusively non-science related stuff, then go to alt.agriculture.beekeeping, what do you think we went thru the hassle of creating it for? ******************************************************************************** Dave D. Cawley | Only the economic organization is capable of setting University of Scranton | on foot a true political party of labor, and thus Scranton, Pennsylvania | raise a bulwork against the power of capital. ddc1@jaguar.uofs.edu | -Karl Marx ******************************************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 9 Nov 1995 01:51:57 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Dave D. Cawley" Subject: Re: Too much of a good thing? Instead of splitting, how about moderation, that would quickly cut down the non-scientific type questions. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Dave D. Cawley | The information on the Internet is only University Of Scranton | interesting to people who are interested Scranton, Pennsylvania | in it. dave@scranton.com | -Scranton Tomorrow Spokeswoman ddc1@jaguar.uofs.edu | refusing invitation to Internet Cafe's opening ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 9 Nov 1995 09:14:24 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Fr. James Cassidy O.S.B." Subject: A request for info on mites Hoping to help steer the discussion away from whether or not the list should be split, I would like to pose a question. As a beekeeper and an academic--an historian with an interest in history of science and history of biology--I was wondering the other day where the present problem we experience in the USA with mites came from. It seems to me that it must be a problem related evolution and ecology; most of the other bee diseases, such as the foulbroods, seem to have been such. I also know that one of the primary foci for the eventual solution of the problem is evolutionary in principle--the development of more resistant bees. But I was away from beekeeping during the years that the problems with the mites emerged, and so only came back into it knowing that they were serious problems, but not really aware of where they had come from. Has anyone written on this? Can anyone recommend a good article or two? Thanks. James Cassidy Saint Anselm College jcassidy@hawk.anselm.edu ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 9 Nov 1995 11:45:57 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Aaron Morris Subject: Origin and migration of Varroa jacobsoni (Caveat Emptor!) I will attempt to answer Fr. Cassidy's question concerning the migration of Varroa jacobsoni to the western world BASED ON MEMORY, as I do not have texts here in my office. DISCLAIMER: MY MEMORY HAS BEEN KNOWN TO BE FAULTY!!! What I am about to say is close to the mark, but by no means should be taken as undisputed fact. For the real information go to _New_Perspectives_on_Varroa_ which is available from IBRA. Varroa jacobsoni was originally a parasite whose host was Apis cerana (the Asian honeybee). The pupae stage of Apis c. is a few days (one or two? two or three?) shorter than that of Apis mellifera, and it is the shorter pupae stage that keeps Varroa in check in colonies of Apis cerana. Varroa doesn't have as much time to mature and reproduce within a capped cell of Apis c. and hence is not as damaging to Apis c as Apis m. With the few extra days of incubation in Apis m. the Varroa mites reach maturity and reproduce within a cell before the bee emerges, hence the scales are tipped in favor of the mites within a colony of Apis m. Enter migratory beekeepers, who imported hives of Apis m. into Varroa's indigenous area. Unbeknownst to the beekeepers, varroa got a foothold in the imported hives and hitched a ride back to from whence they came (I believe Russia). Again note how bad my memory is here! I mean, Asia is the largest continent in the world and the former Soviet Union was the largest conglomerate(?) and Russia remains the largest country and a subset of Asia, so this description is poor at best. But I believe the migration continued to the eastern Soviet Union, so the mites made it to Europe. I'm not sure how the mites made it from Europe to the States (perhaps they cashed in their frequent flyer miles), but I would guess that it was the same sort of mechanism (imported on the backs of bees). I will not even attempt to add dates to this sophomoric post, other than to say that Varroa was first documented in the States in early/mid 1980s and first documented in my hives in 1989 (I am only positive of this last fact). To the best of my knowledge, varroa is now endemic throughout the continental world with the exception of islands (Hawaii and New Zealand) to name two. I'm not sure about Australia or Iceland or Madagascar or .... Anyway, that's my comic book version of the migration of varroa and a strong case for a good text versus a bad post. The few pieces of fact can serve as starting points for research to confirm. I will mail a 12 oz jar of honey anywhere in the world to the person who can identify the most errors in the post above with documented references to the correct facts. Perhaps THAT will bring science back to this forum! Aaron Morris Having fun with this list! Hobby beekeeper in upstate New York (21 miles north of Albany) Vice President, Southern Adirondack Beekeepers' Association ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 9 Nov 1995 18:53:59 +0000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Gordon Scott Subject: Re: Is that horse moving again?!? In-Reply-To: <951108.075806.EST.SYSAM@cnsibm.albany.edu> On Wed, 8 Nov 1995, Aaron Morris wrote: > .... the list agreed that > proper use of the "Subject:" header should be sufficient to keep the > list functioning well. A header of "Science" would be a sentinel to the > researchers and a subject heading of "Beekeeping" would be a sentinel to > those who reside outside of the ivory tower. Unfortunately, this > protocol was not followed (much like including your geographic location > in your signature).... I've been on the list about 18 months and I don't think I've ever seen that specific suggestion posted -- there are a number of other keywords that could also be useful, e.g. Science: Varroa, Beekeeping: Swarms and so on. Could we add a guideline like this into the faq for bee-l/sci.ag.b (and maybe socinsct etc.), perhaps together with the *intended* uses of the venues? This should help to guide people gently in the 'right' direction. Does the listserver send (or offer) the faq when one subscribes? If not, could it? As the person whom I think _really_ triggered that long discussion (Allen Dick 'admitted guilt', but he was responding to a post of mine at the time), can I also offer my apologies for the resulting clutter, although I don't apologise for my concern. I must have _just_ missed the 1994 discussions, although I do remember some odd postings about 'that dead horse'. Regards, -- Gordon Scott gordon@apis.demon.co.uk Hampshire, England. gordon@multitone.co.uk Beekeeper; Kendo 3rd Dan; Sometime sailor. The Basingstoke Beekeeper (newsletter) beekeeper@apis.demon.co.uk ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 9 Nov 1995 15:01:39 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Fr. James Cassidy O.S.B." Subject: Re: Origin and migration, etc In-Reply-To: <951109.114933.EST.SYSAM@cnsibm.albany.edu> To Arron Morris, in upstate New York Thanks for the introductory info. James Cassidy Saint Anselm College jcassidy@hawk.anselm.edu ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 10 Nov 1995 08:52:22 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: David Eyre Subject: Re: Mites! >I will attempt to answer Fr. Cassidy's question concerning the >migration of Varroa jacobsoni to the western world BASED ON MEMORY, as I Your answer to Fr. James had one glaring omission, but I won't claim the honey having enough of my own. Mites i.e. plural. Honey bee tracheal mite you missed, I know you can't see it, and "out of sight, out of mind". Htm is an insidious killer, just as virrulent as Varroa. HTM was first discovered on the Isle of Wight approx. 1922 where it devastated the U.K. Now into Europe and Florida in the 1980's? Spreading rapidly by migrating and careless beekeepers, it is spreading North into Ontario and other Provinces. Ontario now has a breeding program to produce HTM resistant Queens, by requeening with new stock you can forget that problem. Anyone wishing to discuss the latter point please e-mail me direct. ********************************************************* * David J. Eyre CEO 9 Progress Drive, Unit 2, * * The Beeworks Orillia, Ont, Canada, L3V 6H1* * beeworks@muskoka.net (705) 326 7171 * * http.//www.muskoka.net/~beeworks * ********************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 10 Nov 1995 08:52:30 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: David Eyre Subject: Re: re skunks > I've not had any direct experience with skunks and bees. Beekeepers have > told me they had some success putting cayenne pepper in the depression > skunks are said to make, in front of the hive (presumably to let them > settle down and protect their underparts from stings?). Further to the above. In the past we have had lots of problems with skunks and our answer to the problem, is, to stop them getting started. We make up from plywood a U shaped piece, to fit across the front of the hive and round the sides. This then has 2" nails driven through from underneath. It looks for all the world like a Fakir's bed of nails. THAT STOPS THEM!!!! You reallly have to nip it in the bud as it is on record where a mother skunk brought her offspring and taught them how to scratch and feed. ********************************************************* * David J. Eyre CEO 9 Progress Drive, Unit 2, * * The Beeworks Orillia, Ont, Canada, L3V 6H1* * beeworks@muskoka.net (705) 326 7171 * * http.//www.muskoka.net/~beeworks * ********************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 10 Nov 1995 08:40:48 PST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Adrian Wenner Subject: Re: Info on mites Comments: cc: jcassidy@hawk.anselm.edu Fr. James Cassidy wrote (11/9/95): >Hoping to help steer the discussion away from whether or not the >list should be split, I would like to pose a question. As a beekeeper >and an academic--an historian with an interest in history of science and >history of biology--I was wondering the other day where the present >problem we experience in the USA with mites came from. ****** An official embargo against importing bees has been in place in the U.S. since 1922. However, queen breeders and beekeepers have continued to smuggle stock in from other countries in the apparently mistaken belief that there is some magical strain out there that could outperform their existing strains. (Editorial: More efficient management has always been a better solution.) Those who don't know history, of course, are doomed to repeat earlier mistakes. Despite one disaster after another since 1922, someone in Florida brought in yet more bees in the same illegal way, along with their varroa mite passengers. By selling queens to beekeepers in a dozen states without realizing he was also providing a plague, he initially nearly single-handedly brought the roof down on our heads. Migratory beekeepers likely (and also unwittingly) put the final touches on the spread. I am now finishing a manuscript for BEE CULTURE on the spread of varroa mites in the U.S., through the kind cooperation of numerous individuals in various states (complete with a map of the U.S. and sequence of mite spread by state). ******** For a quite complete treatment of mites and other pests, refer to the following reference: Shimanuki, H., D.A. Knox, B. Furgala, D.M. Caron, and J.L. Williams. Diseases and pests of honey bees. Pages 1083-1151 in Graham, Joe M. 1992. THE HIVE AND THE HONEY BEE. Dadant & Sons., Hamilton, Illinois. (Revised Edition). If you or your library don't have a copy, have them get one or (better yet) donate a copy so all in your community will have access to all the great information contained therein. [For example, much of the chatter of the last few months concerned material superbly covered in the following chapter of that same book: Schmidt, Justin O. Allergy to venomous insects. Pages 1209-1269]. Good reading. Adrian *************************************************************** * Adrian Wenner E-Mail wenner@lifesci.lscf.ucsb.edu * * Dept.Ecol.,Evol.,& Mar.Biol. Office Phone (805) 893-2838 * * University of California Lab Phone (805) 893-2675 * * Santa Barbara, CA 93106 FAX (805) 893-8062 * *"Discovery is to see what everyone else has seen, but to * * think what no one else has thought." - Albert Szent-Gyorgyi * *************************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 10 Nov 1995 12:48:08 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Derk Phelps Subject: Maryland Bee Research Lab Address? Hello all, Does anyone out there know the address web or e-mail of the bee research lab in maryland? It is a Dept of Ag location. Thanks for any help ! Derk Phelps Phelps Honey Farm dpbees@aol.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 10 Nov 1995 12:47:01 GMT Reply-To: WaltonP@adrem.demon.co.uk Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Paul Walton Subject: Re: BEE-L Digest - 7 Nov 1995 to 8 Nov 1995 In message <9511090503.aa21147@punt-4.mail.demon.net> BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU writes: > > Date: Wed, 8 Nov 1995 18:11:16 -0500 > From: Ian Stuart McLean > Subject: Re: Too much - UK involvement in Bee-L? > My work remit includes education in disease control and Spray poisoning liaison, > primarily to my UK Region. We plan our own FAQ files indeed I'll be writing some > this winter, would they be of benefit to Bee-L users? > The spread of varroosis Northwards and its current devastating effect in the South of > the UK where it has been established for a few years are the hot topics in the UK. > Would Bee-L subscribers welcome a UK Newsletter? > > I'll answer any queries, direct on a mperson to person basis. > > Yours Ian. > > ianmac@lancsbk.win-uk.net - Northern Regional Bee Inspector, UK - Bee Curious > phone/fax 01704 822831 > snailmail 'Asland' Flash Lane, Rufford, Ormskirk, Lancs, L40 1SW - UK. > Ian, *YES PLEASE* As a Bedfordshire (UK) based beekeeper who has recently learned that Varroa has been reported about 6 miles away in Dunstable, I would *VERY* much like to receive information on beekeeping issues in the UK. IMHO - I believe that there is a need for beekeeping information at the national level, just as there is a need for information which is relevant to a particular beekeepers interests/level of expertise, but I do not believe that splitting BEE-L is the answer. Both BEE-L and sci.agriculture.beekeeping provide very good forums for international exchange of information and I wouldn't want to lose that resource. I suspect that the real question that is being asked here is not whether to split the existing groups, but whether there is sufficient support for a UK based one. If there is, then lets get on with it. If there isn't, then can we please move on and have some discussion about beekeeping in this newsgroup. -- Paul Walton Email : WaltonP@Adrem.demon.co.uk : 100524.3203@Compuserve.com Snail Mail : 78 Russell Road, Toddington, Bedfordshire, LU5 6QF England Voice / Fax : +44 (0)1525 875570 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 10 Nov 1995 19:20:27 +0100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Nikola Kezic - Agron.fak." Subject: tracing after bees in pollination In-Reply-To: <30900CC6@spectrum.wcupa.edu> Dear all, Next spring we are planing experiment with different kinds of oilseed rape and honeybees. We would like to find preferable (palatable) cultivars of oilseed rape for bees. That is reason why we are in search for some substance which bees could live on visited flowers. Prof. Frilli from Udine University (Italy) sent us pollen dispensers for kiwifruit pollination. They fill dispensers with kiwi pollen and put in front of hive entrance. Each bee on her way out has to come through dispenser collecting some pollen on body and go after female flowers. I intend to put coloured powder in dispenser instead of pollen. Do you have any idea what kind of powder to use, and where to find it? It could be something phosphorescent, visible during night or after exposure to light. Any suggestions would be appreciated. Nikola Kezic =========================================================== FACULTY OF AGRICULTURE Tel: ..385-1-233-57-77 / 4061 Dept. for beekeeping Fax: ..385-1-215-300 Svetosimunska 25 e-Mail: NKEZIC@SRCE.HR 10000 Zagreb ,Croatia =========================================================== ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 10 Nov 1995 10:51:57 -0800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: John Day Subject: Re: tracing after bees in pollination colored powder can be easily obtained by using colored chalk (like blackboard chalk), putting it into a sock and beating it with a rock or hammer into a powder. john ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 10 Nov 1995 11:15:00 PST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Adrian Wenner Subject: Re: Addresses After my note about varroa mite spread in the U.S., several people asked for Dr. Shimanuki's address: Dr. Hachiro Shimanuki, Research Leader Bee Research Laboratory USDA, ARS, PSI Beltsville, Md. Unfortunately, I don't have the Zip Code handy. That information is at home, but one can follow the advice I sent out over the Net on October 25th: "For addresses of various agencies, BEE CULTURE publishes a quite complete list in each April issue." Adrian *************************************************************** * Adrian Wenner E-Mail wenner@lifesci.lscf.ucsb.edu * * Dept.Ecol.,Evol.,& Mar.Biol. Office Phone (805) 893-2838 * * University of California Lab Phone (805) 893-2675 * * Santa Barbara, CA 93106 FAX (805) 893-8062 * *"Discovery is to see what everyone else has seen, but to * * think what no one else has thought." - Albert Szent-Gyorgyi * *************************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 10 Nov 1995 16:50:40 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: David Morris Subject: Beltsville Bee Lab Address Those who wish to contact Dr. Shiminuki, or others on the staff at the Beltsville Bee Lab can write to: Bee Research Lab USDA BARC-East Building 476 Beltsville, MD 20705 In response to the another request about an e-mail address, I do not know their e-mail address. The April issue alone of Bee Culture is worth the year's subscription. It lists every extension agents, university contacts and state inspectors and research labs in the U.S. and Canada, and international, national, state and even local association addresses and contacts. It is a very good list to have. Regards, David Morris Laurel, MD (One exit north of the Bee lab on the BW Parkway) ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 10 Nov 1995 22:19:32 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Michael Thigpen Subject: Re: tracing after bees in pollination In-Reply-To: <199511101851.KAA00599@phoenix.svri.com> An easier, if slightly more expensive, solution might be to use the powdered colored chalk that's sold for use with carpenters' chalk lines. Michael R. Thigpen aa101015@midnet.csd.scarolina.edu "There is no money in poetry, but then there is no poetry in money, either." *Robert Graves* On Fri, 10 Nov 1995, John Day wrote: > colored powder can be easily obtained by using colored > chalk (like blackboard chalk), putting it into a sock > and beating it with a rock or hammer into a powder. > > john > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 10 Nov 1995 23:03:01 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Liz Day Subject: Re: tracing after bees in pollination I thought there was a flourescent dust often used for this purpose. You could ask on the pollination line.... Peter Kevan runs it. Or you could get the book "Techniques for Pollination Biology" by I can't remember, which is pretty new and supposed to be good. Author might be Inouye. Can anyone fill in the details on these? I also believe that the accuracy of results of experiments with the dust is not all it could be - but I think it depends on what you want to measure. I know this is not as helpful as possible, all my files are in storage (God bless the day I get to live somewhere where all my stuff will fit inside..) Liz Day LDAY@indy.net Indianapolis, Indiana, central USA ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 10 Nov 1995 23:21:00 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: di5 Subject: Re: tracing after bees in pollination In-Reply-To: <199511110403.XAA14437@indy2.indy.net> If you want sources of fluorescent powders, yes these are listed in Kearns and Inouye, Techniques for Pollination Biologists. University Press of Colorado. If you need more information, contact me. Dr. David W. Inouye Dept. of Zoology, University of Maryland, College Park, MD 20742 E-mail: di5@umail.umd.edu Phone: 301-405-6946 FAX: 301-314-9358 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 10 Nov 1995 23:28:13 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Liz Day Subject: Re: re skunks and bee stings [Kerry Clark writes]: [edited] If skunks really get as many stings as is supposed, there must indeed be some great difference in susceptibility. Justin Schmidt's article in Hive and Honey Bee indicates a median lethal dose (from a direct toxic effect, rather than an allergic reaction) for humans, as 19 stings per kilogram body weight. The lethal dose for a skunk at that rate, would be only 50 stings or so (2 kg skunk?). Are bee stings as painful to skunks as they are to humans? I've heard from people who have observed bears in apparent considerable pain as they consumed combs from a hive they knocked over, even some bears who were driven away from hives by bees..could skunks be that different? I sure wish I knew. I would have thought the question of how wild animals withstand stings would have been answered by now. Are we sure nobody knows??? Liz Day LDAY@indy.net Indianapolis, Indiana, central USA ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 11 Nov 1995 14:29:30 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: David Eyre Subject: Re: Info on mites However, queen breeders and beekeepers have continued to >smuggle stock in from other countries in the apparently mistaken belief >that there is some magical strain out there that could outperform their >existing strains. (Editorial: More efficient management has always been a >better solution.) While I agree with some of what you say, I take exception to your above statement, not that I condone smuggling bees. There is a better bee. We here in Ontario have been working on Tracheal mite resistant Queens since '91?, and we are successful. I can trace our resistant stock improvement, to a Buckfast (quarantined) importation made threee years ago. While I agree that efficient management is helpful, a good strain of bees to suit your area is critical. During our breeding program we have found that not all bees are created equal, and we have to practise "Cull the worst, breed the best". ********************************************************* * David J. Eyre CEO 9 Progress Drive, Unit 2, * * The Beeworks Orillia, Ont, Canada, L3V 6H1* * beeworks@muskoka.net (705) 326 7171 * * http.