Received: from relay.internode.net (relay.internode.net [198.161.228.50]) by sysx.internode.net (NTMail 3.02.12) with ESMTP id allend for ; Wed, 29 Jan 1997 10:01:18 -0700 Received: from [169.226.1.21] by relay.internode.net (SMTPD32-3.02) id ADBD2F60140; Wed, 29 Jan 1997 09:41:33 -0700 Received: from CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU by CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU (IBM VM SMTP V2R3) with BSMTP id 7277; Wed, 29 Jan 97 11:51:22 EST Received: from CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU (NJE origin LISTSERV@ALBNYVM1) by CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU (LMail V1.2c/1.8c) with BSMTP id 7302; Wed, 29 Jan 1997 11:51:06 -0500 Date: Wed, 29 Jan 1997 11:50:57 -0500 From: "L-Soft list server at University at Albany (1.8c)" Subject: File: "BEE-L LOG9701B" To: "W. Allen Dick" Resent-From: Resent-Date: Wed, 29 Jan 97 09:42:33 EST Resent-To: allend@mail1.internode.net Message-Id: <17011867403481@systronix.net> ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 Jan 1997 23:10:23 -0600 Reply-To: allend@internode.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Allen Dick Organization: The Beekeepers Subject: Re: easy splits revisited! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT > You just take an empty box of drawn comb or foundation and dump it > out. Sounds like you use Permadent :) > Now find hives in the yard that are bombers(gobs of bees). Take off > the top and pull out a couple of frames of good brood, *gently > shake* off the bees(don't damage the pupa, Dorothy) How many times have we heard about shaking frames, with *no* mention of the damage to larvae and pupae? Glad you mentioned this! There is no need to shake off *every* bee -- just enuf that you can be sure the queen is not on the frame. A gentle 'quivering' shake is all that is needed. Another trick is to make sure that the new split only contains frames that have come freshly from a hive, and that all the dry old frames or foundation go into the strong parent colonies. That way, the bees will come up much better. Regards Allen W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper VE6CFK RR#1, Swalwell, Alberta Canada T0M 1Y0 Internet:dicka@cuug.ab.ca & allend@internode.net Honey. Bees, & Art ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 Jan 1997 08:40:34 GMT+2 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: MIKE ALLSOPP Organization: N.I.P.B VREDENBURG Subject: Re: rhetoric/J.D. Saterfield et al self proclaimed redempto Hi all Recent listings requested more info on the weather. So, to all you freezing Northern Hemisphere types, I'm sorry to say that it is a sweltering 40 degrees C at the moment on the southern tip of Africa. This heat has undoubtedly frizzled what little common-sense I ever had, as I am about to (briefly) enter the very regrettable Pedro Rodriquez - James Satterfield debate. I could launch a defence on the virtues of the rigorous rules pertaining to scientific publications, but will limit myself to commenting that (rightly or wrongly) the scientific community for the last thousand years, now, and for as long as this planet lasts, - will always be cautious about new information or ideas. And will only accept them after thorough peer review, and after independent corroborative evidence. The system is slow and often annoying, but in the long term it works well. The jingle to sell the most popular beer in South Africa is "it has stood the test of time". Ditto for good science. So Pedro, if you have good results, publish them and allow them to be judged. If you choose not to do so, they do not exist, and will never exist, no matter how many posts are sent to this list. Come on, this is a fantastic opportunity. Prove that the scientific community are the pampered fools that you clearly think they are. Publish and prove how blind and lazy and selfish we are. Allow all the scientists AND beekeepers out there the opportunity to see how important your results are. Or else, please shut up. Last little comment. All these great, industry-saving results are (we are told) to be circulated to benefit the industry. And all the years of toil were done for the sake of the researcher-forsaken beekeeper. But relax, the saviour for Joe Beekeeper has now arrived. Well Pedro, if your results are worth something, and it was all done out of concern for beekeepers, why don't you immediately post your results and solutions to this list to save the thousands of colonies and hundreds of beekeepers that you have convinced us that you have answers for. Why only talk about it, why only promises? Methinks this is all for Pedro Beekeeper. And now I am quilty of all those things this list has recently been criticized for - verbosity, personal attacks etc. And like James Satterfield, I promise, never again. Vanquished, and meekly departing Mike Allsopp Mike Allsopp tel (27)(21) 887-4690 Honeybee Research Section fax (27)(21) 883-3285 Plant Protection Research Institute pmail plant3/vredma Agricultural Research Council email vredma@plant3.agric.za P/Bag X5017 Stellenbosch 7599 South Africa ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 Jan 1997 08:30:01 CST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Vladimir Ptacek Subject: Re: foundation in brood nest On Mon, 6 Jan 1997 13:19:05 -0600, Allen Dick wrote: .. >Since foundation is going into the centre and a cluster must form on >it for it to be drawn, it will pull many bees that would be covering >outer combs of you use too much. > >Regards > >Allen > The best possition for foundation is the side of the brood nest. This means foundation should be inserted between the so called "cover comb" containing honey and pollen and the first brood comb and than again on the other side of the hive between the last brood comb and the other cover comb. This arrangment should allow the colony to produce wax and use it most economically. The brood put above the excluder should be situated just abowe the brood combs bellow and covered with combs of honey from the sides what enables the colony to form a cluster during nights or eventual cold spells etc. Best regards, Vladimir Ptacek ---------------------------------------------------------------- Fac. Sci., Dept. Anim. Physiol. E.mail: ptacek@sci.muni.cz Masaryk University phone: .42/5/41129 562 611 37 Brno, Czech Republic fax: .42/5/41211 214 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 Jan 1997 01:11:19 -0100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Kevin & Ann Christensen Subject: Re: EASY SPLITS MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Default Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit . > > To take it a step further, we just take the top BC away and check > both halves for eggs several days later and add a queen or cell to > the half that lacks it. > > There are several ways to get to where you only check one half: To take this a step further, we raise our own queens and have contemplated just putting a cell in both halves and letting nature take its course. > We find that bottom supering or more accurately 'brood chambering' > at the time of splitting allows us to add the second immediately > with no negative effects, and often good effect on strong splits > which often have eggs and brood in the bottom within days. We also bottom super " brood Chambering". It keeps them from plugging up the top bc right away etc. Kevin Christensen Mallaig, Alberta, Canada ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 Jan 1997 06:52:44 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jeremy Burbidge Subject: BEE BIZ REQUESTS MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Queries for Bee-L from Matthew J Allan, editor of Bee Biz Queries come to me which I can either handle myself, or direct to those most qualified. Perhaps someone can help with the following which are a little bit off the beaten track. a) The price rise in honey makes exporting more attractive for many countries that up to now had not been able to get into the market. A problem with many tropical honeys is that the water content is too high. Following an article about high-tech evaporators, the question of reducing the water content of honey using reverse osmosis technology was raised. Theoretically, the method should be possible, and it has certain attractions, but whether it is practicable and economic is another matter. I have spoken to a number of manufacturers of this kind of equipment, but nobody has experience of handling honey or anything similar. If anyone has knowledge of the process, of opinions on its feasibility, I would appreciate your help. b) I have picked up mutterings by concerned parties that there is conflict between the well-being of solitary bees and honey bees, possibly also between bumble bees and honey bees. I assume this is referring to competition between the species for the same food sources. If anyone can point me to the specific complaints, I shall be interested in following it through. It seems to me unlikely that the competition exists, or that if it does, the activities of honey bees are threatening others. On a less theoretical topic, would anyone care to give some feedback to a readerUs query? Toying with the idea of expanding his operation and giving up a paid job, he asks what are the single best and single worst decisions that commercial beekeepers have made during their careers? I reckon that leaves the field wide open. Responses to the above, or any other views that want to be aired, are welcome. Replies to the above can be sent to ruxbury@delphi.com for the attention of JEREMY BURBIDGE Many thanks for any help that can be given. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 Jan 1997 06:55:17 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jeremy Burbidge Subject: Bee Biz requests information MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT The editor of Bee Biz has heard of a programme to assist in the management of a commercial beekeeping operation, but so far has not been able to trace it. He would apprerciate any assistance. Where do you get it from, or them if there are a number. Criticism or comment from users would be helpful. Thank you. Many thanks for any help list members can give to BEE BIZ - Jeremy Burbidge ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 Jan 1997 10:02:13 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: John A Skinner Subject: Re: Spelling help In-Reply-To: <199701041652.GAA09886@lehua.ilhawaii.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Walter, The "correct" spelling is using two words because the honey bee is a true bee entomologically. Ladybug is one word because the ladybug is technically a beetle, not a bug. The stink bug is spelled with two words because it is indeed a true "bug". Grins, John John A. Skinner 218 Ellington Hall Extension Apiculturist University of Tennessee jskinner@utk.edu Knoxville, TN 37901 (423)974-7138 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 Jan 1997 05:04:00 GMT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Andy Nachbaur Organization: WILD BEE'S BBS (209) 826-8107 LOS BANOS, CA Subject: The FAQ's & form of Bee-L >new to this list and/or computing I think I have a suggestion. What happened >on another internet newsgroup in the alt.* class was certain of the >'oldtimers' who posted regularly were asked to put together the top 25 most >Frequently Asked Questions for the newsgroup and also a statement as to the >groups purpose. Once compiled one 'regular' was charged with maintaining the >'FAQ & Form' which was posted every 2 weeks to the list for all to read. Also >the 'keeper' would e-mail a brief welcome and a copy to any new poster upon >noting their first post. This might work here also. I haven't been here long >so I will leave the 'acclamation of the new Keeper' to others if this becomes >the consensus. For those interested in keeping honey bees (PC) you all are welcome to use the e-mail beekeeping faq responder at the Wild Bee's BBS. It alone responded to 3600 requests for bee keeping information in 1996. The system hold 150 separate text files and is supported by Wild Bee's BBS and donations are always welcome. (PC) Politically Correct ttul, the OLd Drone __________________________________________________________ (//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////) (//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////) /~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~\ : WILD BEE'S BBS Beekeeping Support BBS 209-826-8107 : : BEEKEEPING FAQ'S Beekeeper's Helping Beekeepers : : : : How to USE: : : : : To receive a Beekeeping FAQ via E-MAIL, send a message to : : to the FAQ name @beenet.com - For example, to get a copy : : of this message, (WILDBEES.FAQ), send a internet E-MAIL : : to: wildbees.faq@beenet.com ..To get a copy of the INDEX : : of APICULTURAL ISSUES AND ANSWERS newsletters (APINDEX) : : you would send E-MAIL to: apindex@beenet.com. : : : : Mail runs are 6am & 6pm, California time zone. The system : : and nothing is required on the subject line or in the : : message itself. : : : : FAQ (total FAQ's sent 1996 3600) Last update : : name one per message * NEW : :------------------------------------------------------------: : WILDBEES.FAQ YOU ARE READING IT. Check it 06-01-96 : : once a month for changes! : : : : THYMOL.TXT Alternative Mite Control 08-28-96 : : using natural oils. **** : : : : MYLIFE.TXT The real story of the "killer bees" : : from the orginial reporter. 06-01-96 : : : : PETA.FAQ This one is Unbeeleavable! 03-01-96 : : : : SOAP.TXT How to make Beeswax Soap 01-26-96 : : : : SOURCE.TXT Source of Info-Beekeeping Books 01-26-96 : : : : MEADLOVE.FAQ Mead Lover FAQ 11-21-95 : : : : HONEYPOP.TXT 100% Honey Pop recipes 10-30-95 : : : : YELLOJAC.TXT Yellow Jacket control. 7-25-95 : : : : FORMIC.TXT How to safely us FORMIC ACID * 7-25-95 : : : : HINT.IND INDEX of 30 different Beekeeping : : topics. From Malcolm T. Sanford. : : : : BKEEPING.FAQ HOW TO FIND IT ON THE INTERNET, 5-01-95 : : Adam Finkelstein's Beekeeping FAQ : : : : SUNSITE.FAQ ARCHIVES of Internet Beekeeping 5-01-95 : : news group and list mail, & more. : : : : APINDEX INDEX of Apricultural "Issues and : : Answers" APIS from Florida Extension : : : : HEALING.BIB HONEY & Healing, Bibliography 3-18-95 : : : : MEAD.FAQ HOW TO find information on making : : HONEY MEAD. The drink of the God's! : : : : WNHUB.LST Wild Net hub list, Pick up the BEE-NET : : Conference from 1 of 700 bbs's in your area : : : : FSHEET11.TXT US Beekeeping FAQ sheet from USDA : : : : SADBEES 1st Beekeeper Alarm on Bee Virus losses : : to US bee's, a must read. : : : : ALL HINT's & APIS NEWSLETTERS courtesy of Malcolm T. : : Sanford, Extension Service University of Florida. : : BEENET.COM and the WILD BEE'S BBS (sm) are *FREE* : : Information Services for Beekeepers and Friends. SYSOP : : andy.nachbaur@beenet.com, dial up (209) 826-8107 28.8 bd, : : 8N1, 24 hrs since 1990. : :------------------------------------------------------------: \__________________________________________________________/ --- ~ ~ ... Where the bee sucks, there suck I; --- ~ QMPro 1.53 ~ http://www.kuai.se/~beeman/ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 Jan 1997 08:38:29 -0600 Reply-To: allend@internode.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Allen Dick Organization: The Beekeepers Subject: Re: foundation in brood nest MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT > The best possition for foundation is the side of the brood nest. > This means foundation should be inserted between the so called > "cover comb" containing honey and pollen and the first brood comb > and than again on the other side of the hive between the last brood > comb and the other cover comb. This arrangment should allow the > colony to produce wax and use it most economically. Hmmmm. I have some concerns about this particular position for the following reason: since it is not in the centre, there is not as much incentive for the bees to draw the foundation fully. If if the bees refuse, these bare sheets reduce the effective width of the brood nest and number of contiguous combs available for winter stores -- unless the beekeeper comes back and re-arranges the brood chamber in the fall. Although the hive may be heavy, the bees may not have enough food in contiguous combs in the top box to last a long winter. I personally *hate* to disturb brood chamber arrangements in the fall. We are short of staff, busy with other things and sometimes have weather problems, and, besides, we know from experience that such manipulations are a great way to have colonies die unexplained deaths over winter. This is true in this northern country, but this is not to say that the recommendation might not suit a smaller operation with more intensive hive management or warmer climes. The reason I mention all this is that I did just what is recommended in the above quote with some splits this year, and some of them are going through winter with partially drawn and filled combs in both sides -- second comb in from the outside. I now wish I had put the foundation either in the centre, or at the very outside. (We had some very bad problems here with a very long-lasting and debilitating flu this year, and in spite of our best planning were unable to manage these hives as closely as we would have liked (in total there are less than 400 of these particular splits and most are okay, so I guess it isn't a big deal, but...)). BTW, one of the big advantages of the new plastic foundations is that they can be inserted in place of outside combs and used like follower boards. It matters not at all that they may not be drawn for several years. They are then handy to move further in when the need arises. > The brood put above the excluder should be situated just abowe the > brood combs below and covered with combs of honey from the sides > what enables the colony to form a cluster during nights or eventual > cold spells etc. This is a very important point that seems obvious to most of us, but bears repeating. Regards Allen W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper VE6CFK RR#1, Swalwell, Alberta Canada T0M 1Y0 Internet:dicka@cuug.ab.ca & allend@internode.net Honey. Bees, & Art ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 Jan 1997 08:47:38 -0600 Reply-To: allend@internode.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Allen Dick Organization: The Beekeepers Subject: Re: EASY SPLITS MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT > To take this a step further, we raise our own queens and have > contemplated just putting a cell in both halves and letting nature > take its course. We've done this and it is the most elegant solution, since one does not have to go out in the rain to look for eggs on the appointed day, but we are paying for cells, whether we raise them or buy them, and at the time of year that we are doing the splits, good cells don't come cheap. We only do it when we have surplus cells, and we always use cell protectors -- allows us to do it all in one visit. BTW, are you using the pails that I saw at the Co-op for spring dry pollen substitute feeding? Any comments on how good they are? Regards Allen W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper VE6CFK RR#1, Swalwell, Alberta Canada T0M 1Y0 Internet:dicka@cuug.ab.ca & allend@internode.net Honey. Bees, & Art ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 Jan 1997 09:53:12 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: RICHARD BARNES Subject: Re: foundation in brood nest Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 08:38 AM 1/7/97 -0600, you wrote: >> The best possition for foundation is the side of the brood nest. >> This means foundation should be inserted between the so called >> "cover comb" containing honey and pollen and the first brood comb >> and than again on the other side of the hive between the last brood >> comb and the other cover comb. This arrangment should allow the >> colony to produce wax and use it most economically. > Just a thought. Last spring I split 2 hives into 3. I placed foundation on the outer edges of the brood box that I took the brood out of and also had foundation on the sides of the "new" hive with 4 brood frames in the center. I did the split in early april prior to our normal swarm season here in South central US of A. When I next inspected the hives the foundation had a huge number of drone cells on the new foundation and a large mite population in these drone cells. I treated for mites and the hives survived but I had a large drone population the entire year. I believe that last year their was a thread about using foundation in the brood box to control mites by taking out this extra drone comb. With the new year comming on, I think this would be a good time to discuss this again. Richard Barnes rbarnes@halnet.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 Jan 1997 17:55:20 -0500 Reply-To: dronebee@norfolk.infi.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Dr. Pedro Rodriguez" Organization: InfiNet Subject: Re: rhetoric/J.D. Saterfield et al self proclaimed MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit bee-l@cnsibm.albany.edu wrote: > > I regret that Dr. Rodriguez chose, without my permission, to distribute to > all subscribers the content of my personal communication to him. I'm not > certain if he feels that, by the last quotation, I am calling him a > "liar". No, it's much more than that. The quotation means that if *any* > of us present research work that cannot be replicated, if we present it as > "the truth", then we are lying. > > My main issue with Dr. Rodriguez has been with respect to what it means to > "publish". In days past when I was moving in biological circles with > research efforts, presenting a paper at a meeting of scientists was *NOT* > publication. To have a "publication", it was necessary for the paper to > have been printed in a regularly published, refereed journal. Perhaps in > these days of electronic media, the definition of "publishing" has > changed. > > I realize that this is somewhat off topic, but I would appreciate some > insight from Adrian, Jerry, and other functioning "scientists" on what > the current views are with respect to what constitutes "publication". > > This much is certain. If one's research is not published, it might as > well not have been done. > > Also, I suppose I'm troubled by anyone who *brags* about the significance > of their research before it has ever been published. I have *never* > encountered it among my colleagues in the past, but perhaps it's quite the > norm in other countries. > > Subscribers, I apologize for this use of the bandwidth. I shall have no > further correspondence with Dr. Rodriguez, not will I add anything else to > this thread. I really do *sincerely* hope that Dr. Rodriguez has the > "magic bullet" that will cure all of our mite problems. > > Cordially yours, > > Jim > > --------------------------------------------------------------- > | James D. Satterfield | E-Mail: jsatt@gsu.edu | > | -------------------------------- > | 258 Ridge Pine Drive Canton is about 40 mi/64 km | > | Canton, GA 30114, USA north of Atlanta, Georgia USA | > | Telephone (770) 479-4784 | > --------------------------------------------------------------- Dear Mr. Saterfield: I still feel, TWO FOLD NOW, offended and slandered by your remarks calling me a liar. I expected an apology from you, but it seems that you really mean to call me a liar, as you say, "much more than that." Since I do not know if this is a prank (someone else using your name and handle), I am going to simply ignore "your" remarks. If you really wrote those remarks and stand behind your words, I suggest that you act like a gentleman and send me an authentic (I would suggest notarized) signed letter via U. S. postal service. However, I suspect that the originator of such remarks is a person blinded by bigotry to the point that he feels that a person with other than an Anglo-saxon name is not capable of performing reputable work. If indeed, you are the originator of above remarks, lets see where your colors lie and "authenticate your comments." And please do not beg for sympathy from the recipients of Bee-L listserv. You replied via this service reiterating your insults. The other 600 plus (?) participants are entitled to listen to my grievance. And believe me, Mr. Saterfield, I am aggrieved! Sincerely. Dr. Pedro P. Rodriguez 2133 Wolfsnare Road Virginia Beach, Virginia 23454 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 Jan 1997 10:17:02 -0500 Reply-To: dronebee@norfolk.infi.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Dr. Pedro Rodriguez" Organization: InfiNet Subject: Re: rhetoric/J.D. Saterfield et al self proclaimed MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit bee-l@cnsibm.albany.edu wrote: > > Hi all > > Recent listings requested more info on the weather. So, to all you > freezing Northern Hemisphere types, I'm sorry to say that it is a > sweltering 40 degrees C at the moment on the southern tip of Africa. > > This heat has undoubtedly frizzled what little common-sense I ever > had, as I am about to (briefly) enter the very regrettable Pedro > Rodriquez - James Satterfield debate. > > I could launch a defence on the virtues of the rigorous rules > pertaining to scientific publications, but will limit myself to > commenting that (rightly or wrongly) the scientific community for the > last thousand years, now, and for as long as this planet lasts, - > will always be cautious about new information or ideas. And will only > accept them after thorough peer review, and after independent > corroborative evidence. The system is slow and often annoying, but in > the long term it works well. The jingle to sell the most popular beer > in South Africa is "it has stood the test of time". Ditto for good > science. > > So Pedro, if you have good results, publish them and allow them to be > judged. If you choose not to do so, they do not exist, and will never > exist, no matter how many posts are sent to this list. Come on, this > is a fantastic opportunity. Prove that the scientific community are > the pampered fools that you clearly think they are. Publish and prove > how blind and lazy and selfish we are. Allow all the scientists AND > beekeepers out there the opportunity to see how important your > results are. Or else, please shut up. > > Last little comment. All these great, industry-saving results are (we > are told) to be circulated to benefit the industry. And all the years > of toil were done for the sake of the researcher-forsaken beekeeper. > But relax, the saviour for Joe Beekeeper has now arrived. Well Pedro, > if your results are worth something, and it was all done out of > concern for beekeepers, why don't you immediately post your results > and solutions to this list to save the thousands of colonies and > hundreds of beekeepers that you have convinced us that you have > answers for. Why only talk about it, why only promises? Methinks this > is all for Pedro Beekeeper. > > And now I am quilty of all those things this list has recently been > criticized for - verbosity, personal attacks etc. And like James > Satterfield, I promise, never again. > > Vanquished, and meekly departing > > Mike Allsopp > > Mike Allsopp tel (27)(21) 887-4690 > Honeybee Research Section fax (27)(21) 883-3285 > Plant Protection Research Institute pmail plant3/vredma > Agricultural Research Council email vredma@plant3.agric.za > P/Bag X5017 > Stellenbosch 7599 > South Africa Continued Personal attacks: I am new at this type of techonology and I have yet to learn how to use most of its techiniques, thus I do not know how to "snip." Please forgive my inability to do so. I continue to be awed by the lack of decency of some people who hurl gratituous insults to people whom they have not even met once in their lives. Of course coming from South Africa where civil rights are equated to trash, it is understandable. In a true democracy, people have the constitutional right to free speech. Giving a synopsis to one's planned agenda for a meeting or conference has been an acceptable practice forever and that's all I intended to do when I made my initial comments. "My findings will be made available to the beekeepers of the world shortly," were, and still are my comments. These are the rights enjoyed by the people of a true democratic country, and I aim to assert them to the chagrine of bigots and ill-intentioned self-proclaimed dictators of research etiquete. I am surmising that private or institutional "researchers" can hardly wait for me to reveal my work so that they can work on it for their won profit. Soon, it will be there. But I am afraid that there will be little that the "righteous and mighty" might do to improve my method because of its simplicity. I owe my alliance to my fellow beekeepers. I am sure that they will enjoy the benefits of my hard work and I suppose that many will thank me. I don't expect thanks from the paid, insult-hurling buzzards who lurk in the shadows of their neat workplace drooling with envy about the achievements of their fellow men. Their intellect is held captive to their obligation to their pay check to the point that they will interfere with other people who may attempt to perform research on a private basis, as so well described yesterday on this medium by a fellow beekeeper and researcher from California. Sincerely. Dr. Pedro Rodriguez Virginia Beach, Virginia USA ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 Jan 1997 16:09:48 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Craig A Abel Subject: Re: Spelling help Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Walter Patton recently wrote: >> Before this group gets split up into sophisticated sub (snoot) >>groups could I seek info from the group about the correct spelling of our >>beloved. Is it HONEYBEE or is it HONEY BEE. I see it both ways and I'm sure >>some old drones or GOV.paid professionals will be able to set me straight >>on this matter. I've seen it written both ways, more commonly as one word. It is probably more accurate to write it as two. "Most" common names for a particular insect species (or small group of related insect species) are written as two words. The last word designates the order, suborder, or group of families to which the species of insect belongs. The first word is descriptive. Using examples may make this clearer. Examples might include house fly (on insect that belongs to the order Diptera, which are commonly known as the flies, that often lives in houses), stink bug (an insect that belongs to the order Hemiptera, which are commonly known as bugs, with this particular insect smelling bad when disturbed). Sometimes a common name used for an insect order (e.g. fly for the Diptera; and, bug for the Hemiptera) is used in the common name for an insect species that does not belong to that order. In this case the common name is written as one word. Examples include dragonfly (an insect which belongs to the order Odonata not Diptera), ladybug (which is actually a group of insects belonging to the Coleoptera or beetles not bugs). Since bee is the common name used to refer to pollinating Hymenoptera and honey is the descriptive part of the common name referring to its ability to produce and store honey, honey bee should probably be written as two words. Having said this, I think either way is currently accepted and used. Craig Abel (Entomologist) USDA-ARS Plant Introduction Station Iowa State University Ames, IA 50011 Please visit our homepage at: http://www.ars-grin.gov/ars/MidWest/Ames ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 Jan 1997 16:56:29 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Adrian Wenner Subject: Re: BULL ANT PROBLEM Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU,Internet writes: >>Personally, I have found something >>called "Stick-em Special" much better than Tanglefoot; it stays sticky >>longer. >I am a Beekeeper in Austria (Europe) and I have the same Problem. Is >there anybody, who knows, where to get this tape ("Stick-em Spezial") >in Europe? I am the one who posted the note about Stickem Special. The address and phone number I have for them is as follows: SEABRIGHT LABORATORIES 4026 Harlan Street Emeryville, CA 94608 (800) 284) 7363 or (415) 655-3126 Stickem Special, I have found, persists as a sticky material much longer than Tanglefoot and does not damage young fruit trees as much as Tanglefoot. One can use surgical gloves to administer the "goop" (Stickem Special) and have quite an effective barrier for some time. That company has been most helpful to me. I suggest you contact them directly; they may have some European connection. Adrian Adrian M. Wenner (805) 893-2838 (UCSB office) Ecol., Evol., & Marine Biology (805) 893-8062 (UCSB FAX) Univ. of Calif., Santa Barbara (805) 963-8508 (home office & FAX) Santa Barbara, CA 93106 ************************************************************************* * "The difference between real and unreal things is that unreal things * * usually last much longer." Pot-Shots #6728 * * Copyright, Ashleigh Brilliant --- used with permission * ************************************************************************* ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 Jan 1997 11:54:27 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Aaron Morris Subject: Splitting BEE-L? OH NO! Not again!!! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT "In the beginning there was BEE-L, and it was good. But lo, a desire came upon the land to make that which was good better, either through duplication or replication. And thought there were many who were sore afraid of such a proposal, it came to pass. And time showed that those who feared the split had sound reasons based on concerns of degrading and flooding with chaff that which was good in the first place, and alas, it has come to be!" From the scriptures, according to St. Aaron ;) > over time, *ten times* the current number of people who are presently > on the list have subscribed then left. I've watched them come and > go. > > What *are* the numbers, Aaron? > Subscription numbers are only available back to 1993 when there were 321 subscribers on June 1; 396 on June 1, 1994; 621 in '95; 801 today. This shows a consistent growth rate of about 75%. Reviewing the list of subscribers shows that a large number of original subscribers have left, reasons for which would be mere speculation. Fluctuation in the numbers show a turn over, subscribers come, subscribers go. And with that turn over comes a repeat in the questions asked and learning curves for new subscribers, both in beekeeping and nettiquite. And here we go again with cries of "Let's split up BEE-L!" Been there, done that. For the whole picture send e-mail to: LISTSERV@cnsibm.albany.edu with two lines in the body of the mail which read GET BEE-L LOG9401 GET BEE-L LOG9402 (You juno.com folks can forget it, the logs are too big, totaling over 11,000 lines. An extract from those logs totals just over 1100 lines, available on request to me personally, please spare the list). In any event, the issue again at hand is, "Might it be a good idea to split BEE-L?" Suggestions include BESTOF, COMMERCIAL and HOBBY BEE-Ls, and keep BEE-L (the original list devoted to bee biology). I don't know, the issue has been raised before with the main point being that a list devoted to bee biology is all well and good, but doesn't address the needs of the less lofty, more practical issues associated with keeping bees. Like it or not, the beekeepers have taken over BEE-L the end result of which has been that the majority of those concerned with issues relating to bee biology have gone elsewhere. Thankfully there are a few exceptions and I am grateful for their continued presence on this forum, and I am thankful that there are seasoned beekeepers whose talents and skills eclipse mine. It is for the research tips and seasoned advice that I wade through the babble. I would not miss the volumes of questions which are more appropriately asked and answered in an introductory beekeeping primer and would not miss the mountains of requoted material simply to ask a one line question which is also answered in an introductory beekeeping primer. Unfortunately splitting BEE-L won't solve these problems and will only add two, four or more places where I'll have to go to get the tidbits of new information I glean here. I think the crux of the problem is twofold, perhaps threefold, and has already been hit upon by other contributors. First and foremost is the issue of self education. The internet was designed to foster the exchange of NEW ideas. It was never intended to be a replacement for libraries and cannot approach the value of a well written book. I don't want to offend or put off newbies, but review of logs show that there are few new issues raised that have not been raised, discussed and resolved in the past. Suggested in the past has been to reach a consensus on a few good references and to answer the perennial questions with pointers to the sections in those references which contain more information and better written answers than one will find here. Perennial questions could be answered by "See page xxx in _ABCs_and_XYZs_... or yyy in _The_Hive_and_the_Honey_Bee_", thereby reserving BEE-L for discussion of NEW issues. The second problem adding to the degredation of BEE-L is the excessive requoting of previous posts. My personal habit is, "If there's a carat in column 1, don't read it!" Following that rule I can quickly flip through 5 screens requoting how lovely the weather is in Hawaii, to discover that the poster agrees! Don't get me wrong, the conversation is nice and friendly and cordial, but it's not very enlightening to those who come to this list for bee biology. What to do about it? Short of list moderation I don't see a solution, and I for one am not volunteering for the role of list moderator. I liked Allen's suggestion of a list to receive the "wheat", leaving the chaff on BEE-L, but who will assume editor duties and how do I know that what's chaff to the editor is not wheat to me? And I liked the suggestion of "friendly reminders" to excessive quoters, but who will assume the role of net police and who is to say that what's excessive to one is not crucial to another? Like it or not, to find that which is meaningful to ME, I must trudge through it all, which is something I am willing to do because in spite of the occasional skirmishes that break out between Hawaii and New Zealand, and in spite of tirades to round up all mother Earth mongers (I'm poking fun at myself here), and in spite of the loose cannon mavericks out there, I have come to know BEE-L subscribers as friends and comrades in my pursuit of keeping bees, no one excepted - I never met a beekeeper I did not like, and there are times that this list teaches me things I do not know. Solutions to the problems facing BEE-L are quite elusive and will take a good amount of effort and coordination to address and affect. In "learned" circles, BEE-L is like Rodney Dangerfield, "It don't get no respect". I was surprised that there was no mention of BEE-L in the _Bee_Culture_ article on beekeeping resources in cyberspace. As system manager of BEE-L's host site I took this rather personally, but when I discussed the snub with the editor I was told that BEE-L references were edited out of the article due to the chatty and sometimes misinformative nature of the discussion, and that more correct information is offered at web sites. The editor (who signed off BEE-L due to the high noise to information ratio, as did his esteemed wife - a bee scientist) had a valid point. Issues are chatted and discussed and hopefully resolved on BEE-L, but for a cut and dry, quick answer to a beekeeping question one is better off going to a web page, IF THEY KNOW WHERE TO LOOK. Which is why BEE-L is so popular and why there are perennial questions. If you don't know where in cyberspace to go, ask BEE-L and you'll get an answer! You don't need no stinkin' search engine, you don't need no special web browsers, all ya gots to do is be functionally illiterate in the E-Mail package on whatever hardware platform you use and you're in! It's easy to take for granted what an exceptional software tool LISTSERV is! So stop rambling and give me a solution, damn it! I said it before and I'll say it again, splitting BEE-L will only serve to dilute a rich and robust group and will do nothing to solve the afore mentioned problems. Whether users are chatty here or elsewhere, splitting the list will only spread out the sources one has to review to get the information they want. Do I post my question to BEE-L or sci.ag.bees or HOBBYB-L or COMMB-L or perhaps invade BIRD-L or do I simply spam all the even remotely related lists? And do I look for answers in the archives of any or all of the above lists? Hell no, I can't figger out LISTSERV searches, I'll just ask the question again. But circumventing the archives passes by a WEALTH(!) of information. Perhaps the logs could be edited to provide more concise answers to the perennial questions. Seems to me the solution is in a robust server, which has the answers prepackaged ready to deliver on request. That can be LISTSERV if someone does the work to encapsulate the answers (something I attempt when my day job doesn't get in the way), it could be a web page if someone has the skills and does the work, it could be Andy's Wild Bee BBS (or is that Wild Andy's BBS ), or it could be any number of solutions, provided someone will do the work and users can find it. The more I ramble on here (forgive me subscribers, for I have sinned!) the more I am convinced that there is no answer. Users will go where they are comfortable, some will be inspired to write, some will be inspired to web, some are concise, others ramble. The internet has been likened to CB radio, only with a lot more typing. Ultimately users go to BEE-L because they LIKE IT! It ain't broke, why fix it? In closing (YEA!! I thought this would NEVER end!): Please try to keep on topic, please become savvy with your mailer of choice so that you can keep quoting to a minimum, read a good book in the long winter nights, clean your room, brush your teeth after every meal and have a fun and profitable beekeeping year in 1997! Aaron Morris - thinking I've broken some sort of record here! ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 Jan 1997 11:04:40 -0600 Reply-To: allend@internode.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Allen Dick Organization: The Beekeepers Subject: Re: rhetoric/J.D. Saterfield et al self proclaimed MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Please, let's give this a rest for the time being -- or take it outside. I am afraid we have another *cross-cultural* conflict here between two perfectly fine people. And it really has no place on the list -- the personal and cultural part, that is. I can see that each has a different way of saying and understanding things. I don't think either meant to be impolite to the other. I am sure *both* have been unusually productive contributing members of society. Dr. Pedro's assertions have intrigued us all, and naturally everyone is waiting to see what is revealed. I am sure that to a man (womyn) we hope fervently that he does indeed have the secret, for he has promised to share it soon, and that the cost will be low. If it is all it is claimed to be, then we have been priviliged to have a hint of what is coming. In the meantime, there is natural scepticism. In fact scientists are trained to be skeptical, and so it is not unnatural that some skepticism should be expressed. And since scientists tend to establish a pecking order, and they don't seem to know where Pedro fits, they are perplexed -- as are we all. I am not, as you know, fond of hearing unfounded claims made for any product or method, but here no product has been promoted, nor method revealed; an unveiling date has merely been announced. Fair enough. Let's wait until the time comes and then we can judge. Should this discovery be all that he promises, then he can claim honors, and all must yield them to him. If not, well, the history of science is full of failures, and there is little shame in falling short, since failure is sometimes a roadsign to success. In the meantime, we don't know, so we can't say. I bet Pedro wishes he hadn't been tempted to hint at his secret. It must be a hard one to keep if, indeed, it is so monumental. I propose a truce until the day of the revealing of the method. Then, on that day, I am sure there will be something to discuss -- and test. Regards Allen W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper VE6CFK RR#1, Swalwell, Alberta Canada T0M 1Y0 Internet:dicka@cuug.ab.ca & allend@internode.net Honey. Bees, & Art ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 Jan 1997 10:33:34 -0800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Roy Nettlebeck Subject: Re: Splitting BEE-L? OH NO! Not again!!! In-Reply-To: <970107.120546.EST.SYSAM@cnsibm.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Hi Aaron ,Very good job and I hope many will read your post more than once.The part on books to get general info from is important.We should all have books to learn parts of beekeeping. The problem with books alone is the variables in you own environment that changes the behavior of your bees.The Honey Bee has been around for a long time. One very good reason for that , is its adaptability to different enviornments.We have the world on Bee-L so we do have many different perspectives of bee behavior. This is very important if you really want to learn about the bees.We are very lucky to have some great researchers on the list , that take the time to wade thru all the clutter and static. Bee-L is one tool and should stay that way. Not all the answers are here or in fact any one place. There is a wealth of knowledge here , but beekeeping is changing for many reasons. What worked 10 years ago will not work now. So we do need a place to pass around info on bees , where everyone is welcome.We need to thank those researchers from around the world for there info and time they take to help us. I think its time to look at what we do have. We have Bee-L do to the work of Aaron and Allen and maybe a few more.We have us the people that use it and make it for what it is. Lets take a look at the good. The bad would be no place at all with the flexability that this list gives us. Best Regards Roy ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 Jan 1997 16:02:38 -0500 Reply-To: beeworks@muskoka.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: David Eyre Organization: beeworks Subject: Re: BULL ANT PROBLEM MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT On 5 Jan 97 at 16:48, Adrian Wenner wrote: Re: BULL ANT PROBLEM > Rick wrote: > > >Does anyone know of a way to get rid of bull ants around the bottom of my > >hives? The hives are on wooden supports about 18" off of the ground but the > >bull ants love to get up to the hives. I am trying to keep away any chemicals > >or other things that may harm the bees. How about a type of tape we sell. It's called "Envirosafe Tape" comes in 30ft rolls is Teflon coated, self adhesive, 2" wide. Prevents 99% of creepy, crawlies from entering the hive. Stick it around the vertical surface of the hives. Cost $18 US Just a thought! ********************************************************* The Bee Works, 9 Progress Drive Unit 2, Orillia, Ontario, Canada. L3V 6H1 David Eyre, Owner. Phone/Fax 705 326 7171 Agents for E.H.Thorne & B.J.Sherriff UK http://www.muskoka.net/~beeworks ********************************************************* ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 Jan 1997 15:27:15 -0100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Kevin & Ann Christensen Subject: Re: foundation in brood nest MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > The best possition for foundation is the side of the brood nest. This > means foundation should be inserted between the so called "cover comb" > containing honey and pollen and the first brood comb and than again on the > other side of the hive between the last brood comb and the other cover > comb. This arrangment should allow the colony to produce wax and use it > most economically. This is the way we incorporate foundation into our BCs. Of couse we try to stress to our guys to only put in foundation where the strength of the hive warrants it. Its a judgement call: but that's beekeeping. Kevin Christensen Mallaig, Alberta, Canada ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 Jan 1997 14:54:16 -0800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Dan Mihalyfi Organization: sccoe Subject: Re: high swarms...... Comments: cc: Donald V Israel , "Dave Green, Eastern Pollinator Newsletter" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Donald V. Israel wrote: > << No one answered my request for info on how to round up honey bees from > 80 feet in a pine tree. Dave Green wrote: > Last spring an employee was determined to get a swarm in a sapling, about > 15 feet up. He's an agile, vigorous, young Mexican, and I could have stopped > him only by threatening to fire him. So I held my breath as he climbed the > sapling. I have read, but never tried this technique... Sling or throw a rope, use a weight on the end, around the branch the swarm is clustered on. Remove the weight and tie a frame of brood on that end. Then pull the other end of the rope to raise the brood frame up to the clusted swarm. It must be raised so as to come in contact with the swarm. The bees should move and cluster onto the the brood frame. Then you can then lower them down. Also, placing a brood frame in the hive body helps keep the swarm from leaving. I have tried this once and the swarm stayed. Dan Mihalyfi Mihalyfi Apiaries Watsonville CA Central Coast of California ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 Jan 1997 15:54:15 -0800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Kriston M. Bruland" Subject: Re: high swarms...... In-Reply-To: Dan Mihalyfi "Re: high swarms......" (Jan 7, 2:54pm) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii On Jan 7, 2:54pm, Dan Mihalyfi wrote: > Subject: Re: high swarms...... > Donald V. Israel wrote: > > << No one answered my request for info on how to round up honey bees from > > 80 feet in a pine tree. This reminds me of a swarm I caught with some friends last summer. The bees were about 25 feet up in a 40 foot red alder tree, clear out at the end of a branch. We sent our friend's child, a small boy of about 50 pounds who eagerly volunteered, up the tree with a rope. He tied it around the trunk most of the way up the tree and then climbed down gently. Then four adults pulled the rope, tug 'o war style, to bend the tree over until I could reach the swarm while standing on a ladder. I cut off the branch where the bees were and placed it in a hive body. The tree was unharmed, so were we, and so were the bees! The whole thing took about 20 very exciting minutes. I can hardly wait for swarm season again...it's really grey, wet, and cold here right now. I only lost one swarm last summer out of about ten that I chased, only two of which were my bees. It was in the very top of a 100 foot maple tree with no branches that could be climbed. They stayed there teasing me for an entire week before flying off to some new home. I even thought about shooting them down. Here is an interesting observation: I caught several swarms in the exact location at different times, weeks apart, last year. They were in a small oak sapling that had red geraniums planted around its base. Two of the swarms landed in other locations nearby and then relocated to the oak before sending scouts to find a home. There were many other possible resting places. Could the geraniums have attracted swarms? They also passed up a pheromone (sp?) lure I had in a swarm box less than 200 feet away. Next summer, I am going to plant red geraniums around small trees near all my bee yards to test this theory. While we all know it's better not to have them swarm, maybe red geraniums could entice them to land down low when they do! Kris Bruland kbruland@violet.chem.wwu.edu Member of Mt. Baker Beekeeper's Association Bellingham, WA U.S.A. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 Jan 1997 18:45:14 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Victor M. Kroenke" Subject: Re: EASY SPLITS Comments: To: allend@internode.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit One beekeeper that I know uses a little different idea for making his splits. I have never tried this as I have never tried for big increases but it sounds like a good idea and he is quite happy with his results. He starts with a strong hive and completely consumes it to make up nucs. Like 4 5-frame nucs from one hive. The old queen can either be killed or used in one of the nucs. He feeds the nucs and puts them into regular hive bodies a few weeks later. These nucs can build up fast and the hives can produce a surplus provided they are started early enough. In this area it is about the first week of april. You will need at least 2 frames of brood per nuc. A quite a few beekeepers in this area make their increase into nuc boxes instead of hive bodies. I have done it both ways and would vote for the nucs but it is more work as they have to be monitored and moved into hive bodies usually within a few weeks. Vic Kroenke Kansas USA ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 Jan 1997 18:22:45 -0600 Reply-To: allend@internode.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Allen Dick Organization: The Beekeepers Subject: Re: EASY SPLITS MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT > One beekeeper that I know uses a little different idea > for making his splits. I have never tried this as I > have never tried for big increases but it sounds like > a good idea and he is quite happy with his results. > He starts with a strong hive and completely consumes > it to make up nucs. This was described as "yard trashing", as I recall in an article in one of the US bee mags in the last 5 years or so. Good article. > A quite a few beekeepers in this area make their > increase into nuc boxes instead of hive bodies. Dave Green -- a wise and prolific contributer to this list -- mentioned, if I understood him correctly, an idea that has intrigued me ever since: he suggested that he used tarpaper (or some such) to divide a standard box when making splits last spring (or maybe it was the year before). Since then I have been thinking how one could drape 6 mil black plastic over the centre howevermany frames in a box to make a comfy nuc that would not require transferring later. Of course, I was dreaming of using something handy -- like the pillows Eric developed. Regards Allen W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper VE6CFK RR#1, Swalwell, Alberta Canada T0M 1Y0 Internet:dicka@cuug.ab.ca & allend@internode.net Honey. Bees, & Art ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 Jan 1997 17:33:46 -1000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Thomas W. Culliney -- Dept. of Agriculture" Subject: Re: Viral transmission through honey bee semen In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Sat, 4 Jan 1997, Trevor Weatherhead of Australia wrote: > > The other question raised by this posting is what viruses does Hawaii have? > Has there been a survey of honey bees in Hawaii to determine this? Hawaii has sacbrood. Status of other viruses in Hawaii honey bee populations is unknown, as no surveys have been undertaken. Tom Culliney Hawaii Dept. of Agriculture culliney@elele.peacesat.hawaii.edu ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 Jan 1997 17:40:59 -1000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Thomas W. Culliney -- Dept. of Agriculture" Subject: Re: Spelling help In-Reply-To: <199701041652.GAA09886@lehua.ilhawaii.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII By convention followed by the Entomological Society of America, as mentioned in another post, honey bee is given as two words because it is a true bee (superfamily Apoidea). House fly would also be given as two words because it is a member of the order of true flies (Diptera), in contrast with, for instance, dragonfly (one word), the many species of which belong to an entirely different group of insects unrelated to the true flies. Tom Culliney Hawaii Dept. of Agriculture culliney@elele.peacesat.hawaii.edu ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 Jan 1997 23:48:34 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Alden P. Marshall" Subject: Re: Bees and bullets Thanks for taking time to address this problem with individuals, education can do wonders. Somebody already mantioned it but I think monthly distribution of Netiquette would be of some help. Alden Marshall B-Line Apiaries Hudson, NH ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 Jan 1997 23:48:33 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Alden P. Marshall" Subject: BVT FYI NBC Network is telicasting Unsolved Mysteries which address bee stings as treatment for physical disorders. This program is aired in the Ma / ME / NH area Fri. evening Jan. 10 at 8 PM. It may well be shown in other areas at the same time. This will probably be of interest to quite a number of you. Alden Marshall B-Line Apiaries Hudson, NH ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 Jan 1997 23:48:34 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Alden P. Marshall" Subject: Re: Montana beekeepers Jerry, You aren't trying to make some kind of a point here are you? If you reply I'll probably miss it. I have to take a breather from all of this, I can only allocate so much time to reading and deleting. I was away for a few days and I thought I'd never catch up. It's "SET NOMAIL" for me for awhile. Alden Marshall B-Line Apiaries Hudson, NH On Mon, 6 Jan 1997 11:32:24 -0700 Jerry J Bromenshenk writes: >Not that I know. Most Montana beekeepers are large commercial >operations >who sell to Dadant. > >Jerry Bromenshenk > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 Jan 1997 23:48:34 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Alden P. Marshall" Subject: Re: Bees & Bullets irony Well put Judy. There are probably alot of correspondents on this net who have not read a word of the many publications on E-mail that are available. We must encourage education on this matter. A nice bit of input. Thanks, Alden Marshall B-Line Apiaries Hudson, NH On Mon, 6 Jan 1997 09:05:31 -0600 Judy Spradley writes: >I am a novice and was wondering if anyone else has noted the irony >here - >the beelist is about to "swarm" and needs to be "split"! > > > > Judy > > >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > A Displaced Texan in PA > IRON ACRES - where the water is red and the grass is green! > {AND THE COMPUTER IS NOT ALWAYS COOPERATIVE!!!!!!!!!!!} > >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 Jan 1997 23:48:33 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Alden P. Marshall" Subject: Re: Making Splits > > Steve Creasy- > Maryville, Tennessee, USA >> > >Here in California my bees are bringing in a lot of pollen and nectar. . I've had no losses >to mites in 4 years. I use only apistan in march, july, and november >for 4 to 6 weeks. Last year I took a full 6 5/8 super in January. >We have mustard, eucalyptus, a creek loaded with flora and lots >of backyards around. Drool on beebro's. > >Harry Sweet in the flood zone. >P.S. ABC's & XYZ's is superior to the H & the H bee, check it out. > Harry, Apistan Strips 3 times a year is a little scarey. Bees do move honey around from one location of the hive to another [brood chamber to honey super]. I have had no losses to mites for past 2 years using apistan strips, 1 application a year. Perhaps you could eliminate 1 or 2 of your treatments? Good luck, Alden Marshall B-Line Apiaries Hudson, NH ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 Jan 1997 23:48:33 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Alden P. Marshall" Subject: Re: BREVITY AND PURPOSE On Fri, 3 Jan 1997 12:40:25 +0000 Dave Black writes: >In message <32CB8598.2DC0@cc.umanitoba.ca>, Phil Veldhuis > writes >>If this list is _really_ a discussion of bee biology, then this >should >>be respected. If it is not, then lets clear this matter up, so that >>those people who think they are subscribed to a list dedicated to bee >>biology can unsubscribe and save themselves some time. I'm OK with a >>beekeepers chat list, but lets not kid ourselves. > I am also a new Bee-L subscriber and soon to be a former or less frequent reader if things don't improve. I really don't object to closely related bee / management subjects but the chit-chat on the list should cease. Are there subscribers out there that do not realize that all comments do not have to be made to the list. Paying more attention to this matter would reduce the extraneous chatter tremendously. Many of us want to see this list continued for what it was intended so lets all work at it. Please!!!!!! Alden Marshall B-Line Apiaries Hudson, NH ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 Jan 1997 02:17:24 -0600 Reply-To: dvisrael@earthlink.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Donald V Israel Subject: FLAMES AND BULLETS MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Is there any one out there that was born walking or eating steak? Has anyone never lost bees or had a question where others experience in invaluable? Ihave not been a beekeeper all that long and not a very good one either. I thought ALL beekeepers were like the ones here in Eastern NC. I have become a much better Bee Keeper with their help and from the computer(I am really new at that). Every local bee keeper will go out of the way to answer the dumbest queations or even drive 40 miles to help make candy and put a queen in a cage. I cannot believe the fight going on between Dr. Podro R and whoever. It is redicoulous (sp) that these two have to fight in front of 600+ beekeeping friends. Thanks for all the good replys I've recieved and even a snotty one or two. I really appreciate the gentleman that told me to edit when I reply. I was not born walking but had to crawl first. However After I learned to walk, I try to edit my replies so as to not resend stuff that has already been read. I"M sure that 550 people will delete this before they read it. Pease and Honey Bee stuff is all that is needed here. Trying to bee a friendly bee keeper Don ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 Jan 1997 21:17:33 +0000 Reply-To: bjfoster@xtra.co.nz Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Barry Foster Organization: Tawari Apiaries Subject: Humidity in hot rooms. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello to you all, this is my first posting on BEE-L. I wish to ask the question, what is the optimum relative humidity to=20 maintain in a honey hot room if one wishes to reduce the moisture=20 content in honey. I currently have an insulated room 9 x 7 x 4 metres which I warm to=20 +32=B0c (90=B0F) using two heat pumps coupled together outside which=20 circulate refrigerant to an evaporator coil and fan system inside.=20 With a timer I can make this go into reverse cycle there by=20 temporarily chilling the inside evaporator to condense ice to it. A=20 timed reverse back to warming cycle will cause the ice on the=20 evaporator coil to melt which can then be caught in a tray and drained=20 away out side there by it is hoped to drop the humidity in the hot=20 room. The system is very cheap to run. I know dehumidifiers are used in honey hot rooms in other parts of the=20 world and I would be interested in what percent relative humidity=20 other operators aim for. The lowest possible RH would mean more=20 running costs where as a happy medium might be 50% RH. Any ideas and=20 experience would be most welcome. Barry Foster Gisborne New Zealand. e-mail bjfoster@xtra.co.nz ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 Jan 1997 15:05:52 GMT Reply-To: Tim_Sterrett@westtown.edu Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Tim Sterrett Organization: Westtown School Subject: swarms in exact location I caught several swarms in the exact location at different times This is a not uncommon occurrence. Tim Tim Sterrett Westtown, (Southeastern) Pennsylvania, USA tim_sterrett@westtown.edu 39*55'N 75*33'W ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 Jan 1997 07:50:14 -0700 Reply-To: darn@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Donald Aitken Subject: Re: EASY SPLITS In-Reply-To: <32D2EE1A.4C3C@tyrell.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII I have been making up 3-frame nucleii in the following way: As early in the spring as possible, produce or buy as many queen cells as you need. When the cells are ripe, select strong overwintered colonies and use their frames with adhering bees to fill as many 3 frame nucleus boxes as you need. Use one frame of brood, one frame of pollen and one frame of honey in each nucleus box. Make no effort to find the queen ( my attempts to find her almost always fail anyway ). Put a ripe queen cell in each nuc, give each of them a quart of syrup with fumadil and terramycin and check then in a week. The one which contained the queen will be jammed with eggs at this time and can be put into a regular box. Nucs whose queen cells have not hatched can be put in with her. The others will normally start laying in the second week and can be used to requeen poor hives or put in a regular brood chamber and boosted with sealed brood from stronger hives. This method produces about 6 splits per overwintered hive and does not involve disorganizing the other hives in the earliest part of the season when they are starting to build up from the winter. Taking sealed brood from the stronger hives and replacing it with foundation later in the season seems to cut down swarming as well. Donald Aitken 11710-129 Street Edmonton Alberta Canada T5M 0Y7 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 Jan 1997 09:03:18 PST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Adrian Wenner Subject: Re: Varroa samples Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hi, Lilia. The beekeeper I work with was just given two bee colonies. He moved them onto campus for me so I could try to get some fresh varroa samples for you. He thinks they might have a high rate of infestation. I plan to go out there this morning, preserve some in alcohol, and mail them to you directly. Adrian *************************************************************** * Adrian Wenner E-Mail wenner@lifesci.lscf.ucsb.edu * * Dept.Ecol.,Evol.,& Mar.Biol. Office Phone (805) 893-2838 * * University of California Lab Phone (805) 893-2675 * * Santa Barbara, CA 93106 FAX (805) 893-8062 * * * * "The difference between real and unreal things is that * * unreal things usually last much longer." Pot-Shots #6728 * * Copyright, Ashleigh Brilliant -- used with permission * *************************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 Jan 1997 09:42:07 PST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Adrian Wenner Subject: Re: Apology and varroa biology Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sorry, BEE-L people. I hit the wrong button when sending a message to Lilia Ibay de Guzman about sending her some varroa mite samples. I inadvertently sent the message out over the whole net and apologize. However, I lnow repeat her original request to BEE-L members. She is at the Baton Rouge USDA/ARS laboratory and needs varroa samples from around the country for her studies. Her e-mail address: lguzman@asrr.arsusda.gov Now that I have your attention, we may be nearing the end of our varroa mite introduction study out on Santa Cruz Island. Three years ago we distributed 85 mites only on one portion of that uninhabited island (part of the Channel Islands National Park). For the first two years the feral colonies we monitored showed no adverse effects, even though we knew the mites were successfully reproducing. Then, less than a year ago we recorded one colony collapse after another, with varroa mites obviously responsible. The first dramatic symptom: a massive outbreak of chalkbrood, previously barely noticeable in the colonies. At that time we also found the colonies very mean spirited. Colony collapse also became widespread at nearly the same time on other parts of island --- far removed from the initial introduction sites. The sudden colony collapse without beekeepers being aware of an infestation now becomes more understandable. My impression is that a colony can harbor ever higher loads of varroa infestation and then suddenly reaches a breaking point. In this case, they could no longer keep their brood hygenic --- with the result that chalkbrood took over. In the old days we would call this "colony demoralization." The day after tomorrow I go to the island again and will be able to monitor the system some more. The manzanita is now in full bloom (as is the eucalyptus), so --- weather permitting --- I can determine what parts of the island still have colonies. Adrian *************************************************************** * Adrian Wenner E-Mail wenner@lifesci.lscf.ucsb.edu * * Dept.Ecol.,Evol.,& Mar.Biol. Office Phone (805) 893-2838 * * University of California Lab Phone (805) 893-2675 * * Santa Barbara, CA 93106 FAX (805) 893-8062 * * * * "The difference between real and unreal things is that * * unreal things usually last much longer." Pot-Shots #6728 * * Copyright, Ashleigh Brilliant -- used with permission * *************************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 Jan 1997 13:07:18 -0500 Reply-To: beeworks@muskoka.