Received: from [169.226.1.21] by relay.internode.net (SMTPD32-3.02) id AED2163A0052; Tue, 12 Nov 1996 23:46:42 -0700 Received: from CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU by CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU (IBM VM SMTP V2R2) with BSMTP id 1773; Wed, 13 Nov 96 01:50:19 EST Received: from CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU (NJE origin LISTSERV@ALBNYVM1) by CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU (LMail V1.2c/1.8c) with BSMTP id 9670; Wed, 13 Nov 1996 01:46:45 -0500 Date: Wed, 13 Nov 1996 01:46:40 -0500 From: "L-Soft list server at ALBNYVM1 (1.8b)" Subject: File: "BEE-L LOG9609A" To: "W. Allen Dick" X-UIDL: 478 Status: U ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 1 Sep 1996 00:15:34 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: David Alcantar Subject: Re: Drone Foundation Source of Supply? Hi Dave, Please info me on details about drone foundation...I live in Tuc az It wouls be a small sale as I would like to try this idea out first.. Thank You ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 1 Sep 1996 00:16:24 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Tom Allen Subject: Re: Hive stands,reply RE plans for the the observation hive in Winchendon.I wil;l telephone him and see if he would shre the info. Call you later,Suggest that you send me your snail mail address. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 1 Sep 1996 00:16:28 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Tom Allen Subject: Re: Steam to disinfect equipment Here in the Worcester County(MA)Beekepers we have an irradiation faccility availbale. As a group we gather up our equipment , box them in a special size carton,load up a truck and take the whole load to the chamber.Those who have used it , speak favorably of their experience. Any one within reach of us get in touch.For those out of our area we possibly can develop a list of the types of companies that might help you. Usew my address for starters. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 1 Sep 1996 00:16:34 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Tom Allen Subject: Re: bee tight suits I have what started out to be a tight bee jacket. But I goofed. It arrived without washing instructions from England. Unfortuneately I put it in a electric dryer. Don't make my mistake. The veil became embrittled and crackedso thatthe bees could get into my face. I replaced the veil with appropriate material but notbeing a tailor or skilledwith sewing. some of the veil was too close to my face. My bees landed me some pretty mean bites. Then I used a breathable polyester lab suit and found that the bees coould jab through it any my blue jeans. If you order a bee-proof suit make sure that the distributor stands behind the product. Sting proof, washable, and has washing instructions. Well this may sound awful but I really don,t mind most of the stings, in fact they may be good for me. REad about apitherapy and perhaps we would go out naked . Any how smile and shop carefully. If you have allergies now, protect your self with a Epipen prescribled by your physician. ( yes that's what I mean,prescribled. By the way honey consumption seems to minimize my allergies Be happy ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 1 Sep 1996 00:16:38 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Tom Allen Subject: Re: T-Mites & Behavior Changes ?? I too have mean nasty bees this year, after a winter of much varroa. In the spring my new colonies were esy to handle,now they are vrey aggravaed.Yet we have lookedfor varroa and have found none recently ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 1 Sep 1996 07:01:44 -0600 Reply-To: allend@internode.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Allen Dick Organization: The Beekeepers Subject: Re: Smoking Mean Bees > thank you for the letter regarding smoking a nd mean bees. I have > been upset with two of my three hives for they are very excitable. I > am usually well clothed and still get a few stings through my > clothes at some undesirable point.(smart little devils) My bee hives > are downhill from my approach through pine woods. At a distance of > about fifteen feet their guards intercept me, and gradually their > army respond even before I open the hives. Usually I am carrying a > smoker using a combination of white pine needles and dried grasss > mowings. What might I be doing that would develop such strong > protective habits ?? Thanks for the reply and the kind words. I'm sending my reply to the list, since it is a topic of perennial interst, and maybe I've forgotten one or two reasons. Hope that maybe we can hit on the reason for your bes being unusually hot. Well, there are many reasons bees can become mean: * Genetics -- AHB stock or such takes over a hive * Shade -- too cool a location * Predators -- ants and or skunks (wasps too) will make bees defensive * Dearth -- If the bees are starving, or they have no work, they will become much harder to work * Robbing -- if the hive is under assault from other hives, they can be *very* hostile * Chemical pollution -- reports are that bees sprayed or near pesticide and or herbicide applications can be vicious * nectar source -- bees working buckwheat are reputed to be very hot. The reason is apparently that the flowers only yield nectar for a short period during the day * Smoking technique or fuel -- too hot a smoke will inflame your bees. Burlap (hessian) is the world's most popular fuel, according to what I read on this group. Reasons are: universal availability, ease of lighting, dense, & long lasting smoke. Can anyone add to this? Regards Allen W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper VE6CFK RR#1, Swalwell, Alberta Canada T0M 1Y0 Internet:dicka@cuug.ab.ca & allend@internode.net Honey. Bees, & Art ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 1 Sep 1996 15:41:50 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Frederick L. Hollen" Subject: Re: Where are the yellow jacket In-Reply-To: ; from "Joel Govostes" at Aug 31, 96 12:30 pm Hello All, Here in Augusta County in the western part of Virginia there seems to be no shortage of yellow jackets. They've been trying to get into my extracting room all week, in large numbers. A flyswatter takes care of the few which do get in, so no real problem. Also have a few bald-faced hornets and paper wasps in on the act. If any of you on the list feel deprived of yellow jackets, come see me and you will be welcome to all you can catch. Regards, Fred According to Joel Govostes: > > >Ted wonders about the ubiquitous yellowjacket... > > I even put my extracted supers into the apiary for > >>the bees to clean out, and not even these has attracted a yellow jacket, to my > >>knowledge. > >> > >>What is going on? > > Here in central NY, I am also surprised at the lack of yellow jackets for > this time of year. Last summer by now they were getting pesty, and I knew > of at least four thriving colonies within our meager 1.3 acres (one aerial > in a hemlock, one in the eave of my house, one in a bluebird box, and one > ground-nesting, plus one in my garage which I terminated early on); there > could well have been more. The bald-faced "hornets" were also extremely > prominent, especially when there were sticky pails or honey implements > outside. > > This summer - hardly any. A new (germanica) queen did start a nest again > in my eave back in spring, but the colony never materialized. Nor am I > seeing the large quantities of foragers lurking around. Maybe the bad > winter limited the survival of queens. (It sure would be interesting if > some mites were found to be involved.) I'm not complaining -- it's nice to > be able to have a cookout without the unwanted guests. Interesting to > note, tho'... > ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 1 Sep 1996 14:06:49 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Doug McCulloch Subject: Re: Newbie Questions about Honeybees I would say that what you are seeing Marton are drones that have been removed from the hive in preparation for winter. They will continue to buzz around and maybe to alight and walk in but that will probably be the extent of their ability to rejoin the hive. Their fate is sealed as their presence in the hive is no longer needed for this year. Best wishes Doug McCulloch I am a newbie to honeybees, I have one hive so far. Please forgive me for >such a dumb question. > >My question is this: I went out to the hive today to watch for a while and >I noticed that there where some very large looking bees coming and going. >They where a lot darker in color than the workers and about 4 or 5 >millimeters longer and thicker, they also made a lot more noise when they >flew. These guys where coming and going without any trouble. I know that >they wheren't those black and white hornets, I have learned to tell the >differance in them. I also know that there are some drones in the hive >doing something to help out, but I thought they stayed indoors except when >it was time to mate with the Queen. I have never seen these larger bees >coming and going before. Could they be wild bees getting some free honey? I >live in Arkansas in the middle of the Ozark Mountains. > >Thanks all, > >Marton > > ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 1 Sep 1996 16:33:35 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Dave Green, Eastern Pollinator Newsletter" Subject: Re: Smoking Mean Bees Comments: To: allend@internode.net In a message dated 96-09-01 09:06:13 EDT, you write: << I'm sending my reply to the list, since it is a topic of perennial interst, and maybe I've forgotten one or two reasons. Hope that maybe we can hit on the reason for your bes being unusually hot. Well, there are many reasons bees can become mean: * Genetics -- AHB stock or such takes over a hive * Shade -- too cool a location * Predators -- ants and or skunks (wasps too) will make bees defensive * Dearth -- If the bees are starving, or they have no work, they will become much harder to work * Robbing -- if the hive is under assault from other hives, they can be *very* hostile * Chemical pollution -- reports are that bees sprayed or near pesticide and or herbicide applications can be vicious * nectar source -- bees working buckwheat are reputed to be very hot. The reason is apparently that the flowers only yield nectar for a short period during the day * Smoking technique or fuel -- too hot a smoke will inflame your bees. Burlap (hessian) is the world's most popular fuel, according to what I read on this group. Reasons are: universal availability, ease of lighting, dense, & long lasting smoke. Can anyone add to this? >> Good post Allen. Sounds like the start of a good FAQ sheet. Three more that immediately come to mind: * Approaching dusk or thunderstorm, not only makes bees want to sting, but the stings seem a lot "hotter." I also think they can hear thunder before we do. *Population imbalance, with mostly old bees due to weak or failed queen, or honeybound hive with a shut-down queen. *Crowded hives. If bees hang out on a really hot day, or after a good day's nectar flow, that's not unusual. But bees that hang out all the time don't have enough room, and they can be very sassy. Some queens build huge populations, and extra supers are needed just to fit in the bees. On genetics: the old German black bee, which was kept in this area from colonial times, and survived in the wild around here until the 80's could be a very mean bee. Mosquito spraying, heavy logging, and tracheal mites eliminated most, though there are still a few around. Pollinator@aol.com Dave Green, PO Box 1200, Hemingway, SC 29554 Practical Pollination Home Page Dave & Janice Green http://users.aol.com/pollinator/polpage1.html ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 1 Sep 1996 20:40:09 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Doug Henry Subject: Re: Where are the yellow jacket In-Reply-To: I have noticed the absence of yellow jackets here in Manitoba this year as well. In addition field mice which were very abundant have also disappeared. I attribute this to the very severe winter we had last year. Regards, Doug Henry, Lockport, Manitoba. On Fri, 30 Aug 1996, Ted Fischer wrote: > REGARDING Where are the yellow jackets? > > Dave Green wrote a rather detailed post (8/30/96) about recognizing the German > yellow jacket, which is usually an annoying pest around our honey houses this > time of the year. > > I say "usually" because this year I haven't had a single one bothering me or > my hives. I can't believe it! Last year, when I had a mite catastrophe in > the making, not only was my honey house overridded with these insects (I had > my "bug light" on continuously and had the scorched critters drop directly > into a trash can underneath it), but they got into dying hives to hasten the > demise of mite infested colonies which would no longer defend themselves. > This year nothing at all. I even put my extracted supers into the apiary for > the bees to clean out, and not even these has attracted a yellow jacket, to my > knowledge. > > What is going on? Is this unique to my area (southeastern Michigan)? Not > that I mind it, to be sure, but it really has gotten my curiosity up. I > wonder if the varroa mite has invaded the yellow jackets. This is kind of > far-fetched, but what could have happened to cause such a radical population > crash, the likes of which I have never seen before? Maybe it was the harsh > winter we had last year (but we have had such winters before). > > Any other yellow jacket experiences out there? > > Ted Fischer > ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 1 Sep 1996 19:39:19 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ann Dougherty Subject: Wormy Honey In-Reply-To: A rather unpleasant thought I've been contemplating....What does one do when wax worms are extracted with the honey? Just filter them out or bottle each worm in jar of honey like the mezcal I used to buy in Mexico? Ann ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Sep 1996 00:33:34 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Garey B. Spradley" Subject: Re: Duragilt / plastic based foundation I for one am intrigued about your accomplishment of 200 hives in one year of beekeeping. This is my first year too, only I have 2 hives, one from a 3# package, and one from a hollow tree discovered by a friend. How on earth did you get started with so many, and how are you keeping up with them? Question #2 - I am assembling my first foundation and frames and am overwhelmed with its complexity. The all in one plastic stuff (pierco) looks awful good, but I've read that some people/bees have problems with it (outgassing turning off the bees?), and my catalogues don't show it in the shallow frame size. (Back problems make the shallow frames more maneuverable) What is your experience? Judy in PA ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Sep 1996 05:09:25 GMT Reply-To: mjensen@crl.com Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Mark Jensen Organization: No Junk Mail Subject: Re: T-Mites & Behavior Changes ?? In-Reply-To: <960901001638_274278052@emout07.mail.aol.com> On Sun, 1 Sep 1996 00:16:38 -0400, you wrote: >I too have mean nasty bees this year, after a winter of much varroa. In the >spring my new colonies were esy to handle,now they are vrey aggravaed.Yet we >have lookedfor >varroa and have found none recently The two things that I have found that make the bees nasty are skunk predation at night and T-mites. -- Mark Jensen Double J Apiaries mjensen@crl.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Sep 1996 03:33:44 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Brian Gant <106213.3313@compuserve.com> Subject: Br. Adam Peter Donovan, who worked closely with Br Adam at Buckfast Abbey, has asked me to pass on the message that Br Adam died on September 1, aged 98. Brian Gant ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 1 Sep 1996 22:02:45 -1000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Bob St. John" Subject: Re: Smoking Mean Bees The approaching thunderstorm would be forecast by the barometeer. It is the pressure change that the bees sense. They are also bad when it is humid here in Hawaii. Good in the morning but bad as noon approaches. The best time seems to be sunup.It is probably tied to the presence of old bees, also since the less honey flow the worse they are. And then they are also worse in colder temperatures in general. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Sep 1996 10:56:04 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Robert Stevens Subject: Re: Drone Foundation Source of Supply? Betterbee sells it - 1-800-632-3379 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Sep 1996 11:26:11 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Robert Stevens Subject: Re: Formic acid Formic Acid is being used extensively in Canada where it is now legal. It has been used for several years in the U.S. illegally. Approval has been applied for by Mann Lake Supply. Liquid Formic is available from many chemical companies in the U. S. in 55 gallon drums for about $5.00 per gallon. The Canadians are using pads soaked in a 60% solution of formic and placed on the top bars. As I understand it, three treatments 6 days a part are required for tracheal mite and 6 treatments 6 days apart for Varroa. In my opinion, the this makes it cost prohibitive for a commercial beekeeper with a lot of out yards. The savings in material costs will be eaten up by labor and transportation costs. That is why I like the Nassenhof dispenser developed in Germany and available in the U.S. from Betterbee. It wicks the formic right in the center of the brood cluster and will last three weeks. It has been extensively tested in Germany but needs to be extensively tested in this country also to see how it works in the various weather conditions that exist in our country. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Sep 1996 17:48:10 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: David Eyre Subject: Re: Where are the yellow jacket > REGARDING Where are the yellow jackets? >What is going on? Is this unique to my area (southeastern Michigan)? Not >that I mind it, to be sure, but it really has gotten my curiosity up. I >wonder if the varroa mite has invaded the yellow jackets. This is kind of >far-fetched, but what could have happened to cause such a radical population >crash, the likes of which I have never seen before? Maybe it was the harsh >winter we had last year (but we have had such winters before). I don't believe it was the winter. We are on a level with you as regards winter, but we still have the same level of yellow jackets this year. I take them out as a service, and the requests have not dropped. The only difference, our area does not have any mites......yet. **************************************************** * David Eyre 9 Progress Drive, Unit 2, * * The Beeworks, Orillia, Ontario, L3V 6H1. * * beeworks@muskoka.net 705-326-7171 * * http://www.muskoka.net/~beeworks * * Agents for: E H Thorne & B J Sherriff UK. * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Sep 1996 17:51:56 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ian Watson Subject: Re: Br. Adam In-Reply-To: <199609020333_MC1-947-D232@compuserve.com> On Mon, 2 Sep 1996, Brian Gant wrote: > Peter Donovan, who worked closely with Br Adam at Buckfast Abbey, has asked > me to pass on the message that Br Adam died on September 1, aged 98. > Brian Gant Having read the above post about Br Adam, I just thought I would write about my experience with his wonderful bees as a way of tribute. I purchased, this spring, a 5 frame nuc from Paul Montox down in Hagarsville, Ontario after observing several Buckfast colonies owned by a fellow Bee-Liner, and member of our Niagara Peninsula Beekeepers Association, Stoddard Jones. Having seen how gentle they were with Stoddard, my brother and I both decided to buy a colony. Simply put, they are a joy to own and work.....I typically go out to check them and wear only a pair of short pants and a tee shirt...no veil even!.. A little smoke and I can do almost anything with them....I notice a distinct difference in their attitude from my other "Italian" bees. With Italian's, I always wear the complete outfit, as I am new to beekeeping and haven't got up the nerve to wear just the veil. But with the Buckfasts, its entirely different. I have only had a very rare guard bee buzz me a few times and that was on a cloudy day after much working. They are truly unbelievable!....Also, the queen lays like crazy...In a matter of weeks, i had to add another brood box, and my brother has 2 supers of honey already....my bees are in a not-so-good place. I have since made another 4-frame nuc, and that one is in my backyard, also with a second brood box....