Subject: File: "BEE-L LOG9702C" To: "W. Allen Dick" Resent-From: Resent-Date: Wed, 12 Mar 97 19:00:11 EST Resent-To: allend@mail1.internode.net Message-Id: <02044663006959@systronix.net> ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 15 Feb 1997 00:32:21 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Harry Sweet Subject: Re: Plastic Foundation In a message dated 97-02-14 08:17:22 EST, you write: << In respect to plastic foundation....If I recall correctly, in prior discussions on BEE-L about plastic foundation, I believe that someone said that bees will not rebuild foundation on plastic that has been scrapped "clean"! Anyone recall that statement? >> Duragilt gets "dewaxed" by the bees ( usually on one side) and they can't (don't) rebuild on it , I don't recommend it's use. Plasticell (snap-in-foundation) when dewaxed is not liked much by the bees. Wax can be reapplied with a brush. Keep the wax below 175F or the plastic will warp. BTW I use plasticell exclusively in my broods & western supers. I'm not worried about honey production, I get more than I know what to do with. Harry Sweet N. California ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 15 Feb 1997 01:45:52 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jack & Susan Griffes Subject: Duragilt and Pierco MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >From personal experience - not conjecture - I can assure you that if the bees strip the wax off one patch or one side or one whole sheet of Duragilt they will never in a million years rebuild the comb CORRECTLY on that frame UNTIL you replace the foundation. This is due to the fact that the midrib in Duragilt is just a shiny sheet of plastic with no cell imprint in it. In 9 frame units (10 frame boxes) the bees will build comb that is one bee space off the midrib if they have taken the wax off the midrib. If Duragilt is given only during a flow or while feeding the bees very little if any of this wax stripping will occur and you will get good comb. When the bees are unable to draw comb because no nectar is coming in then they mine the wax off comb not in use and use it where they need it for cappings and repair work. With Pierco the cell imprint is in the plastic midrib - they sell unwaxed Pierco as well as waxed (not every bee supply house lists the unwaxed but it is available). The bees draw the unwaxed just dandy. They also will redraw entire frames if you scrape them down. The bees readily work Pierco frames and the queens do indeed love to lay in them. Nothing is perfect but we like Pierco frames well enough to be gradually switching over to them. We will always have to maintain some old wood and wax frames due to HYG testing. That is unless someone can come up with a accurate HYG test that does not involved cutting out samples of brood - possibly freezing them on the comb as Dr. Spivak has done (but so far it takes 30 minutes which is not fast enough to be truly practical in the field). Please don't come back with the Pin Prick method - it is a dead giveaway that there is a problem when haemolymph is exposed and you have to check back in 6 hours if you stand any chance of finding highly HYG colonies using the Pin Prick method. Jack Griffes Country Jack's Honeybee Farm Horseshoeing by Jack Griffes Ottawa Lake, MI 49267 USA e-mail Griffes@ix.netcom.com Web page http://www2.netcom.com/~griffes/ ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 15 Feb 1997 02:04:47 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jack & Susan Griffes Subject: 9 OR 10 frame MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >Bee-listers: > >I can't remember if this topic has been discussed on this list: > >Which is more advantageous in the brood chamber - 10 frames or 9 frames? > >I know the answer for supers: frames easier to uncap and less weight in >the super. > >BTW I'm a chiropractor by profession so I recommend proper lifting >proceedures to my beekeeper patients to prevent low back problems. > >Paul Cronshaw DC >Cyberchiro & Hobby Beekeeper >Santa Barbara, CA Paul, There are people who would argue on both sides. We prefer to run 10 in the 10 frame brood chambers. When you run nine in a 10 frame brood chamber the bees make a terrible mess of the comb because they have extra space to play with. In supers this extra space gets taken care of by building thicker comb - but in the brood nest the brood comb itself will only be just so thick. So if you like nice pretty and straight combs with no brace comb between them then I would advise using 10 frames in your 10 frame brood boxes. Jack Griffes Country Jack's Honeybee Farm Horseshoeing by Jack Griffes Ottawa Lake, MI 49267 USA e-mail Griffes@ix.netcom.com Web page http://www2.netcom.com/~griffes/ ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 15 Feb 1997 02:28:38 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jack & Susan Griffes Subject: Dan Jones - timing of packages MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dan Jones of SW Pennsylvania writes > "already booked > till mid May. I have been told that I need to get the bees > in the hives in mid April. > > Is there any place else I should try? Should I just wait til > May and start then?" "A swarm in May is worth a load of hay. A swarm in June is worth a silver spoon. A swarm in July isn't worth a fly." It would be far far far better to get your packages in early to mid April - and if you are starting them on foundation be certain to feed them until they get that comb drawn or just give up on taking the feed because nectar is so plentiful. Of course you must stop feeding before putting on undrawn (or drawn) supers for honey storage. I would call around a bit more and see if someone has packages available - maybe they don't. The past few years have seen horrific losses across the country and now with honey prices up you can bet some old equipment is going to be getting filled with bees this Spring. Thus demand was high very early - also when the honey price passes a certain point the package producers divert more colonies into the far less labor intensive pursuit of honey production. Another option is to purchase good healthy nucs. Emphasis on HEALTHY and STRONG (is what good means). Get with your local, regional or state bee club to see who has a reputation of selling good nucs in your area. Also many times a commercial beekeeper will buy extra packages to sell to those that need only a few. He can cover part of the transport cost that way and if he has the space on the truck it is worth it to do that. You can find that out through the clubs as well. Nucs are about one full month ahead of packages from the get go. Thus a package installed on 1 April is roughly equivalent to a four frame nuc installed on 1 May. In the nucs the queen is already accepted and is already laying - she likely has her own bees emerging and is past the stage of early supersedure (the 3 frame syndrome) as well. If you are getting the impression I would go with good HEALTHY nucs you are right on target. Jack Griffes Country Jack's Honeybee Farm Horseshoeing by Jack Griffes Ottawa Lake, MI 49267 USA e-mail Griffes@ix.netcom.com Web page http://www2.netcom.com/~griffes/ ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 15 Feb 1997 05:19:17 PST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Dennis and Marian Subject: HYG (haemolymph?) In-Reply-To: <199702150639.AAA00579@dfw-ix5.ix.netcom.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; X-MAPIextension=".TXT" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable In a posting by Jack and Susan Griffes (Re: Duragilt and Pierco), from = Michigan, inspection for this (apparent) desease was mentioned. Forgive = my ignorance, but what is it? Dennis Morefield Bees-N-Honey denmar@mind.net ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 15 Feb 1997 16:36:47 +0200 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Mahmoud H. Kamel...." Subject: Help on a new subject Comments: To: Ohio State , APIS-L@NERVM.NERDC.UFL.EDU MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I wonder if some of you would be kind enough to respond to me . We are a newly established organization with the goal of producing SILK in Egypt . We will be have our Owen Mulberry cultivation . We will have our Owen Silkworm rearing. We will have our Owen Silk reeling and Silk weaving. We are looking for equipment and technical assistance in achieving our project . CANE SOMEONE HELP US TO START . ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 15 Feb 1997 08:04:57 -0800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Roy Nettlebeck Subject: Re: Where to get package bees for mid-April shipment In-Reply-To: <19970214.141404.3342.1.awneedham@juno.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Fri, 14 Feb 1997, Albert W Needham wrote: > On Fri, 14 Feb 1997 11:32:34 -0500 Daniel G Jones writes: > > > I just called W. Kelly and they are already booked > > till mid May. I have been told that I need to get the bees > > in the hives in mid April. > > > > Is there any place else I should try? > > Dan: > > A suggestion - Do you know any beekeepers in your area, or do you belong > to > a local Bee Club/Association? > > The reason I ask is that in my local Club are some Commercial Beekeepers. > One > of them drives down to Georgia every year and gets a truckload for which > he has previously contracted ($13,000 worth) for package bees. > > Since he doesn't need a whole truckload for himself, he passes the word > and > even advertises in a local Farm publication to see who may want some > packages. > He sells the difference between what he needs and the truckload he has > contracted for to small beekeepers - mostly hobbyists. This cuts his > costs down > and it's a good deal for the smaller guys in terms of avoiding the > problems that > may arise obtaining packages thru the mail. The bees also spend less time > in > trans Hi Al and Dan, Getting the bees thru a beekeeper should be much better than the mail.I have done it both ways and bees are in better shape and less dead ones on the bottem of the box when someone hauls them up in a truck. If I was on the east coast , I could fix you up.I have about 100 extra packages I'm brining up to Washington. Some of the thanks has to go to the people on the Bee-L. After Varroa knocking down 50 hives in 95 and starting over in 96. It looks like I lost one , do to eating up all the stores. My hives have to be split, so it will be 100 that I need and not 200. I,m not building any more frames and boxs. When I pick up the bees in California ,they are ready for me at 6:00 AM. The evening before the package people put the bees and queen in the boxs. So in the morning , I just load up and I'm out of ther in under an hour.It takes 12 hours to get get home. I park the truck in the garrage that is dark and cool.Then I get about 6 hours of sleep. I have a friend that goes down with me now to help drive.That makes it much better.His name is Joe Mcmanus and is a cousin to Patrick Mcmanus the writer.Joe has the same hummer and we have a great trip.