Date sent: Sun, 9 Feb 1997 08:27:12 -0500 From: "L-Soft list server at University at Albany (1.8c)" Subject: File: "BEE-L LOG9702A" To: "W. Allen Dick" Forwarded by: Date forwarded: Sun, 9 Feb 97 06:11:47 EST Forwarded to: allend@mail1.internode.net ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 30 Jan 1997 10:17:51 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: KEN LAWRENCE Subject: Re: E.mail address for Evan Sugden MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Trevor Weatherhead wrote: > > Does anyone have the e.mail address for Evan Sugden. A compatriot of mine > wants to contact him re a paper he wrote back in 1992. > > In anticipation - thanks. > > Trevor Weatherhead > ASUTRALIA Here is the address as I just ordered Mason Bees from him. easugden@msn.com Ken ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 1 Feb 1997 06:29:25 +0000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Rick Grossman Subject: Re: Catalog 1997 from Wicwas Press Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Please send your price list as below to: Richard Grossman PO Box 1028 Tualatin, OR 97062 Thanks! At 06:10 PM 1/31/97 +0000, you wrote: >Dear List Members: > >Wicwas Press has a new price list, which has been mailed to current customers >only. The list contains about 300 book titles, plus educational video programs >and slide sets. If you would like a copy sent to you by surface mail, I will send >it to you free. (It is not available via internet as an attached file). >Quantities of the list may be requested for use in bee schools, classes on bees, >bee associations, honey sales booths, etc. Just let me know how many you can use. > >Make your requests to > >"Catalog request" >LJConnor@aol.com >Wicwas Press LLC >P.O. Box 817 >Cheshire CT 06410 USA >phone and fax 203 250 7575 > >Thanks! >Larry Connor > ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 1 Feb 1997 09:07:48 +0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: George_Willy Subject: Re: Uganda move - dark honey Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" As a child when working with the bakers in our family restaurant we were always looking for the darkest honey we could find because the flavor was stronger and would carry through the baking process better and because of the color was prefered in the finished product. The restaurant was a german restaurant and produced stollen, leibkuken, specilatcious, pefferneuis, springula and lots of other specialities. Please excuse the spelling of these cookies in that the restaurant no longer is and its been a while. In the European style of baking there are it seems the extreemly fine pastrys with very light and delicate taste and texture or the heartier pastrys and breads ment to nourish. It is these heartier pastrys that I am familiar with that used honey so dark that it resembled molassas. Another reason for the use of honey in baked goods is that it is hydroscopic and absorbs moisture and keeps a baked product fresher longer. Not good for cookies that need to be short and crisp but excellent for breads and moist products. Please excuse my rambling on but if there is a surplus of Ugandian honey exceptionly dark, the baking companys of Europe, Russa, United States, and especally the Scandinavian countrys might be the answer. Just one other thought with internet accessability and the amount of people and free information out there so willing to help you should have no problem in finding a market. Good luck George George & Lorraine Willy The Village Inn of East Burke Box 186 East Burke, Vermont 05832 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 1 Feb 1997 09:23:47 -0800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Roy Nettlebeck Subject: Re: Surviving Varroa In-Reply-To: <32EE3C90.2354@epix.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Tue, 28 Jan 1997, Vince Coppola wrote: > Tom Elliott wrote: > Dave Black wrote: > >Would anyone agree that this (surviving untreated) is not the criterion > >for success. Surely we would want to monitor the mite population. How > >could this be estimated without using a chemical knockdown and stopping > >the trial ? > > > > I would agree that colonies surviving and remaining healthy is exactly the > > criterion for success. In the process of developing such monitoring > > representative colonies would be needed. But, that is only for the purpose of > > study. Beekeepers only want healthy colonies. > > > I think you're both right. It would be improper to use > "surviving" as the only criteria in a breeding program for varroa > resistance, but colonies that survive in an enviroment where many other > colonies have died from varroa may be a good startig point for > selection. > Hi Vince and All, I think your on the right track with one problem. The Viruses are a wild card.That has to be delt with also.There is a strong correlation between hive death and a virus.This area is being studied so maybe we can get some numbers or % of bees which have a virus.When the USDA did a check in the USA of 10 States All ten had viruses.. Varroa is a vector for the virus. At what level and what virus do the bees have? In the book Honey Bee Pathology by Ball and Bailey 2nd. edition it states how fast a hive can die with with a virus. Of course not all viruses are the same. But one bee infected with a virus has enough germ plasm to kill 1,000 hives.That is no little problem.As I see it, to screen for Varroa resistance and colony motality , you have to address the problem of another pathogen present in the hive. My own personal idea is, the better health you maintain your hives , the less chance that the viruses have to kill your hives.Of course that is using mans brain and knowing something about immune systems.I would bet anything on the quality of the beekeeping will have a large effect on the mortality of the hives.There is too big of a spred on the death of hives do to Varroa. Stress speeds up the death of a hive. I found that out the hard way.The hives that I moved died in 30 days (50 hives) and the ones that I left on the mountain (30 hives) had some Varroa but were in good shape for the winter and made it thru OK.They did not have a resistance to Varroa. I agree with finding stock that shows a resistance to Varroa. I think that is the only real fix.We have to way out some variables and do a very controled selection. I know a beekeeper that has 240 hives and has never used apistan but has used grease pattys. He has checked for Varroa with either rolls and no mites.His hives are not moved and there is mint in the area he has his bees. We do have a problem that can be solved over time with good research.It will take beekeepers all over to help get to the solution.Natural resistance is the answer. Best Regards Roy ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 1 Feb 1997 12:50:49 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Janet Montgomery & Dan Veilleux Subject: cleaning leather gloves Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" does anyone have any words of wisdom on cleaning propolis from leather gloves without destroying them? salad oil, solvent, handcream ???? thanks Dan Veilleux Columbus , Ohio USA Janet Montgomery 104 Fallis Road Columbus, Ohio 43214-3724 Home: (614) 784-8334 FAX: (614) 268-3107 E-mail: MONTVEIL@IWAYNET.NET ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 1 Feb 1997 15:16:22 -0700 Reply-To: allend@internode.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Allen Dick Organization: The Beekeepers Subject: Handling Syrup for Feed MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT (This is a continuation of my recent article on drum feeding. I started to write this to a friend and then decided to share it). I think feeding can significantly increase a beekeeper's income by displacing honey with feed sugar -- and increasing populations (if you have use for them and they don't eat you out of house and home). If the broods are full, then honey goes upstairs. Even poor honey is worth much more than syrup. You need good syrup handling equipment though, and syrup is heavy to haul. On the downside, you'll have to haul a lot of honey home at extracting time, and the hives may not be so easy to carry to pollination. My personal belief, after feeding everything imaginable to my bees over the years, is that it is wise to serve them only the very best human grade sugar or syrup and not to use off spec bargains. I realise some use brown sugar and get away with it, but I wouldn't personally consider it a good investment. Honey is the bees' fuel, just as pollen is their bread. The purity of the fuel for bees -- just like cars or furnaces -- is very important. I reason that *any* stress that is not necessary should be avoided, since we don't ever know which will be the figurative 'straw' that breaks the camel's back, when mites, sprays, moving, splitting, and many other stresses gang up on the bees. A truckload of HFCS or sucrose fills about 80-100 drums. If you don't have tanks, you can fill drums in your warehouse and roll them onto your trailer or truck with a handcart. You can then then bail them into the yard feeder drums with a bucket -- if you use open top drums. Closed top drums require a pump or tipping to pour, a tricky proposition. It will be difficult to fill them, too. They are useless for open feeding unless you cut the lid off. If you can't use, or can't afford a whole load, you can sell surplus drums of syrup to other beekeepers or share a load. On occasion, I have been able to convince a dealer to send a half load by paying an extra $150 or so to cover the empty half of the truck. That is cheaper than doing without syrup because the price is too high, or holding syrup you don't need, and which can ferment over several months in warm weather. Even at 67%, syrup can turn slowly -- especially if the water and drums or tanks are not sterile or sealed. Syrup *is* sterile when delivered and if filled into clean vessels *should* not turn, but do monitor syrup if you have too much and wind up storing some. If you get HFCS, it comes at 77%, and you are wise to have enough water already in each tank or drum to dilute to 67% (the ideal feeding strength). This prevents granulation, too. If you specify when you order, the truck can come with a pump and up to 50 feet of 3" hose that will reach right into your warehouse and fill your tanks or open top drums which shuold have water already in them. You can also fill them outside, but be sure to seal them against bees immediately. The