( I wrote into this list awhile ago about the problems of emergency queens...I found her..and she is a little small, but otherwise, she looks quite good..:) Another thing about their behavior; when you open up a regular, Italian hive, at least mine, the workers "Look" at you....but when I open up my Buckfasts, its as if they "couldn't care less"....its like I'm not even there...:) Anyways, thats all...Im saddened by the news of Br Adam's death, but thankful for his long life and his significant contribution to Beekeeping. Rest in peace, Br Adam... Ian Watson iwatson@freenet.npiec.on.ca ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Sep 1996 18:57:05 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ian Watson Subject: Re: Wax and British Humour In-Reply-To: <199608300443.VAA03530@m1.sprynet.com> On Thu, 29 Aug 1996, Betty B wrote: > At 10:03 PM 8/29/96 -0400, you wrote: > >On Thu, 29 Aug 1996, Betty B wrote: > > > >> This brings up another question: > >> > >> If bepuke is honey, pollen is pollen, just what is beeshit? > >> > >> Betty B > >Okay Betty....give the guy a break, eh?..;) > > I'm serious. It has to go somewhere, and I am sure that the bees don't have > an outhouse. What is it called and where is it stored? Hmmmm..... Ok...I was away for the weekend, but I didn't check if anyone answered ... I don't know what it's called, but they can store it inside them for long periods during the winter untill its warm enough outside to go on whats euphemistically called "cleansing flights". If you or your neighbours ever found yellow stains on your clothes on the clothes-line, then you will have seen "bee-shit". They normally excrete after they take off from the hive. Someone else might know the name of "it" and the organ where it's stored... Cheers! Ian Watson iwatson@freenet.npiec.on.ca ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Sep 1996 17:18:48 -0600 Reply-To: allend@internode.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Allen Dick Organization: The Beekeepers Subject: Re: Formic acid Comments: To: Robert Stevens > Formic Acid is being used extensively in Canada where it is now > legal > That is why I > like the Nassenhof dispenser developed in Germany and available in > the U.S. from Betterbee. It wicks the formic right in the center of > the brood cluster and will last three weeks. It has been extensively > tested in Germany but needs to be extensively tested in this country One test to ponder is the effect on honey production. Some studies have apparently shown slow release methods to have a significant negative effect on honey production compared to quick release ones. Both had similar effetcs on mite levels. FWIW. Regards Allen W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper VE6CFK RR#1, Swalwell, Alberta Canada T0M 1Y0 Internet:dicka@cuug.ab.ca & allend@internode.net Honey. Bees, & Art ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 30 Aug 1996 14:25:08 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Teri Rhan Subject: Re: Big Foreign Yellow Jackets In-Reply-To: <32271458@msgate.paoli.atm.lmco.com> Me too here in Seattle! Last years YJ's were the worst, didn't even see one this year until 2 weeks ago. What happen to 'em? Can't say I miss 'em. Teri ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Sep 1996 20:55:30 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Tim Cote Subject: Re: Br. Adam At 03:33 AM 9/2/96 -0400, Brian Gant wrote: >Peter Donovan, who worked closely with Br Adam at Buckfast Abbey, has asked >me to pass on the message that Br Adam died on September 1, aged 98. >Brian Gant > > Sad news. The man's legend is enormous but I've never tried his bees. I've got a colony out back that needs a new queen, maybe this is reason enough to try a Buckfast. Anyone know a good source? Timothy Cote MD MPH 512 Boston Ave Takoma Park, MD 20912 301-587-2425 fax 301-587-6192 beesbuzz@erols.gov ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 30 Aug 1996 15:32:53 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Adrian Wenner Subject: Re: Newbie Questions about Honeybees Comments: cc: daddyo1@BULLDOG.AFSC.K12.AR.US Marton wrote: >My question is this: I went out to the hive today to watch for a while and >I noticed that there where some very large looking bees coming and going. >They where a lot darker in color than the workers and about 4 or 5 >millimeters longer and thicker, they also made a lot more noise when they >flew. These guys where coming and going without any trouble. ****** Those were likely drone honey bees (the males), that normally fly in mid-afternoon. You should really read a couple of Sue Hubbell's books (for example, A COUNTRY YEAR and A BOOK OF BEES). She has kept bees in the Ozarks and writes very well! Adrian Adrian M. Wenner (805) 893-2838 (UCSB office) Ecol., Evol., & Marine Biology (805) 893-8062 (UCSB FAX) Univ. of Calif., Santa Barbara (805) 963-8508 (home office & FAX) Santa Barbara, CA 93106 ************************************************************************* * "The difference between real and unreal things is that unreal things * * usually last much longer." Pot-Shots #6728 * * Copyright, Ashleigh Brilliant --- used with permission * ************************************************************************* ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Sep 1996 01:52:26 -0700 Reply-To: defiant@iglou.com Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ken Mcauliffe Organization: iglou.com Subject: tracheal mites and oil patties Hi. I was wondering if anyone knows if Diane Sammataro has done any follow-up research on her 1991-93 studies on tracheal mites and oil patties. If anyone knows anything, let me know via e-mail! Thanks! :D ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Sep 1996 20:40:50 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Joel Govostes Subject: Re: Br. Adam It is indeed sad to hear of Br. Adam's passing away. He has left a great legacy of work. If any of you are interested in his endeavors with bee breeding, the BBC video "The Monk & the Honey Bee" is wonderful and very enlightening. I borrowed the video from a friend, but I believe it is advertised for sale in the mags. I just happened to check my newest Buckfast colonies today; they were established in late July with queens from the U.S. Buckfast breeder, B. Weaver in Navasota TX. Anyway, true to their typical behavior, they were wonderfully docile, calm, busy, and most noticeably have not built any annoying burr comb. This is noticeable immediately. Their use of propolis is scant, and you hardly need a hive tool to remove the frames. These colonies (12) have put away a super of surplus each already, and the combs are very even and capped white. In my experience they are pretty reluctant to swarm compared to the local mongrels. These are just some of the positive characteristics I have come to expect from Buckfasts, and they sure are a pleasure to work with. Granted, there cannot be 100% controlled mating down at Weaver's, but it seems clear that there are some excellent genes being propagated in their Buckfast program, and the consistency is remarkable. I would encourage anyone to give them a try, especially if you are looking for hardy stock which is tracheal mite resistant. I hope these bees will remain available to us in the years to come, and that Buckfast Abbey will maintain the program there. It would be great to hear about other's experiences (UK, for instance) with the bees which were developed by this truly great and inspirational master. Thanks, JWG ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Sep 1996 22:07:01 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ian Watson Subject: Re: Newbie Questions about Honeybees In-Reply-To: On Fri, 30 Aug 1996, Adrian Wenner wrote: > Marton wrote: > > >My question is this: I went out to the hive today to watch for a while and > >I noticed that there where some very large looking bees coming and going. > >They where a lot darker in color than the workers and about 4 or 5 > >millimeters longer and thicker, they also made a lot more noise when they > >flew. These guys where coming and going without any trouble. > > ****** > > Those were likely drone honey bees (the males), that normally fly in > mid-afternoon. > > You should really read a couple of Sue Hubbell's books (for example, A > COUNTRY YEAR and A BOOK OF BEES). She has kept bees in the Ozarks and > writes very well! > > Adrian I agree!....I read "A Book of Bees" twice...infact it's almost time to read it again...its so good. She has a way with words..and also knows a lot about bees.....I'm sure you'll enjoy it...:) Ian Watson iwatson@freenet.npiec.on.ca ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Sep 1996 22:11:59 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ian Watson Subject: Re: Big Foreign Yellow Jackets In-Reply-To: On Fri, 30 Aug 1996, Teri Rhan wrote: > Me too here in Seattle! Last years YJ's were the worst, didn't even see > one this year until 2 weeks ago. > > What happen to 'em? > > Can't say I miss 'em. > > Teri Well....its been a few days now...so I figured I better add my 2 cents worth. I thought it was only me who had hardly any yellow jackets around....I think I saw one of the large ones....and there are usually a few smaller ones buzzing around the hive entrance...but my bees keep them at bay. Not that I'm complaining!!...our bees were decimated by those nasty buggers last year.....Cheers to the hard winter..or whatever in responsible...:) Ian Watson iwatson@freenet.npiec.on.ca ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Sep 1996 21:48:48 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Doug Henry Subject: End of Honey Season Events Normally when I remove full supers I tip them on their side and wait for bees to leave and then I take the full supers to area where i do my exr\tracting. Generally this is uneventful. This weekend however it was not so easy. The removed supers were quickly set upon by hordes of bees from other colonies. I had to put them under shelter before all the honey was stolen. I took advantage of this by putting out a super of old honey I had from last year that didn't get extracted for some reason. When I checked it tonight it was completely empty. I noticed a lot of wax powder and dead bees around the super. I assume the wax debris is from removed cappings. I'm puzzeled by the dead bees. Could this be a result of inter-colony fighting? I have a couple of other supers with old honey I would like to recycle by the above method and then extract. Has anybody else tried this? Am I doing anything wrong here? Thanks for your help. Regards, Doug Henry, Lockport, Manitoba. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Sep 1996 20:42:37 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Paul Cronshaw, D.C." Subject: Re: Fascinating Facts about bees I am often asked to give a 30 minute demo on bees in our local elementary schools: Over the years I have noticed that the children are interested in the following facts: 1. Honey bees don't bite, they sting. 2. Honey bees are social insects. They work for the good of the hive. There are no walk outs, strikes, or pay raises. There is division of labor amongst the members: a. Field bees - collect nectar b. Garbage bees - take out trash c. Guard Bees - protect the hive d. Air-conditioner bees - fan the hive e. Nurse bees - Feed the baby bees 3. Honey bees collect nectar, bring it back to the hive and pass it to another bee who deposits it into a honey cell = "bee barf". 4. No human has been stung by a Queen, her stinger is reserved for a rival queen. 5. Honey Bees fly over 55,000 miles to make 1 pound of honey. And A worker honey bee makes only 1/12 of a teaspoon of honey in her lifetime (From SueBee Home page: http://www.suebee.com 6. The Killer Bee should be refered to as The African Honey Bee. Unfortunately, I fault the media for this description. 6. A bee hive is about the same temperature as the human body 8. The number of bees in a hive. (Can't t remember the number. DO you how many in a pound?) 9. The queen lays over 1000 eggs a day. 10. Swarming bees are least likely to sting because their abdomens are distended with honey. 11. We are loosing bees and we should consider them to be our friends. Do not step on them out of spite. 12. Beekeepers don't get Arthritis or Cancer ( I would like to get a reference on this one) 13. All the products produced or collected by bees can be used by humans: a. Honey b. Beeswax c. Royal Jelly d. Propolis e. Pollen f. Chocolate covered bees g. Venom Perhaps these will help generate few more from this list Paul M. Cronshaw, D.C. Hobby Beekeeper Santa Barbara, CA PS Your last name intregues me! :) ******************* Date: Fri, 30 Aug 1996 14:44:29 -0600 From: "Whitney S. Cranshaw" Subject: Fascinating Facts about bees A friend of mine works on a public television show involving science issues that is directed to kids. (Newton's Apple the show is called.) She called me today for advice on writing a small 25-word-or-less "fascinating fact" about honeybees. I proposed a few ideas such as the way/ways bees communicate, the number of flowers that they visit, weights of nectar loads, the effect of diet in determining development of queens/workers, etc. However, they still want other ideas - things that can be put across clearly and succinctly. My request to this group: What do you think are facts about honeybees that would be most fascinating to a kid between 8 and 15 years old? Whitney Cranshaw Colorado, USA wcransha@ceres.agsci.colostate.edu ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Sep 1996 00:10:09 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Richard Chapin Subject: Br. Adam Br. Adam, O.B.E. (1910-1996): Jesus said: In my Father's house are many rooms ... I go to prepare a place for you.... I will come again and receive you unto myself, that where I am, there ye may be also." Some of us can not imagine the Lord of all creation neglecting to provide an apiary as well. If beekeepers could canonize saints, we have one here. Whenever I give thanks for the traditional patron saint of beekeeping, St. Ambrose, I'll always add Brother Adam. Richard Chapin+ Montrose, PA (\ {|||8- (/ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Sep 1996 23:06:54 -0600 Reply-To: allend@internode.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Allen Dick Organization: The Beekeepers Subject: Re: Fascinating Facts about bees > the following facts: > > 1. Honey bees don't bite, they sting. They do, in fact, bite. They often will bite my wrists long before they are sufficiently provoked to sting. > > 2. Honey bees are social insects. They work for the good of the > hive. There are no walk outs, strikes, or pay raises. We, of course, have no way whatsoever of knowing that. Pretty fanciful -- and anthropomorphic to boot. > 4. No human has been stung by a Queen Well, if you consider Andy to be a human ;) -- as I do -- we all know that is not true. (Right, Andy?) > 5. Honey Bees fly over 55,000 miles to make 1 pound of honey. And A > worker honey bee makes only 1/12 of a teaspoon of honey in her > lifetime (From SueBee Home page: http://www.suebee.com Well, maybe the public can believe that, but these are wild guesses and generalities -- not 'facts'. These guesses are based on assumptions that are not always true. > 9. The queen lays over 1000 eggs a day. Not my queens. Some days, yes, many (most) days of the year, no. > 10. Swarming bees are least likely to sting because their abdomens > are distended with honey. ...Until they hang around a few days in bad weather, then believers beware. > 11. We are loosing bees and we should consider them to be our > friends. Do not step on them out of spite. I doubt anyone can step on enough bees to make much of a difference, but, okay -- besides it's hard on your bare feet :( and makes amess of the rug. > 12. Beekeepers don't get Arthritis or Cancer ( I would like to get > a reference on this one) Me too, because this is easily proven false. There is quite surely some truth to the beliefs that bee stings are beneficial in some types of arthritis. Less likely IMO is the less commonbelief that beekeeping may have some inhibiting effects on some cancers. Just ask any beekeeper how his back is, or if he knows of a beekeeper who had cancer, and the falacy of this becomes obvious. How many beekeepers on this list have arthritis or cancer? I have some arthritis. Don't know about cancer... (Hope not). Regards Allen W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper VE6CFK RR#1, Swalwell, Alberta Canada T0M 1Y0 Internet:dicka@cuug.ab.ca & allend@internode.net Honey. Bees, & Art ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Sep 1996 01:50:14 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Cecile T. Kohrs" Subject: Re: another question! Hi Ian! Here's the latest from the friends who have been priming me with bee-related questions. First, I should say my friend Chris, the triathlete, said the honey from my home state was wonderfully tasty. But his mom asked how beekeepers know what type of flowers the nectar came from. I mean (she has a point) there are millions of flowers and fruits and vegetables and herbs out there, how does one know its "clover honey" or "wildflower honey" or whatever? Is it a plot? Cecile ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Sep 1996 19:50:41 +1300 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Peter Bray Subject: Re: another question! At 06:52 PM 9/3/96 +1300, you wrote: >Hi Ian! > >Here's the latest from the friends who have been priming me with bee-related >questions. > >First, I should say my friend Chris, the triathlete, said the honey from my >home state was wonderfully tasty. But his mom asked how beekeepers know what >type of flowers the nectar came from. I mean (she has a point) there are >millions of flowers and fruits and vegetables and herbs out there, how does >one know its "clover honey" or "wildflower honey" or whatever? Is it a plot? > >Cecile There is a standard response we have developed to this question. 1. Geographical Location. Many honey producing flowers are either present or absent in a particular area. 2. Time of flowering. Many honey sources can be separated because they flower at separate times of the year. This in turn allows producers to remove honey prior to and after each separatable honey source. 3. Some form of analysis. This can be as simple as looking at appearance and flavour, to a full battery of tests looking for in spec measurements of a range of possible parameters. These tend to be developed specifically for each honey type. e.g. conductivity for honeydew sources, thixotropy for ling heather and manuka. ---------------------------------------------------------------- Peter Bray, Airborne Honey Ltd., PO Box 28, Leeston, New Zealand Fax 64-3-324-3236, Phone 64-3-324-3569 p.bray@netaccess.co.nz ---------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Sep 1996 11:25:19 +0200 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Josip KLECZEK Subject: Re: Fascinating Facts about bees Dear Friend To point 12: An old and most experienced beekeeper in our country (Czechoslovakia at that time) told me that miners in Pribram uranium mines who were beekeepers, never had cancer. Due to the fact that he had contacts with many beekeepers in that region (West Bohemia), I consider his testimony a reliable one. Greetings Josip. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Sep 1996 15:16:26 +0200 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Leroux Guillaume cnet-laa-tss-ssv (Tel 96051333)" Subject: Re : Fascinating Facts about bees In-Reply-To: > a. Honey > b. Beeswax > c. Royal Jelly > d. Propolis > e. Pollen > f. Chocolate covered bees > g. Venom I was wondering what those wonderful "Chocolate covered bees" were. As I love chocolate as much as honey, maybee I can get both from my hive... Anyone knows how to ? :-) | Guillaume LEROUX lerouxg@lannion.cnet.fr | The opinions expressed herein are mine alone unless otherwise stated ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Sep 1996 00:58:06 +0300 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Durk Ellison Organization: Infoshare Subject: BeeNet International From: Durk.Ellison@knowledgebase.fi (Durk Ellison) Hi All, Recently I've had several request for information on how and where to connect to BeeNet. First off, perhaps I'd better explain that BeeNet uses FTN (Fido Technology Network) protocol. So it's not directly accessible via the internet. What you do need is a PC, a Terminal program, a modem and a phone line. For those of you living in the U.S. and Canada ANDY NACHBAUR's WILDBEES BBS in CALIFORNIA was linked to BeeNet International via Wild Net but this link went down last year. We are currently looking for another gateway to Andy's BBS. However we do try to keep Andy's system up dated with programs and files as much as we can via tape and currently CD Roms. In about a month we'll be sending him an update CD so watch for it on his system. Here are the current country hosts. If you have any further questions or inquires please contact the nearest one to you. If there isn't one near then please contact the International Zone Coordinator, Jorn Johanesson. POSTAL ADDRESSES DATA & VOICE PHONES OF BEENET REGION HOSTS: =========================================================== DANMARK - Current International BeeNet Zone Coordinator J0rn Johanesson Solsortevej 27 Assens, DK 9550 Mariager DANMARK voice +45 98-584061 data +45 98-583997 GERMANY FINLAND Helge Roehrbein Durk Ellison Scheelenkamp 26 Py|rrekuja 4 c 43 Garbsen, 30827 01600 Vantaa BRD FINLAND voice +49 5131-465795 voice +358 0 5664608 data +49 5131-465796 data +358 0 5062622 HOLLAND SWITZERLAND Hugo Veerkamp Philippe Villoz P.O. box 51008 Dietlikerstr. 22 1007EA Amsterdam 8302 Kloten Holland Suisse voice +31 20-6715663 voice +41 1-8046969 data +31 20-6764105 data +41 1-8046913 SWEDEN UNITED KINGDOM Olda Vancata Steven Turner Vallonvagen 2D 153 Thornsbeach Road 730 50 Skultuna Catford Sverige London voice +46 21-75411 SE6 1HB data +46 21-70757 England voice +44 181-6980313 data +44 181-6955328 Kind regards, Durk Ellison Tuesday, 3 September 1996 at 0:58 hrs - Vantaa, Finland BeeNet : 240:2358/100 InterNet : Durk.Ellison@knowledgebase.fi Packet : oh2zas @ oh2rbt.#hki.fin.eu .!. BeeNet, the computer network for Beekeepers by Beekeepers... --- Terminate 4.00/Pro ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Sep 1996 08:08:10 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: janet montgomery Subject: CRYSTALIZED HONEY IN FRAMES I have about 30% of my supers that have a substantial quanity of crystalized honey after extracting of the liquid honey. Does anyone have any suggestions on how to clean or remove this crystalized honey from the frames? Will the bees rob them out if left outside the hives? I so, will it just transfer the crystalized honey back into the colony? Should I place them over or under the broodchamber for winter feed and hope they will use them? Any suggestions / comments will be appreciated. I have been lurking for several months and this is my first contact with you all and please comment on this transmission format etc IF there is a reason. Thanks for any suggestions DAN VEILLEUX COLUMBUS, OHIO USA Janet Montgomery jmontgom@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Sep 1996 08:46:19 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Dave Green, Eastern Pollinator Newsletter" Subject: Re: End of Honey Season Events In a message dated 96-09-02 22:53:12 EDT, you write: << I assume the wax debris is from removed cappings. I'm puzzeled by the dead bees. Could this be a result of inter-colony fighting? I have a couple of other supers with old honey I would like to recycle by the above method and then extract. Has anybody else tried this? Am I doing anything wrong here? >> Yup. If you allow uncontrolled robbing, a lot of the honey you are attempting to recycle will end up in the stomachs of dead bees. Plus you may well have bees jump a weaker hive and rob it out too. Put the super you want to save over an inner cover after scratching the comb to open up the cells. Make sure the entrances are reduced and there are no cracks in the upper part of the hive. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Sep 1996 09:10:00 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Palm, Kevin R. (LLP)" Subject: St. Ambrose Fellow BEE-Lers, I have a probably strange question. I'm not Catholic, but I was wondering about St. Ambrose, the patron saint of beekeepers. I know that there are St. Christopher's medals, but do medallions or medals exist for St. Ambrose?? Would it be considered inappropriate for me to wear one (if such a thing exists)?? I don't know if this is an appropriate question for BEE-L, but I can think of nowhere else to ask it. . . Thanks, Kevin Palm ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Sep 1996 09:26:52 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Tim Peters Subject: Re: possible multimedia info At 09:29 PM 8/30/96 -0500, you wrote: > George, in the beautiful Northeast Kingdom of Vermont,USA > GEORGE!!!! Are You the George in East Burke? How are your bees doing? How much honey did you bring in this season? You don't have the faintest idea who I am, do you? Just found out from Marty Lomasney and Steve Parise that you kept bees. If you're THAT George in East Burke. Even if not...its nice to see someone else from this neck of the woods on the list. Looking forward to seeing your reply. Regards from Kirby: Tim Peters, Kirby VT tpeters@kingcon.com KirBee Apiary, Bear Bait Honey I rather be flying! ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Sep 1996 11:19:28 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Tim Peters Subject: Virgin Queen? Good Morning all Bee-Liners: I have a question that I need answered. A few weeks back someone posted a comment about requeening and his opinion about queen suppliers having problems with virgin queens. I can't find the post or else I'd reference it. I need to know more about this. I purchased a Double-Hybrid queen 2+ weeks ago to requeen my lackluster Italian hive. I was beset by a multitude of problems. First the queen was the smallest queen (packaged or otherwise) that I've ever seen. Just barely larger than the attendants. Secondly, I received her on a beautiful sunny, warm day but was unable to retrieve her from the P.O. until late afternoon; and since the next day had a favorable weather forecast I decided to wait. The next day dawned cold and rainy. It was the first of three days of rain showers and heavy overcast. Thirdly, I shamefacedly admit that I was unable to locate the old queen after two attempts. In my second botched attempt I spent the better part of an hour delving into the hive in a vain search. I collected some valuable data. For this particular hive the girls tolerence is limited to 45 minutes. I received several stings THROUGH my suit and clothes as reward for my ineptness. I decided to split a nuc off the hive with brood and nurse bees the next day. Much to my delight I discovered that the alarm and sting pheromes were still quite fresh on my suit, so I didn't even get the inner cover off before I was beset by 2 dozen bitchy bees. Retrieveing the brood frames was pandamonium! When I finally placed the queen cage in the nuc, all the attendants were dead but queeny looked ok. The queen was accepted and released without incident. I checked on the nuc Sunday, 9-1 and while queeny was contendedly meandering across the frame there was not a single egg or larvae to be found. I should also mention that there was a golenrod flow but all field bees went back to the parent hive, so I fed sugar syrup. By my rough calculation the queen has been free for about 9-10 days. What are your considered opinions? Do I have a virgin? If so, what should I do now? Wait for supercedure? or send for another queen? Should I wait awhile longer and see what develops? I don't want to wait too long, as Fall is upon us up here. Thanks for your help in advance, Tim Peters, Kirby VT tpeters@kingcon.com KirBee Apiary, Bear Bait Honey I rather be flying! ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Sep 1996 10:20:24 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jerry J Bromenshenk Subject: Re: Smoking Mean Bees In-Reply-To: <199609020802.WAA02834@isis.interpac.net> from "Bob St. John" at Sep 1, 96 10:02:45 pm Hi: As regards bees knowing that a storm is coming due to barometric pressure changes - as always, the answer is not that simple. We now have 21 hives (in gruops of 7 at 3 locations) fitted with counters that monitor every bee coming and going from each hive. Yes, bees do come home before the thunderstorm. No, it is not necessarily a drop in barometric pressure. We have an electronic weather station at each site. Barometric pressure does not always drop before a storm, yet the bees still come home. We suspect multiple triggers for this behavior - temperature drops, wind speed increase or calm before the storm, changes in light intensity, and maybe some things bees detect that we can't - such as the electrical charge in the air. Just as you and I pick up on more than one indicator of the approach of a storm, bees may do the same. Jerry Bromenshenk The University of Montana jjbmail@selway.umt.edu http://grizzly.umt.edu/biology/bees ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Sep 1996 14:04:44 +0100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Dave Black Subject: Re: Drone Foundation Source & MORE In-Reply-To: <199608301844.OAA10734@segwun.muskoka.net> David, How are you ? In message <199608301844.OAA10734@segwun.muskoka.net>, David Eyre writes > OLd Drone wrote concerening Drone foundation. >It works great, but if you do not have >>excluders you could end up rearing a lot more drones in the spring and >>today this would translate to a lot more Varroa Mites as they are said >>to prefer drone brood over worker. > > Is there any proof to the validity of Andys statement? The drone preference has been demonstrated by many; Fuchs (1990) Apidologie 21(3): 193-199 for one. The consensus is it is 8 - 10 times more infested than worker brood. The distribution of mites in various brood cells is discussed in (for example) Wiegting & Ferenz's paper (1991) ABJ 131(2): 117-118. Done is attractive to mites for about 45 hours before it is capped (worker 15 hours) and as its capped for two days longer more daughter mites have time to reach sexual maturity and mate in drone brood. Once the bee emerges the inmature females and males die and only mature females live on the adult bee. The actual number of these emerging from the brood cells varies, depending on all sorts of things. On average the number from worker is 1 to 1.7 and from drone 2 or 3. See Schulz (Apidologie 1984); Infantidis (Journal of Apicultural Research 1984) and Fuch & Langenbach (Apidologie 1989) More recent research reported in the UK journal Beecraft from Rothamstead (can't remember who did it !) put the proportions at about 3:5 (worker to drone) There is no doubt that drone rearing can also be varroa rearing. Pet subject. Shall look some more ? -- Dave Black Blacks Bee Gardens, Guildford, GU1 4RN. UK. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Sep 1996 13:03:05 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Franklin Humphrey Subject: Re: Where are the yellow jacket Here in the Chattanooga, TN area, we have fore than enough yellow jackets. Anyone who feels the need, feel to gather as many as you like. I got one swarm call this year that turned out to be the biggest Yellow Jacket nest I have ever seen. There were so many coming and going that it did appear to be a honey bees nest from a distance and the home owner didn't want to get close. I have seen one of the large European Yellow Jackets, if that what it was, It was carrying a locust and went under my sister-in-laws house. Frank Humphrey beekeepr@cdc.net ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Sep 1996 13:11:11 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Cecile T. Kohrs" Subject: Re: St. Ambrose In a message dated 96-09-03 09:14:08 EDT, you write: << I have a probably strange question. I'm not Catholic, but I was wondering about St. Ambrose, the patron saint of beekeepers. I know that there are St. Christopher's medals, but do medallions or medals exist for St. Ambrose?? Would it be considered inappropriate for me to wear one (if such a thing exists)?? I don't know if this is an appropriate question for BEE-L, but I can think of nowhere else to ask it. . . Thanks, Kevin Palm >> Kevin: Hi. Yes, I am sure you can find a St. Ambrose medal. My name is Cecilia, and I had to special order a St. Cecilia medal. And I have dogs, and their patron is St. Roch (every day a dog brought him bread while he was hiding from persecutors) Those can be specially ordered also. Your best bet is to try either a GOOD jewelry story, which can special order one for you, or a Catholic book store, which could do that as well. Just look it up in your yellow pages, or call a local Catholic parish and ask for info. As to your not being Catholic. I am, and IT WOULD NOT OFFEND ME IN THE LEAST. And I am not nearly as accepting as God, who certainly would not be offended. We don't worship saints, we ask them, as we would ask a friend to pray for us. And we look to them for ways to live better lives in a complex world. Saints, in the traditional Catholic sense, are simply people who were sinners (read "folks just like me" who did their best to lead good lives, following in the example of Christ's perfection. If you can learn from these people, it doesn't matter what faith you are. And anyone who would be offended wouldn't be looking at the big picture. We are all brothers (and to be politically correct, sisters) trying to get through life learning and growing and helping each other. I don't know all the history of St. Ambrose, but probably, there was no other Christian church when he lived. As to this bee-ing appropriate to the Bee list...where else could you ask? Good luck! Cecile ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Sep 1996 13:11:07 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ian Watson Subject: Re: Fascinating Facts about bees Comments: To: Allen Dick In-Reply-To: On Mon, 2 Sep 1996, Allen Dick wrote: > > > the following facts: > > > > 1. Honey bees don't bite, they sting. > > They do, in fact, bite. They often will bite my wrists long before > they are sufficiently provoked to sting. > > > > 2. Honey bees are social insects. They work for the good of the > > hive. There are no walk outs, strikes, or pay raises. > > We, of course, have no way whatsoever of knowing that. Pretty > fanciful -- and anthropomorphic to boot. > > > 4. No human has been stung by a Queen > > Well, if you consider Andy to be a human ;) -- as I do -- we all know > that is not true. (Right, Andy?) > > > 5. Honey Bees fly over 55,000 miles to make 1 pound of honey. And A > > worker honey bee makes only 1/12 of a teaspoon of honey in her > > lifetime (From SueBee Home page: http://www.suebee.com > > Well, maybe the public can believe that, but these are wild guesses > and generalities -- not 'facts'. These guesses are based on > assumptions that are not always true. > > > 9. The queen lays over 1000 eggs a day. > > Not my queens. Some days, yes, many (most) days of the year, no. > > > 10. Swarming bees are least likely to sting because their abdomens > > are distended with honey. > > ...Until they hang around a few days in bad weather, then believers > beware. > > > 11. We are loosing bees and we should consider them to be our > > friends. Do not step on them out of spite. > > I doubt anyone can step on enough bees to make much of a difference, > but, okay -- besides it's hard on your bare feet :( and makes amess > of the rug. > > > 12. Beekeepers don't get Arthritis or Cancer ( I would like to get > > a reference on this one) > > Me too, because this is easily proven false. > > There is quite surely some truth to the beliefs that bee stings are > beneficial in some types of arthritis. Less likely IMO is the less > commonbelief that beekeeping may have some inhibiting effects on some > cancers. > > Just ask any beekeeper how his back is, or if he knows of a > beekeeper who had cancer, and the falacy of this becomes obvious. > > How many beekeepers on this list have arthritis or cancer? > > I have some arthritis. Don't know about cancer... (Hope not). > > Regards > > Allen > > W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper VE6CFK > RR#1, Swalwell, Alberta Canada T0M 1Y0 > Internet:dicka@cuug.ab.ca & allend@internode.net > Honey. Bees, & Art > Gee.....I thought this list was about sharing information and helping each other.....not shooting holes in other people's posts......sheesh! Ian Watson iwatson@freenet.npiec.on.ca ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Sep 1996 13:21:14 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ted Fischer Subject: Re: End of Honey Season Even REGARDING RE>End of Honey Season Events Doug Henry wrote: "Normally when I remove full supers I tip them on their side and wait for bees to leave and then I take the full supers to area where i do my exr\tracting. Generally this is uneventful. This weekend however it was not so easy. The removed supers were quickly set upon by hordes of bees from other colonies. I had to put them under shelter before all the honey was stolen. I took advantage of this by putting out a super of old honey I had from last year that didn't get extracted for some reason. When I checked it tonight it was completely empty. I noticed a lot of wax powder and dead bees around the super. I assume the wax debris is from removed cappings. I'm puzzeled by the dead bees. Could this be a result of inter-colony fighting? " I think that your method of removing bees can often lend itself to the sort of experiences you just reported. Perhaps in the middle of a good honey flow you could get away with this, but I feel it is a poor management practice in general. Try instead using fume boards. For many years I resisted the use of fume boards, but now have become a real convert. If the weather is at all warm, fume boards will clear out 90-100% of the bees in about 3 minutes. The rest can easily be blown out with a bee blower, if necessary. I can remove honey supers and stack them on my truck as fast as I am able, without getting the bees upset in the least, or stimulating robbing. Even though the supers are temporarily open on the truck, the bees never even notice them, because with fume boards there is no great disruption and flying about. There is no robbing, no fighting among the bees, no stinging of the beekeeper. One caution, however: the weather must be warm. In cool weather, the bees will not move, even with the boards. Ted Fischer ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Sep 