Date sent: Sat, 8 Jun 1996 16:24:13 -0400 From: "L-Soft list server at ALBNYVM1 (1.8b)" Subject: File: "BEE-L LOG9605" To: Allen Dick ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 May 1996 01:59:00 GMT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Andy Nachbaur Organization: WILD BEE'S BBS (209) 826-8107 LOS BANOS, CA Subject: Oxalis pollination AMQ>From: Ana Maria Quiniones >Date: Fri, 26 Apr 1996 15:58:24 EST >Subject: Oxalis pollination AMQ>The work I am carrying out is related to the production of sexual seed on >Oxalis tuberosa Mol. (an andean tuber) using honeybees for this >purpose. Since I need the seed to come from specific crosses >(avoiding any type of pollen contamination) I am working inside confined >areas. Inside each compartment I put 8 plants, a nuc (of 5 frames), >enough water and sugar solution. For the first month of work the bees >made an excellent pollination work, producing a high average of seed >per fruit. For extended pollination have a back up system, after two weeks replace the first unit with a fresh second unit.. Sugar is the key to increased pollen collection. Feed often, this also will prematurely age your bees so replacement is necessary. AMQ>I also have a problem with pollen contamination, my new crosses are getting >contaminated with pollen from the crosses made before. My question is >Which minimum of days should I leave my hive without plants to be sure >that the bees are completely clean (without pollen) , and could a bee >deposit all the pollen collected on one day ?. Depending on what pasture the bees came from, but if you are reporting crossing from a earlier bloom, this is possible but considering the sugar or nectar the bees add to the pollen they store I would not think it was that much of a problem. But to be sure I would bring in new and fresh bees that were isolated from anything that could interfere with your work. It could be that the crossing is coming from pollen trapped in the confined areas. Collect some dust from the environs and have a look see at what is floating around before your plants bloom. Good Luck Ana Maria and my your seed bee fertile and bring forth BIG fat tubers., ttul Andy- --- ~ QMPro 1.53 ~ ... "Having found the flower and driven a bee away, ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 May 1996 08:45:00 +0200 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Rudolf E. Bahr" Subject: Re: bee moving! In-Reply-To: <199604302000.QAA10132@mime2.prodigy.com> Hello Mark, very interesting your posting, for me too, though I move normally only single hives between my 2 apiary locations. But I had some questions: On Tue, 30 Apr 1996, MR MARK G SPAGNOLO wrote: > Hello: > > I work > at Kona Queen Hawaii. Who or what is Kona Queen? > > The terrain in Hawaii is very rough. We are forced to use 1 ton or > 3/4 ton four wheel drive trucks. This means the roads are very rough or do you drive across the country? > > We load all our hives just before sunset. Two guys to a load. The > hives are not closed. When the flight stops (shortly before sunset) > the hive entrances are smoked and all hives are loaded. The > entrances face forward. Did you experience a better air conditioning with forward facing entrances? > > The loads are then tied securely and covered with a net. I assume, the net should retain those bees, which come out of their hives during driving in the night? How much normally is the percentage of bees coming out compared to those which don't? > > The trucks > are then parked under the sprinkler for the night. Hawaiian night > temeratures are rarely below 65 degrees, but the water keeps the bees > in the hive. I assume, in the early morning hours you will drive to your new location. How long? > > In the morning the hives are unloaded in their new locations. We try > to unload just as the sun is rising. You don't want to wait too > long! > > We have good success with this method, although I have had few > disasters. One particular situation involving a long wait in heavy > traffic due to a car accident comes to mind. Bees everywhere. But everywhere under the net? > > Mark at Kona Queen Hawaii NISI APES FINIS ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 May 1996 07:18:47 -0600 Reply-To: allend@internode.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Allen Dick Organization: The Beekeepers Subject: Re: Lack of Honeybees in Western Washington >I have been > getting a lot of feedback about the lack of bees on fruit trees in > western Washington. I looked around myself and the problem is real. > Now I wonder if other parts of the world that has Varroa has the same > problem? We have lost many of our hobby beekeepers do to varroa and > they don't want to start up again. This could affect wildlife that > lives off of berrys and nuts. The real gold that the honeybee does > for man is pollenation. The honeybee is not native to North America. I wonder how the various natural plants and trees made out before they came? Are all the bees that are capable of pollination large enough that they are obvious to the casual observer? What about the role of ants, butterflys, and small animals? I know that my father grew apple trees in Sudbury Ontario (Canada) for years without more than an occasional malformed apple until he got some bees, after which time he had ample set and yield. I realise many plants and trees we have are not native either, so I can assume there is the possiblity that they particularly will suffer from lack of honeybees, however what about the native bees? Have they been lost, or will we see a comeback now that there is less competition? Were there ever sufficient numbers before sprays and destruction of nest sites? Or have we upset and changed the environment so much that even 'nature' is dependant on the bees that are provided, protected, and managed by man? I don't know the answers to any of these questions, but I'm sure there are some who do make this their specialty. Moreover I've read that people in some parts of the world are claiming that the honeybee has upset their ecology and caused some plants to dominate areas where they 'should' not. I wonder.... Regards Allen W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper VE6CFK RR#1, Swalwell, Alberta Canada T0M 1Y0 Internet:dicka@cuug.ab.ca & allend@internode.net Honey. Bees, & Art ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 May 1996 09:17:50 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: RICHARD BARNES Subject: Feral Bees I have gone out this last week and taken two feral hives (one from a house and one that moved into an old hive). The feral bees are larger and quite a bit more agressive than the honeybees that I am use to keeping. The feral bees are large enough that the stinger will go through my canvas gloves and I have to revert to leather gloves. Is it common for feral bees to be more agressive and does nature make these bees larger or are beekeepers breeding for smaller bees? The bees that moved into the old hive, (it was a mess) didn't have any visible mites either tracial or varrora. I was wondering if anyone can tell me how to ID the africanized bees? This might explain the agressivness and I have heard that the africanized bees are less tolerant to the mites. I live in south central Oklahoma and we havn't had any reports of the africanized bees in this area yet. I hope I'm not the first. Any help is appreciated. Richard Barnes rbarnes@halnet.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 May 1996 07:20:00 GMT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Andy Nachbaur Organization: WILD BEE'S BBS (209) 826-8107 LOS BANOS, CA Subject: NEED BEANs Save the BEES BEANS, beans the musical fruit comes in time of need to the keepers of bees! Or is it all just passing gas? l l This l l post l l is l l a l l follow up! California.... Beekeeper's here are experimenting with a chemical product they mix with sugar syrup at ratio's of 300 gallons sugar to 2 quarts product and feed it to the bees in early spring to kill varroa mites. The product sells for about $50. a gallon and is 0.25% Azadirachtin (active ingredient). Have you heard anything about this product made by GRACE and sold as NEEMAZAD 0.28 EC? ************************Follow UP*********************** NORTHERN AGRICULTURE RESEARCH CENTRE Frangais (this is English) Research Branch Agriculture and Agri-Food Canada P.O. Box 29 Beaverlodge, Alberta T0H 0C0 Tel. (403) 354-2212 Fax (403) 354-8171 EM OTTB::EM380MAIL Internet EM380MAIL@ABRSBL.AGR.CA Apiculture pathology T.P. Liu, Ph.D. Apiculture (seconded out) T.I. Szabo, Ph.D. The Northern Agriculture Research Centre (NARC) improves production systems for crops, honey bees, and other pollinating insects adapted to environmental conditions in northwestern Canada. It also develops technology for managing the soil, water, and climatic resources of the region, for a productive and sustainable agricultural industry. The centre has breeding programs in canola, wheat, and honey bees. Our major crops are * cereal grains * pulse crops * forage seed production * oilseeds. The Fort Vermilion field site develops crop management systems for oilseeds, cereals, and pulse crops. Achievements l l This l l looks l l real l l good l l ..... Controlling chalkbrood disease of honeybees It's an environmentalist's dream: a natural pesticide found in the seeds of the neem, one of the most common trees in India and Burma. Neem extract controls diseases and pests of crops, yet leaves pollinating insects and mammals unharmed. Neem extract was tested and results showed that treated colonies had 350% less chalkbrood and 100% less nosema than control colonies. Treated colonies also collected 3.5 times more pollen and produced 1.5 times more honey. ----------------------------------OLd Drone Comments-------------------- The Honey Producer in me says: *WOW 1 and 1/2 more honey, up the mites, we all should be feeding this chemical and get the increase in honey production, have cleaner bees, and any residue in the honey will cure MS along with a few bee stings in the right places.........after all its a natural poison. AND The farmer Almond grower who pays me says: **HOT DOG, up the mites, up the honey, up the bee keepers, collecting 3.5x the pollen, HOT DOG! How much of this stuff do you need.. _________________________end of comment------------------------------- Biological control of tracheal mites in the honey bee Breeding honey bees that are resistant to tracheal mites is the most desirable approach to reducing the damage caused by infestations of this pest. Biological control of tracheal mite infestation may be another attractive alternative. A DNA virus has been found in tracheal mites taken from honey bees. When this virus was introduced into mite-infected colonies, the infestation level decreased from 23.7% to 5.2% within 2 months. -------------------------More added------------------------------- ** I must add to this that without looking at what exactly happened in the controls in this piece of work one must remember that the tracheal mites are infamous for spontaneous remission in numbers of mites making it very hard to derive reliable information or control stratagems. It may be that this virus is present and is naturally triggered by some environmental input that may or may not be controlled. -------------------------end of off the wall comments-------------- NARC has a staff of 50 full-time equivalents, with 16 in the professional categories. The center controls 390 ha of land at two sites and rents about 35 ha of land a year for research. In addition, NARC manages the Fort Vermilion field site, which owns 187 ha of land and rents about 3 ha of land for research. Operation is on a growing season basis only. NARC manages a budget of $3.3 million. It has a 12-person advisory committee consisting of farmers and provincial and university leaders. The centre supplements its resources by receiving funds from outside agencies, including the provinces, producer groups, and agri-business. Research Publications Fairey, D.T. 1993. Pollination of Trifolium hybridum by Megachile rotundata. J. Appl. Seed Prod. 11:34-38. Fairey, D.T. 1993. Pollination and seed set in herbage species: a review of limiting factors. J. Appl. Seed Prod. 11:6-12. Fairey, D.T.; Lefkovitch, L.P. 1993. Bombus and other bee pollinators in Trifolium hybridum seed fields. J. Appl. Seed Prod. 11:87~-89. Fairey, D.T.; Lefkovitch, L.P. 1993. Arrangement of new and used nesting materials in leafcutting bee, Megachile rotundata (F.), shelters to maximize cell production. J. Appl. Entomol. 115:62-65. Fairey, D.T.; Lefkovitch, L.P. 1994. Collection of leaf pieces by Megachile rotundata: proportion used in nesting. Bee Sci. 3(2):79-85. Fairey, N.A.; Lefkovitch, L.P. 1994. Herbage production as influenced by stand arrangement, nitrogen fertility and supplemental water. Can. J. Plant Sci. 74:115-120. Grant, G.A.; Nelson, D.L.; Olsen, P.E.; Rice, W.A. 1993. The ~ Elisa" detection of tracheal mites in whole honey bee samples. Am. Bee J. 133:652-655. Li, M.; Nelson, D.L.; Sporns, P. 1993. Determination of menthol in honey by gas chromatography. J. AOAC Int. 76(6):1289-1295. Liu, T.P.; Chu, L.T.Y.; Sporns, P. 1993. Formic acid residues in honey in relation to application rate and timing of formic acid for control of tracheal mites, Acarapis woodi (Rennie). Am. Bee J. 133:71-721. Liu, T.P.; McRory, D. 1994. The use of gamma radiation from Cobalt-60 in a commercial facility in Ontario to disinfect honey bee equipment. 1. American foulbrood disease. Am. Bee J. 134:203-206. Liu, T.P.; Nasr, M.E. 1993. Preventive treatment of tracheal mites, Acarapis woodi (Rennie) with vegetable oil extender patties in the honeybee, Apis mellifera L. colonies. Am. Bee J. 134:873~-875. Mills, P.F. 1994. The agricultural potential of northwestern Canada and Alaska and the impact of climatic change. Arctic 47(2):115-123. Nelson, D.; Sporns, P.; Kristiansen, P.; Mills, P. 1993. Effectiveness and residue levels of 3 methods of menthol application to honey bee colonies for the control of tracheal mites. Apidologie 24:549-556. Szabo, T.I. 1993. Brood rearing in outdoor wintered honey bee colonies. Am. Bee J. 133(8):579-580. Szabo, T.I. 1993. Length of life of queens in honey bee colonies. Am. Bee J. 133(10):723-724. Szabo, T.I. 1993. Selective breeding of honey bees for resistanct to Varroa jacobsoni. Am. Bee J. 133:868; Can. Beekeep. 17(10):222. *Ripped off the Agriculture and Agri-Food Canada web page, edited to save band width. ttul OLd Drone (c) Permission is granted to freely copy this document in any form, or to print for any use. (w)Opinions are not necessarily facts. Use at own risk. Not a invitation to use or an endorsement of any product legal or not legal. --- ~ QMPro 1.53 ~ What is not good for the swarm is not good for the bee! ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 May 1996 11:03:28 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jim Moore DTN276-9448 ogo1/e17 508-496-9448 Subject: Q: Beekeeper hygienic practices I have a general question regarding procedures when working with bees and minimizing spreading germs, mites, whatever. It seems that with the T-mite and V-mite infestations, bees are stressed to the limit. This increases the likelyhood that a hive will be sick and contagious or weak and susceptible. It may be that the general hygenic practices of the beekeeper will need to be improved as it seems the honey bee is becoming domesticated at least until the V-mite and T-mite can be controlled or withstood. Granted some practices proposed would not be pratical for commercial beekeepers or all hobbyists. Things I have heard are bulleted below. Please share any ideas about practices known or used as they relate to activity from: A. Hive to hive B. Apiary to apiary. with regard to: 1. Beekeeper hands gloves o wearing disposalble latex gloves and replaced after each hive. outfit 2. Tools Hive tool o sterilize hive tool by plunging it into the smoker and stoking after each use. Smoker Decapping fork other items etc. 3. Medication dispensers amd medication Partially used strips Partially used patties Partially used menthol dispensers etc. 4. Feed and feeders Feeders Honey Frames sugar syrup expiration 5. Brood exchange 6. Foundation moving from hive to hive 7. Mandated Inspections 8. Foundation replacement or cleaning o replace wax brood foundation every 5 years 9. Extrators and Extraction 10. Transport Trucks Dollies 11. What else? Thanks in advance. Lets hear from some lurkers as well! ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 May 1996 13:08:16 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Joseph Cooper Subject: Tracheal mites and grease patties List readers who want to follow up on Allen Dick's recent posting as to the use of grease in the control of tracheal mites may want to look at: Diana Sammataro, Susan Cobey, Brian H. Smith and Glen R. Needham, "Controlling Tracheal Mites..In Honey Bees..With Vegetable Oil," _J of Economic Entomology_, 87, (4): 910-16 (1994). The abstract reads in part: "Field experiments ...between 1991 and 1993 demonstrated that treating colonies of honey bees...continuously with vegetable oil depressed populations of tracheal mites....Oil patties were made from a combination of solid vegetable oil (shortening) and white sugar, with or without the addition of [Terramycin]." References cited in this article include at least two other directly relevant papers. ********************** Joseph Cooper jcooper@infinet.com ********************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 May 1996 13:46:49 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ted Fischer Subject: Re: Lack of Honeybees in Wes REGARDING RE>Lack of Honeybees in Western Washington Roy Nettlebeck writes: "I have been feeling bad seeing so many old time hobby beekeepers going down. I'm 54 and I have never seen a spring with so few bees on flowers all around.My trees can be heard 100 feet away and down the road 6 miles nothing. This may be a big experiment in nature." Roy, I feel the same way. We haven't had fruit bloom yet in southeastern Michigan, but I have noticed the lack of bees in the maples, dandelions and garden flowers. I have bees permanently placed in one orchard, and plan to carefully observe that one and compare it to others without pollinating bees brought in. I have had to talk reluctant friends into trying beekeeping again after losing everything to the mites. Another acquaintance is hesitant to get into the hobby now. It is possible that we may soon see a general agricultural collapse, for we all (farmers, horticulturists, etc.) have been taking honeybees for granted. Truly these are challenging times! Ted Fischer ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 May 1996 16:35:18 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: David Eyre Subject: Re: User Unknow >550 ... User unknown > >Every time I post a message to the list I recive this message? Can anyone >tell me why? can it be fixed? HELP! I am beginning to wonder if its >operator error. Me Too!! There must be a problem at The University of Guelph. I am putting in a message, hope someone will correct the problem. Regards to all Dave...... ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 May 1996 16:00:31 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Kelley Rosenlund Subject: plastic Comments: To: Ted Fischer --=====================_830991623==_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" --=====================_830991623==_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Thankyou for responding. * What brand of frames do you use? * How far is the comb draw out? * How long have you used them? * Do you use them in your brood chamber? * What size frames? * Do queens lay well in them? * Do you use in supers? * What size frames? * Do bees put honey in them well? * Do you run 8 or 10 frame equipment? * Do you put one less frame in supers to ease in uncapping? * How do you uncap? * Do the frames hold up well in your uncapper? * Do the ears hold up well when the bees really seal down the frame? * I assume wax worms are not a concern with these frames during storage, how about critters? * Any minuses or extra precautions you have to take with them, especially when they are cold? * Did you know permaacomb has designed an extractor that spins so fast you do not have to uncap frames? The caps just fly off. Any thoughts on this extractor? --=====================_830991623==_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" God Bless, Kelley Rosenlund rosenlk@freenet.ufl.edu Gainesville, Florida, U.S.A., 137 hives, 1 year in beekeeping. --=====================_830991623==_-- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 May 1996 13:17:31 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Whitney S. Cranshaw" Subject: Re: Lack of Honeybees in Western Coloradon Similarly there was alot of concern about the dearth of honeybees in western Colorado (our tree fruit production area) this past month. Some of it may be due to the poor shape of bees following last year's terrible weather. But mites are definitely involved. Whitney Cranshaw Department of Entomology Colorado State University Ft. Collins, CO 80523 wcransha@ceres.agsci.colostate.edu >>I have been >> getting a lot of feedback about the lack of bees on fruit trees in >> western Washington. I looked around myself and the problem is real. >> Now I wonder if other parts of the world that has Varroa has the same >> problem? We have lost many of our hobby beekeepers do to varroa and >> they don't want to start up again. This could affect wildlife that >> lives off of berrys and nuts. The real gold that the honeybee does >> for man is pollenation. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 May 1996 18:12:45 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: MR MARK G SPAGNOLO Subject: Kona Hi Joel: Thanks for the response to my response! We run our advertisement in the ABJ permanently. We are not always hiring people, but when we need people we usually have a couple of interested applicants. To be honest with you, you are over qualified for the jobs we have here. We hire people to catch queens. Although we prefer to hire people with bee experience, anyone can learn to catch queens in a week! The jobs are almost exclusively temporary (January through June) and pay between $6.50 and $10.00 per hour, depending on experience. Our usual new hire is a young, single guy with some bee experience who is looking for a way to escape Winter. Kona Queen provides housing and health insurance. Kona Queen is exclusively a queen producer. We do not run for honey or pollination. In fact, paying for pollination in Hawaii is unheard of. A few honey produces operate here, but they honey is almost exclusively bakery grade. Colony yields can be as high as 350 lbs, but you have to remember that this is over a 12 month period and requires extensive moving. You are correct, the cost of living in Hawaii is outrageous. Everything, and I mean everything, is 30 to 50% higher than on the Mainland. Gas is $1.75 a gallon, and has been that price for three years. Costco, Wal-Mart and K-Mart recently arrived and they have helped lower the prices. Milk was $4.70 a gallon, but is beginnng to drop. A popular saying in Hawaii is that "Hawaii has one of everything,.... but only one!" You very quickly learn the meaning of the word monopoly. But none of this means that it isn't one of the best areas in the world for raising queens! We have 350 bright sunny days every year. Rain comes at night. Every day is a breeding day. We are located on the back side of Mauna Loa (the world's most massive mountain) which means we do not have the gusty tradewinds that sweep across the rest of the state. Finally, you were wondering about the crops we are moving the bees into. Well, we move the bees into a Eucalyptus forest during December and January. The flow is usually strong enough to boost the colonies in anticipation of the February queens season. Hawaiian honey producers move their bees into macadamia nut orchards, Christmas berry (Brazilian Pepper) locations and Lehua/Ohia forests. Some areas also have a coffee bloom. Aloha, Mark at Kona Queen document2 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 May 1996 17:27:22 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Jeffrey R. Tooker" Subject: Re: Feral Bees At 09:17 AM 5/1/96 -0500, you wrote: >I have gone out this last week and taken two feral hives (one from a house >and one that moved into an old hive). The feral bees are larger and quite a >bit more agressive than the honeybees that I am use to keeping. The feral >bees are large enough that the stinger will go through my canvas gloves and >I have to revert to leather gloves. > >Is it common for feral bees to be more agressive and does nature make these >bees larger or are beekeepers breeding for smaller bees? > >The bees that moved into the old hive, (it was a mess) didn't have any >visible mites either tracial or varrora. I was wondering if anyone can tell >me how to ID the africanized bees? This might explain the agressivness and >I have heard that the africanized bees are less tolerant to the mites. I >live in south central Oklahoma and we havn't had any reports of the >africanized bees in this area yet. I hope I'm not the first. > >Any help is appreciated. > >Richard Barnes >rbarnes@halnet.com > >Richard: Try this web site click on AHB. Also maby Espenser in Brazil will have the best information. I can get the translation to and from Portuguese taken care of if you wish. Espensers e-mail address is: Ademilson Espencer Egea Soares If you have any other questions you might want to use my personal e-mail. Best of luck Jeffrey 33600 Navion Paynes Creek Ca. 96075 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 May 1996 18:42:26 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Jeffrey R. Tooker" Subject: neemazad??? Comments: cc: andy.nachbaur@beenet.com Andy and all: Try this I found it intresting. http://terranet.ab.ca/narc-94.html#mites More to follow. Jeffrey 33600 Navion Paynes Creek Ca. 96075 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 May 1996 19:33:35 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Jeffrey R. Tooker" Subject: neemazad??? Comments: cc: andy.nachbaur@beenet.com Andy and all: Try this I found it intresting. Use Alta Vista search engine and look up "neem extract" lots of good stuff comes up. Andy on your Azadirachtin it is neem extract as per http://www.us.net/~steptoe/286830.htm Later Jeffrey 33600 Navion Paynes Creek Ca. 96075 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 May 1996 23:59:05 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Brian Tassey Subject: Re: Plastic frame usage I'm running about 40-50% Pierco's in brood chamber and honey supers. I've found them to be durable (some are 15+ years old). The problem with the weight is that they are about 10-15% greater in cell space so the honey storage is greater (wood frames take up alot of internal space). Side by side a plastic drawn out is lighter when empty than a similar sized wood. You better have ate your Wheaties when you pull plugged out deeps with all plastics, they are very heavy. We are very rough with our supers and shake bees that don't leave following the acid pads. The new version of the Pierco has been improved greatly. Woods don't hold up to the abuse like a plastic does. The strength of the ears is much improved. My biggest complaint is that like any plastic product that is vacuum molded it's precise. The edges and corners are sharp angles and when you work bees all day and handle hundreds of these frames your hands are going to be blistered. They are not as forgiving as woods. I wear light cloth gloves when I handle them it cuts down a little on the roughness. They are redesigning their molds with the help of Dave Cowen (Uncapper mfg. etc.) and have said that the edges are going to be rounded, the ears beveled up, and the bottoms beveled inward to facilitate running them through high-speed uncappers. Should be an improvement. You should just try some and see if it fits you and your operation. I've bought thousands of them and just recently another 8,000. I think it's a good product. I also live 5 hours from the plant so the economics might be better for me than yourself. In the long run they are more cost effective for me and that's the point of commercial beekeeping, putting more in the bank than taking out. Hope that helps some! Brian Tassey ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 May 1996 06:00:00 GMT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Andy Nachbaur Organization: WILD BEE'S BBS (209) 826-8107 LOS BANOS, CA Subject: neemazad??? >From: "Jeffrey R. Tooker" >Date: Wed, 1 May 1996 19:33:35 -0700 >Subject: neemazad??? > Use Alta Vista search engine and look up "neem extract" >lots of good stuff comes up. Andy on your Azadirachtin it is neem >extract as per Yes, that is the same stuff, and those were good sites, maybe you missed this one: ERIC MUSSEN --------------- Home Phone: (916) 758-4393 Give him a call and bend his ear! Job Title: Extension Apiculturist Job Description: University liaison to beekeepers and others interested in honey bees and pollination. Dedicated Time/Area of Activity: 85% Extension 15% Research Current Project(s): Controlling varroa with neem extract. l l l l l l l l l l UC DAVIS, California USA --- ~ QMPro 1.53 ~ ... And where the bee with cowslip bells was wrestling. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 May 1996 11:54:21 GMT+1 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Gajdo?ik Ji+i,4973,K110" Organization: VA BRNO Subject: dictionary I am a Czech beginner beekeeper and new subscriber to BEE-L too. I would like to exchange my experiences with other beekeepers, but my knowledge english language is no very well. Help me! If you have got some dictionary english-czech/czech-english, appplicable for beekeepers send me please a message. I will buy it. Thank you ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 May 1996 12:42:54 +0200 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Josip KLECZEK Subject: Re: dictionary Greetings, sory my dictionaries (I have written several of them) are only from astronomy and space sciences - which would not help you. Regards Josip Kleczek, Astronomical Inst. Ondrejov. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 May 1996 06:52:10 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Aaron Morris Subject: User unknown The unknown user at uoguelph has been manually removed from BEE-L. This will solve the unknown user problem. /Aa ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 May 1996 05:30:30 -0600 Reply-To: allend@internode.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Allen Dick Organization: The Beekeepers Subject: logs I think I remember you said you were going to make the BEE-L logs available by the web. I haven't heard more. Adam & I are still storing them on sunsite and keeping the current one on my site. What are your plans? Regards Allen W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper VE6CFK RR#1, Swalwell, Alberta Canada T0M 1Y0 Internet:dicka@cuug.ab.ca & allend@internode.net Honey. Bees, & Art ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 May 1996 06:46:16 -0600 Reply-To: allend@internode.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Allen Dick Organization: The Beekeepers Subject: Re: logs > I think I remember you said you were going to make the BEE-L logs > available by the web. Ooops. This was supposed to go to Aaron only. That's what comes of writing as soon as I'm up at 6 AM -- before the coffe starts to work. Sorry. But seeing as I'm here and writing, I should mention for any new to the list that the logs are still available by web brouser at http://www.internode.net/~allend/logs.html The most recent log is usually somewhat up to date. When they are complete at the end of each month, I FTP them to Adam and he puts them in one of his directories on Sunsite. So although you see pointers to them on one of my pages, the actual logs are there and also available by FTP. The latest log is over 1 meg in size BTW, thanks to enthusiastic discussion (as well as many long quotes and some huge signature lines -- as well as misdirected private email such as mine :(). This log size has been growing over the last several years and has doubled, I think, in the last year. Of course the logs are also available by LISTSERV, and Aaron was talking about linking thenm to the web, I seem to recall, so I was just checking to ensure Adam's work and mine on this have not become redundant. I presume that all are aware of the large amount of beekeeping material Adam has accumulated on Sunsite? Later... Regards Allen W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper VE6CFK RR#1, Swalwell, Alberta Canada T0M 1Y0 Internet:dicka@cuug.ab.ca & allend@internode.net Honey. Bees, & Art ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 May 1996 08:51:48 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: WILLIAM G LORD Subject: ant disaster Hey guys, Do you really want to be pouring gasoline and diesel fuel into the ground to kill ants? You know that you will end up drinking the gas one of these days don't you? It is even less logical to ignite the fuel, as there is insuficient oxygen in the ground to burn, all you get is a nice visible flame, but you do reverse some of the damage you have done. if you want to pour something in the ground use boiling water. It will kill the ants and not harm the ground water. Bill Lord -- WILLIAM G LORD E-Mail : wglord@franklin Internet: wglord@franklin.ces.ncsu.edu Phone : 9194963344 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 May 1996 11:06:42 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "" Subject: Re: dictionary Hello IBRA has published a number of beekeeping dictionaries over the past few years. You may want to order from them in Cardiff, UK. For those on this side of the Atlantic, I try to keep one or two on hand at all times. Larry Connor Wicwas Press ljconnor@aol.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 May 1996 14:13:30 GMT Reply-To: Tim_Sterrett@westtown.edu Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Tim Sterrett Organization: Westtown School Subject: feral bees RICHARD BARNES writes: > Is it common for feral bees to be more agressive and does nature make these >bees larger or are beekeepers breeding for smaller bees? Many hobby beekeepers keep only bees that are collected as swarms and they do not requeen. In twenty-plus years, I have not heard anyone suggest that feral bees are any different from package bees. Feral bees that swarm have been successful in the area where they live; this success is a vote in their favor. I hasten to add that in my Varroa-infested area of southeastern Pennsylvania, USA, I am not seeing evidence of any feral bees. This is a big change from the experience of the last twenty years. Tim Sterrett Westtown, (Southeastern) Pennsylvania, USA tim_sterrett@westtown.edu ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 May 1996 11:22:36 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jim Moore DTN276-9448 ogo1/e17 508-496-9448 Subject: Need advice!! I installed my first 2 packages ever last night. The first went fine. For the second I was a little excited and rushed it . The feeder can was empty, and the queen cage has a lot of wax on it. I hesitated at scraping the wax off and went ahead and installed the cage after poking a hole in the candy. I installed the bees and added the feeder and closed up the hive. Later I realized I never saw/insprected the queen, oops! This morning one hive is very active and the other (with uninspected queen) much less so. My question is should I open the hive and inspect queen cage or wait and see? My plan at this point is to check both hive in 4 days but I might need a replacement queen now. Thanks in advance. Side note, got everything done and wasn't bothered by any bees. My kids were watching from inside and were impressed. Brushed off a few clinging bees and went inside to celebrate. As I took off a pullover shirt - zing! I got stung on the hand - oh well. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 May 1996 20:50:32 +0200 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Rudolf E. Bahr" Subject: Re: dictionary In-Reply-To: <33425B75FA7@vps.vabo.cz> Hello, Eva Crane, the former head of IBRA, has written a lot of beekeeping dictionaries inclusive such languages as Hindi, Chinese, Arabic, Japanese, Finnish, Hungarian, Russian. I'm sorry, I didn't see any English-Czech dictionary, but perhaps you are speaking a bit of Russian? Anyway, the e.mail address of IBRA is: ibra@cardiff.ac.uk There they sell those dictionaries at a rather low price of 2.10 English pounds. Regards, R.E.Bahr NISI APES FINIS On Thu, 2 May 1996, Gajdo?ik Ji+i,4973,K110 wrote: > I am a Czech beginner beekeeper and new subscriber to BEE-L too. > I would like to exchange my experiences with other beekeepers, but > my knowledge english language is no very well. Help me! > If you have got some dictionary english-czech/czech-english, > appplicable for beekeepers send me please a message. I will buy it. > > Thank you > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 May 1996 14:35:02 PDT Reply-To: TTOWNSE@ibm.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Tim Townsend Subject: Re: ant disaster ---------------Original Message--------------- Hey guys, Do you really want to be pouring gasoline and diesel fuel into the ground to kill ants? You know that you will end up drinking the gas one of these days don't you? It is even less logical to ignite the fuel, as there is insuficient oxygen in the ground to burn, all you get is a nice visible flame, but you do reverse some of the damage you have done. if you want to pour something in the ground use boiling water. It will kill the ants and not harm the ground water. The only problem with this idea is that if your twenty miles from home and at you fourth yard of the day it can be somewhat difficult to find a kettle, let alone a plug in. Another thing of note is that there are alot of micro organisms that just seem to love petroleum products, here in Alberta with the large amount of oilfield work that goes on, it sometimes happens that some oil gets spilled, and its kind of interesting that the next year thats the greenest grass around, so as far as polluting the ground, I have to disagree, I'm only advising using a little diesel on the ants ( 2-4 liters) not a truck load. :) TPLR HONEY FARMS Tim Townsend RR 1 Stony Plain Alberta TTOWNSE@IBM.NET Bill Lord -- WILLIAM G LORD E-Mail : wglord@franklin Internet: wglord@franklin.ces.ncsu.edu Phone : 9194963344 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 May 1996 17:46:28 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Michael Lance High Sr." Subject: Re: feral bees Comments: To: Tim Sterrett In-Reply-To: <913406.25892193@westtown.edu> Tim, While I can understand your reluctance to hive any feral swarms, I think its very important we all keep tabs as much as possible on ANY feral colonies. If they have suvived in a mite infested area, it would be good to know how.This may help to save our apiaries.As I mentioned before, I have yet to encounter ANY feral bees this year here in central Va. Although I continue to search, I feel less encouraged with each passing day. Mike High "I take my chances,I don't mind working without a net, I take my chances,I take my chances every chance I get" Mary Chapin Carpenter ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 May 1996 23:31:00 +0100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Haehnle/Keppler Subject: Re: Apis cerana F. Ruttner wrote in his book "Biogeography and Taxonomy of Honeybees" on page 150 "Hetterospecific instrumental insemination of A. mellifera and A. cerana (with semen of the reciprocal species) is feasible: spermatzoa enter the spermateca ... No hybrid lava or imago developed in these experiments (Ruttner and Maul 1983 Experimental analysis of reproductive interspecific isolation of Apis mellifera L. and Apis cerana Fabr. Apidologie 14: 309-327) Personaly I think A. mellifera has to go its one way to find a coexistence with the varroa mite. Only about 3/5 of the A. mellifera genome is similar the DNA of A. cerana. So A. mellifera may have to develope its one defence mechanism and cannot copy these of A. cerana. Andreas Hdhnle ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 May 1996 19:02:18 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Martin Touhey Subject: Re: Need advice!! Congratulations. If the queen is not out open the queen cage and let her out. She should go down into the foundation and start laying brood. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 May 1996 20:15:34 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Brian Tassey Subject: Re: bee moving! 2500 by hand! You remind me of a friend of mine that runs 200-300 hives and loads by hand. I've been trying to get him to let me help him in designing and building an electric boom so he's able to enjoy his "golden years" without wearing a brace. If you can weld or invest in a little shop time it's well worth the time and money. I run around 1800 hives depending on how the wind blows. I often pat my bobcat on the engine and give thanks that my hives are on pallets. It's 90 degrees here in CA and I've got to move 500 hives into the melons by Saturday morning. I've loaded by hand many times but I'm glad this 500 is being loaded by forklift. I average about 6 moves a year though, so maybe 2 isn't all that badby hand. Check out the newest issue of ABJ there's an article about a loader in the letters to the editor section. Brian ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 May 1996 00:27:12 GMT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "F. D. Humphrey" Subject: Queen Cages Hi all A couple of years ago, I purchased some queen guard queen cages from Brushy Mountain Bee Farms. I would like to buy some more, but they no longer carry them. If anyone knows where I can purchase some of these cages, please let me know. Frank Humphrey beekeeper@worldnet.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 May 1996 21:35:40 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "John E. Taylor III" Subject: Re: ant disaster At 08:51 AM 5/2/96 -0400, you wrote: >Hey guys, > >Do you really want to be pouring gasoline and diesel fuel into the ground >to kill ants? You know that you will end up drinking the gas one of >these days don't you? It is even less logical to ignite the fuel, as >there is insuficient oxygen in the ground to burn, all you get is a nice >visible flame, but you do reverse some of the damage you have done. if >you want to pour something in the ground use boiling water. It will kill >the ants and not harm the ground water. You're right, of course. The hydrocarbons do neither the air nor the groundwater any good at all. But oh, what a lovely job a half cup of gasoline does on an ant or yellow jacket nest! -- John E. Taylor III (W3ZID) E-Mail: w3zid@voicenet.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 May 1996 22:38:50 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Joel Govostes Subject: Dandelion-like pollen source - name? I have a plant ID question for the botanists in the group -- Here in central NY the grass is growing up well & trees budding out, maples blooming heavily. No dandelions here yet BUT lots of similar (smaller) yellow flowers which the bees are working well for pollen and nectar. Anyone have an idea what these flowers are called? They grow along roadsides, in sunny spots, and along the sunny side of buildings. It's a slightly different (perhaps less "bright") shade of yellow than dandelion, with smaller diameter, but otherwise very close in shape and structure. (And no bladelike dandelion-type leaves near ground under blossom.) These are always the first wildflowers we see on the ground in spring. Thanks ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 May 1996 00:32:24 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Dave Green, Eastern Pollinator Newsletter" Subject: Re: Dandelion-like pollen source - name? In a message dated 96-05-02 23:40:02 EDT, jwg6@cornell.edu (Joel Govostes) writes: > No dandelions here yet BUT lots of similar (smaller) >yellow flowers which the bees are working well for pollen and nectar. >Anyone have an idea what these flowers are called? They grow along >roadsides, in sunny spots, and along the sunny side of buildings. It's a >slightly different (perhaps less "bright") shade of yellow than dandelion, >with smaller diameter, but otherwise very close in shape and structure. >(And no bladelike dandelion-type leaves near ground under blossom.) These >are always the first wildflowers we see on the ground in spring. "Colt's Foot", perhaps. Pollinator@aol.com Dave Green, PO Box 1200, Hemingway, SC 29554 Practical Pollination Home Page http://users.aol.com/pollinator/polpage1.html ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 May 1996 14:48:54 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "David. E. Goble" Subject: Re: Trying to locate a reference... >Hello. >Trying to find this reference: > >Melksham, KJ 1985 The Synthesis, Testing and Theory on the Mode of Action >of Semiochemicals (repellents) for the Honey Bee (_Apis mellifera_ L.). > >This is a masters thesis. The Chemistry department at the University of >Queensland, Australia, where this work was done, cannot seem to supply me >with the thesis or point me to where it might be. Would anyone know >where I may find this? Is it archived? My library cannot get it through >inter-library loan. > >thanks, >Adam > >Adam Finkelstein >Entomology >324 Price Hall >VA Tech, >Blacksburg, VA 24001-0325 >-- >_________________ >adamf@vtaix.cc.vt.edu > Hi Adam; As a past researcher in bee physiology, you may be approaching the wrong department in the University, I suggest it would be in the zooology department or the entomology department, at the University of Queensland or the James Cook University in Townsville, Queensland. Or you may get some aid from the Queensland Primary Industries Office. Thanks from : goble@eastend.com.au http://www.eastend.com.au/~goble degob1@mugc.cc.monash.ed.au ( David Goble ) American Beach Kangaroo Island South Australia ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 May 1996 14:48:59 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "David. E. Goble" Subject: Re: Beekeeping as a hobby and commerially >Hi Beekeepers, > >I'm kinda new to the list. I do have a few questions maybe someone can clearly >answer. > >To start a bee hobby. How many colonies should I begin with? Is one hive >consider a hobby? >Also how many hives would I have to increase to be considered a commerical beek >eeper? > >I thank anyone whom replies to my questions. > >Elizabeth Balogh > Hi Elizabeth; To learn bee management, one, two or three hives can be ideal. To move into honey production you will need to work for a commerial beekeeper for at least one season, perferably for two seasons. To gain a basic understanding of bee physiology, you will need to read a lot and manipulate your hives for at least five years to have enough experience to enter the commerial world. A commerial world in beekeeping means an operation of thousands of hives. To make money and to gain tax advantages, is a business criteria as against a honey sales criteria. For more information and understanding see our home page "Kangaroo Island Beekeeping", the URL is below in my signature. Thanks from : goble@eastend.com.au http://www.eastend.com.au/~goble degob1@mugc.cc.monash.ed.au ( David Goble ) American Beach Kangaroo Island South Australia ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 May 1996 10:09:40 GMT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Steve Pearce Subject: bee anaesthetics (questn) Dear Bee-L people, I have read in an old book the use of chloroform in anaethesising bees, for example when a very vicious but strong colony of bees needs requeening. I have in the past during the course of my undergraduate degree anaethesised Drosophila melanogaster with ether, and I have read in Ashburners book of Drosophila laboratory methods that this can lead to irreversible behavioural changes. These behavioural changes (if they occur) are likely to be more serious in bees than Drosophila living in a milk bottle. I was wondering whether anyone has any experience of any of these methods, and particular in relation to behavioural changes many thanks Steve Pearce Kilspindie Scotland ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 May 1996 04:16:22 -0600 Reply-To: allend@internode.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Allen Dick Organization: The Beekeepers Subject: Re: bee moving! > 2500 by hand! You remind me of a friend of mine that runs 200-300 > hives and loads by hand. I've been trying to get him to let me help > him in designing and building an electric boom so he's able to enjoy > his "golden years" without wearing a brace. If you can weld or > invest in a little shop time it's well worth the time and money. FWIW I still have a few pictures of some details of my loader on www.internode.net/~allend/loader1.jpg www.internode.net/~allend/loader2.jpg www.internode.net/~allend/loader3.jpg That I put there for a fellow to use in building one. Unfortunately the second roll of film didn't turn out, but I do have an ascii drawing of the hold-down construction that I'll send to anyone interested (email me privately). The cradle design came from California originally, I believe, and it is very handy, because one can pick up a standard hive from two to five boxes high, and when it is in the air, it is very secure and unlikely to come apart or fall over, etc. We were using the loader much less since we went to four hives on a pallet, but we are now moving 1,000 such hives (packages) out using a forklift to load, and the loader to unload, since this saves hauling a forklift up and down the highway. We might start using the loader for loading too, because it looks faster and less likely to damage pallets, but it is more work -- and less fun -- and requires careful levelling for such weights to be easily manoeverable. We were only able to lift single hives previously, but I just (several days ago) built a larger version of the cradle shown (but with no hold down) that lifts 48" X 40" pallets. The (homemade) loader shown on the site listed above lifts 250 pounds or so at the *end* of a 19 foot boom, so that is enough for four singles -- and possibly hungry doubles -- on a pallet. If we pin or chain the boom so that the trolley cannot accidently go past 3/4 way out, we can get the load up to 330 pounds or so. Pallets weigh 50lbs each, so that leaves 280lbs to be divided between 4 hives. At the 1/2 point, we get 500 pounds -- but of course, we are getting to a pretty small circle -- 19 foot diameter, 9.5 foot radius, and that is good only for putting things from the front of the deck onto the ground right beside the truck and vice versa. At such distance, we are able to safely lift drums of honey, but only by using a 2:1 pulley setup I built that works at a fixed point on the boom. We loaded semis of honey using that before we got a forklift). I have a Kelley loader sitting around unused, and it would lift the same as a small forklift, but it weighs over 1,000lbs and needs a three ton truck. We run mostly stretched one tons (10 foot cab to axle) with 16 foot decks -- and 16 foot trailers when required. I think there are lighter models out there. I paid $500 Canadian for my Kelley and the motors alone (3) are worth that and more. I imagine there are quite few Kelly loaders sitting around behind honey houses and a $20 ad in Gleanings, Speedy Bee, and or ABJ would likely bring a flood of response with prices from $250 and up. The motors on them alone are worth finding, since they are efficient, powerful, reversable, and 12 volt. If you are building your own, you can get motors direct from Kelley, but don't forget you need their solenoids too if you want reversing action and remote control using light wires. I used to wind my own reversing motors on an old Ford starter (1956) frame, using two fields, but gave it up in favour of Kelley motors. For those who have never seen a boom loader work, they are like having an overhead shop crane that allows moving hives, (and supplies on 16" by 20" pallets) almost effortlessly anywhere within a circle defined by the boom length -- in my case a 19 foot radius. This of course includes the whole truck deck itself. The boom rotates around a centre post that must be vertical, and is adjusted -- if necessary -- either by shimming the wheels of the truck, careful selection of terrain, or preferrably by built-in adjustments that tilt the post a bit. On mine, the end of the boom can actually come within 3 feet of the ground at full adjustment each way. I have no front/back tilt and seldom need it. Kelleys have both front/back and side-to-side tilt. > Check > out the newest issue of ABJ there's an article about a loader in the > letters to the editor section. Thanks for the tip. If folks are interested on keeping going on this thread, I'll be glad to add some more construction and use tips and details. But I need some encouragement to take more pictures, do drawings, write instructions etc. The pix on my website were to be temporary, but perhaps we should enhance it a bit with better pictures, other peoples' pictures and info, etc. and make it permanent? Regards Allen W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper VE6CFK RR#1, Swalwell, Alberta Canada T0M 1Y0 Internet:dicka@cuug.ab.ca & allend@internode.net Honey. Bees, & Art ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 May 1996 08:36:24 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Mike Griggs Subject: Re: Dandelion-like pollen source - name? As indicated by anouther post the yellow flower that is out there, looks somewhat like dandelions is colts foot. Mike >I have a plant ID question for the botanists in the group -- Here in >central NY the grass is growing up well & trees budding out, maples >blooming heavily. No dandelions here yet BUT lots of similar (smaller) >yellow flowers which the bees are working well for pollen and nectar. >Anyone have an idea what these flowers are called? They grow along >roadsides, in sunny spots, and along the sunny side of buildings. It's a >slightly different (perhaps less "bright") shade of yellow than dandelion, >with smaller diameter, but otherwise very close in shape and structure. >(And no bladelike dandelion-type leaves near ground under blossom.) These >are always the first wildflowers we see on the ground in spring. >Thanks ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 May 1996 10:13:04 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Mike Ramundo Organization: University at Albany Computing & Network Services Subject: Re: Subscription Confirmation For reasons not yet understood, approx 15% of subscribers received a second ( third ? ) request to confirm their subscription. If you did, or if you don't remember, please send mail to LISTSERV@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU with the one line message: CONFIRM BEE-L Thanks, postmast ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 May 1996 05:45:32 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: BRUNI REICH Subject: Re: Iannuzzi Method for Treating T-Mite Comments: To: John Iannuzzi Comments: cc: Kovac1 Frank , Romanik John In-Reply-To: I'm gonna put it on tha calendar for 1 September right now.!!! On Sun, 21 Apr 1996, John Iannuzzi wrote: > 1. Since the appearance of tracheal mite, I've never used the recommended > treatment of a 50-gram pak of menthol crystals applied about 1 sep when > it is still warm enuf to convert the stuff to gas. > 2. Today I placed a paper towel saturated w/vegetable oil (any kind; cheaper > the better) between the two deep broodchambers. Within a week the bees will > have removed it. Especially noticeable if one runs pollen traps as I do, on > seven of my strongest colonies (only have 12 now). > 3. I also do this September 1st when I repeat the treatment a week later. > 4. In talks w/my fellow beekeepers who use menthol, my survival rate is > as good > as theirs. > 5. Theory is that the oil makes mite transference between bees difficult. > 6. I know that people use diluted formic acid for the same purpose even > tho it is said to be "not approved yet." C'est la vie. Suum cuique. > > Jack the Bman > Ellicott City Md USA > Thermometer hit 84degrees here today; bees bringing in > a green pollen (maple?) like mad (collected a full pound despite the fact > Maryland USA is NOT pollen country; > also visiting my plum, pear, apple, cherry and peach trees just breaking > into bloom. Sun21apr96 2041edt > > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 May 1996 09:42:36 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Dave Green, Eastern Pollinator Newsletter" Subject: The Bee Trucks are Rollin'..... Tractor-trailer loads of honeybee hives are rolling north along Interstate 95 to orchards in Pennsylvania, New York, and New England, and along Route 75 to Michigan, where they are badly needed for pollination of our fruits. We've been busting our butts here to get everything the South can spare (we need more bees here, too, for our melons, squash, & cukes). But we've done our best, and we're proud of our contribution. New York, one of the major apple producing states, needs about 30 thousand hives for this pollination. My own guess is that probably less than 20 thousand are available this year. More and more commercial beekeepers have been migrating south for the winter, where they can get better survival, then get an early start on raising queens and starting new hives. New Yorkers can produce queens and new hives, but not early enough to pollinate spring fruit. The major eastern wintering grounds are in Florida and South Carolina. Florida has the advantage of an early honey crop -- orange blossom, but this same crop causes bees to dwindle somewhat, as its pollen is poor quality, and the removal of that honey makes it a difficult race to get ready in time for northern orchards. South Carolina has especially rich spring pollen for raising queens and nucs (starter hives), but the main honey flow coincides with northern fruit bloom, so beekeepers traditionally have left just as the honey flow starts. The price of honey is soaring, so northern fruit growers with pollination needs may be in competition with honey production. It's fingernail chewin' time for beekeepers who may have a major part of their livestock on those trucks. An accident, or simply a breakdown, or irresponsbible trucker who parks for a few hours in the heat, can make or break the beekeeper. Bees, once loaded, MUST be kept rolling, so they can ventilate and cool. Beekeepers once used a lot of refrigerated trucks, but the practice has mostly been abandoned, due to reefer breakdowns, or just weak units that could not cope with the heat production of the bees. The bees are energised by stored sunshine, sugars produced by plants and stored in the honey reserves. When they are loaded on a truck they must be cooled by water or moving air, as they will begin to overheat, which makes them excited, which makes them produce more heat, which makes them more excited, .........MELTDOWN! Reports keep arriving here, or heavy losses of bees overwintered in the northeast. The president of the Empire State (NY) Beekeepers' Association estimates statewide average losses of around 70%. Some attribute the unusually severe winter; some blame varroa mites (though commercial beekeepers treat for mites). Others note the unusual honeydew production in many areas last summer. Honeydew contains a lot of indigestible material, and, when bees cannot fly to relieve themselves, can cause the death of the hives, by dysentery. The heavy winter losses are sure to stimulate more beekeeper migration to the south. Pollination service is becoming more and more critical. In the past, large growers used imported bees, but smaller fruit and vegetable growers relied on wild honeybees, bumble bees, carpenter bees, and other solitary bees for their pollination. Pollinator populations have been dwindling, and growers cannot rely on pollination by accident. New parasitc mites have devastated wild honeybees, and pesticide misuse continues to decimate all kinds of bees. A survey of California beekeepers last year showed that pollination service provided more total beekeeper income than honey production. This is true in some other fruit or vegetable regions of the country, as well. Many crops must have bees. The biggest pollination event, of course is the California almond crop, which needs about 300 thousand hives, and sucks bees from as far away as Florida. Brokers have approached me, here in South Carolina, to ship bees to almonds. Apples are another biggie and bees must be trucked to Washington, the Great Lakes and the Northeast for these. There are never enough local bees for these big crops. Then there are cherries, pears, plums, cranberries, blueberries, kiwifruit, and many other fruits, not to speak of watermelons, cantaloupes, squash, pumpkins, cukes, and many seed crops. There is a lot of misunderstanding of the role of the bee. Many folks think that the bee goes to the blossom and the fruit "sets." One bee visit may make an apple, but it is likely to be a poor, small, misshapen, starchy apple. Size, shape, and sugar content are directly related to the number of seeds set. Yes, we should refer to seed set, rather than fruit set. And good seed set, to produce quality apple, must have multiple bee visits. Watermelons are similar. Many poor quality melons reach the market. Small, flat sided, or gourd-shaped melons exhibit the results of only partial pollination. White seeds in the melon are unpollinated, and large numbers of these indicate a melon that never can reach it's potential. "This farmer used TOO MUCH SODA!" Consumers know a poor melon when they taste it, but they don't know the reason. The farmer had TOO FEW BEES! The white seeds tell the story. Every now and then, the beekeepers nightmare occurs -- an accident on the highway. Usually jumpy public officials declare a disaster and kill the bees, rather than get qualified people to salvage and clean up. They need to keep in mind that they are not dealing with $50,000 worth of bees, but a million dollars worth of apples. Such an accident occurred a couple years ago where a tractor-trailer flipped on its side. The bees were strapped and contained within netting. A beekeeper with air bags, who could have righted the entire load, was within a half hour of arrival, when an idiot cut the straps, spilling everything and causing general havoc. The bees were destroyed, and some orchards did not get their bees. The last I heard, this was still in litigation. We recently helped load a truckload of bees for New York apples. As we began to load, there were some rumbles, and a shower broke. Did you know that wet clothing is about the same as NO clothing, when it comes to bee stings? The owner was determined to roll before midnight, and there was no way to talk him into waiting for morning, so we continued to load into that warm, wet night, punctuated by my shrieks and running commentary (and I am an experienced beekeeper, who doesn't mind a few stings). The mission was accomplished. The bees went on their way to the apples. My guess is that the owner took 300+ stings without a complaint. I thank God that American agriculture still has people with the kind of committment to get the job done, when it HAS to be done. So ...... here's to you, New York, New England, Michigan, and other eastern fruit regions. We send you our best..... "Y'all send us some of your best fruit now, too, heah!" Pollinator@aol.com Dave Green, PO Box 1200, Hemingway, SC 29554 Practical Pollination Home Page http://users.aol.com/pollinator/polpage1.html ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 May 1996 08:48:07 +0000 Reply-To: P.Wright@ed.ac.uk Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Peter Wright Organization: Edinburgh University Subject: Re: Dandelion-like pollen source - name? In the U.K. this would almost ceratinly be colt's foot. Peter Wright ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 May 1996 14:03:11 +0000 Reply-To: P.Wright@ed.ac.uk Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Peter Wright Organization: Edinburgh University Subject: Re: bee anaesthetics (questn) Dear Steve, I cannot answer your question without knowing what kind of behaviour you are interested in. Some years ago I did some preliminary studies on using carbon dioxide to knock out bees after a training sequence, there was no problem with their recovery and rather mixed results as I recall in the effectiveness of the anesthesia. I'd be interested to hear more from you. Peter Wright Psychology Department Edinburgh University ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 May 1996 13:42:33 GMT Reply-To: Tim_Sterrett@westtown.edu Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Tim Sterrett Organization: Westtown School Subject: hiving feral swarms My message posted yesterday about feral swarms can be interpreted to mean that I avoid hiving feral swarms. I was trying to say just the opposite Many hobby beekeepers get their bees exclusively from swarms, either feral swarms or swarms from their own bee colonies. Until recently, feral swarms were a great resource. Tim Sterrett Westtown, (Southeastern) Pennsylvania, USA tim_sterrett@westtown.edu ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 May 1996 09:12:11 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Kriston M. Bruland" Subject: Re: Queen Cages In-Reply-To: "F. D. Humphrey" "Queen Cages" (May 3, 12:27am) On May 3, 12:27am, F. D. Humphrey wrote: > Subject: Queen Cages > Hi all > > A couple of years ago, I purchased some queen guard queen cages from Brushy > Mountain Bee Farms. I would like to buy some more, but they no longer carry > them. If anyone knows where I can purchase some of these cages, please let > me know. > > Frank Humphrey > beekeeper@worldnet.com >-- End of excerpt from F. D. Humphrey Hi Frank, Walter Kelley has them in this season's catalog. I have ordered other things from them and been quite satisfied. Their number is (800) 233-2899. The picture looks the same as the one in the old Brushy Mountain catalog. Kris Bruland Member of Mt. Baker Beekeepers Association Bellingham, WA U.S.A. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 May 1996 10:37:14 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Adony Melathopoulos Subject: Re: CO2 + bee anaesthetics In-Reply-To: Steve : I'm not of the context of putting your bees down, but I use CO2 gas and it works very good. I read somewhere while chilling can lead to metabolic changes in insects, CO2 only effects bee longevity. For the pesticide studies I do I believe CO2 is the least invasive to the bees physiology. Any other views on this subject. Cheers, Adony On Fri, 3 May 1996, Steve Pearce wrote: > Dear Bee-L people, > > I have read in an old book the use of chloroform in anaethesising bees, > for example when a very vicious but strong colony of bees needs > requeening. > > I have in the past during the course of my undergraduate degree > anaethesised Drosophila melanogaster with ether, and I have read in > Ashburners book of Drosophila laboratory methods that this can lead to > irreversible behavioural changes. > > These behavioural changes (if they occur) are likely to be more serious > in bees than Drosophila living in a milk bottle. > > I was wondering whether anyone has any experience of any of these > methods, and particular in relation to behavioural changes ######################################## *** Adony Melathopoulos **************** ***** Center for Pest Management ******* ******** Simon Fraser University ******* *********** Burnaby, British Coumbia *** ************** CANADA ****************** ######################################## 'If men had wings and bore black feathers, few of them would be clever enough to be crows' - Rev. Henry Ward Beecher, mid-1800's e-mail : melathop@sfu.ca tel : (604) 291-4163 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 May 1996 13:18:18 -0600 Reply-To: allend@internode.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Allen Dick Organization: The Beekeepers Subject: Re: bee anaesthetics (questn) > I cannot answer your question without knowing what kind of behaviour > you are interested in. Some years ago I did some preliminary studies > on using carbon dioxide to knock out bees after a training sequence, > there was no problem with their recovery and rather mixed results as > I recall in the effectiveness of the anesthesia. I've been wondering about the effects of CO2 on bees since I received some package bees from New Zealand that had been packed with bags of dry ice at various places around the pallet. They looked very dopey when they arrived, but were clustered properly. After we installed them, we had some unusual effects, with bees and queens swarming out of brood chambers and combining in huge swarms. This only happened with the portion that we hived within 24 hours of arriving on the plane. The ones we held two days, seemed pretty normal and stayed put. The packages we received from Austrailia exhibited no such behavior, but they had been trucked and stored for several days after coming off the plane. I have wondered if it had anything to do with the CO2, and if it might, if the effects wear off after a day or so. Regards Allen W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper VE6CFK RR#1, Swalwell, Alberta Canada T0M 1Y0 Internet:dicka@cuug.ab.ca & allend@internode.net Honey. Bees, & Art ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 May 1996 17:59:48 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "John E. Taylor III" Subject: Re: bee anaesthetics (questn) At 10:09 AM 5/3/96 GMT, you wrote: > >I have read in an old book the use of chloroform in anaethesising bees, >for example when a very vicious but strong colony of bees needs >requeening. > [deletions] I'll vote with the people recommending CO2. Chloroform as an anesthetic can be rough on the liver of the person handling it, and is environmentally unfriendly. I have no idea what anesthetic doses can do to bees, but higher levels or longer exposures are lethal to them. -- John E. Taylor III (W3ZID) E-Mail: w3zid@voicenet.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 May 1996 23:10:00 GMT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Andy Nachbaur Organization: WILD BEE'S BBS (209) 826-8107 LOS BANOS, CA Subject: The Bee Trucks are Rollin'.....Tractor-trailer loads of honeybee hives are rolling north along ---------------------------------------- >From: "Dave Green, Eastern Pollinator Newsletter" >Date: Fri, 3 May 1996 09:42:36 -0400 >Subject: The Bee Trucks are Rollin'..... Hi Dave, GOOD JOB!, with some minor details that were maybe understated. > A survey of California beekeepers last year showed that pollination >service provided more total beekeeper income than honey production. I am sure this is what any "limited" survey would say, as the honey producers are, (how to say it), less then candid in stating what they are doing in California as elsewhere. California more times then not leads the nation in honey production, and if you were to add what California based bee's make out of state it would be much more. But it is true there are years that without the pollination income things would bee a lot leaner for California then it is with pollination. >true in some other fruit or vegetable regions of the country, as well. Many >crops must have bees. The biggest pollination event, of course is the >California almond crop, which needs about 300 thousand hives, and sucks bees >from as far away as Florida. Brokers have approached me, here in South >Carolina, to ship bees to almonds. California has a resident full time bee population that exceeds 400,000 hives and an additional 400,000 hives are brought to California for the spring Almond Bloom and the cash flow, estimated to be in excess of 10 million dollars, much of it is eaten up by ever increasing fuel costs. Gas seems to be following the retail price of honey which is about $2.00 a gallon or pound depending on which you are fueling up with. Some individual operations from out of state bring in tens of thousands of hives each. Beekeeper's from Florida did bring in many hives this winter and from what has been reported by other beekeepers some of them did not come in good condition and returned to Florida in no better condition. I am sure a lot of citrus honey was used to get them back in shape, pretty expensive feed at today's price. We have no "BeeLine" highways as such, but if all the bee hives in California were laid end to end it would be possible to walk from hive to hive without touching the pavement on highway 99 from Bakersfield to Sacramento and then some and thats several hundred miles. (Brian Ferguson ran that on his HP for me one night at a bee meeting when we both got burned out by other beekeepers wanting to spend our money for some socialistic bee program that would do no more for anyone then spend their money.) If you consider the total number of hives, a significant part of the total bee stocks in the United States, all concentrated on a single crop, and in a limited area, for the critical early spring build up time, it is no wonder that beekeepers all over the US are now having similar bee health problems. If one bee passes gas it could bee said that all will get a whiff of the odor in a short time considering how much of a bee is olfactory preceptors. BEE WARNED, and praise God none of us can afford the sophisticated DNA tests to determine the ancestors of our bees because for the last several seasons the F1 daughters of pure-o Tex-Mex bees have been in California by the thousands including their drones which could be pure Mexican in genetic history. None of these bees have posed any kind of threat or problem to the public or beekeepers in California or Texas, and NO reports of aggressive behaviour have been received. It is well to remember that way before the official finding of the one dead "1st killer" bee hive in a badger den hole in Kern County,..California had both feral and kept hives that have passed the metromorphicial(sp) tests for Afro genes and one feral hive in particular passed every know test for pure Afro genes. None of the hives tested in California showed any aggressive behaviour, and the one that was/is considered 100% by every scientific standard is living in a tree on a public golf course adjacent to a equestrian trail. The warning really is to be prepared that if someone is attacked and killed by bees, (and about a dozen people can be each year in the US statistically), that these people will be killed by "killer" bees, and if the DNA comes back AFRO you will be reading about it in the local papers. The truth will remain, it mattered not what the bee's roots are, if it kills you it is a "killer" bee, plain and simple. (AS is death by auto accident, reported as the "killer" FORD's or CHEVIES?) Well sounds like all US and Canadian beekeepers are busy and spring has sprung with a little more silence in the US bee yards and trees then what has been the norm in the recent past, and all beekeepers are going to be more then busy making up for the hives that have been lost. Well here in Central California our green season is about over and we are into our brown season, which may turn out to be a black one with all the grass and brush fires we have had a earlier then normal start on. Citrus honey production seems to be about 50-60 pounds per hive, but extracting of it is not done so it could be more or less. Potential for that BIG crop is not good in California because of the weather conditions, lack of rain in the prime southern areas, and hot winds, but I would expect it to be close to our normal one. ttul Andy- (c) Permission is granted to freely copy this document in any form, or to print for any use. (w)Opinions are not necessarily facts. Use at own risk. --- ~ QMPro 1.53 ~ ... A comely olde man as busie as a bee. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 May 1996 20:31:53 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Vince Coppola Subject: Re: Dandelion-like pollen source - name? In-Reply-To: On Thu, 2 May 1996, Joel Govostes wrote: > I have a plant ID question for the botanists in the group -- Here in > central NY the grass is growing up well & trees budding out, maples > blooming heavily. No dandelions here yet BUT lots of similar (smaller) > yellow flowers which the bees are working well for pollen and nectar. > Anyone have an idea what these flowers are called? They grow along > roadsides, in sunny spots, and along the sunny side of buildings. It's a > slightly different (perhaps less "bright") shade of yellow than dandelion, > with smaller diameter, but otherwise very close in shape and structure. > (And no bladelike dandelion-type leaves near ground under blossom.) These > are always the first wildflowers we see on the ground in spring. Sounds like colts foot,(Tussilago farfara) Take a look at an unopened flower bud and you will understand the name.> bbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbb b b b Vince & Carole Coppola vcoppola@epix.net b b Coppola Apiaries, (716)965-2904 b b 10220 Bradigan Rd. b b Forestville, N.Y. 14062 b b b b Queens bred for tracheal mite resistance b b Honey , Pollination b b Western New York Beekeepers Association b b b bbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbb ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 May 1996 21:57:07 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Albert W. Needham" Subject: "BeeWorks" Followup on my previous post about doing a software program on HoneyBees. Thanks to some great photos from P-O Gustafsson's web site, I have made the transition from "thinking" about it to "doing it". The program is named "BeeWorks" and has the following main topics (with sub-topics): -BeeWorks " An Educational Program About HoneyBees, Their Role In Nature, And Their Value To All Of Us Human Beings." -Introduction -Nature's Job For Honeybees -Who Does What Inside A BeeHive -HoneyBees And The BeeKeeper -Why Be Nice To HoneyBees? -BeeKeeping Is For Anybody Anywhere! Man, Woman and/or Child The program will be released as "Freeware". I have received some much appreciated encouragement by private e-mail. I could use a source for a good SVGA photo (in most any graphics format jpg,pcx,gif, etc.) that preferably shows a Worker, Drone and Queen in their appropriate size relationship to each other. I do not have a scanner, but I can screen capture, crop, etc. any photo in a computer format. Any help on this from any of you out there? I would also very much appreciate any short little vignettes, preferably with a "touch of humor", concerning anything about HoneyBees. Something from your own experience written in your own words (like you would tell a friend/relative). It sure would make the program more interesting and help to move it thru cyberspace.. You can remain anonymous or be credited as the author - your choice! Here's your shot at "cyberspace immortality!"-be you a hobbyist like myself or a "big bee guy". You had to start someplace early on. I know it is the busy time of the BeeKeeper's year-but if you can recall a good story - jot something down when you have a free moment! This nicely illustrated software program is a freebie from me (i.e., no profit) to our good friends - the HoneyBees. Reading some of the messages about the lack of feral bees seems to make it a very appropriate and timely contribution. Be a part of that contribution! The object is to try and persuade the general public to have a kinder eye for the HoneyBee. It is a modest attempt to try and move the public away from the same sort of reaction they have for Sharks! Just maybe, this program will be instrumental in persuading some John or Jane Q. in their backyard to step to the side and let the Bee pass rather than reach for the nearest can of lethal chemical spray! It may also catch the curiousity of someone who has a BeeKeeper hidden inside of them and doesn't know it yet. Thanks for your consideration. Al Needham "Hobbyist" Scituate, MA, USA ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 4 May 1996 07:31:39 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Joel Govostes Subject: Re: Dandelion-like pollen source - name? Vince Coppola responded >Sounds like colts foot,(Tussilago farfara) Take a look at an unopened >flower bud and you will understand the name.> Thank you for the responses! Yes, I was wondering where the name could have come from, and then I noticed several unopened flowers and it was clear! The bees seem to really like this flower; perhaps it's 'cause theres not much else around, altho' the willows are thick with bloom now as well. Nice to know what flowers the bees are taking to, makes things even more interesting. Thanks again J. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 4 May 1996 15:03:01 -0300 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Eunice D. Wonnacott" Subject: Re: Preferred Poison. >> Ants, ants, ants. {SNIP} what has worked for you,etc..? > > >Amdro. > >Logan > Small dishes of powdered Borax seem to attract ants, and kill them. works well in small quantities in our area. Used in house, kitchen, etc. Keep away from pets (both children and others)> Not expensive either. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 5 May 1996 11:44:54 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "David. E. Goble" Subject: Re: Kangaroo Island >Can anyone give me information on an Email adress for the bee lab on Kangaroo >Island. > >Thanking you in advance > >Dean Breaux > Hi Dean; Our Email address is: goble@eastend.com.au Or as a last resort; degob1@mugc.cc.monash.ed.au And our Web page URL is: http://www.eastend.com.au/~goble There may have been problems in the last few days, as our ISP's server was down for a while. Iam sorry for any problems this may have caused. Thank you to Robert Rice, for replying, in my place. Thanks from : goble@eastend.com.au http://www.eastend.com.au/~goble degob1@mugc.cc.monash.ed.au ( David Goble ) American Beach Kangaroo Island South Australia ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 4 May 1996 21:14:57 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Cliff De Witt <"cde049@airmail.net"@airmail.net> Organization: Texas Heritage Carfts Subject: Re: Preferred Poison. I don't know how Ya'll take care of ants but here in Texas I set out a plastic tub put some cinderblocks in the tub then set my hives on the blocks and fill the tub with water. No ants in the hives. -- 1> ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 5 May 1996 20:24:14 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ted Wout <102336.711@CompuServe.COM> Subject: Lost Swarm Today I lost my first swarm. I had successfully overwintered one hive and it was doing great until today. While we were at church the hive swarmed and landed on a neighbors tree. While we were gone, my neighbor had tried to get our attention by coming over and blowing their car horn. They were afraid to get out of the car. We weren't home so they weren't successful. By the time we got home, they were gone! They could have only been on the tree for about 1-1.5 hours max. Do bees alight on a tree and then go to their new home that quickly? I was under the impression that they stayed at their intermediate location much longer than that. I'm hoping they haven't taken up residence in another neighbor's house. That would make things even worse than they are now. They hive they were in is at about half strength and many of them are drones. I found some queen cells and they are still uncapped so I'm hoping we'll have a new queen soon. I guess you can't catch them all. Ted Wout Red Oak, TX 2nd year beekeeper, 8 hives ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 5 May 1996 20:24:18 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ted Wout <102336.711@CompuServe.COM> Subject: Hived Swarms that Abscond A beekeeper friend, who is largely responsible for getting me into this hobby, has had something happen to him this year that has only happened to him once before. In eight years of beekeeping he has had only one swarm that he has hived abscond a few days later. This year he has had three hived swarms abscond within a few days of hiving. He's doing something different this year and I'm wondering if it's the cause. He has a hive body that was drawn and filled with honey in an established hive last year. He has attempted to use this body with drawn comb to hive his swarms and they've absconded. Has anyone tried this before? Is this a bad idea? Would it be better to use the newly hived bee's propensity to build comb and not try to give them drawn comb? Would it be better to give them one frame of drawn comb so the queen can start laying and let them draw out the other nine? Ted Wout Red Oak, TX 2nd year beekeeper, 8 hives ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 5 May 1996 18:39:30 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Kevin & Ann Christensen Subject: Help Wanted A progressive beekeeper friend of mine from Northeast Alberta Canada is looking for help this season. To inquire call: Dave Tharle (403) 826-6013 ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 5 May 1996 20:47:02 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Vince Coppola Subject: Re: Hived Swarms that Abscond In-Reply-To: <960506002418_102336.711_HHQ51-3@CompuServe.COM> On Sun, 5 May 1996, Ted Wout wrote: > A beekeeper friend, who is largely responsible for getting me into this > hobby, has had something happen to him this year that has only happened > to him once before. In eight years of beekeeping he has had only one > swarm that he has hived abscond a few days later. This year he has had > three hived swarms abscond within a few days of hiving. > Usualy they do not abscond when hived with drawn comb and honey. But I have noticed this happens some years. When this is a problem its common practice to hive the swarm as usual and give the swarm a comb of open brood from one of your colonies. This will hold them most of the time. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 5 May 1996 21:04:33 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: BusyKnight Subject: Re: Hived Swarms that Abscond >he has had only one >swarm that he has hived abscond a few days later. The best way to stop this is to give the newly captured swarm a frame of larva. The bees will not leave a hive with uncaped brood. The old comb is not the cause to the problem. BusyKnight Dallas, TX busykngt@airmail.net ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 5 May 1996 20:07:25 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Hunahpu Matamoros Subject: Rearranging query All This is my second year with one hive(I'll be setting up one more in a few weeks) and I was a little worried about them because we'd had such a poor spring here(Pacific Northwest, rain, cool, rain, cool, etc). Last Sunday a more experienced neighbor came over to give me a hand and started to take my boxes apart. He scolded me for my error of wintering them with 2 deeps and one shallow with the excluder on top(I'd left one more half-filled shallow on TOP of the excluder and added another shallow a few weeks ago) and, after setting aside the two top shallow supers began to disassemble the shallow frames below the excluder(all this in cloudy 50 degree weather---the bees were SOME upset!) After removing 5 frames (full of honey and covered with bees) and exposing a bunch of hatching full growth larvae wich appeared to have been built onto the bottom of the frames, I finally prevailed on him to let well enough alone and he replaced one frame of honey(leaving a large hole in that shallow super)and we put it all back together. He brushed the bees off the 4 combs of honey(mostly capped but quite a bit uncapped) onto the hive entrance(where they quickly reentered the hive) and I took those into the house. I noticed, while the hive was open, several large cells along the bottom of 2 of the frames we removed and one that we did not(so there may've been even more in the 3 frames we couldn't see(not to mention the 20 deep BC frames below it). I assume these to've been Q-cells(how does one differentiate from Drones?)and am wondering at their production. Why there? Why now? So my questions are: 1)Since the bees have had a week to settle down now, should I just leave well enough alone until my new Queen arrives(2-3 wks)?...or shall I open 'er up and replace those removed frames with fresh foundation?...or should I remove a top super or two in hopes they'll force the Queen down so I can remove this badly placed shallow or? 2)My girls(Buckfast)seem to be healthy and numerous but I wouldn't like to loose them. The last few days have been sunny but STILL cool(about 58)BUT they seem to be working on a flow(there are blossoms EVERYWHERE hereabouts). Does the fact that I saw SOME brood bode well for their continuing stability? 3)Its been an unusually cool spring here and I've been hesitant to disturb them for inspection. Should I continue this cautious approach or do I NEED to find out if I have brood in the deeps? 4)I've purchased a pollen trap but there are no directions and the fellow I purchased it from couldn't remember how to install it. My concern is that, no matter how I place it, it is going to be somewhat open at the back(to the north)which doesn't seem right to me. 5)I'd like to have the hive inspected by someone who knows what they're doing(Whatcom County, WA.) and would appreciate it if someone can supply an e-mail address for the powers that be. ...boulder ############################################################################ ####### >>God may forgive you for your sins but your nervous system won't!---OLD MAXIM ############################################################################ ####### ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 May 1996 08:03:26 CST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Vladimir Ptacek Subject: Re: CO2 + bee anaesthetics Friends, As far as we know from the bumble bee managment CO2 narcosis does affect the physiology of bumble bee queens. As many honey bee queen producers know the same goes for honey bee queens. Both, the unfertilized ones and fertilized instrumentally start eggs laying after the treatment. I have read somewhere, but don't have the source, now, that honey bee workers "got older" after they were treated with CO2. Their physiological development was accelerated. Based on my experience with bee keeping I am convinced that CO2 has an important role in developing the population of so called winter bees (I have done no research in this field). Nevertheless, in insects any kind of narcosis is the CO2 narcoses in certain degree, too, since the organism stops its respiration movements and the CO2 can not be removed from tissues by the tracheal system. Happy days with bees, Vladimir Ptacek ---------------------------------------------------------------- Fac. Sci., Dept. Anim. Physiol. E.mail: ptacek@sci.muni.cz Masaryk University phone: .42/5/41129 562 611 37 Brno, Czech Republic fax: .42/5/41211 214 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 May 1996 09:48:25 GMT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Steve Pearce Subject: Re: bee anaesthetics Hi Allen, thanks for the reply, My question was concerned with the whole range of behaviour of the colony.This may manifest itself as inability to forage effectivley due to loss of ability to orientate to the colony, or increaced defensive behavior. This was initiated by the findings that Drosophila melanogaster after ether treatment seem to have problems with orientaton. In "Drosophila a laboratory handbook" Michael Ashburner 1989 Cold spring Harbor. He mentions that even after brief treatment with ether flies have shown:- (and I quote) a dramatic long term effect..on the searching behavior of the flies. Flies were tracked in a circular arena, in the center of which was a banana odor. Control flies, congregrated around the source of the aroma. Flies that had been briefly etherised once, 4 days before the experiment, showed a very different behaviour:They had a strong aversion to the center of the arena and hugged the walls. This ether-induced "centrophobism" is apparrently permanent. My question was really to do with the effects of chemical solvent agents on the behaviour of bees in particular ether and chloroform on foraging ability. Luckily the problems I was facing, I have now overcome, but it seems that carbon dioxide is the method of choice over these solvent anaesthetics. We have a system here in my laboratory for anaethesising Drosophila, but the cylinders are huge. I have however devised a portable dry-ice driven equipment, which runs on hot water (and bubbles also through hot water to warm the gas up so that the bees don't get chilled. This is reserved for use on bees where on lifting the cover it is like running into a hailstorm of bees. I find it difficult to find queens when experiencing intense pain! Steve Pearce Dept of Biochemistry University of Dundee ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 May 1996 08:22:00 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ted Fischer Subject: Re: Lost swarm REGARDING RE>Lost swarm Ted Wout writes: "Today I lost my first swarm. I had successfully overwintered one hive and it was doing great until today. While we were at church the hive swarmed and landed on a neighbors tree. While we were gone, my neighbor had tried to get our attention by coming over and blowing their car horn. They were afraid to get out of the car. We weren't home so they weren't successful. By the time we got home, they were gone! They could have only been on the tree for about 1-1.5 hours max. Do bees alight on a tree and then go to their new home that quickly? I was under the impression that they stayed at their intermediate location much longer than that. I'm hoping they haven't taken up residence in another neighbor's house. That would make things even worse than they are now. They hive they were in is at about half strength and many of them are drones. I found some queen cells and they are still uncapped so I'm hoping we'll have a new queen soon. I guess you can't catch them all." Depending upon local conditions, it is not at all unusual for bees to sit for such a short time in their intermediate location. I remember when I was a boy, in the '50's in Wisconsin, every Sunday in May and June we would hurry home from church as soon as possible, then rush out to the beeyard to look for hanging swarms. My grandfather had 125 colonies, and used swarming as his means of increase. (In retrospect, that surely was a lot of work and bother, compared with the ease of making timely splits.) We got most of them, I imagine, but we often rushed around to get set up to shake down a swarm, just to have the whole thing explode into the air with a roar and take off for parts unknown. What a disappointment! Ted Fischer ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 May 1996 09:05:20 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ted Fischer Subject: Re: Rearranging query REGARDING RE> Rearranging query Regarding the following unsigned post: "This is my second year with one hive(I'll be setting up one more in a few weeks) and I was a little worried about them because we'd had such a poor spring here(Pacific Northwest, rain, cool, rain, cool, etc). Last Sunday a more experienced neighbor came over to give me a hand and started to take my boxes apart. He scolded me for my error of wintering them with 2 deeps and one shallow with the excluder on top(I'd left one more half-filled shallow on TOP of the excluder and added another shallow a few weeks ago) and, after setting aside the two top shallow supers began to disassemble the shallow frames below the excluder(all this in cloudy 50 degree weather---the bees were SOME upset!) After removing 5 frames (full of honey and covered with bees) and exposing a bunch of hatching full growth larvae wich appeared to have been built onto the bottom of the frames, I finally prevailed on him to let well enough alone and he replaced one frame of honey(leaving a large hole in that shallow super)and we put it all back together. He brushed the bees off the 4 combs of honey(mostly capped but quite a bit uncapped) onto the hive entrance(where they quickly reentered the hive) and I took those into the house. I noticed, while the hive was open, several large cells along the bottom of 2 of the frames we removed and one that we did not(so there may've been even more in the 3 frames we couldn't see(not to mention the 20 deep BC frames below it). I assume these to've been Q-cells(how does one differentiate from Drones?)and am wondering at their production. Why there? Why now? So my questions are: 1)Since the bees have had a week to settle down now, should I just leave well enough alone until my new Queen arrives(2-3 wks)?...or shall I open 'er up and replace those removed frames with fresh foundation?...or should I remove a top super or two in hopes they'll force the Queen down so I can remove this badly placed shallow or? 2)My girls(Buckfast)seem to be healthy and numerous but I wouldn't like to loose them. The last few days have been sunny but STILL cool(about 58)BUT they seem to be working on a flow(there are blossoms EVERYWHERE hereabouts). Does the fact that I saw SOME brood bode well for their continuing stability? 3)Its been an unusually cool spring here and I've been hesitant to disturb them for inspection. Should I continue this cautious approach or do I NEED to find out if I have brood in the deeps? 4)I've purchased a pollen trap but there are no directions and the fellow I purchased it from couldn't remember how to install it. My concern is that, no matter how I place it, it is going to be somewhat open at the back(to the north)which doesn't seem right to me. 5)I'd like to have the hive inspected by someone who knows what they're doing(Whatcom County, WA.) and would appreciate it if someone can supply an e-mail address for the powers that be." I think that it would be very important for you to be sure whether you have queen cells or not. The developing brood opened between the shallow and deep chamber is very likely drone brood. This is a common placement for such brood, and I always inspect these opened cells for varroa - it is easy to see the mites here and you don't need any specialized equipment or procedure. Now, queen cells differ from even the largest drone cells in that they are vertical, not horizontal, and stand out very obviously from the rest of the comb. I didn't read that you mentioned the orientation of the large cells. If they are queen cells, you need to immediately go through the entire hive, not missing a frame, to find every such cell. Then you have a decision to make - whether to split the hive into two or more splits (my recommendation) each with a frame containing one or two queen cells, or to cut every one of them out to delay the inevitable swarming for a while so that you can give room to the hive until your new queen arrives. Then you can split the hive and provide the queenless half with the new queen and most of the sealed brood. The part with the original queen will likely not swarm after that if you give them plenty of room. So much for the unsolicited advice. Now as to your questions: 1) If the queen is in the shallow super, and you want to use that one for honey storage, you need to find the queen if she's in the super, pick her off and put her back downstairs, replace the excluder and put the emerging brood on top. If there is drone brood, you need to put an entrance above the excluder for the drones to get out. Otherwise they will try to get through the excluder, get stuck and die. 2) Yes, if you saw brood in the third chamber, you have a healthy family of bees coming along. My only concern, as mentioned above, is that your hive might be on the road to swarming. 3) It is absolutely necessary to do a spring inspection of the brood, again for the reasons mentioned above as well as to check for healthy brood, good brood patterns, etc. Any time the temperature gets into the 50's or above you can do this. Be careful not to expose sealed brood to chilly air for more that a half minute or so, but when put back in the chamber the bees will cover and protect it. 4) Although it is inconvenient (for you) to have bees entering the hive at different places, this doesn't bother the bees a bit. Hope this helps. Good luck. Ted Fischer ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 May 1996 08:48:58 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: John Taylor Subject: Wet Bees . . . Tornado activity in the area, heavy rains and winds of 40 MPH with gusts to 80 MPH at the airport have brought another new experience to this fledgling beekeeper. A gut feeling suggested I go out and check my bees a couple hours after the worst of the storm. When I got out to the property, I found that the high winds had bent my purple martin house/pole to the ground. I could also see the heavy plastic hive cover and inner covers laying on the ground about 30 feet from the hive. Why the inner cover isn't in the next county, I have no idea. Needless to say, the bees were soaked. I removed an outer frame that hasn't been worked yet and space the other frames out a bit to allow the bees a little more ventilation and a chance to dry out. I plan to put the removed frame back in later today (weather allowing) or tomorrow. Are there any particular problems I can look forward to as a result of my bees beeing exposed to wind, rain and getting a good soaking? BTW, there are now two big bricks on top my hive cover. Better late than never, I guess. Other questions: Out of curiosity, how many bees to the pound? I received 3 pounds of bees as a starter and am curious as to approximately how many bees that would have been. I've read that a strong hive will have up 30,000 little gals. John Taylor LifeBeat Air Medical http://www.cris.com/~Johntrn1/index.shtml When in danger, or in doubt, run in circles, scream and shout! ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 May 1996 09:17:10 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Joel Govostes Subject: Re: Wet Bees . . . There are about 3500 bees to the pound, so they say. Bees are remarkable at being able to withstand wet weather. They cluster up so that the rain washes away; hopefully not too many got blown around. They should dry out o.k. especially as you've given them some space for air and made sure they won't lose their roof again. The conditions might set them back a few days, but they are likely to survive fine. I've found colonies in the spring after cold wet wind storms where the covers are off, smashed in the trees several feet away and the bees hunkered down in a tight cluster. I covered them back up and to my suprise they seemed no worse off a week later. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 May 1996 10:50:38 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jim Moore DTN276-9448 ogo1/e17 508-496-9448 Subject: Re: Wax on queen cage - "too many" drones? Eariler I asked for advice about re-inspecting a queen cage that had alot of wax on it. I had forgotten to check the queens condition before installing. I couldn't stand not knowing so the next day I opened the hive and took out the queen cage and scraped off the wax. I go a glimpse of the queen, she seemed okay, and quickly put everything back and close the hive. Both hives are equally active. I've been watching them closely and they are collecting pollen. I intend to retrieve the queen cages and do a quick inspection in the next day or two depending on the weather so I can't comment yet on wether the queens have both been accepted. What I have noticed about the waxed-queen hive (hive 2) is that there are more drones coming and going. Hive 1 might have 2 or 3 dones maximum at the entrance while hive 2 has had 8 or 9. This is around 1 PM on a sunny day with the temperature in the high 60's. The approximate numbers of bees at the entrance in each case was 30-35. A long setup for my question. Could a high proportion of drones in a package contribute to the behaviour of waxing the queen cage? Also, would excessive drones in a package contribute to queen rejection? Lastly, how many drones is too many in a 3 lb. package and how dies one tell? I'll post the results of my inspection for those who are curious. Thank you to those who provided advice. Jim Moore ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 May 1996 08:13:26 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Roy Nettlebeck Subject: Re: Rearranging query In-Reply-To: On Mon, 6 May 1996, Ted Fischer wrote: > REGARDING RE> Rearranging query > > Regarding the following unsigned post: > "This is my second year with one hive(I'll be setting up one more in a few > weeks) and I was a little worried about them because we'd had such a poor > spring here(Pacific Northwest, rain, cool, rain, cool, etc > 5)I'd like to have the hive inspected by someone who knows what they're > doing(Whatcom County, WA.) and would appreciate it if someone can supply an > e-mail address for the powers that be." Hi Jim Boch, the States Apiariest will be back in Olympia in two weeks.He is setting up his computer to get on line with us.He wont be in the office. He will be putting out a complete list of beekeeping organizations in Washington state when he gets on line. Ted put out some good info and it is hard to address questions without looking at the bees.Some things are straight forward and others are very complex. When we can get you linned up with with Jim, then he can help and get you help from some one that he knows in your area. If I know who posted the note , I can put you on the Washington list that I have started. We really need a good list of names of state beekeepers. Jim has a big list so that will help.We have a great number of researchers , or I should say Great researchers on this list. The brood nest needs balance.The bees know what is in balance. Different stages of larva and brood , plus young bees and a place for the queen to lay.If you move one frame in the brood nest you change things and then the bees try to blend in your change to what they want in the brood nest. Everything is what they want, not what we want.We do tricks to try to fool them , by moving brood around to give them more room.But we always have to know what they need to raise larva , can they keep them warm and have pollen and honey to feed them.Know the rules and follow them and you will be ok most of the time.Bees are changing a little do to the mites and the stress that they are going through.We need to learn more about the behavior changes that the mite has imposed on our bees.Some things look simple , but they are not.The honeybee has been around for a very long time. It is very complex , which makes it able to change to its inviornment in most cases.The reason I belive that genetics will solve the mite problem , is founded on the fact that bees do exist that can defend themselves against the tm and Varroa. We just need to speed the process up , faster than nature would if we stayed out of it. Read Read Read and watch your bees , they will tell you what to do when you get some understanding of there needs. Until then , keep asking questions. I'm asking questions all the time and I have been doing this for over 30 years. Best Regards Ror ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 May 1996 12:38:14 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Maynard R. Thompson" Subject: Re: Hived Swarms that Abscond In-Reply-To: On Sun, 5 May 1996, BusyKnight wrote: > >he has had only one > >swarm that he has hived abscond a few days later. > The best way to stop this is to give the newly > captured swarm a frame of larva. The bees will > not leave a hive with uncaped brood. The old > comb is not the cause to the problem. > > BusyKnight > Dallas, TX > busykngt@airmail.net > How about a little insurance, ---- put a queen excluder on the bottom board or cut one up and place across the front entrance, at least this could keep the old gal in place for a day or two. Maynard mthompso@mail.coin.missouri.edu ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 May 1996 14:26:30 -0400 Reply-To: Mason Harris Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Mason Harris Subject: Stingers Simple question. Does anyone have any ideas on why queens develop with a barbless stinger and workers have barbed stingers? Mason D. Harris (\ Department of Audiology {|||8- San Mateo County Office of Education (/ smharris@ed.co.sanmateo.ca.us ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 May 1996 15:43:25 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: David Eyre Subject: Re: Queens Guard Cages. A few days ago a message was posted to the BEE-L from beekeeper@worldnet.com requesting info on Queens Guard Cages. We sent the info to you, and got it straight back 'user unknown' If you still require the info would you e-mail me direct, then we can start again. Sorry to burden the list, there is no alternative. **************************************************** * David Eyre 9 Progress Drive, Unit 2, * * The Beeworks, Orillia, Ontario, L3V 6H1. * * beeworks@muskoka.net 705-326-7171 * * http://www.muskoka.net/~beeworks * * Agents for: E H Thorne & B J Sherriff UK. * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 May 1996 21:51:40 +0200 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Rudolf E. Bahr" Subject: Re: Stingers Comments: To: Mason Harris In-Reply-To: Just the other day I was told by an entomologist that honeybee queens had 2 barbs on every of her stinger bristles. NISI APES FINIS On Mon, 6 May 1996, Mason Harris wrote: > Simple question. > > > Does anyone have any ideas on why queens develop with a barbless stinger and > workers have barbed stingers? > > > > Mason D. Harris (\ > Department of Audiology {|||8- > San Mateo County Office of Education (/ > smharris@ed.co.sanmateo.ca.us > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 May 1996 18:13:43 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Brian G. Merrill" Subject: long awaited spring Comments: To: Steve Pearce Hello all, It seems that maybe spring has finally arrived here in western New York State. It's still mighty wet but I've been into all my yards at least once except for one. (That swale hole was always dry before this!) The final tally on winter loss for me is 82%. Dandelions are showing in some areas but at home, the wind from Lake Erie keeps the air cold and the dandelion greens are barely showing. This will likely be one of those years when everything blossoms at the same time in the spring; soft maple is still coming on while the hard maple is budded; everything is just waiting for more than two consecutive warm days. Brian G. Merrill bmerrill@ns.moran.com 61 Calumet St. Depew, NY 14043 USA ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 May 1996 18:38:09 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: James Subject: combining hives Hi everyone. I have a quetion for the more experienced beekeepers out there. My three hives made it through a rough winter! However, one of them appears to be weak. Two have bees, brood etc... in both hive bodies and look quite strong. The first one however, has bees in only 1 box, the top super being almost completely empty. ( there is plenty of honey in all the hives) I gave it a frame of capped brood last friday to give it a boost. There is capped and uncapped brood in the weak hive and I spotted the queen and she seems to be healthy ( good wings...) My question is: should I just leave the weak hive alone, let it nurse itself back to normal strength? or should I combine it with one of the other hives and create one really strong hive? I've been reading on the list lately about 2-queen systems and maybe this would be one way to go. I have a couple of ross round supers so I could try my hand at comb production if I do decide to try the 2-queen system. Another question: With the 2-queen hive, when should I put this thing together? The dandelions are just barely starting here in Central NY so should I wait until a good flow or do it now and give the hive a chance to get used to two queens? Thanks for any advice/info. James Jacobs ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 May 1996 19:24:58 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: BusyKnight Subject: When so swarm queens leave? A question directed at the scientific community: Knowing that queens who are preparing to swarm can and offen do leave the old colony behind prior to there being an adult, mated queen left in the colony; my question is this: Has anyone done any research as to timing of such behavior? (i.e., is there a particuliar time at which the swarming queen decides its okay to now leave with the swarm even though there may not be an emerged queen to take over the hive) If someone has done this as a research project, I'd like to know of your results. Sincerely, BK BusyKnight Dallas, TX busykngt@airmail.net ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 May 1996 22:28:58 -0300 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Stan Sandler Subject: Re: NEED BEANs Save the BEES >BEANS, beans the musical fruit comes in time of need to the >keepers of bees! Or is it all just passing gas? I gather from the ridicule that you poured out on the subject of neem research and honeybees, that you do not have much use for the researchers or their methods, Andy. For all I know about the subject, and that is next to nothing, you could be perfectly correct. However, my curiosity was aroused, and I wanted to get beyond the ridicule to obtain some facts about what the experiments involved and what the results were. However, when I send an e-mail to the address that was given: >Research Branch >Agriculture and Agri-Food Canada >P.O. Box 29 >Beaverlodge, Alberta >T0H 0C0 > >Tel. (403) 354-2212 >Fax (403) 354-8171 >EM OTTB::EM380MAIL >Internet EM380MAIL@ABRSBL.AGR.CA ---Here is where I mailed to > >Apiculture pathology T.P. Liu, Ph.D. >Apiculture (seconded out) T.I. Szabo, Ph.D. I got a return message (from Beaver Lodge, so that much was correct) saying that there is no such mail address. Does anyone know who is actually doing experiments on bees using neem and what their address is? It is a little bit unclear in your post whether these are the people doing the research. I don't think it was your intention to encourage people to spend time investigating this! :-) Have a nice day Stan > > > The Northern Agriculture Research Centre (NARC) improves production > systems for crops, honey bees, and other pollinating insects adapted > to environmental conditions in northwestern Canada. It also develops > technology for managing the soil, water, and climatic resources of the > region, for a productive and sustainable agricultural industry. The > centre has breeding programs in canola, wheat, and honey bees. Our > major crops are > * cereal grains > * pulse crops > * forage seed production > * oilseeds. > > The Fort Vermilion field site develops crop management systems for > oilseeds, cereals, and pulse crops. > > Achievements > > l l This l l looks l l real l l good l l ..... > > Controlling chalkbrood disease of honeybees It's an environmentalist's > dream: a natural pesticide found in the seeds of the neem, one of the > most common trees in India and Burma. Neem extract controls diseases > and pests of crops, yet leaves pollinating insects and mammals > unharmed. Neem extract was tested and results showed that treated > colonies had 350% less chalkbrood and 100% less nosema than control > colonies. Treated colonies also collected 3.5 times more pollen and > produced 1.5 times more honey. > >----------------------------------OLd Drone Comments-------------------- >The Honey Producer in me says: > >*WOW 1 and 1/2 more honey, up the mites, we all should be feeding > this chemical and get the increase in honey production, have cleaner > bees, and any residue in the honey will cure MS along with a few > bee stings in the right places.........after all its a natural poison. > >AND The farmer Almond grower who pays me says: > >**HOT DOG, up the mites, up the honey, up the bee keepers, collecting > 3.5x the pollen, HOT DOG! How much of this stuff do you need.. >_________________________end of comment------------------------------- > > Biological control of tracheal mites in the honey bee Breeding honey > bees that are resistant to tracheal mites is the most desirable > approach to reducing the damage caused by infestations of this pest. > Biological control of tracheal mite infestation may be another > attractive alternative. A DNA virus has been found in tracheal mites > taken from honey bees. When this virus was introduced into > mite-infected colonies, the infestation level decreased from 23.7% to > 5.2% within 2 months. > >-------------------------More added------------------------------- > >** I must add to this that without looking at what exactly happened > in the controls in this piece of work one must remember that the > tracheal mites are infamous for spontaneous remission in numbers > of mites making it very hard to derive reliable information or > control stratagems. It may be that this virus is present and is > naturally triggered by some environmental input that may or may > not be controlled. >-------------------------end of off the wall comments-------------- > > NARC has a staff of 50 full-time equivalents, with 16 in the > professional categories. The center controls 390 ha of land at two > sites and rents about 35 ha of land a year for research. In addition, > NARC manages the Fort Vermilion field site, which owns 187 ha of land > and rents about 3 ha of land for research. Operation is on a growing > season basis only. > > NARC manages a budget of $3.3 million. It has a 12-person advisory > committee consisting of farmers and provincial and university leaders. > The centre supplements its resources by receiving funds from outside > agencies, including the provinces, producer groups, and agri-business. > > Research Publications > > Fairey, D.T. 1993. Pollination of Trifolium hybridum by Megachile > rotundata. J. Appl. Seed Prod. 11:34-38. > > Fairey, D.T. 1993. Pollination and seed set in herbage species: a > review of limiting factors. J. Appl. Seed Prod. 11:6-12. > > Fairey, D.T.; Lefkovitch, L.P. 1993. Bombus and other bee pollinators > in Trifolium hybridum seed fields. J. Appl. Seed Prod. 11:87~-89. > > Fairey, D.T.; Lefkovitch, L.P. 1993. Arrangement of new and used > nesting materials in leafcutting bee, Megachile rotundata (F.), > shelters to maximize cell production. J. Appl. Entomol. 115:62-65. > > Fairey, D.T.; Lefkovitch, L.P. 1994. Collection of leaf pieces by > Megachile rotundata: proportion used in nesting. Bee Sci. 3(2):79-85. > > Fairey, N.A.; Lefkovitch, L.P. 1994. Herbage production as influenced > by stand arrangement, nitrogen fertility and supplemental water. Can. > J. Plant Sci. 74:115-120. > > Grant, G.A.; Nelson, D.L.; Olsen, P.E.; Rice, W.A. 1993. The ~ Elisa" > detection of tracheal mites in whole honey bee samples. Am. Bee J. > 133:652-655. > > Li, M.; Nelson, D.L.; Sporns, P. 1993. Determination of menthol in > honey by gas chromatography. J. AOAC Int. 76(6):1289-1295. > > Liu, T.P.; Chu, L.T.Y.; Sporns, P. 1993. Formic acid residues in honey > in relation to application rate and timing of formic acid for control > of tracheal mites, Acarapis woodi (Rennie). Am. Bee J. 133:71-721. > > Liu, T.P.; McRory, D. 1994. The use of gamma radiation from Cobalt-60 > in a commercial facility in Ontario to disinfect honey bee equipment. > 1. American foulbrood disease. Am. Bee J. 134:203-206. > > Liu, T.P.; Nasr, M.E. 1993. Preventive treatment of tracheal mites, > Acarapis woodi (Rennie) with vegetable oil extender patties in the > honeybee, Apis mellifera L. colonies. Am. Bee J. 134:873~-875. > > Mills, P.F. 1994. The agricultural potential of northwestern Canada > and Alaska and the impact of climatic change. Arctic 47(2):115-123. > > Nelson, D.; Sporns, P.; Kristiansen, P.; Mills, P. 1993. Effectiveness > and residue levels of 3 methods of menthol application to honey bee > colonies for the control of tracheal mites. Apidologie 24:549-556. > > Szabo, T.I. 1993. Brood rearing in outdoor wintered honey bee > colonies. Am. Bee J. 133(8):579-580. > > Szabo, T.I. 1993. Length of life of queens in honey bee colonies. Am. > Bee J. 133(10):723-724. > > Szabo, T.I. 1993. Selective breeding of honey bees for resistanct to > Varroa jacobsoni. Am. Bee J. 133:868; Can. Beekeep. 17(10):222. > >*Ripped off the Agriculture and Agri-Food Canada web page, edited to > save band width. > ttul OLd Drone > >(c) Permission is granted to freely copy this document >in any form, or to print for any use. > >(w)Opinions are not necessarily facts. Use at own risk. >Not a invitation to use or an endorsement of any product >legal or not legal. >--- > ~ QMPro 1.53 ~ What is not good for the swarm is not good for the bee! > > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 May 1996 01:02:00 GMT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Andy Nachbaur Organization: WILD BEE'S BBS (209) 826-8107 LOS BANOS, CA Subject: Stingers MH>From: Mason Harris >Date: Mon, 6 May 1996 14:26:30 -0400 >Subject: Stingers MH>Simple question. MH> Does anyone have any ideas on why queens develop with a barbless stinger an >workers have barbed stingers? Hi Mason, Have no idea other then it's that way to insure they are not killed or damaged when defending themselves for other queens or what ever. God engineered our beloved honeybees and now some other's are working to undo that by having workers with split tails, sounds more like the devil's work more then bee science to me. The queens can sting, in working with queens normally late in the day after a "catcher" has handled many queens and maybe killed a few bad or nature queens it is not uncommon to get stung by a queen. I have been stung a few times in the fingers when pushing them through those smaller and smaller holes in queen cages. At least as I get older they seem to be getting smaller. Another time after a 3 o'clock brake for a cool one with a queen rearing friend who on the last round lets his baby nuc's rear a nature queen and because it was an unusual early summer with cooler then normal temperatures he got a very good take on mated queens. We were catching them out for the fun of it and he had to leave to get more cages. I was bored and kept on catching and just stored the queens in my mouth, not unusual, or maybe not the norm, anyway after I got quite a few in my mouth they got to fighting between themselves and I got stung several times inside the lips and on the gums. Just about the time I was going to spit them out my buddy returned with the cages. Yes, it did hurt a little but I survived without injuring any queens and I did not swallow any of them or do that trick any more that day. ttul Andy- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 May 1996 23:09:33 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: SHolisky Subject: Re: Wet Bees . . . John Taylor wrote: Are there any particular problems I can look forward to as a result of my bees beeing exposed to wind, rain and getting a good soaking? ---- Not in what I have seen. In a couple of "good days" they won't be cranky. Good luck - Scott ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 May 1996 22:20:43 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Jeffrey R. Tooker" Subject: NEED BEANS Stan Standler and all: Just checked my mail before going to bed, 5A.M. comes early. The only research I could find with neem and varroa is being done by: Adony Melathopoulos Or Eric Mussen at Davis California. Eric Mussen Will post a complete list of findings of neem net search tommorrow. Later Jeffrey 33600 Navion Paynes Creek Ca. 96075 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 May 1996 20:08:53 +1200 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Richard Hatfield Subject: Re: Plastic frame usage I am going to buy more frames this year. My questions are: 1. What methods did you use to coax them onto the frames? 2. Would you recommend them over traditional frames? 3. Do you find them a cost effective alternative to traditional frames? 4. Have you had any experience in using them in a solar wax extractor - can they stand the heat? Thanks Richard Richard Hatfield Home: Hatfielr@netlink.co.nz Wellington, New Zealand Part time Bee-keeper, mainly Project Manager ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 May 1996 06:34:12 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: John Taylor Subject: Re: Wet Bees . . . At 11:09 PM 5/6/96 -0500, you wrote: >John Taylor wrote: > >>Are there any particular problems I can look forward to as a result of >>my bees beeing exposed to wind, rain and getting a good soaking? > >Not in what I have seen. In a couple of "good days" they won't be >cranky. > >Good luck - Scott I appreciate the help. I've also had a couple of private e-mail messages that basically told me I did the right thing. I may get the hang of this beekeeping stuff yet! As far as beeing cranky goes . . . I've been pleasantly surprised by my bees. The day I installed my bees, they were flying and landing all over me. I also had cologne on. Since that day I've been careful not to wear cologne and the bees hardle notice me. We've had a lot of cool, cloudy, wet weather in Southeast Missouri lately. Most of the days I've checked the hive its been overcast and not just exactly real warm. The bees have been extremely gentle - no matter what the weather is like or what has happened to them. The day they got soaked and I removed the frame, I actually got brave enough to try something I'd just been thinking about - handle them without gloves. Rather than being cranky, they seemed subdued with being wet. I've not been stung yet and the girls just don't really act like they want to sting me. What I'm trying to get around to are questions - are my Italian bees unusually gentle? Have I just lucked out and started handling them in a manner that doesn't bother them? Or, am I soon going to have a larger population, that is busier flying once all the comb is drawn out and will be more likely to sting? Thanks to all. John Taylor LifeBeat Air Medical http://www.cris.com/~Johntrn1/index.shtml When in danger, or in doubt, run in circles, scream and shout! ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 May 1996 08:48:33 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ted Fischer Subject: Re: Wet bees... REGARDING RE>Wet bees... John Taylorwrote: "The bees have been extremely gentle - no matter what the weather is like or what has happened to them. The day they got soaked and I removed the frame, I actually got brave enough to try something I'd just been thinking about - handle them without gloves. Rather than being cranky, they seemed subdued with being wet. I've not been stung yet and the girls just don't really act like they want to sting me. What I'm trying to get around to are questions - are my Italian bees unusually gentle? Have I just lucked out and started handling them in a manner that doesn't bother them? Or, am I soon going to have a larger population, that is busier flying once all the comb is drawn out and will be more likely to sting?" Just a couple observations. For years I have used Italian bees and love their gentleness. I occasionally have considered getting other types, but when I actually make the decision, it's always for the Italians. The bees are, in my experience, gentlest when the colony is small. I think you have discovered one of the real joys of beekeeping when you can handle the bees with bare hands. It teaches you to manipulate the frames very gently and cautiously, and if you have the right temperament of bees, they will just sit there and look at you. If you use a minimum of smoke, when you pick up the frame you may observe the bee's dances and even the queen backing into a cell to lay an egg! Occasionally several bees might fly up and bump into your hand, but slow and deliberate motions usually result in them settling right down again. I used to use bee gloves all the time to protect against stings, but now I use them mostly in hot weather in the summer to protect my hands from propolis sticking all over. I tried using leather work gloves, but I don't like bees getting into the open wrists of those gloves. (Another personal observation- don't use cloth work gloves. They seem to stimulate the bees to sting, and they will stitch the gloves right to your hands!) ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 May 1996 08:38:53 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ray Lackey Subject: combining hives/Central NY beekeepers ? club? Jim, it sounds like your hive is a slow starter. Some queens/lines take a long time to get started in the spring. In some areas, this is beneficial because there is nothing for them to gather anyway. If you have early nectar flow in your area, requeen as soon as possible. If you have mainly summer flow, you may want to let her go and track the hive to see how they go. On long Island, our honey flow is done by July 4. Where I grew up in Western PA, they like slow starters. They don't use up reserves early before a continuous supply of nectar and pollen is available but then they burst in time for the summer flow. I started a friend in Richfield Springs, near Utica, into beekeeping this year. Any one, or any clubs, operating in that area. Six hours drive, one way, is kind of long to provide tutoring and quick help. He is anxious to learn. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ + Raymond J. Lackey, EAS Master Beekeeper, VP LIBA + + Twelve years exper with 25 colonies on Long Island, NY+ + INTERNET: lackeyr@hazeltine.com + + Mail: 1260 Walnut Avenue, Bohemia NY 11617-2176 + + Home Phone: 516-567-1936 FAX: 516-262-8053 + ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 May 1996 10:38:09 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jean-Francois Lariviere Subject: "The Secret of Bee Venom Therapy" Workshop Comments: To: BEEMAN1033@aol.com, DomQuixotq@aol.com, Honebergs@aol.com, SteveDud@aol.com, BIGBLUE77@aol.com, RoyBee@aol.com, Natalie172@aol.com, BeeMike@aol.com, Bee1234@aol.com, DANIELBEE@aol.com, FrGrTomata@aol.com, RoseBuzzzz@aol.com, HYBRIBEES@aol.com Comments: cc: a.l.@ix.netcom.com, 76270.631@compuserve.com, beehaven@msn.com, Fastsigns@aol.com, Bill3fish@aol.com, PTimn16717@aol.com, coxhoney@ida.net The Secret of Bee Venom Therapy Workshop at '96 EAS to reveal benefits of BVT For Immediate Release For Conference Info, Contact: Bob Wellemeyer EAS 540-937-2175 The American Apitherapy Society will sponsor a workshop at this year's Eastern Apicultural Society (EAS) Conference in Harrisonburg, Virginia. The Bee Venom Therapy (BVT) workshop will be held July 31st, from 8am - 12pm. Two of the leading experts in the field of BVT, Amber Rose and Charles Mraz, will lead the workshop. Ms. Rose, L.Ac., L.C.S.W. and author of "Bee in Balance", has been a healer all her life. As her psychotherapy practice alerted her to the value of acupuncture, Amber Rose's acupuncture experience led her to BVT. It is the combination of pyschotherapy, acupuncture and the remarkable healing power of the honeybees that has guided her to speak across the country on BVT. Mr. Mraz, a Master Beekeeper, world-reknowned speaker, father of Apitherapy and author of "Health and the Honeybee" will speak on his experiences. Mr. Mraz has pioneered the use of bee venom to treat auto-immune diseases, particularly arthritis and multiple sclerosis. Charles Mraz has over 60 years experience with BVT and has advocated its benefits to the medical establishment and the press for more than 30 years. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 May 1996 10:17:05 PDT Reply-To: TTOWNSE@ibm.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Tim Townsend Subject: Re: Plastic frame usage ---------------Original Message--------------- I am going to buy more frames this year. My questions are: 1. What methods did you use to coax them onto the frames? Used the same introduction methods as with traditional frames. 2. Would you recommend them over traditional frames? Yes, in my system they work better, as I was triing to reduce frame breakage, and drone comb. 3. Do you find them a cost effective alternative to traditional frames? Again, yes, with no construction and exact sizing they are IMHO cost effective. 4. Have you had any experience in using them in a solar wax extractor - can they stand the heat? No, they can not be put into a solor wax melter, or subjected to steam. Thanks Richard Richard Hatfield Home: Hatfielr@netlink.co.nz Wellington, New Zealand Part time Bee-keeper, mainly Project Manager TPLR HONEY FARMS Tim Townsend RR 1 Stony Plain Alberta TTOWNSE@IBM.NET ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 May 1996 15:26:49 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Steven Albritton Subject: Re: Wet bees... I'm new but was told to use dishwashing gloves. Seems to work good for me. I also read the same sugguestion somewhere else. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 May 1996 16:36:49 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Dave Green, Eastern Pollinator Newsletter" Subject: Re: Wet Bees . . . johntrn@ldd.net (John Taylor) writes: > >What I'm trying to get around to are questions - are my Italian bees >unusually gentle? Have I just lucked out and started handling them in a >manner that doesn't bother them? Or, am I soon going to have a larger >population, that is busier flying once all the comb is drawn out and will be >more likely to sting? They may be very gentle bees by genetics. However, you'll know more about that when the hive is full and the bees a bit congested. Small hives are usually quite good. An old beekeeper once told me (with a sarcastic tone in his voice): "If you don't want to get stung, keep your bees weak!" I've got a bunch of new hives now, with nucs having been installed in 10 frame hives, and they are averaging about 6-7 frames of brood. Boy are they nice to handle. Most of the time I could work without a veil. ---Not a trick I'd try when loading a bunch of two story hives with 17 frames of brood and bees hanging out the entrance. Some things that make bees nastier than nice: 1. Genetics, of course 2. Congestion inside the hive -- not enough supers? 3. Several days unable to fly (poor weather) 4. Building swarm cells 5. Queenless, or queen failing -- not many young bees 6. Pesticide hits -- minor damage from Sevin will really make them MEAN, other insecticides can too 7. Thunder rumbling in the distance 8. One mean hive in the beeyard giving off alarm odor, can set off others too 9. Odors -- sweat, cologne, perfume, hair spray, etc. In general, the foragers (old bees) are the ones most apt to sting, the more of them are out in the field, the gentler the hive will be. Hope your hive continues to be gentle, as it fills up. Pollinator@aol.com Dave and Janice Green, PO Box 1200, Hemingway, SC 29554 Practical Pollination Home Page http://users.aol.com/pollinator/polpage1.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 May 1996 16:56:02 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "" Subject: Mites of the Honey Bee Comments: cc: jharbo@asrr.arsusda.gov, eischen@rsru2.tamu.edu, wilson@rsru2.tamu.edu, kdelapla@service.uga.edu To: All members of the honey bee community From: Larry Connor, Wicwas press Re: The Mites of the Honey Bee Many of you are aware of our efforts to collect, edit and publish a book on The Mites of the Honey Bee. This project grew out of the American Bee Research Conference in the fall of 1994. The project has bounced between coeditors, and it is now my responsibility to complete the editing and publish the book. The book contains two sections, an invited textbook section, and a manuscript section. In the invited section, there are 18 chapters (as of this time) dealing heavily on Acarapis woodi and Varroa jacobsoni, their life history, impact on honey bees, and control methods. Sampling methods, resistance and non chemical controls are included. Most of the chapters are completed and are in the editing process. I urge all authors who have outstanding chapters to submit their ms ASAP. In the peer-reviewed manuscript section, we currently have 6 manuscripts under submission. Before we close off the book we invite researchers to submit new materials and/or update earlier submissions. If you have research on any mite of the honey bee, please email me to check on the possibility of publication. Peer-reviewed manuscripts will be charged a modest page charge to help offset the cost of publication, but no manuscript will be rejected based on the ability to pay page charges. It is the intention of the coeditors to produce the book so that it is a reasonably priced publication, one which may be purchased and read by a large number of beekeepers, as well as researchers. The American Association of Professional Apiculturists has voted to subsidize the book through a publication grant of $1,000. The coeditors continue to seek additional financial support to reduce the cost of publication, and thus, the cost of the book. If you desire any further information, have a posible manuscript for submission, wish to have your name placed on the list for notification when published, please contact me at LJCONNOR@AOL.COM. Thank you, on behalf of the other coeditors: William T. Wilson, John Harbo and Frank Eischen. Larry Connor, Editor/Publisher, Wicwas Press, P.O. Box 817, Cheshire, CT 06410-0817, USA Phone and Fax 203-250-7575 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 May 1996 16:33:23 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Steven Albritton Subject: Re: Wet Bees . . . It also seems to make them mad if you fool with them at night. Mine did not like me changing out the sugar water. For some reason I thought they would be asleep. > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 May 1996 18:53:33 -0300 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Stan Sandler Subject: Re: Wet bees...(thread changed) Ted Fischer wrote: >Just a couple observations. For years I have used Italian bees and love their >gentleness. I occasionally have considered getting other types, but when I >actually make the decision, it's always for the Italians. I think there must be a lot of variability in temperament within the races. I know that the bees I now have which are largely descended from New Zealand Italians and Australian Carniolans are much, much gentler than the Italian packages we used to get here from Florida. I find the Carniolans even calmer than the Italians. >I used to use bee gloves all the time to protect against stings, but now I use >them mostly in hot weather in the summer to protect my hands from propolis >sticking all over. I was wondering if anyone knows of another method besides gloves to keep propolis from sticking? I never tried oiling my hands with something. I may have to start carrying some alcohol to rinse it off. I seem to be developing an alergy to it. It doesn't bother me to chew it, but if I touch my face after handling frames it starts to itch and if I have touched close to my eyes then they burn. Anybody else have problems like this? Have a nice day Stan ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 May 1996 22:21:22 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Vince Coppola Subject: Re: combining hives In-Reply-To: <199605062238.SAA18694@postoffice.mail.cornell.edu> On Mon, 6 May 1996, James wrote: > and she seems to be healthy ( good wings...) My question is: should I just > leave the weak hive alone, let it nurse itself back to normal strength? or > should I combine it with one of the other hives and create one really strong > hive? I've been reading on the list lately about 2-queen systems and maybe About 14% of our colonies come though winter in this condition. If you just let them go many will barly get to wintering strength. Most can be salvaged by boosting with brood from your strong colonies. I start doing this in late April and only add a small amount of brood at this time. Don't give them more brood than they can cover. On each visit more brood can be added and by the time the honey flow starts most will be almost as good as the strong col. and will produce a normal crop. The queens in these colonies should be replaced as soon as convenient. Notice that the total input to save the weak colony is about the same as starting a nuc. The advantage is that when you have many weak and dead colonies to restart, this method gets more equipment going sooner than if you trash the weak ones and add them to your deadout list. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 May 1996 22:32:43 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Vince Coppola Subject: Re: Propolis on your hands In-Reply-To: <199605072153.SAA07653@bud.peinet.pe.ca> On Tue, 7 May 1996, Stan Sandler wrote: > developing an alergy to it. It doesn't bother me to chew it, but if I touch > my face after handling frames it starts to itch and if I have touched close > to my eyes then they burn. Anybody else have problems like this? > I thought it was pollen doing this. The only time of the year I get this burning is late August. I lets me know when Goldenrod is starting to bloom. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 May 1996 07:08:29 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Joel Govostes Subject: Propolis on your CLOTHES! Okay, then - what's the best way to get propolis out of clothing? I have ruined some of my wife's garments over the years because bits of propolis or wax got on them in the washer (even tiny bits) and when they went into the dryer it warmed up and got into the fabric. This has not helped our relationship(!) I've tried rubbing alcohol which seems to dissolve it somewhat but then it tends to just "spread out." So far that hasn't proved reliable. I realize all fabrics need different stain treatments, but would appreciate ANY ideas along these lines. Everyone else, pay attention to any replies - it may save you some grief! Thanks, J. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 May 1996 08:02:58 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Joel Govostes Subject: Re: Central NY beekeepers ? club? The Finger Lakes Bee Keepers Club meets monthly in Ithaca. Don't know who was asking about this, but further info can be obtained from Mr. Duane Waide, Interlaken, NY ph. (607) 532 - 4391. He publishes the newsletters. There is also an active bee club in the Binghamton area. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 May 1996 08:53:20 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: John Iannuzzi Subject: Supering for Beeginners Date: Wed 8 may 96 0746 edt From: John Iannuzzi To: Bee-L@uacsc2.albany.edu Bcc: John Iannuzzi Subject: Supering To be read only by abecedarians (S Pennsylvania; Maryland, District of Columbia and N Virginia). 1. Now is the time to place the empty supers on with extract- ed comb or, if not available, then with plain wiredfoundation because the honeyflow is imminent--only if the goal is e x t r a c t e d honey. 2. This condition occurs only once yearly in these parts when the black locust (Robinia pseudoacacia) and tulip poplar (Liriodendron tulipifera) are in bloom, normally between 1 may and 1 june (not started yet here!). 3. I normally use only nine-frame shallow supers (with Stoller spacers), three per hive, but for my strongest colony that has two Ross-Round supers on for circular comb-honey production. Note that I do no "bottom supering" (placing only one super per hive and when it is partly filled, lifting it and putting an MT super beneath it and so on ad infinitum--both unnecessary and too labor-intensive, in my experience). 4. Now if I want some cut-comb honey, I use a ten-frame super with drawn comb but for frame #5 which carries a sheet of unwired foundation. 5. I check my supers every Monday morn (have done this once so far) for degree of filling and switch supers untouched to hives that are filling them. (That's why it is important to have all supers on all hives--ease of manipulation.) 6. BTW, the t/p tree is the main source of honey in central Maryland. B/L, altho it blooms every and furnishes the superior honey (light and deelishous), is mercurial. A surplus is harvested only about once every five years. (For my view on this phenomenon see J Iannuzzi, "Black Locust as a Honey Plant: An apiculturist for the past 30 consecutive years discusses the temperamental black locust trees girding his four-acre spread 15 miles west of Baltimore and 25 miles north of the White House," (American Bee Journal, May 1990 (1990), 315-317. Jack the Bman Elllicott City Maryland usa ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 May 1996 08:47:00 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Lawrence Kellogg <0002081812@mcimail.com> Subject: Re: Supering for Beeginners To be read only by abecedarians (S Pennsylvania; Maryland, District of Columbia and N Virginia). I guess I'm one of those.... >3. I normally use only nine-frame shallow supers (with >Stoller spacers), three per hive, but for my strongest colony >that has two Ross-Round supers on for circular comb-honey >production. Note that I do no "bottom supering" (placing >only one super per hive and when it is partly filled, lifting >it and putting an MT super beneath it and so on ad >infinitum--both unnecessary and too labor-intensive, in my >experience). Yep, I have my supers on the hives. I was wondering if it was a good idea to put the Ross Round supers on now or wait until things get cooking a little? I haven't done any comb honey before so when is the best time? I thought the idea was to put them on during the heaviest part of the flow so that they draw and cap it quickly. That way you can remove it before it gets travel stained. Larry Kellogg Silver Spring, MD (lkellogg@mcimail.com) ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 May 1996 08:32:21 PDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Adrian Wenner Subject: Re: ant disaster A number of people have now provided comment about ant control, including the following comment: >>Do you really want to be pouring gasoline and diesel fuel into the ground >>to kill ants? You know that you will end up drinking the gas one of >>these days don't you? It is even less logical to ignite the fuel, as >>there is insuficient oxygen in the ground to burn, all you get is a nice >>visible flame, but you do reverse some of the damage you have done. if >>you want to pour something in the ground use boiling water. It will kill >>the ants and not harm the ground water. Actually, soapy water does just fine, with about a quarter cup of kitchen detergent in a half a bucket of water. And John E. Taylor III wrote: >You're right, of course. The hydrocarbons do neither the air nor the >groundwater any good at all. But oh, what a lovely job a half cup of >gasoline does on an ant or yellow jacket nest! I have used the soapy water treatment on both ants and yellow jackets. One can also use a tablespoon full of detergent mixed into a spray bottle full of water and set on stream for target practice. A direct hit on a yellow jacket results in its death within a minute or so. ***** To keep ants out of houses, one can use a chemical treatment very sparingly in a way that does not pollute the environment. The rationale is as follows: Often an ant colony in some ways represents a giant amoeba, with its trails similar to the amoeboid pseudopods. By blocking the trails where they enter houses or where they go up trees, one can divert the colony's attention elsewhere. To do that, one can follow EPA guidelines and distribute a great amount of poison around the house and garden, thereby polluting the environment greatly and by inadvertently killing many beneficial insects. A far more simple treatment, one not approved by the EPA, will suffice and result in virtually no environmental contamination. A description of that technique follows. 1) Purchase a small bottle of Diazinon PLUS Insect Spray (ORTHO, Chevron Chemical Co.) from drug or grocery store. Buy also a medicine dropper, preferably one that comes with a dropper bottle. 2) Save up friction top caps from gallon milk bottles or Kodak film cannisters (photo processing centers usually provide them free). These serve as dishes. 3) Find where the ant trail enters the house or starts up a plant. Using the lid or cap as a dish, place into it 5-6 drops of the undiluted liquid poison. Within an hour dead ants should be seen on the surface near the dish, and within a couple of hours the ant trail will no longer exist. The detergent breaks down in the open air wihin a day --- save and wash "dishes" in detergent water for re-use. Adrian *************************************************************** * Adrian Wenner E-Mail wenner@lifesci.lscf.ucsb.edu * * Dept.Ecol.,Evol.,& Mar.Biol. Office Phone (805) 893-2838 * * University of California Lab Phone (805) 893-2675 * * Santa Barbara, CA 93106 FAX (805) 893-8062 * * * * "Once a structurally complete and closed system of opinions * *consisting of many details and relations has been formed, it * *offers enduring resistance to anything that contradicts it." * * Ludwik Fleck, 1935 [1979] * *************************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 May 1996 08:43:23 PDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Adrian Wenner Subject: Re: Beekeepers downtown Hi, Paul. I caught another swarm in my backyard a few weeks ago (in one of the tub-like swarm hives installed for that purpose), a swarm that has done very well so far. Last Sunday I moved it out here on campus to Don Cole's bee yard for his use. I am puzzled, though, that I continue to get swarms even though most feral colonies everywhere have been killed by varroa mites (with help from tracheal mites). Do you know of anyone who keeps hives in our area (Milpas/Canon Perdido) and keeps them alive with Apistan strips? The bee colonies on Santa Cruz Island are now collapsing rapidly, information gleaned on trips in early April and early May. Adrian *************************************************************** * Adrian Wenner E-Mail wenner@lifesci.lscf.ucsb.edu * * Dept.Ecol.,Evol.,& Mar.Biol. Office Phone (805) 893-2838 * * University of California Lab Phone (805) 893-2675 * * Santa Barbara, CA 93106 FAX (805) 893-8062 * * * * "Once a structurally complete and closed system of opinions * *consisting of many details and relations has been formed, it * *offers enduring resistance to anything that contradicts it." * * Ludwik Fleck, 1935 [1979] * *************************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 May 1996 08:58:32 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Kerry Clark of AGF 784-2225 fax (604) 784 2299" Subject: Re: Propolis on your hands In-Reply-To: You might try a product that I think is named Liquid Glove. A beekeeper I know who also does cabinet making uses it to keep glue off his skin, and propolis off his hands. It's a thin film, so it wouldn't stand up to abrasion. Kerry Clark, Apiculture Specialist B.C. Ministry of Agriculture 1201 103 Ave Dawson Creek B.C. V1G 4J2 CANADA Tel (604) 784-2225 fax (604) 784-2299 INTERNET KCLARK@GALAXY.GOV.BC.CA ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 May 1996 09:24:46 PDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Adrian Wenner Subject: Re: Message sent by mistake >[My] message dated Wed, 8 May 96 08:43:23 PDT with subject "Re: Beekeepers >downtown" was been successfully distributed to the BEE-L list (350 >recipients). Sorry to all of you on the BEE-L list --- my profound apologies. By hitting the return button, I thought my message was going out only to Paul Cronshaw of Santa Barbara. For those who are interested, though, we continue to have swarms in the downtown area of Santa Barbara, even though presumably no beekeepers operate there (against the city ordinance). If this keeps up, we may end up with a colony that can survive varroa. Adrian *************************************************************** * Adrian Wenner E-Mail wenner@lifesci.lscf.ucsb.edu * * Dept.Ecol.,Evol.,& Mar.Biol. Office Phone (805) 893-2838 * * University of California Lab Phone (805) 893-2675 * * Santa Barbara, CA 93106 FAX (805) 893-8062 * * * * "Once a structurally complete and closed system of opinions * *consisting of many details and relations has been formed, it * *offers enduring resistance to anything that contradicts it." * * Ludwik Fleck, 1935 [1979] * *************************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 May 1996 09:59:37 PDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Adrian Wenner Subject: Re: Propolis on your hands Kerry Clark wrote; > You might try a product that I think is named Liquid Glove. A beekeeper > I know who also does cabinet making uses it to keep glue off his skin, > and propolis off his hands. It's a thin film, so it wouldn't stand up to > abrasion. One can also use disposable surgical gloves --- they cost only pennies. Adrian *************************************************************** * Adrian Wenner E-Mail wenner@lifesci.lscf.ucsb.edu * * Dept.Ecol.,Evol.,& Mar.Biol. Office Phone (805) 893-2838 * * University of California Lab Phone (805) 893-2675 * * Santa Barbara, CA 93106 FAX (805) 893-8062 * * * * "Once a structurally complete and closed system of opinions * *consisting of many details and relations has been formed, it * *offers enduring resistance to anything that contradicts it." * * Ludwik Fleck, 1935 [1979] * *************************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 May 1996 11:36:38 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Roy Nettlebeck Subject: Honeybees in the news. Hello All, Here in western Washington USA the press has started to talk about the lack of bees this year.People do notice that there apple trees have no bees on them , when they are in full bloom. I think the Honeybee will do her own PR work to get help.Maybe the negative press that beekeepers did get about government hand outs , might go over the sunset. You don't have to say too much to the public , just tell them to look for themselves. We must have had feral colonys all over western washington. It looks bleak to people that have there special fruit tree and no bees to pollenate it.Maybe this is a good wake up call for everyone.A lot of animals and birds depends on seeds and wild fruit for survival. We are not having the best of weather around the country either. This should bring out the best in us as, beekeepers and researchers. We can not take any part of this mite problem , as just one problem.It is complex with Varroa a known vector for 3 viruses. Ten out of ten states checked for virus , show positive results. It would be very benificial for every beekeeper to try and find a hive with a low cout of Varroa in the fall. The USDA needs our help and we need theres. It would be nice to get a little feedback on how many Queens they have recieved to work with on a breeding program against Varroa. I know that some beekeepers are doing that themselves also. Real feral colonys are going to 0 around here. By next spring bees will be in great demand for small farmers.It looks like we can all learn something out of this problem.The Honeybee is more than a latin name in a biology book, it is a key player in all of nature. I know why a lady went on to get a PhD., so she could even learn more about this wonderful insect.She is one of many , who are trying to study and learn more about our honeybee.All of us need to help in any way that we can. Just by looking at our bees a little closser and paying a little more attention to there behavior , we may see something that can help everyone. I worked with my bees yesterday, we had sun and a lot of wind at my place. I did some requeening and splits. I came accross 4 or 5 hives that were low on brood and just not doing well. I requeened them , but it was more than a new queen could do for them. I'm going to check for TM. I guess I look back at beekeeping before the mites and it was easy to get a hive of carni's up in 3 deeps full of brood in may and about 200 pounds of honey in the fall. Now I hope to get them thru the winter and going at all during the spring. I have some hives that are in 4 deeps and 2 supers right now.I have a new queen in there also.I started feeding pollen and syurp in Jan.We had a mild wet winter.Now you better be on top of your bees or your out of bees.I will be glad to look back at this time and say , boy we made it with a lot of work by many. Best Regards Roy ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 May 1996 20:10:31 GMT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Franklin D. Humphrey Sr." Subject: Re: Honeybees in the news. At 06:36 PM 5/8/96 +0000, you wrote: > Hello All, Here in western Washington USA the press has started to talk >about the lack of bees this year.People do notice that there apple trees >have no bees on them , when they are in full bloom. I think the Honeybee >will do her own PR work to get help.Maybe the negative press that >beekeepers did get about government hand outs , might go over the sunset. > You don't have to say too much to the public , just tell them to look >for themselves. We must have had feral colonys all over western >washington. It looks bleak to people that have there special fruit tree >and no bees to pollenate it.Maybe this is a good wake up call for >everyone.A lot of animals and birds depends on seeds and wild fruit for >survival. > We are not having the best of weather around the country either. This >should bring out the best in us as, beekeepers and researchers. We can >not take any part of this mite problem , as just one problem.It is >complex with Varroa a known vector for 3 viruses. Ten out of ten states >checked for virus , show positive results. It would be very benificial >for every beekeeper to try and find a hive with a low cout of Varroa in >the fall. The USDA needs our help and we need theres. It would be nice to >get a little feedback on how many Queens they have recieved to work with >on a breeding program against Varroa. I know that some beekeepers are >doing that themselves also. > Real feral colonys are going to 0 around here. By next spring bees will >be in great demand for small farmers.It looks like we can all learn >something out of this problem.The Honeybee is more than a latin name in a >biology book, it is a key player in all of nature. I know why a lady went >on to get a PhD., so she could even learn more about this wonderful >insect.She is one of many , who are trying to study and learn more about >our honeybee.All of us need to help in any way that we can. Just by >looking at our bees a little closser and paying a little more attention >to there behavior , we may see something that can help everyone. > I worked with my bees yesterday, we had sun and a lot of wind at my >place. I did some requeening and splits. I came accross 4 or 5 hives that >were low on brood and just not doing well. I requeened them , but it was >more than a new queen could do for them. I'm going to check for TM. I >guess I look back at beekeeping before the mites and it was easy to get a >hive of carni's up in 3 deeps full of brood in may and about 200 pounds >of honey in the fall. Now I hope to get them thru the winter and going at >all during the spring. I have some hives that are in 4 deeps and 2 supers >right now.I have a new queen in there also.I started feeding pollen and >syurp in Jan.We had a mild wet winter.Now you better be on top of your >bees or your out of bees.I will be glad to look back at this time and say >, boy we made it with a lot of work by many. > Best Regards >Roy >Hi All There was also a story on Headline News Network this week about the lack of Honey Bees both feral and kept. Frank Humphrey ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 9 May 1996 02:00:40 GMT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Franklin D. Humphrey Sr." Subject: Iternet Address Hi All I have been having some difficulty getting and sending mail on the internet. I have changed to the new AT&T service and the e-mail address that worked the first 2 weeks,(beekeeper@worldnet.com), no longer works. The address that works this week is: beekeeper@worldnet.att.net. For those of you on this service you may encounter this same problem. Sorry to put this on the list but I've had some phone calls so I decided to throw the address out and see who jumped on it. Frank Humphrey beekeeper@worldnet.att.net ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 May 1996 22:13:40 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Hervey Heywood Subject: Re: bee club For those who might be interested in another beekeepers organization in central New York State, the one serving Broome county, plus several surrounding areas, meeting usually in Binghamton, the contact is: Earl Villecco, newsletter editor. Phone 607-693-1571 Meetings monthly, except deep winter. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 9 May 1996 04:56:17 GMT Reply-To: mjensen@crl.com Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Mark Jensen Organization: No Junk Mail Subject: Re: Propolis on your CLOTHES! In-Reply-To: On Wed, 8 May 1996 07:08:29 -0500, you wrote: >Okay, then - what's the best way to get propolis out of clothing? I have >ruined some of my wife's garments over the years because bits of propolis >or wax got on them in the washer (even tiny bits) and when they went into >the dryer it warmed up and got into the fabric. This has not helped our >relationship(!) I've tried rubbing alcohol which seems to dissolve it >somewhat but then it tends to just "spread out." So far that hasn't proved >reliable. I realize all fabrics need different stain treatments, but would >appreciate ANY ideas along these lines. Everyone else, pay attention to >any replies - it may save you some grief! Thanks, J. > I scrub the propolis spot with hot water and boraxo and then place the garment in the washing machine with some more boraxo and bleach. Does a pretty good job. Mark Jensen Double J Apiaries mjensen@crl.com Los Altos Hills California fax 415 941-3488 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 9 May 1996 06:52:05 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "James D. Satterfield" Subject: Priming cups for grafting queen cells Laidlaw suggests using diluted royal jelly to prime queen cell cups for grafting larvae. Under the conditions I have of temperature and humidity, it seems desirable to prime the cups but I don't have royal jelly. Any suggestions? I don't know what is isosmotic for the larvae. With my last graft I tried diluting some of the honey from the open cells at the top of the bar I was using to graft from. I'll see how those grafts were accepted tomorrow. Anyone tried saliva for priming the cups? I've used saliva as a viscous medium to mount termite gut protozoa for viewing with a microscope, but I haven't tried it for other protozoa. I suppose to get an answer with respect to the bee larvae, I should "ask the larvae" but I thought I see what others have done to prime cups for grafting. Looks like a good poplar flow here at Canton, GA about 40 mi N of Atlanta. This is nice compared to last spring when, for the first time in 15 years, there was NO poplar flow! I'm running 25 "modified Tanzanian Topbar Hives"...bees are happy...life is good. Hope you have a good year. Cordially yours, Jim -------------------------------------------------------------- | James D. Satterfield | E-Mail: jsatt@gsu.edu | | P.O. Box 2243 ------------------------------ | Decatur, GA 30031, USA 258 Ridge Pine Drive | | S.E. United States or Canton, GA 30114, USA | | Telephone (404) 378-8917 Telephone (770) 479-4784 | -------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 9 May 1996 10:18:50 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Dave Green, Eastern Pollinator Newsletter" Subject: What are the finest (and worst) honeys? My wife and I are enjoying (and packing) some of the eastern US varietal honeys, and are more and more interested in doing gift packs of these. We also are thinking of doing honey tasting parties, like the wine folks do. My question is: Outside of eastern USA, I'm sure there are many fine honeys (and maybe some awful ones too), and I'd like to hear from some of the beekeepers on what they consider the finest and worst of their area. Who knows, maybe we'd be interested in buying some of these? Some we already know about: South Carolina: Blackberry: Tangy and fruity, medium color. Tupelo: Water white, bland flavor, won't crystallize. Not my favorite; I like more flavor, but mighty popular with some buyers. Sourwood: Smokey, bluish color, very tangy, definitely should be tasted by any honey connoseur. But be careful; a lot more sourwood is sold than produced. Gallberry: Very light, mild flavor; has a slight "edge" that I don't personally like, but, again a lot of folks do. We bottle together with blackberry, calling it berry blossom, and the blackberry definitely predominates. Poplar (Yellow or tulip): Nearly black, reddish in strong light. Ugh! Very strong, sharp flavor, loved by those who grew up on it. Privit: Nearly black, very rich and buttery taste. In pure form too strong, but blended, as it usually is, is naturally quite nice, but hard to sell. Goldenrod/astor: Fairly light if there is a good flow, dark if it dribbles in, very nice spicy taste. Never could figure out why gov't thought this was "non-table" grade. Anise Hyssip: A wild herb that makes a medium to dark, licorice flavored honey. I wish I could get more; most is used on spring buildup. Others: Orange blossom (includes all citrus): Florida, medium to light color, very orangy taste. A very nice honey. Palmetto: SE coast Medium, slightly reddish. Mild flavor, too mild for me. Brazillian Pepper: FL My vote for most awful. Avocado: FL dark amber, unique taste I can't describe, anyone want to try. A good honey, but probably not a great honey. Raspberry: Catskills and Berkshires, a medium light, nice fruity honey. Probably nearly indistinguishable from Blackberry. Clover: True clover on a high lime soil has a real nice tangy flavor. What is labeled clover in the supermarkets is too much like corn syrup for me. Basswood: Very minty, delicious, especially if blended a bit with clover. Gets very sharp and unpleasant if overheated just a little. Apple blossom: Hard to make, as bees use most in buildup, but a very nice fruity honey. Cherry blossom: I sure wish I could get commercial quantities of this. I have tasted it once (from my own bees - black cherry ) and it was pure HEAVEN. Fabulous cherry taste. Buckwheat: I grew up on this, so I'm biased. Dark, tarry looking, but absolutely delicious! If it is too strong, can be blended down with a mild honey, but I wouldn't do it for myself. Unfortunately a lot of beekeepers dump the honey from the capping melter into the buckwheat batch, and that sure spoils it in a hurry. I can't describe the flavor. If you have ever had buckwheat pancakes, you can get an idea. Japanese Bamboo: A wild buckwheat that grows along river bottoms in the NE, it is milder in flavor than regular buckwheat, and very delicious. Of course varietal honeys vary from year to year, and place to place. Your votes and comments? Pollinator@aol.com Dave and Janice Green, PO Box 1200, Hemingway, SC 29554 Practical Pollination Home Page http://users.aol.com/pollinator/polpage1.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 9 May 1996 00:28:31 +0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Conrad Sigona Subject: Re: bee club > For those who might be interested in another beekeepers organization in > central New York State, the one serving Broome county, plus several > surrounding areas, meeting usually in Binghamton, the contact is: > Earl Villecco, newsletter editor. Phone 607-693-1571 There's also the Mid-York Beekeepers meeting every other month in the Utica-Rome area. The contact is me. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 9 May 1996 11:18:06 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Albert W. Needham" Subject: BumbleBee A friend of mine, a commercial beekeeper, has a bumblebee setting up home in an empty super that was lying around with a mouse nest in it (empty). He would like to find out some info on bumblebees. Anyone out there who can point to a book or some literature on bumbles that may be available thru a public library system? "BeeWorks" a software program, SVGA illustrated, designed to educate the general public (adults and/or kids) in an interesting and entertaining format is coming along very nicely. Still looking for any interesting and/or humorous tales about your experiences with honey bees to include in it (credited to you or anonymous-your choice). Thus program will be "freeware". (No profit to me-just cause I like honey bees). Thanks, Al Needham Hobbyist Scituate, MA, USA ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 9 May 1996 12:06:11 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Albert W. Needham" Subject: "BeeWorks"(Again) I recall seeing something about a BeeKeeper in Vermont (?) who administers Bee stings to sufferers of arthritis,etc. Does anyone know who/where he is? I would like to get in touch with him. Thanks Al Needham Hobbyist Scituate, MA,USA ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 9 May 1996 08:18:15 AST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Tom Elliott Subject: Re: (Varietal Honeys) - Alaskan Fireweed Fireweed honey - Usually water white, 'very' mild to the point of being almost flavorless. But, quite popular on the specialty market. No bulk quantities available. I rarely get any of this in my cooler coastal area. Only produced in warmer, mostly interior, regions. Tom Elliott Eagle River, Alaska Keeping Bees in the Frozen North ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 9 May 1996 10:28:33 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Dick Subject: Re: BumbleBee >A friend of mine, a commercial beekeeper, has a bumblebee setting up home in >an empty super that was lying around with a mouse nest in it (empty). He >would like to find out some info on bumblebees. > >Anyone out there who can point to a book or some literature on bumbles that >may be available thru a public library system? Bumblebee hives are rented or sold by Bees West, Freedom, CA (408-728-3325) and Biobest Biological Systems, Turboville, PA (717-649-6289) Also there is a list at BOMBUS-L@mercury.cc.uottawa.ca (cplowrit@aix1.uottawa.ca) which you can join. They have lots of info on bumblebees. Dick Strohl St. Louis Park, MN ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 9 May 1996 11:48:34 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ted Fischer Subject: Apitherapy request REGARDING Apitherapy request Al Needham writes: "I recall seeing something about a BeeKeeper in Vermont (?) who administers Bee stings to sufferers of arthritis,etc. Does anyone know who/where he is? I would like to get in touch with him." You are thinking of Charles Mraz of Middlebury, Vermont, a beekeeper and practioner of apitherapy for many years. Information about him and the subject may be found on the internet, searching for "apitherapy". One such site is: http://www.shore.net/~spectrum/apitherapy.html Ted Fischer ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 9 May 1996 13:44:23 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Aaron Morris Subject: Rearing Bumble Bees There was a three part article in the 'Classroom' section of _American_Bee_Journal_, authored by Keith Delaplane, starting late last summer and running through the winter. I don't know the specific issues, but the articles were quite informative. Aaron Morris - I think, therefore I bee! ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 9 May 1996 11:18:21 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Roy Nettlebeck Subject: Re: (Varietal Honeys) - Alaskan Fireweed In-Reply-To: <9604098316.AA831655299@jhqnov.dot.state.ak.us> On Thu, 9 May 1996, Tom Elliott wrote: > Fireweed honey - Usually water white, 'very' mild to the point of > being almost flavorless. But, quite popular on the specialty market. > No bulk quantities available. > > I rarely get any of this in my cooler coastal area. Only produced in > warmer, mostly interior, regions. > Hi Tom and All , Here in Washington state we get fireweed honey in the clear cut areas after a slash burn. Its a pilot crop and it was one of the first plants that came back after Mt. Saint Hellens blew her top. I take my bees up around the 4000 ft. mark in the Olympic mountains to get my fireweed honey. It is very mild and water white. I did not get very much at all this last year.I did load up the year before and extracted 5,400 pounds. I sold most of it off my self in two months.The price is up there and could sell a ton more at $ 4.00 a pound. It is so light that people that don't like honey , try some on a stick and will buy it because its just sweet with not much flavor at all. Best Regards Roy ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 9 May 1996 14:50:38 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Hervey Heywood Subject: Re: bee club >There's also the Mid-York Beekeepers meeting every other month in the Utica-Rome area. The >contact is me. Respectfully, sir, who is "me"? My online platform or the bee-l format gives only the Bee-L address in the "from" line, and doesn't identify the sender. It would be most helpful for one posting a message to give his/her name and e-mail address. I confess that I've forgotten sometimes, including yesterday. (hanging head) Then we can answer selectively, when the information is not pertinent to the entire list. Hervey hervey.heywood@cyber-quest.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 9 May 1996 12:37:24 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Charlie Bradley Subject: Re: What are the finest (and worst) honeys? Dear Dave and Janice, I don't know if I ever had pure goldenrod honey before but I have had excellent flows of wild aster. I think that the reason it is not considered table grade is a couple of characteristics. One is the perchance for crystallizing. I have had drops start to crystallize on the tailgate of the truck by the time I returned home after a half day in the field. Even after heating it will crystallize much faster than other honey's. The other is the smell. It has a very stong odor for about a year. After that it loses most of the odor but it is still evident. In a good flow it does come in with a very light color. In fact I have had flows where it was as light as any clover honey. A man in Indianapolis who handled bee supplies and bought and sold honey had a good walk in trade for wild flower honey. He liked the Aster honey and would store it for a year and then blend it with other flavors for his customers. In southern Indiana where I lived before moving to northern Indiana, aster honey was considered a good honey to winter hives on. In spite of the crystallization it was good food for the bees as long as it was well cured. The smoothest honey that I have ever tasted was made from wild Morning Glory. The locals called it bluevine. In the river bottoms before the use of chemicals the river would overflow killing out patches of corn. If the corn was large enough the farmers could not get into the areas to replant and there would be areas free of corn and the morning glory would grow unchecked. That is when there would get a strong flow of bluevine honey. Many years ago when I was a small boy my father had bees next to buckwheat and I know what you mean by the dark, thick honey. I did'nt particularly like it. Good luck in your survey. Charlie Charles R. Bradley Extension Educator Marshall County Extension Office 112 W. Jefferson Street Room 304 Plymouth, IN 46563 Phone: 219-935-8545 Email: Charles_Bradley@acn.purdue.edu ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 9 May 1996 12:17:26 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Teri Rhan Subject: Re: What are the finest (and worst) honeys? In-Reply-To: <9605091737.AA29033@server.marshall.ces.purdue.edu> AS far as worst goes..... Some friends of mine brought back some "Black Forest" honey from Germany from Black Forest pines.......blechhh! I swear it was mixed with turpentine. I accepted it graciously but.... I'm glad they don't read this group. Teri (in cloudy Seattle) ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 9 May 1996 16:24:00 +0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Conrad Sigona Subject: Re: bee club > >There's also the Mid-York Beekeepers meeting every other month in the > Utica-Rome area. The >contact is me. > > Respectfully, sir, who is "me"? > > My online platform or the bee-l format gives only the Bee-L address in > the "from" line, and doesn't identify the sender. It would be most > helpful for one posting a message to give his/her name and e-mail > address. Conrad Sigona 315-845-1581 conrad@ntcnet.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 10 May 1996 08:57:26 GMT+1200 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Nick Wallingford Organization: Bay of Plenty Polytechnic Subject: Re: What are the finest (and worst) honeys? > AS far as worst goes..... > Some friends of mine brought back some "Black Forest" honey from Germany > from Black Forest pines.......blechhh! I swear it was mixed with > turpentine. This would have been one of the many varieties of honeydew. Rather than being of floral nectary origin, honeydew is a sticky sweet product that is a waste product of a variety of misc. insects, gathered by and modified by bees. There. I managed to say that without using an derogutory slurs or offputting descriptions, almost! Many people *do* like it. I personally only like it in baking, not using it as a table 'honey', even though I like most strong flavoured honeys. In New Zealand, large quantities are produced from the beech (often called birch, though they are not) forests (Nothofagus spp.) of the South Island. As for the best? For the dark honeys I go for rewarewa (Knightsia excelsa), a dark thick reddish honey, with a 'savoury' rather than sweet flavour and aftertaste. And for light honey I go for rata (Metrosideros umbellata), whiter than white, and naturally granulating (fast!) into a smooth surprisingly strong flavoured product. ------------------------------------------ Nick Wallingford President - National Beekeepers Assn of NZ NZ beekeeping: http://www.wave.co.nz/pages/nickw/nzbkpg.htm work nw1@boppoly.ac.nz home nickw@wave.co.nz ------------------------------------------ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 9 May 1996 16:30:02 +0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Conrad Sigona Subject: Re: What are the finest (and worst) honeys? > AS far as worst goes..... > Some friends of mine brought back some "Black Forest" honey from Germany > from Black Forest pines.......blechhh! I swear it was mixed with > turpentine. I accepted it graciously but.... > I'm glad they don't read this group. I believe what you're speaking of is tannen honig (fir tree honey), which would explain its turpentine taste. In Germany, its quite expensive compared to regular honey. As I recall, it isn't a honey gathered by bees but a substance extracted by boiling. I might be wrong about that, so perhaps some German friend of the bee list will set me straight. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 9 May 1996 17:49:53 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "David E. Pritchard" <102361.222@CompuServe.COM> Subject: Maple Syrup as Feed I have recently spoken with a beekeeper that is feeding maple syrup to his colonies. He states that they take it more readily than sucrose syrup. This might be because it is more concentrated than the sucrose syrup normally fed in spring @ 1:1. Expense of maple syrup is not a barrier as his supply comes free. Some questions I would like some help with; o> I assume that maple syrup contains more than sugar(s). If I recall my botany correctly, sugars from photosynthesis are converted into starch for storage in the roots. Is this sent upwards in the spring with/without conversion? o> Do/can the enzymes that the bees add convert starch to its component sugar(s)? o> Can maple syrup cause problems (dysentery) when these stores are consumed by the colony? Concentration of the sap yields some scorched sugar products. Any thoughts? Answers and further insight would be helpful. Thanks, Dave Pritchard 102361.222@compuserve.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 9 May 1996 12:35:56 -1000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Walter Patton Subject: Hawaii's best Honey MY VOTE FOR BEST IS THE WHITE LEHUA HONEY HONEY DESCRIPTIONS Delicious 100% Raw Hawaiian Honey never heated . Macadamia- Mahogany colored, thick liqud style and may crystallize slowly, rich hearty taste. Christmas Berry ( Brazilian Pepper )- Caramel colored, soft crystallization, an exciting and slightly spicy taste. Lehua ( Ohia Tree )- Creamy colored, firm crystallization quickly, a hot sunny window will soften and gently warming will re-liquify as desired, buttery " Dream Maker " taste. Kiawe- Off white color, soft smooth crystyallization, mild hardly discernable taste. Orange Blossom (Citrus)- Mead colored, stays liquid, very clear and has a tangy bright taste. Often mixed with avocado and mango. Various Hawaiian Nectars- Wide variety of colors throughout the year and may stay liquid or crystallized . Always a special taste enjoy the " Magic Of Hawaii " We will attempt to advise on availability, and fill your orders as requested. We will make substitutions and will fill orders with only Raw 100 % Hawaiian honey. We are eager to serve you. When ordering please specify if you desire for your honey to be liquid or crystallized when it arrives. Satisfaction is always guaranteed Walter Patton Walter & Elisabeth Patton, 27-703 A Ka' ie'ie Rd., Papaikou HI.,96781 Ph./Fax. 808-964-5401 E-Mail hihoney@ilhawaii Beekeeper and Bed & Breakfast Owner in Hawaii http://www.alohamall.com/hamakua/hihoney.htm http://www.alohamall.com/hamakua/beeware.htm http://www.alohamall.com/hamakua/lamalani.htm ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 9 May 1996 14:40:21 AST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Tom Elliott Subject: Re: Maple Syrup as feed My bees will occasionally collect sap from Birch trees in the spring. This is not usual, since it is not usually available. I have not seen any problem. After all the work boiling the syrup it would seem a waste to use it for bees. But Maple Syrup is an exotic substance up here in the maple free state of Alaska. Tom Elliott Eagle River, Alaska Keeping Bees in the Frozen North Tom_Elliott_at_ANCAV1@JHQNOV.DOT.STATE.AK.US ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 9 May 1996 18:53:12 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Bob Cook Subject: Birch Syrup At 02:40 PM 5/9/96 AST, you wrote: > My bees will occasionally collect sap from Birch trees in the spring. > This is not usual, since it is not usually available. I have not seen > any problem. After all the work boiling the syrup it would seem a > waste to use it for bees. But Maple Syrup is an exotic substance up > here in the maple free state of Alaska. > > > Tom Elliott > Eagle River, Alaska > Keeping Bees in the Frozen North > > Tom_Elliott_at_ANCAV1@JHQNOV.DOT.STATE.AK.US > > Tom, Birch sap also makes a fine, light syrup - takes about twict the sap as maple syrup. Bob Cook Minneapolis, Minnesota, USA BobCook@Minn.Net "Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get you" BC ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 9 May 1996 17:48:19 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Roy Nettlebeck Subject: Re: ant disaster In-Reply-To: On Wed, 8 May 1996, Adrian Wenner wrote: > Actually, soapy water does just fine, with about a quarter cup of > kitchen detergent in a half a bucket of wat > I have used the soapy water treatment on both ants and yellow jackets. > One can also use a tablespoon full of detergent mixed into a spray bottle > full of water and set on stream for target practice. A direct hit on a > yellow jacket results in its death within a minute or so. > > **** Hi Adrian , Your post was very timely for me.I was stacking up some deep boxs for some painting and I came across a couple of boxs that had the red headed ants in them. I mixed up some soapy water and did add a little borax and put it in a sprayer. It worked great. They were runing all over the boxs and I just kept spraying them. I went back out in about an hour and found some under a cover. So I sprayed them also. They just curl up and die and we don't have to mess up our enviornment. Thanks for the great info. Worked like a charm. Best Regards Roy ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 9 May 1996 19:05:56 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Kevin & Ann Christensen Subject: Re: Priming cups for grafting queen cells ------ =_NextPart_000_01BB3DDA.B5CA00A0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Anyone tried saliva for priming the cups? I've used saliva as a viscous medium to mount termite gut protozoa for viewing with a microscope, but = I haven't tried it for other protozoa. I suppose to get an answer with respect to the bee larvae, I should "ask the larvae" but I thought I see what others have done to prime cups for grafting. We don't prime the cups when we graft. However, speaking of saliva, I = graft with a fine brush and I do lick the brush alot just to staighten = out the hairs. We've been quite successful with our queen rearing and = so I can say that the small amount of saliva that comes off the brush, = doesn't hurt a thing. We are having very cool weather here in northeast Alberta. I made up = cell builders in the snow on Monday and grafted Tuesday with a high = temp. of +4 degrees celcius. In spite of the cold, the cells are = developing normally. By the way, we insulate our cell builders and = queen mothers. 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You may try using lyophylized royal jelly which is readily available in the market as a primer. Add few drops of distilled water to the royal jelly powder to make a thick solution. I have been using this under tropical condition with more than 80% successful < for Apis cerana anyway>. Nik Mohamed ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 9 May 1996 23:57:02 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Dave Green, Eastern Pollinator Newsletter" Subject: Re: BumbleBee In a message dated 96-05-09 11:21:38 EDT, Alwine@AOL.COM (Albert W. Needham) writes: >Subj: BumbleBee >Date: 96-05-09 11:21:38 EDT >From: Alwine@AOL.COM (Albert W. Needham) >Sender: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU (Discussion of Bee Biology) >Reply-to: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU (Discussion of Bee Biology) >To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU (Multiple recipients of list BEE-L) > >A friend of mine, a commercial beekeeper, has a bumblebee setting up home in >an empty super that was lying around with a mouse nest in it (empty). He >would like to find out some info on bumblebees. > >Anyone out there who can point to a book or some literature on bumbles that >may be available thru a public library system? Bumblebee series by Dr. Keith Delaplane, Extension Entomologist, University of Georgia "Why Bumble Bees", pp 459-460 American Bee Journal, July 1995 "Bumble Beekeeping: The Queen Starter Box ABJ, Nov, 1995 "Bumble Beekeeping: Introducing Queens to Nest in Captivity" ABJ, Jan,1996 "Bumble Beekeeping: Handling Mature Colonies, Mating Queens" ABJ, Feb, 1996 The American Bee Journal, 51S. 2nd St., Hamilton, IL 62341 217-847-3324 Pollinator@aol.com Dave and Janice Green, PO Box 1200, Hemingway, SC 29554 Practical Pollination Home Page http://users.aol.com/pollinator/polpage1.html ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 10 May 1996 00:56:32 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Michael Lance High Sr." Subject: Re: What are the finest (and worst) honeys? Comments: To: "Dave Green, Eastern Pollinator Newsletter" In-Reply-To: <960509101850_531537075@emout08.mail.aol.com> Well Dave,heres my 2 cents worth........ The undisputed king of honeys (at least for me,here in Va.) is Sourwood. I agree there are many questionable "pedigrees" of it out there, but the real McCoy is THE best. Apple blossom run a close second. I got almost a whole super last year that the bees overlooked. It was heaven! I hoard it like a miser. Tupelo is'nt native here but I've had it and like it very well also. The tulip poplar is the main honeyflow here and I must agree that it is'nt anything to write home about.Still its better than the absolute worst honey.......Store bought so-called "pure clover honey" if there was a generic taste in honey, this is it.Those who have never tasted any other are shocked to find so many different tastes. I think you have a very worthwhile endevour here, so many people think honey only comes in the one flavor,store bought.This is a project worth all of us considering on a limited basis in our areas.I know the honey exhibit at the Va. state fair has tasting varieties and the booth is always mobbed. ML High "I take my chances,I don't mind working without a net, I take my chances,I take my chances every chance I get" Mary Chapin Carpenter ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 10 May 1996 02:46:59 -0300 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Stan Sandler Subject: soap,ants,borax,Joel's marriage >On Wed, 8 May 1996, Adrian Wenner wrote: > > >> Actually, soapy water does just fine, with about a quarter cup of >> kitchen detergent in a half a bucket of water..... (re: ants,yellow jackets) Roy Nettlebeck: > Hi Adrian , Your post was very timely for me.I was stacking up some deep >boxs for some painting and I came across a couple of boxs that had the >red headed ants in them. I mixed up some soapy water and did add a little >borax and put it in a sprayer. It worked great.... Hi Roy, Adrian, Joel and all: Roy's post raises something I am most curious about. I would have been a little worried to use borax in the boxes. It is toxic to the ants, and I wonder about the bees? Does anyone know about this, because I mix it with syrup to bait ants in the blueberry fields and although I cover the bait I am always a little concerned that wind or something else will uncover it and expose it to the bees. If a little can destroy an anthill, maybe it can do in a hive. Wonderful stuff, this borax is: Kills ants in a fairly environmentally benign way (though soap is even better, I'll try that IF I know where the nests are!); Cures hollow heart in turnips; is a necessary soil nutrient for alfalfa; and takes propolis out of Joel's families clothes thus furthering marital harmony! Regards Stan ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 10 May 1996 21:47:53 +1300 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Peter Bray Subject: Re: What are the finest (and worst) honeys? At 04:30 PM 5/9/96 +0500, Conrad Sigona wrote: > >I believe what you're speaking of is tannen honig (fir tree honey), which would explain >its turpentine taste. In Germany, its quite expensive compared to regular honey. >As I recall, it isn't a honey gathered by bees but a substance extracted by boiling. >I might be wrong about that, so perhaps some German friend of the bee list will >set me straight. > Tannen Honnig is a honeydew, i.e. collected by honeybees from the host plant via an intermediate sap sucking insect, eg aphids, scale insects. Germany is the largest consumer of honeydew honeys with many coming from all over Europe. Sources include Encina (oak), chestnut, Pine, fir (both red and white). Countries include France, Spain, Italy, Hungary, Poland, Turkey and New Zealand - plus others. Generally these are marketed as "Wald Honig" (forest honey) but often as their particular species as in the case of tannen honnig. Peter Bray Airborne Honey Ltd. p.bray@netaccess.co.nz ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 10 May 1996 07:20:09 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Garrett Dodds Subject: Re: Honeybees in the news. Ohio also had a story on the news this week about the mite problem and the lack of bees to polinate them. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 10 May 1996 09:48:24 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Joe Latshaw Subject: Re: Honeybees in the news. Garrett, I hear it was a very well presented clip on tracheal and varroa mites. It was filmed at the Ohio State University honey bee lab. Sue's colony's appeared to be doing great so far this season! Maybe it is partly due to good management and excellent help. Joe ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 10 May 1996 14:50:09 GMT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Eric Abell Subject: Re: Propolis on your CLOTHES! >Okay, then - what's the best way to get propolis out of clothing? I have >ruined some of my wife's garments over the years because bits of propolis >or wax got on them in the washer (even tiny bits) and when they went into >the dryer it warmed up and got into the fabric. This has not helped our >relationship(!) I've tried rubbing alcohol which seems to dissolve it >somewhat but then it tends to just "spread out." So far that hasn't proved >reliable. I realize all fabrics need different stain treatments, but would >appreciate ANY ideas along these lines. Everyone else, pay attention to >any replies - it may save you some grief! Thanks, J. > It has been my experience that it is almost impossible to remove propolis from clothing. I used to wash and dry covealls and ruin my wife's clothing occassionally. Then I switched to a wash and hang routine and have not had any problems. I simply hang coveralls to dry. If they do not dry fast enough for you to wear then buy more coveralls. Eric Abell Gibbons, Alberta Canada (403) 998 3143 eabell@compusmart.ab.ca ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 10 May 1996 09:18:47 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Joel Govostes Subject: Re: Propolis on your CLOTHES! >It has been my experience that it is almost impossible to remove propolis >from clothing. I used to wash and dry covealls and ruin my wife's clothing >occassionally. Then I switched to a wash and hang routine and have not had >any problems. I simply hang coveralls to dry. If they do not dry fast >enough for you to wear then buy more coveralls. > >Eric Abell Yup - this is what i ended up doing; which is fine, but i know eventually it will get on something else. I'll get some borax in the meantime. Thanks Eric. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 10 May 1996 08:13:16 PDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Adrian Wenner Subject: Re: ant disaster Roy Nettlebeck wrote (in response to my suggestion to use soapy water for ant control): >I was stacking up some deep >boxs for some painting and I came across a couple of boxs that had the >red headed ants in them. I mixed up some soapy water and did add a little >borax and put it in a sprayer. It worked great. They were runing all over >the boxes and I just kept spraying them. I went back out in about an hour >and found some under a cover. So I sprayed them also. They just curl up >and die and we don't have to mess up our environment. Thanks for the >great info. Worked like a charm. Just wait until late summer when you are plagued by yellow jacket wasps at the picnic table --- you can have quite a bit of fun (target practice) with a spray bottle set on stream! Watch out, though, if you are too near their nest. Adrian *************************************************************** * Adrian Wenner E-Mail wenner@lifesci.lscf.ucsb.edu * * Dept.Ecol.,Evol.,& Mar.Biol. Office Phone (805) 893-2838 * * University of California Lab Phone (805) 893-2675 * * Santa Barbara, CA 93106 FAX (805) 893-8062 * * * * "Once a structurally complete and closed system of opinions * *consisting of many details and relations has been formed, it * *offers enduring resistance to anything that contradicts it." * * Ludwik Fleck, 1935 [1979] * *************************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 10 May 1996 08:41:07 PDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Adrian Wenner Subject: Re: Propolis on your CLOTHES! >>It has been my experience that it is almost impossible to remove propolis >>from clothing. I used to wash and dry covealls and ruin my wife's clothing >>occassionally. Then I switched to a wash and hang routine and have not had >>any problems. I simply hang coveralls to dry. If they do not dry fast >>enough for you to wear then buy more coveralls. According to my chemical handbook, propolis is completely dissolvable in ethyl alcohol --- and I have found that to be true. It should not be too hard to find denatured alcohol, the higher the concentration, the better. For bad stains of various kinds, I soak the material in BIZ solution (commercial laundry pre-soak and bleach available in grocery stores) overnight in a bucket, wring (or spin out) the solution the next day, and then put it through a general wash cycle. BIZ has even taken out India ink. Adrian *************************************************************** * Adrian Wenner E-Mail wenner@lifesci.lscf.ucsb.edu * * Dept.Ecol.,Evol.,& Mar.Biol. Office Phone (805) 893-2838 * * University of California Lab Phone (805) 893-2675 * * Santa Barbara, CA 93106 FAX (805) 893-8062 * * * * "Once a structurally complete and closed system of opinions * *consisting of many details and relations has been formed, it * *offers enduring resistance to anything that contradicts it." * * Ludwik Fleck, 1935 [1979] * *************************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 10 May 1996 08:53:24 PDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Adrian Wenner Subject: Re: What are the finest (and worst) honeys? > My wife and I are enjoying (and packing) some of the eastern US varietal >honeys, and are more and more interested in doing gift packs of these. We >also are thinking of doing honey tasting parties, like the wine folks do. > > My question is: Outside of eastern USA, I'm sure there are many fine >honeys (and maybe some awful ones too), and I'd like to hear from some of the >beekeepers on what they consider the finest and worst of their area. Who >knows, maybe we'd be interested in buying some of these? I have had honey from many parts of the world but still consider pure yellow star thistle (Centaurea solstitialis) the best (what honey should be!). The year 1993 had the best crop on record in northern California. Large ranches can have vast areas of the weed. If the last rains of the season come as late as May, the plants can produce an abundant crop in September, when almost all other plants have dried up in our seasonal drought. When pure, yellow star thistle honey has a rich yellow color with a greenish cast to it when poured, is quite thick, and has no sharp or bitter component. The Hill Apiaries [(916) 934-5018; my source] strives to obtain as pure a crop as possible each year. Adrian *************************************************************** * Adrian Wenner E-Mail wenner@lifesci.lscf.ucsb.edu * * Dept.Ecol.,Evol.,& Mar.Biol. Office Phone (805) 893-2838 * * University of California Lab Phone (805) 893-2675 * * Santa Barbara, CA 93106 FAX (805) 893-8062 * * * * "Once a structurally complete and closed system of opinions * *consisting of many details and relations has been formed, it * *offers enduring resistance to anything that contradicts it." * * Ludwik Fleck, 1935 [1979] * *************************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 10 May 1996 17:58:44 +0200 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Rudolf E. Bahr" Subject: Re: What are the finest (and worst) honeys? In-Reply-To: Hello Teri, they do. "Black Forest" honey stems from silver firs, has a dark green colour and yields highest prices ( up to 20 DM/pound ). People in South Germany like it very well. They however can't understand, how one can eat a tasteless, light honey, which is only sweet. Pure rape honey for instance is saleable only in Northern Germany, where people somehow have a different sense of taste. Regards, R.E.Bahr NISI APES FINIS On Thu, 9 May 1996, Teri Rhan wrote: > AS far as worst goes..... > Some friends of mine brought back some "Black Forest" honey from Germany > from Black Forest pines.......blechhh! I swear it was mixed with > turpentine. I accepted it graciously but.... > I'm glad they don't read this group. > > Teri > (in cloudy Seattle) > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 10 May 1996 12:08:52 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: - Ed Levi Subject: Re: BumbleBee It is said in England that bumblebee populations are directly related to the population density of old maids. It seems that bumblebees like mouse nests, cats kill mice and old maids like cats. Not sure how detailed of a study has been done on this slice of ecology. ;-) Ed ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 10 May 1996 19:17:10 +0200 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Rudolf E. Bahr" Subject: Re: What are the finest (and worst) honeys? In-Reply-To: <9605092117.AA0659@newport.ntcnet.com> On Thu, 9 May 1996, Conrad Sigona wrote: > > AS far as worst goes..... > > Some friends of mine brought back some "Black Forest" honey from Germany > > from Black Forest pines.......blechhh! I swear it was mixed with > > turpentine. I accepted it graciously but.... > > I'm glad they don't read this group. > > I believe what you're speaking of is tannen honig (fir tree honey), which would explain its > turpentine taste. In Germany, its quite expensive compared to regular honey. As I recall, > it isn't a honey gathered by bees but a substance extracted by boiling. I might be wrong > about that, so perhaps some German friend of the bee list will set me straight. > Hello Conrad, yes, this honey is called "Tannenhonig" (fir tree honey, especially silver fir tree honey). The "full" pound (500 g) would cost sometimes up to 20 DM = 13 US$. The bees gather the dew from "animal blossoms", two sorts of small animals on the trees, we call them "Lecanien" and "Lachniden", which can often live only in cooperation with forest ants. I never noticed a turpentine taste, but of course we drink that seldom if ever. The other stuff, often called "Tannenspitzenhonig" (fir tips honey) is no honey, but a sort of syrup, made out of young, light green tips of firs boiled in water with plenty of sugar. Regards, R.E.Bahr NISI APES FINIS ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 10 May 1996 11:28:46 -0600 Reply-To: allend@internode.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Allen Dick Organization: The Beekeepers Subject: Re: Propolis on your CLOTHES! > >It has been my experience that it is almost impossible to remove > >propolis from clothing. I used to wash and dry covealls and ruin > >my wife's clothing occassionally. Then I switched to a wash and > >hang routine and have not had any problems. I simply hang > >coveralls to dry. If they do not dry fast enough for you to wear > >then buy more coveralls. > > Yup - this is what i ended up doing; which is fine, but i know > eventually it will get on something else. I'll get some borax in > the meantime. Thanks Eric. We find that spraying with Fantastik (r) will remove (dissolve) most of the propolis when done before normal washing, but it is always hard to get rid of the last bit of stain. Regards Allen W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper VE6CFK RR#1, Swalwell, Alberta Canada T0M 1Y0 Internet:dicka@cuug.ab.ca & allend@internode.net Honey. Bees, & Art ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 10 May 1996 13:27:35 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: RICHARD BARNES Subject: Re: What are the finest (and worst) honeys? Spring Honey in central Oklahoma is a mixture of wild flowers and produces a fine honey. The problem is the honey changes from year to year depending on source plants. My favorate honey is produced from Cotton Blooms. In Southwestern Oklahoma, cotton is abundant in the fall and most of the farmers use dry land techniques to grow. This means no spraying for paracites. With no sparying the bees don't get killed and you don't run the risk of pesticides in the honey. If it will rain, each hive will produce 100 to 150 # of honey from August 1 to Oct. 1. Not bad for 2 months work. The honey is a light amber and carries a mild taste. The cotton will bloom until the first freeze which is sometime in early to middle November ( after October 1 the bloom has decreased to about 10% of the peak in middle August). I extract in October while it is warm enough to sling the honey and the bees still have over 5 weeks of light bloom on the cotton to build up winter stores. Late honey flows also produce excellent quantity of pollen for the bees to store for winter. The problem with cotton honey is 1) finding an area that doesn't spray pesticides and 2) the honey will crystalize in less than one month. I usually have to heat the honey to redissolve prior to selling. Note: I have tasted a difference when heating honey above 120 degrees F to redissolve. I try to stay below 110 deg. F. Richard rbarnes@halnet.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 10 May 1996 17:52:53 +0100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Gordon Scott Subject: Honeybees & varroa on BBC TV. In-Reply-To: ============================================================== Of particular interest to the UK and those within TV coverage! ============================================================== The BBC is devoting (all of, I think) a "Countryfile" program to varroa and their impact on bees and agriculture. There is some confusion about the date (19th or 26th of May), but the programme should run ok. BBC1, 12noon to 12:25 Sunday. Regards, -- Gordon Scott gordon@apis.demon.co.uk gordon@multitone.co.uk (work) The Basingstoke Beekeeper (newsletter) beekeeper@apis.demon.co.uk Embryo Home Page Beekeeper; Kendo 3rd Dan; Sometime sailor. Hampshire, England. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 10 May 1996 15:18:24 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Albert W. Needham" Subject: Re: BumbleBee Re: Mice, Cats & Old Maids. :-)) :-)) To change the subject to "worst & best honeys". I plan to include some of these descriptions in my "BeeWorks" software program, as I think it would add an intertesting facet to it - unless any of you obejct? Unless you wish to be quoted, I think it would be better to just cite them as a variety of descriptions about the different types of honey and their tastes. The way you guys describe them, I almost wish I was at a table sampling - it really sounds like comments from "wine tasters" - interesting. Al Needham Hobbyist Scituate, MA, USA alwine@aol.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 10 May 1996 20:46:58 PDT Reply-To: Glyn Davies Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Glyn Davies Subject: Re: What are the finest (and worst) honeys? ---------------Original Message--------------- Hello Conrad, yes, this honey is called "Tannenhonig" (fir tree honey, especially silver fir tree honey). The "full" pound (500 g) would cost sometimes up to 20 DM = 13 US$. The bees gather the dew from "animal blossoms", two sorts of small animals on the trees, we call them "Lecanien" and "Lachniden", which can often live only in cooperation with forest ants. I never noticed a turpentine taste, but of course we drink that seldom if ever. The other stuff, often called "Tannenspitzenhonig" (fir tips honey) is no honey, but a sort of syrup, made out of young, light green tips of firs boiled in water with plenty of sugar. Regards, R.E.Bahr NISI APES FINIS Dear Bee-liners, I'm afraid this discussion on the best/worst honey is too tempting not to contribute. As far as many here in UK are concerned the finest honey (also indicated in the price)is moorland heather (Calluna vulgaris) honey. This honey has a high protein content which has the effect of not crystallising but forming a thixotropic gel. The honey can only be removed from the combs by scraping or with a press. In the jar, air bubbles cannot rise but remain suspended in the gel giving a beautiful sparkling appearance. The taste and aroma are quite unique and cannot be described. When the heather nectar flow is on (August) the scent of the apiary(Bee-yard) at night is exotic. Several US/Canadian friends inc. some experienced beekeepers admit to its superiority when they have sampled it. The nearest equivalent honey, I'm told, is Manuka honey from New Zealand which is also thixotropic. Both these honeys are also reputed to have strong aphrodisiac qualitiies! Unfortunately they are both expensive and in short supply. The only bad honey is overheated honey. We do not have much "Fir tree honey" in UK. We call it Honeydew honey. I like Rudolph's "Animal blossoms" description. Honeydew here is the sweet, sticky excretion from aphids feeding on the trees. The bees will collect it if there is not much else around. Last summer was very hot here with hoards of aphids on sycamore and lime (Linden/Bass). A real problem if your car was parked underneath! The honey was much darker than usual and has a strong flavour reminiscent of aniseed, or liquorice maybe. (Verbal descriptions of taste are impossible!) Probably there was a high honeydew content. Best wishes to all, Glyn Davies, Ashburton, Devon. UK ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 10 May 1996 17:32:48 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "John E. Taylor III" Subject: Re: soap,ants,borax,Joel's marriage At 02:46 AM 5/10/96 -0300, you wrote: > > Wonderful stuff, this borax is: Kills ants in a fairly >environmentally benign way (though soap is even better, I'll try that IF I >know where the nests are!); Cures hollow heart in turnips; is a necessary >soil nutrient for alfalfa; and takes propolis out of Joel's families >clothes thus furthering marital harmony! > There's a darker side to borax, which is why I've wondered about the "environmentally benign" comments. It's used to "sterilize" soil, so _nothing_ will grow there...places like driveways and the like. Another of these chemicals that's necessary at one level, but deadly at a higher level. Use with care. -- John E. Taylor III (W3ZID) E-Mail: w3zid@voicenet.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 10 May 1996 15:42:19 PDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: John Day Subject: advertising hi everyone, i just put an ad in a local newspaper which read: "bees in your trees? I'll remove them for free! beekeeper john swarm removal ###-####" Phone call number one: "i was just about to buy some ortho chemicals to kill my three hives. i'm moving this weekend and if you want them, come get them." result - three hives, 10 supers total, plus bees - free! phone call number two: "i've got bees in the side of my house for 2 years now. if you can get them, they're yours." i went over, and after removing a piece of siding, cutting out the comb and boxing it all up, i now have a nice strong hive that appears to be somewhat mite tolerant. so, as they say, advertising pays! and, i've still got a week to go on the ad, so there may be more swarms to be had. john santa cruz, california ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 10 May 1996 22:25:21 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Bill Miller Subject: Re: Best and worst honeys I'll confine my thoughts to the honeys of Maryland. When someone asks me what the best honey is, I answer "What are you going to use it for? If you want a strong honey taste, use Tulip Poplar. If you want a light honey taste, use Locust." About the only Maryland honey I don't care for is Buckwheat (far too strong). However, of all the honeys known, my pick for worst honey would be Mountain Laurel. It's poisonous to humans. W. G. Miller Gaithersburg, MD ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 11 May 1996 19:17:54 +1200 Reply-To: nickw@wave.co.nz Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Nick Wallingford Organization: Nat Beekeepers Assn of NZ Subject: Re: What are the finest (and worst) honeys? > finest honey (also indicated in the price)is moorland heather (Calluna > vulgaris) honey. I'd have to agree to some extent with Glen. Ling honey *is* excellent. New Zealand produces some as well, from the central plateau region, near the three volcanoes. Several years back a beekeeper friend gave me a bunch of sections of ling. What luxury! (\ Nick Wallingford {|||8- home nickw@wave.co.nz (/ work nw1@boppoly.ac.nz NZ Beekeeping http://www.wave.co.nz/pages/nickw/nzbkpg.htm ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 11 May 1996 03:09:07 -0600 Reply-To: allend@internode.