Received: from relay.internode.net (relay.internode.net [198.161.228.50]) by sysx.internode.net (NTMail 3.02.12) with ESMTP id allend for ; Wed, 29 Jan 1997 09:58:48 -0700 Received: from [169.226.1.21] by relay.internode.net (SMTPD32-3.02) id AD2C2F60140; Wed, 29 Jan 1997 09:39:08 -0700 Received: from CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU by CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU (IBM VM SMTP V2R3) with BSMTP id 7275; Wed, 29 Jan 97 11:50:58 EST Received: from CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU (NJE origin LISTSERV@ALBNYVM1) by CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU (LMail V1.2c/1.8c) with BSMTP id 7293; Wed, 29 Jan 1997 11:50:50 -0500 Date: Wed, 29 Jan 1997 11:50:44 -0500 From: "L-Soft list server at University at Albany (1.8c)" Subject: File: "BEE-L LOG9612D" To: "W. Allen Dick" Resent-From: Resent-Date: Wed, 29 Jan 97 09:40:07 EST Resent-To: allend@mail1.internode.net Message-Id: <16584810803477@systronix.net> ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 21 Dec 1996 19:59:03 +1100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Nick Wallingford Subject: Chat room update... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT About the same time I finally got things up and running, and gave the proper URL, the server has gone down. I'll send another message to the list as soon as it is back up and running... (\ Nick Wallingford {|||8- home nickw@wave.co.nz (/ work nw1@boppoly.ac.nz NZ Beekeeping http://www.wave.co.nz/pages/nickw/nzbkpg.htm ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 20 Dec 1996 22:17:22 -0900 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jerry Fries Subject: Re: Okay, okay!! Let's not start this!! Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" You wont get flamed from me. There must be a religious list some where a person can use,that would be a good place for religious discussion. Jerry Fries ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 20 Dec 1996 22:48:19 -0900 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jerry Fries Subject: Re: stop it right now Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I have no idea what you are getting so excited about it must not be coming on my screen , but my wife is a librarian. If you give her half a chance she may be able to find it through some of her many connections.One quick scource is to go to a book store like Borders and ask them to order it for you,in the process of looking it up for you you can get a lot of usefull information. I am seriously trying to be of help,I do not intend to offend. Jerry Fries ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 21 Dec 1996 10:42:27 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: dvisrael Subject: Re: stop it right now MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jinnah Edun wrote: > > ALL RIGHT! THIS HAS GONE FAR ENOUGH. ALL I DID WAS ASK ONE SIMPLE QUESTION > ABOUT A BOOK "DO YOU KNOW WHERE I CAN FIND THE BOOK BY ROBERT E. DONOVAN?" I > DID NOT ASK FOR ANYTHING MORE ABOUT BEE BIOLOGY. SO ALL YOU WHO ARE SENDING > IT, THIS MUST STOP. THANK YOU. You must be confused. Your original post was posted numerous times. You must have hit the send key at least 8 times. Now to your other problem. Your address cannot be singled out. Read your instructions. If you don't want it all, just sign off. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 21 Dec 1996 10:44:09 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: dvisrael Subject: Re: Chat room update... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Nick Wallingford wrote: > > About the same time I finally got things up and running, and gave the > proper URL, the server has gone down. I'll send another message to > the list as soon as it is back up and running... > > (\ Nick Wallingford > {|||8- home nickw@wave.co.nz > (/ work nw1@boppoly.ac.nz > NZ Beekeeping http://www.wave.co.nz/pages/nickw/nzbkpg.htm I have Netscape. How do I get JAVA? Thanks ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 21 Dec 1996 09:14:28 -0800 Reply-To: alwine@dreamcom.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Al Needham Subject: Re: stop it right now MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jerry Fries wrote: > Jeery Fries wrote: > I am seriously trying to be of help,I do not intend to offend. Seriously, Jerry, you "do not offend me"! Al -- * Have A Happy And Relaxing Holiday Season * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Al Needham,Scituate,MA,USA ** alwine@dreamcom.net * * >"The HoneyBee"-An Educational Software Program V1.0< * * Available from Sweden at: Http://www.kuai.se/~beeman/ * * Visit this site for close-up photos of Honey Bees at * * work and see how Honey is processed. * * " Version 2.0 coming in '97'.....stay tuned in! " * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 21 Dec 1996 08:24:06 -0600 Reply-To: allend@internode.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Allen Dick Organization: The Beekeepers Subject: (Fwd) Re: Bkprs Chat Page MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Nick wrote... > I've set up a page for 'chat' (keyboard to keyboard with multiple > people) for beekeepers' use. It has some advantage in that it > doesn't require IRC or telnet software, but just a normal (Java > enabled) brower. Give it a try at: > > http://www.wave.co.nz/pages/chat.htm > Allen writes... The address is actually: http://www.wave.co.nz/pages/nickw/chat.htm ...and I am logged on there as of 8:10 AM MST or 14:10 GMT (Zulu) and will stay there for an hour or so to see if anyone shows. (If you manage to log on there, don't expect instant response, cause I'm not just sitting there staring at a blank screen, but rather wandering around and checking every 5 or so minutes to see if anyone appears). What Nick did not say is that this site needs a Java enabled Brouser like Netscape and better or MS IE 3 or better. ... And BTW, what is not obvious, is how to type into the chat page: There is a little one line window below the main one. Click on it and type your greetings, then hit 'enter' to see your message go to all participants (if any). Regards Allen W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper VE6CFK RR#1, Swalwell, Alberta Canada T0M 1Y0 Internet:dicka@cuug.ab.ca & allend@internode.net Honey. Bees, & Art ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 21 Dec 1996 06:57:00 GMT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Andy Nachbaur Organization: WILD BEE'S BBS (209) 826-8107 LOS BANOS, CA Subject: Spelling Flames and cyberCulture Shock AD>Quality of thought has no (or very weak, anyhow) correlation with >spelling ability. (Eye hope this is trew -- or eye yam in beg truble >and so is Andie). What do you mean, Andy is a great speller, he uses a spell checker from hell, its the OLd Drone that suffers from fits of bad grammar because of old timers disease and he don't no know more then his friend Ben Franklin when it comes to spelling. If I can read it, it matters not how you spell it, its the thought that counts, and my thought for the day is for everyone to chill out and enjoy the Holiday stress that only comes once a year. Its called the Christmas spirts and can be mixed in your egg nog or cider. ttul Andy- --- ~ QMPro 1.53 ~ http://fly.hiwaay.net/~bparris/Christmas.html ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 21 Dec 1996 11:52:18 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Ralph W. Harrison" Subject: Re: stop it right now Is it possable that you did not know that you have signed on to a high volume news group?????????????????? ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 21 Dec 1996 11:59:33 -0600 Reply-To: bbirkey@interaccess.com Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Barry Birkey Organization: Birkey.Com Subject: Re: Chat room update... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit dvisrael wrote: > I have Netscape. How do I get JAVA? > > Thanks If you have a current version (Mac 3.0, Windows ?) of Netscape, it already has Java as part of the application. It will load it in everytime you launch Netscape. That's it. -Barry -- Barry Birkey West Chicago, Illinois USA bbirkey@interaccess.com http://www.birkey.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 21 Dec 1996 13:16:47 +22324924 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Adam Finkelstein Subject: Listserv vs News In-Reply-To: <961221115218_1620113596@emout01.mail.aol.com> from "Ralph W. Harrison" at Dec 21, 96 11:52:18 am Content-Type: text Ralph W. Harrison, (you), wrote: > >Is it possable that you did not know that you have signed on to a high volume > news group?????????????????? This is a listserv mailing list. The beekeeping newsgroup is sci.agriculture.beekeeping found on Usenet News--something very different than this list. May I suggest anyone having any questions regarding News and machinations of internet use relating to beekeeping, to browse http://sunsite.unc.edu/bees/home.html The Internet apicultural and beekeeping archive. I'll have the new and improved beekeeping FAQ done by 1/97. I promise, promise promise. Adam -- _________________ Adam Finkelstein adamf@vtaix.cc.vt.edu http://sunsite.unc.edu/bees/adamf/home.html ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 21 Dec 1996 11:03:57 -0900 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Tom & Carol Elliott Organization: Home Subject: Re: Okay, okay!! Let's not start this!! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jerry Fries wrote: > > You wont get flamed from me. There must be a religious list some where a > person can use,that would be a good place for religious discussion. > > Jerry Fries I for one never mentioned religion in my post. Only mainstream scientific evidence. With the objections to this thread, any comments should be forwarded directly to me. -- "Test everything. Hold on to the good." (1 Thessalonians 5:21) Tom Elliott Eagle River, Alaska U.S.A. beeman@alaska.net ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 21 Dec 1996 15:38:01 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Brian R Tucker Subject: Losses Anyone Have any major losses to report Yet? ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 22 Dec 1996 11:08:20 +1100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Nick Wallingford Subject: Chat Room: UPDATE... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT To use the chat facility, you need a WWW browser that has Java capability. Both Netscape 3.0 and Internet Explorer 3.0 should be suitable (though several people have had trouble, getting only the 'You need a Java enabled browser' message when they shouldn't have). >From the help screen: "What kind of browser do I need to use paraCHAT? You need to use a web browser that is Java enabled like Netscape 2.0, 3.0 or Microsoft Internet Explorer 3.0. If your browser is not Java aware you wull not see the chat room but get a message." Seems to work best if you let all the various code download completely before you try to use the Connect button. I've put the 'how to' basics at the bottom of the screen. There is also a Help button to more information. I've been using it this morning with one other (Robin from Canada) with no problems at all. I've had a few various lockups, but not sure if it is my own setup or the way the chat is set up. Its been fun setting it up! Chat Page: http://www.wave.co.nz/pages/nickw/chat.htm (\ Nick Wallingford {|||8- home nickw@wave.co.nz (/ work nw1@boppoly.ac.nz NZ Beekeeping http://www.wave.co.nz/pages/nickw/nzbkpg.htm ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 21 Dec 1996 17:18:57 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "(Thomas) (Cornick)" Subject: Re: Losses Monday here in CT was a good day for cleansing flights and I was able to observe ten hives cleaning up everything looks strong at this time . ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 21 Dec 1996 18:29:38 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: dvisrael Subject: Re: Chat Room: UPDATE... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Nick Wallingford wrote: > > To use the chat facility, you need a WWW browser that has Java > capability. Both Netscape 3.0 and Internet Explorer 3.0 should be > suitable (though several people have had trouble, getting only the > Nick, I just sent mail through your bee page then read your latest post. I cannot enable Java. Not enough bites???????? Don > > Its been fun setting it up! > > Chat Page: http://www.wave.co.nz/pages/nickw/chat.htm > > (\ Nick Wallingford > {|||8- home nickw@wave.co.nz > (/ work nw1@boppoly.ac.nz > NZ Beekeeping http://www.wave.co.nz/pages/nickw/nzbkpg.htm ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 22 Dec 1996 12:42:40 +1100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Nick Wallingford Subject: Off topic: Test for Java capable... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT For anyone having trouble with the Bee Chat room, aim your browser at http://www.javasoft.com You should see the page in its 'ordinary' form. Click on the link in the lower left saying "For easier navigation, try the Java version". It is very slow to load, but you *should* see a similar screen if you have a Java enabled browser. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 21 Dec 1996 20:59:10 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Peter Wilson Subject: Re: Losses In-Reply-To: <961221153800_2052823727@emout17.mail.aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII email: pjwilson@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca On Sat, 21 Dec 1996, Brian R Tucker wrote: > Anyone Have any major losses to report Yet? > Isn't it a little early to be doing the taxes!!?? We still have a few days left of 1996. Compliments of the solstice. Peter Wilson Edmonton. AB ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 21 Dec 1996 20:55:59 -0800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Roy Nettlebeck Subject: Re: RE>TM Resistant AFB In-Reply-To: <32B20793.3512@umich.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Fri, 13 Dec 1996, Ted Fischer wrote: > Allen Dick wrote: > >American Foulbrood (AFB) is quietly shaping up -- once again -- to > >be a major beekeeping challenge. That is unless new antibiotics are > >approved in advance of the almost certain spread of mutant strains > >of this old scourge, or unless the spread is controlled by use of > >honey inspection and/or embargos combined with a thorough clean-up at > >the site of current outbreaks. > > This is certainly not an unexpected development, with the widespread > usage of antibiotics. However, your report is the first I've actually > heard of it. Could you give a reference or two about where one can read > up on it, please? > Hello All, The use of antibiotics in a hive of bees , should be kept to a minimum. We need resistant bees and that should always be our goal.The quick fix with antibiotics gets in the way of keeping bees that are resistant to AFB.We have tools and the researchers to do the job right. I sell honey in Seattle to Naturalpathic Doctors and they don't want me to use any antibiotics at all on my bees.I don't use any and have no problem with AFB. If I ran 1000 hives instead of 50 to 80 , I might have a couple of cases , but it would be because of me getting slow with requeening , with good stock. A point for all beekeepers, know your local beekeepers and help them get good stock.We should not be passing AFB back and forth with each other. We have some great bee breeders around the world. I belive natural resistance is the only answer and a beekeeper who really cares to learn , what is new in beekeeping.We are changing with the times.We do know that antibiotics is a short term fix.We have been lucky with TM. It has lasted a long time. Best Regards Roy ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 22 Dec 1996 01:09:41 -0800 Reply-To: alwine@dreamcom.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Al Needham Subject: Nick's Secret Chat Room MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To all those frustrated fellow BEE-L ers who have been trying to get into Nick's Chat Room (where all the big time commercial beekeepers discuss their secret techniques to get triple the yield that we little hobbyists get and discuss the latest stuff on mites)---- I sit here at about almost 1:00 AM burning my last beeswax candle typing this goop. I run Windows 3.11 with Win32 running and Netscape Gold v3.0 Anyway the first time I knocked at Nick's door, I received some sort of message pertinent to a "firewall". I whipped out the last one of those fire sale surplus flame throwers and let that firewall have it full blast....burnt my butt, that's all that happened. Well...enough of that spurious humor. I scoured Netscape's home site and from what page I can't recall I think I found out the reason why I can't get in. Oh, I forgot to tell you that in later attempts to get in that Chat Room, I received messages that told me my "java was not enabled". Checking my General Preferences in Netscape, it appears to me that Java is enabled. To continue....I quote the following in part: " Referring to the inability to see any movement in Java Web Sites.... ...Java does not work in 16 bit Netscape....Is it possible to run the 32 bit on a Win 3.1 machine (perhaps with Win32 running?)......... Response> There are various animations floating around..Server push, Java Script and animated GIF are all supported by 16 bit Netscape.........>Java is not<....From Chuck." So Nick et al....maybe this is the reason some of us are having troubles getting in your chat room. Any real computer geeks/gurus amongst us that this makes sense to? Are you having that Chili for breakfast too Allen? It sure smells good. (Side joke) :) Al -- * Have A Happy And Relaxing Holiday Season * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Al Needham,Scituate,MA,USA ** alwine@dreamcom.net * * >"The HoneyBee"-An Educational Software Program V1.0< * * Available from Sweden at: Http://www.kuai.se/~beeman/ * * Visit this site for close-up photos of Honey Bees at * * work and see how Honey is processed. * * " Version 2.0 coming in '97'.....stay tuned in! " * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 22 Dec 1996 03:03:06 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Brian Gant <106213.3313@compuserve.com> Subject: Re: Two Queens.... in 1980 Ron Brown published a booklet called "A simple two-queen system". This should be available from English bee-book suppliers such as BEE Books New and Old (UK tel 01823 698781) or Northern Bee Books who will take payment in non-UK currency and can be contacted at ruxbury@delphi.com The essential feature is to run two queens so as to get lots of workers ready for the main flow. Brian Gant ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 22 Dec 1996 09:39:44 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Michael L. Wallace" Subject: Re: Propolis info on the Net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 08:56 12/15/96 -0500, you wrote: >---------------------- Information from the mail header ----------------------- >Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology >Poster: Tom Allen >Subject: Re: Propolis info on the Net >------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > >If you have typed infor that you want to move to the net use a scanner and >broadcast the scanned document. I use theHP Scan Jet 4s which does to job >very well indeed. > Hello, Tom, Unfortunately I don't have a scanner to scan with. I'm not a rich man, like some people. ;) I am trying to work on an alternative, however, for next time. Thanks for the suggestion, though, and maybe I'll be rich enough, one day, to buy a scanner. Cheers, Mike Wallace Sar Shalom Apiary McKinney, Texas USA "God bless you!" ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 22 Dec 1996 09:39:52 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Michael L. Wallace" Subject: Propolis info postage costs Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hello, Everyone, Sorry that it's taken me so long to reply, but my lack of time, the time of year and a not-so-good Net provider makes it difficult for me to respond quickly. To clarify, for all, the cost of the propolis document; the document itself costs $1.00 US. As far as postage goes, for those in the US it's $0.55, for those in Canada postage is $0.95 US, and for all other folks in other countries it will cost you $2.20 US. If these costs are not a factor for you, you may send a check or money order to 150 Dorothy Drive, McKinney, Texas 75069. If you absolutely can't pay the costs, unfortunately, you'll have to wait until I can figure out how to possibly get it on the Net. However, it may take a while. Everyone have a good holiday season! Cheers, Mike Wallace Sar Shalom Apiary McKinney, Texas USA "God bless you!" ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 22 Dec 1996 09:46:40 -0800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Roy Nettlebeck Subject: Re: beeswax In-Reply-To: <199612130833.DAA19592@hitchhike.cybertours.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Sun, 15 Dec 1996, MIDNITEBEE wrote: > http://www.cybertours.com/~midnitebee/ > > Oh Boy! Here I go again! I got another "brilliant" idea.I am constantly > asked by local candle stores and private citizens,if I have any > beeswax.Since I do not,I would like to know if there are any beekeepers in > North America, who would send me by e-mail,their price list? I would > include their names on my web page. Is this a good idea? It sounds good to me but I have no idea if there are any rules or guidlines that control posting the info. > P.S. I seem to have this problem about thinking to much.Can't wait for > Spring to arrive.It's cold up here,snow is on the ground,bees are huddled > in their houses,I miss the action of the bee yards,I must"bee"coming > addictive to beekeeping. Maybe a new hobby? I don't think so!! > Wishing all a glorious Holiday and a fabulous New Year. > Your addicted to beekeeping. I know the feeling.Here in western Washington USA we get a few good days for the bees to fly in the winter.About a week ago , I looked out the kitchen window and the sun was shining and the bees were flying. Boy what a rush. I just had to stick my nose into a couple of hives. They were looking good. After last year with Varroa + Virus ,I was very glad to see good clusters in the hives.I have 25 hives out in my back yard so I have some bees to look at on good days at home. I Wish Everyone a Happy Holiday. Roy ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 22 Dec 1996 16:14:17 -0800 Reply-To: alwine@dreamcom.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Al Needham Subject: Java Problems MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This is for those of you who are using Netscape and are experience problems accessing Nick's chat room. Specifically you are getting a message about "java not enabled" and will not let you in. I refer to a prior message concerning some info I found on Netscape Web pages--i.e, If you are running a 16 bit system like myself - even with Windows 3.11 "and" Win 32 running, you *cannot enable java*. I just proved it via Dr. Pedro trying to help me thru private e-mail. I indeed found the right place "Network Preferences" the "Languages Page". There sits in about the upper left corner two blocks. The top block is for enabling java. The block beneath it is for enabling java script. The enable java block is "grayed out"-meaning you cannot "check it" and neither can you "uncheck it". You do have the option to "check" or "uncheck" the java script button underneath it. So...it seems that it is true that it is not possible to enable java running a 16 bit system. Talk about not so subtle pressure from Bill Gates and company. Lord or whatever help us all if he were to become interested in beekeeping! I will probably continue to resist upgarding to WIN 95 on general principals until I am operating in the dark all by my lonesome self! :). In conclusion, perhaps this information may help relieve the frustration of some of you who were having the same trouble entering Nick's Chat Room. Al -- * Have A Happy And Relaxing Holiday Season * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Al Needham,Scituate,MA,USA ** alwine@dreamcom.net * * >"The HoneyBee"-An Educational Software Program V1.0< * * Available from Sweden at: Http://www.kuai.se/~beeman/ * * Visit this site for close-up photos of Honey Bees at * * work and see how Honey is processed. * * " Version 2.0 coming in '97'.....stay tuned in! " * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 22 Dec 1996 16:02:22 -0600 Reply-To: dvisrael@earthlink.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Donald V Israel Subject: Re: Off topic: Test for Java capable... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Nick Wallingford wrote: > > For anyone having trouble with the Bee Chat room, aim your browser at > > http://www.javasoft.com > > You should see the page in its 'ordinary' form. Click on the link in > the lower left saying "For easier navigation, try the Java version". > It is very slow to load, but you *should* see a similar screen if you > have a Java enabled browser. Well, thanks. I've tried everything. Have been told netscape 3.0 will Java enable but on my screen it is grayed out and will not enable. My son is sending instructions for me to down load some free microsoft programs that will work. So I'll be there soon. A Bee Friend ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 22 Dec 1996 17:28:19 -0800 Reply-To: alwine@dreamcom.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Al Needham Subject: Re: "Rich Man" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Mike: Sheesh..given the heat flying about on BEE-L, you might darw a comment or two with your "rich man" comment. I too would *love* a scanner, but I am retired and of limited funds. I might luck out soon as I am trying to work a swap deal with one of my son's friends - they are in the 15-16 yr old age group. However, you know what you might want to check out is the Online Auction Web Site - susbcribe to it and check out how it works and watch how it operates. You can find it at Http://www.online.com Just maybe, you might discover a good buy! Hang in there - healthy bees is worth more than coins in hand! Al -- * Have A Happy And Relaxing Holiday Season * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Al Needham,Scituate,MA,USA ** alwine@dreamcom.net * * >"The HoneyBee"-An Educational Software Program V1.0< * * Available from Sweden at: Http://www.kuai.se/~beeman/ * * Visit this site for close-up photos of Honey Bees at * * work and see how Honey is processed. * * " Version 2.0 coming in '97'.....stay tuned in! " * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Dec 1996 10:05:13 +1000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Chris Allen Subject: Re: Old insects Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >DW>Why is it that the direct ancestors of insects found in resin 42 milion > >years old, will today die out in large numbers from the attack of a Varroa > >mite of equal pedigree. Surely in all that time similar threats have been > >dealt with successfully? Varroa was not found on Apis Mellifera 42,000,000 years ago or even 100 years ago. Varroa is a natural pathogen of Apis Cerana (AKA the Asian Honey Bee). This bee is a completely different species. The adults are smaller than a. mellifera and the colonies are also smaller (never big enough to fill more than 2 small boxes). The honey yield from this species is also small. Among other things this species HAS evolved to tolerate Varroa. The bees simply brush them off with a highly developed grooming technique. For this species Varroa is just a minor nuisance. Problems for modern beekeepers began about 40 years ago. At that time, beekeepers in some parts of Asia tried to use a. mellifera in instead of a. cerana. They hoped to get a better yield of honey from a. mellifera. It appears that varroa jumped species at this point from a. cerana to a. mellifera. As a. mellifera had never been exposed to varroa before, they have no effective defense and suffer badly for it. It is likely that no one was aware of the problem at the time and so it was allowed to spread unchecked through out Asia and Europe. In addition, some cretins kindly shipped it over the water to the UK and mainland America (North & South?). I believe it has not yet arrived in Africa. I know it has not reached Australia, New Zealand or Hawaii. Each of these 3 places are anxious to keep it out which is why they get nervous when other people try too import bees. Regards Chris Allen ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 22 Dec 1996 18:22:27 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jinnah Edun Subject: BIRDS Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" DOES ANYONE OUT THERE KNOW WHAT I CAN DO? I HAD TWO BIRDS, AND THE FEMALE LAID 3 EGGS, SHE THEN DIED AND KNOW THE MALE IS TAKING CARE OF THEM. HE IS DOING PRETTY WELL, IS THERE ANY WAY THAT I COULD HELP HIM, OR MAKE IT EASIER ON HIM TO BRING THEM UP? CHEEKO ALI ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Dec 1996 11:39:20 +1200 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Cliff Van Eaton Subject: Bacterial Resistence -- How They Do It Without "Doing It" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-7 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Several days ago, someone on BEE-L asked the question =22how do bacteria develop resistance to antibiotics if they don=27t breed through sexual reproduction?