//www.muskoka.net/~beeworks * ********************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 11 Nov 1995 15:26:00 GMT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Andy Nachbaur Organization: WILD BEE'S BBS (209) 826-8107 LOS BANOS, CA Subject: Info on mites Fr. James Cassidy wrote (11/9/95): To: bee-l@uacsc2.albany.edu Subject: Info on mites Fr. James Cassidy wrote (11/9/95): To: bee-l@uacsc2.albany.edu Subject: Info on mites Fr. James Cassidy wrote (11/9/95): AW>From: Adrian Wenner >Date: Fri, 10 Nov 1995 08:40:48 PST >Subject: Re: Info on mites AW> An official embargo against importing bees has been in place in the U.S. >since 1922. However, queen breeders and beekeepers have continued to >smuggle stock in from other countries in the apparently mistaken belief >that there is some magical strain out there that could outperform their >existing strains. (Editorial: More efficient management has always been a >better solution.) Hello Adrian, Individual American Queen Breeders or other's smuggling bee stock is not the norm in the United States. Few if any have ever done this or would even consider it. But I know some may have and and not got detected and a few have been caught, but very few in the 73 years since the law was passed. Considering how easy it would be to place a queen and a few attendants in a plastic cage and air mail them in a envelope to or from just about any place in the world with no more then the proper postage it is a wonder more don't come in this way. The shipment of bee semen is even easier to do undetected. My own opinion based on personal conversation with those who may have done such things is that it is unfair to single out Queen Breeders, and Beekeepers, if you don't include Bee Scientists including those who may not have done the paper work after receiving the imported goods. As one friend told me of asking about stock at a well known East European bee lab and something was lost in the translation and the stock arrived before the paperwork was done, saving a lot of time and paper work. It is my own personal belief based on the number of interceptions of feral hives in transit at water port's of entry that for every one detected there has been one or more undetected and I believe that this was the most likely entry points for both mites in the numbers and speed to account for the initial rapid spread on many fronts at once. Next month new NAFTA rules on trucking direct from Mexico open the door to many more problems for the near future. AW> Those who don't know history, of course, are doomed to repeat earlier >mistakes. Despite one disaster after another since 1922, someone in >Florida brought in yet more bees in the same illegal way, along with their >varroa mite passengers. By selling queens to beekeepers in a dozen states >without realizing he was also providing a plague, he initially nearly >single-handedly brought the roof down on our heads. Migratory beekeepers >likely (and also unwittingly) put the final touches on the spread. Repeating history seems to be the norm, could be we should try learning by it, the federal regulatory people sure have or they would still be killing bees and putting beekeepers out of business. If it is impossible to stop the importation of bee problems with law's from the 1920's, and with the massive lack of regulatory capital and manpower it would take to enforce the old laws on modern transportation systems, and with wild bee's freely coming and going across our own boarders, and some as suspected, aided my beekeepers, maybe its time to change the laws to allow easier importation of stock. I assume if you publish your paper you will have more then the stories passed around from beekeeper to beekeeper about any beekeeper from Florida being responsible for introducing varroa mites to the US. Some of the stories I have heard and tried to check out are not accurate and have hurt individuals for no good reason at all. I know you are a scientist and will stick with facts and not hypothesize with peoples lives. Yes, migratory beekeepers can spread mites and it's far to easy to convince most of that, they also can spread the Tex-Mex bee. In California with its history of trading gasoline for honey or pollination rentals most beekeepers would agree that moving bee's spread all kind's of bee problems. So it must bee, but I am a skeptic, not that the mites have have not arrived, I have seen them and what they can do or I am told they do. In observing the location of African bee finds in Arizona and knowing the area well I don't see any correlation between the moving of bees and the spread of Afro genes as these genes have moved like wild fire within and from within areas that few bee's are ever moved assisted by man. The 'T mites in isolated areas of Mexico may not have been helped by man and don't know what you have found in the islands off the coast of California or if man had a hand in it. AW> I am now finishing a manuscript for BEE CULTURE on the spread of varroa >mites in the U.S., through the kind cooperation of numerous individuals in >various states (complete with a map of the U.S. and sequence of mite spread >by state). As always's I look forward to any thing you publish as you have proven that the first solution to a problem is not always the only one. ttul Andy- --- ~ QMPro 1.53 ~ SHOCKING TRUTH: 50% of all people are below average. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 12 Nov 1995 18:40:31 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Bob Colbert Subject: Re: membership we got on to your mailing list by accident. We really are not interested in bee keeping. Please delete us from your list. Thank you. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 12 Nov 1995 18:41:18 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Bob Colbert Subject: Re: membership we got onto your mailing list by mistake. Please remove our name. Thank you. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 13 Nov 1995 18:23:00 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Monarch Watch Subject: Bee-L request info Monarch Watch EMAIL: monarch@falcon.cc.ukans.edu URL: http://129.237.246.134 DPLEX-L: send message "info DPLEX-L" to listserv@ukanaix.cc.ukans.edu PHONE: (913) 864 4051 FAX: (913) 864 5321 SNAIL: c/o O.R. Taylor, Dept. of Entomology, Univ. of KS, Lawrence KS 66045 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 13 Nov 1995 19:47:23 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Greg Holley Subject: Resistance to varroa I would like to know if progress is being made in breeding bees that are resistant to varroa. Are any of the commercial queen breeders selling bees that have some resistance to varroa? Greg Holley Glade Hill, VA GM319@aol.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 Nov 1995 04:26:21 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Liz Day Subject: Re: pollination line Comments: To: rosenlk@freenet.ufl.edu Email pkevan@uoguelph.ca That's Peter Kevan, who runs the list. i don't know the list address itself..... you could try listserv@uoguelph.ca and SUBSCRIBE POL-PAL Kelley Rosenlund and see what happens. Liz Day LDAY@indy.net Indianapolis, Indiana, central USA , ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 Nov 1995 21:53:51 GMT Reply-To: ibra@matheson.demon.co.uk Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: ibra Subject: Origin and migration of Varroa jacobsoni Aaron Morris gave an outline of this subject last Friday. Here are a few details as I understand them. Eva Crane wrote an account of this in Bee World 59(4): 164-167 (1978) under the title 'The Varroa mite'. To quote: "Professor V V Alpatov has provided me with some details, and the story seems to be as follows. Apis cerana bees were indigenous in the Far East of the USSR, living wild in the forests of Ussuriyisk. Peasants who migrated there from European Russia in the last century tried to keep these bees in log hives, but they had difficulties and lost many colonies through swarming. These beees, like Apis cerana in much of its habitat, were parasitized by Varroa. This seems a likely fate for any European bees taken into cerana territory. "In more recent years, there have been many reports of high honey yields in the Far Eastern Province, which led some beekeepers in European USSR to believe that the bees there must be of a very good strain, although the high yields are in fact due to excellent flows from limes (Tilia) and other plants. Queens of these 'honey-getting' strains were purchased from the Far East for apiaries in European USSR, and with these queens came Varroa as well. The next European country to find the mites was Bulgaria, presumably introduced with queens imported from USSR." In talking with Dr Crane about this recently, she told me that this story was linked in time with the completion of the trans-Siberian railway. There will no doubt be more details in her forthcoming book on the history of bees and mankind. I recently wrote an article tracing the first reports of varroa in countries around the world (which is not exactly the same as its spread, though the two are closely related). 'First documented findings of Varroa jacobsoni outside its presumed natural range. Apiacta 30(1): 1-8 (1995)'. Andrew -- ************************************************************************** * From Andrew Matheson, Director, International Bee Research Association * * * * E.mail (home): ibra@matheson.demon.co.uk * * (office): ibra@cardiff.ac.uk * * * * IBRA, 18 North Road, Cardiff CF1 3DY, UK * * Fax (+44) 1222-665522 Telephone (+44) 1222-372409 * * http://www.cardiff.ac.uk/ibra/index.html * * * ************************************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 Nov 1995 10:54:37 MYT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Abdul Wahab Isahari Hashim Organization: Faculty of Elect Eng, UTM, Malaysia Subject: How do you check that the honey you are buying is not adulterate Hello Everyone, I have just subscribed to this list. I am very interested in beekeeping and honey production. I am planning to become a part time beekeeper. Unfortunately I very new in this. So I need all the help I can get. Any help is greatly appreciated. I use a lot of honey for therapy. Unfortunately there is no standards or regulations concerning honey in Malaysia. Most local honey is collected from wild bees hives in forest (Malaysia is a tropical country with 70% still covered with tropical rain forest). The honey is extracted and filtered with a piece of cloth. No other processing is done. We also have a lot imported honey sold in supermarket. Most local people dont trust imported honey especially when the want to use honey for therapy. Most of the times you have to trust the seller when he says that the honey is pure i.e. not adulterated. Folklore here says that the honey is pure if: i) it does not freeze (i.e. solidify ) when put in a freezer. ii) when mix with egg yolk, the egg yolks coagulates (i.e. it more or less looks like a scrambled egg) So how true is the above? How do you test for adulteration in honey? Thank you. Abd Wahab Ishari bin Mohd Hashim Fakulti Kejuruteraan Elektrik Universiti Teknologi Malaysia Locked Bag 791 80990 Johor Bahru, Malaysia Tel:607-5505123,607-5576160 ext. 5123 Fax:607-5566272 e-mail: wahab@fkeserv.fke.utm.my For backup please also cc to: e-wahab@utmkl.utm.my ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 Nov 1995 23:18:36 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Liz Day Subject: still seeking UK beekeepers, producers I'm still hoping to find whoever produced a hand lotion that used to be carried here in the US by Gardener's Eden, a gentrified mail order company. (I have some of the good lotion by Old World Honey, but this other kind is a nice addition to my 'arsenal' of hand creams because it smells *wonderful*.) "Beemaid Products", or "Honeycomb Cosmetics", makers of "Gardener's Hand Cream", made in England. Anybody over there know how I can get in touch with them? Thanks!! Liz Day LDAY@indy.net Indianapolis, Indiana, central USA ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 Nov 1995 16:01:06 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: David Eyre Subject: Re: Resistance to varroa "Greg Holley wrote" >I would like to know if progress is being made in breeding bees that are >resistant to varroa. Are any of the commercial queen breeders selling bees >that have some resistance to varroa? Don't I wish we were breeding Varroa resistant bees!! As somebody said recently, mite resistance is the "Holy Grail" of bee breeding. There is a lot of work being done on Varroa and Tracheal mite resistance here in Ontario, and in Europe. In Ontario, Dr Tibor Szabo has been working on hygienic bees, in the hope of finding or fixing a grooming gene. He has on record bees which damage the legs of Varroa, to prevent them hanging onto bees. I personally believe we won't achieve Varroa resistance until we can splice the necessary genes from Apis Cerana, which is probably a long way off. With the onslaught of Varroa, Tracheal mite has been ignored, which I think is very short sighted. We have proved some bees are extremely susceptable to Tracheal mites, and cannot cope with any infestation. So, if they are weakened by tracheal mites, and are virtually suffocating, now add Varroa, they don't stand a chance! It's a bit like having a dose of double Pneumonia and a Vampire bat on the back of your neck. A lot of hive losses could have been prevented if we changed our approach. I think our first approach should be to change stock by re-Queening to Tracheal resistance. Then there isn't a hidden mite causing problems, now we can concentrate on dealing with Varroa, not just by throwing chemicals around. Too much and we will end up, as in Italy, with Varroa immune to Apistan. When that happens we are really in trouble. There are alternatives, all we have to do is use them, stuffing our head in the sand and ignoring change won't do it. ************************************************************ * David J. Eyre CEO 9, Progress Drive, Unit 2, * * The Beeworks Orillia, Ont, Canada, L3V 6H1 * * beeworks@muskoka.net (705) 326 7171 * * http.//www.muskoka.net/~beeworks * ************************************************************* ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 Nov 1995 15:51:54 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: BusyKnight Subject: Re: Resistance to varroa >end up, as in Italy, with Varroa immune to Apistan. I don't believe this has been proven. I have not seen anything definitive on this. As far as I know, its still in the "rummor" stage. There have been some nebulous "reports" out of northern Italy (highly suspect) which have not been scientifically verified. Additionally, in Europe, they have a product other than Apistan that is approved for use in controlling Varroa. The product is called Bayvarol Strips with an active ingredient of Flumethrin (different from Fluvalinate). My understanding is that Bayvarol Strips (while not cheap) are less expensive than Apistan in Europe. This of course leds one to question why the Apistan product would have been used to begin with? With two available products to choose from; rotating between the two would considerably increase the time required to develop resistance. Can someone shed some definitive light on the reported Fluvalinate resistance of the Varroa mite in Italy? BusyKnight Dallas, TX BusyKnight busykngt@airmail.net ICBM INcode:N:32.45'W:96.45' Dallas, Republic of Texas Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is an absurd one. - Voltaire ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 Nov 1995 16:25:02 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Lane Greer Subject: Re: Resistance to varroa In-Reply-To: <9511162151.AA22734@server.iadfw.net> from "BusyKnight" at Nov 16, 95 03:51:54 pm The February 1995 issue of APIS says: It is now official! Resistance to fluvalinate, the active ingredient in ApistanR, has been found in Varroa mites. This was published in the February 1995 issue of Bee Culture (Vol. 123, No. 2, pp. 80-81) in "9th International Congress of Acarology," by E. Sugden, K. Williams and D. Sammataro. According to these authors: "The most ominous report came from Dr. Roberto Nannelli of Italy. He has found areas where Varroa mites are over 90 percent fluvalinate-resistant, and his claims have been confirmed by German scientists." Oscar Coindreau, representative of Sandoz Agro, the company that makes ApistanR, also verified this report at the recent meeting of the American Beekeeping Federation in Austin, TX. He indicated that resistance was patchy in Italy, but in certain areas, ApistanR provided no control. ... All investigators indicate that the cause of this resistance is not ApistanR, but beekeepers' misuse of other formulations of fluvalinate. In Europe the product is called KlartanR and in the United States, MavrikR. in the United States, MavrikR. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 Nov 1995 19:05:22 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Malcolm (Tom) Sanford, Florida Extension Apiculturist" Subject: November issue of APIS Distributed to: USR:[MTS]INTERNET.DIS;79 FILENAME: NOVAPIS.95 Florida Extension Beekeeping Newsletter Apis--Apicultural Information and Issues (ISSN 0889-3764) Volume 12, Number 11 November 1995 SCREENING FOR AFRICAN BEES (AHB) The Africanized Honey Bee Task Force, appointed by Bob Crawford, Commissioner of the Florida Department of Agriculture and Consumer Services, met October 11, 1995 at the Doyle Conner Building in Gainesville. A major reason for this was to begin consideration of Florida policy on African honey bee certification. According to Mr. Laurence Cutts, chief apiary inspector: "Since the African Honey Bee (AHB) movement east has currently stalled south of Houston, Texas, and natural migration into Florida may be many years away, it is more important than ever that man-assisted movement be prevented." According to Mr. Cutts, the department has been pro-active in setting up a bait hive line along I-10 and adding additional bait hives at ports of entry. Now it would like to prevent introduction using regulations that will not place an unbearable burden on the Department nor the beekeeping industry. After some discussion, the Task Force recommended the following certification requirements for honey bees entering Florida: 1. The Florida Department of Agriculture shall be notified as soon as possible, but no later than time of entry. Honeybee colonies will be certified on a first-come, first-serve basis. [Editor's note: Originally only bees from states determined to be Africanized were included. The Task Force, however, is now proposing that all honey bees entering Florida come under this provision.] 2. A compliance agreement setting forth the following conditions must be signed by the owner/operator: A. The exact location of the drop (unloading) yard(s) will be given. B. The bees will be held in the drop yard(s) until certified by the Department to move. C. An inspector biased sample of 10 percent of the colonies will be checked. 3. Should any sample be 90 percent probability or above of being AHB, the beekeeper has two options: A. Requeen immediately with certified European stock, be dequeened and stacked, or B. Wait for a sample to be sent to Gainesville for further testing. If 90% or above in Gainesville, it will be sent to Beltsville, MD. 4. Any colony exceeding 100% probability of being AHB will initiate a 100% testing of that load. 5. Any colony confirmed to be African must be requeened, dequeened and stacked, or destroyed within seven days of receipt of written notice. 6. Package bees and queens must be certified by the state of origin. It is anticipated that the testing will use a "fresh weight" system. This procedure is estimated to take about three minutes per sample. The sampling process is considered "special" within the context of Florida's Apiary Inspection services. As such, it carries a service charge based on time and travel expenses of inspectors. I emphasize that the above are only recommendations at the present time. The final step will be forwarding them to the Agricultural Commissioner's office. This has been postponed, however, for another year by the Division. Reasons for the delay include the fact that the AHB has yet to reach the almond-growing area in California, that statistical justification for doing a percentage inspection is weak and finally, that resources to do 100 percent inspection do not exist in the Division. Now that this has been put off for the time being, there is some breathing room to contemplate the effects of these possible regulations on individual beekeepers and regulators. If you have questions or concerns, contact your local bee inspector or Mr. Laurence Cutts, Chief Apiarist, P.O. Box 147100/1911 SW 34th St., Gainesville, FL 32614- 7100, ph 904/372-3505 or fax 904/955-2301. AHB IN CALIFORNIA In the February 1990 APIS, I reported on the pioneering honey bee DNA work of Dr. Glenn Hall here in the Entomology and Nematology Department. In the journal Nature (1989), he concluded that a predominance of maternally inherited mitochondrial DNA in African bees suggested the insects were spreading by swarming, rather than through genetic inheritance from drones. In the July 1994 APIS, I reviewed the results of a study in the journal Experientia by N.M. Schiff and W.S. Sheppard that tracked bee ancestry using mitochondrial DNA. The same issue also discussed possible reasons why the AHB migration had slowed considerably in Texas and was rapidly spreading westward, but not towards the east as fast as predicted. Dr. Robert Page, at the University of California, Davis, adds to the story in From the U.C. Apiaries, July/August 1995, published by Dr. Eric C. Mussen: "Africanized honey bees were first detected in California last fall when they suddenly appeared at a prison near Blythe. Since then, a total of ten colonies has been detected, two near Blythe and the rest in the Imperial Valley. Most of these colonies were determined to be Africanized on the basis of the USDA-ID morphometric method that analyzes 21 different size and body part characteristics. In addition to the standard USDA-ID method, the California Department of Food and Agriculture pest diagnostic lab analyzed the mitochondrial DNA of these bees using a technique developed in my laboratory by Dr. Paul Ebert. [Editor's note: This is based on a method published by Dr. Hall in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences (1991).] They found that all of these colonies had African-type mitochondria. The mitochondria in honey bees (and humans) is inherited only from the mother. Therefore, these results demonstrate that the Africanized bees arriving in California are part of a very long maternal line that extends relatively unchanged back to the original introduction of African bees in Brazil in 1956. [Editor's note: This was also concluded by Dr. Hall in his Nature study mentioned above.] "Two years ago Africanized bees were found on the southern and eastern borders of California. I believed at that time that their entry into California was inevitable and had probably already occurred. My hypothesis was that they would increase in density in that area until they were numerous enough to be captured in a trap, or cause some kind of problem in an inhabited area. The repeated finds of Africanized bees in the Imperial Valley this spring stimulated me to sample bees from that region in order to determine their distribution and relative abundance. "The standard USDA-ID method requires sampling 10 bees from a single colony. Feral colonies are not easily found unless they fly into traps or are a nuisance to someone, so the morphometric method is not good to use as a random survey tool. Mitochondrial DNA analyses, however, can be made on single bees. Therefore, an area survey is possible by simply catching bees on flowers, then determining their mitochondrial type. If Africanized bees are abundant in an area, relative to European bees, then there should be an abundance of African mitochondrial types in the sample. "April 13-15, I (along with my 11-year-old son, Brian) collected 75 bees from 31 collection sites located in the Imperial Valley and near Blythe, California. We tried to make collections in areas where the bees were likely to be feral, although there is no way to tell where the bees came from. Mitochondrial DNA diagnostics were run on these bees and we did not find any mitochondrial types that are indicative of Africanized honey bees. I interpret these results to suggest that Africanized honey bees are not yet abundant in these areas. "My original hypothesis was probably wrong. Africanized bees have not been in California for two years; it is likely that we are truly seeing the very early stages of the 'invasion' of Africanized bees. The current method of sampling used by the California Department of Food and Agriculture--trap lines and reports from concerned citizens--are better than random sampling methods for early detection of rare Africanized colonies. However, the method of randomly sampling bees and checking their mitochondrial DNA will be the best indicator of the extent of 'Africanization' in an area. "Why it has taken the bees so long to move into California and why they are spreading so slowly remain a mystery. [Editor's note: see possible reasons in the July 1994 APIS.] Genetic mixing with commercial bees does not seem to be the answer because the colonies that have been detected have been highly Africanized both in morphometric characters and mitochondrial DNA. [Editor's note: Dr. Hall published evidence in the Journal Genetics (1990) that feral Mexican honey bees of African descent had not hybridized significantly with commercial European bees. Also see June 