Date sent: Wed, 29 Jan 1997 11:51:06 -0500 From: "L-Soft list server at University at Albany (1.8c)" Subject: File: "BEE-L LOG9701D" To: "W. Allen Dick" Forwarded by: Date forwarded: Wed, 29 Jan 97 09:39:29 EST Forwarded to: allend@mail1.internode.net ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 01:24:48 -0600 Reply-To: dvisrael@earthlink.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Donald Israel Subject: Open Feeding MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I used to put my extracted supers out for all bees in the neigherhood to clean up. I noticed that after a while there were guard bees killing other bees that came to the supers. At night fall all bees left. Why would bees act as guard bees? Could the same thing happen during open feeding? Don ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 01:27:03 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jerry J Bromenshenk Subject: Re: Where's the bullet? In-Reply-To: from "Roy Nettlebeck" at Jan 20, 97 03:29:34 pm MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Roy has this one pegged: >The Oil on > paper is not new by any means.I don't think we should put anyone down. I > used the paper and oil myself plus a paper and oil with pepernint oil.The > later can be toxic to bees.I did get that info from a researcher and I > know of at least 20 people working very hard at the problem of Varroa. We > have problems to address with research that is going on now. What affect > does the oil have on egg laying. Will the larva be feeding at the same > rate and will it change anything in the life cycle of the bee.We do know > that we have beekeepers all over trying different things to kill the mite. > I do appreciate the good Dr. R's work. It is too much like what we have > been doing for the last year , to call it a great breakthru. It will be > good results to be added with what we have now. > Best Regards > Roy The responses of the members of this list clearly show how desperate we are for a "cure". But in the long run, the cure just could turn out to be harder on the bees than the mites. My concern is there seems to be a growing trend where various substances, still in preliminary phases of testing, are touted as the magic bullet. Even more bothersome is that careful research results (which take time to collect) are viewed as not useful or contributing little to beekeepers and the industry. On the other hand, it seems that proclaimations or assertation of success (with or without any supporting evidence) are trusted more than rigorous study. Unfortunately, the progress of valid science is seldom a quick process. Jerry Bromenshenk jjbmail@selway.umt.edu P.S. As I remember one of the first hints concerning the effects of oils on mites had to do with an empty jar of Vaseline Petroleum Jelly. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 03:48:59 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Tom Allen Subject: bee venom and multiplpe scelerosis All plea se help.I have aclose friend whosefather ,I discover, has been bedridden with MS for 17 years. I would like to gather as many references to apitherapy and ms as possible for them. Please send to me at tombeeski@aol.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 12:00:55 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Hussein Sanchez-Arroyo Subject: The largest swarm ? MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT This is the topic I have selected for a new chapter in the University of Florida Book of Insect Records, published on the Internet at: http://gnv.ifas.ufl.edu/~tjw/recbk.htm If you know or have information about the largest swarm (hopefully with a supporting reference), please send the information directly to me or post it to the list if you think your nomination is of general interest. I will acknowledge all substantive help in the final version of the chapter. Hussein Sanchez-Arroyo E-mail hsa@gnv.ifas.ufl.edu Phone: (352) 392-2326 Department of Entomology & Nematology, PO Box 110620 University of Florida, Gainesville, FL 32611-0620 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 10:35:18 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jerry J Bromenshenk Subject: Re: open feeding & requeening pallets In-Reply-To: from "Ed Levi" at Jan 20, 97 08:11:35 pm MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ed and Group: We did some open feeding tests in late fall in Maryland. The weather was warm, but the bees were conserving energy by sending out only a few scouts, so flight activity ranged from low to almost nil at two sites where we had our hives with front-entrance bee flight counters. We placed an open feeder at each site in late afternoon, so the bees didn't find them until the next day. Under similar weather conditions, overall bee flight activity increased dramatically - more than 6 fold at one site. However, we also experienced about a 6% loss in returning bees - some drowned and I suspect others were too old and weak to survive the feeding frenzy. My guess, from an energy expenditure and bee loss statepoint - we had an adverse impact on the colonies (at least in terms of individual bees). Whether the colony experienced a net gain or loss from the additional provisions is unknown. Jerry Bromenshenk The University of Montana jjbmail@selway.umt.edu ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 12:55:24 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: rnessler Subject: Wax moths? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII I'm back... I had to leave the group for awhile. I had been looking for info about starting up some hives that I was given. I've got a bee package ordered, and started doing inventory of what equipment I was given. I've noticed that some of the hive bodies have "chewed" areas on the inside. My guess is that it is wax moth lavra, since I've seen other things like this with coccoons in them in other types of wood. If this is wax moths, do I need to destroy them before instaling a package? Will bees keep them in check if I don't fumigate the hives? What is the preferred method of control? At this point in time (Jan. in SE Iowa), I doubt if I'll see anymore doamage this winter. Comments? Randy Nessler rnessler@emiris.iaf.uiowa.edu ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 12:01:12 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: STEVE PHILLIPS Subject: Open feeding--pollen substitutes In a recent post by Roy Nettlebeck I think he said he open feeds pollen substitutes. How is this done? Does anyone else do it? ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 13:23:34 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Carl H. Powell" Subject: Re: Hive outbreak from st -=> Quoting Int:bee-l@cnsibm.albany.e to Watchman <=- In> I would appreciate some input on this problem. A friend of mine, In> new to beekeeping, has experienced quite a bit of itching when stung. In> The last time, though, she could not remove the sting quickly and broke In> out in hives in parts of the body removed from the sting site. In> Justin Schmidt's treatment of allergic reactions to stings in THE In> HIVE AND THE HONEY BEE indicated that such a reaction is not In> life-threatening. On the other hand, losing sleep all night can be In> quite disconcerting. In> My question: Have any of you had such an experience? If so, did In> your body chemistry adapt and allow you to continue to receive stings In> without adverse effect? <<<<>>>> In> Adrian M. Wenner (805) 893-2838 (UCSB office) <<<<< signature compressed >>>>> Adrian, I would have replied personal e-mail but I have lost/misplaced your address. I don't have it at hand but Pat Wagner(?) "The Bee Lady" from Maryland was at ABF/Norfolk and gave a procedure description for desensitizing to bee stings in her forum on Apitherapy. I will look the information for her point of contact up for you (as soon as I finish sorting this stuff from the convention) and post it to you. Could you send me your e-mail again? If there is any general interest from the List I will post her information directly here. Her book on Apitherapy is now ready from her, I think it is $27.00 a copy. Carl Powell watchman@qwick.net ... System Error: Reality.Sys not Found: Abort Universe? ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 18:43:38 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Garrett Dodds Subject: Re: Two Queen Colony Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Well Stan, I do rear my own queens hear in Ohio. All I need to rear queens by the end of April (which is when I start) or any time is nice large colonies with lots and lots of DRONES. The dandelion flow starts around mid April, that gives them the stimulation they need to kick it in to high gear. Using the two-queen system helps in getting those nice large colonies early spring and so dose over wintering them in 3 deep hive bodies. Most of my two-queening gets done around the second week of May but I start as early as possible. My inseminated queens are started with splits in mid June and allowed to build up. Some time they need honey supers after they pass the 3 deeps for winter. They are over wintered with what they make, and are never two-queened. I use the honey producing two-queen hive as drone sources. Garrett ***************** Garrett Dodds Custom Inseminations 29480 January Rd. West Mansfield, OH 43358 (937) 355-0290 e-mail dodds.12@osu.edu Stan wrote: >Hi Garrett, Ted and All: > >Since both of you are fairly northern beekeepers (Ohio, Michigan) I am >curious about how you manage to get young queens that you can use for >splitting your colonies around the first of May. I don't think I could >possibly rear queens here in PEI in April and I would have just assumed that you >were buying your queens except for Garrett's final remark about using artificial >insemination to rear stock that might be adapted to this system. > >I know our spring is delayed here compared with the midwest, but I am still >curious as to what techniques you can use to raise queens that early. > >I just got a price list from F.W.Jones for queens and packages from New >Zealand, Australia, and Hawaii (the only places we can import from because >we are varroa and tracheal mite free). Queens were $20 to $25 and it was >$180 for a 2 kilogram packages of bees with two queens. Sheesh. The queens >especially have gone up. > >Regards, Stan *********************** * Garrett Dodds * * 29480 January Road * * West Mansfield, OH 43358 * * (937) 355-0290 * * e-mail dodds.12@osu.edu * *--------------------------* * Custom Inseminations * ******************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 23:01:50 -0800 Reply-To: "bjhensel@metro.net"@metro.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: BRIAN HENSEL <"bjhensel@metro.net"@metro.net> Subject: Re: Where's the bullet? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jim Maus wrote: > > I think those that have responded have been much to hard on > Dr. Rodriguez at least he is trying SOMETHING > I think a person should use t-mite resistant stock without oiled paper > and then go from there otherwise you just keep treating with "oil" >hen Br. Adam has proven you do not need this > step for T-mite we must conquer Varroa then we will be on the right > course and my point precisely is that Dr. R has tried something and > may have a lead. Jim Maus I have to agree with Jim. I have read all the postings recently, and I am surprised at all the criticism regarding Dr. Rodrequez's reports. I can't understand how anyone can criticize someone's studies when they don't know the complete report. I can't help be very interested in any report on the battle against varroa. I admit that I'm just beginning to learn all the secrets of beekeeping, but if there is a solution and Dr. Pedro Rodrequez has found it, and he says to take limburger cheese and rub it all over my head, stand on one leg in front of the hive and sing moon river, and it will drive all the varroa out of the hive, I would do it, if it got rid of varroa.(sorry for all those who love limburger cheese.) All kidding aside. After all the damage that varroa has caused me with my hive I am really looking forward to try out his method, before using Apistan again. It has to be safer to use than Apistan, it sure won't cost as much as Apistan, and it won't stink up the hive like the essential oils do. What happened to having an open mind? I look forward in reading his report, but I don't look forward in reading the immediate backlash and criticism's. There seems to be far too many who think they know all the answers, without first trying out the methods. I don't think Dr. Pedro Rodrequez would make any false claims or untested cures. What would be his motive? I think he just has a love for bee's and beekeeping, and this gives him the strength to disclose it, and take the blast from the critics, that will be just waiting to attack his work. This tiny little blood sucker mite has caused more damage to us all that we are now fighting amongst ourselves. I hope that someday varroa will be under control with a safe alternative to poisons. Until that day comes we must try and work together and not be so quick to blow someone's ideas out of the water. The wealth of all the knowledge that all of you have, not just theories, but years of hands on experience is incredible, and it would be ashame to loose one persons idea, because they would be hesitant to post it here. BRIAN HENSEL ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 11:50:58 +0100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Max.Watkins@sandoz.com Subject: Re[2]: eradication of Varroa ---------------------------- Forwarded with Changes --------------------------- From: Max Watkins at GBCBC001 Date: 1/19/97 3:40PM To: owner-bee-l@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU at INTERNET1 To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU at INTERNET1 Subject: Re[2]: eradication of Varroa ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Apologies if you get this twice - I got a system error notification when I first sent it. Max ______________________________ Forward Header __________________________________ Subject: Re[2]: eradication of Varroa Author: Max Watkins at GBCBC001 Date: 1/19/97 3:40 PM James, I agree entirely. Tropilaelaps has been know as a pest in Asia for such a long time - many reknown bee experts have documented the biology and control, notably Dr Woyke of Poland. However, I do have one additional comment on the resistance issue touched on by Dr Rodriguez: In areas where mite resistance to acaricides is an issue (and remember this is still restricted geographically - we are monitoring extensively) I don't see an alternative to Integrated Pest Management. Widespread selection of varroa-tolerant Apis mellifera is still in its infancy and is not yet applicable as an effective control measure. For now, where natural infestation and reinfestation levels are high, beekeepers will need to use some form of chemical treatment, be it synthetic acaricides, essential oils or organic acids, perhaps in addition to biomechanical means, to control Varroa. Where there is no indication of acaricide resistance - ie most of the world at present - lone chemical treatments can still be used to control Varroa, providing treatment periods are short and the acaricide has a high efficacy. Where a professionally produced and commercialised product is used, the label directions should be respected - these instructions have been developed through thorough testing of the product in various conditions. Even so, it is advisable to employ two [or more] different modes of Varroa control to prevent or at least postpone the evolution of resistance. eg drone & brood management + an acaricide. This will help prolong the lifespan of the arsenal which is needed to control this pest. Noone wants to lose a useful tool; as an industry we need to eliminate the hap-hazard mis-use of hive treatments in favour of a sensible integrated approach using legal, tried and tested methods for the benefit of all our bees. Max Dr Max Watkins ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Re: eradication of Varroa Author: owner-bee-l@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU at INTERNET1 Date: 1/17/97 5:42 PM Dr. Pedro Rodriguez wrote: >As the rest of the world will soon discover, there is another mite in India which has now >claimed Apis mellifera (Italian race) as their choice meal. Parasitism of A. mellifera by Tropilaelaps is very interesting and important, but it's hardly a new phenomenen in India or elsewhere. >The breeding rate of mites is so short and numerous that they really >pose an enormous challenge to scientists to overcome. Well perhaps ... but surely the obvious fact about V. jacobsoni is that its reproductive rate is extremely low in comparison with most other mite parasites and pests . This is actually an enormous point in favour of control. >Hence, the most plausible avenues of conquest of these mites is through interruption of >their life cycles with aims at erradication. Surely this is an enormous non-sequitur. Yes it is logical to interupt the mites life cycle - any method of control that doesn't do this isn't a method of control at all, after all; but it does not follow that because the mites are a big problem and because they can breed we must totally eradicate them to be able control them. Moreover, even if eradication seems an attractive idea, in reality it just isn't feasable since any eradication scheme would have to reach every single mite in every single colony to be a success. I'm sure that this point has been made enough times here before. >Chemically, we already know that it can not be achieved because of the mites ability to mutate and >develop resistance to chemicals (the fluvalinate story). The solution >lies in the utilization of physiological, anatomical and biological >characteristics of mites. It is a problem that mites can develop resistance to chemical treatments used to control them. But rather than throwing our hands up in despair, it is worth remembering that as beekeepers we can prolong the useful life of the chemical treatments that we are using by strictly adhering to the label directions so that we avoid exposing mite populations to sub-lethal doses of the active incredient as it is this which is the factor most likely to cause the development of resistance. I do agree that the long term solution will probably not be based on chemical treatments, and this is one reason why management methods (such as drone trapping) are significant. Finally, although the term chemical treatments tends to be associated with synthetic pyrethroids etc., the 'alternative treatments' sometimes used by beekeepers such as essential oils, formic acid and mineral oils(!) are chemicals too. Their modes of action may be different, but I am aware of no scientific reason that why the same issue of development of mite resistance does not apply equally to these. Perhaps those better informed than me in this field might wish to to comment. Anyway, I should say that I am quite looking forward to receiving details of Dr. Pedro Rodriguez's methods and results to consider. James Morton ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 11:26:29 -0500 Reply-To: dronebee@norfolk.infi.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Dr. Pedro Rodriguez" Organization: InfiNet Subject: Re: Where's the bullet? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit bee-l@cnsibm.albany.edu wrote: > > Roy has this one pegged: > >The Oil on > > paper is not new by any means.I don't think we should put anyone down. I > > used the paper and oil myself plus a paper and oil with pepernint oil.The > > later can be toxic to bees.I did get that info from a researcher and I know of > > at least 20 people working very hard at the problem of Varroa. We have > > problems to address with research that is going on now. What affect does the > > oil have on egg laying. Will the larva be feeding at the same rate and will it > > change anything in the life cycle of the bee.We do know that we have > > beekeepers all over trying different things to kill the mite. I do appreciate > > the good Dr. R's work. It is too much like what we have been doing for the > > last year , to call it a great breakthru. It will be good results to be added > > with what we have now. > > Best Regards > > Roy > > The responses of the members of this list clearly show how desperate we > are for a "cure". But in the long run, the cure just could turn out to be > harder on the bees than the mites. My concern is there seems to be a > growing trend where various substances, still in preliminary phases of > testing, are touted as the magic bullet. Even more bothersome is that > careful research results (which take time to collect) are viewed as not > useful or contributing little to beekeepers and the industry. > snip > Jerry Bromenshenk > jjbmail@selway.umt.edu > > P.S. As I remember one of the first hints concerning the effects of oils on > mites had to do with an empty jar of Vaseline Petroleum Jelly. Dear Fellow beekeepers: I promised to remain silent and "let dead dogs lie" but I think that at this point a couple of sentences need to be said. 1. Please have patience. I have made arrangements for a magazine article where you will have complete details of my work. It is solid, well thought out and tested both in the "lab" and in the field. I am very happy because not only will my findings be beneficial immediately for the "war" against Varroa but because I am sure that many other investigation projects will spring from it! Contrary to past trials with "oils" none used mineral oil. Food grade mineral oil does not have a single negative action or reaction to the bees if applied with care (one can drown the bees too if one wants; like one can kill the bees with Apistan or any other miticide if applied in excess) and will be readily accepted by government regulators because it is a standard item approved for use in food manufacturing. It is economic and easy to apply. AND IT WORKS without harming the bees. I risked 27 colonies. Twenty are still strong and thriving (five were controls, and two died because they were weak and were robbed) with one of them giving off a swarm yesterday with the first break in the cold weather! Unfortunately, that swarm will starve to death wherever it landed! 2. I know that many others will claim that "they" have used "oil and paper" method as a miticide, but do they have a patent to prove it? It might be a "poor man's patent," but I have one! 3. I have been an ardent reader all my life. I find that literature is full of detractors and ignorant babblers who enjoy getting on the band wagon to make a name for themselves, THE ONLY WAY they can: making ridicule of things that they have not done! Right Mr. Bromenshek? You know what I am talking about, don't you? I wonder what your words will be when beekeepers find that my findings are useful? You'll find something, wont you? Your kind always does. I would like to have your postal address so that I may send you a nice Crow and a box of tissues to wipe the egg off your face. 4. As stated before, I seek neither wealth nor glory. My work will be available to all shortly in order that it may be put to work where it will be most beneficial: to the honey bees! 5. I apologize to the well intended, serious readers on the service, but I too have a constitutional right in these UNITED STATES OF AMERICA to freedom of speech. Unless, of course, the Bromensheks find a reason to put me down for that also! Sincerely Dr. Pedro Rodriguez Virginia Beach, Virginia USA ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 08:23:31 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Adrian Wenner Subject: Re: Where's the bullet? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Roy Nettlebeck and Jerry Bromenshenk have provided valuable input with respect to caution about relying too soon on a "new" treatment for varroa mites. I admit that I have limited experience, but I have the advantage of having documented the progression of varroa mites from early infestation for a number of purposely untreated colonies. Beekeepers deal here with quite a different situation than any previous plague. The more rapid the brood production in the colony, the faster the varroa mite production. One can believe that a treatment is working under those circumstances, when in reality a complete collapse may be just over the horizon. The latent period from first infestation to noticeable effect can be more than two years, in my experience. The fact that death from varroa leaves a colony full of honey in most cases attests to the fact that collapse is rapid, indeed. Sure, you may do some controlled experiments with a few colonies not intended for honey production (as outlined by Jerry in a much earlier posting), but I suggest you keep most of your colonies well protected by approved methods. Adrian Adrian M. Wenner (805) 893-2838 (UCSB office) Ecol., Evol., & Marine Biology (805) 893-8062 (UCSB FAX) Univ. of Calif., Santa Barbara (805) 963-8508 (home office & FAX) Santa Barbara, CA 93106 *********************************************************************** * "THIS LIFE may be the only chance you'll ever get to show what * * you can do." Pot-Shots #6923 * * Copyright, Ashleigh Brilliant --- used with permission * *********************************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 09:13:47 -1000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Bob St. John" Subject: Re: Hive outbreak from st In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Carl, please post any more information about desensitization, on the List. When we were in the bee business I discovered that I had a life threatening allergy to bees, but was desensitized via a medical doctor. I would still be very interested in any method to keep up that desensitization. Kathryn ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 08:59:25 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Adrian Wenner Subject: Re: Ulee's Gold --- Movie Comments: cc: SOCINSCT@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Several have mentioned the forthcoming movie, Ulee's Gold, starring Peter Fonda. The Sundance Film Festival will soon hand out awards; one of them may go to Ulee's Gold. The director, Victor Nunez, won a couple of such awards for earlier productions. On the front page of the Calendar section in the 21 January issue of the LOS ANGELES TIMES, an article discusses such a possibility. Although not a review of the film, the following paragraph provides a little more information about the movie than I have read earlier on BEE-L: "Ulee Jackson (evocatively played by Peter Fonda) is a third generation beekeeper---a stubborn, solitary man who lives with his two granddaughters beause their mother has run off and their father, Ulee's son, is in prison. Circumstances force Ulee to search for the girls' mother, involving him with hard cases from his son's past, turning the film into an unexpectedly moving meditation on redemption and the power of family." Just though you would like to know. Adrian Adrian M. Wenner (805) 893-2838 (UCSB office) Ecol., Evol., & Marine Biology (805) 893-8062 (UCSB FAX) Univ. of Calif., Santa Barbara (805) 963-8508 (home office & FAX) Santa Barbara, CA 93106 *********************************************************************** * "THIS LIFE may be the only chance you'll ever get to show what * * you can do." Pot-Shots #6923 * * Copyright, Ashleigh Brilliant --- used with permission * *********************************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 14:36:05 -0800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: France Desjardins Organization: MAPAQ Subject: paralysis of bees MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Recently somebody asked me to give him some information about a problem he had met in hives located in Haiti. During some weeks the bees seem to be paralysed in front of the hive. He told me that there is no mortality. After some time the bees begin to work again. What can it be and what can they do to solve the problem ? Thank you France ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 15:43:15 -0500 Reply-To: beeworks@muskoka.