Date sent: Sat, 2 Nov 1996 00:14:56 -0500 From: "L-Soft list server at ALBNYVM1 (1.8b)" Subject: File: "BEE-L LOG9606C" To: W Allen Dick Date: Sun, 16 Jun 1996 20:00:36 GMT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Franklin D. Humphrey Sr." Subject: Re: Super combs At 05:27 AM 6/14/96 +0000, you wrote: ><successfully, but we are having a problem with the workers bridging between >the top bars and hanging a comb from it between the frames. >>> >When you introduce a super with all foundation the gap between the sheets >is so wide the bees are tempted to draw out a comb between them. The remedy >is simple. If you want good super combs always interleave the foundation >with drawn combs, five and five. In this way the gap is narrowed and the >bees will behave. This is even more important for good brood combs. Never >introduce two sheets of foundation side by side, except, perhaps, in the >case of swarms. Sid P. >_________________________________________________________________ >Sid Pullinger Email : sidpul@aladdin.co.uk >36, Grange Rd Compuserve: 100343.1216@compuserve.com >Alresford >Hants SO24 9HF >England > This assumes that you have drawn comb to intersperse with your foundation. I put on complete supers of foundation all the time. Sometimes for chunk honey and sometimes to get new comb drawn. When I put on foundation, I put in 9 frames if I'm going to extract it and 10 if I am making chunk honey. I hardly ever have a problem as long as the foundation is straight. I have seen some bridging but it is just that. They don't put honey in it if there is room to put it somewhere else. They will occasionally put nectar in it temporarily and move it as new comb becomes available. If you make sure that the foundation is straight and the bees don't draw it evenly, the hot knife fixes that the first time the comb is extracted. Frank Humphrey beekeeper@worldnet.att.net ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 16 Jun 1996 21:37:46 GMT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: G C Allison Subject: Re: British beekeepers/varroa In-Reply-To: <199606130924.KAA26549@typhoon.dial.pipex.net> Steve Pearce wrote: > When enquiring about my worries about Varroa introduction into my so = far >"clean" area, I was told there was no risk. Is this correct, or should = I be stirring >up a "hornets nest" about this. > I bought a postal queen from a Scottish supplier in 1993 and was surpris= ed to find a York postmark on the packet, in those days Varroa was well south = of York - I heard recently that it has reached Kendal! The theory on sending queens from within the SIA is that they are treated= with Apistan or Bayvarol before postage and this prevents any live mites being= transmitted. I would prefer not to take the risk on mites, and what abou= t viruses that are supposed to follow Varroa attacks, they are not affected by acar= icides? I see that there is a supplier advertising Queens in Newcastleton in last= month's Scottish Beekeeper, that is North of the Statutory Infected Area, perhaps= he can solve your problem. Geoff Allison Dalbeattie, Scotland ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 16 Jun 1996 20:08:42 GMT Reply-To: johntrn@ldd.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: John Taylor Organization: midwest.net Subject: Feeding Syrup/Pollen & Supers My package of bees is growing very nicely. Have added a second hive body and moved some of the honey/pollen frames from the outsides of #1 to the middle of #2. Sounds as if I may want to intersperse foundation >between< drawn frames, from what I've been reading these last couple of days. I'm going out there in another hour or two, so will probably do that then. I've been seeing lots of burr comb, some of it between the top bars, some of it in the middle of comb they are working . . . Next question about my new bees . . . How long do I feed the syrup mixture? My book said, "Purchase at least 100 pounds of sugar for each package that you have ordered and a day or two before you expect them mix up a quantity of syrup using approximately 20 pounds of granulated sugar to 1 gallon of warm water." I purchased 40 pounds to get started and have just about fed the first 20 pounds of that. 100 pounds at this rate seems as if it will last me into the Fall! It seems that I probabl ought to keep feeding them as long as I'm giving them all of this foundation to work . . . how about when I put the supers on? There is the expected collection of syrup/nectar and pollen in the frames that are worked. What prevents the bees from taking pollen up into a super? Thanks again to all. You're helping make this an enjoyable new hobby! -- John Taylor -- Southeast Missouri When in danger, or in doubt, run in circles, scream and shout! ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 16 Jun 1996 13:46:56 -1000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Walter Patton Subject: Pollen trap wire Can anyone tell me how to contact the nectar collecter in Maryland or an Amish beekeeper with some stainless steel trap equipment? Thanks for the help so far on this request. Walter Walter & Elisabeth Patton, 27-703 A Ka' ie'ie Rd., Papaikou HI.,96781 Ph./Fax. 808-964-5401 E-Mail hihoney@ilhawaii Beekeeper and Bed & Breakfast Owner in Hawaii http://www.alohamall.com/hamakua/hihoney.htm http://www.alohamall.com/hamakua/beeware.htm http://www.alohamall.com/hamakua/lamalani.htm ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 Jun 1996 06:29:33 +0100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Sid Pullinger Subject: Almonds My thanks to Andy Nachbaur for his very long reply and to Frank Humphrey for his very short one. As regards the latter, we also have 640 acres to the square mile so it would appear that our measurements coincide. Now why should measurements fool me? 600,000 acres divided by 640 gives my figure of 625 square miles and that, I repeat, represents a lot of almonds. If they require 800,000 hives for pollination that bill alone must run into many million dollars. A huge industry. Surely they do not all go into cakes and candy bars. Regards Sid P. _________________________________________________________________ Sid Pullinger Email : sidpul@aladdin.co.uk 36, Grange Rd Compuserve: 100343.1216@compuserve.com Alresford Hants SO24 9HF England ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 Jun 1996 08:55:48 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Mark D. Egloff" Subject: Too many bees??? Comments: To: ohbee-l@sun1.oardc.ohio-state.edu Well, this will seem to be a strange request, given the current depleted status of the honeybee population in the US, BUT, I set up a two queen hive for the first time this spring and I now have more bees in that one hive than I know what to do with. I will be pulling honey supers off of the hive in about another two weeks, but then I have a problem -- How do I get rid of the extra and then unneeded bees? These bees will be the older foragers, possibly (although not tested) with the larger risk of mite infection, etc. The colony is super vigorous. (BTW, it is great to see one this strong. I didn't know what a REAL hive of bees was until this one.) I don't want to damage it or hurt it in any way, but I would like to filter out the excess foragers and quietly get rid of thiem or find some other use for them. Any ideas on how to proceed?? Mark Egloff Dayton, Ohio, USA ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 Jun 1996 09:26:52 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Michael L. Wallace" Subject: Re: Too many bees??? At 08:55 6/17/96 EST, you wrote: >---------------------- Information from the mail header ----------------------- >Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Poster: >"Mark D. Egloff" Subject: Too many bees??? >------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Well, this will seem to be a strange request, given the current > depleted status of the honeybee population in the US, BUT, I > set up a two queen hive for the first time this spring and I > now have more bees in that one hive than I know what to do > with. I will be pulling honey supers off of the hive in about > another two weeks, but then I have a problem -- > > How do I get rid of the extra and then unneeded bees? These > bees will be the older foragers, possibly (although not tested) > with the larger risk of mite infection, etc. > > The colony is super vigorous. (BTW, it is great to see one this > strong. I didn't know what a REAL hive of bees was until this > one.) I don't want to damage it or hurt it in any way, but I > would like to filter out the excess foragers and quietly get > rid of thiem or find some other use for them. Any ideas on how > to proceed?? > > Mark Egloff > Dayton, Ohio, USA > A couple suggestions: Find another, maybe larger, beekeeper who might set up a trade system with you. You trade him, 1 for 1, a frame of bees for an empty frame. I,personally, know of a beekeeper, near me, who is willing to do this. The other suggestion is to make up a package or nuc of bees and offer them for sell to someone wanting to start a new colony. If you're going to do this, however, you need to do it soon as we are getting late in the season for someone to try to start a new colony. Regards, Mike Wallace Sar Shalom Apiary McKinney, Texas USA "Out of the heart, the mouth speaks." ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 Jun 1996 16:24:00 BST-1 Reply-To: sfleming@cix.compulink.co.uk Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Stephen Fleming Subject: Swarming into oblivion? In-Reply-To: <9605178350.AA835027220@cscuuxch.dayton.csc.com> This is my third season beekeeping and I haven't had too much experience of swarming until this year. Following a long winter and a cold spring all four hives have tried to swarm - fine - I wanted to expand anyway. But colonies from one queen seem determined to swarm themselves out of existence. I would greatly appreciate any advice ...... In one apiary where there was a single hive, I made a split in early May when Queen cells appeared. (The Queen was from a reputable breeder and the hives were large with a mix of stores, drawn comb and foundation.) The virgin took a long time to mate and when she eventually did, a cluster of Queen cells were produced and she departed as soon as the first one was sealed. I await the mating of the second Queen - though curiously two larvae are currently occupying Queen cells and no other eggs or larvae are visible. In the hive with the original Queen, she swarmed when I wasn't looking and - surprise surprise - her daughter laid a few eggs and within a week Queen cells were produced and she duly departed. Both colonies are now low on bees and I await the despatch of new Queens I have ordered. But will I be safe in introducing a Queen to these bees? Who is leading the swarming impulse here? The new Queens or the bees? And if I didn't have new Queens coming, how could I stop these colonies swarming themselves into oblivion? Thanks for any help. Stephen Fleming Kingsclere, Hampshire, UK sfleming@cix.compulink.co.uk ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 Jun 1996 11:23:16 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Mark D. Egloff" Subject: DRONE Layer?! Comments: To: ohbee-l@sun1.oardc.ohio-state.edu Gentlepeople: When I inspected a hive this past weekend I found it weak, with little or not foraging activity. Inside I found little worker brood but an entire frame of solid drone brood. It is obvious that the queen is a drone layer and needs to be replaced. A replacement is on order and will arrive this week. This is my first experience with replacing a drone layer. How should I proceed? Should I remove the "old" queen several days before I install the new one? Should I add a frame or two of worker brood at the time of installation? Help?! Mark Egloff Dayton, Ohio ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 Jun 1996 11:02:01 -0500 Reply-To: bbirkey@interaccess.com Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Barry Birkey Organization: Birkey Construction Subject: New Virus I recieved this notice today from a good source and am sharing it with this group. How can anyone be totally sure if it is real or not. I would rather be safe myself. For what it's worth, this is it. This is for the PC users. Information on Virus 2 Subject: New and Dangerous Viruspp For your information ... DO NOT DOWNLOAD ANY FILE NAMED PKZIP300 REGARDLESS OF THE EXTENSION WARNING!!!!! Read the following and take note for those of you who access the web and ftp sites. . . BEWARE.... Notify your friends and family and total strangers too!!! We don't want to deal with anything like this what-so-ever!!! A NEW Trojan Horse Virus has emerged on the internet with the name PKZIP300.ZIP, so named as to give the impression that this file is a new version of the PKZIP software used to "ZIP" (compress) files. DO NOT DOWNLOAD this file under any circumstances!!! If you install or expand this file, the virus WILL wipe your hard disk clean and affect modems at 14.4 and higher. This is an extremely destructive virus and there is NOT yet a way of cleaning up this one. REPEAT: DO NOT DOWNLOAD ANY FILE NAMED PKZIP300 REGARDLESS OF THE EXTENSION -Barry -- Barry Birkey West Chicago, Illinois USA bbirkey@interaccess.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 Jun 1996 11:13:57 -0500 Reply-To: bbirkey@interaccess.com Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Barry Birkey Organization: Birkey Construction Subject: Beehive plans This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------33AC19951F59 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To all who have requested plans for building a beehive - I finally have my web site up and running, barely. I have working drawings to construct a Langstroth hive and illustrations for making the box joints. There will be more to come. http://www.birkey.com/WWW/BLB/Home/BBP.html Let me know if you have any problem connecting to the page. -Barry -- Barry Birkey West Chicago, Illinois USA bbirkey@interaccess.com --------------33AC19951F59 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline; filename="BBP.html" Barry's Bee Page


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--------------33AC19951F59-- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 Jun 1996 12:24:10 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ted Fischer Subject: Re: Feeding Syrup/Pollen REGARDING RE>Feeding Syrup/Pollen John Taylor wrote: "How long do I feed the syrup mixture? My book said, "Purchase at least 100 pounds of sugar for each package that you have ordered and a day or two before you expect them mix up a quantity of syrup using approximately 20 pounds of granulated sugar to 1 gallon of warm water." I purchased 40 pounds to get started and have just about fed the first 20 pounds of that. 100 pounds at this rate seems as if it will last me into the Fall! It seems that I probably ought to keep feeding them as long as I'm giving them all of this foundation to work . . . how about when I put the supers on? There is the expected collection of syrup/nectar and pollen in the frames that are worked. What prevents the bees from taking pollen up into a super?" What book are you reading? I agree with your experience, that a new package would never eat up 100 lbs of sugar just getting started. Now, part of the difference may be in our two locations, but of the 55 packages I started the last week of April this year, the *most* any package took was about 1 quart of syrup. Except for making up ant bait with part of the rest, I had to throw it all away (I put a gallon on each package hive). Of course, another major difference is that I had old dead hives with plenty of stores to get them started on, with no foundation at all for them to draw. But I still find it hard to believe that anyone is recommending 100 lbs of sugar to get a package started! I wouldn't give them sugar after putting on the supers. You want natural nectar honey in your supers, not sugar water honey. Sure, the bees will take up some pollen into the supers, usually only the one just above the brood nest. I find that this is discouraged quite a bit if I use queen excluders (plus I don't get *any* brood in the supers, which I find disgusting to try to extract around). If you have pollen in your extracting frames, it is especially important to balance them well when loading the extractor, but otherwise it is really no problem. Ted Fischer ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 Jun 1996 18:56:25 BST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Malcolm Roe Subject: Plants for bees. Every now and then someone on the list asks for suggestions for things to plant that will be attractive to bees. In general my view is that, unless you are prepared to plant on a semi-agricultural scale (or put in trees), it isn't worth while to plant specially because it's rare for many bees to be recruited to a small source, even it it is potentially high quality forage. However, the following observation might be of interest. Just outside my back door at home there is a single sage plant (Salvia sylvestris) which is presently in flower. It's only about 1m in extent but over the weekend it was astonishingly attractive to all sorts of nectar gathering insects. There was one time when I observed simultaneously not only honey bees but also a number of examples of two species of solitary bees, three species of bumble bees, butterflies and even a couple of moths. I should think at least 50 insects of one species or another. (Even once the evening came and the bees went home, the night shift - moths - took over force. There must have been 20 or 30 on the plant at the same time.) I can't say whether sage would be a good choice elsewhere but where I live (SW England) it would seem to be a good candidate for a bee plant. -- Malcolm Roe mdr@hplb.hpl.hp.com Hewlett-Packard Laboratories Bristol Filton Road, Stoke Gifford, Bristol, BS12 6QZ, UK Tel: +44 117 922 9331 Fax: +44 117 922 8128 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 Jun 1996 14:20:31 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Baubo Subject: MITE INFESTATION???? I'm certain that many of you are aware that there is a major mite infestation of bees, and have probably discussed it here ad nauseum. I would like to do an article about it for a magazine I'm affiliated with. Does anyone have information on it? (I'm brand new to this list so wouldn't know). I say a segment on the news about it last night and it had me concerned enough to join this list. I did a websearch but may not be looking in the right place. This is affecting all populations both wild and domesticated, yes? And what do we do? In Her Erotic Service! Psyche ----------------------------- "Eros is best served by erotica when it is free. Eros is best served when erotica is made art. Eros is best served when erotica arouses and outrages, when it transcends culture." Madame T.'s quote as written by Terrence McKennas on http://www.levity.com/eschaton/hypersextext3.html, the "Web of Eros" @Wear a blue ribbon today to show your solidarity for freedom of @speech on the Internet! ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 Jun 1996 22:45:07 GMT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Franklin D. Humphrey Sr." Subject: Re: Too many bees??? At 01:55 PM 6/17/96 +0000, you wrote: > Well, this will seem to be a strange request, given the current > depleted status of the honeybee population in the US, BUT, I > set up a two queen hive for the first time this spring and I > now have more bees in that one hive than I know what to do > with. I will be pulling honey supers off of the hive in about > another two weeks, but then I have a problem -- > > How do I get rid of the extra and then unneeded bees? These > bees will be the older foragers, possibly (although not tested) > with the larger risk of mite infection, etc. > > The colony is super vigorous. (BTW, it is great to see one this > strong. I didn't know what a REAL hive of bees was until this > one.) I don't want to damage it or hurt it in any way, but I > would like to filter out the excess foragers and quietly get > rid of thiem or find some other use for them. Any ideas on how > to proceed?? > > Mark Egloff > Dayton, Ohio, USA > Hi Mark I don't remember which book it was but the author reccomended moving the bees during the day after the honey flow. Most of the forager bees are ot and will be left behind along with their mites. Also this would be a good time to requeen since you only have young bees in the hive. I haven't tried this so I don't know how effective it is for mite comtrol. Frank Humphrey Beekeeper@worldnet.att.net Frank Humphrey beekeeper@worldmet.att.net ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 Jun 1996 22:45:09 GMT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Franklin D. Humphrey Sr." Subject: Re: DRONE Layer?! At 04:23 PM 6/17/96 +0000, you wrote: > Gentlepeople: > When I inspected a hive this past weekend I found it weak, with > little or not foraging activity. Inside I found little worker > brood but an entire frame of solid drone brood. It is obvious > that the queen is a drone layer and needs to be replaced. A > replacement is on order and will arrive this week. > > This is my first experience with replacing a drone layer. How > should I proceed? > > Should I remove the "old" queen several days before I install > the new one? Should I add a frame or two of worker brood at > the time of installation? > > Help?! > > Mark Egloff > Dayton, Ohio > Hi Mark Requeening a dronelaying hive is no different than requeening any other time. There are a number of good ways to requeen. I would normaly recomend the nuc method this time of year because requeenine in summer can be a problem. In this case you need to get the remaining bees back to work ASAP. So here is how I would do it: 1. Find and remove the old queen. 2. Close the hive for 8-9 hours. 3. Put the new queen on top of the top bars screen side down and centered over an opening between bars. Do not remove the plug from either end. Some breeders ship queens with candy end open. In this case, tape a small piece of cardboard over the opening. If available put in a frame of eggs and unsealed brood at the same time. 4. Close the hive for 3-4 days then check the queen. If the bees are ready to accept her, they will be feeding her through the screen and will in general be acting normal toward her. At this point you cant release her directly into the hive or you can remove the plug on the candy end. There won't be much candy left so she will probably be released in a few hours. If they are biting the wire and acting aggressive toward her, close the hive and wait about two more days to recheck. They should be ready to accept her at this point. If so release her into the hive and close it for about a week. When the old queen is removed the bees will realize that they are queenless after a few hours. This makes them more receptive to a new queen. Once she is in the hive and they realize they have a laying queen, they should start back to work. Some of the bees will never go back to work and will eventualy be ejected by the house bees. This method is by no means foolproof. None are. This happens to be one that I'v had success with in the past. However I have had bees that just would not accept a new queen. Those you just combine with another hive and write them off. Frank Humphrey Beekeeper@worldnet.att.net Frank Humphrey beekeeper@worldmet.att.net ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 Jun 1996 17:10:50 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: John Caldeira Subject: Permadent and Plasticell Is Mann Lake's Permadent foundation essentially the same thing as Dadant's Plasticell? From Mann Lake's description, Permadent appears similar but is sold at a significantly lower cost ($0.72 vs. $0.94 for Plasticell, lots of 1000). Any experience/comparison info is appreciated! Thanks, John in Dallas ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 Jun 1996 17:11:43 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: John Caldeira Subject: Replacing Old Brood Combs Can someone kindly point me to scientific evidence that replacing old brood combs actually benefits the health and/or honey production of a colony? I've read speculation/hearsay on this, but would actually like to read the scientific basis. Thanks, John in Dallas ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 Jun 1996 17:13:50 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: John Caldeira Subject: Yield per Super On average, how much honey is extracted from one medium depth super? Per shallow super? I'm looking for a practical factor that I can use to estimate my production. Also, is there a significant difference in yield using eight frames instead of nine? Thanks, John in Dallas ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Jun 1996 00:29:00 GMT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Andy Nachbaur Organization: WILD BEE'S BBS (209) 826-8107 LOS BANOS, CA Subject: Almonds SP>From: Sid Pullinger >Date: Mon, 17 Jun 1996 06:29:33 +0100 >Subject: Almonds SP>My thanks to Andy Nachbaur for his very long reply and to Frank Humphrey for >his very short one. As regards the latter, we also have 640 acres to the >square mile so it would appear that our measurements coincide. Now why >should measurements fool me? 600,000 acres divided by 640 gives my figure >of 625 square miles and that, I repeat, represents a lot of almonds. If >they require 800,000 hives for pollination that bill alone must run into >many million dollars. A huge industry. Surely they do not all go into >cakes and candy bars. Hi Sid, The highest price is paid for the smallest almonds, because they can be used in candy bars whole. Hershey Chocolate Company uses so many almonds in their candy that they actually built a factory in the heart of the almonds because the savings in freight alone would pay for the multi million dollar factory over the years. In 1996 it is estimated that the beekeepers who supplied the bees for almond pollination received an average of $32.00 dollars for each hive provided for the almond bloom, that would add up to more then $25 million dollars cash flow to the beekeepers, which they spent for sugar, fuel, and in replacing bees for next years bloom. Only a few beekeepers could support themselves off the almond bloom alone, and sadly most others need the cash flow from the almonds to start the season in hopes of that big honey crop later on. About half the almonds produced are processed by one grower CO-OP called the Almond Growers Exchange. They at one time in the early days handled honey for beekeepers but failed in that effort and lost a lot of money for the beekeepers. A few years ago they also had to be stopped from selling one product they called "Almond Honnies" that listed artificial honey (sugar) in the ingredient statement, but contained NO (O%) honey, they do use a few drums of honey annually in a almond candy they manufacture for the Christmas trade and for their own retail stores. In total little honey is used in almond products in favor of cheep sugar and corn products. This is one area that the beekeepers could significantly increase the consumption of honey if the right pressure was applied like in the deal you can't turn down. "USE MY HONEY, or get NO BEES!" The almonds are shook from the trees when dry in the fall or late summer. They then are picked up and taken to a almond hulling plant that removes the dry outer hull (not shell). The hull is used for cattle feed if not too contaminated with farm chemicals. The nuts then can be dried if needed, and sent on for further processing which includes the removing of the wood shell. They shell is also used for fuel and products that are burned like BBQ briquets. The almonds are then graded and start the long manufacturing process which is mostly grading, sorting, and then slicing, dicing, blanching, grinding, packaging, and for a few hard shell almonds, bleaching the shells for those nice white shelled holiday almonds sold in the shell. The grower is paid for the weight of the meat of the nuts, size, quality, and how much damage has been done to the nut in handling to get it to the stage that it can be graded. Damage can include everything from the natural splitting of the nuts to insect damage. Nuts are also sold according to the verities, the ones that produce the smaller nuts are worth more. In total it is a billion dollar industry with the potential to return a billion dollars to the growers which it has yet to do, but $700,000,000. is nothing to turn up one's noise at and will buy a lot of farm chemicals and fuel oil. As for the value of the almond bloom to the bees themselves. Because it is one of the early blooming plants in California, and for many beekeepers today the only early spring pasture they know, it is of course considered a good early spring build up food for bees. The truth is that until the almond growers started paying beekeepers to move into the almonds most beekeepers who lived adjacent to them would not go out of their way to place bees near any almond orchard. They had learned from experience that the almond bloom was pretty but not the ideal pasture for honeybees. Early day beekeepers who lived in the almond orchards would say its value was in the fact they they could do their first bee inspection during the almond bloom and little else. Bees will find a better build up in California from boarder to boarder a month earlier or a month later from many different spring wild flowers and are not bound to the almond trees for spring build up. In fact in the later years it was determined that almond pollen or nectar actually contains a natural sugar that will retard brood development because it is actually toxic to bees. This is the principal reason almond pollen piles up in the brood chamber during the almond bloom, (a sure sign to beekeepers it is a good pollen source, but actually it is not, and only because it is the only source is it considered good at all.) Almond pollen and or nectar does have a unknown attractor in the pollen/nectar that does attract the bees away for other flowers for a few hours each day, the short time it takes the bees to collect all the pollen and nectar only to return to other wild flowers if available. Sadly the farmers have taken to seeing bees on other flowers as a sign they are not working their almonds and for years have spent much time in preventing other flowers blooming during the almond bloom with chemicals and tractors. Much attention also has been paid to the dispersal of bees in the almonds, mostly because of grower concerns that they are providing bees for their neighbour. Several times research has been carried out to determine how the bees should be placed in the almonds. The placement in small groups as practiced today does not increase the almond yields at all and only makes more work for the beekeeper. Some beekeepers have found that to charge more for smaller groups of bees cures this problem but few growers allow truck loads in one spot which is all that is has been needed from day one as the bees disperse like water poured from a jug on a table top. The more water pored the farther the dispersal. No orchard has ever been found in California that bees could not be found during the bloom, yet many orchards do not have bees in them. No factual information other then individual trees caged to keep bees out can be cited to show bees or bees in certain numbers are needed for almond pollination and this type of information has some problems due to the influence of the cage on a tree that normally grows without that benefit. Almonds are cross pollinated between different parent trees grown in alternating rows. The bees must move the heavy pollen from the male parts of one verity to the female parts of another. Almond pollen is very heavy and is not dispersed by the wind. The flowers shed pollen in the late afternoon and are attractive to bees then and in the mornings. The bee collected pollen is very strange, and brakes down even when frozen. It will ferment very fast, and is bitter to the taste. The total amount that can be trapped from an acre of almonds is not that great even with the large numbers of blooms and trees per acre. They honey is also bitter and seldom gathered in surplus so as to be extracted by beekeepers. The best almond location are those that are adjacent to other flowers, other fruit crops, and along rivers lined with wild trees or in areas that have natural ground covers of mustard or other flowers. In good years the bees will swarm in the almonds without beekeeper care. NOT a problem the last few years in California. ttul, the OLd Drone (c) Permission is granted to freely copy this document in any form, or to print for any use. (w)Opinions are not necessarily facts. Use at own risk. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 Jun 1996 22:16:44 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Dave Green, Eastern Pollinator Newsletter" Subject: Re: DRONE Layer?! In a message dated 96-06-17 11:34:15 EDT, megloff@cscuuxch.dayton.csc.com (Mark D. Egloff) writes: > It is obvious that the queen is a drone layer and needs to be replaced. A > replacement is on order and will arrive this week.> Should I remove the "old" queen several days before I install the new one? I've never done this, and don't feel that it is too significant. She may well be already gone. >Should I add a frame or two of worker brood at > the time of installation? Remember that you now have mostly old worker bees, who will be reluctant to accept a queen; in fact they may not even be capable of caring for her. Adding worker brood is the only way to get a good chance at acceptance. You want sealed brood, so there will be plenty of young bees. These will care for the queen. You could also take out the drone brood and place it back into the hive you got brood from. I'm not sure how the mechanism works, but it's sort of like the bees look at the brood, and think the queen is failing. So they do her in. If you have ONLY good brood, the acceptance rate is improved. This drone brood should be no problem in a normal hive. If there are multiple eggs in the cells, and they are glued to the sides rather than the bottom, you have a laying worker(s), not a drone laying queen. This is a near hopeless situation, though some will tell you you can dump the bees at a distance, and let them fly home. Theoretically the laying worker(s) will not return. If my experience the best use of a hive with laying workers is to set it on a strong hive as a super. Congratulations on being alert enough to catch the problem and deal with it before the wax worms do. It always amazes me how many beekeepers tell me the wax worms "killed their bees." Pollinator@aol.com Dave Green, PO Box 1200, Hemingway, SC 29554 Practical Pollination Home Page Dave & Janice Green http://users.aol.com/pollinator/polpage1.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Jun 1996 01:49:16 GMT Reply-To: johntrn@ldd.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: John Taylor Organization: midwest.net Subject: Re: Feeding Syrup/Pollen In-Reply-To: On Mon, 17 Jun 1996 12:24:10 -0400, you wrote: > REGARDING RE>Feeding Syrup/Pollen >What book are you reading? I agree with your experience, that a new package How to Keep Bees and Sell Honey (Walter T. Kelley) >would never eat up 100 lbs of sugar just getting started. Now, part of the >difference may be in our two locations, but of the 55 packages I started the last >week of April this year, the *most* any package took was about 1 quart of syrup. > Except for making up ant bait with part of the rest, I had to They have taken a good couple of gallons from installation to now. Of course, this is a brand new hive, so they are starting from foundation on every frame. >I wouldn't give them sugar after putting on the supers. You want natural >nectar honey in your supers, not sugar water honey. That seems to be the general consensus I'm getting. That and I may not get much/any honey of my own this year. > >Sure, the bees will take up some pollen into the supers, usually only the one >just above the brood nest. I find that this is discouraged quite a bit if I use >queen excluders (plus I don't get *any* brood in the supers, which I find >disgusting to try to extract around). If you have pollen in your extracting >frames, it is especially important to balance them well when loading the >extractor, but otherwise it is really no problem. Does it just get filtered out then? I was under the impression that it would 'stain' the honey . . . or is that just a problem if you're going for that nice light honey? > >Ted Fischer Thanks Ted! -- John Taylor -- Southeast Missouri When in danger, or in doubt, run in circles, scream and shout! ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Jun 1996 02:29:54 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Michael Lance High Sr." Subject: Re: Yield per Super In-Reply-To: <199606180013.RAA23249@spain.it.earthlink.net> My own experiance is that the amount of honey varies depending on the type of honey collected during honey flow.Some types are very much thicker & heavier than others.As to 9 frames vs. 8, I always use ten as it cuts down on the amount of scur in the super.Not much help, but my own personal experiance. ML High "I take my chances,I don't mind working without a net, I take my chances,I take my chances every chance I get" Mary Chapin Carpenter ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 Jun 1996 19:57:19 +0100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Paul Walton Subject: Re: Plants for bees. In-Reply-To: <199606171756.AA286804185@rhum.hpl.hp.com> In article <199606171756.AA286804185@rhum.hpl.hp.com>, Malcolm Roe writes >I can't say whether sage would be a good choice elsewhere but where I live >(SW England) it would seem to be a good candidate for a bee plant. > >-- >Malcolm Roe mdr@hplb.hpl.hp.com > Hewlett-Packard Laboratories Bristol > Filton Road, Stoke Gifford, Bristol, BS12 6QZ, UK > Tel: +44 117 922 9331 Fax: +44 117 922 8128 Malcolm, Try the IBRAs booklet "GARDEN PLANTS VALUABLE TO BEES". There is a list in there of plant, flowering period, height, description, and a note as to whether the plant is good for Nectar, Pollen or specifically useful to Bumble Bees. -- Paul Walton Paul@adrem.demon.co.uk Toddington, Bedfordshire, England. Tel. +44 (0)1525 875570 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Jun 1996 10:17:45 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Albert W. Needham" Subject: Re: "The HoneyBee" Hoorah! The software program "The HoneyBee" is finished! For those of you new to the list: "The HoneyBee" An Educational Program About HoneyBees, Their Role In Nature, & Their Value To All Of Us Human Beings. Superbly illustrated with close-up photos in vivid colors, graciously contributed by P-O Gustafsson {Fellow BEE-Ler from Sweden}. The program contains some true (humurous) stories contributed by some BEE-Lers and also contains some extracts from the discussion on BEE-L about favorite sources of honey. This program is designed to be an educational Public Relations effort on behalf of our friends the HoneyBees - an effort to sway people away from "My god it's a bee - stomp, squash, spray it right now!!" and an attempt to interest man, woman, or child to become a BeeKeeper. Suitable for adults and/or children of any age with a couple of features that should catch kid's attention. In all modesty, I think that you will like it. The program takes up about 1.3mb on your hard disk. Requires SVGA. Runs in Dos or Windows (see the program's Readme.exe file). I want to say that while the idea for the program was an original one on my part, it made the transition to reality when I came across P-O's great photographs! I also very much appreciate the contributions from fellow BEE-Lers. Without all of you it never would have 'bee' born! I believe that most of the facts are correct. Please remember that this program is designed for the general public! Please feel free to send me any comments you may have - especially any good ideas that you may have for an updated version that I may do in the Fall/Winter. I would like to do a future multimedia version with sound, if I could find a good source willing to contribute.You can even pitch a few brickbats if it helps your psyche out. Please do not throw them too hard as my head is getting softer in retirement! If you like the program, upload it to your local BBS's, give a copy to your local school system, or to whomever! The program is Freeware. It is currently uploaded to America Online ( Go to "Quickfind" and type in Honeybee.zip to find it-it is in the Kid's Apps Section ). It is also available as a download from P-O Gustfsson's Web Site - http://www.kuai.se/~beeman/ Al Needham Hobbyist BeeKeeper Alwine@aol.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Jun 1996 08:43:32 PDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Adrian Wenner Subject: Re: MITE INFESTATION???? "Psyche" wrote: >I would like to do an article about [the varroa mite infestation] for a >>magazine I'm affiliated with. >Does anyone have information on it? (I'm brand new to this list so wouldn't >know). I say a segment on the news about it last night and it had me concerned >enough to join this list. I did a websearch but may not be looking in the right >place. > >This is affecting all populations both wild and domesticated, yes? >And what do we do? ****** In the June issue of BEE CULTURE (it should be in your local library) we have an article on the spread of varroa mites in this country. At the end of that article you will find a number of references to publications about the problem. Adrian *************************************************************** * Adrian Wenner E-Mail wenner@lifesci.lscf.ucsb.edu * * Dept.Ecol.,Evol.,& Mar.Biol. Office Phone (805) 893-2838 * * University of California Lab Phone (805) 893-2675 * * Santa Barbara, CA 93106 FAX (805) 893-8062 * * * *************************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Jun 1996 12:46:43 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Joel Govostes Subject: Re: Yield per Super >On average, how much honey is extracted from one medium depth super? >Per shallow super? I'm looking for a practical factor that I can use >to estimate my production. > >Also, is there a significant difference in yield using eight frames >instead of nine? > >Thanks, >John in Dallas In my experience, about 25 lbs from a shallow, about 35 lbs from a medium, and 45-50 lbs from a deep, by the time it reaches your buckets. Then there is also the honey you salvage from the cappings. I used to run 9 frames in honey supers. Now I go with 8, evenly spaced across the super. This works great. The combs are fat, easy to uncap right back to the wood and yield more wax. My guess is that the 8 frames might yield a little more honey than 9 as they are drawn out more with greater cell volume. (Not sure, tho'.) The bees seem to work very well with the extra "elbow room," which gradually is lessened as the combs are extended out. They appear to respect this extra-wide spacing in the honey-storage area without problems. Gives them a chance to do some wax construction. Another nice thing about 8's is that your handling is decreased by 11% when extracting (and each comb-unit holds more). Yes there is burr comb, often containing lots of honey. This is scraped right down during uncapping with a few fast sweeps of the uncapping knife, and the frame is clean again - no problem. Hope this helps. Toodaloo, J. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Jun 1996 12:49:18 -0600 Reply-To: allend@internode.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Allen Dick Organization: The Beekeepers Subject: Re: Yield per Super > In my experience, about 25 lbs from a shallow, about 35 lbs from a > medium, and 45-50 lbs from a deep, by the time it reaches your > buckets. Then there is also the honey you salvage from the > cappings. We try to remove the standard depth boxes when they weigh 50 pounds. That is 30 lbs honey and about 20 for the box and frames. Of course they are typically above that in weight, but that way, we get a minimum of uncapping (we try for none). Until recently, they only uncapping we did was scratching with a fork. LAtely we have been using a Dakota Guness and don't care if the frames are capped because they all pretty well go thru the machine. > > I used to run 9 frames in honey supers. Now I go with 8, evenly > spaced across the super. This works great. The combs are fat, easy > to uncap right back to the wood and yield more wax. A bonus here is that if you don't use excluders, and you don't uncap deep, the queens are more reluctant to lay in the extra deep cells that develop with the wide (8 frame) spacing, and tend to stay in the brood nest -- where normal 9 or 10 frame spacing is used. Regards Allen W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper VE6CFK RR#1, Swalwell, Alberta Canada T0M 1Y0 Internet:dicka@cuug.ab.ca & allend@internode.net Honey. Bees, & Art <http://www.internode.net/~allend/> ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Jun 1996 13:02:36 -0600 Reply-To: allend@internode.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Allen Dick Organization: The Beekeepers Subject: Re: "The HoneyBee" > Hoorah! > > The software program "The HoneyBee" is finished! Well I've downloaded it and I'm pretty keen to take a look. Only one thing has stopped me, and I hope I'm not being rude or ungrateful here, but has anyone run a few good virus checkers on it yet? I am generally pretty reluctant to run anything that doesn't come from a major site (even they occasionally let a bug thru) , so I'm hoping some of the keeners in the group have sniffed this over and can give it a clean bill of health. Regards Allen W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper VE6CFK RR#1, Swalwell, Alberta Canada T0M 1Y0 Internet:dicka@cuug.ab.ca & allend@internode.net Honey. Bees, & Art <http://www.internode.net/~allend/> ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Jun 1996 14:09:49 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Joel Govostes Subject: Yield per super/spacing frames >A bonus here is that if you don't use excluders, and you don't uncap >deep, the queens are more reluctant to lay in the extra deep cells >that develop with the wide (8 frame) spacing, and tend to stay in the >brood nest -- where normal 9 or 10 frame spacing is used. >Regards >Allen >W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper VE6CFK >RR#1, Swalwell, Alberta Canada T0M 1Y0 >Internet:dicka@cuug.ab.ca & allend@internode.net >Honey. Bees, & Art <http://www.internode.net/~allend/> Thanks, Allen. Yes, forgot to mention this but have indeed found it to be so. Sometimes a bit of brood ends up in the very first super but it's gone and replaced by honey by the time it's harvested. Evidently the queens do have an aversion to trying to lay in such deep cells. So I've dispensed with the excluders while using 8-fr spacing. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Jun 1996 20:39:00 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Dave Green, Eastern Pollinator Newsletter" Subject: Re: Feeding Syrup/Pollen Comments: cc: johntrn@ldd.net In a message dated 96-06-17 22:40:55 EDT, johntrn@ldd.net (John Taylor) writes: >>Sure, the bees will take up some pollen into the supers, usually only the >one >>just above the brood nest. I find that this is discouraged quite a bit if I >>use queen excluders (plus I don't get *any* brood in the supers, which I >find >>disgusting to try to extract around). If you have pollen in your extracting >>frames, it is especially important to balance them well when loading the >>extractor, but otherwise it is really no problem. >Does it just get filtered out then? I was under the impression that >it would 'stain' the honey . . . or is that just a problem if you're >going for that nice light honey? Pollen in the frames makes a heavier frame, and it will not spin out. The extractor will "walk" around. I just did some custom extracting and we had a dickens of a time getting the extractor balanced. There was a lot of pollen, some brood, and some brand new frames made from foundation, all mixed with old, dark comb. The ones with brood (mostly drone) we don't run through the uncapper, but just use a scratcher to uncap the honey part. The brood stays put. Some was also crystalized (overwintered). We got what we could. The outcome was delicious, and quite light, too. I don't think pollen will stain the honey, though it tends to make it more cloudy. But I don't believe the pollen content in the honey comes from the pollen already packed in the cells. Pollen in the honey is demanded by many consumers. They don't want the fine filtering of supermarket honey, so as to save the pollen. "Raw" honey has a shorter shelf life, as it will crystallize quicker. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Jun 1996 21:16:46 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Bill Miller Subject: Re: Feeding Syrup/Pollen John Taylor's book says to feed swarms a sugar solution made up of 20 pounds of sugar to 1 gallon of water? That's a 2.5 to 1 strength- fall feeding stuff. Not what I want to feed a fresh package. I was taught (and have had success with) feeding packages and weak colonies 1 to 1 sugar syrup to simulate a nectar flow. The lesser concentration simulates a natural nectar flow, and encourages the workers to draw comb and the queen to lay eggs. Both of these are desirable in a package. How long to feed? Maryland is funny in that respect, for no nectar comes in during the summer. I (in Maryland) would feed a package at least until the fall nectar flow starts, but I will be the first to say that is because of our local condidtions. W. G. Miller Gaithersburg, MD ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Jun 1996 15:37:35 -1000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Walter Patton Pollen in the honey is demanded by many consumers. They don't want the fine filtering of supermarket honey, so as to save the pollen. "Raw" honey has a shorter shelf life, as it will crystallize quicker. Say Dave Does the statement above mean that crystallized raw honey is bad and should be taken off the shelf. I hope not as a pervayor of 100 % RAW Hawaii Honey I sell a lot of crystallized honey to customers who recognize crystallized honey as the only sure way to know that the honey is raw and unprocessed and better for them from a health stand point. Aloha Walter Walter & Elisabeth Patton, 27-703 A Ka' ie'ie Rd., Papaikou HI.,96781 Ph./Fax. 808-964-5401 E-Mail hihoney@ilhawaii Beekeeper and Bed & Breakfast Owner in Hawaii http://www.alohamall.com/hamakua/hihoney.htm http://www.alohamall.com/hamakua/beeware.htm http://www.alohamall.com/hamakua/lamalani.htm ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 Jun 1996 08:30:02 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Aaron Morris Subject: Birds and Bees The following was sent to me by Liz Day (remember Liz?) who picked this up from BIRDCHAT. Please respond to BEE-L (as I would like to read the answer, and I don't follow birdchat). Too much information and too little time! I'll send any responses back to Liz and she'll forward them to BIRDCHAT. >> Sender: "National Birding Hotline Cooperative (Chat Line)" >> >> From: Marcia Braun >> Subject: bee killed purple martin >> To: Multiple recipients of list BIRDCHAT >> >> >> My husband and I were witness this weekend to a strange >> example of insect/bird interaction in our back yard. >> >> We were watching a female purple martin feed two youngsters on >> the porch of the martin house. Honey bees from a hive on the >> other side of the garage were heading out to forage, steaming >> by the martin house. As we watched, one young martin suddenly >> leaped off of the house and fluttered to the ground. We went >> to investigate and found the bird lying panting on the ground, >> with a honey bee stinging it on the back of the neck. Ron >> knocked the bee off. The bird died a few seconds later. The >> mother martin flew about wildly when the young bird leaped >> from the house, and continued to call after we left the area. >> >> We are guessing that the bee flying by collided with the bird >> and then stung it. Probably it was the sting and not the fall >> that killed it. The bees were not trying to take over the >> house -- that is, it was not an instance of a swarm looking >> for a new nest site. >> >> This seems unusual to us, so I wanted to ask if anyone else >> has heard of honey bees stinging birds. >> >> Marcia Braun >> Houston, TX >> braun_m@hccs.cc.tx.us ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 Jun 1996 08:42:16 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Aaron Morris Subject: Bumbles making a strong showing! I've noticed a lot of bumblebees this season, more than I remember in previous years, and people with whom I share this observation agree that there are many more bumbles in this neck of the woods (upstate New York) this spring. I wonder if the decline of feral honeybees has lessened the competition? Perhaps the bumblebees are thriving in the mite induced void? If this is the case, then might we anticipate a thriving vespid population later this summer? Have others parts of the country (world? - I don't know the range for bombus) noticed more bumblebees than 'normal'? Anyone care to speculate? Aaron Morris - thinking I'd rather bumble than WASP! ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 Jun 1996 07:29:58 PDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Adrian Wenner Subject: Re: Feeding Syrup/Pollen I have a question with regard to the following topic: >John Taylor's book says to feed swarms a sugar solution made up of 20 pounds of >sugar to 1 gallon of water? That's a 2.5 to 1 strength- fall feeding stuff. >Not what I want to feed a fresh package. > >I was taught (and have had success with) feeding packages and weak colonies 1 to >1 sugar syrup to simulate a nectar flow. The lesser concentration simulates a >natural nectar flow, and encourages the workers to draw comb and the queen to lay >eggs. Both of these are desirable in a package. ******* In the past several weeks we have had various references to making up sugar syrup for feeding bees. The above example switches from a weight and volume ratio to a 1:1 ratio. The question: "When someone says 1:1, does that mean each component by weight (1# of sugar to 1# of water), by volume (1 liter of sugar to 1 liter of water), or by a combination of the two measures?" Which is meant makes a great deal of difference in the sugar concentration. By the context of the messages, it appears that people are using equal VOLUMES of sugar and water. If that is NOT true in your operations, would you please send your response to me directly rather than to BEE-L (unless you feel your reply is of general interest). Thanks in advance. Adrian *************************************************************** * Adrian Wenner E-Mail wenner@lifesci.lscf.ucsb.edu * * Dept.Ecol.,Evol.,& Mar.Biol. Office Phone (805) 893-2838 * * University of California Lab Phone (805) 893-2675 * * Santa Barbara, CA 93106 FAX (805) 893-8062 * * * *************************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 Jun 1996 07:51:22 PDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Adrian Wenner Subject: Re: Bumbles making a strong showing! >I've noticed a lot of bumblebees this season, more than I remember in >previous years, and people with whom I share this observation agree that >there are many more bumbles in this neck of the woods (upstate New York) >this spring. I wonder if the decline of feral honeybees has lessened the >competition? Perhaps the bumblebees are thriving in the mite induced >void? If this is the case, then might we anticipate a thriving vespid >population later this summer? > >Have others parts of the country (world? - I don't know the range >for bombus) noticed more bumblebees than 'normal'? > >Anyone care to speculate? ****** Yes, my yard is full of bumble bees now compared to earlier years, as is the case in our project out on Santa Cruz Island. Also, the mountainous regions of California have experienced an epidemic of vespid populations (causing a lot of problems in campgrounds) --- coincident with the arrival of varroa in the state. Of course, those who frequent campgrounds tend to be careless with food waste, providing a lot of forage for the yellow and black beasts. Adrian *************************************************************** * Adrian Wenner E-Mail wenner@lifesci.lscf.ucsb.edu * * Dept.Ecol.,Evol.,& Mar.Biol. Office Phone (805) 893-2838 * * University of California Lab Phone (805) 893-2675 * * Santa Barbara, CA 93106 FAX (805) 893-8062 * * * *************************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Jun 1996 12:53:47 PDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: John Day Subject: Re: Yield per super/spacing frames about honey yield, the last issue of bee culture ran a spread sheet on 8- 9- and 10 frame deep, shallow and 5 1/4" supers showing the yield of honey, and wax for each. however, they did not give the tips, like allan's about the queens avoiding 8 frames. very useful. (\ John /) {|||8- in -8|||} (/ Santa Cruz \) California ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Jun 1996 18:50:40 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: AceTubby@aol.com Subject: carpenter bees Carpenter bees are causing problems. Our home is ten years old and for the past five years carpenter bees have been drilling 3/8 inch diameter holes in the cedar trim. I've tried plugging these holes with silicone or dead bees and, in every case, two new holes appear nearby. these large-hummingbird size--bees keeping making sawdust!! Anyone with thoughts or a solution or any relevant information: please e-mail me at "Ace Tubby @aol.com. I am located in the connnecticut river valley, near long island sound and any available information about the entymology of carpenter bees might also be useful. thank you, Dave Brainard ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 Jun 1996 09:53:47 +0000 Reply-To: James.Peterson.2@m.k12.ut.us Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: James Peterson Organization: UtahLink Subject: Extractor I recently bought an extractor that is not stainless. Am I violating any "laws" by rebuilding and using this extractor (galvanized). Some people in our asssociation think I should epoxy coat the inside of the extractor. Does any one know the Diffusion Coefficient of Zinc in honey? ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 Jun 1996 16:38:19 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "(Kevin & Shawna Roberts)" Subject: Re: Birds and Bees >> This seems unusual to us, so I wanted to ask if anyone else >> has heard of honey bees stinging birds. Bees will sting anything when they get upset. It sounds like the bee flew into the baby, got disoriented, and stung out of reflex. Last month, we had some puppies at the house, and they got stung every now and then too.. just stumbling into the wrong place at the wrong time (Nobody suffered lasting consequences luckily). I also know of people who had bees and chickens. When the bees got upset, they would sometimes sting the chickens (as well as the beekeeper, his dog, and the neighbor's cat). Sometimes the chickens died as a result. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 Jun 1996 17:35:49 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: David Eyre Subject: Re: Yield per Super > >I used to run 9 frames in honey supers. Now I go with 8, evenly spaced >across the super. This works great. The combs are fat, easy to uncap >right back to the wood and yield more wax. My guess is that the 8 frames >might yield a little more honey than 9 as they are drawn out more with >greater cell volume. (Not sure, tho'.) The bees seem to work very well >with the extra "elbow room," which gradually is lessened as the combs are >extended out. They appear to respect this extra-wide spacing in the >honey-storage area without problems. Gives them a chance to do some wax >construction. Another nice thing about 8's is that your handling is >decreased by 11% when extracting (and each comb-unit holds more). Yes >there is burr comb, often containing lots of honey. This is scraped right >down during uncapping with a few fast sweeps of the uncapping knife, and >the frame is clean again - no problem. Hope this helps. Toodaloo, J. After all the years since this controversy first started ie. less frames per super, I still question this. If we are into honey production are we not wasting honey making extra wax? A standard box with 10 frames will hold as much honey as an 8 frame, per volume. If, on extracting we cut the frame back to wood, are we not producing a lot more wax than necessary with a 10 frame set up, and therefore wasting honey on un-necessary wax production. A final point, with an 8 frame set up, you can't slip a frame into the brood box without cutting it around!!! **************************************************** * David Eyre 9 Progress Drive, Unit 2, * * The Beeworks, Orillia, Ontario, L3V 6H1. * * beeworks@muskoka.net 705-326-7171 * * http://www.muskoka.net/~beeworks * * Agents for: E H Thorne & B J Sherriff UK. * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 Jun 1996 16:57:50 -0600 Reply-To: allend@internode.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Allen Dick Organization: The Beekeepers Subject: Re: Yield per Super > After all the years since this controversy first started ie. less > frames per super, I still question this. If we are into honey > production are we not wasting honey making extra wax? Well this is a matter of taste, and i think that it will depend on a lot of factors, incluing area, beekeeping style, etc. Our bees are making some wax anyhow during fast flows, and will use it places where we don't want it -- if they have no constructive use set out for them. > A standard box with 10 frames will hold as much honey as an > 8 frame, per volume. Well, there are 2 more bee spaces across the box with 10 frames than 8, so more air and less honey, but we never want them that full anyhow, so the point is moot. Where the 8 frames shine is that there is 20% less uncapping and 20% less extracting, so we get 10 hours work done in 8 -- and that is enough for most of our crew. > If, on extracting we cut the frame back to wood, > are we not producing a lot more wax than necessary with a 10 frame > set up, and therefore wasting honey on un-necessary wax production. Depends wher your wood is. On Manley type frames with wide ends and tops, that is not much, but on thinner normal frames, your point may be well taken. We scratch or use a chain flail uncapper only, so our frames get fat, and we don't cut back to the wood. > A final point, with an 8 frame set up, you can't slip a > frame into the brood box without cutting it around!!! We do -- if need be. We do keep our broods separate from our supers, so that is not a problem unless we need more broods. Then we have to use super combs. But then again, we have some 9 frame spaced broods as well as 10. In both cases, the bees trim the fat combs back quickly enough that we've seldom noticed a problem. In an occasional situation, though you are right, and we do have to trim. Regards Allen W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper VE6CFK RR#1, Swalwell, Alberta Canada T0M 1Y0 Internet:dicka@cuug.ab.ca & allend@internode.net Honey. Bees, & Art <http://www.internode.net/~allend/> ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 Jun 1996 19:31:47 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Stanton A Hershman Subject: Re: Bumbles making a strong showing! >Have others parts of the country (world? - I don't know the range >for bombus) noticed more bumblebees than 'normal'? > i'm located in northeast florida and if anything, there seems to be fewer bumblebees this year. i kind of pay attention to their numbers and have only seen two this season so far. one was trying desperately to make a nest behind the strike plate on one of the outside doors and the other landed on the ramp of one of my hives. he lasted a couple of minutes until the HORDE from inside nailed him. stanton * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * From the desk of Stanton A Hershman FIDONET: 1:3620/21@fidonet.org INTERNET: Phoenix@aug.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * MADNESS TAKES ITS TOLL. PLEASE HAVE EXACT CHANGE ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 Jun 1996 19:31:49 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Stanton A Hershman Subject: Re: Feeding Syrup/Pollen > By the context of the messages, it appears that people are using equal >VOLUMES of sugar and water. If that is NOT true in your operations, would >you please send your response to me directly rather than to BEE-L (unless >you feel your reply is of general interest). > can't speak for anyone else, but i am interested in the outcome of this discussion stanton * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * From the desk of Stanton A Hershman FIDONET: 1:3620/21@fidonet.org INTERNET: Phoenix@aug.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * MADNESS TAKES ITS TOLL. PLEASE HAVE EXACT CHANGE ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 Jun 1996 22:07:37 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Ralph W. Harrison" Subject: Re: Feeding Syrup/Pollen I think that most beekeepers use the fomula "a pint is a pound the world around" ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 Jun 1996 20:53:41 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ann Dougherty Subject: Bleaching Wax I'm trying to get the lightest wax possible. I put Hydrogen peroxide in the liquid wax while rendering, but have also heard that setting the wax in the sun will bleach it also. I've got a sheet of wax about 1/4 inch thick that is sitting in my back yard in any weather that happens along. How long does it take? Will dark wax be bleached white? What is the optimum thicknes? Ann ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 20 Jun 1996 01:59:47 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Michael L. Wallace" Subject: Re: Feeding Syrup/Pollen At 07:29 6/19/96 PDT, you wrote: > In the past several weeks we have had various references to making up >sugar syrup for feeding bees. The above example switches from a weight and >volume ratio to a 1:1 ratio. The question: "When someone says 1:1, does >that mean each component by weight (1# of sugar to 1# of water), by volume >(1 liter of sugar to 1 liter of water), or by a combination of the two >measures?" > > Which is meant makes a great deal of difference in the sugar concentration. > > By the context of the messages, it appears that people are using equal >VOLUMES of sugar and water. If that is NOT true in your operations, would >you please send your response to me directly rather than to BEE-L (unless >you feel your reply is of general interest). > > Thanks in advance. > > Adrian > >*************************************************************** >* Adrian Wenner E-Mail wenner@lifesci.lscf.ucsb.edu * >* Dept.Ecol.,Evol.,& Mar.Biol. Office Phone (805) 893-2838 * >* University of California Lab Phone (805) 893-2675 * >* Santa Barbara, CA 93106 FAX (805) 893-8062 * >* * >*************************************************************** > I don't know about anyone else, but here's how I mix it. I place an entire 4 lb. bag of sugar in a gallon jar and then fill it the rest of the way up with water. The sugar fills the jar approximately half way up, so I would suppose, using my method, it would be by volume. Someone else will need to do the calculating. I work second shift and it's 2:00 AM (bed-time for me) and my mind has shut down for the night. Other's may do it differently. Hope this helps with the question. Cheer'zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz! Mike Wallace Sar Shalom Apiary McKinney, Texas USA "Out of the heart, the mouth speaks." ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 20 Jun 1996 06:44:46 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Rick Grubbs Organization: Beekeeper Subject: Re: Feeding Syrup/Pollen > I don't know about anyone else, but here's how I mix it. I place an entire 4 > lb. bag of sugar in a gallon jar and then fill it the rest of the way up with > water. The sugar fills the jar approximately half way up, so I would suppose, > using my method, it would be by volume. Someone else will need to do the > calculating. I work second shift and it's 2:00 AM (bed-time for me) and my mind > has shut down for the night. > > Other's may do it differently. Hope this helps with the question. > > Cheer'zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz! > > Mike Wallace > Sar Shalom Apiary > McKinney, Texas USA > "Out of the heart, the mouth speaks." I use the same method. I use an old milk jug and pour 5lbs of sugar in and fill the rest with hot water. If it is a little off the bees don't seem to mind... -- http://www.avana.net/pages/personal/digital/digital.htm *************************** * Charles (Rick) Grubbs * * digital@avana.net * * Douglasville, Ga SE USA * *************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 20 Jun 1996 11:19:53 GMT Reply-To: johntrn@ldd.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: John Taylor Organization: midwest.net Subject: Re: Feeding Syrup/Pollen In-Reply-To: <960618203646_332386372@emout13.mail.aol.com> On Tue, 18 Jun 1996 20:39:00 -0400, you wrote: > Pollen in the frames makes a heavier frame, and it will not spin out. The >extractor will "walk" around. I just did some custom extracting and we had a >dickens of a time getting the extractor balanced. There was a lot of pollen, some >brood, and some brand new frames made from foundation, all mixed with old, dark >comb. The ones with brood (mostly drone) we don't run through the uncapper, but >just use a scratcher to uncap the honey part. The brood stays put. Some was >also crystalized (overwintered). We got what we could. > The outcome was delicious, and quite light, too. I'm not sure I know the difference between capped brood and and capped honey . . . how do you avoid brood when using the scratcher? Is there a little rounded cap over brood and caps over honey more of a solid, running cap? Hmmm, it's back to the hive to beek at comb again. -- John Taylor -- Southeast Missouri When in danger, or in doubt, run in circles, scream and shout! ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 20 Jun 1996 14:12:37 +0100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jean-Marie Van Dyck Subject: Pollen in honey ... Hello all, On Tue, 18 Jun 1996 "Dave Green wrote ... > I don't think pollen will stain the honey, though it tends to make > it more cloudy. But I don't believe the pollen content in the honey > comes from the pollen already packed in the cells. [comment :] Pollen in the honey comes principally from the harvested flowers and this contamination vary a lot from a species to another - the forget-me-not (Myosotis sp) and sweet chesnut (Castanea sp), for ex, put lot of pollen in the honey, lime (Tilia sp) very few. > Pollen in the honey is demanded by many consumers. They don't want > the fine filtering of supermarket honey, so as to save the pollen. > "Raw" honey has a shorter shelf life, as it will crystallize quicker. On Tue, 18 Jun 1996 Walter & Elisabeth Patton answered ... > Say Dave > Does the statement above mean that crystallized raw honey is bad > and should be taken off the shelf. [comment :] In Europe, it is NOT LEGAL (yet?) to ultra-filter the honeys because this process filter out the honey signature (pollens can really give the floral origin but not the relative importance) Unfortunately, in liquid honey, pollens, as sugar small crystals, can induce the crystallization process, very slowly indeed (and the crystals are very rought!, more than in the controlled cristallization of creamed honey). This occurs mainly when the temperature decreases below 15-20 C. The aging of this honey is the same as liquid honey. Only its appearance and mouth sensations are changed, of course. But is this not one important request(exigency?) of the consumers ? Cheers Jean-Marie Lat.Long. : N:50.30' E:04.56' - Alt. : 200 m - North sea : 200 km ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Jean-Marie Van Dyck Fax +32 81 72 42 72 B.P. 102 email : jmvandyck@quick.cc.fundp.ac.be B-5000 NAMUR(Belgium) Medical school - Biochemistry dept Sorry for my poor english : je parle francais ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 20 Jun 1996 11:27:54 GMT Reply-To: johntrn@ldd.