( they even look alike) I hope you get your bees Dan. Al has the right idea. Best Regards Roy ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 15 Feb 1997 08:15:55 -0800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Roy Nettlebeck Subject: Re: Plastic Foundation In-Reply-To: <970214081832_1745461451@emout13.mail.aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Fri, 14 Feb 1997, (Thomas) (Cornick) wrote: | > In a message dated 97-02-14 08:17:22 EST, you write: > > << > In respect to plastic foundation....If I recall correctly, in prior > discussions on > BEE-L about plastic foundation, I believe that someone said that bees > will > not rebuild foundation on plastic that has been scrapped "clean"! > >> > Folk bees will draw comb on a billiard ball if the honeyflow is strong > enough. > Hi All, You got me with the billiard ball. I do think your right. I use permedent and have no problem with the bees drawing the foundation out again. Duriguilt comes after the billiard ball for drawing out comb. I tried it once and wasn't good for me. It would be ok in a long steady honey flow. Best Regards Roy ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 15 Feb 1997 17:58:09 GMT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Morris Booton Subject: Re: Where to get package bees for mid-April shipment On 2/14/97 10:32AM, in message wrote: Daniel: I was able to order from York in Ga for delivery 1 april. As of three days ago. See adverstisement in Bee Culture. > Greetings, > > I just called W. Kelly and they are already booked > till mid May. I have been told that I need to get the bees > in the hives in mid April. > > Is there any place else I should try? Should I just wait til > May and start then? > > I'm a beginner and plan to start 3-4 colonies w/3 pound > packages. I was going to try 2 Italian and 1 or 2 Hybrid. > > thanks in advance. > > --dj > > Dan Jones > dgj+@pitt.edu > Phone: 1.412.624.2189 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 15 Feb 1997 12:21:13 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Joel W. Govostes" Subject: Re: frame spacing Comments: To: "Paul Cronshaw, D.C." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Paul - DON'T use the 9fr spacers in your brood chambers. They are made for honey-supers, and what they do is evenly space out the 9 frames across the box. As noted in my previous message, the manner of spacing 9 frames in a brood box is different. They are nearly as close together as if you had all 10 frames, and space is left over at the sides. If you use the metal spacers, the brood combs will be spaced wider than 1.5 inches, not to mention the spacers will constantly be getting in your WAY. You can't slide frames back and forth if you have the spacers, nor clean off the frame rests. They weren't intended for brood chambers. Thay can be handy for the supers, as you don't have to fuss with spacing out by hand. I used to have quite a few, but really, after a few years, there was so much propolis built up, and I couldn't clean off the frame rests, that I ended up just ripping the spacers out. Now I just eyeball, and as I said, space 8 super combs evenly across each honey super. Accurate spacing in the supers isn't as critical as in brood chambers. Hope this is helpful... JG ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 15 Feb 1997 12:29:13 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Joel W. Govostes" Subject: Frame-spacing in brood chambers Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I think this topic has come up before. About 3 years ago, I switched all my brood chambers over from 10 to 9 frames. This is recommended by Richard Taylor, Walter Kelley, and others in the books. Basically, it makes removal of brood nest combs much easier. In addition, it gives the bees more cluster-space and improves ventilation. (Not to mention saving you 10% on the expense of frames, over time, anyway.) Background: In the late 1800's/early 1900's there was a famous commercial beekeeper in the Northeast, named Moses Quinby. He built and used a hive considerably larger than the Langstroth hive. Its frames were longer, and a couple of inches deeper. This shape, he felt, was more suited to the natural laying pattern of the queen, and natural shape of the brood nest. Later, Charles Dadant and sons used a hive called the Dadant, with variations called the Dadant-Blatt (still used often in Europe) or Modified Dadant. This hive used the deep Quinby depth, but the length of each frame was the same as we have in the Langstroth. NOW, both the Quinby and the Dadant hives featured another important difference, and that was they both used Quinby's recommendation for frame *spacing*. In nature the spacing of brood combs is normally around 1 3/8" center to center. Sometimes it will be somewhat wider. Quinby noticed this, and so designed his frames to space 1 1/2" center-to-center. The wide spacing, he was convinced, was more beneficial to the colony, summer and winter. Charles Dadant, after many experiments with hives, concurred 100% with Quinby's wide spacing. So Dadant-hive brood frames are made to maintain this spacing as well. The Dadant hive (still popular in France, and used at Buckfast Abbey) is designed to hold 11-12 frames, as well as being deeper than our Langstroth hive bodies. Now, back to our Langstroth hive. Even though the frames are made to space the combs at 1 3/8", many beekeepers have found that manipulations are speeded up considerably when you only use 9 frames for brood. The added space is not so much that the bees build great quantities of burr comb, but it is of benefit in ventilation and even winter clustering. Proponents claim to see less swarming, do to the ventilation, and better wintering, due to space for more clustered bees between each pair of combs. According to Roger Morse at Cornell, the top-bar in common use on our frames nowadays is a leftover from the section comb honey era. The hives were made with thick and wide top bars, which were supposed to discourage the queen from going up into the supers. Since this is not necessary anymore (queen excluder or super of honey will keep the queen down below) we end up with quite tight bee-spaces between the frame tops, across the hive. This hampers bee movement, clustering, and access to the supers from below. By using 9 fr insead of 10 in brood chambers, you facilitate the movement of bees between chambers and up on into the supers. There is a bit more burr and brace comb with 9's, but not enough to justify going back to 10's, IMO. Some colonies just seem predisposed to build alot of burr/brace comb like that, and others don't build much of it at all. If you are careful about only leaving a smidgin of a space (1/8") between the frame - shoulders, you probably won't have much trouble with burr combing after all. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 15 Feb 1997 12:31:13 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Joel W. Govostes" Subject: How to space 9 brood frames Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To utilize 9 frames to advantage in Langstroth 10-frame brood chambers there is a particular way you need to arrange things, ideally. This means separating the "shoulders" of each pair of adjacent frames by about 1/8". This will give you about 1 1/2" spacing (a la Quinby), and ALSO about 1/2" space left over at each of the side walls. In other words, don't space the frames out evenly across, as you would in a honey super. Just space them a bit wider than if they were touching, leaving a gap at each side-wall of about 1/2". The bees then will apply some propolis in the spaces between the end-bars, and from then on the frames will be easy to maintain at that spacing. I am glad I switched to 9's, as some of the frames I'm using are very old. With ten frames there was too much time spent prying things apart and squeezing to get them to fit again. The shoulders on the end bars (especially on the old frames) were starting to break off, they were so strongly cemented together by the bees. YOU DON"T NEED "FOLLOWER BOARDS" to take up the extra space at the ends. This is valuble clustering and ventilation space. You may find that the outer 2 combs get built out a bit wider along the walls. The bees will mostly store honey and pollen in them. Still, they will be easy to remove (much easier than if you had 10 combs). Once you remove one you have all the space you need to manipulate the remaining frames without rolling and crushing bees. Tip -- You can put "droney" or otherwise poor combs on the outsides (frame #1 and frame #9), worst sides facing out. Since the queen won't be laying in these anyway, they don't need to be of exceptionally good quality, and thus you can keep the very best worker combs towards the center, for brood. If you do go this route, remember to use 10 frames until foundation is drawn and then you can space them out more, after removing one. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 15 Feb 1997 10:50:21 -0700 Reply-To: allend@internode.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Allen Dick Organization: The Beekeepers Subject: Re: frame spacing In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT > Paul - DON'T use the 9 frame spacers in your brood chambers. Although I usually agree with Joel, this time I have to disagree a bit; Not that the 9 frame spacers are ideal, IMO, they are not, but if you happen to have straight end bar frames, they are a solution, and if you use the Woodman end bars, they reduce gumming of the frames together. If you like them, use them. If they are in the box anyways, you may not want to remove them since with only a few boxes, it is nice to be able to interchange super boxes and brood boxes. Using this spacing, you can get away with warped combs that would not work well if crowded together. At one time half or more of my outfit had 9 frame spacers in the brood boxes. I never saw any difference in the hundreds of hives that were spaced with ten frame spacing and those hundreds with nine. I find the ten frame spacing *slightly* more convenient and flexible, and am moving towards no spacers, but it is not a priority. FWIW Regards Allen W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper VE6CFK RR#1, Swalwell, Alberta Canada T0M 1Y0 Internet:dicka@cuug.ab.ca & allend@internode.net Honey. Bees, & Art ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 15 Feb 1997 13:20:21 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Joel W. Govostes" Subject: Re: frame spacers Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Maybe I misunderstood you, Paul There are 9-fr spacers that nail over each frame-rest in the super. Also, there is another spacer available (actually a tool) which has a handle, and you hold it over the frames and separate them to the correct distance determined by notches in the spacer. Maybe you meant you have the latter type. I was referring to the nail-on, Stoller-type spacers, which IMO eventually become a nuisance. Now if I had beaucoups de beaucoups of supers like Allen, I'd probably learn to live with them! ;-) ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 15 Feb 1997 16:38:09 -0800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Steve Davis Subject: Apis mellifera mellifera MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Bee-Listers, Last