turbulence of filling should mix the HFCS and water pretty well, but after standing a while the syrup at the bottom of the tank will be a little thicker than the top. This is only a problem if you are trying to pump at freezing temperatures and have a marginal motor on the pump. A word here on sanitation and materials: Although bees can handle a lot of filth (most of the time), it is not smart to give them more dirt and dead bees, etc. in their feed than necessary or to use questionable materials for holding and dispensing feed. People can eat unbelievable things too, often without ill effect, (Seems I heard about some fellow in Europe eating an entire bus, bit by bit) but we generally strive for cleanliness to be safe. Many beekeepers, myself included, use gas tanks, rubber hoses, etc. that are not intended for food use for feeding our bees. The logic is that the feed is for the bees, and not people. However, bees can be poisoned too, and besides, there is the remote chance that some of the feed can wind up in human food, so I generally try not to use anything I would not put into my own mouth, and look for materials that are the least potentially harmful. Pumps: It is much easier to pump the syrup than to use other methods of moving it. We feed in hive using frame feeders which stay in *every* brood chamber year round. That means our hives have two feeders -- one top and one bottom, and we can choose just to fill the top, or to twist the top box and fill the lower too. We also feed outside the hive, using open drums as described fairly well in a previous article. Each method is useful in different circumstances. For feeding in drums, we receive the syrup in three or four 1250 US gallon tanks of the farm water tank variety. Each has a 2" outlet on the bottom, which is fitted inside with a siphon made of a plastic pipe el, to ensure draining the tank. A manhole on top allows for cleaning etc. There are vents in the lid to prevent collapsing the tank when pumping from the bottom (It has been done!). These vents must be screened or bees and wasps will soon fill the tank. A 1-1/2" square of common window screen pushed in with a pencil works well. As mentioned, we have water from a city supply (sterile) already waiting in the tank to dilute the syrup if we are getting HFCS. HFCS arrives at about 95 degrees F. and mixes well when warm. Attached to the bottom outlet, we have a ball valve and a Camloc (r) connector. Using several feet of plastic suction hose (as short as practicable), a general purpose pump with a 3-1/2 HP B&S motor can be connected quickly. In cool weather when syrup is thicker, we use a belt driven 1-1/4" Jabsco honey pump with a 2 HP electric motor (this motor could as easily be 1 HP). I have seen the 5 HP Honda powered pump do a nice job at a neighbours' place in cool conditions. Twenty feet of 2" suction type hose attaches to the outlet side of the pump and can fill a 500 gallon tank that we use on the one ton truck, a 1250 gallon tank on a 3 Ton Truck, or our frame feeder filling system. Our frame feeder filling system is a 250 gallon gas tank with a Jabsco honey pump attached. The pump is driven by a 12 volt motor, and the whole thing is controlled by a normal Pumptrol (r) set at about 20/30 pounds pressure. Since a rubber 35 foot gasoline hose is used on the pump outlet, there is a bit of elasticity there and the pump therefore does not cycle out of control. On the end of the hose is the kind of gasoline nozzle that you use every time you fuel up at a gas station. It has swivels, and nice balance. My fuel agent gives me the ones that wear out in retail service. I cut the plastic cover off, take out the auto-shutoff mechanism, and they work well for us. All syrup must be kept clean or it will plug the nozzle valve. Don't let bees get into the tank, and if you are tempted to feed honey make sure there is no wax in it. Trucks and Trailers: If your own truck is not up to the job, truck rental -- for a week or so -- might pay hansomely. Using too small a vehicle can be very dangerous and costly. Remember that syrup will slosh around in a half-empty tank, and, if the truck is not heavy enough for the job, the surging may throw you right off the road -- or, worse still -- into the path of an oncoming vehicle, so test your vehicle and loading carefully before starting off on a trip. Trailers in particular can be very tricky. We had one flip a truck this spring, and it only had a small (250 gallon) tank on it -- and it was a 10,000 pound rated trailer. Also remember that when you go on a side hill or up or down steep hills that your load will shift drastically and can tip you over or break springs! Never exceed the rating printed on your tires, and make sure your tires are fully inflated. Syrup is heavy. One drum weighs about 600 pounds. It is well worth going over a scale and making sure that one axle is not overloaded, while the other is light the first few time you haul syrup. That's about all I can think of right now. Sorry if it is a little disjointed. We're packing to go to the mountains to take our crew skiing for a treat, so I have to go without too much more re-writing. I am sure there will be questions, so direct them to me. With the Chinook we are experiencing, snow is melting fast, and we are about to put all the above to work soon. We went to look at a few yards yesterday. Wintering results are mixed so far (with a small sample). A report will follow later. Later... Regards Allen W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper VE6CFK RR#1, Swalwell, Alberta Canada T0M 1Y0 Internet:dicka@cuug.ab.ca & allend@internode.net Honey. Bees, & Art ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 2 Feb 1997 12:49:12 +1100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Nick Wallingford Subject: Sugar to stores conversion... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Some time back there was a thread discussing feeding of syrup of varying 'thickness'. I finally came across a few articles that I had been reminded of. Murray Reid, AAO from New Zealand (who reads and posts to this list) summarised a lot of the existing research back in the May 1974 issue of the New Zealand Beekeeper, pages 41-43: Summary of that article - Bees must invert or 'digest' sucrose molecules and reduce the water content before storing. With dry sugar, bees must add considerable water first. He quotes Simpson as saying that if sugar content is greater than 59%. Enzymes (particularly invertase) needed for reducing molecules are from hypopharyngeal glands (same as for producing royal jelly for larvae and queens). Nosema affects these glands. Refers to Russian reserach correlating honey production of hive to efficiency of enzyme production by bees. Converting sugar into 'honey' is exhausting process in terms of energy. Must produce enzymes, secrete them, suck up syrup, invert it, keep hive temp high to help evaporate extra moisture, as well as secrete and manipulate the was to store it in. Wedmore calculated 60-70% of heat generated from eating stores is used for heating the bees, 20% to evaporate the extra moisture, 10% to heat the air. Ribbands estimated the energy (heat) needed to evaporate 1 lb of water at 4-5 oz of sugar. (25%, compared to 20% estimate by Wedmore above). Consumption of honey also releases water (as honey is 17-18% water). Some of this lost through rectum in cleansing flights. One pound beewax can give 35,000 cells, and hold 22 pounds of honey. Estimates give 6-10 pounds honey to produce 1 pound wax, so significant amount of original sugar stores will be used to produce the wax and maintain high cluster temperature needed to manipulate wax. Case study: Let's feed 4 gal of 2:1 or 62% white sugar syrup. 32 pounds sugar at the rate of 16 pounds/gallon and will weigh 52 pounds or so. Assume 18% moisture for the ripened stores, will need to lose 20% water or about 10.4 pounds. This equals elimination cost of nearly 3 pounds of sugar, if 4-5 oz are lost per pound of water evaporated. This sugar, when consumed, will also release extra water requiring energy to eliminate... Bees will use 5-9 pounds of honey or sugar to build the wax to hold the syrup. From original 52 pounds of syrup, we have lost or used 10.5 pounds of water, and say 11 pounds of sugar. Now have about 30.5 pounds of ripened stores. Rule of thumb for ripened stores in comb is slightly less than the dry weight of the sugar going into the original syrup. In this case 30 pounds stores from 32 pounds sugar. Recommendations: Don't leave sugar feeding too late in autumn. Feed while: (1) there are plenty of older expendable bees with active glands still present (2) it is not too cold to secrete wax (3) it is not tool cold or damp for efficient evaporation of moisture from hive (4) there are still some natural honey stores in the hive. "BEES DO NOT FREEZE TO DEATH - THEY STARVE TO DEATH" (\ Nick Wallingford {|||8- home nickw@wave.co.nz (/ work nw1@boppoly.ac.nz NZ Beekeeping http://www.wave.co.nz/pages/nickw/nzbkpg.htm ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 1 Feb 1997 19:23:34 EDT Reply-To: mnasr@evbhort.uoguelph.ca Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Medhat Nasr Organization: Environ. Biology & Horticulture Subject: Re: mechanisms of tracheal mite tolerance Comments: To: EVBNET/MNASR@evbhort.uoguelph.ca B-liners: Some thoughts about the Tracheal mite resistance in honey bees. In recent years, we have learned about mechanisms of honey bee resistance to varroa mites, Thanks to Apis cerana and to Peng et al. 1987's study in China. A contrast comparative study showed that the hygienic mechanism is an effective method of keeping varroa mites under control in the Asian bee colonies. Several studies followed this study and shed more lights on other mechanisms of resistance to varroa. On the other hand, there are few studies which have focused on resistance to tracheal mites. These studies are not as advanced as the varroa study due to several factors: 1. There is no race or line of bees known for resistance as we have in the case of cerana bees. All the known resistant bees such as the Buckfast bees or tracheal mite resistant bred bees were recently confirmed as resistant bees using sophisticated bioassay tests. In addition, we need to test the bee lines to make sure that they are resistant before conducting any study. Thus, any study will take more time and will cost more money to conduct. Who is going to pay the bill? 2. The microscopic size of tracheal mites and the nature of the parasite as an internal