Received: from relay.internode.net (relay.internode.net [198.161.228.50]) by sysx.internode.net (NTMail 3.02.12) with ESMTP id allend for ; Wed, 29 Jan 1997 10:00:16 -0700 Received: from [169.226.1.21] by relay.internode.net (SMTPD32-3.02) id AD642F60140; Wed, 29 Jan 1997 09:40:04 -0700 Received: from CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU by CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU (IBM VM SMTP V2R3) with BSMTP id 7276; Wed, 29 Jan 97 11:51:11 EST Received: from CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU (NJE origin LISTSERV@ALBNYVM1) by CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU (LMail V1.2c/1.8c) with BSMTP id 7299; Wed, 29 Jan 1997 11:51:01 -0500 Date: Wed, 29 Jan 1997 11:50:49 -0500 From: "L-Soft list server at University at Albany (1.8c)" Subject: File: "BEE-L LOG9701A" To: "W. Allen Dick" Resent-From: Resent-Date: Wed, 29 Jan 97 09:41:34 EST Resent-To: allend@mail1.internode.net Message-Id: <17001667503479@systronix.net> ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Jan 1997 00:34:20 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "MR WILLIAM L HUGHES JR." Subject: Painting Hives It really works. I used a paint pad this spring on my new equipment and it work great. BIll Hughes Bent Holly Honey Farm Brighton, Tennessee USA << A few postings have mentioned good ways to paint or preserve hives. I've had great luck with piling my boxes high and then using a painting device called a "pad" - a 5" wide pad of fuzzy fabric with a handle, used, usually, for painting walls around door and window trim. It's smooth, wide and applies a nice, even thin coat of paint on the boxes. I suppose a roller might also be good and even wider but I don't like the spray and spatter rollers make and their paint delivery is not as good as this pad. I can do a 10 high stack of hives, all sides in aboaut 10 minutes with this pad. A great work saver and a fine project for winter months. Faith Andrews Bedford Tampa and Ivy, VA>> ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Jan 1997 12:17:22 GMT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Glyn Davies Subject: Re: Paint or oil? Buckfast hives, Klartan, Brevity etc. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 10:10 31/12/96 +0000, you wrote: >In message , Jerry Fries > writes >>Im not sure exactly what it means but in your reply about paint vs oil you >>mentioned most hives are white. Probably so, mine are because it just seems >>to fit no other reason. >Brother Adam's hives are salmon pink, I understand from his biography. > >-- >Alyn W. Ashworth >Lancashire & North-West Bee-Keepers' Association. UK. >(but I don't speak on their bee-half) > Greetings Alyn, Buckfast Hives have white brood chambers, brown supers and pink roofs. There is no point in coordinating treatment for Varroa. We tried it in Devon (we're a few years ahead of you with varroa remember). 1. Every beekeeper has a different time of convenience. 2. In Devon and probably in Lancashire there are as many non-association members that are almost impossible to contact. Our experience suggests treat as late as possible. The dangers are not so much to combat resistance as to avoid recontamination from weakened, untreated colonies. We have a milder climate than you but I had my strips in from start of October to mid November- I picked a couple of mild days but although a few colonies were clusterd they did not object to swift removal of strips with pliers. All over in seconds! I'm surprised you, nor anyone else so far, has made a comment about the illegal use of Klartan. Home made wood strips may be cheap but are guaranteed to bring about fluvalinate resistance as the actve ingredient is released in the first few days and not over two complete generations. (6 weeks). This is exactly what happened in Scicily and elsewhere in Europe. By the way I think these lengthy notes on Bee line are great. Even the ones that I find boring I can zap out of existence in milliseconds. But best of all is the great international differences in humour. You have now experienced it first hand. And as a bonus there are some (NB. SOME!) very expert people on the list who spend a lot of time sharing their knowledge quite freely which can only be good for world beekeeping. It is up to you to select the best from the rest Regards Glyn Davies Ashburton Devon UK. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Jan 1997 09:01:03 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Frank Humphrey Subject: Drones MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Here in Southeast Tennesee USA, we had temperatures in the high 60's and low 70's with lots of sun. I took that occasion to check some of my hives I found that some are not only rearing brood but actually have drones in the hive. These are not the small drones from a drone laying queen but very large normal drones. They are in hives that have queens ranging from a few month to 3 years in age. I observed the bees removing drones from the hives back in late August and normally I don't see any more until spring. All colonies appear to be healthy with plenty of stores. Has anyone seen drones in their hives at this time of year? I don't think I have a problem, it is just unusual to see drones at this time of year. Frank & Phronsie Humphrey beekeepr@cdc.net ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Jan 1997 09:23:14 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Bill Miller Subject: Re: Building Supers A few observations on building supers: 1) If you wish to be amazed, take a ruler out to your stacks of "standard" supers. I have found them to differ as much as + 1/4 inch ( a bit less than a centimeter) from the the accepted standard height dimension. I suppose this has more to do with the shrinking and swelling of the wood than it does with poor manufacturing quality control. 2) To ensure accurate box building, two tools often overlooked are a carpenter's square for the corners, and a flat surface to get the bottoms flat. You won't get good boxes by just banging them together by eye. 3) Bee space between boxes is a function of the boxes and the frames in the boxes. This discussion thread concerns boxes; has anybody looked at frame variations? W. G. Miller Gaithersburg, MD ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Jan 1997 09:52:21 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Frederick L. Hollen" Subject: Re: Drones In-Reply-To: <199701011400.JAA05041@cdc3.cdc.net>; from "Frank Humphrey" at Jan 1, 97 9:01 am According to Frank Humphrey: > es > I found that some are not only rearing brood but actually have drones in > the hive. These are not the small drones from a drone laying queen but > very large normal drones. . > Frank & Phronsie Humphrey > beekeepr@cdc.net > Hello - In my previous post from Virginia about finding brood I didn't mention that I, too, found a few perfectly normal drones in the hives. I have been feeding 2/1 sugar syrup thru gallon jars in empty supers on top of the hive. Would this incoming nutrient source influence brood rearing? I'll need to continue this feeding in several hives -- what about it? Happy New Year (mite-free) to all! Regards, Fred ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Jan 1997 09:46:48 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: John Bruihler Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I'm a large sideliner (500+ hives) that up to this point have done everything by hand, including some pollination services. Humping hives for hours at a time by myself is becoming real old. I'm going to switch some over to migritory style this coming season and would appreciate any advice on what system to use. Here in the midwest there are two commonly used methods that I'm aware of: 1.) A pallet that incorporates 4 bases as the top of the pallet and uses a "Meyer's clip" to keep the boxes in position. 2.)The California style that uses cleated bases and covers for each individual hive and these cleats interlock the bases to the pallets and the bottom of the pallet locks the covers of the hives below. Again 4 hives to a pallet. I'm new to the net and wonder if there is a place where honey prices are listed for bulk quantities. John Bruihler Rushford MN (SE corner of the state) ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Jan 1997 12:28:58 -0600 Reply-To: dvisrael@earthlink.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Donald V Israel Subject: Re: Drones MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Frank Humphrey wrote: > > Here in Southeast Tennesee USA, we had temperatures in the high 60's and > low 70's with lots of sun. I took that occasion to check some of my hives > I found that some are not only rearing brood but actually have drones in > the hive. Yes as a matter of fact, but they are in a very weak hive. I put bees in a shallow super with pulled wax in Aug and gave them their original suoer of stores in poor honey comb. The queen moved up into the super instead of laying in the nice home i gave her to lay in. I Dont know why she laid drones. I took the bees from a hollow log that i had set up with a plexiglass panel installed so I could view them, But I did a poor job and lost the queen. I requeened but thought she was bad because I could find no brood. I requeened again and could find no brood. That is when I inspected and found brood in the honey super. There are plenty of bees(about two or three pounds) and they are bringing in pollan on warm days. I put the honey super on the bottom in hopes she will move up when the honey flow starts. I made a real mess out of this one but with the help of the bees and nature, I believe they will make it. Hobbist in North Carolina Don > Frank & Phronsie Humphrey > beekeepr@cdc.net ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Jan 1997 16:08:45 GMT Reply-To: Tim_Sterrett@westtown.edu Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Tim Sterrett Organization: Westtown School Subject: Bee Candy I am looking for directions on how to make the candy for a board candy. Can anyone help? Here is what I do to make bee candy: Bee Candy Tim Sterrett 1996 I use an electric saucepan set to whatever is really 240 degrees F. (Use a candy thermometer.) (I set the saucepan to 325 degrees which seems to heat the mix to 240 degrees.) 1/2 bag of sugar ( about 2 1/2 pounds) 1/2 bottle of Karo Syrup (just below the line under the word Karo) Heat one minute in microwave to make pouring faster. 2/3 cup of water (heat water in emptied Karo bottle to get last Karo out) One minute in microwave. Stir before heating or the mixture will burn. Cook 10 minutes (Set a timer for 10 minutes) Let sit for 5 minutes. (Set timer.) Stir for 30 seconds. (Don't stir too soon or mix will foam up.) Pour into white plastic 5-quart ice cream pail. Makes round cake of sugar candy about 2 inches by 8 inches. (Don't need to spray with PAM to get cake out again.) Ice cream pails are on on newspaper on porch. Two pails is enough. First cake is cool enough to take out of pail when third cake is ready to be poured into pail. Wrap finished cake in plastic wrap so cakes can be separated and handled. Take wrap off before putting cake on hive. (Plastic wrap gets in the way of the second cake put on the bees.) Remember that the cooking mixture is HOT, much hotter and stickier than boiling water. Tim Tim Sterrett Westtown, (Southeastern) Pennsylvania, USA tim_sterrett@westtown.edu ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Jan 1997 12:35:02 -0600 Reply-To: dvisrael@earthlink.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Donald V Israel Subject: Re: Building Supers MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Bill Miller wrote: > > 2) To ensure accurate box building, two tools often overlooked are a > carpenter's square for the corners, and a flat surface to get the bottoms > flat. You won't get good boxes by just banging them together by eye. Ok. I agree. I try to get the boxes to sit flat on a flat surface before I nail them but most rock after the nails are put in. How can I stop it? Maybe glue and clamps and nails later? Don in NC > W. G. Miller > Gaithersburg, MD ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Jan 1997 12:38:29 -0600 Reply-To: dvisrael@earthlink.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Donald V Israel Subject: Re: Drones MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Frederick L. Hollen wrote: > > According to Frank Humphrey: > > > es > > I found that some are not only rearing brood but actually have drones in > > the hive. These are not the small drones from a drone laying queen but > > very large normal drones. . > > Frank & Phronsie Humphrey > > beekeepr@cdc.net > > Happy New Year (mite-free) to all! > ^HOW?^ Don NC > Fred ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Jan 1997 12:54:31 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Frank Humphrey Subject: Re: Drones MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ---------- > > > I have been feeding 2/1 sugar syrup thru gallon jars in empty > supers on top of the hive. Would this incoming nutrient source > influence brood rearing? I'll need to continue this feeding in > several hives -- what about it? > > Happy New Year (mite-free) to all! > > Regards, > > Fred I have not fed since early November, but they are well provisioned and the colonies are very strong. Frank & Phronsie Humphrey beekeepr@cdc.net ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Jan 1997 15:22:17 -0800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Roy Nettlebeck Subject: Re: Roundup/roadsides In-Reply-To: <199612310636.BAA12395@iwaynet.iwaynet.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Tue, 31 Dec 1996, Janet Montgomery & Dan Veilleux wrote: > I seriously doubt that the whole roadside will be sprayed as Roundup is a > general vegetation killer and would open the roadside to severe erosion -- I > suspect that the roundup will be used around guard rails, traffic signs and > the like to ease mowing and trimming labor. > I agree that roadsides can provide the only forage in some areas as I keep > my bees in a heavily farmed corn/soybean cropping system.. Of greater > concern would be 24d spraying that would remove the broadleaved plants from > the roadsides. > Dan Veilleux Columbus , Ohio USA > Hi , I'm in Washington State USA and they do spray all along the roadways. Not Just gaurd rails. The plants and grass turns brown and drys up so we have a fire hazard beside the road. Go figure. We have to post on our property ( No Spraying ) to keep them from spraying our roadside property. I have to go with Andy on what the State will spray in the future. When the door is open it is very hard to keep it just to roundup.When they can buy something at 25% the price to do the same thing , they will change a couple words in the law to save some money , so they can spend it on one of there own favorite projects. We have had the State spraying State forest land to kill off all broad leaf plants , so the fir trees that they planted will not get competition to grow.We are talking of over 300 acers at a time by plane.First the roadsides , then the forests and then a little will get into the streams.No problem now , with the info that we have NOW. PCb's were used all around the world up to 1979.They were safe up until the time a town in Japan had a high level of cancer and birth defects. They were using pcb oil to cook with.Then we did some very deep research and found out that we had to cut it out completly. It was used in our electrical transformers and all rubber goods to increase there life.A lot of people have given up there lives for longer lasting rubber.The EPA has a 5,000 page book on PCB's and how to get rid of them. The above should bring out a couple of questions in all of our minds. First , how fast should we go in using a new product.How much testing is enough?Thats a tough one.All life forms are not the same. Even like honeybees, we can see a difference in behavior because of the genetics of a certain bee.Some bees can tolerate more chemicals or certain chemicals than other bees. Just like the essential oils that are being tride now to combat the mites.Our researchers are working on how safe it is to the bees and honey. I have been told by a researcher that some level will be toxic to the bee. What other problems could come out of the use of the oils. I do feel good about the oils , but that means nothing. It is the tests that have to be done to prove out the use of the product. Roundup has had plenty of tests by the sound of some of the posts. Even if it is safe to the bees , we should not open up the spout and start killing some of our wildflowers.We need a healthy Earth and it is up to us to make it happen.You can win a battle and loose the war.This war of saving the Earth from us has a long way to go.I hope we can all work together and bringing up the use of roundup on this list is very positive.We do need to talk to each other and spread out the info that we do have on chemicals. Best Regards Roy ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Jan 1997 16:00:44 -0800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Marcia Sinclair Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Greetings from the soggy, icey, snowy, windy Pacific Northwest. I and my neighbors emerged this afternoon to gather downed branches, patch roofs and check beehives. Today's temperature felt balmy. While rising air temperatures are melting our mountain snow pack and causing widespread flooding along rivers and streams, thankfully, I am one of the fortunate Oregon residents to have avoided any serious damage from ice, wind, or floods thus far. The warmer temps gave me an opportunity to check on my two hives. When I moved to this five-acre farm in July, I located them in a spot that seemed fairly ideal--southeast exposure but sheltered from east winds that roar through the Columbia River Gorge in winter, shaded during late afternoon sun by a large barn, access to a small agricultural valley. I placed them on concrete blocks that sat on gravel. However, this is moist property in a state that received nearly twice its normal rainfall. Their gravel base is water logged. Today's inspection reveiled some mold on a number of the frames in the bottom supers and piles of bodies on the bottom board. I've relocated them several feet to the west inside a horse stall (no horses). I cleaned both bottom boards and took out frames that looked nasty. I am hoping any stragglers will find their way to their new location, but expect to search for a huddled band of adventurers tonight and pop them back inside the hives. I think their situation is much improved, but I would like to know about further feeding. I've used both inverted jars of syrup and interior trough type feeders, but given this year's extreme wetness and the problems it is causing inside my hives, I'm thinking I'd do better with dry sugar. Can any of you advise me on how best to provide this? I could mix patties of shortening and granulated sugar but I've read somewhere that beekeepers sometimes provide granulated sugar alone. What can you tell a rubber-booted neophyte about appropriate bee-dining during monsoons? Marcia Sinclair Gresham, Oregon wordland@mail.aracnet.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Jan 1997 14:10:10 +1100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Nick Wallingford Subject: Re: Feeding hive MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT > patties of shortening and granulated sugar but I've read somewhere that > beekeepers sometimes provide granulated sugar alone. What can you tell a Though you can feed dry sugar to good effect, for this situation I'd avoid it. Dry sugar feeding has the advantages of easy, little or no extra gear, clean, no spilled syrup to cause robbing, little/no stimulation of the queen's egg laying. But it is at a cost. The bees to handle it must liquify it themselves, then evaporate off the excess again - there is an energy conversion factor which means for any given quantity of sugar, feeding it dry will result in less stores overall. Murray Reid, one of NZ's bee advisory officers who reads this list, wrote a good article on this some years back - I'll see if I can find it. But for your situation, Marcia, I'd feed with as heavy a sugar syrup as I could make (just at the point of maximum saturation) (knowing that this will probably cause some responses from the others on the list!!!) How to feed? Personal preference plays a lot in it. As it isn't extreme cold you're dealing with, it doesn't matter so much, so either over the broodnest with jar, Boardman feeder at entrance, division board feeder or over the top type feeder - machts nichts! (\ Nick Wallingford {|||8- home nickw@wave.co.nz (/ work nw1@boppoly.ac.nz NZ Beekeeping http://www.wave.co.nz/pages/nickw/nzbkpg.htm ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Jan 1997 19:19:27 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Kirk Jones Subject: info request for pallet set-up Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >I'm a large sideliner (500+ hives) that up to this point have done >everything by hand, including some pollination services. Humping hives for >hours at a time by myself is becoming real old. I'm going to switch some >over to migritory style this coming season and would appreciate any advice >on what system to use. Here in the midwest there are two commonly used >methods that I'm aware of: > 1.) A pallet that incorporates 4 bases as the top of the pallet and >uses a "Meyer's clip" to keep the boxes in position. We use the 4-way pallets here in Northern Mich. in USA, built of treated lumber that incorporate a built in bottom board with a 3/4 in opening. We have made a decision to use telescoping covers(most use flat wood covers that allow the hives to be closer together to fit on the "Meyers clips";the clips are shaped like a "W" and hold two hives together;a total of 4 clips are required per pallet). Because the standard clip didn't allow space between the hives for telescoping covers, we had Meyers custom make us a "U" shaped clip that allows us to space the hives futher apart to fit the covers on. There are negative points in that 8 clips are required, 2 per hive, the pallets are a bit larger and take more space on a truck. The up side is the hives get more protection from the elements. We leave most up north and take some to Florida to make up winter loss now(first year). >I'm new to the net and wonder if there is a place where honey prices are >listed for bulk quantities. Andy (beenet?) has listed prices periodically. We have been getting about >.95/lb US. for our white honey. >John Bruihler >Rushford MN (SE corner of the state) Kind regards *Kirk Jones/ Sleeping Bear Apiaries /971 S. Pioneer Rd./Beulah,MI 49617 *Sharon Jones/ BeeDazzled Candleworks /6289 River Rd./ Benzonia, MI 49616 e-mail b-man@aliens.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Jan 1997 00:41:24 -0800 Reply-To: apis@splicenet.com.br Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: JOSE' MARIA DIAS Organization: COMPANHIA DAS ABELHAS Subject: DOES BEE SPLEEP? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I do wish all Bee-L members have a sweet 97! Always I speak on bee, specially for kids, they asked me: "Does bee sleep?" and sincerely I answered I was not sure about it. I'd like to hear the background on it, of yours. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Jan 1997 21:09:14 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Doug Henry Subject: Hive Inspection MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII The temp here has warmed up to -10 degrees celcius today after being down in the -30s for the past several weeks. I put on my snowshoes and went out to check the hives. There are four of them in a cluster, each two supers high on pallets. I could have walked right over them except the wind has carved out the snow around the hives so its only one super high in the immediate area. I noticed 15-20 dead bees out front. Why they would come out in such cold is a mystery to me. All bottom entrances are sealed with snow. The top opening on each hive was built up with frozen condensation, a sure sign the bees are still alive. I broke all the ice away, made sure the openings were clear and then left them with another three months of winter to endure. Their ability to survive under these climatic conditions is quite amazing. They have been shut inside now since the middle of October. Doug Henry Lockport, Manitoba ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Jan 1997 20:30:44 -0600 Reply-To: allend@internode.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Allen Dick Organization: The Beekeepers Subject: Re: Feeding hive MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT > But for your situation, Marcia, I'd feed with as heavy a sugar syrup > as I could make (just at the point of maximum saturation) (knowing > that this will probably cause some responses from the others on the > list!!!) Well said! Regards Allen W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper VE6CFK RR#1, Swalwell, Alberta Canada T0M 1Y0 Internet:dicka@cuug.ab.ca & allend@internode.net Honey. Bees, & Art ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Jan 1997 23:45:39 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Alden P. Marshall" Subject: Re: Drones On Wed, 1 Jan 1997 09:01:03 -0500 Frank Humphrey writes: >drones in their hives at this time of year? I don't think I have a >problem, it is just unusual to see drones at this time of year. >Frank & Phronsie Humphrey >beekeepr@cdc.net > Hi, Yes, I have seen more drones this time of year than any time I can recall in ther past 20 (my experience in beekeeping). I suspect it relates to the streingth and surplus in the colony. I do see dead drones at the entrance on a weekkly basis so the are still reducing the population. I am providing no extra provisions. This beekeeping is a new venture every year in one way or another. Alden Marshall [B-Line Apiaries Hudson, NH BusyBee9@juno.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Jan 1997 23:45:40 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Alden P. Marshall" Subject: Re: Pollination via J. Bruihler On Wed, 1 Jan 1997 09:46:48 -0600 John Bruihler writes: >I'm a large sideliner (500+ hives) that up to this point have done >everything by hand, including some pollination services. Humping hives >for >hours at a time by myself is becoming real old. I'm going to switch >some >over to migritory style this coming season and would appreciate any >advice >on what system to use. Here in the midwest there are two commonly used >methods that I'm aware of: > >John Bruihler >Rushford MN (SE corner of the state) > Hi, Our local club has what we call a pollination pool, members who want to pollinate put our hives together, mostly for apples. Being needed for only a couple of weeks means thy are put on pallets and shortly there after removed. None of us like working colonies on pallets the whole season. We build our own pallets, will hold 4 hives w/tele covers. 4 eye bolt are inserted in slat beams , 2 on each side. we strap down hives in pairs w/1 ratchet buckle strap. This makes it easy and quick and a snap to get into for any reason while on site. We have been able to purchase these straps for a rediculously low cost, ~$3.00. We have our own designed bottom boards that I have yet to see improved upon. They are actually mini skids, 2" x 4" rails dadoed 3/4" deep to take the bottom board and a strip is put on top to provide the blockage opposite the entrance. Each end of the rail has a small 45 deg. cut on the bottom edge to ease sliding . For the bottom plate I have been using texture 111 with smooth side up. Have yet to find a more durable material. Plenty of room to grab under front and back of these. We don't have a fork lift so we load the pallets on the trailer bed. An electric winch and cable mechanism can drag the pallets fore or aft just by moving an anchor pulley. I think for a 1 man operation a powered dolly device would be a great asset. There was one pictured on front of one of the journals awhile back. Does anyone where literature can be obtained on these? Hope this info will generate some ideas for you. Alden Marshall [B-Line Apiaries Hudson, NH BusyBee9@juno.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Jan 1997 00:38:26 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Carl H. Powell" Subject: Re: Paint or oil? Hi all and Happy New Year, . I have a question. I have been told by a friend that I can't sell my honey and that I shouldn't use it myself because I didn't paint my hive either. I wanted it to look like 'the box next to the tree with the scaffold and the ladder and the fish stand....'. So whaen I put my hive together I painted it with HQ brand wood preservative. I was very careful to only paint the outside facings of the deep supers and honey super, the 3 outside facings of the bottom board, and the 4 outside and 4 bottom edge facings of the top cover. My friend is saying that my honey will be contaminated. Is this so? Carl Watchman@qwick.net ... If you turn the battery around the Energizer Bunny keeps coming and.. ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Jan 1997 00:38:36 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Carl H. Powell" Subject: Re: Bees -=> Quoting Int:bee-l@cnsibm.albany.e to Watchman <=- >May I recommend instead the following article: > > 1992 Wenner, A.M., J.E. Alcock, and D.E. Meade. Efficient hunting of >feral colonies. Bee Science 2:64-70. > > Adrian > >Adrian M. Wenner (805) 893-2838 (UCSB office) >Ecol., Evol., & Marine Biology (805) 893-8062 (UCSB FAX) >Univ. of Calif., Santa Barbara (805) 963-8508 (home office & FAX) >Santa Barbara, CA 93106 In> Dear Adrian, In> Are you able to send me a copy of the above the article In> please? In> Abbas Edun Hi Adrian, Happy New Year! I too would like to recieve a copy. Please respond to my e-mail to conserve the other Bee-L'ers' bandwidth. Thanks, Carl Watchman@qwick.net ... "Yield to temptation, it may not pass your way again." - L. Long ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Jan 1997 00:38:44 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Carl H. Powell" Subject: Re: beeswax -=> Quoting Int:bee-l@cnsibm.albany.e to Watchman <=- In> http://www.cybertours.com/~midnitebee/ In> Last call for beekeepers who would be willing to sell beeswax to their In> neighbors.I prefer only beekeepers,not companies who sell beeswax.Your In> name and address,plus phone# ,will be added to my web site.No prices In> will be listed!! Carl Powell Hampton River Apiary 21 Holly St. Hampton, Va. 23669 ... "Crossbows don't kill people, Quarrels kill people." ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Jan 1997 16:49:01 +1000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Chris Allen Subject: Re: Paint or oil? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >I have been told by a friend that I can't sell my >honey and that I shouldn't use it myself because ...... > I painted it with HQ brand wood preservative. ...... > My friend is saying that my honey will be contaminated. Is this so? A lot depends on what is in that stuff "HQ". Is your friend offering this "advice" as a general principal or is he/she picking on "HQ" in particular? Does the label say about the active ingredients? Does the label have any warnings about toxins? Have you asked the manufacture? Regards Chris Allen ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 4 Jan 1997 01:16:18 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: MIDNITEBEE Subject: bee assoc. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit http://www.cybertours.com/~midnitebee/ I am missing the following State Bee Associations or clubs. ALASKA,ARIZONA,COLORADO,CONNECTICUT,DELAWARE,FLORIDA,ILLINOIS,INDIANA,IOWA,K ANSAS,KENTUCKY,LOUISIANNA,MASSACHUSETTS,MICHIGAN,MINNESOTA,MISSISSIPPI,MISSO URI,MONTANA,NEBRASKA,NEVADA,NEWHAMPSHIRE,NEWJERSEY,NEWMEXICO,NORTHCAROLINA,O HIO,OKLAHOMA,OREGON,RHODE ISLAND,SOUTH CAROLINA,SOUTH DAKOTA,TENNESSEE,TEXAS,UTAH,VERMONT,WASHINGTON,WEST"by God"VIRGINIA,and last but not least,WYOMING. C'mon on now! Don't be bashful.I know your out there,recuperating from all that joyous Holiday cheer. This page would not be possible w/o your previous and future knowledge.I would like to believe,I started this web page for all beekeepers,new and old,to have a "central" meeting place to obtain information as quikly as possible.So,I call upon you again,send your information to my email address-midnitebee@cybertours.com BTW-I have started to give out tel# and email addresses,to people that want beeswax.I hope the beekeeprers, who are listed with me,are fiding this service worthwhile. Midnitebee(Herb) HAPPY NEW YEAR Btw- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Jan 1997 10:38:05 +0000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Alyn W. Ashworth" Subject: Re: Paint or oil? In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 In message , "Carl H. Powell" writes >whaen I put my hive together I >painted it with HQ brand wood preservative. I was very careful to only paint >the outside facings of the deep supers and honey super, the 3 outside facings >of the bottom board, and the 4 outside and 4 bottom edge facings of the top >cover. My friend is saying that my honey will be contaminated. Is this so? > Don't know what HQ brand is, but I do just what you do with some other non-insecticidal wood preservative, as do many local bee-keepers. Some even use creosote and let it air for a couple of months. I even know one bee-keeper who puts a dash of creosote down the internal joints of the hives - says it kills wax moths - and he's won top awards at the National Honey Show. Just make sure they're well-aired before use. -- Alyn W. Ashworth Lancashire & North-West Bee-Keepers' Association. UK. (but I don't speak on their bee-half) ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Jan 1997 10:29:43 +0000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Alyn W. Ashworth" Subject: Re: Paint or oil? Buckfast hives, Klartan, Brevity etc. In-Reply-To: <199701011217.MAA10202@hermes.zynet.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 In message <199701011217.MAA10202@hermes.zynet.net>, Glyn Davies writes >Greetings Alyn, > >Buckfast Hives have white brood chambers, brown supers and pink roofs. > Just goes to show you can't believe everything you read! >There is no point in coordinating treatment for Varroa. We tried it in >Devon (we're a few years ahead of you with varroa remember). Yes - we expect the little bug***s any time now. >1. Every beekeeper has a different time of convenience. >2. In Devon and probably in Lancashire there are as many non-association >members that are almost impossible to contact. Too right, but we expect many non-members to be amongst the first to give up once their colonies get zapped - is this your experience? >I'm surprised you, nor anyone else so far, has made a comment about the >illegal use of Klartan. Sorry - ignorance to blame - was under the impression that Klartan might be technically legal if imported personally from another country where sale was permitted. -- Alyn W. Ashworth Lancashire & North-West Bee-Keepers' Association. UK. (but I don't speak on their bee-half) ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Jan 1997 07:56:43 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: John A Skinner Subject: Re: Painting Hives In-Reply-To: <199701010534.AAB14180@mime3.prodigy.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII I agree will Bill and others, I switched from roller to pad. Pads were easier to clean up and applied the pain more evenly. Grins, John John A. Skinner 218 Ellington Hall Extension Apiculturist University of Tennessee jskinner@utk.edu Knoxville, TN 37901 (423)974-7138 On Wed, 1 Jan 1997, MR WILLIAM L HUGHES JR. wrote: > It really works. I used a paint pad this spring on my new equipment > and it work great. > > BIll Hughes > Bent Holly Honey Farm > Brighton, Tennessee USA > > << > A few postings have mentioned good ways to paint or preserve hives. > I've had > great luck with piling my boxes high and then using a painting device > called > a "pad" - a 5" wide pad of fuzzy fabric with a handle, used, usually, > for > painting walls around door and window trim. It's smooth, wide and > applies a > nice, even thin coat of paint on the boxes. I suppose a roller might > also be > good and even wider but I don't like the spray and spatter rollers > make and > their paint delivery is not as good as this pad. I can do a 10 high > stack of > hives, all sides in aboaut 10 minutes with this pad. A great work > saver and > a fine project for winter months. > > Faith Andrews Bedford > Tampa and Ivy, VA>> > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Jan 1997 08:01:00 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "George W.D. Fielder" Subject: Re Biological clock BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU +++++ Thanks Stan for your thoughtful consolidation and cross referencing of this thread. You wrote: >... I think it probable that bees over-wintered here in cellars in the past would have >started brood rearing in the dark. If not I would not think they would be >much good here where spring arrives so suddenly. I know a number of beekeepers do over-winter inside and hope they comment on the onset of their brood rearing and environmental factors that might be involved. I generally don't over-winter inside but did take one hive into the basement in order to provide bees continually for Bee Venom Therapy. By November, when I took it inside it was very cold that year and we already had a good layer of snow that lasted all winter so brood rearing should have stopped Although I did not verify this (more's the pity). I kept it in complete darkness around 5 degrees C (40 F) with NO OUTSIDE ACCESS. As expected here, lots of bees died throughout the winter and the population dwindled to the point that I wondered if I would loose the hive if I kept on vacuuming bees out for the BVT. But they DID start brood laying in the dark for by early April when I took it outside to pollinate my fruit trees, the hive was overflowing. I expect it was because the warmer basement allowed them to warm the brood nest earlier than the usual start (I read taking place in March although I have never had the heart to verify) and I had kept a feeder on all the time. FWIW they swarmed in May (a month early) and took up residence in a pile of empty, triple nuc boxes less than 100 feet from their hive. I find this interesting in light of the recent thread of minimum distance. I verified it WAS their swarm because I identified their marked queen - a two year old descendant from Buckfast (HTM resistant) stock. george Toronto area Canada. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Jan 1997 23:50:24 -0500 Reply-To: dronebee@norfolk.infi.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Dr. Pedro Rodriguez" Organization: InfiNet Subject: Re: Feeding hive MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit bee-l@cnsibm.albany.edu wrote: > > > patties of shortening and granulated sugar but I've read somewhere that > > beekeepers sometimes provide granulated sugar alone. What can you tell a > > Though you can feed dry sugar to good effect, for this situation I'd > avoid it. Dry sugar feeding has the advantages of easy, little or > no extra gear, clean, no spilled syrup to cause robbing, little/no > stimulation of the queen's egg laying. But it is at a cost. The > bees to handle it must liquify it themselves, then evaporate off the > excess again - there is an energy conversion factor which means for > any given quantity of sugar, feeding it dry will result in less > stores overall. > > Murray Reid, one of NZ's bee advisory officers who reads this list, > wrote a good article on this some years back - I'll see if I can > find it. > > But for your situation, Marcia, I'd feed with as heavy a sugar syrup > as I could make (just at the point of maximum saturation) (knowing > that this will probably cause some responses from the others on the > list!!!) > > How to feed? Personal preference plays a lot in it. As it isn't > extreme cold you're dealing with, it doesn't matter so much, so > either over the broodnest with jar, Boardman feeder at entrance, > division board feeder or over the top type feeder - machts nichts! > > (\ Nick Wallingford > {|||8- home nickw@wave.co.nz > (/ work nw1@boppoly.ac.nz > NZ Beekeeping http://www.wave.co.nz/pages/nickw/nzbkpg.htm bee-l@cnsibm.albany.edu wrote: > > > patties of shortening and granulated sugar but I've read somewhere that > > beekeepers sometimes provide granulated sugar alone. What can you tell a > > Though you can feed dry sugar to good effect, for this situation I'd > avoid it. Dry sugar feeding has the advantages of easy, little or > no extra gear, clean, no spilled syrup to cause robbing, little/no > stimulation of the queen's egg laying. But it is at a cost. The > bees to handle it must liquify it themselves, then evaporate off the > excess again - there is an energy conversion factor which means for > any given quantity of sugar, feeding it dry will result in less > stores overall. > > Murray Reid, one of NZ's bee advisory officers who reads this list, > wrote a good article on this some years back - I'll see if I can > find it. > > But for your situation, Marcia, I'd feed with as heavy a sugar syrup > as I could make (just at the point of maximum saturation) (knowing > that this will probably cause some responses from the others on the > list!!!) > > For many years I have followed the traditional system of supplemental feeding (equal quantities, BY WEIGHT, of sugar and water). But, all that time I kept telling myself that I had to being doing my honeybees an injustice because honeybees have to spend energy to get rid of any extra water that we feed them. I have heard from many sources that corn syrup is harmful to honeybee larvae! I also had my doubts about that theory and decided to submit it to scientific study. I plan to share the results of my second research project (in addition to that with Varroa mites) at the 54TH Annual Convention of the AFB in Norfolk, Virginia, USA. I know that many of you are going to write back to me again complaining (hopefully not about my spelling) about the sanity and willingness to challenge established practices! I hope that some of you will remember to write thanking me when you start enjoying the benefits of my work in you bee yards! Yes, concentrate your sugar solution almost to the point of simulating honey. Your honeybees will love it, and you too! HAPPY NEW YEAR AND HAPPY BEEKEEPING! Dr. Pedro Rodriguez Virginia Beach, Virginia USA > > (\ Nick Wallingford > {|||8- home nickw@wave.co.nz > (/ work nw1@boppoly.ac.nz > NZ Beekeeping http://www.wave.co.nz/pages/nickw/nzbkpg.htm ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Jan 1997 00:48:50 -0500 Reply-To: dronebee@norfolk.infi.