Received: from [169.226.1.21] by relay.internode.net (SMTPD32-3.02) id A835D6400CE; Tue, 12 Nov 1996 13:04:05 -0700 Received: from CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU by CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU (IBM VM SMTP V2R2) with BSMTP id 1310; Tue, 12 Nov 96 15:02:41 EST Received: from CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU (NJE origin LISTSERV@ALBNYVM1) by CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU (LMail V1.2c/1.8c) with BSMTP id 2374; Tue, 12 Nov 1996 15:02:33 -0500 Date: Tue, 12 Nov 1996 15:02:27 -0500 From: "L-Soft list server at ALBNYVM1 (1.8b)" Subject: File: "BEE-L LOG9607D" To: "W. Allen Dick" X-UIDL: 382 Status: U X-PMFLAGS: 33554560 0 ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 21 Jul 1996 12:08:55 GMT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Franklin D. Humphrey Sr" Subject: Re: use of unfiltered honey for the treatment of allergies At 05:07 PM 7/18/96 +0000, you wrote: >Recently there has been discussion of the use of raw honey in the treatment of >allergies. Ostensibly the ingestion of allergens in the honey results in >decreased allgergies (e.g. hay fever . . .) > >We are interested in beginning such a study and have done a pretty thorough >search of the literature. Our search did not yield any papers that directly >dealt with this problem. > >We would really appreciate any information that members of this list might have >regarding personal experience, references, knowledge of others that may be >involved in this type of research. > >Thanks! > >Jay Jones >Univeristy of La Verne >La Verne, CA 91750 >909 593-3511 x4040 >jonesj@ulvacs.ulaverne.edu > Hi Jay I had a number of customers who wanted raw honey for their allergies. These people, for the most part, told me that had always been told that consuming local raw honey helped to combat the effects of hay fever and other pollen related allergies. Others, including one nurse who works in an allergist office, told me that the doctors say that consuming honey produced within 50 miles, helps to produce a tolerance to those local pollens thus reducing the effects of allergies. Sounds logical to me. Frank Humphrey beekeeper@worldnet.att.net ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 21 Jul 1996 12:08:55 GMT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Franklin D. Humphrey Sr" Subject: Re: Baggie Feeder At 03:25 AM 7/19/96 +0000, you wrote: >Will you please send me address of source of the baggy feeder.!! > >How many do you use per hive? AT what point do you put them? about the= brood >chamber? above the honey supers? VArious? How much liquid do they hold? > Hi Tom I have been using Baggie for a full season now and I will never go back to anything else. There are no drowned bees and so far no robbing. =20 The Baggie feeder is simply a small super,(2 =BD" to 3") placed on top of= the hive. I have found that an empty shallow super works just as well. Into this are placed Zip lock bags filled with syrup. Care must be taken to insure that the bags are not overfilled and that they are completely sealed. I use only heavy duty freezer bags. Quart bags will hold approximately 1 = =BD pints, gallon bags hold 2 =BD to 3 quarts of syrup. The bags can be placed directly on top of the frames or on top of a queen excluder. Small 2 to 3 inch slits are cut in the bag to give the bees access to the syrup. These are cut crosswise of the hive if the hive is leaning forward. A small amount of the syrup is squeezed out and allowed to run down onto the bees so that the bees know it is up there. =20 The bees readily accept this feeder and in fact when bags are being replaced, I have bees climbing on the bags before I get them set down properly and start removing the syrup as soon as the slits are cut. I recently removed a swarm of bees from a dead tree in a lady=92s yard and= ended up with about 2 gallons of honey that was contaminated with sawdust and other debris. I decided to feed it back to this colony and used a baggie feeder placed on top of drawn combs. They immediately removed this honey from the feeder, put it in the super and sealed it. They were getting enough nectar to draw combs and did not need the honey. The baggie feeder is a little tricky to use the first time but it is well worth the persistence it may take to get used to it. It is by far the best method I have ever used to feed bees. =20 Original baggie feeders are available from Brushy Mountain Bee Farm (800) 233-7929 Frank Humphrey beekeeper@worldnet.att.net ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 21 Jul 1996 17:35:36 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "" Subject: Re: use of unfiltered honey for the treatment of allergies Hi Jay, I have a neighbor who is also a honey customer of mine. Her Dr. told her to reduce her intake of sweets. So this year she ate no honey. Her allergies ,which have not bothered her in 3yrs. ( 3 yrs ago she moved here and started buying honey from me) came back in full force this year. I also have several neighbors who buy honey for their allergies. Mary ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 22 Jul 1996 23:58:47 +1300 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Peter Bray Subject: Re: use of unfiltered honey for the treatment of allergies To be honest I am sceptical about some aspects of this subject - or perhaps there are mechanisms at work here that are not immediately obvious. Most pollen related allergies/hayfever are induced by wind pollinated plants, e.g. grasses etc.in the Spring and Ragweed in the late summer and Autumn. The makeup of these pollens is greatly different to that of insect pollinated plants. Insect collected pollen (most of the pollen found in honey - > 99%+) tends to be larger, more protein and actually provides a food source for the gathering insect. Most have usually evolved with their pollinator(s) of choice and are attractive and nutritionally useful to these. The references about a 50 mile radius for "local honey" are also open to question. The main cause of hayfever from now on in large areas of the US is ragweed. Perhaps some comments on its nectar and pollen source potential (or lack of) from others on the list will add information to this discussion, but due to its widespread nature, any "local" honey reference is meaningless. I would be the first to admit that "local honey is better" is not a bad marketing ploy. :) Comb honey is often cited as being beneficial for hayfever and the presumed reason is that it contains more pollen than filtered honey. This is true if the honey is filtered below around 10 microns, but strained (above 200 microns), normally extracted honey has around 2-3 times the number of pollen grains (30,000 to often over 1,000,0000 per 10 grams) as comb honey (usually below 50,000/10g) Any research in this area needs to look beyond what in the initial instance appears to be an enticing piece of "logic". Perhaps there is something more complex happening that may have wider (more beneficial?) implications. ---------------------------------------------------------------- Peter Bray, Airborne Honey Ltd., PO Box 28, Leeston, New Zealand Fax 64-3-324-3236, Phone 64-3-324-3569 p.bray@netaccess.co.nz ---------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 20 Jul 1996 08:57:08 PST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Steven A. Creasy" Subject: Mite Solution Does anyone have any first hand experience with Mite Solution, the supposed organic compound sold by Mr. Tuttle in WA? I have read about it in Bee Culture, and am curious if anyone has tried it. ESPECIALLY in Tennessee or surrounding states. Thanks ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 21 Jul 1996 19:23:39 +0000 Reply-To: kchristensen@ccinet.ab.ca Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: kchristensen Subject: Re: use of unfiltered honey for the treatment of allergies I'm 28 years old and have been working with bees all my life. As a kid I suffered alot from hay fever type allergies, especially while I was in the bee yards during honey pulling time. I got so sick sometimes that I can remember my dad sending me home. Two years ago I started eating more of our own honey. (imagine that) By more, I mean that I have a little bit every day even if its only some in my morning coffee. Last year I only suffered from allergies 2 or 3 days. So far this season I have not had a bad day. The canola is in full bloom here and so are many other flowers and I still feel great. We are having a very wet year. I hope that this is not playing a role in my lack of allergy symptoms. Kevin Christensen ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 22 Jul 1996 13:10:30 -0200 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: root Subject: Bulgarian Beekeper Hi Bill, Sorry for my long delay, but I was out of town and I couldn't answer you right away. Anyway here am I sitting infront of the computer, hoping 'am not so late to help you. I talked with my father and he said that between 10-15 of August will be a quite good time to visit him. If the time is not pleasent for you please e_mail me. >From your letter I understand that you will come in Sofia at the begining of August and you will stay till the end of the month. If you need help abaout the arangements of the visit in Bulgaria (such as acomodation - we have another apartment which is spare from the 1 of August - anykind of help,etc.) you can tell me to help you. Please inform me about your condition and intentions as well as anything you need. Bye Stefan ------------------------- Stefan Stepansky address: jk."Mladost"4 tel:+395/2/745836 bl.444,vh.4,et.4,ap.12 e_mail:sist@vmei.acad.bg Sofia - 1715 Bulgaria ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 22 Jul 1996 11:24:23 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: James D Satterfield Subject: *Vespa crabro* in Georgia, USA At the last meeting of the Cherokee Beekeepers Association here in Canton, GA USA, I took four specimens of the giant european hornet, *Vespa crabro* to the meeting. I asked if other beekeepers were seeing them feeding on bees at their hives. All said yes; one beekeeper said that there were not a many as last year. Those appearing at my hives were later in the season than in previous years, perhaps due to the very cold winter that we had. A few points may be of interest: 1. Another beekeeper reported seeing several at once, chewing bark off a lilac bush, apparently getting material for building nests. I too had seen three at one time removing bark from a lilac bush. Lilac would appear to be a choice source for nesting material. 2. One beekeeper had see a nest at the base of a hollow tree. The hornets had closed up the opening with their nest material, leaving a small entrance. 3. Another beekeeper reported that the hornets had "night vision". They had apparently been attracted to a electric light bulb that was burning at the door to his house at night. When he went out, he was stung on the arm by one of the hornets. He said that while he is stung often with his honeybees and experiences minor discomfort, the hornet sting "hurt for three days." The sourwood honeyflow here in north Georgia appears to be exceptionally good this year. I'll take off my honey this week, then treat for mites. I hope that your honeyflows have been or will be good this year. Cordially yours, Jim --------------------------------------------------------------- | James D. Satterfield | E-Mail: jsatt@gsu.edu | | -------------------------------- | 258 Ridge Pine Drive Canton is about 40 mi/64 km | | Canton, GA 30114, USA north of Atlanta, Georgia USA | | Telephone (770) 479-4784 | --------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 22 Jul 1996 12:15:40 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: William T Padgett Subject: Queen Right In-Reply-To: I have heard the term "Queen Right" used in a number of ways, my questions are; 1. Does the term have a universally accepted definition,and 2. Does the definition vary depending on the season of the year? Thanks for your help. I really appreciate the answers I got to my question about Apistan strips.... I wa planning to reuse them based on some people who said they had dome so in the past.. You convinced me that was a bad idea...thanks again, I'll pass the word on to others. Tom Padgett Aubukrn, AL ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 22 Jul 1996 11:20:01 -0800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jay Jones Subject: Re: use of unfiltered honey for the treatment of allergies In-Reply-To: "Your message dated Mon, 22 Jul 1996 23:58:47 +1300" <1374042569-5706429@mac.co.nz> THanks for your comments. I couldn't agree more. That is why we want to do a careful controlled study. If you here of any professional leads along this line (e.g. publications etc.) please let me know. Thanks again for your comments. Jay Jonesj jonesj@ulvacs.ulaverne.edu ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 22 Jul 1996 16:18:16 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: David Eyre Subject: Re: Queen Right >I have heard the term "Queen Right" used in a number of ways, my >questions are; >1. Does the term have a universally accepted definition,and >2. Does the definition vary depending on the season of the year? It's just a universally acceptable description of a hive which has a laying Queen in residence, and it's "right" meaning everything is correct. Instead of all the other terms, Queenless, Laying workers, Drone layer, etc. Time of year does not change the definition. **************************************************** * David Eyre 9 Progress Drive, Unit 2, * * The Beeworks, Orillia, Ontario, L3V 6H1. * * beeworks@muskoka.net 705-326-7171 * * http://www.muskoka.net/~beeworks * * Agents for: E H Thorne & B J Sherriff UK. * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 01:42:31 +0000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Franklin D. Humphrey Sr" Subject: Re: use of unfiltered honey for the treatment of allergies At 10:58 AM 7/22/96 +0000, you wrote: >To be honest I am sceptical about some aspects of this subject - or perhaps >there are mechanisms at work here that are not immediately obvious. > >Most pollen related allergies/hayfever are induced by wind pollinated >plants, e.g. grasses etc.in the Spring and Ragweed in the late summer and >Autumn. The makeup of these pollens is greatly