=22 The answer given at the time was =22through the process = of mutation=22. I=27m certainly no molecular biologist, but I would like to share with BEE-L readers an article written by one of my colleagues which explains how bacteria actually develop resistance. It seems they do it through the process of =22conjugation=22, or the sharing of DNA in plasmids. =20 The article was written in relation to trials being conducted in New Zealand on the antibacterial properties of honey (ie, antibacterial compents inherent in honey, not antibiotics added to the honey) -- BACTERIAL RESISTENCE AND HONEY The development of antibiotic resistance by bacteria is a major concern to world health. The antibacterial properties of honey are now being investigated because honey may give us another weapon in fighting bacteria which have become resistant to man-made antibiotics. Some floral sources of honey have been able to inhibit the growth of some of the most concerning resistant bacteria under strict laboratory trials. What causes bacteria to become resistant to antibiotics? =20 Within some bacteria are small circular DNA strands known as plasmids.=20 These are simply two small complementary DNA strands in a circle. Each of these circles contain a few thousand molecules of DNA material known as bases. These bases combine together to form DNA strands in such a way that they can act like a =A1blue print=A2 for the formation of = proteins that can have important functions in the bacteria. =20 This information is contained in a unit known as a gene. A gene may carry information for the inactivation of an antibiotic drug. There can be a number of different genes in a plasmid, all forming proteins that can inactivate antibiotics. Plasmids are found in the bacterium separate to that of the bacterium=A2s main DNA chromosome. A chromosome is the term for the DNA when it is packed away within the bacterium. Plasmids, on the other hand, are not always necessary for the bacterium=A2s survival. But the plasmid can be responsible for inactivation of an antibiotic by blocking the mechanism of the antibiotic. The blocking is undertaken by a protein formed in the bacterium as a result of the information contained in a gene on the plasmid=A2s DNA complex. This information can be passed on from one bacterium to another in a process known as =A1conjugation=A2. This is when two bacteria come = together and a single DNA strand from the plasmid=A2s duplex separates and moves though to the reciprocating bacterium. Once in the hosting bacterial cell, both single strands are matched up by new DNA molecules that complement the DNA bases. The plasmid becomes once again a double-stranded DNA circle. This sharing of information is very important to the survival of bacteria and is the reason medical people are so concerned about the future of antibiotics. Whole wards in hospitals have been quarantined as a result of resistant bacterial outbreaks. Without a way to fight these bacteria people can suffer serious infections and even die. Honey trials conducted under very strict controls at the Waikato Hospital have shown that honey of differing floral sources can have an effect on resistant strains of bacteria. In a number of cases the effect has been total inhibition of growth. This is quite exciting since it promotes possible future reasons to use some honeys as wound dressings. Cases have already been reported were the use of honey has healed wounds which have not responded to other conventional treatments. Honey has been used in medical situations for centuries. However, with good medical research we may see it accepted by even the most critical members of medical community. =5BArticle written by James Driscoll, Apicultural Advisory Officer, Palmerston North=5D ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 22 Dec 1996 18:30:13 -0700 Reply-To: cronk@ibm.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Harry Cron k Subject: Re: BIRDS MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jinnah: Just keep food and water available. Harry ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 22 Dec 1996 20:54:27 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jinnah Edun Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Does anyone know what i can do? I have to birds, budgies, and the female laid 3 eggs, she then died and now the male is taking care of them. He is doing pretty well, is there any way that i could help him, or make it easier on him to bring them up? CHEEKO ALI ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 22 Dec 1996 21:09:07 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jinnah Edun Subject: Re: Outdated paradigm? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 05:12 PM 12/20/96 -1000, you wrote: >Evolution is a population process (change in the frequencies of genes >over time within a population). The fact that we can observe such >processes as the development of resistance to antibiotics in bacteria, or >to insecticides in insects, shows clearly that evolution does occur. > >Tom Culliney >Hawaii Dept. of Agriculture >culliney@elele.peacesat.hawaii.edu > > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Dec 1996 13:53:51 +1000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Chris Allen Subject: Filtering e-mail Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >>Some one else said could also filter messages by sender's name. >Please explain filter messages. What benefit can I get from this Filtering is a very handy feature. Any good e-mail package should have it but may use a different term for it. I use Eudora-Pro so I will describe it as used by that package. All e-mail is stored in a "mail box". Essentially a mail box is a list of e-mail messages which displays who sent (or received) the e-mail, when it was sent and its subject header (and other useful information). Users will use this list to select an e-mail message for processing. By default there are 3 Mail boxes, "In" e-mail received, "Out" for e-mail sent, and trash for e-mail deleted (you can restore them from here before it is too late) Users can create additional mail boxes and transfer e-mail messages to the mail boxes. Typically, you might do this to segregate e-mail from a variety of sources eg 1) friends & relations 2) colleagues at work 3) mailing lists etc You could read each message as it comes in, and then manually transfer it to the appropriate mail boxes. However many people believe this method to be a pain in the fundamental orifice. To make life simple I can create a filter and let the email package transfer the messages for me as soon as they arrive. In my case, I created the mail box "BEE-L" and a filter that will transfer all incoming messages to that mail box if it addressed to: BEE-L None of the e-mail from this list is addressed to me directly. It is all addressed To: "Multiple recipients of list BEE-L " I could also filter messages by its 1) author's name 2) subject 3) a particular text in the main body 4) combination of the above. If you subscribe to other lists as well as this one then filtering will be a very useful tool to have. If you e-mail cannot do it the don't waste time and get one that does. Any self respecting e-mail package should have it. Previous messages on this list has named several packages that will do it. Many of them are free ware/share ware. If you don't know where to find, one ask your ISP or use your favorite search engine on the WWW. Regards Chris Allen ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 22 Dec 1996 22:34:23 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jean-Pierre Chapleau Subject: IPM aproach to AFB MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The discussion on AFB and antibiotics is very interesting but I think = that it should be brought a step further. I sure recognize that antibiotics have been useful so far in the control = of AFB, mostly in North America. But it would be amazing if the trend = observed with most bacteria developing to various antibiotics would not = extend sooner or later to the bacteria causing AFB. I think from that from now on, it would be safer start designing new = ways of controlling the disease (in North America). Other beekeeping = communities around the world have done so. I do not mean that OTC should = not be used anymore but I think that it should be used as the only mean = of control. My point is that antibiotics are not the only possible = approach to the problem. It is not a choice between treating with = antibiotics and doing nothing (or burning). What we need is an INTEGRATED PEST MANAGEMENT approach. This is what I = have been working on since a few years within my own apiary. I run 800 = colonies and I benefit from a small government grant for that = experimental approach. This approach involves the following elements : - the use of a preventive methods such as the early detection of = diseased colonies by inspecting the brood nests (at least of week or non = producing colonies)=20 - minimizing the movement of brood frames between colonies. ( I do not = equalize my colonies.) - the inclusion of the hygienic behavior test in my breeding program (I = am a queen breeder) - the immediate transfer of diseased colonies on clean equipment = (undrawn plastic frames) - the sterilization of the contaminated hives parts with hot paraffin = (wood parts) or a chlorinated water solution (for scraped plastic = frames). I am more than half way done with the replacement of my old = wooden frames with plastic frames that are much easier to sterilize. = This is part of the experimental approach. I would like to hear from people who have a certain experience with the = use of chlorine for sterilizing bee equipment. Jean-Pierre CHAPLEAU chapleau@interlinx.qc.ca 1282, rang 8, St-Adrien (QC) Canada J0A 1C0 (819) 828-3396; fax: (819) 828-0357 ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 22 Dec 1996 23:52:12 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Stan Sandler Subject: Re: Bacterial Resistence -- How They Do It Without "Doing It" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Cliff forwarded an article which included these statements: > Some >floral sources of honey have been able to inhibit the growth of some of >the most concerning resistant bacteria under strict laboratory trials. and >Honey trials conducted under very strict controls at the Waikato >Hospital have shown that honey of differing floral sources can have an >effect on resistant strains of bacteria. In addition I have looked at information on honey's antibacterial properties either on Nick's web pages or linked from Nick's pages (it may have also been from Waikato). My question is this: My "Hive and Honeybee" (1962 edition) talks about this antibacterial property as being caused by some substance found in very tiny amounts called "inhibine". Has this theory been discarded? Is the antibacterial property only related to the floral source (as the above quoted statements would imply) or is there something that the bee, herself, is adding or changing? Season's Greetings Stan ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 22 Dec 1996 23:52:16 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Stan Sandler Subject: solstice and bees Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" The December solstice has just passed and for those of us in the northern hemisphere the days are going to start getting longer. Just when the increased day length is going to be getting noticeable to us, in theory, the queen will start laying a very small patch of new brood. I say, in theory, because I believe there is a clause in the contract I have with my girls that says management is not allowed to open them up and peek in January and February (I think its in the Canadian contract anyway :-) Being a benevolent boss I have never violated it. I assume that the cue is increasing day length (certainly can't be temperature here), but I really don't know, and the way some people pack up their bees with tarpaper and insulation they don't get a whole lot of "light" coming in. Somebody recently posted a historical reference to people wintering bees under sods in New Zealand and here in Prince Edward Island people historicly wintered bees in cellars. Both places don't have much in the way of light cues. So I wonder, is it light or do the bees have a biological clock? I am Stan , and glad my bees are running on Carniolan time. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Dec 1996 23:47:46 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: MIDNITEBEE Subject: new links MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit http://www.cybertours.com/~midnitebee/ I have added two new links,pertaining to beeswax,and a listing for bee inspectors,in the USA and Canada. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Dec 1996 00:09:00 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Eric J McDaniel Subject: Re: BIRDS Jinnah, I may be able to help. There are a few things I need to know : How old are the eggs? When did incubation start? (Normal incubation is about 18 days) Have the pair successfully breed and raised young before? Generally, the hen does most of the work during incubation. The male may feed his mate if necessary,or he may sit on the eggs for the few minutes she takes to leave the nesting box to feed herself. Most of his work comes when the chicks hatch. At this time, both parents feed the young. This is where your male will have a problem. If all three eggs hatch, he'll have to do all the feeding by himself. For now, just make sure he has plenty of fresh food and water. Also keep stress down to a minimum. The loss of a mate was traumatic enough. Please contact me at ericsaviary@juno.com and I will try to help you out . Sincerely, Eric McDaniel ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Dec 1996 16:28:30 +1000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Chris Allen Subject: Re: BIRDS Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 12:09 AM 23/12/96 EST, you wrote: >Jinnah, >I may be able to help. >There are a few things I need to know : > How old are the eggs? > When did incubation start? (Normal incubation is about 18 days) > Have the pair successfully breed and raised young before? > >Sincerely, >Eric McDaniel You blokes are obviously enjouy yourselves and I don't want to get in your way BUT I think you may have a few crossed wires. This list is normally about beekping bees rather than raising birds. Perhaps you have "dialed the wrong number" Regards Chris Allen ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Dec 1996 00:41:57 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Gerry Visel Subject: Top Bar Hives And Bears Just had another thought on TBHs: If they are suspended rather than supported on the ground, they could be hoisted up high enough to be impervious to bears... Hope you all have peaceful and joyous holidays! Gerry and the other Visels at Visel7@juno.com Winnebago, Illinois, USA ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Dec 1996 09:07:13 GMT+2 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: MIKE ALLSOPP Organization: N.I.P.B VREDENBURG Subject: Re: Top Bar Hives And Bears Hi All > Just had another thought on TBHs: > > If they are suspended rather than supported on the ground, they could be > hoisted up high enough to be impervious to bears... > The major reason for elevating top bar hives ( and even more so, log hives) in Africa is to provide them with some degree of protection from predators - mostly from the renowned ratel or honey badger. Sure to be of the same value with bears. Mike Allsopp Mike Allsopp tel (27)(21) 887-4690 Honeybee Research Section fax (27)(21) 883-3285 Plant Protection Research Institute pmail plant3/vredma Agricultural Research Council email vredma@plant3.agric.za P/Bag X5017 Stellenbosch 7599 South Africa ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Dec 1996 21:10:41 +1100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Nick Wallingford Subject: Re: Bacterial Resistence -- How They Do It Without "Doing I MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT I hesitate to speak here! Dr Molan who does this work is only an hour or so from me, and could well knock on my door to tell me what a hash I've made of it! I'm not at all sure about inhibine. Peter has found that most/all honeys have some amount of hydrogen peroxide activity, which can account for some of the antibiotic levels. But there is another factor as well, with manuka for instance something about 27 times as much as the hydrogen peroxide could account for. While manuka has it, there is always the possibilities that other honeys may be found as well (amazing amount of variability between the sources). Anyone seriously interested in honey as a healing agent for wounds, etc, should go see some of Dr Molan's work at http://quasar.sci.waikato.ac.nz/Subjects/Biology/Honey/honey_page.html (\ Nick Wallingford {|||8- home nickw@wave.co.nz (/ work nw1@boppoly.ac.nz NZ Beekeeping http://www.wave.co.nz/pages/nickw/nzbkpg.htm ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 22 Dec 1996 23:35:33 -0900 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Tom Elliott Subject: Re: Bacterial Resistence -- How They Do It Without "Doing It" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-7 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In other words they do have occasional sexual reproduction ---------- From: Cliff Van Eaton To: Multiple recipients of list BEE-L Subject: Bacterial Resistence -- How They Do It Without "Doing It" Date: Sunday, December 22, 1996 2:39 PM Several days ago, someone on BEE-L asked the question "how do bacteria develop resistance to antibiotics if they don't breed through sexual reproduction?" The answer given at the time was "through the process of mutation". I'm certainly no molecular biologist, but I would like to share with BEE-L readers an article written by one of my colleagues which explains how bacteria actually develop resistance. It seems they do it through the process of "conjugation", or the sharing of DNA in plasmids. The article was written in relation to trials being conducted in New Zealand on the antibacterial properties of honey (ie, antibacterial compents inherent in honey, not antibiotics added to the honey) -- BACTERIAL RESISTENCE AND HONEY The development of antibiotic resistance by bacteria is a major concern to world health. The antibacterial properties of honey are now being investigated because honey may give us another weapon in fighting bacteria which have become resistant to man-made antibiotics. Some floral sources of honey have been able to inhibit the growth of some of the most concerning resistant bacteria under strict laboratory trials. What causes bacteria to become resistant to antibiotics? Within some bacteria are small circular DNA strands known as plasmids. These are simply two small complementary DNA strands in a circle. Each of these circles contain a few thousand molecules of DNA material known as bases. These bases combine together to form DNA strands in such a way that they can act like a ?blue print? for the formation of proteins that can have important functions in the bacteria. This information is contained in a unit known as a gene. A gene may carry information for the inactivation of an antibiotic drug. There can be a number of different genes in a plasmid, all forming proteins that can inactivate antibiotics. Plasmids are found in the bacterium separate to that of the bacterium?s main DNA chromosome. A chromosome is the term for the DNA when it is packed away within the bacterium. Plasmids, on the other hand, are not always necessary for the bacterium?s survival. But the plasmid can be responsible for inactivation of an antibiotic by blocking the mechanism of the antibiotic. The blocking is undertaken by a protein formed in the bacterium as a result of the information contained in a gene on the plasmid?s DNA complex. This information can be passed on from one bacterium to another in a process known as ?conjugation?. This is when two bacteria come together and a single DNA strand from the plasmid?s duplex separates and moves though to the reciprocating bacterium. Once in the hosting bacterial cell, both single strands are matched up by new DNA molecules that complement the DNA bases. The plasmid becomes once again a double-stranded DNA circle. This sharing of information is very important to the survival of bacteria and is the reason medical people are so concerned about the future of antibiotics. Whole wards in hospitals have been quarantined as a result of resistant bacterial outbreaks. Without a way to fight these bacteria people can suffer serious infections and even die. Honey trials conducted under very strict controls at the Waikato Hospital have shown that honey of differing floral sources can have an effect on resistant strains of bacteria. In a number of cases the effect has been total inhibition of growth. This is quite exciting since it promotes possible future reasons to use some honeys as wound dressings. Cases have already been reported were the use of honey has healed wounds which have not responded to other conventional treatments. Honey has been used in medical situations for centuries. However, with good medical research we may see it accepted by even the most critical members of medical community. [Article written by James Driscoll, Apicultural Advisory Officer, Palmerston North] ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Dec 1996 05:52:40 +0000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Dennis A. Meeks" Subject: Re: Filtering e-mail MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT There is an email program available on the web free of charge that provides mail filtering. It is called Pegasus Mail and seems to be fully functional and easy to use, and it even includes a spell checker. I have also tried Eudora Pro and find it very good, but it will cost you. Eudora Lite is free, but does not provide filtering of e-mail. What a time saver after nearly a year of moving each item into appropriate boxes one file at a time. ...and they say nothing in life is free. Best wishes to all during the Holiday Season! Dennis Meeks (Bee Keeper and Postal Clerk) dameeks@noblecan.org ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Dec 1996 22:28:53 +1000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Chris Allen Subject: Re: Filtering e-mail Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 05:52 23/12/96 +0000, you wrote: >There is an email program available on the web free of charge that >provides mail filtering. It is called Pegasus Mail .... FGS! WHERE?? Regards Chris Allen ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 20 Dec 1996 10:58:06 -0500 Reply-To: dronebee@norfolk.infi.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Dr. Pedro Rodriguez" Organization: InfiNet Subject: Re: Old insects MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit bee-l@cnsibm.albany.edu wrote: > > Dear Pedro > > I call your bluff, your spelling is poor and your message is a > spoof! > > Joe Hemmens > > > Synpathy for those who still think that Varroa is harmless is > > forcing me to disclose a statement which I have been maintaining > > secrete for several months! I strongly disagree. Varroa is capable > > of causing catastrophic losses to beekeepers. I have been performing > > SCIENTIFIC research with honeybee mites for 13 years, (I started in > > Europe). After many trials and tribulations through massive losses > > of colonies every year to the little red devil, Mr. Varroa, I will > > soon reveal the "fruits" of my research, possibly at the 54th Annual > > Convention of the American Federation of Beekeepers in Norfolk, > > Virginia (USA). I can prove, that untreated, Varroa decimates and > > devastates entire otherwise healthy colonies in brief periods of > > time. I also can prove that I have developed a: > > NON-CHEMICAL, BEE-FRIENDLY, NON CONTAMINATING, > > ENVIRONMENTAL-FRIENDLY, FOOD-FRIENDLY and very ECONOMIC method to > > eliminate Mr. Varroa from our beehives. My methodology does not > > employ any of the known chemicals or other medicaments presently in > > use! Rejoice beekeepers! > > My most sincere apologies for the spelling errors. No excuse for the errors in the use of Her Royal Majesty's vernacular! On my research: Christopher Columbus, Gallileo, Pasteur, Madame Curie and many others who dared challenge the "establishment" were considered many things but sane! Although I am not equating myself with such scientific luminaries, I will prove that, yes, there is a shinning star in heaven for those of us who work hard in search of solutions for problems that seem to have none. Joe, your challenge is well taken. I will ask you to buy me a cup of coffee in fair compensation for your challenge when you and the rest of the world start enjoying the fruits of my hard (self financed!) research! I have feared that many will challenge my work, because it stands alone in a very competitive field. Come to Norfolk, Virginia (USA) to the 54th AFB Convention so that you may have the priviledge of being among the first to listen to me when I unveil (pardon the pun) the results of my honeybee research! ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 20 Dec 1996 14:30:20 -0500 Reply-To: dronebee@norfolk.infi.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Dr. Pedro Rodriguez" Organization: InfiNet Subject: Re: Undelivered mail MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit RFC822 mailer (LMail release 1.2c/1.8c) wrote: > > An error was detected while processing the enclosed message. A list of > the affected recipients follows. This list is in a special format that > allows software like LISTSERV to automatically take action on incorrect > addresses; you can safely ignore the numeric codes. > > --> Error description: > Error-For: BEE-1@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU > Alias: BEE-1@ALBNYVM1.BITNET > Alias: BEE-1@UACSC2.ALBANY.EDU > Alias: BEE-1@ALBANY.BITNET > Alias: BEE-1@ALBANY.EDU > Alias: BEE-1@ALBANY.ALBANY.EDU > Error-Code: 3 > Error-Text: No such local user. ***** Error Msg Test ***** > > Error-End: One error reported. > > ------------------------- Rejected message (36 lines) ------------------------- > Received: from mh004.infi.net by CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU (IBM VM SMTP V2R2) with TCP; > Fri, 20 Dec 96 14:27:31 EST > Received: from pedro by mh004.infi.net with SMTP > (Infinet-S-3.3) id OAA20090; Fri, 20 Dec 1996 14:29:57 -0500 (EST) > Message-ID: <32BAE87C.6F61@norfolk.infi.net> > Date: Fri, 20 Dec 1996 14:26:52 -0500 > From: "Dr. Pedro Rodriguez" > Reply-To: dronebee@norfolk.infi.net > Organization: InfiNet > X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) > MIME-Version: 1.0 > To: bee-1@cnsibm.albany.edu > Subject: Re: Ed Kear/Antibiotics and Honeybees > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > Dear Ed: > Just a line to add to your comments about the use of antibiotics for > honeybees. There is nothing wrong with the practice and sometimes > antibiotics are necessary just like any other aspect of animal or > human medicine. My complaint lies in lack of the "proper use of such > medicaments." And I cite your example about the use of TM in vegetable > oil (of any fat or oil). It promotes resistant build-up of bacteria. > When resistance is developed, that particular antibiotic becomes > useless for that purpose. > There is no sense in "beating a dead horse" and this subject son will > become that! However, it is very significant especially for beginners > who are bound to trust everything they read or told by "experts" on > how to handle their honeybees. Use common sense and read the > instructions on the labels of the packages. Those are pretty good guide > lines to follow! Behaving like uncle "scroogies" will only result in > losses, disappointment and worse, fostering of resistant strains of > germs. Who needs them? > Merry X-mas Joe and happy honeybee keeping in the coming new year! > Sincerely. > DR. PEDRO P. RODRIGUEZ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 20 Dec 1996 17:52:53 -0500 Reply-To: dronebee@norfolk.infi.