Received: from [169.226.1.21] by relay.internode.net (SMTPD32-3.02) id ADEF183B00E8; Tue, 12 Nov 1996 23:42:55 -0700 Received: from CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU by CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU (IBM VM SMTP V2R2) with BSMTP id 9084; Wed, 13 Nov 96 01:46:42 EST Received: from CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU (NJE origin LISTSERV@ALBNYVM1) by CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU (LMail V1.2c/1.8c) with BSMTP id 9668; Wed, 13 Nov 1996 01:46:40 -0500 Date: Wed, 13 Nov 1996 01:46:36 -0500 From: "L-Soft list server at ALBNYVM1 (1.8b)" Subject: File: "BEE-L LOG9608E" To: "W. Allen Dick" X-UIDL: 473 Status: U ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 Aug 1996 06:12:17 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Tim Cote Subject: Looking for hives, help please >Hi there! After five years of hobby beekeeping, my young wife and I've decided to advance to "sideliner" status with a trial of 50 additional colonies to add to our current 8. She'll be doing most of the work, but what a dynamo! Anyways, were to get 'em? From time to time I've seen bees advertised in Bee Culture (which I get), but there havn't been any applicable ads in the last couple months. American Bee Journal (which I've seen occasionally but not a recent copy, subscribing soon) has a beefier classified section. Could a current subscriber look for me in this and last month's ABJ and tell me if there are local hives for sale? (Almost needless to say buying new equiptment and nucs/packages is financially prohibitive. We have an Ethelene dioxide chamber here for any extra supers I might buy and I'll just hope we can recognize AFB on initial inspection.) We live in Maryland and I'm willing to travel up to 500mi on a weekend adventure to get hives. We'd like to get them soon to assure proper mite treatment. Feeling kind of woozy about this step, but excited too. Timothy Cote MD MPH 512 Boston Ave Takoma Park, MD 20912 301-587-2425 fax 301-587-6192 beesbuzz@erols.gov ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 27 Aug 1996 19:08:50 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Cecile T. Kohrs" Subject: Wax Hi. I am a honey lover, and I have been having great debates with friends about how bees make wax, and when beeswax candles were first made. And honey...isn't it bee spit? I hope it isn't too trivial to ask, I am also interested in more recipes using honey, and what I'd have to do to modify recipes to use honey instead of sugar. Thanks in advance for your help. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 Aug 1996 14:08:30 GMT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Eric Abell Subject: Re: Propolis Your proposal sound like a good idea and I may try it next year. This year, however, this was simply an opportunity to meet a request. At 10:06 PM 8/27/96 -0500, you wrote: >At 09:48 8/27/96 -0600, you wrote: >>---------------------- Information from the mail header ----------------------- >>Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology >>Poster: Allen Dick >>Organization: The Beekeepers >>Subject: Re: Propolis >>-------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- >> >>> I have been contacted by a gentleman who would like to buy some >>> propolis. I have been scraping a lot of boxes and the mixture I get >>> is mostly wax and propolis. My question is: Is there any practical >>> way of separating the propolis from these scrapings? >> >>Place the mix into cold water. Wax floats, propolis and dirt sink. >> >>The propolis must be dried. >> >>I did this years ago and sent samples to the buyer, was quoted a >>price, sent the same material, and received 2/3 what they promised. >> >>FWiW >> >>Regards >> >>Allen >> >>W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper VE6CFK >>RR#1, Swalwell, Alberta Canada T0M 1Y0 >>Internet:dicka@cuug.ab.ca & allend@internode.net >>Honey. Bees, & Art > > >What Allen says is true, except... If the wax and propolis is clumped >together, which most of it probably will be, it will be very difficult to >separate. > >My suggestion to you is, if you're going to be selling propolis to this man >on a regular basis, spend the small amount to purchase some of the propolis >trap netting. I say this specific type, because my experience has shown >that the black, rigid type trap is not worth the extra money you have to pay >for it. I don't know who it's maker is, and I'm not trying to slam them, >but I have been very displeased with the results from that type. It's hard >to get into the freezer, the propolis doesn't want to come out of it, and >the bees don't like it as much. > >The netting type works much better, all the way around. However, I did find >that in order to maximize the yield, the netting needed to be in some sort >of frame, which I am building right now. > >If you do it this way, you'll get a much better quality propolis than by >scraping your boxes and it's an easy thing to do. Just throw it on, under >the top, and the bees do the rest. > > >Cheers, > > > > >Mike Wallace >Sar Shalom Apiary >McKinney, Texas USA >"Out of the heart, the mouth speaks." > > Eric Abell Gibbons, Alberta Canada (403) 998 3143 eabell@compusmart.ab.ca ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 27 Aug 1996 08:01:00 +0200 Reply-To: VOCA Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: VOCA Subject: European Hive Manufacturers Bee Liners Does anyone know who are the major European hive manufacturers? I am looking to help a Bulgarian beekeeper place an order for 10,000 hive bodies and frames and we are particularly interested in potential suppliers in Italy, France, or Spain. We are interested in any European manufacturer, however, and a phone or better yet, fax number would be greatly appreciated. Also, Nick Dadant of Dadant and Sons told me by fax yesterday that manufacture of crimp wire and plastic based foundation (like Duragilt) are no longer protected by patent (at least I am almost certain of it, the fax was blurred). I want to help this Bulgarian beekeeper at least learn how to make improved foundation, and at most help him purchase and set up the machinery. Again, an anyone supply me with names of manufacturers of equipment or any other information on manufacture of foundation. Since I have made a number of post from Bulgaria, let me at least tell you a bit about bebkeeping as I have seen it. The bees are dark and very gentle. The beekeepers are very skilled, and I have seen some excellent honey country and really first class honey. Most keep bees in Dadant-Blatt hives, and some are converting to Langstroth hives. I have seen some straw skeps in use, 50 in one location doing very well. Bulgaria is a beautiful country with friendly people and wonderful food and wine. Please address any replies to: voca@sf.cit.bg Thanks, Bill Lord ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 Aug 1996 11:47:29 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Dave Green, Eastern Pollinator Newsletter" Subject: Re: Looking for hives, help please In a message dated 96-08-28 06:16:38 EDT, beesbuzz@erols.com (Tim Cote) writes: << After five years of hobby beekeeping, my young wife and I've decided to advance to "sideliner" status with a trial of 50 additional colonies to add to our current 8. She'll be doing most of the work, but what a dynamo! Anyways, were to get 'em? From time to time I've seen bees advertised in Bee Culture (which I get), but there havn't been any applicable ads in the last couple months. American Bee Journal (which I've seen occasionally but not a recent copy, subscribing soon) has a beefier classified section. Could a current subscriber look for me in this and last month's ABJ and tell me if there are local hives for sale?>> Got the bug, eh? There is some discusssion among beekeepers whether it is a treatable condition, with proper therapy, or whether it is an untreatable genetic defect. Well good luck to you. I expect to keep at it, until I can no longer lift a super. This past week we have been looking at some powerful hives, with heavy supers, and fat, clean, bright looking bees, and I get high on it. (I also get down, when I look at a batch of greasy, sour-smelling, sickly bees that have mites, chalkbrood, or have taken a pesticide hit.) In the past, when folks talk about buying in the fall, I've encouraged them to plan on buying in the spring, and let the seller take the winter losses. However, this may not be as true nowadays. Last spring, there was a "giant sucking sound" in the south, as northern fruit pollination, and loss replacement for northern bee winter deadouts took every available package, nuc, etc. You may gain by avoiding this direct competition in the spring. (I was just informed of a young beekeeper, who sold some of his crop this past week, in the barrel, for $1.15 per lb. -- He's bankrolled now to buy more bees next spring.) But you still need to ask yourself. Am I knowledgeable enough to get them through the winter? Am I knowledgeable enough to judge the quality of the bees I buy? You don't want to end up with fifty boxes next spring, looking for packages to refill them. <<(Almost needless to say buying new equiptment and nucs/packages is financially prohibitive. We have an Ethelene dioxide chamber here for any extra supers I might buy and I'll just hope we can recognize AFB on initial inspection.)>> You are better off not buying it. If a seller has a lot of AFB, it's likely that it is in the live bees as well, and you can't run them through the chamber -- well not without killing them anyway! When I was first beginning, I bought a hundred hives of bees, and several hundred deep supers from a retiring beekeeper. I looked at the bees, but didn't know enough to look at the supers, many of which were his deadouts, that he had extracted. When I got smarter later, I looked through the supers, and found scale. Many of the hundred broke down, because he had covered up the AFB with heavy terramycin treatments. And the extra deeps, most of which I placed on bees I already had, caused a lot of them to break down. It took a lot of burning to clean that up. That's the tuition in the University of the Seat of the Pants. Very expensive. Any beekeeper can have an occasional AFB hive, and I wouldn't let that stop me from buying, if he did. But it would make me cautious. If you don't recognize scale, take someone with you who does. And, if there is scale in the supers, look for the possibility of a "cover" up with the live ones. <> If you look north, the best you could do is to buy good solid (but not plugged) two story hives. You want the top box to be full of honey, the bottom to still have some brood. There should be enough bees to make a cluster big enough to mostly fill one box on a frosty morning. They will be losing bees all winter, and they have to have bees left to insulate the brood in a late winter cold spell. Make sure they have Apistan and terramycin, and your work is mostly done until late winter. But you are going to have to pay for this. The box of honey represents at least $50 extracted, probably more. The tendency for northern commercial beekeepers right now is to drop them down to single story, so as to get that honey. Then they will be taken south, where they can pick up some feed, and get supplemental syrup all winter. After last winter's losses, a lot more bees will be going south. Watch that you don't buy real cheap bees that have been stripped of ALL honey. You are still too far north to get them through winter that way. They will be dwindling fast, even during the time from the "stripping," until you can get them home and start feeding. During a cold spell, they would not be able to take syrup. Because they have no reserve in the combs, they could starve, even while you are feeding. If you look south, you'll probably only find singles, which would not be as good for you as doubles, but I think you could winter them fine, if they start out fairly heavy, and you put on candy boards or something similar, right away. I can give you more info on this, if you want. They may even winter better this way, it's just more work and expense. Finally: The jump from hobbyist to sideliner is a quantum leap. I've seen guys get all excited because they've had a 150 lb. average at a hobbyist scale, so they went out and bought a couple hundred, only to see the average cut in half, or worse. With all these careats, if you are still eager. Good luck! You could win big or lose big. Make sure your skill is up to the challenge, and go for it! A call to your state bee inspection office could turn up possible sellers. Also check with local or state bee associations. Check Extension. Some extension agents are involved on the beekeeping end, others would not recognize a hive if they saw it up close. South Carolina has a market bulletin, a free classified ad newspaper put out by the Dept. of Agriculture, which has bees for sale from time to time. I believe NC does too. Does Maryland? Pollinator@aol.com Dave Green, PO Box 1200, Hemingway, SC 29554 Practical Pollination Home Page Dave & Janice Green http://users.aol.com/pollinator/polpage1.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 Aug 1996 18:53:04 +0000 Reply-To: joe.hemmens@ndirect.co.uk Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Joe Hemmens Subject: Re: Wax Cecile T. Kohrs recently wrote: > Hi. > > I am a honey lover, and I have been having great debates with > friends about how bees make wax, and when beeswax candles were first > made. > > And honey...isn't it bee spit? > > I hope it isn't too trivial to ask, I am also interested in more > recipes using honey, and what I'd have to do to modify recipes to > use honey instead of sugar. > > Thanks in advance for your help. Firstly the second question, of course honey is nasty stuff and might be better described not as 'spit' but as 'vomit' because bees regurgitate it from their stomachs. Have nothing to do with it is my advice. Bees suck nectar and it passes through a long esophagus to the crop. At the back end of the crop is a gadget called the Proventricular Valve. This regulates the passage of nectar and pollen into the digestive chamber further on down the line called the Midgut and prevents the contents of the Midgut from passing back into the crop. The collected nectar from a foraging bee is collected in the crop and what is left over after the bee has consumed enough to meet it's energy needs is vomited into cells of honeycomb. Quite disgusting really. One of the by products of honey consumption is wax, produced by modified epidermal cells located ventrally on the fourth to seventh abdominal segments. These glands are concealed beneath overlapping plates called wax mirrors on each segment. The liquid wax collects on the wax mirrors and hardens into scales which are removed by brushing spines on the hind legs past the mirrors. The leg holding the scale moves forward to the mandibles, which then manipulate the wax with the help of the forelegs for comb construction. Although I have never used honey very much for cookery (because it is such disgusting stuff) bear in mind that it is approximately 20% water and therefore reduce the water content of the recipe by 20% and add extra honey to compensate for the reduced sugar content. Don't know when wax candles were first made, but probably several thousands of years ago. Wick technology is important in the history of candle making, but that's another story... Best wishes Joe Hemmens Joe Hemmens joe.hemmens@ndirect.co.uk Park House, Golberdon, Cornwall UK 01579382652 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 Aug 1996 15:24:00 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Hults, Patricia" Subject: creamed honey I have been trying with no luck to locate a recipe/instructions on making creamed honey. Thanks - Pat ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 29 Aug 1996 07:21:07 +1100 Reply-To: nickw@wave.co.nz Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Nick Wallingford Organization: Nat Beekeepers Assn of NZ Subject: Re: creamed honey > I have been trying with no luck to locate a recipe/instructions on making > creamed honey. Thanks - Pat Per-Olof Gustafsson's pages refer to the way they cream honey in Sweden. http://www.kuai.se/~beeman/krist_e.htm P-O Gustafsson's Pages (Sweden) Most honey in NZ is sold as creamed honey, as has been for many many years. Perhaps one of the NZ commercial bkprs would like to give some tips? (\ Nick Wallingford {|||8- home nickw@wave.co.nz (/ work nw1@boppoly.ac.nz NZ Beekeeping http://www.wave.co.nz/pages/nickw/nzbkpg.htm ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 Aug 1996 16:14:39 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Mark D. Egloff" Subject: Drone Foundation Source of Supply? Comments: To: ohbee-l@sun1.oardc.ohio-state.edu Gentlepeople: I have been looking for a source for Drone sized foundation. Does anyone know who handles it, it price, and such? Mark Egloff Dayton, Ohio. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 Aug 1996 15:31:28 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ted Fischer Subject: Excluders, honey and wax mo REGARDING Excluders, honey and wax moths Tim Sterrett recently posted a reply to an earlier inquiry about queen excluders. I've written about this before, but since it deals with one of my favorite myths in beekeeping, here goes again: The myth is that a queen excluder is a honey excluder. I have tested this often over the years, having been an active beekeeper since 1978, with usually about 75 colonies. In the earlier years I ran colonies both with and without excluders. Both groups had colonies that produced well and poorly. For the last dozen years, at least, I therefore regularly used excluders on all my colonies. I have often had seven supers crammed full of honey. At 40lbs/super, that's 280 lbs of honey on top of the excluder! Usually there are at least four and up to six completely full supers on each. How I could get more honey having removed the excluder is cause for wonder. Now, having put that myth to rest, I'd like to give the reason that I do use excluders - to save the honeycomb from wax moth damage. Moths will not attack clean, dry honeycomb in storage. They feed on organic matter that may be present in the combs, and do not utilize beeswax per se. If the queen goes up into the super to lay eggs, there will be brood remnants (such as cocoons) remaining, even if she later goes down again. There will be pollen pellets stored in the bases of some of the cells. And there may even be a few (or a lot) of brood left in case the honey flow was not as good as anticipated. All this attracts wax moths, which will destroy the comb later when it is stored. I don't like to store honey supers with paradiclorobenzene. It gets into the wax and I'm never sure that it ever completely leaves. I don't want this in my honey. I also don't want to deal with organisms as disgusting as wax moths and their leavings. The very simplest way to protect your combs is to keep them for honey only, using the excluder. Ted Fischer ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 27 Aug 1996 12:35:02 +0200 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Richard C. van Ouwerkerk" Organization: Planet Internet Subject: Formic acid There is certainly a lot of talk about formic acid against varroa mites. In Holland, as probably in many other countries the use of formic acid is officially not yet allowed, but still we want to give it a try. On a fair we found little containers that could be mounted inside a low frame and hung between other frames in the brood area. They will hold some 150 ml of fluid and are manufactured in Berlin. The principle is that of a bottle filled with water and put upside down in in a saucer to water the birds in your garden. In the cup you stick some kind of paper wick, so the fluid will evaporate slowly over a couple of weeks. Interesting, but where do you buy formic acid? Thirty years ago it could easily be bought in any drugstore for just about peanuts (as the dutch say for a fart and three marbles), but today it seems like it has disappeared from the face of the earth. Nobody wants to order it for you and nobody even knows where from. We went to the farmacy here and also in Belgium and it turned out they could order it, but the price would be about $100 for a gallon! Then all of a sudden an agricultural advisor turned up and got me ten gallons for about $75. That's better! The datasheet that comes with the formic acid applicator references an paper by a German entomologist on the results. Anybody tried it and can tell us if FA is any good? It is a nasty skin etching stuff that ants use for chemical warfare, but it still seems a lot more natural than Apistan to me. 73's Richard -- Richard C. van Ouwerkerk, arts email richardc@pi.net anesthesioloog PE1KFM Geerdinkhof 529 telephone & fax +31 20 6953246 1103 RH AMSTERDAM ZUIDOOST The Netherlands "Das ist wirklich groszartig, Herr Kollege, was sie da geleistet haben" Einstein ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 Aug 1996 23:12:13 +0200 Reply-To: beeman@kuai.se Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: P-O Gustafsson Subject: Re: creamed honey Hults, Patricia wrote: > > I have been trying with no luck to locate a recipe/instructions on making > creamed honey. Thanks - Pat I have detailed instructions on my homepage http://www.kuai.se/~beeman/ about making creamed honey the easiest way. -- Regards P-O Gustafsson, Sweden beeman@kuai.se http://www.kuai.se/~beeman/ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 Aug 1996 17:27:44 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Charles Cannon Subject: Re: Wax Comments: To: joe.hemmens@ndirect.co.uk In a message dated 96-08-28 13:57:57 EDT, joe.hemmens@ndirect.co.uk (Joe Hemmens) writes: << Cecile T. Kohrs recently wrote: > Hi. > > I am a honey lover, and I have been having great debates with > friends about how bees make wax, and when beeswax candles were first > made. > > And honey...isn't it bee spit? > > I hope it isn't too trivial to ask, I am also interested in more > recipes using honey, and what I'd have to do to modify recipes to > use honey instead of sugar. > > Thanks in advance for your help . Then Joe Hemmens answers? > Firstly the second question, of course honey is nasty stuff and >might be better described not as 'spit' but as 'vomit' because bees >regurgitate it from their stomachs. Have nothing to do with it is my >advice. Why do you say honey is nasty and your advice is to have nothing to do with it and what are you doing subscibed to the BEE-L list if you are going to put down honey when someone asked a question about it that likes it. My grandfather was a diabetic and the only sweets he was able to have was the ones my mother made for him useing honey becouse other kinds of sugurs was bad for him so don't go around telling people that honey is nasty and dosn't taste good just becouse you don't like it!!!!!!!! Unhappy Beekeeper in FL. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 Aug 1996 15:45:49 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Dirk Howard Organization: Helius, Inc. http://www.helius.com Subject: Re: Wax Comments: cc: Charles Cannon Charles Cannon wrote: > > Then Joe Hemmens answers? > > > Firstly the second question, of course honey is nasty stuff and > >might be better described not as 'spit' but as 'vomit' because bees > >regurgitate it from their stomachs. Have nothing to do with it is my > >advice. > > Why do you say honey is nasty and your advice is to have nothing to do > with it and what are you doing subscibed to the BEE-L list if you are going > to > put down honey when someone asked a question about it that likes it. Charles, This was written using sarcasim, you know, humor. Set your humor mode to Andy Rooney style and try reading Joe's message again. -- Dirk W. Howard mailto:dhoward@helius.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 Aug 1996 17:50:20 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Cecile T. Kohrs" Subject: Re: Wax Hi. I'm new, as you all know, but I was delighted with Joe's humourous response. Perhaps the non-anglophiles will have to learn there is a thing called "British humour" which includes understatement and silliness. I'm willing to bet that his knowledge and participation on this list prove he AT LEAST respects bees. And puke is nasty. Joe has a point. Perhaps Mother Nature is English, making sweet honey via such a nasty mechanism! ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 Aug 1996 19:32:57 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Guy Miller Subject: Where does wax come from? According to my 1979 edition of The Hive and The Honey Bee, wax is secreted by wax glands possessed by 12 to 18 day old worker bees. It comes off in small flakes or scales from the last four abdominal segements on the underside of the bee. They have to consume a fair amount of honey, and the temperature must be between 33 and 36 degrees C for the whole process to work. The guys building the comb gorge themselves with honey and hang in sheets at the building site. (I've seen that in an observation hive, and never knew what they were about.) After 24 hours of hanging around, they begin to build. They pick off their own wax secretions, and chew them, adding some madibular gland secretions. Like kneading bread, I suppose, it eventually becomes smooth and dense, and is then added to the comb structure. The book says it takes about 4 minutes to deal with one flake. Lots of time and honey are consumed to produce the beautiful comb we take for granted! If the post-1979 editions say something else or in addition, please jump in. I'll work on honey next. Stay tuned. Guy F. Miller 2025 Spottswood Rd. Charlottesville, VA 22903 (804) 296-0090 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 Aug 1996 17:29:02 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Betty B Subject: Looking for bees My backyard is aching for a bee hive or two. Here in West Seattle, the weather is temperate and we have flowers of some sort most of the year, and several fruit trees. We do not use pesticides. The people who lived here a few years ago kept bees. Is there anyone in the area who would like to put a stand or two of bees here? I don't want to buy them, just give them a good home for a while. Betty B ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 Aug 1996 21:55:35 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Franklin Humphrey Subject: Re: Looking for hives, help please > > << After five years of hobby beekeeping, my young wife and I've decided to > advance to "sideliner" status with a trial of 50 additional colonies to add > to our current 8. She'll be doing most of the work, but what a dynamo! > Anyways, were to get 'em? From time to time I've seen bees advertised in Bee > Culture (which I get), but there havn't been any applicable ads in the last > couple months. American Bee Journal (which I've seen occasionally but not a > recent copy, subscribing soon) has a beefier classified section. Could a > current subscriber look for me in this and last month's ABJ and tell me if > there are local hives for sale?>> Hi Tim I to have made the decision to increase my the number of colonies I keep. For the past several years, the local demand for my honey has been greater than I could supply. The way I'm doing it is by using splits in the spring. I build all my own equipment except frames. Each summer in July I add a brood box of foundation above a queen excluder. By feeding them heavy, they will draw the comb out and fill it with syrup. In the fall I remove the queen excluder and allow the queen access to the top brood chamber. A good queen will fill both chambers with brood during the spring buildup. In the spring I put the queen and about 8 frames of brood in the bottom chamber and use the rest to start a new colony. This if a little slower than buying them all at once but you won't have so much worry about diseases from purchased bees. Also by going slower, I can let my market and abilities grow together and can stop grownig at whatever point I like. Frank Humphrey beekeepr@cdc.net ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 Aug 1996 22:16:13 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ian Watson Subject: Re: Wax In-Reply-To: <960828172743_511839341@emout18.mail.aol.com> On Wed, 28 Aug 1996, Charles Cannon wrote: > In a message dated 96-08-28 13:57:57 EDT, joe.hemmens@ndirect.co.uk (Joe > Hemmens) writes: > > << Cecile T. Kohrs recently wrote: > > > Hi. > > > > I am a honey lover, and I have been having great debates with > > friends about how bees make wax, and when beeswax candles were first > > made. > > > > And honey...isn't it bee spit? > > > > I hope it isn't too trivial to ask, I am also interested in more > > recipes using honey, and what I'd have to do to modify recipes to > > use honey instead of sugar. > > > > Thanks in advance for your help > . > Then Joe Hemmens answers? > > > Firstly the second question, of course honey is nasty stuff and > >might be better described not as 'spit' but as 'vomit' because bees > >regurgitate it from their stomachs. Have nothing to do with it is my > >advice. > > Why do you say honey is nasty and your advice is to have nothing to do > with it and what are you doing subscibed to the BEE-L list if you are going > to > put down honey when someone asked a question about it that likes it. > > My grandfather was a diabetic and the only sweets he was able to have was the > ones my mother made for him useing honey becouse other kinds of sugurs was > bad for him so don't go around telling people that honey is nasty and dosn't > taste > good just becouse you don't like it!!!!!!!! > > Unhappy Beekeeper in FL. > Dear Charles.... UM....... what you read was the result of a strange human ailment....its called...>> "A Sense of HUMOUR!!!!! sheeesh.......;) Ian Watson iwatson@freenet.npiec.on.ca ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 Aug 1996 22:51:34 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "William Nelson@Aol.Com" Subject: Re: Wax, re honey, re Mead, re natural products in general Yes thank you all sarcascim and understatement are wonderful forms of humor. Of course if honey is regurgitated bee food and Mead must be yeast pee. Hmmm amazing what we humans will swallow, digest, digress and laugh at. Of course that's why we're human. Apiarist, North Liberty Indiana, USA trying to not take my self too seriously without being stung. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 Aug 1996 23:40:55 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Tom Allen Subject: Re: Raising Queens Tom Eliot Thanks for cheking on my cousin .JohnChapman. Hope for better luck later.Is he listed in phone book One doen't recognize how badly one types until you see the quotes coming back. Native American faiths are worth studying no matter what you own convictions are. Comparative theology is of great import in learning more about our own beliefs. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 29 Aug 1996 04:17:48 GMT Reply-To: mjensen@crl.com Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Mark Jensen Organization: No Junk Mail Subject: Re: creamed honey Comments: To: nickw@wave.co.nz In-Reply-To: <199608282010.IAA16277@Axil.wave.co.nz> On Thu, 29 Aug 1996 07:21:07 +1100, you wrote: >> I have been trying with no luck to locate a recipe/instructions on making >> creamed honey. Thanks - Pat I mix about 10 gal of warm (95F) honey with 6 gal warmed creamed honey with a paint stirrer in an electric drill. I bottle it in 6 doz. pint jars and place the jars and the extra 6 gal. in a refrigerator set to 55F. At that temp it sets up in less than a week. -- Mark Jensen Double J Apiaries mjensen@crl.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 29 Aug 1996 00:26:38 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Tom Allen Subject: Re: Raising Queens Suggest "Breeding Techniques and Selection for Breeding of the Honeybee" freidrich Ruttner , written in German and Translated by Asheigh and Eric Milner Published by British Isles Bee Breeders Assoc Available on interlibrary Loan from University of Conn ,Waterbury Branch Bee Collection R 982 B 832 I am reading it now and will be returning it after Labor Day ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 29 Aug 1996 00:26:39 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Tom Allen Subject: Re: Multiple treatments of Apistan No only apply Apistan Strips twice a year. In early spring and at end of honey flow. some us are waiting until September if the hives are really strong and if there are no signs of varroa. Even though we may not find there there may be some. Play it safe. If you apply Apistan in July or August you must give up the late harvest. I am advised that Apistan can be detrimental to honey consumers. ????? ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 Aug 1996 21:45:09 -0800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Tom Elliott Organization: N/A Subject: Re: Raising Queens Tom Allen wrote: > > Tom Eliot > > Thanks for cheking on my cousin .JohnChapman. Hope for better luck later.Is he listed in phone book? No problem, and yes he is listed Telephone (907) 694-2606. No address. They do not include those in Eagle River. > One doen't recognize how badly one types until you see the quotes coming back.> Ain't it the truth> > Native American faiths are worth studying no matter what you own convictions are.> I will not knock someones beliefs because I disagree with them. I felt that: 1 - BEE-L was not an appropriate place for such a discussion, 2 - I felt that my faith was denigrated without any comparitive analysis. Again, I will discuss this with you anytime, but I feel BEE-L is not the place. Once again, glad I could help. -- "Test everything. Hold on to the good." (1 Thessalonians 5:21) Tom Elliott Eagle River, Alaska beeman@alaska.net ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 29 Aug 1996 04:56:00 GMT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Andy Nachbaur Organization: WILD BEE'S BBS (209) 826-8107 LOS BANOS, CA Subject: Drone Foundation Source & MORE >From: "Mark D. Egloff" >Date: Wed, 28 Aug 1996 16:14:39 EST >Subject: Drone Foundation Source of Supply? > I have been looking for a source for Drone sized foundation. > Does anyone know who handles it, it price, and such? > Mark Egloff > Dayton, Ohio. Hi Mark, Check with Dadant's & Son's, they have made it for me in the past on special order for large orders and may still have the die's around or even some stock. I have used 10's of thousand's sheets of drone foundation in 6 5/8 supers in all flavors of foundation, such as wired, plastic core, colored, and you name it. It works great, but if you do not have excluders you could end up rearing a lot more drones in the spring and today this would translate to a lot more Varroa Mites as they are said to prefer drone brood over worker. I can not tell you if this is so or not, but am sure that the varroa mites DO prefer the drones that are reared between the supers in double hives without excluders and suspect it is because it is warmer. That is I have never seen full frames of drone brood away from the center of the brood that was highly infested with mites. But that is not to say it does not happen or won't. On the up side of drone foundation it would amaze any beekeepers how fast and how many frames of it they will draw out wall to wall early in the spring with little flow, at least 3 or 4x more then worker foundation. It also extracts better in super fast extractors with out foundation's braking down. I do not think or could I ever detect any larger total numbers of drones in a season being reared or present with all the drone comb I could pile on my hives, but they will grow larger numbers of drones early on in the season, and this is advantages to anyone who rears queens. Also makes some real interesting looking swarms of bees that have more drones then workers that look as big as a man but will in a day or so fit in one or two boxes as the drones move on. The total number of drones reared in a season seems fixed as it may be with the worker bees themselves. But I should warn all this OLd Drone has no prejudices when it comes to the drones, or their numbers, the more the better! I know you can extend the time it takes for a queen to lay out her normal number of eggs of any caste with a queen excluder but in the end there are limits regulated by genetics, and your local bee environment. Colonies with excluders grow just as big as ones without it just takes longer. This is not to say you can not 'high ball' queens to do more with more apiary movement, and/or diet supplements but in the end you only reduce the life span of the queen and have to replace her which is the secret of most successful migratory beekeepers today who use gasoline to gain more brood and more bee's and honey by extending the bee season by moving there bees from early southern or western pastures to later northern or eastern pastures. A estimated 1,200 semi loads of bee's move into and out of California each season, and maybe 2,000 or more for the total US. In the future, maybe in the next century when NAFTA is 100% working the range of movement may reach far south into Mexico and north into Canada. I have found no difference in any of the commercial strains of bee's available today in the US in this respect. They all are only good for so many frames of brood per season, but in the past I have had some darker strains of queens that were long living and productive as the best in any honey flow but would brake us today in our needs to make divides with brood or bees as they just never did grow a surplus of brood or bees but had brood when other stock did not and queens they would outlast most high school bee helpers, four years and more. One stock that I used until the old Georgia bee breeder died was of the gray Caucasian variety and also were so gentle that I could and did take unaware visitors, some beekeepers, some not, out into the bee yard at anytime of year, good or bad weather and without smoke of any kind pull the hives apart and demonstrate how gentle the bees were by tossing the bees off a frame into the air. May have had a few racing pulses but never had anyone stung including myself. These bees were also slow to stop rearing bees and would have done well in eight frame hives but were productive as any I ever had. I used to keep them together in one truck load yard just to enjoy a day of working bees without fear of the normal ration of stings. ttul OLd Drone (c) Permission is granted to freely copy this document in any form, or to print for any use. (w)Opinions are not necessarily facts. Use at own risk. --- ~ QMPro 1.53 ~ Beekeepers Dream..... 80,000+ Females in one box....!. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 29 Aug 1996 18:41:21 +1000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Bruce Laidlaw Subject: My first swarm collected :) Dear people, Start of the swarm season soon here in Sydney. And I am a beginner beekeeper. I got my first swarm on Sunday evening. Got a call from another beginner (12 months, same as me) whose bees had swarmed but he didn't want them (he has two hives, I have one). It was huge (large watermelon size) - and hanging in a little bush with the bottom touching the ground. Quite hard to knock them into a garbage bag. But they seemed almost too big for my 8 frame box. The colony seemed so big that I rushed around on Monday morning and borrowed an empty super and 8 frames to put on top, so they wouldn't be so crowded. I looked in this morning (Thurs) for the first time (no smoker, just a little sugar water spray and they were all very peaceful). Hardly 20 bees in the top super, so I put it on the lid and pulled out the bottom frames. Lots of comb being (what's the word?) built up, but the flat foundation that I had put in was quite warped, you know, buckling between the wires. Two of the frames were stuck together. The wax must have melted with the heat of the bees, I think. I've never heard of this happening before. So when I pulled up one of the frames it pulled a huge slab of foundation from the other, and they had built an irregular chunk joining the two. (Yes they were properly spaced before.) Only a bit of nectar and a little pollen at the bottom of some of the half drawn out cells (that's the word), so I left the broken frames in front of the hive in case they wanted to retrieve the nectar. I left the top super off (well, I now had only about 10 or 11 usable frames), but before I left for work they seemed to be hanging around the door a bit more. Hope they're not too crowded. No sign of the queen, but I'll look in again in a few days to see if there are any eggs. Bruce ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 29 Aug 1996 10:27:27 BST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Malcolm Roe Subject: Replacing sugar with honey. (Was Re: Wax) In-Reply-To: <199608290407.AA206691633@hplb.hpl.hp.com>; from "Cecile T. Kohrs" at Aug 27, 96 7:08 pm Cecile T. Kohrs wrote stuff about bee spit, followed by: > .... > I hope it isn't too trivial to ask, I am also interested in more recipes > using honey, and what I'd have to do to modify recipes to use honey instead > of sugar. This may be of interest: Date: Tue, 05 Dec 1995 22:39:12 GMT From: Anne. (awhite@fuller.edu) Subject: Sugar to Honey Conversion I don't eat sugar, but substitute honey in any recipes. The basic rule of conversion that I use is this: If you are cooking it, use 3/4 honey for each cup of sugar. If you don't cook it, use 1/2 cup of honey for each cup of sugar. Then, for each cup of honey used, reduce the liquids by 3/4 cup. If there is little or no liquid (such as oatmeal cookies), add an extra egg or two. You may have to experiment with how many eggs will work to keep it from being too crumbly. Liquids like milk or juices can be reduced without losing flavor by using powdered milk or frozen juice concentrates. -- Malcolm Roe mdr@hplb.hpl.hp.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 29 Aug 1996 13:58:19 GMT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Eric Abell Subject: Re: Drone Foundation Source of Supply? At 04:14 PM 8/28/96 EST, you wrote: > Gentlepeople: > > I have been looking for a source for Drone sized foundation. > Does anyone know who handles it, it price, and such? > > Mark Egloff > Dayton, Ohio. Just a suggestion but could you not take drawn comb and scrape it down to the midrib. Most of this will be repaired as drone cells. Eric Eric Abell Gibbons, Alberta Canada (403) 998 3143 eabell@compusmart.ab.ca ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 29 Aug 1996 06:43:34 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Paul Cronshaw, D.C." Subject: Removing new swarm from house Bee-listers, I went up into an attic tonight to inspect a swarm that moved into its new quarters over the weekend. The swarm has set up housekeeping in the attic space near the chimney, with the entrance where the chimney meets the eaves. Great location, nice and warm. While in the attic, I can see the upper part of the swarm but it was a foot out of reach, wedged in between the ceiling and sloping roof rafters. As in all swarm removals there are 3 choices: 1. Remove the outside wall = stucco. Not an option at this time. 2. Destroy with soapy water. Owner is very understanding about the diminishing bee population and would like to save them, Also she has heard of a Chinese proverb that states "Bees in a house = a house that is blessed". Where did this saying come from? 3. Bait the swarm out. ATTIC APPROACH. Would a few frames of brood placed near the swarm entice them to move away from their newly formed comb? (They have only been there since 5 days ago) OUTSIDE APPROACH. Use a bait hive and wire screen funnel to remove most of the field bees. Any input into this project would be helpful. Paul Cronshaw DC Cyberchiro and Hobby Beekeeper ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 29 Aug 1996 10:20:57 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Mike Griggs Subject: Re: Removing new swarm from house In-Reply-To: Sounds like you will need to use several approaches. I would use my shop vac to remove the majority of the bees before they have time to get an established nest. I have a special shopvac which captures the bees in a box prior to entering the vacuum. I would combine these with a new queen and write off the other unless I happened to find her and collect her in good shap. I would place a bee escape over the entrance to allow bees to exit but not return, the bees collected from inside with a queen would be placed in proximity to the entrance as a bait hive. Many of the bees will eventually drift to the new position after it is obvious they are not getting back in. finally I would kill any bees remaining (after a period when I felt I could not gety any more) and seal the entrance to prevent a repeat occurance. Hope this helps Cheers Mike >Bee-listers, > >I went up into an attic tonight to inspect a swarm that moved into its new >quarters over the weekend. > >The swarm has set up housekeeping in the attic space near the chimney, with >the entrance where the chimney meets the eaves. Great location, nice and >warm. > >While in the attic, I can see the upper part of the swarm but it was a foot >out of reach, wedged in between the ceiling and sloping roof rafters. > >As in all swarm removals there are 3 choices: > >1. Remove the outside wall = stucco. Not an option at this time. > >2. Destroy with soapy water. Owner is very understanding about the >diminishing bee population and would like to save them, Also she has heard >of a Chinese proverb that states "Bees in a house = a house that is >blessed". Where did this saying come from? > >3. Bait the swarm out. > > ATTIC APPROACH. Would a few frames of brood placed near the swarm entice >them to move away from their newly formed comb? (They have only been there >since 5 days ago) > >OUTSIDE APPROACH. Use a bait hive and wire screen funnel to remove most of >the field bees. > >Any input into this project would be helpful. > >Paul Cronshaw DC >Cyberchiro and Hobby Beekeeper ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 29 Aug 1996 08:20:34 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Mark F. Almond" Subject: Re: Removing new swarm from house Hello Mike, I think you have the correct solution to new swarm in a house. I am interested how you converted the shop vac into a bee vacumn. I would like to construct one if possible. Do you have any plans or diagrams or instructions that you could pass along to me. I would like to build one for our bee association to use next summer. Thank you in advance. Mark... Markos@ix.netcom.