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: David Eyre Organization: The Beeworks Subject: Re: Two Queen Colony MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT On 20 Jan 97 at 18:57, Stan Sandler wrote: Re: Two Queen Colony > I just got a price list from F.W.Jones for queens and packages from New > Zealand, Australia, and Hawaii (the only places we can import from because > we are varroa and tracheal mite free). Queens were $20 to $25 and it was > $180 for a 2 kilogram packages of bees with two queens. Sheesh. The queens > especially have gone up. Just another reason for changing our approach. Rather than making early splits, why not do as we do. Plan this year for next. Make splits late in the year ready for next years crop, using local cheaper queens.The problems with early splitting are endless, whereas a later split will still make it through the winter with a little help, and come out bigger in the spring! ********************************************************* The Bee Works, 9 Progress Drive Unit 2, Orillia, Ontario, Canada. L3V 6H1 David Eyre, Owner. Phone/Fax 705 326 7171 Agents for E.H.Thorne & B.J.Sherriff UK http://www.muskoka.net/~beeworks ********************************************************* ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 17:04:23 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Stan Sandler Subject: Re: Open feeding--pollen substitutes Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >In a recent post by Roy Nettlebeck I think he said he open feeds pollen >substitutes. How is this done? Does anyone else do it? I mix three parts soybean flour, one part brewers yeast and one part skim milk powder. The brewers yeast is the most important ingredient and you can increase the concentration of it somewhat. Roy, I believe, has said that he mixes real pollen with it. That certainly makes it much more attractive. I mix a few drops of fennel oil (the bees can then find the box and my fingers anywhere on the farm :) The bees will find it just about as attractive as sugar syrup if it is offered before a natural pollen source in the spring. After natural sources are available they will ignore it totally. Put it in a DEEP cardboard box. It must be deep because the brewers yeast, (the most important part I believe) is very fine and the wind created by thousands of bee wings going in and out of the box constantly will blow some away. It has to be kept dry because the bees roll around in it and then use their combs and pollen baskets for transport. If it gets wet, well maybe you have pigs or chickens. Once the bees have the taste for it you can make a paste mixing it with two to one sugar syrup, form it into patties and put them between two pieces of waxed paper. Stick them on the top bars directly over the brood. Waxed paper is essential because if the patties dry out they are like cement. Bees will eat in from the edges or holes in the paper. Weak hives will sometimes not use the patties and they are wasted. A few bees die in the box. I am personally convinced that here on PEI it is an extremely important management item. It really stimulates brood rearing, I think, moreso than syrup. Thats the view from 45 north in the Gulf of St. Laurence, Stan ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 13:03:24 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Kerry Clark of AGF 784-2225 fax (604) 784 2299" Subject: Reduced egg laying w Apistan? MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT A couple of times, beekeepers have reported observing reduced egg laying during Apistan treatment, and it's been published as an aside, in an article about something else in ABJ. Someone has asked me for the references and I can't find them. I thought one was in APIS but I can't find it, scanning the fine index provided. Another perhaps was in a Steve Taber column? Can anyone remember and let me know? Thanks Kerry Clark, Apiculture Specialist B.C. Ministry of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food 1201 103 Ave Dawson Creek B.C. V1G 4J2 CANADA Tel (250) 784-2231 fax (250) 784-2299 INTERNET kclark@galaxy.gov.bc.ca ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 22:03:13 -0800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: osman Subject: Instrumental insemination apparatus Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I am planning to buy an instrumental insemination apparatus. Does anyone know the e-mail address or the fax number of Prof. Dr. Peter Schley from Germany who is the producer of the Schley apparatus, or W. Seip who is the supplier of the same apparatus or any company which sells this apparatus. Osman Kaftanoglu Fax: 00(90)322-3386097 E-mail: kaftan@pamuk.cc.cu.edu.tr ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 16:39:07 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Joe Latshaw Subject: Re: Instrumental insemination apparatus The Schley Instrumental Is also available throught Susan Cobey at the Ohio State University. I don't know the address, but the phone number is 614-292-7928. I believe she also offers classes on instrumental insemination. Joe ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 16:45:24 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Aaron Morris Subject: "Silver Bullet" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Well, I'm back from ABF in Virginia! Attempting to catch up on mail is an arduous task. I've been most interested in following the thread on the 'silver bullet' announced by Dr. Rodriguez, and I want to add just a bit. First, and most importantly, Dr. R. was very careful to note that his proposal calls for 'FOOD GRADE' mineral oil (FGMO). Being of sound constitution, I have no personal experience with mineral oil and will make no claim that I know the difference between food grade mineral oil and other mineral oil, but Dr. R. was very clear to make the distinction that his studies used FOOD GRADE mineral oil. His procedure calls for a very little smear of FGMO on the wax paper strips. He cautioned that too much FGMO will be detrimental to the bees as well as the mites. His hypothesis regarding how the FGMO is effective is that the FGMO gets into the spiracles of the mites (both tracheal and varroa), thereby suffocating them. The spiracles of the mites are much smaller than those of the bees, which is why a small quantity of FGMO is recommended - copious amounts of FGMO would also clog up the bees' spiracles. Regarding credits for this idea, to my knowledge this is the first recommendation of mineral oil (food grade or otherwise) that I have seen, and frankly Dr. R. expressed very little regard for 'credit' beyond a thank you for sharing his findings. He struck me as a very sincere man whose main concern was his bees, discovering a means to defend them against the mites, and sharing with the beekeeping public that which he found to be the demise of both tracheal and varroa mites! I am aware of Diana's work, and was quick to start with vegetable oil patties in my hives, long before I had the opportunity to read her published work or hear her speak. I have followed closely the work of Dr. Calderone and James Armine (and others) regarding essential oils, although I haven't personally experimented with them. The reason I have tried vegetable oil but not essential oils is one of concern over putting the latter in my hives whereas in my mind vegetable oil is less 'threatening'. And now I hear a claim that yet another oil may have positive results in the war against mites. Dr. Rodriguez's claims are not far fetched and call for substantiation or debunking. I hope to see Dr. R's claims substantiated in a scientifically acceptable manner, whatever that may be - I'm not an experiment designer. And in the meantime I suspect that I will try moderate treatments in some hives to see what I can see. I don't find Dr. R's claims to be beyond reason, neither do I see them as earth shattering as had been foreshadowed. I left his presentation thinking, "Hmmm, he may be on to something here." Whose sig is "Test everything, hold on to the good!"? Tom Elliot in Alaska? Regardless, a claim has been made and needs to be verified. It would be a disservice to kill the messenger. Thank you Pedro for sharing that which you believe to be true. I hope that those who examine your proposal find their results duplicate yours! Finally, it was truly a fascinating time in Norfolk! The opportunity to meet in person those who I've made E-quaintencs or with whom I've had business dealings was golden! The rewards reaped in the pursuit of bees continue to exceed my wildest expectations! Everyone should avail themselves of the opportunity to attend bee meetings, whether it's on a national, international or local level. The benefit of the interaction is invaluable! Aaron Morris - high on the thrill of ABF! ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 19:07:24 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Stan Sandler Subject: Re: Two Queen Colony Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hi Garrett: >I do rear my own queens hear in Ohio. All I need to rear queens by the end >of April (which is when I start) or any time is nice large colonies with >lots and lots of DRONES. The dandelion flow starts around mid April, that >gives them the stimulation they need to kick it in to high gear. Using the >two-queen system helps in getting those nice large colonies early spring >and so dose over wintering them in 3 deep hive bodies. Most of my >two-queening gets done around the second week of May but I start as early >as possible. Thanks for the explanation. We never expect dandelions until May. But I am still curious about one thing: If you start rearing queens at the end of April and then do your two-queening the second week of May does that mean you are giving the "uppers" queen cells? or virgins? Regards, Stan ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 12:39:53 +1100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Nick Wallingford Subject: Request: Bees for pollination... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Natalie Lima (nlima@rmc.edu) on behalf of her father is looking for someone to supply bees for pollination of varieties of squashes and hot peppers. His land is in Fredrick, Maryland, so they're looking for someone in northern Virginia or Maryland. Contact her direct if you're interested. (\ Nick Wallingford {|||8- home nickw@wave.co.nz (/ work nw1@boppoly.ac.nz NZ Beekeeping http://www.wave.co.nz/pages/nickw/nzbkpg.htm ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 18:49:16 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Bill Miller Subject: Re: open feeding & requeening pallets About open feeding being an invitation to the neighborhood bees, who may come complete with all manner of problems. Let us not forget that one form of open feeding is a nectar flow. I very much doubt that a field of bloom will be monopolized by only one apiary if there are others within flight distance. Personally, I do not do open feeding because of the robbing potential and the difficulty of controlling the feed input to individual colonies. But I wouldn't consider open feeding to be any more of a disease/mite spreading risk than a blooming locust tree. W. G. Miller Gaithersburg, MD ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 22:14:32 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Brian Tassey Subject: Re: open feeding & requeening pallets Jerry, I have often suspected that open feeding causes abnormal bee loss. One thing I've noticed is that actual feeding surface area is important. There is a great deal of difference to the the rate of consumption if the surface area is doubled. The visual losses (I'm not the most scientific guy) don't always go up with increased surface area, sometimes they decrease. I used that idea with my division board feeders (in each hive year-round) by putting another feed tube (now one at either end) in them. The bees don't go after the feed in such a rush as to drown each other any more and the rate of consumption is up by at least 25%. Anytime there's drowning it's usually related to the health of the colony. Thanks for verifying that with your counters. Brian Atwater, CA ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 23:58:29 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Doug Henry Subject: Re: open feeding In-Reply-To: <199701192149.OAA19354@bernie.compusmart.ab.ca> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Eric Abell, I was intrigued by your posting regarding feeding syrup in 45 gal drums. How do bees gain access if drum is covered in straw? How do bees continue to feed after they have been winter wrapped? Looking forward to your reply, Thanks Doug Henry Lockport Manitoba ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 03:35:00 GMT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Andy Nachbaur Organization: WILD BEE'S BBS (209) 826-8107 LOS BANOS, CA Subject: Beekeepers Love It? Ulee's Gold >Subject: Re: Ulee's Gold --- Movie AW>"Ulee Jackson (evocatively played by Peter Fonda) is a third generation >beekeeper---a stubborn, solitary man who lives with his two granddaughters Now this is not my unauthorized bio, but brings back to my memory another byte of information also un authored but on the wire last year. SOME BEEKEEPERS LOVE IT? In a recent national survey, 400 beekeepers were asked " What is the most unusual food to which you add honey? The answer is so outrageous I have put it below for only the adults in the group to read. The so called reporter does add that "it makes you wonder if being stung an average of 500 times anally affects the the taste buds of your average American beekeeper". *PAGE DOWN* For rest on this story. WARNING, answer below is not for those with week stomachs or those who suffer from inconsistency. Anises: The list of foods beekeepers say are enhanced by honey include such unlikely candidates as BROCCOLI, lASAGnA, PIZZA, SUMMER SAUSAGE, SAUERKRAUT AND CHICKEN LIVER PATE. (c)Knight-Ridder News Service and published by THE SALT LAKE TRIBUNE with a few changes by the OLd Drone sands permission. --- ~ QMPro 1.53 ~ ... He has heard the quail and beheld the honey-bee, ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 05:38:51 GMT Reply-To: mjensen@crl.com Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Mark Jensen Organization: No Junk Mail Subject: Re: bee venom and multiplpe scelerosis Comments: cc: tombeeski@aol.com In-Reply-To: <970121034858_1993123502@emout08.mail.aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Tue, 21 Jan 1997 03:48:59 -0500, you wrote: >All plea se help.I have aclose friend whosefather ,I discover, has been >bedridden with MS for 17 years. > >I would like to gather as many references to apitherapy and ms as = possible >for them. > >Please send to me at tombeeski@aol.com Try the following sites. http://www.shore.net/~spectrum/apitherapy.html http://www.beesting.com/ -- Mark Jensen Double J Apiaries mjensen@crl.com =20 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 01:06:27 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Robert Watson Subject: Re: Beekeepers Love It? Ulee's Gold Comments: To: Andy Nachbaur In-Reply-To: <970121204055331@beenet.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Wed, 22 Jan 1997, Andy Nachbaur wrote: > >Subject: Re: Ulee's Gold --- Movie > ... The so called reporter does add that "it makes you > wonder if being stung an average of 500 times anally affects the the > taste buds of your average American beekeeper". ??? 500 times where???? That's nowhere near the taste buds! Quite the opposite... :-) Rob ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 11:05:12 +0000 Reply-To: Janko.Bozic@uni-lj.si Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Janko Bozic Subject: Re: The largest swarm ? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT An artificial swarm I know a beekeeper hear in Slovenia, who is claiming that he is the one who carried the largest number of bees on man's body. He put 13kg of bees (app. 130,000 bees) on his body. This could be claimed as an artificial swarm. He said that this is the largest bee beard that has ever made. Name of this beekeeper is Franci Marolt. He lives in Sevnica, Slovenia. With regards, Janko ==================================================================== Dr. Janko Bozic University of Ljubljana Biotechnical Faculty, Department of Biology Vecna pot 111, p.p. 2995 1001 Ljubljana SLOVENIA tel. (386) 61-265-584, (386) 61-265-585 fax. (386) 61-273-390 e-mail: janko.bozic@uni-lj.si ==================================================================== SLOVENIA - Homeland of Carniolan Bee ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 15:40:03 +0100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: F Hogenboom Subject: thymol To whom it may concern, In the januari-APIS "Oils of essence" it is said: >however, the European product Apilife VAR (R), which has thyme oil and has shown good promise in mite control, also contains eucalyptol and menthol, which remain on the regulated list. This makes registration of that product necessary,...< The thymol-blend contains thymol (76%), camphor (3.8%), menthol (3.8%) and Eucalyptol (16,4%) -According to the literatur: -the varroamite-mortality of thymol is much higher than for the other essentiel oils. -Adding camphor to the thymol-blend is not affected to the mortality rate of the varroa-mites. -Eucalyptol has a too high mortality for the honey bees in relation to the mite-mortality. -Thymol, as powder, reduced the mite population more than 96%, without noticable damage to honey bees. -Menthol seems to be very useful to cope the T-mite, but I don't find any data for Varroamites. So I'm wondering why such a blend is being used. What is the exact role of camphor, menthol and eucalyptol? With thymol you will have no problem with the registration, as I understand. Some literatur: F.Chiesa (Apidologie 1991) M.Rickli et al.(Apidology 1991) A.Imdorf et al. (Apidologie 1994, 1995; Bee World 1995) N.W.Calderone et al. (J. of Econ. Entomology) Francois The Netherlands e-mail f.hogenboom.pharm@med.vu.nl ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 14:54:34 GMT Reply-To: Tim_Sterrett@westtown.edu Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Tim Sterrett Organization: Westtown School Subject: Re: Wax moths If this is wax moths, do I need to destroy them before instaling a package? Will bees keep them in check if I don't fumigate the hives? What is the preferred method of control? At this point in time (Jan. in SE Iowa), I doubt if I'll see anymore doamage this winter. Comments? A healthy colony of bees (in Pennsylvania, USA, at least) will keep wax moths in check. The moths should not be obvious in the colony. Control methods? Paradichlorobenzene crystals at the top of stacks of stored beeswax combs and cold weather. Once the weather gets down to freezing, wax moth activity stops. Many people store bee equipment outdoors or in an unheated shed to discourage wax moths. But remember to have para crystals ready for spring. Tim Tim Sterrett Westtown, (Southeastern) Pennsylvania, USA tim_sterrett@westtown.edu ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 20:11:59 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Garrett Dodds Subject: Re: Two Queen Colony Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hi, > >Thanks for the explanation. We never expect dandelions until May. But I am >still curious about one thing: If you start rearing queens at the end of April >and then do your two-queening the second week of May does that mean you are >giving the "uppers" queen cells? or virgins? I give them 11 day old cells (sometime virgins, if I can't get the splits made in time). I start as soon as possible raising queens but I start slow and I am in my highest production of cell around mid may (weather always slows me down). This only gives the queens 2 to 3 weeks to lay before the main flow, so I start the splits off fairly large, 5 frames of bees, 2 frames of honey and 3 of sealed brood. This helps kick that new queen into laying by giving her a large population of bees and plenty of room to lay. Garrett ***************** Garrett Dodds Custom Inseminations 29480 January Rd. West Mansfield, OH 43358 (937) 355-0290 e-mail dodds.12@osu.edu *********************** * Garrett Dodds * * 29480 January Road * * West Mansfield, OH 43358 * * (937) 355-0290 * * e-mail dodds.12@osu.edu * *--------------------------* * Custom Inseminations * ******************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 06:56:44 GMT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Sid Pullinger Subject: "Recent bug" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" RE David Fulton's query about a recent bug------- This can only refer to the Varroa mite as all our other diseases and infestations are ancient history. Even the V. mite is hardly new as it has been in almost the whole of Europe for the last ten to fifteen years. It was first found in southern England in 1992, spread rapidly and caused havoc. It is now endemic in half of the country and rapidly spreading north. We in the south are now recovering. It can be controlled but there is no future at present for feral stocks and the let-alone beekeeper. Bees now have to be managed. I find it strange that people still ask, What is Varroa? as it has received so much publicity for years. Sid P. _________________________________________________________________ Sid Pullinger Email : sidpul@aladdin.co.uk 36, Grange Rd Compuserve: 100343.1216@compuserve.com Alresford Hants SO24 9HF England ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 06:56:46 GMT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Sid Pullinger Subject: Advice to a beginner. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Gerry Visel's recent advice to a beginner's questions. <<<<. And get books and read, read, read! Nothing beats having someone local to show you the ropes, and demonstrate things hands-on. If you find other locals, also try to find a club that meets frequently, as each beekeeper has his own unique approaches. >>>>>> I think this advice should be repeated at intervals, loud and clear, on the list. It is obvious, from the elementary questions put to the list from time to time that many enthusiasts jump headfirst into beekeeping without any preparation. Here we firmly agree with Gerry,advising anyone wishing to start to first read a good book on the subject, join a local association if possible and work for a season with a friendly skilled beekeeper. Over a lifetime I have seen so many people start with enthusiasm only, not realising that beekeeping is a science and a skill. The result is no honey, dead colonies, disappointment and, at worse, a severe stinging of self, family or neighbours and the end of their beekeeping. Sid P. _________________________________________________________________ Sid Pullinger Email : sidpul@aladdin.co.uk 36, Grange Rd Compuserve: 100343.1216@compuserve.com Alresford Hants SO24 9HF England ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 06:56:49 GMT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Sid Pullinger Subject: Nosema Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Stan Sandler asks: Has there ever been any fumagillan resistance noticed? Is there any alternative treatment if resistance does develop? What biological control alternatives are available? The following extracts from two well known books on bee diseases might prove of interest. "Nosema has been found all over the world. In a sampling covering 43 States in America nosema was found in 66% of all the apiaries." "Nosema causes malnutrition, damages the glands which produce brood food and shortens the bee's life." "Fumagillin (Fumidil) is the only effective safe drug known. It should be fed to the colony in a sugar syrup. Applying it as a dust or in patties is much less effective." "To date (fumagillin is now 40 years old) extensive tests have failed to find that nosema has developed resistance." "Bees can recover from an attack but the spores remain in the hive and can become active if the bees are stressed." "Infected equipment can be decontaminated by acetic acid (easy to do), by ethylene oxide and controlled heating (not so easy)." "The spores are spread by contaminated faeces. In a long hard winter these are voided in the hive and spread when young bees clean up the mess." "Rough handling causing crushed bees also spreads the infection." "The most dangerous time to disturb colonies is during late winter and early spring, when the bees have been confined for long periods." May I add to the above that if a colony is found dead in the spring and the cause is not obvious (starvation, etc.) nosema is the likely cause. The same goes for a very weak stock coming out of winter. It is best destroyed rather than united to a healthy colony as the disease will go with it. The whole hive must be considered to be contaminated. All wooden parts should be flamed and the combs fumigated with acetic acid (it won't hurt the honey). Acetic acid (80% strength) is cheap but nasty so learn how to use it beforehand. I use an old refrigerator outside as a fume cupboard but the combs can be stacked as advised by David Eyre. May I conclude by suggesting that one of the books mentioned above should find a place on your bookshelf. Honey Bee Pests, Predators and Diseases by Doctor Roger Morse, ISBN O-8014-0975-6, American. Honey Bee Pathology by Doctor Leslie Bailey, ISBN O-12-073480-X, English. If Larry Connor reads this (LJConnor@AOL.COM) perhaps he will say if they are available in America and in England, Northern Bee Books, (Ruxbury@delphi.com). Sid P. _________________________________________________________________ Sid Pullinger Email : sidpul@aladdin.co.uk 36, Grange Rd Compuserve: 100343.1216@compuserve.com Alresford Hants SO24 9HF England ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 09:51:16 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jerry J Bromenshenk Subject: Apology to the List MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Hi; I'm sorry that this discuss has taken such a nasty turn and become a bother to the list. I hope we find a magic bullet, and if mineral oil turns out to be one of the oils that help control mites, great. Also, full speed ahead to understand the mechanism by which these chemicals affect mites - blocking of chemo-receptors, suffocation, whatever. I will still remain cautious. Like Adrian, we found that colonies usually collapse in the second or third year of a varroa infestation (48 colonies, sampled monthly for tracheal and varroa mites), 23,000 bees cut and the numbers of mites in each trachea recorded. Jerry Bromenshenk The University of Montana-Missoula jjbmail@selway.umt.edu ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 11:53:43 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Dave Green, Eastern Pollinator Newsletter" Subject: Re: Largest Swarm In a message dated 97-01-21 12:04:43 EST, hsa@GNV.IFAS.UFL.EDU (Hussein Sanchez-Arroyo) writes: << If you know or have information about the largest swarm (hopefully with a supporting reference), please send the information directly to me or post it to the list if you think your nomination is of general interest. I will acknowledge all substantive help in the final version of the chapter. >> Here in South Carolina whole yards tend to want to swarm at once, especially if they have been heavily fed. Two or more swarms may hang on the same limb, and often merge together. In the days before mites they sometimes were huge. A friend and I hived one such swarm (my guestimate: almost 2 bushels) that covered a five-foot shrub and the ground around it. I know we used several hives; if I recall correctly it was 4. We did not have any way to count workers and drones, but we were counting queens, and I'm sure we did not see all of them. At any rate we DID see 3 mated queens and 21 virgins. Most of the virgins we saved and added to nucs, though we were unable to catch every one. Apparently the instinct to fight is not present in the queens while bees are swarming. Pollinator@aol.com Dave Green, PO Box 1200, Hemingway, SC 29554 (Dave & Jan's Pollination Service, Pot o'Gold Honey Co.) Practical Pollination Home Page Dave & Janice Green http://users.aol.com/pollinator/polpage1.html Jan's Sweetness and Light Varietal Honeys and Gift Sets http://users.aol.com/SweetnessL/sweetlit.htm ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 16:46:26 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Joe Trattle <106170.150@compuserve.com> Subject: Wax Moths With reference to Randy Nesslers posting concerning wax moth in second hand equipment I would hartily recomend that you disinfect any second hand hives you intend to use. You may see evidence of wax moth but there may well be other diseases lurking which may not be apparent until its too late. Its a very simple process to seal up the hive with a saucer of 80% acetic acid on top of the frames for 1 week, then open it up and alow it to air for a couple of days. You can then be confident about giving your package the best start. Regards Joe Trattle Norfolk (UK) ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 16:05:04 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Eric Abell Subject: Re: open feeding Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 11:58 PM 21/01/97 -0600, you wrote: >Eric Abell, I was intrigued by your posting regarding feeding syrup in 45 >gal drums. > >How do bees gain access if drum is covered in straw? 4 inches of straw is enough. They simply crawl down through the straw. Often there will be a small 'lake' visible through the straw and they can feed at the edge of this. It seems that wheat straw works the best - it does not get 'water-logged' as easily as some and tends to stay dry. > >How do bees continue to feed after they have been winter wrapped? The bees still have a flight entrance. In my case they have both a bottom and top entrance. If it is your practice to wrap after the snow comes then, no, they will not feed because they do not fly. It is my practice to get feed out immediately after I finish extracting. Usually early September. I then start wrapping almost immediately, while continuing to refill the drums. Eric >Looking forward to your reply, > >Thanks Doug Henry >Lockport Manitoba > > Eric Abell Gibbons, Alberta Canada (403) 998 3143 eabell@compusmart.ab.ca ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 09:20:30 -0800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Peter Barrett Subject: Record Keeping MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Glyn Davies wrote: > has anyone devised a quick system of record keeping ....? =20 > Glyn Davies, Ashburton, Devon UKThe Australasian Beekeeper for Februar= y 1996 p.336 adapted an article on=20 record keeping from The Scottish Beekeeper, vol.72 no.10, author unknown.= =20 Article proposes a spreadsheet, column titles and a method of shorthand=20 to capture details. Details from the spreadsheet should then be entered=20 into a PC for sorting and analysis. I=92m going to have a go with Microso= ft=20 Excel and try it out on my hives then use Excels=92s sorting capability=20 once details are entered. Happy to share my experiences as it progresses.= =20 I suspect a refinement of this method using the data base tool Microsoft=20 Access would be the Rolls Royce method. I can scan and send the article=20 to those interested. Copyright should not be an issue. Peter Barrett,=20 Blue Mountains, 50 miles west of Sydney, Australia. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 18:27:55 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Peter Wilson Subject: Re: open feeding In-Reply-To: <199701222305.QAA07303@bernie.compusmart.ab.ca> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII I am personally against open barrel feeding but , for what it is worth, the best straw to use is WHEAT STRAW. This straw does not bind in the barrel. Best not to barrel feed IMHO Regards Peter Wilson Edmonton,Alberta Canada email: pjwilson@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 23:25:04 ARG Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Eduardo Varni Subject: Killer Hornet Dear Bee-listers... I am Eduardo Varni from Argentina and I own hives here. Since two years ago the production decresed 30% due one hornet who killed bees(Its scientific name is Mallophora Ruficauda).It hunt the bees on flight and at the same time it produce a frightening hum. This noise makes the bees remain in their hives. The female hornet laid his eggs on the low branches of trees and /or on wires of the fences .When the larvae are born,they fall to the ground and buried themselves .There, they await for soil worms to parasite during the winter.Then they reborn in summer as a killer hornet. This predator eats all kind of insects ,specially bees. We began a survey to fight against this predator, so we wish to receive same information or experiences about control methods ,sexuan Pheromones isolation or something else . Thanks in advance for your help. Regards *********************************** * * * Eduardo Varni * * eduardo@over1477.overnet.com.ar * *********************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 20:50:43 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Murray Lewis Subject: pine lumber-ponderosa,white MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I am attempting to locate a mill or mills who can supply me with 7/8"X full 10"pine lumber.If anyone on the list can give me any leads it would be very much appreciated.I am located in Manitoba so a mill in Ont.,Minn.,Western U.S. or Western Canada would be the most conv. I can be e-mailed at harmon@cpnet.net Thanks M.Lewis. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 20:37:15 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jerry J Bromenshenk Subject: Re: pine lumber-ponderosa,white In-Reply-To: <199701230254.UAA16354@vger.cpnet.net> from "Murray Lewis" at Jan 22, 97 08:50:43 pm MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The mill that sits across the street from Western Bee in Polson, Montana might be able to help. Dadant makes all of its wooden ware in Montana. It is cheaper to cut the trees into bee boxes at the source and ship the final product than it is to ship pine and fir to the midwest. Jerry Bromenshenk ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 09:08:50 -0500 Reply-To: beeworks@muskoka.