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Dr. Pedro Rodriguez" Organization: InfiNet Subject: Re: beeswax MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit bee-l@cnsibm.albany.edu wrote: > > -=> Quoting Int:bee-l@cnsibm.albany.e to Watchman <=- > > In> http://www.cybertours.com/~midnitebee/ > > In> Last call for beekeepers who would be willing to sell beeswax to their > In> neighbors.I prefer only beekeepers,not companies who sell beeswax.Your > In> name and address,plus phone# ,will be added to my web site.No prices > In> will be listed!! > > Carl Powell > Hampton River Apiary > 21 Holly St. > Hampton, Va. 23669 > > ... "Crossbows don't kill people, Quarrels kill people." > > ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20 Yes, please add my name: Dr. Pedro P. Rodriguez 2133 Wolfsnare Road Virginia Beach, Va 23454 757-486-1573 (HAPPY NEW YEAR) ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Jan 1997 08:08:07 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: WILLIAM G LORD Comments: cc: non-toxic@franklin.ces.state.nc.us, wood@franklin.ces.state.nc.us, preservative@franklin.ces.state.nc.us Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I have posted this several times before but will throw it in again as many new people have signed on the list. I use a non-toxic wood preservative developed by the U.S. Forest Service Wood Products lab that is essentially the same thing as "Thompson's" or other brand name waterproofing formulas but much cheaper. I find that I can buy 5 gallons of house brand waterseal products from discounters like Wal Mart and enhance the mix by adding 6 - 8 ounces of melted paraffin. I read earlier where someone advocated the use of linseed oil. It is great stuff but will cause terrible mildew problems in warm humid climates, so beware all you southerners. Non-toxic wood preservative: 3 cups polyurethane (or extrerior varnish or boiled linseed oil in dry climates) 1 ounce paraffin wax mineral spirits or paint thinner or turpentine to make a gallon directions: Melt wax and add to mineral spirits, add urethane and agitate. I apply this mixture with a 1 gallon garden sprayer with a flat fan nozzle or use an empty plastic syrup bottle to pour it on to super tops and bottom edges. I let it dry for a couple of days and paint. The paraffin is the active ingredient, and it is not as good as a hot dip but if the wood is dry it soaks up the mixture and will really shed water. You can also use it to thin oil based paint and it will shed water. If you add too much wax it will precipitate out at the bottom and is no big deal. I would add as much wax as will go into solution. -- william g lord E-Mail : wglord@franklin Internet: wglord@franklin.ces.ncsu.edu Phone : 9194963344 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Jan 1997 10:06:04 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Steven A. Creasy" Subject: Making Splits Hello All! Well, it's January now so I guess we frightened, apprehensive, new-bees can start some threads on spring management! I am entering into my third season of beekeeping, and have two hives, both started last year from 5 pound packages. (I lost all ONE of my hives the year before to mites and ignorance). The packages did very well last year, and seemed very strong going into winter. I took my honey off early, (1st week in Sept.) and left the fall flow for the bees, I also treated with Apistan as soon as my honey was off and did not seem to have a great mite problem when I closed up for the winter. Recent inspections on our recent 65-70 degree days have revealed a lot of activity, and the hives still seem fairly heavy with stores. My question is this. I plan to split both of my hives this year to head of swarming and to increase my number of hives from two to four. I know this is a VERY regional thing with times varying widely based on climate, but I would appreciate some tips from you on how to proceed, what to look for, and any horrifying/great success stories you may have. I plan to review "The_Hive_and_the_Honeybee" for more tip/procedures, and would also appreciate more reading suggestions. Thank you very much, for myself, and other beginners who will benefit from this thread. Steve Creasy- Maryville, Tennessee, USA Prov. 24:13, 25:16 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Jan 1997 08:32:38 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jerry J Bromenshenk Subject: Re: bee assoc. In-Reply-To: <199701020612.BAA04407@hitchhike.cybertours.com> from "MIDNITEBEE" at Jan 4, 97 01:16:18 am MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Montana has a statewide Beekeeping Association and a new President. They meet annually. Because the President is new as of October, I will have to get his address. The Montana Association is almost entirely Commercial Beekeepers. One hobbiest group exists in Billings, MT. Again, don't know the current President, but I do know the commercial beekeeper who advises them. I will get this information for you. Also, it may be a bit redundent, but we have been building the same list for our revised web page. Best Wishes for the Holidays. Jerry Bromenshenk jjbmail@selway.umt.edu ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Jan 1997 08:40:21 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jerry J Bromenshenk Subject: Re: your mail In-Reply-To: <9701020808.ZM4735@franklin.ces.state.nc.us> from "WILLIAM G LORD" at Jan 2, 97 08:08:07 am MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi: I may be wrong, but I don't think you can call polyurethane non-toxic. Maybe after it is fully cured it might qualify, assuming the bees can't rasp it off and digest it. But notice the warnings about harmful vapors and application in well ventilated areas (human hazard). Years ago I was conducting a literature search of carbamate insecticides and kept finding cross-references between carbamates and urethanes. If memory serves me, there were some toxicity tests done with urethanes and cockroaches. Jerry Bromenshenk jjbmail@selway.umt.edu ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Jan 1997 09:52:00 CST6CDT Reply-To: bwhite@mda-is.mda.state.mn.us Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: BLANE WHITE Organization: Minnesota Dept of Agriculture Subject: Re: biological clock? Hi all, Stan said in part: "Another has happened regularly with the packages of NZ and OZ bees shipped to the northern hemisphere. At first glance that seems to conflict with what Jerry mentioned about shifts in photoperiod having to be under 15 minutes per day for them to have effect (i.e. great photoperiod change but queens get into high gear quickly). However, in thinking about this a bit more I have realized that it is not a very fair experiment, as those queens are probably young and fresh out of nucs and have not had a brood rearing slowdown to come out of." The shift in daylength after these packages arrived and were hived would probably be less than 15 min. per day as they arrive in North America fairly soon after the spring equinox. This could actually agree with what Jerry has observed. "Another method is to put the animals in an artificial environment with controlled environment and see how their behaviour changes. " This is done to some extent with indoor wintering setups. There are two basic types of systems that I have heard about. One is a completely controled environment where temperature is controled with either heating or cooling as needed and there is much ventilation. In at least many of these buildings no light is allowed into the building and the reports I have heard indicate no broodrearing but this may be due to the very low relative humidity due to the ventilation. In the other setup, there are outside entrances that allow some light in and there is less ventilation. In these setups the colonies do rear brood starting usually sometime in January or February here in MN. When they began broodrearing, they increase consumption of stores partly in an effort to provide the humidity needed to rear the brood. One beekeeper here in Minnesota has found with this kind of wintering setup that by increasing the humidity in the building the extra feed consumption is much reduced. The colonies coming out of his building in the spring have brood and look similar to outdoor wintered colonies. The key is some broodrearing during late winter. One would have to design an experiment to control light with enough humidity for broodrearing to take place to answer the question. It should be fairly easy to conduct such a test during the winter months here in the north. Has anyone done this? The canadians have done much more research on indoor wintering systems than we have here in the US. blane ****************************************** Blane White State Apiary Inspector Minnesota Department of Agriculture 90 W Plato Blvd St Paul, MN 55107 http://www.mda.state.mn.us phone 612-296-0591 fax 612-296-7386 bwhite@mda-is.mda.state.mn.us ******************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Jan 1997 08:40:22 -0600 Reply-To: allend@internode.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Allen Dick Organization: The Beekeepers Subject: Re Biological clock MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT I really don't know about a biological clock related to season and the lengthening of daylight hours, but I do know that the literature is full of discussion of the success of bees brood rearing on various pollens and supplements. Henry Pirker wrote an article years back "Steering Factor Humidity" that decribed the correlation of brood rearing and humidity in bee houses in Northern Alberta. He tinkered with humidity and temperature and could control brood rearing at will. (I am only familiar with the mechanisms that we see here in country where we have 10 months of winter and two months of poor skiing. It is currently minus 17 Celcius here -- and this is quite a heat wave compared to the last three weeks). Interior temperature and humidity of the winter cluster is a factor, and this is related to whether the bees are calm or stimulated, as well as the environment. In the fall, temperatures decline progressively over time, as do daylight hours and sun angle. One irritant that may cause some restlessness and warming in the hive over time is the buildup of feces in the bees. Aging of the population may also be a factor causing more activity, since older bees normally want to go outside. If bees are properly prepared for winter, in late fall, older bees have generally left, and the bees are sitting on a lot of honey which buries the pollen they need for brood rearing. They will even bring up honey from below and fill the upper box. Consequently, they have little pollen available, but as winter progresses, they uncover this pollen and are able to rear brood. We notice in the summer that pollen income is a large factor in the amount, quality, and duration of brood rearing, and the decline in brood rearing in the fall is related to the decline in successful foraging for pollen and reduction in bee activity. Cool days after an early frost result in cutting back compared to years where frost is late and days are warmer. Hive populations are a factor, and once peaked in summer, mature hives reduce brood production compared to splits in the same yard. In late winter, poulations are reduced due to attrition, so small populations may be a factor. Additionally, other factors being equal, empty (light) hives are more active than full (heavy) ones. In Alberta we seldom see more than 3 or 4 frames of brood before the spring pollen begins in earnest, and this is sometimes pretty spotty. Thin syrup or a honey flow are very important too, since they supply ready food and moisture. There seems to be a concensus that sucrose is stimulative compared to honey as a feed, and nectar contains mostly sucrose. To sum, I believe that the major factors are in roughly declining order of importance: Pollen, humidity, population, nectar income. As far as a biological clock? I don't know. Regards Allen W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper VE6CFK RR#1, Swalwell, Alberta Canada T0M 1Y0 Internet:dicka@cuug.ab.ca & allend@internode.net Honey. Bees, & Art ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Jan 1997 11:07:49 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Aaron Morris Subject: A riddle for the new year! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Surfin' the net for references to "herbicide roundup" (more later), I took a wrong turn to 'Riddle du Jour", which I will share with BEE-L: "Golden treasures I contain, Guarded by hundreds and thousands. Stored in a labyrinth where no man walks, Yet men often come to sieze my gold. By smoke I am overcome and robbed, Then left to build my treasures anew." Sorry I am to admit that I had to think about it for a while. Happy new year to all! Aaron Morris ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Jan 1997 11:26:55 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Joel W. Govostes" Subject: BEE trivia on Jeopardy!! Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Last night (1 Jan) one of the Jeopardy questions was about Dr. Eva Crane (-- the category was something like "Notable Women"). The "answer" dealt with her work in apiculture. I thought it was pretty great! Anybody else catch that? Best wishes to all for a great 97. -------- JWG ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Jan 1997 10:32:43 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: krengel lawrence e Subject: Re: Feeding hive Comments: To: "Dr. Pedro Rodriguez" In-Reply-To: <32CB3E90.4227@norfolk.infi.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII I have read - I think in ABC and XYZ of beekeeping the following recommendation for feeding: Spring feeding- 2 parts water to 1 part sugar... (a thin solution to simulate nectur and encourage brood rearing).. Fall feeding- 1 part water to 2 parts sugar... (a thick solution to simulate honey to be stored as if a honey spill and not encourage brood rearing). I have used this system with good results. Just recently there was a recipe for sugar candy... a rather complicated one... I recall a simpler one made of sugar, water, and cream of tartar... heated to "hard ball" candy temperature and poured into a candy board frame that is placed directly on top of the upper hive box. I have used this system in the past, but I don't recall the exact proportions of the ingredients. Does anyone else recall? When I used these boards in the spring to provide a little extra food, they were only partly consumed. A local beekeeper puts them on in early winter and says they are complete consumed before the bees move on to stored honey. I think I am going to try this. Larry Krengel Marengo, Illinois USA Home of Dr. C. C. Miller ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Jan 1997 11:33:37 -0500 Reply-To: dronebee@norfolk.infi.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Dr. Pedro Rodriguez" Organization: InfiNet Subject: Re: Making Splits MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit bee-l@cnsibm.albany.edu wrote: > > Hello All! > > Well, it's January now so I guess we frightened, apprehensive, new-bees > can start some threads on spring management! I am entering into my third > season of beekeeping, and have two hives, both started last year from 5 > pound packages. (I lost all ONE of my hives the year before to mites and > ignorance). The packages did very well last year, and seemed very strong > going into winter. I took my honey off early, (1st week in Sept.) and > left the fall flow for the bees, I also treated with Apistan as soon as > my honey was off and did not seem to have a great mite problem when I > closed up for the winter. Recent inspections on our recent 65-70 degree > days have revealed a lot of activity, and the hives still seem fairly > heavy with stores. > > My question is this. I plan to split both of my hives this year to head > of swarming and to increase my number of hives from two to four. I know > this is a VERY regional thing with times varying widely based on climate, > but I would appreciate some tips from you on how to proceed, what to look > for, and any horrifying/great success stories you may have. I plan to > review "The_Hive_and_the_Honeybee" for more tip/procedures, and would > also appreciate more reading suggestions. > > Thank you very much, for myself, and other beginners who will benefit > from this thread. > > Steve Creasy- > Maryville, Tennessee, USA > Prov. 24:13, 25:16 bee-l@cnsibm.albany.edu wrote: > > Hello All! > > Well, it's January now so I guess we frightened, apprehensive, new-bees > can start some threads on spring management! I am entering into my third > season of beekeeping, and have two hives, both started last year from 5 > pound packages. (I lost all ONE of my hives the year before to mites and > ignorance). The packages did very well last year, and seemed very strong > going into winter. I took my honey off early, (1st week in Sept.) and > left the fall flow for the bees, I also treated with Apistan as soon as > my honey was off and did not seem to have a great mite problem when I > closed up for the winter. Recent inspections on our recent 65-70 degree > days have revealed a lot of activity, and the hives still seem fairly > heavy with stores. > > My question is this. I plan to split both of my hives this year to head > of swarming and to increase my number of hives from two to four. I know > this is a VERY regional thing with times varying widely based on climate, > but I would appreciate some tips from you on how to proceed, what to look > for, and any horrifying/great success stories you may have. I plan to > review "The_Hive_and_the_Honeybee" for more tip/procedures, and would > also appreciate more reading suggestions. > > Thank you very much, for myself, and other beginners who will benefit > from this thread. > > Steve Creasy- > Maryville, Tennessee, USA > Prov. 24:13, 25:16 Honey production is directly proportional to the availability of nectar and honeybee population. Splitting your honeybee population will achieve pricesely that, reduced honey production by a big factor! You have to decide on what you want to have more hives or more honey! It might be wiser for you to buy package honeybees (notice that I always use the word honeybees as in contrast to just bees!) and go for the honey! (I love puns!) Economics, dear friend! Don't forget: If economics allow, come and visit the 54th AFC onvention at Norfolk, Virgina (USA) 15-18 Jan 97. HAPYY NEW YEAR. MERRY BEEKEEPING. Dr. Pedro P. Rodriguez Virginia Beach, Virginia 23454 Phone:757-486-1573 dronebe@norfolk.infi.net ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Jan 1997 12:45:46 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Kelley Rosenlund Subject: Heating Corn Syrup Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hello All!!, I have several barrels of corn syrup that are begining to crystallize and am designing a solar melter with electric heater backup to pump the syrup through to dissolve the crystals. I am using solar to keep fuel costs down as much as possible. One idea I am toying with is using 1.5 inch diameter irrigation tubing either on the roof or on the concrete/pavement road and circulating syrup through till clear. Remember I live in Florida and solar heat is plentiful!! At what temperature does straight corn syrup burn/carmelize? Does a 50/50 mix with water burn at the same temp? Does anyone currently use a solar setup to directly heat the syrup? God Bless, Kelley Rosenlund rosenlk@freenet.ufl.edu Gainesville, Florida, U.S.A., Phone:352-378-7510 200 hives, almost 2 years in beekeeping. 8 frame deeps,shallows. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Jan 1997 12:54:54 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Joel W. Govostes" Subject: Re: Making Splits Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" (2nd try at transmittal) The economics of making divisions really depends on the nature of the nectar flows in your area, and of course the weather. Here in the NE, we can make splits in May, about when the colonies are starting to get congested and may be starting swarm preparations. A three-four frame nuc of mostly sealed brood and bees, provided with a queen or queen cell, will usually build up well and by early July will start storing surplus honey. Meanwhile, the parent colony will be relieved of congestion and keep on growing without resorting to swarming. In fact, in my experience the parents will store more surplus than if not "pruned" in this way. The removal of brood and bees seems to have a positive, invigorating effect on the parent, rather than setting them back appreciably. (This only applies to good strong, vigorous colonies, already working in supers by end of May (NY).) After making the splits the big colonies normally will shift into high gear & really get to work! (Just adding plenty of super space does not seem to have the same effect.) Without making a division, the original colony often gets bogged down and activity declines. IME So, here, anyway, with the drawn out flows of summer and autumn, you can do better overall by "pushing them", making splits, as long as it is early enough. The removed brood isn't necessarily used to start new colonies, but can also be added to weaker colonies whose buildup has been slow, or it can be re-united to the main hive after the swarming period is over. It is much easier than trying to deal with strong colonies intent on making swarm preparations. .., FWIW! ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Jan 1997 12:57:19 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Scott Camazine Subject: eye ailments in beekeepers Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT As a bee scientist and medical doctor, I have recently been contacted by an ophthalmologist in California who noted a couple of cases of visual problems in beekeepers caused by central retinal vein occlusions. I am not aware of this being an ailment of particular concern to beekeepers, but I thought I would inquire among the Bee List subscribers to see whether anyone else is aware of increased prevalence of central retinal vein occlusions in beekeepers. If anyone has any information, please let me know. regards, scott \ ----------------------------- ()())8 Scott Camazine / Penn State University Department of Entomology 501 ASI Building University Park, PA 16802 814-863-1854 smc14@psu.edu ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Jan 1997 11:12:52 -0600 Reply-To: allend@internode.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Allen Dick Organization: The Beekeepers Subject: Re: Making Splits MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT > > The packages did very well last year, and seemed very strong > going into winter. > > My question is this. I plan to split both of my hives this year > > to head of swarming and to increase my number of hives from two to > > four. I know this is a VERY regional thing with times varying > > widely based on climate, but I would appreciate some tips from you > > on how to proceed, what to look for, and any horrifying/great > > success stories you may have. > Splitting your honeybee population will achieve pricesely that, > reduced honey production by a big factor! You have to decide on > what you want to have more hives or more honey! It might be wiser > for you to buy package honeybees ... While there is *some* truth to the above, "T'ain't *necessarily* so"! (And BTW, Pedro (and others), I'd sure appreciate it if you would cut down on the length of your unnecessary quotes. Adam & I've been trying to archive the logs of this discussion group; these huge blocks of quotes make the logs gratuitously huge and make it hard to read through the archives for info. Since this is a mailing list, you can be sure that almost everyone has read the original post). Thanks. Anyways... It depends *entirely* when your main flows are likely to ocur and how long your buildup period is. How well your packages did, compared to overwintered hives locally, is a strong hint as to whether splitting will work profitably for you. If they did about comparably, then splitting will increase your yield. Otherwise, be careful about splitting too drastically (two hives from one or three from one). In such a case, use the conservative, idiot proof method below. Many good beekeepers split to *increase* yield. It requires some knowledge of the locale and much knowledge of bees. You do, of course want to manage for maximum populations at flow times, but as you mentioned, it can be hard to keep large hives from swarming if a flow does not develop as expected. There is also the problem of hives that have 'peaked'. If they reach full size too early and they do not swarm, they may become 'lazy' and even dwindle after the peak. It is important to make sure you do not split too drastically, and for a bee-ginner, a good method is to just take one or *maybe* two frames of brood and bees each from several two storey hives with 6 or 8 frames of brood and make up a new single with them, adding a queen or ripe cell. Replace the missing frames in the parent hives with good brood combs. Take combs with a variety of ages of brood, but emphasize sealed brood. Don't take frames that are full to the ends with brood, but rather those with nice big *circles* of brood so that the new, smaller cluster will cover it nicely. Hopefully you will have a nice arch of nectar and pollen above the brood, and some full frames of honey to fill the rest of the box. About five or six such brood frames should make a producing colony if done early enough (six weeks, minimum, before the flow). Shake a few frames of *extra* bees into the nuc and screen it up for three days in the shade if you cannot move it away. Then set it on its stand, open it up and reduce the entrance. If you are not good at finding queens, don't worry if you can't find one of them. After three days, it should be obvious which hives have queens by the new eggs. Add a queen or cell to any that need them. If this is done well ahead of the main flows, it may both increase your total yield, and provide an extra hive to replace another that will doubtlessly dwindle at some point. You can do this again and again several weeks apart, if required. It does not seem to weaken the parent hives much if at all. I find it stimulates them. There are also benefits in terms of TM control, and this is a good way to introduce new queens into hives that may later be combined back. If it turns out that your splits are not as strong as you like at flow time, just place an excluder on the second brood box of a hive and lift the two brood boxes of the neighbouring split on top, add another excluder, super, and *presto!* you have a two queen colony! Regards Allen W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper VE6CFK RR#1, Swalwell, Alberta Canada T0M 1Y0 Internet:dicka@cuug.ab.ca & allend@internode.net Honey. Bees, & Art ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Jan 1997 13:20:41 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Aaron Morris Subject: Roundup TM MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Surfin' the net for references to "herbicide roundup" yielded more than 11,000 hits! Most are pro-Roundup pages put up by, you guessed it, MONSANTO! I'm reluctant to wish Roundup TM a happy 25th anniversary. Other less propagandous (is that a word?) pages can be found too. I urge readers to review the pros and cons to become as educated as possible to make their own decision. Quoting freely from one of the pages: "The desired outcome of the educational process is for youth and adults to understand the decisions that must be made when considering the use of herbicide(s)...." (Robert G. Hartzler, Iowa State University). When you come down to brass tacks, it's a personal choice whether or not one will use the herbicide. Unfortunately, those who will use the herbicide have a de facto veto over those who will not. It's like smoking. The smoke from ones' cigarette does not respect the boundaries imposed by a smoker or nonsmoker, smoke just diffuses. Those who smoke impact everyone in the closed system, whether it's a train or an office or a restaurant or even outdoors. No judgment, no evaluation, just fact. It's the universal gas law, it's physics, it's nature. And it's the same with Roundup. Whether ingredients in Roundup, are inert and harmless, active and hazardous, safe today or deadly fifty years from now, they will diffuse in our environment following the laws of nature impacting both target organism and passive bystanders. Is it safe? Monsanto and others say yes, "greenies" say no. Who's right and who's wrong? I doubt we'll know in our lifetime, but if one asks if it's ok, and can be assured enough that they decide it's "all right" to use the product, then they have exercised their right to make a choice against their better judgment when they know deep in their soul that they are fooling with mother nature. Some day, maybe not today, and maybe not tomorrow, perhaps not in my lifetime, but SOMEDAY, there will be a price to pay. Perhaps that price will only be $16.95 for a pint of Roundup concentrate or perhaps that price will be the lives of many in our global village. Who knows, it's a matter of conscience. This is Aaron Morris returning you to our regularly scheduled program on bees! ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Jan 1997 12:06:18 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Craig A Abel Subject: Re: biological clock? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Dear bee liners, At 11:24 PM 12/31/96 -0400, Stan Sandler wrote: >I know of two methods that are often used when experiments are done on the >biological clocks of other organisms. One method is sometimes to transport >the animals to a place where the biological clock would be out of sync.> snip >Another method is to put the animals in an artificial environment with >controlled environment and see how their behaviour changes. Maybe Jerry's >flight control rooms are something like that, I'm not sure. I think that in >many of the environmentally controlled indoor wintering setups that the bees >still have an outside entrance and can get light clues. I would love to >know whether the bees which wintered under sods as someone described >recently had built up in anticipation of spring. I'm not sure, but I think >it probable that bees overwintered here in cellars in the past would have >started brood rearing in the dark. If not I would not think they would be >much good here where spring arrives so suddenly. We winter our colonies indoors with zero lighting. When we remove our colonies from the building in late February to early March we see sealed brood in some of the colonies. The number of colonies with brood from year to year is highly variable. Around 25 - 50% from one year to another. The bees are not fed in the building and no changes in temperature or lighting are made during the wintering period. The temperature fluctuates from 43-47 F and the air exchange rate (3/hr) is held constant. I have no means of regulating the humidity, however, I have noticed that humidity levels go up toward late winter. This may be because some of colonies are feeding more because they have brood to feed or possibly humidity levels go up when outside temperatures rise during late winter which may prompt brood rearing. Probably not though, we have had one year when the outside temperature was very cold up until the week we removed the hives from the building but the inside humidity levels were still greater than earlier in the year. I believe there is an internal biological clock that can tell the hive (queen or workers or both) when the queen should begin laying but the biological clock is only one of many factors that can regulate the onset of egg laying. This is just an opinion I've formed since wintering bees indoors, I've never done anything close to a controlled experiment on this. Craig Abel (Entomologist) USDA-ARS Plant Introduction Station Iowa State University Ames, Iowa, USA 50011 Please visit our homepage at: http://www.ars-grin.gov/ars/MidWest/Ames ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Jan 1997 15:56:47 -0500 Reply-To: beeworks@muskoka.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: David Eyre Organization: beeworks Subject: Re: Making Splits MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT > > My question is this. I plan to split both of my hives this year to head > off swarming and to increase my number of hives from two to four. I know > this is a VERY regional thing with times varying widely based on climate, > but I would appreciate some tips from you on how to proceed, what to look > for, and any horrifying/great success stories you may have. I plan to > review "The_Hive_and_the_Honeybee" for more tip/procedures, and would > also appreciate more reading suggestions. I am sure that you will get plenty of reading to do "from the list" on this one. While I agree with splitting hives to make increase, I question "to head off swarming" I am always watching my hives for the dreaded swarming habits, but never see it happen. Looking back through my records I have only had one hive close to swarming (we stopped that one) in the last 8 years. We have had lots of discussion on the Bee-L in the last couple of years on this problem, and there are so many factors involved, but I don't think I agree with splitting a hive to prevent the possiblity of swarming. My view, keep young queens, no congestion, ventilation and take off full supers when capped, works for us!! Regards Dave....... ********************************************************* The Bee Works, 9 Progress Drive Unit 2, Orillia, Ontario, Canada. L3V 6H1 David Eyre, Owner. Phone/Fax 705 326 7171 Agents for E.H.Thorne & B.J.Sherriff UK http://www.muskoka.net/~beeworks ********************************************************* ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Jan 1997 15:56:47 -0500 Reply-To: beeworks@muskoka.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: David Eyre Organization: beeworks Subject: Re: Feeding hive MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT > I have used this system in the past, but I don't recall the exact > proportions of the ingredients. Does anyone else recall? > > When I used these boards in the spring to provide a little extra food, > they were only partly consumed. A local beekeeper puts them on in early > winter and says they are complete consumed before the bees move on to > stored honey. I think I am going to try this. This will no doubt bring forth cries of wrath, but what the hey?!! I make up candy by just adding a LITTLE liquid honey to granulated sugar. There are couple of reasons. Most of the standard recipes that I have tried goes too hard and the bees don't seem to be able to take it all. Whereas with a little honey it stays soft, and takes up moisture, and the bees seem to prefer it. No, there is no chance of passing on AFB, we don't have it, plus we only use this recipe where liquid sugar is not possible, and only in our own yards. The method. Knead a little honey, enough to keep the sugar stiff, leave it open for 24 hours as it softens, add more sugar. If you work at it you can end up with patties that stay soft but not runny, and without having to add some of the weird things advocated in some recipes. ********************************************************* The Bee Works, 9 Progress Drive Unit 2, Orillia, Ontario, Canada. L3V 6H1 David Eyre, Owner. Phone/Fax 705 326 7171 Agents for E.H.Thorne & B.J.Sherriff UK http://www.muskoka.net/~beeworks ********************************************************* ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Jan 1997 15:40:50 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Victor M. Kroenke" Subject: Re: Roundup TM Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Aaron Morris wrote: > > When you come down to brass tacks, it's a personal choice whether or > not one will use the herbicide. Unfortunately, those who will use > the herbicide have a de facto veto over those who will not. It's like > smoking. The smoke from ones' cigarette does not respect the > boundaries imposed by a smoker or nonsmoker, smoke just diffuses. > Those who smoke impact everyone in the closed system, whether it's a > train or an office or a restaurant or even outdoors. No judgment, no > evaluation, just fact. It's the universal gas law, it's physics, > it's nature. > > And it's the same with Roundup. Whether ingredients in Roundup, are > inert and harmless, active and hazardous, safe today or deadly fifty > years from now, they will diffuse in our environment following the > laws of nature impacting both target organism and passive bystanders. > Is it safe? Monsanto and others say yes, "greenies" say no. > Who's right and who's wrong? I doubt we'll know in our lifetime, but > if one asks if it's ok, and can be assured enough that they decide it's > "all right" to use the product, then they have exercised their right to > make a choice against their better judgment when they know deep in > their soul that they are fooling with mother nature. Some day, maybe > not today, and maybe not tomorrow, perhaps not in my lifetime, but > SOMEDAY, there will be a price to pay. Perhaps that price will only be > $16.95 for a pint of Roundup concentrate or perhaps that price will be > the lives of many in our global village. Who knows, it's a matter of > conscience. > For a farmer producing grain the choice of using or not using herbicides on crops such as corn or soybeans is not really a choice if he wishes to remain in the business of farming. He can protect everybody from all effects of herbicides and go broke. Not using herbicides is not being a good farmer. I don't know any farmers that do not follow label instructions. These chemicals are quite expensive and anyone in the business to make money is going to get the desired results without wasting money. Chemical fertilizers and herbicides are here to stay as long as there is a demand for food. Safer herbicides in conjunction with genetic engineering of seed may be the best we can hope for. Vic Kroenke Kansas USA ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Jan 1997 14:59:12 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jerry J Bromenshenk Subject: Re: biological clock? In-Reply-To: <2.2.32.19970102180618.00a58e30@pop-2.iastate.edu> from "Craig A Abel" at Jan 2, 97 12:06:18 pm MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi again: If we wait until about February, our queen's will begin to lay again, even when indoors. Our chambers are in windowless rooms. But observation hives kept in rooms with windows and nucs stored in a dark shed don't differ much. The clock problem occurs from about the end of October through early February. Getting them to start up again is a problem. Jerry Bromenshenk jjbmail@selway.umt.edu ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Jan 1997 15:00:29 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jerry J Bromenshenk Subject: Re: eye ailments in beekeepers In-Reply-To: from "Scott Camazine" at Jan 2, 97 12:57:19 pm MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Scott, only eye problems that I have encountered were due to allergies to pollen, bees, or something else in the hive. Red eyes, plugged sinuses, the typical things. Jerry Bromenshenk jjbmail@selway.umt.edu ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 Jan 1997 09:01:41 +1000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Chris Allen Subject: Re: Paint or oil? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >I even know one >bee-keeper who puts a dash of creosote down the internal joints of the >hives - says it kills wax moths Fascinationing!! Can you tell us more about this? Regards Chris Allen ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Jan 1997 18:16:09 -0600 Reply-To: bbirkey@interaccess.com Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Barry Birkey Organization: Birkey.Com Subject: Re: Building Supers MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Donald V Israel wrote: > Ok. I agree. I try to get the boxes to sit flat on a flat surface before > I nail them but most rock after the nails are put in. How can I stop it? > Maybe glue and clamps and nails later? Don- You don't say whether or not you are assembling manufactured box parts or if you are making your own. I have only assembled boxes that I have made and don't have a problem with them rocking. My guess is that the rocking problem is directly related to the degree of quality that is put into the manufacturing of the joints and wood. -Barry -- Barry Birkey West Chicago, Illinois USA bbirkey@interaccess.com http://www.birkey.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Jan 1997 15:57:21 -0800 Reply-To: alwine@dreamcom.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Al Needham Subject: Re: eye ailments in beekeepers MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Scott: Briefly what is >central retinal vein occlusions< in brief layman's language-perhaps what do you see or not see-resultant effects? Thanks, Al -- * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Al Needham - Scituate,MA,USA - Alwine@dreamcom.net * * >"The HoneyBee"-An Educational Software Program V1.0< * * Available from Sweden at: Http://www.kuai.se/~beeman/ * * Visit this site for close-up photos of Honey Bees at * * work and see how Honey is processed. * * " Version 2.0 coming in '97'.....stay tuned in! " * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Jan 1997 16:51:10 -0800 Reply-To: alwine@dreamcom.