Received: from [169.226.1.21] by relay.internode.net (SMTPD32-3.02) id AE3411C100E4; Tue, 12 Nov 1996 23:44:04 -0700 Received: from CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU by CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU (IBM VM SMTP V2R2) with BSMTP id 9090; Wed, 13 Nov 96 01:47:49 EST Received: from CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU (NJE origin LISTSERV@ALBNYVM1) by CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU (LMail V1.2c/1.8c) with BSMTP id 9700; Wed, 13 Nov 1996 01:47:45 -0500 Date: Wed, 13 Nov 1996 01:47:39 -0500 From: "L-Soft list server at ALBNYVM1 (1.8b)" Subject: File: "BEE-L LOG9610D" To: "W. Allen Dick" X-UIDL: 475 Status: U ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Oct 1996 17:26:13 +1100 Reply-To: nickw@wave.co.nz Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Nick Wallingford Organization: Nat Beekeepers Assn of NZ Subject: Re: Marking Queen Bees > Does anyone out there have knowledge of the rules and regulations > regarding color patterns for the yearly marking of queens. Is this just a > national or international code. would appreciate any info that you folks > might like to share. The colour of the cover of Bee World always used to match the year's colour - I presume that is still the case. But the way I use is: 1 or 6 When White 2 or 7 You Yellow 3 or 8 Requeen Red 4 or 9 Get the Green 5 or 0 Best Blue (\ Nick Wallingford {|||8- home nickw@wave.co.nz (/ work nw1@boppoly.ac.nz NZ Beekeeping http://www.wave.co.nz/pages/nickw/nzbkpg.htm ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Oct 1996 00:59:08 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Tom Allen Subject: Re: Hive placement This may be a late reply about placinf hives in sun or shade. Where to feral bees and wild bees place their nests. Usually in shaded or wooded areas I believe. Could this be a lead. However my best performing hive gets the most sun of my measly three hives. I m trying a new location next here for one hive in an area partially enclosed in a high stone wall . It is partially shades so it does not get very hot, and in the winter is better protected from the wind and snow. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Oct 1996 00:59:11 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Tom Allen Subject: Re: Feeders and SUgar syrup I have tried ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Oct 1996 00:59:12 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Tom Allen Subject: Re: Feeders and SUgar syrup I have tried division feeders, glass boardman feeders and baggies. The gallon glass jars on a stand is the best for me. WIth the baggies some of the bees get inside and drown a,same for the division board. Any large an\mount of spilled honey also leads to drowning. Fortunately I have a good source of glass or plastic restaurant gallon containers. They seem to work best for me. The Boardman feeders although alright most of the time seemed to become a target for racoons. The bottles ended up quite a way from the hive and were hard to find. One or two broke. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Oct 1996 00:58:44 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ian Watson Subject: Re: Maxant small extractor notes In-Reply-To: This is a little late but here goes.. I disagree about using the extractor radially. I have extracted shallows radially..and for me at least it was quite easy...and not a long process...maybe 3-4 minutes of spinning. But this may be due to the fact that i use Plasticell foundation only..thus I can spinn relatively fast and not worry about the comb breaking. Otherwise..its a great little machine..:) Ian Watson iwatson@freenet.npiec.on.ca ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Oct 1996 06:16:30 +1300 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Peter Bray Subject: Re: Hive placement At 12:59 AM 10/21/96 -0400, you wrote: >This may be a late reply about placinf hives in sun or shade. Where to feral >bees >and wild bees place their nests. Usually in shaded or wooded areas I believe. >Could this be a lead. Probably more to do with the location availabe of suitable nesting sites. I.e. holes in trunks of trees tend to be shaded by...... Cheers. Peter Bray, Airborne Honey Ltd., PO Box 28, Leeston, New Zealand Fax 64-3-324-3236, Phone 64-3-324-3569 p.bray@netaccess.co.nz ---------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 20 Oct 1996 23:09:00 -0600 Reply-To: allend@internode.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Allen Dick Organization: The Beekeepers Subject: A Cool Tool Are you having trouble understanding subscribing, unsubscribing, and setting the various bee list subscription options? Try using http://www.cuug.ab.ca:8001/~dicka/bee-l.html You'll like it! Regards Allen W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper VE6CFK RR#1, Swalwell, Alberta Canada T0M 1Y0 Internet:dicka@cuug.ab.ca & allend@internode.net Honey. Bees, & Art ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 20 Oct 1996 22:42:47 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Paul Cronshaw, D.C." Subject: Number of US beekeepers In-Reply-To: <199610210406.VAA01271@beach.silcom.com> Fellow beekeepers: A local newspaper had a nice article on honey. Under the title picture there was this statement: "There are some 211,600 beekeepers in the US. THanks to them and the honeybees, there are more than 300 types of honey available" Are these figures accurate? How does one go about doing a census on beekeepers? And the different types of honey? Paul Cronshaw, D.C. Hobby Beekeeper Santa Barbara, CA USA ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 20 Oct 1996 22:09:45 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Paul Cronshaw, D.C." Subject: Plastic Foundation In-Reply-To: <199610200402.VAA02902@beach.silcom.com> I had pretty good success with plastic foundation this year. Apparently there are 3 versions out: 1. Permadent 2. Pierco 3. Duragilt I have decided to use Duragilt with support pins in the brood chamber. The nice layer of wax entices the bees to draw it out without hesitation. However, I find that Duragilt is too weak for extracting supers and will bend if the extractor goes too fast (I use my children and they like the high RPM's :) I ordered some Pierco platic foundation for the first time last week. I noticed that the Pierco is thicker than Permadent so makes snapping in a grooved bootom bar frame a little harder. I do notice a little more wax on these foundations. I haven't noticed if the bees draw this foundation out any faster than Permadent. Anyone else have any observations or comments as to the effectiveness/downsides of these 3 plastic foundations? ************** Some instructions came with the Pierco foundations, so I am sharing this with the BEE-list as educational material. BASIC METHODS FOR PIERCO PLASTIC FRAME FOUNDATION The basic requirement for new comb foundation are the same. No matter what type yu are using, at Pierco we want you to get the most out of you new frames, that is why we are enclosing this information guide. 1. COlonies should be strong and healthy, it is difficult to get bees to stretch any foundation if they are under any stress. 2. Colonies must be on some type of flow, be it a natural nectar flow or artificial (sugar syrup), they cannot produce wax without have some type of carbohydrates coming in. 3. Not including certain commercial management methods, foundation should be give to the bees in an interspersed method, i.e. in a 9 frame super, foundation should be in the number 3,5,7 postions. THe reason for this is that bees will be slow to draw foundation that is to the outside of the super, and when you have two frames of foundation beside one another the bees will sometimes fill the area with burr comb, beuase the of the size of the gap bewteen the sheets is too large. However, if you wish to put a full super of foundation on, then you should put 10 frames in the super to restrict this space, you will probably also have to move the frames from the outside in after the bees have started to draw the centre ones out. To a certain extent full supers of foundation can act as a barrier to upward expansion, and some colonies will be slow to enter them. 4. Brood nests can be used to draw foundation, but it must be remembered that unless the conditions are ideal, the brood rate will decrease when foundation is added, the bees need to draw foundation are young bees and these young bees are also needed to feed the young brood. Depending on your hive strength, amount of nectar coming into the hive and size of hive, determines the number of frames of foundation being introduced. A general rule of two frames per brood nest whould work well, using positions 3 and 7. It is best to only use the top brood box unless all brood boxes are quite packed with bees on a good flow. 5. In some areas at certain times a difference can be nted between waxed and unwaxed foundation acceptance. Generally the stronger the hive and the greater the nectar flow, the better the acceptance will be. If you are in an area of small flow, you may find the waxed will work better, while if you are in an area of fast intense flows the bees will draw either oout equally well. Depending on your area the waxed will require less management than the unwaxed. We hope that this information sheet is useful to you. If you have any qustions about drawing out Pierco foundation, oyu can give us or your local Apiculture inspector a call Thank you. ************ End Sheet***** Paul Cronshaw, D.C. Hobby Beekeeper Santa Barbara, CA USA ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Oct 1996 05:29:17 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ron Harriger Subject: bee keeper census Hi Paul, Here in the state of Pennsylvania all beekeepers must register the location, number of colonies and home address of keeper. There is a $10. fee for this and is to be done every other year. The money collected from these fees is to offset the expense of the bee inspection program. If you should be caught without registration you are warned the first time, after that, if you fail to obey they can fine you up to $1000. Of course there are those who do not register because they just don't know about the law (like me for example) I was not registered the first year because I just jumped into bee keeping without attending any classes, meetings or mentoring of any kind, and then there are those who ignore the law. I have one beekeeper friend who swears he will never register his single hive. Maybe there are others throughout the U.S. who can give you better insight into the accuracy to the number of bee keepers across our nation. Ron Harriger 100 Rhoades St. Cambridge Springs Pa. 16403 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Oct 1996 09:32:07 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ray Lackey Subject: queen marking Dean M. Breaux of wrote "The queen marking system is as follows: White or grey for years ending in 1 or 6 Yellow for years ending in 2 or 7 Red for years ending in 3 or 8 Green for years ending in 4 or 9 Blue for years ending in 5 or 0" I have picked up two phrases to remember the order (from BEE-L): What! White When You Yellow You Raise Red Requeen, Green Green Get the Bees! Blue Best! ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ + Raymond J. Lackey, EAS Master Beekeeper, Pres LIBC + + Twelve years exper with 25 colonies on Long Island, NY+ + INTERNET: lackeyr@hazeltine.com + + Mail: 1260 Walnut Avenue, Bohemia NY 11617-2176 + + Home Phone: 516-567-1936 FAX: 516-262-8053 + ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Oct 1996 11:36:17 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Wendy Ban Subject: Substance for queen marking In regard to marking queens: What substances (besides expensive queen marking paint sold as such) can one use? Testor's model enamel? White-Out? Other? Are certain paints toxic to the queen? Is water- solubility a problem? Any info would be appreciated. Thanks, Wendy Ban 8 hives, Columbus OH ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Oct 1996 13:25:54 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Malcolm (Tom) Sanford, Florida Extension Apiculturist" Subject: Re: Pollination Information Comments: To: Nigel Holloway Comments: cc: General questions , pollinator@aol.com, popal-l@LISTSERV.UOGUELPH.CA In-Reply-To: <19961021145039314.AAA140@8322d8f9> Would like to help you in this matter, but we are all very short on pollination research. Seems like there are a lot of new varieties, etc. like Granny Smith apples which I adore, but when it comes to pollination information, only generalities exist for apples. I am sending your messsage to David Green in South Carolina and putting it up on the bee-l lists for other comments. Tom Sanford On Mon, 21 Oct 1996, Nigel Holloway wrote: > To: Malcolm T. Sanford > > Hi Malcom, > > I am an amateur beekeeper operating in Cape Town, South Africa. I run about > 80 hives all stocked with our local bee, a.m. capensis. I am interested in your experiences with capensis; I understand this Trojan horse of a bee is making big trouble in much of South Afica. I have over the > last few years been doing quite a lot of apple and pear pollination. We are > guided locally by Dr Anderson who wrote a little book discussing the > technical apects of pollination. The one thing we do however lack here is > any significant level of local research into the benefits of pollination. > We have to rely on those farmers who have tried it, and perceived it to be a > benefit, to spread the word. > > I have just recently started looking for sites on the web which could > provide me with sound research results which discuss pollination, it's > benefits, pitfalls, etc, etc. I am thus writing to you in the hopes that > you will be able to point me in the general direction of web sites where I > might be able to obtain quality, up to date information. > > In return, I could try to send local info / experiences to you. > > Thanks > > Nigel Holloway > > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Oct 1996 14:44:13 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Malcolm (Tom) Sanford, Florida Extension Apiculturist" Subject: Message for October APIS Comments: To: General questions The October 1996 issue of APIS--Apicultural Information and Issues (ISSN 0889-3764), the monthly beekeeping newsletter from the University of Florida is being printed and has been sent to the Apis-L mailing list. This issue includes articles on the referendum passing to keep the National Honey Board, the situation surrounding use of essential oils in Varroa control, an integrated approach to Varroa control and natural products, and conserving the dark European honey bee of Europe. For Internet users this number can be directly accessed using the world wide web: http://www.ifas.ufl.edu/~entweb/apis/apis.htm This web site has recently been upgraded and has temporarily moved to http://www.ifas.ufl.edu/~mts/apishtm/apis.htm Both the above URLs will allow access to the site. or "newsletters" in the IFAS VAX gopher: gopher://gnv.ifas.ufl.edu/11gopher_root3%3a%5bdatabase%5d Those wishing to receive the newsletter electronically on a monthly basis as it is published can subscribe directly by sending a message to LISTSERV@NERVM.NERDC.UFL.EDU, and entering on the first line of the body of the text, NOT the subject line, the following: Subscribe Apis-L First Name Last Name. Here's what the screen looked like when I subscribed: ---------------------------------------------------------- To :listserv@nervm.nerdc.ufl.edu Cc : Attchmnt: Subject : -------Message Text-------- subscribe apis-L Tom Sanford ----------------------------- ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Tom Sanford Extension Apiculturist University of Florida Mailing Address: Bldg 970, Hull Rd., Gainesville, FL 32611-0620 Voice phone 352/392-1801, Ext. 143 FAX 352/392-0190 INTERNET: MTS@GNV.IFAS.UFL.EDU APIS on the World Wide Web-- http://www.ifas.ufl.edu/~entweb/apis/apis.htm +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Oct 1996 16:06:08 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Albert W. Needham" Subject: Re: Feeders and SUgar syrup Tom: It would help if you just snipped a specific piece of a previous message (or made a quick short and sweet reference in the opening body of your e-mail) so that we would know what you are responding to, like "I have tried" message is in response to what ? Not everyone saves their old messages and even if they do, it means they must go tracing backward to figure out what you are referring to. Hope that makes sense. Also, someone previously noted that it would help us all if we knew a person's geographic location, so we could figure out if their comments in respect to weather bore any relationship to our own geographical location. Some people I know where they are, some others, I have no idea if they are on this planet or somewhere else in the galaxy :-). Thanks. Al Needham Hobbyist Scituate, MA alwine@aol.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Oct 1996 17:16:30 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Faith Andrews Bedford Subject: Re: Making jelly with honey? Regarding making jams and jellies with honey.....just call your local extensin agency and ask to speak to the homemakers division. They have all sorts of recipes. Faith Andrews Bedford Beekeeper, Ivy, VA ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Oct 1996 17:16:32 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Faith Andrews Bedford Subject: Re: Herbs in Honey. Was: Making jelly with honey? Tony Morgan wrote that herbs keep very well in honey and taste very fresh. He's absolutely right. Another wonderful herb/honey combo is to warm honey slightly and pour into a jar with a pretty sprig or two of herbs (rosemary, thyme, lavender, tarragon all work wel). Let sit for a day or two, add a ribbon and give as a gift (or use yourself, of course). The herb-flavored honey is wonderful for the essence infuses the honey wonderfully well. An alternative to heating is to place the herbs in the honey and leave on a sunny windowsill for a week or two. Faith Andrews Bedford Beekeeper, Ivy VA ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Oct 1996 09:41:40 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Kerry Clark of AGF 784-2225 fax (604) 784 2299" Subject: Hello to B.C. beekeepers Comments: cc: John Gates of AGF Beekeepers in British Columbia are holding their annual meeting this coming Thursday through Saturday, in Castlegar, B.C. Part of the meeting will be a demonstration of beekeeping uses of the Internet. As part of the demonstration, this is a request to interested subscribers of BEE-L to send a greetings message to the conference, or to friends in the BCHPA who might be attending. STOP ... don't REPLY to BEE-L, send your message to the (temporary) conference address: bcbees@kootenay.awinc.com During the conference program, my fellow Apiculture Specialist John Gates will project the E-mail messages for all to see. (Owing to travel restrictions, I won't be there). Thanks, Kerry Clark, Apiculture Specialist B.C. Ministry of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food 1201 103 Ave Dawson Creek B.C. V1G 4J2 CANADA Tel (250) 784-2231 fax (250) 784-2299 INTERNET kclark@galaxy.gov.bc.ca ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Oct 1996 13:33:20 -0800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Tom & Carol Elliott Organization: Home Subject: Re: Substance for queen marking Wendy Ban wrote: > > In regard to marking queens: > What substances (besides expensive queen marking paint sold > as such) can one use? Testor's model enamel? White-Out? > Other? Are certain paints toxic to the queen? Is water- > solubility a problem? Any info would be appreciated. > I use Testors model enamel routinely. I have used "White-Out" of various colors, and fingernail polish. Never saw any negative results except that the bees can sometimes get the White-Out off the queen to some degree. Many I have known have used these. No problems that I have heard of. -- "Test everything. Hold on to the good." (1 Thessalonians 5:21) Tom Elliott Eagle River, Alaska beeman@alaska.net ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Oct 1996 18:42:02 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Dave from Scranton Subject: Mites and Yellowjackets In-Reply-To: <961021171631_548082926@emout05.mail.aol.com> While checking my hive last weekend, and taking 9 deep frames of honey from a colony I stated with in June (it helps to have a whole deep of honey to start with!), I noticed and was glad to see quite a pile of yellowjackets piled up at the end of the landing board. I was very glad I had reduced the entrance 3 weeks ago, I think that helped keep the yellowjackets out. Onto the mites...I did an ether roll on about 30 bees two weeks ago and came up with nothing on the sides of the jar. I'm not sure if I just didn't see them or I don't know what I'm looking for. I was looking for small, hairy, legged dirt particles, right? I put a grease patty on the week before, but didn't get low enough to see how they did with it. The bees were supposedly treated in April/May as they were building up from the long cold, wet spring and I got them in June. Should I not treat them since the mites may be low enough in population adn the queen has more or less stopped laying? ****************************************************************************** Dave D. Cawley, Maitre d' | ***ALERT shameless plug ALERT*** The Internet Cafe | Scranton, Pennsylvania | ASK ME FOR A COPY OF WEBPHONE!!! (717) 344-1969 | (or try www.scranton.com/webphone) ddc1@lydian.scranton.com | ****************************************************************************** URL => http://www.scranton.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Oct 1996 22:31:25 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "my name is Dean M. Breaux" Subject: Re: Substance for queen marking I have found that fingernail polish is the longest lasting paint to use on queens. In spite of its very strong odor I have not had a problem with balling or any other reasons not to use it. It is cheap, at the dollor stores and you can get just about any color you or the Misses would like. What ever you do don't, I repeat DO NOT use your wife's or you may find yourself in the honey house long after the honey is extracted. Dean M. Breaux Executive Vice President Hybri-Bees "Breeding Better Bees" ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Oct 1996 23:14:46 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Steven Albritton Subject: Melting Cappings How do you melt and seperate wax in a boiler? ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Oct 1996 00:26:08 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Bill Miller Subject: Re: Plastic Foundation Two things about plastic foundation: 1) I do not consider Duragilt to be true plastic foundation like Pierco and Permadent. If you scrape off the wax coating/combs from Duragilt, you are left with an unusable plastic sheet. With the other two, the cell outlines are part of the molding, so you can scrape off old combs and the foundation ir ready for reuse. Also the true plastic foundations are quite a bit stronger, and hence no "blowouts" during extracting. 2) When I tried Pierco's recommended method for drawing comb (interspaced drawn comb and foundation), the bees simply extended the drawn comb to enormous thicknesses, and did very little on the foundation. The result was a jigsaw puzzle to disassemble, and few usably drawn new frames. Accordingly, I now use all-foundation supers for drawing comb, that way the bees draw comb properly. BTW, Pierco is right on in recommending that foundation drawing only be attempted during a strong nectar flow. W. G. Miller Gaithersburg, MD ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Oct 1996 00:27:14 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Bill Miller Subject: Re: Substance for queen marking For marking queens, I use Testor's paint pens. Make sure they are working before you pick up the queen. W. G. Miller Gaithersburg, MD ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Oct 1996 14:41:58 +1100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Chris Allen Subject: Re: Melting Cappings At 11:14 PM 21/10/96 -0600, you wrote: >How do you melt and separate wax in a boiler? I prefer not to use a solar wax melter rather than a boiler. However if you must us a boil, try 1 put the cappings in a stocking 2 place this "sausage" in the boiler (wait it down with something so that it sinks to the bottom) 3 "boil" the wax will melt and float to the top the rubbish will remain trapped in the stocking (a small amount of rubbish might float but not much) 4 let it all cool down 5 when the wax is solid (floating on the top) just pick it up. Note: If the water boils in the normal way, the bubbles will agitate the molten wax and stir the very fine rubbish in with it. This will give dirty wax. Try to keep the temperature just above the melting point of the wax. This will not agitate the water and the wax should be cleaner. FGS Don't stir it. Regards Chris Allen ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Oct 1996 00:31:05 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Gerry Visel Subject: Cleaning Jars Hidere all, I bought some canning jars at an auction to sell honey in, and the lady had stored them with the lid rings left on, which left some rust stains on the glass in the lid thread area. I tried lemon juice, vinegar, and a lot of elbow grease, but it will not come off. Any ideas out there? I just got an order for 12 pints, and I gotta deliver! Thanx muchly! Gerry and the other Visels at Visel7@juno.