different to that of insect >pollinated plants. Insect collected pollen (most of the pollen found in >honey - > 99%+) tends to be larger, more protein and actually provides a >food source for the gathering insect. Most have usually evolved with their >pollinator(s) of choice and are attractive and nutritionally useful to these. > >The references about a 50 mile radius for "local honey" are also open to >question. The main cause of hayfever from now on in large areas of the US >is ragweed. Perhaps some comments on its nectar and pollen source potential >(or lack of) from others on the list will add information to this >discussion, but due to its widespread nature, any "local" honey reference is >meaningless. I would be the first to admit that "local honey is better" is >not a bad marketing ploy. :) > >Comb honey is often cited as being beneficial for hayfever and the presumed >reason is that it contains more pollen than filtered honey. This is true if >the honey is filtered below around 10 microns, but strained (above 200 >microns), normally extracted honey has around 2-3 times the number of pollen >grains (30,000 to often over 1,000,0000 per 10 grams) as comb honey (usually >below 50,000/10g) > >Any research in this area needs to look beyond what in the initial instance >appears to be an enticing piece of "logic". Perhaps there is something more >complex happening that may have wider (more beneficial?) implications. >---------------------------------------------------------------- >Peter Bray, Airborne Honey Ltd., PO Box 28, Leeston, New Zealand >Fax 64-3-324-3236, Phone 64-3-324-3569 p.bray@netaccess.co.nz >---------------------------------------------------------------- > Hi Peter I agree about the rag weed pollan but here in the southern USA the bees gather ragweed pollan and nectar form late July until other sources of pollan and bedime available in late August or early September. The reason for the 50 mile radius. Is probably an arbitrary figure, but the idea is for a person to get honey that contains pollan form most sources that a person is likely to encounter localy. Frank Humphrey beekeeper@worldnet.att.net ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 22 Jul 1996 22:23:35 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "James C. King" Subject: Drone Laying Colonies I remember reading on the Bee-L a while ago some questions and answers regarding how many drone laying colonies to expect, etc. I think it was Vince Coppola who said that this was becoming (or is) a major problem. I just went thru my 140 colonies in eastern PA and found 7 drone layers. This is far more of this kind of thing that I can remember. These bees were recently inspected and found to have few or no varroa mites (most yards had no mites in several ether rolls and a few had one mite in several ether rolls) and no tracheal mites. As I believe Vince asked, may we have some futher discussion on this, or comparison of others' observations? Jim King ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 22 Jul 1996 22:25:48 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: James Russo <74134.1450@CompuServe.COM> Subject: digest digest ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 22 Jul 1996 21:42:28 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Roy Nettlebeck Subject: Re: use of unfiltered honey for the treatment of allergies In-Reply-To: <1374042569-5706429@mac.co.nz> Hi All, There is a reason that we have a lack scientific fact about the use of natural treatments for many things and allergies being one of them.Money is spent , where money can be made.You will see very slow progress in natural cures , but we all know that they are out there. We get most of our medicine from plants in the first place, but we have to support a very large industry for us to get it to our mouths.I'm not against medicine , but I'm against the way we are hand fed to belive that it is the only way.We could have more than pollen in unstrained, unheated honey, that has a positive affect for us on allergies.I have Doctors that buy honey from me and only want raw honey. The deck is loaded in one way.Read Arrowsmith by Sinclair Lewis , he did it back in the 30's and things have not changed since then how Medical Dr's get there education. Who writes the educational plan? We have other fish to fry right now.We need Varroa under control with a natural fix that is long term.The polairity of natural honey for a cure of allergies will go down two lines for a long time to come. Best Regards Roy ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 10:21:18 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: David Eyre Subject: Re: Drone Laying Colonies >I remember reading on the Bee-L a while ago some questions and answers >regarding how many drone laying colonies to expect, etc. I think it was >Vince Coppola who said that this was becoming (or is) a major problem. I >just went thru my 140 colonies in eastern PA and found 7 drone layers. This >is far more of this kind of thing that I can remember. These bees were >recently inspected and found to have few or no varroa mites (most yards had >no mites in several ether rolls and a few had one mite in several ether >rolls) and no tracheal mites. > >As I believe Vince asked, may we have some futher discussion on this, or >comparison of others' observations? It is strange how just recently the thread keeps returning to Queen rearing and breeding, because that's what a drone layer comes down to. Surely if we don't push our mating etc. the queens will mate properly and the sperm they carry will last their life time, or two years at least. But if the weather is bad, as we have had this year, and there are few drones around, the chances of good mating are slim. We encourage extra drones in our yards by adding drone foundation to selected hives, making drone mother colonies. How many others do that? It would seem that our Southern cousins are the ones who are suffering with these problems. Perhaps the time has come for you'all to look North for new stock. Since our borders were closed to protect us from the mites, we here in Canada have been self sufficient, and been raising our own, and we generally don't have these sort of complaints.If we could just get your postal service up to speed, then there are no problems with shipping bees into the US from Canada. Having said that I must re-count a problem I had in dealing with breeder stock. Two years ago we bought (expensive) breeder queens from a well know breeder, who shall remain nameless. We went to a great deal of trouble to introduce them properly, one failed after laying one frame of eggs. The other colony died during the winter, on testing it had the highest count of Nosema the lab had ever seen. Our bees do not suffer with Nosema. Just because one breeder shouts louder or can advertise more, doesn't make them better. My advice, ask around, buy from different sources, to diversify your stock, and hopefully you will find some one who knows about diversity, stock improvement, and is not just in it for the money! Finally, too many bee keepers hang onto poor bees, hives that really are going nowhere. If we could "cull the worst, breed the best" then bee stock would improve, and ultimately the bad breeders would go out of business . Here in the BEE-L we have a perfect learning tool, with the anominity it is possible to learn without loosing face. I was always taught if you don't know, ask. If you want to raise you're own, and don't know how, then ask!!! **************************************************** * David Eyre 9 Progress Drive, Unit 2, * * The Beeworks, Orillia, Ontario, L3V 6H1. * * beeworks@muskoka.net 705-326-7171 * * http://www.muskoka.net/~beeworks * * Agents for: E H Thorne & B J Sherriff UK. * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 14:48:03 +0100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Dave Black Subject: Using the Archive 'Afternoon chaps, Being a bit new at this game I though it should be easy to get the explanatory document (U01-012-0) and index for the BEE-L so I can search and retrieve correspondence on A) Varroa B)Queen cell introduction. (I'd hate to bore you all by asking the same sort of questions again :-) ) Well, I have to admit (temporary) defeat. 45 pages ! Do any of you old hands use the facility ? Is there an easier way ? What's a CJLI ? -- Dave Black Blacks Bee Gardens, Guildford, GU1 4RN. UK. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 16:26:38 +0100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Dave Black Subject: Re: Drone Laying Colonies In-Reply-To: <199607231422.KAA10873@segwun.muskoka.net> I wonder how often Drone laying can be traced back to the use of artificially inseminated queens. If AI queens are only used as breeders it won't matter if they run out of sperm, if you try and run them for a year or so they will and it does. I'm not convinced AI gives you the longevity even if it gives you the quality. -- Dave Black Blacks Bee Gardens, Guildford, GU1 4RN. UK. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 12:21:46 +0000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Dan Mihalyfi Organization: sccoe Subject: japanese bees shake and bake I have a question for the entomologists... In the Earth Almanac department of the April, 1996 National Geographic, there is a blurb about bees in Japan that use heat defense against giant hornats. I've also read of these bees in other bee literature My question is... Are these bees a race of Apis millifera or a member of one of the other four species of honey bee? I can't find any clues in the Hive And The Honey Bee. >From the picture in the article, they sure look like honey bees. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 15:23:39 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jim Moore DTN276-9448 ogo1/e17 508-496-9448 Subject: Suggestions please... I have a 2 first year hives, 3 lb packages installed with new foundation back in May. Hive #1 is currently 2 deeps and a medium. The medium was being ignored so I moved a medium frame of honey from hive #2. Now the foundation on either side of the frame is being drawn only on the side toward the honey frame. The rest is still being ignore. It is not for a lack of flow. Hive #2 is 2 deep and 2 mediom supers. They are already drawing their second medium and have filled one medium super. The brood chambers of the two hives are in vastly different states. Both hive are 10 frames in all boxes. Hive #2 has 8 frames of brood area in the lower box and 8+ frames in the upper deep. Brood enen on the outside frame on the north side. Thus not alot of honey in the brood area. This explains the honey supers being drawn. Lots of capped brood to lost of bees to come yet. Hive #1 has brood only in the bottom deep (6 frames) and lots of honey in the upper brood chamber. The queen realy doesn't have very much space for laying and there are not lots of bees set to emerge. This explains I think why the honey supers are not being use. Anyway, 2 questions. If I harvest Hive #2's honey supers in early August will they have time and space to store enough honey for the winter in the deeps? Here in New England bee winter with 2 deeps. For hive #1 are there tactics that I could have used or can be used to get the brood chamber back in the bee baby busines and out of the honey storage business? One last point. Hive #1 has provided two frames of brood, one on 6/2 and one on 6/30 for a hopelessly queenless swarm hive that I've been nursing along trying to get them to raise a queen. This tampering may go along way toward explaining the current state of the hive #1. Thanks in advance, Jim Moore moore@aiag.enet.dec.com -------------------------------------------------- PS. I'm compiling the results of the responses to be query: "Survey of tools used when working hives" and will be posting summaries as time permits. FYI: 51 responses/429 recipients = 12% response rate. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 15:38:54 +0100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Cindy Renfrow Subject: mead Comments: To: 100410.2631@compuserve.com Dear Beekeeper, If you wish to expand your product line, or to dispose of surplus honey, you might wish to consider producing meads and other honey-based fermented beverages. Meads are easy to make, take few ingredients other than honey and water, and are as delicious as white wine! You will find 2 mead recipes at my web site: http://www.alcasoft.com/renfrow/sample.html as well as links to many mead-related websites containing more recipes & instructions for making this delicious beverage. Thank you! Cindy Renfrow renfrow@skylands.net http://www.alcasoft.com/renfrow/ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 22:13:22 +0200 Reply-To: beeman@kuai.se Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: P-O Gustafsson Subject: Re: Drone Laying Colonies David Eyre wrote: > We encourage extra drones in our yards by > adding drone foundation to selected hives, making drone mother colonies. How > many others do that? Well, actually I have a drone frame in each hive. I requeen with a ripe cell in the hives and need drones of the right origin on all locations. As long as I have F1 queens in the hives, I have the right genetic drone stock that way. Now it's not only for my queens, but my drones mate with other beekeepers queens who don't care for breeding better stock. So this way I will influence the genetics of most drones in my area and are getting better mating for every year. And I don't belive that I loose any honey because of all the drones. > . Here in the BEE-L we have a perfect learning tool, with the > anominity it is possible to learn without loosing face. I was always taught > if you don't know, ask. If you want to raise you're own, and don't know how, > then ask!!! Agree with you! There is a lot of knowledge among the members of this group, but there has to be questions to bring that knowledge out in the open. I have a few words and some pictures of my queenrearing on my homepage. If there is any interest from you out there, I can get a bit deeper into the subject. -- Regards P-O Gustafsson, Sweden beeman@kuai.se http://www.kuai.se/~beeman/ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 16:59:01 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ian Watson Subject: Re: japanese bees shake and bake In-Reply-To: <31F4C3DA.157B@santacruz.k12.ca.us> On