1996 13:57:19 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Kevin D. Parsons" <102372.624@CompuServe.COM> Subject: Re: Where are the yellow jacket > Here in the Chattanooga, TN area, we have fore than enough yellow jackets. > Anyone who feels the need, feel to gather as many as you like. I got one > swarm call this year that turned out to be the biggest Yellow Jacket nest I > have ever seen. There were so many coming and going that it did appear to > be a honey bees nest from a distance and the home owner didn't want to get > close. > > I have seen one of the large European Yellow Jackets, if that what it was, > It was carrying a locust and went under my sister-in-laws house. > Frank, I found an enormous hornet digging under a flower pot. It was 1 1/4 inches long. Markings were similar to a yellow jacket. The biggest yellow jacket I've ever seen! My Audubon bug book suggests that it is a "Cicada Killer" (Sphecius speciosus). They capture cicadas to place in the next. Eggs are laid on the cicada. Sound like the same thing you saw. BTW, in Pittsburgh PA the yellow jackets seem to be having an typical year. Kevin D. Parsons ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Sep 1996 14:03:17 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ted Fischer Subject: Re: Burr/brace REGARDING RE>Burr/brace On 8/21 John Alexander wrote: "'m in Beltsville Md and started a hive in early july. They built up well in the first deep and I supered up about the middle of July and went on leave for most of August. Just checked the boxes. Bottom brood box looks fine, but the top on is a gawd awful mess. Burr, brace, folds and other generally bad looking work. It's is also exclusively full of honey. No brood! Plenty of brood in the bottom though. Any thoughts on what I can do to get them to draw out better and maybe get the queen to start laying up top?" Just a few thoughts. I think it's perfectly normal that your queen is laying in the bottom hive body and the top is filled with honey. At this time of the year, I wouldn't be at all concerned about that. During the winter, as the honey from the upper hive body is consumed, the cluster will gradually move up and fill that hive body with brood. However, you should probably intervene to clear up the excessive burr and brace comb that is being build in the upper hive body. I would move frames around, cutting off the brace comb, and positioning the cut areas opposite good comb regions, if you can find them. Be careful, however, since you are using Duragilt foundation, not to cut close to the foundation. If the plastic core is exposed, the bees will clean all wax off of it and never use that part again. This then gives an open invitation to build up *lots* of brace comb on the comb facing the bare plastic. This is one of the main reasons that I will never use Duragilt again. Ted Fischer ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Sep 1996 14:22:20 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ted Fischer Subject: Re: What a dilemma! REGARDING RE>What a dilemma! Robert Henderson wrote (8/23): "Is it normal for the bees to not like the Menthol to the extent that they stay outside the hive? In the hives that I have treated with Menthol on the bottom board (daily temps are 80+), the bees are staying on the outside, rather than going in. Will this affect treatment? and will brood rearing be affected?" In my experience, bees *hate* menthol. It will force them out, as was reported, and they will propolize heavily around the menthol bag, sticking it fast to the frame tops or bottoms. The bag then generally tears when one tries to remove it, spilling menthol all over the hive, and necessitating a hive clean-up among grouchy bees. Menthol also dissolves in the propolis, creating a real smelly mess when one tries to clean up the hive parts. I think that I hate menthol as much as my bees. Luckily, there is an alternative, the grease patty, with or without terramycin, which takes care of the tracheal mite much better than menthol, and without any mess at all. Ted Fischer ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Sep 1996 14:30:48 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ted Fischer Subject: Re: Crystallized honey in fr REGARDING RE>Crystallized honey in frames Janet Montgomery wrote: "I have about 30% of my supers that have a substantial quanity of crystalized honey after extracting of the liquid honey. Does anyone have any suggestions on how to clean or remove this crystalized honey from the frames? Will the bees rob them out if left outside the hives? I so, will it just transfer the crystalized honey back into the colony? Should I place them over or under the broodchamber for winter feed and hope they will use them?" This problem often happens when early honey stays too long in the super, and all honey is extracted together at the end of the season. I found that the best way to get the bees to clean it out is to put the super on top of the inner cover. The bees will eagerly go up to clean it out, and will just throw the granulated particles out of the hive. Then remove the super before they get the idea to put honey back in it (especially if you have put Apistan strips on already!) Ted Fischer ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Sep 1996 13:06:59 -0600 Reply-To: allend@internode.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Allen Dick Organization: The Beekeepers Subject: BEE-L Archives As some may have already noticed, I have discontinued collecting and archiving the logs of BEE-L for web access. I shall be removing the references from my web pages shortly. I believe that Adam F will continue to have some (all?) on the Sunsite server. And, of course the logs can still be obtained from the LISTSERV that handles this list. I hope this change does not cause anyone any inconvience. Regards Allen W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper VE6CFK RR#1, Swalwell, Alberta Canada T0M 1Y0 Internet:dicka@cuug.ab.ca & allend@internode.net Honey. Bees, & Art ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Sep 1996 15:35:22 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ted Fischer Subject: Re: Apistan placement in hiv REGARDING RE>Apistan placement in hives Eric Abell wrote (8/21): "As I have some yards that have been exposed to Varroa it is my intention to treat these with Apistan this fall. All of these colonies are in 2 brood chambers and while it would be nice to put 2 strips in each chamber, it is a real pain to get into the bottom one. So my question is this: What has the experience been putting 4 strips in the upper chamber ONLY?" Due to experience, I have learned the hard way that it is important to put two strips in each hive body. Like you, I have had to deal with fully packed hives this time of the year, which presents challenges. This is how I do it: First, I remove the outer cover and smoke the surface of the inner cover, usually completely covered by bees. Then I pry the two hive bodies apart, at the back, and puff smoke in as soon as there is a crack. I pry up all four corners of the top chamber, then slide it back about an inch and tip it up upon the lower chamber and balance it in this position with one hand. The bees usually are pretty well cleared away from between the hive bodies because of the prior smoking, so the strips can be slipped in the lower chamber easily now. At this time I also put a couple of Terrapatties down as well. The upper chamber is now lowered back into place, the inner cover removed and the strips and more Terrapatties placed on the upper chamber. I also have several colonies in three hive bodies packed with bees. This really is a challenge to get Apistan into each one of them. It is not anywhere near as easy as with just two! Ted Fischer ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Sep 1996 16:21:44 EDT Reply-To: "Glen B. Glater" Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Glen B. Glater" Subject: Beekeeping in Northern California Can someone point me to extension programs or beekeeper organizations in Northern California (South SF Bay/San Jose area)? Thanks in advance. --glen ************************************************************** Midnight Networks 200 Fifth Avenue * Waltham, MA 02154 Glen B. Glater Principal, Strategic Networking Group Phone: (617) 890-1001 Fax: (617) 890-0028 Internet: glen@midnight.com http://www.midnight.com/~glen Midnight Networks WWW page http://www.midnight.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Sep 1996 18:14:26 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Bill Miller Subject: Re: Wormy Honey What to do with the waxworms, bee parts, and assorted other bits and pieces that are in freshly extracted honey? I have heard of an individual who leaves the bits and pieces in his extracted honey just to "prove" to his customers that they are getting really raw honey. To each his own, I suppose, but you won't win any Fair blue ribbons that way. Filter the bits and pieces out. Ikea (the Swedish furnishing stores) sells a screen bowl that is intended to keep insects off food plates during picnics. I have found these bowls to be most excellent coarse strainers for extracted honey. This removes the large pieces. I also let the honey rest in a bucket for at least a week before bottling. A layer of foam and more bits and pieces will come to the top. I skim that off with an aquarium fishnet (the net used never saw a fish tank). For final filtering I use a nylon bridal cloth that is similar to bridal veil material, but of finer weave. Pantyhose material is also good (wash it first). Commercial strainers/filters are also available. W. G. Miller Gaithersburg, MD ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Sep 1996 18:38:29 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jerry J Bromenshenk Subject: University of Montana Bee Counters Hi: I have had some requests for information about our bi-directional, bee counters. To date, we have deployed 21 of these units at three sites. At the moment, we are designing and building these from scratch. We intend to publish circuit diagrams and software code this fall. Perhaps the Bee-L subscribers can recommend an appropriate, peer-reviewed journal. Several authors have published papers concerning a variety of counters ranging from fairly simple to very sophisticated. The state-of-the-art seems to be a commercial bee counter called BeeScan that is sold in Europe by Lowland Electronics bvba. We havenot seen or used one; mainly because it if far too expensive for our research needs. We could afford one or two, but not 21 counters. The Lowland Counter has 32 entrance portals, each equiped with bi-directional, micro-gap, infra-red detectors. Each unit has its own self-contained computer processor. It is designed for mounting to the front of a full-size beehive. Based on a published paper and advertising, the Lowland system appears to be a very nice piece of equipment. If anyone has used one, we would be interested in your comments. Our units are quite a bit different. We use inexpensive infra-red emitters and detectors available at our local electonic parts stores. Our counters mount to a nucleus hive - a two story unit 1/2 the size of a single Dadant deep hive body. Each of our counters has 14 entrance portals. The electonics are mounted in a polyethylene porch with an overhanging roof. Poly is relatively easy to machine with simple tools and remains dimensionally stable in wet and dry weather. However, you need to build some special jigs to meet rather critical machining and alignment tolerances. Like the Lowland counter, our counters are bi-directional (counting bees going in and coming out of the hive). Our software uses a very rigorous algorithm. Because bees do not always go all the way through an entrance (balking or backing out), our software only scores a bee if it registers on both of the detectors mounted in the portal. That is a very important consideration for count accuracy. Where we differ from all other counting systems is our use of PC computers and a commercially available digital interface so that we can monitor several colonies with a single computer processor. Because seven hives at a single location yield 10 MgB of data per day, we need a fairly good computer, minimally a 75 MgHz 486 with 500 MgB of storage and 8 MgB of memory. A Pentium machine is even better. The computer has to have an enhanced, bi-directional parallel port. Serial ports are just too slow, as are most of the commercially available digital interfaces. (And watch the manufacturer specifications - many make exaggerated claims - we bought and sent back several systems). We sample at rates up to 200/second. Multiple 2 detectors per entrance portal, 14 portals per counter, and seven to ten counters per site, and you get an idea of the data flow. The good news is that the electronic components for the counters are readily available and inexpensive, and many beekeepers already have a PC. So, if you are handy, have access to woodworking or metalworking tools, can solder, and read a circuit diagram - you can build one of our units. I don't have a ready answer for an inexpensive substitute for the high speed parallel interface. It costs as much as the computer. Because the interface is modular, it is easily expanded to monitor more hives. The cost of monitoring ten hives is only about 25% more than for monitoring one hive. The major costs of our system are the computer and interface, not the counter electronics. Most Bee-L subscribers already have one part of the system - a PC. If you are willing to accept general activity patterns rather than real-time counts and only need to monitor one or two hives, you can purchase a simpler A-bus interface. (The A-bus system can be obtained for 1/4 the cost of our parallel port interface). Our system is designed to plug into IBM-compatible PCs. Bruce King, a UM graduate student, who designed the counter electronics is a MacIntosh fan. But he couldn't find a digital interface for the Mac that would meet the data flow requirements. In the near future, I will publish some of our counter results to our Web site. In the meantime, I hope this answer some questions. At present, we are hard pressed to make enough to keep up with our research needs. We haven't seriously considered manufacturing these systems. Common sense suggests that these units are still too expensive for the average beekeeper or bee club and that even if we could make an inexpensive system, there wouldn't be much demand. Cheers Jerry J. Bromenshenk jjbmail@selway.umt.edu The University of Montana-Missoula http://grizzly.umt.edu/biology/bees ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Sep 1996 19:57:48 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Joel Govostes Subject: Re: End of Honey Season Even ... with fume boards there is no great disruption >and flying about. There is no robbing, no fighting among the bees, no >stinging of the beekeeper. One caution, however: the weather must be warm. >In cool weather, the bees will not move, even with the boards. > >Ted Fischer Ted -Are you using Benzaldehyde, or Butyric anhydride (Bee-Go / Honey Robber)? I have had mixed results, (my experience is mostly with the former), from cleared supers - to bees hardly moving down at all - to stupefied bees running all over in chaos. Have you had good results consistently, without tainting the aroma of the honey, & what is the most effective procedure? I was concerned at the confusion the fumes caused sometimes. Any info appreciated -- JWG ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Sep 1996 21:43:49 +0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: George_Willy Subject: Crystalized Honey Comments: cc: jmontgom@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu Janet Montgomery: It has been my experience that whenever I have crystalized honey or equipment with honey on it,or old comb with honey in it, I just leave it in the yard. The bees will clean it up in no time. Don't let the honey pool up or you will kill a lot of bees by drowning or suffication. Course saw dust or a paper towel floating keeps the bees from getting their legs stuck in the honey. You can also place the frames and hive body back on a colony for the bees to clean up, however they may start to refill those empty cells with fall aster and goldenrod or sugar syrup if your feeding them. There should also be a water source close by for them to reconstitute the crystal. George from the Northeast Kingdom of Vermont. e-mail - villginn@plainfield.bypass.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Sep 1996 22:02:57 +0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: George_Willy Subject: Bee it a small world isn't it Comments: cc: tpeters@KingCon.com Tim Yes I am that George From East Burke. Don't know you I think, but glad to meet you. My bees are doing great. Better than I could possibly expect. I'm not taking any honey off this year. Divided extensively this year and sharing what I've got with the girls. The local bee meeting is starting back up and would love to have you attend. 7:00pm Vermont Extension service at the east end of Fairbanks building, Rt 2 St. Johnsbury. Hope to see you there, George From the beautiful Northeast Kingdom of Vermont. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 4 Sep 1996 01:37:10 GMT Reply-To: Tim_Sterrett@westtown.edu Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Tim Sterrett Organization: Westtown School Subject: Removing honey >Ted -Are you using Benzaldehyde, or Butyric anhydride (Bee-Go / Honey >Robber)? I have had mixed results, (my experience is mostly with the >former), from cleared supers - to bees hardly moving down at all - to >stupefied bees running all over in chaos. Have you had good results >consistently, without tainting the aroma of the honey, & what is the most >effective procedure? I was concerned at the confusion the fumes caused >sometimes. Any info appreciated -- JWG For hives in partial shade in early August, using benzaldehyde on shallow supers: give the bees in the top super a few puffs of smoke to start them down, then leave the fume board on for five minutes, take a super off and put the fume board back on for the next five minutes. Tim Sterrett Westtown, (Southeastern) Pennsylvania, USA tim_sterrett@westtown.edu ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Sep 1996 23:16:35 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Paul Cronshaw, D.C." Subject: Fume boards vs Escape Boards In my year 25 experience, removing (Robbing) honey has always been a chore. In the past I have tried everything from brushing the individual frames to using my scuba tank's pressurized air to blow the bees out of the supers. This season, I tried one of the Escape boards from Brushy Mountain. I was amazed at how quickly the bees moved out of the 4 supers. In 12 hours, I was able to pop the cover, find not a single bee in each of the 4 supers, and quickly remove them without disturbing the brood chambers. After extracting the honey (averaged 65 pounds this year per hive), I put the supers back on over a queen excluder for clean up. Two days passed, put the Escape board back on. Next day removed the cleaned supers to store for winter. I have tried Fume boards with mixed success. S. Calif. sun gets really hot. Putting a fume board on hive with 4 supers and a queen excluder can really send a hive into a frenzy and drive the bees right out of the front entrance. Plus the idea of using another chemical in my hives flies against my approach to drug free beekeeping and untainted honey. Granted the Fume board may be useful for larger apiaries, but for most hobby beekeepers less than 10 hives, I recommend an Escape Board. Paul Cronshaw DC Cyberchiro Hobby Beekeeper Santa Barbara, CA Date: Tue, 3 Sep 1996 13:21:14 -0400 From: Ted Fischer Subject: Re: End of Honey Season Even REGARDING RE>End of Honey Season Events Doug Henry wrote: "Normally when I remove full supers I tip them on their side and wait for bees to leave and then I take the full supers to area where i do my exr\tracting. Generally this is uneventful. This weekend however it was not so easy. The removed supers were quickly set upon by hordes of bees from other colonies. I had to put them under shelter before all the honey was stolen. I took advantage of this by putting out a super of old honey I had from last year that didn't get extracted for some reason. When I checked it tonight it was completely empty. I noticed a lot of wax powder and dead bees around the super. I assume the wax debris is from removed cappings. I'm puzzeled by the dead bees. Could this be a result of inter-colony fighting? " I think that your method of removing bees can often lend itself to the sort of experiences you just reported. Perhaps in the middle of a good honey flow you could get away with this, but I feel it is a poor management practice in general. Try instead using fume boards. For many years I resisted the use of fume boards, but now have become a real convert. If the weather is at all warm, fume boards will clear out 90-100% of the bees in about 3 minutes. The rest can easily be blown out with a bee blower, if necessary. I can remove honey supers and stack them on my truck as fast as I am able, without getting the bees upset in the least, or stimulating robbing. Even though the supers are temporarily open on the truck, the bees never even notice them, because with fume boards there is no great disruption and flying about. There is no robbing, no fighting among the bees, no stinging of the beekeeper. One caution, however: the weather must be warm. In cool weather, the bees will not move, even with the boards. Ted Fischer ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 4 Sep 1996 19:41:29 +1000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Bruce Laidlaw Subject: Re: Multimedia Software >Does any one know of any multimedia software about bees and beekeeping? > >I belong to a beekeeping group that often has visits from local schools etc. >I want to try using some multimedia packages for this sort of thing. > >The only ones I know of are a few short segments in Encarta and Dangerous >Creatures. >Neither of these snippets is long enough to be counted and one of them >distorts the truth to the poiont that I would not use it. However they >do show what is possible. > >If you can recommend any, please let me know where I can find it. > >email > callen@msp.masterpack.com.au >snailmail > Chris Allen, 7 Waratah St, Canterbury, 2193, Australia >Regards > >Chris Allen Hi Chris, (Esteemed Secretary) :) Actually, what you *can* do, without any expense, is to put copies of some web pages onto the computer, as well as a copy of Netscape (which is free for education). For example, this page here: <Bee Alert! of The University of Montana-Missoula