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Al Needham Subject: "The HoneyBee Version 2.0" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To all interested parties: "The HoneyBee" Version 2.0, New For 1997-is a freeware software program, Ver: 1.0 released about six months ago. The program is a bit large (about 2mb) and requires Win 3.xx/Win 95 and SVGA. It is a joint effort by myself and P-O Gustafsson (fellow BEE-Ler). It is an "Educational Program About Honey Bees, Their Role In Nature, And Their Value To All Of Us" It features some nice close-up photography by P-O. The object of the program is to get some good PR (Public Relations) out there to the general public on behalf of our Bees & secondarily to encourage a growth in the ranks of folks like us - Hobbyists & Commercial Beekeepers. The new Version 2.0 is a complete re-work of the original-"tain't much" left of the version 1.0. It is much less "wordier"! Fewer long text files! It also features a "Slide Show" that operates manually (press a key or right mouse button to move to the next slide) within the program itself. A little "secret feature" is available if you look inside the program files - "An Automatic Slide Show" that is timed to ten seconds between slides-with additional info on how to change this timing to suit your purpose. I put this feature in there for the use of those Beekeeprs amongst you who put the effort into getting out to schools, etc. It could also come in handy if you have a Honey selling booth at a fair. You could bring a computer along and use this Automated feature to attract folks to your booth. I am sure that some of you will find novel uses for it. I might note that you are free to just separate this Automated features files from the program for the above purposes. However, you are not legally free to distribute/upload/sell, etc. these Automated files apart from the whole program. Text inside the program covers this aspect. For those of you who do not have the capability to download from the Web, or do not have a friend/inlaw/outlaw who has that capability, you can obtain a "Two Disk Set" from either myself ($8.95 US Funds) or P-O( 60SKR Swedish Krona) total cost-Postage Free to naywhere on this planet. The Disk Set will automatically create its own Program Group and Icon and will wutomatically run itself upon completion of its installation. No need to make a Directory,etc. Once you unzip HoneyBee.zip into a directory, run Setup and it will do the same as above. Once you have the "Two Disk Set", you are most certainly free to, and encouraged to, diskcopy and pass around as many copies as you please with no additional charge! This is not intended to be a "money making deal". Anyone caught trying to make money off this program, aside from charging normal shareware distribution charges, is doing so at their own legal risk! You may, of course upload HoneyBee.zip to anywhere you please within our common solar system. Inside the "zip" are the description files to be examined by a BBS Sysop. Should any of you have your own Web Site, P-O and I, will be pleased if you care to have it available as a Download from your pages. Incidentally - Have any of you out there found BEE-L via the info in the original HoneyBee? Sorry Allen, but your name and info on your "cool" Listserv Subscription site is in the new Version 2.0 - properly credited, I might add! :) All you pros are credited in general for being so helpful (and mighty patient at times) to all of us small hobbyists and newbies!! You folks do deserve the credit!! That's it - Al -- * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Al Needham - Scituate,MA,USA - Alwine@dreamcom.net * * >"The HoneyBee"-An Educational Software Program V2.0< * * ALL NEW 1997 VERSION WITH A SLIDE SHOW * * Available from Sweden at: Http://www.kuai.se/~beeman/ * * Visit this site for close-up photos of Honey Bees at * * work and see how Honey is processed. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Jan 1997 20:22:36 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Frank Humphrey Subject: Re: Making Splits MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ---------- > > My question is this. I plan to split both of my hives this year to head > of swarming and to increase my number of hives from two to four. I know > this is a VERY regional thing with times varying widely based on climate, > but I would appreciate some tips from you on how to proceed, what to look > for, and any horrifying/great success stories you may have. I plan to > review "The_Hive_and_the_Honeybee" for more tip/procedures, and would > also appreciate more reading suggestions. > > Thank you very much, for myself, and other beginners who will benefit > from this thread. > > Steve Creasy- > Maryville, Tennessee, USA > Prov. 24:13, 25:16 Hi Steve I'm only about 80 miles south of you, here in Chattanooga. When I make increase, I plan for it in July the year before. I use single hive bodies during production because we have a very short season and due to our mild winters, one super will carry them through winter. If I plan to make increase next year, I add a second hive body above a queen excluder, when the dearth starts in mid to late July. I feed heavy syrup as much as they will take. With the heavy syrup they tend to store it so they readily draw out new foundation for storage space. In late fall, I remove the queen excluder so the bees have access to the upper chamber. In spring the queen will lay in both chambers. I simply run the queen down into the lower chamber then remove the top one to make increase. Set it on a new stand for a few hours, to allow any field bees to exit, then give them a new queen. Since they already have stores and drawn comb, the new colony becomes strong very quickly and I have sometimes gotten modest harvest the first year. If I don't have the above method setup, I will take as many as 3 frames of sealed brood from an strong colony to start a new one. You probably won't get a harvest the first year, from the new colony. You will however leave the original colony strong enough to recover and produce a decent crop in a good year Frank Humphrey beekeepr@cdc.net ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Jan 1997 21:37:32 +0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: George_Willy Subject: Re: BEES AND BEELINING Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >To George in Vermont: > >Hi! >I just got done reading your post about that bee box and how you >accomplish this. I have a friend in Norfolk who has a small wood shop and >is very good at making things wooden as well as being a beekeeper himself. >I was wondering if you could possibly send me a picture of one of your boxes >(or even a photocopy of one if you don't have a picture, some copiers are >very good with 'objects' these days). I am going to try to talk 'Woody' into >making one for display at our Assoc. We have a group who regularly track >and capture swarms and locate and mark feral colonies. Here is my snail mail >address: > >Carl Powell >214 #69 Wythe Creek Rd. >Poquoson, Va. 23662 > >BTW, what is your e-mail address? > >Carl Powell >Watchman @qwick.net > > >... Forrest Gump: Silence is a virtue known to all mute men. > >ps. >Hi again, >Looking back over my hardcopy I found your address in the quoted part >of the headers. I usually look in the signature first.... :-) > >Cp > > >___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20 Carl: It will be in the mail tomorrow 1/3/96 George ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 Jan 1997 01:23:00 GMT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Andy Nachbaur Organization: WILD BEE'S BBS (209) 826-8107 LOS BANOS, CA Subject: Re: Roundup TM >For a farmer producing grain the choice of using or not using herbicides >on crops such as corn or soybeans is not really a choice if he wishes to >remain in the business of farming. Hi All, I am a old beekeeper and I am tired of turning my cheek only to be slapped again and again. I have had the experience to share my bee pasture with row crop growers on the California coast to cotton farmers in the hot valley's. I have also served my time on many government boards, and appeared before the same such as fly control, mosquito, weed, honeybee, chicken pooh, you name it and I been there, at local and state levels. I am not a environmentalist, but I stand, alone if necessary to stop the un-necessary spraying of government lands, including roadsides with chemicals, and against beekeepers when it is necessary... In the last 40 years as one harmless chemical product or another has been removed from the market and this is the argument we in California have heard from agriculture all along, "It will put us out of business". But the truth is that we in agriculture are still in business in spite of all the regulations, restrictions, and withdrawal of 1000's of chemicals from our use. I include myself, the lowly beekeeper who still would be using some chemicals such as EDB which has proven to have a 100% cancer rate to those who have used it as prescribed by government, permits and regulation, bee science, ect., in a relativity short period. I have always been in agriculture, I can accept that there is a need for farm chemicals and regulations, but I do not see the same need for our public lands, urban areas, or our rural roadways to be given the same consideration we give the farmer. Because it is in many cases not necessary and brings a far grater number of people into contact with so called safe products that all manufactures say are harmless until it is proven sometime by great disasters that they were not all that safe. EDB was safe if used as directed, DDT was safe if used as directed, Parathion is safe if used as directed, and on and on.. When a careless farmer endangers his family, his workers, his land, his community, (all of which are not the rule), we react with horror. He pays a price which can be his complete loss of livelihood if he is found to have used, legal or not chemicals and they cause harm. Why should we allow any government agency to spray our road sides when this leads directly to contamination of our public water ways by public agencies who are almost immune from the bad effects of their acts and there are alternative methods? Maybe we should all ask how old were you when the first open air A-Bomb was set off, and how old were you when it was stopped, and how old will you be when the government admits any liability for any damage done. I suspect many if not most of you are too young to do that, but it is a matter of record if anyone is interested, except for the last part. At least with the farmer we can stop him from farming when his actions cause contamination of water, air, land, food, or kill some poor creature including our bees. Any who have experienced trying to protect their own or the public interest from poor government actions knows how hard it is to get them to change once they have the green light. ttul, the OLd Drone (c) Permission is granted to freely copy this document in any form, or to print for any use. (w)Opinions are not necessarily facts. Use at own risk. --- ~ QMPro 1.53 ~ ... Where bee-hives range on a gray bench in the garden, ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Jan 1997 21:47:24 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Mike Worrell Subject: Re: Beeswax Recipes I am a northern Maryland beekeeper and am looking for the following: 1. Recipe for body lotion using beeswax or honey (not hand creme) 2. Instructions for making ear candles. Thanks for any help you can offer. Mike ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Jan 1997 22:12:47 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Harry Sweet Subject: Re: Roundup In a message dated 96-12-31 01:34:52 EST, you write: << I was quite concerned and you helped. I had to kill a lawn last September and had applied roundup. The lawn was covered in Dandelions and with all my best efforts I couldn't avoid spraying a lot of bees. The honeyflow hereabouts in June is R. procerus/discolor which is the king of weeds and unlikely to be effected much by the roundup but I thought the bees might suffer. ...Stuart >> Birds and bees and snails all benefit from dandelions, yet for some reason we think of them as a noxious weeds that must be irradicated. Harry Sweet N. California ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Jan 1997 22:12:54 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Harry Sweet Subject: Re: Paint or oil? In a message dated 97-01-02 00:38:57 EST, you write: << So I put my hive together I painted it with HQ brand wood preservative. I was very careful to only paint the outside facings of the deep supers and honey super, the 3 outside facings of the bottom board, and the 4 outside and 4 bottom edge facings of the top cover. My friend is saying that my honey will be contaminated. Is this so? Carl Watchman@qwick.net ... If you turn the battery around the Energizer Bunny keeps coming and.. ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20 >> I doubt it and jokes travel fast. Harry Sweet Wading in N. California ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Jan 1997 22:12:56 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Harry Sweet Subject: Re: Making Splits In a message dated 97-01-02 10:08:45 EST, you write: << My question is this. I plan to split both of my hives this year to head of swarming and to increase my number of hives from two to four. I know this is a VERY regional thing with times varying widely based on climate, but I would appreciate some tips from you on how to proceed, what to look for, and any horrifying/great success stories you may have. I plan to review "The_Hive_and_the_Honeybee" for more tip/procedures, and would also appreciate more reading suggestions. Thank you very much, for myself, and other beginners who will benefit from this thread. Steve Creasy- Maryville, Tennessee, USA >> Here in California my bees are bringing in a lot of pollen and nectar. My hive configurations are 1 to 3 brood chambers with honey supers on the singles. I split the doubles and triples in late march, let the queenless hives make a queen on their own or add a frame with fresh eggs or find a queencell in one of the queenright colonies. I expect an active swarm season like last year. I've had no losses to mites in 4 years. I use only apistan in march, july, and november for 4 to 6 weeks. Last year I took a full 6 5/8 super in January. We have mustard, eucalyptus, a creek loaded with flora and lots of backyards around. Drool on beebro's. Harry Sweet in the flood zone. P.S. ABC's & XYZ's is superior to the H & the H bee, check it out. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Jan 1997 20:17:17 -0800 Reply-To: alwine@dreamcom.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Al Needham Subject: Re: Roundup TM MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Andy Nachbaur wrote: > > Maybe we should all ask how old were you when the first open air A-Bomb > was set off, and how old were you when it was stopped, and how old will > you be when the government admits any liability for any damage done. Andy, as a retired "Fed", I can tell you that I will be turned into dirt by the worms before the government admits liability for anything they did within my lifetime or maybe even my father's lifetime. Maybe, just maybe, they might >"fess" up soon< about that stuff they made Civil War Bullets with! Around here, I can recall they conducted a mighty aerial spray a few years ago because too many citizens complained about those pesky little buggy stingy type things harassing them in their yards. They assured us that it would only get the "soft bodied" type of bugs. Come that August, when my Hydrangeas were in bloom and the din from the squadrons of BumbleBees usually were cause for wearing ear plugs - there wasn't a buzz from anything - soft or hard bodied! It was like a nuclear disaster - made me think of that movie where the sub was sent out from Australia to investigate potential sound of life in Los Angeles and it turned out to be a shade hitting a morse code key in the breeze or something like that. Anyway, nothing alive was moving in L.A or was it San Francisco? A "short :)" way of saying I am in general agreement with your thoughts! Al -- * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Al Needham - Scituate,MA,USA - Alwine@dreamcom.net * * >"The HoneyBee"-An Educational Software Program V2.0< * * ALL NEW 1997 VERSION 2.0 WITH A SLIDE SHOW! * * Available from Sweden at: Http://www.kuai.se/~beeman/ * * Visit this site for close-up photos of Honey Bees at * * work and see how Honey is processed. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 Jan 1997 01:53:40 -0600 Reply-To: dvisrael@earthlink.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Donald V Israel Subject: Round up MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit There sure has been a lot of talk about round up here lately but one point has not been covered and needs consideration. How do you round up bees that have swarmed and lit 80 feet up in a pine tree? Don in NC ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Jan 1997 20:58:42 -0900 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Tom Elliott Subject: Re: bee assoc. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Herb, Could not send this to your E-Mail address, so apologies to the "List" for using the space I am current Vice-president of the Alaska State Beekeepers Association. Our mailing address is: P.O. Box 140175 Anchorage, Alaska 99514 We are not truely a state organization. We are a Cook Inlet area association. We were pushed into taking the Alaska State Beekeepers Association name due to a bit of a tiff within what was the Cook Inlet Beekeepers Association. There is not any commercial beekeeping in the State of Alaska, we do have a couple sideliners running a couple hundred hives. We are virtually all hobbiests. Feel free to use my E-Mail address if you like, but I do not have time to handle very much mail. Bee-L gives me about all I can deal with. If you have some questions about us I would be glad to answer them as best I can. I didn't respond sooner since I feel we are rather unique in the USA. Since you specificalll asked about Alaska I thought I would answer. - - - - - - - - - - - - "Test everything. Hold on to the good." (1 Thessalonians 5:21) Tom Elliott Eagle River, Alaska U.S.A. beeman@alaska.net ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 Jan 1997 18:16:00 +1200 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Cliff Van Eaton Subject: Do Bees Sleep? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain W. Kaiser, in the German Zoological Journal (77:297), reported on experiments he conducted in 1984 on this subject. He made extensive observations of bees at night in observation hives illuminated with red light (since bees don't see red light). He found that bees in many areas of the hive at least rested. They formed clusters, stood motionless on empty cells, and remained in a state of continuous muscle contraction. Some bees even laid on their sides. The only bees which remained active all night were those on brood combs (I guess they were on the night shift!) Single worker bees observed in a special chamber containing empty comb displayed similar behaviours. The only signs of life were a series of breathing movements in the abdomen, brief leg movements, and occasional brief antenna movements. At times, bees even crawled into an empty cell and rested, lying on either their side or back! Kaiser found two different resting states in bees, differentiated by how quickly the bee reacted to infrared light stimulus (how quickly they woke up?). Kaiser didn't prove conclusively that bees slept (I'm not sure how he would have been able to do that, really). What he did do, however, was show that bees displayed a series of behaviours that we normally identify as related to sleep. - Cliff Van Eaton, Tauranga, NEW ZEALAND ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 Jan 1997 01:29:30 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Stuart E Grant Subject: Re: Roundup Me... I had to kill a lawn > last September and had applied roundup. The lawn was covered in > Dandelions and with all my best efforts I couldn't avoid spraying a >lot > of bees. The honeyflow hereabouts in June is R. procerus/discolor >which > is the king of weeds and unlikely to be effected much by the >roundup > but I thought the bees might suffer. You... > Birds and bees and snails all benefit from dandelions, yet for some >reason we think of them as a noxious weeds that must be irradicated. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Harry, I have nothing against dandelions(I was only explaining why there were so many bees on the lawn). My contract stipulated I must kill the old lawn, cover to 4 inches with topsoil, level and apply seed. I would not do it that way again but I thought the best way to ask about Roundup was to demonstrate from my own experience that bees were gonna get sprayed if the product was applied between dawn and 6pm in June. From what has been said, I should not think a bee would be sprayed if the spraying were required to be done after 6(its light 'til 10). I appreciate those of you who have responded. Currently the discussion seems to have moved into the philosophical debate stage. That debate probably needs to take place BUT it doesn't answer my original question. What happens to a bee sprayed with the herbicide and can I require(by State law) that there be restrictions as to time of day? I'm in Washington and thought we had the State Apiarist in our membership. I don't need conversion to a point of view so much as I need practical tools in order to treat with the County Manager. ...Stuart ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- American football is the combination of the worst of our society; Violence interrupted by committee meetings! (George Will) ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 Jan 1997 03:07:24 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ted Fischer Subject: Re: Feeding hive MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit krengel lawrence e wrote: > > Just recently there was a recipe for sugar candy... a rather complicated > one... I recall a simpler one made of sugar, water, and cream of > tartar... heated to "hard ball" candy temperature and poured into a candy > board frame that is placed directly on top of the upper hive box. > > I have used this system in the past, but I don't recall the exact > proportions of the ingredients. Does anyone else recall? In the Winter 1986 issue of B-PLUS (use the link given in the MIDNITEBEE Links), Dr. Roger Hoopingarner of Michigan State University has published this recipe, used successfully by me and others during Michigan winters for the past 10 years. The recipe calls for 15 lbs of granulated sugar, a 3 lb jar of corn syrup, 4 cups of water and a 1/2 teaspoonful of cream of tartar. Consult the original article for details on preparation - temperatures and timing is important. Ted Fischer Dexter, Michigan USA ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 Jan 1997 03:09:46 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ted Fischer Subject: Re: eye ailments in beekeepers MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This is indeed interesting. It was not I, the beekeeper, but my wife who experienced central retinal vein occlusion this past summer. (Her vision still has not returned to normal.) I do not consider this a problem related to beekeeping, because her contact with the bees is very minimal, but it is interesting nonetheless. Ted Fischer Dexter, Michigan USA ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 Jan 1997 09:11:25 +0000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Alyn W. Ashworth" Subject: Re: Paint or oil? In-Reply-To: <9701022301.AA35770@msp.masterpack.com.au> MIME-Version: 1.0 In message <9701022301.AA35770@msp.masterpack.com.au>, Chris Allen replies to my original posting of >>I even know one >>bee-keeper who puts a dash of creosote down the internal joints of the >>hives - says it kills wax moths > by asking >Fascinationing!! Can you tell us more about this? Well.....this is a chap of almost eighty who taught me bee-keeping some four or fivr years ago. He runs about thirty hives and recons he makes enough to replace his car regularly and run it in the meantime!!! He has won top (and I mean TOP) prizes at honey shows throughout the country (UK), including the National. I've seen him win 90% of the classes at our county show, including light, dark and medium honey, heather, comb honey, wax, mead, candles. I'm sure you get the picture. He treats his hives as they need it, about every five years I would estimate, by painting outside with creosote and then leaving them over the Winter for the odour to dissipate. When he's done with each hive he runs the brush (which will be fairly dry at this point) dowm the four inside corners. You can see where this has happened as there is a half- inch shaded area to each side of the joint. His theory is that this corner joint is a favourite for wax moth eggs, and the creosote makes it unattractive for long enough to cut down on infestation considerably. The other thing that he does, that he reckons helps, is to store his supers outside, wet (i.e. with remains of honey), all winter. He never uses any anti-wax-moth chemicals. I have to say, his hives are almost completely free of wax moth. -- Alyn W. Ashworth Lancashire & North-West Bee-Keepers' Association. UK. (but I don't speak on their bee-half) ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Jan 1997 03:53:30 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Phil Veldhuis Organization: University of Manitoba Subject: A (serious) PLEA FOR BREVITY MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I think all Bee-L'ers should take the comments appended to this post very seriously. I have been thinking about this problem for some time, and now that a thread has opened, I feel obliged to speak out. What follows is an analysis of the situation, from my point of view. I have periodically reviewed the subscriber list of Bee-L and I have noticed a strong trend for the "professionals" (i.e. those people _paid_ to offer info and support to beekeepers) to turn over faster than average subscribers. I suggest that if you want these people to read and reply to your questions, don't fill their mailboxes up with comments about your local weather. In my opinion, Bee-L now offers nothing more than the equivalent to the local monthly beekeepers club meeting. Occasional gems of info hidden in piles of anecdotes and tangential discussions. If this list is _really_ a discussion of bee biology, then this should be respected. If it is not, then lets clear this matter up, so that those people who think they are subscribed to a list dedicated to bee biology can unsubscribe and save themselves some time. I'm OK with a beekeepers chat list, but lets not kid ourselves. Sorry to rave, but it is getting really bad. Other lists I am on are tightly controlled, the right to post freely is often restricted to those who haven't a history of posting 'noise'. It would be unfortunate if this list needed to take this step (or if an alternate list was formed with this intent). Remember Strunk and White's famous dictum of style: "omit unnecessary words"! If you want to flame me, please do so directly. Not to the list. Phil BTW, can we set this list up so that replys go to the sender, not the list? Here's some recent discussion of this issue. >I'M signing off Bee-L. I am interested in bees, Not evolution, >flames, spelling or any other hang ups people have. There are some >really good discussions out there but too much trash. >I feel exactly the same - it's a long time since I've read so much wooly >rubbish. However, I intend to persevere in the hope of finding the odd >silk purse amongst the pigs' ears. >By the way I think these lengthy notes on Bee line are great. Even the >ones that I find boring I can zap out of existence in milliseconds. Comment: Not if, like myself, you get the list in digest form, to avoid congesting your mailbox. In that case, you have to scroll through the whole thing. Usually, one long message and you get fed up and erase the whole day's worth of posts. >as a bonus there are some (NB. SOME!) very >expert people on the list who spend a lot of time sharing their knowledge >quite freely which can only be good for world beekeeping. It is up to you >to select the best from the rest Comment: It is to your advantage to encourage, rather than discourage, the experts. You should select _before_ you post. >Suggested New Year's resolution for all contributors..... >PLEASE don't quote the whole of the messsage to which you are replying. I hope I conformed... BTW2, I definately don't consider myself an expert, except perhaps in my own very narrow speciality. Rather, my research and beekeeping has brought me in contact with _real_ experts, many of whom have expressed regret at leaving Bee-L for the reasons I state. Of course, to those who remain, BRAVO! You are of infinite patience (or new to the web). Thanks for your attention. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 Jan 1997 07:38:51 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Bernard J.F. Blachhre" Subject: Re: A (serious) PLEA FOR BREVITY MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_01BBF949.2A3EACE0" Ceci est un message avec plusieurs parties au format MIME. ------=_NextPart_000_01BBF949.2A3EACE0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit : : : If this list is _really_ a discussion of bee biology, then this should : be respected. If it is not, then lets clear this matter up, so that : those people who think they are subscribed to a list dedicated to bee : biology can unsubscribe and save themselves some time. I'm OK with a : beekeepers chat list, but lets not kid ourselves. : : Sorry to rave, but it is getting really bad. : :I agree with you, our time is precious we have to make a living and manage our apiaries not to baby sit. ------=_NextPart_000_01BBF949.2A3EACE0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable



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: If this list is = _really_ a discussion of bee biology, then this should
: be = respected.  If it is not, then lets clear this matter up, so = that
: those people who think they are subscribed to a list dedicated = to bee
: biology can unsubscribe and save themselves some time. =  I'm OK with a
: beekeepers chat list, but lets not kid = ourselves.
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: Sorry to rave, but it is getting really bad.
: =
:I agree with you, our time is precious we have to make a living and = manage our apiaries not to baby sit.

------=_NextPart_000_01BBF949.2A3EACE0-- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 Jan 1997 12:40:25 +0000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Dave Black Subject: BREVITY AND PURPOSE In-Reply-To: <32CB8598.2DC0@cc.umanitoba.ca> MIME-Version: 1.0 In message <32CB8598.2DC0@cc.umanitoba.ca>, Phil Veldhuis writes >If this list is _really_ a discussion of bee biology, then this should >be respected. If it is not, then lets clear this matter up, so that >those people who think they are subscribed to a list dedicated to bee >biology can unsubscribe and save themselves some time. I'm OK with a >beekeepers chat list, but lets not kid ourselves. A newish subscriber myself I must reluctantly ('cos I'm a charitable sort) echo Phil's comments about a growing trend. I'd naively supposed that one 'chatted' in and 'discussed' in BEE-L. Not so it seems, even though many of the participants are the same and some threads cross posted. Could it not be so ? -- Dave Black Blacks Bee Gardens, Guildford, GU1 4RN. UK. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 Jan 1997 07:30:04 -0600 Reply-To: allend@internode.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Allen Dick Organization: The Beekeepers Subject: Re: A (serious) PLEA FOR BREVITY MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT > I have periodically reviewed the subscriber list of Bee-L and I have > noticed a strong trend for the "professionals" (i.e. those people > _paid_ to offer info and support to beekeepers) to turn over faster > than average subscribers... Thanks for mentioning and expanding upon this perrenial problem Phil. It is a problem I have wrestled with for years now. I have come to the conclusion that this is actually in insoluable problem: there are simply too may people with different needs and wants to be able to satisfy them all. BUT THERE IS A SOLUTION: (READ ON)... Several important principles are in direct conflict here. One is the right and need to speak freely, the other is the need for discipline and selectivity. I don't think it is possible on one list. The problem is that when we have one list and one newsgroup, we all hear everything; that is both a blessing -- and a curse. What we need is *several lists*, and it is to this end, I have been working on setting up a new list -- and several discussion groups on a web server. After a lot (years) of thought and discussion with friends privately what I have conclude is that: 1. BEE-L should continue just exactly the way that it is -- only more so. 2. A separate moderated list called 'Best of BEE-L' will begin soon. To that list, a moderator(s) will, on a daily basis, post selected and edited articles from the main list. This list will probably have a respectable following of the 'elite' whose impatience with BEE-L you have mentioned, since all the junk will be culled. 3. For those who do not wish to use USENET or mailing lists, four new discussion areas have now come into being: * Bee Science * Commercial Beekeeping * Hobby Beekeeping * Beekeeping Advertisements (Free) You can currently view them on one of my web servers from my Internode Home Page (The address of which is always in my signature below. Unfortunately, my provider is having problems installing some necessary software on the server and I was waiting until today or tomorrow to announce their existance. (You forced me to jump the gun with this premature announcement). Although, they are not *fully* functional today, you can visit them at http://www.internode.net/~allend/Bees I'd appreciate brickbats and bouquets, since I have some fine tuning to do. I also expect to have *fully searchable* logs at this site shortly. (Maybe someones might volunteer to edit a log or two (trim out excess headers, gratutous quotes and chatter, and monster redundant sig lines and send them to me). More on this later. 4. Additionally, for real time chatter, Nick has set up a now-famous real time chat page. > BTW2, I definately don't consider myself an expert, except perhaps > in my own very narrow speciality. One of the advantages of the internet is that everyone gets to speak, but that we also get to select to whom we listen. I hope these new additions advance both freedom and breadth of speech... and our ability to select what we wish to read. Regards Allen W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper VE6CFK RR#1, Swalwell, Alberta Canada T0M 1Y0 Internet:dicka@cuug.ab.ca & allend@internode.net Honey. Bees, & Art ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 Jan 1997 09:44:22 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Victor E Sten Subject: Re: Roundup Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hi A good way IMHO to kill unwanted plants around beehives, on driveways etc. is using undiluted white vinegar in a spray-bottle on a warm sunny day. The 5% acidic composition beats Round-up any day. Only plants sprayed directly on the leaves will be effected. Regards Viktor in Hawkesbury, Ontario. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 Jan 1997 07:53:44 -0600 Reply-To: allend@internode.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Allen Dick Organization: The Beekeepers Subject: Re: BREVITY AND PURPOSE MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT > A newish subscriber myself I must reluctantly ('cos I'm a charitable > sort) echo Phil's comments about a growing trend. I'd naively > supposed that one 'chatted' in and > 'discussed' in BEE-L. Not so it seems, even though many of the > participants are the same and some threads cross posted. Could it > not be so ? Well, in an ideal world, maybe, but this ain't it. Too many newbies (and some oldbees too) who haven't gotten control of the reply function on the their mailer yet, and who are still unsure of netiquette will always post a lot of noise. Add to this the drunks, the senile, and those who just never will know, and an umoderated list will *always* have periodic problems. The growling of the others just raises the noise to signal ratio, too, unfortunately. We are luckier than most lists by far in that all our members are fine people, although their priorities naturally vary. Unfortunately, for using sci.agriculture.beekeeping for chat, USENET propagation is very unreliable and uneven over the net. Some providers only get a small percentage of the posts, and replies and arguments (read flames) often arrive *before* the original post! This makes it of questionable usefullness to many of us as a discussion area. Anyhow, I've offered some solutions in separate posts, and we'll see if they help. Regards Allen W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper VE6CFK RR#1, Swalwell, Alberta Canada T0M 1Y0 Internet:dicka@cuug.ab.ca & allend@internode.net Honey. Bees, & Art ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Jan 1997 20:52:45 -0500 Reply-To: dronebee@norfolk.infi.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Dr. Pedro Rodriguez" Organization: InfiNet Subject: rhetoric MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear Bee-L listserv recipients and fellow beekeepers: A short time ago I joined The Bee-L listserv thinking that I would be sharing ideas with people who like me had a common interest, love for honeybees. Never in my wildest imagination thinking that it would be a forum for "nit-pickers" hell-bent on getting their daily dosis of excitement from ridiculing their fellow men. I notice with concern that my original thoughts about the list service were not as perceived judging by the personal comments distrubuted through the service. Since this is an internet service available to the "whole wide world" I feel compelled to offer a brief explanation, asking my fellow recipients to be indulgent with me. I have dedicated a lifetime to beekeeping and, yes, most of my adult life to SCIENTIFIC research. From the onset, I chose to perform research at my own expense precisely because I did not wish to be hand-tied to publish (as in contrast to those who perform research at someone else's expense). Hence, if and when I publish my work, it is entirely up to me. There is no rule as when, where, or through what medium research if published. The medium does not determine the "quality" of research. Time is the test for the veracity of assertions made by investigators. I take pride in my work and form of expression. I may not use the most flowery descriptive prose (granted: I have made spelling errors)but I make great efforts in the use of my adopted second language: English. and have become used to criticism about my form of expression. Every time such remarks are made, a faint smile appears on my lips as I think of J. Vandryes simile: "The ice borrows its substance . . . " J. Vandryes, Language: A Linguistic Introduction to History; translation by Paul Radin pp 275-6, New York, (1925). I use the word honeybee because there is only one of its kind (regardless of linguistic preferences) while there are thousands of other bees. I believe that as beekeepers we should distinguish between the two when we speak about the subject to which we devote so much attention. In an effort not to offend sensitivities in the future and to continue enjoying the benefits of "listserv" I promise t become a silent recipient of its many contributions. HAPPY HOLIDAYS AND MANY HAPPY RETURNS IN BEEKEEPING. Dr. Pedro Rodriguez 2133 Wolfsnare Road Virginia Beach, Virginia 23454 dronebee@norfolk.infi.net ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 Jan 1997 07:36:35 GMT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Sid Pullinger Subject: Bee space Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" The bee space, that little gap which the bees respect, approx. 0.25ins (6-8mm), has been known for a long time (Lorenzo Lorraine Langstroth, 1852, the "father of modern beekeeping"). However, many beginners do not realise just how important it is when it comes to handling. Here in England we still have boxes with both deep and shallow rebates to give top or bottom beespace respectively. Both work well but using a mixture is a disaster. Either bottom bars are glued to tops or the gap is doubled and filled with burr comb. In the struggle to free such combs a normally happy stock can be turned to an aggressive one. As an old hand I have been called out to many unhappy beekeepers who find their bees unmanageable. A few bees are difficult but in the main the fault lay with the beekeeper and his equipment, generally glued up due to wrong spacing. Manufacturers are not always helpful. One finds excluders with fillets on both sides. To fit both top and bottom spacing they should be flush on one side with a quarter inch fillet on the other. An eighth of an inch short on super depth can spoil matters. Supers shrink with time and a simple remedy is a thin fillet nailed to the bottom. With the correct beespace supers lift off cleanly, excluders are not clogged and top bars stay clean, all in all a treat for the bees and the beekeeper. All very obvious really. Regards Sid P. _________________________________________________________________ Sid Pullinger Email : sidpul@aladdin.co.uk 36, Grange Rd Compuserve: 100343.1216@compuserve.com Alresford Hants SO24 9HF England ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 Jan 1997 07:36:38 GMT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Sid Pullinger Subject: Ventilation Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Much discussion on this subject recently and it is clear that no one is certain of the best method, if there is one. A lot or a little, half way, top,bottomor both, beekeepers try them all and most of the time the bees survive. When one considers the range of climate from the tropics to the Arctic there can hardly be one best method for all. Some years ago a well known beekeeper, Bernard Mobus, NDB and Beekeeping Adviser for Scotland, wrote a series of articles titled Damp, Condensation and Ventilation in the Beekeepers Annual for 1988,89,90. These covered some 32 pages of small text and I was so impressed I wrote to him suggesting he made it into a book because ventilation was such an argumentative subject. Unfortunately he declined and shortly after retired to France. We all know that in nature bees do not approve of top ventilation and this was how beekeepers kept them for hundreds of years. Only with the arrival of the modern hive did beekeepers start thinking about it. With the approach of winter bees seal down the cover board with propolis and if any feed holes are covered with gauze that is quickly sealed as well. They are telling us quite clearly they do not want it. In spite of that we see the advice to raise the cover board by one eighth of an inch or make holes or slots in other ways. That gap all round a Langstroth hive, 16.25 by 20 inches, tots up to a chimney of three inches diameter. A little arithmetic will show that this is equivalent to a hole in our bedroom ceiling some three feet by three feet,open to atmosphere. Extra blankets needed. In any hive exposed to winter gales, assuming a bottom entrance, such a chimney must cause a lot of heat loss, so increased food consumption. Back to Mr Mobus. His researches and those of others led him to the following conclusions. In a climate such as in Britain with a distinct winter where the queen stopped laying and the bees clustered for long periods there was an optimum sized cluster, 9000 to14000 bees for successful wintering. Large stocks and small ones had extra problems. No top ventilation but the cover board should have extra insulation. Plenty of bottom ventilation, preferably a hole in the floorboard around a foot square with suitable screening against predators. With regard to the last point I have vague memories of some experiments many years ago where it was shown that bees wintered quite happily without floorboards as long as the hole was suitably screened. Personally I have not yet got around to cutting holes in my floors. Hampshire has a more gentle climate than Scotland. All my bees have no top ventilation. Those outside have full width entrances, but with anti-mice screening, 16 or18 inches by one inch. Those in the beehouse have around 27 square inches. They all seem quite happy with it. Happy New Year to all and thanks to all those regular contributors. May the letters keep coming. Regards Sid P. _________________________________________________________________ Sid Pullinger Email : sidpul@aladdin.co.uk 36, Grange Rd Compuserve: 100343.1216@compuserve.com Alresford Hants SO24 9HF England ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 Jan 1997 07:36:43 GMT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Sid Pullinger Subject: Sleep Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" <<<<<>"Does bee sleep?">>>>>> Well, they have no eyelids so cannot shut their eyes and they certainly cannot lie down as we do so sleep as we know it is impossible. Researchers have established that they take time off work, quite a lot on occasions, so you will have to settle for rest periods instead. Same thing, really. Regards Sid P. _________________________________________________________________ Sid Pullinger Email : sidpul@aladdin.co.uk 36, Grange Rd Compuserve: 100343.1216@compuserve.com Alresford Hants SO24 9HF England ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 Jan 1997 13:07:34 +0000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Alyn W. Ashworth" Subject: Re: BREVITY AND PURPOSE In-Reply-To: <1RPvLGA54PzyEwfz@tfbplc.