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: John Taylor Organization: midwest.net Subject: Re: Feeding Syrup/Pollen In-Reply-To: <960618210306_559132959@emout08.mail.aol.com> Hi W. G. Miller, >John Taylor's book says to feed swarms a sugar solution made up of 20 pounds of >sugar to 1 gallon of water? That's a 2.5 to 1 strength- fall feeding stuff. >Not what I want to feed a fresh package. Thankfully I had lots of good help when I first tried this mixture. I posted a question about it on here and was immediately encourage to use 1 to 1. You wouldn't believe the difficulty I had getting that stuff into solution! About 1/3 of it sat on the bottom. > >I was taught (and have had success with) feeding packages and weak colonies 1 to >1 sugar syrup to simulate a nectar flow. The lesser concentration simulates a >natural nectar flow, and encourages the workers to draw comb and the queen to lay >eggs. Both of these are desirable in a package. This must be what was meant by "stimulate them" when I was encourage to use 1:1 instead of the aforementioned. I kept forgeting to ask what was meant by that. > >How long to feed? Maryland is funny in that respect, for no nectar comes in >during the summer. I (in Maryland) would feed a package at least until the fall >nectar flow starts, but I will be the first to say that is because of our local >condidtions. I stongly suspect that I will end up feeding a good deal of this first season from what I'm seeing in the hive and reading in BEE-L. Thanks to all for all the good information. -- John Taylor -- Southeast Missouri When in danger, or in doubt, run in circles, scream and shout! ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 20 Jun 1996 08:05:21 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ray Lackey Subject: carpenter bees I fill a garden sprayer with 1/4 cup dish washing soap and 2 gallons of water. At night, I go around and push the nozzel into the holes and give the holes a good flush. The bees come out and drop to the ground, dead by morning. Repeating this a couple times over their emergence/ mating time keeps the population, and new borings under control. I tolerate a few because I like to watch them in aireal battles in defending their territories. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ + Raymond J. Lackey, EAS Master Beekeeper, Pres LIBC + + Twelve years exper with 25 colonies on Long Island, NY+ + INTERNET: lackeyr@hazeltine.com + + Mail: 1260 Walnut Avenue, Bohemia NY 11617-2176 + + Home Phone: 516-567-1936 FAX: 516-262-8053 + ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 20 Jun 1996 08:01:14 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: WILLIAM G LORD Subject: Bulgarian beekeeper I am interested in corresposnding with the Bulgarian beekeeper who posted something to Bee-L last week. Unfortunately I zapped his message. Is anyone from Bulgaria out there? Let me know, thanks Bill Lord -- WILLIAM G LORD E-Mail : wglord@franklin Internet: wglord@franklin.ces.ncsu.edu Phone : 9194963344 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 20 Jun 1996 03:25:00 GMT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Andy Nachbaur Organization: WILD BEE'S BBS (209) 826-8107 LOS BANOS, CA Subject: Re: Birds and Bees >I also know of people who had bees and chickens. When the bees got upset, >they would sometimes sting the chickens (as well as the beekeeper, his dog, >and the neighbor's cat). Sometimes the chickens died as a result. Live long enough in the bees and you will see everything at least once, but I have never heard of or seen bees kill a chicken. I have no doubt that they can or did in this case but the closest I come to seeing it myself was in recording the early network TV news casts on the planned arrival of the killer bees from Mexico. In one newscast the bees in SA were shown attacking a donkey, pigs, and a chicken. One evening months later a small group of beekeepers dropped by my home and in place of the usual skin flicks or latest bee horror movie I put this collection of killer bee hype from network TV on. At the point when the chicken was getting his a question was asked, (put on the girly tape or something), and I stopped the tape.... Much to everyone's surprise the single frames clearly showed that the chicken was tethered or tied in front of the hive by a string and to no one's surprise the bees were indeed attacking it. I have never seen such expressions of shock on beekeepers faces, personally I was not surprised at this little extra effort to hype the killer bees as long ago I had found out that Walt Disney really did not film that famous Living Desert movie, and that many of the scenes were staged with trapped animals, and then I have also been lucky and interested enough to have been able over the years to talk one on one with many of the early beekeepers and the grad students, (hippies), and bee science gophers, who did the hands on work with the killer bees in SA and Central America. And all told me much the same story that the killer bee tale was at the least being exaggerated by some in the scientific community by setting up the press and much worse, to gain support for their own work. Most of the low level bee workers felt the so called killer bees were then a good resource that should be exploited for the productive honeybee they were compared to what had been before their arrival,...and today they are. I have a good reprint on line at the Wild Bee's BBS by ED Zuckerman, one of the more prolific writers and reporters who was hired to hype the killer bee's and I am sure no beekeeper has not seen some of his work over the years. Ed has since had second thoughts about it all and wrote a magazine article that covers some of the early dirty tricks used by our American Bee Scientists to cheat the public of their tax dollars and gain public support for some research that has since been shown to be of little or of no value. All you have not see this reprint can request it via e-mail by addressing a message like so: to: mylife.txt@beenet.com ttul Andy- (c) Permission is granted to freely copy this document in any form, or to print for any use. (w)Opinions are not necessarily facts. Use at own risk. --- ~ QMPro 1.53 ~ ... Barbs has it, like a bee. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 20 Jun 1996 10:06:37 -0500 Reply-To: bbirkey@interaccess.com Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Barry Birkey Organization: Birkey Construction Subject: html code in email It has been brought to my attention that the the email I sent out about my web site included html code as an attachment. An apology is in order to all. I obviously messed up on the attachment. Sorry for the inconveniece. -Barry -- Barry Birkey West Chicago, Illinois USA bbirkey@interaccess.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 20 Jun 1996 14:57:15 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Kevin Dawson Subject: List of Flowers? Where can I obtain a list of flowers (preferably wild) that bees like? I plan on purchasing my first hive(s) for next year and it would be great to have plenty of flowers around my house for them to feed on. Since it will be months before I can put them out (about 10), I have plenty of time to read and gain as much information as I can. Thanks, Kevin (The token newbie to the group) ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 20 Jun 1996 12:25:26 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ted Fischer Subject: Attacks on Bee Scientists REGARDING Attacks on Bee Scientists On 6/20, Andy Nachbaur wrote: "I have a good reprint on line at the Wild Bee's BBS by ED Zuckerman, one of the more prolific writers and reporters who was hired to hype the killer bee's and I am sure no beekeeper has not seen some of his work over the years. Ed has since had second thoughts about it all and wrote a magazine article that covers some of the early dirty tricks used by our American Bee Scientists to cheat the public of their tax dollars and gain public support for some research that has since been shown to be of little or of no value." I have not yet seen the reprint referred to here, so these comments may be premature, but I am becoming quite tired of innuendos like this one aimed at scientific researchers who put their efforts into study of our favorite insect, the honeybee. The purpose of scientific research is not to "hype" this or that subject (the media does a good enough job of that all on their own anyhow), or to play dirty tricks on the public, or to cheat the public out of their tax dollars. Basic research is just that - research into gaining a basic understanding of the biology of the honeybee, in this case. Scientists are in their profession because of a love for the acquisition of new knowledge. Often this knowledge is of direct help to other people (beekeepers, for example) and sometimes it is not directly applicable. In the latter case, it is nevertheless valuable as archived information, waiting for some future application or to be built upon by the next generation of researchers. How can it be said that research "has been shown" to be of little or no value? What limited view of "value" can one here have in mind? I do not personally know many bee scientists, but I do know some. They are friends of the beekeepers and our industry, not enemies. They do their work honestly and conscientiously, and do not deserve to be defamed. Ted Fischer ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 20 Jun 1996 16:43:35 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Stanton A Hershman Subject: Re: List of Flowers? >Where can I obtain a list of flowers (preferably wild) that bees like? I >plan on purchasing my first hive(s) for next year and it would be great to >have plenty of flowers around my house for them to feed on. Since it will >be months before I can put them out (about 10), I have plenty of time to >read and gain as much information as I can. > interesting that you should mention this. i have been stalling putting in my hives for the last 3 years and finally decided to get on with it. the normal excuses, not enough time and not enough time. planted lots of things that they supposedly like. i'm NOT SURE where they are going, the bees, but it's not in this yard, 1.75 acres, or the neighbors yards. everyone says they never see them. however, in six weeks three hives produced 4+ gallons of honey and pulled the comb from foundation. they mut know something that they are not sharing with me. yea, we talk every day! stanton * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * From the desk of Stanton A Hershman FIDONET: 1:3620/21@fidonet.org INTERNET: Phoenix@aug.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * MADNESS TAKES ITS TOLL. PLEASE HAVE EXACT CHANGE ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 20 Jun 1996 17:33:49 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jim Moore DTN276-9448 ogo1/e17 508-496-9448 Subject: Re: Attacks on Bee Scientists I just saw this Zuckerman article on the web the other day. From www.altavista.digital.com a query of: +queen +swarm +hive +zuckerman yields one hit: My Life With The Killer Bees MY LIFE WITH THE KILLER BEES. For nearly twenty years, I've watched as the killer bees made their way north. Now they're in California. So am I. By Ed... http://www.buzzmag.com/ISSUE33/killerbees33.html - size 24K-28 Aug 95 Jim Moore moore@aiag.enet.dec.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 Jun 1996 00:02:09 GMT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Franklin D. Humphrey Sr." Subject: Re: Replacing Old Brood Combs At 12:11 AM 6/18/96 +0000, you wrote: > Can someone kindly point me to scientific evidence that replacing >old brood combs actually benefits the health and/or honey production >of a colony? > > I've read speculation/hearsay on this, but would actually like to >read the scientific basis. > >Thanks, >John in Dallas > Hi John I have not seen any scientific data or papers on the removal of old combs. I have read several articles and listened to several lectures which advocate rotating old combs about every 5 years. The reason given is that toxins build up in the wax combs from the chemicals we put in the hive and the pollutants that the bees bring in. I have also heard some beekeepers say that they change so that the bees won' t become to small using an ever decreasing size cell to grow in. But then another beekeeper countered, "How small is to small". I attended a seminar this past weekend and one of the lecturers said that there is evidence that bees only survived 2 to 5 years in the same nest in the wild prior to domestication. They would either die out or abscond. Then the waxworms would clean up the wax and then bees moved back in and constructed new combs. I have started removing old combs a few years ago and I feel that it has contributed to the general health of my bees. All in all I would say that in the absence of something more definitive, it is a matter of preference when or if combs are rotated. Frank Humphrey beekeeper@worldnet.att.net Frank Humphrey beekeeper@worldmet.att.net ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 20 Jun 1996 21:27:36 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: David Hinz Subject: So long! I'm signing off for a while bron ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 Jun 1996 03:39:05 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Dave from Scranton Subject: Re: Bumbles making a strong showing! Comments: To: Aaron Morris In-Reply-To: <960619.084409.EDT.SYSAM@cnsibm.albany.edu> On Wed, 19 Jun 1996, Aaron Morris wrote: > I've noticed a lot of bumblebees this season, more than I remember in > previous years, and people with whom I share this observation agree that > there are many more bumbles in this neck of the woods (upstate New York) > this spring. I've noticed this as well. The field next to my house has had numerous bumblebees, more than last year, and less than a dozen honey bees noticed in the past month. ****************************************************************************** Dave D. Cawley, Maitre d' | ***ALERT shameless plug ALERT*** The Internet Cafe | Scranton, Pennsylvania | ASK ME FOR A COPY OF WEBPHONE!!! (717) 344-1969 | (or try www.scranton.com/webphone) ddc1@lydian.scranton.com | ****************************************************************************** URL => http://www.scranton.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 Jun 1996 03:55:21 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Dave from Scranton Subject: Re: Attacks on Bee Scientists Comments: To: Ted Fischer In-Reply-To: On Thu, 20 Jun 1996, Ted Fischer wrote: > > I do not personally know many bee scientists, but I do know some. They are > friends of the beekeepers and our industry, not enemies. They do their work > honestly and conscientiously, and do not deserve to be defamed. And then there are scientists who "advise" on movies that show swarms of bees seeking humans out at night or trying to get through doors and walls to get the people locked in the basement... ****************************************************************************** Dave D. Cawley, Maitre d' | ***ALERT shameless plug ALERT*** The Internet Cafe | Scranton, Pennsylvania | ASK ME FOR A COPY OF WEBPHONE!!! (717) 344-1969 | (or try www.scranton.com/webphone) ddc1@lydian.scranton.com | ****************************************************************************** URL => http://www.scranton.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 Jun 1996 07:31:03 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Kirk Jones Subject: Re: Yield per Super >On average, how much honey is extracted from one medium depth super? >Per shallow super? I'm looking for a practical factor that I can use >to estimate my production. I believe we get about 40# average. It depends on how tight you super the bees. If they are crowded, they will stuff the heck out of them, and you could get a little more than 40. >Also, is there a significant difference in yield using eight frames >instead of nine? We use 8 and have about the same yeild in my opinion. I don't think the queens are as likely to lay them up with the combs spread further apart. >Thanks, >John in Dallas Sleeping Bear Apiaries/Kirk Jones BeeDazzled Candleworks/Sharon Jones email b-man@aliens.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 Jun 1996 08:24:24 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Tom Allen Subject: nature of Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Tom Allen Subject: Honey and allergies. to be sure there is no one cure for allergiesand perhaps really none. However for over 60 years I suffered from asthma in all parts of the country. There were a number of things that seemed to contribute:- fatigue, stress, tree pollen (especially white pine) molds and yeasts, ragweed. When fatigued the yeast in beers and breads were sure poison. About three summers ago including this year I suddenly noticed that I had no allergies although considerable stress. I began to try to figure out what was so different. Then I realized thzt I was consuming a lot of local honey from my own hives and others on my property. Also I was getting stung pretty often with myu amateurish handling of my hives. Maybe there is more than fiction in the stories about honey introducing minute quantities of allergens into our blood stream and tending to build up immunity to local allergens.I have only travelled one year in this period but that was during the ski season so it hardly counts.But even then I could have beer and home made breads with no ill effect. So simply something had turned my life around. Any body want to exchange notes on this subject. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 Jun 1996 08:24:28 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Tom Allen Subject: Re: Feeding Syrup/Pollen For the past several years I have been making my sugar syrup on a weight basis and it seems to work well. Some formulas for volume adjust the volume of water slightly above the equivalent volume of sugar to get a 1:1 ratio in weight. Our bee association (WCBA) no longer gets a good pricing deal on sugar so we are looking at karo syrup but have to get such large volumes and have to store it warm that it looks as though we will need heated stainless steel containers in the 2000 gallon range. Anybody have a good piece of information on corn syrups and bees,or on proper storage. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 Jun 1996 08:33:51 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Aaron Morris Subject: cnsibm Tom Allen queried "What exactly is cnsibm?" CNSIBM is the name of the host computer for the BEE-L LISTSERV list. It stands for Computing and Network Services' IBM machine at the University at Albany (a branch of the State University of New York). LISTSERV is the software that manages the acceptance and distribution of articles that list members post to the list. BEE-L is one of many LISTSERV lists that exist within "cyberspace" Aaron Morris IBM System Manager (and hobby beekeeper) University at Albany ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 Jun 1996 11:18:54 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Dave Green, Eastern Pollinator Newsletter" Subject: Re: Bumbles making a strong showing! In a message dated 96-06-21 03:42:44 EDT, ddc1@scranton.com (Dave from Scranton) writes: << On Wed, 19 Jun 1996, Aaron Morris wrote: > I've noticed a lot of bumblebees this season, more than I remember in > previous years, and people with whom I share this observation agree that > there are many more bumbles in this neck of the woods (upstate New York) > this spring.<< << I've noticed this as well. The field next to my house has had numerous bumblebees, more than last year, and less than a dozen honey bees noticed in the past month. >> I don't know what the foraging range of bumblebees is, but I suspect it is not far. I've noticed in the past, when bumbles were a lot more common around here that they were quite variable, with a lot in some areas, and other areas where you didn't see many. Now you mostly don't see any, but occasionally there is a little oasis, with a lot. I found one of these oases (oasises?) yesterday. It's an old fashioned truck farm of about 20 acres, with woods all around. Within this area there were also three different kinds of solitary bees. It was just like the "good old days." Perhaps these spots will serve to restock the barren areas. But I see cotton has been planted on about half the farm (rented out), and I wonder if the the spraying will be done when bees are inactive, as it should. I think I will try to get a beeline on the bumbles and find the colony(ies), when work slows down a bit. I suspect it (they) is (are) very close to the veggies. I'll be surpised if it is more than one colony. Pollinator@aol.com Dave Green, PO Box 1200, Hemingway, SC 29554 Practical Pollination Home Page Dave & Janice Green http://users.aol.com/pollinator/polpage1.html ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 Jun 1996 10:46:31 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Victor M. Kroenke" Subject: Re: Honey and allergies. Tom Allen wrote: > > to be sure there is no one cure for allergiesand perhaps really none. > > However for over 60 years I suffered from asthma in all parts of the country. > There were a number of things that seemed to contribute:- fatigue, stress, tree > pollen (especially white pine) molds and yeasts, ragweed. When fatigued the > yeast in beers and breads were sure poison. About three summers ago including > this year I suddenly noticed that I had no allergies although considerable > stress. I began to try to figure out what was so different. Then I realized thzt > I was consuming a lot of local honey from my own hives and others on my > property. Also I was getting stung pretty often with myu amateurish handling of > my hives. Maybe there is more than fiction in the stories about honey > introducing minute quantities of allergens into our blood stream and tending to > build up immunity to local allergens.I have only travelled one year in this > period but that was during the ski season so it hardly counts.But even then I > could have beer and home made breads with no ill effect. > > So simply something had turned my life around. Any body want to exchange > notes on this subject. My experience is similar to yours. My problem was severe sinus problems with headsplitting headaches. I started beekeeping about 20 years ago and have had only minor problems since. I contributed the change to numerous stings and honey consumption. I have regular honey customers that want local honey and claim the same results. Vic Kroenke ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 Jun 1996 12:10:00 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Mike Beluch Subject: Help ! Ants all over the place....... Hello Fellow Bee-L'ers I feel REALLY stupid right about now, but here goes: I opened one of my hives today, and lo and behold, the ENTIRE top of the inner cover was white with ANT eggs, + or - about a ZILLION ants. This particular hive outer and inner cover was aquired as quite old second hand equipment. There were negligible amounts of ants in the hive itself. The bees are healthy and doing great. Can anyone tell me why the bees haven't evicted the ants? It seems with all those great previous Bee-L messages ad nauseum about ants, I didn't pay attention, 'cause I didn't have the problem. Well, I've learned my lesson. Can anyone tell me what the ratio was again of borax to 1:1 sugar syrup? (please email me this directly, I don't want to clutter the list more than I already have.) Thanks to all in advance, and keep the faith. Mike Beluch beluchm@pt.cyanmid.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 Jun 1996 12:02:12 -0600 Reply-To: allend@internode.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Allen Dick Organization: The Beekeepers Subject: Re: Help ! Ants all over the place....... > I opened one of my hives today, and lo and behold, the ENTIRE > top of the inner cover was white with ANT eggs, + or - about a > ZILLION ants. This particular hive outer and inner cover was > aquired as quite old second hand equipment. There were > negligible amounts of ants in the hive itself. The bees are > healthy and doing great. Can anyone tell me why the bees > haven't evicted the ants? well, the bees may not have access to the ants. The cracks ants go through may be too small. But, take a good look before you kill indiscriminately. Maybe your ants aren't of the types that bother the bees. Maybe they are harmless. Maybe they are just there for the heat and to scavenge whatever the bees don't need (dead bees, larvae, granulation that is thrown out), and to take advantage of the heat. 5% (max) borax is the best recommendation I've heard, but others say more. But maybe you have some new pets? Regards Allen W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper VE6CFK RR#1, Swalwell, Alberta Canada T0M 1Y0 Internet:dicka@cuug.ab.ca & allend@internode.net Honey. Bees, & Art <http://www.internode.net/~allend/> ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 Jun 1996 13:12:30 CDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ray Nabors Subject: Re[2]: Replacing Old Brood Combs As for the worth of us "Bee Scientist" we are actually a bunch of child minded adults with an interest in bees. We never really grew up so we have stayed in school way too long and now play as though what we do is work. I cannot think of anything else I would rather do. Thank you that are citizens of the united states for your support. I hope we develop some information, techniques and resistance you can all use. Now to answer this question. Old brood comb becomes smaller with use. Bees leave a layer of silk "a cacoon" within the cell after each of them pupate. Over a period of many years that cell becomes smaller and smaller. After about 6 years it produces bees that are smaller than whatever race you requeened with. Also, beekeepers work their colonies regularly if they are successful. Each comb gets a stab here and a nick there. Since we try to promote worker comb in place of abundant drone comb, our pets are always trying to find another location to put a few drones. Every time you pull out a frame and tear up some comb, they are likely to build in drone comb to replace it. In short, after about 5 years a comb should probably be replaced. If you do not replace such comb, your hives will not die for that reason but the combs do take a beating if you work the bees. If you do not work the bees then your not going to be as successful keeping them. Replacing comb is the "lesser of 2 weevils". It also helps reduce brood disease. Work the combs that are in poorest condition to the outside. Pull them out when they are emty and put in some foundation. To facilitate getting the foundation drawn right away, place it next to the brood. If you have plasticell then simply scrape it off and let them rebuild once each 5 years. If a beekeeper replaces only one comb in each chamber each season, it will take 9 or 10 years to rotate all the combs. It is a good thing to do. ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Re: Replacing Old Brood Combs Author: Discussion of Bee Biology at internet-ext Date: 6/20/96 6:57 PM At 12:11 AM 6/18/96 +0000, you wrote: > Can someone kindly point me to scientific evidence that replacing >old brood combs actually benefits the health and/or honey production >of a colony? > > I've read speculation/hearsay on this, but would actually like to >read the scientific basis. > >Thanks, >John in Dallas > Hi John I have not seen any scientific data or papers on the removal of old combs. I have read several articles and listened to several lectures which advocate rotating old combs about every 5 years. The reason given is that toxins build up in the wax combs from the chemicals we put in the hive and the pollutants that the bees bring in. I have also heard some beekeepers say that they change so that the bees won' t become to small using an ever decreasing size cell to grow in. But then another beekeeper countered, "How small is to small". I attended a seminar this past weekend and one of the lecturers said that there is evidence that bees only survived 2 to 5 years in the same nest in the wild prior to domestication. They would either die out or abscond. Then the waxworms would clean up the wax and then bees moved back in and constructed new combs. I have started removing old combs a few years ago and I feel that it has contributed to the general health of my bees. All in all I would say that in the absence of something more definitive, it is a matter of preference when or if combs are rotated. Frank Humphrey beekeeper@worldnet.att.net Frank Humphrey beekeeper@worldmet.att.net ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 Jun 1996 13:17:53 CDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ray Nabors Subject: Re: List of Flowers? I would suggest sweet clovers. Walter Kelley sells a mix of yellow and white that works great. Oder some rape oil seed or just plant collards and let them go to seed. vetch is good. Try a lime tree "Tilia" species if you are going to stay where you are a long time. Maples are good for sping build up. There is a list of honey plants in the hive and the honey bee. Check with your local university extension office to see what on that list is adapted to your area. ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: List of Flowers? Author: Discussion of Bee Biology at internet-ext Date: 6/20/96 1:52 PM Where can I obtain a list of flowers (preferably wild) that bees like? I plan on purchasing my first hive(s) for next year and it would be great to have plenty of flowers around my house for them to feed on. Since it will be months before I can put them out (about 10), I have plenty of time to read and gain as much information as I can. Thanks, Kevin (The token newbie to the group) ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 Jun 1996 13:29:26 CDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ray Nabors If you stir in very fine granules the honey will make very small crystals and become "creamed honey" ! It is still raw honey with every thing in it but it now has an extended shelf life. ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Author: Discussion of Bee Biology at internet-ext Date: 6/18/96 8:37 PM Pollen in the honey is demanded by many consumers. They don't want the fine filtering of supermarket honey, so as to save the pollen. "Raw" honey has a shorter shelf life, as it will crystallize quicker. Say Dave Does the statement above mean that crystallized raw honey is bad and should be taken off the shelf. I hope not as a pervayor of 100 % RAW Hawaii Honey I sell a lot of crystallized honey to customers who recognize crystallized honey as the only sure way to know that the honey is raw and unprocessed and better for them from a health stand point. Aloha Walter Walter & Elisabeth Patton, 27-703 A Ka' ie'ie Rd., Papaikou HI.,96781 Ph./Fax. 808-964-5401 E-Mail hihoney@ilhawaii Beekeeper and Bed & Breakfast Owner in Hawaii http://www.alohamall.com/hamakua/hihoney.htm http://www.alohamall.com/hamakua/beeware.htm http://www.alohamall.com/hamakua/lamalani.htm ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 Jun 1996 13:14:03 CDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ray Nabors Subject: Re[2]: List of Flowers? Where are you? ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Re: List of Flowers? Author: Discussion of Bee Biology at internet-ext Date: 6/20/96 3:38 PM >Where can I obtain a list of flowers (preferably wild) that bees like? I >plan on purchasing my first hive(s) for next year and it would be great to >have plenty of flowers around my house for them to feed on. Since it will >be months before I can put them out (about 10), I have plenty of time to >read and gain as much information as I can. > interesting that you should mention this. i have been stalling putting in my hives for the last 3 years and finally decided to get on with it. the normal excuses, not enough time and not enough time. planted lots of things that they supposedly like. i'm NOT SURE where they are going, the bees, but it's not in this yard, 1.75 acres, or the neighbors yards. everyone says they never see them. however, in six weeks three hives produced 4+ gallons of honey and pulled the comb from foundation. they mut know something that they are not sharing with me. yea, we talk every day! stanton * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * From the desk of Stanton A Hershman FIDONET: 1:3620/21@fidonet.org INTERNET: Phoenix@aug.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * MADNESS TAKES ITS TOLL. PLEASE HAVE EXACT CHANGE ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 Jun 1996 13:26:28 +0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Bill Painter Subject: Best time of day to dig into the hive What is everyone's opinion on the best time of day to go into the hive? I have one hive that is somewhat aggressive about defending the home! I know that right before a approching storm is not a good time and that I should always take off my black watch. I have noticed that night seems to be ok as I have taken frame after frame out and not had a problem, but I can't see much that way, and Im not sure if its the darkness or the cooler air that is calming them down. Durring the day I can take the lid off and watch them line up on the top of the frames ready to scramble at the first sight of a bare arm! Thanks ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 Jun 1996 14:58:44 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Kevin Dawson Subject: Re[2]: List of Flowers? >Where are you? I'm in Atlanta, Georgia and as far as I know we are a zone 7 area. New and improved with MORE FLAVOR!, Kevin. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 Jun 1996 13:29:46 PDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Adrian Wenner Subject: Re: Sugar syrup for feeding Last week I sent out the following message and received some very interesting input: ******* In the past several weeks we have had various references to making up sugar syrup for feeding bees. The above example switches from a weight and volume ratio to a 1:1 ratio. The question: "When someone says 1:1, does that mean each component by weight (1# of sugar to 1# of water), by volume (1 liter of sugar to 1 liter of water), or by a combination of the two measures?" Which is meant makes a great deal of difference in the sugar concentration. By the context of the messages, it appears that people are using equal VOLUMES of sugar and water. If that is NOT true in your operations, would you please send your response to me directly rather than to BEE-L (unless you feel your reply is of general interest). ****** Now I would like those of you willing to let me know DIRECTLY on e-mail (not over the network) whether you use 1:1 sugar and water by VOLUME as your 1:1 ratio. Thanks in advance. Adrian *************************************************************** * Adrian Wenner E-Mail wenner@lifesci.lscf.ucsb.edu * * Dept.Ecol.,Evol.,& Mar.Biol. Office Phone (805) 893-2838 * * University of California Lab Phone (805) 893-2675 * * Santa Barbara, CA 93106 FAX (805) 893-8062 * * * *************************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 Jun 1996 17:42:04 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Stanton A Hershman Subject: Re: Best time of day to dig into the hive > What is everyone's opinion on the best time of day to go into the hive? >I have one hive that is somewhat aggressive about defending the home! I >know that right before a approching storm is not a good time and that I >should always take off my black watch. > I have noticed that night seems to be ok as I have taken frame after >frame out and not had a problem, but I can't see much that way, and Im not >sure if its the darkness or the cooler air that is calming them down. > Durring the day I can take the lid off and watch them line up on the >top of the frames ready to scramble at the first sight of a bare arm! > i'm in ne florida where it is pretty hot by this time of the year. i have found that the best time for me to work my hives is at 2:30 in the afternoon. the sun is at it's hottest and it seems that most of the girls are out in the field working! most of the time i can work them with just a smoker and no veil, yes, not always the smartest thing to do. however, they don't bother me and only once in awhile if i push too hard does one express it's opinion. however, i have bursitis (sp) in both shoulders and the stings help greatly to relieve the pain. stanton * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * From the desk of Stanton A Hershman FIDONET: 1:3620/21@fidonet.org INTERNET: Phoenix@aug.