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: David Eyre Organization: The Beeworks Subject: Re: Apology to the List {2} MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT On 22 Jan 97 at 9:51, Jerry J Bromenshenk wrote: Apology to the List > I'm sorry that this discuss has taken such a nasty turn and become a > bother to the list. I hope we find a magic bullet, and if mineral oil > I will still remain cautious. Like Adrian, we found that colonies > usually collapse in the second or third year of a varroa infestation (48 > colonies, sampled monthly for tracheal and varroa mites), 23,000 bees cut > and the numbers of mites in each trachea recorded. I don't think this matter has become a bother to the list! I agree we should all be looking for the magic bullet, I just hope that beekeepers everywhere will persevere in the search. There appears to be an attitude developing from some academics (present company excepted) to frown on beekeepers who try new ideas. They use predictions of doom and gloom as scare tactics but forget, we are the people who are desperatley trying to keep our bees alive. Would it be possible please to give a little more details regarding the second part of this post? Is this with or without treatment? ********************************************************* The Bee Works, 9 Progress Drive Unit 2, Orillia, Ontario, Canada. L3V 6H1 David Eyre, Owner. Phone/Fax 705 326 7171 Agents for E.H.Thorne & B.J.Sherriff UK http://www.muskoka.net/~beeworks ********************************************************* ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 19:17:57 -0800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Adony Melathopoulos Subject: RE : Medhat Nasr's e-mail MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Fellow Bee-Lers : Does any one Dr. Medhat Nasr's e-mail address or a reference to his work on the effects of tracheal mite infestation on worker thermoregulation ? Thank you in advance Cheers Adony *********************************** ** Adony P. Melathopoulos ********* *** Center for Pest Management **** **** Simon Fraser University ****** ***** Burnaby, British Columbia *** ****** Canada, V5A-1S6 ************ *********************************** Tel : (604) 291-4163 Fax : (604) 291-3496 e-mail : melathop@sfu.ca "The pursuit of agriculture promotes the strength of the mind as well as the body" - Rev. John L. Blake, 1853 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 23:19:53 -0500 Reply-To: dronebee@norfolk.infi.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Dr. Pedro Rodriguez" Organization: InfiNet Subject: Re: "Silver Bullet" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit bee-l@cnsibm.albany.edu wrote: > > Well, I'm back from ABF in Virginia! Attempting to catch up on mail is > an arduous task. I've been most interested in following the thread on > the 'silver bullet' announced by Dr. Rodriguez, and I want to add just > a bit. > > First, and most importantly, Dr. R. was very careful to note that his > proposal calls for 'FOOD GRADE' mineral oil (FGMO). Being of sound > constitution, I have no personal experience with mineral oil and will > make no claim that I know the difference between food grade mineral oil > and other mineral oil, but Dr. R. was very clear to make the distinction > that his studies used FOOD GRADE mineral oil. > > His procedure calls for a very little smear of FGMO on the wax paper > strips. He cautioned that too much FGMO will be detrimental to the > bees as well as the mites. His hypothesis regarding how the FGMO is > effective is that the FGMO gets into the spiracles of the mites (both > tracheal and varroa), thereby suffocating them. The spiracles of the > mites are much smaller than those of the bees, which is why a small > quantity of FGMO is recommended - copious amounts of FGMO would also > clog up the bees' spiracles. > > Regarding credits for this idea, to my knowledge this is the first > recommendation of mineral oil (food grade or otherwise) that I have > seen, and frankly Dr. R. expressed very little regard for 'credit' > beyond a thank you for sharing his findings. He struck me as a very > sincere man whose main concern was his bees, discovering a means to > defend them against the mites, and sharing with the beekeeping public > that which he found to be the demise of both tracheal and varroa > mites! > > I am aware of Diana's work, and was quick to start with vegetable > oil patties in my hives, long before I had the opportunity to read her > published work or hear her speak. I have followed closely the work of > Dr. Calderone and James Armine (and others) regarding essential oils, > although I haven't personally experimented with them. The reason I have > tried vegetable oil but not essential oils is one of concern over > putting the latter in my hives whereas in my mind vegetable oil is > less 'threatening'. > > And now I hear a claim that yet another oil may have positive results > in the war against mites. Dr. Rodriguez's claims are not far fetched > and call for substantiation or debunking. I hope to see Dr. R's claims > substantiated in a scientifically acceptable manner, whatever that may > be - I'm not an experiment designer. snip Dear Aaron: Thanks for your kind words. I use Food Grade Mineral Oil because it is totally safe and already approved for use in food processing in the USA; for that matter it might be in Canada also. I also use waxed paper (the kind sold at the stores for food wrapping) for the same reason: To keep honey and the beehive environment free of contaminants. You may have missed my point about the FGMO being effective in two ways: one because it blocks the spiracles (induces suffocation) and the other because it blocks the body pores through which the mites take in moisture from the environment (causing dehydration) So, as I indicated, there are two physiological avenues for it to be effective against the mites. Another important point that I mentioned at my short dissertation is that I make my applications every 15 days to interrupt the life cycle of the mites. If they are stopped as soon as they emerge from the cells not only they wont be available to penetrate the larvae again to breed but also they will die berfore they have the chance to parasitize the bees and render their debilitating effect. I have made my findings known to everyone because I hoped that the scientific community would jump on my idea and try to duplicate my findings (or disprove them). I must emphasize that I never called my work, MAGICAL, SILVER BULLET. Someone else did. I never made any claim that I have not tested out or that I can not substantiate. Perhaps because someone else gave it adjectives of whatever other description, some people got the wrong idea. Also, because I have been the subject of incredible discriminatory tactics during my younger years, I tend to be sensitive to ethnic remarks. I have served my country as well as the next citizen and perhaps more than many. I have earned my place in this society and will not telerate abuse. It is a disgrace for people who consider themselves educated to practice social injustice of any kind! I am sure that had I not been hispanic, my work would have been acclaimed by the same detractors who condemn it. Thanks again for being a good listener and for your kind words. Sincerely. Pedro > > > > Aaron Morris - high on the thrill of ABF! ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 08:12:46 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Kelley Rosenlund Subject: Re: Largest Swarm Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > We did not have any way to count workers and drones, but we were counting >queens, and I'm sure we did not see all of them. At any rate we DID see 3 >mated queens and 21 virgins. Most of the virgins we saved and added to nucs, >though we were unable to catch every one. Hello to all!!, How can you tell if a queen is mated or not? ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 10:33:24 -0800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Vince Coppola Subject: Re: Fumagillan resistance? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Stan Sandler wrote: > >One suggestion would be to find out if you have Nosema. > >1) Grasp an adult bee by the head and by the tip of abdomen and pull. With>a > >little prcatice the entire gut will be exposed. Look at the middle > >part, A normal bee's midgut will be darkened and "ringed", it will have > Many thanks to John Skinner for the above technique! Nosema is one of most I have found this "test" to be reliable only if positive. Often in a colony that shows nosema symptoms, the mid guts look normal yet a sample of the bees when sent to a lab will have high spore counts. The above test always agree with the lab when indication was positive. > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 11:33:28 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Joel W. Govostes" Subject: Re: pine lumber-ponderosa,white Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" (2nd try) regarding hive-body materials: I'm curious as to why some Canadian suppliers (incl. ARTB up till recently) furnish boxes made of full 7/8" material, while the US manufacturers only use 3/4" boards. (?) Is the Canadian standard for planed 1" board thickness different from that in USA? Also, what became of ARTB? Their equipment I procured from Betterbee was always excellent in quality and value, and clearly superior to the commercial grade US stuff. Last I knew there was at least one Canadian co. offering Jumbo Langstroth equipment (Chrysler). The US suppliers abandoned that decades ago. I wonder - are jumbo's more commonly used up there? ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 09:02:24 -0800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Kerry Clark of AGF 784-2225 fax (604) 784 2299" Subject: Re: RE : Medhat Nasr's e-mail In-Reply-To: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Medhat's email is mnasr@evbhort.uoguelph.ca the thermoregulation experiments are very interesting. KC ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 11:06:34 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Joel W. Govostes" Subject: Re: pine lumber-ponderosa,white Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I'm curious as to why some Canadian suppliers (incl. ARTB up till recently) furnish boxes made of full 7/8" material, while the US manufacturers only use 3/4" boards. (?) Is the Canadian standard for planed 1" board thickness different from that in USA? Also, what became of ARTB? Their equipment I procured from Betterbee was always excellent in quality and value, and clearly superior to the commercial grade US stuff. Last I knew there was at least one Canadian co. offering Jumbo Langstroth equipment (Chrysler). The US suppliers abandoned that decades ago. I wonder - are jumbo's more commonly used up there? ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 13:27:14 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Carl H. Powell" Subject: Re: Hive outbreak from st -=> Quoting Int:bee-l@cnsibm.albany.e to Watchman <=- In> Carl, please post any more information about desensitization, on the In> List. When we were in the bee business I discovered that I had a life In> threatening allergy to bees, but was desensitized via a medical doctor. In> I would still be very interested in any method to keep up that In> desensitization. Kathryn Hi Kathryn, Here are the points of contact for information on Apitherapy given at the ABF/Norfolk forum: "The Bee Lady" Pat Wagner 5431 Lucy Drive Waldorf, MD 10601 (301) 843-8350 American Apitherapy Society Kate Chatot, Office co-ordinator P.O.Box 54 Hartland Four Corners VT, 05049 (802) 436-2708 (802) 436-2827 (fax) note: Please be aware that Pat Wagner's phone number is her home number. Requests to her for initial information without a specific need may wish to use snailmail or call the AAS first during regular business hours EST. Hope this helps! Carl Powell Watchman@qwick.net Tidewater,Va. ... RAM = Rarely Adequate Memory ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 10:43:58 -0800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Roy Nettlebeck Subject: Re: Where's the bullet? Comments: To: "Dr. Pedro Rodriguez" In-Reply-To: <32E4EE35.724F@norfolk.infi.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Tue, 21 Jan 1997, Dr. Pedro Rodriguez wrote: > bee-l@cnsibm.albany.edu wrote: > > THE ONLY WAY they can: making > ridicule of things that they have not done! Right Mr. Bromenshek? You > know what I am talking about, don't you? I wonder what your words will > be when beekeepers find that my findings are useful? You'll find > something, wont you? Your kind always does. I would like to have your > postal address so that I may send you a nice Crow and a box of tissues > to wipe the egg off your face. Dear Pedro , I feel sorry for you.Before you go out attacking Jerry or anyone else , read what they are saying.You want this to be a war. We need real fixs and people working together.We are not calling your work a hoax. I will say that you are wrong about others not using mineral oil. I have!You are writting to thousands of years of beekeeping expierence. We are reading your posting.I would suggest that you keep them professional so people don't get into a habit of pushing the D button when they see your name.By the way , Jerry is a very highly regarded researcher and has done much for beekeeping.He works (with ) everyone and has respect from the beekeeping community , plus other researchers. Just to let you know my background, I was a resource manager over 3,000 people up to the time I retired 3 + years ago.I had to put the right people in the right place , so we could get our jobs done. Some were nuclear , some were dealing with Haz-material.Many rules to follow and you never jumped in with your eyes closed.I was responsible to up hold all the rules of the EPA. ( 5000 pages on PC'Bs alone) I had to understand people and could see someone blowing smoke a mile off. I did not attack you.Science is science and it takes had data and then many more tests by others to get the whole group to belive it.Albert Einstein did not publish or let his work out for 2 years because he had such a high regard for Rutherfurd. He was going to change all of science. Plus he had no proofs.We are just now being able to prove out some of his ideas.It is better to lay out the facts on the table and let them speak for themselves.Its like raising children, it is not what you say, but it is what you do that the children follow.On that count , I have 2 at the U of Wash and the other one in a private school.I belive in education and continue to go to school at 55.Now I'm trying to lean these machines.We have many varried skills on this list and need all of them for it to work well.The only war we need is against Varroa and Viruses. Best Regards Roy ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 13:53:08 -0500 Reply-To: dronebee@norfolk.infi.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Dr. Pedro Rodriguez" Organization: InfiNet Subject: Re: Where's the bullet? Comments: To: Roy Nettlebeck MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Roy Nettlebeck wrote: > > On Tue, 21 Jan 1997, Dr. Pedro Rodriguez wrote: > > > bee-l@cnsibm.albany.edu wrote: > > > > THE ONLY WAY they can: making > > ridicule of things that they have not done! Right Mr. Bromenshek? You > > know what I am talking about, don't you? I wonder what your words will > > be when beekeepers find that my findings are useful? You'll find > > something, wont you? Your kind always does. I would like to have your > > postal address so that I may send you a nice Crow and a box of tissues > > to wipe the egg off your face. > > Dear Pedro , I feel sorry for you.Before you go out attacking Jerry or > anyone else , read what they are saying.You want this to be a war. We need > real fixs and people working together.We are not calling your work a hoax. > I will say that you are wrong about others not using mineral oil. I > have!You are writting to thousands of years of beekeeping expierence. We > are reading your posting.I would suggest that you keep them professional > so people don't get into a habit of pushing the D button when they see > your name.By the way , Jerry is a very highly regarded researcher and has > done much for beekeeping.He works (with ) everyone and has respect from > the beekeeping community , plus other researchers. > Just to let you know my background, I was a resource manager over 3,000 > people up to the time I retired 3 + years ago.I had to put the right > people in the right place , so we could get our jobs done. Some were > nuclear , some were dealing with Haz-material.Many rules to follow and you > never jumped in with your eyes closed.I was responsible to up hold all the > rules of the EPA. ( 5000 pages on PC'Bs alone) I had to understand people > and could see someone blowing smoke a mile off. I did not attack > you.Science is science and it takes had data and then many more tests by > others to get the whole group to belive it.Albert Einstein did not publish > or let his work out for 2 years because he had such a high regard for > Rutherfurd. He was going to change all of science. Plus he had no > proofs.We are just now being able to prove out some of his ideas.It is > better to lay out the facts on the table and let them speak for > themselves.Its like raising children, it is not what you say, but it is > what you do that the children follow.On that count , I have 2 at the U of > Wash and the other one in a private school.I belive in education and > continue to go to school at 55.Now I'm trying to lean these machines.We > have many varried skills on this list and need all of them for it to work > well.The only war we need is against Varroa and Viruses. > Best Regards > Roy WHY THEN ATTACK MY WORK WITHOUT THE SLIGHTEST IDEA OF WHAT IS CONSISTS? YES, THERE IS A WAR, I WOULD SAY! VERY PERSONNAL AT THAT! AGAINST ONE DR. PEDRO RODRIGUEZ. GOOD BYE DO GOODDERS! ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 11:36:43 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Adrian Wenner Subject: Re: Approaching a Congress Member Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To BEE-L Subscribers: We have a new member of congress to represent our district in Washington and will inform him about the plight of beekeepers in this country. Toward that end, a friend and I are furnishing him with input about the importance of beekeeping and the extreme problems the U.S. citizens face. As a part of that effort, I wrote a "Fact Sheet" about varroa mites and the threat they pose to the nation. Since others on the list also might wish to approach those who represent them, I feel it appropriate to share my effort. All who wish have my permission to use the following text and to modify it in any way suitable for their particular circumstance. Even those in other countries might be able to adapt the text for those who represent them. The text we will provide our member of congress reads as follows: ************* FACT SHEET: HONEY BEES AND VARROA MITES The varroa mite (Varroa jacobsoni), an incredible animal in its own right, was first described as a parasite on Apis cerana, the Asian honey bee - its only host species at that time. The general acceptance of European honey bees (Apis mellifera) as the bee of commerce throughout most of the world led to certain regions having both of those honey bee species in close proximity. Under the circumstances, perhaps a single varroa mite (they are parthenogenic) succeeded in parasitizing an A. mellifera colony, as first noticed in central China in 1956. The rapid spread of that parasitic mite among European honey bee colonies since then has been phenomenal. In a 1993 book (Mobus, B. and C. de Bruyn. THE NEW VARROA HANDBOOK. Northern Bee Books, Mytholmroyd, England) one can read: (p. 32) "The spread of the mite is a relentless advance within a country..." and (p. 31) "The constant redistribution of mites within an infected country through drones, drifting, and silent robbing is sufficient to re-infect all hives..." In the less than five decades since varroa mites adapted to European honey bees, no infested nation has stopped the spread. Other details of the varroa mite's spectacular worldwide spread need not be treated here. In the U.S. a Florida beekeeper apparently illegally imported some queens for breeding stock in about 1984, with the varroa mite included but unnoticed. That introduction followed on the heels of an invasion by another debilitating parasitic mite species (the tracheal mite) a few years earlier. No one recognized that a potentially catastrophic problem existed in the U.S. until 1987, when some honey bee colonies collapsed in Wisconsin and Florida. Varroa mites appeared in Ventura County already in 1989 - the first official record within California. William Bushing and I published a summary of the spread of this mite in the United States (BEE CULTURE - June 1996). In less than 10 years varroa mites ravaged bee colonies in all states but Hawaii. Both feral (wild) bee colonies and commercial hives throughout our nation have collapsed with time unless treated. Nine-tenths of a colony's mites reproduce within sealed brood cells, meaning we have no "quick fix" for the problem. Instead, to control mites one must insert miticide strips into all colonies at great expense, keep them there for about six weeks, and then remove them. To produce chemical-free honey, they have to do that manipulation at times when honey stores do not accumulate. That practice proves especially difficult for Southern California beekeepers, who must employ that routine twice a year. Not just beekeepers but all Americans suffer from this scourge. Backyard gardeners in many parts of the country suddenly find little or no fruit set on their trees. Commercial growers now must pay very high fees to beekeepers for pollination services, since beekeepers must expend up to $50 annually just to keep each colony alive. An additional problem for the future: in some regions of the world, varroa mites have already become resistant to the only miticide currently approved for use in the U.S. The severity of this problem for the U.S. public, thus, cannot be overemphasized. Adrian M. Wenner - 23 January 1997 Adrian M. Wenner (805) 893-2838 (UCSB office) Ecol., Evol., & Marine Biology (805) 893-8062 (UCSB FAX) Univ. of Calif., Santa Barbara (805) 963-8508 (home office & FAX) Santa Barbara, CA 93106 *********************************************************************** * "THIS LIFE may be the only chance you'll ever get to show what * * you can do." Pot-Shots #6923 * * Copyright, Ashleigh Brilliant --- used with permission * *********************************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 15:26:37 -0500 Reply-To: beeworks@muskoka.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: David Eyre Organization: The Beeworks Subject: Re: Largest Swarm MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT On 22 Jan 97 at 11:53, Dave Green, Eastern Pollinato wrote: Re: Largest Swarm > Here in South Carolina whole yards tend to want to swarm at once, > especially if they have been heavily fed. Two or more swarms may hang on the > same limb, and often merge together. > > In the days before mites they sometimes were huge. A friend and I hived > one such swarm (my guestimate: almost 2 bushels) that covered a five-foot > shrub and the ground around it. I know we used several hives; if I recall > correctly it was 4. I think you deserve the bragging trophy for this one. Incredible!! I have never heard of swarms joining together, is this an isolated occurence, or have you seen this at other times. ********************************************************* The Bee Works, 9 Progress Drive Unit 2, Orillia, Ontario, Canada. L3V 6H1 David Eyre, Owner. Phone/Fax 705 326 7171 Agents for E.H.Thorne & B.J.Sherriff UK http://www.muskoka.net/~beeworks ********************************************************* ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 14:50:39 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jerry J Bromenshenk Subject: web page revamp MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Hi: We are in the process of revamping our web page. What started as a research page has added a kid's corner. Given all of the comments and all of the pages on the web, we would like to know what people would most like to see on a page about beekeeping, the industry, problems, etc. We can't use every idea, but we would sure like some input. We intend to expand the children's section, add links to other sites, and provide information useful to beekeeper's and the industry. So, please send us your wish list. Jerry J. Bromenshenk The University of Montana jjbmail@selway.umt.edu ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 21:01:32 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Mike Worrell Subject: Re: Request: Bees for pollination... Contact Ernie Minor @ 301-898-9290. He is a Maryland bee inspector, lives right outside of Frederick and does pollination himself. If he is booked he could certainly recommend someone. Tell him I said Hi. Mike Worrell ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 22:11:18 -0500 Reply-To: Ian Watson Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ian Watson Subject: Re: Where's the bullet? In-Reply-To: <32E7B394.1889@norfolk.infi.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Alright Already!..... I think some of us need to remember our netiquet.... The most important part of which is this: When writing to someone in email, write as though the recipient is sitting across the computer desk from you. I really think we need to quit with all the bickering about Dr. Rodriguez findings. It appears he has spent an awfull lot of time and effort on his research. I think the appropriate thing to do is USE this treatment in the Spring. I think it will work; it sounds logical. If it doesn't work, then lets try to find another treatment. Anything else, like the pot shots directed at the Doctor, is rude. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- To Dr. Rodriguez I think I speak for the vast majority of the List when I say that I sincerely appreciate your hard work and dedication to the Honeybees, as well as sharing your work with us. Thank you very much... Ian :) @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ @ Ian Watson @ @ iwatson@freenet.npiec.on.ca @ @ @ @ THREE BEES: @ @ Bach singer ,/// @ @ Bee keeper >8'III}- @ @ Bell ringer ',\\\ @ @ @ @ 5 hives, 2 years in Beekeeping @ @ St. Catharines, Canada @ @ "I BEE, therefore I am" @ @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 09:15:25 +0000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Dave Black Subject: Off-topic (Germany) MIME-Version: 1.0 I've been trying this on the newsgroup for a week with no success, can anyone here help ? "I would like to make contact with Beekeepers in Freiburg, Germany, (Guildford's Twin-Town) Can anyone help ?" -- Dave Black <http://www.guildford.ac.uk/beehive>, Guildford, GU1 4RN. UK. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 09:02:33 -0500 Reply-To: beeworks@muskoka.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: David Eyre Organization: The Beeworks Subject: Re: Largest Swarm MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT On 23 Jan 97 at 8:12, Kelley Rosenlund wrote: Re: Largest Swarm > > We did not have any way to count workers and drones, but we were counting > >queens, and I'm sure we did not see all of them. At any rate we DID see 3 > >mated queens and 21 virgins. Most of the virgins we saved and added to nucs, > >though we were unable to catch every one. > > How can you tell if a queen is mated or not? She's the one with a big smile on her face!! ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 08:57:43 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Aaron Morris Subject: Largest swarm MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT > > How can you tell if a queen is mated or not? > > She's the one with a big smile on her face!! Usually smoking a cigarette too! ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 16:04:37 +0000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Seppo Korpela Subject: Re: Off-topic (Germany) MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT > > "I would like to make contact with Beekeepers in Freiburg, Germany, > (Guildford's Twin-Town) Can anyone help ?" > -- > Dave Black > <http://www.guildford.ac.uk/beehive>, > Guildford, GU1 4RN. UK. > Dr. Wolfgang Ritter at Tierhygienisches Institut Freiburg is reachable via fax + 49 761 15 02 299 If you contact him, he probably can inform you on local beekeeping associations and people to contact. ============================================================================= * Seppo Korpela Agricultural Research Center of Finland * Phone INT + 358 3 4188 576 Institute of Plant Protection * FAX INT + 358 3 4188 584 FIN-31600 Jokioinen * E-mail seppo.korpela@mtt.fi Finland * http://www.agronet.fi/mtt/ksl/kotisi/skorpela.htm ============================================================================= ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 00:29:05 -0800 Reply-To: "bjhensel@metro.net"@metro.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: BRIAN HENSEL <"bjhensel@metro.net"@METRO.NET> Subject: Re: Where's the bullet? HE LEFT! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ian Watson wrote: > > Alright Already!..... > I think some of us need to remember our netiquet.... > The most important part of which is this: > > When writing to someone in email, write as though the recipient is > sitting across the computer desk from you. > > I really think we need to quit with all the bickering about Dr. > Rodriguez findings. It appears he has spent an awfull lot of time and > effort on his research. I think the appropriate thing to do is USE this > treatment in the Spring. I think it will work; it sounds logical. If it > doesn't work, then lets try to find another treatment. Anything else, > like the pot shots directed at the Doctor, is rude. > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > To Dr. Rodriguez > > I think I speak for the vast majority of the List when I say that I > sincerely appreciate your hard work and dedication to the Honeybees, > as well as sharing your work with us. > Thank you very much... > > Ian :) > @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ > @ Ian Watson @ > @ iwatson@freenet.npiec.on.ca @ > @ @ > @ THREE BEES: @ > @ Bach singer ,/// @ > @ Bee keeper >8'III}- @ > @ Bell ringer ',\\\ @ > @ @ > @ 5 hives, 2 years in Beekeeping @ > @ St. Catharines, Canada @ > @ "I BEE, therefore I am" @ > @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ THANKS IAN!!!!!!!! I could not agree with Ian more. I'm sorry to say that Dr. Pedro Rodrequez, has informed me that he has signed off of Bee-L. As I stated earlier, I was afraid that this would happen. It's sad to see that if a person has an idea and they post it here, that they better have a thick hide. This is a real shame. BRIAN HENSEL ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 08:53:17 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Eric Abell Subject: Re: open feeding Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 06:27 PM 22/01/97 -0700, you wrote: >I am personally against open barrel feeding but , for what it is worth, >the best straw to use is WHEAT STRAW. This straw does not bind in the >barrel. > >Best not to barrel feed IMHO Peter, You may be right! but I would be interested in knowing why you are aginst open barrel feeding. Eric > >Regards > >Peter Wilson >Edmonton,Alberta >Canada > > email: pjwilson@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca > > Eric Abell Gibbons, Alberta Canada (403) 998 3143 eabell@compusmart.ab.ca ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 10:30:20 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ian Watson Subject: Re: Largest Swarm Comments: To: David Eyre In-Reply-To: <199701241404.JAA11882@segwun.muskoka.