Tue, 23 Jul 1996, Dan Mihalyfi wrote: > I have a question for the entomologists... > > In the Earth Almanac department of the April, 1996 National > Geographic, there is a blurb about bees in Japan that use heat defense > against giant hornats. I've also read of these bees in other bee > literature > > My question is... > > Are these bees a race of Apis millifera or a member of one of the > other four species of honey bee? > > I can't find any clues in the Hive And The Honey Bee. > >From the picture in the article, they sure look like honey bees. > with the understanding that im not an entomologist, i believe those bees are Apis cerena...but i will leave it to the experts..:) Ian Watson iwatson@freenet.npiec.on.ca ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 20:34:34 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Vince Coppola Subject: Re: Suggestions please... In-Reply-To: <9607231923.AA04249@us4rmc.pko.dec.com> On Tue, 23 Jul 1996, Jim Moore DTN276-9448 ogo1/e17 508-496-9448 wrote: > I have a 2 first year hives, 3 lb packages installed with new > foundation back in May. Hive #1 is currently 2 deeps and a medium. The > > The brood chambers of the two hives are in vastly different > states. Both hive are 10 frames in all boxes. > > Hive #2 has 8 frames of brood area in the lower box and 8+ frames > in the upper deep. > > Hive #1 has brood only in the bottom deep (6 frames) and lots of > honey in the upper brood chamber. > > > If I harvest Hive #2's honey supers in early August will they > have time and space to store enough honey for the winter in the deeps? > Here in New England bee winter with 2 deeps. > > For hive #1 are there tactics that I could have used or can be > used to get the brood chamber back in the bee baby busines and out of the > honey storage business? > Hi Jim, I think you are correct in assuming that removing brood only 3 or 4 weeks after starting the package may be why this colony is behind colony #2. There are other factors that can cause variability in colony performance. Queen quality, both physical and genetic are important. The initial population of the colony is a big factor. Often there is drifting after package introduction causing some colonies to lag others. Hive position with regard to sunlight or a stress like skunks are other factors. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 20:48:20 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Vince Coppola Subject: Re: Drone Laying Colonies In-Reply-To: <199607230223.WAA09757@mail.enter.net> On Mon, 22 Jul 1996, James C. King wrote: I just went thru my 140 colonies in eastern PA and found 7 drone layers. This is far more of this kind of thing that I can remember. > no mites in several ether rolls and a few had one mite in several ether > rolls) and no tracheal mites. > Be careful about discounting tracheal mites. Sometimes a negative lab report can fool you. The colony condition, the time of the year and where the sample was drawn can affect the results. You may want to sample again later in the year. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 20:50:57 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Vince Coppola Subject: Re: Drone Laying Colonies In-Reply-To: <3ea3XFAu8O9xEwzr@tfbplc.co.uk> On Tue, 23 Jul 1996, Dave Black wrote: > I wonder how often Drone laying can be traced back to the use of > artificially inseminated queens. If AI queens are only used as breeders Production queens are usualy mated naturaly. AI is used to produce breeding stock. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 21:10:11 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Vince Coppola Subject: Re: Drone Laying Colonies In-Reply-To: <199607231422.KAA10873@segwun.muskoka.net> On Tue, 23 Jul 1996, David Eyre wrote: > It would seem that our Southern cousins are the ones who are > suffering with these problems. Perhaps the time has come for you'all to look > North for new stock. Hi David, Many people I've discussed this with think that tracheal mites have something to do with this problem. Since Ontario has only rescently been invaded with these, it may be another year or two before you see this affect in your operation. > Our bees do not suffer with Nosema. Having imported a few queens from Ontario, I can assure you that your bees can suffer with nosema. I believe there were some outbreaks of nosema in your Province this winter. I agree with the rest of your post, especially regarding culling and selection. This is not a criticisism of the queen breeding in Ontario. I recomend Ontario queens to any northern beekeeper. We would be fortunate here in the States to have a program as good as theirs. With all the problems caused by the tracheal mite in rescent years, I'm amazed that this program has'nt gotten more attention. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 21:11:18 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "my name is Dean M. Breaux" Subject: Re: Drone Laying Colonies In a message dated 96-07-23 12:20:07 EDT, you write: << I wonder how often Drone laying can be traced back to the use of artificially inseminated queens. If AI queens are only used as breeders it won't matter if they run out of sperm, if you try and run them for a year or so they will and it does. I'm not convinced AI gives you the longevity even if it gives you the quality. >> As a rule Instrumentally Inseminated Queens do not store as much seman as open mated queens. However this in no way effects the proginey or daughters of the I.I. Queens. Much study has been done along these lines and while the results have been variable they tend to be conclusive that I.I. mated queens store less semen. I have seen Queens that were Instrumentally Inseminated with the seman from one drone last in full sized colonies for well over one year, And NOT become drone layers. I have also seen Queens inseminated with 8 micro-Liters of semen begin drone laying in less than a year. A lot depends on how well the insemination goes. I would never advise running Instrumentally Inseminated Queens in ones hives as honey producing units. First due to the high cost of the queens it is money not well spent. Second I.I. Queens due not respond the same as Naturally mated Queens. This was shown in trials By the USDA in Baton Rouge La. in a study done By Dr. John Harbo Dean M. Breaux Executive Vice President Hybri-Bees "Breeding Better Bees" ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 18:25:11 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: John Caldeira Subject: Apistan Reuse I know of two nuc colonies in a high-varroa area that have thriving colonies and two-year old strips in them (these are not honey-producing colonies). "Don't reuse Apistan" appears to be a frequent note on this list, but What are the REAL facts on the effectiveness of reused Apistan? I've read the widely published article showing significantly lower fluvalinate in the strips within a few weeks (but never Zoecon's own research). However, Dr. Frank Eischen of the Texas Agricultural Experiment Station at Weslaco, Texas wrote in the December 1995 issue of American Bee Journal: "There are published reports from Europe showing 99% effectiveness of Apistan strips used five times over a period of five years (Pechhacker, 1993). I have also received personal communication from knowledgeable folks outside the U.S. attesting to good efficacy with multiple use. This issue needs to be resolved as soon as possible." The study he cites is Pechhacker, H. 1993. A successful strategy for Varroa control. In: pp. 551-555. Asian Apiculture. L. Conner et al. eds. Wicwas Press. I have also read speculation that reuse of Apistan may accelarate resistance of the mites to the pesticide. Is this REALLY true? In the December 1995 issue of American Bee Journal, David M. Noetzel, Extension Entomologist Emeritus from University of Minnesota, suggests almost the opposite. Responding to the earlier article from James Bach, he writes (page 791): "...you cannot have miticide resistence without intense (i.e. high kill) selection. Unless Mr. Bach has objective evidence that mite resistence to fluvalinate (Mavrik) is a multiple gene resistence, he has no basis upon which to suggest that a low dosage of fluvalinate speeds the development of resistence. ... To date where resistence has been traced to the gene level, it has been determined a single gene confers resistence. Hence high dosages always speeds resistence development." In essence, Mr. Noetzel appears to be saying that the high kill rate of Apistan during the first 45 days does more to speed the development of resistence than a lower kill rate that might occur with weaker fluvalinate treatments. I'm not a professional scientist, nor do I advocate any illegal use of chemicals, but Mr. Noetzel's report, the reports of high effectiveness resused Apistan (Pechhacker, 1993 Asian Apiculture, p 551-555, Wicwas Press; and Dr. Frank Eischen, ABJ, December 1995 pp 815-816), and my own knowledge of nucs surviving in high-varroa environments indicate that the issue is quite unclear. IMHO, what we need now is more factual evidence to either replicate or refute the various claims. Can anyone give us recent scientific evidence on Apistan reuse? Regards, John in Dallas, Texas ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 21:23:12 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Jeffrey R. Tooker" Subject: Re: japanese bees shake and bake At 04:59 PM 7/23/96 -0400, you wrote: > On Tue, 23 Jul 1996, Dan Mihalyfi wrote: > >> I have a question for the entomologists... >> >> In the Earth Almanac department of the April, 1996 National >> Geographic, there is a blurb about bees in Japan that use heat defense >> against giant hornats. I've also read of these bees in other bee >> literature >> >> My question is... >> >> Are these bees a race of Apis millifera or a member of one of the >> other four species of honey bee? >> >> I can't find any clues in the Hive And The Honey Bee. >> >From the picture in the article, they sure look like honey bees. >> >with the understanding that im not an entomologist, i believe those bees >are Apis cerena...but i will leave it to the experts..:) > > Ian Watson > iwatson@freenet.npiec.on.ca > I am not an entomologist either, however I have a book. As per "The Social Behavior of Bees", Charles D. Michener, I.S.B.N. 674-81175-5, Harvard University Press, 1974, pg. 348 concerning distribution. Japan is listed for A. Cerana. JRT ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 08:17:59 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: rnessler Subject: Setting up used hives In-Reply-To: About three years ago I was given four hives. The person who gave them to me said that I might need to take a torch to the inside of them to kill off any moths prior to setting them up. Is this good advice, and ar there other things I should do? Should I repaint them? The paint is generally good. Do I use a latex or oil base? I plan on buying foundations and a bee kit next spring to get one hive set up, and see how it goes from there. We have about 60 fruit trees, and are going to plant about 15 acres of alfalfa. I've attended a few local apiary meetings, have read a few old issues of Gleanings, and have just joined this group. I hope everyone is patient with a novice who wants to learn. Randy Nessler rnessler@emiris.iaf.uiowa.edu ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 08:25:40 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: rnessler Subject: Re: Suggestions please... In-Reply-To: On Tue, 23 Jul 1996, Vince Coppola wrote: > > Hi Jim, > position with regard to sunlight or a stress like skunks are other factors. How does one deal with skunks? Does placing the hive up on a pallet work? I'm going to set up a hive next spring, and there seems to be a fair number of skunks this year. Randy Nessler rnessler@emiris.iaf.uiowa.edu ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 08:29:57 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: rnessler Subject: Bleak future? In-Reply-To: <960723211116_368774754@emout19.mail.aol.com> I attend a field day of the Iowa Fruit and Vegetable Growers Association last Saturday. They brought in a speaker who tends hives locally. His talk was rather bleak and discouraging. He went on at length about the problems of bee keeping (foulbrood, mites, etc.). I have heard that the wild bee population is succumbing to these problems, thus making it very important to have domestic hives. Are things as bad as this person lead me to believe? Is it such a hassle to maintain a few colonies? I plan to do it anyway. Randy Nessler rnessler@emiris.iaf.uiowa.edu ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 08:47:21 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Gerry Visel Subject: Re: Suggestions please... -Reply I've heard that the fix for skunks is to put carpet tack boards on the ground in front of the hive. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 09:04:36 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Gerry Visel Subject: Setting up used hives -Reply Randy, Scorching the inside of hives is to reduce the chance of transmitting foulbrood, (which you should treat for anyway.) Waxmoth larva live in the actual combs, and should cause no problem to a healthy colony. (The bees keep them in control.) New foundation will start you out fine, as waxmoths don't normally even get into foundation until there is some pollen they can eat, and no or weak beas. I've seen happy bees kept in everything from "painted fine furniture" to holey old boxes that had to be more than 50 years old. They didn't seem to mind the outside condition a bit. The only considerations are for protection the exterior of your woodenware from the elements, plus maybe the color, if you are in a hot/cold area. The bees don't mind. This list is a great resource for novices, and (like with most beekeeper activities,) you will get more ways to do things here than there are people here. ("Ask five beekeepers how to do something, and you will get six opinions...") Good luck! Gerry Visel GCVisel@SNDS.COM phone: (815) 226-6620 fax: (815) 394-5438 or -2827 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 10:51:04 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jim Moore DTN276-9448 ogo1/e17 508-496-9448 Subject: Re: Setting up used hives As you have enough equipment (four hives), I would suggest starting with two or even three hives. As a beginner you will learn faster and be better able to detect potential problems and recognize unusual behaviour by comparing hives. Additionally it does give you the opportunity to fortifiy a weaker hive with brood from a stronger hive should the need arise. Also if next year is anything like this year order your bees early (Feb.) as the demand outstripped the supply this year. Good luck. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 05:20:00 GMT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Andy Nachbaur Organization: WILD BEE'S BBS (209) 826-8107 LOS BANOS, CA Subject: Apistan ReuseI know of two nuc colonies in a high-varroa area that hav thriving JC>From: John Caldeira >Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 18:25:11 -0700 >Subject: Apistan Reuse JC> "There are published reports from Europe showing 99% effectiveness of >Apistan strips used five times over a period of five years (Pechhacker, >1993). I have also received personal communication from knowledgeable folks >outside the U.S. attesting to good efficacy with multiple use. This issue >needs to be resolved as soon as possible." Yes this was very true in the early production of the strips, but the company is not that dumb and the formulation has been changed to the point that the chemical is exhausted very quickly, and in fact some reports show that there is some thought that there is some variation in the amount of active material the strips now contain when new and it may be less then the desirable amounts in a percentage of the new strips. If this was translated to "some production runs", it would explain why so many beekeepers report seeing live mites when removing the strips after the proscribed use period. When any farmer allows someone else to apply pesticides to his crop there is always room for costly error. It is sad that the bee industry is though to be so low on the professional scale of things that they must only use this product which contains a few cents worth of material and is NO more then a conveyance but wasteful applicator of a chemical that can and is being used by farmers and beekeepers in other places with out problems when used with the same caution and common sense we all use with hazardous remedies. If the rest of agriculture were treated as beekeepers are when it comes to making decisions on the health management of their crops farmers would be marching in the streets of Washington and food prices would be higher then fuel cost are today. ttul Andy- (c) Permission is granted to freely copy this document in any form, or to print for any use. (w)Opinions are not necessarily facts. Use at own risk. --- ~ QMPro 1.53 ~ Your true value depends entirely on what you are compared ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 10:56:14 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: rnessler Subject: Re: Setting up used hives In-Reply-To: <9607241450.AA00285@us4rmc.pko.dec.com> On Wed, 24 Jul 1996, Jim Moore DTN276-9448 ogo1/e17 508-496-9448 wrote: > As you have enough equipment (four hives), I would suggest > starting with two or even three hives. From the Dadant catalog, I estimated a hive (foundations and a bee kit) to cost about $100.00 each. Is this about right? > As a beginner you will learn faster and be better able to detect > potential problems and recognize unusual behaviour by comparing > hives. Additionally it does give you the opportunity to fortifiy a > weaker hive with brood from a stronger hive should the need arise. Any suggestions for a definitve book on bees/beekeeping? > Also if next year is anything like this year order your bees > early (Feb.) as the demand outstripped the supply this year. I followed sci.agriculture.beekeeping for awhile, and there was a fair amount of discussion on "don't order from this company" as they will take your money, and not fulfill their delivery promises. Who would you recommend I do business with? > Good luck. Thanks, Randy Nessler rnessler@emiris.iaf.uiowa.edu ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 12:24:22 +22324924 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Adam Finkelstein Subject: Queens and bees-- who produces the best ones? In-Reply-To: from "rnessler" at Jul 24, 96 10:56:14 am rnessler, (you), wrote: > > I followed sci.agriculture.beekeeping for awhile, and there > was a fair amount of discussion on "don't order from this company" as > they will take your money, and not fulfill their delivery promises. > Who would you recommend I do business with? > The best bees come from local sources--if all other factors are equal. I have had good results from sources far away and poor results from local sources though. Since bee production deals with the transportation of living organisms, you are at the mercy of the postal service: and their service is predictably erratic. Great queens can become poor by sitting in the post office, in the sun, for two days, while the postal people assure you that shipping honey bees by mail is illegal. Try posting a "who likes who" breeder thread in sci.agriculture.beekeeping and summarize the results to this list. Adam -- _________________ Adam Finkelstein adamf@vtaix.cc.vt.edu ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 13:43:52 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Lars Lutton (614)593-2669" Subject: Re: Bleak future? In-Reply-To: Its probably worse-not like the old days of super them and forget them. If your a "backyard" beekeeper you probably not see most of the stress diseases foulbrood, chalkbrood and the like but you will likely deal with both mites. Treatments are not 100% guarantee- I just lost a spring treated colony. But its still fun order your bees right after Xmas, burn out your used boxes(that was your post?), put them on new frames and wax, feed them alot of syrup and treat for both mites. One of my students will have a surpluys of cut comb his 1st year. Treat again in the fall and if your lucky your in-Lars/SE Ohio ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 13:02:53 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Albert W. Needham" Subject: Re: Bleak future? In a message dated 96-07-24 09:43:04 EDT, you write: << I attend a field day of the Iowa Fruit and Vegetable Growers Association last Saturday. They brought in a speaker who tends hives locally. His talk was rather bleak and discouraging. >> Randy: You can find naysayers and negative people discoursing on any subject. It is sort of like "Is the glass half empty or half full?" If you want to do it..just do it! Stay tuned in to BEE-L, it is a veritable "Wealth of Information", with a great variety of opinions and suggestions. Just weigh the info and decide for yourself! Al Neredham Hobbyist Scituate,MA alwine@aol.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 10:30:07 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Roy Nettlebeck Subject: Re: Drone Laying Colonies In-Reply-To: On Tue, 23 Jul 1996, Vince Coppola wrote: > On Tue, 23 Jul 1996, David Eyre wrote: > > > It would seem that our Southern cousins are the ones who are > > suffering with these problems. Perhaps the time has come for you'all to look > > North for new stock. > > Hi David, > Many people I've discussed this with think that tracheal mites have > something to do with this problem. Since Ontario has only rescently been > invaded with these, it may be another year or two before you see this > affect in your operation. > > > > Our bees do not suffer with Nosema. > > Having imported a few queens from Ontario, I can assure you that your > bees can suffer with nosema. I believe there were some outbreaks of > nosema in your Province this winter. > > I agree with the rest of your post, especially regarding culling and > selection. > This is not a criticisism of the queen breeding in Ontario. I > recomend Ontario queens to any northern beekeeper. We would be fortunate > here in the States to have a program as good as theirs. With all the > problems caused by the tracheal mite in rescent years, I'm amazed that > this program has'nt gotten more attention. Hi Vince and David, I think that the both of you have a very important post here. The Tracheal mite is very slow to show its head to a beekeeper.We see some side affects well before we find the mite.I agree that Ontario has been working very hard to produce the very best queens that they can for beekeepers.As both of you know first hand , it is not easy to produce very good queens all the time.Culling is very important and we need more of it in the US. Both of you have helped many beekeepers on this list and proably many more off of the list.We need not agree all the time , that would be boring anyway.We have fewer answers than we would like , most of the time.I come up with more questions than I have answers and thats after 30 years with the bees.Thanks to both of you , you have made all of us think and learn Best regards Roy ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 13:02:55 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: rnessler Subject: Re: Queens and bees-- who produces the best ones? In-Reply-To: <199607241624.MAA26342@vtaix.cc.vt.edu> On Wed, 24 Jul 1996, Adam Finkelstein wrote: > > Try posting a "who likes who" breeder thread in sci.agriculture.beekeeping > and summarize the results to this list. > > Adam It's posted, I'll let you know the results. Randy Nessler rnessler@emiris.iaf.uiowa.edu ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 22 Jul 1996 22:36:41 +0100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Gordon Scott Subject: Re: Plants for bees. In-Reply-To: <199606171756.AA286804185@rhum.hpl.hp.com> On Mon, 17 Jun 1996, Malcolm Roe wrote: > However, the following observation might be of interest. Just outside my > back door at home there is a single sage plant (Salvia sylvestris) which > is presently in flower. It's only about 1m in extent but over the weekend > it was astonishingly attractive to all sorts of nectar gathering insects. Many of the culinary herbs seem excellent. I have oregano growing just by the kitchen door where both the bees and we can get to it easily. Borage, mint, rosemary, thyme and lavender (culinary? .. just!) are all very popular. Gordon Scott gordon@apis.demon.co.uk gordon@multitone.co.uk (work) The Basingstoke Beekeeper (newsletter) beekeeper@apis.demon.co.uk Embryo Home Page Beekeeper; Kendo 3rd Dan; Sometime sailor. Hampshire, England. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 22 Jul 1996 20:01:58 +0100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Gordon Scott Subject: Re: Help! I'm being Spamed In-Reply-To: > My suggestion would be that everyone who got spammed should send back > the original message with a simple "No thank you" at the bottom. If > enough people do this it will burn up some bandwidth but they might get > the message. Unfortunately the address is usually bogus and this just burns bandwidth without actually achieving anything. Most of these spammers get their service terminated by their ISP, but often they just start up again somewhere else. There's a newsgroup news.net-abuse.misc (I think) where they report this stuff. Rgeards, Gordon, Gordon Scott gordon@apis.demon.co.uk gordon@multitone.co.uk (work) The Basingstoke Beekeeper (newsletter) beekeeper@apis.demon.co.uk Embryo Home Page Beekeeper; Kendo 3rd Dan; Sometime sailor. Hampshire, England. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 17:24:32 +0100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Dave Black Subject: Re: Setting up used hives In-Reply-To: In message , rnessler writes > About three years ago I was given four hives. The person who >gave them to me said that I might need to take a torch to the inside >of them to kill off any moths prior to setting them up. Is this good >advice, and ar there other things I should do? Should I repaint them? > It is good advice, you could also consider having them dipped in hot caustic soda, which is better if you can do it. Its not the moths you should be worried about its Foulbrood diseases. If you paint them you use a breathable paint because bees generate a lot of water vapour. This will penetrate the wood and, if the paint doesn't breathe, the paint will bubble off in a season. Paint is not usually necessary, Buckfast and some of the NZ's dip boxes in hot wax ! Be *very* *very* wary of insecticides in the paint or whatever, they are nearly always there. I too think you should run at least two colonies, as Gerry Visel says, its just as easy as one but keep spare equipment ready. -- Dave Black Blacks Bee Gardens, Guildford, GU1 4RN. UK. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 16:09:55 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: David Eyre Subject: Re: Request. I received a message via the Web from a customer for 30lbs honey. Would someone closer to Marietta, Georgia please pick up this one. E-mail address garris@cyberatl.net ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 20:01:24 GMT Reply-To: Tim_Sterrett@westtown.edu Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Tim Sterrett Organization: Westtown School Subject: Bleak future? No The majority of beekeepers keep bees because they are fascinated by bees and by beekeeping. We could buy honey in a store and save ourselves money. When each of us started keeping bees, we learned what we had to do to keep them alive and healthy. Real old timers could probably tell us about things they did to bee colonies that are no longer done today. When I started keeping bees in the early 1970's, American foulbrood was the big worry. Foulbrood does not seem to be as big a problem in the 90's. If you start keeping bees this year, you will learn how to keep your colonies healthy. With timely and proper care, bee colonies thrive. That has not changed. Tim Sterrett Westtown, (Southeastern) Pennsylvania, USA tim_sterrett@westtown.edu ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 17:09:34 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jim Moore DTN276-9448 ogo1/e17 508-496-9448 Subject: Wanted: Hive stand designs/descriptions I'm interested in various hive stand designs beyond the simple cinder blocks under the bottom board approach. Descriptions of stands for single and multiple hives and the design motivation and advantages provided would be great, Elaborate or simple, economical or whimsical. How the stand is used when preparing hives for the winter would also be instructive. Lastly, disaster stories about poor stand design would be of interest! Thanks in advance, Jim Moore moore@aiag.enet.dec.