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Dr. Pedro Rodriguez" Organization: InfiNet Subject: Re: Returned mail: Host unknown (Name server: cnsibm.albany.com: host not found) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mail Delivery Subsystem wrote: > > The original message was received at Fri, 20 Dec 1996 17:53:52 -0500 (EST) > from pa5dsp4.orf.infi.net [205.219.239.129] > > ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors ----- > > > ----- Transcript of session follows ----- > 550 ... Host unknown (Name server: cnsibm.albany.com: host not found) > > ----- Original message follows ----- > > Received: from pedro by mh004.infi.net with SMTP > (Infinet-S-3.3) id RAA27219; Fri, 20 Dec 1996 17:53:52 -0500 (EST) > Return-Path: dronebee@norfolk.infi.net > Message-ID: <32BB1844.1538@norfolk.infi.net> > Date: Fri, 20 Dec 1996 17:50:44 -0500 > From: "Dr. Pedro Rodriguez" > Reply-To: dronebee@norfolk.infi.net > Organization: InfiNet > X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) > MIME-Version: 1.0 > To: Bee-L@cnsibm.albany.com > Subject: enough said > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > Being new at Bee-L I lack the knowledge to quote snipplets from the > entire message, thus I shall address this post to the matrix hoping that > perhaps I may get to all in the listing w/o commiting the sin of being > wasteful (ooops, I said sin!). > I think that Bee-L is a magnificent forum for beekeepers, hence I am > proud of having been accepted to this mailing list. May I suggest that > participants limit their input to honeybee-related subjects. I am a > fervent, faithful religious person. But I go to church to listen to the > word. Gratituous preaching is not my prefered cup of tea! Enough said! > Sincerely. > Dr. Pedro P. Rodriguez ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 22 Dec 1996 15:16:09 -0500 Reply-To: dronebee@norfolk.infi.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Dr. Pedro Rodriguez" Organization: InfiNet Subject: Re: Propolis info postage costs MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit bee-l@cnsibm.albany.edu wrote: > > Hello, Everyone, > > Sorry that it's taken me so long to reply, but my lack of time, the time of > year and a not-so-good Net provider makes it difficult for me to respond > quickly. > > To clarify, for all, the cost of the propolis document; the document itself > costs $1.00 US. As far as postage goes, for those in the US it's $0.55, for > those in Canada postage is $0.95 US, and for all other folks in other > countries it will cost you $2.20 US. > > If these costs are not a factor for you, you may send a check or money order > to 150 Dorothy Drive, McKinney, Texas 75069. > > If you absolutely can't pay the costs, unfortunately, you'll have to wait > until I can figure out how to possibly get it on the Net. However, it may > take a while. > > Everyone have a good holiday season! > > Cheers, > > Mike Wallace > Sar Shalom Apiary > McKinney, Texas USA > "God bless you!" Dear Mike: If time is what you don't have, send the document to me (mailing address below) and I'll type it and send it to Bee-L which in turn will send it to all Bee-L subscribers. If that is agreable with you, here is my postal address: Dr. Pedro P. Rodriguez 2133 Wolfsnare Road Virginia Beach, Virginia 23454 Best of wishes for the holiday season. Pedro ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 22 Dec 1996 18:45:39 -0500 Reply-To: dronebee@norfolk.infi.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Dr. Pedro Rodriguez" Organization: InfiNet Subject: Re: BIRDS MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit bee-l@cnsibm.albany.edu wrote: > > DOES ANYONE OUT THERE KNOW WHAT I CAN DO? I HAD TWO BIRDS, AND THE FEMALE > LAID 3 EGGS, SHE THEN DIED AND KNOW THE MALE IS TAKING CARE OF THEM. HE IS > DOING PRETTY WELL, IS THERE ANY WAY THAT I COULD HELP HIM, OR MAKE IT EASIER > ON HIM TO BRING THEM UP? > > CHEEKO ALI Dear Mr. Cheeko: Male birds(with rare exceptinons) do participate in the upbringing of their broods. In fact, in some cases only the males take care of harvesting food for the brood while the female is a virtual captive in the nest (ex.: some hornbills) On the other hand, some birds are very finicky about their nests and brood; if disturved they may abandon their eggs and quit incubating them. Since you did not mention what kind of birds you have, I can not tell you if yours will. But since yours seems to be doing well, your best bet is to make sure that your bird has plenty of food and water available so tht he does not have to stay way from his nest too long (he wont anyway!) to make sure that he stays in good health. Good luck with your "bird watching" and Happy Holidays. P.S.: Please let me know what happens in the end. Dr. Pedro Rodriguez ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 22 Dec 1996 19:35:48 -0500 Reply-To: dronebee@norfolk.infi.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Dr. Pedro Rodriguez" Organization: InfiNet Subject: bacterial reproduction MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I would like to congratulate the contributor of the article written by Mr. James Driscoll, Apicultural Advisory Officer, Palmerston North). This is the kind of contributions that I hope will continue to be aired through this forum! This type of contribution will not only enrich our knowledge "bank" but also make Bee-L a pleasurable meeting place! I would like to add a couple of sentences on the subject of bacterial reproduction to assist those beekeepers who may not have studied bacteriology. Bacteria reproduce NOT by sexual contact, but rather by a complex process known as mitosis (without complicating the explanation) the contents of the nucleus form strands. The strands split lengthwise in exact equal halves. These halves then break into segments known as chromosomes. These segments come together in pairs and regroup in two equal sets, hence two new cells. The terrible thing about bacterial reproduction (putting it bluntly) is that germs reproduce in progression: 2,4,8,16,32,64 - - - - nth. I hope to have helped to clarify this area for my fellow beekeepers who have not had the benefit of having studied cell mutiplication. (Ref. Webster's Universal Dictionary, 1988, p1152). HAPPY HOLIDAYS ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 22 Dec 1996 18:34:17 -0500 Reply-To: dronebee@norfolk.infi.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Dr. Pedro Rodriguez" Organization: InfiNet Subject: Re: Old insects MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit bee-l@cnsibm.albany.edu wrote: > > >DW>Why is it that the direct ancestors of insects found in resin 42 milion > > >years old, will today die out in large numbers from the attack of a Varroa > > >mite of equal pedigree. Surely in all that time similar threats have been > > >dealt with successfully? > > Varroa was not found on Apis Mellifera 42,000,000 years ago or even 100 > years ago. > > Varroa is a natural pathogen of Apis Cerana (AKA the Asian Honey Bee). This > bee is a completely different species. The adults are smaller than a. > mellifera and the colonies are also smaller (never big enough to fill more > than 2 small boxes). The honey yield from this species is also small. > > Among other things this species HAS evolved to tolerate Varroa. The bees > simply brush them off with a highly developed grooming technique. For this > species Varroa is just a minor nuisance. > > Problems for modern beekeepers began about 40 years ago. At that time, > beekeepers in some parts of Asia tried to use a. mellifera in instead of a. > cerana. They hoped to get a better yield of honey from a. mellifera. It > appears that varroa jumped species at this point from a. cerana to a. > mellifera. As a. mellifera had never been exposed to varroa before, they > have no effective defense and suffer badly for it. > > It is likely that no one was aware of the problem at the time and so it was > allowed to spread unchecked through out Asia and Europe. In addition, some > cretins kindly shipped it over the water to the UK and mainland America > (North & South?). I believe it has not yet arrived in Africa. > > I know it has not reached Australia, New Zealand or Hawaii. Each of these 3 > places are anxious to keep it out which is why they get nervous when other > people try too import bees. > Regards > > Chris Allen Dear Mr. Allen: You are right about Varroa jacobsoni's spread and ability to parasitize honeybees. I would like to add to your statement that africanized honeybees have developed tolerance for Varroa and also some strains of British honeybees. Also, you may not be aware that I have announced through this medium that I have developed a method to combat both mites, Varroa and tracheal mites. The results of my work will soon be revealed and available to each and every beekeeper in the world! Be patient, friend, and have faith. Varroa and tracheal mites will eventually be history. MERRY X-Mas and Happy New Year! Dr. P. Rodriguez ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Dec 1996 09:32:47 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Joel W. Govostes" Subject: Re: Uncapping Tray Info Comments: To: Keith8920@aol.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" OK Keith! I can attempt to describe an easy version of the uncapping tray. First, let me emphasize that for a few colonies, you don't need a special electric uncapping knife. A good large serrated bread knife will serve very well and require no heat. Also, it can get into somewhat sunken areas of comb because it is flexible. Now, the tray: Materials: aluminum baking pan (big) empty super queen excluder (wire type) 1/2 " strips of wood, long wire nails What you will need is a deep super (or shallow, but you will have less volume) or similar box, and a big aluminum pan. I found that the local restaurant-supply/bulk food store had these big aluminum baking pans, as used by caterers. They measured about 16 x 24", and were the flexible, disposable aluminum. (Similar material to the round single-use, disposable pie pans.) Anyway, these big pans have some slight ridges across the surface, to give them strength. I pounded them down for the most part with a rubber mallet. NOW, cut yourself two 1/2" thick strips of wood, 20 " long. Invert the super. Lay the queen exluder over its bottom. Now, lay a 20" strip of wood on each side of the q. excluder, on the rim, along the hive side walls. Put a nail thru the strips, excluder rim, and into the hive wall at each of the four corners.So you have \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ ------------- \xxxxxxxxxxxx\ \ xxxxxxxxxxx\ \ xxxxxxxxxxx\ \xxxxxxxxxxxx\ excluder -------------- ______________ \ \ |\ \ | \ \ | \ \ | \ \ \ --------------- \ | | \ | | hive body \|______________| I hope this art holds up in transmission. It should look like the two sticks, excluder under that, and super at bottom. Just drive 4 thin nails in at the corners to secure them all together. Now flip the super over and do a little shaping of the pan edges if you need to, and the super fits right into the pan. It is held up off the pan surface 1/2" by the sticks. Next take another stick and tack it across the center of the top of the super, side to side. You can also have a nail point sticking up out of the center of the stick. This is to balance the end of the frame on while you uncap. Finally, cut a hole in the rim of the pan (on the front edge) for the honey to drain through. You can then uncap, the honey will drip thru the excluder onto the pan, and run down out of the hole into a pail. When done for the day, I would tip up the other end of the pan with a board, to help the honey to drain faster overnight. Here's a crude side view of the setup. ______^______ | | | | |___________| \_______________/o <--------hole in rim for honey flow xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxxxxxxx x x x x | | x x |HHH| <---- (pail on floor) x X ----- What is nice about this is once you are done you can just disassemble everything and the super, excluder,etc are available for other use. THE NEXT GENERATION: I also built a free-standing frame- type setup out of wood, about waist height. It holds two exluders, side by side, and they are just set into a rim across the top (not nailed). Then two hive bodies go on, side by side, and I uncap into both. It provides lots of room. Also, when one side is draining you use the other. Beneath the wooden frame-rim supporting the exluders and hive bodies, I just sloped a tray of sheet metal and fastened it between the wooden legs of the structure. So the honey drips down, hits the pan, and runs down to bucket. It is very simple. Well there are a zillion different ways to do it, but here are a couple which you can easily modify and adapt. Have fun! If you need clarification, let me know. I have used these extensively and like them much better than any of the "boughten" trays I have tried (which tend also to be expensive). Happy holidays and all! Joel ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Dec 1996 09:01:15 -0600 Reply-To: bbirkey@interaccess.com Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Barry Birkey Organization: Birkey.Com Subject: Re: BIRDS MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Chris Allen wrote: > > You blokes are obviously enjouy yourselves and I don't want to get in your way > BUT > I think you may have a few crossed wires. > > This list is normally about beekping bees rather than raising birds. > > Perhaps you have "dialed the wrong number" > Regards > > Chris Allen I always thought the two went together. When discussing one you must also discuss the other. "The birds and the bees" -Barry -- Barry Birkey West Chicago, Illinois USA bbirkey@interaccess.com http://www.birkey.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Dec 1996 09:15:34 -0600 Reply-To: bbirkey@interaccess.com Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Barry Birkey Organization: Birkey.Com Subject: Re: Filtering e-mail MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Chris Allen wrote: > > At 05:52 23/12/96 +0000, you wrote: > >There is an email program available on the web free of charge that > >provides mail filtering. It is called Pegasus Mail .... > > FGS! WHERE?? > Regards > > Chris Allen http://www.pegasus.usa.com/ftp.htm -- Barry Birkey West Chicago, Illinois USA bbirkey@interaccess.com http://www.birkey.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Dec 1996 13:57:10 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jinnah Edun Subject: BEES Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Well, does anyone have the book "Hunting Wild Bees" by Robert E. Donovan. I am willing to pay triple its original price. Abbas Edun ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Dec 1996 14:08:17 -0500 Reply-To: beeworks@muskoka.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: David Eyre Organization: beeworks Subject: Re: Filtering e-mail MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT > >There is an email program available on the web free of charge that > >provides mail filtering. It is called Pegasus Mail .... Chris Allen wrote > FGS! WHERE?? I used Eudora light and found it lacking for what I needed. So I transfered to Pegasus! Great program! Try ftp://risc.va.edu/pub/network/pegasus/winpm242.exe That last bit 'winpm242.exe' is in fact for IBM with Windows 3.1. The program is set to download and to set up on your machine almost automatically, super system!!. Will take, subject to your modem about 90 minutes to download, it will allow you to order the manuals if needed. Merry Xmas everyone. Regards Dave........ ********************************************************* The Bee Works, 9 Progress Drive Unit 2, Orillia, Ontario, Canada. L3V 6H1 David Eyre, Owner. Phone 705 326 7171 Agents for E.H.Thorne & B.J.Sherriff UK ********************************************************* ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Dec 1996 14:36:29 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jim Moore DTN276-9448 ogo1/e17 508-496-9448 Subject: Q: Using rough cut lumber in hive body construction? I'm intending to construct some supers this winter ans have purchased some 1x10 rough cut lumber. This contains knots larger and 2.5 inches. I expect I will cut around the largest knots and get relativley clear pieces. My question relates to the unplaned nature of the wood. Are there reasons not to use this rough surface for the interior or exterior of the hive? Painting the rough exterior will take more stain/paint. This is the only downside I can think of. Comments anyone? Thanks Jim Moore moore@aiag.enet.dec.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Dec 1996 15:26:29 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Mark D. Egloff" Subject: Ventilation: How much is enough? Comments: To: ohbee-l@sun1.oardc.ohio-state.edu Gentlepeople: It's been a long time since I've posted to the List and, quite frankly, I am a little nervous. It seems that there are a lot of sharks out there now waiting to snap at "us poor little fishes". But, WTH, my great uncle always said [generally when he was about to tell us a "fishing story" or other big whopper of a tale :)], "No Guts, No Glory!" [What that has to do with fishing stories and other tall tales, I never could figure out, but he said it anyway. He used to be a U.S. Marine, maybe that had something to do with it. ;)] I visited my wintered hives this past weekend. Temperatures: 35-40F, Cloudy with a light mist hanging in the air. All 10 look really fine from the outside and there was a comforting hum from the top deep super (I winter with two deeps and a medium.) on all 10 hives. The bees had not yet moved up into the medium super. As I was looking at all the miscellaneous holes and other areas which provide both emergency exits and ventilation, I remembered reading, I believe in one of Brother Adams books, an admonition about having "draughts". I began to wonder if there was any real data regarding the size and quantity of air that the bees move through the hive during the winter. Have there been any studies published regarding how much "ventilation" should one try use without causing the hive to become drafty? (Do the Bees really care? Or Does it really matter?) I know that there is a whole body of literature regarding ventilation of indoor wintering quarters, but that is not what I am interested in. In several of my hives I have modified the innercovers to allow more ventilation which seems to help keep them dry, but when is "to much of a good thing"? David Egloff Dayton, OH ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Dec 1996 17:03:36 -0800 Reply-To: alwine@dreamcom.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Al Needham Subject: Re: BEES MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jinnah: I don't guess anyone has it - no matter what price you offer. Try checking out some "Old Book Stores". My word, I must say that I have to give you an *A* for Persistence! Al -- * Have A Happy And Relaxing Holiday Season * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Al Needham,Scituate,MA,USA ** alwine@dreamcom.net * * >"The HoneyBee"-An Educational Software Program V1.0< * * Available from Sweden at: Http://www.kuai.se/~beeman/ * * Visit this site for close-up photos of Honey Bees at * * work and see how Honey is processed. * * " Version 2.0 coming in '97'.....stay tuned in! " * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Dec 1996 17:05:13 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Mike & Linda Subject: Pollination Contracts..That time of year.. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello all, and a Happy Holiday Season ! I was wondering if anyone could give me any pointers on a matter of pollination. I'm going from six to 10-12 hives total next year, and I plan to exchange pollination services for a place to keep my bees. In this particular instance, the crop is 25 acres of pumpkins. The acreage is mostly contiguous, with 2/3 being 1/2 mile from the other 1/3. About how many colonies of bees are needed, minimum? Assuming a good supply of other natural sources, how many is too much? Can't seem to find specific data on pumpkin pollination in the usual sources. Any imput here would be extremely useful. Thanks Mike ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Dec 1996 09:24:55 +1000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Chris Allen Subject: Re: Using rough cut lumber in hive body construction? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >Are there reasons not to use this rough surface for the interior >or exterior of the hive? I don't think the bees give a brass razzoo about the quality of the timber. They happily build nests in hollow trees, wall cavities, compost bins, old fridges etc. etc. Many of these places would certainly not have a smooth, even surface on the inside. However you build it, it must keep out the wind and moisture. If the material is good enough to last more than one season, so much the better. Regards Chris Allen ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Dec 1996 17:29:33 -0800 Reply-To: alwine@dreamcom.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Al Needham Subject: Re: Ventilation: How much is enough? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mark D. Egloff wrote: > > Gentlepeople: > It's been a long time since I've posted to the List and, quite > frankly, I am a little nervous. It seems that there are a lot > of sharks out there now waiting to snap at "us poor little > fishes". Mark: Don't sweat it! These "sharks" to which you refer are really nothing but "minnows" in disguise! Al -- * Have A Happy And Relaxing Holiday Season * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Al Needham,Scituate,MA,USA ** alwine@dreamcom.net * * >"The HoneyBee"-An Educational Software Program V1.0< * * Available from Sweden at: Http://www.kuai.se/~beeman/ * * Visit this site for close-up photos of Honey Bees at * * work and see how Honey is processed. * * " Version 2.0 coming in '97'.....stay tuned in! " * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Dec 1996 16:53:42 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Doug McCulloch Subject: Re: Using rough cut lumber in hive body construction? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" The only thing that I could say about rough lumber would be to make sure that as with any material ensure it is not too green or otherwise leave your boxes oversize and cut them down after the material has shrunk however amount its going to. Also it would be preferable if the rough material were bandsawn lumber as it will be more likely to maintain its dimension as regards to thickness over the lenth of the boards. Also it will be much smoother and easier to work with. As to the knots, I just keep a brush handy as I'm cutting hand-holds and shellac them from the inside, or if the knots have already fallen out a small piece of tin works well to make them bee-tight. Of course don't do this till after the hand-holds are cut though and avoid possibly hitting a nail with the cutter. Other than that and the difficulty in finishing the outside there should'nt be a problem. If you could get it planed for 100-150 dollars it might be worth it too just to have that much nicer and smoother equipment to handle later on. When you handle a painted rough surface later on it is very abrasive and pokey. It would amount probably to about 1 dollar per box to have it planed. Hope I've been a help. Merry Christmas everyone. Doug McCulloch ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Dec 1996 18:11:48 -0600 Reply-To: bbirkey@interaccess.com Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Barry Birkey Organization: Birkey.Com Subject: Re: Q: Using rough cut lumber in hive body construction? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jim Moore DTN276-9448 ogo1/e17 508-496-9448 wrote: > > My question relates to the unplaned nature of the wood. > Are there reasons not to use this rough surface for the interior > or exterior of the hive? > > Painting the rough exterior will take more stain/paint. > This is the only downside I can think of. Actually Jim, a rougher surface will generally outlast a smooth surface when it comes to wood because it will hold more paint for protection. Taking more paint is an upside. The added thickness is also a plus. You'll have a more durable hive than most. Just make sure you keep the inside dimensions to spec. Old barn boards, also rough sawn and around 7/8" to 1", work well if you can get the size you need. If I came across some rough sawn lumber I wouldn't hesitate for a minute to make hives out of it. -Barry -- Barry Birkey West Chicago, Illinois USA bbirkey@interaccess.com http://www.birkey.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 16:42:58 -0800 Reply-To: alwine@dreamcom.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Al Needham Subject: Re: Okay, okay!! Let's not start this!! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Palm, Kevin R. (LLP) wrote: > > Folks, > > Please forgive me for butting in, but when I saw the flame-throwers > heating up over the issue of evolution vs. creationism, Gee, I can remember some previous flame-wars. I dunno, but I don't see any flame-war taking place. I found it a very intelligent and thought provoking discussion. That's the way my eyeballs perceive it Kevin. Maybe the effects of our individual viruses,etc. {re:Allen's remarks} our responding differently. Al Merry Holidays and a Happy New Year To All. May our Honey Bees survive the winter happy & healthy!! -- * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Al Needham,Scituate,MA,USA ** alwine@dreamcom.net * * >"The HoneyBee"-An Educational Software Program V1.0< * * Available from Sweden at: Http://www.kuai.se/~beeman/ * * Visit this site for close-up photos of Honey Bees at * * work and see how Honey is processed. * * " Version 2.0 coming in '97'.....stay tuned in! " * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 22 Dec 1996 11:34:39 -0800 Reply-To: alwine@dreamcom.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Al Needham Subject: Re: Losses MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Brian R Tucker wrote: > > Anyone Have any major losses to report Yet? Yes, I miss my mind. Has anyone seen it floating by? Seriously, I only have two hives and periodically take out the entrance reducer and run a thin dowel thru and sweep out what is there. A few days ago, I did this and I swept out what seemed to be an inordinate pile of deceased members. I thought I surely had lost this hive. A couple of days later the temp went up high enough for some cleansing flights. A number emerged from this hive..a much greater number than from the other hive. I was thrilled. Thinking about it later, I wondered if I should have opened her up to see what the population consisted of. However, I felt reluctant to do so, thinking that it was not a very good idea to disrurb whoever was there at this time of year..might lose a few more who fly out to see what is happening. The temp was a shade or two over 50% in full sun at about 1:30pm. The question: Should I have opened it up for the purpose stated above? ...perhaps to determine that if there were too few of them, I should give serious thought to attempting to combine them with the other strong hive..or, as someone stated here not too long ago..that is not a good idea, because if there are fewer in number they might be diseased by something or other..and why take the chance of putting the stronger hive at risk! What are the thoughts of you experienced folks out there in this type of situation? Thanks for the input from all of us who may be in nedd of this type of advice! Al * Have A Happy And Relaxing Holiday Season * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Al Needham,Scituate,MA,USA ** alwine@dreamcom.net * * >"The HoneyBee"-An Educational Software Program V1.0< * * Available from Sweden at: Http://www.kuai.se/~beeman/ * * Visit this site for close-up photos of Honey Bees at * * work and see how Honey is processed. * * " Version 2.0 coming in '97'.....stay tuned in! " * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Dec 1996 19:40:52 -0500 Reply-To: vcoppola@epix.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Vince Coppola Subject: Re: Q: Using rough cut lumber in hive body construction? In-Reply-To: <9612231936.AA26370@us1rmc.bb.dec.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII I have used rough cut to make supers, bottom boards ect. and recommend planning on one side. This will give you material of unuform thickness and make it much easier to produce parts that fit. Leave the rough side in and it will be easier to paint the outside (smooth). ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Dec 1996 17:18:29 -0800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Conrad Berube Subject: Key Largo beeswax source Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I'm heading down to Key Largo for the holidays and will be catching up on Yuletide gift-making by doing some batik dyeing. Anyone out there know if there's somewhere on the key where I can get some beeswax or should I take some with me? - Conrad Berube " ` ISLAND CROP MANAGEMENT " ` 613 Hecate St. _- -_`-_|'\ /` Nanaimo, B.C. _/ / / -' `~()() V8N 1X5 \_\ _ /\-._/\/ (250)754-2482; fax (250)656-8922 / | | email: uc779@freenet.victoria.bc.ca '` ^ ^ website: http://vvv.com/~bwarner/ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Dec 1996 20:57:18 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ian Watson Subject: holiday spirit (fwd) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Hello fellow beekeepers.... I know this is off-topic, but I thought a little humour would be in order at this festive season....:) Merry Christmas to all...:) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Fruitcake for the Holidays: A Special Recipe MATERIALS: - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - one cup water one cup sugar four large eggs two cups of dried fruit one teaspoon baking soda one teaspoon salt one cup brown sugar lemon juice nuts one bottle whiskey - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - DIRECTIONS: Sample the whiskey to check for quality. Take a large bowl. Check the whiskey again. To be sure it is the highest quality, pour one level cup and drink. Repeat. Turn on the electric mixer, beat one cup of butter in a large fluffy bowl. Add one teaspoon of sugar and beat again. Make sure the whiskey is still okay. Cry another tup. Turn off the mixer. Break two leggs and add to the bowl and chuck in the cup of dried fruit. Mix on the turner. If the fried druit gets stuck in the beaterers pry it loose with a screwdriver. Sample the whiskey to check for tonsisticity. Next, sift two cups of salt. Or something. Who cares? Check the whiskey. Now sift the lemon juice and strain your nuts. Add one table. Spoon. Of sugar or something. Whatever you can find. Grease the oven. Turn the cake tin to 350 degrees. Don !,t forget to beat off the turner. Throw the bowl out of the window, check the whiskey again and go to bed. Happy Holidays...:) @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ @ Ian Watson @ @ iwatson@freenet.npiec.on.ca @ @ @ @ THREE BEES: @ @ Bach singer ,/// @ @ Bee keeper >8'III}- @ @ Bell ringer ',\\\ @ @ @ @ 4 hives, 2 years in Beekeeping @ @ St. Catharines, Canada @ @ "I BEE, therefore I am" @ @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Dec 1996 22:15:16 +0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: George_Willy Subject: Re: BEES Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >Well, does anyone have the book "Hunting Wild Bees" by Robert E. Donovan. I >am willing to pay triple its original price. > >Abbas Edun Abbas: If you are unable to find this book I can explain the principals of beelinin to you taught to me be a wonderfull older gentleman in this neck of the woods. He was able to find I think 4 maybe 5 wild swarms this fall. good luck. George ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Dec 1996 22:15:20 +0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: George_Willy Subject: Re: Q: Using rough cut lumber in hive body construction? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > I'm intending to construct some supers this winter >ans have purchased some 1x10 rough cut lumber. This contains >knots larger and 2.5 inches. I expect I will cut around the >largest knots and get relativley clear pieces. > > My question relates to the unplaned nature of the wood. >Are there reasons not to use this rough surface for the interior >or exterior of the hive? > > Painting the rough exterior will take more stain/paint. >This is the only downside I can think of. > > Comments anyone? Thanks > > Jim Moore > moore@aiag.enet.dec.com Jim: Not a good idea. You would be better off to pay the price and bring the lumber back and have it plained down to 7/8" or 3/4". Reasons are several. Exterior will grab extra weather and will deteriorate faster. Weight is crutial when loaded with necter or capped honey. Interior sides need to be smooth or the bees wil load it up with propolus and burr comb. This will make managing the hives more difficult and the open time will be prolonged due to trying to clean them up. I varnish the interior of my deeps well before use to help prevent bacterial penitration into the wood itself. Plaining of rough lumber around here costs about .02 per bd ft. well worth the cost. Good luck George Addition. In continuing to read my mail I came across Chris Allens reply. He is right. Bees will set up home anywhere however those bees are considered wild and not managed. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Dec 1996 22:58:53 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Gordon Graham Subject: For Kevin D. Parsons on CompuServe Comments: To: alwine@dreamcom.net This email is for Kevin D. Parsons on CompuServe who responded to a recent message I posted regarding the creation vs evolution debate. I have to apologive for my butter fingers, but in trying to print out your reponse, I ended up deleting the email and your email address with it. Please resend your email off list. I would like to continue this discussion. Thanks and Merry Christmas to you and yours as well. Gordon Graham ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Dec 1996 22:28:28 -0600 Reply-To: bbirkey@interaccess.com Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Barry Birkey Organization: Birkey.Com Subject: Re: Q: Using rough cut lumber in hive body construction? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit George_Willy wrote: > the lumber back and have it plained down to 7/8" or 3/4". Reasons are > several. Exterior will grab extra weather and will deteriorate faster. Well, I don't know George what you base this on as I have been in the construction business for 20 years and know first hand that if wood is properly painted, a rougher surface board will hold up better to the elements and require less up keep than a smooth board treated the same way. Paint has less to hold onto when the suface is smooth and the thickness of the paint will be much less than what a rough board will hold. When we replace damaged and rotting exterior boards, it's the smooth ones we're replacing not the rough sawn. I don't want to make a big issue out of this but maybe there are other reasons not to use rough boards for hives but not the one you mention above. Especially if Jim thinks he would have to spend the extra money to have the boards planed for him to be able to use the wood. I remember earlier this year someone posted from Ireland when the issue of wood for hives came up and he said that he used rough sawn lumber for his and that they were holding up extremely well. Your point about the bees propolising the rough surface on the inside and building burr comb is something to consider. Have you experienced this first hand? Christmas greetings to all.....which I don't know why it should be any different from the other 364 days! -Barry -- Barry Birkey West Chicago, Illinois USA bbirkey@interaccess.com http://www.birkey.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Dec 1996 22:32:29 -0800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Tim Townsend Organization: TPLR Honey Farms Subject: Re: Q: Using rough cut lumber in hive body construction? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=euc-kr Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > My question relates to the unplaned nature of the wood. > Are there reasons not to use this rough surface for the interior > or exterior of the hive? > Using the rough wood on the inside should be no problem other than scrapping, but using it on the outside can present a bit of a problem, namely slivers. As well as being difficult to handle you may find that it doesn't stack tightly, as the rough sides grab each other. As well I believe that rough lumber deteriorates faster, even with stain IMHO. We have had some in the past. > Painting the rough exterior will take more stain/paint. > This is the only downside I can think of. > > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Dec 1996 00:08:53 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Gerry Visel Subject: Re: BEES AND BEELINING George, I'd be interested in some of the basics if you would like to share it here! Gerry Visel On Mon, 23 Dec 1996 22:15:16 +0500 George_Willy writes: >...I can explain the principals of beelinin to you taught to me be a >wonderfull older gentleman in this neck >of the woods. He was able to find I think 4 maybe 5 wild swarms this >fall. >good luck. George > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Dec 1996 00:19:33 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Janet Montgomery & Dan Veilleux Subject: THERMOSTAT FOR HONEY MELTER Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I have read several plans for honey melters for 5-10 gallons of crystallized honey using an insulated box and light bulbs governed by a thermostat. Since all of my honey crystallizes I really want to build such a device..My problem is where does one find an inexpensive thermostat that can be rigged to a light bulb.. I have a beer making thermostat for regulating cold refrigerators but that only goes to 80F (22C) , an old furnace thermostat than still falls short of the 130F ( 60C) needed. Any suggestions would be appreciated Dan Veilleux Columbus, Ohio Janet Montgomery 104 Fallis Road Columbus, Ohio 43214-3724 Home: (614) 784-8334 FAX: (614) 268-3107 E-mail: montgomery.1@osu.edu ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Dec 1996 22:49:13 -0600 Reply-To: allend@internode.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Allen Dick Organization: The Beekeepers Subject: Re: Q: Using rough cut lumber in hive body construction? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT > maybe there are other > reasons not to use rough boards for hives but not the one you mention above. Especially > if Jim thinks he would have to spend the extra money to have the boards planed for him to > be able to use the wood. Well, resale is a factor. I bought a bunch of hobbyist-made outfits when I was building up and although every one seemed to think he had a better way, they all wasted good material by not sticking to standard dimensions and practice. Most of it has been burnt by now. None of it fit with the other stuff. Bees will accept anything, but for efficient use, standards and consistency are very valuable -- for the sake of the people who have to use the equipment. Boxes, just the way the factories make them, last 50 years or more if you take care of them (maybe less in some areas where damp is a problem), so usually lasting is not a big problem. If you want to make the boxes out of rough lumber -- strictly for yourself, by all means go ahead, but know your work will be likely thrown away when it eventually goes into someone else's hands. In my experience anyhow. Regards Allen W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper VE6CFK RR#1, Swalwell, Alberta Canada T0M 1Y0 Internet:dicka@cuug.ab.ca & allend@internode.net Honey. Bees, & Art ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Dec 1996 01:03:59 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Daniel D Dempsey Subject: Re: THERMOSTAT FOR HONEY MELTER On Tue, 24 Dec 1996 00:19:33 -0500 Janet Montgomery & Dan Veilleux writes: >I have read several plans for honey melters for 5-10 gallons of >crystallized >honey using an insulated box and light bulbs governed by a thermostat. >Since >all of my honey crystallizes I really want to build such a device..My >problem is where does one find an inexpensive thermostat that can be >rigged >to a light bulb.. >I have a beer making thermostat for regulating cold refrigerators but >that >only goes to 80F (22C) , an old furnace thermostat than still falls >short of >the 130F ( 60C) needed. >Any suggestions would be appreciated Get a thermostat from a electric hot water heater either used or new (there is one for each element) . I cant remember just how to wire them one way will control the lower temp and changing the wire will control the upper limit. I use one for the fan on a wood stove in the shop. Most of then can be set from about 85 to 190 F ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Dec 1996 09:20:31 +0000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Alyn W. Ashworth" Subject: Re: THERMOSTAT FOR HONEY MELTER In-Reply-To: <199612240519.AAA12757@iwaynet.iwaynet.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 In message <199612240519.AAA12757@iwaynet.iwaynet.net>, Janet Montgomery & Dan Veilleux writes >I have read several plans for honey melters for 5-10 gallons of crystallized >honey using an insulated box and light bulbs governed by a thermostat. Since >all of my honey crystallizes I really want to build such a device..My >problem is where does one find an inexpensive thermostat that can be rigged >to a light bulb.. >I have a beer making thermostat for regulating cold refrigerators but that >only goes to 80F (22C) , an old furnace thermostat than still falls short of >the 130F ( 60C) needed. >Any suggestions would be appreciated > I would suggest you save some money....... Unless you get hold of a really accurate system (not just an on/off thermostat), then you are wasting your time trying to control the temperature because the variation in temperature between on and off is very wide, and you can easily overheat the honey. Overheating causes cumulative damage and loss of flavour. I would recommend you spend your time with a range of light bulbs - 30, 40 , 60 watts etc - and a good thermometer. Keep your insulated box in a location that is already fairly temperature-controlled (preferably central-heated), and run some tests starting with the smallest bulb. Let the whole system stabilize for 24 hours or longer. Once you have a working set-up with a bulb of enough power to reach the required temperate and where heat losses match power input, you can just put your honey in and forget about it!! If you need fine tuning then increase/decrease the insulation. -- Alyn W. Ashworth Lancashire & North-West Bee-Keepers' Association. (but I don't speak on their bee-half) ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Dec 1996 12:53:33 +0000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Joe Hemmens Subject: Re: THERMOSTAT FOR HONEY MELTER MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: Quoted-printable Last year I helped my mother in law make a cabinet which she uses for warming honey and for melting wax (she is a very keen wax exhibitor). We used - 1 old freezer 1 bulb socket 1 bulb 60w 1 small lighting dimmer switch 1 battery powered LED thermometer with probe Foil Apart from the freezer the other components cost about =A320. The only disadvantage that we found with the cabinet was that it lost heat very quickly when the lid was opened which is probably OK for warming honey, but for smallish amounts of wax this was a problem. My father in law solved this problem by replacing the lid of the freezer (chest type) with a piece of timber in which he placed a lens of the sort fitted to doors to enable someone inside a house to view somebody on the other side. This enabled my mother in law to see whether her wax had melted without lifting the lid of the freezer. A cardboard slip could be added to the dimmer to give some idea of the temperature at different settings. Seasonal Greetings Joe Hemmens > I have read several plans for honey melters for 5-10 gallons of > crystallized honey using an insulated box and light bulbs governed > by a thermostat. Since all of my honey crystallizes I really want to > build such a device..My problem is where does one find an > inexpensive thermostat that can be rigged to a light bulb.. I have a > beer making thermostat for regulating cold refrigerators but that > only goes to 80F (22C) , an old furnace thermostat than still falls > short of the 130F ( 60C) needed. Any suggestions would be > appreciated > > Dan Veilleux > Columbus, Ohio > Janet Montgomery > 104 Fallis Road > Columbus, Ohio 43214-3724 > Home: (614) 784-8334 > FAX: (614) 268-3107 > E-mail: montgomery.1@osu.edu > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Dec 1996 09:39:34 -0600 Reply-To: dvisrael@earthlink.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Donald V Israel Subject: Re: THERMOSTAT FOR HONEY MELTER MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > Get a thermostat from a electric hot water heater either used or new > (there is one for each element) . I cant remember just how to wire them > one way will control the lower temp and changing the wire will control > the upper limit. I use one for the fan on a wood stove in the shop. > Most of then can be set from about 85 to 190 F Why not use the entire heating element, and simply heat the honey to a desired temp? Don ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Dec 1996 09:47:53 -0600 Reply-To: dvisrael@earthlink.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Donald V Israel Subject: Happy Holiday bees MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Here in eastern North Carolina we had three days of temps in the mid teens F for lows. It warmed up to around 65 F yesterday. I checked and had bees working from nine hives(all I have). Even the very weak one was working and taking in pollan. Our maple bloom is about three or four weeks so I must get busy as bees and get supers ready and medicate. Happy Holidays to all Don ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Dec 1996 09:01:17 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "(Thomas) (Cornick)" Subject: Re: Q: Using rough cut lumber in hive body construction? I see no problems using rough cut lumber in hive construction provided the wood is properly seasoned. I should expect that due to the woods rough texture the bees will tend to propolize it a bit more than planed wood. If you desire to have your wood planed the width of a hive body is well within the range of just about every thickness planer out there and I am certain you could trade a jar or two of honey with a hobby woodworker for the job. Or barring a planer a course grit belt on a belt sander would smooth the wood In any case the bees won't care if the wood is planed or rough. Beekeeper woodworker sharpener ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Dec 1996 09:25:01 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Janet Montgomery & Dan Veilleux Subject: THANK YOU ALL Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" My query for thermostats was richly rewarded--- THANK YOU ALL FOR YOUR HELP AND GREAT SUGGESTIONS HAPPY HOLIDAYS TO ALL Dan Veilleux Janet Montgomery 104 Fallis Road Columbus, Ohio 43214-3724 Home: (614) 784-8334 FAX: (614) 268-3107 E-mail: montgomery.1@osu.edu ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Dec 1996 08:37:54 -0600 Reply-To: bbirkey@interaccess.com Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Barry Birkey Organization: Birkey.Com Subject: Re: THERMOSTAT FOR HONEY MELTER/rough lumber MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Janet Montgomery & Dan Veilleux wrote: > = > I have read several plans for honey melters for 5-10 gallons of crystalli= zed > honey using an insulated box and light bulbs governed by a thermostat. Si= nce > all of my honey crystallizes I really want to build such a device..My > problem is where does one find an inexpensive thermostat that can be rigg= ed > to a light bulb.. I got mine from: Surplus Center 1015 West "O" Street P.O. Box 82209 Lincoln, NE 68501 1-800-488-3407 Item #11-2016 I paid $9.99 for it, it's new, the range is 90=BA - 130=BA and it has an in= dicator light. I simply = mounted it in a 1900 electrical box (4X4X1-1/2) and screwed it to the side = of my freezer = cabinet and feed the probe through a 1/4" hole in the cabinet to the inside= =2E I used three = bulb sockets at the bottom which gets it up to the desired temp. fast and h= ave checked it = with a thermometer to calibrate it. Works great. Allen Dick wrote: >Well, resale is a factor. I bought a bunch of hobbyist-made outfits >when I was building up and although every one seemed to think he had >a better way, they all wasted good material by not sticking to >standard dimensions and practice. Most of it has been burnt by now. >None of it fit with the other stuff. Allen makes a good point here. If you are making more than just a couple of= boxes and = want to be able to sell your woodenware when you decide to get out of beeke= eping, it would = be smart to keep to standard sizes. Beekeeping has a way of growing. You pl= an to only = have a couple of hives and then three years down the road you have thirty. = So if you want = to be able to sell your stuff to Allen down the road, don't make them look = as if a hobbyist = made it! Use box joints. Just a little plug there. :>) -Barry -- = Barry Birkey West Chicago, Illinois USA bbirkey@interaccess.com http://www.birkey.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Dec 1996 11:48:16 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Faith Andrews Bedford Subject: Re: The Birds and the Bees Today, while "cleaning out" my mailbox after a hiatus of several days, I found several interesting entries. It is always intriguing to flip quickly through the postings and see what the "hot" topic is and follow the trend. All of a sudden, in the middle of the bee stuff, I found a query about BIRDS! Then, there followed several responses to the bird query. Shortly thereafter someone requested these "bird people" to get off the bee line. Where, I wondered, was all this coming from? How did the bird people stumble upon the bee line? Then, a few more postings on down I came across a short, simple posting, headed (in part) "How They Do IT Without `Doing It' ". It read, "In other words, they do have occasional sexual reproductions." The Mystery Is Solved! Somewhere, along the line, we have been percieved as a group that is, in actuality, discussing that famous old topic "The Birds and The Bees." That explains why the "bird" people are now infiltration `our' discussions. Having learned about the birds and the bees at about age 12 (and having put a bit of it to practice over the years) I, personally, don't feel the need to discuss it again. However, we may have some youngsters on the line so, if we're becoming a birds AND bees group, well fine. This conclusions having been made and the mystery of what birds people are doing in our postings solved, I must say that I am delighted to find a bit of levity here. It is a good holiday present. Have a wonderful New Year, y'all, may your bees flourish and the birds seranade you with sweet songs. Faith Andrews Bedford Tampa and Ivy, VA ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Dec 1996 09:36:02 -0500 Reply-To: dronebee@norfolk.infi.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Dr. Pedro Rodriguez" Organization: InfiNet Subject: Re: Q: Using rough cut lumber in hive body constru MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit bee-l@cnsibm.albany.edu wrote: > > I see no problems using rough cut lumber in hive construction provided the > wood is properly seasoned. > I should expect that due to the woods rough texture the bees will tend to > propolize it a bit more than planed wood. > If you desire to have your wood planed the width of a hive body is well > within the range of just about every thickness planer out there and I am > certain you could trade a jar or two of honey with a hobby woodworker for the > job. > Or barring a planer a course grit belt on a belt sander would smooth the > wood > In any case the bees won't care if the wood is planed or rough. > > Beekeeper woodworker sharpener Seems to me that there are a lot of opinions regarding the use of rough vs. smooth surfaced wood for manufacturing beehives, most likely are due to personal preference. There is nothing wrong with personal preference, as many of us will have found, that either type is suitable depending on various factors. The one factor that no has mentioned so far, is that honeybees are the ones who are going to live in those contraptions and that honeybees will adapt to just about any environment to make their nest, from the roughest to the smoothest. I have taken a great deal of feral bees from a great variety of hollows neither of which was smooth by any shape of the imagination. Any seasoned beekeeper will quickly ascertain that bees prefer a feral setting to the best type hive that man can make. Hence, without adding fuel to what I see as the initial stages of another un- ending controversy, I would like to cap (pun intended) my contribution by saying, to each his own! The best of wishes to everyone during the holiday season and may the New Year bring us huge honey harvests! Pedro ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Dec 1996 08:38:04 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Adrian Wenner Subject: Re: BEES AND BEELINING Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >Gerry Visel wrote [in response to a comment by George_Willy]: > > I'd be interested in some of the basics [on beelining] if you would like >to >share it here! We published a review and description of the techniques we used to find more than a couple hundred colonies this past several years. That reference (perhaps the latest out on the subject) is as follows: 1992 Wenner, A.M., J.E. Alcock, and D.E. Meade. Efficient hunting of feral colonies. BEE SCIENCE. 2:64-70. Which technique to use depends on the circumstances. I can mail copies of that paper to those serious about the wonderful science/art of beelining. Adrian Adrian M. Wenner (805) 893-2838 (UCSB office) Ecol., Evol., & Marine Biology (805) 893-8062 (UCSB FAX) Univ. of Calif., Santa Barbara (805) 963-8508 (home office & FAX) Santa Barbara, CA 93106 ************************************************************************* * "The difference between real and unreal things is that unreal things * * usually last much longer." Pot-Shots #6728 * * Copyright, Ashleigh Brilliant --- used with permission * ************************************************************************* ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Dec 1996 09:07:42 -0900 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jerry Fries Subject: Re: Old insects Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Thank you Sir. Something that makes sense in regards to old bees and varroa is greatly appreciated. Jerry Fries ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Dec 1996 09:15:07 -0900 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jerry Fries Subject: Re: BIRDS Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Parrokeets will do this. I wish I knew how to help,I lost a male that over worked himself to feed his babys. With only 3 however he will probably be alright. Look for people in the pet stores who know about " hand fed babys" then learn how to do it just in case. "hand fed babys are a premium bird on the market because they are already tamed and many times even begining to talk. I wish you the best of luck keep us posted Jerry Fries ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Dec 1996 09:29:51 -0900 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jerry Fries Subject: Re: BIRDS Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Chris you are right about this being a bee list ,but some one so desperate for information they would ask a beekeeperabout birds might be in need of a neighborly point in the right direction. Best wishes Jerry Fries ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Dec 1996 09:54:05 -0900 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jerry Fries Subject: Re: Ventilation: How much is enough? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" In regards to ventilation,drafts are terrible,all openings shouldbeon the same side of the hive so air will not blow through. A lot of ventilation is not good ,only a small opening, a slot of maybe 2 inches wide is all that is nessecary. a bottom opening which is the same size or slightly smaller is needed in addition to the upper opening. It sounds as though you are doing well. My suggestion is to tape up all cracks or holes that are not needed. Merry Christmas Jerry Fries ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Dec 1996 15:17:46 -0600 Reply-To: dvisrael@earthlink.