Received: from [169.226.1.21] by relay.internode.net (SMTPD32-3.02) id A6F0D6400CE; Tue, 12 Nov 1996 12:58:40 -0700 Received: from CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU by CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU (IBM VM SMTP V2R2) with BSMTP id 1306; Tue, 12 Nov 96 15:02:17 EST Received: from CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU (NJE origin LISTSERV@ALBNYVM1) by CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU (LMail V1.2c/1.8c) with BSMTP id 2358; Tue, 12 Nov 1996 15:02:10 -0500 Date: Tue, 12 Nov 1996 15:02:05 -0500 From: "L-Soft list server at ALBNYVM1 (1.8b)" Subject: File: "BEE-L LOG9606B" To: "W. Allen Dick" X-UIDL: 381 Status: U ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 9 Jun 1996 07:19:51 -0600 Reply-To: allend@internode.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Allen Dick Organization: The Beekeepers Subject: Re: Reading BEE-L at will > You wrote: > > > >Dear all > > > >I have subscibed to bee-l, I keep getting all your mail. > > > >I only want to be able to open Bee-l when I want to . > > > >Is there any way I can do this without un-subscribing Yes, It's simple. You do want to stay subscribed because you can't post or receive logs from the LISTSERV, etc. unless you are subscribed. Send a message to the LISTSERV@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU saying Set BEE-L NOMAIL You will get no mail. Then send a message saying SET BEE-L MAIL When you want it to resume. If you want all the mail, but in one package per day, SET BEE-L DIGEST If you don't want to get any mail, but you want to read BEE-L anyhow, SET BEE-L NOMAIL And then send a message to the LISTSERV when you want to read BEE-L saying GET BEE-L LOG9606 One message with all the messages posted in June (06) of 1996 (96) will be emailed to you within minutes or hours. Other logs can be had by changing '9606' to say, '9502' for Feb 1995 etc.. (Warning: The logs can be up to 1 Meg -- or more -- due largely to all the redundant quotes, 'me too' posts and vanity signatures favoured by some. They are small early in the month and become monsters by month end). Or Visit my website (below) , find the beekeeping section and go to the 'BEE-L Logs' section. You can read any of the logs for the entire history of BEE-L from there. All recent logs are about a meg, so be prepared to read mail or something while they are being retrieved by your brouser. Tip: Personally I run multiple windows -- usually four -- in Netscape (File menu, 'New web Brouser' option) and use one while others) are filling in in the background. Windows users who have the 'alt/tab' option enabled can switch windows by holding down the 'alt' key and pressing 'tab' until the correct window appears. I have not been as religious about keeping the logs up-to-date in the last few weeks because I've been busy. Someone reminded me yesterday, and they are pretty well current at present. Hope this helps. Anyone having problems related to the above is welcome to write me. But be warned, I am off now for a well-deserved two days of windsurfing and won't be able to reply til I'm back. PS: The LISTSERV also has capabilities that permit for searching for all posts on any topic. However whenever I have sat down to try to figure it out from the instructions, my eyes have glazed over and I've given up. Has anyone used this? If so I'd like to know how it worked. Is there a simple method? Regards Allen W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper VE6CFK RR#1, Swalwell, Alberta Canada T0M 1Y0 Internet:dicka@cuug.ab.ca & allend@internode.net Honey. Bees, & Art ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 9 Jun 1996 05:15:00 GMT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Andy Nachbaur Organization: WILD BEE'S BBS (209) 826-8107 LOS BANOS, CA Subject: NZ/Hawaii... NW>From: Nick Wallingford >To: Multiple recipients of list BEE-L >Date: Sun, 9 Jun 1996 10:50:44 +1100 >Subject: NZ/Hawaii... >Organization: Nat Beekeepers Assn of NZ NW>*************************** >Many readers of this list do not want to read more of this issue. NW>I propose that all related postings use the Subject: of this message >"NZ/Hawaii" to allow those who are NOT interested to delete without >reading... NW>*************************** Hoy Bee End Nick?, It would bee far better to stop the tread, renaming it does little but confuse some of us who read and hang on every word posted anyway. The way you stop the post is to take it person to person via e-mail or just stop responding and all agree to disagree, which is the way it is going to end in any case, but if you want to be disagreeable I am sure someone will oblige the challenge besides myself. California bees are better then any others anyway, and the proof is, ask any California beekeeper, California regulator, California educator, California scientist, or the dozen or so presidents of any of the local California bee association, the California Honey Board, or the California Apiary Board, the California Department of Food and Agriculture, the California Almond Growers, the Gov., And most of all the thousands of beekeepers from every corner of the road that has come to California to bee trained by our 500+ commercial beekeepers or to attend our University of California and study High Beekeeping in the last 50 years or so. I don't know of one New Zealand beekeeper who has come to California to keep bees, or show us how to do it but there may even be one of those stuck around here someplace as there have been dozens from every other part of the world who have set up in the bee business here and many have stayed with it, beekeepers from Holland to China all here because California bees are the best, it can't be the bee pasture it all burned up two months ago. I know I have had a New Zealand'er or two on the pay book in the past and I am sure at the time they would have said around pay day that California bees are the best in the whole world and I was A-OK and the worlds greatest boss if not the best beekeeper. NW>First, a reminder that the list of pests and diseases referred to >are not those 'known to exist' in New Zealand. It is the complete >list of everything that has ever been found into the past. One might >be very hard pressed to find some of them again... WOW, is that a stretch, I don't believe that you believe that, but if you or anyone else does I have some nice clean bees in California that I would be more then happy to export to New Zealand. Sure they once suffered from AFB, EFB, mites of every size and color, and virus named and un-named, and maybe even a few bad genes in their shady past, buy they don't show any signs of any of this today,,,could be because they are all dead? Honeybees suffer from pests, predators, and disease...this is a fact and one that is global and should be accepted as a fact of keeping bees. New Zealand may be proud of it bees and good on them for it but in reality their honeybees are not anything special compared to any honeybees from any other area of the world. All the bee talk in the world and the best bee science New Zealand or any place else can afford to buy will not change the fact. Pay my way over and I will write a honest report on how good your bees are, and pay me enough and I will make them good as gold. At the same time I am more then sure that New Zealand's honeybees are the one's that are best suited to beekeeping in New Zealand, but not knowing their roots, I can't say for sure but,, I suspect they are no different from the roots of the bees kept in this area of California by a few generations or so. NW>> Note the claim that NZ is free of EFB is doubted by all old time bee >> keepers that I have interviewed. > >> The NZ folks know they are weak in their claim about EFB. NW>By any and all recognised scientific, practical and regulatory means >of measurement, over a long period of time, by many beekeepers, >advisory staff, inspectors and scientists, NZ states that there is no >EFB here. Mr Patton feels differently. I would simply ask that he >supply some evidence apart from his feelings. Well Nick, if you once had it and its can't be found we would expect as expressed in earlier paragraph above you would not count it anyway and if you did find it I would not be concerned myself, but putting any kind of empathizes on the absence of any honeybee disease is a real invitation to disaster as some will say "why get bees that may die the first time they are exposed to something they have never experienced before" and from some reports losses were very high in Canada the winter of 95-96 which may still be on up there, and could it be the impact of importing stock from New Zealand for several years is catching up with the Canadian beekeepers gene pool? After all we all know everything runs backwards in New Zealand anyway. Toilets flush up or is it the vortex that runs backwards, summer in the winter, and boring green all year around with more mountain maggots then people. *Mountain maggots are what cattlemen in Western Colorado call the sheep. But in any case I don't doubt that you do not have what is referred to as EFB, I believe you! But I also believe as others may also believe that what is called EFB is an expression of several other pathogens and not specifically the EFB itself, and then it would not be found if you kept enough TM or other antibiotics in your bees or your bees lacked the right number of different pathogens at the same time or in the right order. I hope you never get it as it can cause very significant losses and here requires some antibiotic treatment prior to brood rearing to prevent it getting out of hand. In any case I enjoy your many practical beekeeping posts and if you want to be prideful and nationalistic thats OK with me, but please excuse others who also would like to do the same and God forbid any of those New Zealand bees escape into the pristine bee pastures of Hawaii... ttul Andy- (c) Permission is granted to freely copy this document in any form, or to print for any use. (w)Opinions are not necessarily facts. Use at own risk. --- ~ QMPro 1.53 ~ ... A comely olde man as busie as a bee. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 9 Jun 1996 19:57:39 +0200 Reply-To: beeman@kuai.se Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: P-O Gustafsson Subject: Re: Requeening a colony using queen cells Ernest Caldwell wrote: > Has anyone out there had any experience or do you have information on > requeening colonies using queen cells? We have recently begun trying this > method and would like input from anyone who has tried this method. What have > been your success rates? > > Also, in the case where the queen cell is introduced into the colony, without > killing the existing queen, what percentage of the time will the new, virgin > queen kill the existing queen. Hi Ernest, I have been requeening with ripe cells for some years. There are two different ways that I have been trying. First to put a cell in the top box of a hive without excluder, and without removing the old queen. In around 60% of the hives I had the new queen laying. In 20% there was the old lady still wandering around, and in 20% there was an F2 queen. When first removing the old queen I had success rate of around 80% ending up with the "right" queen. 20% F2 queens. There will be differences between years, weather and so on, but generally I'm satisfied with the result. I do the requeening when the main honey flow starts. Then the bees have been produced that's going to give me the crop. Three weeks without a laying queen during the flow increase that crop when there is no grubs to feed. This works on lat 60, with a short and intense summer. And it is average results. There can be big differences between years. I'm going to put more text about this on my homepage when I get time. -- Regards P-O Gustafsson, Sweden beeman@kuai.se http://www.kuai.se/~beeman/ ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 9 Jun 1996 15:31:44 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "(Kevin & Shawna Roberts)" Subject: Re: Bears and platforms Another solution to the bear problem that I haven't seen so far is quite simple, and works well in the United States. If the bear is destroying hives and hurting a commercial operation, go to the state Fish and Game Department and talk to them about a depredation permit. Get the permit, take your rifle, and shoot the bear. I don't know whether this option is available to non-commercial beekeepers, but it's the best system that I have seen here in California. You just have to have the time to do it. Kevin ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 9 Jun 1996 14:02:58 GMT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: G C Allison Subject: Re: Kinds of Hives In-Reply-To: <199606061307.OAA11380@typhoon.dial.pipex.net> Conrad Sigona asked: > > perhaps you folks can help out by providing descriptions of the hives= you use or maybe of the kind you remember - Hives I have seen in the UK are: Modified National - 18 1/8" square, single walled, bottom space holding = 11 British Standard [BS 14" x 8 1/2"] frames, comb area in deeps 2,200 sq = ins. - I use this type. Smith - 18 1/4" x 16 3/8" outside dimensions, top space, holding 11 BS = frames in deep giving 2,200 sq ins comb area, frame have short lugs like those in = USA. Wormit - like National but with rebated joints between crates and hollow = end walls WBC [after William Broughton Carr] - 19 7/8" square, double walled hive, = outside sections often painted, contains 10 BS frames giving 2,000 sq ins comb = area British Commercial - 18 1/8" outside dimensions, holding 11 16" x 10" fra= mes giving a comb area of 3,300 sq ins. Glen - large Scottish hive like an oversized WBC, double walled, hold 15 = BS frames giving 3,000 sq ins comb area, no longer sold commercially. I have not described Dadant or Langstroth hives which are commonplace in = the USA. If you would like pictures of the British hives I suggest that you = obtain a Steele & Brodie 1996 catalogue, Email steele&brodie@taynet.co.uk Geoff Allison Dalbeattie, scotland ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 Jun 1996 15:47:51 +1200 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Cliff Van Eaton Subject: New Zealand Bee Diseases In reply to Mr. Patton's message to BEE-L of June 8, 1996 , I would like to clarify the following points for subscribers: 1. My position with the NZ government is Apicultural Advisory Officer, not "Agricultural" Advisory Officer, as Mr. Patton states. 2. The disease described by Dr. Liu identified in his November 1991 American Bee Journal article is "melanosis", not "melanoius" as Mr. Patton states. 3. The disease "melanosis" was not included in the list of bee diseases present in New Zealand included in my April 19, 1996 posting because Dr. Liu's article did not state that the causitive organism of melanosis had been isolated, either in NZ bees, or in NZ queens introduced into Candian hives. While the title of the article identifies melanosis as a disease, and while Bailey and Ball in their work Honey Bee Pathology (2nd ed) state that "a micro-organism of a primitive type appearing to be transitional between yeasts and fungi has been found in the melanized (blackened) patches of epithelial tissue that surround nurse- and egg-cells of ovaries and the poison sac and rectum in queens", Dr. Liu did not state that the condition he found in some NZ queens was in fact caused by any specific organism. He stated that he found melanization (tissuing blackening) in the queens, but makes no mention of isolating any causative organism causing the melanization. Melanization is a a natural defense of insects against micro-organisms and/or tissue wounds, and can be caused by a number of factors. Melanization has been reported in queen bees in many areas of the world, and in my experience (both in NZ and Canada) can be found most often in aging queens. 4. Mr. Patton's states that all the old time beekeepers he has interviewed doubt that NZ is free of EFB. I am unsure as to what evidence these persons have for such a claim. However, the statement I made in my posting of April 19, 1996, that New Zealand is free of European foulbrood is based on a sound surveillance programme. Government apiculture personnel inspect 500 apiaries throughout NZ each year, with the apiaries chosen for their proximity to risk areas. Government apiculture personnel also carry out surveillance for the disease whenever they inspect beehives for any other reason (such as AFB inspection, export certification and pollination hive audits). Any suspect larvae are analysed microscopically at a government bee disease diagnostic laboratory, and those with Streptococcus-like particles are cultured to make a definitive diagnosis. All government apiculture personnel are fully trained in visual diagnosis of EFB symptoms, including familiarisation training in a country where EFB occurs (Australia, US, etc). The surveillance system is audited and subject to review by recognised overseas government agriculture officials and beekeeping industry representatives. 5. Mr. Patton states that the "claim that NZ is free of EFB has in the past been an effective zoosanitary trade barrier which has been an effective trade and economic tool for the NZ honeybee industry as this claim prevents any honeybees, honey and or used equipment from entering NZ". As I made clear in my posting of April 19, 1996, imports of honeybees, honey and other bee products are allowed entry into NZ provided they are determined to have a low risk of introducing exotic honey bee diseases. Millions of dollars of such products are imported into NZ each year. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 Jun 1996 14:29:19 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "David. E. Goble" Subject: Re: Scuba diving bees [snip] > >The comparison of bees and crabs is misleading. Sure, they both are >arthropods, but that is beside the point. Crabs, lobsters, etc, are water >dwellers, which breathe with gills. Bees are not, and are equipped with >spiracles leading to tracheal tubes which deliver air (oxygen) to each body >cell directly, as Ann recognizes in her original post. I think she had the >right idea in the first place, that small bubbles of air were carried down >into the fluid with the bee. > >Ted Fischer > Hi Ted, Alden and others; Crabs are in the phylum of Crustacea, and have 30,500 species of these invertebrates. If crabs had gills when they dig into the sand their gills would be covered by sand grains and suffocation would occur. The insect species from bees, flies, and mosquitoes are of the same principle as the rest of the invertebrate class. The breathing systems are all the same, with slightly evolved changes for each species. Fish and all other gill breathing animals are not in the invertebrate class. As they are vertebrates. Thanks from : goble@eastend.com.au http://www.eastend.com.au/~goble degob1@mugc.cc.monash.ed.au ( David Goble ) American Beach Kangaroo Island South Australia ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 Jun 1996 07:10:58 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Joel Govostes Subject: Re: Bears and platforms Yesterday I was discussing this problem with an old-timer down in the southern tier of New York State (where bears have been a problem over the years). He knew of one beekeeper who had good success with platforms of the following description: Nine feet or more off the ground, with trap door in center of platform. The platform itself extends out quite a bit beyond the supports. This plus the height make it practically impossible for bears to get to hives. Apiarist access to the platform is from underneath, thru the trap door. The pickup is driven right under to receive the honey supers. He mentioned some sort of pulley/lift arrangement possible for lowering the supers. The platform he described held 24 colonies; I'm not certain but think it was enclosed/screened. He did say the guy stored the empty supers and some spare equipment right there on the platform. I hope this is somehow useful; just thought this might lend some ideas in the discussion of the bear problem. Fortunately, bears are not (yet) a problem in central NY, altho' the population of bears coming up from southern (Pennsylvania) areas is on the increase, and they are a problem within a 40 minute's drive from where I am. WIth increased pressure they could become a local nuisance in time. Later... JWG ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 Jun 1996 13:34:11 GMT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Steve Pearce Subject: reequeening aggressive bees Hi everyone, I have a naturally aggressive hive, which someone has given me (lucky me). They seem healthy etc, but even on good days, during a flow and will fly off the combs and attack. It is virtually impossible to get through the brood box of these bees without a lot of trouble. They are in sharp contrast to my other bees which are very easy to handle. The books I have read say if a colony becomes aggressive for no obvious reason the then requeen it. The problem is I find I can't find the queen during my hurried and distracted inspections. Is there an easy way to get the old queen out, which doesn't involve a lot of disruption. Steve Scotland ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 Jun 1996 08:38:29 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Rick Grubbs Organization: Beekeeper Subject: Swarm Here's one that I can't explain. I had a hive swarm yesterday. After they left, I inspected the hive and found that they had taken all of the honey in the brood chamber with them. They left the food super and honey super alone. About 45 min later they returned and covered the front of the hive. Hoping to salvage some of the hive, I did a split and remove 3 frames and brood to a nuc. All seemed to be going ok, but this morning I took a look at the hive and noticed that there was a small fist sized cluster of bees underneath the hive. I captured this mini swarm, and put it with the rest of the bees in the nuc. I made sure that when I put frames in the nuc from the original hive that I chose one that had a good queen cell on it. My question is this what I should have done, or should I have taken another approach to this matter. -- *************************** * Charles (Rick) Grubbs * * digital@avana.net * * Douglasville, Ga SE USA * *************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 Jun 1996 14:38:38 GMT+2 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: MIKE ALLSOPP Organization: N.I.P.B VREDENBURG Subject: Honey Sticks Greetings all I have had an enquiry from a local (= South African) beekeeper about the technology, materials and machinery needed for the manufacture of honey-sticks - which he intends to market LOCALLY. Unfortunately I have no knowledge of such matters, and so is there anybody out there that can help me with names and addresses of any of the companies that produce the technology or equipment, or anyone who will share any other details with us. Many thanks Mike Mike Allsopp tel (27)(21) 887-4690 Honeybee Research Section fax (27)(21) 883-3285 Plant Protection Research Institute pmail plant3/vredma Agricultural Research Council email vredma@plant3.agric.za P/Bag X5017 Stellenbosch 7599 South Africa ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 Jun 1996 08:23:30 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Robert J. Cessac" Subject: Re: red clover In-Reply-To: <199606080535.PAA23627@eastend.com.au> Thank you all for the inputs on red clover. As one can see, there are many appenions on the subject. I have also heard that the honey bees can not reach the nector on the first bloom of red clover but can on the second. Does red clover produce a different sized flower later in the year? I am using more white clover in my pastures now also because it will last longer and is not any more expensive to establish, just a little more difficult. Have to make sure to remove top of established grass before June first. I also will be using more lespedeza to have nector later in the summer and early fall. Thanks again. Bob K-B Ranch Natural Beef 2362 St. Rt. O Higbee, MO. 65257 816-248-5201 rcessac@mail.coin.missouri.edu ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 Jun 1996 06:57:38 +0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Bill Painter Subject: White looking larve This weekend I inspected my two hives and found that one had white larva beeing ejected from the hive entrance. I have read about a disease that infects the brood and casues this. Is there something I can do about it or is theis something that the bee's will take care of themselves? ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 Jun 1996 09:54:44 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Dave Green, Eastern Pollinator Newsletter" Subject: Re: reequeening aggressive bees In a message dated 96-06-10 08:45:04 EDT, you write: >The problem is I find I can't find the queen during my hurried and distracted >inspections. > >Is there an easy way to get the old queen out, which doesn't involve a lot of >disruption. You didn't say if you have multiple hives. This technique, of course, will only work, if you have more hives. 