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Fri, 24 Jan 1997, David Eyre wrote: > On 23 Jan 97 at 8:12, Kelley Rosenlund wrote: Re: Largest Swarm > > > How can you tell if a queen is mated or not? > > She's the one with a big smile on her face!! hehehehe...Thanks, David, for the well timed injection of humour.....:) @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ @ Ian Watson @ @ iwatson@freenet.npiec.on.ca @ @ @ @ THREE BEES: @ @ Bach singer ,/// @ @ Bee keeper >8'III}- @ @ Bell ringer ',\\\ @ @ @ @ 5 hives, 2 years in Beekeeping @ @ St. Catharines, Canada @ @ "I BEE, therefore I am" @ @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 09:27:55 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jerry J Bromenshenk Subject: stamps MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Hi: We have some really pretty stamps from China. We thought it might be fun to post bee images from stamps on our web site for kids (yound and old). Question - I assume stamp images would be considered public domain, but maybe we have a philatelist in the group who can respond to this issue. I don't colect stamps, but just got a great one of a queen and two workers on the comb (from China) (never posted) and have bees in flight visiting flowers (on a letter that I got) - again from China. If it is legal to publish these images, and if people would be willing to send us stamps, we could scan them and send them back. Thanks Jerry Bromenshenk The University of Montana jjbmail@selway.umt.edu ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 16:28:36 +0000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Mick Mayhew Subject: SILVER BULLET and the silent majority Comments: To: dronebee@NORFOLK.INFI.NET Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I am mailing this to Pedro Rodriguez as well as to the list because I understand that he has withdrawn from the list. I am a regular reader of the list but a very infrequent contributor - I guess there are many members like me, possibly even a majority. The lack of tolerance displayed recently by a group with a strong common interest dismays me. We all suffer a common problem with varroa and there are many possible paths to a solution. Who knows which one will succeed? I am an academic with many year's experience ( so many that I'm about to retire and spend much more time with my bees) so I understand the need for thoroughness in research. What I have learnt is that ALL research is based on someone else's ideas so why all the fuss about Pedro not being the first to use oil (mineral or otherwise). I also understand that ideas need to be tested properly before we can be sure how effective they are. It seems from Pedro's comments so far that he hasn't done enough testing to qualify as scientific proof - but has he claimed this? What he has conveyed to me is that he has tried a treatment which he is convinced DOES work and which I think MIGHT work. It would be a disaster for me and many like me if the intolerance of a few members prevents me from learning enough to decide whether I want to try the method ior not. Mick Mayhew csx005@coventry.ac.uk 01203-838910 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 17:24:40 +0000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Dave Black Subject: Re: Where's the bullet? HE LEFT! Comments: To: "bjhensel@metro.net"@metro.net In-Reply-To: <06303778004768@metro.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 In message <06303778004768@metro.net>, BRIAN HENSEL <"bjhensel@metro.net "@METRO.NET> writes > It's sad to see that if a >person has an idea and they post it here, that they better have a thick >hide. This is a real shame. and Mick Mayhew wrote; >The lack of >tolerance displayed recently by a group with a strong common interest >dismays me...... >I also understand that ideas need to be >tested properly before we can be sure how effective they are. It seems >from Pedro's comments so far that he hasn't done enough testing to >qualify as scientific proof - but has he claimed this? Aren't we being a little over sensitive here ? This is a discussion list. You will meet opposition as well as support. If you aren't prepared to encounter and cope with rational criticism and confidently express your ideas clearly don't post. That's life. Very often it is only in the dialogue that we refine our ideas so that we do know what we think ! ('Fraid I won't be here to argue 'till Monday) -- Dave Black <http://www.guildford.ac.uk/beehive>, Guildford, GU1 4RN. UK. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 10:53:00 PST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ivan McGill Subject: Re: SILVER BULLET and the silent majority Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >I am mailing this to Pedro Rodriguez as well as to the list because I >understand that he has withdrawn from the list. > >I am a regular reader of the list but a very infrequent contributor - I >guess there are many members like me, possibly even a majority. The lack of >tolerance displayed recently by a group with a strong common interest >dismays me. We all suffer a common problem with varroa and there are many >possible paths to a solution. Who knows which one will succeed? > >I am an academic with many year's experience ( so many that I'm about to >retire and spend much more time with my bees) so I understand the need for >thoroughness in research. What I have learnt is that ALL research is based >on someone else's ideas so why all the fuss about Pedro not being the first >to use oil (mineral or otherwise). I also understand that ideas need to be >tested properly before we can be sure how effective they are. It seems from >Pedro's comments so far that he hasn't done enough testing to qualify as >scientific proof - but has he claimed this? > >What he has conveyed to me is that he has tried a treatment which he is >convinced DOES work and which I think MIGHT work. It would be a disaster for me >and many like me if the intolerance of a few members prevents me from learning >enough to decide whether I want to try the method ior not. Mick Mayhew >csx005@coventry.ac.uk 01203-838910 I do not contribute much to the list but the people who do should not be ridiculed for doing so. Everyone has their own ideas about beekeeping and how they do it is their business, good or bad as long as it doesn't effect others. If we do not learn from other places then we are no a narrow trail to nowhere. Not all things work the same as some of you know. Any idea good or bad should not be discarded as no worth of a test. When I was a pressman apprentice so far back I don't want to remember the the journeyman that was teaching me was from Sweden. He said learn all you can from everyone, keep the good and discard what won't work for you. With the same in mind I approach beekeeping the same way regardless of what others have to say. Thank you to all for contributing to the list. Ivan Prince George, B.C. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 15:38:56 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: MIDNITEBEE Subject: web site/beeswax listing MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit http://www.cybertours.com/~midnitebee/ I have included my beeswax listing on my web site.Please review and let me know if the information is correct.If you like to be added email me directly.The site is located on my bee links page. Midnitebee(Herb) BTW-web site is not complete.I still need to add local bee clubs. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 13:31:20 -0800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: John Volpe Subject: inbreeding Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hello, Some literature I have read recently suggests that workers, in their queen selection, will choose those larva most closely related to themselves (ie larvae that were fathered by drones produced from the home hive as opposed to those larvae fathered by drones from other hives). This presents two questions; How do colonies minimize inbreeding depression generated by this kin selection? What is/are the que(s) used by the workers in evaluating the genetic relatedness among potential queens? Any information on this would be appreciated - are any of you working on these questions or know a group which is? Cheers, John --------------------------------------------------------- John P. Volpe Centre for Environmental Health Dept. of Biology - University of Victoria PO Box 3020, Victoria, British Columbia, CANADA V8W 3N5 TEL. (250) 721 7098 FAX. (250) 472 4075 jvolpe@uvic.ca "I've always thought that underpopulated countries in Africa are vastly underpolluted." -- Lawrence Summers, chief economist of the World Bank, explaining why we should export toxic wastes to Third World countries. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 17:15:04 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Victor E Sten Subject: Re: stamps Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Jerry wrote: >Hi: We have some really pretty stamps from China. We thought it might be >fun to post bee images from stamps on our web site for kids (yound and >old). > >Question - I assume stamp images would be considered public domain, but >maybe we have a philatelist in the group who can respond to this issue. > >I don't colect stamps, but just got a great one of a queen and two workers >on the comb (from China) (never posted) and have bees in flight >visiting flowers (on a letter that I got) - again from China. > >If it is legal to publish these images, and if people would be willing to >send us stamps, we could scan them and send them back. > >Thanks > >Jerry Bromenshenk >The University of Montana >jjbmail@selway.umt.edu > I am a stamp collector and can assure you that you will not run into troble; publishing stamp inages without permission from the issuer is done all the time. The issuer will look upon it as free advertising for selling stamps to collectors so do not hesitate to go ahead with your project. Viktor in Hawkesbury, Ontario. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 22:43:10 GMT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Glyn Davies Subject: Book Search Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Dear Bee-Liners, I am searching for a book now out of print. Any suggestions re a good place to look? Our UK Bee book specialists cannot help. " Bees of the World", O'Toole & Raw, Pub. Blanford, UK Thanks, Glyn Davies, Ashburton, Devon, UK ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 14:50:32 -0800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Diane Zytniak Subject: Re: Book Search MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I don't know if www.amazon.com has connections for out of print books, but I have had success in locating difficult to find books. >---------- >From: Glyn Davies[SMTP:buzz@mail.zynet.co.uk] >Sent: Friday, January 24, 1997 2:43 PM >To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU >Subject: Book Search > >Dear Bee-Liners, > >I am searching for a book now out of print. Any suggestions re a good place to >look? > Our UK Bee book specialists cannot help. > >" Bees of the World", O'Toole & Raw, Pub. Blanford, UK > >Thanks, > >Glyn Davies, Ashburton, Devon, UK > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 21:34:31 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Juergen Jaenicke Subject: Re: web site/beeswax listing Add to your Web site: Juergen Jaenicke, editor "Beeline" the official newsletter of the Long Island Beekeepers Club. E-Mail jj imker@aol.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 01:36:00 GMT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Andy Nachbaur Organization: WILD BEE'S BBS (209) 826-8107 LOS BANOS, CA Subject: Re: SILVER BULLET and the silent majority IM>I do not contribute much to the list but the people who do should not be >ridiculed for doing so. Hi All, I did not read any ridicule in any of the posts, maybe I missed it. >Everyone has their own ideas about beekeeping and how they do it >is their business, good or bad as long as it doesn't effect others. I would say that anyone who pretend's to bee part of the professional scientific community must be aware of peer review, and that's exactly what you get here if you post your ideas and you don't have to be a professional bee scientist to boot. In my opinion we may give a better review then the norm because of our personal experiences which I can assure all is much different then those found in the liberal academic community and from my own experience one that is appreciated more then most would admit by that community which is highly politicized. Maybe we are not the politically correct reviewers expected from more sophisticated peer groups, but then we bee keepers are not sure if we are beekeepers or just keepers of bees anyway, and it never made me no never mind if keeping the "white man's fly" or honey bees or honeybees was correct as long as my bee gum's are full of healthy bees. IM>If we do not learn from other places then we are no a narrow trail to >nowhere. Not all things work the same as some of you know. Any idea good or >bad should not be discarded as no worth of a test. It is hard to grow old without learning a little something, and one thing I learned is that those who want to be heard do not run away, and those who do run have little faith in their message and may have a faulty message that can not stand the light of the enlightened beekeepers inquisitive mind's, air heads, pin heads, and block heads that we all can bee. IM>When I was a pressman apprentice so far back I don't want to remember the >the journeyman that was teaching me was from Sweden. He said learn all you >can from everyone, keep the good and discard what won't work for you. With >the same in mind I approach beekeeping the same way regardless of what Beekeeping itself has relative few old successful participants who follow a precise plan or set of rules as it is the variability of nature that determines the yield of the hive and one soon learns that the rule is that variability itself and understanding it is more rewarding then fighting it. In short there is no one who has experienced it all and the fun is in the experience good and bad. Those who say they have found the "gold key" to keeping you bees healthy should be approached with a jaundice eye as many have treaded that path before only to leave us with much experience, less cash, and more the cynic. ttul, the OLd Drone (c) Permission is granted to freely copy this document in any form, or to print for any use. (w)Opinions are not necessarily facts. Use at own risk. --- ~ QMPro 1.53 ~ ... He has heard the quail and beheld the honey-bee, ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 02:04:00 GMT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Andy Nachbaur Organization: WILD BEE'S BBS (209) 826-8107 LOS BANOS, CA Subject: NEWS from Calif. & the Law of averages _ _ _______ ______ _____ _ _ _ | \ | | ____\ \ / / ___| | ___| | __ _ ___| |__ | | | \| | _| \ \ /\ / /\___ \ | |_ | |/ _` / __| '_ \ | | | |\ | |___ \ V V / ___) | | _| | | (_| \__ \ | | | |_| |_| \_|_____| \_/\_/ |____/ |_| |_|\__,_|___/_| |_| (_) The first blooms of the almond pollination season are opening and its wet, it's starting to rain again with a guarantee of one to eight inches depending on who you listen too, and some have been listening and the central California dams have been opened just in case, causing rivers to fill bank to bank with flooding in the low lands. If the rains come as predicted, the past months floods will look like good times compared to what can happed in the flat central valley when all is full, earth, dams, creeks, and rivers, and along comes a good old frog strangler. Beekeepers are starting to move their bees into the almond orchards that have good roads and finished their dormant spraying. Many orchards have yet to be sprayed and with little dormant weather are now in a condition to bloom as the buds are swelling because of the warm tropical storms that continue to visit. The total loss of bees and their hives from the earlier floods may never be know as little effort has been made to make a accurate count as the majority of the loss were out of state bees anyway. Early reports of bee hives seen in the rivers for 100 miles were more then likely accurate as if all the bees in the almonds were placed end to end down the middle of highway 99 they would reach from Bakersfield to Mt Shasta with not gaps. My own guess is that between 8% and 10% of the 900,000 hives that are in the state were lost and washed out to sea by way of San Francisco bay. ttul Andy- (c) Permission is granted to freely copy this document in any form, or to print for any use. (w)Opinions are not necessarily facts. Use at own risk. 12496 --- ~ QMPro 1.53 ~ May the Carrier be with you. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 18:29:36 -0900 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Tom Elliott Subject: Re: inbreeding MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit John Volpe wrote: > How do colonies minimize inbreeding depression generated by this kin selection? I do not have any 'scientific' data, but I do remember reading in more than one place that queens normally fly further from their hive to mate than do drones. This would eliminate or minimize inbreeding, provided that there were a variety of genetic backgrounds in the area. - - - - - - - - - - - - "Test everything. Hold on to the good." (1 Thessalonians 5:21) Tom Elliott Eagle River, Alaska U.S.A. beeman@alaska.net ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 04:20:03 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: MIDNITEBEE Subject: addition MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit http://www.cybertours.com/~midnitebee/ I would like to add another page! This time it will be about beekeepers that sell their honey to their neighbors.Another great way to promote bees and beekeeping.Don't you think? I will need your name and email or home address.Please send information to my email address,not to the Bee-L. Midnitebee(Herb) midnitebee@cybertours.com BTW- Instead of buying Cheerios and eating all does nasty chemicals,IMHO,can we not as a group,donate 10 cents to the bee research labs.(ie)Sell honey and beeswax,through our local bee clubs,and donate a portion of the proceeds? ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 08:09:18 -0600 Reply-To: dvisrael@earthlink.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Donald Israel Subject: Re: Book Search MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Glyn Davies wrote: > > Dear Bee-Liners, > > I am searching for a book now out of print. Any suggestions re a good place to > look? > Our UK Bee book specialists cannot help. > > " Bees of the World", O'Toole & Raw, Pub. Blanford, UK > > Thanks, > > Glyn Davies, Ashburton, Devon, UK You might try BES& Wicwas press AT ljconnor@aol.com They have many out-of-print items available. Don ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 08:31:20 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Joel W. Govostes" Subject: Re: addition Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Selling honey to your neighbors? Great PR for the bees. When I was a kid some neighbors even remarked now and then about how much better their gardens were producing, with bees in the neighborhood! I had the local paper-route, so that tied in well with honey sales. People really looked forward to the fresh honey every year. Of course, there are SOME beekeepers in the suburbs who might do much better to keep their bees and honey a secret! The fear of bees probably outweighs any fascination or appreciation in many suburban or urban neighborhoods! >http://www.cybertours.com/~midnitebee/ > >I would like to add another page! This time it will be about beekeepers >that sell their honey to their neighbors.Another great way to promote bees >and beekeeping.Don't you think? I will need your name and email or home >address.Please send information to my email address,not to the Bee-L. > Midnitebee(Herb) >midnitebee@cybertours.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 08:57:30 -0800 Reply-To: drjames@utah.uswest.net, uswest.net@utah.uswest.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "James Max Peterson Ph. D." Organization: Copper Hills High School Subject: Not invented here MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi All: I have not been able to read my mail for quite a while because of teaching pressures. It seems that a lot off the members of Bee-L are infected with "Not Invented Hereitis". Lets wait until we can see the good Dr.'s Paper before writing about his work. James Peterson Ph.D.Ch.E. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 14:42:18 +0100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Richard C. van Ouwerkerk" Organization: Planet Internet Subject: Re: Book Search MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Glyn Davies wrote: > I am searching for a book now out of print. Any suggestions re a good place to > look? I never tried this one, but what about: http://www.bksearch.com/ which is in my bookmarks file. Would have second hand books (a few months ago) -- Richard C.van Ouwerkerk, arts richardc@pi.net anesthesioloog tel/fax +31 20 4160219 Geerdinkhof 529 PE1KFM 1103 RH AMSTERDAM ZUIDOOST The Netherlands Yea, from the table of my memory I'll wipe away all trivial fond records. Hamlet (Act I, Sc. 5, Line 98) homepage http://home.pi.net/~richardc ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 08:51:39 -0800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Roy Nettlebeck Subject: Re: inbreeding In-Reply-To: <2.2.32.19970124213120.0074f728@pop.uvic.ca> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Fri, 24 Jan 1997, John Volpe wrote: > Hello, > > Some literature I have read recently suggests that workers, in their queen > selection, will choose those larva most closely related to themselves (ie > larvae that were fathered by drones produced from the home hive as opposed > to those larvae fathered by drones from other hives). This presents two > questions; > > How do colonies minimize inbreeding depression generated by this kin selection? > > What is/are the que(s) used by the workers in evaluating the genetic > relatedness among potential queens? > > Any information on this would be appreciated - are any of you working on > these questions or know a group which is Hi John ,The subject of inbreeding is important to all beekeepers. We have people ( myself included ) not happy with the queens that they are buying.The problem is more complex than just inbreeding.But the more knowledge we have about natural selection , the better job we can do in breeding.I would be very interested in any research on natural inbreeding or tha lack of inbreeding in nature. We should all be very thankfull for the work that Brother Adam has done for all of bekeeping.He did go all around the world to select natural stock for his breeding. Nature must have a way of control of inbreeding. It was what he needed to come up with the Buckfast Bee. I hope we can get some information on research that has been done on the subject. Best Regards Roy ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 09:28:22 -0800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Roy Nettlebeck Subject: Re: Where's the bullet? Comments: To: "Dr. Pedro Rodriguez" In-Reply-To: <32E4EE35.724F@norfolk.infi.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Tue, 21 Jan 1997, Dr. Pedro Rodriguez wrote: > bee-l@cnsibm.albany.edu wrote: > > > have been an ardent reader all my life. I find that literature is > full of detractors and ignorant babblers who enjoy getting on the band > wagon to make a name for themselves, THE ONLY WAY they can: making > ridicule of things that they have not done! Right Mr. Bromenshek? You > know what I am talking about, don't you? I wonder what your words will > be when beekeepers find that my findings are useful? You'll find > something, wont you? Your kind always does. I would like to have your > postal address so that I may send you a nice Crow and a box of tissues > to wipe the egg off your face. > 4. As stated before, I seek neither wealth nor glory. My work will be > available to all shortly in order that it may be put to work where it > will be most beneficial: to the honey bees! > 5. I apologize to the well intended, serious readers on the service, but > I too have a constitutional right in these UNITED STATES OF AMERICA to > freedom of speech. Unless, of course, the Bromensheks find a reason to > put me down for that also! > Sincerely > Dr. Pedro Rodriguez > Virginia Beach, Virginia USA Hello All, I really am sorry Dr. Rodriguez is not with us anymore.My post was not designed to get him off of the list.The foregoing post did hit a nerve and anyone who has been on this list over the last year has seen the praise that I give the researchers.Jerry Bromensheks has kindly helped all of us with his answers.My reaction should have been just to Dr. Rodriguez and not the list. I'm sorry I waisted so much band width with this subject. Best Regards Roy ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 15:11:44 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Kirk Jones Subject: using cell protectors Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hi all, We are getting ready to split out our hives in Florida in a couple of weeks and I wondered if any of you have used a cell protector over a Q cell and placed them in a Q right hive. What is the average acceptance rate in some of your experience? Kirk *Kirk Jones/ Sleeping Bear Apiaries /971 S. Pioneer Rd./Beulah,MI 49617 *Sharon Jones/ BeeDazzled Candleworks /6289 River Rd./ Benzonia, MI 49616 e-mail b-man@aliens.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 15:47:34 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Greg & Melinda Holley Subject: hobbyist questions Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I am a 3rd year hobbyist with 4 hives in SW Virginia. (3 Italian, 1 Carniolian) I have several questions. 1. Do I need to be checking my hives now to see if they still have enough food/honey? 2. Several people have given me old, dark honey they had for several years; is this okay to feed the bees? if yes, how do you feed it? 3. I would like to raise queens from my Carn. queen; if I try this having 3 other hives of Italians will the new bees be a mixed breed with a bad disposition? Thanks for your help... Greg Holley gm319@swva.net ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 17:53:48 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Juergen Jaenicke Subject: Re: NEWS from Calif. & the Law of averages Dear Andy; I want you to know, that I've been using some of your material for our Monthly Newsletter here in Long Island, N.Y. By coincidence it is called "Beeline" If you would like to be on our mailing list and receive a complimentary subscription, please send me your mailing address. Our mailing address is: Beeline, 99 Deer Lake Drive, North Babylon, N.Y. 11703-3400. Thank You again. Yours in beekeeping Juergen A. Jaenicke, editor ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 17:58:15 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Juergen Jaenicke Subject: Re: addition Juergen A. Jaenicke 99 Deer Lake Drive North Babylon, N.Y. 11703-3400 (516) 242-8355 E-Mail: jjimker@aol.