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Donald V Israel Subject: Re: BIRDS MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jerry Fries wrote: > > Chris you are right about this being a bee list ,but some one so desperate > for information they would ask a beekeeperabout birds might be in need of a > neighborly point in the right direction. > Best wishes Jerry Fries I agree. Who better to ask? There are aver 600 addressees on this net and some seem to know a lot more than bees. I would have gladely responded with an answer if I had had a good one. Beeing a friend ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Dec 1996 14:06:25 -0800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Bob Rolfness Subject: Re: BEES AND BEELINING MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Adrian - I have been "reading the mail" and the subject most interesting. I would be most interested in getting a copy of the article. As I have no opportunity to obtain the article I would be most appricative if you could send it to me. I will pay for any and copying and postage costs. Thanks, Bob Rolfness 2327 Malaga Road NE Moses Lake, WA 98837 (509) 765-4721 Voice (509) 766-7277 Fax/Data PS - All the best of the Holidays... Adrian Wenner wrote: > > >Gerry Visel wrote [in response to a comment by George_Willy]: > > > > I'd be interested in some of the basics [on beelining] if you would like > >to >share it here! > > We published a review and description of the techniques we used to find > more than a couple hundred colonies this past several years. That > reference (perhaps the latest out on the subject) is as follows: > > 1992 Wenner, A.M., J.E. Alcock, and D.E. Meade. Efficient hunting of > feral colonies. BEE SCIENCE. 2:64-70. > > Which technique to use depends on the circumstances. I can mail copies > of that paper to those serious about the wonderful science/art of > beelining. > > Adrian > > Adrian M. Wenner (805) 893-2838 (UCSB office) > Ecol., Evol., & Marine Biology (805) 893-8062 (UCSB FAX) > Univ. of Calif., Santa Barbara (805) 963-8508 (home office & FAX) > Santa Barbara, CA 93106 > > ************************************************************************* > * "The difference between real and unreal things is that unreal things * > * usually last much longer." Pot-Shots #6728 * > * Copyright, Ashleigh Brilliant --- used with permission * > ************************************************************************* ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Dec 1996 20:37:21 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Joel W. Govostes" Subject: Re: *Ventilation: How much is enough? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I leave the entrances WIDE OPEN, and jack the outer cover up about 1/2" with sticks laid across the inner cover rim. This allows air movement up under the outer cover, and across the inner cover, with bee-escape hole open. Dry bees with lots of ventilation and plenty of food can keep themselves warm enough. Soggy bees will die. That's why packing them up too much can have detrimental effects. Please note the following illustration: Many years ago, Dr. C. L. Farrar at the Univ of Minnesota overwintered a colony in two deeps (right through a typically frigid Minnesota winter), which went on to produce an excellent above-average crop the next summer. Not a big deal, except for the fact that the hive's sides were largely composed of nothing but window screen! Really! He wrote it up in the bee journals and provided photograhs to prove it! Bees CAN survive the cold if they can keep DRY, even if that means some drafts. If, on the other hand, the moisture builds up inside the hive due to inadequate ventilation, then they are likely to perish, because that moisture has nowhere to go. It turns to frost in the hive, or worse, condenses and drips back down on the cluster. The combs get all moldy - it can be a real mess. When I was a kid out near Boston there was a big old tree in our neighborhood that housed a thriving bee colony. The gaping hole in the side of the trunk was at least a foot long, and perhaps 9" across, up around 15 feet from the ground. If you looked up into that big hole you could see the bottoms of the bees' combs. That colony just went on and on -- they consistently survived year after year, even with that seemingly extreme exposure. Right through the cold New England winters, and even with the neighborhood kids' occasional attempts at throwing rocks and sticks up into the cavity! I think that colony was also a good example to show that the bees can take ventilation without harm. Note, too that it has been found that the bees do not try to heat the interior of the hive or cavity, but rather the interior of the cluster. The outer layers of bees actually act as the insulation for the center. A short distance away from the outermost layer, the temperature is about the same as it is outside. (C. L. Farrar did the research on this as well, back in 40's I believe.) I often place a 2"-high rim under the inner cover on the hive. It has 3-4 half-inch diameter holes across the front. This rim gives the bees lots of room to migrate over the frames to keep in touch with food. Also, it provides space for feeding dry sugar (the original reason for the rims). The bees do well with these vent holes, and use them often for cleansing flights. With the lower entrances open, and the covers jacked up, I hardly ever have moisture accumulation in the hives. The bees do consistently well with this arrangement. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 25 Dec 1996 02:26:00 GMT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Andy Nachbaur Organization: WILD BEE'S BBS (209) 826-8107 LOS BANOS, CA Subject: Re: BIRDS DVI>Jerry Fries wrote: >> Chris you are right about this being a bee list ,but some one so desperat >> for information they would ask a beekeeperabout birds might be in need of >> neighborly point in the right direction. >> Best wishes Jerry Fries DVI>I agree. Who better to ask? There are aver 600 addressees on this net >and some seem to know a lot more than bees. I would have gladely >responded with an answer if I had had a good one. DVI>Beeing a friend Birds & Bees, a natural! What has interested me for a lifetime among the bees is the beekeepers themselves and I have found they come in all flavors, with all kinds of vocations and ad vocations other then keeping bees including the beekeepers of the commercial size with thousands of hives. Farmers, doctors, lawyers, politicians, both local and national and on and on. One of my long time friends who also happens to bee one of the larger producers of honey with bees in Texas, California, Nebraska, the Dakotas, and other places,,, collects windmills. Yep, the real thing you all have seen down on the farm or in pictures and paintings. He restores them to working, like new conditions and installs them on his home place or farm. He has 100, yep 100, mostly all different and he knows as much about windmills as anyone in North America. Rearing birds also seems to be a common hobby among beekeepers and I have worked with beekeepers who reared many kind of game birds commercially, and the game dogs that go with them. Hatching chicks by the 10's of thousands each year. And yes we also had a beekeeper here locally who did the same with exotic birds that were non game. It does not surprise me any more when I meet a beekeeper with interests other then bees, but I do find that many time these interests are in the biological sciences more often then not, rearing deer, dancing bears, or like my own hobbies which includes foot long gold fish and dozens of different native fresh water turtles, and native land turtles. I suspect that many generations ago when beekeepers lost their high position in society to manufactured sugars and oils for light other then beeswax we became almost a society of outcasts and wanders, doing what ever we could to bond with nature. I don't know how you or I got these bad genes that I call the bee gift but we were blessed and each year around this time when we all share so much of our honey and wax with others it is important that for the New Year each of us with the bee gift remembers that one of the responsibilities of this gift is to continue the keeping of bees by also sharing our beekeeping experiences with the next generations. You all have done well here this last year and I salute you all, commercial beekeeper, hobby beekeepers, beekeeper scientist, beekeeper educator, and beekeeper regulator! God Blessed us All! Happy Christmas and may you all be Blessed more in the New Year with new beekeeping knowledge and good beekeeping experiences to share with us all. ttul, the OLd Drone Andy Nachbaur, Los Banos, California --- ~ QMPro 1.53 ~ "Where there are fruits & nuts, there are beekeepers" ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Dec 1996 23:07:22 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Dave Green, Eastern Pollinator Newsletter" Subject: Re: Q: Using rough cut lumber in hive body construction? Comments: To: vcoppola@epix.net In a message dated 96-12-23 19:37:04 EST, vcoppola@epix.net (Vince Coppola) says: << I have used rough cut to make supers, bottom boards ect. and recommend planning on one side. This will give you material of unuform thickness and make it much easier to produce parts that fit. Leave the rough side in and it will be easier to paint the outside (smooth). >> I have never understood why many beekeepers only paint the outside. If the hives are painted inside and out they will give better service (better yet - dipped). Contrary to popular impressions paint is not impervious to water, so they will be about the same as far as rot, but the paint on both surfaces equalizes the movement of water vapor, so that they will never warp. If you've handled equipment that warps bad enough to pull nails on the joints, you'd appreciate that a lot. Also contrary to popular impression, bees do not suffer any problems from having a painted surface on the inside. If a good hard enamel is used, it will be easier to scrape the boxes clean of propolis and burr comb. Unfortuately I have very little new equipment and much of it is not worth painting now. But the best I have is painted both sides, and I am glad of it. As mentioned before, the bees don't care. But, especially if bees are moved often, it's nice to have good equipment. Pollinator@aol.com Dave Green, PO Box 1200, Hemingway, SC 29554 (Dave & Jan's Pollination Service, Pot o'Gold Honey Co.) Practical Pollination Home Page Dave & Janice Green http://users.aol.com/pollinator/polpage1.html Jan's Sweetness and Light Varietal Honeys and Gift Sets http://users.aol.com/SweetnessL/sweetlit.htm ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Dec 1996 23:12:50 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jinnah Edun Subject: My Birds Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Like I said before, I have a budgie (male) who has taken over since the female died. Which was just after the 3 young birds were hatched. He has been taking care of them, and we have been keeping their water and food clean. Now, the oldest bird, 1 week is growing feathers all over his/her body, and we would like to know how long it will take before his/her eyes will open. The other two little ones, are 5 and 6 days old. Please can anyone out there in bee land help me? Thank You, and to all a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year. Cheeko Ali ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 25 Dec 1996 20:27:00 -0800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: dave alexander k7da Subject: Re: THERMOSTAT FOR HONEY MELTER MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Janet Montgomery & Dan Veilleux wrote: > > I have read several plans for honey melters for 5-10 gallons of crystallized > honey using an insulated box and light bulbs governed by a thermostat. Since > all of my honey crystallizes I really want to build such a device..My > problem is where does one find an inexpensive thermostat that can be rigged > to a light bulb.. > I have a beer making thermostat for regulating cold refrigerators but that > only goes to 80F (22C) , an old furnace thermostat than still falls short of > the 130F ( 60C) needed. > Any suggestions would be appreciated > > Dan Veilleux > Columbus, Ohio > Janet Montgomery > 104 Fallis Road > Columbus, Ohio 43214-3724 > Home: (614) 784-8334 > FAX: (614) 268-3107 > E-mail: montgomery.1@osu.edu a very good thermostat that i use is made for heat control in a bird brooder. it can be found at local co-ops or feeds stores. be sure to get all the parts to made a complete unit. all i have ever found is the replacement parts and it takes the bellows and the frame. the unit is designed to control the temp at about 102 degrees and that is just about the temp that you want for melting honey. good luck dave k7da ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Dec 1996 23:36:26 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Joel W. Govostes" Subject: Re: Q: Using rough cut lumber in hive body construction? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >In a message dated 96-12-23 19:37:04 EST, vcoppola@epix.net (Vince >Coppola) >says: > > << I have used rough cut to make supers, bottom boards ect. and > recommend planning on one side. This will give you material of unuform > thickness and make it much easier to produce parts that fit. Leave the > rough side in and it will be easier to paint the outside (smooth). >> > Actually, I'd prefer the rough side OUT. That way the bees won't go coating up the interior with propolis, as they would if the rough surface faced in. I have never painted the inside of hives, but see the point as emphasized in the last post. If I could, I would opt for the dipping treatment, which at least one guy in our area was (is?) using. The hive parts were dipped in a molten mixture of paraffin and rosin, and from what I was told, the super boxes, lids, etc. really sizzle and soak that stuff up. Then over time, it weathers nicely to a natural greyish tone which is pretty good camoflage. After spending so much time, effort, and money on building good equipment, it only seems fitting to give it a good overall treatment like this. Anyone on Bee-L been using the dip? I have settled on a latex deck enamel or, preferably, Cuprinol stain. The stain is an excellent treatment, but floors are best soaked in it for a while. It still isn't as good as the hot dip. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 25 Dec 1996 01:11:44 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ted Fischer Subject: Re: Bacterial Resistence -- How They Do It Without "Doing It" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Tom Elliott wrote: > > In other words they do have occasional sexual reproduction > No,this is not true. Your quoted reference wrote about conjugation of two bacterial cells. These cells are alike; they have no sex or sexual differences. However, even without different sexes, genetic material still may be exchanged between two different organisms. Ted Fischer Dexter, Michigan USA ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 25 Dec 1996 01:55:53 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ted Fischer Subject: Re: Losses MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Al Needham wrote: > > Seriously, I only have two hives and periodically take out > the entrance reducer and run a thin dowel thru and sweep out > what is there. A few days ago, I did this and I swept out what > seemed to be an inordinate pile of deceased members. I thought > I surely had lost this hive. A couple of days later the temp > went up high enough for some cleansing flights. A number emerged > from this hive..a much greater number than from the other hive. > > The question: Should I have opened it up ... > Thanks for the input from all of us who may be in need of this type > of advice! > In winter, unless the temperature is quite warm (>50F), I would not open the hive for inspection. Put your ear against the side of the hive and tap sharply on the hive body. A sudden humming indicates a good colony, silence a dead one, and weak buzzing something in between. Then heft the back of the hive to check its weight. If light, add a candy board, quickly, to the top of the brood chambers. Don't worry about dead bees on the bottom board. Be sure the bees have an upper entrance, above dead bee accumulation and snow. There is always time for bottom board cleaning in the spring. Ted Fischer Dexter, Michigan USA ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 25 Dec 1996 08:39:10 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Stan Sandler Subject: Re: *Ventilation: How much is enough? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >I leave the entrances WIDE OPEN, and jack the outer cover up about 1/2" >with sticks laid across the inner cover rim. This allows air movement up >under the outer cover, and across the inner cover, with bee-escape hole >open. > >Dry bees with lots of ventilation and plenty of food can keep themselves >warm enough. Soggy bees will die. That's why packing them up too much can >have detrimental effects. Please note the following illustration: I agree for the most part with what you are saying Joel. I had sixteen hives with wide open entrances two winters ago (lost one, same percentage as other hives), last year I had twenty five (lost none, EXTREMELY sheltered location), so far this year I have no entrance reducers in about 125 of the stronger colonies, but I think I will reduce more than half of them before the broodless period (in Canada, don't know if southern bees have a broodless period) ends. (Even though the results have been good, I still feel guilty about leaving them open; its COLD out there). I have had numerous hives winter with the rabbet joint where the frames sit broken off and no problem. I think for this to work the hives have to be really well protected from the wind. Mine are placed right in the woods open to very small fields only directly to the south. However I believe that insulation on the top is important. For one thing it prevents condensation dripping. The system that Allen and Eric are trying sounds pretty good. I use top tray feeders with shavings/sawdust. I also don't know whether smaller colonies could overwinter without being protected more. They don't have big enough cluster to provide much insulation, and they don't need as much ventilation because they are producing much less moisture. Mine all have reducers in anyway, or they would have been robbed to death. This debate over ventilation/packing sure has been going on for a long time. It is discussed as an "old debate" in the Hive and Honeybee 1962 edition. I think the gals have the right idea anyway. Cuddling close to your friends and your honey is a dandy way to keep warm. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 25 Dec 1996 10:48:48 -0600 Reply-To: dvisrael@earthlink.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Donald V Israel Subject: BEEing a wonderful Christmas MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Good Morning and a very merry and happy Christmas to all. My bee friends were so good to me this year. I recieved an observation hive and a super for it, an electric uncapping knife, a beautiful bee orniment for our tree, and a bee flag to hang outside. I love my bees and my family, but we need to remember that Christ is the reason that all of this happens every year. Beeing your friend ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 25 Dec 1996 09:50:54 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Ralph W. Harrison" Subject: Re: Q: Using rough cut lumber in hive body construction? Joel could you give the Bee-L list the formula making the paraffin and rosin dip. I sound like something many of us could use. Thanks, Ralph Harrison Milford, CT, USA ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 25 Dec 1996 12:01:48 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Stan Sandler Subject: Dipping Wooden Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >>In a message dated 96-12-23 19:37:04 EST, vcoppola@epix.net (Vince >>Coppola) >>says: >> >> << I have used rough cut to make supers, bottom boards ect. and >> recommend planning on one side. This will give you material of unuform >> thickness and make it much easier to produce parts that fit. Leave the >> rough side in and it will be easier to paint the outside (smooth). >> >> > >Actually, I'd prefer the rough side OUT. That way the bees won't go >coating up the interior with propolis, as they would if the rough surface >faced in. > >I have never painted the inside of hives, but see the point as emphasized >in the last post. > >If I could, I would opt for the dipping treatment, which at least one guy >in our area was (is?) using. The hive parts were dipped in a molten >mixture of paraffin and rosin, and from what I was told, the super boxes, >lids, etc. really sizzle and soak that stuff up. Then over time, it >weathers nicely to a natural greyish tone which is pretty good camoflage. >After spending so much time, effort, and money on building good equipment, >it only seems fitting to give it a good overall treatment like this. >Anyone on Bee-L been using the dip? > >I have settled on a latex deck enamel or, preferably, Cuprinol stain. The >stain is an excellent treatment, but floors are best soaked in it for a >while. It still isn't as good as the hot dip. > > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 25 Dec 1996 12:01:52 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Stan Sandler Subject: Dipping Wooden Equipment Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >If I could, I would opt for the dipping treatment, which at least one guy >in our area was (is?) using. The hive parts were dipped in a molten >mixture of paraffin and rosin, and from what I was told, the super boxes, >lids, etc. really sizzle and soak that stuff up. Then over time, it >weathers nicely to a natural greyish tone which is pretty good camoflage. >After spending so much time, effort, and money on building good equipment, >it only seems fitting to give it a good overall treatment like this. >Anyone on Bee-L been using the dip? I dipped a couple hundred new boxes this summer in paint and was pleased with the process (used a LOT of paint though, even thinned heavily). They look really good so far. I have used paraffin to coat the inside of top tray feeders and have NOT been satisfied, it has usually flaked and chipped. Unless the rosin has a very marked effect on the wax (I don't know about this, although I have used rosin and rosin oil and beeswax to make flypaper) the wood must be VERY dry and the wax VERY hot and this is VERY dangerous. *****CAUTION*******CAUTION!!!!!!!!!********8 I do not believe that you could keep the wax hot enough to penetrate the wood without having the heat source right under the vessel you are dipping in (if you were doing any amount) and it is unlikely that you could dip without some dripping and splashing. Splashing wax and heat source is a FIRE HAZARD so bee careful. Splashing wax can also burn badly. I am speaking from experience having once burnt my young daughter who was watching me dipping large cheeses in parrafin/beeswax. The rope holding the big wheel broke and a good splash got her on the leg. It was not very nice, and that wax was considerably cooler that what I think would be necessary for good penetration is wood. In my opinion the hazards should be a big consideration in thinking about treating with this sort of dip. Regards, Stan ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 25 Dec 1996 10:43:11 -0600 Reply-To: allend@internode.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Allen Dick Organization: The Beekeepers Subject: Re: *Ventilation: How much is enough? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT While I agree with much of what you are saying here, I believe that there is more to most of it than meets the eye, and which merits discussion. I'll start with location: what seems reasonable in your locale, won't work reliably in Northern Canada -- if at all. I've tried it. My comments are for our locality or places like it. > I leave the entrances WIDE OPEN, We have often wintered with entrances wide open, but Szabo showed that the practice reduces brood rearing in late winter. Moreover, you just have to go out and put them on in the spring anyhow and then mice go crazy trying to get out. > and jack the outer cover up about 1/2" with sticks laid across the > inner cover rim. This allows air movement up under the outer > cover, and across the inner cover, with bee-escape hole open. Sounds like a good plan if you don't need insulation on the hive, like we do. The air flow at the top in this setup would be about right. > Dry bees with lots of ventilation and plenty of food can keep > themselves warm enough. Soggy bees will die. That's why packing > them up too much can have detrimental effects. True. But... *too much* ventillation also stresses the bees in several ways. For one, it shortens their lives -- not a problem if you have short winters, and secondly it increases the feed consumption noticably, again not a problem if you have lots of food and a short winter. > Many years ago, Dr. C. L. Farrar at the Univ of Minnesota > overwintered a colony in two deeps (right through a typically > frigid Minnesota winter), which went on to produce an excellent > above-average crop the next summer. Not a big deal, except for the > fact that the hive's sides were largely composed of nothing but > window screen! Really! He wrote it up in the bee journals and > > provided photograhs to prove it! Bees CAN survive the cold if > they can keep DRY, even if that means some drafts. What is likely not mentioned here is that Farrar ran two queen colonies. I studied his work and built 125 hives of Farrar equipment (medium 6-5/8" 12 frame boxes) to run hives his way when I first started keeping bees here. It worked well, but was a lot of work, and the custom equipment was not something you could just order and assemble. So I switched back to standards and continued to run two queens. After a few years, I realised that I was getting to do twice the work, with twice the expense and about the same amount of honey surplus as single queens, so I went back to single queen hives. I could run more of them with the same resources and thus did better in every way except one: Two queen hives had made me lazy when it came to wintering. I could just stick a vent board on the top and leave them. Most came through fine without wrapping. The single queen hives on the other hand suffered drastic losses under exactly the same treatment! A two queen hive in the fall has a lot stronger cluster of bees than a single queen hive can be relied on to have -- both in number of bees and in condition of individual bees. I suspect that this effect, combined with a location considerably south of us -- with a winter two months shorter than ours -- allowed Farrar to pull this stunt, and it was a stunt, since if I recall, he also did work with wraps using electric heater cords to maintain more stable hive temperatures with impressive results. I also expect a very sheltered location was used, since wind chill can have instant effects around here. A 30 KPH wind at minus forty like we had for days on end here late last winter would have killed them with great certainty. It was hard on our bees that were bundled up because they were already into brood rearing and needed to occupy sufficient comb to keep contact with adequate food. (Of course window screen does actually break the wind much more than most people realise). > Note, too that it has been found that the bees do not try to heat > the interior of the hive or cavity, but rather the interior of the > cluster. The outer layers of bees actually act as the insulation > for the center. A short distance away from the outermost layer, > the temperature is about the same as it is outside. (C. L. Farrar > did the research on this as well, back in 40's I believe.) Like many things we hear repeated about bees, it is a general conclusion reached from observations under some pretty specific conditions. I believe that the bees do *try* to heat the whole interior, but they 'know' when they are beat. It is true that bees do not need to heat the whole hive in the coldest times of the year, but they prosper when they can occupy and control conditions in the cavity in which they live. There have been numerous studies done in recent years that show that in the fall (Oct., Nov., Dec.) in North America, bees have little brood. According to Szabo, Nov. was the one broodless month. He found brood every other month. During the low brood rearing times, the need for a warm hive is less. When Winter comes (Dec., and increasingly in Jan, Feb.) the bees begin to raise brood, and their need for environmental control increases, since the cluster *centre* reaches and is maintained at above 30 degrees Celcius in healthy colonies if at all possible. How large the cluster *can* be is determined by the amount of heat loss, and this in turn is governed by the amount of air movement, as well as the losses due to radiation and conduction. In our climate, the minimum air flow that removes moisture and CO2 is optimal, and any insulation that reduces heat loss from the upper areas of the hive is essential. Moreover, windbreak, either in the form of bushes and fences, and/or a wrap that seals random cracks and holes is a vital necessity most years. If air flow becomes too great, bees lose heat fast and must consume more honey and consequently plug up with feces and wear out faster, moreover, they may actually even have short term problems maintaining necessary humidity in a cold dry climate, to the detriment of the brood. Moreover, as the cluster cools, it contracts, losing contact with essential stores and comb surface. This may not be a serious problem in the less drastic climates where such conditions cannot endure for long, but where every resource is precious and must be conserved, it may ultimately be fatal to the colony. This is particularly true of smaller and weaker colonies. As soon as they are able, bees will take control of the interior hive temperature, and if their home is well insulated, the cluster can expand and cover more food, comb, and consequently more brood. Whether this is desirable or not is a management decision for the beekeeper since this consumes food too. Some studies I have seen show the interior temperature in hives in some circumstances to normally remain well above ambient in winter. > I often place a 2"-high rim under the inner cover on the hive. It has 3-4 > half-inch diameter holes across the front. This rim gives the bees lots of > room to migrate over the frames to keep in touch with food. They also may cluster up there in our country, removing them from the combs and reducing the brood covered. When the first flow hits -- which can be very unpredictable here (+/- 2 months) -- they then waste time and energy making comb to fill this space, comb I then have had to remove. > The bees do consistently well with this arrangement. That is the main thing, but it won't work here. Regards Allen W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper VE6CFK RR#1, Swalwell, Alberta Canada T0M 1Y0 Internet:dicka@cuug.ab.ca & allend@internode.net Honey. Bees, & Art ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 25 Dec 1996 10:57:21 -0600 Reply-To: allend@internode.