1. Make a nuc from one of your good hives. Two or three frames of brood with adhering bees should do it. Make sure they have eggs, as they will have to raise a queen. If you give them a queen, they may come on faster, but there is a risk of her being killed, by the nasties, you want to be eliminating. Set it right beside your nasty hive. 2. When your nasty hive gets to flying good, move it a hundred feet or so. Then move the nuc to the former nasty site. The bees that are out foraging will return and go into your nuc, which will begin raising a queen from your good stock. Don't disturb them again unless you see a sign of problem. As long as flight is good and they are carrying pollen, they are raising brood, so should be okay. In six weeks all nasty bees will be dead and the nuc should be nice, assuming the queen got mated. Bees will continue to forage from the nasty hive, and a large proportion of these will not notice the change in location; they will return to the nuc. By afternoon, your nasty hive will be much reduced in number. And lo and behold, the bees most apt to sting will be the ones that are gone. 2. Find your queen and kill her. Replace with a good queen, and chances of acceptance will be much better, as the bees will be mostly young ones. Don't do this during a cold spell, as you can get chilled brood in either one, until enough adults hatch to cover the brood. Pollinator@aol.com Dave Green, PO Box 1200, Hemingway, SC 29554 Practical Pollination Home Page Dave & Janice Green http://users.aol.com/pollinator/polpage1.html ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 9 Jun 1996 09:57:40 -0300 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ricardo Pinto da Rocha ib - biz 2743455 Subject: Re: Revta bras. Ent. Comments: cc: biocontrol@ftpt.br, biodicen-l@ucjeps.berkeley.edu, bombus@csi.uottawa.ca, bugnet@listproc.wsu.edu, ent-list@umich.edu, insectphysiol@msstate.edu, neuroptera-l@cardiff.ac.uk, parahym@nhm.ac.uk, taxacom@cmsa.berkeley.edu In-Reply-To: DIVULGE THIS NOTICE TO YOUR LIBRARY. The Sociedade Brasileira de Entomologia is selling old volumes of the Revista Brasileira de Entomologia (vol. 1 to 34) for the price of cost, with a progressive discount depending on the amount asked, as follows: 1 to 4 volumes, US$20.00 each; 5 to 15 volumes for US$100.00, all; 16 to 34 volumes for US$200.00 all. The volumes 35 to 39 are selling by US$40.00 each, and the subscription for the number 40 (1996) is US$60.00 for institutions and US$40.00 for members of the society. The Revista Brasileira de Entomologia publishes articles on systematics, biogeography, ecology and etology on insects and arachnids (including mites). The Revta bras. Ent. published more than 14,000 pages until the fascicle 39 (4), 1995. Four fascicles and more than 800 pages have been published per year. The following fascicles are out of print: 22(1,2,3); 23 (1,4); 28(1,2); 30(1); 31(2) and 32(1). Other publications of the Society: * "A catalogue of the Fanniidae and Muscidae (Diptera of the Neotropical Region", edited by Dr. Claudio J.B. de Carvalho (Universidade Federal do Parana), price US$20.00. * "Catalogue of the Cerambycidae (Coleoptera) of the Western Hemisphere", of Dr. Miguel A. Monne (Museu Nacional do Rio de Janeiro), which have 22 published parts, price US$130.00 (with discount). If you or your library are interested, please contact me (e-mail: ricrocha@usp.br) or writte to Sociedade Brasileira de Entomologia (Caixa Postal 9063, CEP 01065-970, Sao Paulo/SP, Brazil). ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 Jun 1996 07:50:14 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: WILLIAM G LORD Subject: Re: "America's honeybees are in a bad way". In-Reply-To: <960608163800_130733177@emout15.mail.aol.com> from "Dave Green, Eastern Pollinator Newsletter" at Jun 8, 96 04:38:01 pm Dave, They were probably spraying for cereal leaf beetle. CLB has invaded the southeast in the last 6 - 8 years and can be extremely damaging to wheat. Affected fields have a white cast where the CLB have stripped the chlorophyl form the flag leaves of the wheat. Farmers in North Carolina have begun to spray their wheat in April over the last several years. Bill Lord> >In a message dated 96-06-08 15:27:04 EDT, Allen Dick wrote to me in private >correspondance of some unclear statements I made. > > >>> Wheat we've seen has been clean of >>> mustard, or else perhaps hasn't been sprayed. The martins and >>> swallows may have done a sufficient job. They sure were "swarming" >>> over the wheat fields. >> >>What are we saying here? >> >>Are you talking about herbicides? >> >>Do the birds eat the mustard? > > Boy is this ever fuzzy! I am sorry, and will try to proofread more >carefully next time. > > Most damage we've had in the early spring is from wheat spraying, which >should not be a problem, as wheat is not attractive to bees. However, the >wild mustard is a common weed in wheat fields, and foraging bees are killed >by the application. This is, of course a label violation, to apply while >bees are foraging, even though they are not on the crop; they are on a weed >in the application area. > > The pest for which the application is made is, I believe, a fly, which >causes damage just before the wheat heads. I cannot recall the name of the >fly (perhaps Hessian Fly??). The martins and swallows were working these >fields heavily this year, and may have caused sufficient control. I did not >see any pesticide applications being made; they normally are aerial, and >pretty obvious. > > I observed the martins and even more so, the swallows, concentrating on >wheat fields for about two weeks. It was obvious that they were feeding >heavily on something that was only over the wheat. In fact I got kind of >high, watching them do their thing. -Obviously a kind of biological >control..... > > Hope this helps clear the muddy waters. I'll pass it on to the list also, >in case anyone else found it confusing. > >Pollinator@aol.com Dave Green, PO Box 1200, Hemingway, SC >29554 > >Practical Pollination Home Page Dave & Janice Green >http://users.aol.com/pollinator/polpage1.html > > -- WILLIAM G LORD E-Mail : wglord@franklin Internet: wglord@franklin.ces.ncsu.edu Phone : 9194963344 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 Jun 1996 09:43:41 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jerry J Bromenshenk Subject: Re: Bears and platforms In-Reply-To: <960609153143_410497505@emout07.mail.aol.com> from "<@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU:owner-bee-l@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU>" at Jun 9, 96 03:31:44 pm Hi: Bears are a problem in Montana, and our commercial beekeepers occassionally have the Fish and Wildlife people remove a bear. But no one likes having to either trap or shoot a bear. Elaborate platforms, super shocker fences, etc. generally are not needed. Our guys use the heavy duty, solar-powered fence chargers. The ideas of foil coated with peanut butter, tuna cans, etc. on the wire do help the bear get the idea. Tongues and noses are much more sensitive than furry backsides. However, the key to success is providing a good ground. In our semi-arid climate, the soil gets so dry that the bear (or you and I) often gets only a minor shock, even if a long rod has been hammered into the soil. So, we do two things: 1) Alternate "hot" wires with "ground" wires in your fence 2) Provide a wire mesh ground all around the perimeter of your beeyard. Just outside your electric fence, place a chicken wire, woven wire, or similar fine mesh wire fence flat on the ground, parallel to your electric fence. Be sure to tie all of the "grounding" wires and mesh together and to the ground side of your fence charger. Now, when the bear approaches your fence, he is standing on a wire mat and as he tries to poke his/her head through the fence, contact will also be made between the ground wire of the fence and the hot wire (space these wires close enough so as to ensure that the bear can't stick its head through without hitting both wires). Of these suggestions, the ground mat is the most important. Finally, keep the weeds away from your "hot" wires, or else the system will ground through them. The fence mat idea and solar chargers were worked out between our commercial folks and the Fish and Game folks years ago. It still seems to be the best overall solution. Hope this helps. None of this is new, but the talk of auto parts "special" chargers, tall platforms, etc. seem like a more costly approach. Cheers Jerry Bromenshenk The Unviersity of Montana jjbmail@selway.umt.edu http://grizzly.umt.edu/biology/bees ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 Jun 1996 16:03:49 -0300 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Stan Sandler Subject: toxicity of sevin xlr plus Hi all: I was wondering if anyone knows whether I can be as bold as the manufacturer suggests when the growers I pollinate for are using carbaryl in the new sevin xlr plus formulation. (They say they must spray these flea beetles now or lose the crop.) The label says that "precautionary measures (they are speaking of beehives) may be discontinued after spray residues have dried." I phoned the canadian agricultural research branch of the chemical's manufacturer and he assured me that as soon as the spray has dried I would have no problems, it would be stuck to the foliage and foraging bees would not take it back to the hive. But he also said that the spray was only toxic to larvae not adults, and so I am having some difficulty believing him, since the Hive and Honeybee gives LD50 (and an extremely small dose) for carbaryl and I thought that these were measured on adults. A prompt response if anyone knows anything would sure be appreciated because I have to move bees out or cover them, and I have already been putting bees into fields that are sprayed, but dried, and I must say with many many misgivings. Thanks, Stan P.s. I know about pollination contracts and spraying, and I have looked at the pollinators homepage, etc., but these are the same people I have steady contracts with and they say they have no choice. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 Jun 1996 22:25:07 +0300 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Theodoros Karantias Subject: Dead bees Hi, I am a beekeeper from Greece and I have a question for the group. Every year, after the addition of the second floor of my hives, I find many dead bees out of my hives. This phenomenon lasts about the first 25-30 days after the addition of the second floor. Can you help me? Thanks Theodoros Karantias Kimolos, GREECE (karanti@techlink.gr) ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 Jun 1996 10:41:06 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ted Fischer Subject: Respiration and invertebrat REGARDING Respiration and invertebrates In response to a previous post of mine, Dave Goble writes: "Crabs are in the phylum of Crustacea, and have 30,500 species of these invertebrates. If crabs had gills when they dig into the sand their gills would be covered by sand grains and suffocation would occur. The insect species from bees, flies, and mosquitoes are of the same principle as the rest of the invertebrate class. The breathing systems are all the same, with slightly evolved changes for each species. Fish and all other gill breathing animals are not in the invertebrate class. As they are vertebrates." This is probably not the best place for this discussion, but a few basic facts of biology should be gotten straight. Arthropoda is the *phylum* that includes the *class* Crustacea (crabs, barnacles, etc.) as well as the *class* Insecta (bees, mosquitos, etc.). Respiratory systems of any organism must be adapted to the living habits of that organism, regardless of its classification. Therefore, marine animals, such as crabs (Crustacea) as well as fishes (Vertebrata) breathe with gills of one type or another, whether they are free swimming or burrowing species. Land animals are equipped with different respiratory structures, for bees (Insecta) have a tracheal tube system and mammals (Vertebrata) have lungs. Let's not confuse taxonomic with anatomic matters. Ted Fischer ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 Jun 1996 10:55:18 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ted Fischer Subject: Re: White looking larvae REGARDING RE>White looking larvae Are you sure that they are larvae, and not pupae? I noticed that very immature drone pupae (as well as some later ones) are being ejected from the hives this spring. This has been an unusually cool (maybe even cold!) spring in southeastern Michigan, and I wonder if this may be responsible for their throwing out the drone brood. Until now, I have only observed this reaction in the fall. Another possibility just occurred to me - could this be hygienic behavior, discarding drone brood with varroa mites? There is Apistan in the hives, but just maybe.... Ted Fischer ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 Jun 1996 14:38:53 +0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Bill Painter Subject: Re: White looking larvae Well after looking up the definitions of pulpa and larva and imago. I think you are right they look more like bee bodies than larva. So that is a normal occurance? I see that you reply to many of the questions posted so I have another, do the younger bees that are learning how to fly tend to come out a short time durring the day and fly back and forth in front of the hive? I have noticed lot's of activity from time to time and they don't look like they are coming or going but just hanging out for a time and then go back in to the hive. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 Jun 1996 08:07:48 GMT+1200 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Nick Wallingford Organization: Bay of Plenty Polytechnic Subject: Re: White looking larvae > Well after looking up the definitions of pulpa and larva and imago. I think > you are right they look more like bee bodies than larva. So that is a > normal occurance? Even healthy hives seem to throw out an amazing number of larvae. I guess with the 'mass rearing', there must be a number of rejects for various reasons... The most common reason would be chilling, I would expect: a colony expands brood rearing out into an area of the hive that it can't 'cover' when the weather turns back to colder. And those (by then) pupae are killed by the chilling. And then removed by the adults. > I have noticed > lot's of activity from time to time and they don't look like they are coming > or going but just hanging out for a time and then go back in to the hive. Yes, you've got it right. The young bees take a number of orientation flights, over a period of several days. They fly back and forth in front of the hive, moving closer in and further out. Must just be sort of imprinting the close in landmarks. (\ Nick Wallingford {|||8- home nickw@wave.co.nz (/ work nw1@boppoly.ac.nz NZ Beekeeping http://www.wave.co.nz/pages/nickw/nzbkpg.htm ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 Jun 1996 16:57:59 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jim Moore DTN276-9448 ogo1/e17 508-496-9448 Subject: Q: Drones local or shipped? I have some questions about drones. I got two packages and did the installation back on 5/1. I'm a new beekeeper. I can't say if the packages had drones as I wasn't looking for them. The next day I was observing the bees coming and going and saw alot of drones. I mentioned this to the middleman supplier and he stated that the drones were local drones attracted by the smell of the queen and not shipped as they are excluded during packaging. If so, one hive was clearly more attractive as it had 3 times as many drones. Q: Is this a resonaable explanation? When discussing the appearance of drones, even though at that point I had not seen a single bee all spring, it was suggested that maybe the varroa weakened hives, both managed and feral, might have lost their queens and be producing drones via laying workers. This is one of the interesting aspects of bee genetics I think. The daughters of the dead queen that survived the mite problems produce drones. Then potentially the drones carry that trait of to mate with a virgin queen should one be found. Q: Is the surving genetic pool provided by drones from surviving laying workers one path to mite resistnace? If so, is it advantageous to permit the drone rearing colonies to persist thus providing a stronger gene pool? Lastly, if the drones are locals, then the fact that the package was mite free is of no consequence as the drones would carry mites from their infested hive. Q: Is the apistan strip that is in the package going to be sufficient to knock down the drone imported mites? There may not be clear answers to the above questions but I would appreciate some discussion. Thanks. Jim Moore ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 Jun 1996 16:17:56 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Steven Albritton Subject: Re: reequeening aggressive bees A beekeeper told this method to my father. He says he takes the hive and sets a new box underneath with a Queen excluder between the old and the new. He then puts some bee-go or whatever to run the bees down. The queen can't get down and is isolated. Go in the top and she and maybe the drones should be all that is left. Take her away and put the new queen in. At 01:34 PM 6/10/96 GMT, you wrote: >Hi everyone, > >I have a naturally aggressive hive, which someone has given me (lucky me). They seem >healthy etc, but even on good days, during a flow and will fly off the combs and >attack. It is virtually impossible to get through the brood box of these bees without a >lot of trouble. They are in sharp contrast to my other bees which are very easy to >handle. > >The books I have read say if a colony becomes aggressive for no obvious reason the then >requeen it. > >The problem is I find I can't find the queen during my hurried and distracted >inspections. > >Is there an easy way to get the old queen out, which doesn't involve a lot of >disruption. > >Steve >Scotland > > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 Jun 1996 16:43:20 CDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ray Nabors Subject: Re[2]: Pollination of Soybeens Dr. Eric Ericson of the bee lab in Tucson Arizona did some work on this back in the 1970's He had test plots in Wisconsin, Louisiana and at the Arkansas?Missouri boarder about 100 miles north of Memphis along the Mississippi. The test turned out different for Wisconsin where little soybean pollination occurs. In the Missouri Bootheel and Louisiana, soybeans had quite a benefit. Basically, bees work soybeans when the crop has enough flowers to set fruit for a yield of 25 bushels per acre or more. If the bees work the soybeans then the crop will get a yield boost of 10% on average with a range of 5% to 15% depending on the year. If a 30 bushel bean crop has a yield increase of 10% those 3 bushels are worth about $20.00 per acre these days on 100 acres that would be about $20,000. The bees will pollinate eveerything within about 1/2 mile of a good apiary (20 colonies). That would be about 640 acres. Not a bad return for a good West Tennessee farmer. Good Luck Ray Nabors ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Re: Pollination of Soybeens Author: Discussion of Bee Biology at internet-ext Date: 6/7/96 10:42 PM You wrote: > > >Does anyone have info on the effects of bees on a soybean crop. Are there >any reports on the possible increase in yields. Are there certian soybean >plants that the bee's like and others that is does not. > >Thanks!!! > Hi, I'd be interested in this...soybeans are a major crop around here (memphis, tennessee area)...cotton can be a good honey crop under the right circumstances...it's a non-floral nectarine...it -oozes- nectar! (so do citrus trees)...the problem is all the insecticides that are put on it....there are some organic cotton growers though...and they are usually more co-operative. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 Jun 1996 16:54:55 CDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ray Nabors Subject: Re: toxicity of sevin xlr plus Carbaryl is deadly to bees. They can pick it up on their feet and carry it back to the colony. The XLR formulation is the lesser of two evils. It will kill some bees but usually not the colony. Unlike purethroid insecticides which kill bees in the field before they get back home, a field bee can transport carbaryl home before dying. This can result in larval death within the colony. If a colony is inadvertantly sprayed with carbaryl that colony is likely to die as a result. Other alternatives include any of the pyrethroid insecticides labelled or malathion or methoxychlor or a mix of malathion and methoxychlor. Any of these products should be sprayed in the evening after the bees leave the field. This gives the insecticide time to leave the field. You did not mention the crop so I am not sure about specific insecticide recommendations. Ray Nabors ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: toxicity of sevin xlr plus Author: Discussion of Bee Biology at internet-ext Date: 6/10/96 2:00 PM Hi all: I was wondering if anyone knows whether I can be as bold as the manufacturer suggests when the growers I pollinate for are using carbaryl in the new sevin xlr plus formulation. (They say they must spray these flea beetles now or lose the crop.) The label says that "precautionary measures (they are speaking of beehives) may be discontinued after spray residues have dried." I phoned the canadian agricultural research branch of the chemical's manufacturer and he assured me that as soon as the spray has dried I would have no problems, it would be stuck to the foliage and foraging bees would not take it back to the hive. But he also said that the spray was only toxic to larvae not adults, and so I am having some difficulty believing him, since the Hive and Honeybee gives LD50 (and an extremely small dose) for carbaryl and I thought that these were measured on adults. A prompt response if anyone knows anything would sure be appreciated because I have to move bees out or cover them, and I have already been putting bees into fields that are sprayed, but dried, and I must say with many many misgivings. Thanks, Stan P.s. I know about pollination contracts and spraying, and I have looked at the pollinators homepage, etc., but these are the same people I have steady contracts with and they say they have no choice. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 Jun 1996 20:10:00 GMT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Andy Nachbaur Organization: WILD BEE'S BBS (209) 826-8107 LOS BANOS, CA Subject: New Zealand Bee Diseases CVE>From: Cliff Van Eaton >Date: Mon, 10 Jun 1996 15:47:51 +1200 >Subject: New Zealand Bee Diseases [WARNING, if you are not interested in opinion, or are satisfied that facts reported by representatives of any government have some value similar to the words of the LORD from the Holy Bible DO NOT READ THIS POST, trash it, and put the posters name in your personal "kill file" as it contains nothing but PERSONAL OPINION and does not represent the "official" view of any government or any opinion other then the writers own.] **NOTE: The fastest way to end a tread is NOT to post back to it or use E-MAIL. You have been WARNED [page down] for the un-official reply to the official reply from the New Zealand's Apicultural Advisory Officer. CVE>In reply to Mr. Patton's message to BEE-L of June 8, 1996 Given>, I would like to clarify the following points for subscribers: CVE>1. My position with the NZ government is Apicultural Advisory Officer, >not "Agricultural" Advisory Officer, as Mr. Patton states. Well, Cliff, I Love My Boss too, even if my position is from the very low perspective of being a life long self employed beekeeper since 1955 and in involuntary forced semi retirement because of beekeeping problems here in California. D, D, and D; Dead bees, Diseased bees, and a Darn bee thief who stole the last 500 healthy hives I had out of a almond orchard the early spring of 95. CVE>3. The disease "melanosis" was not included in the list of bee diseases >present in New Zealand included in my April 19, 1996 posting because Humm, very interesting, but not clear as to why it was not included other then its a "maybe" disease you have but don't want other's to know "officially" you have it, relying on technical semantics to make your case you have it but you don't have it in the report. Do you know about foot notes, much better then the foot in mouth disease. >Dr. Liu's article did not state that the causitive organism of melanosis ha >been isolated, either in NZ bees, or in NZ queens introduced into Candian Much quoting left out but did you know that a few scientists may believe that if you have one acarapis bee mite there is a pretty good chance you have them all or in time will have? Lets see there were four acarapis mites, now there are three, but all of them feed on the bee in the same way, but from different positions on or in the bee, but not to worry only the one's found in the breathing tubes are reason for concern, but then they also can be found in other internal organs and spaces. Yes it is clear, acarapis mites are not good on our bees and NZ does have acarapis mites on some of their bees at one time or another the same as most other areas of the world that have looked for them. CVE>4. Mr. Patton's states that all the old time beekeepers he has interviewed >doubt that NZ is free of EFB. I am unsure as to what evidence these >persons have for such a claim. One of the problems is that people from NZ who keep bees and are outside of the government or are not involved in the bee export market or representing others who may have such interests do talk with other keepers of bees and they have a opinion that is somewhat different from the "official one" of the NZ Apricot Advasiory Officer on some of the claims of superior health of NZ bees made by others and government and regulatory officials. And NO I am not about to give out names as I am sure others have ways of dealing with these beekeepers and re-educating them on the official regulatory or government position. >posting of April 19, 1996, that New Zealand is free of European >foulbrood is based on a sound surveillance programme. Government >apiculture personnel inspect 500 apiaries throughout NZ each year, with >the apiaries chosen for their proximity to risk areas. Here in California, the Left Coast of the USA we have individual beekeepers who check 500 apiaries each year if you count multiply visits it would even bee much higher. We have found just about every kind of disease, pest, and predator, bees can get with the exception of a few exotics that some say would carry the bees, boxes and all away. We are always