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Allen Dick Organization: The Beekeepers Subject: Beekeeping Web Pages > I'm corresponding with a friend about what equipment I'm using, and > I stuck a couple of pictures of my hive loader and the very > interesting cradle that we use on the web. > > Visit > > http://www.internode.net/~allend/loader1.jpg This is now: http://www.internode.net/~allend/loader1.htm Irecently made up a page with some info as well as the three pix. I think I may add a few more things, like pictures of my (also unusual) forklift, and any pictures anyone sends me of hive handling equipment (JPEGs and short descriptions please). Those who have interesting equipment, but no scanner, can just mail me a picture and I'll scan it. ( This offer applies to those making their own bee related web page and have no scanner. I'll email back the JPEG(s)). I notice that the number of beekeeping pages has exploded lately, and wonder who has the best list of pointers??? I know mine is getting out of date. It's at: http://www.internode.net/~allend/ I'm sure the list would be interested in knowing where to find good, up-to-date lists of sites to brouse. I know I would. Regards Allen W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper VE6CFK RR#1, Swalwell, Alberta Canada T0M 1Y0 Internet:dicka@cuug.ab.ca & allend@internode.net Honey. Bees, & Art ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 11 May 1996 09:12:16 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Roy Nettlebeck Subject: Re: ant disaster In-Reply-To: > Roy Nettlebeck wrote (in response to my suggestion to use soapy water > for ant control): > > >I was stacking up some deep > >boxs for some painting and I came across a couple of boxs that had the > >red headed ants in them. I mixed up some soapy water and did add a little > >borax and put it in a sprayer. It worked great. They were runing all over > >the boxes and I just kept spraying them. I went back out in about an hour > >and found some under a cover. So I sprayed them also. They just curl up > >and die and we don't have to mess up our environment. Thanks for the > >great info. Worked like a charm. > Page 2 Hi, In the late afternoon yesterday , I went out to paint some more boxs. I found the mother load of ants under a piece of plywood. I made a mistake by not putting the plywood back over the ants , while I was getting the sprayer fixed up.Then my 7 year old wanted to spray the ants and that sounded good to me.The problem came when I was getting bitten by ants that crawled up my legs. I looked down at the ground and there were ants on the ground in about a 20 foot diameter area. Those little buggers really bite.I had ants up to my neck and thats no joke. I had my little helper spraying the ground all over the place. It was in my driveway and we used just soap in a 1 1/2 gallon sprayer.I finished the paint job and my son used up a full sprayer of soapy water on the ants.It was time for a shower and a change of cloths for me. I hope this is the end of the ant problem.Its raining today , I should have soap bubbles forming in my driveway. This season has been less than perfect. Best Regards Roy ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 11 May 1996 12:28:44 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Richard Flanagan Subject: Re[2]: (Fwd) Science project request Comments: To: bee-l@cnsibm.albany.edu. In-Reply-To: In reply to your message of Sat, 11 May 1996 10:35:42 EDT >> >>HEY EVERYBODY! >> >> >>I hope you can take out a couple of minutes to help these two kids out with >>their project. They just need a quick response -- let's help them get an >>"A". HURRY! They have a limited time to get as many responses as possible! >> >> >> >> Subject: science fair >> Hi, our names are Stevie and Amanda. We are in the 5th grade at the >> Phillipston Memorial school, Phillipston, Massachusetts, USA. We are >> doing a science project on the Internet. We want to see how many >> responses we can get back in two weeks. (We are only sending out 2 >> letters). >> >> >> Please respond and then send this letter to anyone you communicate >> with on the Internet. Respond to smc@tiac.net. >> >> >> 1. Where do you live (state and country)? >> 2. From whom did you get this letter? >> >> >> Thank you, >> Stevie and Amanda >> > ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 11 May 1996 12:46:20 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Doug Russell Subject: Re: What are the finest (and worst) honeys? At 10:18 AM 5/9/96 -0400, Dave Green, Eastern Pollinator Newsletter wrote: > My wife and I are enjoying (and packing) some of the eastern US varietal >honeys, and are more and more interested in doing gift packs of these. We >also are thinking of doing honey tasting parties, like the wine folks do. > > My question is: Outside of eastern USA, I'm sure there are many fine >honeys (and maybe some awful ones too), and I'd like to hear from some of the >beekeepers on what they consider the finest and worst of their area. Who >knows, maybe we'd be interested in buying some of these? When my uncle kept bees east of Fayetteville, NC, he would get a huckleberry (similar to blueberries) honey which was a very mild berry flavored, rich blue to light purple in color. City people driving through would buy the honey, but only after he spent a lot of time convincing them that no, he did not add food coloring to the honey. When I had a hive in southern Va, I produced a water-clear, mild flavored honey that I thought was Sourwood. At least it matched the characteristics of Sourwood honey sold along the Blue Ridge Parkway. Since I was a rank beginner at the time, maybe it was actually tupelo honey - as you know, it is sometimes really hard to determine the source of the nectar being brought in, especially when a lot of different plants are blooming at once. Doug Russell mrussel1@ix.netcom.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 11 May 1996 12:46:22 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Doug Russell Subject: Re: soap,ants,borax,Joel's marriage >> Wonderful stuff, this borax is: Kills ants in a fairly >>environmentally benign way (though soap is even better, I'll try that IF I >>know where the nests are!); Cures hollow heart in turnips; is a necessary >>soil nutrient for alfalfa; and takes propolis out of Joel's families >>clothes thus furthering marital harmony! >> > > There's a darker side to borax, which is why I've wondered about the >"environmentally benign" comments. It's used to "sterilize" soil, so >_nothing_ will grow there...places like driveways and the like. Another of >these chemicals that's necessary at one level, but deadly at a higher level. >Use with care. >-- Actually, just the detergent and water should be adequate to reduce the surface tension of most insects' outersurface (exoskeleton?) so that they drown in the water supplied with the detergent. I would be very careful using the detergent on the supers to be sure to flush the supers to remove all the detergent. It could also kill the bees. If you stop getting bubbles while flushing, it is probably clean. Doug Russell mrussel1@ix.netcom.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 11 May 1996 15:53:55 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Albert W. Needham" Subject: "BeeWorks" After spending time on bended knee and threatening to 'sic' the "Big Daddy Drone" on you - you guys are coming thru!! You guys truly have a lot in common with the lobstermen that operate out of my town's harbor (that's a compliment!) I try to respond to each offer with a private e-mail message. If perchance I miss you, it is definitely not an unappreciative gesture on my part! In regards to my message about "Best & Worst Honey" - thanks, not a one of you has objected! I will let you know when BeeWorks is completed and where to find it, etc. Time to completion unknown right now - I think I am about halfway. Al Needham Hobbyist Scituate,MA,USA alwine@aol.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 11 May 1996 16:26:35 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Laura A. Downey" Subject: Comments and suggestions appreciated Two weeks ago, I noticed that one of my hives had built numerous swarm cells. As a result, I created a nuc with the queen cells. Each one of the queen cells was capped. I then placed this nuc above the original hive with a wooden barrier to separate them. I then moved frames around in the original hive to break up the congestion. I made sure to keep the nuc fed with sugar syrup. I made sure the queen was in the original hive. Not only did I find the queen, but I found two queens. Leaving nature to take its course, I left both queens in the original hive. They know better than I which one is to be the survivor. Two weeks later, neither the original hive nor the nuc have any uncapped brood. As such, I am sure it is safe to assume there are no queens in either the original hive nor the nuc. My question is, what happened to all of the queens - the two queens in the original hive - and the numerous queens in the nuc? I would think the odds would be strongly against losing all queens, or am I just being too optimistic? I checked each of the queen cells in the nuc - all were cut open. At the time I noticed the second queen in the original hive, I did notice that only one of the queen cells had been cut open, which I would suppose is safe to assume is where queen number two came from. Was this a mistake from the beginning - creating the nuc with the swarm cells? It certainly didn't seem to do what I set out to accomplish. I am in the process of ordering a new queen for the original hive. I now need to reunite the nuc with the original hive. Do I need to reintroduce them slowly with newspaper in between the nuc and the original hive, or is that only done when two queens are present - one in the nuc and one in the original hive? Any comments and suggestions will be greatly appreciated. Thank you. Laura Downey Anne Arundel Co., Maryland corvi29@smart.net ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 11 May 1996 17:21:20 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: BusyKnight Subject: Re: Comments & suggestions appreciated Laura, You're learning alot about honeybees right now. Take some additional time and make sure you understand what is happening right now. It wouldn't hurt for you to even jot down a few notes (so that you can review them later this fall, once this thing 'plays out'). First of all, I doubt that you need to order a new queen. Based on your description, I'd say you still have at least one queen (you may have more). Do you know if your bees have cast off a swarm (or for that matter, even a secondary swarm)? It sounds like that is a distinct possibility. Some of my answer assumes a couple of things: 1) the wings of the queens were not clipped and 2) the original queen wasn't marked(?). Were the new queens from super- cedure cells or swarm cells? Do you know how to tell the difference? Obviously, the colony was preparing to swarm. The swarming impulse is very hard to stop once its underway. No eggs being present during this time is not unusual. It is normal for egg production to slow down or stop when the colony begins to prepare to swarm. The old queen will cease laying eggs in preparation to fly (assuming her wings weren't clipped). And if they were clipped then one or more of the new virgin queens would depart with the swarm. This is why clipping the wings of a queen doesn't prevent swarming. It should only be considered as a means of marking a queen; not as swarm prevention. It will take the virgin queens up to a week to mate and then another two to four days to begin laying eggs. And eggs are hard to spot (if you're not use to what to look for). Keep in mind just a little bit of sunlight (UV light) can damage them too...so *bee* careful! I'd recommend that you do nothing for a few more days. Give the virgin queen a chance to mate and to begin to start laying eggs. Chances are that a virgin queen was left behind with the parent colony. These new (unmated) queens can sometimes be hard to spot. Also, I'd recommend that you not disturb the hive; sometimes the workers will 'ball' the virgin queen in the process of trying to protect her. Let it play out and check back in two weeks - I'm wagering that you'll find capped brood. During the peak swarming season; you need to get into your hive every 7-10 days to kill swarm cells. This is the only way to stop swarming and retain your large field forger work force so that you can get a really large honey corp from your hive. Two weeks (i.e., 14 days) is too long to go between killing swarm cells for a colony that is 'bent' on swarming. Good Luck, BusyKnight Dallas, TX BusyKnight Dallas, TX busykngt@airmail.net ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 11 May 1996 19:59:05 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Laura A. Downey" Subject: Re: Comments & suggestions appreciated Busyknight, Thanks for the reply! >You're learning alot about honeybees right now. Well, I'll be the first to admit that the bees know a LOT more than I do. I learn something new almost every time I inspect my hives. >First of all, I doubt that you need to order a new queen. >Based on your description, I'd say you still have at >least one queen (you may have more). Do you know if >your bees have cast off a swarm (or for that matter, even >a secondary swarm)? It sounds like that is a distinct >possibility. As far as I can tell, it doesn't appear that a swarm took place. There still appears to be a "healthy" amount of bees in the hive. Is a secondary swarm a smaller swarm? >Some of my answer assumes a couple of things: 1) the >wings of the queens were not clipped and 2) the original >queen wasn't marked(?). Were the new queens from super- >cedure cells or swarm cells? Do you know how to tell the >difference? Obviously, the colony was preparing to swarm. >The swarming impulse is very hard to stop once its underway. I unfortunately took the advice of someone very knowledgeable and did not mark my queens last year. I am sorry I didn't mark them. Once this is over with, I will be practicing with drones, then marking the queens. No, the wings were not clipped. As for the new queen in the original hive, I did notice one swarm cell cut open, so my assumption is that she came from that cell, and quite recently from my last inspection last week. I say quite recently because the other queen cells were capped and still intact. I wonder which the new queen would attack first - the old queen or the swarm cells? >No eggs being present during this time is not unusual. >And eggs are hard to spot (if you're not use to what to >look for). Keep in mind just a little bit of sunlight (UV >light) can damage them too...so *bee* careful! I have seen eggs before and know that it takes a bit of practice to spot them. I'll be sure not to subject them to much sunlight. Thanks for the warning. >I'd recommend that you do nothing for a few more days. Give >the virgin queen a chance to mate and to begin to start laying >eggs. Also, I'd recommend that you not disturb the >hive; sometimes the workers will 'ball' the virgin queen in the >process of trying to protect her. Let it play out and check >back in two weeks - I'm wagering that you'll find capped brood. Once again, thanks for the warning. >During the peak swarming season; you need to get into your hive >every 7-10 days to kill swarm cells. This is the only way to >stop swarming and retain your large field forger work force so >that you can get a really large honey corp from your hive. Two >weeks (i.e., 14 days) is too long to go between killing swarm >cells for a colony that is 'bent' on swarming. I make a point of inspecting my hives once a week during swarm season. (I didn't mention that in my original post.) The two weeks refers to the time from when I first noticed the swarm cells until today. I have been inspecting my hives every week. I noted the very same thing last week and decided that at least another week was needed to see if anything had changed. I will admit that I did have to skip an inspection one week due to minor surgery which kept me off my feet. That is probably why on my last inspection last week I spotted all of the swarm cells _already_ capped. Unfortunately, I haven't been able to convince my husband that he should be a beekeeper too. Thank you for all of the knowledgeable advice. It is always much appreciated. Laura corvi29@smart.net ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 11 May 1996 20:02:05 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Adony Melathopoulos Subject: Re: Bumble bees In-Reply-To: <960509111805_394561207@emout07.mail.aol.com> On Thu, 9 May 1996, Albert W. Needham wrote: > Anyone out there who can point to a book or some literature on bumbles that > may be available thru a public library system? Bumble Bee Economics is a fantastic book written by the Vermont scientist Bernd Heinrich. C.D. Michener's 'The Social Behavior of the Bees : A Comparative Study' also has some good information on the life history patterns of bumble bees. I tried to get a colony of bumble bees going by capturing a queen in March and confining her to a chamber with some wool, a pollen ball (honey and pollen mixed and rolled into a ball), and some honey and water. I tried it twice and failed. What went wrong ? Cheers, Adony ######################################## *** Adony Melathopoulos **************** ***** Center for Pest Management ******* ******** Simon Fraser University ******* *********** Burnaby, British Coumbia *** ************** CANADA ****************** ######################################## 'If men had wings and bore black feathers, few of them would be clever enough to be crows' - Rev. Henry Ward Beecher, mid-1800's e-mail : melathop@sfu.ca tel : (604) 291-4163 ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 12 May 1996 12:36:55 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Vince Coppola Subject: Re: Priming cups for grafting queen cells In-Reply-To: <01BB3DDA.B5C25F80@spr5.ccinet.ab.ca> On Thu, 9 May 1996, Kevin & Ann Christensen wrote: > We don't prime the cups when we graft. However, speaking of saliva, I = > graft with a fine brush and I do lick the brush alot just to staighten = I wonder how you keep them from drying out? I always prime and sometimes even these get dry by the time a frame is done. Maybe I'm too slow. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 12 May 1996 06:39:39 -1000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Walter Patton Subject: Meeting Notice NALO MELI MAY 1996 "THE HONEY BEE" VOLUME 12 NO.2 Quarterly Meeting for the Big Island Beekeeper's Association May 21,1996 7:00 PM Meeting Notice The Big Island Beekeeper's Association ( BIBA ) second quarterly meeting for 1996 will be May 21,1996 at UHH's College of Agriculture at 7:00 PM . Refreshments and door prizes will be offered , along with lots of honeybee talk story and information. Dr. Lorna Tsutsumi will give an update on her County funded research on beekeeping in Hawaii. Walter Patton will have videos taken recently of BIBA member Mike Cummings moving 96 double hives from Hilo area to Kau. If a new slide presentation about instrumental insemination has arrived we will view the slides. Come join us for an evening of beekeeping. Contact President Walter Patton 964-5401 Walter & Elisabeth Patton, 27-703 A Ka' ie'ie Rd., Papaikou HI.,96781 Ph./Fax. 808-964-5401 E-Mail hihoney@ilhawaii Beekeeper and Bed & Breakfast Owner in Hawaii http://www.alohamall.com/hamakua/hihoney.htm http://www.alohamall.com/hamakua/beeware.htm http://www.alohamall.com/hamakua/lamalani.htm ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 12 May 1996 06:43:44 -1000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Walter Patton Subject: W.A.S. to Hawaii COMING TO HAWAII WESTERN APICULTURAL SOCIETY AUGUST 5-9,1996 KONA SURF RESORT AND COUNTRY CLUB Walter & Elisabeth Patton, 27-703 A Ka' ie'ie Rd., Papaikou HI.,96781 Ph./Fax. 808-964-5401 E-Mail hihoney@ilhawaii Beekeeper and Bed & Breakfast Owner in Hawaii http://www.alohamall.com/hamakua/hihoney.htm http://www.alohamall.com/hamakua/beeware.htm http://www.alohamall.com/hamakua/lamalani.htm ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 12 May 1996 10:49:49 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Hunahpu Matamoros Subject: Swarms A hobbyist with one hive(at least it used to be one hive. Now, I either have three potential hives or none), yesterday my bees swarmed. I obviously underestimated my population as the major swarm is now hanging 40 feet up in one of my backyard cedars while I seem to have two more hives full of bees. When I noticed the swarm(s)...one was clustered on the southwest outside of the hive body(2 deeps, 3 shallow) and the other(the BIG one)in the aforementioned inacessible cedar. I rummaged around in the basement until I came up with ten deep sheets of foundation and assembled enough to get another BC. I went through the hive, inspecting almost all 20 of those deep brood combs and could spot no brood(mind you, I was some distracted by the swirling activity around me) but I did spot a couple of unopened queen cells(almost all other cells seemed to be empyty---just a few scattered pollen and honey cells around the outside perimeter and what appeared to be some uncapped fresh nectar) and I tranferred those combs to another BC which I placed elsewhere in the yard. Those of you who responded will remember my story a couple of weeks ago where a friend came over and removed 4 frames of honey from a shallow super I'd foolishly placed below the queen excluder and how I'd panicked at the exposing of brood in such cold weather and closed it back up. As expected, the bees had almost filled the empty space with big sheets of drawn comb. This shallow super was heavy so I knew it contained honey and it seemed also to contain a lot of the most calm bees of the batch. I placed it on a new bottom board,(after I'd removed the comb they'd built and inserted 4 frames with fresh foundation) placed a deep BC over it(the one with at least 2 unopened Queen cells, placed 2 shallow supers on top of that and put the whole thing on my roof. By the time I'd done all this rearranging my smoker had run out of fuel and the bees were becoming increasingly aggressive(managing to score on me many times through my clothing). My original hive, in the original location , now has one less shallow super(2 deeps, excluder, and then 2 shallow). With every hive body except that very heavy one, I've alternated fresh foundation with old frames(old on outside edge, then fresh comb, then old, bee populated comb, then fresh etc. etc.). My concern is that my only functioning Queen in in the centre of that inacessible swarm and that the other two hives don't have the material resources(honey/brood) to renew themselves. Not knowing what a swarm box looks like I took a couple of large cardboard boxes and, after making an entrance hole, set one flush on top of the old hive and one on top of the rabbit hutch next to it(i also placed a comb of honey in each, hoping to attract the swarm). That was all yesterday and today, that big swarm is still in the cedar. Since the vast majority of the honey stores seem to be gone from my hives, is it likely the final few thousand bees from each will join the swarm and they'll all live out the balance of the season hanging in their sheltered living alcove high in that tree where I cannot get at them? The possibility that the swarm is NOT my bees, exists(but seems unlikely to me as how else do we account for the missing stores). Another interesting point to me is the shape of the swarm. It looks just like a Queen cell(is that to attract a fertilized queen as she is programmed to seek out and destroy other queens by entering their cells?). The comb the bees used to fill the empty space caused by removing those 4 frames from the shallow super also appears to be in the shape of a Queen cell(I'm wondering about the pattern--a fat icicle--) Any advice or comments welcome. ...Stuart Point Roberts, Wa. PS As soon as I can get ahold of some more shallow supers and one more deep BC, I'll install them. ********************************************************************** Though argument does not create conviction, lack of it destroys belief. What seems to be proved may not be embraced; but what no one shows the ability to defend is quickly abandoned. Rational argument does not create belief, but it maintains a climate in which belief may flourish. (Austin Farrer on C. S. Lewis.) ********************************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 12 May 1996 11:54:57 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Kevin & Ann Christensen Subject: Re: Priming cups for grafting queen cells ------ =_NextPart_000_01BB3FF9.F744ABE0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable ---------- From: Vince Coppola[SMTP:vcoppola@epix.net] Sent: Sunday, May 12, 1996 10:36 AM To: Multiple recipients of list BEE-L Subject: Re: Priming cups for grafting queen cells On Thu, 9 May 1996, Kevin & Ann Christensen wrote: > We don't prime the cups when we graft. However, speaking of saliva, I = =3D > graft with a fine brush and I do lick the brush alot just to staighten = =3D I wonder how you keep them from drying out? I always prime and sometimes even these get dry by the time a frame is done. Maybe I'm too = slow. Hi Vince , We throw alot of water on the floor and keep the heat up to increase the = humidity in the grafting room. Also, as I graft, I keep the frame of = grafted cups under a damp towel. Even the cups that are waiting to be = grafted into are kept under a damp towel. As we walk the graft out to = the cell builder, it is kept under the towel. This also keeps the graft = out of the other elements like snow. 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However, speaking of saliva, I = > > graft with a fine brush and I do lick the brush alot just to staighten = > > I wonder how you keep them from drying out? I always prime and > sometimes even these get dry by the time a frame is done. Maybe I'm too slow. > Hi Vince and All, I guess I'm slow to Vince.I prime my cups and I think it is easier on the larva. I buy a 2 oz. bottle of Royal jelly for about $6 and it comes frozen. I keep it in the freezer and only take out a little at a time that I will need to graft , for that day.Mix about 1/2 water with it and away I go. Good Luck Roy ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 12 May 1996 18:32:45 +0000 Reply-To: James.Peterson.2@m.k12.ut.us Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: James Peterson Organization: UtahLink Subject: permadent Please Email me privately where to buy "permadent" at a realistic price. A little plastic and bee's wax costs over a $1.00 US. I think someone is trying to make a large profite. Along with the oil companies. James Peterson james.peterson.2@m.k12.ut.us ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 12 May 1996 22:11:39 -0300 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Eunice D. Wonnacott" Subject: Re: Re[2]: (Fwd) Science project request >>> >>>HEY EVERYBODY! >>> >>> >>>I hope you can take out a couple of minutes to help these two kids out with >>>their project. They just need a quick response -- let's help them get an >>>"A". HURRY! They have a limited time to get as many responses as possible! >>> >>> >>> >>> Subject: science fair >>> Hi, our names are Stevie and Amanda. We are in the 5th grade at the >>> Phillipston Memorial school, Phillipston, Massachusetts, USA. We are >>> doing a science project on the Internet. We want to see how many >>> responses we can get back in two weeks. (We are only sending out 2 >>> letters). >>> >>> >>> Please respond and then send this letter to anyone you communicate >>> with on the Internet. Respond to smc@tiac.net. >>> >>> >>> 1. Where do you live (state and country)? >>> 2. From whom did you get this letter? >>> >>> >>> Thank you, >>> Stevie and Amanda >>> >> > Hi! I live in Prince Edward Island, Canada Received this letter from "Stevie and Amanda"> ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 12 May 1996 15:58:49 GMT Reply-To: Tim_Sterrett@westtown.edu Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Tim Sterrett Organization: Westtown School Subject: The finest honey The finest honey in the world is the honey from my hives. And the finest of my honey is the golden liquid that flowed into that first jar many years ago. Tim Sterrett Westtown, (Southeastern) Pennsylvania, USA tim_sterrett@westtown.edu (Come on, somebody had to say it!) ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 13 May 1996 14:20:34 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "David. E. Goble" Subject: Re: Priming cups for grafting queen cells >Laidlaw suggests using diluted royal jelly to prime queen cell cups for >grafting larvae. Under the conditions I have of temperature and >humidity, it seems desirable to prime the cups but I don't have royal jelly. > >Any suggestions? I don't know what is isosmotic for the larvae. With my >last graft I tried diluting some of the honey from the open cells at the >top of the bar I was using to graft from. I'll see how those grafts were >accepted tomorrow. > >Anyone tried saliva for priming the cups? I've used saliva as a viscous >medium to mount termite gut protozoa for viewing with a microscope, but I >haven't tried it for other protozoa. I suppose to get an answer with >respect to the bee larvae, I should "ask the larvae" but I thought I see >what others have done to prime cups for grafting. > >Looks like a good poplar flow here at Canton, GA about 40 mi N of >Atlanta. This is nice compared to last spring when, for the first time >in 15 years, there was NO poplar flow! I'm running 25 "modified >Tanzanian Topbar Hives"...bees are happy...life is good. > >Hope you have a good year. > >Cordially yours, > >Jim > > -------------------------------------------------------------- > | James D. Satterfield | E-Mail: jsatt@gsu.edu | > | P.O. Box 2243 ------------------------------ > | Decatur, GA 30031, USA 258 Ridge Pine Drive | > | S.E. United States or Canton, GA 30114, USA | > | Telephone (404) 378-8917 Telephone (770) 479-4784 | > -------------------------------------------------------------- > Hi James, As you prepare the cups for grafting place them into a hive for the hive temperature to warm them to an even temp, or they can be placed into a microbiology culture incubator. Then when the larvae are removed to graft, the cells that you destroy as you prepare to transfer the larvae into the cup, will have royal jelly in the bottom of each cell. Place this in the cup before the larvae is place in it, they can be then used as queen cells, or the double graft method as explained by Laidlaw can be used, however there is no real difference, in the years that I have spent grafting have found no advantage of double grafts except the experience of doing it. Thanks from : goble@eastend.com.au http://www.eastend.com.au/~goble degob1@mugc.cc.monash.ed.au ( David Goble ) American Beach Kangaroo Island South Australia ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 12 May 1996 21:04:54 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Michael Moroney Subject: Re: When so swarm queens leave? In-Reply-To: < I believe the swarm leaves after the queen cells are sealed but before they hatch. -Mike ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 10 May 1996 05:38:56 +0100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Hugo Veerkamp Organization: Stichting InterWorld Subject: propolis allergy...(thread changed) > I seem to be > developing an alergy to it. It doesn't bother me to > chew it, same here > but if I touch > my face after handling frames it starts to itch and if > I have touched close > to my eyes then they burn. Anybody else have problems > like this? Can't remember touching close to the eyes with propolis on fingers, but I do remember geting a reddish rash,(itching quite a lot) on the inside wrist, where the skin is rather thin. It usually disappears quite quickly, so I never worried about it too much. sincerely, Hugo -- Hugo Veerkamp #o# --------------------------------------------------------#o# | BEENET INTERNATIONAL | | Email: | mail : the Bee bbs | | hug.bee@beenet.iwg.nl | P.O. BOX 51008 | | | 1007EA AMSTERDAM | | | The Netherlands | | Beenet : 240:31/0 | modem: +31 20 6764105 | | Fidonet: 2:2801/28 | voice: +31 20 6715663 | #o# --------------------------------------------------------#o# > Have a nice day Stan > --- Platinum Xpress/Wildcat! v1.2j > * Origin: Internet Amigabee +44 81 695 5328 (2:254/ > 215@fidonet) ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 13 May 1996 14:37:24 GMT+02 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Christian Schulte AG Kluge Organization: Technical University Darmstadt Subject: Honey in the comb Hallo! Does anyone know a practical system to win honey-in-the-comb? I don't want to cut the comb but I am looking for (plastic-?) frames that can easily be covered for selling after harvesting. Thank you for helping and Viele Gruesse Christian ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 13 May 1996 14:33:54 GMT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Eric Abell Subject: Re: Propolis on your CLOTHES! At 09:18 AM 5/10/96 -0500, you wrote: >>It has been my experience that it is almost impossible to remove propolis >>from clothing. I used to wash and dry covealls and ruin my wife's clothing >>occassionally. Then I switched to a wash and hang routine and have not had >>any problems. I simply hang coveralls to dry. If they do not dry fast >>enough for you to wear then buy more coveralls. >> >>Eric Abell > >Yup - this is what i ended up doing; which is fine, but i know eventually >it will get on something else. I'll get some borax in the meantime. >Thanks Eric. > I found that when I was putting coveralls in the dryer it would indeed eventually get on something else. Throw in old jeans and they would be safe but if my wife was to dry a precious blouse ....... you get the idea. Since I have been merely washing and hanging to dry the only problem is that there is often a collection of insect parts in the 'stuff' trap in the washer and I get scolded. This is no bigger a deal than finding a penny in the washer and nothing is damaged. Any alternate suggestion is to work your bees in your birthday suit and you will have no propolis in the washing machine. Eric Eric Abell Gibbons, Alberta Canada (403) 998 3143 eabell@compusmart.ab.ca ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 13 May 1996 10:54:41 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Dave Green, Eastern Pollinator Newsletter" Subject: Re: Honey in the comb In a message dated 96-05-13 09:27:10 EDT, SCHULTEC@BIO1.bio.TH-Darmstadt.de (Christian Schulte AG Kluge) writes: >Subj: Honey in the comb >Date: 96-05-13 09:27:10 EDT >Hallo! > >Does anyone know a practical system to win honey-in-the-comb? I >don't want to cut the comb but I am looking for (plastic-?) frames >that can easily be covered for selling after harvesting. > >Thank you for helping and Dadant and Sons, Inc,. 51 South 2nd St Hamilton, Illinois 62341-1399 USA 217-847-3324 offers three different ways of making comb sections. They have round 8 oz plastic, square 16 oz wooden, and 12 oz plastic cassettes. You can get a catalog from them. Another supplier for the first two would be Walter Kelly Co. 3107 Elizabethtown Rd. PO Box 240, Clarkson, KY 42726-0240 USA 800-233-2899 (A free call in the US; I don't know if it is for you) Personally I have abandoned all section comb production, and do not even use comb honey foundation. I place empty frames between two good frames of comb, and the bees make beautiful frames of comb honey, which I cut and place into wide-mouth jars. Fill the rest with liquid honey, and you have a lovely pack, which sells well, at least in this area. Pollinator@aol.com Dave and Janice Green, PO Box 1200, Hemingway, SC 29554 Practical Pollination Home Page http://users.aol.com/pollinator/polpage1.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 13 May 1996 11:36:07 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: David Eyre Subject: Re: Priming cups for grafting queen cells insulate our cell builders and queen mothers. > >Kevin Christensen >Attachment Converted: C:\MUSK-NET\EUDORA\RECEIVE\RePrimin Hi Kevin, I don't want to be picky, but it is considered extreme bad manners to send a file to anybodies hard drive without being invited. You could be accused of virus transmission, plus other. Please desist!! **************************************************** * David Eyre 9 Progress Drive, Unit 2, * * The Beeworks, Orillia, Ontario, L3V 6H1. * * beeworks@muskoka.net 705-326-7171 * * http://www.muskoka.net/~beeworks * * Agents for: E H Thorne & B J Sherriff UK. * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 13 May 1996 11:36:34 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: David Eyre Subject: Re: Comments & suggestions appreciated >busykngt@airmail.net Sat, 11 May 1996 wrote >week to mate and then another two to four days to begin laying >eggs. And eggs are hard to spot (if you're not use to what to >look for). Keep in mind just a little bit of sunlight (UV >light) can damage them too...so *bee* careful! While I agree with all the other points, could I get some justification for the point about UV damage. Or could it be the drying out of eggs exposed to daylight? **************************************************** * David Eyre 9 Progress Drive, Unit 2, * * The Beeworks, Orillia, Ontario, L3V 6H1. * * beeworks@muskoka.net 705-326-7171 * * http://www.muskoka.net/~beeworks * * Agents for: E H Thorne & B J Sherriff UK. * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 13 May 1996 10:01:21 CDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ray Nabors Subject: Re[4]: (Fwd) Science project request Hi, My name is Ray I am a beekeeper and also University of Mo. Apiculture specialist. Good Luck! ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Re: Re[2]: (Fwd) Science project request Author: Discussion of Bee Biology at internet-ext Date: 5/13/96 3:08 AM >>> >>>HEY EVERYBODY! >>> >>> >>>I hope you can take out a couple of minutes to help these two kids out with >>>their project. They just need a quick response -- let's help them get an >>>"A". HURRY! They have a limited time to get as many responses as possible! >>> >>> >>> >>> Subject: science fair >>> Hi, our names are Stevie and Amanda. We are in the 5th grade at the >>> Phillipston Memorial school, Phillipston, Massachusetts, USA. We are >>> doing a science project on the Internet. We want to see how many >>> responses we can get back in two weeks. (We are only sending out 2 >>> letters). >>> >>> >>> Please respond and then send this letter to anyone you communicate >>> with on the Internet. Respond to smc@tiac.net. >>> >>> >>> 1. Where do you live (state and country)? >>> 2. From whom did you get this letter? >>> >>> >>> Thank you, >>> Stevie and Amanda >>> >> > Hi! I live in Prince Edward Island, Canada Received this letter from "Stevie and Amanda"> ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 13 May 1996 15:18:49 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: David Broman <101602.2771@CompuServe.COM> Subject: nosema two of my four hives are suffering from nosema infestation. Full of brood three weeks ago, they're still full of brood but there are today much less bees than three weeks ago. I noticed yesterday a wax moth trail inside one hive. I had some bodies analysed and the results were very positive for nosema. Yesterday i united both hives and fed them. Question: What should i do now? Just let nature decide or should i give them antibiotics? Or is there any other solution? Thanks for your suggestions david broman luxembourg. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 13 May 1996 16:09:19 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: David Eyre Subject: Re: Honey in the comb >In a message dated 96-05-13 09:27:10 EDT, SCHULTEC@BIO1.bio.TH-Darmstadt.de >(Christian Schulte AG Kluge) writes looking for section information. >>Pollinator@aol.com Dave and Janice Green wrote >use comb honey foundation. I place empty frames between two good frames of >comb, and the bees make beautiful frames of comb honey, which I cut and place >into wide-mouth jars. Fill the rest with liquid honey, and you have a lovely >pack, which sells well, at least in this area. I think it might have been easier to give an address in Europe, as that's where the message came from, and with a statement that he didn't want to cut comb. I did in fact send him that information privately. My reason for doing this? We are forgetting the basic ettiquette and not stopping to think before we hit the send button!! PLEASE read headings and the address both incoming and outgoing, it might help to reduce the general background babble! Best Regards to all, keep the faith. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 13 May 1996 13:46:05 +0100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Paul Cronshaw, D.C." Subject: Transporting Swarms to Apiary Bee-listers, It is swarming season in Santa Barbara. I have received 3 calls alone in the past week to remove swarms from various sites around the town. I learned my lesson on the method of transporting one swarm which I would like to share with this list. A local trucking company had a swarm move into its yard and collect on a single branch 15 feet above the ground. Since the swam was right in the midst of trucks and people, the manager wanted them out ASAP. With the use of a fork lift, he lifted me up to the swarm. I cut the branch with the swarm and dumped it into a PLASTIC bag. Forgot to poke some holes in the bag. Big mistake!! ByY the time I got to my apiary (10 minutes traveling time), 1/2 the colony had perished by suffication. I found the queen but she was too far gone so I combined the remaining bees with a new colony I had collected a week before. My question is: 1)What methods are used to transport a swarm back to the apiary? 2)Would a burlap sack work better? Cardboard Box? I am interested in experiences from members of this list. Paul Cronshaw DC Hobby Beekeeper Santa Barbara, CA ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 13 May 1996 13:46:17 +0100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Paul Cronshaw, D.C." Subject: Re: What are the finest (and worst) honeys? Subject: Re: What are the finest (and worst) honeys? > My wife and I are enjoying (and packing) some of the eastern US varietal >honeys, and are more and more interested in doing gift packs of these. We >also are thinking of doing honey tasting parties, like the wine folks do. > > My question is: Outside of eastern USA, I'm sure there are many fine >honeys (and maybe some awful ones too), and I'd like to hear from some of the >beekeepers on what they consider the finest and worst of their area. Who >knows, maybe we'd be interested in buying some of these? In Santa Barbara, CA, the predominent floral species belong to the Chaparral group. Santa Barbara is one of three "Mediterranean" Climates, South Africa and place in Peru are the others, if my memory serves me correctly. My favorite honey comes in June/July from Laurel Sumac, one of the big chaparral honey sources. Very light in color, and a flavor like Button sage or clover. Second on my list is Blue Gum Eucalyptus honey, used to build up a lot of spring colonies for the almond pollination. A little darker but definitely has the "Euc" taste. My Dislike candidate is Avocado honey, strong tasting like molassis. Oh yes another dislike is Fermented Honey. Paul Cronshaw DC Hobby Beekeeper Santa Barbara, CA ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 13 May 1996 16:37:54 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Joel Govostes Subject: Re: Transporting Swarms to Apiary >1)What methods are used to transport a swarm back to the apiary? > 2)Would a burlap sack work better? Cardboard Box? Cardboard box, burlap sack; and old pillow case works fine. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 13 May 1996 23:27:13 PDT Reply-To: Glyn Davies Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: RFC822 error: TO field duplicated. Last occurrence was retained. From: Glyn Davies Subject: Re: Transporting Swarms to Apiary ---------------Original Message--------------- Bee-listers, It is swarming season in Santa Barbara. I have received 3 calls alone in the past week to remove swarms from various sites around the town. I learned my lesson on the method of transporting one swarm which I would like to share with this list. A local trucking company had a swarm move into its yard and collect on a single branch 15 feet above the ground. Since the swam was right in the midst of trucks and people, the manager wanted them out ASAP. With the use of a fork lift, he lifted me up to the swarm. I cut the branch with the swarm and dumped it into a PLASTIC bag. Forgot to poke some holes in the bag. Big mistake!! ByY the time I got to my apiary (10 minutes traveling time), 1/2 the colony had perished by suffication. I found the queen but she was too far gone so I combined the remaining bees with a new colony I had collected a week before. My question is: 1)What methods are used to transport a swarm back to the apiary? 2)Would a burlap sack work better? Cardboard Box? I am interested in experiences from members of this list. Paul Cronshaw DC Hobby Beekeeper Santa Barbara, CA A cardboard box wrapped in an old bed sheet, (on which I place the box + swarm while the stragglers join the main crowd). Plastic bins or bags are always bad for swarms. No air, no heat escape,and condensation of moisture inside. Also, plastic always carries static charges which make bees very upset. Glyn Davies, Ashburton, Devon. UK ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 13 May 1996 20:36:36 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Dennis Cain Subject: Re: Transporting Swarms to Apiary Paul: I used to drop the swarm into a wedge shaped screen basket (12x18' and 15' deep) mounted on a pole and carry the swarm aside and lay the basket on a board in front of an empty hive. They'd usually go in but sometimes you'd have to encourage them with a feather/brush. At nite, close the hive and take it home. Dennis Cain dfcain@erols.com At 01:46 PM 5/13/96 +0100, you wrote: >Bee-listers, > >It is swarming season in Santa Barbara. I have received 3 calls alone in >the past week to remove swarms from various sites around the town. > >I learned my lesson on the method of transporting one swarm which I would >like to share with this list. > >A local trucking company had a swarm move into its yard and collect on a >single branch 15 feet above the ground. Since the swam was right in the >midst of trucks and people, the manager wanted them out ASAP. > >With the use of a fork lift, he lifted me up to the swarm. I cut the >branch with the swarm and dumped it into a PLASTIC bag. Forgot to poke some >holes in the bag. Big mistake!! ByY the time I got to my apiary (10 >minutes traveling time), 1/2 the colony had perished by suffication. I >found the queen but she was too far gone so I combined the remaining bees >with a new colony I had collected a week before. > >My question is: > >1)What methods are used to transport a swarm back to the apiary? >2)Would a burlap sack work better? Cardboard Box? > >I am interested in experiences from members of this list. > >Paul Cronshaw DC >Hobby Beekeeper >Santa Barbara, CA > > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 13 May 1996 21:31:03 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Albert W. Needham" Subject: Re: Propolis on your CLOTHES! That seems like fun - especially if you have another party present to whom you are attracted - could cause a slight problem with some irritated bees about! Al Needham Scituate, MA,USA alwine@aol.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 May 1996 12:47:03 GMT+1200 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Nick Wallingford Organization: Bay of Plenty Polytechnic Subject: Honey flavours... As part of the overall marketing strategy in New Zealand, we have tried to increase the overall awareness of honey (particularly as a food ingredient) as well as trying to reposition honey in the scheme of things. That is, we're trying to increase value of select sources, etc, by dealing with them more like fine wines. We've even organised tastings by wine people to try to get some of their vocabulary included into our descriptions. We're trying to get comsumers to *value* honey more, moving it away from just another spread, competing with jams, and into the 'something really special and unique' category. If you have a tables-capable WWW browser, you can see a table of some of the descriptions of NZ sources that we have gotten from 'outside' the industry, ways of describing our honeys that make them that little bit extra in the eyes of the customer. You can find the page at: http://www.wave.co.nz/pages/nickw/honey.htm Then again, you might just get a laugh at the pretensions of it all! I must admit, some of the words seem awfully precious to me... ------------------------------------------ Nick Wallingford President - National Beekeepers Assn of NZ NZ beekeeping: http://www.wave.co.nz/pages/nickw/nzbkpg.htm work nw1@boppoly.ac.nz home nickw@wave.co.nz ------------------------------------------ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 13 May 1996 22:13:23 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Bill Miller Subject: Re: Transporting Swarms to Apiary The best thing I ever found for transposting swarms is the cardboard box that photocopy paper comes in. An unlimited free supply can be had at most large companies. Using one, I just caught, transported, and hived a very nice swarm - all in the middle of a pouring rain. The box held up well. W. G. Miller Gaithersburg MD ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 May 1996 10:12:34 +0800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Nik Mohamed Abdulmajid Subject: Re: Transporting Swarms to Apiary In-Reply-To: On Mon, 13 May 1996, Paul Cronshaw, D.C. wrote: > My question is: > > 1)What methods are used to transport a swarm back to the apiary? > 2)Would a burlap sack work better? Cardboard Box? > > I am interested in experiences from members of this list. > > Paul Cronshaw DC > Hobby Beekeeper > Santa Barbara, CA > I always use *swarm net* and it always work well. Nik Mohamed nmdmajid@mardi.my ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 13 May 1996 17:08:20 -1000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Walter Patton Subject: Swarms >To: paulc@silcom.com >From: hihoney@ilhawaii.net (Walter Patton) >Subject: Swarms > >Swarms are easy forget about anything except a cardboard box > ( Weight is a big factor as you find yourself perched in odd > places trying to fetch a swarm . I brought one home today. > > Try to get /make yourself a good swarm box and set it up > with movable frames so you can easily move the bees into > a regulation hive back home. I suggest doing all your bee >work in mid size supers as deep hive bodies are tooo heavy >for this oldtimer trying to take my time and get it all later in life. > > Be sure and provide good ventalation with screen panels in > top and sides. Sometimes you need to be able to cover the > ventalation holes tocause the bees to find the little entrance > built into one end down low. I bought some cardboard nuc > box/swarm boxes several years ago from Michigan they are > set up to hold five deep frames and the top is removable a >dream for picking up swarms. I would sell you one for > $15.00 plus postage. Swarms are very docile as they > have no hive/home to defend and swarms are the >most highly motovated group of bees available in bee keeping. > >Best of luck ,I've heard it said a"ASwarm in May is worth a load of Hay" > > Walter >A big ditto on the copy paper box great for emergancy captures. Walter & Elisabeth Patton, 27-703 A Ka' ie'ie Rd., Papaikou HI.,96781 Ph./Fax. 808-964-5401 E-Mail hihoney@ilhawaii Beekeeper and Bed & Breakfast Owner in Hawaii http://www.alohamall.com/hamakua/hihoney.htm http://www.alohamall.com/hamakua/beeware.htm http://www.alohamall.com/hamakua/lamalani.htm ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 May 1996 00:00:32 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Dave Green, Eastern Pollinator Newsletter" Subject: Re: Honey in the comb In a message dated 96-05-13 16:12:31 EDT, beeworks@muskoka.net (David Eyre) writes: >I think it might have been easier to give an address in Europe, as that's >where the message came from, and with a statement that he didn't want to cut >comb. I did in fact send him that information privately. My reason for doing >this? We are forgetting the basic ettiquette and not stopping to think >before we hit the send button!! > PLEASE read headings and the address both incoming and outgoing, it >might help to reduce the general background babble! > Best Regards to all, keep the faith. Well, I didn't know any suppliers in Europe, but did give the ones I knew. I'm sure Dadant and Kelly are willing to ship anywhere. If there are suppliers in Europe, then someone who knows them may well supply them. I have no problem with that. So excuuuse me! I did, in fact, answer his basic question, before suggesting a low tech (cheap) alternative that he may not have known about. Don't you think others might also be interested in this? I like the glitz and glamour of high tech stuff, but I survive as a beekeeper by keeping costs down. Pollinator@aol.com Dave and Janice Green, PO Box 1200, Hemingway, SC 29554 Practical Pollination Home Page http://users.aol.com/pollinator/polpage1.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 May 1996 15:40:53 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "David. E. Goble" Subject: Re: Re[2]: (Fwd) Science project request >>> >>>HEY EVERYBODY! >>> >>> >>>I hope you can take out a couple of minutes to help these two kids out with >>>their project. They just need a quick response -- let's help them get an >>>"A". HURRY! They have a limited time to get as many responses as possible! >>> >>> >>> >>> Subject: science fair >>> Hi, our names are Stevie and Amanda. We are in the 5th grade at the >>> Phillipston Memorial school, Phillipston, Massachusetts, USA. We are >>> doing a science project on the Internet. We want to see how many >>> responses we can get back in two weeks. (We are only sending out 2 >>> letters). >>> >>> >>> Please respond and then send this letter to anyone you communicate >>> with on the Internet. Respond to smc@tiac.net. >>> >>> >>> 1. Where do you live (state and country)? >>> 2. From whom did you get this letter? >>> >>> >>> Thank you, >>> Stevie and Amanda >>> > Hi Stevie & Amanda; The staff at Ecology Research Centre on Kangaroo Island. Located in the ocean below the mainland of Australia, send you best wishes for your investigation for your school project. We are on an Island approx, 150 miles by 5 miles wide, it is a general farming Island with many ecology features which creates a lot of tourism, we have parks where you can walk with the seal's, penguin's, koala's and kangaroo's, beside many birds both sea and land based. We are scientists and computer consultants, that use the internet to assist our research into bees, fauna and flora including genetics of all animals. Thanks from : goble@eastend.com.au http://www.eastend.com.au/~goble degob1@mugc.cc.monash.ed.au ( David Goble ) American Beach Kangaroo Island South Australia ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 May 1996 00:00:56 +0100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Paul Cronshaw, D.C." Subject: Re: *swarm net* On Mon, 13 May 1996, Paul Cronshaw, D.C. wrote: >> My question is: >> >> 1)What methods are used to transport a swarm back to the apiary? > >2)Would a burlap sack work better? Cardboard Box? >> >> I am interested in experiences from members of this list. >> >> Paul Cronshaw DC >> Hobby Beekeeper >> Santa Barbara, CA >> >I always use *swarm net* and it always work well. Nik, Please explain a *swarm net*? Thanks. Paul Cronshaw DC Hobby Beekeeper Santa Barbara CA ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 May 1996 08:47:20 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ted Fischer Subject: Re: Nosema REGARDING RE> Nosema David Broman, of Luxembourg, writes: >two of my four hives are suffering from nosema infestation. >Full of brood three weeks ago, they're still full of brood but there are >today much less bees than three weeks ago. I noticed yesterday a wax > moth trail inside one hive. > >I had some bodies analysed and the results were very positive for >nosema. > >Yesterday i united both hives and fed them. > >Question: What should i do now? Just let nature decide or should i give > them antibiotics? Or is there any other solution? Usually it is a good practice to medicate for nosema in the spring. This is especially true when you notice extensive damage to the colony due to this organism. The wax moth damage is secondary, since these moths notice that the colony is stressed and unwilling to tackle a second assault just now. Often, as summer approaches, nosema will clear up spontaneously, but it seems that you need to take action now to preserve a strong healthy colony for the days ahead. Ted Fischer ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 May 1996 11:04:46 -0300 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Stan Sandler Subject: Re: Transporting Swarms to Apiary >I used to drop the swarm into a wedge shaped screen basket (12x18' and 15' >deep) mounted on a pole and carry the swarm aside and lay the basket on a >board in front of an empty hive. They'd usually go in but sometimes you'd >have to encourage them with a feather/brush. At nite, close the hive and >take it home. > >Dennis Cain Do you think Dennis that they will accept the hive better if they go in themselves? In a similar situation I would generally dump the swarm into the hive body, not an empty body, but one with some undrawn foundation if it was available. I do not know which method is better. I have had very few leave, but then that is probably the same with you. Stan Sandler ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 May 1996 07:54:39 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Ken Umbach (kumbach@library.ca.gov)" Subject: 'Science project request': just say NO Comments: cc: smc@tiac.net In-Reply-To: <9604138320.AA832008917@ext.missouri.edu> Folks, this sort of thing is the equivalent of an Internet virus. You would be doing all Internet users a favor NOT to forward any such messages. If such "requests" spread, they will clog the 'net to such a degree that it will be unusable, as a little arithmetic can demonstrate (two to the thirtieth power is 1,073,741,824--a number that explodes if each response is sent to an entire mailing list!). (I'm sorry to be adding my own clutter to this excellent list, but this is an important message to get out.) > >>>I hope you can take out a couple of minutes to help these two kids out with > >>>their project. They just need a quick response -- let's help them get an > >>> Hi, our names are Stevie and Amanda. We are in the 5th grade at the > >>> Phillipston Memorial school, Phillipston, Massachusetts, USA. We are Even if true, it makes no difference. It is 'net clutter, and teachers (if indeed this IS a "science project" and these ARE students) should be advised to nip such intrusions in the bud. It is, however, equally likely that the whole thing is a fabrication designed to replicate and clog the 'net like the infamous "good times virus" hoax--or to innundate the e-mail box at the address given, as a malicious prank, an equally likely possibility. KWU -- ||| (@ @) Ken Umbach ----------------------------------ooOo-( )-oOoo------ California State Library -- California Research Bureau 900 N Street, Suite 300 -- Sacramento, CA 95814 (916-653-6002) Opinions expressed above are NOT to be considered those of my employer. Frankly, I have my doubts that they are even my own. ---------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 May 1996 11:05:40 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "R. C. Chapin" Subject: Winter losses For what it's worth dept.: Quick survey at Susquehanna Beekeepers' Assn. , meeting May 2nd: (serving Susquehanna, Wyoming, Bradford & Lackawanna Counties, NE PA & part of Broome Co., NY Attendance 30 Responses 17 Sizes of colonies 1 - 114 Losses 43% Richard Chapin, Editor of "Susquehanna Buzzer" rchapin@epix.net (\ --------------------------{|||8------------- (/ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 May 1996 07:34:39 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ivan McGill Subject: Re: Honey in the comb >In a message dated 96-05-13 16:12:31 EDT, beeworks@muskoka.net (David Eyre) >writes: > >>I think it might have been easier to give an address in Europe, as that's >>where the message came from, and with a statement that he didn't want to cut >>comb. I did in fact send him that information privately. My reason for doing >>this? We are forgetting the basic ettiquette and not stopping to think >>before we hit the send button!! >> PLEASE read headings and the address both incoming and outgoing, it >>might help to reduce the general background babble! >> Best Regards to all, keep the faith. > > > Well, I didn't know any suppliers in Europe, but did give the ones I >knew. I'm sure Dadant and Kelly are willing to ship anywhere. If there are >suppliers in Europe, then someone who knows them may well supply them. I have >no problem with that. > > So excuuuse me! I did, in fact, answer his basic question, before >suggesting a low tech (cheap) alternative that he may not have known about. > Don't you think others might also be interested in this? I like the >glitz and glamour of high tech stuff, but I survive as a beekeeper by keeping >costs down. > >Pollinator@aol.com Dave and Janice Green, PO Box 1200, Hemingway, SC >29554 > >Practical Pollination Home Page >http://users.aol.com/pollinator/polpage1.html Some times the simpliest way is the best! I use what they call the KISS system. (And I am talking to myself when I use it). KEEP IT SIMPLE STUPID. Low tech or high tech. I have been in beekeeping since 1979 and what ever works I use. If something works for someone else at least give it a try. If it doesn't work, nothing lost. Ivan ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 May 1996 07:34:47 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ivan McGill Subject: Re: Honey in the comb >In a message dated 96-05-13 16:12:31 EDT, beeworks@muskoka.net (David Eyre) >writes: > >>I think it might have been easier to give an address in Europe, as that's >>where the message came from, and with a statement that he didn't want to cut >>comb. I did in fact send him that information privately. My reason for doing >>this? We are forgetting the basic ettiquette and not stopping to think >>before we hit the send button!! >> PLEASE read headings and the address both incoming and outgoing, it >>might help to reduce the general background babble! >> Best Regards to all, keep the faith. > > > Well, I didn't know any suppliers in Europe, but did give the ones I >knew. I'm sure Dadant and Kelly are willing to ship anywhere. If there are >suppliers in Europe, then someone who knows them may well supply them. I have >no problem with that. > > So excuuuse me! I did, in fact, answer his basic question, before >suggesting a low tech (cheap) alternative that he may not have known about. > Don't you think others might also be interested in this? I like the >glitz and glamour of high tech stuff, but I survive as a beekeeper by keeping >costs down. > >Pollinator@aol.com Dave and Janice Green, PO Box 1200, Hemingway, SC >29554 > >Practical Pollination Home Page >http://users.aol.com/pollinator/polpage1.html The use of a empty frame seems to be a good way to get comb honey at the peak of the honey flow. One time a forgot to put a frame back, was in a hurry, the built a good comb from the inner cover down to the next frame. I use what I call the KISS system. (I am only talking to myself when saying it) KEEP IT SIMPLE STUPID. High tech, low tech whatever works I use. Ivan ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 May 1996 09:49:26 CDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ray Nabors Subject: Re[2]: Propolis on your CLOTHES! There is no known cure for propolis! ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Re: Propolis on your CLOTHES! Author: Discussion of Bee Biology at internet-ext Date: 5/13/96 8:26 PM That seems like fun - especially if you have another party present to whom you are attracted - could cause a slight problem with some irritated bees about! Al Needham Scituate, MA,USA alwine@aol.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 May 1996 11:31:25 CDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ray Nabors Subject: Re: nosema Nosema disease in bees is most often transmitted by a contaminated water supply. To cure the infestation I strongly recommend you treat all four of the colonies with fumagillin (Fumadil-B or Nosemex) or another brand. This is a chronic problem. It would be in the best interest of your bees to feed them at leat one quart of sugar water each spring that contains fumagillin. This will cure the disease. The antibiotic should be administered 30 days prior to your honey flow. The Nosema apis organism is found in humid, wetlands all over the Northern hemisphere. If not controlled, it will spread to the hives of other beekeepers in your area. The disease is not common in dry areas. You will find that apiculture experts in dry areas do not recommend treatment. In wet areas with ample rainfall the treatment is likely to be needed every year. ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: nosema Author: Discussion of Bee Biology at internet-ext Date: 5/13/96 2:17 PM two of my four hives are suffering from nosema infestation. Full of brood three weeks ago, they're still full of brood but there are today much less bees than three weeks ago. I noticed yesterday a wax moth trail inside one hive. I had some bodies analysed and the results were very positive for nosema. Yesterday i united both hives and fed them. Question: What should i do now? Just let nature decide or should i give them antibiotics? Or is there any other solution? Thanks for your suggestions david broman luxembourg. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 May 1996 08:49:10 AST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Tom Elliott Subject: Re: Just say no. Not to mention the several people who sent their reply to BEE-L instead of to the address requested. It is, however, equally likely that the whole thing is a fabrication designed to replicate and clog the 'net like the infamous "good times virus" hoax--or to innundate the e-mail box at the address given, as a malicious prank, an equally likely possibility. Tom Elliott Eagle River, Alaska Keeping Bees in the Frozen North ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 May 1996 10:31:53 -0800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jay Jones Subject: Re: 'Science project request': just say NO In-Reply-To: "Your message dated Tue, 14 May 1996 07:54:39 -0700" As a system administrator I whole heartedly support the above. I have sent a gentle note to the students indicating the implications of their open ended request. If meets the characteristics of a chain letter and is equally destructive. My hunch is that that account has already been removed from their providers machine. The reason I am sending this note in support is that we all must be aware of the implications of the notes we send out and those that we forward. Please consider them as you are delaing with the growing lag on the network. Jay Jones hostmaster@ulvacs.ulaverne.edu p.s. It is important to note that we were all at that level once though and gentle education as well as preventative instruction is probably the best course of action. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 May 1996 09:43:14 PDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: John Day Subject: bee go smell anyone know how to get rid of the bee go stink? i used it on a wall and it smells inside too. i think in a few days it will be gone, but is there a way to speed up the process? thanks, john ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 May 1996 19:36:41 +0100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Gordon Scott Subject: Re: Honey in the comb In-Reply-To: On Tue, 14 May 1996, Ivan McGill wrote: > The use of a empty frame seems to be a good way to get comb honey at the > peak of the honey flow. One time a forgot to put a frame back, was in a > hurry, the built a good comb from the inner cover down to the next frame. I alternate a drawn frame and a frame with a narrow (1/2") starter strip. This usually gets the fine comb drawn in the frame instead of at right angles to it, which the bees so often seem to prefer -- perverse creatures, bees. Bees don't much like working sections -- that's one reason why the street price is so high. Regards, -- Gordon Scott gordon@apis.demon.co.uk gordon@multitone.co.uk (work) The Basingstoke Beekeeper (newsletter) beekeeper@apis.demon.co.uk Embryo Home Page Beekeeper; Kendo 3rd Dan; Sometime sailor. Hampshire, England. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 May 1996 18:02:15 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jim Moore DTN276-9448 ogo1/e17 508-496-9448 Subject: Q: Assisting Bees in drawing foundation While thinking about the process my bees are going through to draw the comb in my two new hives I came up with a question. I'm feeding them 1:1 sugar syrup an they are producing the little wax flakes and build the new comb. I understand this is somewhat stressful an may shorten the bees life. Can you supply beeswax flakes instead of the 8:1 conversion of sugar syrup by the bees? ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 May 1996 20:02:16 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "James D. Satterfield" Subject: Saliva-primed Queen Cups Adam, Joel, Roy, Kevin, Nik, and others who have been following the thread on priming queen cell cups for grafting larvae: Alas, my initial optimism has been dashed. I thought that I was getting near 100% acceptance of the cups that I had primed with saliva, but instead I have had 100% rejection. However, I didn't use the same cell-building colony that I had been using. I am using queenless, free-flying colonies to build the cells. If I supply a frame of emerging brood I seem to get good building. On the try using diluted honey, I've gotten 30% acceptance in the colony that I know was queenless...I transferred the queen to another colony...saw her on the comb I transferred. I think the low acceptance is probably due to poor technique using a needle. I have shifted to using a brush as suggested by Kevin. The colony I tried to get to build the saliva-primed cells appeared to be queenless...no brood. I looked through the hive, but I saw no queen nor brood. The hive is a strong colony, is bringing in honey like mad. Perhaps the queen was just taking a rest? :) Anyhow, I'm going to try using saliva one more time, using a 000 brush for transferring larvae, then putting the frame into the hive that I know is queenless and has been giving me a good build. I'll file a report on my results in a few days. I'll have 10 ripe cells tomorrow to make up into mating nucs. I'm going to try some 4.5 inch plastic flower pots as mini nucs. I'll be using three small top bars with a small piece of comb tied to the center bar and a bit of homemade foundation waxed to the two lateral bars. A ripe cell attached to the comb, a cup of bees in each, a pint of 50:50 syrup on top of a roofing felt cover, then...let's see what happens. Dean is responsible for my activities in this direction! :) It's amazing what I've learned from BEE-L. I thank all of you who have sent me suggestions and given me help of any type. It is a pleasure to be associated with all of you. Cordially yours, Jim -------------------------------------------------------------- | James D. Satterfield | E-Mail: jsatt@gsu.edu | | P.O. Box 2243 ------------------------------ | Decatur, GA 30031, USA 258 Ridge Pine Drive | | S.E. United States or Canton, GA 30114, USA | | Telephone (404) 378-8917 Telephone (770) 479-4784 | -------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 May 1996 20:15:38 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Martin Touhey Subject: Re: Re[2]: (Fwd) Science project request I am from Halifax, Massachusetts. Received your letter from the Bee-L ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 May 1996 21:42:15 -0300 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Eunice D. Wonnacott" Subject: Re: 'Science project request': just say NO I hope everyone has seen my apology. I did not originate this,but many messages are going out looking as if I had done so. Is there any way to recall, or cancel this after one has fallen for it? Would it help if I were to unsubscribe the Bee L for a while?? Where would messsages go if the addressee were no longer there?? Anyone who knows how to deal with this, please write me at my inbox Eunice >Folks, this sort of thing is the equivalent of an Internet virus. You >would be doing all Internet users a favor NOT to forward any such >messages. If such "requests" spread, they will clog the 'net to such a >degree that it will be unusable, as a little arithmetic can demonstrate >(two to the thirtieth power is 1,073,741,824--a number that explodes if >each response is sent to an entire mailing list!). (I'm sorry to be >adding my own clutter to this excellent list, but this is an important >message to get out.) > >> >>>I hope you can take out a couple of minutes to help these two kids out with >> >>>their project. They just need a quick response -- let's help them get an > >> >>> Hi, our names are Stevie and Amanda. We are in the 5th grade at the >> >>> Phillipston Memorial school, Phillipston, Massachusetts, USA. We are > >Even if true, it makes no difference. It is 'net clutter, and teachers >(if indeed this IS a "science project" and these ARE students) should be >advised to nip such intrusions in the bud. It is, however, equally likely >that the whole thing is a fabrication designed to replicate and clog the >'net like the infamous "good times virus" hoax--or to innundate the e-mail >box at the address given, as a malicious prank, an equally likely >possibility. > >KWU > >-- > ||| > (@ @) >Ken Umbach ----------------------------------ooOo-( )-oOoo------ >California State Library -- California Research Bureau >900 N Street, Suite 300 -- Sacramento, CA 95814 (916-653-6002) > >Opinions expressed above are NOT to be considered those of my >employer. Frankly, I have my doubts that they are even my own. >---------------------------------------------------------------- > > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 May 1996 20:19:23 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: BusyKnight Subject: (Cheap) Queen mating nucs Jim Satterfield wrote: >I'm going to try some 4.5 inch plastic flower pots as mini nucs. >I'll be using three small top bars.... Hummm....GMTA Thats what I use for mating nucs (kinda...)! I go to a local nursery and get (free) some of the "five gallon" pressed-board buckets they have. The last time I went, the guy said, "sure, help yourself, they're over there" (& pointed to an entire pile of them). I looked through them and quickly picked out the 25 best I could find. Got 'em home and hosed out the bit of potting soil that was still in a couple of them and 'presto', had my nuc bodies! The top is composed of three (usually) 'top bars' with a little piece of starter foundation in them. And the rest of the top (two pieces) is made of scrap plywood cut to fit the opening of the pressed-board bucket. I cut the ply wood top so as to accomodate a single top bar or as many as five top bars. If you've never handled Top Bar Hive "Frames" before, you've got to be careful with them; you can't 'man-handle' them as you would a complete wooden frame. With very little time spent "fabricating" anything and virtually no out of pocket expense, I have a great little (almost free) nuc box. The fibre pressed-board bucket will hold up over time too. I've been using them as nucs for three years now and expect to get another two or three years of use out of them. Then of course, I may have to replace them (& they're still free for the asking). BusyKnight Dallas, TX PS -- The buckets have rather large drain holes in the bottom of them and the bees use those for the entry...works great. BusyKnight Dallas, TX busykngt@airmail.net Texas - the land of bobwar and jag wires. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 May 1996 10:00:35 +0800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Nik Mohamed Abdulmajid Subject: Re: *swarm net* In-Reply-To: On Tue, 14 May 1996, Paul Cronshaw, D.C. wrote: > On Mon, 13 May 1996, Paul Cronshaw, D.C. wrote: > > >> My question is: > >> > >> 1)What methods are used to transport a swarm back to the apiary? > > >2)Would a burlap sack work better? Cardboard Box? > >> > >> I am interested in experiences from members of this list. > >> > >> Paul Cronshaw DC > >> Hobby Beekeeper > >> Santa Barbara, CA > >> > > >I always use *swarm net* and it always work well. > > > Nik, > > Please explain a *swarm net*? > > Thanks. > > Paul Cronshaw DC > Hobby Beekeeper > Santa Barbara CA > Paul, I'm sorry for being too brief. I wish I can draw the net design here. *swarm net* that I used is not really a net in terms of material. I used a thin cotton cloth to make a somewhat like a pillow case with one open end. The size varies to suit our preference. Two metal or plastic rings are used to line the *swarm net* to form a cylinder like case. The closed end to be the top. You may fix a hook to the top closed end to facilitate your job when you need to hang the *swarm net* like a lantern close to the bee swarm that you are going to catch. The hook also is useful to hang the net with the swarm inside our car. The lower end is to be tied closed during transportation. The advantage of using the *swarm net* is that we can cool the bees by spraying water using hand sprayer, if we need to. I found no ventilation problem while in transportation. Good luck. Nik. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 May 1996 19:00:28 +0100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Gordon Scott Subject: Re: Comments & suggestions appreciated In-Reply-To: <199605112359.TAA10953@smarty.smart.net> On Sat, 11 May 1996, Laura A. Downey wrote: > Busyknight wrote: > >During the peak swarming season; you need to get into your hive > >every 7-10 days to kill swarm cells. This is the only way to > >stop swarming and retain your large field forger work force so > >that you can get a really large honey corp from your hive. Two > >weeks (i.e., 14 days) is too long to go between killing swarm > >cells for a colony that is 'bent' on swarming. Last year I had some that appeared to have swarmed after just _six_ days, using emergency queen cells. Of course, the old queen might have swarmed right after the earlier inspection where we'd cut out some cells, though none were capped at that time, so in theory (Hah!) it was too early for the old queen to have gone. > I will admit that I did have to skip an inspection one week due to minor > surgery which kept me off my feet. That is probably why on my last > inspection last week I spotted all of the swarm cells _already_ capped. > Unfortunately, I haven't been able to convince my husband that he should be > a beekeeper too. Yes, how _do_ the bees know things like that :-) A couple of thoughts on clipping. As Busyknight very rightly said, clipping will *not* prevent swarming -- they'll still try but they won't normally get far. I've seen 'photos of colonies *under* hives to prove it. However, it should avoid you losing the workers for a few more days because they won't actually leave without a queen. Usually, they'll cluster on a tree for a while until they give up waiting for 'mum' who is by now probably lying on the ground somewhere, and thay'll just fly right back into the hive. That gives you a few more days in which to knock out all the Q cells except one. If you don't, then the first virgin queen that hatches will take the full swarm with her and the next virgin will take some more (those casts or afterswarms that were mentioned), until most of your bees & honey are gone. Only *then* will a virgin kill any other rivals and stay home. You should still have a colony, but no honey crop. When I cut them to one Q cell, I may check again after a few days in case they make some more emergency cells or repair any I'd not broken well enough, then I basically leave them for a month. There's nothing much I can do until then except maybe add supers. A beekeeper (good landmark for a bee) near the hives at mating flight time could disorient a returning queen. If they don't have eggs after than month I'll give them one more visit, then a frame of brood with eggs -- if they draw Q-cells they have a problem and I'll find them a new queen somewhere or unite them. I was talking to a local queen breeder recently at a fete, where we chatted about bees generally and some queens I'd bought from him the previous year. "That's one of your's right there in the Observation Hive", I said with confidence. When I looked closer at her again, she wasn't clipped -- but she definitely was when I put her in there. They'd been in the care of a friend for a couple of weeks and they had been "a bit active" one day. I never even saw a Q cell. Regards, -- Gordon Scott gordon@apis.demon.co.uk gordon@multitone.co.uk (work) The Basingstoke Beekeeper (newsletter) beekeeper@apis.demon.co.uk Embryo Home Page Beekeeper; Kendo 3rd Dan; Sometime sailor. Hampshire, England. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 May 1996 22:59:55 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "(Kevin & Shawna Roberts)" Subject: Re: Priming cups for grafting queen cells HI Vince- Kevin Christensen is right- you don't need to prime if you keep the larvae wet. In central California right now, we don't need to do anything to keep the grafts warm. It's already reached 99 degrees F around here a week or so ago. We graft in a drafty, hundred-year old hay barn. I do nothing to coddle the grafted larvae except to place each completed bar under a water-saturated folded towel until I complete a frame. Then I pick up the frame and walk out to put it into a builder. I routinely get close to 100 percent acceptance under these primitive conditions, as long as the larvae are wet. In fact, I don't think you have to keep grafted larvae warm at all. Lately, we use the the Chinese buffalo-horn grafting tool. If you make up a breeder system that provides you with well-fed (floating) larvae, then the Chinese tool is ideal. It will pick up the larva and the *entire* puddle of royal jelly at once. You don't even need to be careful about the orientation of the larvae to the tool-just scoop them up, and plop them into the cell cup. They will not dry out, because you have the entire pool of royal jelly. Try these tools out- they make grafting much quicker. Regarding temperature sensitivity of larvae, I think it's highly over-rated. I've taken frames of day-old larvae that I had grafted from--and poorly washed out with cool water-- and leaned them against the side of a hive to be cleaned. After a cool, completely exposed night (California, okay-- 45 degrees F), the washed, day-old larvae were completely viable and grew into sealed brood after I gave the frame back to the breeder the next afternoon. Kevin didn't say this, but I eat a lot of of larvae licking the grafting tool clean and I'll bet he does, too. Kevin Roberts Hollister, California ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 May 1996 21:12:10 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: John Taylor Subject: Storing Frames/Foundation My new hive seems to be doing well, despite some minor setbacks like a new beekeeper, winds, rain and hail. They still don't have all ten frames drawn out, so I've not put the second hive body on yet. I have assembled and painted it and assembled the frames. The foundation is still in its shippin box. Can I assemble the frames, with foundation, and leave them sit (hanging in the second hive body) in my finished basement for the week or three before they are ready for it without worry about waxmoths? Any general guidelines to follow here? I've gotten lots of good help from the B-LIST and appreciate it and (probably) much more to come. -- John Taylor -- LifeBeat Air Medical http://www.cris.com/~Johntrn1/index.shtml When in danger, or in doubt, run in circles, scream and shout! ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 May 1996 21:14:31 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: John Taylor Subject: Creosote On Clothes (was Propolis on your CLOTHES!) 'nuther question . . . Made the mistake of setting my beesuit down next to my smoker. All that nice dark brown creosote had run down the outside and has now stained my formerly pristine whites. Any suggestions for getting that stuff out? -- John Taylor -- LifeBeat Air Medical http://www.cris.com/~Johntrn1/index.shtml When in danger, or in doubt, run in circles, scream and shout! ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 May 1996 19:24:50 +0100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Gordon Scott Subject: Re: Swarms In-Reply-To: <199605121749.KAA27206@whidbey.whidbey.com> On Sun, 12 May 1996, Hunahpu Matamoros wrote: > My concern is that my only functioning Queen in in the centre > of that inacessible swarm and that the other two hives don't > have the material resources(honey/brood) to renew themselves. Bee colonies don't deliberately commit suicide, so they should be fine. Of course, there are no guarantees here, but if you now have two hives with Q cells, you have good insurance. > Not knowing what a swarm box looks like I took a couple of > large cardboard boxes and, after making an entrance hole, set > one flush on top of the old hive and one on top of the rabbit > hutch next to it(i also placed a comb of honey in each, hoping > to attract the swarm). :-) My swarm boxes look an awful lot like cardboard boxes. I don't usually bother with that fancy entrance hole thingy. I just turn it upside down and prop a corner up on something until all the flyers are in. What you've set up is what I would call a bait hive. There's a reasonable chance they'll use it -- if they're still in that tree, they're probably still looking for a good new home. Regards, -- Gordon Scott gordon@apis.demon.co.uk gordon@multitone.co.uk (work) The Basingstoke Beekeeper (newsletter) beekeeper@apis.demon.co.uk Embryo Home Page Beekeeper; Kendo 3rd Dan; Sometime sailor. Hampshire, England. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 May 1996 22:47:14 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Kevin & Ann Christensen Subject: Re: Priming cups for grafting queen cells ------ =_NextPart_000_01BB41E7.9C4F15A0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Kevin didn't say this, but I eat a lot of of larvae licking the grafting = tool clean and I'll bet he does, too. Kevin Roberts Hollister, California Hi Kevin and All, Kevin Roberts is right. I do eat a lot of larvae. Lots of protein. ( = Tastes great, less filling). Actually it leaves a bad after taste that = I can still taste at least an our after grafting. Apparently, I've somehow been sending attached files with my e-mail = messages. I have no idea why this is happening. I'm not doing anything = different. I wouldn't know how to send files if I tried. I'm a = beekeeper first; and I don't know much about computers. Sorry if I've = inconvenienced anyone. 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Satterfield wrote: > Adam, Joel, Roy, Kevin, Nik, and others who have been following the thread > on priming queen cell cups for grafting larvae: > > I didn't use the same cell-building colony that I had been using. That seems to be fine, > I am using queenless, free-flying colonies to build the cells. If I > supply a frame of emerging brood I seem to get good building. Yes Jim, we really need enough populations of *nursing bee* to be sure of good acceptance. > > The colony I tried to get to build the saliva-primed cells appeared to be > queenless...no brood. I looked through the hive, but I saw no queen nor > brood. The hive is a strong colony, is bringing in honey like mad. > Perhaps the queen was just taking a rest? :) Anyhow, I'm going to try > using saliva one more time, using a 000 brush for transferring larvae, > then putting the frame into the hive that I know is queenless and has > been giving me a good build. I'll file a report on my results in a few days. > Using a colony that has given you a good building record will not ensure you with the same success. By then the particular colony might be exausted of nurse bee population. > > I thank all of you who have sent me suggestions and given me help of any > type. It is a pleasure to be associated with all of you. > > Cordially yours, > > Jim > Good luck, Nik Mohamed nmdmajid@mardi.my ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 May 1996 05:30:54 -0600 Reply-To: allend@internode.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Allen Dick Organization: The Beekeepers Subject: Re: Comments & suggestions appreciated > > >During the peak swarming season; you need to get into your hive > > >every 7-10 days to kill swarm cells. This is the only way to > > >stop swarming and retain your large field forger work force so > > >that you can get a really large honey corp from your hive. Two > > >weeks (i.e., 14 days) is too long to go between killing swarm > > >cells for a colony that is 'bent' on swarming. Well, since no other commercial or extension person has jumped in here, I take my life in my hands and point out that with over 2,000 hives, no commercial producer *ever* cuts cells as a swarm control measure, or even inspects for them on more than a casual basis -- to my knowledge. How do the pros prevent swarming? Good management ahead of and during swarming season is the answer. Do they get swarms? Yes they do -- about the same number as those who cut cells. Regards Allen W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper VE6CFK RR#1, Swalwell, Alberta Canada T0M 1Y0 Internet:dicka@cuug.ab.ca & allend@internode.net Honey. Bees, & Art ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 May 1996 05:34:54 -0600 Reply-To: allend@internode.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Allen Dick Organization: The Beekeepers Subject: Re: 'Science project request': just say NO > I hope everyone has seen my apology. I did not originate this,but > many messages are going out looking as if I had done so. Is there > any way to recall, or cancel this after one has fallen for it? > Would it help if I were to unsubscribe the Bee L for a while?? No, of course not. Everyone makes mistakes. Forget it and get on with enjoying the list. What is done is done. Let's get back to bees. Regards Allen W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper VE6CFK RR#1, Swalwell, Alberta Canada T0M 1Y0 Internet:dicka@cuug.ab.ca & allend@internode.net Honey. Bees, & Art ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 May 1996 19:45:56 +0000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jeff Leavitt Subject: bees I'am looking for information on bees,how to get started,where to get bees, and anything else I can find. Thankyou J.D. Leavitt oldfarm@win.bright.net ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 May 1996 08:39:30 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ted Fischer Subject: Re: Storing Frames/Foundatio REGARDING RE>Storing Frames/Foundation John Taylor writes: >Can I assemble the frames, with foundation, and leave them sit (hanging in >the second hive body) in my finished basement for the week or three before >they are ready for it without worry about waxmoths? Any general guidelines >to follow here? Yes, you can do this assembly without any thought about waxmoths. They only get into finished honeycomb, and that only if it has pollen or bee cocoons in it. Your frames will be perfectly safe, unless you let them stand through the winter. In that case, any jarring will cause the foundation to shatter. Oh, yes, the other extreme is to store them in a hot shed in the middle of summer. The foundation, if not wired, could sag and drop off. Ted Fischer ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 May 1996 15:48:37 +0200 Reply-To: beeman@kuai.se Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: P-O Gustafsson Subject: Re: Saliva-primed Queen Cups James D. Satterfield wrote: > Alas, my initial optimism has been dashed. I thought that I was getting > near 100% acceptance of the cups that I had primed with saliva, but > instead I have had 100% rejection. Hi Jim, >From my experience with royal jelly production I belive your result is correct. I know people that are wery careful not to lick the brush when grafting because bees reject saliva. -- Regards P-O Gustafsson, Sweden beeman@kuai.se http://www.kuai.se/~beeman/ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 May 1996 15:48:46 +0200 Reply-To: beeman@kuai.se Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: P-O Gustafsson Subject: Re: Priming cups for grafting queen cells (Kevin & Shawna Roberts) wrote: > Kevin Christensen is right- you don't need to prime if you keep the larvae > wet. In central California right now, we don't need to do anything to keep > the grafts warm. It's already reached 99 degrees F around here a week or so > ago. > > We graft in a drafty, hundred-year old hay barn. I do nothing to coddle the > grafted larvae except to place each completed bar under a water-saturated > folded towel until I complete a frame. Then I pick up the frame and walk out > to put it into a builder. I routinely get close to 100 percent acceptance > under these primitive conditions, as long as the larvae are wet. In fact, I > don't think you have to keep grafted larvae warm at all. Hi Kevin, You are right there, you can even put the grubs in the fridge ower night and the bees will accept them next day. Only thing that matters is that they don't dry out. -- Regards P-O Gustafsson, Sweden beeman@kuai.se http://www.kuai.se/~beeman/ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 May 1996 08:53:14 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ted Fischer Subject: Re: Creosote On Clothes REGARDING RE>Creosote On Clothes John Taylor writes: >Made the mistake of setting my beesuit down next to my smoker. All that >nice dark brown creosote had run down the outside and has now stained my >formerly pristine whites. Any suggestions for getting that stuff out? What!?! Your beesuit remained pristine white after the first day of use until now? Incredible! Seriously, I can't even remember what my beesuit looked like when new except when I visit my bee supply store. I have gotten creosote, propolis, smashed dead bees and assorted hive junk all over it for years now, and even when washed with lots of bleach it looks terrible. I and the bees don't care what it looks like - only that it protects my clothes. (It is somewhat embarrassing, however, when I get a request to do a demo to some elementary school class. They usually ask about the condition of my "clean" beesuit!) ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 May 1996 10:47:43 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Albert W. Needham" Subject: Re: bees Re: Info on Bees and how to get started. #1. Go to your local library and check out what they have on the subject. #2. Put some effort into finding local beekeepers-if nothing else call your local police and see who they notify when they get a call on a swarm. #3. Get some catalogs-the books you get out of the library will have some addresses. I got my first hive some years ago-by getting a couple of books on the subject and went from there. Do some research first-then go for it. Al Needham Hoobyist Scituate, MA,USA alwine@aol.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 May 1996 09:15:25 PDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: John Day Subject: Re: Creosote On Clothes john taylor writes: >formerly pristine whites. pristine whites?!?!?! ya gotta be kiddin'. every kinda goop imaginable winds up on mine. pristine, eh' i think this guy is braggin or getting his kid to do all the dirty work :-} john ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 May 1996 09:36:52 PDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: John Day Subject: bees in a garage has anyone out there had any experience removing bees from a garage wall where the wall is open inside and out? i plan on removing as much of the comb as i can reach, putting it into a hive body inside the garage a few inches from the exit / entrance hole and hope the bees will then migrate to the box. right now they're in a dead space in the wall and spilling out onto the ceiling of the garage where they're annoying the owner. there's no way i can trap all the bees since they're open to flying both in and out of the garage. so the hive with their comb installed as a bait box seems the way to go. any comments? thanks, john in santa cruz california. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 May 1996 14:13:57 EDT Reply-To: rgendrea@foxboro.com Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Roland Gendreau Subject: Re: Supering Strategy I am a hobbyist considering a different supering strategy and I would like your comments. Since we in the Boston area have to make sure the Apistan strips are installed by the first or second week of August, we cannot harvest any late season honey flow. Therefore, what I've been thinking is to stay with a single brood chamber with a queen excluder, and install 3-4 supers by late May. When I take off the supers by August 1, I would then remove the queen excluder and install the Apistan strips and a second deep brood chamber. My previous strategy was to install a second deep brood chamber in late May and supers in June. I have then left the supers on until late August/September. This has worked poorly because the Apistan strips get in too late (mid September) and my bees have not overwintered successfully. My new strategy would be to manage the hive for early season honey production, put the strips in in early August and let the bees use the late season flow for their stores. The risk is that if there is weak late season honey flow, the bees would not be able to fill the second deep. Since I have quite a bit of honey from a hive that died over the winter, I could feed it to them in September if required. My other concern is whether a single deep may encourage swarming; is there sufficient brood real estate in a single deep or would overcrowding occur? The package I installed last season swarmed in early June even with a second deep. Roland ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 May 1996 14:41:59 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Aaron Morris Subject: Supering Strategy > From: Roland Gendreau > Subject: Re: Supering Strategy > ... > What I've been thinking is to stay with a single brood chamber with a > queen excluder, and install 3-4 supers by late May. When I take off > the supers by August 1, I would then remove the queen excluder and > install the Apistan strips and a second deep brood chamber. > > My new strategy would be to manage the hive for early season honey > production, put the strips in in early August and let the bees use > the late season flow for their stores. > This is how I am managing my new packages installed this spring. > The risk is that if there is weak late season honey flow, the bees > would not be able to fill the second deep. Since I have quite a bit > of honey from a hive that died over the winter, I could feed it to > them in September if required. > You can do two things to help your bees fill the second brood chamber. Feed sugar syrup (you might consider including Fumidil-B as a nosema preventative) or you could use the honey from the hive that died last year as the outside two frames on both sides of the brood chamber with six frames of foundation in the center. The bees can then expand into the foundation frames. > My other concern is whether a single deep may encourage swarming; is > there sufficient brood real estate in a single deep or would > overcrowding occur? The package I installed last season swarmed in > early June even with a second deep. > A legitimate concern. Watch the single brood chamber for signs of swarming, and if indicated, destroy queen cells, pull a couple of frames to make a split on top of the honey supers over a double screen board. This should (may) deter the swarmy brood chamber and jump start the second brood chamber. After harvesting your honey supers, combine the two brood chambers and put the Apistan strips in. I have not tried this management technique, but for reasons similar to your own, it's the technique I have envisioned for this year. Great minds work alike! The mites have changed the nature of beekeeping, so new management techniques deserve investigation. Aaron Morris - I think, therefore I bee! ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 May 1996 12:51:16 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Roy Nettlebeck Subject: Re: Comments & suggestions appreciated Comments: To: Allen Dick In-Reply-To: <199605151028.AA13379@internode.net> On Wed, 15 May 1996, Allen Dick wrote: > > > >During the peak swarming season; you need to get into your hive > > > >every 7-10 days to kill swarm cells. This is the only way to > > > >stop swarming and retain your large field forger work force so > > > >that you can get a really large honey corp from your hive. Two > > > >weeks (i.e., 14 days) is too long to go between killing swarm > > > >cells for a colony that is 'bent' on swarming. > > > > Well, since no other commercial or extension person has jumped in > here, I take my life in my hands and point out that with over 2,000 > hives, no commercial producer *ever* cuts cells as a swarm control > measure, or even inspects for them on more than a casual basis -- to > my knowledge. > > How do the pros prevent swarming? > > Good management ahead of and during swarming season is the answer. > > Do they get swarms? > > Yes they do -- about the same number as those who cut cells. Hi Allen, I think this will get out to all? You made a great point.When I talk to hobby people and we get into how we check a hive , it takes about 20 minutes. You take notes and do some learning in the process.There is no way you can spend the time to cut cells , you would have to almost pull frames. The old tilt the hive body up and look at the bottem of the frames wont work because you have the bottem board fixed to the bottem box most of the time. This list is great , because you brought out the real answer for everyone. Good management.That could be new queens in the spring every year.It is more complex than just one answer. You know what your looking at , in the early spring. Some years are worst than others for swarming. The pro has a big job. Its more work than meets the eye.I know a few people in California that run 2,000 plus hives and they have told me that the fun is gone but they still love bees. You could write a book on good management and miss it by a mile if you move to a different climate.The more time you watch your hives and note the weather, and what the bees are doing , the closser you will get to understanding your bees.This year for me is a mess. We are breaking all kinds of records for rainfall up here in Washington state.They even have a picture of a man with a raincoat on , on the cover of Newsweek magazine this month , with Seattle in big letters. I am way behind and have been feeding since I brought up 60 packages. 