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 21:54:21 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Steven Jeffries Barber Subject: Re: Mite Solution In-Reply-To: <19960720.085715.17751.3.screasy@juno.com>; from "Steven A. Creasy" at Jul 20, 96 8:57 am According to Steven A. Creasy: > > Does anyone have any first hand experience with Mite Solution, the > supposed organic compound sold by Mr. Tuttle in WA? I have read about > it in Bee Culture, and am curious if anyone has tried it. ESPECIALLY in > Tennessee or surrounding states. Thanks > I have tried Mite Solution and have been very careful to follow the instructions to the letter. ALL MY BEES DIED!!! This year I will be using the only chemical we know that will solve the problem, Apistan, I hope you do to. Stevn Barber ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 23:04:13 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Ralph W. Harrison" Subject: Formic Acid Does anyone on the BEE-L know how the quest to have formic acid approved for use in the U.S. doing? The last thing that I read about it was that the studies were in the hands of the quality assurance division of the IR-4 and should have gone to the EPA in March. Thanks, Ralph Harrison Milford, CT Member Western CT Beekeepers Association ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 23:16:27 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Vince Coppola Subject: Re: Apistan Reuse In-Reply-To: <199607240125.SAA00734@denmark.it.earthlink.net> On Tue, 23 Jul 1996, John Caldeira wrote: > I know of two nuc colonies in a high-varroa area that have thriving > colonies and two-year old strips in them (these are not honey-producing > colonies). "Don't reuse Apistan" appears to be a frequent note on this > list, but What are the REAL facts on the effectiveness of reused Apistan? > I do'nt know either, but I need to protect my bees. How can I expect any product to perform consistantly better than the manufacturer claims? If I buy a strip that is specified to work once, and my bees die because the strip did'nt work a second time, who is to blame? ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 23:58:02 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "(Kevin & Shawna Roberts)" Subject: Re: Drone Laying Colonies David Eyre wrote: > We encourage extra drones in our yards by > adding drone foundation to selected hives, making drone mother colonies. How > many others do that? Like Mr. Gustafsson, we also make sure that we have a more or less complete frame of drone comb in each hive, right down in the brood nest. We get more choosy about the heritage of the drones near the mating yards, but it's more convenient for us do it by moving the colonies around, rather than adding and subtracting comb selectively. For the workhorse colonies that spend as much time on the truck as on the ground (it seems like that, anyway), having large numbers of drones is an advantage. This year I split several loads using cells, and I depend on lots of available drones for adequate mating of that many queens. Unless I bring the drones in, there don't seem to be enough of them around here. I also buy queens from several different suppliers during the spring and summer to evaluate for breeders and to requeen the duds. I use the best for cells and drone colonies, and cycle the remainder into the general operation to keep the sex alleles high. Kevin Hollister, California ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 00:57:41 -0400 Reply-To: Ian Watson Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ian Watson Subject: Abandon hives To all on the list..(with special attention to Medhat Nasir at Guelph) This spring i was given a hive of bees that haven't been worked or treated for 8 years....And the main reason I want them is because they are still alive!.....with no treatment... They were active very early..and built up very quickly...so i am hoping to use them as breeding stock because of their apparent tolerance of all diseases and mites..... Now..the question is this....The hives themselves look like they were never painted or protected in any way..the wood is warped and weather-beaten. So i am afraid to move them as they are. Plus..the frames are completely propolized and there is burr comb everywhere....impossible to remove the frames. So..i tried putting a box of dark comb ontop...plus a box of foundation...but nothing has happened... The queen refuses to come up into my equipment and lay.... How do i get her ..and the colony..up into my sturdy equipment to i can move them to my apiary. I think it would be a shame to not take advantage of this queens obvious characteristics.. Any ideas would be appreciated Ian Watson iwatson@freenet.npiec.on.ca ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 19:20:28 -1000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Walter Patton Subject: Bleak Future ? Yes Bleak Yes I would agree that things do look a little bleak for U.S. honeybees with continued importation of Canadian honeybees fresh off the airplane from New Zealand with the following honeybee pests and diseases known to be on the N.Z. honeybees. Regarding Ted Fisher request for New Zealand Honeybee health report Mr. Cliff Van Eaton, Apiculture Advisory Officer MAF Quality Management, Tauranga,New Zealand Wrote to bee-l and reported the following list of pest and disease known to exist on NZ honeybees 4/19/96 1American Foul Brood 2 Nosema 3Chalkbrood 4Sacbrood 5 cronic bee paralysis 6 black queen cell 7 acute bee paralysis virus 8 cloudy wing virus 9 bee virus X 10 bee virus Y 11 filamentous virus 12 KASHMIR BEE VIRUS 13 Amoeba disease Mites 14 Melittiphis alvearius 15 Acarapis externus 16 A. dorsalis 17 Neocypholaelaps zealandicus And not reported by Cliff Van Eaton 18. Melanoius found to be on NZ honeybees by Dr. T.P.Liu in Canada Granted that all of the disease's are not being introduced to the North American Continent for the first time and they are assuredly spreading these pests around the U.S. and no one seems to care. The BEE RESEARCH LABORATORY ( BRL ) a part of the USDA seems to have no interest in the spreading of the pests to America's honeybees from sea to shinning sea .Much information has been released by BRL this spring and summer as more and more people have noticed the absence of honeybees in the United States and the increase in honey prices due in part to the stellar losses experienced by Canadian and US bee keepers from the two blood sucking mites and no mention of the increased incidence of Viruses and the truth that honeybees with mites and viruses have no chance for recovery, or is this what our BS bee scientist leader at BRL wants to call l a bad case of PMS? What kind of disaster is going to be needed to get the American beekeeper to wake up and get organized and demand a reorganization of the BEE RESEARCH LABORATORY. Sitting back and letting the status quo continue into the future is only going to let the problem get bigger and bigger . The BRL has one person working on Viruses of honeybees andI am told that the BRL has no opinion as to the origin of KBV and I am referred to Dr. Brenda Ball in England. The BRL has to date no ability to test honeybees for KBV and they refer me to DR Anderson in Australia. I mean wait a minute this is the United States of America that is having to defer me to other countries for information that should be available to the US beekeeper. Now I hear that Australia has requested to send their honeybees to the U S and the BRL seems to enamored with southern hemisphere honeybees. We need to get organized. Aloha Walter Patton Walter & Elisabeth Patton, 27-703 A Ka' ie'ie Rd., Papaikou HI.,96781 Ph./Fax. 808-964-5401 E-Mail hihoney@ilhawaii Beekeeper and Bed & Breakfast Owner in Hawaii http://www.alohamall.com/hamakua/hihoney.htm http://www.alohamall.com/hamakua/beeware.htm http://www.alohamall.com/hamakua/lamalani.htm ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 23:01:43 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Roy Nettlebeck Subject: Re: Bleak future? No Comments: To: Tim Sterrett In-Reply-To: <3815043038.57690744@westtown.edu> On Wed, 24 Jul 1996, Tim Sterrett wrote: > The majority of beekeepers keep bees because they are fascinated by > bees and by beekeeping. We could buy honey in a store and save ourselves > money. > When each of us started keeping bees, we learned what we had to do to > keep them alive and healthy. Real old timers could probably tell us about > things they did to bee colonies that are no longer done today. When I > started keeping bees in the early 1970's, American foulbrood was the big > worry. Foulbrood does not seem to be as big a problem in the 90's. > If you start keeping bees this year, you will learn how to keep your > colonies healthy. With timely and proper care, bee colonies thrive. That > has not changed. Hi Tim, Now things are not as easy as they use to be , before the mites.We need to treat the bees and need to pay more attention to there health then before the mite.We do have other pathogens that are working over the bees also. ( Viruses)I don't think that we are in for a complete breakdown in beekeeping. We all need to use our heads and not make things worse than they are or we will be in real trouble.The use of chemicals that are not tested by qualified researchers is a bomb ready to go off.We will beat the mites , but we need time and help when ever we can so we don't cause apistan to fail us too early. I'm expanding 300% next spring and I'm looking forward to a growth curve over the next few years.We will loose more beekeepers this winter along with there bees.Some parts of this Earth is just getting the T mite.We still have mountains to climb , but it feels great to see how many friendly beekeepers we have around the world that are helping to solve the problems.All real beekeepers have a place in there heart for the honey Bee.I know that we have reseachers all over the globe working on the problems that the bees face.We must follow there advice if we are to win.Lets keep our honey clean and pure.Beekeeping goes back a long way and man has always look to honey as a pure sweetner that God has given us to enjoy.Lets keep it that way , we are following many, many generations of beekeepers that worked hard to keep honey pure.I feel that we will get the help that we need , when we really need it the most.Right now we need to help fellow beekeepers learn the new rules in beekeeping. Some will give up , but others we can hold up with our help. Best Regards to Everyone Roy ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 07:04:11 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Dave Green, Eastern Pollinator Newsletter" Subject: Re: Abandon hives Comments: To: iwatson@freenet.npiec.on.ca In a message dated 96-07-25 01:04:08 EDT, iwatson@freenet.npiec.on.ca (Ian Watson) writes: << So..i tried putting a box of dark comb ontop...plus a box of foundation...but nothing has happened... The queen refuses to come up into my equipment and lay.... How do i get her ..and the colony..up into my sturdy equipment to i can move them to my apiary. I think it would be a shame to not take advantage of this queens obvious characteristics.. >> Get yourself a rubber mallet. Smoke the entrance heavily, then begin a regular thumping on the lower box. The bees will all run upward into the new box. Keep smoking and drumming steadily with the mallet, until the upper box is full of bees; likely they will begin spilling over the edges. Put an excluder under the new top box. Wait a couple days, and check the frames in the top box for eggs. If you have eggs, the queen is in that box. Let her be, until all brood has emerged from the lower box. Then it can be removed and cleaned up, or disgarded. If the queen has not moved up, try it again. It is not difficult, and drumming does not seem to make the bees aggressive. In fact it calms them. I do not like to drum bees unless there is a good reason. I'm sure there is a lot of stress for them, because they abandon the brood; something they would hardly ever do otherwise. But it works. Pollinator@aol.com Dave Green, PO Box 1200, Hemingway, SC 29554 Practical Pollination Home Page Dave & Janice Green http://users.aol.com/pollinator/polpage1.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 09:04:41 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Gerry Visel Subject: Bleak Future ? Yes -Reply My $.02 for Mr. Patton. Puh-leeease!!! Can we can the Hawaii / New Zealand thing??? We have burned up way too much bandwidth already. Why don't you two take your argument off line. We are all in this together and aren't interested in a territorial squabble. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 10:46:03 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Tim Peters Subject: Re: Bleak Future ? Yes -Reply At 10:07 AM 7/25/96 -0500, you wrote: > > My $.02 for Mr. Patton. > Puh-leeease!!! > Why don't you two take your argument off line. I'll second this motion. All those in favor? Any Opposed ? > > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 16:48:42 +0200 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Max.Watkins@sandoz.com Subject: Re[2]: Apistan Reuse Comments: To: owner-bee-l@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU Apistan has been designed [by Zoecon, now called Sandoz] for use over ONE hive treatment only. Research performed in independent Bee Institutes in Europe and in America upholds this fact. It's also been shown by the Swiss Bee Institute for example, that a) higher levels of residue can occur in broodwax if the strips are left in the hive all year 'round instead of the 6-8 week stated treatment period and b) the release rate of active ingredient from re-used strips can be more variable than from new strips. It seems this release can actually be faster and at a higher level initially than from new strips, under certain conditions. With an unreliable release/dosing profile there must be some risk of inducing resistance, nomatter how many beekeepers want to ignore this possibility. Again I will say YES you probably will get mite kill upon re-use of Apistan strips. Sandoz certainly does not recommend it as the efficacy level and other effects on your colonies are not guaranteed. If you want to experiment, go ahead, you are free to choose - but Sandoz has already spent a lot of time in testing this product with bee experts internationally and you know the recommendation. Max ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Re: Apistan Reuse Author: owner-bee-l@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU at INTERNET1 Date: 25/07/96 05:13 On Tue, 23 Jul 1996, John Caldeira wrote: > I know of two nuc colonies in a high-varroa area that have thriving > colonies and two-year old strips in them (these are not honey-producing > colonies). "Don't reuse Apistan" appears to be a frequent note on this > list, but What are the REAL facts on the effectiveness of reused Apistan? > I do'nt know either, but I need to protect my bees. How can I expect any product to perform consistantly better than the manufacturer claims? If I buy a strip that is specified to work once, and my bees die because the strip did'nt work a second time, who is to blame? ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 12:43:27 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Aaron Morris Subject: Hive Stands I construct hive stands from two 8 foot pressure treated landscape timbers and a single 6 foot 2X4 (also pressure treated). I connect the landscape timbers together with three pieces of 2X4 cut to 23 inch lengths, one at each end and one in the middle, using 3 inch deck screws, all 2X4s attached to the bottom of the landscape timbers. I place the constructed stand on top of 3 cement cinder blocks, one under each 2X4. The 2x4s are coated with Tanglefoot, which keeps ants out of my hives. Cost per stand is under $12. Each stand accommodates three hives (each over the 2X4s) with sufficient room between each hive to stack supers when I'm working the hives. These stands are especially convenient for comb honey production. I keep two 2 brood chamber deep hives on each end of a stand. When I cut the hives down to single brood chambers for comb honey production I place the remaining two brood chambers on a bottom board in the center of the stand. After harvesting the comb honey, I split the center hive giving both comb production hives one of the brood boxes. This gives me my production units for the honeyflow and creates the 2 brood chamber hives necessary for overwintering in this nasty northern climate. Aaron Morris - I think, therefore I bee! ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 13:07:20 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Tom Allen Subject: Re: use of unfiltered honey for the treatment of allergies I have just sent off another reply to a recovered allergy sufferer who has found that honey has helped tremendously. I had allergy problems with hay ( the real stuff) spring pollens, molds from the earliest part of my life that I can remember.I was dragged from one doctor to another with no positive lasting effect. I had relief only as long as one dose of medicine lasted and not always then. I moved from New England to the Pacific in 1944 and thereafter had asthma so badly that the base doctors wanted to ship me home, there were days that I felt sure I would suffocate. That never happened and I completed my Pacific tour in 1946. For many years thereafter I suffered badly from asthma then to the 1980'sI found a good respiratory allergist who used injections to increase my resistance.I had some noticable relief but no ceasation. In 1990 I was introduced to beekeeping and thereafter ate a lot of honey, and was frequently stung. Since then I have had no asthma but one summer of terrible hyperventilation problems probably from nervous conditions. The asthma has now not occured in 3 years. I used to have a great deal of sinusitis or hayfever, and got it from a number of sources, the mold or pollen content of a spring fed lake where I went regularly and still do. Everyone would say "What a terrible cold you have" because my nose was so irritated. So embarassing.This too has simply disappeared. If only my mental condition would improve and my age decline all would be well. So far no one has comeup with the fountain of youth so I'll just be happy with improved health in the respiratory department. Proof of honey as a allergy relief, I can not give, but there appears to be a relation.Several of my friends are also having good experience with honey and do not get stung as I do. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 12:06:22 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Maynard R. Thompson" Subject: Re: japanese bees shake and bake In-Reply-To: <31F4C3DA.157B@santacruz.k12.ca.us> On Tue, 23 Jul 1996, Dan Mihalyfi wrote: > I have a question for the entomologists... > In the Earth Almanac department of the April, 1996 National > Geographic, there is a blurb about bees in Japan that use heat defense > against giant hornats. I've also read of these bees in other bee > literature > My question is... > Are these bees a race of Apis millifera or a member of one of the > other four species of honey bee? > I can't find any clues in the Hive And The Honey Bee. > >From the picture in the article, they sure look like honey bees. ******************************************************************* Reply: If I am recalling the same blurb, the bees "balled" around the hornet and raised the internal temp of the ball such that it would kill the hornet. Is this the same to which you were referring? If so I also think that this was the A.cerana as well. This also makes me question this thermoregulatory behavior as a means for them to tolerate Varroa. I have a question or two for the experts. ?????? What is the brood rearing temperature for A.cerana? What is the upper range of tolerance of temp/time for the Varroa? w/o host? Is the accepted beleif of the A.cerana tolerance to Varroa their grooming behavior? How does the distribution of drones/workers differ from A. mellifera? ?????? Regards, Maynard mthompso@mail.coin.missouri.edu ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 14:12:40 GMT-400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Shawn Morrison Subject: help? How do I get off this listserver. I deleted the help message! oops! :( ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 08:01:19 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Sally Fries Organization: U of AK Anchorage-Library Subject: Re: Setting up used hives -Reply Gerry Visel wrote: > I've seen happy bees kept in everything from "painted fine furniture" to > holey old boxes that had to be more than 50 years old. They didn't seem > to mind the outside condition ... Amusing note on this subject: Each of our children has a hive; for about 6 years now my son has painted his camouflage. This hive consistently has very docile bees (new packages each year) that by far our produces the others. The worst tempered, least productive hive is Dad's -- the one painted traditional white. Of course we name all of our queens, my daughter thinks her dad just doesn't pick a cute enough name for his queen! Sally ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 15:26:56 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: David Eyre Subject: Re: Bleak Future ? NO Walter Patton wrote >Bleak Yes I would agree that things do look a little bleak > for U.S. honeybees with continued importation of Canadian >honeybees fresh off >the airplane from New Zealand with the following > honeybee pests and diseases known to be on the N.Z. >honeybees. It is a pity that in these desperate times of mites and disease some one can defame a caring and co-operative organization such as ours. We do not, have not, and will not import bees from New Zealand to ship to the US. It would appear, after examination, that the only people who import bees from NZ in any numbers, are the Western Canada commercial honey producers, for their own use, and not for re-export. Once again, it would appear that Mr. Patton has his facts backwards, and his continued tirade against the New Zealanders is becoming a trifle boring, to say the least. **************************************************** * David Eyre 9 Progress Drive, Unit 2, * * The Beeworks, Orillia, Ontario, L3V 6H1. * * beeworks@muskoka.net 705-326-7171 * * http://www.muskoka.net/~beeworks * * Agents for: E H Thorne & B J Sherriff UK. * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 20:35:59 +0100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Paul Walton Subject: Re: help? In-Reply-To: <1F665345B3B@hurricane.unb.ca> In article <1F665345B3B@hurricane.unb.ca>, Shawn Morrison writes >How do I get off this listserver. I deleted the help message! oops! >:( If I remember correctly, you need to send an UNSUBSCRIBE message to LISTSERV@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU -- Paul Walton Paul@adrem.demon.co.uk Toddington, Bedfordshire, England. Tel. +44 (0)1525 875570 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 12:25:26 -0800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Adrian Wenner Subject: Re: japanese bees shake and bake > On Tue, 23 Jul 1996, Dan Mihalyfi wrote: > >> I have a question for the entomologists... >> >> In the Earth Almanac department of the April, 1996 National >> Geographic, there is a blurb about bees in Japan that use heat defense >> against giant hornets. I've also read of these bees in other bee >> literature >> >> My question is... >> >> Are these bees a race of Apis mellifera or a member of one of the >> other four species of honey bee? >> >> I can't find any clues in the Hive and The Honey Bee. >> >From the picture in the article, they sure look like honey bees. >> >with the understanding that I'm not an entomologist, I believe those bees >are Apis cerena...but I will leave it to the experts..:) *********** According to my source, it appears that you are refering to Apis cerana japonica (Japanese honey bee). When a sparrow wasp attacks the hive entrance the Apis cerana (but not Apis mellifera) "smothers" the attacking wasp with guard bees. The wasp apparently overheats. Adrian Adrian M. Wenner (805) 893-2838 (UCSB office) Ecol., Evol., & Marine Biology (805) 893-8062 (UCSB FAX) Univ. of Calif., Santa Barbara (805) 963-8508 (home office & FAX) Santa Barbara, CA 93106 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 12:26:31 -1000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Walter Patton Subject: BLEAK-YES/NO ? Two cents worth of opinion ($.02) Wow not much value put on my continued attempts to be the messenger of possible dangers as documented by world class bee scientists, not me, I am only reporting what seems apparant to me from the findings of some researchers of honeybee problems. And where do you people get of in calling this a Hawaii and NZ battle. These dangers I report are greater for Canadian and US honeybees than Hawaii honeybees At present the NZ honeybees just pass through the Honolulu airport and are not allowed into our state. Only because of our efforts in Hawaii to keep them out. The BEE RESEARCH LABORATORY with the USDA had no problems allowing the NZ bees into the US and Hawaii except for the fuss that was raised in the 11th and 1/2 hour of fraudulent rule making without proper notice attempted by USDA last year at the request of the NZ beekeeping industry. How pretentious to think that anyone has any idea what happens to NZ bees after they arrive in Canada. Everyone has their own agenda and mine is to try a sound the alarm that the BEE RESEARCH LABORATORY refuses to discuss. Isn't it a little odd that BRL has yet to mention to the media anything about honeybee viruses? Isn't it a little odd that BRL has yet to notify American beekeepers of the increased problems to be expected with the arrival of Viruses Sorry if my comments seem to ruffle a few of you computer beekeepers and I have strong concerns for the integrity of the BRL with it's current organization and it's current management philosophy of no applied research and no peer review including input from industry. Mine is not a Hawaii and NZ issue mine is an issue with the way that the USDA, BRL has failed to "PROTECT AMERICAN AGRICULTURE" the mission statement of the USDA. The best to all . Walter Patton Walter & Elisabeth Patton, 27-703 A Ka' ie'ie Rd., Papaikou HI.,96781 Ph./Fax. 808-964-5401 E-Mail hihoney@ilhawaii Beekeeper and Bed & Breakfast Owner in Hawaii http://www.alohamall.com/hamakua/hihoney.htm http://www.alohamall.com/hamakua/beeware.htm http://www.alohamall.com/hamakua/lamalani.htm ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 18:52:20 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ian Watson Subject: Re: Bleak Future ? NO In-Reply-To: <199607251927.PAA03894@segwun.muskoka.net> On Thu, 25 Jul 1996, David Eyre wrote: > Walter Patton wrote > >Bleak Yes I would agree that things do look a little bleak > > for U.S. honeybees with continued importation of Canadian > >honeybees fresh off > >the airplane from New Zealand with the following > > honeybee pests and diseases known to be on the N.Z. > >honeybees. > > > Once again, it would appear that Mr. Patton has his facts backwards, > and his continued tirade against the New Zealanders is becoming a trifle > boring, to say the least. > > **************************************************** > * David Eyre 9 Progress Drive, Unit 2, * > * The Beeworks, Orillia, Ontario, L3V 6H1. * > * beeworks@muskoka.net 705-326-7171 * > * http://www.muskoka.net/~beeworks * > * Agents for: E H Thorne & B J Sherriff UK. * > **************************************************** > I'll second the motion... Ian Watson iwatson@freenet.npiec.on.ca ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 26 Jul 1996 01:18:00 GMT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Andy Nachbaur Organization: WILD BEE'S BBS (209) 826-8107 LOS BANOS, CA Subject: Re: Bleak Future ? Yes -Reply TP>From: Tim Peters >To: Multiple recipients of list BEE-L >Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 10:46:03 -0400 >Subject: Re: Bleak Future ? Yes -Reply TP>At 10:07 AM 7/25/96 -0500, you wrote: >> My $.02 for Mr. Patton. >> Puh-leeease!!! TP>> Why don't you two take your argument off line. TP> I'll second this motion. TP> All those in favor? TP> Any Opposed ? Yes, I can think of no better place to voice these disagreements in as civilized way as possible then this echo as I know of no way to communicate the difference between beekeepers then to just spit it out for all to see as boring as that may seem to those of us who believe we have seen it all before. I would add, how one feels about bee politics depends a lot on who's OX (bees) are beeing gored. I happen to be one of the few that would open the boarders to all imports from approved countries myself, but I would still protect areas like Hawaii that are apparently free of some pests and diseases that the rest of us are beginning to know very intimately, and I would no know how they feel if it were not for posters like Mr. Patton. Any tread we don't agree with will end faster if we don't reply to it and of course we all have the option of not reading it in the first place. ttul Andy- --- ~ QMPro 1.53 ~ SLMR 2.0 ~ A ounce of pretension = a pound of manure! ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 26 Jul 1996 01:26:00 GMT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Andy Nachbaur Organization: WILD BEE'S BBS (209) 826-8107 LOS BANOS, CA Subject: Re: Bleak Future ? NOWalter Patton wrote DE>From: David Eyre >Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 15:26:56 -0400 >Subject: Re: Bleak Future ? NO DE> It would appear, after examination, that the only people who import >bees from NZ in any numbers, are the Western Canada commercial honey >producers, for their own use, and not for re-export. Has the boarder been closed to export? I do not know..that is why I am asking and because much Canadian bee equipment has shown up in this area the few springs and I know of several local beekeepers who in the past have made several trips into Canada to bring back "blow outs" in bulk cages to make fall nucs. --- ~ QMPro 1.53 ~ I tried the rest, but registered the Best. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 26 Jul 1996 11:35:32 GMT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Steve Pearce Organization: Dept of Biochemistry Subject: Re: Abandoned hives Hi Ian I have some experience of this as I have been given in total 9 hives in the past which were very neglected. If you want to change the queen, then there were a lot of posts on this earlier in the year, but if you want to keep the queen then I have a few ideas, some with pain involved, and some without! If you put a new box of combs under the old ones (if you can) then the bees will fill the top ones with honey, and late in the season, the queen should be laying in the bottom box. Another other way is to dismantle the hive bit by bit and cutting the combs as best you can and tying or using rubber bands to put them in new frames, and slowly building the whole thing into a new hive. I had to do this with the first bees I ever got, which were in two "gift" hives which had bees in them. The hive had been stored with frames with no foundation, and bees had gone in and built comb diagonally accross all the frames. Fortunately I had one of the most experienced beekeepers in our district (the late Dr Roger Wastie) to help me (well I helped him really!!) This process is incidentally a lot easier with two people as it is virtually impossible to cut, hold and tie a comb into a frame with only 2 hands. I would also reccomend doing this on a warm day during a flow. I have also found that if you can dig out the outer frames somehow, the outer section of the box can sometimes be dismantled leaving the block of combs exposed, they can then be taken out easier than if they were having to be pulled out straight. This is because the problem is the propolysing and waxing on the bottom of the combs to the one underneath which in old equipment causes the top or bottom bar to pull out. If you can get the outer box away you can put your hive tool along the bottom, then rock the comb away from it's neighbours. This can be made a bit easier by (again only if you can) moving the old hive even a few yards and putting another hive where the old one was so that you lose the flying bees. Another way is to let them swarm and make sure you catch it! then put this lot into a new hive. Steve ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 26 Jul 1996 11:13:37 +0000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Franklin D. Humphrey Sr" Subject: Re: Apistan Reuse At 03:16 AM 7/25/96 +0000, you wrote: >On Tue, 23 Jul 1996, John Caldeira wrote: > >> I know of two nuc colonies in a high-varroa area that have thriving >> colonies and two-year old strips in them (these are not honey-producing >> colonies). "Don't reuse Apistan" appears to be a frequent note on this >> list, but What are the REAL facts on the effectiveness of reused Apistan? >> >I do'nt know either, but I need to protect my bees. How can I expect any >product to perform consistantly better than the manufacturer claims? If I >buy a strip that is specified to work once, and my bees die because the >strip did'nt work a second time, who is to blame? > Hi All I've been watching as this thread progressed and had hoped it would die the death it so richly deserves. I to have seen colonies survive with Apistan that has been reused. I have also seen colonies survive without it. So the fact that a colony survived, does not prove that it is a good practice to reuse strips. I just proves that the colony survived. I just ordered Apistan which will go into the hives in August. I cost me $4.oo per brood-box. I use single brood chambers so each $4.00 I spend protects a colony that will probably produce 100 to 150 pounds of honey next year. Now I get $2.00 per pound for my honey. With these figures in mind, why in the world would I or anyone else even consider skimping on Apistan and risk losing a productive colony. I personally just don't see the logic here. If nothing else, I like my bees to much not to do everything possible to insure their survival. Frank Humphrey beekeeper@worldnet.att.net ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 15:28:49 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Charlie Bradley Subject: Re: *Vespa crabro* in Georgia, USA The European hornet that has been imported into the U.S. is increasing it's distribution. Ten years ago when I was working in an Extension Office in southeasten Indiana a client brought one in to be identified. It was the first time I had seen one. The entomology specialist at Purdue told me they had a few reports in southern Indiana of the hornet, but that they normally prefered deeply wooded areas. Those living near tracts of timber were more likely to see them. They indeed do fly at night, at least on moonlite nights and also around outdoor security lights. The bald faced hornet that builds the paper nest in trees do not fly at night. The European hornet does have a nasty sting and should be avoided if at all possible. Charlie Charles R. Bradley Extension Educator Marshall County Extension Office 112 W. Jefferson Street Room 304 Plymouth, IN 46563 Phone: 219-935-8545 Fax: 219-935-8612 E-Mail: Charles_Bradley@acn.purdue.edu ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 26 Jul 1996 09:36:01 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Aaron Morris Subject: RESULTS: "Log files (weekly vs monthly) and their value" It was my conclusion that there was no consensus of opinion regarding BEE-L logs (weekly vs monthly). As is commonly noted, ask five beekeepers the same question and you'll get ten answers! So I'll leave well enough alone, which is to say that the 1996 BEE-L logs have been split into weekly logs vs monthly logs, LISTSERV will continue to write future logs in a weekly format, and logs prior to '96 will remain as they are (monthly format). The common thread was that the LISTSERV search capability is woefully archaic, reminiscent of JCL, not user friendly and a chore to use. I have cobbled together a program that attempts to categorize what is available in the logs by subject (as identified in the "Subject:" header). My program identified over 60 common threads, some of which include: acids, african honeybees, allergies, ants, apistan, bears, bees, beekeeping, books, breed, brood, boy scout merit badge, buckfast, bumblebee, candles, chalkbrood, dented bees, equipment, extraction, fables, feeding, foulbrood, foundation, gloves, hive, honey, honeybee, insurance, dance language, purple loosestrife, lotion, mites, moving hives, nosema, nucs, observation hives, packaged bees, plastic, pollen and pollination, propolis, queens, smoke, sting, subscribing and unsubscribing, swarms, venom, virus, wax, wintering bees and yellow jackets. My program also identifies what logs should be perused to review the common thread. Unfortunately there is only minimal intelligence in my program, 'Subject:' headers may or may not be pertinent to the body of the post, and regardless, there is still a lot to download and wade through to get at the information one seeks. The common threads point to subjects that could/should/perhaps are covered in an FAQ, but what remains to be done is for someone to collect the logs and separate the wheat from the chaff. I will be happy to give to any volunteer, the list of what logs to peruse to get information regarding any of the above subjects, in exchange for an edited edition of posts pertaining to the requested subject matter. This could serve to augment topics covered in the FAQ maintained by Adam Finklestein. Any takers on this one time offer? Send requests for log indices to me directly, spare the list the traffic. Aaron Morris - thinking there's a book out there, if one could only edit it! ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 26 Jul 1996 14:21:19 +0000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Les Simms Organization: BeeLines Subject: Beekeeping Visits to Ireland Hello Beelovers, I have been asked to explore contacts with beekeeping associations in Northern Europe with a view to arranging exchange visits to Ireland. Initiallty, can anyone forward the addresses of secretaries of associations in France, Belgium, Holland, Switzerland etc., or other countries in NW Europe. Presently the enquirer is trying to obtain travel funding for these visits and he may be contacted by snail mail: David Sloan, 103 Moneygran Road, Moyknock, Kilreagh, Co. Londonderry, BT51 5SL N.Ireland. Tel. +44 1266 540000 I would also be able to forward e-mail to him via Many thanks, Les Simms. D R O M O R E & D I S T R I C T B E E K E E P E R S Estd. 1984 ~ World Cup Winners 1991-92 ~ Blue Ribbon Winners 1994 Affiliated to the UBKA Incorporating "Dromore Buzzette" Chairman~Michael Young Secretary~Bob Shaw Treasurer~Les Simms E-Mail: Telephone: +44(0)1846-683512 S-Mail: 9 Governors Ridge Park, Hillsborough, Co.Down, BT26 6LD, UK ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 26 Jul 1996 09:14:14 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: STEVE PHILLIPS Subject: Swarming then queenless In the area I live, northeast Kansas, swarming has been unusually bad for everyone, I guess because it was an unusually wet spring. The swarms were all very late for this area, all after June 1. Five of my six hives swarmed, one in mid July. All of my hives that swarmed ended up queenless. I have heard many other beekeepers in the area have had the same problem. What causes queenlessness after a swarm. My hives that swarmed all had empty queen cells in them. Where did the queens go? -Steve Phillips- -Perry, KS- phillips@at01po.wpo.state.ks.us ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 26 Jul 1996 14:37:01 +0100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Dave Black Subject: Re: Apistan Reuse In-Reply-To: <19960726111334.AAA29984@LOCALNAME> In message <19960726111334.AAA29984@LOCALNAME>, "Franklin D. Humphrey Sr" writes > >I've been watching as this thread progressed and had hoped it would die the >death it so richly deserves. I to have seen colonies survive with Apistan >that has been reused. >fact that a colony survived, does not prove that it is a good practice to >reuse strips. >If nothing else, I like my bees to much not to do everything possible >to insure their survival. Well said that man ! Forget this nonsense about 'accidentally stumbling on varroa resistant colonies and I'm going to breed from it.' How many of us have actually successfully selectivly breed for *any* characteristic whatsoever. It took Brother Adam 50 years and trips all over the world to come up with Buckfast, what makes you think you can do better ! Get on with managing your bees damit. (yes, it is a little provacative isn't it. Sorry.) -- Dave Black Blacks Bee Gardens, Guildford, GU1 4RN. UK. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 26 Jul 1996 10:38:20 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: CR Johnson Subject: SUBSCRIRE change Comments: To: Dr Jim Tew 7/26/96 9:37 AM SUBSCRIRE change SUBSCRIRE change of address old cr_johnson@pobox.tbe.com NEW address is cr.johnson@pobox.tbe.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 26 Jul 1996 13:19:00 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Mike Beluch Subject: Bleak Future & NZ quarrel.. As much as Ian Watson seconded the motion, I'll third it. Mr. Patton, if you have a problem with the BRL, take it up with them. Upon contacting them, it is my understanding that Mr. Eyre is quite correct, and Mr. Patton, that your facts are incorrect once again. However, as a neutral party, I would encourage you to offer your critisims to the BRL in a forum where they can be addressed and viewed by the BEE-L list. Email Dr. Hachiro Shimanuki (Research Leader) at the BRL (hshimanuki@asrr.arsusda.gov) for a direct reply. If you are not willing to do this, I would agree with the other Bee-L'ers, and ask you to please, TAKE IT OFF THE LIST. Because in fact, if you are wrong, then you are trashing one of the only organizations which will spearhead any efforts in diagnosing, treating, and preventing bee diseases in the US. Respectfully, Mike Beluch ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------------------------------------- On Thu, 25 Jul 1996, David Eyre wrote: > Walter Patton wrote > >Bleak Yes I would agree that things do look a little bleak > > for U.S. honeybees with continued importation of Canadian > >honeybees fresh off > >the airplane from New Zealand with the following > > honeybee pests and diseases known to be on the N.Z. > >honeybees. > > > Once again, it would appear that Mr. Patton has his facts backwards, > and his continued tirade against the New Zealanders is becoming a trifle > boring, to say the least. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 26 Jul 1996 13:42:39 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jim Moore DTN276-9448 ogo1/e17 508-496-9448 Subject: Re: Swarming then queenless I too have had a time of it getting a queenless hive to succeed in getting a queen back to the hive and laying. The hive in question was a swarm that I caught and hived but then it swarmed leaving behind the queenless bees. Two attempts of adding a frame of eggs and brood and having 12 swams cells the first time and then 6 supersedure cells the second but still no queen has left me with a hive I'm about to join with another! (It was interesting to see the difference between the first attempt and second; swarm cell versus supersedure cells.) Reduced drone numbers due to mites, weather, fewer hives may be having an effect. Never having attempted to get a queenless hive to make a queen I'm not sure what the batting average should be though. I decide to try and have the bees make a queen rather than buy one as I would learn more in the process. So far I have learned alot more. I was thinking that by the second attempt (after 4 weeks without a queen) that the hive might be making some laying workers. If the hive constructs queen cells does that mean there are no laying workers yet? Or better said will the presence of laying workers suppress the urge to make queen cells? Will laying worker or their sisters tear down queen cells or kill the queen? Jim Moore moore@aiag.enet.dec.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 26 Jul 1996 14:20:45 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Deb & Greg Kalicin Organization: HARMONY FARM Subject: Polish Beekeeper's We would be interested in meeting any Polish Beekkeepers on our trip to Poland in September. We will be in Warsaw, Ulanow and Krakow if anyone knows any beekeepers please let us know or give them our address. Deb & Greg Kalicin (Kalicinski) ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 25 Jun 1996 12:56:03 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: CHANCHAN Subject: tipos de abejas silvestres Comments: To: bee-l%albnyvm1.BITNET@uunet.uu.net Trujillo, 26 de Julio de 1996. De mi especial consideracion: He tenido conocimiento que tienen trabajos sobre tipos de abejas. Mucho agradecere se sirvan remitir informacion sobre el tema, ya que me encuentro realizando un trabajo de investigacion sobre abejas silvestres. Atentamente Biologo Luis Pollack Velasquez Facultad de Ciencias Biologicas Universidad Nacional de Trujillo E-mail: pollack@unitru.edu.pe ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 26 Jul 1996 15:32:55 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: David Eyre Subject: Re: Swarming then queenless > I was thinking that by the second attempt >(after 4 weeks without a queen) that the hive might be >making some laying workers. If the hive constructs >queen cells does that mean there are no laying workers >yet? Or better said will the presence of laying workers >suppress the urge to make queen cells? Will laying >worker or their sisters tear down queen cells or kill >the queen? I would say 'Yes' to all of the above. I have noticed that when a hive has made cells, they emerge, the virgin then goes out to mate. If she doesn't come back, for what ever reason, then the hive waits and waits for that queen to come back. Now try and get them to make more cells is almost impossible, they have made up their mind and nothing will dissuade them. They want a mated queen, if you give them one, it will be readily accepted. What to do in this case? Go ahead and unite them, queen in the top box, newspaper between, or, add a laying queen. After uniting, leave for a few days, make a nuc. Then they will raise a new queen. We have seen no comments regarding EAS '96, we are going so we shall be off the Bee-L for one week. We hope some of you are also going, or we are going to be very lonely. ;-)) **************************************************** * David Eyre 9 Progress Drive, Unit 2, * * The Beeworks, Orillia, Ontario, L3V 6H1. * * beeworks@muskoka.net 705-326-7171 * * http://www.muskoka.net/~beeworks * * Agents for: E H Thorne & B J Sherriff UK. * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 26 Jul 1996 22:09:53 +0200 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Luc Noel Subject: Re: Beekeeping Visits to Ireland >Initiallty, can anyone forward the addresses of secretaries of >associations in France, Belgium, Holland, Switzerland etc., or other >countries in NW Europe. > For the frenchspeaking part of Belgium, the best contact is the CARI (Centre for apiarian research and information). This centre is based at the Catholic University of Louvain. The CARI organizes superior courses, publishes a technical magazine (in french), make fundamental research about pollination, analyses the honeys, gives advice to the beekeepers in a lot of topics. E-Mail of the CARI : Bruneau@ecol.ucl.ac.be Adress : CARI, Place Croix du Sud 4, 1348 Louvain-la-Neuve, Belgium. Tel: 32/10 47 34 16. Fax 32/10 47 34 90. Name of the director : Etienne Bruneau. Best regards. Luc Noel E-Mail : lnoel@arcadis.be ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 26 Jul 1996 16:00:28 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: John Caldeira Subject: Re: Apistan Reuse Thank you, Sondoz rep for your informative note. I guess you realize that there is a lot of misinformation floating around about this subject. -John To Frank Humphrey, who wrote on 7/26/96: > I to have seen colonies survive with Apistan >that has been reused. I have also seen colonies survive without it. So the >fact that a colony survived, does not prove that it is a good practice to >reuse strips. I just proves that the colony survived. I Agree 100%. Hope you didn't misinterprete my earlier note that simply sought FACTS on the subject. Cheers, John in Dallas ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 27 Jul 1996 03:14:33 +0000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Franklin D. Humphrey Sr" Subject: Re: Swarming then queenless At 02:14 PM 7/26/96 +0000, you wrote: >In the area I live, northeast Kansas, swarming has been unusually bad >for everyone, I guess because it was an unusually wet spring. The >swarms were all very late for this area, all after June 1. Five of my six >hives swarmed, one in mid July. > >All of my hives that swarmed ended up queenless. I have heard many >other beekeepers in the area have had the same problem. What causes >queenlessness after a swarm. My hives that swarmed all had empty >queen cells in them. Where did the queens go? > > -Steve Phillips- > -Perry, KS- > phillips@at01po.wpo.state.ks.us > > Hi Steve Unfortunately I know what causes most of my lost virgin queens. They are called Mockingbird and Cardinal. They sit on the ground in front of the hives and catch bees. Ordinarily I don't mind but it would seem that they catch just about every queen that flies. In that yard, I have only gotten 1 good queen and 1 runt queen mated this year. The runt was a mistake of course. If it weren't illegal, I think I would like to shoot a few and maybe discourage the rest. Frank Humphrey beekeeper@worldnet.att.net ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 27 Jul 1996 03:14:43 +0000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Franklin D. Humphrey Sr" Subject: Re: Formic Acid At 03:04 AM 7/25/96 +0000, you wrote: >Does anyone on the BEE-L know how the quest to have formic acid approved for >use in the U.S. doing? > >The last thing that I read about it was that the studies were in the hands of >the quality assurance division of the IR-4 and should have gone to the EPA in >March. > >Thanks, >Ralph Harrison >Milford, CT > >Member >Western CT Beekeepers Association > Hi Ralph I attended a seminar a few weeks ago and the consensus among the scientist attending, was that formic acid would be approved, at least for limited use, by the end of the year. They made their assumptions based on their discussions with the USDA. Frank Humphrey beekeeper@worldnet.att.net ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 27 Jul 1996 00:39:37 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Michael Moroney Subject: Re: Abandon hives In-Reply-To: < > Now..the question is this....The hives themselves look like they were > never painted or protected in any way..the wood is warped and > weather-beaten. So i am afraid to move them as they are. Plus..the > frames are completely propolized and there is burr comb > everywhere....impossible to remove the frames. So..i tried putting a box > of dark comb ontop...plus a box of foundation...but nothing has > happened... The queen refuses to come up into my equipment and lay.... > How do i get her ..and the colony..up into my sturdy equipment to i can > move them to my apiary. I think it would be a shame to not take > advantage of this queens obvious characteristics.. Here's a crazy idea: If the bees have glued the frames to the point where they won't move, place the old hive body _upside down_ on the bottom board and the new one on top (right side up). Hopefully the queen will reject the cells sloped the wrong way and eventually wander upstairs and find cells more to her liking. Once you know where she is separate her from the old body with a queen excluder until the brood emerges. -Mike ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 27 Jul 1996 12:27:36 +0000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Franklin D. Humphrey Sr" Subject: Re: Abandon hives At 04:39 AM 7/27/96 +0000, you wrote: >> Now..the question is this....The hives themselves look like they were >> never painted or protected in any way..the wood is warped and >> weather-beaten. So i am afraid to move them as they are. Plus..the >> frames are completely propolized and there is burr comb >> everywhere....impossible to remove the frames. So..i tried putting a box >> of dark comb ontop...plus a box of foundation...but nothing has >> happened... The queen refuses to come up into my equipment and lay.... >> How do i get her ..and the colony..up into my sturdy equipment to i can >> move them to my apiary. I think it would be a shame to not take >> advantage of this queens obvious characteristics.. > >Here's a crazy idea: If the bees have glued the frames to the point where >they won't move, place the old hive body _upside down_ on the bottom board >and the new one on top (right side up). Hopefully the queen will reject the >cells sloped the wrong way and eventually wander upstairs and find cells more >to her liking. Once you know where she is separate her from the old body with >a queen excluder until the brood emerges. > >-Mike > > Hi Michael If you think the hive is to fragile to move. Get you some good quality cloth reinforced duct tape and cocoon it. The stuff only cost a couple of bucks a roll and you will probably need2 to 3 rolls. When you lift the hive, it may feel wobbly but this stuff will hold it together. Once in your bee yard you can try all sorts of things. The easiest would be to do as someone else said and drum the queen up and put and excluder under her. This way you would retain all the brood and stored honey in the old hive. I have never used a rubber hammer to drum bees but two good sized sticks work very well. Drumming is the way people used to get bees out of old gums and into new ones. Just set the new hive on top of the old one and start beating on the sides of the old hive at a steady pace. Wear good protection because the bees don't appreciate someone beating on their house any more than you would. Start at the bottom and work your way up. Once the queen is up, put an excluder under her. Many of the nurse bees will return to the old hive to attend brood. They will remove honey to feed brood in both chambers. They probably won't remove the pollen as bees seldom move pollen from one chamber to another. Frank Humphrey beekeeper@worldnet.att.net ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 27 Jul 1996 21:08:07 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Richard Chapin Subject: Formic Acid >>Does anyone on the BEE-L know how the quest to have formic acid approved for >>use in the U.S. doing? >>The last thing that I read about it was that the studies were in the hands of >>the quality assurance division of the IR-4 and should have gone to the EPA in >>March. >>Ralph Harrison >I attended a seminar a few weeks ago and the consensus among the scientist >attending, was that formic acid would be approved, at least for limited use, >by the end of the year. They made their assumptions based on their >discussions with the USDA. >>Frank Humphrey We were told at our association meeting that EPA was holding up the approval of formic acid and would require many months before approval. I wrote to my congressman, he wrote to EPA, & they responded that the approved producer (will look up the name after EAS next week, if anyone wants it -- think it is Mann Lake) had not yet submitted a proposal. I called the producer, and was told that they had submitted two proposals, both rejected (EPA doesn't recognize rejected proposals), and that a third proposal was imminent. When asked if we might look for approval by this fall, the answer was: don't count on it. Dick Chapin Montrose, PA Susquehanna Beekeepers' Assn. (\ {|||8- (/ ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 27 Jul 1996 23:25:04 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Tom Allen Subject: Re: Apistan Strips I like your attitude about the basis for comparison and the needs for control of material used and the need to replicate an experiment. The problems in conducting such an experiment is controlling the environmentduring the experiment. I am not sure that one can really replicate such an experiment because of the changes in environment. Let us say that in 1996 we have lower than average daytime temperatures, more fog than usual and heavy rains. These conditions may be more favorable to the flowers in the area, provide more natural pollen and richer nectar.So the colony of bees grows well. What about the mites or the mold oriented diseases? They may also thrive, but how do we know.? Next season we try to replicate the size of colony, the treatments used, but there is nothing we can do to replicate the weather we can only record the differences and make an intelligent guess of the effect of the differences. Can you describe or direct me to literature on measuring the effect of trachael mites and the devices needed to observe them. -- End --