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 29 Aug 1996 11:40:28 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Kelley Rosenlund Subject: Looking for hives, help please Excellent! It is good to hear of more people getting into beekeeping on a larger scale. Most of the beekeepers I have met have moved onto other careers or will soon be retiring. I have to agree with Dave Green though, give this some thought. 1. How much spare time do the two of you have to tend the bees? 2. How much money can you afford to spend? 3. Where will you keep the bees? Property that has enough nectar plants for 8 may not have enough for 58. 4. Where will you store empty supers and hive bodies? I ask these things cause they are problems I have had to deal with: 1. I bought my first hive in April 95 and within a year had 130. I am now around 200. Working a full time job and tending 200 hives does not leave time for much else. I have also lost many hives to either swarms or them dying cause I did not give them the proper attention. Consequently I have lost a fair amount of comb to wax worms. 2. The money I spent buying 130 hives could have been better spent buying say 50 hives and splitting. I now have 8 and 10 frame equipment, 3 different size supers. I will have to turn around and try to sell this odd stuff in the future. 3. As to where to keep the bees, have recently found out August has a poor nectar flow here. Not a problem when I had a few hives but now with so many competing for nectar I have had to feed some of my yards, taking time and money away from other beekeeping tasks. 4. Where to store equipment? I have had to store most of my equipment outdoors. I have had to stack my deadouts onto other hives to keep the wax moths at bay, a big problem in sunny Florida. Call your bee inspector. He can be a good source of who is selling equipment. I wish we lived closer as I have a lot of 10 frame stuff for sale. Even with all the mistakes I have made I am still very excited about beekeeping! I encourage you to expand but learn from the mistakes of others. God Bless, Kelley Rosenlund rosenlk@freenet.ufl.edu Gainesville, Florida, U.S.A., Phone:352-378-7510 200 hives, 1 year in beekeeping. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 29 Aug 1996 10:16:00 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Maleta, Donald M @ VFL" Subject: Just some thoughts The comment made by: >>Paul Cronshaw DC >>Cyberchiro and Hobby Beekeeper "Owner is very understanding about the diminishing bee population and would like to save them", Made me take notice. In addition to my hobby beekeeping I also do bee, wasp, hornet and yellow jacket removals (hobby also). The response from the public has been overwhelming concerning their understanding and concern for the"BEES". They call before spraying to see if I can save their bees. They don't want them near their kids but they want them saved if at all possible. The problem is almost 100% of the people I encounter can't tell the difference between a bee and the other critters. I haven't seen one swarm this year. At least the public is concerned about our plight. Don dmaleta@aol.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 29 Aug 1996 11:08:40 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Barbara Larson Subject: Re: Wax At 05:50 PM 8/28/96 -0400, you wrote: >Perhaps the non-anglophiles will have to learn there is a thing called >"British humour" which includes understatement and silliness. I'm pure American, and loved the response. Get a Life, or at least a sense of Humor! Maybe you'd be less 'Unhappy'!! Barb ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 29 Aug 1996 08:50:27 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Franklin D. Humphrey Sr" Subject: Re: Narrow Excluders or Fat Bees? -Reply Gerry Visel wrote: > > Tim Peters wrote: > > " At our summer beekeepers' meeting it was suggested to put excluders between > the entrance board and the brood chamber to keep mice out but allow > the entrance to remain open for ventilation." > > I like the idea of a dual purpose excluder, but excluders also trap drones. They will plug up > the excluder if you don't let 'em out. > > Gerry Visel > GCVisel@SNDS.COM > (815) 226-6620 > (815) 394-5438 or -2827 (fax)Hi Gerry I use 1/2" hardware cloth bent so that it can be wedged in the entrance. This keeps out the mice, allows ventilation and does not keep drones in ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 29 Aug 1996 18:11:39 +0000 Reply-To: joe.hemmens@ndirect.co.uk Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Joe Hemmens Subject: Re: Wax and British Humour Well, I didn't mean to offend anybody. British humour obviously does not travel well, but to find honey described as 'bee-spit' begs an equally inappropriate response. I will be more serious in future. Actually, I love honey and the main reason I keep bees is so that my family can enjoy one of nature's great gifts, and I love bees too. Best wishes Joe Hemmens ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 29 Aug 1996 15:54:55 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Charles Cannon Subject: Re: Wax and British Humour Comments: To: joe.hemmens@ndirect.co.uk Hello, My name is Charles the unhappy beekeeper in FL. I'am sorry i didn't catch the joke that you intended it to be. Here is the reason why i wrote what i did about 2 or 3 weeks ago my wife took some of are honey into work with her so a friend could taste some that didn't come from the store well at lunch time her in her friend was talking about bees and honey when this guy came over to put his 2 cents in the conversation in told her friend that honey is nothing but bee sh--t and that he would never eat the stuff and that all the bees should be killed well when i read the the first part of your reply it struck a raw nerve that here was somebody else puting down honey again just becouse they didn't like it. There are some ignorant people out there when it comes to bees and honey that they don't how its made in when its refered to as spit,vomit,sh--t or what ever it kind of turns people off you wouldn't won't to eat vomit i sure wouldn't. When i first met my wife she thought honey was made from pollen mixed with water but she knows better now. Well enough about this the friend was set straight about things and tryed the honey got a nother custemer for the 97 honey flow. Sorry again that i took it the wrong way by the way i'am not unhappy in fact i'am very happy with two sons and 7 hives and a wonderful wife that puts up with my bullshit everyday. BEE END FROM FL. CHARLES !!!!!!!!! ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 29 Aug 1996 16:01:45 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: David Eyre Subject: Re: Drone Foundation Source of Supply? > I have been looking for a source for Drone sized foundation. > Does anyone know who handles it, it price, and such? We can supply Drone foundation (in small quantities if required). An e-mail to me will supply the details. **************************************************** * David Eyre 9 Progress Drive, Unit 2, * * The Beeworks, Orillia, Ontario, L3V 6H1. * * beeworks@muskoka.net 705-326-7171 * * http://www.muskoka.net/~beeworks * * Agents for: E H Thorne & B J Sherriff UK. * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 29 Aug 1996 16:09:51 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Victor M. Kroenke" Subject: Re: Wax and British Humour Comments: To: joe.hemmens@ndirect.co.uk Joe Hemmens wrote: > > Well, I didn't mean to offend anybody. British humour obviously > does not travel well, but to find honey described as 'bee-spit' begs > an equally inappropriate response. I will be more serious in future. > > Actually, I love honey and the main reason I keep bees is so that my > family can enjoy one of nature's great gifts, and I love bees too. > > Best wishes > > Joe Hemmens I have heard honey referred to as "bee barf" on a number of occasions. This sounds better than bee spit or bee vomit. This always sounded like an accurate analysis of the product. Think about where other foods come from such as eggs, milk, meats, and fish. I like rabbit so long as I am not the one to butcher the rabbit. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 30 Aug 1996 05:16:25 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: MORRIS BOOTON Subject: Re: Removing new swarm from house Mark F. Almond wrote: > > Hello Mike, I think you have the correct solution to new swarm in a > house. I am interested how you converted the shop vac into a bee > vacumn. I would like to construct one if possible. Do you have any > plans or diagrams or instructions that you could pass along to me. I > would like to build one for our bee association to use next summer. > Thank you in advance. > Mark... Markos@ix.netcom.comI would also like to be able to get the plans. Why don't post it on this list for all of us poor folks? Booto ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 29 Aug 1996 18:08:13 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Joel Govostes Subject: Re: Drone Foundation/EZ comb honey For a couple of years I tried to be frugal by fitting honey super frames with only a strip of foundation as a starter. It would be maybe an inch and a half or less wide, and several could be cut from one sheet of foundation. To secure each strip in the top bar groove, I cut some squares of cardboard/corrugated paper about 3/4" square. I would fold these in half and shove them into the groove (3 per frame) adjacent to the foundation with the flat end of my hive tool. The pressure was enough to hold the strip until the bees fastened it. I found this to be very quick and easy. Several of my medium honey supers are now full of "natural" combs constructed in this fashion, and it is virtually all nice drone comb. Although my original intention was to use these for cut-comb, after a couple of seasons now the combs are strong and well fit for the extractor. BTW many frames outfitted this way have been cut for comb honey, and by leaving a bit (1/4 - 1/2") of comb along the top bar the bees will usually build another set of straight combs the next season. (9 or 10 frames/super) Why not just let the bees construct natural comb if you want drone comb (for mite trapping or whatever)? They seem to welcome the opportunity. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 29 Aug 1996 18:19:46 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Joel Govostes Subject: Drones reared in supers (?!) Somewhere a while back I remember reading somewhere about laying workers in *queenright* colonies. This topic has interested me once again, as I have been seeing some substantial patches of drone brood here and there in some honey supers as I have been harvesting honey. Now granted, I'm not using queen excluders, BUT these patches of drone brood are in supers near the top of the stack, with full honey supers below them. Which means her highness would have to cross a great deal of honey to find the drone comb to lay in. I wonder if the workers are up to this mischief. I recall seeing drone brood like this (always late summer/early fall) in past seasons, when excluders were used, as well. I would become alarmed that the queen had been trapped *above* the excluder due to some mistake on my part. Yet, I would find her below with a normal happy brood nest. The question here is, do others see this late in the season, and does anyone have info about laying workers existing and rearing drone brood in a normal queenright hive? Thanks for any comments -J ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 29 Aug 1996 13:45:31 -1000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Wal;ter patton" Subject: Re: Honey jars, etc. Aloha the source for the bottles is Honey Tree Inc, In Onsted MI.They may not be the best place as I only buy in 100 case lots. Enjoyed meeting you and best of luck with your research. WAlter > Walter & Elisabeth Patton, 27-703 A Ka' ie'ie Rd., Papaikou HI.,96781 Ph./Fax. 808-964-5401 E-Mail hihoney@ilhawaii Beekeeper and Bed & Breakfast Owner in Hawaii http://www.alohamall.com/hamakua/hihoney.htm http://www.alohamall.com/hamakua/beeware.htm http://www.alohamall.com/hamakua/lamalani.htm ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 29 Aug 1996 18:25:42 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Betty B Subject: Re: Wax and British Humour This brings up another question: If bepuke is honey, pollen is pollen, just what is beeshit? Betty B At 03:54 PM 8/29/96 -0400, you wrote: >Hello, >My name is Charles the unhappy beekeeper in FL. >I'am sorry i didn't catch the joke that you intended it to be. >Here is the reason why i wrote what i did about 2 or 3 weeks ago my wife took >some >of are honey into work with her so a friend could taste some that didn't come >from the store well at lunch time her in her friend was talking about bees >and honey when this >guy came over to put his 2 cents in the conversation in told her friend that >honey is nothing but bee sh--t and that he would never eat the stuff and that >all the bees should be killed well when i read the the first part of your >reply it struck a raw nerve >that here was somebody else puting down honey again just becouse they didn't >like >it. >There are some ignorant people out there when it comes to bees and honey that >they >don't how its made in when its refered to as spit,vomit,sh--t or what ever it >kind of turns people off you wouldn't won't to eat vomit i sure wouldn't. >When i first met my wife she thought honey was made from pollen mixed with >water >but she knows better now. >Well enough about this the friend was set straight about things and tryed the >honey >got a nother custemer for the 97 honey flow. >Sorry again that i took it the wrong way by the way i'am not unhappy in fact >i'am very >happy with two sons and 7 hives and a wonderful wife that puts up with my >bullshit >everyday. >BEE END FROM FL. >CHARLES !!!!!!!!! > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 29 Aug 1996 15:42:00 GMT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Andy Nachbaur Organization: WILD BEE'S BBS (209) 826-8107 LOS BANOS, CA Subject: Essential Oils- Wax D>From: djt@dolphin.upenn.edu (David J Trickett) >Subject: Essential Oils D>I have been trying to get someone at EPA, USDA, or FDA to >confirm or deny that application of these treatments would render honey >illegal for sale. No luck so far, but I'll keep calling. Well Dave, I can assure you that if natural chemicals end up in the honey in detectable amounts not normally found it will be a problem and you need not wait for any official answer. D>Assuming application of mint oils is effective