Received: from [169.226.1.21] by relay.internode.net (SMTPD32-3.02) id A6DF133C00FE; Tue, 12 Nov 1996 12:58:23 -0700 Received: from CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU by CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU (IBM VM SMTP V2R2) with BSMTP id 1289; Tue, 12 Nov 96 15:02:12 EST Received: from CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU (NJE origin LISTSERV@ALBNYVM1) by CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU (LMail V1.2c/1.8c) with BSMTP id 2356; Tue, 12 Nov 1996 15:02:05 -0500 Date: Tue, 12 Nov 1996 15:01:59 -0500 From: "L-Soft list server at ALBNYVM1 (1.8b)" Subject: File: "BEE-L LOG9606A" To: "W. Allen Dick" X-UIDL: 380 Status: U ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 31 May 1996 21:38:54 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ann Dougherty Subject: scuba diving bees In-Reply-To: <199605312206.WAA06822@mailhost.worldnet.att.net> I caught a swarm a couple weeks ago and started feeding it syrup with a division board feeder. They were taking the syrup real fast and making nice white comb just like a swarm. When I went to fill the feeder again there were many bees at the bottom of the feeder licking the remaining syrup up. I poured the syrup on top of them expecting them to float or crawl to the top. Most of them did just that. Ispent at least 2 minutes looking for eggs etc., and before closing the hive looked in the feeder. There were still some bees crawling on the screened sides of the feeder fully submerged walking up and down the screen in a very undistressed manner. Can a bee hold its breath? Or had an air bubble formed over each spiracle? How did they do that? Eventually they came to the top and went about their business. Ann Dougherty Kirkland, WA. usa ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 1 Jun 1996 15:35:14 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "David. E. Goble" Subject: Re: Egg moving >I have two unrelated questions: Do honey bees move eggs? Cell to cell? >Hive to hive? Some where I recall reading that someone said he had a >colony rob an egg from a hive to raise a queen. > >I've been melting old combs in my solar melter and have noticed that the >older the comb the less wax is recovered. Newer combs provide more wax. >Can someone give me an answer as to why this is so. > > Thanks, > Ann >Ann Dougherty >Kirkland, Washington USA > Hi Ann, Yes bees will robb a egg to commence queen raising if the hive has been queenless and is at threat. The reason for the lower amount of wax in old comb is that the old comb has the remain of the hatching brood in this comb, hence less wax. The solar principle does not have enough heat to remove the wax from this old brood remains. Thanks from : goble@eastend.com.au http://www.eastend.com.au/~goble degob1@mugc.cc.monash.ed.au ( David Goble ) American Beach Kangaroo Island South Australia ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 1 Jun 1996 05:55:39 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Dick Subject: Re: Blue Orchard Bees >I am looking for information on a bee that does well in a greenhouse >situation. I have heard that perhaps this would be a "Blue Orchard Bee", >"A Blue Bee", etc. Any information would be helpful. (As I am new on the >list please answer to my e-mail directly if this subject has been visited >before.) Thanks! Sally, Probably the Osmea genus. Try Agr. Res (USDA) 35:7. p. 10-11. 1987. Also The Director, Hort. Exp. Sta., Iitoyo, Kitakami, Iwate 024, Japan, where they raise Osmea cornuta--"Horn-faced" blue bees. Dick Strohl 2648 Inglewood Ave. S. St. Louis Park, MN 55416-3928 rstroh19@popmail.skypoint.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 1 Jun 1996 08:02:35 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Wesley A Voigt Jr Subject: Catologs In a message dated 96-05-30 23:26:55 EDT, you write: >Just as a matter of curiosity you mentioned that you made your own >foundation? Do you use the mould that you can buy? I had seem one >advertised years ago in Gleaning In Bee Culture. It was made in England. > >Ivan I would like to get some beekeeping catologs from other parts of the world besides the USA. I would like to see some of the equiptment that is being used in other places. Old catologs, addresses, e-mail adresses, or phone numbers to order them them from would be fine. Thanks for your time and help Wesley A Voigt Jr 45 Asbury Drive Cleveland, SC 29635 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 1 Jun 1996 08:57:11 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Roy Nettlebeck Subject: Queen Breeding Hello All, I was adding boxs to my bees that I srarted on April 6th of this year and noticed something. Out of the 25 hives that I added boxs and took a look inside , I saw a big difference in brood patterns. About 30% were solid and made me think about all the honey they will make.Then come the ones with cells that were void, about 100 or more on a frame of capped brood.The ones with the solid brood frames , had a higher population of workers.That is why we want good queens.The queens came from the same breeder and in fact from the same queen Mother. That could be a problem right there.But the drones have a function in this also. I have been raising a few queens myself.To get good queens you need to pay alot of attention to your starters and finishers. Now comes the question, what has the most effect on egg laying of a queen? I should not rule out a pathogen that could kill off some of the larva. Dave Green said something that kept going around in my head. Cull out the slow ones. The ones with holes are not more than 20% behind the ones with solid brood patterns.Maybe I just want perfection and when I see it I want it in all my hives. I thought that it was just a gene problem before and it may still be one? I would like to know what the strongest factor that drives egg production is? Best Regards Roy ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 1 Jun 1996 20:02:40 +0200 Reply-To: beeman@kuai.se Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: P-O Gustafsson Subject: Re: Queen Breeding Roy Nettlebeck wrote: > > Hello All, I was adding boxs to my bees that I srarted on April 6th of > this year and noticed something. Out of the 25 hives that I added boxs > and took a look inside , I saw a big difference in brood patterns. About > 30% were solid and made me think about all the honey they will make.Then > come the ones with cells that were void, about 100 or more on a frame of > capped brood.The ones with the solid brood frames , had a higher > population of workers.That is why we want good queens.The queens came > from the same breeder and in fact from the same queen Mother. That could > be a problem right there.But the drones have a function in this also. Hi Roy, Yes the drones represent half of the inheritance. Without going too deep into genetics, x and y cromosomes and the like, let's talk about the basics in breeding. In all bee breeding there is an amount of inbreeding involved. To secure one trait you find desirable in a line of bees, you need to cross that line with bees that have the same characteristics. That means most of the time you have to cross with close related bees. In that process you will loose sex alleles. The result is that a larger number of eggs will be male instead of female and therefor eaten by the workers. There are different ways of breeding and maintaining the stock, but there will always be inbreeding involved. In order to avoid inbreeding in the production hives, two lines of inbred bees can be crossed, and will often produce excellent material. IMHO there is a careful balance between inbreeding and vitality to produce good queens. -- Regards P-O Gustafsson, Sweden beeman@kuai.se http://www.kuai.se/~beeman/ ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 2 Jun 1996 06:55:04 +0100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Sid Pullinger Subject: Foundation Making Two people have asked for information so I thought it might be of interest to a wider audience. I must point out that it is not something that can be carried out in the kitchen and you need to be a do-it-yourself person. To go with the press you need a container to hold ten to twenty pounds of liquid wax suspended in a water jacket heated by gas or electricity. The local junk yard supplied my needs for less than five pounds. An old fashioned copper (may be a strange word in the States, a ten gallon washing boiler used before the advent of washing machines) and a stainless steel inner cylinder. I fitted a liquid gas ring under the copper and I was in business. The apparatus is still going strong after sixteen years. I purchased the press from Germany in 1980 for =A3150, around 225 dollars. = I salvage every scrap of wax and always have a surplus. The press is the largest made, for deep Dadant size combs but it will make any size. We still have to learn the commonsense of standardisation as we have five different sizes of brood comb and five of supers. Since 1980 this press has turned out all my needs and that of several of my fellow beekeepers. We wire the frames and embed with a 6volt transformer. The financial aspect. To buy foundation in England is very expensive, well over a pound a sheet for my size of combs. I can turn out a hundred sheets in a day without effort and make some candles along the way, all for a few pence worth of gas. Process is simple, very little skill needed.=20 The name of the press is Herzog, quoted output 20 to 30 sheets per hour,( my speed is nearer 20) and is now available in various sizes, Dadant =A3320, Langstroth =A3280, around 420 dollars. This is the price quoted by local appliance firms so might well be cheaper purchased direct. Sid. P. _________________________________________________________________ Sid Pullinger Email : sidpul@aladdin.co.uk 36, Grange Rd Compuserve: 100343.1216@compuserve.com=20 Alresford Hants SO24 9HF England ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 2 Jun 1996 08:50:56 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Zaldo Subject: Re: Preferred Poison > >>2. Has anyone come up with a convenient small dispenser -- sort of like > >>the old ant traps? We will need to make manyl hundreds, so things > >>like jars are a little awkward, and breakable. > > John Taylor replied: > > >This may not go a long way toward evironmentally friendly . . . how > >about plastic 35mm film canisters? They will hold an ounce or two, > >holes are easily made, water resistant and won't shatter. You should > >be able to get them from a film developer. > > However, they are relatively indestructable and hardly "environmentally > friendly." Perhaps they should be fastened to the bottom board and moved > with the hives. First let me say that I am not a Bee Keeper, just a want to bee! I have been following the list with great interest. I feal that I MIGHT finally have something meaningfull to add. How would the boxes for wooden matches work? The ones that I have are 2" X 1.5" X .5" and are made of cardboard. A coat of clearcoat water seal would make them stand up better to the elements. Harry Zaldo@bbs.pconnect.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 2 Jun 1996 10:44:42 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ted Hooper <101535.343@compuserve.com> Subject: Bees 'carrying eggs' Removaal of eggs from comb by bees is a very common occurrence. Personally I thi ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 2 Jun 1996 16:16:03 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Victor M. Kroenke" Subject: Re: Preferred Poison Adrian Wenner wrote: > > >>2. Has anyone come up with a convenient small dispenser -- sort of like > >>the old ant traps? We will need to make manyl hundreds, so things > >>like jars are a little awkward, and breakable. > > John Taylor replied: > > >This may not go a long way toward evironmentally friendly . . . how > >about plastic 35mm film canisters? They will hold an ounce or two, > >holes are easily made, water resistant and won't shatter. You should > >be able to get them from a film developer. > > John is right. The photo processor centers usually have a box or a bag > full of the empty cannisters for the taking. I drill holes in the lids and > bottoms and use them as containers for baiting the walnut husk flies and > for keeping moth crystals in clothes bags. > > However, they are relatively indestructable and hardly "environmentally > friendly." Perhaps they should be fastened to the bottom board and moved > with the hives. If some of you share my bad habit or know someone who does you may consider using empty plastic snuff cans. A couple of 1/8 inch holes drilled through the top or just below the lid on the side should work. They would be easy to clean and refill. just a Kansas suggestion. Vic ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 2 Jun 1996 21:09:49 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Robert J. Cessac" Subject: red clover I am new to bee keeping and have a ranch with a fair amount of red clover in my pastures plus white clover. I have herd conflicting information on pollination of red clover by honey bees. Can someone give me the straight scoop wether honey bees pollinate and obtain nector from red clover? One says they get nector and pollinate only the later flowers in summer. Or is it they only pollinate and not get nector? Thanks Robert Cessac K-B Ranch Natural Beef 2362 St. Rt. O Higbee, MO. 65257 816-248-5201 rcessac@mail.coin.missouri.edu ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 2 Jun 1996 21:36:37 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Maynard R. Thompson" Subject: Re: Preferred Poison Comments: To: Allen Dick In-Reply-To: <199605241934.AA09618@internode.net> Although they may be breakable I think I have an idea for ant bait dispensing. Having a small baby, I indeed have a (massive) supply of baby food jars. The jars otherwise wind up in the recycling bin or public waste, so why not make one more consumer use before recycling. 1. Punch holes large enough for ants in a straight line centered on the jar lid. 2. Place a bit of borax bait/ ant bait in jar and perhaps some apple cores for good measure. 3. Place at the rear right of each hive with jar on its side and holes horizontally oriented. The compromise is the breakability of the glass, but it is unlikely to blow away in high wind. If it is the bee keepers habit to place the bait in a standard location which is not normally approached by non-bee keepers it seems unlikely that they should be broken given reasonable caution. The jar may have to be stepped into the ground a bit or you could wind some wire about the neck of the jar to anchor it if you like. when you inspect the hives you could then quickly glance at your bait jars. If the jar needed more poison you could use a plastic syringe to shoot 10cc or so of fresh bait through one of the holes. One more consideration would be to shield the jar with an old shingle, also a question involved here, does borax degrade in the sunlight making it innefective? Shoot, lets just toss an old shingle over the top, one more post consumption use eh! And if it breaks, there is also the old recycle bin. Maynard. mthompso@MAIL.coin.missouri.edu ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Jun 1996 09:12:10 +0000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Capt Ken Black Subject: VIRGIN QUEEN SURVIVAL RATES Hi All, My first post to this list, thank you all for your interesting topics in the past. I raised my first batch of virgins yesterday using my friend's incubator. The problem I had was the delay in introducing the queens to mini nucs. I got tied up with swarms, helping old ladies etc and ended up putting the queens in about 8 pm last night. They hatched after lunch so were unfed for up to 6 or 7 hours. I used some bees from a local swarm and made up the mini nucs before going to collect the virgins. About 1.5 hrs later I slipped them in to the closed mini nuc boxes, on checking this morning 8:00am the nucs are still roaring! I haven't released the bees yet. Any advice on what I am doing wrong and perhaps a better method. Regards Ken Black - Ken Black " ` Bay Tree Cottage " ` 76 East St, Fritwell _- -_`-_|'\ /` Bicester, _/ / / -' `~()() Oxfordshire, England. OX6 9QF \_\ _ /\-._/\/ 00441869345725 Fax:00441869256678 / | | email: kblack.lisa.mod@gtnet.gov.uk '` ^ ^ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Jun 1996 07:31:08 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Robert J. Cessac" Subject: red clover (fwd) K-B Ranch Natural Beef 2362 St. Rt. O Higbee, MO. 65257 816-248-5201 rcessac@mail.coin.missouri.edu ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Sun, 2 Jun 1996 21:09:49 -0500 (CDT) From: Robert J. Cessac To: Discussion of Bee Biology Subject: red clover I am new to bee keeping and have a ranch with a fair amount of red clover in my pastures plus white clover. I have herd conflicting information on pollination of red clover by honey bees. Can someone give me the straight scoop wether honey bees pollinate and obtain nector from red clover? One says they get nector and pollinate only the later flowers in summer. Or is it they only pollinate and not get nector? Thanks Robert Cessac ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 2 Jun 1996 12:13:07 -0600 Reply-To: allend@internode.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Allen Dick Organization: The Beekeepers Subject: Re: Bees ignoring sugar syrup Comments: To: P-O Gustafsson > I'm also using vinegar in the feed. One liter of 12% vinegar to 600 > kg sugar /400 liter water. Prevent fermentation and mould in the > feeders. Bees don't mind, even heard somewhere that it's good for > them. Interesting. At one point, many years ago, recommendations were that a small amount of tartaric acid be added to sugar syrup to invert the sucrose. Articles I have read indicates that this practice tends to cause dysentary and is no longer recommended. Moreover, acid processed syrups are known to cause bee mortality. I wonder if acetic acid -- the main ingredient in vinegar -- other than water, is also detrimental? Regards Allen W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper VE6CFK RR#1, Swalwell, Alberta Canada T0M 1Y0 Internet:dicka@cuug.ab.ca & allend@internode.net Honey. Bees, & Art ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Jun 1996 08:40:21 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Wayne Clifford Subject: Re: scuba diving bees In-Reply-To: I caught a swarm a couple weeks ago and started feeding it syrup with a > division board feeder. They were taking the syrup real fast and making > nice white comb just like a swarm. > > When I went to fill the feeder again there were many bees at the bottom of > the feeder licking the remaining syrup up. I poured the syrup on top of > them expecting them to float or crawl to the top. Most of them did just > that. > > Ispent at least 2 minutes looking for eggs etc., and before closing the > hive looked in the feeder. There were still some bees crawling on the > screened sides of the feeder fully submerged walking up and down the > screen in a very undistressed manner. > > Can a bee hold its breath? Or had an air bubble formed over each spiracle? > How did they do that? > > Eventually they came to the top and went about their business. > > Ann Dougherty > Kirkland, WA. usa > Ann, Your second guess is best. Many insects that spend at least part of their time submerged will carry an air bubble, trapped around their hairs, down with them. It is the surface tension of the liquid that makes the difference. You can demonstrate surface tension by placing a drop of water on a piece of paper and time how long it takes to soak in, then place a second drop and introduce a little dish soap on the end of a tooth pick and see the difference. The soap breaks the surface tension of watter. This is how it helps water be a more effective cleaner. Try a piece of brown paper bag rather than a paper towel. Have fun... ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Wayne Clifford | Phone (360) 427-9670 X-581 Technical Administrator | FAX (360) 427-7798 Mason County Department of Health Services | PO Box 1666 Shelton, WA 98584 | USA wrc@inpho.hs.washington.edu | ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ""Nurture your mind with great thoughts, for you will never go any higher than you think." Benjamin Disraeli ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Jun 1996 12:28:26 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: David Eyre Subject: Re: Queen Breeding Roy Nettlebeck wrote >come the ones with cells that were void, about 100 or more on a frame of >capped brood.The ones with the solid brood frames , had a higher >population of workers.That is why we want good queens.The queens came >from the same breeder and in fact from the same queen Mother. That could >be a problem right there.But the drones have a function in this also. >the slow ones. The ones with holes are not more than 20% behind the ones >with solid brood patterns.Maybe I just want perfection and when I see it >I want it in all my hives. > I thought that it was just a gene problem before and it may still be one? > I would like to know what the strongest factor that drives egg >production is? This is a lack of diversity. A good breeder will have numerous lines of bees to choose from, and once the queen mother is chosen then all related lines should be removed from the breeding yard. Or the area could be flooded by offspring(drones) from the drone mother. Dr. Medhat Nasr did some work on close relation mating. It was established that the closer the relationship to sister-brother then the more the pattern disintegrated into this shot gun look. I would suggest your breeder leaves a lot to be desired. **************************************************** * David Eyre 9 Progress Drive, Unit 2, * * The Beeworks, Orillia, Ontario, L3V 6H1. * * beeworks@muskoka.net 705-326-7171 * * http://www.muskoka.net/~beeworks * * Agents for: E H Thorne & B J Sherriff UK. * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Jun 1996 12:10:51 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: WILLIAM G LORD Subject: queen evaluation I have just finished pulling off honey and making increase and have some observations to make on queens. I purchased 50 queens this spring and the cold wet spring delayed my shipment by 3 weeks. I suspect that 15 percent of the queens have ended up being drone layers. I have thought about writing a note to the queen supplier but I suppose they were between a rock and a hard place this spring and simply mailed out some duds. Still, money is money and queens should be queens. I requeened all 150 of my hives last summer with queens from 6 different sources. I suspect that 60 percent were supeceded before fall, and I lavished drugs and miticides and feed on them. I know that there are still feral colonies here because of the black drones I am now seeing in those suposedly Italian hives that were requeened less that a year ago. I have form some definite opinions on different queen sources, namely at least 2 to avoid, and a resolution to buy my queens from as close a geographical source as possible. Bill Lord Louisburg, NC, USA -- WILLIAM G LORD E-Mail : wglord@franklin Internet: wglord@franklin.ces.ncsu.edu Phone : 9194963344 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 31 May 1996 15:03:03 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "James C. Bach" Subject: Longevity of pollen on bees; and other items. Ana Maria Quiniones - 1 May 1996. Some years ago I cooperated with a researcher here working on the possible cross pollination of California almonds with Washington cherries and thus transmitting Rugose Mosaic Virus. There may be as little as two weeks time between almond bloom or prune bloom in California and cherry bloom in Washington. I collected samples of bees, over time, from the pollen combs in the brood nest of hives returning from California. The researcher would wash the bees in a buffer, centrifuge the material, and check it for pollen grains. He found that almond, and or prune pollen, could be found for as long as ten days after hive removal from California, and placed into a pollen dearth in Washington. You can't tell clean bees from observation. The buffer turns yellow with pollen from bees which appear clean to the eye. He also found that the bee pollen from almonds could be used to pollinate cherries in Washington, but would result in deformed pollen tube growth. This caused us to set a minimum of two weeks as a prudent hiatus in the use of the same colonies for research purposes. Subject: CHALKBROOD, DISEASES, AND THEIR CONTROL: I have become concerned the last ten years because we as beekeepers are seeking foreign substance controls for use in bee hives. We want to add so-called biological and chemicals to our hives to control pests and or predators. All of these substances are foreign to nature's bee nests, except in those minute quantities resulting from air or environmental pollution. And I am not yet aware of significant scientific evidence that these materials do not have some quantifiable impact on the colony or brood rearing. With chalkbrood (CB), the definitive work has been done some years ago by Dr. Martha Gilliam of the USDA Bee Lab in Tucson Arizona. She found that many products reduced the number of cells of CB in a hive because they appeared to trigger colony hive cleaning behavior, causing the bees to remove the CB mummies. This work has been published in the American Bee Journal and other places. Until we can define a "clean hive" and then determine the impact of the materials we are adding to the hives on brood rearing, nurse bees, and adults, the potential for residues in comb, and the possible impact to the environment of the colony, I think we should be cautious about developing chemicals for use in bee hives. Even harmless or innocuous materials, to us, may have quite different impacts on the bee colony. I would rather that we develop more quality standards for producing bees which would result in good hive cleaners, such as has been done by at least one breeder in California. More later. Subject: SWARMING/QUEEN SUBSTANCE: (M.R. Thompson, Joel Sovotes, Roy, etc.) My experience and observation suggests that queen substance in a hive is quite high in the first three deep boxes of a hive(4.5 westerns) where the queen is restricted to the bottom two deep brood nests. This would appear to be confirmed by the fact that a top queen is readily accepted in a top split made in a fourth deep box, but that the acceptance goes down if she is placed in the third box. The acceptance remains high if the bottom queen is restricted to the bottom brood nest with a queen excluder, and the top queen is put in the third deep box. The measuring of queen substance by observation gets difficult when bee behavior is influenced by slow honey flows, bee management by man, and several other issues. I think we need more information to accurately determine the real causes behind some of the bee behavior we see. That is one reason persons who answer questions on bee topics must give general responses instead of specific ones. Subject: WINTER LOSS: I define winter loss as colony demise caused by prolonged periods of cold weather which prevents bees from moving to ample winter stores in their hive. Any other losses during the winter period are not winter loss but are caused by queen loss, HBTM, Varroa, bee management, bee genetics, improper or inadequate mite treatments or, one or more of the above. The number of hives lost over the winter time, as quoted in BEE-L are thus suspicious. Beekeepers here tell me that they combine or destroy 5 to 15% of their hives in the fall because they are "dinks." Such colonies may be caused by several of the above factors. Then they tell me that they lose another 10 to 60% by February when the bees are put into the almonds in California. Beekeepers here have been reporting total losses from September thru January at an average of 50%, each of the last three years! Subject: PESTICIDES, ENFORCEMENT, STATUTES, REGULATIONS: Every beekeeper who may experience bee losses from pesticides should acquire copies of their state statutes and regulations on the use of pesticides. The language used in these laws are the basis of enforcement by state personnel. The interpretation of the language may cause what is determined by beekeepers to be a lack of enforcement. The language in the statute is usually written quite broad. In regulations, sometimes called rules, the language may be more specific because regulations are used to implement the intent of the legislature written in statute. Beekeepers also need to be more familiar with the language on chemical labels. This language may be interpreted different ways by different persons. The label as a whole is enforceable, and must be read as a whole. Any statement such as: DO NOT APPLY THIS PRODUCT etc. means just what it says - do not apply- in the manner prescribed. But other sections such as the warning statment are meant to compliment the do not apply statement. For instance: WARNING: This product is highly toxic to bees if applied to or allowed to drift onto bloom where bees are foraging. DO NOT APPLY this product to blooming crops or weeds when bees are foraging. Sometimes a residue period also appears on the label (eg. 1-3 days). When these two statements are read together they mean that because of the high impact to bees the chemical should not be allowed to land on or drift to blooming crops or weeds where bees will be foraging during the residue life of the product under the weather conditions to be experienced. Be involved with your department of agriculture in every aspect of the interaction of bees with agricultural chemicals, from the writing of the statute and regulation, to the enforcement proceedures, to evaluating the success of the efforts. by James C. Bach WA State Apiarist ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Jun 1996 16:45:09 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jim Moore DTN276-9448 ogo1/e17 508-496-9448 Subject: Q: Hiving swarm - escapade and questions I'm a beginner and I got a call about a swarm. I live in eastern Massachusetts. I got the swarm, in a manner of speaking, and have hived it, but have a number of 'beginner' questions. First a recap of what was done. Please comment on any corrections regarding technique. It was a comedy of minor errors I expect, with more to follow but I'm having the time of my life! I arrived at about 10 am. with a cardboard box (no extra hive available), a bed sheet, my outfit and tools that I store/carry in a 6 gallon galvanized "trash" can that has a handle and top. Poorly equipped to say the least. The swarm was about 20 feet up in a large spuce tree. My estimate is about 6-8 pounds of bees. The homeowners had a extension pruning pole, (what a break!). I was curious and excited, never having seen a swarm before, and wanting to give it a go, though I was not fully prepared. Later upon inspecting he bulk of the bees looked to be Italians with some darker bees mixed in. I decided to use the pole with the can attached and a pillow case in the can. I pruned some little branches to get a clear shot at the bees. I hoisted the can up under the swarn and gave it a good trust upward. 