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 18:09:05 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Michael Moroney Subject: Re: inbreeding In-Reply-To: <<2.2.32.19970124213120.0074f728@pop.uvic.ca> In article <<2.2.32.19970124213120.0074f728@pop.uvic.ca>, John Volpe wrote: > Hello, > > Some literature I have read recently suggests that workers, in their queen > selection, will choose those larva most closely related to themselves (ie > larvae that were fathered by drones produced from the home hive as opposed > to those larvae fathered by drones from other hives). This presents two > questions; I read something similar but I interpreted what was said differently. What I read is workers will choose larva fathered by the same drone that fathered them over larva fathered by some other drone. That is, favoring sisters over half-sisters. This drone does not have to come from the home hive, and this strategy does not encourage inbreeding. -Mike ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 16:53:56 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Excerpts from BEE-L Organization: BestOfBee@systronix.net Subject: Open Feeding MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT > We did some open feeding tests in late fall in Maryland. > Under similar weather conditions, overall bee flight activity > increased dramatically - more than 6 fold at one site. However, we > also experienced about a 6% loss in returning bees - some drowned > and I suspect others were too old and weak to survive the feeding > frenzy. My guess, from an energy expenditure and bee loss statepoint > - we had an adverse impact on the colonies (at least in terms of > individual bees). Whether the colony experienced a net gain or loss > from the additional provisions is unknown. If colonies surviving the winter is an indicator, then open feeding has a huge positive impact here in Alberta, since open fall feeding can reduce colony loss to virtually nil. This is proven time and again when some yards are not fed and return losses up to 100% compared to the 10-20% loss in yards with feed. The real question, I guess, is whether there is a better way. This is probably a personal matter, depending on resources and time available -- along with other factors. In the sense that there is little spilling, leakage, or handling involved, it is a very quick and efficient method. In that the bees must find and retrieve it, it may have some inefficiencies compared to having the feed delivered in the hive. FWIW, we find that feeding in hive with frame feeders does not get as good results as open feeding, since winter losses are higher (and the work is much greater). The huge plus is that anyone who can read a map, drive a truck, and open a tap can do it, so if you are stricken at feeding time, any neighbour can feed your bees. Or, if you find all your help has gone back to school and the weather is closing in, you can feed 2,000 hives in two or three days *without assistance*. (This is assuming your drums are already in the yards and that you buy pre-mixed syrup, and that you have a big enough tank for delivering the syrup to the yards). Among the negatives is the question of robbing and the huge cloud of bees that results, potentially scaring neighbours. Moreover, when the feed runs out, if the hives are not full and the weather is hot, severe stinging can occur in the neighbourhood. Fighting can result if insufficient surface area is available on the feeder and some hives decide to try to defend the feeder. We use about one open drum per 12 hives and that seems okay. The drum need not be full. Some use an abrasive Skil (r) saw to slit drums lengthwise to make 2 trays with greater surface area. Another consideration is protecting the surface from rain. Water is lighter than syrup and will float, effectively keeping the bees from their feed until the water is finally taken in by the syrup. Moreover, the dilute syrup at the interface is likely to ferment. Therefore, a roof of some sort, suspended above the drum is essential. This roof should be able to keep cattle, horses and wildlife out, since syrup is attractive -- and lethal to them. Open feeding is not advised if there are neighbouring bees within a mile or so due to invasion from those hives. There is the chance that diseases and mites may be passed between bees if mingle in feeders, but normally there is some progressive robbing in all yards in fall, so I doubt that open feeding is a huge additional concern. Besides drones go into any hive they like -- within miles. The obvious question is the loss of bees that can be seen occasionally in the bottom of the drum after all is done. My thoughts are that two inches of bees (5 cm) in a drum feeding 12 hives anounts to about a 4 inch ball of bees per hive. That is not a big loss in the fall. Besides, I have *never* seen 2 inches of bees in a drum -- one inch is the most I've seen, and that is rare. Moreover, many argue that the bees lost are old foragers, and are best removed anyhow for TM control and better wintering. I'm not sure of that, but I do know that too big a cluster will use more stores early in the winter. There is likely an optimum size range for economical wintering, and this small loss will not likely reduce most colonies below that range. What causes this visible loss? There are two main culprits: -- drowning (and syrup clogging) -- fighting Drowning is caused by moving the drum when it is full of bees, using thin syrup, or letting water into the drum -- or by using poor floats. As mentioned before, wheat straw -- or equivalent -- is the best, and a wad 3" thick or more should be made up by sprinkling the straw into the full drum, then patting down gently to make a porous mat. An important note: once straw becomes wet, it is useless. Thick syrup does not actually *wet* good straw, but rain will make it mushy. If the syrup is 67% sugar, the bees cannot drown easily, since they float and are often not even wet if they fall on it -- due to the surface tension of thick syrup. Everyone has seen waterbugs walk on water; this is a similar effect. The straw mat allows bees to climb out if they slip, and also to have a place to stand to approach the syrup. On the initial trip, they have no idea where exactly the syrup actually is, and rush madly down into the drum until they encounter the syrup with some part of their anatomy. Since it is not like nectar in a flower, some learning is then involved. Bees that fall into thin syrup or brush against wet straw get coated with sugar, and depending on the day, may or may not be able to get groomed enough to fly again. If not, they will form a mass on the centre of the float, while the less disabled of them will climb the walls and walk as far as they can. I prefer HFCS for feeding because it does not form a dry white scale on the bees like sucrose. Moreover, it does not get a hard scum on top on dry days. Fighting will ocur if the feeders do not have sufficient surface area for the number of hives being fed, Fighting can be observed on flowers when supply is limited, and feeder drums are no different. This conflict can result in robbing, stinging incidents, and loss of bees. The solution is to ensure that more than enough syrup is available to plug all the hives in the fall, and to have enough surface area on the feeders. The matter of providing enough syrup is one of the most subtle factors in the whole system. We hear that only the strong get fed using open feeding, however the obvious point that is missed by detractors is that once a strong hive is full, their bees stop foraging, and the other hives catch up. I can't over-emphasize how important this is for several reasons: Firstly, if hives are not full, the bees continue to seek food, and wear themselves out. Even if you eventually feed empty hives in late fall, the bees will be no good since they are worn out from searching and working meager sources, and early winter losses result. Lack of ample feed is a severe stress on bees. That is why it is so important to fill the hives up as soon as we wish brood rearing to end in the fall. For one thing, this buries all pollen under 'honey' in sealed cells, and preserves it for later when it is needed, and secondly, the bees become somewhat dormant and preserve their vigour when there is no room for more honey. Another thing to think about is whether all the hives in the yard know that food is available. If some hives are fairly well fed, they may be semi-dormant, and not notice open feed available. Usually scouts from active hives will wake them up by trying to rob, but if time is short, it is wise to disturb all the hives in the yard when delivering feed. An interesting observation on open feeding vs. top feeders: This fall, I had my guys providing supplimentary feed to spits with hive top feeders, since the splits were a little light and late getting fed. The whole yard -- including large hives -- had drums available too. The splits got one feederful taken down and the boys refilled them again. When I went out to wrap in the middle of October, the bees in the splits were clustered down in the bottom (standard) brood chambers, and the centre frames in the upper (standard) boxes were full and capped -- but the outer ones were unfinished. The bees were not interested in their own full hive top (Miller) feeders at all, but were rather flying out to the drums and also visiting *neighbouring* hives to slide under cracks between lid and feeder to steal some syrup to take home! About Barrel Feeding in the Spring The idea in the fall is to plug the hives, and the way that we achieve even feeding is by feeding until every hive is heavy. In the spring, we do not wish to plug our hives. This appears to be a problem, however... In the spring, there is a lot of room in the hives, so the chances of stopping the queen from laying are slight at first. Moreover feed consumption is high, so if the queen gets crowded out by feed, chances are that it will be gone quickly. In the spring, good beekeepers usually try to equalise their hives. This makes it likely that they will all forage about equally. Those that don't are prime candidates for a little work. Moreover, if some hives do take more than their share, it is very nice to find extra feed in them, ready to share with hungry hives while you are equalizing. I have found that bees do not respond as well to open feeding later in the spring, as compared to early spring. A yard (24 hives) will often take a drum in a warm spell in March (before nectar and reliable pollen here in Alberta). We can sometimes feed a drum or two later, but it depends on the spring, and the bees are weaker by then. There are many more factors to consider in using drums to feed, but these are the basics. Unless one considers all these factors and manages them wisely, barrel feeding will not seem too good. The Boardman feeder controversy still flares up from time to time, and although I personally consider them *worse* than useless, I have to admit that many good beekeepers swear by them and make them work for them. It all depends on one's location, goals, and techniques. What works in one location is a good way to go broke somewhare else. Open feeding is another *expert* technique that when practised with less than full understanding can lead to disaster -- or dissatisfaction and puzzlement. As with all beekeeping techniques, careful observation and understanding of bees and their constantly changing ways are essential for success. FWIW ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 19:43:55 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Brian Tassey Subject: Re: Open Feeding Bravo! Well thought out and open-minded. Brian ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 26 Jan 1997 00:58:57 GMT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: John Taylor Subject: Re: Wintering Report In-Reply-To: <199701061651.JAA03102@bernie.compusmart.ab.ca> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Missouri weather has been extremely variable; temps in the 50-60's, down to freezing, warm again, then down to single digits. During the last warm spell, about three weeks ago, a 'rap' on the side of the hive brought a strong humm. After snow about two weeks ago, followed by single digit temperatures, we had a day back up around 60 on the 22nd. =20 Checking the bees this last warm day revealed dead bees in the reduced entrance. There is a second entrance in the front of the top feeder, so I initially wasn't too worried. Except I didn't see any bees flying. Removing the entrance reducer revealed a solid mass of wet, dead bees, that looked as if they had been getting ready for a cleansing flight (lots of yellow specks attached to the bees). Opening the hive showed plenty of stores left and every last bee dead. I would appreciate it if anybody can give me an idea of what might have happened. Please feel free to reply to me at : johntrn@ldd.net if you feel this is not appropiate for general discussion. Thanks. -- John Taylor -- (Former) Wild Rose Creek Apiary Southeast Missouri When in danger, or in doubt, run in circles, scream and shout! ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 17:15:07 -0800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Roy Nettlebeck Subject: Re: using cell protectors In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII nOn Sat, 25 Jan 1997, Kirk Jones wrote: > Hi all, > > We are getting ready to split out our hives in Florida in a couple of weeks and > I wondered if any of you have used a cell protector over a Q cell and placed > them in a Q right hive. > > What is the average acceptance rate in some of your experience? > Hi Kirt, I use cell protectors for a couple of reasons. 1 I have some wire cages that I use in the incubator that the cell protectors fit into perfectly. 2. They are easy to fit into the brood comb , without squashing the queen. I have had good luck with them and they can be used over.You should wash them before you use them again. Hive and queen sent could cause trouble when it is put into another hive. Good luck and hope you have a great year. Best Regards Roy ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 22:28:49 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: MIDNITEBEE Subject: China beeswax supplier MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit http://www.cybertours.com/~midnitebee/ Sorry to post to the list directly.I am searching for Chen Gongjie.His email address is non-deliverable. Chen,please send your correct email to me at midnitebee@cybertours.com Thanks ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 22:31:04 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Dave from Scranton Subject: Re: "Silver Bullet" Comments: To: "Dr. Pedro Rodriguez" In-Reply-To: <32E6E6E9.4F7A@norfolk.infi.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Wed, 22 Jan 1997, Dr. Pedro Rodriguez wrote: > > His procedure calls for a very little smear of FGMO on the wax paper > > strips. He cautioned that too much FGMO will be detrimental to the > > bees as well as the mites. His hypothesis regarding how the FGMO is > > effective is that the FGMO gets into the spiracles of the mites (both > > tracheal and varroa), thereby suffocating them. The spiracles of the > > mites are much smaller than those of the bees, which is why a small > > quantity of FGMO is recommended - copious amounts of FGMO would also > > clog up the bees' spiracles. When I mentioned the grease patty idea to my wife, she wasn't suprised by it. As a kid, she raised rabbits and they used to smear Vaseiline in the rabbits ears to kill the mites. One wonders why FGMO works over the Crisco patties other than the FGMO might be smaller in size thana huge glob of vegetable oil and better suited to get into the mites? ****************************************************************************** Dave D. Cawley, Maitre d' | ***ALERT shameless plug ALERT*** The Internet Cafe | Scranton, Pennsylvania | ASK ME FOR A COPY OF WEBPHONE!!! (717) 344-1969 | (or try www.scranton.com/webphone) ddc1@lydian.scranton.com | ****************************************************************************** URL => http://www.scranton.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 22:41:35 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Dave from Scranton Subject: Re: Where's the bullet? HE LEFT! Comments: To: BRIAN HENSEL In-Reply-To: <06303778004768@metro.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Fri, 24 Jan 1997, BRIAN HENSEL wrote: > THANKS IAN!!!!!!!! > I could not agree with Ian more. I'm sorry to say that Dr. Pedro > Rodrequez, has informed me that he has signed off of Bee-L. As I stated > earlier, I was afraid that this would happen. It's sad to see that if a > person has an idea and they post it here, that they better have a thick > hide. This is a real shame. Needing a thick hide isn't unique to BEE-L, it's unique to life, especially life on the Internet. ****************************************************************************** Dave D. Cawley, Maitre d' | ***ALERT shameless plug ALERT*** The Internet Cafe | Scranton, Pennsylvania | ASK ME FOR A COPY OF WEBPHONE!!! (717) 344-1969 | (or try www.scranton.com/webphone) ddc1@lydian.scranton.com | ****************************************************************************** URL => http://www.scranton.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 23:13:30 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Dave from Scranton Subject: Re: Wintering Report Comments: To: John Taylor In-Reply-To: <32ec3cee.596712120@mail.midwest.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Sun, 26 Jan 1997, John Taylor wrote: > Missouri weather has been extremely variable; temps in the 50-60's, > down to freezing, warm again, then down to single digits. Sounds like here in NE Pennsylvania! It's driving me nuts! > flying. Removing the entrance reducer revealed a solid mass of wet, > dead bees, that looked as if they had been getting ready for a > cleansing flight (lots of yellow specks attached to the bees). > Opening the hive showed plenty of stores left and every last bee dead. Dysentary? I thought that was the only way they'd defecate inside the hive. ****************************************************************************** Dave D. Cawley, Maitre d' | ***ALERT shameless plug ALERT*** The Internet Cafe | Scranton, Pennsylvania | ASK ME FOR A COPY OF WEBPHONE!!! (717) 344-1969 | (or try www.scranton.com/webphone) ddc1@lydian.scranton.com | ****************************************************************************** URL => http://www.scranton.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 26 Jan 1997 19:27:29 -0800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Pure Jane Subject: Crystallization of honey MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=big5 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi,all Does anybody know about Crystallization of honey??i mean how i can do if i want the crystallized honey to become liquid honey.Heatting??--but it re-crystallized very soon especially in these winter days. --Really problem!Many people do not like cosuming solid honey that way. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 26 Jan 1997 06:30:56 -0700 Reply-To: allend@internode.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Allen Dick Organization: The Beekeepers Subject: Repost: Announcing BestOfBee MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT *** Please save this message for future reference *** We are pleased to announce BestOfBee, a new way to read BEE-L. BEE-L is the mailing list for discussion of bees. As the volume has grown on BEE-L, a number of members have grown tired of receiving large numbers of messages daily, many of which are sent in error or not of general interest. Many worthy subscribers have simply given up and left. Therefore, to lighten the load, several list regulars (who merrily read *everything* anyhow), have agreed to select the best material (in their opinions) and re-post it to a new list, called BestOf Bee (The '-l' is left off due to changing standards on the net regarding punctuation in list names). Since it is pretty well unanimous that BEE-L should not be split or censored, this provides a way for those who wish to read the list, but be selective and not be exposed to flames, etc. to enjoy a filtered version of BEE-L. Currently about 25% of the posts to BEE-L (or less) are being re-transmitted on BestOfBee. If you would like to try this new free service, simply send email to Honeybee@systronix.net saying join bestofbee You will shortly start receiving messages. Additional Info For Current BEE-L Subscribers: ---------------------------------------------- If you get BEE-L currently, these messages from BestOfBee will be *duplicates* of *some* the ones you get from BEE-L presently, but some may be edited to remove excessive quotes from previous messages if they are otherwise suitable. Many messages from BEE-L will not merit repeating on bestofbee, since they are chatter, or redundant. After you are satisfied that the new list is working and get a feel for the degree of filtering, you may wish to set BEE-L NOMAIL and read only the filtered messages -- if you like the way it works. *You will still need your BEE-L subscription* if you wish to post, since the only way to get a post to bestofbee is through posting a message on BEE-L. We expect that soon you will be able to search these selected messages using a web brouser after a number have accumulated. This will give a searchable 'opinion base'. We may add some edited material from old BEE-L logs too. Please Note: No one will be able to post to BestOfBee (regardless of what the welcome message says -- I haven't had time to fix it) except the moderators, so direct all replies to bestofbee articles to BEE-L where they will be read and perhaps selected for re-transmission. We hope this service helps more people to enjoy BEE-L, and that those who wish to post will do so freely now. We are also open to constructive comments and ideas for improvement. Regards Allen W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper VE6CFK RR#1, Swalwell, Alberta Canada T0M 1Y0 Internet:dicka@cuug.ab.ca & allend@internode.net Honey. Bees, & Art <http://www.internode.net/~allend/> ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 26 Jan 1997 09:04:24 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Joel W. Govostes" Subject: Re: Splits, runt queens Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >... In my opinion, by putting frames of eggs and >young brood into a nuc, you will be trying to get too much production >from too few bees. I don't think that a nuc will be able to raise a >good queen from scratch. If you get anything at all, she will likely be >a runt. > >Ted Fischer >Dexter, Michigan USA I have used combs containing *sealed* queen (swarm) cells in making up nuclei, and this has worked out fine. Since the q. cells are already sealed, the feeding of the larvae is complete, and there are enough bees in a nucleus to keep a q cell warm (if in late spring). Trying to raise new q cells in nuclei is another story. I don't think the resulting queens would be of very high quality, as the number of bees to care for the brood, and the available resources would be so limited. The queens I've raised in observation hives have always been lousy. Here is something that *does* work, even if it's not very complex: At the peak of spring buildup, I remove the queen from a strong overwintered colony, putting her and a couple frames of brood/food/bees in a nuc box (temporarily). Then I supply the big "dequeened" colony with a steady supply of sugar syrup, to keep food coming in despite changes in weather. Ten days later, bingo, there are usu. dozens of queen cells, all sealed and ready for use. (Any scrawny ones are discarded.) The resulting queens IME have been of very high quality, over all. Certainly no worse (and often much better) than any mail-order queens I've obtained. The key to this is in having a really populous colony with plenty of resources construct and care for the q. cells. Even a few colonies treated this way will result in a large number of sealed cells ready for use. JWG Freeville, NY ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 26 Jan 1997 09:53:44 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: James D Satterfield Subject: Re: Crystallization of honey In-Reply-To: <32EC20A1.5F44@public.wh.hb.cn> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Sun, 26 Jan 1997, Pure Jane wrote: > Hi,all > > Does anybody know about Crystallization of honey??i mean how i can do if > i want the crystallized honey to become liquid honey.Heatting??--but it > re-crystallized very soon especially in these winter days. > --Really problem!Many people do not like cosuming solid honey that way. Pure Jane, it is good to hear from you again on BEE-L. I was fearful that you had logged off for good. I can't tell you much about your problem, but this was discussed some time earlier so you may wish to retrieve some of the archived files. Drop by and visit my website on tbh beekeeping if you can. http://www.gsu.edu/~biojdsx/main.htm I hope that the idioms I use in writing don't cause a problem for you. I regret that I know no Chinese language other than some food in restaurants which may not even be Chinese names in first place! Best wishes for a good 1997 Cordially yours, Jim ---------------------------------------------------------------- | James D. Satterfield | E-Mail: jsatt@gsu.edu | | 258 Ridge Pine Drive --------------------------------| | Canton, GA 30114, USA Canton is about 40 mi/64 km | | Telephone (770) 479-4784 north of Altanta, Georgia USA | | | | TBH Beekeeping Website: http://www.gsu.edu/~biojdsx/main.htm | ---------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 26 Jan 1997 10:17:04 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: James D Satterfield Subject: tbh beekeeper listing MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII In my last post, I sent a message intended for Pure Jane to all of BEE-L. The old slip of the key syndrome. My apologies. This *is* intended for everyone. The tbh website at: http://www.gsu.edu/~biojdsx/main.htm seems to be running well, but of course it requires constant updating and revision. Joel G. has sent me some edits for the tbh FAQ's which I will incorporate over the next week. One friend suggested a list of those individuals who keep tbh's be added. Perhaps a page link "you're not alone..." or something like that. Perhaps a list with information like: NAME LOCATION # OF TBH'S CONTACT James D. Satterfield Canton, GA USA 25 jsatt@gsu.edu If you keep tbh's and would like to be on such a list, send me whatever information that you would like to be posted in such a list. If you know of tbh beekeepers who might like to be on the list but don't use the internet and email, check with them and see if you can send the information to me for them if you wish. I look forward to hearing from you. Cordially yours, Jim ---------------------------------------------------------------- | James D. Satterfield | E-Mail: jsatt@gsu.edu | | 258 Ridge Pine Drive --------------------------------| | Canton, GA 30114, USA Canton is about 40 mi/64 km | | Telephone (770) 479-4784 north of Altanta, Georgia USA | | | | TBH Beekeeping Website: http://www.gsu.edu/~biojdsx/main.htm | ---------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 26 Jan 1997 13:13:34 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Janet Montgomery & Dan Veilleux Subject: Re: Crystallization of honey Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 07:27 PM 1/26/97 -0800, you wrote: >Hi,all > >Does anybody know about Crystallization of honey??i mean how i can do if >i want the crystallized honey to become liquid honey.Heatting??--but it >re-crystallized very soon especially in these winter days. >--Really problem!Many people do not like cosuming solid honey that way. > >I inquired of the list on this same question and there seems to be no magic bullet --just remeltimg it from time to time -- I am in the process of building a honey melting cabinet so i can melt pails or multiple jars.. I am also seriously thinking on making creamed honey to work with the problem. Good luck Dan Veilleux Columbus Ohio USA Janet Montgomery 104 Fallis Road Columbus, Ohio 43214-3724 Home: (614) 784-8334 FAX: (614) 268-3107 E-mail: MONTVEIL@IWAYNET.NET ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 26 Jan 1997 08:24:54 -1000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Bob St. John" Subject: Re: Crystallization of honey In-Reply-To: <199701261813.NAA21632@iwaynet.iwaynet.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >I am in the process of building a honey melting cabinet so i can melt pails >or multiple jars.. You probabaly already have one. It is the oven in your range. Turn on the lowest setting-120 or 130 and leave the honey in there until it is liquid. it won't even melt those delicate plastic jars much. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 26 Jan 1997 13:36:53 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Phil Spitz & the Sanderson Family Subject: Targeting flowers Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" In Karl von Frisch's book Bees their vision, chemical senses,and Language. in the chapter about senses he writes about attracting bee to specific flowers. Page 63 "They (bees) obtain this information from the scent of the flowers which adheres to the bodies of the dancing bees. If we feed some bees at an artificial feeding place which the scent of the flowers that we wish them to visit, the foraging bees will perform their dances in the hive and stimulate other bees, which will fly out in search of the same odor and thus reach flowers of the same species." He later describes the feeding box," The box was divided into three compartments; the middle one contained flowers...and the other contained the food. To reach the sugar the bees were obliged to creep through these flowers thus their bodies were certain to become heavily scented. Afterwards they danced in the hive,..." Later he writes about an increase in red clover crop of 40 % by weight using this method (47) and confirmed by von Rhein, ( 57). "procedures of this kind can be useful to beekeepers as well as to farmers. ...we found that when bees were directed to seek for certain flowers the yield of honey could be increased by 50 % or more if they were guided in this way to flowers which were supplying a rich source of nectar." Now to my point and question: " In the actual employment of these methods one must pay careful attention to some factors which I cannot discuss here in detail. Unless these are known, one will not always be successful. That is probably why this method of ' guiding by odor' has been adopted in only a few countries." So. Is Karl von Frisch still around? Are these methods published elsewhere? Is there anyone out there on the web that has knowledge of this method that can share it with us? ****************************************************************************** Except the LORD build the house, they labour in vain that build it: except the LORD keep the city, the watchman waketh but in vain. It is vain for you to rise up early, to sit up late, to eat the bread of sorrows: for so he giveth his beloved sleep. Psalm 127:1-2 kjv ******************************************************************************* Read John 15 ************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 26 Jan 1997 15:49:46 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Carl H. Powell" Subject: To Kathryn - msg status? Kathryn, Hi! I sent you the information on Apitherapy but today got a rejection msg from Bee-L for a duplicate post. Did you recieve the information? Sometimes my mail reader 'goofs' and sends out the same packet twice. If you have not recieved it please send me your e-mail and I will mail it again direct to you. Carl All other readers: Please pardon this use of Bee-L bandwidth. I have no other way of contacting Katheryn currently. Cp ... Sign at bake sale: Cakes - $.66 Upside down cakes - $.99 ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20 ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 26 Jan 1997 15:58:45 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Gerry Visel Subject: Re: Crystallization of honey >At 07:27 PM 1/26/97 -0800, Pure Jane wrote: >>Does anybody know about Crystallization of honey?? I mean what I can do >>if I want the crystallized honey to become liquid honey. Heating??--but it >>re-crystallized very soon especially in these winter days. -Really problem! >>Many people do not like cosuming solid honey that way. >> And Janet Montgomery responded: > I am also seriously thinking on making creamed honey to work with the problem. Hi, I know this is not answering the original question by Pure Jane, (Welcome back!) but P-O Gustafson has a recipe to make fine crystalized honey (creamed honey) on a page at http://www.kuai.se/~beeman/krist_e.htm. (Sometimes it is easier to switch than fight!) When my honey crystalizes in the packages (jars) I put it in the microwave oven for five minutes or less using a temperature probe to keep the honey at the top to be less than 140 degrees F (60 degrees C.) I quickly cool it when it is clear again. To do larger batches, an insulated "hot box" with some light bulbs for heat and a thermostat switch can be made quite inexpensively. Do not let the honey get much over 150F/65C degrees for very long or it will darken quickly and not taste as good. A friend does it in a regular oven at the lowest setting, leaving it in overnight. Gerry and the other Visels at Visel7@juno.com Winnebago, Illinois, USA ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 26 Jan 1997 20:00:00 GMT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Andy Nachbaur Organization: WILD BEE'S BBS (209) 826-8107 LOS BANOS, CA Subject: Beekeepers - Check this out!