fall I set a few partialy, filled supers out for my bees to clean-up and noticed several nearly, black honey bees enjoying the harvest too. During the twenty-three years I've had this hobby, I've mail ordered and kept Carniolans, Caucasians, Midnites and Italians, but I've never saw bees this dark. I'm wondering if it may be the Black bee my father's generation speak of as having in their younger years. Our local bee inspector (seventy years young himself) took a colony of Black bees from the wall of a building which is located within two miles from here. But within a year this swarm had breed out to the Italians he keeps. I don't believe the Black visitors of last fall are "kept" bees. I live in a sparsly populated area and, that I know of, only one other beekeeper is nearby. It's a long shot but is it possible the Black bee or maybe just this colony of Black bees is varroa resistant? When the varroa mite came in a few years ago, it literally wiped out the bees my father, brother, neighbors and I kept for decades. My reason for posting this and question is: Does anyone know of a realible method of tracking bees back to their tree? If I can find it, the last thing in the world I want to do is cut it down. But possibly I'll be able to catch a swarm with a bait hive placed nearby. Thanks, ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 15 Feb 1997 15:56:51 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Bently Durant Subject: do I have a queen or not MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Last fall I requeened my hive with the ars-Y-C-1 carniolan. I don't think that I did it exactly right, but I gessed it worked. I let the queen out when I saw that the bees weren't acting aggressivly tword her. About a month later I opened up the hive and saw no brood. This was past october so I could not order another queen. i had been thinking that she had either been killed or was just not laying untell I found bees bringing in pollen during a worm period this winter. I live in Texas so we have many worm periods. I had read that bees only collect pollen to feed to the brood. Does that mean that I have a queen? ...,,,...,,,~~~~~`````,,,...,,,...,,,~~~~~`````~~~~~~````` Why don't you join me in dyslexia land. A lend weair evey thimg is spelled ront. I think that I know everything because I know every thing that I learned and what I havent learned I don't know about :^) Bently Durant bently@hcn.hcnews.com ...,,,...,,,~~~~~`````,,,...,,,...,,,~~~~~`````~~~~~~````` ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 15 Feb 1997 16:10:45 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: KEN LAWRENCE Subject: Re: Apis mellifera mellifera MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Steve Davis wrote: > > > My reason for posting this and question is: Does anyone know of a > realible method of tracking bees back to their tree? If I can find it, > the last thing in the world I want to do is cut it down. But possibly > I'll be able to catch a swarm with a bait hive placed nearby. > > Thanks, Hello Steve: I have dug down in my files and found this one from George Willy. It was posted on the BEE-L so I doubt if he will mind if I give out his address. villginn@plainfield.bypass.com What you are looking for is BEELINING. I printed out the letter but it is about 5 pages and I don't type to fast so you might drop him a note. Ken Lawrence ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 15 Feb 1997 17:27:07 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Tim Gustafson Subject: Local action How might I find out about local bee clubs in the Elk River, Minnesota area. I have read every book on beekeeping in the library and, before I buy any equiptment, would like to get to know beekeepers in my area. Tim Gustafson ininsight@aol.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 15 Feb 1997 22:22:07 +0000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: D Warr Subject: Re: Varroa and oils of Laminaceae Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 10:56 9/2/1997 -0700, you wrote: >Has anyone had any experience/success using oil extracts of >plants from the Family Laminaceae as a substitute for using >Apistan strips? > >Here in the states some people have been experimenting with >oils from Thyme, wintergreen, spearmint, and a few other oils >and oil combinations as an attempt to lessen the effects that >varroa have on the hives. > >Any information on this would be very much appreciated. > >Thank you >Herman > >I wonder if OLBAS oil would work ?? I shall certainly try it as it contains all the herb oils mentioned here David Warr Cheshire UK (\ (\ (\ {|||8- {|||8- {|||8- David Warr (/ (/ (/ ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 15 Feb 1997 19:00:42 -0500 Reply-To: Daniel G Jones Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Daniel G Jones Subject: Re: Apis mellifera mellifera In-Reply-To: <33063465.2174@worldnet.att.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Sat, 15 Feb 1997, KEN LAWRENCE wrote: > Hello Steve: > I have dug down in my files and found this one from George > Willy. It was posted on the BEE-L so I doubt if he will mind if I give > out his address. villginn@plainfield.bypass.com > What you are looking for is BEELINING. > I printed out the letter but it is about 5 pages and I don't type to > fast so you might drop him a note. > Ken Lawrence Greetings, That message, and some more references to beelining are in log9612d.txt, which can be found at any of the bee-l archive sites. If you can't find on of these sites, you can get the file from http://advlearn.lrdc.pitt.edu/~jones/log9612d.txt This is a large (250k+) text file containing a number of messages to this list. There are at least 2 good references to info in the file, so keep searching on beelin until you get to the end. There is also some info in "Keeping Bes" by John Vivian, ISBN: 0-913589-19-5 I have not tried his instructions, but I hope to (if spring ever comes). On an info related note, I am in the process of creating a searchable index to the back "issues" of BEE-L. If I am duplicating someone elses work (i.e. if an easily searchable index is available on the www), let me know. As a beginner I donn't want to flood the list w/questions that have already bee answered. This way I can just search the list. It will also be made available to the list subscribers. Dan Jones dgj+@pitt.edu Mill Run, [SW] PA ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 15 Feb 1997 19:25:45 -0800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Vince Coppola Subject: Re: Plastic Foundation MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Albert W Needham wrote: > > In respect to plastic foundation....If I recall correctly, in prior > discussions on > BEE-L about plastic foundation, I believe that someone said that bees > will not rebuild foundation on plastic that has been scrapped "clean"! This is the case if you are refering to Dadants Duraguilt foundation. Plastic foundation such as Pierco or Permadent can be scraped and reused ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 15 Feb 1997 19:44:11 -0800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Vince Coppola Subject: Re: Duragilt and Pierco MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jack & Susan Griffes wrote: > > >From personal experience - not conjecture - I can assure you that if the > bees strip the wax off one patch or one side or one whole sheet of Duragilt > they will never in a million years rebuild the comb CORRECTLY on that frame > UNTIL you replace the foundation. Thats what I thought untill I got some bees from Rossman in GA. In general, these bees are very good at comb building and especially comb repair. I was quite surprised to see them reconstructing very nice worker cells over bare spots on Duraguilt. I've had Duraguilt in my operation for years and have never seen this before. Just another example of the many charcteristics that are possible to find in our bees. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 15 Feb 1997 19:58:14 -0800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Vince Coppola Subject: Re: Frame-spacing in brood chambers MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Joel W. Govostes wrote: > > About 3 years ago, I switched all my brood chambers over from 10 to 9 frames. This is recommended by Richard Taylor, Walter Kelley, and others in the books. Basically, it makes removal of brood nest combs much easier. In addition,it gives the bees more cluster-space and improves ventilation. Nine wooden frames are much easier to handle, and thats how most of my colonies are, but my favorite broodnest by far is 10 Piercos. They are easy to work and the nest is more compact. The Pierco frames are perfectly straight and do not warp so the spacing stays perfect. This is important for early buildup. In cool weather, bees can only raise the amount of brood they can keep warm. Closer spacing will give the bees more comb area within the cluster, resulting in more early brood. A few years ago a beekeeper named Hoover wrote for Gleanings. He advocated the use of eleven frames per broodnest for the above reason. Of course the frames were special. I doubt if nine per box results in more ventilaton because the bees will just draw the combs thicker. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 15 Feb 1997 20:45:37 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ian Watson Subject: Re: Frame-spacing in brood chambers In-Reply-To: <330685D6.73F7@epix.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Hi all..... I have been following this thread for the last few days, and while many interesting and logical points have been made about using 9 frames in the brood box, I have one reservation which I don't believe has been mentioned yet. This is the fact that there will be 10 % less space for the queen to lay, and consequently 10 % less bees, which seems to me to be NOT what we want, at least as far as honey production is concerned. Any comments?.... Cheers, Ian @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ @ Ian Watson @ @ iwatson@freenet.npiec.on.ca @ @ @ @ THREE BEES: @ @ Bach singer ,/// @ @ Bee keeper >8'III}- @ @ Bell ringer ',\\\ @ @ @ @ 5 hives, 2 years in Beekeeping @ @ St. Catharines, Canada @ @ "I BEE, therefore I am" @ @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 15 Feb 1997 19:47:56 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Victor M.Kroenke" Subject: Re: Frame-spacing in brood chambers MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Joel W. Govostes wrote: > > > > Now, back to our Langstroth hive. Even though the frames are made to space > the combs at 1 3/8", many beekeepers have found that manipulations are > speeded up considerably when you only use 9 frames for brood. Maybe my math is in error but I calculate 10 frame spacing to be 1.475 inches and 9 frame spacing to be 1.62 inches. Vic Kansas USA ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 15 Feb 1997 21:05:08 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Joel W. Govostes" Subject: Re: Frame-spacing in brood chambers Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Vince Coppola wrote: >snip>... A