1993 APIS on why hybrids may not persist in the wild.] Only time will tell to what extent they will spread and how abundant they will become, but for now they have not made a detectable impact, even in the Imperial Valley." As time passes, therefore, the African honey bee migration continues to confound as it has almost from its date of release into the Brazilian wilds. And for those closest to the issue, one of the greatest biological events of the 20th century only becomes more and more intriguing. Unfortunately, this is often little solace to the general public and beekeeping industry in search of definite answers to cope with challenges posed by this remarkable insect. FACTS AND VINE CROP POLLINATION This second annual Florida Agricultural Conference and Trade Show (FACTS) at the Orange County Convention Center, October 24-26, 1995, was a rousing success by most measures. There was plenty to satisfy all those interested in the changing face of Florida agriculture. These included concurrent presentation on vegetables and citrus, a large trade show and several other exhibits, including one on how information technology is helping agriculture. In previous conferences of this kind, I have noticed that pollination issues did not seem to have the same emphasis as those involving fertilization rates, disease and pest diagnoses, and pesticide applications. There are signs that this is changing, however. My presentation on "Pollination Requirements of Vine Crops" was well received and generated many more questions than usual, not only about honey bees, but also other pollinators. A few beekeepers were also in attendance hawking their pollination wares. And several exhibitors were selling chemical attractants to growers anxious to get more honey bees visiting target crops. Increasing interest in pollination has brought with it the realization that much more needs to be learned about this aspect of Florida cropping systems. Information given at the vegetable session, for example, was wide ranging, but little was mentioned, even in passing, of pollination requirements. Production trials on a bewildering array of watermelons and discussion of the growing specialty vegetable crop market (pepper, garlic, artichoke, leek, chicory and others) dominated the agenda. The use of transplants instead of seed for seedless watermelon production (which require insect pollination in any case) and protected growing (greenhouses, plastic-sheeted frames) situations were also addressed during the vegetable session. Taken as a whole, the FACTS convention produced a good deal of information important to those engaged in Florida citrus and vegetable culture. As part of their communication with customers, would-be commercial pollinators should also become conversant with the above topics and other aspects of the production techniques growers use (see July and October 1995 APIS). A copy of the vegetable proceedings, which includes the paper on vine crop pollination requirements, is available from Citrus and Vegetable Magazine, 794 N. 56th St., Suite 560, Tampa, FL 33617, ph 813/980- 6386, fax 813/980-2871 or Dr. Don Maynard, Gulf Coast REC, 5007 60th St. E., Bradenton, FL 32403-9324, ph 813/751-7636, fax 813/751-7639. Sincerely, Malcolm T. Sanford Bldg 970, Box 110620 University of Florida Gainesville, FL 32611-0620 Phone (904) 392-1801, Ext. 143 FAX: 904-392-0190 BITNET Address: MTS@IFASGNV; INTERNET Address: MTS@GNV.IFAS.UFL.EDU APIS on the World Wide Web-- http://gnv.ifas.ufl.edu/~entweb/apis/apis.htm ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 Nov 1995 21:48:37 -0800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Mark Jensen Subject: Re: Resistance to varroa >Can someone shed some definitive light on the reported Fluvalinate >resistance of the Varroa mite in Italy? I was just at the Calif. Beekeepers Assoc. Meeting, and Oscar Coindreau of Zoecon presented some info that looked pretty solid that there is fluvalinate resistance in Italy and in Switzerland and southeastern France. The claim is that it was caused by homemade strips using Klartan (fluvalinate containing plant miticide) and leaving the treatment in too long. Apparently the beekeepers there are switching to another product containing a different active ingredient. Zoecon is apparently working on other varroa treatments, but my hunch listening to Mr. Coindreau is that they are making so much money off of Apistan, that they don't have any incentive to introduce a new varroa treatment. By the time our bees develop resistance to Apistan, though, they will probably have a new more expensive one to take its place. Does anybody else think it is crazy that we have to pay Zoecon $6 for 4 plastic strips that probably have a cost of production of $.02 ea and that these people have been given a monoply with no competition, while our university professors and beekeeping extension personnel wring their hands and tell us over and over that we must pay all this money to this giant pharmaceutical company. Folks, there is something wrong with this picture, the bee disease treatment apparatus in the US is broken and our college professors and extension apiculturists are not doing anything to fix it. Mark Jensen-Double J Apiaries mjensen@crl.com Los Altos Hills, CA, USA fax 415 941 3488 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 Nov 1995 19:27:25 +0100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Hugo Veerkamp Organization: Stichting InterWorld Subject: locking up the queen.. hi all: here in Holland and Germany, there is a common procedure for biological control of Varroa mites. The queen is locked up ( by means of a piece of gauze) on a drawn out drone comb, and so has to lay it full of eggs. The gauze is then removed and the cells are tended by the workers. Before the cells are closed, a number of Varroa mite females find their way into the drone cells ( attracted by the smell of drone brood); After closure of the cells, the comb contains a large number of Varroa mites. The frame is then removed and put in the freezer for a few days to kill both larvae and mites. Alternatively, the wax is recovered in a sun wax melter and the mites killed in the process.. The english name of this procedure is what I am currently looking for. In Holland its the "Arrestraam" method, while our german neighbours refer to the "Bannwabe".. your reply in Email to address below please sincerely, Hugo -- \|/ @ @ Hugo Veerkamp ----------oOO-(_)-OOo--------------------------------------------- | Email: BEENET INTERNATIONAL | | hug.bee@beenet.iwg.nl | mail : the Bee bbs | | | P.O. BOX 51008 | | | 1007EA AMSTERDAM | | | The Netherlands | | Beenet : 240:31/0 | modem: +31 20 6764105 | | Fidonet: 2:2801/28 | voice: +31 20 6715663 | ------------------------------------------------------------------ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 17 Nov 1995 08:35:46 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: BusyKnight Subject: Re: Resistance to varroa >Does anybody else think it is crazy that we have to >pay Zoecon $6 for 4 plastic strips that probably have a cost of production >of $.02 ea and that these people have been given a monoply with no >competition, while our university professors and beekeeping extension >personnel wring their hands and tell us over and over that we must pay all >this money to this giant pharmaceutical company. Folks, there is something >wrong with this picture, the bee disease treatment apparatus in the US is >broken and our college professors and extension apiculturists are not doing >anything to fix it. >Mark Jensen-Double J Apiaries Mark - I agree whole-heartedly. You make some very valid points. I have always wondered why the European Baybarol Strips can't be imported and used in the US. Obviously, they have already under- gone testing in Europe and been approved. (Of course they are manufactured by Bayer pharmaceutical - another gaint). But at least there would be some competition for Zoecon and maybe the com- petition would help reduce prices. This is one of the "real questions" that you have to ask yourself.... Why isn't the Bayer product available to be used in the US?? Why aren't the universities working on alternate chemical solutions...why is it left up to the fox thats guarding the hen house? BusyKnight busykngt@airmail.net ICBM INcode:N:32.45'W:96.45' Dallas, Republic of Texas Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is an absurd one. - Voltaire ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 17 Nov 1995 16:27:43 +0100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jean-Marie Van Dyck Subject: Re: Resistance to varroa In this level of the discussion (alternatives substances), seems it's of intereset to know that some french beekeeping revues announced for 2 or 3 months the possibility to use new strips containing AMITRAZ as an active compound. The gave a result as best as the APISTAN one (more than 99%). Have a good WE Jean-Marie ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 17 Nov 1995 07:58:00 -0800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Kerry Clark of AGF 784-2225 fax (604) 784 2299" Subject: re varroa resistance A couple of points re the recent discussion: There are several discussions of the topic, in New Perspectives on Varroa (ed. A. Matheson) IBRA 1994: Buchler. Varroa tolerance in honey bees - occurence, characters and breeding. p 12 - 23. Milani and Nazzi. Findings on the fertility of varroa under lab conditions. p 41 -46. Boot Calis and Beetsma. Possibilities for breeding honey bees resistant to varroa p 53 -55 Cermak. The possibility of selecting honey bees for resistance against varroa p 56 -57 Ifantidis. Factors influencing the population growth of varroa. p 58 -62. Murilhas. Susceptibility of commercial strains of bees to varroa in Mediterranean conditions. p 63 - 77. My overall impression: there are several characteristics of honey bees, and other factors that influence the severity of varroa infestation: they are related to bee subspecies, attractiveness of brood to mites, variable mite reproduction, bee's grooming (self and nestmate) and hygenic behavior (removal of infested brood), and length of the bees' post-capping period. It's not clear if any one, or what combination of these will be necessary for this tolerance or resistance to be fully adequate. A stock of A. mellifera which co-exists with varroa in temperate areas without beekeeper management, seems possible but has not been confirmed. Tracheal mite resistance has been selected in bees in several breeding programs in the past few years. It seems that just as much resistance to tracheal mites can be selected from within the bees already in North America, as is present in European bees. A greater degree of resistance to tracheal mites is required in some environments (poor foraging, long winters) so what is adequate depends a lot on where you mean to keep bees. That may apply to varroa resistance, too. When a high intensity of selection is necessary (1 in a million) and then used to replace existing stock, there is a danger of losing the variability that gives the overall bee population its resiliency. If we all used clones of what we became convinced was "the perfect stock" there could be an increased susceptibility to the next problem. Kerry Clark, Apiculture Specialist B.C. Ministry of Agriculture 1201 103 Ave Dawson Creek B.C. V1G 4J2 CANADA Tel (604) 784-2225 fax (604) 784-2299 INTERNET KCLARK@GALAXY.GOV.BC.CA . ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 17 Nov 1995 08:48:00 -0800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Kerry Clark of AGF 784-2225 fax (604) 784 2299" Subject: re flumethrin/fluvalinate Busyknight mentioned the possibility of alternating flumethrin and fluvalinate to avoid varroa resistance to either. While the strategy is reasonable, my understanding is that the 2 materials are so close chemically, that resistance to either would likely be resistance to both. For this alternation to be successful, control products with different modes of action would be necessary. Regarding cost to beekeepers: there was a discussion here, half a year ago. As I recall, there was quite a range in the cost of Apistan. Bayvarol was not available in many countries, and its cost was a bit higher than the average cost of Apistan. I don't remember if both materials were available in the same country. Kerry Clark, Apiculture Specialist B.C. Ministry of Agriculture 1201 103 Ave Dawson Creek B.C. V1G 4J2 CANADA Tel (604) 784-2225 fax (604) 784-2299 INTERNET KCLARK@GALAXY.GOV.BC.CA ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 17 Nov 1995 13:39:37 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Diana Sammataro Subject: Re: re varroa resistance In-Reply-To: <01HXQSJC1HIM9ARZ7C@mr.gov.bc.ca> from "Kerry Clark of AGF 784-2225 fax" at Nov 17, 95 07:58:00 am Kerry: Thanks for your note regarding varroa resistance.THere are numerous reports now from APimondia this year. It is something I will be dealing with as a postdoc for the next three years. We're working on an IPM program for both mites, since it seems unlikely that we can truely breed bees resistant to both mites at the same time. An impossibility, as I see it. Plus I am doing work on the mites themselves, they should be changing as well as the bees, faster in fact. There is much work being done on alternatives to the chemicals. I know that Nick Calderone has been working on various oils, along with several other people. Lots of work, nothing written up yet, as it is much too soon. I want to thank you again for sharing your thesis with me, it was excellent. I will have copies of my dissertation available, if you want to wade through it. The chapter on tracheal mite behavior on oily bees is quite exciting and will be published in next year's Experimental and Applied Acarology. I even made a video for my presentation. Keep in touch, I am interested to chat with you further about your varroa control. Diana Sammataro, Ph.D. OHio State University COlumbus OH 43210 1220 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 17 Nov 1995 19:17:00 +0000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Gordon Scott Subject: Re: Resistance to varroa In-Reply-To: <9511162151.AA22734@server.iadfw.net> On Thu, 16 Nov 1995, BusyKnight wrote: > Additionally, in Europe, they have a product other than > Apistan that is approved for use in controlling Varroa. The > product is called Bayvarol Strips with an active ingredient of > Flumethrin (different from Fluvalinate). My understanding is > that Bayvarol Strips (while not cheap) are less expensive than > Apistan in Europe. This of course leds one to question why > the Apistan product would have been used to begin with? With > two available products to choose from; rotating between the two > would considerably increase the time required to develop resistance. > > Can someone shed some definitive light on the reported Fluvalinate > resistance of the Varroa mite in Italy? Hi, Bayvarol is a fairly new drug here, so it's only recently possible to rotate these two. They are fairly close relatives of each other anyway. There are a couple or so other treatments available too -- Amitraz(?) and Perizin. I believe that the truth of the failure to rotate is that fluvalinate is available as a miticide for use on plants at a _much_ cheaper price than Apistan, and this was used in home-brew treatments that were not well matched to efficient mite kill. All of the approved bee treatment products are expensive. The drug companies say that's because demand is insufficient for them to make sufficient profit at a lower price to cover their licensing for use. All the drugs were developed for other purposes and have been 'borrowed' for use against varroa on bees. Most or all the drug companies seem to be of the opinion (publicly at least) that they will not be developing new drugs for the same reasons. Of course if bees get _really_ badly hit, resulting in a subsequent hit on agriculture generally, they may change their opinions. After all they also make billions of dollars out of being so helpful to us. Best regards, -- Gordon Scott gordon@apis.demon.co.uk Hampshire, England. gordon@multitone.co.uk Beekeeper; Kendo 3rd Dan; Sometime sailor. The Basingstoke Beekeeper (newsletter) beekeeper@apis.demon.co.uk ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 17 Nov 1995 19:33:47 +0000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Gordon Scott Subject: Re: Resistance to varroa In-Reply-To: <199511162101.QAA24200@segwun.muskoka.net> On Thu, 16 Nov 1995, David Eyre wrote: > "Greg Holley wrote" > >I would like to know if progress is being made in breeding bees that are > >resistant to varroa. Are any of the commercial queen breeders selling bees > >that have some resistance to varroa? > > Don't I wish we were breeding Varroa resistant bees!! As somebody > said recently, mite resistance is the "Holy Grail" of bee breeding. That's only one of several holy grails :-) **WARNING**: __Rumour__Alert__! I heard a story recently that a strain of bees in Tunisia in northern Africa (A. M. intermissia??), were showing signs of resistance by their own natural selection. The story says that the people are very poor and can't afford the chemicals, that the bees are _very_ swarmy, and that after their early, very serious knockback, the bees are building again. If there _is_ any truth in this I'm sure people are investigating the possibilities. Anyone know if there's even a grain of truth in the story? Of course that nasty swarming habit could be a problem! I remember a friend describing one such strain by saying that if you put a queen and ten workers in a queen cage, they'd start making preparations to swarm. Best regards, -- Gordon Scott gordon@apis.demon.co.uk Hampshire, England. gordon@multitone.co.uk Beekeeper; Kendo 3rd Dan; Sometime sailor. The Basingstoke Beekeeper (newsletter) beekeeper@apis.demon.co.uk ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 17 Nov 1995 12:46:03 -0800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Alida Francisco Janmaat Subject: opinions wanted.... Hi all... I'm currently writing a paper on the effectiveness of the Varroa action plan for Canada (with particular reference to the Canada/US border closure), for a graduate pest management in practice course. I'm interested in hearing your opinions on... 1. the effectiveness of the program? 2. the roles of the various Canadian agencies involved in the program ie. Fedral and Provincial agencies, C.A.P.A, and C.H.C and how effective they were/are at carrying out these roles. 3. How could the program have been improved? Your opinion on any one of these (or all) of these topics would be greatly appreciated! You can send them to me directly at janmaat@sfu.ca! Thanks a lot...Alida ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 17 Nov 1995 12:56:29 -0800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ian Farber Subject: Re: still seeking UK beekeepers, producers In-Reply-To: <199511160418.XAA16962@indy2.indy.net> On Wed, 15 Nov 1995, Liz Day wrote: > I'm still hoping to find whoever produced a hand lotion that used to be > carried here in the US by Gardener's Eden, a gentrified mail order company. > (I have some of the good lotion by Old World Honey, but this other kind is > a nice addition to my 'arsenal' of hand creams because it smells > *wonderful*.) > > "Beemaid Products", or "Honeycomb Cosmetics", makers of "Gardener's Hand > Cream", made in England. > Anybody over there know how I can get in touch with them? > > Thanks!! > Liz Day > LDAY@indy.net > Indianapolis, Indiana, central USA > Liz, I don't know of the product you wish to locate but there is another excellent hand lotion available. It is made by Roger and Anne Clapham of Clapham's Beeswax Products Ltd. Their address is: CLAPHAM'S BEESWAX PRODUCTS LTD. 324 Le Feuvre Road Matsqui, B. C., Canada V4X 1A2 604-856-2085 These people are friends and they make the best hand lotion I have seen so far. Hope this information is of the type you are looking for. Contact them directly for information. They do ship to the USA on a regular basis. Regards, Ian Farber Westsyde Apiaries ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 17 Nov 1995 11:09:00 -0800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Paul van Westendorp of AGF 576-5600 Fax: 576-5652" Subject: Re: BEE-L Digest - 15 Nov 1995 to 16 Nov 1995 BusyKnight of Texas questioned the reports claiming Varroa mite resistance to fluvalinate (Apistan R). For verification of these claims, and unfortunately they are no longer rumours or anecdotal observations, you may refer to Apidologie 26(1) where Lodesani et al. confirm the 'ineffectiveness' of Apistan in Italy's Lombardy region. It has been claimed that this is the result of the inappropriate use of the product by applying the (cheaper) liquid formulation in various forms (eg. dipping cardboard strips and suspending them in the hive). However, inappropriate use also consitutes the placement of Apistan strips for prolonged periods, far exceeding the recommended treatment period as stated on the label. Here in Western Canada, there has been a rapid increase in the use of Apistan as Varroa has entered new areas. But what has been happening is that many producers have adopted a management of convenience by installing strips during fall preparation and leaving them in until early spring. Surely, an ideal environment towards the rapid development of 'Apistan-resistant' mites. Also, the extended exposure may cause fat-soluble fluvalinate to migrate into the comb, potentially affecting bee brood development after successive years. What this means is that the threat of Apistan resistant mites may be much nearer than many of us think. The repercussions of losing Apistan as a Varroa mite control agent will be serious. Not only will producers resort to all kinds of "snake-oil" recipes but in the process, may end up contaminating their bees, equipment or honey. Indeed, in Europe several other products are registered for use including Bayverol (flumetrin). The problem with flumethrin is that it also belongs to the family of synthetic pyrethroids, as fluvalinate does. As has been observed in other mite pests, most notably the two-spotted spider mites, the build-up of resistance to one pyrethroid has often led to the simultaneous resistance to other closely related pyrethroids. It would not be surprising if the Apistan-resistant mites of Lombardy display comparable levels of tolerance (resistance?) to flumethrin. While there is a genuine danger for the beekeeping industry to lose Apistan as a valuable tool of control, there appears no imminent arrival of other effective controls. The only alternative available in Canada is formic acid which under favorable conditions may offer good control. But formic acid, as cheap as it is, has to be handled with care and may not always be good to the bees. It is therefore in everyone's interest to retain Apistan's effectiveness as long as possible: . Use Apistan only when needed, . Do not use alternate Apistan application methods, . Always remove strips upon treatment completion, . Do not re-use Apistan strips (I know it's tempting), . Alternate with other (registered) products (eg. formic acid). Paul van Westendorp pvanwesten@galaxy.gov.bc.ca Provincial Apiarist British Columbia ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 17 Nov 1995 16:43:30 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: David Eyre Subject: Re: locking up the queen.. >hi all: > >here in Holland and Germany, there is a common procedure for biological control >of Varroa mites. The queen is locked up >( by means of a piece of gauze) on a drawn out drone comb, >and so has to lay it full of eggs. We do have a similar system of control here in North America. Our name for it is a "Varroa trap", it consists of an outer frame covered with queen excluder. A frame of drone foundation is used, and one suggestion was rather than waste the by-products, the frame is replaced in the hive after freezing to allow the bees to reingest the dead brood. Obviously the dead Varroa drop to the bottom of the hive. As an aside we do market these should anyone be interested. ************************************************************ * David J. Eyre CEO 9, Progress Drive, Unit 2, * * The Beeworks Orillia, Ont, Canada, L3V 6H1 * * beeworks@muskoka.net (705) 326 7171 * * http.