against mites, it >would behoove us to obtain some sort of official sanction for its >implementation. I assert this because these treatments appear to be >cheaper than apistan, and because use of apistan is (or will be) reducing >honey's standing as a "safe," "natural," semi-organic food. (I don't >care what the label says about no detectable residues resulting when used >properly. Could bee if thymol, other E-Oils, or Neem products are used as supplements to bee foods by the beekeeper the same as he uses sugar, yeasts, soy products, veg'ee oils and there is no problems I would expect that nothing need to be done in the way of regulation at the beekeeper level. If you are into selling this stuff to your neighbors you better have a approved label for the product you are selling and its intended use. There is nothing wrong with adding say thymol to fortify a bee protein diet as it has been used for years off and on for such things in human, animal and insect diets and could be classified as inert ingredients and not even disclosed as long as it does not end up in the honey which would be the same with any of ingredients normally fed to bees. If it protects the bees from disease, pests, or parasites at the same time it fills their needs for fortified food that is a free bonus of good nutrition and should not be regulated under any laws now applicable that would only inflate the cost and alarm the public. None of us know what feed goes into a cow to produce the milk we all consume in one form or another. The dairyman does use regulated products, but also is free to add what ever additional diet supplements he finds beneficial to his herds diet to keep it disease free and does not have to disclose them unless they start to show up in the milk. Honey producers should expect no different treatment from regulators for the food additives they add to their bee's diets as long as it does not show up in the Honey and much of what we have fed is also found in other animal diets. Now if the same ingredients are to be used to treat a pest or disease then thats a whole different ball game and you may need registration with the supporting research to sell and use it. >And what about the big guys out there using "home remedy?") What big guys? You must mean big honey producers, most of them are not in any position to have their honey found to contain any chemical residues of any kind, and all the major honey packers and industrial users have labs to check honey for chemical residues and adulteration of any kind and do not buy from any "big guy's" who use any "home remedy". A big producer is in no better position to have honey sent back or dumped down the tubes because of home remedy use then is the small guy. Then we should also know that there is a difference between "home remedy" and "home brew". I tried for years to find a way to feed bees proteins in a liquid diet using pure pollen as the source of protein. I knew that all foods consumed by honeybees are consumed as a liquid as they are not provided with the tools to hunk off a chunk like we are. I never succeeded in doing much for the bees but did find the outer limits that when the bees consumed my liquid diet they would just flat quit feeding brood but never found a value in that. I also learned a lot about "home brew" as there is a big difference between the pollen bees bring into the hive and the pollen that they consume as food. Bee collected pollen that has naturally fermented may be a better ingredient for adding to bee diet supplements then pollen that has not fermented as the bees maybe going to ferment any pollen they bring in the hive into "bee bread" before using it anyway. In fact if there is real danger in all of the things we beekeepers do to our bees it is first to the bees themselves, 2nd the beekeeper and his own family, and then to whomever he gives or sells his honey locally and this includes all beekeepers big or small. When I was a big beekeeper I did not give or sell my own honey to anyone but the honey buyers and always purchased bottled honey, sometimes my own to give away as gifts and know many other beekeepers who do the same including the biggest of the big in California where we pay big cash rents for most bee locations and don't get much for a can of honey any more when it comes to public relations or bee locations. D>Also, is anyone else out there worried about the wax pool becoming >contaminated? ("Wax Pool..." what a thing to be worried about! Sure there are in fact a lot of very interested people who do watch very close, maybe even closer then honey as there are many pharmaceutical uses that require beeswax. They are know as BeesWax Buyers and Refiners, usually the guy who buys the wax from the guy beekeepers sell it too, and you can be sure they have employed very respected and knowledgeable chemists. The beeswax market has detected small changes in beeswax over the years and in fact the standard analyst may have been changed a few years back to reflect the increase of bromides in natural wax from two decades of using several different chemicals in controlling wax moths by beekeepers, or maybe some other environmental use. At times wax adulated with other non beeswax waxes is also detected but since the advent of all plastic frames this has leveled out. Beeswax is a renumeral resource that is because much of it went back into the bee comb foundation and changes in the environment were somewhat trapped or magnified in the beeswax harvested from year to year. The vast majority of things that you and I would worry about are removed in the normal processing of beeswax on the farm or at the wax refinery. Beeswax can be treated with chemicals and filtering agents that remove most all of the contaminates if they are known. And pure beeswax is really refined beeswax at the industrial consumer level. Beeswax is so individual and reflects how the individual beekeeper handles his own beeswax that buyers on the third tier of handling have been able to trace it back to individual producers and areas of actual production because of identifiable differences. Very similar to raw gold which also can be traced back to the area it was first dug up and sometimes to the mine itself and it is a normal analytical assay practice to avoid "salting" which would be common if not held down by assay chemists.. >Minimally, this has some serious implications for queen breeding >since the "cups" grafted into and used for starting queen cells need >to be free of anything that would harm the larvae - and my >understanding is that many of the big queen producers buy >the cups rather than produce them. Don't know about others but around here the bee breeders make their own cups or use the plastic cell cups. I don't know anyone who buys wax cell cups but someone must I am sure. >I wonder if anyone in the production >end is watching this. I would think that this would be one of the first >place that miticide residues would begin to be a problem, next perhaps in >foundation used for brood frames, and last for foundation used for honey >frames. Bad manufactured wax cell cups have been know to kill or damage many queens bee grubs in the past and everyone at all levels are alert to any new problems or reports of them. I know of none with wax cell cups, but now bad sugar syrup is a sad story for another time. D>If there's any legitimacy to this concern, we may end up experiencing >the problem in the next year or two in the form of commercial queen >producers experiencing difficulty in producing queens - even after/if we >find a replacement for apistan. We all share some concern but I am more concerned that beekeeper have jumped on the agricultural chemical merry go around and without some benign treatment for mites like the use of essential oils of one kind or another will in time never bee able to get off without some fear of their bees being destroyed by mites. ttul Andy- (c) Permission is granted to freely copy this document in any form, or to print for any use. (w)Opinions are not necessarily facts. Use at own risk. --- ~ QMPro 1.53 ~ ... Where the wild bee never flew, ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 29 Aug 1996 22:03:20 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ian Watson Subject: Re: Wax and British Humour In-Reply-To: <199608300125.SAA21665@m1.sprynet.com> On Thu, 29 Aug 1996, Betty B wrote: > This brings up another question: > > If bepuke is honey, pollen is pollen, just what is beeshit? > > Betty B Okay Betty....give the guy a break, eh?..;) Ian Watson iwatson@freenet.npiec.on.ca ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 29 Aug 1996 19:32:37 +0100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Gordon Scott Subject: Re: Where does wax come from? In-Reply-To: <19960828233254829.AAA171@remote-33.modems.comet.net> On Wed, 28 Aug 1996, Guy Miller wrote: > The guys building the comb gorge themselves with honey and hang in > sheets at the building site. (I've seen that in an observation hive, and > never knew what they were about.) I reckon that hanging helps them to ensure the comb is truly vertical in the nest. -- Gordon Scott gordon@apis.demon.co.uk gordon@multitone.co.uk (work) The Basingstoke Beekeeper (newsletter) beekeeper@apis.demon.co.uk Embryo Home Page Beekeeper; Kendo 3rd Dan; Sometime sailor. Hampshire, England. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 30 Aug 1996 13:16:40 +1100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Chris Allen Subject: Multimedia Software Does any one know of any multimedia software about bees and beekeepeing? I belong to a beekeeping group that often has visits from local schools etc. I want to try using some multimedia packages for this sort of thing. The only ones I know of are a few short segments in Encarta and Dangerous Creatures. Niether of these snippets are long enough to be counted and one of them is not distorts the truth to the piont that I would not use it. However they do show what is possible. If you can recommend any, please let me know where I can find it. email > callen@msp.masterpack.com.au snailmail > Chris Allen, 7 Waratah St, Canterbury, 2193, Australia Regards Chris Allen ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 29 Aug 1996 21:43:57 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Betty B Subject: Re: Wax and British Humour At 10:03 PM 8/29/96 -0400, you wrote: >On Thu, 29 Aug 1996, Betty B wrote: > >> This brings up another question: >> >> If bepuke is honey, pollen is pollen, just what is beeshit? >> >> Betty B >Okay Betty....give the guy a break, eh?..;) > > Ian Watson > iwatson@freenet.npiec.on.ca > I'm serious. It has to go somewhere, and I am sure that the bees don't have an outhouse. What is it called and where is it stored? ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ We are like kids' art on God's refrigerator. - " ` " ` _- -_`-_|'\ /` _/ / / -' `~()() \_\ _ /\-._/\/ / | | bettyb@sprynet.com "Our biggest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our light, not our darkness, that most frightens us. We ask ourselves, who am I to be brilliant, gorgeous, talented and fabulous? Actually, who are you NOT to be? You are a child of God. Your playing small doesn't serve the world. There's nothing enlightened about shrinking so that other people won't feel insecure around you. We were born to make manifest the glory of God that is within us. It's not just in some of us; it's in everyone. And as we let our own light shine, we unconsciously give other people permission to do the same. As we are liberated from our own fear, our presence automatically liberates others." (Nelson Mandela) ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 30 Aug 1996 15:45:42 +1000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Bruce Laidlaw Subject: what is beeshit? Betty B wrote: >> > >I'm serious. It has to go somewhere, and I am sure that the bees don't have >an outhouse. What is it called and where is it stored? > It's all those yellow-brown spots on the roof of my car :) ------------------------------------------------- \ Bruce Laidlaw / \ Head Teacher / \ Foundation Studies / \ East Sydney College of TAFE / \ (Technical & Further Education) / \ Darlinghurst / \ New South Wales / \ Australia 2010 / \ +61-2-9569-2854 (h) 9339-8648 (w) / \ http://pip.com.au/~abestuds/ / ================================================ (\ /) {|||8- Beekeeper -8|||} (/ \) ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 30 Aug 1996 02:21:06 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Charles Cannon Subject: Re: Wax and British Humour In a message dated 96-08-30 00:50:54 EDT, you write: << At 10:03 PM 8/29/96 -0400, you wrote: >On Thu, 29 Aug 1996, Betty B wrote: > >> This brings up another question: >> >> If bepuke is honey, pollen is pollen, just what is beeshit? >> >> Betty B >Okay Betty....give the guy a break, eh?..;) > > Ian Watson > iwatson@freenet.npiec.on.ca > > I'm serious. It has to go somewhere, and I am sure that the bees don't have > an outhouse. What is it called and where is it stored? Hi there Charles again, Well what the guy was saying was that honey was made from bee shit and he wouldn't eat any thing that came out of a bees ass is my under standing from what my wife told me i guess someone told him when he was little and he beleaved them. What is it called and where is it stored? Bee dooky, crap, shit,dropings or what ever its still crap as to where it is stored its not the bees fly out of the hive to take a shit except for the queen she has her attendents to wipe her ass for her unless they are confined and can"t get out to do there business. little joke about the queen part please no more nasty mail i learned my lesson i won't take things as serious again please forgive the beekeeper in FL. who didn't get the joke. BEE END!!!!!!! Charles ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 30 Aug 1996 03:29:35 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Trevor Weatherhead Subject: Re; Drones reared in supers Joel Govotes asked if you can get drones in a queen right hive above the queen excluder. The answer is yes. Dr. Ben Oldroyd from the University of Sydney carried out some genetic work on some drones I supplied a couple of years ago. Ben requested samples if beekeepers saw drone brood above the queen excluder. This was brood that had not been brought up by the beekeper from the brood box. I haven't found his published work yet but as I recall it turned out that worker bees were turning into laying workers and putting this drone brood above the queen excluder. As part of his experiment, he found out by DNA testing that the queen, from which the laying workers came, had mated with about 10 (cannot recall the exact number) drones. I haven't seen this drone brood above the queen excluder since but I have a mate who has seen this also. I will keep looking for the reference and will post it on Bee-L when I find it. Trevor Weatherhead M.S. 825 Middle Road Peak Crossing 4306 Queensland AUSTRALIA e.mail queenbee@gil.com.au ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 30 Aug 1996 11:08:07 +0000 Reply-To: joe.hemmens@ndirect.co.uk Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Joe Hemmens Subject: Re: Multimedia Software Dear Chris > Does any one know of any multimedia software about bees and beekeepeing? > > I belong to a beekeeping group that often has visits from local schools