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: David Eyre Organization: beeworks Subject: Re: foundation in brood nest MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT On 7 Jan 97 at 9:53, RICHARD BARNES wrote: Re: foundation in brood nest > in these drone cells. I treated for mites and the hives survived but I had > a large drone population the entire year. > > I believe that last year their was a thread about using foundation in the > brood box to control mites by taking out this extra drone comb. > With the new year coming on, I think this would be a good time to discuss > this again. This idea is used quite extensively in Europe. One frame of drone foundation is added to the center of the brood nest at a time of year when the hive is producing drones. It has been suggested that just an empty frame be added, but I have at times tried this and got a full frame of worker brood. When the frame is fully laid and sealed, remove it to the fridge for 24 hours. This will get most of the free Varroa. The frame is then returned to the hive to be cleaned out, the bees re-ingest what can be re-used and the Varroa is expelled. This method is used twice, I am not familiar with the time intervals, it should be used when the next batch of Varroa are maturing. Perhaps Jerry might help. There are conflicts regarding this method. Some say that we will be breeding for Varroa. But when you consider that the Varroa is being removed and destroyed, I think that premise is incorrect! As a biological method I consider this to be a valuable alternative to Apistan.. There is at present no method of totally irradicating Varroa, all are stop gap methods of keeping Varroa below the economic threshold. At least this method allows control without chemicals! ********************************************************* The Bee Works, 9 Progress Drive Unit 2, Orillia, Ontario, Canada. L3V 6H1 David Eyre, Owner. Phone/Fax 705 326 7171 Agents for E.H.Thorne & B.J.Sherriff UK http://www.muskoka.net/~beeworks ********************************************************* ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 Jan 1997 13:07:19 -0500 Reply-To: beeworks@muskoka.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: David Eyre Organization: beeworks Subject: Re: Cheeky?!! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT In view of all the misery on the Bee-L recently I thought a little humour wouldn't go amiss. I recieved the following this a.m and pondered on the cheek, but also on the possibilities this would open!! >On 8 Jan 97 at 3:13, ALTDOC4@aol.com wrote: send me money > would you be so kind to send me some of the profits from your beehives. > My name is Jeff Lee Langstroth. I am the namesake of the Langstroth > name. > > Thank You > Jeff Langstroth > Regards to all. ********************************************************* The Bee Works, 9 Progress Drive Unit 2, Orillia, Ontario, Canada. L3V 6H1 David Eyre, Owner. Phone/Fax 705 326 7171 Agents for E.H.Thorne & B.J.Sherriff UK http://www.muskoka.net/~beeworks ********************************************************* ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 Jan 1997 13:40:44 EST Reply-To: "Glen B. Glater" Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Glen B. Glater" Subject: Bumbler game demo for the Mac, FYI Hello fellow bee folks! I thought that this might be of interest to some on this list. I haven't actually downloaded this yet, so I don't know if it is even worth the effort, but I thought it was pretty funny so I'm sharing... bee well... --glen o / cut along this line --X----------------------------------------------------------- o \ ------- Start of forwarded message ------- From: James Hague Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.games.announce Subject: UPDATE: Bumbler Demo 1.0.1 (plus a few other things) Followup-To: comp.sys.mac.games.action Date: 7 Jan 1997 15:01:59 GMT Organization: Dadgum Games Message-ID: <5atoh7$e66@usenet.srv.cis.pitt.edu> The Bumbler demo has been stepped to version 1.0.1. The new version fixes a rare bug on that occurred on some machines, causing a crash when you quit. Additionally: 1. Bumbler can now be ordered on-line via credit card (many people outside the U.S. have asked for this). 2. The Dadgum Games web page has been completely revamped and contains lots more information. Bumbler is a new action game for the Power Macintosh that has received a four-mouse review from MacUser. Protect your beehive from attacking bees, hornets, spiders, armored beetles, and other realistically crawling and flying insects. Fortunately, you can fire six stingers at a time... Bumbler is fast, small, and original. Even with 75 insects swarming about your hive, Bumbler still runs at sixty frames per second on low-end Power Macs. The demo checks in at under 550K for the HQX file, yet it is fully playable and chock full of graphics and sound; it looks like it should be five or six times larger than it is. And it is only available for the Power Mac. The Bumbler demo can be grabbed from http://www.dadgum.com -- James Hague Dadgum Games (http://www.dadgum.com) jhague@dadgum.com -- This newsgroup is for announcements of interest to the Macintosh Games community. Please send your submissions to -> csmga@csus.edu Christina Schulman, co-moderator of comp.sys.mac.games.announce ------- End of forwarded message ------- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 Jan 1997 11:35:24 -0800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Dan Mihalyfi Organization: sccoe Subject: Re: Making Splits Comments: cc: "Alden P. Marshall" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > >Here in California my bees are bringing in a lot of pollen and nectar. > . I've had no losses > >to mites in 4 years. I use only apistan in march, july, and november > >for 4 to 6 weeks. > >Harry Sweet in the flood zone. > Harry, > Apistan Strips 3 times a year is a little scarey. Bees do move > honey around from one location of the hive to another [brood chamber to > honey super]. I have had no losses to mites for past 2 years using > apistan strips, 1 application a year. Perhaps you could eliminate 1 or 2 > of your treatments? > Good luck, > > Alden Marshall > B-Line Apiaries > Hudson, NH Once a year Apistan treatment may work in snow country, but here honey bees fly year round; on days when it is not pouring down rain. Dan Mihalyfi Mihalyfi Apiaries Watsonville, CA Central Coast of California ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 Jan 1997 14:48:50 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "(Thomas) (Cornick)" Subject: Splits When making splits are the queen cells produced by colonies preparing to swarm ok to shift into the nucs. Or is it better to use the cells produced by bees from eggs and brood placed in a queenless nuc a few weeks ahead of splitting. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 9 Jan 1997 13:09:49 +1300 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Mark Horsnell Subject: cut comb honey prices Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" can anybody please give me an indication of cut comb honey prices.... ex-factory, west coast usa. thanx in advance, mark Auckland, New Zealand Ph/fax: 64-9-846-5644 Mobile: 64-21-656-447 Email: m12345@ihug.co.nz ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 Jan 1997 20:16:36 -0900 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Sally Fries Subject: DR.RODRIGUEZ Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I have a folder in which I collect just the doctors postings.It is the only one with a persons name on it,you see I value it. All things take time and all things come to him who waits,a form of perserverence.It is difficult for me to believe that a person would make a claim such as the doctors unless he believed what he is saying is accurate. I hope, "pray", that he will share his work when the time is right. I hope that we do not cause him to leave us out of his findings.What ever the findings it can only help even if it is wrong. We will learn much. As for me Doctor Rodriguez I will continue to collect your postings,you are obviously a very knowlegable beekeeper. Thank you . Jerry Fries ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 Jan 1997 20:34:48 -0900 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Sally Fries Subject: SPLITS Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Of course you can do what you want with the list but.....I have an observation. Out of 600 readers only a very small hand full are yelling about splitting the list,you'll never please everyone no matter what you do.If they want a private list no problem they can make themselves one. The complaintsare generally as follows,Too wordy,poor netiquette,not on the subjet bee biology, newbys hogging the space. Look at those who post the most. That will tell youi a lot. Jerry Fries ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 9 Jan 1997 01:42:25 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ted Fischer Subject: Re: Splits MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit (Thomas) (Cornick) wrote: > > When making splits are the queen cells produced by colonies preparing to > swarm ok to shift into the nucs. > Or is it better to use the cells produced by bees from eggs and brood placed > in a queenless nuc a few weeks ahead of splitting. Just a personal observation about your first question: Last year I noticed, in midsummer, that a package colony had gotten very large and seemed to be in pre-swarm activity. I opened it and found many ripe queen cells, some damaged queen cells and about 4 virgin queens. I immediately divided the entire colony into 3-frame nucs, giving a good queen cell or a virgin queen to each. I ended up with 6 good laying queens in all 6 nucs (never did find out what happened to the original queen). I used two to requeen, and the rest all grew into nice two chambered colonies, packed with honey, by September. On your second question: In my opinion, by putting frames of eggs and young brood into a nuc, you will be trying to get too much production from too few bees. I don't think that a nuc will be able to raise a good queen from scratch. If you get anything at all, she will likely be a runt. Ted Fischer Dexter, Michigan USA ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 9 Jan 1997 08:53:45 +0000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Alyn W. Ashworth" Subject: Re: foundation in brood nest Comments: To: beeworks@muskoka.net In-Reply-To: <199701081810.NAA26392@segwun.muskoka.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 In message <199701081810.NAA26392@segwun.muskoka.net>, David Eyre writes >On 7 Jan 97 at 9:53, RICHARD BARNES wrote: Re: foundation in brood nest >> I believe that last year their was a thread about using foundation in the >> brood box to control mites by taking out this extra drone comb. > >This idea is used quite extensively in Europe. One frame of drone >foundation is added to the center of the brood nest at a time of year when >the hive is producing drones. An additional technique is to trap the Q on a frame of drone comb, caged in with excluder-type walls, so that she only lays drone. When the comb is full (sealed?), transfer the Q to another similar frame trap, destroy the first and repeat. I think that the idea is to make sure that the only available cells for the varroa are those within the special frames, so that a large proportion are destroyed. We don't (yet, quite) have the dreaded mite here in Liverpool, but perhaps someone with practical experience could enlarge on this treatment and it's pros & cons - looks attractive, but may be a lot of work for anyone with more than a couple of hives. -- Alyn W. Ashworth Lancashire & North-West Bee-Keepers' Association. UK. (but I don't speak on their bee-half) ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 9 Jan 1997 05:18:40 +0000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Dennis A. Meeks" Subject: Varroa and Chalkbrood I read with interest the writings of Adrian Wenner and his findings of collapse of colonies due to Varroa due to heavy infestations of Chalkbrood. The thought occurred to me that I have seen heavy infestations of Varroa on my bees with six or more mites on each bee in the later stages of infestation. Is there the possibility that the adult mite makes it impossible for the bees to enter the cells due to increased mass and therefore restricts normal cleaning behavior resulting in Chalkbrood. Lets face it, if I suddenly found myself humpbacked, I might not fit into a body sized cavity either. Dennis A. Meeks Northeastern Indiana beekeeper and postal worker dameeks@noblecan.org ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 9 Jan 1997 05:59:28 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: James Morton <106074.517@compuserve.com> Subject: Re: comb-trapping (was: foundation in brood nest) Alyn W. Ashworth wrote: An additional technique is to trap the Q on a frame of drone comb, caged in with excluder-type walls, so that she only lays drone. When the comb is full (sealed?), transfer the Q to another similar frame trap, destroy the first and repeat. I think that the idea is to make sure that the only available cells for the varroa are those within the special frames, so that a large proportion are destroyed. We don't (yet, quite) have the dreaded mite here in Liverpool, but perhaps someone with practical experience could enlarge on this treatment and it's pros & cons - looks attractive, but may be a lot of work for anyone with more than a couple of hives. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------- Methods of 'comb trapping' varroa mites have been used quite widely in Europe, and properly carried out can remove up to 90% of mites from a colony. It is not necessary to use drone comb in the comb-cage, and if you do you tend to find the queen does not lay properly. Worker comb is much better; the important thing is that the only young brood available to mites wishing to reproducein in the trap combs during the month or so the method is in use. The other important point concerns timing. Since the colony will not be producing new bees for a month, if practised too early it will harm colony build-up for the honey flow, and if practiced too late, it will harm colony preparations for winter. Here in Europe, there is a suitable window between the point at which further eggs laid will not contribute foragers in time for the main flow (around the start of June) and the point when colonies start cutting back for winter (around the beginning of August). Comb trapping methods are very labour intensive and probably not really suitable for the large scale beekeepers. Despite this, they have their place reducing the use of chemical treatments as part of an integrated varroa control programme. James Morton CSL Regional Bee Inspector (S.E England) ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 9 Jan 1997 12:52:42 +0100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "THONE HUGO VE144 (240)9452" Subject: orthene MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT hi, Is there anybody out their who knows about ORTHENE (trade mark for acefate (or acetate ?) ? I 've read an article about injecting this chemical into the trunk of trees that produce at lot of honey dew (like lime tree). Unfortunately it does not only kill the lice, but also the bees and bumblebees that gather the honey dew. TIA Hugo +++++ Hugo Thone (SE144) (\ {|||8- ALCATEL TELECOM (/ F.Wellesplein 1 B-2018 Antwerp do bee do bee do .... email : thoneh@btmaa.bel.alcatel.be phone : (32) 3 240 94 52 fax : (32) 3 240 99 50 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 9 Jan 1997 13:23:10 +0000 Reply-To: Janko.Bozic@uni-lj.si Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Janko Bozic Subject: Re: Varroa and Chalkbrood MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT It looks like that Varroa presence is somehow related with Chalkbrood development. Hear in Slovenia, and I know the same happened also in our neighbourhood, we didn't have enlarged problems with chalkbrood few years after varroa came in our region. Then we had several years with highly infestation with chalkbrood. Last few years there are not some much problems with chalkbrood. As I can remember that happened when we started using fluvalinate strips. I was asking myself if that could be related with presence of fluvalinate 3 weeks along in the hive. I've never went in controlled observations of bee behavior, but that might be interesting. I observed that application of essential oils and also fluvalinate into the hive cause induction of selfgrooming and also allogrooming behavior in bees. As you can imagine, bee can not be involved in grooming behaviour at the same time as it inspect brood. With the other words, unusual increase of frequency of behaviors related with grooming most likely decrease frequency of comb inspection and cleaning. For this two behaviors are different motivations and they exclude each other. It would be nice that someone would test this hypothesis experimentally. By the way, in the first years of varroa infestation we used fumigation. This was one day treatments and perhaps this could be the reason we didn't have problems with chalkbrood. With regards, Janko ==================================================================== Dr. Janko Bozic University of Ljubljana Biotechnical Faculty, Department of Biology Vecna pot 111, p.p. 2995 1001 Ljubljana SLOVENIA tel. (386) 61-265-584, (386) 61-265-585 fax. (386) 61-273-390 e-mail: janko.bozic@uni-lj.si ==================================================================== SLOVENIA - Homeland of Carniolan Bee ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 Jan 1997 22:48:53 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Garrett Dodds Subject: Vorroa Screens Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hello Everyone, I'm thinking about making some vorroa screen traps to sample my hives for vorroa mites. I want to check the natural mite fall for population build up and mite chewing behavior. Dose any one have any ideas on how the should be made, measurements and helpful hints from expierance? Or maybe an idea or two about them. Thanks. Garrett Dodds 29480 January Road West Mansfield, OH 43358 (937) 355-0290 dodds.12@ous.edu ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 Jan 1997 22:49:05 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Garrett Dodds Subject: Pierco Plastic Frames and Foundation Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hi, I was wondering if anyone has used the Pierco Plastic Frames and Foundation? What are their pros and cons? How are they compared to wooden frames? Garrett Dodds 29480 January Road West Mansfield, OH 43358 (937) 355-0290 dodds.12@osu.edu ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 9 Jan 1997 01:18:48 -0500 Reply-To: dronebee@norfolk.infi.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Dr. Pedro Rodriguez" Organization: InfiNet Subject: Re: DR.RODRIGUEZ MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit bee-l@cnsibm.albany.edu wrote: > >I have a folder in which I collect just the doctors postings. snip I hope, "pray",> that he will share his work when the time is right. snip > Thank you . Jerry Fries Dear Jerry: Thank you for your very much appreciated support. I have given thought to quitting everything and continue to enjoy my retirement and the love of my life: working with honey bees. On second thought, I have dedicated the last 13 years of my life and a lot of money to find ways to deal with the devatating honey bee mites. My work has paid off. I just finished inspecting (thouroughly) nine hives at one yard and found no mites! That is encouraging when in the Spring I had Varroa mites crawling all over the bees to the point that one could physically see them. Now, my recent findings have given me reason to be very happy with my work. I think that I have finally defeated the "little red devils" as I call the Varroa mites in familiar terms. I will give a presentation of my work on Wednesday, January 15th (my 68th birthday, incidentally) at the 54th Annual Convention of the AFB in Norfolk, VA. After that date, the whole world will be able to try out the method that I have employed to rid my colonies of mites. If it has worked for me, I know it will work for anyone who tries it. It is that simple. Not a panacea, just a well thought and consistently carried out procedure. Hang in there, friend, soon everybody will know. And contrary to some beliefs, the world will know that I am not bragging. I am merely full of joy knowing that my hard work will in the end be useful to each and every beekeeper in the control of honey bee mites. Many Regards. Dr. Pedro Rodriguez Virginia Beach, Virginia USA ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 9 Jan 1997 10:13:46 -0500 Reply-To: dronebee@norfolk.infi.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Dr. Pedro Rodriguez" Organization: InfiNet Subject: Re: Varroa and Chalkbrood MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit bee-l@cnsibm.albany.edu wrote: > > I read with interest the writings of Adrian Wenner and his findings > of collapse of colonies due to Varroa due to heavy infestations of > Chalkbrood. > snip > Dennis A. Meeks > Northeastern Indiana beekeeper and postal worker > dameeks@noblecan.org Dear Dennis: As I have stated in other posts, I have dedicated the last 13 years to work related to the control (erradication, hopefully) of Varroa mites. During those years, I have observed that heavy infestations of colonies by mites result in several unwanted conditions within the population of the colony: smaller bees, wing defects, increased death rate of brood, development of such illnesses as chalkbrood, decreased hygenic practice, diminished foraging, decreased vital activities (bees look like sick, old people, pardon the comparison!). Why?, I have asked myself repeatedly. My overall judgement is that the mites sap the strength of the bees to the point that they can't cope with their duties. Reminds me of my childhood days when I saw a lot of people with malaria and other debilitating parasites. Similarly, the bees become weakened and lose their ability to perform. On the contrary, in colonies with normal healthy honey bees, debris and other conditions leading to instability and developing of illnesses are removed, hence reducing the factors conducive to development of diseases. I hope that I have explained my views in terms understood by all recipients without the need to list minute details. Many regards. Dr. Pedro Rodriguez Virginia Beach, Virginia (USA) ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 9 Jan 1997 10:50:15 -0500 Reply-To: dronebee@norfolk.infi.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Dr. Pedro Rodriguez" Organization: InfiNet Subject: Re: comb-trapping (was: foundation in brood nest) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit bee-l@cnsibm.albany.edu wrote: > > Alyn W. Ashworth wrote: > > An additional technique is to trap the Q on a frame of drone comb, caged > in with excluder-type walls, so that she only lays drone. When the comb > is full (sealed?), transfer the Q to another similar frame trap, destroy > the first and repeat. I think that the idea is to make sure that the > only available cells for the varroa are those within the special frames, > so that a large proportion are destroyed. > > We don't (yet, quite) have the dreaded mite here in Liverpool, but > perhaps someone with practical experience could enlarge on this > treatment and it's pros & cons - looks attractive, but may be a lot of > work for anyone with more than a couple of hives. > > --------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ---------- > Methods of 'comb trapping' varroa mites have been used quite widely in Europe, and properly carried out can remove up to 90% of mites from a > colony. It is not necessary to use drone comb in the comb-cage, and if you do you tend to find the queen does not lay properly. Worker comb is much better; the important thing is that the only young brood available to mites wishing to reproducein in th > James Morton > CSL Regional Bee Inspector (S.E England) Dear Mr. Morton et al: It is amazing to see to what extents humanity will go when attempting to control the maladies that affect us, especially when these are influenced by nature. And as usual, when tampering with nature, humanity ends up at the losing end! In my experience, attempting to control mites in a fashion as explained above is not a control method, but in fact a propagation method since it gives the mites every opportunity to gain control of that colony where they are given a "free pass" to breed. It is very important to realize that the two most important life-giving mechanisms of the colony are taken away: the egg-laying queen and the feeding mechanism of newly born worker bees! Any beekeeper with a minor knowledge of beekeeping has to know that he/she wants those two factors to be optimum in the colonies. Besides when there are no newborn to maintain the natural ongoing processes of the hive, everything comes to a largely diminished rate! Add to that the fact that mites escape the cells where they are bred before the host bee emerges. Result: a mite breeding program. In all sincerity, I hope that any concientious beekeeper engaged in the practice mentioned above, will discontinue it. To quote an old proverb: "two wrongs do not make a right." Varroa mites are bad critters. To give them the opportunity to propagate is bad! Two bad factors that will contribute to major setbacks for those who practice this activity and to beekeeping in general. PLEASE DON'T. Many Regards. Dr. Pedro Rodriguez Virginia Beach, Virginia (USA) ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 9 Jan 1997 17:26:14 +0000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Dave Black Subject: Re: comb-trapping (was: foundation in brood nest) Comments: To: dronebee@norfolk.infi.net In-Reply-To: <32D513B7.5EE@norfolk.infi.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 In message <32D513B7.5EE@norfolk.infi.net>, "Dr. Pedro Rodriguez" writes >In my experience, attempting to control mites in a fashion as explained >above is not a control method, but in fact a propagation method since it >gives the mites every opportunity to gain control of that colony where >they are given a "free pass" to breed. > when there are no newborn to >maintain the natural ongoing processes of the hive, everything comes to >a largely diminished rate! Add to that the fact that mites escape the >cells where they are bred before the host bee emerges. Result: a mite >breeding program. Lets be clear that this method is a *trap* method. You trap the mites and remove them. It is *not* a mite breeding programm unless you get it wrong. Secondly, you have choice about whether to treat the brood and put it back (using Formic acid say) or discard it as an unecessary surplus population. It depends on your choice and when the flows are there to be capitalised on. You do not prejudice the population on young bees at all if you are wise. > PLEASE DON'T. Au contrare. Please do, but recognise that it is not a simple method and that its takes skill and time to get it right. Skill and timing that we do not all always have and that it why there may be more appropriate, but not better, methods. -- Dave Black Blacks Bee Gardens, Guildford, GU1 4RN. UK. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 9 Jan 1997 13:10:02 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: James Morton <106074.517@compuserve.com> Subject: Re: comb-trapping bee-l@cnsibm.albany.edu wrote: > > Alyn W. Ashworth wrote: > > An additional technique is to trap the Q on a frame of drone comb, caged > in with excluder-type walls, so that she only lays drone. When the comb > is full (sealed?), transfer the Q to another similar frame trap, destroy > the first and repeat. I think that the idea is to make sure that the > only available cells for the varroa are those within the special frames, > so that a large proportion are destroyed. > > We don't (yet, quite) have the dreaded mite here in Liverpool, but > perhaps someone with practical experience could enlarge on this > treatment and it's pros & cons - looks attractive, but may be a lot of > work for anyone with more than a couple of hives. > > --------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ---------- > Methods of 'comb trapping' varroa mites have been used quite widely in Europe, and properly carried out can remove up to 90% of mites from a colony. It is not necessary to use drone comb in the comb-cage, and if you do you tend to find the queen does not lay properly. Worker comb is much better; the important thing is that the only young brood available to mites wishing to reproducein in the! trap combs during the month or so the method is in use. snip > James Morton > CSL Regional Bee Inspector (S.E England) Dear Mr. Morton et al: It is amazing to see to what extents humanity will go when attempting to control the maladies that affect us, especially when these are influenced by nature. And as usual, when tampering with nature, humanity ends up at the losing end! In my experience, attempting to control mites in a fashion as explained above is not a control method, but in fact a propagation method since it gives the mites every opportunity to gain control of that colony where they are given a "free pass" to breed. It is very important to realize that the two most important life-giving mechanisms of the colony are taken away: the egg-laying queen and the feeding mechanism of newly born worker bees! Any beekeeper with a minor knowledge of beekeeping has to know that he/she wants those two factors to be optimum in the colonies. Besides when there are no newborn to maintain the natural ongoing processes of the hive, everything comes to a largely diminished rate! Add to that the fact that mites escape the cells where they are bred before the host bee emerges. Result: a mite breeding program. In all sincerity, I hope that any concientious beekeeper engaged in the practice mentioned above, will discontinue it. To quote an old proverb: "two wrongs do not make a right." Varroa mites are bad critters. To give them the opportunity to propagate is bad! Two bad factors that will contribute to major setbacks for those who practice this activity and to beekeeping in general. PLEASE DON'T. Many Regards. Dr. Pedro Rodriguez Virginia Beach, Virginia (USA) --------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----------- I am unclear where you feel the mites are reproducing during the period of comb trapping since there is no brood produced in the colony other than that within the three combs on which the queen has been caged. Since none of this is allowed to emerge (it is removed and destroyed after it is sealed) there is no way mites within can emerge. Therefore all mites entering brood cells to reproduce during comb trapping are removed from the colony, causing the mite population to decrease. Neither the egg laying queen nor the feeding mechanism of young bees are taken away as you suggest. The queen remains laying throughout and bees continue to care for her brood. At the end of comb trapping, there are still plenty of bees less than a fortnight old, perfectly capable of feeding brood. Although a month in which no eggs are laid that will contribute to the colony may seem detrimental, if the comb trapping is timed sensibly, these would have been workers born to late to forage in the main flow, and too early to be able to go into winter as young bees . Their absense is not terribly significant as colonies are naturally decreasing in size after the end of the main flow anyway. In practice queens quickly resume egg laying after comb trapping, but some beekeepers use the opportunity to replace her with a young one. Although this method does have its drawbacks, it is important to be realistic about where these lie. James Morton ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 9 Jan 1997 17:46:46 +0000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Dave Black Subject: Re: Varroa and Chalkbrood In-Reply-To: <199701091023.FAA19115@noblecan.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 In message <199701091023.FAA19115@noblecan.org>, "Dennis A. Meeks" writes >I read with interest the writings of Adrian Wenner and his findings >of collapse of colonies due to Varroa due to heavy infestations of >Chalkbrood. > Is there the possibility that the adult mite >makes it impossible for the bees to enter the cells due to increased >mass and therefore restricts normal cleaning behavior resulting in >Chalkbrood. My opinion is that this is unlikely. The Mites you see are very mobile and would probably move. The only ones 'attached' so to speak are the ones actually feeding and inserted between the abdomen's plates. Might (no pun ) be uncomfortable but would'nt increase size much. I think the thought by Janko Bozic is a better theory, that the increased personal grooming reduces cell cleaning. That could be tested so you need'nt rely on opinion :-). Dr Rodriguez suggests that with heavy infestations the mite may weaken the bee, or at least demoralise it and I agree this could be so but it has not yet been shown. I don't think much work has been done on this but the little done at Rothamstead (UK) indicated that quite a number of mites would not affect the bee's development (and by implication) its ability to perform. We also see that these secondary problems can arise before there is a large infestation and so before the bees would be weakened. I think the crucial aspect is the access the mite grants to other viral, bacterial or fungal agents. -- Dave Black Blacks Bee Gardens, Guildford, GU1 4RN. UK. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 9 Jan 1997 16:08:53 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Harry Sweet Subject: Re: Making Splits In a message dated 97-01-08 14:36:33 EST, you write: << Harry, > Apistan Strips 3 times a year is a little scarey. Bees do move > honey around from one location of the hive to another [brood chamber to > honey super]. I have had no losses to mites for past 2 years using > apistan strips, 1 application a year. Perhaps you could eliminate 1 or 2 > of your treatments? > Good luck, > > Alden Marshall > B-Line Apiaries > Hudson, NH We have a year round honey flow (just a lot slower in the winter) I do remove supers and treat half my yard at a time. I would rather not treat in july, But I have years ago, and other beekeepers do now, lose bees in july-august if they don't treat (strip). I have not lost bees to mites in 4 years. Varroa is bad here, tracheals have not been a problem for me. Harry Sweet N. California ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 9 Jan 1997 16:11:47 -0500 Reply-To: beeworks@muskoka.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: David Eyre Organization: beeworks Subject: Re: comb-trapping MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT On 9 Jan 97 at 5:59, James Morton wrote: Re: comb-trapping > Europe, and properly carried out can remove up to 90% of mites from a > colony. It is not necessary to use drone comb in the comb-cage, and if you > do you tend to find the queen does not lay properly. Worker comb is much > better; the important thing is that the only young brood available to mites > wishing to reproducein in the trap combs during the month or so the method > is in use. Surely not! The whole premise for adding drone brood foundation, and using that, is because Varroa prefer drone cells. Therefore the mature Varroa will be drawn to the open drone cells, when sealed, they are removed from the hive. Perhaps someone could explain how we are breeding for mites when they are not allowed to mature to adulthood. On my original post I asked for someone to calculate (who knows the Varroa breeding cycle) the space between the two cycles of adding two frames at intervals to hit breeding maturity. Further on this thread. Dr. Pedro Rodriguez wrote. > In my experience, attempting to control mites in a >fashion as explained above is not a control method, but in fact a >propagation method since it gives the mites every opportunity to gain >control of that colony where they are given a "free pass" to breed. >snip< >largely diminished rate! Add to that the fact that mites escape the cells >where they are bred before the host bee emerges. Result: a mite breeding >program. In all sincerity, I hope that any concientious beekeeper engaged >in the practice mentioned above, will discontinue it. To quote an old >proverb: "two wrongs do not make a right." Varroa mites are bad critters. >To give them the opportunity to propagate is bad! If I may be so bold. This method is not a breeding program. The idea is to attract *already mature* adults which are ready to breed. I reiterate, when the cell is sealed it is removed from the hive. Surely the breeding cycle is, mature adults move into breeding cells, immature Varroa are *released* from the cell when the host emerges, they then attach themselves to a bee, and move from bee to bee until they mature. At which time the cycle repeats. This is a discussion group! Comments! ********************************************************* The Bee Works, 9 Progress Drive Unit 2, Orillia, Ontario, Canada. L3V 6H1 David Eyre, Owner. Phone/Fax 705 326 7171 Agents for E.H.Thorne & B.J.Sherriff UK http://www.muskoka.net/~beeworks ********************************************************* ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 9 Jan 1997 16:42:49 +22324924 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Adam Finkelstein Subject: Re: The FAQ's & form of Bee-L In-Reply-To: from "Carl H. Powell" at Jan 7, 97 00:02:50 am Content-Type: text Carl H. Powell, (you), wrote: > > Frequently Asked Questions for the newsgroup and also a statement as to the > groups purpose. Once compiled one 'regular' was charged with maintaining the > 'FAQ & Form' which was posted every 2 weeks to the list for all to read. Also > the 'keeper' would e-mail a brief welcome and a copy to any new poster upon > noting their first post. This might work here also. I haven't been here long > so I will leave the 'acclamation of the new Keeper' to others if this becomes > the consensus. Hello Carl, yeah this is what is supposed to happen, except it takes time, effort and care--all of which are in short demand with everyone's schedule. I'll have the 2nd sci.agriculture.beekeeping faq out soon-- which will point to areas on the net where beekeeping info may be obtained. Beekeeping is too involved, too ecologically variable and too filled with variety to make official FAQs. I suggested a long time time ago, yes even longer than Allen Dick's time, (smile) that certain people keep little mini-faqs and as they update them, I could archive them at the Sunsite beekeeping archive-> http://sunsite.unc.edu/bees/home.html where I have LOTS of disk space and a really fine machine--then anyone who needed to ask a FAQ could be advised to go there and look it up. Lots of the internet does this and it's an effective way to disseminate knowledge. For the record, if you want to check out sci.agriculture.beekeeping or any newsgroup for that matter a service like dejanews--> http://dejanews.com archives all articles and allows you to post too. Adam -- _________________ Adam Finkelstein adamf@vtaix.cc.vt.edu http://sunsite.unc.edu/bees/adamf/home.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 9 Jan 1997 18:56:04 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Mike Worrell Subject: Re: Making Splits I have to agree with Dan about the number of yearly Apistan treatments but not for the same climate reasons as his. I keep my bees in Northern Maryland, treat at end of February, mid to end of July after supers come off and in the first week of October. Maryland beekeepers lost up to 70% of their bees last year while I was fortunate to have not lost any out of 10 hives and was ables to get 9 Nucs with 4 frames of brood per Nuc. Even in the little state of Maryland we have up to a two week difference when the honey flow hits from down south to where I live on the Pennnsylvania border. I don't know if it was the fact of the 3 applications or the timing of the applications. I also treat with grease patties at the same time with the February and October patties containing TM. Mike ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 9 Jan 1997 23:35:00 GMT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Andy Nachbaur Organization: WILD BEE'S BBS (209) 826-8107 LOS BANOS, CA Subject: California Flood Damage ---------------------------------------- _ _ _______ ______ _____ _ _ _ | \ | | ____\ \ / / ___| | ___| | __ _ ___| |__ | | | \| | _| \ \ /\ / /\___ \ | |_ | |/ _` / __| '_ \ | | | |\ | |___ \ V V / ___) | | _| | | (_| \__ \ | | | |_| |_| \_|_____| \_/\_/ |____/ |_| |_|\__,_|___/_| |_| (_) Wed January 8, 1997 Loss reports from beekeepers suggest as many as 40,000 hives of bees in the Sacramento Valley were swept away by recent floods. In the Central California, Modesto area, as may as 11,000 hives are known to have been lost. In the Merced area three beekeepers are said to have lost 6,000 hives. Along with the loss of bees many almond orchards have been damaged and will need several weeks with no rain before all the water drains off the land and assessments can be made as to their condition. The trees were mostly dormant with bloom expected in a few weeks. Local flooding continues in the Sacramento delta area due to continue high river flows and 100 year old levies. ttul Andy- As reports are received I will update. 010797.2 (c) Permission is granted to freely copy this document in any form, or to print for any use. (w)Opinions are not necessarily facts. Use at own risk. --- ~ QMPro 1.53 ~ "Where there are fruits & nuts, there are beekeepers" ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 9 Jan 1997 17:22:56 -0800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Alida Francisco Janmaat Subject: Varroa and Chalkbrood In-Reply-To: from "Adrian Wenner" at Jan 8, 97 09:42:07 am MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi There, I'm currently studying the effects of Varroa mites on how a honey bee colony functions for my Master's thesis at Simon Fraser University. I've sorted through the various literature on honey bee pathogens to come up with some idea of how honey bee colonies respond to parasitism. Chalkbrood appears to primarily infect brood that has become chilled shortly after capping. Not to long ago, there was a short article on this topic in one of the beekeeping magazines (I'm afraid I don't know which one, Sorry! If anyone wants a reference, I'll look through my files) I've noticed this in my own work, in which I have taken recently capped brood frames out of the colony to infest individual larvae with varroa mites, only to find that several weeks later my work is lost to chalkbrood. I removed some 'control' frames that I did not inoculate with Varroa, to see if there were similar losses to chalkbrood. Chalkbrood was a problem on these frames as well. Chalkbrood appears to be a problem when there are not enough adult bees in a colony to maintain the appropriate temperature in the brood nest. If adult populations in colonies are beginning to decrease, yet brood production has not decreased, the brood may become chilled and chalkbrood will result. I spoke to a beekeeper from Alberta who would supplement his colonies with pollen, only to find that chalkbrood became a problem. I suspect that the colonies responded to the addition of pollen by increasing brood production above that which the adult bees could keep warm. It's possible that spores were present in the pollen, but I think that spores are present in the colony at all times, and chalkbrood only becomes a problem when the colony is compromised in some way. That's my two bits worth. I look forward to reading your replies! Alida Janmaat -------------------------- Centre for Pest Management Simon Fraser University Burnaby, Canada email: janmaat@sfu.ca -------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 9 Jan 1997 20:17:41 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Gerry Visel Subject: Re: The FAQ's & form of Bee-L Hear! Hear! I think this is a great idea! I'll gladly contribute the nettiquette article again, if desired. Gerry Visel Visel7@juno.com On Tue, 7 Jan 1997 00:02:50 -0500 "Carl H. Powell" writes: > For both the above problem with 'newbies' and people who may just be >new to this list and/or computing I think I have a suggestion. What happened >on another internet newsgroup in the alt.* class was certain of the 'oldtimers' >who posted regularly were asked to put together the top 25 most >Frequently Asked Questions for the newsgroup and also a statement as to the >groups purpose. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 9 Jan 1997 20:45:24 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Albert W Needham Subject: Lost Address Pardon me fellow BEE-Lers. Steven Creasy-lost your download address-please resend. Thanks, Al Needham, ........................................................................................................ Al Needham - Scituate,MA,USA - awneedham@juno.com Creator of "The HoneyBee" An Educational Program About Honey Bees. All New 1997 Version 2.0 With A Superb Slide Show Of Bees In Action! Go To The Web And Download It From>Http://www.kuai.se/~beeman< Click The Blue Button! ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 9 Jan 1997 22:18:13 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Robert Watson Subject: poisonous honey? In-Reply-To: <19970108.204656.3222.0.awneedham@juno.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Hello List: I am a "new" beekeeper with, at present, one colony. That colony was moved from its out-in-the-country location to my suburban back yard in the Autumn. I am curious about poisonous honey because the topic is brought up in some of the beekeeping books that I have read, but my question is not answered there. I have a rather large Wisteria sinensis arbour right behind my house...the hive is at present underneath the arbour. The wisteria blooms profusely and beautifully in late May...the carpenter bees seem to like it. I wonder if the honey would be poisonous to humans? Does anyone know? The horticultural books that I have, state that ALL PARTS....are poisonous. Could that include nectar? I have read that Rododendron sp. honey is poisonous. But I can find nothing about Wisteria. I want to leave my bees in my garden till June, and then move them to the country, but if its "dangerous", I guess I have to get them out of there a lot earlier. Any knowledgeable comments would be much appreciated. Thanks, Robert Robert C.L. Watson rwatson1@freenet.npiec.on.ca pipe organ technician organist - choirmaster early woodwind player hobby beekeeper homebrewer tenor piper ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 9 Jan 1997 23:42:31 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Albert W Needham Subject: Re: California Flood Damage Andy Nachbaur wrote: >Loss reports from beekeepers suggest as many as 40,000 hives of bees All these losses are going to put a terrible strain on the Package Bee Folks. Hobbyists are already at the end of the line (not complaining as it is not our living)! So...my personal advice to hobbyists would be to do as I do when I need a package or two...find a commercial type and try to tag onto his/her order if possible. My opinion. ........................................................................................................ Al Needham - Scituate,MA,USA - awneedham@juno.com Creator of "The HoneyBee" An Educational Program About Honey Bees. All New 1997 Version 2.0 With A Superb Slide Show Of Bees In Action! Go To The Web And Download It From>Http://www.kuai.se/~beeman< Click The Blue Button! ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 01:08:23 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Stan Sandler Subject: Re: Varroa and Chalkbrood Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hi Alida and All: >Chalkbrood >appears to primarily infect brood that has become chilled shortly after >capping. Not to long ago, there was a short article on this topic in one >of the beekeeping magazines (I'm afraid I don't know which one, Sorry! If >anyone wants a reference, I'll look through my files) Please post it to the list and I hope it initiates discussion. It's possible >that spores were present in the pollen, but I think that spores are >present in the colony at all times, and chalkbrood only becomes a problem >when the colony is compromised in some way. > >That's my two bits worth. I look forward to reading your replies! That was a most fascinating posting Alida. I got a compilation a few months ago from Aaron Morris (our Sysam) of all the postings to the bee-l on chalkbrood. By the way that is a great project (to compile postings by subject) and you should report Aaron on which subjects are now ready, and which you need volunteers to work on. The majority of the postings on chalkbrood seemed to indicate that it was a combination of two housekeeping behaviours (the ability to remove mummies, and the ability to recognize early and uncap infected larvae) that was important in resistance to the fungus (reducing spore load by getting rid of the mummies before they turned black and "highly spore loaded). Most people also seemed to agree that chalkbrood responds fairly quickly to selection for bees which have these behaviours. Since I have a bad problem with chalkbrood (in the spring) I requeened many of my colonies still showing a few mummies late in the summer. They were moderate sized and I split them into nucs. I used queen cells from chalkbrood free colonies and from a neighbour beekeeper who has a lower incidence. I knew that chilling was a factor in chalkbrood, but I was still surprised at how much it increased in the nucs. I think they almost all showed some, and it was severe in several. I find that drone cells are more likely to be infected than worker cells, and it has been suggested that this is because of chilling, i.e. the drone cells are more likely to be on the edge of the brood pattern. But I even find that drone cells are infected right in the middle of the cluster. For example in hives with a very low level of infestation I can still find mummies in the drone cells that are sometimes built between the boxes or on the bottoms of frames wherever my imperfect carpentry has allowed. I wonder if there might be any other reason besides chilling for this. Regards, Stan in Prince Edward Island, still mite free we hope (45 N) ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 00:11:00 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ted Fischer Subject: Re: comb-trapping MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit David Eyre wrote: > > If I may be so bold. This method is not a breeding program. The idea is to > attract *already mature* adults which are ready to breed. I reiterate, > when the cell is sealed it is removed from the hive. > Surely the breeding cycle is, mature adults move into breeding cells, > immature Varroa are *released* from the cell when the host emerges, they > then attach themselves to a bee, and move from bee to bee until they > mature. At which time the cycle repeats. > This is a discussion group! Comments! In my opinion, David is rightly describing the life/breeding cycle of the varroa mite. My understanding is that the mite breeds selectively in drone cells during the summer, then when drone brood tapers off in the fall they jump to worker brood. This weakens the developing winter bees, thereby imperiling the survival of the colony over the winter. I believe, as does David, that the drone trapping method is a valid control for varroa. However, it is extremely labor intensive, and, while probably ideal for the hobbyist with only a few colonies, would be impossible for the large commercial beekeeper and quite difficult for a sideliner such as myself (about 75 colonies). Ted Fischer Dexter, Michigan USA ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 01:29:40 -0600 Reply-To: dvisrael@earthlink.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Donald V Israel Subject: Re: Vorroa Screens MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Garrett Dodds wrote: > > Hello Everyone, > > I'm thinking about making some vorroa screen traps to sample my hives for > vorroa mites. I want to check the natural mite fall for population build I bought one last year from a supplier. It is very inexpensive and makes a good patern. The state bee inspector uses a small mesh screen with holes adout 1/8 square. He folds it in the middle and puts a piece of very stiff paper in it before placing it on the bottom board. Dial 1-8oo-233-7929 if you want to buy one. Catalogue #741 in the USA. Don ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 00:35:51 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ted Fischer Subject: Chalkbrood and pollen MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Alida Francisco Janmaat wrote: > I spoke to a beekeeper from Alberta who would supplement his colonies with > pollen, only to find that chalkbrood became a problem. I suspect that > the colonies responded to the addition of pollen by increasing brood > production above that which the adult bees could keep warm. It's possible > that spores were present in the pollen, but I think that spores are > present in the colony at all times, and chalkbrood only becomes a problem > when the colony is compromised in some way. I used to collect pollen and market it commercially. However, the pollen trays could become heavily contaminated with chalkbrood mummies, which the pollen cleaning machine could not separate from pollen pellets. They were about the same weight, although slightly larger in size. I had to sort through the entire collection of pollen by hand every day, picking out the chalkbrood, and I'm almost certain some was missed despite my best efforts. That's the main reason I gave up on pollen, even though it was much more lucrative than honey. I just didn't have the time and patience for it. I bring this up because I would bet that much of the above problem could be traced to pollen contaminated with chalkbrood mummies, or at least the fungus spores rubbing off of them. Even though I know that pollen is the best food, I only use artificial supplements now because of my fear of contaminated pollen. Ted Fischer Dexter, Michigan USA ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 01:52:03 -0600 Reply-To: dvisrael@earthlink.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Donald V Israel Subject: Re: Varroa and Chalkbrood MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Alida Francisco Janmaat wrote: . > > Chalkbrood appears to be a problem when there are not enough adult bees in > a colony to maintain the appropriate temperature in the brood nest. If > adult populations in colonies are beginning to decrease, yet brood > production has not decreased, the brood may become > chilled and chalkbrood will result. > That's my two bits worth. I look forward to reading your replies! There is a good discussion on chalkbrood in the Jan 97 American Bee Journal on page 52. Don ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 10:06:41 +0000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Seppo Korpela Subject: Re: comb-trapping MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT I forwarded the message of Dr. Pedro Rodriguez on his thoughts of the comb-trapping method to control Varroa to Dr. Ingemar Fries, who has a wide experience on the use of this method. Although there have been already good answers to Dr. Rodrigues, I forward his message to BEE-L readers: ******************************************************** Dear Seppo! Thank you for sharing the discussion on Bee-L on Varroa and trapping comb with me. Well, this Dr Rodriguez does not seem to fully understand the virtues of comb trapping to control Varroa. "It is very important to realize that the two most important life-giving mechanisms of the colony are taken away: the egg-laying queen and the feeding mechanism of newly born worker bees!" says Dr. Rodriguez. Well, I think he should study the matter a bit closer before passing a judgement. Neither of these two statements are true unless you want them to be!! We actually have very good results with some beekeepers now for ten years. Combined with treating the sealed combs outside the colonies with formic acid, which kills the mites in the sealed cells, but not the bees, this method works quite well. Some beekeepers use these trapping combs to produce new nuclei. Just take about 6 sealed and treated combs, add one super of bees (if lots of mites, first one treatment with lactic acid) and a queen cell or laying queen, and you have got a nice colony that do not need treatment for Varroa the same season. Of course the treated combs can also go back into the colony where they were produced if an increase in colony numbers is not wanted. The trapping comb technique originally used one comb for the queen at comb shift, but with the option of reusing the combs after treatment, it is not necessary to limit the queen's egglaying that much. If the egglaying of the queen is restricted, then this method must be employed at the right time in relation to the main honey flow to avoid loss of honey. But when you can reuse the brood in which Varroa is caught, it is possible to use the method whenever you like without loss of honey or bees. Where you have problems of reinvasion of mites into treated colonies, removing of a sealed drone comb in the spring usually is recommended. Naturally this is not a method suited for beekeepers with hundreds of hives, and perhaps it works best in a cold climate, but surely it must be appreciated that Varroa control is possible using mainly management methods. Some of our results using trapping comb and/or treatment of sealed brood have been published in English: Fries, I. & Hansen, H. 1993. Biotechnical control of Varroa mites in cold climates. American Bee Journal 133: 435-438. Fries, I. 1991. Treatment of sealed honey bee brood with formic acid for control of Varroa jacobsoni. American Bee Journal. 131: 313-314. Dr. Ingemar Fries Entomology Department Swedish University of Agricultural Sciences S-750 07 Uppsala Sweden ingemar.fries@entom.slu.se ************************************************************************** Department of Entomology E-mail: Ingemar.Fries@entom.slu.se Swedish Univ. Agric. Sci. Tel: Int+ 46 18 67 20 73 Box 7044 Fax: Int+ 46 18 67 28 90 S-750 07 Uppsala Sweden ************************************************************************** ============================================================================= * Seppo Korpela Agricultural Research Center of Finland * Phone INT + 358 3 4188 576 Institute of Plant Protection * FAX INT + 358 3 4188 584 FIN-31600 Jokioinen * E-mail seppo.korpela@mtt.fi Finland * http://www.agronet.fi/mtt/ksl/kotisi/skorpela.htm ============================================================================= ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 10:13:22 CST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Vladimir Ptacek Subject: Re: Varroa and Chalkbrood My oppinion is that chemical treetment connected with Varroa protective measures weaknes the resistence of colonies at general and this results in increasing appearence of diseases inclusive chalkbrood. Best regards, Vladimir (ptacek@sci.muni.cz) ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 08:56:09 +0000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Alyn W. Ashworth" Subject: Re: comb-trapping (was: foundation in brood nest) Comments: To: dronebee@norfolk.infi.net In-Reply-To: <32D513B7.5EE@norfolk.infi.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 "Dr. Pedro Rodriguez" writes, in reply to postings by myself and James Morton regarding frame traps for varroa control >In my experience, attempting to control mites in a fashion as explained >above is not a control method, but in fact a propagation method since it >gives the mites every opportunity to gain control of that colony where >they are given a "free pass" to breed. I feel impertinent to comment, as I have no experience, but it occurs to me that without some treatment, the mites will breed anyway. So surely any technique, such as this one, that encourages this inevitable breeding to take place in a controlled area from which the resultant un- released mites can later be removed, must be beneficial in itself. Socrates would, I am sure, approve of the logic of this. (.....later in the day, I now see several other much better replies than I can manage, so I'll shut up and just listen!!!!!) -- Alyn W. Ashworth Lancashire & North-West Bee-Keepers' Association. UK. (but I don't speak on their bee-half) ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 03:10:34 -0700 Reply-To: allend@internode.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Allen Dick Organization: The Beekeepers Subject: Re: Chalkbrood and pollen MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT > Alida Francisco Janmaat wrote: > I bring this up because I would bet that much of the above problem > could be traced to pollen contaminated with chalkbrood mummies, or > at least the fungus spores rubbing off of them. Even though I know > that pollen is the best food, I only use artificial supplements now > because of my fear of contaminated pollen. I used "bee feed" grade pollen from northern B.C. one year in supplement. When it arrived, it was powered, rather than little balls, and when I enquired, was told that it was ground up for mixing into patties. Well, I had the worst chalkbrood breakdown ever after that and it took years to clear it up. It is obvious in hindsight that I had bought screenings that were high in chalkbrood mummies and dust from them. Research has shown repeatedly that grinding up mummies and feeding them to bees will result in bad breakdown. Using *selected* bee stock will reduce mummies on the bottom board. I don't know fore sure if it means the bees just haul the larvae our before they get to that state, or if there is real resistance. I suspect the latter, since the chalkbrood free stock usually appears to have pretty solid brood patterns. I'd only use cleaned human grade pollen from now on, and preferably from my own hives. FWIW Regards Allen W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper VE6CFK RR#1, Swalwell, Alberta Canada T0M 1Y0 Internet:dicka@cuug.ab.ca & allend@internode.net Honey. Bees, & Art ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 13:08:16 +0000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Dave Black Subject: Re: comb-trapping In-Reply-To: <32D5C14F.5962@umich.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 In message <32D5C14F.5962@umich.edu>, Ted Fischer writes >I believe, as does David (and me) >that the drone trapping method is a valid >control for varroa. However, it is extremely labor intensive, and, >while probably ideal for the hobbyist with only a few colonies, would be >impossible for the large commercial beekeeper and quite difficult for a >sideliner such as myself (about 75 colonies). Being a Brit I am probably barred from making any comment on commercial beekeeping. I think the extra effort of Drone removal (forget Trap comb) is overplayed. You have to be able to inspect your colonies every five or six days though and that may certainly present a problem. -- Dave Black Blacks Bee Gardens, Guildford, GU1 4RN. UK. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 12:57:35 +0000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Dave Black Subject: Re: comb-trapping Comments: To: beeworks@muskoka.net In-Reply-To: <199701092112.QAA15444@segwun.muskoka.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 In message <199701092112.QAA15444@segwun.muskoka.net>, David Eyre writes Ref. >On 9 Jan 97 at 5:59, James Morton wrote: Re: comb-trapping >It is not necessary to use drone comb in the comb-cage, and if you >> do you tend to find the queen does not lay properly. Worker comb is much >> better; >Surely not! The whole premise for adding drone brood foundation, and using >that, is because Varroa prefer drone cells. Let us not confuse two different techniques. Trap Comb methods do not use drone brood comb. Mites will reproduce in any larvae of the right age, by restricting the queen to one area we control the age of the larvae and so where the reproducing mites will be. Drone removal methods obviously do use drone foundation, or better drone comb, and rely on the mites (rather than us) selecting the larvae they will reproduce in and so were they will be. They both have a place in our management. The fact that mites prefer drone larvae to worker larvae given a choice, and that in drone larvae they are able to *increase* their numbers (in worker they only maintain their numbers) is not germane. > On my original post I asked for someone to calculate (who knows the >Varroa breeding cycle) the space between the two cycles of adding two >frames at intervals to hit breeding maturity. Missed that, I'm not sure I can do this but I'll think about it. > Surely the breeding cycle is, mature adults move into breeding cells, >immature Varroa are *released* from the cell when the host emerges, they >then attach themselves to a bee, and move from bee to bee until they >mature. At which time the cycle repeats. More or less. To be pedantic its mature females going into the cells, the males and immature females never emerge but die in the cell. Only mature female adults emerge and they may or may not travel, they can also jump right back into another cell and continue if there's one handy. If I remember rightly ('cos I have'nt got my notes) the females are good for up to six cycles given the chance (This may be UK/climate specific). None of this affects the point you make though, which is that the combs of either type must be removed once sealed. -- Dave Black Blacks Bee Gardens, Guildford, GU1 4RN. UK. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 09:51:52 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Bonnie Pierson Subject: grease patties Mike W., I really don't have a mite problem either, and made it through the winter last year just fine. I think the grease patties are a big impact on the mites-both kinds. I keep grease patties on my colonies all the time. I believe that the grease coats the two front legs of the mites and masks all their senses. Mites can't tell hot or cold, or dry or oily,ect, and end up just wandering instead of host searching, home searching. Bonnie Pierson, N. Ohio ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 9 Jan 1997 16:58:29 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Adrian Wenner Subject: Re: varroa Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To all BEE-L people. I received very many comments about the varroa project on Santa Cruz Island. Unfortunately, I leave very early tomorrow morning for the island again and cannot reply until my return next week. Adrian Adrian M. Wenner (805) 893-2838 (UCSB office) Ecol., Evol., & Marine Biology (805) 893-8062 (UCSB FAX) Univ. of Calif., Santa Barbara (805) 963-8508 (home office & FAX) Santa Barbara, CA 93106 ************************************************************************* * "The difference between real and unreal things is that unreal things * * usually last much longer." Pot-Shots #6728 * * Copyright, Ashleigh Brilliant --- used with permission * ************************************************************************* ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 00:35:43 -0500 Reply-To: dronebee@norfolk.infi.