Received: from [169.226.1.21] by relay.internode.net (SMTPD32-3.02) id AD811B11004C; Tue, 12 Nov 1996 13:26:41 -0700 Received: from CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU by CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU (IBM VM SMTP V2R2) with BSMTP id 6927; Tue, 12 Nov 96 15:30:34 EST Received: from CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU (NJE origin LISTSERV@ALBNYVM1) by CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU (LMail V1.2c/1.8c) with BSMTP id 2696; Tue, 12 Nov 1996 15:30:30 -0500 Date: Tue, 12 Nov 1996 15:30:28 -0500 From: "L-Soft list server at ALBNYVM1 (1.8b)" Subject: File: "BEE-L LOG9608A" To: "W. Allen Dick" X-UIDL: 386 Status: U ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 08:22:30 EET Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Dzintars Striks Organization: LATVIA POSTOFFICE Subject: Bee Venom Does anybody know where is possible sell Bee Venom? Dzintars Striks Email:DZINTARS@roze.riga.post.lv t.371-7018769 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 10:38:44 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Tom Allen Subject: Re: Drone Laying Colonies Comments: To: beeman@kuai.se Is there any way to increase the count of drone cells.In my best hive I see only a couple of dozen drone cells. Is this enough .I have two brood chambers and four honey supers at work currently.Will do a summer harvest this week and watch the production of goldenrod honey soon. This has been a cool moist season here in New England and the golden rod and queen annslace are now coming into bloom.Milkweed is also flowering out. The queens are making lots of brood .If they are doing well and the colonies strong will the production of drone cells be reduced, until the desire for a new queen increases. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 10:40:14 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Tom Allen Subject: Re: Bleak future? I don't know how hard it is for large professional beekeepers to avoid diseases and premature death of colonies, but from what I gather those of us who use preventive medicine proceedures faired about as badly as those who did nothing last year. I am sticking by the Apistan ,terramycin. menthol practive with the added step of using Mite Solution during the summer months. It is hard to guess what will happen. I am optimistic that with care and proper feeding to build up more strong colonies this summer for next years production I will probably get through the winter better this year. Also my insulated hive did better than my uninsulated ones in the past.This winter all will get insulation which has now been fabricated. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 10:39:32 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Tom Allen Subject: Re: Suggestions please... Having had some problems , that I questionably assign to skunks owing to their odor around my house about 400 feet from my apiary, I installed a loose fence of 3/8 inch square wiring in front of my hives. No problems since either from skunks or racoons.They probably found some easier taragets elsewhere. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 10:37:30 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Tom Allen Subject: Re: Wanted: Hive stand designs/descriptions Hive stands may differ considerably from environmental differences.My apiary is on a rise in a hill with granite ledge beneath. I first cast two concrete footing on the slope to give a level platform for concrete blocks which raise the least end to about 14 inches above soil. Two or more concrete block piers are provided for each 7 foot platform across which I originally placed surplus doors since replaced with 5/4rough cut pine planks. Using the planks instead of the doors I am able to buil in an automatic water supplu 4 inches wide by the length between the piers. I place one hive above each pier with room for placing work in process between them and off the ground. The platforms are strong enough to allow me to stand on them between the hives and lfit off one super at a time. The number of concrete blocks differ in that the ground is no where near level.I use some standard blocks and some 2 inch thick ones. I built in a pitch to the front side over abut 1/2 in per foot to asssure that the bottom board drains. In the winter a foam plastic polyester insulation board is assembled around each hive up to the top of the brood chambers .This may not be necessary but those so protected have done better than unprotected ones. My sheets of foam are dovetailed and spiked together. The spike just pushes in and can be pulled out in the spring. I will take some photos and mail them to anyone who requests same. All of this is nothing unusual. , just teh way I learned to do it from and Essex Couonty (mass) member. You also asked about "what not to do" Don't rush your carpentry . May first wooden stand slid downhill and collapsed.I had to pick up X thousand disturbed bees and reset them on a better stand.Oddly enough they were more concerned about their queen and their homes than me . I didn't get stung even once although I was poorly attired at the moment. I even picked up some clusters of bees bare handed and put them on a super rop frame.They settled in happily. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 10:39:25 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Tom Allen Subject: Re: Baggie Feeder Thanks for your info on baggie feeder practice. I presume that the slits you cut are on the top side of the baggies. Please advise if so. I strated my first one last week with punctures rather than slits and was amazes how quickly the bees accepted it. In previous New England inters I have used 1 gallon containers In a deep super with lots of newspaper for interior insulation.With the baggies in a shallow super I should be able to get quite a wide spread of accessable bag surface .WIll try some measurements tomorrow. Since the bags are flexible the ddanger of spilling is minimized. People have warned me that the changes in temperature can cause bottles to leak on warm days and make a damp hive.I guess that this is less likelyu to happen with baggies. What do you think.? Gosh here it is July 31 and I'm thinking of winter already !! ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 11:35:44 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Tim Peters Subject: Re: Baggie Feeder At 10:43 AM 8/1/96 -0500, you wrote: > >Thanks for your info on baggie feeder practice. I presume that the slits you >cut are on the top side of the baggies. Please advise if so. I took a cue from Frank Humphries on this subject also and had a Brushy Mtn catalog sent so I could see what they were selling. In it they confirm your presumtion that the slits ARE placed on the TOP of the bags. > >I strated my first one last week with punctures rather than slits and was >amazes how quickly the bees accepted it. I'm excited to hear this but still have trouble visualizing the process. Do the bees come up into the super holding the baggies to take the syrup or does the syrup just gradually seep out and down into the hive? Can you re-use the slit baggies? Am I cheap or what? I plan to follow Frank's advise on using an excluder to support the bags. Did you use that method or did you let them rest on the frame tops? > >In previous New England inters I have used 1 gallon containers In a deep >super with lots of newspaper for interior insulation. In the past I have used 1 gal pails w/o insulation successfully up to Thanksgiving (11/25). Last year I switched to divison board feeders and was dis-satisfied. I think it had a lot to do with the early onset of cold temps in that long, cold winter (brrr!) The girls were unwilling to move out to the sides of the brood chambers to take the syrup from the feeders. Thankfully I left enough honey on for winter stores. > Tim Peters, Kirby VT tpeters@kingcon.com KirBee Apiary, Bear Bait Honey I rather be flying! ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 11:36:16 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Tim Peters Subject: Aaron Morris address Aaron: What is your email address? I have mail for you regarding the Bee-L log project. Tim Peters ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 11:37:51 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Tim Peters Subject: Re: Bleak Winter? At 10:39 AM 8/1/96 -0500, you wrote: > > >the winter better this year. Also my insulated hive did better than my >uninsulated ones in the past.This winter all will get insulation which has >now been fabricated > In my limited experience I have had more success going with no hive insulation, but providing solid stockade fencing - 6' high to project against the prevailing N-NW winds. This method has worked on both short/mild and long/cold winters. I have only lost one of five hives; and that hive was a weak late season swarm. By contrast when I was using insulation I would typically lose 1 of 2 hives (usually the stronger of the two) each winter due to condensation/moisture build-up in the hives (even with an upper entrance/vent). Temps in this part of VT regularly reach -30F (-35 is my personal coldest)for 4-7 days at a time. I do look forward to deep snows to add some natural insulation around the sides and back of the hives. I clear snow away from the front (southern exposure) so that the sun beats down on the hives for several hours each sunny day. Tim Peters, Kirby VT tpeters@kingcon.com KirBee Apiary, Bear Bait Honey I rather be flying! ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 14:20:35 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Ron J. Bogansky" Subject: Looking for Greener Pastures Hi I have been reading BEE-L for almost two years, although this is my first post. I receive it in digest form at work (I was never sure if I could reply via that format.) I read it first thing in the morning and really enjoy it. I feel like I know some of the regulars. It is a great source of info. Anyway, the reason I am writing is a question I have. I have a small operation, 23 colonies AM (after mites), in eastern PA. A friend, who runs about 150 colonies, and I were talking about yields per colony. Then he told me he was looking to move. The reported average per colony in PA is about 40 lbs. although most good colonies will easily double or triple that in a good year. But that is still not a lot of honey compared to some locations that report 200 -300 lbs per colony. We still have the same cost per colony but not the yield. He is not interested in a migratory operation. He has mentioned the Dakotas, Montana region as an area he has read about. So, here it is. A chance for you to say "mine is bigger than yours". We would like some info, good or bad, on different areas of the US. Not to offend members outside the US, please feel free to respond although I don't think he wants to go that far. If you would rather respond directly that's great but I think this could start a fun string for a while. One request; please keep the exaggeration to a mimimum, he will take this information very serious. One final note, I travel a lot in my job, primarily Northwest and Southwest, and I am always hoping to meet other beekeepers. If you are in Seattle, Portland, or Phoenix areas, send me a note. Maybe we can meet over coffee ( I'll buy). Thanks, Ron Bogansky Milk & Honey Farm Kutztown, PA ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 12:03:00 PDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Dan Mihalyfi Subject: Re: Looking for Greener Pastures Comments: cc: bogansrj@ttown.apci.com Here is my report on greener pastures... I started keeping bees here in Santa Cruz, California about four years ago. We are located on the ocean side of the Santa Cruz Mountains about half way between San Francisco and Monterey CA. We tend to experience long drawn out honey flows, beginning in December and continuing through July. My per hive average is about 100 lbs. Ormond Aebi of Santa Cruz, set a Guiness World Record for the most honey from a single queen hive in a single season back in the 70's. I believe it was 400+ few odd pounds. You can look it up in an old Guiness from the Mid 1970's. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 12:37:20 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Adony Melathopoulos Subject: Re: Drone Laying Colonies In-Reply-To: <960801103844_250467533@emout10.mail.aol.com> On Thu, 1 Aug 1996, Tom Allen wrote: > Is there any way to increase the count of drone cells. In my best hive I see > only a couple of dozen drone cells. I do not know what the root of the problem is, but a couple of us at the University have been caging the queens over empty drone cells for about a day using queen excluding mesh, in order to raise our drone production. It usually works pretty good. We have found that it is important that a colony have enough pollen and nectar to accept the drone larvae once they hatch (and we typically supplement with pollen patties and syrup). For a while we had a queen that would lay nothing but drone brood, and she was a good source of drone brood. We kept that colony going for a very long time by continously supplying it with uncapped worker brood. It proved to be a lot of work tho, and we eventually requeened that colony. Alida Janmatt, a scientist in our lab, has more experience with these techniques. > Is this enough ? I don't know. It might be a waste of time to go to all the effort. I think you need at least a couple of dozen drones in the air at a time to ensure mating. Since they aggregate at a mating area, i'm not sure how much over that number needs to be achieved. Cheers, Adony ######################################## *** Adony Melathopoulos **************** ***** Center for Pest Management ******* ******** Simon Fraser University ******* *********** Burnaby, British Coumbia *** ************** CANADA ****************** ######################################## 'If men had wings and bore black feathers, few of them would be clever enough to be crows' - Rev. Henry Ward Beecher, mid-1800's e-mail : melathop@sfu.ca tel : (604) 291-4163 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 19:09:46 +0000 Reply-To: james.peterson.2@m.k12.ut.us Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: James Max Peterson Organization: UtahLink Subject: Re: Setting up used hives Hi: For your paint job: First coat should be an oil based pre coat. Then follow that with two coats of 100% acrlick latex paint. Should last years if you use good paint. James Peterson If It Is To Be, It is up to me. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 22:06:44 PST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Steven A. Creasy" Subject: Using E-Mail on the Internet:sci.agriculture.beekeeping I just wanted to let you all know something I found out about Internet E-Mail. I asked the question about sci.agriculture.beekeeping the other day, and was told that I had to have an Internet service to read usenets like the one above. I have since found this to be in error. There is a wonderful resource from MIT that explains how to view newsgroups (usenet), FTP, WWW, & etc. all with only INTERNET E-MAIL! Send E-Mail to Mail-server@RTFM.MIT.EDU with the body of the message being: send usenet/news.answers/internet-services/access-via-email This rather long file will explain how to do lots of things with only E-Mail capabilities! For those of you on a tight budget (beekeepers love a bargain) there is a company called JUNO which offers COMPLETELY FREE internet E-mail in the US. There is no sign up fee, no registration of software, and even the call is free in most areas. To get the free software, send mail to signup@juno.com with the body containing your name, and regular mailing address. They will send you out a free copy, which you can then freely distribute to all your friends. I have been on the service for about a month and love it! Good luck to you all! Steve in Knoxville, TN ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 22:14:12 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Michael L. Wallace" Subject: Re: Looking for Greener Pastures At 02:20 8/1/96 -0400, you wrote: >---------------------- Information from the mail header ----------------------- >Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology >Poster: "Ron J. Bogansky" >Subject: Looking for Greener Pastures >------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > >Hi >I have been reading BEE-L for almost two years, although this is my first >post. I receive it in digest form at work (I was never sure if I could >reply via that format.) I read it first thing in the morning and really >enjoy it. I feel like I know some of the regulars. It is a great source >of info. > >Anyway, the reason I am writing is a question I have. I have a small >operation, 23 colonies AM (after mites), in eastern PA. A friend, who runs >about 150 colonies, and I were talking about yields per colony. Then he >told me he was looking to move. The reported average per colony in PA is >about 40 lbs. although most good colonies will easily double or triple >that in a good year. But that is still not a lot of honey compared to some >locations that report 200 -300 lbs per colony. We still have the same >cost per colony but not the yield. He is not interested in a migratory >operation. He has mentioned the Dakotas, Montana region as an area he has >read about. > >So, here it is. A chance for you to say "mine is bigger than yours". We >would like some info, good or bad, on different areas of the US. Not to >offend members outside the US, please feel free to respond although I don't >think he wants to go that far. If you would rather respond directly >that's great but I think this could start a fun string for a while. One >request; please keep the exaggeration to a mimimum, he will take this >information very serious. > >One final note, I travel a lot in my job, primarily Northwest and >Southwest, and I am always hoping to meet other beekeepers. If you are >in Seattle, Portland, or Phoenix areas, send me a note. Maybe we can meet >over coffee ( I'll buy). > >Thanks, >Ron Bogansky >Milk & Honey Farm >Kutztown, PA > It is not uncommon in the area of Texas, where I live, (Dallas/Ft. Worth) to yield 100-200 lbs./colony. That's just keeping your colonies in one location. Your friend says he doesn't want to migrate, but he could get much higher yields by doing so. Of course, it's his call. However, by migrating you can get a much earlier start on honey production and also extend the production at the end of the season. Regards, Mike Wallace Sar Shalom Apiary McKinney, Texas USA "Out of the heart, the mouth speaks." ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 22:14:16 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Michael L. Wallace" Subject: Re: Honey/Brood in supers -Reply At 07:58 7/31/96 +0600, you wrote: >------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology >Poster: Bill Painter >Subject: Re: Honey/Brood in supers -Reply >------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > >Last night I moved the top super that was full of honey on the bottom, just >above the second full sized box. I then took the bottom supper and put it >on top (most of it was eggs). Then I got to thinking what if the queen is >now up in this what is now the top super. Will she cross honey to go back >down into the hive? > Bill, I was going to write and warn about locating the queen before doing anything else, but I see it's too late. Normally a queen will not cross "the honey barrier", such as a super of honey. However, I have seen exceptions to the rule. I kept having trouble with a queen who wanted to lay in the top super and not in the brood chamber. I did, basically, what you did. I did the "super shuffle", but it didn't work. I had to force all the bees down, using BEE-GO and then put a queen excluder on to keep her in the bottom. Hope this answers your question. Cheers, Mike Wallace Sar Shalom Apiary McKinney, Texas USA "Out of the heart, the mouth speaks." ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 2 Aug 1996 03:28:00 GMT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Andy Nachbaur Organization: WILD BEE'S BBS (209) 826-8107 LOS BANOS, CA Subject: Re: Drone Laying Colonies TA>From: Tom Allen >Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 10:38:44 -0400 >Subject: Re: Drone Laying Colonies TA>Is there any way to increase the count of drone cells.In my best hive I see >bloom.Milkweed is also flowering out. The queens are making lots of brood .I >they are doing well and the colonies strong will the production of drone >cells be reduced, until the desire for a new queen increases. Personal observations by myself and others working with bee diets and testing different pollens as bee foods we saw and used as a tool to rate different diets that if the bees would rear drones then the diet was OK. The more drones the better the diet. All of the testing I did was during the long winter periods we have here in central California when the bees do not fly at all but the temperature is not so cold that the bees can not make lots of brood if they are well fed. The results were amazing but not cost effective, but there was no problem rearing drone brood if the bees were kept well fed. From my personal experiences rearing drones it is easier in the early spring when there is a good mix of pollen coming in. The normal for pollen is that the mixtures are better then single source pollens. There is one exception and this pollen was used as a standard in tests, but it is not a pollen that is available to many so I won't go into detail. Bees will draw out full sheets of drone foundation very early in the spring if it is provided and a good diet is used, or provided by mother nature. They will bypass regular brood foundation for the drone and the queens will lay it wall to wall. But feeding must continue if you want the bees to rear the drones to adults, and even then if you can not keep conditions more or less flush for the hive the drones will be in constant jeopardy when bad times approach for the hive as they will not take care of most of them without your help. Some pollens are not good at all for anything but to plug up the frames until the bees can work it out when other sources are available. Many of the fall pollens fit into this category and many beekeepers find to their dismay that sometimes hives that they thought were OK a few weeks prior dwindle down fast but still have heavy amounts of pollen in the combs, no bees but lots of pollen. Most of the California fall Tar Weeds fit into this category as do pollen from some of the grasses, (rice), and corns. Poor pollen and no pollens are about equal in the long term effects on a bee hives populations and general health. They go from being big strong "ball busters" to weak little "dinks", sometimes in a short span of man's time. I have seen it work both ways, that is bees on a freak winter honey flow fill up with honey and at the same time dwindle down to nothing because of the lack of pollen and little brood rearing to replace the ageing field bees. Poor quality pollen produces poor quality bees that are not long lived, can not invert sugars, or produce brood food without prematurely ageing. Diet is the one thing that makes the difference between having good bees or not having them for long. The same can be said for the number of drones tolerated in the average hive. When things are good, lots of drones, and when things go bad, death to the drones. But never all of them, at least I have never seen it reported that a virgin queen did not get mated because there were NO drones available to do the job not withstanding the normal flight restrictions due to bad flight conditions or beekeepers overstocking a drone deficient area, as some areas will not allow for the attraction of drones no matter how many are in flight range. Bee breeders soon learn which areas are good and which are poor or get a lot of complaints about queen supersedure. One of the worries early on with the plague of vampire mites which the preferred hosts is drone brood was that there would be no drones to mate the queens, but as far as I can find out this has only been a fear and not a realized or reported fact, yet. The down side to all this is that drones in most stock have no sense of belonging and when they fly with vampire mites holding on for dear life they will venture in to just about any hive between here and there. Doing so spreads the little blood sucking mites, and good and bad things of every description. I am sure all this has something to do with the Einstein's Big Blast Theory or some such variations on a theme, but thats the way it is and some will not accept it and work their whole beekeeping life killing and discouraging the rearing of drones and if they do enough of it for a long enough period of time they will for sure see every kind of disaster that nature can reward a beekeeper with, but so will the keeper of bees that makes an effort to have a abundance of his favorite drones ready for any job that ventures into the air within several miles of his hives. Not sure who is right, but I like my drones and do nothing to discourage the hives from rearing them. I have noticed that when a hive has real drone foundation combs available to the queen there will be less of it in the worker brood combs. Dadant's at one time had the die's to make drone foundation and would run it on special request, but I don't know what is available today. What was the question?, Aaha, yes you can encourage more drone production by having drone combs that the queen can lay in, and providing supplemental food when needed, and sometimes that will bee during a fall wildflower bloom that produces pollen that is not the best for rearing brood. ttul the OLd Drone- (c) Permission is granted to freely copy this document in any form, or to print for any use. (w)Opinions are not necessarily facts. Use at own risk. --- ~ QMPro 1.53 ~ Let the honey flow!!!!! And the Drones GO!!! ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 21:33:52 -0700 Reply-To: uc779@freenet.victoria.bc.ca Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Conrad A. Berube" Subject: using bees as weapons Dave Green wrote: >I kicked around an idea with a couple friends, that we could design a gun >that would fire these rock-hard bees with no injury to them, and have them >revive as they were hurled through the warm air. What a great weapon that >would be! >My attempt to contribute to the war effort, I guess, was basically a >failure. The only lasting evidence of the great experiment is the popular >saying among the GI's: "Many are chilled, but few are frozen." Hmmmm... and not even April Fool's day. Well, I hope I'm not in danger of blowing my cover by revealing that such bee-bee guns (Apistols) are still the standard issue side-arm for us agents in Special Hymenopterations ;-) (and have been ever since they first appeared in the first chapter or so of Ray Bradbury's _Martian Chronicles_ (check your local library)... nothing new under the sun, I suppose) On a less frivolous note, the Tiv of Nigeria, during traditional intertribal warfare, kept bees in special horns also containing powdered poisons. Thus dusted to increase the efficacy of their own venom the bees would be released in the heat of battle to attack the Tiv's enemies (it is not, however, recorded why the bees do not succumb to the poison themselves nor how the bees distinguish between the Tiv and their foes. - Conrad Berube " ` ISLAND CROP MANAGEMENT " ` 2620 Queenswood Dr. _- -_`-_|'\ /` Victoria, B.C. _/ / / -' `~()() V8N 1X5 \_\ _ /\-._/\/ (604)477-5220; fax (604)656-8922 / | | email: uc779@freenet.victoria.bc.ca '` ^ ^ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 2 Aug 1996 01:33:28 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Michael Lance High Sr." Subject: Hive stands,reply Although I missed the original post, I assume it was asking the best materials to use for a stand(s). The best stands are made with whatever you have readily available,so long as it is sturdy.I work at the site of an old manufacturing plant converted to an industrial park.When assembling my stands, I looked for materials around the plant.The ideal solution for me was the steel ladders attached to buildigs and to tanks. Each is heavy steel, about 18" wide.They vary in length from 5 to 12 feet. I left the little steel tabs that attached the to the buildings for legs and laid the sideways.The hives sit perfectly leaving about an inch to inch & a half overhang front & back.The area of the rungs is slightly recessed & can be left open or filled by a couple of 2x6s as I did.I sit the legs on cinder blocks in anti freeze jug halfs filled with oil to keep out ants.Each hive sits about 16" from ground level making stacking & unstacking easy.I have never had a hive tip using this bench. The old man taught me bee-keeping and he had his hives in a bench he made from old 1 1/2" galvanized plumbing he had lkaying around. The key is to use whats available, use imagination, and make sure its sturdy. "I take my chances,I don't mind working without a net, I take my chances,I take my chances every chance I get" Mary Chapin Carpenter ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 2 Aug 1996 08:36:20 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Dave Einhorn Subject: Re: BEE STANDS Rodale Press has a book, "Build it Better Yourself". The book has a little of everything for the farm, including beehive, stands, and extractor plans. Dave Einhorn deinhorn@isnov.ab.umd.edu ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 2 Aug 1996 14:39:10 +0100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Simon Garrett Subject: Expert help urgently needed My friend lives in Wiltshire in the south of England and has a nest of bees in his garden. He also has a three year old son, a six months pregnant wife and two boisterous and inquisitive dogs. He fears one of all of them might come to grief. Neither of us knows any apiarists and the local council can only suggest extermination (of the bees that is). He would rather avoid that if possible. Can anyone offer/suggest help, please. Answers to sgarrett@globalnet.co.uk Simon Garrett sgarrett@globalnet.co.uk ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 2 Aug 1996 19:36:29 +0100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Paul Walton Subject: Re: Expert help urgently needed In-Reply-To: <199608021339.OAA07269@gollum.globalnet.co.uk> In article <199608021339.OAA07269@gollum.globalnet.co.uk>, Simon Garrett writes >My friend lives in Wiltshire in the south of England and has a nest of bees >in his garden. He also has a three year old son, a six months pregnant wife >and two boisterous and inquisitive dogs. He fears one of all of them might >come to grief. > >Neither of us knows any apiarists and the local council can only suggest >extermination (of the bees that is). He would rather avoid that if >possible. Can anyone offer/suggest help, please. > >Answers to sgarrett@globalnet.co.uk > >Simon Garrett >sgarrett@globalnet.co.uk Simon, Have you tried the local Police? They often maintain a book of people who have volunteered to help out in this sort of situation. I, myself, have been called upon to deal with just such a situation by the police. Good Luck -- Paul Walton Paul@adrem.demon.co.uk Toddington, Bedfordshire, England. Tel. +44 (0)1525 875570 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 2 Aug 1996 20:12:42 +0000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Franklin D. Humphrey Sr" Subject: Re: Baggie Feeder At 02:39 PM 8/1/96 +0000, you wrote: >Thanks for your info on baggie feeder practice. I presume that the slits you >cut are on the top side of the baggies. Please advise if so. > >I strated my first one last week with punctures rather than slits and was >amazes how quickly the bees accepted it. > >In previous New England inters I have used 1 gallon containers In a deep >super with lots of newspaper for interior insulation.With the baggies in a >shallow super I should be able to get quite a wide spread of accessable bag >surface .WIll try some measurements tomorrow. Since the bags are flexible the >ddanger of spilling is minimized. People have warned me that the changes in >temperature can cause bottles to leak on warm days and make a damp hive.I >guess that this is less likelyu to happen with baggies. What do you think.? >Gosh here it is July 31 and I'm thinking of winter already !! > Hi Tom I also had problems with pails and jars leaking on top of the hive. I also hate to open the hive and find a feeder full of drowned bees. I like the baggie feeder because it eliminates these problems altogether. The slits do indeed go on top of the bag. My bees have accepted this system so well that I can put in a bag, cut the slits and within minutes, the bees are lined up on both sides of each slit in a perfect row. One note of caution. The bees can remove the syrup and store it so quickly that the brood nest can become honey bound. If this becomes a problem, cut fewer and shorter slits in the bags so that they can't move it so fast. Someone else asked how it worked. The baggie is placed on the top of the hive inside and empty super, and then slits cut in the top of the bag. The first time you use this system, squeeze some syrup out and let it dribble on the bees so they will know it is up there. Then just add new bags as necessary. No drowned bees, no damp hives and very few ants. Frank Humphrey beekeeper@worldnet.att.net ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 2 Aug 1996 17:23:06 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Gray Haun Subject: Re: Greetings Dear Logan: I saw you message on Bee- l the other day. Hope your bees are doing well. Gray Haun State Apiarst ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 2 Aug 1996 22:17:01 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: James D Satterfield Subject: Bees flying into neighbor's swimming pool. I made an appeal for suggestions earlier related to a problem with "my" honeybees flying into the neighbor's swimming pool. The pool is bright blue, the bees weren't picking up water at the pool, they simply didn't appear to see the surface. Responses from BEE-Lner's were delightful, and I now summarize them: If the bees were picking up water at the pool: 1. "Scent the water in their home watering tubs to help them identify the source." I sprayed orange flavored sugar water on the tubs but got little increase in usage. Bees were already picking up water at my tubs. My neighbor who has the pool added some maple flavored syrup to his bird bath and, to no surprise, "my" bees prefer his water. 2. "Move the hives to a distant location for about 3 weeks, then bring them back and hope that they will home in on the beeyard tubs." I didn't try this since I have 17 top bar hives. 3. "Set up a hose pipe that drips water onto a slanting board; bees like to pick up water there." I added a sloping board to one of my tubs, but the bees still prefer to pick up water from the water hyacinth plants or the concrete blocks in the tubs. 4. "Is it possible to breed bees that can recognize danger, learn, and go tell of it to the other bees?" I don't know, but I'm looking for an immediate solution. If the bees are flying into the pool and not picking up water: 1. "Drain the pool and blame it on space aliens :)". Didn't try; my neighbor has a shotgun to protect against space aliens. 2. "Paint the pool dark brown. :)" Neighbor prefers blue. 3. "Pay for a glass enclosure. :)" My fixed income wouldn't permit. 4. "Expect the problem to abate if it is related to flight path generated by a particular honeyflow." Addressed in summary comments. 5. "Put bright yellow floats and ropes in the pool." This was suggested to my neighbor. Summary comments: I was convinced, by watching the bees, that they were *not* picking up water at the pool but were simply flying into the bright surface. I did not see any of them trying to turn upside down as has been reported for bees flying over bright snow...at least as best I could see. My neighbor now puts all of the floats and ropes in the pool before they expect to swim and finds that this has corrected the problem. An occasional bee will now fall in, but it isn't the large number earlier. There may be a confounding issue here, for the sourwood flow is ending and there is a good foraging area in the woods behind his house. Perhaps the forage flight paths have changed for the moment. I thank all of you who responded to my request. Incidentally, I reported that the giant european hornets were preying on my bees again this year. I received a response that confirmed that they fly at night also. I went out to my hives last night after dark, and, yes, there was one there trying to pick up a bee...didn't get the hornet with my soapy water spray bottle, but I will eventually. Cordially yours, Jim --------------------------------------------------------------- | James D. Satterfield | E-Mail: jsatt@gsu.edu | | -------------------------------- | 258 Ridge Pine Drive Canton is about 40 mi/64 km | | Canton, GA 30114, USA north of Atlanta, Georgia USA | | Telephone (770) 479-4784 | --------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 3 Aug 1996 06:06:24 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Charles Cannon Subject: Bees 0 bullants 1in Florida Hello there new to the list so bear with me fist post in all. I would like to know if anybody else is from FL. with any helpfull info on a safe way to get rid of bull ants they are starting to become a pain in the ass. I had a week colony hear at the house feeding them then last week i came home from work they had found them and attacked lost the intire hive. E-mail : artec@msn.com member8699@aol.com Let the honey flow!!!!! Thanks!!!!! ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 3 Aug 1996 06:03:40 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Charles Cannon Subject: Re: Baggie Feeder Has anybody tried Ziplock frezzer bags for a substitute baggie from out of a catallog i would think they will work they come in the quart and 1 gallon size? I was thinking about trying them useing a queen excluder to lay the bags on and a shallow supper. Any coments on the matter would be gratefull!!!! Or to tell me i'am crazy E-mail me at: artec@msn.com or member8699@aol.com Thank you for your time BEE END####### ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 3 Aug 1996 08:55:08 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Logan VanLeigh Subject: Re: Greetings Gray Haun wrote: > > Dear Logan: > > I saw you message on Bee- l the other day. Hope your bees are doing well. > > Gray Haun > State Apiarst Doin' fine. Extracted 7 gal Tue nite. Still have more to do after I rob it. (sheepish look) I just realized I hadn't registered yet, when Johnnie Green (1/4 mile down the road) asked if I'd gotten one of the questionairres/ newsletters from you folks. That will be taken care of today. Any authoritative word on adding formic acid to the arsenal. Lots of rumors, etc but no real word that I've seen. Logan Lenoir City ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 3 Aug 1996 07:57:54 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Joel Govostes Subject: Re: BEE STANDS The "standard" hive stand around here is made of 2x4 or 2x6 material, simply a rectangle which will hold 2 colonies with 6-18 inches between them. Having hives in pairs reduces drifting, and with pairs you can approach either hive from the side as well as from the back. I am also currently using wooden pallets, which can be picked up for free at many businesses, after they have been used for shipping. The pallets will hold 4 colonies like this :: but I just put two on them .. and leave the rest of the surface jutting out in front of the hives. This helps to keep the flight area clear of