few >years ago a beekeeper named Hoover wrote for Gleanings. He advocated the >use of eleven frames per broodnest for the above reason. Of course the >frames were special. I doubt if nine per box results in more ventilaton >because the bees will just draw the combs thicker. Hi Vince -- Hoover planed down the shoulders on his frames, to get eleven into a hive body. According to him, this was ideal, and provided enough brood space in a single chamber. He seemed bound and determined to prove that double brood chambers were not necessary. However, Ormond Aebi (in MASTERING THE ART OF BEEKEEPING) notes that he and his father thought the idea was great, too, and they also tried it. It was an utter failure for them. Even if it could be workable for a while, after a couple of seasons it would certainly be a great disadvantage, and a big time-waster! I believe what Mr. Hoover did was to space the brood combs 1.25" instead of 1 3/8", thereby allowing room for one extra comb. I read all those articles of his, back in the 70's. He seemed to come up with quite a few odd ideas (including supers without frames, hives disguised as air conditioning units, "preventing" swarming with entrance-excluders, etc.). I contend that there IS considerably more ventilation with 9 brood frames. For one thing, you have extra space at the hive walls, giving the honey-laden bees easy access right up through at the sides. The bees will not draw the combs thicker, if they are brood combs. There is an optimum depth to a brood cell. Honey-combs on the other hand, they will draw out fatter. At the peak of spring buildup, if you were to pry and tip up the upper brood chamber, and look up between the brood combs, the difference between a 9-frame brood chamber and a 10-frame brood chamber would be obvious. The one with 9 frames would be clearly less congested. I have never seen brood comb extended out at all, except occasionally in the upper corners, where new honey had been stored. . FWIW ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 15 Feb 1997 21:15:46 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Joel W. Govostes" Subject: brood frame spacing Comments: To: iwatson@FREENET.NPIEC.ON.CA Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hi Ian. What has not been mentioned regarding this is that 2 deep chambers commonly comprise the brood nest (in the north anyway), so we are talking about 18 combs total. The queen rarely lays in the outside frames, so even with 14 combs there is plenty of room for the brood and food stores. I do know some folks here in NY who use just 9 frames in single-brood-chamber colonies. In fact, when they do the math, they come up with a good queen only needing *7* deep combs for laying, if they are of good quality. By the time she uses up the space, bees are emerging and empty cells are available again. So they don't worry about lack of comb space, and their honey crops certainly don't seem any worse for it. --jwg ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 15 Feb 1997 21:32:21 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Joel W. Govostes" Subject: Re: Frame-spacing in brood chambers Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hi Victor. Langstroth Hoffman-type frames, as commonly supplied in USA, are designed so that when the frames are crowded together, they are automatically spaced at 1 3/8". Normally there will be some room left over at each side of the hive body as well. >Maybe my math is in error but I calculate 10 frame spacing to be 1.475 >inches and 9 frame spacing to be 1.62 inches. OK, but IME the brood frames are best not spread evenly across the box. With 10 frames the end-bar shoulders are butting right up against each other. This leaves some extra space at the sides. With 9 frames, there is a bit of a gap between adjacent frame-shoulders, and again you end up with some space at the sides. [If, instead, one uses 9 frames along with a dummy board or two, then the frames are right up tight against each other (as with 10), and the dummy board goes between the first frame and the adjacent hive wall. This can be advantageous, but then you have to have dummies -- another piece of equipment to worry about]. In honey supers, on the other hand, the combs are evenly spread out across the box; that's maybe how you get the 1.62".(?) Also depends on your hive body inside measurements, too, which can vary considerably, as Allen has noted. ---------JG ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 15 Feb 1997 23:23:02 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Gerry Visel Subject: Re: frame spacing The commercial beekeepers in our club use a 1 x 2 board with ten one - two inch long tapered pegs on it that is placed like a comb between the top bars to evenly space the frames. Cute tool! like: ____________________ |___________________| \/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/ Gerry and the other Visels at Visel7@juno.com Winnebago, Illinois, USA ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 15 Feb 1997 23:23:02 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Gerry Visel Subject: Re: do I have a queen or not Bently, If you have bees now, you probably have a queen. They woulda left, or raised another if there were any eggs. She stops laying about october, and starts again in january (around here in northern Illinois, at least.) I bet if you checked them now, you'd see lots of young (littler) bees, as well as brood. Don't be scared to get in there and look, even when it is cool, if you aren't sure. (Just don't keep them out long if they aren't covered with bees, just long enough to see the brood.) BWT, I not am lysdexic! (I think am I!) ;-) Gerry and the other Visels at Visel7@juno.com Winnebago, Illinois, USA ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 16 Feb 1997 00:09:55 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ted Fischer Subject: Re: 9 OR 10 frame MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jack & Susan Griffes wrote: > > There are people who would argue on both sides. We prefer to run 10 in the > 10 frame brood chambers. When you run nine in a 10 frame brood chamber the > bees make a terrible mess of the comb because they have extra space to play > with. > > In supers this extra space gets taken care of by building thicker comb - > but in the brood nest the brood comb itself will only be just so thick. So > if you like nice pretty and straight combs with no brace comb between them > then I would advise using 10 frames in your 10 frame brood boxes. > I agree with the first sentence. However, 9 frames in the brood chamber hardly ever causes any of these problems with brace comb. I always use 9 frames except when drawing out foundation - then ten frames are necessary or brace comb will result. The 9-frame setup allows much easier access when removing frames, its main advantage for me. In the supers, as stated above, much thicker comb can be built. That is why I always use 8 frames in the supers. This cuts down on the number of frames to be handled per super, as well as results in more honey per super (as well as far easier uncapping of the combs!). Occasionally, brace comb will be built there, but that is easily cut out and sent down with the cappings. Ted Fischer Dexter, Michigan, USA ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 16 Feb 1997 01:22:45 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ted Fischer Subject: Re: HYG (haemolymph?) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dennis and Marian wrote: > > In a posting by Jack and Susan Griffes (Re: Duragilt and Pierco), from Michigan, inspection for this (apparent) desease was mentioned. Forgive my ignorance, but what is it? > Neither HYG nor haemolymph is a disease. HYG is the genetic characteristic of bees in which they rapidly clean out dead brood. Haemolymph is the body fluid (similar to our blood) of insects. Ted Fischer Dexter, Michigan, USA ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 16 Feb 1997 01:03:55 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jack & Susan Griffes Subject: Haemolymph & HYG MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a posting by Jack and Susan Griffes (Re: Duragilt and Pierco), from Michigan, inspection for this (apparent) desease was mentioned. Forgive my ignorance, but what is it? Dennis Morefield Bees-N-Honey denmar@mind.net Dennis and all Bee-L folks, Please forgive me for the confusion caused by my abbreviations. HYG = hygienic behavior - the ability to notice a problem in the sealed brood, uncap the cell and remove the affected larvae or pupa. Haemolymph = bee blood The pin prick method uses a thin insect pin to puncture the capping and kill the pupa by piercing it. This shed haemolymph which is noted by even bees very low in HYG. We prefer the frozen brood HYG test explained repeatedly by Steve Taber in the various bee magazines in America. Hope that clears up the confusion. Jack Griffes Country Jack's Honeybee Farm Horseshoeing by Jack Griffes Ottawa Lake, MI 49267 USA e-mail Griffes@ix.netcom.com Web page http://www2.netcom.com/~griffes/ ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 16 Feb 1997 02:08:07 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: MIDNITEBEE Subject: new articles MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit http://www.cybertours.com/~midnitebee/ Greetings! I have inserted 3 new pages to my site: 1) Spring management of wintered colonies:site has recipe for sugar candy or slurry. Ways to prevent starvation,frame placement,when to feed sugar. 2)Making increases:Package bees,Swarms,nucs,divisions/splits 3)A Year in the Apiary;monthly schedule for beekeepers in the N.E. Next project:Placement of Honeybee colonies used for Blueberry Pollination Hope you find info useful, Midnitebee(Herb) ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 16 Feb 1997 07:47:57 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Joel W. Govostes" Subject: Re: Brood Frame Spacing, with a reservation Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Not to beat a dead horse, but hope the frame-spacing info is helpful to some of the bee crowd out there. Here's my final offering on this, an instance of 9-frames being problematic: I once had a friend who got interested in the hobby, and got a half dozen hives or so, all new equipment. This was back when we were in high school (early 80's). Well, as often happens, we got involved with other things (& a different sort of females) and the bees were neglected for 2-3 years. Then we decided to check them out one day. He had used 9 frames in the brood boxes. What a mess. In a number of hives, the combs were all spaced crazy, many of them crooked, others all coated with gobs of old propolis. Some frames had portions of double-combs on them, etc. etc. -- it was a lot of work trying to inspect some of those colonies. The bees didn't appreciate our knocking things around, either! That was a good example of the improper use of 9 frames, and I'm careful to not let things get sloppy like that! I was also surprised to see this topic covered quite thoroughly in a recently-published German beekeeping manual. Evidently the idea has its proponents in Europe as well. It's always helpful to discuss things like this with other local beekeepers, to see what there experiences have been. There are always variations between colonies as well. Best wishes to all, JG ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 16 Feb 1997 07:58:38 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Joel W. Govostes" Subject: Spacing - reference correction Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >Vince Coppola wrote: > >>snip>... A few >>years ago a beekeeper named Hoover wrote for Gleanings. Actually I think his name was Koover(?) -- Charles, perhaps? I don't have any of the Gleanings issues left around here. As I recall, he wrote his GLEANINGS column from California and later Hawaii. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 16 Feb 1997 09:35:57 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: DncMcCloud@aol.com Subject: Re: new articles How can I obtain copies of these articles? ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 16 Feb 1997 14:33:25 +0000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: D Warr Subject: Re: Where to get package bees for mid-April shipment Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 08:04 15/2/1997 -0800, you wrote: >On Fri, 14 Feb 1997, Albert W Needham wrote: > >> On Fri, 14 Feb 1997 11:32:34 -0500 Daniel G Jones writes: >> >> > I just called W. Kelly and they are already booked >> > till mid May. I have been told that I need to get the bees >> > in the hives in mid April. >> > >> > Is there any place else I should try? >> >> Dan: >> >> A suggestion - Do you know any beekeepers in your area, or do you belong >> to a local Bee Club/Association? >> >> The reason I ask is that in my local Club are some Commercial Beekeepers. >> One of them drives down to Georgia every year and gets a truckload for which >> he has previously contracted ($13,000 worth) for package bees. >> >> Since he doesn't need a whole truckload for himself, he passes the word >> and even advertises in a local Farm publication to see who may want some >> packages. >> He sells the difference between what he needs and the truckload he has >> contracted for to small beekeepers - mostly hobbyists. This cuts his >> costs down and it's a good deal for the smaller guys in terms of avoiding the >> problems that may arise obtaining packages thru the mail. The bees also spend less >> time in transit. > >Hi Al and Dan, Getting the bees thru a beekeeper should be much better >than the mail.I have done it both ways and bees are in better shape and >less dead ones on the bottem of the box when someone hauls them up in a >truck. > If I was on the east coast , I could fix you up.I have about 100 extra >packages I'm brining up to Washington. Some of the thanks has to go to the >people on the Bee-L. After Varroa knocking down 50 hives in 95 and >starting over in 96. It looks like I lost one , do to eating up all the >stores. My hives have to be split, so it will be 100 that I need and not >200. I,m not building any more frames and boxs. > When I pick up the bees in California ,they are ready for me at 6:00 AM. >The evening before the package people put the bees and queen in the boxs. >So in the morning , I just load up and I'm out of ther in under an hour.It >takes 12 hours to get get home. I park the truck in the garrage that is >dark and cool.Then I get about 6 hours of sleep. I have a friend that goes >down with me now to help drive.That makes it much better.His name is Joe >Mcmanus and is a cousin to Patrick Mcmanus the writer.Joe has the same >hummer and we have a great trip.( they even look alike) > I hope you get your bees Dan. Al has the right idea. > Best Regards > Roy > > (\ (\ (\ {|||8- {|||8- {|||8- David Warr (/ (/ (/ ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 16 Feb 1997 09:46:47 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Charles Henry Subject: Re: TBH and cold weather I have recently built a top bar hive. The recent cold snap has made me re-evaluate its effectiveness in cold weather. Since it has legs, cold air can circulate under the hive as oppose to the dead space under conventional hives. The single layer of frames would seems to be less effective in holding heat. Should I expect higher winter mortality with this type of hive? Is winter insulation appropriate. Charles Henry Little Rock ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 16 Feb 1997 08:36:34 -0700 Reply-To: allend@internode.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Allen Dick Organization: The Beekeepers Subject: Re: new articles In-Reply-To: <970216093557_206270093@emout04.mail.aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT > How can I obtain copies of these articles? > Which articles? Regards Allen W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper VE6CFK RR#1, Swalwell, Alberta Canada T0M 1Y0 Internet:dicka@cuug.ab.ca & allend@internode.net Honey. Bees, & Art ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 16 Feb 1997 15:34:22 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "(Thomas) (Cornick)" Subject: Strange behavior Well I thought I would get away with carrying a two frame observation hive through winter but today when I looked the bees were all jammed into the exit tube (it is only 40Degrees today). Yesterday when I looked they were covering a small spot of brood. Today they are acting like lemmings. Anybody out there got an Idea on this ? ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 16 Feb 1997 09:59:06 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: aarcher Subject: Re: Apis mellifera mellifera MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I am a new beekeeper and have very little experience with the different bees, however my interest in beekeeping came from reading an excerpt from a (approx. 1940's) article on beelining (source unknown). After building a bee box, which I'll try and explain the basics of, I was able to track two colonies to their trees using the "bee line method"... The procedure is not complicated once a suitable box has been constructed. The box consists of two adjoining compartments. I divided a small box into 2 approx. equal chambers by taping a piece of cardboard in the middle. It's important to leave a small area at the bottom of this cardboard divider which serves as a permanent opening or walkway between chambers one and two. ( use your imagination here) The first chamber has a lid (hinge recommended for lid but I used cardboard and duct tape for the hinge). This compartment is used for catching the individual bee(s) as it forages for nectar. There is a second rear chamber formed by inserting the cardboard divider and it is connected to this entry compartment. The second compartment has only one feature: A small window ( made of heavy plastic and duct taped to the box) which can be covered or uncovered to allow light into the rear chamber when desired. We left an opening between chambers one and two so we need to make a simple device which I'll call a sliding door which can be operated from outside of the box and will allow entry and exit (or no entry/exit) to and from the rear chamber, ( something like a 1" wide tongue depressor with a rectangular door slot cut into it maybe an inch or so from one end. If the box used is 4" wide this sliding door will need to be about 7-8" wide. (The sliding door is inserted parallel to and in such a way as to physically touch the (cardboard) divider. ( I visualize the slide as you might an arrow extending from each side of the box- yes it is a bit awkward to handle but functional nonetheless). The slide is operated from the outside of the box.. When the hole in this sliding door is moved over the permanent cut hole (doorway ) between the chambers, a walkway is created. Conversely, when the two holes are out of alignment and not properly overlaid, there is no entry from one chamber to another. Once the principles of beelining are understood, it's a simple matter to construct a bee box of suitable nature. Apparently just about any shape or size will work. Experiment. My first box was made in about 15 minutes and consisted of one "hot cereal" box which is about 6"L by 4"W by 3" tall, some mostly clear plastic sheeting (4ml) (2"x2") for the window and some duct tape.. To complete the process of bee lining, you will also need sugar syrup as bait, some sort of small dish to feed the bees from, and a little patience.. Here's the method I used successfully to track two colonies in a very short two days effort:. A single bee is captured by placing the box under the foraging bee and gently closing the lid over her. She is encouraged to enter the rear compartment by first aligning the two slots opening the doorway. The rear window is uncovered ( or opened ) so light enters the rear compartment. The bee moves toward the light and will soon be seen buzzing around the window in the rear compartment. Once the bee is in the rear chamber, close the door. She is captured there by moving the door slide out of alignment with the permanent door opening. NOTE- beelining can be done with only one bee, but a few 4-5 would be preferable. Catch a second, third, fourth, etc. by the same technique. Trap in the front compartment, open the rear window for light, and open the slide for bees to gather in the lighted rear compartment. Close door and repeat for each bee... If you've followed me so far, we have one to several bees trapped in our rear chamber. Now we need to feed them.. With the door between the chambers CLOSED, open the hinged lid to the front compartment and insert a tiny container which will hold sugar syrup (I used a chunk of wax hollowed out to form a serving dish. This dish must be small enough to fit easily inside the front compartment, yet large enough to hold several eyedroppers of syrup. The bees don't seem to care what kind of dishes they are served on. Several eyedroppers full of sugar syrup might be enough to get them "running the line".. Close the hinged lid of compartment one and open the sliding door making a passageway for the bees to access the food in chamber one.. Leave the bees there for 3-5 minutes before opening. If all goes well, when you open the hinged lid on the front chamber, at least a couple of the bees will be seen bending over the dishes loading up on what must seem to be a free meal. Once a bee has loaded, she will leave, fly off to the colony and report her good news and should within 10 minutes return for a second load. Usually she brings a friend or two with her to share in her find. To make a long story short, within 20-30 minutes depending upon the distance to the hive many bees will now be loading, leaving, and returning with more friends.. At this point, you need to regularly replenish the sugar syrup source in the front chamber. Once a rousing line starts (maybe a couple of hundred bees will get involved), it becomes possible to see a general direction that the bees use when leaving. The first few trips it's very difficult to see a line because the bees are cautious when arriving and departing. After a few minutes of what appears to be confused circling, however, it becomes apparent in which general direction the bees are traveling. Once you have a