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ---------------------------------------- Found on the net, FYI.. ---------------------------------------- From: "Jonathan M. Scherch" Subject: Beekeepers - Check this out!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Narrow Ridge Earth Literacy Center invites you to a workshop with Gunther Hauk on The Plight of the Bee - Biodynamic Principles Applied to the Varroa Mite Problem About the Workshop: In this workshop, participants will study the nature of the bee, its life rhythms, and the measures that can be taken to strengthen its health. Dying bee populations and the rapidly declining health of bees in general are threatening to create an ecological crisis. In the last ten years, science has been striving to control the varroa mite without causing more damage to the bee or its products. More importantly, though, from our point of view, is to investigate what can be done to increase the bees' health and natural resistance. There are antidotes in biodynamic agriculture and related methods which have been investigated by the Institute for Natural Apiculture in Germany. Gunther Hauk will share the progress that has been made. About the Instructor: Gunther Hauk is considered one of the foremost authorities on the development and instruction of biodynamic gardening with twenty-two years experience in the field. He received his Master's Degree in Education at the University of Tennessee and has been a gardening teacher at Waldorf schools in Stuttgaart and Heidenheim (Germany). He became a beekeeper in 1980 and began exploring biodynamic insights into beekeeping. Gunther Hauk is the Program Director at Three-Fold Educational Foundation in Spring Valley, New York. About Narrow Ridge Center: Narrow Ridge Earth Literacy Center (thirty-five miles N-E of Knoxville, TN) is a non-profit organization dedicated to fostering a sustainable society; one in which human health and the health of the planet are seen as one. To further its vision of a sustainable society, Narrow Ridge has created a biodynamic community-supported agriculture and education project called One Stone Farm. About Biodynamic Agriculture: Biodynamics views Earth as a living being which is our sacred duty to heal and tend. Learning to work with the rhythms and forces of nature and the universe, the biodynamic farmer strives to create a balance within the farm organism. The well-being of each part of the farm (animals, water, soil, plants, wild areas, and humans) is considered to be vital to the health of the whole farm. Hence, our concern for the plight of the bee. Information: Registration information and the schedule is on the opposite side of this page. If you have any further questions, please contact Jerry Grotzinger, Educational Co-ordinator, (423) 497-2753. Schedule: When: March 7 & 8, 1997 Where: Narrow Ridge Resource Center Hogskin Road, Washburn, TN Phone: (423) 497-2753 Times: Friday: Registration at 5:30 PM; Dinner provided at 6:00 PM; Lecture at 8:00 PM. Saturday: Lecture from 9:00 AM to 5:00 PM; Three meals provided. Tuition: $65 per person (includes four vegetarian meals) Accommodation: Bunk beds (Limited number @ $10/night. First come basis) Floor mattresses ($2/night) Registration: Please register by February 21, 1997. A $15.00 non-refundable fee is required to confirm your reservation. Fee applies towards tuition. A confirmatory letter and driving directions will be sent. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------------------- Registration Form: Name: ____________________________________________________________ Address: ____________________________________________________________ City: _____________________State: __________ Zip: ____________ Telephone: (___)-______________ Type of accommodation: Bunkbed ($10/night) ______ Mattress ($2/night) _______ __________nights @ _______ per night for a total of __________ Yes (circle), I am staying for Saturday night dinner (6 PM). Tuition: $65.00 Total amount enclosed: _______________ (minimum: $15 non-refundable registration fee) Make check and mail to: Narrow Ridge, Rural Route #2, Box 125, Washburn, TN 37888 --- ~ QMPro 1.53 ~ Never call a man a fool. Borrow from him. --- ~ QMPro 1.53 ~ z .. Read the docs? Wow, what a radical concept! .. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 14:00:00 +1300 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Barry Donovan Subject: Pierco Plastic Frames and Foundation -Reply MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; Charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Hi all, On 9 January Garrett Dodds asked about the pros and cons of Pierco frames. I first tried Pierco frames about a decade ago. They have performed extremely well, but for the first couple of years I found that bees could enter between the 2 layers of plastic that form the end bars. When the frames were pushed together bees were trapped, and would be dead on next hive inspection. As the years passed wax has accumulated in the spaces so bees can no longer be trapped, thank goodness. I disliked leaving bees in plastic prisons after working hives. I wonder if the model for Pierco frames available now excludes bees from end bars? Cheers, Barry Donovan, Lincoln, New Zealand. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 26 Jan 1997 10:47:17 -1000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Walter Patton Subject: Re: Crystallization of honey MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=BIG5 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Aloha I hope you can read this as I can not.Pretty cool. Am I responsible for what I say If I can't read it. If you cook honey at 145 degrees for 30 minutesyou are supposed to kill the crystals and the honey will stay liquid. bye fornow write so I can read .Walter Patton-Hawaiian Honey House and Hale Lamalani B & B (House of Heavenly Light) A Hawaii Beekeeper's Bed & Breakfast 27-703A Kaieie Rd.,Papaikou,HI. 96781 Ph./Fax 808-964-5401 or hihoney@ilhawaii.net http:\www.alohamall.com/hamakua/hihoney/htm. "TheBeehive,The Fountain of Youth and Health" ---------- > From: Pure Jane > To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU > Subject: Crystallization of honey > Date: Sunday, January 26, 1997 5:27 PM > > Hi,all > > Does anybody know about Crystallization of honey??i mean how i can do if > i want the crystallized honey to become liquid honey.Heatting??--but it > re-crystallized very soon especially in these winter days. > --Really problem!Many people do not like cosuming solid honey that way. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 26 Jan 1997 22:23:00 GMT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Andy Nachbaur Organization: WILD BEE'S BBS (209) 826-8107 LOS BANOS, CA Subject: AOL Hi Bee Friends, A little off the subject of bees, beekeeping, and beekeepers but one can not be part of the information highway without at least knowing some who use AOL. I agree with all who have said bad things about this company but I want you all to know that there is a way to use AOL and be a happy camper. (At least for the time being.) Hardly a day goes by that something is not said in the papers or on the 6 o'clock news on how those poor AOL'er's are having problems getting on line, busy, busy, busy signals,,, but in all this time there are those who have had few or no problems and are doing their thing with AOL. They use the back door so to speak, have internet access from other then AOL and use the option "bring your own service" and log in direct from the internet with few problems, and low cost, at least what they pay AOL, I think it $9.95 a month plus what ever you pay your internet provider. In this area internet access has dropped to $9.95 a month unlimited and soon to upgrade from 33.6 to X2 modems so it is fast. The problem AOL is having is the fact they do not have enough modems to provide service to all those dial up customers they have sold service too on a unlimited basis when all call at the same time. Their system overloads, but its their access system and not actually the AOL system itself so if you can get in the back door you can avoid the problems, at least until everyone finds out how good it has been, at least here. ttul Andy- (c) Permission is granted to freely copy this document in any form, or to print for any use. (w)Opinions are not necessarily facts. Use at own risk. --- ~ QMPro 1.53 ~ This tagline is pirated...(Argh Beeee Garrrrrrr!) ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 26 Jan 1997 22:01:37 -0800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Marie Thorp Subject: Crystallization of Honey Comments: cc: hyacpure@public.wh.hb.cn MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Pure Jane, The best way to keep the cost down for a hot box is to get an old broke down refrigator that still has the adjustable shelver in it. Hope that the fan that cools the coils still works. Take it out and save it. Get a thermostat with a probe that you put inside,attaching the control outside.get the type that you can plug a low watt,40, into. Install the fan inside,up top blowing all the time on a baffle so the heat stays uniform. You can also use this setup along with a pan of water to finish off queen cells. Hope this helps,let me know. Take Care,John ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 26 Jan 1997 23:58:29 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Doug Henry Subject: Re: Crystallization of honey In-Reply-To: <199701261813.NAA21632@iwaynet.iwaynet.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII I'm told that honey can be prevented from crystallizing by freezing it. Sounds wierd but I've heard it works. doug henry lockport manitoba ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 23:01:11 +1300 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Peter Bray Subject: Record Keeping Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >Glyn Davies wrote: > > has anyone devised a quick system of record keeping ....? We have developed our own software for managing our beekeeping data collection [for 4,000 hives] using Psion Organisers - relatively cheap, robust (even for beekeepers) and with a reasobly simple programming language OPL Organiser Programming Language - BASIC like). Output of the collected data files is into a comma delimited format, which can be picked up by a spreadsheet or (in our case) a relational database. I am happy for anyone to have a look at our source code for these and use it as they may wish as I don't have the time to support this. Currently we can answer up to 32 questions with mostly numeric answers but the source code could be altered quite easlily to accommodate alphnumeric information. The source code should be able to be used with some modifications on later Psion equipment such as the Workabout and HC range. I would consider the 3a machines not robust enough for Beekeeping field work. We also use Psion organizers for tracking drums of honey using barcodes. This could be adapted to beehives/pallets but requires the development of a ROBUST barcode that will stay permanently on the hive/pallets Cheers Peter Bray, Airborne Honey Ltd., PO Box 28, Leeston, New Zealand Fax 64-3-324-3236, Phone 64-3-324-3569 p.bray@netaccess.co.nz ---------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 12:41:32 +0000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Dave Black Subject: Apis cerana MIME-Version: 1.0 Morning/evening all, I am told that A. cerana ventilates the hive facing out, A melifera facing in. I have scanned my videos all weekend and not managed to decide if this is true or not. Do any of you know ? Also, has that synchronised 'flock' or 'school' movement you see in A. dorsata or A. cerana have a counterpart in A. melifera. Why not ? -- Dave Black <http://www.guildford.ac.uk/beehive>, Guildford, GU1 4RN. UK. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 12:27:29 +0000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Dave Black Subject: Surviving Varroa MIME-Version: 1.0 >From >Go see our web site - contains part of the English translation of the >German book, Varroa Resistance by Alois Wallner. Mr. Wallner, a >commercial beekeeper has been breeding toward Varroa resistance since >1989 and now has some breeder colonies that have survived untreated for >five full years. -- >Jack & Susan Griffes >Country Jack's Honeybee Farm >Ottawa Lake, MI 49267 >USA >e-mail Griffes@ix.netcom.com >Web page http://www2.netcom.com/~griffes Would anyone agree that this (surviving untreated) is not the criterion for success. Surely we would want to monitor the mite population. How could this be estimated without using a chemical knockdown and stopping the trial ? -- Dave Black <http://www.guildford.ac.uk/beehive>, Guildford, GU1 4RN. UK. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 09:46:36 +0000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Alyn W. Ashworth" Subject: Re: hobbyist questions In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.16.19970125154946.18f786bc@swva.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 In message <1.5.4.16.19970125154946.18f786bc@swva.net>, Greg & Melinda Holley writes >I am a 3rd year hobbyist with 4 hives in SW Virginia. (3 Italian, 1 >Carniolian) I have several questions. Hi! from one hobbyist (6 hives) to another (and another). I'm sure you'll get some more comprehensive answers from elsewhom, but FWIW.. >1. Do I need to be checking my hives >now to see if they still have enough food/honey? Difficult to say from my position so far away! - How did you prepare them for the winter last year? Have you tried hefting the hives to check their weight? >2. Several people have >given me old, dark honey they had for several years; is this okay to feed >the bees? if yes, how do you feed it? I would say NO. Feeding bees honey from another hives, let alone an unknown source, is a great way to pass on foul brood. >3. I would like to raise queens >from my Carn. queen; if I try this having 3 other hives of Italians will >the new bees be a mixed breed with a bad disposition? You probably have little or no control over the drones that your Q will mate with, unless you know that there are no other hives within about ten miles, and no feral colonies either. -- Alyn W. Ashworth Lancashire & North-West Bee-Keepers' Association. UK. (but I don't speak on their bee-half) http://www.demon.co.uk/emphasys ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 08:20:36 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Excerpts from BEE-L Organization: BestOfBee@systronix.net Subject: Open Feeding MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT > We did some open feeding tests in late fall in Maryland. > Under similar weather conditions, overall bee flight activity > increased dramatically - more than 6 fold at one site. However, we > also experienced about a 6% loss in returning bees - some drowned > and I suspect others were too old and weak to survive the feeding > frenzy. My guess, from an energy expenditure and bee loss > statepoint - we had an adverse impact on the colonies (at least in > terms of individual bees). Whether the colony experienced a net > gain or loss from the additional provisions is unknown. If colonies surviving the winter is an indicator, then open feeding has a huge positive impact here in Alberta, since open fall feeding can reduce colony loss to virtually nil. This is proven time and again when some yards are not fed and return losses up to 100% compared to the 10-20% loss in yards with feed. The real question, I guess, is whether there is a better way. This is probably a personal matter, depending on resources and time available -- along with other factors. In the sense that there is little spilling, leakage, or handling involved, it is a very quick and efficient method. In that the bees must find and retrieve it, it may have some inefficiencies compared to having the feed delivered in the hive. FWIW, we find that feeding in hive with frame feeders does not get as good results as open feeding, since winter losses are higher (and the work is much greater). The huge plus is that anyone who can read a map, drive a truck, and open a tap can do it, so if you are stricken at feeding time, any neighbour can feed your bees. Or, if you find all your help has gone back to school and the weather is closing in, you can feed 2,000 hives in two or three days *without assistance*. (This is assuming your drums are already in the yards and that you buy pre-mixed syrup, and that you have a big enough tank for delivering the syrup to the yards). Among the negatives is the question of robbing and the huge cloud of bees that results, potentially scaring neighbours. Moreover, when the feed runs out, if the hives are not full and the weather is hot, severe stinging can occur in the neighbourhood. Fighting can result if insufficient surface area is available on the feeder and some hives decide to try to defend the feeder. We use about one open drum per 12 hives and that seems okay. The drum need not be full. Some use an abrasive Skil (r) saw to slit drums lengthwise to make 2 trays with greater surface area. Another consideration is protecting the surface from rain. Water is lighter than syrup and will float, effectively keeping the bees from their feed until the water is finally taken in by the syrup. Moreover, the dilute syrup at the interface is likely to ferment. Therefore, a roof of some sort, suspended above the drum is essential. This roof should be able to keep cattle, horses and wildlife out, since syrup is attractive -- and lethal to them. Open feeding is not advised if there are neighbouring bees within a mile or so due to invasion from those hives. There is the chance that diseases and mites may be passed between bees if mingle in feeders, but normally there is some progressive robbing in all yards in fall, so I doubt that open feeding is a huge additional concern. Besides drones go into any hive they like -- within miles. The obvious question is the loss of bees that can be seen occasionally in the bottom of the drum after all is done. My thoughts are that two inches of bees (5 cm) in a drum feeding 12 hives anounts to about a 4 inch ball of bees per hive. That is not a big loss in the fall. Besides, I have *never* seen 2 inches of bees in a drum -- one inch is the most I've seen, and that is rare. Moreover, many argue that the bees lost are old foragers, and are best removed anyhow for TM control and better wintering. I'm not sure of that, but I do know that too big a cluster will use more stores early in the winter. There is likely an optimum size range for economical wintering, and this small loss will not likely reduce most colonies below that range. What causes this visible loss? There are two main culprits: -- drowning (and syrup clogging) -- fighting Drowning is caused by moving the drum when it is full of bees, using thin syrup, or letting water into the drum -- or by using poor floats. As mentioned before, wheat straw -- or equivalent -- is the best, and a wad 3" thick or more should be made up by sprinkling the straw into the full drum, then patting down gently to make a porous mat. An important note: once straw becomes wet, it is useless. Thick syrup does not actually *wet* good straw, but rain will make it mushy. If the syrup is 67% sugar, the bees cannot drown easily, since they float and are often not even wet if they fall on it -- due to the surface tension of thick syrup. Everyone has seen waterbugs walk on water; this is a similar effect. The straw mat allows bees to climb out if they slip, and also to have a place to stand to approach the syrup. On the initial trip, they have no idea where exactly the syrup actually is, and rush madly down into the drum until they encounter the syrup with some part of their anatomy. Since it is not like nectar in a flower, some learning is then involved. Bees that fall into thin syrup or brush against wet straw get coated with sugar, and depending on the day, may or may not be able to get groomed enough to fly again. If not, they will form a mass on the centre of the float, while the less disabled of them will climb the walls and walk as far as they can. I prefer HFCS for feeding because it does not form a dry white scale on the bees like sucrose. Moreover, it does not get a hard scum on top on dry days. Fighting will ocur if the feeders do not have sufficient surface area for the number of hives being fed, Fighting can be observed on flowers when supply is limited, and feeder drums are no different. This conflict can result in robbing, stinging incidents, and loss of bees. The solution is to ensure that more than enough syrup is available to plug all the hives in the fall, and to have enough surface area on the feeders. The matter of providing enough syrup is one of the most subtle factors in the whole system. We hear that only the strong get fed using open feeding, however the obvious point that is missed by detractors is that once a strong hive is full, their bees stop foraging, and the other hives catch up. I can't over-emphasize how important this is for several reasons: Firstly, if hives are not full, the bees continue to seek food, and wear themselves out. Even if you eventually feed empty hives in late fall, the bees will be no good since they are worn out from searching and working meager sources, and early winter losses result. Lack of ample feed is a severe stress on bees. That is why it is so important to fill the hives up as soon as we wish brood rearing to end in the fall. For one thing, this buries all pollen under 'honey' in sealed cells, and preserves it for later when it is needed, and secondly, the bees become somewhat dormant and preserve their vigour when there is no room for more honey. Another thing to think about is whether all the hives in the yard know that food is available. If some hives are fairly well fed, they may be semi-dormant, and not notice open feed available. Usually scouts from active hives will wake them up by trying to rob, but if time is short, it is wise to disturb all the hives in the yard when delivering feed. An interesting observation on open feeding vs. top feeders: This fall, I had my guys providing supplimentary feed to spits with hive top feeders, since the splits were a little light and late getting fed. The whole yard -- including large hives -- had drums available too. The splits got one feederful taken down and the boys refilled them again. When I went out to wrap in the middle of October, the bees in the splits were clustered down in the bottom (standard) brood chambers, and the centre frames in the upper (standard) boxes were full and capped -- but the outer ones were unfinished. The bees were not interested in their own full hive top (Miller) feeders at all, but were rather flying out to the drums and also visiting *neighbouring* hives to slide under cracks between lid and feeder to steal some syrup to take home! About Barrel Feeding in the Spring The idea in the fall is to plug the hives, and the way that we achieve even feeding is by feeding until every hive is heavy. In the spring, we do not wish to plug our hives. This appears to be a problem, however... In the spring, there is a lot of room in the hives, so the chances of stopping the queen from laying are slight at first. Moreover feed consumption is high, so if the queen gets crowded out by feed, chances are that it will be gone quickly. In the spring, good beekeepers usually try to equalise their hives. This makes it likely that they will all forage about equally. Those that don't are prime candidates for a little work. Moreover, if some hives do take more than their share, it is very nice to find extra feed in them, ready to share with hungry hives while you are equalizing. I have found that bees do not respond as well to open feeding later in the spring, as compared to early spring. A yard (24 hives) will often take a drum in a warm spell in March (before nectar and reliable pollen here in Alberta). We can sometimes feed a drum or two later, but it depends on the spring, and the bees are weaker by then. There are many more factors to consider in using drums to feed, but these are the basics. Unless one considers all these factors and manages them wisely, barrel feeding will not seem too good. The Boardman feeder controversy still flares up from time to time, and although I personally consider them *worse* than useless, I have to admit that many good beekeepers swear by them and make them work for them. It all depends on one's location, goals, and techniques. What works in one location is a good way to go broke somewhare else. Open feeding is another *expert* technique that when practised with less than full understanding can lead to disaster -- or dissatisfaction and puzzlement. As with all beekeeping techniques, careful observation and understanding of bees and their constantly changing ways are essential for success. FWIW ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 23:28:04 -0500 Reply-To: dronebee@norfolk.infi.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Dr. Pedro Rodriguez" Organization: InfiNet Subject: Re: "Silver Bullet" Comments: To: Dave from Scranton MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dave from Scranton wrote: > > On Wed, 22 Jan 1997, Dr. Pedro Rodriguez wrote: > > > His procedure calls for a very little smear of FGMO on the wax paper > > > strips. He cautioned that too much FGMO will be detrimental to the > > > bees as well as the mites. His hypothesis regarding how the FGMO is > > > effective is that the FGMO gets into the spiracles of the mites (both > > > tracheal and varroa), thereby suffocating them. The spiracles of the > > > mites are much smaller than those of the bees, which is why a small > > > quantity of FGMO is recommended - copious amounts of FGMO would also > > > clog up the bees' spiracles. > > When I mentioned the grease patty idea to my wife, she wasn't > suprised by it. As a kid, she raised rabbits and they used to smear > Vaseiline in the rabbits ears to kill the mites. One wonders why FGMO > works over the Crisco patties other than the FGMO might be smaller in size > thana huge glob of vegetable oil and better suited to get into the mites? > > ****************************************************************************** > Dave D. Cawley, Maitre d' | ***ALERT shameless plug ALERT*** The > Internet Cafe | Scranton, Pennsylvania | ASK ME FOR A COPY OF > WEBPHONE!!! (717) 344-1969 | (or try > www.scranton.com/webphone) ddc1@lydian.scranton.com | > ****************************************************************************** > URL => http://www.scranton.com Dear Dave: (You might say that this is an advance (synopsis)on my impending publication). Your got it my friend! It took me a long time studying the characteristics of mites and what would affect them biologically. Then I remembered that as a veterinarian I used to treat ear mites in cats and rabbits with nothing but mineral oil and the same thing for scale mites on the legs of birds. And bingo! Through study, I learned that mites have two types of pores on their bodies. One type for breathing (respiration) and one type for taking in moisture (hydration). I thought that if I could block these pores, the mites should die. By combining my veterinary medicine experience and my knowledge about mite biology, I arrived at mineral oil. The beauty of my system is that the mineral oil can be made readily available for exposure to the mites (contrary to patties from which the bees must eat; or walk on Crisco smeared sticky sheets placed on the bottom boards). MO is much more fluid and thus, like you "wondered" it penetrates the pores of the mites more readily blocking the pores and killing the mites through SUFFOCATION AND DEHYDRATION. From my food service experience in the Army and USDA, I know that Food Grade Mineral Oil does not contaminate the food or the environment and is approved by the government for use in food service industries. Hence we have a substance that is lethal to mites, it is not a pesticide, it is bee friendly (used in proper amounts) and environment friendly. And it is working like a charm on my own bees! Soon I will publish a full report on my findings. Many regards. Dr. Rodriguez ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 26 Jan 1997 08:22:57 GMT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Sid Pullinger Subject: Beginners Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" <<<<<>>>> I suspected that I might be misunderstood. <<>> Look everywhere, books, a good periodical and this bee list by all means. Having written, lectured and advised on beekeeping for the last fifty years I would be the last person to discourage anyone. No one would dream of taking up driving or playing the piano without some preliminary instruction and I feel that that should apply to beekeeping as well. My advice has always been "Check it out before you spend a small fortune on bees and equipment. Read, join an association if possible and try your hand with a local established beekeeper. Then you can decide if that is what you want." I started beekeeping in 1930. I consider that I have picked up a fair amount of knowledge along the way but I am still reading - and learning. I'm sorry if I upset you and perhaps others. Sid P. _________________________________________________________________ Sid Pullinger Email : sidpul@aladdin.co.uk 36, Grange Rd Compuserve: 100343.1216@compuserve.com Alresford Hants SO24 9HF England ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 26 Jan 1997 08:22:54 GMT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Sid Pullinger Subject: Large swarm Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >>>>I know a beekeeper hear in Slovenia, who is claiming that he is the one who carried the largest number of bees on man's body. He put 13kg of bees (app. 130,000 bees) on his body. >>>>>> I have no wish to start an argument but I must take issue over the figures given above. I know nothing about bee beards except what I have seen in magazines but I cannot imagine one would use hungry bees. I think they would need to be happy and contented, in other words with full honey sacs. Quoting from the latest issue of the Hive and the Honey Bee (two words, note) the average weight of an empty forager bee is 82mg. Younger bees are slightly heavier. A bee can, but rarely does, load 70mg in its honey sac. Assuming a more likely load of 50mg this would give the bees an average weight of 132mg. This would give the the number of bees in 13Kg around 98500, a far cry from 130000.