800 pounds of sugar so far. See this year , no problem with swarming , just trying to get enough bees to make some surplus. Everyone has there own good management ideas. The books will tell you somethings , but you will learn for yourself. Allen has his hands full now with a late winter , so his normal time for feeding may be extended unless he had some honey saved for this need. But still the bees will not bring in much honey during this may. If you have just a few hives , you can still use the tools that the pros use.The main thing is give the queen room to lay and keep down congestion in the brood nest.Once the queen cells show up your behind, and you need to open up the hive and give them more room.I don't have a hive that I'm worried about swarming right now or even this year. I will have one or two swarm out of about 80. The brood area in the hives at home are in 3 deeps as a brood nest. I have brood in all three boxs and I rotate them about every 10 days. I will not move these hives. Good Management is the answer and Allen hit it right on the head. Best Regards Roy ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 May 1996 15:21:29 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Mark D. Egloff" Subject: Renegade Queen! Comments: To: ohbee-l@sun1.oardc.ohio-state.edu Hello all. Late last week, when I was into my hives, I notice queen cells. Not a good thing for me, as I did not want splits OR swarms. However, at that time, I didn't have the equipment I needed with me to do much more than cut the cells I could find and button 'er up again. Early this week, on Monday, a bright, clear day, with the temperatures in the mid to high 60s (Dayton, Ohio, USA{39.9N}) I went into the hive to split it cull some of the brood and place it in another hive and super the hive with sections. All went well, up to a point. I found the queen and ensured that she was settled into the hive (like a klutz I did not bring my push in cage with me) and began to remove, shake and relocate frames of brood, replacing them with open and empty drawn comb. I got the hive body back together again and had picked up the sections to place them on top of the now single story hive, when I saw the queen walking around on top of the frames. I stopped and waited, figuring that she would soon go back down into the hive, for I did not want to run the risk of crushing her. Well, she did not run down. She took off and flew. I had my hands full and couldn't try to catch her. I tracked her for several seconds then she blended into the rest of the hustle and bustle of bees. After a moment of thought, I went ahead and placed the sections, then took some of the remaining brood frames and shook bees onto the front porch of the hive. They immediately exposed their Nassonov (SP?) gland and began to fan. Flying bees began to cluster on the front of the hive. I hope that the queen will follow the scent into the hive and take up where she left off. If not I can place a split with a laying queen on it and thus requeen the hive. How have you all dealt with this problem? Will she come back home or do I need to break off the split which was targeted to become part of a two queen system, and place it on the hive? Any input, experts? (I am a hobbyist with 4 years experience, but I havn't lost a queen yet ... til now, darnit.) Mark Egloff MEGLOFF@CSC.COM ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 May 1996 16:34:14 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ted Fischer Subject: Re: Renegade Queen! REGARDING RE>Renegade Queen! Mark Egloff writes: > Late last week, when I was into my hives, I notice queen cells. Not a good thing for me, as I did not want splits OR swarms. However, at that time, I didn't have the equipment I needed with me to do much more than cut the cells I could find and button 'er up again. > Early this week, on Monday, a bright, clear day, with the temperatures in the mid to high 60s (Dayton, Ohio, USA{39.9N}) I went into the hive to split it cull some of the brood and place it in another hive and super the hive with sections. >All went well, up to a point. > I found the queen and ensured that she was settled into the hive (like a klutz I did not bring my push in cage with me) and began to remove, shake and relocate frames of brood, replacing them with open and empty drawn comb. I got the hive body back together again and had picked up the sections to place them on top of the now single story hive, when I saw the queen walking around on top of the frames. I stopped and waited, figuring that she would soon go back down into the hive, for I did not want to run the risk of crushing her. Well, she did not run down. She took off and flew. I had my hands full and couldn't try to catch her. I tracked her for several seconds then she blended into the rest of the hustle and bustle of bees....... > How have you all dealt with this problem? Will she come back home or do I need to break off the split which was targeted to become part of a two queen system, and place it on the hive? I think, Mark, that the queen which took off must have been a virgin queen, or else the hive was preparing to swarm and the old queen was prevented from laying. A laying queen would have been too heavy to fly. Since you saw queen cells, there is a good possibility that you didn't get them all cut out. I would be willing to bet that you still have a queen in the hive, either the original or a new virgin queen. I think you did the right thing by luring bees and hopefully the queen back by putting out a frame of brood. She would essentially be a lost bee, and would just wander around until she spotted action or sensed the Nassonov pheromone; it is likely that then she would be drawn back home again. Ted Fischer ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 May 1996 08:34:59 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "David. E. Goble" Subject: Re: Comments & suggestions appreciated >>busykngt@airmail.net Sat, 11 May 1996 wrote > >>week to mate and then another two to four days to begin laying >>eggs. And eggs are hard to spot (if you're not use to what to >>look for). Keep in mind just a little bit of sunlight (UV >>light) can damage them too...so *bee* careful! > >While I agree with all the other points, could I get some justification for >the point about UV damage. Or could it be the drying out of eggs exposed to >daylight? > **************************************************** > * David Eyre 9 Progress Drive, Unit 2, * > * The Beeworks, Orillia, Ontario, L3V 6H1. * > * beeworks@muskoka.net 705-326-7171 * > * http://www.muskoka.net/~beeworks * > * Agents for: E H Thorne & B J Sherriff UK. * > **************************************************** > Hi David; Yes the drying out of the eggs and larva is the main reason for the brood or queen cell death, sunlight and/or UV light can be some of the problem however to be quite sure of the drying process, it is the low humidity of the atmosphere, in other words, have a grafting shed or move into the shade and used a special illumination equipment, that conserve heat. Thanks from : goble@eastend.com.au http://www.eastend.com.au/~goble degob1@mugc.cc.monash.ed.au ( David Goble ) American Beach Kangaroo Island South Australia ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 May 1996 08:35:03 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "David. E. Goble" Subject: Re: Transporting Swarms to Apiary >Bee-listers, > >It is swarming season in Santa Barbara. I have received 3 calls alone in >the past week to remove swarms from various sites around the town. > >I learned my lesson on the method of transporting one swarm which I would >like to share with this list. > >A local trucking company had a swarm move into its yard and collect on a >single branch 15 feet above the ground. Since the swam was right in the >midst of trucks and people, the manager wanted them out ASAP. > >With the use of a fork lift, he lifted me up to the swarm. I cut the >branch with the swarm and dumped it into a PLASTIC bag. Forgot to poke some >holes in the bag. Big mistake!! ByY the time I got to my apiary (10 >minutes traveling time), 1/2 the colony had perished by suffication. I >found the queen but she was too far gone so I combined the remaining bees >with a new colony I had collected a week before. > >My question is: > >1)What methods are used to transport a swarm back to the apiary? >2)Would a burlap sack work better? Cardboard Box? > >I am interested in experiences from members of this list. > >Paul Cronshaw DC >Hobby Beekeeper >Santa Barbara, CA > Hi Paul, Use a super with a lid attach by spring clips top and botton and enough frames of foundation or comb in the centre of the super, in the other spaces place empty frame in to pack the frames. Dump the whole swarm into the super and place the lid on quickly, and transport them to the apiary, getting them into the vehicle with the motor running which will relax the swarm, remove the super before turning the motor off, let them settle and open the hive with a gentle puff of smoke. Your new swarn will settle. Leave them alone for five to seven days before inspecting. Thanks from : goble@eastend.com.au http://www.eastend.com.au/~goble degob1@mugc.cc.monash.ed.au ( David Goble ) American Beach Kangaroo Island South Australia ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 May 1996 19:26:49 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Laura A. Downey" Subject: Good management and swarm prevention Some comments were made about good management and swarm prevention. I'd like to post a few questions regarding this subject. I have been told year after year to reverse the brood chambers every 7 to 10 days. This, I am told prevents congestion in the hive. However, I have read that some believe this does nothing more than disrupt the bees. What do you all think? What are other more effective alternatives that you have had success with? I have also noted that some people here are convinced that cutting queen cells is useless since the bees already have it in mind to swarm and nothing will stop them. If this is true, then how effective is it to cut swarm cells? Is it even worth doing? Does anyone have success with cutting swarm cells and preventing swarms? Despite the fact that I was not physically able to tend to my hives over a two week period during swarm season I think that either I averted the swarm impulse or otherwise the bees had no intentions of swarming, but only planned to supercede their queen. Under normal circumstances, I make it a point to get out to the hives at least once per week during swarm season. Not all of us are fortunate to have someone else do it for us. My husband has nothing to do with my bees other than to eat the honey they produce. I hold no grudge because of this. Some people just don't want to deal with bees. I'd rather not have someone out in my hives who doesn't want to be there. As to what may have happened in one of my hives, do you think my bees were more likely to be superceding their queen or did they really have the impulse to swarm? I thought there was a way to tell by the location of the queen cells - if the cells are in the center of the frames, it is a supercedure, if the cells are on the bottom of the frames, then it is a swarm impulse. Laura Anne Arundel Co., Maryland corvi29@smart.net ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 May 1996 19:56:37 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: David Eyre Subject: Re: Storing Frames/Foundatio >Yes, you can do this assembly without any thought about waxmoths. They only > get into finished honeycomb, and that only if it has pollen or bee cocoons in > it. In our experience this is not strictly correct. In the past we have found trails through drawn foundation of honeycomb that was commpletely clean and unused. The only way you can prevent wax moth damage in wax, is to keep the moths away from the wax in the first place. **************************************************** * David Eyre 9 Progress Drive, Unit 2, * * The Beeworks, Orillia, Ontario, L3V 6H1. * * beeworks@muskoka.net 705-326-7171 * * http://www.muskoka.net/~beeworks * * Agents for: E H Thorne & B J Sherriff UK. * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 May 1996 20:05:35 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: John Taylor Subject: Re: Storing Frames/Foundatio At 08:39 AM 5/15/96 -0400, you wrote: >Yes, you can do this assembly without any thought about waxmoths. They only > get into finished honeycomb, and that only if it has pollen or bee cocoons in > it. Your frames will be perfectly safe, unless you let them stand through >the >winter. In that case, any jarring will cause the foundation to shatter. Oh, >yes, >the other extreme is to store them in a hot shed in the middle of summer. The >foundation, if not wired, could sag and drop off. Hi Ted, Thanks for the info. It's something that I don't remember seeing covered in the bee books that I had read. I KNEW it was a problem with SOME type of honeycomb. -- John Taylor -- LifeBeat Air Medical http://www.cris.com/~Johntrn1/index.shtml When in danger, or in doubt, run in circles, scream and shout! ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 May 1996 19:11:22 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: _ Subject: Re: bees You wrote: > >I'am looking for information on bees,how to get started,where to >get bees, and anything else I can find. > > Thankyou J.D. Leavitt > oldfarm@win.bright.net > Hi, well I can tell you don't order bees from Blue Ridge Apiaries aka Blue Ridge Farms.... my nitemare getting either bees or money back from them is still running after 13 months (they claimed they got flooded last year). other people in the echo have had problems with them too...... ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 May 1996 20:48:14 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: John Taylor Subject: Re: Creosote On Clothes At 09:15 AM 5/15/96 PDT, you wrote: >john taylor writes: > >>formerly pristine whites. > >pristine whites?!?!?! ya gotta be kiddin'. every kinda goop imaginable >winds up on mine. pristine, eh' i think this guy is braggin or getting >his kid to do all the dirty work :-} Nahh, just the brand new bee keeper, who has grandiose ideas about keeping his hives and beesuit nice and white. I'll learn, just give me a little time. -- John Taylor -- LifeBeat Air Medical http://www.cris.com/~Johntrn1/index.shtml When in danger, or in doubt, run in circles, scream and shout! ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 May 1996 21:52:05 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Roy Nettlebeck Subject: Re: Renegade Queen! In-Reply-To: <9604158321.AA832199035@cscuuxch.dayton.csc.com> On Wed, 15 May 1996, Mark D. Egloff wrote: > Hello all. > Late last week, when I was into my hives, I notice queen cells. > Not a good thing for me, as I did not want splits OR swarms. > However, at that time, I didn't have the equipment I needed > I stopped and waited, figuring > that she would soon go back down into the hive, for I did not > want to run the risk of crushing her. Well, she did not run > down. She took off and flew. I had my hands full and > couldn't try to catch her. I tracked her for several seconds > then she blended into the rest of the hustle and bustle of > bees. > > After a moment of thought, I went ahead and placed the > sections, then took some of the remaining brood frames and > shook bees onto the front porch of the hive. They immediately > exposed their Nassonov (SP?) gland and began to fan. Flying > bees began to cluster on the front of the hive. > > I hope that the queen will follow the scent into the hive and > take up where she left off. If not I can place a split with a > laying queen on it and thus requeen the hive. > > How have you all dealt with this problem? Will she come back > home or do I need to break off the split which was targeted to > become part of a two queen system, and place it on the hive? > > Any input, experts? > > (I am a hobbyist with 4 years experience, but I havn't lost a > queen yet ... til now, darnit.) > Hi Mark, I have had queens fly out of there cage before I could get them in a hive.I have been amazed at the results on every case. I put dowm the shipping cage and stand back and wath her fly around. She will make smaller circles as time goes on and will lite on the shipping cage in 3 to 5 minutes.Years ago I talked to Steve Taber about a queen cell that I cut out of a hive and she was close to breaking out of the cell. There was no hole as of the time I set her on the tail gate of my truck. I had about 20 hives at this set so I had more work to do.Just as I finished , I went to pick up the cell ,just in time to see the queen walk out on to the tailgate.She streched out her wings and walked a little. Then came the surprise. She took off and flew right to the hive that I cut her out of. You know Steve did not give me an answer , but I did figure it out in about two years.We have been talking about getting rid of old comb and replacing it with new after a few years. Wax will soak up all kinds of pheromones and anything else that the bees bring back to the hive. That queen knew her hive and there was no hesitation on her part. The gaurds let her in with no problem. If the queen comes out of a hive to swarm ,you can try all sorts of things to get her down.I have been less than sucessful with queen pheromones on the end of a stick. I did not have the full 5 compoud pheromone , which might work. I thought the workers would follow the stick. Bees are Wonderful Roy ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 May 1996 07:14:37 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Joel Govostes Subject: Re: Storing Frames/Foundatio I've not seen foundation wrecked by moths unless it was in a vacant hive adjacent to drawn comb. Certainly never seen the moths go at stored foundation or unoccupied hives with foundation-only. But maybe they would if desperate(?) Moth larvae burrow thru the comb and get norishment from the pollen in it, and as far as i can tell it is the pollen which they are really after. Once drawn out, all comb has bits of pollen in/on it from the constant traffic and attention of the bees; also honey contains bits of pollen. So even extracting combs, clean and light, are subject to attack eventually. However, leave some vacant combs around that have had brood or pollen in them, and the grubs will make a mess of them in no time! I've been busy placing the cleaned-up brood chambers from the dead hives onto my strong colonies. It will delay swarming preparations and make sure those brood combs are safe and maintained. Seen some scout bees lurking around so maybe i can get some swarms for the rest of the empties! I know the moths larvae don't appear this early, but i sure have seen lots of adults (greater and lesser wax moth) flitting around my empty supers the past few weeks. I'm sure they have eggs in there already... Later, JWG ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 May 1996 07:35:31 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ted Fischer Subject: Re: Good management and swar REGARDING RE>Good management and swarm prevention Laura, from Maryland, writes: >I have been told year after year to reverse the brood chambers every 7 to >10 days. This, I am told prevents congestion in the hive. However, I have >read that some believe this does nothing more than disrupt the bees. What >do you all think? What are other more effective alternatives that you have >had success with? >I have also noted that some people here are convinced that cutting queen >cells is useless since the bees already have it in mind to swarm and nothing >will stop them. If this is true, then how effective is it to cut swarm >cells? Is it even worth doing? My personal management technique is to reverse the hive bodies in the spring, when I clean up the winter mess and medicate. This puts the brood area usually on the bottom of the hive. Then I watch, and if a hive is becoming particularly strong, I may reverse hive bodies again in about a month, but that is all. I never regularly touch the hive bodies during the honey flow, when the supers are on (too much work, for one thing!). If I see swarm cells during a late spring inspection, I will often cut them and search for the rest as well, but I realize that this hive will probably swarm anyway. If the colony has been a good one, I save the queen cells and make a lot of splits from it, giving each split a frame with one or more good queen cells. Then I put the queen in a hive body with maybe only one frame of brood, the rest empty or with stores. That way I don't have to worry about looking for a swarm and I end up with several new colonies from a good parent queen. (I take the splits out of the original yard, or the bees would drift back to the original hive location.) To prevent all this fuss in the first place, every colony should be requeened once a year. Probably the best time to do this is in the late summer, but I have so much going on with honey harvest, etc., at this time that my practice is to requeen in the spring. A requeened colony rarely swarms. Ted Fischer ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 May 1996 13:16:34 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Tom Clay Subject: Re: Storing Frames/Foundatio In-Reply-To: Is there a problem with storing the unused frames in plastic bags with a few moth crystals, and then airing them out for a few days before use? ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 May 1996 08:28:09 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ted Fischer Subject: Re: bees in a garage REGARDING RE>bees in a garage John, from Santa Cruz, CA writes: >has anyone out there had any experience removing bees from a garage wall >where the wall is open inside and out? >i plan on removing as much of the comb as i can reach, putting it into >a hive body inside the garage a few inches from the exit / entrance hole >and hope the bees will then migrate to the box. right now they're in >a dead space in the wall and spilling out onto the ceiling of the garage >where they're annoying the owner. >there's no way i can trap all the bees since they're open to flying both >in and out of the garage. so the hive with their comb installed as a >bait box seems the way to go. This will work. However, be prepared for a colossal mess! The natural comb will not necessarily fit well into frames. I have tried to prepare frames by nailing a wire mesh (1/2 inch openings or the like) on one side and having another sheet ready to nail on the other side after having placed the comb. If the comb is irregular, it may still not fit well unless you pare down the "fat" places. Before beginning to remove any comb, make the opening in the wall as large as possible. The bees may not like this, but it will save you grief as you go along. It will be necessary to scrape out every bit of comb and wash down all honey, because the bees will be attracted to the original spot even if you have the brood, stores, queen and all in a bait hive right next to it. Be warned: this is a messy job. You will get honey all over yourself, the combs, the bees, etc. Even using lots of smoke, the bees will not be happy with the move. But it will work. Ted Fischer ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 May 1996 09:23:56 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Joel Govostes Subject: Re: Good management and swar Like Ted, i reverse the two hive bodies in the spring, usually early May after they've been flying for a while and the nights are not so cold. This goes along with cleaning off the bottom boards, which are usually covered with debris/mold/mildew/dead bees. I place a terramycin patty in between the brood boxes, and treat with apistan. Some years, many colonies will have expanded their brood nest down into the lower box already. I reverse them anyway, to encourage them to clean up and utilize all of the combs. Then sometimes i add a third chamber of combs to the strongest colonies. Yesterday i found several colonies prior to reversing which were building queen cell cups. They were totally ignoring the combs in the bottom box. Had i not reversed the chambers those queen cells would no doubt have had eggs in them soon, as the bees were getting crowded in the upper brood boxes. Several years ago i read that you should reverse every 7-10 days during swarming season. So i did, year after year. And i pulled combs and cut queen cells like mad. This was a lot of hard, hot work, wasted tons of time, disrupted the bees very much, and got them quite upset. The bees would boil out all over and get squashed. And yet they would continue going about preparing to swarm, no matter how much super space i gave them above an excluder. Now i just reverse the one time, when spring cleaning, medicate, and make sure they have food and space for the buildup. During swarming season i do the "quickie swarm cell check" once every 7-10 days or so. That is, just crack the brood boxes apart, tip up the upper one, apply some smoke gently to its underside, and scan for queen cups/cells. If they have lots of cups i can remove a couple frames of brood to a weak hive and replace them with empties. Often this will do the trick. I realize you can't see ALL the potential queen cells, but i'm just looking for an indication of colony status. If i see actual queen cells, with eggs or small larvae in them (sometimes its very easy to notice the presence of royal jelly without looking too hard), i remove 3 frames capped brood from the upper box plus a comb of food and replace them with empties, also do a quick spot check of the remaining brood frames in the upper chamber. The pulled combs, with queen cells, go into weak hives or nuclei, or get combined 9 to a chamber and form new colonies. This has helped in keeping up with mite/winter losses. After a few rounds of inspections, the swarm season is past, and the bees are occupied with foraging. Now comes the more easy-going routine of just adding supers all around as necessary, and anticipating a bumper crop... ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 May 1996 08:45:13 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: John Taylor Subject: Re: Storing Frames/Foundatio Hi Joel, Thanks for the information. I want to put foundation in -shortly- before I anticipate needing it. Really don't want to go out to the hive and see 'I need it now' and have to run home, put it in, then have to drive back out to install. Ten frames really won't be TOO bad though. I imagine as time goes by, I'll have a lot of these things sitting around waiting to be used. What do the Greater and Lesser Wax Moth look like? I don't know that I would know one from any other moth. Then . . . How do you spot scout bees? Are these scouts from some of your other hives or from feral bees? Hope all is well with you and your bees. Take care. -- John Taylor -- LifeBeat Air Medical http://www.cris.com/~Johntrn1/index.shtml When in danger, or in doubt, run in circles, scream and shout! ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 May 1996 07:54:06 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Roy Nettlebeck Subject: Re: Good management and swarm prevention In-Reply-To: <199605152326.TAA15739@smarty.smart.net> On Wed, 15 May 1996, Laura A. Downey wrote: > Some comments were made about good management and swarm prevention. I'd > like to post a few questions regarding this subject. > > I have also noted that some people here are convinced that cutting queen > cells is useless since the bees already have it in mind to swarm and nothing > will stop them. If this is true, then how effective is it to cut swarm > cells? Is it even worth doing? Does anyone have success with cutting swarm > cells and preventing swarms Hi Laura ,It is like a dam filling up with water. If the dam has no way of reliving the water when it gets to the top, it will go over the top. Cutting queen cell is like taking out some of the water with buckets and not changing the source or controling the way way the water can be relived thru the dam. Cutting queen cells is using a bucket , getting in and rearanging the hive and frames is changing the dam. You put in some fresh foundation and break up the congestion of the brood nest. Yes it will upset the hive. That is better that a swarm in a tree. I have been watching hive manipulation for a long time. My $ .02 is , it will stimulate activity in the hive.They will spend time rearanging stores and by the time they are done and you have given them more room. They may not swarm. I have had good luck with this approach , It sounds simple , but you have to use your head. Make shure the bees can cover the brood and get out All the queen cells out if you want to go with the old queen.Hope for a nice day to do it.Bee's that are in a good mood seem to go along with the program much better.Beekeepers need to pay attention to the weather , when they work bees. It is one factor that has a lot of impact on the bees overall behavior.Try to load the deck in your favor , good weather if possible, open up the brood nest so the queen has room to lay.The pros can't do all of what you do. They know what works for them and they do more preplannig , so they are ahead of the bees.They know what to expect, because of there knowledge of bee behavior.Then we have a big change in weather and school is out for everyone. I'm 2 weeks behind and slipping fast. We have sun this morning. The fist time in over a month. This will be a long day , but I'm looking forward to it, so I can get some work done with the hives. Box reversing is a book by itself. Many factors enter into the process , to do it right.My average is 125 pounds of honey without much box moving. I do 200 to 360 pounds with 3 brood boxs and rotate them whem they need it.They are the ones that have wintered well.You start in the fall. We will talk about this some time later. Best of Luck Roy ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 May 1996 17:07:56 +0200 Reply-To: beeman@kuai.se Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: P-O Gustafsson Subject: Re: Good management and swarm prevention Laura A. Downey wrote: > > Some comments were made about good management and swarm prevention. I'd > like to post a few questions regarding this subject. > > I have been told year after year to reverse the brood chambers every 7 to > 10 days. This, I am told prevents congestion in the hive. However, I have > read that some believe this does nothing more than disrupt the bees. What > do you all think? What are other more effective alternatives that you have > had success with? Hi Laura, I reverse the boxes once, the reason is to increase broodrearing early in spring. When I break the round brood area the bees will get busy to reorganize it. They have to shift honey up and get a lot of empty cells all of a sudden. It also make the bees use the whole bottom box. If I would do it later in the season, I would only upset the bees and cause them extra work with no benefit. Every time I do something to a hive I will cause the bees some exra work when they have to get temp, humidity etc back to normal again. > I have also noted that some people here are convinced that cutting queen > cells is useless since the bees already have it in mind to swarm and nothing > will stop them. If this is true, then how effective is it to cut swarm > cells? Is it even worth doing? Does anyone have success with cutting swarm > cells and preventing swarms? Well, there is not a simple anwer to that If I get swarmcells because I'm not quick enough adding boxes, yes it might help to cut cells and give the bees more space. On the other hand, if I have bees that really has decided to swarm, I have to split the hive and reduce the number of bees to below "swarming point". > I thought there was a way to tell by the location of the > queen cells - if the cells are in the center of the frames, it is a > supercedure, if the cells are on the bottom of the frames, then it is a > swarm impulse. My experience is that the bees make a few cells in the center of the round brood area when they want to superseed. If they go swarming they start with cells above the brood area, and then the queen lay in cells further and further down with some days difference. At the same time she will slow down on egg laying to get prepared to fly with the swarm. The reason for the queen to lay in swarm cells with some days difference is that there should be new queens hatching out if the first virgin get lost during mating flight. One way to get around the problem with swarming is to put an excluder under the bottom box. When the swarm season is ower there will be only one virgin left. She will fly out to mate when the excluder is removed. It's not fun with all the dead drones on the excluder, but it's a way to prevent swarming if there is no time for normal checking. Be careful not to leave the excluder too long under the hive! -- Regards P-O Gustafsson, Sweden beeman@kuai.se http://www.kuai.se/~beeman/ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 May 1996 13:43:42 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Dave Green, Eastern Pollinator Newsletter" Subject: Re: Renegade Queen! In a message dated 96-05-16 00:56:28 EDT, rnettleb@linknet.kitsap.lib.wa.us (Roy Nettlebeck) writes: >Wax will soak up >all kinds of pheromones and anything else that the bees bring back to the >hive. That queen knew her hive and there was no hesitation on her part. >The gaurds let her in with no problem. I'm skeptical. A newly hatched virgin can run into any hive with little challenge, as her own odor is not yet very developed. Each day older makes acceptance more difficult. I often catch virgins to use for nucs, but try to use them the same day. If not, I put them in a regular queen cage with a small candy plug, as they might get killed. Queens are "jumpy" in the spring, especially if the hive is preparing to swarm. The mated queen that flew from a frame will most likely return in a few minutes, as the workers did not follow. But I think the orientation to the location is the main mechanism. Swarmy bees will follow any queen, so odor is definitely a strong mechanism with them. (Two or three swarms will sometimes merge, and queens will not fight. I saw one humungous swarm onetime, in which two of us counted three mated queens and more than a dozen virgins, as they marched into a hive.) But the queen, if she returned and another hive had been placed on the same location would probably enter and be balled. When I lose a queen (in the air, or I simply can't find her), I just mark that hive, and try to check it again in a few days. If there are eggs, fine. If not they can be given a new queen, a queen cell, or a frame with eggs on it, according to what I have. Pollinator@aol.com Dave and Janice Green, PO Box 1200, Hemingway, SC 29554 Practical Pollination Home Page http://users.aol.com/pollinator/polpage1.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 May 1996 13:43:45 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Dave Green, Eastern Pollinator Newsletter" Subject: Re: Storing Frames/Foundatio In a message dated 96-05-15 19:59:36 EDT, beeworks@muskoka.net (David Eyre) writes: >In our experience this is not strictly correct. In the past we have found >trails through drawn foundation of honeycomb that was commpletely clean and >unused. > The only way you can prevent wax moth damage in wax, is to keep the >moths away from the wax in the first place. It is doubtful that wax moths will get into foundation (which had almost no nutritional value) when it is assembled into the frames, and stored for three weeks in the spring, when few moths are yet about. Wax moth pressure comes on with hot weather, when many adults are emerging, and laying eggs. A full box of foundation, kept in warm storage alongside boxes of comb that has wax moths working in it, may get a trail or two. The larvae will starve before they do much damage, however. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 May 1996 14:12:19 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Mark D. Egloff" Subject: Renegade Queen...Part II The queen I described in my previous posting was not a virgin queen. The hive had not swarmed as it still "boiled" with bees. IMO it was the original queen that had slimmed down in preparation for swarming which flew from my hive. In the hive there were queen cells in their advanced stages of development, probably within 4-6 days of hatching. These cells were cut and the hive was split, giving about half of its frames of brood to other splits (which were built a month ago) to bolster their numbers. The remaining frames were left in the hive and empty drawn comb was placed in the hive to replace the brood which was removed. Round sections were placed on top of this now single story hive. I was trying to get sections (for the first time, no less. Oh well, I have learned a thing or three). I guess from the postings I have read in response to my earlier post that the odds are good the queen returned to the hive and that my actions seem to be to check to see if there are eggs in a few days. If yes, continue as if nothing happened. If not, I need to combine the now queenless hive with one of the splits I already have working, order a queen for immediate delivery, or add some brood with eggs to the hive. I will remember my "push in" cage next time. Thanks all, Mark. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 May 1996 12:13:07 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Roy Nettlebeck Subject: Re: Renegade Queen! In-Reply-To: <960516134341_114927247@emout19.mail.aol.com> On Thu, 16 May 1996, Dave Green, Eastern Pollinator Newsletter wrote: > In a message dated 96-05-16 00:56:28 EDT, rnettleb@linknet.kitsap.lib.wa.us > (Roy Nettlebeck) writes: > > >Wax will soak up > >all kinds of pheromones and anything else that the bees bring back to the > >hive. That queen knew her hive and there was no hesitation on her part. > >The gaurds let her in with no problem. > > I'm skeptical. A newly hatched virgin can run into any hive with little > challenge, as her own odor is not yet very developed. Each day older makes > acceptance more difficult. I often catch virgins to use for nucs, but try to > use them the same day. If not, I put them in a regular queen cage with a > small candy plug, as they might get killed. > Hi Dave , I would be skeptical to if I did not see it myself. The is not smelling het pheromones but that which is in her hive. She could not see where she came from so it must be smell. I can not come up with any other answer. She had 10 to choose from and it was not the closest hive to her.You would think that , we should not have a drifting problem if the bee can smell there own hive.Like I said , it took me two years to finialy say to myself that the queen must have been able to smell her hive.There could be different pheromones goin on in a hive that is getting ready to swarm? I thought about luck.But it was a be line for the right hive and passed up 2 to get home. I would love to hear something else that would explain what happened. Best Regards Roy ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 May 1996 15:56:02 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: David Eyre Subject: Re: Good management and swarm prevention "Laura A. Downey" wrote > As to what may have happened in one of my hives, do you think my bees >were more likely to be superceding their queen or did they really have the >impulse to swarm? I thought there was a way to tell by the location of the >queen cells - if the cells are in the center of the frames, it is a >supercedure, if the cells are on the bottom of the frames, then it is a >swarm impulse. You are correct. While we are discussing swarm control in all it's facets nobody has mentioned what I consider to be the easiest check. On the hive examination 'look for eggs' a hive will not swarm leaving open brood. So.. subject to timing ie. how old the open brood or eggs are helps to determine if and when that hive will swarm. If you don't find eggs, then you're probably too late. In that case, make a false swarm and split, unless of course you want to give your bees to a neighbour!! **************************************************** * David Eyre 9 Progress Drive, Unit 2, * * The Beeworks, Orillia, Ontario, L3V 6H1. * * beeworks@muskoka.net 705-326-7171 * * http://www.muskoka.net/~beeworks * * Agents for: E H Thorne & B J Sherriff UK. * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 May 1996 20:36:11 GMT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Franklin D. Humphrey Sr." Subject: Re: Transporting Swarms to Apiary At 09:37 PM 5/13/96 +0000, you wrote: >>1)What methods are used to transport a swarm back to the apiary? >> >2)Would a burlap sack work better? Cardboard Box? > >Cardboard box, burlap sack; and old pillow case works fine. > Hi All I use a cage allmost as big as a super. I have a 4" hole in the top into which I fit a large funnel similar to the ones used for caging packages. i had the funnel made at a sheet metel shop. One side of the cage is hinged to make it easier to hive the bees. I have a hole at the top for feeding from a quart jar and the opening is covered with 1/8" hardware cloth inside. I just set the cage under the swarm and shake. If you don't get the queen the remaining bees will fly back to their clustering spot and can be easialy caught. The rest is just like handling a package. Frank Humphrey beekeeper@worldnet.att.net ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 May 1996 17:36:41 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jim Moore DTN276-9448 ogo1/e17 508-496-9448 Subject: Re: Good management and swarm prevention >> While we are discussing swarm control in all it's facets nobody has >>mentioned what I consider to be the easiest check. On the hive examination >>'look for eggs' a hive will not swarm leaving open brood. >> So.. subject to timing ie. how old the open brood or eggs are helps >>to determine if and when that hive will swarm. >> If you don't find eggs, then you're probably too late. In that case, >>make a false swarm and split, unless of course you want to give your bees to >>a neighbour!! Is is the presence of the eggs or the fact that the queen is still laying? If if is the egss then as a stop gap measure could you place o frame for another hive with eggs in order to delay things a bit? ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 17 May 1996 09:58:44 GMT+1200 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Nick Wallingford Organization: Bay of Plenty Polytechnic Subject: Re: Good management and swarm prevention > I have been told year after year to reverse the brood chambers every = 7 to > 10 days. This, I am told prevents congestion in the hive. For some locations for some seasons, reversing of broodnests can help to reduce brood nest congestion. It can be used as a low-labour management tool to good effect if carried out at the right time. One commercial operation I worked with did this twice each spring as part of overall management, but you have to make sure the first reverse is after the spring weather is *truly* settled. I'll see if my ASCII art can demonstrate. Change your screen font to a non-proportional font such as Courier in order to see this! ___________________ | h o n e y | | . . | BEFORE: | . . | Normal late spring brood cluster. | . . | Honey above the cluster. No real |_.______________.| room for expansion of broodnest, | . . | as queen is loathe to move down. | . . | | . . | | e m p t y | |_________________| ___________________ | . . | | . . | AFTER: | . . | Empty cells into middle of broodnest. | e m p t y | In middle frames, no massive =91honey |_________________| barrier=92; nectar will be moved out | h o n e y | to sides/top as bees require. | . . | | . . | | . . | |_.______________.| Advantages: Quick. Empty area ready for queen to lay in in middle of broodnest. Moving small amounts of nectar/honey could be stimulatory. Bottom boxes (esp bottom of frames...) get circulated into the 'used' area so they don't get that dead grey useless aspect... Disadvantages: If it gets cold, you really have two broodnests, and probably not enough bees to cover, so there will be brood dying. If there is too much of a honey barrier, the bees may not be able to move it effectively and care for all the brood. If your bottom box frames are not good quality, the bees will refuse to work them in the middle of the nest. The two main pollen combs (outside frames from the original top box) get moved to bottom box, not an ideal location for them... > I have also noted that some people here are convinced that cutting qu= een > cells is useless since the bees already have it in mind to swarm and not= hing > will stop them. C C Miller, eminent American beekeeper of early in this century: "...if a colony disposed to swarm should be blown up with dynamite, it would probably not swarm again, but its usefulness as a honey-gathering unit would be somewhat impaired." ------------------------------------------ Nick Wallingford President - National Beekeepers Assn of NZ NZ beekeeping: http://www.wave.co.nz/pages/nickw/nzbkpg.htm work nw1@boppoly.ac.nz home nickw@wave.co.nz ------------------------------------------ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 May 1996 16:04:47 GMT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: jose arturo osuna ibarra UNSUBCRIBE JAOSUNA ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 May 1996 23:22:19 GMT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Franklin D. Humphrey Sr." Subject: Re: Comments & suggestions appreciated At 06:00 PM 5/14/96 +0000, you wrote: >On Sat, 11 May 1996, Laura A. Downey wrote: > >> Busyknight wrote: > >> >During the peak swarming season; you need to get into your hive >> >every 7-10 days to kill swarm cells. This is the only way to >> >stop swarming and retain your large field forger work force so >> >that you can get a really large honey corp from your hive. Two >> >weeks (i.e., 14 days) is too long to go between killing swarm >> >cells for a colony that is 'bent' on swarming. > My experience has been that cutting swarm cells is a futile exercise. Once swarm preparations are underway the colony will swarm unless drastic measures are taken. If you cut cells they will swarm with the old queen and leave an unsealed queen cell behind. This will usually be a runt that was missed by the beekeeper or worse the beekeeper may cut cells again and end up with a queenless hive. If things have progressed to the point of cell building, make a split. Let the split raise a new queen and get her mated. Then, after the swarm urge has passed, remove the old queen from the original hive and recombine. Put 3 or 4 suppers on to give extra room. You now have a strong colony with young mated queen and they are not likely to swarm. Frank Humphrey beekeeper@worldnet.att.net ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 May 1996 23:40:21 GMT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Franklin D. Humphrey Sr." Subject: Re: Good management and swarm prevention At 07:56 PM 5/16/96 +0000, you wrote: > "Laura A. Downey" wrote > >> As to what may have happened in one of my hives, do you think my bees >>were more likely to be superceding their queen or did they really have the >>impulse to swarm? I thought there was a way to tell by the location of the >>queen cells - if the cells are in the center of the frames, it is a >>supercedure, if the cells are on the bottom of the frames, then it is a >>swarm impulse. > >You are correct. > While we are discussing swarm control in all it's facets nobody has >mentioned what I consider to be the easiest check. On the hive examination >'look for eggs' a hive will not swarm leaving open brood. > So.. subject to timing ie. how old the open brood or eggs are helps >to determine if and when that hive will swarm. > If you don't find eggs, then you're probably too late. In that case, >make a false swarm and split, unless of course you want to give your bees to >a neighbour!! > > **************************************************** > * David Eyre 9 Progress Drive, Unit 2, * > * The Beeworks, Orillia, Ontario, L3V 6H1. * > * beeworks@muskoka.net 705-326-7171 * > * http://www.muskoka.net/~beeworks * > * Agents for: E H Thorne & B J Sherriff UK. * > **************************************************** > Hi David I have to disagree that bees will not swarm leaving open brood. Here, we use single hive bodies and that may be the difference, but I have seen colonies swarm leaving open brood. The case may be made that they were under stress and swarmed. I used to try cutting swarm cells and found out the hard way that if the urge is strong enough, they will swarm leaving open brood and open queen cells. Frank Humphrey beekeeper@worldnet.att.net ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 May 1996 23:57:22 GMT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Franklin D. Humphrey Sr." Subject: Re: Renegade Queen! At 08:21 PM 5/15/96 +0000, you wrote: > Hello all. > Late last week, when I was into my hives, I notice queen cells. > Not a good thing for me, as I did not want splits OR swarms. > However, at that time, I didn't have the equipment I needed > with me to do much more than cut the cells I could find and > button 'er up again. > > Early this week, on Monday, a bright, clear day, with the > temperatures in the mid to high 60s (Dayton, Ohio, USA{39.9N}) > I went into the hive to split it cull some of the brood and > place it in another hive and super the hive with sections. > > All went well, up to a point. > > I found the queen and ensured that she was settled into the > hive (like a klutz I did not bring my push in cage with me) and > began to remove, shake and relocate frames of brood, replacing > them with open and empty drawn comb. I got the hive body back > together again and had picked up the sections to place them on > top of the now single story hive, when I saw the queen walking > around on top of the frames. I stopped and waited, figuring > that she would soon go back down into the hive, for I did not > want to run the risk of crushing her. Well, she did not run > down. She took off and flew. I had my hands full and > couldn't try to catch her. I tracked her for several seconds > then she blended into the rest of the hustle and bustle of > bees. > > After a moment of thought, I went ahead and placed the > sections, then took some of the remaining brood frames and > shook bees onto the front porch of the hive. They immediately > exposed their Nassonov (SP?) gland and began to fan. Flying > bees began to cluster on the front of the hive. > > I hope that the queen will follow the scent into the hive and > take up where she left off. If not I can place a split with a > laying queen on it and thus requeen the hive. > > How have you all dealt with this problem? Will she come back > home or do I need to break off the split which was targeted to > become part of a two queen system, and place it on the hive? > > Any input, experts? > > (I am a hobbyist with 4 years experience, but I havn't lost a > queen yet ... til now, darnit.) > > Mark Egloff > MEGLOFF@CSC.COM > I have had this happen to me on two occasions. The first time I didn't know that the queen had gotten out of the hive. It was a hive that I had recently started from a package. I had been working the bees and couldn't find the queen so I buttoned up and went to the next hive. I went back to that hive about an hour later and saw the queen flying around the hive. I took the top off the hive and she landed on the back of the hive and walked in and was welcomed. The second time it happened I had found the queen and was looking at her on the comb. She took wing and like you, I watched her fly into the wild blue yonder. Next day I checked the hive and she was back laying eggs just like normal. Both these queens were Yugo and both were in very young colonies. I have never had this happen with Italian bees. Frank Humphrey beekeeper@worldnet.att.net ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 17 May 1996 00:13:31 GMT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Franklin D. Humphrey Sr." Subject: Re: Storing Frames/Foundation At 02:12 AM 5/15/96 +0000, you wrote: >My new hive seems to be doing well, despite some minor setbacks like a new >beekeeper, winds, rain and hail. They still don't have all ten >frames drawn out, so I've not put the second hive body on yet. I have >assembled and painted it and assembled the frames. The foundation is still >in its shippin box. > >Can I assemble the frames, with foundation, and leave them sit (hanging in >the second hive body) in my finished basement for the week or three before >they are ready for it without worry about waxmoths? Any general guidelines >to follow here? > >I've gotten lots of good help from the B-LIST and appreciate it and >(probably) much more to come. >-- John Taylor -- >LifeBeat Air Medical >http://www.cris.com/~Johntrn1/index.shtml >When in danger, or in doubt, run in circles, scream and shout! > Hi John If you are going to be using the frames of foundation in a couple of weeks, it won't hurt anything to go ahead and mount the foundation. Brood foundation should however, be mounted as close to time of installation as possible to prevent distortion due to temperature and humidity changes. Frank Humphrey beekeeper@worldnet.att.net ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 May 1996 20:37:47 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Joel Govostes Subject: Re: Good management and swarm prevention >> I have been told year after year to reverse the brood chambers every 7 to >> 10 days. This, I am told prevents congestion in the hive. >... you have to make sure >the first reverse is after the spring weather is *truly* settled. TRULY settled indeed. Yes, Nick this deserves some emphasis! I have made the mistake of becoming a little too anxious (one year after a long winter) and starting brood nest reversals on a warm day in mid-April. You know, one of those balmy, perhaps unseasonably warm WONDERFUL days that come and make the bees (and bee-enthusiasts) so active. Well, suffice it to say that i did my reversals in one yard of a dozen colonies that day, and thought i had gotten a jump on the season. The colonies were expanding and healthy. Of course, a cold snap followed immediately. I figured, great, glad i got that much done while the weather was nice! Next time i inspected those colonies, many of them were basically starting over with pitifully small brood nests as my "management" had destroyed the integrity of their nests and they couldn't cover the brood sufficiently in the cold. Such a waste! Since then i've tried to wait until populations are larger and temperatures milder & more stable - first week in May generally (upstate NY). I just finished up this years' reversing yesterday, in fact, and this is the longest i've ever had to wait to reverse and spring clean. We had snow last weekend and a couple of freezing nights to boot. Seems more like early April than mid-May ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 17 May 1996 11:21:29 +0800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Nik Mohamed Abdulmajid Subject: Re: 'Science project request': just say NO Comments: To: Allen Dick In-Reply-To: <199605151032.AA13394@internode.net> On Wed, 15 May 1996, Allen Dick wrote: > > I hope everyone has seen my apology. I did not originate this,but > > many messages are going out looking as if I had done so. Is there > > any way to recall, or cancel this after one has fallen for it? > > Would it help if I were to unsubscribe the Bee L for a while?? > > No, of course not. Everyone makes mistakes. Forget it and get on > with enjoying the list. > > What is done is done. > > Let's get back to bees. > > Regards > > Allen > > W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper VE6CFK > RR#1, Swalwell, Alberta Canada T0M 1Y0 > Internet:dicka@cuug.ab.ca & allend@internode.net > Honey. Bees, & Art > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Yes Allen, I'm on your side. As a word of precautions to other bee-liners, be sure to hit the right keys when responding to these type of requests. I still remember reading the original message from Richard quoting the two kids requesting to reply to smc@tiac.net, not to the list. To Eunice, you should not have any feeling of guilty. Yeah, as Allen says; Let's get back to bees. Regards to all. Nik Mohamed ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 17 May 1996 11:30:27 +0200 Reply-To: Michael Haberl Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Michael Haberl Subject: Hive management and swarm control My standard management is to inspect colony status weekly and look for queen cells. The time when I begin inspections depends on climate (here about the last week in April). By the time the first q cell contains an egg or a larva (after 7 days q cell could be just capped in the worst case) I cut out all cells that contain larvae and take out the old queen (I kill her when I do not need her otherwise, with valuable queens, of course, I make splits). I put in 5 grafted larvae in q cups (larvae from qualified queens). Usually all colonies will accept at least one of the grafted larvae. Otherwise, I compensate between colonies. (For security reasons, I take away all combs with open brood cell from one colony and use this colony for breeding additional grafted larvae.) After 9 days (all female brood capped) I take away all queen cells except the grafted one. This queen will hatch, mate. PRO: The colonies will hardly try to swarm again this year. Very strong colonies, high honey yield (many workers, gap in brood feeding!) Varroa reproduction gap (when no honey flew, opportunity for varroa treatment!), every year a young queen, which give excellent spring starts Usually only one or two inspections before they have occupied q cups. CONTRA: two times q cup cutting, searching of the old queen, mating risk (make some nucs with surplus q cells, reduce mating risk by some landmarks in front of the hives, do not align them regulary). Michael Haberl Zoologisches Institut der Uni Muenchen Tel: ++49 89 5902-444 Luisenstr. 14 Fax: ++49 89 5902-450 80333 Muenchen, Germany E-mail: haberl@zi.biologie.uni-muenchen.de ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 17 May 1996 22:08:35 +1300 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Peter Bray Subject: Re: Good management and swarm control At 07:35 AM 5/16/96 -0400, Ted Fischer wrote: >If I see swarm cells during a late spring inspection, I will often cut them >and search for the rest as well, but I realize that this hive will probably >swarm anyway. If the colony has been a good one, I save the queen cells and >make a lot of splits from it, giving each split a frame with one or more good >queen cells. That's one way of selectively breeding good swarming stock! If you don't want swarming vigour in your stock, it's not a good idea to raise queens from swarming hives. (some people do want swarming stock, linking it to increased honey production - if you can keep them out of the trees). We rely on using beestock (our own) that does not show swarming tendancy as one of our swarm control management methods. Others include young queens (<18 months), 2 queen hives, brood nest reversal and aimning to keep brood nest congestion to a minimum. A couple of frames of brood pulled and put above a queen excluder can help reduce brood next congestion if all else fails. Just make sure it's not young brood or they might do a swarm/supercedure cell on it. Regards, Peter Bray, Airborne Honey Ltd. Leeston, New Zealand Fax 64-3-324-3236, Phone 64-3-324-3569 p.bray@netaccess.co.nz ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 17 May 1996 10:44:36 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: David Eyre Subject: Re: Good management and swarm prevention >>> So.. subject to timing ie. how old the open brood or eggs are helps >>>to determine if and when that hive will swarm. >>> If you don't find eggs, then you're probably too late. In that case, >>>make a false swarm and split, unless of course you want to give your bees to >>>a neighbour!! > > Is it the presence of the eggs or the fact that the queen is still >laying? If it is the egss then as a stop gap measure could you place a >frame from another hive with eggs in order to delay things a bit? > Just goes to show!! That the bees don't read the same books as us. Someone said that he has seen a hive swarm leaving open brood, but I don't think that's the norm!! I think the presence of eggs means the queen would be too big to fly, as one thing they do is too slim the queen down, before they leave. **************************************************** * David Eyre 9 Progress Drive, Unit 2, * * The Beeworks, Orillia, Ontario, L3V 6H1. * * beeworks@muskoka.net 705-326-7171 * * http://www.muskoka.net/~beeworks * * Agents for: E H Thorne & B J Sherriff UK. * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 17 May 1996 11:26:23 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Rick Grubbs Organization: Beekeeper Subject: Supering I have heard a couple of different methods of supering. I have been told to wait till all of the frames are drawn completly then add another super, and some say to super when they have drawn 7 frames. Also is top or bottom suppering better? -- *************************** * Charles (Rick) Grubbs * * digital@avana.net * * Douglasville, Ga SE USA * *************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 17 May 1996 08:38:42 PDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Adrian Wenner Subject: Re: Moth crystals & Storing combs Tom Clay wrote: > Is there a problem with storing the unused frames in plastic bags with a few >moth crystals, and then airing them out for a few days before use? Forty years ago I did just that. You can imagine how weird the honey tasted later! Moth crystals can poison bees as well as moths. Furthermore, some types of moth crystals get absorbed by the wax in combs and persist far longer than one might think. Adrian *************************************************************** * Adrian Wenner E-Mail wenner@lifesci.lscf.ucsb.edu * * Dept.Ecol.,Evol.,& Mar.Biol. Office Phone (805) 893-2838 * * University of California Lab Phone (805) 893-2675 * * Santa Barbara, CA 93106 FAX (805) 893-8062 * * * * "Once a structurally complete and closed system of opinions * *consisting of many details and relations has been formed, it * *offers enduring resistance to anything that contradicts it." * * Ludwik Fleck, 1935 [1979] * *************************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 17 May 1996 08:45:10 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Roy Nettlebeck Subject: Re: Good management and swarm prevention In-Reply-To: <199605171449.KAA07286@segwun.muskoka.net> On Fri, 17 May 1996, David Eyre wrote: > >>> So.. subject to timing ie. how old the open brood or eggs are helps > >>>to determine if and when that hive will swarm. > >>> If you don't find eggs, then you're probably too late. In that case, > >>>make a false swarm and split, unless of course you want to give your bees to > >>>a neighbour!! > > > > Is it the presence of the eggs or the fact that the queen is still > >laying? If it is the egss then as a stop gap measure could you place a > >frame from another hive with eggs in order to delay things a bit? > > > Just goes to show!! That the bees don't read the same books as us. Someone > said that he has seen a hive swarm leaving open brood, but I don't think > that's the norm!! > I think the presence of eggs means the queen would be too big to > fly, as one thing they do is too slim the queen down, before they leave. Hi David,Your completley right about the slim part , before the old queen leaves with the swarm.Think about queen weight and egg production in one day. I have read that a queen will lay her own weight in eggs in one day.It looks possible sometimes in the spring and early summer.If she would turn off the switch for egg laying , it should not take long to drop in weight. I have seen larva in a hive that just swarmed and did not think to much about it at the time.Some races swarm at a drop of a hat. The old carni's were known for there swarming in the spring. I use to count on splitting them in the spring. I had one hive in 1980 that was in 5 deep brood boxs. It was mean and I split it into 5 parts to find the queen. You would lift the lid on that hive and the lights would go out. The veil would be covered in a second. She was a egg layer. Best Regards Roy ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 18 May 1996 02:18:04 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "David. E. Goble" Subject: Re: Renegade Queen! > Hello all. > [snip] > Any input, experts? > > (I am a hobbyist with 4 years experience, but I havn't lost a > queen yet ... til now, darnit.) > > Mark Egloff > MEGLOFF@CSC.COM > > Hi Mark; As your hive of bees did not fly to their queen, and I presume that she was mated from this hive, she will probably return, relax, and in a week to ten days examine the brood chamber for hatching eggs, if no eggs place a queen cell into the hive or requeen. Thanks from : goble@eastend.com.au http://www.eastend.com.au/~goble degob1@mugc.cc.monash.ed.au ( David Goble ) American Beach Kangaroo Island South Australia ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 18 May 1996 02:21:13 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "David. E. Goble" Subject: Re: Saliva-primed Queen Cups >Adam, Joel, Roy, Kevin, Nik, and others who have been following the thread >on priming queen cell cups for grafting larvae: > [snip] > >I thank all of you who have sent me suggestions and given me help of any >type. It is a pleasure to be associated with all of you. > >Cordially yours, > >Jim > > -------------------------------------------------------------- > | James D. Satterfield | E-Mail: jsatt@gsu.edu | > | P.O. Box 2243 ------------------------------ > | Decatur, GA 30031, USA 258 Ridge Pine Drive | > | S.E. United States or Canton, GA 30114, USA | > | Telephone (404) 378-8917 Telephone (770) 479-4784 | > -------------------------------------------------------------- > Hi Jim; Just a note to remind you that your bees controll you not you controlling them, if the queenless hive continue to destroy or neglect your queencells, place your frames with the hatching brood,honey and pollen and the new queencell cups into a closed box in a shaded position. This will increase your success rate of queen raising,as when the hive is open to the honey flow, this interferes with the main requirement of producing royal jelly for the best queen cells. Thanks from : goble@eastend.com.au http://www.eastend.com.au/~goble degob1@mugc.cc.monash.ed.au ( David Goble ) American Beach Kangaroo Island South Australia ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 18 May 1996 02:23:09 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "David. E. Goble" Subject: Re: Comments & suggestions appreciated >On Sat, 11 May 1996, Laura A. Downey wrote: > >> Busyknight wrote: > [snip] > >Regards, >-- >Gordon Scott gordon@apis.demon.co.uk gordon@multitone.co.uk (work) >The Basingstoke Beekeeper (newsletter) beekeeper@apis.demon.co.uk >Embryo Home Page >Beekeeper; Kendo 3rd Dan; Sometime sailor. Hampshire, England. > Hi Gordon, Looking at your hive every six days is creating the situation for your bees to swarm, at the start of spring your whole hive should be inspected for swarming cells and the state of your hive, then if you keep placing more supers on this hive, you are allowing the bees to store nectar and return to you. This is the most simple way to stop swarming in any hive, as looking at your hive to much, will create stress, which will cause disease or swarming, etc. For more information see our Web Pages, re: Swarm Control. The URL is below in our signature. Thanks from : goble@eastend.com.au http://www.eastend.com.au/~goble degob1@mugc.cc.monash.ed.au ( David Goble ) American Beach Kangaroo Island South Australia ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 18 May 1996 02:24:22 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "David. E. Goble" Subject: Re: Comments & suggestions appreciated >On Wed, 15 May 1996, Allen Dick wrote: > >> [snip] > Best Regards > Roy > Hi Roy; Any beekeeper with a large number of hives requeens each year, to stop poor genetic mutations creeping into the production hives, large operators, requeen every second year half of the hive numbers. Thanks from : goble@eastend.com.au http://www.eastend.com.au/~goble degob1@mugc.cc.monash.ed.au ( David Goble ) American Beach Kangaroo Island South Australia ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 17 May 1996 19:07:15 +0200 Reply-To: beeman@kuai.se Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: P-O Gustafsson Subject: Re: Supering Rick Grubbs wrote: > > I have heard a couple of different methods of supering. I have been told > to wait till all of the frames are drawn completly then add another > super, and some say to super when they have drawn 7 frames. Also is top > or bottom suppering better? Hi Rick, I can only speak for the conditions where I live, they might not be the same for you. Before and during swarm period I super after the amount of bees in the hive. I don't let them "hit the lid", there should be space above them so they don't feel overcrowded and get into the swarming mood. When the swarm season is passed there is another reason for giving the bees enough space. When they collect nectar during daytime they need room to store it. Nectar the bees bring in hold a water content of maybee 50%. That means they need lots of empty cells to store that nectar in while they go out to get more. If there is not enought empty cells in the hive the bees will have to stop collecting nectar until the young bees at home have reduced the water content and volume of the honey. Bottom supering is probably better, if you use an excluder. Bees don't like empty cells above the brood nest. For the commersial beekeeper there might be too much lifting to pay for the extra work. -- Regards P-O Gustafsson, Sweden beeman@kuai.se http://www.kuai.se/~beeman/ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 17 May 1996 12:02:46 CDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ray Nabors Subject: Re: Supering The most productive method of supering is to place the second super on top of the brood chamber when the first super is half full or half drawn out. The first super should be full and ready to come off when the third super is placed over the brood nest. The second super should be half full by that time. This keeps only two supers on the bees at all times and encourages them to work. If you have 100 out yards with 25 colonies in each this method would be rediculous so you put on all three at once. If you are a one apiary beekeeper, this is more often than not the most productive method. ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Supering Author: Discussion of Bee Biology at internet-ext Date: 5/17/96 10:23 AM I have heard a couple of different methods of supering. I have been told to wait till all of the frames are drawn completly then add another super, and some say to super when they have drawn 7 frames. Also is top or bottom suppering better? -- *************************** * Charles (Rick) Grubbs * * digital@avana.net * * Douglasville, Ga SE USA * *************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 17 May 1996 11:50:44 CDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ray Nabors Subject: Re[2]: Moth crystals & Storing combs The proper way to use Moth crystals is first to use PDB crystals, Napthalene is not as effective. Napthalene also has more a tendancy to flavor honey. The crustals need to be placed on a piece of paper laying on the top of a stack of supers. You need 2 table spoons of crystals for a stack of 10 supers. Seal these under platic. If you do not break a hole or have a leak in you plastic, this fumigation will last from one season to the next even with old drawn comb. You must air out these supers for at least 48 hours in well ventilated place before putting them on any colony of bees. I put mine outside in the weather for 72 hours after such a treatment. The supers can be put on the bees about a 2 weeks prior to the honey flow for extra cleaning. Proper fumigation works well. If you try to short cut any on these steps, you may be disappointed. ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Re: Moth crystals & Storing combs Author: Discussion of Bee Biology at internet-ext Date: 5/17/96 10:34 AM Tom Clay wrote: > Is there a problem with storing the unused frames in plastic bags with a few >moth crystals, and then airing them out for a few days before use? Forty years ago I did just that. You can imagine how weird the honey tasted later! Moth crystals can poison bees as well as moths. Furthermore, some types of moth crystals get absorbed by the wax in combs and persist far longer than one might think. Adrian *************************************************************** * Adrian Wenner E-Mail wenner@lifesci.lscf.ucsb.edu * * Dept.Ecol.,Evol.,& Mar.Biol. Office Phone (805) 893-2838 * * University of California Lab Phone (805) 893-2675 * * Santa Barbara, CA 93106 FAX (805) 893-8062 * * * * "Once a structurally complete and closed system of opinions * *consisting of many details and relations has been formed, it * *offers enduring resistance to anything that contradicts it." * * Ludwik Fleck, 1935 [1979] * *************************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 17 May 1996 12:52:06 CST6CDT Reply-To: bwhite@mda-is.mda.state.mn.us Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: BLANE WHITE Organization: Minnesota Dept of Agriculture Subject: Dr. Basil Furgala Hi all, It is with sadness that I report the death on Saturday May 11 of Dr. Basil Furgala. Dr. Furgala conducted much research aimed at practical beekeeping and was very involved in finding controls for diseases and pests of honey bees. His early work here in MN on nosema control provided beekeepers here in the upper midwest with the needed information on control of this disease. He also worked on the proper use of TM to control AFB and EFB. In the last few years before his retirement he worked on control of tracheal mites and was one of the first in North America to document the damaging effects of the mites on colonies of honey bees wintered in the north. These are just a very few of his many contributations. Basil will be missed but much of his work will continue to be used by beekeepers throughout the US. blane ****************************************** Blane White State Apiary Inspector Minnesota Department of Agriculture 90 W Plato Blvd St Paul, MN 55107 http://www.mda.state.mn.us ph 612-296-0591 fax 612-296-7386 bwhite@mda-is.mda.state.mn.us ******************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 17 May 1996 14:20:34 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: - Ed Levi Subject: Re: Good management and swarm prevention David, Nothing to brag about, but I've seen my share of swarms over the past 25 years. From my experience, it not uncommon to find a abundance of freshly laid brood from a departing queen in the days (or daze) just prior to swarming. I have also seen, but less frequently, a lack of young brood in the mother colony of a swarm. When I attended a beekeeping course in France, we were taught that the departing queen will lay a large number of eggs before departing to assure the survival of the remaining colony. Ed ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 17 May 1996 21:30:36 GMT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Franklin D. Humphrey Sr." Subject: Re: Supering At 03:26 PM 5/17/96 +0000, you wrote: >I have heard a couple of different methods of supering. I have been told >to wait till all of the frames are drawn completly then add another >super, and some say to super when they have drawn 7 frames. Also is top >or bottom suppering better? >-- >*************************** >* Charles (Rick) Grubbs * >* digital@avana.net * >* Douglasville, Ga SE USA * >*************************** > Hi Rick I live in Chattanooga just north of you. If I'm supering with foundation, I wait until the first super is just about completely drawn before adding the next super. If you put the foundation on to soon they will chew it and sometimes destroy it. I don't know if they are trying to get more wax for the first super or what. If it is late in the season and the foundation is not drawn, they will often rework it into drone cell size. If the bees are filling the comb as fast as they are drawing it, then you want the foundation on about the time they start drawing the last two frames. If I am using drawn comb, I just go ahead and give them 3 or 4 supers according to the strength of the colony. Just to give an example. I have a colony of Yugos which I wintered in 2 deeps then split this spring. The parent colony's population has since exploded and they are making honey faster than any other colony I have. I split them the third week in April and gave them 2 supers of drawn comb, one heavily damaged from extraction. They filled the first one quickly, repaired the damaged one and started filling it. I gave them a third super in the middle of the third week and they immediately started working in it. Last weekend I gave them a supper of foundation just to stay ahead. They are now sealing the first super, completing the filling of the second, starting to fill the third and starting to fill the forth. I certainly wish I had many colonies like this one. Life would be so much easier. So I guess this is a long winded way of saying that you should take what you read here as good advise to be used a pointers. Read what others do, but pick the method that suits you, the conditions in your area and the condition of your bees. Frank Humphrey beekeeper@worldnet.att.net ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 17 May 1996 19:15:59 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ted Wout <102336.711@CompuServe.COM> Subject: Re: Good management and swarm prevention This is my second year as a beekeeper and I saw swarming activity in my one overwintered hive. My beekeeping mentor gave me advice, cutting queen cells and adding a super. This hive was jammed with bees and looked better than any of his hives. He marvelled at how prolific my queen was and how well my first hive was doing. Said it was one of the best he had seen in a long time. I followed his advice and eventually my bees swarmed anyway, leaving many more queen cells than I had just removed. If I could take it all back now, I wish that I had just split the hive. I'd have my original hive plus another with her genetics. Now I have a hive that is stunted waiting for a new queen to mate and then lay eggs. This is a tremendous setback in the heat of the Texas honeyflow. Every experienced beekeeper that I've met has told me not to fight the bees instinct but use it to my advantage. The bees are driven by their instinct to swarm and contradictory to their advice, beekeepers fight the swarming instinct. Why not just swarm for them by splitting the hive and not losing your bees? Do split hives still regularly swarm? Next year, after this year's experience, I'm going to split any hive that shows an inclination to swarm. I'd rather have my bees and an extra hive than to have them swarm and risk losing them. Ted Wout, Red Oak, TX, 2nd year beekeeper, 8 hives (should be 9 hives) ______________ You are correct. While we are discussing swarm control in all it's facets nobody has mentioned what I consider to be the easiest check. On the hive examination 'look for eggs' a hive will not swarm leaving open brood. So.. subject to timing ie. how old the open brood or eggs are helps to determine if and when that hive will swarm. If you don't find eggs, then you're probably too late. In that case, make a false swarm and split, unless of course you want to give your bees to a neighbour!! **************************************************** * David Eyre 9 Progress Drive, Unit 2, * * The Beeworks, Orillia, Ontario, L3V 6H1. * * beeworks@muskoka.net 705-326-7171 * * http://www.muskoka.net/~beeworks * * Agents for: E H Thorne & B J Sherriff UK. * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 18 May 1996 14:29:42 +1300 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Peter Bray Subject: Re: Moth crystals & Storing combs&Honey Contamination. PDB Crystals, (Para Dichloro Benzene) commonly used around the World for Wax Moth control contaminate honey!. Combs stored with PDB will likely produce honey with traces of Benzene. This is detected in honey imported into Europe and has hit the Press there on more than one occassion. There are other metthods of Wax Moth control. Low temperatures (below 0 degs. Celsius for a couple of days will kill both lesser and greater Wax Moth eggs. High concentrations of CO2 (greater than 80%) will also kill Wax Moth eggs. In New Zealand, the lesser Wax Moth tends to have a range further South (colder) than the greater Wax Moth. In the warmer North Island where they have more problems with the greater Wax Moth, many commercial producers store supers in sheds with raised floors and wire netting as a flooring. This keeps the supers well ventilated and cooler, thus minimising Wax Moth damage. As producers of a natural product, we should resist the urge to dive for the nearest chemical cabinet to overcome our management problems. Regards, Peter Bray, ---------------------------------------------------------------- Airborne Honey Ltd. Leeston, New Zealand Fax 64-3-324-3236, Phone 64-3-324-3569 p.bray@netaccess.co.nz ---------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 17 May 1996 21:58:08 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Joel Govostes Subject: swarm prevention for the hobbiest? To go along with the bees' instincts to reproduce the colony by swarming, some type of division is the obvious remedy to the swarming problem. I believe this whole topic is perplexing for beginners and many hobbiests; if you read many of the usual bee manuals the advice given is usually super room, ventilation, reversing brood chambers and often queen cell removal. And hope they don't swarm. I've done all these, as have so many others, only to find they swarm anyway. So eventually you come to expect virtually all strong overwintered colonies to want to swarm and you need a remedy that is reliable. Problem is, the increasing number of colonies that is inevitable. Whether you remove some brood, make a bona fide division, or let them swarm and hive them, you end up with more colonies than you started with. So the novice or gardener-beekeeper who really only wanted one or two (or whatever) hives finds the apiary growing (and the investment increasing) when that wasn't the original idea! IMO beginners should learn the bees probably WILL try to swarm, period, and that there are manipulations to thwart this and retain the honey-gathering force of their colony. Seems to me this means making a simple division of some sort, and then re-uniting it to the parent later in the season, perhaps at close of final honey flows. This doesn't have to be very complicated, but requires an additional single-brood chamber hive and probably a screen board for setting the division above the parent. Many of us do this sort of thing regularly. Any further ideas on a very simple system like this that would be foolproof and reliable for the hobbiest, especially beginners?? - so they can have their small apiary without getting the swarms and enjoy the substantial crops that they hope for? A potential problem is the creation of a third brood chamber (the division, later to be re-united) which will get extremely heavy with honey and add to the difficulty of manipulating the hive at times. (presuming standard, full-depth frames are used for this). Well enough of that, but it is something that comes up often and i hate to see new beekeepers discouraged by the whole swarming thing. Thanks, JWG ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 18 May 1996 12:59:59 +1000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Mauricio Montes-Castillo Subject: Re: Good management and swarm prevention Hi Bee people: I have been reading all this good ideas about how to control/prevent a colony to swarm. All of them are excellent, but I think the back-bone of the problem has not been discussed yet. This is genetics. We first have to recall that most apis mellifera behaviour is not learnt, but rather have a very high genetic component. And swarming behaviour is not the exception, I belive that swarming in european bees and absconding behaviour in african bees are controled by highly correlated genes (if not the same!!) Therefore we must be aware that we are responsible for the continuation of the swarming problem in our bees. This is, we usualy make our splits from colonies that are about to swarm or already did. Some of us increase the number of colonies from feral colonies who may have a high tendency to swarm (otherwise they were not feral). How many of us bother to replace the queens from those swarms? How many of us rear queens from colonies that didn't show a tendency to swarm the past seasson? We should be fair then, and not blame the poor creatures of a behaviour we are encouraging somehow. Open to feedback or comments.... Mauricio Montes s189019@student.uq.edu.au Brisbane, Australia ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 17 May 1996 20:56:54 PDT Reply-To: TTOWNSE@ibm.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Tim Townsend Subject: Re: Good management and swarm prevention --------------Original Message--------------- Box reversing is a book by itself. Many factors enter into the process , to do it right.My average is 125 pounds of honey without much box moving. I do 200 to 360 pounds with 3 brood boxs and rotate them whem they need it.They are the ones that have wintered well.You start in the fall. We will talk about this some time later. Best of Luck Roy I was curious how your three's worked out this winter?, as we have been wintering in threes for a (1300 - 7 years) number of years, and this year they really took a kicking, we will be looking at singles and doubles for summer and doubles and triples for winter, but filled with sugar syrup, not honey, it's getting too costly to leave on the hives. TPLR HONEY FARMS Tim Townsend RR 1 Stony Plain Alberta TTOWNSE@IBM.NET - ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 17 May 1996 21:01:49 PDT Reply-To: TTOWNSE@ibm.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Tim Townsend Subject: Re: Storing Frames/Foundatio I have been following this thread for awhile, and I just can't restrain myself anymore :), to prevent any wax moth problems in your comb is very easy. Use plastic frames. TPLR HONEY FARMS Tim Townsend RR 1 Stony Plain Alberta TTOWNSE@IBM.NET ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 18 May 1996 15:49:37 +1200 Reply-To: nickw@wave.co.nz Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Nick Wallingford Organization: Nat Beekeepers Assn of NZ Subject: Re: Moth crystals & Storing combs&Honey Contamination. > In the warmer North > Island where they have more problems with the greater Wax Moth, many > commercial producers store supers in sheds with raised floors and wire > netting as a flooring. This keeps the supers well ventilated and cooler, > thus minimising Wax Moth damage. Another principle behind these super storage sheds is that moths will only enter such stacks of supers from the top. So if your stack of supers is open to the bottom (on a slatted floor, with mesh, for instance) there is a natural 'chimney' draft of air up through the stacks. And the theory is that the moths don't/won't fly down into the boxes if there is such an air movement. Doesn't stop the mice, however... (\ Nick Wallingford {|||8- home nickw@wave.co.nz (/ work nw1@boppoly.ac.nz NZ Beekeeping http://www.wave.co.nz/pages/nickw/nzbkpg.htm ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 18 May 1996 05:21:37 -0300 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Stan Sandler Subject: survivability and swarming Mauricio, in balmy Brisbane Australia wrote: >I have been reading all this good ideas about how to control/prevent a >colony to swarm. All of them are excellent, but I think the back-bone of the >problem has not been discussed yet. This is genetics. >We first have to recall that most apis mellifera behaviour is not learnt, >but rather have a very high genetic component. >And swarming behaviour is not the exception, I belive that swarming in >european bees and absconding behaviour in african bees are controled by >highly correlated genes (if not the same!!) >Therefore we must be aware that we are responsible for the continuation of >the swarming problem in our bees. This is, we usualy make our splits from >colonies that are about to swarm or already did. I would note that your locale Mauricio is quite warm and does not have a really severe winter. A similar thought was put forward by Peter Bray, whose bees are airborne over Leeston, New Zealand. Now I couldn't find Leeston in my atlas, but unless it is up pretty darn high in the mountains it probably doesn't have anything like the rigors of the Canadian winter. What does this have to do with selecting for swarming by using swarm cells for splits? Let me try and explain my reasoning, and I hope I am not just rationalizing lazy beekeeping for the busy dairy farmer. For myself anyway, but I think for some other beekeepers as well, survivability is the number one consideration, whether it be the ability to survive winter, varroa mites, tracheal mites, etc. Many of the other desirable traits, such as strong foraging, good pollen gatherers, good egg layers (and knowing when to quit!) are also involved in survivability. I figure that a hive that can come through the winter and build up to such a strength that I can use its swarm cells to start several splits is worth propagating, and if I am increasing my swarming tendency it may be a necessary facet of survivability. If I was to select from one or two of the best survivors, who didn't make swarm cells, I might have chosen the best survivability genes, but then again I might have missed them. Maybe that was a hive that had a young vigorous queen going into the winter and happened to have perfect stores. But by keeping the gene pool large and just dividing vigorous spring colonies before they abscond mother nature is sure to select for survivability. I feel that the bees I have now are much better at wintering than their parent stock, which was mostly from New Zealand and Australia. And despite using swarm cells as my main method of increase for many years now, I actually notice very little increase in swarming tendency from the parent stock. Old queens, crowded brood chambers seem to be much more of a factor than genetics, in my opinion. So I'm coming out of the closet and telling the list, I DON'T RAISE QUEENS. The bees do. And they seem to do a bloody good job of it too! For the last two winters I had 95% survival with no packing. (I'm not bragging; we do not have either varroa or tracheal mites here yet.) And in the previous two seasons I was able to increase my hives by about 50% each season, which I wanted to do because the blueberry industry is going gangbusters here. I didn't plan this or even think it out that well. I am now proudly proclaiming my genetic responsibility in preserving the adaptive gene pool. But actually I was just too busy getting ready for hay season and moving my hives in and out of blueberries to ever take the time to raise queens. It was just so easy to tip up the boxes and if the hives were making q cells, then divide them. I was a bit embarrassed about it, but it seems to have worked out well. Regards from Stan on Milk and Honey Farm in Prince Edward Island where even in July and August, I think it is still warmer in Brisbane! ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 18 May 1996 01:24:02 GMT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: G C Allison Subject: Re: Honey in the comb >Christian Schulte asked > Does anyone know a practical system to win honey-in-the-comb? I > don't want to cut the comb but I am looking for (plastic-?) frames > that can easily be covered for selling after harvesting. > Christian, Have you considered round sections, they are expensive to set up as you need a special super and I find the bees are reluctant to move into them (as they are with most sections), but the end product is very attractive. I have no contacts for them on mainland Europe but in the UK you can buy them from: Steele & Brodie, Scotland - email: steele&brodie@ taynet.co.uk Thornes, England - email: thorne @dial.pipex.com Geoff Allison Dalbeattie, Scotland ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 18 May 1996 11:08:58 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Albert W. Needham" Subject: Re: swarm prevention for the hobbiest? I am a small hobbyist with two hives at the moment. I don't find swarming a problem. Last year I had a hive swarm "eleven" times that I know of-obviously poor management on my part. One that was 'reachable' was snagged by a friend - I 'snatched' one for myself - the others went way up in the trees and and took off within ten minutes or so. If I , or a friend, can't have them, that's okay with me - adds to the ferals - which seem to me need to be added too after the mite decimations. BTW - for those who may be interested, my software program has changed its name from "BeeWorks" to "The HoneyBee" - more descriptive. It is about 80% completed at the moment, with the addition of some more great close-up photos from fellow BEE-L'er P-O Gustafsson. A couple of you have contributed some great stories. I also appreciate the fact that nobody objected to the use of the BEE-L "Best & Worst Honeys" opinions being used in the program. Once again when it is finished I will post that info to BEE-L - where it is uploaded too, or how it can be obtained from me. Al Needham "Hobbyist" Scituate, MA, USA Alwine@aol.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 18 May 1996 08:50:47 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Roy Nettlebeck Subject: Re: Supering In-Reply-To: <319C9A9F.4652@avana.net> On Fri, 17 May 1996, Rick Grubbs wrote: > I have heard a couple of different methods of supering. I have been told > to wait till all of the frames are drawn completly then add another > super, and some say to super when they have drawn 7 frames. Also is top > or bottom suppering better? > Hi Rick , Part of this is straight forward.Give the bees plenty of room to dry and store honey. Now that is the bottem line. Some honey flows come fast and short and some may go on for a month.It has been said , that there are pheromones in drawn out comb that will get the bees out gathering honey faster then foundation or nothing. I have a rule, when I'm up in the mountains going after fireweed honey , I start with 3 supers on day 2.Day one is moving them up and thats an all day job.Now the rest is up to Mother nature. If it gets warm - hot the fireweed will flow like water.I have had a deep with foundation put on on one sunday and went back on the next sunday and found it drawn out and full, plus being capped.It is better in the spring to put more on than less. Maybe that is just positive thinking, but it works for me. I do bottem supering most of the time. It is one of those , how many hives your working and are you going fishing after your done.I bet some expert can tell us , what is the best to relive congestion in the top of the hive and which way it is easier for the bees to ripen the honey. ( dry it out to 18 % or less. Two years ago I did get a good flow of fireweed that came in at 14,6 %. I had it judged at the Washington State fair. I did get a first place with it and did not filter it at all. Your the beekeeper and over time,you will get to know how many supers to start with.Maybe one if your just starting up a new hive.If your bees are working hard give them room to dry the nectar. Best of Luck Roy ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 18 May 1996 12:34:58 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Jeffrey R. Tooker" Subject: Change of address All: My e-mail address has changed as noted above. Thank you Jeffrey ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 18 May 1996 16:29:00 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Jeffrey R. Tooker" Subject: Pollen All: I have some questions about pollen. First I live east of Redding Ca. up in the Ponderosa pines. When the Ponderosas are disbursing pollen the air gets heavy with pollen and everything has pollen on it. The local beekeeper says that the bees do not use it, however I do not know why the bees should not use it. I got my bees up to the house after most of the Ponderosa pollen, however I saw some bees working the trees so I thought they were after the pollen. The pollen of the Ponderosa comes about the same time as the Manzanita bloom (March). Do bees use pine pollen? All input greatly appreciated. Regards Jeffrey ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 18 May 1996 20:57:20 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Bill Miller Subject: Re: Good management and swarm prevention On the recent subject of swarm prevention and splits, I am a fan of making nucs (small splits) early in the spring (first week of April for us in Maryland). These small splits are given 4 medium frames of brood (I run an all medium operation), and a new queen. These nucs are later sold for $40 each, with a good market. The main colonies benefit from the nuc as a swarm prevention measure, local beekeepers get new colonies, and I get some cash for my efforts. W. G. Miller Gaithersburg, MD ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 19 May 1996 01:02:00 GMT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Andy Nachbaur Organization: WILD BEE'S BBS (209) 826-8107 LOS BANOS, CA Subject: PollenAll: >From: "Jeffrey R. Tooker" >Date: Sat, 18 May 1996 16:29:00 -0700 >Subject: Pollen >Do bees use pine pollen? All input greatly appreciated. Hi Jeffrey, Not that I have ever seen in California. I have collected much pine pollen and tried to interest the bees in consuming it without much success. Looking at it under a low power microscope you can see that it looks like "hard round spheres", suggesting it would not do them much good if they were forced to eat it. This is common in plants that produce heavy amounts of pollen of low food value to honeybees such as some of the palm trees which can produce pollen by the kilo per bloom stalk. Some date palm pollen is so hardy that it can be stored at room temperature for years without loss of vitality as far as female palm trees flowers go and is taken off the shelf the next year in hand pollinating to make the dates. No nearly as sexy as having the bee's do it as they do with many other flowers. If you have bees in the manzanita belt your bees should be able to find much pollen and do well except in the few years when the manzanita will bloom so early in the season that nothing else is in bloom. This is common in the costal manzanita but I have not seen it reported for your area. Manzanita is one of the plants that can bloom almost anytime after the first rains and can bloom more then once in a season, not common but it does happen once or twice in a lifetime. There are at least 50 verities of manzanita in California and some have been increased for roadway, and home garden use. The honey can be water white, has a distinct flavor when first extracted which will change if it is allowed to stand in the honey tank for a day or two, and granulates to the consistency of bon bon cream relatively fast. It is seldom sold as manzanita honey and much can be mixed with orange honey to extend that crop. Years ago when gasolene was cheep many hives were place in the manzanita of northern California to build up and fill up and then moved to the citrus of southern California to make very big crops of orange honey. ttul OLd Drone- (c) Permission is granted to freely copy this document in electronic form, or to print for personal use. (w)Opinions are not necessarily facts. Use at own risk. --- ~ QMPro 1.53 ~ ... Where bee-hives range on a gray bench in the garden, ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 18 May 1996 21:36:44 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Roy Nettlebeck Subject: Beekeeping and Varroa Hi All, I went to a farmers market today to look around with a friend. The beekeeper at the market puts his bees with mine up in the mountains for fireweed honey.He is in his 60's and would run about 10 hives.He lost 9 this winter and is about to keep only one at home. I have spent all day thinking about Clyde , the beekeeper.He is a good friend and is very active. I have been preaching about , keeping as many people as possible in beekeeping.Here I'm finding out first hand what a real problem Varroa has been to the small beekeeper and hobbiest. I lost 50 hives myself , so I have a bad taist in my mouth also. Getting mad will do nothing to solve the problem. This list is a very good tool.We have people working on the problem with Varroa. Genetic control is the fix. It will take time and a lot of work. If we like it or not beekeeping is changing. We need to change and need more education to move ahead. Sue Cobey is putting on her class on instrumental Isemination in June. I wish I was able to do it this year.We need more breeders working with I I . It changes the playing field for us to improve our stock. God gave us a great tool that sits on our neck. The more in use , the faster we keep improving.Demming taught Japan a couple simple things to do and they gave are car companys major problems.Give the customer what he/she wants at the best price possible. Improve your product all the time.You can give your technology that you are using today because it should be obsoleet next year for you.How that fits into Biology is simple.We need to change the normal way of solving problems.We called it a paradighm shift where I worked before I retired.When you fly in the clouds , you don't know what you may run into.I like Bee-l and I have learned a lot and have met some very great people over this machine. I was checking out moecular biology for a few months to see how the PhD's were using it for there good. I was ammazed at how free they were with info the they were working on. One person asked a question and recieved 52 responces and in that info he was able to take a short cut and save a lot of time redoing what someone allready have accomplished. We need to work on the edge , we need to get behind the genetic solution to the Varroa problem.The USDA needs some queens that show some resistance and we need to make shure our PhD's have a flat playing field to work on , like some genetic stock that could be cleared by the USDA. There are people all around the world that want to solve the same problem. Everyone of us can do just one thing to help. Even if it is keeping someone in beekeeping. We need to look at this a problem that has not been solved as of now.Keep studying the mite until we know how every little part works and why. I really do want to thank all the researchers that have been working on the mites. TM did get some great people after that one and it needs just a little attention with grease pattys to keep it in check.The genetic side has worked also. Thanks for your time , as you can see , I hate to loose any beekeepers ,the Lord gave us the honeybee and we are to take care of it with his help. Best Regards Roy ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 19 May 1996 09:14:49 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Jeffrey R. Tooker" Subject: Roy Nettlebeck/varroa stuff Hello all: I have been watching this varroa thread for some time. I read Roys post this morning and got to thinking. Roy is correct we have in the list an ideal vehicle to use for collecting information and helping each other to find the solution to a common problem VARROA. The solution will not be fast in comming, and will have many band-aid fixes (i.e. Apistan) on the way. I have also seen a number of people put in their $.02 and most of my questions and conclusions stem from these items. I am going to setup a folder in my e-mail just for this thread (I hope it goes), because if enough of us gather enough ideas and observations in one place someone (from within this list or without) may make a conclusion which leads to a solution for VARROA. Now for my $.02 for today. Someone in a post a while back said that VARROA was a paracite. They also said that it killed its host (apis m.) and this is not the way for VARROA to best survive as a paracite. I think in Asia where VARROA came from it is a paracite. Apis c. is mite resistant. Also I would believe that there are in Asia some conditions and natural agents which keep VARROA in check. Anywhere there are apis c. VARROA is a paracite. Where there are apis M. it is a predator, because it kills its host. In the western world VARROA has moved so fast because it has no natural enemies. I wonder what keeps VARROA in check in Asia? It would seem that if we knew what controlled VARROA in Asia we would be better off. Is there anyone out there who might be closer to this info. than we are? Maby the Aussies or the New Zelanders might have a line. I have heard from a lot of places but not much from Natal and South Africa. What is VARROA doing down there? Thank you Jeffrey ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 19 May 1996 09:58:46 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Jeffrey R. Tooker" Subject: Swarming Andy Nachbauerand and all: I am concerned about my hive (1) swarming. I only get up to it every couple of weeks. This is where I am at present. I started with a four frame nuc.(new queen) in a deep body, with six frames of foundation, and fed all the 1/1 syrup they would take (about a quart a day). In two weeks they were working hard on the tenth frame, so I put on a ten frame super, no excluder. The last I knew the bees were still taking a lot of syrup and a lot of the bees were foraging and were coming back with pollen that I could see. There is no flow on now but the bees seem to be doing O.K. I am trying to get them built up by the first of July when the star thistle flow should start. It seems by what I read my best solution might be to split the hive then recombine the two at the end of the year. If yes then when and how? All input appreciated. Jeffrey ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 17 May 1996 23:11:48 +0100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Gordon Scott Subject: Re: Good management and swarm prevention In-Reply-To: <199605171449.KAA07286@segwun.muskoka.net> On Fri, 17 May 1996, David Eyre wrote: > Just goes to show!! That the bees don't read the same books as us. No, they don't :-) > Someone > said that he has seen a hive swarm leaving open brood, but I don't think > that's the norm!! > I think the presence of eggs means the queen would be too big to > fly, as one thing they do is too slim the queen down, before they leave. I have to say that I have often seen one or two-day old eggs in swarmed colonies in the UK. Regards, -- Gordon Scott gordon@apis.demon.co.uk gordon@multitone.co.uk (work) The Basingstoke Beekeeper (newsletter) beekeeper@apis.demon.co.uk Embryo Home Page Beekeeper; Kendo 3rd Dan; Sometime sailor. Hampshire, England. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 19 May 1996 18:53:31 +0100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Sid Pullinger Subject: Swarming To all unlucky swarmchasers, Much discussion recently on the problems of swarming. There is clearly much confusion amongst beginners. As one who has checked for swarms over many years may I be permitted a few observations based on everyday experience. Firstly swarming is the bees' method of procreation. This is the most important urge in every life form that wishes to continue living on this planet. Honeybees chose this method millions of years ago and although we have been trying to domesticate them for the past 5000 years they carry on in their own sweet way and we must accept it. Books generalise on swarming. You read that young queens are less likely to swarm. That is true but some young queens will swarm so you can never be sure. Congestion causes swarming. Partly true but if the bees are intent on swarming all the efforts of the beekeeper to open up the broodchamber, shift brood, give foundation and supers, etc., will not stop them. Swarms go as soon as the queen cells are capped. Usually true but hot weather will drive them out early before capping and wet or cold weather may delay them for several days. The thread recently about looking for eggs to determine whether the bees have or have not swarmed is a strange one. The presence or absence of eggs has little meaning as bees will swarm leaving open larvae and eggs or open larvae and no eggs or no open larvae and no eggs. The only true indication lies in the queen cells present and they are obvious to anyone. No queen cells, no swarming. Open queen cells with larvae, swarming on its way. Capped queen cells, bees have gone or are about to go. Open mature queen cells with some torn down, the swarm has gone, leaving a virgin who has gone round destroying her rivals. The reason for little open brood is because for several days the bees have forced the queen to reduce egg laying in order to slim down and be physically fit for flying. This condition will vary from stock to stock. The decision to swarm takes place at least a fortnight before the swarm leaves. The bees have to manufacture queen cups and persuade the queen to lay in them. This is not done in one day so the beekeeper will find larvae at different stages of development. It takes around ten days from when the egg is laid to when the cell is capped and the bees are ready to go. During this time the queen's egg laying drops off and the bees hang around the hive appearing less willing to work. Is the choice of who is to go and who to remain a chance thing or is it regulated? Only the bees know that one. We do know that the division is variable, but approximately half the bees go, a mixture of nurse bees, wax makers and foragers, even drones although they are not needed at this stage. If the swarm gets away, the chance of a honey crop is negligible, at least in my part of the world. I have a short season, May, June and early July. By the time the stock is up to strength the flows are nearly over. If the swarm is taken it goes back to whence it came, to keep the stock at full strength. If the swarm is hived separately it may give a surplus in the first few weeks but it will steadily dwindle away for the first five weeks. It is well known that the stronger the stock the greater the honey yield per bee and one strong stock will produce more surplus than three weak ones. For me the art of beekeeping lies in maintaining the stock at maximum strength for the duration of the nectar flows. May is usually the best month but this year May is colder than April and the bees are still living on their stores. Fields of rape and fruit blossom everywhere and it is too cold for the bees to fly. The one and only way to prevent swarming is to have a rigorous routine check of the brood combs every seven or eight days. I say rigorous because the main fault with beginners is that they are not careful enough. Some cells are well hidden and you only have to miss one and the swarm is away. If you miss a three day old egg in a queen cup (very easily done) the bees might be away before the next check. Combs must be shaken or brushed clear of bees. If you intend using the cells for increase you must brush, not shake. The advice to cut out all cells might well be followed the first time round if things have caught you unprepared. However, repeated cutting out is useless. The queen will be laying few eggs when you want a lot and the bees will be working half-heartedly. I must admit to being puzzled about the advice to split. Is it because nectar flows in America are longer and richer than here? If I split a colony to prevent swarming by the time they had built up to strength the season would be over. Over the years many beekeepers have gone into print with their method of swarm control. I use a variation of a system first put forward by George Demaree, a respected American beekeeper, in 1884. Now 112 years old, I think it is still the best. Full details will be found in any good bee book. An afterthought. Is it swarming or supersedure? If the stock is a poor one and there are a few cells at the same level of development, it is supersedure. If the stock is strong and thriving why should the bees want to supersede? S H P _________________________________________________________________ Sid Pullinger Email : sidpul@aladdin.co.uk 36, Grange Rd Compuserve: 100343.1216@compuserve.com Alresford Hants SO24 9HF England ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 19 May 1996 13:18:10 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Doug Russell Subject: Re: Supering At 12:02 PM 5/17/96 CDT, Ray Nabors wrote: > The most productive method of supering is to place the second super on > top of the brood chamber when the first super is half full or half > drawn out. The first super should be full and ready to come off when > the third super is placed over the brood nest. The second super should > be half full by that time. This keeps only two supers on the bees at > all times and encourages them to work. If you have 100 out yards with > 25 colonies in each this method would be rediculous so you put on all > three at once. If you are a one apiary beekeeper, this is more often > than not the most productive method. > The next question is what do you do with the full super you take off? Most hobby beekeepers like myself do not have a permanent extraction area set up. If I took off each super as it was filled, even with my 10-15 hives, I would have to setup and cleanup at least 3-5 times each summer. This would make for a very mad wife as I extract in my kitchen. As soon as I finish my honey house, this method sounds like it would be worth trying. Another possible consideration here in La is that the mass of filled supers acts as a heat sink to stabilize the hive temp. variations with the extremely strong sun and insulate the brood nest. This way the bees don't spend so much time cooling the hive and can perform other tasks. Is this valid? ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 19 May 1996 22:47:56 +0100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Gordon Scott Subject: Re: Comments & suggestions appreciated In-Reply-To: <199605171649.CAA15863@eastend.com.au> On Sat, 18 May 1996, David. E. Goble wrote: > Looking at your hive every six days is creating the situation > for your bees to swarm, at the start of spring your whole hive > should be inspected for swarming cells and the state of your > hive, then if you keep placing more supers on this hive, you > are allowing the bees to store nectar and return to you. David may well be right, but as usual it's not as easy as that. I'm interested in peoples thoughts:- At the start of spring (usually late March/early April, but this year we seem to be still still waiting) they will not normally be trying to swarm. Swarming is usually late April through to the end of June, but I have seen them at the end of July. I don't know whether or not we can realistically use non-UK swarm control measures -- the usual response here is that "It's all right for them (US/CA/Aus/NZ etc.), they have far more space for swarms to go without causing a problem -- in the UK, there just isn't the space". Let me describe my setup here and see what the views are. From the stuff I read on bee-l, I do wonder if the UK practices really are sensible. I guess I'm a fairly typical UK hobbyist beekeeper, though maybe more inquisitive than many. Bees are a hobby for me and it matters not to me whether I get a honey crop (I started beekeeping for pollination), so I'm in a position to throw away the UK rule book and start learning again. The normal arrangement for a hive in the UK differs from many other places. In Hampshire we also differ from much of the rest of the UK. My hives are Langstroth plan but MD depth frames (the Langstroth 'jumbo') and I use a single brood box, follower board and QX. This is reckoned by most here to be the optimum brood box for our climate, although a few think this brood box is too *big*. The consensus here is that we need that level of compactness so that we get a crop in the supers and not in the brood nest from where it's difficult to cleanly remove. The official honey crop figures for the UK are around 50lb per colony per year, which is about two supers full, though in the last few years, most have done much better (around double?), so it may be we are just not used to the warm weather we've had in the recent past. If I'm not mistaken, we've just had the longest run of high crops this century. This year is *cold*. I don't think we've yet gone above 14C (60F) and at the moment it's about 10C (50F), raining and blowing a gale (literally). However, all of our colonies except one has already been spilt. Several people have bees trying to swarm whilst not even using the supers. Maybe that's due to those QXs. I try to look at our bees every weekend, but the changeable weather makes the interval variable. If they're making swarm cells, normally I will cut them out when I first see them and If they appear again, I will artificially swarm the colony. If I get desperate for equipment, I'll remove the queen and all cells but one. This is not a nice procedure for either the bees or me. I try to replace older queens in the autumn (fall), so I have young new queens the following spring. This year's queens are rarely ready before the middle of May, by which time it's too late to requeen, IMHO. I had a colony start this year in a double brood box and was tempted to try operating them like that, however several much more experienced beekeepers that I said not to try it as the colony would be unmanageable and I would be lucky to get any crop at all. They also said the brood box would be very heavy and I have to agree with that as I usually lift them alone. Our climate is western maritime, I think rather like Vancouver Island, cooler and less moderate than Cristchurch N.Z, warmer and more moderate than Chicago. The population of England & Wales is 370/km2, compared to NY state 140/km2, NZ 10/km2 and CA/Aus around 1 or 2/km2. PS -- I've just seen on the news that it's snowing on Dartmoor! Best regards, -- Gordon Scott gordon@apis.demon.co.uk gordon@multitone.co.uk (work) The Basingstoke Beekeeper (newsletter) beekeeper@apis.demon.co.uk Embryo Home Page Beekeeper; Kendo 3rd Dan; Sometime sailor. Hampshire, England. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 19 May 1996 17:52:52 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Bill Miller Subject: Re: Good management and swarm prevention Fall requeening is one of the better swarm prevention measures. Colonies with queens going into their second heavy buildup period are far more likely to swarm than colonies with queens going into their first heavy buildup period. Queens are cheaper in the fall too. W. G. Miller Gaithersburg, MD ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 19 May 1996 15:38:58 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Jeffrey R. Tooker" Subject: Re: PollenAll: >If you have bees in the manzanita belt your bees should be able to find >much pollen and do well except in the few years when the manzanita will >bloom so early in the season that nothing else is in bloom. This is >common in the costal manzanita but I have not seen it reported for your >area. Manzanita is one of the plants that can bloom almost anytime after >the first rains and can bloom more then once in a season, not common >but it does happen once or twice in a lifetime. There are at least 50 >verities of manzanita in California and some have been increased for >roadway, and home garden use. The honey can be water white, has a >distinct flavor when first extracted which will change if it is allowed >to stand in the honey tank for a day or two, and granulates to the >consistency of bon bon cream relatively fast. It is seldom sold as >manzanita honey and much can be mixed with orange honey to extend that >crop. Years ago when gasolene was cheep many hives were place in the >manzanita of northern California to build up and fill up and then moved >to the citrus of southern California to make very big crops of orange >honey. Andy Nachbaur: Thank you for your Informative response. I just Talked to my father in law who along with his R.V. is summering at my place east of Red Bluff. He said the passed two or three days it rained a lot up there. The bees stayed in and did not consume much syrup. Today however he says it is sunny and they are going like gang busters. About the manzinita at my place. It blooms best in wet years like the last few. However this means a good number of "no fly" days for the bees,so I guess it is a crap shoot. The beekeeper up here says that they build up with the manzinita flow in the spring. I would like to have manzinita for my self and I can feed syrup if that is what it takes. What is the solution to getting the bees up to harvest an early flow? There are about two months between the manzinita and the star thistle, which should be able to be used for build up and apistan treatment. Thank You Jeffrey ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 20 May 1996 11:13:13 GMT+1200 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Nick Wallingford Organization: Bay of Plenty Polytechnic Subject: Re: PollenAll: > >Do bees use pine pollen? All input greatly appreciated. Being primarily dependent on wind pollination, such plants as pine trees produce *large* quantities of *low value* pollen (ie, low protein level, if nothing else...). Australian researchers some years ago did some very informative work on protein content of various pollens, correlating it to the protein levels in the haemolymph of the bees, showing that in the leadup to a nectar flow, it was essential to get the protein levels up by taking the hives to a pollen producing area several months before. I could (maybe) find the references if anyone is interested. ------------------------------------------ Nick Wallingford President - National Beekeepers Assn of NZ NZ beekeeping: http://www.wave.co.nz/pages/nickw/nzbkpg.htm work nw1@boppoly.ac.nz home nickw@wave.co.nz ------------------------------------------ ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 19 May 1996 19:41:25 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Maynard R. Thompson" Subject: Re: Swarming/Queen Substance. In-Reply-To: <199605191753.SAA05555@beta.aladdin.co.uk> I was having a conversation with a fellow bee keeper today. We were discussing the role of the QUEEN SUBSTANCE. In our discussion the levels of queen substance distributed throughout the hive would become lowered under two circumstances. In the first circumstance there could be an abundance of bees which would lead to the distribution of Q.S. over a greater number of bee's thus making the bees prepare to swarm as a function of diminished Q.S.per bee. In the second condition whereas the queen may begin to fail or weaken, again the quantity or quality of the Q.S. changes significantly to signal supercedure. Any thoughts on this or is there info available regarding these thoughts. Thanking the list in advance! Maynard - mthompso@MAIL.coin.missouri.edu ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 19 May 1996 21:25:18 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Albert W. Needham" Subject: Re: Comments & suggestions appreciated Gordon: Topic: Weather. Interestingly, your weather seems to have been/is about the same as here In New England-at least seaside 30 miles south of Boston, Massachusetts. One fine day, it will simply swing into "hot as hades", missing Spring altogether, and we will all want to run about naked to keep cool! Get a halfway decent day and the ladies are out in force - next day or two or three - cold /damp- the ladies stay inside for the most part - wouldn't care to open it up and check their disposition! I sometimes wonder "if Spring is a figment of my childhood imagination". :-(( Al Needham Hobbyist Scituate, MA, USA Alwine@aol.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 19 May 1996 20:42:20 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Joel Govostes Subject: Re: Swarming/Queen Substance. Once on a college bee exam (hey, i was at Cornell, i HAD to take the bee course!) there was a question about swarming (What's it caused by?). I answered with the usual stuff - congestion of the brood nest,etc. I also had a great idea while answering this question, and put down that with the increased population the concentration of queen substance was less (per bee, i mean). Doc Morse graded the exam and when i got it back there was an emphatic "NO!" sprawled across that part of my answer. Never did get to ask him about it. Still seems plausible to me. If this were the case, then maybe inserts like apistan strips, but with queen substance in them would allow for larger populations and more congestion without the swarming impulse arising...? If anybody can add to this, about queen substance, i'd appreciate more info too. Thanks muchly, JWG ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 19 May 1996 21:02:04 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Joel Govostes Subject: Re: Swarming, UK and North America Thanks, Sid for your supplement to this thread. The comparisons are very interesting - management is timed somewhat differently and there are certain traditions that become much of a routine. In short, yes, we can make splits and still get a good crop, at least in much of the Northeast, because the diversity of forage allows for honey flows from May until October, with a pretty reliable fall flow from aster and goldenrod. I know some beekeepers around here (upstate NY) who split ALL their colonies and build them up on the early flows, to concentrate on the Aug-Oct flows and they get enormous crops, while nipping the swarming problem at the same time. Not that each nectar source yields every year, but overall we can get a crop from a number of (potential) nectar flows thru the season. It's not so much whether or not you get a crop, but what does the crop consist of? This makes things interesting -- you never know what the predominant honey will be when it comes to extracting. Last year, unfortunately, it was honeydew! Sometimes i've made splits in May that barely made enough to winter on. Other years they fill four supers with honey besides. Most years they'll get you 2 supers anyway, nicely full. I consider myself fortunate to be in this part of the country for beekeeping. In the UK you have to depend so much on rape i guess, which is EARLY, and the bees like to swarm on that flow! I got several supers filled one spring at an outyard with canola (rape) since there were some gorgeous fields of it blooming nearby. Majority granulated solid well before it ever got near the extractor. It was amazing - like a brick! What i did extract had a nice but somewhat bland flavor. That yard is no longer situated there since the mites did them in. Rape is more of a trial crop around here but it is getting some promotion and may become much more common. I wonder if goldenrod predominates anywhere there (UK). Around here, every single field that is not being cultivated is chock full of goldenrod and during bloom the countryside is spread with yellow, from about Sept. until frost. I think goldenrod is grown as an ornamental in the UK but does it also grow wild? Thanks, JG ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 19 May 1996 22:01:23 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Rick Grubbs Organization: Beekeeper Subject: Re: Good management and swarm prevention Bill Miller wrote: > > Fall requeening is one of the better swarm prevention measures. Colonies > with queens going into their second heavy buildup period are far more likely > to swarm than colonies with queens going into their first heavy buildup > period. Queens are cheaper in the fall too. > > W. G. Miller > Gaithersburg, MD When in the fall is the best time to requeen? -- *************************** * Charles (Rick) Grubbs * * digital@avana.net * * Douglasville, Ga SE USA * *************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 19 May 1996 21:10:00 GMT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Andy Nachbaur Organization: WILD BEE'S BBS (209) 826-8107 LOS BANOS, CA Subject: Swarming >From: "Jeffrey R. Tooker" >Date: Sun, 19 May 1996 09:58:46 -0700 >Subject: Swarming >I am concerned about my hive (1) swarming. I only get up to it every >couple of weeks. This is where I am at present. >I started with a four frame nuc.(new queen) in a deep body, with six frames of >foundation, and fed all the 1/1 syrup they would take (about a quart a >day). In two weeks they were working hard on the tenth frame, so I put >on a ten frame super, no excluder. The last I knew the bees were still >taking a lot of syrup and a lot of the bees were foraging and were coming >back with pollen that I could see. There is no flow on now but the bees >seem to be doing O.K. I am trying to get them built up by the first of >July when the star thistle flow should start. Hello Jeffery, In your area swarming season should be just about over, not saying that bees can't swarm anytime, but if you have a young queen and the bees are doing well, lots of brood, pollen and some nectar, maybe it's time to add a super or two and wait for that Star Thistle flow. You can quit feeding them if they have a frame or two of honey as you don't want your honey to taste,,,yuck like sugar, God forbid.. >It seems by what I read my best solution might be to split the hive then >recombine the two at the end of the year. If yes then when and how? If you want increase or just have the protection of having a 2nd hive just in case, yes you can make a divide. It will cost you in surplus honey production for your first hive when the main flow starts. But with it still a month or more away you may get lucky.. One way to do that is first find the queen in the old hive as you don't want to have her end up in the new hive or divide. Have a 2nd hive body or a 4 or 5 frame nuc box add one frame of honey & bees, and two or three frames of heavy brood as much sealed with the bees adhering to these frames, and one young queen from your local supplier. One of the best is Oliver Hill (don't have his address in hand but he is off of highway 5 at Williams I think, don't quote me on that). And I believe you are close enough to him to pick one up are your way up to your cabin. In any case it is always better to pick up your bees and queens from the bee breeder if at all possible. Also its one of the best ways to pick up on a few tricks that may be helpful in keeping your bees productive. No beekeeper knows too many other beekeepers and much of what is is know about hands on beekeeping has never been put in any book or taught at any school. All us old beekeepers hold back a little when talking with reporters, authors, and bee academics. Don't know why, just something to do with the law's of nature and protecting the craft. Same as all real beekeepers have one of those "bee" buckles holding up their pants and are always easy to spot in a group of real people as are bee women with their bee pins. All this you can confirm with the real OLd Drone, Dr. Roger Morse still hanging out at Cornell but retired I hear. Make up the divide as above, add the queen, making sure the cork is out of the candy hole. Place the queen between two frames of brood below the wood top bar, candy hole down at a angle to the brood combs to minimize the increased space between the two combs because of the cage. Close up the hive and don't mess with it for a week or two. If you can not move the hive to a new location most of the older bees you transferred with the combs will fly back. You can overcome this loss by shaking a couple of frames of hatching brood with young bees into the divide when you make it, or close up the hive entrance with several layers of masking tape which should take them several days to chew their way out, by then more bees should have hatched out and the older bees that return to the old site will not be missed. Another easy way is to place the new hive in the same place the old hive was and move the old hive a few feet away. This way you will bee getting the majority of the field bees in your new hive and be sure the candy in the queen cage is significant enough to keep the bees from releasing the queen for a day or two as these older bees do not look to kindly on a new queen and will take a day or two to acquire the new hive odor. If you do it this way you are coming closer to a real 50/50 divide and it will take several weeks for the old hive to come back to the strength it was depending on how much brood you left with it, and you would need to use a real hive body for your divide and not a nuc box as it will need the room much faster. Both methods work better if there is a light honey flow. With two hives you will have to be more cautious with feeding them to prevent one from robbing the other out. You can reduce the entrance to a few inches as they don't need it wide open until the weather turns real hot depending on your location. Good Luck, ttul Andy- (c) Permission is granted to freely copy this document in any form, or to print for any use. (w)Opinions are not necessarily facts. Use at own risk. --- ~ QMPro 1.53 ~ ... To sway its silent chimes, else must the bee, ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 19 May 1996 19:41:39 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Jeffrey R. Tooker" Subject: Re: Preferred Poison. Hello all: I got some borax laundry additive two weeks ago. I think my wife said it was less than $5 for five pounds. Well I mixed 1/1 syrup with about 1/2 part borax. Got a super saturate solution had some on the bottom. Put some in a small pickle jar about 1/4 full. Put some 16d nail holes in the lid. Set it on its side at about 30 deg. under the hive. In a couple of hours it was killing ants. They go in the jar and never come out. Bees can't get in so it seems to be O.K. Thank you Don Bowen. Later JRT ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 20 May 1996 16:05:21 GMT+1200 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Nick Wallingford Organization: Bay of Plenty Polytechnic Subject: Re: Swarming/Queen Substance. > had a great idea while answering this question, and put down that with the > increased population the concentration of queen substance was less (per > bee, i mean). Doc Morse graded the exam and when i got it back there was > an emphatic "NO!" sprawled across that part of my answer. I think he was too hard! Its always been one of the simplified explanations I've heard and used. And when the queen begins to age, she just doesn't provide enough pheromone *per bee* to maintain the colony social order, and it leads to swarming... Give yourself half credit and tell them I said it was OK! :) ------------------------------------------ Nick Wallingford President - National Beekeepers Assn of NZ NZ beekeeping: http://www.wave.co.nz/pages/nickw/nzbkpg.htm work nw1@boppoly.ac.nz home nickw@wave.co.nz ------------------------------------------ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 20 May 1996 01:08:28 -0800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jay Jones Subject: harvesting honey --Boundary (ID /xm6hbcVGoYOwuZIXlAKVQ) Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII When harvesting honey, what percentage of uncapped cells can be tolerated without spoilage of the honey? Do the frames need to be almost totally capped? I figure this is a pretty basic question and not of general interest so please send response directly to: jonesj@ulvacs.ulaverne.edu. Thanks! Jay Jones --Boundary (ID /xm6hbcVGoYOwuZIXlAKVQ)-- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 20 May 1996 07:49:19 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Laura Downey Subject: Supercedure and swarming When a swarm takes place due to supercedure, do they take their "old" queen despite her condition? If so, and the queen is ailing and cannot fly any distance, is it possible that the swarm will settle very close to the hive, i.e. beneath the hive if it is placed on blocks, thereby giving a small amount of space to settle? Is the best solution to this situation, if this is indeed what is happening, to hive the swarm? If the queen cannot be found, is it suitable to provide them with a frame or two of larvae? I think this is what is happening with one of my hives. When I got home from work on Friday, it was on the cool side and rainy. There was a _large_ beard of bees on the bottom of the entrance. I knew the bearding wasn't due to hot weather. The bearding was still in place on Sunday. I had checked this hive just a few days prior. I noticed that the queen was there, but rather emaciated. There was larvae present in the hive, but not in any great number. I noticed one or two emergency cells hanging from the middle of the frames. Laura Downey Anne Arundel Co., Maryland corvi29@smart.net ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 20 May 1996 13:19:17 +0100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Matysek Miroslav, Ing." Subject: News from Apimondia Hi everybody, news from Apimondia - Roma, may, 1996. Guess of dead bee colonies on varroa in winter 95/96: World - about 25% (from 50 mil. colonies 13 mil. dead), Austria - about 70%, German - about 45 - 50%, local even 80%, Slovakia - about 35 - 40% and Czech republic - about 20%. (passed by Bee Res. Inst. at Doll near Prague, 252 66 Libcice n. Vl., CZ) Best regards +----------------------------------------------------------+ |Miroslav Matysek | |matysek@zlin.vutbr.cz | |Technical University in Brno | |Faculty of Technology in Zlin | |Department of automatic control | |762 72 Zlin, Czech republic tel., fax: +42 67 721 1521| +----------------------------------------------------------+ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 20 May 1996 08:52:32 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Robert Clarke Subject: Lack Of Honey Bees Greetings from an ex-hobbiest beekeeper in western New York State. Yesterday I mowed approximately 2.5 acres of lawn that was just covered with Dandellions at their peak bloom. It was a warm partially sunny day. I paid close attention and I never saw one Honeybee. In years past there would be bees all over the dandellions on a day like yesterday. Part of the time I was mowing in an orchard with pear and cherry trees in bloom. Not One Honeybee. This is in a rural farming community and not the suburbs. Sad but True!! --bob ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 20 May 1996 09:15:07 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Laura Downey Subject: Re: Lack Of Honey Bees In-Reply-To: As of late, there has been much discussion about the lack of honey bees. We are all aware of the reasons - mites, disease, the hard winter, etc. Prior to the Europeans coming to the New World and bringing honey bees along, what was responsible for pollination? Were there some kind of wild bees here before the Europeans' arrival? Laura Downey corvi29@smart.net ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 20 May 1996 09:14:02 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Mark D. Egloff" Subject: Renegade Queen .... Chapter II After my overwintered queen flew away during manipulations over a week ago, I sweated out the week until I could get into the hive and see what was what. (BTW, thank you all for your advice and response to my original posting. It helped.) Well, this past weekend I got into that hive to see what I could see. Outside observations included bees, lots of them coming in and out, but they must have been bringing nectar, for I saw no pollen capsules. (They may have been there but I did not see them.) Inside, the bees had started drawing out the three round sections I placed on them last week. But, when I looked through the brood chamber, I saw only a couple of frames which contained capped brood. No larvae, no eggs, and no queen. Drats! Since I didn't have another queen handy, I pulled a frame of eggs and young larvae and placed it in this now queenless hive. I can supplement this hive with additional brood from my other existing hives (2) over the next several weeks and I have a queen on order to be delivered later on this month. I do not have any questions, but any observations or advice you all might have would be received with gratitude. I am certain that I am making a big deal out of something that may be a old standard problem for "youse big guys" and as a result no biggie. But for me, that queenless hive represents 33% of my stock and 50% of my overwintered stock. (For the first time in four years I got two hives through the winter without mite kill) so it is a big deal. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 20 May 1996 09:34:16 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Bill Van Roekel Subject: Re: Swarming >Make up the divide as above, add the queen, making sure the cork is out >of the candy hole. Place the queen between two frames of brood below the >wood top bar, candy hole down at a angle to the brood combs to Although I've never seen it happen, I've been cautioned to put the candy hole up in case the nurse bees in the cage die, they will not block the hole preventing the queen's release. If you check the hive in a week or two as Andy suggests, this would not be a problem since you would discover it and either release the queen directly or clear the hole. However, you may miss a few days of laying, especially if you can't get back to your hive for awhile. Roekel Bill Van Roekel Central Iowa ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 20 May 1996 08:55:17 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Steven Albritton Subject: Re: harvesting honey I need to know also. At 01:08 AM 5/20/96 -0800, you wrote: > >When harvesting honey, what percentage of uncapped cells can be tolerated >without spoilage of the honey? Do the frames need to be almost totally capped? > >I figure this is a pretty basic question and not of general interest so please >send response directly to: jonesj@ulvacs.ulaverne.edu. > >Thanks! >Jay Jones > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 20 May 1996 10:02:00 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Mike Beluch Subject: Re: Beekeeping and Varroa.... On Sat, May 18 Roy Nettlebeck wrote: >Everyone of us can do just one thing to help. Even if it is >keeping someone in beekeeping. Roy, I agree wholeheartedly. And with regards to the list, I would like to recount my experiences about starting in beekeeping in the past few years. I am 25 and a novice beekeeper. I have three hives and have been in beekeeping a paltry two years. But the obstacles I've faced are amazing; the misinformation that the general public takes as fact is almost insurmountable. The only reason I even saw a hive of honeybees was because of a planned insecticide experiment at my company. I knew nothing about bees, beekeeping or what a hive looked like. The first time I visited a hive I was suited up like Neil Armstrong. Boy, did I feel silly when a female coworker was out there working the hive in a short skirt and no veil !!!! Honeybees are wonderful and (generally) docile creatures. But they have a terrible reputation, due mostly to mis-identification of yellow jackets as honeybees. In any case most people do want anything to do with them !! But this year, my enthusiasm has won out. I was able to bring two former beekeepers out of retirement, and I have so far recruited two new ones, who plan to keep their first hives next season. I have made it my mission to inform anyone who'll listen about beekeeping. I've made home videos of people working the hive to show people what's involved, and how much fun beekeeping can be as a hobby. I tape every PBS show I can about bees & beekeeping, to show people what they can get into. I know that now is probably the toughest time in beekeeping, because of mites and disease, but I sure plan to make it through. In the meantime, at the risk of losing a hive or two, I'm actively escorting neighborhood kids & their parents, etc., to hives to show them just how "cool" it is. As Roy said, our greatest gift as human beings is our ingenuity. We have the ability to adapt both ourselves and beekeeping. As much as we have to curtail disease & pests,we also have to continue to pass on the skills of beekeeping. I don't mean to be rude to my fellow local beekeepers, but around here in NJ, it's a pretty geriatric group. They're great and friendly guys & gals, but very slow to adapt, and in some cases, slow to accept newcomers. Knowledge is our greatest weapon. I apologize for the tirade, I just get very frustrated when I hear of the numbers (and they're quite large this season, it seems) of beekeepers with operations of all sizes folding up. I know economically some larger ones can't possibly help it, but the remaining beekeepers must be open with resources and knowledge to help this hobby (and industry) stay alive. I'll get off my soapbox now. And I certainly apologize if I've ruffled any feathers. That was certainly not my intention. To all you Bee-L subscribers, I'm always looking for new & interesting ways to educate the public. Any ideas are greatly appreciated. Mike Beluch ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 20 May 1996 12:31:56 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Doug Yanega Subject: Re: Lack Of Honey Bees Laura Downey wrote: >As of late, there has been much discussion about the lack of honey >bees. We are all aware of the reasons - mites, disease, the hard winter, etc. > >Prior to the Europeans coming to the New World and bringing honey bees >along, what was responsible for pollination? Were there some kind of >wild bees here before the Europeans' arrival? There were and still are some 3,000 native North American bee species that got along just fine before Europeans came along, including specialist pollinators of things like blueberries, squash, sunflower, and many other native crop plants. Historically, folks have found it simpler to (in essence) assume that honeybees were the answer to everything, and work with them, even if it's sort of a round-peg-in-square-hole sort of fit in many cases. Alfalfa is one of the few crops where honeybees were so bad at pollination that people *did* start long ago to utilize native pollinators instead, and recently there has been increasing use of native pollinators for blueberries and apples (and of course the use of bumblebees as greenhouse pollinators). On the whole though, funding for research into alternative pollinators has been quite scarce - perhaps now there will be more pressure to investigate how to exploit or manage native pollinators for commercial purposes, but one never knows - people may find it easier to simply switch to different crops than to invest in research that might take years to realize a commercial benefit (though one has to wonder how much money has been sunk into disease control and such already). Ideal solutions are not always expedient. Sincerely, Doug Yanega Illinois Natural History Survey, 607 E. Peabody Dr. Champaign, IL 61820 USA phone (217) 244-6817, fax (217) 333-4949 affiliate, Univ. of Illinois Urbana-Champaign, Dept. of Entomology http://www.inhs.uiuc.edu:80/~dyanega/my_home.html "There are some enterprises in which a careful disorderliness is the true method" - Herman Melville, Moby Dick, Chap. 82 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 20 May 1996 14:01:00 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Maleta, Donald M @ VFL" Subject: Mike Beluch effort at education Mike: Great enthusiasm Mike. I could not go without a comment. I like you am thoroughly fascinated by the little girls. I try to educate whenever I get the chance. My suggestion is get an observation hive and go to shows, schools, fairs, Colonial day fests and celebrations of historic sites. I give talks, show the make-up of a hive, how to harvest the honey (simulated right now), and how to do everything connected with bees. The public loves it and they learn a little at the same time. Not boasting (just proud) wherever I go my little girls steal the show! I have more fun than the crowd does! What a hobby! ----------- Pottstown, Pa Don Maleta dmaleta@vfl.paramax.com ----------- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 20 May 1996 11:39:48 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Roy Nettlebeck Subject: Re: Swarming/Queen Substance. In-Reply-To: On Sun, 19 May 1996, Maynard R. Thompson wrote: > I was having a conversation with a fellow bee keeper today. We > were discussing the role of the QUEEN SUBSTANCE. In our discussion the > levels of queen substance distributed throughout the hive would become > lowered under two circumstances. In the first circumstance there could > be an abundance of bees which would lead to the > distribution of Q.S. over a greater number of bee's thus making the bees > prepare to swarm as a function of diminished Q.S.per bee. In the second > condition whereas the queen may begin to fail or weaken, again the > quantity or quality of the Q.S. changes significantly to signal > supercedure. Any thoughts on this or is there info available regarding > these thoughts. Thanking the list in advance! Maynard > Hi Maynard and All, This subject is close to my heart. I don't have many answers, but I know of some of the problems in getting to the answers. Three years ago I started 35 packages from one breeder in California.I had supercedure in about 50% within 2 weeks. The bees were running all over the comb and were making a lot of noise. I did get some pheromones that was part of queen substance. Now I know that there is 5 parts to queen substance.Thanks to some people on this list and Mark Winstons group up in SF in BC CA.9-HDA and 9-ODA was what I used. I would put some on a swab and place it in a hive and it would calm down very fast. So I started reading all I could find on the subject. My Son and I were trying to find a way to measure the level of Queen substance in a hive.My Son is a SR. Chem major at U of Wash.It is very hard to do quantitative analysis of those organic acids in the hive without some special expensive equipment. I have taken out a queen from a hive that was hyperactive and replaced her with a new queen from a different breeder.The hive calmed down in a few minutes. Some bees supercede more often than others. At one time Buckfast queens in the US were hard to keep from superceding, when you were requeening with them.My first feeling on this issue was a genetic problem. I still think that it is a factor.How the queens are produced could be another factor.They need good attention and good young bees to feed them royal jelly. We could have a pathogen that impares the production of pheromones. This issue needs some solid research.By watching bee behavior over a long time , I have seen some changes in brood patterns and supercedure.This is complex and there is probibly more than one answer to the question. I have had hives full of bees in 5 deeps as brood boxs and no swarm cells.The bees were boiling over , when you took the top off.That would limit the amount of queen substance per bee. Look at what the breeders are breeding for. Is it a standard and how many traits do they check? This is not a shot at breeders.The genes work with the enviornment to come up with a given behavior. The only way a breeder knows how there bees are doing is feedback. We are all in the loop. The gene pool that we are working with could be strained a little bit.I'm fishing with this one. I know that there must be a researcher out there that would love to set me straight on that one. This is a very good topic. I know that there are some very good breeders out there that would use some new tools if they were given them. Best Regards Roy ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 20 May 1996 16:27:29 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Tim Peters Subject: Decisions! Decisions! To All: I have been reading the list for about three weeks now...Thanks to friend John Taylor in SE MO for putting me on to this list (Hi John! )....and I guess its now time for me to enter the fray! :) I am a hobbyist keeper in the Northeast Kingdom of Vermont with 7yrs off-on experience. My most beneficial experience has happened in the last three years. This experience has been divided as follows: 1994 - Black Bears; 1995 - Swarming (6-7 from 2 hives); 1996 - ?? I started the winter of 95-96 with five hives. Four made it through. I cautiously report no sign of varroa at this time. Treating with apistan and grease patties as recommended. My hives consist of the following: Hive #1: 2yrs old - Double Hybrid (DH) - very strong Hive #2: 2yrs old - Italian (ITL) - adequate strength Hive #3: 1yr old - DH split from #1 w/new queen - weakened from winter Hive #4: <1yr old - DH ?? hived swarm from last summer - very weak from winter We seemed to have finally cleared the early spring doldrums of cold, rainy weather. Like the song says...we're havin a heat wave!!! Today at 80deg..last week we couldn't break 60! To date I have rotated and cleaned the brood deeps and have gone from 10 frames to nine in the bottom deep. I have scraped off drone comb and inspected for varroa and found none. I treated with terra grease patties in the late fall and left them on through the winter. All patties were consumed. Bears have emerged from their dens and I haven't heard of any hive raids so far....amazing for the winter we've had. I'll leave my bear guard energized until June 1 anyway. #1 hive is going great guns. There is brood covering 6-7 frames in 1st deep, 4-5 frames in 2nd deep. I placed a third deep with foundation on last Wed (5-15) and will be giving them supers later this week. Bees are working at a tremendous pace. #2 hive is disappointing. There is a fair number of bees and 4-5 frames of sealed brood. When I rotated deeps I filled the 2nd deep w/foundation frames. As of the 15th, none of the frames had been drawn out. I'm not too concerned at this point because these girls got started slowly last year. I'm not very impressed with Walter Kelley Italians at this point. Bees working some days..but not as much as #1. #3 hive was started as a split from #1 last year. This hive went into winter almost as strong as #1 & #2 but seemed to take a heavy hit from winter. There is brood on 3-4 frames in well grouped clusters approx 4-5in in diameter. I inspect one day and think they are coming right along...the next time I inspect and I'm left wondering. #4 hive was a captured swarm. As mentioned above, the girls gave me repeated lessons in hive management (or lack thereof) last year. This hive was very weak this spring but it now has a similar brood pattern as #3. Status is about the same as #3. So finally, here are my questions: 1.) As a method of discouraging swarming from #1 should I remove some brood and put them into the other three hives to build their strength? 2:) Should I requeen? I haven't done this with any of the hives to date. I can't seem to find the queen with regularity although I am gradually getting better at it. My thinking has been to let the bees decide when to supercede and only interfere when there is a specific problem (i.e., poor brood pattern, queenless hive, etc.) I know that this is not exactly the best management policy. Be advised that I don't want to reduce the number of hives by combining or increase the number of hives (beyond 5). 4-5 hives will yield a honey crop that I can handle with the resources I have now. I have financial limitations that prevent me from growing larger at this time. For my commercial beekeeping friends...what information is available to someone who wants to know more about becoming a commercial beekeeper? I have turned the idea over in my head from time to time...but I don't have any info to help me take the next step. Thanks to all in advance. Tim Peters, Kirby VT tpeters@kingcon.com I rather be flying! ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 20 May 1996 13:07:22 PDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: John Day Subject: getting free bees hi y'all, i've posted a cupla emails about my advertising for swarm removal. in the last two weeks, i've caught 3 colonies, one a swarm in a bush, the other two in someone's house or garage. the garage deal actually has another colony elsewhere in the garage to be removed, which will bring me up to 7 colonies. i also have two others to go get just as soon as time permits, both in roofs of houses. and someone gave me 3 totally unattended hives that he had in his backyard for 2+ years with no management. all of the above appear healthy, no sign of varroa so far, altho i need to do a much closer inspection when they all settle into their new homes. my point is thus: we all lost colonies last winter. i lost the two hives i kept. buying replacement bees is costly, and you have no assurance that what you'll get will be any better than what you lost. the bees i've been getting from the homeowners lately have all been in their roofs for over 3 years. i can't imagine these to be less than healthy, or that they have been un-exposed to varroa et al. so, since we're all looking for that magic pill, the disease resistant bee, why aren't we all out doing something similar to what i've done - catch the wild ones, and see if we get better results by next spring? i'm very optimistic that i'll have at least one colony survive, and that they would exhibit some disease resistance. put an ad in the local trader under miscellaneous - where the folks buy and sell their junk - it's always read thoroughly. mine read that i'd remove the bees for free. free does the trick. no one wants to pay. i had someone ask me point blank how much, and when i said "not a penny" he said "please come over as soon as you want to remove them" so an hour or two of my time yields a colony worth $30 - 40. incidently, the swarm in the bush that i caught went in textbook fashion. slide a box underneath, give the branch a sharp crack, they all drop in, put the lid on and go. total time was about 10 minutes. amazing. and a whale of a lot of fun. the homeowner was so appreciative, and when i left my name and number, i know he'll call if bees ever come his way again. good relations with the populance plus a lot of education to them. one last item. i gave my name to the local pest control people. they've had me out to a home for a removal. no cost to anyone, and the pest guy was glad he didn't have to deal with the bees. result was a nice 3 year old colony, plus lotsa comb and brood. consider doing this if you can. it's a lot of fun, costs very little and i hope we can get some resistant bees from the deal. frustrating at times, fun at others. beekeeping is a great hobby! Thanks, (\ /) {|||8- -8|||} John (/ \) in Santa Cruz, California ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 20 May 1996 14:02:02 AST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Tom Elliott Subject: Re: Bees in garage Ted Fischer writes "The natural comb will not necessarily fit well into frames. I have tried to prepare frames by nailing a wire mesh (1/2 inch openings or the like) on one side and having another sheet ready to nail on the other side after having placed the comb. If the comb is irregular, it may still not fit well unless you pare down the "fat" places." = = = = = = = I just staple three or four strings along one side of the frame, lay in the pieces of comb, and add string along the other side. This is still messy, but fairly fast. It has the advantage that the bees will remove the string in a few days anyway. I use nine frames so I have fat places in my combs anyway. Also, rather than worry about cleaning up everything, I just let the bees do it. If their queen is in a box nearby they won't stay any longer than it takes to clean up loose honey. At least this is my experience. Tom Elliott Eagle River, Alaska ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 20 May 1996 19:40:37 -0300 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Stan Sandler Subject: Re: harvesting honey >I need to know also. > > > >At 01:08 AM 5/20/96 -0800, you wrote: >> >>When harvesting honey, what percentage of uncapped cells can be tolerated >>without spoilage of the honey? Do the frames need to be almost totally capped? >> >>I figure this is a pretty basic question and not of general interest so please >>send response directly to: jonesj@ulvacs.ulaverne.edu. >> >>Thanks! >>Jay Jones It is difficult to give a definitive percentage, because it depends on the moisture content of both the capped and uncapped honey. I think that 5% would generally be safe, and you might go higher if the uncapped honey is nearly ripe. I don't consider myself any kind of an expert, but I responded mainly to make one point: SHAKE THE FRAMES VIGOROUSLY! If the honey comes out easily then it is quite thin and not suitable for extracting. A little could be shook in with the cappings (already drained) because the melter will concentrate it somewhat. I can't tell you the upper limit of what you can put in because I have not had any honey ferment on me yet, thankfully. I have never had 10% uncapped, but I only harvest and extract once in the fall. The book Hive and the Honeybee has an excellent section on extracting. Good luck and may your honey moisture always stay under 19% Stan ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 20 May 1996 15:21:05 AST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Tom Elliott Subject: Re: "creating the situation" David Goble wrote: "looking at your hive to much, will create stress, which will cause disease or swarming, etc." As a hobbyist, I try to get into my hives every week. I have not had a swarm in 15 years of keeping bees. Nor have I had disease problems. It really depends a lot on how you handle the bees. I use a minimum of smoke and slow deliberate movements. I have watched a queen laying eggs as I held the frame, I have seen "dancing" workers. I really doubt that 'such' manipulations increase swarming. Plus I have never heard that ample supering would do more than reduce the incidence of swarming. Tom Elliott Eagle River, Alaska ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 20 May 1996 23:57:45 GMT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Franklin D. Humphrey Sr." Subject: Re: Supercedure and swarming At 11:49 AM 5/20/96 +0000, you wrote: >When a swarm takes place due to supercedure, do they take their "old" >queen despite her condition? > >If so, and the queen is ailing and cannot fly any distance, is it >possible that the swarm will settle very close to the hive, i.e. beneath >the hive if it is placed on blocks, thereby giving a small amount of >space to settle? > >Is the best solution to this situation, if this is indeed what is >happening, to hive the swarm? If the queen cannot be found, is it >suitable to provide them with a frame or two of larvae? > >I think this is what is happening with one of my hives. When I got home >from work on Friday, it was on the cool side and rainy. There was a >_large_ beard of bees on the bottom of the entrance. I knew the bearding >wasn't due to hot weather. The bearding was still in place on Sunday. > >I had checked this hive just a few days prior. I noticed that the queen >was there, but rather emaciated. There was larvae present in the hive, >but not in any great number. I noticed one or two emergency cells >hanging from the middle of the frames. > > >Laura Downey >Anne Arundel Co., Maryland >corvi29@smart.net > Hi Laura Supercedure and swarming are 2 different functions entirely. Swarming is the bees method of procreation, colony size. The old queen leaves with the swarm unless she has been clipped or is otherwise unable to fly. The bees, will eventually swarm with a virgin queen if the old queen can't join them. Superceedure, on the other hand is the colony's way of replacing what they perceive to be a failing queenand they normaly will not swarm at this time. I say perceived because they will sometimes supersede perfectly good queens. I once had a nuc colony that would not keep a marked queen. They would let the new queen lay for 2 to 3 weeks and kill her then try to raise a new one. I had my queen breeder send me an unmarked queen and she was accepted and allowed continue normal duties Frank Humphrey beekeeper@worldnet.att.net ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 20 May 1996 19:54:00 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: MR MARK G SPAGNOLO Subject: trapping pollen! Hello: Here in Hawaii there is a big demand for pollen. I have 25 hives and a pollen trap (of different types) for each hive. I also have a pollen cleaning apparatus. Does anyone have any hints or tips on collecting pollen? Anything would be appreciated. I have strong colonies with new queens and tight equipment. I have never attempted to trap pollen before, so any information will be appreciated. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 20 May 1996 15:27:00 GMT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Andy Nachbaur Organization: WILD BEE'S BBS (209) 826-8107 LOS BANOS, CA Subject: candy hole up or down BVR>From: Bill Van Roekel >To: Multiple recipients of list BEE-L >Date: Mon, 20 May 1996 09:34:16 -0400 >Subject: Re: Swarming BVR>>Make up the divide as above, add the queen, making sure the cork is out >>of the candy hole. Place the queen between two frames of brood below the >>wood top bar, candy hole down at a angle to the brood combs to BVR>Although I've never seen it happen, I've been cautioned to put the candy >hole up in case the nurse bees in the cage die, they will not block the hol >preventing the queen's release. If you check the hive in a week or two as >Andy suggests, this would not be a problem since you would discover it and >either release the queen directly or clear the hole. However, you may miss >a few days of laying, especially if you can't get back to your hive for awh >Roekel To each his own. If I had my druthers I would not instal any queen with worker bees so that would not be a problem, but realize that many here can not purchase them in bulk packages or do not rear their own and removing the attendants in a queen cage can be done but much care must be given to keeping the queen from flying away or being injured. The idea of having the candy hole down was to prevent it from being flooded with honey if a beekeeper or his helper does not notice and pushes the cage into some nice fat comb filled with honey, many times a problem here in a good spring flow with unskilled help. Beekeeping has never been a avocation that one could follow the text book rules as every hive is an individual and few can read the books anyway so up or down makes little difference as long as the queen get out without injury. --- ~ QMPro 1.53 ~ ... Where bee-hives range on a gray bench in the garden, ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 21 May 1996 13:29:52 +1200 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Andrew Matheson Subject: Bumble bees A new book on bumble bees, just published, is 'Bumble bees for pleasure and profit'. Chapters covered are: Why bumble bees are special Bumble bees at home and at school Bumble bees as pollinators of crops and wild flowers Bumble bees as pollinators of glasshouse crops Commercial rearing of bumble bees This is very much intended for the non-scientific reader; containing lots of practical information in a readable form while still being authoritative. It was published because of the growing interest among beekeepers, gardeners and naturalists in these insects. BBPP is priced at (I think) 7.99 British pounds, with a small surcharge for international mailing. Enquiries to ibra@cardiff.ac.uk ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 20 May 1996 22:32:43 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Wesley A Voigt Jr Subject: Re: harvesting honey In a message dated 96-05-20 04:13:37 EDT, you write: >When harvesting honey, what percentage of uncapped cells can be tolerated >without spoilage of the honey? Do the frames need to be almost totally >capped? > >I figure this is a pretty basic question and not of general interest so please >send response directly to I know this is a basic question, but I do like seeing the answers as well. I have found that I sometimes see something new in an area that I thought I did not need to learn anymore in. I wonder if we self censure ourselfs a little bit too much at times? I guess I would rather see something more that once than missing a gem that could make me a better beekeeper Wesley A Voigt Jr ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 21 May 1996 00:27:29 -0300 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Stan Sandler Subject: Re: Lack Of Honey Bees Part of what Doug Yanega so nicely wrote was: On the whole though, funding for research into >alternative pollinators has been quite scarce - perhaps now there will be >more pressure to investigate how to exploit or manage native pollinators >for commercial purposes.... In this instance I am not sure that it is a problem of lack of research so much as a lack of common sense and a misplacement of priorities on the part of our society. For example, low-bush blueberries, which are marketed as a "wild" crop, simply because the clones are not planted, are sprayed quite heavily with pesticides. I have seen growers spray right in the middle of a sunny day with open bloom (I had to move my hives out) and then come crying to me because there was hardly an insect of any species still moving in that field. In that case supposedly the crop was threatened by spotted geometer grubs, but they could have waited until after pollinators had ceased flying. In most cases the spraying is to control blueberry maggot. This is not a crop threatening pest, but the growers are forced to spray because the processors will not buy the crop if the maggots exceed a tiny number. Ultimately this is the consumers fault. We have to demand NON PERFECT fruit and vegetables. We have to say that we would rather have the odd worm or blemish than the destruction of our own health and that of the environment. The pollinators will probably manage fairly well without our "management" if we would just stop poisoning them. Regards, Stan ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 20 May 1996 23:06:04 -0600 Reply-To: allend@internode.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Allen Dick Organization: The Beekeepers Subject: Re: harvesting honey > >When harvesting honey, what percentage of uncapped cells can be > >tolerated without spoilage of the honey? Do the frames need to be > >almost totally capped? Unfortunately, there is absolutely no direct relationship -- in spite of popular belief to the contrary -- between percentage of capped cells, and moisture content. There *is* a relationship, but it is not direct or consistent. We try to extract before any significant amount of capping takes place unless ambient moisture is high (Rainy weather, etc.) Chances are greater of accidentally extracting nectar during a flow if cells are uncapped - - especially if honey is pulled late in the day, however uncapped honey *can* be quite ripe and ready to extract. If we waited until all the cells were capped here, we would be dealing with honey at 14 - 15% moisture. Far too dry. Like everything in beekeeping, this is an question where rules are a poor substitute for experience and observation. A lot depends on your area and beekeeping style. The old bee people in your own area can best advise -- but be sure to ask several. And try the honey (with a spoon) before extracting. And if you can shake it out of frames, it is definitely too wet. Remember, the moisture will be an average, so if one frame has dry honey, and another wet, the result will be something between. Regards Allen W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper VE6CFK RR#1, Swalwell, Alberta Canada T0M 1Y0 Internet:dicka@cuug.ab.ca & allend@internode.net Honey. Bees, & Art ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 20 May 1996 23:08:59 -0600 Reply-To: allend@internode.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Allen Dick Organization: The Beekeepers Subject: Re: Supercedure and swarming > > If the queen cannot be found, is it > >suitable to provide them with a frame or two of larvae? I know of no situation where adding a frame of eggs and brood would be harmful, and many where it is beneficial. If in doubt... Regards Allen W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper VE6CFK RR#1, Swalwell, Alberta Canada T0M 1Y0 Internet:dicka@cuug.ab.ca & allend@internode.net Honey. Bees, & Art ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 21 May 1996 01:26:11 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Michael Lance High Sr." Subject: Wild bees & natural pollinators Well gang, I've been following this discussion and I have a few obersevations. First, in regard to natural pollinators,yes there are some.Perhaps they COULD do an adequit job.The question is, why do we WANT them to? It almost sounds as if you are saying "Oh well, the honeybee as we know it is doomed, screw bee-keeping, let something else do the pollinating." THIS IS THE WRONG ATTITUDE. What we should say is: What can I do to try & save the honeybee, not just for pollination, but as a source of our hobby/business.Natural pollinators are fine, but what concerns us here is the very survival of the honeybee. My second point is an answer to Doug about picking up feral swarms.I agree this is both fun and profitable,however I don't know about California, but as I've said several times here, there are NO feral swarms I can find in my part of Va. I work at a wastewater treatment plant with several acres of grass/clover(white) mix. I have examined it every day for several months and found NOT A SINGLE HONEYBEE. In years past, it buzzed with them. It reminds me of "Silent Spring". I hope I will yet find a feral swarm or two and further hope they have some mite resistance, but I have grave doubts. Mike "I take my chances,I don't mind working without a net, I take my chances,I take my chances every chance I get" Mary Chapin Carpenter ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 20 May 1996 22:28:53 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Michael Moroney Subject: small swarm I am a not that experienced hobbiest, and right now I have one live hive. I had another hive at a friend's that died over the winter. I caught a small (softball sized) swarm and put it in the dead hive. It seems to have a nice mated queen in it. Can I expect the small swarm to amount to anything? The hive has plenty of honey in it but the pollen is rotten to put it mildly. It's in an area that seems to be very good for pollen and honey (upstate NY). Right now there's plenty of pollen available. In fact the old hive died out partially due to their success (they plugged up their brood chamber with honey, I added empty supers expecting them to move the honey up, they didn't, this+swarming= not enough bees to make it through winter) -Mike ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 21 May 1996 17:32:55 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "David. E. Goble" Subject: Re: Good management and swarm prevention > Some comments were made about good management and swarm prevention. I'd >like to post a few questions regarding this subject. > > I have been told year after year to reverse the brood chambers every 7 to >10 days. This, I am told prevents congestion in the hive. However, I have >read that some believe this does nothing more than disrupt the bees. What >do you all think? What are other more effective alternatives that you have >had success with? > > I have also noted that some people here are convinced that cutting queen >cells is useless since the bees already have it in mind to swarm and nothing >will stop them. If this is true, then how effective is it to cut swarm >cells? Is it even worth doing? Does anyone have success with cutting swarm >cells and preventing swarms? > > Despite the fact that I was not physically able to tend to my hives over >a two week period during swarm season I think that either I averted the >swarm impulse or otherwise the bees had no intentions of swarming, but only >planned to supercede their queen. Under normal circumstances, I make it a >point to get out to the hives at least once per week during swarm season. >Not all of us are fortunate to have someone else do it for us. My husband >has nothing to do with my bees other than to eat the honey they produce. I >hold no grudge because of this. Some people just don't want to deal with >bees. I'd rather not have someone out in my hives who doesn't want to be there. > > As to what may have happened in one of my hives, do you think my bees >were more likely to be superceding their queen or did they really have the >impulse to swarm? I thought there was a way to tell by the location of the >queen cells - if the cells are in the center of the frames, it is a >supercedure, if the cells are on the bottom of the frames, then it is a >swarm impulse. > >Laura >Anne Arundel Co., Maryland >corvi29@smart.net > Dear Laura, Cutting queen cells is poor bee management, a regular inspection of 15 to 25 days in each hive, is all that is required, especially as the brood box of most large beekeepers, (1000 to 3000 hives) is only inspected when the new queen is placed in the brood box when requeening. The aim is to produce honey, so that less disturbance is the better, with a good queen, laying and expanding with honey, as the boxes become full of brood and/or honey or pollen, addition of more boxes or extraction is required, other wise your bees become lasy, and just sit around, then you get cranky bees creating complaints. Thanks from : goble@eastend.com.au http://www.eastend.com.au/~goble degob1@mugc.cc.monash.ed.au ( David Goble ) American Beach Kangaroo Island South Australia ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 21 May 1996 17:33:01 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "David. E. Goble" Subject: Re: Supering >I have heard a couple of different methods of supering. I have been told >to wait till all of the frames are drawn completly then add another >super, and some say to super when they have drawn 7 frames. Also is top >or bottom suppering better? >-- >*************************** >* Charles (Rick) Grubbs * >* digital@avana.net * >* Douglasville, Ga SE USA * >*************************** > Hi Rick, When your top super or brood box is three quarters full of brood and honey, etc. Place a super on the top of this hive, with an excluder to just store honey. However to make the bees stay in this new super, place two frames of hatching brood with no uncupped larvae, and the bees will move up into the new super. This is the simplist method, and keeps the brood out of the honey, ready for extraction. Thanks from : goble@eastend.com.au http://www.eastend.com.au/~goble degob1@mugc.cc.monash.ed.au ( David Goble ) American Beach Kangaroo Island South Australia ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 21 May 1996 10:53:35 +0200 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Serge AMOOS Subject: weighing machine for hives Hello=21 Our school of engineers is working in technology transfer. One of our = projects is the development of an inexpensive automatic weighing machine = for bee hives. It consists of a frame equiped with sensors that takes = place underneath the hive and an electronic pocket instrument for data = acquisition. This instrument can be used for many frames and connected to = a computer. We are interested in knowing the main characteristics of such a device and = would be pleased if you could possibly answer the following questions : 1. What should be the range of measure of the weighing machine? 2. What should be the precision? 3. What would be reasonable price for a frame? 4. What would be reasonable price for a data acquisition instrument? 5. How many hives would you equip with such a device? Thank you for your collaboration. Serge Amoos Ecole d=27ing=E9nieurs du Valais 47, rte du Rawyl 1950 Sion Switzerland phone xx41 27 243 212 fax xx41 27 243 215 e-mail serge.amoos=40eiv.vsnet.ch ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 21 May 1996 10:46:05 GMT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Franklin D. Humphrey Sr." Subject: Beekeeping siminar Hi all The 5th annual Young Harris College-University of Georgia Beekeeping Institute will be held June 14-15 at Young Harris College. The program is 2 days of intense and diverse beekeeping training in the Blue Ridge Mountains of North Ga. Classes for beginners and more advanced beekeepers. Dr. Deleplane is the chief architect of this siminar and will attend along with several outstanding entomologist. I would urge as many beekeepers as can, attend. The cost is $35.00 and dorm rooms have been made available @ $17.00 per night, for those who need accommodations. Frank Humphrey beekeeper@worldnet.att.net ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 21 May 1996 07:49:07 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Dave Green, Eastern Pollinator Newsletter" Subject: Re: Lack Of Honey Bees In a message dated 96-05-20 09:19:56 EDT, you write: >Subj: Re: Lack Of Honey Bees >From: corvi29@smart.net (Laura Downey) > >As of late, there has been much discussion about the lack of honey >bees. We are all aware of the reasons - mites, disease, the hard winter, >etc. > >Prior to the Europeans coming to the New World and bringing honey bees >along, what was responsible for pollination? Were there some kind of >wild bees here before the Europeans' arrival? > There are many species of solitary bees that are native to the new world, and these were effective pollinators. There were also bumble bees, which are highly effective pollinators, still used on crops where the nectiaries are too deep for honeybees to reach. Some solitary bees did not do well in competition with honey bees, and there are those who think the loss of honey bees will stimulate a resurgeance of the wild species. I'm skeptical, unless more is done to encourage and protect them. There are some things to remember. One is that many of our major crops are not native either. They also came from the old world, and have had a long association with honey bees. The second is that farming, prior to the import of honeybees, was on a very small scale, more like we would consider gardening today. Even in my lifetime, the pollination picture has greatly changed. Grandpa was a big grower, if he had three acres of watermelon, or apples. He probably had a dozen wild honeybee trees in the surrounding woods, and a half dozen gums on the farm. His neighbors probably kept bees, too. So he may well have had 5-10 hives PER ACRE. Today the farmer may plant 100 acres of watermelon (and orchards are equivalent) and may not have a single hive within reach. If he puts in bees, he probably still will not use nearly as many as Grandpa had; the best farmers might put in a hive per acre. We can look at the produce and tell easily, if he had enough to do the job. The third point is the most critical -- pesticide misuse. Pesticide labels protect foraging bees ---- if they are enforced -- which I can't ever seem to get around here, even for honeybees. Pesticide labels also protect wild bees, but I know of NO AREA that does it. Pesticide applicators assume there are no bees and ignore the label directions, unless, there is conflict with a beekeeper. If there is, they STILL ignore the label directions, and tell the beekeeper he has to move/protect the bees. Many states have whole systems of notification of beekeepers, all set up to enable the applicators to circumvent compliance with the label directions. During cotton bloom, I could have twenty different applicators, as much as a hundred fifty miles apart, calling to tell me they are going to spray tomorrow, and I have to "protect" the bees. Even If I could do that (I can't), I sure couldn't do anything for the wild bees. We beekeepers have got to stand up and get enforcement of pesticide label directions, because use in violation of these directions is MISuse. Whatever we do to help protect honeybees will also tend to protect wild bees as well. Applicators MUST monitor the bee situation in the application area, and comply with the directions of the specific pesticide. There used to be many wild species in this area of South Carolina, but I can tell you, by many hours of looking for foraging bees, that the only survivors are those whose life cycle does not intersect with cotton bloom. Carpenter bees are still plentiful; they go dormant prior to cotton bloom. And there are a few solitary bees left on fall goldenrod and asters. Ten years ago, I could walk a cotton field and see a dozen different bee species and perhaps a couple thousand individuals, just walking the length of the row. Today, it is unusual, if I see one bumblebee. NOTHING ELSE will be visiting. It is so barren it scares me. There are not ten per cent of the bumblebees around here that there were ten years ago. It is rare to find a nest. I'd like to get some more practice at locating wild bees from the evidence of pollination. Wild plum, blackberries, and many other wild plants are dependent upon bees. Right around my bee yards, these are heavily loaded, most years, while those in areas where I know there are not honeybees, are barren. One could likely locate pockets where there are either wild honeybees, bumble bees, or high concentrations of solitary bees, by the yield on some of the wild plants. I just don't have the time to do serious study. I just observe as much as possible, and believe I do see some things a lot of people miss. This year late freezes messed up all the early fruits, so such studies won't be possible now until next year anyway. Pollinator@aol.com Dave Green, PO Box 1200, Hemingway, SC 29554 Practical Pollination Home Page Dave & Janice Green http://users.aol.com/pollinator/polpage1.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 21 May 1996 08:28:23 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Laura Downey Subject: Re: Supercedure and swarming In-Reply-To: <199605210408.AA16192@internode.net> To those who have replied so far to my question regarding supercedure and swarming, thank you. I want to point out one item. I received a few posts that indicated that supercedure and swarming are not the same event. Yes, I do realize that. The reason I tagged my post as "Supercedure and swarming" is that in one of my beekeeping reference books, it states that supercedure often leads to swarming. Having viewed my queen and noted that she appears to be failing, i.e. not laying adeqately, appearing emaciated, it would make sense that the bees would supercede here. What isn't exactly clear to me is that if a colony supercedes their queen and the supercedure does lead to swarming (according to the reference), why would they want to take the old failing queen with them? No other choice? Allow her to lay eggs in the new colony location and supercede her again? I do realize that if the bees don't take any queen with them, the colony will die in time. But, if the queen can't fly from the original hive, if she crawls out of the hive, is it possible that the swarm will get as far as the front of the hive and stay there? Laura Downey corvi29@smart.net ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 21 May 1996 08:42:33 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ray Lackey Subject: fastening comb in frames When I remove bees from a building and want to salvage the brood comb, I cut it to fit the frame and then fasten it with three or four rubber bands. They go on quick and hold the comb in the frame. The bees chew through the bands within a couple weeks but by then the bees have fastened them in more firmly with wax. A quarter pound of rubber bands of the right size sells for about a $1US around here and will do many removals. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ + Raymond J. Lackey, EAS Master Beekeeper, VP LIBA + + Twelve years exper with 25 colonies on Long Island, NY+ + INTERNET: lackeyr@hazeltine.com + + Mail: 1260 Walnut Avenue, Bohemia NY 11617-2176 + + Home Phone: 516-567-1936 FAX: 516-262-8053 + ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 21 May 1996 09:02:39 EDT Reply-To: mnasr@evbhort.uoguelph.ca Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Medhat Nasr Organization: Environ. Biology & Horticulture Subject: Re: Sampling bee yards for HTM Comments: To: "Paul van Westendorp of AGF 576-56 Fax: 576-5652" Dear Paul: I was asked to write a chapter about bee diagnosis and sampling for HTM. Few years ago, I knew that you and some statistation reported bee yard sampling for HTM. I would like to get a copy of this report to be included in this chapter. If you have any related information please send me a copy. Thank you for your co-operation. Medhat Nasr Ontario Beekeepers' Association c/o Dept. Environmental Biology University of Guelph Guelph, Ont. N1G 2W1 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 21 May 1996 09:20:50 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Aaron Morris Subject: Decisions! Decisions! > > Date: Mon, 20 May 1996 16:27:29 -0400 > From: Tim Peters > Subject: Decisions! Decisions! >.... > When I rotated deeps I filled the 2nd deep w/foundation frames. As of > the 15th, none of the frames had been drawn out. I'm not too concerned > at this point because these girls got started slowly last year. I'm > not very impressed with Walter Kelley Italians at this point. Bees > working some days..but not as much as #1. > Whoa! Tim, this is a world wide forum and you have just slandered Walter Kelley for a trait of Italian bees! Originally from a Mediterranean climate, Italian bees are not known for their rapid spring buildup, but they will catch up as the season gets warmer. If this is not to your liking, a statement like "I don't care for Italian bees in Vermont" is appropriate. But you should be careful not to blame (or defame) Walter Kelley or his livelihood based on the genetic traits of the bees he supplied! >... > Be advised that I don't want to reduce the number of hives by > combining or increase the number of hives (beyond 5). 4-5 hives will > yield a honey crop that I can handle with the resources I have now. > I have financial limitations that prevent me from growing larger at > this time. > > For my commercial beekeeping friends...what information is available > to someone who wants to know more about becoming a commercial > beekeeper? I have turned the idea over in my head from time to time... > but I don't have any info to help me take the next step. > It seems to me that the above two paragraphs are somewhat mutually exclusive, although I don't know and would be interested in the answer. I too have pondered the commercial possibilities, but have never spent too much gray matter on it as I have a slim wallet and see a commercial venture as placing an extreme demand on a tight budget. I always figured that I'd need some sort of outside funding. Small Business Association? Rich Uncle? Lotto? Hey, you never know! Kelley Rosenlund went from a never ever to a commercial operation very quickly, perhaps she has some tips? Or Perhaps David Goble from down under? I would be interested in knowing minimal start up costs, equipment required (beyond what a hobby beekeeper needs), sources of funding, minimal number of hives required to make a go at it (an estimate given on this forum was 200), ways to find beeyards, employee requirements, hesitancy of established operations to give hints to potential competitors, and whatever else I may have overlooked. I'm sure there's a lot more to making the jump from hobby to livelihood than meets the eye. This is indeed an interesting topic Tim has raised! Sincerely, Aaron Morris - I think, therefore I bee! ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 21 May 1996 09:53:25 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Tim Peters Subject: Bees ignoring sugar syrup Hello Everyone: Although it is somewhat moot this late in the season, a question has cropped up in my mind. This year, for the first time, my girls were dis-interested in the sugar syrup that I feed as soon as the temps go above 40deg. At first I offered syrup left over from last fall...it was slightly fermented..but I heated it to 175deg and it seemed to regain some of the original sweet smell. This syrup was turned down flat...I had it on for a week and none of the 4 hives took any measurable amounts. Reasoning that the fermentation was the cause, I dumped all 5 gallons and mixed a fresh 2:1 batch. While small amounts were taken, for the most part it to has gone ignored. What gives?? I also feed pollen substitute, since the trees don't leaf until late APR up here (NE VT). The girls were equally unimpressed with this. There were two or three days where they did take up the pollen sub quickly. Although this spring has been just as terrible here as elsewhere the amount of precip and the cool temps seemed to have provoked the trees to yield tremendous amounts of pollen and nectar (?). All four surviving hives had some honey left from the winter. Could it be that the combination of leftover honey and high natural pollen and nectar has made feeding unnecessary? All opinions appreciated. Thanks in advance. Tim Peters, Kirby VT tpeters@kingcon.com KirBee Apiary, Bear Bait Honey I rather be flying! ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 21 May 1996 10:17:26 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: midnitebee Subject: Re: Beekeeping siminar At 10:46 AM 5/21/96 GMT, you wrote: >Hi all > >The 5th annual Young Harris College-University of Georgia Beekeeping >Institute will be held June 14-15 at Young Harris College. The program is 2 >days of intense and diverse beekeeping training in the Blue Ridge Mountains >of North Ga. Classes for beginners and more advanced beekeepers. > >Dr. Deleplane is the chief architect of this siminar and will attend along >with several outstanding entomologist. > >I would urge as many beekeepers as can, attend. The cost is $35.00 and dorm >rooms have been made available @ $17.00 per night, for those who need >accommodations. > >Frank Humphrey >beekeeper@worldnet.att.net >Frank,how about telling us how to get to Harris Collge? Where do I send the money? Is there a telephone number? I would appreciate advanced (more)notice,for future seminars,since I have to travel a long distance-Maine. Thanks, Midnitebee ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 21 May 1996 06:20:58 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ivan McGill Subject: Re: Decisions! Decisions! >> >> Date: Mon, 20 May 1996 16:27:29 -0400 >> From: Tim Peters >> Subject: Decisions! Decisions! >>.... >> >It seems to me that the above two paragraphs are somewhat mutually >exclusive, although I don't know and would be interested in the answer. >I too have pondered the commercial possibilities, but have never spent >too much gray matter on it as I have a slim wallet and see a >commercial venture as placing an extreme demand on a tight budget. I >always figured that I'd need some sort of outside funding. Small >Business Association? Rich Uncle? Lotto? Hey, you never know! >Kelley Rosenlund went from a never ever to a commercial operation very >quickly, perhaps she has some tips? Or Perhaps David Goble from down >under? I would be interested in knowing minimal start up costs, >equipment required (beyond what a hobby beekeeper needs), sources of >funding, minimal number of hives required to make a go at it (an >estimate given on this forum was 200), ways to find beeyards, employee >requirements, hesitancy of established operations to give hints to >potential competitors, and whatever else I may have overlooked. I'm >sure there's a lot more to making the jump from hobby to livelihood >than meets the eye. This is indeed an interesting topic Tim has raised! > >Sincerely, >Aaron Morris - I think, therefore I bee! For information on commerical operations check with your agricultural department, apiary branch. The will be able to tell you where to get the information. Some of the material will be outdated as far as costs go so you might have to adjust. About learning a commercial operation - work for or with part time a commerical beekeeper for one season to make sure that is what you want to do. Otherwise it is a long road of learning. When working with them you can see short-cuts or something that can be improved. Why reinvent the wheel. Ivan ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 21 May 1996 11:24:31 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jim Moore DTN276-9448 ogo1/e17 508-496-9448 Subject: Q: Double Layer Drawn Foundation in Brood Chamber Bees: Italian Bees Installed: 5/1/96 Region: Eastern Ma. Environ: Apples in bloom or just past. Both my new hives are proceeding nicely. In each case a couple frames had the fondation drawn with a small portion with two layers. Size: about 2x4 inches oval. My quess is that this was encouraged by the queen cage initially. The frames have sealed brood at this point, some of it drone cells. If it were honey supers I assume I would cut out the uneven/two layer parts to make extracting possible. Since it is in the brood chamber what is the procedure? Do I cut it out? If so when? The frames are wire reneforced vertically with end pin support. Thanks, Jim Moore ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 21 May 1996 11:13:44 -0600 Reply-To: allend@internode.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Allen Dick Organization: The Beekeepers Subject: Re: Decisions! Decisions! > About learning a commercial operation - work for or with part time a > commerical beekeeper for one season to make sure that is what you > want to do. Otherwise it is a long road of learning. When working > with them you can see short-cuts or something that can be improved. > Why reinvent the wheel. And this is your best source of financing too. Find a beekeeper who is thinking of retireing or cutting back, and arrange to work with him/her with the prospect of taking overat some point and paying for the outfit with profits over several years. Regards Allen W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper VE6CFK RR#1, Swalwell, Alberta Canada T0M 1Y0 Internet:dicka@cuug.ab.ca & allend@internode.net Honey. Bees, & Art ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 21 May 1996 12:29:21 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Gerry Visel Subject: Q: Double Layer Drawn Foundation in Brood Chamber -Reply Jim Moore wrote: " Both my new hives are proceeding nicely. In each case a couple frames had the fondation drawn with a small portion with two layers. Size: about 2x4 inches oval." One thing that will cause this is to start with nine frames of foundation. Start with ten, and then spread to nine (for ease of removal) after the ten are drawn. If you cut the second layer out, it will be hard to get the buggers to draw that area back out flat. Try moving it to the edge of the brood nest, maybe one frame beyond, and then replace it when they emerge. You may have trouble with the replacement if the mating frame (next to the old double comb area) is recessed. They can't live with that extra space. It is probably best to move both the double comb and the mating one out of the brood area. I have this problem also on hives I don't get into as much as I should. Comments, anyone? Gerry Visel GCVisel@SNDS.COM phone: (815) 226-6620 fax: (815) 394-5438 or -2827 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 21 May 1996 17:33:10 +0100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Gordon Scott Subject: Re: Lack Of Honey Bees In-Reply-To: <960521074905_200901536@emout12.mail.aol.com> On Tue, 21 May 1996, Dave Green, Eastern Pollinator Newsletter wrote: > The second is that farming, prior to the import of honeybees, > was on a very small scale, more like we would consider gardening > today. > Today the farmer may plant 100 acres of watermelon (and orchards > are equivalent) and may not have a single hive within reach. The change towards progressively larger areas of monoculture is a serious threat in itself. Even with suitable forage, when it's pollinated and the flowers have gone, the area can effectively become desert in which those same pollinators starve. So too will their predators, and other creatures further up the food chain. One day that could include us. Regards, -- Gordon Scott gordon@apis.demon.co.uk gordon@multitone.co.uk (work) The Basingstoke Beekeeper (newsletter) beekeeper@apis.demon.co.uk Embryo Home Page Beekeeper; Kendo 3rd Dan; Sometime sailor. Hampshire, England. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 21 May 1996 14:25:08 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Tim Peters Subject: Re: Decisions! Decisions! At 09:31 AM 5/21/96 -0500, Aaron Morris wrote: > >> not very impressed with Walter Kelley Italians at this point. Bees >> working some days..but not as much as #1. >> >Whoa! Tim, this is a world wide forum and you have just slandered >Walter Kelley for a trait of Italian bees! Originally from a >Mediterranean climate, Italian bees are not known for their rapid spring >buildup, but they will catch up as the season gets warmer. If this >is not to your liking, a statement like "I don't care for Italian bees >in Vermont" is appropriate. But you should be careful not to blame (or >defame) Walter Kelley or his livelihood based on the genetic traits of >the bees he supplied! Let me just say in my defense that if I wanted to slander or defame anyone I would do it in such a way so that would leave no doubt as to my intentions (evil grin). My impression is just that...an impression or opinion. Perhaps clarification is in order. Everyone in these parts that I have spoken to deals with Kelley for their package bees. This year, Kelley's demand was SO high that they ran out early on. I have referred several people locally as well as by email to contact the York Bee Co. in Jesup GA. Being in VT a lot of us 'keepers don't order our pkgs until what many southern folk would consider late (April). York has ALWAYS had pkgs until way past when everyone else is done. Until two years ago, I had always ordered the 'Double Hybrid' strain from York. Then, after hearing so many reports of Kelley bees, I ordered 1 pkg. Kelley only deals with Italians. In my mind I was only reporting how well these bees have adapted to Northern VT. I have not been impressed. My comparison benchmarks are not established fairly, however. The double hybrid strain, in my opinion, is amazing in many ways. Almost always gentle, very prolific and good producers, these girls have adapted so well to the harshest winters and will be out flying in 40deg weather in March (when sunny) rumaging through my birdfeeders for anything that remotely resembles pollen. By contrast, the italians don't begin to move about until 60deg (two weeks ago this year) and by the time hive buildup is done they may have missed all of the tree blooms and probably the dandelion bloom as well. Is any of this of earth shaking importance? No. But it may be good info for anyone considering buying Italians for this climate. I should not have specified 'Walter Kelley' Italians, but there are so many pkg suppliers who claim their Italians are a MUCH better strain than anyone else's..I thought naming the supplier wouldn't be such a bad idea. Finally, 'Kelley's bees' aren't even their bees....they second source from unamed suppliers in the South. The Walter Kelley Co is my single source for ALL of my equipment needs. I refer anyone who asks me about an equip supplier souce to Kelley. Local suppliers are a good source for emergency needs but are priced too high to hold my business for large quantities. Tim Peters, Kirby VT tpeters@kingcon.com KirBee Apiary, Bear Bait Honey I rather be flying! ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 21 May 1996 17:11:28 +0100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Gordon Scott Subject: Re: Supercedure and swarming In-Reply-To: On Tue, 21 May 1996, Laura Downey wrote: > I want to point out one item. I received a few posts that indicated that > supercedure and swarming are not the same event. Yes, I do realize > that. The reason I tagged my post as "Supercedure and swarming" is that > in one of my beekeeping reference books, it states that supercedure often > leads to swarming. The confusion between swarming and supercedure seems to appear in several books. I think it's a more common confusion than it should be. > Having viewed my queen and noted that she appears to be failing, i.e. not > laying adeqately, appearing emaciated, it would make sense that the bees > would supercede here. The queen will normally slim down just before she leaves, so may well appear like that. > But, if the queen can't fly from the original > hive, if she crawls out of the hive, is it possible that the swarm will > get as far as the front of the hive and stay there? I've seen photographs of two instances where the colonies have set up their new home under the hive from which they left, because the queen couldn't fly. I'd be a little surprised if they were at the front rather that underneath, as you'd expect the queen just to walk back in and eventually be killed. Regards, -- Gordon Scott gordon@apis.demon.co.uk gordon@multitone.co.uk (work) The Basingstoke Beekeeper (newsletter) beekeeper@apis.demon.co.uk Embryo Home Page Beekeeper; Kendo 3rd Dan; Sometime sailor. Hampshire, England. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 21 May 1996 17:02:04 +0100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Gordon Scott Subject: Re: harvesting honey In-Reply-To: <199605210405.AA16147@internode.net> On Mon, 20 May 1996, Allen Dick wrote: > > >When harvesting honey, what percentage of uncapped cells can be > > >tolerated without spoilage of the honey? Do the frames need to be > > >almost totally capped? > Unfortunately, there is absolutely no direct relationship -- in > spite of popular belief to the contrary -- between percentage of > capped cells, and moisture content. > There *is* a relationship, but it is not direct or consistent. Checking the moisture content can be tricky for us small-scale beekeepers who can't or won't afford a honey refractometer, which is the "Right tool for the job". Sometimes, local beekeepeing associations have them to borrow or hire. I've sometimes wondered whether one can reliably/accurately check the moisture content by measuring the specific gravity -- something that can be done with simpler & cheaper tools that a refractometer. Anyone know? Regards, -- Gordon Scott gordon@apis.demon.co.uk gordon@multitone.co.uk (work) The Basingstoke Beekeeper (newsletter) beekeeper@apis.demon.co.uk Embryo Home Page Beekeeper; Kendo 3rd Dan; Sometime sailor. Hampshire, England. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 21 May 1996 15:29:49 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Laura Downey Subject: Re: Supercedure and swarming In-Reply-To: Hello Gordon, Yes, the colony is more established underneath the original hive than in front. I even found some comb filled with honey underneath when I removed the bulk of the bees. I need to go out there one more time and remove the rest of the bees and place them in the new brood chamber. It is so hot and humid here in Maryland that when I worked the bees on Sunday, I almost dropped from heat exhaustion. I need a cooler day to go out there, which has been promised by the weather forecast. As for the books being confused about swarms and supercedures, does this mean that swarms don't necessarily result from supercedures? My hive did appear to have some "emergency" cells which indicated a supercedure was taking place. Thanks for your reply. Laura corvi29@smart.net ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 21 May 1996 15:45:36 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Mark D. Egloff" Subject: Re[2]: Decisions! Decisions! ..... Hybrid Vigor? Tim: If you have been used to the "hybrid vigor" of Double Hybrids then perhaps it is understandable that pure bred Italians may seem a little slow for you. I think that the Hive and the Honey Bee talked about the productivity of "hybrids" due to the fact that they ARE hybrid. If a newcomer to the craft learns that the "vigor" is "normal" bee behavior, then non-hybrids should look slow and "unimpressive".;-) Could someone out there talk to this and any new information that deals with this? The information I have is in a 1975 edition of the HHB but it indicates that productivity of Doubles is about 100 - 150% "better"(whatever that means) than that of a pure strain. Anyway, I have ordered from Kelley's for several years and have always been pleased. A package from Kelley last year, installed on April 6, 1996, gave me 75lbs of honey by July 15, 1996. I was *very* pleased. My opinion, FWIIW. Mark Egloff MEGLOFF@CSC.COM "Being in VT a lot of us 'keepers don't order our pkgs until what many southern folk would consider late (April). York has ALWAYS had pkgs until way past when everyone else is done. Until two years ago, I had always ordered the 'Double Hybrid' strain from York. Then, after hearing so many reports of Kelley bees, I ordered 1 pkg. Kelley only deals with Italians. In my mind I was only reporting how well these bees have adapted to Northern VT. I have not been impressed. My comparison benchmarks are not established fairly, however. The double hybrid strain, in my opinion, is amazing in many ways. Almost always gentle, very prolific and good producers, these girls have adapted so well to the harshest winters and will be out flying in 40deg weather in March (when sunny) rumaging through my birdfeeders for anything that remotely resembles pollen. By contrast, the italians don't begin to move about until 60deg (two weeks ago this year) and by the time hive buildup is done they may have missed all of the tree blooms and probably the dandelion bloom as well. Is any of this of earth shaking importance? No. But it may be good info for anyone considering buying Italians for this climate. I should not have specified 'Walter Kelley' Italians, but there are so many pkg suppliers who claim their Italians are a MUCH better strain than anyone else's..I thought naming the supplier wouldn't be such a bad idea. Finally, 'Kelley's bees' aren't even their bees....they second source from unamed suppliers in the South. The Walter Kelley Co is my single source for ALL of my equipment needs. I refer anyone who asks me about an equip supplier souce to Kelley. Local suppliers are a good source for emergency needs but are priced too high to hold my business for large quantities. Tim Peters, Kirby VT tpeters@kingcon.com KirBee Apiary, Bear Bait Honey I rather be flying! ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 21 May 1996 14:29:40 -0600 Reply-To: allend@internode.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Allen Dick Organization: The Beekeepers Subject: Re: harvesting honey > I've sometimes wondered whether one can reliably/accurately > check the moisture content by measuring the specific gravity -- > something that can be done with simpler & cheaper tools that a > refractometer. Anyone know? Yes, that was the old method. However it is difficult and messy. You can run a the rounded side of a spoon over a comb that is tilted and squeeze out enough honey to fill a small jar without damaging the comb much. If an identical amount of store-boughten honey is placed in an identical jar and both inverted simultaneously , you can see which bubble rises faster. If yours is slower, your honey is thicker, thus ready for harvest. Regards Allen W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper VE6CFK RR#1, Swalwell, Alberta Canada T0M 1Y0 Internet:dicka@cuug.ab.ca & allend@internode.net Honey. Bees, & Art ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 21 May 1996 23:36:59 GMT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Franklin D. Humphrey Sr." Subject: Re: Beekeeping siminar At 03:17 PM 5/21/96 +0000, you wrote: >At 10:46 AM 5/21/96 GMT, you wrote: >>Hi all >> >>The 5th annual Young Harris College-University of Georgia Beekeeping >>Institute will be held June 14-15 at Young Harris College. The program is 2 >>days of intense and diverse beekeeping training in the Blue Ridge Mountains >>of North Ga. Classes for beginners and more advanced beekeepers. >> >>Dr. Deleplane is the chief architect of this siminar and will attend along >>with several outstanding entomologist. >> >>I would urge as many beekeepers as can, attend. The cost is $35.00 and dorm >>rooms have been made available @ $17.00 per night, for those who need >>accommodations. >> >>Frank Humphrey >>beekeeper@worldnet.att.net >>Frank,how about telling us how to get to Harris Collge? Where do I send the >money? Is there a telephone number? >I would appreciate advanced (more)notice,for future seminars,since I have to >travel a long distance-Maine. > Thanks, > Midnitebee My apologies for leaving out the phone number. It is: 706-542-8954. Ask for Tracy Coker. As to short notice, I only found out about it this past weekend. The dealer that informed me is one that I usually make a special trip of about 100 Miles to see. I will ask that the give me more advanced notice next year since this is going to be an annual event. Frank Humphrey ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 22 May 1996 00:50:25 GMT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Franklin D. Humphrey Sr." Subject: Requeening Hi All I have been following the thread about putting a new queen in a hive and decided to throw out my method Several years ago I decided that there has to be a better way to requeen than prying the frames apart and jamming the queen cage in between two of them. I always wound up with burr comb, drone comb and other problems. I asked my queen breeder how he requeened and this is how he does it: 1. Find and remove the old queen from the hive. 2. Put all the frames back in,remove the plug from the candy end and lay the queen cage on top of the frames, open side down, centered over the space between two frames. 