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Dr. Pedro Rodriguez" Organization: InfiNet Subject: Re: comb-trapping MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit bee-l@cnsibm.albany.edu wrote: > > David Eyre wrote: > > > > If I may be so bold. This method is not a breeding program. The idea is to > > attract *already mature* adults which are ready to breed. I reiterate, > > when the cell is sealed it is removed from the hive. > > Surely the breeding cycle is, mature adults move into breeding cells, > > immature Varroa are *released* from the cell when the host emerges, they > > then attach themselves to a bee, and move from bee to bee until they > > mature. At which time the cycle repeats. > > This is a discussion group! Comments! > > In my opinion, David is rightly describing the life/breeding cycle of > the varroa mite. My understanding is that the mite breeds selectively > in drone cells during the summer, then when drone brood tapers off in > the fall they jump to worker brood. This weakens the developing winter > bees, thereby imperiling the survival of the colony over the winter. > > I believe, as does David, that the drone trapping method is a valid > control for varroa. > Ted Fischer > Dexter, Michigan USA Dear beekeepers and Bee-L recipients: I thought that I would let "dead dogs lie" regarding the Varroa mite trapping method described above and elsewhere. I don't wish to get embroiled in yet another controversy. It is not my nature to argue, quite the contrary, those who know me will ascertain to the fact that my character is diametrically opposed. But I am sincerely disturbed by reputable beekeepers to favor such a practice! What has happened to common sense? We all know that foraging bees stray into other colonies. We all know that drones are allowed "free" entrance to strange colonies! If we have a "breeding" situation as proposed with this setup, how can we keep mites from parasitizing foraging bees and drones which are not "trapped?" It is impossible to prevent spread of those mites under any circunstance. Beekeepers ought to be concerned with erradicating Varroa and should earnestly avoid any situation which might give "the little red devils" an edge! Please let's not forget common beekeeping knowledge! The two examples I mentioned above are enough to warrant looking for a safer method! Regards. Dr. Pedro Rodriguez Virginia Beach, Virginia USA ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 09:48:56 -0800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: John Volpe Subject: Re: comb-trapping Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 12:35 AM 1/10/97 -0500, you wrote: >bee-l@cnsibm.albany.edu wrote: >> >> David Eyre wrote: >> > >> > If I may be so bold. This method is not a breeding program. The idea is to >> > attract *already mature* adults which are ready to breed. I reiterate, >> > when the cell is sealed it is removed from the hive. >snip< >> > This is a discussion group! Comments! ---------------------------------------- >> In my opinion, David is rightly describing the life/breeding cycle of >> the varroa mite. >snip< >> Ted Fischer >> Dexter, Michigan USA ---------------------------------------- >Dear beekeepers and Bee-L recipients: >snip< It is impossible to prevent spread of those mites under any >circunstance. Beekeepers ought to be concerned with erradicating Varroa >and should earnestly avoid any situation which might give "the little >red devils" an edge! Please let's not forget common beekeeping >knowledge! The two examples I mentioned above are enough to warrant >looking for a safer method! >Regards. >Dr. Pedro Rodriguez >Virginia Beach, Virginia USA ------------------------------------------ Who said anything about not looking for a safer method? I think David Eyre hit the nail on the head "this is a discussion group". I doubt anyone wants to "give 'the little red devils' an edge" and we would all welcome a more stringent protocol for control / elimination. I don't think it fair to chastise the group for discussing a plan of attack using the tools at hand. Now, if there were more effective tools/ideas available that anyone may like to share with us (he says while glancing in the general direction of Virginia Beach)........well, it may be a different story but I haven't run across anything. Being on Vancouver Island I have yet to have to deal with mites first hand but I find the discussions most interesting and educational and would not wish to see anyone stifled just because he/she didn't have the golden bullet loaded and ready to fire - discuss on! Cheers, John --------------------------------------------------------- John P. Volpe Centre for Environmental Health Dept. of Biology - University of Victoria PO Box 3020, Victoria, British Columbia, CANADA V8W 3N5 TEL. (250) 721 7098 or (250) 472-4067 (message) FAX. (250) 472 4075 Email jvolpe@uvic.ca "Well-timed silence hath more eloquence than speech." Martin Farquhar Tupper (1810-1889) ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 14:22:54 -0600 Reply-To: dvisrael@earthlink.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Donald V Israel Subject: Chalkbrood MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit There in an article tn the Aug 96 "BEE CULTURE" on chalkbrood. It is in the net at www.airoot.com/arch.htm or www.airoot.com/chalk.htm Thought someone asked for it. Don ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 11:04:58 -0800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Roy Nettlebeck Subject: Re: Varroa and Chalkbrood In-Reply-To: <36808.ptacek@elanor.sci.muni.cz> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Fri, 10 Jan 1997, Vladimir Ptacek wrote: > My oppinion is that chemical treetment connected with Varroa protective > measures weaknes the resistence of colonies at general and this results in > increasing appearence of diseases inclusive chalkbrood. Hi Vladimir, I'm very glad to see you still with us on Bee-l.In regards to your post: I feel that some of the treatments for Varroa do weaken the bees. Chalkbrood is a Fungi and it takes two different mycelium to touch each other to reproduce. A drop in larva temp from 35 C to 30 C. will make the larva most susecptible. We do have different bee behavior do to chemicals and viruses in our hives, do to the problem with Varroa. I belive that there is a strong correlation between different bee Pathogens. We are getting hit with more than Varroa. We have chalkbrood spores that last up to 15 years in the hives and only need to have the right condition to start to multiply. Some bees are less likely to get chalkbrood than others.There is genetic work being done on that problem now.If you weaken any bees by the use of Chemicals or, varroa you will have a problem with chalkbrood. Less bees to keep the brood warm , will set off the fungi that causes chalkbrood.( Ascophaera apis ) Sometimes in the spring beekeepers can cause there own chalkbrood problems. Don't chill brood. Best Regards Roy ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 15:19:50 -0500 Reply-To: beeworks@muskoka.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: David Eyre Organization: beeworks Subject: Re: Splits MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT On 9 Jan 97 at 1:42, Ted Fischer wrote: Re: Splits > On your second question: In my opinion, by putting frames of eggs and > young brood into a nuc, you will be trying to get too much production > from too few bees. I don't think that a nuc will be able to raise a > good queen from scratch. If you get anything at all, she will likely be > a runt. Not strictly true. A nuc will make a very satisfactory queen PROVIDED the following are adhered too. Lots of young bees (recently emerged) Lots of stores, especially pollen Incoming nectar Limited number of queen cells. The other major problem. The nuc is under pressure to make a queen of any sort. Under these circumstances they will often take a larvae that is really too old, these produce a scrub, but as the saying goes 'any port in a storm' What happens now is, superscedure, now the bees have time. To prevent this happening, go to hive at 4 days after introducing eggs, cut out any sealed cells found. The Golden Rule "any cell sealed in under 9 days from egg laying is NO good" Cull them!!! Don't waste your time trying them!!!! ********************************************************* The Bee Works, 9 Progress Drive Unit 2, Orillia, Ontario, Canada. L3V 6H1 David Eyre, Owner. Phone/Fax 705 326 7171 Agents for E.H.Thorne & B.J.Sherriff UK http://www.muskoka.net/~beeworks ********************************************************* ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 15:19:51 -0500 Reply-To: beeworks@muskoka.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: David Eyre Organization: beeworks Subject: Re: comb-trapping (was: foundation in brood nest) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT On 9 Jan 97 at 17:26, Dave Black wrote: Re: comb-trapping (was: foundation > Lets be clear that this method is a *trap* method. You trap the mites > and remove them. It is *not* a mite breeding programm unless you get it > wrong. Secondly, you have choice about whether to treat the brood and > put it back (using Formic acid say) or discard it as an unecessary Well you learn something every day!! perhaps it might be a good idea if the author wrote out this new method (using Formic Acid) it's a new one on me. Even better, if you can spare the time David, could you write up both methods so that we (over here) can compare both. Please!!! ********************************************************* The Bee Works, 9 Progress Drive Unit 2, Orillia, Ontario, Canada. L3V 6H1 David Eyre, Owner. Phone/Fax 705 326 7171 Agents for E.H.Thorne & B.J.Sherriff UK http://www.muskoka.net/~beeworks ********************************************************* ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 15:19:51 -0500 Reply-To: beeworks@muskoka.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: David Eyre Organization: beeworks Subject: Re: Varroa and Chalkbrood MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT On 9 Jan 97 at 17:22, Alida Francisco Janmaat wrote: Varroa and Chalkbrood > Chalkbrood appears to be a problem when there are not enough adult bees in > a colony to maintain the appropriate temperature in the brood nest. If > adult populations in colonies are beginning to decrease, yet brood > production has not decreased, the brood may become > chilled and chalkbrood will result. Seems logical, as there seems more chalk brood in the early spring. I have two questions:- 1 Is there any correlation between damp hives and chalkbrood. I find on adding ventilation it (chalk brood) is reduced or eliminated. 2 Why do we requeen, when it has been proved that it is not genetic. Comments? ********************************************************* The Bee Works, 9 Progress Drive Unit 2, Orillia, Ontario, Canada. L3V 6H1 David Eyre, Owner. Phone/Fax 705 326 7171 Agents for E.H.Thorne & B.J.Sherriff UK http://www.muskoka.net/~beeworks ********************************************************* ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 14:39:12 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: kuehn john c Subject: Kenya Top Bar Hives MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII The November APIS contained an article about KTBH and their advantages in some situations. We are attracted to the idea of using them to get quick efficient access to brood nests without alot of lifting, for use in breeding and selection. If any of you are using them and have designs or practical suggestions, please let me know. Has anyone made frames with end and bottom bars for the KTBH? Jack Kuehn, University of Illinois bee lab ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 21:15:02 GMT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Glyn Davies Subject: Re: Chalkbrood and Varroa Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Bee-liners, There are two points that have occurred to me during this discussion. I think there is a definite inherited susceptibility to chalk brood and a bad case appearing is usually cleared up by requeening from cb. free stock I find. Strictly culling suspect Queens is a vital part of good management in my view. Using drone comb to trap and reduce mites can work but obviously has to be very efficienly managed or else too many drones and thousands of mites are released into the hive! But I don't like the idea because I think it will be putting environmental pressure onto the mites for the selection of those mites that 'prefer' worker brood. However I don't understand the biological interactions well enough to work out if that would be even more harmful to beekeeping. Can anyone offer a suggestion? Allen's notes below motivated me to make this 'combined' posting. Glyn Davies, Ashburton, Devon UK >Using *selected* bee stock will reduce mummies on the bottom board. >I don't know fore sure if it means the bees just haul the larvae our >before they get to that state, or if there is real resistance. I >suspect the latter, since the chalkbrood free stock usually appears >to have pretty solid brood patterns. > > >Regards > >Allen > >W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper VE6CFK >RR#1, Swalwell, Alberta Canada T0M 1Y0 >Internet:dicka@cuug.ab.ca & allend@internode.net >Honey. Bees, & Art > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 18:58:11 +0000 Reply-To: tvf@umich.edu Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Theodore V. Fischer" Organization: The University of Michigan Subject: Re: Splits MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit David Eyre wrote: > A nuc will make a very satisfactory queen PROVIDED the > following are adhered too. > Lots of young bees (recently emerged) > Lots of stores, especially pollen > Incoming nectar > Limited number of queen cells. > The other major problem. The nuc is under pressure to make a queen of any > sort. Under these circumstances they will often take a larvae that is > really too old, these produce a scrub, but as the saying goes 'any port in > a storm' What happens now is, superscedure, now the bees have time. My understanding of the original post was that a supercedure queen was planned, in essence, to be raised by a nuc given a frame of eggs. This, as you say, will result in a scrub, if anything. I fully agree that a properly prepared nuc will do a fine job of hatching out a ripe queen cell given to it (which I assume from your list of criteria). Ted Fischer Dexter, Michigan USA ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 19:13:24 +0000 Reply-To: tvf@umich.edu Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Theodore V. Fischer" Organization: The University of Michigan Subject: Re: comb-trapping MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dr. Pedro Rodriguez wrote: > > What has happened to > common sense? We all know that foraging bees stray into other colonies. > We all know that drones are allowed "free" entrance to strange colonies! > If we have a "breeding" situation as proposed with this setup, how can > we keep mites from parasitizing foraging bees and drones which are not > "trapped?" It is impossible to prevent spread of those mites under any > circunstance. The logic of comb-trapping is that the *capped* drone brood is removed and destroyed, along with any mites which may be with them inside their capped cells. Such drones are never allowed to mature and carry mites anywhere. It is only after the brood and mites are killed are they put back into the colony, whose bees then throw out the dead drone pupae and dead mites. Thus there is nothing to spread. This is the common sense to this approach. Ted Fischer Dexter, Michigan USA ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 18:42:04 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ian Watson Subject: Re: Varroa and Chalkbrood In-Reply-To: <199701102021.PAA00562@segwun.muskoka.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Fri, 10 Jan 1997, David Eyre wrote: > Seems logical, as there seems more chalk brood in the early spring. > I have two questions:- > 1 Is there any correlation between damp hives and chalkbrood. I find on > adding ventilation it (chalk brood) is reduced or eliminated. > 2 Why do we requeen, when it has been proved that it is not genetic. > Comments? Yes... How do you mean, "that it is not genetic"...? Ian @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ @ Ian Watson @ @ iwatson@freenet.npiec.on.ca @ @ @ @ THREE BEES: @ @ Bach singer ,/// @ @ Bee keeper >8'III}- @ @ Bell ringer ',\\\ @ @ @ @ 4 hives, 2 years in Beekeeping @ @ St. Catharines, Canada @ @ "I BEE, therefore I am" @ @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 19:09:32 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Greg Hankins Subject: Polyurethane for Hives? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I haven't kept bees since Jr. High, when I took over my grandfather's three hives after his death, but today I ordered two complete hives and two extra deep supers from Brushy Mountain Bee Farm. The question is: can I stain the exterior surfaces with a good wood stain and use marine-quality polyurethane coating over that rather than the standard white latex paint treatment? Or is there something in the spar varnish or stain that repels bees? Thanks for any and all help. I've only been lurking for a few days (though I did read a year's worth of archives), but this looks like a great list. The FAQ is a bit off-putting in its description, though. It makes the list sound far less practically-oriented than it really is. Greg ____________________________________________________ Greg Hankins Montgomery Herald ghankins@ac.net Mt. Gilead, NC ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 20:04:40 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Gerry Visel Subject: NETIQUETTE Bee listers, I posted this here some time ago, but there were requests to do it again. Blow it away if you want, or read and file. This was a "lesson" on internet usage from Patrick Crispin, part of his Roadmap 96 "class." This lesson is forwarded with his permission. I learned a lot from his series. (There are instructions at the bottom on subscribing to this series.) Like I said, if you are perfect already, feel free to blow this away... ;-) Gerry QUOTE: MAP07: NETIQUETTE "When thou enter a city abide by its customs." -- The Talmud We have covered a lot of ground this week. We learned how the three levels of connectivity differ, how to read an e-mail address, that letters are sent to the list address and commands to the LISTSERV address, and we even looked at the world of other mailing list programs. The Internet, however, is made up of more than computers and commands. All of the computers and commands would be useless if it were not for the people who use them. The commands are neat but it is the PEOPLE who make the Internet what it is. The problem is that every grouping of people develops its own culture and common rules that govern the behavior of the people. Today's lesson is going to give you an insider's look at how to avoid some of the mistakes that EVERYONE makes when they start out on the Internet. If you can take what is said in this lesson to heart, you are going to find that your travels on the Information Superhighway will be a whole lot smoother. The following "Netiquette" guide (netiquette is the common way to describe the etiquette of the Internet) was written by my father, the Rev. Bob "Bob" Crispen. I think you will soon see where my sense of humor comes from. :) In fact, it was because of my dad that I first got onto the Internet. I got an e-mail account so that I could e-mail him and ask him for money. ----- NETIQUETTE by the Rev. Bob "Bob" Crispen (Patrick Crispen's daddy) One of these days you're going to get tired of Web surfing or listening in on LISTSERVs, IRCs, Usenet newsgroups or whatever, and you're going to want to say something yourself. At that moment your life will change. Let's see if we can't make that a change for the better. EVANGELISM: Everyone is tempted from time to time to evangelize, to stride boldly into the enemy's camp and throw down the gauntlet. We will never see the end of people who pop up on "comp.sys.intel" praising Macs and Amigas; who send mail to the SKEPTIC list that flying saucers really, truly do exist; who enlighten the Buddhist newsgroups that they're all bound for hell, and on and on. In the entire history of the Net, no one has managed to do this without looking like a complete idiot. If you believe you are the one person who will succeed where millions have failed, then you're ready to learn about ... FLAMES: There is nothing you can say that won't offend somebody: >It's a bright, sunny day today. You filthy *@!?$, what have you got against Seattle? Flames (violent verbal expressions of disapproval), misunderstandings, overreactions, and hurt feelings are par for the course. Four lessons from experience: (1) HEDGE YOUR BETS. Rather than saying, "Metal rules! Death to all that appose [sic]!!" try saying "In my humble opinion (often abbreviated IMHO) metal bands perfectly express my feelings, choices, and lifestyle. Your mileage may vary" (another net cliche', less frequently abbreviated YMMV). By the way, BTW is another frequent net abbreviation, for what it's worth (FWIW). Watch the abbreviations until you're sure of them, or you may have your readers ROTFL (rolling on the floor, laughing). (2) APOLOGIZE. When misunderstanding is the culprit, and especially if you respect the person who misunderstood, take the blame on yourself for being unclear, apologize, say what you meant more clearly (if appropriate) and put it behind you. As in real life (remember that?) people who are quick to anger are often equally quick to forgive. (3) AVOID FLAME BAIT (conduct which gravely offends the norms, mores and folkways of a particular group). "Now wait a minute!" you say. "Do you mean that something that's accepted behavior on one list or newsgroup will draw dozens of stinging, ridiculing comments in another?" I sure do. Think about it. Do you expect the people who post on "comp.lang.ada" (about the Ada programming language) to be anything like the people who post to "rec.pets.cats?" What can you do? Lurk a while before you post. Read what's said like an anthropologist, trying to discover what the big "don't"s are. The beginning of a school term is a wonderful time to do this, as you will observe the clueless newbies, who weren't smart enough to read this paragraph, being torn to shreds. There are some things you should NEVER do, and we'll list them in a minute, but let's get to the last bit of advice. (4) Bow down to the group's gods. In every Usenet newsgroup and LISTSERV mailing list there are old, gray heads who have earned the respect of everyone in the group. For example, amongst the subscribers to the list discussing the late American bandleader Stan Kenton are the producer of a Kenton box set and the authors of definitive Kenton biographies and discographies. You are entirely ignorant compared to those people. Never pretend you're anything else. They would dearly love to help you -- to answer a question, help you find a rare record -- but you'll always come out second best in a head-butting contest with them. Still other group members have earned their status through long service. Friendships have developed over many years, and marriage is not unknown. By commenting abusively to or about one of these gods, you'll earn not only her enmity, but the enmity of all of her friends -- which may be everyone in the group but you! DO'S AND DON'TS (or how to avoid most flames): (1) DON'T include the entire contents of a previous posting in your reply. (1) DO cut mercilessly. Leave just enough to indicate what you're responding to. NEVER include mail headers except maybe the "From:" line. If you can't figure out how to delete lines in your mailer software, paraphrase or type the quoted material in. (2) DON'T reply to a point in a posting without quoting or paraphrasing what you're responding to and who said it. Reason: a dozen postings may occur between the original message and your reply. At some sites your reply may arrive before the original does. (2) DO quote (briefly) or paraphrase. If the original "Subject:" line was "Big dogs" make sure yours says "Re: Big dogs". Some reply functions do this automatically. By net convention, included (quoted) lines are preceded by ">" (greater-than signs). Some mail editors and newsreaders do this automatically. Others require you to do it manually or to set the "indent character" to ">." Microsoft Exchange is the hardest to use if you want to correspond on the Internet. Unless you're a Word expert, you'll have to enter the ">" signs by hand and get rid of the mail header and indentations. Some versions of Exchange client put the cursor for your reply *before* the message you're replying to; how useless! Move the cursor so that your readers will see the message you're responding to first, then your response. (3) DON'T send a message saying, "Why doesn't anybody say anything about X?" or "Who wants to talk about X?" (3) It's always a risk to start a new topic (often called a thread). The group may have just finished a long, bitter war about that very subject. But if you want to take the risk, SAY SOMETHING yourself about the subject you're raising. (4) DON'T send lines longer than 70 characters. This is a kindness to folks with terminal-based mail editors or newsreaders. Some mail and news gateways truncate extra characters, turning your deathless prose into gibberish. (4) Some mail and news editors only SEEM to insert line breaks for you but actually don't, so that every paragraph is one immense line. Learn what your mail and news editors do by mailing a message to yourself (or posting it to alt.test) and reading the message in a couple of mail and news readers. Unix mail or Mail (they're different) and nn and Netscape Navigator's mail and news readers will usually let you read your message in a plain, vanilla form, the way others will see it. (5) DON'T SEND A MESSAGE IN ALL CAPS. CAPITALIZED MESSAGES ARE HARDER TO READ THAN LOWER CASE OR MIXED CASE. (5) DO use normal capitalization. Separate your paragraphs with blank lines. Make your message inviting to your potential readers. (6) DON'T betray confidences. It's all too easy to quote a personal message by mistake in a message to the entire group. (6) DO read the "To:" and "Cc:" lines in your message before you send it. Are you SURE you want the message to go there? (7) DON'T make statements which can be interpreted as official positions of your organization or offers to do business. Saying "Boy, I'd sure like to have one of those new supercomputers" could result in a truck at your loading dock and a bill in the mail even larger than your student loan. (7) DO treat every post as though you were sending a copy to your boss, your minister, and your worst enemy. I customarily end every message I send from work with "Speaking for myself, not my company." (8) DON'T rely on the ability of your readers to tell the difference between serious statements and satire or sarcasm. It's hard to write funny. It's even harder to write satire. (8) DO remember that no one can hear your tone of voice. Use emoticons (or smileys) like :-) or ;^) -- tilt your head counterclockwise to see the smile. You can also use caps for emphasis or use net conventions for italics and underlines as in: You said the guitar solo on "Comfortably Numb" from Pink Floyd's _The Wall_ was *lame*? Are you OUT OF YOUR MIND???!!! Some mail editors (Exchange again) let you insert all kinds of special characters and put your text in boldface, italics or different fonts. Don't give in to the temptation to use those features unless you're certain that everyone whom you intend to read your message has the same editor. (9) DON'T put a huge signature at the bottom of your messages. (9) DO exercise some restraint. Remember that a large number of mail and news readers out there are set up to use proportional fonts, and your lovely ASCII art will look nothing like you intended it to on those readers. Remember also that there's a Usenet newsgroup(2) out there whose sole function is to make fun of people's signatures. Try not to appear there. (10) DON'T send a message that says nothing but "Me, too." This is most annoying when combined with (1) or (2) above. Ditto for "I don't know." (10) DO recall that you aren't obligated to reply to every single thing you read. Remember the immortal words of Martin Farquhar Tupper (1810-1889): "Well-timed silence hath more eloquence than speech." A word to people living in the United States: the net is international. If you tell a Belgian she's being un-American, SHE ISN'T OFFENDED. OF COURSE she's un-American; you're un-Belgian. She doesn't care about being lectured on the First Amendment and American values. She doesn't HAVE a First Amendment, and she thinks Belgian values are BETTER. We Americans have made fools of ourselves by forgetting this everywhere else. Let's try to behave a little better on the net. Finally, many groups have had the sense to write down some of their norms and folkways in a frequently asked questions (FAQ) list along with (what else?) the answers to frequently asked questions. Many Usenet FAQs are posted monthly or so on the news.answers (alt.answers, comp.answers) newsgroups. Listowners of LISTSERVs are often quite willing to mail you the FAQ for the list. In fact, they may have already told you where it is in the letter you get welcoming you to the list. With all we've said above, and with all the help newsgroup moderators and listowners are providing to newcomers, it almost seems like you'd have to work at it to go charging in with your mouth open and your eyes and ears shut, thereby aggravating and alienating some otherwise perfectly nice people. The good Lord gave us two eyes and two ears and one mouth to remind us of that very thing. But then he went and gave us ten fingers to type with, and here we are. ----- Now a note from me: HOMEWORK: There are DOZENS of Netiquette guides on the Internet, although IMHO none of them are as good as my dad's. :) (1) Actually, Arlene Rinaldi has a HUGE Netiquette guide that I am going to show you how to retrieve using file transfer protocol, gopher, and the WWW later on in the workshop. So your homework today is: 1. Save this lesson. 2. Reread this lesson several times. 3. Have a GREAT weekend! NOTES: (1) My smileys don't have noses. :) (2) The group is alt.fan.warlord. The reason why this group makes fun of signatures instead of talking about warlord (whatever that is) is lost in the mists of time. (\__/) .~ ~. )) /O O ./ .' Patrick Douglas Crispen {O__, \ { The University of Alabama / . . ) \ crispen@campus.mci.net |-| '-' \ } http://ua1vm.ua.edu/~crispen/ .( _( )_.' '---.~_ _ _& Warning: squirrels. ROADMAP96: COPYRIGHT 1996 BY PATRICK DOUGLAS CRISPEN. To unsubscribe from ROADMAP96, send a new e-mail letter to LISTSERV@LISTS.INTERNIC.NET with the command SIGNOFF * in the body of your e-mail letter. To subscribe to ROADMAP96, send a new e-mail letter to LISTSERV@LISTS.INTERNIC.NET with the command SUBSCRIBE ROADMAP96 YOURFIRSTNAME YOURLASTNAME in the body of your e-mail letter, replacing YOURFIRSTNAME and YOURLASTNAME with your first and last names. The views, opinions, and conclusions reached in this lesson are those of Patrick Douglas Crispen and not necessarily those of The University of Alabama or its officers and trustees. The content of this lesson has not been reviewed or approved by The University of Alabama, and the author is solely responsible for its content. END QUOTE Gerry and the other Visels at Visel7@juno.com Winnebago, Illinois, USA ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 20:52:31 -0800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Roy Nettlebeck Subject: Re: Chalkbrood and Varroa In-Reply-To: <199701102115.VAA04373@hermes.zynet.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Fri, 10 Jan 1997, Glyn Davies wrote: > Bee-liners, > > There are two points that have occurred to me during this discussion. > I think there is a definite inherited susceptibility to chalk brood and a > bad case appearing is usually cleared up by requeening from cb. free stock I > find. Strictly culling suspect Queens is a vital part of > good management in my view. > Hi Glyn , I belive your statement to be correct. Steve Taber has been helping Dr. Gilliam do some work on susceptibility to chalk brood. Some lines clear it up and others fail to remove the mummies. This falls back on hygienic behavior . Chalk-Brood is a fungi and with an enviornment that cools down and has moisture , you have a very good chance to have some larva infected.The spores can last for 15 years and still infect the larva. So there is a very good chance that a high percentage of hives do have some spores in them that could infect the larva.The 30 C. is an important factor and the other is the susceptibility of your bees to chalk-brood.Some bees clean it right out and you would never know if they had chalk-brood or not without some very close observation in a lab. I think you hit it right on the head with culling out suspect queens.Its important to have a good line of bees that work well for you in your area. I'm in western Washington State US and we have moisture problems.Some bees do better here than others. I do not belive that there is a perfect bee for all the areas of the world.Beekeepers need to spend some time to evaluate there queens and how there bees are preforming.I think most of them do and they do requeening. Best Regards Roy ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 01:37:19 -0600 Reply-To: dvisrael@earthlink.