Received: from [169.226.1.21] by relay.internode.net (SMTPD32-3.02) id AE021F1700B4; Tue, 12 Nov 1996 23:43:14 -0700 Received: from CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU by CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU (IBM VM SMTP V2R2) with BSMTP id 9086; Wed, 13 Nov 96 01:47:01 EST Received: from CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU (NJE origin LISTSERV@ALBNYVM1) by CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU (LMail V1.2c/1.8c) with BSMTP id 9678; Wed, 13 Nov 1996 01:46:58 -0500 Date: Wed, 13 Nov 1996 01:46:54 -0500 From: "L-Soft list server at ALBNYVM1 (1.8b)" Subject: File: "BEE-L LOG9609D" To: "W. Allen Dick" X-UIDL: 474 Status: U ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 21 Sep 1996 08:17:52 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Tim Channell Subject: Re: Carniolans - "Old World," "New World," "Yugos," HELP! At 08:20 PM 9/20/96 -0400, you wrote: >Hello! > >I am quite new to beekeeping; in fact, I won't even have my first hives until >the spring. I have heard a lot about Carniolans, and am very interested in >starting with that type of bee because of their reputation for gentleness. > However, now that I've been researching this bee, I find that there are "Old >World," "New World," and Yugoslavian Carniolans. What's the difference? I >get very different answers from each of the various apiaries I have called, >all saying that their bees, of course, are best. > >Also, how does the gentleness of the Carniolans compare to the Buckfast bee, >in which I am also very interested, and the "Midnite" hybrid bee? > >Thanks in advance for your assistance! > >Mary Caldwell >Benicia, CA > -------------------------- I would be interested in knowning which apiaries sell the Carniolans and Buckfast. Do any of you bee buddies known? Thanks, Tim - El Paso, Texas Tim Channell ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 21 Sep 1996 19:37:05 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Bill Miller Subject: Re: Carniolans - "Old World," "New World," "Yugos," HELP! Carniolan Bees First off, the cardinal rule of beekeeping: All other rules start with the word "usually". Carniolans are a gentle bee. They build up very quickly in the spring, and then do not produece a lot of bees during dearth periods. Accordingly, they are popular in areas which get short, intense, nectar flows in the spring (e.g., Maryland). The downside to Carniolans is that they can build up too fast in the spring, and therefore they require more intense swarm management than Italians. Caucasian bees may be dark like Carniolans, but they have much later buildup. Don't use them if you have an early honeyflow - the colony won't be large enough to get it. As to the different races of Carniolans, the only thing I can say is that I haven't met anyone who likes the Yugos. Personally, I use New Worlds, but I know folks who like the Hastings. W. G. Miller Gaithersburg, MD ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 22 Sep 1996 00:37:05 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Mary Caldwell Subject: Re: Carniolans - "Old World," "New World," "Yugos," HELP! Hi Bill! Thanks for the information on the Carniolans and Caucasians... it was very helpful, and I appreciate it! Mary ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 22 Sep 1996 00:51:43 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Mary Caldwell Subject: Thanks to all... Thanks so much to all of you who wrote with advice on the Carniolans and Buckfast bees... I really appreciate it! Beekeepers are indeed a friendly and helpful bunch! I still don't know exactly what I'm going to do, but I suppose I have until spring to figure that out. I hope to have a positive report then... Take care, everyone! Mary Caldwell Benicia, CA ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 22 Sep 1996 04:13:15 -0500 Reply-To: bbirkey@interaccess.com Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Barry Birkey Organization: Birkey.Com Subject: Re: Thanks to all... Mary Caldwell wrote: > > Thanks so much to all of you who wrote with advice on the Carniolans and > Buckfast bees... I really appreciate it! Beekeepers are indeed a friendly > and helpful bunch! I still don't know exactly what I'm going to do, but I > suppose I have until spring to figure that out. I hope to have a positive > report then... > > Take care, everyone! > > Mary Caldwell > Benicia, CA Mary - Don't wait till Spring to decide about your bees, it might very well be too late. You might want to at least have an order called in by the end of Jan. Just don't think you can get your bees right when you want them without any advanced ordering. Plan ahead. Good luck. -Barry -- Barry Birkey West Chicago, Illinois USA bbirkey@interaccess.com http://www.birkey.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 22 Sep 1996 23:28:28 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Brian R. Tucker" Subject: Arcives Does anyone know how I can retreive arcived files from the Bee-l list.Thanks ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 22 Sep 1996 22:26:51 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Paul Cronshaw, D.C." Subject: Feeders and SUgar syrup It seems that I have taken a little too much honey this season from my 4 hives and they will be short supply over the approaching winter months. The Blue Gums do not flower until December in Santa Barbara. What type of feeders work the best: Division boards (full or super size), feeder pails, or entrance feeders.? What ratio of sugar to water provides a good winter feed? Can honey be added to make it more palliative? Thanks for any input Paul Cronshaw DC Hobby Beekeeper Santa Barbara, CA ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 22 Sep 1996 19:16:34 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Garrett Dodds Subject: Re: Carniolans - "Old World," "New World," "Yugos," HELP! Hi Mary, Your question of the different "strains" of carniolans that are found in the U.S. is a good question that needs to be discussed. First off I have to tell you that I am biassed in my opinion on which strain I like the best, just like all the queen breeders you talked to. I work with the New World Carniolans at The Ohio State University where we are part of a cooperative breeding program with some queen rearers in California. Carniolan is a race of the honey bee just like Italian, and Caucasian. Starline, Midnite, Buckfast, Yugo's, New World, Old World, Hastings, ect., are all strains of these of these and other races. All of theses strains are named by breeder to separate it's identity from the other breeders "Italian". The Buckfast bee is a strain bred in the Buckfast Abbey in England. It is a mixture of many different races of honey bees from around the world. This bee is a very good general strain. It produces a good crop of honey, is very tolerant of the Tracheal mites, and gentle. The Yugo's or ARS-Y-C-1 (official name) Carniolans, are a strain of carniolan imported from the Yugoslavian Republic by the USDA. This strain was bred for Tracheal mite and Vorroa mite resistance. When first released it displayed the typical carniolan traits, over wintering in small colonies, intensive swarming, quick build-up. I did not find it to be consistently gentle though, on a nice clear day they were fine but if it got cold, cloudy, ect. they could get very aggressive. The strain available now is not the pure Yugo. It has been mixed in with other carniolan stock here in the U.S. Hastings Carniolans was an imported from Canada. It is no longer available in its original form. It has been incorporated into the New World Carniolans a couple of years ago. New World Carniolans were started from carniolan stock that could be found in the U.S. and Canada about 15 years ago. They were mostly started from Hastings stock. This strain is gentle and productive. Their Tracheal mite tolerance is similar to that of the Buckfast. They build up fast in the spring and shut down brood production early, which helps with the treatment for vorroa mites. They are not incline to swarm. The Old World Carniolans were started mostly from the New World Carniolan, 5 or more years ago. I don't know what they're like because I have only tried one queen of them. One queen is not enough to make a fair comparison. I can say that it was a gentle colony with a fast build-up. I hope the clears some things up for you. And it probably generated a dozen more questions. Feel free to ask any questions you have that's what this list is for. Garrett ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 22 Sep 1996 04:30:44 GMT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Colin Mitchell Subject: Date on bees September 22, 1996 Hi! I am a South African journalist currently researching bees for a magazine. I would be grateful if anyone could supply me with data regarding the African bee -- how verocious or aggressive it is, how it compares with its US and European counterparts, how the man-in-the-street can treat bee stings, how dangerous can a bee sting be, the average size of a swarm, is the African bee a killer? In fact, I'd be grateful for any data on the African bee that you could provide me with. Many thanks. Colin Mitchell ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Sep 1996 10:02:22 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ted Fischer Subject: Hive placement REGARDING Hive placement In a related post, Ted Wouk commented about Allen Dick's observation: >Allen Dick wrote: >Well, there are many reasons bees can become mean: >* Shade -- too cool a location "I'm not questioning the advice but pondering the local and book accepted advice of putting hives in the shade. Is this a southern (warmer climate) exception. Or is it a northern climate issue that since it's colder, you keep your hives in the sun. I do know that when it gets really hot here in Texas the bees resort to fanning in huge numbers. This may reduce honey production but I've never noticed an increase in defensive behavior when it's hot. When it's cold I don't bother my hives. I'm no authority on the matter but has anyone out there got some logic for this?" I'm not exactly in the far north (southeastern Michigan), but it does get down to about 10 below here at times in the winter, and usually stays below 95 in the summer, so I would say that our climate is pretty moderate. Nevertheless, over the years I have noticed that my bees seem a whole lot more comfortable in the shade than in the sun. I have gradually moved almost all my hives into wooded areas, or at least at the edge of wooded areas where they get shade most of the day. My experience is that these bees are a much more industrious, do a lot less fanning because it is just not that necessary, and are also very productive. I have not experienced any increase in aggressiveness due to the shade. Occasionally I have an aggressive hive there, but the same may be true for a hive in the sun. I attribute this entirely to the queen, and when she is replaced it is a different hive altogether. Another advantage to a shaded location is wind protection in the winter. I have never wrapped my hives, and find that with an area protected by trees (evergreens are the best, naturally) wind speed is greatly cut down, allowing the bees to naturally conserve their heat more effectively. And, finally, I must add that a wooded placement hides the yard from vandals, who seem to find great pleasure in tipping over hives. Ted Fischer ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Sep 1996 10:14:30 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Joe Latshaw Subject: Re: Carniolans - "Old World," "New World," "Yugos," HELP! Garrett, I just wanted to let you know what a fine job you and the Ohio State University has done with the New World Carniolans. I have worked with Carniolans for several years now and have found them to be an excellent strain to work with if you like the darker strains of bees. Keep up the good work! Joe ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Sep 1996 17:21:16 CST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Vladimir Ptacek Subject: Re: too much honey Alden, You may try this: Make a hive from a part of your supers with a bottom board and a cover somewhere in a corner of your apiary. Leave about 2 cm bottom entrance open (or one augher hole in a super if they have them). Instead this everything should be bee tight. Take a peace of cardboard or something simillar with some drops of honey and insert it in the bottom entrance of one strong colony. After several seconds transfere the trace with worker bees drinking honey into the entrance of the new hive. If field bees are transfered, they make orientation flights when leaving the new source of honey. They will inform another field bees in their colony and come back with them. After some time the colony makes an air-road between the home and your new "hive". Provided the new hive has only ONE VERY SMALL entrance the bees will defend it against scout bees from other colonies. After the first portion of honey is exhausted you can change the empty supers for the new ones. This may be better to be done in the evening WHEN THE FLYING ACTIVITY CEASED. At the start of the process certain danger exists for other colonies in the apiary since they will be inspected by scount bees as potential sources of honey, too. Nevertheles, if colonies are in proper condition, they will successfully defend. (For the less experienced beekeepers it may be better to start only with one super - maybe even containing only one frame with honey - and only when the matter develops as described above more supers can be added.) Finally one empty hive body with one dry comb should be left on the place what is a signal for the bees to wind up. Best regards, Vladimir Ptacek (ptacek@sci.muni.cz) ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Sep 1996 11:29:27 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jim Moore Subject: Q: Ousting of drones - Apistan removal - v-mite reinfestation I have been pondering a question concerning Varroa mite reinfestation. Since drones are the primary vector for infestation it would seem that the time around the "massacre of the drones" would be a critical time to knock down the mites. The reasoning being that not all hives oust the drones at the same time. Those hives doing it later may receive the ousted drones from other hives. Now if Apistan strips were put on in early August then 45 days would be fairly soon. My hives still have drones so if I were to take out the strips it would seem possible that an influx of infested drones from other hives would undo the work of the Apistan. This does argue for 56 days rather than 45 to cover the spread better. I have a number of questions concerning the ousting of drones. When do the hives oust the drones? What conditions delay the process within a hive? Do some hives, or races of bees do it earlier or later? Is the process dependent on the length of the day, the weather, the flow or a combination of elements? Would a hive in the process of supercedure keep the drones around longer? Are all the drones ousted or just the bulk of them? This is my first year I'm curious about this interesting behavior. If this is a possible scenario then untreated local hives can have a significant impact on v-mite population dynamics within treated hives at the time of the ousting. Comments would be appreciated. Thanks in advance. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Sep 1996 08:50:51 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Adrian Wenner Subject: Re: Feeders and Sugar syrup Paul Cronshaw wrote: >It seems that I have taken a little too much honey this season from my 4 >hives and they will be short supply over the approaching winter months. The >Blue Gums do not flower until December in Santa Barbara. > >What type of feeders work the best: Division boards (full or super size), >feeder pails, or entrance feeders.? In your area, because of Argentine ants, you would be best off with in-hive board feeders. > >What ratio of sugar to water provides a good winter feed? Can honey be >added to make it more palliative? The standard rule: 2:1, sugar to water, in the fall and a 1:1 ratio in the spring. However, the 2:1 is a bit too concentrated, as I will point out in a short article now in preparation. Normally one should not use honey because of the possibility of disease spread. By itself, sucrose (table sugar is the best), but an addition of some fructose and glucose make a more readily acceptable feed for the bees. Adrian Adrian M. Wenner (805) 893-2838 (UCSB office) Ecol., Evol., & Marine Biology (805) 893-8062 (UCSB FAX) Univ. of Calif., Santa Barbara (805) 963-8508 (home office & FAX) Santa Barbara, CA 93106 ************************************************************************* * "The difference between real and unreal things is that unreal things * * usually last much longer." Pot-Shots #6728 * * Copyright, Ashleigh Brilliant --- used with permission * ************************************************************************* ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Sep 1996 11:13:12 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Victor M. Kroenke" Subject: Re: Hive placement Ted Fischer wrote: > > REGARDING Hive placement > > In a related post, Ted Wouk commented about Allen Dick's observation: > > >Allen Dick wrote: > >Well, there are many reasons bees can become mean: > >* Shade -- too cool a location > > "I'm not questioning the advice but pondering the local and book > accepted advice of putting hives in the shade. Is this a southern > (warmer climate) exception. Or is it a northern climate issue that > since it's colder, you keep your hives in the sun. I do know that when > it gets really hot here in Texas the bees resort to fanning in huge > numbers. This may reduce honey production but I've never noticed an > increase in defensive behavior when it's hot. When it's cold I don't > bother my hives. I'm no authority on the matter but has anyone out > there got some logic for this?" > > I'm not exactly in the far north (southeastern Michigan), but it does get down > to about 10 below here at times in the winter, and usually stays below 95 in > the summer, so I would say that our climate is pretty moderate. Nevertheless, > over the years I have noticed that my bees seem a whole lot more comfortable > in the shade than in the sun. I have gradually moved almost all my hives into > wooded areas, or at least at the edge of wooded areas where they get shade > most of the day. My experience is that these bees are a much more > industrious, do a lot less fanning because it is just not that necessary, and > are also very productive. I have not experienced any increase in > aggressiveness due to the shade. Occasionally I have an aggressive hive > there, but the same may be true for a hive in the sun. I attribute this > entirely to the queen, and when she is replaced it is a different hive > altogether. > > Another advantage to a shaded location is wind protection in the winter. I > have never wrapped my hives, and find that with an area protected by trees > (evergreens are the best, naturally) wind speed is greatly cut down, allowing > the bees to naturally conserve their heat more effectively. > > And, finally, I must add that a wooded placement hides the yard from vandals, > who seem to find great pleasure in tipping over hives. > > Ted Fischer When I started keeping bees I always tried to place my hives in the shade but as the years went by it became evident that the hives with no shade or partial shade fared better. Less winter loss and no apparent loss of honey. In fact the best producing hives were in full sun. Even trees without leaves provide shade and when a winter thaw occurs the ground under trees remains frozen when all the sunny areas are thawed. I do consider trees or brush for a windbreak when placing hives but stay away from full shade. Also hive bodies rot a lot faster in full shade. Bees from hives in the sun will be flying on warmer sunny winter days when the full shade hives do not venture out. Another problem I have had is that an ice storm breaks limbs on trees and fall on hives and knock them over. They don't like the chainsaw either when I cut up the fallen limb for removal. My advice for anyone in the Kansas-Missouri area is, don't place hives under trees.. Vic Kroenke ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Sep 1996 09:16:34 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Jeffrey R. Tooker" Subject: wax I would like to know the melting and scorch temperatures of bees wax. I would also for safety reasons like to know the ignition (flamability) temperature if possible. Thank You Jeffrey Tooker Red Bluff Ca. U.S.A. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Sep 1996 09:16:16 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Jeffrey R. Tooker" Subject: Re: Wax worms and Apistan At 09:08 AM 9/19/96 -0500, you wrote: >I had a hive lose it's queen and become weak. I placed apistan strips into >the hive while I waited for a new queen. Within two weeks, the wax moths >were in the hive and having a great time eating. I would say that apistan >strips do not have an effect on wax moth larvae. > >Richard Barnes > >>The recent posting: >>>Last summer I learned the hard way that Varroa infestation in this >>>area requires Apistan treatment twice a year. >>> >>>I lost several hives, and intentionally let one go to the wax worms, >>>never having experienced them before. What a mess, but I am wiser >>>for it now. >> >>made me wonder "Does Apistan, when used in a legal manner for control of >>varroa mite, have any direct activity against wax moth as well?" >> >>The active ingredient in Apistan, fluvalinate, is a very effective >>insecticide for control of many other caterpillars, including many that are >>in the same family as wax moth. However, I am unaware of any testing for >>this insect and the rates used for varroa may be insufficient for wax moth. >> >>Just wondering, as I can't find any other way to control existing wax moth >>infestations since Certan has dropped off the market. >> >>Whitney Cranshaw >>Colorado >>wcransha@ceres.agsci.colostate.edu >> >> > >Yo Richard: Same problem. Same conditions. Same results. Same conclusions here. Jeffrey Tooker Red Bluff Ca. U.S.A. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Sep 1996 09:26:59 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Kerry Clark of AGF 784-2225 fax (604) 784 2299" Subject: Re: too much honey Bees will usually clean out the residue from extraction (including some granulated honey), if the wet supers are placed above an inner cover (or add an empty box above the inner cover, too). It's an easy thing to do, and reduces the granulation problem next year, if the honey in your area is prone to granulate. I do it regularly. As was mentioned, however, sometimes the bees consolidate or add to the little bit of honey, leaving patches of honey in the supers, too little to bother extracting. In this case, and even though it is a bother, you can scratch open any capped cells and put the partly filled supers UNDER the brood nest. I got this advice from an experienced beekeeper, and haven't done it often, but the couple of times I've tried it, the bees removed the honey completely. As the fall brood emerges, it leaves space for storage. Remove the cleaned supers when it's barely warm enough that bees can still fly home. (before it gets too cold). Kerry Clark, Apiculture Specialist B.C. Ministry of Agriculture 1201 103 Ave Dawson Creek B.C. V1G 4J2 CANADA Tel (604) 784-2225 fax (604) 784-2299 INTERNET KCLARK@GALAXY.GOV.BC.CA ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Sep 1996 11:41:05 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: STEVE PHILLIPS Subject: Hive placement There have been a couple posts on hive placement and the merits of shade, partial shade, or sun. I live in northeast Kansas. This is only my second year keeping bees, so take my comments for what they are worth, which may not be too much. I have several hives in a location in which they get morning sun but afternoon shade, and several more hives which get full sun all day. My hives in full sun have for both years yielded substantially more honey, swarmed less, and just generally been stronger than those which get afternoon shade. Maybe this is due to other factors-- I don't know. On hot days the bees in full sun do hang on the fronts, fanning the hives. I worried about this the first year, thinking I was being cruel leaving them in the sun. Since they have done so much better than the partially shaded hives, however, I've got to wonder if my concerns weren't just a bit of anthropomorphisizing on my part. Just because I'm uncomfortable when it's 100 doesn't mean an insect is. I may move all my hives to full sun. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Sep 1996 12:43:41 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Paul Joseph Gatien Subject: Varroa reinfestation In response to Jim Moore: It wouldn't be accurate to say that drones are the primary vectors of Varroa mites in Apis mellifera. Varroa reproduces in both the drone and worker brood in the European bee, unlike in its original host, Apis cerana. Furthermore, it is the workers that are more responsible for the spread of the mite, both within and between hives, due to the workers' greater numbers. It can be argued that the fall is the better time to treat in cooler areas, simply because there is less brood of any type, thus less mite reproduction. In addition, a greater proportion of the mites in the hive at that time are on the adults and more susceptible to chemical treatment. Regards, Paul Gatien ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Sep 1996 11:48:10 -0600 Reply-To: allend@internode.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is Comments: RFC822 error: Incorrect or incomplete address field found and ignored. From: Allen Dick Organization: The Beekeepers Subject: Re: too much honey > Bees will usually clean out the residue from extraction > (including some granulated honey), if the wet supers are placed > above an inner cover (or add an empty box above the inner cover, > too). It's an easy thing to do, and reduces the granulation > problem next year, if the honey in your area is prone to > granulate. I realise that this is a problem for some, but we never worry about it in the least. If we have any granulation, we uncap it, spread it out -- several frames per super -- throughout our supers and then put it away for the winter. In the spring we try to put the heavier boxes on as thirds, but sometimes they do go on as fourths. In any case, we try to get them on a little early. The new nectar dilutes and dissolves it, I guess, and being close to the brood area, it gets warmed up. Come extracting time we never find any of the old granulation. In stubborn cases, try placing three or four granulated combs in the third directly above the brood. Bees typically clear this area of honey in hopes the queen may lay there. We bought an outfit this year that had a lot of granulation in the supers and, yet we have very little coming back in this fall. We use no special measures to deal with the granulation. Regards Allen W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper VE6CFK RR#1, Swalwell, Alberta Canada T0M 1Y0 Internet:dicka@cuug.ab.ca & allend@internode.net Honey. Bees, & Art ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Sep 1996 11:50:18 -0600 Reply-To: allend@internode.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Allen Dick Organization: The Beekeepers Subject: Re: too much honey > Bees will usually clean out the residue from extraction > (including some granulated honey), if the wet supers are placed > above an inner cover (or add an empty box above the inner cover, > too). It's an easy thing to do, and reduces the granulation > problem next year, if the honey in your area is prone to > granulate. I realise that this is a problem for some, but we never worry about it in the least. If we have any granulation, we uncap it, spread it out -- several frames per super -- throughout our supers and then put it away for the winter. In the spring we try to put the heavier boxes on as thirds, but sometimes they do go on as fourths. In any case, we try to get them on a little early. The new nectar dilutes and dissolves it, I guess, and being close to the brood area, it gets warmed up. Come extracting time we never find any of the old granulation. In stubborn cases, try placing three or four granulated combs in the third directly above the brood. Bees typically clear this area of honey in hopes the queen may lay there. We bought an outfit this year that had a lot of granulation in the supers and, yet we have very little coming back in this fall. We use no special measures to deal with the granulation. Regards Allen W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper VE6CFK RR#1, Swalwell, Alberta Canada T0M 1Y0 Internet:dicka@cuug.ab.ca & allend@internode.net Honey. Bees, & Art ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Sep 1996 11:26:37 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Adrian Wenner Subject: Re: Africanized bee information Comments: cc: HerpsNBugs@aol.com Colin Mitchell wrote on September 22, 1996: >I am a South African journalist currently researching bees for a magazine. I >would be grateful if anyone could supply me with data regarding the African bee >-- how verocious or aggressive it is, how it compares with its US and European >counterparts, how the man-in-the-street can treat bee stings, how dangerous can >a bee sting be, the average size of a swarm, is the African bee a killer? In >fact, I'd be grateful for any data on the African bee that you could provide me ******* I just purchased a small booklet (KILLER BEE HANDBOOK) written by David Faulkner and produced and edited by Douglas Hansen of the NATURE CONNECTION. That booklet was written for the general public and, though very short, covers the following topics: 1) Background (history of the strain and arrival in the U.S., 2) Basic Africanized honey bee facts, 3) Scenarios for encountering the bees, 4) Vital medical information, 5) Precautions, 6) How to handle emergencies, and a list of 25 references to the literature (both general and technical. Although my own file on Africanized bees is several inches thick, I found this summary remarkably complete, just as described by Eric Mussen (UC Davis Extension Apiculturist) on the back cover of the booklet. ******** I purchased my copy directly from the NATURE CONNECTION (10839 Charbono Point, Suite 200; San Diego, CA 92131) for US $3.95 + $1 for shipping and handling (higher for other countries, I would suspect). The e-mail contact I used: HerpsNBugs@aol.com Adrian Adrian M. Wenner (805) 893-2838 (UCSB office) Ecol., Evol., & Marine Biology (805) 893-8062 (UCSB FAX) Univ. of Calif., Santa Barbara (805) 963-8508 (home office & FAX) Santa Barbara, CA 93106 ************************************************************************* * "The difference between real and unreal things is that unreal things * * usually last much longer." Pot-Shots #6728 * * Copyright, Ashleigh Brilliant --- used with permission * ************************************************************************* ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Sep 1996 19:13:02 GMT Reply-To: Tim_Sterrett@westtown.edu Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Tim Sterrett Organization: Westtown School Subject: Ousting of drones - Discussion of Bee Biology,BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU,Internet writes: >When do the hives oust the drones? Last week and this week, drones are being driven from the entrances of hives descended from feral swarms. Tim Tim Sterrett Westtown, (Southeastern) Pennsylvania, USA tim_sterrett@westtown.edu ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Sep 1996 11:57:55 -0800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jerry Fries Subject: Re: Carniolans - "Old World," "New World," "Yugos," HELP! I am very interested in this subject due to where I live , Alaska. We have a very short season ,we need bees which build up fast and are gentle in poor conditions. We do have days in the 60 to 70 degree temps but median for most summer days is "usually" in the 50's.I supply bees here to about 150 beekeepers each year and I am constantly trying to get the best bee I can find. So far this is what I have found.I order my bees from Kohnan and sons in Glenn California,They have 2 basic bees Italian or "yellow" bees and Carniolan or "black " bees. I get orders for both. My customers tell me that the Italians are more gentle and build up faster,they also make more honey.Some customers order carniolans because they say they get through the winter better.They stop raiseing brood in about november and start again "usually"the end of january or into february thus needing a lot less food. My experience matches my customers.The carniolans are not orderd in near the quantity as the Italians because they are to agressive in our environment. I would love to try some buckfast or some others but not many breeders are enthused about doing business with us because we are far away (just a Plane ride) and because we do not make huge orders.About 200 to 250 Packages is what I order.There are a couple of other suppliers of about the same size. Well I dont know if I contributed or not but I hope so. Please tell me about Buckfast suppliers or for that matter any suggestions about improving my breed of bee Jerry Fries ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Sep 1996 20:04:21 GMT Reply-To: johntrn@ldd.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: John Taylor Organization: midwest.net Subject: Re: ticks In-Reply-To: <199609091407.HAA13285@m1.sprynet.com> On Mon, 9 Sep 1996 07:07:36 -0700, you wrote: >>Also, what tricks do you use to remove ticks once the have you to be their >>new home? >The same thing we use to get rid of chiggers works well for getting rid of >ticks: plain old Vicks Salve or Mentholatum Rub. Just dab it on the ticks >and they can't breath, so they let go. Camphor also works well by itself. As a fellow beekeeper and an emergency room nurse I just have to jump in with my two cents worth when tick removal is talked about. There are ways to remove ticks and ways not to remove ticks. Generally, anything that is traumatic to the tick should be advoided. The reasoning behind this is as follows. Ticks are the vectors of many diseases. Their bites may result in envenomation secondary to salivary sectretions injected as the tick withdraws blood from an insertion point. Some of the illnesses that can be caused are Lyme Disease, Rocky Mountain Spotted Fever and tick paralysis (these are the common tick-borne diseases for Missouri and may vary in your area). Most of the viruses causing these illnesses are harbored in the stomach of the tick. When a tick is 'traumatized' it has a tendency to regurgitate it's gastric contents as it beats a retreat. Regurgitation into the wound in the host greatly increases the possibility of transmitting illness. Therefore, treatment of any tick bite generally follows this guideline: 1. Remove the tick using the following method. NOTE: Using a hot match or products to "suffocate" the tick are ineffective and may cause more injury. Immersion of the body part in very warm water (CAUTION: Make certain that water is not of a temperature that will burn human skin) will sometimes cause the tick to back out. Do no handle the tick with bare hands, use a blunt forceps or tweezer. Grasp the tick as close to the skin surface as possible and pull upward with steady, even pressure. Do not squeeze, crush or puncture the body of the tick (I presume this means 'while attached') After removing the tick, wash the area with soap and water and cleanse with isopropyl alcohol. If head or mouth parts are left behind they may need to be surgically removed. Note the date of attachment and save the tick in the event further reference is necessary. The remainder of the treatment guideline is essentially for medical personnel and includes updating tetanus status, treating any resulting medical symptoms, etc. If anyone is interested in chiggers and treatment, I can get that information and post it also. -- John Taylor -- Wild Rose Creek Apiary Southeast Missouri When in danger, or in doubt, run in circles, scream and shout! ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Sep 1996 16:30:27 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Michael L. Wallace" Subject: Re: Carniolans - "Old World," "New World," "Yugos," HELP! At 08:17 9/21/96 -0600, you wrote: >---------------------- Information from the mail header ----------------------- >Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology >Poster: Tim Channell >Subject: Re: Carniolans - "Old World," "New World," "Yugos," HELP! >------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > >At 08:20 PM 9/20/96 -0400, you wrote: >>Hello! >> >>I am quite new to beekeeping; in fact, I won't even have my first hives until >>the spring. I have heard a lot about Carniolans, and am very interested in >>starting with that type of bee because of their reputation for gentleness. >> However, now that I've been researching this bee, I find that there are "Old >>World," "New World," and Yugoslavian Carniolans. What's the difference? I >>get very different answers from each of the various apiaries I have called, >>all saying that their bees, of course, are best. >> >>Also, how does the gentleness of the Carniolans compare to the Buckfast bee, >>in which I am also very interested, and the "Midnite" hybrid bee? >> >>Thanks in advance for your assistance! >> >>Mary Caldwell >>Benicia, CA >> > >-------------------------- >I would be interested in knowning which apiaries sell the Carniolans and >Buckfast. Do any of you bee buddies known? Thanks, Tim - El Paso, Texas >Tim Channell > Don't know about the Carniolans, but B. Weaver Apiaries, in Navasota, Texas, raises the Buckfasts. Cheers, Mike Wallace Sar Shalom Apiary McKinney, Texas USA "Out of the heart, the mouth speaks." ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Sep 1996 16:30:30 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Michael L. Wallace" Subject: Re: Feeders and SUgar syrup At 10:26 9/22/96 -0700, you wrote: >---------------------- Information from the mail header ----------------------- >Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology >Poster: "Paul Cronshaw, D.C." >Subject: Feeders and SUgar syrup >------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > >It seems that I have taken a little too much honey this season from my 4 >hives and they will be short supply over the approaching winter months. The >Blue Gums do not flower until December in Santa Barbara. > >What type of feeders work the best: Division boards (full or super size), >feeder pails, or entrance feeders.? > >What ratio of sugar to water provides a good winter feed? Can honey be >added to make it more palliative? > >Thanks for any input > >Paul Cronshaw DC >Hobby Beekeeper >Santa Barbara, CA > IMHO, a gallon, glass jar, with holes poked in the top and turned upside-down on an inner cover, works the best. With the division board feeders you end up losing a frame space and tend to lose a lot of bees, due to drowning. Entrance feeders tend to be more susceptable to ant invasion and you're limited on the size of container you can place on them. Feeder pails seem to work okay. However, with the gallon jar, you can place an empty hive body over it and then put your top cover on and it's protected from the sun and wind. As far as the mix ratio, if you're wanting to build up fast (which is what you should be doing right now) feed the bees a ratio of 75% sugar to 25% water. This allows them to cap it off quicker, because they have less water to evaporate, per sugar content. Cheers, Mike Wallace Sar Shalom Apiary McKinney, Texas USA "Out of the heart, the mouth speaks." ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Sep 1996 20:31:59 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Brian R. Tucker" Subject: Smell About 3 weeks ago I bout a NUC from a fellow beekeper and have been feeding it like crazy to get ready for the cold. But my question is. When I walk up to this hive at about 3 feet away I notice that the hive has a very distinct smell to it. It isn't a rotten smell but I have never noticed it with my ohter colony. I was just wandering if this is normal or if it is something I sould look into. Thanks ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Sep 1996 23:03:35 -0300 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Stan Sandler Subject: bees and carbaryl Back in June I posted a request for information on the toxicity of the new formulation of sevin (XT, I believe it is called). The manufacturer claimed that once it had dried on the plant the bees would not carry it back into the hive. I thought perhaps fellow listees would be interested in my observations. I moved ten hives into one blueberry field that was sprayed with sevin xt the day after the spraying. This field was sprayed only on one side of a more or less central laneway. I moved eight hives into a field that was almost adjoining and had no spray. I did not have any hives die in either field, but I did see quite a few dead foragers in front of hives in the sprayed field and I assume there were many more that I did not see. The blueberry grower and myself walked through the field in the afternoon two days after spraying and made this observation: The honeybees seemed to be avoiding the sprayed side of the field. There were many bees on the unsprayed side and practically none on the sprayed side. There seemed to me to have been some difference in the number of bumblebees too, but it was not obvious as it was in the case of the honeybees and we did not do any scientific counting. I do not believe that the dearth of bees on the sprayed side was due to them dying on this side (the number of dead foragers was not that great). I think that the bees were able to sense the pesticide and avoid it. I was able to use this observation to convince another grower to delay application until after the bloom. Regards, Stan Sandler ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Sep 1996 23:08:52 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Richard Blohm Subject: Re: Smell I experienced the same thing when I first started beekeeping, that odor is probably because the bees are bringing in goldenrod honey. Sometimes a bad odor could mean something worse like AFB, but I doubt it in this case. But, I would check with the beekeeper that sold you the Nuc. Rich:) ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 22 Sep 1996 17:36:41 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Gerry Visel Subject: Re: Smoking Mean Bees -Reply Allen Dick wrote of the hives in his back yard being "tamer" than those in his "bee yard," noting that there was more human activity in his back yard. This was discussed here some time back, and one of the methods noted was used by Ormund Oebi (A-Bee?) who set some production records for honey. He would erect "wave cloths" (flags?) near nasty hives to provide the illusion of constant movement. He sure liked it. Anybody here tried it? Gerry ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 00:14:07 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Richard Blohm Subject: Re: wax The melting point of beeswax is between 62 and 65 degrees centergrade. I don't know th scortch temp but I'll do some research and get back to you, Rich ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Sep 1996 20:23:18 -0800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jerry Fries Subject: Re: Smell >I experienced the same thing when I first started beekeeping, that odor is >probably because the bees are bringing in goldenrod honey. Sometimes a bad >odor could mean something worse like AFB, but I doubt it in this case. But, >I would check with the beekeeper that sold you the Nuc. > >Rich:) Nosema also has a bad smell and is treated Fumadil B and feed if its not to late.stress causes this and is best treated ahead of anticipated stress. We use it for pre-wintering as a precaution. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 07:10:16 +0100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Sid Pullinger Subject: Wax worms (wax moths in England) <<<>>>> The moths will always be with us and they love combs which contain cocoons and pollen, i.e. brood combs. They can do little damage in combs which have contained only honey as there is insufficient protein for their development. If you leave brood combs unattended for a day or so the moths will find them and it is then too late to put them into store as the eggs will already be laid. The moths will enter the hive and attack any brood combs not covered by the bees so the first step is to keep the colonies strong and the brood chambers full. Small colonies should have small broodchambers, adding extra combs as they expand. I keep a small deep freezer in my beehouse and surplus brood combs are put into paper sacks and given forty eight hours at -20C. and then left sealed in the sacks until needed. This is effective. The larvae (we never refer to them as worms) are very tough. I have an old freezer I use as a fumigation chest, using aeetic acid to fumigate against EFB and nosema. Combs which spend two weeks in an acid atmosphere still have live wax moth larvae in them. I suspect that Apistan has no effect on adult moths or larvae. There will always be the odd larva burrowing under the brood cappings in a strong stock. The trail it makes can easily be seen when inspecting and the larva should be dug out and crushed. The only time I have ever had an explosion of moth infestation was two years ago when Varroa arrived and the policy was to use floor screens to detect the arrival and progress of the mites. The debris which piled up under the screens proved an ideal breeding ground and I suddenly found I had as many moths as bees.. That ended my use of screens. The general practice here is to keep the queen in the broodchamber and not let her wander throught the hive. All the supers are used for honey only and thus there is no problem over storage. Brood combs should never be stored without treatment. Sid P. _________________________________________________________________ Sid Pullinger Email : sidpul@aladdin.co.uk 36, Grange Rd Compuserve: 100343.1216@compuserve.com Alresford Hants SO24 9HF England ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 06:43:57 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: janet montgomery Subject: Re: bees and carbaryl At 11:03 PM 9/23/96 -0300, you wrote: >Back in June I posted a request for information on the toxicity of the new >formulation of sevin (XT, I believe it is called). The manufacturer claimed >that once it had dried on the plant the bees would not carry it back into >the hive. I thought perhaps fellow listees would be interested in my >observations. > >I moved ten hives into one blueberry field that was sprayed with sevin xt >the day after the spraying. This field was sprayed only on one side of a >more or less central laneway. I moved eight hives into a field that was >almost adjoining and had no spray. I did not have any hives die in either >field, but I did see quite a few dead foragers in front of hives in the >sprayed field and I assume there were many more that I did not see. The >blueberry grower and myself walked through the field in the afternoon two >days after spraying and made this observation: The honeybees seemed to be >avoiding the sprayed side of the field. There were many bees on the >unsprayed side and practically none on the sprayed side. There seemed to me >to have been some difference in the number of bumblebees too, but it was not >obvious as it was in the case of the honeybees and we did not do any >scientific counting. I do not believe that the dearth of bees on the >sprayed side was due to them dying on this side (the number of dead foragers >was not that great). I think that the bees were able to sense the pesticide >and avoid it. > >I was able to use this observation to convince another grower to delay >application until after the bloom. Regards, Stan Sandler > REPLY: I have some experience with SEVIN XLR as I grow pumpkins and squash and have to spray them to control spotted and striped cucumber beetles to prevent bacterial wilt and fruit scaring.. It has been reported that up to 5-7 visits are needed to effectively pollinate a pumpkin so I really have to protect my colonies. For several years I have placed two colonies within 150 to 600 feet of these pumpkins. Spraying with any Sevin Formulation up to bloom is OK as the bees will not be working the field without blossems--WATCH OUT FOR WEED BLOOMS- The SEVIN XLR formulation is a very finely ground formulation with particles in the 1-5 micron range while pollen is in the 50 micron range. This fine grind signifantly reduces the mechanical pickup of the pesticide.. Also this fomulation contains a special sticker than when the application is made with less than a 1 to 10 dilution ie: 1 quart of product to 10 quarts of water in my experience, ( label states 1-39 for washoff resistance) there is a minimal effect on bees from the residual pickup of Sevin HOWEVER, bees foraging in the time of application WILL be killed. Every year I spray SEVIN XLR on blooming pumpkins, right next to my colonies with no bee kill, I spray SEVIN XLR at 1 quart per acre in 10 quarts of water with a mist blower with no bee kill-- IF I SPRAY IN THE EVENING WHEN FEW FORAGERS ARE LEFT IN THE FIELD AND THE SPRAY CAN DRY BEFORE THE MORNING --like paint, once dry there is little effects from rewetting . especially since the bees work the folwere and not the leaves. SEVIN XLR can be used in a bee environment if used with care , following the label and GOOD BEE SENSE. DO NOT USE ANY SEVIN WETTABLE POWDER FORMULATION AROUND BEES AT ANY TIME. This caution applies to any wettable powder insecticide that can be picked up like pollen and brought back to the hive. Dan Veilleux---Columbus ,Ohio Janet Montgomery 104 Fallis Road Columbus, Ohio 43214-3724 Home: (614) 784-8334 FAX: (614) 268-3107 E-mail: montgomery.1@osu.edu ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 07:03:17 -0600 Reply-To: allend@internode.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Allen Dick Organization: The Beekeepers Subject: Re: Smoking Mean Bees -Reply > Allen Dick wrote of the hives in his back yard being "tamer" than > those in his "bee yard," noting that there was more human activity > in his back yard. Sorry. I did not say that. Someone else did. (The quote function on many mailers tends to confuse attributions after a few replies on a topic). I have never noticed the phenomenon cited , although perhaps there is some truth to the anecdotes. I read recently that wave cloths are used in the yards of Brazillian? AHB yards to make the bees used to movement. When people say, "But the bees get to know you" in reference to the number of stings I receive. I answer, "I certainly hope not". Think about it... Regards Allen W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper VE6CFK RR#1, Swalwell, Alberta Canada T0M 1Y0 Internet:dicka@cuug.ab.ca & allend@internode.net Honey. Bees, & Art ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 10:37:37 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Frederick L. Hollen" Subject: Re: Carniolans - "Old World," "New World," "Yugos," HELP! In-Reply-To: <19960923213025620.AAA191@44.ann1.dal.why.net>; from "Michael L. Wallace" at Sep 23, 96 4:30 pm Tim, Mike I have gotten some packages with ARS-Y-C-1 (Yugo) queens from Walter Kelley and they have been quite satisfactory. Two hives established in the last week of May this year produced 3 shallows full of nice honey by late August here in Virginia. Onr hive set up last year and overwintered produced 5 full shallow supers -- equal to an Italian hive ten feet away. the bees are quite gentle and easy to work, but so are my Italians. I really like both strains. FWIW Fred According to Michael L. Wallace: > > At 08:17 9/21/96 -0600, you wrote: > >---------------------- Information from the mail header ----------------------- > >Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology > >Poster: Tim Channell > >Subject: Re: Carniolans - "Old World," "New World," "Yugos," HELP! > >------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > >At 08:20 PM 9/20/96 -0400, you wrote: > >>Hello! > >> > >>I am quite new to beekeeping; in fact, I won't even have my first hives until > >>the spring. I have heard a lot about Carniolans, and am very interested in > >>starting with that type of bee because of their reputation for gentleness. > >> However, now that I've been researching this bee, I find that there are "Old > >>World," "New World," and Yugoslavian Carniolans. What's the difference? I > >>get very different answers from each of the various apiaries I have called, > >>all saying that their bees, of course, are best. > >> > >>Also, how does the gentleness of the Carniolans compare to the Buckfast bee, > >>in which I am also very interested, and the "Midnite" hybrid bee? > >> > >>Thanks in advance for your assistance! > >> > >>Mary Caldwell > >>Benicia, CA > >> > > > >-------------------------- > >I would be interested in knowning which apiaries sell the Carniolans and > >Buckfast. Do any of you bee buddies known? Thanks, Tim - El Paso, Texas > >Tim Channell > > > > Don't know about the Carniolans, but B. Weaver Apiaries, in Navasota, Texas, > raises the Buckfasts. > > > Cheers, > > > Mike Wallace > Sar Shalom Apiary > McKinney, Texas USA > "Out of the heart, the mouth speaks." > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 14:40:59 GMT Reply-To: Tim_Sterrett@westtown.edu Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Tim Sterrett Organization: Westtown School Subject: Smell >probably because the bees are bringing in goldenrod honey. For many years, I enjoyed this late season, tangy odor as a sign of autumn. Then my wife commented that it smelled like old sneakers. So now I am in a quandary about whether I like the smell of old sneakers! Has anyone documented the link between the autumn smell of hives in the northeast U.S. and goldenrod (Solidago) plants? When I stick my nose into a goldenrod flower, I do not smell the same ripe(!) aroma that I smell in front of the hives. Tim Tim Sterrett Westtown, (Southeastern) Pennsylvania, USA tim_sterrett@westtown.edu ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 11:59:27 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: David Eyre Subject: Re: Help Fellow Bee-L'ers. I received the following from the Web. Would anyone care to help these folks? >I will appreciate all the information you can send me about the >bumble bee rearing techniques, facilities and behavior for commercial >porpouses. Please let me know if there is any charge for the >information, I will be glad to cover it. > > SINCERELY > RAFAEL A. CANALE PABLOS >Agrobiologic Solutions (AGROBIOSOL CO.) > >ADRESS: AVE. BATALLA DE CHURUBUSCO #1646 > COL. CHAPULTEPEC Z.C. 80040 > CULIACAN, SINALOA, MEXICO. >PHONE/FAX: (67) 16-65-21 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 14:29:37 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Gene Spears Subject: Need an e-mail address I N T E R O F F I C E M E M O R A N D U M Date: 24-Sep-1996 02:28pm EST From: Gene Spears SPEARS Dept: Natural and Physical Science Tel No: TO: Remote Addressee ( _bee-l@cnsibm.albany.edu ) Subject: Need an e-mail address I need the e-mail address of a regular poster to this list. What command sequence do I use to get a list of bee-l subscribers and their addresses? Thanks! gene spears@bobcat.lmc.edu ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 11:32:57 -0800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jerry Fries Subject: Re: Help I too would like any and all information about bumble bees. I too will pay costs to acuire what I need. Jerry Fries ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 15:53:45 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: MIDNITEBEE Subject: WOODMAN CO. The Woodman Co.,beekeeping supplier,do the still exit? Located in Grnd.Rapids,Michigan. Phone number would be appreciated. Thanks. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 16:24:23 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Frank Battistolo Subject: Re: Need an e-mail address > I N T E R O F F I C E M E M O R A N D U M > > Date: 24-Sep-1996 02:28pm EST > From: Gene Spears > SPEARS > Dept: Natural and Physical Science > Tel No: > >TO: Remote Addressee ( _bee-l@cnsibm.albany.edu ) > > >Subject: Need an e-mail address > > I need the e-mail address of a regular poster to this > list. What command sequence do I use to get a list of bee-l > subscribers and their addresses? > > Thanks! > gene > spears@bobcat.lmc.edu > Look it up in the Four11 white page directory. The Url is http://www.Four11.com frankb@cyberstore.ca ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 18:55:26 -0500 Reply-To: bbirkey@interaccess.com Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Barry Birkey Organization: Birkey.Com Subject: Re: Smell Tim Sterrett wrote: > > >probably because the bees are bringing in goldenrod honey. > > For many years, I enjoyed this late season, tangy odor as a sign of > autumn. Then my wife commented that it smelled like old sneakers. So now I > am in a quandary about whether I like the smell of old sneakers! > Has anyone documented the link between the autumn smell of hives in the > northeast U.S. and goldenrod (Solidago) plants? When I stick my nose into a > goldenrod flower, I do not smell the same ripe(!) aroma that I smell in front > of the hives. > > Tim > Tim Sterrett > Westtown, (Southeastern) Pennsylvania, USA > tim_sterrett@westtown.edu The "tangy odor" from the hives in the autumn has got to be from the particular nectar type being stored. I would also be inclined to say that it is goldenrod as that is the dominant flowering source in my area also. It is something I look forward to every fall. Working in my office with the windows open and having this very distinct aroma cross my nose is a real delite. I still believe old sneakers are in a class all by themselves! It's one of those smells that you never forget and have a real hard time trying to explain it to someone. It's like the smell of a new car, or as a woodworker, the smell of a particular species of wood or as a father, the smell of one of my kids after they have been playing out in the sun all day. It's not a bad smell, just distinct. I think it's yet another small joy of beekeeping. I vote thumbs up for "the smell" coming from my hives. -Barry......has a weird sense of smell -- Barry Birkey West Chicago, Illinois USA bbirkey@interaccess.com http://www.birkey.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 17:41:07 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Bruce Hamilton Subject: [Fwd: Bumble bees] To: Bruce Hamilton Date: Mon, 20 May 96 18:52:37 -0800 Message-ID: From: Andrew Matheson Subject: Bumble bees Content-Type: text/x-mindlink; charset=us-ascii To: Multiple recipients of list BEE-L A new book on bumble bees, just published, is 'Bumble bees for pleasure and profit'. Chapters covered are: Why bumble bees are special Bumble bees at home and at school Bumble bees as pollinators of crops and wild flowers Bumble bees as pollinators of glasshouse crops Commercial rearing of bumble bees This is very much intended for the non-scientific reader; containing lots of practical information in a readable form while still being authoritative. It was published because of the growing interest among beekeepers, gardeners and naturalists in these insects. BBPP is priced at (I think) 7.99 British pounds, with a small surcharge for international mailing. Enquiries to ibra@cardiff.ac.uk ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 21:20:06 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Dave from Scranton Subject: Bees knowing you Comments: To: Allen Dick In-Reply-To: On Tue, 24 Sep 1996, Allen Dick wrote: > > When people say, "But the bees get to know you" in reference to the > number of stings I receive. I answer, "I certainly hope not". Think > about it... On Saturday I was out at my lone hive that I got in June and it's still going like gangbusters in NE PA (well it's cold this week so maybe they've slowed down). The hive is at a friend's house that ahs 9 acres of field and woods, *TONS* of goldenrod, asters and mustard, all being worked. I was putting things back together and got stung in the wrist (OUCH!) right by where you take your pulse. I quickly finished up and got out of there. After puting some After Bite(tm) on my sting which proved fairly ineffective. I got a dring of watera dn went back out to a spot about 30 feet to the left of the hive where I could watch the entrance thru the bushes. I was also about three feet under where they were coming over the bushes toward the fields. After about 5 minutes, I caught a bee out of my peripherial vision that was turning around to come back at me. It buzzed my head and chased me all the way back up to the house diving at my head. A little while later I tried a spot about 60 to the front right and got chased again. I have a feeling they knew I was the big smokey, smelling guy who was just digging in their house. About my bite which happened around 2pm on Saturday...I'll toss this up to you for an opinion. I got it on the wrist by where you take your pulse. I generally get a spot about the size of a US dime and it'll itch like crazy for about 5 days, then it's gone. This time it IMMEDIATELY started to swell much bigger and I assumed it was because she hit a vein and I was going to just be a little bruised. Well when I woke up Sunday, my write was swollen to twice the size and was beet red. The swelling started around to the front side of my wrist, and up my arm. By the time I went to the Emergency Room at 6pm, it was about 60% up to my wrist and there were streaks up my arm along a vein at my elbow and on my bicep. We thought blood poisioning, but the Dr. ruled tha tout due to no fever and no pain. My regular antihistamine and ibruprofin didn't seem to do anything, so I was given a steroid to take the sweelling down which it did by the next morning. The Dr's. other theory was that it was a good dose that was strong enough that when my body was moving the poison away from that area, my body was still reacting to it. I had a theory (that the dr. thought was plausable) that I have seasonal allergies and I got some pollen from something I'm allergic to along with the sting. His other theory was that I'm getting sensative to the venom and might take up another hobby or get desensatized. Anyone wanna take a stab at what it was? ****************************************************************************** Dave D. Cawley, Maitre d' | ***ALERT shameless plug ALERT*** The Internet Cafe | Scranton, Pennsylvania | ASK ME FOR A COPY OF WEBPHONE!!! (717) 344-1969 | (or try www.scranton.com/webphone) ddc1@lydian.scranton.com | ****************************************************************************** URL => http://www.scranton.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 18:14:33 -0800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jerry Fries Subject: Re: Bees knowing you It is hard to put personality into a typed response My answer is not intended to be anything but sympathetic.Why a bee would single you out to sting when a nectar flow is going on I have no clue at all.But the fact that you feel the need to run for it when bees get excited,and the fact that the need seems justified because of your bodys reaction to stings I'd say your doctor is right find another hobby. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 22:25:36 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Gerard Worrell Subject: judging standards for propolis I'm interested in finding out if anyone has published standards for judging propolis at a honey show or county/state fair. What size sample do you use for entry? advTHANKSance (Thanks in advance) Jerry Gerard P.Worrell Beekeeper with 25 colonies (410)257-3267 Dunkirk,MD USA Pres. Assoc. of Southern MD Beekeepers Life member MD State Beekeepers Association,VP for Calvert Co. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 20:33:25 -0800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Tom & Carol Elliott Organization: Home Subject: Re: Bees knowing you Dave from Scranton wrote: > > Anyone wanna take a stab at what it was? > It is possible you are developing a sensitivity to bee venom. But, before you give up, be sure. Eight or ten years ago I got a single sting on one ankle. I was on crutches for three days. Another time when was robbing a hive and had left my brain home I got approximately 20 stings on each ankle. One swelled up, and I couldn't walk for three days. The other ankle had no reaction. I still keep bees and do not have any other sort of reaction to stings. Another "Honeybee Mystery". -- "Test everything. Hold on to the good." (1 Thessalonians 5:21) Tom Elliott Eagle River, Alaska beeman@alaska.net ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 01:23:41 -0400 Reply-To: visel7@FreeMark.COM Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Gerry Visel Subject: Finding someone's email address >From the "welcome" message you get after subscribing to BEE-L: "Please note that it is presently possible for other people to determine that you are signed up to this list through the use of the "REVIEW" command, which returns the e-mail address and name of all the subscribers. If you do not want your name to be visible, just issue a "SET BEE-L CONCEAL" command to LISTSERV@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU (or LISTSERV@ALBNYVM1.BITNET). More information on LISTSERV commands can be found in the LISTSERV reference card, which you can retrieve by sending an "INFO REFCARD" command." Gerry Visel VISEL7@freenet.com <---new home address ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 00:28:05 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Gerry Visel Subject: Bees knowing you -Reply Dave, As far as the chasing you after you got stung, that was the alarm pheramome (sp?) that comes with stings. One sting begets more... What's "AfterBite?" For your sake, I hope it's not the "either you get more tolerant to them or you get more sensitive to them" working the wrong way! Gerry Visel VISEL7@freemark.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 02:30:31 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Brian Gant <106213.3313@compuserve.com> Subject: Brother Adam's research I showed Kevin Palm's message to Peter Donovan at Buckfast Abbey today. Peter has worked with Brother Adam for the last 30 years or so The Buckfast strain is being maintained along the same lines as before and some strains are now being selected and tested for resistance to varroa, but this is not a development to be rushed. The October issue of "BEEKEEPING" reprints an interview with Brother Adam when he was 90, and still very with-it. In that interview, looking to the future, he said, "I don't expect anyone to carry on exactly as I have done, but there is no building or construction work to be done and all the equipment is there. Anybody should be able to carry on. The secret is to note outstanding colonies for choice of line breeding, and cross them to get hybrid vigour. Mr Donovan has done this successfully when I have been away." ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 11:14:49 GMT+02 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Christian Schulte AG Kluge Organization: Technical University Darmstadt Subject: mexico Hi all, I would like to contact mexican beekeeper. I plan to visit Mexico in Dec./Jan. and I m also interested in meeting collegues in that country. Any idea? Any mex. beekeeper in BEE-L? Thanks ChristianChristian Schulte Wiesenstr. 6 D-64405 Fischbachtal Tel.: 06166/8060 e-mail: schultec@bio1.bio.th-darmstadt.de ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 11:00:00 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ted Wout <102336.711@CompuServe.COM> Subject: Re: Bees knowing you Dave from Scranton wrote: > We thought blood poisoning, but the Dr. ruled tha tout due to no >fever and no pain. My regular antihistamine and ibruprofin didn't seem to >do anything, so I was given a steroid to take the sweelling down which it >did by the next morning. The Dr's. other theory was that it was a good >dose that was strong enough that when my body was moving the poison away >from that area, my body was still reacting to it. I had a theory (that the >dr. thought was plausable) that I have seasonal allergies and I got some >pollen from something I'm allergic to along with the sting. His other >theory was that I'm getting sensative to the venom and might take up >another hobby or get desensatized. I have been told that ibuprofen or any drug that ends with the extension -profen should not be used by beekeepers. Apparently, there is something in this drug that heightens one's sensitivity to bee venom. I cannot remember or verify the sources but I have heard it more than once. Maybe it was even on this list. Has anyone else heard this anywhere? ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 11:39:00 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "William J. Morrison" Subject: Re: Smell Comments: To: Barry Birkey In-Reply-To: <324874EE.2996@interaccess.com> The fragrance noticed at the hives in autumn in N.E. North America (at least in my part of it, which is soutcentral Pennsylvania) is IMHO that of the small white asters. I have never noticed any goldenrods with this fragrance, but the asters emit it. The honey from this source has a similar fragrance. It crystallizes rapidly. Bill Morrison wjmorr@ark.ship.edu On Tue, 24 Sep 1996, Barry Birkey wrote: > Tim Sterrett wrote: > > > > >probably because the bees are bringing in goldenrod honey. > > > > For many years, I enjoyed this late season, tangy odor as a sign of > > autumn. Then my wife commented that it smelled like old sneakers. So now I > > am in a quandary about whether I like the smell of old sneakers! > > Has anyone documented the link between the autumn smell of hives in the > > northeast U.S. and goldenrod (Solidago) plants? When I stick my nose into a > > goldenrod flower, I do not smell the same ripe(!) aroma that I smell in front > > of the hives. > > > > Tim > > Tim Sterrett > > Westtown, (Southeastern) Pennsylvania, USA > > tim_sterrett@westtown.edu > > The "tangy odor" from the hives in the autumn has got to be from the particular nectar > type being stored. I would also be inclined to say that it is goldenrod as that is the > dominant flowering source in my area also. It is something I look forward to every fall. > Working in my office with the windows open and having this very distinct aroma cross my > nose is a real delite. I still believe old sneakers are in a class all by themselves! It's one of > those smells that you never forget and have a real hard time trying to explain it to > someone. It's like the smell of a new car, or as a woodworker, the smell of a particular > species of wood or as a father, the smell of one of my kids after they have been playing > out in the sun all day. It's not a bad smell, just distinct. I think it's yet another small joy > of beekeeping. I vote thumbs up for "the smell" coming from my hives. > > -Barry......has a weird sense of smell > > -- > Barry Birkey > West Chicago, Illinois USA > bbirkey@interaccess.com > http://www.birkey.com > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 11:29:47 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ted Wout <102336.711@CompuServe.COM> Subject: Ibuprofen and Bee Venom Immunity Ah the joys of reading old Bee Line logs. For those who really enjoy this list and haven't been on it more that a year or two, there is a wealth of information out there in the logs. It's like getting an overdose of bee line all at once. You also get a real feel for the long time personalities on the list. I found my sources of info on the ibuprofen thing. It was here on the bee line! I've downloaded everything from the listserver and store it on my hard drive in compressed format. (Thank God for PKzip and a grep utility) Having these handy can be a real benefit if you run into something and need help relatively quick. Back in June 1993 and March 1994 I found these posts which state the claim I made earlier on the list. I strongly recommend that you rid your medicine chest of the -profen drugs. Dr. Mom at my house did about a year ago. I wonder what else can heighten our sensitivity to bee venom? Anyway, here are the quotes: In June 1993 Tom Sanford wrote: >An interesting postscript to the above is that "new" drugs can >sometimes cause unknown complications. For example, a recent re- >published article in the Newsletter of the Florida State Beekeepers >Association, obtained from the Maryland Beekeeping Newsletter, >indicates that at least two cases have been reported of anti- >inflammatory drug (ibuprofen, fenoprofen, naproxen, etc.) use >correlated with loss of immunity to bee stings, resulting in >allergic reactions. This originally was published in Understanding >Prescription Drugs by Dorothy L. Smith (pp. 270-271) and referenced >in the British Medical Journal 292:378, 1986. The bottom line from >all this is apparent. There's still a lot to learn. In March 1994 John Gates wrote: >Your memory is pretty good Rick. This phenomenon has been mentioned in a >number >of journals and newsletters lately.The last article I read was in the Feb/94 >issue of the American Bee Journal, pg. 120. Originally, "Understanding >Prescription Drugs by Dorothy Smith was published in the British Medical >Journal. 