obligatory parasite cause difficulty in handling the mites and conducting this type of detailed study. Although the above mentioned difficulties, there are several reports about possible mechanisms for tracheal mite resistance in honey bees. Several studies (Lee 1963, Gary and Page,1987, Gary et al. 1989, Nasr et al. (Unpublished data) and others reported differences in abundance and prevalences of mites in honey bees. These tested bees had different relative attractiveness to tracheal mite as they age. Tracheal mites preferentially infest bees <24 h-old and the frequency of infestation declines quickly thereafter; Bees >4 days old were rarely infested. Bees of mite resistant lines could be attractive to mites for a relatively shorter period of time than susceptible lines or bees of mite resistance could be less attractive to mites during that window of time in their age than the susceptible lines. The end result in both cases is that fewer migratory female mites migrate into their tracheae over the four day period when bees are attractive to mites. There is recent unpublished research showed that tracheal mite resistant bees are less attractive to infestation by tracheal mites during that window of their age than susceptible bees. Based on the deferential attractiveness of honey bees to tracheal mites, we (Ontario Bee breeders, Canada) are using a bioassay test to identify bees less attractive to mites within the first 7 days of their life. The identified lines are then subjected to a breeding system to increase the frequency of the criteria in the subsequent generations. There was also an early study showed that the presence of spiracular hairs had no effect on mite infestation. Recently, some researchers restudied this mechanism. Early results showed that bees with hairy spiracles had less mites! Researching the mechanisms of resistance to tracheal mites will progress and advance in the coming years. More focus will be on the biology of bees (population dynamics, broodless periods, etc.) in relation to mite population. In addition physiological, physical, and behavioural mechanisms to explain the resistance to tracheal mites will be investigated. Medhat Nasr, Ph.D. Ontario Beekeepers' Association Ontario, Canada > > > > > On 30 Jan 97 > at 18:13, Stan Sandler wrote: mechanisms of tracheal mite > tolerance > > > > > The interesting discussion about varroa mite resistance / tolerance has me > > > curious about tracheal mites now. In the types of bees that have shown > > > greater tolerance what mechanisms contribute to this? > > > > We have been working with Dr.Nasr and the Ontario Breeding program for a > > number of years now. They can tell us wether our strain of bees are > > resistant or tolerant to T-mites, but not a word about the mechanisms. It has > > been known, for a long time, that the mature mite moves out and looks for a > > new host under 4 days old. Beyond that, nothing. > > It is thought that the mites don't like the taste of the new host and > > move back out, as there is record of bite marks in some tracheae but no > > mites. > > > > ********************************************************* > > The Bee Works, 9 Progress Drive Unit 2, Orillia, > > Ontario, Canada. L3V 6H1 > > David Eyre, Owner. Phone/Fax 705 326 7171 > > Dealers for E.H.Thorne & B.J.Sherriff UK > > http://www.muskoka.net/~beeworks > > ********************************************************* > > > ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 1 Feb 1997 14:49:25 -1000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Walter Patton Subject: Re: Surviving Varroa MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ---------- Aloha and happy New Year to all. Seeing Roy posting caused me to think maybe I might be able to get some curiosity aroused about the origin of viruses now reportedly being found by the USDA in 10 hives across the United States Of America. NOTE & QUESTION was the viruses testing done by the USDA in the US or were the test samples taken back to Australia for determination. Aloha and happy New Year to all. Seeing Roy posting caused me to think maybe I might be able to get some curiosity aroused about the origin of viruses now reportedly being found by the USDA in 10 hives across the United States Of America. NOTE & QUESTION was the viruses testing done by the USDA in the US or were the test samples taken back to Australia for determination. Aloha and happy New Year to all. Seeing Roy's posting caused me to think maybe I could get some curiosity aroused about the origin of viruses now reportedly being found by the USDA in 10 hives across the United States Of America.{NOTE & QUESTION was the viruses testing done by the USDA in the US or were the test samples taken back to Australia for determination. } I agree that varroa studies must include the understanding of viruses present with the subject hive. Living in Hawaii with our mite free colonies and desiring to protect this Hawaiian resource that might play a vital role in the restocking of US. beekeepers in the future I continue to be curious with the virus issue. Knowing that some respected bee researchers have speculated that the Kashmir bee virus first attached to the honey bee in the southern hemisphere and has been spread around by the international shipments of live honey bees, I remain very concerned about the viruses. I sure would like to see some answers to some of the virus questions. Can viruses be transmitted in semen? Are viruses a factor in varroa bee hive decline? Where do the viruses come from and how wide spread is the KBV in all areas of the US? Can the USDA test for viruses in-house and in what volume? Does Hawaii have KBV? Does Alaska have KBV? If honey bees known to have KBV are allowed to be imported to the USA will this cause the continued introduction and spread of viruses across the USA? Does anyone know or want to know the answers to these questions? Is any one listening and does anybody care? I do not know the answers, and I do know if Hawaii's honey bees are really of any special importance. If Hawaii's honey bees were found to be virus and mite free it kind of seems like the bees could bee of worthy of consideration and protection as a natural resource of the USA Some might say this is a Hawaii issue and the issue is much bigger then the Hawaii beekeeping industry. This is all about money the people wanting to import honey bees to the US are big bucks folks and the big money beekeepers in Hawaii don't want to do nothing as they say" There ain't nothin broke so don't be trying to fix that which ain't broke". Well I agree that Hawaii beekeeping is very healthy and the USA beekeeping picture appears to be badly broken, and if the Hawaiian honey bees prove to be important to US beekeepers US beekeepers need to become more demanding for information about viruses. The USDA seems to have little concern for the viruses . Well I've given this my best shot and I need to get out and work in my garden with our 78 degree partly cloudy weather here in Paradise. Come visit. All who come in peace are welcome. Bee Healthy and God bless the United States Honey Bee Walter Patton-Hawaiian Honey House and Hale Lamalani B & B (House of Heavenly Light) A Hawaii Beekeeper's Bed & Breakfast 27-703A Kaieie Rd.,Papaikou,HI. 96781 Ph./Fax 808-964-5401 or hihoney@ilhawaii.net http:\www.alohamall.com/hamakua/hihoney/htm. "TheBeehive,The Fountain of Youth and Health" > From: Roy Nettlebeck o: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU > Subject: Re: Surviving Varroa > Date: Saturday, February 01, 1997 7:23 AM > > Hi Vince and All, I think your on the right track with one problem. The > Viruses are a wild card.That has to be delt with also.There is a strong > correlation between hive death and a virus.This area is being studied so > maybe we can get some numbers or % of bees which have a virus.When the > USDA did a check in the USA of 10 States All ten had viruses.. Varroa is a > vector for the virus. At what level and what virus do the bees have? In > the book Honey Bee Pathology by Ball and Bailey 2nd. edition it states how > fast a hive can die with with a virus. Of course not all viruses are the > same. But one bee infected with a virus has enough germ plasm to kill > 1,000 hives.That is no little problem.As I see it, to screen for Varroa > resistance and colony motality , you have to address the problem of > another pathogen present in the hive. > My own personal idea is, the better health you maintain your hives , the > less chance that the viruses have to kill your hives.Of course that is > using mans brain and knowing something about immune systems.I would bet > anything on the quality of the beekeeping will have a large effect on the > mortality of the hives.There is too big of a spred on the death of hives > do to Varroa. Stress speeds up the death of a hive. I found that out the > hard way.The hives that I moved died in 30 days (50 hives) and the ones > that I left on the mountain (30 hives) had some Varroa but were in good > shape for the winter and made it thru OK.They did not have a resistance to > Varroa. I agree with finding stock that shows a resistance to Varroa. I > think that is the only real fix.We have to way out some variables and do a > very controled selection. I know a beekeeper that has 240 hives and has > never used apistan but has used grease pattys. He has checked for Varroa > with either rolls and no mites.His hives are not moved and there is mint > in the area he has his bees. > We do have a problem that can be solved over time with good research.It > will take beekeepers all over to help get to the solution.Natural > resistance is the answer. > Best Regards > Roy ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 1 Feb 1997 20:20:44 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Albert W Needham Subject: Re: Surviving Varroa On Sat, 1 Feb 1997 14:49:25 -1000 Walter Patton writes: > Well I've given this my best shot and I need to get out and work in my garden > with our 78 degree partly cloudy weather here in Paradise. Walter: Aren't you currently getting a bit of smoke and hot stuff issuing up from the bowels of the earth out there in "Paradise"? :-) Al .................................................................................. .................... Al Needham--Scituate,MA,USA--awneedham@juno.com "The HoneyBee"--An Educational Program About Honey Bees With A Superb Slide Show-Version 2.0 (c) 1997 Download From: http://www.kuai.se/~beeman ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 1 Feb 1997 23:28:44 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Gerry Visel Subject: Spring is coming! Hi all, It got into the 40s (degrees F., 5+ degrees C) here today, 20 miles south of the Wisconsin line, 100 miles west of Chicago, and so I checked my beeses to see how they is doing: All five are strong and building! In seven years, I have never had all of them make it through, (recognizing that we are not there yet,) but what a neat feeling! They are all at the top of double hive bodies, and the combs I could see there appeared empty of honey. One hive, the end one, had a _large_ pile of dead bees at the entrance, but there were lots inside. This winter, I have done the following things that seem to have worked so far: 1. I put mite strips on for six weeks in September - October, and I kept baggie feeders on them then with sugar syrup. Toward the end, I mixed in some wintergreen oil per Jim Amrine's findings. They took a lot of syrup down, but never did really fill the combs. Each hive probably used 2 1/2 gallons (9.5 liters) or so. 2. I moved the hives up beside the barn, out of the wind, where I could watch things better. I tried to keep the bottom entrances clear of snow, and open. (#1 was clogged, probably the cause of the pile of dead bees.) I tilted them all well forward to let moisture run out. (There was water on the front edge of all the inner covers.) 