Kids' Corner

Honey Bee Trivia

Games & Puzzles

Coloring Book

Honey Bee Pictures

Buzzy's Favorite Sites



BEE ALERT! if you copy and save the above as a text file, then open it with Netscape or another browser, it will open just like a web page. (This page is at: http://grizzly.umt.edu/biology/bees/kid.htm). Of course, you also have to save the photos and companion pages with the correct names, but that's not too hard to do. It would be possible to build up quite a nice little collection of bee stuff from the World Wide Web, have it on the computer, and then let the kids see it without having to connect to the net every time. I would hope the University of Montana might be pleased to have its page used this way?? We'd have to ask them. (And of course we'd have to fix the spelling of 'color' and 'favorite' while we're at it. Isn't English crazy?) :) Bruce :) ------------------------------------------------- \ Bruce Laidlaw / \ Head Teacher / \ Foundation Studies / \ East Sydney College of TAFE / \ (Technical & Further Education) / \ Darlinghurst / \ New South Wales / \ Australia 2010 / \ +61-2-9569-2854 (h) 9339-8648 (w) / \ http://pip.com.au/~abestuds/ / ================================================ (\ /) {|||8- Beekeeper -8|||} (/ \) ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 4 Sep 1996 07:04:35 +0100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Sid Pullinger Subject: Clean honey <<>>> I trust the above was written in a spirit of fun. If in any way serious I would advise Ann to invest in queen excluders and keep supers for honey and brood combs for brood. The fact remains that many beekeepers do extract from combs that have been bred in. Such combs do attract wax moth and if moths have been or are present then the honey extracted will contain moth and bee larva excrement. No doubt quite harmless from a health point of view but the honey can hardly be described as pure. I have never understood the often quoted description of excluders as honey excluders. My bees, and those of all my acquaintances, appear to have no difficulty in passing through them with their surplus nectar. Combs that have been used for brood are very difficult to store as they so easily attract wax moth. Super combs used only for honey present no problem and need no PDB. Eggs laid in them cannot reach maturity because of lack of protein. Sid P. I was sorry to hear of the passing of Brother Adam. A humble monk who spent his life in a monastery in rural England but who won world-wide acclaim and respect for his work on bee breeding. _________________________________________________________________ Sid Pullinger Email : sidpul@aladdin.co.uk 36, Grange Rd Compuserve: 100343.1216@compuserve.com Alresford Hants SO24 9HF England ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 4 Sep 1996 07:48:39 -0600 Reply-To: allend@internode.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Allen Dick Organization: The Beekeepers Subject: Re: Fume boards vs Escape Boards > In my year 25 experience, removing (Robbing) honey has always been a > chore. > > In the past I have tried everything from brushing the individual > frames to using my scuba tank's pressurized air to blow the bees out > of the supers. > I have tried Fume boards with mixed success. S. Calif. sun gets > really hot. Putting a fume board on hive with 4 supers and a queen > excluder can really send a hive into a frenzy and drive the bees > right out of the front entrance. > > Plus the idea of using another chemical in my hives flies against my > approach to drug free beekeeping and untainted honey. I have to agree. We've had a report on BEE-L recently of escape boards failing to work. I've never experiencedany problems whatsoever (as long as I got the boards right side up) , and have to attribute the problem to using them on overly crowded hives or at a time when the bees were not mobile (clustered?). Fume Boards The chemicals available for fume boards these days are butyric anhydride and benzaldehyde -- at least in North America. Carbolic acid was previously used for many years without problems, but is no longer permitted, even though, apparently it is amjor ingredient in cough drops. Benzaldehyde is 'artificail oil of almonds', and has a most pleasant smell. In concentration, I doubt you would want to breathe it all day or wear it on your skin, but it seems pretty benign. Unfortunately it does not work reliably in many differnt conditions and we gave up on it long ago. Butyric anhydride (Bee Go or Honey Robber) is a really pungent material. I will not allow it in my building -- even for a minute, in case it spills. Boxes removed with it smell like dog feces long after and any honey house where they are extracted smells bad. The user soon gets used to the smell, and only visitors notice it, but it gets in your hair and your clothes. Honey Robber has a cherry oversmell, but as one commercial beekeeper says: " the only difference is that it smells like _cherry flavoured_ dog shit". In the field, butyric anhydride works *almost* as well as carbolic used to, however I personally am choked by the fumes no matter where I stand. It's not the smell, but the fumes actually hurt my bronchia. (If I were a hobyist, and not selling to any large market, frankly I'd get some carbolic and use it. It's the best. But do not use it if you are selling honey). Using fume board chemicals requires at least average intelligence and careful handling); never place the open container on top of a beehive that is open -- it might tip. Apply the chemical sparingly and make sure that it is on the cloth and soaked in, not sitting in drops on the wood, waiting to drip on your top bars as soon as you invert the board. Use smoke to start the bees, and of course, make sure the bees are not in a cluster, but moving freely in the hive and responsive to smoke. Bee Escapes All in all, for comb honey production, we found the triangle bee escapes to be reliable and had the advantage of leaving the burr comb in the supers clean and non-drippy. In a hurry, we have used fume boards, but a bee blower --with or without abandonment (tipping) was the fastest. Abandonment (Tipping) The abandonment method also leaves the burr comb free of dripping honey, and having a blower allows one to take the boxes within the hour in case robbing is likely, or an extra trip would be required. Abandonment is the very best method, but it is an expert method and requires some considerable expertise. It is not normally suitable for most beginner or intermediate beekeepers because they cannot recognise the difference between bees leaving, and robbing bees, and cannot understand the conditions -- seasonal, and weather related --that determine exactly how the procedure must be accomplished (there are many tricks). Having said that, however, a knowlegeable commercial operator can look out the window in the morning and send a crew of trained labourers out to tip without too many worries. Tipping can be used in both flow and robbing conditions without loss or contamination of honey, and with minimum disturbance to the bees. It is our primary means of removing honey, but we always carry a blower. Blowers Blowers come in may guises, from the home vacuum cleaner in reverse mode to the Huskvarna and Stihl two stroke 'big mothers' that aproach 200 MPH air speeds. We use the latter, but seldom turn them up all the way. The top speeds are for partly empty combs on cool days -- days when the bees should actually be left alone, but there are a few boxes that have to be cleaned out and we are 60 miles from home on a Friday afternoon. We don't turn them up because if we do, the bees are blown up in our faces instead of thu the top bars, and there is a risk of damaging bees with too much force. BTW, we blow from the bottom of the box to the top, since the frames can be moved easily by their bottoms -- like leafing thru a book. Under some circumstances, we blow down through a box that is still on the hive before removing it. Temperature must be considered when doing this. Leaf blowers are a cheap and ubiquitous alternative to specialised bee blowers. They are adequate for most (95% of all) jobs, and we carry one as back up blower for when our main blowers fail. They are not as rugged as the big ones, but they do last well -- even being trucked around the country. I like to put 15 feet of 2-1/2 inch hose on my blowers and set them far from the bees -- and me. If they are close to the hives, bees can get into the air intakes and gum everything up (we screen the intakes and the motors). If they are near me, I go nuts from the noise, and my helpers get tired of being shouted at (over the racket). My son wears the Stihl like a knapsack -- it is designed for that -- and uses the trigger to rev it only when needed. So, as you can see there are different tastes in this. A blower is very useful if you misjudge how fast the bees will abandon your boxes and they are still full of bees when you are ready to load, or if there is a patch of brood in a super, and the bees have not left. Well, I'm out of time. I hope this clarifies some of the choices available. Regards Allen W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper VE6CFK RR#1, Swalwell, Alberta Canada T0M 1Y0 Internet:dicka@cuug.ab.ca & allend@internode.net Honey. Bees, & Art ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 4 Sep 1996 04:08:00 GMT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Andy Nachbaur Organization: WILD BEE'S BBS (209) 826-8107 LOS BANOS, CA Subject: Re: Fascinating Facts about bees IW>From: Ian Watson >Date: Tue, 3 Sep 1996 13:11:07 -0400 >Subject: Re: Fascinating Facts about bees IW>On Mon, 2 Sep 1996, Allen Dick wrote: >Gee.....I thought this list was about sharing information and helping each >other.....not shooting holes in other people's posts......sheesh! Hi Ian, I don't think Allen or anyone else was trying to put you down. There is one thing we all learn in time about e-mail and that is to read it if you can without any passion, as there is really no way to tell if the poster is trying to be an horse's rear or it's just his style of using the king's English. And always remember one man can not make a fool of another, it's up to each of us to do that job for ourselves. You may have know the correct details of all the bee facts you posted, but many of us have seen later or different detail and would want to correct the record. We all do it, as we experience the real world of beekeeping, its a human condition. No one was yanking on your chain, and you should not feel defensive when someone expresses a different opinion. Almost 50 years ago when I knew it all, my first science project was to rear a couple of queens, hatch them in the science lab and put them together under a glass to watch them fight it out as every book on the subject to this day say's is the Bee Scientific LAW. Everything went according to the best written knowledge, the day came for them to hatch, they came into the light of day happy, healthy virgin queens with me the proud foster parent. The WHOLE WORLD had gathered to watch the duel to the death. I removed the two prized virgin queens from the nursery cages and placed them under the glass and stood back in a hushed room full of amazed classmates, friends, and teachers to watch the bloody royal battle........!!! I got a A-, but for sure these two queens were my first experience with gay bees or gay's of any kind as all they wanted to do is make love and never made any attempt to harm each other and nothing I then could do changed that. Well since then I have learned a lot of the tricks of the trade and now know how to age the queens and even cheat a little and bring in a ringer from a different bank with a different hive oder or a different age queen, or if all else fails to add a little sting hormone to the mix. So if asked I would say that when a hive has more then one queen they normally will fight it out and one will be left to rule. But even this is not true today in the field and it is not uncommon to find hives with two or more queens and yes I have seen hives with two queens laying good patterns of brood on separate sides of the same frame. I have also learned the difference between bee science (BS) and real science, and I would not bet my life on bee science as most of the stated rules, published facts, and even real works of scientific composition are more the journalist's art then science. If it was the same in medicine, chemistry, or engineering we would have all died long ago from some plague, chemical, or in the office or store so many work in when the first puff of wind blew the building down on our heads. Must beekeeping science is based on opinion that more times then not does not turn out to be the truth, if not all the bees in the US would bee dead or in the attack mode killing tens of thousands as they move across natural barriers that even man can't cross. But then bees can fly 35 miles per hours and on one fill up have no problem making 15 miles on a few hundredths of an once of fuel, or can they or do they? BTW Queens do sting, they have a stinger without barbs so they can sock it too you repeated times and it hurts on tender tissue such as the inside of the mouth. QUEENS SHOULD NEVER BE CARRIED INSIDE THE MOUTH! And especially eight of ten young mated queens at a time, as they do sting and it hurts and it's hard to spit out those $5 bills and risk harming them or having them fly back to the nucs and having to catch them next go around. I won't bore all again with the details of how I came to do such unsophisticated bee tests, but it was not for science, had more to do with the fun of being a commercial beekeeper in a commercial beekeeping community, a hot late spring afternoon and helping an old friend catch queens. Maybe those queens beekeepers find once in awhile with what looks like bites taken out of them are from other old bee breeders who carry their extra queens around in their mouths? But for sure queen bees normally do not sting people, and even many bee breeders have never been stung by a queen bee, but they can sting. Same as the so called stingless bees such as the leaf cutters..but that's another story, the "killer leaf cutter bees" that I will save for another time. ttul OLd Drone (c) Permission is granted to freely copy this document in any form, or to print for any use. (w)Opinions are not necessarily facts. Use at own risk. --- ~ QMPro 1.53 ~ "Where there is honey, there are beekeepers" ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 4 Sep 1996 10:26:16 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ted Fischer Subject: Re: End of Honey Season REGARDING RE>End of Honey Season Joel Govostes wrote, in a reply to my previous post: "Are you using Benzaldehyde, or Butyric anhydride (Bee-Go / Honey Robber)? I have had mixed results, (my experience is mostly with the former), from cleared supers - to bees hardly moving down at all - to stupefied bees running all over in chaos. Have you had good results consistently, without tainting the aroma of the honey, & what is the most effective procedure? I was concerned at the confusion the fumes caused sometimes. Any info appreciated" I have only used butyric anhydride (Bee-Go). I have never had any problem with the fumes tainting the honey, but this was a concern that prevented me from trying fume boards for many years. It is important to shave off any burr comb on top of the top bars which might come anywhere close to touching the fume board surface. As I said earlier, the major impediment to the bees movement away from the fumes is cool weather. Another is excessive brace comb filling the spaces between frame top bars. This seems to act as a fume barrier. These supers (usually the top ones) have to be blown out with the bee blower. My procedure, upon reaching my yard, is to apply Bee-Go around the edges of the fume boards and a few back and forth strokes across their centers. I usually use four boards, and put their interiors together while starting the smoker and getting set up for super removal. Upon opening the hive, I smoke under the inner cover enough to get the bees moving downward; then I put the board on and move to the next hive. After the four boards are in place I immediately go back to the first and remove the super, which rarely has any bees remaining. If it does, I set it on end and blow them out, then place the super on the truck and get the one from the next hive. Mine is a one man operation, and the fumes empty the supers as fast as I can carry them away. Ted Fischer ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 4 Sep 1996 11:03:20 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: David Eyre Subject: Re: bee tight suits >I have what started out to be a tight bee jacket. But I goofed. It arrived >without washing instructions from England. Unfortuneately I put it in a >electric dryer. Don't >make my mistake. The veil became embrittled and crackedso thatthe bees could >get >into my face. I replaced the veil with appropriate material but notbeing a >tailor or skilledwith sewing. some of the veil was too close to my face. My >bees landed me >some pretty mean bites. Then I used a breathable polyester lab suit and found >that the bees coould jab through it any my blue jeans. > >If you order a bee-proof suit make sure that the distributor stands behind >the product. We do stand behind our products, and we issue washing instructions with each suit!! If you would care to contact us direct, as a UK agent for two suit manufacturers we will see what we can do to correct your problem . **************************************************** * David Eyre 9 Progress Drive, Unit 2, * * The Beeworks, Orillia, Ontario, L3V 6H1. * * beeworks@muskoka.net 705-326-7171 * * http://www.muskoka.net/~beeworks * * Agents for: E H Thorne & B J Sherriff UK. * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 4 Sep 1996 11:04:18 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: David Eyre Subject: Re: Virgin Queen? > Tim Peters wrote. > What are your considered opinions? > > Do I have a virgin? > > If so, what should I do now? Wait for supercedure? or send for > another queen? Should I wait awhile longer and see what develops? > I don't want to wait too long, as Fall is upon us up here. IMHO you do have a virgin, especially when you say how small she was. Size is really not a factor, but a laying queen will be longer in the abdomen, and only when she has been laying. There is no point in waiting. If she was in her original hive there would be a possibility she would go out to mate, but that is not the case. >From my experience one she has been 'taken' then she won't develop. This is symptomatic of a breeder who works from numbers. This date they emerge, this date they mate, this date they will be ready. This approach is fine until the weather fouls up, or until that virgin decides that her time hasn't come. Then of course you get an unmated virgin, or worse an incompete mating. My advice, don't 'push' your breeder let him take his time, to give you well mated queens. **************************************************** * David Eyre 9 Progress Drive, Unit 2, * * The Beeworks, Orillia, Ontario, L3V 6H1. * * beeworks@muskoka.net 705-326-7171 * * http://www.muskoka.net/~beeworks * * Agents for: E H Thorne & B J Sherriff UK. * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 4 Sep 1996 11:04:22 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: David Eyre Subject: Re: Drone Foundation Source & MORE >There is no doubt that drone rearing can also be varroa rearing. > >Pet subject. Shall look some more ? Hi Dave, Thank you for the info. When Varroa hits we will have to change our approach. But as a queen breeder it will cause problems to cut back our drone production. Regards Dave..... ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 4 Sep 1996 13:10:50 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jim Moore Subject: Q: Why lots of bees outside the hive after robbing extracted supers? I didn't want to put my supers away wet, so I decided to stack them and let the bees do the job of cleaning them. The stack had a cover and had a reduced entrance. The bottom board was a double screen with a small adjustable entry. One of the supers had some unripe honey that I didn't extract. I had removed this super to reduce a hive down to 2 deeps and a medium. The first thing I noticed was that only bees from a single hive were allowed to enter by the other bees around the entrance. Wasps and bees from other hives were discouraged. It seems that with the reduced entrance the war was quickly over and the robbing proceeded in an orderly fashion. The robbers were from one of my hives. The hive had been reduced to 2 deeps with the removal of the extracted super. Last night, day 2, I noticed 1000's of bees on the landing board and the front of the hive. More than I had ever seen before even of hot humid nights. This hive is not my strongest. It had never had more bees than my strongest hive outside the entrance until now. No such mass of bees occurred on day 1 of the clean up. My question is why so many bee outside now? The weather is cool and dry. I'm assuming the honey that was robbed does not need much evaporation so ventilation should not be a major issue. My quess is that the hive had run out of space and the bees might be loaded and waiting for unloading room. I added one of the extracted supers just in case it was a space problem. However, this is what I was trying to avoid when I didn't replace the super originally. Does anyone have any insights? Am I courting disaster with this approach? Thanks, Jim Moore moore@aiag.enet.dec.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 4 Sep 1996 13:37:15 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ian Watson Subject: Re: Fascinating Facts about bees In-Reply-To: <960904071726423@beenet.com> On Wed, 4 Sep 1996, Andy Nachbaur wrote: > IW>From: Ian Watson > >Date: Tue, 3 Sep 1996 13:11:07 -0400 > >Subject: Re: Fascinating Facts about bees > > IW>On Mon, 2 Sep 1996, Allen Dick wrote: > > >Gee.....I thought this list was about sharing information and helping each > >other.....not shooting holes in other people's posts......sheesh! > > > Hi Ian, I don't think Allen or anyone else was trying to put you down. > There is one thing we all learn in time about e-mail and that is to > read it if you can without any passion, as there is really no way to > tell if the poster is trying to be an horse's rear or it's just his > style of using the king's English. And always remember one man can not > make a fool of another, it's up to each of us to do that job for > ourselves. > ttul OLd Drone Ummmm....... Just to clarify things....I didnt posts that information about bees......the quote you have above is from ME...not Allan... I was just responding to Allan's response....I cant remember the Author... Ian Watson iwatson@freenet.npiec.on.ca ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 4 Sep 1996 10:45:25 PDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Adrian Wenner Subject: Re: Fascinating Facts about bees A further comment about the following statement: > >Gee.....I thought this list was about sharing information and helping each > >other.....not shooting holes in other people's posts......sheesh! In response to the above comment, Andy Nachbauer wrote an extensive reply, to which I concur. Honey bees and their colonies are marvelous phenomena, about which many myths and half truths get perpetuated from generation to generation. We can regale the public with innumerable quality items about their life history --- and keep it as accurate as possible. The beauty of e-mail exchanges is that hundreds can become educated all at once about some items that have been passed on as "truth" for far too long --- that is, an exchange of this sort IS "sharing information and helping each other." An example outside the world of bees: The idea that some flies could travel as fast as 880 miles per hour lasted a full decade in the 1930s, until a chemist illustrated the nonsense of that so-called "fact." Yet, just a couple of years ago I found that very item treated as news in a local newspaper (a "filler" someone had pulled from the files). One problem: People all too often ask others what they think of one report or another instead of reading and digesting the original material for themselves. (The news media lately seems particularly guilty on this matter.) Adrian *************************************************************** * Adrian Wenner E-Mail wenner@lifesci.lscf.ucsb.edu * * Dept.Ecol.,Evol.,& Mar.Biol. Office Phone (805) 893-2838 * * University of California Lab Phone (805) 893-2675 * * Santa Barbara, CA 93106 FAX (805) 893-8062 * * * *************************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 4 Sep 1996 10:55:04 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: QueenBJan@aol.com Subject: Hurricane Fran -- pray for the bees As the possibility of getting hit by Hurricane Fran grows by the hour we reflect on the damage that my husband's (Pollinator) bees suffered after Hurricane Hugo seven years ago. It seems that the real losses to his bees weren't from the wind and the rain. Rather the losses came from the mosquito spraying followed by waxworms which ate up all the good comb after the bees were killed off. Therefore, we encourage all of you who are so inclined to pray for the bees in the areas that will be hit. I offer this prayer for consideration: Father God, We acknowledge that this Hurricane is only one small part of your creation. But in spite of ourselves and our limited faith, we tremble in fear when we find ourselves in it's path. Protect us with your hand, your feathers, or your angels. Protect, too, your bees. Be in the thinking of those who would work on behalf of the suffering people after the hurricane. Cause those who will be spraying for mosquitoes to remember the importance of the bees and make them mindful of the safe times to spray so the bees will be protected. And where humankind fails, please intervene on behalf of our bees. We are too willing to stand in fear of your power in the face of the hurricane, yet forget that you have just as much power to protect. You are not a powerless God. We stand in awe. Amen. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 4 Sep 1996 12:32:16 -0600 Reply-To: allend@internode.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Allen Dick Organization: The Beekeepers Subject: Re: Fascinating Facts about bees > > 12. Beekeepers don't get Arthritis or Cancer ( I would like to > > get a reference on this one) > > Me too, because this is easily proven false. > > There is quite surely some truth to the beliefs that bee stings are > beneficial in some types of arthritis. Less likely IMO is the less > commonbelief that beekeeping may have some inhibiting effects on > some cancers. > > Just ask any beekeeper how his back is, or if he knows of a > beekeeper who had cancer, and the falacy of this becomes obvious. > > How many beekeepers on this list have arthritis or cancer? > > I have some arthritis. Don't know about cancer... (Hope not). > I'm still waiting for a relpy on this, because out of 500 or so beekeepers on this list, I should think that odds are very high that someone has cancer of some sort. Prostate, breast and skin cancers are very common, and yet, so far, no one has volunteered any info. Does this mean that the above 'fact' is true for this group? Hardly seems likely. Please email me personally a short note about your personal or close experience with beekeepers and either disease, and I will compile results (leaving the individuals' names off)- and report to the list. BTW, it was not my intent to hurt anyone with my questioning of these 'facts'. In fact, I laced my comments liberally with smilies to demonstrate clearly -- I had hoped at least -- good will. Regards Allen W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper VE6CFK RR#1, Swalwell, Alberta Canada T0M 1Y0 Internet:dicka@cuug.ab.ca & allend@internode.net Honey. Bees, & Art ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 4 Sep 1996 13:05:51 -0600 Reply-To: allend@internode.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Allen Dick Organization: The Beekeepers Subject: Re: Fascinating Facts about bees > Please email me personally a short note about your personal or close > experience with beekeepers and either disease, and I will compile > results (leaving the individuals' names off)- and report to the > list. I forgot to mention that I'd appreciate knowing how many hives the stricken person has kept and for how long, since this might have a bearing on any beneficial effects that are experienced -- or not. TIA Regards Allen W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper VE6CFK RR#1, Swalwell, Alberta Canada T0M 1Y0 Internet:dicka@cuug.ab.ca & allend@internode.net Honey. Bees, & Art ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 4 Sep 1996 16:37:42 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ray Lackey Subject: transmitter on bee Can someone provide a reference or contact for the British radio transmitter on a bee. Thanks in advance. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ + Raymond J. Lackey, EAS Master Beekeeper, Pres LIBC + + Twelve years exper with 25 colonies on Long Island, NY+ + INTERNET: lackeyr@hazeltine.com + + Mail: 1260 Walnut Avenue, Bohemia NY 11617-2176 + + Home Phone: 516-567-1936 FAX: 516-262-8053 + ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 4 Sep 1996 14:49:34 -0700 Reply-To: uc779@freenet.victoria.bc.ca Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Conrad A. Berube" Subject: Re: Fascinating Facts about bees >Gee.....I thought this list was about sharing information and >helping each other.....not shooting holes in other people's >posts......sheesh! _I_ thought the idea was to share _information_-- not misinformation. I believe Alan Dick's post straightened out some of the inaccuracies of the post he was addressing. The thread he was following, after all, referred to "facts" not hearsay-- there are, after all, some things in beekeeping that _are_ facts and not the matters of opinion that we contentious lot of beekeepers so love to natter about ;-) - Conrad Berube " ` ISLAND CROP MANAGEMENT " ` 2620 Queenswood Dr. _- -_`-_|'\ /` Victoria, B.C. _/ / / -' `~()() V8N 1X5 \_\ _ /\-._/\/ (604)477-5220; fax (604)656-8922 / | | email: uc779@freenet.victoria.bc.ca '` ^ ^ website: http://vvv.com/~bwarner/ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 4 Sep 1996 14:54:05 -0700 Reply-To: uc779@freenet.victoria.bc.ca Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Conrad A. Berube" Subject: new web site (info on KTBH, cultural entomology, etc) While I'm posting I might as well mention that I finally got around to putting up a website that may be of interest to some folks. Some of the contents and addresses: http://pinc.com/~bwarner/5garudi.htm links to "How the Honeybee Got her Hum,"_American Bee Journal,March 1994 (my retelling of a children's story, in verse, with notes regarding beekeeping in the orient) http://pinc.com/~bwarner/beestars.htm links to "The Bee-Riddled Carcass,"_Griffith Observer: Journal of the Griffith Observatory,_July 1991 (an article originally published in an astronomy journal regarding the ox-born bee and Samson myths and there connection to astronomical calendars and constellations) http://pinc.com/~bwarner/belfry.htm links to "Bees in the Belfry; American Bee Journal, July 1989 (about my first experience with [africanized] bees and the Kenya Top Bar Hive http://pinc.com/~bwarner/ktbh.htm links to "The Kenya Top-Bar Hive as a Better Hive in Developing Countries," _American Bee Journal,_ August 1989 (about the advantages of the Kenya Top Bar Hive in some circumstances [plans included in a graphical link]) There's also some comics and short essays: http://pinc.com/~bwarner/ladybird.htm links to a comic and a short essay about ladybugs http://pinc.com/~bwarner/leps.htm links to a comic and a short essay about the movie "Silence of the Lambs" http://pinc.com/~bwarner/planet.htm links to a comic and a short essay about movies about giant insects http://pinc.com/~bwarner/critic.htm links to a comic and a short essay about insect communication (particularly amongst crickets) http://pinc.com/~bwarner/antroid.htm links to a comic and a short essay about the root of the word "arthropod" http://pinc.com/~bwarner/oz.htm links to a comic and a short essay about insect communication http://pinc.com/~bwarner/peas.htm links to a comic and a short essay about plants genetically manipulated to produce their own insecticide http://pinc.com/~bwarner/scorpio.htm links to a comic and a short essay about insect constellations Bee well (but bee accurate), - Conrad Berube " ` ISLAND CROP MANAGEMENT " ` 2620 Queenswood Dr. _- -_`-_|'\ /` Victoria, B.C. _/ / / -' `~()() V8N 1X5 \_\ _ /\-._/\/ (604)477-5220; fax (604)656-8922 / | | email: uc779@freenet.victoria.bc.ca '` ^ ^ website: http://vvv.com/~bwarner/ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 4 Sep 1996 16:16:47 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jerry J Bromenshenk Subject: Re: Multimedia Software In-Reply-To: <199609040935.TAA23552@pip2.pip.com.au> from "Bruce Laidlaw" at Sep 4, 96 07:41:29 pm Thanks for the plug. We work with lots of schools and one of our goals is to take Web page based materials and put them on classroom computers in just the way that you described. Many of our rural schools do not have Internet connections. As you pointed out, you can simply click and save the text part of the code, click on the pictures with the right mouse button, and pull the page down. For our page, everything will work except the external link to our Smithsonian Medal. That still takes a bit of time. For some pages, like Virtual Frog, the web system is so fragmented, it is almost impossible. Pages that use frames and Java scripts may also present a challenge - the scripts are often hidden in unaccessible directories on the Server. However, at least for the University of Montana page, there is a much easier answer. All of our Web page files reside in a single directory. We could place them on an ftp site, or we could send it to you on floppies. Because it is a large page (several Megs), it may be easier and faster to send it by floppy. I don't have funds to copy and mail floppies all over the world, but for a donation sufficient to cover our costs, we could do this. If you are interested in getting a copy of our page, let us know. And again, thanks for the recognition of our site. Jerry Bromenshenk jjbmail@selway.umt.edu http://grizzly.umt.edu/biology/bees ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 5 Sep 1996 00:15:30 GMT Reply-To: phoenix@aug.com Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Stanton A Hershman Organization: Phoenix Subject: Re: bee tight suits In-Reply-To: <199609041504.LAA17166@segwun.muskoka.net> On Wed, 4 Sep 1996 11:03:20 -0400, you muttered something about: >We do stand behind our products, and we issue washing instructions with each >suit!! If you would care to contact us direct, as a UK agent for two >suit manufacturers we will see what we can do to correct your problem very nice gesture. i am impressed. stanton INTERNET: phoenix@aug.com WEBPAGE: userpages.aug.com/phoenix MADNESS TAKES ITS TOLL. PLEASE HAVE EXACT CHANGE. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 4 Sep 1996 20:35:04 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Bill Miller Subject: Re: Bee Go Maybe butric anhydride (Bee Go or Honey Robber) won't get into honey, but the stink will get into the cappings. I once made a Fair wax block from cappings taken off with Honey Robber, and when the block was unwrapped at the Fair it stunk of butric Anhydride (and the block was appropriately penalized by the judge). I now use benzaldehyde, and have had no problems with strange smells in my wax or honey. W. G. Miller Gaithersburg, MD ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 4 Sep 1996 17:50:29 -0700 Reply-To: uc779@freenet.victoria.bc.ca Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Conrad A. Berube" Subject: web page II Sorry about eating up bandwidth but hindsight is such a wonderful thing (as are the suggestions of bee-liners)... One of the recipients of my recent post mentioned that I might have made it easier on those interested if I'd mentioned that links to all the beekeeping articles are linked to my personal page (about midway down under the "Publications" heading). That address is http://pinc.com/~bwarner/resume.htm. Alternatively you can save this posting and use the "open file" function of your browser and follow the links below as you would click on any web page. Conrad's personal page (bee stuff is under "Recent Publications and Presentations") Some of the contents and addresses: "How the Honeybee Got her Hum"
"The Bee-Riddled Carcass"