3. Invert inner cover to accommodate the cage and close up the hive. Sometimes the inner cover will rest on the cage and leave a slight crack at the top of the hive but it doesn't seem to bother the bees. 4. Check the hive in 4 days. If the queen has not been released, release her unless the bees are being aggressive towards her. If the queen has been released, check for eggs. If you find them, close the hive and check again in a week. If you don't find eggs or the queen, check again in 2 to 3 days. If you don't find eggs or a queen at this point she is probably lost and other measures need to be taken. I have been using this method for 3 years now and it works well for me. Frank Humphrey beekeeper@worldnet.att.net ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 21 May 1996 22:12:43 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Bill Miller Subject: Re: Good management and swarm prevention When to do Fall requeening? I try to do it in late September-early October. I would like to go a bit later, but queens get hard to obtain. Incidently, I like to use the "nuc" method for all requeening, but especially in the Fall. You get better acceptance, less risk of generating a queenless colony when you can't do anything about it, and the benefits of two laying queens for about 2 weeks. The "nuc" requeening is discussed in this year's Brushy Mountain catalog as "Almost Foolproof Requeening". It's also in Sammataro's "The Beekeepers Handbook". W. G. Miller Gaithersburg, MD ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 21 May 1996 22:12:46 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Bill Miller Subject: Re: harvesting honey When honey is ready for harvesting is a question of general interest and some contorversy. Here are some answers I have heard: 1) 100% capped (required for comb honey) 2) 80% capped 3) Unable to manually shake nectar out of open cells 4) Whatever is in the supers at the end of the honeyflow. Personally, I try for 1) but usually end up at a combination of 2) and 3). Most years, my honey tests out < 17 % moisture. Anything that's really thin gets tested, and if its > 18.6 % moisture will get fed back to the bees as soon as the flow is over. W. G. Miller Gaithersburg, MD ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 22 May 1996 16:54:37 +1200 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Andrew Matheson Subject: Solitary bees and lack of honey bees There's been quite a bit of discussion on these subjects lately, in this forum. A new publication brings together 18 scientific papers under the title 'The conservation of bees'. To quote from the dust jacket: Bees form a vital part of many natural and farmed landscapes all over the world. Both as pollinators and as a part of the wider insect community, their activities not only promote healthy ecosystems but in many cases are essential to the life cycles of particular plant species. Their complex coevolutionary relationships to their forage plants are a subject of fascination to biologists and conservationists, and of economic importance to crop managers. But everywhere bees are under pressure, both from the direct impact of pesticides in the environment as well as the indirect effects of habitat alteration and destruction. This volume focuses on a number of important topics in bee biology and conservation in the temperate regions of four continents. The varieties of habitats needed for bees to thrive, the essential links and interactions between bees and many plant species, and the current state of bee biodiversity and conservation are all dealt with by an international cast of authors. Anyone with an interest in bees, or in insect and plant conservation in general, will find important subjects discussed in this book. End of quote. The 18 authors come from the USA (4), UK (4), Germany (3), Poland (1), Canada (1), Netherlands (1), Panama (1), Israel (1), Greece (1). The book is published by Academic Press for the International Bee Research Association and the Linnean Society of London. Price is unknown, but details are available from ibra@cardiff.ac.uk ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 22 May 1996 06:43:12 +0100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Sid Pullinger Subject: Swarming < Looking at your hive every six days is creating the situation for your bees to swarm, at the start of spring your whole hive should be inspected for swarming cells and the state of your hive, then if you keep placing more supers on this hive, you are allowing the bees to store nectar and return to you.> I think it is not wise for David Goble to generalise. Climates, flora and seasons vary from country to country. What may work in Australia certainly would not work here. We have a swarming season extending over two months, May and June, and one early inspection will not tell us that the bees intend swarming in three weeks time. Piling on the supers is not much help if nothing is coming in. This spring poor health and poor weather combined to make me ignore routine inspections. Since my bees are normally of a non-swarming strain I trusted them to behave. It was not to be. Three swarms in three days and a hasty check revealed three more almost ready to go. This is an abnormal situation and is happening to many beekeepers. Freak cold weather conditions have kept the bees out of the supers and in the broodchambers, causing congestion. Experts tell us that congestion leads to unequal or insufficient distribution of queen pheromone, leading to an urge to swarm. Whatever the reason, the bees have gone crazy, more so because the weather is so unsuitable for swarming. One sunny day to drive them out, followed by four days of cold and wet, as happened recently, means that some swarms that got away will probably starve. A classic example of blind instinct where, for once, the bees have got it wrong. Tough on the virgins left behind as there is so little mating weather. As regards whether inspections cause stress, I do not know. I do know from many trials that a routine inspection for cells carried out around midday or early afternoon during a nectar flow causes a loss of four to six pounds of nectar for that day but the next day everything from the work point of view is back to normal. This is a small price to pay if it prevents the loss of a swarm. Sid P. _________________________________________________________________ Sid Pullinger Email : sidpul@aladdin.co.uk 36, Grange Rd Compuserve: 100343.1216@compuserve.com Alresford Hants SO24 9HF England ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 21 May 1996 17:50:11 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jerry J Bromenshenk Subject: Kids' Corner - Bee Trivia, etc. Hi: We have added to our Bee Alert! web page some games, puzzles, trivia questions, clip art, and close-up photographs of bees for kids of all ages. Much of this material was provided with authorization for use by the U.S. Honey Board. The photographs are courtesy of my life-long partner. We continue to look for additional material to include. The page of links to other pages emphasizes interesting and educational sites covering a wide area of science. It is not limited to bees. In the meantime, we hope you enjoy our postings. Jerry J. Bromenshenk The University of Montana-Missoula jjbmail@selway.umt.edu P.S. We recommend using Netscape Navigator or a recent version of other browsers. Older software does not support all of the graphics and table functions. Also, be sure to check your screen resolution and colors. Our pages for the most part appear as black type, with blue text for links, and a light yellow honeycomb background. If you get dark background colors, either your system is not setup properly for colors (use at least 256 colors) or your browser does not recognize html commands that control background colors and wallpaper. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 22 May 1996 14:19:08 GMT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Franklin D. Humphrey Sr." Subject: Re: swarm prevention for the hobbiest? I know of a hobbyist who winters 10 colonies and only 10 colonies each year. He winters in double brood chambers and splits each spring using queen cells or commercial queens as conditions require. He then recombines in the fall keeping the younger queen. He has very few swarms using this method. In good years such as we had here in 93, the splits will make one or two supers of honey. The splits are kept close beside the original colony so that if trouble develops in it then the split can become a brood donor or can easily become the primary producer. Net result: Virtualy no swarming and no net increase in number of coloines. Frank Humphrey beekeeper@worldnet.att.net ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 22 May 1996 06:48:36 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ivan McGill Subject: Re: harvesting honey >When honey is ready for harvesting is a question of general interest and some >contorversy. Here are some answers I have heard: > >1) 100% capped (required for comb honey) > >2) 80% capped > >3) Unable to manually shake nectar out of open cells > >4) Whatever is in the supers at the end of the honeyflow. > >Personally, I try for 1) but usually end up at a combination of 2) and 3). > Most years, my honey tests out < 17 % moisture. Anything that's really >thin gets tested, and if its > 18.6 % moisture will get fed back to the bees >as soon as the flow is over. > >W. G. Miller >Gaithersburg, MD In the rainy season or if in doubt if the honey is not ripe enough I have a small dehumidifier which is used for 3 or 4 days if the supers are extremely wet. I have taken honey that is 18% down to 17%. I don't use it to ripen honey just to take the moisture down to an exceptable %. If you leave it on too long the honey gets very dry and hard to extract. Ivan ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 22 May 1996 09:24:36 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Dick Subject: Re: Decisions! Decisions! >For my commercial beekeeping friends...what information is available to >someone who wants to know more about becoming a commercial beekeeper? I have >turned the idea over in my head from time to time...but I don't have any >info to help me take the next step. > >Thanks to all in advance. >Tim Peters, Kirby VT >tpeters@kingcon.com >I rather be flying! Tim, You do have all the information needed to take the step into commercial beekeeping. You just have to manipulate it and manage it. In addition, you have the best tool for manipulating and managing this information, your computer. Spend 200 hours or so putting all the start-up costs (new equipment or used equipment etc.), costs of production for each month of the year, and all the possible sources of income from beekeeping into one of your spreadsheet programs. Then manipulate those numbers--run dozens of production and marketing scenarios,e.g., size of operation, pollination and/or honey production, pollen collection and sale, packaging and mail order sales and bulk sales, queen rearing, nuc selling, and put in a year every once in awhile where you lose most of your colonies and only get 40lbs. of honey per colony etc., etc. Then let the numbers tell you which scenario will get you what you want. Do you want to make US$15,000/yr. or US$50,000, $15/hr. or $50/hr.? Do you want to establish a strain of bees? Are you concerned about net worth or asset turnover? Your computer will crunch the numbers and tell you what is financially possible. The alternative to this is to hire someone else to do a full blown business plan for you. Will cost you about US$5,000 but could well be the best money you ever spent. (You can probably do just as good a business plan yourself but there is such a thing as a learning curve.) Next, keep detailed records on your present operation, as involved as you would have to on a larger operation to keep from going broke. Then use your business plan and records to sell an equity investor or two on the potential profit of your operation (Generally, it is very bad business to sell someone on investing money in a business on other than rates of return. If your projected rate of return is lousy, you will have to devise a different scenario for beekeeping so that your projected rate of return will attract capital. Otherwise you won't survive financially.) As for loans, there's no shortage of capital in the developed countries of the world. So you are in a good bargaining position. What you are doing is renting this capital and you don't wnat to pay anymore rent than you have to so don't think the banker is doing you a favor by lending you money. He's got money to lease and the more interest he gets the less profit you will have. Of course, good comb honey or mead has been known to lower the interest rate a point so be as ingenious in setting-up and running your business as your bees are in running their business. You've got to survive financially to have fun with the bees and for their survival. Dick Strohl 2648 Inglewood Ave. S. St. Louis Park, MN USA 55416-3928 rstroh19@popmail.skypoint.com Businss like beekeeping has its own jargon. You just have to learn it. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 22 May 1996 10:56:17 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Victor M. Kroenke" Subject: Re: harvesting honey Ivan McGill wrote: > > >When honey is ready for harvesting is a question of general interest and some > >contorversy. Here are some answers I have heard: > > > >1) 100% capped (required for comb honey) > > > >2) 80% capped > > > >3) Unable to manually shake nectar out of open cells > > > >4) Whatever is in the supers at the end of the honeyflow. > > > >Personally, I try for 1) but usually end up at a combination of 2) and 3). > > Most years, my honey tests out < 17 % moisture. Anything that's really > >thin gets tested, and if its > 18.6 % moisture will get fed back to the bees > >as soon as the flow is over. > > > >W. G. Miller > >Gaithersburg, MD > > In the rainy season or if in doubt if the honey is not ripe enough I have a > small dehumidifier which is used for 3 or 4 days if the supers are > extremely wet. I have taken honey that is 18% down to 17%. I don't use it > to ripen honey just to take the moisture down to an exceptable %. If you > leave it on too long the honey gets very dry and hard to extract. > > IvanI keep bees in s.e.Kansas and it is usually quite warm and humid in the fall when I do my extracting. I usually extract in September. Some years I have found the moisture content of the uncapped honey to be lower than that of the capped honey. I run a water jacketed sump tank that holds 20+ gallons of honey. This unit puts out quite a lot of heat even though I only keep it at 100 deg. It seems like every year my honey will tend to run a bit high on moisture like in the range of 18-19% as brought in from the hive. In order to keep the moistue down I run 2 small dehumidifiers. This also adds to the heat in the honey house so I installed a window air conditioner. This unit also dehumidifies air in the honey house and makes the temperature bearable to work in. I will spend a day or two bringing in supers of honey,stack them on 2x4 boards and stagger them a bit in the stacks for ventilation and run a fan to circulate the air. Put this all together and my moisture content in the barrel is in the range of 17.2 to 18.2%. I have found the only reliable way to judge moisture content is to test it with a refractometer. Honey stored for a number of months must have a moistue content of no more than 18.5%. One bad barrel can pay the cost of the refractometer. If one beekeeper can not justify the cost maybe by going in with several other beekeeping friends it could be justified. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 22 May 1996 10:26:32 -0600 Reply-To: allend@internode.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Allen Dick Organization: The Beekeepers Subject: Re: Decisions! Decisions! > You do have all the information needed to take the step into > commercial beekeeping. You just have to manipulate it and manage > it. Hmmm. Well, there is a huge difference between a hobby operation and a commercial one. Priorities, yields, scheduling. to name a few. Each time you change the scale of operation even 50% you run into huge problems. That applies whether you go from 20 to 30 hives or 2000 to 3000. I've run into these problems every time I've increased. It is almost impossible to guess ahead of time where the bottleneck will be. There is a lot to discuss here, but believe me --- the best chance for success is to take over a going concern, if possible. Building up a bee business is a long hard climb. Regards Allen W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper VE6CFK RR#1, Swalwell, Alberta Canada T0M 1Y0 Internet:dicka@cuug.ab.ca & allend@internode.net Honey. Bees, & Art ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 22 May 1996 17:52:57 GMT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Steve Pearce Subject: Re: swarm prevention for the hobbyist I can reccomend (albeit second hand) the method told by Franklin One of my uncles, Jim Pearce of Ponteland in Northumberland (UK) lives in a congested area where swarms are a nuisance. He has neighbours who are intolerant, and of course my dear Auntie (who hates bees and would make Arnold Schwarzeneger run for cover), so swarms are a big headache for him. This is how he manages to keep bees, and avoid certain death...!! He always overwinters 2 hives, splits them in the spring, and raises new queens in the split off hives. These catch up and enable him to take 4 hives to the heather. After this he kills the old queens, and unites these with the new colonies. He then has two big strong hives for overwintering (he never seems to lose them) And he has a strong stock for building up in the spring for the new splits. He has carried out this method for 8 years to my knowledge and has only had very few swarms in that time. Steve Kilspindie Scotland ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 22 May 1996 12:00:58 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jerry J Bromenshenk Subject: Bee Alert! Web Page and Kids' Corner Oops: Forgot to include the URL. You can find us at http://grizzly.umt.edu/biology/bees Jerry Bromenshenk The University of Montana-Missoula jjbmail@selway.umt.edu Tel: 406-243-5648 Fax: 406-243-4184 Home Pages: Bees: http://grizzly.umt.edu/biology/bees Wind Energy, Petroleum, and Other Energy Related Issues: http://grizzly.umt.edu/biology/bees Cheers Jerry ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 22 May 1996 20:39:59 PDT Reply-To: Glyn Davies Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: RFC822 error: TO field duplicated. Last occurrence was retained. From: Glyn Davies Subject: Re: Swarming and Varroa treatment Comments: To: Sid Pullinger Hello Sid, I'm about 80 miles west of you. That must be like next door in USA distances. Your letter in response to David Goble I could have written myself. There are some very strong colonies around and frustrated by their inability to get out with all this beautiful fruit blossom available. There is a view here in Devon that Varroa treatment, should be as late as possible, say October to mid-November. Those who followed recommended times from August to September suffered severe reinfestation and it is these colonies that have been lost. What is your view? Regards, Glyn Davies, Ashburton, Devon. UK ---------------Original Message--------------- < Looking at your hive every six days is creating the situation for your bees to swarm, at the start of spring your whole hive should be inspected for swarming cells and the state of your hive, then if you keep placing more supers on this hive, you are allowing the bees to store nectar and return to you.> I think it is not wise for David Goble to generalise. Climates, flora and seasons vary from country to country. What may work in Australia certainly would not work here. We have a swarming season extending over two months, May and June, and one early inspection will not tell us that the bees intend swarming in three weeks time. Piling on the supers is not much help if nothing is coming in. This spring poor health and poor weather combined to make me ignore routine inspections. Since my bees are normally of a non-swarming strain I trusted them to behave. It was not to be. Three swarms in three days and a hasty check revealed three more almost ready to go. This is an abnormal situation and is happening to many beekeepers. Freak cold weather conditions have kept the bees out of the supers and in the broodchambers, causing congestion. Experts tell us that congestion leads to unequal or insufficient distribution of queen pheromone, leading to an urge to swarm. Whatever the reason, the bees have gone crazy, more so because the weather is so unsuitable for swarming. One sunny day to drive them out, followed by four days of cold and wet, as happened recently, means that some swarms that got away will probably starve. A classic example of blind instinct where, for once, the bees have got it wrong. Tough on the virgins left behind as there is so little mating weather. As regards whether inspections cause stress, I do not know. I do know from many trials that a routine inspection for cells carried out around midday or early afternoon during a nectar flow causes a loss of four to six pounds of nectar for that day but the next day everything from the work point of view is back to normal. This is a small price to pay if it prevents the loss of a swarm. Sid P. _________________________________________________________________ Sid Pullinger Email : sidpul@aladdin.co.uk 36, Grange Rd Compuserve: 100343.1216@compuserve.com Alresford Hants SO24 9HF England ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 22 May 1996 16:26:11 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Albert W. Needham" Subject: Re: Mike Beluch effort at education For those of you who may be newer to the list: Re: Education of the public: I am authoring a software program on HoneyBees called "The HoneyBee", An Educational Program About HoneyBees, Their Value In Nature, And Their Value To All Of Us Human Beings." This has been mentioneed on BEE-L form time to time over the past two months or so. It is about 80% towards completion and is coming out very well, thanks in good part to some great close-up photos from P-O Gustafsson (fellow BEE-L'er) and some interesting contributions from other BEE-L'ers. It is designed to be equally interesting to kids and adults, with a touch or two of my zany humor to catch the kids (big & little). It will finish with a chapter on how anyone can keep bees anywhere at any age. For those who may be interested, when it is completed I will post the info to BEE-L, where it is uploaded, and/or how you can obtain it from me at minimal cost (maybe $3.00 postage paid). "The HoneyBee" will be 'Freeware', courtesy of myself and P-O Gustafsson (Sweden). Al Needham Hobbyist Scituate, MA, USA Alwine@aol.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 22 May 1996 16:50:36 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "(Kevin & Shawna Roberts)" Subject: Re: Lack Of Honey Bees > We beekeepers have got to stand up and get enforcement of pesticide label >directions, because use in violation of these directions is MISuse. Whatever >we do to help protect honeybees will also tend to protect wild bees as well. > Applicators MUST monitor the bee situation in the application area, and >comply with the directions of the specific pesticide. In California, beekeepers had a serious problem last year with pesticide use on cotton in the central valley. The state approved emergency use of Furidan and wiped out a lot of hives. Luckily, we didn't have bees near the cotton, so we weren't affected, but I know a lot of beekeepers who were. Sounds like this year will be bad too, judging from estimates of cotton prices (as one beekeeper said, "When cotton prices go up, the streets of Modesto will run with pesticide"). The problem was so bad, that the California State Beekeeper's Association invited a representative from the state Dept. of Pesticide Regulation to talk at our annual convention. We expressed our concerns that label regulations weren't being followed. He told us that not everything on the label was legally binding; that some of the stuff on the label (including not spraying over open water and not spraying blooming plants) was "just a good idea". My husband has been meaning to contact a pesticide manufacturer to ask about this particular interpretation of their labeling--we haven't done it yet. One of the big problems as I see it is that the guys who are supposed to be making sure that pesticides are used correctly (like this representative) don't care about enforcing rules. They only care about keeping the growers happy. If a grower wants to spray, by gum the grower is allowed to spray, and the rules are bent as much as necessary to allow that to happen. The Santa Cruz Agricultural Commissioner's office is another example. All the other counties we work in have a 48-hour notice system set up. We register our locations, and when a grower within a mile of a location contacts the commissioner's office with intent to spray, the commissioner's office informs them that they need to contact us. This is the law in California: Growers are required to give us 48-hours notice to move or protect our bees (even then, they are theoretically supposed to follow the labeling, which minimizes risk to the bees). In Santa Cruz, even after we pointed out the law to them, the commissioner's office refused to comply (under-staffed, they said... an understandable problem.) They told us that we could have a list of the 40 or so growers within a mile radius of each of our locations, and call or visit each grower individually, to ask to be notified if they decided to spray... I can see it now, "Please Mr. Grower, if you don't mind, and if you don't forget, would you mind calling us...". There is a Sevin release date for apples, so we simply told our growers that we would have to remove the bees by the Sevin release date. Then the commissioner's office called us (our growers called them in a huff), and said that even though they had set a release date, they weren't going to allow anyone to spray without express permission (and, besides, everyone said, No One Is Going To Spray). So we left some of the bees in (still took out the ones we considered truly high risk). Then we started getting calls from the commissioner's office (10:00 am, or 11:00am, sometimes 2:00 pm): "Hi, this is Soandso, this grower wants to spray on suchandsuch road tomorrow morning, call me by 4:00pm today if that's not okay." Now, as beekeepers we are out of the house and working the bees all day. We typically didn't hear these messages until 6:00 or 7:00pm. So much for 48 hour notice, and so much for working with the commissioner's office. Luckily, the high risk bees had been pulled, because there was indeed a Sevin application across the street from one of the places we'd pulled bees. No more apples for us. If Santa Cruz was willing to follow the 48-hour law, we could probably manage it. But the hoops we went through this year trying to protect our hives were ridiculous. I don't know how to force applicators to follow the labeling laws when the people who are supposed to be enforcing the laws won't enforce them. It's really discouraging... I always knew I was a little guy, but I never suspected that I was as little as this. Maybe we should just all start buying only organic produce and cotton. It might encourage more growers to go organic if there were a bigger market. Shawna Roberts, co-owner Gypsy Bees Hollister, CA ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 22 May 1996 16:51:13 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "(Kevin & Shawna Roberts)" Subject: Re: Decisions! Decisions! Depending on the part of the country you live in, commercial beekeeping (where you earn your sole living from the bees) may or may not be possible. A sideline operation is probably possible virtually everywhere. Here in California, the standard estimate for bare bones breaking even with a commercial business is 500 hives; 750-1000 hives is the minimum estimate for earning a living with any degree of comfort. Minimum equipment depends on the type of operation you want to run. At the very least, you'll need bees, bee hives, and a flatbed truck or trailer on which to move them (no matter what you do, you'll need to move your hives or your supers at some point). I recommend a boom (if you plan a small commercial operation) or a forklift (if you plan to get big). They are easier on your back than loading by hand. We started beekeeping in 1992 with one hive. This year we have made enough splits so it looks like we'll have 600 or so going into the winter. We financed our business in three ways. (1) For the first year and a half, my husband, Kevin, had a part-time job and I worked full-time. We turned all the extra money into the bees. Kevin has been a full-time beekeeper for 2 years; I still work full-time at a job other than beekeeping. If our plan stays on track, I will move to part-time work next year, and within 2 years move to full-time beekeeping. (2) Kevin's father loaned us some money at a competitive interest rate (interest-only payments with a balloon payment in 10 years; very nice). If you borrow money from friends or relatives, make it official with paperwork. You can get loan papers from stationery stores. (3) We financed some business emergencies with personal credit cards (not recommended. Interest rates are high, but it is better to have a truck with an engine than a truck without an engine). You can grow slowly without financing by simply buying equipment and bees as you have the money to do so. This can take Many years, however. On the other hand, do not try to grow too quickly. In 1994, we grew beyond our ability (too short on time and money and knowledge and locations) to maintain the bees, and we had a 30% mortality that year. Oops. For the first year or so, Kevin worked with a sideline beekeeper, helping him with his 175 colonies in exchange for equipment and bees. This is highly recommended. Even if you do not agree with everything the other beekeeper does, you will learn a great deal. Also, contact your extension entomologist. They often have information about commercial beekeeping, and can point you to commercial beekeeping organizations in your area. We joined the Delta Bee Club, which has a lot of commercial beekeepers as members. In order to attend their monthly meetings, we have to drive for one-two hours one way (meeting sites vary), but it is worth it. You can ask questions and listen and learn. Join your state organization and ATTEND the annual convention. Park yourself next to the bar, or near the food, and think of something to ask anyone you even vaguely recognize. Go ahead. Make a pest of yourself. Introduce yourself to total strangers. At the luncheons and the dinners, pick out interesting people you would like to learn from, and ask if you can sit at their table. Ask and LISTEN and ask some more! Join one of the national associations, and attend conventions when your finances permit (we haven't gone to any yet); at the very least, you'll be getting their newsletters. Do as much research as you can on the prices of things. Read all the journals (at least Bee Culture, Amercian Bee Journal, and Speedy Bee), request all the mail-order catalogs (ask about wholesale prices), read all the classified ads on bulletin boards at supply shops. Often beekeepers have an inflated view of the worth of their equipment, bees, locations, and/or their business in general. Don't buy anything until you've satisfied yourself that the price is fair. I can't think of any beekeeper who would intentionally sell something for an unfair price, but I know a lot who would make up a price that seemed good to them without checking the market. It's your job as the buyer to know the market. Most commercial beekeepers I know are perfectly happy to discuss things with "wannabes". After all, you'll be the one buying their equipment when they want to sell. They also know that it's not knowledge that makes a beekeeper successful; it's hard work. If you aren't cut out to make your own business a success, nothing I tell you is going to help you succeed. The way to find locations is to ask everyone. When you drive by a place that looks good, go knock on the door. 10 of them will turn you down, and one will say yes. We also give classroom presentations that sometimes lead to locations (from the parents); rotary club presentations that sometimes lead to locations; we have a booth at the county fair (we sell honey and break even on the cost of the booth) that sometimes leads to locations; Kevin helped a local rancher at a branding a couple months ago--that led to some possible locations. You need to be as visible as you can possibly be in the community. Sometimes we get swarm calls... most of them we turn down, because we simply don't have the time. But sometimes a rancher will call about a swarm near a corral--if we can possibly manage it, we try to help them out... sometimes it leads to a location. Hand out your card to everyone. Ask people whose property you are currently on if they know anyone else who might be interested in bees. Start-up costs will vary depending on the type of operation you want to run (honey? pollination? specialty products? queens?) and on how quickly you want the operation to become self-sustaining. Kevin's father loaned us $49,000 over the course of 3 years. You might need more or less financing depending on how you choose to operate. If you think you don't have enough money to start the business, I recommend that you look at the ways in which you spend money. We moved, and reduced our housing costs by more than half. We also cut out a lot of luxuries: cable TV, eating out, new clothes..... And all our cars/trucks are paid for. There's a lot that most of us can do to change our spending habits and free up a little "seed money" for a business. I recommend two books: "Following the Bloom: Across America with the Migratory Beekeepers" by Douglas Whynott, and "Small-Time Operator" by Bernard Kamoroff. The first is about commercial beekeeping. The second is about starting your own small business, and addresses issues like taxes, financing a new business, employees, bookkeeping, and business plans. I hope this was helpful. Sorry about its length. Shawna Roberts, co-owner Gypsy Bees ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 22 May 1996 13:58:03 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Hunahpu Matamoros Subject: Used Equiptment query Today I purchased some equiptment from a couple who'd kept bees for a few years but whose charges died over the winter. They said the bottom of the hive was full of dead bees so I assume that the dreaded mite was the problem. They appear to have belonged to that class of keeper who did little or nothing in the way of interceeding(powdered medication late fall) and simply took 30 to 50 poundsof honey off each year. They used medium supers only(no deeps, even for brood). My concern is that this equiptment may raise the varroa count in my bees to an intolerable level before I can treat in fall. As I drove into the yard the bees descended on me and began robbing almost immediatly(fair amt of honey left in these old hives and its rained pretty solidly for the last 2 days). Is it now too late or is there some way to treat these hives. Is it possible that during the active time of summer flows that my bees will be able to resist ANYTHING that may be in those old hives and that I can assist them best by waiting until fall to treat---or should I medicate NOW(and write off the honey for this year)? Or should I burn the works!(what about my bees who've already been such industrious robbers?) ...Stuart Grant Point Roberts, WA 58 degrees F. & 49 degrees north but in The Japanese current. ********************************************************************** Though argument does not create conviction, lack of it destroys belief. What seems to be proved may not be embraced; but what no one shows the ability to defend is quickly abandoned. Rational argument does not create belief, but it maintains a climate in which belief may flourish. (Austin Farrer on C. S. Lewis.) ********************************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 23 May 1996 00:01:24 +0100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Hans-Ulrich THOMAS Subject: Varroa Tolerance (Part1) --============_-1379316406==_============ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Dear fellow beekeepers, Judging recent postings to this list there seems to be some interest about genetic control in honeybees to fight varroa. In 1994 the magazine "Bee World" published an interesting article about this subject written by Ralph Buechler, a German scientist. IBRA gave me the permission to republish this article for the benefit of this discussion group. You will find it as an attachment to this and the next message. Happy reading Hans e-mail: hthomas@solid.phys.ethz.ch CompuServe: 100045,2556 Fax: ++41 1 633 10 77 ________________________________________________________________________ IBRA is the International Bee Research Association, a non-profit organization formed in 1949 and devoted to advancing apicultural education and science worldwide. One advantage of joining this association is receiving their journal "Bee World". It contains timely and well written articles about all aspects of beekeeping. They can be reached by the following means: IBRA 18 North Road Cardiff CF1 3DY England Tel: ++44 1222 37 24 09 Fax: ++44 1222 66 55 22 e-mail: ibra@cardiff.ac.uk www: http://www.cf.ac.uk/ibra/index.html I have been a happy member of this association for a number of years now and can highly reommend joining them. --============_-1379316406==_============ Content-Type: text/plain; name="Varroa_tolerance_(Part_1)_TXT"; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="Varroa_tolerance_(Part_1)_TXT" Bee World 75(2): 54-70 (1994) IBRA 1994 VARROA TOLERANCE IN HONEY BEES-OCCURRENCE, CHARACTERS AND BREEDING RALPH B=DCCHLER Hessische Landesanstalt fur Tierzucht, Abt. f=FCr Bienenzucht, Erlenstrasse = 9, 35274 Kirchhain, Germany Introduction Although effective treatments against Varroa jacobsoni are now available, varroa disease still has a damaging effect on beekeeping with Apis mellifera. Mite infestation constitutes a continuous risk, which may lead to weakness or loss of colonies as soon as failure of control and treatment regimes employed occurs. Regular treatments are time consuming and costly; the repeated use of drugs causes residue problems in the hive products which may have a negative influence on sales prospects. The options for controlling varroa by use of colony management or biotechnical measures alone are limited. For a long-term solution to the varroa problem priority should be given to research on the genetic improvement of colony defence mechanisms. This need has been increasingly realized in recent years and it is, therefore,a fascinating task to review the scientific findings in this field and to evaluate future opportunities. Varroa tolerance in natural populations =46or a discussion of colony defence mechanisms against V. jacobsoni it is sensible to first evaluate the situation of the Asian honey bee, Apis cerana, the original host. Serious damage to these bees has never been reported, and treatment against varroa is not needed in beekeeping with A. cerana. According to different reports, infestation levels range between zero and several hundred mites. Rath and Drescher(43) observed a maximum infestation of 798 mites for one A. cerana colony in southern Thailand. Koeniger et al.(25) were the first to report infertility of V. jacobsoni in A. cerana brood samples from Sri Lanka. Several authors later confirmed this observation. Successful reproduction of mites in worker brood was found only in exceptional cases or under experimental conditions'(17,42,58). Peng et al.(40) observed an intensive self-, nestmate- and group-cleaning behaviour (hygienic behaviour) as a reaction by A. cerana workers to mite infestation: within two hours, after an artificial infestation, 99.6% of themites were removed by the bees and partly killed. In a similarly designed investigation B=FCchler et al.(15) confirmed the more effective grooming behaviour of A. cerana compared to A. mellifera, although the absolute success rate was lower than reported by Peng et al. In another study Peng et al.(41) discovered that A. cerana workers emptied varroa infested A. mellifera brood cells introduced into their colonies, but this was dependent on the rate of infestation of the cells. The brood-removal behaviour initiated by varroa was systematically investigated by Rath and Drescher(43). They found 98.8% of artificially infested brood cells were emptied within six days. Rosenkranz et al.(51) demonstrated that the source of mites has an important influence on the removal response. Brood cells with mites in A. cerana colonies are regularly recapped after the mite has been removed, while cells with mites from A. mellifera colonies are usually completely emptied. In some regions a high level of tolerance to varroa was noted in A. mellifera colonies. Ruttner et al.(55) reported on colonies in Uruguay which could resist varroa. infestation without any treatment; this was mainly due to a 70-90% infertility of the mites in worker brood cells. Similar observations were reported by Ritter and De Jong(46), Camazine(16) and Engels et al.(19) for Africanized colonies in Brazil. Ritter and DeJong(46) also observed 53% of the mites in A. m. ligustica control colonies to be infertile, while Camazine(16) found only 25% of the mites to be without offspring in con trol colonies of European origin. In 1984, De Jong et al.(18) pointed out the strong effect climate can exert upon the development of varroa infestations. In a comparison of three different climatic regions in Brazil, and with Africanized bees and hybrids from Africanized and=20A. m. Iigustica bees, Moretto et al (32) found that the effect due to climatic conditions dominated over the genetic effects on the varroa infestation. In the temperate climate of Argentina, Marcangeli et al.(30) estimated that, depending on season, between 28 and 44% of the mites in A. m. ligustica colonies were infertile. In Tunisia, A. m. intermissa is able to resist high infestations without any treatment. Ritter(45) reported the comparatively high number of infertile mites (20-50%) as one reason for the increased tolerance of these bees. In a current report Ritter and Boecking(47) mention intensive grooming and brood-removal behaviour as other important tolerance characteristics of the Tunisian bees. Tolerance to V. jacobsoni in experimental populations =46or several years Buchler(7) compared different European strains under standardized conditions. Starting with a uniform mite infestation, differences of up to seven fold could be seen for mite infestations of honey bees of different origins after a test period lasting between 1 and 1.5 years. A correlation between mite infestation and the attractiveness of the brood, and the duration of the capped stage (sealed brood) was found. No noticeable differences were seen in the fertility of the mites; colony performance was independent of its susceptibility to the mite. A simultaneous selection for both performance and tolerance to varroa should therefore be possible. Otten(37) tested A. mellifera, A. m. carnica and A. m. Iigustica colonies over periods lasting from 9 to 18 weeks. In three repetitions, the A. mellifera colonies showed the highest levels of infestation, up to three times higher than the other races. The capped stage lasted about six hours longer for the A. mellifera colonies. The number of infertile mites produced depended on seasonal effects, and there were some differences in the timing for the three races. =46uchs and Bienefeld(21) used small bee-units to investigate the reaction o= f bees to high infestation levels. For bees of eight different origins, which included various European races and also A. m. capensis, no significant differences were found in the infestation level at colony failure. Dependence of the survival period on the infestation level was similar for all races tested. In another test series, which started with a low initial level of mite infestation, Fuchs(20) found significant correlations between development of the infestation and the following characteristics: attractivenes of brood to mites, fertility of the mites and duration of the capped stage. There was also a positive correlation between brood attractiveness and the fertility of the mites. At the Austrian bee institute at Lunz an isolated apiary has been managed without the use of any treatment against varroa since 1986(53). Colony losses are compensated for each year by bringing in new colonies which are requeened by daughters of the surviving colonies. Over the years the colony losses have declined. The rate of infertile mites in worker brood samples has increased to between 50 and 60%, which is extremely high for European conditions. The fact that similar results have been obtained in unselected control colonies indicated that a change in the mite population has occurred rather than an increase in tolerance of the colonies. Kulincevic et al.(27) chose a stock of A. m. carnica as the parental colonies for a bidirectional genetic selection on the characteristic 'percentage of worker brood cells infested by fertile mites' bred from queens which had survived heavy colony losses in Yugoslavia. In the following years four filial generations were selected for the same characteristic: high brood infestation in the susceptible line and low brood infestation in the resistant line. A significant difference was noted for the selection criterion in all generations and also for the natural mite mortality in the third and fourth generations. The results indicate that there is a considerable genetic additive compgnent for the characteristic which allows for a classical selection. In=201990, offspring from the resistant Yugoslavian-line were compared with American carnica- and ligustica-lines in a performance test in Florida, USA(44). The results from two repetitions at two locations were not uniform, and the Yugoslavian stock showed no clear superiority in the tolerance against varroa. Moritz and Mautz(35) tested the infestation development of five A. m. carnica and five A. m. capensis colonies which were initially infested with the same number of mites. From the beginning of July until the middle of October, increasing differences in natural mite mortality, brood infestation and bee infestation were noted between the two groups. Mite development was limited in the A. m. capensis colonies and the authors supposed that a more intensive grooming reaction and a shorter duration of the capped stage were reasons for this, but mite fertility was not investigated. A comparison of six A. m. monticola-A. m. ligustica hybrids with a 75% monticola gene contribution, and four A. m. ligustica control colonies was mad by Thrybom and Fries(59). Starting with a uniform infestation on 21 May, the infestation level of the monticola hybrids was 28.9% of the infestation level in the control colonies at the end of August. However, brood production in the hybrid colonies was significantly lower than in the control colonies, and this factor has to be considered. The monticola hybrids had a higher rate of infertile mite production in the worker brood, and the length of the capped stage may possibly have been shorter although this was not investigated separately. A further evaluation of monticola hybrids is recommended in order to increase varroa tolerance in European honey bees. =46or several years now all colony performance tests carried out at the Hessian bee institute in Kirchhain, Germany have started with a uniform initial infestation. Artificial swarms from highly infested colonies are mixed and divided into samples of uniform weight (fig. 1). One of these samples, which should be infested with about 100 mites, is introduced into each test colony at the beginning of the winter period (fig. 2). The infestation level of these samples varies with in 10-15%(8). After the following year's honey harvest, the colonies are treated with a contact acaricide and dead mites are collected to determine the total infestation level. Differences between the colonies are used to estimate the tolerance to varroa. As an interim result of the studies, it may be stated that there are great differences in the susceptibility to mites within and between different races of the European honey bee, A. mellifera. Differences in susceptibility to mites are found to be correlated with several characteristics of the bees (fig. 3). Characteristics of honey bees affecting tolerance to varroa Grooming as a mite defence behaviour The behavioural mechanisms involved in the grooming activity of A. cerana against V. jacobsoni are described in the investigations of Peng et al.(40) and Buchler et al.(15). The infested bee tries to remove the mite by vigorous movements and a well directed wiping with the legs. Occasionally mites can be observed being caught in a quick movement of the mandibles. If the infested bee fails to remove the mite it may demand grooming assistance from its nestmates by performing a specific shaking dance, with fast lateral movements of the abdomen. The nestmates inspect the whole body, paying greater attention to the petiolus region and the wing bases. Foreign particles are picked off with the mandibles and are eventually chewed. In both studies a comparison with A. mellifera in observation hive experiments showed similar behaviour patterns for both species, but with a reduced intensity and effectiveness in the European honey bee. In a comparison between Africanized honey bees and A. m. ligustica in observation hives Moretto et al.(33) found great differences in the grooming success. Within 30 min after infestation only 5.75% of the mites were removed by A. m. ligustica bees, but 38.5% were removed by the Africanized bees. Ruttner and Hanel(54) examined the natural mortality of five A. m. camica colonies in Austria. From September 1990 to April 1991, on average, 26% of the mites collected from inserts showedinjuries to the legs but rarely to the cuticle of the idiosoma. Damaged, but live miteswere found immediately after emergence from infested brood cells. An anatomical comparison of the mandibles and their muscles showed no fundamental differences between A. cerana and A. mellifera. The ability to kill mites using the mandibles, which is well proved for A. cerana, can therefore also be assumed for A. mellifera. Moosbeckhofer(31) reported a significant negative correlation between the number of damaged mites found in the period August/September, and the infestation of brood and bee samples and the total infestation found in a field test with 111 colonies. These findings are supported by an investigation by Buchler(11) on 21 colonies over a one-year period. The average number of damaged mites found was dependent on the timing of the control and ranged between 10% in March and 64% in June. The repeatability of colony effects on the degree of damage was highest in May/June (w =3D 0.48). There were significant differences between the colonies in many cases. Colonies with a low annual average number of damaged mites (< 30%) showed a stronger increase in the natural mite mortality than colonies with a high number of damaged mites (> 40%). Besides the grooming activity of the bees, the damage rate of mites under field conditions is certainly influenced by several other factors such as mite mortality inside the brood cells, the physiological status of the mites, and the presence of ants and other potential mite predators. In order to exclude these uncertainties, Hoffmann24 developed a laboratory test method: groups of about 300 bees are kept in cages and are artificially infested with mites (fig. 4). The mite mortality is checked up to 7 days after infestation, and the number of damaged mites found is evaluated. Brood removal behaviour of the bees In the papers of Peng et al.(41) and Rath and Drescher(43), brood removal behaviour is described as a defence reaction by A. cerana towards varroa infested brood cells. Boecking and Drescher(3) have found a similar behaviour in A. m. carnica colonies, and in further investigations(4) they observed that the comb material influenced the removal reaction. The removal rate on Jenter-combs (plastic queen raising comb with removable bases) (fig. 5) and standard plastic combs surpassed the rate on natural wax combs. Hygienic behaviour of bees plays an important role in resistance to different brood diseases. Rothenbuhle(52) described this behaviour in relation to resistance against Bacillus larvae. For screening colonies he put slices of freeze-killed brood into healthy brood combs and checked the time of uncapping and removing reactions (fig. 6). Comparing this test method with the brood removal reaction against brood cells infested with two mites, Boecking and Drescher(4) found a positive correlation between both tests (r =3D 0.6-0.65). The authors, therefore, recommended the comparatively simple and well standardized method of using freeze-killed brood for testing the varroa dependent removal reaction. The removal rate is greatly influenced by environmental effects and the repeatability of single tests is therefore low(23). The geneticcomponent can be demonstrated more clearly by repeated measurements. The average mite-removal rate for nine genetically different lines of A.m.carnica hybrids for 8-10repetitions using Jenter-comb was correlated with an average of four repetitions of the test using freeze-killed brood (r=3D0.79)(23) Hoffmann(23) suggests a further simplification of the testing procedure involving killing a definite number of pupae by simply puncturing individual cells within healthy brood combs with a fine insect pin and measuring the time until the consequent removal reaction (fig.7). For tests repeated 3-8 times correlations to the cited Jenter-comb test (r=3D0.65) and to the test with freezed-killed brood (r=3D0.78) were found. B=FCchler(9) observed a negative correlation between the strength of the removal response and susceptibility to mites in four different A. m. carnica lines. Offspring from the colonies with the greatest removal response turned out to show a very pronounced removal behaviour(13). A considerable additive genetic component of the removal behaviour is indicated. Attractiveness of the brood B=FCchler(6) combined sections of brood of the same age from seven different origins in an individual frame, which covered A. m. carnica, A. mellifera and Buckfast strains. These mixed combs were placed into highly infested colonies one day before cell capping. Later the level of infestation of the different brood samples was checked. Differences were found which depended on the origin of the brood. The A. mellifera brood had a significantly lower infestation, while the infestation rate of the Buckfast brood was higher than average. These results could be confirmed in a laboratory choice test . The average attractiveness values obtained for the different strains of bees tested showed a positive correlation with the varroa population development in the colonies(7). Also, Fuchs(20) observed differences in the attractiveness of brood to mites in tolerance tests with small bee-units and confirmeded the positive correlation between brood attractiveness and infestation increase. A delayed invasion of brood resulting in an extended interval between generations may be considered as an explanation of the effect of reduced brood attractiveness on the population dynamics of the mite. Otten(38) noted a significant correlation between the proportion of mites in brood cells (brood mites) to the total level of infestation in a colony and the growth of the mite population in a test with 47 colonies. After acaricide treatment in several performance test groups Buchler(9) found, in most cases, a positive correlation between the rate of brood mites and the infestation level of the colonies. Bienefeld and Stroh(2) tested the attractiveness of brood from several pairs of reciprocally inseminated queens and stated that a maternal genetic effect is present. Colony influence on the fertility of V. jacobsoni Undoubtedly, the number of infertile mites developing in worker brood is a key factor for the population dynamics of V. jacobsoni. From the investigations cited that comment on varroa tolerance in natural and experimental populations, it is quite evident that geographic and climatic differences(18,32,46) as well as host specific effects(16,19,46) play an important role. Within Europe and in the comparison of European strains no such differences are known. Nevertheless there are some reports about infertility rates above the usual value of 10-20% under certain circumstances. Otten and Fuchs(39) reported considerable seasonal effects on the occurrence of infertile mites in worker brood. Most mites stayed infertile in the brood during winter, with a continuous increase in fertility occurring during March/April, and from May to August values below 20% were usually found; in autumn the fertility slowly decreased. A significant seasonal effect on the fertility of mites was also noted by Kulincevic et al(26) for brood samples in the period from the end of June until the end of September, in Yugoslavia. The effect did not occur during a repetition of the test in the following year. Buchler(10) found a significant increase in mite infertility as a result of using the trapcomb technique. In this method, the queen is trapped on one comb for 8-9 days, then moved to other combs in three successive steps. This results in a bee population composed of older bees in the first weeks after the queen is released. Rosenkranz and Sturme(49) demonstrated by systematic manipulation of the mites the dependence of mite fertility on their feeding shortly before cell invasion and during the first hours after cell capping. The infertility rate was clearly increased as a consequence of a period of starvation or an elongated phoretic periodbefore brood invasion. Mites reproduced normally when they were introduced into brood cells immediately after cell capping but showed a strictly reduced fertility when the introduction was delayed for some hours. In accordance with these observations Fuchs(20) assumed that the observed effects of the strain of the bees on the fertility of the mites were caused by differences in the adult host bees and not by differences in the brood. It is not known which components of the diet of the mites are responsible for inducing oogenesis (egg production). The juvenile hormone theory, which has been intensively discussed, is now refuted by the investigations of Rosenkranz et al.(50). Possibly the quantity of haemolymph available at a certain time may regulate reproduction, especially the initiation of vitellogenesis (egg protein production) in jacobsoni. The considerable weight increase observed in the mites shortly after cell capping may indicate this(48). As the haemolymph intake of mites is influenced by certain characteristics of the bees such as grooming, defence and brood removal behaviour, brood activity and age structure of the bee population the fertility of the mites may prove to be an indirect tolerance characteristic. --============_-1379316406==_============ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" __________________________________________________________ Hans-Ulrich THOMAS. Beekeeper & collector of books about: - bees and beekeeping - ants (yes these small little buggers!) - nature printing e-mail: hthomas@solid.phys.ethz.ch CompuServe: 100045,2556 Fax: ++41 1 633 10 77 __________________________________________________________ --============_-1379316406==_============-- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 23 May 1996 00:03:22 +0100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Hans-Ulrich THOMAS Subject: Varroa tolerance (Part 2) --============_-1379316289==_============ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" This is part two of this "Bee World" article --============_-1379316289==_============ Content-Type: text/plain; name="Varroa_tolerance_(Part_2)_TXT"; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="Varroa_tolerance_(Part_2)_TXT" The duration of the capped stage Reduction of the average length of the capped stage is discussed as a potential tolerance factor by several authors(35,56,62). Moritz and Hanel(35) observed mature mite offspring in only 21% of worker brood cells of A. m. capensis which has a capped stage approximately 2 days shorter than A. m. carnica. A limitation in the population increase of varroa in A. m. capensis colonies was confirmed by the investigation of Moritz and Mautz(36). Schousboe(56) measured maximum differences for the duration of the capped stage of worker brood in A. m. ligustica coloniff of up to 1.15 days. Buchler and Drescher(14) observed differences in the length of the capped stage of up to 9 h between different strains (A. m. carnica, A. mellifera and Buckfast) and up to 19 h between individual colonies. Aside from the influence of the origin of the bees, seasonal effects were seen also, confirmed in an investigation by Schousboe(57). Buchler and Drescher(14) determined for 21 colonies, checked twice, a positive correlation between the length of the capped stage and the infestation level (r =3D 0.48) indicating that, on average, a reduction of the length of the capped stage by one hour led to an 8.7% reduction in the final mite infestation level. Testing small colonies of A. m. carnica, A. m. capensis and A. m. scutellata in a flight room, Moritz(34) estimated the heritability of the length of the capped stage (h2 =3D 0.8) and he observed a maternal effect which was responsible for 23% of the total variance. However, B=FCchler and Drescher(14) estimated the heritability for their test population of European honey bee colonies under field conditions (h2 =3D 0.23) and got a lower value, than the one given by Moritz(34). Using a method involving a systematic exchange of brood between A. m. caucasica, A. m. Iigustica and A. mellifera colonies, Le Conte and Cornuet(23) were able to distinguish between the effects of the inherited properties of the brood and colony-specific brood rearing effects on the duration of the capped stage. They found a similar potential for both factors and a heterosis effect (hybrid vigour) was noted for the resulting hybrid bees. In order to quantify the effect of differences in the capped stage on the reproduction rate of V. jacobsoni, Langenbach(28) checked brood cells at 4h intervals for the number and stages of offspring mites present. Because some juvenile mites died and normal development was delayed, only 0.8 daughter mites were present on average at the time of emergence in European races. This result is confirmed by Boecking and Dresche(5) who checked the number of mite exuviae (cast off skins) during cell emergence and found this method to be a reliable way to determine the true number of offspring. If a rate of 0.8 daughters is used, a reduction in the developmental time by 1 h may reduce the number of offspring by 0.9%. Multiplied over several brood cycles, this relatively low reduction may cause remarkable differences in infestation levels. Different methods are described for the measurement of the length of the capped stage in the cited studies. They include marked transparent sheets, photography(14) (fig. 8) or marking cell cappings(28). Varroa tolerance in selection programmes In principle, all characters for which a correlation with the susceptibility of the colonies can be demonstrated may be useful in breeding programmes to increase varroa tolerance. Breeding success depends on the real effect of the selection criterion, the accuracy and repeatability of the test methods, on the genetic variation, on the heritability and on the genetic and environmental interaction. For practical breeding purposes, the complex of all these factors has to be considered, and a compromise between the realizable population size and testing effort, and the progress in selection that can be expected has to be found. The most important information obtained from a discussion of the different tolerance characteristics are summarized in table 1 . General recommendations can rarely be given since=20the circumstances vary widely fo= r different breeders, and important basic data about individual characteristics are still unknown. A short report on existing selection programmes to increase varroa tolerance is given here: * The Yugoslavian programme run by Kulincevic et al (27) has been mentioned previously. A bi directional selection for high and low brood infestation with fertile mites was made over five generations. Significant differences in all generations proved the heredity and selectability of this characteristic. Because of the small population size, about 20 colonies, and a genetic reduction caused by heavy colony losses in the second generation, the genetic variability was too low for long lasting selection progress. The practical use of the selected line will, therefore, probably be low (see also(44)). * Wilde and Koeniger(61) reported on a recent breeding programme to reduce the duration of the capped stage of A. m. carnica by an introduction of A. m. capensis genes. Out of 42 A. m. capensis queens inseminated with a homogeneous carnica sperm mixture, the queen with the shortest brood development period was selected in the parental generation. The daughter queens were again inseminated with carnica sperm, and four filial generations with an increasing population size were selected in the same manner. The mean length of the capped stage in the population tended more and more towards the A. m. camica standard from generation to generation, but individual queens with A. m. capensis-like values were found in each generation. Obviously, a large number of genes influence this characteristic, and it is an open question as to what extent the relevant A. m. capensis genes are accumulating in the A. m. carnica like back crosses. No experience about the practical value of the selected stock is available at present. * Wallner, a professional beekeeper in Austria, checks the infestation development of his 700 colonies by taking brood samples. At the end of the season dead mites from colonies which showed a slow increase in infestation are checked for the occurrence of damage. Over three generations he selected colonies for breeding that had a high number of damaged mites (60). He offers supposedly varroa-tolerant offspring from these colonies. However, an objective evaluation using standardized conditions has not yet been made. * Varroa tolerance is the main selection criterion for the breeding stock at the Hessian Bee Institute in Kirchhain, Germany (144 colonies)(12). In December, colonies receive a uniform initial infestation of about 100 mites, and in the following August the total infestation is determined using an acaricide treatment and counting dead mites. In addition, the number of damaged mites is checked during June and July, and the brood removal behaviour is tested. For experimental purposes, drones are selected for insemination on the basis of the duration of their capped stage. The progress made so far in this selection programme cannot be measured, but a comparatively high tolerance in the Kirchhain stock has been demonstrated under field conditions(9). Recommendations and future options The relevant characteristics of varroa tolerance in honey bees seem by now to have been largely identified. Known testing methods can certainly be improved in the future, but they already allow for a minimum standardization of colony screening. It is not clear in most cases how certain characteristics affect the susceptibility under ceteris paribus conditions, i.e. without the influence of other characteristics and interactions between different characteristics. Recently Fries et al(22) reviewed scientific findings on the reproductive biology and population dynamics of V. jacobsoni and developed a complex mathematical model, which allows you to vary and check the influence of single factors on the mite population development. With reference to this theoretical study a more important effect can be expected from factors which primarily influence the production of progeny over the life time of the mite (for example mite fertility and number of reproductive cycles) than from factors which primarily influence the length of time between two reproductive cycles (for example brood attractiveness and brood removal behaviour). Much research has to be done to evaluate the genetic parameters of the different characteristics. We have no or little information about the genetic variation, the heritability and the contribution of additive genetic, heterosis and maternal effects on the observed heredities. This information must be available if reliable recommendations for breeding schemes are to be given, and they are needed to estimate the progress in selection which can be expected and to calculate the required population size. The designs of existing selection programmes were mainly planned with regard to management aspects, and they are not optimized on a scientific, genetic basis. To reach a high efficiency, this should be corrected as soon as possible. Permanent progress in selection can only be achieved in large populations. Although no precise colony numbers can be defined at the moment, a minimum population size of several hundred colonies is assumed to be needed. Under existing It is not clear in most cases how certain characteristics affect the susceptibility under ceteris paribus conditions, i.e. without the influence of other characteristics and interactions between different characteristics. Recently Fries et al(22) reviewed scientific findings on the reproductive biology and population dynamics of V. jacobsoni and developed a complex mathematical model, which allows you to vary and check the influence of single factors on the mite population development. With reference to this theoretical study a more important effect can be expected from factors which primarily influence the production of progeny over the life time of the mite (for example mite fertility and number of reproductive cycles) than from factors which primarily influence the length of time between two reproductive cycles (for example brood attractiveness and brood removal behaviour). Much research has to be done to evaluate the genetic parameters of the different characteristics. We have no or little information about the genetic variation, the heritability and the contribution of additive genetic, heterosis and maternal effects on the observed heredities. This information must be available if reliable recommendations for breeding schemes are to be given, and they are needed to estimate the progress in selection which can be expected and to calculate the required population size. The designs of existing selection programmes were mainly planned with regard to management aspects, and they are not optimized on a scientific, genetic basis. To reach a high efficiency, this should be corrected as soon as possible. Permanent progress in selection can only be achieved in large populations. Although no precise colony numbers can be defined at the moment, a minimum population size of several hundred colonies is assumed to be needed. Under existing beekeeping practice in most parts of Europe, the co-operation of several breeders within breeding associations is therefore an imperative requirement. These breeding unions need to define a common selection target and have to perform tests under comparable conditions. For an optimal evaluation of the test data, the genetic relationships between all members of the population have to be considered for the breeding value of individual queens. A first approach in this direction, which is standard practice in animal breeding nowadays is used by the Austrian Carnica Association and is being initiated in Germany by Bienefeld and Pritsch(1). A large dataset is a basic requirement for estimating heritabilities and genetic correlations with satisfactory precision. Testing and selection for varroa tolerance undoubtedly needs a greater effort than, for example, selection for honey productivity. There is a definite need, therefore, to use positively selected bees on a large scale. International co-operation across political and geographical borders has to be promoted. Selected lines, for example from Austria or Germany, could immediately be tested in other countries to check the potential of a 'European bee'. Instead of parallel and independent selection for varroa tolerant bees in many small populations, improvements in a few large populations are much more promising. References The numbers given at the end of references denote entries in Apicultural Abstracts. 1. BIENEFELD, K; PRITSCH, G (1992) Kooperation zwischen Z=FCchtern und zentrale Auswertung: Ans=E4tze f=FCr eine erfolgreiche Zucht der Honigbiene. Die Biene 128(8): 443-447. 2. BIENEFELD, K; STROH, A M (1992) Einfl=FCsse der m=FCtterlichen Abstammung der Bienenbrut (Apis mellifera) auf die Reproduktion von Varroa jacobsoni. Annales Universitatis Mariae Curie-Sklodowska 47: 123-126. 3. BOECKING, O; DRESCHER, W (1991) Response of Apis mellifera L colonies to brood infested with Varroa jacobsoni Oud. Apidologie 22(3): 237-241. 563/92 4. BOECKING, O; DRESCHER, W (1992) The removal response of Apis mellifera L colonies to brood in wax and plastic cells after artificial and natural infestation with Varroa jacobsoni Oud. and to freeze killed brood. Experimental and Applied Acarology 16: 321 -329. 5. BOECKING, O; DRESCHER, W (1993) Reproductive success of Varroa jacobsoni in worker 1. brood cells with regard to the duration of the post-capping stage. Journal of Apicultural Research (submitted). 6. B=DCCHLER(1989) Attractivity and reproductrive suitability for the Varroa-mite of bee brood from different origin. Proceedings of a meeting of the EC-experts group, Udine, Italy; 1988 139-145= =2E 7. B=DCCHLER, R (1990) Possibilities for selecting increased Varroa toleranc= e in central European honey bees of different origins. Apidologie 21(4): 36367. 0221/91 8. B=DCCHLER, R (1992) Test auf Varroatoleranz im Rahmen von Leistungspr=FCf= ungen. Neue Bienen Zeitung 3(3):162-167. 228/93 9. B=DCCHLER, R (1992) Zucht auf Varroatoleranz. Deutsches Imker-Joumal 3(2): 43-50. 10 B=DCCHLER, R (1992) Die Auswirkung einer Brutunterbrechung auf Reproduktion und =DCberleben zugegebener Varroa-Milben. Annales Universitatis Mariae Curie-Sklodowska 47: 13-18. 11 B=DCCHLER, R (1993) Rate of damaged mites in natural mite fall with regar= d to seasonal effects and infestation development. Apidologie 24(5): 492-493. 12 B=DCCHLER, R (1993) Aufbau, Leistungspr=FCfung und Selektion der Kirchhai= ner Population. Die Biene 129(1): 11-17 13 B=DCCHLER, R (1994) Die Entwicklung varroatoleranter Honigbienen unter nat=FCrlichen und z=FCchterischen Auslesebedingungen. Die Biene (in preparation). 14 B=DCCHLER, R; DRESCHER, W (1990) Variance and heritability of the capped developmental stage in European Apis mellifera L and its correlation with increased Varroa jacobsoni Oud. infestation. Joumal of Apicultural Research 29(3): 172-176. 1362/91 15. B=DCCHLER, R; DRESCHER, W; TORNIER, I (1992) Grooming behaviour of Apis cerana, Apis mellifera and Apis dorsata and its effects on the parasitic mites Varroa jacobsoni and Tropilaelaps clareae. Experimental and Applied Acarology 16: 313-319. 16. CAMAZINE, S (1986) Differential reproduction of the mite,Varroa jacobsoni (Mesostigmata: Varroidae), on Africanized and European honey bees (Hymenoptera: Apidae). Annals of the Entomological Society of Amenica 79(5): 801-803. 238/88 17. DE JONG, D (1988) Varroa jacobsoni does reproduce in worker cells of Apis cerana in South Korea. Apidologie 19(3): 241-243. 1139/39 18. DE JONG, D; GONCALVES, L S; MORSE, R A (1984) Dependence on climate of the virulence of Varroa jacobsoni. Bee World 65(3):117-121. 958/85 19. ENGELS, W; GONCALVES, L S; STEINER, J; BURIOU A, A H; CAVICHIO ISSA, M R (1986) Varroa-Befall von carnica-V=F6lkern in Tropenklima. Apidologie 17(3): 203-216. 983/87 20. FUCHS, S (1992) Ein Testverfahren zum Vergleich der Varroatoseanf=E4l1igkeit in kleinenVolkseinheiten. Annales Universitatis Mariae Curie-Sklodowska 47: 127-132. 21. FUCHS, S; BIENEFELD, K (1991) Testing susceptibility to varroatosis in small bee units. Apidologie 22(4): 463-465. 591/92 22. FRIES, I; CAMAZINE, S, SNEYD, J (1994) Population dynamics of Varroa jacobsoni: a model and a review, Bee World 75(1): 5-28 23. HOFFMANN, S (1993) Personal communication. 24. HOFFMANN, S (1993) The occurrence of damaged mites in cage test and under field conditions in hybrids of different Carniolan lines. Apidologie 24: 493-495. 25. KOENIGER, N; KOENIGER, G; WIJAYAGUNASEKARA, N H P (1981) Beobachtungen =FCber die Anpassung von Varroa jacobsoni an ihren nat=FCrlichen Wirt Apis cerana in Sri Lanka. Apidologie 12(1): 37-40. 72182 26. KULINCEVIC, J M; RINDERER, T E; UROSEVIC, D J (1988) Seasonality and colony variation of reproducing and non-reproducing Varroa jacobsoni females in Westem honey bee (Apis mellifera) worker brood. Apidologie 19(2): 173-179. 600/89 27. KULINCEVIC; J M; RINDERER, T E; MLADJAN, V J; Buco, S M (1992) Five years of bi-directional genetic selection for honey bees resistant and susceptibility to Varroa jacobsoni. Apidologie 23(5): 443-452. 1305/93 28 LANGENBACH, K (1992) Die Auswirkung der Zellverdeckelungsdauer auf den Reproduktionserfolg von Varroa jacobsoni in Bienenbrutzellen. Report at the meeting of the German bee research institutes, Lehnitz/Hohen Neuendorf, Germany; 26 March 1992. 29 CONTE, Y; CORNUET, J M (1989) Variability of the postcapping stage duration of the worker brood in three different races of Apis mellifera. Proceedings of a meeting of the EC-experts group, Udine, Italy 1988: 171-174= =2E 30. MARCANGEU, J M; EGUARAS, M J; FERNANDEZ, N A Reproduction of Varroa jacobsoni (Acari: Mesostigmata: Varroidae) in temperate climates of Argentina. Apidologie 23(1): 57-60. 226/93 31 MOOSBECKHOFER, R (1992) Beobachtungen zum Auftreten besch=E4digter Varroamilben im nat=FCrlichen Totenfall bei V=F6lkem von Apis mellifera carn= ica. Apidologie 23: 523-531. 32. MORETTO, G; GONCALVES, L S; DE JONG, D; BICHUETTE, M Z (1991) The effects of climate and bee race on Varroa jacobsoni Oud. infestations in Brazil. Apidologie 22(3):197-203. 564/92 33. MORETTO, G; GONCALVES, L S; DE JONG, D (1991) Africanized bees are more efficient at removing Varroa jacobsoni-preliminary data. American Bee Journal 131(7): 434. 5661/92 34. MORITZ, R F A (1985) Heritability of the post- capping stage in Apis mellifera and its relation to varroatosis resistance. Joumal of Heredity 76: 267-270. 854/87 35. MORITZ F A; H=C4NEL H (1984) Restricted development of the parasitic mit= e Varroa jacobsoni Oud. in the Cape honeybee Apis mellifera capensis Esch. Zeitschriftt f=FCr Angewandte Entomologie 97(1): 915. 2431/85 36. MORITZ, R F A; MAUTZ, D (1990) Development of Varroa jacobsoni in colonies of Apis mellifera capensis and Apis mellifera carnica. Apidologie 21(1): 53-58. 1292/90 37. OTTEN, C (1991) Vergleichende Untersuchungen zum Populationswachstum von Varroa jacobsoni Oud. in V=F6lkern von Apis mellifera L unterschiedliche= r geographischer Herkunft. Dissertation: Johann Wolfgang Goethe Universitat, Frankfurt, Germany; 203 pp= =2E 38. OTTEN, C (1991) Factors and effects of a different distribution of Varroa jacobsoni between adult bees and bee brood. Apidologie 22(4): 465-467. 5921/92 39. OTTEN, C; FUCHS, 5 (1 990) Seasonal variations in the reproductive behavior of Varroa jacobsoni in coloniff of Apis mellifera carnica, A. m. ligustica and A. m. mellifera. Apidologie 21(4): 367-368. 1021191 40. PENG, Y-S; FANG, Y; XU, S; GE, L (1987) The resistance mechanismen of the Asian honey bee, Apis cerana Fabr. to an ectoparasitic mite, Varroa jacobsoni Oudemans. Journal of Invertebrate Pathology 49(1):54-60. 463/88 41 PENG, Y-S C; hNG, Y; XU, S; GE, L; NASR, M E (1987) Response of foster Asian honeybee (Apis cerana Fabr.) colonies to the brood of European honeybee (Apis mellifera L.) infested with parasitic mite, Vanroa jacobsoni Oudemans. Journal of Invertebrate Pathology 49: 259-264. 628/88 42. RATH, W (1991) Laboratory culture of the mites Varroa jacobsoni and Tropilaelaps clareae. Experimental and Applied Acarology 10(3/4): 289-293. 597/93 43. RATH, W; DRESCHER, W (1990) Response=20of Apis cerana Fabr. colonies towards brood infested with Varroa jacobsoni Oud. and infestation rate of colonies in Thailand. Apidologie 21(4): 311-321. 847/91 44. RINDERER, T E; GUZMAN, L l; KULINCEVIC, J M; DELATTE, G T; BEAMAN, L D; Buco, S M (1993) The breeding, importing, testing and general characteristics of Yugoslavian honey bees bred for resistance to Varroa jacobsoni. American Bee Journal 133(3): 197-200. 45. RITTER, W (1990) Development of the Varroa mite populations in treated and untreated colonies in Tunisia. Apidologie 21: 368-370. 46. RITTER, W, DE JONG, D (1984) Reproduction of Varroa jacobsoni 0. in Europe, the Middle East and tropical South America. Zeitschrift fur Angewandte Entomologie 98(1):55-57. 572/85 47. RITTER, W; BOECKING; O (1994) Grooming and removal behavior of Apis mellifera intermissa in Tunisia regarding Varroa jacobsoni. Journal of Apicultural Research (submitted). 48. ROSENKRANZ, P (1992) Personal Communication. 49. ROSENKRANZ, P; STURMER, M (1992) Ern=E4hrungsabh=E4ngige Fertilit=E4t de= r Varroa-Weibchen in Arbeiterinnen-Brut von Apis mellifera carnica und Apis mellifera capensis Annales Universitatis Mariae Curie-Sklodowska 47: 55-60. 50. ROSENKRANZ, P; RACHINSKY, A, STRAMBI, A; STRAMEI, C; ROSTORF, P (1 990) Juvenile hormone titer in capped worker brood of Apis mellifera and reproduction in the bee mite Varroa jacobsoni. General and Comparative Endocrinology78: 189-193. 1364/91 51. ROSENKRANZ, P; TEIIVARSON, N C; SINGH, A; ENGELS, W (1993) Differential hygenic behaviour towards Varroa jacobsoni in capped worker brood of Apis cerana depends on alien scent adhering to the mites. Journal of Apicultural Research 32: 89-93. 52. ROTHENBUHUER, W (1964) Behavior genetics of nest cleaning behavior in honeybees. I. Responses of four inbred lines to disease killed brood. Animal Behavior 12:578-583. 53. RUTTNER, F (1991) Auf dem Wege zu einer varroatoleranten Carnica. Allgemeine Deutsche Imkerzeitung 25(1): 10-15. 54. RUTTNER, E; HANEL, H (1992) Active defense against Varoa mites in a Carniolan strain of honeybee (Apis mellifera carnica Pollmann). Apidologie 23(2): 173-187. 592/93 55. RUTTNER, F; MARX, H; MARX, G (1984) Beobachtungen =FCber eine m=F6gliche Anpassung von Varroa jacobsoni an Apis mellifera L. in Uruguay. Apidologie 15(1): 43-62. 961/85 56. SCHOUSBOE, C (1986) The duration of sealed cell stage in worker honeybee brood (Apis mellifera L) in relation to increased resistance to the Varroa mite (Varroa jacobsoni Oud.). Tidsskrift for Planteavl 90:293-299. 806/88 57. SCHOUSBOE, C (1990) Seasonal variation in duration of capped stage in worker bee brood. Tidsskrift for Biavl 124(2): 50-52. 58. TEWARSON, N C; SINGH, A; ENGELS; W (1992) Reproduction of Varroa jacobsoni in colonies of Apis cerana indica under natural and experimental conditions. Apidologie 23(2):161-171. 450/93 59. THRYBOM, B; FRIES, I (1991) Development of infestations by Varroa jacobsoni in hybrid colonies of Apis mellifera monticola and Apis mellifera ligustica. Journal of Apicultural Research 30(3/4): 151-155. 1417/92 60. WALLNER, A (1993) Mein Weg in der Varroaresistenz=FCchtung. Bienenvater 1 14(3): 107-108. 61. WILDE, J; KOENIGER, N (1992) Selektion auf Verk=FCrzung der Zellverdeckelungsdauer (ZVD) der Arbeiterinnenbrut von Apis mellifera carnica. Annales Universitatis Mariae Curie-Sklodowska 47: 133-136. 62. WOYKE, J (1989) Breeding of honey bees resistant to Varroa jacobsoni. American Bee Journal 129(1): 21-23. 1253/89 [This review was presented at IBRA's East European workshop on varroa (see p. 81)-Ed.] --============_-1379316289==_============ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" __________________________________________________________ Hans-Ulrich THOMAS. Beekeeper & collector of books about: - bees and beekeeping - ants (yes these small little buggers!) - nature printing e-mail: hthomas@solid.phys.ethz.ch CompuServe: 100045,2556 Fax: ++41 1 633 10 77 __________________________________________________________ --============_-1379316289==_============-- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 22 May 1996 14:38:47 AST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Tom Elliott Subject: Re: Decisions! Decisions! - Italians I think that the source of "Italians" may be of interest. I keep mainly Italians and have always had them flying in the mid to high 40s (Degrees Fahrenheit). Here in coastal Alaska bees that didn't fly until 60 degrees would be pretty useless. Tom Elliott Eagle River, Alaska ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 22 May 1996 18:39:41 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Joel Govostes Subject: People ask the strangest things... Here's a novel (albeit wiseass) question i got recently from a co-worker and couldn't answer: Will bees eat (be attracted to) artificial sweeteners? I.e., can they be "fooled" by Nutrasweet or saccharin? Not that you'd want to feed them with it, but is "sweet" to us necessarily sweet to them? (Ridiculous, i know, but had to throw it out there.) Just in case your bees start getting too portly Now if i could just get funding for this, maybe i could make it to graduate school. I'm already anticipating another in-depth study to try and find out if wasps can be embarrased. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 22 May 1996 22:28:35 +0100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Gordon Scott Subject: Re: Supercedure and swarming In-Reply-To: On Tue, 21 May 1996, Laura Downey wrote: > Yes, the colony is more established underneath the original hive than > in front. I even found some comb filled with honey underneath when I > removed the bulk of the bees. Ah hah. And I'll bet you'll find eggs and larvae when you look closely. Of course, that's not so easy where they are now. > It is so hot and humid here in Maryland that when I worked the > bees on Sunday, I almost dropped from heat exhaustion. Ooh, I hate you :-), it's cold & miserable here. > As for the books being confused about swarms and supercedures, does > this mean that swarms don't necessarily result from supercedures? My > hive did appear to have some "emergency" cells which indicated a > supercedure was taking place. With most things to do with bees, generalisations are a mistake. However, my mentor here said that if you have two cells _only_, well -- maybe three at a push, near the top-centre of one frame then the bees were superceding and would not normally swarm. If there are more cells than that, they are swarming. Three or more cells around the periphery of the nest is almost certainly swarming behaviour. I think that the word 'supercede' gets used in its English language sense as a general term for a new queen replacing an old. People sometimes ignore or misunderstand the other evidence. I doubt that a mature healthy colony would supercede in the spring. If they are weak they may, or if it's autumn (fall), or if they are a newly arrived swarm in a new nest with an old queen - yes, certainly. But if they are reasonably strong or better, my first guess would be swarming. It's what healthy bees *want* to do in the spring! Regards, -- Gordon Scott gordon@apis.demon.co.uk gordon@multitone.co.uk (work) The Basingstoke Beekeeper (newsletter) beekeeper@apis.demon.co.uk Embryo Home Page Beekeeper; Kendo 3rd Dan; Sometime sailor. Hampshire, England. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 22 May 1996 21:22:02 +0100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Paul Cronshaw, D.C." Subject: HOney COmposition Bee-listers, Check out this Web site for the nutritional content of Honey. http://www.medaccess.com/diet_guide/food1.htm Type in "%honey" and got to the bottom of list to "click here - sweets, honey" Let me know how accurate the analysis is. Paul Cronshaw DC Hobby Beekeeper Santa Barbara, CA ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 23 May 1996 07:13:17 +0100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Sid Pullinger Subject: Honey density > I've sometimes wondered whether one can reliably/accurately > check the moisture content by measuring the specific gravity -- > something that can be done with simpler & cheaper tools that a > refractometer. Anyone know? Refractometer. Current price some =A3240 Hydrometer. " " " =A325 I am still using a hydrometer bought half a lifetime ago. It may not be as accurate as a refractometer but it is accurate enough to determine whether the honey is safe to keep. Agreed it must be kept in the test sample for 24 hours but that is no great problem. It clearly registers whether the water content is too high, 1.412 is considered the danger point, water content just on 19%, or whether the honey will keep for ever, 1.430 and above. Most of my honey ranges from 1.420 to 1.430 and above, water content 17.8% to 16.2%. In reply to another query I have always found that honey can safely be extracted with around 10% open cells. Someone has already suggested another test which should be made, Shake the comb. If the honey falls out it is too weak. In this case, for the hobbyist, spin the combs briefly before uncapping. This will remove the weak honey and it can be set aside for early consumption. Sid P. _________________________________________________________________ Sid Pullinger Email : sidpul@aladdin.co.uk 36, Grange Rd Compuserve: 100343.1216@compuserve.com=20 Alresford Hants SO24 9HF England ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 22 May 1996 15:24:36 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Michael Lance High Sr." Subject: bees..where are they? I just checked my 4 hives. Everyone seems to be fine.I walked my yard & surrounding area observing various plants in bloom.As I saw bees on them, for once I could say they were mine. I hate to keep beating a dead horse but this weird. I see many referances to pesticide kills. I live & have my hives right next to fields belonging to a dairy farm.Usual crop includes alfalfa(which bees dont work), corn, or soybeans(both of which ARE worked) in addition to the various wildflowers growing in/ around the fields.I consider myself fortunate in that the farm owner does'nt indiscriminately apply pesticides.I have never had a kill problem.He does use pesticides, but in such a way they do not harm the bees.He does so with no advice from me,although he is aware (& glad for) the bees nearby.I talk with him but have never had to complain about spraying.(If it aint broke...) I feel blessed to have such a concientous neighbor.At least here, bee decline is not chemically related. P.S. While checking my hives, I was struck by the continued gentleness of these swarms.They are "Double Hybrids" from York apiaries.Been working them since first of April and still have yet to be stung. ML High "I take my chances,I don't mind working without a net, I take my chances,I take my chances every chance I get" Mary Chapin Carpenter ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 23 May 1996 07:25:09 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ted Fischer Subject: Re: small swarm REGARDING RE>small swarm Michael Moroney writes: >I am a not that experienced hobbiest, and right now I have one live hive. I had >another hive at a friend's that died over the winter. I caught a small >(softball sized) swarm and put it in the dead hive. It seems to have a nice >mated queen in it. Can I expect the small swarm to amount to anything? The >hive has plenty of honey in it but the pollen is rotten to put it mildly. It's >in an area that seems to be very good for pollen and honey (upstate NY). A new swarm, large or small, will do a good job of cleaning out debris from a dead colony. If nothing else, they will be good for your equipment. However, they can become a real asset if you can find another swarm to put with them. It is possible that in a good year such a small swarm could build up to overwintering size, but I would recommend that you combine it with another swarm if you can. At this time of the year you can just dump the new swarm into the small existing colony, and they will get along with no problems. They will sort out the queen situation for themselves. Ted Fischer ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 23 May 1996 07:31:34 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ted Fischer Subject: Re: bees ignoring sugar syru REGARDING RE>bees ignoring sugar syrup Tim Peters writes: > This year, for the first time, my girls were dis-interested in the sugar syrup >that I feed as soon as the temps go above 40 deg. At first I offered syrup >left over from last fall...it was slightly fermented..but I heated it to >175 deg and it seemed to regain some of the original sweet smell. This syrup >was turned down flat...I had it on for a week and none of the 4 hives took >any measurable amounts. Reasoning that the fermentation was the cause, I dumped >all 5 gallons and mixed a fresh 2:1 batch. While small amounts were taken, for >the most part it to has gone ignored. What gives?? >I also feed pollen substitute, since the trees don't leaf until late APR up here >(NE VT). The girls were equally unimpressed with this. There were two or three >days where they did take up the pollen sub quickly. >Although this spring has been just as terrible here as elsewhere the amount >of precip and the cool temps seemed to have provoked the trees to yield >tremendous amounts of pollen and nectar (?). All four surviving hives had >some honey left from the winter. Could it be that the combination of leftover >honey and high natural pollen and nectar has made feeding unnecessary? Your answer, it seems to me, lies in your last statements. If the hive has stored honey, they wouldn't be interested in syrup. I started a lot of package bees this spring, giving them brood chambers from hives dead of varroa, but with at least 3-4 frames of honey each. Even though I also supplied a gallon of syrup, it was barely touched by most of the package colonies. This was somewhat frustrating, since the main reason I fed was to get some Fumidil into their systems. Ted Fischer ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 23 May 1996 07:32:07 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ted Fischer Subject: Re: trapping pollen! REGARDING RE>trapping pollen! Mark Spagnolo write: >Here in Hawaii there is a big demand for pollen. I have 25 hives and >a pollen trap (of different types) for each hive. I also have a >pollen cleaning apparatus. >Does anyone have any hints or tips on collecting pollen? Anything >would be appreciated. I have strong colonies with new queens and >tight equipment. I have never attempted to trap pollen before, so >any information will be appreciated. I used to collect a lot of pollen a few years ago, for there is a good market here in Michigan for pollen as well. I always sold as much as I could collect in a summer (about 300lbs from 25 colonies.) Tight equipment is very important, especially the pollen traps. It is *very* unpleasant if bees can get down into the pollen drawers. They are usually in a foul mood by the time they are released. I assume that you have a relatively humid climate in Hawaii. We do in Michigan, and because of that, the pollen *had* to be collected every day, or yeasts would multiply and start to ferment the pollen. Even then, the pollen trays had to be exchanged every week or two and disinfected from yeast spores by heating in an oven. Another problem I had was small insects (ants and sap beetles, mainly) getting into the pollen trays. My pollen cleaner blew out the small ants, but the sap beetles weighed about the same as the pollen grains, and I had to pick them out by hand. Another contaminant is chalkbrood mummies; they also won't get blown out by the pollen cleaner, and must be picked out by hand. Maybe someone on the list has a good idea about how to deal with this cleaning problem: it was one of the reasons I got out of pollen collecting. Pollen can be stored either dried or frozen. It was easier for me to freeze it, and my customers preferred it that way as well (the pellets were softer and easier to eat). I sold it in small zip-lock bags, by quarter, half and pound sizes. Good luck. Ted Fischer ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 23 May 1996 07:31:09 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ted Fischer Subject: Re: Double layer drawn found REGARDING RE>Double layer drawn found Jim Moore writes: >...couple frames had the fondation drawn with a small >portion with two layers. Size: about 2x4 inches oval. > My quess is that this was encouraged by the queen >cage initially. The frames have sealed brood at this >point, some of it drone cells. > If it were honey supers I assume I would cut out >the uneven/two layer parts to make extracting possible. >Since it is in the brood chamber what is the procedure? > Do I cut it out? If so when? The frames are wire >reneforced vertically with end pin support. Yup. You cut it out, and as soon as possible. Sometimes this seems a shame, when there is some nice brood in the doubled portion of the frame. But the frame will only get worse from here on if you leave the doubled part in place. It will cause the bees to make the neighboring frames misshapen as well, and give you trouble ever after when trying to put these frames in another location. Also, the way it is now, the queen can hide in the irregular portion, and perhaps queen cells can be hidden in there as well. Ted Fischer ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 23 May 1996 08:23:19 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Gene Spears Subject: Varroa reference? I N T E R O F F I C E M E M O R A N D U M Date: 23-May-1996 08:20am EST From: Gene Spears SPEARS Dept: Natural and Physical Science Tel No: TO: Remote Addressee ( _bee-l@cnsibm.albany.edu ) Subject: Varroa reference? Can anyone recommend a good reference on the life cycle of Varroa jacobsoni? Preferably one with photos of the mite and from a journal that would be available on interlibrary loan... Thanks in advance! gene spears@bobcat.lmc.edu ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 23 May 1996 07:32:33 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ted Fischer Subject: Re: harvesting honey REGARDING RE>harvesting honey W. Allen Dick writes: >We try to extract before any significant amount of capping takes >place unless ambient moisture is high (Rainy weather, etc.) >Chances are greater of accidentally extracting nectar during a flow >if cells are uncapped - - especially if honey is pulled late in the >day, however uncapped honey *can* be quite ripe and ready to extract. >If we waited until all the cells were capped here, we would be >dealing with honey at 14 - 15% moisture. Far too dry. Well, I am amazed. I learn something every day on this list, and I guess it has a lot to do with one's location. My grandfather used to use a rule of thumb, to wait until the frames were at least half capped (this was in eastern Wisconsin). My experience (in southeastern Michigan) is that such frames are almost always far too wet. I go with the other postings here that allow about 10 - 20%(at most) uncapped cells. Obviously, if nectar can be shaken out, the frames are nowhere near ready to extract. However, I have never had any experience with honey as dry as 14-15%. This amazes me, and I can only explain it by geographical factors. You are indeed fortunate, if you don't have to worry about wet honey and can extract when the bees begin to cap. I have to wait until capping is almost complete, and then have to hurry to get the honey off so I can put in the Apistan. Ted Fischer ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 23 May 1996 07:49:29 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ted Fischer Subject: Re: Used Equipment query REGARDING RE>Used Equipment query Stuart Grant writes: >Today I purchased some equiptment from a couple who'd kept bees for a few >years but whose charges died over the winter. They said the bottom of the >hive was full of dead bees so I assume that the dreaded mite was the >problem. ... >My concern is that this equipment may raise the varroa count in my bees to >an intolerable level before I can treat in fall. The used equipment, even full of dead bees, will not contain living varroa mites that could get into your other bees. Varroa needs a living host, and cannot survive on dead bees or in a beehive devoid of living bees. The varroa mites will all die as well. However, you should nevertheless treat for existant varroa in your other bee colonies. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 23 May 1996 07:33:00 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ted Fischer Subject: Re: Preferred poison REGARDING RE>Preferred poison JRT writes: >I got some borax laundry additive two weeks ago. I think my wife said >it was less than $5 for five pounds. Well I mixed 1/1 syrup with about >1/2 part borax. Got a super saturate solution had some on the bottom. >Put some in a small pickle jar about 1/4 full. Put some 16d nail holes >in the lid. Set it on its side at about 30 deg. under the hive. In a >couple of hours it was killing ants. They go in the jar and never come >out. Bees can't get in so it seems to be O.K. Thank you Don Bowen. Now, here's a great idea! I have been following this thread for some time, for aside from mites, ants are the biggest pest in my yards. I have them everywhere, all sizes, all colors. From huge anthills on the outskirts of my yard area, to colonies of little sugar ants on top of my inner covers, to carpenter ants inside the wood of my hive bodies. I have been wondering how to use the detergent/borax idea, yet to keep my bees safe. Using a bait jar like this is just right. The simplest ideas are usually the best, and I'm going to give it a try ASAP. Thanks. Ted Fischer ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 23 May 1996 10:19:02 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: David Eyre Subject: Re; Virus Alert WARNING!!! Virus Alert!!!! This morning my e-mail downloaded automatically 2 unsolicited files on Varroa. When I tried to print them out my Norton Anti-Virus Alert informed me they were infected with a virus. Timid.431. {2}. This virus will affect your .SYS files and Command.com may halt your computer. PLEASE, PLEASE could we stop sending unsolicited files, if you have an important file which you think would be of value, then ask, or better still run it through an anti-virus first. **************************************************** * David Eyre 9 Progress Drive, Unit 2, * * The Beeworks, Orillia, Ontario, L3V 6H1. * * beeworks@muskoka.net 705-326-7171 * * http://www.muskoka.net/~beeworks * * Agents for: E H Thorne & B J Sherriff UK. * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 23 May 1996 11:00:26 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Bill Mares Subject: record-keeping Having kept my honey records for twenty years with a broken pencil and a smudged envelope, it's time to get organized. Do I make up my own spread sheet, or is there inexpensive software out there designed for beekeepers? thanks, bill mares ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 23 May 1996 09:57:28 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Steven Albritton Subject: Ants I checked my hives last night and the ants are getting bad enough that I've got to do something. I am new and started in Mid April with two 3 pound packages from South Louisiana. We set them out and they promptly combined into the same hive. We managed to get about 1 pound back in the second hive. So I have one really weak hive that I am trying to save. I purchased a feeder that installs in the top of the hive to prevent robbing. Now I've got ants crawling up the outside of the hive to get to the sugar water. Can I spray the outside of the hive with borax soap or must I try spraying the bottom of the hive trying to stay away from the bees? ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 23 May 1996 07:25:09 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ivan McGill Subject: Re: harvesting honey >Ivan McGill wrote: >> In the rainy season or if in doubt if the honey is not ripe enough I have a >> small dehumidifier which is used for 3 or 4 days if the supers are >> extremely wet. I have taken honey that is 18% down to 17%. I don't use it >> to ripen honey just to take the moisture down to an exceptable %. If you >> leave it on too long the honey gets very dry and hard to extract. >> >> IvanI keep bees in s.e.Kansas and it is usually quite warm and humid in >the fall when I do my extracting. I usually extract in September. >Some years I have found the moisture content of the uncapped honey >to be lower than that of the capped honey. >I run a water jacketed sump tank that holds 20+ gallons of honey. This >unit puts out quite a lot of heat even though I only keep it at 100 deg. >It seems like every year my honey will tend to run a bit high on moisture >like in the range of 18-19% as brought in from the hive. >In order to keep the moistue down I run 2 small dehumidifiers. This also >adds to the heat in the honey house so I installed a window air conditioner. >This unit also dehumidifies air in the honey house and makes the temperature >bearable to work in. >I will spend a day or two bringing in supers of honey,stack them on 2x4 >boards and stagger them a bit in the stacks for ventilation and run a fan >to circulate the air. >Put this all together and my moisture content in the barrel is in the range >of 17.2 to 18.2%. >I have found the only reliable way to judge moisture content is to test it >with a refractometer. Honey stored for a number of months must have a >moistue content of no more than 18.5%. One bad barrel can pay the cost of >the refractometer. If one beekeeper can not justify the cost maybe by >going in with several other beekeeping friends it could be justified. Answer: If you use the dehumdifier in the heat room (and I forgot to mention that I use it before I extract) it brings down the moisture content quicker. About 10 years ago I visited a some beekeepers in the northern part of our province they were shutdown because of moisture content. I mentioned that I had been using the dehumidifier for sometime. They ordered the largest one they could get and within 3 days they were extracting again. They used it in the heat room. As far as cost of a refractometer and a dehumidifier to a small beekeeper, lose a few customers because of high moisture content honey and the cost is quite small. Good news travels slow, bad news fast. Ivan ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 23 May 1996 08:14:17 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ivan McGill Subject: Re: record-keeping > Having kept my honey records for twenty years >with a broken pencil and a smudged envelope, it's >time to get organized. > Do I make up my own spread sheet, or is there >inexpensive software out there designed for beekeepers? thanks, >bill mares I have a Mac and I use Claris Works spreadsheet, then put in the what I need. You could ask your accountant which program they use that makes it easier for them to do your books. If you do your own, use what is simpliest. There are programs for just about everything, check with your local computer store. Ivan ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 23 May 1996 11:39:33 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ted Fischer Subject: Re: Ants REGARDING RE>Ants Steve Albritton writes: "I checked my hives last night and the ants are getting bad enough that I've got to do something. I am new and started in Mid April with two 3 pound packages from South Louisiana. We set them out and they promptly combined into the same hive. We managed to get about 1 pound back in the second hive. So I have one really weak hive that I am trying to save. I purchased a feeder that installs in the top of the hive to prevent robbing. Now I've got ants crawling up the outside of the hive to get to the sugar water. Can I spray the outside of the hive with borax soap or must I try spraying the bottom of the hive trying to stay away from the bees? I would not spray anything around the hives. Bees could be affected by the detergent as well as ants. There was a post about a week ago that suggested putting the detergent with 1:1 syrup into a small jar, punching nail holes into the jar cap, and putting it on its side in the path of the ants. I'm going to give this a try, because, like you, ants are attacted in huge numbers to my hivetop sugar syrup feeders. I think I fed more ants than bees with mine. Ted Fischer ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 23 May 1996 08:43:55 AST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Tom Elliott Subject: Re: small swarm Ted Fischer writes, "At this time of the year you can just dump the new swarm into the small existing colony, and they will get along with no problems. They will sort out the queen situation for themselves." This may be true, but I have added two swarms together just as you describe, and ended up with no queen. I like to take the initiative, just to be sure. Tom Elliott Eagle River, Alaska ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 23 May 1996 12:16:01 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Victor M. Kroenke" Subject: Preserving wooden-ware I would like to find the perfect solution for preserving woodenware if there is such a thing. I have done some expermenting with various degrees of success. I am mainly interested in bottom boards and hive bodies(brood chambers). The area is S.E.Kansas USA. Winter temp of -10 degrees and summer temp of over 100 degrees for short periods of time. Relative humidity usually on the high side. The method I currently use is to immerse the parts in a 2% solution of copper napthenate and let them dry out. Then apply an oil primer followed by oil paint on all sides after assembly. I tried latex primer with latex paint (no preservative precoating) on a few new hive bodies about 10 years ago. The first one completely rotted out within one year however the paint still looked great. I would be interested in your tried and true methods and also in your tried and failed methods. I have enjoyed the articles in this discussion and have picked up some good ideas. Thanks to all. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 23 May 1996 15:42:53 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Robin Wells Subject: Re: swarm prevention for the hobbiest? Franklin D. Humphrey Sr. wrote: > > I know of a hobbyist who winters 10 colonies and only 10 colonies each year. > He winters in double brood chambers and splits each spring using queen cells > or commercial queens as conditions require. He then recombines in the fall > keeping the younger queen. He has very few swarms using this method. In > good years such as we had here in 93, the splits will make one or two supers > of honey. The splits are kept close beside the original colony so that if > trouble develops in it then the split can become a brood donor or can easily > become the primary producer. > > Net result: Virtualy no swarming and no net increase in number of coloines. I tend to agree with your net result if that is in fact your goal. However one coloney split in to two will not produce as much honey combined that same year as the one coloney would if retained as one. Agreed the possibility of swarming is increased, but it depends again on your goal. -- ######################### rawells@jenera.com http://www.jenera.com ######################### ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 23 May 1996 15:54:43 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Tim Peters Subject: Re: record-keeping At 10:37 AM 5/23/96 -0500, you wrote: > > Having kept my honey records for twenty years >with a broken pencil and a smudged envelope, it's >time to get organized. > Do I make up my own spread sheet, or is there >inexpensive software out there designed for beekeepers? thanks, >bill mares > I'd be interested in this also, since I am presently working up my own sheet on Lotus. Nothing creative or original mind you. As a guide or starting point I'm using a page snitched (with permission) from a pad of log sheets that my local supplier had in stock. These logs have many more data columns than I will need so I am creating my own sheet with only those data points that are relevent for me. Tim Peters, Kirby VT tpeters@kingcon.com KirBee Apiary, Bear Bait Honey I rather be flying! ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 23 May 1996 16:00:40 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Tim Peters Subject: Re: bees..where are they? At 04:39 AM 5/23/96 -0500, you wrote: > > >my hives right next to fields belonging to a dairy farm.Usual crop includes >alfalfa(which bees dont work), corn, or soybeans(both of which ARE worked) >in addition to the various wildflowers growing in/ around the fields.I My region is also dairy farming, exclusively, and I think the reason bees don't work alfalfa is because the value of this crop as silage after the bloom is much less than if it is cut BEFORE the plant puts out blossoms. All farmers that I have asked say they do their cutting well before the alfalfa crop is in bloom. >P.S. While checking my hives, I was struck by the continued gentleness of >these swarms.They are "Double Hybrids" from York apiaries.Been working >them since first of April and still have yet to be stung. > ML High > > At the risk of sounding like a nut case...I believe that the more you work with your girls and as they become familiar with you as 'their' keeper...as you develop that physic connection they will become even more gentle..if that's possible. You do have to keep your pant legs secured though. If a number of bees are knocked on the ground while you do your inspections they just LOVE to crawl up your legs! I got cocky last year and went out without my pants cuffs tucked. One of my girls got all the way up inside my shorts and I got it RIGHT ON THE BUTT!!!!! -:) Nice to know someone else out there is enjoying these delightful critters! Tim Peters, Kirby VT tpeters@kingcon.com KirBee Apiary, Bear Bait Honey I rather be flying! ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 23 May 1996 14:02:49 -0600 Reply-To: allend@internode.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Allen Dick Organization: The Beekeepers Subject: Re: Preserving wooden-ware > I would like to find the perfect solution for preserving woodenware > if there is such a thing. We submerge our pallets in hot parafin wax at just under smoking temperature for a minute or two, then drain. Some we did about 15 years ago are starting to rot now after year round use on the ground. Regards Allen W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper VE6CFK RR#1, Swalwell, Alberta Canada T0M 1Y0 Internet:dicka@cuug.ab.ca & allend@internode.net Honey. Bees, & Art ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 23 May 1996 16:05:43 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Tim Peters Subject: Re: Hybrid Vigor? At 03:54 PM 5/21/96 -0500, Mark Egloff wrote: > > Tim: > > If you have been used to the "hybrid vigor" of Double Hybrids > then perhaps it is understandable that pure bred Italians may > seem a little slow for you. I think that the Hive and the > Honey Bee talked about the productivity of "hybrids" due to the > fact that they ARE hybrid. If a newcomer to the craft learns > that the "vigor" is "normal" bee behavior, then non-hybrids > should look slow and "unimpressive".;-) > Mark: Thanks for your remarks. As usual I completely overlooked the possibility of my outlook being skewed by having experience with only one of many strains. I purchased the hybrids BECAUSE they were advertised as having the best traits of many other species. What elese should I have expected???? DUH! To All: All things have their advantages and distadvantages, their pros and cons, their yin and yang, the good, the bad (& the ugly?). In my limited experience I have not been able to discern a single negative trait of my Double Hybrids. Now certainly they must have something which prevents the entire beekeeping world from converting to these special hybrids. Can someone fill us in on what that might be? Tim Peters, Kirby VT tpeters@kingcon.com KirBee Apiary, Bear Bait Honey I rather be flying! ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 23 May 1996 16:03:29 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ted Fischer Subject: Re: Virus Alert REGARDING RE>Virus Alert David Eyre writes: "This morning my e-mail downloaded automatically 2 unsolicited files on Varroa. When I tried to print them out my Norton Anti-Virus Alert informed me they were infected with a virus. Timid.431. {2}. This virus will affect your .SYS files and Command.com may halt your computer. PLEASE, PLEASE could we stop sending unsolicited files, if you have an important file which you think would be of value, then ask, or better still run it through an anti-virus first." Well, I received the same two files as enclosures, put them in my hard drive, and after your warning, went to print them out. I had no trouble doing this - they printed out fine after I changed the text format to Word format. Then I ran the virus detection program Disinfectant on my Mac, and no viruses at all were detected. There must be a major difference between your system and mine. I greatly appreciated the paper on selection for varroa resistance in honeybees. But I will have to agree with your advice, that one should ask first before sending unsolicited material, no matter how generally helpful it may be. Ted Fischer ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 23 May 1996 18:51:34 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Doug Yanega Subject: Re: bees..where are they? >At 04:39 AM 5/23/96 -0500, you wrote: >> >> >>my hives right next to fields belonging to a dairy farm.Usual crop includes >>alfalfa(which bees dont work), corn, or soybeans(both of which ARE worked) >>in addition to the various wildflowers growing in/ around the fields.I > > My region is also dairy farming, exclusively, and I think the reason > bees don't work alfalfa is because the value of this crop as silage > after the bloom is much less than if it is cut BEFORE the plant puts > out blossoms. All farmers that I have asked say they do their cutting > well before the alfalfa crop is in bloom. It's been pretty adequately demonstrated that the reason honeybees don't work alfalfa is that they literally won't tolerate being hit on the head every time they trip a flower (which is what happens when an Apis visits alfalfa) - as long as there are alternative flowers available, alfalfa is bottom of the list because of the physical difficulty operating the flowers. That's why folks have been using things like Alkali bees and Leafcutter bees for decades to pollinate their alfalfa. Sincerely, Doug Yanega Illinois Natural History Survey, 607 E. Peabody Dr. Champaign, IL 61820 USA phone (217) 244-6817, fax (217) 333-4949 affiliate, Univ. of Illinois Urbana-Champaign, Dept. of Entomology http://www.inhs.uiuc.edu:80/~dyanega/my_home.html "There are some enterprises in which a careful disorderliness is the true method" - Herman Melville, Moby Dick, Chap. 82 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 23 May 1996 20:32:39 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Malcolm (Tom) Sanford, Florida Extension Apiculturist" Subject: May Issue of APIS Distributed to: USR:[MTS]INTERNET.DIS;87, mts FILENAME: MAYAPIS.96 Florida Extension Beekeeping Newsletter Apis--Apicultural Information and Issues (ISSN 0889-3764) Volume 14, Number 5, May 1996 Copyright (c) 1996 M.T. Sanford "All Rights Reserved" HIGH HONEY PRICES--THE FALLOUT What appears to be shaping up as a world honey shortage, in addition to the Chinese antidumping suit effectively pursued by the beekeeping industry, are providing beekeepers with the best honey prices in a very long time. This has led to dislocations, however, as producers and packers change their business practices in response. For packers it has meant shorter contractual periods and shifts in inventory acquisition strategy. For producers, it has resulted in a return to honey as the principle enterprise in the beekeeping operation. For everyone, it will probably mean more economic adulteration (See August 1994 APIS). Perhaps the most significant fallout from all this is a sudden shortage of colonies for commercial pollination. Mr. Laurence Cutts, Florida's chief bee inspector, reports a reduction in the number of pollinating units being sent to the northeast. This season, only 6,000 hives made the journey, far less than the traditional 35 to 40,000 of past years. In addition, no Florida bees were shipped this season to California for the almond bloom. There is little question that it is more profitable to let bees stay on a honey flow than move them into far more risky pollination endeavors. The traditionally low commercial pollination prices simply don't measure up to the potential of a honey-producing colony at today's prices. The scarcity is apparently hitting northeastern blueberry growers hard and will affect other crops in that area as well. Even Florida watermelons, attractive for commercial pollinators in most seasons, could be affected. Although blooming after most nectar flows, the lateness of this year's nectar season means that many colonies may not be available early enough to pollinate those first and most-profitable watermelon blooms. AMERICAN FOULBROOD ON THE INCREASE? In the rush to make increase in colonies, another result of high honey prices seems to be a rise in the incidence of American foulbrood (AFB). Almost eliminated from Florida apiaries last year, according to Mr. Cutts, the disease has resurged. Complacency appears to be the culprit, as beekeepers have failed to preventatively treat and manage their colonies to control this disease. All beekeepers in Florida are required to register with the Florida Department of Agriculture and Consumer Services (see November 1992 APIS). This provides for an annual AFB inspection. Many beekeepers also feed the antibiotic Terramycin(R) on a preventative basis (see September 1994 APIS). If the disease is found, the colony is required by law to be destroyed along with the bees and honey by burning, the most effective way to destroy reservoirs of infectious bacterium. The state inspection service provides a small remuneration for colonies it destroys. Because the bacterium produces spores that can survive for many years in hostile environments, there is more danger of spreading AFB than other bee diseases. This is especially true because the spores can survive in honey. Although robbing bees do spread the spores, it is probable that careless beekeepers are more responsible for outbreaks of the disease. Constant vigilance is the key, but the recent focus on making increase to take advantage of higher prices may have distracted beekeepers, allowing AFB to again become epidemic. Given this set of circumstances, it is instructive to see how Florida's disease control program compares with some others. Recently, Mr. Nick Wallingford, president of the National Beekeepers' Association of New Zealand, provided some information on the Internet concerning that country's activities in eliminating AFB. According to Mr. Wallingford, there is evidence that AFB, caused by the spore-forming bacterium Bacillus larvae, will not develop unless more than 500,000 spores are fed to a honey bee colony. [Editor's note: Other information suggests that resistance to this disease is quite variable and can be selected for by breeding programs (See July 1993, January 1995, April 1995 APIS)]. Mr. Wallingford quotes one author as saying that three possible states exist for a honey bee colony containing B. larvae spores: *The numbers of spores brought into the colony are insufficient to infect honey bee larvae. As a result, they are not able to reproduce. The spores which are present will eventually be eliminated from the colony. These colonies are defined as not having AFB, but as being contaminated with B. larvae spores. *Adult honey bees are able to detect diseased larvae before they exhibit any visual symptoms of AFB. They may remove these larvae so that the colony will not appear to be diseased when inspected. [Editor's note: This is the basis for selection programs that emphasize "hygienic" bees.] Because larvae are being affected by the pathogen and B. larvae spores are being produced, the colony is considered to have a non-clinical case of AFB. *Where there are larvae or pupae in a honey bee colony exhibiting visual symptoms of the disease, the colony is defined as having a clinical case of American foulbrood. Elimination of AFB has never been achieved on a national scale in New Zealand, according to Mr. Wallingford. It is possible, however, for the following reasons: *New Zealand has a relatively small population of the species that is affected by the disease. There are currently just under 300,000 registered beehives in the country. There are also an unknown, but nevertheless small number of unregistered beehives, and an unknown number of feral honey bee colonies. [Editor's note: Feral or wild honey bee colonies can be reservoirs for the disease. A recent colony found in a bait hive in Florida had AFB. Most reported cases occur in managed colonies.] The total number of colonies of honey bees is believed to be no greater than 400,000 in New Zealand, far fewer than other animal populations for which disease control programs were carried out. *New Zealand is an isolated geographic area that receives no natural introductions of honey bees from outside its borders. Imports of honey bees and honey bee products into New Zealand are also restricted by agricultural quarantine measures. This makes the continual introduction of further B. larvae into the country unlikely. *B. larvae has a low infectivity compared to many other pathogens. By destroying beehives with clinical cases of American foulbrood, carrying out proper and periodic inspections, and taking care with the transfer of beekeeping materials between hives, it is possible to reduce the concentration of spores below the level where they can become infective. As a result, the occurrence of AFB in beehives can be eliminated, even though spores of the causative organism can persist for long periods of time. *There are a number of reported cases of New Zealand beekeepers successfully eliminating AFB from their beehives. If these beekeepers can do this, it is possible for others to do the same. The goal of the New Zealand program, Mr. Wallingford concludes, is to reduce the reported incidence of AFB annually by an average of 10 percent of the first year's reported incidence, over the first five-year term of the strategy, and down to 0.1 percent by the end of the second term (the year 2006). The three keys to the success of this program are adequate inspection, proper diagnosis and the elimination of clinical cases, exactly the conditions found in Florida last year. Given the Florida experience, New Zealand's program is theoretically possible. Maintaining the low AFB level once it has been achieved, however, will no doubt be the greater challenge. ROYAL JELLY--A HEALTH HAZARD? The April Apis Melbourne (see March 1996 APIS), from Australia, carried a story that caught my attention. ANOTHER DEATH FROM ROYAL JELLY, quoted from Foodmonitor, Vol. 1, No. 4, January/February, 1996, by Des Sibraa, General Editor: "In September 1995 we published a report of the Coroner's inquest into the death of a twelve-year-old Cooma girl from an allergic reaction to royal jelly. In the report we indicated that royal jelly is a food standardised by the Food Standards Code, Standard K2, and is required by the Code to carry the warning statement: 'Warning -- not recommended for asthmatics or allergy sufferers as it can cause severe allergic reactions'. We also indicated that more than one year after the code was amended to require the warning statement a small survey indicated that there were no packages of royal jelly on sale which carried the required warning statement. "In January 1996 it was reported that there had been a further death from royal jelly. A twenty-three year old woman was reported to have died in Hornsby Hospital after the consumption of royal jelly. Investigations revealed that the royal jelly had been purchased in Hornsby and did not have the warning statement as required by the Food Standards Code. The New South Wales Department of Health has now taken action to enforce the warning statement requirement and inspectors have been instructed to seek the co-operation of sellers by requesting that they remove from sale all product which does not have the warning statement until they place overstickers on the packages. If there if no co- operation the product is to be seized. The penalty provided for the sale of packages which do not contain the warning statement is $5,000 or six months' imprisonment or both fine and imprisonment. Perhaps if a little enforcement by prosecution for this offence had been taken when we reported this deficiency the life of the latest victim might have been saved. We will be interested to hear, and will publish, any explanation by the Department of Health of their failure to enforce the code. A further survey revealed that in February 1996 there are still packages of royal jelly on sale without the warning statement." Recently, there have also been news stories about allergy to other bee-produced/collected products. Indiscriminate use of these materials is sometimes promoted by those with vested interests in apitherapy. As the cases above show, however, discretion is advised (see February 1994 APIS). "BEE AWARE" UPDATED The expert systems folks at the Pennsylvania State University have been busy. They are now releasing a major update to their "Bee Aware" program. This software is especially designed to help beekeepers identify and manage honey bee diseases, parasites and predators through the use of general information, specific diagnoses and a comprehensive list of references. The program is available for DOS and Macintosh. The new version is also available in CD-ROM (DOS format only). The advantage of the latter technology is that full-color graphics can be used to support the program, as well as the line drawings currently distributed on standard disk. Mr. Stan Kain did a nice review of the "Bee Aware" program in the second issue of BEE BIZ magazine, No. 2, Feb. 1996 (see December 1995 APIS). His evaluation of the program concludes: "While Penn State University developed the program to assist agricultural advisors in assisting beekeepers, the program has something for just about everyone. Veteran beekeepers can always use a 'second opinion.' Novice hobbyists will find 'Bee Aware' a reliable tool to both study beekeeping problems and to evaluate the well-being of their bee colonies. Commercial beekeepers can certainly use the pesticide information to assist in placement of colonies in areas where spraying may occur. Of course, everyone can use some help in keeping up on mite problems, too." "Bee Aware" on disk costs $35 for either Macintosh or DOS. The upgrade is available to registered users for $5. The CD-ROM version for DOS costs $50. For further information, contact Jan McClure at 814/863-0604. To order send check to Penn State University, Department of Entomology, Attention: Roxie, 501 Ag. Sciences and Industries Bldg., University Park, PA 16802. The World Wide Web URL for Bee Aware is: http://http://server.age.psu.edu/esdg/beeaware.html Sincerely, Malcolm T. Sanford Bldg 970, Box 110620 University of Florida Gainesville, FL 32611-0620 Phone (904) 392-1801, Ext. 143 FAX: 904-392-0190 BITNET Address: MTS@IFASGNV; INTERNET Address: MTS@GNV.IFAS.UFL.EDU APIS on the World Wide Web-- http://gnv.ifas.ufl.edu/~entweb/apis/apis.htm Copyright (c) M.T. Sanford 1996 "All Rights Reserved" ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 24 May 1996 08:48:52 -0300 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Stan Sandler Subject: Re: Virus Alert: Paranoia? > REGARDING RE>Virus Alert > >David Eyre writes: >"This morning my e-mail downloaded automatically 2 unsolicited files on >Varroa. When I tried to print them out my Norton Anti-Virus Alert informed >me they were infected with a virus. > Timid.431. {2}. This virus will affect your .SYS files and >Command.com may halt your computer. > PLEASE, PLEASE could we stop sending unsolicited files, if you have >an important file which you think would be of value, then ask, or better >still run it through an anti-virus first." > >Well, I received the same two files as enclosures, put them in my hard drive, >and after your warning, went to print them out. I had no trouble doing this >- they printed out fine after I changed the text format to Word format. Then >I ran the virus detection program Disinfectant on my Mac, and no viruses at >all were detected. There must be a major difference between your system and >mine. > >I greatly appreciated the paper on selection for varroa resistance in >honeybees. But I will have to agree with your advice, that one should ask >first before sending unsolicited material, no matter how generally helpful it >may be. > >Ted Fischer I also greatly appreciated the article, which I found fascinating. I read them as an ASCII file using Q edit. I did not check for virus, and I believe that nothing happened. Moreover, if the previous discussion on this list is correct, and I believe that it is, then you cannot import a virus in an ASCII text file as long as that file has no executables in it (such as macros in a Word Perfect file, which is not the same as an ASCII text file). Allen Dick made the point back in the previous discussion, that we all should have checked the "swarm" screensaver before we executed it, and there I agree. (Wasn't it a lovely screensaver though; I am still using it). I think that putting restrictions on people including pertinent text files as attachments is paranoia. I personally am not sufficiently adept at using my mailer to have figured out how to get an ASCII file into the body of my text, and if I had something of interest to share I would have to include it as an attachment. I know that I run some risk of bringing disease back to my farm when I visit another farm, or other farmers visit me, but beyond practising reasonable sanitation I would never stop visiting. Would you stop interacting with other beekeepers because you *might* pick up a bee virus from them? So even if a slim possibility exists that someday someone will figure out how to transmit a virus in a text file lets not let our good discussion be held hostage to that. I found the files Hans sent very informative and most pertinent. Regards, Stan ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 24 May 1996 09:32:51 CST6CDT Reply-To: bwhite@mda-is.mda.state.mn.us Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: BLANE WHITE Organization: Minnesota Dept of Agriculture Subject: Re: bees..where are they? Hi Doug, It has been well documented that honey bees quickly learn to get the nectar from alfalfa without tripping the flower that is why other bees are used ...they don't learn or must get the pollen. blane ****************************************** Blane White State Apiary Inspector Minnesota Department of Agriculture 90 W Plato Blvd St Paul, MN 55107 http://www.mda.state.mn.us ph 612-296-0591 fax 612-296-7386 bwhite@mda-is.mda.state.mn.us ******************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 24 May 1996 09:58:26 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Doug Yanega Subject: Re: bees..where are they? >The individual bees soon learn to get to the nectar without tripping >the flower, thus they have somewhat limited usefulness for alfalfa >pollination unless large numbers of bees are employed per acre. > [snip] > >Alfalfa does not contribute much pollen to a honey sample because >of the aversion of our bees to the trip mechanism. Therefore the >percentage of alfalfa honey produced is underreported. Nonetheless, >without alfalfa, I would not have much of a crop. > >Regards > >Allen I stand corrected - somewhere I knew that they would still take nectar, but my brain neglected to remind me of the fact before I posted. I *try* not to give misinformation, really I do... Mea culpa, Doug Yanega Illinois Natural History Survey, 607 E. Peabody Dr. Champaign, IL 61820 USA phone (217) 244-6817, fax (217) 333-4949 affiliate, Univ. of Illinois Urbana-Champaign, Dept. of Entomology http://www.inhs.uiuc.edu:80/~dyanega/my_home.html "There are some enterprises in which a careful disorderliness is the true method" - Herman Melville, Moby Dick, Chap. 82 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 24 May 1996 09:27:06 -0600 Reply-To: allend@internode.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Allen Dick Organization: The Beekeepers Subject: Re: Preferred Poison I got some borax laundry additive two weeks ago. I think my wife said it was less than $5 for five pounds. Well I mixed 1/1 syrup with about 1/2 part borax. Got a super saturate solution had some on the bottom. Put some in a small pickle jar about 1/4 full. Put some 16d nail holes in the lid. Set it on its side at about 30 deg. under the hive. In a couple of hours it was killing ants. They go in the jar and never come out. Bees can't get in so it seems to be O.K. Looks great. Several years ago I was looking all over for the correct ratio of borax to sugar and (optionally) water. I could never find the answer -- and here it is on BEE-L! The problem I have is this: Is 1/2 part borax meant to say 50%? Or some other amount? Is this the ideal amount? I understood that a much lower proportion was adequate. I think maybe the ratio for dusts was posted several months ago, but I can't recall. And, additionally, my understanding is that the borax based poisons are meant to be taken back to the ant nest and do their damage there, rather than to kill the ants that come across it in the field. I know that a small drop or two of the thick syrup made by the 'RAID' people (it comes in a little in a dropper bottle) will eliminate a whole nest of large ants. I used it on carpenter ants in my mom's cottage. So, if anyone remembers the details of making up a dust or syrup bait in greater detail than the quote above, could you please email me. Gratefully yours, Regards Allen W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper VE6CFK RR#1, Swalwell, Alberta Canada T0M 1Y0 Internet:dicka@cuug.ab.ca & allend@internode.net Honey. Bees, & Art ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 24 May 1996 12:17:45 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Robin Wells Subject: Re: Virus Alert: Paranoia? Stan Sandler wrote: > I also greatly appreciated the article, which I found fascinating. I read > them as an ASCII file using Q edit. I did not check for virus, and I > believe that nothing happened. Moreover, if the previous discussion on this > list is correct, and I believe that it is, then you cannot import a virus in > an ASCII text file as long as that file has no executables in it (such as > macros in a Word Perfect file, which is not the same as an ASCII text file). > > Allen Dick made the point back in the previous discussion, that we all > should have checked the "swarm" screensaver before we executed it, and there > I agree. (Wasn't it a lovely screensaver though; I am still using it). I > think that putting restrictions on people including pertinent text files as > attachments is paranoia. I personally am not sufficiently adept at using my > mailer to have figured out how to get an ASCII file into the body of my > text, and if I had something of interest to share I would have to include it > as an attachment. > > I know that I run some risk of bringing disease back to my farm when I visit > another farm, or other farmers visit me, but beyond practising reasonable > sanitation I would never stop visiting. Would you stop interacting with > other beekeepers because you *might* pick up a bee virus from them? So even > if a slim possibility exists that someday someone will figure out how to > transmit a virus in a text file lets not let our good discussion be held > hostage to that. I found the files Hans sent very informative and most > pertinent. > > Regards, Stan You are correct Stan, the files were ASCII (text) files; which as you stated can NOT carry any virus'. There are WORD Macro virus' out there as you also stated, and various detection schemes may or may not detect them. I am using Norton Anti-Virus for Windows 95 with the May 96 Virus Data files downloaded from Symantec. The files in question brought up no virus alert, nor would one expect there to be in an ASCII file. As far as virus go, if individuals take proper precautions to protect their computers as they would their bees, then the danger is minimized. Norton Anti-Virus as many others do have advanced detection schemes that will allow detection of not only existing known virus' but also ones to yet be written. This coupled with monthly updates in data files makes the protection rather secure. A couple of weeks ago PCMagazine had a good article on Utilities in general, and it covered Virus detection programmes. Most were rated very good, although Norton did win Editors Choice Award. -- ######################### rawells@jenera.com http://www.jenera.com ######################### ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 24 May 1996 06:24:11 -1000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Don Tinker Subject: Re: bees..where are they? >>The individual bees soon learn to get to the nectar without tripping >>the flower, thus they have somewhat limited usefulness for alfalfa >>pollination unless large numbers of bees are employed per acre. >> >[snip] >> >>Alfalfa does not contribute much pollen to a honey sample because >>of the aversion of our bees to the trip mechanism. Therefore the >>percentage of alfalfa honey produced is underreported. Nonetheless, >>without alfalfa, I would not have much of a crop. >> >>Regards >> >>Allen > >I stand corrected - somewhere I knew that they would still take nectar, but >my brain neglected to remind me of the fact before I posted. I *try* not to >give misinformation, really I do... >Mea culpa, > All of the discussion about bees not working alfalfa may sound good on paper, but when I was keeping bees in Oklahoma I had very good experience with alfalfa honey production. I did some migratory work for a few years by taking about 50 colonies to western Oklahoma after most of the clover honey had come in arount the Tulsa area. I put those 50 colonies on about 80 acres of alfalfa that was being grown to produce seed. The farmer reported to me that his production of alfalfa seed tripled when I started bringing bees to his farm. My usual production of honey from that project was about 75 pounds per colony. I forgot to tell the bees that they were not supposed to work the alfalfa. Aloha ------------------------------------------------------------ Donald Tinker On the Big Island of Hawaii HCR2 Box 9563 (808) 982-7611 Keaau, HI 96749 hilodon@ilhawaii.net http://www.ilhawaii.net/~hilodon ------------------------------------------------------------ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 24 May 1996 12:27:00 -0500 Reply-To: bbirkey@interaccess.com Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Barry Birkey Organization: Birkey Construction Subject: Re: Preferred Poison When the first talk of Borax started showing up a few weeks back, I decided to give it a try. For some reason this spring I've got carpenter ant nests showing up all over my yard. They're probably all coming over from the neighbors as I don't use insecticide on my lawn. I've tried several different methods so far. I poured very hot water with liquid dish soap in it all over the mound, I poured water with Borax in it and I also just sprinkled the Borax powder over the hill. All three methods seem to work at getting most of the ants but after a few days I notice new holes around the perimeter of the old mounds. Out of about 12 ant hills, I think only one was totally destroyed. We have been getting alot of rain lately which my help the "special treat" to get farther into the soil. The other experience I had was with the small "sugar" ants (for lack of a better word) in the kitchen. I put out plastic milk lids with 50% Borax and 50% honey and had a hoard of ants indulge themselves. After about four days, the ants stopped showing up. I picked up the lids and thought it was finished. About three days later, one of the kids (it couldn't have been me) had missed the garbage and dropped something sweet on the floor. The ants were back. Of coarse they weren't wearing colors so I don't know if they were from the same colony. I too would like to hear from others on ratio's and methods used. One other note, I had put down pieces of asphalt rolled roofing in front of each hive to keep the grass from growing but found out this spring that it also was suppling a nice roof for ants. I took them all out and within a couple of hours the ants in front of one hive had moved two mounds of eggs to the top of the inner cover and were trying to set up home. I'll go back to dodging the bees when I cut the grass next to the hives. I hope I'm not stretching out this thread too far. Maybe we need an ANT-L to start up! -Barry -- Barry Birkey West Chicago, IL. USA bbirkey@interaccess.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 24 May 1996 12:01:27 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jerry J Bromenshenk Subject: Re: Virus Alert: Paranoia? In-Reply-To: <31A5E129.5DE5@mail.bconnex.net> from "Robin Wells" at May 24, 96 12:17:45 pm Hi: Having discovered the first IBM boot sector virus on the UM campus, I had to become a sort of overnight expert. Viruses are pesky and are being produced at such a fast rate that even the best anti-virus programs may miss some. A good example is a nasty bit of work called the INT-10 virus that keeps popping up on our sister campus. It really does a job on hard disks. First time it appeared (about 1 yr ago) we tried six anti-virus programs. One found INT-10 but could not fix it, one was able to detect and fix it, and four totally missed it. Norton puts out a good product. We use Norton and one other program, which is either available for free or for a very minimal charge. The program is called F-Prot. One of our compyuter gurus says the author of F-Prot is a world class security expert. Over the years, F-Prot has found more viruses than any other program that I have used, public domain or commercial. It certainly is a best buy. Look for it on the web, you can get it via an FTP site. Cheers Jerry Bromenshenk jjbmail@selway.umt.edu http://grizzly.umt.edu/biology/bees ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 24 May 1996 12:56:14 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: WILLIAM G LORD Subject: Re: Preserving wooden-ware In-Reply-To: <31A4B971.64D1@tyrell.net> from "Victor M. Kroenke" at May 23, 96 12:16:01 pm This is a non-toxic water repellant wod preservative developed by the U.S. Forest Products Lab. It is a cheap version of Thompson's Waterseal. I add more paraffin to soup it up. It works very well for me and will accept oil or latex paint if you let it fully dry. 3 cups polyurethane 1 oz. paraffin wax mineral spirits to make a gallon melt paraffin in double boiler or microwave. add to other 2 ingredients and mix well. Bill Lord -- WILLIAM G LORD E-Mail : wglord@franklin Internet: wglord@franklin.ces.ncsu.edu Phone : 9194963344 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 24 May 1996 14:33:44 -0600 Reply-To: allend@internode.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Allen Dick Organization: The Beekeepers Subject: Re: Preferred Poison Okay, I got the correct proportions: No more than 5% borax, mixed into a thick syrup (Corn or Cane), and applied in doses of a drop or two where ants travel. Questions: 1. Will this work on *all* ants, or only sugar loving ants? Is there something to add to get the protein loving ones -- the ones that eat our brood if they can get at it??? And 2. Has anyone come up with a convenient small dispenser -- sort of like the old ant traps? We will need to make manyl hundreds, so things like jars are a little awkward, and breakable. A consideration is that these little traps will be dispersed here and there where required and may never be picked up again if lost in the grass. Moreover, they may be stepped on, run over by a truck -- or a forklift, so they shouldn't shatter into dangerous fragments. They should be about an ounce in interior size, environmentally friendly (I hate that expression), and be able to easily have holes made that are slightly too small for a bee to enter. They should be able to keep water (rain) from damaging the contents when under a hive. Dixie cups? Cream containers from restaurants? I know there is something perfect for the job -- but what is it??? I thought of old queen cages, but they are not quite right -- too absorptive, and subject to water entry. Any ideas? TIA Regards Allen W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper VE6CFK RR#1, Swalwell, Alberta Canada T0M 1Y0 Internet:dicka@cuug.ab.ca & allend@internode.net Honey. Bees, & Art ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 24 May 1996 14:40:21 AST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Tom Elliott Subject: Bee & alfalfa I seem to recall reading, I am not sure where now, that honeybees were still the primary pollinator of alfalfa (in spite of all their drawbacks). Does anyone out there know if this is true or not? Tom Elliott Eagle River, Alaska Keeping Bees in the Frozen North ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 24 May 1996 23:30:34 GMT Reply-To: johntrn@ldd.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: John Taylor Organization: midwest.net Subject: Re: Preferred Poison In-Reply-To: <199605241934.AA09618@internode.net> >2. Has anyone come up with a convenient small dispenser -- sort of like >the old ant traps? We will need to make manyl hundreds, so things >like jars are a little awkward, and breakable. > >A consideration is that these little traps will be dispersed here and >there where required and may never be picked up again if lost in the >grass. Moreover, they may be stepped on, run over by a truck -- or a >forklift, so they shouldn't shatter into dangerous fragments. > >They should be about an ounce in interior size, environmentally >friendly (I hate that expression), and be able to easily have holes made >that are slightly too small for a bee to enter. They should be >able to keep water (rain) from damaging the contents when under a >hive. Dixie cups? Cream containers from restaurants? I know there >is something perfect for the job -- but what is it??? This may not go a long way toward evironmentally friendly . . . how about plastic 35mm film canisters? They will hold an ounce or two, holes are easily made, water resistant and won't shatter. You should be able to get them from a film developer. -- John Taylor -- Southeast Missouri When in danger, or in doubt, run in circles, scream and shout! ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 24 May 1996 21:45:16 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Doug Yanega Subject: Re: Preferred Poison >This may not go a long way toward evironmentally friendly . . . how >about plastic 35mm film canisters? They will hold an ounce or two, >holes are easily made, water resistant and won't shatter. You should >be able to get them from a film developer. >-- John Taylor -- An equally unfriendly but perhaps better design might be those obnoxious little "disposable" "air freshener" devices, such as the disk-like ones with little ventilation slots. Some even have adhesive on them - you could just stick them to the hive bottom. Doug Yanega Illinois Natural History Survey, 607 E. Peabody Dr. Champaign, IL 61820 USA phone (217) 244-6817, fax (217) 333-4949 affiliate, Univ. of Illinois Urbana-Champaign, Dept. of Entomology http://www.inhs.uiuc.edu:80/~dyanega/my_home.html "There are some enterprises in which a careful disorderliness is the true method" - Herman Melville, Moby Dick, Chap. 82 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 25 May 1996 14:17:39 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "David. E. Goble" Subject: Re: Swarming/Queen Substance. >> had a great idea while answering this question, and put down that with the >> increased population the concentration of queen substance was less (per >> bee, i mean). Doc Morse graded the exam and when i got it back there was >> an emphatic "NO!" sprawled across that part of my answer. > >I think he was too hard! Its always been one of the simplified >explanations I've heard and used. And when the queen begins to age, >she just doesn't provide enough pheromone *per bee* to maintain the >colony social order, and it leads to swarming... > >Give yourself half credit and tell them I said it was OK! :) > > >------------------------------------------ >Nick Wallingford >President - National Beekeepers Assn of NZ >NZ beekeeping: http://www.wave.co.nz/pages/nickw/nzbkpg.htm >work nw1@boppoly.ac.nz home nickw@wave.co.nz >------------------------------------------ > Hi Nick & Joel; Your Prof, was correct to say no, I consider his reaction, to accept your exam paper at all,as a resit should have been demanded. Your hypothesis regarding queen substance, is suspect, The queen secretes this substance, then the nursery attendants carry it to all the other bees. If this substance is in short supply, the bees become uncontrolable in many areas. This can be swarming, seperate clusters in the hive, instead of one cluster or many other reponses. Queen substance is a hive identification characteristic for that hive, and this enables the guard bees to identify robber bees. The number of bees in each hive does not change any of the transmission characteristics of this queen substance, except when the hive strength is unable to maintain the hives survival. Thanks from : goble@eastend.com.au http://www.eastend.com.au/~goble degob1@mugc.cc.monash.ed.au ( David Goble ) American Beach Kangaroo Island South Australia ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 25 May 1996 14:18:33 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "David. E. Goble" Subject: Re: Supering >At 12:02 PM 5/17/96 CDT, Ray Nabors wrote: >> The most productive method of supering is to place the second super on >> top of the brood chamber when the first super is half full or half >> drawn out. The first super should be full and ready to come off when >> the third super is placed over the brood nest. The second super should >> be half full by that time. This keeps only two supers on the bees at >> all times and encourages them to work. If you have 100 out yards with >> 25 colonies in each this method would be rediculous so you put on all >> three at once. If you are a one apiary beekeeper, this is more often >> than not the most productive method. >> >The next question is what do you do with the full super you take off? Most >hobby beekeepers like myself do not have a permanent extraction area set up. >If I took off each super as it was filled, even with my 10-15 hives, I would >have to setup and cleanup at least 3-5 times each summer. This would make >for a very mad wife as I extract in my kitchen. As soon as I finish my >honey house, this method sounds like it would be worth trying. > >Another possible consideration here in La is that the mass of filled supers >acts as a heat sink to stabilize the hive temp. variations with the >extremely strong sun and insulate the brood nest. This way the bees don't >spend so much time cooling the hive and can perform other tasks. Is this valid? > Hi Doug, This heat protection you talk about, can also cause hive collapse. A sudden increase of any heat, places the bees in stress, also created excessie use of fresh water, reducing your honey collection and working ability of your bees, if you do not remove your full supers of capped honey, your bees become lasy, aggressive and if not remove at least once a year will died out or leave your hive, giving a good feed to mice, cockroachs,etc. Also if there is a sudden cold change, the insulation becomes a space to warm up. Thanks from : goble@eastend.com.au http://www.eastend.com.au/~goble degob1@mugc.cc.monash.ed.au ( David Goble ) American Beach Kangaroo Island South Australia ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 25 May 1996 14:18:47 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "David. E. Goble" Subject: Re: Comments & suggestions appreciated >On Sat, 18 May 1996, David. E. Goble wrote: > >> Looking at your hive every six days is creating the situation >> for your bees to swarm, at the start of spring your whole hive >> should be inspected for swarming cells and the state of your >> [snip] > >Our climate is western maritime, I think rather like Vancouver >Island, cooler and less moderate than Cristchurch N.Z, warmer >and more moderate than Chicago. The population of England & >Wales is 370/km2, compared to NY state 140/km2, NZ 10/km2 and >CA/Aus around 1 or 2/km2. > >PS -- I've just seen on the news that it's snowing on Dartmoor! > >Best regards, >-- >Gordon Scott gordon@apis.demon.co.uk gordon@multitone.co.uk (work) >The Basingstoke Beekeeper (newsletter) beekeeper@apis.demon.co.uk >Embryo Home Page >Beekeeper; Kendo 3rd Dan; Sometime sailor. Hampshire, England. > Hi Gordon, As your situation goes, there is no difference what type of brood box or hive equipment, however, if your queen in the most productive time of each year, does not lay 1200 to 1500, eggs per day, (24hrs) your brood numbers will decline and your pollination of your plants will fail to be meet. This is because the field bees have declined, owing to the lack of ongoing hatching brood. Thanks from : goble@eastend.com.au http://www.eastend.com.au/~goble degob1@mugc.cc.monash.ed.au ( David Goble ) American Beach Kangaroo Island South Australia ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 25 May 1996 14:19:00 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "David. E. Goble" Subject: Re: "creating the situation" > David Goble wrote: > > "looking at your hive to much, will create stress, which will cause > disease or swarming, etc." > > As a hobbyist, I try to get into my hives every week. I have not had > a swarm in 15 years of keeping bees. Nor have I had disease problems. > It really depends a lot on how you handle the bees. I use a minimum > of smoke and slow deliberate movements. I have watched a queen laying > eggs as I held the frame, I have seen "dancing" workers. I really > doubt that 'such' manipulations increase swarming. Plus I have never > heard that ample supering would do more than reduce the incidence of > swarming. > > Tom Elliott > Eagle River, Alaska > Hi Tom, There is manipulation and then there is manipulation, ( remember you treat your bees as you would your girlfriend or man friend). Thanks from : goble@eastend.com.au http://www.eastend.com.au/~goble degob1@mugc.cc.monash.ed.au ( David Goble ) American Beach Kangaroo Island South Australia ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 25 May 1996 14:19:11 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "David. E. Goble" Subject: Re: Supercedure and swarming >When a swarm takes place due to supercedure, do they take their "old" >queen despite her condition? > >If so, and the queen is ailing and cannot fly any distance, is it >possible that the swarm will settle very close to the hive, i.e. beneath >the hive if it is placed on blocks, thereby giving a small amount of >space to settle? > >Is the best solution to this situation, if this is indeed what is >happening, to hive the swarm? If the queen cannot be found, is it >suitable to provide them with a frame or two of larvae? > >I think this is what is happening with one of my hives. When I got home >from work on Friday, it was on the cool side and rainy. There was a >_large_ beard of bees on the bottom of the entrance. I knew the bearding >wasn't due to hot weather. The bearding was still in place on Sunday. > >I had checked this hive just a few days prior. I noticed that the queen >was there, but rather emaciated. There was larvae present in the hive, >but not in any great number. I noticed one or two emergency cells >hanging from the middle of the frames. > > >Laura Downey >Anne Arundel Co., Maryland >corvi29@smart.net > Hi Laura, If the swarm leaves before the new queen hatchs, yes the old queen goes with them, however, if this queen is unable to lead them, the swarm will return to the hive, where the first hatching queen will take the old queens place, and if the hive is still crowded, that queen will leave with the swarm(approx, 70% of bees) Killing the old queen is supercedure, swarming is hive numbers to great for the space. Thanks from : goble@eastend.com.au http://www.eastend.com.au/~goble degob1@mugc.cc.monash.ed.au ( David Goble ) American Beach Kangaroo Island South Australia ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 25 May 1996 14:19:45 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "David. E. Goble" Subject: Re: Swarming > < Looking at your hive every six days is creating the situation for your >bees to swarm, at the start of spring your whole hive should be inspected >for swarming cells and the state of your hive, then if you keep placing more >supers on this hive, you are allowing the bees to store nectar and return to >you.> >I think it is not wise for David Goble to generalise. Climates, flora and >seasons vary from country to country. What may work in Australia certainly >would not work here. We have a swarming season extending over two months, >May and June, and one early inspection will not tell us that the bees intend >swarming in three weeks time. Piling on the supers is not much help if >nothing is coming in. >This spring poor health and poor weather combined to make me ignore routine >inspections. Since my bees are normally of a non-swarming strain I trusted >them to behave. It was not to be. Three swarms in three days and a hasty >check revealed three more almost ready to go. This is an abnormal situation >and is happening to many beekeepers. Freak cold weather conditions have >kept the bees out of the supers and in the broodchambers, causing >congestion. Experts tell us that congestion leads to unequal or >insufficient distribution of queen pheromone, leading to an urge to swarm. >Whatever the reason, the bees have gone crazy, more so because the weather >is so unsuitable for swarming. One sunny day to drive them out, followed by >four days of cold and wet, as happened recently, means that some swarms that >got away will probably starve. A classic example of blind instinct where, >for once, the bees have got it wrong. Tough on the virgins left behind as >there is so little mating weather. > >As regards whether inspections cause stress, I do not know. I do know from >many trials that a routine inspection for cells carried out around midday or >early afternoon during a nectar flow causes a loss of four to six pounds >of nectar for that day but the next day everything from the work point of >view is back to normal. This is a small price to pay if it prevents the >loss of a swarm. Sid P. >_________________________________________________________________ >Sid Pullinger Email : sidpul@aladdin.co.uk >36, Grange Rd Compuserve: 100343.1216@compuserve.com >Alresford >Hants SO24 9HF >England > Hi Sid, A swarm will stay in the hive, if there is no honey or pollen, as the queen will be retarded from laying the number of eggs owing to the poor supply of nectar. That is no crowding, no swarm. Thanks from : goble@eastend.com.au http://www.eastend.com.au/~goble degob1@mugc.cc.monash.ed.au ( David Goble ) American Beach Kangaroo Island South Australia ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 25 May 1996 16:23:03 +1100 Reply-To: nickw@wave.co.nz Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Nick Wallingford Organization: Nat Beekeepers Assn of NZ Subject: Reference required... I referred several days ago to a research article, saying that I would try to locate it. Unfortunately, I haven't been able to (if you saw the state of my files, you could well understand...) Perhaps some details will remind someone else on the list, or perhaps give enough details for someone with good search capabilities to find it. It was in an Australian bee journal, probably in the 10-15 years ago era. It may have been by Graham Kleinschmidt, or may have been Keith Doull. It involved testing of the protein contents of a number of Australian pollen sources, and then, I think, a test of the protein levels of the bees before and after a period of time working the source. I *think* conclusions included the identification of a 'low quality' pollen which, even though collected in quantity, did not increase the bee's protein levels much. From this followed the suggestion that bees needed to be moved to *good* protein/pollen source in the time prior to honey flow. Does that ring a bell with anyone? (\ Nick Wallingford {|||8- home nickw@wave.co.nz (/ work nw1@boppoly.ac.nz NZ Beekeeping http://www.wave.co.nz/pages/nickw/nzbkpg.htm ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 25 May 1996 06:33:41 -0300 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Stan Sandler Subject: Re: Preferred Poison Hi Allen and all: >1. Will this work on *all* ants, or only sugar loving ants? Is there >something to add to get the protein loving ones -- the ones that eat >our brood if they can get at it??? I think it will work on most, but I'm not positive. You may just have to try it. I had the least success with some tiny sugar loving ones, you know the ones Allen, they drown in top feeders. It didn't have to do with the bait, I think it had more to do with their nest structure which is quite diffuse. There seem to be holes for their nests all over the place. The borax knocked them back but either they recovered, or they moved back to ant-paradise, the apiary, from somewhere back in the woods. > And > >2. Has anyone come up with a convenient small dispenser -- sort of like >the old ant traps? We will need to make manyl hundreds, so things >like jars are a little awkward, and breakable. > >A consideration is that these little traps will be dispersed here and >there where required and may never be picked up again if lost in the >grass. Moreover, they may be stepped on, run over by a truck -- or a >forklift, so they shouldn't shatter into dangerous fragments. > >They should be about an ounce in interior size, environmentally >friendly (I hate that expression), and be able to easily have holes made >that are slightly too small for a bee to enter. They should be >able to keep water (rain) from damaging the contents when under a >hive. Dixie cups? Cream containers from restaurants? I know there >is something perfect for the job -- but what is it??? I remember fondly travelling in India about 25 years ago and getting tea and yogurt in little disposable clay pots. Made from dirt, throw em away, they break up and return to dirt. Unfortuneately they would probably cost a half buck or more made in North America. But it does bring a thought to mind. What about leaves? Could you take a corn leaf, fold it in a boat shape, fold each end over and put one paper staple in each end to hold it (those staples rust away after a season and I bet dissolve in a week or two in a cows stomach). Put a little borax syrup in the boat and set it on the ground. Cover with one rhubarb leaf and throw a handful of dirt on to keep wind from removing. Nothing big that I know of will eat rhubarb leaves, and they will remain intact for quite awhile, keeping bees out of the boat, and keeping rain from washing bait away. If the syrup was thick enough, maybe the only thing needed is to put it on the ground and then cover with a rhubarb leaf. I have no idea whether you have access to much corn or rhubarb. Unfortuneately corn leaves are not available here yet. (We will probably have frost tonight). But I may try the rhubarb leaves as a cover in the blueberry fields. My hives are only there for 3 weeks tops, usually, and I'm sure the leaves will last quite a bit longer than that. Regards, Stan ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 25 May 1996 06:54:44 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Barry Green <101465.3246@CompuServe.COM> Subject: Swarm Screensaver Hi everyone, After 'Lurking' for some time, and reading the excellent advice and interesting articles from fellow beekeepers from all over the world, the time has come for me to add my own request. In his reply to the article about 'Virus Paranoia', Stan Sandler mentions a 'Swarm Screensaver'. I must have missed the previous discussion about this. In particular, I would like to know how/where I can get a copy of this screensaver. I am sending this request to the Bee-List, since others may also be interested. (I presume that since Stan is still using the screensaver, that it is *safe* ?) Thanks to anyone who responds, Regards, Barry Green (North Yorkshire, UK) 101465.3246@compuserve.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 25 May 1996 08:04:13 +22324924 Reply-To: tignor@vt.edu Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Adam Finkelstein Subject: Eastern Apicultural Society Conference Comments: To: bee-l@ucasc2.albany.edu Eastern Apiculture Society 1996 Conference is scheduled for July 29 - August 2 in Harrisonburg, VA. Information on the conference and Harrisonsburg area can now be accessed through the internet. Visit the EAS '96 conference web site at: http://www.ento.vt.edu/eas96 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 25 May 1996 07:56:04 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Roy Nettlebeck Subject: Re: record-keeping In-Reply-To: On Thu, 23 May 1996, Tim Peters wrote: > At 10:37 AM 5/23/96 -0500, you wrote: > > > > Having kept my honey records for twenty years > >with a broken pencil and a smudged envelope, it's > >time to get organized. > > Do I make up my own spread sheet, or is there > >inexpensive software out there designed for beekeepers? thanks, > >bill mares > > > > I'd be interested in this also, since I am presently working up > my own sheet on Lotus. Nothing creative or original mind you. As a > guide or starting point I'm using a page snitched (with permission) > from a pad of log sheets that my local supplier had in stock. These > logs have many more data columns than I will need so I am creating my > own sheet with only those data points that are relevent for me. Hi Tim , I know the log sheets that your talking about and they are good for manual record keeping.People getting started in beekeeping would find them useful, since they have most of the info that you need to follow with your hive. I'm working with word perfect and microsoft works.One is for Queen evaluation and tracking breeder lines.There are a few equations needed to work on mating designs. I may need to have a program done from the bottem up to cover what I want.As far as a record on a hive , I set up works because it came with my machine. I have Quick Books to track the business and it works well for me and my CPA. The most important part is, some kind of record on your hive or hives.If you keep some good records , you will be able to learn much more about the bees. Three years ago I had a supercedure problem and I knew who was the breeder.The most important part was the behavioral changes beside the supercedure problem.By keeping records it was easy to rule out the weather , how much room was in the hive and a few other things.You have some data to look at and a place to start asking questions. With the computer is is even faster and you can even make charts. Best Regards Roy ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 25 May 1996 13:19:37 -0300 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Stan Sandler Subject: Re: Swarm Screensaver Hi Barry: I will send you the screen saver by private mail, since I agree that executable programs should not be sent to the list. As others commented, it is much more like drones trying to catch a virgin queen than a swarm. Regards, Stan ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 25 May 1996 18:24:42 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Tom Allen Subject: BLUEBERRY POLLINATION ??'S I HAVE MANY BLUEBERRY BUSHES AND THREE HIIVES OF BEES. RARELY DO I SEE BEES ON THE BLUEBERRY BLOSSOMS, USUALLY THERE ARE GOOD CROPS OF BERRIES. WHAT TIME OF DAY DOES MOST OF THE POLLINATION TAKE PLACE? WHAT FORM OF POLLINATION TAKES PLACE? ARE THERE OTHER INSECTS WORKING AT THE SAME TIME CREATING A LIKE EFFECT? ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 25 May 1996 16:19:00 GMT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Andy Nachbaur Organization: WILD BEE'S BBS (209) 826-8107 LOS BANOS, CA Subject: Bee & alfalfa TE>From: Tom Elliott >Date: Fri, 24 May 1996 14:40:21 AST >Subject: Bee & alfalfa TE> I seem to recall reading, I am not sure where now, that honeybees were > still the primary pollinator of alfalfa (in spite of all their > drawbacks). Does anyone out there know if this is true or not? TE> Tom Elliott > Eagle River, Alaska > Keeping Bees in the Frozen North Hi Tom, Yes, honeybees are still the number one pollinator for Alfalfa seed management in California. The bee's are being moved to the seed fields right now and that movement will peak in the next ten days. Alfalfa seed growers rent about 100,000 hives in California down from the good days of the 70's when 250,000 hives were used. Over the years other species of bee's have been used to replace honeybees in alfalfa flower pollination. NONE of these has worked as advertised and few of these so called native pollinators which are not native to this area but are captured, dug up, and imported into the state. The most they have accomplished is to supplement honeybee pollination at a very high cost. Beekeeper's always have benefited from grower efforts to manage bees of any kind, as they soon find out that however you do it the cost is much grater then expected and more then beekeepers have been willing to rent hives, at this time it is about $30 per hive. Also wild bees other then honeybees suffer from similar problems as honeybees do: disease, pests, predators, and PESTICIDES. There also is a strain or sub species of leaf cutter bee's that generated much publicity as the "killer" leafcutter bee's a few years back. Not because they had ever attacked and killed anybody, but because they would take over other sub species of leaf cutter bees boles or holes. They were not thought to be such good alfalfa pollinators as they were less differential in what flowers they would work, all a lot of BS if you ask me, and I know a little bit about it because the "killer" bees came from my own bee board I kept at my home for many years and had originally capture in a wild area when at one time they were unbelievable numerous and a pest to anyone growing ornamentals such as found around most any home. BTW, my leaf cutter bees to this day have not been attacked by the pests others have had problems with such as leaf cutter chalk brood. Alfalfa seed growers use about 2 to 3 good honeybee hives per acre, and most still demand they be spread in small groups of 12-24 around the edge and in the field making it a lot of extra work for the beekeepers involved and adding nothing to the total yield of alfalfa seed then if all the bees were place in truck load lots near the fields. Growers don't understand that God gave bee's wings and some old half arsed research was done years ago that shows better yields closer to the hives is still relied on. This research also showed no difference in total yields between fields with bee's on the edge and bee's in the field as most any harvester driver would tell you. Pesticide use is still the number one beekeeping problem in the alfalfa pollination business and in some areas the extra loss from using your bees to pollinate can exceed the value of the money received in rent and honey. RULE #1, "Using honeybees for Alfalfa seed pollination is good farming practice, but is a BAD beekeeping practice." Real beekeepers pollinate alfalfa for the cash flow, bee locations, and bad judgement. I don't want to hurt anyone's feeling, but I feel that way about any practice that over populates an area with bees to the determent of the bees. It must be my age, but I learned long ago from some good beekeepers that pasture is #1, and was to be used in a way that did not harm the bees. The big difference between California beekeepers and the rest of the beekeeping world is that beekeepers here measure beekeeping pasture or territory by the field with nothing between one beekeepers bees and another's but at the most a fence or roadway. It is easy to understand why we all have the same problems be they pest, pesticide, or low honey production. In the real beekeeping world here in California the demand for bees for the almond bloom over the years has caused a increase in the numbers of bee hives (not bees in the hives) each beekeeper wants to have, the more boxes (hives) he has the more income from almond pollination. Many of these beekeepers have no summer home for their bee's other then the seed and melon fields of the great interior valley, so they pollinate and find themselves on a tread mill much the same as the pesticide one beekeepers are now into. It all has little to do with keeping good healthy bees or producing big honey crops, its more a trade off of honeybees for dollars. Nothing wrong with it, I did it myself for years being the first beekeeper to get $10, when little or nothing was being charged and the first to get $20 to pollinate almonds making many friends in the beekeeping industry and making the black list of many almond growers, but it is not good beekeeping anyway, though it may be good beekeeping business. In the end, if we are at the beginning, it is the keeper of bees that is the real endangered species and I believe that we are getting close to the end of beekeeping as I have known it. There will always bee a new generation of beekeepers as there has always been, but their numbers may be much less in the near future. ttul Andy- (c) Permission is granted to freely copy this document in any form, or to print for any use. (w)Opinions are not necessarily facts. Use at own risk. --- ~ QMPro 1.53 ~ All bees are looking for bargains in nature's supermarket ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 26 May 1996 02:32:39 -0300 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Stan Sandler Subject: Re: BLUEBERRY POLLINATION ??'S >I HAVE MANY BLUEBERRY BUSHES AND THREE HIIVES OF BEES. RARELY DO I SEE BEES >ON THE BLUEBERRY BLOSSOMS, USUALLY THERE ARE GOOD CROPS OF BERRIES. WHAT TIME >OF DAY DOES MOST OF THE POLLINATION TAKE PLACE? WHAT FORM OF POLLINATION >TAKES PLACE? ARE THERE OTHER INSECTS WORKING AT THE SAME TIME CREATING A LIKE >EFFECT? Honeybees are certainly much much worse than several native pollinators (such as bumblebees, leafcutter bees, and the blueberry bee) at working blueberries, on a PER BEE basis. However when you put good strong hives in the fields you can introduce a massive population and they will have a very good effect. I have many satisfied customers. HOWEVER, YOU HAVE TO MANAGE THEM PROPERLY TO FORCE THEM TO WORK THE BLUEBERRIES. Your three hives, Tom, are probably in the same location all year. By the time the blueberries are flowering those hives are working far more attractive bloom to honeybees, such as (in my area), dandelions, apple, wild pear, lilacs,... But if you were to move hives into fields full of blueberry when one third of the blossoms had opened, and not before, you would find that on the first day in the new location those bees would come out and see blueberries and start working them. Once they start they will tend to continue working them for a week or so until scouts have found some other really attractive blossoms. Many blueberry growers get reasonable yields using only the pollinators already in the area. However it is my impression that pesticides are lowering the population of native pollinators quite dramaticly, and the blueberry growers themselves are one of the culprits in this. Regarding time and form of pollination: The time could be any time that insects are moving. The blueberries are not wind pollinated, they must be visited by an insect to be fertilized. The honeybees rarely if ever gather pollen from blueberries, but they fertilize them incidentally in their gathering of nectar, (as was intended when nectar evolved). The bumblebees can "buzz" out large amounts of pollen from the blossoms using wing vibration. The honeybees can help in spreading these large packets around. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 26 May 1996 07:18:39 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Dave Green, Eastern Pollinator Newsletter" Subject: Re: People ask the strangest things... In a message dated 96-05-22 19:39:08 EDT, you write: > >Will bees eat (be attracted to) artificial sweeteners? I.e., can they be >"fooled" by Nutrasweet or saccharin? Not that you'd want to feed them with >it, but is "sweet" to us necessarily sweet to them? >(Ridiculous, i know, but had to throw it out there.) Just in case your >bees start getting too portly My bees wouldn't touch sorbital, even when mixed with some corn syrup. I had one barrel this spring that was sold to me as corn syrup, but wasn't. It was a total loss. It also leaves a deposit on comb, which is like rock, and the bees can't clean it up. I suspect that nutrasweet would be the same. (I had some fun by posing a similar question last year on April 1 - you might want to get the log.) I think the bees' sweetness detectors/taste buds are more effective than ours in detecting the energy content of the food. Pollinator@aol.com Dave Green, PO Box 1200, Hemingway, SC 29554 Practical Pollination Home Page Dave & Janice Green http://users.aol.com/pollinator/polpage1.html ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 26 May 1996 08:58:06 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Robin Wells Subject: Re: Virus Alert: Paranoia? Jerry J Bromenshenk wrote: > > Hi: Having discovered the first IBM boot sector virus on the UM campus, > I had to become a sort of overnight expert. Viruses are pesky and are > being produced at such a fast rate t ven the best anti-virus programs > may miss some. A good example is a nasty bit of work called the INT-10 > virus that keeps popping up on our sister campus. It really does a job > on hard disks. First time it appeared (about 1 yr ago) we tried six > anti-virus programs. One found INT-10 but could not fix it, one was able to > detect and fix it, and four totally missed it. > > Norton puts out a good product. We use Norton and one other program, > which is either available for free or for a very minimal charge. The > program is called F-Prot. One of our compyuter gurus says the author of > F-Prot is a world class security expert. Over the years, F-Prot has found > more viruses than any other program that I have used, public domain or > commercial. > > It certainly is a best buy. Look for it on the web, you can get it via > an FTP site. Can't disagree with you there! I have F-Prot Professional Version, McAfee Virus Scan and Norton Anti-Virus. Am currently using Norton, switched from McAfee to Norton a couple of weeks ago. PCMagazine tested all known virus' that are wild and zoo varieties. Zoo varities are ones t xist, but have never made it outside labs. Norton Anti-Virus won Editors Choice in their article, and caught more virus' than either F-Prot or Virus Scan. -- ######################### rawells@jenera.com http://www.jenera.com ######################### ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 26 May 1996 13:09:39 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Greg & Melinda Holley Subject: "bee songs" My wife (a teacher) wants to do a project on honeybees. She needs some songs about honeybees. Can anyone help me with this? ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 26 May 1996 14:55:11 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Malcolm (Tom) Sanford, Florida Extension Apiculturist" Subject: Introducing the APIS mailing/discussion list Distributed to: USR:[MTS]INTERNET.DIS;87, mts INTRODUCING THE APIS-L MAILING/DISCUSSION LIST Dear Newsletter Reader: I want to thank you for your continued interest in APIS: Apicultural Information and Issues, one of the longest running monthly Cooperative Extension Beekeeping Newsletters in the U.S. This publication is now celebrating its fourteenth year chronicling change in apiculture. It was first made available on BITNET and later through the Internet, officially recognized for pioneer work in electronic publishing by being featured in the lobbying document, 51 Reasons--How We Use the Internet and What it Says About the Information Superhighway. In keeping with developments in the information revolution, APIS is also archived at gopher sites, including the one maintained by IFAS (College of Agriculture) at the University of Florida (gopher://gnv.ifas.ufl.edu). It also has an extensive World Wide Web site with links among issues and to other sites. In addition to these passive archives, I have continued to make APIS available to an extensive electronic mailing list, including cross posting it to other lists such as BEE-L. This way interested persons can get a copy hot off the press. The number of requests, however, is so great that I can no longer adequately maintain this mailing list. Fortunately, there are now automatic programs which will do this job. Therefore, I have created the APIS-L mailing/discussion list. This list will be managed by a program called LISTSERV at the Northeast Regional Data Center on the University of Florida Campus. To begin receiving the newsletter on an automatic basis, you simply send a message to: LISTSERV@NERVM.NERDC.UFL.EDU Leave the subject line blank and on the first line of the message enter the only the following: subscribe APIS-L First Name Last Name. You should receive a message from the listserv asking you to reconfirm your request. Besides managing the list, the listserv provides some other benefits. These include opportunities to discuss the contents of newsletter with others directly receiving it, including the author. In addition, distributing the publication this way will help to reduce the number of redundant messages across the Internet. Instead of the full APIS issue, I will post to discussion lists and elsewhere only a summary of what each new number contains. This will serve as a friendly reminder that the newsletter is available; those who want to see the issue can then access it through gopher or the Web; anyone wanting subsequent issues sent directly to them can subscribe to the APIS-L list. Again, thank you for your continued interest in the newsletter. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Malcolm T. Sanford Phone: 352/392-1801 X 143 Extension Apiculturist Fax: 352/392-0190 University of Florida Email: mts@gnv.ifas.ufl.edu Box 110620, Bldg 970 Gainesville, FL 32611-0620 ---------- Apis on the World Wide Web: http://www.ifas.ufl.edu/~entweb/apis/apis.htm ====================================================== ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 26 May 1996 20:01:00 GMT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Andy Nachbaur Organization: WILD BEE'S BBS (209) 826-8107 LOS BANOS, CA Subject: "bee songs" G>From: Greg & Melinda Holley >To: Multiple recipients of list BEE-L >Date: Sun, 26 May 1996 13:09:39 -0400 >Subject: "bee songs" G>My wife (a teacher) wants to do a project on honeybees. She needs some songs >about honeybees. Can anyone help me with this? There are so many, try a text search on the internet...here is one that is timely that I found.. Subject: Killer_Bees.lyrics.txt Artist: The Bobs Song: Killer Bees ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ (c) 1984 Gunnar Madsen and Richard Greene, Best of Breed Music (ASCAP) All Rights Reserved. Used by Permission. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ They're coming...at the rate of 300 miles a year... They started in Brazil, And came north through Nicaragua We call them killer bees The Sandinistas call them their "freedom fighters" An evil empire of Godless, Marxist bugs How can they be stopped?! The Bees The killer bees are coming Spreading fear and terror in our land They're always buzzing, never humming They're going to swarm across the Rio Grande Insects need no green cards They fly too low to be picked up on radar How can you just say "no" to bugs? And as they spread their Marxist pollen from flower to flower, They corrupt our pure, all American bees Remember, that the words of the devil are always dipped in honey! The Bees The killer bees are coming Spreading fear and terror in our land They're always buzzing, never humming They're going to swarm across the Rio Grande July 4th, 1990, when the dreaded bees are due to hit our border We'll have "Cans across America" Insecticide Program And every able citizen will smoke cigars And from San Diego to Brownsville Special SWAT teams will stand shoulder to shoulder... Remember America, these are red bees... all workers, no drones! The Bees The killer bees are coming Spreading fear and terror in our land They're always buzzing, never humming Get our your can of spray and make a stand! --------------------------------------------------------------------- Or maybe thats not mellow enough and this one would bee better... VAN MORRISON SONG LYRICS: TUPELO HONEY __________________________________________________________________________ Tupelo Honey You can take all the tea in China Put it in a big brown bag for me Sail right around the seven oceans Drop it straight into the deep blue sea She's as sweet as tupelo honey She's an angel of the first degree She's as sweet as tupelo honey Just like honey from the bee You can't stop us on the road to freedom You can't keep us 'cause our eyes can see Men with insight, men in granite Knights in armor bent on chivalry She's as sweet as tupelo honey She's an angel of the first degree She's as sweet as tupelo honey Just like honey from the bee You can't stop us on the road to freedom You can't stop us 'cause our eyes can see Men with insight, men in granite Knights in armor intent on chivalry She's as sweet as tupelo honey She's an angel of the first degree She's as sweet as tupelo honey Just like honey from the bee You know she's alright You know she's alright with me She's alright, she's alright (she's an angel) You can take all the tea in China Put it in a big brown bag for me Sail it right around the seven oceans Drop it smack dab in the middle of the deep blue sea Because she's as sweet as tupelo honey She's an angel of the first degree She's as sweet as tupelo honey Just like honey from the bee She's as sweet as tupelo honey She's an angel of the first degree She's as sweet as tupelo honey Just like the honey, baby, from the bee She's my baby, you know she's alright..... __________________________________________________________________________ ttul, OLd Drone --- ~ QMPro 1.53 ~ ... To sway its silent chimes, else must the bee, ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 27 May 1996 09:45:45 +1200 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Robert Rice Subject: Carrot Pollination. Hi Bee_liners, Can anyone provide some information on carrot pollination, i.e., facts and sources of facts. I have a seed producer pay $100/hive and isn't sure that the bees are doing the job. Regards, Robert Rice. Apicultural Servic Manager (Sth Island) Ministry of Agriculture Lincoln New Zealand. e-mail ricer@lincoln.mqm.govt.nz ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 26 May 1996 21:13:48 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: midnitebee Subject: AGGRESSION I moved my bees to a new location.The distance was over 8 miles away,and the bees have been at their new location,for over three weeks. The most startling new behavior is their aggression. These ladies are of the "midnite"strain. Never have they behaved in this manner. As soon as I open the inner-cover,they immediately "attack" me. Thank goodness I was wearing my beesuit!! The queen is approx. two years old,and has a nice egg laying pattern. Is this behavior normal,after moving bees to a new location? I must also mention that I do not "smoke" any of my bees,but maybe this hive I should? ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 26 May 1996 22:25:58 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Ralph W. Harrison" Subject: Re: AGGRESSION Do you have skunks in the area where you moved the hive to. I had moved a couple of hives one time and had the same problem. The hives were very agressive. One thing to look for is grass flattened down in front of the hive where the skunks feast on the bees. Good luck! ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 26 May 1996 22:29:34 +22324924 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Adam Finkelstein Subject: Re: AGGRESSION In-Reply-To: <960526222556_543133738@emout14.mail.aol.com> from "Ralph W. Harrison" at May 26, 96 10:25:58 pm Hey. You might have killed the queen moving the colony. Check and see if there are any eggs in the colony. Adam -- _________________ Adam Finkelstein adamf@vtaix.cc.vt.edu ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 26 May 1996 21:01:04 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ann Dougherty Subject: Egg moving In-Reply-To: <199508251652.LAA24968@milk.engr.wisc.edu> I have two unrelated questions: Do honey bees move eggs? Cell to cell? Hive to hive? Some where I recall reading that someone said he had a colony rob an egg from a hive to raise a queen. I've been melting old combs in my solar melter and have noticed that the older the comb the less wax is recovered. Newer combs provide more wax. Can someone give me an answer as to why this is so. Thanks, Ann Ann Dougherty Kirkland, Washington USA ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 27 May 1996 07:03:16 +0100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Sid Pullinger Subject: Swarming Hi Sid, < A swarm will stay in the hive, if there is no honey or pollen, as the queen will be retarded from laying the number of eggs owing to the poor supply of nectar. That is no crowding, no swarm. Thanks from : goble@eastend.com.au> I do not grasp the meaning of your reply to my letter. A news announcer said yesterday that May has been the coldest for 300 years. My bees have ample stores of pollen and honey and the queens have been laying well, eight combs of brood in a nine comb box of deep Dadants with plenty of bees. Autumn and spring treatment has for the time being virtually eliminated Varroa. They have ample room with supers empty and ignored. My normal swarming tendency is around 10%, this year already 50% so I can only put it down to the freak weather conditions. In one way it has helped those who raise queens from swarm cells. Recent losses due to varroa in the south of England have ranged from 10% (15% for me) to 100%. If one believed in divine providence it would appear that the bees are anxious to bring population levels back to normal. Unfortunately swarms that get away are doomed, starvation for many this month and for those that survive varroa will get them eventually. Sid P. _________________________________________________________________ Sid Pullinger Email : sidpul@aladdin.co.uk 36, Grange Rd Compuserve: 100343.1216@compuserve.com Alresford Hants SO24 9HF England ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 27 May 1996 10:13:12 GMT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Franklin D. Humphrey Sr." Subject: Re: AGGRESSION At 02:25 AM 5/27/96 +0000, you wrote: >Do you have skunks in the area where you moved the hive to. I had moved a >couple of hives one time and had the same problem. The hives were very >agressive. One thing to look for is grass flattened down in front of the hive >where the skunks feast on the bees. Good luck! If You have Skunks bothering the hive, go to your local carpet store and get a piece of tack strip. Nail this to the outer edge of the landing board. When the skunk thumps the board to get the bees to come out, it will get a nasty suprise and will soon learn to leave tem alone. Franklin D. Humphrey Sr. beekeeper@wornet.att.net ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 27 May 1996 07:09:14 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Garrett Dodds Subject: Re: AGGRESSION It sounds like the queen got killed in the process of moving the hive. If you marked the queen it should be easy to tell. If they were able to replace the queen themselves, the new queen should be laying in about a week (12 -14 days for the queen cell to emerge and 7-10 days for the queen to mate and start laying). I would recommend requeening the hive, since it is so aggressive. I would also recommend using a smoker at all times, it your control over the bees. If you don't need it that's great but always have it on hand lit and ready to go just in case. Garrett ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 27 May 1996 09:07:53 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: David Eyre Subject: Re: Re; Virus Alert Comments: To: "Ken Umbach (kumbach@library.ca.gov)" "Ken Umbach wrote >like a perfectly ordinary text files! It could be the weird coincidence >that a string in the text just happens to match the signature of some >virus program known to the Norton virus checker. But text files are not >executed, so there should be no possible danger! If I am missing Hi Ken, In future I will keep my mouth shut. I put that post as a helpful hint,not virus paranoia, and all I got back was abuse, your's was the only rational comment. I don't have time to sit and watch the mail come in. I switch it on and walk away, when I came back there were two un-solicited files on my hard drive. Because I have two companies records and 3 years data, I don't open strange files without running a virus check first. When Norton had a look it reported a virus!! I certainly didn't open and examine those files, I just deleted them. Now I have a problem, as a fair minded citizen, should I report it, or just ignore it? Perhaps it would have been better to ignore it, that's what will happen in future!! Perhaps, when a few hard drives have been trashed, and valuable data lost,as happened to a friend of mine, we might decide that public dispersal of un-solicited files should be a no -no on the BEE-L. **************************************************** * David Eyre 9 Progress Drive, Unit 2, * * The Beeworks, Orillia, Ontario, L3V 6H1. * * beeworks@muskoka.net 705-326-7171 * * http://www.muskoka.net/~beeworks * * Agents for: E H Thorne & B J Sherriff UK. * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 27 May 1996 14:15:17 GMT Reply-To: RMAllott@percep.demon.co.uk Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Robin Allott Subject: social organisation Grateful for reference (by email or on the list) to the most uptodate accounts of bee social organisation, communication etc. Robin Allott RMAllott@percep.demon.co.uk ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 27 May 1996 10:28:35 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Robin Wells Subject: Re: Re; Virus Alert David Eyre wrote: > In future I will keep my mouth shut. I put that post as a helpful > hint,not virus paranoia, and all I got back was abuse, your's was the only > rational comment. > I don't have time to sit and watch the mail come in. I switch it on > and walk away, when I came back there were two un-solicited files on my hard > drive. Because I have two companies records and 3 years data, I don't open > strange files without running a virus check first. When Norton had a look it > reported a virus!! I certainly didn't open and examine those files, I just > deleted them. > Now I have a problem, as a fair minded citizen, should I report it, > or just ignore it? Perhaps it would have been better to ignore it, that's > what will happen in future!! > Perhaps, when a few hard drives have been trashed, and valuable data > lost,as happened to a friend of mine, we might decide that public dispersal > of un-solicited files should be a no -no on the BEE-L. David, I am not certain why Norton Anti-Virus showed up positive, unless we are talking about two different files mine did not. At any rate, I think you are correct in reporting the issue. If you still can get the files I would suggest rescanning them agian, and if they still show positive sent them to Symantic at http://www.symantic.com. They have on their site a location to uploaded infected files. They will perform the necessary tests, and if in fact there is no virus but Norton is reporting it then perhaps they will fix their programme. If there is some kind of a problem they will let you know. Don't get discouraged by a few comments, most of the people are well meaning I think, it is difficult to detect actual intent from e-mail. I doubt any of them were intended to be abusive in nature, likely most were intended to be helpful. Unfortuantely due to the nature of e-mail you can not detect the intended nature of the comment. Like I said, it is best to always involve Symantic in the discussion. If they in fact said it is a virus of some sort, then I doubt any body will dispute it. When you get back your reply from Symantic, which is very fast and professional; and in no way will cut you down; then simply include it in your note to the mailing list. Anybody that tries to dispute Symantic would be a fool, and most realise that. By the way, do you have any queens for sale and what is the price? I need about 2 in a week, 6 in about 2 weeks, and perhaps 3-6 more a week after that. Thanks. -- ######################### rawells@jenera.com http://www.jenera.com ######################### ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 27 May 1996 10:40:40 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Albert W. Needham" Subject: Re: Re; Virus Alert David: I, for one take your post as a helpful hint. >From my observation, messages posted on BEE-L are rooted in good motives. Even if a message seems "stupid" to some, I see no cause for anyone to be trashed by others. All in all, I find that all of you "Commercial Bee Keepers" are a very helpful lot. I notice that most all of you respond to "hobbyists" and/or "beginning hobbyists" messages in a very tolerant and helpful manner. I am sure that many of us appreciate what you guys have to say, though we may not express it! You are a very interesting and knowledgable lot of individuals. Al Needham Hobbyist Scituate, MA, USA Alwine@aol.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 27 May 1996 17:47:35 +0100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Hans-Ulrich THOMAS Subject: Re: "bee songs" In-Reply-To: <199605261709.NAA02815@termserv.gfurrow.com> >My wife (a teacher) wants to do a project on honeybees. She needs some > Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Hans-Ulrich THOMAS Subject: Apologies to the group In-Reply-To: <199605241148.IAA06651@bud.peinet.pe.ca> Please accept my apologies for the unsolicted distribution of two Varroa files to everybody. It looks like I got caried away by trying to be useful to the group. I am reading these messages for over one year now and thought that it is time to contribute something . Next time I will just publish my e-mail address so people can get a copy on demand. Some subscribers had troubles downloading the files, even complaining about a virus infection. A possible explanation might be the origin of this upload. I saved the files on a Macintosh computer in the Word 5.1 TEXT format. Before I uploaded I checked the files with "Disinfectant 3.6" and found nothing. Again: My apologies. Looks like I learned a lesson via the hard way to everybody else. Happy beekeeping and few varroa Hans __________________________________________________________ Hans-Ulrich THOMAS. Beekeeper & collector of books about: - bees and beekeeping - ants (yes these small little buggers!) - nature printing e-mail: hthomas@solid.phys.ethz.ch CompuServe: 100045,2556 Fax: ++41 1 633 10 77 __________________________________________________________ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 27 May 1996 17:28:23 +0100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Sid Pullinger Subject: Moving eggs and larvae To Ann and others interested in an old question which, as far as I know, has never been satisfactorily settled. Let me deal with the second point first. If you cut the combs into slices and stand them on edge in the solar all the wax will run out leaving the cocoons quite dry. If you lay them flat the cocoons seem to soak up the midrib wax and refuse to let it go. Try it and report back. Moving eggs and larvae. Your question rang a bell in my memory. I recalled it had cropped up forty or more years ago. An hour's search of old files found it. Long before the days of computers and bee lists this question arose in the local bee magazine. A beekeeper wrote in that he had a hopelessly queenless stock which suddenly sprouted a queen and brood. He was convinced that the bees had stolen an egg from another hive. To cut the story short the correspondence this started was ended with the following from a well known C.B.I. (county beekeeping instructor) from a nearby county. I quote--------" This question is still regarded by many as pure conjecture. The phenomenon was observed twenty four years ago, with bees removing eggs and young larvae. Tests were made to prove that bees do transport eggs and larvae, the procedure adopted being as follows. A good strong colony was selected and the queen removed. Queen cells were started and in due course removed so there was no chance of the bees raising a queen from their own brood. Twelve straws around six inches long were trimmed obliquely at one end to resemble a quill pen. A comb containing eggs and larvae was taken from another stock. Three 24hr worker larvae were lifted out complete with royal jelly, one to a straw. The other straws were moistened with royal jelly to make them sticky and three or four eggs to a straw were selected, twelve drone and twelve worker. The straws were carefully bundled and inserted between two combs of capped brood in the de-queened colony and left for nine days. All the straws were found to be bare, there were three queen cells and two small clusters of worker and drone brood, the number of cells corresponding to the number of eggs given. This test has been repeated with similar results, confirming the original observation made twenty four years ago, that bees do carry eggs and larvae." End of quote. This letter was written in 1951. Whilst I can accept that bees in an emergency will transfer young brood, in this case there was 100% acceptance of eggs and larvae. This I find hard to believe. Also how did the bees distinguish between drone and worker eggs? As far as I know they appear identical but perhaps they have a different odour. Questions, questions. To bring it up to date what about some of you up and coming young beekeepers running the same experiment. Regards Sid P. _________________________________________________________________ Sid Pullinger Email : sidpul@aladdin.co.uk 36, Grange Rd Compuserve: 100343.1216@compuserve.com Alresford Hants SO24 9HF England ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 27 May 1996 12:37:37 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Rick Grubbs Organization: Beekeeper Subject: Re: Moving eggs and larvae Sid Pullinger wrote: > To bring it up to date what about some of you up and coming young beekeepers > running the same experiment. Regards Sid P. > _________________________________________________________________ > Sid Pullinger Email : sidpul@aladdin.co.uk > 36, Grange Rd Compuserve: 100343.1216@compuserve.com > Alresford > Hants SO24 9HF > England I had a nuc that was queenless and could not find any eggs or larva, I remove a shallow frame from a strong hive that contained only eggs. I inspected the nuc a few days later to see if they had built any queen cells and could not find any, nor could I find a single egg left on the shallow frame. I don't know what became of the eggs on the shallow frame, other that that they must have moved them to other frames, or totaly discarded them from the hive.. -- *************************** * Charles (Rick) Grubbs * * digital@avana.net * * Douglasville, Ga SE USA * *************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 27 May 1996 10:14:29 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Kerry Clark of AGF 784-2225 fax (604) 784 2299" Subject: Re: Moving eggs and larvae In-Reply-To: <199605271628.RAA17733@beta.aladdin.co.uk> Regarding the new appearance of a queen in an otherwise queenless/eggless colony. There's an American Bee Research Conference abstract in December (93 - 95 issue of ABJ of observations made by Tibor Szabo. Having all queens identified with numbered discs, he was able to document the movement of several queens from one hive to another, and was able to directly observe movement of a queen with a small group of bees. Queenless hives were more attractive, I think. A personal observation regarding egg movement. We were once installing packages, with the intent of replacing the queens within a few days. We therefore left the queens in their cages with corks in place. When we came to remove the queen cages, at least 2 of 30 or so queens had eggs on the cage screen. I remember seeing one that had about half a dozen eggs in the screen. Some of the eggs had been placed into cells in the comb, within about 1 cm of the cage, and were being reared (there had been no queen in the equipment prior to the package). The observation isn't absolute, since we didn't follow the larvae to be sure that they were not from laying workers on the outside of the cage, but that would be very strange behavior, while there was a queen present. Kerry Clark, Apiculture Specialist B.C. Ministry of Agriculture 1201 103 Ave Dawson Creek B.C. V1G 4J2 CANADA Tel (604) 784-2225 fax (604) 784-2299 INTERNET KCLARK@GALAXY.GOV.BC.CA ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 27 May 1996 12:52:51 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Doug Yanega Subject: Re: Carrot Pollination. >Can anyone provide some information on carrot pollination, i.e., facts and >sources of facts. I have a seed producer pay $100/hive and isn't sure >that the bees are doing the job. Referring to S.E. McGregor's 1976 "Insect pollination of cultivated crop plants" (the "Pollination Bible"; USDA-ARS Handbook 496): summarizing largely from: Bohart & Nye, 1960. Insect pollination of carrots in Utah. Utah Agr. Expt. Sta. Bull. 419 and Hawthorn, Bohart, Toole, etc. 1960. Carrot seed production as affected by insect pollination. Utah Agr. Expt. Sta. Bull. 422 he states that carrots were found to attract "334 specis of insects representing 71 families" but that of these, the most efficient pollinators were bees, and of these, only the honeybee was practical for management and manipulation for commercial purposes. Bohart & Nye's recommendations were (1) place enough colonies of honey bees to provide effective pollination (2) avoid the presence of competing bloom (3) restrict plantings of carrots for seed to avoid dilution of pollinators (4) plant in areas with a diversity of native pollinators (5) take active steps to increase native pollinator abundance - though for large commercial plantings, only (1) and (2) are expected to be practical. The recommended density of Apis is 8 bees per square yard, which is what is estimated to be required to achieve saturation. Doug Yanega Illinois Natural History Survey, 607 E. Peabody Dr. Champaign, IL 61820 USA phone (217) 244-6817, fax (217) 333-4949 affiliate, Univ. of Illinois Urbana-Champaign, Dept. of Entomology http://www.inhs.uiuc.edu:80/~dyanega/my_home.html "There are some enterprises in which a careful disorderliness is the true method" - Herman Melville, Moby Dick, Chap. 82 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 27 May 1996 10:11:38 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Paul van Westendorp of AGF 576-5600 Fax: 576-5652" Subject: Re: BEE-L Digest - 25 May 1996 to 26 May 1996 In-Reply-To: <01I56BQ85CYQ0FHBV7@saturn.gov.bc.ca> Re. Blueberry Pollination Just to add to Stan's comments about (highbush) blueberry pollination. Indeed native pollinators especially bumbles are much more effective as pollinator on a per bee basis than honeybees. Here in the Fraser Valley, blueberry is a major crop and many of the producers on the northshore (close to the mountain slopes with bush and undisturbed vegetation) derive great benefit from the wild populations of bumblebees. But, in the central and western parts of the valley, the abundance of these populations is believed much less. Also, wild populations tend to fluctuate wildly from one year to the next, something larger growers can not rely on for securing proper pollination. In recognition of the effective blueberry pollination by bumblebees, it has now been explored to use commercially reared bumbles for this purpose. I have cautioned growers not to have unrealistic expectations of using these very costly bumblebee units. (PS. Part of the enthusiasm stems from the phenomenal success of bumbles in greenhouse crop pollination). As Stan pointed out, bumblebees may be much more effective pollinators in blueberry (and cranberry) but the number of available pollinating insects in a commercial planting is an important consideration. Consider the fact that for every acre of mature highbush blueberry planting an estimated 5million flowers must be pollinated. Most plantings are over 10 acres and in some cases, several hundred acres. Commercial bumblebee nests harbor between 100 and 150 individuals of which only a portion would be actively foraging at any one time. It seems a pretty daunting task for such small number of insects to cover that many flowers effectively. Some recent field visits also revealed that the honeybee colonies were much more active under the same lousy spring conditions we have had compared to the bumblebees. This was rather surprising since it has always been reported that bumblebees remain active foragers at lower temperatures than honeybees. Please don't interpret all this as a popularity contest between honeybees versus bumblebees. It is strictly a question how these two different insect species compare in a field setting. Ultimately, the grower who pays for the pollination service must get maximum benefit from the insects he uses. As prices stand today, a grower can rent three strong honeybee pollination units for one bumblebee nest. I can not see that under the present price structure, bumblebees (or anyother non-Apis pollinator) are more cost effective than honeybees. I should point out that because of the serious impact parasitic mites have had on the honeybee population, bumblebees and other pollinating insects have become valuable, complementary pollinators to all growers. We therefore also encourage growers to preserve habitat near plantings to enhance the presence of wild bee populations. Paul van Westendorp pvanwesten@galaxy.gov.bc.ca Provincial Apiarist British Columbia ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 27 May 1996 11:04:07 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Kerry Clark of AGF 784-2225 fax (604) 784 2299" Subject: Re: Bee & alfalfa In-Reply-To: <960525170916205@beenet.com> In Canada - honey bees work alfalfa (in bloom) for nectar (producing a mild white honey) - few of these visits result in pollination (I've heard 1 in 100) - for alfalfa seed production, bees other than honey bees are necessary. Alfalfa leafcutter bees are used whenever alfalfa seed is being produced. The difference in seed yield with leafcutters is 3 to 10 fold. I've seen remarkable aerial photos of alfalfa seed fields, where petal fall on pollinated alfalfa shows up clearly. The difference in petal fall relative to the leafcutter nesting shelters is unmistakable. If flying conditions are marginal, pollination is good only around the shelters. With very good flying weather, the whole field is more evenly pollinated. The NE B.C. and NW Alberta Peace River region has no chalkbrood in the leafcutter population. I've talked to alfalfa seed producers in SW US who prefer to use honey bees for pollination, because honey bee colonies will recover after an insecticide hit, while leafcutters are affected over a longer period. The growing conditions, temperature etc are also different, and perhaps then, more than 1 % of honey bee visits results in pollination. Insecticides are not often used in alfalfa seed production in the northern region. Kerry Clark, Apiculture Specialist B.C. Ministry of Agriculture 1201 103 Ave Dawson Creek B.C. V1G 4J2 CANADA Tel (604) 784-2225 fax (604) 784-2299 INTERNET KCLARK@GALAXY.GOV.BC.CA ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 27 May 1996 14:52:01 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "my name is Dean M. Breaux" Subject: Re: Egg moving In a message dated 96-05-27 00:08:41 EDT, you write: Do honey bees move eggs? Cell to cell? >Hive to hive? Some where I recall reading that someone said he had a >colony rob an egg from a hive to raise a queen. > >I've been melting old combs in my solar melter and have noticed that the >older the comb the less wax is recovered. Newer combs provide more wax. >Can someone give me an answer as to why this is so. > > Honey Bees do not move eggs cell to cell or hive to hive. While I have heard rumors of such there is no evidence to confirm it. Virgin comb will yeild more wax than comb that has had brood raised in it. Every generation of bees raised in a comb leaves a cocoon. The more bees raised in the comb the more cocoons, the more cocoons the less wax yeild. The wax gets soaked up by the cocoons. The only way to incress your yeild is with a wax press. Dean M. Breaux Hybri-Bees "Breeding Better Bees" 11140 Fernway Lane Dade City, Florida 33525 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 27 May 1996 14:54:46 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Malcolm (Tom) Sanford, Florida Extension Apiculturist" Subject: June APIS/last issue in this format Distributed to: USR:[MTS]INTERNET.DIS;87, mts This is the last APIS to be delivered in this format. From now on, the author will only publish the full version through the APIS-L mailing/discussion list. To receive the letter on a continuous basis as published each month, send a message to: LISTSERV@NERVM.NERDC.UFL.EDU Leave the subject line blank and in the first line enter: subscribe apis-l First Name Last Name Apis is also published on the World Wide Web; see address below: FILENAME: JUNAPIS.96 Florida Extension Beekeeping Newsletter Apis--Apicultural Information and Issues (ISSN 0889-3764) Volume 14, Number 6, June 1996 Copyright (c) 1996 M.T. Sanford "All Rights Reserved" REFLECTIONS ON THE APIS NEWSLETTER This newsletter, like many things in modern day life, is continuously changing. What was once only a paper document has metamorphosed into an electronic publication (see October and December 1994, December 1995 APIS) with a larger audience than was ever possible in the past. A recent comment by a reader in Germany questioned the relevance of articles in the April 1996 number on honey bee domestication and sex determination. Although entertaining, he asked if the newsletter's function was not to report serious research from institutions of higher learning? In order to better understand this newsletter's mission, the first thing to keep in mind is that APIS is a Florida Cooperative Extension Publication. This brings with it certain conditions imposed by what many simply call "extension." In the broadest sense, extension is relaying information to people to improve their lives. Originally, extension was strictly agricultural in nature, but it has had to change as fewer and fewer people make their living directly off the land. In the rush to evolve, however, extension has had to decide what is appropriate for it to do. The wisdom of the ages tells us there are not enough resources to be all things to all people. The other key word is Florida; it should be relevant to interests of persons in the state as the local citizens help pay the bills to produce the newsletter. A recent commentary by Peter Bloome in The Leadership Journey, National Extension Leadership Development Program, Vol. 5, No. 2, Spring 1996, addresses some of the dos and don'ts as he sees them: 1. Extension should focus on helping people put knowledge to work; acquiring, freely sharing, analyzing and applying knowledge. 