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 In message <1RPvLGA54PzyEwfz@tfbplc.co.uk>, Dave Black writes >In message <32CB8598.2DC0@cc.umanitoba.ca>, Phil Veldhuis > writes >>If this list is _really_ a discussion of bee biology, then this should >>be respected. >I'd naively supposed >that one 'chatted' in and 'discussed' in >BEE-L. You've hit the nail on the proverbial head. Can we repectfully ask chatters (and that's me, sometimes) to stick to sci.agriculture.beekeeping. I know that discussions go off-subject very often - in which case we should transfer to the appropriate place. -- Alyn W. Ashworth Lancashire & North-West Bee-Keepers' Association. UK. (but I don't speak on their bee-half) ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 Jan 1997 12:09:45 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Joel W. Govostes" Subject: Re: Making Splits Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I think it was Allen who noted that a "split" of 6 frames of brood and bees would produce a surplus of honey the first year. Let me add that this is what I have also found, here in central NY. Often as a swarm control measure, I have pulled 3 frames of (mostly capped) brood with the adhering bees out of strong colonies, also shaking bees from 2-3 more combs. This is usually in mid to late May. Anyhoo, I quickly discovered that if I put these three frames and bees in a hive body, and added three more combs with bees from the next "pruned" hive, then these large "nucs" would invariably produce 2-4 FULL medium supers by the end of the season. [Queens were supplied from introduction cages or raised from q cells present on the 6 combs.] The queens are restricted to the single brood chamber by an excluder, and these strong units invariably put up a great crop. The only thing is, they must be provided with winter stores once the supers come off. The easiest thing to do is to leave one good heavy super on, removing the excluder. So I agree, a six frame split (using combined resources from two full-strength colonies in spring) is very reliable, and can be quite profitable in the same year. We are fortunate in the NE USA as there is usually a fair-excellent fall nectar flow. Without it, the foregoing probably wouldn't work well. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 Jan 1997 12:11:44 -0500 Reply-To: Ian Watson Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ian Watson Subject: Re: rhetoric Comments: To: "Dr. Pedro Rodriguez" In-Reply-To: <32CC666D.3CA2@norfolk.infi.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Thu, 2 Jan 1997, Dr. Pedro Rodriguez wrote: > Dear Bee-L listserv recipients and fellow beekeepers: > A short time ago I joined The Bee-L listserv thinking that I would be > sharing ideas with people who like me had a common interest, love for > honeybees. Never in my wildest imagination thinking that it would be a > forum for "nit-pickers" hell-bent on getting their daily dosis of > excitement from ridiculing their fellow men. I notice with concern that > I use the word honeybee because there is only one of its kind > (regardless of linguistic preferences) while there are thousands of > other bees. I believe that as beekeepers we should distinguish between > the two when we speak about the subject to which we devote so much > attention. I couldn't agree more. I can't understand why any beekeeper would have any aguement with calling the honeybee by a most logical and appropriate name... > In an effort not to offend sensitivities in the future and to > continue enjoying the benefits of "listserv" I promise t become a silent > recipient of its many contributions. Dr. Rodriguez, please continue to offer your obviously high degree of knowledge and research to we fellow beekeepers. Ignore the few (and they are very few) Knit-Pickers who are evidently not concerned with the intent of this list: to share information. Your input, as well as very many other scientists, commercials, and life long hobbyests, are an indispensible source of learning for we beginning beekeepers and most likely most other members; because even long time beekeepers dont know everything. I forget who said it, but it goes something like this: "If You Stop Learning, You're Dead" As far as your use of the English language, we all make spelling errors, myself included. It is small minded to even make reference to them. Now, if this was Spell-l, then it would be another matter....;) Also, I am MOST interested in your new treatment for the mites. I wish it were possible for me to make it to your local convention to hear about it. But I hope you will share it with us here. And again, ignore the knitpickers; there are over 600 beekeepers on this list, and I am sure the vast majority are most receptive to your research....Thank you:) @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ @ Ian Watson @ @ iwatson@freenet.npiec.on.ca @ @ @ @ THREE BEES: @ @ Bach singer ,/// @ @ Bee keeper >8'III}- @ @ Bell ringer ',\\\ @ @ @ @ 4 hives, 2 years in Beekeeping @ @ St. Catharines, Canada @ @ "I BEE, therefore I am" @ @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 Jan 1997 13:12:23 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "(Thomas) (Cornick)" Subject: Beekeeping If I can keep bees inspite of being stung,varroa,thacheal mites,wax moths, swarming, foulbrood, and etc. Then sifting through the Bee L for information and other beekeepers experiances is no problem. As a hobby beekeeper, 15 colonies and growing any information out there can't help but improve my skills or at least furnish me with another question to ponder when the inner cover comes off. Now the commercial operators with a few thousand hives might find the information a bit hard to glean from the various posts but my bet says they built their operations in the field and not at the computer monitor in the first place. It is warm in Se CT today and the bees are out for cleansing flights. One colony is a little late to start and if the weather stays warm I will look beneath the cover to check their strength. I will leave the list when the list owner kicks me off and not before as this is one of the better resources available to me. Thomas Cornick ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 Jan 1997 12:46:54 -0800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: 105085 <105085@netrover.com> Subject: (no subject) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Much discussion on this subject recently and it is clear that no one is certain of the best method, if there is one. A lot or a little, half way, top,bottomor both, beekeepers try them all and most of the time the bees survive. When one considers the range of climate from the tropics to the Arctic there can hardly be one best method for all. Some years ago a well known beekeeper, Bernard Mobus, NDB and Beekeeping Adviser for Scotland, wrote a series of articles titled Damp, Condensation and Ventilation in the Beekeepers Annual for 1988,89,90. These covered some 32 pages of small text and I was so impressed I wrote to him suggesting he made it into a book because ventilation was such an argumentative subject. Unfortunately he declined and shortly after retired to France. We all know that in nature bees do not approve of top ventilation and this was how beekeepers kept them for hundreds of years. Only with the arrival of the modern hive did beekeepers start thinking about it. With the approach of winter bees seal down the cover board with propolis and if any feed holes are covered with gauze that is quickly sealed as well. They are telling us quite clearly they do not want it. In spite of that we see the advice to raise the cover board by one eighth of an inch or make holes or slots in other ways. That gap all round a Langstroth hive, 16.25 by 20 inches, tots up to a chimney of three inches diameter. A little arithmetic will show that this is equivalent to a hole in our bedroom ceiling some three feet by three feet,open to atmosphere. Extra blankets needed. In any hive exposed to winter gales, assuming a bottom entrance, such a chimney must cause a lot of heat loss, so increased food consumption. Back to Mr Mobus. His researches and those of others led him to the following conclusions. In a climate such as in Britain with a distinct winter where the queen stopped laying and the bees clustered for long periods there was an optimum sized cluster, 9000 to14000 bees for successful wintering. Large stocks and small ones had extra problems. No top ventilation but the cover board should have extra insulation. Plenty of bottom ventilation, preferably a hole in the floorboard around a foot square with suitable screening against predators. With regard to the last point I have vague memories of some experiments many years ago where it was shown that bees wintered quite happily without floorboards as long as the hole was suitably screened. Personally I have not yet got around to cutting holes in my floors. Hampshire has a more gentle climate than Scotland. All my bees have no top ventilation. Those outside have full width entrances, but with anti-mice screening, 16 or18 inches by one inch. Those in the beehouse have around 27 square inches. They all seem quite happy with it. Happy New Year to all and thanks to all those regular contributors. May the letters keep coming. Regards Sid P. _________________________________________________________________ Sid Pullinger Email : sidpul@aladdin.co.uk 36, Grange Rd Compuserve: 100343.1216@compuserve.com Alresford Hants SO24 9HF England Much discussion on this subject recently and it is clear that no one is certain of the best method, if there is one. A lot or a little, half way, top,bottomor both, beekeepers try them all and most of the time the bees survive. When one considers the range of climate from the tropics to the Arctic there can hardly be one best method for all. Some years ago a well known beekeeper, Bernard Mobus, NDB and Beekeeping Adviser for Scotland, wrote a series of articles titled Damp, Condensation and Ventilation in the Beekeepers Annual for 1988,89,90. These covered some 32 pages of small text and I was so impressed I wrote to him suggesting he made it into a book because ventilation was such an argumentative subject. Unfortunately he declined and shortly after retired to France. We all know that in nature bees do not approve of top ventilation and this was how beekeepers kept them for hundreds of years. Only with the arrival of the modern hive did beekeepers start thinking about it. With the approach of winter bees seal down the cover board with propolis and if any feed holes are covered with gauze that is quickly sealed as well. They are telling us quite clearly they do not want it. In spite of that we see the advice to raise the cover board by one eighth of an inch or make holes or slots in other ways. That gap all round a Langstroth hive, 16.25 by 20 inches, tots up to a chimney of three inches diameter. A little arithmetic will show that this is equivalent to a hole in our bedroom ceiling some three feet by three feet,open to atmosphere. Extra blankets needed. In any hive exposed to winter gales, assuming a bottom entrance, such a chimney must cause a lot of heat loss, so increased food consumption. Back to Mr Mobus. His researches and those of others led him to the following conclusions. In a climate such as in Britain with a distinct winter where the queen stopped laying and the bees clustered for long periods there was an optimum sized cluster, 9000 to14000 bees for successful wintering. Large stocks and small ones had extra problems. No top ventilation but the cover board should have extra insulation. Plenty of bottom ventilation, preferably a hole in the floorboard around a foot square with suitable screening against predators. With regard to the last point I have vague memories of some experiments many years ago where it was shown that bees wintered quite happily without floorboards as long as the hole was suitably screened. Personally I have not yet got around to cutting holes in my floors. Hampshire has a more gentle climate than Scotland. All my bees have no top ventilation. Those outside have full width entrances, but with anti-mice screening, 16 or18 inches by one inch. Those in the beehouse have around 27 square inches. They all seem quite happy with it. Happy New Year to all and thanks to all those regular contributors. May the letters keep coming. Regards Sid P. _________________________________________________________________ Sid Pullinger Email : sidpul@aladdin.co.uk 36, Grange Rd Compuserve: 100343.1216@compuserve.com Alresford Hants SO24 9HF England ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 Jan 1997 11:22:16 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: jchamberlin Subject: Re: rhetoric Comments: To: Ian Watson In-Reply-To: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Dr. Rodriguez, Your inputs are very interesting and your English is probably better than mine (a native speaker). Keep on posting. j chamberlin ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Jan 1997 01:52:17 -0800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Kevin Dawson Subject: Signing off Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I have long since deleted the email that describes how to sign off from this list. Can someone please re-email it to me so I can find out how to stop receiving this list? Thank, Kevin. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 Jan 1997 15:54:16 -0500 Reply-To: beeworks@muskoka.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: David Eyre Organization: beeworks Subject: Re: Making Splits MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Harry Sweet wrote > on the singles. I split the doubles and triples in late march, let the > queenless hives make a queen on their own or add a frame with > fresh eggs or find a queencell in one of the queenright colonies. > I expect an active swarm season like last year. I've had no losses > to mites in 4 years. I use only apistan in march, july, and november Regretfully this method will invariably produce poor queens, even runts. Queens made under panic conditions (emergency) will be poor and will not last long. Then the bees set too and superscede the queen just made. In the meantime brooding will suffer and the hive will decline before being restored to normal. A better suggestion would be to ensure that queen cells made from older larvae are cut out, and only the right aged larvae are allowed to develop. ********************************************************* The Bee Works, 9 Progress Drive Unit 2, Orillia, Ontario, Canada. L3V 6H1 David Eyre, Owner. Phone/Fax 705 326 7171 Agents for E.H.Thorne & B.J.Sherriff UK http://www.muskoka.net/~beeworks ********************************************************* ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 Jan 1997 16:16:00 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Palm, Kevin R. (LLP)" Subject: Bees and bullets Hello all, I just wanted to add my $0.02 to the discussion about brevity and purpose. I am still a novice beekeeper, entering my third year, and I have found some of the "chatting" on BEE-L about beekeeping practices all over the world to be invaluable. How else would I have learned about Top Bar Hives, which I am planning to start this spring?? Of course, I realize that I am not one of the "purists", utilizing the list to discuss pure biology, so my affirmation of this practice will probably hold little weight with the scientists, researchers, and other professionals on the list. A while back, Allen proposed splitting up BEE-L, having a separate mailing list for the science-oriented and one for the beekeepers, hobbyist, commercial, sideliner, just interested. At the time, I didn't think that this would be a good idea, as I thought of BEE-L as a kind of "ask the experts" type of forum. I can see now that I was mistaken, and that the "experts", by both their silence and their migration away from the list, feel that way as well. How difficult would it be to start another mailing list, either exclusively for researchers/scientists, or for the general beekeeping public, as BEE-L appears to be today?? Would it help solve this seemingly unsolvable problem?? I do think that Allen has a good idea with his web page, but some of us have little or no web access, even today. I think that an email solution (whatever it may end up being) should be the way to reach the maximum number of beekeepers who would benefit. Just my opinion of the situation, FWIW. Kevin Palm Grafton, Ohio ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 Jan 1997 17:42:14 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Bill Miller Subject: Re: Making Splits When to make a split? Assuming queens are available, I make splits about two weeks before the start of the swarming period. In my Washington, DC area I try for the second week in April. How to make a split? 1. If you've never done this before, enlist the help of someone who has. 2. Select a hive with a good population to split. Assuming you use deeps: 2. Set up your split hive with one box, new frames and undrawn foundation. Pull three of the new frames out of the box. 3, Remove from your strong hive three frames. One should be mostly honey, while the other two should have uncapped larvae and old capped brood. Ther should also be lots of bees on the frames. 4. Inspect these frames for the queen. When you are satisfied the queen is not on a frame, put it in the center of your split hive. Group all three frames you took from your strong hive together. 4a. If the queen is on one of the frames you selected, take her off that frame and put her back in the strong hive from whence she came. 5. Install the three foundation frames you removed from the new hive as end frames in the strong hive you just split. Close up the strong hive. 6. Install your new queen in the split hive you just created using normal queen introduction methods. 7. Install a gallon of 1/1 sugar syrup feed on the split hive. This will jump-start things. You may also want to install an entrance reducer. 8. Close up the new colony, and don't touch it for a week - 10 days. 9. Remove the queen cage from the new colony. Check for new eggs to show the new queen has been accepted. 10. Manage the new colony like a first-year package colony. If you use medium brood chambers like me, make your splits with 4 frames from the parent colony. By the way, splits are a great swarm control technique, as they radically reduce congestion in the colony. If you wish, you can re-unite a split with the orignial parent colony when the honeyflow starts and add to your honey production (as well as requeen your colony). Splits are also a good source of cash. This year, I will be selling my splits for $50/each. W. G. Miller Gaithersburg, MD ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 Jan 1997 16:47:45 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jerry J Bromenshenk Subject: Re: Bees and bullets In-Reply-To: from "Palm, Kevin R." at Jan 3, 97 04:16:00 pm MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I oppose splitting just to do what was originally intended. Bee-L was started to talk about bee biology. The diversity of hobbiests, commercial beekeepers, apicultural inspectors, and researchers adds to the information exchange. The problem should not be re-starting lists. At issue is the purpose, which people quickly forget. The objective is to discuss bee biology - if we could stick to that topic, it wouldn't matter who made up the list and there would be no need to split. Jerry Bromenshenk jjbmail@selway.umt.edu ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 Jan 1997 19:22:57 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Janet Montgomery & Dan Veilleux Subject: Beelist content Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" It must be the low light and long winter nignts that get some of our members a little frustrated..We had a flame war about this time last year PLEASE CHILDREN STOP THE SQUABBLING. I for one look forward to ALL discussions and quickly know where a thread is going and if I'm not interested I have a good wastebasket. I have learned a lot from this list and have requested help on two occasions and received great advice THANK YOU MEMBERS One of the strengths of this list, in my opinion ,is the diversity of it's members. The very fact that we have commercial, hobbiests, scientiests, casual, intensive people keeping bees from Sweden, UK, Hawaii, Alberta, Ontario, Kansas, North Carolina, Mass, etc.... All of us try to figure out what these interesting, frustrating and challanging critters called bees are going to do next.. I sometimes feel like a hound dog chasing a rabbit .. just when I think I might know where they are going they hop to the side... Humility from Mother nature is Her way KEEP DISCUSSING AND NOT CUSSING Dan Veilleux Columbus , Ohio USA , Janet Montgomery 104 Fallis Road Columbus, Ohio 43214-3724 Home: (614) 784-8334 FAX: (614) 268-3107 E-mail: montgomery.1@osu.edu ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 Jan 1997 15:54:26 -0800 Reply-To: alwine@dreamcom.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Al Needham Subject: Re: Bees and bullets MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jerry J Bromenshenk wrote: > The objective is to discuss bee > biology - if we could stick to that topic... Jerry and others - perhaps we need a definition of "bee biology". I would tend to see that as pretty scientific. So...what would be the parameters of that definition? Loose or tight? Al -- * Al Needham - Scituate,MA,USA - Alwine@dreamcom.net * * >"The HoneyBee" An Educational Software Program V2.0< * * ALL NEW 1997 VERSION 2.0 WITH A SLIDE SHOW! * * Available from Sweden at: Http://www.kuai.se/~beeman/ * * A Web Site Worth Visiting For The Photography Alone * ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 Jan 1997 16:43:45 -0800 Reply-To: alwine@dreamcom.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Al Needham Subject: Who are we? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To whomever: Looking at the variety of comments - I have been thinking that perhaps it would be just best to leave BEE_L as it is - undergoing a periodic spate of adjustments - kind of like real life marriage :). It will all settle down in a bit if we have some patience with each other! Remember, for many of us it is a case of time on our hands during the cold months. I feel that once the Spring begins to settle in, most of us will have long forgotten our current mode of dissension and disagreement. It sort of reminds me of the fact that I used to get very annoyed with my wife because she never replaced the empty toilet paper roll. Later, thinking more clearly, I thought - is a roll of lousy toilet paper worth having a big row and risking breaking up what is essentially a good marriage with a great mother for "our" son? Before you consider flaming me with "What does that have to do with Bees and BEE-L? .....Think about it..... Al -- * Al Needham - Scituate,MA,USA - Alwine@dreamcom.net * * >"The HoneyBee" An Educational Software Program V2.0< * * ALL NEW 1997 VERSION 2.0 WITH A SLIDE SHOW! * * Available from Sweden at: Http://www.kuai.se/~beeman/ * * A Web Site Worth Visiting For The Photography Alone * ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 Jan 1997 21:02:53 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Mike Worrell Subject: Re: Who are we? Comments: To: alwine@dreamcom.net I just resubscribed to the BEE-L after having been off about 1 year to date. Interestingly enough this same discussion was going on then. Thought it might have been resoved in a years time. Mike ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 Jan 1997 21:57:51 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Gerry Visel Subject: Bees & Bullets My $.02, FWIW: I like it the way it is. Not all of us have internet access at home; some have email only. The variety of inputters to this list only add to the variety (and the quality?) of the discussion, and challenge all to review their assumptions. (Example: I had assumed, from our bee club members' advice, that terramyacin was broken down by water, and shared it here. I was gently corrected.) I have learned much here from others sharing. The internet is no longer just the property of the universities/governments, but is very inclusive now of many different backgrounds. This is actually an improvement! There are real people here! Personally, I think this is one of the _better_ disciplined groups I have seen on the net, even with the "divergent" discussions. (I have yet to see vulgarity, profanity, etc.) I may not agree with some of the inputs, but I'll defend the rights of all to input them! I value and cherish them all, (and use my delete button judiciously ;-].) This list gives us all an opportunity to meet people from the world over with similar interests. We just gotta all learn to get along. Count your blessings! Gerry and the other Visels at Visel7@juno.com Winnebago, Illinois, USA ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 Jan 1997 21:16:37 -0600 Reply-To: bbirkey@interaccess.com Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Barry Birkey Organization: Birkey.Com Subject: Re: Who are we? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Al Needham wrote: > > To whomever: Good thing you didn't narrowly define that or I might have been one of those on the outs. > Looking at the variety of comments - I have been thinking that perhaps > it would be just best to leave BEE_L as it is - undergoing a periodic > spate of adjustments - kind of like real life marriage :). I wouldn't do that, Al, as I enjoy too much your way with words. Besides, just like real life marriage, the ones that last are the ones where both partners are commited to staying through thick and thin. > Remember, for many of us it is a case of time on our hands during the > cold months. I feel that once the Spring begins to settle in, most of us > will have long forgotten our current mode of dissension and > disagreement. I think you're right on the mark. I also believe that given the fact that there are over 600 people on this list and that probably only 1/10th of those post on a somewhat regular basis, then the remaining 9/10th's must know how to use the delete button for threads that don't interest them and that they will continue to enjoy those that do. Otherwise the numbers would be going down on the list, not up. I like Bee-L the way it is as it covers a wide range and I can be in control of what I want to read. > Before you consider flaming me with "What does that have to do with Bees > and BEE-L? .....Think about it..... I thought about it and that's why you got this, Al ;) I would also like to point out that I have observed with interest how those who are the quickest to voice their disgust with those who might write something that isn't strictly about "honeybee whatever" (their view of what is or isn't acceptable), they can be the very ones who liberally take the freedom to talk about all the non-bee related biology they want. Maybe those few who are unhappy with the way Bee-L goes should use that simple command, "unsubscribe". That's always an option. Anyway, everybody keep those e-mails coming as I too enjoy the wide spectrum of interest and knowledge displayed here and from all the ends of the earth that it comes from. -Barry -- Barry Birkey West Chicago, Illinois USA bbirkey@interaccess.com http://www.birkey.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 Jan 1997 22:24:36 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Dave Green, Eastern Pollinator Newsletter" Subject: Re: Drones In a message dated 97-01-01 09:02:29 EST, beekeepr@cdc.net (Frank Humphrey) writes: << I observed the bees removing drones from the hives back in late August and normally I don't see any more until spring. All colonies appear to be healthy with plenty of stores. Has anyone seen drones in their hives at this time of year? I don't think I have a problem, it is just unusual to see drones at this time of year. >> It's not unusual here, particularly in a strong hive. Some winters we keep drones the entire winter. But one cold spell will get them tossed in a hurry! You aren't too far north of us (Tennesee). Looks to me like a complement on your beekeeping. Your hives are strong. Pollinator@aol.com Dave Green, PO Box 1200, Hemingway, SC 29554 (Dave & Jan's Pollination Service, Pot o'Gold Honey Co.) Practical Pollination Home Page Dave & Janice Green http://users.aol.com/pollinator/polpage1.html Jan's Sweetness and Light Varietal Honeys and Gift Sets http://users.aol.com/SweetnessL/sweetlit.htm ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 Jan 1997 23:51:21 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Richard Chapin Subject: Re: Drones Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ><< I observed the bees removing drones from the > hives back in late August and normally I don't see any more until spring. > All colonies appear to be healthy with plenty of stores. Has anyone seen > drones in their hives at this time of year? I don't think I have a > problem, it is just unusual to see drones at this time of year. >> > > It's not unusual here, particularly in a strong hive. Some winters we keep >drones the entire winter. But one cold spell will get them tossed in a >hurry! You aren't too far north of us (Tennesee). Today, on our first (and probably only) warm (55 F) winter day, with cleansing flights possible, I observed one drone, from my most defensive colony, along with the other aged casualties in front of the hive. From his condition, he could not have been dead very long. On the subject of "who are we?", many of us may not respond often, but we are there every day (or late at night), reading, learning, and being grateful for this list, despite the self-appointed "police" :) Yes, we are a "family", for better or for worse, because we are the ones on line who care about these magnificent creatures. Richard Chapin Montrose, PA, USA (\ -----------{| | |8- (/ ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 4 Jan 1997 00:36:46 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Dave Green, Eastern Pollinator Newsletter" Subject: Re: Roundup In a message dated 97-01-03 01:33:14 EST, bolder@juno.com (Stuart E Grant) writes: << I appreciate those of you who have responded. Currently the discussion seems to have moved into the philosophical debate stage. That debate probably needs to take place BUT it doesn't answer my original question. What happens to a bee sprayed with the herbicide and can I require(by State law) that there be restrictions as to time of day? >> Stuart, pesticides that are toxic to bees have specific bee directions on the label. I don't have a Roundup label handy at present, but I very much doubt that there are any bee directions. I have only seen these on insecticides, where they are listed under "Environmental Hazards." Compliance with the directions is required by law. I suppose a bee that is saturated with Roundup might suffer or die, but it is not very toxic. I use it around beehives, especially during the main growth spurt, to keep down weeds around the hive entrances. I always felt that blocked entrances would do more harm. My bees are scattered across many miles, and I don't see the hives often enough. So I doubt that you could insist on any time period in this case. If it were Sevin, or something similar, I sure as the dickens WOULD insist. More beekeepers should be insisiting, instead of running. After a while there is no place to run to. Hope this helps. Pollinator@aol.com Dave Green, PO Box 1200, Hemingway, SC 29554 (Dave & Jan's Pollination Service, Pot o'Gold Honey Co.) Practical Pollination Home Page Dave & Janice Green http://users.aol.com/pollinator/polpage1.html Jan's Sweetness and Light Varietal Honeys and Gift Sets http://users.aol.com/SweetnessL/sweetlit.htm ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 4 Jan 1997 04:27:00 GMT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Andy Nachbaur Organization: WILD BEE'S BBS (209) 826-8107 LOS BANOS, CA Subject: A (serious) PLEA FOR BREVITY PV>I have periodically reviewed the subscriber list of Bee-L and I have >noticed a strong trend for the "professionals" (i.e. those people _paid_ >to offer info and support to beekeepers) to turn over faster than >average subscribers. I suggest that if you want these people to read >and reply to your questions, don't fill their mailboxes up with comments >about your local weather. Hi Phil and Bee Friends, I am sure it is no surprise to any that I don't agree with any of your post, but I won't take it apart other then this one area... It is up to these individual who claim to be "professional" to earn their own pay and not the lowly beekeeper to bend his knee. Any good so called "professional" who can not make his point in verbal discussion should not be at the public hog trough anyway. I am a professional beekeeper myself and I don't receive a dime to post here or any other place, but as long as I feel I have something to contribute I will post even knowing that some so called "professionals" don't like my own personal style of posting and are even less interested in my opinions. Many do take the time to read it all from cover to cover anyway, and I am pleasantly surprised all the time when some even agree that our bee world is not a perfect place and our science is not exact but we all still have to live together and that includes the professionals be they in paid by some branch of government or by the sweat of their bodies and the honey their bees produce or the crops their bees pollinate or just with the joy in watching their own apiary big or small. Personally I am very interested in all local beekeeper reports, and I would like to see a never ending tread from the beekeeper regardless if they are professional or not on topics such as WEATHER and how it is effecting your bees this day, MITES and what worked for you or did not work in your efforts to control them, BEE STOCK, bee it made in America or imported from Africa, and anything else that they want to post on. Let the professional stand in line a year or more to get his own professional "for sale" information published if he can not join the real time world of beekeepers on the internet and share a little of his time in reading and posting in this echo or any other. I personally suspect the work of any professional who can not take the heat of the public view on their own opinions scientific or not, and maybe they should not publish or post them and have their subordinates read this list if it has become too large to manage with their available time. In any case its their loss and not ours. The Weather which every beekeeper in this area knows is the number one consideration in producing the pasture we all need at least here in Central California. We never get enough rain, thats right, the water is causing misery to many people right now here in California especially to those who build and live in the flood plains and I am sure even a few bee hives will be lost or maybe a lot and I can hear my neighbor beekeepers on the local bee radio network talking about helping each other in moving and checking bees that may be in danger of the floods that are coming down the rivers right now as I write this. These losses are just gifts from man to the rain Gods in thanks for the next storm. And with the 100 year flood comes a profusion of flowers, some not seen for a 100 years since the last flood to provide pasture for our bees and such beauty to this area that normally is a desert with less then 10 inches of annual rainfall that now has received a years supply several months before the end of our rainy season. ttul Andy- (c) Permission is granted to freely copy this document in any form, or to print for any use. (w)Opinions are not necessarily facts. Use at own risk. --- ~ QMPro 1.53 ~ ... Where bee-hives range on a gray bench in the garden, ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 4 Jan 1997 01:34:08 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Stuart E Grant Subject: Re: Roundup Dave... I doubt that you could insist on any time period in this case. >If it >were Sevin, or something similar, I sure as the dickens WOULD insist. >More >beekeepers should be insisiting, instead of running. After a while >there is >no place to run to. Stuart... Thanks Dave. I think it was Allen who noted the very real danger of chemical applications becoming routine. Today Roundup, next year, whatever the Monsanto sales office manages to sell the County. Point Roberts has been spared spraying for the past 6 years after locals were able to get it declared a 'sensitive' area. That law, while still in effect, allows spraying a 12 inch roadside swath where the situation warrants it(whatever 'warrants it' means). The Point is virtually an island (5 sq. mi. of isthmus attached to the British Columbia mainland and separated from the rest of the US by Boundary Bay). There was one listmember who commented on the relative toxicity of Roundup to other herbicides but I found his explanation a little technical. Can anyone explain just how Roundup works(I've been told its a dessicant), and how it breaks down in simple language. Perhaps the fears of those of us who worry about its effect on our charges could be allayed with a little simple information. ...Stuart ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ...Stuart Grant,(49degrees N; 123 degrees, 20 min W; elevation 20m; Strait of Georgia 2k; rural urban combination in temperate rainforest setting) _----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 Jan 1997 21:14:19 -1000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Bob St. John" Subject: Re: A (serious) PLEA FOR BREVITY In-Reply-To: <970103214105246@beenet.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >I am sure it is no surprise to any that I don't agree with any of your >post, but I won't take it apart other then this one area... > I have known Andy for more than 35 years and am a bit older than he is. I suspect we are both in some form of 2nd childhood and I highly recommend it. I grew up as a commercial beekeeper. I don't always agree with Andy but he is right this time. We all read what intrerests us and skip what doesn't. Us old geezers enjoy helping young whippersnappers. And we can sometimes learn a lot from the rankest amateur. Neither Andy nor I know everything unless we are agrueing with each other. Aloha Bob ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 4 Jan 1997 09:05:53 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Stan Sandler Subject: creosote and some alternatives Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hello All: The recent thread about painting supers with creosote made me decide to forward this news item to the list, and briefly note some alternatives. > ===================================== > P A N U P S > *** > Pesticide Action Network > North America > Updates Service > http://www.panna.org/panna/ > ===================================== > >January 3, 1997 > >California Bans Pesticides > >After requesting that studies be submitted on the toxicity of >200 chemicals commonly used in pesticides, officials at the >California Department of Pesticide Regulation (DPR) have >decided that not enough is known about three of these >chemicals to allow their continued use in the state. On >October 1, 1996, the department suspended 21 pesticide >products that contain the fungicide chloreneb, the wood >preservative creosote, and aromatic petroleum distillates, >which are commonly used in insecticides. I have used creosote around the farm quite a bit and find it has several obnoxious qualities. One which would worry me about using it on supers is that it continues to give off vapours for years. I dont think that several months airing would be sufficient. Just look at wharf timbers (used them in my pole barn) or old railroad ties (used them for all kinds of stuff including bee stands on occasion). Creosote will often keep migrating to the surface on a hot day. Admittedly these have been pressure treated, however I would worry about very small amounts continuing to vaporize near bees and honey. Alternatives: Pentachlorophenol: I wouldn't touch the stuff. Copper Napthenate and Zinc Napthenate: Pretty good alternatives in my opinion. Look at the warnings on the container. The listed uses include many places other preservatives are not allowed. A 2% solution of copper napthenate is used for wood preserving and a 35% solution can be poured directly on and in a wound as an astringent (in cattle) so it is not that toxic. Copper Sulphate: This has a longer history of fungicide use than probably any other product. It is poison but not so much as you would think. It is commonly used for dipping cattle feet in for foot rot and one time I had a cow with severe winter dystentery. The vet told me I could try giving her a half a teaspoon of copper sulphate in solution as an oral drench. I was aghast, because one is always warned not to let cows lick freshly dipped fenceposts in this. But I did, and it worked. Copper sulphate is water soluble and goes into the wood and then crystallizes. It continues to migrate to moist areas afterwards and provide protection. I have the oldest section of my pole barn using home dipped poles in copper sulphate that are in manure much of the time and show not the slightest bit of decay in 20 years. The pole with the water bowl attached is bright blue where the wet area keeps drawing the copper sulphate. Best method of application: Cut the trees in the spring when the sap is flowing. Peel them (its easiest when the sap flow is strongest). Upend the poles in barrels (must be plastic or wood, not metal) or buckets of copper sulphate solution the same day that they are cut, before the wood capillaries have lost their "prime". Just the butts have to be in solution. Keep the solution topped up as the poles suck it up. I had the stuff migrate to the CENTRE of the TOP of 30 foot poles (each pole probably sucked up five to ten gallons, but these were big.) When the stuff has dried the logs could be milled for hive stands or pallets. Wait several months for the lumber to dry or your nails will rot out very very quickly and galvanized stuff is no better than plain when in contact with copper sulphate (this is its main drawback). Once dry just use a little bigger nails than you normally would. I realize most people don't cut their own logs for milling, but I thought with over 600 people on the list maybe a few do, and maybe one would be interested and maybe the list would forgive me for not being as brief as I might have been. sorry. stan P.S. Copper sulphate is also called bluestone or blue vitriol, but NOT prussic acid as a recent post suggested. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 4 Jan 1997 08:12:55 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Janet Montgomery & Dan Veilleux Subject: Re: Roundup Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Roundup is a systemic broad spectrum herbicide .. when sprayed on grasses or broadleaved plants it is taken into the plant in a matter of hours and translocated throughout the plant. The plants start to show symptoms in 2-10 days- sooner on herbacious plants , longer on woody species. It kills the plant by interupting amino acid sunthesis and hence protein formation.. It is tied up on the soil almost immediately and begins to be broken down by microbial action. That is why it is so widely used in sensitive biologiocal situations because it does not leave any soil residue or create no off site movement problems. I hope this is a little more straight forward than my last post. DAN VEILLEUX COLUMBUS , OHIO USA At 01:34 AM 1/4/97 EST, you wrote: >Dave... > I doubt that you could insist on any time period in this case. >>If it >>were Sevin, or something similar, I sure as the dickens WOULD insist. >>More >>beekeepers should be insisiting, instead of running. After a while >>there is >>no place to run to. > >Stuart... > >Thanks Dave. I think it was Allen who noted the very real danger of >chemical applications becoming routine. Today Roundup, next year, >whatever the Monsanto sales office manages to sell the County. > >Point Roberts has been spared spraying for the past 6 years after locals >were able to get it declared a 'sensitive' area. That law, while still >in effect, allows spraying a 12 inch roadside swath where the situation >warrants it(whatever 'warrants it' means). >The Point is virtually an island (5 sq. mi. of isthmus attached to the >British Columbia mainland and separated from the rest of the US by >Boundary Bay). > >There was one listmember who commented on the relative toxicity of >Roundup to other herbicides but I found his explanation a little >technical. Can anyone explain just how Roundup works(I've been told its >a dessicant), and how it breaks down in simple language. Perhaps the >fears of those of us who worry about its effect on our charges could be >allayed with a little simple information. > >...Stuart >--------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------- > >...Stuart Grant,(49degrees N; 123 degrees, 20 min W; elevation 20m; >Strait of Georgia 2k; rural urban combination in temperate rainforest >setting) > >_-------------------------------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------------- > > Janet Montgomery 104 Fallis Road Columbus, Ohio 43214-3724 Home: (614) 784-8334 FAX: (614) 268-3107 E-mail: montgomery.1@osu.edu ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 4 Jan 1997 08:12:58 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Janet Montgomery & Dan Veilleux Subject: WHO ARE WE? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I believe we are closer to a chat and lurkers group-- with 600 members we must offer something or as we all realize, lists can be a real pain to keep cleaned up. I don't know how many regularly post but I would guess less than 50. I have noticed that very few University and other "research types" (don't get upset as we all do some reaearch) post to this list.. I believe that by the nature a list that the mail just swamps their E mail and becomes a problem to wade through. At least I hope so, and I hope it is not dis-interest on their part. There are some some very good web sites at Florida, Montana,, Sweden that I have pulled off this list that could offer the members a lead for E mail contacts if one would wish to explore a subject .. I believe this list acts as a clearing house for information, help, resources and above all a repository of experience that even "the University types should be monitoring and contributing to"--at least informing us of what research is going on. THE LIST IS A LIVING THING AND WILL EBB AND FLOW AS THE MEMBERS WISH BY PARTICIPATION RELAX AND ENJOY Dan Veilleux Columbus, Ohio USA Janet Montgomery 104 Fallis Road Columbus, Ohio 43214-3724 Home: (614) 784-8334 FAX: (614) 268-3107 E-mail: montgomery.1@osu.edu ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 4 Jan 1997 09:43:44 -0600 Reply-To: dvisrael@earthlink.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Donald V Israel Subject: Re: Bees and bullets MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Where did you get your plans for the top bar hive. I have some but they leave a lot to the imagination. Will you share your info with me please? Don in > > Just my opinion of the situation, FWIW. > > Kevin Palm > Grafton, Ohio ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 4 Jan 1997 13:44:48 GMT Reply-To: Tim_Sterrett@westtown.edu Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Tim Sterrett Organization: Westtown School Subject: Trivia: Bee Stings In response to a question in 1995 (How many times does a beekeeper get stung in a year?), I kept a record of the number of times I was stung in 1996. The answer: 33 stings. I have six colonies of bees (all obtained from swarms before 1996), work them only during the day on good weather days, own gloves but did not wear them, wear shorts and a tee shirt (and a headnet) to work the bees. I hived nine swarms last spring. Tim Tim Sterrett Westtown, (Southeastern) Pennsylvania, USA tim_sterrett@westtown.edu ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 4 Jan 1997 10:19:56 -0600 Reply-To: dvisrael@earthlink.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Donald V Israel Subject: Bullets and flames MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Andy Nachbaur, Thanks for your post today, There were several out there today that were good but yours was the best. It is foggy and 50 degrees today in eastern NC but promises to be sunny so my honey bees can get out. Yesterday I opened up a hive to transfer the bees to another box(my first hive and I nailed ang glued the bottom board on and it is moldy). I noticed a lot of larva in a couple of frames. The honey bees are bringing in nectur and pollan from somewhere. It is unseasonably warm for this time of year. What does this do to the biological clock there has been so much talk about lately? I posted about testing for mites and found dead ones in the trap or on the sticky paper yust a few hours after putting the strips on but they quit falling over the next few days. There in very little sealed boeed to no sealed brood in the hives. Maybe I don't have as big a problem as I thought. I'll leave the strips on for six weeks to make sure I get them all since our build up has started. No one answered my request for info on how to round up honey bees from 80 feet in a pine tree.(round up as in cattle not poison them). It haooened to me two times last year and I lost them. Honey Bee friend Don ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 4 Jan 1997 09:22:12 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Frederick L. Hollen" Subject: Re: rhetoric In-Reply-To: ; from "jchamberlin" at Jan 3, 97 11:22 am According to jchamberlin: > > Dr. Rodriguez, > Your inputs are very interesting and your English is probably better than > mine (a native speaker). Keep on posting. > > j chamberlin > I fully agree . Fred ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 4 Jan 1997 09:37:04 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Ralph W. Harrison" Subject: JUST A THOUGHT For want of a nail a horseshoe was lost For want of a horse a rider was lost For want of a rider a battle was lost and so on and on There was a posting to the Bee-L (nothing to do with bee biology) this past summer from a beekeeper in Germany who had friends who were beekeepers but not on the the internet. They were going to visit New York City and wanted to meet beekeepers in the area. If it were not for that posting members of the Western CT Beekeepers Association would have lost the opportunity of a fabulous presentation by Otto and Karin Hilpoltsteiner on beekeeping in Germany and very interesting look into their beekeeping operation. I am sure that other things of this nature have happened through other postings on the BEE-L. To have tunnel vision is to not get the whole picture. Ralph Harrison Western Connecticut Beekeepers Association Milford, Connecticut, USA ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 4 Jan 1997 16:35:40 EEST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Georgi Stoilov Subject: Beeking in Bulgaria Dear BEE-Lers, I am from Bulgaria, a Balkan Penninsula country North of Greece. Though our country has tremendous problems now, beeking is still alive and flourishing. What I am intersted in the moment are statistics about honey and oher bee products volumes and prices CIF or EXW basis. Can you provide me with such info or at least with clues where to check for it. Thanks in advance Georgi Stoilov ********************************************************* Georgi Stoilov |tel: +359 73 25421 ext.202 Career Center Coordinator |fax: +359 73 251-68 American University in Bulgaria|e-mail: Georgi@sa.aubg.bg Blagoevgrad 2700 | Bulgaria WorldWideWeb: http:\\www.aubg.bg\offices\Career ********************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 4 Jan 1997 09:56:02 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Frank Humphrey Subject: Re: Roundup MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit With roundup reseeding can be done in 10 days to 2 weeks. It might not be a bad idea to purchase some White Dutch clover seed & keep them in your car. When you are traveling your local roads and see a bare spot, throw some seed on in passing. If this short clover can get a toehold, it tends to choke out most everything else. If the clover becomes dominant, there would be no need for further spraying and it would be great forage for both wild and domestic bees. Frank Humphrey beekeepr@cdc.net ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 4 Jan 1997 10:49:33 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "(Thomas) (Cornick)" Subject: Re: Roundup In a message dated 97-01-04 10:04:29 EST, you write: << With roundup reseeding can be done in 10 days to 2 weeks. It might not be a bad idea to purchase some White Dutch clover seed & keep them in your car. When you are traveling your local roads and see a bare spot, throw some seed on in passing. If this short clover can get a toehold, it tends to choke out most everything else. If the clover becomes dominant, there would be no need for further spraying and it would be great forage for both wild and domestic bees. >> Funny I wonder how many guerilla bee forage planters are out there. I have salt shakers filled with seeds that go with me on dog walks. white clover , birdsfoot trefoil, sweet clover, and anise hyssop ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 Jan 1997 11:50:32 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: MIDNITEBEE Subject: Montana beekeepers MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Are there beekeepers in Montanna selling beeswax to the locals? ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 4 Jan 1997 06:55:39 -1000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Walter Patton Subject: Spelling help MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Aloha to all bee-liners and happy new year Before this group gets split up into sophisticated sub (snoot) groups could I seek info from the group about the correct spelling of our beloved. Is it HONEYBEE or is it HONEY BEE. I see it both ways and I'm sure some old drones or GOV.paid professionals will be able to set me straight on this matter. Regarding this list I vote to leave it alone save and except if we could find a way to make the members get a little more pro-actice.I mean really the sweet little dialogue about re-queening and swarm retrevial,etc are interesting and sometimes informative and yet still leaves a lot to be desired as far as really trying to solve the real issues facing beekeepers today.Several good questions have been raised and if the question is at all thorney everyone shys away because we do not have the answers and we all feel that it is hopeless to push for research help.We should not give up we should get organized. Each of us has only one voice that can only be heard so well and if the beekeepers of the U.S. could some how get organized and working a plan we could have a major impact on the future of U.S. beekeeping.This group of 4,5,or 600 could be the driving force.No one else seems to want to lead the charge and often there is a conflict of interest (National Organizations) or a fear of retaliation (Publications) At any rate the brave beekeepers get no real help. I for one am greatly concerned about saving the U.S. beekeepers and food production and prices like in the past. We beekeepers have been abandoned by researchers for special interest groups. Here in America EVERYTHING is for sale and can be bought for a price after all this is America and MONEY talks in this mercenary U.S. of A. Well Aloha to all and Spring has sprung here in Hawaii and the bees are building in some areas. come visit Walter Walter Patton-Hawaiian Honey House and Hale Lamalani B & B (House of Heavenly Light) A Hawaii Beekeeper's Bed & Breakfast 27-703A Kaieie Rd.,Papaikou,HI. 96781 Ph./Fax 808-964-5401 or hihoney@ilhawaii.net http:\www.alohamall.com/hamakua/hihoney/htm. "TheBeehive,The Fountain of Youth and Health" ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 4 Jan 1997 12:33:31 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Faith Andrews Bedford Subject: Re: "Mother Nature" and wild bees rescuing us? Dave, Thanks for your comments about pollination. I am a writer and often do pieces on nature and nature-related subjects, especially bees, for the lay public. If I can work some of your well-phrased facts into upcoming work, I certainly shall. Stuff like this needs to be put before the public's eye, in any manner any of us can manage. I hope that other Bee-liners will be able to spread the (accurate) word as well. Faith Andrews Bedford Ivy, VA and Tampa, Fl ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 4 Jan 1997 12:33:34 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Faith Andrews Bedford Subject: Re: Beeswax Recipes Dear Mike: On New Year's Day, you posted a request for instructions for making "ear candles." I am fascinated. As a woman, I wear ear rings (but then, so does my son - just one, tho'), and I've heard of "ear wax" ( not to be confused with bees' wax), and have owned "ear muffs" but this is a new one on me. I'm fascinated and am sure I'm not the only one. Won't you please enlighten us Beefolk? I don't think that one can collect enough ear wax to make candles (disgusting thought) and the idea of fitting candles to my ears is intriguing but sounds dangerous. The only other thought - candles in the shape of ears - sounds a bit bizarre, but then each to his/her own taste. I look forward to hearing just what they are! Faith Andrews Bedford Ivy VA and Tampa FL ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 4 Jan 1997 12:42:28 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Joel W. Govostes" Subject: Re: Spelling help Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" According to Roger Morse, the correct form is "honey bee." Like bumble bee, sweat bee, carpenter bee, etc. Some other names are correct all in one: dragonfly housefly butterfly Honeybee, honey bee, hon eybee -- still we are talking about the same thing. There is no law requiring strict adherence, but the major entomological societies have settled on the "official" form, "honey bee" as the common name for Apis mellifera. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 4 Jan 1997 12:43:58 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Carl H. Powell" Subject: Feeding hive * Originally By: Int:dronebee@norfolk.infi * Originally To: Watchman * Originally Re: Feeding hive * Original Date: 01-02-97 10:00 * Original Area: E-mail * Forwarded by : Blue Wave/386 v2.20 bee-l@cnsibm.albany.edu wrote: > > > patties of shortening and granulated sugar but I've read somewhere that > > beekeepers sometimes provide granulated sugar alone. What can you tell a > > Though you can feed dry sugar to good effect, for this situation I'd > avoid it. Dry sugar feeding has the advantages of easy, little or > no extra gear, clean, no spilled syrup to cause robbing, little/no > stimulation of the queen's egg laying. But it is at a cost. The > bees to handle it must liquify it themselves, then evaporate off the > excess again - there is an energy conversion factor which means for > any given quantity of sugar, feeding it dry will result in less > stores overall. > > Murray Reid, one of NZ's bee advisory officers who reads this list, > wrote a good article on this some years back - I'll see if I can > find it. > > But for your situation, Marcia, I'd feed with as heavy a sugar syrup > as I could make (just at the point of maximum saturation) (knowing > that this will probably cause some responses from the others on the > list!!!) > > How to feed? Personal preference plays a lot in it. As it isn't > extreme cold you're dealing with, it doesn't matter so much, so > either over the broodnest with jar, Boardman feeder at entrance, > division board feeder or over the top type feeder - machts nichts! > > (\ Nick Wallingford > {|||8- home nickw@wave.co.nz > (/ work nw1@boppoly.ac.nz > NZ Beekeeping http://www.wave.co.nz/pages/nickw/nzbkpg.htm bee-l@cnsibm.albany.edu wrote: > > > patties of shortening and granulated sugar but I've read somewhere that > > beekeepers sometimes provide granulated sugar alone. What can you tell a > > Though you can feed dry sugar to good effect, for this situation I'd > avoid it. Dry sugar feeding has the advantages of easy, little or > no extra gear, clean, no spilled syrup to cause robbing, little/no > stimulation of the queen's egg laying. But it is at a cost. The > bees to handle it must liquify it themselves, then evaporate off the > excess again - there is an energy conversion factor which means for > any given quantity of sugar, feeding it dry will result in less > stores overall. > > Murray Reid, one of NZ's bee advisory officers who reads this list, > wrote a good article on this some years back - I'll see if I can > find it. > > But for your situation, Marcia, I'd feed with as heavy a sugar syrup > as I could make (just at the point of maximum saturation) (knowing > that this will probably cause some responses from the others on the > list!!!) > > For many years I have followed the traditional system of supplemental feeding (equal quantities, BY WEIGHT, of sugar and water). But, all that time I kept telling myself that I had to being doing my honeybees an injustice because honeybees have to spend energy to get rid of any extra water that we feed them. I have heard from many sources that corn syrup is harmful to honeybee larvae! I also had my doubts about that theory and decided to submit it to scientific study. I plan to share the results of my second research project (in addition to that with Varroa mites) at the 54TH Annual Convention of the AFB in Norfolk, Virginia, USA. I know that many of you are going to write back to me again complaining (hopefully not about my spelling) about the sanity and willingness to challenge established practices! I hope that some of you will remember to write thanking me when you start enjoying the benefits of my work in you bee yards! Yes, concentrate your sugar solution almost to the point of simulating honey. Your honeybees will love it, and you too! HAPPY NEW YEAR AND HAPPY BEEKEEPING! Dr. Pedro Rodriguez Virginia Beach, Virginia USA > > (\ Nick Wallingford > {|||8- home nickw@wave.co.nz > (/ work nw1@boppoly.ac.nz > NZ Beekeeping http://www.wave.co.nz/pages/nickw/nzbkpg.htm ... Clap on (CLAP CLAP) Clap off (CLA8**@#%NO CARRIER ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 4 Jan 1997 12:44:04 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Carl H. Powell" Subject: Making Splits * Originally By: Int:dronebee@norfolk.infi * Originally To: Watchman * Originally Re: Making Splits * Original Date: 01-02-97 12:07 * Original Area: E-mail * Forwarded by : Blue Wave/386 v2.20 bee-l@cnsibm.albany.edu wrote: > > Hello All! > > Well, it's January now so I guess we frightened, apprehensive, new-bees > can start some threads on spring management! I am entering into my third > season of beekeeping, and have two hives, both started last year from 5 > pound packages. (I lost all ONE of my hives the year before to mites and > ignorance). The packages did very well last year, and seemed very strong > going into winter. I took my honey off early, (1st week in Sept.) and > left the fall flow for the bees, I also treated with Apistan as soon as > my honey was off and did not seem to have a great mite problem when I > closed up for the winter. Recent inspections on our recent 65-70 degree > days have revealed a lot of activity, and the hives still seem fairly > heavy with stores. > > My question is this. I plan to split both of my hives this year to head > of swarming and to increase my number of hives from two to four. I know > this is a VERY regional thing with times varying widely based on climate, > but I would appreciate some tips from you on how to proceed, what to look > for, and any horrifying/great success stories you may have. I plan to > review "The_Hive_and_the_Honeybee" for more tip/procedures, and would > also appreciate more reading suggestions. > > Thank you very much, for myself, and other beginners who will benefit > from this thread. > > Steve Creasy- > Maryville, Tennessee, USA > Prov. 24:13, 25:16 bee-l@cnsibm.albany.edu wrote: > > Hello All! > > Well, it's January now so I guess we frightened, apprehensive, new-bees > can start some threads on spring management! I am entering into my third > season of beekeeping, and have two hives, both started last year from 5 > pound packages. (I lost all ONE of my hives the year before to mites and > ignorance). The packages did very well last year, and seemed very strong > going into winter. I took my honey off early, (1st week in Sept.) and > left the fall flow for the bees, I also treated with Apistan as soon as > my honey was off and did not seem to have a great mite problem when I > closed up for the winter. Recent inspections on our recent 65-70 degree > days have revealed a lot of activity, and the hives still seem fairly > heavy with stores. > > My question is this. I plan to split both of my hives this year to head > of swarming and to increase my number of hives from two to four. I know > this is a VERY regional thing with times varying widely based on climate, > but I would appreciate some tips from you on how to proceed, what to look > for, and any horrifying/great success stories you may have. I plan to > review "The_Hive_and_the_Honeybee" for more tip/procedures, and would > also appreciate more reading suggestions. > > Thank you very much, for myself, and other beginners who will benefit > from this thread. > > Steve Creasy- > Maryville, Tennessee, USA > Prov. 24:13, 25:16 Honey production is directly proportional to the availability of nectar and honeybee population. Splitting your honeybee population will achieve pricesely that, reduced honey production by a big factor! You have to decide on what you want to have more hives or more honey! It might be wiser for you to buy package honeybees (notice that I always use the word honeybees as in contrast to just bees!) and go for the honey! (I love puns!) Economics, dear friend! Don't forget: If economics allow, come and visit the 54th AFC onvention at Norfolk, Virgina (USA) 15-18 Jan 97. HAPYY NEW YEAR. MERRY BEEKEEPING. Dr. Pedro P. Rodriguez Virginia Beach, Virginia 23454 Phone:757-486-1573 dronebe@norfolk.infi.net ... ISLAM: If stuff happens, it's the will of Allah. ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 4 Jan 1997 10:15:48 -0800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Roy Nettlebeck Subject: Re: Bees and bullets In-Reply-To: <199701032347.QAA12953@selway.umt.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Fri, 3 Jan 1997, Jerry J Bromenshenk wrote: > I oppose splitting just to do what was originally intended. Bee-L was > started to talk about bee biology. The diversity of hobbiests, commercial > beekeepers, apicultural inspectors, and researchers adds to the information > exchange. The problem should not be re-starting lists. At issue is the > purpose, which people quickly forget. The objective is to discuss bee > biology - if we could stick to that topic, it wouldn't matter who made up the > list and there would be no need to split. > Hello All, I belive Jerry has the real point of this list. I would like to ad a little.About 15 years ago Quality Circles were being used to help manage companys. We would get a group of workers together and brainstorm problems. I started one in my group and it went very well.We had many different ideas on what the problem was and how to solve it.There were no stupid ideas , because it could prevoke someone else with an different idea and prospective. We did have to have patience with some of the players. The bottem line was the outcome. We all grew and everyone of the members went up the ladder.We learned to listen and to discard what did not fit. This list has helped me get more information on Varroa and many other problems with beekeeping.We have some great people on this list and it needs to be open to all.We will never get over someones bad day. When they take it out on the list. It should not be here ,but I will take the reallity of being human. We do need to respect each others ideas. I don't have to use them , but they do make my mind work so I can throw them away if they don't fit. Think about 600+ people in one room discussing honeybees. I can see a real mess , with some people shouting and just discord.We should all try to keep down the flame. Lets pass on some good info on honeybees , so we can all learn.We do have to keep this loose so we have more people posting and not be afraid of getting stepped on. Have a Great 97 Roy ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 4 Jan 1997 12:06:55 -0600 Reply-To: allend@internode.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Allen Dick Organization: The Beekeepers Subject: Re: Bees and bullets MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Well, I have read this thread and wondered. To sum it up, it seems to go just like this: "If everyone were just like me, everything would be fine, so smarten up you (other) people". Well, sorry, but I have to tell you, it isn't that way. Probably over time, *ten times* the current number of people who are presently on the list have subscribed then left. I've watched them come and go. What *are* the numbers, Aaron? Now many did not really have much interest, but many, many did not find this a suitable venue -- for many different reasons. I find it a great place, but many do not have thick hides. Others just find the amount of trash and abuse intolerable. I used to be a miner, and in that trade we got dirty and we were also glad to get even an ounce or so of metal out of a ton of rock, so, I guess I guess a low return on investment here occasionally doesn't bother me. Sometimes we hit pay dirt. I've got more than a few big nuggets. Moreover, I'm a Ham, and that hobby consists mostly of a bunch of guys sitting alone at home listening to static and hearing other guys say "I can't hear you can you still hear me"? If you do get a good connection, then the major topic is how strong the signal is (5 by 9 -- or 5nn if you are listening to morse code chirping away) and how you got your signal it so strong. :) So I guess I'm saying to each his own. Some people don't like static and cross talk, so they need to be considered too. We need more than one forum, with different rules for each. That's not to say we can't still meet here just the same. Regards Allen W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper VE6CFK RR#1, Swalwell, Alberta Canada T0M 1Y0 Internet:dicka@cuug.ab.ca & allend@internode.net Honey. Bees, & Art ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 4 Jan 1997 14:41:29 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Dave Green, Eastern Pollinator Newsletter" Subject: Re: Warm spell, high swarms...... Comments: To: dvisrael@earthlink.net In a message dated 97-01-04 09:19:01 EST, dvisrael@earthlink.net (Donald V Israel) writes: <> I've found that (in South Carolina) November and December are pretty slow months, and you can't stimulate the queen if you try. By early January she is already going, but you can't stimulate her much. By late in the month and into February, she'll get turned on. A natural flow (maple, canola, willow, etc.) will get them brooded up. I think the stimulation is caused by pollen as well as nectar. If the pollen is absent, they won't get stimulated much. From late January onward, we have to be cautious about management when there are warm spells. One thing that I've seen is bees brooded up too early, and a sharp temperature drop makes them contract the cluster and outer brood is chilled. It really sets a hive back, and can even kill them, in trying to deal with all the dead corpses. The other effect is increase in food consumption. Bees don't eat much where there is little brood, and death up to mid-January is usually not starvation, but other factors causing weak hives (stored poisoned pollen, poor queen, mites, etc.) Once they have a lot of brood they get real hungry. The maple flow here usually hits around the turn between Jan & Feb. Then it is quite barren until the end of March. If the maple flow is good, I plan on a lot more feeding, because the brooded-up bees will eat more. The most powerful hives are apt to starve in mid-March, when they outrun the meagre nectar supplies they can find. This is one reason I like canola, which will yield for the entire late winter, and freezes will not stop the flow. Most other plants will stop yielding if there is a freeze, at least until new buds open. << No one answered my request for info on how to round up honey bees from 80 feet in a pine tree.(round up as in cattle not poison them). It haooened to me two times last year and I lost them. >> The problem is not unsolveable, but saving high swarms is not cost effective. I've decided that any swarm over 8 feet is not worth chasing. Falling off a ladder is not my cup-of-tea. Being out of commission in the spring would sink my business, as I've GOT to have the bees on the crops when they bloom. Funerals, including my own, are still not an acceptable excuse. Last spring an employee was determined to get a swarm in a sapling, about 15 feet up. He's an agile, vigorous, young Mexican, and I could have stopped him only by threatening to fire him. So I held my breath as he climbed the sapling. Slowly it bowed over until the swarm was down to ground level, and he was back with his feet on the ground. We put a hive down and they were starting to run in, but he couldn't hold the tree indefinitely. When he let go, the tree whipped back up, the surprised bees were mostly dropped on the ground. After a moments thought, they took off, en masse, and went up one of those "80 foot" pines. So much for that. Its a good idea to hive swarms at dusk, but we can't always come back the necessary miles to catch one swarm, which may-or-may-not be still there. Swarm catchers can be purchased or made, using shop vacs. But it is an extra piece of equipment to haul around. -Not to speak of carrying the length of pipe needed. Bait boxes, are another solution, but it's iffy. The higher the boxes, the better the catch rate. You can also purchase pheromones to attract them, but I've not tried this. The best bet is to not let the bees swarm. Wild swarms are now quite rare, and if I manage my own bees as they should be, these swarms should also be rare. So I just wave goodbye to high swarms. It's sad. I wish I could tell them that they are carrying the vampires that will build up and kill them. Without my care, they are doomed ---Dead bees that just don't know it yet. But they ignore what I tell them. There's a sermon in there somewhere. Pollinator@aol.com Dave Green, PO Box 1200, Hemingway, SC 29554 (Dave & Jan's Pollination Service, Pot o'Gold Honey Co.) Practical Pollination Home Page Dave & Janice Green http://users.aol.com/pollinator/polpage1.html Jan's Sweetness and Light Varietal Honeys and Gift Sets http://users.aol.com/SweetnessL/sweetlit.htm ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 4 Jan 1997 15:21:32 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Harry Sweet Subject: Re: Making Splits In a message dated 97-01-03 18:07:03 EST, you write: << Harry Sweet wrote > I split the doubles and triples in late march, let the > queenless hives make a queen on their own or add a frame with > fresh eggs or find a queencell in one of the queenright colonies. > I expect an active swarm season like last year. I've had no losses > to mites in 4 years. I use only apistan in march, july, and november >for 4 to 8 weeks. Regretfully this method will invariably produce poor queens, even runts. Queens made under panic conditions (emergency) will be poor and will not last long. Then the bees set too and superscede the queen just made. In the meantime brooding will suffer and the hive will decline before being restored to normal. A better suggestion would be to ensure that queen cells made from older larvae are cut out, and only the right aged larvae are allowed to develop. ********************************************************* The Bee Works, 9 Progress Drive Unit 2, Orillia, Ontario, Canada. L3V 6H1 David Eyre, Owner. Phone/Fax 705 326 7171 Agents for E.H.Thorne & B.J.Sherriff UK http://www.muskoka. >> I should say that I prefer to use swarm cells from my strongest hives. I also have used queen cell cups with grafted eggs. Only when I've run out of queen cells do I try the emergency fresh frame of eggs from another hive. So far I've had good luck. Hives that aren't strong get requeened or added back to another hive. I've been keeping bees for only 10 years and I like to experiment a little. Thanks for your suggestions, I'll keep them in mind. Harry Sweet N. California ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 4 Jan 1997 14:28:26 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: kuehn john c Subject: Re: A (serious) PLEA FOR BREVITY In-Reply-To: <32CB8598.2DC0@cc.umanitoba.ca> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII I agree with this plea for brevity! I am a bee professional and would like to help, but there is too much non bee talk. Jack Kuehn, University of Illinois bee lab ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 4 Jan 1997 16:15:33 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Janet Montgomery & Dan Veilleux Subject: Re: Spelling help Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" The American Heritage Dictionary spells it as one word, however , Common Names of Insects and Related Organisms 1982 by the Entomological Soc of America spells it as two words. Take your choice- However I'll go with English and spell it as honeybee. Dan Veilleux Columbus, Ohio USA At 06:55 AM 1/4/97 -1000, you wrote: >Aloha to all bee-liners and happy new year > Before this group gets split up into sophisticated sub (snoot) >groups could I seek info from the group about the correct spelling of our >beloved. Is it HONEYBEE or is it HONEY BEE. I see it both ways and I'm sure >some old drones or GOV.paid professionals will be able to set me straight >on this matter. Regarding this list I vote to leave it alone save and >except if we could find a way to make the members get a little more >pro-actice.I mean really the sweet little dialogue about re-queening and >swarm retrevial,etc are interesting and sometimes informative and yet still >leaves a lot to be desired as far as really trying to solve the real issues >facing beekeepers today.Several good questions have been raised and if the >question is at all thorney everyone shys away because we do not have the >answers and we all feel that it is hopeless to push for research help.We >should not give up we should get organized. Each of us has only one voice >that can only be heard so well and if the beekeepers of the U.S. could some >how get organized and working a plan we could have a major impact on the >future of U.S. beekeeping.This group of 4,5,or 600 could be the driving >force.No one else seems to want to lead the charge and often there is a >conflict of interest (National Organizations) or a fear of retaliation >(Publications) > At any rate the brave beekeepers get no real help. I for one am greatly >concerned about saving the U.S. beekeepers and food production and prices >like in the past. We beekeepers have been abandoned by researchers for >special interest groups. Here in America EVERYTHING is for sale and can be >bought for a price after all this is America and MONEY talks in this >mercenary U.S. of A. > > Well Aloha to all and Spring has sprung here in Hawaii >and the bees are building in some areas. >come visit Walter > > > >Walter Patton-Hawaiian Honey House and >Hale Lamalani B & B (House of Heavenly Light) >A Hawaii Beekeeper's Bed & Breakfast >27-703A Kaieie Rd.,Papaikou,HI. 96781 >Ph./Fax 808-964-5401 or hihoney@ilhawaii.net >http:\www.alohamall.com/hamakua/hihoney/htm. >"TheBeehive,The Fountain of Youth and Health" > > Janet Montgomery 104 Fallis Road Columbus, Ohio 43214-3724 Home: (614) 784-8334 FAX: (614) 268-3107 E-mail: montgomery.1@osu.edu ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 4 Jan 1997 14:50:19 -0700 Reply-To: cronk@ibm.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Harry Cron k Subject: Pheromones MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dave Green, Eastern Pollinator Newsletter wrote: > > In a message dated 97-01-04 09:19:01 EST, dvisrael@earthlink.net (Donald V > Israel) writes: > > < unseasonably warm for this time of year. What does this do to the biological > clock there has been so much talk about lately?>> > > I've found that (in South Carolina) November and December are pretty slow > months, and you can't stimulate the queen if you try. By early January she > is already going, but you can't stimulate her much. By late in the month and > into February, she'll get turned on. A natural flow (maple, canola, willow, > etc.) will get them brooded up. I think the stimulation is caused by pollen > as well as nectar. If the pollen is absent, they won't get stimulated much. > > From late January onward, we have to be cautious about management when > there are warm spells. One thing that I've seen is bees brooded up too > early, and a sharp temperature drop makes them contract the cluster and outer > brood is chilled. It really sets a hive back, and can even kill them, in > trying to deal with all the dead corpses. > > The other effect is increase in food consumption. Bees don't eat much > where there is little brood, and death up to mid-January is usually not > starvation, but other factors causing weak hives (stored poisoned pollen, > poor queen, mites, etc.) > > Once they have a lot of brood they get real hungry. The maple flow here > usually hits around the turn between Jan & Feb. Then it is quite barren > until the end of March. If the maple flow is good, I plan on a lot more > feeding, because the brooded-up bees will eat more. The most powerful hives > are apt to starve in mid-March, when they outrun the meagre nectar supplies > they can find. > > This is one reason I like canola, which will yield for the entire late > winter, and freezes will not stop the flow. Most other plants will stop > yielding if there is a freeze, at least until new buds open. > > << No one answered my request for info on how to round up honey bees from > 80 feet in a pine tree.