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Oct 1996 02:18:13 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ron Harriger Subject: CENSUS Fellow Bee-l's I must confess that I made an error when I quoted you folks the fines pertaining to NOT complying to registering hives in Pa. I went home a checked out the law because something was not right. I knew I should not have tried to do so from memory! The first offense is $100. the second $300. and every offense after that is $1000. I guess I thought one should get a warning first. Sorry for the misinformation. (Is that politically correct?) Ron Harriger 100 Rhoades St. Cambridge Springs Pa. 16403 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Oct 1996 02:39:29 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Gerry Visel Subject: "Mildew" Smelling Honey I have some honey I took off in mid September that tastes fine, but has a distinct smell not at all unlike mildew. Is this goldenrod or do I need to replace some frames? I know honey will pick up odors, but it is only this batch, and it has been stored in clean plastic buckets since extracting last month. I'm wondering if I ought to just feed it back to the bees. Thanks! Gerry and the other Visels at Visel7@juno.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Oct 1996 02:39:29 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Gerry Visel Subject: Re: Melting Cappings On Mon, 21 Oct 1996 23:14:46 -0600 Steven Albritton writes: >How do you melt and seperate wax in a boiler? > Steve, You didn't say how mych you had to do, but here's what I do. Use a water jacket or double boiler so the heat does not go too high. This will darken the wax. I also add some hydrogen peroxide to the wax to help lighten it. If I don't have too much (more than one pot full,) I just heat it up until it is melted, and then let it cool right back down. The dark substance ("slumgum") will settle to the bottom of the wax, where it can be cut off I'm sure there are better ways, but this works for me, (5 hives worth.) Good luck! ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Oct 1996 10:06:44 +0100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Morten Brixtofte Petersen Subject: Geographic location Hi all! I quite agree with Al Nedham, and others, that information on geographic location is essential to judge suggestions for hive practiceses info on nectar plants etc. Al Nedham recently wrote about this, (below) but from which galaxy is he ? Scituate, MA ------------ I SUPPOSE this is Massachusetts in the US? AL Wrote:" Some people I know where they are, some others, I have no idea if they are on this planet or somewhere else in the galaxy :-). Thanks. Al Needham Hobbyist Scituate, MA alwine@aol.com" Regards from Denmark, Scandinavia, Europe (56 deg N) Morten Petersen mp@kvl.dk ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Oct 1996 19:58:20 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: paul s smith Subject: Re: Pollination Information Have you tried the Dept. of Agriculture, at the University of Pittsburg, PA psupe.psu.edu login: state code ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Oct 1996 10:51:44 GMT+0100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "MORGAN, ANTHONY" Subject: Re: Geographic location etc Morten Petersen mp@kvl.dk wrote:-- > I quite agree with Al Nedham, and others, that information on geographic > location is essential to judge suggestions for hive practiceses info on > nectar plants etc. Another essential piece of info to supply is which race of bee does your experience/practice etc apply to. My Carniolans are now ready for the winter having had their number of frames reduced and been fed with sugar syrup (12 kg sugar per hive). I dont expect to see them out again now until the end of March at the earliest. No snow yet, but it wont be long! cheers, Tony. ------------------------------------------------------------ Anthony N. Morgan (Tony) Fax: +47 73 89 62 86 "Stavshagen" E-mail: anthony@iet.hist.no Midtsandan Sor-Trondelag College 7563 MALVIK Elec. Eng. Department Norway 7005 TRONDHEIM, Norway ------------------------------------------------------------ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Oct 1996 06:36:33 -0300 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Stan Sandler Subject: Re: Melting Cappings >At 11:14 PM 21/10/96 -0600, you wrote: >>How do you melt and separate wax in a boiler? > >I prefer not to use a solar wax melter rather than a boiler. > >However if you must us a boil, try >1 put the cappings in a stocking >2 place this "sausage" in the boiler Hi Chris: The problem with this method is that the scorched honey is lost. I realize that if you are just doing a very small amount of cappings that may not be a problem, but I always figure that "waste not, want not". It is surprising how much scorched honey can be obtained from even well drained cappings (although I have never used a cappings spinner). I am able to sell scorched honey to a bakery for 2/3 the price of unheated bulk honey, since the honey is scorched anyway in the baking process. I use a commercial cappings melter and it is a dandy rig, but for a small quantity I would suggest simply melting the cappings at minimum heat in a water bath, but do not dilute with water. Then pour through a piece of window screen (to remove the slum gum) into a bucket. When cool just pick of the wax cake and you have scorched honey underneath which can be fine filtered if desired. A proper wax melter is nothing fancy. It just has a slanted plate over a boiling water bath. The nice thing about it is that as the cappings contact the plate they melt and run out of the thing into a separating bucket (through a filter plate), and so the honey is in contact with high heat for a minimum length of time. The separating bucket keeps the wax cake on the top and has a spigot for the scorched honey to overflow into buckets. Regards, Stan ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Oct 1996 08:12:12 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Victor E Sten Subject: Re: Cleaning Jars Gerry Visel wrote: >Hidere all, > > I bought some canning jars at an auction to sell honey in, and the >lady had stored them with the lid rings left on, which left some rust >stains on the glass in the lid thread area. I tried lemon juice, >vinegar, and a lot of elbow grease, but it will not come off. > > Any ideas out there? I just got an order for 12 pints, and I gotta >deliver! Thanx muchly! > >Gerry and the other Visels at >Visel7@juno.com > > Use fine steel wool with a little soap. Viktor Sten in Hawkesbury, Ontario ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Oct 1996 16:30:26 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: beesbuzz@pop.erols.com Subject: Re: queen marking Quick question-- All the queens I've bought this year, from highly reputable sources, are marked blue. Does that mean they're '95 queens? I'm surprised/confused! Tim Cote At 09:32 AM 10/21/96 -0400, you wrote: >Dean M. Breaux of >wrote >"The queen marking system is as follows: > White or grey for years ending in 1 or 6 > Yellow for years ending in 2 or 7 > Red for years ending in 3 or 8 > Green for years ending in 4 or 9 > Blue for years ending in 5 or 0" > >I have picked up two phrases to remember the order (from BEE-L): > > What! White When > You Yellow You > Raise Red Requeen, > Green Green Get the > Bees! Blue Best! > > >++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ >+ Raymond J. Lackey, EAS Master Beekeeper, Pres LIBC + >+ Twelve years exper with 25 colonies on Long Island, NY+ >+ INTERNET: lackeyr@hazeltine.com + >+ Mail: 1260 Walnut Avenue, Bohemia NY 11617-2176 + >+ Home Phone: 516-567-1936 FAX: 516-262-8053 + >++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ > > beesbuzz@erols.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Oct 1996 09:33:40 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Wendy Ban Subject: Quick 'n Easy Cappings Processing Regarding the question on processing cappings: I use a home-rigged hot water melting apparatus now, but it is more work and not much preferable to the QUICK 'n EASY method I used for many years (for a dozen or so hives). 1. I got a quantity of empty 3-lb. coffee cans and their plastic lids from the towering stack of discards in the communal coffee room at work. 2. As I extracted throughout the season, I placed well-drained cappings and broken or old/defective comb in the cans, replaced the plastic lids, and stored the cans. 3. At the end of the season I removed the lids, placed the cans in a slow oven (my oven's lowest temp. setting -- "warm"), and let the mass melt. Stirring hastened the melting, though near the end of the melt, the mass should be left unstirred. I turned off the oven and let everything cool overnight. 4. The next day (in a kitchen pleasantly scented with the aroma of honey and wax) I removed the contents. Cake of wax on top with slubgum/goo adhering to bottom which can be cut off. Cooked but not unpleasantly scorched honey at bottom which can be fine-filtered. It's a bit tricky to get the wax cake out of the can, but subtle rolling of the rim with palms of hands frees it, and it can be nudged out over a receptacle to collect the honey. I fed the honey back to the bees, sold it to a mead maker who likes the caramel tones it gives mead, or traded it to a local Austrian woman for her large quantities of traditional Lebkuchen christmas cookies (cooked honey makes far superior Lebkuchen, she claims). The wax isn't pristine filtered clean (some specks and occasional small slum balls), but clean enough to sell to a foundation supplier. I remelted and filtered it to dip candles. The only thing that ever bothered me was wondering what effect, if any, the can metal has on honey in terms of metal toxicity. The flavor is unaffected, and the mead/cookie makers were unconcerned. Wendy Ban 8 hives, Columbus OH ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Oct 1996 09:44:53 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Gene Spears Subject: Re: Pollination Information I N T E R O F F I C E M E M O R A N D U M Date: 22-Oct-1996 09:42am EST From: Gene Spears SPEARS Dept: Natural and Physical Science Tel No: TO: Remote Addressee ( _bee-l@CNSIBM.albany.edu ) Subject: Re: Pollination Information There's an older reference that might be of some use: Free, J.B. 1966. The pollinating efficiency of honey-bee visits to apple flowers. J. Hort. Sci. 41: 91-94. I don't have access to the journal, but it should be available at most major universities in the US. gene ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Oct 1996 11:05:21 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Tom Allen Subject: Re: Feeders and SUgar syrup Al Needham replied to my message relative to feeders. Al I need your help.A lot of you have atrick to quote much of the letter which started the reply. I am not sure of how to do this. I see < .> marks which imndicate quotes.Can you expain how to do this fast. Thanks in advance. IWhen I wish to reply to just one person how do I do it. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Oct 1996 11:41:58 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Dave Green, Eastern Pollinator Newsletter" Subject: Re: Cleaning Jars In a message dated 96-10-22 01:39:50 EDT, visel7@juno.com (Gerry Visel) writes: << I bought some canning jars at an auction to sell honey in, and the lady had stored them with the lid rings left on, which left some rust stains on the glass in the lid thread area. I tried lemon juice, vinegar, and a lot of elbow grease, but it will not come off. Any ideas out there? I just got an order for 12 pints, and I gotta deliver! Thanx muchly! >> Try "Bar Keepers' Friend," a brand of cleanser you can get most anywhere. It removes rust stains quite well, with a little elbow grease. I've done a lot of jars, just as you say. We have some outdoor produce stands over at the beach. The salt air does wonders for the metal lids (we are trying to get standardized on more plastic lids). We have a policy of replacing shopworn jars, or crystallized honey, so occasionally we get back a batch, simply because of the rusty caps. Pollinator@aol.com Dave Green, PO Box 1200, Hemingway, SC 29554 (Dave & Jan's Pollination Service, Pot o'Gold Honey Co.) Practical Pollination Home Page Dave & Janice Green http://users.aol.com/pollinator/polpage1.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Oct 1996 11:42:15 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Dave Green, Eastern Pollinator Newsletter" Subject: Re: Pollination Information In a message dated 96-10-21 13:32:13 EDT, mts@GNV.IFAS.UFL.EDU (Malcolm (Tom) Sanford, Florida Extension Apiculturist) forwards the following message from Nigel Holloway, Cape Town, South Africa.: << I have over the > last few years been doing quite a lot of apple and pear pollination. We are > guided locally by Dr Anderson who wrote a little book discussing the > technical apects of pollination. The one thing we do however lack here is > any significant level of local research into the benefits of pollination. > We have to rely on those farmers who have tried it, and perceived it to be a > benefit, to spread the word. > > I have just recently started looking for sites on the web which could > provide me with sound research results which discuss pollination, it's > benefits, pitfalls, etc, etc. I am thus writing to you in the hopes that > you will be able to point me in the general direction of web sites where I > might be able to obtain quality, up to date information. > > In return, I could try to send local info / experiences to you. > Nigel, and others, check the Practical Pollination Web Page at: http://users.aol.com/pollinator/polpage1.html Please check back in again in a couple weeks, if you are interested in apples. We have more material I plan to add. Unfortunately we are pushing hard right now to bring back in our bees from the fall cucumber fields, take care of a pesticide "hit," and pack honey for the Christmas market, all at the same time. So I'm afraid the web page has to be held off a bit. It takes a lot of time, but I'm sure we'll get a rainy/blustery day pretty soon. We also have a pamphlet that can be given to apple growers. If you want a copy, you can send me a snail mail SASE, or for international mail, enough to cover postage. Pollinator@aol.com Dave Green, PO Box 1200, Hemingway, SC 29554 (Dave & Jan's Pollination Service, Pot o'Gold Honey Co.) Practical Pollination Home Page Dave & Janice Green http://users.aol.com/pollinator/polpage1.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Oct 1996 12:00:52 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Brian Myers Subject: Pierco plastic frames/Buckfast breeders questions Hello - I'm a new-bee, reading and learning and gathering equipment for two or three hives next spring. I am considering using the Pierco all-plastic frames/foundation exclusively. If anyone has any experience with this product (good or bad), I'd be interested to hear it. Also, I had planned to start with package Buckfast bees from Weaver's in Texas. Is there any reason I should consider the Canadian Buckfast breeders instead? Texas is closer to my home, so that's a point in their favor (I live in Norman, Oklahoma, south-central USA). Thanks in advance - I've learned a lot already in the 3 months or so I've been following this list. Regards, Brian Myers (p.s. - My wife read the following poem to me last night as we were discussing bee plans - I hope you enjoy it as much as I did.) ------------ W.B. Yeats - The Lake Isle of Innisfree I will arise and go now, and go to Innisfree, And a small cabin build there, of clay and wattles made: Nine bean-rows will I have there, a hive for the honeybee, And live alone in the bee-loud glade. And I shall have some peace there, for peace comes dropping slow, Dropping from the veils of the morning to where the cricket sings; There midnight's all a glimmer, and noon a purple glow, And evening full of the linnet's wings. I will arise and go now, for always night and day I hear lake water lapping with low sounds by the shore; While I stand on the roadway, or on the pavements grey, I hear it in the deep heart's core. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Oct 1996 10:08:23 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Dan Mihalyfi Organization: sccoe Subject: Re: Melting Cappings Comments: cc: Steven Albritton Steven Albritton wrote: > > How do you melt and seperate wax in a boiler? I use a 20 quart porcelain canning pot, filled 2/3 the way with water. Add cappings of say 5 med. supers. Bring almost to boil, all the wax should be melted. Let cool and remove wax cake from surface. Then I melt this cake in stainless steel bowl in a double boiler, pour melted wax through fine mesh nylon into mold ( I use milk carton). I end up with blocks of lemon colored pure beeswax. Dan Mihalyfi Mihalyfi Apiaries Watsonville CA ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Oct 1996 10:20:50 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Dan Mihalyfi Organization: sccoe Subject: Re: Melting Cappings Comments: cc: Steven Albritton Dan Mihalyfi wrote: , pour melted wax > through fine mesh nylon into mold ( I use milk carton). I end up with > blocks of lemon colored pure beeswax. > > Dan Mihalyfi > Mihalyfi Apiaries > Watsonville CA On my earlier post I forgot to mention: Do not press the nylon mesh with the slum in it. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Oct 1996 14:31:59 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Albert W. Needham" Subject: Re: Geographic location In a message dated 96-10-22 04:08:35 EDT, you write: << Al Needham recently wrote about this, (below) but from which galaxy is he ? Scituate, MA ------------ I SUPPOSE this is Massachusetts in the US? >> Good point Morten!! And so is Anthony's point about race of bee when it is applicable to the particular message. Morten, I will add U.S.A. Even though I am really from the planet "Xenon" - just spying on you earthlings and your strange ways! :-) I uplink daily videos to my home planet. They think it is the greatest soap opera going! Al Needham "Hobbyist" Scituate,MA,USA alwine@aol.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Oct 1996 14:34:58 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jim Moore DTN276-9448 ogo1/e17 508-496-9448 Subject: Q: Holes in foundation - good or bad? I read somewhere,(an old ('87?) Bee Culture?), an opinion concerning the fact that brood chamber foundation with holes is better overall for the bees. It was in relation to wintering and providing easier cluster migration from frame to frame. The bees do not have to go to the edges of the frames to move from one frame to the next in very cold weather. Other than the cells lost to the holes is there a downside. I have the feeling sometimes that my idea of what would be a perfect set of brood frames, nice and tidy and even with no holes, and what would serve the bees best might be quite different. The natural comb in feral hives seems to have alot more pathways. Do the removable frames provide more "order" for my convenience at some hidden expense to the bees? Would providing a hole or two be worth considering when introducing new foundation? Comments? Jim Moore moore@aiag.enet.dec.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Oct 1996 15:35:26 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: David Eyre Subject: Re: Substance for queen marking Wendy Ban wrote >In regard to marking queens: >What substances (besides expensive queen marking paint sold >as such) can one use? Testor's model enamel? White-Out? >Other? Are certain paints toxic to the queen? Is water- We sell a number of different preparations for queen marking. Colored plastic numbered dots complete with glue at $33.35, all the colors from 1-99+, vital if you want to keep track of the pedigree of your queens. Marking pens, just needs a slight pressure to mark all the annual colors, price $3.91 for a single color. Finally pots of marking paint, color coded, dense color, use a match head to administer, price .92 cents US. The whole set, a lifetimes supply, only $4.25 at this price they are so expensive I really can't reccommend them. I have had folks tell me "I don't mark my queens as they get supersceded too quickly" on questioning, they confess to using some obscure paint not formulated for the job. If you change the smell of a queen then the bees we almost instantly kill her and then all hell lets loose. Use the material designed for the job should be a golden rule!!!! **************************************************** * David Eyre 9 Progress Drive, Unit 2, * * The Beeworks, Orillia, Ontario, L3V 6H1. * * beeworks@muskoka.net 705-326-7171 * * http://www.muskoka.net/~beeworks * * Agents for: E H Thorne & B J Sherriff UK. * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Oct 1996 15:52:41 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ray Lackey Subject: stingless bees Someone mentioned a while back ... Development of stingless bees by radiation ( I think ). My son's science teacher found that interesting and requested a reference. Can someone point me to a source, especially on the internet as they are using it. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ + Raymond J. Lackey, EAS Master Beekeeper, Pres LIBC + + Twelve years exper with 25 colonies on Long Island, NY+ + INTERNET: lackeyr@hazeltine.com + + Mail: 1260 Walnut Avenue, Bohemia NY 11617-2176 + + Home Phone: 516-567-1936 FAX: 516-262-8053 + ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Oct 1996 16:11:12 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ted Fischer Subject: Re: Holes in foundation REGARDING RE>Holes in foundation Jim Moore wrote: < I read somewhere,(an old ('87?) Bee Culture?), an opinion concerning the fact that brood chamber foundation with holes is better overall for the bees. It was in relation to wintering and providing easier cluster migration from frame to frame. The bees do not have to go to the edges of the frames to move from one frame to the next in very cold weather. Other than the cells lost to the holes is there a downside?.... Do the removable frames provide more "order" for my convenience at some hidden expense to the bees? Would providing a hole or two be worth considering when introducing new foundation?> I doubt that it would do any good at all to put holes in foundation. Bees will do what they want to with it, including repairing holes they find or making new ones if they need them. I say this because occasionally I get mice into stored supers or lower brood chambers during the winter. They do a nasty job cutting huge holes for their nests. But when I put these frames back on the hives, each between two good frames, invariably the bees do a great job of repairing them good as new. And sometimes, in the middle of perfectly good combs, the bees decide that they need to get to the other side in a hurry, and cut their own hole. The major downside of having extra holes in brood comb is that of giving more hiding places for queen cells. The bees love these little niches for this purpose. Ted Fischer ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Oct 1996 12:17:29 -0800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jerry Fries Subject: Re: Q: Holes in foundation - good or bad? > I read somewhere,(an old ('87?) Bee Culture?), an opinion >concerning the fact that brood chamber foundation with holes is >better overall for the bees. It was in relation to wintering and >providing easier cluster migration from frame to frame. The bees do >not have to go to the edges of the frames to move from one frame to >the next in very cold weather. > > Other than the cells lost to the holes is there a downside. >I have the feeling sometimes that my idea of what would be a perfect >set of brood frames, nice and tidy and even with no holes, and what >would serve the bees best might be quite different. The natural comb >in feral hives seems to have alot more pathways. > > Do the removable frames provide more "order" for my >convenience at some hidden expense to the bees? Would providing a >hole or two be worth considering when introducing new foundation? > > Comments? > > Jim Moore > moore@aiag.enet.dec.com Jim About 5 years ago Steve Taber of Honey Bee Genetics wrote for the american Bee journal. One of the ideas for wintering which he wrote about was a hole in the middle of the comb for the bees to use as you discribed, move from fram to fram while still clustered. I thried it here in Alaska but was unable to determine if it helped I think it did .. At the time I was also trying some very aggresive Ideas concerning wintering and that one was not Isolated and tested so I cant quatify information for you. But I think it is a good idea. Jerry Fries ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Oct 1996 08:40:16 +1100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Chris Allen Subject: Reactions to Stings In recent discussion about severe reaction to stings, some beekeepers recommended a drug called Epipen. It is sold in a spring loaded syringe for self administration. Another option that some may prefer is Medihaler*-epi. (trade name in Sydney). This is delivered by an aerosol device in much the same way as asthmatics will use a "puffer" when they have trouble breathing. The label says that it delivers a metered dose of Adrenaline Acid Tartrate B.P 7 mg/mL In an aerosol propellent. We got it from a local chemist without a prescription. The chemist was skeptical about its practical use. The patient was be cool headed enough to co-operate when this stuff is administered. In a severe reaction to a sting, that co-operation may be hard to get. By contrast, a syringe does not need the patient's co-operation. Regards Chris Allen ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Oct 1996 00:12:57 +0100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Glyn Davies Subject: Disposal of Apistan/Bayvarol Strips Can anyone supply an answer please? 