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * MADNESS TAKES ITS TOLL. PLEASE HAVE EXACT CHANGE ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 Jun 1996 14:57:46 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Marcia Sinclair Subject: Breaking up is hard to do I'm getting so much terrific advice from all of you, I'm sure you can help me on this one. My sweet little queen, newly acquired this spring as part of a nuc, packed her little bags, rounded up a bunch of her best gal friends and swarmed away. I watched them in a big fir tree in front of my house over the course of two days, but they were up too high for me to retrieve them and apparently didn't like the hive box I set out for them. I tried tapping on it. Maybe I picked the wrong tempo or have a lousy sense of rhythm. Fortunately she left behind 5 or 6 queen cells. Since there were still plenty of bees remaining in the hive and they have an ample store of nectar, I thought it might be interesting to split the colony that remains into two. I've placed brood and queen cells in each box surrounded by frames full of nectar and honey. I have partially drawn comb, foundation and filled comb in boxes on top of each. The original colony is going strong with field bees commuting in and out when weather permits (this is western Oregon after all). But the new colony has only a few slightly disoriented field bees coming and going. I know the older field bees will return to the original colony, so this new upstart colony isn't getting much field action. Should I attempt to intervene in some way? Will they get rolling when some of the bees mature to the field? What else should I be watching for? Any and all advice is welcomed. Thanks for your help! Marcia in Portland ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 Jun 1996 19:03:12 -0300 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Eunice D. Wonnacott" Subject: Re: Feeding Syrup/Pollen >At 07:29 6/19/96 PDT, you wrote: >> In the past several weeks we have had various references to making up >>sugar syrup for feeding bees. The above example switches from a weight and >>volume ratio to a 1:1 ratio. The question: "When someone says 1:1, does that >>mean each component by weight (1# of sugar to 1# of water), by volume (1 liter >>of sugar to 1 liter of water), or by a combination of the two measures?" >> >> Which is meant makes a great deal of difference in the sugar concentration. >> >> By the context of the messages, it appears that people are using equal >>VOLUMES of sugar and water. If that is NOT true in your operations, would >>you please send your response to me directly rather than to BEE-L (unless >>you feel your reply is of general interest). >> >> Thanks in advance. >> >> Adrian >> >>*************************************************************** >>* Adrian Wenner E-Mail wenner@lifesci.lscf.ucsb.edu * >>* Dept.Ecol.,Evol.,& Mar.Biol. Office Phone (805) 893-2838 * >>* University of California Lab Phone (805) 893-2675 * >>* Santa Barbara, CA 93106 FAX (805) 893-8062 * >>* * >>*************************************************************** >> > >I don't know about anyone else, but here's how I mix it. I place an entire >4 lb. bag of sugar in a gallon jar and then fill it the rest of the way up >with water. The sugar fills the jar approximately half way up, so I would >suppose, using my method, it would be by volume. Someone else will need to >do the calculating. I work second shift and it's 2:00 AM (bed-time for me) >and my mind has shut down for the night. > >Other's may do it differently. Hope this helps with the question. > Hope his helps: The way I do it is essentially opposite to the above: fill your container half full of HOT water, then fill with sugar. The higher temperature helps in dissolving the sugar.> Eunice >Cheer'zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz! > > >Mike Wallace >Sar Shalom Apiary >McKinney, Texas USA >"Out of the heart, the mouth speaks." > > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 Jun 1996 15:01:20 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Marcia Sinclair Subject: Re: Feeding Syrup/Pollen Powdered corn sugar is used for home beer brewing. It would seem that you might be able to get it in volume and eliminate the need for heated storage. Don't know that it will save you any money over sucrose, but might be worth looking into. At 08:24 AM 6/21/96 -0400, you wrote: >For the past several years I have been making my sugar syrup on a weight >basis and it seems to work well. Some formulas for volume adjust the volume >of water slightly above the equivalent volume of sugar to get a 1:1 ratio in >weight. > >Our bee association (WCBA) no longer gets a good pricing deal on sugar so we are >looking at karo syrup but have to get such large volumes and have to store it >warm that it looks as though we will need heated stainless steel containers in >the 2000 gallon range. > >Anybody have a good piece of information on corn syrups and bees,or on proper >storage. > > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 Jun 1996 19:06:12 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Bill Miller Subject: Re: Feeding Syrup/Pollen Should sugar syrup concentrations be made by weight or volume? Making up sugar syrup concentrations for bee feeding isn't analytical chemistry. Weght or volume makes little difference. Personally, I use volume. W. G. Miller Gaithersburg, MD ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 Jun 1996 20:18:01 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Bill Miller Subject: Re: Help ! Ants all over the place....... How I control ants: 1. If you have spare inner covers and or outer covers, replace the ones full of ants with spares. Leave the old ones outside for a day or two, and usually the ant colonies will abandon them. 2. Make sure bees can get into the space between the inner and outer cover. Put sticks between then, if necessary. 3. Seal any cracks/holes in the inner and outer covers with propolis (just as the bees would if they could get to the holes). W G. Miller Gaithersburg, MD ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 22 Jun 1996 00:28:06 GMT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Franklin D. Humphrey Sr." Subject: Re: Feeding Syrup/Pollen Hi All I think this discussion has pointed out something I read a long time ago about mixing syrup for bees. The mixture does not have to be exact as long as attention is paid to their needs at any given time. The bees are used to nectar having different water contents. They prefer high water content in hot weather because it aids in hive cooling. Lower water content is used for rearing brood and very low for storage. If heavy syrup is given and the bees need it for food they will dilute it with water. If light syrup is given, they will dry it enough for food and if they don't need all of if they will dry it enough to store. To illustrate, for 1:1 I use a 3 gallons of sugar and 3 gallons of water. Yield is about 4 1/2 gallons of syrup. I use this for spring feeding. During our August dearth, I mix 6 gallons of sugar with 3 gallons of water. Yield is about 5 gallons. The bee take this in and use it to draw new comb and store for winter. When they are well along in the drawing process. I start adding Fumidil and let them store it for the winter. I don't think there is any right way or wrong way to mix so long as you are in the ball park. The bees will ultimately adjust the water content for themselves. Frank Humphrey beekeeper@worldnet.att.net Frank Humphrey beekeeper@worldmet.att.net ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 22 Jun 1996 00:28:39 GMT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Franklin D. Humphrey Sr." Subject: Re: Honey and allergies. At 05:46 PM 6/21/96 +0000, you wrote: >Tom Allen wrote: >> >> to be sure there is no one cure for allergiesand perhaps really none. >> >> However for over 60 years I suffered from asthma in all parts of the country. >> There were a number of things that seemed to contribute:- fatigue, stress, tree >> pollen (especially white pine) molds and yeasts, ragweed. When fatigued the >> yeast in beers and breads were sure poison. About three summers ago including >> this year I suddenly noticed that I had no allergies although considerable >> stress. I began to try to figure out what was so different. Then I realized >> thzt I was consuming a lot of local honey from my own hives and others on my >> property. Also I was getting stung pretty often with myu amateurish handling of >> my hives. Maybe there is more than fiction in the stories about honey >> introducing minute quantities of allergens into our blood stream and tending to >> build up immunity to local allergens.I have only travelled one year in this >> period but that was during the ski season so it hardly counts.But even then I >> could have beer and home made breads with no ill effect. >> >> So simply something had turned my life around. Any body want to exchange >> notes on this subject. > >My experience is similar to yours. My problem was severe sinus problems >with headsplitting headaches. I started beekeeping about 20 years ago >and have had only minor problems since. I contributed the change to >numerous stings and honey consumption. I have regular honey customers >that want local honey and claim the same results. > >Vic Kroenke > For years I've heard people say that raw local honey taken daily would help allergies. Recently I've been hearing that some allergist are advising their patients to take raw local honey each day. I heard all this and took it with the proverbial grain of salt. I have a vanity tag on my pickup that reads B KEEPR and recently, I was in a drive thru line waiting to be served and this lady came up and started banging on my window. When I asked what she wanted, she asked how soon I could sell her some unfiltered honey. I told her I had some in the truck that had been strained. She said she was a nurse in an allergist office and he recommended raw unfiltered honey produced within 50 miles, for pollen allergies. She even wanted me to save 3 quarts straight from the extractor without straining. I now have several customers like this one and get new ones all the time. So maybe there is something to this. A lot of the old remedies are starting to be proven true. Frank Humphrey beekeeper@worldnet.att.net Frank Humphrey beekeeper@worldmet.att.net ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 22 Jun 1996 00:28:38 GMT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Franklin D. Humphrey Sr." Subject: Re: Feeding Syrup/Pollen At 12:24 PM 6/21/96 +0000, you wrote: >For the past several years I have been making my sugar syrup on a weight >basis and it seems to work well. Some formulas for volume adjust the volume >of water slightly above the equivalent volume of sugar to get a 1:1 ratio in >weight. > >Our bee association (WCBA) no longer gets a good pricing deal on sugar so we are >looking at karo syrup but have to get such large volumes and have to store it >warm that it looks as though we will need heated stainless steel containers in >the 2000 gallon range. > >Anybody have a good piece of information on corn syrups and bees,or on proper >storage. > Hi Tom You might check with a restaurant supply house. Most carry corn syrup in 60 lb. containers. If your association buys in quantity, you may get a good deal. A word of caution. I have bought some corn syrup locally that is thick enough to cut with a knife and taste ok but the bees won't touch it. My daughter gets me some form a different supplier and they take it up just fine. There must be different processes used to refine the syrup and some leave something that the bees don't like. Frank Humphrey beekeeper@worldnet.att.net Frank Humphrey beekeeper@worldmet.att.net ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 Jun 1996 20:13:35 -0600 Reply-To: allend@internode.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Allen Dick Organization: The Beekeepers Subject: Re: Feeding Syrup/Pollen > Our bee association (WCBA) no longer gets a good pricing deal on > sugar so we are looking at karo syrup but have to get such large > volumes and have to store it warm that it looks as though we will > need heated stainless steel containers in the 2000 gallon range. > > Anybody have a good piece of information on corn syrups and bees,or > on proper storage. Call Stuart at mann lake and have a chat. We just got a semi from him (again). We just use four 1250 gallon agricultural poly tanks (We have 3.6 per semi after dilution) and fill them with 6 inches of water before receiving the load. Filling from the pumper truck stirs it up, and at lower concentration, granulation is no longer a problem. The bottom of the tank tends to be bit thicker unless you do some additional stirring, but we store it outside and it *snowed* the day before yesterday! Regards Allen W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper VE6CFK RR#1, Swalwell, Alberta Canada T0M 1Y0 Internet:dicka@cuug.ab.ca & allend@internode.net Honey. Bees, & Art <http://www.internode.net/~allend/> ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 Jun 1996 19:17:05 -0600 Reply-To: allend@internode.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Allen Dick Organization: The Beekeepers Subject: Re: Bumbles making a strong showing! > I think I will try to get a beeline on the bumbles and find the > colony(ies), when work slows down a bit. I only tried to follow a BB home once. After about 20 minutes of watching it examine every flower in a flowerbed several times, I got bored and quit. What's the secret? Regards Allen W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper VE6CFK RR#1, Swalwell, Alberta Canada T0M 1Y0 Internet:dicka@cuug.ab.ca & allend@internode.net Honey. Bees, & Art <http://www.internode.net/~allend/> ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 Jun 1996 20:31:54 -0600 Reply-To: allend@internode.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Allen Dick Organization: The Beekeepers Subject: Re: Feeding Syrup/Pollen > You might check with a restaurant supply house. Most carry corn > syrup in 60 lb. containers. If your association buys in quantity, > you may get a good deal. A word of caution. I have bought some > corn syrup locally that is thick enough to cut with a knife and > taste ok but the bees won't touch it. My daughter gets me some form > a different supplier and they take it up just fine. There must be > different processes used to refine the syrup and some leave > something that the bees don't like. Very Right! And there are some that are toxic to bees! The effects are not immediately apparent either, so Please check with your local extension agent for approved brands and types. In Western Canada last winter, tens of thousands of hives were lost in problems that are attributed to substandard syrup fed. Regards Allen W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper VE6CFK RR#1, Swalwell, Alberta Canada T0M 1Y0 Internet:dicka@cuug.ab.ca & allend@internode.net Honey. Bees, & Art <http://www.internode.net/~allend/> ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 Jun 1996 23:19:42 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Michael L. Wallace" Subject: Re: Breaking up is hard to do At 02:57 6/21/96 -0700, you wrote: >---------------------- Information from the mail header ----------------------- >Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Poster: >Marcia Sinclair Subject: Breaking up is hard to do >------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > >I'm getting so much terrific advice from all of you, I'm sure you can help >me on this one. My sweet little queen, newly acquired this spring as part of a >nuc, packed her little bags, rounded up a bunch of her best gal friends and >swarmed away. I watched them in a big fir tree in front of my house over the >course of two days, but they were up too high for me to retrieve them and >apparently didn't like the hive box I set out for them. I tried tapping on it. >Maybe I picked the wrong tempo or have a lousy sense of rhythm. Fortunately she >left behind 5 or 6 queen cells. Since there were still plenty of bees remaining >in the hive and they have an ample store of nectar, I thought it might be >interesting to split the colony that remains into two. I've placed brood and >queen cells in each box surrounded by frames full of nectar and honey. I have >partially drawn comb, foundation and filled comb in boxes on top of each. The >original colony is going strong with field bees commuting in and out when weather >permits (this is western Oregon after all). But the new colony has only a few >slightly disoriented field bees coming and going. I know the older field bees >will return to the original colony, so this new upstart colony isn't getting much >field action. Should I attempt to intervene in some way? Will they get rolling >when some of the bees mature to the field? What else should I be watching for? >Any and all advice is welcomed. Thanks for your help! > >Marcia in Portland > I suggest that you watch the "weak" colony very closely. If it looks like they're going to dwindle down to nothing, then I suggest introducing them back into the strong colony using the "newspaper" method. Take the lid off of the strong colony. Lay a sheet of newspaper over the top of the hive, so that it covers it completely. Using your hive tool, make some slits in the paper (not big enough to allow a bee through, just odor). By the time they eat all the paper away (about 5 to 7 days) they will accept each other. Regards, Mike Wallace Sar Shalom Apiary McKinney, Texas USA "Out of the heart, the mouth speaks." ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 22 Jun 1996 16:05:20 GMT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Eric Abell Subject: Re: Breaking up is hard to do >>I'm getting so much terrific advice from all of you, I'm sure you can help >>me on this one. My sweet little queen, newly acquired this spring as part of a >>nuc, packed her little bags, rounded up a bunch of her best gal friends and >>swarmed away. I watched them in a big fir tree in front of my house over the >>course of two days, but they were up too high for me to retrieve them and >>apparently didn't like the hive box I set out for them. I tried tapping on it. >>Maybe I picked the wrong tempo or have a lousy sense of rhythm. Fortunately she >>left behind 5 or 6 queen cells. Since there were still plenty of bees remaining >>in the hive and they have an ample store of nectar, I thought it might be >>interesting to split the colony that remains into two. I've placed brood and >>queen cells in each box surrounded by frames full of nectar and honey. I have >>partially drawn comb, foundation and filled comb in boxes on top of each. The >>original colony is going strong with field bees commuting in and out when >>weather permits (this is western Oregon after all). But the new colony has only >>a few slightly disoriented field bees coming and going. I know the older field >>bees will return to the original colony, so this new upstart colony isn't >>getting much field action. Should I attempt to intervene in some way? Will they >>get rolling when some of the bees mature to the field? What else should I be >>watching for? Any and all advice is welcomed. Thanks for your help! >> >>Marcia in Portland >> Here are some ideas to try. Lets call the strong hive A and the week colony B. Switch locations and allow field bees to return to B. Move some combs of emerging brood from A to B. If A is strong enough try both of the above at the same time. Any of these manipulations will weaken A and strengthen B so be certain that A is strong enough to give up some bees and brood and be certain that B has a viable queen and, if you move brood, that they have the bees to care for it. If A is not yet strong enough to donate some bees and brood to B you might want to wait awhile. B may not improve much but when A is a booming colony you can give B a big boost. Good luck. Eric Abell Gibbons, Alberta Canada (403) 998 3143 eabell@compusmart.ab.ca ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 22 Jun 1996 16:05:27 GMT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Eric Abell Subject: Filtered honey > > > Pollen in the honey is demanded by many consumers. They don't want the >fine filtering of supermarket honey, so as to save the pollen. "Raw" honey >has a shorter shelf life, as it will crystallize quicker. > > >Say Dave > Does the statement above mean that crystallized raw honey is bad > and should be taken off the shelf. > I hope not as a pervayor of 100 % RAW Hawaii Honey I sell a > lot of crystallized honey to customers who recognize crystallized > honey as the only sure way to know that the honey is raw and >unprocessed and better for >them from a health stand point. >Aloha Walter > I agree that 'raw' honey crystallized faster but this has nothing to do with the shelf life unless it is identified as liquid honey. I have no objection to customers believing that crystallized honey is the only way to know that it is raw and unprocessed but lets be clear that this is not factual. Surely it depends upon what is meant by 'processing' but given enough time most (and perhaps all) honey will crystalize. Eric Abell Gibbons, Alberta Canada (403) 998 3143 eabell@compusmart.ab.ca ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 22 Jun 1996 11:36:17 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: David Eyre Subject: Re: Breaking up is hard to do Marcia in Portland wrote >I thought it might be interesting to split the colony that remains into two. I've >placed brood and queen cells in each box surrounded by frames full of nectar and >honey. I have partially drawn comb, foundation and filled comb in boxes on top of >each. The original colony is going strong with field bees commuting in and out >when weather permits (this is western Oregon after all). But the new colony has >only a few slightly disoriented field bees coming and going. I know the older >field bees will return to the original colony, so this new upstart colony isn't >getting much field action. Should I attempt to intervene in some way? Will they >get rolling when some of the bees mature to the field? What else should I be >watching for? Any and all advice is welcomed. Thanks for your help! In my opinion you have done the right thing. You could have left them to do it for themselves, but you wouldn't have got a honey crop. So make an increase, which you have done. We should plan for next year, this year. The second or smaller hive will tend to decline, because the field bees have left and gone back to the main hive. I would add one frame of emerging bees to the smaller hive, look for ragged holes in the center of the frame. In a few days add another. When the queen emerges she will have young bees to help feed the new eggs. It is imperative you feed that hive. The field bees have left, there is no nectar coming in, so they won't do anything. I've seen little nucs almost starve to death, as they will not open capped stores. Or feed a little and often 1-1 sugar syrup, or break the cappings and then see a difference. Don't have too much space over brood, in other words don't have empty boxes on a hive which the bees can't occupy. It seems to hold them back, it is almost better to keep them compressed. A small nuc in a small hive will build faster, than a small nuc in a big hive!! A final point, do not use smoke on a small baby nuc, you don't need it, you only have young bees with immature stingers!! **************************************************** * David Eyre 9 Progress Drive, Unit 2, * * The Beeworks, Orillia, Ontario, L3V 6H1. * * beeworks@muskoka.net 705-326-7171 * * http://www.muskoka.net/~beeworks * * Agents for: E H Thorne & B J Sherriff UK. * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 22 Jun 1996 12:46:48 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Tim Peters Subject: Re: Filtered honey At 11:12 AM 6/22/96 -0500, you wrote: "Raw" honey >>has a shorter shelf life, as it will crystallize quicker. >> >> >>Say Dave >> Does the statement above mean that crystallized raw honey is bad >> and should be taken off the shelf. >> I hope not as a pervayor of 100 % RAW Hawaii Honey I sell a >> lot of crystallized honey to customers who recognize crystallized >> honey as the only sure way to know that the honey is raw and >>unprocessed and better for >>them from a health stand point. >>Aloha Walter >> >I agree that 'raw' honey crystallized faster but this has nothing to do with the >shelf life unless it is identified as liquid honey. > >I have no objection to customers believing that crystallized honey is the >only way to know that it is raw and unprocessed but lets be clear that this >is not factual. Surely it depends upon what is meant by 'processing' but >given enough time most (and perhaps all) honey will crystalize. > Hello to All: I have a question for the group on this subject. As with many words the term "raw" seems to have various definitions. In this neck of the woods, any product that is "raw", "natural" or "organic" is highly prized by a large number of people. I would like to advertise to these folks that my honey is, indeed, "raw". I'm not sure I can do that though because I filter my extracted honey twice. The first filter is done when it is drawn from the extractor. The mesh size is small enough to snag the largest bits of flotsum but not so small that it slows down the process. I allow the honey to rest in covered plastic pails for a couple of days and then skim whatever has risen to the top. The second filter is done before bottling. I use a fine mesh nylon bag. This step ensures a very clear jar of honey to begin with. Now in my mind, the honey is still "raw" because I have not heat pasturized it. To some folk, who consider themselves expert on "organic" food, I have altered the natural state of the honey and therefore it is no longer raw. What is everyone's opinion on this? Last year's crop crystallized fairly quick, but in small granules and throughout the jar, so that it resembled creamed honey. As mentioned above, a lot of people think that a crystallized jar of honey means that it is "raw", although this is not necessarily so. Crystallized honey left on the shelf at the grocery store doesn't seem to move, week after week; if the store leaves it on the shelf at all. I think crystallized honey has bad PR and it very difficult to break the uninformed's perceptions. I tried selling my honey after it crystallized, and even though some people bought it, I think it was becuase they were being courteous and polite. I worry that these friends may have tossed it when they got home, thinking they wouldn't like the honey in that state. I ended up heat pasturizing (only to 150 deg) my remaining stock to sell at Christmas. I did sell out and left my customers clamoring for more. Tim Peters, Kirby VT tpeters@kingcon.com KirBee Apiary, Bear Bait Honey I rather be flying! ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 22 Jun 1996 20:08:40 +0200 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Katedra hydinarstva a malych hosp.zvierat AF" Subject: Re: MITE INFESTATION???? In-Reply-To: <2.2.32.19960617212031.00718600@mail.cruzio.com> from "Baubo" at Jun 17, 96 02:20:31 pm > > I'm certain that many of you are aware that there is a major mite > infestation of bees, and have probably discussed it here ad nauseum. > > I would like to do an article about it for a magazine I'm affiliated with. > Does anyone have information on it? (I'm brand new to this list so wouldn't > know). I say a segment on the news about it last night and it had me concerned > enough to join this list. I did a websearch but may not be looking in the right > place. > > This is affecting all populations both wild and domesticated, yes? > And what do we do? > In Her Erotic Service! > > Psyche > > ----------------------------- > > "Eros is best served by erotica when it is free. Eros is best served when > erotica is made art. Eros is best served when erotica arouses and outrages, when > it transcends culture." > > Madame T.'s quote as written by Terrence McKennas on > http://www.levity.com/eschaton/hypersextext3.html, the "Web of Eros" > > @Wear a blue ribbon today to show your solidarity for freedom of @speech on the > Internet! > Try also http://afnet.uniag.sk/~chlebo/INDEX/varroa.html "Varroa Links" Some links with Varroa, maybye it's enough for info. With regards Robo, Slovakia. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 22 Jun 1996 15:23:47 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Marcia Sinclair Subject: now I'm really confused Just yesterday, I asked for advice on splitting my colony that had several queen cells. Well, I got some great advice from you all, was watching my new little nuc improve with workers heading to and fro and my original colony still looking prosperous. This afternoon., the original colony took to the skies. Yep, I have ANOTHER swarm high in a fir tree.Meanwhile, the outside of their hive box is coated with bees with their rears in the air and fanning furiously. What am I doing wrong? Last season I lost my first colony to a late season swarm. I started with a fresh nuc this spring that was treated for mites before I picked it up. I've done everything I have read, heard and/or can think of to keep these gals contented, and yet I've got another buzzing mob in my tree. I'm about ready to can this here hobby and admire those who find success at it. Help! ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 22 Jun 1996 19:05:42 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Albert W. Needham" Subject: Re: Filtered honey Please excuse the interruption: Tpeters--everytime I send a message to you it bounces back to me-"Host Unknown"-I don't know why. Please privately e-mail your mailing address. Thanks Al Needham alwine@aol.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 22 Jun 1996 23:39:36 GMT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Franklin D. Humphrey Sr." Subject: Re: Filtered honey > Hello to All: > > I have a question for the group on this subject. > > As with many words the term "raw" seems to have various > definitions. In this neck of the woods, any product that > is "raw", "natural" or "organic" is highly prized by a > large number of people. I would like to advertise to these > folks that my honey is, indeed, "raw". I'm not sure I can > do that though because I filter my extracted honey twice. > The first filter is done when it is drawn from the extractor. The > mesh size is small enough to snag the largest bits of flotsum > but not so small that it slows down the process. I allow the > honey to rest in covered plastic pails for a couple of days > and then skim whatever has risen to the top. The second filter > is done before bottling. I use a fine mesh nylon bag. This step > ensures a very clear jar of honey to begin with. > > Now in my mind, the honey is still "raw" because I have not > heat pasturized it. To some folk, who consider themselves > expert on "organic" food, I have altered the natural state > of the honey and therefore it is no longer raw. > > What is everyone's opinion on this? > > Last year's crop crystallized fairly quick, but in small granules > and throughout the jar, so that it resembled creamed honey. > As mentioned above, a lot of people think that a crystallized > jar of honey means that it is "raw", although this is not > necessarily so. Crystallized honey left on the shelf at the > grocery store doesn't seem to move, week after week; if the > store leaves it on the shelf at all. I think crystallized > honey has bad PR and it very difficult to break the uninformed's > perceptions. I tried selling my honey after it crystallized, > and even though some people bought it, I think it was becuase they > were being courteous and polite. I worry that these friends may > have tossed it when they got home, thinking they wouldn't like > the honey in that state. I ended up heat pasturizing (only to 150 deg) my > remaining stock to sell at Christmas. I did sell out and left my > customers clamoring for more. > >Tim Peters, Kirby VT >tpeters@kingcon.com >KirBee Apiary, Bear Bait Honey >I rather be flying! > Hi Tim You have just backed into a subject that has caused an awful lot of discussion and a some harsh words over the past few year. There is no standard for honey labeling. None!!!!!!! Some states in the US are starting to write their own since the USDA is so politically stymied. Here is the problem. The large packers don't want any standards so they can continue to label their honey as natural or raw. They have fought labeling laws every time they come up and lets face it they have the money to give the politicians. Most honey that is on the shelf today is filtered to the point that it is only a honey flavored sweetener. Some honeys are sold a pure "Clover, Sourwood etc." when in face they are only required to have 51% of the Clover or Sourwood. Most of the beekeepers around here label their honey the way I do. I label it as Frank's Natural Honey. I also add a statement about crystallization. I use a bucket filter to catch bits of was and other debris in the honey. I then allow the honey to settle for two weeks at room temperature. I then bottle the honey down to about 3 inches in the tank. This last I run through a stocking and label it as strained. Occasionally, I have had honey to crystallize and if I pasteurize it I add that to the label. All these add on labels can be printed on the computer printer or some people use rubber stamps. Until there are some labeling laws enacted, there are no illegal labeling but most of us small beekeepers are into a market that will can be ruined by deceptive labeling. Frank Humphrey beekeeper@worldnet.att.net Frank Humphrey beekeeper@worldmet.att.net ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 22 Jun 1996 20:44:20 +0000 Reply-To: James.Peterson.2@m.k12.ut.us Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: James Peterson Organization: UtahLink Subject: honey extractor I have only received two messages on my pleading for information on what materiel that the law ( what number ? ) allows to be used in an extractor. I have only taken " Bee Culture" for about a year , but go to a University library ofter and peruse the other periodicals. I have not seen any articles on this subject before. If any of you can give me some ref. on the above subjects , I would appreciate it. Could I please poll the bee list on what material their extractors are made of. The material that contacts the honey. I have thought of having my extractor chromed by the local bumper chrome company. I thought of this because it is the chrome content in stainless steel that gives it its corrosion resistance qualities. My bee equipment supplier (stainless equiptment) told me that there are a lot of bee keepers that are not using stainless. Please help me make a decision. James Peterson Ph.D. If it is to be, It is up to me. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 22 Jun 1996 21:01:17 +0000 Reply-To: James.Peterson.2@m.k12.ut.us Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: James Peterson Organization: UtahLink Subject: Re: Filtered honey Frank, What is a bucket filter? I used my wifes kitchen strainer and then i noticed that it was about the same as window screen and built a bigger on by using new screen. It worked great and the honey is great with out any further processing. I wonder why any further process like nylon stocking is needed. James Peterson if it is to be, it is up to me.