(round up as in cattle not poison them). It > haooened to me two times last year and I lost them. >> > > The problem is not unsolveable, but saving high swarms is not cost > effective. I've decided that any swarm over 8 feet is not worth chasing. > Falling off a ladder is not my cup-of-tea. Being out of commission in the > spring would sink my business, as I've GOT to have the bees on the crops when > they bloom. Funerals, including my own, are still not an acceptable excuse. > > Last spring an employee was determined to get a swarm in a sapling, about > 15 feet up. He's an agile, vigorous, young Mexican, and I could have stopped > him only by threatening to fire him. So I held my breath as he climbed the > sapling. Slowly it bowed over until the swarm was down to ground level, and > he was back with his feet on the ground. We put a hive down and they were > starting to run in, but he couldn't hold the tree indefinitely. When he let > go, the tree whipped back up, the surprised bees were mostly dropped on the > ground. After a moments thought, they took off, en masse, and went up one of > those "80 foot" pines. So much for that. > > Its a good idea to hive swarms at dusk, but we can't always come back > the necessary miles to catch one swarm, which may-or-may-not be still there. > > Swarm catchers can be purchased or made, using shop vacs. But it is an > extra piece of equipment to haul around. -Not to speak of carrying the length > of pipe needed. > > Bait boxes, are another solution, but it's iffy. The higher the boxes, > the better the catch rate. You can also purchase pheromones to attract them, > but I've not tried this. > > The best bet is to not let the bees swarm. Wild swarms are now quite > rare, and if I manage my own bees as they should be, these swarms should also > be rare. > > So I just wave goodbye to high swarms. It's sad. I wish I could tell > them that they are carrying the vampires that will build up and kill them. > Without my care, they are doomed ---Dead bees that just don't know it yet. > > But they ignore what I tell them. There's a sermon in there somewhere. > > Pollinator@aol.com Dave Green, PO Box 1200, Hemingway, SC > 29554 (Dave & Jan's Pollination Service, Pot o'Gold Honey Co.) > > Practical Pollination Home Page Dave & Janice Green > http://users.aol.com/pollinator/polpage1.html > > Jan's Sweetness and Light Varietal Honeys and Gift Sets > http://users.aol.com/SweetnessL/sweetlit.htm Where do I purchase pheromones, and how do I use them? Harry Cronk Cronk@IBM.Net ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 4 Jan 1997 14:55:12 -0700 Reply-To: cronk@ibm.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Harry Cron k Subject: Re: Beeswax Recipes (Ear Candles) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To Faith Andrews Bedford Ivy VA and Tampa FL: Ear candles are long narrow cones made of muslin, coated with wax. They are inserted into one ear (small end,) and you light the upper end with the other ear down on a table or bed. This is supposed to clean out your earwax. Look in health food shops and chiropractor offices for supplies and advice. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 4 Jan 1997 14:48:14 -0800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Kay Lancaster Subject: Re: Beeswax Recipes (Ear Candles) In-Reply-To: <32CED1C0.766B@ibm.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII AOn Sat, 4 Jan 1997, Harry Cron k wrote: > Ear candles are long narrow cones made of muslin, coated with wax. > They are inserted into one ear (small end,) and you light the upper end > with the other ear down on a table or bed. This is supposed to clean > out your earwax. > > Look in health food shops and chiropractor offices for supplies and > advice. But be d*** careful -- there have been many bad burns, even some burnt eardrums from dripping wax from ear candles. There are many better and safer ways of dealing with the problem. Kay Lancaster kay@fern.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 4 Jan 1997 18:43:34 -0600 Reply-To: dvisrael@earthlink.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Donald V Israel Subject: Re: Pheromones Comments: To: cronk@ibm.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Where do I purchase pheromones, and how do I use them? Dial up 1-800-233-7929 on Monday morning. They can help you. They sell Honey bee stuff. Don > Harry Cronk > Cronk@IBM.Net ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 4 Jan 1997 15:31:17 -0800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Kay Lancaster Subject: Re: Roundup In-Reply-To: <970104104933_1822766800@emout19.mail.aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII > Funny I wonder how many guerilla bee forage planters are out there. > I have salt shakers filled with seeds that go with me on dog walks. > white clover , birdsfoot trefoil, sweet clover, and anise hyssop AARGH! This is the botanical equivalent of releasing African bees all over the place. (sound of botanist quietly sobbing and banging head on table...) Yes, those are good bee forage, but most of them aren't native to North America (anise hyssop is), and if you're merrily tossing sweet clover or bft or dutch clover seed into the ditches and bare spots and dog walking areas, you *might* be undoing some hard labor attempting to re-establish native vegetation in that area. I can't begin to count the number of hours I've spent pulling and roundup-ing introduced legumes and grasses in prairies and prairie roadsides, where we're trying to encourage diversity of native plants (which will also pay off for beekeepers in the long run). Please, before you seed, call your county and state department of transportation/road engineers/fish and wildlife/parks people and see if there's a native vegetation management plan in place for your area. And if they don't have such a plan, ask them "why not?" It's good for roadside vegetation management (mowing and pesticide use is reduced or eliminated), good for taxes (decreased costs in the long run), good for wildlife (lots more habitat), good for biological diversity (which means more spots for more and different kinds of native critters, including our native bees), etc., etc. Many of the midwestern states have such management plans, and the idea is catching on rapidly. In fact, many of the roadside programs would be willing to supply you with small amounts of "good for bees native plant seeds" for you to plant in roadsides. Kay Lancaster kay@fern.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 4 Jan 1997 18:22:52 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "(Thomas) (Cornick)" Subject: Re: Roundup In a message dated 97-01-04 18:04:50 EST, you write: << Yes, those are good bee forage, but most of them aren't native to North America (anise hyssop is), and if you're merrily tossing sweet clover or bft or dutch clover seed into the ditches and bare spots and dog walking areas, you *might* be undoing some hard labor attempting to re-establish native vegetation in that area. I can't begin to count the number of hours I've spent pulling and roundup-ing introduced legumes and grasses in prairies and prairie roadsides, where we're trying to encourage diversity of native plants (which will also pay off for beekeepers in the long run). >> Well think about this- honeybees are not native to Nothh America either I hope no one goes around destroying feral colonies for that reason. Come to think of it neither is all the blacktop. Now the highway departments you speak of are probably the same folks that planted all those olive shrubs along the roadside. Tom ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 4 Jan 1997 16:10:05 -0800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Kay Lancaster Subject: Re: Roundup In-Reply-To: <970104182251_1558672583@emout16.mail.aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Sat, 4 Jan 1997, (Thomas) (Cornick) wrote: > Well think about this- honeybees are not native to Nothh America either I > hope no one goes around destroying feral colonies for that reason. Nope, not that I know of. > Now the highway departments you speak of are probably the same folks that > planted all those olive shrubs along the roadside. That was mainly at the behest of the soil conservation service in the early-mid 20th century... the russian olives were cheap, and hardy, and held soil. Also ugly as sin, non-native, and sometimes invasive. But what can you expect from a bunch of engineers? ;-) Seriously, there's been a lot of work in the last 10-15 years on shifting from the model "smooth bromegrass road ditch" that is pretty high maintenance to a much more natural plant community with native species. Started with the biologists, but we've gradually convinced more and more road departments that they can cut costs, increase tourism, and please lots more folks by getting rid of the bromegrass and crown vetch and using native species (which also tends to extend the blooming season from just after last killing frost to several weeks after first killing frost in the fall). For models of such programs, look at Iowa, Minnesota, or Texas, just to name a few (most have web presences). There's certainly a valid place for plants like sweetclover, white dutch, red clover, etc. -- in fields of cultivated plants, in areas of mixed agriculture, in lawns, in waste areas that aren't being reconstructed with native plants, but they really don't belong in reconstruction areas or in native plant sites. They're great plants. But monocultures don't have the long-term stability of communities of native plants, and they can't support the wealth of species in the long run. Kay Lancaster kay@fern.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 4 Jan 1997 18:46:22 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Trevor Weatherhead Subject: Re: Viral transmission through honey bee semen On 30 December, 1996, Tom Culliney from the Department of Agriculture in Hawaii asked about the above subject. To date, I have seeen no replies. The other question raised by this posting is what viruses does Hawaii have? Has there been a survey of honey bees in Hawaii to determine this? Trevor Weatherhead AUSTRALIA ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 4 Jan 1997 18:08:08 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: krengel lawrence e Subject: Re: eye ailments in beekeepers In-Reply-To: <32CCB0B0.5BC7@umich.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Fri, 3 Jan 1997, Ted Fischer wrote: > This is indeed interesting. It was not I, the beekeeper, but my wife > who experienced central retinal vein occlusion this past summer. (Her > vision still has not returned to normal.) I do not consider this a > problem related to beekeeping, because her contact with the bees is very > minimal, but it is interesting nonetheless. > > Ted Fischer > Dexter, Michigan USA > I continue to hear of the family members of beekeepers - those with only limited exposure to bee - having an unusually large number of generalized reactions to bee stings. I wonder if this might carry through to this retinal condition? Just a thought. Larry Krengel Marengo, IL USA ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 5 Jan 1997 10:44:56 +1000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Mauricio Montes Castillo Subject: Sanity??? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 12:42 30/12/96 -0500, Pedro Rodriguez wrote: >I can PROUDLY claim that I have developed a method that kills Varroa and >HTM's. I will make my findings known at the 54th Annual Convention of >The American Beekeeping Federation coming January 15-18, 1996. I can ^^^^^^^^^^^^ >assure you that after that you can FORGET .... AND.. Wed, 1 Jan 1997 23:50:24 >... I know that many of you are going to write back to me again >complaining (hopefully not about my spelling) about the sanity and >willingness to challenge established practices!... After all the bluff you have been posting for days, I certanly hope you got a solution... about your sanity...mmhh???, you better hurry up, the Convention was held almost a year ago!!!! Mauricio ;) ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 5 Jan 1997 12:33:33 +1000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Mauricio Montes Castillo Subject: Comment Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Pedro R.: Apologies for my irrelevant comment. Mauricio :) ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 4 Jan 1997 21:52:05 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Mike Worrell Subject: Re: Beeswax Recipes Use of ear candles are of a folk cure nature. They are a hollow tube, made of cotton strips, soaked with beeswax, about 10" long, have a diameter on one end small enough to fit into the ear and about the diameter of a nickel on the other end. For people with hard ear wax, ringing ears or several minor ear problems, they are inserted in the ear and lit. The hear and smoke creates a fireplace chimney effect pulling the earwax out of the ear. Mike ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 4 Jan 1997 16:42:29 -0900 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jerry Fries Subject: Re: bee assoc. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Tom the association name you asked for is at attorny Marshall Coreyall s office. It has been waiting for someone to pick it up since mid summer 1996, at no cost. I thought you knew that, sorry . Jerry Fries ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 4 Jan 1997 16:42:34 -0900 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jerry Fries Subject: Re: bee assoc. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Tom the name you requested is at attorny Marshall coreyall"s office waiting to be picked up at no cost. I thought you knew that. Sorry Jerry Fries ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 4 Jan 1997 16:48:09 -0900 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jerry Fries Subject: Re: bee assoc. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Tom the name you requested for your association is at attorney Marshall Coreyall's office waiting to be picked up at no cost. I thought you knew sorry. All you have to do is abandon the current name and you are in business , ready to go. Best wishes Jerry Fries ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 5 Jan 1997 01:04:46 -0800 Reply-To: alwine@dreamcom.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Al Needham Subject: Re: Roundup MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Well think about this- honeybees are not native to Nothh America >either I hope no one goes around destroying feral colonies for that > reason. Interestingly..neither are homo sapiens native to north America :) Al -- * Al Needham - Scituate,MA,USA - Alwine@dreamcom.net * * >"The HoneyBee" An Educational Software Program V2.0< * * ALL NEW 1997 VERSION 2.0 WITH A SLIDE SHOW! * * Available from Sweden at: Http://www.kuai.se/~beeman/ * * A Web Site Worth Visiting For The Photography Alone * ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 5 Jan 1997 04:38:01 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Tom Allen Subject: Re: Allergy control and bee products In a message dated 96-09-29 21:41:58 EDT, you write: << Pollinator >> I have read your letters and others about allergies and honey, bee stings etc. I thought thsat I had things pretty well under control and that asthma was a think of the past which was the case for two years. Recently during an onset of clinical depression the asthma came back with a vengence. Back to the old medica tions. Oh well not too many years to go .I will just get along with my life and enjoy the little fuzzzy things that buzz. Did you hear the one about "why do bees hum" "because they don't know the words" I think thast was on BEE-L ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 5 Jan 1997 04:38:02 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Tom Allen Subject: Re: stop it right now hOW DO i GET JUNK MAIL OUT OF MY MAIL IS THERE A SCREEN THAT ELIMINATES MOST OF IT ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 5 Jan 1997 07:19:17 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Trevor Weatherhead Subject: Re: Wood preservatives I was involved in research into preservation of bee boxes in the early 1980's. I was very much influenced in later times by work carried out by Kalnins and Detroy in the USA. As has been stated on Bee-L before, pentachlorophenol (PCP) is definitely out for boxes and, when used on exterior parts such as bottom cleats, gives no real protection from termites (white ants). I can vouch for this from experience. The copper chrome arsenate (CCA) is not suitable for boxes but is quite good for the bottom cleats where there is no exposure of the wooden part to the bees or honey. bis-Tri-N-Butyl tin oxide (TBTO) does not have a good record in tropical or sub-tropical areas as a preservative. Copper naphthenate is the best we tested and the easiest used by home treatments by the beekeeper. To obtain the level of copper in the wood required under laws in the State of Queensland in Australia, it was found that a 1% solution of copper naphthenate would deliver the required level of preservation if the timber was completely immersed in the solution for 8 hours with suitable spacing between the pieces of wood. If you use a wrap and soak method, then a solution of one and a quarter percent was necessary with wood soaked for one hour then tightly wrapped in non porous plastic for a minimum of four days. If you use zinc naphthenate because you do not want the green colour on your wood, then you have to double the strength because zinc naphthenate, when compared to copper naphthenate, is not as effective a preservative as copper unless the strength is increased. New Zealand had used a product called Cee-Bee consisting of copper, chrome and boron but I am not sure if that is currently being used. The important aspect to remember in all timber preservation is that only the sapwood is treatable. The true wood (or heartwood) is not treatable. The other aspect to consider is what sort of risk of decay are your boxes exposed to. If you are in a tropical or sub-tropical area , if you do not treat your boxes, they will only last a year or two. If you are in a desert area with low humidity, then your boxes will last a long time untreated. Timber must be over 20% moisture content before it will start to decay (rot) and then temperature plays a big part in the decay process. There are dry rots but these are not common. For instance, we do not have dry rot in Australia. You must have moisture and heat to start the decay process. I am not sure how copper naphthenate is sold in other parts of the world but in Australia the most common form used by beekeepers is the 5% copper. There are formulations called 40% copper naphthenate but these are only 4% copper. About the strongest you can buy in Australia is 5% copper which would be 50% copper naphthenate. Mineral turpentine was the solution used to break down the copper naphthenate. The green colour on the outside is not a good indication of the level of retention of the copper in the wood. This can only be done by chemical analysis. I hope this helps someone. Trevor Weatherhead AUSTRALIA ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 5 Jan 1997 13:10:51 -0600 Reply-To: dvisrael@earthlink.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Donald V Israel Subject: Re: stop it right now MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Tom Allen wrote: > > hOW DO i GET JUNK MAIL OUT OF MY MAIL > > IS THERE A SCREEN THAT ELIMINATES MOST OF IT Hit the delete button ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 5 Jan 1997 10:22:15 -0600 Reply-To: allend@internode.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Allen Dick Organization: The Beekeepers Subject: Re: Wood preservatives MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT The material I mentioned previously as being a surface treatment for wood rhat is uded outside is EVERwood. It is described as being "a non-toxic, penetrating, alkali-activated silica aero gel that seals, waterproofs, hardens and preserves most untreated wood products". It is applied to damp wood by spraying, dipping, brushing or rolling. It is a product of Con-Seal, Saskatoon, Sak. Canada It costs $940 per 55 US gallon drum, and less if bought in multiple drum lots. I don't know much about it except the claims made for it are impressive, and when applied to as wood sample in my presence, it penetrated quickly and migrated some paint to the surface. Perhaps someone has had some experience with such material. The cost seems rather high, but its other properties make it attractive. Regards Allen W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper VE6CFK RR#1, Swalwell, Alberta Canada T0M 1Y0 Internet:dicka@cuug.ab.ca & allend@internode.net Honey. Bees, & Art ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 5 Jan 1997 13:23:36 -0500 Reply-To: beeworks@muskoka.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: David Eyre Organization: beeworks Subject: Re: Bees and bullets MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Jerry Bromenshenk wrote > I oppose splitting just to do what was originally intended. Bee-L was > started to talk about bee biology. The diversity of hobbiests, commercial > beekeepers, apicultural inspectors, and researchers adds to the information > exchange. The problem should not be re-starting lists. At issue is the > purpose, which people quickly forget. The objective is to discuss bee I have been away for a couple of days, and my first retort was "not again!" I agree with Jerry! We had this same discussion a year ago, and the concesus of opinion then was to leave well alone. If we have a problem then I would suggest we talk to the list owners, and stay away from the ones who want to take things over for their own personal gratification. The only thing this list needs, is more experience. I don't like to point fingers, but, just today I found 3 messages from Jerry Fries, all saying the same thing, and all of a personal nature which should not have been posted to the whole list. Another problem area, lack of ettiquet. We still suffer from the whole message return, and a single line as an answer! These are some of the problems! Would it not be possible to educate the newbees as to the proper form when useing e-mail, it would certainly cut down on ther clutter. There was an article recently (Dec '96) in Bee Culture from one of the "scientifics" which I think explains why some have left the list! I for one am grateful that the others( Jerry, Kerry etc) are still with us. The call for 'brevity' is really not the issue, as I for one enjoy the Old Drone, and Dave Green. It is really appreciating what we have in this medium, and helping our fellow man to get up to speed! ********************************************************* The Bee Works, 9 Progress Drive Unit 2, Orillia, Ontario, Canada. L3V 6H1 David Eyre, Owner. Phone/Fax 705 326 7171 Agents for E.H.Thorne & B.J.Sherriff UK http://www.muskoka.net/~beeworks ********************************************************* ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 5 Jan 1997 13:06:02 -0600 Reply-To: bbirkey@interaccess.com Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Barry Birkey Organization: Birkey.Com Subject: Re: Bees and bullets MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit David Eyre wrote: > posted to the whole list. Another problem area, lack of ettiquet. We still > suffer from the whole message return, and a single line as an answer! > Would it not be possible to educate the newbees as to the proper form > when useing e-mail, it would certainly cut down on ther clutter. Hi David - I have often thought about this problem and have wondered if there wasn't a way to improve it. Maybe everytime we get one of those endless quoted replies with a one-liner at the bottom we (whoever) should send the mail back to them with a copy of Netiquette that Gerry made available a short time ago and kindly ask them to help cut down on the groups clutter. It's a tough problem to "fix" as there is no way to enforce it. Perhaps a form letter could be composed addressing this problem and posted every month to the list for the benefit of any new joiners. I remember when I first got invovled with newsgroups and lists that I did the same thing but through the reminders of others pointing out the problem, I quickly changed my habits. I would hope that most of the time this (clutter) happens without people being aware of it? Maybe not. Maybe others have given this some thought and have ideas. And now, back to biology. It's cold here, my Honeybees are in their huddled masses and I'm just waiting for Spring to come. -Barry -- Barry Birkey West Chicago, Illinois USA bbirkey@interaccess.com http://www.birkey.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 5 Jan 1997 14:41:22 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Eric Abell Subject: Re: Beekeeping Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" A > As a hobby beekeeper, 15 colonies and growing any information out there >can't help but improve my skills or at least furnish me with another question >to ponder when the inner cover comes off. > Now the commercial operators with a few thousand hives might find the >information a bit hard to glean from the various posts but my bet says they >built their operations in the field and not at the computer monitor in the >first place. > As a commercial beekeeper with 1200 colonies under the snow I find this list a great place to visit. Remember, with your 15 colonies you need several good ideas to make it worthwhile. If I get only 1 good idea from the list this winter that I can use 1200 times or that might save 1% or my colonies, or produce even 1 extra pound per colony, or save me 1 minute a colony then whatever I have invested in time to read these messages has been a good investment. Eric Eric Abell Gibbons, Alberta Canada (403) 998 3143 eabell@compusmart.ab.ca ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 5 Jan 1997 14:41:25 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Eric Abell Subject: Re: Making Splits Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" This was a great message. I have quoted most of the message and inserted a comment a question. I hope you will take the time to respond to this question. . . . > >2. Set up your split hive with one box, new frames and undrawn foundation. > Pull three of the new frames out of the box. > >3, Remove from your strong hive three frames. One should be mostly honey, >while the other two should have uncapped larvae and old capped brood. Ther >should also be lots of bees on the frames. > >4. Inspect these frames for the queen. When you are satisfied the queen is >not on a frame, put it in the center of your split hive. Group all three >frames you took from your strong hive together. It is easy to miss the Queen. Perhaps this is an instance, especialy for the beginner, not to look for the Queen at all. Rather, place the split over the strong hive with an excluder between and check for eggs 3 or 4 days later. >4a. If the queen is on one of the frames you selected, take her off that >frame and put her back in the strong hive from whence she came. > >5. Install the three foundation frames you removed from the new hive as end >frames in the strong hive you just split. Close up the strong hive. It has been my practice, in instances like this, although I would normally not be replacing 3 frames, to place the foundation in the center. My theory is that this forces the bees to draw it out quickly. Lately I have been questioning this and your #5 raises the question again. I wonder if I am splitting the brood nest and hampering egg laying. What do the rest of you do? Eric Eric Abell Gibbons, Alberta Canada (403) 998 3143 eabell@compusmart.ab.ca ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 5 Jan 1997 14:41:27 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Eric Abell Subject: Re: Bees and bullets Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 04:47 PM 03/01/97 -0700, you wrote: >I oppose splitting just to do what was originally intended. Bee-L was >started to talk about bee biology. The diversity of hobbiests, commercial >beekeepers, apicultural inspectors, and researchers adds to the information >exchange. The problem should not be re-starting lists. At issue is the >purpose, which people quickly forget. The objective is to discuss bee >biology - if we could stick to that topic, it wouldn't matter who made up the >list and there would be no need to split. > >Jerry Bromenshenk >jjbmail@selway.umt.edu This has been suggested several times. It would help if someone would describe just how far "bee biology" should go and where it stops. Eric Eric Abell Gibbons, Alberta Canada (403) 998 3143 eabell@compusmart.ab.ca ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 5 Jan 1997 13:41:30 -0900 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Tom Elliott Subject: Re: Making Splits MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Eric, > It is easy to miss the Queen. Perhaps this is an instance, especialy for > the beginner, not to look for the Queen at all. Rather, place the split > over the strong hive with an excluder between and check for eggs 3 or 4 days > later. Or, simply locate the queen, and set her aside, before making your splits. then you don't have to worry about whether she is on a removed frame or not. > It has been my practice, in instances like this, although I would normally > not be replacing 3 frames, to place the foundation in the center. My theory > is that this forces the bees to draw it out quickly. Lately I have been > questioning this and your #5 raises the question again. I wonder if I am > splitting the brood nest and hampering egg laying. What do the rest of you do? I would put them at the edges of the brood nest where they would have the best chance of being drawn out the way we would like them to be. Splitting the brood is okay if you do it with some undestanding. You can create problems, but it it has worked for you who is to say it is harmful. I would never split the brood with foundation, though. In this I agree with your question. - - - - - - - - - - - - "Test everything. Hold on to the good." (1 Thessalonians 5:21) Tom Elliott Eagle River, Alaska U.S.A. beeman@alaska.net ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 5 Jan 1997 23:26:14 GMT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Glyn Davies Subject: Re: Bees and bullets Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >. It would help if someone would >describe just how far "bee biology" should go and where it stops. > >Eric > >Eric Abell >Gibbons, Alberta Canada >(403) 998 3143 >eabell@compusmart.ab.ca Friendly Bee-liners, I've been on the list for about a year now and after 20 years of beekeeping I find the List absorbing for its insights to bee and human behaviour. Soon after joining it occurred to me that the List was trying to do two things: a) Discuss Bee biology- ie Life-history, anatomy, behaviour, diseases etc b) Discuss Practical beekeeping techniques- Of course these areas interact but they do seem to reflect a natural separation of people and problems. I don't really know how or who organises Bee-line. Is it too naive to suggest that maybe two lines could be set up? Would this situation calm things down, providing less frustration and less stamping on others toes? And perhaps permit more detailed discussion in each of these equally important but fairly distinct branches of the beekeeping business. Glyn Davies, Ashburton, Devon UK ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 5 Jan 1997 19:26:53 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jerry Holden Subject: REMOVING HONEY FROM SUPER Anyone have any advise on removing bees from supers, when ready to remove honey.This will be my first collection of honey this year and any advice will be appericiated. RICK FLORIDA ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 Jan 1997 00:35:18 GMT Reply-To: phoenix@aug.com Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Stanton A Hershman Organization: Phoenix Subject: Re: REMOVING HONEY FROM SUPER In-Reply-To: <970105192653_1414591336@emout02.mail.aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Sun, 5 Jan 1997 19:26:53 -0500, you expounded on something about: >Anyone have any advise on removing bees from supers, when ready to = remove >honey.This will be my first collection of honey this year and any = advice >will be appericiated. > RICK > FLORIDA pulling late?? usually i smoke them hard, wait a couple of minutes, and start pulling = frames. have been brushing the remaining die hards. built me a box with a sealed bottom and lay-on lid. i move the frame immediately to the collection = box and then go after the next frame. when the box is full move it to the = extraction area. usually have a few stragglers that leave quickly. northeast florida stanton ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 5 Jan 1997 19:32:08 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jerry Holden Subject: BULL ANT PROBLEM Does anyone know of a way to get rid of bull ants around the bottom of my hives? The hives are on wooden supports about 18" off of the ground but the bull ants love to get up to the hives. I am trying to keep away any chemicals or other things that may harm the bees. Rick FLORIDA ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 5 Jan 1997 18:08:44 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: jchamberlin Subject: Re: BULL ANT PROBLEM In-Reply-To: <970105193208_238538196@emout10.mail.aol.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT > To keep ants from crawling up your hive stand legs you can place the legs in coffee cans of old oil (or water if you replace the water when it needs it). Obviously this is only feasible if you have a relatively small number of hives. (Another method that I've had limited success with is placing wood ashes around hive legs. this was as Peace Corps volunteer in South America. Some beekeepers I knew swore by this method. It is probably way too labor intensive to work for anybody on this list but maybe of interest to readers anyhow??) ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 5 Jan 1997 20:31:34 -0500 Reply-To: vcoppola@epix.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Vince Coppola Subject: Re: Bees and bullets In-Reply-To: <199701032347.QAA12953@selway.umt.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Hello All, I would'nt like to see the list split. I think the best situation is for the "experts" and the beginers to be on the same list so that the newer folks get sound advice. Put all the novices on their own list and it will be the blind leading the blind. On the other hand I think things are out of hand. For months I've deleted 99% of the list without reading it. I think too many are using the list for info that can easily be gotten elswhere. This list cannot take the place of reading books and using books as your main referance. I know e-mail is more fun but if things keep on the way they are, I think the list will split and the best informed bee people will simply go away. I recomend that new beekeepers build a library of beekeeping literature, subscribe to at least one journal, and read, read, read. When you need help, read somemore. If you can't find what you nead, then post your question. If you don't like reading and want to chat, do it off the list. Also, if someone posts a realy basic question, and the answer is'nt of general interest, why not respond to the sender only rather than dump another message into 600 mailboxes? And why do we need so much stuff that is'nt even close to bee biology- painting, birds, weed spray? ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 Jan 1997 12:31:29 +1000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Chris Allen Subject: Re: BULL ANT PROBLEM Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 06:08 PM 5/01/97 -0700, you wrote: >> >To keep ants from crawling up your hive stand legs you can place the legs >in coffee cans of old oil. I know a beekeeper that uses his own special mix to put on the legs. It is a greasy gelle that uses some sort of ant repellent/poison. I will try to tack it down. I recall that he says that standing legs in a bath of oil/water is not practical because the liquid evaporates too quickly (well it does in Western NSW). He smears the mix on to the legs. The gelle does not drain off the legs (or evaporate) but it is eventually coated with dust so the ants can walk over the top of it. He also recommends leaving a dead kangaroo (or some other large animal) close to the ant's nest. The ants become so pre-occupied with the meat that they ignore the hives. Regards Chris Allen ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 5 Jan 1997 21:44:16 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Joel W. Govostes" Subject: Re: Making Splits Comments: To: eabell@compusmart.ab.ca Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >It has been my practice, in instances like this, although I would normally >not be replacing 3 frames, to place the foundation in the center. My theory >is that this forces the bees to draw it out quickly. Lately I have been >questioning this and your #5 raises the question again. I wonder if I am >splitting the brood nest and hampering egg laying. What do the rest of you do? >Eric Abell eabell@compusmart.ab.ca Putting the new foundation or empty combs in the middle is rather drastic, as far as splitting the brood nest. What I do is push the remaining combs with BROOD together in the center of the hive body, and have the pollen/honey and honey combs at the sides, outermost. The replacement combs or foundation then go in the space between the consolidated brood combs and the outer food combs. There they will be drawn well, the queen can expand the brood nest out onto them, and in the meantime there is no drastic division of the brood nest integrity. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 5 Jan 1997 19:42:28 -0600 Reply-To: allend@internode.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Allen Dick Organization: The Beekeepers Subject: Fwd: Easy Splits MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Forwarded for Len Lawrence who is having trouble posting tonite: -------------------------------------------------------------- This is the method I use when making splits. I live about 25 miles North of Kansas City Mo. I run about 30 hives when everything is going the right direction. I try to make my splits the first week in April. (weather permitting) I start feeding the last of Feb if possible. This will give me good full frames of capped brood for my splits. I try and get about 5 frames. Most of my hives are double hive bodies. I remove 5 frames (if Possible) of capped brood. SHAKE OFF all bees and set them into another hive body. Replace the removed frames with either drawn comb or foundation. Place a Queen excluder on top of the hive and set the new hive body on top with frames of capped brood plus a frame of pollen, 2 frames of stores and a couple empty frames and replace cover. You can go ahead and make up more splits. The bees will move up thru the excluder and cover the brood and now you have the right amount of bees. Later in the day or even the next day go back remove top box fasten to bottom board place cover on and you now have a good split. I will then put on trailer and move to new yard. (All my bees are on two wheel trailers) This way you are not looking for the Queen as all bees where shook off below the excluder. I learned this from a beekeeper who ran 400 hives in Missouri. KEN Regards Allen W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper VE6CFK RR#1, Swalwell, Alberta Canada T0M 1Y0 Internet:dicka@cuug.ab.ca & allend@internode.net Honey. Bees, & Art ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 5 Jan 1997 19:51:21 -0600 Reply-To: allend@internode.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Allen Dick Organization: The Beekeepers Subject: Re: Making Splits MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT > Putting the new foundation or empty combs in the middle is rather > drastic, as far as splitting the brood nest. What I do is push the > remaining combs with BROOD together in the center of the hive body, > and have the pollen/honey and honey combs at the sides, outermost. > The replacement combs or foundation then go in the space between the > consolidated brood combs and the outer food combs. I have wondered about this the many years I have been doing this, and one time do it one way, and another time, another -- sometimes in the same yard. I supppose it has to do with the 'art' side of beekeeping. When you have a hive apart, it is apparent whether they are good wax makers, or not. This is part of the unconscious decision making process. Other fators, such as the strength, time of year, flow, swarming factors, etc. will be part of the decision too, as will be the question of how many adult bees will remain in the parent hive. I notice each fall that some few hives have failed to complete the foundation, while others have done beautifully, regardless of the position of the foundation. FWIW Regards Allen W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper VE6CFK RR#1, Swalwell, Alberta Canada T0M 1Y0 Internet:dicka@cuug.ab.ca & allend@internode.net Honey. Bees, & Art ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 5 Jan 1997 22:04:29 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jerry Holden Subject: Blossom support for bees My question is, in proportion to 1 hive of double brood chamber of bees. How many grown citrus trees with a good crop of bloom should support a honey crop? If I am using shallow supers, how many supers would you expect to make. This is my first season of collecting honey. I have approximately 6 citrus trees close around the 2 hives I have now. I would like to expand to atleast 4 hives. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 5 Jan 1997 20:40:56 -0600 Reply-To: allend@internode.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Allen Dick Organization: The Beekeepers Subject: Re: Wintering Report MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT > As a commercial beekeeper with 1200 colonies under the snow I find > this list a great place to visit. Speaking of hives under snow... We (my wife & I) were out to check the hives today, seeing as it warmed up to minus 10 or so. We unwrapped (briefly) 3 of our 4 packs and were pleased to find 100% alive and as well as (better than) when they were wrapped almost two months ago, now. The snow was over the top entrances on most, but they didn't seem to care. We chose this yard since it was the last to get wrapped and seemed a bit sad at the time. We compared several methods in various packs in this yard, notably our pillows to 'no pillows', and were pleased to see that the bees looked at least as good with the pillows, and in our eyes, slightly better than those with wooden tops. Of interest was that there were a few drops of water around the outer edges of the dry circle in contact with the bees, and in only one did we see frost, whereas ice was common in the corners of those with wooden lids. The water seems to me to be a good thing, since it is not in contact with the bees, but is there to help them dissolve granulated honey. We compared those packs with R20 on top to those with R8, and saw little difference. However the difference comes when brood rearing gets going later and the bees are generating more heat. At that time, the extra insulation should be better, since the bees will be able to occupy more of the hive sooner, and resist starving near food. Of course, they have three months to go before we can say how they are doing, but for now, it looks great! Regards Allen W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper VE6CFK RR#1, Swalwell, Alberta Canada T0M 1Y0 Internet:dicka@cuug.ab.ca & allend@internode.net Honey. Bees, & Art ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 Jan 1997 00:02:12 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Tom Allen Subject: Re: What does everyone do for labels? In a message dated 96-10-04 13:07:34 EDT, you write: << < I may have missed conversation on labels, but would like to know where everyone gets their labels? I have extra honey to sell this year and will need labels. What should I look out for when ordering? 