292:378, 1986. The nonsteroidal anti-inflammatory drugs mentioned were >ibuprofen, fenoprofen, naproxen, ketoprofen, sulindac, piroxicam, suprofen and >tolmetin. Was your wife using any of those? ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 08:58:08 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Kerry Clark of AGF 784-2225 fax (604) 784 2299" Subject: Re: Need an e-mail address In-Reply-To: <199609242324.QAA28711@yvr.cyberstore.ca> Send a message to the listserv address you used to sign on to bee-L with REVIEW BEE-L as the only message. You'll get a list of all subscribers, other than those who have requested that their names not be listed. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 12:07:11 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Aaron Morris Subject: IBUPROFEN * MEMORANDUM * TO: Beekeepers FROM: Aaron Morris DATE: September 25, 1996 SUBJECT: IBUPROFEN REPRINTED FROM: MISSISSIPPI DEPARTMENT OF AGRICULTURE AND COMMERCE BUREAU OF PLANT INDUSTRY P.O. BOX 5207 MISSISSIPPI STATE, MS APRIL, 1993 The following is an interesting and need-to-know article printed in the Maryland Beekeeping newsletter with the per- mission of the author. It is taken from the book "Under- standing Prescription Drugs", by Dorthy L. Smith, Pharm D., pp. 270 and 271; Reference: British Medical Journal 292:378, 1986. DID YOU KNOW THAT? Beekeepers should think twice before taking some anti- inflammatory drugs. The drugs may reverse their immunity to bee stings. During the last few years, several new nonsteroidal anti- inflammatory drugs have been developed to relieve pain and reduce stiffness, swelling and joint pain associated with inflammation. Such drugs include ibuprofen, fenoprofen, naproxen, ketoprofen, sulindac, piroxicam, suprofen and tolmetin. It is well known that beekeepers develop an immunity to bee stings and it has been reported that some people get tempo- rary relief from the pain of arthritis if they sustain se- veral bee stings. Two cases have recently been reported of people with an immunity to bee stings taking a nonsteroidal anti-inflammatory drug and suffering serious allergic re- actions to bee and wasp stings. A 66-year old beekeeper had developed an apparent immunity to bee stings over six years. She was prescribed a nonsteroidal anti-inflammatory drug for osteoarthrosis. A few months after taking the drug, she was stung on the wrists while working around the beehives and within 15 min- utes developed heart palpitations, a rash and swelling of the mouth and tounge, making it difficult for her to breath. She stopped taking the drug and 48 hours later when she was stung again, she developed no reaction. Another report describes the 48-year old wife of a beekeeper who had been taking a nonsteroidal anti-inflammatory drug for five months for osteoarthritis. She had previously had only skin reactions to wasp stings but one day she developed widespread swelling, red, itchy rash, heart palpitations and shortness of breath within two minutes of being stung by a wasp. Hospitalization was necessary. Until more is learned about the reason for these reactions, beekeepers should be aware of potential hazards associated with these drugs and bee stings. >---- End of Article ----< I haven't seen anything related since this was published, but until I do, I avoid the new fangled pain killers and stick to good old asprin. No, I'm not an old fart stuck in my ways, just sticking with a tried and true (since the Romans) remedy. I'm 42 and figure why tempt fate? Good luck! Aaron Morris - I think, therefore I bee! ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 12:46:34 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "" Subject: Re: WOODMAN CO. Baxter Woodman sold the company to Dadants in the 1970s. The building was the Dadant branch until they built the Gerald Ford Presidential Library on the location. The Dadant branch has then moved at least twice since then. Larry Connor ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 10:52:07 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "DEL-AIR Systems, Ltd." Subject: Ventilation Rates for bees We have a beekeeper who wants to purchase some ventilation equipment from us. Unfortunately, we don't have much experience in this area and I would appreciate it if anyone could enlighten me on the recommended ventilation rates and common practices of bee keepers with regards to ventilation. Thanks, Larry Jorgenson R&D Manager ______________________________________________________________________________ DEL-AIR Systems, Ltd. Toll Free: 1-800-667-1722 1704 4th Avenue, P.O. Box 2500 Phone: (306) 682-5011 Humboldt, SK, Canada S0K 2A0 Fax: (306) 682-5559 [Ag Ventilation & General Plastic Products] mailto:delair@sk.sympatico.ca ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 09:06:52 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Kerry Clark of AGF 784-2225 fax (604) 784 2299" Subject: Re: Bees knowing you In-Reply-To: <960925150000_102336.711_HHQ54-3@CompuServe.COM> I'd guess that initially, soneone's wrist, as well as being available to be stung, might have had a watch band, adding a bit of "animal" odor and crossing the threshold of inciting a bee to sting. Once the sting has happened, a sting or alarm pheromone (from the bee) takes over to identify the "intruder" for while (an hour maybe). More severe reactions to bee stings have been associated with use of ibuprofen, but there's a fair range even in an individual Kerry Clark, Apiculture Specialist B.C. Ministry of Agriculture 1201 103 Ave Dawson Creek B.C. V1G 4J2 CANADA Tel (604) 784-2225 fax (604) 784-2299 INTERNET KCLARK@GALAXY.GOV.BC.CA . ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 10:14:37 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Kerry Clark of AGF 784-2225 fax (604) 784 2299" Subject: Re: Ventilation Rates for bees In-Reply-To: You could: Check with the Provincial Apiculturist John Gruszka (306) 953 2790 or get the publication from Alberta Agriculture: Darby, D. 1988 Overwintering buildings for bees. Engineering Branch, Alberta Agriculture, Lethbridge, Alberta or check the review of overwintering in The Hive and the Honeybee 1992, pages 852 to 868. Kerry Clark, Apiculture Specialist B.C. Ministry of Agriculture 1201 103 Ave Dawson Creek B.C. V1G 4J2 CANADA Tel (604) 784-2225 fax (604) 784-2299 INTERNET KCLARK@GALAXY.GOV.BC.CA ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 10:33:52 GMT Reply-To: Chris@calland.demon.co.uk Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Chris Calland Subject: Novelist seeking help Hi, I'm a novelist and would be so grateful if somebody who knows a bit about beekeeping (in Florida) could mail me. There are just a few important paragraphs in my novel, so I wouldn't swamp you with questions. But I want to get an incident exactly right and authentic. Thanks in anticipation. -- Chris Calland. chris@calland.demon.co.uk ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 09:52:19 +0000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Mason Harris Organization: SMCOE Subject: Heat Hi Bee Folks! I have a honey house in my basement which is usually around 57 degrees F, the perfect temp. for the crystallization of my honey. I presently have about 300lbs of honey which was starting to crystallize. I bought a utility shelf, 6x4x2 and duct tapped 2" styrofoam cut to size around all sides, top and bottom. I am able to get the top shelves up to 95-100 degrees F and the bottom to about 85-90 degrees. I was able to re-liquify the thickening honey in gallon glass jars by keeping them close to the light bulbs. I am using 2-60Watt bulbs. My question is, what will happen to the honey if I keep it at those temps over the winter. I know it will stay liquid, but is it so hot it will change the taste or composition of the honey? What is the ideal temp. to keep the honey at over a long period of time? I remember reading something about not heating honey over 115-120 degrees as it may spoil or change the honey in some way. Am I in danger of losing my stock? Thanks for your help. -- Mason Harris, MA (\ SMCOE Educational Audiologist -{ ||| 8- smharris@ed.co.sanmateo.ca.us (/ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 12:46:24 -0600 Reply-To: allend@internode.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is Comments: RFC822 error: Incorrect or incomplete address field found and ignored. From: Allen Dick Organization: The Beekeepers Subject: Re: Ventilation Rates for bees > You could: > Check with the Provincial Apiculturist John Gruszka (306) 953 > 2790 > > or get the publication from Alberta Agriculture: > > Darby, D. 1988 Overwintering buildings for bees. Engineering > Branch, Alberta Agriculture, Lethbridge, Alberta > > or check the review of overwintering in The Hive and the Honeybee > 1992, pages 852 to 868. One thing i noticed in reading about indoor wintering is the requirement for 24 to 30 cubic feet of space per hive. I found this somewhat discouraging, since a hive is about 4 cubic feet in itself (2 standard brood chambers). the amazingly large amount of extra space means a large facility cost compared to what would be the case if only the amount of space necessary to move up and own isles were required. i wonder why such a large amount is specified -- at least in the articles i read, and wonder if anyone has experience with using less space. Regards Allen W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper VE6CFK RR#1, Swalwell, Alberta Canada T0M 1Y0 Internet:dicka@cuug.ab.ca & allend@internode.net Honey. Bees, & Art ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 12:46:24 -0600 Reply-To: allend@internode.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is Comments: RFC822 error: Incorrect or incomplete address field found and ignored. From: Allen Dick Organization: The Beekeepers Subject: Re: Bees knowing you > I'd guess that initially, soneone's wrist, as well as being > available to be stung, might have had a watch band, adding a bit > of "animal" odor and crossing the threshold of inciting a bee to > sting. the colour contast between the band and the wrist also attracts the bees. They seem particularly attracted to sting in areas where there are strong visual contrasts, movement, and/or moisture. i assume that a high contrast area appears analagous to movement in the bees way of seeing things. Regards Allen W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper VE6CFK RR#1, Swalwell, Alberta Canada T0M 1Y0 Internet:dicka@cuug.ab.ca & allend@internode.net Honey. Bees, & Art ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 12:58:17 -0600 Reply-To: allend@internode.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Allen Dick Organization: The Beekeepers Subject: Re: Heat > I am able > to get the top shelves up to 95-100 degrees F and the bottom to > about 85-90 degrees. I was able to re-liquify the thickening honey > in gallon glass jars by keeping them close to the light bulbs. I am > using 2-60Watt bulbs. My question is, what will happen to the honey > if I keep it at those temps over the winter. I know it will stay > liquid, but is it so hot it will change the taste or composition of > the honey? It depends on the type of honey. some darken very dramatically, and fast -- from water white to black in a year or two. some do not change as much. Generally, you can figure that honey will not benefit from temperatures over room temp for any period of time. > What is the ideal temp. to keep the honey at over a long > period of time? Freezers are good. Honey, once liquid, will not set up while kept at freezing temps. It does not freeze, but rather gets like cold tar. > I remember reading something about not heating > honey over 115-120 degrees as it may spoil or change the honey in > some way. Am I in danger of losing my stock? Yup. over time, it will deteriorate at these temperatures, but remember, people eat honey in countries where the normal daytime temps are well over 100 degrees F. ...And the hive is typically 95 degrees -- at least near the brood -- if the bees can arrange to keep it that way. Mind you, they probably do not care about the colour and flavour in the way we do. Time and temperature combine to have an adverse effect. 160 degrees F. for seconds or minutes is not as bad as temperatures of 100 degrees over months. Regards Allen W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper VE6CFK RR#1, Swalwell, Alberta Canada T0M 1Y0 Internet:dicka@cuug.ab.ca & allend@internode.net Honey. Bees, & Art ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 08:39:06 +1100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Chris Allen Subject: Re: IBUPROFEN At 12:07 PM 25/09/96 EDT, you wrote: > SUBJECT: IBUPROFEN > REPRINTED FROM: > APRIL, 1993 > The following ...... is taken from the book "Under- > standing Prescription Drugs", by Dorthy L. Smith, Pharm D., > pp. 270 and 271; Reference: British Medical Journal 292:378, > 1986. > DID YOU KNOW THAT? The rest of the article quotes 2 anecdotes about beekeepers who had developed good tolerance for stings becoming very sensitive to stings after taking some "new fangled" drugs. The article warns beekeepers to be careful until more is known about the subject. The original article quoted is 10 years old. Has there been any more research on this topic in the last 10 years? There has been quite a bit of discussion on this topic lately. A lot of it appears to come from people like myself with very little (no?) understanding of pharmacology. Consequently I am not sure how much confidence I should put on these contributions. It would help if subscribers could find/quote some authoritative and up to date research on this point. I am in the software industry and cannot help in this direction. I have seen contributions from people in medicine. There are probably several subscribers with connections in medical research. If you are one of these people, please dig around and see what you can find. I am editor for our association's new letter and would very much like to publish something on this topic but I need to find something that is "officially recognized". Regards Chris Allen ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 00:01:25 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Richard Blohm Subject: Re: Heat You have got at nice system there for warming and decrystilizing honey. However once you have reliquified the honey you can then store it at 53degrees and it will not crystilize as fast as the first time. If you want to know how heat effects honey, try this. Put a jar of honey in the freezer for a year, then take it out and compare it to honey stored at 95degrees and 53degrees and you will have your answer. Honey gets darker and loses flavor over time and heat exceleraits the process. Rich Blohm ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 08:29:44 GMT+02 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Christian Schulte AG Kluge Organization: Technical University Darmstadt REVIEW BEE-LChristian Schulte Wiesenstr. 6 D-64405 Fischbachtal Tel.: 06166/8060 e-mail: schultec@bio1.bio.th-darmstadt.de ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 09:45:44 +0100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Morten Brixtofte Petersen Subject: Re: Bees knowing you Hi bee liners! In a recent message Dave D. Cawley reported some serious swelling, and some bees chasing him. If I am stung in my hand, my arm will swell double size up to the elbow or more within 24 hours. Of course this worries me. But other beekeepers that have kept bees for many years experiences the same reactions and with time (and stings) they say the swelling fades quicker. "The hive and Honeybee" resent version has a very good chapter on venomous incects and reactions to stings. As I remember it, they divede reactions to stings in different groups: Small local reactions, large local reactions, allergic reactions etc. As I understood it, there is no connexion between large local reactions and allergy - can any body correct me on this? I am not a medical person. Bees chasing you: I have a hive in my garden, it is placed by the hedge with a fence in front to force the bees up (180 cm). Next to this fence I grow vegetabels. Twice this summer I have been stung working silently picking berries or digging potatoes. In both instances the bee went directly for me, and it was more than a week after I had worked these bees. I think they know the "bad" smell of me, since neigther my wife or children have been stung. 