general idea of direction, we are ready for move #1. Move #1 consists of first capturing as many bees as possible in the bee box and then moving the entire setup in the direction of this estimated line. To capture the bees which are now gobbling up sugar syrup like crazy from within the bee box is a simple matter of closing the hinged lid, and like before using light from the rear compartment to coax the critters into the rear chamber after which the door slide is shut behind them. Capture some more in the front chamber and repeat the process of trapping them in the rear compartment until a substantial # of bees is captured. (20-30) foraging feeding bees is enough to make a move.... Once the bees are in the rear compartment, we move up the estimated line a couple hundred yards and set up again.. This consists of refilling the syrup container in the front compartment FIRST and then shutting the hinged lid BEFORE releasing the bees from the rear compartment. The bees will now fill up and in 3-5 minutes can be allowed to fly home from this new location when you open the hinged lid.. The line will start again and this time (since we've gone in the direction of the hive we hope) things happen much quicker. The bees return quicker from each load and bring more friends each trip. It's important to keep the bees dish/container full and they will consume lots of syrup in a short while.. The point here is to again pay attention to the direction in general that the bees leave. Once they are comfortable with the new site ( a couple of minutes at most) they will pretty much "bee line" it home. Once the estimated line is established, we are ready for Moves 2,3,4 and as many as need be until the hive is located. With each move ( which should be shorter moves the closer we get to the hive) we should get closer to the actual colony and the increasing numbers of bees makes it easier to determine the "bee line". At a point in time one of 2 things will happen. First off we will simply see where the bees are flying to (most likely it will take a bit of looking even when close- just keep watching the estimated direction) OR two, the bees will do something really odd. They may seem to be going in the direction from which you just came (in which case you can be assured that you have gone past the hive) and you should go back somewhere on the line between where you last set up and this point (past the hive and too far up line)... It's confusing without a diagram I admit to build the box. I have plans for a simple bee box here as well as a short detailed description of the above, but I do not have a way to scan into the computer at this time. However, If you would be interested in getting a copy, I'll try and work something out from this end... E-Mail me for more details... Note- No self respecting bee would think to sting the hand of a generous beekeeper feeding them such wonderful sugar syrup, and there is no worry whatsoever of getting stung while "lining".. I can not believe the same case will come should you decide to rob the nest.. I think swarm traps and pheromone lures are appropriate ways to catch a swarm from and not destroy a healthy colony or tree.... ---------- > From: Steve Davis > To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU > Subject: Apis mellifera mellifera > Date: Saturday, February 15, 1997 5:38 PM > > Bee-Listers, > My reason for posting this and question is: Does anyone know of a > realible method of tracking bees back to their tree? If I can find it, > the last thing in the world I want to do is cut it down. But possibly > I'll be able to catch a swarm with a bait hive placed nearby. > > Thanks, ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 09:17:44 +1000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Chris Allen Subject: Re: 10 or 9 frames in brood chamber? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >BTW I'm a chiropractor by profession so I recommend proper lifting >proceedures to my beekeeper patients to prevent low back problems. This a point I like to stress when I talk to new beekeepers. I usually ask them to name the beekeeper's most important asset. They never give the answer I am looking for. I tell the that beekeeper's back is *THE* most important asset and they should look after it properly. Some of you may dispute that your back is more import than the rest. However my reasoning is close enough to the truth to make people think a more carefully about their lifting technique. Regards Chris Allen ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 16 Feb 1997 17:20:03 -0500 Reply-To: Ian Watson Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ian Watson Subject: Re: brood frame spacing Comments: To: "Joel W. Govostes" In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Sat, 15 Feb 1997, Joel W. Govostes wrote: > I do know some folks here in NY who use just 9 frames in > single-brood-chamber colonies. In fact, when they do the math, they come > up with a good queen only needing *7* deep combs for laying, if they are of > good quality. By the time she uses up the space, bees are emerging and > empty cells are available again. So they don't worry about lack of comb > space, and their honey crops certainly don't seem any worse for it. --jwg Hi Joel Thanks. That explains it then: there is a physical limitation on how many frames are needed due to the maximum number of eggs the queen lays per day, and the time it takes for the brood to hatch. But this raises other questions. Like, what if you have a not-so-productive queen? Either re-queen or you dont get as many bees. I still think that I will use the ten frames. That's how the hives are designed and you DO get the extra space at the sides if you make sure the frames are pushed together, at least the usual "hoffman" type are. This way you get ample space for brood rearing. IMHO :) Cheers, Ian @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ @ Ian Watson @ @ iwatson@freenet.npiec.on.ca @ @ @ @ THREE BEES: @ @ Bach singer ,/// @ @ Bee keeper >8'III}- @ @ Bell ringer ',\\\ @ @ @ @ 5 hives, 2 years in Beekeeping @ @ St. Catharines, Canada @ @ "I BEE, therefore I am" @ @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 16 Feb 1997 17:25:07 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ian Watson Subject: Re: brood frame spacing Comments: To: "Joel W. Govostes" In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Hi all Please disregard part of my last post concerning 9 or 10 frames. Evidently my brain was on "stand-by" when I was writing the latter part....;) Regards, Ian @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ @ Ian Watson @ @ iwatson@freenet.npiec.on.ca @ @ @ @ THREE BEES: @ @ Bach singer ,/// @ @ Bee keeper >8'III}- @ @ Bell ringer ',\\\ @ @ @ @ 5 hives, 2 years in Beekeeping @ @ St. Catharines, Canada @ @ "I BEE, therefore I am" @ @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 16 Feb 1997 18:51:33 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Albert W Needham Subject: Re: new articles On Sun, 16 Feb 1997 02:08:07 -0500 MIDNITEBEE writes: >http://www.cybertours.com/~midnitebee/ > >Greetings! I have inserted 3 new pages to my site: Herb: Your site is fast developing into an informative place. Thanks for keeping us advised! Al --- Al Needham--Scituate,MA,USA--awneedham@juno.com Author Of "The HoneyBee"-- Educational Program About Honey Bees With A Superb Slide Show-Version 2.0 (c) 1997 Download From Sweden At : http://www.kuai.se/~beeman ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 16 Feb 1997 18:51:33 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Albert W Needham Subject: Re: Where to get package bees for mid-April shipment > If I was on the east coast , I could fix you up.I have about 100 > extra packages I'm bringing up to Washington. Well Roy, why don't you just start heading east if you aren't able to dump them all in Washington? Announce your route on BEE-L. Have anyone interested stand by the side of the road waving their head net. You probably will sell the last package before you get to the eastern end of Montana. Al --- Al Needham--Scituate,MA,USA--awneedham@juno.com Author Of "The HoneyBee"-- Educational Program About Honey Bees With A Superb Slide Show-Version 2.0 (c) 1997 Download From Sweden At : http://www.kuai.se/~beeman ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 16 Feb 1997 19:54:09 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Bobby R Fanning Subject: Re: Brood Frame Spacing, with a reservation MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Joel, With modern mite problems, nine frames may not have been the cause of your comb problem. This day and time 2.5 years of no attention could have resulted in your bees having died, followed by wax moths, followed by new swarms moving in. The wax moths would have destroyed all foundation resulting in the bees building with, in effect, no frames (of foundation). Could that have been a possibility then ? Bob Fanning Huntsville AL. ---------- > From: Joel W. Govostes > To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU > Subject: Re: Brood Frame Spacing, with a reservation > Date: Sunday, February 16, 1997 6:47 AM > > Not to beat a dead horse, but hope the frame-spacing info is helpful to > some of the bee crowd out there. > > Here's my final offering on this, an instance of 9-frames being problematic: > > I once had a friend who got interested in the hobby, and got a half dozen > hives or so, all new equipment. This was back when we were in high school > (early 80's). Well, as often happens, we got involved with other things (& > a different sort of females) and the bees were neglected for 2-3 years. > Then we decided to check them out one day. > > He had used 9 frames in the brood boxes. What a mess. In a number of > hives, the combs were all spaced crazy, many of them crooked, others all > coated with gobs of old propolis. Some frames had portions of double-combs > on them, etc. etc. -- it was a lot of work trying to inspect some of those > colonies. The bees didn't appreciate our knocking things around, either! > That was a good example of the improper use of 9 frames, and I'm careful to > not let things get sloppy like that! > > I was also surprised to see this topic covered quite thoroughly in a > recently-published German beekeeping manual. Evidently the idea has its > proponents in Europe as well. > > It's always helpful to discuss things like this with other local > beekeepers, to see what there experiences have been. There are always > variations between colonies as well. > > Best wishes to all, > > JG ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 16 Feb 1997 21:16:06 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Steve.Reddick" Organization: Home Subject: Spring management Info Comments: cc: Herb MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Herb: After see your letter I quickly set to checking out your site. I was not able to find "spring management," I found fall management. Maybe I am not intuitive enough, to flow through these sites. Anyway I am interested in a very interested in a good sugar candy recipe or slurry that has very accurate directions. Time, temp, amount of stirring, thickness