5 years ago I bought a jar of honey....put the jar thru the dishwasher many times and label still looks pretty good. I don't think I will be needing that expensive a label, but was still amazed. >> ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 Jan 1997 00:02:36 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Tom Allen Subject: Re: What does everyone do for labels? In a message dated 96-10-04 13:07:34 EDT, you write: << < I may have missed conversation on labels, but would like to know where everyone gets their labels? I have extra honey to sell this year and will need labels. What should I look out for when ordering? 5 years ago I bought a jar of honey....put the jar thru the dishwasher many times and label still looks pretty good. I don't think I will be needing that expensive a label, but was still amazed. >> This is a very late reply but I have been laid oup again. I ama small producer only a couple of hundred pounds per year.I make up my labels using any of several programs.The layout has to fit bottle chosen, using Print Master Gold, or Microsoft word we ahve come up with some nice designs. The minor dimension is just underunder 1-3/4 inches. The layout may provide as many as twenty labels fper per sheet. Take it to a color copier cna get them done for about 75cents a sheet. Shear the labels from the sheet. lay them face down on two inch wide Scotch tape clear tape.Press them on bottle and the labelis very durable,cheap, easily modified for special uses. Find that they will go through dish washer abuse. Willsend samples if interested.If you donthave a omputer find someone in neighborhoodd. It is fun and enjoyable work. I usually have two like lables a season with 12 and 16 oz weight references. Communicate if interested I can make up samples for you. about 1/2in ch apart.Snip ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 Jan 1997 05:21:45 +0000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Rick Grossman Subject: Re: Painting Hives Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I am experimenting with a substance that is basically a flat roof/mobile home covering sealant. I was introduced to it at the show in Portland, Oregon last year. The theory is that this stuff, while more expensive than regular paint, will last several times as long, so that there is ultimate savings in labor and materials. I bought some directly from the gentleman (I will have to look up his name and information if anyone is interested). After reading the information supplied, I decided that regular old sno-coat brand of flat roof/mobile home/metal roof sealant might work just as well. Painted a couple of brood supers this summer. It has not been enough time to determine its effectiveness yet. Has anyone else tried this type of material? Rick Grossman Portland, Oregon, USA ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 Jan 1997 02:10:40 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ted Fischer Subject: Re: REMOVING HONEY FROM SUPER MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jerry Holden (Rick) wrote: > > Anyone have any advise on removing bees from supers, when ready to remove > honey.This will be my first collection of honey this year and any advice > will be appericiated. I have given this advice before (although it is certainly not a favorite with many of you!), which is to use a fume board with Bee-Go, or the like. The stragglers can be blown out with a bee blower. This gets 99.5% (est.) of the bees without them so much as noticing that you are the one bothering them. Don't use the fume boards in cool weather, however; in that case the blower alone will have to do. Ted Fischer Dexter, Michigan, USA ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 5 Jan 1997 20:43:09 +0000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Paul Walton Subject: Re: Pheromones In-Reply-To: <32CED09B.37FD@ibm.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 In article <32CED09B.37FD@ibm.net>, Harry Cron k writes >Where do I purchase pheromones, and how do I use them? > >Harry Cronk >Cronk@IBM.Net Quote from Steele & Brodies 1996 catalogue which explains how to use them ... "SWARMIT - Remove the Swarmit phial from the sachet and, without opening it, place it just inside the entrance. The delicate scent will pass through the plastic walls of the phial over a period of 4 - 6 weeks (depending on the warmth of the season)." They charge (GBP) 2.25 each for these things (catalogue code M29 990), or (GBP) 10.65 for five (catalgue code M29 995). Contact them by email at steele&brodie@taynet.co.uk or by snail mail at: Steele & Brodie (1983) Ltd., Beehive Works, Kilmany Road, Wormit, Newport-on-Tay, Fife DD6 8PG Scotland. Tel. +44 (0)1382 541728 Fax. +44 (0)1382 543022 I've had a quick look through the E.H. Thorne catalogue and do not see them so I assume that Thornes do not sell them. -- Paul Walton Email : Paul@adrem.demon.co.uk Toddington, Bedfordshire, England. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 Jan 1997 09:23:28 +0000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Alyn W. Ashworth" Subject: Re: Bees and bullets Comments: To: bbirkey@interaccess.com In-Reply-To: <32CFFB9A.D28@interaccess.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 In message <32CFFB9A.D28@interaccess.com>, Barry Birkey writes >Maybe everytime we get one of those endless quoted replies with a >one-liner at >the bottom we (whoever) should send the mail back to them with a copy of >Netiquette I've recently started doing this by private mail (not posted to BEE-L) so as to cause no public embarrassment, and with a (genuine) offer of help if required. -- Alyn W. Ashworth Lancashire & North-West Bee-Keepers' Association. UK. (but I don't speak on their bee-half) ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 Jan 1997 09:05:31 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Judy Spradley Subject: Bees & Bullets irony Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I am a novice and was wondering if anyone else has noted the irony here - the beelist is about to "swarm" and needs to be "split"! Judy ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ A Displaced Texan in PA IRON ACRES - where the water is red and the grass is green! {AND THE COMPUTER IS NOT ALWAYS COOPERATIVE!!!!!!!!!!!} ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 Jan 1997 09:37:00 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "George W.D. Fielder" Subject: Re BULL ANTS BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU +++++ Chris Allen wrote >I know a beekeeper that uses his own special mix to put on the legs. It is >a greasy gelle that uses some sort of ant repellent/poison. I will try to >tack it down. Sounds like Tanglefoot or Tree Tanglefoot. This is s non-drying 'natural' gum. It is not a pesticide. It is more a physical barrier rather than a repellent. It is used to prevent ants and other insects form crawling up fruit trees. In this case a 1" wide strip around the frame members will work provided it is applied in such a way as to block ALL possible ant routes. It is available at Horticultural supply stores especially those carrying Organic controls. .......... george ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 Jan 1997 09:51:42 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Eric Abell Subject: Re: Making Splits Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 01:41 PM 05/01/97 -0900, you wrote: >Eric, > >> It is easy to miss the Queen. Perhaps this is an instance, especialy for >> the beginner, not to look for the Queen at all. Rather, place the split >> over the strong hive with an excluder between and check for eggs 3 or 4 >days >> later. > >Or, simply locate the queen, and set her aside, before making your splits. >then you don't have to worry about whether she is on a removed frame or >not. Tom, I agree. It is difficult to see where the Queen 'is not'. However, if you know where she 'is' then it is not too difficult to know where she is not. Eric Eric Abell Gibbons, Alberta Canada (403) 998 3143 eabell@compusmart.ab.ca ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 Jan 1997 09:51:45 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Eric Abell Subject: Re: Bees and bullets Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" And why do we >need so much stuff that is'nt even close to bee biology- painting, birds, >weed spray? > I visit here to learn about bees, the techniques of others and simply interesting conversation about and around bee keeping. Regardless of what the list is called, painting and weed spray are of concern to me and I welcome all messages on these topics. As to birds - these have been interesting although they are not vital to my operation. It is pretty easy to delete through the messages that are of no interest to me. It is also easy to delete through the 'twits' whose messages I never read anyway. I read two rules of successful living recently. I cannot remember the source but it goes something like this 1. Don't sweat the small stuff. 2. Most everything is small stuff. Eric Eric Abell Gibbons, Alberta Canada (403) 998 3143 eabell@compusmart.ab.ca ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 Jan 1997 09:51:48 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Eric Abell Subject: Re: Making Splits Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 07:51 PM 05/01/97 -0600, you wrote: >> Putting the new foundation or empty combs in the middle is rather >> drastic, as far as splitting the brood nest. What I do is push the >> remaining combs with BROOD together in the center of the hive body, >> and have the pollen/honey and honey combs at the sides, outermost. >> The replacement combs or foundation then go in the space between the >> consolidated brood combs and the outer food combs. > >I have wondered about this the many years I have been doing this, and >one time do it one way, and another time, another -- sometimes in >the same yard. > >I supppose it has to do with the 'art' side of beekeeping. When you >have a hive apart, it is apparent whether they are good wax makers, >or not. This is part of the unconscious decision making process. >Other fators, such as the strength, time of year, flow, swarming >factors, etc. will be part of the decision too, as will be the >question of how many adult bees will remain in the parent hive. Right. However, for the sake of efficiency and to give direction to employees, I find it necessary to determine a plan of action to use as a 'default'. >I notice each fall that some few hives have failed to complete the >foundation, while others have done beautifully, regardless of the >position of the foundation. My experience is that the comb is drawn almost immediately, in the center of the nest, and that the Queen uses it. It is unusual for it to be used for honey storage. However, I still wonder if I am holding back the Queen. This frame replacement occurs whenever we remove frames of brood so the colonies are always strong. I am beginning to feel that foundation might be damaging and now I am beginning to wonder if an empty but drawn comb might also be damaging. I would appreciate your comments. >Allen > >W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper VE6CFK >RR#1, Swalwell, Alberta Canada T0M 1Y0 >Internet:dicka@cuug.ab.ca & allend@internode.net >Honey. Bees, & Art > Eric Eric Abell Gibbons, Alberta Canada (403) 998 3143 eabell@compusmart.ab.ca ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 Jan 1997 09:51:53 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Eric Abell Subject: Re: Wintering Report Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 08:40 PM 05/01/97 -0600, you wrote: >> As a commercial beekeeper with 1200 colonies under the snow I find >> this list a great place to visit. > >Speaking of hives under snow... > >We (my wife & I) were out to check the hives today, seeing as it >warmed up to minus 10 or so. > >We unwrapped (briefly) 3 of our 4 packs and were pleased to find 100% >alive and as well as (better than) when they were wrapped almost two >months ago, now. The snow was over the top entrances on most, but >they didn't seem to care. We chose this yard since it was the last >to get wrapped and seemed a bit sad at the time. I visited a yard only to find that the snow had completely covered most of the pallets. I dug out the entrances but did not open the hives. Some of the entrances were obviously alive but others showed no sign on life. Most had a cave outside of the entrance but in some instances my shovelling destroyed any evidence of a cave but I suspect some are already dead. It is good to hear that yours are doing well in spite of being fully buried. Eric Eric Abell Gibbons, Alberta Canada (403) 998 3143 eabell@compusmart.ab.ca ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 Jan 1997 11:34:07 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Joel W. Govostes" Subject: Re: Making Splits, omitting queen Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Yes this is the most difficult part, making sure you don't take the donor colony's queen by mistake! I usually look for her, and once found, set her comb in a nuc box until I am done taking the brood and bees I want for a split. This is, admittedly, time-consuming and tricky. Eventually you get to the point where you are just looking at the combs you pull to ascertain the ABSENCE of the queen on them. A quick double check and you can be fairly certain you don't accidently take her away. I wish there were some way to "mark" the queen so that you could find her location in the hive quickly with a sensing device. Oh well, maybe someday. Radioactive tagging or something! :-) Later... JWG ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 Jan 1997 22:14:55 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: KEN LAWRENCE <"beeman52@worldnet.att.net"@worldnet.att.net> Subject: EASY SPLITS MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I run about 30 hives and this is my easy split method. I live about 25 miles north of Kansas City Mo. I will start feeding my bees the first of March (if weather permits I will start earlier) and have the queen laying and lots of brood. I then take out normally 5 frames of brood and shake all bees off. Replace these frames with empty frames(drawn or foundation). Place Queen excluder on top of hive body. (most of my hives are double) A hive body with the frames of the removed brood plus another 5 frames on top of the excluder. Put the lid back on and proceed to next split. You can work the yard and go back later and remove or remove the next day the top hive box and set it on bottom board shake maybe a couple more frames of bees in box and put cover on. Move to new location install new queen and you are done. Even if weather is a tad nasty you can still make splits. This way you have the right amount of bees covering your brood. You don't have to look for the Queen as all bees are shook below the excluder. I have very good luck with this method and is very quick and easy. Don't forget your Apistan strips as I lost 28 hives last fall to mites thru ignorance and putting all my hives in new mite control. Ken ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 4 Jan 1997 08:30:08 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Adrian Wenner Subject: Re: WHO ARE WE, etc.? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Personally, I take the side of Andy Nachbaur, Bob St. John, and Janet Montgomery on the issue of "brevity." A word of introduction to those who may not know my record. Four years ago I "retired" from the Univ. of California here in Santa Barbara. Despite that fact, I still have my office and lab there and continue on full time honey bee research --- for no pay I might add (no longer "at the public trough" --- my income now comes from investments, not from the state). Although established bee researchers managed to thwart my attempts to get government grant funding for the last three decades, I found that such an exclusion actually permitted me greater freedom to pay real attention to what bees really do rather than to try to get results that would agree with prevailing theory. I have found that professional researchers (bee studies or otherwise) often take themselves too seriously and worry quite a bit too much about how well they interact socially (biopolitically) with other researchers. For example, I have been trying to get established bee researchers to conduct simple experiments on the question of colony foraging patterns with respect to prevailing wind direction (experiments such as Larry Friesen did and published on back in 1973). So far, though, I have failed on that attempt, apparently because those researchers might get some results that could disagree with prevailing theory (as illustrated in recent exchanges in BEE CULTURE). Do I stay on BEE-L? Sure! As a fourth generation beekeeper (and now bee researcher), the comments and questions from beekeepers continue to bring back memories of the various experiences we all go through as we learn about bees. I do have one gripe, though. Sometimes the questions asked have ready answers in standard beekeeping books. It seems as if we can have a brisk exchange on BEE-L by people who do not read those books --- at times a "pool of ignorance" as some would call it. (Heck, I seem not to be able to get researchers to read some of the articles I cite.) Near the end of some of those exchanges I feel compelled to jump in and cite chapter and verse --- sadly suspecting that the reading will still not be done. At other times my professional tasks (such as trying to complete an article I am now writing on nectar, sugar feeding, and honey) do not permit setting the record straight, as it were. Here again, not how I waited until near the end (I hope) of this exchange on brevity before jumping in. With all best wishes for the upcoming season of beekeeping! Adrian Adrian M. Wenner (805) 893-2838 (UCSB office) Ecol., Evol., & Marine Biology (805) 893-8062 (UCSB FAX) Univ. of Calif., Santa Barbara (805) 963-8508 (home office & FAX) Santa Barbara, CA 93106 ************************************************************************* * "The difference between real and unreal things is that unreal things * * usually last much longer." Pot-Shots #6728 * * Copyright, Ashleigh Brilliant --- used with permission * ************************************************************************* ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 4 Jan 1997 12:11:20 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Bill Van Roekel Subject: Re: Making Splits Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 12:44 PM 1/4/97 -0500, you wrote: > * Originally By: Int:dronebee@norfolk.infi > * Originally To: Watchman > * Originally Re: Making Splits > * Original Date: 01-02-97 12:07 > * Original Area: E-mail > * Forwarded by : Blue Wave/386 v2.20 > >bee-l@cnsibm.albany.edu wrote: >> Hello All! >> >> Well, it's January now so I guess we frightened, apprehensive, new-bees >> can start some threads on spring management! I am entering into my third >> season of beekeeping, and have two hives, both started last year from 5 >> pound packages. (I lost all ONE of my hives the year before to mites and >> ignorance). The packages did very well last year, and seemed very strong >> going into winter. I took my honey off early, (1st week in Sept.) and >> left the fall flow for the bees, I also treated with Apistan as soon as >> my honey was off and did not seem to have a great mite problem when I >> closed up for the winter. Recent inspections on our recent 65-70 degree >> days have revealed a lot of activity, and the hives still seem fairly >> heavy with stores. >> >> My question is this. I plan to split both of my hives this year to head >> of swarming and to increase my number of hives from two to four. I know >> this is a VERY regional thing with times varying widely based on climate, >> but I would appreciate some tips from you on how to proceed, what to look >> for, and any horrifying/great success stories you may have. I plan to >> review "The_Hive_and_the_Honeybee" for more tip/procedures, and would >> also appreciate more reading suggestions. >> >> Thank you very much, for myself, and other beginners who will benefit >> from this thread. >> >> Steve Creasy- >> Maryville, Tennessee, USA >> Prov. 24:13, 25:16 > Honey production is directly proportional to the availability of nectar >and honeybee population. Splitting your honeybee population will achieve >pricesely that, reduced honey production by a big factor! You have to >decide on what you want to have more hives or more honey! It might be >wiser for you to buy package honeybees (notice that I always use the >word honeybees as in contrast to just bees!) and go for the honey! (I >love puns!) Economics, dear friend! >Don't forget: If economics allow, come and visit the 54th AFC onvention >at Norfolk, Virgina (USA) 15-18 Jan 97. >HAPYY NEW YEAR. MERRY BEEKEEPING. >Dr. Pedro P. Rodriguez >Virginia Beach, Virginia 23454 >Phone:757-486-1573 >dronebe@norfolk.infi.net > > >... ISLAM: If stuff happens, it's the will of Allah. > >___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20 A study in the Bee Journal on honey production maybe two years ago demonstrated that splitting a colony-- or at least removing a portion of the brood and bees, I can't remember if it was an actual 2 from 1 split-- INCREASED the honey production. I didn't think it was correct either,(and those doing the research were surprised) but that is what their records indicated. I'm sorry I cannot give the date of the magazine, perhaps someone else on the list can remember it also. Bill Van Roekel Ames, Iowa beevr@iastate.edu ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 4 Jan 1997 17:54:13 -0800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: 105085 Subject: Pheromones MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Dave Green, Eastern Pollinator Newsletter wrote: > > In a message dated 97-01-04 09:19:01 EST, dvisrael@earthlink.net (Donald V > Israel) writes: > > < unseasonably warm for this time of year. What does this do to the biological > clock there has been so much talk about lately?>> > > I've found that (in South Carolina) November and December are pretty slow > months, and you can't stimulate the queen if you try. By early January she > is already going, but you can't stimulate her much. By late in the month and > into February, she'll get turned on. A natural flow (maple, canola, willow, > etc.) will get them brooded up. I think the stimulation is caused by pollen > as well as nectar. If the pollen is absent, they won't get stimulated much. > > From late January onward, we have to be cautious about management when > there are warm spells. One thing that I've seen is bees brooded up too > early, and a sharp temperature drop makes them contract the cluster and outer > brood is chilled. It really sets a hive back, and can even kill them, in > trying to deal with all the dead corpses. > > The other effect is increase in food consumption. Bees don't eat much > where there is little brood, and death up to mid-January is usually not > starvation, but other factors causing weak hives (stored poisoned pollen, > poor queen, mites, etc.) > > Once they have a lot of brood they get real hungry. The maple flow here > usually hits around the turn between Jan & Feb. Then it is quite barren > until the end of March. If the maple flow is good, I plan on a lot more > feeding, because the brooded-up bees will eat more. The most powerful hives > are apt to starve in mid-March, when they outrun the meagre nectar supplies > they can find. > > This is one reason I like canola, which will yield for the entire late > winter, and freezes will not stop the flow. Most other plants will stop > yielding if there is a freeze, at least until new buds open. > > << No one answered my request for info on how to round up honey bees from > 80 feet in a pine tree.(round up as in cattle not poison them). It > haooened to me two times last year and I lost them. >> > > The problem is not unsolveable, but saving high swarms is not cost > effective. I've decided that any swarm over 8 feet is not worth chasing. > Falling off a ladder is not my cup-of-tea. Being out of commission in the > spring would sink my business, as I've GOT to have the bees on the crops when > they bloom. Funerals, including my own, are still not an acceptable excuse. > > Last spring an employee was determined to get a swarm in a sapling, about > 15 feet up. He's an agile, vigorous, young Mexican, and I could have stopped > him only by threatening to fire him. So I held my breath as he climbed the > sapling. Slowly it bowed over until the swarm was down to ground level, and > he was back with his feet on the ground. We put a hive down and they were > starting to run in, but he couldn't hold the tree indefinitely. When he let > go, the tree whipped back up, the surprised bees were mostly dropped on the > ground. After a moments thought, they took off, en masse, and went up one of > those "80 foot" pines. So much for that. > > Its a good idea to hive swarms at dusk, but we can't always come back > the necessary miles to catch one swarm, which may-or-may-not be still there. > > Swarm catchers can be purchased or made, using shop vacs. But it is an > extra piece of equipment to haul around. -Not to speak of carrying the length > of pipe needed. > > Bait boxes, are another solution, but it's iffy. The higher the boxes, > the better the catch rate. You can also purchase pheromones to attract them, > but I've not tried this. > > The best bet is to not let the bees swarm. Wild swarms are now quite > rare, and if I manage my own bees as they should be, these swarms should also > be rare. > > So I just wave goodbye to high swarms. It's sad. I wish I could tell > them that they are carrying the vampires that will build up and kill them. > Without my care, they are doomed ---Dead bees that just don't know it yet. > > But they ignore what I tell them. There's a sermon in there somewhere. > > Pollinator@aol.com Dave Green, PO Box 1200, Hemingway, SC > 29554 (Dave & Jan's Pollination Service, Pot o'Gold Honey Co.) > > Practical Pollination Home Page Dave & Janice Green > http://users.aol.com/pollinator/polpage1.html > > Jan's Sweetness and Light Varietal Honeys and Gift Sets > http://users.aol.com/SweetnessL/sweetlit.htm Where do I purchase pheromones, and how do I use them? Harry Cronk Cronk@IBM.Net ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 4 Jan 1997 17:15:30 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Adrian Wenner Subject: Re: Spelling help Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >Aloha to all bee-liners and happy new year The same to Walter Patton and all other beekeepers and researchers! > Before this group gets split up into sophisticated sub (snoot) >groups could I seek info from the group about the correct spelling of our >beloved. Is it HONEYBEE or is it HONEY BEE. I see it both ways and I'm sure >some old drones or GOV.paid professionals will be able to set me straight >on this matter. In reference to Walter's question (though NOT a Gov. paid professional), may I quote from an opening statement in a book I published in 1971 (THE BEE LANGUAGE CONTROVERSY: AN EXPERIENCE IN SCIENCE): "My spelling of 'honey bee' follows the tradition in entomology." That is, if an insect really is what we know it to be, we use two words (e.g., honey bee, hover fly, bot fly, rove beetle) By contrast, if an insect falls outside what we consider common sense (e.g., butterfly, dragonfly), we reflect that situation by using only one word (a dragonfly is neither a dragon nor a real fly!). Unfortunately, standard dictionaries follow no such tradition, causing those of who are authors much grief! Someday I hope those who write dictionaries straighten out their act! Adrian Adrian M. Wenner (805) 893-2838 (UCSB office) Ecol., Evol., & Marine Biology (805) 893-8062 (UCSB FAX) Univ. of Calif., Santa Barbara (805) 963-8508 (home office & FAX) Santa Barbara, CA 93106 ************************************************************************* * "The difference between real and unreal things is that unreal things * * usually last much longer." Pot-Shots #6728 * * Copyright, Ashleigh Brilliant --- used with permission * ************************************************************************* ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 4 Jan 1997 23:00:58 -0500 Reply-To: dronebee@norfolk.infi.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Dr. Pedro Rodriguez" Organization: InfiNet Subject: Re: rhetoric/J.D. Saterfield et al self proclaimed redemptors MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit James D Satterfield wrote: > > On Thu, 2 Jan 1997, Dr. Pedro Rodriguez wrote: > > > > The medium does not determine the > > "quality" of research. Time is the test for the veracity of assertions > > made by investigators. > > > > Sorry, but you are simply *wrong* in your first sentence. A refereed > scientific journal, where articles submitted for peer review before > publication can take place, will only publish articles that are deemed to > be good and to make a contribution to science. Articles that are bad > science and trash are simply weeded out. Such is the nature of science. > > You are correct in the second sentence, and I am reminded of two > quotations which are relevant to your recent statements: > > "Knowledge consists in understanding the evidence that > establishes the fact, not in the belief that it is a fact." > > Carl T. Sprading > > And the second quotation which appeared in a "Rules of Thumb" book. The > quotation was attributed to Cornell graduate student: > > "If you cannot duplicate your experiments, you're probably > not doing science. If others cannot duplicate your experiments, > you're probably lying. > > Yes, indeed, Dr. R.....time will tell. > > Cordially yours, > > Jim > > --------------------------------------- > Jim Satterfield email: jsatt@gsu.edu > --------------------------------------- I had promised to assume a "silent mode" regarding this forum. Since the mud slinging and name calling continues, I feel compelled to clarify my stance to the rest of you fellow honeybee lovers who may not have research knowledge and surely few have knowldege about my professional qualifications as a scientist. To all the recipients of this list-service who have risen on my behalf: my most deepest appreciation and thanks. To the clock-punching self proclaimed redemptors who must hurl unsavory insults at a fellow professional in an effort to justify their pay check to their employers, I have a brief reply. Contrary to you, I do not have to be a lackie to anyone. I have self-financed the cost of my research and will continue to do so ad infinitum. My credentials are as good as anyone's and perhaps much better than some of those who so recklessly dare as much as to call someone a liar in an international forum! But, ah, hiding behind the annonimty of a list-service. How cowardly! I bet not a single one would do it in public or via a personal signed letter. They would not have the guts. A true scientist does not challenge the work of his of his/her colleagues with insults. The least that a true scientist does is to tender an invitation to meet in a scientific environment to advance his/her theories (or findings, in my case). As a graduate veterinary doctor (University of Pennsylvania, 1962 and two years of post-doctoral studies at the School of Veterinary Medicine, Madrid, Spain 1981-83), I have read hundreds of thousands of research reports both in scientific and lay media. I am well aware of the vehi- cles for reporting research - IF - the author so desires. Everyone knows that there is no such set rule for publication! For those of you who must vow your head to your employers, YES. Because your employer gets financial backing for those reports! I have financed my work year after year and do not owe homage to anyone, hence I may or may not publish via any of your so called "authentic vehicles." I own my work and that is my prerrogative. Because my findings promise to be effective against Varroa mites and very economic, I feel a strong sense of responsibility to the honeybee lovers of the world to reveal my findings. I will do so in the near future! Those who doubt my assertions will have an opportunity to prove differently. Dr. Pedro P. Rodriguez 2133 Wolfsnare Road Virginia Beach, Virginia 23454 Phone: 757-486-1573 e-mail: dronebee@norfolk.infi.net ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 Jan 1997 10:12:39 -0600 Reply-To: allend@internode.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Allen Dick Organization: The Beekeepers Subject: Re: Making Splits MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT > >I notice each fall that some few hives have failed to complete the > >foundation, while others have done beautifully, regardless of the > >position of the foundation. I should clarify: The foundation is always at least partially done, but a few hives leave the lower corners or ends. I suspect that what has happened here is that the queen has been lost at the time of manipulation, too many bees have drifted out if we moved things around in the area, or swarming ocurred despite the transplant. > My experience is that the comb is drawn almost immediately, in the > center of the nest, and that the Queen uses it. It is unusual for > it to be used for honey storage. However, I still wonder if I am > holding back the Queen. This frame replacement occurs whenever we > remove frames of brood so the colonies are always strong. I am > beginning to feel that foundation might be damaging and now I am > beginning to wonder if an empty but drawn comb might also be > damaging. Well, I have felt that it is possible to divide the brood nest and cause supercedure or brood chilling -- especially if many bees are removed as well as brood, when much foundation is inserted. I feel that empty brood combs usually are stimulative, since the queen gets right to work and fills them. I actually prefer combs with some honey, and on occasion have inserted full combs of granulation, since they remove it almost instantly. Sometimes we alternate full brood combs and foundation or empty combs. Pretty tricky though. But all this is a judgement call. What is right today with this colony is wrong today with another, and not at all suitable for a neighbouring colony. That's why I tell my guys to do things much more conservatively that I would myself when it comes to inserting foundation. Better to be on the safe side. Regards Allen W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper VE6CFK RR#1, Swalwell, Alberta Canada T0M 1Y0 Internet:dicka@cuug.ab.ca & allend@internode.net Honey. Bees, & Art ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 Jan 1997 12:34:03 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Janet Montgomery & Dan Veilleux Subject: Re: Bees and bullets Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" AMEN At 09:51 AM 1/6/97 -0700, you wrote: > And why do we >>need so much stuff that is'nt even close to bee biology- painting, birds, >>weed spray? >> >I visit here to learn about bees, the techniques of others and simply >interesting conversation about and around bee keeping. Regardless of what >the list is called, painting and weed spray are of concern to me and I >welcome all messages on these topics. As to birds - these have been >interesting although they are not vital to my operation. > >It is pretty easy to delete through the messages that are of no interest to >me. It is also easy to delete through the 'twits' whose messages I never >read anyway. > >I read two rules of successful living recently. I cannot remember the >source but it goes something like this > >1. Don't sweat the small stuff. >2. Most everything is small stuff. > >Eric >Eric Abell >Gibbons, Alberta Canada >(403) 998 3143 >eabell@compusmart.ab.ca > > Janet Montgomery 104 Fallis Road Columbus, Ohio 43214-3724 Home: (614) 784-8334 FAX: (614) 268-3107 E-mail: MONTVEIL@IWAYNET.NET ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 4 Jan 1997 23:02:30 -0500 Reply-To: dronebee@norfolk.infi.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Dr. Pedro Rodriguez" Organization: InfiNet Subject: Re: Comment MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit bee-l@cnsibm.albany.edu wrote: > > Pedro R.: > > Apologies for my irrelevant comment. > > Mauricio :) Apologies are not needed. I thought that it was an error. Regards, Pedro ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 5 Jan 1997 16:40:07 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Adrian Wenner Subject: Re: Bees and Science Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >Glyn Davies, Ashburton, Devon UK wrote: >I've been on the list for about a year now, and after 20 years of beekeeping >I find the List absorbing for its insights to bee and human behaviour. >Soon after joining it occurred to me that the List was trying to do two things: > a) Discuss Bee biology - ie, Life-history, anatomy, behaviour, >diseases etc. > b) Discuss Practical beekeeping techniques ********* My reply: A point that I have been trying to get across for quite some time now is that one simply cannot separate the topics of bee behavior, human behaviour, and practical beekeeping problems. ********* Glyn Davies also wrote: >...Is it too naive to >suggest that maybe two lines could be set up? Would this situation calm >things down, providing less frustration and less stamping on others toes? >And perhaps permit more detailed discussion in each of these equally >important but fairly distinct branches of the beekeeping business. ******** My reply. No, in all respect I do not think so, for reasons given above. I have found that most people apparently would like to shy away from controversy (certainty is very comforting) and would like instead to be provided with rather stand-pat and ready answers to questions that arise. As we have stated in one of our publications,"controversy is the fuel of progress in science." Though momentarily uncomfortable, resolution of controversy really leads to a greater understanding of Nature's functions. Fortunately or unfortunately, life just isn't a simple system wherein we can gain "truth" in any one arena. The best part of e-mail exchanges, in my opinion, is that we do not have "gatekeepers" in place who can block opinions with which they do not agree (an all-too common practice in the scientific community). I'm sure that Andy Nachbauer would agree with that assessment. No, e-mail (and internet) exchanges now represent a major "revolution" in communication in the scientific world. Quite frankly, from my perspective, scientists are totally unprepared for this new development. The next few years should be very interesting, indeed! Adrian Adrian M. Wenner (805) 893-2838 (UCSB office) Ecol., Evol., & Marine Biology (805) 893-8062 (UCSB FAX) Univ. of Calif., Santa Barbara (805) 963-8508 (home office & FAX) Santa Barbara, CA 93106 ************************************************************************* * "The difference between real and unreal things is that unreal things * * usually last much longer." Pot-Shots #6728 * * Copyright, Ashleigh Brilliant --- used with permission * ************************************************************************* ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 5 Jan 1997 16:48:36 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Adrian Wenner Subject: Re: BULL ANT PROBLEM Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Rick wrote: >Does anyone know of a way to get rid of bull ants around the bottom of my >hives? The hives are on wooden supports about 18" off of the ground but the >bull ants love to get up to the hives. I am trying to keep away any chemicals >or other things that may harm the bees. You are luck; your hives are on wooden supports. The quickest way to stop the intrusion is to wrap some wide (3" or so) masking tape --- inside out --- around the support, so the sticky part is on the outside. Then you can have some fun watching how the ants try to get across that barrier. A slightly better solution is to use "Tanglefoot" or used motor oil smeared on the outside of each post. Personally, I have found something called "Stick-em Special" much better than Tanglefoot; it stays sticky longer. Adrian Adrian M. Wenner (805) 893-2838 (UCSB office) Ecol., Evol., & Marine Biology (805) 893-8062 (UCSB FAX) Univ. of Calif., Santa Barbara (805) 963-8508 (home office & FAX) Santa Barbara, CA 93106 ************************************************************************* * "The difference between real and unreal things is that unreal things * * usually last much longer." Pot-Shots #6728 * * Copyright, Ashleigh Brilliant --- used with permission * ************************************************************************* ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 5 Jan 1997 18:44:51 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: KEN LAWRENCE <"beeman52@worldnet.att.net"@worldnet.att.net> Subject: Easy Splits Comments: cc: Barry Birkey MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This is the method I use when making splits. I live about 25 miles North of Kansas City Mo. I run about 30 hives when everything is going the right direction. I try to make my splits the first week in April. (weather permitting) I start feeding the last of Feb if possible. This will give me good full frames of capped brood for my splits. I try and get about 5 frames. Most of my hives are double hive bodies. I remove 5 frames (if Possible) of capped brood. SHAKE OFF all bees and set them into another hive body. Replace the removed frames with either drawn comb or foundation. Place a Queen excluder on top of the hive and set the new hive body on top with frames of capped brood plus a frame of pollen, 2 frames of stores and a couple empty frames and replace cover. You can go ahead and make up more splits. The bees will move up thru the excluder and cover the brood and now you have the right amount of bees. Later in the day or even the next day go back remove top box fasten to bottom board place cover on and you now have a good split. I will then put on trailer and move to new yard. (All my bees are on two wheel trailers) This way you are not looking for the Queen as all bees where shook off below the excluder. I learned this from a beekeeper who ran 400 hives in Missouri. KEN ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 Jan 1997 12:05:43 -0500 Reply-To: dronebee@norfolk.infi.