"Bees in the Belfry"
"The Kenya Top-Bar Hive as a Better Hive in Developing Countries"
Cartoons and short essays (linked as "comics" on resume page) about: ladybugs
"Silence of the Lambs"
movies about giant insects
insect communication (particularly amongst crickets)
the root of the word "arthropod"
insect communication
plants genetically manipulated to produce their own insecticide
arthropod constellations
Conrad ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 5 Sep 1996 06:09:28 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Gerard Worrell Subject: Re: beekeepers with cancer In-Reply-To: <199609050431.AAA03996@cbl.cees.edu> Allen Dick had asked for comments on beekeepers with cancer. Yes, I have recently had to have my prostate removed (dec. '95) due to cancer. I have been keeping bees for 24 years and have been liberally stung during that time. In our bee association we did do an informal poll and found a lower level of cholesterol for those that knew it. This poll was based on a comment made during a presentation on apiotherapy that one of the components of bee venom could lower cholesterol. Jerry Gerard P.Worrell Beekeeper with 25 colonies (410)257-3267 Dunkirk,MD USA Pres. Assoc. of Southern MD Beekeepers Life member MD State Beekeepers Association,VP for Calvert Co. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 5 Sep 1996 07:17:52 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "M. D. Swintosky (471-3128)" Subject: Brother Adam National Public Radio carried a nice piece on their Morning Edition program this morning about Brother Adam, including an interview with Dr. Eva Crane. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 4 Sep 1996 20:29:44 -0700 Reply-To: Harmony@NorthNet.org Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Deb & Greg Kalicin Organization: Harmony Farm Subject: router or shaper bit to shape hand grips We would like to know if any knows where one can buy a router or shaper bit to make hand holds in our hive bodies and supers. We have been unable to find any. We want to start getting ready to expand in the spring. Today I could see the girls were not putting up with the lazy old drones. Winter must be on its way. Deb & Greg Kalicin Lisbon, NY harmony@Northnet.org ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 5 Sep 1996 13:50:23 +0100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "THONE HUGO VE144 (240)9452" Subject: Re: Brother Adam In-Reply-To: <199609051121.AA07054@gateway.timken.com> > National Public Radio carried a nice piece on their Morning Edition > program this morning about Brother Adam, including an interview with > Dr. Eva Crane. Is there a way to get a copy of this interview ? +++++ Hugo Thone (SE144) (\ {|||8- ALCATEL TELECOM (/ F.Wellesplein 1 B-2018 Antwerp do bee do bee do .... email : thoneh@btmaa.bel.alcatel.be phone : (32) 3 240 94 52 fax : (32) 3 240 99 50 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 5 Sep 1996 08:32:10 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Kim Flottum Subject: Bee Suit Evaluation, and more Hello, This is a promotional message, however, it fits in with the bee tight topic mentioned, so I thought I would share it with the group. In the November issue of Bee Culture magazine, there will be a detailed article on clothes that beekeepers wear while working bees. All U.S., and some foreign sources have been evaluated for a variety of factors including bee-tightness. But cost, wearability, usefullness, and the like are also included. The many types of veils, suits, gloves, bands, hats, etc. have all been tried and tested in both a casual and commercial setting, and the results (and photos) given for your infomation. There is also a bit of history and the evolution of the bee suit and veil as well.This article is similar to those published in the past in Bee Culture, evaluating and comparing other types of beekeeping equipment, most notebly woodenware, extractors, uncappers, and the like. No other American beekeeping magazine produces information of this sort. For more information on how to obtain Bee Culture magazine please contact me directly, at BCULTURE@AOL.COM, or check out our web page at http:/www. airoot.com Again, I realize this is a pretty straight forward commercial message, and I apologize if I have offended any subscirber. However, after monitering this list almost from the beginning, it is apparent that many subscribers do not have access to current information, and certainly not information of the sort mentioned here. Thank you for your time. Kim Flottum Editor, Bee Culture magazine ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 5 Sep 1996 08:36:43 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Tom Allen Subject: Re: To dissolve Propolis you.... I often get propolis on my white work jacket. It seems to come off in the laundry using just a good grade of laundry deteregent. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 5 Sep 1996 15:04:03 CST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Vladimir Ptacek Subject: Nectar and UV Friends, Has anybody of our group an information about the effect of UV irradiation on nectar secretion? Are there any references. Thanks in advance. Vladimir Ptacek ---------------------------------------------------------------- Fac. Sci., Dept. Anim. Physiol. E.mail: ptacek@sci.muni.cz Masaryk University phone: .42/5/41129 562 611 37 Brno, Czech Republic fax: .42/5/41211 214 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 5 Sep 1996 08:24:40 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Gerry Visel Subject: Re: To dissolve Propolis you.... -Reply There were a number of posts here a month or two ago about how to clean propolis from "my pearly whites." After a number of inputs, it sounds like the easiest was to use good old fashioned lighter fluid. Works great. Right now. Gerry Visel ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 5 Sep 1996 09:29:49 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jim Moore Subject: Re: Brother Adam >> National Public Radio carried a nice piece on their Morning Edition >> program this morning about Brother Adam, including an interview with >> Dr. Eva Crane. > > Is there a way to get a copy of this interview ? You can write morning@npr.org Also on the web check out http://brinkley.prognet.com/contentp/npr/me.html I think will have an online audio file of the program Sept 6th assuming the segmant was today, Sept. 5th. Today it lists the Sept 4th segments. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 5 Sep 1996 08:39:37 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Gerry Visel Subject: Bee Suit Evaluation, and more -Reply If you copy the web page address of A I Root's home page from Kim's message, delete the errant space character in there to make it work... ( ; <) Gerry Visel ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 5 Sep 1996 10:20:17 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ted Fischer Subject: Re: router or shaper bit REGARDING RE>router or shaper bit Deb & Greg Kalicin wrote: "We would like to know if any knows where one can buy a router or shaper bit to make hand holds in our hive bodies and supers. We have been unable to find any." I have used regular rabbet blades, set to 1 inch width, on my table saw. I just raise the blades to cut about 3/4 way through the stock and clamp a wooden stop onto the table to position the hand holds in the right place. Then with the stock pushed against the stop and along the fence, I just lower it down over the blades and pick it up again. This works just fine for me, because I really don't need the fancy sloped bottom edge anyway. Ted Fischer ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 5 Sep 1996 09:30:18 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: STEVE PHILLIPS Subject: Baggie Feeders Several weeks ago there was a lot of discussion about baggie feeders on the list. I decided to give them a try, and am amazed at how fast the bees take the syrup. My question is about their use during the winter. Is it possible to use them during the winter? Does the extra air space in the extra box surrounding the baggie cause the bees any problems keeping warm? -Steve Phillips- -Perry, KS- phillips@at01po.wpo.state.ks.us ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 5 Sep 1996 08:34:55 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jerry J Bromenshenk Subject: Re: beekeepers with cancer In-Reply-To: from "Gerard Worrell" at Sep 5, 96 06:09:28 am Sorry, but if bee stings reduce cholesterol, then mine should be hardly measurable. I am six feet tall, weight 170 pounds, am reasonably fit, exist on a low fat diet (whenever I am home and under the control of my wife), don't smoke, etc., but my cholesterol remains much higher than the it should. Stung so many times, I rarely even develop a welt and unless she hits a nerve ending, they don't even hurt (especially in my hands and forearms). The recent article by Visscher and others concerning how to remove a stinger raises an interesting point. They argue that it is more important to remove the sting promptly than whether it is scraped out or pinched out. I have no doubt that the longer the poison sac pumps away, the bigger the dose of venom. Can't respond to whether pinching or scraping releases more or less venom. However, measuring welts raised on their arms seems a bit iffy. Having been a life-time suffer of numerous allegies (but not to bees), I have undergone the scratch tests on my back several times, so I know that is an accepted method for evaluating an allergic response. But here's the problem - bee stings to my hands do not produce a welt or even turn red. Bee stings on my forearms might raise an occassional small welt (less than 1/4 inch) that fades fast. Hit the inside of my wrist, and it puffs a bit. Stings to my face, even the eye lid, rarely produce any welt, but a sting to the ear lobe always hurts and turns red. Stings to my back and lower legs sometimes produce a small welt, but they always redden or flush. My point is that in my case, the size of the welt (if any) is governed by the part of my body that gets stung. In fact, anything that generates a mild allegic response always raises two 1/2 inch welts, one on the inside of each of my forearms. Why? Because the Doctors always tested the potency of my allergy shots in those two spots. 40 yrs later, they are always the first to respond. Jerry Bromenshenk The University of Montana-Missoula jjbmail@selway.umt.edu http://grizzly.umt.edu/biology/bees ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 5 Sep 1996 10:58:00 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Mike Beluch Subject: Drawing new foundation: Novice's questions...... Hello all, Just making it through my second season of keeping bees. Last year I started by babysitting just one hive, this year I had one and babysat two; by the end of this season I have seven, next year (if the mites don't get me too bad) I should have between 7-12. You folks are right, I think beekeeping may just be a genetic defect ;-) However, in my experiences this year, I've had a heck of a time getting the bees to draw foundation. Some say, sugar like crazy! They'll draw it out. Yeah, well, not quite. My best results were in a heavy nectar flow, plus a little 1:1 syrup. Then they drew fine. I stopped the sugar then though, because of the flow, and because I didn't want sugar-honey. And they stopped drawing. But I had a few extra medium supers that were never drawn out at all, even though my double brood nest was FULL of brood & honey. This foundation doesn't look "bee dirty" but now someone has told me, since they didn't draw it this year, they never will. I can see that if it was heavily trafficked, but it wasn't. I hate the thought of replacing all that foundation. So next year I'm starting 4-5 colonies with nucs, and they must draw draw draw. Any suggestions to starting my spring off productive and getting these ladies to draw like mad? I know its early to have these concerns, but, hey, my beekeeping is now becoming an obsession 8-) Thanks for listening Mike ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 5 Sep 1996 10:29:39 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Gerry Visel Subject: Drawing new foundation: Novice's questions...... -Reply Mike, The beeses know when and how much comb they need. (They read better books than we do...) They drew in the heavy nectar flow because they needed the space. Sugar syrup induces a sumulated nectar flow. Don't worry about the "old" undrawn foundation. Put it on in the spring, and they will fill it on out as they need it. I have some that I had on hives three years running to give extra space as required, but it was drawn very little. This year I put it on a hive that was exploding in a heavy flow, and it is now the fattest, fullest comb in my five hives! Have fun! Gerry Visel ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 5 Sep 1996 11:47:32 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Tim Peters Subject: Re: beekeepers with stings! At 10:37 AM 9/5/96 -0500, Jerry Bromenshenk wrote: >Stung so many times, I rarely even develop a welt and unless she hits a >nerve ending, they don't even hurt (especially in my hands and forearms). >>always the first to respond. > Damn Jerry! You're the Evil Knevil of BeeKeeping! He has had every bone broken (at least once) and you've been stung more places than I can even think about! Keep up the good work. Tim Peters, Kirby VT tpeters@kingcon.com KirBee Apiary, Bear Bait Honey I rather be flying! ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 5 Sep 1996 11:56:12 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Guy Miller Subject: Re: router or shaper bit At 10:20 AM 9/5/96 -0400, you wrote: > REGARDING RE>router or shaper bit > >Deb & Greg Kalicin wrote: >"We would like to know if any knows where one can buy a router or shaper >bit to make hand holds in our hive bodies and supers. We have been >unable to find any." On my table saw I split a pressure treated 2 x 4 so I have two almost square sticks. Then I cut them into 4 inch pieces, and screw them onto the boxes to make external lifting handles. They could be put on all four sides, but I just put them on the long sides. I find it easier than using just my finger tips in the usual routed-out slots. Guy F. Miller 2025 Spottswood Rd. Charlottesville, VA 22903 (804) 296-0090 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 5 Sep 1996 09:57:50 -0600 Reply-To: allend@internode.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Allen Dick Organization: The Beekeepers Subject: Re: Drawing new foundation: Novice's questions...... > but now someone > has told me, since they didn't draw it this year, they never > will. I can see that if it was heavily trafficked, but it > wasn't. I hate the thought of replacing all that foundation. Not necessarily true. Depends on many factors. It may not bee quite as attractive next year, but if it is still wired in place and not too badly broken, it may well be okay. Best solution is not to give tto much at once, and not to oversuper with foundation. Or use plastic foundation. Regards Allen W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper VE6CFK RR#1, Swalwell, Alberta Canada T0M 1Y0 Internet:dicka@cuug.ab.ca & allend@internode.net Honey. Bees, & Art ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 5 Sep 1996 10:04:54 -0600 Reply-To: allend@internode.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Allen Dick Organization: The Beekeepers Subject: Re: router or shaper bit > "We would like to know if any knows where one can buy a router or > shaper bit to make hand holds in our hive bodies and supers. We have > been unable to find any." A wobble washer will work fine. We built a framework to clamp ontot he top of the table saw to constrian the movement of the boxes, and just lower the box onto the blade, move it about 2 inches and raise. This gives a square profile hole. If you want the commercial scooped look, then you need a shaper head and (3) blades -- available at most good tool stores. Unfortunately, they only come curved in narrower widths, so if you want the 1-1/2 or 2" wide handles, you'll have to buy a straight cutter set and grind them to the correct profile. You can then have a sharpening shop put the correct edge on them (unless you are skilled at that yourself). Regards Allen W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper VE6CFK RR#1, Swalwell, Alberta Canada T0M 1Y0 Internet:dicka@cuug.ab.ca & allend@internode.net Honey. Bees, & Art ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 5 Sep 1996 12:07:09 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: James D Satterfield Subject: Tasting honey If I wish to introduce my friends to different honeys, what have you found to be the best way for tasting?? I don't know how honey judges do the tasting, though I did see mead judges in England use a slice of apple to "clear the palate" between tastings. A spoonful of honey can be strangling. Perhaps a small piece of bread or toast dipped in the honey?? I'm eager to hear of your suggestions or experiences. Reply to me directly if you don't feel this should generate a thread. Cordially yours, Jim --------------------------------------------------------------- | James D. Satterfield | E-Mail: jsatt@gsu.edu | | -------------------------------- | 258 Ridge Pine Drive Canton is about 40 mi/64 km | | Canton, GA 30114, USA north of Atlanta, Georgia USA | | Telephone (770) 479-4784 | --------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 5 Sep 1996 12:16:42 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: James D Satterfield Subject: Flavor of extracted honey. My beekeeping friend, P.N., says that if he tastes some of the honey on an uncapped comb then compares it with the taste of the honey as it comes out of the extractor, the taste is different. Some of his friends say, "Nope, there is no difference." What is your experience, opinion, or perhaps research in this matter? What about this as a working hypothesis: A flavor gradient exists in old combs which have been used repeatedly for extraction. Honey near the cappings has a different flavor than the honey at the base of the cells. Or if you prefer a null hypothesis: "There is no difference in the flavor of honey at a place within a particular cell. I look forward to hearing from you. Post to me directly if you don't feel that a thread should be started. Cordially yours, Jim --------------------------------------------------------------- | James D. Satterfield | E-Mail: jsatt@gsu.edu | | -------------------------------- | 258 Ridge Pine Drive Canton is about 40 mi/64 km | | Canton, GA 30114, USA north of Atlanta, Georgia USA | | Telephone (770) 479-4784 | --------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 5 Sep 1996 12:29:54 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ted Fischer Subject: Re: Flavor of extracted hone REGARDING RE>Flavor of extracted honey Jim Satterfield wrote: "My beekeeping friend, P.N., says that if he tastes some of the honey on an uncapped comb then compares it with the taste of the honey as it comes out of the extractor, the taste is different. Some of his friends say, "Nope, there is no difference." There most certainly is a difference. I produce extracted honey exclusively, but I always look forward to chewing on pieces of burr comb so prevalent in the supers, as do my wife, children and friends. Everyone says that the flavor has no equal. I think a lot of this flavor is contained in the volatile components that waft up and are lost forever. Ted Fischer ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 5 Sep 1996 12:27:32 -30000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Steve Diana Subject: Re: Baggie Feeders Hi, I missed the discussion on baggie feeders and would like to give them a try. Can anyone tell me how they are made and used? Thanks. Steve Diana