2. Extension should concentrate on providing services for learning; it should only do things that people can't do themselves. 3. Extension should help people understand the world in broad terms; it succeeds when people move through its programs and go on to other learning. 4. Extension should promote a balance between technical information (perishable knowledge) and learning how to learn (non-perishable skills); it must be reliable, objective and responsible. 5. Extension should help develop the private sector and not compete with it. It should also promote group development, but not be an advocate for any particular association. APIS fits the above guidelines pretty well. In keeping with the goal of extension as a change agent, the newsletter is not only adapting to changing clientele, but leading the way in providing quality information in a variety of ways. Beyond that, I have assiduously worked toward another goal, uniqueness. The articles mentioned above fall under the latter category. Nowhere else in literature directed toward beekeepers are essays on the meaning of domestication or reflections on comparisons between sex determination in humans and honey bees. I would be interested in hearing what others in the audience might think about the content, form and other characteristics of this newsletter. MORE ON FORGOTTEN POLLINATORS A continuous stream of information about one topic across the Internet is referred to as a "thread." Most recently, the subject has been lack of honey bees for pollination. One discussant asked: "Prior to the Europeans coming to the New World and bringing honey bees along, what was responsible for pollination? Were there some kind of wild bees here before the Europeans' arrival?" Dr. Douglas Yanega, Illinois Natural History Survey, answered that query: "There were and still are some 3,000 native North American bee species that got along just fine before Europeans came along, including specialist pollinators of things like blueberries, squash, sunflower, and many other native crop plants. Historically, folks have found it simpler to (in essence) assume that honeybees were the answer to everything, and work with them, even if it's a round-peg-in-square-hole sort of fit in many cases. Alfalfa is one of the few crops where honeybees were so bad at pollination that people did start long ago to utilize native pollinators instead, and recently there has been increasing use of native pollinators for blueberries and apples (and of course the use of bumblebees as greenhouse pollinators). On the whole though, funding for research into alternative pollinators has been quite scarce - perhaps now there will be more pressure to investigate how to exploit or manage native pollinators for commercial purposes, but one never knows." One way that pressure is being applied is through the Forgotten Pollinators Campaign (see March 1996 APIS). I have received the campaign's Speakers Directory which lays out the strategy to inform all parts of society about the importance of animals that pollinate. It contains a 10-point policy statement to protect pollination services. A list of distinguished speakers is available for conferences and other events. Finally, a slide set and accompanying script are available for two-week rental at $50. To contact the campaign, write Arizona-Sonora Desert Museum, 2021 N. Kinney Rd., Tucson, AZ 85743, ph 520/883- 3007, fax 520/883-5200 or email: fpollen@azstartnet.com. RESOURCES CATALOG The Spring/Summer 1996 Resources Catalog has just been issued by IFAS at the University of Florida. This eye-catching publication lists a huge array of titles separated into Home and Garden, Pesticide Training and Safety, and Farm and Industry, for sale in flash card, handbook, manual and identification guide format. CD-ROM databases (containing circulars and fact sheets on beekeeping and dozens of other topics on FAIRS) and agricultural software are also featured. Of special interest is an index to phone numbers of all Florida's extension offices and research and education centers. For a copy of the catalog, phone 352/392-1764 or write IFAS Publications, University of Florida, P.O. Box 110011, Gainesville, FL 32611-0011. UPDATED COMPUTER SPREADSHEET MODEL Although the IFAS Resources Catalog continues to list my profitability model software (Profitability Model for a Mid-sized Beekeeping Operation), this will be the last issue to do so. The information has been incorporated into an updated version by Drs. Lois Willett and Nicholas Calderone at Cornell University. Entitled Bee Economics, this model runs under Windows 3.1 on IBM compatible machines [386 machines with 4 megs of RAM using Excel(R) 4.0] and Macintosh(R) with 4 megs RAM and Excel(R) 4.0. Bee Economics consists of three modules, each containing a suite of spreadsheets. They are Bee Planner, Record Keeping (Investment, Expense, Revenue and Cashflow) and Enterprise Analysis. The latter is particularly significant because a single beekeeping operation can be broken down into several activities (i.e. honey production and sales, commercial pollination, package bee and queen production). Each of these can be analyzed independently of, as well as in conjunction with, the whole operation. Questions about the model should be directed to Dr. Willett, Dept. of Agricultural, Resource and Managerial Economics, Cornell University, Ithaca, NY 14853-7801, ph 607/255-4489, fax 607/255-9984, email lsw2@cornell.edu. Bee Economics sells for $39 plus $5 shipping and handling. Income from sales goes toward future economic research on the beekeeping industry. Copies are available from Dr. Marion Ellis, American Association of Professional Apiculturists (AAPA), 210 Plant Industry Building, Lincoln, NE 68583-0816, or the AAPA Home Page at http://ianrwww.unl.edu/ianr/entomol/beekpg/aapapubs.htm. That World Wide Web site also has several other publications available to beekeepers. Although my model has been superseded, the printed version is still available on the FAIRS CD-ROM and World Wide Web: http://hammock. ifas.ufl.edu/txt/fairs/617. GETTING RID OF BEE SWARMS A new video has been released by the College of Agriculture at the University of Arizona. That state now has Africanized honey bees which may swarm/abscond several times per year. This production informs residents in down-to-earth language about removing temporary swarms before they become established colonies. The Homeowner's Guide to Safe Honey Bee Swarm Control explains the critical differences between swarms, colonies and foraging bees. It concludes that foraging bees are not significant problems, but that established colonies must be avoided at all costs and only be removed by professionals. Swarms, on the other hand, because they are usually less defensive and more exposed, can often be killed by homeowners before they take up residence, becoming potentially defensive established colonies. The video takes the do-it-yourselfer through a step-by-step guide to killing free-standing swarms. To order this video, send a check payable to The University of Arizona to Agricultural Communications Systems, Attn: Video on Swarm Control, The University of Arizona, 715 N. Park Ave., Tucson, AZ 85719. I have a more specialized fact sheet on removing established colonies, ENY 132, Removing Honey Bee Nests. It is available by mail, on CD-ROM or World Wide Web (http://hammock.ifas.ufl.edu/txt/fairs/897). ANOTHER FLORIDIAN WINNER- 4-H ESSAY CONTEST Congratulations to Nicholas Saconchik-Pytel of Tallahassee, FL for winning third prize in this year's 4-H Essay Contest sponsored by the American Beekeeping Federation. This is the second year that state 4-H'ers have placed third. There were only eight (8) Florida entrants in 1996 so the odds remain very high of winning simply by entering. Next year's competition has been announced. The subject will be a "news event" in the bee colony. Suggested examples of titles include: "Bees Robbed of Hoard of Honey" (beekeeper harvests the honey crop); "Queen and Loyalists Flee Anarchists" (swarm leaves to set up new colony); "Helpless Drones Cast Out by Workers" (drones driven from colony in preparation for winter); "New Queen Takes the Throne" (bees replace failing or dead queen). Using a news report format, develop an essay exploring the "event" and relate it to the honey bee life cycle and the role of bees in a colony. Essays must be based on facts (referenced by endnotes), however, the tone might be sensational (tabloid), straight (evening news) or in-depth feature, including "quotes" from affected bees. For a complete copy of the rules, contact the American Beekeeping Federation, P.O. Box 1038, Jesup, GA 31598. Each state decides its own winner which will be forwarded to the Federation for final judging. Entries forwarded from 4-H agents are due in my office by February 1, 1997 to be eligible for the 1997 contest. MORE ON RISING HONEY PRICES Escalating honey prices continue to be on many people's minds. Mr. Roy Sterling, General Manager of Alberta Honey Producers Cooperative Limited recently published information from Statistics Canada on honey prices and volumes exported to the United States. The following graphically shows how precipitous the increase has been (all figures are U.S. dollars): Jul 1995 .85 million pounds; average price of 56.0 cents/pound Aug 1995 3.88 million pounds; average price of 60.4 cents/pound Sep 1995 3.01 million pounds; average price of 61.1 cents/pound Oct 1995 2.14 million pounds; average price of 66.6 cents/pound Nov 1995 1.62 million pounds; average price of 68.5 cents/pound Dec 1995 1.31 million pounds; average price of 71.8 cents/pound Jan 1996 1.07 million pounds; average price of 70.9 cents/pound Mr. Sterling is now seeing quotes of $.93 to $1.04 per pound for good white clover honey. Besides a reduction in commercial pollination and increased incentive to economically adulterate as I stated in the last issue of this newsletter (see May 1996 APIS), Mr. Sterling raises a further concern about the magnitude of this increase. "I hope the beekeeping industry doesn't price their product to a point where the consumers find alternatives for their needs." SIDEBAR-WORLD WINTER VARROA KILL World winter Varroa kill estimates taken off the Internet from Matysek Miroslav of the Czech Republic based on Apimondia discussions in Rome, May 1996: World - about 25% (13 of 50 million colonies) Austria - about 70% German - about 45 - 50%, local even 80% Slovakia - about 35 - 40% Czech republic - about 20% Sincerely, Malcolm T. Sanford Bldg 970, Box 110620 University of Florida Gainesville, FL 32611-0620 Phone (904) 392-1801, Ext. 143 FAX: 904-392-0190 BITNET Address: MTS@IFASGNV; INTERNET Address: MTS@GNV.IFAS.UFL.EDU APIS on the World Wide Web-- http://gnv.ifas.ufl.edu/~entweb/apis/apis.htm Copyright (c) M.T. Sanford 1996 "All Rights Reserved" ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 27 May 1996 09:12:36 -1000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Walter Patton Subject: BEE virus alert Aloha Bee -L readers Everytime I open my e-mail and see the virus alert messages I get excited that maybe some one is starting a thread about honeybee viruses. I must admit being a person that has been wiped out by a computer virus before that I am glad to see the proper concern about the spread of computer viruses. I am also very concerned about the introduction and subsequent spread of honeybee viruses. Does anyone have any new information about these viruses? Who is doing research on viruses and where ? Why have the viruses only now been found to be the problem on bees with mites ? Is there any hope for bees with mites if they also viruses? What is our USDA doing to try and find answers to the viruses problem. ? One leading bee research person suggests that the viruses may have been introduced by the ever popular trade and movement of live bees around the world ? Kashmir Bee Virus has been detected in sufficient amounts to have caused mortality , in extracts of dead bees from colonies in Australia, New Zealand, Fiji, and Canada ,in the absence of mites. Where is the USDA with the mission statement to protect American Agriculture ?Silent ! Why ? I have my ideas , and I would like to hear from others about this subject. I have been given the opportunity talk at the Western Apiculture Society conference to be held August 1996 in Kona , Hawaii. My assigned topic is to discuss the problems with transiting of New Zealand bees through Hawaii . My concern s are many as we in Hawaii may not have been contaminated with viruses since our state laws have prohibited the entry of bees or used bee hive equipment into Hawaii since the mid 1980's. Readers are encouraged to respond and share their fears and concerns. Hawaii is the most isolated place on earth and the bio-logical isolation should be protected. This is one of the real major issues that must be addressed if beekeeping as we have known in the past is to have a chance. Where is the US beekeeping industry at this crucial moment ? Where are our leaders ? We need everyone to come together with one strong voice to demand solutions from the USDA which seems to be unconcerned with the virus issue. New leadership is needed at the top level of honeybee research in the USDA , some one who is unbiased and objective with the primary goal of protecting and improving the plight of U.S. beekeepers . Thanks and reply with confidence that I won't reveal my sources even if tortured. Walter Patton Walter & Elisabeth Patton, 27-703 A Ka' ie'ie Rd., Papaikou HI.,96781 Ph./Fax. 808-964-5401 E-Mail hihoney@ilhawaii Beekeeper and Bed & Breakfast Owner in Hawaii http://www.alohamall.com/hamakua/hihoney.htm http://www.alohamall.com/hamakua/beeware.htm http://www.alohamall.com/hamakua/lamalani.htm ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 27 May 1996 15:37:04 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "" Subject: Candles and candlemolds Dr. Bob Berthold has antique reproductions of metal colonial style candlemolds for sale along with 10 1/2 and 5 1/2 inch tapered candles in natural, red and green beeswax. Aso available are figure candles and molds of industrial strength polyurethane at reasonable prices. Write to him at 230 Sandy Ridge Rd., Doylestown, PA. 18901 or e-mail at : Dr Berthold @aol.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 27 May 1996 17:16:54 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: John A Skinner Subject: Re: BLUEBERRY POLLINATION ??'S In-Reply-To: <199605260532.CAA28022@bud.peinet.pe.ca> Tom and Stan, There are three types of blueberry; high bush, low bush and rabbiteye which I am familiar with in the South. Highbush, I have been informed from a producer in one of the New England states, has a corolla-petal tube that is large enough for a honey bee to enter. Lowbush, I am not familiar with. Rabbiteye require a Buzz from the flight muscles of a bumble bee or Southern blueberry bee, as the bee hangs inverted on the flower, while probing for nectar. The vibration releases pollen from pores in the anthers. The action can be duplicated by using a tuning fork held against the petals. Using a piece of black velvet or other dark background will allow you to see the small whittish pollen grains falling from the bell-like flower. Nectar is produced at the base of the "bell". The tongue length of a honey bee is usually (variety differences) too short to reach the nectar. A naive bee will try to force it's way into the tube and in this effort is believed to pollinate. Even if it cannot buzz, the honey bee can move pollen released by a previous "buzzer". Stan's comments about waiting until a good part of the blueberries are in bloom may take advantage of naive honey bees. Until they "learn" they cannot reach the nectar, they will visit. Other sources easier to obtain food from should draw them away quicker. In tn, I often see perforation holes made by carpenter bees. This short-tongued bee perforates the base of the flower to get nectar. Honey bees will often be observed using the perforation hole made by carpenter bees to get nectar. Tom, in your area, bumble bees may be available? Your honey bees should also help in total number of foragers, especially naive ones. Grins, John John A. Skinner 218 Ellington Hall Extension Apiculturist University of Tennessee jskinner@utk.edu Knoxville, TN 37901 On Sun, 26 May 1996, Stan Sandler wrote: > >I HAVE MANY BLUEBERRY BUSHES AND THREE HIIVES OF BEES. RARELY DO I SEE BEES > >ON THE BLUEBERRY BLOSSOMS, USUALLY THERE ARE GOOD CROPS OF BERRIES. WHAT TIME > >OF DAY DOES MOST OF THE POLLINATION TAKE PLACE? WHAT FORM OF POLLINATION > >TAKES PLACE? ARE THERE OTHER INSECTS WORKING AT THE SAME TIME CREATING A LIKE > >EFFECT? > > Honeybees are certainly much much worse than several native pollinators > (such as bumblebees, leafcutter bees, and the blueberry bee) at working > blueberries, on a PER BEE basis. However when you put good strong hives in > the fields you can introduce a massive population and they will have a very > good effect. I have many satisfied customers. HOWEVER, YOU HAVE TO MANAGE > THEM PROPERLY TO FORCE THEM TO WORK THE BLUEBERRIES. Your three hives, Tom, > are probably in the same location all year. By the time the blueberries are > flowering those hives are working far more attractive bloom to honeybees, > such as (in my area), dandelions, apple, wild pear, lilacs,... But if you > were to move hives into fields full of blueberry when one third of the > blossoms had opened, and not before, you would find that on the first day in > the new location those bees would come out and see blueberries and start > working them. Once they start they will tend to continue working them for a > week or so until scouts have found some other really attractive blossoms. > > Many blueberry growers get reasonable yields using only the pollinators > already in the area. However it is my impression that pesticides are > lowering the population of native pollinators quite dramaticly, and the > blueberry growers themselves are one of the culprits in this. > > Regarding time and form of pollination: > The time could be any time that insects are moving. The blueberries are not > wind pollinated, they must be visited by an insect to be fertilized. The > honeybees rarely if ever gather pollen from blueberries, but they fertilize > them incidentally in their gathering of nectar, (as was intended when nectar > evolved). The bumblebees can "buzz" out large amounts of pollen from the > blossoms using wing vibration. The honeybees can help in spreading these > large packets around. > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 27 May 1996 17:33:03 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jerry J Bromenshenk Subject: Re: Bee & alfalfa In-Reply-To: from "Kerry Clark of AGF 784-2225 fax" at May 27, 96 11:04:07 am Hi, always good to hear from Kerry. The honey bee/alfalfa leafcutter bee debate continues to be waged. Researchers and beekeepers both have strong views about the efficacy of honey bees on alfalfa. Kerry mentions differences in climate, I suspect this and other factors are important. I would not be doing bee research today if it had not been for honey bees and alfalfa pollination. The story may be educational - it certainly raises some questions about the reliability of reports that say bees dodge the trip mechanism and as such rob nectar with little contribution to pollination. Anyway, here goes: In 1973, I got a chance to look at the environmental impacts of a large-scale development of coal-fired power in eastern Montana. Eastern Montana is a semi-arid region, with rolling hills, on the edge of historic short-grass prairies. Long finger-shaped valleys follow creeks, that flow heavily in the spring and often dry up before the end of summer. The hills are grazed or planted to wheat. The rocky, heavy clay soils along the streams in the valley bottoms are planted to alfalfa. Apiaries of 50-100 colonies are sited about every 2-3 miles just off the gravel roads that parallel the creeks. The alfalfa fields sub-irrigate because of the high water table in early summer. The second cutting of alfalfa is left to go to seed. The alfalfa grows sparsely, but provides good seed. The bees are always placed on the edge to the field, usually on a small rise, on the opposite side of the field from the water source. In most cases, the apiaries sit between rangelands and alfalfa fields. The rangeland vegetation keeps the bees going between alfalfa blooms. These colonies either remain on site all year, or are moved in from California in May and taken back out in September. The only time that they are moved during the summer is to avoid a pesticide spray. In 1973, much of southeastern Montana was sprayed to control grasshoppers - in July and August! It was a very dry summer. I meet a beekeeper near Broadus, Montana who had just lost 1/3-1/2 of his 1200 colony operation to spray. . When I introduced myself and said we were starting a long-term study of the effects of coal burning on the rangeland and agricultural systems of eastern Montana, he told me he had little interest in such matters, His only concern was keeping from going bankrupt. Because I had just finished a five year thesis on rangeland grasshoppers, I wanted to know why anyone would waste time and money spraying them at the time of year when the populations would soon crash naturally. He said that the grasshoppers were eating the seed. I challenged that assumption, because the grasshopper species that were so evident in his fields were specialists - they only ate grasses, not alafalfa. He countered that the grasshoppers moved up on the alfalfa every night to feed. I commented that they were moving up to follow the warmth and to be positioned to catch the sun in the morning, not to eat. Well, that conversation didn't go very far, and I left without getting his cooperation in the proposed coal impact study. A couple of weeks later, my research associate and I were heading back to our field camp. We had travelled almost 200 miles that day, had worked a very long day, and found ourselves in Broadus, late in the evening, with another three hours ahead of us to get home. Broadus has two small hotels, both were filled. Because we often camped out, we needed a place to stay, but there weren't any campgrounds in that remote area - and if we just pulled into someone's field, we were likely to get shot or run in for cattle rustling. We needed to find a place to set up camp, and we didn't feel like knocking on the doors of strangers just before dark. I decided that the beekeeper had at least met us and maybe he would let us park in the far corner of his yard - at least he was less likely to run us off at gun point. (Remember, Montanan's are known for our independent spirit - where else do you find FreeMen, Militia, and the Unabomber more or less left alone?) We were in for a real surprise, The beekeeper greeted us like long lost family. He was eager to talk, had a late dinner made up, and let us camp in his warehouse. Why the change of attitude? Well, after we left a couple of weeks earlier, he went out with a flashlight to check the hoppers in his fields. Turns out they were just hanging on the tops of the stems - more or less comatose (it gets cold at night in eastern Montana). What I didn't know is that he, his brother, and his father also grew alfalfa seed. They were considering spraying! Why, because everyone else was spraying. When he found the the grasshoppers were not eating his seed, he saw two opportunities: 1) He wasn't going to spray and told his brother and father not to spray. 2) He rounded up 600-700 colonies of bees (the remainders of his operation) and placed them on these fields. Did he get seed? You bet - biggest crop ever! Filled his 55 gallon honey barrels with seed and just about recouped his honey losses. His neighbors got very little seed - nothing left to pollinate after repeated sprayings (some of them sprayed three times). Ok, this is an extreme situation. But the honey bees did the trick. Probably had so many bees that they had to fight for blossoms. He also made honey, enough to sell and to get his bees through the winter. He contends (and I don't have any data to support or to dispute this) that his bees had been selected to work alfalfa. His bees (and queens) had been kept in that same area for over 3 decades. He grafted his own queens from his own stock, always picking bees that did well on alfalfa. I can say that I have trapped lots of alfalfa pollen from bees throughout Montana. Like southern California, our beekeepers work this crop for honey and many growers depend on honey bee for pollination. Are they as good as alfalfa leaf-cutters? I can say that they are less susceptible to some pesticides - we have watched leaf-cutters dying from helicopter sprays of fields in eastern Washington, with little impact to adjacent honey bee colonies. My guess, all things being equal, leaf-cutter bees probably have the edge. But, honey bees can get the job done. It may take more honey bees per acre (a guess). Climate may be a factor, as Kerry suggests. And maybe, just maybe, different lines of honey bee vary in their ability or willingness to collect pollen from alfalfa. So, how does these long-winded narrative lead into my 20+ years of bee research? Well, after getting a bumper crop of seed and saving his bees from any additional exposure to pesticides, the beekeeper not only agreed to participate in our studies - but he taught me just about everything that I know about working with bees. After all, I had been trained as an entomologist at a University that did not have an apiary. Cheers Jerry Bromenshenk The University of Montana-Missoula jjbmail@selway.umt.edu http://grizzly,umt.edu/biology/bees ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 27 May 1996 23:10:00 GMT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Andy Nachbaur Organization: WILD BEE'S BBS (209) 826-8107 LOS BANOS, CA Subject: Re: Re; Virus Alert"Ken Umbach wrote DE>From: David Eyre >Date: Mon, 27 May 1996 09:07:53 -0400 >Subject: Re: Re; Virus Alert DE> "Ken Umbach wrote >>like a perfectly ordinary text files! It could be the weird coincidence >>that a string in the text just happens to match the signature of some >>virus program known to the Norton virus checker. But text files are not >>executed, so there should be no possible danger! If I am missing DE>Hi Ken, > In future I will keep my mouth shut. I put that post as a helpful >hint,not virus paranoia, and all I got back was abuse, your's was the only >rational comment. Hi All, All the so called virus detecting programs give off "false" alarms, sometimes I think it is just to keep us awake. Here is a partial list from one of the more popular virus programs that sets off its alarm on my network if not added to a skip list in the program. Some of these programs are quite common on most any network or bbs and really do not contain virus but code that is interpolated as a virus and they should be checked with care when detected by another program. I use two on my own system and they are updated each month. The files that are attached to messages are also checked. None of the common virus detectors charge a fee for personal use and they must be updated to keep up with each generation of bored students who like to hack programs. McAfee's Virus Scan, and F-Prot are the most popular and can be downloaded from most any bbs. Thunderbyte is also OK, but it will give you a lot of false alarms as it uses a different approach to checking for virus that is not considered standard by anyone but the author. Norton's I don't use if that cut's any ice, but I do use other Norton programs.. ttul Andy- system administrator Wild Bee's BBs and Beekeeping Information System Thunderbyte Utilities. ; Files that trigger the heuristic alarm of CMD.COM * * 0001 ;MCA utility CMSDRV.COM 013C1 * 0001 ;Sound Blaster utility CONFMT.COM * * 0001 ;Format utility CONTINUM.COM * * 0001 ;Video utility COPYPC.COM * * 0001 COPYQM.COM 067FE BB71FA7D 0001 ;Disk copy utility COPYWRIT.COM * * 0001 CVS.EXE * * 0001 DDINSTAL.EXE 0BFC4 8EBC86C2 0001 DMP.COM * * 0011 ;Print spooler DMPC.EXE 00AEE 4BBEDA5A 0001 DOSAGENT.EXE * * 0001 DSZ2ICOM.EXE 098B0 A09C1F4D 0001 ;DSZ logfile utility DUMPSCR2.COM 002B5 D12C87F1 0001 EGRAPHIC.EXE 03E09 001F613D 0001 ;Utility EXE2COM.EXE 00BEA 4927CF1E 0001 ;Exe to Com conversion utility F-TEST.COM * * 0001 ;Frisk anti-virus module FAKE.EXE 0048F BD4ED16F 0001 ;A86 utility FENESTRA.EXE 2FD00 4BDE6869 0001 ;Videotext emulator FFIX.EXE 006DC AC60E24D 0001 FIX720.COM * * 0001 FLAGFIX.COM 0006D 37C4CD3B 0011 ;FlagFix utility GIF2EPSN.COM 05080 * 0001 GRABBER.COM 05CD5 6DC5C815 0001 ;Screen capture utility HDFMTALL.COM * * 0001 ;Disk format utility HILOAD.COM * * 0001 ;DR DOS TSR loader #IBMAVSH.COM 03536 C9A78F41 0001 ;IBM anti-virus IBMAVSH.COM 036AD 57B05B0D 0001 ;IBM anti-virus ICE.COM 00562 AC1E3517 0001 ;File encryptor INOCINT.COM 00204 5EC0B38D 0001 ISOUND.EXE 00B12 E4993F51 0001 LOG.COM 0070F FFEF624E 0001 ;Ziff utility ML.EXE * * 0001 ;MS macro assembler 6.00 MONITOR.COM 01798 F501424B 0001 MOVE.COM 00730 22DAA6CC 0001 ;Utility MSCDEX.EXE * * 0011 ;CD-ROM driver NDOS.COM * * 0001 ;NDOS NNANSI.COM 014DC 9BF50F93 0011 ;Ansi driver OAS164.EXE * * 0001 PB.COM * * 000B ;PlayBack menu PC3270.COM 08F00 F9EEE6BC 0001 POVMOD.EXE 18263 2CFA97A8 0001 ;Persistence of Vision 1.0 PS081010.EXE * * 0001 PS241010.EXE * * 0001 QIT.EXE * * 0001 README.COM * * 0001 ;Soundblaster Pro utility RECORDER.COM 0051D 02A2E3B6 0001 ;Utility REGEDIT.EXE * * 0001 ;Windows 3.1 RGNC.EXE * * 0001 ;BBS utility SCROFF.COM 000C9 E2CD35DB 0001 ;utility SDUMP.COM 00280 * 0001 ;Utility SERVER.EXE * * 001B ;Novell server SKPLUS.EXE * * 0011 ;Side Kick plus SNATCHIT.COM 02BAE CA62C2C3 0001 ;Encrypted utility SNIPPER.COM * * 0011 ;PC Magazine utility SPINRITE.COM * * 0001 ;Hard disk utility SSWAP.COM 04000 972848E4 0001 ;Stacker utility TCP2PDIS.EXE * * 0001 TINYPROG.EXE * * 0001 ;Executable file compressor TOAGX.COM 0B932 3B9FA438 0001 ;Harvard utility TRAK.EXE 02ED0 016ED5DC 0001 UNJUNE4.EXE 02A55 2420E45E 0001 ;4june remover VALIDATE.COM 0195F 6466439F 0001 ;McAfee checker VAPINUL.COM * * 0001 ;WP 6.0 file VAPISG.COM * * 0001 ;Galaxy VAXDIR.EXE * * 0001 VAXLINK2.EXE * * 0001 VGACOPY.EXE * * 0001 ;Disk copy utility VIRSTOP.EXE * * 0011 ;Frisk anti-virus module VMAP.COM * * 0011 VTOUCH.COM 00170 3180AF12 0001 WATCH.COM * * 0011 ;TSR monitoring utility WIN.COM * * 0001 ;Windows 3.0 WINOS2.COM 00B20 824F7C77 0001 WINWORD.EXE * * 0001 ;Windows word X00.EXE * * 0011 ;Fossil driver XTREE.COM * * 000B ;Utility NETBIOS.EXE * * 001B ;Novell netware NET3.COM * * 0011 NET4.COM * * 0011 NET5.COM * * 0011 NETX.COM * * 0011 NETX.EXE * * 0011 EMSNETX.COM * * 0011 EMSNETX.EXE * * 0011 XMSNETX.COM * * 0011 XMSNETX.EXE * * 0011 EMENU.COM * * 0001 EXACT.COM * * 0001 EXEFREMD.COM 06200 * 0001 ;Geva utility FRMCONT.COM 08400 * 0001 ;Geva utility TRANSMIT.COM 0C600 * 0001 ;Geva utility TRANSNEU.COM 09A00 * 0001 ;Geva utility RECVE.COM 08A00 * 0001 ;Geva utility INHNEU.COM 06E00 * 0001 ;Geva utility INTER11.COM 06200 * 0001 ;Geva utility TSETREG7.COM * * 0001 AUTODIAL.COM * * 0001 TIMEGEN.COM * * 0001 TGSUMM.COM * * 0001 AUTOPFL.COM * * 0001 ;Freelance Graphics utility FL.COM * * 0001 ;Freelance Graphics utility SIZER.EXE * * 0001 ;DOS 6.0 utility IBMBIO.COM 05F9A 9CCE2030 0001 ;DR DOS 6.00 system file COMMAND.COM 0C508 103850F4 0001 ;DR DOS 6.00 command processor COMMAND.COM 0C518 5390AA5E 0001 ;DR DOS 6.00 command processor LS-LOAD.COM 00B48 B9302393 0001 ;DESQview utility LT-LOAD.COM 00BDE 0F435505 0001 ;DESQview utility PX-LOAD.COM 0037F 84ECF84E 0001 ;DESQview utility RAMBOOST.EXE * * 0011 ;PcTools utility PCFORM.EXE * * 0001 ;PcTools utility ITLFAX.EXE * * 0001 ;PcTools utility AAPIATI.COM 0121B 6D983DBF 0001 ;ATI utility VAPIATI.COM 028AF C216963D 0001 ;ATI utility PANIC.EXE * * 0001 ;Sound file POINT.EXE * * 0001 ;Sound file JUKEBOX.EXE * * 0001 ;Sound file ADLIBDRV.COM * * 0001 ;Sound file CPCHED.EXE * * 0001 ;Central Point schedular NET$DOS.SYS * * 0004 ;Disk image of Novell remote boot disk CONFIG.SYS * * 0002 ;This is not a device driver MENU.COM 03328 * 000A ;PlayBack menu Q.EXE * * 000A ;Qedit (all versions) TBCONFIG.COM * * 000A ;all versions PCBOARD.SYS * * 000A ;PCBoard 14.5a utility REMOTE.SYS * * 000A ;PCBoard 14.5a utility EVENT.SYS * * 000A ;PCBoard 14.5a utility DOOR.SYS * * 000A ;BBS door drop file IO.SYS * * 0008 ;DOS system file MSDOS.SYS * * 0008 ;DOS system file TBSETUP.EXE * * 0040 ;TbSetup utility APPEND.EXE * * 0010 ;MS-DOS utility ASSIGN.COM * * 0010 ;MS-DOS utility DOSKEY.COM * * 0010 ;MS-DOS utility FASTOPEN.EXE * * 0010 ;MS-DOS utility KEYB.COM * * 0010 ;MS-DOS utility MIRROR.COM * * 0010 ;MS-DOS utility MODE.COM * * 0010 ;MS-DOS utility PRINT.EXE * * 0010 ;MS-DOS utility SHARE.EXE * * 0011 ;MS-DOS utility SMARTDRV.EXE * * 0010 ;Disk cache FDREAD.EXE * * 0010 ;Resident disk convertor AE2.EXE * * 0010 ;Lantastic AILANBIO.EXE * * 0010 ;Lantastic LANCACHE.EXE * * 0030 ;Lantastic LANPUP.EXE * * 0010 ;Lantastic REDIR.EXE * * 0011 ;Lantastic SERVER.EXE * * 0030 ;Lantastic TNE-WS.EXE * * 0010 ;Lantastic TNE LSL.COM * * 0010 ;Network driver 3C509.COM * * 0010 ;Network driver ODINSUP.COM * * 0010 ;Network utility IPXODI.COM * * 0010 ;Network utility PCSXI.EXE * * 0010 ;Terminal emulation utility RMVPCS.EXE * * 0010 ;Terminal emulation utility STARTRTR.EXE * * 0010 ;Terminal emulation utility WSF.EXE * * 0010 ;Terminal emulation utility STACKMAN.EXE * * 0010 ;Stack Manager TBDRIVER.EXE * * 0010 ;TBAV driver TBSCANX.EXE * * 0010 ;TbScanX TBCHECK.EXE * * 0010 ;TbCheck TBMEM.EXE * * 0010 ;TbMem TBDISK.EXE * * 0010 ;TbDisk TBFILE.EXE * * 0010 ;TbFile TBGARBLE.EXE * * 0010 ;TbGarble TBDRIVE0.EXE * * 0010 ;TBAV driver (8088) TBSCANX0.EXE * * 0010 ;TbScanX (8088) TBCHECK0.EXE * * 0010 ;TbCheck (8088) TBMEM0.EXE * * 0010 ;TbMem (8088) TBDISK0.EXE * * 0010 ;TbDisk (8088) TBFILE0.EXE * * 0010 ;TbFile (8088) TBDRIVE1.EXE * * 0010 ;TBAV driver (80186) TBSCANX1.EXE * * 0010 ;TbScanX (80186) TBCHECK1.EXE * * 0010 ;TbCheck (80186) TBMEM1.EXE * * 0010 ;TbMem (80186) TBDISK1.EXE * * 0010 ;TbDisk (80186) TBFILE1.EXE * * 0010 ;TbFile (80186) TBDRIVE2.EXE * * 0010 ;TBAV driver (80286) TBSCANX2.EXE * * 0010 ;TbScanX (80286) TBCHECK2.EXE * * 0010 ;TbCheck (80286) TBMEM2.EXE * * 0010 ;TbMem (80286) TBDISK2.EXE * * 0010 ;TbDisk (80286) TBFILE2.EXE * * 0010 ;TbFile (80286) TBDRIVE3.EXE * * 0010 ;TBAV driver (80386) TBSCANX3.EXE * * 0010 ;TbScanX (80386) TBCHECK3.EXE * * 0010 ;TbCheck (80386) TBMEM3.EXE * * 0010 ;TbMem (80386) TBDISK3.EXE * * 0010 ;TbDisk (80386) TBFILE3.EXE * * 0010 ;TbFile (80386) TBFENCE.EXE * * 0021 ;TbFence MOUSE.COM * * 0010 ;Every mouse driver is a TSR MOUSE.EXE * * 0010 ;Every mouse driver is a TSR GMOUSE.COM * * 0010 ;Genius mouse driver LMOUSE.COM * * 0010 ;Logitech mouse driver IPX.COM * * 0010 ;Novell network protocol F_RTL.EXE * * 0010 ;Postbank utility F_DISP.EXE * * 0010 ;Postbank utility F_APPL.EXE * * 0010 ;Postbank utility F_COMM.EXE * * 0010 ;Postbank utility CL.EXE * * 0010 ;WP-Office utility NOTIFY.EXE * * 0010 BITSCHED.EXE * * 0010 ;Bit fax utility DPMILOAD.EXE * * 0010 3C5X9.COM * * 0010 ;3com driver KEYSTACK.COM * * 0010 ;4Dos utility NABIOS.EXE * * 0010 ;PC-Support utility EC400RTR.EXE * * 0010 ;PC-Support utility RMVPCS.EXE * * 0010 ;PC-Support utility FCRREQ2.COM * * 0010 ;PC-Support utility FLRMCAC2.COM * * 0010 ;PC-Support utility PCSCOPY.EXE * * 0010 ;IBM PC3270 Emulator PCSDFT.EXE * * 0010 ;IBM PC3270 Emulator PCSDOS.EXE * * 0010 ;IBM PC3270 Emulator PCSLDTBL.EXE * * 0010 ;IBM PC3270 Emulator PCSPDOS.EXE * * 0010 ;IBM PC3270 Emulator PCSSDFT.EXE * * 0010 ;IBM PC3270 Emulator PCSSNA.EXE * * 0010 ;IBM PC3270 Emulator PCSTLOAD.EXE * * 0010 ;IBM PC3270 Emulator PCSSPRT.EXE * * 0010 ;IBM PC3270 Emulator PCSUTIL.EXE * * 0010 ;IBM PC3270 Emulator TQDOS.EXE * * 0010 ;IBM PC3270 Emulator FORMAT.COM * * 0020 ;This program formats disks. DEFRAG.EXE * * 0020 ;DOS 6.0 defragmentation utility. CALIBRAT.EXE * * 0020 ;Norton utility SD.EXE * * 0020 ;Norton utility NDD.EXE * * 0020 ;Norton utility DUPDISK.EXE * * 0020 ;Norton utility EXEMOD.EXE * * 0040 EXEHDR.EXE * * 0040 TERMINAT.EXE * * 0040 NET3.COM * * 8000 ;Novell LAN NET4.COM * * 8000 ;Novell LAN NET5.COM * * 8000 ;Novell LAN NETX.COM * * 8000 ;Novell LAN NETX.EXE * * 8000 ;Novell LAN EMSNETX.COM * * 8000 ;Novell LAN EMSNETX.EXE * * 8000 ;Novell LAN XMSNETX.COM * * 8000 ;Novell LAN XMSNETX.EXE * * 8000 ;Novell LAN ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 27 May 1996 23:00:18 +0100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Gunnar Thygesen Organization: Micro Computer User Group Subject: Melting old comb A> From: Ann Dougherty Subject: Egg A> moving A> I've been melting old combs in my solar melter and have noticed A> that the older the comb the less wax is recovered. Newer combs A> provide more wax. Can someone give me an answer as to why this is A> so. A> Thanks, A> Ann Quotes from BEEWAX Second Edition by Ron Brown: Page 27 and on. It is important to appreciate the limitations of a solar extractor, which is very good indeed on odd combs and wax scraps, and excellent on dried cappings obtained when extracting. On the other hand it will not get any worthwhile amount of wax out of old, black combs. This is because the wax, on melting, is soaked up by the layer of old cocoons and pupa cases embedded in each cell. ...... A great deal of weight of these old brood combs is not wax at all, but layers of old pupa cases with debris at the base of each, plus propolis. W.F. Reid (1924) quoted actual wax content of some very old black brood combs as only 10% by weight, and some not quite so old as 15%..... Silk, whether from actual silk-worms or from cocoon spun by bee larvae, has great affinity for wax, and once wax has soaked into the silk cocoons no amount of boiling water or pressing will get it all out again. On the other hand, if the cocoons are first soaked with water, they will not then absorb the wax. The book with lot of valuable information is issued by BEE BOOKS NEW & OLD, Tapping Wall Farm, Burrowbridge, Somerset, UK. Kind regards Gunnar Thygesen -- | Internet: gunnar@mcug.ping.dk (Fidonet: Gunnar Thygesen 2:235/15.32) | Micro Computer User Group (MCUG) ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 28 May 1996 01:18:01 -0300 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Stan Sandler Subject: Re: BLUEBERRY POLLINATION ??'S >Tom and Stan, There are three types of blueberry; high bush, low bush >and rabbiteye which I am familiar with in the South. >Highbush, I have been informed from a producer in one of the New England states, has a >corolla-petal tube that is large enough for a honey bee to enter. >Lowbush, I am not familiar with. My apologies, I should have specified the type of blueberry. My comments were dealing with lowbush blueberries, although in light of Paul van Westendorp's comments, much the same is try of highbush, as you also mention. Honeybees definitely forage successfully for nectar in lowbush blueberry. It is not a commonly extracted honey as the hives are still very much in buildup, but occasionally I have taken some to try, and I like the flavour. Regards, Stan ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 28 May 1996 02:49:00 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "(Kevin & Shawna Roberts)" Subject: Re: Carrot Pollination. As Doug Yanega pointed out, you need to have enough bees per acre to do the job, and get rid of any competing bloom (If you can. If you can't, increase the hive count to compensate). We tend to put in 3-4 hives per acre, but we have put in as many as 10 hives per acre for some growers. If the bees are pollinating a hybrid carrot, one of the issues is the flower itself. Apparently, some of the carrot hybrids are not recognized as carrots by the bees. The flowers just smell too different, or look too different, or something. So when you have a field, or a cage, of two varieties of carrots that you want to cross-pollinate, the bees only work one variety or the other. My husband went to a Western Apicultural Society seminar at which Eric H. Erickson of the U.S. Dept. of Agriculture discussed pollination in general and carrot pollination in particular. I have seen five of his articles on pollination; four of them are specifically about hybrid carrots, and the fifth is about hybrid seed production in general. Here is the abstract from an article he wrote (with C.E. Peterson and Patricia Werner) titled "Honey Bee Foraging and Resultant Seed Set among Male-fertile and Cytoplasmically Male-sterile Carrot Inbreds and Hybrid Seed Parents" for the _Journal of the American Society for Horticultural Science_, September 1979: "A study of foraging by honey bees among cytoplasmically male-sterile and male-fertile seed parents of carrot revealed that honey bee discrimination between the fidelity to carrot phenotype and genotype were evident and often extreme. Some lines were extensively visited while others were virtually ignored. Wide differences in seed set were evident among male-sterile F1's and inbreds and male-fertile lines. Differences in seed yield were correlated with foraging preferences, but the quality of nectar from the stomachs of bees was not." I don't know if Eric Erickson has an e-mail address and I don't know his phone number, but you can reach him at: U.S. Dept. of Agriculture, Agricultural Research Service, Honey Bee Research Unit, 2000 E. Allen Rd., Tucson, Arizona 85719-1596. Unfortunately, the honey bee research unit may be closing at the end of September due to government budget cuts (Call Your Congressman!), so this address may not be valid for long. I don't know if unattractive hybrid carrots are the problem, but if the bees aren't working the carrots (and there are otherwise enough bees), you can mention it as a possibility to your grower. If you want the titles, etc. of the other articles, e-mail me, and I can send you a list. Good luck! Shawna Roberts Gypsy Bees Hollister, CA ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 28 May 1996 02:49:15 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "(Kevin & Shawna Roberts)" Subject: Re: Bee & alfalfa Regarding climate: Apparently, alfalfa flowers are harder to trip in humid weather. Where the summers are humid, the leaf cutter bees are practically a necessity to get a good seed set. (Leaf cutters are too dumb to figure out how to avoid getting bonked by the alfalfa flower... they always trip the flower, unlike our lovable intelligent friends, the honey bees.) Where the weather is dry, the trip mechanism on the alfalfa flower is much more sensitive, so honey bees are not as successful at avoiding getting bonked. Where the summers are dry (like California and Arizona), honey bees are generally preferred. The leaf cutter bees would still set more seed per bee than the honey bees, but the honey bees are much easier to manage, hence more economical. Shawna ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 28 May 1996 10:10:48 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Diana Sammataro Subject: Re: BEE-L Digest - 25 May 1996 to 26 May 1996 > Re. Blueberry Pollination impact parasitic mites have had on the honeybee population, bumblebees and other pollinating > insects have become valuable, > Paul van Westendorp pvanwesten@galaxy.gov.bc.ca Just a comment and reminder about Bumble Bee. They have their own tracheal mite, Locustacaris spp. High concentrations of bumble bees and artificial rearing of the queen could aggrevate these mites as well. Diana Sammataro, Ph.D. The Ohio State University, OARDC/ Dept. Entomology Extension Bee Laboratory, 1680 Madison Avenue Wooster, OH 44691 NEW Phone: (330) 263 3912 Fax: (330) 262 2720 Email: Sammataro.1@osu.edu ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 23 May 1996 19:28:37 +0100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Gordon Scott Subject: Re: Used Equipment query In-Reply-To: On Thu, 23 May 1996, Ted Fischer wrote: > Stuart Grant writes: > > Today I purchased some equiptment from a couple who'd kept bees for a few > > years but whose charges died over the winter. They said the bottom of the > > hive was full of dead bees so I assume that the dreaded mite was the > > problem. > The used equipment, even full of dead bees, will not contain living varroa > mites that could get into your other bees. ... However, the bees could also have died from other causes. Hygiene practices are always worthwhile, IMHO. In these cases, I Personally always scorch the boxes and stuff, and replace the frames and foundation. But then EFB and AFB are notifiable here in the UK and can result in mandadtory destruction of the colonies. Regards, -- Gordon Scott gordon@apis.demon.co.uk gordon@multitone.co.uk (work) The Basingstoke Beekeeper (newsletter) beekeeper@apis.demon.co.uk Embryo Home Page Beekeeper; Kendo 3rd Dan; Sometime sailor. Hampshire, England. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 24 May 1996 16:02:01 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Stephen.Reddick" Subject: Looking to Buy Queen Does anyone have Queens for sale yet, in the Ontario Canada area? I am looking to buy one. If so could you please contact me at sunrise@barint.on.ca S.Reddick ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 28 May 1996 13:33:38 CST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Vladimir Ptacek Subject: Re: Moving eggs and larvae About 20 years ago my father in law and me were bussy with colonies during quite a heavy honey flow from Robinia pseudoacacia. Colonies were of maximum strenght having all available frames of propper quality didtributed in hives. Than my father took even the rest of the combs which were dark, old and intended for melting, and put supers with them on tops of some colonies to allow them to store more honey. The combs were at least one season out of hives. When checking colonies after a week or so he found four queen cells on one of those combs. There was a gueen excluder on the brood nest and no other brood cells in about three honey supers bellow the top super. We guessed then, bees had to move eggs from the brood nest to raise queens in this part of hive far from the source of the queen substance ... And the other edification from the story: My father had an average of 13 kg per hive more in comparison to me just as a result of giving bees more space to store nectar. Best regards, Vladimir Ptacek ---------------------------------------------------------------- Fac. Sci., Dept. Anim. Physiol. E.mail: ptacek@sci.muni.cz Masaryk University phone: .42/5/41129 562 611 37 Brno, Czech Republic fax: .42/5/41211 214 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 28 May 1996 18:04:23 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ron Harriger Subject: What is it a wasp? Hi Folks, I found an interesting but ominous looking insect around some empty frames the other day. I saw the same insects last year in a hive that died of mites. It is rather large, burgundy with yellow stripes over the abdomen. It makes the bald faced hornet look wimpy. I would not want to be stung by this wasp(?). Does anyone have the correct species name and common name. Thanks Ron H. Cambridge Springs Pa. USA ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 28 May 1996 23:03:18 +0100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Gordon Scott Subject: Re: swarm prevention for the hobbiest? In-Reply-To: <31A4BFBD.6540@mail.bconnex.net> On Thu, 23 May 1996, Robin Wells wrote: > Franklin D. Humphrey Sr. wrote: > > > > I know of a hobbyist who winters 10 colonies and only 10 colonies each year. > > He winters in double brood chambers and splits each spring using queen cells > > or commercial queens as conditions require. He then recombines in the fall > > keeping the younger queen. ... > However one coloney split in to two will not produce as much > honey combined that same year as the one coloney would if > retained as one. In the south east of the UK, you'd say goodbye to at least half your crop, as these days, much comes from oilseed rape which flowers very early. Regards, -- Gordon Scott gordon@apis.demon.co.uk gordon@multitone.co.uk (work) The Basingstoke Beekeeper (newsletter) beekeeper@apis.demon.co.uk Embryo Home Page Beekeeper; Kendo 3rd Dan; Sometime sailor. Hampshire, England. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 28 May 1996 17:22:24 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Doug Yanega Subject: Re: What is it a wasp? >Hi Folks, > > I found an interesting but ominous looking insect around some empty >frames the other day. I saw the same insects last year in a hive that died >of mites. It is rather large, burgundy with yellow stripes over the >abdomen. It makes the bald faced hornet look wimpy. I would not want to >be stung by this wasp(?). Does anyone have the correct species name and >common name. Thanks Ron H. > Cambridge Springs Pa. > USA Sounds like _Vespa crabro_, the European Hornet. Not necessarily a good thing to have around one's hives. Doug Yanega Illinois Natural History Survey, 607 E. Peabody Dr. Champaign, IL 61820 USA phone (217) 244-6817, fax (217) 333-4949 affiliate, Univ. of Illinois Urbana-Champaign, Dept. of Entomology http://www.inhs.uiuc.edu:80/~dyanega/my_home.html "There are some enterprises in which a careful disorderliness is the true method" - Herman Melville, Moby Dick, Chap. 82 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 28 May 1996 22:57:47 +0100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Gordon Scott Subject: Re: Comments & suggestions appreciated In-Reply-To: <199605250446.OAA10681@eastend.com.au> On Sat, 25 May 1996, David. E. Goble wrote: > >On Sat, 18 May 1996, David. E. Goble wrote: > > > >> Looking at your hive every six days is creating the situation > >> for your bees to swarm, at the start of spring your whole hive > >> should be inspected for swarming cells and the state of your > >> > As your situation goes, there is no difference what type of > brood box or hive equipment, however, if your queen in the > most productive time of each year, does not lay 1200 to 1500, > eggs per day, (24hrs) your brood numbers will decline and your > pollination of your plants will fail to be meet. > > This is because the field bees have declined, owing to the lack > of ongoing hatching brood. I don't understand your comments. My response to your earlier post was because for the last three years every single one of my colonies has required me to take swarm control measures, despite various measures to give them space, ventilation, wax-work and so on. That includes even this year with some colonies not yet working the supers. You claim that my regular inspections, which are deemed necessary in the UK and, for me at least, appear to be so, are actually *encouraging* the swarming. How so? My problem is definitely *not* one of declining colonies. Regards, -- Gordon Scott gordon@apis.demon.co.uk gordon@multitone.co.uk (work) The Basingstoke Beekeeper (newsletter) beekeeper@apis.demon.co.uk Embryo Home Page Beekeeper; Kendo 3rd Dan; Sometime sailor. Hampshire, England. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 28 May 1996 19:08:18 +0100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Gordon Scott Subject: Re: Unsolicited files. In-Reply-To: <31A8555E.1172@mail.bconnex.net> Hi All, Two other things to think about regarding unsolicited files. 1) They consume bandwidth, whether or not the recipient wants them. 2) Not all computers will find them useful. For example, PC programs generally don't run on Macs and vice versa. Personally, I use a Unix system that would find software for either of those platforms unhelpful ;-) Regards, -- Gordon Scott gordon@apis.demon.co.uk gordon@multitone.co.uk (work) The Basingstoke Beekeeper (newsletter) beekeeper@apis.demon.co.uk Embryo Home Page Beekeeper; Kendo 3rd Dan; Sometime sailor. Hampshire, England. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 29 May 1996 11:26:48 GMT+1200 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Nick Wallingford Organization: Bay of Plenty Polytechnic Subject: Protein and colony development... Thanks to several BEE-L readers I got the article I was trying to recall that related colony development to the quality of protein available to the hive. This was particularly relevant to the Australian migratory beekeeping, where you didn't want the colony to 'collapse' when on a flow. I've placed the article on the NZ Beekeeping Home Pages for anyone who is interested. I'll only leave it there for a few weeks, then maybe get in the habit of putting some other relevant/useful material. The address is in my .sig file, and the link to the Kleinschimdt article is near the bottom of the page. For those without graphical WWW access, my apologies. ------------------------------------------ Nick Wallingford President - National Beekeepers Assn of NZ NZ beekeeping: http://www.wave.co.nz/pages/nickw/nzbkpg.htm work nw1@boppoly.ac.nz home nickw@wave.co.nz ------------------------------------------ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 29 May 1996 00:08:42 GMT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Franklin D. Humphrey Sr." Subject: Re: swarm prevention for the hobbiest? At 10:03 PM 5/28/96 +0000, you wrote: >On Thu, 23 May 1996, Robin Wells wrote: > >> Franklin D. Humphrey Sr. wrote: >> > >> > I know of a hobbyist who winters 10 colonies and only 10 colonies each year. >> > He winters in double brood chambers and splits each spring using queen cells >> > or commercial queens as conditions require. He then recombines in the fall >> > keeping the younger queen. ... > >> However one coloney split in to two will not produce as much >> honey combined that same year as the one coloney would if >> retained as one. > >In the south east of the UK, you'd say goodbye to at least half >your crop, as these days, much comes from oilseed rape which >flowers very early. > >Regards, >-- >Gordon Scott gordon@apis.demon.co.uk gordon@multitone.co.uk (work) >The Basingstoke Beekeeper (newsletter) beekeeper@apis.demon.co.uk >Embryo Home Page >Beekeeper; Kendo 3rd Dan; Sometime sailor. Hampshire, England. > I think I need to clarify this method of swarm control. When my friend splits, He leaves 8 frames of brood and all the field bees with the original hive. This is done about the 1st of April about 4 weeks before the main honey flow. When the honey flow starts, the colony is at full strength but not so crowed as to cause swarming. He also puts 2 to 3 supers on the original colony when he makes the split. He usually gets 3 supers of honey from each in an average year. I have used this method myself to make increase and it works well here. Part of the reason it works is that we have a very short season.(mid May to Mid July at best) I have one colony of Yugos that I did this way this year and the main colony is working on it's 4th super of honey. I checked the brood chamber the other day just to make sure they were not about to swarm and found 10 frames of solid brood and no queen cells. There are enough bees to cover all ten frames ion the brood chamber plus most of the frames in three of the four supers on the hive. So for us here, in the southern US, this method works very well either for swarm control, or for making increase. I can't speak for any place else, but that is a lot of honey in four weeks and a single brood chamber. Franklin D. Humphrey Sr. beekeeper@wornet.att.net ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 28 May 1996 21:35:26 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Robin Wells Subject: Re: Unsolicited files. Gordon Scott wrote: > > Hi All, > > Two other things to think about regarding unsolicited files. > > 1) They consume bandwidth, whether or not the recipient wants them. > > 2) Not all computers will find them useful. For example, PC > programs generally don't run on Macs and vice versa. Personally, > I use a Unix system that would find software for either of > those platforms unhelpful ;-) Very good point Gordon, which is why all files should be distributed in one of two methods only. Either by using ASCII text files, which any computer should be able to read with little to no problems. The other being using Adobes .PDF file format which allows documents to traverse virtually any format including the text, graphics, etc. The PDF format has readers in Unix, Mac, PC, etc; and you will find more and more files on Web pages distributed in this format. -- ######################### rawells@jenera.com http://www.jenera.com ######################### ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 28 May 1996 20:22:19 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: _ Subject: Re: Looking to Buy Queen You wrote: > >Does anyone have Queens for sale yet, in the Ontario Canada area? Hi, can't tell you about Ontario but DON'T ORDER BEES FROM BLUE RIDGE APIARIES aka BLUE RIDGE FARMS of cayce, south carolina, usa. they don't deliver and they don't refund. my order is now 13 months late. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 29 May 1996 09:59:37 +0200 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Max Watkins Subject: Re: Varroa reference? Comments: To: owner-bee-l@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU See Henderson, C.E., J. Steiner & B. Alexander, 1986; Varroa jacobsoni life cycle. American Bee Journal 126: 117-119. Carol Henderson produced probably the first accurate description of the life cycle and this paper is still referred to today, 10 years later. Hope this helps Max.Watkins@GWA.SANDOZ.COM ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Varroa reference? Author: owner-bee-l@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU at INTERNET1 Date: 23/05/96 14:33 I N T E R O F F I C E M E M O R A N D U M Date: 23-May-1996 08:20am EST From: Gene Spears SPEARS Dept: Natural and Physical Science Tel No: TO: Remote Addressee ( _bee-l@cnsibm.albany.edu ) Subject: Varroa reference? Can anyone recommend a good reference on the life cycle of Varroa jacobsoni? Preferably one with photos of the mite and from a journal that would be available on interlibrary loan... Thanks in advance! gene spears@bobcat.lmc.edu ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 29 May 1996 11:05:53 GMT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Franklin D. Humphrey Sr." Subject: Re: Unsolicited files. I've heard of beating a dead horse but this one has been in the grave for a week. Talk about consuming bandwidth!!!!!!!!!!!!! Franklin D. Humphrey Sr. beekeeper@wornet.att.net ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 29 May 1996 07:58:44 PDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Adrian Wenner Subject: Re: Preferred Poison >>2. Has anyone come up with a convenient small dispenser -- sort of like >>the old ant traps? We will need to make manyl hundreds, so things >>like jars are a little awkward, and breakable. John Taylor replied: >This may not go a long way toward evironmentally friendly . . . how >about plastic 35mm film canisters? They will hold an ounce or two, >holes are easily made, water resistant and won't shatter. You should >be able to get them from a film developer. John is right. The photo processor centers usually have a box or a bag full of the empty cannisters for the taking. I drill holes in the lids and bottoms and use them as containers for baiting the walnut husk flies and for keeping moth crystals in clothes bags. However, they are relatively indestructable and hardly "environmentally friendly." Perhaps they should be fastened to the bottom board and moved with the hives. Adrian *************************************************************** * Adrian Wenner E-Mail wenner@lifesci.lscf.ucsb.edu * * Dept.Ecol.,Evol.,& Mar.Biol. Office Phone (805) 893-2838 * * University of California Lab Phone (805) 893-2675 * * Santa Barbara, CA 93106 FAX (805) 893-8062 * * * *************************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 29 May 1996 09:36:25 +0000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Mason Harris Organization: SMCOE Subject: Strange comb Hello agiain Bee folks! I worked my bees yesterday and found something I have not seen before. I use permadent, plastic foundation in my hives. I added upper brood chambers about two weeks ago and opened the hives yesterday. In two of the hives I found the foundation undrawn in the central upper brood chamber but the ladies had drawn "wild comb" between the frames of foundation instead. They connected it to the undrawn foundation in spots and left "passages" on the face of the foundation they could walk through. It was like sheets of wild comb between the frames that covered about 1/2 the frame. Other frames of the BC were being drawn out normally. The frames were pushed together so excess space is not the cause. Has anyone seen this before? Why does this happen. I removed all the freak comb with brood in it and let them start over again hopeing they would draw out the frames correctly this time. Folks. Please don't go off on dogmatic threads regarding the benefits of wax foundation over plastic. I have used alot of the plastic, as have other I know, with great sucsess. What do you think is going on here? I would like to know. Thanks. Mason Harris ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 29 May 1996 12:12:07 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Charlie Welch Subject: Information on Master Bee Keeper Certification Does anyone know where I may find information on what it takes to become a Master Beekeeper; such as the types of exams, how to prepare for them, any special requirements, etc.? Charlie Welch Middletown, MD charlie.welch@wj.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 29 May 1996 13:46:44 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: RICHARD BARNES Subject: Re: Strange Comb Along the same subject, I have bees in nine and ten frame supers that are drawing the comb out way to far. The bees are drawing the wax out where the next frame cannot be drawn. I basically have to pull two frames out to get the one drawn frame out. I am using wax foundation on wooden frames. I have tried taking out the "freak" comb and replacing it with already drawn comb and the bees will draw the comb out even futher where ever they run into undrawn foundation. The bees seem to want to only work on the drawn comb frames or will only draw one frame of foundation at a time and are getting over kill on the depth of the wax. We have been very dry in SW Oklahoma this year, could this be part of the problem? I have noticed larger than normal amounts of bees collecting water. A lot more bees than collecting pollen. Any comments would be appreciated. Richard Barnes rbarnes@halnet.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 29 May 1996 13:14:54 -0600 Reply-To: allend@internode.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Allen Dick Organization: The Beekeepers Subject: Re: Preferred Poison > >>2. Has anyone come up with a convenient small dispenser -- sort of > >>like the old ant traps? We will need to make manyl hundreds, so > >>things like jars are a little awkward, and breakable. > > John Taylor replied: > > >This may not go a long way toward evironmentally friendly . . . how > >about plastic 35mm film canisters? They will hold an ounce or two, > >holes are easily made, water resistant and won't shatter. You > >should be able to get them from a film developer. > However, they are relatively indestructable and hardly > "environmentally > friendly." Perhaps they should be fastened to the bottom board and > moved with the hives. > Thanks for the suggestions. I've been thinking, and the idea of leaves got me thinking about a little packet of 2 or three inch squares of sheet plastic stapled on each corner and thrown under the pallets. Ants could get access -- but bees couldn't, water would not likely bother them much, and they would disintegrate over ten or so years -- most untreated plastics fall apart quite quickly in the sun. What do y'all think? Regards Allen W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper VE6CFK RR#1, Swalwell, Alberta Canada T0M 1Y0 Internet:dicka@cuug.ab.ca & allend@internode.net Honey. Bees, & Art ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 29 May 1996 12:18:35 MST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Roberta Gibson Subject: new bee page Bee-Listers: I have been working on a honey bee homepage for educators. It gives lesson plans for activities with children, covering everything from art to the news media. The page is still under construction and I need your help. Please take a look at http://ag.arizona.edu/AES/mac/ahb/ahbhome.html (the AES must be caps) and let me know if you have any ideas, problems downloading, etc. Thanks, P.S. The person who wanted bee songs should check Activity Sheet 22 http://ag.arizona.edu/AES/mac/ahb/act22.html ******************************************************************************* Roberta L. Gibson Phone: (520) 568-2273 ext 224 University of Arizona Fax: (520) 568 -2556 Maricopa Agricultural Center e-mail: rgibson@ag.arizona.edu 37860 W. Smith-Enke Rd. Maricopa, AZ 85239 ^Oo-O ^Oo-O ^Oo-O ^Oo-O "` "` "` "` ******************************************************************************** "Where there is honey, there are bees" **************************************************************************** **** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 29 May 1996 22:42:54 +0200 Reply-To: beeman@kuai.se Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: P-O Gustafsson Subject: Re: Strange Comb RICHARD BARNES wrote: > The bees seem to want to only work on the drawn > comb frames or will only draw one frame of foundation at a time and are > getting over kill on the depth of the wax. We have been very dry in SW > Oklahoma this year, could this be part of the problem? Hi Richard, Yes when you get a honey flow the bees will draw your foundation. They don't often produce wax until there is a flow. Then of course there is difference between strains of bees, some do build comb without a flow. But mostly not to any larger degree. -- Regards P-O Gustafsson, Sweden beeman@kuai.se http://www.kuai.se/~beeman/ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 29 May 1996 22:48:43 +0200 Reply-To: beeman@kuai.se Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: P-O Gustafsson Subject: Re: Strange comb Mason Harris wrote: > I worked my bees yesterday and found something I have not seen > before. I use permadent, plastic foundation in my hives. I added upper > brood chambers about two weeks ago and opened the hives yesterday. In two > of the hives I found the foundation undrawn in the central upper brood > chamber but the ladies had drawn "wild comb" between the frames of > foundation instead. They connected it to the undrawn foundation in spots and > left "passages" on the face of the foundation they could walk through. It was > like sheets of wild comb between the frames that covered about 1/2 the > frame. Other frames of the BC were being drawn out normally. Hi Mason, Some colonies just want to build comb the wrong way, I belive it's something genetic. I have a few of those every year making a mess in my boxes. Guess you'll have to keep on removing that extra comb until the frames are drawn properly. -- Regards P-O Gustafsson, Sweden beeman@kuai.se http://www.kuai.se/~beeman/ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 29 May 1996 21:23:37 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Vince Coppola Subject: Re: Bees ignoring sugar syrup In-Reply-To: On Tue, 21 May 1996, Tim Peters wrote: > Hello Everyone: > > Although it is somewhat moot this late in the season, a question has > cropped > up in my mind. > > This year, for the first time, my girls were dis-interested in the > sugar syrup I have noticed quite a few colonies that will not take syrup since last fall. At that time I was feeding corn syrup with fumidil, even some strong colonies ingnored the feed long after the last flow. Same this spring. These colonies have gone downhill while the ones accepting feed have built normaly. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 30 May 1996 06:18:57 +0100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Sid Pullinger Subject: Old Combs I am afraid I must disagree with the last sentence. As I said in an earlier letter I cut the combs into three inch strips and place them on edge parallel to the sides of the extractor. This allows all the wax, midrib and cell walls to drain freely, leaving a mass of cocoons which fall apart and appear quite dry. In the past I have tried other methods of reclaiming old combs and found it not worth the labour and expense. The solar costs nothing. It takes a couple of minutes to slice the combs and load it. All that's left is to wait for the sun to shine. A long wait for me this year because to date we have had only two days continuous sun. Every scrap of waste wax, cappings, scrapings, damaged and black combs, all go into the solar. As a result I always have a surplus, making my own foundation and a sideline in candles. I have never made any weight tests, percentage of wax recovered. Never found the necessity. However, later this year I will try to do so and report back. Meanwhile I am satisfied that this is the cheapest and labour free method of dealing with old combs for the small beekeeper. Incidentally, to all those who do not yet have a solar and contemplate making one, make it big enough to take excluders, as it makes an excellent job of cleaning and sterilising them. Sid P. _________________________________________________________________ Sid Pullinger Email : sidpul@aladdin.co.uk 36, Grange Rd Compuserve: 100343.1216@compuserve.com Alresford Hants SO24 9HF England ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 29 May 1996 22:36:02 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Jeffrey R. Tooker" Subject: Re: weighing machine for hives At 10:53 AM 5/21/96 +0200, you wrote: >Hello! >Our school of engineers is working in technology transfer. One of our projects is the development of an inexpensive automatic weighing machine for bee hives. It consists of a frame equiped with sensors that takes place underneath the hive and an electronic pocket instrument for data acquisition. This instrument can be used for many frames and connected to a computer. >We are interested in knowing the main characteristics of such a device and would be pleased if you could possibly answer the following questions : >1. What should be the range of measure of the weighing machine? >2. What should be the precision? >3. What would be reasonable price for a frame? >4. What would be reasonable price for a data acquisition instrument? >5. How many hives would you equip with such a device? > >Thank you for your collaboration. > >Serge Amoos >Ecole d'ing=E9nieurs du Valais >47, rte du Rawyl >1950 Sion >Switzerland >phone xx41 27 243 212 >fax xx41 27 243 215 >e-mail serge.amoos@eiv.vsnet.ch > >Hello Serge: I am an instrument technician by trade. I have just finished working on a= =20 state of the art Bio-tech facility. The facility was built for Bayer (of Germany) in Berkeley California. They have very sophisticated weighing systems for the vessles they are using.=20 There are some things I would like to know about some of your system=20 requirements. =20 1. Is the frame used for weighing all the hives with one frame or is there a= =20 frame for each hive? 2. Is the pocket instrument or the frame hooked to the computer, or do you= =20 just use the pocket instrument to collect data and dump it into the= computer? 3. What is the maximum number of deep hive bodies(brood chambers or supers)= =20 that You will allow in each hive. 4. How often are you checking hive weight, and what is the time frame of the monitoring, (days,years)? 5. What are the worst case conditions the equiptment would have to operate= in? 6. Do you want an off the shelf solution or do you want to build your own? 7. What resolution do you want, grams, kilos? 8. What is the general object of the project? This is a starting place hope to hear from you soon. Thank you Jeffrey R. Tooker=20 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 29 May 1996 23:08:52 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Jeffrey R. Tooker" Subject: Re: Protein and colony development... At 11:26 AM 5/29/96 GMT+1200, you wrote: >Thanks to several BEE-L readers I got the article I was trying to >recall that related colony development to the quality of protein >available to the hive. This was particularly relevant to the >Australian migratory beekeeping, where you didn't want the colony to >'collapse' when on a flow. > >I've placed the article on the NZ Beekeeping Home Pages for anyone >who is interested. I'll only leave it there for a few weeks, then >maybe get in the habit of putting some other relevant/useful >material. The address is in my .sig file, and the link to the >Kleinschimdt article is near the bottom of the page. > >For those without graphical WWW access, my apologies. > >------------------------------------------ >Nick Wallingford >President - National Beekeepers Assn of NZ >NZ beekeeping: http://www.wave.co.nz/pages/nickw/nzbkpg.htm >work nw1@boppoly.ac.nz home nickw@wave.co.nz >------------------------------------------ > >Yo Nick and all: Read the Kleinschimdt, very nice. I would like to know if anyone has Kleinschimdt paper in a text file? If so please post to list or me (personal e-mail) which ever is more comfortable. Thank You Jeffrey ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 30 May 1996 07:51:49 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Joel Govostes Subject: Queen rearing during cold wx I made up 20 nucs yesterday with newly-sealed queen cells. Then we had a cold air mass move in - it got down near 40 (or below) last night. After all that work, now I'm quite concerned - are my queens doomed? Some of the cells were at the bottom of the brood combs. I fear that they might have gotten too chilled, being at the bottom of the hives near the entrances. The nucs were not very populous, maybe three frames of bees. Does anyone have any idea whether the queens would die, develop abnormally, or just take longer to develop in cool conditions? I do not know if the bees in the nucs would "know" to cluster on the q cells, either. This cool weather is getting annoying - very abnormal for this time of year; the black locusts are barely opening leaves yet! Thank you for any info. -- Joel ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 30 May 1996 10:24:21 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Dave Green, Eastern Pollinator Newsletter" Subject: Re: Bees ignoring sugar syrup On Tue, 21 May 1996, Tim Peters wrote: > Hello Everyone: > > Although it is somewhat moot this late in the season, a question has > cropped > up in my mind. > > This year, for the first time, my girls were dis-interested in the > sugar syrup And Vince Cappola added: > I have noticed quite a few colonies that will not take syrup >since last fall. At that time I was feeding corn syrup with fumidil, even >some strong colonies ingnored the feed long after the last flow. Same >this spring. These colonies have gone downhill while the ones accepting >feed have built normaly. I think one of the most valuable lessons I learned during the heyday of tracheal mite, is: "Do not nurse along junk! Cull it." One of the first symptoms of sick bees is that they will not take feed (and there is no flow going on). Despite all efforts, these bees will dwindle. They may limp along for an entire season before demise, but they will not be productive. If the bees are still strong, you may want to postpone the decision, for a bit, but you should be checking them carefully, and be hardnosed about culling, if they are not recovering. If you are not convinced they are sick, recheck often and evaluate. Compare their buildup/production with other hives. Smell them. Are they sweet smelling or do they have a faint sour smell? Do the bees look clean, and nice, or are there a lot of greasy looking bees? Are the cappings light and fresh looking, or are they dark and greasy? Does the brood look healthy? Or are there pupae developing without caps, missing brood in a lot of cells, chalkbrood, sacbrood, EFB. Many of the bee diseases are linked to genetic weaknesses. There are a lot of other possibilities here, too, so it may confuse the issue. There could be an old failing queen, a young poorly fed, or poorly mated queen, pesticide stored away in pollen, lack of quality pollen feed, etc. But, if there is a real question, I would requeen immediately, if early in the season, or combine with a good colony, after killing the queen from the poor one, if late in the season. Breed queens from your best stock, or buy from a trustworthy breeder. I have no proof of the following thought, but would like to pass it along for consideration. I suspect we may be to blame for some of this genetic weakness. I am referring to our attempts to breed out swarminess from bees. About six years ago, I switched from trying to eliminate swarminess, to using swarm cells at every opportunity, (assuming other characteristics were suitable), and the bees seem to be responding very positively. I have a very intense spring season, as I have to practice a lot of swarm management, but the bees look very nice this year, and they have been highly productive. Swarming is so natural to bees that attempts to limit it may well be counterproductive. We forget that this is their native mode of reproduction. (We are not oriented to honey production, and I have never considered this area very good for honey production, but we set a personal record this spring in southwestern South Carolina, with 1 1/2 tons of honey removed from 19 hives, the bulk of that produced by a dozen. The yard average is not so special, as there were a couple deadouts, a couple weak ones, and about 6 that never went through the excluder, but swarmed instead. I was using pretty old, dry comb in the supers, and discovered again how important is was to put a couple of frames of honey or brood above the excluder to bait them through it.) The bees going out to vine pollination look very good (at least until the cotton spraying starts). We are impressed and encouraged by their strength and activity. Well I've got to go get some fresh queens. I was out of queens yesterday, and I marked two with chalkbrood for requeening. I hope they came in. We have about one more hard day of moving bees ahead, then a few odds and ends to finish up spring pollination. Melons, cukes, and squash look very nice. We were in a real dry spell and there was a lot of wilting going on, but we've now had some good rains and the plants are all smiling. Up north now, y'all ask for well-pollinated melons. If the produce man looks blank, tell him how the bees put the sweetness in them. If they come from South Carolina, there's a good chance my bees did them. Now, if they taste awful, and gas you up, and have a lot of white unpollinated seeds, my bees didn't do it. The farmer didn't get them. I'd like to put on a sticker that says: BEE SWEET - A Well-Pollinated Melon, (with a picture of a honey dipper oozing honey), so people will know that the ones that got 15 or 20 visits by a bee will be nice and sweet. I want a melon that you serve ice cold, and it splits ahead of the knife. Ummmm. Pollinator@aol.com Dave Green, PO Box 1200, Hemingway, SC 29554 Practical Pollination Home Page Dave & Janice Green http://users.aol.com/pollinator/polpage1.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 30 May 1996 16:46:18 +0200 Reply-To: beeman@kuai.se Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: P-O Gustafsson Subject: Re: Queen rearing during cold wx Joel Govostes wrote: > > I made up 20 nucs yesterday with newly-sealed queen cells. Then we had a > cold air mass move in - it got down near 40 (or below) last night. After > all that work, now I'm quite concerned - are my queens doomed? Hi Joel, Don't think you will have any problem. There would still be larvae in the cells and they can take some cold. But don't do it with pupas! If you chill the cell a few days before hatching you might have queen without proper wings. -- Regards P-O Gustafsson, Sweden beeman@kuai.se http://www.kuai.se/~beeman/ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 30 May 1996 12:12:44 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: David Bernard Subject: EAS Master Beekeeper Exam There are several Master Beekeeper Programs, however the Maryland Master Beekeeper Program no longer exists. Maryland relies on the Eastern Apicultural Society and the EAS Master Beekeeper Program to certify beekeepers as Master Beekeepers. Beekeepers are required to have a minimum of 5 years experience and should pre-register for the examination with the EAS Secretary, Lorretta Surprenant. The examination is a three part exam consisting of a field or practical examination, a laboratory examination and a written examination. The exam is only given once a year during the annual EAS conference, which will be held in Harrisonburg, VA this year from July29-Aug 2, 1996. The exam will be given on Thursday Aug 1, 1996. For more information, write to the EAS Secrectary (I don't have her address of phone number currently available but can post it to you tomorrow.) There are copies of the exams from the past several years on file that the Secretary can mail to you and you can see the types of questions asked. The field exam is pretty simple if you have had beekeeping experience. The written exam consists of true/false, multiple chooice, and essay questions on bee biology, history, diseases, management, etc. The laboratory exam consists of stations where you have to identify the item at each station. This item could be just about anything related to beekeeping including other stinging insects, equipment, diseases and pests, etc. The EAS Master Beekeeper Program is currently adminstered by Dr. John Ambrose at North Carolina State University, however, it is my understanding that Maryann Tomasko Frasier will administer the exam in 1997. Also, the testing and certification requirements may be changing in the future, for example, to include public speaking and community service types of requirements. I encourage you to take the exam and would be willing to personally discuss the exam at length if you wish. Good Luck! David > Does anyone know where I may find information on what it takes to > become a Master Beekeeper; such as the types of exams, how to prepare > for them, any special requirements, etc.? > > Charlie Welch > Middletown, MD > charlie.welch@wj.com David Bernard EAS Master Beekeeper Vice President, Maryland State Beekeepers EAS Director for Maryland Damascus, MD USA Home 301-414-2317 Work 301-496-3798 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 30 May 1996 16:26:08 +0100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Gordon Scott Subject: Re: Moving eggs and larvae In-Reply-To: <48835.ptacek@elanor.sci.muni.cz> On Tue, 28 May 1996, Vladimir Ptacek wrote: > season out of hives. When checking colonies after a week or so he found > four queen cells on one of those combs. There was a gueen excluder on the > brood nest and no other brood cells in about three honey supers bellow the > top super. We guessed then, bees had to move eggs from the brood nest to > raise queens in this part of hive far from the source of the queen > substance ... Hm, I've had brood above the QX in one colony this year and last. I only proved drones as they were trapped, and it was mostly drone foundation so I wondered if I had a laying worker in addition to the queen. Now I wonder if they might have been moving eggs. There was some apparently used worker foundation, but no real evidence when I looked. I shall try to investigate further. Of course, it's also possible the queen could actually get through the QX somewhere -- they're not perfect. This also makes me wonder if a 'Jumbo' hive is still too small for my bees, even in the UK. Regards, -- Gordon Scott gordon@apis.demon.co.uk gordon@multitone.co.uk (work) The Basingstoke Beekeeper (newsletter) beekeeper@apis.demon.co.uk Embryo Home Page Beekeeper; Kendo 3rd Dan; Sometime sailor. Hampshire, England. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 30 May 1996 16:34:14 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: David Eyre Subject: Re: Queen rearing during cold wx >I made up 20 nucs yesterday with newly-sealed queen cells. Then we had a >cold air mass move in - it got down near 40 (or below) last night. After >all that work, now I'm quite concerned - are my queens doomed? > >Some of the cells were at the bottom of the brood combs. I fear that they >might have gotten too chilled, being at the bottom of the hives near the >entrances. The nucs were not very populous, maybe three frames of bees. >Does anyone have any idea whether the queens would die, develop abnormally, >or just take longer to develop in cool conditions? I do not know if the >bees in the nucs would "know" to cluster on the q cells, either. This cool >weather is getting annoying - very abnormal for this time of year; the >black locusts are barely opening leaves yet! Thank you for any info. -- >Joel > We have had temperatures lower than 40 and the queen cells in our baby nuc's have survived very well, so there should be no cause for concern. We are making up baby nuc's and still getting frosts and there doesn't seem to be any problem. Maybe we should put the A-Z of beekeeping in front of the hive for the bees to read and then they will all know what to do :-) **************************************************** * David Eyre 9 Progress Drive, Unit 2, * * The Beeworks, Orillia, Ontario, L3V 6H1. * * beeworks@muskoka.net 705-326-7171 * * http://www.muskoka.net/~beeworks * * Agents for: E H Thorne & B J Sherriff UK. * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 30 May 1996 20:41:51 GMT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Franklin D. Humphrey Sr." Subject: Re: Bees ignoring sugar syrup At 02:24 PM 5/30/96 +0000, you wrote: >On Tue, 21 May 1996, Tim Peters wrote: > >> Hello Everyone: >> >> Although it is somewhat moot this late in the season, a question >has >> cropped >> up in my mind. >> >> This year, for the first time, my girls were dis-interested in the >> sugar syrup > > >And Vince Cappola added: > >> I have noticed quite a few colonies that will not take syrup >>since last fall. At that time I was feeding corn syrup with fumidil, even >>some strong colonies ingnored the feed long after the last flow. Same >>this spring. These colonies have gone downhill while the ones accepting >>feed have built normaly. > And David Green added: > I think one of the most valuable lessons I learned during the heyday of >tracheal mite, is: "Do not nurse along junk! Cull it." > > One of the first symptoms of sick bees is that they will not take feed >(and there is no flow going on). Despite all efforts, these bees will >dwindle. They may limp along for an entire season before demise, but they >will not be productive. > Before you start culling bees, Make sure you really have a problem. I've had bees that wouldn't take sugar syrup when there was a nectar flow on even if they didn't have enough field bees to gather it. In this case I have had success with candy made with old honey and powdered sugar. It tides them over until they start flying in sufficient numbers. Also make sure sure sugar syrup is fresh. Sometimes the bees won't take it when it develops that slime in it. About 2 tablespoons of Apple Cider vinegar added when mixing helps this problem. And finally corm syrup. There are several ways this product is processed. The corn syrup that I can get locally, is so thick you almost need a knife to cut it. Great stuff right? The bees won't touch it even when they are starving. My daughter gets me some from a supplier in Atlanta that is much thinner and the bees love it. All I'm trying to say is, don't cut your throat if you don't have to. Franklin D. Humphrey Sr. beekeeper@wornet.att.net ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 30 May 1996 18:09:28 +0100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Gordon Scott Subject: Re: swarm prevention for the hobbiest? In-Reply-To: <199605290008.AAA21686@mailhost.worldnet.att.net> On Wed, 29 May 1996, Franklin D. Humphrey Sr. wrote: Franklin D. Humphrey Sr. wrote: FDH> I know of a hobbyist who winters 10 colonies and only 10 FDH> colonies each year. He winters in double brood chambers and FDH> splits each spring using queen cells or commercial queens as FDH> conditions require. He then recombines in the fall keeping FDH> the younger queen. ... Gordon Scott wtote: GS> In the south east of the UK, you'd say goodbye to at least half GS> your crop, as these days, much comes from oilseed rape which GS> flowers very early. Franklin D. Humphrey Sr. wrote: FDH> This is done about the 1st of April about 4 weeks before the FDH> main honey flow. When the honey flow starts, the colony is at FDH> full strength but not so crowed as to cause swarming. In my area, the oilseed rape (our cash crop) is up and running within about a week of our first full inspection in, say, early April and is over by mid to late May. So, often, is the swarming. Our next crop is usually much later. > So for us here, in the southern US, this method works very well > either for swarm control, or for making increase. Sorry, I didn't mean my post as a critisism of the method, just as a local observation. Regards, Gordon. -- Gordon Scott gordon@apis.demon.co.uk gordon@multitone.co.uk (work) The Basingstoke Beekeeper (newsletter) beekeeper@apis.demon.co.uk Embryo Home Page Beekeeper; Kendo 3rd Dan; Sometime sailor. Hampshire, England. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 30 May 1996 13:13:47 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Michael Moroney Subject: Re: Strange comb In-Reply-To: <<31AC1A99.504E@ed.co.sanmateo.ca.us> One thing that will help getting the bees to draw comb properly is to remove as much of the wild comb as possible and place the frame between two properly drawn frames of brood. Only do this if you have enough bees to keep the brood warm with the extra space. You can place it between honey frames too but this is less likely to succeed. -Mike ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 30 May 1996 19:19:49 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ivan McGill Subject: Re: Old Combs > Every scrap of waste wax, cappings, scrapings, damaged and black >combs, all go into the solar. As a result I always have a surplus, making >my own foundation and a sideline in candles. > I have never made any weight tests, percentage of wax recovered. >Never found the necessity. However, later this year I will try to do so and >report back. Meanwhile I am satisfied that this is the cheapest and labour >free method of dealing with old combs for the small beekeeper. > Incidentally, to all those who do not yet have a solar and >contemplate making one, make it big enough to take excluders, as it makes an >excellent job of cleaning and sterilising them. Sid P. >_________________________________________________________________ >Sid Pullinger Email : sidpul@aladdin.co.uk >36, Grange Rd Compuserve: 100343.1216@compuserve.com >Alresford >Hants SO24 9HF >England Just as a matter of curiosity you mentioned that you made your own foundation? Do you use the mould that you can buy? I had seem one advertised years ago in Gleaning In Bee Culture. It was made in England. Ivan ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 31 May 1996 07:09:30 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: John Justin Spaulding III Subject: Dallas school looking for beekeeper asap (fwd) I thought I'd post this on the list I received it via the WCBA homepage and don't know of anyone from that area. Anyone out there near Dallas(I assume Texas,USA.)or know someone who is that can help. Thanks. John Spaulding Associate Curator, Wildlife Center juggler@nesc.org New England Science Center ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Thu, 30 May 1996 13:00:08 +0000 From: The Lamplighter School To: juggler@nesc.org Subject: Dallas school looking for beekeeper asap Hello from Big "D", We are looking for a beekeeper to come speak to our summer school program children. The ages range from 3-7. Do you have any knowledge of anyone in the Dallas area. We would need this guest speaker the week of June 10-14. What can you do for us? ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 31 May 1996 08:08:11 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Kelley Rosenlund Subject: Re: Bees ignoring sugar syrup >Also make sure sure sugar syrup is fresh. Sometimes the bees won't take it >when it develops that slime in it. About 2 tablespoons of Apple Cider >vinegar added when mixing helps this problem. 2 tablespoons per ?? Do the bees have any problem with the vinegar? God Bless, Kelley Rosenlund rosenlk@freenet.ufl.edu Gainesville, Florida, U.S.A., 170 hives, 1 year in beekeeping. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 31 May 1996 11:51:56 EDT Reply-To: rgendrea@foxboro.com Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Roland Gendreau Subject: Bee Clubs in the Binghamtom NY area A hobbyist friend of mine is relocating from Massachusetts to New York and is looking for a contact for a Beekeeper club in the Binghamton area. If anyone out there is aware of one, I'd appreciate a name, telephone or email contact. TIA Roland ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 31 May 1996 12:15:14 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Yasmin Cardoza Subject: Honey donors around Gainesville Hi! The Entomology and Nematology Student Organization (ENSO) at the University of Florida is looking for honey donors around the Gainesville area. The honey is to be sold for fund raising. The money obtained from the sale will be used for travel grants for students of limited resources. We would greatly appreciate any information on people we may contact for this purpose. Please send any information directly to ycardo@gnv.ifas.ufl.edu ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 31 May 1996 13:34:44 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Aaron Morris Subject: August mite workshop in Upstate New York August Mite Workshop at Better Bee A workshop sponsored by the Southern Adirondack Beekeepers Association, intended to help beekeepers deal with parasitic mites, will be hosted on August 10, rain or shine, at the Better Bee and Meadery in Greenwich, New York from 10 am to 3 pm. Scheduled speakers include Dr. Nick Calderone from Cornell University and Kirk Webster from Middlebury Vermont. The workshop will be followed by a panel discussion and open questions from the audience. Dr. Nick Calderone is Dr. Roger Morse's replacement at Cornell University. He has been researching plant extracts as a means to combat varroa mites. Kirk Webster is a commercial beekeeper in Middlebury, Vermont who is having success breeding 'northern' bees which are better able to withstand the harsh northern climate than southern bred bees (See January '96 ABJ). The mite workshop will be open to the general public and all beekeepers are encouraged to attend. There will be a $5 fee for SABA members, $10 for nonmembers to help cover the cost of the speakers. Spouses and families are welcome at no ex- tra cost. Please bring a picnic lunch. If interested, send E-Mail to sysam@cnsibm.albany.edu for more details. Sincerely, Aaron Morris ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 31 May 1996 09:50:29 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Sally Fries Organization: U of AK Anchorage-Library Subject: Re: Blue Orchard Bees I am looking for information on a bee that does well in a greenhouse situation. I have heard that perhaps this would be a "Blue Orchard Bee", "A Blue Bee", etc. Any information would be helpful. (As I am new on the list please answer to my e-mail directly if this subject has been visited before.) Thanks! ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 31 May 1996 20:50:36 +0200 Reply-To: beeman@kuai.se Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: P-O Gustafsson Subject: Re: Bees ignoring sugar syrup Kelley Rosenlund wrote: > > >Also make sure sure sugar syrup is fresh. Sometimes the bees won't take it > >when it develops that slime in it. About 2 tablespoons of Apple Cider > >vinegar added when mixing helps this problem. > > 2 tablespoons per ?? Do the bees have any problem with the vinegar? Hi Kelly, I'm also using vinegar in the feed. One liter of 12% vinegar to 600 kg sugar /400 liter water. Prevent fermentation and mould in the feeders. Bees don't mind, even heard somewhere that it's good for them. -- Regards P-O Gustafsson, Sweden beeman@kuai.se http://www.kuai.se/~beeman/ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 31 May 1996 22:06:43 GMT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Franklin D. Humphrey Sr." Subject: Re: Bees ignoring sugar syrup At 12:08 PM 5/31/96 +0000, you wrote: >>Also make sure sure sugar syrup is fresh. Sometimes the bees won't take it >>when it develops that slime in it. About 2 tablespoons of Apple Cider >>vinegar added when mixing helps this problem. > > >2 tablespoons per ?? Do the bees have any problem with the vinegar? > >God Bless, >Kelley Rosenlund rosenlk@freenet.ufl.edu >Gainesville, Florida, U.S.A., 170 hives, 1 year in beekeeping. > 2 tablespoons per Gallon Frank Humphrey beekeeper@worldnet.att.net Franklin D. Humphrey Sr. beekeeper@wornet.att.net