2 instances is not much, but if you have upset a colony working it (wearing full gear), do not go near (10 m in the fligth direction) that colony without veil for the rest of the day or they will go for you. FWIW Morten (mp@kvl.dk) ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 20:20:59 +1100 Reply-To: nickw@wave.co.nz Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Nick Wallingford Organization: Nat Beekeepers Assn of NZ Subject: Re: too much honey > As was mentioned, however, sometimes the bees consolidate or add to the > little bit of honey, leaving patches of honey in the supers, too little > to bother extracting. > > In this case, and even though it is a bother, you can scratch open any > capped cells and put the partly filled supers UNDER the brood nest. I > got this advice from an experienced beekeeper, and haven't done it > often, but the couple of times I've tried it, the bees removed the honey > completely. As the fall brood emerges, it leaves space for storage. > Remove the cleaned supers when it's barely warm enough that bees can > still fly home. (before it gets too cold). Here in New Zealand, another trick I've seen is to place a piece of sacking that is smaller than a box size below the box(es) with scraps of honey (again, make sure they've been scratched to expose the honey). The sacking should be about 30-50mm (1 1/2 to 2 inches) smaller on each side, so the bees can come up from around the sides. The cluster won't move up there, and the bees will just 're-pack' the bits of honey around the broodnest area. (\ Nick Wallingford {|||8- home nickw@wave.co.nz (/ work nw1@boppoly.ac.nz NZ Beekeeping http://www.wave.co.nz/pages/nickw/nzbkpg.htm ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 09:10:08 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: David Eyre Subject: Re: Need an e-mail address > Send a message to the listserv address you used to sign on to bee-L > with > > REVIEW BEE-L > > as the only message. > > You'll get a list of all subscribers, other than those who have > requested that their names not be listed. Sorry, this info is incorret. I recently asked for review Bee-L and was told by Eric (Listserv) that I was not authorised. It seems that the command was rescinded as the junk mail people were abusing it. **************************************************** * David Eyre 9 Progress Drive, Unit 2, * * The Beeworks, Orillia, Ontario, L3V 6H1. * * beeworks@muskoka.net 705-326-7171 * * http://www.muskoka.net/~beeworks * * Agents for: E H Thorne & B J Sherriff UK. * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 04:13:54 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "OX O.A.S.I.S." Comments: To: "John E. Verin" , Andy Nachbaur , essi@ix.netcom.comThu, r.j.wootton@cen.ex.ac.uk, sabpam@THOR.CF.AC.UK, sustag-public@amani.ces.ncsu.edu ______________________________________________________________________________ This message is to inform you of a new discussion group that you are all invited to join. This group will discuss issues regarding these community service projects: (Food Relief, Community Gardening, Arts & Crafts, and Sustainable Agriculture). To find out more about this group check our website: (http://www.gnofn.org/~oxoasis) or send this message for more information: ____________________________________________ Send to: Majordomo@igc.apc.org Message: info ox-oasis ____________________________________________ If you wish to subscribe send the following message.: ________________________________ Send to: Majordomo@igc.apc.org Message: subscribe ox-oasis ________________________________ If you are new to this then send us a message at (oxoasis@gnofn.org) and let us know that you would like to subscribe to the discussion group. We will see that your name gets added to the list. Sincerely, ox ******************************************************************************* O.O.A.S.I.S., Inc. (http://www.gnofn.org/~oxoasis) Cruelty-free Sustainable Agriculture and Food Relief If possible, please add this link to your website. ******************************************************************************* ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 09:48:15 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ted Fischer Subject: Immune Reactions to Stings REGARDING Immune Reactions to Stings So much has recently been written on this topic that I'll follow up with a new post title. On Tues, 9/24, Dave Cawley reported on a large swelling of his forearm following a sting to his wrist, and wondered what could have caused such a reaction. On Wednesday, 9/25, Tom Elliott related a similar incident following a number of stings to his ankles. And finally, on Thursday, 9/26, Morten Petersen explained that reactions to stings fall in three groups, small local reactions (the majority of our cases, fortunately), large local reactions, and "allergic" reactions (systemic reactions). Actually, all of these reactions are technically known as allergic reactions, differing only in degree. What Dave and Tom experienced fall into the second of these categories, the large local reaction, and are very typical of this kind of response. Most of the time, our reactions are the small local kind, and with continued exposure (at least 100 stings/year) will diminish in intensity with time. Occasionally, the other two will be experienced, and should be treated with extreme respect. The large local reaction is a warning sign that your body may be developing a dangerous overreaction to bee venom. The systemic reaction is far more serious - it can kill you. For this reason, it is of utmost importance that *every* beekeeper get a prescription for Epipen (injectible epinephrine solution) and keep it at hand whenever you work your bees or especially when you allow someone of unknown sensitivity around your bees. The systemic reaction can knock a person unconscious within *three to five minutes*, can totally restrict ones airway (choking one to death), can depress respiration and pulse rate down to zero. In short, it is nothing to take lightly. It also has been reported here that certain common anti-inflammatory drugs (e.g., Ibuprofen) can diminish the ability of ones body to react normally to stings. Sometimes, a large local reaction may occur due to some totally unknown reason; a beekeeper who has gone about ones business for years suddenly develops it out of the blue. One must act prudently, of course, not giving an Epipen injection whenever a small local swelling occurs, but one will rather quickly known when a sting reaction is getting out of hand, and Epipen is the single treatment of choice for this situation. Ted Fischer ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 10:50:33 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Dave Green, Eastern Pollinator Newsletter" Subject: Beekeepers and Hurricane Fran - Victims Again? Your bees came through the storm remarkably well? The bees are looking quite good, hanging out the front, sassy as can be? There's lots of goldenrod, with asters right behind, which were basically unaffected by the storm? A fallen tree crushed a hive or two, but, except for the plague of yellow jackets trying to rob the bees, you are feeling pleased that the prospects look quite good, and at least the storm hasn't hurt you too bad in the beekeeping realm? A secondary disaster may be in store for you and you MUST take some forceful steps to avert it. In a couple of weeks you may find your hives changed into tiny, weak nucs, with only three or four frames of bees left, too weak to go out and get their winter provisions (goldenrod & aster). They may have frames of chilled brood, because there are too few adult bees to cover the brood on a cold night, and now they have to engage in carrying out the dead, instead of productive work. They may be too small to make a decent cluster to insulate themselves against winter cold, and the first cold spell will get the hive. Or they may even have stored away poisoned pollen to consume during the cold weather, when no fresh pollen is available. This is exactly what happened to me after Hurricane Hugo. Massive aerial applications were made, in violation of label directions, that severely damaged my business, and nearly wiped out wild pollinators in some areas. The times of application were set by guesswork, rather than any actual observations of when bees were foraging. Many of the applications were done on warm, sunny afternoons when bees were all over goldenrod, and the bees just dropped. There is no question that the areas where Hurricane Fran and other storms have dropped a lot of rain are having mosquito problems. But, insecticides used to kill adult mosquitoes are also toxic to bees, and label directions forbid application during the times bees are foraging. Obedience to label directions is required by law. The kicker is that the damage is so hard to prove afterwards, and it's nearly impossible to collect any compensation for damage, even though it was caused by an illegal act. Here in South Carolina, the enforcement people are basically on the side of the applicators. The enforcement is part of Clemson University. The big corportations that donate to it, have bought the best regulators money can buy. The regulators try their best to look the other way; they refuse to spot-check applicators; and we only get action, when a violation practically kicks the regulators in the teeth. This means that if you want any recourse, you've got to take preventative action. Don't wait until you get hit. Even if you are hit, the sprays used for mosquitoes tend to be quick acting, and most bees never make it home. There may be very few dead bees at the hives, to collect for evidence. Get some fresh tapes for your camcorder and conduct a Beekeepers' Neighborhood Watch. Document any violations, as they happen. But first document the health and strength of your hives. Pop the covers, and show the bees covering ten frames and spilling over the sides. Open up a few and show that there are eight or nine frames of brood in each one. This will give a basis of comparison, if you do get hit. Then, you'll have the sad job of filming the difference. But bend your efforts to make sure that you don't get hit. And document every step. Find out who is doing applications in your area, and talk to them. Point out that it is a violation to apply while bees are foraging, that there is a lot of goldenrod in bloom, and that bees WILL be foraging on that goldenrod. Offer to supply the applicator with a monitor hive so that he can determine, for sure, the times that the bees are foraging. Always make clear that pesticide use is not the problem, MISUSE is the problem. Applications made in compliance with label directions, will not cause significant damage to the bees. A monitor hive is a hive placed on the type of forage that will be within the application area. The applicator can easily pull up to the hive(s) and watch them from a closed vehicle. Goldenrod pollen is distinctive and easily spotted from this moderate and safe distance. You probably can set the hive somewhere right near the airport, so the applicator need only take a couple minutes to see if the bees are still working. It's likely that he will refuse the monitor hive. But document that you offered. Let him know that you will be out with a camcorder, recording applications, and he has nothing to worry about, if he KNOWS that bees are not foraging at the time of application. He may try to get YOU to protect the bees. Point out that if he obeys the label, no further protection is necessary. Is this his statement of intent to ignore the label? If he unwittingly misuses a pesticide, it is a violation, but wilful misuse makes it a criminal act, and he could be prosecuted. (And your discussion with him now is evidence that he is aware of the label directions, and perhaps has stated his intention to ignore them.) Also point out that the label refers to bees in general, not just those that are kept. Demanding that the beekeeper protect the bees, will not protect other pollinators. Furthermore, the demand that you protect the bees, is a seizure of your property, without compensation, in violation of your civil rights. If you are a commercial beekeeper, you may have to travel, hire labor, etc. And, if there are trees down, you may not even be able to get to your bees. You may have multiple sites endangered at the same time. Even if you are a backyard hobbyist, you'll have to take time off from work to "protect" your bees. (Read the Bill of Rights, which protects citizens from such government seizures.) It is the applicators legal responsibility to comply with the label. I have heard that North Carolina has an officially sanctioned system of beekeeper notification, which circumvents the label directions. This is NOT legal, and should be challenged. Individual states can make pesticide laws stricter, but not more lenient than the Federal Insecticide, Fungicide, and Rodenticide Act of 1976. They cannot do an "end run" around the label directions. After making sure your applicator knows the ropes, you may be a bit safer. But I've had many an applicator tell me they will obey the rules, and never give it another thought. So get out and do some monitoring yourself! Nighttime applications are not going to bother the bees, the materials used are not residual enought to have much effect on bees by the next day. Also, some blossoms may be closed. It is during the day, that you must be alert. If you see an application in progress, and bees are working, get the spraying filmed. Then immediately show bees foraging on goldenrod, or other flowers within the area that the application is being done. Record time and date, which can be done on most cameras. Get witnesses, if you can. Then call your pesticide regulators and report a suspected violation. Remember, it is only a "suspected" violation, until you ascertain that the material has the bee-protection label directions. It's possible the applicator could be spraying a mosquito larvicide, or even a cotton defoliant, either of which would not hurt bees, nor have label directions for bee protection. Many of us never report anything until there is a bee-kill, and often not then because we've gotten cynical about the paper shuffling and lack of action. In this case, you are not reporting a bee-kill, you are reporting a label violation. It is irrelevant whether you have your own bees nearby; you have established that there ARE bees. And by protecting all bees, you'll protect your own. You need to get general documentation, every chance you get, of the patterns of foraging times. Right now, here in South Carolina, they nights have been cool, with heavy dews, and bees don't get out much in the morning. By noon they are really hitting it, and they will continue until the late afternoon chill starts. Goldenrod is just coming to the peak time; it should be at peak by the first of the week. In another two or three weeks we'll be due for a frost, then it will be mostly asters for forage. They are quite frost resistant. I am going to do all I can to help inform and press for compliance with label directions, but it is going to require more beekeepers to be involved, to keep some areas of this storm zone from becoming barren of ALL pollinators, as it did here in South Carolina. Bumblebee populations in some areas went down to near zero, and are just showing some recovery now, after seven years! Of course cotton has come back, and misuse on cotton is another threat to them. It took me several years to build back my hive count. I had a lot of equipment lost as well, because the following year, I had no bees to fill my equipment. Comb was eaten by wax worm, or dried out to the point where bees just wouldn't use it. We beekeepers are providing a public service, just by being present. And if we do contract pollination by design, we are intensifying that service. We help feed wildlife as well. I am proud of my work. I refuse to be dumped on any longer. Will you get involved? Pollinator@aol.com Dave Green, PO Box 1200, Hemingway, SC 29554 Practical Pollination Home Page Dave & Janice Green http://users.aol.com/pollinator/polpage1.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 14:52:46 GMT Reply-To: johntrn@ldd.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: John Taylor Organization: midwest.net Subject: Top Feeders In-Reply-To: <960911201155148@beenet.com> My hive is in its first year and about to enter its first Winter. There are two hive bodies on: bottom fully drawn out with LOTS of health little larvae and new bees emerging. Seems to be fairly adequate nectar and pollen stores in what is described as the typical storage pattern around the brood area. The second hive body has three and a half frames unworked; remainder is about 1/3 capped, 1/3 with stores uncapped and 1/3 being drawn out. No larvae in #2. I've just removed the entrance feeder that came with my hive and installed a top feeder. I saw top feeders referenced briefly in a message in August . . . 1. Should it stay on year round or be removed sometime late this fall? 2. It has an entrance hole - should it be plugged anytime during the year, particularly if it stays on year round? 3. The girls are flat out sucking down the sugar water when I fill the top feeder - do I need to supplement feed pollen/soy powder or will they gather what they need? Anything I may have not asked about? Thanks in advance for all the great help available on bee list. -- John Taylor -- Wild Rose Creek Apiary Southeast Missouri When in danger, or in doubt, run in circles, scream and shout! ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 14:52:53 GMT Reply-To: johntrn@ldd.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: John Taylor Organization: midwest.net Subject: Slightly off topic - Yellow Jackets Naive beekeeper that I am, when I found what looked to be wild bees nesting behind a retaining wall by the driveway, I left them alone. They had slightly smaller diameter bodies, a little longer/more slender than my bees and black and yellow stripes. Well, I've now figured out that these were yellow jackets. After getting stung once myself, have to mow right in front of their flight path/entrance and am concerned about my children getting stung by these more aggresive insects, I decided to spray and get rid of them. I've seen at least five or six large, queen-like, flying insects come staggering out of this nest since since I started spraying. I may have missed more as at least two of those flew away. These insects are easily three to five times the size of the yellow jacktes. Does anyone know how may queens are in a yellow jacket nest? Are these large insects something else like drones? I may be bent on killing them but I am still curious about them. -- John Taylor -- Wild Rose Creek Apiary Southeast Missouri When in danger, or in doubt, run in circles, scream and shout! ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 11:20:24 -0500 Reply-To: bbirkey@interaccess.com Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Barry Birkey Organization: Birkey.Com Subject: Re: Beekeepers and Hurricane Fran - Victims Again? Dave Green, Eastern Pollinator Newsletter wrote: > We beekeepers are providing a public service, just by being present. And > if we do contract pollination by design, we are intensifying that service. > We help feed wildlife as well. I am proud of my work. I refuse to be > dumped on any longer. > > Will you get involved? > > Pollinator@aol.com Dave Green, PO Box 1200, Hemingway, SC > 29554 > > Practical Pollination Home Page Dave & Janice Green > http://users.aol.com/pollinator/polpage1.html Dave - I hope you don't encounter bee kills like you have in the past. While not being in an area that is effected by sprayes, is there anything we beekeepers can do to help your cause? How can we be involved? -Barry -- Barry Birkey West Chicago, Illinois USA bbirkey@interaccess.com http://www.birkey.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 12:42:44 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Cecile T. Kohrs" Subject: Re: Beekeepers and Hurricane Fran - Victims Again? In a message dated 96-09-26 11:13:33 EDT, you write: << Will you get involved? Pollinator@aol.com Dave Green, PO Box 1200, Hemingway, SC 29554 >> Dave's comments were well reasoned and remarkably sound. Have you called local newspapers? If you want help restructuring Dave's comments to improve chances that a paper will use it for a story, please let me know. Was a newspaper reporter for six years, and would be happy to donate some time to the BEE cause, if Dave will allow me to rearrange (not re-write) what he wrote. Then whoever is in a similarly threatened area can send this to the newspapers. I can't guaranteed articles, but I can help increase the chance they'll use it, and if they use it, your chances of saving your hives will increase. Let me know! Cecile WyeknottC@AOL.COM ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 10:15:54 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Justin Schmidt Subject: Bee sting hype In-Reply-To: People, including beekeepers love to worry about diminishingly improbably events. Take for example the ibuprofen flurry lately. Simple statistics can be enlightening. About 1-2 % of the general public is hypersensitive (=allergic) and, say, there are 10 million beekeepers worldwide who get stung and who could or would go to a doctor after an adverse reaction. And further assume that 1 out of 10 weird (ie. unpredicted) reactions seen by doctors get into print as anecdotal reports. That would mean that our ibuprofen reactions occur only 1 in 15,000 (10,000,000/.015 = 150,000 'allergic' beekeepers/.1 [only 1 of 10 cases gets reported] = 15,000 'allergic ' beekeepers per ibuprofen incident). Seems to me that is a pretty small risk. Moreover, only 17-20 people die per year in the U.S. of bee stings out of a pool of 5-10 million 'allergic' people (many of whom believe "the next sting will kill me"), so even if you have an adverse reaction, the risk of death is below meaningful measurement. Fascinating, isn't it? I personally feel the these new drugs can do wonders for pain and suffering (and are a hell of a lot safer than steroids) and would hardly let such anecdotal reports bother me. If a mechanism for the supposedly correlated effects between ibuprofen and systemic reaction is demonstrated, I might become a believer. Otherwise, I am a great believer in the power of rare random effects emerging from a huge population individuals being stung and taking any given drug. If you want a detailed analysis of the medical, statistical, and psychological aspects of bee stings and allergy see the last chapter "Allergy to Venomous Insects" in The Hive and the Honey Bee published by Dadant. Many beekeepers already have this book, and if not, where else can one buy 1324 pages of great information for only $36. Justin Schmidt ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 14:53:42 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Dave Green, Eastern Pollinator Newsletter" Subject: Re: Bee sting hype In a message dated 96-09-26 13:21:23 EDT, jschmidt@CCIT.ARIZONA.EDU (Justin Schmidt) writes: << People, including beekeepers love to worry about diminishingly improbably events. Take for example the ibuprofen flurry lately. >> All I can say, Justin, is that it happened to me. I have been stung as much as several hundred times in a day, will no reaction other than a headache, some joint soreness, and great weariness - kind of like a mild case of the flu. I was taking one of the "profen" drugs once (after dental surgery), and got stung one time. I was scared simple by the reaction, which included massive swelling, red splotches (hives?) and intense itching, difficulty breathing, pain in the chest, fever, hyperactive mind and inability to sleep. The reaction lasted two days. I was dumb enough not to get medical attention at that time (I would today). The following week, after ending the medication, I was stung again with no effect. That's when I realized the likelihood of the involvement of the pain killer drug. I take it seriously. I wonder how many of the reactions that require emergency room treatment are a consequence, without discovery of the real cause. People also can be scared to death that they are allergic, when there is no real problem other than the pain killer. Believe me, when I went back to work with the bees, the following week, I was scared! That is my livelihood. There was no problem when I got stung. Pollinator@aol.com Dave Green, PO Box 1200, Hemingway, SC 29554 (Dave & Jan's Pollination Service, Pot o'Gold Honey Co.) Practical Pollination Home Page Dave & Janice Green http://users.aol.com/pollinator/polpage1.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 15:35:18 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Dave Green, Eastern Pollinator Newsletter" Subject: Re: Beekeepers and Hurricane Fran - Victims Again? In a message dated 96-09-26 12:45:22 EDT, Wyeknottc@AOL.COM (Cecile T. Kohrs) writes: << Dave's comments were well reasoned and remarkably sound. Have you called local newspapers? If you want help restructuring Dave's comments to improve chances that a paper will use it for a story, please let me know. Was a newspaper reporter for six years, and would be happy to donate some time to the BEE cause, if Dave will allow me to rearrange (not re-write) what he wrote. Then whoever is in a similarly threatened area can send this to the newspapers. I can't guaranteed articles, but I can help increase the chance they'll use it, and if they use it, your chances of saving your hives will increase. >> Thanks Cecile for your support and for your idea of news stories. These could help a lot. Anyone who wants additional materials may also want to see the letter about Beekeepers' Neighborhood Watches, I've sent to applicators and advisors. Let me know by e-mail, if you want a copy. (At the risk of sounding stupid: Don't hit the reply button!) PS: We are busy right now trying to deal with a major pesticide hit on our pollination bees. 125 hives involved.....hit by one of our own clients...... dead bees all over the ground.....a clear cut label violation..... a real messy situation.....more details later. Pollinator@aol.com Dave Green, PO Box 1200, Hemingway, SC 29554 (Dave & Jan's Pollination Service, Pot o'Gold Honey Co.) Practical Pollination Home Page Dave & Janice Green http://users.aol.com/pollinator/polpage1.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 15:36:14 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Faith Andrews Bedford Subject: Re: Bee sting hype Justin - When you give your statics on people dying of "bee stings" are you (or the people taking the statistics) sure they were bee stings and not wasps, yellow jackets, etc. Whenever I speak to school groups, the children invariably want to tell me horror stories about "bee" stings. When I quiz them further, I often find that the insects that stung them came out of a large, grey papery ball in a tree or from a hole in the ground! I am constantly defending the honey bee. Let's encourage those with stinging stories to clarify and say wasp or yellow jacket or hornet. For, usually, that is the insect that did the dastardly deed. Faith Andrews Bedford Ivy, VA and Tampa, Fla. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 11:50:03 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Adrian Wenner Subject: Re: Bee sting hype Justin Schmidt wrote: >People, including beekeepers love to worry about diminishingly improbably >events. Take for example the ibuprofen flurry lately. Simple statistics >can be enlightening. About 1-2 % of the general public is >hypersensitive (=allergic) and, say, there are 10 million beekeepers >worldwide who get stung and who could or would go to a doctor after an >adverse reaction. And further assume that 1 out of 10 weird (ie. >unpredicted) reactions seen by doctors get into print as anecdotal >reports. That would mean that our ibuprofen reactions occur only 1 in >15,000 (10,000,000/.015 = 150,000 'allergic' beekeepers/.1 [only 1 of 10 >cases gets reported] = 15,000 'allergic ' beekeepers per ibuprofen >incident). Seems to me that is a pretty small risk. Moreover, only >17-20 people die per year in the U.S. of bee stings out of a pool of 5-10 >million 'allergic' people (many of whom believe "the next sting will kill >me"), so even if you have an adverse reaction, the risk of death is below >meaningful measurement. Fascinating, isn't it? Etc. The same sort of fear persists with respect to rattlesnake bites. My advice to those worried about bee stings or snake bites? If you are really concerned about not taking risks, just stay off the freeway! Adrian Adrian M. Wenner (805) 893-2838 (UCSB office) Ecol., Evol., & Marine Biology (805) 893-8062 (UCSB FAX) Univ. of Calif., Santa Barbara (805) 963-8508 (home office & FAX) Santa Barbara, CA 93106 ************************************************************************* * "The difference between real and unreal things is that unreal things * * usually last much longer." Pot-Shots #6728 * * Copyright, Ashleigh Brilliant --- used with permission * ************************************************************************* ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 11:33:05 -0800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jerry Fries Subject: Re: Bee sting hype >In a message dated 96-09-26 13:21:23 EDT, jschmidt@CCIT.ARIZONA.EDU (Justin >Schmidt) writes: > ><< People, including beekeepers love to worry about diminishingly improbably > events. Take for example the ibuprofen flurry lately. >> > > All I can say, Justin, is that it happened to me. > > I have been stung as much as several hundred times in a day, will no >reaction other than a headache, some joint soreness, and great weariness - >kind of like a mild case of the flu. > > I was taking one of the "profen" drugs once (after dental surgery), and >got stung one time. I was scared simple by the reaction, which included >massive swelling, red splotches (hives?) and intense itching, difficulty >breathing, pain in the chest, fever, hyperactive mind and inability to sleep. > > The reaction lasted two days. I was dumb enough not to get medical >attention at that time (I would today). The following week, after ending the >medication, I was stung again with no effect. That's when I realized the >likelihood of the involvement of the pain killer drug. > > I take it seriously. I wonder how many of the reactions that require >emergency room treatment are a consequence, without discovery of the real >cause. People also can be scared to death that they are allergic, when there >is no real problem other than the pain killer. > > Believe me, when I went back to work with the bees, the following week, I >was scared! That is my livelihood. There was no problem when I got stung. > >Pollinator@aol.com Dave Green, PO Box 1200, Hemingway, SC >29554 (Dave & Jan's Pollination Service, Pot o'Gold Honey Co.) > >Practical Pollination Home Page Dave & Janice Green >http://users.aol.com/pollinator/polpage1.html I too have been reading the hype about taking antiinflamatory drugs and Im alarmed. I have been a fireman for twenty years and seen several cases of anaphalactic shock from bee stings. This is serious. The stings cause histimines and allergic reactions.( I know from experiece) If a person went to the hospital as I did It is possible they would administer Benadryl which is an antihistimine as they did for me.This is not medical advice. It is intended to point out that if you do not know what you are doing get professional advice. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 15:50:50 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Dave Green, Eastern Pollinator Newsletter" Subject: Re: Top Feeders Comments: To: johntrn@ldd.net In a message dated 96-09-26 12:35:07 EDT, johntrn@ldd.net (John Taylor) writes: << 3. The girls are flat out sucking down the sugar water when I fill the top feeder - do I need to supplement feed pollen/soy powder or will they gather what they need? >> When they're hoggin' the feed, that's a good sign of a healthy hive. I'd leave the feeder on until the second body is filled. If you have goldenrod and asters blooming, your bees should gather plenty of high quality pollen. They should be shutting down brood rearing soon, so they won't need much until late winter/spring, then you might want to evaluate pollen stores. We can pretty much feed year-around here, but I suspect your winters are a little colder, and bees don't process well in cold weather. Even if they take feed, they have trouble evaporating water. So I doubt you could feed, at least in December and January. <> Keep the mice out. And make sure they have some kind of top ventilation to get rid of moisture. Break the cold winds from the north and west, and try to have sunshine hit the hives on nice days. Good luck. Pollinator@aol.com Dave Green, PO Box 1200, Hemingway, SC 29554 (Dave & Jan's Pollination Service, Pot o'Gold Honey Co.) Practical Pollination Home Page Dave & Janice Green http://users.aol.com/pollinator/polpage1.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 14:58:59 CST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Alcides Aguirre Hernandez Subject: Re: mexico >Hi all, >I would like to contact mexican beekeeper. I plan to visit Mexico in >Dec./Jan. and I m also interested in meeting collegues in that >country. > >Any idea? Any mex. beekeeper in BEE-L? > >I live in Guadalajara Jal. Mexico ..I help you ? > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 15:15:53 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Joel Govostes Subject: Yellow jackets Yellow jackets are wasps, belonging to the same order as honey bees, ants, horntails, and hornets. They can develop pretty large colonies, especially certain species. They are cavity-nesters and will often nest in a burrow they find in the ground, or in man-made structures. Again this varies with different species. Some tend to build aerial nests under eaves or in tree branches. They can often find space, too, behind or inside old railroad-ties used for landscaping. This year a neighbor "discovered" them in his compost heap! You are very observant to notice the queen-like ones. Normally the colony is established in springtime by a single, fertilized female (queen). She lays a small patch of eggs in a tiny comb, which she constructs from wood pulp. Eventually the first batch of younsters hatches and they continue with the foraging and nest construction. Then the queen eventually settles down to egg-laying only, and the subsequent cycles of brood continue to populate and enlarge the colony. Some species will grow to a few thousand wasps; the population peaks in late summer. This is when most stings are encountered. In late summer/early autumn, the colony begins rearing "reproductives." These are fertile females (queens) and males. These are probably what you have seen around the nest. Each new queens will mate and find a place to overwinter, which she does individually. Sometimes you can find a young queen in winter, under some loose bark, hiding in a wall, or under a log. She endures the winter, all alone, and in spring searches for a new nest site and starts the process all over again. The non-reproductives (workers) and old queen perish soon after frost. So they won't be around much longer to bug you. However, towards the end of the season they get pretty aggressive, so be careful! ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 19:28:52 -0000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: gsbees Subject: Re: Bees knowing you JDave -- if you get stung enough , you may develop one of two things: Your body will respond with an allergic reaction and that being a tighten around the throat area and a difficulty in breathing means ANPHALLATIC SHOCK is on its way and you better be prepared with that good old needle for a quick nonalcoholic shot. will hurt like the devil, and then the pain will go away. "Phoebe's Mom" gsbees@telis.org ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 18:24:41 -0800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Tom & Carol Elliott Organization: Home Subject: Re: Immune Reactions to Stings Ted Fischer wrote: What Dave and Tom experienced fall into the second of these > categories, the large local reaction, and are very typical of this kind of >response. > Ted, What I was trying to get across was that specific conditions can cause reactions that are not typical of an individuals normal reaction. I got about the same number of stings in TWO ankles and one swelled up the other did not. I do not normally react to stings except for a small red dot. Within minutes it fades away. I have gotten hundreds of stings both before and after the events I described. It was a very specific and abnormal (for me) reaction. It only happens in one ankle, it has happened twice. Never ANY meaningful reaction anywhere else. In other words - don't jump to conclusions. Check it out. -- "Test everything. Hold on to the good." (1 Thessalonians 5:21) Tom Elliott Eagle River, Alaska beeman@alaska.net ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 27 Sep 1996 16:00:48 +0800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Nik Mohamed Abdulmajid Subject: Re: Need an e-mail address In-Reply-To: <199609261315.JAA27448@segwun.muskoka.net> On Thu, 26 Sep 1996, David Eyre wrote: > > Send a message to the listserv address you used to sign on to bee-L > > with > > > > REVIEW BEE-L > > > > as the only message. > > > > You'll get a list of all subscribers, other than those who have > > requested that their names not be listed. > > Sorry, this info is incorret. I recently asked for review Bee-L and was told > by Eric (Listserv) that I was not authorised. It seems that the command was > rescinded as the junk mail people were abusing it. I should object to your information David. It was only yesterday that I've received the whole complete list using the same command. You should try again David. Dont give up. Nik Mohamed ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 27 Sep 1996 09:00:36 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: David Eyre Subject: Re: Help 2 I posted to the list a request to help someone in Mexico looking for info ref. raising Bumble Bees. Validimir tells me I forgot their e-mail address, please, would you help >>> SINCERELY >>> RAFAEL A. CANALE PABLOS >>>Agrobiologic Solutions (AGROBIOSOL CO.) >>> >>>ADRESS: AVE. BATALLA DE CHURUBUSCO #1646 >>> COL. CHAPULTEPEC Z.C. 80040 >>> CULIACAN, SINALOA, MEXICO. >>>PHONE/FAX: (67) 16-65-21 Rafael Armando Canale Pablos Thank You. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 27 Sep 1996 10:32:24 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Aaron Morris Subject: REVIEW BEE-L Hi Folks, The REVIEW BEE-L command is a LISTSERV command and operates according to how the individual list is configured to LISTSERV. REVIEW can be set to be open to the public at large, or it can be restricted to list subscribers, or it can be further restricted to list owners. In the past on BEE-L, the REVIEW command was open to the general public. This was deemed too liberal and was to be restricted to list subscribers. Inadvertently it got restricted to list owners, hence since last July the REVIEW command would return the "Unauthorized" message to all reviewers except for the list owners. BEE-L is now configured to LISTSERV so REVIEW requests will be serviced for BEE-L subscribers, but not the general public. If subscribers don't want to be included in the list of subscribers, they must make their subscription concealed by sending the SET CONCEAL command to LISTSERV@cnsibm.albany.edu . ALL these commands should be sent to LISTSERV, not BEE-L! Users who are not well versed in LISTSERV usage are encouraged to send mail to: LISTSERV@cnsibm.albany.edu with a single line in the body of the mail which reads: INFO REFCARD LISTSERV will return to the requestor a file called LISTSERV REFCARD which is a short (less than 300 lines) online tutorial that informs users of commonly used commands (such as SUBSCRIBE, SIGNOFF, REVIEW, SET CONCEAL and even SEARCH (good luck!)). Aaron Morris - thinking there's more to LISTSERV than functional illiteracy! Yeah, I know, we can't know everything about everything. Rather than flame me, send mail to LISTSERV@cnsibm.albany.edu with one line that reads: INFO REFCARD ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 27 Sep 1996 11:13:00 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Mike Beluch Subject: Reviving Discontinued Beekeeping Merit Badge... Hello all, Please forgive my laziness in not searching the Archives, but my skills in that area are lacking, and since it seeems this past season is a blur, well... I have a nephew who would very much like to get the beekeeping merit badge. I was told by my local Boyscout council that as long as can physically get a copy of the book and a badge, that this is OK. I'm not so sure about that, and I'm continuing in my investigation. Anyway, I remember a number of posts concerning this issue, and I believe reps. for the Boyscouts were quoted, etc. I sure would like those contacts. If anyone can help........ In the meanwhile, I'm also in the process of talking to local scout leaders and beekeepers in an effort to make this a registered badge again. I myself was a scout 15 years back and I never even knew about what I was missing. What I'm trying to do is collect letters of intent from a number of commercial and hobbyist beekeepers that pledge assistance to local scout troops if interested. This assistance would be of course, things like apiary tours, maybe supplying an apiary for the scouts to work, use of an extractor, etc. The requirements for the badge are not that tough: the scouts must be able to identify the different bees in a hive and discuss their respective roles. They must hive a package or make a split, and must be able to manipulate frames. They must build a few frames, and lastly, they must extract salable honey. If you think about it, they really don't have to do all that much, and it certainly would help the hobby/industry. I would ask that other beekeepers might keep an open mind about this and might even help to initiate a similar program in their area. If anyone is interested in my progress, or would like to see copies of letters of intent (as soon as I get them back) I'd bee happy to help. Just email me at the above address. Thanks to all Mike ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 27 Sep 1996 11:47:45 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Aaron Morris Subject: Statistical significance of ibuprofen/bee sting reactions In regards to: > From: Justin Schmidt > Subject: Bee sting hype > People, including beekeepers love to worry about diminishingly > improbably events. Take for example the ibuprofen flurry lately. > Simple statistics can be enlightening... Yes, but one of the first things one learns and the last thing one should forget in a first level statistics class is that there are lies, damned lies, maps and statistics! You can (and did) work the figures such that the occurrences of a correlation between "Any-profen" and anaphylactic shock or death are small, even negligible. However, small or negligible is of little consequence to the .1% of the beekeeping population who might possibly end up dead! > Seems to me that is a pretty small risk. Moreover, only > 17-20 people die per year in the U.S. of bee stings out of a pool of > 5-10 million 'allergic' people (many of whom believe "the next sting > will kill me"), so even if you have an adverse reaction, the risk of > death is below meaningful measurement. Unless you happen to be the poor dead slob, in which case an otherwise insignificant statistic becomes an monumental event! This whole discussion started because someone (was it Dave Cawley?) stated that he had a not common reaction to a bee sting, for which he followed his usual routine - get out of the beeyard and take a couple ibuprofens to relieve the pain. Well, there exists the small insignificant statistical possibility that the ibuprofens are exacerbating the condition, not helping it!. It may be the case that Dave had a weird reaction. I had a single sting incident this summer that ended up with me in the emergency room, followed by the benedryl shot, epipen subscription and advice to find a new hobby. Subsequent stings came with my normal reaction - curse the bee, scrape the stinger and forget about it. Was it ibuprofen? No, I avoid "Any-profen" based on the article I posted. Was is statistically insignificant? Based on the number of stings I've received vs the numbers of severe reactions of that magnitude I've had, it WAS statistically insignificant. But based on the severity of the reaction, that insignificant statistic became VERY SIGNIFICANT in Aaron Morris' universal set of possible sting reactions. > Fascinating, isn't it? I personally feel that these new drugs can do > wonders for pain and suffering (and are a hell of a lot safer than > steroids) and would hardly let such anecdotal reports bother me. If > a mechanism for the supposedly correlated effects between ibuprofen > and systemic reaction is demonstrated, I might become a believer. > Otherwise, I am a great believer in the power of rare random > effects emerging from a huge population of individuals being stung > and taking any given drug. No argument about the potential benefits of new drugs, but given the way you embrace statistical analysis, I doubt the numbers exist to sway you against "any-profens", and in the realm of statistics you should not be swayed - you are in the set of individuals who will not display any correlation between anyprofens and adverse bee sting reactions. So profen on Justin! However, don't discount the possibility that the minute subset of correlation cases exists! I have not seen other than anecdotal testimony that the correlation exists and I would welcome studies which could prove or disprove the claim. But even if there were studies to prove of disprove, they would only be studies such that the set of those studied fell within 2.9 standard deviations of the test hypothesis and we can be reasonably sure that the test hypothesis is true or false. In the meantime, we have the members falling in the .1 standard deviation who have been "proven" wrong. Small consequence to the statistically insignificant dead ibuprofen takin' beekeeper from Pennsylvania or South Carolina. Embrace statistics, it's a wonderful science! But UNDERSTAND statistics! I am not saying ALL beekeepers should avoid anyprofens, but every beekeeper should be aware that some beekeepers has displayed adverse reactions to a combination of anyprofen and bee stings. Is Dave one? Beats the hell out of me, but I'm happy to know that he is at least aware that other beekeepers have reported this problem and he might want to examine that possibility. > ... in _The_Hive_and_the_Honey_Bee_ published by > Dadant. Many beekeepers already have this book, and if not, where > else can one buy 1324 pages of great information for only $36. > > Justin Schmidt To which I say, "Right On!" Aaron Morris - thinking there's significance in insignificance! ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 27 Sep 1996 15:24:49 GMT Reply-To: johntrn@ldd.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: John Taylor Organization: midwest.net Subject: Chiggers (was Ticks) Slightly off-topic In-Reply-To: <199608310006.RAA15086@m1.sprynet.com> After posting treatment for ticks and offering to do the same for chiggers I received several requests for the information on chiggers. As we are all outdoors and prone to these pests (in addition to many others) I thought it might be worth sharing with the LIST. The information that follows is excerpted from: CHIGGERS!, Nina Bicknese, THE MISSOURI CONSERVATIONIST, August, 1990, Volume 51, Number 8, pages 2 - 5. Chigger facts: -Chiggers are not a 'bug'. They are the juvenile (or larval) form of a mite "Trombi-culidae" and belong to the arachnid family. -Chiggers are tiny, almost invisible to the unaided eye, less than 1/150 of an inch in diameter. -Chiggers are small enough to penetrate the meshes of your clothing, but they usually stay on the surface of your clothes until they come to an easy opening. -Chiggers are born red; they do not become red from feeding on blood. An engorged, well fed chigger changes to a yellow color. -Chiggers do not burrow under the skin and die within the tissues. There are pests in southern states such as the jigger flea or chigoe which to attack by burrowing under the skin. -Chiggers DO bite, by inserting mouth parts much like ticks. Usually at skin pores or hair follicles. -Women and children get more chigger bites than men. Men, women and children all collect the same number of chiggers on a walk; women and children thinner skin and are more easily bit. -Chiggers are most active when the ground temperature is between 77 and 86 degrees. They become inactive when substrate temperatures fall below 60 degrees and are killed below 42 degrees. "The reason the bite itches so intensely and for such a long time is because the chigger injects saliva into its vicitm after attaching to the skin. this saliva contains a powerful digestive enzyme that literally dissolves the skin cells it contacts. It is this liquified tissue, never blood, that the chigger ingests and uses for food. A chigger usually goes unnoticed for one to three hours after it starts feeding. During this period the chigger quietly injects its digestive saliva. After a few hours your skin reacts by hardening the cells on all sides of the saliva path, eveantually forming a hard tubelike structure called a stylostome. The stylostome walls off the corrosive saliva, but it also functions liake a feeding tube for the hungry chigger. The chigger sits with its mouthparts attached to the stylostome, and like a person drinking a milkshake through a straw, it sucks up you liquified tissue. Left undisturbed, the chigger continues alternately injecting saliva into the bite and sucking up liquid tissue. It is the stylosome that irritates and inflames the surrounding tissue and causes the characteristic red welt and intense itch." Prevention/Treatment: -Wear tightly woven socks, long pants, long sleeve shirts and high shoes or boots. When you get home, change your clothes as soon as possible. -Regular mosquito repellants will repel chiggers. Apply them around openings in your clothes, such as cuffs, waistbands, shirt fronts and boot tops. Re-apply every two to three hours. Sulphur is the most effective chigger repellant. Powdered sulphur, called sublimed sulphur or flowers of sulphur can be dusted in the same areas the mosquito repellant is applied. -Take a warm, soapy bath with plenty of scrubbing as soon as possible after exposure. -Warm soapy water is all that is necessary to remove and kill chiggers. There is no need to apply kerosene, turpentine, ammonia, alcohol, gasoline, salt or dry cleaning fluid. -Attached chiggers are removed by even the lightest rubbing. If you are away from civilization, frequent rubbing with a towel or cloth can remove attached chiggers before they do much damage. -No lotions are completely effective in releiving the itching. The only ultimate cure is time. You can do nothing to dislodge the feeding tube, the true cause of your itch. -Local anesthetics, such as, benzocaine, camphor-phenol and ammonioum hydroxide may provide you with several hours of relief. -Nail polish dabbed on the welt will not smother the chigger as it has not burrowed into your skin and probably fell off hours of scratching ago. -Chronic scratching will only further irritate the stylostome and probably cause secondary infection. Sorry for the length. This was basically a synopsis of the article which was very inteesting reading. Good luck and happy beekeeping. -- John Taylor -- Wild Rose Creek Apiary Southeast Missouri When in danger, or in doubt, run in circles, scream and shout! ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 27 Sep 1996 23:28:01 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Tom Allen Subject: Re: Bees knowing you,or your watch In the past three years I have been stung many times,the most common is bees crawling down between my jacket sleeve and by glove gaunlet.The crawl right up to my LCD watach and hit me right under the band next tothe watch face.I wonder if the bees are annoyed by a sound frequency that we do not hear. Comments anyone. Yes I know I have to do something about the jacket matching the gauntlet,Velcro in a complete loop is my approach for 1997 season ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 28 Sep 1996 11:36:59 +0800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Nik Mohamed Abdulmajid Subject: Re: Immune Reactions to Stings In-Reply-To: On Thu, 26 Sep 1996, Ted Fischer wrote: > REGARDING Immune Reactions to Stings Hi Ted and all, I still remember being introduced to a bee venom product in the form of a cream in a local apiculture fair. It is indicated for arthritis and muscular problem. I was told that it is useful for those who intend to take bee venom therapy as a preliminary test for allergies and sensitivity with respect to bee stings. It is available in the market with the trade name "FORAPIN", a product of Merck. I need your comment Ted, wheather it is safe to be used as preliminary indicator to the allergies and other related complications. Thanks. Nik Mohamed -- End --