3. I added a one inch thick styrofoam board under the outer cover. I broke about three inches (10 cm) off a corner of each foam piece for an upper entrance, and added a small wood scrap on top of the inner cover to (mostly) block wind blowing in this area. I put the scraps of the styrofoam and some straw between and behind the hives for more insulation, but didn't try to fill it in all the way. 4. In January, I have poured dry sugar in a ring around the inner cover hole. They have come up and taken down quite a bit of the sugar. I also fed them some honey I have saved for them. I have some pollen patties in the freezer from last year that I will also put on, as they definitely are raising brood. Given the light weights, I plan on feeding continuous until the dandelions come. (Does anyone else out there plant dandelions also? ;-) That is our spring buildup flower, but people fight to eradicate it from their lawns!) I'm open to all the bullets we got on the mites, (silver or otherwise!) and have followed this problem and potential solutions closely. It does sound like there are a few more options to try this year, at least! Seeing the price of packages and queens this year, I am glad for the survival so far. Good Luck to you all! Gerry and the other Visels at Visel7@juno.com Winnebago, Illinois, USA ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 1 Feb 1997 21:45:58 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Peter Wilson Subject: Brewing beer with honey In-Reply-To: <2.2.16.19970131182355.094f507c@srcmain.dfst.csiro.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII A popular hobby here in Canada is homebrewing beer from kits. These consist of a can of malt extract, yeast and instructions. Usually the instructions call for the addition of 2 kilos of sugar. However honey works very well and the finished beer is very palatable. I use an hydrometer to adjust the potential alcohol to my liking ( 5 - 6%) The best kits I have found are from Australia - Coopers. Their STOUT - a dark beer- is very good. Cheers Peter Wilson Edmonton, Canada email: pjwilson@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 2 Feb 1997 00:16:28 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Robert Watson Subject: Re: Brewing beer with honey In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Sat, 1 Feb 1997, Peter Wilson wrote: > A popular hobby here in Canada is homebrewing beer from kits............ > Usually the instructions call for the addition of 2 kilos of sugar. No! 1 kg or 1.5 is usual for added sugar. > However honey works very well and the finished beer is very palatable. Yes! Honey is better than sugar to add to beer kits. Malt extract, however, is better... [although mashing pale malt grains and adding the resulting liquid to a beer kit is far better].... > The best kits I have found are from Australia - Coopers. Again, I disagree...there are much nicer kit beers that Coopers.... Coopers was the first beer kit that I tried and I almost never did homebrewing again!!!! But I gave it another chance with a Brewmaker kit from the U.K. and decided to keep at it. > Their STOUT - a dark beer- is very good. The Coopers stout kit is O K ... it covers up the nastiness inherent int the other coopers products, because of its heavy flavour. BTW ...Use a strong flavoured honey for brewing or else just use sugar or malt...dont waste the honey if you aren't going to taste the final effect of the honey. Cheers, Rob ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 1 Feb 1997 22:39:27 -0800 Reply-To: leonc@ccinet.ab.ca Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "The L.& J. Christensens" Organization: Ikin Enterprises Ltd. Subject: Re: cleaning leather gloves MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Janet Montgomery & Dan Veilleux wrote: > > does anyone have any words of wisdom on cleaning propolis from leather > gloves without destroying them? > salad oil, solvent, handcream ???? > thanks > Dan Veilleux Columbus , Ohio USA > Janet Montgomery > 104 Fallis Road > Columbus, Ohio 43214-3724 > Home: (614) 784-8334 > FAX: (614) 268-3107 > E-mail: MONTVEIL@IWAYNET.NET If you have goatskin gloves, water works quite well. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 2 Feb 1997 07:40:22 -0500 Reply-To: James D Satterfield Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: James D Satterfield Subject: TBH Website Update MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII The tbh website that I initiated on January 17th continues to change. I have modified the FAQ's with links and anchors so that individual questions can be accessed directly. Jim Moore made this suggestion. Kevin Palm suggested that the FAQ's be put together for those who may wish to download them as a single document. I put them into two 40K files (the management file alone is about 40K) and have links to those files on the home page. I removed the html tags from these documents. A list of beekeeper's who keep tbh's has been started at the suggestion of John Thorp. The link is on the home page. If you keep tbh's, or know someone who does, and would like to be listed, send me the information you would like to have included. Joel Govostes continues to make major contributions to the web page. He has sent me a great deal of editing of the original FAQ's. I have incorporated his comments and changes, but he has also sent large blocks of text which were also added. For example, he has expanded the section on the catenary tbh. Joel anticipates adding photos of his apiary to the website. I'd like to see photos of his catenary hive...yeah! My thanks to Joel for all of his contributions. If you have information that you would like to include on the tbh web site, please get in contact with me. Meanwhile, drop by for a visit at: http://www.gsu.edu/~biojdsx/main.htm If you want to construct and try a tbh, there are excellent plans at the "original information" link. Red maple pollen is coming into my 16 tbh's out back, bees are flying well, and I'm once again being deluded into thinking that cold weather is gone for the year. 'Taint so...there'll be ice and perhaps snow yet to come for north Georgia, USA. Hope your 1997 will be good, that our southern hemisphere world neighbors are beginning to think about winter preparations, that honeybees will continue to give you as much enjoyment as they do me. Cordially yours, Jim ---------------------------------------------------------------- | James D. Satterfield | E-Mail: jsatt@gsu.edu | | 258 Ridge Pine Drive --------------------------------| | Canton, GA 30114, USA Canton is about 40 mi/64 km | | Telephone (770) 479-4784 north of Altanta, Georgia USA | | | | TBH Beekeeping Website: http://www.gsu.edu/~biojdsx/main.htm | ---------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 2 Feb 1997 08:49:03 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Tim Cote Subject: Re: Handling Syrup for Feed Comments: To: allend@internode.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Thanks Allen for that letter on syrup handling. My wife and I are just starting our expanded operation, leaping from 8 hobby hives to 58 side-liners by purchasing 50 packages. They're going to need to be fed bunches, I figure on 50 lbs of sugar each (2500 lbs total), and I'm trying to concoct some easy way to mix up all that white stuff. Before proceeding I thought I check with the group. 1. HFCS is attractive, but I'm clueless as to where to get it in these quantities. I live in Maryland. Anyone have any good sources? 2. Failing that, I'm told granulated sugar can be bought cheaply as floor sweepings from candy factories ($.10/lb vs $.34/lb store-bought). Again, I need to know where to get it. 3. My main hauling source is my Volvo wagon hooked up to a small trailer. It's rated to carry 2500 lbs, but without trailer brakes I feel comfortable hauling only about 1500 lbs. So the sugar source should be close or maybe deliver. 4. Ok, so now I've got the stuff here, and this is the real subject of my query: how to mix it. I'm getting visions of a small electric motor belt-reduced to an impeller mounted on angle iron and sitting on top of roughneck plastic trash buckets (which are bracketed onto the trailer for transport to the beeyards; a hose in the bottom for gravity-fed dispensing). Am I delusional? Has anyone ever had to do this before? Thanks in advance for the consult. Tim Cote MD I have a trailer beesbuzz@erols.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 2 Feb 1997 17:17:16 +0100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Karel Bokhorst Subject: Re: Bee propolis for kids Comments: To: bbirkey@interaccess.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ---------- > From: Barry Birkey > To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU > Subject: Re: Bee propolis for kids > Date: vrijdag 31 januari 1997 1:08 > > Jake G. Tsvilikhovskiy wrote: > > > Is it safe to give bee propolis ( capsuls ) to a 4-year old kid? > > > >In principal one can give propolis to children as well. The problem with propolis is that one can be allergic for propolis. There are two kinds of allergic reactions. Propolis on the skin can cause itching and in dutch it is called 'Imkers ekseem" translated it means 'beekeepers eczema" Im my view it is underestimated. 