1. If a used strip is exposed, say at a land fill site, how long does it take for all fluvalinate residues to be decomposed by Ultra-violet radiation? 2. If strips are burned with domestic refuse, is the atmosphere contaminated or do the fluvalinates break down during combustion at these temperatures? 3. What do the fluvalinates become on decomposition? Have the residues been shown to be harmless? Glyn Davies, Ashburton, Devon UK ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Oct 1996 05:39:01 +0000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Rick Grossman Subject: Re: Making jelly with honey >> But I want to make some apple jelly with honey; this I have never tried, >>and I wonder if there are any jelly-making pro's out there, who could give me >>any advice or caveats? > We tried this many tears ago and found that the honey gives the jelly a >new taste. I advise making a small batch first and tasting the result. I do >not like honey-flavored jelly. >Tim Sterrett But I found that honey works wonderfully in apple butter. Rick Grossman bmn@worldnet.att.net ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Oct 1996 06:01:59 +0000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Rick Grossman Subject: Re: Feeder bags really work! I just only recently signed on to BEE-l, and saw some of the discussion regarding these feeders, but can someone tell me exact instructions on how to prepare (the plastic bags, not the syrup) and use them? At 09:30 PM 10/18/96 +0000, you wrote: > REGARDING Feeder bags really work! > >Many new beekeepers often write in to express how much help the BEE-L is to >them; I thought I'd add a testimonial from an old-timer. I followed the >discussion earlier on the use of zip-lock plastic bags as syrup feeders, >initially with much skepticism, because I'd had several catastrophes over the >years with feeders leaking and drowning out a colony. "Baggies" seemed >perfectly suited to do the same thing. But with so many delighted with them, >I thought I'd give them a try too. I am now a new convert to this method of >feeding - it's the greatest! The things actually hold syrup, even with a slit >on the top! They allow the most rapid taking of syrup I've ever seen. I >filled gallon bags a bit over half full, and they were cleaned out in a day. >And they sure are cheap, compared with feeder pails (whose rims tend to break >for me, especially in the cold). Even using them at the rate of one a day, >they are much more economical than pails. So far, I can't find anything to >complain about (Oh, yes. Don't lean them against the corner of your hive-top >brick.) Give them a try, everyone. > >Ted Fischer > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Oct 1996 22:08:19 PST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Edwin Badgett Subject: Re: Feeders and SUgar syrup With my program of Juno E-mail, the drop down menu from the options title allows you to construct your replys, either including or excluding the sender's message. You may want to explore your drop down menus to examine your various capabilites in your particular system. Ed ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Oct 1996 20:39:26 +1100 Reply-To: nickw@wave.co.nz Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Nick Wallingford Organization: Nat Beekeepers Assn of NZ Subject: Honey Research Unit Dr Peter Molan, known for the identification of manuka honey as a particularly valuable antibiotic/antibacterial honey, has a Web page now. Its a fairly long address (aren't they all...) so you may want to cut and paste it if your mail programme won't launch your Web browser: http://quasar.sci.waikato.ac.nz/Subjects/Biology/Honey/honey_page.html It has some excellent material on healing properties of honey, complete with all the scientific references you'd expect from a scientist of Dr Molan's calibre! (\ Nick Wallingford {|||8- home nickw@wave.co.nz (/ work nw1@boppoly.ac.nz NZ Beekeeping http://www.wave.co.nz/pages/nickw/nzbkpg.htm ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Oct 1996 04:03:40 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Gerry Visel Subject: Re: Feeder bags really work! On Wed, 23 Oct 1996 06:01:59 +0000 Rick Grossman writes: >I just only recently signed on to BEE-l, and saw some of the discussion >regarding these feeders, but can someone tell me exact instructions on >how to prepare (the plastic bags, not the syrup) and use them? > They are "low-tech" but they work great. They are just sealable ("Ziplock" type) plastic bags in the one gallon size, filled no more than 3/4 full with your sugar syrup, and laid on the top bars or inner cover. (Don't cover the hole in the cover with the bag of syrup.) After you have it in place, first note that the top of the bag is flat, not slanted from a tilted hive or rounded up from overfilling. Then make two or three slits in the flat upper side of the bag, not around the curve down the side! If it was laid flat, it will just lay there and not leak (much.) I dabbed it a bit to get it to leak a little bit for the bees to find, and the rest is history. Like Ted said, they emptied it in a few days, and licked out the bags! They line the slits like pigs at the trough! Put a hive body or super around it and the outer cover on top. Cautions: 1. Fill them outside so your kitchen floor doesn't get so sitcky... 2. Do NOT overfill the bags or they will immediately leak down to the proper level... 3. Putting them on the inner cover allows, (but doesn't facilitate much,) movement of the bag before it's emptied. Plan on leaving them on til empty, shich shouldn't be long. 4. Use a sharp razor to make the slits. Saves jerking the bag around with a dull knife... Have fun! Gerry and the other Visels at Visel7@juno.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Oct 1996 07:20:58 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Richard Blohm Subject: Re: Cleaning Jars In a message dated 96-10-22 01:40:10 EDT, Gerry Visal wrote: << I bought some canning jars at an auction to sell honey in, and the lady had stored them with the lid rings left on, which left some rust stains on the glass in the lid thread area. >> Try SOS or Brillo pads, or an abrasive sponge with some soft scrub. Rich Blohm, LI, NY 50 in 20 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Oct 1996 17:56:47 -0500 Reply-To: smills@wichita.fn.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Stephen & Colleen Mills Subject: New Bee Keeper MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Greetings to the List I am Steve Mills From Mulvane Ks. Which is in South Central Kansas, about 15 miles South of Wichita Ks. I am new to bee keeping and will be opening 2 or 3 hives in the Spring. I just returned this weekend from attending the Kansas Honey Producers convention in McPherson Ks. This was my first introduction to Beekeepers as a group, and I was definatly made welcome! The Program was very informative for a beginner, Dr. Clarence Collison who is the Head of the Entomology Dept. at Mississippi State University, and author of the "Do You Know" column in BEE CULTURE MAGAZINE, gave an excelant presentation on "Basic Fall Management", and another on "Quality of Queens". Paul Jackson the Texas State Entomologist brought his antique smoker collection and gave an informative talk on the history of the smoker, He also gave a very entertaining presentation on African Bee Experience in Texas. Several Bee equipment suppliers were there Dadant, Drapers, and Mid-Con, so naturally I spent more than I should have:) In addition to the Bee suit, veil ect. I purchaced what I discovered to be a really fine vidio on begining beekeeping called "HONEY BEES & BEEKEEPING A Year In the Life of an Apiary" By Dr. Keith S. Delaplane from the University of Georgia. I always hate to buy a vidio blind, but this one turned out to be really exelent even at the cost of almost $60. I Will Continue to follow the BEE-L list gleaning the wisdom of the experianced beekeepers and following the mistakes of the other beginners like myself, I am spending the winter months preparing my woodwear and studing this hobby Thanks to All on the List, I am now out of Lurk mode Steve Mills ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Oct 1996 14:35:24 +0100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Max.Watkins@sandoz.com Subject: Re: Mites and Yellowjackets Comments: To: owner-bee-l@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU Dave, Mites - I wouldn't bother treating at all if you're not getting high varroa natural mortality on the bottom boards and the ether roll is giving negatives. Still wise to check again periodically, in case of invasion from neighbouring apiaries. Max _____________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Mites and Yellowjackets Author: owner-bee-l@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU at INTERNET1 Date: 10/22/96 12:43 AM While checking my hive last weekend, and taking 9 deep frames of honey from a colony I stated with in June (it helps to have a whole deep of honey to start with!), I noticed and was glad to see quite a pile of yellowjackets piled up at the end of the landing board. I was very glad I had reduced the entrance 3 weeks ago, I think that helped keep the yellowjackets out. Onto the mites...I did an ether roll on about 30 bees two weeks ago and came up with nothing on the sides of the jar. I'm not sure if I just didn't see them or I don't know what I'm looking for. I was looking for small, hairy, legged dirt particles, right? I put a grease patty on the week before, but didn't get low enough to see how they did with it. The bees were supposedly treated in April/May as they were building up from the long cold, wet spring and I got them in June. Should I not treat them since the mites may be low enough in population adn the queen has more or less stopped laying? ****************************************************************************** Dave D. Cawley, Maitre d' | ***ALERT shameless plug ALERT*** The Internet Cafe | Scranton, Pennsylvania | ASK ME FOR A COPY OF WEBPHONE!!! (717) 344-1969 | (or try www.scranton.com/webphone) ddc1@lydian.scranton.com | ****************************************************************************** URL => http://www.scranton.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Oct 1996 08:13:41 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Cliff Anthon Subject: "Mildew" Smelling Honey Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >From: Gerry Visel (by way of Cliff Anthon ) >Subject: "Mildew" Smelling Honey > >I have some honey I took off in mid September that tastes fine, but has a >distinct smell not at all unlike mildew. Is this goldenrod or do I need >to replace some frames? > > I know honey will pick up odors, but it is only this batch, and it has >been stored in clean plastic buckets since extracting last month. I'm >wondering if I ought to just feed it back to the bees. > >Thanks! > >Gerry and the other Visels at >Visel7@juno.com Gerry, I am forwarding your question to the "Bee-List". Perhaps someone there can help. Remember tho - smell is also a very inportant part of taste. If it doesn't smell right to you, don't try to sell it. My suggestion is to just feed it back to the bees. Cliff> ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Oct 1996 07:56:41 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Donald Aitken Subject: Re: Plastic Foundation Comments: To: Bill Miller In-Reply-To: <961022002606_548415218@emout11.mail.aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII I have found that both permadent and ordinary foundation is badly drawn if interspersed with already drawn ( but uncapped ) combs. The bees apparently prefer to work on the already drawn comb rather than the new foundation. They seem to draw nice combs if you intersperse the foundation with capped combs. The new combs are drawn to within a beespace of the already capped combs surface; if the previously drawn combs are straight then the new ones will be straight. Any warpage or low spots will be reproduced in reverse on the new combs. DONALD AITKEN email: darn@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca 11710-129 St. EDMONTON, AB, CANADA T5M 0Y7 (403) 451-3455 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Oct 1996 11:51:28 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Faith Andrews Bedford Subject: Re: Quick 'n Easy Cappings Processing I spread out the cappings on a tarp in the woods and let the bees clean out the honey (and, it seems, alot of the junk). I am left with whistle-clean, dry wax flakes. These I then place in a corning glass casserole in my microwave and heat on high until the wax is melted. This is then strained through a nylon stocking and poured into waxed paper cups. When the wax has hardened, the paper of the cups peels right off. So, I end up with a whole boxful of little 4 oz. wax "bucket" shapes. If there are imperfections on the bottom of the shapes, they can be sliced off, the wax remelted and re-strained and almost perfect shapes prepared for entering in the fair, candles, hand creams, lip balms, you name it! ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Oct 1996 12:42:00 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "George W.D. Fielder" Subject: Re: FAITHAB@aol.com: Re: Quick 'n Easy Cappi BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU +++ Faith recently wrote "I spread out the cappings on a tarp in the woods and let the bees clean out ...." I might add that anyone wanting to avoid my sad mistake should keep this AT LEAST 60 to 100 yards from the apiary in order to avoid encouraging inter hive robbing or attacks from yellow jackets which in certain years and places can be a BIG problem. ".... candles, hand creams, lip balms, you name it!" Does anyone have recipes for these and 'you name its' for wax? I am looking to extend our products. Finally, Being a newbie to this grand group (and Internet) I am not yet sufficiently organized to extract & keep the info I need. Thus I lost a recent message about hive products I think it was pollen in honey, but I am interested in queen substance propolis etc. Any info or leads re production or marketing would certainly be greatly appreciated Thanks george fielder 6 to 400 to 20 hives, 15 years Toronto Canada ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Oct 1996 12:01:00 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Dan Mihalyfi Organization: sccoe Subject: Re: hive product recepies Comments: cc: "George W.D. Fielder" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit George W.D. Fielder wrote: > > ".... candles, hand creams, lip balms, you name it!" > > Does anyone have recipes for these and 'you name its' for wax? I am looking > to extend our products. The book SUPER FORMULAS, by Elaine C. White, has all kinds of recepies for hive products. Dan Mihalyfi Mihalyfi Apiaries Watsonville CA ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Oct 1996 16:20:19 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: janet montgomery Subject: Fumidil B and baggie feeders Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I want to treat for Nosema this fall but wonder if the baggie feeder is the right way to go. It seems to me that when one feeds from a boardman feeder the bees have to gather the medicated syrup and move it through the colony over a period of time ... From reports in this list, it seems that a gallon of syrup can be moved in a matter of days-- probably right directly below the baggies with a minimum of bee contact --this seems great if one wants to store the syrup but will it control the parasite ? I know the original work was done by the late Dr. Basil Furgala at the University of Minnesota and if any one there or elsewhere can shed any light on this subject I would appreciate some help. Dan Veilleux Columbus Ohio Janet Montgomery 104 Fallis Road Columbus, Ohio 43214-3724 Home: (614) 784-8334 FAX: (614) 268-3107 E-mail: montgomery.1@osu.edu ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Oct 1996 16:43:08 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "" Subject: Re: hive product recepies See Dr. Bob Berthold's Beeswax Crafting for many uses for beeswax. Larry Connor Wicwas Press PO Box 817 Cheshire CT 06410 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Oct 1996 08:39:12 +1100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Chris Allen Subject: Re: Quick 'n Easy Cappings Processing Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 11:51 AM 23/10/96 -0400, you wrote: >I spread out the cappings on a tarp in the woods and let the bees clean out >the honey (and, it seems, alot of the junk). This is also recognized ia a good way to spread contagious disease among bees. In this part of the world the practice is illegal. Regards Chris Allen ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Oct 1996 18:51:35 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Brian R Tucker Subject: Re: Quick 'n Easy Cappings Processing Does the microwave change the color of the wax any? ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Oct 1996 18:51:46 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Brian R Tucker Subject: Snow Well that about does it for the fall flow here in the midwest U.S. near Kansas City. We got dumped on last night. If the tempatures would have been colder they say we would have got almost 10 inches of snow. Gess I will have to feed even more vigorasly. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Oct 1996 17:59:08 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Tom Jillette Subject: Re: Melting Cappings Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 11:14 PM 10/21/96 -0600, you wrote: >How do you melt and seperate wax in a boiler? > > Another way to melt down small amounts of cappings, is to place an old t-shirt or other cotton material in an icecream pail with the cappings placed in the center of the material, place the lid on the pail and place the pail in a canner type pot (on the metal jar holder to keep it directly off the heat) which is about 1/3 full with water. Place a weight on the pail to keep it down in the water and place the lid on the pot. Set the stove to low overnight and the cappings will all be melted by the morning. Pull the cotton (bag) out, removing all the crud and let the remaining wax and honey cool down. You'll have a cake of relatively clean wax on top and a layer of honey which hasn't been darkened too much on the bottom. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Oct 1996 20:20:52 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Bill Miller Subject: Re: Q: Holes in foundation - good or bad? On foundation holes: When I bought foundation in the past, I always used to punch out the corners. In looking through my stock of drawn comb, I find the bees always fill in the corners. Conclusion: The bees find the passages under the frames to be sufficient. The Pierco 1-piece frames+ foundation I now use don't have holes. W. G. Miller Gaithersburg, MD ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Oct 1996 18:43:46 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Tim Townsend Organization: TPLR Honey Farms Subject: Re: Plastic Foundation MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=euc-kr Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Donald Aitken wrote: > > I have found that both permadent and ordinary foundation is badly > drawn if interspersed with already drawn ( but uncapped ) combs. The bees > apparently prefer to work on the already drawn comb rather than the new > foundation. They seem to draw nice combs if you intersperse the foundation > with capped combs. The new combs are drawn to within a beespace of the > already capped combs surface; if the previously drawn combs are straight > then the new ones will be straight. Any warpage or low spots will be > reproduced in reverse on the new combs. > Sorry to reprint the whole of the initial article, but there have been a fair few of these lately, and I just had to respond. :) For those of you not familiar with the Edmonton Alberta region this year, it wasn't a great production region as we had poor flow weather. Bees need a SUBSTANTIAL nectar flow to draw foundation, no matter what kind of foundation you are using. When you introduce foundation in a mediocre nectar flow, of course the bees will be slow to draw it out. As Donald stated if the draw combs were capped the bees would work the foundation, of course, they had no choice. That's the way it is if the flow is marginal. They need to not have a choice. The other point is that foundation ,if interspersed, is more attractive to the bees as they aren't faced with a whole super of it. Which has been proven to act as a barrier to upward expansion. Just give them some more time, they will fill the drawn comb first, and then work on the foundation. The important thing is that the flow ( the bigger the flow the better the draw), and the strength of the colony determine the rate at which the bees work any foundation. Don't be impatient!!!!!! Yes, bees will follow the contour of ajacent comb when drawing new comb, they are working with "bee space". If I have offended anyone with this , I am sorry, but I hate seeing the same wrong response to something that has been proven to work for the last century and beyond. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Oct 1996 21:25:33 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Albert W. Needham" Subject: Subscribe @ Unscribe Can someone please tell me what I am doing wrong? I want to unscribe from AOL and subscribe thru my ISP. As I understood it I send the following: To: Listserv@cnsibm.albany.edu Subject: Message: Suscribe Bee-L Albert W Needham I have tried this a few times using no message in the subject and using "Suscribe Bee-L Albert W Needham" in the subject & message area. I know AOL will not allow a message to be sent without something in the subject area. But when I try to send this message thru my ISP I keep getting the message back >Suscribe< Unknown command Try "Help". Thanks to whomever answers. Al Needham Hobbyist Scituate, MA, USA alwine@aol.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Oct 1996 19:59:33 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: BRIAN HENSEL Subject: Re: Subscribe @ Unscribe MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Albert W. Needham wrote: > > Can someone please tell me what I am doing wrong? > > I want to unscribe from AOL and subscribe thru my ISP. > > As I understood it I send the following: > > To: Listserv@cnsibm.albany.edu > > Subject: > > Message: Suscribe Bee-L Albert W Needham > > I have tried this a few times using no message in the subject and using > "Suscribe Bee-L Albert W Needham" in the subject & message area. I know AOL > will not allow a message to be sent without something in the subject area. > > But when I try to send this message thru my ISP I keep getting the message > back >Suscribe< Unknown command Try "Help". > > Thanks to whomever answers. > > Al Needham > Hobbyist > Scituate, MA, USA > alwine@aol.com HI AL: CHECK YOUR SPELLING,"SUBSCRIBE", NOT "SUSCRIBE" BRIAN HENSEL bjhensel@metro.net ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Oct 1996 22:56:23 -0600 Reply-To: allend@internode.