60% if the bees went into the pillowcase and 10% fell down around me. The rest were still attached to the branch or in the air. I tied off the pillow case and place in in my car. I waited for the bees to reform, got another pillow case and did the whole operation again. I got about half of the remaining bees. I tied off the second pillow case and tied it to a small step ladder. The flying bees soon were clustering on the pillow case (100's of them). I assumed at this point the queen was in the second pillowcase (not yet verified. I waited a few minutes and then decided to place the second bag with bees attached inside the first. (Not the best idea). I had better than 95% of the bees at this point. Drove home, less that 5 minutes, and realized upon getting home that the inside second bag was probably overheating. I had no empty hive parts ready so decide to temporarily place the bees in the two empty screened package containers after first spraying the pillowcase with water to cool them down. I placed the bees from the first pillow case in one package, and the second in the other. The second group looked a little sweaty and dopey. I placed the packages close to each other in the shade. As it turns out the cover on package two had an opening and over the next hour or so a large number got out and massed on the outside of the first package along with the bees that didn't get into the packages. Now was the queen in the first package? Was the queen originally on the outside of the second pillowcase or in the first pillow case? I don't know. Now to get a hive ready. I have two hives, both with two deeps. One is not as vigorus so I decided to borrow the second deep. It had foundation that had barely been touched by the bees. I cobbled together a bottom board and hive cover and planned to take one frame of uncapped brood from the vigorous hive but under the momentum of wanting to get the bees hived I didn't. A good plan but badly executed I think. I placed a feeder box on top of the deep (another mistake here, I should have removed a bunch on the frames first) and shook the bees into the frames. I put the cover over the feeder box and let everything settle down. My hives are arranged at the edge of a deck about 6 feet off the ground so I didn't consider having the bees walk in. I think it would have been a much better arrangement. Later upon peeking under the cover the cluster was hanging from the cover, not all down in the frames. That is the current state of the hive. It is raining today so they are stuck for the moment in the hive. I rigged up and entrance feeder to help them along. Finally, at dusk, when I returned the pillow cases, and up in the tree was a very small (about two fists in size) cluser. Was the queen still in the tree? Now the questions: Will bees cluster even without a queen? Will the bees left behind cluster back on the branch without a queen? How and when should I get the bees down in the brood chamber? If I don't have the queen how will the bees behave? If I don't have the queen what is the method for putting the bees into my less vigorous hive? Should I treat for Varroa or see if I have resitant bees. I assumed the since I saw what seemed to be more than one race in the swarm that the queen was a locally mated queen. If I don't treat the swam hive am I putting my other two hives at greater risk? What medications should I supply. The lessons I've learned are: Have an extra bottom board, cover, and deep on standbye. Purchase an extension pruning pole. I worked very well. Bring my own pillow case or cases. Have a spray bottle with my equipment for cooling the bees. Bees overheat easily. Rethink what to do when the bees cluster on the outside of the pillow case. Granted if I had the hive ready I could have hived them right there. Thanks in advance for any responses. Jim Moore ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Jun 1996 23:12:12 GMT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Franklin D. Humphrey Sr." Subject: Re: red clover At 02:09 AM 6/3/96 +0000, you wrote: >I am new to bee keeping and have a ranch with a fair amount of red >clover in my pastures plus white clover. I have herd conflicting >information on pollination of red clover by honey bees. Can someone give >me the straight scoop wether honey bees pollinate and obtain nector from >red clover? One says they get nector and pollinate only the >later flowers in summer. Or is it they only pollinate and not get >nector? Thanks Robert Cessac > >K-B Ranch >Natural Beef > >2362 St. Rt. O >Higbee, MO. 65257 >816-248-5201 > >rcessac@mail.coin.missouri.edu > When I was growing up in East Texas in the early 50s, we had red or crimson clover mixed in with the grasses in our hay fields. We kept 8 to 10 colonies of bees in gums and got a good honey crop from them. There was no other types of clover anywhere around. Our bees didn't know that they couldn't make a honey crop from red clover so they did it anyway. Now understand that these were mostly the black German bees and were very defensive. We had to replant the clover about every 5 years because they were not producing enough seed to sustain a good stand. In the late 50s a migratory beekeeper started bringing a tractor trailer load of bees and putting them near the hayfields. I don't know how much honey he produced but he always gave us a two gallons after staying only two weeks. We no longer had to replant the clover and it spread all over the farm. Now I am in the same quandary as you. All the experts tell us that Italian bees cannot work red or crimson clover because their tongue is to short. However my experience tells me they are doing something for the clover and maybe the clover is doing something for them. Frank Humphrey beekeeper@worldnet.att.net Franklin D. Humphrey Sr. beekeeper@wornet.att.net ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Jun 1996 18:47:51 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Roy Nettlebeck Subject: Re: Queen Breeding In-Reply-To: <199606031630.MAA10604@segwun.muskoka.net> On Mon, 3 Jun 1996, David Eyre wrote: > Roy Nettlebeck wrote > >come the ones with cells that were void, about 100 or more on a frame of > >capped brood.The ones with the solid brood frames , had a higher > >population of workers.That is why we want good queens.The queens came > >from the same breeder and in fact from the same queen Mother. That could > >be a problem right there.But the drones have a function in this also. > > >the slow ones. The ones with holes are not more than 20% behind the ones > >with solid brood patterns.Maybe I just want perfection and when I see it > >I want it in all my hives. > > I thought that it was just a gene problem before and it may still be one? > > I would like to know what the strongest factor that drives egg > >production is? > > This is a lack of diversity. A good breeder will have numerous lines of bees > to choose from, and once the queen mother is chosen then all related lines > should be removed from the breeding yard. Or the area could be flooded by > offspring(drones) from the drone mother. > Dr. Medhat Nasr did some work on close relation mating. It was > established that the closer the relationship to sister-brother then the more > the pattern disintegrated into this shot gun look. > I would suggest your breeder leaves a lot to be desired. > Hi David, I'm wondering if there is a breeder that gets 90% or better , solid brood patterns.I would like to know if anyone has had a consistant source of solid laying queens.There has been plenty of work done on the genetic factor of egg laying. Dr. Rinderers book, Bee Genetics and Breeding, goes in depth into sex determination and mating designs. I wonder how many follow it in practice.. Best regards Roy ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Jun 1996 19:32:49 -0600 Reply-To: allend@internode.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Allen Dick Organization: The Beekeepers Subject: Re: Longevity of pollen on bees; and other items. Hi James, Glad to see you are here (at last). I have enjoyed your comments on many subjects and appreciate your unique perspectives. And I'm glad to see you wading into these issues. > He also found that the bee pollen from almonds could be used to > pollinate cherries in Washington, but would result in deformed > pollen tube growth. Almond pollen can set seed in cherries??? Hmm. This is really news to me. Don't get me wrong -- I know *nothing* about such things, but I sort of thought that plants were like animals, in that only closely related individuals could interbreed. Tell me more. > I have become concerned the last ten years because we as beekeepers > are seeking foreign substance controls for use in bee hives. We > want to add so-called biological and chemicals to our hives to > control pests and or predators. All of these substances are foreign > to nature's bee nests, except in those minute quantities resulting > from air or environmental pollution. > > And I am not yet aware of significant scientific evidence that these > materials do not have some quantifiable impact on the colony or > brood rearing. You will find that many agree on this. > I define winter loss as colony demise caused by prolonged periods of > cold weather which prevents bees from moving to ample winter stores > in their hive. We had exactly this occur this year for the first time in many: 45% loss where 15% was normal. The 'ample' stores (which we weighed in the fall) proved less than ample this year for outdoors colonies. Indoor wintering proved to be easier on stores, but the long confinement caused increased mortality over normal. Even on balmy Vancouver Island, losses of 40% are reported due to dampness and confinement. Regards Allen W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper VE6CFK RR#1, Swalwell, Alberta Canada T0M 1Y0 Internet:dicka@cuug.ab.ca & allend@internode.net Honey. Bees, & Art ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 4 Jun 1996 14:13:36 GMT+1200 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Nick Wallingford Organization: Bay of Plenty Polytechnic Subject: Re: red clover > >I am new to bee keeping and have a ranch with a fair amount of red > >clover in my pastures plus white clover. I have herd conflicting > >information on pollination of red clover by honey bees. Can someone give > >me the straight scoop wether honey bees pollinate and obtain nector from > >red clover? One says they get nector and pollinate only the > >later flowers in summer. Or is it they only pollinate and not get > >nector? Four species of bumble bees were introduced into New Zealand in the 1880s specifically to ensure red clover pollination. While bumbles are good pollinators, honey bees can and do collect nectar/pollen and pollinate red clovers. I recall some research that did pollinator counts on red clover that showed honey bees to be the predominant pollinator. (\ Nick Wallingford {|||8- home nickw@wave.co.nz (/ work nw1@boppoly.ac.nz NZ Beekeeping http://www.wave.co.nz/pages/nickw/nzbkpg.htm ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 4 Jun 1996 07:09:25 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Joel Govostes Subject: Bees crawling on ground Lately in my home yard I'm noticing quite a few bees crawling on the ground through the grass. They are sometimes drones. The behavior is hurried and they appear disoriented, sometimes running in crazed circles if they make it onto a smooth surface. At night you can hear them giving short little buzzes as they try to make it through the ground cover. Otherwise the colonies seem fine and are very active. There were lots of ground-crawling groggy bees a few years ago when the tracheal mites first appeared, and the "K-wing" symptom was obvious. Now I'm not noticing any odd wing positioning with these bees. This is the only yard where I had 100% winter survival. (I have patties in all the hives, but have never used menthol.) Does this CRAWLING-about behavior sound familiar to anyone? We've discovered that we must watch where we step if not wearing shoes! Thanks muchly, JWG ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 4 Jun 1996 06:29:11 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Whitney S. Cranshaw" Subject: Survival of Varroa Does any one know how long Varroa mites can survive in a non-occupied hive. The question concerns how long previously infested equipment needs to be stored unused to ensure that all varroa life stages have died out. Thank you for your attention to this. Whitney Cranshaw wcransha@ceres.agsci.colostate.edu ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 4 Jun 1996 14:55:28 +0200 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: F Hogenboom Subject: sugar syrup and thymol Hi all, Last week I bought, second hand, "Background to beekeeping", written by Allen C. Waine, 1955, London, 118 pages and 16 pages with nice illustrations from David Hutter. It is a very clear textbook on beekeeping for the beginner. Two citations: 1." Various additions to the sugar syrup have been suggested from time to time but only thymol gives any definite advantage. Thymol is an antiseptic and has the power of preserving sugar solution against mould and fermentation indefinitely; if bees are slow in taking their food ( as they are in cold weather) syrup containing thymol will not spoil. Thymol is not strange or distasteful to bees since it occurs naturally in nectar from plants of the mint family. The recommended quantity of thymol is two-fifths of a grain per pound of sugar used. A convenient way of measuring this is to get from a chemist a 2% solution of thymol in surgical spirit and to add one teaspoonful of this to every pint of syrup". 2 " Some beekeepers also feed their bees in the spring with the idea of simulating an early nectar flow and encouraging the bees to begin breeding earlier than they would normally. It is very doubtful if this practice has any advantages provided that the bees have adequate stores within the hive". ad 1: Many other beekeeping books, written in the first half of this century, mentioned the use of thymol in sugar syrup. for example: Schotman (after E.B.Wedmore's Manual); De Roever; Ed Alphandery etc. For some reason it went out of use. ad 2: Just what we always learned in the Netherlands and it is beekeeper's false economy to economize on sugar in the fall. francois e-mail F.Hogenboom.Pharm@med.vu.nl ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 4 Jun 1996 11:15:18 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Aaron Morris Subject: PAM: vegetable spray or silver bullet? So, last night I'm assembling what seemed like a bazillion frames, by hand, using a small tack hammer. After bending more frame nails than I can count I got to thinking that I would bend a lot fewer nails if they were lubricated. So i went to the pantry for some spray vegetable oil (product name PAM) and sprayed my nails, after which they just slid into the wood like a hot knife through butter. The drudgery of assembling frames let my mind wander, and I got to wondering how the first person who put Crisco (solid vegetable shortening) in a hive came up with the idea. What was (s)he thinking? Did (s)he just get back from warehouse shopping with a ton of Crisco in a shopping bag, and lacking a better place, decide to store it in a beehive only to serendipitously discover a beneficial effect in the war against tracheal mites? Who thought this one up and how did they get the idea? And blissfully hammering away at my now PAMmed nails I couldn't help but wonder if PAM might be an effective treat- ment for tracheal mites! It certainly helped my nailing, it makes my eggs slide off the griddle, and it's not too far removed from the Crisco patties or vegetable oil soaked pa- per towels that have been discussed on this list. And it would be far more convenient! I imagined showing up with a can of PAM and quickly spraying my bees and never worrying about tracheal mites again!!! Please note, no mead was in- volved in this thought process ;) So anyway, any PAM guinea pigs out there? The main ingredi- ent is cannola oil with other natural ingredients (natural butter flavoring?). Anyone care to speculate? Wandering minds want to know.... Aaron Morris - I think, therefore I bee! ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 4 Jun 1996 13:22:38 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: David Bernard Subject: EAS Master Beekeeper Info For those of you interested in the EAS Master Beekeeper Exam contact the EAS Secretary at the following address: Loretta Surprenant EAS Secretary Box 300A County Home Road Essex, NY 12936 (518) 963-7593 or Dr. John Ambrose, who adminsters the exam at: Dr. John Ambrose North Carolina State University Box 7626 Raleigh, NC 27695-7626 (919) 515-1660 Good luck! David Bernard EAS Master Beekeeper Vice President, Maryland State Beekeepers EAS Director for Maryland Damascus, MD USA Home 301-414-2317 Work 301-496-3798 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 4 Jun 1996 12:53:38 +0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Bill Painter Subject: Re: Tracial mites(Spelling) If anyone has responeded to my question please resend as it looks like I just became active and should be able to see the mail from the Bee-L list. Thanks! > > > I am new to this list as I have just started keeping bee's (two new hives). > If this is a rehashing of old topics I apologize. > > I understand that a patty can be made to keep down tracial mites using > wintergreen. My question is would one made with pepermint work just as > well or better or not at all? If it does work does anyone have a recipe > for this? ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 4 Jun 1996 15:57:26 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: David Eyre Subject: Re: Queen Breeding >> Dr. Medhat Nasr did some work on close relation mating. It was >> established that the closer the relationship to sister-brother then the more >> the pattern disintegrated into this shot gun look. >> I would suggest your breeder leaves a lot to be desired. >> >Hi David, I'm wondering if there is a breeder that gets 90% or better , >solid brood patterns.I would like to know if anyone has had a consistant >source of solid laying queens.There has been plenty of work done on the >genetic factor of egg laying. Dr. Rinderers book, Bee Genetics and >Breeding, goes in depth into sex determination and mating designs. I >wonder how many follow it in practice.. A lot depends on where you learnt your bee keeping/queen rearing. There are some very strict rules, break them at your peril!! I believe we get 90% or better, every time. Why? because it's not just a game of numbers, we stick to the rules. It's a case of buyer beware. If the queens you buy this year have bad manners, and a poor pattern, don't buy there again. There are lots of supposed breeders who are definitely only in it for the money, and not the improvement of stock. **************************************************** * David Eyre 9 Progress Drive, Unit 2, * * The Beeworks, Orillia, Ontario, L3V 6H1. * * beeworks@muskoka.net 705-326-7171 * * http://www.muskoka.net/~beeworks * * Agents for: E H Thorne & B J Sherriff UK. * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 4 Jun 1996 16:01:41 +0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Bill Painter Subject: Re: Tracial mites(Spelling) I will send this one last time since I have not seen my question echo back to my inbasket and am not sure its made it on the list yet! > > > > I am new to this list as I have just started keeping bee's (two new > hives). > > If this is a rehashing of old topics I apologize. > > > > I understand that a patty can be made to keep down tracial mites using > > wintergreen. My question is would one made with pepermint work just as > > well or better or not at all? If it does work does anyone have a recipe > > for this? ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 Jun 1996 09:37:13 +1200 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Robert Rice Subject: sugar syrup and thymol -Reply Interesting substance thymol (5-methyl-2-isopropyl-phenol). Apparently useful for discouraging mites and other such beasts. Somewhere in my collection of bee keeping information I have a Russian paper (I think) that suggest that bees use the ratio of Thymol/Clavicol to determine suitable nectar sources. I believe this is in addition to a quick calculation that the bees do as to whether the energy derived from the nectar (sugar) source is > the energy expended in gathering the nectar from that source. Mind you if you have ever tasted Thyme honey you would know what to much thymol in the brew can do to the flavour of honey. Incidently, Thyme contains a lot of thymol hence the similarity in the name of the plant and the organic oil. I once had some thyme honey analysed using GCG for the presence of thymol and the result was < 1 ppm. I later found out that the thymol may have been conjugated to a sugar molecule and that this would make its presence invisible to a GCG under the process used to prepare the sample. I would like to have this analysis repeated again one of these days. Robert Rice. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Jun 1996 23:37:00 +0100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Haehnle/Keppler Subject: Re.: Catalogs Here are 5 addresses from Germany (there are some more): W.Seip Fax 06447 6816 Wienold Fax 06641 3060 Bienen Meissle Fax 08226 9214 Hammann Fax 06324 58543 Warenholz Fax 04331 80322 regards Andreas Haehnle ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 4 Jun 1996 21:28:21 -0300 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Stan Sandler Subject: Re: red clover Frank Humphrey wrote: >When I was growing up in East Texas in the early 50s, we had red or crimson >clover mixed in with the grasses in our hay fields. We kept 8 to 10 >colonies of bees in gums... Frank, what exactly are gums? Are they those split hollow log hives? Were they still common in the 50's? And thanks for making a man of 46 feel like an ignorant youngster :) Our most common and traditional hay mix here is 70-15-15 (timothy-red clover-alsike). The red clover really predominates the first year. The bees will work the alsike but are rarely seen on red clover in the first cut. But besides the nectar tube being very long in the first flowers, here white clover in the pastures is in bloom at the same time, and is so much more attractive. I had one group of hives last fall in an area where there was lots of second cut red clover and little else that produced quite well on it. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 Jun 1996 06:24:58 +0100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Sid Pullinger Subject: Foundation Press For those who have expressed interest, a friend has given me the following address. Herzog, D-7230 Schramberg Postfach 146 Germany The agent in England is Steele and Brodie, Beehive Works, Kilmany Road, Wormit Newport-on-Tay Fife DD6 8PG Tel. 01382 810916 _________________________________________________________________ Sid Pullinger Email : sidpul@aladdin.co.uk 36, Grange Rd Compuserve: 100343.1216@compuserve.com Alresford Hants SO24 9HF England ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 Jun 1996 07:48:05 +0000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Capt Ken Black Subject: Re: Queen Breeding At 08:57 01/06/96 -0700, you wrote: > Hello All, I was adding boxs to my bees that I srarted on April 6th of >this year and noticed something. Out of the 25 hives that I added boxs >and took a look inside , I saw a big difference in brood patterns. About >30% were solid and made me think about all the honey they will make.Then >come the ones with cells that were void, about 100 or more on a frame of >snip< Hi Roy and everyone else, I have already send details of this post to the list but I'm not sure if it got to you all, can someone out there confirm I am posting? My first post to this list, thank you all for your interesting topics in the past. I have been managing bees now for about 18 months so be nice please! Roy ref your post: I have a couple of colonies producing solid brood patterns (mainly dark european race)but they are much slower building up, ie; when other colonies were on 8 frames of brood the dark bees were on 3 or 4 but not a cell missed! I'm afraid I culled the queens as I need a really early build up for the oil seed rape. My request for help is: I raised my first batch of virgins yesterday using my friend's incubator. The problem I had was the delay in introducing the queens to mini nucs. I got tied up with swarms, helping old ladies etc and ended up putting the queens in about 8 pm last night. They hatched after lunch so were unfed for up to 6 or 7 hours. I used some bees from a local swarm and made up mini nucs before going to collect the virgins. About 1.5 hrs later I slipped them in to the closed mini nuc boxes, on checking this morning 8:00am the nucs are still roaring! I haven't released the bees yet. Any advice on what I am doing wrong and perhaps a better method. 24 hours later UPdate: Bees have now been released, I will check tonight to see if the virgins are still around, it looks like one lot have left their box and joined another around 6ft away. I have made some more minis up this time I found that taking young bees from the top super on a queen right colony works better as presumably these bees are relatively young. Regards Ken Black - Ken Black " ` Bay Tree Cottage " ` 76 East St, Fritwell _- -_`-_|'\ /` Bicester, _/ / / -' `~()() Oxfordshire, England. OX6 9QF \_\ _ /\-._/\/ 00441869345725 Fax:00441869256678 / | | email: kblack.lisa.mod@gtnet.gov.uk '` ^ ^ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 Jun 1996 00:03:52 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "David. E. Goble" Subject: Re: scuba diving bees >I caught a swarm a couple weeks ago and started feeding it syrup with a >division board feeder. They were taking the syrup real fast and making >nice white comb just like a swarm. > >When I went to fill the feeder again there were many bees at the bottom of >the feeder licking the remaining syrup up. I poured the syrup on top of >them expecting them to float or crawl to the top. Most of them did just >that. > >Ispent at least 2 minutes looking for eggs etc., and before closing the >hive looked in the feeder. There were still some bees crawling on the >screened sides of the feeder fully submerged walking up and down the >screen in a very undistressed manner. > >Can a bee hold its breath? Or had an air bubble formed over each spiracle? >How did they do that? > >Eventually they came to the top and went about their business. > >Ann Dougherty >Kirkland, WA. usa > Hi Ann, Bees are an insect or in scientific terms an invertebrate, their breathing system is similar to a crabs. As you are aware a crab can stay under water and sand. Therefore bees can for a time also stay under water, but eventually their internal food supply is affected and they die. ( So yes they can scuba dive). Thanks from : goble@eastend.com.au http://www.eastend.com.au/~goble degob1@mugc.cc.monash.ed.au ( David Goble ) American Beach Kangaroo Island South Australia ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Jun 1996 19:53:02 EDT Reply-To: gotis@evbhort.uoguelph.ca Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Gard Otis Organization: Environ. Biology & Horticulture Subject: Moving eggs and larvae A question was recently asked about whether bees move eggs and or larvae. Mark Winston and I once did a study in which we made colonies of Africanized bees queenless, then followed all events related to queen rearing and swarming. After becoming queenless, the bees constructed queen cups that were empty; following that either eggs or larvae (Mark would have the details) appeared in the cells and were reared into queens. Since the queen had been removed and females (queens) were reared, it is logical to assume that the eggs were moved by the bees. The second situation we have seen several times, in which queen cells are produced in honey supers above a queen excluder. In these cases all other brood was contained below the queen excluder, so I am fairly certain that the queen did not lay the eggs in the queen cells herself. Again it is most likely that workers moved the eggs/larvae up into the cells. It seems virtually impossible to imagine that bees would steal eggs or larvae from other colonies. There is another possibility to explain the queenless colony that got a new queen. It is well known that worker bees can lay eggs, but usually these are haploid (unfertilized) and develop into drones. One bee race, the Cape honey bee (A. mellifera capensis) is notorious for having workers that lay diploid eggs (with two sets of chromosomes). The number of chromosomes gets halved in the formation of the egg, but then a polar body with one set of chromosomes fuses with the egg nucleus to form a diploid nucleus that is analagous to a fertilized egg, and the bees can rear females from these. It turns out this physiological adaptation is present at low frequency in other bee races. I believe it was W.C. Roberts or O. Mackensen discovered that 1-2% of colonies of other bee races, in the absence of brood from which to rear a queen, would still eventually become queen-right, apparently through the production of diploid worker eggs. Hope this may clarify the situation somewhat. Dr. Gard W. Otis Dept. of Environmental Biology University of Guelph Guelph, Ontario Canada N1G 2W1 gotis@evbhort.uoguelph.ca ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 4 Jun 1996 08:26:44 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ted Fischer Subject: Re: Bees crawling on ground REGARDING RE>Bees crawling on ground JWG writes: "Lately in my home yard I'm noticing quite a few bees crawling on the ground through the grass. They are sometimes drones. The behavior is hurried and they appear disoriented, sometimes running in crazed circles if they make it onto a smooth surface. At night you can hear them giving short little buzzes as they try to make it through the ground cover. Otherwise the colonies seem fine and are very active. There were lots of ground-crawling groggy bees a few years ago when the tracheal mites first appeared, and the "K-wing" symptom was obvious. Now I'm not noticing any odd wing positioning with these bees. This is the only yard where I had 100% winter survival. (I have patties in all the hives, but have never used menthol.) Does this CRAWLING-about behavior sound familiar to anyone? We've discovered that we must watch where we step if not wearing shoes! " This sounds like varroa to me. I had a lot of that kind of behavior late last summer, followed by a dramatic population crash and loss of many hives. I hope I'm wrong, and that there will be a more positive explanation for such behavior. You mention having put in patties, which should have taken care of tracheal mites, but as far as I know, they don't work for varroa. Have you put in Apistan strips? If not, it might already be too late, if my experience of last summer is a guide. If you have, then I think there must be another explanation for what you're seeing. Maybe you could catch some of the bees on the ground and examine them for the presence of adult varroa mites around the bases of their wings and legs. These mites are very annoying to the bees, who will try anything to dislodge them and get some relief. Ted Fischer ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 4 Jun 1996 09:49:12 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jo Anne Kelch Subject: Sting treatment? What's the recommended initial treatment for multiple bee stings? ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 4 Jun 1996 09:42:54 +0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Bill Painter Subject: Tracial mites(Spelling) I am new to this list as I have just started keeping bee's (two new hives). If this is a rehashing of old topics I apologize. I understand that a patty can be made to keep down tracial mites using wintergreen. My question is would one made with pepermint work just as well or better or not at all? If it does work does anyone have a recipe for this? ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 4 Jun 1996 13:52:50 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ted Fischer Subject: Re: Tracial mites(sp) REGARDING RE>Tracial mites(sp) Bill Painter wrote: > I understand that a patty can be made to keep down tracial mites using > wintergreen. My question is would one made with pepermint work just as > well or better or not at all? If it does work does anyone have a recipe > for this? Actually, all that is necessary is a mixture of vegetable shortening and sugar. The oils seem to coat the bee enough to make her unsuitable for the tracheal mite. I always use a commercially prepared mixture, also containing terramycin, called Terrapatty. This controls both AFB and EFB as well as the tracheal mite. I think that the recipe for the sugar/shortening patty was one three pound can of shortening and a five pound sack of sugar, well mixed with a kitchen beater. To this can be added one small packet of TM25 terramycin, if you want. I just take an ice cream scoop and put one to four scoops (depending on colony size) between hive bodies or on top of the upper hive body. Omit the terramycin if using during the honey flow. Before the ease of using this patty became known, many beekeepers used to put a few ounces of menthol crystals, contained in a screen or plastic bag, into the hive to control tracheal mite. The bees absolutely hate the smell of this and propolize very heavily around the container to wall it off from the rest of the hive. Removing this mess with the heavy mint smell was a real bummer, in my opinion. I'm glad we don't have to fool with it any more. Ted Fischer ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 4 Jun 1996 13:58:40 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ted Fischer Subject: Re: Survival of varroa REGARDING RE>Survival of varroa Whitney Cranshaw writes: "Does any one know how long Varroa mites can survive in a non-occupied hive. The question concerns how long previously infested equipment needs to be stored unused to ensure that all varroa life stages have died out." I don't believe that there is any evidence at all that varroa mites are able to live without the bees for more than a few hours. Therefore you don't have to worry about sterilization of hive equipment because of this pest. Just be sure that the equipment is free of AFB. Ted Fischer ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 Jun 1996 10:17:49 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ted Fischer Subject: Re: Scuba diving bees REGARDING RE>Scuba diving bees First Ann Dougherty writes: >I caught a swarm a couple weeks ago and started feeding it syrup with a >division board feeder. They were taking the syrup real fast and making >nice white comb just like a swarm. > >When I went to fill the feeder again there were many bees at the bottom of >the feeder licking the remaining syrup up. I poured the syrup on top of >them expecting them to float or crawl to the top. Most of them did just >that. > >Ispent at least 2 minutes looking for eggs etc., and before closing the >hive looked in the feeder. There were still some bees crawling on the >screened sides of the feeder fully submerged walking up and down the >screen in a very undistressed manner. > >Can a bee hold its breath? Or had an air bubble formed over each spiracle? >How did they do that? > >Eventually they came to the top and went about their business. Then Dave Goble replies: "Bees are an insect or in scientific terms an invertebrate, their breathing system is similar to a crabs. As you are aware a crab can stay under water and sand. Therefore bees can for a time also stay under water, but eventually their internal food supply is affected and they die. ( So yes they can scuba dive)." The comparison of bees and crabs is misleading. Sure, they both are arthropods, but that is beside the point. Crabs, lobsters, etc, are water dwellers, which breathe with gills. Bees are not, and are equipped with spiracles leading to tracheal tubes which deliver air (oxygen) to each body cell directly, as Ann recognizes in her original post. I think she had the right idea in the first place, that small bubbles of air were carried down into the fluid with the bee. Ted Fischer ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 Jun 1996 11:14:35 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Gerry Visel Subject: Sting treatment? -Reply Jo Anne Kelch asks: "What's the recommended initial treatment for multiple bee stings?" Say ouch (or other appropriate expletive.) I think the most important thing is to scrape the stinger out with your hive tool or fingernail. This minimizes the injected venom. After that, I use baking soda paste. Other ideas? Gerry Visel GCVisel@SNDS.COM phone: (815) 226-6620 fax: (815) 394-5438 or -2827 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 Jun 1996 09:43:58 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Kriston M. Bruland" Subject: Re: Tracial mites(Spelling) In-Reply-To: Bill Painter "Tracial mites(Spelling)" (Jun 4, 9:42am) On Jun 4, 9:42am, Bill Painter wrote: > Subject: Tracial mites(Spelling) > I am new to this list as I have just started keeping bee's (two new hives). > If this is a rehashing of old topics I apologize. > > I understand that a patty can be made to keep down tracial mites using > wintergreen. My question is would one made with pepermint work just as well > or better or not at all? If it does work does anyone have a recipe for > this? >-- End of excerpt from Bill Painter Also, has anyone tried using pennyroyal oil or extract on either variety or mite? My wife's father was a veterinarian and he used pennyroyal oil for years to remove ear mites from dogs and cats. One drop in each ear every few days for a couple weeks completely cures ear mites in our dogs. I haven't experimented with any mint species oils in my hives but pennyroyal will be my first choice when I do. I'd be very interested in the results if someone else on Bee-L has already tried this! Kris Bruland Member of Mt. Baker Beekeepers Association Bellingham, Washington U.S.A. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 Jun 1996 11:45:46 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Bruce Kemp Subject: patties Hi, I am new to the list. There seems to be quite a few of us. I have been into bees for a year now and live in Virginia in the USA. I understand there is quite a varroa mite problem here they carry a virus that has wiped out most of the hives around here. I lost all of the 7 hives I had last year. How wide-spread is this problem? Is the varroa the only cause? Now I have found a hive in a tree and have been sapping out workers with a funnel and setting a brood chamber with a new queen next to the funnel so the workers drift over and join her. I then take the hive off 10 miles where they will live. I let the hive recover and repeat the process. I have put in Apistan strips, 2 per box, hanging along side of the frames. I don't know how to treat for trachael mites and what patties are. Can someone enlighten me? I want to do this right. I live on this farm of 500 acres that had 6 hive stacks that had not been touched for about 15 years. I have been trying to save them from this virus mess and get into bees myself. The bees are very vigorous. They build and fill comb quickly. So to summarize my questions: 1. Is the virus wide-spread? 2. Do other things cause the virus besides varroa? 3. What are patties? 4. What to do about trachael mites? 5. Any suggestions on building more hives out of this tree hive? Thanks a lot, this is a very interesting discussion group. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 Jun 1996 13:40:28 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "James C. King" Subject: Re: Sting treatment? -Reply >Jo Anne Kelch asks: >"What's the recommended initial treatment for multiple bee stings?" > >Say ouch (or other appropriate expletive.) > >I think the most important thing is to scrape the stinger out with your hive >tool or fingernail. This minimizes the injected venom. After that, I use >baking soda paste. > >Other ideas? >Gerry Visel >GCVisel@SNDS.COM >phone: (815) 226-6620 >fax: (815) 394-5438 or -2827 I have found that an effective treatment after removal of the stinger is: to make a water slurry with Adolph's 100% Natural Tenderizer and to rub the slurry over the stung area for a few minutes. This will greatly reduced the localized discomfort. Adolph's contains papain which I believe to be the active ingredient. Regards, Jim King ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 Jun 1996 11:43:15 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jerry J Bromenshenk Subject: Plastic pollen trap grid and Kid's Page on WWW Hi: 1) I am still looking for a supplier in U.S. or Europe who can provide us with a plastic screen for pollen traps - can't use wire, sheds zinc, contaminates our trace element samples. Can anyone help with name and fax of potential suppliers? 2) We have added some games, puzzles, trivia facts, coloring book pictures of bees, and close-up photos of bees to our web page. We also provide a rich assortment of links to education pages for kids. Many thanks to the honey board for supplying some of the materials. Also, we again encourage people to provide materials for posting on this page. The focus is on interactive programs for kids that can be run on the WWW or downloaded for use. Best Regards Jerry J. Bromenshenk The University of Montana Missoula, MT jjbmail@selway.umt.edu http://grizzly.umt.edu/biology/bees P.S. I hope to meet some of you at the Maryland Beekeepers State Meeting,next week, June 14-15, University of Maryland, Catonsville, MD. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 Jun 1996 15:25:30 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "(Kevin & Shawna Roberts)" Subject: Re: Bees ignoring sugar syrup Comments: To: allend@internode.net ...I wonder if acetic acid -- the main ingredient in vinegar -- other than water, is also detrimental?... Allen, Freidrich Ruttner wrote a number of years ago that lactic acid could be used to invert sucrose for bees. He warned against using "other acids," but didn't list the ones he thought were harmful. Kevin ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 Jun 1996 15:26:30 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "(Kevin & Shawna Roberts)" Subject: Re: Q: Hiving swarm - escapade and questions > Will bees cluster even without a queen? Yes. They cluster for the company of other bees. > Will the bees left behind cluster back on the branch without a >queen? Yes. They will gather where she last was, and mope. When we used to pick up swarms, half the time we'd get a call the next day, "There's another swarm! In exactly the same place! It's as big as the last one!" -- Translated: it's a teacup full of bees moping. > How and when should I get the bees down in the brood chamber? My guess would be to take the feed box off and shake the bees into the frames again, then close up the box so there is no empty space between the lid and the frames. Can you use a boardman or some other type of feeder that will allow you to do this? > If I don't have the queen how will the bees behave? They might abscond. But they might abscond even without the queen. Or they might make themselves at home and eventually become laying workers if you don't provide them with a queen (or the means to make their own.) The brood would have been a good idea. It would have drawn them into the brood chamber right away, and they would have had a chance to make their own queen if the queen was lost. > If I don't have the queen what is the method for putting the bees >into my less vigorous hive? If they accept their new home, just put the box on the less vigorous hive. Separate the two boxes with newspaper, so that the bees are separated for a while until they've torn up the newspaper themselves (cut a few slits in the newspaper to help get them started). By the time they meet each other face to face, they'll be used to each others smell. After about a week, you can open up the hive and remove any paper they haven't carried off. > Should I treat for Varroa or see if I have resitant bees. I assumed >the since I saw what seemed to be more than one race in the swarm that the >queen was a locally mated queen. Your call. I'd treat. Others wouldn't. You have to decide whether you want to risk losing the hive in the interest of science. (I prefer breeding for hygienic behavior in conjunction with treating.) > If I don't treat the swam hive am I putting my other two hives at >greater risk? Maybe. > What medications should I supply. Apistan for varroa and Terramycin for foulbrood. (After all, you don't know where these girls have been!) > if I had the hive ready I could have hived them right there. Most of the beekeepers I know (including me) don't bother with a hive to get a swarm. We either use a cardboard box (with airholes poked in it and a closeable entrance that the bees can use to come and go from) or a 5-gallon bucket (the guy who uses a 5-gallon bucket puts the swarm in the bucket then covers the top of the bucket with pantyhose so the bees can't get out but can get plenty of air). Boxes and buckets are a lot lighter, easier to carry, and easier to seal up without suffocating/overheating the bees. Then when we get home, we spray them with some sugar water and dump them into the hive (or you can let them walk in by themselves--I think either way works). You did fine collecting your swarm. What I would have done differently after collecting the bees in the pillowcase was dump all of them into the cardboard box immediately, instead of trying to move them around in pillowcases. Or just used the can without the pillowcase, then covered the can top with screen (or pantyhose!). That way you wouldn't have had to move them into the screen packages, either. Since it was so close to your house, you could have left the cardboard box (with the entrance open) under the tree, with the bees you had caught in it (if the homeowners approved). The remaining bees would have found the boxed bees, and either everyone would have made themselves at home or they all would have absconded. In the evening, you could have come back, closed the entrance, and walked off with a cardboard box containing all the bees from the swarm. (or had an empty box for your pains...) One general hint: swarms tend to be attracted to old combs. If you put old comb in the hive, they will be more likely to stay. Ditto if you put old comb in the cardboard box or bucket for them to cluster on. A month ago, we found a swarm (ok, I admit it, 5 swarms) at a location of ours. We didn't have hives, but we had some supers. We put 2 supers on the ground next to each swarm, propped the bottom super up so that there was a gap between it and the ground, shook as many bees as we could into the top super, and covered it with a burlap sack (held down with a couple rocks). The rest of the bees walked in on their own. We checked the "hives" a couple days ago... they're happy as clams (and busy as bees). The moral of the story is that swarms are not very picky. Congratulations on your first swarm! May it prosper. Exciting, ain't it? Shawna Roberts Gypsy Bees Hollister, CA ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 Jun 1996 15:46:49 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: David Eyre Subject: Re: Queen Breeding . Capt Ken Black wrote >Hi Roy and everyone else, I have already send details of this post to the >list but I'm not sure if it got to you all, can someone out there confirm I >am posting? >I used some bees from a local swarm and made up mini nucs before going to >collect the virgins. About 1.5 hrs later I slipped them in to the closed >mini nuc boxes, on checking this morning 8:00am the nucs are still roaring! >I haven't released the bees yet. >Any advice on what I am doing wrong and perhaps a better method. > >24 hours later UPdate: >Bees have now been released, I will check tonight to see if the virgins are >still around, it looks like one lot have left their box and joined another >around 6ft away. I have made some more minis up this time I found that >taking young bees from the top super on a queen right colony works better as >presumably these bees are relatively young. This is a problem with the list one day your question will raise lots of answers, the next, nothing! It feels like working in a vacuum. I believe your first mistake was using bees from a swarm to make the mini nucs. These bees are unsettled and looking for a home complete with queen, any port in a storm attitude. So the first virgin or queen out and it's off we go, especially if you get lots of bees fanning with their 'Nasanov' glands. To give you an idea of how bees travel. Last year I made up 4 mini nucs, all from the same hive, gave each one a cell emerging at different times. The first one out got all the bees, the remaining cells were deserted, failed to emerge. Strangely enough that virgin failed to mate. Then customers of ours complain about the price of queens!! Secondly, to make mini nucs requires various ages of bees. Provided that original top super has brood, then there is a good chance of getting bees of all age groups. Finally, contrary to popular view, young virgin queens will feed themselves, we have watched them do it. It is only when the queen is mated that she seems to rely on her entourage for food. Hope this answers your questions, if not please try again. **************************************************** * David Eyre 9 Progress Drive, Unit 2, * * The Beeworks, Orillia, Ontario, L3V 6H1. * * beeworks@muskoka.net 705-326-7171 * * http://www.muskoka.net/~beeworks * * Agents for: E H Thorne & B J Sherriff UK. * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 Jun 1996 15:46:54 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: David Eyre Subject: Re: Tracheal Mites >I will send this one last time since I have not seen my question echo back >to my inbasket and am not sure its made it on the list yet! > >> > >> > I am new to this list as I have just started keeping bee's (two new > >> hives). >> > If this is a rehashing of old topics I apologize. >> > >> > I understand that a patty can be made to keep down tracial mites using >> > wintergreen. My question is would one made with pepermint work just as >> > well or better or not at all? If it does work does anyone have a recipe >> > for this? There is a lot of work being done on essential oils, both here in Canada and South of the border. The jury is out at the moment, until someone comes out with difinitive results, the general opinion is to stick with the recognised treatments, or risk losing your bees. Sorry your question was not answered. One problem with the list, we all get busy!!! **************************************************** * David Eyre 9 Progress Drive, Unit 2, * * The Beeworks, Orillia, Ontario, L3V 6H1. * * beeworks@muskoka.net 705-326-7171 * * http://www.muskoka.net/~beeworks * * Agents for: E H Thorne & B J Sherriff UK. * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 Jun 1996 13:07:03 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Casey Burns Subject: Is this a swarm in progress? In-Reply-To: <199605300402.VAA27892@kendaco.telebyte.com> I've beeen gunshy to work my bees since last year developing a sting allergy. Now I am getting about 3 stings a week with no reaction - so that with a BJ Sherriff suit makes me a little more willing..... Anyway, today, I have a hive that is possibly about to swarm: the hive is quite congested, and at midday, there's about 2" by 12" by 16" of bees hanging on the outside off of the cover all over the front face of the hive. Is this just normal congestive activity (they've been there for about 2 hours) or are they all about to take flight? I looked at them - they don't seem extended. I'll be throwing another deep super or two onto this hive tonight - but in the meantime, what can/should I do? I have enough empty hives out there that if they do swarm, hopefully they'll end up in one of those. But could I simply put an empty box w/ come in it upto this "swarm"? Any immediate replies to my email address would be most appreciated - I am not sure if I have turned off the digest feature.... Casey Burns ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 Jun 1996 16:12:14 +0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Bill Painter Subject: Re: Moving eggs and larvae Are all memeber of the lsit receiving this post over and over or just me? > > A question was recently asked about whether bees move eggs and or > larvae. Mark Winston and I once did a study in which we made > colonies of Africanized bees queenless, then followed all events > related to queen rearing and swarming. After becoming queenless, the > bees constructed queen cups that were empty; following that either > eggs or larvae (Mark would have the details) appeared in the cells > and were reared into queens. Since the queen had been removed and > females (queens) were reared, it is logical to assume that the eggs > were moved by the bees. > The second situation we have seen several times, in which queen > cells are produced in honey supers above a queen excluder. In these > cases all other brood was contained below the queen excluder, so I am > fairly certain that the queen did not lay the eggs in the queen cells > herself. Again it is most likely that workers moved the eggs/larvae > up into the cells. > It seems virtually impossible to imagine that bees would steal > eggs or larvae from other colonies. > There is another possibility to explain the queenless colony that > got a new queen. It is well known that worker bees can lay eggs, but > usually these are haploid (unfertilized) and develop into drones. > One bee race, the Cape honey bee (A. mellifera capensis) is notorious > for having workers that lay diploid eggs (with two sets of > chromosomes). The number of chromosomes gets halved in the formation > of the egg, but then a polar body with one set of chromosomes fuses > with the egg nucleus to form a diploid nucleus that is analagous to a > fertilized egg, and the bees can rear females from these. It turns > out this physiological adaptation is present at low frequency in > other bee races. I believe it was W.C. Roberts or O. Mackensen > discovered that 1-2% of colonies of other bee races, in the absence > of brood from which to rear a queen, would still eventually become > queen-right, apparently through the production of diploid worker eggs. > Hope this may clarify the situation somewhat. > > Dr. Gard W. Otis > Dept. of Environmental Biology > University of Guelph > Guelph, Ontario > Canada N1G 2W1 > gotis@evbhort.uoguelph.ca ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 Jun 1996 23:38:25 +0100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Hans-Ulrich THOMAS Subject: Thymol & alternative Varroa control In-Reply-To: In a recent message Robert Rice wrote: >Interesting substance thymol (5-methyl-2-isopropyl-phenol). Apparently >useful for discouraging mites and other such beasts. Yes, this is so. If you to read the articel which appeared in the March 1996 issue of the American Bee Journal about alternative Varroa control you will find more details about it. >Mind you if you have ever tasted Thyme honey you would know what too >much thymol in the brew can do to the flavour of honey. Tests have been run for an answer to this question. The appropriate quote from the mentioned paper reads: During the treament essential oil components accumulate in the wax. A great deal of them evaporates, after treatment. In honey, residues are mostly in the range of 0.1 to 0.2 mg/kg. Concentrations above 1.1 mg/kg (=1.1 ppm) alter the honey taste. From the point of view of human toxicology, these residues are not important. >I later >found out that the thymol may have been conjugated to a sugar molecule >and that this would make its presence invisible to a GCG under the >process used to prepare the sample. I would like to have this analysis >repeated again one of these days. If you interested in technical details one of the authors can help you. For the moment they only have one e-mail address which is: - anton.imdorf@fam.admin.ch Language no problem! If there is a wide interest in an e-mail version of this paper I can try to get permission from the publisher for scanning it. Any interest? Best regards Hans __________________________________________________________ Hans-Ulrich THOMAS. Beekeeper & collector of books about: - bees and beekeeping - ants (yes these small little buggers!) - nature printing e-mail: hthomas@solid.phys.ethz.ch CompuServe: 100045,2556 Fax: ++41 1 633 10 77 __________________________________________________________ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 Jun 1996 20:29:00 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Laura A. Downey" I have the following - two full hives (2 chambers each) two splits (one above each hive, using a double screened board) one super on each full hive Saturday, one of my full hives swarmed. I had an idea that something was up. Due to a rainy week, I did not inspect the hive. I had plans to inspect the hive mid-afternoon on Saturday. The bees were one ahead of me. They swarmed and I was not able to capture them. Today (Wednesday), my husband claims that another of my hives swarmed. I inspected them when I got home, noted one or two swarm cells in one of the _splits_. The cells were chewed open. The one split is doing tremendously well - this is the one that _may_ have swarmed. One full hive and one split was low on brood. I shared some brood from the split and the full hive that was doing well. The split that was doing well was crowded, so sharing some of its brood will help relieve the congestion. I plan on putting a super on the one split tomorrow. I am putting a super together as we speak. Is there anything else that I can do to avoid additional swarms? Despite the fact that there was a swarm (possibly two), there are still a lot of bees in each hive. I have been keeping bees for four years and do not wish to stop doing so. Does anyone have any ideas for success for the rest of the season? I do plan on reuniting the splits with their original hives - when is the best time to do this? Laura Downey Anne Arundel County, Maryland, USA corvi29@smart.net ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 Jun 1996 20:55:03 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Albert W. Needham" Subject: Re: Mites of the Honey Bee Please put me on list to notify when Mite Book is publsihed. Thanks, Al Needham alwine@aol.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 Jun 1996 21:12:29 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Bill Miller Subject: Re: Sting treatment? -Reply Multiple sting treatment is pretty much the same as single sting treatment: Get the stingers out, and watch out for signs of an allegic reaction (difficulty in breathing, profuse sweating). If you have had more than a few a few stings, close up the hive if practical and get out of there, as you are well "tagged" with alarm pheremone. If you get a bad allergic reaction, get to an emergency room and/or use your bee sting kit. Funny story time: When my daughter was seven, she wanted a hive of her own (with Daddy doing the heavy work). When we installed the package of bees in the hive, Katy looked up at me with that sweet look that turns fathers to putty, and said, "Daddy, when I get stung can I say s___ like you do?" W. G. Miller Gaithersburg, MD ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 Jun 1996 18:13:48 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Casey Burns Subject: Yep, it was a swarm..... In-Reply-To: <960605205502_408143307@emout07.mail.aol.com> Re my earlier message regarding bees clustering in front of a hive of mine -they were airborne at 3:15PM - by 5:30, I had them hived in a new box - about 20 lbs of bees. The hardest part was cutting through 20' of blackberry vine in my new beesuit to get to the festooning cluster! I noticed not a few drones accompanying the swarm! I am happy to have the new hive since I don't currently need the excess honey - but am trying to increase the number of hives to make it through next winter and the honey flow is just starting and might be an intense one...... Regards, Casey Burns (getting 3 beestings a week from my allergist and not reacting!) ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 Jun 1996 10:35:14 +0100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Paul Walton Subject: Re: Queen Breeding In-Reply-To: <2.2.32.19960605074805.006e8c80@mail.gtnet.gov.uk> In article <2.2.32.19960605074805.006e8c80@mail.gtnet.gov.uk>, Capt Ken Black writes >Hi Roy and everyone else, I have already send details of this post to the >list but I'm not sure if it got to you all, can someone out there confirm I >am posting? >Regards > >Ken Black > - Ken Black > " ` Bay Tree Cottage > " ` 76 East St, Fritwell > _- -_`-_|'\ /` Bicester, > _/ / / -' `~()() Oxfordshire, England. OX6 9QF > \_\ _ /\-._/\/ 00441869345725 Fax:00441869256678 > / | | email: kblack.lisa.mod@gtnet.gov.uk > '` ^ ^ Ken, Just to let you know that your messages are getting through to the list. Nice to see another Brit on the list. -- Paul Walton Paul@adrem.demon.co.uk Toddington, Bedfordshire, England. Tel. +44 (0)1525 875570 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 Jun 1996 00:40:07 +0100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Paul Cronshaw, D.C." Subject: "America's honeybees are in a bad way". THis was forwarded to me by a friend. SOrry I didn't get the source. Paul Cronshaw DC CYberchiro and Hobby Beekeeper ************** America's honeybees are in a bad way. Already weakened by 12 years of battling blood-sucking mites, bees have been brought to their knees by a soggy spring on the heels of many regions' exceptionally cold winter. Experts estimate that more than 90 percent of wild colonies have been wiped out nationwide, along with a large number of those tended by beekeepers. "It's devastated the population of unmanaged bees that are in hollow trees and old buildings and things," said Hachiro Shimanuki of the U.S. Department of Agriculture's bee research laboratory in Beltsville, Md. Shimanuki estimated that this year's winter-spring-parasite catastrophe has killed off 30 percent of existing colonies of domesticated bees, but emphasized that the number varies widely from one state to the next. In Maine, state apiary inspectors reported losing 80 percent of kept bees. In Wisconsin, beekeepers lost 67 percent of their stock. New York estimates losing 60 to 70 percent of its domesticated bees. Even in Georgia, where losses are estimated at only 15 percent, hive inspectors noted a shortage of bees available to pollinate the state's squash crop. But most farmers managed to get their plants pollinated some way, Shimunaki said. "I don't think it's been a critical shortage," he said. "Nobody has called in a panic and said, 'We don't have any bees.' " But those who depend on wild bees for pollination are in for a rough summer. Gardeners and small farmers who can't afford to rent colonies from beekeepers won't see very much in the way of cucumbers, melons, apples, blueberries and the dozens of other crops that won't produce without bees. "The people probably who will suffer will be backyard types," said Troy Fore, executive secretary of the American Beekeeping Federation and professional beekeeper in Jesup, Ga. "People who don't go to the trouble of renting bees." In the past, many farmers relied on wild bees to pollinate their crops. Although these aren't wild in the truest sense -- they're really just domesticated colonies that have escaped human domination -- they are wild in the sense that they don't require tending. But as those populations have declined in recent years, bee rental has become a sizeable industry. Keepers make $46 million annually renting their charges to farmers, who rely on bees to produce an estimated $9.7 billion worth of crops. Bees are on the defensive because of two tiny mites, one visible only with the aid of a microscope. That parasite, known as the tracheal mite, crawls into the breathing tubes of an adult honeybee and sucks its blood. But it's the larger, tick-sized varroa mite that really puts bees in a bind. It attacks both adults and developing eggs by attaching to them from the outside. "The mites get onto the adult bees and live off their blood," Shimanuki explained. But what they do to young bees is much worse. If infested eggs hatch at all, the young can emerge disfigured, often lacking a wing or a leg. And because "the honeybee colony does not tolerate anybody who is physically disfigured," Shimanuki said, worker bees usually devour the crippled insects as soon as they're born. The two types of mites, which appeared in the United States in the 1980s, have devastated bees around the country. Agriculture Department researcher Gerald Loper, who has monitored bees in the Oracle, Ariz., area since 1988, has seen them dwindle from 215 colonies in 1993 to 12 this March. "I think they may well have seen their low point this spring," Loper said. This year has been worse than most, especially in the Northeast, because of the weather. Cold winters wipe out beehives simply because the bees' body heat can't keep the hives warm enough. So if a hive's population is already reduced by mite infestation, it's that much more susceptible to the cold. "You don't have the critical mass to keep the hive warm," Shimanuki said. Cool, rainy weather this spring just made matters worse by delaying the blooming of plants, he added. No blooms meant no nectar, so bees had to live on honey for a few weeks longer than they normally would. Many hives probably just ran out, Shimunaki said. Remaining colonies will probably bounce back, Loper said, but many won't be the same. In the colonies that he's studied, Africanized bees, also known as killer bees, have shown more resistance to the mites than their honeybee counterparts. So the colonies that pull through will be those that have hybridized with the invaders from the south, becoming more aggressive. Bee experts said that they can't predict how the decline in the wild bee population will affect wild plants and the animals that eat them. But they guessed that in places such as New York and New Jersey, which may have no wild honeybees left, there aren't going to be too many wild berries this year. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 Jun 1996 10:02:29 CST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Vladimir Ptacek Subject: Movinng eggs.... Friends, Has any of you some info about references describing an observation of a queen laying egg into a queen cup? Vladimir Ptacek (ptacek@sci.muni.cz) ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 Jun 1996 10:51:48 +0000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Capt Ken Black Subject: Re: Q: Hiving swarm - escapade and questions >Congratulations on your first swarm! May it prosper. >Exciting, ain't it? > Shawna Roberts > Gypsy Bees > Hollister, CA Thanks for your interesting comments Shawna, I would just like to add a little advice based on my experience lately. I hived a huge swarm yesterday about 11:00am, now normally I would put them in a cardboard box turned upside down on a large sheet and prop a stone under a corner to allow the remaining bees to enter. However, as I was doing a favor for a friend I did what she asked and put them straight into a hive with drawn out frames. The swarm covered 10 BS frames and the outside of the hive was still heaving! I was on my way to the office so I decided to call my friend and tell her to meet me later with a super or two to give them more room. By 5 pm they were gone, lessons: 1. Trust your instinct, I should have given space there and then. 2. Don't leave swarms in temperatures of 28C without some shade, they were in an orchard so I have no excuse. 3. I will go back to using my empty box method, it works! We are enjoying a real heat wave at the moment here in the UK after the coldest spring in over a hundred years, there are swarms everywhere! bee happy - Ken Black " ` Bay Tree Cottage " ` 76 East St, Fritwell _- -_`-_|'\ /` Bicester, _/ / / -' `~()() Oxfordshire, England. OX6 9QF \_\ _ /\-._/\/ 00441869345725 Fax:00441869256678 / | | email: kblack.lisa.mod@gtnet.gov.uk '` ^ ^ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 Jun 1996 10:51:52 +0000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Capt Ken Black Subject: Re: Queen Breeding At 15:46 05/06/96 -0400, you wrote: >This is a problem with the list one day your question will raise lots of >answers, the next, nothing! It feels like working in a vacuum. > I believe your first mistake was using bees from a swarm to make the >mini nucs. These bees are unsettled and looking for a home complete with >queen, any port in a storm attitude. So the first virgin or queen out and >it's off we go, especially if you get lots of bees fanning with their >'Nasanov' glands. To give you an idea of how bees travel. Last year I made >up 4 mini nucs, all from the same hive, gave each one a cell emerging at >different times. The first one out got all the bees, the remaining cells >were deserted, failed to emerge. Strangely enough that virgin failed to >mate. Then customers of ours complain about the price of queens!! > Secondly, to make mini nucs requires various ages of bees. Provided >that original top super has brood, then there is a good chance of getting >bees of all age groups. > Finally, contrary to popular view, young virgin queens will feed >themselves, we have watched them do it. It is only when the queen is mated >that she seems to rely on her entourage for food. Thanks a lot David at least I now know that the list is receiving my posts. Its uncanny, I have now checked the mini nucs (three batches of four) and in each case the bees are all in a single queen right nuc. The other boxes are deserted except for the odd robber after the candy! So your experience seems to be a common occurrence. I have another batch of virgins emerging this weekend, I will ensure there is some food for them in the cell holder, I have read a mixture pollen and honey will suffice, is this correct. I am using two types of minis, the polystyrene type and a modified super box(a friend makes them), which comprises 5 super frames. We have designed another(currently being put together) which divides the super into four and uses half size super frames in each with a separate entrance. Anyone tried this method? Thanks for your help - Ken Black " ` Bay Tree Cottage " ` 76 East St, Fritwell _- -_`-_|'\ /` Bicester, _/ / / -' `~()() Oxfordshire, England. OX6 9QF \_\ _ /\-._/\/ 00441869345725 Fax:00441869256678 / | | email: kblack.lisa.mod@gtnet.gov.uk '` ^ ^ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 Jun 1996 08:48:00 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Alden Leatherman Subject: bees and crabs I've cleaned a lot of crabs commercially and for private use: Alaskan King Crab, snow crab, and dungeness crab. Every single one of them had gills. Perhaps Australian crabs come to the surface to breathe thus the similarity to bees breathing apparatus as David Goble states. I find fascinating the logic that because crabs and bees share the classification of invertebrate that THEREFORE bees can stay under water but die only because they run out of FOOD. Perhaps Mr. Goble (presumably a vertebrate) can breathe underwater like a fish (another vertebrate) but most of the rest of us need to carry our air with us (scuba dive) when we stay underwater longer than one lungful of air can sustain us. Perhaps I'm just showing my humor impairment. Please, Mr. Goble, tell us this is a joke posting. Alden Leatherman alden_leatherman@state.mi.us ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 Jun 1996 09:07:00 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Conrad Sigona Subject: Kinds of Hives I'm preparing a presentation on the various types of hives in use around the world for my beekeepers' group. I've read about a few kinds but with the BEE-L so far-reaching, perhaps you folks can help out by providing descriptions of the hives you use or maybe of the kind you remember grandfather using. Of course, the greater the deviation from "standard", the more interesting the hive would be. Since "standard" is relative, permit me to point out that the standard we use here is the 10 frame Langstroth, usually appearing as 2 "deep" hive boxes (around 10 inches or 25 cm deep) at the bottom for brood rearing and several smaller "shallow" boxes (less deep, around 7 inches or 17.5 cm deep) for honey. The hives are free-standing, that is, not in a house. If you wish to respond privately, please send email to conrad@ntcnet.com. If you feel your description is of interest to the BEE-L at large, please post it. I'd appreciate any response. Conrad Sigona conrad@ntcnet.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 Jun 1996 08:11:58 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ted Fischer Subject: Re: patties REGARDING RE>patties Bruce Kemp writes: "I am new to the list. There seems to be quite a few of us. I have been into bees for a year now and live in Virginia in the USA. I understand there is quite a varroa mite problem here they carry a virus that has wiped out most of the hives around here. I lost all of the 7 hives I had last year. How wide-spread is this problem? Is the varroa the only cause? Now I have found a hive in a tree and have been sapping out workers with a funnel and setting a brood chamber with a new queen next to the funnel so the workers drift over and join her. I then take the hive off 10 miles where they will live. I let the hive recover and repeat the process. I have put in Apistan strips, 2 per box, hanging along side of the frames. I don't know how to treat for trachael mites and what patties are. Can someone enlighten me? I want to do this right.... So to summarize my questions: 1. Is the virus wide-spread? 2. Do other things cause the virus besides varroa? 3. What are patties? 4. What to do about trachael mites? 5. Any suggestions on building more hives out of this tree hive?" 1) I don't believe that the question is settled as to whether or not the varroa mites carry a virus or they themselves cause all the destructive effects we're seeing in infested colonies. Virus or not, the devastation of varroa is quite widespread by now throughout the US, and worldwide as well. To my knowledge, only scattered island regions are free of varroa. 2) Virus or not, these effects are seen only in varroa infested colonies. 3) Patties are made of vegetable shortening and sugar, and were originally made as a vehicle for the introduction of terramycin into the colony for foulbrood prevention, since terramycin breaks down easily except in the presence of fats. It was subsequently noticed that tracheal mite populations were diminished in hives containing these patties, and that the control patties without the terramycin had the same value in limiting tracheal mites. 4) The easiest way to control tracheal mites, therefore, is to put patties in the hive after the supers are removed. This will control both foulbrood diseases as well as tracheal mites. The mites are mainly a problem in the fall, when they build up and adversely affect the winter bees. Putting patties in the hives at this time of year is by far the best thing to do for tracheal mites. Patties are commercially available (Terrapatties) or you can make your own (a 3 lb can of shortening blended with 5 lbs of sugar and a small packet of Terramycin (TM25)). 5) You can order a queen or two, then split the hive and requeen the queenless split. Ted Fischer ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 Jun 1996 08:27:04 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ted Fischer Subject: Extra postings? REGARDING Extra postings? Bill Painter writes: "Are all memeber of the list receiving this post over and over or just me? > > A question was recently asked about whether bees move eggs and or > larvae. Mark Winston and I once did a study.....eventually become > queen-right, apparently through the production of diploid worker eggs. > Hope this may clarify the situation somewhat." No, I have only received this posting once. Ted Fischer ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 Jun 1996 09:16:13 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Bruce Kemp Subject: recovering from loss Hi group, I have gotten some great answers from my last question. Let me try one more: As I said, many of us have lost all of our hives to varroa or whatever. I am getting hives out of an old tree by putting a brood chamber next to the door and nailing a funnel to the hole. I have been putting some old frames out for them to clean off and am seeing some almost black bees coming from a different direction. Since I am out in the sticks, I know the bees are not coming from someones box. My question is: Do you all have any tips on finding the other hive? I am having a bear of a time getting a package of bees to start like that. Also, it is getting late to start a package of bees anyway. I am wanting to get a wild hive, box it and feed it lavishly, so they can make it through the winter. An existing hive will have more workers and I can treat them for these bee scourges to try to save them. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 Jun 1996 07:31:54 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Kate Thornton Subject: Re: Kinds of Hives I have been reading the postings avidly for about a month. I am not a beekeeper, but an author busily incorporating bee material into my fiction. I appreciate the wealth of information on the posting list and am delighted at the friendly manner in which it is delivered. I envy you all, and wish I too could keep bees. But as I cannot (my city does not permit it) I will rely on you to be my beekeepers. Please describe the kinds of hives on the posting so I might get a better idea of exactly what they are, look like, their functions, etc. I am especially interested in the most elementary information, but I realize that this listing is for pros and experienced hobbyists. Again, thank you all for your expertise, experiences, anecdotes, serious discussions and tremendous help. Kate Thornton kthornton@logicon.com Pasadena, CA USA ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 Jun 1996 10:57:58 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Aaron Morris Subject: Mites and patties Bruce Kemp wrote: > I'm new to the list. There seems to be quite a few of us. I have > been into bees for a year now and live in Virginia in the USA. I > understand there is quite a varroa mite problem here they carry a > virus that has wiped out most of the hives around here... > > So to summarize my questions: > > 1. Is the virus wide-spread? > 2. Do other things cause the virus besides varroa? > 3. What are patties? > 4. What to do about tracheal mites? > ... Ted Fischer responded: > 1) I don't believe that the question is settled as to whether or not > the varroa mites carry a virus or they themselves cause all the > destructive effects we're seeing in infested colonies... > > 2) Virus or not, these effects are seen only in varroa infested > colonies. > > 3) Patties are made of vegetable shortening and sugar, and were > originally made as a vehicle for the introduction of terramycin > into the colony for foulbrood prevention, since terramycin breaks > down easily except in the presence of fats. It was subsequently > noticed that tracheal mite populations were diminished in hives > containing these patties, and that the control patties without the > terramycin had the same value in limiting tracheal mites. > > 4) The easiest way to control tracheal mites, therefore, is to put > patties in the hive after the supers are removed. This will > control both foulbrood diseases as well as tracheal mites. The > mites are mainly a problem in the fall, when they build up and > adversely affect the winter bees. Putting patties in the hives at > this time of year is by far the best thing to do for tracheal > mites. Patties are commercially available (Terrapatties) or you > can make your own (a 3 lb can of shortening blended with 5 lbs of > sugar and a small packet of Terramycin (TM25)).... > > Ted Fischer Now, Aaron Morris adds way more than 2 cents worth, with apologies in advance to those who have read it already. At the risk of wasting bandwidth to repost recent information from this forum and sci.agriculture.bees, I'm posting the following excerpt from the May issue of the Southern Adirondack Beekeepers Association newsletter (which I author and shamelessly steal from both electronic forums information that may be of value to beekeepers who aren't connected). The points I want to get across are 1) mites as a vector in spreading viruses and 2) the possibility that grease patties (vegetable oil and sugar with no other medications) may be a deterrent to tracheal mites and such patties (with no other medications) may be an appropriate treatment throughout the honey producing season. Please note these are not my original ideas, speculation abounds, and the bee scientists readily admit that they too do not have definitive answers to the whys and wherefores behind these issues. As Rod Serling would say, "Submitted for your approval..." >-----------------< Dr. Cynthia Scott-Dupree Addresses Worcester County Beekeepers I had the pleasure of attending the April 13 meeting of the Worcester County Beekeepers Association where Dr. Cynthia Scott-Dupree of the University of Guelph in Ontario spoke about Canadian Beekeeping and mites as a vector in spreading viruses in bees. The "Canadian Beekeeping" presentation was very informative, but my main interest (and that of the more than 100 attend- ing beekeepers) was in hearing what Dr. Scott-Dupree had to say about the mites. The conundrum faced by bee researchers is that it's easy to blame bees' demise on V-mites or T- mites or both, but the truth of the matter is that although we know mites are here, scientists aren't sure what exactly is the cause of bee pathology based on the effect of the mites' presence. The focus of current research in on how the mites may act as vectors in spreading the approximately twenty identified bee viruses, which are hard to identify in the field and whose symptoms may appear as common infectious diseases, hence being easily misidentified. Studies done by Drs. Dupree and Brenda Ball (in the UK) have indicated that with the stock of bees tested in their studies, there ap- pears to be no correlation between tracheal mites and honeybee viruses. This is the good news, which could lead one to conclude that although tracheal mites are a problem not to be overlooked, the threat is not as nefarious as that posed by varroa mites, which did exhibit a significant cor- relation in the spread of chronic bee paralysis virus types one and two, hairless black bee virus, Kashmir bee virus, black queen cell virus and others. It is important to note that many of these viruses are present in a hive environment in all stages of bee development as non-damaging pathogens. However it is perhaps the manner in which varroa feed on honeybees that activates the viruses, helping them to flour- ish to the detriment of the colony population. In the meantime while scientists continue to search for an- swers and solutions to the mite problems we beekeepers need to manage our bees to reduce stressors as much as possible to help them remain healthy. This includes using approved medications such as Fumidil-B for nosema and Terramycin for foulbrood, and approved treatments to combat mites, which include grease patties, menthol and Apistan. Of course one must always follow the directions when using these treat- ments to avoid contaminating the honey to be harvested. In these mite infested times a beekeeper may have to forego some of the honey crop in order to treat their bees in con- formance with label instructions. The mites have made keep- ing bees a whole new ball game and new management techniques need to be developed to keep beekeepers from striking out. >-----------------< An article by Dr. Diana Sammataro of Ohio State University titled "Tracheal Mites Can Be Suppressed by Oil Patties" ap- peared in the April '96 issue of _American_Bee_Journal_ (Vol 136, No. 4). The gist of the article was that the continuous presence of vegetable oil based sugar patties within honeybee hives can be an effective way to keep tracheal mites in check. The sidebars (taken from pages 280 and 281) are included in this issue of the BeeLine. REMEMBER! NO TERRAMYCIN WHILE HONEY SUPERS ARE ON THE HIVE! In addition to the previous ABJ article, other methods of delivering the vegetable oil have been discussed on the internet. * From: John Iannuzzi Subject: Iannuzzi Method for Treating T-Mite 1. Since the appearance of tracheal mite, I've never used the recommended treatment of a 50-gram pack of menthol crystals applied about Sept. 1 when it is still warm enough to convert the stuff to gas. 2. Today I placed a paper towel saturated w/vegetable oil (any kind; cheaper the better) between the two deep brood chambers. Within a week the bees will have re- moved it. Especially noticeable if one runs pollen traps as I do, on seven of my strongest colonies (only have 12 now). 3. I also do this September 1st when I repeat the treatment a week later. 4. In talks w/my fellow beekeepers who use menthol, my sur- vival rate is as good as theirs. 5. Theory is that the oil makes mite transference between bees difficult. 6. I know that people use diluted formic acid for the same purpose even though it is said to be "not approved yet." C'est la vie. Suum cuique. Jack the Bman Ellicott City Md USA * From: Allen Dick I wonder about the paper towel method. Is this scientif- ically proven to do anything related to T-mites? It would logically seem that there would only be vegetable oil pres- ence in the hive for a short time using this procedure, un- less the oil goes into the wax, or something of that sort. I thought that Sammataro et al indicated that continued presence over time is the secret to measurable success with grease patties, at least. Perhaps I misunderstood. I would be interested to know if there is any data (measure- ment compared to controls) for rational evaluation of this towel recommendation or if this idea is yet unproven. Many of us have been getting along with no treatment for TM, so just simple colony survival with no controls or measure- ment of mite levels is no indication of efficacy. The mechanism of TM control using oils and grease is not well understood (AFAIK), so if this is scientifically proven, then measured and proven success with this technique would give some insight into the mechanism, perhaps. It would be nice to know that there is a proven alternate method to putting grease patties on, but is there? Regards W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper RR#1, Swalwell, Alberta Canada T0M 1Y0 * From: Franklin Humphrey Sr. FYI, Dr. Delaplane has been testing this method of summer control of T-mites for about 3 years. He has advised beekeepers in Georgia that is a very effective method when bees cannot be treated with menthol. It is thought that removal of the vegetable oil from the hive creates greasy bees. This in turn hinder the migration of the mature mites from the older bees to the younger bees. The patties can be in the form of Crisco or other solid veg- etable oils placed directly on a paper towel or can be patties without the terramycin. Some people say that the paper towel method is better and others like the patty method. Personally I make my patties only about half a pound in size and put them between waxed paper. When I put them in the hive, I tear holes in the paper so that the bees can get at it. The waxed paper keeps it together so that the patty can be moved out of the way to manipulate the hive. As far as I know there are no official papers written about this method. It is something that is being tried by numer- ous beekeepers in Georgia and Tennessee and seems to be an effective method of slowing the spread of V-mites during production periods when the bees cannot be medicated. Frank Humphrey * From: Allen Dick I appreciate Frank taking the time to explain what he knows and what he has heard for our benefit. A lot of beekeepers do things under mistaken assumptions or from misunderstand- ing research results or directions, but I think it's reason- able to ask for evidence before believing what one is told -- especially if new information does not agree with what one has heard before. This is a particularly intriguing matter that affects many thousands of dollars in cost -- either of treatment -- or losses if it doesn't work, so please excuse any scepticism. Non-sceptical beekeepers tend to lose their bees sooner or later. Since the original discussion started, I have received some private email from several researchers indicating that they believe these techniques merit some investigation. One says that the trial he did resulted in no significant benefit compared to controls, but he soaked cardboard in salad oil, not towels. (Maybe it's the towel that does the trick, not the oil) And the trial was in July -- not the best time. There is some speculation about the mechanisms that are in- volved with the grease treatments. However, I do not be- lieve that anyone has *proven* how it works -- only that it does, and that the effects seem independent of the brand or source of vegetable oil. One particularly interesting the- ory is that the breakdown of oil (rancidity) produces a chemical much like a pheremone that the mite uses to detect young bees. Of course a SWAG might just say that the grease just makes it harder to climb into a trachea. Now what is not clear here is whether you mix sugar into the patties or just slice off some Crisco. I've wondered why that wouldn't work, but have not heard of it being done, and tested against controls. I've wondered about spraying the bees lightly with salad oil, and I've heard of oil fogging, and other things too. BUT no matter how nifty these ideas are, I for one, need someone to try them against controls to decide I should rely on them. A lack of scientific measure- ments is unfortunate. Perhaps that will be remedied soon. Hard facts save cold cash. Regards, Allen ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 Jun 1996 09:55:35 CDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Phil Wood Subject: Re: recovering from another loss In-Reply-To: <199606061316.JAA14771@ctc.swva.net>; from "Bruce Kemp" at Jun 6, 96 9:16 am I apologize for wasting the bandwidth of the group, but I have a short question to a loss problem that hasn't happened to me before. The problem began as a story of good intentions gone wrong. A local beekeeper here who hadn't kept bees in many years wanted to get rid of his equipment - all of it new and never used. He also had some sacks of white sugar laying around and some old honey. This spring he gifted me with this by surprise. He also wanted to go through the apairy "one last time" and give me pointers. Recall that spring in Missouri this year was a warm period followed by an extended cold period. My mentor approved of my general "leave things alone" policy, but said if I really wanted a good crop to feed some of the sugar early to get the hives built up. This seemed extravagant to me, but I put feeders on three hives, leaving the other three alone. As you may guess, the cold weather followed, and now that the season's on, the three hives that I didn't feed are going great, but the others have only a few bees. I'm thinking of removing supers (there's no honey in them yet anyway, and one of the "unassisted" hives has filled two supers already) and giving fumadil and some antibiotics. All three hives have brood. Or should I just leave things alone and count this as a lesson learned? I realize this question is ill-posed if you can't see the hives, but nonetheless, any opinions greatly appreciated. I doubt this is significant enough to be of interest to the whole group- why not reply to me personally at wood@psysparc.psyc.missouri.edu and if I get five or more answers, I'll post a summary to the group. TIA Phil Wood wood@psysparc.psyc.missouri.edu ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 Jun 1996 09:17:53 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Kerry Clark of AGF 784-2225 fax (604) 784 2299" Subject: Re: Kinds of Hives In-Reply-To: A remarkable hive design, with significance for ancient beekeeping, is the clay pot used for hundreds of years (and still) in Crete. It is used upright (like a large flower pot) and has moveable-combs as a result of top bars laid over the opening. I think pots with a similar design have been found in ruins (Knosus?) dating from 1000 B.C. I attended the Apimondia meeting in Athens (1985?) where there was a display which included a few examples. Since I was travelling to Crete, I made a point of asking about any working bee yards. The quest and touring was an interesting combination of objectives, and lead to several dead ends miles off the beaten path. I found several interesting modern apiaries, and once was shown a remnant of one of the skeps, cast aside near the apiary, used by a beekeeper's grandfather. I finally found an excellent example of the clay skeps near a village on the south coast: a bee yard carved out of the hillside, perhaps decades ago, with twenty or so live colonies, all in the clay hives. The beekeeper (in his 70's) and his wife lived in the village about 3 km away. Unfortunately the language barrier limited our conversation, and it was too hot for him to consider visiting the yard, but I was able to observe the colonies over a couple of days. The total volume of the pots (each slightly different) was about the same as 2 standard North American boxes. The colonies in the hot dry September were very weak in my experience (occupying maybe 6 frames). Honey harvest was accomplished by cutting off lower edges of comb, bringing them home in a pot, chopping them in a colander covered with cheesecloth and draining the honey. A jar of such honey would indeed be precious. The hive tool was a larger version similar to the standard ones, except the straight end had a sort of fork, for spearing and retreiving pieces of comb that had fallen to the bottom of the pot. The entrance for the bees was a horizontal slot less than 10 cm long, at the base of the hive. Some of the hives had a cross inscribed above the entrance. The pots had 2 "ears" for handholds, although I think they likely stayed in the same place for decades. The top bars were hand hewn from branches of appropriate size (wider than a top bar) but there were no spacers, and the top bars contacted each other to form (mor or less) an inner cover. The hive cover was a 6 inch layer of grape vine prunings, covered with a slab of slate. The beeyard was surrounded by a rough wall of rocks. At the entrance (I don't remember a gate) was a post with an old ram's skull mounted at the top (I heard that this was a defense against the "evil eye"). There was an olive tree for shade, and some clay dishes of water with flat corks, allowing the bees to gather water. In the rush of travel I had to leave, and knew I had missed much of the significance of this glimpse at the roots of apiculture. Whenever I think of the visit, I wonder whether that living example of ancient beekeeping is still there. Pleasant memories. Kerry Clark, Apiculture Specialist B.C. Ministry of Agriculture 1201 103 Ave Dawson Creek B.C. V1G 4J2 CANADA Tel (604) 784-2225 fax (604) 784-2299 INTERNET KCLARK@GALAXY.GOV.BC.CA ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 Jun 1996 08:01:06 +1100 Reply-To: nickw@wave.co.nz Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Nick Wallingford Organization: Nat Beekeepers Assn of NZ Subject: Sniffer dogs for AFB... There was an article (at least one) on the use of dogs to assist in AFB identification. Can anyone lay their hands on a reference(s) for me? Better yet, anyone with personal information or anecdotes? (\ Nick Wallingford {|||8- home nickw@wave.co.nz (/ work nw1@boppoly.ac.nz NZ Beekeeping http://www.wave.co.nz/pages/nickw/nzbkpg.htm ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 Jun 1996 17:19:22 -0600 Reply-To: allend@internode.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Allen Dick Organization: The Beekeepers Subject: Re: Kinds of Hives You might like to take a look at the many beekeeping web sites, perhaps starting from the page in my signature. There is a wealth of info, including a suggested reading list. Regards Allen W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper VE6CFK RR#1, Swalwell, Alberta Canada T0M 1Y0 Internet:dicka@cuug.ab.ca & allend@internode.net Honey. Bees, & Art ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 Jun 1996 17:03:52 -0600 Reply-To: allend@internode.