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Donald V Israel Subject: Chalkbrood on the net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I blundered and am sorry. I gave addresses for an article in Bee Culture on chalkbrood that can be read on the net. I took them from my bookmarks which get them everytime. Recieved a note saying they did not work so I tried them and they didn't. This will work. www.airoot.com Click on Bee Culture Click on Archived Articles and go down the list to Aug 96 and click on the subject While I am here, I would like to have back copies of any Bee journals or magazines that someone might not want. Send requirements to my email address please. Thank you Don ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 08:14:28 +0000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Rick Grossman Subject: Re: foundation in brood nest Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Concerning placement of foundation, I found it interesting that even those very experienced were trying to find the magic answer. I have found that the right placement of foundation within the hive seems to be as varied as the conditions under which the bees themselves are operating - strength of hive, weather, nectar and pollen conditions to name just a few.. I have only so far figured out that I do not yet know which is the "best" method. I have had both successes and failures with side placed foundation. The failures involved either limiting the hive because the foundation did not get drawn or because the bees filled the comb in process with honey before the comb was finished enough for the queen to get to it. Other times, it worked "as it was supposed to". I have also had success and failures with center placed foundation - when it works, the hive draws it out quickly and it builds hive space and strength rapidly. When it fails, it tends to slow down the hive because it splits the brood nest and slows down egg production. I have also had successes and failures with individual placings of foundation within the hive for swarm control. This discussion has helped me realize that my lack of figuring out why it worked or didn't work seems to be normal. I will try to be more observant in the future and see if I can't figure out under which conditions the various placements will work. Rick Grossman Portland (Western-Wet), Oregon ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 09:12:31 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Faith Andrews Bedford Subject: Re: Apology and varroa biology In a message dated 97-01-08 12:44:51 EST, Adrian Wenner writes: > The sudden colony collapse without beekeepers being aware of an >infestation now becomes more understandable. My impression is that a >colony can harbor ever higher loads of varroa infestation and then suddenly >reaches a breaking point. In this case, they could no longer keep their >broo Thank you, Adrian, for sharing this with us. I've been a beekeeper for l6 years, observing and reading, and trying hard to understanding what was going on in my apiary. Reading the above, brief paragraph was like having a veil lifted from before my eyes. Suddenly, so much of what I have been seeing the past two or three years made sense. All the reading of this bee-line is worth it to find such a kernel amongst the chaff. Some thoughts are percolating right now; could you give me your two cents on them. I do my usual spring balancing of hives by swapping frames of brood from heavy hives to lighter ones. Last year, after such manipulations, I noticed that one hive had challkbrood. My heart sunk. Had I moved some frames from it to another colony? I could not remember. But, reflecting now, might such actions not only have spread chalkbrood but varroa as well. Then again, if both are in one hive might such conditions spread to the others even without frame exchanges? Thank you, Adrian (and any others) for the input. Meanwhile, keep up the good work. This past posting was fascinating. No wonder island nations (Hawaii,etc.) want to keep out other bees! Faith Andrews Bedford Ivy, VA and Tampa ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 09:12:41 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Faith Andrews Bedford Subject: Re: cut comb honey prices Mark, I keep bees in Virginia and, if I sell it at all, sell crystal-clear boxes of cut comb for $3.00 - wholesale. Faith Andrews Bedford, Ivy VA and Tampa ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 07:57:32 -0700 Reply-To: allend@internode.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Allen Dick Organization: The Beekeepers Subject: Re: Chalkbrood on the net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT >From Gleanings at http://www.airoot.com/chalk.htm "Like most fungi, chalkbrood produces spores for reproduction. Spores are transferred to previously uninfested colonies by drifting bees, using contaminated tools, or contaminated comb transfer. Once spores are in a colony, they come in contact with 3-4 day-old larvae by being fed to them, or clinging to cell walls. After being sealed in the cells, if the larvae are chilled in the next two days, even briefly, the spores germinate and begin growing when the temperature increases again. They germinate in the gut, or on the larvae's surface, and begin feeding (surface germinating spores work their way into the larvae's gut). Once growing the fungus feeds on the same food as the larvae and out-competes them. The larvae starve to death." I wonder... Is chilling *necessary* for chalkbrood to develop? In my experience, bees keep their brood at 96 degrees plus or minus a half degree. Moreover, when brood chilling might ocur due to contraction of the cluster, the centre would still stay at the correct temperature. While it seems I do recall more chalkbrood around the outer edges, it seems to me that chalkbrood can as easily be found in the centre of the middle brood comb. (The article in question was excerpted from Pests, Predators and Diseases Third Edition, Chapter 5, by Martha Gilliam and John Vandenberg) What experiences do others have? Is this statement credible? Is there research proving this? Regards Allen W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper VE6CFK RR#1, Swalwell, Alberta Canada T0M 1Y0 Internet:dicka@cuug.ab.ca & allend@internode.net Honey. Bees, & Art ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 06:01:00 GMT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Andy Nachbaur Organization: WILD BEE'S BBS (209) 826-8107 LOS BANOS, CA Subject: ROUNDUP and more *FYI* Information on those who need to know..is ROUNDUP really safe? ===================================== P A N U P S *** Pesticide Action Network North America Updates Service http://www.panna.org/panna/ ===================================== January 10, 1997 Monsanto Agrees to Change Ads and EPA Fines Northrup King Monsanto Co. agreed to change its advertising for glyphosate- based products, including Roundup, in response to complaints by the New York Attorney General's office that the ads were misleading. Based on their investigation, the Attorney General's office felt that the advertising inaccurately portrayed Monsanto's glyphosate-containing products as safe and as not causing any harmful effects to people or the environment. According to the state, the ads also implied that the risks of products such as Roundup are the same as those of the active ingredient, glyphosate, and do not take into account the possible risks associated with the product's inert ingredients. As part of the agreement, Monsanto will discontinue the use of terms such as "biodegradable" and "environmentally friendly" in all advertising of glyphosate-containing products in New York state and will pay $50,000 toward the state's costs of pursuing the case. The Attorney General has been challenging the ads since 1991. Monsanto maintains that it did not violate any federal, state or local law and that its claims were "true and not misleading in any way." The company states that they entered into the agreement for settlement purposes only in order to avoid costly litigation. According to a 1993 report published by the School of Public Health at the University of California, Berkeley, glyphosate was the third most commonly-reported cause of pesticide illness among agricultural workers. Another study from the School of Public Health found that glyphosate was the most commonly reported cause of pesticide illness among landscape maintenance workers. (Both studies were based on data collected between 1984 and 1990.) In the first nine months of 1996, Monsanto's worldwide agrochemical sales increased by 21% to US$2.48 billion, due largely to increased sales of Roundup. EPA Fines Northrup King Also in November 1996, Northrup King Co. agreed to pay a US$165,200 fine to the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) for importing, producing, selling and distributing an unregistered pesticide P genetically engineered corn containing Bacillus thurgiensis (Bt). This was EPA's first legal action involving a genetically engineered plant pesticide. According to EPA, the company's activities violated the U.S. Federal Insecticide, Fungicide and Rodenticide Act and included failing to file with EPA the required paperwork for importing the Bt corn, and producing the pesticide at eight unregistered facilities during 1994-95. Northrup King, a Sandoz Seeds subsidiary based in Minnesota, maintains that they had been working with the EPA to obtain registration for their Bt corn and expected approval last spring. However, in order to have as much seed as possible to sell to U.S. growers, the company shipped seed to Chile for winter production and brought the increased volumes back to the U.S. for packaging and sale. A company spokesperson stated that the federal process took longer than expected, and therefore Northrup King was in "technical violation" by letting its production get ahead of registration. The originally proposed fine of US$208,500 was reduced by 20% because of what EPA officials called the company's "cooperation and good faith efforts to come into compliance." Northrup King's Bt corn, developed in collaboration with Monsanto using its Yieldgard technology, was registered on August 5, 1996, and the company has been selling seed to U.S. farmers since then for next season's plantings. According to reports, the company expected to sell out by the end of the 1996, and is projecting 500,000 to one million acres planted with the company's seed by next spring. Sources: Agrow: World Crop Protection News, November 15, November 29 & December 13, 1996; EPA News Release, Region 5, November 4, 1996; Minneapolis Star Tribune, November 7, 1996; The Gene Exchange, December 1996; Preventing Pesticide- related Illness in California Agriculture, William Pease, et al., 1993; Pesticides in the Home and Community: Health risks and policy alternatives, J.C. Robinson et al., 1994. Contact: PANNA (see below). =========================================================== | Pesticide Action Network North America (PANNA) | | | | Phone:(415) 541-9140 Fax:(415) 541-9253 | | Email: panna@panna.org http://www.panna.org/panna/| | PANNA, 116 New Montgomery, #810, San Francisco, CA 94105 | | | |*To subscribe to PANUPS send email to MAJORDOMO@igc.apc.org| | with the following text on one line: subscribe panups | | To unsubscribe send the following: unsubscribe panups | | | |*For basic information about PANNA, send an email message | | to panna-info@igc.apc.org | =========================================================== --- ~ QMPro 1.53 ~ Type hard, you're making 15,432 copies ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 17:57:20 +0100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jean-Marie Van Dyck Subject: Re: comb-trapping On Fri, 10 Jan 1997 Ted Fischer wrote: > I believe, as does David, that the drone trapping method is a valid > control for varroa. However, it is extremely labor intensive, and, > while probably ideal for the hobbyist with only a few colonies, would be > impossible for the large commercial beekeeper and quite difficult for a > sideliner such as myself (about 75 colonies). Hello Ted ! It's a work, ok ! but it's easier when YOUR MATERIAL IS ADAPTED. I earlier described the building frame of the German PASCHKE. All my deep brood supers (Dadant 12 frames) are equiped with a 13th frame (about British Standard 21x36 cm) which utility was first to provide a lot of selected drones for our mating place and instrumental insemination. To remove them from the production hive with 2 to 4 supers, you must only open the back door of the hive, a bit of smoke and replace the full frame by an empty one (time (not waste:) only one minute each 2-3 weeks). Jean-Marie Van_Dyck Lat.Long. : N:50.30' E:04.56' - Alt. : 200 m - North sea : 200 km B.P. 102 B-5000 NAMUR(Belgium) Medical school - Biochemistry dept ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 12:04:27 -0600 Reply-To: bbirkey@interaccess.com Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Barry Birkey Organization: www.Birkey.Com Subject: No buzzing? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Taken from the '89 Bee-l log archives. >Date: Fri, 11 Aug 89 10:06:22 EDT >Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology >Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology >From: Aaron Morris >Subject: No buzzing on this line! > >There hasn't been any activity on this line in a long time. Maybe due >to summertime activity? I've been conversing with others but not via >this list, so I thought I'd post my last correspondence in an attempt to >stir things up a little. >Date: Fri, 11 Aug 89 17:21:42 EDT >Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology >Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology >From: Peter Kevan >Subject: News, and lack thereof >Is anyone out there in BEE-L land? It seems that all has been very quiet. My, how things have changed! -Barry -- Barry Birkey West Chicago, Illinois USA bbirkey@interaccess.com http://www.birkey.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 09:27:50 +-200 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: baxter YAZBEK Subject: Re: Varroa and Chalkbrood MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="---- =_NextPart_000_01BBFFA8.A1704A20" ------ =_NextPart_000_01BBFFA8.A1704A20 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Fri, 10 Jan 1997, David Eyre wrote: > Seems logical, as there seems more chalk brood in the early spring. > I have two questions:- > 1 Is there any correlation between damp hives and chalkbrood. = I find on > adding ventilation it (chalk brood) is reduced or eliminated. > 2 Why do we requeen, when it has been proved that it is not = genetic. > Comments? dear david, in lebanon (middle east) we have hot and humid summers, brood chills i = believe are not a problem for us yet during high humidity summers, we do = have outbreaks of chalkbrood this was the case 2 and 3 years ago the only effective means of controlling the spores was better = ventilation and more direct sunlight i.e. less humidity in the beehive one thing was putting a stone to higher the hive cover and permit better = air circulation in and out of the hive. as for requeening, i think its mostly because the lifespan of the queen = is reduced because of chemical treatemnet of varroatoses Baxter Yazbek (Agr. 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Our own experience indicates that weak hives are more susceptible. Again, I believe that stress is a factor, as is hygienic behavior, etc. Jerry Bromenshenk The University of Montana jjbmail@selway.umt.edu ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 15:06:32 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Robert Watson Subject: Re: Polyurethane for Hives? In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Fri, 10 Jan 1997, Greg Hankins wrote: > The question is: can I stain the exterior surfaces with a good wood stain > and use marine-quality polyurethane coating over that rather than the > standard white latex paint treatment? Or is there something in the spar > varnish or stain that repels bees? I'm no expert, but I doubt if there's a problem. My brother uses wood preservative and polyurethane. I use oil-based paint, not latex. Robert ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 17:52:20 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Bill Miller Subject: Re: Polyurethane for Hives? Will polyurethane finishes/stains work for beehives? I can't see any problem with using polyurethane finishes/stains on a beehive. Anything that is a good exterior finish will work. W. G. Miller Gaithersburg, MD ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 12 Jan 1997 00:02:56 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Tom Allen Subject: Re: Apistan residue on the label of the Apistan strips there is the frequently used term "dispose of properly". What is proper disposal of Apistan.Some one please advise. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 12 Jan 1997 00:03:00 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Tom Allen Subject: Re: Feeder Bags Thanks for all your comment of plastic feederbags. I built a holder frame ti acce pt the feeder bags without squeezing them. Found that many bees go into the slkits and consequenlty died there in. New season the cuts will be tiny, I think that an X-Acto double edge point will probably work better than the razor blade. DO you put yur slits in before or after installation in hive.?? Looking forwadt to your replies ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 23:04:12 -0700 Reply-To: allend@internode.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Allen Dick Organization: The Beekeepers Subject: Re: foundation in brood nest MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT > Concerning placement of foundation, I found it interesting that even > those very experienced were trying to find the magic answer. I have > found that the right placement of foundation within the hive seems > to be as varied as the conditions under which the bees themselves > are operating - strength of hive, weather, nectar and pollen > conditions to name just a few.. One thing I did not mention is that we like to place the foundation in each new brood chamber that goes to the field before it goes out, so that we do not have to take it out separately, which is a hassle. This is a new idea that comes from using plastic foundation, which can travel and be handled repeatedly. We tried the second from outside, but had a few problems, even if it is a conservative positon, and have concluded that the outside positionis best. We can move it in from there, or leave it there, depending on the hive. Regards Allen W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper VE6CFK RR#1, Swalwell, Alberta Canada T0M 1Y0 Internet:dicka@cuug.ab.ca & allend@internode.net Honey. Bees, & Art ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 12 Jan 1997 09:04:04 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: KEN LAWRENCE Subject: Re: Feeder Bags MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Tom Allen wrote: > > Thanks for all your comment of plastic feederbags. DO you put yur slits in before or after installation in hive.?? > Looking forwadt to your replies I have tried the plastic gallon bags and had no problem. I cut them after I placed them over the frames. I have never seen a dead bee inside the bag. I make the slit about 1 1/2 in long. I have not tried to reuse them but suppose it could be done. Ken Lawrence ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 12 Jan 1997 12:39:04 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Steve Jones Subject: Re: Polyurethane for Hives? << Will polyurethane finishes/stains work for beehives? >> Polyurethane finishes/stains are fine if you want a nice looking hive. Definitely use spar varnish or some other type of exterior poly. However, the poly will not last and will continually need to be recoated. I use linseed oil as it is easier to put on (lazy me) and also preserves the wood just fine, although it darkens it considerably. I try not to use poly outside because of the maintenance involved. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 12 Jan 1997 13:29:23 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ian Watson Subject: Re: Polyurethane for Hives? In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Sat, 11 Jan 1997, Robert Watson wrote: > I'm no expert, but I doubt if there's a problem. My brother uses wood > preservative and polyurethane. I use oil-based paint, not latex. Yes, I used "Thompson's Water Seal" first, applying 3 or 4 coats, then I used a satin finish urethane on top of that after letting the "Thompson's" dry well for up to a week. The idea was to use this on brood boxes so the darker colour of the wood, would help warm the colony during winter. Plus, they look nice! I paint my honey supers with a LATEX white paint. So far the latex seems to be holding up, plus being easy to clean up...I use several coats also. @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ @ Ian Watson @ @ iwatson@freenet.npiec.on.ca @ @ @ @ THREE BEES: @ @ Bach singer ,/// @ @ Bee keeper >8'III}- @ @ Bell ringer ',\\\ @ @ @ @ 4 hives, 2 years in Beekeeping @ @ St. Catharines, Canada @ @ "I BEE, therefore I am" @ @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 12 Jan 1997 13:49:58 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ian Watson Subject: Re: Polyurethane for Hives? In-Reply-To: <970112123903_1991803394@emout03.mail.aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII I forgot to mention...I use a type of polyurethane meant for boats. It has additives to counter the suns damaging ultra-violet radiation. Ian @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ @ Ian Watson @ @ iwatson@freenet.npiec.on.ca @ @ @ @ THREE BEES: @ @ Bach singer ,/// @ @ Bee keeper >8'III}- @ @ Bell ringer ',\\\ @ @ @ @ 4 hives, 2 years in Beekeeping @ @ St. Catharines, Canada @ @ "I BEE, therefore I am" @ @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 12 Jan 1997 14:22:00 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: James Morton <106074.517@compuserve.com> Subject: Re: Polyurethane for Hives? Will polyurethane finishes/stains work for beehives? Bill miller wrote: >I can't see any problem with using polyurethane finishes/stains on a beehive. > Anything that is a good exterior finish will work. There can be a problem using a finish such as polyurethane that does not allow the passage of water vapour through whe hive wall. In damp conditions (such as in the winter in the UK) moisture can can cause polyurethane finishes to blister and become detached from the wood in places. It is better to use one of the many modern woodstains that allow the wood to breathe. James Morton ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 12 Jan 1997 14:22:04 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: James Morton <106074.517@compuserve.com> Subject: Re: comb trapping > What has happened to common sense? We all know that foraging bees stray into other colonies. >We all know that drones are allowed "free" entrance to strange colonies! >If we have a "breeding" situation as proposed with this setup, how can >we keep mites from parasitizing foraging bees and drones which are not >"trapped?" It isn't a" breeding situation". Any mite attempting to breed in the colony goes has to go into a trap comb (because there is no other unsealed brood in the colony). This is taken away after it is sealed. There is no way that mites can succesfully breed while comb trapping is in use. Common sense tells us that by removing the vast majority of the mites from the colony through comb-trapping, fewer mites remain to parasitize foraging bees and drones. >It is impossible to prevent spread of those mites under any >circunstance. Beekeepers ought to be concerned with erradicating Varroa >and should earnestly avoid any situation which might give "the little >red devils" an edge! Comb trapping does not set out to "prevent spread of those mites" but instead aims to reduce the level of infestation, and with it, the rate of spread , down to manageable proportions. If sensibly practiced it can do just that, as numerous European beekepers who have been managing varroa infested colonies for the last decade or more will testify. James Morton ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 12 Jan 1997 14:30:10 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Gerry Visel Subject: Re: Feeder Bags I used feeder bags last fall, and they worked well. There were a few dead bees that got trapped in the bags, but they took the syrup down very quickly, (like in a day or two for three quarts.) You gotta slit them after they are laid in place, and once slit, can't be moved (easily -- Ya gotta keep them level or they will spill big time, I found!) They took it down so quickly, that it wasn't much of a problem. I don't see how they could be refilled. (How would you refill a holey bag???) Gerry and the other Visels at Visel7@juno.com Winnebago, Illinois, USA On Sun, 12 Jan 1997 09:04:04 -0600 KEN LAWRENCE writes: >Tom Allen wrote: >> >> Thanks for all your comment of plastic feederbags. DO you put yur >slits in before or after installation in hive.?? >> Looking forwadt to your replies > >I have tried the plastic gallon bags and had no problem. I cut >them after I placed them over the frames. I have never seen a dead >bee >inside the bag. I make the slit about 1 1/2 in long. >I have not tried to reuse them but suppose it could be done. >Ken Lawrence > ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 12 Jan 1997 14:09:00 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Eric Abell Subject: Re: comb-trapping (was: foundation in brood nest) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >Lets be clear that this method is a *trap* method. You trap the mites >and remove them. It is *not* a mite breeding programm unless you get it >wrong. Secondly, you have choice about whether to treat the brood and >put it back (using Formic acid say) or discard it as an unecessary ... -- >Dave Black >Blacks Bee Gardens, >Guildford, GU1 4RN. UK. No way I am going to get into the middle of this but you suggest that brood can be treated with Formic acid. It has been my understanding that the acid will not kill the mites beneath the capping. If you have a way to treat the brood with Formic acid would you please elaborate. Eric Eric Abell Gibbons, Alberta Canada (403) 998 3143 eabell@compusmart.ab.ca ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 12 Jan 1997 14:54:47 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "MR WILLIAM L HUGHES JR." Subject: Re: Feeder Bags I used baggie feeders this fall and had great results. The bees take the syrup very fast and store whereas with pail feeders or jars they seem slow in taking the syrup. You place the bags on top and make one to two slits in the bag. I have never found dead bees in the bags. Bill Hughes Bent Holly Honey Farm Brighton, TN USA ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 09:12:09 +1200 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Murray Reid Subject: January Issue of APIS -Forwarded Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Received: from NERVM.NERDC.UFL.EDU by nervm.nerdc.ufl.edu (IBM VM SMTP V2R3) with BSMTP id 6425; Tue, 07 Jan 97 13:31:31 EST Received: from NERVM.NERDC.UFL.EDU (NJE origin LISTSERV@NERVM) by NERVM.NERDC.UFL.EDU (LMail V1.2b/1.8b) with BSMTP id 6843; Tue, 7 Jan 1997 13:31:30 -0500 Received: from NERVM.NERDC.UFL.EDU by NERVM.NERDC.UFL.EDU (LISTSERV release 1.8b) with NJE id 2878 for APIS-L@NERVM.NERDC.UFL.EDU; Tue, 7 Jan 1997 13:31:27 -0500 Received: from NERVM (NJE origin SMTP1@NERVM) by NERVM.NERDC.UFL.EDU (LMail V1.2b/1.8b) with BSMTP id 6839; Tue, 7 Jan 1997 13:31:27 -0500 Received: from gnv.ifas.ufl.edu by nervm.nerdc.ufl.edu (IBM VM SMTP V2R3) with TCP; Tue, 07 Jan 97 13:31:25 EST Received: from GNV.IFAS.UFL.EDU by GNV.IFAS.UFL.EDU (PMDF V5.0-7 #17348) id <01IDXLVH61TS8WXKY2@GNV.IFAS.UFL.EDU> for apis-l@nervm.nerdc.ufl.edu; Tue, 07 Jan 1997 13:31:50 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Reply-To: "Apis Monthly Beekeeping Newsletter, U of Florida" Sender: "Apis Monthly Beekeeping Newsletter, U of Florida" Date: Wed, 08 Jan 1997 06:31:49 +1200 From: "Malcolm (Tom) Sanford, Florida Extension Apiculturist" To: mts@GNV.IFAS.UFL.EDU, APIS-L@nervm.nerdc.ufl.edu Subject: January Issue of APIS Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline Happy New Year=21 There are now 396 electronic subscribers and APIS is=20 beginning its fifteenth year. Here=27s the latest for your review. Tom Sanford FILENAME: JANAPIS.96 =20 =20 Florida Extension Beekeeping Newsletter=20 APIS-Apicultural Information and Issues (ISSN 0889-3764)=20 Volume 15, Number 1, January 1997 HONEY BEES GET A CHRISTMAS GIFT? On December 25, 1996, The New York Times ran on its editorial page an article titled: =22America=27s Endangered Honeybees.=22=20 According to this article, =22The American wild honeybee virtually died out last winter, and in some states, 80 percent of commercial honeybees died out as well.=22 For more details, see June and August 1996 APIS. Thus, the article says, the American honeybee faces the worst threat in its history, one affecting the one-third of the national diet that relies, directly or indirectly, on honeybees for pollination (see March and June 1996 APIS). The problems, the article says, are two mites that invaded the United State in the mid 1980s. This bee disaster has not produced a crop disaster because of diligent beekeeping efforts.=20 However, because of this, it has also not generated much publicity or needed research funds. The article reports that about a dozen researchers are working on the problem in the U.S. Department of Agriculture and at several universities. While Agriculture Department officials say the researchers have the resources they need to solve the problems, the scientists themselves disagree, the article says. It concludes that =24100,000 would make a lot of difference according to these scientists, and that a money crunch on this issue betrays short- term thinking on the part of both the Agriculture Department and commercial fruit and vegetable producers. Finally, the article states that =24100,000 is not an excessive amount to save the honeybees from declining further and possibly taking with them much of what American farmers grow. It now remains for the beekeeping industry to follow up this Christmas gift in The New York Times with a well-organized campaign to obtain the necessary funding. =20 INESCAPABLE CHANGE--THE AUSTRALIAN-FLORIDA CONNECTION An article in Bee World (Vol. 77, No. 1, pp. 26-44) *Honey bee- native bee competition: focal point for environmental change and apicultural response in Australia,* by W. Sugden, R. Thorp and S. Buchman begins with the following statement: *Beekeepers everywhere now find themselves in the midst of complex and inescapable change.* This is not a new trend, according the article, but one that is accelerating worldwide.=20 Past changes included widespread pesticide use and introduction of exotic diseases and bee mites. Ironically, the honey bee itself became a major threat to beekeeping. An introduced population of almost unpredictable Africanized bees literally destroyed organized apiculture in South and Central America, before it could remake itself from its own ashes. This process has been more or less completed in Brazil, but is yet to become a reality in much of the rest of Latin America. For more details on this bee, see the September 1996 APIS. =20 =20 Although important, the article says, the changes related above are not as significant as global deterioration of environmental quality. Honey bees matter here; apiculture itself uses an introduced insect. The honey bee is extremely efficient in gathering resources. As such it is an effective competitor for native non-Apis bees, birds and other species for nutritional resources in the environment. Other possible impacts include competition for nest sites with mammals, birds and other organisms. Honey bees also may be responsible for pollinating and, thus, increasing weed production. The article states that, *Australia is both a paradox and paradigm regarding beekeeping and bee ecology.* Apiculture has grown rapidly over the last 50 years and commercial pollination may contribute as much as =244 billion to the economy. During the same time period, however, alteration, fragmentation and loss of habitat have also resulted in a huge reduction of the biological diversity found on the continent, much in the native eucalyptus forests, known for their nectar production. Many of these lands have come under government control for various reasons.=20 According to the article, this situation has caused contentious relations between beekeepers who desire to use this resource, conservationists, scientists and governmental resource managers (see March 1996 APIS). =20 The Australian situation is not unique. For many years, Florida beekeepers have applied to keep bees on publicly managed lands.=20 They have been for the most part successful. However, similar to Australia, there are many reasons for governmental land managers to take a conservative, go-slow approach in the Sunshine State.=20 This translates into resistance to introduction of beekeeping into state or national preserves and parks.=20 Florida, like Australia, was considered a *beekeeping paradise* in the early 1900s. Many old-timers could fondly speak of year- around bumper crops of honey from Sebring southward. Frank Robinson, formerly at the University of Florida (see April 1985 APIS), reported so in =22Relationship of Melaleuca to Beekeeping,=22 Proceedings of Melaleuca Symposium, Florida Division of Forestry, September 23-24, 1980. Unfortunately, Mr. Robinson concluded, this bee pasture has given way to large-scale commercial agriculture, improved pastures, and highway and urban development. On the other hand, the introduced plant, Melaleuca quinquenervia, has helped beekeeping overcome much of this loss, and is responsible for supporting almost two-thirds (221,000) of Florida=27s colonies in 1979. =20 Melaleuca now, however, is considered a =22noxious weed=22 under Chapter 5B-57 Rules of the Department of Agriculture and Consumer Services Division of Plant Industry. It is, therefore, unlawful to introduce, possess, move or release either it or Brazilian pepper (Shinus terebinthifolius) without a permit. Both nectar- producing plants were recently chosen as two of the state=27s worst offenders at a meeting titled: =22Building Partnerships to Control Invasive Plants on Public and Private Lands in Florida,=22 according to the Florida Farm Bureau=27s (FFB) issue brief by Kevin Morgan. =20 The FFB=27s FloridAgriculture (November 1996) contains a detailed article on the invasive plant problem, considered to be one of Florida=27s worst environmental problems. Melaleuca and Brazilian pepper now occupy almost 1.2 million acres of public land. The FFB supports the development of public-private partnerships to aid private landowners in voluntary eradication programs in conjunction with programs on public lands. According to Dr. Gary Buckingham, a United States Department of Agriculture scientist quoted in the article, Florida now has a crisis in growth of exotic species. Of all invasive plants, Melaleuca poses the greatest threat, according to =22Melaleuca Management Plan for Florida,=22 published by the Exotic Pest Council and edited by F. Laroche, April 1994.