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Allen Dick Organization: The Beekeepers Subject: Re: Dipping Wooden Equipment MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT > I have used paraffin to coat the inside of top tray feeders and > have NOT been satisfied, it has usually flaked and chipped. > Unless the rosin has a very marked effect on the wax (I don't know > about this, although I have used rosin and rosin oil and beeswax > to make flypaper) the wood must be VERY dry and the wax VERY hot > and this is VERY dangerous. We use paraffin for our forklift pallets, with no hassel whatsoever. > I do not believe that you could keep the wax hot enough to penetrate the > wood without having the heat source right under the vessel you are dipping > in (if you were doing any amount) and it is unlikely that you could dip > without some dripping and splashing. Splashing wax and heat source is a > FIRE HAZARD so bee careful. We use a 300,000 BTU propane torch under a 4' X 50" tank -- outdoors. With reasonable care and rubber gloves, the whole thing is no big deal. The wax smokes a bit, and there is the remote possibility of the fumes igniting due to carelessnes, so outdoors is the way to go. Moisture content of the wood does not seem to have any bearing on success. Damp wood just takes a bit longer and foams more. We did lids and floors 15 years ago, and some of the floors are now showing rot on the skids where they contact the ground. > Splashing wax can also burn badly. You have to use your head, that's for sure. But with simple precautions, it is very safe. BTW We are considering using a new product we saw at the ABA convention last fall that requires no heat and apparently seals wood very well. It actually *requires* the wood to be damp before dipping. It costs about $900 Canadian for a drum 55 US Gals. Regards Allen W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper VE6CFK RR#1, Swalwell, Alberta Canada T0M 1Y0 Internet:dicka@cuug.ab.ca & allend@internode.net Honey. Bees, & Art ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 25 Dec 1996 13:55:50 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Joel W. Govostes" Subject: Re: *Ventilation - additional thoughts Comments: To: allend@internode.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >While I agree with much of what you are saying here, I believe that >there is more to most of it than meets the eye, and which merits >discussion....> Thanks, Allen -- I figured you'd qualify with some comments from your wealth of experience! I'm sure we have it easy compared to conditions up your way. The Farrar "stunt" (agreed, it was a stunt) was accomplished with a double-deep Langstroth. Not Farrar 12-frame equipment, and I don't recall that it was a previously 2-queen colony. It was a poignant "jab" to the proponents of heavy packing back in those days. We certainly don't have the winters here in NY that you do up north. What I have described is what has proved feasible at our latitude here in central NY and New England. A consistent problem I have seen over the years is lack of ventilation, and the bees can suffer because of it. BEES are the best insulation, after all, or apparently so. A strong colony going into winter covers more comb area, and so can maintain contact with food stores and maintain tempertures more easily. About the rims -- oh yes, sometimes I have seen practically the whole cluster just hanging in that 2" space, over the tops of the frames. They do survive that way, however, and can reach honey contained in the tops of the combs below. (Or they can keep alive on dry sugar provided within the rim-space.) I am mainly talking about ensuring survival here, not a developing brood nest. According to Morse, November is the lowest point on the brood rearing cycle here, with virtually no brood. Drafty hives once brood is present again can cause undue stress, for sure. If the cluster is large, the effects won't be so pronounced. Note that I do not provide auger holes, as was once customary, and the sugar-rims with front vent holes provide a good upper entrance. (I don't go around taping every crack and knothole closed.) It would be a mess if the rims were left on too long in spring, as the bees would fill that space up with crazy comb in a hurry. But I think there is some advantage to giving the bees a good amount of space above the top frames (such as from an inverted inner-cover, or a rim) so the cluster can migrate en masse across them, to remain in contact with honey. The top bee space alone doesn't provide much room for this. It is always disheartening to find a cluster starved out, only a couple inches from a comb of honey. The dry sugar has proved effective for keeping otherwise doomed colonies alive. The queen will get her brood nest going in the combs of the topmost brood chamber, below where the sugar is. The brood nest development may be retarded by the space and ventilation, but having the colony alive is worth it, and such stocks have gone on to produce fine crops here. (We are fortunate to have a long drawn out series of summer nectar sources, so even slow colonies can produce if they have time to get going.) Top insulation appears to have merit, especially when you can see that snow directly above a cluster will sometimes melt from off the lid. I have therefore used styrofoam between inner an outer covers of nucs and some small colonies. An upper entrance (1" x 3/8") was still provided to allow stale air to escape, and for cleansing flights. Moisture buildup was not a problem from such small colonies. This year I added the few questionable colonies together, to make strong units for winter, to help reduce the mollycoddling they might otherwise require. I would be interested in wintering practices used by any of you beekeepers in the Great White North. Allen, do you still use the 4-packs? Double or triple-deeps? Thanks muchly, and Merry Xmas, etc. Joel ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 25 Dec 1996 18:53:01 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Janet Montgomery & Dan Veilleux Subject: LOCATION OF SENDER Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Dear list members I really enjoy reading the information, comments, and shared experiences on this list. Having kept hobby bees in Minnesota, North Carolina and Ohio , I can safely say that there is a world of differences that must be considered when reading this list --One has to apply a good deal of " english " to adapt it to each location. In order to do this we must know where the writer hails from. I WOULD LIKE TO RESPECTIVELY REQUEST THAT WE AT LEAST IDENTIFY WHERE WE ARE FROM BECAUSE California, Georgia, Alberta or Ohio are beekeeping worlds apart. All areas have somthing to offer , that's why we are on this list and why I really enjoy it so much THANK YOU Dan Veilleux Columbus, Ohio Janet Montgomery 104 Fallis Road Columbus, Ohio 43214-3724 Home: (614) 784-8334 FAX: (614) 268-3107 E-mail: montgomery.1@osu.edu ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 25 Dec 1996 20:32:29 -0800 Reply-To: alwine@dreamcom.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Al Needham Subject: Re: Losses MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ted Fischer responded: > Don't worry about dead bees on the bottom board. Be sure the bees have > an upper entrance, above dead bee accumulation and snow. There is > always time for bottom board cleaning in the spring. Thanks Ted. I don't worry about dead bees per se, I naturally expect them. In this instance, as I stated it was a *bigger pile of corpses* then I had been used to seeing, hence my concern. Al -- * Have A Happy And Relaxing Holiday Season * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Al Needham,Scituate,MA,USA ** alwine@dreamcom.net * * >"The HoneyBee"-An Educational Software Program V1.0< * * Available from Sweden at: Http://www.kuai.se/~beeman/ * * Visit this site for close-up photos of Honey Bees at * * work and see how Honey is processed. * * " Version 2.0 coming in '97'.....stay tuned in! " * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Dec 1996 11:53:42 +1000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Mauricio Montes Castillo Subject: Re: BIRDS Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 16:28 23/12/96 +1000, >Chris Allen wrote: >... I think you may have a few crossed wires. >This list is normally about beekping bees rather than raising birds. >Perhaps you have "dialed the wrong number" >Regards > >Chris Allen > Come on Chris... a bit of computer/practical/biology knowlegde once in a while does not hurt. Mauricio :) ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 25 Dec 1996 21:00:33 -0800 Reply-To: alwine@dreamcom.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Al Needham Subject: Re: LOCATION OF SENDER MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Janet Montgomery & Dan Veilleux wrote: > Dear list members I really enjoy reading the information, comments, and > shared experiences on this list. > I WOULD LIKE TO RESPECTIVELY REQUEST THAT WE AT LEAST IDENTIFY WHERE WE ARE > FROM BECAUSE California, Georgia, Alberta or Ohio are beekeeping worlds > apart. Allen & others have mentionned this point before and it really does help! just put the info in your e-mail signature. Al -- * Have A Happy And Relaxing Holiday Season * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Al Needham,Scituate,MA,USA ** alwine@dreamcom.net * * >"The HoneyBee"-An Educational Software Program V1.0< * * Available from Sweden at: Http://www.kuai.se/~beeman/ * * Visit this site for close-up photos of Honey Bees at * * work and see how Honey is processed. * * " Version 2.0 coming in '97'.....stay tuned in! " * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 25 Dec 1996 20:22:19 +0000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Sally Fries Subject: Re: REVIEW BEE-L MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Merry Christmas Bee Liners Aaron Morris wrote: > > Hi Folks, > > The REVIEW BEE-L command is a LISTSERV command and operates according to > how the individual list is configured to LISTSERV. REVIEW can be set to > be open to the public at large, or it can be restricted to list > subscribers, or it can be further restricted to list owners. > > In the past on BEE-L, the REVIEW command was open to the general public. > This was deemed too liberal and was to be restricted to list subscribers. > Inadvertently it got restricted to list owners, hence since last July the > REVIEW command would return the "Unauthorized" message to all reviewers > except for the list owners. BEE-L is now configured to LISTSERV so > REVIEW requests will be serviced for BEE-L subscribers, but not the > general public. If subscribers don't want to be included in the list of > subscribers, they must make their subscription concealed by sending the > SET CONCEAL command to LISTSERV@cnsibm.albany.edu . > > ALL these commands should be sent to LISTSERV, not BEE-L! Users who are > not well versed in LISTSERV usage are encouraged to send mail to: > LISTSERV@cnsibm.albany.edu > with a single line in the body of the mail which reads: > INFO REFCARD > > LISTSERV will return to the requestor a file called LISTSERV REFCARD > which is a short (less than 300 lines) online tutorial that informs > users of commonly used commands (such as SUBSCRIBE, SIGNOFF, REVIEW, > SET CONCEAL and even SEARCH (good luck!)). > > Aaron Morris - thinking there's more to LISTSERV than functional illiteracy! > Yeah, I know, we can't know everything about everything. > Rather than flame me, send mail to LISTSERV@cnsibm.albany.edu > with one line that reads: > INFO REFCARD ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Dec 1996 00:01:59 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Tom Allen Subject: Re: Bee and entomology Course times and dates. In a previous convrestation we discussedd enroilling in your course in teh spring or winter session. How often does the class meet, how many lab seessions per week and are theyy on the same days as class room. What I am looking at it the travel time involved. I want to get the most out of mu ty travel.such as other related courses in the same date frames I understand that senior citizens can enroll for non credit by paying only a small fee. True ( ) False ( ) Have recovered a great deal fro lst witners problems but am still alittlel leary about the driving. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Dec 1996 00:02:15 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Tom Allen Subject: Re: Insulation In a message dated 96-11-04 11:58:36 EST, you write: << iscussion of Bee Biology) To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU (Multiple recipients of list BEE-L) <>. A friend showed me how to make an outer box of polyethylene foam blcok scuh as used in poured concrete foundations. They are coursely dove-tailed so that they snap in place .A band of tape around the ouside is a good secuirty against high winds. I have made pitched roof covers with vents that allow for constant ventilation. Can not saymore than that they worked on some hives for two years, and in others I had the usual losses popularly attributed to varroa and trachael mites. The hives are insulated but not airtight. Will send sketch on request ed but not air tight which would cause condensation. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 25 Dec 1996 10:36:55 +0100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Hugo Veerkamp Organization: Stichting InterWorld Subject: Bee Pages: Apimondia dept. enlarged dear bee friends! By special arrangement with Apimondia, the International Federation of Beekeepers' Associations, based in Roma, Italy, we were able to add several pages to the Apimondia dept. here at the Bee Pages website. Documents added include a full list of international Apimondia membership, a list of their publications, and the official documents conc. the 1995 Lausanne and the 1997 Antwerp meetings. Also the Apinet dept. at 'the Bee Pages' is being updated presently. A new URL( see below) has been implemented for 'the Bee Pages' website; the former URL may remain functional as well. sincerely, Hugo -- \|/ @ @ drs.Hugo Veerkamp ----------oOO-(_)-OOo-------------------------------------- | THE BEE BBS AMSTERDAM THE BEE PAGES | | Email: | mail : the Bee bbs | | hug.bee@beenet.iwg.nl | P.O. BOX 51008 | | hug.bee@net.hcc.nl | 1007EA AMSTERDAM | | | The Netherlands | | Beenet : 240:31/0 | modem: +31 20 6764105 | | Fidonet: 2:2801/28 | voice: +31 20 6715663 | | http://web.inter.nl.net/hcc/beenet | ----------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 25 Dec 1996 03:24:22 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: frankay@mail.netshop.net Subject: Thanks & Happy Holidays Comments: To: LISTSERV%ALBNYVM1.BITNET@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To all of you out there who responded to my query about the possibility of using bee venom therapy to treat ALS/Lou Gehrig's disease - thank you, from me and from my friend. Your comments and suggestions were very much appreciated. With your help, we have now made contact with a naturopath near us who worked with Charlie Mraz and we will be seeing him in the new year to assess the situation. A very happy holiday season to you all. Regards, Fran Kay ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Dec 1996 12:37:29 -0600 Reply-To: dvisrael@earthlink.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Donald V Israel Subject: Re: LOCATION OF SENDER MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Janet Montgomery & Dan Veilleux wrote: > > Dear list members I really enjoy reading the information, comments, and > shared experiences on this list. Having kept hobby bees in Minnesota, > North Carolina where in North Carolina? Don ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Dec 1996 11:46:24 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Dave Green, Eastern Pollinator Newsletter" Subject: "Mother Nature" and wild bees rescuing us? A widely distributed press release from about our (USA) pollination situation contains some important truth, but also contains some distortions and leaves out some very important factors. Here is the text with my commentary: Source: The Forgotten Pollinators Campaign, Arizona- Sonora Desert Museum, 2021 N. Kinney Rd., Tucson, AZ 85743; email fpollen@azstarnet.com; http://www.oldwestnet.com/asdm/fp/. November 22, 1996 <> I am in complete agreement with the conclusion of the Forgotten Pollinators Campaign that we must enhance and develop alternative pollinators to improve our pollination situation. We cannot depend solely on honeybees for our pollination needs. However, to write off honeybees and expect that "Mother Nature" will "come to the rescue" is an invitation to famine. It makes some premature and sweeping assumptions that may not be valid. It is true that wild bees have shown some resurgeance in the absense of competition from honeybees. But this has not happened everywhere, and where it does, is only of significant import to gardeners and very small farmers. We are forgetting that the bulk of our food supply today is grown in monoculture situations. Without help, wild bees cannot produce large enough populations to adequately pollinate today's large farms. In orchards, for example, there is one rush of bloom each year. Then, from a bee's perspective, barrenness for the rest of the year. Not only is the environment barren, but it is acutely hostile, as repeated pesticide applications are made. Alternative pollinators cannot be relied upon until we gain the techology to culture and concentrate them into the orchards at the time of bloom. This technology is in its infancy today. Honeybees have been cultured throughout human history, and the capability to concentrate them for pollination has been well developed. Secondly, while it is noted that honeybees are not native pollinators, it is not mentioned that many of our basic food crops are also imported. Honeybees have been the primary pollinators of human food crops throughout history. The sensationalist tone of the article seems to write off honeybees, and ignores this important fact. While we may be wistful, there is no way to return to the "pristine" environmental conditions of precolonial America. It has been changed forever, and we might as well make the best of it. Thirdly the report ignores the contribution of the beekeepers who "busted their butts" to get honeybees into the orchards and fields in time to pollinate the crops. Crediting "Mother Nature" with the "rescue" is a slap-in-the-face to all these men and women, who are among the hardest working and most productive of all Americans. It would be unfortunate if the Forgotten Pollinators Campaign pits beekeepers and advocates of alternative pollinators against each other, when they are natural allies. Researchers who visited eastern sites must have concentrated on backyard gardens and very small farms; they could not have gone to commercial orchards and farms of any size. Last spring there was a lot of hand-wringing in the media about the winter losses of honeybees in the north, but little note of the fact that many of the honeybees had gone south for the winter. And replacements for the lost bees were already being prepared in the South to be rushed north in time to pollinate the orchards. On the east coast, migratory beekeepers carry many tractor-trailer loads of bees to Florida, South Carolina and Gulf Coast Locations. Each hive that overwinters in the south is like a pregnant cow. The pollen and nectar of spring bloom stimulates the bees and it is "calving" time. The bees build rapidly and more hives are started. Most of these are returned north to replace losses and make increase. This is a normal situation, this past year was just more stressful, with the larger losses. From Florida, thousands of truckloads of bees are used in citrus groves for honey production and pollination, then they are loaded and transported to northeastern and Great Lakes orchards. Hundreds of thousands of hives were provided to pollinate the crops. Many growers were not able to get as many as they wanted, and most had to pay a little more than they preferred, but few were without honeybees, and those were, were those who waited until the last minute to order. Fourth, even as we talk of the need for more protection for wild pollinators from pesticides, there is intense lobbying going on to remove the only current protection they have in US law. Pesticides that are toxic to bees have label directions (placed under "Environmental Hazards") that prohibit application while bees are foraging. The placement of the instructions in the environmental section acknowledges the value of these pollinators as an important environmental resource, and it clearly does not distinguish one species of bee from another. The label directions definitely make the applicator responsible for bee protection; application in violation of the label is illegal. While the law thus protects foraging bees, in practice, this is seldom implemented. Pesticide enforcement is at the state level, and bee-protection label enforcement is best in states that have a lot of fruits and veggies that need bee pollination. There is rarely any training to pesticide applicators to help them determine when bees are foraging. Almost all enforcement is directed only to managed honeybees, and many states actually "officially" circumvent the label directions. Rather than implement the label directions, they have pesticide applicators notify beekeepers of applications. South Carolina pesticide regulators have made public statements that officially refuse to ackowledge that label directions apply to wild bees. North Carolina, in a massive aerial spraying program last fall, for mosquito control after Hurricane Fran, also refused to protect wild pollinators. They applied resmethrin and malathion (in clear violation of the labels) during warm, sunny afternoons when bumblebees, solitary bees, and honeybees were at peak foraging activity on goldenrod and astor. (I personally documented this with videotape.) The present lobbying by the pesticide industry is in the guise of "reforming" bee protection directions. It is aimed at shifting the burden for bee protection entirely back to beekeepers. And it seeks to evade any legal protection for wild pollinators by specifying only managed honeybees in label directions. South Carolina pesticide regulation head, Dr. Von McCaskill, proposed replacement current bee directions with the vague statement, "Avoid applications which would result in adverse effects to managed honeybees." This statement would be completely unenforceable, even for domestic bees, and totally removes protection for all wild bees. Two official versions of the statements are now under consideration by the EPA, according to Dr. Tom Sanford, Florida bee specialist: Proposed statement #1-- <> Proposed statement#2-- <> Note that both statements allow states to set up their own program, in lieu of these directions, and that only kept honeybees are protected. In states such as South Carolina, where beekeeping is a weak industry, the state program will be a farce. Only in states with a vocal group of growers, that needs pollination, will there be any protection at all. And it will be largely based on dumping the protection efforts onto beekeepers. Beekeepers will continue to be the turkeys at the turkey shoot. What do you do, when a half dozen applicators, in as many different locations, call and say, "We're spraying tomorrow morning; move the bees?" Run, run, run, and there is no place to run to! I believe the current statements for bee protection offer good protection for bees, by protecting them as they forage, which is sufficient protection overall. Implementation must be based on teaching pesticide applicators how to observe when bees are foraging. This is an excellent opportunity for extension. However, because many state regulators are so reluctant to implement and enforce the label directions, I believe the following clarifications in interpretation need to be made: 1. The label directions refer to all bees, not just domestic honeybees. This was already clearly recognized by placing the directions under environmental hazards, but some state regulators refuse to admit this. 2. Labels currently indicate that some pesticides are toxic only by direct contact, while others are residual. Direct contact materials can be used anytime bees are not foraging, but residual pesticides must not contaminate bloom that will remain open and continue to poison bees during the residual life of the material. This needs to be clarified. Some highly residual materials, such as Penncap M (Trademark), simply cannot be used on any bloom that is attractive to honeybees. For example, if there is clover blooming in the orchard, even though the trees are not in bloom, use of Penncap M (Trademark) would be in violation, unless means are taken to remove the clover bloom. This particular example has been the cause of loss of many hives and a lot of wild bees as well. Another common violation is to apply spring "petal fall" sprays, when petal fall is not complete, which can wipe out bees on the farm, and neighboring farms as well. One young beekeeper's business was sunk from this kind of violation, on over 300 hives, without any consequences for the grower, other than having to find a new pollination service the next year. 3. Pesticide applicators must not be allowed to circumvent label directions by beekeeper notification. It is the applicator, who choses to use a material with environmental impact and he is responsible to protect the environmental resources, by complying with the label. This evasion is officially condoned, and even encouraged in many states, as in the disastrous violations in North Carolina we mentioned. Last year NC melon growers were doing a lot of scrounging to find sufficient bees; wait til they see the difference from the further losses of wild pollinators due to drenching the eastern half of the state with poison while bees were out working! If you are concerned about wild pollinators, you'd better speak up. And if you are a beekeeper who is tired of poverty, because your neighbors keep poisoning your livestock, you might do so, too! Fruit and Vegetable Growers? Gardeners? Do you need pollination? Dr. Sanford says, <> Pollinator@aol.com Dave Green, PO Box 1200, Hemingway, SC 29554 (Dave & Jan's Pollination Service, Pot o'Gold Honey Co.) Practical Pollination Home Page Dave & Janice Green http://users.aol.com/pollinator/polpage1.html Jan's Sweetness and Light Varietal Honeys and Gift Sets http://users.aol.com/SweetnessL/sweetlit.htm ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Dec 1996 10:22:05 -0800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Roy Nettlebeck Subject: Re: Ventilation: How much is enough? In-Reply-To: <9611238513.AA851389164@cscuuxch.dayton.csc.