//www.muskoka.net/~beeworks * ************************************************************* ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 17 Nov 1995 19:05:01 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Frederick L. Hollen" Subject: Warming room for honey ATQ0V1E1S0=0 ATDT1-800-281-9797 Hello to all: I am in need of suggestions/ideas for building a room to warm honey in order to liquify it for packaging. We would be warming 55-gallon drums and need room for 4 - 5 of them at a time. I am seeking this info for a commercial beekeeper friend who is not computerized -- I'm just a hobbiest. You may e-mail me direct to avoid cluttering up the BEE-LIST. Thanks, Fred ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 17 Nov 1995 08:26:16 +0100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Hugo Veerkamp Organization: Stichting InterWorld Subject: Resistant Varroa mites hi all ! First off, I found the lines quoted below under the subject header of "Varroa resistance",while it seems an entirely different kind of resistance has been dragged into the discussion now( original subject was resistance of bees against mites; today's new subject is resistance of mites against fluvalinate etc. ) >>end up, as in Italy, with Varroa immune to Apistan. > I don't believe this has been proven. I have not seen > anything > definitive on this. As far as I know, its still in > the "rummor" > stage. There have been some nebulous "reports" out of > northern > Italy (highly suspect) which have not been > scientifically verified. This is what I believed as wel, until I read the article 'Apistanresistente Varroa Milben auch in Suedtirol' (Heinrich Gufler und Dr. Klaus Wallner: Deutsches Bienen journal 5/95, pp. 37-38). In this article a prof. N.Milani of the university of Udine is quoted about fluvalinate resistance in V. Mites causing heavy colony losses in Sicily and Lombardy 2 years ago. Since then this resistance has spread over large areas in Italy. In north Italy ( the region referred to as 'SuedTirol', since the time it was part of Tirol, a german speaking part of Austria), Apistan has been used since 1988, and resistant mites were found beginning 1994 in the region of Merano. During a test it was found that Apistan showed only an efficiency of 60% there, while 95% was found at a similar test in Austria. A second result of these investigations was, that re-used Apistanstrips still contained a lot of fluvalinate( as measured by gaschromatography of solutions obtained from the surface of the strips). For further details I have to refer to the oroginal article. Adresses of the authors: Heinrich Gufler, Landwirtschaftsschule "Mair am Hof" I-39031 Dietenheim-Bruneck Dr. Klaus Wallner Landesanstalt fuer Bienenkunde der Universitaet Hohenheim D-70593 Stuttgart Hope this cleared up a few things sincerely, Hugo -- \|/ @ @ drs. Hugo Veerkamp ----------oOO-(_)-OOo--------------------------------------------- | Email: BEENET INTERNATIONAL | | hug.bee@beenet.iwg.nl | mail : the Bee bbs | | | P.O. BOX 51008 | | | 1007EA AMSTERDAM | | | The Netherlands | | Beenet : 240:31/0 | modem: +31 20 6764105 | | Fidonet: 2:2801/28 | voice: +31 20 6715663 | ------------------------------------------------------------------ > Additionally, in Europe, they have a product other > than > Apistan that is approved for use in controlling > Varroa. The > product is called Bayvarol Strips with an active > ingredient of > Flumethrin (different from Fluvalinate). My > understanding is > that Bayvarol Strips (while not cheap) are less > expensive than > Apistan in Europe. This of course leds one to > question why > the Apistan product would have been used to begin > with? With > two available products to choose from; rotating > between the two > would considerably increase the time required to > develop resistance. > Can someone shed some definitive light on the reported > Fluvalinate > resistance of the Varroa mite in Italy? > BusyKnight > Dallas, TX > BusyKnight > busykngt@airmail.net > ICBM INcode:N:32.45'W:96.45' > Dallas, Republic of Texas > Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but > certainty is an absurd one. - Voltaire > --- GIGO+ sn 272 at iwg vsn 0.99.950801 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 18 Nov 1995 12:17:09 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Timothy S. Sterrett" Subject: Re: tracheal mites and grease patties Comments: To: Automatic digest processor In-Reply-To: <199511180510.AAA01130@locke.ccil.org> If a grease patty works against tracheal mites by greasing or oiling a bee's body, has anyone tried spraying cooking & baking oil (PAM is one trade name) (a soybean product that does not evaporate even at cooking and baking temperatures) onto the cluster of bees or onto hive parts? Tim Sterrett Westtown, Pennsylvania, USA tss@locke.ccil.org ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 18 Nov 1995 14:06:25 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Liz Day Subject: Re: still seeking UK beekeepers, producers OK, thanks. I'll see what they are making. mabye they can tell me about what herbs if any they use. My hands thank you! Liz Day LDAY@indy.net Indianapolis, Indiana, central USA ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 18 Nov 1995 17:52:43 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: David Eyre Subject: Re: tracheal mites and grease patties > If a grease patty works against tracheal mites by greasing or oiling >a bee's body, has anyone tried spraying cooking & baking oil (PAM is one YUCKeeee!!! Come on you guys this is getting beyond a joke. Why not throw in the kitchen sink while your at it? All this mucking about to save the cost of requeening. I've noticed this about bee keepers, they'll waste $500 worth of time to save $5 cash. A requeen will cost $11US is it worth all the trouble? Also, think of the cost of losing a hive if your ideas don't work!! ************************************************************ * David J. Eyre CEO 9, Progress Drive, Unit 2, * * The Beeworks Orillia, Ont, Canada, L3V 6H1 * * beeworks@muskoka.net (705) 326 7171 * * http.//www.muskoka.net/~beeworks * ************************************************************* ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 18 Nov 1995 17:52:48 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: David Eyre Subject: Varroa control > While there is a genuine danger for the beekeeping industry to lose > Apistan as a valuable tool of control, there appears no imminent > arrival of other effective controls. The only alternative available > in Canada is formic acid which under favorable conditions may offer > good control. But formic acid, as cheap as it is, has to be handled > with care and may not always be good to the bees. It is therefore in > everyone's interest to retain Apistan's effectiveness as long as > possible: > > . Use Apistan only when needed, > . Do not use alternate Apistan application methods, > . Always remove strips upon treatment completion, > . Do not re-use Apistan strips (I know it's tempting), > . Alternate with other (registered) products (eg. formic > acid). While I agree 100% with all your comments we are still missing one more control and that is biological.The Varroa trap, locking up the Queen, call it what you will. It really is a viable method, used in Europe for many years. In fact some organic beekeepers use nothing else!!! The only drawback is that it is very labour intensive, not really suitable for commercial operations. Perhaps this is worthy of more discussion, privately or in open forum? One final point, has anybody thought of the effect of formic acid (a dangerous corrosive) on the sensory pads of bees feet.? ************************************************************ * David J. Eyre CEO 9, Progress Drive, Unit 2, * * The Beeworks Orillia, Ont, Canada, L3V 6H1 * * beeworks@muskoka.net (705) 326 7171 * * http.//www.muskoka.net/~beeworks * ************************************************************* ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 18 Nov 1995 19:48:37 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Brian Tassey Subject: Re: BEE-L Digest - 15 Nov 1995 to 16 Nov 1995 Paul, I was in contact with a rep. from I believe, Amvet Pharm. that mentioned a product that they were testing. It basically was a gelled form of Formic Acid that was encased in plastic pouches with lasered holes in the plastic. The idea being a controlled release of Formic vapors over an extended period and a much safer application method. They are a Canadian company and I was curious if you had heard of any results from them. Brian Tassey Alta Apiaries Atwater, CA 95301 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 18 Nov 1995 19:48:49 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Brian Tassey Subject: Re: Resistance to varroa Jean-Marie, In my experiences with Amitraz and Amitraz strips I found them to be very effective if not superior to Apistan. I'm aware that the company that produced Miticur Strips (amitraz) here in the USA gave up due to liability and small market potential. It's a shame. It offered beekeepers here a potential treatment for rotation to avoid resistance. I would be interested in any more news about this material you find. Brian Tassey Alta Apiaries Atwater, CA 95301 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 18 Nov 1995 10:11:10 +0100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Hugo Veerkamp Organization: Stichting InterWorld Subject: naming the mites.. hi all! as most of you Bee-listers are probably aware of, we have four different mite diseases in honeybees: english: latin: 1. Tracheal mite disease (Acarapis woodi) 2. Varroa mite disease (Varroa jacobsoni) 3. Tropilaelaps mite disease (Tropilaelaps clareae) 4. Euvarroa mite disease (Euvarroa sinhai) I am wondering if the english names above are the correct expressions for these diseases. I'm reasonably sure of nrs. 1 and 2, but what about the others? Any help is enormously appreciated. Please answer to my Email address below, or to this List. -- \|/ @ @ Hugo Veerkamp ----------oOO-(_)-OOo--------------------------------------------- | Email: BEENET INTERNATIONAL | | hug.bee@beenet.iwg.nl | mail : the Bee bbs | | | P.O. BOX 51008 | | | 1007EA AMSTERDAM | | | The Netherlands | | Beenet : 240:31/0 | modem: +31 20 6764105 | | Fidonet: 2:2801/28 | voice: +31 20 6715663 | ------------------------------------------------------------------ ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 18 Nov 1995 10:11:10 +0100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Hugo Veerkamp Organization: Stichting InterWorld Subject: rresistance factors hi all! A few more remarks on the resistancy of Varroa mites to fluvalinate ( Apistan) and flumethril (Bayvarol), seem in order: 1. as has been established on several occasions( cf. a.o. my previous message on this theme), colonies in northern Italy have in fact shown a reduced sensitivity to Apistan strips, while this seems also to be the case for Bayvarol strips. This has obviously to do with the resemblance in molecular structure of both active ingredients. They both belong to the same group of Pyrethroids. It follows, that in order to prevent inducing resistance in V. Mites to either acaricide, it is better policy to implement a mite control scheme based on one of these pyrethroids alternating with a totally different chemical treatment, such as formic- or lactic acid. Alternating two chemicals from the same group would merely enhance general resistance to the group as a whole. 2. If I remember correctly from my days in molecular genetics, resistancy resides in small circular pieces of DNA, called 'resistancy factors' . These minute pieces of genetic information contain the genes involved in resistancy against e.g. a certain chemical, and they can be passed on from one individual to rthe next and so spread much like virus particles. This is one asdon why we have a shared responsability not to bring these resistancy factors into existence, after which they'd 'infect' every other beecolony on earth. This 'epidemy' of resistance would obviously make it very hard to control mites any more thereafter.. sincerely, Hugo -- Hugo Veerkamp ------------------------------------------------------------------- | Email: BEENET INTERNATIONAL | | hug.bee@beenet.iwg.nl | mail : the Bee bbs | | | P.O. BOX 51008 | | | 1007EA AMSTERDAM | | | The Netherlands | | Beenet : 240:31/0 | modem: +31 20 6764105 | | Fidonet: 2:2801/28 | voice: +31 20 6715663 | ------------------------------------------------------------------ V.Mites from ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 19 Nov 1995 17:19:49 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Kevin Grabow Subject: Re: tracheal mites and grease patties In a message dated 95-11-18 17:52:19 EST, you write: >> If a grease patty works against tracheal mites by greasing or oiling >>a bee's body, has anyone tried spraying cooking & baking oil (PAM is one > >YUCKeeee!!! Come on you guys this is getting beyond a joke. Why not throw in >the kitchen sink while your at it? All this mucking about to save the cost >of requeening. >I've noticed this about bee keepers, they'll waste $500 worth of time to >save $5 cash. >A requeen will cost $11US is it worth all the trouble? Also, think of the >cost of losing a hive if your ideas don't work!! I requeen everyother year and tracheal mites are still a major problem for me. I treat for varroa and tracheal mites in addition to requeening. If there's a cheaper and easier way to treat the bees I'm all for it, including the use of PAM. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 20 Nov 1995 11:25:02 +0100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jean-Marie Van Dyck Subject: Biological treatment against Varroa ? On Sat, 18 Nov 1995, David Eyre wrote : > The Varroa trap, locking up the Queen, call it what you will. It > really is a viable method, used in Europe for many years. Ok David, it's a system I use for about 4-5 years in my production hives(12). They are Dadant hives (12x 435x300mm frames) plus a 13th smaller one (375x230mm) perpendicular in the back wall. This last is mounted without a full foundation but only a 2 cm on the top. This frame, well protected by a glass AND a 4 cm styrofoam door (fax sketch on request at my email address - not at the list please!) IS ALWAYS built in drone cells AND the queen lays eggs regularly in it (locking the queen is not necessary). After about a week, the frame is full of eggs and larvas. You see it across the glass at this view frame. After another week, they are capped. At this time I *only* replace this by another new one. Without remove any super, without even open the hive (just a bit smoke ... time : 30 seconds)! Interesting remarks: you may see the bees without any smoke ! And all is in order when the frame is built - the hive is getting ready his swarming when not ! 2 possibilities I used : I put these frames for the drone production in some small hives (about english standard WBC hives) in which I'm making my new queens. With Apistan strip while the drones are emerging but not each time. After examination of the Varroa infestation, I give this brood as a vitaminated dessert to the honds of my neighbour. > The only drawback is that it is very labour intensive, not really > suitable for commercial operations. My processing is less labour intensive but seems it's too much for the professionnals yet. > In fact some organic beekeepers use nothing else!!! NOW ! I DON'T KNOW ANY BEEKEEPER WHO USE NOTHING ELSE !!! I use Apistan strips after my last honey crop and I'm able to estimate at 400-600 the number of killed Varroa at this time. It's obviously less than the 1500-2000 found in some hives. Personnally I would not dare don't use a annual chemical treatment. The biological one was only to keep my bees in a good fitness along the year. > One final point, has anybody thought of the effect of formic acid a > dangerous corrosive) on the sensory pads of bees feet.? Not only the bees feet but moreover the bees *smell* so important to the foragers. I have already given my opinion about this hard product. Regards Jean-Marie Lat.Long. : N:50.30' E:04.56' - Alt. : 200 m - North sea : 200 km ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Jean-Marie Van Dyck Fax +32 81 72 42 72 B.P. 102 email : jmvandyck@cc.fundp.ac.be B-5000 NAMUR(Belgium) Medical school - Biochemistry dept This => C'est ma facon de parler ! ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 20 Nov 1995 05:51:43 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ron Harriger Subject: PASSING OF A BEE KEEPER Fellow Bee Keepers, My friend and fellow bee keeper passed away. Irwin Myers was 88 years old when he went to be with the Lord. Not many folks would know him because he was neither wealthy nor famous but even so the loss is great. In recent years he became too weak and frail to maintain and care for bees. My neighbor told me of his plight so I set up a hive near his house where he could enjoy watching the bees come and go. Often, when I went to tend the hive, we would sit under a tree a few feet away and watch the bees and reminisce. We spent many hours enjoying these marvelous insects and Irwin would share his experiences with the bees. He spoke of the times they would move their hives at night with a horse drawn wagon and many other stories to numerous to tell. Yes, I will miss this old man but that is not the reason I write. Sometimes we are so involved in trying to find the perfect honey bee, one that is not only mite resistant but produces hundreds of pounds of honey, that we have little time to pass down to beginners the gems that we have found along lifes travels. Irwin took the time to add a little seasoning to this bee keepers life. I would encourage each of you, if given such an opportunity and honor, to enrich another life by giving of your bee keeping experiences much the same way Irwin Myers has done for me. I believe that he has gone to Heaven where the bees are as gentle as kittens and produce more honey than one can imagine. Someday we will once again sit under a tree and watch these marvelous insects gather pollen and nectar. Ron Harriger 100 Rhoades St. Cambridge Springs Pa. 16403 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 20 Nov 1995 08:07:41 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: JOHN IANNUZZI Subject: T-Mite Treatment Comments: To: cscua@albany.edu F1sep and again a week latert--in other words, just two treatments. riends, 1. To treat for tracheal mites, I saturated a paper towel w/ the cheapest vegetable oil I can find and place the sheet on top of the frames between the two deep broodchambers Hand repeat the process a week later. (This machine is acting funny & I have no control over it. Must be at the other end.) 2. I don't use menthol crystals nor anything else and my bees come out of the winter as well as anybody else's. 3. BTW, a strong colony will chew up the paper and cast it from the hive w/in a week or the fuzzy cotton-like balls can be seen in the pollen trap. 4. Does anybody know of a cheaper/easier way to get the slimy stuff alll over tghe little ladies' bodies? 5. Have been using this method ever since the T-mite swanm across the Rio Grande bout 10? years ago, about which time I was shocked to lose 20 of 24 (yes, 20 of 24) colonies. Cheers. Jack the B-man.] John Iannuzzi PhD * "Singing masons building roofs 9772 Old Annapolis Rd * of gold." --Shakespeare Ellicott City MD 21042 usa * 20 Italian colonies ji0079@epfl2.epflbalto.org * 3-1/2 decades in beedom ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 20 Nov 1995 08:01:24 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "John A. Halstead" Subject: Dr. H. Shimanuki to speak On the evening of December 11th, Dr. Shimanuki, Research Director at the National Bee Research Laboratory in Beltsville, Maryland, will be the guest of the Tidewater Beekeepers. This will be the annual Christmas dinner meeting of the Tidewater Beekeeper Association of Southeast Virginia. Those who would be in the Norfolk, Virginia Beach area of Southeast Virginia on December 11th, and wish to attend, may call for details: Art Halstead at (804) 488 7617 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 20 Nov 1995 15:02:59 GMT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Steve Pearce Subject: Ty1-copia retrotransposons Dear everyone, Has anyone ever studied the Ty1-copia like retrotransposons is bees? Dr Steve Pearce Biochemistry University of Dundee ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 20 Nov 1995 09:36:00 -0800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Paul van Westendorp of AGF 576-5600 Fax: 576-5652" Subject: Re: BEE-L Digest - 17 Nov 1995 to 18 Nov 1995 Brian Tassey, In response to your two postings; 1. For several years, work has been done on developing a 'gelled Formic Acid' formulation in order to reduce the applicator's exposure, and have a prolonged, slow release application of FA. This was initiated and supported by MEDIVET Pharmaceuticals of High River, Alberta (ph. (403) 652-4441 / fx. (403) 652-3692). There have been several collaborators with the testing, but the principal investigator has been my colleague, Kerry Clark in Dawson Creek (KCLARK@galaxy.gov.bc.ca). Although the product is not ready for releasr at this time, you may contact these parties directly for more information. 2. Amitraz is undoubtedly very effective in controlling mites. However, its toxicity profile and the nature of this product would make me think twice ever to use on my bees. In 1990, I wrote a short article on the product in response to the concern that Amitraz was going to be used in similar fashion as has been reported on Apistan in northern Italy; dipping plywood or cardboard strips in a solution. Amitraz is an incomparably more dangerous substance than some of the pyrethroids and I am not so surprised that the product is no longer legally available for use in bee hives. Paul van Westendorp pvanwesten@galaxy.gov.bc.ca Provincial Apiarist British Columbia ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 20 Nov 1995 13:31:35 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Dave D. Cawley" Subject: Re: re skunks and bee stings Comments: To: Liz Day In-Reply-To: <199511110428.XAA14867@indy2.indy.net> Then again , I know people who hop and dance from the heat of the peppers they consume and find it exellerting...*shrug* ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Dave D. Cawley | Where a social revolution is pending and, University Of Scranton | for whatever reason, is not accomplished, ddc1@jaguar.uofs.edu | reaction is the alternative. ddc1@SCRANTON | -Daniel De Leon ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 20 Nov 1995 16:57:23 -0800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Roy Nettlebeck Subject: Elevation and Varroa To All: This fall I came across an interseting situation. I took 60 hives out of the Olympic mountains on September 17, 1995. They were at 3,000 + for 2 months. I left 18 hives on the mountain until October 16,1995. On October 20, I went in all the hives to put in Apistan strips. What I found was, 30 hives of the first 60 that were removed from the mountain were dead or very close to it ,by the Varroa mite. The last 18 hives that I removed from the mountain had some mites , but were not in trouble. The bees were removed from the mountain in random order. I did not seperate them by any order. I need some ideas on why the bees that were left on the mountain seem to be much less affected by the mite. Weather was not much of a factor. The temp was about 5 F less on the mountain at night. Any Ideas? Thank You Roy Nettlebeck ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 20 Nov 1995 22:30:38 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Dirk Howard Subject: Elevation and Varroa -Reply I would not count on the elevation being the factor here. I know of many beekeepers here in Utah that lost as many as 50% of their hives or more to Varroa. Most bee yards here will be located in elevations ranging from 4,000 ft to 5,000 ft. I suspect that other intermountain beekeepers have also seen Varroa kills at their elevations. Maybe Jerry can let us know what he has seen in Montana. Anyone in Colorado or Wyoming? Maybe there is some other correlation. Maybe there is none at all. Dirk Howard Hobbiest Beekeeper in Utah Currently with 3 hives looking to expand. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 21 Nov 1995 14:35:05 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Whitney S. Cranshaw" Subject: Re: Mite Solution Again, I find an article advertisement in our local beekeepers newsletter touting the product "Mite Solution". This time there are some details: it contains petroleum jelly, some "NATURAL BOTANICAL EXTRACT" , and is applied on mouse guards or queen excluders. It has a US patent pending number. Pest control inferences are primarily for tracheal mites and varroa mites (featured at the top of the flier). In the body of the text claims for reductions of chalk brood, EFB, AFB, and nosema are made, as the product is purportedly a "natural fungicide and antiseptic". Testimonials are included, but the manufacturer/distributor claims it can't be registered as a "miticide" until $2,274,500 (US) in registration fees are paid. Is there >anything< to back up this product or is it a total scam? Whitney Cranshaw Department of Entomology Colorado State University Ft. Collins, CO 80523 wcransha@ceres.agsci.colostate.edu ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 21 Nov 1995 17:56:14 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: David Eyre Subject: Re: Biological treatment against Varroa ? >On Sat, 18 Nov 1995, David Eyre wrote : > >> The Varroa trap, locking up the Queen, call it what you will. It >> really is a viable method, used in Europe for many years. > >Ok David, it's a system I use for about 4-5 years in my production >hives(12). They are Dadant hives (12x 435x300mm frames) plus a 13th I agree with what you are doing, but I would suggest perhaps you would get even better results in the quantity of Varroa trapped if the frame was in the centre of the brood rather than on the outside. The idea of using a trap, is to force the queen to lay drone brood at a time of year i.e. early or late season, when she would not normally be laying drone brood. ************************************************************ * David J. Eyre CEO 9, Progress Drive, Unit 2, * * The Beeworks Orillia, Ont, Canada, L3V 6H1 * * beeworks@muskoka.net (705) 326 7171 * * http.//www.muskoka.net/~beeworks * ************************************************************* ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 21 Nov 1995 17:56:09 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: David Eyre Subject: Re: tracheal mites and grease patties Kevin Grabow wrote > I requeen every other year and tracheal mites are still a major problem for >me. I treat for varroa and tracheal mites in addition to requeening. Sorry, in my original message I failed to add the words "Trachael mite resistant Queens" I assumed, incorrectly, that you knew that Ontario has Resistant Queens. At the risk of getting flamed for advertising on the 'net perhaps I should explain. About 5 years ago, Dr.Medhat Nasr and the Ontario Beekeepers Assoc. formed The Ontario BeeBreeders Assoc. a loose group dedicated to breeding a Trachael (T mite) resistant strain. Dr. Nasr and others designed a scientific test to quantify the resistance or lack of it to any bees tested.(If I have enough requests I will write up the method). When they first started there were up to 200 mites per bee. Our tests this year were less than half a mite in less than 25% of our bees. What this means is instead of suffocating, the bees can cope with our level of infestation. I read an analogy which I think explains the problem. T mites are like double pneumonia and Varroa is like a vampire bat. When a hive dies, which one killed it? Most people would say the one that is most visible, ie Varroa, whereas in fact it could well have been T mites. I've been raising Queen's for many years, 2 years ago I learned of this program and now this year our 16 breeder hives have all been tested, every one of them are T mite resistant. There are approx 22 breeders in the program some have achieved T mite resistance some haven't. So you can understand why I was astounded to see the length some are going to, to medicate for T mites. A simple re-queen and goodbye to Menthol, Crisco, Formic Acid and all the other weird and wonderful concoctions. If anyone wants a list of the Breeders please e-mail me direct. ************************************************************ * David J. Eyre CEO 9, Progress Drive, Unit 2, * * The Beeworks Orillia, Ont, Canada, L3V 6H1 * * beeworks@muskoka.net (705) 326 7171 * * http.//www.muskoka.net/~beeworks * ************************************************************* ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 21 Nov 1995 18:06:02 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: David Eyre Subject: Re: Mite Solution >Again, I find an article advertisement in our local beekeepers newsletter >touting the product "Mite Solution". > >This time there are some details: it contains petroleum jelly, some >"NATURAL BOTANICAL EXTRACT" , and is applied on mouse guards or queen Beaverlodge, Alberta, have been doing some work on Neem, a natural miticide, from a tree extract, studies are ongoing. Could this be it? This sounds too good to be true, but let's keep an open mind!! ************************************************************ * David J. Eyre CEO 9, Progress Drive, Unit 2, * * The Beeworks Orillia, Ont, Canada, L3V 6H1 * * beeworks@muskoka.net (705) 326 7171 * * http.//www.muskoka.net/~beeworks * ************************************************************* ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 21 Nov 1995 18:12:43 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: BusyKnight Subject: Re: tracheal mites and grease patties >About 5 years ago, Dr.Medhat Nasr and the Ontario Beekeepers Assoc. >formed The Ontario BeeBreeders Assoc. a loose group dedicated to breeding a >Trachael (T mite) resistant strain. Isn't this what Brother Adam claims to have done back in about 1920? BusyKnight busykngt@airmail.net ICBM INcode:N:32.45'W:96.45' Dallas, Republic of Texas Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is an absurd one. - Voltaire ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 21 Nov 1995 18:18:24 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jerry J Bromenshenk Subject: Re: Beltsville Bee Lab Address In-Reply-To: <951110160843_18687018@mail04.mail.aol.com> from "David Morris" at Nov 10, 95 04:50:40 pm It's nice to have the list, but is far from complete. Maybe someone in each state could forward the appropriate names to the magazine. Jerry Bromenshenk jjbmail@selway.umt.edu ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 21 Nov 1995 18:25:45 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jerry J Bromenshenk Subject: Re: Elevation and Varroa -Reply In-Reply-To: from "Dirk Howard" at Nov 20, 95 10:30:38 pm Hi: Well, I can assure you all that 3000+ feet has no discernible effect on supressing varroa mites. In Montana, most of us live at that elevation or higher. For example, Bozeman and Butte are above 5000 ft. We all get varroa mite and it kills our bees. Last two years, our hobbiests have all got it and their colonies are dropping left and right, unless they treated. Jerry Bromenshenk The University of Montana Missoula, MT jjbmail@selway.umt.edu ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 21 Nov 1995 18:30:56 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jerry J Bromenshenk Subject: New Topic Ok, the skunk question generated some new discussion. I've tried the pepper, not much luck. The nail trick works. Best solution, if you can afford it, is to raise the hives on stands. Put my whole research yard on big "sawhorses", lifting the hive up about 20 inches from the ground. Skunks aren't good climbers and aren't very tall. Lots of tracks, but no digging and no pellets full of bees - best solution I've found in 20 years. Easy for a hobbiest, impractical for a commercial beekeeper. An added plus, sure saves the back. New question: Our bees that fly between their hive and feeders in an indoor flight chamber appear to bloat on sugar solution. The abdomen bulges, extends, and they walk around dragging it and seem incapable of flying. Train them to use water in a separate feeder and this problem seems to go away. We were using a heavy syrup. Any ideas of what is happening here? We have some guesses, but no answers. Jerry Bromenshenk jjbmail@selway.umt.edu ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 22 Nov 1995 00:00:44 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Andrea Seymore (sar)" Subject: Suggestions needed for interactive bee exhibit in a children's museum. I am a student at New College of USF in Sarasota. As part of a tutorial, I must present a design for the honeybee exhibit at the Gulf Coast Children's Museum (along with an estimate of material prices). The actual hive is already in place. It is thin with plexiglass on two sides to allow for easy viewing of the bee's activities. A tube through the wall provides access to the outside. As yet, there is no informational material whatsoever surrounding it. I was wondering if anyone might be able to suggest some creative ideas about how to present a large and varied amount of information about bees (including non-Apis bees). Ideally, since this type of museum is supposed to have interactive exhibits, there should be opportunities for some sort of manipulation or active involvement in the material's presentation. Also, since the people visiting the museum will (hopefully) be of many different ages and levels of education, the exhibit should be structured so that it is interesting and understandable in some way to a young child and at the same time informative and challenging to an educated adult. Any ideas for a game that isn't easily broken and doesn't have lots of little loseable, swallowable pieces would be good. I will greatly appreciate any suggestions you might have. I want to make sure that the museum visitors understand what incredible animals bees are. Thank-you, Andrea seymore@virtu.sar.usf.edu ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 22 Nov 1995 00:33:01 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Dave D. Cawley" Subject: Re: rresistance factors > From: Hugo Veerkamp > it is better policy to implement a mite control scheme based on > one of these pyrethroids alternating with a totally different > chemical treatment, such as formic- or lactic acid. Alternating > two chemicals from the same group would merely enhance general > resistance to the group as a whole. The only forms of lactic acid I know of are in dairy products and my muscles after a good workout. What is the form you're refering to and what does it do? ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Dave D. Cawley | The information on the Internet is only University Of Scranton | interesting to people who are interested Scranton, Pennsylvania | in it. dave@scranton.com | -Scranton Tomorrow Spokeswoman ddc1@jaguar.uofs.edu | refusing invitation to Internet Cafe's opening ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 22 Nov 1995 10:02:35 CST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Vladimir Ptacek Subject: Re: Elevation and Varroa -Reply According to our experiences, here in the central Europe, the demage of the late summer and early autumn bee generations in the larval stage caused by Varroas is the main reason of the disapearing of bees from hives early in the winter. Colonies are not able to develop a quality winter generation and bees soon die out. I would say that Roy's colonies were equally hit by mites but those moved a month earlier died simply due to the stress caused by the transport. If this is true the other portion first left in silence and than moved later would die again about withing a month. The protection of the winter generation during its larval development is one of the main points in the complex of measures against Varroa. Best regards, Vladimir Ptacek ptacek@sci.muni.cz phone: .42/5/41129 562 Fac. Sci., Dpt. Anim. Physiol. fax: .42/5/41211 214 Masaryk University. 611 37 Brno, Czech Republ. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 22 Nov 1995 10:26:34 GMT+0100 Reply-To: anthony@iet.hist.no Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "MORGAN, ANTHONY" Subject: Bee Sting Treatments etc. Hei! I attended a meeting yesterday with the subject "herbal cures and homeopathy". I am still sceptical to say the least about highly diluted solutions and their possibility of having an effect - but many present were convinced that they had seen cures or themselves had been cured by such "medicines". As a beekeeper I asked whether bee venom or propolis were used in homeopathic medicine and got a somewhat negative reply, which was followed by the following statement:- There is available a homeopathic "medicine" known as Apis Mellifica which is an extract of whole bees prepared in alcohol and then diluted by many factors of 10 (presumably in water, this wasnt clear). This agent was claimed to work for ordinary bee sting discomfort, massive allergic reactions and also for long term desensitising. Has anyone heard of this before? Have I misunderstood ? Is it just non-substantiated rubbish, or what?? As a subsidiary question, what would end up in such an alcohol extract? Cheers Tony. --------------------------------------------------------------- Anthony N. Morgan (Tony) Fax: +47 73 89 62 86 "Stavshagen" E-mail: anthony@iet.hist.no Midtsandan Sor-Trondelag College 7563 MALVIK Elec. Eng. Department Norway 7005 TRONDHEIM, Norway ---------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 22 Nov 1995 16:09:26 +0200 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Boker Subject: propolis Hello, My name is Rakefet and I learn in the Environmental High School in the Negev desert in Israel. I want to do a research project on the subject of propolis, on which not a lot is known in Israel. If you could possibly send me information about propolis, articles or anything pertaining to this subject, or any pointers to sites on the Internet which have info on this subject - I will be very happy and thankful to receive it and broaden my knowledge of the subject. Thank you very much, Rakefet Shalev Please send any information to the following Email address: boker@zeus.datasrv.co.il ___________________________________________________________________________ | David Lloyd, Hannah Sivan ____ | | The High School for Environmental Studies / \ We teach IN the | | Sde-Boker, ISRAEL 84990 / \ Environment, ON | | E-mail ____/ \ the Environment | | URL: http://snunit.huji.ac.il/snunit_e/school/main.htm | | Voice 972-7-565897 / \ and FOR the | | Fax 972-7-556286 -------------/ \___ Environment| --------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 22 Nov 1995 10:26:56 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: JOHN IANNUZZI Subject: Funny Queen Bgo a friend in central Maryland, who hasd colony. Two weeks later,that hive, riddled with wax moth, had no bees left but two. E QUEEN, stillalive. John Iannuzzi PhD * "Singing masons building roofs 9772 Old Annapolis Rd * of gold." --Shakespeare Ellicott City MD 21042 usa * 20 Italian colonies ji0079@epfl2.epflbalto.org * 3-1/2 decades in beedom ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 22 Nov 1995 12:15:29 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: David Clayton Subject: Beekeeping Reading List (first shot) This is the first iteration on the reading list I promised. The books prefaced with an asterisk are ones I have seen advertised or in book- stores recently and so assume are still available. The others are a case of "don't-know" and may still be available also. Books followed with a '+' are ones recommended by several people. I'm sure there are many other favorite books out there and I'd like to update this list both as others provide me with new entries and as I encounter new books myself. So if you have a favorite (old or new), please share it. Dave Clayton (dclayton@uriacc.uri.edu) =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Beekeeping Instructional Books The Beekeepers Handbook; Diana Sammataro & Alphonse Avitabile + * Beekeeping: A Practical Guide; Dick Bonney + Beekeeping: An Illustrated Handbook; Diane G. Stelley * First Lessons in Beekeeping; Dadant & Company Guide to Bees and Honey; Ted Hooper * The How-To-Do-It Book of Beekeeping; Richard Taylor * The Complete Guide to Beekeeping; Roger Morse + Practical Beekeeping; Enoch Tompkins and Roger M. Griffith Beekeeping General Reading * A Book of Bees; Sue Hubbell + * Following the Bloom; Douglas Whynott The Honey Bee; Gould and Gould * The Queen Must Die; William Longgood Beekeeping Reference * ABC and XYZ of Bee Culture; AI Root Company + American Honey Plants; Frank Pellet * The Hive and the Honey Bee; Dadant Company + Illustrated Encyclopedia of Beekeeping; Morse and Hooper + This is by no stretch of the imagination "my" list and I'd like to thank Paul Barnum, Richard Bonney, Jeremy Burbidge, Mike Killoran, W. Miller, Dave Morris, Kevin Parsons and Gordon Scott for their contributions. If I missed anyone who sent me information please send me a reminder. =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- David Clayton; Academic Computing "On the larger scale of history, the U. of Rhode Island; Kingston, RI 02881 scythe is really only a few steps Internet: dclayton@uriacc.uri.edu away from the computer." -Living at the End of Time ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 22 Nov 1995 14:49:41 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Aaron Morris Subject: test test please ignore. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 22 Nov 1995 15:00:14 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Aaron Morris Subject: The "Mite Solution" solution... Comments: cc: postmast@cnsibm.albany.edu This was posted earlier, but it didn't make it through. Very curious. Appologies in advance if multiple copies make it to the list. I think the most authoritative answer to the "Mite Solution" query would come from Nick Calderone. I believe that Nick currently works in Beltsville, Md.. It was announced at the Empire State Beekeepers' Association recently that Nick will replace Roger Morse at Cornell who will retire (or has already(?) soon. Nick has been investigating plant extracts and other biological controls for varroa to develop an IPM (Integrated Pest Management) program. I don't know how to contact Nick electronically but perhaps someone on this list can. Diana? It would be nice to hear more about "Mite Solution". Searching the archives shows that the question has been asked a few times (see below), but no one seems willing or able to offer testimony. Aaron Morris - Thinking: "Happy Thanksgiving Bee Folk!" (Appologies to the international folks who don't celebrate.) > ======================= From BEE-L LOG9507 ========================== > > ... > I found an article in the June 28, 1995-p23 issue of Ag Alert. > USDA tests new way to fight mites. > > U.S. Dept of Ag researchers say they are testing a concoction of natural > plant oils in a new attack on mites-the biggest threat to domestic > honeybees. > > Laboratory and small-scale field tests have shown the blend of plant > extracts is effective against both tracheal and Varroa mites, which have > been a growing problem across the country since the mid-1980s. > > Now, ARS scientists are conducting larger studies in four states to see > how well the extracts work in commercial apiaries. > > "We still have a long way to go before we have a commercial product, > but we are encouraged," said Nick Calderone, an ARS entomologist whose > comments were published in the June issue of the agency's Agricultural > Research magazine. > > "These compounds exhibit a significant potential for controlling > mites and may be effective against some honeybee diseases," he said. > > SNIP SNIP SNIP cut out some general info > > The plant extracts ARS has been using have been shown to be effective > against both types of mites and don't harm the bees, Calderone said. > > Large-scale field tests are being conducted at commercial apiaries in > Harrisonburg, Va., and Mercersberg, Pa.; in Texas in cooperation with > the ARS as Weslaco; and at the University of Minnesota. > > As they continue to test the extracts, researchers also are trying to > develop a way to apply the compounds with as little work as possible. > > A final step that would be needed is regulatory approval from the EPA. > > Calderone said he hopes to find a mixture of extracts that would kill > both types of mites. > > Now, the blend used against Varroa mite is primarily thymol and > eucalyptus oil. This mixture killed 98% of Varroa mites and was as > effective as the fluvalinate strips, researchers said. > > For tracheal mites, the oils are from peanuts, sunflowers, rapeseed, > or soybeans and mixed into sugar patties. Between 1.5% and 2.5% of the > bees were found to be infected after their hives were treated with this > compound, compared with 10% in untreated colonies. > .... ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 22 Nov 1995 16:35:18 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: David Eyre Subject: Re; Resistant Queens Hello, I recently posted an article on T-mite resistant Queens we are raising. We have been inundated with requests for information etc. It would be almost impossible to answer each individually, so, please be patient. I propose to write up the full method and other pertinent information, and will post it to all in the next few days. Regards..... ************************************************************ * David J. Eyre CEO 9, Progress Drive, Unit 2, * * The Beeworks Orillia, Ont, Canada, L3V 6H1 * * beeworks@muskoka.net (705) 326 7171 * * http.