looking for some new ones to challenge our beekeeping skills. It's the total numbers of hives and the percentage of those numbers inspected that tells the true and honest story of apiary inspection, not numbers of apiaries inspected which could be any number of bee hives per apiary from a few to a lot. It is also somewhat important to clarify that bee inspections are made on individual hives and that if one hive or ten hives are opened and 100 hives are in the yard that to some with regulatory mind set it may be a 100% apiary inspection. Not to a real beekeeper for whom it would only be one or ten hives inspected out of 100 in the bee yard or apiary site. When a beekeeper talks about bee inspection he is normally talking about looking at every hive and not some magic formula that gives some statistical probability that something you have not ever seen does not exist. God made bees and made them subject to diseases, pests, predators, and change, and if any beeman lives long enough and looks hard enough he will someday find them all without traveling farther then his own bee yards. Not finding any one of them does not indicate they don't exist, only that they were not found, yet. >etc). The surveillance system is audited and subject to review by >recognised overseas government agriculture officials and beekeeping >industry representatives. This is good and many beekeepers here have a go at our own agricultural and government officials in legislative hearings and the like, and have been successful in reducing their numbers and funding, now relying more on the beekeepers own abilities to detect and suppress disease or any economic beekeeping problem he has. Kind of a back to basics movement of self reliance and with little or no government interference. There are still many beekeepers who would like government to do it all for them, especially so the one's who would like to ship bees into political areas that require some form of official government health certification, but because of the realities in the bee regulatory industry and its value to society as a whole they are not having it their way for the rest of us and those who need the paper work are getting the paper work making everyone happy and secure in their work. CVE>5. Mr. Patton states that the "claim that NZ is free of EFB has in the past >been an effective zoosanitary trade barrier which has been an effective >trade and economic tool for the NZ honeybee industry as this claim >prevents any honeybees, honey and or used equipment from entering >NZ". As I made clear in my posting of April 19, 1996, imports of >honeybees, honey and other bee products are allowed entry into NZ >provided they are determined to have a low risk of introducing exotic >honey bee diseases. I like this bureaucratic government erratica as it seems as familiar as such statement as "apparently free of pests and disease at the time of inspection", but in reality it is, and always has been and will continue to be in the future "bee buyer bee ware" when you get down to the bottom line in the bee business or hobby it is far better to know the beekeeper who you are dealing with then the bee inspector who inspects the bees as the fox smells his own hole first so a beekeepers knows his own bees best. >Millions of dollars of such products are imported into NZ each >year. I am sure you do not mean to be misleading and would like to part this out to the number of pounds of bees, number of queen bees, as it really appears that you are including the value of honey and other bee products imported into NZ to give the appearance of a open market for bees and queens and I don't believe that is what you wanted to do as it would be very deceptive and to some and less then the true facts to the reader who is not familiar with your countries history of importations of bees and queens. Please feel free to correct me if I am wrong. In ending I would say again, NZ has there landing rights in Hawaii, be happy in that, but not so secure that in attacking any beekeeper from the prospective of a government position of any class or rank that these landing rights could not be revoked. You could find the political back lash grater then you expect...From here in the safety of my home office I sit and I can't see the stars or buttons on any uniform and am not impressed by the bureaucratic talk and expect better from government representatives then what some have provided because of their stated high rank and professional opinion which have the same value as any other's posts or opinion at least to me and a few others I am sure. If they were public servants in California I would demand better and have it but we are not we are just beekeepers. The devil is always in the details and those with the rank better know the details and be able to express them so us lowly beekeepers can and do understand them which does not happen with bureaucrat to bureaucrat making revisions to regulations and public law without the "involved" consent of the people at risk, including the lowly Hawaiian beekeepers. "Involved" means more then a government form letter back acknowledging the receiving of someone's comment. It may be different in other countries, but I am not so sure it is all that much better. New Zealand is a wonderful place, has a wonderful system of government, great public servants, good beekeepers, bees that they can be proud of, but so has Hawaii, or California or Timbuktu and they too have every right to try to protect and promote what they have. Maybe we don't have the luxury of having slick government agents speaking out for us, and maybe what we have to say is hard to follow because of our own short falls in language skills or lack of high education or office, but we will have our say the same as some have had their way with our own bureaucrats. BTW: NZ may be the only place in the world that blames any significant part of their own AFB incidence on the residue of honey left over from emptied import and consumer containers of honey, left in the trash, and believes it...can prove it, and bee proud of it, at the same time they would have us all believe that there is "no risk" to the bees of Hawaii from NZ bees landing at Hawaii's international airport and some unforeseen careless act which is no different then putting out the trash containing sticky honey containers, something that many in the world of beekeeping would consider a very minor regulatory and bee health problem at the most... I guess it depends a lot on who's ox is being gored but I suspect we have not heard the end of this story which may come from the beekeepers in Canada or the sleeping politicians in Washington, or some other place in the end, God forbidding any New Zealand bees escaping from the trash at Hawaii's airports. ttul Andy- (c) Permission is granted to freely copy this document in any form, or to print for any use. (w)Opinions are not necessarily facts. Use at own risk. --- ~ QMPro 1.53 ~ All bees are looking for bargains in nature's supermarket ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 Jun 1996 21:56:34 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "prof. osmar malaspina" Subject: Beehere I am a brasilian research and i would like to know how obtain the attractive "BEEHERE". Osmar Malaspina Malaspin@rcb000.uesp.ansp.br CEIS/IBRC/UNESP/RIO CLARO/SP/BR. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 Jun 1996 14:12:31 GMT+1200 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Nick Wallingford Organization: Bay of Plenty Polytechnic Subject: Re: New Zealand Bee Diseases Andy Nachbaur writes: > Yes it > is clear, acarapis mites are not good on our bees and NZ does have > acarapis mites on some of their bees at one time or another the same as > most other areas of the world that have looked for them. A rottweiler is a dog. A chihuahua is a dog. Rottweilers can eat the arms off a person. Beware of chihuahuas! Streptococcus meningitis causes a bad disease. Streptococcus thermophilus makes yogurt. Beware of yogurt! New Zealand is free of Acarapis woodi, the tracheal mite that causing troubles in the US. We have, through thorough surveying work, found other mites in the same genus. It does not follow, as Andy would have us believe, that such mites are more dangerous than chihuahuas and yogurt... (\ Nick Wallingford {|||8- home nickw@wave.co.nz (/ work nw1@boppoly.ac.nz NZ Beekeeping http://www.wave.co.nz/pages/nickw/nzbkpg.htm ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 Jun 1996 22:00:11 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Roy Nettlebeck Subject: Re: Bears and platforms In-Reply-To: <199606101543.JAA23964@selway.umt.edu> On Mon, 10 Jun 1996, Jerry J Bromenshenk wrote: > Hi: > > Our guys use the heavy duty, solar-powered fence chargers. > > The ideas of foil coated with peanut butter, tuna cans, etc. on the wire > do help the bear get the idea. Tongues and noses are much more sensitive > than furry backsides. > > However, the key to success is providing a good ground. In our semi-arid > climate, the soil gets so dry that the bear (or you and I) often gets > only a minor shock, even if a long rod has been hammered into the soil. > > So, we do two things: > > 1) Alternate "hot" wires with "ground" wires in your fence > > 2) Provide a wire mesh ground all around the perimeter of your beeyard. > Just outside your electric fence, place a chicken wire, woven wire, or > similar fine mesh wire fence flat on the ground, parallel to your > electric fence. > > Of these suggestions, the ground mat is the most important. > > Finally, keep the weeds away from your "hot" wires, or else the system > will ground through them. > > The fence mat idea and solar chargers were worked out between our > commercial folks and the Fish and Game folks years ago. It still seems > to be the best overall solution. > > Hope this helps. None of this is new, but the talk of auto parts > "special" chargers, tall platforms, etc. seem like a more costly approach. > Hi Jerry and All, Where I live , we have the largest cosntration of black bear in the state of Washington. I had one knock over a hgive while my Wife and little on were out playing on the lawn about 150 feet away. I do about the same thing as you said Jerry. I use sardine cans and wire them to the top hot wire and use a middle ground wire and another hot wire on the bottem.My local game department person gave me the info on how to set it up. Over the years I have had bear grab the sardine can about 3 or 4 times. I have never had a problem with the bear getting into my bees. They go for the sardines first and then they go for the next county. The ground looks like a rototiller went to work where the bear grabed the can. They don't come back for seconds. I like the ground mat idea if your in a dry area or don't have the ground wire about 6 inches below the sardine can. I use the sardines that are packed in oil. Best Regards Roy ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 Jun 1996 17:37:27 +1200 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Cliff Van Eaton Subject: Re: Bears and Platforms An interesting correspondence, and one that brings back a lot of memories. I recall that a commercial beekeeper on Vancouver Island also used a platform. Perhaps Paul van Westendorp or John Gates will be able to remember more about it. The system Jerry Bromenshenk describes is also the one I remember being used in southern British Columbia. We used to construct such bear fences for isolated queen mating yards and fireweed sites. Getting a good ground for the fence was also a problem for us, and the chicken wire around the perimeter seemed to do a good job. I also remember hammering a six foot piece of reinforcing rod into the ground to improve the current. The fencers we used were Gallagher's, made in New Zealand, and ran on a car battery. Gallagher's also make a solar-powered model. We used to check the current (and ground) with a nifty little LCD read-out meter (also Gallagher's). Another system we used involved placing 4 or 8 colonies, together with fresh honey supers, on a wooden pallet, and then wrapping the hives and pallet with chain link fence. We also cut a cap out of corresponding size chain link to use as a top, and fastened both the cap and the wrap with fencing wire. The system worked quite well. It was fairly easy to get into, was quick to set up and take down (quicker than an electric fence), and was both robust and completely reuseable (every year we seemed to have to buy a few new pieces for the electric fences). The system was also very bear-proof (if a bit puzzling to them). I remember once driving into a site and seeing two bears sitting on top of one of these pallets, reaching down with their paws trying to figure out how to get in. The only damage we ever had was a few tooth marks on the corners of several lids where the wood poked through the chain link. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 Jun 1996 01:06:14 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Michael Moroney Subject: Re: reequeening aggressive bees In-Reply-To: <<26E88300A38@bad.dundee.ac.uk> In article <<26E88300A38@bad.dundee.ac.uk>, you wrote: > Hi everyone, > > I have a naturally aggressive hive, which someone has given me (lucky me). They seem > healthy etc, but even on good days, during a flow and will fly off the combs and > attack. It is virtually impossible to get through the brood box of these bees without a > lot of trouble. They are in sharp contrast to my other bees which are very easy to > handle. > > The problem is I find I can't find the queen during my hurried and distracted > inspections. You can get a new young caged queen, take her, ~3 frames of brood+adhering bees, some frames of pollen/honey+additional bees from the old hive, place a double screen board on top of the old hive, the new nuc on top of this, and give the nuc its own entrance. After several weeks you can either try to find the old queen and kill her, or failing that, replace the double screen board with a sheet of newspaper and hope the new young queen wins the battle of the queens (she usually will) when the bees eat the newspaper away, slowly reuniting the two colonies. -Mike ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 Jun 1996 01:17:05 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Michael Moroney Subject: Re: Swarm In-Reply-To: <<31BC1745.215F@avana.net> In article <<31BC1745.215F@avana.net>, you wrote: > Here's one that I can't explain. I had a hive swarm yesterday. After > they left, I inspected the hive and found that they had taken all of the > honey in the brood chamber with them. They left the food super and honey > super alone. About 45 min later they returned and covered the front of > the hive. Hoping to salvage some of the hive, I did a split and remove 3 > frames and brood to a nuc. All seemed to be going ok, but this morning I > took a look at the hive and noticed that there was a small fist sized > cluster of bees underneath the hive. I captured this mini swarm, and put > it with the rest of the bees in the nuc. I made sure that when I put > frames in the nuc from the original hive that I chose one that had a > good queen cell on it. My question is this what I should have done, or > should I have taken another approach to this matter. I bet what happened is the queen couldn't leave with the swarm (was she clipped?) and the swarm returned for that reason. I also bet the ball of bees was where the queen was, if so she's now in the nuc. The best thing to do if you know where the queen is is to make them think they swarmed, place the queen+the "outside" bees + more bees from inside in a new hive without brood. If you take enough bees into the "swarm" hopefully they won't send out afterswarms. The bees in the nuc with the queen cell _may_ swarm itself if the old queen is in fact still with them. You may want to look for her. -Mike ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 Jun 1996 05:52:14 -0300 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Stan Sandler Subject: Re: toxicity of sevin xlr plus > Carbaryl is deadly to bees. They can pick it up on their feet and > carry it back to the colony. The XLR formulation is the lesser of two > evils. It will kill some bees but usually not the colony. Unlike > purethroid insecticides which kill bees in the field before they get > back home, a field bee can transport carbaryl home before dying. This > can result in larval death within the colony. If a colony is > inadvertantly sprayed with carbaryl that colony is likely to die as a > result. Other alternatives include any of the pyrethroid insecticides > labelled or malathion or methoxychlor or a mix of malathion and > methoxychlor. Any of these products should be sprayed in the evening > after the bees leave the field. This gives the insecticide time to > leave the field. You did not mention the crop so I am not sure about > specific insecticide recommendations. > Ray Nabors Thanks for the reply Ray. The crop is blueberries. The pest is flea beetles. My specific concerns are how long to wait after the crop has been sprayed with sevin xlr plus before moving bees into the field (the manufacturer says as soon as the spray has dried, can I believe them?). Supposedly the stuff has a sticker which makes it difficult for the bees to pick up (but as you say I could see them getting it on their feet). If a grower wants to spray with sevin xlr plus and avoids the colonies, sprays in the evening, and I put a tarpaulin over the colonies and leave in on for a while in the morning until I feel sure the spray has dried, how safe do you think this would be? I could suggest another spray to this grower but he might be sceptical. He sprayed one field with methoxychlor before I put the bees in, and apparently it did not do much to the flea beetles. Regards, Stan ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 Jun 1996 09:10:54 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Chris C. Prouse" Subject: Re: toxicity of sevin xlr plus -Reply Comments: To: sandler@cycor.ca xxxx Stan says: >The crop is blueberries. The pest is flea beetles. My specific >concerns are how long to wait after the crop has been sprayed with >sevin xlr plus before moving bees into the field (the manufacturer says >as soon as the spray has dried, can I believe them?). >Regards, Stan xxxxxxx In fact the crop is low bush blueberries which do not have the same pesticide registrations as cultivated blueberries. At this time year it is not the flea beetle adult which damages the crop but the flea beetle larvae. The recommended control product for this pest is Dylox, not Sevin, not Methoxychor. Dylox (trichlorfon) is listed as moderately toxic to bees, the same rating as methoxychlor. Dylox is only applied when the larvae are present which is usually just at the end of, or just after pollination. Stan, maybe you could suggest that the grower contact me, he maybe putting it on to early. It is my understanding that the new formulation Sevin (XLR) has a larger grain size which accounts for its lowered ability to be moved by bees. Chris Prouse xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Chris Prouse Horticultural Specialist/ Provincial Apiarist Prince Edward Island/Canada Department of Agriculture, Fisheries and Forestry ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 Jun 1996 08:17:52 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: QueenBJan@aol.com Subject: A Most Unusual Swarm Dave (Pollinator) and I have been greatly blessed this spring with bees that have for the most part been healthy and strong. We have seen a few of our bees go up in swarms, but more often than not, we caught them just before swarming and had plenty of queen cells for making splits and requeening hives, etc. I have been constantly learning new things since meeting Dave less than a year ago, and am continually marveling over these unique fuzzy creatures. Today was another of those days to marvel over. We were blessed with a new swarm from out of the blue--it flew in from the swamp and made its home beside our warehouse in a stack of deep supers. The cloud of bees seemed to settle in, but for some reason stayed outside the supers running up and down the sides. The swarm was quite large. Dave and I were working inside the warehouse and I was about to turn on the shop vac to sweep up some dead bees that had died on the floor when one bee caught my attention. It was a queen bee crawling around all by itself--there was not a single worker bee around her! I called Dave and he determined that it was an old queen bee. He carried her outside and put her on top of the stack of supers and watched until she finally crawled down between the frames. Before long nearly all the bees were inside the deep supers. About an hour later we were getting in the truck to leave when Dave noticed a very small cluster of bees on the ground. We looked to see if there was a queen in the cluster and found her. She looked remarkably like the queen we had seen previously?? We put a nuc box down beside the bees and they immediately crawled inside. I am eager to check in the morning and see what is happening with these bees. Were there two queens in the same swarm? Do we have a highly disoriented queen that doesn't stay with her hive? Perhaps she flew into one of the burning light bulbs inside the warehouse??? Maybe she missed too many days of queen bee school and never finished reading the book about how queen bees are supposed to behave...? According to Dave, it is well past the end of the normal swarm period. We do not have any idea where these bees came from as we moved all our bees far away from the warehouse to prevent them from robbing our supers of honey as waiting to be extracted. It would be great if we have a mite resistant swarm--IF the queen makes it. The bees appear healthy and we couldn't spot any varroas. Janice Green PO Box 1200, Hemingway, SC 29554 Practical Pollination Home Page Dave & Janice Green http://users.aol.com/pollinator/polpage1.html Note: We are excitedly awaiting the delivery of our "Snappy" which should enable us to put lots of pictures on our home page. : ) Be watching for the improvements. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 Jun 1996 14:49:09 +0100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "THONE HUGO VE144 (240)9452" Subject: low temperature queens Hi, Is there anybody out their who has experience with breeding queens in a breeding-case at a lower temperature then the normal 34-34.5 C (94 F) ? It takes a few days longer for the queeens to emerge, but they should be bigger and stronger (???). I have found the first statement to be through, but I cannot check the other statements. Cheers +++++ Hugo Thone (SE144) ALCATEL TELECOM (\ email : thoneh@btmaa.bel.alcatel.be F.Wellesplein 1 {|||8- phone : (32) 3 240 94 52 B-2018 Antwerp (/ fax : (32) 3 240 99 50 do bee do bee do .... ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 Jun 1996 13:21:10 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: WILLIAM G LORD Subject: Re: reequeening aggressive bees In-Reply-To: <26E88300A38@bad.dundee.ac.uk> from "Steve Pearce" at Jun 10, 96 01:34:11 pm Steve; One simple choice is to run the occupants of the hive through a queen excluder. It is very disruptive but effective. Set up a bottom board, and empty super (you can put a frame of brood in it), and excluder, and an empty super on top. Open the hive and shake the bees into the top box, applying steady smoke. If the bees are really agressive you can give them a dose of nitrous oxide (laughing gas) by placing a teaspoon of sodium nitrate fertilizer into a hot smoker and giving then give a few seconds of the resulting gray smoke into the entrance. They will just look at you when you open the hive then. Be careful with the fertilizer in the smoker as the smoke has other, less pleasant components, and neither you nor the bees need a big dose of it. Bill > >Hi everyone, > >I have a naturally aggressive hive, which someone has given me (lucky me). They seem >healthy etc, but even on good days, during a flow and will fly off the combs and >attack. It is virtually impossible to get through the brood box of these bees without a >lot of trouble. They are in sharp contrast to my other bees which are very easy to >handle. > >The books I have read say if a colony becomes aggressive for no obvious reason the then >requeen it. > >The problem is I find I can't find the queen during my hurried and distracted >inspections. > >Is there an easy way to get the old queen out, which doesn't involve a lot of >disruption. > >Steve >Scotland > > -- WILLIAM G LORD E-Mail : wglord@franklin Internet: wglord@franklin.ces.ncsu.edu Phone : 9194963344 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 Jun 1996 08:33:31 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Kriston M. Bruland" Subject: Re: Q: Drones local or shipped? In-Reply-To: Jim Moore DTN276-9448 ogo1/e17 508-496-9448 "Q: Drones local or shipped?" (Jun 10, 4:57pm) On Jun 10, 4:57pm, Jim Moore DTN276-9448 ogo1/e17 508-496-9448 wrote: > Subject: Q: Drones local or shipped? > I have some questions about drones. I got two > packages and did the installation back on 5/1. I'm a > new beekeeper. I can't say if the packages had drones > as I wasn't looking for them. The next day I was > observing the bees coming and going and saw alot of > drones. > > I mentioned this to the middleman supplier and > he stated that the drones were local drones attracted > by the smell of the queen and not shipped as they are > excluded during packaging. If so, one hive was clearly > more attractive as it had 3 times as many drones. > > Q: Is this a resonaable explanation? > The packages I've bought have always had some drones in them, although not an excessive number. I'm not sure why they would be excluded when the packages are shaken. Kris Bruland Member of Mt. Baker Beekeepers Association Bellingham, WA U.S.A. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 Jun 1996 08:56:49 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: John Volpe Subject: bees as "superorganisms" Hello everyone, Can anyone provide information regarding a book that was published a couple of years ago out of Cornell University that made the argument that the hive can be seen as an autonomous being - a "superorganism". The idea being that a hive expresses all the same characteristics as a normal organism might. I saw one of the authors give a talk a few years back on the subject and have yet to see or hear of the book. Has anyone got any information they could share? Cheers John Volpe ----------------------------------------------------------- John Volpe Marine and Aquatic Sciences Section Centre for Environmental Health University of Victoria jvolpe@uvic.ca ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 Jun 1996 12:09:49 CDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Phil Wood Subject: Re: bees as "superorganisms" In-Reply-To: <2.2.32.19960611155649.006b5c80@uvaix.uvic.ca>; from "John Volpe" at Jun 11, 96 8:56 am This insight is as least as old as Darwin, isn't it? I had thought that Darwin used this notion to explain why bees did things clearly not in their own individual interest (such as stinging and thereby killing themselves) but which were in the interest of the hive as a whole. Just a thought- I'd love to read more about latest views on it. Phil Wood wood@psysparc.psyc.missouri.edu > > Hello everyone, > > Can anyone provide information regarding a book that was published a couple > of years ago out of Cornell University that made the argument that the hive > can be seen as an autonomous being - a "superorganism". The idea being that > a hive expresses all the same characteristics as a normal organism might. I > saw one of the authors give a talk a few years back on the subject and have > yet to see or hear of the book. Has anyone got any information they could share? > > Cheers John Volpe > ----------------------------------------------------------- > John Volpe > Marine and Aquatic Sciences Section > Centre for Environmental Health > University of Victoria > jvolpe@uvic.ca > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 Jun 1996 10:23:10 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Marcia Sinclair Subject: Re: bees as "superorganisms" John, You may be referring to "The Wisdom of the Hive" by Thomas D. Seeley. He is a professor of biology at Cornell. The book is published by Harvard University Press, copyright 1995. I am just starting it and it is slow going, as is highly technical, not an easy read. I'd be glad to provide a review when I'm finished. I am a novice beekeeper and writer, enjoying the learning process. This season I'm boning up on bee lore, with a goal of eventually writing about my experience as a bumbling (pardon the pun) assistant to my tiny sweet-toothed friends. Marcia Sinclair At 08:56 AM 6/11/96 -0700, you wrote: >Hello everyone, > >Can anyone provide information regarding a book that was published a couple >of years ago out of Cornell University that made the argument that the hive >can be seen as an autonomous being - a "superorganism". The idea being that >a hive expresses all the same characteristics as a normal organism might. I >saw one of the authors give a talk a few years back on the subject and have >yet to see or hear of the book. Has anyone got any information they could share? > >Cheers John Volpe >----------------------------------------------------------- >John Volpe >Marine and Aquatic Sciences Section >Centre for Environmental Health >University of Victoria >jvolpe@uvic.ca > > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 Jun 1996 12:20:05 -0600 Reply-To: allend@internode.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Allen Dick Organization: The Beekeepers Subject: Re: Dead bees > Hi, > I am a beekeeper from Greece and I have a question for the group. > Every year, after the addition of the second floor of my hives, I > find many dead bees out of my hives. This phenomenon lasts about the > first 25-30 days after the addition of the second floor. Can you > help me? Here's another stumper for you all: When bees are removed from honey supers by placing a bee escape board between the brood chambers and the supers, howcum there are always a few dead bees left in the supers? They appear to be young and undamaged. Regards Allen W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper VE6CFK RR#1, Swalwell, Alberta Canada T0M 1Y0 Internet:dicka@cuug.ab.ca & allend@internode.net Honey. Bees, & Art ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 Jun 1996 12:16:55 -0600 Reply-To: allend@internode.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Allen Dick Organization: The Beekeepers Subject: Re: reequeening aggressive bees > > >Hi everyone, > > >I have a naturally aggressive hive, which someone has given me > >(lucky me). They seem healthy etc, but even on good days, during a > >flow and will fly off the combs and attack. It is virtually > >impossible to get through the brood box of these bees without a lot > >of trouble. They are in sharp contrast to my other bees which are > >very easy to handle. > > > >The books I have read say if a colony becomes aggressive for no > >obvious reason the then requeen it. > > > >The problem is I find I can't find the queen during my hurried and > >distracted inspections. > > > >Is there an easy way to get the old queen out, which doesn't > >involve a lot of disruption. Well, you can exchange the hive with another at a time when they are flying a lot -- during a flow. Much of the flying force of the mad bees will then be in the other hive and milder bees in the one in question. Do this with a several hives (if you have them available) several days apart, and you should be able to work them. Also consider working them at mid-day during a good flow when most of the flying bees are out and the population is lower. Regards Allen W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper VE6CFK RR#1, Swalwell, Alberta Canada T0M 1Y0 Internet:dicka@cuug.ab.ca & allend@internode.net Honey. Bees, & Art ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 Jun 1996 11:44:21 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ted Fischer Subject: Re: Free Honey? REGARDING RE>Free Honey? Cullin Hall wrote: "I have a friend that has given me his old hives and a couple of supers full of honey. He has kept the honey in a refrigerator since last winter when found that his bees were dead. The wax in the Brood chamber is black. He says the bees just froze due to a cold winter. He did not wrap the hive. They did not starve (one full super of honey). How can I check or have it check for diseases before I put the honey on one of my hives that needs feeding. I have gotten three swarms in the last week. Yes I know I need to read the chapter on swarm prevention. I have checked two hives that have no brood. There are about ten queen cells in each hive. In one a the queen has emerged and I think I saw her in the hive. How long does it take a newly emerged queen to begin laying? What causes black wax in supers?" The main disease that can be carried in used equipment as well as honey is American Foulbrood (AFB). If your brood patterns appear solid, no puncturing of scattered cells is present, your colonies don't have this disease. If the honey came from these colonies last year, it is likely that it will be OK as well. Wax darkens because of the pigments and excreta from developing brood and their cocoons. It also is darkened because of the addition of small amounts of propolis into the wax. If you look at some new comb that is often built in package bee packages, it is pure white. I have never seen wax this white in a working hive, although it comes close at times. Ted Fischer ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 Jun 1996 10:58:22 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ted Fischer Subject: RE>Drones local or shipped REGARDING RE>Drones local or shipped Jim Moore wrote: "I have some questions about drones. I got two packagesand did the installation back on 5/1. I'm a new beekeeper. I can't say if the packages had drones as I wasn't looking for them. The next day I was observing the bees coming and going and saw alot of drones. I mentioned this to the middleman supplier and he stated that the drones were local drones attracted by the smell of the queen and not shipped as they are excluded during packaging. If so, one hive was clearly more attractive as it had 3 times as many drones. Q: Is this a resonaable explanation?" A bee supplier should probably reply to this, but I don't remember that package bees I have received were lacking in drones. I would think that it would be a huge bother to exclude drones from shipping packages, and rather pointless as well. "When discussing the appearance of drones, even though at that point I had not seen a single bee all spring, it was suggested that maybe the varroa weakened hives, both managed and feral, might have lost their queens and be producing drones via laying workers. This is one of the interesting aspects of bee genetics I think. The daughters of the dead queen that survived the mite problems produce drones. Then potentially the drones carry that trait of to mate with a virgin queen should one be found. Q: Is the surving genetic pool provided by drones from surviving laying workers one path to mite resistnace? If so, is it advantageous to permit the drone rearing colonies to persist thus providing a stronger gene pool?" The usual path of varroa collapse is for the entire colony to die off rather quickly. The queen and a small cluster are usually the last to go. I doubt that laying workers would ever develop in a colony devastated by varroa. However, if drones would be produced in this way, they would be the most likely carriers of the mite, since even in a normal colony drone brood is preferentially attacked. Another thing. A colony that has laying workers is a stressed colony. It definitely is not healthy, as seen by the prevalance of chalkbrood and wax moths. The moth especially is a sign that a colony has lost its will to live. There would be no advantage to keeping it at all. "Lastly, if the drones are locals, then the fact that the package was mite free is of no consequence as the drones would carry mites from their infested hive. Q: Is the apistan strip that is in the package going to be sufficient to knock down the drone imported mites?" No, whether or not the drones were locals I would recommend that you always start out a package hive by giving it two Apistan strips. You don't ever know for sure what the specific history of those bees was, and it is better to be safe than sorry. Ted Fischer ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 Jun 1996 11:26:10 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ted Fischer Subject: Re: Old syrup and pollen pat REGARDING RE>Old syrup and pollen patties Gert Walter wrote: "1) Any problem with reusing old unused sugar syrup that has mold floating in it? I freeze it after filtering out the mold and cleaning the containers. It doesn't smell fermented. 2) Unused pollen patties seem to be very dry. Can they be reused as is or should they somehow be moistened?" Personally, I wouldn't reuse either the old syrup or the hard patties. Like everyone else, I hate to throw out possible reusable supplies, but in the case of the syrup who knows what toxins or metabolites of the mold might have been added to the sugar? I would rather lose a little bit of money in sugar than a lot in bees. In the case of the pollen, I think that it would be better to discard it than to take the chance, when rehydrating it, to have it ferment or otherwise go bad. We don't need to take any chances with our bees' health than necessary. They already have enough problems. Ted Fischer ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 Jun 1996 15:30:37 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "" Subject: Tucson Bee Lab Closure To: All interested parties From: Larry Connor, Wicwas Press Re: Industry response to plan to close Tucson Bee Lab The following letter was sent to all members of the U.S. House and Senate Agriculture appropriations Subcommittees on 28 May 1996. The final letter was prepared by Mary Kay Thatcher of the American Farm Bureau. 202 484-3604 fax. Since most of these people involved in the preparation of this letter are not internet users, I feel it is important to post this letter on the B-List. Letter to House and Senate Ag Appropriations Subcommunities The undersigned organizations, representing the entire honey bee industry as well as a vast majority of farmers who need bees for pollination, wish to bring to your attention the U.S. Department of Agriculture/Agricultural Research Service proposal to close the Carl Hayden Bee Research Center in Tucson, Arizona. There are several reasons why we believe this is not in the best interests of beekeepers or of factors dependent on bees for pollination. The research needs facing the bee industry have never been greater. Mite problems continue to plague beekeepers. Heavy loss of colonies continues at an alarming rate, despite treatment. The continued migration of the Africanized Honey Bee will cause more beekeepers to experience problems while posing significant public health problems as Africanized bees and humans interact. Their impact on pollination is still not clear. Other serious problems include chalkbrood and foulbrood, wax moth and viral bee diseases, The Carl Hayden Center is important because its strategic location in the desert allows researchers to conduct year-round activities on bee and pollination problems. The Center recently developed a public education program to assist pest control officials remove the growing number of unwanted and potentially dangerous Africanized honey bee swarms, The Center was the first ARS facility to have a home page on the World Wide Web, which currently serves 13,000 customer requests per week for information on bees. Earlier this month, the Center's home page won the Secretary's Award. for public service. The Tucson Center is ranked by the ARS as its second most productive bee lab and among the most productive of all ARS laboratories. We understand the budgetary realities that you must address. We want to assist you in meeting those goals and believe this can be accomplished while maintaining a strong research program to address honey bee and pollination problems. Included in this, is transferring wild bee research programs from the ARS facility in Logan, Utah to other ARS laboratories. Additional budget savings, if necessary, should be accomplished by seeking the input from ARS customers-beekeepers and pollination users. While we understand the financial constraints imposed upon ARS, we believe alternatives are available that minimize the impact to ARS' total bee research program. Closing the Tucson lab will have a significant, negative impact on bee research in the U.S. Thank you for considering our views. American Beekeeping Federation American Farm Bureau Federation American Honey Producers Association International Apple Institute United Fresh Fruit and Vegetable Association Western Growers Association ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 Jun 1996 12:40:06 PDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Adrian Wenner Subject: Re: bees as "superorganisms" >This ["superorganism] insight is as least as old as Darwin, isn't it? I had >thought that Darwin used this notion to explain why bees >did things clearly not in their own individual interest >(such as stinging and thereby killing themselves) but which >were in the interest of the hive as a whole. >Just a thought- I'd love to read more about latest views on it. The earliest record we know for the concept is that of Pliny, about 23-79 A.D., when he wrote: "What men, I protest, can we rank in rationaity with these [bees], which unquestionably excel mankind in this, that they recognize only the common interest." For a summary of some early thought on the topic, consult Excursus MM --- pp. 294-298 in our book, ANATOMY OF A CONTROVERSY (1990: Columbia University Press). If not too many requests come in, I can send a photocopy of those pages. Please reply to me directly, not to the Net. Adrian *************************************************************** * Adrian Wenner E-Mail wenner@lifesci.lscf.ucsb.edu * * Dept.Ecol.,Evol.,& Mar.Biol. Office Phone (805) 893-2838 * * University of California Lab Phone (805) 893-2675 * * Santa Barbara, CA 93106 FAX (805) 893-8062 * * * *************************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 Jun 1996 13:57:42 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Roy Nettlebeck Subject: Re: Tucson Bee Lab Closure In-Reply-To: <960611152952_324997697@emout14.mail.aol.com> On Tue, 11 Jun 1996, wrote: > To: All interested parties > From: Larry Connor, Wicwas Press > Re: Industry response to plan to close Tucson Bee Lab > > The following letter was sent to all members of the U.S. House and Senate > Agriculture appropriations Subcommittees on 28 May 1996. The final letter was > prepared by Mary Kay Thatcher of the American Farm Bureau. 202 484-3604 fax. > > Since most of these people involved in the preparation of this letter are not > internet users, I feel it is important to post this letter on the B-List. > > Letter to House and Senate Ag Appropriations Subcommunities > > The undersigned organizations, representing the entire honey bee industry as > well as a vast majority of farmers who need bees for pollination, wish to > bring to your attention the U.S. Department of Agriculture/Agricultural > Research Service proposal to close the Carl Hayden Bee Research Center in > Tucson, Arizona. There are several reasons why we believe this is not in the > best interests of beekeepers or of factors dependent on bees for pollination. > The research needs facing the bee industry have never been greater. Mite > problems continue to plague beekeepers. Heavy loss of colonies continues at > an alarming rate, despite treatment. The continued migration of the > Africanized Honey Bee will cause more beekeepers to experience problems while > posing significant public health problems as Africanized bees and humans > interact. Their impact on pollination is still not clear. Other serious > problems include chalkbrood and foulbrood, wax moth and viral bee diseases, > The Carl Hayden Center is important because its strategic location in the > desert allows researchers to conduct year-round activities on bee and > pollination problems. The Center recently developed a public education > program to assist pest control officials remove the growing number of > unwanted and potentially dangerous Africanized honey bee swarms, The Center > was the first ARS facility to have a home page on the World Wide Web, which > currently serves 13,000 customer requests per week for information on bees. > Earlier this month, the Center's home page won the Secretary's Award. for > public service. The Tucson Center is ranked by the ARS as its second most > productive bee lab and among the most productive of all ARS laboratories. > We understand the budgetary realities that you must address. We want to > assist you in meeting those goals and believe this can be accomplished while > maintaining a strong research program to address honey bee and pollination > problems. Included in this, is transferring wild bee research programs from > the ARS facility in Logan, Utah to other ARS laboratories. Additional budget > savings, if necessary, should be accomplished by seeking the input from ARS > customers-beekeepers and pollination users. While we understand the financial > constraints imposed upon ARS, we believe alternatives are available that > minimize the impact to ARS' total bee research program. Closing the Tucson > lab will have a significant, negative impact on bee research in the U.S. > Thank you for considering our views. > > American Beekeeping Federation > American Farm Bureau Federation > American Honey Producers Association > International Apple Institute > United Fresh Fruit and Vegetable Association > Western Growers Association Hi Larry and those in the US, Thank you Larry for posting the letter.This list knows our problem with the mites.We need more work done to get the mites under control without more cost to the beekeeper and chemicals that will work as a short term fix. I was asked to help a local news paper on a story about the mites and what effect it has on all of us in the US. I told them that we still don't know , because we can not count on what we have to slow the mite down to a controlled level.The public needs the truth and it dosen't need to be blown up. the facts and figures speak for themselves. They need to be shown what impact the loss of honeybees will have on there food. It only cost me about two hour of time and I did get a free lunch. I told the reporter to go in the computer and read some on this list about Varroa. He did and he will do an indepth article in the near future. The paper only gets into 35,000 + homes a day , but if I could get 200 people to write Washington it would be a plus.The squeaky wheel gets the grease. The letter was great and a follow up by individuals really hits home.Now days you need a cannon to get any money out of DC. But if they can see that it will cost them more not to act and help the bee and beekeeper we have a chance.The tax loss do to lower crop production is real and they have to look at that part of the whole. Thanks Everyone for your time. Best Regards Roy ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 Jun 1996 15:40:38 -0600 Reply-To: allend@internode.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Allen Dick Organization: The Beekeepers Subject: Tiny Excluders I wonder how many on the list have tried the new concept in queen excluders -- the excluders that only cover the centre part of the upper brood chamber? Several concepts are being used, and I have no personal experience with any. Any observations and/or anecdotes would be appreciated. Regards Allen W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper VE6CFK RR#1, Swalwell, Alberta Canada T0M 1Y0 Internet:dicka@cuug.ab.ca & allend@internode.net Honey. Bees, & Art ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 Jun 1996 18:12:36 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Bill Miller Subject: Re: reequeening aggressive bees Dealing with a hot colony: First off, bees aren't aggressive, they're defensive (although I admit the distinction is moot when you are getting multiple stings). Possible solutions: 1) Take a "You girls think you're tough? I'm tougher!" attitude and get the job done come what may. Very painful and not normally reccomended. If you try it, get a good bee suit and tape all the openings. 2) Split the colony in two, moving the boxes at least 50 feet from each other. Leave a box at the original hive location. What you have done is change the one large, hot colony into two smaller colonies. In about a week, check both. The one with new eggs in it will have the old queen. Knock out any queen cells you may find in the other box. If you don't find the queen (but know which box she is in), put your new queen in the queenless box, and treat that like a regular requeening. Go through the box with the old queen in it every few days, and when you find her, kill her. You then recombine the boxes (the new queen should be established in the other box) to make one colony again. Should you find the old queen on the first day, kill her, knock out any queen cells you find in the other box, combine the boxes and intoduce your new queen. Either way your colony should show your new queen's traits after about 6 weeks. 3) Let nature take it's course. If the queen in the hot colony is old, you can wait until the colony supercedes her or swarms, and see what Nature brings you for the next queen. Least stings to you, but it takes the longest time to get results. Personally, I pick Alternative 2. W. G. Miller Gaithersburg, MD, USA ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 Jun 1996 19:56:16 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Doug Robertson Subject: Burr comb between frames We're beginners at all this. We installed our bees into their hive successfully, but we are having a problem with the workers bridging between the top bars and hanging a comb from it between the frames. When a frame is removed from the super the burr comb breaks off. The frames are pushed as close together as they will go. We hate to see them wasting all this energy. How can we prvent this? ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 Jun 1996 20:07:18 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "my name is Dean M. Breaux" Subject: Re: low temperature queens In a message dated 96-06-11 09:22:36 EDT, you write: >, > >Is there anybody out their who has experience with breeding queens in a >breeding-case at a lower temperature then the normal 34-34.5 C (94 F) ? >It takes a few days longer for the queeens to emerge, but they should be >bigger and stronger (???). I have found the first statement to be through, >but I cannot check the other statements. > > We have used incubators to house Queen cells in for years. To date we have not seen any diffrence in the size or weights of our queens due to running the incubators at lower temperatures (93 F) we often times will lower the temperature a degree or two to delay emergence of the Queens because of weather etc.. As the lower temp. retards the development of the queens I do not understand how it could make the queens any Bigger or Stronger. If anybody else has any experence in this, I would be glad to hear about it. If I could get bigger stronger Queens from lowering the Temperature I would do it all the time. Dean Breaux Hybri-Bees ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 Jun 1996 21:17:02 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "my name is Dean M. Breaux" Subject: Re: Burr comb between frames In a message dated 96-06-11 19:59:52 EDT, you write: >We're beginners at all this. We installed our bees into their hive >successfully, but we are having a problem with the workers bridging between >the top bars and hanging a comb from it between the frames. When a frame is >removed from the super the burr comb breaks off. The frames are pushed as >close together as they will go. We hate to see them wasting all this energy. >How can we prvent this? > > If the hive has at least five frames of bees on drawn comb you can place a sheet of foundation between the drawn combs and it will keep them from drawing it from the top bars. Only place one frame into the drawn comb of the brood nest brood nest at a time as it is not good to disrupt the brood nest to much. Dean Breaux Hybri-Bees ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 Jun 1996 20:38:38 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: David Hinz Subject: Re: Northern Idaho In-Reply-To: <199606112356.TAA20607@ns1.lr.net> Can anyone recommend beekeeping equipment and bee suppliers in Northern Idaho? David ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 Jun 1996 20:56:56 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: David Hinz Subject: Re: Tucson Bee Lab Closure In-Reply-To: <960611152952_324997697@emout14.mail.aol.com> I began my beekeeping interests in Tucson as a biology student at the University of Arizona. The staff that I met at the bee lab are first class. Considering the logistics of insect migrations and disease, I think a laboratory on the desert frontier is essential for the security of our nation. David On Tue, 11 Jun 1996, wrote: > To: All interested parties > From: Larry Connor, Wicwas Press > Re: Industry response to plan to close Tucson Bee Lab > > The following letter was sent to all members of the U.S. House and Senate > Agriculture appropriations Subcommittees on 28 May 1996. The final letter was > prepared by Mary Kay Thatcher of the American Farm Bureau. 202 484-3604 fax. > > Since most of these people involved in the preparation of this letter are not > internet users, I feel it is important to post this letter on the B-List. > > Letter to House and Senate Ag Appropriations Subcommunities > > The undersigned organizations, representing the entire honey bee industry as > well as a vast majority of farmers who need bees for pollination, wish to > bring to your attention the U.S. Department of Agriculture/Agricultural > Research Service proposal to close the Carl Hayden Bee Research Center in > Tucson, Arizona. There are several reasons why we believe this is not in the > best interests of beekeepers or of factors dependent on bees for pollination. > The research needs facing the bee industry have never been greater. Mite > problems continue to plague beekeepers. Heavy loss of colonies continues at > an alarming rate, despite treatment. The continued migration of the > Africanized Honey Bee will cause more beekeepers to experience problems while > posing significant public health problems as Africanized bees and humans > interact. Their impact on pollination is still not clear. Other serious > problems include chalkbrood and foulbrood, wax moth and viral bee diseases, > The Carl Hayden Center is important because its strategic location in the > desert allows researchers to conduct year-round activities on bee and > pollination problems. The Center recently developed a public education > program to assist pest control officials remove the growing number of > unwanted and potentially dangerous Africanized honey bee swarms, The Center > was the first ARS facility to have a home page on the World Wide Web, which > currently serves 13,000 customer requests per week for information on bees. > Earlier this month, the Center's home page won the Secretary's Award. for > public service. The Tucson Center is ranked by the ARS as its second most > productive bee lab and among the most productive of all ARS laboratories. > We understand the budgetary realities that you must address. We want to > assist you in meeting those goals and believe this can be accomplished while > maintaining a strong research program to address honey bee and pollination > problems. Included in this, is transferring wild bee research programs from > the ARS facility in Logan, Utah to other ARS laboratories. Additional budget > savings, if necessary, should be accomplished by seeking the input from ARS > customers-beekeepers and pollination users. While we understand the financial > constraints imposed upon ARS, we believe alternatives are available that > minimize the impact to ARS' total bee research program. Closing the Tucson > lab will have a significant, negative impact on bee research in the U.S. > Thank you for considering our views. > > American Beekeeping Federation > American Farm Bureau Federation > American Honey Producers Association > International Apple Institute > United Fresh Fruit and Vegetable Association > Western Growers Association > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 Jun 1996 06:38:10 +0100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Sid Pullinger Subject: Agressive bees Put any supers on other hives, uniting with a sheet of newspaper. The bees in them will not infect the other bees. If on a double brood chamber drive them down to one with heavy smoke. Put the empty brood chamber on top of the supers and let any brood work out. Move the full broodchamber several yards to a new place in the apiary. In a couple of days the fliers will have returned to the next hive to the old site and you will have a much weakened stock. So far you have not had the hassle of going through the combs. Now working quickly split the stock into two and move them again to new sites _________________________________________________________________ Sid Pullinger Email : sidpul@aladdin.co.uk 36, Grange Rd Compuserve: 100343.1216@compuserve.com Alresford Hants SO24 9HF England ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 Jun 1996 07:48:03 +0100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Sid Pullinger Subject: Aggressive bees << Put any supers on other hives, uniting with a sheet of newspaper. The bees in them will not infect the other bees. Usually all aggression disappears as soon as the bees are separated from their queen. If on a double brood chamber drive them down to one with heavy smoke. Put the empty brood chamber on top of the supers and let any brood work out. Move the full broodchamber several yards to a new place in the apiary. In a couple of days the fliers will have returned to the next hive to the old site and you will have a much weakened stock. So far you have not had the hassle of going through the combs. Now working quickly split the stock into two and move them again to new sites.>>> Apologies all round. I was interrupted at this point and later sent it accidentally. I continue --- This may seem long-winded but total time is negligible. The queen is now in a five comb nucleus and most of the older bees (usually the aggressive ones) have gone. Wait a week. Take a quick glance in one. If you find eggs you have the queen. If you find emergency cells you know the queen is in the other one. All you have to do now is to look through a five comb nucleus of young bees. If you want to weaken it still further move it again and wait two days. The queen should now stick out like a sore thumb. I have neighbours and if any new stock shows aggression I have to get rid of it with the least possible chance of upset. Searching for a queen in a strong aggressive stock would be asking for trouble. Having killed the queen and destroyed the emergency cells you can put all back together and requeen or share it out to finish the brood. Usually all aggression disappears within a day of the death of the queen. Sid P. _________________________________________________________________ Sid Pullinger Email : sidpul@aladdin.co.uk 36, Grange Rd Compuserve: 100343.1216@compuserve.com Alresford Hants SO24 9HF England ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 Jun 1996 09:17:38 GMT+2 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: MIKE ALLSOPP Organization: N.I.P.B VREDENBURG Subject: Re: bees as "superorganisms" Greetings all > > Can anyone provide information regarding a book that was published a couple > of years ago out of Cornell University that made the argument that the hive > can be seen as an autonomous being - a "superorganism". The idea being that > a hive expresses all the same characteristics as a normal organism might. I > saw one of the authors give a talk a few years back on the subject and have > yet to see or hear of the book. Has anyone got any information they could share? > The book that you are (probably) referring to is called "Bees as Superorganisms: an evolutionary reality", by Robin Moritz and Ed Southwick. It was published by Springer-Verlag in 1992. Cheers Mike Mike Allsopp tel (27)(21) 887-4690 Honeybee Research Section fax (27)(21) 883-3285 Plant Protection Research Institute pmail plant3/vredma Agricultural Research Council email vredma@plant3.agric.za P/Bag X5017 Stellenbosch 7599 South Africa ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 Jun 1996 17:14:56 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "David. E. Goble" Subject: Re: NZ/Hawaii... > [snip] > Hi Andy; Regarding your comments that the calif, bees are the best, as an Australian and international trained bee scientist, ( Grad, of Calif, Univ, Davis) spending much time in your country and state, I would like to point out that every bee has it own special environmental understanding of the local environmental influences. This is why in the late 1960'/70' queen breeders all over the world spent many hours testing their own bees characteristics and then evaluating them against the particular intersts of many other places. California for far to long was only interested in queen in packages for their fruit trees and plant pollination, and by this concentration lost the ability to work their bees in the local natural bush honey production. As you should be aware these areas of orchards where developed into massive housing developments because the beekeepers failed to meet there morgage commitments and the housing developemnts also failed. This is the free enterprise system we all hear so much about from USA, but this demonstrates that only the STRONG, gain profit. Dr Brian. E. Goble PhD. OV. RAS. Principal Scientist SEE URL: http://www.eastend.com.au/~goble Thanks from : goble@eastend.com.au http://www.eastend.com.au/~goble degob1@mugc.cc.monash.ed.au ( David Goble ) American Beach Kangaroo Island South Australia ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 Jun 1996 02:36:00 GMT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Andy Nachbaur Organization: WILD BEE'S BBS (209) 826-8107 LOS BANOS, CA Subject: Tiny Excluders AD>From: Allen Dick >Date: Tue, 11 Jun 1996 15:40:38 -0600 >Subject: Tiny Excluders >Organization: The Beekeepers AD>I wonder how many on the list have tried the new concept in queen >excluders -- the excluders that only cover the centre part of the >upper brood chamber? AD>Several concepts are being used, and I have no personal experience >with any. AD>Any observations and/or anecdotes would be appreciated. Hi Allen, hope your long winter is over and the bees are busy,,,! Have not heard a thing on any new queen excluders, but do know the first excluders in use here were (late 1890's) a flat metal strip around the bottom of the 2nd brood box that extended a inch or two. It did work OK according to the last old bee man that used them, and the idea was the queen passed upstairs using the outside combs or something. I believe that they did work myself, but long ago gave up on honey excluders as in this area we need the maximum brood production because our "flush" season is really short. Bee's here with no excluders make at least one more super of honey of Wild Buckwheat honey and brood is not a problem in the honey supers if the flow is normal as the brood is all blocked out in a few weeks and all we have to do is wait for a few days or so for the sealed brood to hatch. If you have any old time comb honey supers with the metal strips on the bottom edges you will get the idea of what this old idea for excluding queens looked like. I am not anti-excluder and imported several thousand years ago from OZ made of a good plastic that I used for years in the sage which can be a "on and off" flow that the bees will use most of for brood and without the excluders would be in some years a bust for honey, but would make swarms that would overflow 5 full depth brood boxes. BTW: The best all around excluders I ever purchased came from Canada and were flat wire I believe called Chrysler. They were over priced by the time we got them here, but were the best and seldom did a queen get up, in fact I don't remember ever having one up, and the help had to work to mess them up they were so well built. Don't know what the Canadians thought of them, but if it like most local produced bee equipment made here, they would pay more to import something that was not as good, as that has been my experience in the beekeeping world. Beekeepers trip over rocks of gold to put there bees in someone else desert pasture and do the same to locally manufactured bee equipment. It always has amazed and amused me in one trip back east visiting all the beekeepers from here to there the closer I got to Dadant's manufacturing plant in Ill, the more horror stories I would hear about Dadant's products. The best all around plastic frames I ever found in searching the whole world I found in Australia and I could find nothing good said about them from the local beekeepers. They sure worked here and bees would draw them out better then thin regular wax foundation as the plastic had almost better thermal properties then the wax and a lot better then the plastics used today in foundations and combs. We could only believe that there was a chemical in the manufacturing process that kept the bees off of it when used fresh from the molds and this chemical was released over time as it was more then a years delay between manufacture and our own use. I suspect that something like that also was going on with some of Dadant's early production as the local beekeepers close to their plant would have one of these frames hanging up on the wall in the extracting room to show every beekeeper that came by what junk Dadant's was putting out, and at the same time I was using the same product by the ton in California without a problem in the world. ttul Andy- --- ~ QMPro 1.53 ~ "Where there is honey, there are beekeepers" ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 Jun 1996 11:57:09 +0300 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Stefan Ivanov Subject: apistan and honey price Hi beekeepers, Does anybody out there could tell me where I could buy apistan ? I live in Bulgaria so an addresses of an European distributors will help me enough.As well as how to apply it and is it "dangerous" for the bees and the honey ? If I am not so rough , could you please tell me what is the average price of honey in U.S. ? Thanks Stefan ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 Jun 1996 08:03:11 PDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Adrian Wenner Subject: Re: Aggressive bees Quite a few have commented recently about "aggressive bees." In my studies of varroa mite infestation, I have noticed that aggression seems to get more intense with ever-greater infestation rates. In one hive on Santa Cruz Island last week, the bees were almost impossible to work --- even with heavy doses of smoke. A check of the level of infestation revealed that the colony likely had only another month or so of life. Has anyone else noticed that correlation? If real, anyone finding a suddenly aggressive colony might inspect closely for varroa mites, using one or more of the eight known techniques (as listed in our June article in BEE CULTURE: P. 343). Adrian *************************************************************** * Adrian Wenner E-Mail wenner@lifesci.lscf.ucsb.edu * * Dept.Ecol.,Evol.,& Mar.Biol. Office Phone (805) 893-2838 * * University of California Lab Phone (805) 893-2675 * * Santa Barbara, CA 93106 FAX (805) 893-8062 * * * *************************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 Jun 1996 09:45:44 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ted Fischer Subject: Re: Burr comb between frames REGARDING RE>Burr comb between frames Doug Robertson wrote: "We're beginners at all this. We installed our bees into their hive successfully, but we are having a problem with the workers bridging between the top bars and hanging a comb from it between the frames. When a frame is removed from the super the burr comb breaks off. The frames are pushed as close together as they will go. We hate to see them wasting all this energy. How can we prvent this?" Using some drawn comb, as was suggested, is an excellent idea. However, if you only have foundation at this point, sometimes the problem with burr comb occurs if the foundation is not hanging completely vertical (is bowed to one side). You may want to check this, and if it is the case, just reverse a frame or two. Otherwise, you'll just have to live with it and cut out the extra comb. I assume you are using the full ten frames. This is necessary for foundation, but when it is drawn out I always reduce to nine frames for brood chambers and eight for supers. Ted Fischer ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 Jun 1996 14:28:20 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Joel Govostes Subject: Honey-clogged brood nests - solution? The 20 single story hives which I made up as splits with queen cells are doing well. Maybe TOO well. A few of the queens have started laying. BUT -- the black locust (wonderful) flow has been long and heavy. So whilst waiting for their queens to emerge and get to work, guess what my little friends have done? Yup; in many cases almost completely filled the single brood chambers with honey! So much so that there are precious few cells for the queens to lay in. It was quite a sight to lift lid after lid and be greeted with rows of bulging, pure white capped combs. Q: Will the bees move this honey to make room for the brood??! I have added a honey super over an excluder on each hive with hopes that they will. Much of the honey clogging the brood chamber is capped already. On one hive it was so bad I gave the queen (laying) a new empty brood chamber under the honey filled one. Still, I was hoping to keep these to one story and move them easily once there were a few combs going well with brood. Any suggestions appreciated -- figures there's such a great flow of light honey after such a lossy winter! Cheers, JWG ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 Jun 1996 15:41:52 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "(Kevin & Shawna Roberts)" Subject: Re: toxicity of sevin xlr plus I don't have personal experience, but I have been told that the new formulation of sevin that is being used on apples here in California is okay. I know a beekeeper who had bees in the apples this year, and he said the growers in his area used the new formulation. He didn't take precautions with his hives, and he says he didn't lose any. Just second-hand information, unfortunately. Good luck. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 Jun 1996 15:57:24 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Dave Green, Eastern Pollinator Newsletter" Subject: Re: Honey-clogged brood nests - solution? In a message dated 96-06-12 15:27:56 EDT, jwg6@cornell.edu (Joel Govostes) writes: >The 20 single story hives which I made up as splits with queen cells are >doing well. Maybe TOO well. A few of the queens have started laying. BUT >-- the black locust (wonderful) flow has been long and heavy. So whilst >waiting for their queens to emerge and get to work, guess what my little >friends have done? Yup; in many cases almost completely filled the single >brood chambers with honey! So much so that there are precious few cells >for the queens to lay in. It was quite a sight to lift lid after lid and >be greeted with rows of bulging, pure white capped combs. > >Q: Will the bees move this honey to make room for the brood??! >I have added a honey super over an excluder on each hive with hopes that >they will. Much of the honey clogging the brood chamber is capped already. >On one hive it was so bad I gave the queen (laying) a new empty brood >chamber under the honey filled one. Still, I was hoping to keep these to >one story and move them easily once there were a few combs going well with >brood. Any suggestions appreciated -- figures there's such a great flow of >light honey after such a lossy winter! Cheers, JWG > > The old time beekeeper told me, that when there isn't a flow, you can't do anything right. When there IS one, you can hardly do anything wrong. But, he added one exception: not having enough supers on, when the flow is on. Honeybound hives will dwindle, because there is no room for brood rearing. Soon the bees will be all old bees, and they are apt to be nasty, as well. And going into winter with old bees and little stored pollen is a certain prescription for winter loss. I think it also tends to encourage more mite build up, etc. They will not move capped honey back upstairs in my experience. You need to pull three or four frames and put empty comb back so the queen has room to lay. If I didn't have empty comb, I'd use foundation, though there are some good reasons not to put that in the brood nest right now. --Still better than being honeybound. Alternatively, put another brood chamber underneath. If you have deeps, just move down a frame of brood with the queen, and what brood there is above the excluder will hatch and be replaced with honey. Give them an upper entrance, so drones can escape, or they'll clog the excluder with their carcasses. Our spring flow is over here, and we are sizzling. I just came in for a while to enjoy some air conditioning, because my legs were getting a little wobbly. We had an exceptionally good flow, and if I hadn't had to make up so many new hives/nucs, we'd have had a very large honey crop. As it is, we made more than in any of the last three years. Last year was really poor, with no spring honey at all, and the fall flow didn't come near to making up the deficiency. I'm hearing reports of good flows all over the northeast. Not much competition for the nectar, maybe. Nice to have a good year now and then........Right???? Pollinator@aol.com Dave Green, PO Box 1200, Hemingway, SC 29554 Practical Pollination Home Page Dave & Janice Green http://users.aol.com/pollinator/polpage1.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 Jun 1996 15:57:46 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Dave Green, Eastern Pollinator Newsletter" Subject: Re: Aggressive bees In a message dated 96-06-12 11:09:43 EDT, wenner@lifesci.lscf.ucsb.edu (Adrian Wenner) writes: >A check of the level of infestation revealed >that the colony likely had only another month or so of life. > > Has anyone else noticed that correlation? If real, anyone finding a >suddenly aggressive colony might inspect closely for varroa mites, using >one or more of the eight known techniques (as listed in our June article in >BEE CULTURE: P. 343). I haven't seen this, though I wouldn't be surprised. Chalkbrood seems to run along with varroa, too. Once the brood is being seriously lost, most of the bees will be old bees, hence more apt to sting. I have seen really nasty bees many times, after a light pesticide hit. Sevin will really make them ugly, and I think most of the organophosphates will also. Pollinator@aol.com Dave Green, PO Box 1200, Hemingway, SC 29554 Practical Pollination Home Page Dave & Janice Green http://users.aol.com/pollinator/polpage1.