etc. > I want to try using some multimedia packages for this sort of thing. > > The only ones I know of are a few short segments in Encarta and Dangerous > Creatures. > Niether of these snippets are long enough to be counted and one of them is > not distorts the truth to the piont that I would not use it. However they > do show what is possible. > > If you can recommend any, please let me know where I can find it. > > email > callen@msp.masterpack.com.au > snailmail > Chris Allen, 7 Waratah St, Canterbury, 2193, Australia If you look at http://members.tripod.com/~DARGUK/sites.htm you will find a link to download some beekeeping shareware designed to run on a PC with a mouse. I have seen it briefly and thought that it was extremely good. It won't teach the informed beekeeper much, but for non beekeepers and children it is very suitable and easy to use. Best wishes Joe Hemmens ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 29 Aug 1996 20:44:40 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Adrian Wenner Subject: Re: Honey jars, etc. Aloha to you, too, Walter! You wrote: >the source for the bottles is Honey Tree Inc, In Onsted MI.They may >not be the best place as I only buy in 100 case lots. Yes, but you mentioned that you bought the lids for your bottles from a different source --- one that could offer lids with self-sealing membranes. >Enjoyed meeting you and best of luck with your research. I really enjoyed meeting you and Elizabeth. You may have seen the two letters in the recent issue of BEE CULTURE that attacked Rosin's guest editorial in the June issue. In next month's issue you should see my retort to those two more recent letters. With best wishes to both you and Elizabeth. And, Aloha! Adrian Adrian M. Wenner (805) 893-2838 (UCSB office) Ecol., Evol., & Marine Biology (805) 893-8062 (UCSB FAX) Univ. of Calif., Santa Barbara (805) 963-8508 (home office & FAX) Santa Barbara, CA 93106 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 30 Aug 1996 10:06:19 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Dave Green, Eastern Pollinator Newsletter" Subject: The Starlings of the Yellow Jacket World This is the time of year when you hear a lot of fussing about yellow jackets. (Or, if the fusser hasn't looked too closely -- "bees" -- which seems to mean "anything that stings.") Bees are important pollinators, yellow jackets do little pollination. So we need to protect bees, and kill yellow jackets -- Right? Actually yellow jackets have an old and honorable tradition. Our native yellow jackets (hundreds of species) are an important biological control for pest insects. They LOVE to catch and feed their young that fat juicy caterpillar that's munching on your cabbage. And they do a little pollination too. But we have one scoundrel amongst them - the German yellow jacket. It was accidently imported in the 1940's and has spread across the continent. It has no significant enemies here, so it overpopulates, crowding out and replacing more beneficial types. It also is a scavanger. ...And has a sweet tooth. By mid-summer, when populations are built up, to the first killing freeze, they'll be out looking for your soda, or anything sweet you throw into the dumpster. They can be a royal pest at the Labor Day picnic. They love to suck the juices from ripe fruits, and by breaking the skin, open them up for other critters, too And, if you run your mower over their underground nest, they will sting like fury. There is a file common around university or extension web sites, which you can usually find by running a search at the site. One is at: http://sunsite.unc.edu/pub/academic/agriculture/entomology/beekeeping/general/ yellowjackets/ This will tell you how to kill yellow jackets. Now if you see your local handyman-type yellow jacket, be nice to it. But if it is the German yellow jacket, the starling of the yellow jacket world, you have permission to kill it, and all her sisters. For a picture of a German yellow jacket, which is smaller than a honeybee, stop by http://users.aol.com/pollinator/compare.htm This, compared to a honeybees can help in identification. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 30 Aug 1996 11:59:27 PST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Steven A. Creasy" Subject: Plastic Foundation Hello Bee Tenders! Ther has probably been a post on this in times past, but I am fairly new to the list, and since this is the time to think of next year, maybe some others can benefit from the wealth of knowledge which resides here. I am looking for others' experience with plastic foundation (EG Pierco products). They make plastic-stamped, wax-covered snap in type foundation as well as all plastic one piece (frame and all) fully drawn comb. I have heard that it warps from some around here. I am wondering if any of you have had experience with it recently, and if so what it is. Thank you patient folks who long sufferingly impart much needed information to us woefully inexperienced newcomers to this noble hobby/vocation! Steve in Maryville, TN Prov 24:13, 25:16 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 30 Aug 1996 06:42:01 -1000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Wal;ter patton" Subject: Re: Honey jars, etc. Yea the tops with tapper proof seals. Honey Tree may have these lids by now or else yor friend will have to buy huge numbers of tops.at one time. Honey tree may be able to steer him to a top.or I can dig further and find the information. Let me know. Walter. PS he might also try GLORYBEE bee supplies as I used to get the same bottle from them . Walter & Elisabeth Patton, 27-703 A Ka' ie'ie Rd., Papaikou HI.,96781 Ph./Fax. 808-964-5401 E-Mail hihoney@ilhawaii Beekeeper and Bed & Breakfast Owner in Hawaii http://www.alohamall.com/hamakua/hihoney.htm http://www.alohamall.com/hamakua/beeware.htm http://www.alohamall.com/hamakua/lamalani.htm ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 30 Aug 1996 13:04:37 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jim Moore DTN276-9448 ogo1/e17 508-496-9448 Subject: Survey results (partial): Smoker and hive tool use I am finally posting part of the results of my query concerning "Survey of tools used when working hives" back in June. I hope to compile and post more when I get the time. The survey was answered by 51 individuals out of 429 recipients (~ 12% response rate). The totals may no match exactly due to ambiguous questions and answers. I have a deeper appreciation of the importance of clarity in survey questions given the types of responses. The totals don't match between smoker and hive tool, but it is close enough to get an impression. =============================================================== Smoker portion Number of hives managed: [ ] 1-5 [ ] 6-10 [ ] 11-50 [ ] 51-100 [ ] 101-500 [ ] 501-1000 [ ] more than 1000 [ ] smoker - always [ ] smoker - occasionally [ ] smoker - seldom [ ] smoker - never yielded: Hives always | occas. | seldom | never | Totals ------------------------------------------------------- 1-5 14 ** | 6 | 1 | | 21 6-10 6 | 3 | 2 | | 11 11-50 7 | | 1 | | 8 51-100 3 | 1 | | | 4 101-500 3 | | | | 3 501-1000 2 | | | | 2 >1000 2 | | | | 2 ---------------------------------------------- Totals 37 10 4 51 Notes: --------------------------------------------------------- **: One answered "usually". I placed it under always. This is a case of my question could have been better. Also one didn't indicate # of hive. I rec'd as 1-5. Some commented that they alway had there smoker lit, but only used it as needed. In particular, smoking a sting sight to cover the pheromone was mentioned. Smoking in the fall and at harvest more than during the rest of the season for inspections was indicated by some. ========================================================== Hive Tool portion Number of hives managed: [ ] 1-5 [ ] 6-10 [ ] 11-50 [ ] 51-100 [ ] 101-500 [ ] 501-1000 [ ] more than 1000 [ ] hive tool, old curved style [ ] hive tool, flat style yielded: Hives | flat | curved | both | Other | Total -------------------------------------------------------- 1-5 | 13 a | 6 | 2 | | 21 6-10 | 6 | 4 | | 1 b | 11 11-50 | 4 | 3 | | | 7 51-100 | 2 | 2 | | 1 c | 5 101-500 | 1 | 1 | 1 | | 3 501-1000 | 1 | | 1 d | | 2 >1000 | 1 e | | | | 1 ----------------------------------------------------- Totals 28 16 4 2 50 Notes: ------------------------------- a. no hive answer rec'd as 1-5 b. stiff putty knife mentioned c. Hive tool looks like wonder bar? d. 1 curved, 2 flat e. Hybrid tool made from curved with flat end ground down on one side to give frame lever (no hook). ============================================================== Thank you to those that responded. Jim Moore moore@aiag.enet.dec.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 30 Aug 1996 11:15:25 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Dirk Howard Organization: Helius, Inc. http://www.helius.com Subject: Re: Plastic Foundation Comments: cc: "Steven A. Creasy" Steven A. Creasy wrote: > I am looking for others' experience with plastic foundation (EG Pierco products). They make plastic-stamped, wax-covered snap in type foundation > as well as all plastic one piece (frame and all) fully drawn comb. I have heard that it warps from some around here. I am wondering if any of > you have had experience with it recently, and if so what it is. I am using Demadent foundation in wooden frames. I am very pleased with the performance and acceptability. I will not use wax foundation or the Duragilt foundation. If I ever try something else, it will be the one piece plastic frame with foundation. For what it is worth. -- Dirk W. Howard Beekeeper in Utah with 13 hives. mailto:dhoward@helius.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 30 Aug 1996 14:43:49 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: David Eyre Subject: Re: Drone Foundation Source & MORE OLd Drone wrote concerening Drone foundation. >colored, and you name it. It works great, but if you do not have >excluders you could end up rearing a lot more drones in the spring and >today this would translate to a lot more Varroa Mites as they are said >to prefer drone brood over worker. > >I can not tell you if this is so or not, but am sure that the varroa >mites DO prefer the drones that are reared between the supers in double >hives without excluders and suspect it is because it is warmer. I question this statement. Why? We know that Varroa prefer drone cells, but only because of the longer gestation, but does it mean they produce more offspring. Is there any proof to the validity of Andys statement? **************************************************** * David Eyre 9 Progress Drive, Unit 2, * * The Beeworks, Orillia, Ontario, L3V 6H1. * * beeworks@muskoka.net 705-326-7171 * * http://www.muskoka.net/~beeworks * * Agents for: E H Thorne & B J Sherriff UK. * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 30 Aug 1996 14:43:53 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: David Eyre Subject: Re: Drone Foundation Source of Supply? Eric Abell wrote >Just a suggestion but could you not take drawn comb and scrape it down to >the midrib. Most of this will be repaired as drone cells. Not necessarily correct, a lot depends on what the hive needs at the time. I ran out of full sized drone foundation so elected to use shallow drone wax attached just to the top of the frame, in the hope they would draw down and complete the frame in drone. Guess what? They drew the top in drone, but at the end of the foundation they changed to worker cells and finished the whole frame like that. The queen then ignored the drone cells but filled the worker cells with brood. As I have said before "They do not read the same books we do" **************************************************** * David Eyre 9 Progress Drive, Unit 2, * * The Beeworks, Orillia, Ontario, L3V 6H1. * * beeworks@muskoka.net 705-326-7171 * * http://www.muskoka.net/~beeworks * * Agents for: E H Thorne & B J Sherriff UK. * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 30 Aug 1996 14:43:57 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: David Eyre Subject: Re: Mouseguards >Franklin D. Humphrey Sr wrote >I use 1/2" hardware cloth bent so that it can be wedged in the entrance. >This keeps out the mice, allows ventilation and does not keep drones in An even better way, a permanent mouseguard mounted at the entrance year round. Even the slimest mouse will not get through these. E-mail us for more details. **************************************************** * David Eyre 9 Progress Drive, Unit 2, * * The Beeworks, Orillia, Ontario, L3V 6H1. * * beeworks@muskoka.net 705-326-7171 * * http://www.muskoka.net/~beeworks * * Agents for: E H Thorne & B J Sherriff UK. * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 30 Aug 1996 14:43:44 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ted Fischer Subject: Where are the yellow jacket REGARDING Where are the yellow jackets? Dave Green wrote a rather detailed post (8/30/96) about recognizing the German yellow jacket, which is usually an annoying pest around our honey houses this time of the year. I say "usually" because this year I haven't had a single one bothering me or my hives. I can't believe it! Last year, when I had a mite catastrophe in the making, not only was my honey house overridded with these insects (I had my "bug light" on continuously and had the scorched critters drop directly into a trash can underneath it), but they got into dying hives to hasten the demise of mite infested colonies which would no longer defend themselves. This year nothing at all. I even put my extracted supers into the apiary for the bees to clean out, and not even these has attracted a yellow jacket, to my knowledge. What is going on? Is this unique to my area (southeastern Michigan)? Not that I mind it, to be sure, but it really has gotten my curiosity up. I wonder if the varroa mite has invaded the yellow jackets. This is kind of far-fetched, but what could have happened to cause such a radical population crash, the likes of which I have never seen before? Maybe it was the harsh winter we had last year (but we have had such winters before). Any other yellow jacket experiences out there? Ted Fischer ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 30 Aug 1996 20:12:46 +0100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Allister C. Guy" Subject: Re: Wax and British Humour In-Reply-To: <3226071F.700A@tyrell.net> Have you seen this Web page???... WWW.slimeworld.org/honey/beebarf.html Best regards Allister C. Guy In message <3226071F.700A@tyrell.net>, "Victor M. Kroenke" writes >Joe Hemmens wrote: >> >> Well, I didn't mean to offend anybody. British humour obviously >> does not travel well, but to find honey described as 'bee-spit' begs >> an equally inappropriate response. I will be more serious in future. >> >> Actually, I love honey and the main reason I keep bees is so that my >> family can enjoy one of nature's great gifts, and I love bees too. >> >> Best wishes >> >> Joe Hemmens > >I have heard honey referred to as "bee barf" on a number of occasions. >This sounds better than bee spit or bee vomit. This always sounded like >an accurate analysis of the product. Think about where other foods come >from such as eggs, milk, meats, and fish. I like rabbit so long as I am >not the one to butcher the rabbit. -- Allister C. Guy ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 30 Aug 1996 15:17:28 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jim Moore Subject: Re: Drone Foundation Source & MORE >> I question this statement. Why? We know that Varroa prefer drone >> cells, but only because of the longer gestation, but does it mean >> they produce more offspring. >> Is there any proof to the validity of Andys statement? Dave, The following is a part of an fine article taken without permission from: The APIARY NEWS A Publication of the Worcester County Beekeepers Association http://www.nesc.org/~juggler/Summerap.html ... ... ... The Invasion of Varroa Jacobsoni by Philip Giroux ... ... ... Varroa are selective about which larva they are going to invade. They choose larva that will be capped within a day or two. The reason Varroa prefer this age larva is that when the mites drop into a cell, they get stuck in the brood food. Ironically, the larva condemns itself by eating its food and freeing this menace. Varroa's main choice is drone larva. Drone bee larva is bigger than worker bee larva, and requires a larger cell. The increased larva and cell size allows 7 eggs to be laid instead of 5 eggs. Furthermore, drones stay capped for 14 days; an extra two days longer than worker bees. After being freed, the mite feeds on the defenseless larva's blood. A hormone, found in the larval haemolymph, stimulates egg production in Varroa. Two days later the mite begins her egg laying cycle: a single egg about every 30 hours. It takes approximately 24 hours for an egg to hatch, and 7.5 days for the newborn to mature. In other words, a worker bee is capped for 12 days, subtract the 2 days it takes for the mite to begin laying her eggs, 1 day for it to hatch, and 7 days for it to mature, we end up with 2 days left. Knowing every 30 hours a new egg is being laid, we can say two more mites will mature before the worker bee comes out of its cell. If we add the two extra days the drones are capped, we have two additional mites maturing. Therefore, a worker bee produces 3 Varroa and a drone bee produces 5 Varroa. ... ... ... ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 30 Aug 1996 16:06:31 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Conrad Sigona Subject: Re: Multimedia Software (fwd) >> Does any one know of any multimedia software about bees and beekeepeing? >If you look at http://members.tripod.com/~DARGUK/sites.htm >you will find a link to download some beekeeping shareware designed >to run on a PC with a mouse. I have seen it briefly and thought that >it was extremely good. It won't teach the informed beekeeper much, >but for non beekeepers and children it is very suitable and easy to >use. The link is broken. It points to fto.kuai.se instead of ftp.kuai.se. Anyone interested in this program should type the site address in by hand (ftp://ftp.kuai.se/pub/beekeeping) and download the file honeybee.zip. Conrad Sigona conrad@ntcnet.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 30 Aug 1996 14:44:29 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Whitney S. Cranshaw" Subject: Fascinating Facts about bees A friend of mine works on a public television show involving science issues that is directed to kids. (Newton's Apple the show is called.) She called me today for advice on writing a small 25-word-or-less "fascinating fact" about honeybees. I proposed a few ideas such as the way/ways bees communicate, the number of flowers that they visit, weights of nectar loads, the effect of diet in determining development of queens/workers, etc. However, they still want other ideas - things that can be put across clearly and succinctly. My request to this group: What do you think are facts about honeybees that would be most fascinating to a kid between 8 and 15 years old? Whitney Cranshaw Colorado, USA wcransha@ceres.agsci.colostate.edu ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 30 Aug 1996 16:18:00 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Maleta, Donald M @ VFL" Subject: Big Foreign Yellow Jackets Ted Fischer wrote: Any other yellow jacket experiences out there? Well Ted, I am in southeast Pennsylvania, near Pottstown, and I have not seen one of those big annoying Yellows all season. Funny thing is like you said last year they were everywhere and I figured this year would be the bad with them because they were so plentiful. Can't figure what's going on. Count our blessings!!! Don..... dmaleta@aol.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 30 Aug 1996 16:02:06 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Daddyo Subject: Newbie Questions about Honeybees I am a newbie to honeybees, I have one hive so far. Please forgive me for such a dumb question. My question is this: I went out to the hive today to watch for a while and I noticed that there where some very large looking bees coming and going. They where a lot darker in color than the workers and about 4 or 5 millimeters longer and thicker, they also made a lot more noise when they flew. These guys where coming and going without any trouble. I know that they wheren't those black and white hornets, I have learned to tell the differance in them. I also know that there are some drones in the hive doing something to help out, but I thought they stayed indoors except when it was time to mate with the Queen. I have never seen these larger bees coming and going before. Could they be wild bees getting some free honey? I live in Arkansas in the middle of the Ozark Mountains. Thanks all, Marton ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 30 Aug 1996 14:26:17 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Lash Larue Subject: Re: Where are the yellow jacket Ted wonders about the ubiquitous yellowjacket... I even put my extracted supers into the apiary for >the bees to clean out, and not even these has attracted a yellow jacket, to my >knowledge. > >What is going on? Is this unique to my area (southeastern Michigan)? Not >that I mind it, to be sure, but it really has gotten my curiosity up. I >wonder if the varroa mite has invaded the yellow jackets. This is kind of >far-fetched, but what could have happened to cause such a radical population >crash, the likes of which I have never seen before? Maybe it was the harsh >winter we had last year (but we have had such winters before). > >Any other yellow jacket experiences out there? boulder... I don't know if what I'm seeing is the german yellowjacket but I'm sure seeing a LOT of a small black and yellow striped hornet(the picture suggested as a reference earlier today looks more black and white while mine just look like smaller, softer versions of our old standby, chitin-covered fat cheeky wasp which tends to nest high hereabouts[Vespula arenaria]---usually under eaves or suspended from high thicket vines). There is ONE black and white wasp I've seen a lot more of this year than ever before. Looks like Darth Vader bee and has accounted for the early demise of quite a number of my charges. I understand V.maculata does nest in the ground but I've been unable to find where they're coming from. I'm on the Pacific Northwest coast and anxious to let you know that OUR yellowjacket population still seems to be very viable. I've also seen more bumbles this year(large and small)than in any previous year. Nature abhors a vacuum and I assume the increase in other pollinators is an indication that the feral honeybee population has collapsed. ...Stuart Grant Pointr Roberts, WA ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "First things first, but not necessarily in that order" - Dr. Who ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 30 Aug 1996 16:35:28 -0500 Reply-To: "Marla S. Spivak" Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Marla S. Spivak" Subject: muliti-media For an excellent interactive CD-ROM software package with three great sections on honey bees, try: "What's the Secret" - 3M Learning Software, Based on Newton's Apple Science Show. Order from: 3M Software Media and CD-ROM Services; 3M Center, Building 223-5N-01; St. Paul, Minnesota 55144-1000, in either Mac or IBM versions. Marla Spivak Dept Entomology 219 Hodson Hall University of Minnesota St. Paul, MN 55108 (612) 624-4798 ph (612) 625-5299 FAX spiva001@maroon.tc.umn.edu ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 30 Aug 1996 16:50:20 -0600 Reply-To: allend@internode.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Allen Dick Organization: The Beekeepers Subject: Re: Big Foreign Yellow Jackets > Ted Fischer wrote: > Any other yellow jacket experiences out there? > > Well Ted, I am in southeast Pennsylvania, near Pottstown, and I have > not seen one of those big annoying Yellows all season. Funny thing > is like you said last year they were everywhere and I figured this > year would be the bad with them because they were so plentiful. > Can't figure what's going on. The funny thing about nature is how cycles come and go. One year the caterpillars eat every tree to the bare branches, the next year nary a worm is seen. In 1917, the flu, of all things, killed tens of thousands of people and the next, nada. The Black Death killed a third of Europe's population by some estimates, not too many centuries ago, but the same bacteria and the same carriers are still around today, and guess what? A few people are sticken annually, but no decimation occurs. For tens of thousands (maybe hundreds?) of years modern humans have been living in balance on the Earth, according to the latest studies, but the numbers have never before threatened the planetary balance or run into the billions. Even the parasites have parasites. From time to time things get out of balance; we see large numbers of some one species for a brief period. But then nature seems to find a way of keeping things in check, and populations return to manageable (sustainable) numbers. This last winter was an example of how bad things can get for bees. (Didn't seem to bother the bumbles, tho'.) My guess is that next will not be nearly as bad. Many will attribute that to how much better they prepared, but IM(H)O it is just the way things are. Regards Allen W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper VE6CFK RR#1, Swalwell, Alberta Canada T0M 1Y0 Internet:dicka@cuug.ab.ca & allend@internode.net Honey. Bees, & Art ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 30 Aug 1996 17:06:18 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Betty B Subject: Re: Fascinating Facts about bees At 02:44 PM 8/30/96 -0600, you wrote: >A friend of mine works on a public television show involving science issues >that is directed to kids. (Newton's Apple the show is called.) She called >me today for advice on writing a small 25-word-or-less "fascinating fact" >about honeybees. > >I proposed a few ideas such as the way/ways bees communicate, the number of >flowers that they visit, weights of nectar loads, the effect of diet in >determining development of queens/workers, etc. However, they still want >other ideas - things that can be put across clearly and succinctly. > >My request to this group: What do you think are facts about honeybees that >would be most fascinating to a kid between 8 and 15 years old? > >Whitney Cranshaw >Colorado, USA >wcransha@ceres.agsci.colostate.edu > What attracts honeybees to flowers? Can honeybees see color? How do they find their way home? Where does the queen come from? Why do the bees make more honey than they can use? What determines the color of the honey? Where does the hum come from when bees fly? Do they sleep at night? How can they see in their closed hives? Why don't they make their comb cells with five or seven sides? How does their stinger work? Why do beekeepers use smoke? My fingers are tired. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 29 Aug 1996 21:42:00 +0100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Gordon Scott Subject: Re: Just some thoughts In-Reply-To: <32256DFA@msgate.paoli.atm.lmco.com> On Thu, 29 Aug 1996, Maleta, Donald M @ VFL wrote: > The problem is almost 100% of the people I encounter can't tell the > difference between a bee and the other critters. And it's so easy -- the big fat ones are bees and the small stripy ones are wasps -- or is it the other way round? :-) Also, to paraphrase the old British 'Riot Act': "Three or more bees gathered together in one place shall constitute a swarm." More seriously, it's a real problem if you do an International Rescue job for hymenoptera. In the UK, I use a few clues that help most people rough-identify them quickly. Of course this may not work elsewhere, but I think it works in many places. The big fat fluffy one's are bumble bees. If the colours are soft yellow/orange/brown and/or black and they're fluffy, they're bees (honey or solitary). If the colours are bold yellows and blacks and they're _not_ fluffy, they're wasps (Or hover flies -- sigh!). Also, if they're bees, the legs are black; if they're wasps, the legs are yellow. In good light, I can tell a bee from a wasp at about 15 feet by looking at the colour of the 'halo'. My favourite 'secret' that I tell children (of _many_ ages) is that if you see that yellow 'halo' and it's May, it's a queen wasp -- Amaze your friends with your *incredible* eyesight. Not 100% perfect rules, but usually more than good enough. The usual "where are they; what are they doing?" questions can sort out most of the rest of the details. Regards, Gordon. -- Gordon Scott gordon@apis.demon.co.uk gordon@multitone.co.uk (work) The Basingstoke Beekeeper (newsletter) beekeeper@apis.demon.co.uk Embryo Home Page Beekeeper; Kendo 3rd Dan; Sometime sailor. Hampshire, England. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 30 Aug 1996 19:28:22 -0500 Reply-To: bbirkey@interaccess.com Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Barry Birkey Organization: Birkey Construction Subject: Re: Where are the yellow jacket Ted Fischer wrote: > > What is going on? Is this unique to my area (southeastern Michigan)? Not > that I mind it, to be sure, but it really has gotten my curiosity up. I > wonder if the varroa mite has invaded the yellow jackets. This is kind of > far-fetched, but what could have happened to cause such a radical population > crash, the likes of which I have never seen before? Maybe it was the harsh > winter we had last year (but we have had such winters before). > > Any other yellow jacket experiences out there? > > Ted Fischer Ted - It's not unique to your area as the exact situation is here in N.E. Illinois. I've seen a total of about five yellow jackets this year. Normally I'll have to kill a hive or two in the yard so the kids don't get stung up. Can't tell you why, just that it is so. -Barry -- Barry Birkey West Chicago, Illinios USA bbirkey@interaccess.com http://www.birkey.