when removed from heat. This will be my first time for spring management. I have gotten my first 3 hives this far and they are still alive so far. One of my hives will need feeding for sure. Any help or direction through your site would be helpful. Thank. > Greetings! I have inserted 3 new pages to my site: > > 1 spring management of wintered colonies: site has recipe for sugar candy > or slurry. Ways to prevent starvation, frame placement, when to feed sugar. > > 2) Making increases: Package bees,Swarms,nucs,divisions/splits > > Midnitebee(Herb) ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 16 Feb 1997 21:16:53 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Gerry Visel Subject: Re: Strange behavior Thomas, Just clean them out and make sure they have an exit to outside still. Mine did that last year. I just cleaned them up and kept plenty of feed on them, and they bounced back fine. Can't tell where you are located, but my field hive bees get out to fly even now when it gets up near that temperature. The obs hive (3-framer) sometimes flies sooner, I guess because it is warmer inside, or maybe it is the light cycle (longer days coming on.) Maybe mites? The obs hive is building up a small patch of brood. She started laying in January. Gerry and the other Visels at Visel7@juno.com Winnebago, Illinois, USA On Sun, 16 Feb 1997 15:34:22 -0500 "(Thomas) (Cornick)" writes: > Well I thought I would get away with carrying a two frame >observation hive through winter but today when I looked the bees >were all jammed into the exit tube (it is only 40Degrees today). > > Yesterday when I looked they were covering a small spot of brood. >Today they are acting like lemmings. > Anybody out there got an Idea on this ? > ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 16 Feb 1997 21:21:31 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Steve.Reddick" Organization: Home Subject: Spring management Info MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sorry : that last post from me was not for the List Sorry: ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 16 Feb 1997 21:25:42 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Tim Gustafson Subject: New vs Old Greetings, I'd like to add several hives and wonder what experience people have had buying used equipment. Where do you find it? Are there any risks? Or would I be better off getting the table saw out and doing the work with new materials? How about processing equipment? Anyone have any war stories to share? Eager to bee. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 16 Feb 1997 21:47:44 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ian Watson Subject: Re: Spring management Info In-Reply-To: <3307BF66.241F@barint.on.ca> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Sun, 16 Feb 1997, Steve.Reddick wrote: > Hi Herb: > After see your letter I quickly set to checking out your site. I was > not able to find "spring management," I found fall management. Maybe I Herb....I found a similar problem. Although I dont have Netscape and am only able to use the LYNX browser, I am able to highlight and follow most links on your page, except the new one on Spring Management and a couple others below it. Sorry to complain because the rest of your site is excellent.:) Ian @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ @ Ian Watson @ @ iwatson@freenet.npiec.on.ca @ @ @ @ THREE BEES: @ @ Bach singer ,/// @ @ Bee keeper >8'III}- @ @ Bell ringer ',\\\ @ @ @ @ 5 hives, 2 years in Beekeeping @ @ St. Catharines, Canada @ @ "I BEE, therefore I am" @ @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 16 Feb 1997 23:53:29 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Faith Andrews Bedford Subject: Re: Local action In a message dated 97-02-15 17:27:58 EST, you write: << How might I find out about local bee clubs in the Elk River, Minnesota area. I have read every book on beekeeping in the library and, before I buy any equiptment, would like to get to know beekeepers in my area. Tim Gustafson ininsight@aol.com >> Tim - Just contact our local extension service. I'm sure they'll have the name of the local bee group; they do in most states. Faith Andrews Bedford, Ivy VA and Tampa ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 00:47:12 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: MIDNITEBEE Subject: additions / new articles MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit http://www.cybertours.com/~midnitebee/ Greetings! It's snowing in Maine,temps in the teens.Maybe by the middle of the week,it might reach 40 degrees(F).OH BOY!! OH JOY!! I need to bee more specific where the new articles are located on my web site.All additions are located on my BEELINKS page.I have added 2 more articles; 1)Honeybees & Pesticdes:Listing of all or most of all pesticides,fungicides,and insecticides,herbicides,defoliants and desiccants.Article has how,when and where placement of colonies should be located. 2)Placement of Bee Colonies & Bee Etiquette for Pollination:Article includes colony density,timing,location and honey bee etiquette for the grower and beekeeper Enjoy Midnitebee(Herb) ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 13:20:37 +0100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Katedra hydinarstva a malych hosp.zvierat AF" Subject: Re: Help on a new subject In-Reply-To: <199702151431.QAA29570@intouch2.intouch.com> from "Mahmoud H. Kamel...." at Feb 15, 97 04:36:47 pm Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > I wonder if some of you would be kind enough to respond to me . > > We are a newly established organization with the goal of producing SILK > in Egypt . > > We will be have our Owen Mulberry cultivation . > We will have our Owen Silkworm rearing. > We will have our Owen Silk reeling and Silk weaving. > > We are looking for equipment and technical assistance in achieving our > project . > > CANE SOMEONE HELP US TO START . > Hello ! I am beekeeper from Slovakia and have no experience with silkworm production. I want just advise you FAO technical papers on silkworm: No. 73/1 Mulberry cultivation, 1988 73/2 Silkworm rearing, 1988 73/3 Silkworm egg production, 1989 73/4 Silkworm diseases, 1991 FAO publish quite useful papers... Maybye it will help you. With best regards Robo ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 15:21:35 GMT Reply-To: Tim_Sterrett@westtown.edu Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Tim Sterrett Organization: Westtown School Subject: Re: New vs Old Eager-to-bee-writes: >I'd like to add several hives and wonder what experience people have had >buying used equipment. Where do you find it? Are there any risks? Or >would I be better off getting the table saw out and doing the work with new >materials? How about processing equipment? Anyone have any war stories to >share? The risk of using old equipment is the chance of infecting bees with American Foulbrood. Foulbrood spores can survive in old bee equipment. But Terramycin treatments can hold foulbrood in check. Making bee boxes is not difficult if the wood is available. Making bee boxes of the exact dimensions that will reduce the amount of burr comb the bees will build is more of a challenge. Making frames involves too many cuts to be attractive to me. Extractors are expensive to buy new and they are of no use to people who end up with no bees. Lucky beekeepers can make a deal for future deliveries of honey in exchange for a used extractor. How to find used equipment: drop the word to all of your acquaintances that you are interested in old bee equipment. Many people have dropped out of beekeeping in recent years because the arrival of mites made more management necessary. Tim Tim Sterrett Westtown, (Southeastern) Pennsylvania, USA tim_sterrett@westtown.edu ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 08:44:00 -0500 Reply-To: BEE-L@cnsibm.albany.edu Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Excerpts from BEE-L Organization: BestOfBee@systronix.net Subject: Re: (Fwd) send beelining MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT I am a new beekeeper and have very little experience with the different bees, however my interest in beekeeping came from reading an excerpt from a (approx. 1940's) article on beelining (source unknown). After building a bee box, which I'll try and explain the basics of, I was able to track two colonies to their trees using the "bee line method"... The procedure is not complicated once a suitable box has been constructed. The box consists of two adjoining compartments. I divided a small box into 2 approx. equal chambers by taping a piece of cardboard in the middle. It's important to leave a small area at the bottom of this cardboard divider which serves as a permanent opening or walkway between chambers one and two. ( use your imagination here) The first chamber has a lid (hinge recommended for lid but I used cardboard and duct tape for the hinge). This compartment is used for catching the individual bee(s) as it forages for nectar. There is a second rear chamber formed by inserting the cardboard divider and it is connected to this entry compartment. The second compartment has only one feature: A small window ( made of heavy plastic and duct taped to the box) which can be covered or uncovered to allow light into the rear chamber when desired. We left an opening between chambers one and two so we need to make a simple device which I'll call a sliding door which can be operated from outside of the box and will allow entry and exit (or no entry/exit) to and from the rear chamber, ( something like a 1" wide tongue depressor with a rectangular door slot cut into it maybe an inch or so from one end. If the box used is 4" wide this sliding door will need to be about 7-8" wide. (The sliding door is inserted parallel to and in such a way as to physically touch the (cardboard) divider. ( I visualize the slide as you might an arrow extending from each side of the box- yes it is a bit awkward to handle but functional nonetheless). The slide is operated from the outside of the box.. When the hole in this sliding door is moved over the permanent cut hole (doorway ) between the chambers, a walkway is created. Conversely, when the two holes are out of alignment and not properly overlaid, there is no entry from one chamber to another. Once the principles of beelining are understood, it's a simple matter to construct a bee box of suitable nature. Apparently just about any shape or size will work. Experiment. My first box was made in about 15 minutes and consisted of one "hot cereal" box which is about 6"L by 4"W by 3" tall, some mostly clear plastic sheeting (4ml) (2"x2") for the window and some duct tape.. To complete the process of bee lining, you will also need sugar syrup as bait, some sort of small dish to feed the bees from, and a little patience.. Here's the method I used successfully to track two colonies in a very short two days effort:. A single bee is captured by placing the box under the foraging bee and gently closing the lid over her. She is encouraged to enter the rear compartment by first aligning the two slots opening the doorway. The rear window is uncovered ( or opened ) so light enters the rear