=20 This document proposes an integrated management philosophy, including use of physical, chemical and biological control to eliminate this plant. It acknowledges that eradication is not realistic and concludes the success of the program will probably depend on biological control agents introduced from Australia.=20 One, a weevil, Oxyops vitiosa, should be released shortly. =20 The writing is on the wall. It is illegal to propagate Melaleuca and a major control program is underway. The same is true for Brazilian pepper. Although beekeepers can fight these changes, this probably will not be in their best interests. One colleague here at the University of Florida urges apiculturists to embrace biological control. This approach provides an alternative to chemical control which is much more devastating on a short-term basis. Biological control results in a more honey-bee-favorable biological system and is not expected to result in total eradication of plants. It is also long-term, providing a gradual phase out of nectar resources that beekeepers in areas most affected can acclimate to. =20 As the Bee World article says: =22The implications are that beekeepers will have to adapt to a rapidly changing world.=20 Native bees, birds and other animals, and efforts to conserve them are not to blame, but are merely the most obvious problematic aspect of an emerging modern view of apiculture.=20 This view is utilitarian and environmental, and runs against the romantic vision of the honey bee as a special, almost mysterious creature above the laws of nature and whose sole purpose is to serve humans (see April and July 1996 APIS). It also runs against the vision of apiculture as a strictly beneficial or at least benign enterprise.=22 The article recommends beekeepers do the following in working together with scientists, land managers and others to develop cooperative and proactive responses to urgent environmental problems: 1. Continue to call for careful evaluation of publicly managed land as possible apiary locations, while at the same time re- evaluating the honey bee=27s contribution to the environment. 2. Help revitalize public education by reaching out to schools electronically and through live demonstrations, video productions and other means. 3. Promote beekeeping and apicultural products through organizations like the National Honey Board and Australia=27s Honeybee Research and Development Council. 4. Work with local communities to devise new ways of using industrial, urban and reclaimed landscapes as bee forage, and help design and implement =22beekeeping reserves=22 as has been done in Australia. In summary, the article says, beekeepers must continue to educate themselves regarding how beekeeping relates to human activities on the globe. Perhaps the best way to keep up is to better communicate their experiences with counterparts in the rest of the world. With the rise of the Internet, this is already in progress (see July and October 1996 APIS) . =20 The article concludes that beekeepers should be open to new technology such as using alternative pollinators, and be prepared to turn change into opportunity. This is not so farfetched with reference to Melaleuca. According to a March 1989 (Vol. 2 No. 40) issue of New Times: Miami=27s News and Arts Weekly, quoting Julia Morton, University of Miami biologist, Florida beekeepers complained about Melaleuca in the 1950s, fearing their livelihoods would be affected by the strong-smelling and -tasting nectar. By the 1970s, however, beekeepers had developed a bakery market for the honey and out-of-staters had begun to winter increasing numbers of colonies near Melaleuca stands as an alternative to the then-tradition of feeding sugar for survival in more temperate areas. =20 Although Melaleuca has now become a necessary plant for beekeeping survival as many know it, inescapable change is on the horizon to control the spread of this and other plants. Like other events in modern beekeeping, this is not an abnormal course of affairs, for neither the cultural nor biological world are ever static. As stated above, it remains for beekeepers to look for and objectively evaluate inevitable changes as they occur, and deal with them in a creative manner. After all, this is exactly what their honey bee charges themselves have done for millennia. =20 OILS OF ESSENCE The November-December 1996 Georgia Bee Letter, published by Dr. Keith Delaplane, University of Georgia, contains some further information on essential oils and Varroa control (see October and December 1996 APIS). Powdered thymol (Italy), orangum (Israel), eucalyptol and menthol (Switzerland) all resulted in lower mite populations. Unfortunately, there are no U.S. studies to corroborate these. Although they show promise, there are problems with bee agitation and mortality at high doses, and failure to control mites at low temperatures. Dr. Delaplane reports that the EPA has announced deregulation of certain pesticides, including soybean oil and thyme/thyme oil.=20 This is good news for those using soybean oil patties and thyme oil. However, the European product Apilife VAR (R), which has thyme oil and has shown good promise in mite control, also contains eucalyptol and menthol, which remain on the regulated list. This makes registration of that product necessary, and at best, a long shot. In the meantime Apistan (R), menthol and oil patties all work in mite control and formic acid approval is on the horizon. =20 Therefore, Dr. Delaplane concludes, we should take a wait-and-see approach on materials that are better classified as =22oils of essence.=22 According to food scientists, essential oils indicate they are =22necessary=22 in an organism=27s nutrition, something we cannot say about those oils currently used in mite control. =20 Malcolm T. Sanford=20 Bldg 970, Box 110620 University of Florida=20 Gainesville, FL 32611-0620=20 Phone (904) 392-1801, Ext. 143=20 FAX: 904-392-0190=20 INTERNET Address: MTS=40GNV.IFAS.UFL.EDU APIS on the World Wide Web-- http://gnv.ifas.ufl.edu/=7Eentweb/APIS/APIS.htm=20 Copyright (c) M.T. Sanford 1996 =22All Rights Reserved=22* ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 12 Jan 1997 16:28:57 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "James C. King" Subject: Re: BEE-L Digest - 8 Jan 1997 to 9 Jan 1997 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > >Date: Wed, 8 Jan 1997 22:49:05 -0600 >From: Garrett Dodds >Subject: Pierco Plastic Frames and Foundation > >Hi, > >I was wondering if anyone has used the Pierco Plastic Frames and >Foundation? What are their pros and cons? How are they compared to wooden >frames? > I think that one pro of using Pierco is the labor reduction vs wood frame assembly, wiring and foundation insertion. Another is the fact that the bees use these frame well - I often see brood in Pierco frames side to side and top to bottom. Con is cost and the fact that bees build burr comb on top of the plastic frames. I have some Pierco frames mixed in my outfit and anytime I am attempting to separate two brood chambers and I find them badly stuck together, it is because there are one or more Pierco frames in the bottom brood chamber that the bees have connected to the bottom frames of the upper chamber with burr comb. This is enough of a problem for me that I don't plan to purchase more. BTW, this burr comb thing is not related to the wrong size space between the brood chambers. Side by side, with wood no burr comb, but with plastic, always burr comb. Jim King, Rieglesville, PA ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 12 Jan 1997 15:42:26 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Eric Abell Subject: Re: Chalkbrood and Varroa Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >Using drone comb to trap and reduce mites can work but obviously has to be >very efficienly managed or else too many drones and thousands of mites are >released into the hive! But I don't like the idea because I think it will >be putting environmental pressure onto the mites for the selection of those >mites that 'prefer' worker brood. However I don't understand the biological >interactions well enough to work out if that would be even more harmful to >beekeeping. Can anyone offer a suggestion? Glyn, I am not an expert and I have never tried this method of traping mites. However, I do not see how it will introduce excess drones, or thousands of mites or select for worker brood. The method, as I understand it, is to confine the queen so that all brood can be disposed of. She will be laying in any event and the mites will be entering cells in any event. The only negative I can see is that in destroying brood, there will be fewer bees emerging in a few weeks. If I have missed something, I hope someone will let me know. Eric Eric Abell Gibbons, Alberta Canada (403) 998 3143 eabell@compusmart.ab.ca ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 12 Jan 1997 15:03:37 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Peter Wilson Subject: Re: Plastic frames and foundation In-Reply-To: <199701122128.QAA23924@mail.enter.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII An article in BEE BIZ , a relatively new magazine "for the commercial beekeeper" August 1995, by Jean-Pierre Chapleau, St Adrien, Quebec entitled " PLASTIC FRAMES-GADGETS OR TECHNOLOGY?" concludes with a 12 year cost of production analysis using wood/beeswax foundation; plastic frames and wood/plastic. Figures given are $4.08; $1.83 and $1.99 respectively. Peter Wilson Edmonton, Alberta, Canada email: pjwilson@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 12 Jan 1997 13:17:59 -0900 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Tom Elliott Subject: Re: foundation in brood nest MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >because the foundation did not > get drawn or because the bees filled the comb in process with honey before > the comb was finished enough for the queen to get to it. I was interested in this comment, because when the queen is in the "mood" comb depth won't stop her from laying. I have hade queens lay in foundation drawn less than an an eighth of an inch (about 3 mm). Tom elliott ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 12 Jan 1997 16:50:26 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: kuehn john c Subject: Re: BEE-L Digest - 8 Jan 1997 to 9 Jan 1997 In-Reply-To: <199701122128.QAA23924@mail.enter.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII I have noticed this too, over the years. But, I believe Pierco has remodeled their frame, and perhaps the problem has been fixed. It can't be the plastic, but a violation of the bee space dimension. Jack Kuehn, University of Illinois Bee lab On Sun, 12 Jan 1997, James C. King wrote: > > > >Date: Wed, 8 Jan 1997 22:49:05 -0600 > >From: Garrett Dodds > >Subject: Pierco Plastic Frames and Foundation > > > >Hi, > > > >I was wondering if anyone has used the Pierco Plastic Frames and > >Foundation? What are their pros and cons? How are they compared to wooden > >frames? > > > > I think that one pro of using Pierco is the labor reduction vs wood frame > assembly, wiring and foundation insertion. Another is the fact that the > bees use these frame well - I often see brood in Pierco frames side to side > and top to bottom. Con is cost and the fact that bees build burr comb on > top of the plastic frames. I have some Pierco frames mixed in my outfit > and anytime I am attempting to separate two brood chambers and I find them > badly stuck together, it is because there are one or more Pierco frames in > the bottom brood chamber that the bees have connected to the bottom frames > of the upper chamber with burr comb. This is enough of a problem for me > that I don't plan to purchase more. BTW, this burr comb thing is not > related to the wrong size space between the brood chambers. Side by side, > with wood no burr comb, but with plastic, always burr comb. > > Jim King, Rieglesville, PA > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 00:41:51 +0000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Rick Grossman Subject: Re: foundation in brood nest Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Tom et al, While I have seen queens lay also in shallow foundation, I have more often (98 out of 100?) found that if the nectar is flowing, there will be honey put in the foundation being drawn out before (or instead of) the queen using it to lay eggs. I have also seen a queen ignore shallow foundation even with no honey in it if she is not at the height of brood production. Rick Grossman western Oregon USA >>because the foundation did not >> get drawn or because the bees filled the comb in process with honey >before >> the comb was finished enough for the queen to get to it. > >I was interested in this comment, because when the queen is in the "mood" >comb depth won't stop her from laying. I have hade queens lay in >foundation drawn less than an an eighth of an inch (about 3 mm). > >Tom elliott > ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 12 Jan 1997 19:48:06 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Brian G. Merrill" Subject: Re: Feeder Bags Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >Thanks for all your comment of plastic feederbags. > I tried a few bag feeders this fall inside empty supers. I thought, however that the cost of zip-lock bags was a bit high if this was going to be an ongoing thing. I had access to some trashcan liners and so I used them. I used the 4 gallon size. While this may seem large, I found I could put in about a gallon of syrup and then had enough bag left to tie a knot in the top. The material is very thin and were easily torn, but with using about 200, I only had to redo about 5. And the cost was good...2000 bags for under $15.00 (US dollars). Brian G. Merrill bmerrill@ns.moran.com Ellie Bee Apiaries 61 Calumet St. Depew, NY 14043 USA ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 12 Jan 1997 19:50:14 -0800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Tim Townsend Organization: TPLR Honey Farms Subject: Re: Poly for Hives? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=euc-kr Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit It is > better to use one of the many modern woodstains that allow the wood to > breathe. > > James MortonOr you can dip which will seal inside and out, no blistering, and probably no breathing. Tim Townsend Stony Plain AB Canada ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 12 Jan 1997 23:05:06 -0600 Reply-To: dvisrael@earthlink.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Donald V Israel Subject: Re: Kenya Top Bar Hives MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit kuehn john c wrote: > > The November APIS contained an article about KTBH and their advantages in > some situations. We are attracted to the idea of using them to get quick > efficient access to brood nests without alot of lifting, for use in > breeding and selection. If any of you are using them and have designs or > practical suggestions, please let me know. Has anyone made frames with > end and bottom bars for the KTBH? Jack Kuehn, University of Illinois bee lab I have plans from BEE-L I got a couple of weeks ago. I am building my first one now. Please send surface mail address and I'll send you a copy. Don in NC ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 12 Jan 1997 23:15:25 +-200 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: baxter YAZBEK Subject: Re: comb-trapping (was: foundation in brood nest) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="---- =_NextPart_000_01BC00E0.11120840" ------ =_NextPart_000_01BC00E0.11120840 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Eric Abell wrote >No way I am going to get into the middle of this but you suggest that = brood >can be treated with Formic acid. It has been my understanding that the = acid >will not kill the mites beneath the capping. If you have a way to = treat the >brood with Formic acid would you please elaborate. we have had the mite for more than 14 years now. and to my knowledge = formic acid is one of the few chemicals that kills the mites inside = capped brood cells. evaporiting formic acid can be done with the = nassenheider evoporator or you can simply dip a piece of thick paper in = the formic acid and place on top of the supper to be treated. Our experience tells that the quantity to be used largely depends on the = temperature. Baxter Yazbek beirut Lebanon - Middle east fax 961.1.890085 baxter@cyberia.net.lb ------ =_NextPart_000_01BC00E0.11120840 Content-Type: application/ms-tnef Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 eJ8+IikVAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA6AQAAAAAAADsAAENgAQAAgAAAAIAAgABBJAG ADABAAABAAAADAAAAAMAADADAAAACwAPDgAAAAACAf8PAQAAAE8AAAAAAAAAgSsfpL6jEBmdbgDd AQ9UAgAAAABEaXNjdXNzaW9uIG9mIEJlZSBCaW9sb2d5AFNNVFAAQkVFLUxAQ05TSUJNLkFMQkFO WS5FRFUAAB4AAjABAAAABQAAAFNNVFAAAAAAHgADMAEAAAAYAAAAQkVFLUxAQ05TSUJNLkFMQkFO WS5FRFUAAwAVDAEAAAADAP4PBgAAAB4AATABAAAAHAAAACdEaXNjdXNzaW9uIG9mIEJlZSBCaW9s b2d5JwACAQswAQAAAB0AAABTTVRQOkJFRS1MQENOU0lCTS5BTEJBTlkuRURVAAAAAAMAADkAAAAA CwBAOgEAAAACAfYPAQAAAAQAAAAAAAADBjUBCIAHABgAAABJUE0uTWljcm9zb2Z0IE1haWwuTm90 ZQAxCAEEgAEAMgAAAFJFOiBjb21iLXRyYXBwaW5nICh3YXM6IGZvdW5kYXRpb24gaW4gYnJvb2Qg bmVzdCkAeBEBBYADAA4AAADNBwEADAAXAA8AGQAAACABASCAAwAOAAAAzQcBAAwAFwABABIAAAAL AQEJgAEAIQAAADZCRERGNTczQ0U2Q0QwMTFCRDRBNDQ0NTUzNTQwMDAwABkHAQOQBgAkBQAAEgAA AAsAIwAAAAAAAwAmAAAAAAALACkAAAAAAAMANgAAAAAAQAA5AECZj7rNALwBHgBwAAEAAAAyAAAA UkU6IGNvbWItdHJhcHBpbmcgKHdhczogZm91bmRhdGlvbiBpbiBicm9vZCBuZXN0KQAAAAIBcQAB AAAAFgAAAAG8AM26h3P13WxszhHQvUpERVNUAAAAAB4AHgwBAAAABQAAAFNNVFAAAAAAHgAfDAEA AAAWAAAAYmF4dGVyQGN5YmVyaWEubmV0LmxiAAAAAwAGEE8OOBEDAAcQggIAAB4ACBABAAAAZQAA AEVSSUNBQkVMTFdST1RFTk9XQVlJQU1HT0lOR1RPR0VUSU5UT1RIRU1JRERMRU9GVEhJU0JVVFlP VVNVR0dFU1RUSEFUQlJPT0RDQU5CRVRSRUFURURXSVRIRk9STUlDQUNJREkAAAAAAgEJEAEAAACL AwAAhwMAAPwGAABMWkZ1AaNBn/8ACgEPAhUCqAXrAoMAUALyCQIAY2gKwHNldDL1AAAqAuFhB4AG AAbDAoAsTVQShwHxMgIAYmnGZACgERsxNzgPzwIA7jMC5AcTAoM0FA8VFBH4MxcVBxMgKAcQAaBp Y7opAoB9CoAIzwnZOxwfeDI1NQKACoENsQtgbjBnMTAzFqALA2x08nIKsVxxHAALVB/hEXBrFoML 8nADYHQFkAVARcUFEGMXAGJlbCBvC+PiYwBAICB3IdIKix/l8GxpMzYN8CBeF7Ej9iY+Iu8hik5v JHBheYggSSASUCBnbwuAqGcgdCoQZxHAIAuAKSshdGgScG0X8GRsGRJwb2Yr0QQAIGJ1hQVAeQhg IHN1ZytQ1nMFQCvgYQVAYgNgBHDfCocmvyfPKN8FQGMDkSKgXysQHCAuMAmAJHBpK+AgvkYFsCwg InAA0BfwLiRgfkkFQBGALPEJ4SwQKlB1/m4EgS3gAHAYACryLiIr4n80Qi6/L88w3yGZA/AiwCDy biHgIGs7QivkIfA1Ap5uMyEzsCviMpBwcCrh7zSCLKAtUhGAdjbxKiMrsv8zEivSJN8l7zgvOT8h XS5j9zN/JHAIYGxFYC1SC1AzIL0RsCAisAGgBbAzMS5DX/0L8SAKhTdfQlgkcBJwPoP3EYBFYDwW IAIQBcAEYBwg8y4CA6AxNC1AMyARoDtx3nc0gDYRKxI1cWtOgSxg/mQrUE0CRgcs4QIgLHVM8fsH 0RFwZTQBB0AEIC4TO8L/UnI8NguAAJANsD1jM1FFJMpjIrFzNIFldj2ABbDvM5Aq4lAaMpVkUQIz gyvifxJABBAJ8CvwVBEFwFWgb39V0S4wBbEFsS1SMpIAkG33C1AqUBgAcD7BPaAFkCx2/GNrRyA9 gFkRC4BRZEXp/07SC1FbolzRWWBRNi2QVHHfBcArITLYSD9JSk8IcEeQ9nhcgQiQbluhIfAizktV s1J1K+JxdQBwVhB0PxPdMtF1EbBFYAtgcitQWuL+ZVSANbBQ4ivTIfBawASQHy4wCHBIL0k/CsFC YXjjIfAFwFlhegwwY89qQZxla2kvajkioGlyLSHYTGViAHBekS0F0ACgb2wfakEsQ0dRdG1/ajlm h2tgSm9qIzk2MS51sMA4OTAwODVyT26K8WtjQGN5dE9qMiKgByHiLjzQdC5sa/1qDBtBAgB8sAAD ABAQAAAAAAMAERAAAAAAQAAHMCC3m8HLALwBQAAIMCC3m8HLALwBHgA9AAEAAAAFAAAAUkU6IAAA AABSjA== ------ =_NextPart_000_01BC00E0.11120840-- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 06:32:02 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Trevor Weatherhead Subject: Re: January Apis As Murray Reid has posted the January Apis on Bee-L, I thought all those on Bee-L should also see what I had written to Apis so that those on Bee-L will not have wrong information. >A correction needs to be made to one of the points in the paper by Sugden et >al. It says:- >"3. Promote beekeeping and apicultural products through organisations like the >National Honey Board and Australia's Honeybee Research and Development Council" >The Honeybee Research and Development Council is now called the Honeybee >Research and Development Committee (HBRDC). Please don't ask me why unless >you have a lot of spare time. I digress. >The HBRDC does not promote beekeeping or apicultural products. It is set up >under Government legislation to fund Research and Development (R&D). There is >no charter to promote the industry or apicultural products. >Basically, statutory levies are collected on honey sales, Australia wide, and >this money can only be used to fund R&D. The money spent on R&D, and not >administration, is matched at the present time $ for $ by the Australian >Government. >Australia did have a body to fund industry and product promotion but that no >longer exists. >Trevor Weatherhead >AUSTRALIA ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 11:10:31 +0000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Dave Black Subject: Chalkbrood Comments: To: beeworks@muskoka.net In-Reply-To: <199701102021.PAA00562@segwun.muskoka.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 In message <199701102021.PAA00562@segwun.muskoka.net>, David Eyre writes > 2 Why do we requeen, when it has been proved that it is not genetic. >Comments? Whether it is genetic or not I view requeening in this instance as 'another shake of the dice'. If it is genetic we get another chance of getting it 'right'. If its not the improvement in the colony's brood production and general vigour may do the trick. -- Dave Black Blacks Bee Gardens, Guildford, GU1 4RN. UK. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 13:12:04 +0000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Dave Black Subject: Varroa & Drone Trapping In-Reply-To: <199701102115.VAA04373@hermes.zynet.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 In message <199701102115.VAA04373@hermes.zynet.net>, Glyn Davies writes >Using drone comb to trap and reduce mites can work but obviously has to be >very efficienly managed or else too many drones and thousands of mites are >released into the hive! True, but it's only the timing that's crucial as I said in another post. Otherwise it's not difficult. > But I don't like the idea because I think it will >be putting environmental pressure onto the mites for the selection of those >mites that 'prefer' worker brood. However I don't understand the biological >interactions well enough to work out if that would be even more harmful to >beekeeping. Can anyone offer a suggestion? Yes I think this selection is possible but there are some 'howevers'. To me the experience in Europe (that includes us BTW ;-)) shows that it is important that more than one control is used, partly because of this problem of selecting resistant or tolerant strains and partly because of the way we have to fit management to the bee's natural cycle. So, if we were to select for worker prefering mites with this one another control (trap comb, pyrethroid or whatever) would get them too. I would argue against 'the magic bullet' in this regard ! The second however has to do with what makes Varroa a 'pest' and this is it's ability to increase exponentially its population. Were it merely to *maintain* its numbers we would'nt be so worried. Now the key to this increase seems to be its use of drone brood. On average in worker if I remember rightly only one viable adult is produced, in drone its slightly more than two. So, if we selected mites that 'prefer' worker brood far from being harmfull it might (ha ha) do us a favour. -- Dave Black Blacks Bee Gardens, Guildford, GU1 4RN. UK. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 10:55:03 +0000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Dave Black Subject: Chalkbrood Comments: To: allend@internode.net In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 In message , Allen Dick writes > While it seems I do recall more chalkbrood >around the outer edges, it seems to me that chalkbrood can as easily >be found in the centre of the middle brood comb. Yup. What I've never understood is why it can be dotted around affecting individual larvae. Surely if its because you've chilled the brood (or upped the humidity) the whole patch on the whole comb will be spoilt ? Isn't more likely the bees missed cleaning the spores off that particular larva ? -- Dave Black Blacks Bee Gardens, Guildford, GU1 4RN. UK. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 09:18:47 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Egon Skovmose Organization: Calgary Free-Net Subject: Pasteurizing honey. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Hi. A friend have asked be following: At what temp. and time is natural honey pasteurized? Are you aware of any regulations on the subject. If so he would like to know where and how to get them. Egon ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 22:39:39 -0800 Reply-To: "bjhensel@metro.net"@metro.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: BRIAN HENSEL <"bjhensel@metro.net"@metro.net> Subject: Re: NOSEMA MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi everyone. Can someone help me with a problem I am having with my hive? It seems due to the bad weather we just got here in California, my bee's have come down with what I think is Nosema. This hive has had a very hard life. Last summer I discovered it. It was a feral colony that was almost wiped out by a total varroa infestation. I was able to get rid of the mites, but the hive suffered greatly. The brood emerged as sick little bee's with deformed wings. The colony died off so quickly that allot of the brood died from the lack of bee's to keep them warm. The queen was also badly impacted. I fed them, and gradually they started to come back. I requeened, and treated them with terramycin. By the time I got all of this accomplished, I treated with fumidil b. The instructions state that the hive should get two gallons of the syrup, however the bee's at that time would only take about 2 quarts. Now after all this rain they were cooped up in their hive for weeks, and I have found little brown trails on the front entrance and sides of the hive. I also saw many bee's crawling around in front of the hive unable to fly. They will climb up the surrounding brush to die. I have put their feeder back on with treated syrup. Everything I have been able to find in books and the Internet say to use Fumidil B. for the prevention of Nosema, but nothing about what to do when they have Nosema. The hive has ventilation holes, but I noticed some of the combs where they have stored pollen, have a white mold growing over it. I have removed some of the frames, afraid that this might be the source of the Nosema. Some of the frames of capped honey stores have also a coating very thin of some white mold. I have wiped lightly across these frames, but I don't want to remove them, because I'm afraid of leaving them with not enough honey to make it through the rest of the winter. If anybody can give me some tips on what I can do to get rid of the Nosema problem I would be grateful. I think that they just did not get enough Fumidil B. What can I do if they won't take enough syrup? Is it OK to mix Fumidil B. with grease patties? THANK YOU VERY MUCH BRIAN HENSEL bjhensel@metro.net Santa Rosa, California ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 12 Jan 1997 10:32:28 -0500 Reply-To: dronebee@norfolk.infi.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Dr. Pedro Rodriguez" Organization: InfiNet Subject: Re: Feeder Bags MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit bee-l@cnsibm.albany.edu wrote: > > Tom Allen wrote: > > > > Thanks for all your comment of plastic feederbags. DO you put yur slits in before or after installation in hive.?? > > Looking forwadt to your replies > > I have tried the plastic gallon bags and had no problem. I cut > them after I placed them over the frames. I have never seen a dead bee > snip > Ken Lawrence Hello fellow beekeepers: I use inverted wide-mouth plastic gallon jugs. In general they work well for me except that I must keep checking up on them because the bees have a tendency to seal the pin holes on the lid and eventually block the flow of liquid. I thought that I might thwart their intent by placing the jugs on the side with a lengthwise slit on them. It worked well while there was fluid comming out, but once the fluid level reached the slit the little conivers sealed that too. I would appreciate if Allen reminds me during the AFB conference, so that he can demonstrate to me his "bag" feeding method. Also input from other beekeepers on the subject would be appreciated. Regards. Dr. Pedro Rodriguez Virginia Beach, Virginia USA ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 12 Jan 1997 15:27:20 -0500 Reply-To: dronebee@norfolk.infi.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Dr. Pedro Rodriguez" Organization: InfiNet Subject: Re: comb trapping MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit bee-l@cnsibm.albany.edu wrote: > > > What has happened to common sense? We all know that foraging bees stray > into other colonies. > >We all know that drones are allowed "free" entrance to strange colonies! > >If we have a "breeding" situation as proposed with this setup, how can > >we keep mites from parasitizing foraging bees and drones which are not > >"trapped?" >snip >> > > Comb trapping does not set out to "prevent spread of those mites" but > instead aims to reduce the level of infestation, and with it, the rate of spread , down to manageable proportions. If sensibly practiced it can do> just that, as numerous European beekepers who have been managing varroa > infested colonies for the la > > James Morton Dear Mr. Morton and other fellow beekeepers: I am not knocking the "comb-trapping" program. My concern is that working with conditions that permit honey bee mites to leave the colony in which they are located and be transferred (via drones and foraging bees) to other colonies which might be Varroa-free is SIMPLY ASKING FOR TROUBLE. I became initiated with the Varroa struggle in Europe. If you study the spread of Varroa mites through the Eastern European countries and then onto France and the Iberian pennninsula, you will have to agree with me that relaxed management conditions are responsible for the magnitude of spread of those mites. I know, I was there! You might claim that European beekeepers did not know about Varroa. But that wont be a valid argument, because European beekeepers knew about tracheal mites and what became known as the Isle of Wight mite disease. I reiterate, comb-trapping" might be influential in eliminating a number of mites from the colonies where this practice is employed but it also serves as a focus of infestation for Varroa-free colonies. And I hope that the defenders of this "practice" will not argue that spread of the mites is limited to local conditions because it is not. All you have to do is to review the history of their travel through Europe when not even the mighty Alps could contain their progress. My point again is, ERRADICATION is the best management technique to employ against Varroa mites. Regards. Dr. Pedro Rodriguez Virginia Beach, USA ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 13:33:01 +0100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Max.Watkins@sandoz.com Subject: Re[2]: Apistan residue Comments: To: owner-bee-l@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU Depends on the law of the particular country but generally means to bury in official landfill sites, away from watercourses OR destroyed by burning in a (commercial) incinerator (NOT on an open fire or in a bin - the temperature isn't high enough). In some countries there are collection & disposal shemes for old used strips run by the distributor or through the government. Check with your distributor or local agent. Max ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Re: Apistan residue Author: owner-bee-l@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU at INTERNET1 Date: 1/12/97 6:04 AM on the label of the Apistan strips there is the frequently used term "dispose of properly". What is proper disposal of Apistan.Some one please advise. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 08:10:07 -0700 Reply-To: allend@internode.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Allen Dick Organization: The Beekeepers Subject: Re: comb trapping MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT > My point again is, ERRADICATION is the best management technique to > employ against Varroa mites. I think this statement finally clarifies the point being made. I understand this to mean *zero* tolerance, which is at odds with all current practices! Even use of Apistan leaves a few mites, and by some arguments this remainder is necessarily far from zero in order to avoid rapid development of fluvalinate resistance. (We must rememver that varroa is pretty inbred due to the females breeding only with their own brothers except in the case where several gravid females enter a cell. Fascinating... I take this a hint that Dr. Pedro's method takes no prisoners... Regards Allen W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper VE6CFK RR#1, Swalwell, Alberta Canada T0M 1Y0 Internet:dicka@cuug.ab.ca & allend@internode.net Honey. Bees, & Art ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 08:10:07 -0700 Reply-To: allend@internode.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Allen Dick Organization: The Beekeepers Subject: Re: Feeder Bags MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT > I would appreciate if Allen reminds me during the AFB conference, > so that he can demonstrate to me his "bag" feeding method. Also > input from other beekeepers on the subject would be appreciated. Several people have assumed that the bag feeding method is one I recommended. Actually I have never used it, although I have been familiar with it for years and consider it quite ingenious. I think Frank H. may have been an original proponent of the method, although I am not sure. The quote function on these mail programs often confuse the original author, so maybe that is what happened here. Regards Allen W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper VE6CFK RR#1, Swalwell, Alberta Canada T0M 1Y0 Internet:dicka@cuug.ab.ca & allend@internode.net Honey. Bees, & Art ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 14:49:17 +0000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Dave Black Subject: comb-trapping and formic acid Comments: To: beeworks@muskoka.net In-Reply-To: <199701102021.PAA00559@segwun.muskoka.