//www.muskoka.net/~beeworks * ************************************************************* ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 23 Nov 1995 09:30:37 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Donna Nimey Subject: Re: Suggestions needed for interactive bee exhibit in a children's museum. wondering if you would be willing to share any response you get with me. i am the group leader for a new 4h group and am interested in doing a unit on bees, also a new beekeeper. thanks ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 23 Nov 1995 09:36:36 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: JOHN IANNUZZI Subject: FunnyQueenBis Hereit is again. Sorry for the first corruption. Several weeks agao a friend in central Maryland usa, who has been keeping honeybees longer than I, removed two shallow supers of honey from a strong doublebrooded colony. two weeks later, that hive, riddled with wax moth, had no bees left but two. On a top bar, he found ONE worker bee and the QUEEN, still alive. Has anybody out there ever hear of/experienced this B4? I haven't in 35 consecutive years of apiculture. Ciao. John Iannuzzi PhD * "Singing masons building roofs 9772 Old Annapolis Rd * of gold." --Shakespeare Ellicott City MD 21042 usa * 20 Italian colonies ji0079@epfl2.epflbalto.org * 3-1/2 decades in beedom ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 23 Nov 1995 16:44:21 +0100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jean-Marie Van Dyck Subject: Re: FunnyQueenBis Hello Jack ! This kind of collapse may be the work of Varroa not treated for a couple of year : the hive seems quite good and after the automn crop she falls in. It's late but : treat quickly the other hives before they also are falling. Hope this helps. Jean-Marie ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 23 Nov 1995 18:23:41 +0100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jean-Marie Van Dyck Subject: Re: FunnyQueenBis (english correction) Sorry All ! While relecture of my word I believed that "automn" is a french word for "fall" Some had correct that ! JM ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 23 Nov 1995 12:10:00 PST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Michael Hagmeier Subject: anti-septic qualities of beeswax? hello, everyone. i'm not a beekeeper, i'm didjeridu player. a didjeridu (for those of you who don't know, which may be many of you) is a musical instrument of australian aboriginal origins. it's essentially a hollow tube which the player blows in. traditional aboriginal instruments are made out of eucalyptus branches that have been hollowed out by termites. in this country, people make didjes out of yucca and agave. some people also construct didjes out of various materials, including different types of would and even pvc and abs pipe. what does all this have to do with beekeeping? well, the most common material used for the mouthpiece is beeswax. the question came up recently as to risk of infection (colds, herpes, bacterial infections, etc.) from sharing instruments. i know that honey is an effective anti-bacterial agent (i've used it with success myself), but didn't know if beeswax has any similar properties. if it does, is its effectiveness limited to bacteria, or is it also effective against viruses? does the fact that the microbes would be sitting on (rather than, say, covered by) the beeswax affect its effectiveness? thanks. michael ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 23 Nov 1995 15:59:59 -0800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ann Dougherty Subject: Re: FunnyQueenBis In-Reply-To: <9511231436.AA03609@epfl2> I had a hive that died from varroa one winter and literally the only bee left in the hive was the queen. It was quite weird. Although I set a record for finding the queen in a hive! On Thu, 23 Nov 1995, JOHN IANNUZZI wrote: > Hereit is again. Sorry for the first corruption. > Several weeks agao a friend in central Maryland usa, who > has been keeping honeybees longer than I, removed two > shallow supers of honey from a strong doublebrooded > colony. two weeks later, that hive, riddled with wax > moth, had no bees left but two. > On a top bar, he found ONE worker bee and the QUEEN, > still alive. > Has anybody out there ever hear of/experienced this B4? > I haven't in 35 consecutive years of apiculture. Ciao. > John Iannuzzi PhD * "Singing masons building roofs > 9772 Old Annapolis Rd * of gold." --Shakespeare > Ellicott City MD 21042 usa * 20 Italian colonies > ji0079@epfl2.epflbalto.org * 3-1/2 decades in beedom > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 23 Nov 1995 18:24:54 +0000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Gordon Scott Subject: Re: Biological treatment against Varroa ? In-Reply-To: <199511212256.RAA14032@segwun.muskoka.net> On Tue, 21 Nov 1995, David Eyre wrote: > The idea of using a trap, is to force the queen to lay drone brood > at a time of year i.e. early or late season, when she would not > normally be laying drone brood. Not necessarily. A common method here it to constrain the queen three times in succession onto different combs. This forces the varroa to lay in the _only cells available for capping_ over that period, whether worker or drone! Regards, -- Gordon Scott gordon@apis.demon.co.uk Hampshire, England. gordon@multitone.co.uk Beekeeper; Kendo 3rd Dan; Sometime sailor. The Basingstoke Beekeeper (newsletter) beekeeper@apis.demon.co.uk ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 23 Nov 1995 23:08:34 +0000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Gordon Scott Subject: Re: FunnyQueenBis (english correction) In-Reply-To: <95112318234112@quick.cc.fundp.ac.be> On Thu, 23 Nov 1995, Jean-Marie Van Dyck wrote: > While relecture of my word I believed that "automn" is a french > word for "fall" Some had correct that ! "Fall" is the American word for "Autumn" in English. ;-) Because the Norman invasion of England (1066) predates the discovery of America by Columbus. Who knows who for sure who got to America before Columbus? Best regards, -- Gordon Scott gordon@apis.demon.co.uk Hampshire, England. gordon@multitone.co.uk Beekeeper; Kendo 3rd Dan; Sometime sailor. The Basingstoke Beekeeper (newsletter) beekeeper@apis.demon.co.uk ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 23 Nov 1995 18:17:33 +0000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Gordon Scott Subject: Re: tracheal mites and grease patties In-Reply-To: <9511220012.AA12635@server.iadfw.net> On Tue, 21 Nov 1995, BusyKnight wrote: > >About 5 years ago, Dr.Medhat Nasr and the Ontario Beekeepers Assoc. > >formed The Ontario BeeBreeders Assoc. a loose group dedicated to breeding a > >Trachael (T mite) resistant strain. > > Isn't this what Brother Adam claims to have done back in about 1920? Yes it is and he succeeded well. Buckfast queens and indeed most UK raised queens are very resistant to T-mites _in_the_UK_. The trouble is, attempts to breed from UK queens in the US doesn't (didn't?) seem to have been able pass that resistance on into the US. I have wondered if the strain of T-mite was also different from that found here. Regards, -- Gordon Scott gordon@apis.demon.co.uk Hampshire, England. gordon@multitone.co.uk Beekeeper; Kendo 3rd Dan; Sometime sailor. The Basingstoke Beekeeper (newsletter) beekeeper@apis.demon.co.uk ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 23 Nov 1995 20:10:48 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Bill Miller Subject: Parasitic Mite Syndrome Diagnosis- Early Stages I'll throw out the following for review and comment: This August, one of my hives had what I first thought was European Foulbrood (bad brood pattern, and dead shrunken larvae in cells). An ether roll test got 10 Varroa mites/300 bees (~1% infection rate). The ether roll test results were about what I expected, as the colony had been treated with Apistan early this spring. The dead larvae were still white, everything was dry, and August was a dry month. One of our bee inspectors declared the problem to be the early stages of Parasitic Mite Syndrome (PMS, and I hope somebody thinks of a better acronym). Apistan strips were installed, and the problem had cleaned up when I next visited the colony 6 weeks later. Everything seems to fit the descriptions of PMS that I have read, except the low mite count on the ether roll survey. Anybody out there have similar experiences? W. G. Miller Gaithersburg, MD ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 23 Nov 1995 22:42:09 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Liz Day Subject: Re: Bee Sting Treatments etc. There is available a homeopathic "medicine" known as Apis Mellifica which is an extract of whole bees prepared in alcohol and then diluted by many factors of 10 (presumably in water, this wasnt clear). This agent was claimed to work for ordinary bee sting discomfort, massive allergic reactions and also for long term desensitising. Has anyone heard of this before? Have I misunderstood ? Is it just non-substantiated rubbish, or what?? --------------------------------------------------------------- Anthony N. Morgan (Tony) Fax: +47 73 89 62 86 "Stavshagen" E-mail: anthony@iet.hist.no Midtsandan Sor-Trondelag College 7563 MALVIK Elec. Eng. Department Norway 7005 TRONDHEIM, Norway ---------------------------------------------------------------- Well, that's how all the homeopathic remedies apparently work, something is diluted a great deal until only its "energy" is left (not my wording). I have no personal experience, but I wouldn't try the stuff if I were in the middle of a massive allergic reaction unless I were curious to see the next world. Liz Day LDAY@indy.net Indianapolis, Indiana, central USA ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 23 Nov 1995 22:23:12 -0800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Roy Nettlebeck Subject: Varroa and Elevation I was able to sub this list yesterday after a 2 day battle. I put in a note about having some bees up around 3,000 feet and leaving them up for a month longer than my first group I brought back down to sea level. The first group had a 50% loss do to Varroa, while the second group had some Varroa but did not fold.I'm after any ideas on why the bees left up in the mountains did not drop in population. I have been keeping bees for over 30 years and have known about varroa with very little loss.I have used apistan strips in the early spring and pull them around april 15 th. Any Ideas. Now I will be able to see some comments. Thank You Roy Nettlebeck ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 23 Nov 1995 08:02:21 +0100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Hugo Veerkamp Organization: Stichting InterWorld Subject: formic and lactic acid hi Dave! >> it is better policy to implement a mite control scheme based on >> one of these pyrethroids alternating with a totally different >> chemical treatment, such as formic- or lactic acid. Alternating >> two chemicals from the same group would merely enhance general >> resistance to the group as a whole. > The only forms of lactic acid I know of are in > dairy products and my > muscles after a good workout. What is the form you're > refering to and what does > it do? I was referring to the kind that comes in bottles, 100% pure if possible( the laboratory variety..) b.t.w. Formic acid also comes in a cheaper varieties, so called 'technical' F.A., but beware: it can still contain a lot of impurities that can damage your bees. So study the label for purity and refrain from using non-labeled F.A. ! Lactic acid has a somewhat similar effect as formic acid: it kills mites, as has been established by various bee-research centres here in Europe. Being of a smaller molecular structure then lactic acid, formic acid is lots more volatile then lactic, and thereby is able to penetrate even the cappings of closed broodcells to kill mites inside there. I have no data reg. the power of lactic acid available, but I am sure a litterature search would yield these data. Possibly a reader of this message can help us out here ? sincerely, Hugo -- ||| @ @ Hugo Veerkamp ----------oOO-(_)-OOo--------------------------------------------- | Email: BEENET INTERNATIONAL | | hug.bee@beenet.iwg.nl | mail : the Bee bbs | | | P.O. BOX 51008 | | | 1007EA AMSTERDAM | | | The Netherlands | | Beenet : 240:31/0 | modem: +31 20 6764105 | | Fidonet: 2:2801/28 | voice: +31 20 6715663 | ------------------------------------------------------------------ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 24 Nov 1995 07:52:52 GMT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Sid Pullinger Subject: Re: rresistance factors At 00:33 22/11/95 -0500, you wrote: >> From: Hugo Veerkamp >> it is better policy to implement a mite control scheme based on >> one of these pyrethroids alternating with a totally different >> chemical treatment, such as formic- or lactic acid. Alternating >> two chemicals from the same group would merely enhance general >> resistance to the group as a whole. > > The only forms of lactic acid I know of are in dairy products and my >muscles after a good workout. What is the form you're refering to and what does >it do? > >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~ >Dave D. Cawley | The information on the Internet is only >University Of Scranton | interesting to people who are interested >Scranton, Pennsylvania | in it. >dave@scranton.com | -Scranton Tomorrow Spokeswoman >ddc1@jaguar.uofs.edu | refusing invitation to Internet Cafe's opening >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~ > >Dear Dave, Lactic acid is available in powder form, not expensive, and is applied to the bees during routine inspections. It is shaken on from a home made pepper pot, a honey jar with small holes in the lid. The theory is that it caused the mites to lose their grip and fall to the floor. They are not killed so must be trapped by a sticky paper insert. I tape the paper to a stiff backing sheet to avoid buckling and coat the paper with a thin film of cooking oil, cheap and non-toxic. When dusting hold the combs at around forty five degrees, not horizontal, to avoid the dust falling into open brood. This treatment only affects the mites on the adult bees but it is non-toxic so can be applied when Apistan is not allowed. Used in conjunction with drone cell traps it helps keep down mite numbers during the active season. It is time consuming so not practical on a commercial basis, However, for the amateur with few stocks and time to spare it is an additional aid. S H P _________________________________________________________________ Sid Pullinger Email : sidpul@aladdin.co.uk 36, Grange Rd Compuserve: 100343.1216@compuserve.com Alresford Hants SO24 9HF England ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 24 Nov 1995 08:53:49 -0600 Reply-To: dicka@cuug.ab.ca Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Allen Dick Organization: The Beekeepers Subject: Periodic Posting - Booklist added Contents: 1.) Web access to BEE-l 2.) Email access to historical BEE-L discussions 3.) Dave Claton's Booklist now on website (NEW) 4.) How to ensure the logs are not too large to save in future There are two ways now to read back issues of BEE-L. ~~~~~~~~ 1. ) BEE-l can presently be read on the Worldwide Web by pointing your brouser at http://www.internode.net:80/~allend/index.html This is a NEW URL. You can also still get there from http://www.cuug.ab.ca:8001/~dicka The National (USA) Honey Board Database is also there to brouse or download. Most logs going back to 1991 are available on my web sites. Some are missing. If you have any old logs on hand that are not there, kindly forward them to me by email. If you have web access, either by PPP and a graphical brouser or by lynx (a UNIX brouser available on many UNIX shell accounts by typing the command 'lynx'), this is the fast, simple way to go. 2.) For those with no web access, logs are also available quite conveniently by email from LISTSERV@uacsc2.albany.edu However they only go back to 1994. Due to the increasing size of recent logs and limited space on the LISTSERV, the older logs have been displaced. To have a BEE-L log emailed to you: ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Just send a message with no subject (subject lines are ignored) to LISTSERV@uacsc2.albany.edu with the message GET BEE-L LOGMMYY Where MM is the month (ie. 05 for May) and YY is the year (ie. 95 for 1995). Additional logs requested can be added on up to four more lines in your message. Be aware of the spacing of the words (No space in LOG9505, for example). Leave out any other text -- such as .signatures. Additional text - other than lines with additional commands -- will trigger harmless error messages from the LISTSERV. The log will arrive some time later in your mailbox. Warning: logs can be 650 K in size. 3. Dave Clayton and friends have compiled a new beekeeping book list which is now at my www site: http://www.internode.net/~allend/booklist.html We expect this list will grow and add features in the future. Please contribute your ideas and comments to: Dave Clayton 4.)Please edit your contributions to BEE-L and leave off long sigs: ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Please, everyone, when posting to BEE-L, consider the size of your .signature file and limit the amount of previous articles quoted to what is necessary to understand your comments -- Thanks. Please edit out all signatures and unnecessary (irrelevant) parts of the quoted message to reduce the amount of material going into the logs. This will keep the size mangeable. The log for the present month is over 425K now -- and much of this is due to vanity sigs and over-quoting. What uses up space? Entire blank lines use only one byte, so feel free to use lots of blank lines if it makes your message easy to read. For example the previous (empty) line used only one byte! Part lines use one byte for each character visible plus one, so they are not wasteful either. The above partial line is 21 bytes because I did not add any spaces after the '.' '>' alone on a line is only two bytes. However the blank spaces in signatures, used to space things out, count one byte per space, or up to eighty bytes per line. For example: my sig below uses 216 bytes (54 bytes per line times four lines). This is equivalent to one four line paragraph of text. So, please don't quote it when you quote me. I hope this info is useful and encourages more compact logs without discouraging people from posting -- after all the posts are what make this list interesting and useful. Regards Allen W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper VE6CFK RR#1, Swalwell, Alberta Canada T0M 1Y0 Internet:dicka@cuug.ab.ca Honey. Bees, Art, & Futures ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 24 Nov 1995 10:09:59 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jerry J Bromenshenk Subject: Control of Tracheal Mites Hi: After 2 1/2 yrs of dissecting 20,0000 honey bees to look for tracheal mites, we are in the final stages of data processing and polishing articles on the research. We have also finally gotten our PC BEEPOP model completely re-written in C and C++ with a full mite simulation module - we've promised this before, but the model got so big and complex that my programmer's got over their heads in terms of being able to de-bug it. However, that changed in May when a new graduate student in computer science joined our research team. He got it working and we now trust it enough to start the test simulations. I expect to release a beta test version around Christmas time. In the meantime, some observations that may be of interest: 1) Tracheal mites appear to respond to cumulative stressors. The colonies starting with low levels of mites or low levels of environmental stress (in this case metals from a lead smelter) ended up surviving the longest and having the fewest bees with mites and the lowest number of mites per bee. As the stress and/or initial number of mites increased, the colonies died quicker (by as much as 6 - 8 months) and had more bees with mites and more mites per bee. No surprises here, but it certainly shows that the metals did not kill mites faster than bees. 2) Tracheal mite levels varied greatly over time in 48 test colonies in Montana and 12 test colonies in Arizona. Bottom line is that I would be willing to wager that no one can predict mite infection levels next month based on levels this month - and if you manage that one, you certainly can't predict them 6 months from now. In other words, worrying about whether to sample bees at the front entrance versus the honey supers to get the "best" estimate of mite levels (grab that last decimal point) is a mute point when the colony may have many times fewer or more mites next month. The data looks like a roller coaster. Yes, some colonies start low and stay low and some start high and stay high, and some progressively increase, but most jump around all over the place - like the colony that had 5% of the bees infected in December and died in April with virtually all of the bees with mites and most of these bees had mites in both tracheae. 3) Tracheal mite levels seemed to parallel varroa mite levels or vice versa. We started with colonies treated with Apistan that had traceal mites at different levels. We did not treat for any mites during the 24 months of testing. By the second year, all colonies had some varroa mite, but the smelter site had the worst infestations of varroa. More importantly, the higher the numbers of tracheal mites, the higher the numbers of varroa mites - at most sites. 4) We saw "PMS" in colonies with both mites and in colonies with mainly tracheal mite. Oh, I also agree, a most unfortunate acronym in this P.C. age. 5) Here's the kicker - our model outputs agree with Royce and others that swarming may control tracheal mites and that supressing swarming may encourage this mite ------ but our models go further and suggest that we are treating at the wrong time of year. Granted, if you have heavy tracheal mite infestations, your bees may have to be treated in the fall to "save" the bees, and yes, it is easier to treat in the fall after the honey is off (and no chance of contamination of honey). But, according to our preliminary simlulations (and I reserve the right to change my mind on this one if we find any more bugs in the model), killing 30% of the mites in spring and early summer will wipe out the mite population. Killing 20% of the mites will keep them in check (low levels). On the other hand, treatments in the fall have to kill virtually all of the mites if you hope to get long lasting control, and over 85% of the mites have to be killed to get any chance of suppression. Killing 30% of the mites in the fall does no good at all. The model and our data and the data of others demonstrate the potential for incredible numbers of mites in bees in fall and early winter. The percent of bees infested is not nearly as important as the total mite load - we've seen bees with over 60 mites per bee, compared to 6-10 max in the summer. That's a lot of mites. In cold climates like ours, brood rearing suspends from late Oct thru late January/early February. Looks like all those mites just keep producing mites with no where to go (no nice young new hosts). But, with the first wave of new bees, the mites can transfer. The model says that is the time to hit them, wipe out mites in the "old" hosts and protect the new bees. Reduce the mite levels during the spring build up and the bee colony will out pace the mites. At any other time of the year, this is difficult to do without almost total eradication of the mites - which is asking a lot of the fumigant. Based on the preliminary results of a "still" unverified model, I DON"T SUGGEST YOU COMPLETELY CHANGE YOUR TREATMENTS - especially if you have several thousand colonies. However, you might want to try a spring treatment on some of you colonies and see if it works better. The other option is to not treat at all as suggested by Erick Erickson. Let your bees die and re-establish your operation on the survivors, but I doubt that most of us can afford that drastic approach. Mite resistant queens may be out there, but I haven't been convinced that they are readily available and certified ( we've seen many of these so-called resistant bees come down with heavy mite loads - in one case we had "resistant" queens with 100-200 mites per queen. They were resistant in the sense that they were still alive - not doing much in terms of producing offspring, but still walking). Oh well, food for thought as you digest yesterday's turkey. Jerry Bromenshenk The University of Montana Missoual, MT jjbmail@selway.umt.edu ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 24 Nov 1995 19:55:53 +0000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Gordon Scott Subject: Re: BeeMaid products Hi, I knew I'd find them eventually if they were still trading. They have a nice product range -- I may start selling it! Honeycomb Cosmetics Old Acres Farm, Stour Provost, Gillingham, Dorset SP8 5LT Telephone +44 1747 838 055 Regards, -- Gordon Scott gordon@apis.demon.co.uk Hampshire, England. gordon@multitone.co.uk Beekeeper; Kendo 3rd Dan; Sometime sailor. The Basingstoke Beekeeper (newsletter) beekeeper@apis.demon.co.uk ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 24 Nov 1995 16:40:44 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: David Eyre Subject: Re: Biological treatment against Varroa ? >On Tue, 21 Nov 1995, David Eyre wrote: > >> The idea of using a trap, is to force the queen to lay drone brood >> at a time of year i.e. early or late season, when she would not >> normally be laying drone brood. > >Not necessarily. A common method here it to constrain the queen three >times in succession onto different combs. This forces the varroa to One major disadvantage would the amount of brood lost. I suppose the choice of losing a hive to Varroa, or having smaller hives due to brood loss, is an individuals choice! Either way it does break the dependance on chemistry. ************************************************************ * David J. Eyre CEO 9, Progress Drive, Unit 2, * * The Beeworks Orillia, Ont, Canada, L3V 6H1 * * beeworks@muskoka.net (705) 326 7171 * * http.//www.muskoka.net/~beeworks * ************************************************************* ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 24 Nov 1995 16:40:48 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: David Eyre Subject: Re: tracheal mites and grease patties >> >About 5 years ago, Dr.Medhat Nasr and the Ontario Beekeepers Assoc. >> >formed The Ontario BeeBreeders Assoc. a loose group dedicated to breeding a >> >Trachael (T mite) resistant strain. >> >> Isn't this what Brother Adam claims to have done back in about 1920? > >Yes it is and he succeeded well. Buckfast queens and indeed most >UK raised queens are very resistant to T-mites _in_the_UK_. > >The trouble is, attempts to breed from UK queens in the US doesn't >(didn't?) seem to have been able pass that resistance on into the US. That last statement is incorrect! Here in Ontario Canada we have T-mite resistance. Our breeding program added Buckfast to our Ontario bees and the resistance genes have been fixed. More to follow on our methods!!!! ************************************************************ * David J. Eyre CEO 9, Progress Drive, Unit 2, * * The Beeworks Orillia, Ont, Canada, L3V 6H1 * * beeworks@muskoka.net (705) 326 7171 * * http.//www.muskoka.net/~beeworks * ************************************************************* ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 24 Nov 1995 16:41:00 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: David Eyre Subject: Re: Varroa and Elevation > I was able to sub this list yesterday after a 2 day battle. > I put in a note about having some bees up around 3,000 feet and Glad you can join us!! I've seen others with this problem. Could it be that you did not move them with the necessary care? If it was a nice day, and you didn't do the right thing, then you would have left the field bees of the first group behind. They would have drifted back into the remaining hives, boosting their populations considerably. The first group under pressure from Varroa are now quite badly depleted with only house bees left, if the weather then goes cold they just do not have enough bees to form a good cluster. ************************************************************ * David J. Eyre CEO 9, Progress Drive, Unit 2, * * The Beeworks Orillia, Ont, Canada, L3V 6H1 * * beeworks@muskoka.net (705) 326 7171 * * http.