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 Jun 1996 10:48:00 GMT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Andy Nachbaur Organization: WILD BEE'S BBS (209) 826-8107 LOS BANOS, CA Subject: Re: Tucson Bee Lab Closure DH>From: David Hinz >Date: Tue, 11 Jun 1996 20:56:56 -0700 >Subject: Re: Tucson Bee Lab Closure DH>I began my beekeeping interests in Tucson as a biology student at the >University of Arizona. The staff that I met at the bee lab are first >class. Considering the logistics of insect migrations and disease, I think >a laboratory on the desert frontier is essential for the security of our >nation. Well, David, I agree with you about the personal at least the one's I have ever had the opportunity to work or meet with in the past from Hamilton to Levin. As far as the "essential" and having a "desert" lab I would say that if it had been built in an area like Central California or Northern California it would not be closing today as it would have had several billion dollars worth of farm crop support from farmers who depend on bees for crop pollination plus the largest and most active group of commercial and hobby beekeepers and in the spring a large percentage of all the bees on wheels in the United States who take part in one of the great wonders of the agricultural world, the movement of 800,000+- hives of bees to pollinate 400,000+- acres of almond trees. Plus a direct connection to several of the best agricultural higher education institutions in the world and many other universities and numerous private, and many other government agricultural research labs of many flavors most of which are also closing now. I had a home in Arizona myself and my X wife is a UA alumnus and still sits on several agricultural committee's and boards dealing with fed-state extension as I have at the UC Berkeley representing beekeeping industry interests long ago to the regents and university president and know how good the UA and UC are, just is case some will say I am writing from the shallow prospective of a un-informed California beekeeper. Water over the falls now, but then it was a political decision to build the bee lab in Tucson which has never been 100% utilized for bee research and now it is a political decision to close it, one with little hope of change by the beekeepers. I never worked at the lab, but spent much time with the people there from day one and at other times doing much jawing and much library research of my own. It was a good place for near retirement USDA personal to set up their new homes outside of the snow belt before retirement and a surprising number of them now live in the area including a few old time bee keepers at Green Valley. Kind of a perk within the USDA system and not one that necessarily gave us the best bang for our buck from its leadership with retirement on their minds. Many beekeepers got more then tired at hearing year after year at annual beekeeping meeting from upper echelon USDA bee scientists of reorganization plans and seeing boring charts of the science of the structure of the USDA research command with the name and command changes when they had real bee problems in their bee hives at home they had to live with every day, including annual death loss the was growing every year for less then 10% in the 50's to 50%+- in the 90's. PMS, now bPMS is typical of the so called BeeScience work product output by the USDA. Anyone in the interested public who stands back and looks closely can see that over the years the USDA has spent more time renaming reoccurring bee problems that they could not find viable explanations for then providing solutions other then the annual carrot always held out to the bee industry to keep them interested, such as the new natural approach to bee pests, which is not new and may not be so natural. It is my personal observation that outside of the beekeeping and farm organizations with their paid managers there is not enough grass roots beekeeper support anymore for bee research in the US. I believe this is somewhat a back lash for the bee quarantine mentality of the USDA Bee Research leadership and the destruction of the lives of some innocent beekeepers who were found with so called pests through no fault of their own, and the total quit, a real silent spring, from the USDA bee research personal at all levels, many who knew better at the time and stood by and watched if not acting as cheer leaders. The fact is that USDA bee research appears to be more bee regulatory and big chemical business orientated then a problem solving research organization for the common everyday variety bee problem and their keepers. No so when it comes to helping chemical companies, and one lucky chemical company with the help of the USDA has managed to in a short time to get into the beekeepers pockets to a greater extent then any manufactures of new beekeeping equipment. In no small part responsible for the near depression in the beekeeping equipment manufacturing business. Reference the placing of the bee industry on the "farm chemical merry go around" and the necessity of the USDA now begging the same beekeepers to find bee stock that has never been treated with the "approved" chemicals which is in direct opposition to the best advice they have been putting out. Then if you were a Hawaiian beekeeper and believed the same USDA bee research people sold out cheep your interests in healthy bees to a foreign interest would you give anything more then lip service to keeping the same so called Bee Research system going? ttul Andy- (c) Permission is granted to freely copy this document in any form, or to print for any use. (w)Opinions are not necessarily facts. Use at own risk. --- ~ QMPro 1.53 ~ I Love HONEY! I Love HONEY! I Love HONEY! I Love U HONEY! ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 01:06:12 GMT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Franklin D. Humphrey Sr." Subject: Re: Burr comb between frames At 01:45 PM 6/12/96 +0000, you wrote: > REGARDING RE>Burr comb between frames > >Doug Robertson wrote: >"We're beginners at all this. We installed our bees into their hive >successfully, but we are having a problem with the workers bridging between >the top bars and hanging a comb from it between the frames. When a frame is >removed from the super the burr comb breaks off. The frames are pushed as >close together as they will go. We hate to see them wasting all this energy. >How can we prvent this?" > >Using some drawn comb, as was suggested, is an excellent idea. However, if >you only have foundation at this point, sometimes the problem with burr comb >occurs if the foundation is not hanging completely vertical (is bowed to one >side). You may want to check this, and if it is the case, just reverse a >frame or two. Otherwise, you'll just have to live with it and cut out the >extra comb. I assume you are using the full ten frames. This is necessary >for foundation, but when it is drawn out I always reduce to nine frames for >brood chambers and eight for supers. > >Ted Fischer > Hi Doug and Ted I have been trying different stains of bees ,Yugos, 3 banded Italian, yellow Italian etc., and I have come across 2 strains that build burr comb between the frames in the brood nest. One has so much burr comb between the frames it appears impossible for the bees to go above the brood nest. However this colony is in a single brood chamber, has 10 frames of brood, and is now working in their 5th super. Based on this, I've decided not to worry about the burr comb. Frank Humphrey beekeeper@worldnet.att.net ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 00:43:00 GMT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Andy Nachbaur Organization: WILD BEE'S BBS (209) 826-8107 LOS BANOS, CA Subject: Re: Aggressive beesQuite a few have commented recently about "aggressi e bees." In my AW>From: Adrian Wenner >Date: Wed, 12 Jun 1996 08:03:11 PDT >Subject: Re: Aggressive bees AW> Quite a few have commented recently about "aggressive bees." In my >studies of varroa mite infestation, I have noticed that aggression seems to >get more intense with ever-greater infestation rates. In one hive on Santa >Cruz Island last week, the bees were almost impossible to work --- even >with heavy doses of smoke. A check of the level of infestation revealed >that the colony likely had only another month or so of life. AW> Has anyone else noticed that correlation? If real, anyone finding a >suddenly aggressive colony might inspect closely for varroa mites, using >one or more of the eight known techniques (as listed in our June article in >BEE CULTURE: P. 343). No I have never heard or experienced this, if anything the weaker the hives with varroa or without the less aggressive the bees to the point that the last dozen or so bees fly off into oblivion when opened. How did the bees on this isolated island get varroa mite in the first place? How far from shore is it? ttul Andy- --- ~ QMPro 1.53 ~ ... To sway its silent chimes, else must the bee, ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 Jun 1996 22:28:01 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Michael Lance High Sr." Subject: Hey,they FINALLY noticed... Thought I would post that here in Va., the news media got wind of the mite problem.The local paper had an article Monday about the decline of colonies domesticated & feral.It was an AP byline meaning they got it off the wire.The gist of it was that apple prices would be going up and the backyard gardener would be in a bit of trouble w/o our friends.Already I have had people that did'nt give a 2 penny damn about bees except so as not to get stung coming pumping me for info.I must admit the temptation was there to tell them to go get bent,but I figured its better to be nice, so I told them about the problem and whats being done.(that I'm aware of) Near as I can tell, this is resulting in good-will towards me as people for a mile or so around seem relieved that SOMEBODY is keeping bees so they will have a garden.I could'nt bear to tell them they were'nt the only reason for my swarms.I know I'm beating a dead horse again, but still have yet to find any feral swarms for miles.Actually, this makes me optimistic.I hope that with no infected swarms near-by, my apiary might remain free of the mites........ ML High "I take my chances,I don't mind working without a net, I take my chances,I take my chances every chance I get" Mary Chapin Carpenter ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 00:02:37 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: MR JOHN N THOMPSON Subject: INVOKE THE SET COMMAND PLEASE!!!!!! -- [ From: J. Neil Thompson * EMC.Ver #2.10P ] -- I have just subscribed to you folk and wish to "SET BEE-L NOMAIL" ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 00:32:53 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Michael Moroney Subject: Re: Aggressive bees In-Reply-To: <<199606120648.HAA07569@beta.aladdin.co.uk> > Having killed the queen and destroyed the emergency cells you can put all > back together and requeen or share it out to finish the brood. Usually all > aggression disappears within a day of the death of the queen. This implies the queen produces an odor or something that makes bees aggressive. Is this true? If the aggressiveness was genetic it would take several weeks to disappear, if environmental requeening would have no effect until whatever was wrong was fixed. I am curious about this since two years ago I had 2 hives next to each other, one was gentle while the others were the meanest mothers I've ever seen. AHB seemed to be more desirable than those ladies! They just laughed at smoke, too. What was odd was those bees had a supposedly "gentle" Midnite queen. I don't know if that queen was superseded since I wasn't ever able to find her while under attack. I finally just united them with the gentle colony in the fall as both were sort of weak (for the mean colony, probably because all its bees died trying to sting me :-) ). Fortunately the gentle queen "won". -Mike ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 01:43:19 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Michael L. Wallace" Subject: Re: Honey-clogged brood nests - solution? At 02:28 6/12/96 -0500, you wrote: >---------------------- Information from the mail header ----------------------- >Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology >Poster: Joel Govostes >Subject: Honey-clogged brood nests - solution? >------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > >The 20 single story hives which I made up as splits with queen cells are >doing well. Maybe TOO well. A few of the queens have started laying. BUT >-- the black locust (wonderful) flow has been long and heavy. So whilst >waiting for their queens to emerge and get to work, guess what my little >friends have done? Yup; in many cases almost completely filled the single >brood chambers with honey! So much so that there are precious few cells >for the queens to lay in. It was quite a sight to lift lid after lid and >be greeted with rows of bulging, pure white capped combs. > >Q: Will the bees move this honey to make room for the brood??! >I have added a honey super over an excluder on each hive with hopes that >they will. Much of the honey clogging the brood chamber is capped already. >On one hive it was so bad I gave the queen (laying) a new empty brood >chamber under the honey filled one. Still, I was hoping to keep these to >one story and move them easily once there were a few combs going well with >brood. Any suggestions appreciated -- figures there's such a great flow of >light honey after such a lossy winter! Cheers, JWG > My suggestion, if you have the time, energy and equipment, is to go ahead and extract your honey and put the empty (already built up) frames back on the colonies. There's still enough time in the season, with pulled foundation, for them to get a good start on filling the empties up again and this will give the queen plenty of room to lay. With the honey flow as good as it is, who knows, you may even be able to get another partial robbing done before the season ends. And you know what that means? More Honey! :) Cheers, Mike Wallace Bkeeper1@why.net McKinney, Texas USA "If you don't have something good to say, don't say anything at all." ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 10:26:42 GMT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Steve Pearce Subject: British beekeepers/varroa Hi All, Scotland at the moment seems to be almost Varroa free, I was surprised on calling on my local supplier and enquiring about Queens that they get them from a place in Yorkshire. When enquiring about my worries about Varroa introduction into my so far "clean" area, I was told there was no risk. Is this correct, or should I be stirring up a "hornets nest" about this. Steve Pearce Kilspindie Scotland ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 12:12:19 +0100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "THONE HUGO VE144 (240)9452" Subject: Re: British beekeepers/varroa In-Reply-To: <2B36A290EA5@bad.dundee.ac.uk> Steve, "Almost Varroa free" does not exist. If there is varroa in your area and you don't treat your colonies, you won't be a beekeeper anymore within two years. Cheers, Hugo +++++ Hugo Thone (SE144) ALCATEL TELECOM (\ email : thoneh@btmaa.bel.alcatel.be F.Wellesplein 1 {|||8- phone : (32) 3 240 94 52 B-2018 Antwerp (/ fax : (32) 3 240 99 50 do bee do bee do .... ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 10:23:17 +0000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Capt Ken Black Subject: Damage to Queen Cells Thanks for all your comments regarding min Nucs, My next problem is regarding damage to queen cells. I have been producing a few batches of queens this year and aside from the problems of using mini nucs I have also had problems with damaged queen cells. This damage is down to me and I am getting better at removing and transporting the cells. My question is has anyone attempted repairs to a cracked or split cell. I was thinking of melting some wax and using a fine brush to reseal the damaged area and then try it out in the incubator. Does this work and if so how quickly must the damaged area be repaired to increase the chances of success. We have a good flow coming in at the moment. Ken Black Bay Tree Cottage 76 East St, Fritwell '\ /` Bicester, ()() Oxfordshire, England. OX6 9QF \/ 00441869345725 Fax:00441869256678 email: kblack.lisa.mod@gtnet.gov.uk ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 07:18:35 -0600 Reply-To: allend@internode.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Allen Dick Organization: The Beekeepers Subject: Re: Damage to Queen Cells > My next problem is regarding damage to queen cells. I have been > producing a few batches of queens this year and aside from the > problems of using mini nucs I have also had problems with damaged > queen cells. This damage is down to me and I am getting better at > removing and transporting the cells. My question is has anyone > attempted repairs to a cracked or split cell. I was thinking of > melting some wax and using a fine brush to reseal the damaged area > and then try it out in the incubator. Does this work and if so how > quickly must the damaged area be repaired to increase the chances of > success. Hmmm. I wonder how you crack a queen cell. Drop it from a building? Seriously, I used to like to twist cells apart to examine the inhabitant. We use the JayZee BeeZee plastic cups (doesn't everyone?) and the cells made using them can be opened by grasping the cup in one hand and the cell in the other and twisting. The queen can then be examined, weighed, or whatever. After that, I just pressed the thing back together and used it as if nothing had happened. (put the queen in head downwards if you take her out). Results were just fine. Of course youshould do it at a time when the developing queen is not too vulnerable, say after she starts to get colur. Regards Allen W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper VE6CFK RR#1, Swalwell, Alberta Canada T0M 1Y0 Internet:dicka@cuug.ab.ca & allend@internode.net Honey. Bees, & Art ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 09:10:12 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: STEVE PHILLIPS Subject: Amature needs help This is my second year keeping bees. I have six hives of Buckfast bees. Two days ago an acquaintance at work told me that her ex-husband used to keep bees, and when they got divorced 5 years ago he left 4 hives on her uncle's farm. She said her uncle was afraid of bees and no one had touched the hives since the divorce. She said that she thought one hive was still alive, and I could have any or all of the bees/equipment. I live in eastern Kansas and we do have varroa. To my surprise, when I picked the stuff up one of the hives was still alive. It was in two hive bodies, with the entrance reduced to 1/2 inch. The hive is very strong-- packed with bees and honey. It's also about to swarm. It has many queen cells along the bottom bars. What do I do? My guess is that I need to split it somehow, but how? Any suggestions would be appreciated. -Steve Phillips- -Perry, KS- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 10:11:48 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Tim Peters Subject: Re: Honey-clogged brood nests - solution? >In a message dated 96-06-12 15:27:56 EDT, jwg6@cornell.edu (Joel Govostes) >writes: > >>The 20 single story hives which I made up as splits with queen cells are >>doing well. Maybe TOO well. A few of the queens have started laying. BUT >>-- the black locust (wonderful) flow has been long and heavy. So whilst >>waiting for their queens to emerge and get to work, guess what my little >>friends have done? Yup; in many cases almost completely filled the single >>brood chambers with honey! So much so that there are precious few cells >>for the queens to lay in. It was quite a sight to lift lid after lid and >>be greeted with rows of bulging, pure white capped combs. >> I experienced Joel's problem last year, except my hives were two story. We had a mild winter and I was unprepared for a very fast build-up and a huge spring flow. I followed instructions that I had read about preparations for a strong flow and placed queen excluders above the 2nd deep and supers above that. By the middle of June I had 6 supers of capped honey from 2 hives. After I put the excluders on I did not venture a look into the brood chambers. As a moderate summer drought progressed I didn't see anything that resembled much of a honey flow. I had replaced the filled supers but was disappointed to see that not that much more honey was being stored. Then the swarms started. By the end of summer I had 7-8 swarms from 2 hives. It finally dawned on me about mid-August to check the brood chambers. I was amazed to find that both hives had completely filled the 2nd deeps with honey. With strong hives confined to one deep, swarming must have been the only choice. Further reading seemed to place some of the blame on the excluders, so this year I am not using them. This year has been completely different. A long hard winter and a rainy sometimes cold spring maybe makes the difference. Here it is mid-June and I have yet to have a single super filled. On most good weather days the bees seem to be foraging at an acceptable pace, but no surplus as yet. QUESTION: I put on an additional deep with new foundation on each hive this spring. Would the action of drawing comb on new foundation actually slow the rate at which honey is stored? Tim Peters, Kirby VT tpeters@kingcon.com KirBee Apiary, Bear Bait Honey I rather be flying! ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 07:59:33 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Roy Nettlebeck Subject: Re: Tucson Bee Lab Closure In-Reply-To: <960612171242843@beenet.com> On Wed, 12 Jun 1996, Andy Nachbaur wrote: > DH>From: David Hinz > >Date: Tue, 11 Jun 1996 20:56:56 -0700 > >Subject: Re: Tucson Bee Lab Closure > > DH>I began my beekeeping interests in Tucson as a biology student at the > >University of Arizona. The staff that I met at the bee lab are first > >class. Considering the logistics of insect migrations and disease, I think > >a laboratory on the desert frontier is essential for the security of our > >nation. > > Well, David, I agree with you about the personal at least the one's I > have ever had the opportunity to work or meet with in the past from > Hamilton to Levin. As far as the "essential" and having a "desert" lab > I would say that if it had been built in an area like Central California > or Northern California it would not be closing today as it would have > had several billion dollars worth of farm crop support from farmers > who depend on bees for crop pollination plus the largest and most active > group of commercial and hobby beekeepers and in the spring a large > percentage of all the bees on wheels in the United States who take part > in one of the great wonders of the agricultural world, the movement of > 800,000+- hives of bees to pollinate 400,000+- acres of almond trees. > Plus a direct connection to several of the best agricultural higher > education institutions in the world and many other universities and > numerous private, and many other government agricultural research labs > of many flavors most of which are also closing now. > > I had a home in Arizona myself and my X wife is a UA alumnus and still > sits on several agricultural committee's and boards dealing with > fed-state extension as I have at the UC Berkeley representing beekeeping > industry interests long ago to the regents and university president and > know how good the UA and UC are, just is case some will say I am writing > from the shallow prospective of a un-informed California beekeeper. > > Water over the falls now, but then it was a political decision to build > the bee lab in Tucson which has never been 100% utilized for bee > research and now it is a political decision to close it, one with > little hope of change by the beekeepers. > > I never worked at the lab, but spent much time with the people there > from day one and at other times doing much jawing and much library > research of my own. It was a good place for near retirement USDA > personal to set up their new homes outside of the snow belt before > retirement and a surprising number of them now live in the area > including a few old time bee keepers at Green Valley. Kind of a perk > within the USDA system and not one that necessarily gave us the best bang > for our buck from its leadership with retirement on their minds. > > Many beekeepers got more then tired at hearing year after year at annual > beekeeping meeting from upper echelon USDA bee scientists of > reorganization plans and seeing boring charts of the science of the > structure of the USDA research command with the name and command changes > when they had real bee problems in their bee hives at home they had to > live with every day, including annual death loss the was growing every > year for less then 10% in the 50's to 50%+- in the 90's. > > PMS, now bPMS is typical of the so called BeeScience work product output > by the USDA. Anyone in the interested public who stands back and looks > closely can see that over the years the USDA has spent more time > renaming reoccurring bee problems that they could not find viable > explanations for then providing solutions other then the annual carrot > always held out to the bee industry to keep them interested, such as > the new natural approach to bee pests, which is not new and may not be so > natural. > > It is my personal observation that outside of the beekeeping > and farm organizations with their paid managers there is not enough > grass roots beekeeper support anymore for bee research in the US. I > believe this is somewhat a back lash for the bee quarantine mentality > of the USDA Bee Research leadership and the destruction of the lives of > some innocent beekeepers who were found with so called pests through no > fault of their own, and the total quit, a real silent spring, from the > USDA bee research personal at all levels, many who knew better at the > time and stood by and watched if not acting as cheer leaders. > > The fact is that USDA bee research appears to be more bee regulatory and > big chemical business orientated then a problem solving research > organization for the common everyday variety bee problem and their > keepers. No so when it comes to helping chemical companies, and one > lucky chemical company with the help of the USDA has managed to in a > short time to get into the beekeepers pockets to a greater extent then > any manufactures of new beekeeping equipment. In no small part > responsible for the near depression in the beekeeping equipment > manufacturing business. Reference the placing of the bee industry on the > "farm chemical merry go around" and the necessity of the USDA now > begging the same beekeepers to find bee stock that has never been > treated with the "approved" chemicals which is in direct opposition to > the best advice they have been putting out. Then if you were a Hawaiian > beekeeper and believed the same USDA bee research people sold out cheep > your interests in healthy bees to a foreign interest would you give > anything more then lip service to keeping the same so called Bee > Research system going? > Hi Andy and All, The US government is going through a major reshaping. We need change and have to focus on what we really need for them to do for us. The past track record is not good. After spending 32 1/2 years as a civil servant and half of that time in management , I know why we never did get the bang for the buck. When it come to the USDA , it has an upper management problem. You have to define who your custumer is and them provide them with what they need. The people that run the organization must take the time to keep asking the question , are we helping our custumer on what we are doing.Now it sounds simple , but its not. Needs change and they have to change with the needs. I would like to support a very indepth breeding program and see some new genes come into our overall queen breeding program in the US.We have universitys that are doing most of the work that is really helping us beekeepers. I do want the people that are working on honeybee problems to know that I apreciate there effort very much.The USDA has people that are not being used in a way that helps them grow and we beekeepers get what we need. This Varroa mite is not new potatos.There has been research ongoing and most of it has been around chemicals. We have beekeepers trying things themselves and even killing there own bees. I think Andy is right about the beepeepers not doing much to help keep the lab open. We do have some very good people down there and they have given me good info when I asked for it. I don't like to see us loose some very dedicated people because the top is out of control.Its hard to change , but there is no other choice.So I hope that we can save some of the people that want to help beekeeping. My 2 cents worth. I would like to see some feedback from the USDA on what they are doing right now. They earn the trust and respect from the people when, they are open, upfront and honest. Best Regards Roy ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 11:51:44 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Lilia Ibay de Guzman Subject: Varroa help Dear Bee-liners; My name is Lilia de Guzman, and I am a research entomologist at the USDA, ARS Honey Bee Breeding, Genetics and Physiology Lab in Baton Rouge. I am in need of representative samples of varroa from across the United States for research purposes. If you would be interested in helping me by collecting mites, please contact me directly at: lguzman@asrr.arsusda.gov I appreciate any assistance you can provide. Thank you, Lilia ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 15:05:16 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jim Moore DTN276-9448 ogo1/e17 508-496-9448 Subject: Q: At night lots of Bees at the entrance... I'm sure this is a beginner question, but I'm curious. I have read alot but can't recall an explanation for the behaviour. The last few days toward evening there are lots of bees hanging out at the entrance. The hive in particular is a 3lb. package installed 5/1 with the second deep, with new foundation, (I had to borrow the previous deep, not yet drawn, for a swarm) added 6/8, less thans a week ago. The entrance is not reduced. The evenings have been warm. I have a feeder box on top the a bottle of 1:1 inside. Last night around midnight I went and looked and the entire entrace was covered with bees, in some places 2 or 3 deep. I'm assuming it is normal behaviour for a healthy vigorus hive. Is it normal, and what is the reason? I haven't checked the second deep but would assume there is plenty of comb left to draw. Are these mostly young bees with to little to do and waiting for their wax glands to kick in? Or maybe the bees leave the hive to increase the surface area exposed for evaporating the nectar? Very few bees were fanning however. One last thought, do the young bees need to dry/cure the bodies? If so is the humidity inside the hive to high, so they go outside for some dryier air? Thanks. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 17:12:40 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ademilson Espencer Egea Soares Subject: Re: Varroa help In-Reply-To: hi lilia - i am using espencers email while here teaching a short course and saw your message. hope all is well there. no one told me anything and now over the internet i see discussion about the closure of the tucson lab. what's happening? steve sheppard c/o espencer soares p.s. you can respond to shepp@mail.wsu.edu as I can read my mail via telnet - just a problem to send from there... steve On Thu, 13 Jun 1996, Lilia Ibay de Guzman wrote: > Dear Bee-liners; > > My name is Lilia de Guzman, and I am a research entomologist at the USDA, > ARS Honey Bee Breeding, Genetics and Physiology Lab in Baton Rouge. > > I am in need of representative samples of varroa from across the > United States for research purposes. If you would be interested in > helping me by collecting mites, please contact me directly at: > > lguzman@asrr.arsusda.gov > > I appreciate any assistance you can provide. > > Thank you, > > Lilia > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 Jun 1996 11:04:47 +1200 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Robert Rice Subject: Honey To Canada Cliff, Had an enquiry about honey to canada - what's the deal on this ? Person wanting to send a Manuka sample following an enquiry ? Robert. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 Jun 1996 11:23:10 +1200 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Robert Rice Subject: Honey To Canada Bee-L, Sorry BEE-L message not intended for list. Robert. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 22:28:56 +0100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Gordon Scott Subject: Re: Aggressive bees In-Reply-To: <199606120648.HAA07569@beta.aladdin.co.uk> On Wed, 12 Jun 1996, Sid Pullinger wrote: > Usually all aggression disappears within a day of the death of the queen. I'm uncomfortable about that statement Sid. Do you mean from the death of the queen (which seems to make my bees *less* friendly), or do you mean from introduction of the new queen? Very useful posting Sid, please may I print it in our newsletter? Regards, Gordon. -- Gordon Scott gordon@apis.demon.co.uk gordon@multitone.co.uk (work) The Basingstoke Beekeeper (newsletter) beekeeper@apis.demon.co.uk Embryo Home Page Beekeeper; Kendo 3rd Dan; Sometime sailor. Hampshire, England. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 23:59:59 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Tom Allen Subject: Re: Used Equipment query Being concerned about EFB and AFB we irradiate any questionable frames foundations and hives. The' Worcester County Beekeepers Association has an arrangement with an irradiation service, and we take a whole truckload down at at time. It isd well worth the cost in salavaging otherewise questionable materials. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 Jun 1996 06:27:30 +0100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Sid Pullinger Subject: Super combs <>> When you introduce a super with all foundation the gap between the sheets is so wide the bees are tempted to draw out a comb between them. The remedy is simple. If you want good super combs always interleave the foundation with drawn combs, five and five. In this way the gap is narrowed and the bees will behave. This is even more important for good brood combs. Never introduce two sheets of foundation side by side, except, perhaps, in the case of swarms. Sid P. _________________________________________________________________ Sid Pullinger Email : sidpul@aladdin.co.uk 36, Grange Rd Compuserve: 100343.1216@compuserve.com Alresford Hants SO24 9HF England ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 Jun 1996 01:36:55 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Michael L. Wallace" Subject: Re: Amature needs help At 09:10 6/13/96 -0500, you wrote: >---------------------- Information from the mail header ----------------------- >Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology >Poster: STEVE PHILLIPS >Subject: Amature needs help >------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > >This is my second year keeping bees. I have six hives of Buckfast bees. >Two days ago an acquaintance at work told me that her ex-husband >used to keep bees, and when they got divorced 5 years ago he left 4 >hives on her uncle's farm. She said her uncle was afraid of bees and no >one had touched the hives since the divorce. She said that she thought >one hive was still alive, and I could have any or all of the >bees/equipment. > >I live in eastern Kansas and we do have varroa. To my surprise, when I >picked the stuff up one of the hives was still alive. It was in two hive >bodies, with the entrance reduced to 1/2 inch. The hive is very strong-- >packed with bees and honey. It's also about to swarm. It has many >queen cells along the bottom bars. > >What do I do? My guess is that I need to split it somehow, but how? > >Any suggestions would be appreciated. > > -Steve Phillips- > -Perry, KS- > My suggestion is that you do split, but you also need to extract some of their stores. Here's what I would do, I would get another deep ready with empty frames. If you use already pulled foundation, they will build up faster, but if not, that's okay. Split the brood and honey frames evenly, between the two deeps and fill the rest of the spaces out with new frames. You'll need to identify the queen and pull that frame out to deliberately put back into one of the hives. The other hive will obviously need a new queen. Take the rest of the frames with honey and extract them. BTW, for the time being, I wouldn't use the empty equipment that you're getting until it can be cleaned up good. Fix up two medium or shallow supers, with empty frames, to put on top of each colony. By doing this, you'll insure plenty of brood and honey stores for each colony and you'll provide additional space for them to start working on storing some more honey. Hope this helps. Regards, Mike Wallace Bkeeper1@why.net McKinney, Texas USA "If you don't have something good to say, don't say anything at all." ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 Jun 1996 01:47:51 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Michael L. Wallace" Subject: Re: Honey-clogged brood nests - solution? At 10:11 6/13/96 -0400, you wrote: >---------------------- Information from the mail header ----------------------- >Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology >Poster: Tim Peters >Subject: Re: Honey-clogged brood nests - solution? >------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > I experienced Joel's problem last year, except my hives were two > story. We had a mild winter and I was unprepared for a very > fast build-up and a huge spring flow. I followed instructions > that I had read about preparations for a strong flow and placed > queen excluders above the 2nd deep and supers above that. By the > middle of June I had 6 supers of capped honey from 2 hives. > After I put the excluders on I did not venture a look into the > brood chambers. As a moderate summer drought progressed I didn't > see anything that resembled much of a honey flow. I had replaced > the filled supers but was disappointed to see that not that much more > honey was being stored. Then the swarms started. By the end of summer > I had 7-8 swarms from 2 hives. It finally dawned on me about mid-August > to check the brood chambers. I was amazed to find that both hives > had completely filled the 2nd deeps with honey. With strong hives > confined to one deep, swarming must have been the only choice. > Further reading seemed to place some of the blame on the excluders, > so this year I am not using them. > > This year has been completely different. A long hard winter and a > rainy sometimes cold spring maybe makes the difference. Here it > is mid-June and I have yet to have a single super filled. On most > good weather days the bees seem to be foraging at an acceptable pace, > but no surplus as yet. > > QUESTION: > > I put on an additional deep with new foundation on each hive this > spring. Would the action of drawing comb on new foundation actually > slow the rate at which honey is stored? > > >Tim Peters, Kirby VT >tpeters@kingcon.com >KirBee Apiary, Bear Bait Honey >I rather be flying! > The answer to your question is - most definitely. Any nectar gathering is going to have to be used for wax production before any can be stored and made into honey. Obviously, this is a blanket statement. They will store some nectar, but they will be limited on what they can store until they pull the cells out. Mike Wallace Sar Shalom Apiary McKinney, Texas USA "Out of the heart, the mouth speaks." ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 Jun 1996 02:39:22 -0600 Reply-To: allend@internode.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Allen Dick Organization: The Beekeepers Subject: Re: Honey-clogged brood nests - solution? > > I put on an additional deep with new foundation on each > > hive this spring. Would the action of drawing comb on new > > foundation actually slow the rate at which honey is stored? > The answer to your question is - most definitely. Any nectar > gathering is going to have to be used for wax production before any > can be stored and made into honey. Obviously, this is a blanket > statement. They will store some nectar, but they will be limited on > what they can store until they pull the cells out. To add to this: A lot will depend on the flow, the position in the hive of the foundation and the amount of other empty comb available to the bees. Moreover the hive temperature, how well sealed the hive is, and population demographics of the hive will have an effect as well. In *some* cases, drawing a large amount of foundation may have no apparent effect on production. For foundation to be drawn quickly and economically, it must be in a warm, dark place that is occupied by well fed young bees and a logical position for extending the nest. Placing entire supers of new wax on a hive is generally frowned upon, but may work well if the flow is strong and steady, and the population is large and willing. Some hives will draw foundation limitlessly, but others will show much less interest. Placing a few drawn combs or a comb of brood (judiciously) can attract bees to the foundation. Generally a position directly above the brood nest is best. Excluders can (but not necessarily will) discourage bees from foundation. Since we are talking about bees here, we have to keep in mind what Winnie the Pooh said about them. Regards Allen W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper VE6CFK RR#1, Swalwell, Alberta Canada T0M 1Y0 Internet:dicka@cuug.ab.ca & allend@internode.net Honey. Bees, & Art ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 Jun 1996 10:52:42 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jim Moore DTN276-9448 ogo1/e17 508-496-9448 Subject: Q:Hiving a swarm - part II Eariler I described my escapade of catching my first swarm on 6/2/96. Last Sunday a week after installing I could find not eggs or larvae so I moved a frame with larvae and eggs from my strongest hive into the hive. Last night on inspecting the colony I still found no egss and just a few larvae on the frame that I moved. Almost all the larvae is now capped. What I did find is 6 swarm cells (along the bottom) on the frame I moved in! I assume that the queen didn't survive my swarm catching escapade (overheated maybe), or that the bees swarmed again way back on june 3rd or 4th. I suspect they swarmed, it seems that there were alot fewer bees out and about by day 3. Also initially they took alot more syrup than they are now. I thought they were busy drawing comb and collecting nectar when I didn't see as many. The swarm was placed in a hive with foundation only and no uncapped brood. If it swarmed is it possible that 1/3 of the bees stayed behind? What is the correct course of action regarding the swarm cells and hive? I assume the bees are just making a new queen and not preparing to swarm. If so I plan to continue feeding and treat this hive like my package hives. Will they get to far behind waiting for the new queen to get laying and not be strong enough to survive the winter? Would I and the bees be better served to just make up a 4 frame nuc for a standby queen, placing the remaining bees with my weaker hive? I have a double screen and can slap together a four frame quick enough. If so can anyone recommend a course of action? Thanks, I appreciate any advice. As a beginner I feel overwhelmed and in awe of the bees, but also like I may be over-manipulating things a bit. It sure is a great pastime! Jim Moore moore@aiag.enet.dec.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 Jun 1996 09:11:11 PDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Adrian Wenner Subject: Re: Aggressive island bees In regard to increase of aggression when a colony nears death by varroa, Andy Nachbauer wrote: >No I have never heard or experienced this, if anything the weaker the >hives with varroa or without the less aggressive the bees to the point >that the last dozen or so bees fly off into oblivion when opened. > >How did the bees on this isolated island get varroa mite in the first >place? How far from shore is it? These last points were covered in the abstract we published in last December's issue of the AMERICAN BEE JOURNAL (p. 831). If anyone does not have access to that issue and is interested, I can transmit the text by e-mail. Adrian *************************************************************** * Adrian Wenner E-Mail wenner@lifesci.lscf.ucsb.edu * * Dept.Ecol.,Evol.,& Mar.Biol. Office Phone (805) 893-2838 * * University of California Lab Phone (805) 893-2675 * * Santa Barbara, CA 93106 FAX (805) 893-8062 * * * *************************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 Jun 1996 11:10:45 +0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Bill Painter Subject: Re: Aggressive island bees Please send me a copy my e-mail address: billp@billp.cdp.state.ne.us ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 Jun 1996 16:31:26 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: David Eyre Subject: Re: Q: At night lots of Bees at the entrance... Jim Moore wrote > Last night around midnight I went and looked >and the entire entrace was covered with bees, in some >places 2 or 3 deep. I'm assuming it is normal behaviour >for a healthy vigorus hive. > Is it normal, and what is the reason? > I haven't checked the second deep but would >assume there is plenty of comb left to draw. Are these >mostly young bees with to little to do and waiting for >their wax glands to kick in? Or maybe the bees leave >the hive to increase the surface area exposed for >evaporating the nectar? Very few bees were fanning >however. > One last thought, do the young bees need to >dry/cure the bodies? If so is the humidity inside the >hive to high, so they go outside for some dryier air? One of the problems with hives and lots of foundation, the bees have nowhere to cluster, bees don't normally cluster on foundation. A lot of those bees will be field bees, as such it's a bit like 'Mum' "get out from under my feet"!! The house bees kick the field bees out on a warm night, just wait till it gets a bit chilly, then watch how quick they get invited back in!! I would suggest you have a real good look at newlly emerged baby bees on a frame. They are smaller to look at, often greyish in color, and very hairy. that's the ones just emerged, dry, not yet full size,but correct in every detail. No, they don't have to cure!! **************************************************** * David Eyre 9 Progress Drive, Unit 2, * * The Beeworks, Orillia, Ontario, L3V 6H1. * * beeworks@muskoka.net 705-326-7171 * * http://www.muskoka.net/~beeworks * * Agents for: E H Thorne & B J Sherriff UK. * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 Jun 1996 10:55:16 -1000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Walter Patton Subject: Hawaii Queen Breeders Several People have contacted me for Hawaii Queen bee breeders. This posting is unsolisited and done totally on my own and I accept total responsibility if this ad/post is offensive to anyone and as President of the BIG ISLAND BEEKEEPERS ASSOCIATION I am proud to share the names of the queen breeders on the Big Island Hawaii Kona Queen Company P.O.Box 768 Captain Cook, Hi. 96704 808-328-9016 or Fax 328-9460 Big Island Queen P.O.Box 687 Captain Cook, Hi.96704 808-328-9249 Fax 328-9725 Hawaiian Queen Company P.O.Box 652 Captain Cook,Hi.96704 808-328-2656 Fax 328-2656 Please mention this post if contacting one of the above. Aloha Walter Walter & Elisabeth Patton, 27-703 A Ka' ie'ie Rd., Papaikou HI.,96781 Ph./Fax. 808-964-5401 E-Mail hihoney@ilhawaii Beekeeper and Bed & Breakfast Owner in Hawaii http://www.alohamall.com/hamakua/hihoney.htm http://www.alohamall.com/hamakua/beeware.htm http://www.alohamall.com/hamakua/lamalani.htm ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 Jun 1996 16:59:42 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: steven anderson Subject: BEE-L PLEASE REMOVE ME FROM B-L THANK YOU ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 15 Jun 1996 11:27:02 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "David. E. Goble" Subject: Re: low temperature queens > >We have used incubators to house Queen cells in for years. To date we have >not seen any diffrence in the size or weights of our queens due to running >the incubators at lower temperatures (93 F) we often times will lower the >temperature a degree or two to delay emergence of the Queens because of >weather etc.. As the lower temp. retards the development of the queens I do >not understand how it could make the queens any Bigger or Stronger. If >anybody else has any experence in this, I would be glad to hear about it. If >I could get bigger stronger Queens from lowering the Temperature I would do >it all the time. > >Dean Breaux >Hybri-Bees > Hi Dean, Yes there is a period and a temperature that will cause death. However the most important period of a bee larvae is the royal jelly supply, if this is reduced or termenated early the bee will bee undersized or malformed , and have a reduced physical strength. Therefore the most important period to maintain a good regular temperature in a hive or incubator is this period of the feeding of the larvae. Regards, Dr Brian E Goble PhD Ecology Research Centre Thanks from : goble@eastend.com.au http://www.eastend.com.au/~goble degob1@mugc.cc.monash.ed.au ( David Goble ) American Beach Kangaroo Island South Australia ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 15 Jun 1996 02:27:31 GMT Reply-To: johntrn@ldd.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: John Taylor Organization: midwest.net Subject: Re: Preferred Poison In-Reply-To: <199605241427.AA07715@internode.net> >I got some borax laundry additive two weeks ago. I think my wife said >it was less than $5 for five pounds. Well I mixed 1/1 syrup with >about 1/2 part borax. Got a super saturate solution had some on the >bottom. Put some in a small pickle jar about 1/4 full. Put some 16d >nail holes in the lid. Set it on its side at about 30 deg. under the >hive. In a couple of hours it was killing ants. They go in the jar >and never come out. Bees can't get in so it seems to be O.K. Came home to find ants in the basement pantry. Mixed syrup and borax as above, in a plastic 35mm film cannister. Drilled an 1/8" hole in the lid and set it directly in the path of the ants. Later there was a bee-line to the cannister. Much later that day a dwindling line of ants. The next day few ants and now none. This stuff works great. -- John Taylor -- Southeast Missouri When in danger, or in doubt, run in circles, scream and shout! ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 15 Jun 1996 02:35:50 GMT Reply-To: johntrn@ldd.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: John Taylor Organization: midwest.net Subject: Nosema/K Wing/Entrance Bees In-Reply-To: <31BC1745.215F@avana.net> On a stretch of 12 hour days, I went to check my hive at late dusk last night. Found many (20-30) bees that appeared to be smaller than what I'm used to seeing at the hive entrance. They appeared to be holding their wings about 45 degrees abducted from their body line and about 30 degrees superiorly? (up). It appeared that most of them were holding wings still. This made me think of 'K Wing'. Unfortuneately, my beginners book had no pictures of this symptom. It was late dusk and light WAS a little poor . . . 1. Is 'K Wing' a symptom of Nosema? 2. Is it possible that these were new bees unfolding their wings and getting dried out? 3. Is there a possibility that they are just circulating air? I went back this evening, just a little bit earlier than I did last night and there were a similar number of bees at the entrance. There were a few holding wings extended (almost as if in flight position). There were many, almost in straight lines, away from the entrance, one behind the other. Most of these were fanning. -- John Taylor -- Southeast Missouri When in danger, or in doubt, run in circles, scream and shout! ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 15 Jun 1996 07:35:57 +0100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Sid Pullinger Subject: Where do all the almonds go? << crop pollination plus the largest and most active group of commercial and hobby beekeepers and in the spring a large percentage of all the bees on wheels in the United States who take part in one of the great wonders of the agricultural world, the movement of 800,000+- hives of bees to pollinate 400,000+- acres of almond trees.>>> I am curious. If the American acre is the same as the British, this is 625 square miles of trees - and a lot of almonds. Where do they all go? As I see it almonds play a very small part in my diet, on the occasional cake and the icing at Christmas. Can someone enlighten me as there must be a lot of uses I know nothing of. Sid P. _________________________________________________________________ Sid Pullinger Email : sidpul@aladdin.co.uk 36, Grange Rd Compuserve: 100343.1216@compuserve.com Alresford Hants SO24 9HF England ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 15 Jun 1996 07:36:02 +0100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Sid Pullinger Subject: Aggression > Usually all aggression disappears within a day of the death of the queen. I'm uncomfortable about that statement Sid. Do you mean from the death of the queen (which seems to make my bees *less* friendly), or do you mean from introduction of the new queen?