1 out of 2000 should be sensative to it. I do think that 1 out of 200 is nearer to the truth > Internal sensitivity is ,indeed, rare. Itching somewhere on the body and a feeling of unhapiness and nervousness is the result. One of the most sensative places is the inside of the pulse.one drop of a propolis solution placed there and you know wether you can use it or not. It depends on the contents of the capsule whether a child can use it. Personally I advise tablets of 30 mg 2 times daily or a propolis tincture( 10 drops of a 10% solution) To be safe give your child pollen :5-10 grams/day in the morning. Since pollen avtivate some people cannot get in sleep success Karel Bokhorst Dutch beekeeper > > ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 2 Feb 1997 13:19:32 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: MIDNITEBEE Subject: beeschools/beeswax/honey/bee clubs MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit http://www.cybertours.com/~midnitebee/ Greetings! I have added the above links to my web site(subject line).My gratitude to Mike & Linda for sending a comlpete list of bee clubs.I would like to add European,Asian African,etc. to the list.If you can help let me know.I tried to be as accurate as possible,please check for errors.Mail corrections and additions to midnitebee@cybertours.com.The weather in Maine,USA,is in the 20's(F).Sunny and there is snow on the ground.Checked bee hives yesterday and so far,doing well.Will feed sugar when temps get warmer. Midnitebee(Herb) ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 2 Feb 1997 12:48:35 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Peter Wilson Subject: Re: Brewing beer with honey In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII email: pjwilson@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca On Sun, 2 Feb 1997, Robert Watson wrote: > > No! 1 kg or 1.5 is usual for added sugar. Whoops!! Sorry about that. I should have paid more attention to the instructions. I think there is a marketing potential here for a special size pack specifically for the home brewer market. There are brew kit stores everywhere and special sugars ( dextrose) are sold at a premium to accommodate this market. As Rob pointed out , honey is better than sugar, I have never had a fermentation stop. Nor have I bothered boiling the honey . I figure that the enormous quantity of yeast cells that you add from the little sachet will out compete any of the wild yeasts. The fermentation is all over in 4 -5 days . Incidentely I use 2 litre PTFE soda pop bottles with new screw caps to bottle my beer. They each make a handy " six pack" plus I've found the yeast cells collect in the little indentations in the bottom and , most of the time, coagulate and do not turn the brew cloudy when the bottle is opened. I use white granulated sugar for the secondary fermentation - in the bottle to provide the fizz- perhaps the different sugars cause the yeast cells to coagulate - at any rate the product is more visually pleasing without the cloudiness. Cheers Peter Wilson Edmonton, Alberta ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 2 Feb 1997 15:17:30 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ian Watson Subject: Re: Surviving Varroa In-Reply-To: <199702020045.OAA14081@lehua.ilhawaii.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Sat, 1 Feb 1997, Walter Patton wrote: > Bee Healthy and God bless the United States Honey Bee What about the rest of them?.....;) @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ @ Ian Watson @ @ iwatson@freenet.npiec.on.ca @ @ @ @ THREE BEES: @ @ Bach singer ,/// @ @ Bee keeper >8'III}- @ @ Bell ringer ',\\\ @ @ @ @ 5 hives, 2 years in Beekeeping @ @ St. Catharines, Canada @ @ "I BEE, therefore I am" @ @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 2 Feb 1997 15:20:20 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ian Watson Subject: Re: Surviving Varroa In-Reply-To: <19970201.202116.3486.0.awneedham@juno.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Sat, 1 Feb 1997, Albert W Needham wrote: > On Sat, 1 Feb 1997 14:49:25 -1000 Walter Patton > writes: > > with our 78 degree partly cloudy weather here in Paradise. > > Walter: > > Aren't you currently getting a bit of smoke and hot stuff issuing up from > the > bowels of the earth out there in "Paradise"? Yes....And I'm glad he isnt gloating over the weather there...;) @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ @ Ian Watson @ @ iwatson@freenet.npiec.on.ca @ @ @ @ THREE BEES: @ @ Bach singer ,/// @ @ Bee keeper >8'III}- @ @ Bell ringer ',\\\ @ @ @ @ 5 hives, 2 years in Beekeeping @ @ St. Catharines, Canada @ @ "I BEE, therefore I am" @ @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 2 Feb 1997 16:42:38 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: KEN LAWRENCE Subject: Missing Months MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I have been putting my GLEANINGS in BEE CULTURE magazines in hardback binders and found a few missing. Anybody out there in beeland that might have a extra copy for Apr.-1966, Jan.-1967, Aug.-1963, Nov.-1960, or Jan. Feb. Mar. Apr. May-1958. I would be tickled to find these lost ones. Thanks for any help. Ken Lawrence ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Feb 1997 11:18:51 +1000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Chris Allen Subject: Re: Surviving Varroa Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >> For any claim in tolerance, I would like to see evidence that there are no mites in the hive. >Consider Apis cerana. They have varroa living in their hive and yet >survive. The mite has not been wiped out there. I think this is the >best we can ever hope for with Apis m. Varroa is the natural pathogen for a. cerana. This type of bee is common through out Asia including Sri Lanka. A beekeeper from Sri Lanka once explained to me how a. cerana has learn to tolerate the mites. As I understand it, Varroa is not a serious problem for these bees because they have learnt to tolerate them by grooming. The mites like to ride piggy back on the adult bees. This is how they spread themselves around. The bees don't particularly like this and can wipe them off. Their legs have evolved so that every part of the body can be reached by at least one leg. When adults feel a mite jump aboard for a ride, they simply brush it off. Presumably this happens outside the colony before the mite has hitched its ride back to the colony. Thus the mite population does not have the opportunity build up within the colony. As a fail safe solution, a. cerana will abscond from the old hive when things get tough. If the mites get to heavy to handle, all the adults leave and leave behind the heavily infested brood. Theocratically, Apis m. might also evolve to groom the mites off. Just give them a few million years and they'll be alright. Regards Chris Allen ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 2 Feb 1997 19:25:00 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ian Watson Subject: Herbs as Honey plants? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Hi all... My brother Robert (who is also on the list) knows someone who has a herb farm and we may be able to put some hives there...Anyone know if any herbs are reasonable nectar producers? I checked "The Hive and the Honey Bee" but all I could see was Sage which may or may not be the herb.... Any comments would be appreciated. Thanks, Ian @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ @ Ian Watson @ @ iwatson@freenet.npiec.on.ca @ @ @ @ THREE BEES: @ @ Bach singer ,/// @ @ Bee keeper >8'III}- @ @ Bell ringer ',\\\ @ @ @ @ 5 hives, 2 years in Beekeeping @ @ St. Catharines, Canada @ @ "I BEE, therefore I am" @ @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Feb 1997 10:28:16 +0800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Nik Mohamed Abdulmajid Subject: Re: Uganda move - dark honey In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Fri, 31 Jan 1997, Joel W. Govostes wrote: > > I suppose that the Uganda honey might be similar to this stuff. Honey > lovers might actually find it very enjoyable, but in USA it wouldn't be > considered "table honey." But then, what do we know. > I would be very grateful if anybody can list the properties of the "Table Honey" or honey that is considered as table grade. Nik. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Feb 1997 14:29:08 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Dung Nguyen Subject: Re: Surviving Varroa >Varroa is the natural pathogen for a. cerana. This type of bee is common >through out Asia including Sri Lanka. A beekeeper from Sri Lanka once >explained to me how a. cerana has learn to tolerate the mites. > >As I understand it, Varroa is not a serious problem for these bees because >they have learnt to tolerate them by grooming. > Hello everyone, Varroa is also a big problem in Vietnam beekeeping too as A.mellifera has been being kept . However, that mites are not the matter for A.cerana in the country because of failure of those mites in eastern worker bees. I did some exp. on the reproduction of the mite some years ago and found that the mites cannot reproduce in A.cerana worker cells while they still produce in the high rate in A.cerana drone cells and A.mellifera cells. There is a note that the experimental mites were used from A.cerana colonies themself , not from A.mellifera colonies. Therefore, during the time that A.cerana colonies do not rear drone, A.cerana bees can escape naturally from the mite disasters. I hope I can communicate with you. Sorry for my very poor English. Regards Nguyen VanDung email: nguyen@hotel.uws.edu.au ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Feb 1997 02:06:09 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "" Subject: Re: Brother Adam Video The video, The Monk and the Honey Bee, 1988, 90 minutes, produced by the BBE by York Films of England is distributed in the US by Bullfrog films. Wicwas Press has copies for sale for $40 plus $2.50 postage. Here is some promo info -- "Enchanting story of Brother Adam, who from his monastic cell at Buckfast Abbey, Devon, England, directed and incredible global bee-breeding erterprise. Filmed in the Buckfast apiaries, the German Alps, Sweden and the mountains of Tanzania. Combines biography and adventure with science and natural history." Wicwas Press LLC PO Box 817 Cheshire CT 0610 USA 203 250 7575 Visa, Mastercard, check, and money order accepted. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Feb 1997 20:18:01 +1100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Nick Wallingford Subject: Sugar feeding article MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT I've scanned the 3 pages of the article on feeding sugar to hives and placed it on my pages as: http://www.wave.co.nz/pages/nickw/biblio11.htm I hope it can be read OK! (\ Nick Wallingford {|||8- home nickw@wave.co.nz (/ work nw1@boppoly.ac.nz NZ Beekeeping http://www.wave.co.nz/pages/nickw/nzbkpg.htm ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Feb 1997 09:39:28 +0000 Reply-To: Janko.Bozic@uni-lj.si Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Janko Bozic Subject: Beehouse or Beeyard in Botanical garden MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Dear Bee-Liners, I'd like to get any info about beehouse or beeyard in botanical garden. My department and Beekeeping association have a plans to build a beehouse (app. 15m X 6m, 40 colonies) in our new botanical garden. Most likely we will have to convince city and state authorities that such building and activity fits well with the structure and function of botanical gardens. We would like to show them examples from all around the world. Please, send me any info on such examples. With regards, Janko ==================================================================== Dr. Janko Bozic University of Ljubljana Biotechnical Faculty, Department of Biology Vecna pot 111, p.p. 2995 1001 Ljubljana SLOVENIA tel. (386) 61-265-584, (386) 61-265-585 fax. (386) 61-273-390 e-mail: janko.bozic@uni-lj.si ==================================================================== SLOVENIA - Homeland of Carniolan Bee ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 29 Jan 1997 21:37:32 +0000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Capt Ken Black Subject: FOR UK LIST MEMBERS Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hi All, I am trying to get a local bee breeding group going around the north Oxfordshire area, I have corresponded with some Bee-L members in the past about acquiring good Apis MM breeding stock. This year I am having some success I have arranged with BIBBA to provide me with grafts from this years breeders. If anyone wishes to join me(the nearer to N Oxon the better)they would be most welcome. I will be hopefully rearing up to 30 BIBBA queens from May 97 but I will also be continuing in my local work. With this in mind does anyone have any good quality Apis MM (Black Bee) colonies in their apiaries. I am looking for quiet, non following, non running bees, non swarming, preferably superseding type. Ideally with a compact brood nest (one brood lift national type) and producing a good surplus over a 5 year period. I am willing to travel anywhere to collect grafting material from end Apr onwards. Is that bee out there? Ken Black Bay Tree Cottage 76 East St, Fritwell '\ /` Bicester, ()() Oxfordshire, England. OX6 9QF \/ 00441869345725 Fax:00441869256678 email: kblack.lisa.mod@gtnet.gov.uk ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Feb 1997 23:17:35 +1300 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Peter Bray Subject: Re: Herbs as Honey plants? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >My brother Robert (who is also on the list) knows someone who has a herb >farm and we may be able to put some hives there...Anyone know if any herbs >are reasonable nectar producers? I checked "The Hive and the Honey Bee" >but all I could see was Sage which may or may not be the herb.... Thyme (Thymus vulgaris) grows wild in parts of New Zealand's central South Island and produces a crop of good quality thyme honey each Spring. The honey is dark (around 100mm) and *very* stong with a long lasting after taste. One story goes that the plant was introduced by Chinese gold miners last century. It has now spread to cover thousands of hectares. As in most cases of nectar production, it requires relatively large areas of any one plant to produce a monofloral honey type. Peter Bray, Airborne Honey Ltd., PO Box 28, Leeston, New Zealand Fax 64-3-324-3236, Phone 64-3-324-3569 p.bray@netaccess.co.nz ---------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Feb 1997 05:54:21 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: James Morton <106074.517@compuserve.com> Subject: Re: cleaning leather gloves Comments: To: "INTERNET:leonc@ccinet.ab.ca" Message text written by INTERNET:leonc@ccinet.ab.ca >Janet Montgomery & Dan Veilleux wrote: > > does anyone have any words of wisdom on cleaning propolis from leather > gloves without destroying them? > salad oil, solvent, handcream ???? > thanks< You could try using a strong aqueous solution of washing soda (sodium carbonate). This is extremely effective at removing propolis as it causes it to become soluble in water. You can also use it in the washing machine to clean bee suits etc. James Morton London, UK ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Feb 1997 09:32:04 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Steven A. Creasy" Subject: Re: Brother Adam Video Brushy Mountain Bee Farm has *The Monk and the Honeybee* Video for $29.95 (US) plus shipping. 1-800-233-7929 FAX - 1-910-921-2681. Their mailing address is: Brushy Mountian Bee Farm 610 Bethany Church Rd. Moravian Falls, NC 28654 USA This price comes from the 1996 Catalog. Steve Creasy- (\ Maryville, Tennessee USA {|||8- Proverbs 24:13,25:16 (/ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Feb 1997 08:52:00 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Joel W. Govostes" Subject: Re: Table grade honey - whatzit? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >I would be very grateful if anybody can list the properties of the "Table >Honey" or honey that is considered as table grade. > >Nik. I'm not sure, but can offer the following observations: Goldenrod (/aster) honey as we in the northeastern USA often obtain from autumn flowers is NOT considered "table grade." Yet I have been meeting customers for many years who would have nothing else on their table! I recall many elderly folks back in New England who had a real penchant for the amber autumn honey, and there are still some here and there who want buckwheat and nothing else! So it really depends. It's curious that beekeepers always seem to prize the light-hued honeys. (After all, they obtain the best price per pound, usually.) But if you ask honey users, you may be surprised to find out that they really prefer the darker stuff. They seem to figure out that often, it has the robust flavors they love. I even know experienced beekeepers in this area who will blend some of the amber or reddish honeys with the coveted "light amber" or "white" crop, just to make it more attractive to the customers! At the same time other beekeepers moan about never having enough light honey... Maybe it isn't always more valuble after all. In any case, it IS interesting to note that, very often, once customers try the local honey, of whatever variety, they never go back to the grocery stores' "clover" honey. For them, it is far too bland! J. Govostes Freeville, NY USA ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 1 Feb 1997 10:10:19 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Garrett Dodds Subject: vorroa resistance (tolerance) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" The bee list has been very interesting lately with all the talk about surviving vorroa. It seems to me that the one thing we can agree on is that no one knows the answer on how to breed for vorroa tolerance (I find it hard to believe we will ever get resistance). We need a bee that is capable of keeping vorroa under control and still produce a large crop of honey ( and all the other traits we like too). One thing that is probable good is that everyone that is working on this problem is going about it in a different way. Minnesota and Ohio State are looking at Hygienic Behavior, Michigan is looking at zero mite population growth, there is even a small group of beekeepers that are leaving their colonies untreated for mites and breeding from the survivors, plus many more all over the world that I haven't even heard of yet. I would be interested in hearing how other people are looking at this problem? I remember reading a question or a statement about the vorroa mites always being one step ahead of the honey bees. This is true their generation time is much shorter than the honey bees. Because of this they can adapt to changes faster than honey bees can. If we breed a bee that attacks and kills the mites, they can adapt and change by being faster, smaller, thiner or any other way that can help them. The same is true for any mechanism we find in the bees, the mites can find a way around it probably only in a few years. This means we need to keep the selection pressure on the honey bees so they can keep up, and use modern methods of stock improvement (like the other livestock industries). There is not going to be a silver bullet. The work of getting vorroa tolerant bees and keeping them that way will be on going until the end of time or beekeeping itself. I think everyone has made many good points on this subject, and I hope you keep it up. Garrett ************************* Garrett Dodds Instrumental Insemination Services Custom Inseminations 29480 January Road West Mansfield, OH 43358 (937) 355-0290 dodds.12@osu.edu *********************** * Garrett Dodds * * 29480 January Road * * West Mansfield, OH 43358 * * (937) 355-0290 * * e-mail dodds.12@osu.edu * *--------------------------* * Custom Inseminations * ******************** ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 1 Feb 1997 02:38:26 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: frankay@MAIL.NETSHOP.NET Subject: Re: Help Wanted Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >I'm posting this for a friend who is looking for experienced help for the >1997 season. > >Northeast Alberta. >Room & Board provided if needed. >Sallary based on experience > >Send resume to: > >Dave Tharle >Box 80 >Ardmore, Alberta, Canada >T0A 0B0 > >fax: 403-826-6013 perhaps Dave would consider advertising his need for help in Hivelights? Fran Kay, Editor frankay@mail.netshop.net ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Feb 1997 08:13:26 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: WILLIAM G LORD Subject: Re: Handling Syrup for Feed In-Reply-To: Tim Cote "Re: Handling Syrup for Feed" (Feb 2, 