//www.muskoka.net/~beeworks * ************************************************************* ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 24 Nov 1995 21:19:30 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Liz Day Subject: Re: BeeMaid products Ah HAH. Thank you! Now all I have to do is persuade them to ship by Christmas... :-) Their hand cream has a wonderful herbal odor (Don't know what herb/s exactly). Liz Day LDAY@indy.net Indianapolis, Indiana, central USA ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 25 Nov 1995 09:15:55 -0800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Roy Nettlebeck Subject: Re: Control of Tracheal Mites In-Reply-To: Hi That was a very interesting post.The fall treatment here in western washington is a must. Winter loss rate went up 4 to 5 times after the tracheal mite showed up here in the NW. I hear from other beekeepers in the area that one spraying of a mixture of sugar water and pepermint extract in the fall works for them. I have not tried it. I don't put anything on my bees without some research It seems like a fast way to treat for the tracheal mite. Roy ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 25 Nov 1995 10:20:23 -0800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Roy Nettlebeck Subject: Queen Evaluation Hello I have seen changes in bee behavior over the last 20 years.So about 3 years ago I started to evaluate the queens that I was getting.I would try to do at least 10 queens from one breeder. Below is a list of 10 things or behaviors that I was watching for.. QUEEN AND COLONY BEHAVIOR 1. Colony "noise" or sent fanning within the hive. 2. Queen loss. 3. Was queen lost within three to five weeks after introduction? 4. Are bees , moving slowly, or "runing" off the brood to the edges of the frames. 5. Bees paying little attention to the queen, the queen seen by herself on the comb. 6.Spotty brood patterns. 7. Slightly bullet shaped worker brood cell caps. 8. Very slow buildup. 9. Bees do not cluster properly, in temperstures below 55 F. 10. Bee temperment. Mild____ .Aggressive______. I have found that some of the queen pheromones have beenless than what is needed to control the hive.When I added 9-ODA to the hive on a piece of cotton, the hive went back to normal behavior. I have done this well over 100 times. I feel that we have a breeding problem in the USA. Many factors go into this problem.I have been looking at it from three breeding areas. Califonia, Texas and down south. Not one area is better than the other. I know some of my friends in California thought I was picking on them. Has anyone noticed a queen problem with supersedure or bees making more noise than normal. Thank You Roy ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 26 Nov 1995 00:35:44 +0100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Gunnar Soderlund Subject: More like didjeridu. :-) Hi Michael! My name is Gunnar Soederlund, and I am 19 years old. I am from Sweden. I have heard a lot of this that beevax is aniseptik, and good against desieses of different types. Even good to eat, more I don't know. But I wonder if You could tell me more about the didjeridu. I have allways been interested in aboriginees culture. And I would like to learn more about the didjeridu. How to play etc. Pleas tell me more, you could contact me via my private mail adress: astro@tripnet.se Hope to here from you soon, Gymper XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX X X X Gunnar Soderlund Phone: + 46-(0)303 22 96 63 X X Box 2042 Fax: + 46-(0)303 93 302 X X S-403 11 Gothenburg X X SWEDEN E-mail: astro@tripnet.se X X X XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 25 Nov 1995 11:41:46 +0100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Hugo Veerkamp Organization: Stichting InterWorld Subject: infant botulism hi all! back in 1988, Tom Sanford told us in his 'HINT for the Hive' #128, the following: ==================== Medical research has led doctors to conclude that one cause of so-called "crib death" or "sudden infant death syndrome" may in fact be due to infant botulism (food poisoning). A number of public health officials now believe there may be many unrecognized cases of this disease each year, and honey has been implicated as a cause in a few cases. Symptoms vary from mild to severe, =====cut============= After a program on this theme on Belgian teevee, some of us here got interested in it, and we are wondering if there is any new( since '88) info available on the subject. Your responses are greatly appreciated either to this list or to my email address below! sincerely, Hugo -- \|/ @ @ Hugo Veerkamp ----------oOO-(_)-OOo--------------------------------------------- | Email: BEENET INTERNATIONAL | | hug.bee@beenet.iwg.nl | mail : the Bee bbs | | | P.O. BOX 51008 | | | 1007EA AMSTERDAM | | | The Netherlands | | Beenet : 240:31/0 | modem: +31 20 6764105 | | Fidonet: 2:2801/28 | voice: +31 20 6715663 | ------------------------------------------------------------------ ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 26 Nov 1995 09:25:26 UT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: William Harper Subject: Solitary Apoidea - Captive Populations Does anyone know of any captive populations of solitary Apoidea? All information on solitary bees in the following areas would be most useful: -- Public and private insectaries with breeding populations: -- References to current or past captive management programs; -- Hobbyists and researchers with captive breeding experience; -- Commercial stock sources; and, -- Anyone with personal experience involving such population care. All leads, referrals or discussion would be greatly appreciated. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 26 Nov 1995 13:57:45 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: David Eyre Subject: Re: Queen Evaluation >years ago I started to evaluate the queens that I was getting.I would try> > QUEEN AND COLONY BEHAVIOR > > 1. Colony "noise" or sent fanning within the hive. > 2. Queen loss. > 3. Was queen lost within three to five weeks after introduction? > 4. Are bees , moving slowly, or "runing" off the brood to the edges >of the frames. > 5. Bees paying little attention to the queen, the queen seen by >herself on the comb. > 6.Spotty brood patterns. > 7. Slightly bullet shaped worker brood cell caps. > 8. Very slow buildup. > 9. Bees do not cluster properly, in temperstures below 55 F. > 10. Bee temperment. Mild____ .Aggressive______.. > Has anyone noticed a queen problem with supersedure or bees making more >noise than normal. It seems to me that you have problems with your breeders!!! No: 1 Somtimes caused by a badly mated Queen or the Queen absent. No: 2, 3, Superscedure is usually caused by something the bees detect, Ovaries damaged by Nosema, poor mating, Under fed by weak cell builders producing weak Queens. No: 4 Poorly selected stock, this Queen should not be a breeder Queen. No: 5 Caused by low or missing Queen pheromones (see No:4) No:6,7. Poor diversity ie.close relation mating. No. 8 Weak Queen, poor stock. No: 9 Bees bred in Southern climate will not do well in colder areas. Regretfully the drive for profit produces an evil master!! ************************************************************ * David J. Eyre CEO 9, Progress Drive, Unit 2, * * The Beeworks Orillia, Ont, Canada, L3V 6H1 * * beeworks@muskoka.net (705) 326 7171 * * http.//www.muskoka.net/~beeworks * ************************************************************* ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 26 Nov 1995 20:35:37 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Michael L. Wallace" Subject: Re: Queen Evaluation In response to your inquiry, Roy, about queens; Yes, I have seen a problem. This may be considered a no-no, but I am going to mention the name of the breeder that I obtained my last queen from, in hopes that they might take notice. I understand, from a beekeeper friend of mine, that this breeder, generally is unconcerned when customers make complaints. I obtained a swarm locally, in McKinney, Texas (just north of the Dallas/Fort Worth metroplex) last spring. The queen was very large and looked very healthy. Her laying pattern was fair (not anything spectacular). The problems that I had were "fanning" and "running". This was obviously a colony bred queen and not a purchased one. Otherwise, the colony was a strong colony and very docile. I could have easily worked the hive without protective clothing. I wanted to requeen anyway, as soon as possible, to get rid of the "bad" traits that I mentioned above, but in the interum my queen died somehow. I don't know if I rolled her one time when I was in the hive or what, but she was gone. This was in August and there was some kind of National conference going on and all the breeders were closed and gone to the conference, except Weaver Apiaries. So, I purchased a queen from them and, MAN, bad news. The running and fanning stopped and the laying pattern is much better, but these bees are absolutely vicious. No matter how much you smoke them, as soon as the hive is opened they immediately make a "bee line" for your face. The other day, just the act of removing a feeding jar from the top of this hive-body/medium super combo caused them to come boiling out of the entrance, which is at the bottom. A friend had come to give me a hand, because I am one-armed, due to a broken arm, right now. He was wearing blue jeans, a navy T-shirt and navy cap. They went after him and chased him a good 30 feet from the hive. I would definitely say there's a breeding problem. My friend tells me this is typical of the Weaver queens. If so, I will not be purchasing any more queens from them and will definitely requeen next spring. I'd like to see more discussion on this topic, so I can know who to avoid. Mike Wallace Bkeeper1@aol.com McKinney, Texas USA ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 26 Nov 1995 21:38:02 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "William Nelson@Aol.Com" Subject: Re: formic and lactic acid Does it make a difference in the lethality of the lactic acid whether it is in its' L or D form? Has the research progressed that far? Bill Nelson, North Liberty, IN. USA ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 26 Nov 1995 22:27:25 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: David Morris Subject: Re: Queen Evaluation Mike: In a message dated 95-11-26 20:35:53 EST, you write: > This may be considered a no-no, but I am going to mention the name of the >breeder that I obtained my last queen from, in hopes that they might take >notice. I understand, from a beekeeper friend of mine, that this breeder, >generally is unconcerned when customers make complaints. >I would definitely say there's a breeding problem. My friend tells me this >is typical of the Weaver queens. If so, I will not be purchasing any more >queens from them and will definitely requeen next spring. > Which "Weaver" apiaries? You should be more specific regarding your allegations. You add "I understand, from a beekeeper friend of mine, that this breeder, generally is unconcerned when customers make complaints". What, are you saying that you do not have first hand experience in this matter but are willing to make allegations based on someone else's word?? Did you NOT make a complaint yourself before deciding whether or not they are responsive??? David Morris Laurel, MD ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 27 Nov 1995 04:47:41 GMT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Darlene Scribilo Subject: bee venom contact To those interested in information on bee venom, Michael Simics and Apitronic Services has moved to 4640 Pendlebury Road, Richmond, B.C. Canada V7E 1E7 Phone/fax (604) 271-9414. Darlene dags@wimsey.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 26 Nov 1995 20:51:12 -0800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Roy Nettlebeck Subject: Re: Queen Evaluation In-Reply-To: <951126203536_116960891@mail06.mail.aol.com> Hi Mike, When I started this topic , I knew it would be hard not to go out and name some queen breeders.A little added info as regards to problems with queens.Washington state apiarist and myself had a long talk on the subject of queens.,, He will be talking on the subject in Portland Oregon this winter when the western beekeepers have a convention.He has purchased new queens from a different breeder each of the last 10 years. He had problems with all of them. I would love to here from someone that has some positive things to say about the queens that they are getting. You must have had one of the few mean bees that come out of breeders. They are no fun at all. I think we can come up with a few good queen breeders.It is the old QUALITY = winner. Maybe all of them can take a good look at what is going on in the market place and respond to our needs.Plus money for themselves. We have some very highly skilled breeders and I feel that they only need to be focused. We have no real list of traits that we need in our queens.Each breeder has his or her list to work from. I hope we can come up with a good list that can be attained. Brother Adam did a lot of work and has much insight into the breeding or good bees.We have many great people to draw from. Its time to get as many people as we can on the same page. If we don't focus on the queen. How can we really improve beekeeping? It looks like the USDA has been doing work on the Varroa problem. We can't point to any one spot and say we have found the problem. It takes everyone together to really make a difference. Enough soap box. I hope we can get some breeders in the loop with us. Roy ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 27 Nov 1995 00:44:55 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Dave Green, Eastern Pollinator Newsletter" Subject: Re: Queen Evaluation In a message dated 95-11-26 20:37:41 EST, you write: >Subj: Re: Queen Evaluation >Date: 95-11-26 20:37:41 EST >From: Bkeeper1@AOL.COM (Michael L. Wallace) >The running and fanning stopped and the laying pattern is much better, but >these bees are absolutely vicious. No matter how much you smoke them, as >soon as the hive is opened they immediately make a "bee line" for your face. > The other day, just the act of removing a feeding jar from the top of this >hive-body/medium super combo caused them to come boiling out of the entrance, >which is at the bottom. A friend had come to give me a hand, because I am >one-armed, due to a broken arm, right now. He was wearing blue jeans, a navy >T-shirt and navy cap. They went after him and chased him a good 30 feet from >the hive. > >I would definitely say there's a breeding problem. My friend tells me this >is typical of the Weaver queens. If so, I will not be purchasing any more >queens from them and will definitely requeen next spring. Did you contact the Weavers? There are two outfits; you don't mention which one. I have done business with one of them many times, and have had no unusual problems. They have always been courteous, and shipped on the promised dates. Give them a fair chance, before writing them off. There are some fast buck artists in the queen rearing world, which should be identified, but I doubt that Weavers are among them. Pollinator@aol.com Dave Green, PO Box 1200, Hemingway, SC 29554 ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 26 Nov 1995 22:23:30 -0800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Roy Nettlebeck Subject: Re: Queen Evaluation In-Reply-To: <951127004453_35016089@emout05.mail.aol.com> Hi Dave, Your comment about the weavers was well taken. I have done bussiness with both of them and have not beentreated badly by either one of them. Roy weaver sent me another queen when one of my queens lasted a week. I would like to hear as much positive input as posible.We can find problems all over the place. If we see an overall trend that is negative in our queens, then we can get the queens up to our expectations. I have two friends in California that breed queens. I like both of them but I don't buy queens from them anymore.They do not see a problem. It could be that up north needs its own special queens. That is a real point. I had some hives that would fly in the rain back in 1980. They produced over 300lb. each.State average was 60lb. I would like to have them back.The breeder was in California but not in business now. Thank you Roy ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 27 Nov 1995 09:46:07 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Edward Sterling Subject: Re: infant botulism > Medical research has led doctors to conclude that one cause of so-called >"crib death" or "sudden infant death syndrome" may in fact be due to infant >botulism (food poisoning). A number of public health officials now believe >there may be many unrecognized cases of this disease each year, and honey has >been implicated as a cause in a few cases. Symptoms vary from mild to severe, As I recall, the theory was unpasteurized honey may contain amounts of botulin which were harmless to adults, but enough to affect certain infants susceptible to botulin even in apparently harmless amounts. The latest SIDS information discussed on Boston area TV is that SIDS is primarily due to breathing irregularities. There is a missing stimulus in the baby's system which causes breathing to stop. All the baby needs is some type of external stimulus such as a noise or a shake and the breathing then resumes. Monitors can be installed to detect cessation of breathing and the resulting alarm is enough to get the baby breathing again. IMHO, I think the honey/botulin theory has turned out to be unsubstantiated. Ed =========================================================================== "ed@gpcc.ultranet.com" | I'm no longer at Simware; now work at BusTech Inc. Ed Sterling, Box 494, | ACTUAL quotes from my kids: "Daddy, hummingbirds Bolton, MA 01740 USA | help the bees put honey in the flowers!" "In the Phone/FAX: 508-779-6058 | daytime, the sun melts the moon into cloudpieces!" =========================================================================== Wish you had a favorite childhood toy from the 1950s/60s/70s back again? Barbie? GI Joe? Fanner 50? Girder and Panel? See http://www.ultranet.com/~ed ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 27 Nov 1995 10:29:07 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Vaughn M. Bryant Jr." Subject: Re: Beekeeping Reading List (first shot) You might be interested in this book for your list as well. It is one of the few books on the market that deals with the pollen types found in honey... I have attached a brief summary of the book's contents. NEW POLLEN ATLAS JUST RELEASED POLLEN OF THE SOUTHEASTERN UNITED STATES: WITH EMPHASIS ON MELISSOPALYNOLOGY AND ENTOMOPALYNOLOGY (released in July, 1995; $27.00) by G. Jones, V. Bryant, M. Lieux, S. Jones, & P. Lingren The hardback edition of this pollen atlas of Southeastern U.S. flora is finally available for sale. It contains nearly 100 pages of text and indices as well as over 100 full-page plates. In total there are nearly 1,000 individual SEM photographs of 400 different vouchered pollen taxa found in flora of the Southeastern United States. In addition to a text portion, and plates, the book contains five separate indices that make finding the picture of any pollen grain easy. All of the SEM photographs are indexed according to their plant family, according to the plant's genus, by aperturation type, by ornamentation classification, and by individual photograph number. It is a remarkable publication for the price! Although this pollen atlas would be useful for any type of pollen research, it is especially useful for those individuals working with pollen-feeding insects and with the honey production of bees. Almost all of the pollen taxa represented in this book come from confirmed identifications of pollen taxa known to be used by bees in the production of honey, or pollen used as food by other types of pollen-eating insects. Copies may be ordered by email, by letter, by FAX, or by telephone from the American Association of Stratigraphic Palynologists. You may pay by VISA, Master Card, cash, or by check. If your order is accompanied by payment, AASP will send you the book free of additional postage and handling charges. If you want AASP to invoice you, postage and handling charges will be added . Send your orders to: Palynology Laboratory Telephone 409-845-5242 MS-4352 FAX 409-845-4070 Texas A&M University email (vbyrant@tamu.edu) College Station, Texas 77843-4352 Dr. Vaughn M. Bryant, Jr. Professor and Head Department of Anthropology Director of Texas A&M Palynology Laboratory Texas A&M University College Station, Texas 77843-4352 (409) 845-5242 - FAX (409) 845-4070 email (vbryant@tamu.edu) ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 27 Nov 1995 10:15:33 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jerry J Bromenshenk Subject: Re: Queen Evaluation In-Reply-To: from "Roy Nettlebeck" at Nov 26, 95 08:51:12 pm Roy jumped into this list with a hot topic. For the record, Jim Bach is the Washington Apicultural Inspector who has been investigating "poor" queens. A few weeks ago in Spokane, he gave a list of 16 characteristics that he has observed more and more frequently in queens. I have to agree with him, and actually added a few comments of my own - the main one is a tendency for the bees to ball the queen at the drop of a hat for no apparent reason. Just open the hive, give them a bit of smoke - the bees roll off the frames, into the box, over the bottom, up the sides, and out. The queen runs like an antelope, jumps into the box, and the bees jump on her and kill her on the spot. THIS IS NOT MANAGEMENT OR HANDLING ERROR, we have worked bees for 20+ years and have only seen this in the last three. Almost seems like the better the day and the gentler we try to be, the more likely it is to happen. Anyway, Jim and I have had some long talks about this. I estimate that 35-50% of the colonies we have observed replace the original queen just as the nectar flow really gets going. It is pointless to blame specific queen breeders. Like Jim, I see no pattern as to who, where, or when in terms of colonies that demonstrate poor clustering and loyalty to the queen. One can get good queens, but the proportion of queen's that are ill-suited to Montana climatic conditions seems to be going up. Jim thinks it has to do with pheromone production - and some clues suggest this is at least part of the issue. I also suspect that mites may alter queen behavior. Whatever the cause, we seldom see colonies boiling over with bees at the end of the summer in Montana. Clustering in cool weather is poor. Some recent data suggests thermal regulation may also be affected. Jim says colonies demonstrating his 16 traits "roar" as if queenless and that the difference can be measured with a simple decibel meter. I have a call in to Jim. He is not currently on the NET, but maybe I can get him to post his observations and test results. Thanks Jerry Bromenshenk jjbmail@selway.umt.edu ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 28 Nov 1995 09:55:02 PST Reply-To: m12345@cybernet.co.nz Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Mark Horsnell Subject: propolis solvent does anyone know a good solvent to get propolis off equipment, rubber gloves, etc. thanx, Mark Horsnell, Auckland, New Zealand Tel & Fax: 64-9-846-5644 E-mail: m12345@cybernet.co.nz ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 27 Nov 1995 19:28:15 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Steven A. Davis" Subject: Re: PASSING OF A BEE KEEPER I am moved to respond to "Passing of a Beekeeper". When I read testimony like this it reenforces my suspicion that beekeepers are by enlarge a gentle and noble lot. None of us should forget that expert as we may be at many aspects of life, we were once beginners at everything. As someone who has learned a great deal from many of you on Bee L - I encourage you to share your knowledge and skill; this is how it can be made most useful. Few things in life are as valuable as friendship. Obviously, Irwin knew this and others loved him