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Mon, 23 Dec 1996, Mark D. Egloff wrote: > Gentlepeople: > > As I was looking at all the miscellaneous holes and other areas > which provide both emergency exits and ventilation, I > remembered reading, I believe in one of Brother Adams books, an > admonition about having "draughts". I began to wonder if there > was any real data regarding the size and quantity of air that > the bees move through the hive during the winter. > > Have there been any studies published regarding how much > "ventilation" should one try use without causing the hive to > become drafty? (Do the Bees really care? Or Does it really > matter?) I know that there is a whole body of literature > regarding ventilation of indoor wintering quarters, but that is > not what I am interested in. > > In several of my hives I have modified the innercovers to allow > more ventilation which seems to help keep them dry, but when is > "to much of a good thing"? > Hi David, I'm glad your back. Don't worry about the sharks, they have no teeth.They wont be doing the judging anyway. This year I'm trying some new intercovers with isulation (r 5) over them,with a miratory top. I'm in the R & D phase. They do get the moisture out with a 1 1/2 inch slot at the front and back of the intercover. I put baffles in the intercover to slow down the air flow. The intercover has two 3 inch holes in the middle or the cover to let the heat and moisture a place to go.The trick is keeping in some of the heat. I have read many times, the bees do NOT try to keep the inside of the hive warm. I will go with that, but we need to make it easy for them to move around in the hive to get to the honey. I have another model with a condensing chamber , that will run the water out and keep the heat in. Remmember that the water will condense in the coolest part of the cover. The mfr. of this unit is not easy enough so far. We have new snow on the ground this morning and about 30 F.We may get a little winter after all. I do think that it is about our turn for a winter.Here in Washington State ( western part ) we do not get extreemly cold. We do get wet. So moisture is our real problem. Have a Happy New Year Roy ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Dec 1996 20:31:46 -0000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Dominic Krzysiak Subject: Bee Tone Analyzer MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Can any body help? In the American Bee Journal dated Sept 95 there was an article called Using Acoustic Technology to Monitor Your Hives by Ing O. Vancata from Sweden. It goes on to describe a modern equivalent of Eddie Woods Apidictor for the prediction of swarms. Having used the Apidictor with Eddie as a young boy, I would very much like to build or otherwise obtain this new Bee Tone Analyzer (BTA) . I have written to Mr Vancata requesting more details but without success. So if anyone knows anything on the subject or if Mr. Vancata would like to get in touch I would be very grateful. Thanks Dominic Krzysiak (England) D.KRZYSIAK@BTINTERNET.COM ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Dec 1996 14:27:53 -0600 Reply-To: bbirkey@interaccess.com Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Barry Birkey Organization: Birkey.Com Subject: addresses MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Can anyone let me know if the following addresses of suppliers are correct or if they are even still in business? Also if you know the phone numbers. Thanks. -Barry BOBERT LEE (bee supplies) LIMITED Beehive Works High Street, Cowley Uxbridge, Middlesex UB8 2BB England ARTB INC. C.P. Parc Industrial Route Kennedy St. Joseph Beauce, Quebec GOS 2VO Canada Ph: In Canada 800-463-8921 COOK'S BEE SUPPLIES, LTD. 91 Edward St. Aurora, Ontario L4G 1W1 Canada F.W. JONES & SON, LTD. 44 Dutch St. Bedford, Quebec L0L 1A0 Canada -- Barry Birkey West Chicago, Illinois USA bbirkey@interaccess.com http://www.birkey.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Dec 1996 15:07:37 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jerry J Bromenshenk Subject: Re: Ventilation: How much is enough? In-Reply-To: from "Roy Nettlebeck" at Dec 26, 96 10:22:05 am MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi: Moisture is a problem most everywhere. We notice a big difference during the growing season in Seattle, WA or Aberdeen, MD compared to western Montana, which is more humid than eastern MT or WA. In the winter, the inside of the hive can get really wet in the coastal locations. But even in Montana, confined hives condense a lot of moisture. Have you ever tried camping overnight in a tent that doesn't "breathe?". We generally use some type of inner cover or top entrance to provide some head room and a bit of ventilation. We narrow down the bottom entrances to keep out mice and stop the wind. . One of our problems is wind. A stiff breeze causes a wind chill that even the bees have trouble handling, so we try to avoid the chimney effect. A bit of dark roofing felt around the hive or at least on top may help warm the inside a bit on sunny days (a rarity in Missoula in the winter). This could be wishful thinking, but most of our beekeepers think it helps the cluster break and move on a sunny day. Very few of our folks use insulation under the cover. Years ago, some packed in straw but found that during the January thaw and February freeze cycle, the straw turned into a block of ice. We do pull our hives together so that one shields the other from the wind. Often the whole group gets a single wrap - but not too tight or the moisture builds up too much. Where we get lots of snow, the hives are buried most of the winter. I wonder whether insulation does any good for hives packed in nature's igloo. Maybe Allen can tell us if anyone has ever measured core temperatures in colonies with and without the insulating pillows? Anyway, white Christmas in Missoula. We had 28" since Thanksgiving, got 14" over Christmas day, and it is still coming down. Cross-country skiers and folks with sleds out all over town and on the campus. Just saw a family ski by my office window. Mild temperatures (about 10 degrees F). Highways and main streets have had at least a single pass with the snowplow. On the side streets, you had better be driving something with ground clearance. Despite commonly held opinions, this is a bit more snow than we usually get in Western Montana. Fairly common in central or eastern parts of the state. Hardly worth comment by our northern friends. Best Wishes for the Holidays and New Year. Jerry Bromenshenk The University of Montana-Missoula jjbmail@selway.umt.edu http://grizzly.umt.edu/biology/bees ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Dec 1996 16:32:29 -0800 Reply-To: alwine@dreamcom.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Al Needham Subject: Re: *Ventilation: How much is enough? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Allen Dick wrote: > > Of course window screen does actually break the wind much more than > most people realise). A very interesting discourse. I zeroed in on the above as I have a bunch of window screens under my house in great shape that I salvaged from the "Town Dump" this summer. So...guess what? I am going to rig them up to "cut down on the wind" even though my two hives are fairly well sheltered from the tough Northeasters that rip in from the ocean about a five minute walk from my home. Between my garage and these screen rigs - it should work out well! In 1978 one of these *rippers* demolished all kinds of property in my harbor town. As an aside I walked down to the beach the day after (a beautiful sunny day) and as I gazed down the beach at houseless foundations I saw one that had a complete "toilet" sitting forlornly by itself on what was originally the first floor. Nobody was sitting on it :). Al -- * Have A Happy And Relaxing Holiday Season * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Al Needham,Scituate,MA,USA ** alwine@dreamcom.net * * >"The HoneyBee"-An Educational Software Program V1.0< * * Available from Sweden at: Http://www.kuai.se/~beeman/ * * Visit this site for close-up photos of Honey Bees at * * work and see how Honey is processed. * * " Version 2.0 coming in '97'.....stay tuned in! " * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Dec 1996 17:41:13 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Gerry Visel Subject: Re: LOCATION OF SENDER On Wed, 25 Dec 1996 18:53:01 -0500 Janet Montgomery & Dan Veilleux writes: >(snip) > --One has to apply a good deal of " english " to adapt it to each >location. In order to do this we must know where the writer >hails from. >I WOULD LIKE TO RESPECTIVELY REQUEST THAT WE AT LEAST IDENTIFY WHERE >WE ARE FROM BECAUSE California, Georgia, Alberta or Ohio are beekeeping >worlds apart. All areas have somthing to offer, that's why we are on this >list and why I really enjoy it so much. > Dan and Jan, Those places may seem "worlds apart," but they are really only "states apart" (or will be once we incorporate Alberta(!) ;-) Your point is well taken, the members of this list do represent the whole world, and beekeeping is often a very local thing. (We need to remember to add "USA" to our addresses now!) I do enjoy the input from the "worlds apart," however, and learn a lot. This exchange between very different environments and cultures helps us all to grow! Happy holidays to all! Gerry and the other Visels at Visel7@juno.com Winnebago, Illinois, USA ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Dec 1996 18:25:20 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Carl H. Powell" Subject: Propolis info postage * Originally By: Int:dronebee@norfolk.infi * Originally To: Watchman * Originally Re: Propolis info postage * Original Date: 12-23-96 09:21 * Original Area: E-mail * Forwarded by : Blue Wave/386 v2.20 bee-l@cnsibm.albany.edu wrote: > > Hello, Everyone, > > Sorry that it's taken me so long to reply, but my lack of time, the time of > year and a not-so-good Net provider makes it difficult for me to respond > quickly. > > To clarify, for all, the cost of the propolis document; the document itself > costs $1.00 US. As far as postage goes, for those in the US it's $0.55, for > those in Canada postage is $0.95 US, and for all other folks in other > countries it will cost you $2.20 US. > > If these costs are not a factor for you, you may send a check or money order > to 150 Dorothy Drive, McKinney, Texas 75069. > > If you absolutely can't pay the costs, unfortunately, you'll have to wait > until I can figure out how to possibly get it on the Net. However, it may > take a while. > > Everyone have a good holiday season! > > Cheers, > > Mike Wallace > Sar Shalom Apiary > McKinney, Texas USA > "God bless you!" Dear Mike: If time is what you don't have, send the document to me (mailing address below) and I'll type it and send it to Bee-L which in turn will send it to all Bee-L subscribers. If that is agreable with you, here is my postal address: Dr. Pedro P. Rodriguez 2133 Wolfsnare Road Virginia Beach, Virginia 23454 Best of wishes for the holiday season. Pedro ... "Witches Parking Space: Offenders will be toad". ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Dec 1996 16:55:48 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Donald Aitken Subject: Re: *Ventilation: How much is enough? Comments: To: Al Needham In-Reply-To: <32C3191D.3CF2@dreamcom.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On the prairies we experience generally cold conditions for about five months. The relative humidity is moderately high, since air at low temperatures cannot hold much moisture. Most of the water in the hives in winter comes from the bees themselves. My wintering technique seems to deal with these conditions fairly well, but may involve more time than a serious commercial beekeeper could afford. First, I use a year-round insulated inner cover. The cover consists of a plywood box 16.25" wide, 20" long and 1" deep. A piece of styrofoam is cut to fit snugly inside. The box is covered top and bottom with .25" plywood. A rim .25" thick and .75" wide is applied both top and bottom and a section of the rim about 2" long is cut out for an upper entrance. The styrofoam acts as its own vapour barrier. In the winter I use the cover with the upper entrance and in the summer I turn it over so that the bees must use the lower entrance. Second, I arrange my hives in groups of 5 in a row on two rails made of 2x8 lumber 10' long. In summer the hives are slid apart and in winter they are slid back together. I place a 1" piece of styrofoam at each end and hold the whole thing together with two 8' pieces of redi-rod through plywood pressure plates at each end. Third, I place a 24" wide by 83" piece of styrofoam at the back of the hive and hold it there with 6 large wedges between it and the redi-rod. Another piece of styrofoam 19" wide by 83" long goes on the front and is held on with wedges as well. Fourth, I cover the whole thing with a piece of plywood which has a 1X6 nailed on the back to prevent wind blowing through. I hold the lid on with some rocks; the 1X6 keeps it from sliding forward. Naturally the entrances are to the south, and fortunately the winds here are from the north. Finally, the lower entrances are shut almost completely. I leave a .25" by .75" opening to let water drain out. The rails are arranged to tilt the hives slightly forward. Closing the bottoms serves also to keep mice out. I have had quite good success with these wintering methods over a 15 year period. Thicker styrofoam does not improve things much. Each yard, of course, has 1,2,3 or 4 orphans in the fall. I have been leaving these to their own devices and find that in good winters the uninsulated ( except for the inner covers ) hives survive fairly well. Last year we had a particularly savage winter and the uninsulated ones all died. Henceforth I will make an effort to collect these odd ones and insulate them. Donald Aitken 11710-129 Street Edmonton Alberta Canada T5M 0Y7 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Dec 1996 23:46:45 +0100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Gunnar Thygesen Organization: Micro Computer User Group Subject: Ventilation: How much is enough? In-Reply-To: Pine.SUN.3.95.961226093535.23640A-100000@linknet.kitsap.lib.wa.us From: gunnar@mcug.ping.dk (Gunnar Thygesen) 26-Dec-96, From: Roy Nettlebeck r> Subject: Re: Ventilation: How much is enough? r> On Mon, 23 Dec 1996, Mark D. Egloff wrote: >> Gentlepeople: >> > As I was looking at all the miscellaneous holes and other areas >> which provide both emergency exits and ventilation, I >> remembered reading, I believe in one of Brother Adams books, an >> admonition about having "draughts". I began to wonder if there >> was any real data regarding the size and quantity of air that >> the bees move through the hive during the winter. r> > >> Have there been any studies published regarding how much >> "ventilation" should one try use without causing the hive to >> become drafty? (Do the Bees really care? Or Does it really >> matter?) I know that there is a whole body of literature >> regarding ventilation of indoor wintering quarters, but that is >> not what I am interested in. r> > >> In several of my hives I have modified the innercovers to allow >> more ventilation which seems to help keep them dry, but when is >> "to much of a good thing"? r> > r> Hi David, I'm glad your back. Don't worry about the sharks, they r> have no teeth.They wont be doing the judging anyway. r> This year I'm trying some new intercovers with isulation (r 5) over r> them,with a miratory top. I'm in the R & D phase. They do get the moisture r> out with a 1 1/2 inch slot at the front and back of the intercover. I put r> baffles in the intercover to slow down the air flow. The intercover has r> two 3 inch holes in the middle or the cover to let the heat and moisture a r> place to go.The trick is keeping in some of the heat. I have read many r> times, the bees do NOT try to keep the inside of the hive warm. I will go r> with that, but we need to make it easy for them to move around in the hive r> to get to the honey. r> I have another model with a condensing chamber , that will run the water r> out and keep the heat in. Remmember that the water will condense in the r> coolest part of the cover. The mfr. of this unit is not easy enough so r> far. r> We have new snow on the ground this morning and about 30 F.We may get a r> little winter after all. I do think that it is about our turn for a r> winter.Here in Washington State ( western part ) we do not get extreemly r> cold. We do get wet. So moisture is our real problem. r> Have a Happy New Year r> Roy Dear all of you, I believe that the climate in Washington State (western part) is rather close to our climate in Denmark i.e. costal clima, windy, high humidity and temperature around freezing point during most of the winter and then sometimes we get easterly wind bringing us temperatures down to minus 10 -15 degrees centigrade and lower. And how do my bees survive in my bottomless hives. Bottomless, yes seen from a climatic point of view. Actually very well. The bottom is frame of our standard lath 56 * 38 mm. The front one cut to 56 * 30 mm in order to make the flight entrance. Underneath the frame is nailed wire mesh with openings around 3 * 3 mm in order to keep the mice out and the bees in. Underneath the front and the back part is nailed in the full width the same type of wood i.e. 56 * 38 mm. That all. The hives are dry, and the bees are not suffocated if the flight entrance is blocked by snow as there is air enough through the snow and up through the wire mesh. No upper ventilation but a cover with 25 mm insulation of rock wool. In the summer time you will see no bees ventilating in the flight entrance, and if you are a migrating beekeeper then close the flight entrance and move. When you after a minute or so after the transportation open up the flight entrance you will see a bee maybe two come out then a few more, and then of course more and more, but there is no boiling up. But what about colder climate? The same type of bottoms are used in Sweden and Norway in the mountains. In our cold winter with temperatures down to minus 25 degrees centigrade for weeks my bees were in fine shape in the spring. Kinds regards Gunnar --- Terminate 4.00/Pro -- | Internet: gunnar@mcug.ping.dk (Fidonet: Gunnar Thygesen 2:235/15.32) | Micro Computer User Group (MCUG) ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 27 Dec 1996 11:47:01 +1000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Chris Allen Subject: Re: BIRDS Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >>... I think you may have a few crossed wires. >>This list is normally about beekping bees rather than raising birds. > >Come on Chris... a bit of computer/practical/biology knowlegde once in a >while does not hurt. I did not mean to offend any one. I'm sorry if I did but them main point is that questions about raising birds would be better answered in a mailing list dedicated to raising birds. I regret that I did not make this point clear in my original message. Notice that there was not a big response to the original question about the birds. I believe the question has been posted again and still there is little response. This suggests that few people this list know the answer. If the question were posted on a list about raising birds (particularly that breed of birds) then there would be no end to the advice offered by other subscribers. If I have a question about sailing, cats, goats or cows, I would expect to get an better answer from a mailing list dedicated to sailing, cats, goats or cows. There has been some discussion lately on this list about carpentry, painting and computers. In each case the discussion related to how these tools help us look after bees or learn more about bees. As such it is fair enough for inclusion on the bee list. If the discussion started to wander away from beekeeping eg. the relative merits of spread sheets and word processors, then it would have been appropriated ask the participants to choose another forum. This nearly happened a few weeks ago when the creationists and evolutionists got the knives out. Maybe they have moved to another list and are happily hurling abuse and insults at each other. If you like that sort of thing go over and join them (where ever they are) but don't bring them back here. Returning to the original question about the birds, let me re-phrase the question. "Does any one know of a mailing list dedicated to raising birds? I have a serious problem with some birds dying and need help." Regards Chris Allen ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Dec 1996 20:49:59 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Alden P. Marshall" Subject: Re: Ventilation: How much is enough? On Thu, 26 Dec 1996 15:07:37 -0700 Jerry J Bromenshenk writes: >Hi: > >Moisture is a problem most everywhere. We notice a big difference >during the growing season in Seattle, WA or Aberdeen, MD compared to >western Montana, which is more humid than eastern MT or WA. > >In the winter, the inside of the hive can get really wet in the >coastal >locations. But even in Montana, confined hives condense a lot of >moisture. Have you ever tried camping overnight in a tent that >doesn't >"breathe?". > >We generally use some type of inner cover or top entrance to provide >some >head room and a bit of ventilation. We narrow down the bottom >entrances >to keep out mice and stop the wind. >. >One of our problems is wind. A stiff breeze causes a wind chill that >even >the bees have trouble handling, so we try to avoid the chimney effect. > A >bit of dark roofing felt around the hive or at least on top may help >warm >the inside a bit on sunny days (a rarity in Missoula in the winter). >This >could be wishful thinking, but most of our beekeepers think it helps >the >cluster break and move on a sunny day. > >Very few of our folks use insulation under the cover. Years ago, some >packed in straw but found that during the January thaw and February >freeze >cycle, the straw turned into a block of ice. > >We do pull our hives together so that one shields the other from the >wind. >Often the whole group gets a single wrap - but not too tight or the >moisture builds up too much. > >Where we get lots of snow, the hives are buried most of the winter. I >wonder whether insulation does any good for hives packed in nature's >igloo. > >Maybe Allen can tell us if anyone has ever measured core temperatures >in >colonies with and without the insulating pillows? > >Anyway, white Christmas in Missoula. We had 28" since Thanksgiving, >got >14" over Christmas day, and it is still coming down. Cross-country >skiers >and folks with sleds out all over town and on the campus. Just saw a >family ski by my office window. Mild temperatures (about 10 degrees >F). >Highways and main streets have had at least a single pass with the >snowplow. On the side streets, you had better be driving something >with >ground clearance. > >Despite commonly held opinions, this is a bit more snow than we >usually >get in Western Montana. Fairly common in central or eastern parts of >the >state. Hardly worth comment by our northern friends. > >Best Wishes for the Holidays and New Year. > >Jerry Bromenshenk >The University of Montana-Missoula >jjbmail@selway.umt.edu >http://grizzly.umt.edu/biology/bees > Just a little support to what Jerry has already said. *Moisture* A number of us here in the North East use a Cellotex (trade name) material. It is a very light and absorbant material. It is known as sound board to many in the constructiuon business. 4' x 8' sheets are cut the size of the inner cover and a couple thin strips of wood (I use discarded frame wedges) are glued and stapled to a couple edges on one side and another through the middle on the other side. This third one can be omitted if your queen excluders live with the hive all year round as mine do (on top of the inner cover after honey removal). The two strips are spacers for the outer cover to set on and the single strip prevents the mateerial from sagging and blocking the inner cover hole. With this type of absorbent / breathing insulating cover it is not necessary to provide any more of a ventilation / upper entrance larger than the conventional inner cover hole. There may be superior cover insulators but these have served me well for twenty years. I have on a number of occasions opened hives in below freezing temperatures (preferably no wind, I use bees year round for apitherapy purposes) and found soggy insulators but dry inner covers and bees. I have also seen bees clustered on the wet surface taking up moisture. Remember bees need moisture but not dripping on them. Does anyone with more than 50 colonies still haul queen excluders to and from the apiaries? Why? I hope not because Mary does. Try (what I believe to be ) the easier alternative, staying with the hive. I choose to carry a few extras with me to swap out any heavily burred or propolized to be put in the solar melter and cycled where and when needed. I enjoy many of the comment shared on this net, would like to hear more from our friends in other countries. Alden Marshall [B-Line Apiaries] ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Dec 1996 22:33:28 +0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: George_Willy Subject: Re: BEES AND BEELINING Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >George, > > I'd be interested in some of the basics if you would like to share it >here! > >Gerry Visel > >On Mon, 23 Dec 1996 22:15:16 +0500 George_Willy > writes: >>...I can explain the principals of beelinin to you taught to me be a >>wonderfull older gentleman in this neck >>of the woods. He was able to find I think 4 maybe 5 wild swarms this >>fall. >>good luck. George >> Gerry: The art of beelinin, or correctly spelled beelining, is a method of obtaining honey for the homestead for winter use, that is being lost in todays society. I have been fortunate to befriend a elderly gentleman that uses the woods as we and our children use television. We, my friend George Lund and Ferdinand Belville and I have wandered through the woods of Vermont in search of wild bees and have found many. In recient years however we find fewer due to mite infestation. My interest in this lost art is two fold. I am interested in the practice and am also interested in finding hygenic strains that may have survived the harsh winters and the mites. Here is how it works; You need to make a bee box with a seperate lid. The box itself is rectangular in shape and made of 1/2" pine. Interior dimensions are 3 1/4" wide and 7"in length and 2 3/4 " in debth. This box is now a 5 sided box with an open top. Now we have to take this space and divide it into 3 compartments. 