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Allen Dick Organization: The Beekeepers Subject: Re: recovering from another loss > My mentor approved of my general "leave things alone" policy, but > said if I really wanted a good crop to feed some of the sugar early > to get the hives built up. This seemed extravagant to me, but I put > feeders on three hives, leaving the other three alone. > > As you may guess, the cold weather followed, and now that the > season's on, the three hives that I didn't feed are going great, but > the others have only a few bees. This makes no sense to me and there must be more to this than meets the eye. Feeding sugar syrup correctly in the early part of the build up period should not be particularly harmful, and should be beneficial -- cold weather or not. Maybe there was too much moisture in the syrup? Correct ratios, good water, proper feeders, etc. are necessary, but I just can't imagine what happened here. I wonder what it was about these three hives that singled them out for feeding? Whatever it was, is it the reason for their poor performance? Regards Allen W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper VE6CFK RR#1, Swalwell, Alberta Canada T0M 1Y0 Internet:dicka@cuug.ab.ca & allend@internode.net Honey. Bees, & Art ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 Jun 1996 23:50:14 PDT Reply-To: Glyn Davies Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Glyn Davies Subject: Re: Q: Hiving swarm - escapade and questions ---------------Original Message--------------- > Will bees cluster even without a queen? Yes. They cluster for the company of other bees. > Will the bees left behind cluster back on the branch without a >queen? Shawna Roberts Gypsy Bees Hollister, CA Last year after 20 years beekeeping I encountered my first queenless swarm. It was a ragged, flighty mass of bees covering the corner of a house roof. It was certainly not a cluster. Just like the difference between the yolks of fried eggs in a pan when one has broken! It took me a while to realise there was no queen but they refused to stay in their cardboard box after several attempts to get them in over about an hour an a half. I went home and caged a queen from a nucleus hive. I placed her, still in the cage, with a few bees from the swarm in the upside down box on an old bed sheetspread on the ground near the swarm. In twenty minutes all the bees had flown down into the box. I wrapped them up and took them home. I gave the queen back to the nucleus and united the swarm with another colony. NB A box with a swarm in it must always be carried upside down. Bees always hang and try to climb upwards. Collecting bees in a bag or pillow case seems to be making life unecessarily difficult. Follow the bees' insincts. It's easier for them and us. PS Plastic containers, bins, boxes or bags are disastrous for bees; no ventilation; slippery condensation from their respiration and static chages on the surface which makes them very unhappy. Glyn Davies, Ashburton, Devon. UK ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 Jun 1996 20:49:18 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "James D. Satterfield" Subject: Change in water-gathering behavior I'm keeping 16 modified Tanzanian top bar hives out in the back yard here at Canton, about 40 mi N of Atlanta, GA USA. I supply water for the bee's foraging by two large tubs of water on either side of the hives. The water has been mostly ignored this spring, but suddenly the bees are taking it in large numbers, and they appear to be going to most of the hives as best I can tell. The bees are Italian strain. The poplar flow has just ended, perhaps cut a bit short by hot, dry weather. Daily temperatures are cooler now than they were a couple of weeks ago. Any ideas on what can account for the change in behavior? It occured to me that perhaps there is a lack of honeyflow now and the bees are using water to dilute stored honey for feeding to heavy brood that's underway. I don't think it's being used to cool the hives though that may be the case since there have been population increases. I'm enjoying beekeeping in tbh's and intend to continue with them exclusively for the remainder of my years on this planet. As a result of information supplied by Paul, Dean, a couple of David's, Roy, and others, I'm having the time of my life with tbh's, raising queens in flower pot mininucs, and continuing to learn about honeybees. The internet and BEE-L are wonderful! Cordially yours, Jim -------------------------------------------------------------- | James D. Satterfield | E-Mail: jsatt@gsu.edu | | P.O. Box 2243 ------------------------------ | Decatur, GA 30031, USA 258 Ridge Pine Drive | | S.E. United States or Canton, GA 30114, USA | | Telephone (404) 378-8917 Telephone (770) 479-4784 | -------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 Jun 1996 01:52:29 GMT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Franklin D. Humphrey Sr." Subject: Re: red clover At 12:28 AM 6/5/96 +0000, you wrote: >Frank Humphrey wrote: >>When I was growing up in East Texas in the early 50s, we had red or crimson >>clover mixed in with the grasses in our hay fields. We kept 8 to 10 >>colonies of bees in gums... > >Frank, what exactly are gums? Are they those split hollow log hives? Were >they still common in the 50's? And thanks for making a man of 46 feel like >an ignorant youngster :) > Hi Stan Sorry to take so long to reply but I drive a truck locally but I had to take an out of town run. That come up and couldn't be covered with a road driver. The term "Bee Gum" was what they used to call the hives in which honey bees were kept. Bee Gums could be anything from a hollow log nailed back together to elaborate boxes. There was no standard and no movable frames. My father used to make his out of 1 x 12 boards 3 ft. Long nailed edge to edge (when a 1 x 12 was actually 1" thick and 12" wide). This created an 11" x 11" x 36" cavity for the bees. Inside the top of the box he nailed wooden strips to which he laced combs of brood form the colony he was robbing. The entrance was a 1" hole drilled at the top. Once the brood was laced in place, he nailed the top board on and nailed some tin roofing over that. He then set the new gum on top of the old one, which already has the top removed to get the brood. At this point he would drum the bees up into the new gum. Sometimes he had to hurry them along by drilling a hole at the bottom and fanning in dense smoke. Once the colony was in the new gum, the bottom board was nailed on the new gum and it was set in place of the old one. The old one was then removed for disassembly and robbing My father did have one colony in a hollow log, mainly because they would not leave it. This colony was about 40' up in and oak tree when we found them and what my dad called Spanish bees, very small, and very defensive, black bees. When we cut the tree they attacked and we had to go home to get some protection. Still we got many stings, even my Dad who never seemed to get stung. He found the queen several times and put her in a gum with brood but she wouldn't stay, So finally we nailed the log back together and in the dead of night, nailed the entrance closed. We had to drag that log about 1/2 mile to a ditch so we could back the pickup in the ditch and roll the log in. Needles to say the bees were not happy when we released them the next day at home. I know that by today's standards, this was a rather primitive way on beekeeping but my dad loved bees and this was his way. We thought a swarm was great because that was increase. We didn't make as much honey per colony but we made what we could use and still had some to give the neighbors and some to sell. Frank Humphrey beekeeper@worldnet.att.net Franklin D. Humphrey Sr. beekeeper@wornet.att.net ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 Jun 1996 01:52:31 GMT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Franklin D. Humphrey Sr." Subject: Re: Bees ignoring sugar syrup At 07:25 PM 6/5/96 +0000, you wrote: >...I wonder if acetic acid -- the main ingredient in vinegar -- other >than water, is also detrimental?... > >Allen, > >Freidrich Ruttner wrote a number of years ago that lactic acid could be used >to invert sucrose for bees. He warned against using "other acids," but >didn't list the ones he thought were harmful. > >Kevin > I checked the most recent edition of The Hive and the Honey Bee for their method of mixing syrup for feeding. They recommend the use of vinegar to prevent granulation. I also seem to remember an article last spring, in the ABJ classroom section where vinegar was recommended to prevent fermentation. I was told, by another beekeeper, that the bees seemed to take up syrup quicker if a couple of teaspoons of apple cider vinegar were added to each gallon. I have been doing this for about four years and have seen no ill effects. Quite the contrary, The bees do seem to take it quicker and I haven't had any problems with fermentation. Where I live, we have a very short season. It starts in late April, peaks in May and is pretty well done by the end of June. I have observed scrubbing bees in all my colonies for the past week. If there is a sourwood bloom, the season could go as late as the end of July. At the end of July, I remove the honey crop and add hive bodies of foundation above a queen excluder. I then feed the bees a 2:1 syrup. They will use this syrup to draw out new brood comb. When they have most of it drawn I start adding syrup with Fumidil for them to store as part of their winter stores. When the wild Aster and Goldenrod flow comes in fall they store this in the lower brood chamber, since the top one is fill of now invert sugar syrup. In late October I remove the queen excluder so the bees can move up. The Aster and Goldenrod honey is consumed first and by late winter the bees move into the top chamber. At this time they start cosuming the sugar honey with the Fumidil. I try to reverse the chambers the first chance I get in March so that I can cull the very old combs out of the old brood chamber. By the end of March, the colonies are roaring and ready to start collecting nectar. A few will have swarm cells and I use these for making splits for increase and swarm control. I think one key to this is the fact that they will take syrup very quickly at this point in time and the fact that the syrup does not ferment even in high ambient tempratures. Frank Humphrey beekeeper@Worldnet.att.net Franklin D. Humphrey Sr. beekeeper@wornet.att.net ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 Jun 1996 02:01:54 GMT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Franklin D. Humphrey Sr." Subject: Re: Change in water-gathering behavior At 12:49 AM 6/7/96 +0000, you wrote: >I'm keeping 16 modified Tanzanian top bar hives out in the back yard here >at Canton, about 40 mi N of Atlanta, GA USA. I supply water for the >bee's foraging by two large tubs of water on either side of the hives. > >The water has been mostly ignored this spring, but suddenly the bees are >taking it in large numbers, and they appear to be going to most of the >hives as best I can tell. The bees are Italian strain. > >The poplar flow has just ended, perhaps cut a bit short by hot, dry >weather. Daily temperatures are cooler now than they were a couple of >weeks ago. Any ideas on what can account for the change in behavior? > >It occured to me that perhaps there is a lack of honeyflow now and the >bees are using water to dilute stored honey for feeding to heavy brood >that's underway. I don't think it's being used to cool the hives though >that may be the case since there have been population increases. > >I'm enjoying beekeeping in tbh's and intend to continue with them >exclusively for the remainder of my years on this planet. As a result >of information supplied by Paul, Dean, a couple of David's, Roy, and >others, I'm having the time of my life with tbh's, raising queens in >flower pot mininucs, and continuing to learn about honeybees. The >internet and BEE-L are wonderful! > >Cordially yours, > >Jim > > -------------------------------------------------------------- > | James D. Satterfield | E-Mail: jsatt@gsu.edu | > | P.O. Box 2243 ------------------------------ > | Decatur, GA 30031, USA 258 Ridge Pine Drive | > | S.E. United States or Canton, GA 30114, USA | > | Telephone (404) 378-8917 Telephone (770) 479-4784 | > -------------------------------------------------------------- > Hi Jim I live just north of you about 80 miles in Chattanooga. Your bees are gathering water to cool the hives. They spread it on the combs and fan to evaporate it thereby cooling the hive and keeping the brood from overheating. Make sure you keep water available for them for the rest of the summer or else they will find it elsewhere such as your neighbors pool of bird bath. Frank Humphrey beekeeper@Worldnet.att.net Franklin D. Humphrey Sr. beekeeper@wornet.att.net ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 Jun 1996 22:07:21 -0400 Reply-To: botsuka@shoreham.k12.vt.us Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Barbara Otsuka Subject: Bears and platforms Has anyone had any luck making a platform to protect hives from bears? ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 Jun 1996 19:55:25 +1300 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Peter Bray Subject: Re: recovering from another loss - Pollen Deficiency At 05:03 PM 6/6/96 -0600, you wrote: >> My mentor approved of my general "leave things alone" policy, but >> said if I really wanted a good crop to feed some of the sugar early >> to get the hives built up. This seemed extravagant to me, but I put >> feeders on three hives, leaving the other three alone. >> >> As you may guess, the cold weather followed, and now that the >> season's on, the three hives that I didn't feed are going great, but >> the others have only a few bees. > >This makes no sense to me and there must be more to this than meets >the eye. > >Feeding sugar syrup correctly in the early part of the build up >period should not be particularly harmful, and should be beneficial >-- cold weather or not. Maybe there was too much moisture in the >syrup? > >Correct ratios, good water, proper feeders, etc. are necessary, but I >just can't imagine what happened here. > >I wonder what it was about these three hives that singled them out >for feeding? > >Whatever it was, is it the reason for their poor performance? > >Regards > >Allen > >W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper Perhaps it could be due to pollen deficiency. Hives fed syrup tend to lay up all over the place - requiring lots of brood to be fed - requiring sufficient supplies of pollen. If this pollen is not forthcoming the remaining nurse bees mine their own bodies for protein to feed the brood (and subsequently reduce their own longevity). If good pollen supplies fail to eventuate, (perhaps in this case due to the poor weather) there can be an eventual collapse of the hive population. Nosema can also have an integral part to play in this scenario. The damage to the bee's gut from Nosema reduces the benefit of what little pollen remains and exacerbates the situation. Those hives not fed syrup and thereby stimulated beyond the availabilty of pollen supplies would have fared better and in some cases significantly so. One tip with pollen - bees collect most pollen best in the morning and bees feed brood most at night. To check if your hives have surplus pollen, check them early in the morning. Any surplus pollen collected in the previous day(s) can be differentiated from the long term stored pollen in the hive by its fluffy appearance. If there is no fluffy pollen in the morning the hive is currently on a net deficit pollen flow. Unless there is a large amount of stored pollen in the hive, or the available sources improve, there will be a problem. ---------------------------------------------------------------- Peter Bray, Airborne Honey Ltd., PO Box 28, Leeston, New Zealand Fax 64-3-324-3236, Phone 64-3-324-3569 p.bray@netaccess.co.nz ---------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 Jun 1996 22:06:48 -1000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Walter Patton Subject: "MOVING WITH THE FLOW " Can I get some help in finding this book. Thanks Walter Walter & Elisabeth Patton, 27-703 A Ka' ie'ie Rd., Papaikou HI.,96781 Ph./Fax. 808-964-5401 E-Mail hihoney@ilhawaii Beekeeper and Bed & Breakfast Owner in Hawaii http://www.alohamall.com/hamakua/hihoney.htm http://www.alohamall.com/hamakua/beeware.htm http://www.alohamall.com/hamakua/lamalani.htm ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 Jun 1996 22:06:52 -1000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Walter Patton Subject: "America's honeybees are in a bad way". Regarding Paul Cronshaw posting below my comments. The big question is why H Shimunaki U.S.D.A. did not mention the hopeless situation facing U. S. beekeepers when their bees have mites and viruses which may be being introduced to the U.S. beekeepers from Canadian Bees entering the U.S. after being imported and thus introducing and spreading honeybee pest and diseases with total disregard for the intent of the Honey Bee Act of 1922 which had a strict prohibition against the import of honeybees to the U.S. for the specic verbadium purpose to "prevent the introduction and spread of pests and diseases to U.S. honeybees." H. Shimunaki since his paid consultancy and paid 6 or 8 week vacation for he and his wife to New Zealand has had no concern for New Zealand bees being allowed into the U.S. via Canada without regard for the original intent of the Honeybee Act of 1922. Further H. Shimunaki allowed for a Federal Registry notification to be published stating that the U.S.D.A., Secretary of Agriculture had found New Zealand to be free of any pests and diseases of honeybees, a fraudulent statement, WHY? Beekeepers of America need new leadership at the U.S.D.A. with peer review to solve the problems with honeybees in the United States of America. pproved-By: "Paul Cronshaw, D.C." >Date: Thu, 6 Jun 1996 00:40:07 +0100 >Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology >Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology >From: "Paul Cronshaw, D.C." >Subject: "America's honeybees are in a bad way". >To: Multiple recipients of list BEE-L > >THis was forwarded to me by a friend. > >SOrry I didn't get the source. > >Paul Cronshaw DC >CYberchiro and Hobby Beekeeper > >************** > >America's honeybees are in a bad way. > > > Already weakened by 12 years of battling blood-sucking mites, bees > have been brought to their knees by a soggy spring on the heels of > many regions' exceptionally cold winter. Experts estimate that more > than 90 percent of wild colonies have been wiped out nationwide, > along with a large number of those tended by beekeepers. "It's > devastated the population of unmanaged bees that are in hollow > trees and old buildings and things," said Hachiro Shimanuki of the > U.S. Department of Agriculture's bee research laboratory in > Beltsville, Md. Shimanuki estimated that this year's > winter-spring-parasite catastrophe has killed off 30 percent of > existing colonies of domesticated bees, but emphasized that the > number varies widely from one state to the next. In Maine, state > apiary inspectors reported losing 80 percent of kept bees. In > Wisconsin, beekeepers lost 67 percent of their stock. New York > estimates losing 60 to 70 percent of its domesticated bees. Even in > Georgia, where losses are estimated at only 15 percent, hive > inspectors noted a shortage of bees available to pollinate the > state's squash crop. But most farmers managed to get their plants > pollinated some way, Shimunaki said. "I don't think it's been a > critical shortage," he said. "Nobody has called in a panic and > said, 'We don't have any bees.' " But those who depend on wild bees > for pollination are in for a rough summer. Gardeners and small > farmers who can't afford to rent colonies from beekeepers won't see > very much in the way of cucumbers, melons, apples, blueberries and > the dozens of other crops that won't produce without bees. "The > people probably who will suffer will be backyard types," said Troy > Fore, executive secretary of the American Beekeeping Federation and > professional beekeeper in Jesup, Ga. "People who don't go to the > trouble of renting bees." In the past, many farmers relied on wild > bees to pollinate their crops. Although these aren't wild in the > truest sense -- they're really just domesticated colonies that have > escaped human domination -- they are wild in the sense that they > don't require tending. But as those populations have declined in > recent years, bee rental has become a sizeable industry. Keepers > make $46 million annually renting their charges to farmers, who > rely on bees to produce an estimated $9.7 billion worth of crops. > Bees are on the defensive because of two tiny mites, one visible > only with the aid of a microscope. That parasite, known as the > tracheal mite, crawls into the breathing tubes of an adult honeybee > and sucks its blood. But it's the larger, tick-sized varroa mite > that really puts bees in a bind. It attacks both adults and > developing eggs by attaching to them from the outside. "The mites > get onto the adult bees and live off their blood," Shimanuki > explained. But what they do to young bees is much worse. If > infested eggs hatch at all, the young can emerge disfigured, often > lacking a wing or a leg. And because "the honeybee colony does not > tolerate anybody who is physically disfigured," Shimanuki said, > worker bees usually devour the crippled insects as soon as they're > born. The two types of mites, which appeared in the United States > in the 1980s, have devastated bees around the country. Agriculture > Department researcher Gerald Loper, who has monitored bees in the > Oracle, Ariz., area since 1988, has seen them dwindle from 215 > colonies in 1993 to 12 this March. "I think they may well have seen > their low point this spring," Loper said. This year has been worse > than most, especially in the Northeast, because of the weather. > Cold winters wipe out beehives simply because the bees' body heat > can't keep the hives warm enough. So if a hive's population is > already reduced by mite infestation, it's that much more > susceptible to the cold. "You don't have the critical mass to keep > the hive warm," Shimanuki said. Cool, rainy weather this spring > just made matters worse by delaying the blooming of plants, he > added. No blooms meant no nectar, so bees had to live on honey for > a few weeks longer than they normally would. Many hives probably > just ran out, Shimunaki said. Remaining colonies will probably > bounce back, Loper said, but many won't be the same. In the > colonies that he's studied, Africanized bees, also known as killer > bees, have shown more resistance to the mites than their honeybee > counterparts. So the colonies that pull through will be those that > have hybridized with the invaders from the south, becoming more > aggressive. Bee experts said that they can't predict how the > decline in the wild bee population will affect wild plants and the > animals that eat them. But they guessed that in places such as New > York and New Jersey, which may have no wild honeybees left, there > aren't going to be too many wild berries this year. > > Walter & Elisabeth Patton, 27-703 A Ka' ie'ie Rd., Papaikou HI.,96781 Ph./Fax. 808-964-5401 E-Mail hihoney@ilhawaii Beekeeper and Bed & Breakfast Owner in Hawaii http://www.alohamall.com/hamakua/hihoney.htm http://www.alohamall.com/hamakua/beeware.htm http://www.alohamall.com/hamakua/lamalani.htm ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 Jun 1996 07:09:21 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Laura Downey Subject: Secondary swarms Regarding secondary swarms, when it occurs, do the bees leave to join the original swarm, or do they take the remaining queen with them, thereby leaving the hive in a queenless state? Laura Downey Anne Arundel County, Maryland, USA corvi29@smart.net ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 Jun 1996 13:21:04 +0200 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Max Watkins Subject: Re: Survival of Varroa Comments: To: owner-bee-l@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU Check there are no capped cells still in the broodframes and if you find them, uncap and inspect. Presumably there are no workers left in these hives you mention? Varroa can survive in [dead] sealed brood for over 30 days (Shabanov et al. 1978) but this seems to be the limit. Without adult bees to open such still-capped cells, the varroa cannot be liberated to find another food source and therefore they die. If the colonies have been totally unoccupied for some time, you shouldn't worry too much about infection from varroa but check the frames for signs of other disease, esp chalkbrood and the foulbroods before hiving new colonies in them. Hope this helps. Max ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Survival of Varroa Author: owner-bee-l@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU at INTERNET1 Date: 04/06/96 14:35 Does any one know how long Varroa mites can survive in a non-occupied hive. The question concerns how long previously infested equipment needs to be stored unused to ensure that all varroa life stages have died out. Thank you for your attention to this. Whitney Cranshaw wcransha@ceres.agsci.colostate.edu ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 Jun 1996 08:21:27 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Kelley Rosenlund Subject: Peanut Honey?? I just read in A.I. Root's "Honey Plants of the US" that peanut plants are a honey crop. Does anyone have experience with this? Is this a crop that requires a lot of pesticides? God Bless, Kelley Rosenlund rosenlk@freenet.ufl.edu Gainesville, Florida, U.S.A., Phone:352-378-7510 200 hives, 1 year in beekeeping. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 Jun 1996 06:46:00 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Kate Thornton Subject: Thank you all Thank you all (with the possible exception of Mr. Hinz, whose message was perplexing & offensive) for your many fine suggestions and information. I appreciate your help and will continue to monitor the list. Thanks again, Kate ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 Jun 1996 09:34:07 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Doug Yanega Subject: Re: "America's honeybees are in a bad way". >America's honeybees are in a bad way. > > > Already weakened by 12 years of battling blood-sucking mites, bees > have been brought to their knees by a soggy spring on the heels of > many regions' exceptionally cold winter. Experts estimate that more > than 90 percent of wild colonies have been wiped out nationwide, > along with a large number of those tended by beekeepers. [snip] >Bee experts said that they can't predict how the > decline in the wild bee population will affect wild plants and the > animals that eat them. But they guessed that in places such as New > York and New Jersey, which may have no wild honeybees left, there > aren't going to be too many wild berries this year. Is there anyone besides me who finds this (and other pronouncements of doom in this article) to be excessively pessimistic, ignoring the possible ameliorating effects of *native* bee species? There *is* a native bee expert in Shimanuki's lab there in Beltsville, after all - so there is no obvious excuse for them to neglect to mention this anywhere. Exasperated, as usual, Doug Yanega Illinois Natural History Survey, 607 E. Peabody Dr. Champaign, IL 61820 USA phone (217) 244-6817, fax (217) 333-4949 affiliate, Univ. of Illinois Urbana-Champaign, Dept. of Entomology http://www.inhs.uiuc.edu:80/~dyanega/my_home.html "There are some enterprises in which a careful disorderliness is the true method" - Herman Melville, Moby Dick, Chap. 82 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 Jun 1996 11:36:48 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Kelley Rosenlund Subject: Re: recovering from loss > Do you all have any tips on finding the other hive? The ABC & xyz of beekeeping has an interesting article on tracking down wild hives. God Bless, Kelley Rosenlund rosenlk@freenet.ufl.edu Gainesville, Florida, U.S.A., Phone:352-378-7510 200 hives, 1 year in beekeeping. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 Jun 1996 10:35:00 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Lawrence Kellogg <0002081812@mcimail.com> Subject: Re: "America's honeybees are in a bad way". >Bee experts said that they can't predict how the > decline in the wild bee population will affect wild plants and the > animals that eat them. But they guessed that in places such as New > York and New Jersey, which may have no wild honeybees left, there > aren't going to be too many wild berries this year. #Is there anyone besides me who finds this (and other pronouncements of doom #in this article) to be excessively pessimistic, ignoring the possible #ameliorating effects of *native* bee species? There *is* a native bee #expert in Shimanuki's lab there in Beltsville, after all - so there is no #obvious excuse for them to neglect to mention this anywhere. #Exasperated, as usual, Yes, this does seem too pessimistic to me. I just attended a lecture on the forgotten pollinators and I'm reading a book by the same name. One of the major points that was made is that if *native* bees are given a chance they can do an excellent job of pollinating plants. In many cases the heavy reliance on honeybees has helped reduce native bee populations by depriving them of the resources to survive. It appears as if honeybees may not be as benign as once thought. In a world of scarce resources they consume a lot of nectar that could support native bees. It was an interesting lecture and one that I am still contemplating. Other discussion...? Larry Kellogg ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 Jun 1996 11:04:37 +0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Bill Painter Subject: Pollination of Soybeens Does anyone have info on the effects of bees on a soybean crop. Are there any reports on the possible increase in yields. Are there certian soybean plants that the bee's like and others that is does not. Thanks!!! ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 Jun 1996 11:27:23 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Gerry Visel Subject: Re: "America's honeybees are in a bad way". -Reply >Bee experts said that they can't predict how the > decline in the wild bee population will affect wild plants and the > animals that eat them. But they guessed that in places such as New > York and New Jersey, which may have no wild honeybees left, there > aren't going to be too many wild berries this year. #Is there anyone besides me who finds this (and other pronouncements of doom #in this article) to be excessively pessimistic, ignoring the possible #ameliorating effects of *native* bee species? There *is* a native bee #expert in Shimanuki's lab there in Beltsville, after all - so there is no #obvious excuse for them to neglect to mention this anywhere. #Exasperated, as usual, Lawrence Kellogg writes: " Yes, this does seem too pessimistic to me. I just attended a lecture on the forgotten pollinators and I'm reading a book by the same name. One of the major points that was made is that if *native* bees are given a chance they can do an excellent job of pollinating plants. In many cases the heavy reliance on honeybees has helped reduce native bee populations by depriving them of the resources to survive. It appears as if honeybees may not be as benign as once thought. In a world of scarce resources they consume a lot of nectar that could support native bees. It was an interesting lecture and one that I am still contemplating. Other discussion...?" I presume there will be some impact on pollination, but I can guess what the cost of producing a pound of honey will do. I believe most beekeepers are in it for the honey. I recently read that the Russians have been living with Varroa for 25 years. Perhaps, now that the curtain is down, we ought to go learn how they are dealing with it. (Time to kiss and make up!) Gerry Visel ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 Jun 1996 11:40:40 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Doug Yanega Subject: Re: Pollination of Soybeens >Does anyone have info on the effects of bees on a soybean crop. Are there >any reports on the possible increase in yields. Are there certian soybean >plants that the bee's like and others that is does not. Once again, turning to McGregor's 1976 crop pollination bible, from the section on soybeans: "The soybean is considered to be self-fertile and not benefited by insect pollination...Although there is no experimental evidence to support them, some soybean growers in Arkansas have indicated that bees increase production of beans, and they encourage the presence of apiaries near their fields. Tests with plants caged to exclude bees have shown no decrease in production over exposed plots" "Piper and Morse (1923) noted that soybean flowers were 'much visited by bees'. They also noted that three of their varieties, when in full flower at Jackson, Tenn., were very fragrant - the odor suggesting that of lilacs. Although they gave no indication that these varieties were more attractive to bees than other varieties, the information indicates that cultivars might be selected with aroma or attractiveness that when incorporated in a hybrid seed program might efficiently attract pollinating insects. because of the potential value of hybrid soybeans, the breeders might watch for selections that show attractiveness to bees" "No studies have been made on the value of concentrating the gregarious types of wild bees on soybeans, although such insects might prove to be more efficient than honey bees" The bottom line: "There are no recommendations for the use of bees in pollination of soybeans. The subject is reviewed, however, because of the interest in hybrid soybeans and the possibility of using pollinating insects in hybrid soybean production". Hope this helps, Doug Yanega Illinois Natural History Survey, 607 E. Peabody Dr. Champaign, IL 61820 USA phone (217) 244-6817, fax (217) 333-4949 affiliate, Univ. of Illinois Urbana-Champaign, Dept. of Entomology http://www.inhs.uiuc.edu:80/~dyanega/my_home.html "There are some enterprises in which a careful disorderliness is the true method" - Herman Melville, Moby Dick, Chap. 82 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 Jun 1996 06:47:54 -1000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Walter Patton Subject: Moving With The Flow Thanks to the many responders about my book inquirey it lets me know my postings are going to the group.The silence about any controversial subjects is hard to understand . The U.S.honeybee is in deep trouble and the U.S.D.A. should be held responsible. I can not see how we can count on the native bees to pollinate our crops and expect the robust crop production for us to continue enjoying some of the higest quaility and most affordable food prices on earth. United we could stand again and I hope we get together soon and demand the changes that are needed to start the American honeybee recovery program that is needed So long for now Walter Walter & Elisabeth Patton, 27-703 A Ka' ie'ie Rd., Papaikou HI.,96781 Ph./Fax. 808-964-5401 E-Mail hihoney@ilhawaii Beekeeper and Bed & Breakfast Owner in Hawaii http://www.alohamall.com/hamakua/hihoney.htm http://www.alohamall.com/hamakua/beeware.htm http://www.alohamall.com/hamakua/lamalani.htm ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 Jun 1996 13:06:08 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Dave Green, Eastern Pollinator Newsletter" Subject: Re: Secondary swarms In a message dated 96-06-07 07:12:50 EDT, Laura Downey, Anne Arundel County, Maryland, USA writes: >Regarding secondary swarms, when it occurs, do the bees leave to join the >original swarm, or do they take the remaining queen with them, thereby >leaving the hive in a queenless state? Generally they leave with a virgin queen (or two or three - they don't seem as prone to fight until swarming is over) I checked an afterswarm today, that I found a couple weeks ago in a stack of supers. They were queenless, so the virgin apparently didn't get mated. I have seen swarms merge when both are on the same branch at the same time, but I would doubt that any swarm will join with an established colony. Afterswarms here have a high mortality rate. They are small, and the spring flow, being over, a lot starve. Others lose out in the mating. In other areas where there may be a good flow, they may come on just fine. A higher percentage of our late nucs are queenless than usual. We also have an abundance of dragonflies this year, so that may account. Pollinator@aol.com Dave Green, PO Box 1200, Hemingway, SC 29554 Practical Pollination Home Page Dave & Janice Green http://users.aol.com/pollinator/polpage1.html ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 Jun 1996 13:06:05 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Dave Green, Eastern Pollinator Newsletter" Subject: Re: recovering from another loss Comments: cc: allend@internode.net In a message dated 96-06-06 19:27:59 EDT, allend@internode.net (Allen Dick) writes: >> My mentor approved of my general "leave things alone" policy, but >> said if I really wanted a good crop to feed some of the sugar early >> to get the hives built up. This seemed extravagant to me, but I put >> feeders on three hives, leaving the other three alone. >> >> As you may guess, the cold weather followed, and now that the >> season's on, the three hives that I didn't feed are going great, but >> the others have only a few bees. > >This makes no sense to me and there must be more to this than meets >the eye. > >Feeding sugar syrup correctly in the early part of the build up >period should not be particularly harmful, and should be beneficial >-- cold weather or not. Maybe there was too much moisture in the >syrup? > >Correct ratios, good water, proper feeders, etc. are necessary, but I >just can't imagine what happened here. > >I wonder what it was about these three hives that singled them out >for feeding? I suspect that the feeding was too skimpy. A lot of beekeepers give a hive a quart of syrup, and consider them fed. This may have stimulated the queen, causing more consumption of feed, as more brood is raised. Early feeding commits one to continued feeding, unless the early feeding is sufficiently heavy. A hive cannot be considered "fed" unless it's had a couple gallons of syrup during that spring buildup. I like to feed frames of honey along with the syrup, if the bees are already light, because of the stimulative effect. The honey is instantaly available even in extreme cold as well. Another possibility, if the cold was extreme, and the bees way overextended on brood rearing was chilled brood. That would set a hive back severely. Pollinator@aol.com Dave Green, PO Box 1200, Hemingway, SC 29554 Practical Pollination Home Page Dave & Janice Green http://users.aol.com/pollinator/polpage1.html ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 Jun 1996 13:16:47 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: David Bernard Subject: Dogs and AFB I believe that one of the articles you may remember was in ABJ in 1991 or so. However, the person who trained and used the dogs is Jerry Fischer, a bee inspector here in the state of Maryland, USA. Jerry is a retired fire fighter and had connections in the Baltimore (MD) city police department. It was though the police department that he trained the dog to detect AFB and sit down directly in front of the infected hive. According to Jerry, the dog is highly accurate in his diagnosis of an AFB infected hive. The original dog ( a black lab) is now retired as he has hip trouble and Jerry has trained a new dog (a yellow lab). I think the idea of a lighter colored dog may be a good idea in the bee yard! Jerry does not have e-mail but I can get his address and telephone number for you if you wish. Please respond to me directly if you're interested. >Date: Fri, 7 Jun 1996 08:01:06 +1100 >From: Nick Wallingford >Subject: Sniffer dogs for AFB... > >There was an article (at least one) on the use of dogs to assist in >AFB identification. Can anyone lay their hands on a reference(s) for >me? > >Better yet, anyone with personal information or anecdotes? David Bernard EAS Master Beekeeper Vice President, Maryland State Beekeepers EAS Director for Maryland Damascus, MD USA Home 301-414-2317 Work 301-496-3798 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 Jun 1996 13:52:42 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Diana Sammataro Subject: Re: Pollination of Soybeens Regarding soybeans and bees, check with Kim Flottum, editor of Bee Culture. He did some work on soybeans and attractiveness about 10 years ago, written up in ABJ. They found some interesting things. He's at bculture@aol.com. Hope this helps, Diana S Diana Sammataro, Ph.D. The Ohio State University, OARDC/ Dept. Entomology Extension Bee Laboratory, 1680 Madison Avenue Wooster, OH 44691 NEW Phone: (330) 263 3912 Fax: (330) 262 2720 Email: Sammataro.1@osu.edu ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 Jun 1996 13:04:38 +0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Bill Painter Subject: Re: Pollination of Soybeens Thanks for the info.!!! ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 Jun 1996 08:02:25 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ted Fischer Subject: Re: Secondary swarms REGARDING RE>Secondary swarms Laura Downey asks: "Regarding secondary swarms, when it occurs, do the bees leave to join the original swarm, or do they take the remaining queen with them, thereby leaving the hive in a queenless state?" In my experience, secondary swarms may have several virgin queens. Occasionally all the virgin queens of a colony may leave with a secondary swarm, leaving the colony queenless, but with queen cells still in place. These cells may have been damaged by the virgins, so it could be problematical whether or not they will successfully emerge, mate and lay eggs. I have ended up with queenless hives due to this. Better to have prevented swarming in the first place! Ted Fischer ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 Jun 1996 08:25:03 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ted Fischer Subject: Re: America's honeybees REGARDING RE>America's honeybees Walter Patton writes: "The big question is why H Shimunaki U.S.D.A. did not mention the hopeless situation facing U. S. beekeepers when their bees have mites and viruses which may be being introduced to the U.S. beekeepers from Canadian Bees entering the U.S. after being imported and thus introducing and spreading honeybee pest and diseases with total disregard for the intent of the Honey Bee Act of 1922 which had a strict prohibition against the import of honeybees to the U.S. for the specic verbadium purpose to "prevent the introduction and spread of pests and diseases to U.S. honeybees." H. Shimunaki since his paid consultancy and paid 6 or 8 week vacation for he and his wife to New Zealand has had no concern for New Zealand bees being allowed into the U.S. via Canada without regard for the original intent of the Honeybee Act of 1922. Further H. Shimunaki allowed for a Federal Registry notification to be published stating that the U.S.D.A., Secretary of Agriculture had found New Zealand to be free of any pests and diseases of honeybees, a fraudulent statement, WHY? Beekeepers of America need new leadership at the U.S.D.A. with peer review to solve the problems with honeybees in the United States of America." I have hesitated up till now to enter this fray, but I can't help it any longer. Except from Mr. Patton, I have never heard that there was any disease or mite problem with New Zealand bees. Just the contrary - Canadian beekeepers have been prohibited (until now at least) from importing American bees because of *our* mite problem, and have had to get them all the way from New Zealand or raise the bees themselves (a better approach anyway). Why does Mr. Patton claim that Dr. Shimunaki's statement about New Zealand bees is fraudulent? Let's have some hard *facts* about this, or otherwise drop the subject. Ted Fischer ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 Jun 1996 14:49:12 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Dave Green, Eastern Pollinator Newsletter" Subject: Re: Peanut Honey?? In a message dated 96-06-07 08:25:26 EDT, Kelley Rosenlund rosenlk@freenet.ufl.edu writes: >I just read in A.I. Root's "Honey Plants of the US" that peanut plants are a >honey crop. > > >Does anyone have experience with this? > > >Is this a crop that requires a lot of pesticides? Kelly, I have never seen a bee on a peanut blossom. I believe it is one of the few plants that actually self pollinate. (Oftentimes plants are claimed to be self-pollinating, when they really mean self-fertile.) Pollinator@aol.com Dave Green, PO Box 1200, Hemingway, SC 29554 Practical Pollination Home Page Dave & Janice Green http://users.aol.com/pollinator/polpage1.html ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 Jun 1996 14:49:19 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Dave Green, Eastern Pollinator Newsletter" Subject: Re: "America's honeybees are in a bad way". -Reply In a message dated 96-06-07 12:33:48 EDT, GCVisel@mail.rkd.snds.com (Gerry Visel) writes: > I presume there will be some impact on pollination, but I can guess >what the cost of producing a pound of honey will do. I believe most >beekeepers are in it for the honey. There are many commercial beekeepers who make their primary livelihood from pollination service, myself included. In California and parts of the northwest the income from pollination service is greater than, or as much as, the income from honey. I belive this is likely true in Michigan, NY, and New England, and Florida, with some other smaller areas too. Pollinator@aol.com Dave Green, PO Box 1200, Hemingway, SC 29554 Practical Pollination Home Page Dave & Janice Green http://users.aol.com/pollinator/polpage1.html ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 Jun 1996 14:49:23 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Dave Green, Eastern Pollinator Newsletter" Subject: Re: "America's honeybees are in a bad way". Comments: cc: dyanega@denr1.igis.uiuc.edu In a message dated 96-06-07 10:37:11 EDT, Doug Yanega writes: >>Bee experts said that they can't predict how the >> decline in the wild bee population will affect wild plants and the >> animals that eat them. But they guessed that in places such as New >> York and New Jersey, which may have no wild honeybees left, there >> aren't going to be too many wild berries this year. > >Is there anyone besides me who finds this (and other pronouncements of doom >in this article) to be excessively pessimistic, ignoring the possible >ameliorating effects of *native* bee species? There *is* a native bee >expert in Shimanuki's lab there in Beltsville, after all - so there is no >obvious excuse for them to neglect to mention this anywhere. >Exasperated, as usual, > >Doug Yanega Illinois Natural History Survey, 607 E. Peabody Dr. Your point is well taken, Doug, but the other pollinators around here are in just as bad shape. There are some who think they will recover. Well, the American chestnut, and the American elm probably will *eventually* recover, but it will be a darn slow process without a lot of help. I hear a lot of talk about other pollinators, but don't see much chance of protecting and enhancing these, particularly when the primary means of evading enforcement of pesticide label directions is to order the beekeeper to move or protect his bees. Any pollinator here whose life cycle intersects with cotton bloom is in danger of eradication. How much is just talk, and how much is serious effort? And how little dissemination of info on culture of alternative pollinators (trade secrets?) I admire and thank Keith Delaplane for finally getting some real info on bumblebee culture to those of us who'd like to try. He's a mover and shaker in the beekeeping world. Doug, you are also ignoring the way agriculture has changed, even in one generation. There is just no way unmanaged, uncultured wild pollinators are going to be adequate in a monoculture situation. You can decry the monoculture, but I doubt you (or I) could stop it. In just the past ten years, I've seen many of the smaller cuke and melon growers quit. One reason is that they relied on wild pollinators, or skimped on honeybees. I listen to them complain that they can't make any money. The big growers use bees in a lot better ratio, and they don't complain; they just increase acreage for another year. Well, we've just completed one of the best springs with the fewest hives we've had in recent years. I wanted to save some hives out to go to sourwood, but most of these have been taken by desperate melon growers who suddenly found out about the bees (after losing the crown bloom crop). We've got some nucs left; perhaps they can be beefed up enough in two weeks???? The honeybees are in great shape, with many hives having bees out on the porch, as they used to in the "good ole' days." Of course the cotton bloom hasn't started yet. We haven't had a trace of any pesticide damage yet this year. Wheat we've seen has been clean of mustard, or else perhaps hasn't been sprayed. The martins and swallows may have done a sufficient job. They sure were "swarming" over the wheat fields. Keeping our fingers crossed and our camcorder ready. Hopefully my efforts to protect honeybees will also protect other pollinators. Pollinator@aol.com Dave Green, PO Box 1200, Hemingway, SC 29554 Practical Pollination Home Page Dave & Janice Green http://users.aol.com/pollinator/polpage1.html ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 Jun 1996 11:41:24 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: WILLIAM G LORD Subject: Re: Kinds of Hives In-Reply-To: from "Kerry Clark of AGF 784-2225 fax" at Jun 6, 96 09:17:53 am I worked on a beekeeping project in the Sudan in the mid 1980's and a major thrust was to convert beekeepers from a destructive harvest of primative log hives to a top-bar type hive. Wood was in short supply, but we observed that the Sudanese stored drinking water in clay pots and were quite good an pot making. For water storage the pots were great in that they were porous and the evaporative cooling made for a cool drink. We had some pot makers make a number of clay hive prototypes, but we never got good acceptance by the bees. We ended up adapting a common woven (reed) market basket that worked quite well as a top bar hive when suspended between two trees. Bill Lord -- WILLIAM G LORD E-Mail : wglord@franklin Internet: wglord@franklin.ces.ncsu.edu Phone : 9194963344 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 Jun 1996 16:07:59 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: David Eyre Subject: Re: Queen Breeding Ken Black wrote >I am using two types of minis, the polystyrene type and a modified super >box(a friend makes them), which comprises 5 super frames. We have designed >another(currently being put together) which divides the super into four and >uses half size super frames in each with a separate entrance. Anyone tried >this method? We use an independant mini-nuc, which seems to work. Our way,provided you seperate them well, you don't get the cross-over of bees between the different entrances. The biggest problem is getting the foundation drawn out!! What we do now is to put them into a full sized hive to be drawn and filled. **************************************************** * David Eyre 9 Progress Drive, Unit 2, * * The Beeworks, Orillia, Ontario, L3V 6H1. * * beeworks@muskoka.net 705-326-7171 * * http://www.muskoka.net/~beeworks * * Agents for: E H Thorne & B J Sherriff UK. * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 Jun 1996 16:09:08 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: David Eyre Subject: Re: Secondary swarms >Regarding secondary swarms, when it occurs, do the bees leave to join the >original swarm, or do they take the remaining queen with them, thereby >leaving the hive in a queenless state? Secondary swarms are independant, and do not join the main swarm, as that will have gone days before. Secondary swarms are usually mating swarms, as such have their own queens. The mother hive could be considerd queenless as all that would be left would be sealed cells. **************************************************** * David Eyre 9 Progress Drive, Unit 2, * * The Beeworks, Orillia, Ontario, L3V 6H1. * * beeworks@muskoka.net 705-326-7171 * * http://www.muskoka.net/~beeworks * * Agents for: E H Thorne & B J Sherriff UK. * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 Jun 1996 15:07:58 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Victor M. Kroenke" Subject: Re: Pollination of Soybeens Bill Painter wrote: > > Does anyone have info on the effects of bees on a soybean crop. Are there > any reports on the possible increase in yields. Are there certian soybean > plants that the bee's like and others that is does not. > > Thanks!!! I have received some excellent honey crops from soybeans however the bees do not have much effect on the production of soybeans. If there is any increase in bean production it is very small. In one area that I have hives the farmers have been planting some varities of short season beans and the bees do not seem to get very much (if any) necter from them. In another area the beans planted are a full season bean call Essex and the bees usually do pretty good with them. victork@tyrell.net Walnut,Kansas ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 Jun 1996 16:47:07 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Tim Peters Subject: Re: Bears and platforms At 10:08 PM 6/6/96 -0500, you wrote: > >Has anyone had any luck making a platform to protect hives from bears? > I must confess that I do not know too much about using 'platforms' to prevent bear attacks, but since I do have first hand experience with black bears and since I have tried to read anything I find about dealing with the problem, I feel that I must comment. My own experience as well as other's exp that I have read about indicates that once the bruin has sampled a particular bee yard there is precious little that you can do to prevent return engagements, short of hunting the animal down and killing it (not particularly easy since they are primarily nocturnal). Therefore prevention is the key. Much has been written about electric fences, and I don't plan on recapping all of that. There are many excellent products on the fencing market that will deter a bear who just *happens* onto an apiary. The best possible fencing option for the hobbyist who has his hives in the backyard, reasonably close to 120V is to buy an AC livestock fencer (the ole weed burner). These products produce a great "bang for the buck" and provide a pulsing charge that will continue to zap for as long as there is contact with it. For the large numbers of bee keeps that have hives remotely located there are battery powered or solar powered electric fence units. There is much who-hah about how many volts these units produce to which I reply "so what?". The property that you're going after here is current flow. I confess that I don't know what the amperage is of these DC units (or the AC ones either), but I do know that it can't be a large amount. The old saying is voltage will get your attention, but its the current that kills you. Electro Static Discharge (static electricity) is generated in 10's of thousand's of volts (a typical shock from the carpet in your house with an excellent generator like wool socks will generate 8000-10000 volts charge), but the current flow is very small so you don't die you just yell DAMN!!!! Much the same as if you came in contact with an electric fence. But I digress. The bad news about charged DC fences is that once they have discharged there is a time factor to consider before the fence is ready to zap again. Batteries are, after all great big honkin capacitors, and capacitors can hold a tremendous charge, but once its gone, time is required to build the charge back to the previous level. Bears are much faster than this time factor. As I mentioned above, none of these measures will stop a bear who knows what a treat is held in those hives and is hungry and/or determined enough to get to them. Another measure that has been tried is live-trapping and transporting out of the area. This is extremely costly, is usually done by the state fish and game and is difficult to coordinate. And it doesn't always work. The bear's grazing range is huge, and I have read stories where a bear was taken 100 miles, tagged and released and still returned to the same hives two weeks later! Something that I have wanted to try that is popular up here (NE VT) is to have the local hunters run the bear with their huntings dogs. This practice is done to train the dogs and the bear is not physically harmed (just treed and scared half to death!) and seems an effective way to discourage the bear from returning to the area where the dogs found him. Bears HATE dogs. I have asked the game warden to put me in touch with one of these guys, but it hasn't happened yet. I guess none of what I've said paints a very rosy picture if you've had bears attack your hives and are trying to figure out a way to stop them. I'm sorry I can't give a definitive solution to this problem. My own method of dealing with bears is not something which can be mass- marketed. I have my hives approx 75' from a breaker box that serves my poultry coops. My original design was to wire a 30amp breaker with #10 romex and then connect the neutral lead to one sheet of metal roofing and the hot lead to another sheet of roofing. the neutral plate goes on the ground in front and behind the hives (kept isolated from the earth by 6x6's) and the hot plate goes on top of the hives. The theory is that the bear must step on the neutral plate to reach the hives. When he reaches to push the hive over he completes the circuit....and BANGO!!!! I can't report on the effectiveness of this because I have yet to zap even one hapless bruin with this method. Just yesterday I changed my layout to be less cumbersome by setting up a typical fence line around the hives, but I used #12awg bear (pun inteded) copper as my fencing, connected to the #10 romex and the 30amp breaker. This should also be an effective deterrent. A bit sadistic perhaps, but probably effective. Obviously, this set-up could not be used in a more populated area where someone may wander into it or anyplace where there be small children or large pets. I only energize my 'fence' during night hours, when bear attacks are most likely. Well that's all folks. I apoligize to the bw police. I know this is long. I hope this info is of some help. Reference: Bee Culture magazine, March 1996 Tim Peters, Kirby VT tpeters@kingcon.com KirBee Apiary, Bear Bait Honey I rather be flying! ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 Jun 1996 16:48:13 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Tim Peters Subject: Thanks for the info Its been some time since I last ventured some questions and I have been remiss in not taking the time to thank everyone on the list who provide such useful info on a number of topics. Specifically I would like to thank those of you who gave basic pointers on getting started in a commercial venture. I was very helpful and gave me much to think about. I am also thanking all of youse that provided your thoughts about the bees ignoring sugar syrup and I am facinated with where this thread is going (still!). I have other questions and comments (to be sure!) but I'll send those under separate cover. See Ya! Tim Peters, Kirby VT tpeters@kingcon.com KirBee Apiary, Bear Bait Honey I rather be flying! ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 Jun 1996 16:48:33 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Tim Peters Subject: Re: Bees ignoring sugar syrup At 04:26 PM 6/3/96 -0500, Allen wrote: >At one point, many years ago, recommendations were that a small >amount of tartaric acid be added to sugar syrup to invert the >sucrose. > >Articles I have read indicates that this practice tends to cause >dysentary and is no longer recommended. Moreover, acid processed >syrups are known to cause bee mortality. > Fascinating. The book that I used to get me started; "Practical Beekeeping" Garden Way Publishing, Copyright 1977; specifies tartaric acid to be used to retard crystallization. I could never find 'tartaric acid' and always wondered if 'cream of tartar' as found in the kitchen was the same stuff. Never had the courage to try it. Sounds like I should be glad I didn't. I have a friend and fellow 'keeper who has an Armenian gentleman as his mentor. This guy squeezes 1 lemon into their sugar syrup batch. sorry I don't know what a 'batch' is in volume. This sounds like it would do the same as the vinegar mentioned elsewhere in this thread. Allen, thanks much for your advise on starting commercially. Tim Peters, Kirby VT tpeters@kingcon.com KirBee Apiary, Bear Bait Honey I rather be flying! ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 Jun 1996 16:49:14 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Tim Peters Subject: Rotating Deeps A question for the group: Yesterday I did an extensive inspection on my strongest hive. A bear had dumped this hive on May 25th. When I put the hive back together my impression was that it had suffered only small colateral damage to two pollen frames in the second deep, but I wanted to be sure that everything was back to normal. This hive presently has three deep hive bodies. The first deep is a nine frame deep with good brood comb. The second deep is a ten frame deep with brood comb. The third deep was ten frames of new foundation that I put on earlier this spring. The girls have drawn out about 4-5 frames by now. The first two deeps are chock full of bees. Now for my question. Should I rotate my deeps? If so how should it be done? My inspection revealed older emerging brood in Deep #2 and uncapped and newer brood in deep #1. Only some uncapped honey in deep #3. I want to do a better job of managing and swarm control but the issue of rotating deeps has me confused. I also put on a super yesterday to give even more room. Thanks for your answers in advance. Tim Peters, Kirby VT tpeters@kingcon.com KirBee Apiary, Bear Bait Honey I rather be flying! ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 Jun 1996 15:58:03 BST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Stephen Birchall (Stephen Birchall)" Subject: Re: Peanut Honey?? >I just read in A.I. Root's "Honey Plants of the US" that peanut plants are a >honey crop. > > >Does anyone have experience with this? > > >Is this a crop that requires a lot of pesticides? > I don't know, but it reminds me that peanut butter and honey together make a great sandwich filling! Anybody else tried this combination ? Steve ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 Jun 1996 17:26:59 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Mark A Ryding Subject: Re: Secondary swarms no not as such.the second swarm is known as a cast.this usually takes with it the first queen to hatch,obviously noy all queen cells were removed.in effect the bees could swarm away to nothing if left to thier own devices.hope this helps ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 Jun 1996 18:57:03 +0100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Gordon Scott Subject: Assembling frames In-Reply-To: <960604.111756.EDT.SYSAM@cnsibm.albany.edu> On Tue, 4 Jun 1996, Aaron Morris wrote: > So, last night I'm assembling what seemed like a bazillion > frames, by hand, using a small tack hammer. After bending > more frame nails than I can count I got to thinking... I use a tool called a Spiralux which is nothing more than a telescopic pusher. The pin is held inside a tube and the handle pushes down a plunger onto the nail, driving it into the wood. 3/4" gimp pins go in quickly and easily. For larger quantities, many tackers/staplers, particularly the electric ones, will drive small nails. Regards, -- Gordon Scott gordon@apis.demon.co.uk gordon@multitone.co.uk (work) The Basingstoke Beekeeper (newsletter) beekeeper@apis.demon.co.uk Embryo Home Page Beekeeper; Kendo 3rd Dan; Sometime sailor. Hampshire, England. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 Jun 1996 22:20:26 PDT Reply-To: Glyn Davies Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Glyn Davies Subject: Apology; RE: Re: Q: Hiving swarm - escapade and questions Dear Bee-Liners, I believe that my posting yeserday was duplicated. I apologise. Glyn Davies, Ashburton, Devon. UK ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 Jun 1996 22:07:41 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Bill Miller Subject: Re: recovering from loss How to find a wild hive: I haven't tried this myself, but I am told this is the method used to find bee trees in the distant past. >From your frames that are being cleaned (or whatever the bees are feeding on), collect a dozen or so live bees, and put them in a box. Watch the direction bees go when they leave the feeding area, then set out in that direction following a bee. When you lose sight of your first bee, release one from your box and follow her. Repeat the process until you either find the colony or run out of bees in your box. Again, the caveat: I haven't tried this. You might want to try this from about 1/2 mile away from known bee colonies (and prove it works) before you get led into a poison ivy and bramble patch by the wild bees. W. G. Miller Gaithersburg, MD ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 8 Jun 1996 02:09:25 GMT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Franklin D. Humphrey Sr." Subject: Re: Bears and platforms At 08:47 PM 6/7/96 +0000, you wrote: > > Much has been written about electric fences, and I don't plan on > recapping all of that. There are many excellent products on the > fencing market that will deter a bear who just *happens* onto an > apiary. The best possible fencing option for the hobbyist who has > his hives in the backyard, reasonably close to 120V is to buy an AC > livestock fencer (the ole weed burner). These products produce a great > "bang for the buck" and provide a pulsing charge that will continue to > zap for as long as there is contact with it. > > For the large numbers of bee keeps that have hives remotely located > there are battery powered or solar powered electric fence units. There > is much who-hah about how many volts these units produce to which I > reply "so what?". The property that you're going after here is current > flow. I confess that I don't know what the amperage is of these DC units > (or the AC ones either), but I do know that it can't be a large amount. > > The old saying is voltage will get your attention, but its the current > that kills you. Electro Static Discharge (static electricity) > is generated in 10's of thousand's of volts (a typical shock from the > carpet in your house with an excellent generator like wool socks will > generate 8000-10000 volts charge), but the current flow is very small > so you don't die you just yell DAMN!!!! Much the same as if you came in > contact with an electric fence. But I digress. > > The bad news about charged DC fences is that once they have discharged > there is a time factor to consider before the fence is ready to zap > again. Batteries are, after all great big honkin capacitors, and >capacitors > can hold a tremendous charge, but once its gone, time is required to >build > the charge back to the previous level. Bears are much faster than this > time factor. > > As I mentioned above, none of these measures will stop a bear who knows > what a treat is held in those hives and is hungry and/or determined > enough to get to them. > > Another measure that has been tried is live-trapping and transporting > out of the area. This is extremely costly, is usually done by the > state fish and game and is difficult to coordinate. And it doesn't > always work. The bear's grazing range is huge, and I have read stories > where a bear was taken 100 miles, tagged and released and still >returned > to the same hives two weeks later! > > Something that I have wanted to try that is popular up here (NE VT) is > to have the local hunters run the bear with their huntings dogs. This > practice is done to train the dogs and the bear is not physically >harmed > (just treed and scared half to death!) and seems an effective way to > discourage the bear from returning to the area where the dogs found >him. > Bears HATE dogs. I have asked the game warden to put me in touch with > one of these guys, but it hasn't happened yet. > > I guess none of what I've said paints a very rosy picture if you've had > bears attack your hives and are trying to figure out a way to stop them. > I'm sorry I can't give a definitive solution to this problem. > > My own method of dealing with bears is not something which can be mass- > marketed. I have my hives approx 75' from a breaker box that serves my > poultry coops. My original design was to wire a 30amp breaker with #10 > romex and then connect the neutral lead to one sheet of metal >roofing and > the hot lead to another sheet of roofing. the neutral plate goes on the > ground in front and behind the hives (kept isolated from the earth by > 6x6's) and the hot plate goes on top of the hives. The theory is >that the > bear must step on the neutral plate to reach the hives. When he >reaches to > push the hive over he completes the circuit....and BANGO!!!! I can't > report on the effectiveness of this because I have yet to zap even one > hapless bruin with this method. Just yesterday I changed my layout to > be less cumbersome by setting up a typical fence line around the >hives, but > I used #12awg bear (pun inteded) copper as my fencing, connected to the > #10 romex and the 30amp breaker. This should also be an effective >deterrent. > A bit sadistic perhaps, but probably effective. Obviously, this set-up > could not be used in a more populated area where someone may wander >into it > or anyplace where there be small children or large pets. I only >energize my > 'fence' during night hours, when bear attacks are most likely. > > Well that's all folks. I apoligize to the bw police. I know this is >long. > I hope this info is of some help. > > Reference: Bee Culture magazine, March 1996 >Tim Peters, Kirby VT >tpeters@kingcon.com >KirBee Apiary, Bear Bait Honey >I rather be flying! > Hi Tim Did you know that your car is capable of approximately 6000 revolutions pre minute and that the plugs fire at half that rate? Did you also know that a capacitor discharge ignition system is used to furnish those 50,000volt pulses 3000 times a minute? And did you know that this is also the same system used in fence chargers? The main difference is that fence chargers are designed to work slower to make the battery last longer. The old brush burner type fence chargers are very hard to find because they tend to start fires and their sale is forbidden in most states. Also most fence chargers only use about 6000 volts. If you really want to deter bears, go to an auto parts store and get a high performance electronic ignition system and take to your local community college and have them design a trigger circuit for about 2 to 3 thousand pulses per minute and mount the whole thing in a weather proof box. Believe me, 50,000 volt 2000 times per min. will deter the most determined bear. Now the main reason I' replying to your post is that you are suggesting using household AC voltage and current to deter bears. These voltages kill more people in the US each year than all others combined. It only takes 1/2 amp of current through your heart to kill.. 120 VAC and 240 VAC is not high enough to knock human loose form the contact but does cause muscle contraction. At this point the human body is electrocuted. Now is someone stagers into your bear trap at night by mistake, you are going to have a dead person on your hand, make no mistake about it. This is not something I would not want on my conscience. Frank Humphrey beekeeper@worldnet.att.net Franklin D. Humphrey Sr. beekeeper@wornet.att.net ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 8 Jun 1996 02:09:26 GMT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Franklin D. Humphrey Sr." Subject: Re: Mites and patties At 02:57 PM 6/6/96 +0000, you wrote: >Bruce Kemp wrote: > >> I'm new to the list. There seems to be quite a few of us. I have >> been into bees for a year now and live in Virginia in the USA. I >> understand there is quite a varroa mite problem here they carry a >> virus that has wiped out most of the hives around here... >> >> So to summarize my questions: >> >> 1. Is the virus wide-spread? >> 2. Do other things cause the virus besides varroa? >> 3. What are patties? >> 4. What to do about tracheal mites? >> ... > >Ted Fischer responded: > >> 1) I don't believe that the question is settled as to whether or not >> the varroa mites carry a virus or they themselves cause all the >> destructive effects we're seeing in infested colonies... >> >> 2) Virus or not, these effects are seen only in varroa infested >> colonies. >> >> 3) Patties are made of vegetable shortening and sugar, and were >> originally made as a vehicle for the introduction of terramycin >> into the colony for foulbrood prevention, since terramycin breaks >> down easily except in the presence of fats. It was subsequently >> noticed that tracheal mite populations were diminished in hives >> containing these patties, and that the control patties without the >> terramycin had the same value in limiting tracheal mites. >> >> 4) The easiest way to control tracheal mites, therefore, is to put >> patties in the hive after the supers are removed. This will >> control both foulbrood diseases as well as tracheal mites. The >> mites are mainly a problem in the fall, when they build up and >> adversely affect the winter bees. Putting patties in the hives at >> this time of year is by far the best thing to do for tracheal >> mites. Patties are commercially available (Terrapatties) or you >> can make your own (a 3 lb can of shortening blended with 5 lbs of >> sugar and a small packet of Terramycin (TM25)).... >> >> Ted Fischer > >Now, Aaron Morris adds way more than 2 cents worth, with apologies >in advance to those who have read it already. > >At the risk of wasting bandwidth to repost recent information from >this forum and sci.agriculture.bees, I'm posting the following excerpt >from the May issue of the Southern Adirondack Beekeepers Association >newsletter (which I author and shamelessly steal from both electronic >forums information that may be of value to beekeepers who aren't >connected). The points I want to get across are 1) mites as a vector >in spreading viruses and 2) the possibility that grease patties >(vegetable oil and sugar with no other medications) may be a deterrent >to tracheal mites and such patties (with no other medications) may be an >appropriate treatment throughout the honey producing season. Please >note these are not my original ideas, speculation abounds, and the bee >scientists readily admit that they too do not have definitive answers to >the whys and wherefores behind these issues. > >As Rod Serling would say, "Submitted for your approval..." > > >-----------------< > This was posted to the list on May 1st this year Approved-By: Joseph Cooper Date: Wed, 1 May 96 17:08:16 +0000 List readers who want to follow up on Allen Dick's recent posting as to the use of grease in the control of tracheal mites may want to look at: Diana Sammataro, Susan Cobey, Brian H. Smith and Glen R. Needham, "Controlling Tracheal Mites..In Honey Bees..With Vegetable Oil," _J of Economic Entomology_, 87, (4): 910-16 (1994). The abstract reads in part: "Field experiments ...between 1991 and 1993 demonstrated that treating colonies of honey bees...continuously with vegetable oil depressed populations of tracheal mites....Oil patties were made from a combination of solid vegetable oil (shortening) and white sugar, with or without the addition of [Terramycin]." References cited in this article include at least two other directly relevant papers. ********************** Joseph Cooper jcooper@infinet.com I recently read that DR Deleplane co-authored a paper concerning the use of grease patties for "T" mite control in summer. He recommends a mixing 2 parts Crisco or other vegetable shortening to 1 part powdered sugar. Press into patties between waxed paper and insert over the brood nest. Make sure that the shortening is 100% vegatable oil and not animal fat. Measurements are by weight. Granulated sugar can also be used if you prefer. I will try to get a copy of the article and post it to the list. Also if possible I will try to get a cop of the paper at the seminar next week and post it to the list Frank Humphrey beekeeper@worldnet.att.net Franklin D. Humphrey Sr. beekeeper@wornet.att.net ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 8 Jun 1996 01:26:39 GMT Reply-To: johntrn@ldd.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: John Taylor Organization: midwest.net Subject: Re: "America's honeybees are in a bad way". In-Reply-To: On Thu, 6 Jun 1996 00:40:07 +0100, you wrote: >THis was forwarded to me by a friend. > >SOrry I didn't get the source. > >Paul Cronshaw DC >CYberchiro and Hobby Beekeeper > >************** > >America's honeybees are in a bad way. > > > Already weakened by 12 years of battling blood-sucking mites, bees > have been brought to their knees by a soggy spring on the heels of . . . much good stuff snipped > animals that eat them. But they guessed that in places such as New > York and New Jersey, which may have no wild honeybees left, there > aren't going to be too many wild berries this year. This must have been a 'wire' (AP, UP, UPI, etc.) release article. As near as I can tell, the identical article appeared in the Cape Girardeau, Missouri, Southeast Missourian Newspaper. -- John Taylor -- Southeast Missouri When in danger, or in doubt, run in circles, scream and shout! ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 Jun 1996 23:07:16 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Wesley A Voigt Jr Subject: Re: Peanut Honey?? In a message dated 96-06-07 17:28:25 EDT, you write: >I don't know, but it reminds me that peanut butter and honey together make >a great sandwich filling! > >Anybody else tried this combination ? Yes - it's great and if you mix the honey and peanut butter together, it makes the peanut butter easier for childeren to spread without tearing up the bread. If you have granulated honey, try it - it addes a neat texture to the spread Wesley A Voigt Jr ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 Jun 1996 20:47:39 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: _ Subject: Re: Pollination of Soybeens You wrote: > > >Does anyone have info on the effects of bees on a soybean crop. Are there >any reports on the possible increase in yields. Are there certian soybean >plants that the bee's like and others that is does not. > >Thanks!!! > Hi, I'd be interested in this...soybeans are a major crop around here (memphis, tennessee area)...cotton can be a good honey crop under the right circumstances...it's a non-floral nectarine...it -oozes- nectar! (so do citrus trees)...the problem is all the insecticides that are put on it....there are some organic cotton growers though...and they are usually more co-operative. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 Jun 1996 22:49:17 -0600 Reply-To: allend@internode.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Allen Dick Organization: The Beekeepers Subject: Re: Bees ignoring sugar syrup > The book that I used to get me started; "Practical > Beekeeping" Garden Way Publishing, Copyright 1977; specifies > tartaric acid to be used to retard crystallization. I could > never find 'tartaric acid' and always wondered if 'cream of > tartar' as found in the kitchen was the same stuff. Never > had the courage to try it. Sounds like I should be glad I > didn't. > > I have a friend and fellow 'keeper who has an Armenian > gentleman as his mentor. This guy squeezes 1 lemon > into their sugar syrup batch. sorry I don't know what a > 'batch' is in volume. This sounds like it would do the same > as the vinegar mentioned elsewhere in this thread. Regarding the vinegar: I do a little open feeding in drums from time to Time. Today I stopped at a yard and looked in the drum. Hmmm... Smelled like vinegar! Water -- being lighter than syrup, sits on top, andin the weak sugar solution that forms there, fermentation occurs -- and proceeds right through to the vinegar stage. What happens to nectar in flowers if the bees (or other insects, bats, etc. don't get there in time?) Are wilting flowers full of vinegar? I suppose it is possible that over many eons, bees must have quaffed a lot of vinegar. Maybe they are used to it? Regards Allen W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper VE6CFK RR#1, Swalwell, Alberta Canada T0M 1Y0 Internet:dicka@cuug.ab.ca & allend@internode.net Honey. Bees, & Art ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 Jun 1996 22:59:06 -0600 Reply-To: allend@internode.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Allen Dick Organization: The Beekeepers Subject: Re: Bears and platforms > My own experience as well as other's exp that I have read > about indicates that once the bruin has sampled a particular > bee yard there is precious little that you can do to prevent > return engagements, short of hunting the animal down and > killing it (not particularly easy since they are primarily > nocturnal). Therefore prevention is the key. Cautions about lethal voltages and currents and also continuous, rather than pulsing shocks can't be overemphasized. Standard fencers are legal, insurable, and reasonably safe. AFAIK, they don't start many fires or kill peopleand pets , and are to be recommended for those reasons. An important part of using a fence is making the bear aware of it. A large bear wandering around in the dark can amble thru a fence before he knows what happened -- and then he is inside and your fence is down. For this reason the beemen in the peace country hang sardine cans on haywire on each side of the yard. They then make a few nail holes in each can. That way, the bear is bound to experience the fence first with his tongue, not some furry, insulated part. After the initial encouter most bears are not too eager to try for more. Regards Allen W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper VE6CFK RR#1, Swalwell, Alberta Canada T0M 1Y0 Internet:dicka@cuug.ab.ca & allend@internode.net Honey. Bees, & Art ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 8 Jun 1996 15:07:36 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "David. E. Goble" Subject: Re: red clover >I am new to bee keeping and have a ranch with a fair amount of red >clover in my pastures plus white clover. I have herd conflicting >information on pollination of red clover by honey bees. Can someone give >me the straight scoop wether honey bees pollinate and obtain nector from >red clover? One says they get nector and pollinate only the >later flowers in summer. Or is it they only pollinate and not get >nector? Thanks Robert Cessac > >K-B Ranch >Natural Beef > >2362 St. Rt. O >Higbee, MO. 65257 >816-248-5201 > >rcessac@mail.coin.missouri.edu > Hi Robert, No red clover does not need pollination as it is self pollinating, however bees gather some store of pollen and nectar (honey) from red clover. White clover however does need the bees, their assistance will increase the flowering and the seed quality and quanity for seed production. There are new strains of clover that have been geneticly changed in many areas like self polination, seed set and growth periods. Thanks from : goble@eastend.com.au http://www.eastend.com.au/~goble degob1@mugc.cc.monash.ed.au ( David Goble ) American Beach Kangaroo Island South Australia ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 8 Jun 1996 06:39:24 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Gert Walter Subject: Sting treatment? ------------------------- Begin Original ------------------------- What's the recommended initial treatment for multiple bee stings? ------------------------- End Original ------------------------- Assuming one is not allergic: get the stingers out, ice, benadryl (diphenhydramine) for swelling and itching, and avoid multiple stings. Even if one is not allergic, enough toxin can be injected to make one sick. Any trouble breathing or swallowing - call 911 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 8 Jun 1996 06:53:17 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Gert Walter Subject: Old syrup and pollen patties Hi, great discussion group. Two questions at the end of our wet spring. 1) Any problem with reusing old unused sugar syrup that has mold floating in it? I freeze it after filtering out the mold and cleaning the containers. It doesn't smell fermented. 2) Unused pollen patties seem to be very dry. Can they be reused as is or should they somehow be moistened? Thanks Gert Walter ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 8 Jun 1996 23:21:05 +1300 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Peter Bray Subject: Re: America's honeybees Ted Fischer wrote: > REGARDING RE>America's honeybees > >Walter Patton writes: >"The big question is why H Shimunaki U.S.D.A. did not mention the >hopeless situation facing U. S. beekeepers when their bees have mites > and viruses which may be being introduced to the U.S. beekeepers >from Canadian Bees entering the U.S. after being imported and > thus introducing and spreading honeybee pest and diseases > with total disregard for the intent of the Honey Bee Act of 1922 >which had a strict prohibition against the import of honeybees > to the U.S. for the specic verbadium purpose to "prevent the introduction >and > spread of pests and diseases to U.S. honeybees." H. Shimunaki since > his paid consultancy and paid 6 or 8 week vacation for he and his wife to >New Zealand has had no concern for New Zealand bees being allowed > into the U.S. via Canada without regard for the original intent > of the Honeybee Act of 1922. Further H. Shimunaki allowed for a > Federal Registry notification to be published stating that the > U.S.D.A., Secretary of Agriculture had found New Zealand > to be free of any pests and diseases of honeybees, a fraudulent >statement, WHY? Beekeepers of America need new leadership >at the U.S.D.A. with peer review to solve the problems with >honeybees in the United States of America." > >I have hesitated up till now to enter this fray, but I can't help it any >longer. Except from Mr. Patton, I have never heard that there was any >disease or mite problem with New Zealand bees. Just the contrary - Canadian >beekeepers have been prohibited (until now at least) from importing American >bees because of *our* mite problem, and have had to get them all the way from >New Zealand or raise the bees themselves (a better approach anyway). Why >does Mr. Patton claim that Dr. Shimunaki's statement about New Zealand bees >is fraudulent? Let's have some hard *facts* about this, or otherwise drop >the subject. > >Ted Fischer > reason New Zealand is singled out in this issue is explained by the economics of the situation rather than any danger New Zealand bees may pose as threat to the US beekeeping industry. New Zealand has been exporting queen bees to Canada since the late '60s. Long before any border closures, Canadian beekeepers wanted another source of bee stock other than the US. Some reasons for this included, some individuals' preference for NZ beestock, price, and an alternative in case of a disaster in the US beekeeping industry. This disaster (Varroa and Tracheal Mites) is now history and the border between the US and Canada was subsequently closed. This event put a great deal of strain on US queen and package producers (and the recipient Canadian beekeepers not overwintering their bees), and mounted a great deal of pressure on both sides to reopen the border again. However the alternative beestock available from NZ and Australia gave the Canadians the option of keeping the border closed thus slowing the inevitable spread of the two mites. At the point that the Canadian border closed, New Zealand queen and package exporters started to come under increasing scrutiny from some in the US beekeeping industry, particularly those that had a vested interest in getting the border open again. The clear (but hidden) strategy of making it difficult or impossible to airfreight queens and packages from Australia and New Zealand to Canada, was to try and force the border open again. It all culminated a couple of years ago when right at the crucial time of the year when all the queens and packages were due to move, Hawaii and Continental US were closed to the passage of bees from NZ., completely stopping trade through airports that had been transit points for 25 years. This move caused a great deal of difficulty for both sides of the NZ and Canadian trade, with many Canadians not getting NZ stock they had been receiving annually for many years. Hawaiian beekeepers have been trying to say for some time that because they did not have Varroa and Tracheal mites they should be allowed to send bees to Canada (and thereby pick up on what they see as a lucrative trade). Hence their desire to try and prevent the passage of bees from Australia and NZ via Hawaii thus (hopefully) force the Canadians to reopen the border - at least to them anyway. Much of the debate has centred around NZ having Kashmir Bee Virus (KBV) and Half Moon Disorder (HMD) and the claim that these are "unknown" and "what might they do in *our* circumstances". The last importation of beestock into New Zealand was in the 1950s and it is therefore probable that KBV was in our stock then. With trade of bees around the World it is probable that KBV is in the category of endemic, relatively harmless and widespread. To date, any country that has been examined for it specifically, has shown to have it, including the US. HMD occurs everywhere. How do we know? Because it has been isolated (By Dr. Dennis Anderson - Australia) to a lack of adequate nutrition of the young queen prior to mating. This nutrition is directly related to the number of correct aged nurse bees in the mating nuc/hive. This causes faulty development of the queen's ovaries leading to larvae that are rejected by the feeding nurse bees whereupon they *die of starvation*. Why was HMD discovered in NZ at such a late date? Because we don't have EFB here. Larvae with EFB *starve* due to competition from bacteria in their gut. In HMD and EFB, the young larvae die at the same age from starvation. Result? *Identical* visual symptoms. Around the World it is almost certain that HMD is routinely diagnosed as EFB and hence no further explanation is ever sought. Only in New Zealand with its absence of EFB did the HMD mystery attract enough attention to enable it to be explained. The lumping of HMD into the case against NZ beestock only serves to highlight the weakness in the arguments to date and show them for what they are, zoosanitary trade barriers used in an effort to gain a trade/economic advantage. The unfortunate aspect of this is that misrepresentation of the many "facts" put up in these arguments tend to adversely affect the improvement of our knowledge of our benefactor - the honeybee. ---------------------------------------------------------------- Peter Bray, Airborne Honey Ltd., PO Box 28, Leeston, New Zealand Fax 64-3-324-3236, Phone 64-3-324-3569 p.bray@netaccess.co.nz ---------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 8 Jun 1996 07:28:52 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Gert Walter Subject: Old syrup and pollen patties Hi great discussion group. I have two questions at the end of our wet spring. 1) Can sugar syrup that has not been used by the bees be reused if it has mold floating in it? I freeze it after filtering it and cleaning out the containers. It does't smell fermented. 2) Can unused pollen patties be reused as is? They seem to dry out. Do they need to be remoistened in some way? Thanks Gert Walter GWALTER@MEM.PO.COM ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 8 Jun 1996 11:40:51 GMT Reply-To: johntrn@ldd.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: John Taylor Organization: midwest.net Subject: Re: Peanut Honey?? In-Reply-To: On Fri, 7 Jun 1996 15:58:03 BST, you wrote: >I don't know, but it reminds me that peanut butter and honey together make >a great sandwich filling! > >Anybody else tried this combination ? > >Steve My Uncle in Iowa started me on that one Summer over 20 years ago. I was helping him on the farm and that was lunch one day. It still tasted great now. -- John Taylor -- Southeast Missouri When in danger, or in doubt, run in circles, scream and shout! ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 8 Jun 1996 12:38:06 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "(Kevin & Shawna Roberts)" Subject: Re: Q: Hiving swarm - escapade and questions >Last year after 20 years beekeeping I encountered my first >queenless swarm. It was a ragged, flighty mass of bees covering >the corner of a house roof. We had a similar problem once with the second swarm we ever collected. The swarm had landed on a bicycle path and someone had run over it, killing the queen. The bees just wouldn't stay in the box. It took us a while to figure out that the queen was dead, but my husband eventually found her and put her body in the box. After that the bees went right in. When we got home, we gave them a frame of brood. They made their own queen and lived happily ever after (to the best of my knowledge...). We named the hive "Off the Beaten Path". Shawna ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 8 Jun 1996 19:04:04 +0100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Sid Pullinger Subject: Spring Feeding Replying to the above, there are two completely different ways of spring feeding and they should not be confused. If for lack of enough feed in autumn or a long cold spring a stock is running low on stores then it must be given a large quantity of strong syrup to top up. This has nothing to do with so-called stimulative feeding when small quantities of weak syrup are given at intervals, a kind of artificial nectar flow. It is considered by many to encourage egg production for an early build up. Equally, many think it has no effect and is a waste of time and money so you take your choice. In the case quoted above, if it was carried out correctly, offering a small amount at a time of one to one sugar and water, I cannot see it could do any harm. If so I have been harming my bees for many years. I treat for nosema in the spring and this acts as a carrier for Fumidil. Also bees need water in early spring to dilute stores (a reason for a water supply in every apiary) and this may help in cold weather. It makes a nice little subject to argue over. I have seen reports of tests carried out but as far as I know there is no strong evidence either way. With only six hives it is quite possible that it was pure chance that those three failed. Now if it had been a case of sixty hives and most of the thirty fed failed we should have had a strong case. Regards Sid P. _________________________________________________________________ Sid Pullinger Email : sidpul@aladdin.co.uk 36, Grange Rd Compuserve: 100343.1216@compuserve.com Alresford Hants SO24 9HF England ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 8 Jun 1996 08:05:26 -1000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Walter Patton Regarding Ted Fisher request for New Zealand Honeybee health report Mr. Cliff Van Eaton, Agricultural Advisory Officer MAF Quality Management, Tauranga,New Zealand Wrote to bee-l and reported the following list of pest and disease known to exist on NZ honeybees 4/19/96 1American Foul Brood 2 Nosema 3Chalkbrood 4Sacbrood 5 cronic bee paralysis 6 black queen cell 7 acute bee paralysis virus 8 cloudy wing virus 9 bee virus X 10 bee virus Y 11 filamentous virus 12 KASHMIR BEE VIRUS 13 Amoeba disease Mites 14 Melittiphis alvearius 15 Acarapis externus 16 A. dorsalis 17 Neocypholaelaps zealandicus And not reported by Cliff Van Eaton 18. Melanoius found to be on NZ honetbees by Dr. T.P.Liu in Canada Note the claim that NZ is free of EFB is doubted by all old time bee keepers that I have interviewed.This claim that NZ is free of EFB has in the past been an effective zoosanitary trade barrier which has been an effective trade and economic tool for the NZ honeybee industry as this claim prevents any honeybees, honey and or used equipment from entering NZ . To prove a negative in science is much more difficult and under peer review would require extensive testing. The NZ folks know they are weak in their claim about EFB. Now the NZ people will try to say many of these have no economic impact on honeybees and they are still called pests and disease of honeybees. Dr. B. V. Ball says and I quote without permission from Dr. Ball's paper accepted Feb. 20,1995 and printed in Great Britian "Characterisation and serological relationship of strains of Kashmir bee virus" "It has been suggested that APV and KBV occupy the same ecological niche (Anderson1991 ) and indeed there is good evidence that both viruses persist as inapparent infections in nature and are probably transmitted in a similar manner, via the salivary gland secretions of adult bees and the food to which these secretions are added (Baily, 1976; Anderson, 1991). However, APV has only been found to be a cause of mortality in nature in honey bee colonies infected with parasitic mite, Varroa jacobsoni, wheras KBV strains have been detected directly by serology, in amounts sufficient to have been responsible for mortality, in extracts of dead bees from colonies in Australia, New Zealand , Fiji,and Canada , in the absence of the mite. KBV was originally isolated from Apis cerana which has a limited natural distribution in south-east Asia. The occurrence of strains of KBV has now been confirmed in Apis mellifera on the continents of North America, Europe and Australasia ( New Zealand included) but its origins in this bee species remain obsure. KBV may be more widely distributed than previously thought BUT ,similarly to APV may have remained undetected in some areas of the world until the advent of V.jacobsoni and the consequent increasd interest in honey bee viruses.ALTERNATIVELY, trade in live bees may have introduced virus strains to new areas." In responce to Peter Bray posting When 1/2 truths and truth distortion are employed in trying to make ones point all of the contents become subject.Mr Bray attempts to make my concerns sound like trade barrier issuses. Quite the contrary as I am only interested in the good of US and Hawaii honeybees which because of our isolation may have been spared to introduction of some of the pest and disease listed above and in the absense of facts I tend to want to go slowly with any movement of bees through Hawaii. I have nothing to gain as I am a very small time keeper of the bees. My concerns are felt by other Hawaii beekeepers and my efforts are not motivatied by a desire to be able to sell/ship bees to Canada as suggested by Mr. Bray. This is by the way a complete distortion of the facts as Hawaii is approved to export bees to Canada and has been approved since mid 80's. Our bees for export are varified by a state department of ag . entomologist with in 90 days of shipping to be free of V & T mite and other infectious bees disease. My concerns are for the protection of the bio-logical isolation that Hawaii has enjoyed as the most isolated place on earth. The facts about KBV are not clear and subject to much debate and until a peer review panel has sorted out the truth I vote for beeing careful when departing from the original intent of the Honeybee Act of 1922 which was established to "prevent the introduction and SPREAD of pests and diseases of honeybees to the United States." The practice of shipping NZ bees through Hawaii always was a violation of the intent of the Act and NZ and any U.S. officals involved in the circumvention of the law should be proscecutted. All of this has now changed as the Honeybee Act has been gutted of it's original strict prohibition against the import of bees to the u.S. by GATT and the World Trade Organization and is now left up to the disscretion of the U.S.D.A. secretary of Agriculture whose decission regarding honeybee issues is most influenced by the imput of the head of honeybee research in America H. Shimanuki who has expressed no concern and only support of NZ bees coming to America since his consultanting with the NZ bee industry in the mid 80's . I hope this posting will wake up some of the readers that this is not some made up issue but a true concern for American Beekeepers who are in need of help and protection if needed. The Japanese allow NZ bees to stop and refuel on the way to their northern hemisphere customers but they can not unload. Hawaii is a key break and distribution point because of the huge number of non stop direct flights to Canada and the United States to which NZ still desire to sell their end of season bees. Hoping everyone a honey of a week end Walter Patton Walter & Elisabeth Patton, 27-703 A Ka' ie'ie Rd., Papaikou HI.,96781 Ph./Fax. 808-964-5401 E-Mail hihoney@ilhawaii Beekeeper and Bed & Breakfast Owner in Hawaii http://www.alohamall.com/hamakua/hihoney.htm http://www.alohamall.com/hamakua/beeware.htm http://www.alohamall.com/hamakua/lamalani.htm ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 8 Jun 1996 07:47:18 -0600 Reply-To: allend@internode.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Allen Dick Organization: The Beekeepers Subject: Re: America's honeybees > Hawaiian beekeepers have been trying to say for some time that > because they did not have Varroa and Tracheal mites they should be > allowed to send bees to Canada (and thereby pick up on what they see > as a lucrative trade). Hence their desire to try and prevent the > passage of bees from Australia and NZ via Hawaii thus (hopefully) > force the Canadians to reopen the border - at least to them anyway. Tens of thousands of queens from Hawaii are routinely imported into Western Canada annually in the past few years. Imports are now allowed from Hawaii, due to their proven freedom from mites and AHB. These queens provide a source after the natural season in NZ and Aus. There is now a movement afoot in Alberta to request re-examination of the border closure in light of the high losses this past year, the (slowly) increasing incidence of mites in Canada, and the belief that the varroa mite can be managed. The substandard quality of packages from a major NZ shipper, the shortage and quality of queens, and punitively high prices are driving the movement. Of course the outcome is far from certain, since the majority of beekeepers across Canada have to concur -- unless some larger social good is cited, and there are large areas that are now mite free that would quickly become infested should package trade with the US resume. And there is the AHB to consider too. Regards Allen W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper VE6CFK RR#1, Swalwell, Alberta Canada T0M 1Y0 Internet:dicka@cuug.ab.ca & allend@internode.net Honey. Bees, & Art ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 8 Jun 1996 17:03:08 GMT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Franklin D. Humphrey Sr." Subject: Re: Tracial mites(Spelling) At 03:42 AM 6/4/96 +0000, you wrote: >I am new to this list as I have just started keeping bee's (two new hives). >If this is a rehashing of old topics I apologize. > >I understand that a patty can be made to keep down tracial mites using >wintergreen. My question is would one made with pepermint work just as well >or better or not at all? If it does work does anyone have a recipe for >this? > I don't know about wintergreen but menthol is, I'm told, derived from peppermint. I use a spray made by mixing 2 ml peppermint oil with 1 quart of 1:1 sugar syrup to combat tracheal mites. This is sprayed directly on the bees in early spring and during summer after the honey supers have been removed. I also keep grease patties on the bees all the time, medicated in winter and unmedicated during honey production. It has been almost 2 years since I've used any menthol an my bees and I haven't lost any to tracheal mites, knock wood. Frank Humphrey beekeeper@worldnet.att.net Franklin D. Humphrey Sr. beekeeper@wornet.att.net ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 8 Jun 1996 13:27:17 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Cullin Hall Subject: Free Honey? I have a friend that has given me his old hives and a couple of supers = full of honey. He has kept the honey in a refrigerator since last = winter when found that his bees were dead. The wax in the Brood chamber = is black. He says the bees just froze due to a cold winter. He did not = wrap the hive. They did not starve (one full super of honey). =20 How can I check or have it check for diseases before I put the honey on = one of my hives that needs feeding. I have gotten three swarms in the = last week. Yes I know I need to read the chapter on swarm prevention. = = = = = = = =20 I have checked two hives that have no brood. There are about ten queen = cells in each hive. In one a the queen has emerged and I think I saw = her in the hive. How long does it take a newly emerged queen to begin = laying? =20 What causes black wax in supers? Thanks, Cullin Hall 402 N. Holland St. Dallas, NC 28034 (704) 922-6953 Email cullin@loclnet.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 8 Jun 1996 16:32:00 GMT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Andy Nachbaur Organization: WILD BEE'S BBS (209) 826-8107 LOS BANOS, CA Subject: Re: red clover > No red clover does not need pollination as it is self pollinating, >however bees gather some store of pollen and nectar (honey) from red clover. Could be true on the island you live on, but here in Central California I spent several years supplying bees to seed companies and farmers to pollinated several verities of Red Clover, such as Kenland red, and I am sure they would be very happy to hear that you can do it without honeybees. Sure would save them a lot of money and extra effort at protecting honeybees when it comes time to protect the crop from those bad bugs who always seen ready to demand their share of the crop. The red clover seed growing has moved off to other places and little can be found in California now, but large acreages of common and certified white clover fields still are grown each year in Northern California. Red clover here was not sought after by beekeepers for honey production, but would produce a skimpy crop because of the 4+ hives per acre used to pollinate it, the honey was off white in color. It has been my experience in working bees for clover honey in Western Colorado and in other states that the soil and moisture conditions make all the difference in the world to honey production and I am sure seed production as well. In Colorado we had several large acreages of the much touted alsak' clover from Canada for hay and at our altitude 6,000+ feet it grew good, bloomed good, but never produced enough nectar that the bees could reach it. It stunk, and these fields of bloom was enough to excite this old beeman, but never a honey flow in several years trying. At the same time the yellow and white sweet clovers would produce good crops, also the small white dutch clover that had taken over the local back nine of the golf course was a real hot spot for several yards of bees. GOD bless the liberal American democrats who paid for these golf club's in such far out places, just too bad the government subsidies and money ran out. The poor American beeman is getting hit by government cutback from every direction. No more honey subsidies, or new wilderness golf course's, honey loans, bee research, and just at a time when all the wild honey bees are dieing out, (so some say), no wonder the price of honey is almost at the level of parity of 50 years ago. Beekeepers who can get a good crop and sell it at today's price will experience the middle class life and pay some taxes for the first time in a generation. Maybe we should find some more government programs to cut. ttul, OLd Drone (c) Permission is granted to freely copy this document in any form, or to print for any use. (w) Opinions are not necessarily facts. Use at own risk. (D) Donations are accepted in CASH any currency always welcome. --- ~ QMPro 1.53 ~ "Where there is honey, there are beekeepers" ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 8 Jun 1996 18:47:00 GMT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Andy Nachbaur Organization: WILD BEE'S BBS (209) 826-8107 LOS BANOS, CA Subject: Re: America's honeybees PB>From: Peter Bray >Date: Sat, 8 Jun 1996 23:21:05 +1300 >Subject: Re: America's honeybees PB>At the point that the Canadian border closed, New Zealand queen and package >exporters started to come under increasing scrutiny from some in the US >beekeeping industry, particularly those that had a vested interest in >getting the border open again. The clear (but hidden) strategy of making it >difficult or impossible to airfreight queens and packages from Australia and >New Zealand to Canada, was to try and force the border open again. This is becoming joke able if it was not so serious to those directly involved in Hawaii and Canada and to a very few beekeepers in New Zealand mostly with government or political connections of one flavor or another who now enjoy landing rights for bees in shipment to Canada at Hawaii's international airports, a political decision that was made under strong protest from Hawaii's beekeepers and with some heavy lobbying by interests other then American or Hawaiian beekeepers. Nothing is being hidden or held back in the United States or Hawaii or is there any different strategy then what you yourself would expound. Beekeepers in Hawaii have every reason and "the right in America" to be concerned about protecting their own interests and the health of their bees as you have your own interests which you would have us believe is not one of someone who does not have a so called "hidden agenda" to take advantage of a closed Canadian market for bees. The Hawaiian beekeeper's agenda is that they do not want to risk what they have that "they" feel is valuable to them. New Zealand's agenda is that they want to export what they have and there is "no risk", at least to their selves, but then they would not allow US queens or bee's into New Zealand with 50 lbs of regulatory paper work as they know the real value of their own bees and our's and their regulatory systems. It is not if Hawaii could supply all the bees needed by Canadian beekeepers which they can not. But I am sure if the most experienced beekeepers, (beekeepers who have used both sources of stock), American's or Canadian's had a real choice in the matter between New Zealand and Hawaiian bees they would buy all they could get from Hawaiian as the Hawaiian bees do have a, how to say it without hurting your feeling, "bees from Hawaii enjoy a better track record with beekeepers in this hemisphere, other then with some regulators, and foreign bee lobbyists, and in every other market Hawaiian bees are in". Sure American bee breeders and many Canadian honey producers would like to see the boarder to the north open again, but there is much doubt that the US could supply the demand for package bees as in the past or would they want to and for certain not at the low prices the Canadian's enjoyed since WW II. It is NOT true that Hawaiian beekeepers are working with so called other dark interests to force open the Canadian boarder. To do so they would be cutting their own market if you believe that kind of tripe...at the same time we all should try to put ourselves in the Hawaiian beekeepers shoes, would you let bees from California use your landing areas in transit from one place to another? But then maybe you have not experienced the unplanned off loading of bees in shipment, and the unexplained numbers of packages and queens lost in shipment. "If it has value it will experience unexplained loss" is the rule in the world of air transport and the reason we all spend so much for air freight insurance and it creates employment and jobs for our national security police, (the FBI), and many public and private security agencies. As far as Canadian beekeepers are concerned today, to open the boarder to all US bees could, because of NAFTA and other changing trade and travel agreements, risks opening the door to US bees and beekeepers in numbers that could make it impossible for Canadian's to compete and a darn good reason to keep it closed from the Canadian's beekeeper's point of view. With $$ honey that north country looks very green from the hot dry areas of the western US. I am sure California could supply 500 semi loads with a weeks notice any day of the year for shipment into some of the worlds best bee pastures in Canada that were originally mostly opened by US and Canadian beekeepers working together in days long past. BTW It does bother me that New Zealand's beekeepers or regulatory people are such vocal experts on the regulatory politics and interests of the American bee breeders and the Canadian bee buyers. I would think that it would be better for their own self interests in New Zealand to keep to the subject of New Zealand bees in transit having landing rights at international airports in Hawaii, a real gift of the trade winds, that they now enjoy under close Hawaiian Department of Agriculture regulation. This right is in the end a fragile political decision based on bee science, (BS), and could be changed at any time with the proper regulatory challenge, politically, or through the US courts, as this is more then a economical issue between New Zealand and a small dollar market in Canada, but one that reeks of environmental risks and dangers that should be of keen interest to one or more groups not connected or even friendly with beekeepers and with little concern with the economic benefits to anyone. ttul Andy- Los Banos, California (c) Permission is granted to freely copy this document in any form, or to print for any use. (w)Opinions are not necessarily facts. Use at own risk. --- ~ QMPro 1.53 ~ SDI = [S]o what about [D]omestic [I]ssues? ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 8 Jun 1996 16:38:01 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Dave Green, Eastern Pollinator Newsletter" Subject: Re: "America's honeybees are in a bad way". Comments: To: allend@internode.net In a message dated 96-06-08 15:27:04 EDT, Allen Dick wrote to me in private correspondance of some unclear statements I made. >> Wheat we've seen has been clean of >> mustard, or else perhaps hasn't been sprayed. The martins and >> swallows may have done a sufficient job. They sure were "swarming" >> over the wheat fields. > >What are we saying here? > >Are you talking about herbicides? > >Do the birds eat the mustard? Boy is this ever fuzzy! I am sorry, and will try to proofread more carefully next time. Most damage we've had in the early spring is from wheat spraying, which should not be a problem, as wheat is not attractive to bees. However, the wild mustard is a common weed in wheat fields, and foraging bees are killed by the application. This is, of course a label violation, to apply while bees are foraging, even though they are not on the crop; they are on a weed in the application area. The pest for which the application is made is, I believe, a fly, which causes damage just before the wheat heads. I cannot recall the name of the fly (perhaps Hessian Fly??). The martins and swallows were working these fields heavily this year, and may have caused sufficient control. I did not see any pesticide applications being made; they normally are aerial, and pretty obvious. I observed the martins and even more so, the swallows, concentrating on wheat fields for about two weeks. It was obvious that they were feeding heavily on something that was only over the wheat. In fact I got kind of high, watching them do their thing. -Obviously a kind of biological control..... Hope this helps clear the muddy waters. I'll pass it on to the list also, in case anyone else found it confusing. Pollinator@aol.com Dave Green, PO Box 1200, Hemingway, SC 29554 Practical Pollination Home Page Dave & Janice Green http://users.aol.com/pollinator/polpage1.html ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 8 Jun 1996 21:35:12 +0100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Paul Walton Subject: WOW - What a swarm !!!!!! I am sure that many of you will have been called upon to deal with swarms before. Many of you may even have dealt with larger swarms than this, but, for me this was a *BIG* swarm. I was busy working on an MBA assignment around mid-morning yesterday when the phone rang; a lady in a neighbouring village had a swarm in her garden and could I please come and deal with it (sound familiar?). Well, off I go with the usual bits and pieces in the boot of my car, confident that it would be all wrapped up in 10-15 minutes. How wrong I was! This swarm was easily 2 1/2 foot long, 18 inches wide, and 2 foot deep with quite a few bees flying around the branch that they had alighted on. It was a little too high to reach them with a step-ladder so we borrowed an extension-ladder from a neighbour. I had brought a 6-comb Langstroth swarm box to put them in but I thought a cardboard box would be much easier to manouvre at the top of a ladder. Anyway, up the ladder I went, suitably attired in veil and bee-suit, intending to give the branch a thump and watch the bees drop en-masse into the cardboard box below. Why is it that nothing ever goes as planned? The first trip up the ladder I must have got about half of them into the box. The rest of them either swung precariously on the branch or flew into the air. I took my cargo back down the ladder, thumped the cardboard box on the sides until the bees formed a nice big pile in the middle. Then I took a few frames out of the swarm box and up-ended the contents of the cardboard box into it. Easy. It took me four more trips up that ladder to get all but the stragglers into the swarm box. With the lid placed over the box at an angle to allow fanning-bees to encourage the remainder into the box, I retired to the shade for a drink (it was 33 degrees C !). I had another errand to run so I left a manipulation cloth over the swarm box to provide a little shade for the bees and promised to return a couple of hours later. By that time, I knew that they would all be safely tucked-up inside the box. Upon my return, there were probably a dozen or so bees still flying around the swarm box (which is about what I expected). I replaced the lid and jammed a cork into the entrance hole (N.B. my swarm box has adequate ventilation to prevent them from over-heating during transport). By the time I arrived at my apiary, about an hour later, this swarm had already commenced work drawing out the five frames of foundation that I had provided (the sixth frame being drawn out and containing unsealed stores). I transferred them carefully into a spare hive which I had set up about a week previously as a bait-hive and inserted the Bayvarrol strips to test for varroa. Although I didn't see the queen during this exercise, I suspect that she is present because they were so eager to draw out the foundation ready for laying (it was half drawn-out by the time I housed them in their new home). If, when I inspect them again in about a week, there is no queen I intend to transfer a frame of eggs from another colony so that they can raise their own. This was the biggest swarm that I have ever dealt with and I was amazed at how quickly they drew out the foundation. The lady who called me was grateful to be rid of them (and suprised that I wouldn't accept payment) but learned a lot about bees in the process. All-in-all, a good day! -- Paul Walton Paul@adrem.demon.co.uk Toddington, Bedfordshire, England. Tel. +44 (0)1525 875570 ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 9 Jun 1996 10:50:44 +1100 Reply-To: nickw@wave.co.nz Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Nick Wallingford Organization: Nat Beekeepers Assn of NZ Subject: NZ/Hawaii... *************************** Many readers of this list do not want to read more of this issue. I propose that all related postings use the Subject: of this message "NZ/Hawaii" to allow those who are NOT interested to delete without reading... *************************** First, a reminder that the list of pests and diseases referred to are not those 'known to exist' in New Zealand. It is the complete list of everything that has ever been found into the past. One might be very hard pressed to find some of them again... > Note the claim that NZ is free of EFB is doubted by all old time bee > keepers that I have interviewed. > The NZ folks know they are > weak in their claim about EFB. By any and all recognised scientific, practical and regulatory means of measurement, over a long period of time, by many beekeepers, advisory staff, inspectors and scientists, NZ states that there is no EFB here. Mr Patton feels differently. I would simply ask that he supply some evidence apart from his feelings. 'Peer review' to which Mr Patton refers regularly demonstrate NZs freedom from EFB in thoroughly reputable and reliable manner. Mr Patton's doubt of this indicates a basic problem with personalities rather than scientific method. (\ Nick Wallingford {|||8- home nickw@wave.co.nz (/ work nw1@boppoly.ac.nz NZ Beekeeping http://www.wave.co.nz/pages/nickw/nzbkpg.htm ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 8 Jun 1996 19:06:30 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Tim Peters Subject: Re: Bears and platforms At 10:11 PM 6/7/96 -0500, Frand Humphrey wrote: >Hi Tim > >Did you know that your car is capable of approximately 6000 revolutions pre >minute and that the plugs fire at half that rate? Did you also know that a >capacitor discharge ignition system is used to furnish those 50,000volt >pulses 3000 times a minute? And did you know that this is also the same >system used in fence chargers? The main difference is that fence chargers >are designed to work slower to make the battery last longer. The old brush >burner type fence chargers are very hard to find because they tend to start >fires and their sale is forbidden in most states. Also most fence chargers >only use about 6000 volts. If you really want to deter bears, go to an >auto parts store and get a high performance electronic ignition system and >take to your local community college and have them design a trigger circuit >for about 2 to 3 thousand pulses per minute and mount the whole thing in a >weather proof box. Believe me, 50,000 volt 2000 times per min. will deter >the most determined bear. > Frank: Thanks for your comments. I had not considered the merits of present day automotive electronic technology. Now that you mention it, I do recall reading about the voltage values possible with electronic ignition systems. A set-up that you suggest would indeed prove to be a magnificant challenge to the most determined bear. I'm not sure that this method would be cost effective for a hobbyist. >Now the main reason I' replying to your post is that you are suggesting >using household AC voltage and current to deter bears. These voltages kill >more people in the US each year than all others combined. It only takes 1/2 >amp of current through your heart to kill.. 120 VAC and 240 VAC is not high >enough to knock human loose form the contact but does cause muscle >contraction. At this point the human body is electrocuted. Now is someone >stagers into your bear trap at night by mistake, you are going to have a >dead person on your hand, make no mistake about it. This is not something >I would not want on my conscience. I would definitely not want this type of accident on my conscience either. I failed to explain my situation clearly. I live in the Northeastern corner of Vermont. My town has 358 people in a 30 sq mi area. If you look up "boondocks" in the dictionary you'll see a picture of Kirby. My driveway is 1.5 mi from the nearest paved road and my driveway is .75mi long. Other than the driveway there is no access to my property. The house is located on a ridge midway up our 1600' "mountain". There is a large hayfield below the house and heavy forest above. No one staggers through any part of my 200 acres. We do have the occasional moose, bears and coyote wander by, but even they stay clear of the house and out buildings, for the most part. My hives are located about 50yds from the house, beyond a knoll that is behind the poultry coops. You have to want to go there to get there. As I said in my original post, this is not the method to use in a more populated area. It is the way in which I have dealt with the problem within my own unique set of circumstances. I am acutely aware of the dangers of 120V AC and I am not taking those dangers lightly. The system is only energized when I am home and if there is a situation where the risk is greater than my normal, the power is always secured. **************** To All interested parties: As I was thinking on this topic I remembered a low-tech solution that was given by someone who wrote a letter to the editor of Bee Culture Magazine. It was sometime back and I haven't been able to find the issue yet, so I can't give the person credit, but here is what I remember: Cut up sheets of 1/2" exterior grade plywood into strips 32" x 48" (3 to a 4'x8' sheet) and drive *many* 8d galv nails through the plywood. The resulting "pin cushions" would be placed front and rear of the hives with the nails sticking up, of course. Supposedly the bear won't cross over the nails to get to the hives. Drawbacks: its an awful lot of nailing if you have more than a couple of hives and it would be a pain to have to move them every time you went to work the hives. The most effective deterrent maybe being big, fat and ugly. On May 25th a young bear tipped over my stongest hive. He only did minor damage to two frames, mainly because I caught him in the act. It was 8AM and when I saw that the hive had been tipped over I went storming out. When I cleared the top of the knoll I found Mr. Bear sitting contentedly amidst the frames, munching away. I bellowed "GET THE HELL OUT OF THERE!!! He spun around, obviously suprised and started to move towards me. Confronted by a raging 6' 285lb madman, mr bear decided he wanted no part of what I was offering, and before I could do or say anything else, he ran down the hill, through the bog and up the mountain. I've been told how fast bears can move, and now I've witnessed it first hand. To date, the bear has not returned. Tim Peters, Kirby VT tpeters@kingcon.com KirBee Apiary, Bear Bait Honey I rather be flying! ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 8 Jun 1996 22:06:39 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ernest Caldwell Subject: Requeening a colony using queen cells Hi, All, Has anyone out there had any experience or do you have information on requeening colonies using queen cells? We have recently begun trying this method and would like input from anyone who has tried this method. What have been your success rates? Also, in the case where the queen cell is introduced into the colony, without killing the existing queen, what percentage of the time will the new, virgin queen kill the existing queen. Any information would be very helpfull. Regards, Ernest Caldwell Caldwell's Texas Honey San Antonio, Texas USA ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 8 Jun 1996 20:43:01 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Dick Subject: Re: Pollination of Soybeens >Thanks for the info.!!! Bill, Check out Erickson, E.H., 1975. "Effect of honey bees on yield of three soybean cultivars," Crop Sci. 15: 84-86. Seems he got a 5 bushel increase in Corsoy and Hark but not in Chippewa 64. Dick Strohl 2648 Inglewood Ave. S. St. Louis Park, MN 55416-3928 rstroh19@popmail.skypoint.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 8 Jun 1996 20:33:00 PDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: PB Services Dear all I have subscibed to bee-l, I keep getting all your mail. I only want to be able to open Bee-l when I want to . Is there any way I can do this without un-subscribing peter PB SERVICES ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 8 Jun 1996 21:32:07 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: _ You wrote: > >Dear all > >I have subscibed to bee-l, I keep getting all your mail. > >I only want to be able to open Bee-l when I want to . > >Is there any way I can do this without un-subscribing > > >peter >PB SERVICES hi, this is a mailing list NOT a newsgroup.... > -- End --