grass and other plants. The pro blems with pallets are 1) they're not very high off the ground, maybe 4-6", and 2) they tend to warp over time, leaving the hives tipping a bit. This can be corrected by wedging little pieces of wood under the hive corners as necessary. Still, too, pallets tend to weaken, and the thin boards on the surface can rot and break, so see that the hives well-supported, with the weight securely distributed over the heavier cross-members underneath. Though they are low, my bees in upstate NY appear to winter fine on pallets, when provided with upper entrances. (The lower ones are often blocked by snow.) Some folks use old tires/rims but this looks kind-of funny. I used to use cement blocks but with outyards this is way too much work/weight. Scrap boards nailed up or stacked are fine if nothing else is available. Height is a consideration (though a high stand is better for the bees). It becomes difficult to work towering, supered colonies when they are up past your chest. The pretty sloping hive stands sold by the suppliers are IMO too low and not really worth the money. The bees hardly ever use the ramp. I hope this is helpful -- JWG ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 3 Aug 1996 08:14:17 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Joel Govostes Subject: Wasp I.D.? This past spring I kept seeing a huge wasp foraging around the yard and picking at the asphalt shingles on my roof. AFAIK it wasn't a Vespa crabro, because I did get a close look at it once and it had a somewhat wider shape and wasn't of crabro coloration. What it looked like was a Vespula yellow jacket, usual bright yellow and black pattern on abdomen, etc. But it was huge! Perhaps 2X the size of a bald-faced "hornet" queen, fat and heavy, and certainly way bigger than any Vespula queen. What I did notice on the one close view was that the cd eyes were big and RED; and apparently the face was red as well. Does anyone know what it might be? Perhaps some spider hunter-wasp? It really was fascinating to see. I was hoping to locate some V. crabro for my collection, but according to Roger Morse they are extremely rare up here (so far). ............Tnx, Joel ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 3 Aug 1996 10:36:45 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Albert W. Needham" Subject: Re: Bees 0 bullants 1in Florida In a message dated 96-08-03 06:08:44 EDT, you write: << way to get rid of bull ants >> Out of curiousity...what are "bull ants"? They "attack" the colony? Al Needham Hobbyist Scituate,MA,USA alwine@aol.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 3 Aug 1996 01:29:32 +0000 Reply-To: ddbka@beelines.thegap.com Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Les Simms Organization: BeeLines Subject: Re: Expert help urgently needed Comments: cc: sgarrett@globalnet.co.uk Paul Walton wrote: > > In article <199608021339.OAA07269@gollum.globalnet.co.uk>, Simon Garrett > writes > >My friend lives in Wiltshire in the south of England and has a nest of bees > >in his garden. He also has a three year old son, a six months pregnant wife > >and two boisterous and inquisitive dogs. He fears one of all of them might > >come to grief. > > > >Neither of us knows any apiarists and the local council can only suggest > >extermination (of the bees that is). He would rather avoid that if > >possible. Can anyone offer/suggest help, please. The Editor of Honeybee Times, journal of Wiltshire BKA, would perhaps be able to help or put you in contact with someone close to you. His name is Robin Chapman, Hill Rising, Corsley, Warminster. Tel. 01373-832378 Best of Luck, Les Simms. -- D R O M O R E & D I S T R I C T B E E K E E P E R S Estd. 1984 ~ World Cup Winners 1991-92 ~ Blue Ribbon Winners 1994 Affiliated to the UBKA Incorporating "Dromore Buzzette" Chairman~Michael Young Secretary~Bob Shaw Treasurer~Les Simms E-Mail: Telephone: +44(0)1846-683512 S-Mail: 9 Governors Ridge Park, Hillsborough, Co.Down, BT26 6LD, UK ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 3 Aug 1996 15:06:21 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Charles Cannon Subject: Re: Bees 0 bullants 1in Florida << In a message dated 96-08-03 06:08:44 EDT, you write: << way to get rid of bull ants >> << Out of curiousity...what are "bull ants"? They "attack" the colony? >> Big over grown ants kinda like fireants but much much bigger!!!! Bullants are about the same size that bees are the solder ants attack weak colonies sometimes to steal there food or to take over the hive for there own colony to use mostly you can find them in old logs under trash piles dead tree limbs in such. Most of the time a strong bee colony can defend there hives from them. They act almost like bees when they are robing a weaker hive the soldier ants if they can find a way in they will kill every bee they find if the bees don't leave the hive they tear there wings off so they can't fly then procead to tear them up to carry back to there nest to eat leaving you with a dead hive full of nothing they take everything they can carry home. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 3 Aug 1996 21:03:32 +0000 Reply-To: ddbka@beelines.thegap.com Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Les Simms Organization: BeeLines Subject: Beekeeper with Withdrawal Symptoms Comments: cc: postmaster@mileaway.thegap.com Hello Beeliners, I am enjoying a holiday in Spain far away from my precious bees in Ireland, out of contact with fellow apiarists. If you are in the vicinity of the Lorette-de-Mar hotel before I leave next Thursday, please give me a call at the Don Quijote Hotel, Room 105. Telephone 72 365 860. Many thanks, Michael Young, Honey Judge, World Cup Winner 1991. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 3 Aug 1996 14:54:20 -0600 Reply-To: allend@internode.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Allen Dick Organization: The Beekeepers Subject: Drones & Acarine In my reading. I don't recall having come across much mention of drones and tracheal mites -- although maybe I just wasn't paying attention. A recent article in ABJ mentioned the preferred host being a worker four days old or less, I believe. What is the frequency of drones having tracheal mites? Anyone? Regards Allen W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper VE6CFK RR#1, Swalwell, Alberta Canada T0M 1Y0 Internet:dicka@cuug.ab.ca & allend@internode.net Honey. Bees, & Art ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 4 Aug 1996 02:16:11 +0000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Franklin D. Humphrey Sr" Subject: Re: Baggie Feeder At 10:03 AM 8/3/96 +0000, you wrote: >Has anybody tried Ziplock frezzer bags for a substitute baggie from out of a >catallog i would think they will work they come in the quart and 1 gallon >size? > >I was thinking about trying them useing a queen excluder to lay the bags on >and a shallow supper. > >Any coments on the matter would be gratefull!!!! >Or to tell me i'am crazy E-mail me at: >artec@msn.com or member8699@aol.com >Thank you for your time BEE END####### > Hay Charles I.ve been doing this for a year and talking about it on the BEE-L. Zip Lock type freezer bags work best because they are much heavier. I use the gallon size and put in a little over 2 quarts of syrup. Frank Humphrey beekeeper@worldnet.att.net ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 4 Aug 1996 00:21:53 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Doug Henry Subject: Re: Baggie Feeder In-Reply-To: <19960804021608.AAA19332@LOCALNAME> Is anybody on this list familiar with hive top feeders. They work best for me. Regards , Doug Henry. On Sun, 4 Aug 1996, Franklin D. Humphrey Sr wrote: > At 10:03 AM 8/3/96 +0000, you wrote: > >Has anybody tried Ziplock frezzer bags for a substitute baggie from out of a > >catallog i would think they will work they come in the quart and 1 gallon > >size? > > > >I was thinking about trying them useing a queen excluder to lay the bags on > >and a shallow supper. > > > >Any coments on the matter would be gratefull!!!! > >Or to tell me i'am crazy E-mail me at: > >artec@msn.com or member8699@aol.com > >Thank you for your time BEE END####### > > > > Hay Charles > > I.ve been doing this for a year and talking about it on the BEE-L. Zip Lock > type freezer bags work best because they are much heavier. I use the gallon > size and put in a little over 2 quarts of syrup. > > Frank Humphrey > beekeeper@worldnet.att.net > ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 4 Aug 1996 15:46:13 +0000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Franklin D. Humphrey Sr" Subject: Re: Baggie Feeder At 05:21 AM 8/4/96 +0000, you wrote: >Is anybody on this list familiar with hive top feeders. They work best >for me. >Regards , Doug Henry. > Hi Doug I considered hive top feeders and had planed to buy some to try. The thing that bothered me about them was that you still had to use a float to keep bees from drowning. In the past with division board feeders I have had problems with floats getting water logged and sinking. I really hated to open a hive and fine the surface of the feeder covered with drowned bees. With the baggie feeder the have to lick up the syrup trough slits cut in the bag. I have seen the bees enter the bag when it was virtually empty and lick the inside. This only occurs when the bag collapses in a manner which leaves a wrinkle. Also to use the baggie feeder, you don't have to buy another feeder. An empty super works just as well. Frank Humphrey beekeeper@worldnet.att.net ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 4 Aug 1996 10:34:13 -0600 Reply-To: allend@internode.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Allen Dick Organization: The Beekeepers Subject: Feeders and Syrups > >Is anybody on this list familiar with hive top feeders. They work > >best for me. > I considered hive top feeders and had planed to buy some to try. > The thing that bothered me about them was that you still had to use > a float to keep bees from drowning. In the past with division board > feeders I have had problems with floats getting water logged and > sinking. I really hated to open a hive and fine the surface of the > feeder covered with drowned bees. The trick with these above mentioned feeders is to use thick syrup -- about 67% sugar by weight. That way, the surface tension is sufficient that few bees drown ( especially if you use some straw in the hivetops or just a stick in the frame feeders). Thin syrup also tends to spoil very quickly, and to grow molds. Once mixed, it must be consumed quickly. Thick syrups, on the other hand spoil slowly -- especially if mixed with city water which has been sterlized or with hot water (over 130 degrees F). About Frame feeders: Some plastic frame feeders with very slick surfaces do drown bees no matter how thick the syrup is. Wood/masonite are emptied twice as fast as plastic in our tests. Moreover the latter never have dead bees in the bottom when empty -- the bees keep them perfectly clean, and we seldom find them stinky due to rain water, either. For some reason some plastic ones tend to catch water and go foul, if not carefully managed and spaced away from the outside of the box a little. About Floats: Straw makes a good 'float'. A type of straw that does not waterlog easily lasts longer, and in the thick syrup does not tend to get too soggy. Straw is cheap and easy to find, and can be dumped out when old. Wooden floats tend to get pretty grungy before too long if exposed to water or thin syrup. Choosing a Feeder: For feeding thin syrups, neither frame feeders or hivetop feeders are optimal. We seldom (never) feed thin syrup, so we use the frame and hivetops exclusively, and could not imagine going to the hassle of dealing with bags, although they work well and are ideal for small operations. One advantage to baggies is that a new bag (hopefully sterile) is used each time, so a pile of moldy feeder pails doesn't accumulate from feeding thin syrup. Funny how one or two small details will make or break a system. There are so many factors that influence which method is best in a given situation, and so often one or two critical details are forgotten in discussions. All feeding systems work well-- in some situations for some people-- but there are tricks to using each one. Regards Allen W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper VE6CFK RR#1, Swalwell, Alberta Canada T0M 1Y0 Internet:dicka@cuug.ab.ca & allend@internode.net Honey. Bees, & Art ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 4 Aug 1996 19:45:49 +0200 Reply-To: beeman@kuai.se Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: P-O Gustafsson Subject: Re: Feeders and Syrups Allen Dick wrote: > The trick with these above mentioned feeders is to use thick syrup > -- about 67% sugar by weight. That way, the surface tension is > sufficient that few bees drown ( especially if you use some straw in > the hivetops or just a stick in the frame feeders). > > Thin syrup also tends to spoil very quickly, and to grow molds. > Once mixed, it must be consumed quickly. If you change the ph of the syrup by adding some vinegar there will be very little mould. > Straw makes a good 'float'. No need for floats if the surface where the bees have entry to the syrup is small enough. If they have walls to climb on when feeding they will not get drowned. There are pictures of my feeders at http://www.kuai.se/~beeman/hive.htm Those are made from styrofoam, but I have made similar feeders from wood and plywood earlier, and they work well. > Funny how one or two small details will make or break a system. > There are so many factors that influence which method is best in a > given situation, and so often one or two critical details are > forgotten in discussions. How true that is. -- Regards P-O Gustafsson, Sweden beeman@kuai.se http://www.kuai.se/~beeman/ ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 4 Aug 1996 20:25:07 +0000 Reply-To: joe.hemmens@ndirect.co.uk Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Joe Hemmens Subject: Treating bees against Varroa with essential oils I am a member of Devon Apicultural Research Group. This year we are conducting trials of a Varroa treatment based on essential oils called Apilife Var. If anyone would like more information about the product or to hear of my own experiences with the treatment over the last two years, I would be pleased to reply. Of course if you have any information regarding the treatment of bees with essential oils I should be very pleased to hear from you. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 4 Aug 1996 20:27:21 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Tom Allen Subject: Re: Suggestions please... Tom Elliott, thanks for your quote from the Thesalonians, appropriate. Coul you get in touch with Mr.John Chapman of Eagle River and have him reach Tom Allen ,his cousin , at Tombeeski@aol.com. Would like to pick up some family news. Merci beaucoup! ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 4 Aug 1996 20:23:34 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Tom Allen Subject: Re: ground nesting bumblebees I am not directly invilved in the bumble bee cultivation but as yuou said in the Northeast bumble bees do not winter over. Only the queen. Is the originator of the bumble sequence sure that he is looking at bumble bees not found hornets. I can not remember a bumble bee that ever threatened let along stung. Ground hornets on the other hand are nasty mean. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 4 Aug 1996 20:27:11 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Tom Allen Subject: Re: ground nesting bumblebees Al Needham, I like your attitude about the sanctity of lilve in all its forms. Only this morning I was with an Algonquin lady who is very deout in her bekuefs stemming from her Native American background. We talked at length about her feeling of the right to life and after life for all God's creatures. Where does man get the idea that the world is for man and man alone? Im not sure about the Christian ethic towards animals insects etc, but the thought that man in created in God'simage and that all other life forms are not., really chills me. The beauty and creativity of the smallest life forms required just as much of God's efforts as human. Yes. we can see that man has evolved in a most rapid form but then the fundamentalllist willbelieve that man did not evolve but was created as is. All this is very confusing. But I do agree that we do not have the right to destroy other life forms ' ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 4 Aug 1996 20:26:39 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Tom Allen Subject: Re: Beekeeping in schools Yes I appreciate your efforts to develop a curriculum on bees to be given in the boys school. One of the problems I have encountered in North American Schools is that much of the exciting part of the bee colony development occurs during the summer holiday. The problem is how to care for the colony in that period.Many yuoungsters would be glad to take a colony home, but for every one that will there are two or more parents or step parents that will object. It would be well in planning your curriculum to get one or more families to commit to the summer maintenance in advance. Also the most dormant period is in the winter which makes the hive not quite as fascinating. Perhaps you could develop a researach phase on miote life in the winter time to determine what is really happening to our dying colonies. I recommend that you get in touch with the head of the enotomology department in a local university for suggestions ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 4 Aug 1996 20:01:58 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Victor M. Kroenke" Subject: Re: ground nesting bumblebees Tom Allen wrote: > > I am not directly invilved in the bumble bee cultivation but as yuou said in > the Northeast bumble bees do not winter over. Only the queen. Is the > originator of the bumble sequence sure that he is looking at bumble bees not > found hornets. I can not remember a bumble bee that ever threatened let along > stung. Ground hornets on the other hand are nasty mean. When I was a young man we put up prairie hay in Kansas using horses. I can vouch for the fact that bumble bees take a dim view to having their nests destroyed and can sting horses and people. It seemed to me that they really packed a wallop. Been Bumble Bee Stung Vic ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 4 Aug 1996 21:35:15 -0500 Reply-To: MTS@gnv.ifas.ufl.edu Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Malcolm T. Sanford" Subject: Re: Bees in my pool Comments: cc: dvlewis@netzone.com In-Reply-To: <32021F7C.70A1@netzone.com> Bees need water like humans. They easily become trained to watering sources and do not easily unlearn. We tell beekeepers to provide water to their bees to avoid these kinds of problems. I have no other solutions in mind and am sending your question on to bee-l for a possible response. On Fri, 2 Aug 1996, Kenneth V. Lewis wrote: > Dear Dr. Sanford, > I am emailing you in desperation! > I have moved into a new house on the edge of the desert in Phoenix AZ, > and my swimming pool has been taken over by bees. The hive is not on my > property, but somewhere in the desert. I don't want to hurt the bees, > just deter them from using my pool. > > I would appreciate any ideas you would have to humanely deal with this > problem. (Already, I and my son have been stung). > > Ken Lewis > kvlewis@netzone.com > ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 4 Aug 1996 20:39:26 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Count Alfred Korzybski Subject: end of plow problems Beevolk, It appears the Himalayan Blackberry flow has ended within days of the time I took 5 full supers off my strongest hive and discovered my weakest was a drone layer. Yesterday, in response to a loud buzzing I looked up to discover that weak hive surrounded by bees. On closer inspection, hundreds(thousands?) of corpses littered the landing platforms and surrounding area while individual struggles continued everywhere. The bald faced hornet(Darth Vader bee---Vespula Maculata) though outnumbered by thousands of other bees, was also involved in trying to destroy the hive of my Drone Layer(obviously they weren't ALL drones or ther'd be no fight eh?). I plugged the ventilation hole in the cap and placed a piece of wood across the base entrance hoping to give the residents some chance. My question is whether this hive has any chance of surviving or whether(assuming it still is alive) I should open 'er up and let my 2 healthy hives take the stores and simply do a split from my strongest? Last week I took a frame of very young brood and eggs from my big hive and introduced it to the brood chamber of this victim hive. Without finding and killing that drone layer is there any chance the'd raise a healthy Queen anyway? Stuart in Point Roberts, WA. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 4 Aug 1996 23:28:20 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Tom Allen Subject: Re: Drone Laying Colonies Thanks for your great letter on making drones and drone cells.I had agreat time reading it. I am trying color background on AOL3.0 tosee if it has any deleterious effects on transmission. Back to the drones. To begin with I am small only 3 colonies at this time down from 5 last year. Two of thew queens and colonies are new this year after a disastrous winter. The carry over from last year is doing the best and I am looking forward to having four supers of honey this season on that hive. Of the new ones only one will have and surplus. There are few drones in either of these hives and not many in the best hive. I counted less that forty drone cells in the either chamber. The queen is working both the upper and lower brood areas at this time. Am I correct in believing that the queen will only create drones when she is not performing well in laying and anticipates a supercedure or an swarm??? ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 4 Aug 1996 23:30:34 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Tom Allen Subject: Re: Baggie Feeder LAST WEEK FOLLOWING SUGGESTIONS IN BEE-L , I TRIED MY FIRST BAGGIE FEEDER. THEY TOOK TO IT IMMEDIATELY.I HAD CUT LITTLE HOLES IN THE TOP AND DESPITE THE PRESENCE OF AN AIR BUBBLE THEY PRETTY WELL DRAINED IT IN TWO DAYS OF RAINY WEATHER. WHAT I DID THAT WAS DIFFERENT OR NOT DISCUSSED ,WAS THAT I MADE A 1"DEEP FRAME MUCH LIKE THE FRAME OF AN INNER COVER. I THEN PLACED AN INNER COVER ABOVE IT. THEN THE OUTER COVER. UPON OPENING IT YESTERDAY THE BEES WERE NOT ONLY ALL OVER THE BAGGIE TOP SIDE BUT CLUSTERED ON THE INNER SIDE OF THE INNER COVER.jUST WHAT THEY WERE DOING I AM NOT SURE. i NOW HAVE TWPO HIVES WITH BAGGIE FEEDERS AND AM GOING TO TRY A VERTICAL ARRANGEMENT AND SEE HOW IT WILL WORK. PLACEING THE BAGGIE OVER THE INNER COVER MAY WORK WELL TOO.TRYING EVERYTHING BEFORE COLD WEATHER . KEEP THE CONVERSATION GOING. OH ABOUT INSULATION. YES I TOO HAVE USED THE GALLON SIZED FEEDER IN A DEEP SUPER DURING THE WINTER WITHOUT INSULATION AND WAS NOT SURE WHETHER THE INSULATION WAS OF ANY USE. IT DIDN'T DO ANY HARM. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 2 Aug 1996 14:06:34 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Carlos Noa Subject: Using bees as weapons -Reply Ignore the last message. I finally got it. I'll pass this along to my supervisor right away. This could produce the raise that I've been waitng for!!! Carlos ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 2 Aug 1996 20:57:43 -0600 Reply-To: allend@internode.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Allen Dick Organization: The Beekeepers Subject: Drones and Acarine Well, maybe I haven't been paying attention, but are drones affected by acarine? I can't recall any mention about mites in drones. Regards Allen W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper VE6CFK RR#1, Swalwell, Alberta Canada T0M 1Y0 Internet:dicka@cuug.ab.ca & allend@internode.net Honey. Bees, & Art ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 5 Aug 1996 11:05:41 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: James D Satterfield Subject: Pressing Honey So far I've gotten about about 9 gallons (US) of honey and the associated beeswax off my top bars hives this year. I had split heavily and really didn't expect to get much this year if any, but the sourwood flow has been unusually good around the Canton area. I will probably have some more at Ellijay, further north, where I have 7 tbh's...if the bears haven't gotten them. I'm pressing the honey out of the combs by putting the combs in a mesh bag, suspending the bag between two vertical plates, then applying much pressure with a scissor-type automobile jack. I tried squeezing some out by hand last year, and I had tried using the hinged, grooved paddles in years past, but I wasn't happy with those. The press I built works like a charm, and pressing the honey out has led to an interesting observation. I had a small amount of uncapped honey in the first batch I pressed, but the uncapped honey wasn't watery. I pressed it all then noted over the next several days that *very* fine bubbles were rising to the top of the honey jars. I was fearful that the honey was fermenting though the taste didn't indicate that it was taking place. After a few days the bubbles stopped, and there is now no foam on the top and the honey is clear. I have concluded that what I have been observing is air "dissolved" into the honey due to the high pressures exerted by the press, then gradually coming "out of solution" over several days. I wonder if those on BEE-L who have pressed honey would agree with my observation? I'm sure that some of you have pressed a great deal of honey, especially heather if I understand correctly. I would look forward to hearing from you directly, or post to all if you feel it's desirable. Cordially yours, Jim --------------------------------------------------------------- | James D. Satterfield | E-Mail: jsatt@gsu.edu | | -------------------------------- | 258 Ridge Pine Drive Canton is about 40 mi/64 km | | Canton, GA 30114, USA north of Atlanta, Georgia USA | | Telephone (770) 479-4784 | --------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 5 Aug 1996 10:27:15 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Gerry Visel Subject: Strange Conditions? Hidere all! What an unusual year! I lost all five of my hives last winter to mites (??) and restarted four with packages. Then came the cold wet spring, and all the packages superseded their queens. This was also my first year to get a (real) swarm call, located in a five foot high bush, which is now my fifth hive. I treated all for mites with Apistan and Crisco/sugar patties. First the "lesson:" Two of the four built up strong and I took off honey this weekend. One had three solid supers on it, but the other had two of honey and one of brood, over the queen excluder! The hive bodies were full of pollen, nectar, and drone cells. (The queen must have gotten trapped in the super when I went back in to get the excluder! I guess this one was my fault. I shoulda looked. I had been so happy to see the supers so full of hardworking bees...) That super is now a "cluster super" below the hive body. Now the "observation:" All five of my hives are "loaded" with swarm cells and drones. I have never seen so many so late in the season. Is anyone else seeing such screwy conditions in the hives? What is it trying to tell me? Comments? ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 5 Aug 1996 10:43:37 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Gerry Visel Subject: Pressing Honey -Reply Jim, First off, why press the honey out? Doesn't that destroy the combs? I found a small two frame extractor for $80 at a bee supply house near here. For a hobbyist, it's just the right size. The air bubbles you are seeing (or "foam" in its worse case,) come from dropping honey into a container. It needs to slide down a surface. You also get this when you pour it into jars, etc., if you don't pour down the side. It will persist for some time. Let it settle to the top and skim it off for your own table use. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 5 Aug 1996 12:11:21 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: - Ed Levi Subject: Beekeeper near Avignon, France Does anyone know the whereabouts or heard of Pierre Pere' a beekeepers (years ago) near Avignon, France? Ed ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 5 Aug 1996 12:07:45 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: - Ed Levi Subject: Re: Pressing Honey Years ago I extracted lot's of heather honey. I did not press any. With heather, even extracting is a trick as it is so thick, uncapping and spinning won't do it. I had access to a machine in France called a picatuse (sp) which inserted small needles in each cell and vibrated just prior to extracting. It was an extra step but sure was good honey. Sorry, no experience in pressing. Ed ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 5 Aug 1996 12:42:19 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Dave Green, Eastern Pollinator Newsletter" Subject: Re: Using Bees as weapons Dear bee friends, I am glad that there has been many a chuckle on our fun, with the "Bees as Weapons" tale. Unfortunately this was not always true for those who speak English as a second language. I apologize, if the language difference meant that some did not recognize it as a joke. I know a joke, which is a play on words, is extremely hard to translate. Please write, if you have further questions. We have a time-honored tradition of telling elaborate stories to lead up to a punch-line, at which point the audience realizes it has been fooled, and enjoys the prank. I hope it is not offensive to those of you who learned English later in life. The quote is a misquote of the Biblical one, "Many are called but few are chosen." Pollinator@aol.com Dave Green, PO Box 1200, Hemingway, SC 29554 Practical Pollination Home Page Dave & Janice Green http://users.aol.com/pollinator/polpage1.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 5 Aug 1996 10:38:00 PDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Dan Mihalyfi Subject: Re: Bees 0 bullants 1in Florida Comments: cc: artec@msn.com At 06:06 AM 8/3/96 -0400, you wrote: >Hello there new to the list so bear with me fist post in all. > >I would like to know if anybody else is from FL. with any helpfull info on a >safe >way to get rid of bull ants they are starting to become a pain in the ass. >I had a week colony hear at the house feeding them then last week i came home >from work they had found them and attacked lost the intire hive. > > E-mail : artec@msn.com > member8699@aol.com > Let the honey flow!!!!! > Thanks!!!!! > > Can you put your hives up on stands, with oil barrier to keep ants out altogether?? I use hive stands made out of 3/4 galvinized pipe. I paint used motor oil on the each of the four legs, ants will not cross this oil and there is no other access to hive i.e. cross members or long grass. After heavy rains the oil will need to be reapplied. Dan Mihalyfi Mihalyfi Apiaries Watsonville, CA 95076 mihalyfi@santacruz.k12.ca.us ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 6 Aug 1996 09:27:20 +1200 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Murray Reid Subject: DIMENSION OF HONEY BEE CELLS I have a request for the size (diameter) of cells as made by foundation manufacturers for both worker and drone foundation in the following sizes: * medium brood * thin super or thin surplus (comb honey) Can anyone help? I have the information in the 1992 ed of 'The Hive and the Honey Bee'. and ABC XYZ 32nd Edition. Replies to ReidM@Ruakura.MQM.Govt.NZ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 6 Aug 1996 00:40:33 GMT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Eric Abell Subject: Winter wraps It seems summer has not yet arrived and it is already time to prepare for winter. I have traditionally wintered in 4 packs with a winter lid with a hole in the front. This is then wrapped with a blanket of 6 mil poly over R12 fibreglass insulation. The blanket has holes that line up with the holes in the winter lids. Well.... more or less line up. I am now using insulated lids and want to incorporate these into my winter wrap. Besides, my success was not all that great before and it is time to try a change. I plan to use auger holes in the end of the upper brood chamber for an upper entrance so I am faced with two problems. 1. To close up the old hole in the blanket which will now be far too high for the auger hole. The best idea I have at this point is duct tape. 2. To create a new hole in the right place. I could roll out the blankets and cut holes with a template but am loath to do this for the extra work it involves. (Unless I did it in the field?) I need about 400 wraps. This leaves me with looking for a method to cut this new hole after the blanket is in place on the hive. I am soliciting ideas to deal with the two problems above. Any other observations will also be welcome. Eric Abell Gibbons, Alberta Canada (403) 998 3143 eabell@compusmart.ab.ca ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 5 Aug 1996 21:00:57 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Thomas G. Paschall, Jr." Subject: Re: Bees in my pool One possible solution, albeit troublesome, is to drain the pool for a couple of weeks until the bees "learn" an alternative watering site -------------------------------------------------------------------------- | Thomas G. Paschall, Jr. |Be anxious for nothing, but in everything| | |by prayer and supplication with | | Jackson, South Carolina |thanksgiving let your requests be known | | |to God. And the peace of God, which | | USA |surpasses all comprehension, shall guard | | |your hearts and your minds in Christ | | tgp@csranet.com |Jesus. - Philippians 4:6-7 | -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 5 Aug 1996 20:58:29 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Albert W. Needham" Subject: Re: Pressing Honey -Reply In a message dated 96-08-05 11:50:21 EDT, you write: << I found a small two frame extractor for $80 at a bee supply house near here. For a hobbyist, it's just the right size. >> Gerry: Could you supply the name/address and or phone # of this suplly house? Perhaps some others may also be interested! Thanks, Al Needham Hobbyist Scituate,MA.,USA alwine@aol.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 5 Aug 1996 20:59:07 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Albert W. Needham" Subject: Re: Using Bees as weapons Dave & Janice: I must admit I went for the hook, I, a born American, was taken in by your tale..good shot! Having retired from the Dept of Defense, nothing it could possibly fund would surprise me! (especially anything from the Vietnam Era). They really do fund some wacky stuff, you just have to know how to hit them right with a proposal written in top-notch bureaucratic terminology. (Maybe, you should really propose some such nonsense-might get a big grant!!) Great tale..enjoyed your sense of humor! Al Needham Hobbyist Scituate, MA.,USA alwine@aol.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 6 Aug 1996 00:28:00 GMT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Andy Nachbaur Organization: WILD BEE'S BBS (209) 826-8107 LOS BANOS, CA Subject: Re: Using Bees as weapons >From: "Dave Green, Eastern Pollinator Newsletter" >Date: Mon, 5 Aug 1996 12:42:19 -0400 >Subject: Re: Using Bees as weapons >Dear bee friends, > I am glad that there has been many a chuckle on our fun, with the "Bees >as Weapons" tale. Unfortunately this was not always true for those who >speak English as a second language. Ye, Gads, I passed it on the the local UP wire service and expected by now that you would have the TV crews surrounding your home as soon as they get off of the olympics. If I were you I would pull the shades, take the phone off the hook, and leave the lights out until I have a chance to get back on the wire with a correction... --- ~ QMPro 1.53 ~ Let the honey flow!!!!! ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 6 Aug 1996 00:17:38 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: David Alcantar Subject: Re: Strange Conditions? HI all I was reading the post and happened to think it maght be mother nature s way of responding to the mite problem. Produce a lot of swarms to increase the chances of survival. One more thing if you live in place where africanized bees are present be and you acquire someones elses hive. Be sure to check if they are africanized. If you are not sure consult someone who knows. They are mean. I bought two hives and when I tried to remove the honey supers they swarmed out and killed two pit bulls. I was left with a BIG vet bill and an angry nieghbor. It was scary. David Alcantar ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 6 Aug 1996 09:25:12 +0100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Paul Walton Subject: Do workers "steal" eggs from other colonies? Hello everyone, I am really stumped with this one and was wondering if someone out there might know the answer. At the end of June I bought a number of Apidea mini-nucs (small polysterene mating nuclei), fitted the frames with foundation and filled the candy box with candy. I also stocked them with a cupful of young nurse-bees in accordance with the manufacturers instructions. I was then unable to get back to the apiary for some weeks (due to illness) and assumed that the effort had been wasted. Well, I visited the apiary yesterday and most of the mini-nucs had been robbed of their stores much as I had expected. The thing that really suprised me, however, was that one of them had a sealed queen cell in it and was well stocked with bees and comb filled with honey. I have absolutely no idea how this can be since they have not had access to a queen for at least a month and there are no other eggs in the mini-nuc. Where did they get the egg to make a queen-cell? According to my queen rearing timetable; it takes 3 days for an egg to hatch, 6 days in the larval stage, and then the queen cell is capped for another 6 days during which time it grows from a pre-pupa to a pupa. Consequently, the bees in this mini-nuc must have had access to an egg within the last 9 - 15 days but I do not see how. The only way that I can think that they might have got an egg is that they "stole" it from another colony in much the same way that ants steal eggs from rival colonies. Does anyone have any experience, or opinion, of this? I have left the mini-nuc as I found it so I may yet get a queen emerge from it. -- Paul Walton Paul@adrem.demon.co.uk Toddington, Bedfordshire, England. Tel. +44 (0)1525 875570 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 6 Aug 1996 08:05:13 -0500 Reply-To: bbirkey@interaccess.com Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Barry Birkey Organization: Birkey Construction Subject: Oops, wrong dimension To all who have downloaded the hive plans from my web site - Upon observation of the plans last week, I was sorry to find one of the dimensions on the plans to be in error. The bottom board showed a dimension of 19-7/8" X 16-1/4". The correct dimension should be 22-0" X 16-1/4". The .pdf fill has been changed. Sorry for any inconvenience. -Barry -- Barry Birkey West Chicago, Illinios USA bbirkey@interaccess.com http://www.birkey.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 6 Aug 1996 10:26:24 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jim Moore DTN276-9448 ogo1/e17 508-496-9448 Subject: Re: Do workers "steal" eggs from other colonies? I read in a book, sorry I can't remember which one, that Carnolian's will steal and egg to make a queen and that it is typically an Italian queen that is produced. What kind of bees were in the Nuc? Jim Moore moore@aiag,enet.dec.