8:49am) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Tim, John Ianuzzi (sp?) says he buys floor sweeping sugar somewhere close to MD. Contact him. For a good pump, go to a local ag supply store and get a pump set up for the small, 35 to 50 gal sprayers landscapers use. It will be 12 volt and will pump diluted syrup just fine, and the pumps are usually plumbed for 5/8 or 1/2 inch garden hoses. I have one that pumps a gallon in about 40 seconds, and I like it. Southern States carries them, as do discount ag suppliers. I have one attached to an open top 55 gallon drum, into which I mix liquid sucrose and cut with water in the spring. It works like a charm, saves time and there is no mess with feeding. Bill Lord On Feb 2, 8:49am, Tim Cote wrote: > Subject: Re: Handling Syrup for Feed > Thanks Allen for that letter on syrup handling. My wife and I are just > starting our expanded operation, leaping from 8 hobby hives to 58 > side-liners by purchasing 50 packages. They're going to need to be fed > bunches, I figure on 50 lbs of sugar each (2500 lbs total), and I'm trying > to concoct some easy way to mix up all that white stuff. Before proceeding I > thought I check with the group. > > 1. HFCS is attractive, but I'm clueless as to where to get it in these > quantities. I live in Maryland. Anyone have any good sources? > > 2. Failing that, I'm told granulated sugar can be bought cheaply as floor > sweepings from candy factories ($.10/lb vs $.34/lb store-bought). Again, I need > to know where to get it. > > 3. My main hauling source is my Volvo wagon hooked up to a small trailer. > It's rated to carry 2500 lbs, but without trailer brakes I feel comfortable > hauling only about 1500 lbs. So the sugar source should be close or maybe > deliver. > > 4. Ok, so now I've got the stuff here, and this is the real subject of my > query: how to mix it. I'm getting visions of a small electric motor > belt-reduced to an impeller mounted on angle iron and sitting on top of > roughneck plastic trash buckets (which are bracketed onto the trailer for > transport to the beeyards; a hose in the bottom for gravity-fed dispensing). Am > I delusional? Has anyone ever had to do this before? > > Thanks in advance for the consult. > > Tim Cote MD > > I have a trailer > > beesbuzz@erols.com >-- End of excerpt from Tim Cote -- william g lord E-Mail : wglord@franklin Internet: wglord@franklin.ces.ncsu.edu Phone : 9194963344 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Feb 1997 10:07:23 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: aarcher Subject: Nectar and Pollen Plants NM. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Could someone on the list point me in the direction of information re: nectar and pollen producing plants in SW New Mexico. (Silver City area). Extension agents (and others in the know supposedly) keep telling me mesquite (for nectar), but I'm at 5,400 ft and I haven't seen a mesquite within 20 miles of my cabin.. I am on the Gila River in the Gila National Forest north of Silver City.. What about approx. dates of any major/minor honeyflows from this region?...Thanks in advance...New to list and to beekeeping..... ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Feb 1997 12:20:18 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: James Amrine Subject: Re: Herbs as Honey plants? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 11:17 PM 2/3/97 +1300, you wrote: >>My brother Robert (who is also on the list) knows someone who has a herb >>farm and we may be able to put some hives there...Anyone know if any herbs >>are reasonable nectar producers? I checked "The Hive and the Honey Bee" >>but all I could see was Sage which may or may not be the herb.... > >Thyme (Thymus vulgaris) grows wild in parts of New Zealand's central South >Island and produces a crop of good quality thyme honey each Spring. The >honey is dark (around 100mm) and *very* stong with a long lasting after taste. > >One story goes that the plant was introduced by Chinese gold miners last >century. It has now spread to cover thousands of hectares. As in most >cases of nectar production, it requires relatively large areas of any one >plant to produce a monofloral honey type. >Peter Bray, >Airborne Honey Ltd., PO Box 28, Leeston, New Zealand >Fax 64-3-324-3236, Phone 64-3-324-3569 p.bray@netaccess.co.nz >---------------------------------------------------------------- Dear Beeliners, Sorry for the errant post--I hit the wrong button. Regarding herbs as honey plants, many mints--like thyme--are herbs. Many of them make exellent floral sources for honey bees and their nectar contains essential oils--as indicated by the "very strong, long lasting after taste" by Peter Bray. Other herbs that are not mints are also excellent honey plants and may be a source of essential oils that may possibly, adversely affect varroa mites. Sincerely, Prof. Jim Amrine Division of Plant & Soil Sciences P. O. Box 6108, West Virginia University Morgantown, WV 26506-6108 <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> <> Telephone: 304-293-6023 <> <> Fax: 304-293-2960 <> <> web: http://www.wvu.edu/~agexten/varroa.htm <> <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Feb 1997 09:22:34 -0800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Paul van Westendorp of AGF 576-3737 Fax: 576-3730" Subject: Re: BEE-L Digest - 30 Jan 1997 to 31 Jan 1997 In-Reply-To: <01IEVKQ7FPFMBMH1LZ@saturn.gov.bc.ca> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Re. Uganda honey The honey from Baringo, Kenya is most likely acacia. I visited Lake Baringo and its surrounding area which is dry plateau country of eastern Africa where the predominant vegetation is the thorny acacia tree. For most of the year, there is very little else in blooming cover vegetation. This is made worse by browsing cattle, especially goats that remove virtually everything up to a height of 2 meters. In Baringo and other sites in east Africa, the hives are either the KTB (Kenyan Top Bar) or traditional log hives. Because of predators especially ants, all hives are suspended in (acacia) trees, where the ropes or steel wires are heavily greased. There are over 30 different species of acacia in East Africa and most produce amber to dark amber honeys that have a pleasant aroma and taste. Granulation is extremely slow; the jar in front of me contains liquid that I harvested in Uganda 10 years ago. Since no frames are used, all honey is harvested by comb pressing and honey straining. The various steps of handling under often primitive conditions pose the greatest threat to the quality of honey. I believe east Africa could produce superbly fine honeys if it overcomes problems in harvesting, processing and marketing. Paul van Westendorp pvanwesten@galaxy.gov.bc.ca Provincial Apiarist British Columbia ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Feb 1997 12:58:01 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Tim Kelsey Subject: Re: Brewing Mead Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" For those of you interested in making mead, there is a listserv called the Mead Lovers Digest that focuses on mead making and appreciation. >Use mead-request@talisman.com for [un]subscribe/admin requests. When > subscribing, please include name and email address in body of message. >Send ONLY articles for the digest to mead@talisman.com. >Digest archives and FAQ are available for anonymous ftp at ftp.stanford.edu > in pub/clubs/homebrew/mead. >NOTE: The digest only appears when there is enough material to send one. Tim Timothy W. Kelsey Dept of Agricultural Economics tkelsey@psu.edu & Rural Sociology (814) 865-9542 Penn State University http://www.aers.psu.edu/f/kelsey.htm ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Feb 1997 16:32:29 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Bill Mares Subject: pesticides Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain My five hives are about to be surrounded by an 18-hole golf course. Should I move them for fear of pesticide/herbicide applications? Any advice or experience is welcome. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Feb 1997 19:54:51 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Gerry Visel Subject: Re: Herbs as Honey plants? Peter, How is honey "darkness" measured (in units of mm???) Gerry and the other Visels at Visel7@juno.com Winnebago, Illinois, USA On Mon, 3 Feb 1997 23:17:35 +1300 Peter Bray writes: >Thyme (Thymus vulgaris) grows wild in parts of New Zealand's central South >Island and produces a crop of good quality thyme honey each Spring. The >honey is dark (around 100mm) and *very* stong with a long lasting >after taste. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Feb 1997 20:15:51 -0800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Vince Coppola Subject: Re: Table grade honey - whatzit? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Joel W. Govostes wrote: > It's curious that beekeepers always seem to prize the light-hued honeys. > (After all, they obtain the best price per pound, usually.) > In any case, it IS interesting to note that, very often, once customers try > the local honey, of whatever variety, they never go back to the grocery > stores' "clover" honey. For them, it is far too bland! I think that rating honey quality by only by color has had a negative affect on the marketing and consumption of honey. Of coure, if you are making a big crop of white honey, its not a problem at all. A large part of the problem is the honey industry itself. Just look at the way we "judge" honey". A bunch of hicks stand around in coveralls and stare at jars of honey. If it is clear and the jar has no flaw, you win. Compare this to the way wine is judged. Its just another ag product, but by the time it gets to the consumer- magic. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Feb 1997 22:47:51 -0600 Reply-To: bbirkey@interaccess.com Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Barry Birkey Organization: www.Birkey.Com Subject: Re: Table grade honey - whatzit? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Vince Coppola wrote: > Just look at > the way we "judge" honey". A bunch of hicks stand around in coveralls > and stare at jars of honey. If it is clear and the jar has no flaw, you > win. Compare this to the way wine is judged. Its just another ag > product, but by the time it gets to the consumer- magic. That's right Vince, I think they ought to grab a handful of John/Jane Doe bystanders and let them decide which honey they would judge as "best." Last year I sold a gallon of my light summer honey to a lady that I thought was my best honey. This year when she came back for a refill, she said she wanted honey that was "thicker." I tried to explain to her that the honey I have this year isn't exactly the same tasting or consistency as last years. So I offered her a choice. Light summer honey again or some that I had mixed summer and fall and it definitely leaned to the stronger flavored fall honey. She tasted the mixed honey and said that was what she wanted. I might add that the fall honey was considerably thicker in consistency so I'm sure she was also happy to have the "thicker" honey. Probably closer to what she had had in the past so in her mind that's the way honey should be. I think the saying, "the customer is always right" holds alot of truth too when it comes to judging honey. The condition of bees here are very similar to Jerry's report. Looked in the top on all hives and saw healthy bee activity and little moisture. I did nothing different to the hives to "winterize" them. I had one hive jump the gun a bit the other day when the sun finally stayed out for most of the day and must have warmed them up just enough to get them to fly out but there was still a snow cover and almost all the ones venturing out hit the ground and within seconds couldn't make it back into flight and parished. Only one hive did this. -Barry -- Barry Birkey West Chicago, Illinois USA bbirkey@interaccess.com http://www.birkey.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 4 Feb 1997 08:56:48 +0000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Alyn W. Ashworth" Subject: Re: Beehouse or Beeyard in Botanical garden Comments: To: Janko.Bozic@uni-lj.si In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 In message , Janko Bozic writes >Dear Bee-Liners, > > I'd like to get any info about beehouse or beeyard in botanical >garden.Most likely we will have to convince city and state >authorities that such building and activity fits well with the >structure and function of botanical gardens. When we had to move our six hives out of our back garden last year, we looked round for a suitable site, and remembered that we had seen a talk by a charity called LandLife, who grow wild flowers and distribute the seeds. We approached them to ask if they knew of any suitable sights, and they were very, very keen to have our hives right next to their nurseries. It seems an ideal arrangement now, and we look forward to seeing what improvements in seed production result. The nurseries are in a medium-sized, local public park, in an old walled garden. The park is surrounded by, predominently, houses, with some small patches of woodland. All the best in your endeavours. -- Alyn W. Ashworth Lancashire & North-West Bee-Keepers' Association. UK. (but I don't speak on their bee-half) http://www.demon.co.uk/emphasys ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 4 Feb 1997 23:33:47 +1300 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Peter Bray Subject: Re: Herbs as Honey plants? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 07:54 PM 2/3/97 EST, Gerry Visel wrote: >Peter, > > How is honey "darkness" measured (in units of mm???) > Colour of honey is measured on the Pfund Scale using a Pfund Grader manufactured by Kohler in the USA. It has been used for honey since the 1920s. A measurement of 0 mm = colourless (or nearly so) and 140mm is black. Honey is placed in a glass wedge shaped trough and compared with a calibrated honey coloured glass wedge against a backlight. The reading is taken where the two intersect with the same colour. The "mm" refers to millimetres, the scale is basically a metric ruler and the reading is the number of millimetres the pointer moves along the scale. Sample preparation is *Very* important in achieving consistent results. Peter Bray, Airborne Honey Ltd., PO Box 28, Leeston, New Zealand Fax 64-3-324-3236, Phone 64-3-324-3569 p.bray@netaccess.co.nz ---------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Feb 1997 22:39:00 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Bently Durant Subject: Re: pesticides MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ---------- > From: Bill Mares > To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU > Subject: pesticides > Date: Monday, February 03, 1997 3:32 PM > > My five hives are about to be surrounded by an > 18-hole golf course. Should I move them for > fear of pesticide/herbicide applications? Any advice or experience > is welcome. >From my experiance bees do not like to play golf, but I just started keeping bees >this year. I am not shure of the how galf corses are managed but if they are in the middle of one and at risk of harming golfers ( who do like to play golf ) I would move them. Another tip is to move them very far ( sevral miles ) away. around christmass we were having new phone lines installed. My bee hive was in the way so I moved it in a little clover grove across the street figuring that since it was my only hive they would find there way home. Many did, but many didn't and I had a major loss in the hive when the weather got cold that night. so I hope I was of some help. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Feb 1997 22:47:02 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Bently Durant Subject: Re: Nectar and Pollen Plants NM. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ---------- > From: aarcher > To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU > Subject: Nectar and Pollen Plants NM. > Date: Monday, February 03, 1997 11:07 AM > > Could someone on the list point me in the direction of information re: > nectar and pollen producing plants in SW New Mexico. (Silver City area). > Extension agents (and others in the know supposedly) keep telling me > mesquite (for nectar), but I'm at 5,400 ft and I haven't seen a mesquite > within 20 miles of my cabin.. I am on the Gila River in the Gila National > Forest north of Silver City.. What about approx. dates of any major/minor > honeyflows from this region?...Thanks in advance...New to list and to > beekeeping..... I need to know about mesquite too. I have my have situated right accross from a field that is being taken over by the misquite. anyone have some exact dates for mesquite honeyflows around dallas texas??? The only thing I can think of is the trees in the forest. There is bound to be some evergreens. I think cedar ( I need to know about evergreens too )a honey flow ( probly real late in the year ). All trees must have a way to cross polinate so just use your knowlage of trees and figure out how it polinates itself. Also keep a watchful eye for almonds ( if they grow there ) ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 4 Feb 1997 11:18:53 -0800 Reply-To: vcoppola@epix.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Vince Coppola Subject: Re: Herbs as Honey plants? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Gerry Visel wrote: > > Peter, > > How is honey "darkness" measured (in units of mm???) >An optical device compares the light that passes through the honey sample to a >standard scale. The sample is moved along a scale that is calibrated in mms. When >the honey and the standard pass the same light, the scale indicates the grade. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 4 Feb 1997 08:33:08 -0800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Roy Nettlebeck Subject: Re: Table grade honey - whatzit? Comments: To: Barry Birkey In-Reply-To: <32F6BF77.3101@interaccess.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Mon, 3 Feb 1997, Barry Birkey wrote: > Vince Coppola wrote: > > > Just look at > > the way we "judge" honey". A bunch of hicks stand around in coveralls > > and stare at jars of honey. If it is clear and the jar has no flaw, you > > win. Compare this to the way wine is judged. Its just another ag > > product, but by the time it gets to the consumer- magic. > > That's right Vince, I think they ought to grab a handful of John/Jane Doe > bystanders and let them decide which honey they would judge as "best." > I think the saying, "the customer is always right" holds alot of truth too when > it comes to judging honey. Hi Vince and Barry + All, I do think the customer is the real judge.The problem is each one is a little different. I had some dark honey that I thought I would wholesale out. I took some to the Farmers market and sold 2 cases in 2 hours. Whitin 2 weeks it was all sold and had people begging for more. So I have to go along with ( the customer is always right ). > The condition of bees here are very similar to Jerry's report. Looked in the top > on all hives and saw healthy bee activity and little moisture. I did nothing > different to the hives to "winterize" them. We had sun in western Washington State yesterday and my bees were flying. They were bringing in some pollen. I uncovered a few annd they look great.I will be doing splits and feeding. I did cover all of my hives with 1 or 2 inches of insulation plus a board with some baffles on it to help get the moisture out.It did get the moisture out of the bees but not out of the board. I have to go back to the drawing board with that one. The Bees do look great and now we will see if the build up is any different with the hives treated with pepermint oil and apistan. My one untreated hive is full of bees , but they are a little too aggressive for me. I will breed from the hive. Best Regards Roy ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 4 Feb 1997 11:48:38 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ted Wout <102336.711@CompuServe.COM> Subject: Nectar and Pollen Plants NM. Bently Durant wrote: >I need to know about mesquite too. I have my have situated right across from a >field that is being taken over by the mesquite. >anyone have some exact dates for mesquite honeyflows around Dallas Texas??? I keep bees in the Dallas area and have land close to Corsicana where I keep most of my hives. There are huge fields of Mesquite around my hives and my bees made much honey from them the second half of last summer. Mesquite will "bloom" several times a year, it is indeterminate. Apparently Mesquite will produce nectar in proportion to the amount of water it receives. Last year we had a terrible drought the first half of the year. I have a stock tank that was bone dry for that time. July and August were the wettest months of the year last year. They are normally the hottest and driest months of the year. My stock tank was brimming full by the end of July. You can tell when