+If we accept the figure given the average weight would be 100mg, honey sacs nearly empty. Reverting to pounds and the current thread on swarm size, completely empty bees (an unlikely situation) come around 5000 t0 5500 to the pound. Bees with a fair load in their sacs (40mg) weigh in at 3700 to the pound. It is accepted that swarming bees leave with a full load and might well weigh in at less than that number. I have weighed swarms (primes with the old queen) for the last eleven years and only once has the weight exceeded 10 pounds. Most weighed around six to eight pounds. I was once present when two stocks swarmed simultaneously and settled as one in a nearby branch. That would have been a record breaker but while I was getting my kit together they quietly separated, one queen in each as I found later. Incidentally I think there was a remark in the bee list some time back that a swarm consisted largely of foragers. This is not so. Younger wax makers and nurse bees are needed as well. I understand that older bees can revert back to earlier duties if the need arises but a swarm needs high speed wax producers and brood food makers and this can only come from bees of the right age. If the swarm did consist mainly of foragers (working life two to three weeks) they would all be dead before the first brood appeared three to four weeks later. Sid P. _________________________________________________________________ Sid Pullinger Email : sidpul@aladdin.co.uk 36, Grange Rd Compuserve: 100343.1216@compuserve.com Alresford Hants SO24 9HF England ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 26 Jan 1997 09:27:56 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Dave Green, Eastern Pollinator Newsletter" Subject: Maybe a mite-resistant colony? Forwarded mail FYI Forwarded Message: Subj: Need a beekeeper Date: 97-01-25 16:47:52 EST From: pea@swweb.net (peter E. Almy) Reply-to: pea@swweb.net << I have a hive in Kentucky that I want to get rid of. It is very old. I am sure it is 25 years old, my mother says it is 50 years old. I need a beekeeper who is able to remover the hive. Do you know any beekeepers who would be interested in talking to me about it?>> Any local beekeepers interested? Pollinator@aol.com Dave Green, PO Box 1200, Hemingway, SC 29554 (Dave & Jan's Pollination Service, Pot o'Gold Honey Co.) Practical Pollination Home Page Dave & Janice Green http://users.aol.com/pollinator/polpage1.html Jan's Sweetness and Light Varietal Honeys and Gift Sets http://users.aol.com/SweetnessL/sweetlit.htm ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 07:09:52 -0700 Reply-To: allend@internode.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Allen Dick Organization: The Beekeepers Subject: Interesting Request for Help MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT I am forwarding this to the list, since I feel unqualified to deal with all the questions, altough I have made a few suggestions. In particular, I have paid no attention to the question of making foundation by hand... Please relpy direct to Bryan as well as the list, since I don't know if he has gotten subscribed yet. ------- Forwarded Message Follows ------- To: dicka@cuug.ab.ca From: Bryan Butler Subject: Hand powered equipment Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 22:24:48 -0700 Yesterday I visited the Beemaid facilities in Spruce Grove. While there, Ian Henry gave me your e-mail address as a possible source of answers to several of my questions. For the last two years I have been looking at various uses for a water weed in Lake Victoria (East Africa). This last summer I spent two months in Uganda looking at the weed and other possibilities. One of the very real possibilities is working with honey and with beeswax. We have lived for 8 years in Africa and seek ways to move back there to live and work. In reading an older book on bee keeping I found that there were hand operated machines for making a foundation sheet (similar to ones used in the craft industry). Do you know where I could find such a machine? Do the still exist? Are there alternatives? As well, Ian mentioned that there is a company in Italy which makes bee keeping and honey processing equipment. Would you know how I could track that address down? I am wondering if there are by-products that can be made from very dark honey. Uganda has a great deal of dark honey and my understanding is that this is not too marketable. Maybe that is an incorrect assumption. I wondered if we could break it down into basic sugars or something which could then be more marketable. Almost all the honey (maybe all) in Uganda is produced in traditional or semi-traditional hives. This means it is harvested in chunks of comb that need to be crushed (I think??) before extraction. Do you have any comments? I very much hope to be moving to Uganda this year and would like to pursue something with honey while there. This would be in conjunction with some of my other ventures but could easily turn into full time work. Thank you for your patience with these questions. Yours truly, Bryan Butler bbutler@telusplanet.net Regards Allen W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper VE6CFK RR#1, Swalwell, Alberta Canada T0M 1Y0 Internet:dicka@cuug.ab.ca & allend@internode.net Honey. Bees, & Art <http://www.internode.net/~allend/> ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 09:18:08 -0800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Vince Coppola Subject: Re: Book Search MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Glyn Davies wrote: > > Dear Bee-Liners, > > I am searching for a book now out of print. Any suggestions re a good place Try WICWAS Press, Larry Connor: lconnor@aol.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 09:34:48 -0800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Vince Coppola Subject: Re: hobbyist questions MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Greg & Melinda Holley wrote: 1. Do I need to be checking my hive now to see if they still have enough food/honey? Just hefting the back of the hive will tell you if they are light. You can start feeding very early, if they don't take the feed now they will later. 2. Several people have given me old, dark honey they had for several years; is this okay to feed the bees? if yes, how do you feed it? Not a good idea. Honey may harbor pathegens such as AFB, EFB, nosema, chalkbrood. Only feed honey if you are sure of the source and that the source is disease free. Of course it is still smarter to sell the honey and feed syrup. 3. I would like to raise queens from my Carn. queen; if I try this having 3 other hives of Italians willthe new bees be a mixed breed with a bad disposition? The cross wil probably be fine. Your queens will probably mate with drones from another apiary anyway. Queens fly farther from the apiary when they make a mating flight than drones do to congregation areas. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 09:49:00 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Joel W. Govostes" Subject: Re: Wintering Report Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Checked several colonies yesterday (temp. about 14 deg. F) by rapping and listening through the hive walls. Heard good buzzing in all except one. I thought it was dead, and briefly pried up the 2nd chamber to verify. I was greeted by a seething bubbling mass of bees whose cluster I had just broken! I closed up the gap immediately, before they started out at me! Anyway, don't presume they are dead if they are quiet! The hives are not packed, entrances unrestricted, 2-3 stories, ventilation provided between inner cover/crown boards and outer covers. I never did get the mouse-screens in, and by now it is far too late. I just hope the local rodents found other places to nest! So, so far so good. Interestingly, all of the clusters are still verrry low, way down in the bottom stories. (That's probably why I didn't hear anything in that hive.) Fortunately, no frost evident under the lids. No sign of dead bees either, piling up, or crawling from acarine. Hopefully things will continue along this way... The winter here has averaged fairly mild so far, but we've a long way to go yet! Freeville, NY ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 09:56:32 -0800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Vince Coppola Subject: Re: using cell protectors MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Kirk Jones wrote: > We are getting ready to split out our hives in Florida in a couple of weeks and > I wondered if any of you have used a cell protector over a Q cell and placed them in a Q right hive.What is the average acceptance rate in some of your experience? > Hi Kirk, In my own experience, the result were not good. I introduced ripe cells, in the honey supers, to 20 col. with marked queens. The cells hatched OK but later when we looked, the marked queens were still heading the col. But- I have heard from some very good beekeepers that this system works for them. I suspect that the time of the year, the honey flow, the stocks used all play a part. Looks like another area in which we could use more research. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 10:19:59 -0500 Reply-To: beeworks@muskoka.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: David Eyre Organization: The Beeworks Subject: Re: using cell protectors In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT On 25 Jan 97 at 15:11, Kirk Jones wrote: using cell protectors > We are getting ready to split out our hives in Florida in a couple of weeks and > I wondered if any of you have used a cell protector over a Q cell and placed > them in a Q right hive. > > What is the average acceptance rate in some of your experience? We have and do use this method of requeening a Queen right hive. To really get the best use there are certain things that have to be done.The old queen should be marked, otherwise you don't know if this method has worked, or not!! The queen cell has to be over 14 days old before it's moved, if not there is danger of the queen hatching with damaged wings. The hive that the cell is going into has to have an old queen, there is no point in trying this with a young queen that the bees are happy with. The cell inside it's protector is pressed into the wax, preferably close to emerging brood. No cell protector, then the bees will invariably break open the cell. Once the virgin has emerged the bees do not seem to be concerned by it. The virgin goes out and mates, then comes back and takes over as if there was superscedure taking place. The alternative is to place it above a queen excluder, as low as possible, to ensure that it will be covered by bees during any cold snap. The virgin will mate and start to lay above the excluder, provided you supply a top entrance. On occasion we have had the new queen return to the bottom entrance, and take over. This is the reason for a back or side entrance for upper entrances. If it is done correctly, at the right time the success rate can be very high. But to be really sure, you can't beat the nuc, cell, and finally newspaper unite to requeen!! ********************************************************* The Bee Works, 9 Progress Drive Unit 2, Orillia, Ontario, Canada. L3V 6H1 David Eyre, Owner. Phone/Fax 705 326 7171 Dealers for E.H.Thorne & B.J.Sherriff UK http://www.muskoka.net/~beeworks ********************************************************* ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 10:19:57 -0500 Reply-To: beeworks@muskoka.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: David Eyre Organization: The Beeworks Subject: Re: Wintering Report In-Reply-To: <32ec3cee.596712120@mail.midwest.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT On 26 Jan 97 at 0:58, John Taylor wrote: Re: Wintering Report > hive brought a strong humm. After snow about two weeks ago, followed > by single digit temperatures, we had a day back up around 60 on the > 22nd. > > Checking the bees this last warm day revealed dead bees in the reduced > entrance. There is a second entrance in the front of the top feeder, > so I initially wasn't too worried. Except I didn't see any bees > flying. Removing the entrance reducer revealed a solid mass of wet, > dead bees, that looked as if they had been getting ready for a > cleansing flight (lots of yellow specks attached to the bees). > Opening the hive showed plenty of stores left and every last bee dead. I think the key here is that cold snap. Dr. Nasr did work on "The thermo-regulation of the cluster" He found that bees which were carrying T-mites would die during cold weather. It seems that when the temperature drops the bees need considerably more oxygen intake to keep the cluster temp up. As the bees trachea became more clogged by mites there was less space to absorb oxygen, they suffocated and became chilled to the point of dying. This is one reason that we up here in the cold suffer more winter losses from T-mites, than say for example someone in Florida!! ********************************************************* The Bee Works, 9 Progress Drive Unit 2, Orillia, Ontario, Canada. L3V 6H1 David Eyre, Owner. Phone/Fax 705 326 7171 Dealers for E.H.Thorne & B.J.Sherriff UK http://www.muskoka.net/~beeworks ********************************************************* ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 10:18:19 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Joel W. Govostes" Subject: Re: hobbyist questions Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >Greg & Melinda Holley wrote: > > 1. Do I need to be checking my hive now to see if they still have >enough food/honey? You can open the hive briefly on a calm day, preferably above freezing. A quick glance down between the frames will tell you if sealed honey remains, and you can check that the cluster is in contact with sealed honey. That being the case, they are in good shape for the time being. Gently lifting the rear of the hive off the stand an inch or two will give you an idea of how much food is left, by the hive's weight. If the bees are not on or adjacent to sealed honey stores, you can feed them. In cold weather dry sugar or fondant ("candy") will keep them going without introducing undesirable moisture in the form of syrup. > >2. Several people have given me old, dark honey they had for several >years; is this okay to feed the bees? if yes, how do you feed it? How much old, dark honey do you have? The danger of introducing foulbrood spores is very real, so don't feed that honey! You don't know where it is from, or where it's been! If you have a dark honey source in your area, you could just blend that honey in with your dark honey next harvest-time. Some customers prefer dark honey, especially folks who use it for baking or granola. The age of the honey doesn't matter. If you had honey from your OWN bees, which you knew were completely healthy, you could feed it back, but supplying dry sugar or candy would be easier. Then, too the honey is worth more, so it's better to consume or sell it! I once tried feeding granulated buckwheat honey (from my bees) back, figuring I could just spoon some clumps onto the frames. Buckwheat sells at very low prices around here as it is very dark and rank. Since I had quite a bit on hand, I thought it would be good for supplemental feeding in this granulated form. Well, due to moisture, and perhaps the warmth of the clusters, the granulated honey thinned and ran down between the frames onto the bees. I lost a few colonies that way. (If newspaper or cardboard were placed down under the chunks of honey, it might have prevented this). ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 10:21:01 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Aaron Morris Subject: Stamps MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT HI Jerry and other phillata..., eh, fillate..., eh stamp collectors! I checked with our resident expert, who researched the answer: Reproduction of stamps is kosher if: 1) the stamp is reproduced in black and white OR 2) the stamp is reproduced in color in an obviously different size than the original. Color reproduction of a stamp in the same size is considered counterfeiting and is illegal (simialr to making color photocopies of currency). Sincerely, Aaron Morris ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 09:03:36 -0700 Reply-To: allend@internode.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Allen Dick Organization: The Beekeepers Subject: Re: using cell protectors MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT > The alternative is to place it above a queen excluder, as low as > possible, to ensure that it will be covered by bees during any cold snap. > The virgin will mate and start to lay above the excluder, provided you > supply a top entrance. On occasion we have had the new queen return to the > bottom entrance, and take over. This is the reason for a back or side > entrance for upper entrances. I guess this another of those things that depend on how you do it and when. We have tried it several times and had *no* success. The last time was an experiment in May over strong wintered doubles. We used three frame splits over excluders on top of the doubles and introduced ripe cells with protectors into the thirds. All three boxes had auger holes and had frame feeders with feed. We knew better, since all recommendations are to use a divider board, but thought -- with luck -- we might get queens mated in the splits over excluders and be able to take them away or double-queen the hives without using the extra piece of equipment. We did not have great hopes for the plan, but thought it worth a try. We had *no* success at all, although other cells from the same batch were fine in free standing nucs. Regards Allen W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper VE6CFK RR#1, Swalwell, Alberta Canada T0M 1Y0 Internet:dicka@cuug.ab.ca & allend@internode.net Honey. Bees, & Art <http://www.internode.net/~allend/> ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 23:19:27 -0800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Pure Jane Subject: Re: Crystallization of honey Comments: To: WGMiller@aol.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=big5 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit WGMiller@aol.com wrote: > > Dear Jane, > > To keep formerly crystallized honey liquid, put it in a freezer or keep it > above 20 C. 15 C is the temperature at which crystalization is most rapid. > > Or, you can take advantage of the "problem" and make creamed honey. Creamed > honey is considered a premium product here, and it fetches a higher price than > liquid honey. I'm surprised that you don't find much demand for it in your > corner of China. Might it be popular elsewhere in China? > > W. G. Miller > Gaithersburg, MDDear Sir, I would say that most Chinese honey-consumers do not like crystallized honey,and that is why we feel really problems to us!You know,we do pack our honey in the jars and put them to the stores.In winter,many jars in the cartons become crystallized.We have to get them back to our workshop for melting them so that customers can accept our honey.That is what we always do! We know means of heating to achieve liquid honey.But it re-crystallized soon in the winter days. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 08:51:13 -1000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Bob St. John" Subject: Re: Received In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Carl, yes, I got your message. Thanks loads. Kathryn ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 13:34:47 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: James Morton <106074.517@compuserve.com> Subject: Re: Apis cerana - fanning Message text written by Dave Black >I am told that A. cerana ventilates the hive facing out, A melifera >facing in. I have scanned my videos all weekend and not managed to >decide if this is true or not. Do any of you know ? Apparently it is. Ruttner refers to it, and gives a couple of references to relevant papers in Biogeography and Taxonony of Honeybees. However I didn't notice any difference when I briefly worked with A. cerana in India a few years ago . Now that I come to think of it, I'm not convinced that A. mellifera colonies always fan facing inwards. Don't they sometimes fan in two or more groups: some facing inwards, others facing outwards? It's so cold here in the UK (as Dave knows) that no colony is fanning at the moment so I can't go and check. Perhaps others in warmer countries can. James Morton London UK ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 14:09:35 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Charlie Bradley Subject: Re: Crystallization of honey To: Pure Jane Re: Crystallization of Honey It has been my observation that honey when exposed to very cold temperatures will crystallize much quicker. If the honey is not stored in warm temperatures after bottling it will likely re- crystallize quickly. It may well be in China that the room where the honey is being stored is not heated. You may need to educate your customers to store the honey in heated rooms. Another solution may be to do what I have seen in some places in the U.S. Some beekeepers attach a small label to their containers of honey explaining that pure honey will crystallize and that there is nothing wrong with it. It then gives a method of liquifing the honey. Charlie -------------------------------------------------------- Charles R. Bradley Extension Educator Marshall County Extension Office 112 W. Jefferson Street Room 304 Plymouth, IN 46563 Phone: 219-935-8545 Fax: 219-935-8612 E-mail: Charles_Bradley@acn.purdue.edu -------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 14:48:51 -0500 Reply-To: rwood@voicenet.com Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Bob & Jo Wood Organization: QuickSilver Subject: Re: Editorial Policy -- Feedback Please MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Excerpts from BEE-L wrote: > > Well, Best of Bee has been going several weeks now, with much thanks > to Nick who carried the ball while I was away at the ABF meeting. We > currently have 86 on the list! > > We're wondering how you are enjoying the list so far, and if you > have suggestions for improvement in any area. > > Particularly, we are wondering about what type of material to pass > along. We have so far tended to edit out excessive quotes, personal > posts, facetious comments, emotional outbursts, and posts of a really > basic nature or which are redundant. > > It is in regard to the last items that we are uncertain, since we > understand that we have a varied audience to serve. On the one hand, > experts and researchers may not need to see all the basic stuff, but > on the other, we do not want to get so narrow in our focus that we > serve only a few people. > > In that vein, we wonder if it would help to classify posts by codes > in the subject line such as 'H' for hobby, 'G' for general interest, > 'Sc' for science, etc. It would be more work for us, and we would > not do it unless there is demand. > > Please reply to this post *only* if you have constructive comments > and think change is needed. We appreciate all the compliments we > have received, but here we are looking for criticism. > > TIA. > > BTW, Please pardon the inaccurate help files that are sent when you > subscribe. I'll fix them as soon as I can figure out how :) As a beginner I would like to see all "basic" information that is on the list. Of course if there is a FAQ that already clearly answers a question then that fact should be posted to. 1)Perhaps I should subscribe to the full list, how do I go about subscribing? 2)Is there a Bee-L FAQ? Thanks for a great job! I like what I've seen so far.... Bob Wood---->rwood@voicenet.com---->http://www.voicenet.com/~rwood ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 15:51:22 -0500 Reply-To: beeworks@muskoka.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: David Eyre Organization: The Beeworks Subject: Re: "Silver Bullet" In-Reply-To: <32EADD54.4EEF@norfolk.infi.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT On 25 Jan 97 at 23:28, Dr. Pedro Rodriguez wrote: Re: "Silver Bullet" > sheets placed on the bottom boards). MO is much more fluid and thus, > like you "wondered" it penetrates the pores of the mites more readily > blocking the pores and killing the mites through SUFFOCATION AND > DEHYDRATION. From my food service experience in the Army and USDA, I > know that Food Grade Mineral Oil does not contaminate the food or the > environment and is approved by the government for use in food service > industries. Hence we have a substance that is lethal to mites, it is not > a pesticide, it is bee friendly (used in proper amounts) and environment > friendly. Why is it necessary to use waxed paper? Which would not absorb much material! I would assume that regular paper towels would hold more mineral oil, and would therefore require less treatments. Is this treatment applied to the top of the hive? If so it is then dependant on the bees removing the paper and discarding it out the front entrance. Or, is it placed on the bottom board, in which case it is the traffic across the paper, before it is removed? Clarification please! ********************************************************* The Bee Works, 9 Progress Drive Unit 2, Orillia, Ontario, Canada. L3V 6H1 David Eyre, Owner. Phone/Fax 705 326 7171 Dealers for E.H.Thorne & B.J.Sherriff UK http://www.muskoka.net/~beeworks ********************************************************* ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 08:44:30 +1200 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Cliff Van Eaton Subject: Instrumental Insemination Equipment - Address of W. Seip Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain I may have missed it, but I don't remember seeing any direct reply to Dr. Kaftanoglu's request for the address of W. Seip, who manufactures and supplies queen bee instrumental insemination equipment. My Seip catalogue is bit old now, but lists the following address: W. Seip Beekeeping Equipment Hauptstr. 34-36 D-6308 Butzbach-Ebersgons (umlaut over the o - my E-mail program doesn't extend to umlauts!) GERMANY ph. (0 64 47) 66 05 Seip's catalogue includes a whole range of insemination gear, including the Schley device, Schley syringe, microscopes, a low-cost C02 regulator, and a low-cost fibre-optic light source. He even offers a device for making the precision glass tips for the Schley device. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 16:45:19 EDT Reply-To: gotis@evbhort.uoguelph.ca Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Gard Otis Organization: Environ. Biology & Horticulture Subject: Apis cerana hive ventilation A query from Dave Black prompts this reply about A. cerana ventilation. Indeed, cerana does face out of the hive when fanning, thus pushing air into the nest rather than pulling it out. The closely related Asian species, Apis koschevnikovi, also does the same as cerana. As to relative efficiency for ventilation, I cannot comment. Unfortunately, I am not sure what is meant by the other part of the question concerning the "synchronised flock movement in A. dorsata and A. cerana." I have spent much time watching dorsata colonies (division of labour studies) and if this occurred, I was not aware of it. Of course, some such observations must be analysed statistically before patterns emerge. As for mellifera, I spent several days observing African and European exits and entries of workers in eastern Venezuela. The goal was to compare temporal patterns of foraging. I can tell you that when looking at the data in 5-minute intervals, there were large differences from one 5 minute period to the next. When averaged, those differences tend to disappear. I suspect that is indicative of different levels of activity, but the ultimate cause of that is not clear to me. Dr. Gard Otis Dept. of Environmental Biology University of Guelph Guelph, Ontario Canada gotis@evbhort.uoguelph.ca ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 18:31:01 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Bill Miller Subject: MCBA Website I am pleased to announce the Montgomery County (Maryland) Beekeepers Association Website. You can reach it at http://members.aol.com/wgmiller/mcba/mcba.htm W. G. Miller Gaithersburg, MD ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 15:16:00 GMT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Andy Nachbaur Organization: WILD BEE'S BBS (209) 826-8107 LOS BANOS, CA Subject: Re: "Silver Bullet" DFS> When I mentioned the grease patty idea to my wife, she wasn't >suprised by it. As a kid, she raised rabbits and they used to smear >Vaseiline in the rabbits ears to kill the mites. One wonders why FGMO >works over the Crisco patties other than the FGMO might be smaller in size >thana huge glob of vegetable oil and better suited to get into the mites? I also reared rabbits commercially when I was a young man and I purchased rabbits for slaughter from my neighbors for 50 miles around. I got to see real bad cases of ear mites in rabbits. At the time there were vet preparations that you could buy at considerable costs to control the mites. They worked according to the directions and promotions that came with the small bottle of magic potion. But then came along some smart "beekeeper" like rabbit raiser and he choose to ignore the best vet advice and would not spend another nickel on his rabbits that were eating him out of house and home anyway. He told everyone how he used old motor oil to kill the mites the same as he used on his chickens who also got leg mites. I had used old motor oil to control the mites on chicken legs with no problems, but chose to use 3in1 Oil for my rabbits. Both worked and soon mite problems became the exception and not the rule for my rabbits. ttul Andy- (c) Permission is granted to freely copy this document in any form, or to print for any use. (w)Opinions are not necessarily facts. Use at own risk. --- ~ QMPro 1.53 ~ All bees are looking for bargains in nature's supermarket ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 19:45:28 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: krengel lawrence e Subject: Re: Crystallization of honey In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII I am getting intothis discussion in mid stream, but if someone has not mentioned it, honey crystallizes best at temperatures in the 40-50 degree range - just about right for a cool basement. Warmer temperature retard crystalization... as does (as strange as it sounds) freezing it. In order to form crystals molecules have to have around into the correct postion. This requires energy not available at freezing temps. At warmer temps the molecules have enough energy to break the crystal bonds. At least part of this info comes from the ABC to XYZ book from Root. Larry Krengel Marengo, Illinois ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 20:21:54 -0100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Kevin & Ann Christensen Subject: Help Wanted MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I'm posting this for a friend who is looking for experienced help for the 1997 season. Northeast Alberta. Room & Board provided if needed. Sallary based on experience Send resume to: Dave Tharle Box 80 Ardmore, Alberta, Canada T0A 0B0 fax: 403-826-6013 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 18:54:09 -0900 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Tom Elliott Subject: Re: Surviving Varroa MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dave Black wrote: > Would anyone agree that this (surviving untreated) is not the criterion > for success. Surely we would want to monitor the mite population. How > could this be estimated without using a chemical knockdown and stopping > the trial ? I would agree that colonies surviving and remaining healthy is exactly the criterion for success. In the process of developing such bees monitoring representative colonies would be needed. But, that is only for the purpose of study. Beekeepers only want healthy colonies. Tom Elliott ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 01:43:24 -0600 Reply-To: dvisrael@earthlink.