for it. Steve ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 27 Nov 1995 21:29:35 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Michael L. Wallace" Subject: Re: Queen Evaluation Hello, No, I did not make a personal complaint to them. The friend, of which I speak is a reliable source, who does not make "off-the-cuff" remarks, such as this, lightly, has been in the bee business for many years, knows a lot of beekeepers who have purchased Weaver's queens and he has purchased their queens himself. The statement comes from years of experience and comments from others. The Weaver Apiaries that I referred to are the ones in Navasota, Texas. My friend says that their classic response to their queens causing aggressiveness is that "you requeened at the wrong time of year". Because of what I was told, I felt it a waste of my time and money (long-distance charges) to try to lodge a complaint. Sorry if it upset you, but it's the truth. Mike Wallace Bkeeper1@aol.com McKinney, Texas USA ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 28 Nov 1995 11:03:27 +0100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jean-Marie Van Dyck Subject: Re: Queen Evaluation Bonjour a tous ! this discussion get me in mind an article from Paul Jungels and Jos Guth the Luxemberger bee breeders (in french) in "Abeille de France" 1995 p273: >> ...the inducing quality development of a queen don't end with the laying of the first eggs. During the next phase she is living a very delicate development period. >> at this time you put her first in a small cage, get it at the post far of her cluster with only a few bees and introduce in established colonies where she is and remains at least for a month a stranger the old bees will kill ! Jos Guth described some typical cases : >> I have been able to observe queens maintained a long period in Kirchhainer nucs (very small nucs used in Germany) doesn't reach at the same fitness (vital power - force vitale in french) then queens from the same series but living in normal conditions, with possibilities of full development. Same observations the next years ! >> and ... >> We find the same bad effect when the queens are **introduced in strong production colonies** immediately after the beginning of the laying (and we don't mention the introduction difficulties at this stage !) ... >> ... He concluded : >> An optimal breeding is conditionned by the quality of the queens used as mother and by the conditions of the larvas, the breeding colonies and the conditions of emerging of the young queens. Moreover, the development is not finished when the queen is laying her first eggs. It's not during her birth year that the queen reach her maximum productivity but the next year ! It seems then not reasonable to overwork the queens the first year (at least the first 2-3 months) One must let her the time to fully develop. >> I phone to Jos Guth yesterday after the lot of mails about the US queen problems : >> I'm a queen supplier and I don't like to send my queens by post but I always advise the beekeepers to put these queens as soon as possible in small colonies with young bees to achieve her development, never in a production hive. Moreover, the tracheal mite is responsible of the lot of problem they actually get in the US. It's time they get some resistant strains. Maybe this will occur sooner without any TM treatment while the resistant lines are multiplied. But do that ?!? >> Jean-Marie ------------------------------------------------------------------- Jean-Marie Van Dyck Fax +32 81 72 42 72 B.P. 102 email : jmvandyck@quick.cc.fundp.ac.be B-5000 NAMUR(Belgium) Medical school - Biochemistry dept This => C'est ma facon de parler ! ------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 28 Nov 1995 07:27:33 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Diana Sammataro Subject: Trahceal mites Comments: cc: mites Greetings to all and the week after Thanksgiving. I am looking for anyone who has looked at tracheal mites in honey bees. I would like to compare data on the sex of these mites from different regions (let's start with the US) at different times of the year. If anyone has such information and is willing to share it, please contact me directly. I found Nick Calderon's address, for the bee people who wanted to congratulate him on his new position (at Cornell, congrats Nick): ncalderone@asrr.arsusda.gov Thanks in advance, Diana Sammataro, PhD Dept. Entomology 1735 Neil Ave Columubus OH 43210 1220 (until mid-Dec.) ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 28 Nov 1995 11:10:47 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: David Eyre Subject: TM resistance Comments: cc: Kinghorn@muskoka.net As promised here is the information on T-mite resistance. TRACHEAL MITE TESTING. In 1990 Dr's Gard Otis, Cynthia Scott-Dupree and Medhat Nasr started researching the possibility of breeding Tracheal mite (TM) resistant bees. The bees were imported from U.K. by Dr Roger Morse of Cornell University as a source of mite resistant bees. These U.K. bees have been exposed to the TM since the turn of the century. Several colonies had been selected naturally as resistant to mites. It turned out that these bees were susceptible to chalk brood, agressive running off the combs. When the University of Guelph started their breeding program in Western N.Y. they used some of these queens for their breeding program. They selected the best mite resistant bees and crossed them to Canadian bees and U.K. bees continuing for three generations. The resultant queens have produced bees that are tolerant to mites. They carry 3-4 times less mites in comparison to non-selected bees. These bees were imported to Canada in 1993 & 1994. They are on an isolated Island in Northern Ontario where a closed population is established. At the same time, the University of Guelph imported Buckfast bees from the U.K. and Denmark. These bees were tested for TM resistance. They have shown a good level of resistance and good honey production. Three beekeepers from Ontario are registered with The Buckfast Abbey to produce these queens in Ontario. Thus the breeding program in Western NY and importation of the Buckfast bees from the U.K. put the breeding program in position to be transferred to the Ontarion Beebreeders Assosiation's members. In 1994, the Ontario Beekeepers Association hired Dr Nasr to work closely with the Ontario Beebreeder's Association. The aim was to find and fix the TM resistance, so when T-Mites came across our border we would be ready. It was during this preliminary research that the mechanism for TM infestation was determined. T-Mites move into young host bees less than 4 days old. Once the bee reaches that age the bees are no longer attractive to mites looking for a new host. The mites feed,and reproduce in the bee's Trachea. After the mature females mate they leave their host bee and look for a new host under 4 days old. With this observation it was then possible to predict infestation levels. THE METHOD of quantifying resistance is reasonably easy to understand. A frame of emerging brood as supplied by the beekeeper is removed from a possible good breeder colony. This frame is incubated in an incubator overnight. The following day, 80 bees which emerged during the incubation period are tagged with coloured, numbered plastic tags. Combs of hatching brood (80 combs/test) provided by the beebreeders to Dr.Nasr. After tagging all of these bees (6400 bees) they were placed in 4 heavily TM infested colonies. The range of infestation is 60-90%. One week later all the tagged bees were removed, sorted to their original hive colours. Bees were stored in alcohol, then dissected to count the number of adult, egg, and nymphs of mites in each bee. The results are expressed as "X" mites per bee in "Y" number of bees, this is why we get figures like 1/2 mite in 23% of our bees. It should be explained that the beekeeper has nothing to do with the testing. This is done by Dr Nasr's team, and an independant bee testing laboratory. Each beekeeper pays for the privilege and supplies frames when requested. SELECTION: The selection of bees to be tested is entirely at the beekeeper's discretion. Guidelines are supplied, for example Winterability, brood pattern, hygeine, temper, forage ability, expressed as amount of honey stores gathered, disease free. Each keeper selects the best hives for the Queen mother and the best for Drone mothers. The aim is to control all areas of reproduction and mating, to that end we add frames of drone foundation to our Drone mother hives.This allows us to flood an area with desirable drones of our choosing. These hives are placed outside our mating yards approximately 1-1 1/2 miles around the circumference of a circle. Obviously we select our best hives, whilst trying hard to mantain mating diversity. Dr Nasr did some experiments with close related mating i.e. Brother-Sister and the egg laying pattern disintegrated. Instead of a solid pattern, holes appeared, as the relationship got closer, then more and more holes appeared. So to maintain a good pattern, we keep a 10 Queen line diversity. In other words, each of our 10 lines are not related, and all are T-Mite resistant. Under these conditions it is possible to predict the type of offspring, and it's ability to withstand T-mite infestations. We will never irradicate t-mite completely, they are here to stay, but, like Europe and the UK it will be possible to virtually ignore them. Our grateful thanks to Dr Medhat Nasr for his encouragement during this project and his continued support. I believe, in time, beekeepers everywhere in North America will appreciate his magnificent achievements. Names and addresses of some of the bee breeders involved, if you need all, please contact The Ontario Beekeepers Assoc, Bayfield, Ontario, Canada, N0M 1G0 The Beeworks, Barry Davies, 9 Progress Drive, RR 1, Orillia, Ontario, Seeley's Bay,Ontario, L3V 6H1 K0H 2N0 705-326-7171 613-387-3171 Rick Nielsen, Neil Orr, RR 1, PO Box 91, Stratton, Ontario, Wooler, Ontario, P0W 1N0 K0K 3M0 807-487-2387 613-359-1228 Ernst Bayer, David Van Der Dussen, R.R. 2, P.O. Box 142, Mitchell, Ontario, Stirling, Ontario, N0K 1N0 K0K 3E0 519-348-9128 613-395-5398 I make no claims or promises for the above, you will need to negotiate on your own terms with each one. On a personal level. We are commercial bee breeders, not interested in producing 1000s of Queens, our aim is more quality than quantity. As responsible breeders we want our customers to get the most out of our bees. To this end we offer, when you order, an information sheet explaining our way of introducing replacement queens. For our Southern Cousins, you can import bees into the USA without problems, by mail. We have attached our price list. HTM RESISTANT QUEEN BEES In the past years, everyone has heard a lot of discussions about Acarapis woodi or the Honeybee Tracheal Mite (HTM). You must have a concern for the future of your colonies whether you are a Commercial or Hobby Beekeeper. The approach YOU take to the HTM threat will determine if your Hobby or Business is to continue. All Beekeepers should be maintaining an IPM (Integrated Pest Management) programme in their apiary. It does not matter if you are in an active HTM area or not, the first and LONG TERM step is to re-queen with HTM Resistant Stock. In our Queen Rearing programme our goal is to "BREED A BETTER BEE" for you!!! Using forty five years experience and the information offered in "Queen Rearing" by the Ontario Bee Assoc, with the assistance and guidance of Dr Medhat Nasr and Doug McRory, Provincial Apiarist, our stock is now in place for 1996. By maintaining a variety of tested genetic lines of the Buckfast and Ontario stocks, we are able to offer to you HTM Resistant Queens, starting early June 1996. Our yards are inspected on an annual basis and have been declared/certified mite free for 1995. With our isolated mating yards and our routine feeding of FUMIDIL-B (against Nosema) we produce Queens of amazing vigour. Our bees winter well, they are frugal with winter stores and start quickly in the Spring. Now is the time to consider IPM in your yards, not when your hives are on the decline. Price List Fully Mated. Proven & Tested Queens $11.00 US each Virgin Queens $6.00 US each 3 & 5 Frame Nucs Price on request All shipments made by Priority Post. Please add $11.00 US. 50% deposit with order, balance before shipment. ************************************************************ * David J. Eyre CEO 9, Progress Drive, Unit 2, * * The Beeworks Orillia, Ont, Canada, L3V 6H1 * * beeworks@muskoka.net (705) 326 7171 * * http://www.muskoka.net/~beeworks * ************************************************************* ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 28 Nov 1995 14:50:00 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Mike Beluch Subject: Neighbors say Beekeeping a "No no" Hello to all! I am a novice beekeeper and maintain a few hives at on spare land where I work (1st year). I am soon to purchase a home in the suburbs, however, and I've queried my existing neighbors as to their feelings on having hive's next door (to get a feel for my soon-to-be neighbors responses) Their response: Overwhelmingly negative ! :-( One person actually compared keeping bees to keeping poisonous snakes !! I was wondering if anyone out there can point me in the direction of books, articles, etc. which are geared to allaying irrational fears of the general populace, as concerning honeybees and safety. Help ! Mike Beluch beluchm@pt.cyanamid.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 29 Nov 1995 08:23:51 PST Reply-To: m12345@cybernet.co.nz Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Mark Horsnell Subject: propolis solvent (2) for the benefit of all members i wld like to list up replies from the following people & their suggestions for a propolis solvent. paul magnuson washing soda (sodium carbonate) joseph cooper Rubbing alcohol mike wallace high proof grain alcohol ("Ever Clear") robert rice ethanol (>70%) or a petroleum based solvent i quickly deduced that some form of high proof alcohol wld do the trick. always works for me in other ways too ;-). and from a few mental calculations plus a bit of experimentation (all done WITHOUT the alcohol!!!) i wld like to add one more to the list: methylated spirits. it's cheap, readily available, and most nz households have a bottle of it floating around in the garden shed. it's also good for starting the barbeque...... WOOOOOOOOFFF!!!! thanx to all for your help. mark ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 28 Nov 1995 16:24:23 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Kevin Grabow Subject: Re: Neighbors say Beekeeping a "No no" In a message dated 95-11-28 15:03:23 EST, you write: > I've queried my existing neighbors as to their feelings on having hive's > next door (to get a feel for my soon-to-be neighbors responses) > > Their response: Overwhelmingly negative ! :-( > One person actually compared keeping bees to keeping poisonous snakes !! I think before you decide to please your soon to be new neighbors you better find out what the local zoning laws are. I kept bees in a garage where they could fly in and out of a window, but the city I lived in had an ordinance against bees. The neighbors who knew I had bees (most didn't even know I had them) didn't mind so nobody turned me in. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 28 Nov 1995 23:32:43 +0000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Francis Ratnieks Subject: Beekeepers' neighbor problems I have successfully kept bees in the small suburban gardens of the two previous houses that I lived in (in California) without annoying the neighbors. It all depends on how the neighbors feel about bees, if they know you have them, and your skill at keeping the bees in a way that prevents any annoyance. However, I have had problems keeping bees at work because of complaints from colleagues even though I worked at a university studying bees and my colleagues were scientists. Based upon these experiences I have concluded that one person who does not like bees for any reason and has the least objection (risk of stinging; yellow faeces on their car or building) will be able to prevent you from keeping bees. The best chance with your neighbors is to explain to them that you would like to keep bees, will keep them in a special "neighbor friendly" and safe way, but will remove them if they cause any problem. In this way they may give you the benefit of the doubt initially. To minimize, and hopefully eliminate, any problems with the bees follow the following guideines: keep only very gentle bees; don't let them swarm; don't keep too many hives; inspect them only when weather conditions are good; don't allow robbing to occur; surround the apiary with a tall lattice fence or hedge so that the bees fly at 8ft or more above ground when passing over gardens; if the bees start collecting water from taps, pools, hoses etc. give them a feeder of water inside the hive. One problem that you cannot avoid is the yellow faeces which will rain down on all around. This is paricularly a problem in arid areas without frequent rain to wash things clean. If you are a new beekeeper I suggest that you do not keep bees at home for at least a few years so that you can gain more experience managing colonies. It may be possible to get on the neighbor's good side by explaining that bees provide ollination and by giving out jars of honey. If you want to keep bees at home very much and plan on staying at that house for a long time then you should move very slowly, taking all precautions and assuaging the neighbors fears before you begin. You will have the highest chance of being successful if the gardens are rather large and have tall hedges or fences along the borders. Dr. Francis L. W. Ratnieks Department of Animal & Plant Sciences University of Sheffield Sheffield S10 2TN, U.K. tel: 0114 282 4316 fax: 0114 276 0159 e-mail: F.Ratnieks@Sheffield.ac.uk ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 28 Nov 1995 18:47:38 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: BusyKnight Subject: Re: Beekeeping a "No no" Mark, Since you asked for opinions, I'll give you mine. About 99% of the damage his already been done by YOU! You, like most bee- keepers talk too much! (And to this group, I include myself). Its natural, we like bees and sharing our knowledge and interests. IMHO you would have been better off NOT asking your neighbors. If you are going to live in a "typical" subdivision, then you'll have privacy fences (wooden) or at least some way to keep your immediate neighbors from seeing the hive(s). You have already been sent several good suggestions on how to manage the hives & your neighbors. Keep them to just a couple, check your zoning city ordances (if any), provide them water to drink (not your neighbor's swimming pool), etc. But let me warn you of one thing; if your city ordance does allow for a hive or hives, you still may not be able to keep bees if your neighbors don't want you too. And all it takes is ONE neighbor! Most all cities also have laws on the books that allow for removal of "nuisance" pests. So even though you may be permitted to have honeybee hives, all that your neighbor(s) have to do is claim that they're a nuisance and off your bees go! No matter how gentle or mild-mannered they are. All it takes is for one little kid to get stung by a WASP and YOUR bees are guilty! So my approach has always been: the fewer people who know, the better. And if any of the neighbors are on your side, you better set aside some honey for them (their continued support is by no means assured, especially if it was their kid who was stung)! Sneek the hive in, get it outa sight (outa mind), place it so the 'flyway' is up high and not facing any neighbor or their dogs or where kids play. In short, "Don't advertise"!!! BusyKnight Dallas, TX BusyKnight busykngt@airmail.net ICBM INcode:N:32.45'W:96.45' Dallas, Republic of Texas Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is an absurd one. - Voltaire ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 28 Nov 1995 17:04:29 -0800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Casey Burns Subject: Re: Beekeepers' neighbor problems In-Reply-To: I had a neighbor complain to me about my bees - he said that everytime they were out on their porch barbecuing the critters came around and ate the meat right off the grill. I pointed out his error: wasps were bothering him - but he remained unconvinced..... ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 28 Nov 1995 20:57:47 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: David Eyre Subject: Re: Control of trachael mites Jerry Bromenshenk wrote as part of a message on Queen quality ie. running queens,a reference to_ thermal regulation_ within the cluster. Sorry to be long winded but I inadvertatly deleted the message!!! Uoops! Anyway...... Dr. Nasr did a lot of work on this, as he wanted to know why we lost hives with T-mites in the winter, here in the north and not so many in the south. He took bees with various infestations of T-mites into a temp control unit, set it up to measure the amout of Oxygen consumed. It seems that as the temp. went down the bees Oxygen requirments increased. The healthy bees consumed more and kept warm. The infested bees did not (or could not) increase their need at very low temps. at -20C they were dead. Makes you think??? ************************************************************ * David J. Eyre CEO 9, Progress Drive, Unit 2, * * The Beeworks Orillia, Ont, Canada, L3V 6H1 * * beeworks@muskoka.net (705) 326 7171 * * http://www.muskoka.net/~beeworks * ************************************************************* ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 28 Nov 1995 19:02:27 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jerry J Bromenshenk Subject: Re: Control of trachael mites In-Reply-To: <199511290157.UAA02581@segwun.muskoka.net> from "David Eyre" at Nov 28, 95 08:57:47 pm Hi: I got much the same story from Ed Southwick before he passed away from some tests he ran. Jerry Bromenshenk jjbmail@selway.umt.edu ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 28 Nov 1995 19:12:19 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jerry J Bromenshenk Subject: Re: TM resistance In-Reply-To: <199511281610.LAA15186@segwun.muskoka.net> from "David Eyre" at Nov 28, 95 11:10:47 am Ok, question? The notion that Tracheal mites prefer young adult bees as hosts has been projected many times. Our model says that the mite has to be choosey in the spring and summer, otherwise the host is apt to die before the progeny of the foundress female can mature, mate, and move to a new host. Pick an older bee and your host will die before the mites can get through a life cycle. Want to control mites, shorten the bee's lifespan just a tad. Ok, but what happens in the fall and winter, particularly in northern climates. Are all of those mites in an old bee simply second generation progeny (staying in the same host), or do mites transfer to older hosts (become less picky at this time of year)? I don't know and can't say I have seen any hard data on this one. Pettis has evidence of more than one generation of mites in the same host. How about all those mites in the other tracheae, where did they come from? Same host, another host, some of both? Makes a difference in the population modeling efforts. Anybody have any good evidence for this, one way or the other? Cheers Jerry Bromenshenk jjbmail@selway.umt.edu ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 29 Nov 1995 07:07:10 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Diana Sammataro Subject: Re: TM resistance In-Reply-To: <199511290212.TAA05970@selway.umt.edu> from "Jerry J Bromenshenk" at Nov 28, 95 07:12:19 pm Jerry: There is circumstantial evidence that mites lose host preference (read availability) to young bees in the fall. Giordani found mites all over the bee, eggs too, and Sachs reports that the chelicerae are strong enough to go through the chitin in the thorax. Maybe they only need the trahcea to lay eggs in, and can (overwinter??) externally. Just a thought, and some gleanings from the articles I've read. diana ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 29 Nov 1995 10:00:52 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Bill Miller Subject: Re: TM resistance I appreciate what you are trying to do with supplying tracheal mite resistant queen, but for me one small problem emerges on getting your queens -- isn't importing bees into the USA illegal? W.G. Miller Gaithersburg, MD USA