Diana@uiuc.edu ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 5 Sep 1996 19:27:41 GMT Reply-To: Tim_Sterrett@westtown.edu Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Tim Sterrett Organization: Westtown School Subject: Tasting honey How to have people taste honey. A bowl of toothpicks, each one used only once, allows people to dip something into a jar. Honeybears filled with honey keep the honey cleaner; tasters can squeeze a little onto a toothpick. Tim Tim Sterrett Westtown, (Southeastern) Pennsylvania, USA tim_sterrett@westtown.edu ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 5 Sep 1996 19:33:07 GMT Reply-To: Tim_Sterrett@westtown.edu Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Tim Sterrett Organization: Westtown School Subject: Flavor of extracted honey. Or if you prefer a null hypothesis: "There is no difference in the flavor of honey at a place within a particular cell. My GUESS is the above thesis. Honey and cappings that have just fallen into the cappings container in the extracting room taste the BEST. Tim Tim Sterrett Westtown, (Southeastern) Pennsylvania, USA tim_sterrett@westtown.edu ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 5 Sep 1996 10:20:10 +0100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Paul Walton Subject: Re: transmitter on bee In-Reply-To: <199609042037.AA231329462@hazeltine.com> In article <199609042037.AA231329462@hazeltine.com>, Ray Lackey writes >Can someone provide a reference or contact for the British radio >transmitter on a bee. Thanks in advance. >++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ >+ Raymond J. Lackey, EAS Master Beekeeper, Pres LIBC + >+ Twelve years exper with 25 colonies on Long Island, NY+ >+ INTERNET: lackeyr@hazeltine.com + >+ Mail: 1260 Walnut Avenue, Bohemia NY 11617-2176 + >+ Home Phone: 516-567-1936 FAX: 516-262-8053 + >++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ An article in "Bee Biz" (issue 3, May 1996, page 28) mentioned a Dr. Joe Riley at the Natural Resources Institute Radar Unit who recently developed the harmonic radar technique for tracking low-flying insects. It also mentioned that the Institute of Arable Crops Research (IACR) at Rothamsted have used the technique to track both honey and bumble bees on a radar display. I guess that a good starting point for you to contact would be : Prof. Ingrid Williams Institute of Arable Crops Research Entomology and Nematology Department Rothamsted Experimental Station Harpenden Hertfordshire AL5 2JQ England Tel. +44 (0)1582 763133 I hope that this helps, - Paul - -- Paul Walton Paul@adrem.demon.co.uk Toddington, Bedfordshire, England. Tel. +44 (0)1525 875570 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 5 Sep 1996 22:53:46 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Stephen.Reddick" Subject: Re: To dissolve Propolis you.... -Reply Gerry Visel wrote: > > There were a number of posts here a month or two ago about how to clean propolis from > "my pearly whites." > > After a number of inputs, it sounds like the easiest was to use good old fashioned lighter > fluid. Works great. Right now. > > Gerry Visel Hi Beeliners Just a quick saftey note. If you wash your cloth with lighter fluid or naphta. Do not dry them in a dryer right away. This is a good way to burn down you house. I suggest letting them air out on the cloth line before running them though a normal wash/dry cycle. Steve.R sunrise@barint.on.ca ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 5 Sep 1996 23:48:16 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Cecile T. Kohrs" Subject: Br. Adam, With apologies....if I did a copyright no-no or made too many typos The following was printed in the Sept. 4 1996 copy of THE WASHINGTON POST, a newspaper of general delivery in Washington, DC, USA I hope no one hangs me for this, thought you all might want to see it. Sorry if I made many typos. BROTHER ADAM DIES; Monk was authority on Honeybees -- by Richard Pearson, Washington Post Staff Writer Brother Adam, 98, a British Benedictine monk who took charge of his monastery's ailing honeybee population during WWI and went on to become one of the world's greatest authorities on bee-raising before being forced into retirement in 1992, died of unreported causes Sept. 1. Brother Adam, born Karl Kehrle in the old German kingdom of Wuertemberg, died at a nursing home near Buckfast Abbey, the Benedictine monastery in Devon, Eng., where he had been sent by his mother when he was 12. In 1915, Brother Adam was sent to the part of the monastery where bees were raised for their honey, largely for the monks' consumption. In 1919, Brother Adam became a full monk. By then, he was something of a "king" bee. He recalled in a 1992 newspaper interview that in 1918 "all the bees in Britain were destroyed by a disease they got from a parasite." Shrugging off such problems as world war and Greek-Turkish strife, Brother Adam went on to say "That's when I went out to Asia Minor and found a nice friendly bee in Turkey. That got me interested in breeding queens resistant to disease." Brither Adam took to his role of beekeeper with an almost otherworldly enthusiasm and success. His bee cross-breeding resulted in the legendary "Buckfast Superbee," claimed by many authorities to be the hardiest and most prolific honey producer ever bred. In the 1990s, the US Agriculture Dept. turned to Brother Adam for help when honey procuction in the US was severly curtailed by acarine disease, a viral invection that had crippled British honey production 75 years before. The monk sent off shipments of special Buckfast queen bees that saved the day. His acarine-resistant bees are said to have earned his abbey more than $30,000 a year and is said to have a worldwide effect on honey production. During the years, Brother Adam traveled more than 100,000 miles in search of bees, visiting Asia, continental Europe and North America. He traveled by car, donkey, and on foot. Before WWII, he had even searched for bees in the Sahara. From the early 1950s to early 1980s, he concentrated his searches in the Mediterranean world and the Middle East. Only eight years ago, he travelled to Africa, where a fellow researcher carried him on a bamboo chair strapped to his back up Africa's highest mountain, Mount Kilimanjaro. Their quest in search for the area's Monticola bee was filmed for television. As his fame spread, Brother Adam's honors increased. He was awarded honorary science doctorates from universities in Sweden and Britain. In 1974, he was made a member of the Order of the British Empire by Queen Elizabeth II. Prehaps another measure of fame came to light in 1982, when police issued a nationwide alert for two queen bees and 11 combs with worker bees and drones, all stolen from Brother Adam's lab at the abbey. The kidnap victims, who had been genetically engineered from Buckfast and Greek strains by Brother Adam over a nine-year-period where memorably described by police as "three quarters of an inch in length, with dark brown and dark gray stripes." Police were reported to have mobilized an estimated 4,000 Devon beekeepers to help in the search. As time marched on, it took its toll on Brother Adam. He maintained something of a distracted air, with his white hair and the German accent he never lost. By the early 1990s, Brother Adam, who had been described as "selectively deaf" by some of his superiors, also had trouble keeping his balance and had developed cataracts. A group of French beekeepers, chagrined that the famed monk might have to give up bees, came up with more than $5,000 to secure the services of one of France's leading eye surgeons. Then, in 1992, disaster struck. A new abbot took charge and ruled that what was described as genetic engineering foolishness had to stop. From then on, bees were only to be raised for honey to be used by the monks or sold at its gift shop. Breeders on four continents were outraged, venting their anger to both the specialized and general press. Brother Adam's search for an "environmentally green" bee that would end the need for chemical additives to European honey had to be abandoned. Many felt his work close to success. He was the author of seven books, three of which are regarded as classics: "Beekeeping at Buckfast Abbey," "In Search of the Best Strains of Bees," and "Breeding the Honeybee." On his "retirement," a popular plaint was that Brother Adam would not last long without his bees and that he had enormous knowlege that he had yet to share. The monthk disagreed, saying everthing he knew was in his books, but that "I may have forgotten one or two things and didn't put them in my articles,...lots of mystery in bees, you know." ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 6 Sep 1996 09:51:39 +0300 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: nokrian rivka Subject: Re: Nectar and UV In-Reply-To: <54249.ptacek@elanor.sci.muni.cz> Hi, I will be very much interested in the same info. Thanks in advance, Rivka Rivka Nokrian Dept. of Botany George S. Wise Faculty of Life Sciences, Tel Aviv University Tel Aviv, Israel On Thu, 5 Sep 1996, Vladimir Ptacek wrote: > Friends, > Has anybody of our group an information about the effect of UV irradiation > on nectar secretion? Are there any references. Thanks in advance. > Vladimir Ptacek > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > Fac. Sci., Dept. Anim. Physiol. E.mail: ptacek@sci.muni.cz > Masaryk University phone: .42/5/41129 562 > 611 37 Brno, Czech Republic fax: .42/5/41211 214 > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 6 Sep 1996 08:26:41 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Aaron Morris Subject: Tasting Honey Another implement good for tasting honey is swizzle sticks - the kind used to stir coffee or coctails. Since they are hollow they hold a nice amount of honey for the palate and can be used for two tastings per stick (one per end). Of course it is a faux pau to tripple dip! Aaron Morris - I think, therefore I bee! ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 6 Sep 1996 08:45:49 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "M. D. Swintosky (471-3128)" Subject: Beeswax as a Firearm Lubricant One of the beekeepers in my local bee club is a hunting enthusiast. He has seen advertisements for beeswax based lubricants, but they are somewhat pricey. Does anyone know of a solvent that can be used with beeswax for the do-it-yourselfer to make his own lubricant? And if so, where might I find this in Northeast Ohio? Mike Swintosky Carroll County Beekeepers ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 6 Sep 1996 10:09:19 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Lars Lutton (614)593-2669" Subject: Re: Beeswax as a Firearm Lubricant In-Reply-To: <199609061256.AA23096@gateway.timken.com> Mike, There are as many recipes as there are shooters; a good place to start is 50/50 petroleum jelly and beeswax, melted and mixed. It greatly depends on the specific end use and the ambient air temp. at the time of use-LAL/SE OHIO USA ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 5 Sep 1996 17:51:10 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: QueenBJan@aol.com Subject: Re: Hurricane Fran -- pray for the bees Update on Fran: The winds are picking up but it appears that the worst part will pass north of us here. Most of our bees are south and west of us. There are already a few trees and branches down and our power has been out and back on again once. Hopefully it won't be as bad as Hugo. Thank you for your prayers. I know He is listening. Janice and Dave (Pollinator) ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 6 Sep 1996 09:30:17 -0700 Reply-To: Harmony@NorthNet.org Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Deb & Greg Kalicin Organization: Harmony Farm Subject: Re: router or shaper bit Thank you for your input on the hand holds. Deb ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 6 Sep 1996 09:32:27 -0700 Reply-To: Harmony@NorthNet.org Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Deb & Greg Kalicin Organization: Harmony Farm Subject: thank you I am sorry that I just sent my thank you to the entire list. My intention was to thank each individually. Please accept my appology. Deb ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 6 Sep 1996 12:05:32 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Charles Cannon Subject: SOLAR VENTILATION Hi, everybody ? for the day is anybody seen or used a solar powered ventilation unit for bee hives my mother seen one advertized for a $125.00 or more anybody got any opions or good or bad ideals or plans to build one my mother would like any info on this subject. Thank you all for your time. Charles Beekeeping in FL. BEE END!!!!!!!!!! ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 6 Sep 1996 10:09:13 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jerry J Bromenshenk Subject: Re: beekeepers with stings! In-Reply-To: from "Tim Peters" at Sep 5, 96 11:47:32 am > > At 10:37 AM 9/5/96 -0500, Jerry Bromenshenk wrote: > > >Stung so many times, I rarely even develop a welt > Damn Jerry! You're the Evil Knevil of BeeKeeping! > He has had every bone broken (at least once) Well, we are both Montana natives. Jerry > > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 6 Sep 1996 09:14:46 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: John Day Subject: Re: SOLAR VENTILATION never seen one used. i wonder just how much extra honey could be produced from a single hive with that unit installed. i believe it would take a long time to pay off the $125 through that small difference. Remember, the unit only works with just one hive, so that is a sizable investment to make, with a long payoff period. does anyone out there own one of these, and what are your results? (\ John /) {|||8- in -8|||} (/ Santa Cruz \) California ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 6 Sep 1996 14:20:17 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Charles Cannon Subject: Price of bees going into winter? Anbody got an opion on a fair price to pay for bees going into winter with 2 deep brood chambers and 1 honey super on top right now i have been seeing ads for bees for sale from $80 to $85 dollars here in Florida one fellow was wanting $800.00 dollars for 10 hives unseen don't know what shape they were in or what kind of upkeep they had this year. e-mail me personal if you don't think it belongs on the list at: member8699@aol.com or artec@msn.com Thank you. Charles BEE END!!!!!! ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 6 Sep 1996 14:29:49 -0600 Reply-To: allend@internode.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Allen Dick Organization: The Beekeepers Subject: Experimental Results Well, some time back, there was talk of finding queens by taking a brood frame for one hive and placing it in another. The theory was that the queen would smell the other queen and run to that frame, to be found there when it was next removed minutes later. We decided to test that hypothesis after splitting 22 hives by removing the lower brood chamber (BC) and setting it aside on a floor plus an emptylower BC at the end of the main flow. The hives' entrances were reduced, and the hives left several days. On returning, one centre brood frame was pulled from each hive and transferred to the gap in the centre of the BC in the previous hive. In the process, 2 queens were spotted just in passing, and those hives were removed from the test. Of the remaining 20 splits, half had queens, as it ultimately turned out; half didn't. However _in no case_ was the queen found on the newly introduced frame, after 5 minutes, after 10 minutes, or even after 20 minutes . Each queeen's presence or absence had to be detected by checking for eggs. (We had marked the hive/split pairs, so only the splits had to be checked. The principal object was to requeen each hive or corresponding split) by finding which had the queen. So, we were unable to make this idea work for us. Has anyone actually had it work? Regards Allen W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper VE6CFK RR#1, Swalwell, Alberta Canada T0M 1Y0 Internet:dicka@cuug.ab.ca & allend@internode.net Honey. Bees, & Art ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 6 Sep 1996 17:09:12 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ian Watson Subject: Re: Drawing new foundation: Novice's questions...... Comments: To: Allen Dick In-Reply-To: On Thu, 5 Sep 1996, Allen Dick wrote: > > but now someone > > has told me, since they didn't draw it this year, they never > > will. I can see that if it was heavily trafficked, but it > > wasn't. I hate the thought of replacing all that foundation. > > Best solution is not to give tto much at once, and not to oversuper > with foundation. > > Or use plastic foundation. > I have heard that a lot...about bees not liking plastic foundation...eg..Plasticell.....But I have had no problem getting it drawn as long as there's a good nectar flow and/or feeding.... Plus...Plasticell is good because after the combs get damaged or whatever..you can just scrape off the comb..and let the bees start over...:) Ian Watson iwatson@freenet.npiec.on.ca ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 6 Sep 1996 21:26:25 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Logan VanLeigh Subject: Re: Wormy Honey Bill Miller wrote: > > For final filtering I use a nylon bridal cloth that is similar to bridal veil > material, but of finer weave. Pantyhose material is also good (wash it > first). > > Commercial strainers/filters are also available. > > I use a 5-gal bucket with honey gate and nylon cloth (similar to bridal veil) filters sized to fit sold by Brushy Mtn. Excellent. Logan ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 6 Sep 1996 18:43:05 +0000 Reply-To: james.peterson.2@m.k12.ut.us Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: James Max Peterson Organization: UtahLink Subject: The Beekeeper's Handbook Hi: I am attempting to purchase the book "The Beekeeper's Handbook" by Diana Sammataro and Alphonse Avitabile. Any help0 out there? James Peterson 1028 N 150 West American Fork, Utah (801) 756-3826 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 6 Sep 1996 23:46:16 +0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: George_Willy Subject: Router Shaper Bit Deb & Greg: Since the first year of beekeeping in my life I have made all of my own woodenware and as of this winter, now that I have enough wax stored up I will Be producing all of my own foundation. I have found that a shaper or router are not necessary and use my table saw set up with a jig to hold the front and back panels of the hive body stationary with the saw blade centered. I rig up the saw with a Dado set to 7/8" or the widest I can get it. Being that the hive body is or should be 7/8" in thickness I set the Dado's to 5/8" in depth. With the saw running I slowly lower the panel over the dado within the jig untill flat with the table top. Then I lift it off and all's done. Some of the oldtimers will say that this is not a goodway to do it because the bottom edge is square and not beveled and will catch water. I have found that this is not the case however if you prefer a lower beveled edge you might set up a jig to slide the panel to a stop and as you did this the dado would ease it's way into the stock.Hope you can understand this. If not send me a message and I will try to clarify it up. George from the beautiful Northeast Kingdom of Vermont P.S. Anybody outthere want to buy a large house up here that used to be our home with 10 acres of land (or more) and a pond and beautiful views for 85,000. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 6 Sep 1996 23:46:20 +0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: George_Willy Subject: Brother Adam Comments: cc: THONEH@BTMAA.BEL.ALCATEL.BE Do bee do bee do: I'd like a copy too! George, from the beautiful Northeast Kingdom of Vermont -- End --