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Donald Israel Subject: Varroa treatment MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit There has been much discussion, research, scientific studies and wishing, since the dreaded varroa has attacked and done so much damage. Several discussions have mentioned the mites building up resistance to the medication, some saying it is because of improper use. Is it worse to use too little for to short a time or to leave the strips on too long? If a few mites are still in the hive when the strips are removed, it seems to me that they might be the ones building up the resistance. I know someone(he is smarter than I am, so telling him is out) that only uses his bees for polination and therefore leaves his strips on all the time. If all the mites are dead and there are none in the hive to become resistant, why not leave them there? Comments appreciated. I personally follow the instructions and treat twice yearly. Don PS I went out to treat my hives last week and couldn't find the bees. I believe they were playing "hive and seek" with me. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 12:23:34 +0100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: F Hogenboom Subject: FGMO MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Hi all, Food Grade Mineral Oil: It sounds as a contradictio in terminis. Maybe I,m wrong! What exactly do you understand by FGMO? And not less important: Which Food Grade Mineral Oil acts as a miticide / varroa-icide and eradicates those mighty mites? Thank you for the information. frangois e-mail F Hogenboom.pharm@med.vu.nl ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 14:31:12 GMT+2 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Dawid Swart Organization: NIPB Subject: Re: Interesting Request for Help >Do you know where I could find such a machine? Are there alternatives? You must remember that the foudation presses used in Europe, the Americas and Australasia are made for bigger bee races than those found in Africa. Dont buy a wax-press you can't use. >I am wondering if there are by-products that can be made from very dark honey. Uganda has a great deal of dark honey and my understanding is that this is not too marketable. The word here is marketing. Ugandean honey is unique. Use that to your advantage. The local people will prefer dark honey because they grew up eating it. >Almost all the honey (maybe all) in Uganda is produced in traditional or semi-traditional hives. This means it is harvested in chunks of comb that need to be crushed (I think??) before extraction. Do you have any comments? Again, use the comb-honey to your advantage. If you want to extract honey then start beekeeping in 'Langstroth' hives. Alternatively you can buy or build a honey press, or use the same methods as the locals. Learn from them. Dawid Swart ARC-PLANT PROTECTION RESEARCH INSTITUTE P/Bag x134 Pretoria 0001 South Africa E-Mail PPRIDS@PLANT4.AGRIC.ZA FAX (27)(12) 323-5275 TEL (27)(12) 319-7148 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 07:52:17 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Faith Andrews Bedford Subject: Re: addition In a message dated 97-01-25 04:17:46 EST, someone wrote: << I would like to add another page! This time it will be about beekeepers that sell their honey to their neighbors.Another great way to promote bees and beekeeping. >> When I saw this I felt I should add a note to it and that is..... To create good, neighborly feelings between you and those living nearby, GIVE them a jar of honey each fall as a "thankyou" from you and your bees from the nectar they gathered from your neighbor's flowers. I have found that this keeps my neighbors in a positive mood so that when they see some bees (which, of course, they always assume are mine) at their dog's water dish they think, "Oh well. No problem. I'll get some honey from those nice bees soon." This is especially important for hobby beekeepers who live within close proximity to other families. We need to keep good PR at all times! Faith Andrews Bedford Ivy, VA and Tampa ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 09:55:44 +0000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Dave Black Subject: Re: Surviving Varroa In-Reply-To: <199701280354.SAA11467@calvino.alaska.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 In message <199701280354.SAA11467@calvino.alaska.net>, Tom Elliott writes >I would agree that colonies surviving and remaining healthy is exactly the >criterion for success. Tom, The point I am making is that it is not, and this is because there is a very indirect relationship between mite population and colony mortality. Some colonies survive very high mite populations, some can not survive comparatively low populations. You simply can not say that "my colony has survived therefore it has no mites." > In the process of developing such bees monitoring >representative colonies would be needed. But, that is only for the purpose >of study. Exactly what I am talking about. To measure the efficacy of a Varroa control there must be a way of assaying the Varroa population; waiting for the colony to die or not seems a little harsh and does not prove the point, using a fluvalinate will spoil the trial unless you have loads of colonies, lots of time and like statistics. The later is the only indicator I know. > Beekeepers only want healthy colonies. Without doubt. Regards -- Dave Black <http://www.guildford.ac.uk/beehive>, Guildford, GU1 4RN. UK. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 08:20:55 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ed Levi Subject: Re: "Silver Bullet" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >DFS> When I mentioned the grease patty idea to my wife, she wasn't > >suprised by it. As a kid, she raised rabbits and they used to smear > >Vaseiline in the rabbits ears to kill the mites. One wonders why FGMO > >works over the Crisco patties other than the FGMO might be smaller in size > >thana huge glob of vegetable oil and better suited to get into the mites? > >I also reared rabbits commercially when I was a young man and I >purchased rabbits for slaughter from my neighbors for 50 miles around. > >I got to see real bad cases of ear mites in rabbits. At the time there >were vet preparations that you could buy at considerable costs to >control the mites. They worked according to the directions and >promotions that came with the small bottle of magic potion. > >But then came along some smart "beekeeper" like rabbit raiser and he >choose to ignore the best vet advice and would not spend another >nickel on his rabbits that were eating him out of house and home anyway. >He told everyone how he used old motor oil to kill the mites the same as >he used on his chickens who also got leg mites. > >I had used old motor oil to control the mites on chicken legs with no >problems, but chose to use 3in1 Oil for my rabbits. Both worked and soon >mite problems became the exception and not the rule for my rabbits. > > ttul Andy Andy, Are you suggesting 3in on or used motor oil in bee hives? ;-) Ed ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 08:21:00 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ed Levi Subject: Re: Surviving Varroa Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >Exactly what I am talking about. To measure the efficacy of a Varroa >control there must be a way of assaying the Varroa population; waiting >for the colony to die or not seems a little harsh and does not prove the >point, using a fluvalinate will spoil the trial unless you have loads of >colonies, lots of time and like statistics. The later is the only >indicator I know. >> Beekeepers only want healthy colonies. >Without doubt. > >Regards >-- >Dave Black ><http://www.guildford.ac.uk/beehive>, >Guildford, GU1 4RN. UK. Dave, There are ways of getting pretty accurate guesstimates of varroa infestation levels without using chemicals: Natural drop on sticky boards would be one way. I beleive, ether roll as a percentage of colony population times 5 (for 20% being exposed) would be more accurate. Thirdly, I'm sure you could accertain fair comparative measurements from trapping (using consistant aged drone brood as the trap). With consistant formulas and an unstanding that you are looking for comparisons as opposed to accurate numbers, surely you can test resistance or efficacy of various methods without terminating the test or the bees. Good luck, Ed Levi elevi@aristotle.net AR, US ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 09:59:59 +0000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Dave Black Subject: Re: Apis cerana hive ventilation Comments: To: gotis@evbhort.uoguelph.ca In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 In message , Gard Otis writes > Unfortunately, I am not sure what is meant by the other part of >the question concerning the "synchronised flock movement in A. >dorsata and A. cerana." Yes, I did'nt explain this very well, as Joel pointed out too. A better metaphor I guess is the 'mexican wave' they do when something like a wasp hovers near the combs or entrance. They all move their wings or bodies together producing a wave or shimmer that make them appear one unit. -- Dave Black <http://www.guildford.ac.uk/beehive>, Guildford, GU1 4RN. UK. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 09:51:12 -0800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Vince Coppola Subject: Re: Surviving Varroa MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Tom Elliott wrote: Dave Black wrote: >Would anyone agree that this (surviving untreated) is not the criterion >for success. Surely we would want to monitor the mite population. How >could this be estimated without using a chemical knockdown and stopping >the trial ? > > I would agree that colonies surviving and remaining healthy is exactly the > criterion for success. In the process of developing such monitoring > representative colonies would be needed. But, that is only for the purpose of > study. Beekeepers only want healthy colonies. I think you're both right. It would be improper to use "surviving" as the only criteria in a breeding program for varroa resistance, but colonies that survive in an enviroment where many other colonies have died from varroa may be a good startig point for selection. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 09:28:52 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: kuehn john c Subject: Re: Apis cerana - fanning Comments: cc: BestOfBee@systronix.net In-Reply-To: <19411796301523@systronix.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII In central Illinois, Apis Mellifera fans both ways at the hive entrance. Jack Kuehn University of Illinois Bee Lab ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 11:41:52 +0100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Max.Watkins@SANDOZ.COM Subject: Re: Varroa treatment Comments: To: owner-bee-l@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU Don, To reduce the likelihood of resistant mite strains evolving it is advisable to use a highly efficient acaricide (at a known therapeutic level) over a comparatively short treatment period. It doesn't matter if you're going to take the honey or not, if the strips (Apistan or Bayvarol) are left in all year 'round there is a risk of actively selecting for a resistant strain. Few acaricides always kill 100% of the target every the time but the survivors are NOT necessarily resistant, just lucky they avoided contact. However, if the selection pressure is continuous over a long period it IS possible to promote the emergence of a more tolerant or resistant strain. Label directions on professionally manufactured treatments are there for a reason; the application and efficacy etc have been thoroughly tested by independent beekeepers and bee scientists long before the instructions for use are printed. For more information on resistance see the February issue of Bee World, produced by IBRA. Max ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Varroa treatment Author: owner-bee-l@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU at INTERNET1 Date: 1/28/97 6:42 AM There has been much discussion, research, scientific studies and wishing, since the dreaded varroa has attacked and done so much damage. Several discussions have mentioned the mites building up resistance to the medication, some saying it is because of improper use. Is it worse to use too little for to short a time or to leave the strips on too long? If a few mites are still in the hive when the strips are removed, it seems to me that they might be the ones building up the resistance. I know someone(he is smarter than I am, so telling him is out) that only uses his bees for polination and therefore leaves his strips on all the time. If all the mites are dead and there are none in the hive to become resistant, why not leave them there? Comments appreciated. I personally follow the instructions and treat twice yearly. Don PS I went out to treat my hives last week and couldn't find the bees. I believe they were playing "hive and seek" with me. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 11:06:22 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Malcolm (Tom) Sanford, Florida Extension Apiculturist" Subject: Largest swarm MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Dr. Orely Taylor has described some enormous megaswarms with up to 180 queens I believe in his work with Africanized bees in Linares Mexico. Tom Sanford +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Malcolm (Tom) Sanford Extension Apiculturist University of Florida Mailing Address: Bldg 970, Hull Rd., Gainesville, FL 32611-0620 Voice phone 352/392-1801, Ext. 143 FAX 352/392-0190 INTERNET:MTS@GNV.IFAS.UFL.EDU ==================================================================== Publisher of APIS -- http://www.ifas.ufl.edu/~mts/apishtm/apis.htm Instructor of Principles of Entomology, ENY 3005-- http://www.ifas.ufl.edu/~mts/eny3005/eny3005syl.htm +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 11:18:07 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Victor E Sten Subject: The Canadian Honey Council *(#!*~* Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hi This is a complaint that likely is only of interest to bee keepers in Canada. It has recently come to my attention through an article, written by the president of the CHC, in the "Canadian Beekeeping" magazine that the CHC is attempting to force a levy on all beekeepers and honey importers to be collected by the government. The proceeds as I undersand it is to be allocated to research and promotion mostly the latter. The problem as I see it is not with the aim, but with the levy structure which is proposed as follows: $25 per 100 colonies with a minimum of $25 and a maximum of $250. For imported honey the levy would be 1 cent/lbs. If I look at my own situation which is that I have a grand total of 4 colonies, which is the max number I have had since I started with 4 nucs 11 years ago and so far I have no intention of enlarging my hobby operation. In 1996 like many others I had heavy winter losses 50%, so I split one of them in three to get up to my usual 4, for which reason the harvest amounted to a grand total of 140 lbs. My cost reached a total of $203.09 or $1.45/lbs. The cost is high for the small guy since it is impossible to purchace terramycin in an amount that suits 4 hives, Queens are also expensive not to mention Apistan strips and sugar. Now if I have to pay an additional $25 to CHC then my cost would be $1.63/lbs. If I want to sell any at the gate I can only get $1.30/lbs since that is what a major apiary in theese parts advertise in the local weekly doormats. In the end what we do not consume is given away to family, friends and neighbours. If I had imported 140 lbs of honey my levy would be $1.40 I am of the opinion (based on statistics in the Canaddian B. magz. as interpreted by me and on information of my equipment supplier) that the wast majority of beekeepers have less than 20 colonies and are not making much money. In other words I see the proposed levy to be grossly in favor of of the commercial beekeeper who will also be the main beneficiary. The only ways I could go along with a levy would be with a per pound sold/harvested or a fixed per colony amount. Any opinions out there? Viktor Sten in Hawkesbury, Ontario. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 10:00:40 -0700 Reply-To: allend@internode.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Allen Dick Organization: The Beekeepers Subject: US Bee Magazines MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Re-posted from sci.agriculture.beekeeping FYI ---------------------------------------------- FROM: "Jack Griffes" SUBJECT: Re: Beginner Beekeeper in N. California - magzine info The magazine Bee Culture is published by A.I.Root Co. - they have a web site. The address for their web site is http://www.airoot.com - if memory serves the first part is about their candles but did in and you will find the Bee Culture part. I get the snail mail issue so I haven't explored the site too thouroughly - just know it is there and visited it very briefly one time. They also have a toll free number (800)289-7668 ext. 3220. Their e-mail address is BCULTURE@AOL.COM Snail mail address is A.I. Root Co. Publishers 623 W. Liberty Street Medina, OH 44256 A second USA bee magazine (major one) is American Bee Journal 51 S. 2nd Street Hamilton, IL 62341 (217) 847-3660 - FAX (217) 847-3324 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 15:59:00 GMT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Andy Nachbaur Organization: WILD BEE'S BBS (209) 826-8107 LOS BANOS, CA Subject: Re: "Silver Bullet" >Are you suggesting 3in on or used motor oil in bee hives? ;-) >Ed No, not really, but I will say that one time when a bee crawled into my ear looking for a clear shot at my brain I could think of no other remedy but to pull the dip stick from my still warm truck motor and let it drip warm motor oil into my ear. It worked like a charm and I was able to easily remove the dead bee from my ear without a sting and did not suffer any problems from that oil. I guess if a beekeeper had nothing else but old motor oil that would be OK for the little that is going to be used on a wax paper sheet in the bottom of the hive, but I suspect most beekeepers will be using the veggie type of so called food grade oils which is really not that much better if you were going to mix it with your honey other then cleaner. ttul Andy- (c) Permission is granted to freely copy this document in any form, or to print for any use. (w)Opinions are not necessarily facts. Use at own risk. --- ~ QMPro 1.53 ~ ... Nor will a bee buzz round two swelling peaches, ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 13:28:21 -0500 Reply-To: beeworks@muskoka.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: David Eyre Organization: The Beeworks Subject: Re: bee's wax candles In-Reply-To: <32EDE3C6.2F1E@edu.sollentuna.se> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT On 28 Jan 97 at 12:32, Fredrik Edin wrote: bee's wax candles > Hello! > My name is Fredrik Edin, and I am a Swedish student. Since I work in a > store selling bee's wax candles, I am writing a big report for school on > bee's wax candles, but it's very hard for me to get any information > about my subject. I am going to investigate what part bee's wax candles > play in today's society, but I need to do a history research as well, so > I need some history material, and I was wondering if you could give me > some tips on where I can find that. I received the above from the Web. Would someone care to help? ********************************************************* The Bee Works, 9 Progress Drive Unit 2, Orillia, Ontario, Canada. L3V 6H1 David Eyre, Owner. Phone/Fax 705 326 7171 Dealers for E.H.Thorne & B.J.Sherriff UK http://www.muskoka.net/~beeworks ********************************************************* ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 19:49:47 +0000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Daryl L. Wright" Subject: Re: Surviving Varroa Colonies that seem to survive in an area of high mite investation may not be due to the 'resistance' quality of that colony. There are many instances where colonies do not collapse. On closer examination, you may find mite levels that exceed the upper limits of models that have been generated (e.g. 24,000 mites in a colony with 8 frames of bees). From these colonies, the conclusion they are still thriving may be because of the general health of the colony and disease has not been a contributing factor. For any claim in tolerance, I would like to see evidence that there are no mites in the hive. If you don't use a diagnostic tool, maybe a trapping system might be in order to monitor the natural mortality of the mite (if there are any). Daryl Wright England ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 15:20:17 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Harry Sweet Subject: Re: AOL In a message dated 97-01-26 22:47:49 EST, you write: << Hi Bee Friends, A little off the subject of bees, beekeeping, and beekeepers but one can not be part of the information highway without at least knowing some who use AOL. I agree with all who have said bad things about this company but I want you all to know that there is a way to use AOL and be a happy camper. (At least for the time being.) >>snip ttul Andy- >> Hey dudes I flash my bee mail at lunchtime - no problem... aol's 28.8 lines are always busy but I can access their 14.4 lines except in the pm I had connection problems with aol last spring - it got better. This problem will also get better (eventually). It's a bit wet here in CA, but I remember a very long drought not long ago so I'll deal with it. My girls are bringing in the goodies and they're not covered in snow. It's gonna be a killer spring here in a couple of months. Winter's on the way Oz! Take care everybody and don't let the BEE-L grinches get you down. Harry Sweet ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 12:37:05 -0800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Kerry Clark of AGF 784-2225 fax (604) 784 2299" Subject: Re: colonies surviving varroa MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 08:29:02 -0800 (PST) From: "Kerry Clark of AGF 784-2225 fax (604) 784 2299" Subject: Re: Surviving Varroa Survival with varroa and without treatment is not necessarily an indication of resistant bees. In some situations, survival of a colony can result from the type of varroa, rather than some characteristic of the bees. Buchler 1994, in Bee World 75 (2): 54 - 70 (this good review of varroa tolerance is available at the IBRA website) mentions an isolated apiary in Austria where colonies have been maintained with varroa and without treatment for 8 years. One explanation might be that resistance or tolerance has been selected in the bees. However, when unselected bee stock is brought (without varroa) into the area, it too becomes only moderately infested and does not require treatment. The key difference seems to be that 50 to 60 % of these varroa in worker brood are infertile. de Guzman's work in detecting 2 different types of varroa in North America might be a step along the way toward benefiting from this type of observation. I think this was reported at ABRC, but I wasn't there. Can anyone who attended, add a comment? Selection of "less pathogenic" tracheal mites might also be happening throughout North America, at the same time as "resistance" may be building in bee stock. By the way, although many of these discussions use "tolerance" and "resistance" (to varroa) interchangeabley, it seems to me that tolerance implies no effect on the (former) harmful agent, while resistance would include (but maybe not be limited to) mechanisms that inhibit the source of the harm. eg. a bee stock that is tolerant of tracheal mites, might show no lower infestation than other stocks, but would do better in spite of it. A bee stock that is resistant to tracheal mites would show consistently lower infestations (with the same tracheal mite population). Is this distinction consistent with usage of these terms in parasitology? If so, it seems to me we should be referring to varroa being selected showing "tolerance" to fluvalinate, rather than "resistance": Where varroa have been selected and are no longer controlled by fluvalinate, I don't imagine that there is any less fluvalinate in the hive environment, the mites are just tolerating it more. Regards Kerry Clark, Apiculture Specialist B.C. Ministry of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food 1201 103 Ave Dawson Creek B.C. V1G 4J2 CANADA Tel (250) 784-2231 fax (250) 784-2299 INTERNET kclark@galaxy.gov.bc.ca ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 14:58:49 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jim Maus MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit BEE-L NOMAIL ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 15:14:12 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Kelley Rosenlund Subject: Coloring books etc... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hello all, It looks like I will be doing more than the occasional presentation to children on bees and I am looking for word searches, coloring pages, etc to hand out to children up to 10 years old. Will be doing a presentation on bees at my girlfriend's son's middle school to about 400 children so I need things that are not copywrited so I can copy as needed. If y'all have know of any web pages I can download stuff or have anything at home I can copy pleases let me know or mail to: Kelley Rosenlund 1219 N.W. 43 Ave Gainesville, Florida USA 32609 God Bless, Kelley Rosenlund rosenlk@freenet.ufl.edu Gainesville, Florida, U.S.A., Phone:352-378-7510 200 hives, almost 2 years in beekeeping. 8 frame deeps,shallows. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 17:36:56 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Carl H. Powell" Subject: Calif. news... Hi to our Calif. counterparts, The thought occurred to me, has anybody made ANY attempts to try to find any 'boxes' that may have snagged on rocks, culverts, trees, etc.? I would think with the number reported swept away that more than a few would be left for someone with a little time to take a walk along the rocks. Hobbyist level guy like me would be more than appreciative of a few free boxes. Dovetail joints are rather strong. They may even still have frames in them with beeswax that could be harvested even if the honey/brood has been ruined. Here in Tidewater we find some REALLY odd flotsam and jetsam from time to time. :-) Carl watchman@qwick.net Tidewater,Va. ... Contentsoftaglinemaysettleduringshipping. ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20 ... "I remember doing the time-warp..." ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 19:42:42 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jinnah Edun Subject: birds Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sorry to go off topic, but any one have any bird lists? ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 19:45:46 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jinnah Edun Subject: My Birds! Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" For all of you who replied to me before, you should remember. I have the budgies. The two is now one. After so many weeks, the oldest one, had no food in its crop and died of starvation. I would love to know why the male went so far, then suddenly stopped feeding him. However, one is left, and does anyone know of any way that I can save the last young bird because it does not look like he is getting much food at all! Please help me. This makes me feel so sad. I am really really sorry to all of you bee people. Please, I am in a mid-life crisis and have no clue as to what to do! Jinnah ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 20:22:29 -0600 Reply-To: bbirkey@interaccess.com Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Barry Birkey Organization: www.Birkey.Com Subject: Re: My Birds! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jinnah Edun wrote: > > For all of you who replied to me before, you should remember. I have the > budgies. The two is now one. After so many weeks, the oldest one, had no > food in its crop and died of starvation. I would love to know why the male went > so far, then suddenly stopped feeding him. However, one is left, and does > anyone know of any way that I can save the last young bird because it does not > look like he is getting much food at all! Please help me. This makes me feel > so sad. I am really really sorry to all of you bee people. Please, I am in a > mid-life crisis and have no clue as to what to do! > > Jinnah Jinnah - I posted a whole slew of places you could get help on the net several weeks ago. Didn't you get it? -Barry -- Barry Birkey West Chicago, Illinois USA bbirkey@interaccess.com http://www.birkey.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 29 Jan 1997 13:33:13 +0900 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Bill and Kim Fasser Subject: Re: Coloring books etc... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ---------- > From: Kelley Rosenlund > To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU > Subject: Coloring books etc... > Date: Wednesday, January 29, 1997 5:14 AM > > Hello all, > > It looks like I will be doing more than the occasional presentation to children on bees and I am looking for word searches, coloring pages, etc to hand out to children up to 10 years old. Will be doing a presentation on bees at my girlfriend's son's middle school to about 400 children so I need things that are not copywrited so I can copy as needed. > > If y'all have know of any web pages I can download stuff or have anything at home I can copy pleases let me know or mail to: > > Kelley Rosenlund > 1219 N.W. 43 Ave > Gainesville, Florida USA > 32609 > God Bless, > Kelley Rosenlund rosenlk@freenet.ufl.edu > Gainesville, Florida, U.S.A., Phone:352-378-7510 > 200 hives, almost 2 years in beekeeping. 8 frame deeps,shallows. Dear Kelley, Hi, my name is Kim Fasser and currently my husband, myself, and our 5 kids are stationed in Japan. We will be returning to the states in June.....to Eglin AFB, Fla. Not only do I want to learn about bee-keeping and get started, I am am artist. If you don't find what you need from others, please write back with dates and times as to when you need the pictures. I will have my husband do his computer wizzardry and send you any tpye of drawing you need. (I will do the art work and he will do the computer stuff!) Let me know if I can help.... I can't wait to get to Florida!!! Sincerely, Kim Fasser