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 6 Aug 1996 09:48:53 -0500 Reply-To: bbirkey@interaccess.com Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Barry Birkey Organization: Birkey Construction Subject: Oops, wrong dimension To all who have downloaded the hive plans from my web site - Upon observation of the plans last week, I was sorry to find one of the dimensions on the plans to be in error. The bottom board showed a dimension of 19-7/8" X 16-1/4". The correct dimension should be 22-0" X 16-1/4". The .pdf fill has been changed. Sorry for any inconvenience. -Barry (This came back undelivered. Please excuse if in fact it was already received.) -- Barry Birkey West Chicago, Illinios USA bbirkey@interaccess.com http://www.birkey.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 6 Aug 1996 16:12:48 +0100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Paul Walton Subject: Re: Do workers "steal" eggs from other colonies? In-Reply-To: <9608061426.AA08873@us4rmc.pko.dec.com> In article <9608061426.AA08873@us4rmc.pko.dec.com>, Jim Moore DTN276- 9448 ogo1/e17 508-496-9448 writes > I read in a book, sorry I can't remember which >one, that Carnolian's will steal and egg to make a >queen and that it is typically an Italian queen that is >produced. > > What kind of bees were in the Nuc? > > Jim Moore > moore@aiag,enet.dec.com hybrids. -- Paul Walton Paul@adrem.demon.co.uk Toddington, Bedfordshire, England. Tel. +44 (0)1525 875570 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 6 Aug 1996 16:21:16 +0100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Paul Walton Subject: Re: Do workers "steal" eggs from other colonies? In-Reply-To: <9608061426.AA08873@us4rmc.pko.dec.com> In article <9608061426.AA08873@us4rmc.pko.dec.com>, Jim Moore DTN276- 9448 ogo1/e17 508-496-9448 writes > I read in a book, sorry I can't remember which >one, that Carnolian's will steal and egg to make a >queen and that it is typically an Italian queen that is >produced. > > What kind of bees were in the Nuc? > > Jim Moore > moore@aiag,enet.dec.com I have attached a reply which should prevent a lot of the same questions being asked on the list. I hope that this adds some value to the discussion. In message <"mailhub.un.353:06.08.96.09.36.40"@uni-konstanz.de>, Kirchner writes >Let me first ask some questions: > >Which race of bees are you keeping? >What do the bees in the colony from which you took the workers for the nucs >look like? > Are they different in color or size from other colonies? >Do you have a queen excluder in this colony? Have you ever seen worker brood >above the queen excluder (long after >introduction of the excluder)? >Do you mark your queens? How old is the queen of that colony? >Where is it coming from? >Did you recognize a lot of supersedure during the past years? >Any change in the tendency of the colonies to swarm ar to abscond? Wolfgang, Thank you for your very prompt response. I shall try to answer your questions as accurately as I can. I am not a scientist, however, so my answers may appear a bit "wooly". 1. I have kept bees for about 4-5 years now and have acquired them from a variety of sources. Initially this was from suppliers such as Thornes and Steele & Brodie, but I have also collected some swarms from neighbours gardens. Consequently, I expect that my bees are a hybrid rather than any pure race. I have certainly never tried to maintain a pure breeding stock and do not feel that I have sufficient knowledge to determine one race from another. 2. Could you be a bit more specific about what you mean? I do not really understand what it is that you are asking me to describe. I have to admit that I didn't follow the procedure for obtaining nurse bees as closely as I might have done. I simply shook frames of unsealed brood into a box (having made sure that I didn't take the queen) and scooped them up with a cup and ladled them into a mini-nuc. I tried to make sure that there were no drones on the frames that I shook but I couldn't be certain. I guess that this is sloppy procedure, eh? 3. Because I intended to stock a number of mini-nucs at the same time, I went through about 5-6 colonies to get enough bees. Whenever I thought that I had enough bees in the box to stock a couple of mini-nucs, I ladled them in. Consequently, I cannot be sure which colony the bees in this particular mini-nuc came from. 4. Generally, the answer to your question is "yes", I do use queen excluders. However, I had been having difficulty in getting foundation drawn out in some of the supers so I left them off one or two hives. 5. The only time that I can remember seeing brood above the queen excluder is when I accidentally trapped the queen above the excluder during an inspection. On subsequent inspections I have always detected the eggs/brood and returned the queen to the lower chamber where she belonged. 6. I make it a policy to always mark the queen whenever I can find her. However, I would be lying if I said to you that all of my queens were marked. That simply isn't true. At least two of my colonies do not have marked queens because I have never been able to find them. I have contented myself with knowing that there was brood at all stages of development in the colony. 7. From what I have read, colonies that are headed by queens in their second or third year are more likely to swarm. Consequently, I have always tried to replace the queen during its second year. In fact, I didn't want to have to buy-in any more queens and that is why I was geering-up to produce my own with the mini-nucs. Some of the colonies have queens that are just coming to the end of their first year and some are a little older. If you asked me to guarrantee that no colony had a queen older than two years in it though, I could not do this (see 6 above). 8. I have not detected any evidence of supercedure/swarming (i.e. queen cells) at all this year. That may be because I tried to ensure that all of the colonies went into last winter with a young mated queen. I have also made sure that they have had plenty of space for expansion during the course of this year and have given them plenty of foundation to draw out. 9. I am not aware of any swarming or absconding this year. However, my apiary is in an orchard away from my home and it may have occurred without my knowledge. Two hives did get blown over earlier in the year but they didn't abscond. I set them back on their stand and they have, more-or-less, recovered during this summer. In previous years, I have not always been as diligent about looking after my colonies because of time contraints (i.e. assignments for my MBA) but this year, I have really tried to take care of them properly. It is the age of the queen cell that intrigues me. If my calculation is correct then they must have developed the queen cell over the last 9-15 days. Now, unless I have done something stupid, I do not see where they could have obtained a fertilised egg. I thought that workers were not capable of laying fertilised eggs and could only become drone-layers. Are you saying that workers from A.m capensis can produce fertilised eggs? If this is so, how are we to be able to find the queen amongst all of the other workers in a fully stocked hive in order to mark her? I look forward to your reply, - Paul - -- Paul Walton Paul@adrem.demon.co.uk Toddington, Bedfordshire, England. Tel. +44 (0)1525 875570 -- Paul Walton Paul@adrem.demon.co.uk Toddington, Bedfordshire, England. Tel. +44 (0)1525 875570 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 6 Aug 1996 18:14:43 GMT+2 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: MIKE ALLSOPP Organization: N.I.P.B VREDENBURG Subject: Re: Do workers "steal" eggs from other colonies? Hi Paul and greetings Wolfgang - how are you doing > It is the age of the queen cell that intrigues me. If my calculation is > correct then they must have developed the queen cell over the last 9-15 > days. Now, unless I have done something stupid, I do not see where they > could have obtained a fertilised egg. I thought that workers were not > capable of laying fertilised eggs and could only become drone-layers. > Are you saying that workers from A.m capensis can produce fertilised > eggs? If this is so, how are we to be able to find the queen amongst all > of the other workers in a fully stocked hive in order to mark her? With regards to the "stealing eggs" story let me first admit to a huge amount of scepticism. Some points about the story that might have relevance: (1) the fact that there is a sealed queen cell does not necessarily mean that there is a queen larva inside; it might be a drone larva or nothing - it is not uncommon (2) critical information that is missing is, are there other eggs laid in the nuc?; are they singly in cells or multiple?; are they in worker cells or drone cells or both? If there are other eggs present then either there are laying workers active, or there is a queen in the colony that the workers are unhappy with (3) is it not possible that a small after-swarm moved into the nuc; the queen might have "got lost" in the turmoil Last comment: if it is capensis, then it will be very noticeable, and where it came from will be of some importance; also, you will have a not inconsiderable problem regards Mike Allsopp Stellenbosch, South Africa Mike Allsopp tel (27)(21) 887-4690 Honeybee Research Section fax (27)(21) 883-3285 Plant Protection Research Institute pmail plant3/vredma Agricultural Research Council email vredma@plant3.agric.za P/Bag X5017 Stellenbosch 7599 South Africa ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 6 Aug 1996 11:01:27 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Kerry Clark of AGF 784-2225 fax (604) 784 2299" Subject: Drones host tracheal mites Allen Drone tracheal trunks are accepted by tracheal mites as homes. The tubes are more spacious and a lot of mites can be accomodated. Drone thorax sections are easy to view (by a bee examiner). It would seem that the longer life of drones might make them fertile ground for raising tracheal mites, however I've not seen any report of that. Also, I don't know if the usual "younger the more attractive" rule applies to drones (it does to queens). There has been contradictory evidence of colony mite prevalence for drones vs workers (some report higher, some lower). I'd expect that the prevalence in drones collected from a colony, is more a reflection of the average mite prevalence in the colonies of a whole apiary (which drift to various colonies), rather than the prevalence in the particular colony. regards Kerry Clark, Apiculture Specialist B.C. Ministry of Agriculture 1201 103 Ave Dawson Creek B.C. V1G 4J2 CANADA Tel (604) 784-2225 fax (604) 784-2299 INTERNET KCLARK@GALAXY.GOV.BC.CA ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 6 Aug 1996 19:17:16 +0000 Reply-To: joe.hemmens@ndirect.co.uk Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Joe Hemmens Subject: Do bees steal eggs? I hope you will excuse me for putting in my twopennyworth in to the discussion on whether or not bees steal eggs. I don't know the answer but would like to quote from ROB Manley's 'Honey Farming'. Manley was one of the first UK beekeepers who actually derived his living from beekeeping, was very dismissive of the contemporary UK beekeeping methods (1920-1940ish) and something of a fan of American hives and techniques. Also I think he wrote extremely well and was/is a great authority about bees. Beginning of quote 'I should like, here, to mention one very interesting circumstance that all beekeepers are almost certain to meet sooner or later. It will happen sometimes, even in the best regulated of apiaries, that queens or virgin queens will be lost, leaving their colonies, generally speaking, hopelessly queenless. Now although such stocks, unless assisted by the beekeeper who may give unsealed brood, a queen cell or even a fertile queen, are in a completely hopeless situation in nine cases out of ten, yet every now and then there will be found in one of these queenless colonies a perfectly normal queen cell from which a perfectly normal virgin will emerge and mate quite successfully. The same thing does occasionally happen in colonies that have laying workers in them. Now where does the egg that produces the queen in such cases come from? Many theories have been put forward from time to time, including the (to my thinking) quite preposterous one that worker bees that are without the means of raising a queen will go out on a robbing expedition, and entering the hive of some queen right colony, carry off an egg from it to their own home and there rear a queen for themselves. That bees will move eggs from one part of their hive to another is quite credible, but that they should enter the hive of another colony for the purpose of stealing an egg seems to me to be extremely unlikely, and to assume an altogether impossible degree of intelligence, courage and restraint on the part of an insect. There are other ways of accounting for this phenomenon.. It seems to me that such queens may sometimes be raised from eggs that have been lying neglected in some chilly corner of the combs, until found and tended by the workers. I do not know for certain, but I think it likely that