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 In message <199701102021.PAA00559@segwun.muskoka.net>, David Eyre writes re Dave Black's comment;- "...you have choice about whether to treat the brood and put it back (using Formic acid say) or discard it..." >perhaps it might be a good idea if >the author wrote out this new method (using Formic Acid) it's a new one on >me. > Even better, if you can spare the time David, could you write up both >methods so that we (over here) can compare both. Please!!! I can't claim to be the author, this is all quite well documented stuff so I'll be as brief as I can and avoid some of nuances that always arise. I suspect a lot of you know all this so forgive me. The two methods I wanted to distinguish between were Drone Trapping and Trap Comb. In the former early in the bee's cycle we exploit the need to raise drones and the mites preference to reproduce in drone comb. At the edge of the brood nest we place drone foundation or better drone comb to encourge the queen to lay drone eggs there and nowhere else. The mites should move off the adult bee into the cells to breed some 48hours before the bees cap it. Once the cells are capped and the mite is trapped inside we then take out the drone comb and destroy it mites and all. Often this is done by freezing so that we can re-use the comb and avoid the delay due to waiting for the foundation to be drawn. This is quite easy and pretty benign and you only have to be around to remove the sealed pupae on the right day, what you can do is to use a pair of frames one either side and remove one on one week and the other the next. In trap comb methods you confine the queen with a specially made excluder so she lays on one frame or frames so that all the larvae will be the same optimal age. With all other larvae removed the mites have no choice but to reproduce in these cells, fast. As James pointed out worker comb is used and its usually timed so that the loss of the larvae doesn't matter. The capped cells are removed and often destroyed. This is a little more involved especially as you are risking your labour force and more supervision is needed. If you have a lot of time you can avoid destroying the brood and treat it instead. A variant of the trap comb method combines it with artificial swarm making, splits or nucleus formation where the bees and brood become separate for a while and can thus be treated differently and separately. Nuclei are treated with formic acid which can penetrate the porous brood cappings and kill the mite in the developing larvae. Dosage can be lower than for a whole colony treatment (10ml of 60% solution) on plates or freely evaporated depending on your preference, with the smaller quantity of flying bees and the presence of brood discouraging the bees from absconding during treatment. (And we've had enough Formic acid debates thankyou). In this way the young larvae can be preserved but treatment must occur before the queen emerges. Alternatively the nucleus can be left to raise its new queen which will commence laying in two to three weeks when all the workers should have emerged. With the queen effectively confined and laying on a few frames and with some natural mortality of the phoretic mites you can consider removing and destroying (or treating) the first sealed frame(s) of brood. The whole nucleus is being used as a trap comb for female mites anxious to breed in the first sealed cells. The nucleus must be treated somehow within five or six days of the queen laying or the mites will be protected on the sealed cells once more and begin to breed. It would be wise to plan to replace with the (laying) queen of your choice after treatment especially if you plan to use one of the organic acids which might cause queen failure for one reason or another.(Maybe you unite onto the parent colony..). Sealed trap combs are treated in much the same way, they are collected from the parent colonies and placed into an insulated (polystyrene) box (keeps 'em warm, there's no bees). When the box is full the acid plate is put on top, the lid sealed on and they're left for a few hours. Then take them out and give them back to the colonies. There are no doubts about the efficacy of these proceedures. There are a lot of things I don't like, like the effort involved, (but don't exagerate) the skill (trap combs are not for beginners) and so on. If anyone really wants a step by step description, rather than a discussion, I can refer them to the literature. I perceive the success of these types of controls to be not as good as current chemical controls but better than essential oils have so far proved. *All* the controls have problems, what's that guy say "test everything, hold onto the good." How true. Anyway, someone's bound to come up with a better idea :-) Sorry if the post's a bit long or repeats what you experts already know, I'm still feeling my way. -- Dave Black Blacks Bee Gardens, Guildford, GU1 4RN. UK. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 10:57:10 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Janet Montgomery & Dan Veilleux Subject: Re: Chalkbrood Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" A Snip>>>>Yup. What I've never understood is why it can be dotted around affecting >individual larvae. Surely if its because you've chilled the brood (or >upped the humidity) the whole patch on the whole comb will be spoilt ? >Isn't more likely the bees missed cleaning the spores off that >particular larva ? > - >Dave Black >Blacks Bee Gardens, >Guildford, GU1 4RN. UK. > > If chilling is one of the main factors, especially if we are to blame, I wonder if those cells still uncapped or in a younger development stage may be more sensitive to the cold. Dan Veilleux COLUMBUS, OHIO USA Janet Montgomery 104 Fallis Road Columbus, Ohio 43214-3724 Home: (614) 784-8334 FAX: (614) 268-3107 E-mail: MONTVEIL@IWAYNET.NET ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 07:56:20 PST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jim Moore DTN276-9448 ogo1/e17 508-496-9448 Subject: Re: Feeder Bags One key advantage I have found in feeder bags over inverted bottles is less spillage. When the daily temperature differential is great, cool/cold in the morning, sunny warm day, the air inside the bottle/pail expands, pumping out syrup. This is the weather patter during Spring and Fall feeding. You can usally see it running out the entrance early in the morning. As the bottle become less full and the volume of air increases the amount of spilling also increases. One advantage to inside bottle/pail feeding is easier access by the bees as they can access and remain in the warmth of the hive. For the feeder bag they need to climb on top of the bag. It may not matter that much though. Spilling while preparing - zip lock bags when they spill, spill the bulk of the syrup. You want the zipper zipped all the way (as my mother used to tell me as a child)! I have no experience with glass bottles as the Boardman feeders I have constructed use 64 oz. plastic fruit juice bottles. Lastly, when removing the bottle/pail can easily be removed partially filled without making a mess. With feeder bags you need to wait until empty. However, the bags can be lifted and replaced carefully if they are on a queen excluder or feeder bag tray of some kind, thus permitting hive inspections and manipulations. A steady hand is required though. --------------- I've been toying with an idea for emergency cold weather feeding and would appreciate comments. Since the feeder bag does not have spilling problem due to warming the following idea occurred to me. Basically a solar heated cold frame type stucture placed on top of the hive with the feeder bag and air space warmed by the sun during the day. The temperature permitting bees access. The design would be simple (like a solar wax melter) with the glass facing the sun. The design would need to keep the temperature from getting to high with vents or single pane of glass. _ | \ | \ sun | \ | \ | \ |__FB__| | | | hive | |------| | | | | -------- FB feeder bag(s). ------------------- Would the cluster disperse and find the syrup? Would the bees be faked into thinking it was warm outside? If so, I think I would need to confine the bees to avoid losses due to freezing. Would the then warmed and confined bees "have to go" thus soiling the hive? This is intended as an emergency feeding method only. I appreciate that the best way to answer the above questions is to experiment and a some point I will. Maybe someone on the list will give it a try. As a warning, I think the biggest risk would be to much heat, causing damage to the bees and comb if the cold frame is too efficient. Comments would be appreciated. Jim Moore moore@aiag.enet.dec.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 11:48:07 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Faith Andrews Bedford Subject: Re: January Issue of APIS -Forwarded In a message dated 97-01-12 16:14:36 EST, Murray Reid forwarded to us: >Happy New Year! There are now 396 electronic subscribers and APIS is >beginning its fifteenth year. Here's the latest for your review. > >Tom Sanford > >FILENAME: JANAPIS.96 > > Florida Extension Beekeeping Newsletter > APIS-Apicultural Information and Issues (ISSN 0889-3764) > Thank you, Murray, the accompanying articles and discussions were fascinating. How can we Bee-liners subscribe to the Fl. Ex. Beekeeping Newsletter. Tom...are you out there? Can you tell us how. Thanks very much. Faith Andrews Bedford, Ivy VA and Tampa ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 08:49:53 -0800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Kerry Clark of AGF 784-2225 fax (604) 784 2299" Subject: Re: Feeder Bags In-Reply-To: <199701130048.TAA25156@ns.moran.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Someone suggested using small, cheap trash bags instead of zip closed bags. Be careful and read the box. Some of those trash bags have a loosely attached chemical claimed to be used to reduce odours or kill "germs". You wouldn't want it in the syrup your bees take from the bags (and you wouldn't want to wrap your own food in these bags either). Kerry Clark, Apiculture Specialist B.C. Ministry of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food 1201 103 Ave Dawson Creek B.C. V1G 4J2 CANADA Tel (250) 784-2231 fax (250) 784-2299 INTERNET kclark@galaxy.gov.bc.ca ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 14:50:08 +0000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Alyn W. Ashworth" Subject: Re: comb trapping Comments: To: dronebee@norfolk.infi.net In-Reply-To: <32D94928.6421@norfolk.infi.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 In message <32D94928.6421@norfolk.infi.net>, "Dr. Pedro Rodriguez" writes >I became initiated with the Varroa struggle in Europe. If you study the >spread of Varroa mites through the Eastern European countries and then >onto France and the Iberian pennninsula, you will have to agree with me >that relaxed management conditions are responsible for the magnitude of >spread of those mites. Surely comb-trapping (as with any other method of varroa control) is only likely be carried out by non-relaxed bee-keepers. One has to assume that they will destroy any varroa that they *encourage*, although I think we have established that by using worker combs, there can be no questions of *encouraging varroa breeding*. I suppose (from a position of comparative ignorance) that if a malignant bee-keeper were to deliberately trap the Q on drone comb and allow the drones to hatch, and then repeat the operation, then additional varroa would result - but I find this unlikely, to say the least. It would be his own colonies that would suffer first! -- Alyn W. Ashworth Lancashire & North-West Bee-Keepers' Association. UK. (but I don't speak on their bee-half) ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 11:56:15 -0500 Reply-To: dronebee@norfolk.infi.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Dr. Pedro Rodriguez" Organization: InfiNet Subject: Re: Varroa & Drone Trapping MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit bee-l@cnsibm.albany.edu wrote: > > In message <199701102115.VAA04373@hermes.zynet.net>, Glyn Davies > writes > >Using drone comb to trap and reduce mites can work but obviously has to be > >very efficienly managed or else too many drones and thousands of mites are > >released into the hive! > True, but it's only the timing that's crucial as I said in another post. > Otherwise it's not difficult. > > But I don't like the idea because I think it will > >be putting environmental pressure onto the mites for the selection of those > >mites that 'prefer' worker brood. However I don't understand the biological > >interactions well enough to work out if that would be even more harmful to > >beekeeping. Can anyone offer a suggestion? > Yes I think this selection is possible but there are some 'howevers'. > To me the experience in Europe (that includes us BTW ;-)) shows that it > is important that more than one control is used, partly because of this > problem of selecting resistant or tolerant strains and partly because of > the way we have to fit management to the bee's natural cycle. So, if we > were to select for worker prefering mites with this one another control > ( > it's ability to increase exponentially its population. Were it merely to > On average in worker if I > remember rightly only one viable adult is produced, in drone its slightly more than two. So, if we selected mites that 'prefer' worker brood far from being harmfull it might (ha ha) do us a favour. > -- > Dave Black > Blacks Bee Gardens, > Guildford, GU1 4RN. UK. Dear fellow beekeepers and others: More on my research findings: There are two very important factors that influenced my thinking for developing my line of research. 1) the very high incidence of inbreeding of Varroa mites. 2) the active ingredient in Apistan has been in use for a long time. Hence, I worry that these two factors may become the biggest stumbling block that we will ever meet in our fight against Varroa since it is very possible that Varroa might develop resistance to flavalenate (active ingredient in Apistan). Add to that individual modalities of application of the strips and the possibility becomes of greater significance. As a young student in the early fifties, I remember reading about someone having a population of flies living a in an environment saturated with DDT dust. Also I am very much afraid of biological controls. We all know of serious complications that have developed when humans have attempted to tamper with the laws of mother nature! Beware! Soon, I will discuss my research work in public. In my opinion this type of approach, in whichever form applied, will become the route to erradication of bee mites. Regards. Dr. Pedro Rodriguez Virginia Beach, Virgina USA ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 13:17:06 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Janet Montgomery & Dan Veilleux Subject: Re: comb-trapping and formic acid Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At you wrote-) >Sorry if the post's a bit long or repeats what you experts already know, >I'm still feeling my way. > > >-- >Dave Black >Blacks Bee Gardens, >Guildford, GU1 4RN. UK. > >Long posts that are fact filled, such as yours, are a welcome in my book-- thanks Dan Veilleux Columbus, Ohio, USA Janet Montgomery 104 Fallis Road Columbus, Ohio 43214-3724 Home: (614) 784-8334 FAX: (614) 268-3107 E-mail: MONTVEIL@IWAYNET.NET ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 13:35:00 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "George W.D. Fielder" Subject: Formic acid, varroa, etc. BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU +++++ Eric Abell wrote: >It has been my understanding that the acid >will not kill the mites beneath the capping. If you have a way to treat the >brood with Formic acid would you please elaborate. ----------------------- While awaiting news of the method the author had in mind, I thought that I would add that last November there was a presentation at the OBA (Ontario Beekeepers Association) convention about mite control with Formic acid, From what I remember it did indeed kill the mites under the cappings since the fumes travelled through the wax cappings much as water vapour does. In a nutshell: Place a 8" X 9.5" piece of .5" thick tentest (Homosote) in a 12" X 12.4" Ziploc vegetable bag and soak in 250ml of 65% Formic acid until all was absorbed, Place on top of brood frames on .5" thick spacers. Place a 1" rim around the brood chamber to accommodate this and cover hive. Leave for 15 to 21 days. During treatment the temperature should be between 12 and 25 degrees Centigrade with night temperatures not below 7 degrees C. All materials and technique are critical in order to obtain the wanted evaporation rate of 10 ml./day which kills the mites and has no significant effect on brood. Treatment must stop before honey supers are put on. BTW Formic acid treatment is legal in Canada, This vapour treatment is recommended to use in spring along with Apistan (a contact chemical spread by the bees as they crawl over the strips). These two different chemicals and method of transport help to avoid breeding resistant mites. BTW2 I understand that Formic acid is effective for controlling BOTH Varroa and Tracheal mites. BTW3 Drone trapping is being used by some here when mite build-up is observed but during honey flow in on and thus no chemical treatment can be used. george fielder ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 13:56:00 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "George W.D. Fielder" Subject: Pasteurization BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU +++++ Egon asked >At what temp. and time is natural honey pasteurized? ------------------------------------- I have read several schedules like the one below to kill naturally occurring yeasts in honey. But this DOES NOT apply to disease pathogens such as those causing problems with infants as discussed on BEE-L a while ago. Degrees Centigrade Minutes 52 407 54 170 57 60 60 22 63 7.5 66 2.8 68 1.0 The only 'regulation' about this that I am aware of in Canada is that honey may be raised a grade limited by water content. i.e., it can be pasteurized instead of dried to achieve the higher grade. Does anyone have anything to add to this? george fielder ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 08:49:03 +1200 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Andrew Matheson Subject: Bee Biz request for info Comments: To: bee-l.list%MAFHO.HOWGTN@cogs.maf.govt.nz MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Matthew Allan, editor of Bee Biz, recently asked for information on several subjects. I may have missed the response in all the post-Christmas clutter in my mailbox, but here's an answer to one of the questions (about competition between native bees and honey bees, at least in areas where honey bees are not native). There was a good review on the subject last year: Sugden, E A; Thorp, R W; Buchmann, S L (1996) Honey bee-native bee competition in Australia: focal point for ecological change and apicultural response. Bee World 77(1): 26-44. Evan Sugden also presented a paper at the IBRA/Linnean Society symposium on bee conservation held in the UK in 1995, so his paper is in the proceedings: Sugden, E A (1996) Toward an ecological perspective of beekeeping. In Matheson, A; Buchmann, S L; O'Toole, C; Westrich, P; Williams, I H (1996) The conservation of bees. Academic Press for the Linnean Society of London and the International Bee Research Association; London, UK; pp 153-162. It contains a good bibliography of data-generating studies on honey bee competition with other bee species. There are other papers in that volume on this subject: Competition between honey bees and native bees in the Sonoran Desert and global bee conservation issues (S L Buchmann, pp 125- 142) Resource overlap among native and introduced bees in California (R W Thorp, pp 143-151) Measuring the meaning of honey bees (D W Roubik, pp 163-172) African honey bees as exotic pollinators in French Guiana (D W Roubik, pp 173-182) The possible ecological implications of the invasion of Bombus terrestris (L) (Apidae) at Mt Carmel, Israel (A Dafni & A Schmida, pp 183-200). Tom Sanford also discussed this issue from a Floridian perspective in Apis (http://gnv.ifas.ufl.edu/~entweb/APIS/APIS.html). Hope this helps. Andrew ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 19:12:53 GMT Reply-To: Tim_Sterrett@westtown.edu Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Tim Sterrett Organization: Westtown School Subject: emergency winter feeding Re: I've been toying with an idea for emergency cold weather feeding and would appreciate comments. Jim Moore, Rather than build a cold-frame, solar heater to warm the sugar syrup, _emergency_ feeding can be done with dry sugar poured onto the inner cover around the hole in the center of the inner cover. If the feeding is less of an emergency, sugar cakes (bee candy) can be laid on top of the frames. If the bees need the food, the cluster will flow up over the sugar cake and consume it. I would be wary of heating any part of a hive in winter time. Tim Tim Sterrett Westtown, (Southeastern) Pennsylvania, USA tim_sterrett@westtown.edu ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 15:49:13 -0500 Reply-To: beeworks@muskoka.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: David Eyre Organization: beeworks Subject: Re: comb-trapping MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT On 10 Jan 97 at 9:48, John Volpe wrote: Re: comb-trapping > Now, if there were more effective tools/ideas available that anyone may like > to share with us (he says while glancing in the general direction of > Virginia Beach)........well, it may be a different story but I haven't run > across anything. Being on Vancouver Island I have yet to have to deal with > mites first hand but I find the discussions most interesting and educational > and would not wish to see anyone stifled just because he/she didn't have the > golden bullet loaded and ready to fire - discuss on! This is my big concern. We 'don't got' Varroa either. :-}} I am hoping that before it arrives I will have arrived at an acceptable control method. As a Queen breeder, I am totally confused. On one hand I desperately need to breed drones to mate with the queens I raise, but on the other hand I will be raising Varroa. Honey is not a major concern, but we do get some, which precludes the frequent use of Apistan. Also there are now concerns that Apistan will weaken the hive. Formic Acid is accepted here in Canada but that stuff will take your skin off! Essential oil might be the silver bullet, but here again there are legal concerns. It seems to me, the more I listen the more confused I become. Has anyone come up with a system yet? I would be pleased to discuss this with anyone, both on the list and off. ********************************************************* The Bee Works, 9 Progress Drive Unit 2, Orillia, Ontario, Canada. L3V 6H1 David Eyre, Owner. Phone/Fax 705 326 7171 Agents for E.H.Thorne & B.J.Sherriff UK http://www.muskoka.net/~beeworks ********************************************************* ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 15:49:14 -0500 Reply-To: beeworks@muskoka.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: David Eyre Organization: beeworks Subject: Re: comb-trapping MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT On 10 Jan 97 at 0:35, Dr. Pedro Rodriguez wrote: Re: comb-trapping > We all know that drones are allowed "free" entrance to strange colonies! > If we have a "breeding" situation as proposed with this setup, how can > we keep mites from parasitizing foraging bees and drones which are not > "trapped?" It is impossible to prevent spread of those mites under any Sorry, I don't believe the good Dr. has thought this one out! I reiterate, we are not breeding mites. We are attracting breeding aged mites to a series of cells. When that cell is sealed it is removed from the hive. Perhaps after Virginia we will have a better understanding of the good Dr.'s work!!! ********************************************************* The Bee Works, 9 Progress Drive Unit 2, Orillia, Ontario, Canada. L3V 6H1 David Eyre, Owner. Phone/Fax 705 326 7171 Agents for E.H.Thorne & B.J.Sherriff UK http://www.muskoka.net/~beeworks ********************************************************* ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 15:49:15 -0500 Reply-To: beeworks@muskoka.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: David Eyre Organization: beeworks Subject: Re: grease patties MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT On 10 Jan 97 at 9:51, Bonnie Pierson wrote: grease patties > believe that the grease coats the two front legs of the mites and masks all > their senses. Mites can't tell hot or cold, or dry or oily,ect, and end up > just wandering instead of host searching, home searching. Instant question! Are we discussing T or V mites, as I am suprised if these statements concern Varroa. Perhaps Bonnie could add a bit more? For example was anything added to the grease patties? Was any sampling for Varroa done during this time period? ********************************************************* The Bee Works, 9 Progress Drive Unit 2, Orillia, Ontario, Canada. L3V 6H1 David Eyre, Owner. Phone/Fax 705 326 7171 Agents for E.H.Thorne & B.J.Sherriff UK http://www.muskoka.net/~beeworks ********************************************************* ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 15:49:15 -0500 Reply-To: beeworks@muskoka.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: David Eyre Organization: beeworks Subject: Re: Flooding. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT The message from Andy regarding the California flooding was received with shock and horror. This has to be a disaster of mammoth proportions. To recover the equipment alone will takes weeks. The cost to others around may be incalculable. I would suggest it will be enough to put some out of business! Is there anything we can do as a group to help alleviate the problem? ********************************************************* The Bee Works, 9 Progress Drive Unit 2, Orillia, Ontario, Canada. L3V 6H1 David Eyre, Owner. Phone/Fax 705 326 7171 Agents for E.H.Thorne & B.J.Sherriff UK http://www.muskoka.net/~beeworks ********************************************************* ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 17:33:56 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Janet Montgomery & Dan Veilleux Subject: pasturization and crystalization Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" would pasturization or other heating have an effect on crystalization? Dan Veilleux Columbus, Ohio USA Janet Montgomery 104 Fallis Road Columbus, Ohio 43214-3724 Home: (614) 784-8334 FAX: (614) 268-3107 E-mail: MONTVEIL@IWAYNET.NET ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 17:48:51 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Faith Andrews Bedford Subject: Re: Feeder Bags In a message dated 97-01-13 11:12:05 EST,Jim Moore writes re his solar feeder on top of the hive....: > This is intended as an emergency feeding method only. I appreciate >that the best way to answer the above questions is to experiment and a some >point I will. Maybe someone on the list will give it a try. As a warning, I >think the biggest risk would be to much heat, causing damage to the bees and >comb if the cold frame is too efficient. > >Jim, I would be concerned about comb melt down but also about the bees getting trapped up there and trying to fly through the glass towards the sun. I have found, whenever I've had bees get into a room (or, by accident my solar wax melter) they forget how they got in and all they can think about is heading for the sun to get out. You might end up with a passel of bees trapped in the warming chamber FWIW. Faith Andrews Bedford Ivy Va and Tampa ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 17:50:00 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "George W.D. Fielder" Subject: Re: Resistant Queens & Varroa treatment BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU +++++ Good for you David, in still being Varroa mite free! Thanks too for the prices. I suppose that I could drive to your place to pick them up? I often find that is more positive though not essential. In your email you mention >We start with Buckfast ......... good they are. >Docile, hard working, good wintering, T-mite resistant, disease Not to belittle your efforts in any way, but I have in my very limited operation selected for the same traits and am reasonably pleased. However it is time to 'increase my gene pool' before brood pattern suffers so I am PARTICULARLY interested in Varroa resistant stock )as well as TM resistant as Buckfast has demonstrated to be) because Varroa is now across the road form me. Now I wonder if your stock has been tested for mite resistance per Guelph's earlier program. But I guess without the mites you'd not be able to easily select resistant stock for this test. However I understand that some hygienic behaviour helps and can be tested for by killing say 100 cells of brood and timing how long it takes a hive to clear them out. Can you enlighten me about your status of Varroa resistancy? I should have been more specific in my original mail so as not to waste your time. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----------- In a very recent post you mention being 'confused' about Varroa treatment. Were you able to listen to Dr Medhats presentation on LT mite wipe techniques using tentest? I personally think this reduces the risk from formic acid to about the same level as paint stripper preparations that the public handle okay. I am sure you are aware he is advocating Formic acid in Spring and Apistan in fall. Another speaker (I think Gar d Otis - but do not have my notes at hand) mentioned microencapsulated menthol which is readily eaten by the bees. I mention these just in case you were too tied up to sit in during the VERY interesting presentation for I know that you are keeping quite up to date in spite of advertised confusion. Thanks again george ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 00:29:22 GMT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Glyn Davies Subject: Re: Chalkbrood and Varroa Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Eric, I think there is some confusion over the word "trapping". In one system, as I understand it, The Q. is trapped on a frame for a short time and hence Varroa females migrate into those cells containing live brood which are on one frame only. This is then removed for destruction and the Q. liberated. The other method to which I was referring, and the one I have tried is to "trap" varroa mites by using their preference for drone brood. A frame of drone foundation, or a shallow frame under which the bees will build their own drone cells, is placed in the brood chamber early in the year. Varroa, in theory, will migrate to the drone cells. These MUST be removed as soon as capped. If they are allowed to hatch....!! Well it's obvious that you cannot afford to be careless! If I'm mistaken in either of these systems I am hopeful someone will put me right. Best wishes. Glyn Davies, Ashburton Devon UK. PS Since writing this and before sending it I see that Dave Black has provided a detailed explanation of the two systems. Many thanks Dave. > >I am not an expert and I have never tried this method of traping mites. >However, I do not see how it will introduce excess drones, or thousands of >mites or select for worker brood. > >The method, as I understand it, is to confine the queen so that all brood >can be disposed of. She will be laying in any event and the mites will be >entering cells in any event. The only negative I can see is that in >destroying brood, there will be fewer bees emerging in a few weeks. > >If I have missed something, I hope someone will let me know. > >Eric >Eric Abell >Gibbons, Alberta Canada >(403) 998 3143 >eabell@compusmart.ab.ca > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 23:14:08 +0000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Paul Walton Subject: Re: Plastic frames and foundation Comments: cc: ruxbury@delphi.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 In article , Peter Wilson writes >An article in BEE BIZ , a relatively new magazine "for the commercial >beekeeper" August 1995, by Jean-Pierre Chapleau, St Adrien, Quebec >entitled " PLASTIC FRAMES-GADGETS OR TECHNOLOGY?" concludes with a 12 year >cost of production analysis using wood/beeswax foundation; plastic frames >and wood/plastic. > >Figures given are $4.08; $1.83 and $1.99 respectively. > >Peter Wilson >Edmonton, Alberta, >Canada > > email: pjwilson@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca I do not believe that this was intended as a serious project appraisal but simply to illustrate that Mr. Chapleau believed that the Pierco frames worked out cheaper than either of the other options in the longer term. For example, the article assumes :- 1) 0% inflation over 12 years. 2) that there is no cost of capital (i.e. that you can finance the project without borrowing or expecting a return from the investment). 3) that there is no opportunity cost from the decision to invest in a more expensive option in year 0 (which ties up working capital) as opposed to a cheaper option that requires replacement at some point during the project but frees up capital for other projects. You have to ask yourself, are these assumptions reasonable? I suggest that they are not. -- Paul Walton, MBA Email : Paul@adrem.demon.co.uk Toddington, Bedfordshire, England. -- End --