5" from one end take another piece of 1/2" X 3 1/4 X 2 3/4 and slide it in. Just slide this in temporarily. Now you look at a box 5 sided, open on the top with a compartment of 5"x 3 1/4 X 2 3/4" on the left and a 1 5/8 x3 1/4 X 2 3/4" on the right. The smaller compartment will be covered by plexiglass set into dados 1/4" down from the top of the box. The dado can be done with a saw blade on a table saw. Before you glue and tack this together drill a small hole through the partition between the compartments 1/2" down from the top and 1" over from the right side. The hole should should be just large enough for a single bee to walk through comfortably. Now glue this partition in place and tack with a a couple of 1" finish nails through the sides. Looking at the box now you have a box divided into two compartments one larger on the left and a smaller one on the right covered with plexiglass. The partition seperating the two has a small hole in it to let a single bee pass through it. Now you need to make the third compartment and this is done on the larger of the two compartments by making small runners along both sides of the box with 1/8" x 1/2" x 5" strips glued so that the top of the runners are 1 1/4" off of the bottom of the box. Find a piece of plastic or plexiglass to slide over these runners and out through the end of the box. You will need to run the whole box through the table saw so that the saw cut comes exactly above the runners for the plastic to run through. So now you have a box with what looks like 2 compartments but the one on the left has a false bottom which can be opened by sliding the plastic bottom out through the end. Now you need to make the top which is a little larger than the box itself in width by about 1/2" and about 5" longer and made out of 1/2" pine. The extra 5" is a hand grip and has a fingernail moon cut out of both sides of just the 5 " portion. So now you have a box with three compartments and a cover with a handle that covers the entire box. Now you need to put a window in the cover. That window needs to be set into the wooden cover so that the plexiglass is flush with the top of the cover. The window should be 3"x3" square and so as to pas light through to th box down below. You will havt to chissel out a small ledge for the glass to it on. Glue it in with silicone. Now you need a piece of fabric to staple to the cover on the handle end of the cover to block out the light when necessary. Just one more thing to do chissel a little hole in the side of the box so that you can slide a flat piece of wood to cover the hole in the partition between the two main compartments. Fasten a staple to recieve the end ofthis piece of wood and to hold it in place but loose enough so you can pull the piece back and let the bees through the hole. Paint the box white outside only. In the fall amongst aster and goldenrod bees are working for whatever they can get. Hold the box in your left hand and the cover in your right (reverse if left handed) and walk slowly to find the workers. Morning just after dew is off the blossom and the sun is out is the best time. With a bee on the blossom slowly bring the box around the backside of the flower always leaving the sun unobstructed. Quickly close the cover over the top of the box and if you are lucky you now have the blossom and the bee in the large compartment of the box but you are still attached to the stem of the flower. Slowly pull the box off of the stem holding the cover tightly over the box. Pull the fabric off of the window and allow the sun to shine into the cover window. If you haven't killed the bee in your attempt she will come right to the window and walk all over it trying to get airborn. Now, if successfull, cover the window up with the fabric and sloide the cover back enough to let sun into the window of the small compartment. Pull the little stick out that it covering the hole in the partition and let as much sun beam through as possible. The bee will see the light through the small hole and enter the small compartment. Now put the stick back over the hole. Bee #1 Repeat this procedure for up to 6 bees. Now go back to your truck or car and open the lower part of the larger compartment. In this section you have placed a nice piece of comb with sugar syrup filling the cells. Do not use honey. Flavor the comb with less than 1/2 a drop of anise oil. Open the window on the cover and be sure the smaller compartment is now in the dark. Pull the stick. Let one bee out and replace the stick. The bee comes out of the hole and smells the syrup and anise and starts to feed and fill up. As soon as you notice she is on the comb we take the cover off completely and wait for her to feed. When done she will back out of the hole and shake a little and start to fly. By this time we are laying down on the road or whereever so as to follow her direction of flight. She will fly in 3 to 8 maybe more circles some clockwise ans some counterclockwise each circle gaining altitude and circumference. Take note of that direction by compass reading. You may have bee from more than one swarm. Repeat this procedure. Do not move the box. The bees that have left will be back with their buddys. I figure 5 minutes a mile 5 minutes to unload. Time for lunch and a bottle of wine maybe a nap. Keep the comb filled with nectar or syrup. In an hour or so the box may have hundreds of bees on it. You now can generally look and find what direction the bees are flying in. With 10 or 20 bees in the box cover it up and keep in the dark. hike a 1/2 mile or so and start over again. It will be quicker this time because you have started with more bees. Keep your eyes in the trees and look for the openings in the tops with clear shots to the sky. It may take you a couple of trys and days to find a colony and that colony may be your neighbors bees the next town over. I'm sure you will have questions and I will be more than happy to answer them. Happy Hollidays George The Village Inn East Burke Vt.05832 802-626-3161 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 27 Dec 1996 03:19:23 GMT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: John Taylor Subject: Re: Filtering e-mail In-Reply-To: <9612230353.AA58993@msp.masterpack.com.au> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Mon, 23 Dec 1996 13:53:51 +1000, you wrote: >>>Some one else said could also filter messages by sender's name. >>Please explain filter messages. What benefit can I get from this > >Filtering is a very handy feature. Any good e-mail package should have = it >but may use a different term for it. > >I use Eudora-Pro so I will describe it as used by that package. > Another nice program, available free to individuals, is Free Agent. It's a very nice newsreader (its primary function) and also does a super job on e-mail. Free Agent: -Allows you to create any number of folders; I use one inbox for general mail; one called BeeList; one called recipes; one called =46lightMed; one called E-Med; etc. -Select which filter in-bound mail will automatically be diverted to -Spell check -Reply to e-mail and newsgroups -encode and decode binary e-mail attachments -set up multiple signatures -address book -much, much, more If anyone is interested, I can 'coach' you, via e-mail, on setting up filters. It's available from - http://www.forteinc.com/agent -- John Taylor -- Wild Rose Creek Apiary Southeast Missouri When in danger, or in doubt, run in circles, scream and shout! ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 27 Dec 1996 04:59:46 +0000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Rick Grossman Subject: Re: Pollination Contracts..That time of year.. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Mike, You referred to doing research on pollination needs in the "usual sources". Could you clarify to myself and others what you mean by these usual sources. I would appreciate being able to do more reading on this topic. Thanks, Rick Grossman western Oregon, USA At 10:05 PM 12/23/96 +0000, you wrote: >Hello all, and a Happy Holiday Season ! > >I was wondering if anyone could give me any pointers on a matter of >pollination. I'm going from six to 10-12 hives total next year, and I >plan to exchange pollination services for a place to keep my bees. In >this particular instance, the crop is 25 acres of pumpkins. The acreage >is mostly contiguous, with 2/3 being 1/2 mile from the other 1/3. About >how many colonies of bees are needed, minimum? Assuming a good supply of >other natural sources, how many is too much? Can't seem to find specific >data on pumpkin pollination in the usual sources. Any imput here would >be extremely useful. Thanks > >Mike > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Dec 1996 20:25:47 -0900 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: RFC822 error: Incorrect or incomplete address field found and ignored. From: Jerry Fries Subject: Re: Insulation Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >In a previous posting I discribed what I call the Alaskan innercover and >how to use it. I will post it again or fax or LAND LINE at 1-907-349-6727 >it works! call and I will tell you how to use it. >Jerry Fries ><< iscussion of Bee Biology) > To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU (Multiple recipients of list BEE-L) > >< Well, its that time of year. And since all my bees died last winter I > thought I might ask the lists what the best way to insulate their hives > for the winter, since this may have been my problem. > What I was planning to do was place an empty super over (or under?) the > inner cover and fill it with something....maybe straw?....Well.that is > what I would like to know. I know they need ventilation during the > winter to get rid of moisture, and I just popped an outer cover and there > is already drops of water on the inner cover..>>. > > A friend showed me how to make an outer box of polyethylene foam blcok scuh >as used in poured concrete foundations. They are coursely dove-tailed so that >they snap in place .A band of tape around the ouside is a good secuirty >against high winds. I have made pitched roof covers with vents that allow for >constant >ventilation. Can not saymore than that they worked on some hives for two >years, and in others I had the usual losses popularly attributed to varroa >and trachael >mites. The hives are insulated but not airtight. Will send sketch on >request > >ed but not air tight which would cause condensation. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 27 Dec 1996 01:05:08 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Stuart E Grant Subject: Chicken little(was birds) Comments: To: callen@msp.masterpack.com.au Chris defines legitimate content... >There has been some discussion lately on this list about carpentry, >painting >and computers. In each case the discussion related to how these tools >help >us look after bees or learn more about bees. As such it is fair >enough for >inclusion on the bee list. If the discussion started to wander away >from >beekeeping eg. the relative merits of spread sheets and word >processors, >then it would have been appropriated ask the participants to choose >another >forum. boulder... I'm in complete agreement with Chris and join with him in suggesting that multiple requests to the list in upper case demanding information(or to cease sending information) or questions about birds are likely a case of confusion on the part of the sender. There is probably a list somewhere that would better serve these individuals and it is a service to them to so advise. Chris goes on to reveal that his is not always so clear headed... >This nearly happened a few weeks ago when the creationists and >evolutionists >got the knives out. Maybe they have moved to another list and are >happily >hurling abuse and insults at each other. If you like that sort of >thing go >over and join them (where ever they are) but don't bring them back >here. boulder... To recap. A post on bee behavior appeared on the list which, (as very often happens) attributed the phenomenon, (succeptibility to varroa I think) to evolution in a way that suggested this attribution was the only POSSIBLE explanation(and, presumably, that only by looking at it in this way could the problem be resolved). A rebuttal of this paradigm,(insofar as its being the ONLY useful paradigm), was offered by an Alaskan listmember. A somewhat patronizing rejoinder was returned by the original poster at, I believe UVic in, BC. ****** It is expected that beekeepers are at least as rational as anyone else and to that proposition this list is dedicated. It is unfortunate, IMO, that some of us appear to have succumbed to the temptation to orthodoxy that always stifles creative thought. Cramming listmembers into 'creationist' or 'evolutionist' categories and insisting they go elsewhere is the kind of politically correct , dogmatic, psychological bullying that should be anethema to a list dedicated to assisting fellow beekeepers. Open to beekeepers who consider themselves in either or neither camp, the list should be a forum where any listmember can critique or present any idea about how to better care for our charges. Those who cannot differentiate between argument to the point and ad-hominum are the problem---not IDEAS that are not in vogue. Now, I expect Chris, like other listmembers, has simply jumped to the usual conclusions about the content of the thread he is dissin'. Some of us were interested in the discussion and were sorry to see it immediatly shut down by a chorus of 'chicken-littles'. If discussion on how to handle varroa, or a critique of an idea can be SHOUTED DOWN simply because it is politically incorrect...or can only be carried on if it uses the dogmatic code of the more academic members... how can we avoid the charge that the list is unnecessarily narrow in focus? I don't mean to insult anyone(especially Chris who posted the best BIRD comment to date) but I want Bee-L to be as effective as possible---to be as open to ALL listmembers as possible. All beekeepers have something to offer us if we can keep the doors open. ...boulder ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Dec 1996 21:07:13 -0900 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jerry Fries Subject: Re: BIRDS Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Chris I dont know of a bird listing but it seems that a Pet store or a veternarians office should know. They may kow of a club or bird breeder or something. Believe it or not I sometimes jump on the phone and call area code + 555-1212 and ask for just about anything. A Zoo might be able to help direct you to the help you need. As many pet stores as there in the USA some one has to know something. My wife is a librarian,it is amazing what you can get from the "reference Librarian" Good luck , more than once I have found myself as surrogate mother to baby swallows. Grind puppy food ,mix in a blender with liquid vitamins and water to a thin paste, feed with a needleless hypodermic every two hours or more often. As soon as you can, begin to supplement with mashed meal worms.You lose a lot of sleep,suffer a lot of anxiety, have mixed success and much satisfaction. I never did find out what kind of bird but I assumed them to be parrokeets. Some one should know what the best feed is. They will probably be alright since there are only three babies. A constant supply of high quality food and water along with maybe some egg shell bits, and as little stress as possible is most likely the best you can do . Wacth the daddy bird constantly at even the tinyest bit of fatigue head for the vet immediatly. The daddy bird is the kind of father we wish we were, he will work himself to death litrally. Make sure he gets his rest. Well Best wishes, If any of us actually has to raise baby birds we may find out that daddy birds are better men than we are. Jerry Fries ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Dec 1996 21:28:31 -0900 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jerry Fries Subject: Re: Chicken little(was birds) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" My Daddy thought me the quickest way to cause an argument is to talk about politics or religion,and the quickest way to lose friends is the same. I dont know about the rest of you but I dont have so many friends that I can afford to any. I will refrain from those two topics out of resect for my friends, and I hope they will respect me as well. I hope this finds my friends well ,Jerry Fries ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 27 Dec 1996 07:40:35 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Dave Green, Eastern Pollinator Newsletter" Subject: Re: Pollination Contracts..That time of year.. Comments: To: bmn@worldnet.att.net Rick, You asked about pollination contracts and pumpkin pollination. I don't have much time now, but did want to let you know, there is a lot of pollination info on the web page below. You can also send a SASE for a copy of the contract I use. I have a couple requests on my desk now, but printer is acting up, so they'll have to wait until I can check that out. Dr. Sanford has another sample contract, available from APIS or Andy Nachbaur. Pumpkins are not hard to pollinate, because they have a lot of pollen, which makes them a preferred source. There are wild squash bees in some areas but not all, mostly depending on past history of cucurbit growth and pesticide use/misuse. Honeybees will be good pollination insurance. I'd place about one hive on 2 or 3 acres, if I were growing them. Not as much as cukes, melons, or apples, because they are easier to pollinate. General principle: Get multiple bee visits, the weight (flesh development) will be better if you maximize the number of seeds that get pollinated. That requires more than one visit. That's generally true of most fruits. Look at the apple seed-count section. Pumpkins, botanically speaking, are a fruit. Check out the pollination web page; if you have more questions, hollar, but we'll be closed for a few days. Pollinator@aol.com Dave Green, PO Box 1200, Hemingway, SC 29554 (Dave & Jan's Pollination Service, Pot o'Gold Honey Co.) Practical Pollination Home Page Dave & Janice Green http://users.aol.com/pollinator/polpage1.html Jan's Sweetness and Light Varietal Honeys and Gift Sets http://users.aol.com/SweetnessL/sweetlit.htm ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 27 Dec 1996 12:34:01 +0000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Paul Walton Subject: Re: addresses In-Reply-To: <32C2DFC9.7913@interaccess.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 In article <32C2DFC9.7913@interaccess.com>, Barry Birkey writes >Can anyone let me know if the following addresses of suppliers are correct or if >they are >even still in business? Also if you know the phone numbers. Thanks. > >-Barry > > >BOBERT LEE (bee supplies) LIMITED >Beehive Works >High Street, Cowley >Uxbridge, Middlesex UB8 2BB >England Barry, I believe that Steele & Brodie took over from Robert Lee some years ago. They are not at that address though. You can contact them at :- Steele & Brodie (1983) ltd. Beehive Works, Kilmany Road, Wormit, Newport-on-Tay, Fife Scotland DD6 8PG Tel. +44 (0)1382 541728 Fax. +44 (0)1382 543022 Email. Steele&Brodie@taynet.co.uk As far as I am aware, they have no web site yet. For beekeeping in the south, you can also contact Lin Coleman at :- Stockbridge Beekeeping Supplies Chilbolton Down Farm Stockbridge Hampshire England SO20 6BU Tel. +44 (0)1264 810916 Fax. +44 (0)1264 8110822 -- Paul Walton Email : Paul@adrem.demon.co.uk Snail : 78 Russell Road, Toddington, Bedfordshire. LU5 6QF. England Tel/Fax : +44 (0)1525 875570 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 27 Dec 1996 10:08:08 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Eric Abell Subject: Re: Insulation Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Several others have elequently suggested that without a geographic location it is difficult to offer advice. You might also be wary of advice provided by bee keepers in areas that differ from your. Eric At 12:02 AM 26/12/96 -0500, you wrote: >In a message dated 96-11-04 11:58:36 EST, you write: > ><< iscussion of Bee Biology) > To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU (Multiple recipients of list BEE-L) > >< Well, its that time of year. And since all my bees died last winter I > thought I might ask the lists what the best way to insulate their hives > for the winter, since this may have been my problem. > What I was planning to do was place an empty super over (or under?) the > inner cover and fill it with something....maybe straw?....Well.that is > what I would like to know. I know they need ventilation during the > winter to get rid of moisture, and I just popped an outer cover and there > is already drops of water on the inner cover..>>. > > A friend showed me how to make an outer box of polyethylene foam blcok scuh >as used in poured concrete foundations. They are coursely dove-tailed so that >they snap in place .A band of tape around the ouside is a good secuirty >against high winds. I have made pitched roof covers with vents that allow for >constant >ventilation. Can not saymore than that they worked on some hives for two >years, and in others I had the usual losses popularly attributed to varroa >and trachael >mites. The hives are insulated but not airtight. Will send sketch on >request > >ed but not air tight which would cause condensation. > > Eric Abell Gibbons, Alberta Canada (403) 998 3143 eabell@compusmart.ab.ca ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 27 Dec 1996 15:16:37 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Harry Sweet Subject: Paint or oil? Hi all, Folks always expect a beehive to be white. However my logical mind thinks that linseed oil is the way to go. August in California is oiling month for me, the dry wood really soaks it up. My bodies last for years and I've found no reason to paint. Natural wood is great camoflage for those who like to be low-key. Linseed oil: Awesome wood preservative Applicable over last year's treatment Allows wood to breathe more than paint Paint: Covers, but doesn't penetrate Chips Stain: Alkyd oil base (linseed) works as good as linseed for those who prefer white hives. I must say, after 2 mos on bee-l I'm really enjoying this. I hope folks aren't hesitant to to speak-up because of flamers or green users. Thank Gawd for the DELETE button. It's not rude to use it. Happy Soltice and Peace fellow beekeepers! Harry Sweet ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 27 Dec 1996 16:09:18 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Carl H. Powell" Subject: Re: LOCATION OF SENDER Hi all, Handle: Watchman @qwick.net Home: Poquoson, Va., US Apiary: Hampton, Va. both Hampton & Poquoson are on the tip of the Peninsula in SE Virginia. Assoc.: Tidewater Beekeepers Assoc. Chesapeake, Va. next to Norfolk on the south side of Hampton Roads across from the Peninsula. I hope this is good enough for finding my location. Weather so far this winter is unseasonably mild and wet. All this week we are supposed to be in the 60's to low 70's day and upper 40's at night. Watchman @qwick.net Carl Powell ... Borg C++: Compiling is futile. ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 27 Dec 1996 13:20:42 -0800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Dan Mihalyfi Organization: sccoe Subject: Re: Paint or oil? Comments: cc: Harry Sweet MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Harry Sweet wrote: > > Hi all, > Folks always expect a beehive to be white. However my logical > mind thinks that linseed oil is the way to go. Is that Boiled Linseed Oil or regular Linseed Oil?? Thanks, Dan Mihalyfi Watsonville, CA Central Coast of California ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 27 Dec 1996 12:24:07 -0900 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jerry Fries Subject: Re: Paint or oil? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Im not sure exactly what it means but in your reply about paint vs oil you mentioned most hives are white. Probably so, mine are because it just seems to fit no other reason. Let me tell you a story. about ten years ago my son and daughter were very small about 5 and 3 years old. I got a bunch of hives set up the boxes, and spray painted like crazy. The kids wanted their own hives so I said good. They wanted to paint their own boxes, that sounded like fun so I set them up and they painted with spray cans. My daughter Painted hearts through masks I made , all over her hive especially over the flight entrance. My wife Sally thought this was great fun so she painted hearts on hers also. My son? He wanted military camoflage of course. We got out some greens ,some browns and a black can of paint I painted for him mostly and we wound up with a stack of supers wonderfully camoflaged. The point? The camoflaged supers have far out performed the others in every consitently over the years. The hives with the red hearts all over and especially over the entrance did well. Oh and my plain white ones always did worst. My conclusion is that Bees dont care about color , they simplylike women and children better than men. But just incase I will paint my hives earth tones,and camoflage. Jerry Fries ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 27 Dec 1996 15:03:28 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Peter Wilson Subject: Re: Paint or oil? In-Reply-To: <32C43DAA.3B0C@santacruz.k12.ca.us> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII email: pjwilson@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca > Harry Sweet wrote: > > > > Hi all, > > Folks always expect a beehive to be white. However my logical > > mind thinks that linseed oil is the way to go. > Linseed oil is a great product. However,discarded rags soaked with linseed oil have been known to spontaneously combust. Take care where and how you dispose of linseed oil contaminated rags - don't burn down your shop. Happy New Year Peter Wilson Edmonton, Alberta ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 27 Dec 1996 17:45:21 +0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: George_Willy Subject: Re: Paint or oil? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >Hi all, >Folks always expect a beehive to be white. However my logical >mind thinks that linseed oil is the way to go. August in California >is oiling month for me, the dry wood really soaks it up. My bodies >last for years and I've found no reason to paint. Natural wood is great >camoflage for those who like to be low-key. >Linseed oil: > Awesome wood preservative > Applicable over last year's treatment > Allows wood to breathe more than paint >Paint: > Covers, but doesn't penetrate > Chips >Stain: > Alkyd oil base (linseed) works as good as linseed for those > who prefer white hives. > >I must say, after 2 mos on bee-l I'm really enjoying this. I hope folks >aren't hesitant to to speak-up because of flamers or green users. >Thank Gawd for the DELETE button. It's not rude to use it. >Happy Soltice and Peace fellow beekeepers! >Harry Sweet Harry: Do you use boiled or raw linseed oil. Sounds like a good idea. George The Village Inn of East Burke East Burke, Vt.05832 802-626-3161 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 27 Dec 1996 19:10:50 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Gerry Visel Subject: Re: Paint or oil? Jerry, This is probably a situation where your location is a driving factor. If you were down south and it was hot, white (or silver?) color would reflect better, but up north, black or dark would absorb heat better... (Neat theory, anyway...) My story was when we drove up to central Wisconson to buy some bee stuff, to a (bee supply) place surrounded by 20 single/double hives which were by far the most dilapidated old holey crates of hives I have ever seen, with or without bees. These hives were all right out in the middle of the front yard, in full sun, with no windbreaks or any other apertenances. You guessed it: Each one was just as full of (friendly!) bees as could be, coming from every hole in them, and there were stacks of supers on each! The guy didn't touch them but to add/remove the supers! (And this was after the mites came!) As was stated here, the bees read different books (or have a different BEE-L?) than we do. :-) That's what makes it a horse race, and why I keep on learning 'bout these buggers... Gerry and the other Visels at Visel7@juno.com Winnebago, Illinois, USA On Fri, 27 Dec 1996 12:24:07 -0900 Jerry Fries writes: >Im not sure exactly what it means but in your reply about paint vs oil >you >mentioned most hives are white. Probably so, mine are because it just >seems >to fit no other reason. >>>snip>>>>>>>> >The point? The camoflaged supers have far out performed >the >others in every consitently over the years. The hives with the red >hearts >all over and especially over the entrance did well. Oh and my plain >white >ones always did worst. My conclusion is that Bees dont care about >color , >they simplylike women and children better than men. But just incase I >will >paint my hives earth tones,and camoflage. > >Jerry Fries > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 27 Dec 1996 22:01:09 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Harry Sweet Subject: Re: Q: Using rough cut lumber in hive body construction? In a message dated 96-12-24 23:11:30 EST, you write: << I have never understood why many beekeepers only paint the outside. If the hives are painted inside and out they will give better service (better yet - dipped). Pollinator@aol.com Dave Green, PO Box 1200, Hemingway, SC 29554 (Dave & Jan's Pollination Service, Pot o'Gold Honey Co.) >> Why on earth would anyone paint the inside of a hive? The bees provide an excellent sealer. Harry Sweet N. California ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 27 Dec 1996 22:16:34 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Harry Sweet Subject: Re: Paint or oil? In a message dated 96-12-27 16:20:27 EST, you write: << Is that Boiled Linseed Oil or regular Linseed Oil?? Thanks, Dan Mihalyfi Watsonville, CA >> That's boiled linseed oil , cut with turpentine if necessary. Thanks to all who replied. Harry Sweet N. California -- End --