>>> I was too brief. I should have said "all aggression usually disappears within a day or so of re-queening with a gentler strain of queen". Over the years beekeepers have noticed how quickly aggression disappears when a bad stock is re-queened. If the fault was in the bees one would expect the aggression to last many weeks, the summer life of the bees. In 1962 a very respected English beekeeper and breeder carried out a series of experiments which I will outline briefly. Full details are in his book, The Honeybees of the British Isles, By Beowulf Cooper. Three queens from aggressive stocks were removed and replaced by three from a docile strain. Within twenty four hours all aggression had disappeared. A queen was removed from an aggressive stock and a queen cell introduced. The virgin hatched three days later and all aggression ceased. Two queens from docile stocks were removed and replaced with queens from aggressive stocks. Within two days these stocks changed from docile to aggressive. An aggressive stock was de-queened and united to a docile one. Within two days all the bees were docile. A queen from an aggressive stock was caged and placed over a docile one. The following day the stock became bad tempered and remained so until the queen was removed. All beekeepers of experience know that an aggressive stock can turn up from time to time in a docile apiary for no apparent reason and the only conclusion is that a cross-mating was responsible. >From the experiments above and others Cooper concluded that much aggression was not genetic to the worker and was due to the make-up of the queen and therefore her pheromones. Sid P. _________________________________________________________________ Sid Pullinger Email : sidpul@aladdin.co.uk 36, Grange Rd Compuserve: 100343.1216@compuserve.com Alresford Hants SO24 9HF England ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 15 Jun 1996 08:15:24 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Joel Govostes Subject: Bait hive success ----------------(Note: Mark Egloff, please e-mail me -- lost your address.) I had a hive (brood ch. from a winter-kill) set up at my in-law's house about 5 mi. from here. I do this every year, and have gotten 1-2 swarms each year at that location. It's a suburban/residential area. This year I was disappointed to see that there never appeared any scout bees at the hive week after week. Normally there would be someone sniffing around. It occurred to me that maybe there were lots of leftover dead bees in there, since there appeared to be lots of ants crawling around the entrance. So I opened it up to check; nope - if there had been, then the ants cleaned them all out. Otherwise the hive was nice and stinky (old wax/propolis, etc.) so should have drawn some attention. The lack of swarms is really evident all over. Three days ago I replaced the b.c. with another one which I had cleaned up a bit (scraped down the frames and rabbets of excess propolis and burr comb). Also, I moved the hive a bit more into the sun, at the edge of a deck adjoining the house, and put a scrap of board over the lid, jutting out to shade the entrance. Well yesterday morning at 8:30 AM i was over there and l actually saw 2-3 bees flying around it! Went into the house to pick up some letters and heed the call of nature. Then on my way out decided to check the hive again. A quarter to nine in the morning a beeautiful good-size swarm was dropping out of the air and covering my hive! It was great to watch them home in on the site and descend, then rush in. I'll be moving them to one of my yards tomorrow. I consider this one a real bonus! ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 16:49:51 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Thomas J. Walker" Subject: Electronic reprints (Try them; =?iso-8859-1?Q?you=92ll?= like =?iso-8859-1?Q?=91em?= ) Electronic reprints are posted on the Internet in portable document format (PDF) to be read or printed by anyone on the Internet. When printed, the "e-reprint" matches the traditional reprint exactly. E-reprints are convenient for both authors and readers, and they cost little to produce. Since 1994, the Florida Entomological Society has posted e-reprints of all articles published in Florida Entomologist (its refereed journal begun in 1917). Because making and mounting the PDF files costs the Society less than $2.50 per page, it has opted not to charge authors for e-reprints but to absorb the cost within current page charges. You can access these e-reprints at http://www.fcla.ufl.edu/FlaEnt/fehmpg.htm and decide for yourself if authors in your societies' journals might like to have the option of having their articles available in this form all the time anywhere on the Internet. At the same site is a hyperlink to a fuller discussion of e-reprints, originally published in the March 1996 issue of BioScience, on p. 171. Thomas J. Walker Department of Entomology & Nematology University of Florida Gainesville, FL 32611-0620 tjw@gnv.ifas.ufl.edu ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 17:12:15 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Multinational Exchange for Sustainable Agriculture Subject: 2 QUERIES FROM INT'L TRAINING EXCHANGE PROGRAM >Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 17:06:18 -0700 >To: BEE-L@uscsc2.albany.edu >From: Multinational Exchange for Sustainable Agriculture >Subject: 2 QUERIES FROM INT'L TRAINING EXCHANGE PROGRAM > > >> >>Hello: >> >>MESA, a non-profit organization that sponsors young international farmers seeking live/work positions with US organic/sustainable host farms, is in need of your help for two of our young exchange farmers from Russia and Lithuania. If anyone can help with either of the following requests we'd appreciate your response: > >1) We're looking for Practical Bee keeping information in Russian, for one of our exchange farmers who is currently training with a California apiary. We've checked IBRA but haven''t found anything in Russian that we could download... >> >2) We're seeking a new intern/work position for one of our participants whose pre-assigned host farm didn't work out. Jurgita is a friendly, hard-working 25 yr. old Lithuanian woman whose first choice and experience is in Beekeeping. Her English is somewhat limited but improving daily. In exchange for room, board and $675 monthly program fees, MESA's exchange farmers work full-time (up to 48hrs/wk) and receive training in organic/sustainable techniques on their host farms. MESA uses the program fees to provide our exchange farmers with $300/month stipends, full health insurance, domestic travel, legal documentation, coordinator visits and administrative assistance. >> >>If your apiary, lab or extension service is interested in finding out more about Jurgita and/or MESA's program, or if you can suggest any leads (especially in the Western US), please respond ASAP. We're hoping to locate a wonderful new host soon! >> >>Thank you. >> >>Lauren E. Augusta, Executive Director >>Multinational Exchange for Sustainable Agriculture (MESA) >>5337 College Ave., Ste. 508 >>Oakland, CA 94618 >>Tel. #510-654-8858 >>email: mesa@hooked.net >> > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 14:30:41 PDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: John Day Subject: aggressive bees, part 2 hi everyone, there's been a lot of discussion about agressive bees lately, but no one has even suggested that they might be africanized. how does one know if your colony has become africanized? and could that be the reason for the recent post's concerns? thanks, (\ John /) {|||8- in -8|||} (/ Santa Cruz \) California ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 Jun 1996 08:26:58 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ted Fischer Subject: Re: Amature needs help REGARDING RE>Amature needs help Steve Phillipswrote: "This is my second year keeping bees. I have six hives of Buckfast bees. Two days ago an acquaintance at work told me that her ex-husband used to keep bees, and when they got divorced 5 years ago he left 4 hives on her uncle's farm. She said her uncle was afraid of bees and no one had touched the hives since the divorce. She said that she thought one hive was still alive, and I could have any or all of the bees/equipment. I live in eastern Kansas and we do have varroa. To my surprise, when I picked the stuff up one of the hives was still alive. It was in two hive bodies, with the entrance reduced to 1/2 inch. The hive is very strong-- packed with bees and honey. It's also about to swarm. It has many queen cells along the bottom bars. What do I do? My guess is that I need to split it somehow, but how? Any suggestions would be appreciated." In addition to the good advice you already received on this post, I think it is significant that the colony survived in the midst of a varroa epidemic. There may be some resistance to the mite in these bees, and you may have a very valuable resource at hand. Following is an announcement that appeared in APIS recently, that may be of interest: "The USDA-ARS Bee Breeding Genetics and Physiology Laboratory is looking for honey bees resistant to Varroa mites. Honey bees that have survived for more than a year without being treated and/or those in abandoned hives are ideal candidates. If you have knowledge of candidate queens, then do yourself and the industry a favor by contacting the Lab, 1157 Ben Hur Rd., Baton Rouge, LA 70820-5502, ph 504/767-9280, FAX 504/766-9212, email: trindere@asrr.arsusda.gov. " Ted Fischer ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 Jun 1996 13:46:00 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: John Gavan <0003378944@mcimail.com> Subject: HELP! Looking for package Bees All, I'm a new beekeeper who had just ordered and assembled a hive. I'm now having difficulty finding any supplier who has package bees available. Can anyone on the Bee-L subscriber list help me get over this last hurdle? I would be extremely greatful for any assistance at this point and you can reach me at the following numbers/address. John Gavan (719)535-1916 work (719)475-7074 home JGAVAN@MCIMAIL.COM Regards, John Gavan ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 15 Jun 1996 16:21:00 GMT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Andy Nachbaur Organization: WILD BEE'S BBS (209) 826-8107 LOS BANOS, CA Subject: Where do all the almonds go? SP>From: Sid Pullinger >Date: Sat, 15 Jun 1996 07:35:57 +0100 >Subject: Where do all the almonds go? SP><< crop pollination plus the largest and most active >group of commercial and hobby beekeepers and in the spring a large >percentage of all the bees on wheels in the United States who take part >in one of the great wonders of the agricultural world, the movement of >800,000+- hives of bees to pollinate 400,000+- acres of almond trees.>>> >I am curious. If the American acre is the same as the British, this is 625 >square miles of trees - and a lot of almonds. Where do they all go? As I >see it almonds play a very small part in my diet, on the occasional cake and >the icing at Christmas. Can someone enlighten me as there must be a lot of >uses I know nothing of. Hi Sid, The Rest of the Story. I don't know the size of an acre in England but here it is the standard unit of measurement for farm land and will support about 60+- almond tress which are irrigated and require about 3 feet of water per year to produce a crop more of less. If the bee and almond story in California is one of the agricultural worlds wonders, the second wonder has to be the almonds grown in the Mediterranean acre which in total acres exceeds that of what we have in California.. The wonder here is not the size of the planting which have been increasing each year, but the fact that organized pollination and honeybees play little or NO part in the crop produced there? The production is low compared to what is produced in California per acre but then for the most part these trees are grown with no supplemental irrigation. Fifty years ago most of the almonds in California were also grown without the benefit of irrigation and more almonds were grown in the costal areas then the interior valley and bees were not sought out for pollination and no one would dream of paying beekeepers for almond pollination. Production per acre was also low compared to today. Now the almonds are grown the full length of the interior valley from Bakersfield to Redding. If all the beehives used to pollinated this crop were set out single file they would form a white line from Bakersfield to Sacramento and beyond, maybe 300 miles depending on how close you put them together. The California almond crop is unique in the part the world market plays in marketing the crop. About half or more of the crop is exported and the price the growers receives is dependent on the world price. For many years the world price has been good encouraging more planting. Unlike the sometimes world price for US honey which more times then not in the past was a market we used for what was surplus of our own needs and we usually received a lower price then the domestic price for the same honey. But we all know that has changed, besides being contradictory to international trade agreements, here in the US and we now must import honey to supply the domestic market and depending on the year that may bee 20 to 50% of our total consumption of honey, much of this goes into the industrial market, but an increasing amount of the higher grades is now sought after for table use. Almonds are prepared for market in many natural forms, maybe a 100 or more. much of the export market is sold in a form to be used in the industrial baking market by being graded for size, small size is used in candy bars. Slivered, ground, sliced, all for used in baking, and just fancy bleached whole almonds for cracking and eating by the consumer. ttul, the OLd Drone (c) Permission is granted to freely copy this document in any form, or to print for any use. (w)Opinions are not necessarily facts. Use at own risk. --- ~ QMPro 1.53 ~ ... Nor will a bee buzz round two swelling peaches, ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 15 Jun 1996 20:33:26 GMT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Franklin D. Humphrey Sr." Subject: Re: Where do all the almonds go? At 06:35 AM 6/15/96 +0000, you wrote: ><< crop pollination plus the largest and most active >group of commercial and hobby beekeepers and in the spring a large >percentage of all the bees on wheels in the United States who take part >in one of the great wonders of the agricultural world, the movement of >800,000+- hives of bees to pollinate 400,000+- acres of almond trees.>>> >I am curious. If the American acre is the same as the British, this is 625 >square miles of trees - and a lot of almonds. Where do they all go? As I >see it almonds play a very small part in my diet, on the occasional cake and >the icing at Christmas. Can someone enlighten me as there must be a lot of >uses I know nothing of. > > Sid P. >_________________________________________________________________ >Sid Pullinger Email : sidpul@aladdin.co.uk >36, Grange Rd Compuserve: 100343.1216@compuserve.com >Alresford >Hants SO24 9HF >England > Hi Sid Measurments can fool you. There are 43,000 square feet in 1 acre. There ar 640 acres in 1 square mile. Frank Humphrey beekeeper@worldnet.att.net ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 15 Jun 1996 18:30:02 +0000 Reply-To: jdalexa@his.com Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: John Alexander Subject: Help - Need bees Greetings everyone, I'm just getting into beekeeping and am looking for bees. There seems to be a major shortage of them around the states right now. Does anyone have nukes or know where I can get one to get started? help!! John Alexander mailto:jdalexa@his.com Beltsville, MD ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 15 Jun 1996 20:20:27 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Dave from Scranton Subject: Re: Hey,they FINALLY noticed... In-Reply-To: That same story ran in our local paper a month and a half ago right on the FRONT page, they even had a sidebar with quotes from a local beekeeper. Thank God for slow news days!! ****************************************************************************** Dave D. Cawley, Maitre d' | ***ALERT shameless plug ALERT*** The Internet Cafe | Scranton, Pennsylvania | ASK ME FOR A COPY OF WEBPHONE!!! (717) 344-1969 | (or try www.scranton.com/webphone) ddc1@lydian.scranton.com | ****************************************************************************** URL => http://www.scranton.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 15 Jun 1996 22:25:00 GMT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Andy Nachbaur Organization: WILD BEE'S BBS (209) 826-8107 LOS BANOS, CA Subject: aggressive bees, part 2 JD>From: John Day >Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 14:30:41 PDT >Subject: aggressive bees, part 2 JD>there's been a lot of discussion about agressive bees lately, but no one >has even suggested that they might be africanized. how does one know if >your colony has become africanized? and could that be the reason for the >recent post's concerns? Hello John, Most beekeepers can NOT tell the difference between Afrikaner bees and other honeybees without much experience and a good imagination, some bee scientists are not blessed with such bias and have adapted some testing mythology to honeybees they claim are sensitive to the detection of African bees. You can turn a sample of your bees over to your local friendly county agriculture commissioner and have them tested. I would not do this and identify them as my own, but maybe wild bees or some neighbor beekeeper who is crowding my pasture as they may want to come out and kill all your bees just to bee safe. The cost for this test could be about $150.+- per sample if you go the OJ route and have a DNA work up done on the bees. Other then that there is a fast test that uses the same methods first developed during WW II to tell the good people from the bad people who were then gassed in Germany, some were tested after being gassed or not tested at all. For people it used measurements of the skull, but for bees it uses different measurements of the fore wing and wax plates as I understand it. IMHO it is not reliable and when several thousand hives were repeatedly tested in Kern County, the more each hive was tested the grater the odd's it would turn up positive and some hives did turn up positive on the third tests that were negative on the first two tests just weeks apart. It is interesting that the source of the queens in some of these hives were from northern "California's Best", (a way to not name the bee breeder family who's Italian bees they were from.) Testing was stopped soon afterwards and the Kern County quarantine was abandoned, not because more so called "killer" bees were not being identified by the tests, but because the test failed to be accurate enough to avoid civil liability in the courts if all the hives were destroyed to end the quarantine based on the test results. Also additional information was provided that showed bees from one end of the state to the other had also failed the tests, or better stated, measured up to the tests. The facts are that the USDA in setting up areas to test have found that no matter where they set up they soon found the so called "killer" bees, and because of this and the high cost of DNA tests they are not doing much testing and now work on the idea that once 4 hives have been found to be positive the whole area is considered as being positive. And in any case have set a date that the tests they are using will be not long be used, again because of dubious doubts the tests could survive any judicial challenge. California reached the 4 hive plato quite awhile ago and is now considered infested or invaded with "killer" bees, to such an extent that the Los Angeles Police Department is at this time giving "killer" bee training to their police officers who will be getting the frantic 911 calls from the worried public. The training basically is one of making hasty retreat away from any bees using by what is called in their business as "leg bail". At the same time local agricultural authorities in the areas that have the "killer" bees now say the "killer" bees found in California must have came in on the train because they say they have found them adjacent to rail road tracks, but they have not explained why they only got off at the spots where the bees have been detected and did not travel to the end of the line, or maybe they did? The truth of this whole sad episode in our beekeeping history is that bees with African genes have been in California for more then 80 years because of legal direct importation from Africa under the hands on supervision by a early day USDA bee scientist who selected the stock, made increase, and shipped the bees to the US where he returned to test them more, (no record of any of these stocks being destroyed or not having produced swarms and drones can be found), in fact the African bees were not found to be any more aggressive then the worst American stock at the time, and the bees that were the most aggressive were from the Greek Islands and were for many years increased by some of the best bee breeders of the time in the Modesto Area and were famous for their big beautiful queens. I first saw these bees as a child in the 40's when I attended the state fair which had dozens of glass bee hives with all the different standards of bees being reared at the time. Way before the infamous university scientist at Davis made a few bucks in the movie business. The Afro bees found in both feral and hive bees from northern to southern California and were never reported as being aggressive or a problem of any kind in the first and last surveys. In the areas of the US that all bees have been know to be aggressive regardless of genetic history, such as the thorn bush regions of the southwest, any beekeeper who does not live in these areas would be easy to convince that he had seen the devil in the bees the first time he opened a hive. I was on my first experience and I am a self taught skeptic, and only after trucking bees, queens, and hives from California that I had worked down without a veil into these areas was I myself convinced that it was the area and not the bees. But good gracious they can make the honey in these areas when conditions are ripe for it and in areas that no bee man would want to brake down traveling trough for fear of dieing of hunger and thirst before someone would come by to help. Maybe once or twice in a generation comes the bloom known in northern Mexican something like as the "Yellow Eye" of God, an experience in honey production one never forgets if he does not burn out forever on honey taking and extracting honey up to Christmas. The few beekeepers who know or will admit they have the TEX-MEX or "killer" bees in their hives are not reporting any thing out of the ordinary, though some say they are more aggressive at times, and not at other times. These bees also do NOT show any of the super bee qualities that we would all like to have, that is they do not have a survival rate any higher then what we are now experiencing as normal. Some do report that they are more prolific, produce more brood, honey, and require more work to keep from swarming. They also are reported to appear to fly faster as they "dart" in and out of the hive. And some beekeepers do use more smoke and protection from stings. I suspect that some of these reports are not based on more then suggestion from what other's have reported. In any case bees in California can have very high indicators that they are Afro in background, and can have the genetic map of the pure thing. Should you worry about it?, I would not, as if your bees do kill someone because they have bad genes..you are the first one who will feel the barbs of their attacks and if they do not kill you and only kill your neighbors you will be in the position of wishing they had killed you anyway and I would suspect not be keeping bees soon after the 2nd family in your neighborhood is killed by your bees. More then a few hives come to California each winter for the spring almond bloom and some stay around some until July, thousands of these hives have originated in areas of Texas and Arizona that are know to be infested with the TEX-MEX bee and these hives are the 1st cross if not some of them being pure-o TEX-MEX. There has been nothing to keep drones from these hives drifting into our local hives and feral bee hives so you can expect that California has the so called bad genes and any other state that receives bees from California after the almond bloom and that just about covers the map of beekeeping pasture in the US. It is just a question of time before some one is killed by bees with bad genes in California as a small percentage of the population of the US is killed each year from honeybee stings, maybe 12 to 20+- per year. The only difference between the past and the future will be the bad genes and not the numbers of people killed. This is the fact according to the world health people who keep the morbid stats on deaths from bee stings around the world and have not reported any increase because of bad genes. It is also a fact that it matters not the quality of the genes of the bee that kills, when it does that dirty deed it is indeed a "killer" bee at least to the dead victims. ttul, the OLd Drone (c) Permission is granted to freely copy this document in any form, or to print for any use. (w)Opinions are not necessarily facts. Use at own risk. --- ~ QMPro 1.53 ~ ik ben een imker in Holland ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 15 Jun 1996 20:54:03 -1000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Walter Patton Subject: Pollen trap wire Aloha folks of bee-l Could someone please help me find a source of the proper size and type of hardware cloth that is needed to make pollen traps . I think the size I am looking for is 3/16 of one inch. Please advise and many thanks . Walter in Hawaii Walter & Elisabeth Patton, 27-703 A Ka' ie'ie Rd., Papaikou HI.,96781 Ph./Fax. 808-964-5401 E-Mail hihoney@ilhawaii Beekeeper and Bed & Breakfast Owner in Hawaii http://www.alohamall.com/hamakua/hihoney.htm http://www.alohamall.com/hamakua/beeware.htm http://www.alohamall.com/hamakua/lamalani.htm -- End --