bees' eggs may remain inert when neglected in this way, but may well retain their viability. There is another way of accounting for the presence of good queen cells where we should not expect them to be possible. The laying worker is a very common occupant of queenless stocks, as I have mentioned earlier in this essay, and it has recently been shown that on rare occasions - perhaps not so rare either - these bees can and do lay eggs that develop into females, and will produce queens if fed for that purpose. It has also been proved that queens that have been confined to their hives so that they have been unable to mate, have laid eggs from which queens and workers have been raised. I do not know how just this can be accounted for, but I see no reason why an occasional diploid ovum should not miss its reduction division and so, without conjugation with a male cell, be furnished with the full set of 32 chromosomes and consequently develop into a female bee. Although these female cells are sometimes found, let no inexperienced beekeeper, should he find cells that look like queen cells in some colony that is believed to be hopelessly queenless, conclude that all must be well. These cases are comparatively rare, and in the great majority of cases such cells will be built over male larvae, and their contents will be quite useless. Such cells are very common indeed, but they can generally be distinguished from genuine queen cells by their appearance. They are smoother, and have thinner walls; in fact to the experienced eye are usually unmistakable. I have known drones in these cells to reach the stage of becoming coloured; but have never known a drone to emerge from one.' End of quote. Of course Manley would not of known about A. m. Capensis, found in the extreme of South Africa only (and certainly not in the UK!) that have a very high rate of parthogenic female eggs produced by laying workers after queen loss. See 'The Biology of the Honey Bee' by Mark L Winston. This is perhaps interesting in that it might indicate that other races are capable of the same trick as well (as Manley suggested). Best wishes Joe Hemmens ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 6 Aug 1996 12:11:40 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Roy Nettlebeck Subject: Paradigm change in Beekeeping. Hello All, I have been reading this list and everything else I can get my hands on about the mites.Since I lost 50 hives last winter myself , I do not want to repeat the loss this winter. Beekeepers are looking for a silver bullet to solve all of there mite problems. It will not happen any time soon.Beekeeping has changed and we have to change with it or we are out of business. We know all of the above , but we have people missusing apistan , which can hurt all of us in the long run.When Max told us to follow the lable instructions and did give us some info about the tests that the company did , we have to follow the directions. I would rather have no added chemicals in my hives, but I have no other good choice. Even with the use of chemicals we will still loose hives. I have come to the conclusion that we need good queens in the fall and plenty of healthy young bees to winter over.The books have told us that for years.We need to pay more attention to each hive in the fall.We need to help other beekeepers in our areas , so we can cut down on mite levels around us.We have lost most of the wild bees already , so we need to keep our bees as clean of mites as possible.This part is not easy. It takes time and money to do it the right way.Cut no corners and don't jump for any product that has not been approved.For those that think that Formic acid will be approved soon for the in the US. Don't count on it, I had to work with the EPA for 2 years on PCB's because they came up with a 5,000 page book on the control of PCB's.The EPA will not just open the door to beekeepers with an acid that you need gloves and a resperators to handle.This is a strong solution 75 or 85% is nothing to take lightly.My own thoughts are to stay away from strong formic acid. It will have negative affects on hive pheromones. But we do have some beekeepers putting other compounds on there bees and killing them.We had a post of someone using the Mite Solution on his bees by the instructions he was given and lost all 25 hives. We have researchers working on the mite problem.We need to help support them and get the congress to understand what is ahead of us if we loose many more of our pollenators. We need joint work with all researchers around the world. We are all in it together and I think we all love the Honeybee.We can't keep loosing 25% of the worlds honeybee population without having a world food problem.Facts are facts and we need to get the truth out to everyone.We have outstanding researchers all around the world and they need to be listened to , when they tell us what to do.Why have them if we don't follow what there research has come up with for us to use. Beekeepers need to be educated about what they need to do to keep bees with the mites.The monthly publications have had all types of good information in them over the last few months.The problem is , only a small percentage of hobby and small beekeepers get these publications.Beekeeping has changed and all beekeepers need to get the new rules of the game.We all need to help beekeeping as it changes and extend a hand to others so all can still enjoy beekeeping. Very Best Regards Roy ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 6 Aug 1996 10:48:00 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Gerry Visel Subject: Re: Using Bees as weapons -Reply Q: How many bees will fit on the head of a beekeeper? A: Depends on whether he's a pinhead. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 6 Aug 1996 10:56:27 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Gerry Visel Subject: Re: Pressing Honey -Reply -Reply Quote: In a message dated 96-08-05 11:50:21 EDT, you write: << I found a small two frame extractor for $80 at a bee supply house near here. For a hobbyist, it's just the right size. >> Gerry: Could you supply the name/address and or phone # of this suplly house? Perhaps some others may also be interested! End quote> The place I found mine (four years ago) was at Lapps Bee Supply Center, Reeseville, Wisconsin, (800) 321-1960 or (414) 927-3848. Reeseville is northwest of Madison about 30? miles or so. They handle consignment second hand equipment, and also have a nice little catalog with very good prices. They ship UPS, etc. Call 'em for a catalog and to see what other goodies they might have. Gerry ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 6 Aug 1996 11:14:21 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Gerry Visel Subject: Raising Queens Hi all, Can anyone recommend a good source for a procedure on how to raise queens "the right way." (I am seeing bunches of supersedure cells in my hives right now, and might as well do it right... Thanx muchly! ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 6 Aug 1996 15:50:07 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Laura Downey Subject: Multiple treatments of Apistan How many treatments of Apistan can be made successively (using NEW strips EACH time)? Here in Maryland, our State Inspector, has told us to put strips in right after the honey flow, in July, which I did. I am getting ready to remove these strips and wonder when I can put in the next set of strips. Do I put them in right away, replacing those in 45 days, and continue new applications until cold weather sets in? Last year, I placed two NEW sets of strips from Summer into Fall, timing the usage of the strips to be completed with the onset of cold weather. I did not put them in immediately after last year's honey flow. (Both of my colonies survived through the Winter.) There will be another honey flow here in the early Fall. However, this honey is not to be used for human consumption. This will become the winter stores for the bees, so there is no concern about having supers in place any more this year. Laura Downey Anne Arundel Co., Maryland corvi29@smart.net ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 6 Aug 1996 16:54:12 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ian Watson Subject: Re: Raising Queens In-Reply-To: Hello all..:) I also have a question about raising a queen..I have a buchfast colony..and I made up a five frame nuc. I checked carefully to make sure the queen didnt come with it....Now i have just checked it after about 8-9 days..and there are at least 6 queen cups...i see the curled up larva covered with royal jelly....Success!!!! I also chose frames with lots of sealed brood and also lots of sealed Drone brood..so to raise the potential for the queen mating with a pure buckfast drone... Now..since this is my first time..i am kind of feeling my way in the dark..i have read The Hive and The Honey Bee...and the Encyclopedia of Beekeeping..but i need some practical help with finding out if i will end up with a mated queen in the end..Any help would be greatly appreciated Thanks! Ian Watson iwatson@freenet.npiec.on.ca ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 6 Aug 1996 17:51:19 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Gerry Visel Subject: For sale People asked where to buy an extractor... quote (from sce.agriculture.beekeeping) Subject: FS: EXTRACTOR Date: 6 Aug 1996 02:46:28 GMT From: shirljo@texhoma.net Organization: IONet Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping I have a 4 frame Dadant hand crank extractor in like new condition for sale. $175.00 + shipping. email: shirljo@texhoma.net ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 6 Aug 1996 21:08:59 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Morty Lipton Subject: Mite Resistance of Colonies in Buildings???? I have been wondering if any other beekeepers have observed = the seeming mite resistance of colonies situated in attic, = house walls etc. The writer lives in a cooperative community = where there have been as many as five beekeepers in past = years. While all have experienced typical colony losses we = have observed that two colonies, one in the wall of an = ancient stone structure and another in the roof of one of = our homes have defied extinction. Both colonies have been in = their present abodes as far back as I can remember. = Most beekeepers have been impressed with the difficulty of = either destroying or capturing colonies resident in = structures. I had always assumed that the difficulty had to = do with accessing the brood comb area or the likelihood of = multiple colonies. Could there be some other factors? Some things are fairly certain. These are very vigorous and = healthy colonies. They are undisturbed. Their honey is not = robbed. They do not have to wear out their wings constantly = replenishing there supply of nectar. They are always well = protected from the elements, especially moisture which we = all know is a lot more difficult for them than the cold. The = colonies I have been observing are situated in either the = north side (the stone house colony) or in a highly shaded = area ( the colony in the roof of one of our homes). I think = it would be safe to assume that they need to expend far less = energy heating and cooling their hive than if they were = situated in an open area fully exposed to the sun, rain and = wind plus having to cope with all the stresses that we = beekeepers visit upon them. Could it be that we impair their = ability to resists the onslaught of the predatory mites? I lost all my colonies some years ago and gave up the = hobby. I had decided that I didn=B9t want to use pesticides = but we do a fair amount of community (organic only) = gardening and so this spring I decided to try raising a few = colonies. I Purchased two Buckfasts, one mysteriously = disappeared after a week, but I suspect that they rejected = the queen (which I found surrounded by a few workers near = the hive entrance). Judging by the considerable population = increase in the surviving colony, I suspect that the = workers joined the surviving colony. = The colony is in my old beehouse which I revised to conform = with a method I found described in an old English beekeeping = text and also referenced in a book by Mace. In order to make = inspection for Varroa easier I have a slide at the bottom of = the brood chamber for a white plastic tablet. The bottom of = the brood chamber is simply = fiberglass mesh. On hot days I can remove it to increase = ventilation and for the top I have alternately some clear = plastic, and a board with an a hole properly situated for = either feeding or with a mesh insert for ventilation. I have = been somewhat amazed at the vitality of the colony and the = level of activity at the exit during a dismal summer here in = the northeast (Bucks County, PA). Initially I did use = Apistan as prescribed and inspections have not suggested any = Varroa problem, but at 76 my eyesight isn=B9t what it used to = be and I could be wrong. In any event I have decided not to = rob them and to inspect them by indirect methods etc & I may = resist using Apistan again. We need the bees in our garden = more than I need their honey. Has anybody made similiar observations about colonies = situated in buildings? -- End --