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Dr. Pedro Rodriguez" Organization: InfiNet Subject: Re: Making Splits, omitting queen MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit bee-l@cnsibm.albany.edu wrote: > > Yes this is the most difficult part, making sure you don't take the donor > colony's queen by mistake! I usually look for her, and once found, set her > comb in a nuc box until I am done taking the brood and bees I want for a > split. > > This is, admittedly, time-consuming and tricky. Eventually you get to the > point where you are just looking at the combs you pull to ascertain the > ABSENCE of the queen on them. A quick double check and you can be fairly > certain you don't accidently take her away. > > I wish there were some way to "mark" the queen so that you could find her > location in the hive quickly with a sensing device. Oh well, maybe > someday. Radioactive tagging or something! :-) Later... > JWG Dear JWG: Some time ago I read an article (National Geographic perhaps?) about bar coding for honeybees. Maybe some of the other beekeeper recipients can remember the source. I never have had trouble locating queens in my hives (eve when numerous) by simply using the 'national color code" for marking queens. 1996 and 92 were especially good because the color was white making the queen readily visible. But any of the colors used for the code are sharp enough to spot the queen rapidly. Why try expensive measures when we have effective and economic ones on hand. Besides, the majority of us "poor" honeybee lovers can not afford such expensive technology, I think! Regards. P. Rodriguez Virginia Beach, VA (USA) dronebee@norfolk.infi.net ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 Jan 1997 12:02:19 -0800 Reply-To: leonc@ccinet.ab.ca Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: The Christensens Subject: Re: Wintering Report MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The snow was over the top entrances on most, but > >they didn't seem to care. I dug out the entrances but did not open the hives. Some of > the entrances were obviously alive but others showed no sign on life. Most > had a cave outside of the entrance but in some instances my shovelling > destroyed any evidence of a cave but I suspect some are already dead. > > It is good to hear that yours are doing well in spite of being fully buried. > > Eric > Many of the beekeepers I have talked to are very happy to see their hives completely buried with drifted snow. They claim the bees do very well in this environment. Apparently there is adequate space around the entrances for cleansing flights and all. I always try to place my hives where they are sheltered from the wind so I have never had them drift completely over and therefore have no first hand experience just what others have told me. F.W.I.W. Leon Christensen ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 Jan 1997 11:32:24 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jerry J Bromenshenk Subject: Re: Montana beekeepers In-Reply-To: <199701041647.LAA28237@hitchhike.cybertours.com> from "MIDNITEBEE" at Jan 6, 97 11:50:32 am MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Not that I know. Most Montana beekeepers are large commercial operations who sell to Dadant. Jerry Bromenshenk ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 Jan 1997 11:52:34 -0700 Reply-To: darn@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Donald Aitken Subject: Re: Wintering Report Comments: cc: Eric Abell In-Reply-To: <199701061651.JAA03102@bernie.compusmart.ab.ca> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII I have a yard with poor shelter. In February of last year it was well covered in snow and few of the hives showed any action at the top entrances. I thought that most were dead but in the spring they were all (nearly all) alive. I believe that if bees are heavily fed in fall they tend to cluster in the bottom super and show little activity at the top when it is cold. Do not be discouraged yet! Donald Aitken 11710-129 Street Edmonton Alberta Canada T5M 0Y7 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 Jan 1997 12:44:05 -0100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Kevin & Ann Christensen Subject: Re: EASY SPLITS MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Default Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit . I then take out normally 5 frames > of brood and shake all bees off. Replace these frames with empty > frames(drawn or foundation). Place Queen excluder on top of hive body. > (most of my hives are double) A hive body with the frames of the > removed brood plus another 5 frames on top of the excluder. Put the lid > back on and proceed to next split. You can work the yard and go back > later and remove or remove the next day the top hive box and set it on > bottom board shake maybe a couple more frames of bees in box and put > cover on. Move to new location install new queen and you are done. > Even if weather is a tad nasty you can still make splits. > This way you have the right amount of bees covering your brood. > You don't have to look for the Queen as all bees are shook below the > excluder. I have very good luck with this method and is very quick and > easy. The only difference betw. your method and ours is that we simply shake the top brood chamber into the bottom one. we then put the excluder on the bottom chamber, then the top chamber on the excluder. We then proceed like you would. You can either run them as singles or put seconds on them later. We made 600 splits this way last year and we were pleased with the results. We used to worry that queens could be damaged with this crude method. But it seems that they can take more abuse than we thought and so we don't worry about it anymore. PS....Don't try this method if there is a big spring flow. It will make a mess and can be hard on open brood. Kevin Christensen Mallaig, Alberta, Canada ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 Jan 1997 15:52:12 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Eunice D. Wonnacott" Subject: Re: Spelling help Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >Aloha to all bee-liners and happy new year > Before this group gets split up into sophisticated sub (snoot) >groups could I seek info from the group about the correct spelling of our >beloved. Is it HONEYBEE or is it HONEY BEE. I see it both ways and I'm sure >some old drones or GOV.paid professionals will be able to set me straight >on this matter. Regarding this list I vote to leave it alone save and >except if we could find a way to make the members get a little more >pro-actice.I mean really the sweet little dialogue about re-queening and >swarm retrevial,etc are interesting and sometimes informative and yet still >leaves a lot to be desired as far as really trying to solve the real issues >facing beekeepers today.Several good questions have been raised and if the >question is at all thorney everyone shys away because we do not have the >answers and we all feel that it is hopeless to push for research help.We >should not give up we should get organized. Each of us has only one voice >that can only be heard so well and if the beekeepers of the U.S. could some >how get organized and working a plan we could have a major impact on the >future of U.S. beekeeping.This group of 4,5,or 600 could be the driving >force.No one else seems to want to lead the charge and often there is a >conflict of interest (National Organizations) or a fear of retaliation >(Publications) > At any rate the brave beekeepers get no real help. I for one am greatly >concerned about saving the U.S. beekeepers and food production and prices >like in the past. We beekeepers have been abandoned by researchers for >special interest groups. Here in America EVERYTHING is for sale and can be >bought for a price after all this is America and MONEY talks in this >mercenary U.S. of A. > > Well Aloha to all and Spring has sprung here in Hawaii >and the bees are building in some areas. >come visit Walter > > > >Walter Patton-Hawaiian Honey House and >Hale Lamalani B & B (House of Heavenly Light) >A Hawaii Beekeeper's Bed & Breakfast >27-703A Kaieie Rd.,Papaikou,HI. 96781 >Ph./Fax 808-964-5401 or hihoney@ilhawaii.net >http:\www.alohamall.com/hamakua/hihoney/htm. >"TheBeehive,The Fountain of Youth and Health" > What a tempting invitation this time of the year. Here in Eastern Canada, such a visit would appear to be a hopeless dream. Nice to think about though. Eunice W> ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 Jan 1997 15:53:21 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Eunice D. Wonnacott" Subject: Re: Spelling help Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >Aloha to all bee-liners and happy new year > Before this group gets split up into sophisticated sub (snoot) >groups could I seek info from the group about the correct spelling of our >beloved. Is it HONEYBEE or is it HONEY BEE. I see it both ways and I'm sure >some old drones or GOV.paid professionals will be able to set me straight >on this matter. Regarding this list I vote to leave it alone save and >except if we could find a way to make the members get a little more >pro-actice.I mean really the sweet little dialogue about re-queening and >swarm retrevial,etc are interesting and sometimes informative and yet still >leaves a lot to be desired as far as really trying to solve the real issues >facing beekeepers today.Several good questions have been raised and if the >question is at all thorney everyone shys away because we do not have the >answers and we all feel that it is hopeless to push for research help.We >should not give up we should get organized. Each of us has only one voice >that can only be heard so well and if the beekeepers of the U.S. could some >how get organized and working a plan we could have a major impact on the >future of U.S. beekeeping.This group of 4,5,or 600 could be the driving >force.No one else seems to want to lead the charge and often there is a >conflict of interest (National Organizations) or a fear of retaliation >(Publications) > At any rate the brave beekeepers get no real help. I for one am greatly >concerned about saving the U.S. beekeepers and food production and prices >like in the past. We beekeepers have been abandoned by researchers for >special interest groups. Here in America EVERYTHING is for sale and can be >bought for a price after all this is America and MONEY talks in this >mercenary U.S. of A. > > Well Aloha to all and Spring has sprung here in Hawaii >and the bees are building in some areas. >come visit Walter > > > >Walter Patton-Hawaiian Honey House and >Hale Lamalani B & B (House of Heavenly Light) >A Hawaii Beekeeper's Bed & Breakfast >27-703A Kaieie Rd.,Papaikou,HI. 96781 >Ph./Fax 808-964-5401 or hihoney@ilhawaii.net >http:\www.alohamall.com/hamakua/hihoney/htm. >"TheBeehive,The Fountain of Youth and Health" > Re the spelling question:> I vote for honey bee. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 Jan 1997 12:57:11 -0600 Reply-To: allend@internode.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Allen Dick Organization: The Beekeepers Subject: Re: EASY SPLITS MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT > The only difference betw. your method and ours is that we simply > shake the top brood chamber into the bottom one. we then put the > excluder on the bottom chamber, then the top chamber on the > excluder. We then proceed like you would. You can either run them > as singles or put seconds on them later. We made 600 splits this > way last year and we were pleased with the results. Hmmm. To take it a step further, we just take the top BC away and check both halves for eggs several days later and add a queen or cell to the half that lacks it. We found pulling all the frames out of a brood chamber too hard on us, not to mention the bees. Adding a cell allows us to skip looking for cells, which is otherwise a huge job. (BTW, what is the official word on the effect of cells in a hive on queen acceptance. I find sometimes it doesn't matter, and sometimes it does). There are several ways to get to where you only check one half: -- One is to label top and bottom '#N Top' and '#N Bottom' before splitting and keep records of results of queen searches when working them, so that once one half is found queenright or queenless, you can immediately deduce the state of the other. ('N' being and integer in a series). -- The other method is to do 'side by sides' where you put two floors tight side by side directly in front of each parent hive, and empty BC on each, and lift the original two boxes, one onto each. Several days later, a quick check will reveal which half has the queen. This can be done flow or no flow. We have done most of our splits this latter way for over ten years. (The balance have been done by stealing a little brood here and there while equalising and setting it over an excluder). Judicious, and I do mean judicious, use of smoke and the knowledge of queen behaviour *can* often arrive at splits that all have queens in one half or the other and roughly equal numbers of bees. We like to reverse once *at least* a week before the splitting, if possible to ensure more even amounts of brood in each half. Moreover, we carry both light and heavy BCs to use on the bottom and try to put a heavy on a light and vice versa. We find that bottom supering or more accurately 'brood chambering' at the time of splitting allows us to add the second immediately with no negative effects, and often good effect on strong splits which often have eggs and brood in the bottom within days. Regards Allen W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper VE6CFK RR#1, Swalwell, Alberta Canada T0M 1Y0 Internet:dicka@cuug.ab.ca & allend@internode.net Honey. Bees, & Art ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 Jan 1997 14:00:40 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: WILLIAM G LORD Subject: foundation in brood nest Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I keep 150 hives in northern North Carolina in 1 deep and a six and five eights super. Our honey flow is early and intense and over by June 1 with very little nectar until fall. I use queen excluders as an insurance policy over the summer to keep the queen out of the honey super so there will be honey for overwintering come fall. However, I don't like to put the excluder on until after the honey flow ( I usually slip them between the super and brood chamber when I am pulling honey and have fume boards on, I just let the fume board drive the bees out of the super too). However, if the super is a good bit filled with brood, there is not much honey stored over the excluder. I have been toying with the idea of putting the excluders on in early spring and relieving congestion by swapping out 2-4 brood frames with foundation, and putting the brood frames in a deep box over top of the honey super. I realize there are drawbacks, sudden cold snaps, splitting the brood nest, the fine line between providing an outlet for energy vs. sapping hive energy. However, I will be rotating old brood frames out, and the honey super will be filled with honey only. I am just curious if anyone else has any thoughts on this technique? Bill Lord -- william g lord E-Mail : wglord@franklin Internet: wglord@franklin.ces.ncsu.edu Phone : 9194963344 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 Jan 1997 13:19:05 -0600 Reply-To: allend@internode.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Allen Dick Organization: The Beekeepers Subject: Re: foundation in brood nest MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT > I have been toying with the idea of putting the > excluders on in early spring and relieving congestion by swapping > out 2-4 brood frames with foundation, and putting the brood frames > in a deep box over top of the honey super. I realize there are > drawbacks, sudden cold snaps, splitting the brood nest, the fine > line between providing an outlet for energy vs. sapping hive energy. > However, I will be rotating old brood frames out, and the honey > super will be filled with honey only. I am just curious if anyone > else has any thoughts on this technique? I've done it in thirds above excluders and double BCs with no problem. It does increase the brood nest size considerably, but at the right time, should be okay. I'm more comfortable with two than four. One thing people do forget about foundation, is that it takes a lot more bees to cover a frame of fndn than comb. You can get a big 5 storey colony into one BC and two Ross Rounds of foundation due to this effect. Since foundation is going into the centre and a cluster must form on it for it to be drawn, it will pull many bees that would be covering outer combs of you use too much. Regards Allen W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper VE6CFK RR#1, Swalwell, Alberta Canada T0M 1Y0 Internet:dicka@cuug.ab.ca & allend@internode.net Honey. Bees, & Art ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 Jan 1997 15:44:57 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ian Watson Subject: Re: rhetoric/J.D. Saterfield et al self proclaimed redemptors In-Reply-To: <32CF277A.2A4E@norfolk.infi.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII > James D Satterfield wrote: > > On Thu, 2 Jan 1997, Dr. Pedro Rodriguez wrote: > > > > > The medium does not determine the > > > "quality" of research. Time is the test for the veracity of assertions > > > made by investigators. > > > > Sorry, but you are simply *wrong* in your first sentence. A refereed > > scientific journal, where articles submitted for peer review before > > publication can take place, will only publish articles that are deemed to Dr. P. Rodrigues Wrote: > Because my findings promise to be effective against Varroa mites and > very economic, I feel a strong sense of responsibility to the honeybee > lovers of the world to reveal my findings. I will do so in the near > future! > Those who doubt my assertions will have an opportunity to prove > differently. This is another proverbial Dead Horse Beating going on... What is with some of you people on this list?.. If Dr. Rodriguez has a new agent to fight the mites then we should be happy and curious about it...I am, anyways... So his idea may seem outlandish to some. Well, some physicist said once that for a new theory to be accepted among the Physics community, you had to wait for all the old opinionated ones to die first! Thats the only way a new idea can get any foothold... And why is everyone jumping on Dr. Rodriguez, when we dont even know a blasted thing about this new treatment....Talk about putting the cart before the dead horse!...;) Lets all take a moment and remember that Dr. Rodriguez doesnt have to tell us his findings and is not doing it for the good of his health. "Oh, were it Spring. For idle beekeepers make for vain and tedius posts" Ah..now that my rant is over, I guess I can expect an Inbox full of flames...;) Regards, Ian @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ @ Ian Watson @ @ iwatson@freenet.npiec.on.ca @ @ @ @ THREE BEES: @ @ Bach singer ,/// @ @ Bee keeper >8'III}- @ @ Bell ringer ',\\\ @ @ @ @ 4 hives, 2 years in Beekeeping @ @ St. Catharines, Canada @ @ "I BEE, therefore I am" @ @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 Jan 1997 13:43:04 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: MR GEORGE E WILLIAMS Subject: Re: BULL ANT PROBLEM Bull ants are very persistent and have out lasted and out smarted me more than once. Doing war with them requires constancy. I've been advised by local 'oldtimers" that Bull ants live in wood so the first thing to do is remove any dead wood or debris from the surrounding area.. Then to try greases and other ploys. But, probably the best advice I received was simply "to move the hives". Sad-maybe, but it worked. Regards, George. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 Jan 1997 16:29:20 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: James D Satterfield Subject: Re: rhetoric/J.D. Saterfield et al self proclaimed redemptors Comments: To: "Dr. Pedro Rodriguez" In-Reply-To: <32CF277A.2A4E@norfolk.infi.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII I regret that Dr. Rodriguez chose, without my permission, to distribute to all subscribers the content of my personal communication to him. I'm not certain if he feels that, by the last quotation, I am calling him a "liar". No, it's much more than that. The quotation means that if *any* of us present research work that cannot be replicated, if we present it as "the truth", then we are lying. My main issue with Dr. Rodriguez has been with respect to what it means to "publish". In days past when I was moving in biological circles with research efforts, presenting a paper at a meeting of scientists was *NOT* publication. To have a "publication", it was necessary for the paper to have been printed in a regularly published, refereed journal. Perhaps in these days of electronic media, the definition of "publishing" has changed. I realize that this is somewhat off topic, but I would appreciate some insight from Adrian, Jerry, and other functioning "scientists" on what the current views are with respect to what constitutes "publication". This much is certain. If one's research is not published, it might as well not have been done. Also, I suppose I'm troubled by anyone who *brags* about the significance of their research before it has ever been published. I have *never* encountered it among my colleagues in the past, but perhaps it's quite the norm in other countries. Subscribers, I apologize for this use of the bandwidth. I shall have no further correspondence with Dr. Rodriguez, not will I add anything else to this thread. I really do *sincerely* hope that Dr. Rodriguez has the "magic bullet" that will cure all of our mite problems. Cordially yours, Jim --------------------------------------------------------------- | James D. Satterfield | E-Mail: jsatt@gsu.edu | | -------------------------------- | 258 Ridge Pine Drive Canton is about 40 mi/64 km | | Canton, GA 30114, USA north of Atlanta, Georgia USA | | Telephone (770) 479-4784 | --------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 Jan 1997 16:04:57 -0600 Reply-To: allend@internode.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Allen Dick Organization: The Beekeepers Subject: ABF or AHPA? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Well, with all this talk about the upcoming ABF convention, I thought I might swing by. Then I got out my ABJ and took a look. Seems the AHPA is having a convention too, in Memphis, starting on this Thursday, and it looks a whole lot more serious. They are meeting in conjunction with the Apiary Inspectors of America and the Professional Apiculturalists and The American bee Research Conference. The AHPA has published their whole agenda, and it seems like a Who's Who of US beekeeping, with major topics scheduled every twenty minutes or so. Now the ABF does not even have their agenda published -- at least where I have come across it, and they make some vague references to topics, including tentative ones. Some of them seem pretty amateurish to me at first glance in comparison. But they do boast "the largest trade show in U.S. beekeeping". Now, I'm really confused. It ocurred to me to go to both, but Memphis looks to be about 700 miles from Norfolk. I've phoned for info from both, but neither has responded,and I have to decide pronto! I hope I'm not opening a political can of worms here, but how do I choose? Regards Allen W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper VE6CFK RR#1, Swalwell, Alberta Canada T0M 1Y0 Internet:dicka@cuug.ab.ca & allend@internode.net Honey. Bees, & Art ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 Jan 1997 00:20:26 +0200 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Norbert Prantner Organization: Black*Box - http://www.blackbox.at/ Subject: Re: BULL ANT PROBLEM MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU,Internet writes: >Personally, I have found something >called "Stick-em Special" much better than Tanglefoot; it stays sticky >longer. I am a Beekeeper in Austria (Europe) and I have the same Problem. Is there anybody, who knows, where to get this tape ("Stick-em Spezial") in Europe? Thanks in advance Norbert Prantner email: Norbert.Prantner@oberland.or.at ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 Jan 1997 21:50:15 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Kirk Jones Subject: easy splits revisited! Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >This is the method I use when making splits. > I remove 5 frames (if Possible) of capped brood. SHAKE OFF all >bees and set them into another hive body. Replace the removed frames >with either drawn comb or foundation. Place a Queen excluder on top of >the hive and set the new hive body on top with frames of capped brood >plus a frame of pollen, 2 frames of stores and a couple empty frames and >replace cover. You can go ahead and make up more splits. > The bees will move up thru the excluder and cover the brood and >now you have the right amount of bees. Later in the day or even the >next day go back remove top box fasten to bottom board place cover on >and you now have a good split. I will then put on trailer and move to >new yard. (All my bees are on two wheel trailers) > This way you are not looking for the Queen as all bees where >shook off below the excluder. Good way to make lots of splits. I would like to add a bit to this explanation. You just take an empty box of drawn comb or foundation and dump it out. Now find hives in the yard that are bombers(gobs of bees). Take off the top and pull out a couple of frames of good brood, *gently shake* off the bees(don't damage the pupa, Dorothy) and replace them with the empty combs. Now put an excluder on the top of the same hive, set the empty box over this same hive, and put the two or three combs in it. Now proceed through the yard and pull combs from other hives and shake off the bees and fill the prepared box until satisfied. You can pick and choose as you go(from semi-strong hives maybe pull two or three combs-remember you are leaving the bees behind to continue on..just tweak them out to peak out at the honey flow). At the end of a yard of thirty or forty you may have a dozen or so, depending on the strength, of course. Art and science. Now...as you are working..go back to the hives with an extra deep full of bees sitting on top of the excluders and give them puffs of smoke occasionally. By the time you are finished with the yard, the tops are plugged with bees. We've even stick in a plug of wax to lift the inner cover up to allow more room for the bees to fit in. Lift off the third deep off the excluder, set it on a bottom, immediately screen the entrance, and move it to the next yard. I think it is better to wait a day to place the queens, as alot of the bees are older. My opinion is it is also a good idea to feed all the hives that recieve new queens to improve acceptance. Kind regards, Kirk *Kirk Jones/ Sleeping Bear Apiaries /971 S. Pioneer Rd./Beulah,MI 49617 *Sharon Jones/ BeeDazzled Candleworks /6289 River Rd./ Benzonia, MI 49616 e-mail b-man@aliens.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 Jan 1997 21:27:37 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Frank Humphrey Subject: Re: Making Splits MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > > My experience is that the comb is drawn almost immediately, in the center of > the nest, and that the Queen uses it. It is unusual for it to be used for > honey storage. However, I still wonder if I am holding back the Queen. > This frame replacement occurs whenever we remove frames of brood so the > colonies are always strong. I am beginning to feel that foundation might be > damaging and now I am beginning to wonder if an empty but drawn comb might > also be damaging. > If the foundation is placed in the center of the brood nest and flow stops suddenly, I have seen it become like a barrier so that the bees work only one side of the hive before beginning to draw it out. When this happens the queen is now effectively laying in a four or five frame nuc. I do however recommend this method when the colony is extremely strong early in the flow and the weather remains good. If periods of prolonged rain or extreme cold occur, I go in and move underway foundation further out. This way the bees can use what little nectar they are getting to raise brood instead of drawing comb. Frank Humphrey beekeepr@cdc.net ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 Jan 1997 21:37:40 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Carl H. Powell" Subject: Re: Sanity??? -=> Quoting Int:bee-l@cnsibm.albany.e to Watchman <=- In> At 12:42 30/12/96 -0500, Pedro Rodriguez wrote: >I can PROUDLY claim that I have developed a method that kills Varroa and >HTM's. I will make my findings known at the 54th Annual Convention of >The American Beekeeping Federation coming January 15-18, 1996. I can In> ^^^^^^^^^^^^ >assure you that after that you can FORGET .... In> AND.. In> Wed, 1 Jan 1997 23:50:24 >... I know that many of you are going to write back to me again >complaining (hopefully not about my spelling) about the sanity and >willingness to challenge established practices!... In> After all the bluff you have been posting for days, I certanly hope In> you got a solution... about your sanity...mmhh???, you better hurry up, In> the Convention was held almost a year ago!!!! In> Mauricio ;) Mauricio, Hi! I have reason to think that the good Dr. meant 1997.... If nobody is there I am going to be awfully upset about burning three days vacation when I only get a week a year! Now I know there is no vacation from beekeeping, I meant from my mudane job, the one that pays the rent currently.... :-) Carl watchman@qwick.net ... "What?!? This isn't the Files section?!?" ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 Jan 1997 20:18:42 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Eric Abell Subject: Still alive Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" It warmed up today so I took a chance and set out to open some hives. I know I cannot do anything to help them but as I made a lot of changes in my winter preparations I am more anxious than normal. I undertook this inspection knowing that if I did not find good colonies I would be depressed for months before I could really get into them. My plan was to sample a few and extrapolate to my entire operation so I set out to open a carefully constructed sample. First, I made a list of all of the yards that were within reasonable driving distance and within a reasonable walk from the road. The snow is 3 feet deep so this was important. After the list was made I chose that location. Next I wanted to select hives at random so I waded through the snow to the first pallet and selected it. I was pleased with all 4 colonies on the pallet - nice sound, nice smell, and lots of bees and feed. More important - they were all alive. I rushed back to my computer and prepared a spread sheet to calculate the number of colonies I can expect to be alive in my entire outfit. After a little work I came up with the figure - 1198 out of 1200. It would have been 1200 but I remember culling 2 at the last minute last fall. So far it looks like a good start and there are only 105 days until fresh pollen is available. Eric Eric Abell Gibbons, Alberta Canada (403) 998 3143 eabell@compusmart.ab.ca ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 Jan 1997 20:22:28 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Eric Abell Subject: Cancun, Mexico Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I will be in the Cancun Mexico area later this winter. Are there any beekeepers on this list from that area who might welcome a visit from a Canadian beekeeper? Eric Eric Abell Gibbons, Alberta Canada (403) 998 3143 eabell@compusmart.ab.ca ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 Jan 1997 21:52:47 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Eric Abell Subject: Re: Pheromones Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" How about a little consideration. You can see that you quoted screens and screens of the old message to add one line at the bottom. Eric At 05:54 PM 04/01/97 -0800, you wrote: >Dave Green, Eastern Pollinator Newsletter wrote: >> >> In a message dated 97-01-04 09:19:01 EST, dvisrael@earthlink.net (Donald V >> Israel) writes: >> >> <> unseasonably warm for this time of year. What does this do to the biological >> clock there has been so much talk about lately?>> >> >> I've found that (in South Carolina) November and December are pretty slow >> months, and you can't stimulate the queen if you try. By early January she >> is already going, but you can't stimulate her much. By late in the month and >> into February, she'll get turned on. A natural flow (maple, canola, willow, >> etc.) will get them brooded up. I think the stimulation is caused by pollen >> as well as nectar. If the pollen is absent, they won't get stimulated much. >> >> From late January onward, we have to be cautious about management when >> there are warm spells. One thing that I've seen is bees brooded up too >> early, and a sharp temperature drop makes them contract the cluster and outer >> brood is chilled. It really sets a hive back, and can even kill them, in >> trying to deal with all the dead corpses. >> >> The other effect is increase in food consumption. Bees don't eat much >> where there is little brood, and death up to mid-January is usually not >> starvation, but other factors causing weak hives (stored poisoned pollen, >> poor queen, mites, etc.) >> >> Once they have a lot of brood they get real hungry. The maple flow here >> usually hits around the turn between Jan & Feb. Then it is quite barren >> until the end of March. If the maple flow is good, I plan on a lot more >> feeding, because the brooded-up bees will eat more. The most powerful hives >> are apt to starve in mid-March, when they outrun the meagre nectar supplies >> they can find. >> >> This is one reason I like canola, which will yield for the entire late >> winter, and freezes will not stop the flow. Most other plants will stop >> yielding if there is a freeze, at least until new buds open. >> >> << No one answered my request for info on how to round up honey bees from >> 80 feet in a pine tree.(round up as in cattle not poison them). It >> haooened to me two times last year and I lost them. >> >> >> The problem is not unsolveable, but saving high swarms is not cost >> effective. I've decided that any swarm over 8 feet is not worth chasing. >> Falling off a ladder is not my cup-of-tea. Being out of commission in the >> spring would sink my business, as I've GOT to have the bees on the crops when >> they bloom. Funerals, including my own, are still not an acceptable excuse. >> >> Last spring an employee was determined to get a swarm in a sapling, about >> 15 feet up. He's an agile, vigorous, young Mexican, and I could have stopped >> him only by threatening to fire him. So I held my breath as he climbed the >> sapling. Slowly it bowed over until the swarm was down to ground level, and >> he was back with his feet on the ground. We put a hive down and they were >> starting to run in, but he couldn't hold the tree indefinitely. When he let >> go, the tree whipped back up, the surprised bees were mostly dropped on the >> ground. After a moments thought, they took off, en masse, and went up one of >> those "80 foot" pines. So much for that. >> >> Its a good idea to hive swarms at dusk, but we can't always come back >> the necessary miles to catch one swarm, which may-or-may-not be still there. >> >> Swarm catchers can be purchased or made, using shop vacs. But it is an >> extra piece of equipment to haul around. -Not to speak of carrying the length >> of pipe needed. >> >> Bait boxes, are another solution, but it's iffy. The higher the boxes, >> the better the catch rate. You can also purchase pheromones to attract them, >> but I've not tried this. >> >> The best bet is to not let the bees swarm. Wild swarms are now quite >> rare, and if I manage my own bees as they should be, these swarms should also >> be rare. >> >> So I just wave goodbye to high swarms. It's sad. I wish I could tell >> them that they are carrying the vampires that will build up and kill them. >> Without my care, they are doomed ---Dead bees that just don't know it yet. >> >> But they ignore what I tell them. There's a sermon in there somewhere. >> >> Pollinator@aol.com Dave Green, PO Box 1200, Hemingway, SC >> 29554 (Dave & Jan's Pollination Service, Pot o'Gold Honey Co.) >> >> Practical Pollination Home Page Dave & Janice Green >> http://users.aol.com/pollinator/polpage1.html >> >> Jan's Sweetness and Light Varietal Honeys and Gift Sets >> http://users.aol.com/SweetnessL/sweetlit.htm >Where do I purchase pheromones, and how do I use >them? > >Harry Cronk >Cronk@IBM.Net > > Eric Abell Gibbons, Alberta Canada (403) 998 3143 eabell@compusmart.ab.ca ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 Jan 1997 20:50:47 -0800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Roy Nettlebeck Subject: Re: ABF or AHPA? Comments: To: Allen Dick In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Mon, 6 Jan 1997, Allen Dick wrote: > Well, with all this talk about the upcoming ABF convention, I thought > I might swing by. Then I got out my ABJ and took a look. > > Seems the AHPA is having a convention too, in Memphis, starting on > this Thursday, and it looks a whole lot more serious. They are > meeting in conjunction with the Apiary Inspectors of America and the > Professional Apiculturalists and The American bee Research > Conference. The AHPA has published their whole agenda, and it seems > like a Who's Who of US beekeeping, with major topics scheduled every > twenty minutes or so. > > Now the ABF does not even have their agenda published -- at least > where I have come across it, and they make some vague references to > topics, including tentative ones. Some of them seem pretty > amateurish to me at first glance in comparison. Hi Allen, I would go to the first one, it looks like meat and potatos to me. They did a very good job laying out there agenda.The speakers are some of the best in the subject that they will be speaking on. Thats a real plus. The people of the ABF are some of the top in the government , plus some researchers outside of government.Boy , that first group has some info that should help beekeepers. I wished that I could go to see the first one myself. In fact I wished that we could get some feedback on the Bee-L or some place on the meetings. I do think that both meetings will have substance.Its the way they promoted and put together the first meeting.They did a good job. I wished I was going , but it will be next year.You have a great time and maybe you will get to both of them.It is hard to choose , because both will have some good info.Talk about walking the fence. Best Regards Roy ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 Jan 1997 00:02:50 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Carl H. Powell" Subject: The FAQ's & form of Bee-L Hello all, I am only now beginning my second year of beekeeping and most of what I have learned has come from reading and talking to others. The majority of the talking to others has been here on the internet. The problem that was recently pointed out in an article in Bee Culture about why many people who come to assoc. meetings and then are never seen again really is true. I went to my first meeting, was introduced, and then next month was mostly ignored. I continued going however and have 'forced' friendships by being annoying to the point of being noticed and then promptly shutting up and listening. Still that is only at most three hours a month. I have questions and ideas (many misconcieved and or just plain wrong) the other 29some days also. I have worn some people out just about e-mailing them and calling them other times. For both the above problem with 'newbies' and people who may just be new to this list and/or computing I think I have a suggestion. What happened on another internet newsgroup in the alt.* class was certain of the 'oldtimers' who posted regularly were asked to put together the top 25 most Frequently Asked Questions for the newsgroup and also a statement as to the groups purpose. Once compiled one 'regular' was charged with maintaining the 'FAQ & Form' which was posted every 2 weeks to the list for all to read. Also the 'keeper' would e-mail a brief welcome and a copy to any new poster upon noting their first post. This might work here also. I haven't been here long so I will leave the 'acclamation of the new Keeper' to others if this becomes the consensus. Carl Powell watchman@qwick.net Tidewater, Va. ... Mary had a little RAM -- only about a MEG or so. ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 Jan 1997 00:03:00 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Carl H. Powell" Subject: Need Essential oil info.. Hello, Next Monday the Tidewater Beekeepers Assoc. meets and I was charged in November with finding information on sources of and reported outcomes of use of Essential Oils as a mite preventative/cure. So far I have contacted some suppliers who all agreed that this was a good thing and provided me with information on available sources, prices etc. I have also been reading and the concensus is that the use of essential oils in the bee hive is a liability hazard for the beekeeper and the industry. The use is unproven by scientific method and illegal by EPA standards (use of a chemical in a manner inconsistent with its labeling). The only chemical that would be close to being an 'accepted' essential oil would be menthol and that would be only when used as labled. I found that even TM patties are technically illegal (not EPA approved method of application per ABC&XYZ of Bee Culture 40th Ed.). I also realize that there are beekeepers who have used essential oils under various methods of application and that there is 'anecdotal' evidence that in some cases it does work. Similar questions have been raised about the major market product 'Mite Solution' which has also not passed EPA approval. If you use or have used either Essential Oils or 'Mite Solution' in or with your bees could you please send me an e-mail directly to Watchman@qwick.net with your personal results of use and a brief description of your application method. Please send these responses under the subject line of "Essential Oil results...". I will be compiling your responses to add to the information from the printed materials for our meeting. Thank You, Carl Powell Watchman@qwick.net Tidewater,Va. PS Please do NOT send all these replies through Bee-L... "Mite Solution" is a trademark of Tuttle Apiary Labs, Woodland, WA. Cp ... "Oh gross! He's wearing a sports bra!" -- Tom Servo ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20 -- End --