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Allen Dick Organization: The Beekeepers Subject: Re: Plastic Foundation MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT > When you introduce foundation in a mediocre nectar flow, of course > the bees will be slow to draw it out. As Donald stated if the draw > combs were capped the bees would work the foundation, of course, > they had no choice. That's the way it is if the flow is marginal. > They need to not have a choice. > > The other point is that foundation ,if interspersed, is more > attractive to the bees as they aren't faced with a whole super of > it. Which has been proven to act as a barrier to upward expansion. > Just give them some more time, they will fill the drawn comb first, > and then work on the foundation. The important thing is that the > flow ( the bigger the flow the better the draw), and the strength of > the colony determine the rate at which the bees work any foundation. > Don't be impatient!!!!!! Yes, bees will follow the contour of > ajacent comb when drawing new comb, they are working with "bee > space". I'm with Tim. We had a lousey year and yet I am entirely happy about all the plastic foundation I used (10,000 sheets) . I used it in the broods, I used it in the supers, and over 80% of it was at least half drawn -- most more. In the hands of a capable beekeeper It is far better than wax for consistent quality of combs and durability. I've used thousands of pounds of wax foundation too, and I'd never go back. Regional differences, doubtlessly exist, and perhaps different batches of product get different results, but to those who have trouble with it, I can only suggest re-examining their techniques and timing. Regards Allen W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper VE6CFK RR#1, Swalwell, Alberta Canada T0M 1Y0 Internet:dicka@cuug.ab.ca & allend@internode.net Honey. Bees, & Art ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Oct 1996 09:10:29 +400 Reply-To: dgoodwin@yrhosp.ns.ca Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Dan Goodwin Organization: Yarmouth Hospital Subject: Lip Balm Recipe HI Does anyone have a receipe for Lip Balm or Hand Cream made from Bees wax ? Thanks -- Dan Goodwin Manager of Information Systems Western Regional Health Center Yarmouth, N.S. dgoodwin@yrhosp.ns.ca ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Oct 1996 09:29:35 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ted Fischer Subject: Re: Fumadil B and baggie fee REGARDING RE>Fumadil B and baggie feeder Dan Veilleux wrote: >I want to treat for Nosema this fall but wonder if the baggie feeder is the right way to go. It seems to me that when one feeds from a boardman feeder the bees have to gather the medicated syrup and move it through the colony over a period of time ... From reports in this list, it seems that a gallon of syrup can be moved in a matter of days-- probably right directly below the baggies with a minimum of bee contact --this seems great if one wants to store the syrup but will it control the parasite ?< Dan brings up an interesting point. I think that the idea of baggie feeders is so new that there probably isn't much information on this. For several years I've had considerable nosema (or nosema-like symptoms probably spread by varroa) and little usage of fall syrup. My bees didn't seem to take it very well when their brood combs were well filled with honey. With the baggies this fall they engorged themselves like pigs at a trough, an expression heard on BEE-L that seems pretty apt. So, what I'm saying is that when spring rolls around I'll have a good comparison with experiences from prior years. Have to wait till then. Ted Fischer Dexter, Michigan, USA ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Oct 1996 09:58:37 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ray Lackey Subject: varroa mites and old age OK, I'm getting old and forgetful! I know I stumbled upon a nice page with a writeup on varroa mite testing by Tony Jabsok (?sp sorry Tony) of Maine. Now I can't find it again to point others to it. Can someone point me there ? ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ + Raymond J. Lackey, EAS Master Beekeeper, Pres LIBC + + Twelve years exper with 25 colonies on Long Island, NY+ + INTERNET: lackeyr@hazeltine.com + + Mail: 1260 Walnut Avenue, Bohemia NY 11617-2176 + + Home Phone: 516-567-1936 FAX: 516-262-8053 + ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Oct 1996 08:45:10 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Roy Nettlebeck Subject: Re: Plastic Foundation Comments: To: Allen Dick In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII > > In the hands of a capable beekeeper It is far better than wax for > consistent quality of combs and durability. I've used thousands of > pounds of wax foundation too, and I'd never go back. > > Regional differences, doubtlessly exist, and perhaps different > batches of product get different results, but to those who have > trouble with it, I can only suggest re-examining their techniques and > timing. Hi Allen and all, I use plastic foundation and will never go back to plain wax again. I have been using plastic for 5 + years now. You need to pay attention to timimg and spacing. I have over 2.000 sheets in use and another 1000 + ready to put in for next year. Allens, last line tells the story. It is really great to use and holds up very well. You can't be layed back and not know if a flow is on or not feed if there is no flow. It is better to wait for a good flow. Best of Luck Roy ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Oct 1996 12:16:51 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Dave Green, Eastern Pollinator Newsletter" Subject: Evaluating Apple Pollination from the Apple Itself Evaluating Apple Pollination from the Apple Itself Whether you grow apples, pollinate apples, or just enjoy eating them, you'd enjoy using a valuable technique for evaluating their pollination. Try this on your own apples that you harvest, or the apples you buy to munch. Illustrations can be found at this page: http://users.aol.com/pollinator/sd_count.htm Pollinator@aol.com Dave Green, PO Box 1200, Hemingway, SC 29554 (Dave & Jan's Pollination Service, Pot o'Gold Honey Co.) Practical Pollination Home Page Dave & Janice Green http://users.aol.com/pollinator/polpage1.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Oct 1996 13:23:48 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: David Eyre Subject: Re: Fumidil B and baggie feeders Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >I want to treat for Nosema this fall but wonder if the baggie feeder is the >right way to go. > It seems to me that when one feeds from a boardman feeder the bees have to >gather the medicated syrup and move it through the colony over a period of >time ... From reports in this list, it seems that a gallon of syrup can be >moved in a matter of days-- probably right directly below the baggies with a >minimum of bee contact --this seems great if one wants to store the syrup >but will it control the parasite ? If the top super is full of capped stores, then surely the only place to store would be the bottom box, which is the best place, as it will be used first. But, if the top stores are poor or contaminated by the Nosema spores, then the hive will be re-infected. Then come the spring stress, up it all comes again. My belief, Nosema takes a long time to work out of an apiary once contaminated, especially as the North Americans don't appear to fumigate after Nosema hits. **************************************************** * David Eyre 9 Progress Drive, Unit 2, * * The Beeworks, Orillia, Ontario, L3V 6H1. * * beeworks@muskoka.net 705-326-7171 * * http://www.muskoka.net/~beeworks * * Agents for: E H Thorne & B J Sherriff UK. * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Oct 1996 13:23:43 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: David Eyre Subject: Re: Quick 'n Easy Cappings Processing Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >At 11:51 AM 23/10/96 -0400, you wrote: >>I spread out the cappings on a tarp in the woods and let the bees clean out >>the honey (and, it seems, alot of the junk). > >This is also recognized ia a good way to spread contagious disease among >bees. In this part of the world the practice is illegal. The best way that I have found, is to add the cappings into a hive top feeder, With full access for the bees it only takes a short while for all the sticky to go. It's also a good way to feed a weak or small hive. One point add the caps late in the day for less excitment. While dicussing cappings Wendy Ban wrote >slubgum/goo adhering to bottom which can be cut off. Cooked but >not unpleasantly scorched honey at bottom which can be fine-filtered. >It's a bit tricky to get the wax cake out of the can, but subtle >rolling of the rim with palms of hands frees it, and it can be >nudged out over a receptacle to collect the honey. >I fed the honey back to the bees This in my opinion is the fastest way to feed your bees dysentry! I never feed cooked or heated honey back to my bees, the only time I did was the worst case of brown drippings I have ever seen. **************************************************** * David Eyre 9 Progress Drive, Unit 2, * * The Beeworks, Orillia, Ontario, L3V 6H1. * * beeworks@muskoka.net 705-326-7171 * * http://www.muskoka.net/~beeworks * * Agents for: E H Thorne & B J Sherriff UK. * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Oct 1996 11:40:47 -0600 Reply-To: allend@internode.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Allen Dick Organization: The Beekeepers Subject: Re: Quick 'n Easy Cappings Processing MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT > >slubgum/goo adhering to bottom which can be cut off. Cooked but not > >unpleasantly scorched honey at bottom which can be fine-filtered. > >It's a bit tricky to get the wax cake out of the can, but subtle > >rolling of the rim with palms of hands frees it, and it can be > >nudged out over a receptacle to collect the honey. I fed the honey > >back to the bees > > This in my opinion is the fastest way to feed your bees dysentry! I > never feed cooked or heated honey back to my bees, the only time I > did was the worst case of brown drippings I have ever seen. David is very right about this. Heating causes HMF in honey -- which apparently destroys the bees digestive system. HMF was (reportedly) a named cause in the major losses experienced in a number of outfits in Western Canada last winter. These losses were attributed to feeding of substandard HFCS (high HMF) last fall . FWIW, I really don't recommend feeding back *any* honey that is not still in the comb. Some kinds of honey seem to develop characteristics after extracting that result in inferior bees when fed back. (That notwithstanding, Beaverlodge researches used nothing but diluted extracted honey for feeding in place of sugar syrup (due to budget problems) when they did their research on comb building after the flow. In that case, it worked well). I realise that many recommend feeding back honey and have great success. Just bee careful. Regards Allen W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper VE6CFK RR#1, Swalwell, Alberta Canada T0M 1Y0 Internet:dicka@cuug.ab.ca & allend@internode.net Honey. Bees, & Art ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Oct 1996 16:48:36 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Wendy Ban Subject: Re: Feeding Honey Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit David Eyre and others responded to my description of feeding cooked honey back to my bees with warnings of bad results. I have not experienced any trouble with this. Perhaps I've just been lucky or the quantities are too small do harm. I am aware that many beekeepers and beekeeping manuals warn against it. But the beekeeper who mentored me did it routinely for 15 years with no observed bad effects, such as dysentery, and expressed the opinion that the fear of risk was greatly overstated (he compared it to the 19th c. caution against eating tomatoes). Now I'm scratching my head. Any other comment, observation on this? Apparently bad effects aren't inevitable, but what are the variables? Foolish luck? Quantity? Any further information would be very welcome. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Oct 1996 19:25:50 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Albert W. Needham" Subject: Re: Subscribe @ Unscribe In a message dated 96-10-23 23:02:11 EDT, you write: << CHECK YOUR SPELLING,"SUBSCRIBE", NOT "SUSCRIBE" BRIAN HENSEL bjhensel@metro.net >> Brian: I will do that even though I thought I spelled it right every time when I sent the message. That's what two fingered typing does for you. Simple spelling error-maybe-embarassing eh- :-). Thanks Al Needham ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Oct 1996 20:00:48 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Kevin D. Parsons" <102372.624@CompuServe.COM> Subject: Re: Subscribe @ Unscribe Al, Of all things, how could you leave the "Bee" out of subscribe!!! Kevin D. Parsons > Can someone please tell me what I am doing wrong? > > I want to unscribe from AOL and subscribe thru my ISP. > > As I understood it I send the following: > > To: Listserv@cnsibm.albany.edu > > Subject: > > Message: Suscribe Bee-L Albert W Needham > > I have tried this a few times using no message in the subject and using > "Suscribe Bee-L Albert W Needham" in the subject & message area. I know AOL > will not allow a message to be sent without something in the subject area. > > But when I try to send this message thru my ISP I keep getting the message > back >Suscribe< Unknown command Try "Help". > > Thanks to whomever answers. > > Al Needham > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Oct 1996 20:14:04 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: janet montgomery Subject: Re: Feeding Honey Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I believe that the Bacillus spores of foulbrood may not be killed by simple boiling , even at the elevated temperatures of honey boiling .. If this is correct one will surely pose a contamination risk to clean colonies if the honey is contaminated I would surely like some knowledgable "expert" to comment if honey can be "pasturized" by boiling Dan Veilleux Columbus , Ohio At 04:48 PM 10/24/96 -0400, you wrote: >David Eyre and others responded to my description of feeding >cooked honey back to my bees with warnings of bad results. >I have not experienced any trouble with this. Perhaps I've >just been lucky or the quantities are too small do harm. > >I am aware that many beekeepers and beekeeping manuals warn >against it. But the beekeeper who mentored me did it routinely >for 15 years with no observed bad effects, such as dysentery, >and expressed the opinion that the fear of risk was greatly >overstated (he compared it to the 19th c. caution against >eating tomatoes). > >Now I'm scratching my head. Any other comment, observation on >this? Apparently bad effects aren't inevitable, but what are >the variables? Foolish luck? Quantity? > >Any further information would be very welcome. > > Janet Montgomery 104 Fallis Road Columbus, Ohio 43214-3724 Home: (614) 784-8334 FAX: (614) 268-3107 E-mail: montgomery.1@osu.edu ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Oct 1996 18:29:57 -0000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Kevin & Ann Christensen Subject: Re: Plastic Foundation Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Default Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > We had a lousey year and yet I am entirely happy about all the > plastic foundation I used (10,000 sheets) . I used it in the broods, > I used it in the supers, and over 80% of it was at least half drawn > -- most more. I am also happy with the permadent foundation that we put in this year. We put in about 11000 sheets this year; I'm estimating about 6500 of that went into the brood chambers. One thing to note is that when we incorporate foundation into the brood chambers, we try to always place it next to the first frame of brood from the edge. And of course we only start this once the willows or dandelions are flowing in the spring. This works for us. I'd like to add that while we put foundation into the broods, we also cull old combs. These old combs are replaced with foundation. We are able to do this right in the field because of the strength of plastic foundation. We haul the stuff all over the country. Try throwing wax foundation across the bee yard to one of your guys who is calling for it :) Well, you can do it with permadent. I've had some fall off the truck going 60mph. Not a problem. Kevin Christensen Mallaig, Alberta Canada ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Oct 1996 18:33:02 -0600 Reply-To: allend@internode.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Allen Dick Organization: The Beekeepers Subject: Re: Feeding Honey MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT > I believe that the Bacillus spores of foulbrood may not be killed by > simple boiling , even at the elevated temperatures of honey boiling > .. If this is correct one will surely pose a contamination risk to > clean colonies if the honey is contaminated I would surely like some > knowledgable "expert" to comment if honey can be "pasturized" by > boiling Well, I'm sure not an expert. When I had 25 hives I was an expert, but it seems that the longer I work with bees and the more bbes I meet, the less I 'know' -- but the more I've heard :) > >David Eyre and others responded to my description of feeding > >cooked honey back to my bees with warnings of bad results. > >I have not experienced any trouble with this. Perhaps I've > >just been lucky or the quantities are too small do harm. Yup. Bees are amazingly resilient, and canwithstand most of the help we give them (am I starting to sound like Andy here?) > >I am aware that many beekeepers and beekeeping manuals warn > >against it. But the beekeeper who mentored me did it routinely for > >15 years with no observed bad effects, such as dysentery, and > >expressed the opinion that the fear of risk was greatly overstated > >(he compared it to the 19th c. caution against eating tomatoes). Does that mean that we can actually EAT those things now? Hmmm. > >Now I'm scratching my head. Any other comment, observation on > >this? Apparently bad effects aren't inevitable, but what are > >the variables? Foolish luck? Quantity? Yes. Regards Allen W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper VE6CFK RR#1, Swalwell, Alberta Canada T0M 1Y0 Internet:dicka@cuug.ab.ca & allend@internode.net Honey. Bees, & Art ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Oct 1996 10:42:01 +1100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Chris Allen Subject: Re: Feeding Honey Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 08:14 PM 24/10/96 -0400, you wrote: >I would surely like some knowledgable "expert" to comment if honey can be >"pasturized" by boiling NO, NO & NO. A leading authority on AFB, M Horntizki, developed a test for AFB contamination a few years ago that uses this property. In simple terms, the essential elements of the test are: 1) Honey samples are pasteurized to eliminate everything else and then cultured. 2) AFB is the only pathogen to survive pasteurization so any thing that grows in the culture is AFB Regards Chris Allen ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Oct 1996 20:23:25 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Sam & Cyndi Ortega Subject: Re: Cleaning Jars In-Reply-To: <19961021.220434.2839.2.visel7@juno.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >Hidere all, > > I bought some canning jars at an auction to sell honey in, and the >lady had stored them with the lid rings left on, which left some rust >stains on the glass in the lid thread area. I tried lemon juice, >vinegar, and a lot of elbow grease, but it will not come off. > > Any ideas out there? I just got an order for 12 pints, and I gotta >deliver! Thanx muchly! Try WD-40 with a good cleaning afterwards. It seems to take everything else off, hopefully rust too. > >Gerry and the other Visels at >Visel7@juno.com \ Sam Ortega Lacey's Spring, Alabama ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Oct 1996 22:20:16 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Osmar Malaspina Subject: Re: bee asso. addresses In-Reply-To: <199610091355.KAA29252@bud.peinet.pe.ca> Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Mime-Version: 1.0 On Wed, 9 Oct 1996, Eunice D. Wonnacott wrote: > >Greetings all > > > >I have had a request from our local (South African) beekeepers > >association for the addresses of equivalent bodies in a number of > >countries. I don't have this info; can anybody(ies) in the various > >countries represented on BEE-L help me with the information, please. > > > >What I am looking for is the postal address of the national > >beekeeping association in each of the following countries: > > > >USA, Canada, Mexico, Brazil, Argentina, Chile, UK, Netherlands, > >France, Germany, Italy, Turkey, Australia, New Zealand > > > > > >Many thanks > > > >Mike Allsopp > > > > > > > > > >Mike Allsopp tel (27)(21) 887-4690 > >Honeybee Research Section fax (27)(21) 883-3285 > >Plant Protection Research Institute pmail plant3/vredma > >Agricultural Research Council email vredma@plant3.agric.za > >P/Bag X5017 > >Stellenbosch 7599 > >South Africa > > > > > The Canadian Honey Council has as its Secretary-Treasurer: Linda > Gane at: P O Box 1566, Nipawin, Saskatchewan, CANADA, S0E 1E0 > Phone 306-862-3844 and Fax: 306-862-5122 > > The magazine published by the Honey Council, a quarterly, is called > HiveLights and is available from: > > Fran Kay and Associates > R R #2, Chase B. C. > Canada V0E 1M0 > Phone/Fax (604)679-5362 > E-mail address: frankay@netshop,net > The Brazilian Association is: Confederacao Brasileira de Apicultura Rua Mario Beraldi, 380 - Sta Candida 82650-490 - Curitiba - Parana Fax : 55-041-246 5959 Osmar Malaspina Malaspin@rcb000.uesp.ansp.br ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Oct 1996 22:07:07 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Guillermo Jacoby Subject: Africanized Honey Bees Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" For the last few months since I discovered BEE-L I have enjoyed much of what all of you have to say about beekeeping. An I have learn a lot since. I'm a novice at this hobby. Many years ago while growing up in the mountains of Nicaragua, Central America (I returned to Nicaragua in 1991 after 16 in exile) my grandfather was a beekeeper, Italian bees at the time. I became interested in the subject but do to the revolution I had to leave the country and the farm, which was later confiscated by the communist regime with everything in it. Back in Nicaragua now, last year I decided to go back into beekeeping, and I did about six months ago. Now I have 6 Africanized Honey Bees Hives. That is the only kind in Nicaragua now, they came in 1984. And they are aggressive, very, very aggressive. On a cloudy day I get over 100 stings in my suit, easily! And some of them go through my suit. Last Saturday with Hurricane Lily passing close by, when I went to feed my bees (it is the rainy season down here) one of the beehives swarmed at me and my 10 year old son just by standing by and talking low. It was scary, but we were protected. My question is: How can I get their aggressiveness down? I was thinking of importing queens, but that could bring the verroa down here. Bees are fairly healthy and we don't really have a bee illness to worry about. Can anyone help? The honey season starts in late November here and finishes in April. Regards, Guillermo Jacoby AHBeekeeper from Nicaragua ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Oct 1996 00:59:39 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Tom Allen Subject: Re: Retail Honey Prices Wehave been successful in getting the retail prices in a local market up by explaining the high cost of restoring bee colonies this past year. Almost every week you will find documentation of the varroa problem in local papers and magazines You should clip a few to add creedence to your price requests. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Oct 1996 00:59:40 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Tom Allen Subject: Re: Computer Simulation of Bees No I don't know where the data is available but am more than willing i\to accumulate data for you borh by myself sand through theWorcester County bee keepers assoc. Lets talk about the data elements that you wish to collect and then work on the control factors. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Oct 1996 07:06:53 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: ICCI Subject: Directory Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Is there any Directory for North American Beekeepers and Beekeeping supplies. I was looking it for some time. I find info. in differnt places. Looking for one centralized directory like Yellow Pages. Thank you in advance. Rao Vadlamudi ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Oct 1996 07:23:36 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Joseph Cooper Subject: Re: Directory Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >Is there any Directory for North American Beekeepers and Beekeeping >supplies. I was looking it for some time. I find info. in differnt places. >Looking for one centralized directory like Yellow Pages. >Thank you in advance. >Rao Vadlamudi Four resources: At your public library: Thomas Register Whatever Hoover publication the librarian puts in front of you. On the Net: The IBRA in Cardiff, Wales. Wherever you find them: The list of advertisers in back of the ABJ or Bee Culture. > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Oct 1996 09:19:59 +0100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Dave Black Subject: Re: Feeding Honey In-Reply-To: <199610250014.UAA01889@mail4.uts.ohio-state.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 In message <199610250014.UAA01889@mail4.uts.ohio-state.edu>, janet montgomery writes >I believe that the Bacillus spores of foulbrood may not be killed by simple >boiling , even at the elevated temperatures of honey boiling >I would surely like some knowledgable "expert" to comment if honey can be >"pasturized" by boiling Well, you probably could destroy the spore by heat *but* you need to sustain more than 150C at the endospores surface to break up the coat. As this exceeds the boiling point of water somewhat its not a very practical proposition. That is why we scorch with a flame or, if you had the facilities, 'boil' something else with a very much higher boiling point and hope your equipment survived. -- Dave Black Blacks Bee Gardens, Guildford, GU1 4RN. UK. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Oct 1996 05:34:22 -0600 Reply-To: allend@internode.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Allen Dick Organization: The Beekeepers Subject: Re: Thinking Out Loud -- Long Range Trends & Plans MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT > > An unknown is the US - Canada situation. With varroa moving > > > into Canada ,there is less reason for the border closure, and > >there is some pressure for a reopening of the border. Our > >Canadian friends may be able to comment better on the possibility. > The only people I can find who want the border opened are commercial > bee keepers who based their business on killing their bees every > winter, then re-starting again in the spring with new packages. Well, there are *some* who would like to go back to that, but for the most part, the people pressing for opening the border in the west (which is Canada's major honey producing area) are those who have had some disasterous wintering results, particularly if they are also in the (slowly expanding) areas where both mites are present. Many are tired of working hard, using resources that could better be spent on honey production to ensure that they have bees for the next year. Splitting, raising queens, etc. competes with honey production for attention during a *very* short season up here near north of the 49th. Parts of Canada near Detroit/Windsor are *south* of parts of Northern California. Therefore, in Ontario, this urgency is not felt, since the climate is mild and the season is literally several months longer than in the Peace. BC also has limited areas that are suitable for raising queens and packages. Unfortunately, however, the seasons in these areas are not sufficiently far ahead of the honey producing regions to be able to reliably produce packages and queens in sufficient quantities for the market, in spite of repeated attempts to do so. These areas have never been able to support the number of hives necessary to provide surplus bees in more than small quantities. Ontario and BC breeders have yet to match the timing, the volume, and the quality that we once took for granted from the Southern States, and it is not from lack of trying and government support. Moreover, the bee breeding areas of both BC and Ontario are -- for the most part -- overrun now with both mites. And the trucking distance is considerably *greater* from Toronto to Alberta than from Northern California. (From my place, Mexico is closer than the Quebec border). bees are currently being brought in from Australia and New Zealand to make up for disasters and to provide increase, however the cost is sufficiently high to make the enterprise risky, especially when one compared the quality from these offshore sources to what was routinely available from the US. Moreover, Western Canadian beekeepers are pretty well interbred with US beekeepers. A fair number came from the USA originally or worked closely with some California operations. Believe me, the decision to close the border was not taken lightly here in Alberta. The measure still has only 50/50 support. > There is one main area of concern, Africanized bees. While packages > are kept out, then the chances are we can keep our gene pool clean, > and that is possibly our strongest argument for keeping the border > closed. The border closure will likely expire in a couple of years. For the most part AHB is already proving to be a non-event in the USA. (Many have forgotten that AHB samples were deliberately imported to the Southern US for research purposes some decades ago and is likely already part of our commercial North American gene pool). Having said that, you'll likely be amazed to find that I personally have -- at present -- limited enthusiasm for opening the border immediately. My reasons: 1. So far we have no varroa, and none near (as far as we know). 2. I am not convinced that if the border were opened for imports that the Southeren States could supply bees at prices any better than the current ones. FWIW Regards Allen W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper VE6CFK RR#1, Swalwell, Alberta Canada T0M 1Y0 Internet:dicka@cuug.ab.ca & allend@internode.net Honey. Bees, & Art ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Oct 1996 12:58:56 +0100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Dave Black Subject: Pheromones & defensiveness MIME-Version: 1.0 Morning All, (and 'Afternoon' to the rest of you) I have a question. One of the purposes of the use of smoke is to confuse or mask pheromone communcation between bees so that an agitated bee can not warn its fellows. Do not essential oils have the same property ? If so has anyone noticed nice peaceful bees when using these compounds ? Or am I dreaming (#57) again. -- Dave Black Blacks Bee Gardens, Guildford, GU1 4RN. UK. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Oct 1996 21:06:57 -0500 Reply-To: smills@wichita.fn.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Stephen & Colleen Mills Subject: Re: Cleaning Jars MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sam & Cyndi Ortega wrote: > > >Hidere all, > > > > I bought some canning jars at an auction to sell honey in, and the > >lady had stored them with the lid rings left on, which left some rust > >stains on the glass in the lid thread area. I tried lemon juice, > >vinegar, and a lot of elbow grease, but it will not come off. > > > > Any ideas out there? I just got an order for 12 pints, and I gotta > >deliver! Thanx muchly! > There is a product called SUPER IRON OUT which is available at ace hardware that is supposed to change iron into a clear solution that is easily rinsed away. I have not tried it yet so can't speak from experance. Steve Mills Mulvane Ks. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Oct 1996 13:49:37 +0100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Paul Walton Subject: Re: Africanized Honey Bees In-Reply-To: <199610250507.WAA19304@tigre.uam.edu.ni> MIME-Version: 1.0 In article <199610250507.WAA19304@tigre.uam.edu.ni>, Guillermo Jacoby writes >My question is: How can I get their aggressiveness down? I was >thinking of importing queens, but that could bring the verroa >down here. Bees are fairly healthy and we don't really have a >bee illness to worry about. Can anyone help? > >The honey season starts in late November here and finishes in >April. > >Regards, > >Guillermo Jacoby >AHBeekeeper from Nicaragua Guillermo, A couple of weeks ago, one of our TV channels screened a programme about the introduction of the africanized bee into South America and attempts at controlling its advance into the southern states of North America. It seems that one of the things that the authorities tried was to flood the area which africanized colonies were moving into with thousands of non-africanized colonies in the hope that they could dilute their aggressive tendencies. Unfortunately, one of the things that they didn't know at the time was that africanized queens spend one day less in the cell than non-africanized queens. Consequently, the africanized queen was able to emerge from its cell and go around killing all of its non- africanized rivals while they were still in their cells. So, the attempt failed. I think that any attempts at bringing in non-africanized queens would also be doomed to failure (unless you were prepared to do it on a continuing basis). The one suggestion that the programme did have to make was to prevent the beekeeper from breathing carbon-dioxide over the colony during inspections. In this scene, the beekeeper breathed through a length of clear plastic pipe (about 10-15 feet long) so that the carbon dioxiode in his breath came out well away from the hive. In this way, he was able to inspect an africanized colony without incurring its wrath. The colony remained completely calm. Now, it seems to me that this idea may be alright as a demonstration (although the programme didn't really explain why carbon dioxide was thought to be responsible for AHB colony attacks), but I am not sure just how practical it would be in your case. Surely, the heat would make it very uncomfortable to breathe through a pipe for any length of time, but you might be able to adapt the idea. If you want to follow these ideas up with the programme producers, you can reach them by email at scienceline@channel4.com. The programme that I am referring to was the "Equinox" programme entitled "Killer Bees" that was shown on 13th October on Channel 4. Good Luck ! -- Paul Walton Email : Paul@adrem.demon.co.uk Toddington, Bedfordshire, England. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Oct 1996 09:26:13 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jim Moore DTN276-9448 ogo1/e17 508-496-9448 Subject: Re: Directory >Is there any Directory for North American Beekeepers and Beekeeping >supplies. I was looking it for some time. I find info. in differnt places. >Looking for one centralized directory like Yellow Pages. >Thank you in advance. >Rao Vadlamudi For the US try http://s12.bigyellow.com/ the NYNEX Yellow Pages. Doing a query for all states for the following categories produces: Category: BEEKEEPERS SUPLS 181 entries Category: BEEKEEPERS 317 entries Categroy: Honey 389 entries One can narrow the query by state, area code, or zip code. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Oct 1996 08:37:28 CST6CDT Reply-To: daniel.houg@sunny.health.state.mn.us Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Dan Houg Organization: MN DEPT OF HEALTH Subject: (Fwd) Honey bee research money The below news release from General Mills has appeared locally and is presented here for informational purposes. Apologies if this has been presented before. -dan >NEWS RELEASE - OCTOBER 23, 1996 > > >"The makers of Honey Nut Cheerios, along with the nation's foremost >entomologists and representatives from the American Honey Producers Association, >today launched a national campaign to raise funds to accelerate study of a >crisis that threatens to eradicate America's honeybee population and devastate >American agriculture. > >According to one of the nation's leading entomologists, Dr. Eric Mussen, >Professor of Entomology at the University of California, Davis, an invasion of >parasitic mites that migrated to the United States from Latin America over the >past few years 'now represents the single greatest threat to ever confront the >food chain and America's agricultural industries.' Almost all of America's wild >honeybees have been eradicated by the mites since they first arrived in the U.S. >More than 60 percent of America's commercial honeybees have been killed by the >tiny, spider-like creatures. > >...the Honey Nut Cheerios "Save the Honeybee" campaign will raise funds to >research threats posed by the "Varroa Mite", which sucks blood from honeybees by >attaching itself to their bodies; and the "Tracheal Mite", which chokes >honeybees to death by reproducing while lodged inside honeybees' throats. > >As part of the Honey Nut Cheerios "Save the Honeybee" campaign, between now and >January 31, 1997, Honey Nut Cheerios will donate 25 cents for every honeybee >clipped from the front of a Honey Nut Cheerios box and mailed to General Mills. >The cartoon-like drawing of a honeybee has appeared on the front of the Honey >Nut Cheerios boxes since 1979, a year after its introduction in 1978. > >...General Mills stands ready to donate up to $100,000 for honeybee research. >The funds will be evenly distributed to three of America's premiere honeybee >research centers: the University of Minnesota, Michigan State University and >the University of California, Davis. Each school has established apiary >research programs that have been in the forefront of the search for a way to >destroy the deadly mites and repopulate America's honeybee hives. > >Individuals who want to help save the honeybee should mail honeybees clipped >from the front of Honey Nut Cheerios boxes to: > >"HELP SAVE THE HONEYBEE" >P.O. BOX 5450 >MINNEAPOLIS, MN 55460-5450 > >Those who want to receive a honeybee information packet or hear more about how >too they can help are urged to call the "Help Save the Honeybee" Hotline at >800-362-2006." > > > > > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Oct 1996 09:39:38 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Dennis Cain Subject: Re: Cleaning Jars Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" A quick dip in hydrochloric acid (muriatic acid) available at a large hardware store will take the rust off completely. Remember to handle the stuff in glass or plastic containers and don't breath the fumes - best done outdoors. Dennis Cain At 08:12 AM 10/22/96 -0400, you wrote: >Gerry Visel wrote: > >>Hidere all, >> >> I bought some canning jars at an auction to sell honey in, and the >>lady had stored them with the lid rings left on, which left some rust >>stains on the glass in the lid thread area. I tried lemon juice, >>vinegar, and a lot of elbow grease, but it will not come off. >> >> Any ideas out there? I just got an order for 12 pints, and I gotta >>deliver! Thanx muchly! >> >>Gerry and the other Visels at >>Visel7@juno.com >> >> >Use fine steel wool with a little soap. > >Viktor Sten in Hawkesbury, Ontario > > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Oct 1996 04:58:00 GMT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Andy Nachbaur Organization: WILD BEE'S BBS (209) 826-8107 LOS BANOS, CA Subject: Re: Feeding Honey AD>> >David Eyre and others responded to my description of feeding >> >cooked honey back to my bees with warnings of bad results. >> >I have not experienced any trouble with this. Perhaps I've >> >just been lucky or the quantities are too small do harm. No it's really not luck, you just have not heated the honey hot enough or for a long enough time. If you do it right it should kill the hive in a few hours after they eat it, takes longer if you don't. AD>Yup. Bees are amazingly resilient, and canwithstand most of the help we >give them (am I starting to sound like Andy here?) True on both accounts. I have stayed out of this discussion mainly because in the last two seasons with the value of honey what it is I can't see anyway anyone could afford to feed honey to bees. But if they must I can report that in my own experience during one season when the price of a load of sugar got higher then the cost of the tanker trucks that haul it I turned to honey as a sugar substitute to feed my bees and it was no better then feeding sugar.... That spring I purchased 2 containers of honey in nice closed top shinny red drums from WESTCO or what ever the name of the Western Australia Honey marketing group is called. (They now have a WEB page if anyone wants to drop in on them.) I had a choice of honey and took delivery of some very nice light amber or extra light amber grade of honey, as I was hoping it would have some pollen in it and really did not care what the color grade was. It was not eucalyptus honey. The honey was beautiful, every drum was the same, NO JUNK, and when I need to use the honey I warmed the honey over night in a hot room with radiant heating in the floor and used air to blow it out into my 600 gallon mixing and canning tank and drugs were incorporated into the honey and water could be added if necessary. It was then pumped into 4 one gallons cans at a time and taken out to the bees to be put on the hives upside down on the beehive tops which have a hole the size of the neck of the can. The lid of the can has one or more holes of the size that will only allow the bees to take the feed down at the rate of two or three pounds per day for maximum stimulation. I had no problem using the honey in place of sugar syrup, had no new disease problems, or any signs of any digestive problems in the bees which we seldom have here in California because of the mild winters allowing the bees to get out and do it on the wing and not in the hive. I must admit that sometimes they don't get that far away from the hive and the costal blue gum flow (eucalyptus) is famous for spotting the hives, the truck, and sadly the neighbors wash, cars, and freshly painted houses. More then one beekeeper has paid a price for having his bees to close to civilization during the blue gum flow. Anyway as I said I had not problem feeding honey in place of sugar, BUT I was disappointed because I was certain there would be some measurable benefit or at the least something I could see and there was NONE and that was with feeding hives as much as 5 gallons of honey in season. I did have a problem with those nice red drums which were lithographed with the logo of the Australian honey packer when I used them for a nice crop of Wild Buckwheat two years later and exported it to Europe. The buyer was sure he had been taken and tried to get a refund saying that he had found eucalyptus pollen in the honey. At the time I was into pollen collecting and did a lot of low power looking to identify pollens and other junk in honey and as when the buyer found out who produced the honey not another word was ever said. The original Australian honey had little pollen in it and what little it had was from some kind of mint and maybe some pollen that looked like pine, but no eucalyptus as I spend a lot of time looking at samples when it first arrived for the fun of it. All my Wild Buckwheat honey had good amounts of buckwheat pollen in it as it this area the buckwheat produces a large amount of very nice pollen and sometimes the bees will even fill half full frames of buckwheat pollen with honey, especially if the hives have a few extra entrances as most of mine do. ttul, OLd Drone (c) Permission is granted to freely copy this document in electronic form, or to print for personal use. (w)Opinions are not necessarily facts. Use at own risk. --- ~ QMPro 1.53 ~ "Where there is honey, there are beekeepers" ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Oct 1996 10:32:26 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Steven Albritton Subject: Re: Feeding Honey Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" How hot & how long. At 04:58 AM 10/25/96 GMT, you wrote: >AD>> >David Eyre and others responded to my description of feeding > >> >cooked honey back to my bees with warnings of bad results. > >> >I have not experienced any trouble with this. Perhaps I've > >> >just been lucky or the quantities are too small do harm. > >No it's really not luck, you just have not heated the honey hot enough >or for a long enough time. If you do it right it should kill the hive in >a few hours after they eat it, takes longer if you don't. > >AD>Yup. Bees are amazingly resilient, and canwithstand most of the help we > >give them (am I starting to sound like Andy here?) > >True on both accounts. > >I have stayed out of this discussion mainly because in the last two >seasons with the value of honey what it is I can't see anyway anyone >could afford to feed honey to bees. But if they must I can report >that in my own experience during one season when the price of a load of >sugar got higher then the cost of the tanker trucks that haul it I >turned to honey as a sugar substitute to feed my bees and it was no >better then feeding sugar.... > >That spring I purchased 2 containers of honey in nice closed top shinny >red drums from WESTCO or what ever the name of the Western Australia >Honey marketing group is called. (They now have a WEB page if anyone >wants to drop in on them.) > >I had a choice of honey and took delivery of some very nice light amber >or extra light amber grade of honey, as I was hoping it would have some >pollen in it and really did not care what the color grade was. It was >not eucalyptus honey. The honey was beautiful, every drum was the same, >NO JUNK, and when I need to use the honey I warmed the honey over night >in a hot room with radiant heating in the floor and used air to blow it >out into my 600 gallon mixing and canning tank and drugs were >incorporated into the honey and water could be added if necessary. It was >then pumped into 4 one gallons cans at a time and taken out to the bees >to be put on the hives upside down on the beehive tops which have a hole >the size of the neck of the can. The lid of the can has one or more >holes of the size that will only allow the bees to take the feed down at >the rate of two or three pounds per day for maximum stimulation. > >I had no problem using the honey in place of sugar syrup, had no new >disease problems, or any signs of any digestive problems in the bees >which we seldom have here in California because of the mild winters >allowing the bees to get out and do it on the wing and not in the hive. >I must admit that sometimes they don't get that far away from the hive >and the costal blue gum flow (eucalyptus) is famous for spotting the >hives, the truck, and sadly the neighbors wash, cars, and freshly >painted houses. More then one beekeeper has paid a price for having his >bees to close to civilization during the blue gum flow. > >Anyway as I said I had not problem feeding honey in place of sugar, BUT >I was disappointed because I was certain there would be some measurable >benefit or at the least something I could see and there was NONE and >that was with feeding hives as much as 5 gallons of honey in season. > >I did have a problem with those nice red drums which were lithographed >with the logo of the Australian honey packer when I used them for a >nice crop of Wild Buckwheat two years later and exported it to Europe. >The buyer was sure he had been taken and tried to get a refund saying >that he had found eucalyptus pollen in the honey. At the time I was into >pollen collecting and did a lot of low power looking to identify pollens >and other junk in honey and as when the buyer found out who produced the >honey not another word was ever said. The original Australian honey had >little pollen in it and what little it had was from some kind of mint >and maybe some pollen that looked like pine, but no eucalyptus as I >spend a lot of time looking at samples when it first arrived for the fun >of it. All my Wild Buckwheat honey had good amounts of buckwheat pollen >in it as it this area the buckwheat produces a large amount of very nice >pollen and sometimes the bees will even fill half full frames of >buckwheat pollen with honey, especially if the hives have a few extra >entrances as most of mine do. > ttul, OLd Drone > >(c) Permission is granted to freely copy this document >in electronic form, or to print for personal use. >(w)Opinions are not necessarily facts. Use at own risk. >--- > ~ QMPro 1.53 ~ "Where there is honey, there are beekeepers" > > Steven Albritton LDS Communications, Sports America, Chavin Honey Farms Monroe, Louisiana ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Oct 1996 10:26:56 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Steven Albritton Subject: Federal Funds Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" With all the problems of low bee populations, I wonder if the Federal Gov. has any programs to help begining beekeepers. I started with two hives this year and plan to expand next year. This can be expensive and will be done slowly unless there is some type of program available. Steven Albritton LDS Communications, Sports America, Chavin Honey Farms Monroe, Louisiana ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Oct 1996 14:07:38 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: David J Trickett Subject: Pheremones & Defensivenenss MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I have a few supers to remove today or tomorrow so I'll try spraying them down with water and mint oil laced water instead of using the smoker to see if there's any difference in aggressiveness. I may try using sugar water and sugar water with mint oil also. One possible complication is that my bees now associate the smell of mint oil with FOOD. Wonder how that happened... ;) Didn't someone post successful results a few months ago, spraying a water-smoke flavoring mixture? Dave T. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Oct 1996 15:59:46 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: David Eyre Subject: Re: Africanized Honey Bees Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >is the only kind in Nicaragua now, they came in 1984. And they >are aggressive, very, very aggressive. On a cloudy day I get >over 100 stings in my suit, easily! And some of them go through >my suit. Last Saturday with Hurricane Lily passing close by, >when I went to feed my bees (it is the rainy season down here) >one of the beehives swarmed at me and my 10 year old son just by >standing by and talking low. It was scary, but we were >protected. > >My question is: How can I get their aggressiveness down? I was >thinking of importing queens, but that could bring the verroa >down here. Bees are fairly healthy and we don't really have a >bee illness to worry about. Can anyone help? I don't believe you will import Varroa on Queens. Surely with these few bees it should be possible to see any Varroa on the bees in the cage. I think it is worthy of discussion, who knows there might be some one close to our friend in Nicaragua who has a ready answer! Was there not a post recently regarding AHB being semi immune to Varroa? **************************************************** * David Eyre 9 Progress Drive, Unit 2, * * The Beeworks, Orillia, Ontario, L3V 6H1. * * beeworks@muskoka.net 705-326-7171 * * http://www.muskoka.net/~beeworks * * Agents for: E H Thorne & B J Sherriff UK. * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Oct 1996 21:01:39 +0000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Joe Hemmens Subject: Re: Pheremones & Defensivenenss MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT David Trickett wrote - > I have a few supers to remove today or tomorrow so I'll try spraying > them down with water and mint oil laced water instead of using the > smoker to see if there's any difference in aggressiveness. I may > try using sugar water and sugar water with mint oil also. One > possible complication is that my bees now associate the smell of > mint oil with FOOD. Wonder how that happened... ;) Possibly any odour such as that produced by smoke may block certain pheromones produced by bees. On the other hand perhaps smoke gives bees a particular message. Using essential oils to modify bee behaviour interests me. Perhaps the best starting point might be the effect that essential oils are supposed to have on humans. Peppermint oils are generally recognised as stimulants and therefore might not be good for calming bees. On the other hand oils such as camomile, camphor, cedarwood, geranium, clary, neroli and sandalwood are considered to be sedatives. Whether they would have any specific on bees I would not wish to speculate, but if they are to be sprayed onto bees they should be used in very dilute form because they are quite concentrated. In Mark Winston's 'The Biology Of The Honeybee' he gives the chemicals comprising the Nasonov pheromone as - Geraniol Nerolic acid Geranic acid (E) - citral (Z) - citral (E - E) farnesol Nerol I am NOT an organic chemist, but with the exeption of farnesol, I expect that all of the other compounds could be found in a mix of - Oils of Geranium, Neroli and Lemon. Perhaps this explains why plants such as Lemon Balm have often been described as attractive to bees and sometimes used to prepare bait hives. I have often wondered whether the use of such oils might be an effective aid to pollination. Best wishes Joe ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Oct 1996 16:35:50 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "my name is Dean M. Breaux" Subject: Re: queen marking In a message dated 96-10-22 09:05:25 EDT, you write: << All the queens I've bought this year, from highly reputable sources, are marked blue. Does that mean they're '95 queens? I'm surprised/confused! Tim Cote >> Tim, I would ask the breeders. But if they are indeed reputable sources they would have sould you queens in the range of say a month old. One other note many breeders use colors to mark lines, yards, and so on or they may have had paint left over from last year. We use almost 20 diffrent colors to mark lines here at hybri bees. Dean M. Breaux Hybri-Bees Breeding better bees ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Oct 1996 16:45:17 EDT Reply-To: "Glen B. Glater" Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Glen B. Glater" Subject: ;-) Taken from: WEIRDNUZ.452 (News of the Weird, October 4, 1996) by Chuck Shepherd * Commercial Announcement: Chuck Shepherd's 5th paperback book, The Concrete Enema and Other News of the Weird Classics, is now at bookstores everywhere ($6.95). Ask proudly for a Concrete Enema on your next visit. NEWS FROM THE JOB MARKET * The New York Times reported in April that entomologist P. Kirk Visscher and two colleagues set out to challenge the conventional wisdom that a human should only very carefully attempt to extract the stinger after a honeybee attack. Their thesis is that speed of removal, not style, is more important, and they tested it the only way they knew how: Dr. Visscher took about 50 honeybees over several days, methodically rubbed each against his skin until it stung, extracted the stinger, and measured the welt. Said Visscher, "That's the price of fame and fortune." Copyright 1996, Universal Press Syndicate. All rights reserved. No commercial use may be made of the material or of the name News of the Weird. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Oct 1996 22:34:15 +0300 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "W.Michael Susong" Subject: Commerical Beekeeping in Uganda Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I write for some Ugandan friends who have started a small community based bee keeping operation for commerical honey production. They are starting at the basics and would appreciate any correspondence to aid them in developing a viable business....Thank you, Mike ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Oct 1996 17:25:15 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Kevin D. Parsons" <102372.624@CompuServe.COM> Subject: Re: Federal Funds > With all the problems of low bee populations, I wonder if the Federal Gov. > has any programs to help begining beekeepers. I started with two hives this > year and plan to expand next year. This can be expensive and will be done > slowly unless there is some type of program available. > Steven Albritton > LDS Communications, Sports America, Chavin Honey Farms > Monroe, Louisiana The federal government has no money to give which it did not first take from someone else. I'm sure you would never come and steal my money yourself. If you get the government to do your stealing for you, does that make it right? Please, don't send the IRS to steal any more of my money. I need it to buy hives of my own. Kevin D. Parsons ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Oct 1996 17:31:30 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ted Fischer Subject: Re: Federal Funds REGARDING RE> Federal Funds Steve Albritton wrote: >With all the problems of low bee populations, I wonder if the Federal Gov. has any programs to help begining beekeepers. I started with two hives this year and plan to expand next year. This can be expensive and will be done slowly unless there is some type of program available.< I think that US federal programs are heading in the exact opposite direction. The government is looking for ways to curtail spending, not for new programs to fund. However, a few suggestions on what is usually available: 1) Most (if not all) states have an extension service, run through the land grant colleges (probably LSU in your area, although that is only a guess) that are administered by local county offices. There is often a wealth of information available, as well as advice on local beekeepers to contact and local bee organizations to join. 2) Also look for beekeeping supply outlets (check http://s12.bigyellow.com/ on the internet, looking under BEEKEEPERS SUPL for local addresses). Often they will have bulletin boards with listings of used supplies, which can often be had at a good price. 3) Keep looking at BEE-L. You will find contacts here who might want to sell or trade things, especially if you find someone locally. Most of my equipment has been accumulated over the years from fellow beekeepers, especially those wanting to retire. Ted Fischer Dexter, Michigan, USA ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Oct 1996 18:52:38 +0000 Reply-To: bbirkey@interaccess.com Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Barry Birkey Organization: Birkey.Com Subject: Re: Federal Funds MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Steven Albritton wrote: > > With all the problems of low bee populations, I wonder if the Federal Gov. > has any programs to help begining beekeepers. I started with two hives this > year and plan to expand next year. This can be expensive and will be done > slowly unless there is some type of program available. > Steven Albritton > LDS Communications, Sports America, Chavin Honey Farms > Monroe, Louisiana Like Kevin Parsons stated, let's not look to the Feds for the things we would like. The best way is "done slowly" by our own means as you have stated Steve. I'm glad you have started with your two hives. Next year you'll probably get a few more going from swarms or splits. Make as much of your own equipment as you can. Get to know another beekeeper so you can help each other out. When we are left to our own abilities, we will always do better than any politician can do for us. Remember to vote Nov. 5th. -Barry -- Barry Birkey West Chicago, Illinois USA bbirkey@interaccess.com http://www.birkey.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Oct 1996 19:11:38 +0000 Reply-To: bbirkey@interaccess.com Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Barry Birkey Organization: Birkey.Com Subject: WBC plans available MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Well, I've finally had some time on my hands to do some more illustration work for hive plans. I have just made available on my site complete detailed drawings to build a W.B.C. hive. The current one has metric dimensions. I hope to have a "USA" version in inches that will use standard 19" frames within a week. I will also have information on making angled box joints soon too. I have made some changes to my page URL also, for those who it will effect, take note. http://www.birkey.com -Barry -- Barry Birkey West Chicago, Illinois USA bbirkey@interaccess.com http://www.birkey.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Oct 1996 00:31:05 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Gerry Visel Subject: Re: Substance for queen marking On Mon, 21 Oct 1996 22:31:25 -0400 "my name is Dean M. Breaux" writes: >Dean M. Breaux wrote: >I have found that fingernail polish is the longest lasting paint to >use on >queens. In spite of its very strong odor I have not had a problem with >balling or any other reasons not to use it. FWIW, I have painted one (1) queen using a nice purple shade of fingernail polish. The workers immediately balled her dead. At the club, I was then told to use only plastic modelling paint. (I think it was the color... ;-)) I take an observation hive to schools sometimes, and a painted queen would sure be nice for the kids to find easier, but I'm not brave enough... Gerry and the other Visels at Visel7@juno.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Oct 1996 22:48:53 -0700 Reply-To: alwine@concentric.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Albert W Needham Subject: Subscribe/Unsubscribe Problem MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Once I corrected my mispelling errors (which I made by "two fingered typing" error and didn't realize it), I still had problems notifying the Listserver to unsubscribe from AOL and subscribe using my ISP-even though I was sure I was doing it correctly. I then checked the web site: http://cuag.ab.ca:8001/~dicka/bee-l.html, which was reccomended by Bee-L'er Allen Dick in Canada. He called it a "Cool Tool". Indeed it is. It enabled me in one "fell swoop" to unsubscribe/subscribe ( check my spelling guys :-) ) with magnificent success in a matter of seconds! Thank you Allen!! Regards, Al Needham / alwine@concentric.net Hobbyist Beekeeper Scituate, MA, USA ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 26 Oct 1996 13:37:41 +1000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Bruce Laidlaw Subject: Re: Pheromones & defensiveness Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 12:58 PM 25/10/96 +0100, Dave Black wrote: >Morning All, (and 'Afternoon' to the rest of you) > >I have a question. One of the purposes of the use of smoke is to confuse >or mask pheromone communcation between bees so that an agitated bee can >not warn its fellows. Do not essential oils have the same property ? If >so has anyone noticed nice peaceful bees when using these compounds ? So is my notion that the bees think: "Smoke! Smoke! It's a bush fire! Save the honey!" and then, being comfortably fat with the honey, don't feel like stinging, is that too fanciful to be true? Bruce 10 months, 2 hives ------------------------------------------------- Bruce Laidlaw Head Teacher Foundation Studies East Sydney College of TAFE (Technical & Further Education) Darlinghurst, New South Wales, Australia 2010 Phone: +61-2-9569-2854 (h,) 9339-8648 (w), Fax: +61-2-9569-8940 http://pip.com.au/~abestuds/ (\ /) {|||8- Beekeeper -8|||} (/ \) ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Oct 1996 22:40:57 -0600 Reply-To: allend@internode.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Allen Dick Organization: The Beekeepers Subject: Re: Pheromones & defensiveness MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT > >I have a question. One of the purposes of the use of smoke is to > >confuse or mask pheromone communcation between bees so that an > >agitated bee can not warn its fellows. Do not essential oils have > >the same property ? If so has anyone noticed nice peaceful bees > >when using these compounds ? > > So is my notion that the bees think: "Smoke! Smoke! It's a bush > fire! Save the honey!" and then, being comfortably fat with the > honey, don't feel like stinging, is that too fanciful to be true? Pretend you are in your house and suddenly a large amount of dense smoke comes into the room and you are forced to breathe it for a few moments . Then the air clears. Do you think that at that moment you are going to be thinking about attacking anyone or much of anything except getting your bearings, breathing and choking and your watering eyes? I should imagine that it might be somewhat similar for bees. Of course we cannot see them cough or blink, but we can see that they are disorganised and demotivated. Of course since bees are prompted by pheremones, the question of confusing chemical cues comes into the picture, but I tend to think the major effect of smoke is pretty simple and obvious. Strong scents can overpower our senses and I should think that -- until there is a chance to become accustomed to them -- that strong aromas will cause bees to have trouble recognising more subtle smells. I really don't particularly notce bees gorging themselves after being smoked, although all the books seem to agree that they do. Has anyone actually bothered to confirm this phenomenon? Regards Allen W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper VE6CFK RR#1, Swalwell, Alberta Canada T0M 1Y0 Internet:dicka@cuug.ab.ca & allend@internode.net Honey. Bees, & Art ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 26 Oct 1996 21:55:26 +1100 Reply-To: nickw@wave.co.nz Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Nick Wallingford Organization: Nat Beekeepers Assn of NZ Subject: Re: Substance for queen marking MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT > FWIW, I have painted one (1) queen using a nice purple shade of > fingernail polish. The workers immediately balled her dead. At the > club, I was then told to use only plastic modelling paint. (I think it > was the color... ;-)) I had the same experience (well, it was *red* rather than *purple*, but the queen ended equally dead). Some years later had the explanation that the evaporating part of most fingernail polishes was a sort of acetone (or do I mean acetate - I'm *not* chemically minded, really), and that chemically it was very similar to the bees' alarm pheromone. So I've always given the lay person's explanation of that is why not to use finger nail polish. I've later had near perfect results from typist correction fluid (invented, for those who want misc facts to plug up their brains with, by the mother of Mike Nesbith, one of the Monkees - if that requires more explanation, please don't ask me). In only one of several hundred instances did the bees just chew it right off her (didn't harm her, seemingly). In the other cases, it does wear somewhat, but it lasted the two years required. (\ Nick Wallingford {|||8- home nickw@wave.co.nz (/ work nw1@boppoly.ac.nz NZ Beekeeping http://www.wave.co.nz/pages/nickw/nzbkpg.htm ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 26 Oct 1996 22:00:27 +1100 Reply-To: nickw@wave.co.nz Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Nick Wallingford Organization: Nat Beekeepers Assn of NZ Subject: Re: Pheromones & defensiveness MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT > So is my notion that the bees think: "Smoke! Smoke! It's a bush fire! Save > the honey!" and then, being comfortably fat with the honey, don't feel like > stinging, is that too fanciful to be true? I recall someone's research (who/when/where who knows) that worked out time that it would take for a queen to be 'flyable'. That is, how long would she have to have to go off the lay in order to be able to fly the sort of distances required to get away from a bush fire. And the conclusion was that considerably longer than I would have expected. And that my 'lay' description of smoke makes them prepare to leave the hive would, from an evolutionary sense, probably not be the reason that smoke works! (\ Nick Wallingford {|||8- home nickw@wave.co.nz (/ work nw1@boppoly.ac.nz NZ Beekeeping http://www.wave.co.nz/pages/nickw/nzbkpg.htm ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 26 Oct 1996 07:04:55 -0600 Reply-To: allend@internode.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Allen Dick Organization: The Beekeepers Subject: Re: Substance for queen marking MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT > In only one of > several hundred instances did the bees just chew it right off her > (didn't harm her, seemingly). In the other cases, it does wear > somewhat, but it lasted the two years required. You see, there may be some slight disadvantages to hygienic bees. But maybe here we have a handy test ? Regards Allen W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper VE6CFK RR#1, Swalwell, Alberta Canada T0M 1Y0 Internet:dicka@cuug.ab.ca & allend@internode.net Honey. Bees, & Art ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 26 Oct 1996 09:11:01 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Roy Nettlebeck Subject: Re: Feeding Honey In-Reply-To: <9610242048.AA00956@cbgbcs.cb.lucent.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Thu, 24 Oct 1996, Wendy Ban wrote: > David Eyre and others responded to my description of feeding > cooked honey back to my bees with warnings of bad results. > I have not experienced any trouble with this. Perhaps I've > just been lucky or the quantities are too small do harm. > > I am aware that many beekeepers and beekeeping manuals warn > against it. But the beekeeper who mentored me did it routinely > for 15 years with no observed bad effects, such as dysentery, > and expressed the opinion that the fear of risk was greatly > overstated (he compared it to the 19th c. caution against > eating tomatoes). > > Now I'm scratching my head. Any other comment, observation on > this? Apparently bad effects aren't inevitable, but what are > the variables? Foolish luck? Quantity? > > Any further information would be very welcome. > Hi Wendy, I would say that the % of honey that was heated compared to total stores was small.Now the bottem line is, heated honey is hard for the bees to digest. That is a fact.Beekeepers have done somethings to the bees that has made them less than what they could be.When you do the right things, the bees are healthy and happy. You get more honey and less problems.No one beekeeper has all the answers . We all keep learning more about the honeybee and its nature.We are its keeper and should do the best that we can, with the info that we have.Researchers have found changes in honey when it is heated , which makes it harder for the bees to digest.So you be the best that you can Bee.Give them the best honey you can. Best Regards Roy ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 26 Oct 1996 09:53:39 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Roy Nettlebeck Subject: Re: (Fwd) Honey bee research money Comments: To: daniel.houg@sunny.health.state.mn.us In-Reply-To: <2CFBB9F4E60@mdh-bemidji.health.state.mn.us> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Fri, 25 Oct 1996, Dan Houg wrote: > The below news release from General Mills has appeared locally and is > presented here for informational purposes. Apologies if this has > been presented before. > > -dan > > >NEWS RELEASE - OCTOBER 23, 1996 > > > > > >"The makers of Honey Nut Cheerios, along with the nation's foremost > >entomologists and representatives from the American Honey Producers > Association, > >today launched a national campaign to raise funds to accelerate study of a > >crisis that threatens to eradicate America's honeybee population and devastate > >American agriculture. > > > >According to one of the nation's leading entomologists, Dr. Eric Mussen, > >Professor of Entomology at the University of California, Davis, an invasion of > >parasitic mites that migrated to the United States from Latin America over the > >past few years 'now represents the single greatest threat to ever confront the > >food chain and America's agricultural industries.' Almost all of America's > wild > >honeybees have been eradicated by the mites since they first arrived in the > U.S. > >More than 60 percent of America's commercial honeybees have been killed by the > >tiny, spider-like creatures. > > > >...the Honey Nut Cheerios "Save the Honeybee" campaign will raise funds to > >research threats posed by the "Varroa Mite", which sucks blood from > honeybees by > >attaching itself to their bodies; and the "Tracheal Mite", which chokes > >honeybees to death by reproducing while lodged inside honeybees' throats. > > > >As part of the Honey Nut Cheerios "Save the Honeybee" campaign, between now and > >January 31, 1997, Honey Nut Cheerios will donate 25 cents for every honeybee > >clipped from the front of a Honey Nut Cheerios box and mailed to General Mills. > >The cartoon-like drawing of a honeybee has appeared on the front of the Honey > >Nut Cheerios boxes since 1979, a year after its introduction in 1978. > > > >...General Mills stands ready to donate up to $100,000 for honeybee research. > >The funds will be evenly distributed to three of America's premiere honeybee > >research centers: the University of Minnesota, Michigan State University and > >the University of California, Davis. Each school has established apiary > >research programs that have been in the forefront of the search for a way to > >destroy the deadly mites and repopulate America's honeybee hives. > > > >Individuals who want to help save the honeybee should mail honeybees clipped > >from the front of Honey Nut Cheerios boxes to: > > > >"HELP SAVE THE HONEYBEE" > >P.O. BOX 5450 > >MINNEAPOLIS, MN 55460-5450 > > > >Those who want to receive a honeybee information packet or hear more about how > >too they can help are urged to call the "Help Save the Honeybee" Hotline at > >800-362-2006." Hello All, I'm posting this again because this is VERY important.Money is hard to come by these days.We need the public to be educated about the honeybee and our problems.General Mills should be thanked for there help in a problem that will affect all of us.Take the time to spread the word what General Mills is doing.This is not layback time.This is a potential gold rush.We have to get out the vote and we will get many more rewards in the future. We need the 1-800 # full all the time.The door is open for us and we need to use it in the best way that we can. Our researchers need money so they can help us.This is win - win all the way. We need to make this work and we will have more help right around the corner. Everyone wants to be a winner. If it workes for General Mills, it will be used by others and we will be the winners also. This is my opinion. Best Regards Roy ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 26 Oct 1996 10:20:29 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Roy Nettlebeck Subject: Re: Federal Funds Comments: To: Barry Birkey In-Reply-To: <32710C76.1499@interaccess.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Fri, 25 Oct 1996, Barry Birkey wrote: > Steven Albritton wrote: > > > > With all the problems of low bee populations, I wonder if the Federal Gov. > > has any programs to help begining beekeepers. I started with two hives this > > year and plan to expand next year. This can be expensive and will be done > > slowly unless there is some type of program available. > > Steven Albritton > > LDS Communications, Sports America, Chavin Honey Farms > > Monroe, Louisiana > > Like Kevin Parsons stated, let's not look to the Feds for the things we would like. The > best way is "done slowly" by our own means as you have stated Steve. I'm glad you > have started with your two hives. Next year you'll probably get a few more going from > swarms or splits. Make as much of your own equipment as you can. Hello All, I agree in not looking to the feds for help expanding.We need to get thru the mite problem so we will not loose as many hives every winter.Fed money is very hard to get and we need to pull back and use it only for those things that are very critical. I'm going up 200 hives myself above the 60 that I have now.It costs $ to make $.There is no free lunch.Do the best that you can on your own. Best Regards Roy ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 26 Oct 1996 14:45:18 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Steven Albritton Subject: Re: Federal Funds Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I asked a very simple question. I didn't ask for a lecture. A yes or no would have been good enough. I think I've had enough. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 26 Oct 1996 21:32:54 +0100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Glyn Davies Subject: Re: WBC plans available Comments: To: bbirkey@interaccess.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 19:11 25/10/96 +0000, Barry Birkey wrote: >Well, I've finally had some time on my hands to do some more illustration work for hive >plans. I have just made available on my site complete detailed drawings to build a W.B.C. >hive. The current one has metric dimensions. I hope to have a "USA" version in inches >that will use standard 19" frames within a week. I will also have information on making >angled box joints soon too. > >I have made some changes to my page URL also, for those who it will effect, take note. > >http://www.birkey.com > >-Barry > >-- >Barry Birkey >West Chicago, Illinois USA >bbirkey@interaccess.com >http://www.birkey.com Apart from curiosity I cannot imagine why anyone would want a WBC hive. The only thing to be said in its favour is that if well painted it looks pretty and can be a nice garden decoration. As a hive it is an abomination. This is why: 1. It is expensive,and difficult to make accurately. 2. It is almost impossible to move once established on site, 3. Removing the 'lifts' (outer walls) before getting to the hive inside is tiresome especially on a hot day. 4. The bees do not like the lifts being knocked. 5. Bees seem to like to build comb in the cavity between the lifts and the inner box and when they do there is real trouble ahead. 6. Additional supers need additional lifts too. 7. In the UK version, one brood chamber is much too small and is usually operated with two, doubling inspection time. 8. Many beekeepers in UK start with a WBC that they have been "given" and I fear give up in despair. Those of us who have kept going soon wish that we were on the Langstroth standard. There are good British single wall hives which are derived from the WBC (same frames) but even Brother Adam used Dadants to give a brood chamber large enough for his prolific queens. But beekeepers are a varied lot. I expect someone will write in its defence! Some months ago, Sid Pullinger of Hampshire wrote a marvelous history and description of the WBC for Bee_L.. It will be archived if anyone missed it. Regards, Glyn Davies, Ashburton, Devon UK ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 26 Oct 1996 17:36:12 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "MR WILLIAM L HUGHES JR." Subject: Federal Funds > With all the problems of low bee populations, I wonder if the Federal Gov. has any programs to help beginning beekeepers. I started with two hives this year and plan to expand next year. This can be expensive and will be done slowly unless there is some type of program available. Steven Albritton LDS Communications, Sports America, Chavin Honey Farms Monroe, Louisiana> The above message states the main problem we have and that is people looking to the all mighty Federal Gov. to solve all of our problems. I started out a couple of years ago with just 7 hives and have built that number up to 50. I did not run to the Feds with my hand out to take other peoples money to spend. If you want to be a producer then PRODUCE. Bill Hughes Bent Holly Honey Farms Brighton, TN USA ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 26 Oct 1996 20:07:50 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Bill Miller Subject: Re: Feeding Honey On feeding honey: The reason I won't feed honey of uncertain origin to bees is that doing so is a great way to spread foulbrood around. I have fed my bees unsellable high moisture honey from my own hives (no foulbrood) with no problems. If heated honey is bad for the bees, why don't we don't get problems when feeding high strength sugar syrup (which we have to practically boil to make)? W. G. Miller Gaithersburg, MD ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 26 Oct 1996 21:13:11 -0300 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Eunice D. Wonnacott" Subject: Re: Federal Funds Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >> With all the problems of low bee populations, I wonder if the >Federal Gov. >has any programs to help beginning beekeepers. I started with two >hives this >year and plan to expand next year. This can be expensive and will be >done >slowly unless there is some type of program available. >Steven Albritton >LDS Communications, Sports America, Chavin Honey Farms >Monroe, Louisiana> > >The above message states the main problem we have and that is people >looking to the all mighty Federal Gov. to solve all of our problems. >I started out a couple of years ago with just 7 hives and have built >that number up to 50. I did not run to the Feds with my hand out to >take other peoples money to spend. If you want to be a producer then >PRODUCE. Dear Bill: It sounds to me that this person needs some concrete ideas as to how to do this. Not necessarily looking for a handout, as much as asking for some helpful information.> There are lots of knowledgeable beekeepers out there to respond. Eunice Wonnacott "From the Cradle of Confederation" Charlottetown, PE, Canada >Bill Hughes >Bent Holly Honey Farms >Brighton, TN USA > > ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 26 Oct 1996 20:08:06 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: zaldo Subject: Re: Africanized Honey Bees MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > My question is: How can I get their aggressiveness down? I was > thinking of importing queens, but that could bring the verroa > down here. Bees are fairly healthy and we don't really have a > bee illness to worry about. Can anyone help? > > The honey season starts in late November here and finishes in > April. > > Regards, > > Guillermo Jacoby > AHBeekeeper from Nicaragua I have an idea here. Probably a stupid one. But I won't know that till someone tells me! If you could flood the area with Non Africanized drones, wouldn't they mate with the Africanized Queens, thereby causing some mixing of the Non Africanized with the Africanized? I got this idea while reading "The hive and the honey bee". Something about it being hard to keep ratial purity because of all the drones from a locality gathering at a comon place to meet the local queens on their mating flights. It would seem that by using foundation with larger cells that a larger "crop" of drones could be gotten. I anxiously await replys. Harry Bowie 0 years in bee keeping 0 hives (till next spring) Just a want to bee! ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 26 Oct 1996 17:02:48 -0800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Tom & Carol Elliott Organization: Home Subject: Re: Africanized Honey Bees MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Guillermo Jacoby wrote: > > > My question is: How can I get their aggressiveness down? I was > thinking of importing queens, but that could bring the verroa > down here. Bees are fairly healthy and we don't really have a > bee illness to worry about. Can anyone help? I had not intended to respond to this, since I have no experience with AHB, and no more knowledge than I have picked up from the bee journals. I also live in a climate that is free from the threat of the AHB replacing the feral colonies (we do not have any feral honeybees in Alaska) so it could be argued that I have no place to speak. But . . . . I have yet to hear any suggestion of selective breeding of AHB. As most of us are aware, the Africanized genes were introduced into the USA some decades ago (I forget the actual dates) by the importation of AHB sperm. We do not have widespread problems with the stereotypical AHB ferocity. What is the reason? Could it be the widespread selective breeding that has gone on in this country for many years? I have no idea what level of breeding, and for what traits, has been done with AHB. I am convinced, though, that within the AHB gene pool are characteristics that would be acceptable (levels of aggressive behavior, absconding, running on the combs, etc.) I have been dismayed for some years that I have not heard any discussion of such selective breeding in this country. Instead we hear of fears, and the adaptation people will have to make to the "Killer Bee". I say let the "Killer Bee" adapt to prevalent attitudes of people in this country (or Nicaragua). We could do a real service to those now keeping AHB if we were to export a mild mannered AHB that had the required mating habits to compete with the feral population. An individual beekeeper can do relatively little aside from making increase from the best of his stock. We could help ourselves and others and perhaps gain some ground in varroa resistance too. -- "Test everything. Hold on to the good." (1 Thessalonians 5:21) Tom Elliott Eagle River, Alaska U.S.A. beeman@alaska.net ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 26 Oct 1996 18:32:43 -0800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jerry Fries Subject: Re: Africanized Honey Bees Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I dont know about the carbon dioxide and the bees reaction but I do know that a length of tube of even modest length will not exit all of yopur breath. that means you will rebreath your own air over and over and suffocate. Keeping carbon dioxide away from Africanized bees may or may not be a good idea. Rebreathing your own breath is not. This was on a science program? Jerry Fries ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 26 Oct 1996 18:42:40 -0800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jerry Fries Subject: Re: Pheromones & defensiveness Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >At 12:58 PM 25/10/96 +0100, Dave Black wrote: >>Morning All, (and 'Afternoon' to the rest of you) >> >>I have a question. One of the purposes of the use of smoke is to confuse >>or mask pheromone communcation between bees so that an agitated bee can >>not warn its fellows. Do not essential oils have the same property ? If >>so has anyone noticed nice peaceful bees when using these compounds ? > >So is my notion that the bees think: "Smoke! Smoke! It's a bush fire! Save >the honey!" and then, being comfortably fat with the honey, don't feel like >stinging, is that too fanciful to be true? > >Bruce >10 months, 2 hives > > ------------------------------------------------- > Bruce Laidlaw > Head Teacher Foundation Studies > East Sydney College of TAFE (Technical & Further Education) > Darlinghurst, New South Wales, Australia 2010 > Phone: +61-2-9569-2854 (h,) 9339-8648 (w), Fax: +61-2-9569-8940 > http://pip.com.au/~abestuds/ > > (\ /) > {|||8- Beekeeper -8|||} > (/ \) Thats not too far from what I have read. My understanding is they get distracted by the thought of a fire that they are not as concerned about other things. They want to pack up all the honey they can in case they have to move. I dont know the real answer but I do know that to use heavy smoke makes them take on honey. I use smoke as seldom and as little as possible. Jerry Fries ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 26 Oct 1996 22:05:29 +0000 Reply-To: bbirkey@interaccess.com Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Barry Birkey Organization: Birkey.Com Subject: Re: Africanized Honey Bees MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jerry Fries wrote: > > I dont know about the carbon dioxide and the bees reaction but I do know > that a length of tube of even modest length will not exit all of yopur > breath. that means you will rebreath your own air over and over and > suffocate. Keeping carbon dioxide away from Africanized bees may or may not > be a good idea. Rebreathing your own breath is not. This was on a science > program? > > Jerry Fries I sure am enjoying this thread a lot! It has had me laughing robustly several times. I loved the story the gentleman wrote about, I think in sci.agriculture.beekeeping, about getting all decked out to catch a swarm, even with a plastic bag over his head with a tube to breath through. If we could somehow collect all these stories for a book, I would buy it. Andy would need his own chapter I'm sure! ;>) Who said beekeepers aren't a a funny lot? I can just see all these beekeepers passing out while inspecting their hives. Just couldn't get enough air through that darn tubing, starting seeing stars and whammo, down I went! Maybe a space suit would work? -Barry -- Barry Birkey West Chicago, Illinois USA bbirkey@interaccess.com http://www.birkey.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 26 Oct 1996 18:56:05 -0800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jerry Fries Subject: Re: Feeding Honey Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >On Thu, 24 Oct 1996, Wendy Ban wrote: > >> David Eyre and others responded to my description of feeding >> cooked honey back to my bees with warnings of bad results. >> I have not experienced any trouble with this. Perhaps I've >> just been lucky or the quantities are too small do harm. >> >> I am aware that many beekeepers and beekeeping manuals warn >> against it. But the beekeeper who mentored me did it routinely >> for 15 years with no observed bad effects, such as dysentery, >> and expressed the opinion that the fear of risk was greatly >> overstated (he compared it to the 19th c. caution against >> eating tomatoes). >> >> Now I'm scratching my head. Any other comment, observation on >> this? Apparently bad effects aren't inevitable, but what are >> the variables? Foolish luck? Quantity? >> >> Any further information would be very welcome. >> > Hi Wendy, I would say that the % of honey that was heated compared to >total stores was small.Now the bottem line is, heated honey is hard for >the bees to digest. That is a fact.Beekeepers have done somethings to the >bees that has made them less than what they could be.When you do the right >things, the bees are healthy and happy. You get more honey and less >problems.No one beekeeper has all the answers . We all keep learning more >about the honeybee and its nature.We are its keeper and should do the best >that we can, with the info that we have.Researchers have found changes in >honey when it is heated , which makes it harder for the bees to digest.So >you be the best that you can Bee.Give them the best honey you can. > > Best Regards >Heating is not the problem,how you heat can be a problem. With syrup or >honey if you heat too quickly or heat without stiring you can scorch the >food this will kill the bees. heat in a way that does not scorch such as >double boiler,constant stiring or some way that does not scorch even the >smallest part of the food. That is the way I have been taught and have had >good results. When working with any honey or sugar for any reason I am >careful not to burn or scorch it ( marshmellows) because the bees might >accidently get into it and the results can be seen soon if you are >watchfull. Jerry Fries ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 26 Oct 1996 21:12:20 -0800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Tom & Carol Elliott Organization: Home Subject: Far North adapted bees MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit A good friend of mine, who is not hooked into the net, has requested that I ask about honeybee strains adapted to a climate like ours. We are at @latitude 61 degrees north, but with a marine influence. We can not count of flying days between October 1st and April 1st. We may get some but bees flying are normally lost to disorientation (caused presumably by snow cover combined with a sun VERY low on the horizon. Temperatures normally range from about 20 degrees Farenheit (about -6 Celsius) to -10 F (about -20 C). One big factor is the length of darkness we 'enjoy' during the winter months. If you live at the same latitude you know what I mean. We do have some minor success wintering over bees, but nothing reliable. (Successful wintering to me means that a wintered colony would be at least as strong on June 1st, as a new package started on April 1st.) There has been a lot of talk of good wintering up here, but little concrete evidence of large scale "success". Is there anyone out there with similar conditions who has bees adapted to the region? I would love to hear from you if you do. Of course our bees handle the temperatures with out any problems. It is the duration of the conditions which is the problem. Thanks -- "Test everything. Hold on to the good." (1 Thessalonians 5:21) Tom Elliott Eagle River, Alaska U.S.A. beeman@alaska.net ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 27 Oct 1996 22:10:41 +1100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Bruce Laidlaw Subject: Re: Africanized Honey Bees Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable At 6:32 PM 26/10/96 -0800, Jerry Fries wrote: >I dont know about the carbon dioxide and the bees reaction but I do know >that a length of tube of even modest length will not exit all of yopur >breath. that means you will rebreath your own air over and over and >suffocate. Keeping carbon dioxide away from Africanized bees may or may not >be a good idea. Rebreathing your own breath is not. This was on a science >program? ------------- You could safely breathe in through your nose, and out through the tube in your mouth. I think, however, that this might be too difficult to coordinate, especially in moments of anxiety :) If carbon dioxide really is a trigger, then a mouth mask with little one-way valves might be made. When you breathe in, flap A opens and you breathe from in front of you. When you breathe out, that flap shuts and valve B to the pipe opens. ~~~~ ( o) A \ ( >__/_/___________________________ \ <_______B/_______________________ \ =A9 Copyright 1996 BL :) \ _) \ \ | | \ \ Of course, a lot more flexible and easy-to-use than my rough sketch suggests= ! Bruce :) - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Bruce Laidlaw, Head Teacher (Literacy) East Sydney College of TAFE Darlinghurst, NSW, Australia 2010 Phone: +61-2-9569-2854 (h,) 9339-8648 (w), Fax: 9569-8940 http://pip.com.au/~abestuds/ /) Beekeeper -8|||} \) ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 27 Oct 1996 07:26:57 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Mike Griggs Subject: Re: Federal Funds Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I know that I have cut into this discussion late and perhaps am bending it a different direction but.... Being a federally supported researcher I might add that due to the stability of our funding as compared to soft money research efforts, a federally subsidized program can often cover a research project that soft money cannot. We often have the freedom to explore tangental experimental outcomes that a tighter more focused program cannot, thereby uncovering important results that some of these two-four year soft grants cannot. Long term government money can provide basic research that is considered unfundable within the University environment. It seems that the majority of beekeepers have few hives and do not depend on bees for their lively hood. They also seem to be an independent bunch who do not really want some government (federal state or local) agency meddling around with an apiary. On the other hand a loud lobbying voice can force funding though congress if the lobbing pressure is sustained. A program of research and education for beekeepers could have the effect of insuring high quality honey products, providing numerous bees for pollination of important agricultural crops and reducing the risk of contamination of food products by non registered chemicals. Find someone to call today!!! I know that over the years our research group has undertaken some projects and quit others due to congressional mandates so I can realize the power of speaking up to those powers that handle the money disbursement in government. To get the attention of state and federal funders beekeepers may just need to squeak just a bit more!-) Mike .-~~~-. / } / .-~ \ | } _ __ ___\.~~-.-~| . -~_ / \./ \/\__ { O | ` .-~. ; ~-.__ __{^\_ _}_ ) }/^\ ~--~/-|_\| : : .-~ / /\_/^\._}_/ // / / | \~ - - ~ ( (__{(@)}\__}.//_/__A__/_A___|__A_\___A______A_____A \__/{/(_)\_} )\\ \\---v-----V----v----v-----V-----v--- ( (__)_)_/ )\ \> Mike Griggs mhg3@cornell.edu \__/ \__/\/\/ Entomologist \__,--'HTTP://www.ppru.cornell.edu/biocontrol/griggs.html .-~~~-. / } / .-~ \ | } _ __ ___\.~~-.-~| . -~_ / \./ \/\__ { O | ` .-~. ; ~-.__ __{^\_ _}_ ) }/^\ ~--~/-|_\| : : .-~ / /\_/^\._}_/ // / / | \~ - - ~ ( (__{(@)}\__}.//_/__A__/_A___|__A_\___A______A_____A \__/{/(_)\_} )\\ \\---v-----V----v----v-----V-----v--- ( (__)_)_/ )\ \> Mike Griggs mhg3@cornell.edu \__/ \__/\/\/ Entomologist \__,--'HTTP://www.ppru.cornell.edu/biocontrol/griggs.html ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 27 Oct 1996 08:26:39 -0600 Reply-To: allend@internode.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Allen Dick Organization: The Beekeepers Subject: Re: Feeding Honey MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT > On feeding honey: > > The reason I won't feed honey of uncertain origin to bees is that > doing so is a great way to spread foulbrood around. I have fed my > bees unsellable high moisture honey from my own hives (no foulbrood) > with no problems. > > If heated honey is bad for the bees, why don't we don't get problems > when feeding high strength sugar syrup (which we have to practically > boil to make)? Well maybe you do. It depends on the temperatures that are reached on the surfaces exposed to heat and the duration of the heat, along with possible catlytic effects of free metals. and it depends on what time of year you feed it. Just because you get away with something 5 out of 6 times is not an indication that it is safe. Russian Roulette can seem quite safe -- until the bullet just happens to be in the chamber. (for some reason this illustrates one of the interesting universal weaknesses of the human mind: Humans without training in logic and stats have amazing problems assessing the relative magnitude of dangers. Many are more afraid of being raped or murdered than driving in a car -- (go figure). People are also pretty poor at assessing slight or occasional effects without using recourse to the scientific method, and even then have problems coming to conclusions). The thing about bees is that is that they can repeatedly withstand many abuses without any signs of difficulty -- if conditions are otherwise okay. but add several unexpected stressors, and we see sudden collapse -- or just failure to perform. For example: we do not need to wrap our bees up here some winters. The problem is that we know from harsh experience that other years we get 100% loss if we don't. Moreover, experience has shown that -- in many years -- although poorly wrapped hives seem to come out as well as the ones which we wrap properly -- we get far fewer splits in the spring from those hives although they are to all appearances the same at time of unwrapping. many of the practices we hear recommended do not necessarily destroy a colony, but they may have subtle effects that cause unpredictable or mildly debilitating results. When they add up -- like the proverbial straw that broke the camel's back -- they cause losses of bees or production. For me, honey production is my livelihood, and i am not about to take *any* chances. For years, I hated to waste any feed or honey scraps and tried to get the bees to use them. They did, but i'm sure I lost $10 for every $1 I saved. If you live in some areas, feeding honey back is quite safe, but in others, it may be only a matter of time until you have an unpleasant or puzzling surprise. IMHO anyhow. Regards Allen W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper VE6CFK RR#1, Swalwell, Alberta Canada T0M 1Y0 Internet:dicka@cuug.ab.ca & allend@internode.net Honey. Bees, & Art ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 27 Oct 1996 10:44:15 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Gerry Visel Subject: Re: Africanized Honey Bees On Sat, 26 Oct 1996 18:32:43 -0800 Jerry Fries writes: >I dont know about the carbon dioxide and the bees reaction but I do >know >that a length of tube of even modest length will not exit all of >yopur >breath. that means you will rebreath your own air over and over and >suffocate. Keeping carbon dioxide away from Africanized bees may or >may not >be a good idea. Rebreathing your own breath is not. This was on a >science >program? > > >Jerry Fries > You don't have to suck on the tube, only blow into it... ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 27 Oct 1996 10:59:33 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "my name is Dean M. Breaux" Subject: Re: Far North adapted bees In a message dated 96-10-27 01:16:38 EST, you write: << A good friend of mine, who is not hooked into the net, has requested that I ask about honeybee strains adapted to a climate like ours. >> I would suggest that you try the ARS-Y-C-1 Yugoslavian Stock. This stock has shown to have some of the best wintering traits of any we have evaluated here at HBI. I would then take the survivors and raise queens from them the following generation. Dean M. Breaux Hybri-Bees Inc. Breeding Better Bees ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 27 Oct 1996 10:59:50 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "my name is Dean M. Breaux" Subject: Re: Federal Funds In a message dated 96-10-27 07:45:25 EST, you write: << I know that I have cut into this discussion late and perhaps am bending it a different direction but.... Being a federally supported researcher I might add that due to the stability of our funding as compared to soft money research efforts, a federally subsidized program can often cover a research project that soft money cannot. >> Cheers to an article well written. It in a way is sad, but true with out the reasearch provided and funded by the Goverment and Educational enviroments we would all be severly lacking in information and controls for Mites, AFB,EFB, Instrumental Insemination etc. I offten hear the comments at many of the Bee Meetings in which I speak, that we need better Bee Stocks. But this saga is much the same as the Little Red Hen and the Bread. Everyone wants some but very few are willing to become involved. The general concensus is if you get or find something better let us know. If it was not for the moneys spent by the very largest beekeepers and the goverment, I feel we would really be in a fix for better stocks. With the tremendous amount of support that we at Hybri-Bees have, and enjoy, from the industry, we still lack the funds to do the long term evaluation and testing of stock that the federal goverment and educational communities enjoy. The reasons for this are many but the main reason is that very few people are willing to pay even as little as a dollor more for a queen that comes from some type of organized private breeding enterprise. The reality of this is startling, the revenue from the private sector ( we do not receive any goverment money) and the stock holders of Hybri-Bees will not even pay one salary, for one full time employee. So I must moonlight as an engineer to make ends meet. So while I can relate to the fact that NO ONE likes taxes including myself (I wish that the goverment would take less of my money, I need it for my Family) we all should consider carefully who pays for the information and the stocks that we use. In most cases in this industry it is someone other than the end user. If any body has any questions or comments about this please feel free to contact the undersigned at HYBRI BEES@aol .com Dean M. Breaux Executive Vice President Hybri-Bees Inc. "Breeding Better Bees" 11140 Fernway Lane Dade City Florida 33525 (352) 521-0164 ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 27 Oct 1996 12:55:23 +0000 Reply-To: bbirkey@interaccess.com Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Barry Birkey Organization: Birkey.Com Subject: Re: Federal Funds MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mike Griggs wrote: > Being a federally supported researcher I might add that due to the > stability of our funding as compared to soft money research efforts, a > federally subsidized program can often cover a research project that soft > money cannot. We often have the freedom to explore tangental experimental > outcomes that a tighter more focused program cannot, thereby uncovering > important results that some of these two-four year soft grants cannot. > Long term government money can provide basic research that is considered > unfundable within the University environment. > > Mike Hello Mike - Just in case anyone misunderstood what I was saying in my reply to Steve Albritton, I want to add this. I am not necessarily against all federally supported research. We all (hopefully) pay our taxes whether we like it or not. The federal government does have a role to play in our lives and I'm glad it does as it provides things that I as an individual can not afford by my own means (police, fire protection, roads, etc). But I guess I would draw the line with the thought of the government providing funds to help someone start up in beekeeping or a myriad of other similar ideas. I'm glad there are people like you out there working to better the understanding of the honeybee. We still need to be balanced in our approach though and do everything we can do by our own means even if it means it's the road a little harder to travel. This list is doing just that. We who are on it have made the choice to buy a computer and do what it takes to gain information from others and to help others if we can. We all can't have everything. I keep telling my kids that when they see somebody else with something that they would like. Life's tough. As for Steve feeling he got more than he bargained for by all the replies, I can understand that. I don't want to discourage Steve from being a part of this list at all. My thoughts are to the idea of Fed. funding not to Steve as a person. I've realized you need to have a little thicker skin in this group than you might normally have. I won't say anymore about this issue except to encourage Steve again to do what ever he can with his own means to increase the number of hives he tends. -Barry -- Barry Birkey West Chicago, Illinois USA bbirkey@interaccess.com http://www.birkey.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 27 Oct 1996 15:46:00 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: David Eyre Subject: Re: Cleaning Jars Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >> > I bought some canning jars at an auction to sell honey in, and the >> >lady had stored them with the lid rings left on, which left some rust >> >stains on the glass in the lid thread area. I tried lemon juice, >> >vinegar, and a lot of elbow grease, but it will not come off. >> > >> > Any ideas out there? I just got an order for 12 pints, and I gotta >> >deliver! Thanx muchly! >> >There is a product called SUPER IRON OUT which is available at ace >hardware that is supposed to change iron into a clear solution that is >easily rinsed away. I have not tried it yet so can't speak from >experance. I can only hope that the price of these d**%$## jars were worth all the band width trying to figure out what to do with them to get them useable for honey. After all this it might have been cheaper to go out and buy new ones!!! ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 27 Oct 1996 15:46:05 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: David Eyre Subject: Re: List Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" There is a trend developing which bothers me some, and I believe is worthy of discussion. It would appear that this list is becoming just a question service. By that I mean people ask a question of the list, then arrange the answers to go back to the originator and not to the list as a whole. If this trend continues all we will be left with is a bunch of questions and no answers. I for one joined this list to learn and have my questions answered. I have enough questions of my own without looking for more, without getting any answers. It's a bit like waiting for the second shoe. Please could we refrain from this trend. If you put a question, arrange it so we all can benefit from the answer. Regards to all............ ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 27 Oct 1996 15:46:49 -0500 Reply-To: midnitebee@cybertours.com Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: MIDNITEBEE Organization: HOLLY-B APIARY Subject: Re: List MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit David Eyre wrote: > > There is a trend developing which bothers me some, and I believe is worthy > of discussion. It would appear that this list is becoming just a question > service. By that I mean people ask a question of the list, then arrange the > answers to go back to the originator and not to the list as a whole. > If this trend continues all we will be left with is a bunch of > questions and no answers. I for one joined this list to learn and have my > questions answered. I have enough questions of my own without looking for > more, without getting any answers. It's a bit like waiting for the second > shoe. > Please could we refrain from this trend. If you put a question, > arrange it so we all can benefit from the answer. > Regards to all............ I agree. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 27 Oct 1996 15:58:20 -0500 Reply-To: Ian Watson Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ian Watson Subject: Re: Cleaning Jars In-Reply-To: <199610271954.OAA13465@segwun.muskoka.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Here is another "jar cleaning question" Does anyone know how to remove the glue (from the backs of labels) which sticks to the jars when one recycles commercial honey, spaghetti, or other product jars? Some luckily are water soluable...but others leave an opaque film on the glass which will not wash off. Currently I have one jar submerged in Varsol (mineral spirits) as a test... Any thoughts? Ian Watson iwatson@freenet.npiec.on.ca ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 27 Oct 1996 20:58:54 GMT Reply-To: Tim_Sterrett@westtown.edu Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Tim Sterrett Organization: Westtown School Subject: Bee Space and Apistan Strips I just removed Apistan strips from seven colonies. In every case, the tops of the strips were glued (with propolis) to the top bars of the wooden frames and the strips were glued where they passed down between the top bars. But (with one exception out of fourteen strips) the part of the strip between the faces of the wax combs was clean of wax and propolis. Why don't the bees work on the strips between the frames? If I had left wooden strips in the same place, would they have been covered with wax or propolis? Tim Tim Sterrett Westtown, (Southeastern) Pennsylvania, USA tim_sterrett@westtown.edu ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 27 Oct 1996 16:07:15 -0500 Reply-To: Ian Watson Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ian Watson Subject: Re: List In-Reply-To: <199610271955.OAA13468@segwun.muskoka.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Sun, 27 Oct 1996, David Eyre wrote: > There is a trend developing which bothers me some, and I believe is worthy > of discussion. It would appear that this list is becoming just a question > service. By that I mean people ask a question of the list, then arrange the > answers to go back to the originator and not to the list as a whole. > If this trend continues all we will be left with is a bunch of > questions and no answers. I for one joined this list to learn and have my > questions answered. I have enough questions of my own without looking for > more, without getting any answers. It's a bit like waiting for the second > shoe. Good point David...! I had just noticed the same thing, having asked a question the other day and the kind answerer sent it directly to me. Although I can't remember the subject of the question I do know it would have been of benefit to some of the others to have heard the answer. I too joined the list to learn, and it has been a wonderful source of info thus far....lets keep it that way...Thanks..:) Ian Watson iwatson@freenet.npiec.on.ca ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 27 Oct 1996 17:51:29 +0000 Reply-To: bbirkey@interaccess.com Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Barry Birkey Organization: Birkey.Com Subject: Re: Cleaning Jars MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ian Watson wrote: > > Here is another "jar cleaning question" > > Does anyone know how to remove the glue (from the backs of labels) which > sticks to the jars when one recycles commercial honey, spaghetti, or other > product jars? Some luckily are water soluable...but others leave an opaque > film on the glass which will not wash off. Currently I have one jar > submerged in Varsol (mineral spirits) as a test... > > Any thoughts? > > Ian Watson > iwatson@freenet.npiec.on.ca Ian - There is a product here in the states called De-Solv-it that works great. It's manufactured in Chandler, Az. but the company name I can't make out because the label has been dissolved ;>) Don Aslett's "Cleaning Center" sells it too. The number is 1-800-451-2402. A one pint container sells for $5.50 and they ship to Canada. -Barry -- Barry Birkey West Chicago, Illinois USA bbirkey@interaccess.com http://www.birkey.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 27 Oct 1996 18:50:00 GMT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Andy Nachbaur Organization: WILD BEE'S BBS (209) 826-8107 LOS BANOS, CA Subject: Betty Crocker "Save our bees" Question? What's Betty Crocker have to do with the "Save the Honeybee" campaign? Answer. Mumbles the OLd Drone, "NutszenHoney" Nobody but a OLd Drone would look a gift horse in the mouth or speak with a mouth full of Honey Nut Cheerios! DH>>NEWS RELEASE - OCTOBER 23, 1996 >>...the Honey Nut Cheerios "Save the Honeybee" campaign will raise funds to >>January 31, 1997, Honey Nut Cheerios will donate 25 cents for every honeybe >>clipped from the front of a Honey Nut Cheerios box and mailed to General Mi >>...General Mills stands ready to donate up to $100,000 for honeybee researc Humm, thats 400,000 little boxes of Cheerios at 5$ a box.. if each of you eats how many boxes? Boy did I luck out, it's been a few years since I fed my last box of Cheerios to my dog so I could get the Lone Ranger prize Indian Village cut out off the box. And when I went looking for Honey Nut Cheerios at my local super market I was very happy to find it was on sale at 99 cents for a 6.5 oz box. I had already made up my mind that if it was still $5 a box I would just cut that bee off the front of the box and send it in for the beekeepers prize of $100,000., more or less, for three universities who do bee research and always in need of more money. >>The funds will be evenly distributed to three of America's premiere honeybe >>research centers: the University of Minnesota, Michigan State University a >>the University of California, Davis. Each school has established apiary >>research programs that have been in the forefront of the search for a way t >>destroy the deadly mites and repopulate America's honeybee hives. They get 1/3 each of the up to $100,000., the US Postal Service also gets up to $128,000. in increased postage revenues which will no doubt increase their net loss for the year if we send in all 400,000 bees cut from the Honey Net Cheerios boxes one at a time. >>Individuals who want to help save the honeybee should mail honeybees clippe >>from the front of Honey Nut Cheerios boxes to: I wonder how many of these you could clip off the boxes before the store security people would catch and throw you out. I could get life in prison on the new federal/state "three strike" laws as I have already earned two just for keeping bees. >>Those who want to receive a honeybee information packet or hear more about >>too they can help are urged to call the "Help Save the Honeybee" Hotline at >>800-362-2006." If you called this number today you m-a-y get the information before the deadline for this offer, Jan. 31, 1997. but there is no guarantee for waiting to call later next month. I also called around to a few who should know what is going on and found out that General Mills did contact the national beekeeping associations and others and it seems that there is little industry tie in for this "save the honeybee" effort other then the endorsement by those who were contacted. It is up to you and I, and I don't know how many of these 99 cent boxes I can handle and ever since I got concerned with the urinary track of my cat I am not sure I want to force feed him all these Cheerios. I say this with both him and I having face fulls of these wonderful HONEY NUT CHEERIOS as I am sure that even though they leave a salty taste on my pallet they are cheeper then the same product labeled as cat food and my cat seems to like them as well as I do. He is funny that way, he will eat anything I eat, but I am not game to follow him in what he eats. Dog biscuits that clean the teeth are OK, but some of that stinky cat food would gag a maggot... I just notice a "warning label" on the top flap of my 99 cent box fast becoming half empty. Humm...looking at it with my ten XX hand lens its not a warning label at all just a notice that 35% of the post consumed contents are made from recycled diapers or something like that. But don't worry the toxic chemicals used to bleach old diapers will kill all the bacteria in them and all the fish in the streams for 50 miles in any direction from the recycle paper plant until they brake down into harmless die oxen's which is the safe level if fed to a pair of ox and only one dies. As long as I got the spy glass out might as well check the small print on the side of the box that list the ingredients used to qualify the box contents as food since its a well know fact that pizza boxes are about as good in the dark as the pizza from some national chains.....Humm not so bad,, sugar still the main ingredient after oat flour, but honey is listed ahead of the brown sugar syrup, salt, and almond dust, what is this stuff called TROCPHEROLS, now thats got to be something we could feed bees and kill the biggest vampire mites. Thank you Betty Crocker..! ttul OLd Drone (c) Permission is granted to freely copy this document in any form, or to print for any use. (w)Opinions are not necessarily facts. Use at own risk. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 27 Oct 1996 16:01:15 -0600 Reply-To: allend@internode.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Allen Dick Organization: The Beekeepers Subject: Re: List & Summaries, etc. Comments: To: midnitebee@cybertours.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT > > It would appear that this list is > > becoming just a question service. By that I mean people ask a > > question of the list, then arrange the answers to go back to the > > originator and not to the list as a whole. Actually, this behaviour is quite proper etiquette -- and de rigeur -- especially on larger lists than this. Since this is a free medium, I expect that some will continue to post junk, some will ask for direct answers, some will try to tell everyone else to do, and most will continue to ignore them :) I trust most of us have read and re-read the netiquette articles on list and USENET writing and behaviour that were developed in the early history of this medium and try to keep fairly close to them. When polite people request answers to questions they feel are potentially not of interest to the list, they typically say "Will summarize" at the end of the request. That means that they will read the responses and send one summary of all the answers to the list, thus reducing traffic. In that vein, I must point out that if you see a question posted that interests you, you are entirely within your rights to write the author and ask to share any responses. It's also a good way to make friends. But I suspect that if you see a question posted that does not receive an answer, it is simply because no one answers. I have sure seen some very trivial and personal responses go to the list lately, and assume that they were intended for email and got sent to the wrong place. This happens. In fact, I think I sent one aimed at afellow who had sent me some info. I thanked *everyone* (Ooops!) (For a number of reason(s) BEE-L never seems to grow much. Ironically , one of the reasons that many give for leaving the list is the amount of 'chatter' that gets going periodically. Others tire of the same basic questions arising repeatedly. Some get their feelings or sensitivities hurt when controversy or bad manners break out). It is clear case of not being able to please all the people all the time. Personally, I think it is unreasonable to expect to do so, and I don't try. --------------------------------- Actually, since this topic (summaries) has come up, I admit I have been feeling a bit guilty because I owe the list a two summaries: One on the question of disease and beekeepers, and the other on the question of oils for mite control. I have received input on both and have not yet summarized -- partly because an ISP went down in the midst and the articles are scattered over several disks. (no excuse, I know!) Anyhow, on the cancer matter, all I can say in the meantime is that i got replies that show that serious beekeepers *can* get serious diseases -- just like the rest of the population. And as far as the essential oils thing, I doubt I will be able to summarise it fairly, since all the info I got has spread like wildfire -- right or wrong -- over the net and beekeeping newsletters. All I can say id I hope it really does work, because an uncritical beekeeping public has swallowed the idea whole. Regards Allen W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper VE6CFK RR#1, Swalwell, Alberta Canada T0M 1Y0 Internet:dicka@cuug.ab.ca & allend@internode.net Honey. Bees, & Art ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 27 Oct 1996 19:34:46 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Kevin D. Parsons" <102372.624@CompuServe.COM> Subject: Re: Cleaning Jars > Here is another "jar cleaning question" > > Does anyone know how to remove the glue (from the backs of labels) which > sticks to the jars when one recycles commercial honey, spaghetti, or other > product jars? Some luckily are water soluable...but others leave an opaque > film on the glass which will not wash off. Currently I have one jar > submerged in Varsol (mineral spirits) as a test... > > Any thoughts? When I was getting bottles for home-brewed beer I found that if you let them soak overnight in a bucket of water with some ammonia in it, the labels fell right off. Any remaining glue came off with a little brushing. You might want to let them soak outside though and avoid the aroma! Kevin D. Parsons ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 27 Oct 1996 20:29:19 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Faith Andrews Bedford Subject: Re: FAITH's recipes for lip balm, etc. George Fielding wanted my recipes for lip balms, etc. The best source is Connie Kreshmel's (spelling?) book, probably available from Root. For lip balm, I melt a small amount of my finest wax, add some vit. E oil and some essential oils for fragrance and some Vaseline until I get just the right consistency and aroma that I like. I let the first try harden, test it on fingers and lips and add more of whatever seems missing until it is O.K. I do this all in a paper cup in the microwave. When it is just right, I melt it again and pour it into little flat pill cases (available from the Container Store, Rockville Pike, Rockville, MD). As for handcream, it's been a long time since I made some and I have forgotten the recipe something about lanolin, glycerin, wax, aromatic oils, Vit. E (cuz I just like that vitamin for topical use) and vaseline. Perhaps someone else has a recipe on hand. The "whatevers" are such things as wax poured into ice cube trays or pretty hexagonal molds with bee design and sold in gift shops with an explanatory note affixed (try sewing shops too, wax drawn over thread helps with threading a needle). For more ideas on markets, check my recent article "A Tisket and Tasket" in ABJ or "gotta Geta Gimmick" in "Bee Culture". Good luck and I hope others add their special recipes to the Bee Line. Faith Andrews Bedford Beekeeper, Ivy VA an Tampa FL ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 27 Oct 1996 20:29:22 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Faith Andrews Bedford Subject: Re: Quick 'n Easy Cappings Processing I am interested that Chris Allen thinks that letting the bees clean out the cappins is a good way to spread disease. I certainly will be more careful in the future. But, I am interested to know what the difference between lettting the girls clean out cappings and letting them clean out the extracted supers is. I also stack those in the woods and let 'em go at it. It that also a problem? Faith Andrews Bedford Beekeeper, Ivy VA and Tampa FL ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Oct 1996 13:40:14 +1000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Chris Allen Subject: Re: Quick 'n Easy Cappings Processing Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 08:29 PM 27/10/96 -0500, you wrote: >I am interested to know what the difference between >letting the girls clean out cappings and letting them clean out the >extracted supers is. I also stack those in the woods and let 'em go at it. > It that also a problem? Yes it is. The spores for a lot of the pothogens that trouble bees can be transmitted by the honey. If the colony from which you extract has a history of any of these pothogens, you are likely to have more of these spores in your honey than you think. Consequently when you invite all the foragers in the in the neighborhood to a free nosh they can pick up the pathogens in your honey and take them back to their own colony. Alternatively, foragers from diseased hives may deposit those same pathogens on your empty frames. I suppose a lot depends on th background level of infection. Here in NSW that background level is low and we want to keep it that way. Allowing beekeepers to deliberately expose diseased material is regarded as too dangerous for health of the whole industry so the practice is banned. In other parts of the world (yours perhaps?) the background level of infection may be much higher. In this case exposing old combs, supers, cappings etc may not make any difference. A good beekeeper will stay on top of the disease problem and not allow any hives to develop any symptoms. If you are one of them, try getting your honey tested for the presence of disease pathogens. When this was introduced here a few years ago, several conscientious beekeepers got a nasty shock. Regards Chris Allen -- End --