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 30 Aug 1996 20:07:48 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Deanna Mitchell Subject: Possible honey purchase I have a friend who is a commercial beekeeper. He needs to purchase about 70 barrels of honey and will pay C.O.D. We live in southeast Kansas and had a few problems with cooperation from our weather department where honey production is concerned. Does anyone know of a marketplace for honey on the internet, or does anyone have any honey for sale? Please reply via e-mail to my address below. Thanks Steve Mitchell dteach@horizon.hit.net ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 30 Aug 1996 21:54:33 +0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: George_Willy Subject: possible multimedia info Comments: cc: Chris Allen Chris: You might try International bee reserch information @ ibra@cardiff.ac.uk. or BK-Economics @ HTTP://GEARS.TUCSON.ARS.AG.GOV/. If they can't help they probably know someone that can. I would also be interested in anything you find out. George, in the beautiful Northeast Kingdom of Vermont,USA ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 31 Aug 1996 02:57:00 GMT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Andy Nachbaur Organization: WILD BEE'S BBS (209) 826-8107 LOS BANOS, CA Subject: SQUEEZE YOR HONEY? ___ ___ ___ ___ ___ ___ ___ ___ ___/ \___/ \___/ \___/ \___/ \___/ \___/ \___/ \___ / \___/ \___/ \___/ \___/ \___/ \___/ \___/ \___/ \ \___/ \___/ \___/ \___/ \___/ \___/ \___/ \___/ \___/ / \___/ l l l l \___/ \ \___/ l l___/___\___l l The OLd Drone say's! \___/ / \ l l ///|\/\///\ l l / \ \___/ l l ///|||/|\\\/|\\ l l Sue Bee Honey CoOp is in \___/ / \ ///||\/|/\\|\\\\\ the process of building a nice / \ \___/ l l /|//\\/\\/|/|\\\\ l l public web page at: \___/ / \ //\|/// | \\/\\\ http://www.suebee.com / \ \___/ /| |\ l l It is a work in progress but \___/ / \ | (O) (O) | you must try the HONEY POST / \ \___/ || l l || l l CARD, it's SUPER!! \___/ / \ | / \ | / \ \___/ l l | ((_)) | http://www.suebee.com/postcard \___/ / \ | | / \ \___/ l l | ------- | l l ___ ___ ___ ___ \___/ / \___ l l | | l l / \___/ \___/ \___/ \___/ \ \___/ \___ '-------' ___ \___/ \___/ \___/ \___/ \___/ \___/ \___/ \___/ \___/ \___/ \___/ \___/ \___/ Yes this page is not finished, but you all will enjoy the SQUEEZE YOUR HONEY postcard feature, it works and it's FREE!. All you need is the e-mail address of someone special you would like to send a postcard and you know they can surf the net as the postcard is sent to another web site to be read on line as it contains graphics. Try it, you might like it! And connect your very own personal page to the SUE BEE HONEY page and all your internet friends will LOVE U HONEY! This is one connection that will get you lots of good comments and help to promote all Honey, yours and mine!! ttul OLd Drone Honree Sue Member <830> --- ~ QMPro 1.53 ~ HTTP://SUEBEE.COM/POSTOFFICE/ --- ~ QMPro 1.53 ~ HTTP://SUEBEE.COM/POSTOFFICE/ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 30 Aug 1996 23:56:20 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: James Russo <74134.1450@CompuServe.COM> Subject: Re: Facinating Facts about Bees A facinating fact for 8 to 15 year old kids: A colony of bees, no matter what size, cannot survive without a mother (queen ... Jim ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 31 Aug 1996 00:27:50 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Dave Green, Eastern Pollinator Newsletter" Subject: Re: Fascinating Facts about bees Comments: To: wcransha@ceres.agsci.colostate.edu In a message dated 96-08-30 16:49:18 EDT, you write: << A friend of mine works on a public television show involving science issues that is directed to kids. (Newton's Apple the show is called.) She called me today for advice on writing a small 25-word-or-less "fascinating fact" about honeybees. I proposed a few ideas such as the way/ways bees communicate, the number of flowers that they visit, weights of nectar loads, the effect of diet in determining development of queens/workers, etc. However, they still want other ideas - things that can be put across clearly and succinctly. My request to this group: What do you think are facts about honeybees that would be most fascinating to a kid between 8 and 15 years old? >> We get the kids to count the seeds in the apples to see how well they are pollinated. Generally - less than 3 seeds -- never make it to market, 4-5 seeds, small, starchy and often lopsided, 6-10 increasing size and flavor. Many folks think the bee visits the flower, and the fruit forms. But the bee must visit the flower repeatedly, until there are enough grains of pollen, evenly distributed on the stigma, to get most of the seeds pollinated. We've also done comparisons with watermelons, rating the taste of ones with 50% white seeds, 25% white seeds, and 10% white seeds. They'll go for the taste of the well-pollinated melons, all other things being equal. A melon with 50% white (unpollinated) seeds will never fully ripen. Kids seem to enjoy this. Of course spitting the seeds is part of the fun, too. Cuke pollination can also be observed by the shape of the fruit. Areas that did not get the seeds pollinated do not develop. A bee's lifespan is mosly determined by its wings, which are good for about 500 miles. In the summer, it may only live three weeks, once it starts flying. In the winter, it won't fly much, and could live four months. The sugar in honey is the energy of stored sunshine, made into sugar by plants. It is the basic food of almost all life on earth. It provides our bodies with energy. It also powers the mighty wing muscles of the bee, and heats the hive during the winter. A bee burns her own weight in sugar in about 2 1/2 hours of steady flying. Why do bees hum? They don't know the words. Come by the web page for more ideas. My wife is working on pollination stuff just for kids and teachers. The pics are not in yet, but the text is near the final version. Pollinator@aol.com Dave Green, PO Box 1200, Hemingway, SC 29554 Practical Pollination Home Page Dave & Janice Green http://users.aol.com/pollinator/polpage1.html ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 30 Aug 1996 23:27:55 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Michael Moroney Subject: Re: Drone Foundation Source of Supply? > I have been looking for a source for Drone sized foundation. > Does anyone know who handles it, it price, and such? Related question: I read somewhere (perhaps this list) of foundation that was intermediate in size between worker and drone cell size. The idea was use this in supers and skip the queen excluder. If the queen wandered up there she wouldn't lay eggs in it since it was the wrong size for either workers or drones. But it would be fine for honey. You could therefore run a hive without a queen excluder without worrying about getting brood in the supers. Questions: Does this work? If so does anyone actually make this? -Mike ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 31 Aug 1996 01:59:07 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Cecile T. Kohrs" Subject: Re: Fascinating Facts about bees How about my favorites: How do bees make honey? And How do they make wax? No, honey isn't bee spit. I have learned that. :-) BY THE WAY< FOLKS!!! Martha Stewart is doing her best to popularize bees. Her logo, which you will see stamped on the next item you order from her extensive life-enhancing collection of this you could spend your money on, includes a tiny hive and a large bee! Also, a bee at work is part of the lead-in to her show. (I am NOT a fan. I was channel surfing!) AND: As a sewing nut and knitter, I'd like you all to know that honey combs have been popular sources of inspiration for designers, with a few honey comb-like items included in the Metropolitan Museum of Art's Haute Couture collection. AND: If anyone has a source for antique bee buttons, let me know. I know where you can get lovely modern porcelain bee and hive buttons... Cecile ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 31 Aug 1996 01:59:21 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Cecile T. Kohrs" Subject: Re: Wax and British Humour Dear Allister: I tried looking up the answer to my questions about bee biology before finding this list, and I found that other web page. I really thought I was being polite calling it bee spit, not bee barf. I did find some people had a sense of humour, though. And I've got all the Americans writing "humour" not humor. We Americans don't need U to laugh! My. Hasn't it been a fun, educational week? Cecile ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 31 Aug 1996 04:14:17 PST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Steven A. Creasy" Subject: Re: Fascinating Facts about bees All honeybees you seez polinating flowers are girls. Boy bees only mate (just how old ARE these kids?!?) and eat. Boys have big eyes, girls have small eyes. The workers (girls) have different jobs throughout their lives...starting with housekeeping. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 31 Aug 1996 09:45:15 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Jim G. Shoemaker" Subject: Re: Drone Foundation Source of Supply? In-Reply-To: <7E7JykOJGvxd084yn@world.std.com> Hello Mike: Walter Kelley Company sells the foundation you described. They call it 7-11 I believe. I use it for comb honey production and the queen seldom lays in it. Notice that I didn't say never. Jim Shoemaker Brookline, MO (near Springfield and Bass Pro Shop) ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 31 Aug 1996 12:30:46 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Joel Govostes Subject: Re: Where are the yellow jacket >Ted wonders about the ubiquitous yellowjacket... > I even put my extracted supers into the apiary for >>the bees to clean out, and not even these has attracted a yellow jacket, to my >>knowledge. >> >>What is going on? Here in central NY, I am also surprised at the lack of yellow jackets for this time of year. Last summer by now they were getting pesty, and I knew of at least four thriving colonies within our meager 1.3 acres (one aerial in a hemlock, one in the eave of my house, one in a bluebird box, and one ground-nesting, plus one in my garage which I terminated early on); there could well have been more. The bald-faced "hornets" were also extremely prominent, especially when there were sticky pails or honey implements outside. This summer - hardly any. A new (germanica) queen did start a nest again in my eave back in spring, but the colony never materialized. Nor am I seeing the large quantities of foragers lurking around. Maybe the bad winter limited the survival of queens. (It sure would be interesting if some mites were found to be involved.) I'm not complaining -- it's nice to be able to have a cookout without the unwanted guests. Interesting to note, tho'... ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 31 Aug 1996 21:11:00 GMT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Andy Nachbaur Organization: WILD BEE'S BBS (209) 826-8107 LOS BANOS, CA Subject: Sue Bee SQUEEZE YOR HONEY ---------------------------------------- Subject: SQUEEZE YOR HONEY? ____________________________________________________________________ | From: Andy.Nachbaur@beenet.com |~~~~~~~~~|| | Wild Bee's BBS - Los Banos, CA | IN Post || | | $____ || | _ _ |_________|| | (_`,_' ) ~~~~~~~~~ | | ) `\ | | / '. | That OLd Drone does not know one hive | | | `, from another, or the SUE BEE POSTCARD | | \,_ `-/ has changed it's address. Try: | | ,&&&&&V for the postcard program | | ,&&&&&&&&: http://www.suebee.com/postcards/index.html | | ,&&&&&&&&&&; or for the Sue Bee Page | | | |&&&&&&&|\ http://suebee.com | | | | |_)_ | | | | ;_/ | ttul Andy- | | '--' `,.--. | | | \_ | |--' (c) * Crash Mail * | |______`-._\__/_____Major____________________________________________| ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ --- ~ QMPro 1.53 ~ HTTP://SUEBEE.COM ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 31 Aug 1996 22:42:55 GMT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Brixington Apiary Subject: Re: Multimedia Software Hi.... Sorry about that, The Page has been updated and now points to ftp://ftp.kuai.se/pub/beekeeping... :-| On Fri, 30 Aug 1996 16:06:31 -0500 Conrad Sigona wrote: >>> Does any one know of any multimedia software about bees and beekeepeing? > >>If you look at http://members.tripod.com/~DARGUK/sites.htm >>you will find a link to download some beekeeping shareware designed >>to run on a PC with a mouse. I have seen it briefly and thought that >>it was extremely good. It won't teach the informed beekeeper much, >>but for non beekeepers and children it is very suitable and easy to >>use. > >The link is broken. It points to fto.kuai.se instead of ftp.kuai.se. >Anyone interested in this program should type the site address in by >hand (ftp://ftp.kuai.se/pub/beekeeping) and download the file honeybee.zip. > >Conrad Sigona >conrad@ntcnet.com > ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 31 Aug 1996 20:46:45 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Tom Allen Subject: Re: Extracted supers - now what? Last winter for various reasons I left one super on my hive with incompletely filled cells, although partially capped. This was the one hive that successfully wintered over. The bees did not eat a whole lot of it. But is was there and they filled it out by June.Thus I had a frame of partial old and partial new honey. I am using it for my personal honey as I did not want to market the product. It must be OK because I am still alive. I have been advised not to feed extracted honey,but there seems to be a lot of controversy about doing that. The extracted supers I wraped carefully in poly bags and put in some moth ball type of stuff from the bee association. I can not remember the name but it is definitely not the same as commercial moth balls. Check with your local bee association. Oh now it come to me Paradiclorobenzine. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 31 Aug 1996 23:49:01 -0300 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Stan Sandler Subject: Re: Fascinating Facts about bees I believe that kids like mystery, so how about a fact that is still half mystery: Bees use their bodies to manufacture very tiny crystals of magnetite which they can use as compasses to tell direction on days when they can't see the sun (and when the cloud cover is so dense that they can't even tell where the sun is from the polarization of light--but this might be much for that age group). Nobody knows yet how the bees are able to sense which way the extremely small "magnets" are pointing. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 31 Aug 1996 20:33:44 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: ddlyon Subject: Re: Multimedia Software Brixington Apiary wrote: > > Hi.... > > Sorry about that, The Page has been updated and now points to > ftp://ftp.kuai.se/pub/beekeeping.. :-| > > On Fri, 30 Aug 1996 16:06:31 -0500 Conrad Sigona wrote: > >>> Does any one know of any multimedia software about bees and beekeepeing? > > > >>If you look at http://members.tripod.com/~DARGUK/sites.htm > >>you will find a link to download some beekeeping shareware designed > >>to run on a PC with a mouse. I have seen it briefly and thought that > >>it was extremely good. It won't teach the informed beekeeper much, > >>but for non beekeepers and children it is very suitable and easy to > >>use. > > > >The link is broken. It points to fto.kuai.se instead of ftp.kuai.se. > >Anyone interested in this program should type the site address in by > >hand (ftp://ftp.kuai.se/pub/beekeeping) and download the file honeybee.zip. > > > >Conrad Sigona > >conrad@ntcnet.com > > Helo bi golly, Does'nt any won out dere it bee lund, kno vere ve can download dis program except from sveden, bi jimminy it takes ofer 4hr to download dis program, any suugeestions out dere fvrom cyber space, ya? ddlyon -- End --