compartment. The bee moves toward the light and will soon be seen buzzing around the window in the rear compartment. Once the bee is in the rear chamber, close the door. She is captured there by moving the door slide out of alignment with the permanent door opening. NOTE- beelining can be done with only one bee, but a few 4-5 would be preferable. Catch a second, third, fourth, etc. by the same technique. Trap in the front compartment, open the rear window for light, and open the slide for bees to gather in the lighted rear compartment. Close door and repeat for each bee... If you've followed me so far, we have one to several bees trapped in our rear chamber. Now we need to feed them.. With the door between the chambers CLOSED, open the hinged lid to the front compartment and insert a tiny container which will hold sugar syrup (I used a chunk of wax hollowed out to form a serving dish. This dish must be small enough to fit easily inside the front compartment, yet large enough to hold several eyedroppers of syrup. The bees don't seem to care what kind of dishes they are served on. Several eyedroppers full of sugar syrup might be enough to get them "running the line".. Close the hinged lid of compartment one and open the sliding door making a passageway for the bees to access the food in chamber one.. Leave the bees there for 3-5 minutes before opening. If all goes well, when you open the hinged lid on the front chamber, at least a couple of the bees will be seen bending over the dishes loading up on what must seem to be a free meal. Once a bee has loaded, she will leave, fly off to the colony and report her good news and should within 10 minutes return for a second load. Usually she brings a friend or two with her to share in her find. To make a long story short, within 20-30 minutes depending upon the distance to the hive many bees will now be loading, leaving, and returning with more friends.. At this point, you need to regularly replenish the sugar syrup source in the front chamber. Once a rousing line starts (maybe a couple of hundred bees will get involved), it becomes possible to see a general direction that the bees use when leaving. The first few trips it's very difficult to see a line because the bees are cautious when arriving and departing. After a few minutes of what appears to be confused circling, however, it becomes apparent in which general direction the bees are traveling. Once you have a general idea of direction, we are ready for move #1. Move #1 consists of first capturing as many bees as possible in the bee box and then moving the entire setup in the direction of this estimated line. To capture the bees which are now gobbling up sugar syrup like crazy from within the bee box is a simple matter of closing the hinged lid, and like before using light from the rear compartment to coax the critters into the rear chamber after which the door slide is shut behind them. Capture some more in the front chamber and repeat the process of trapping them in the rear compartment until a substantial # of bees is captured. (20-30) foraging feeding bees is enough to make a move.... Once the bees are in the rear compartment, we move up the estimated line a couple hundred yards and set up again.. This consists of refilling the syrup container in the front compartment FIRST and then shutting the hinged lid BEFORE releasing the bees from the rear compartment. The bees will now fill up and in 3-5 minutes can be allowed to fly home from this new location when you open the hinged lid.. The line will start again and this time (since we've gone in the direction of the hive we hope) things happen much quicker. The bees return quicker from each load and bring more friends each trip. It's important to keep the bees dish/container full and they will consume lots of syrup in a short while.. The point here is to again pay attention to the direction in general that the bees leave. Once they are comfortable with the new site ( a couple of minutes at most) they will pretty much "bee line" it home. Once the estimated line is established, we are ready for Moves 2,3,4 and as many as need be until the hive is located. With each move ( which should be shorter moves the closer we get to the hive) we should get closer to the actual colony and the increasing numbers of bees makes it easier to determine the "bee line". At a point in time one of 2 things will happen. First off we will simply see where the bees are flying to (most likely it will take a bit of looking even when close- just keep watching the estimated direction) OR two, the bees will do something really odd. They may seem to be going in the direction from which you just came (in which case you can be assured that you have gone past the hive) and you should go back somewhere on the line between where you last set up and this point (past the hive and too far up line)... It's confusing without a diagram I admit to build the box. I have plans for a simple bee box here as well as a short detailed description of the above, but I do not have a way to scan into the computer at this time. However, If you would be interested in getting a copy, I'll try and work something out from this end... E-Mail me for more details... Note- No self respecting bee would think to sting the hand of a generous beekeeper feeding them such wonderful sugar syrup, and there is no worry whatsoever of getting stung while "lining".. I can not believe the same case will come should you decide to rob the nest.. I think swarm traps and pheromone lures are appropriate ways to catch a swarm from and not destroy a healthy colony or tree.... ---------- > To unsubscribe, send email to Honeybee@systronix.net saying: leave bestofbee ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 11:02:36 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Albert W Needham Subject: Roy & Package Bees. Roy: Sorry to post this on the list, but I have deleted your message/address. Please give Bob a private response at: rsrolfne@atnet.net ........................................................................................................................... Albert - I've been "reading the mail" on the BEE-L, but got into your thread about bring Bees into the Pacific North West and maybe having some extra at the end, so don't know the whole story. I'm located in Moses Lake, WA and maybe could use ten kits or so. I could met you some where or come to your yard if its in WA. What would the price be? Regards, Bob Rolfness 2327 Malaga Road NE Moses Lake, WA 98837 (509) 765-4721 Voice (509) 766-7277 Fax/Data .................................................................................................................................. Thanks, Al --- Al Needham--Scituate,MA,USA--awneedham@juno.com Author Of "The HoneyBee"-- Educational Program About Honey Bees With A Superb Slide Show-Version 2.1 (c) 1997 Download From Sweden At : http://www.kuai.se/~beeman ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 09:04:05 -0700 Reply-To: allend@internode.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Allen Dick Organization: The Beekeepers Subject: Apologies MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Well, In a test of my autoresponder system, I forgot that my default reply for one of my accounts is to this list, and a file was sent here by error. Although I've used Pegasus for years, it has a number of characteristics that are hard to fathom. ***Sorry about the slip*** Since I'm writing anyhow, maybe I should mention that Best of Bee is coming along well, and that 128 people are now using it. That amounts to about 20% of the current members of the BEE-L list. There are currently several files available by request from bees@systronix.net Just send blank email with the command listed after the file description (below) in the SUBJECT line. Info on extender patties (Still in development) (SEND EXTENDER) Info on Beelining (from BEE-L) (SEND BEELINING) Blane White's notice on Formic (SEND FORMIC) Info about Best of Bee (SEND BESTOFBEE) Criteria for selection of material for Best of Bee (SEND CRITERIA) Regards Allen W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper VE6CFK RR#1, Swalwell, Alberta Canada T0M 1Y0 Internet:dicka@cuug.ab.ca & allend@internode.net Honey. Bees, & Art ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 11:12:05 -0500 Reply-To: jturner@mounet.com Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Turner Subject: Re: Apis mellifera mellifera Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > the last thing in the world I want to do is cut it down. But possibly > > I'll be able to catch a swarm with a bait hive placed nearby. > > > > Thanks, I wrote an account of a bee hunt and submitted it to Va Wildlife mag last summer, but haven't heard from them - I doubt if they are interested in publishing it. Mine is not an experts procedure; just the way a couple of guys find bee trees. We use bruised honey comb as bait in a clearing and wait a day or two and replinish - then sit and watch. The first few visitors do some spiraling before they head out so you have to watch carefully. Sometimes a flour dusting helps you keep up with them. Also, you can forget about "bee line" among the trees. It's not uncommon to see sharp flight adjustments. When you lose one, try to fix your eyes on the spot and catch sight of the next one. After you get the general direction, locate a couple more bait sites for trianglation. Don't lose faith in yourself when you approach the tree or cluster of trees and fail to see a "Pooh Bear" size opening with an antimated cloud on the trunk. Most likely the entrance could even be the end of a stubby branch with all activity hidden by distance and/or tree parts. For this reason, the best time to hunt is on a warmish day before or after foliation. You can watch a watering hole (that's how my wife finds me). I see no problem in cutting an old tree when there's proper permission and has not been previously claimed by another hunter. The plethadont salamander need the rotting wood as much as the piliated woodpecker and the bees could use the care and protection. Now, the cutting and retrieval is another story. Jack Turner Wise, VA ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 08:18:11 -0800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Roy Nettlebeck Subject: Re: Where to get package bees for mid-April shipment In-Reply-To: <19970216.185049.3334.4.awneedham@juno.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Sun, 16 Feb 1997, Albert W Needham wrote: > > If I was on the east coast , I could fix you up.I have about 100 > > extra packages I'm bringing up to Washington. > > Well Roy, why don't you just start heading east if you aren't able > to dump them all in Washington? > > Announce your route on BEE-L. Have anyone interested stand by > the side of the road waving their head net. > > You probably will sell the last package before you get to the eastern > end > of Montana. > Hi Al, I was a little reluctant to post my problem. Too many packages is a nice problem.I will not head east with them , but I can vision people waving there bee veils to flag me down. I will be driving up interstate 5 to Tacoma then West close to Bremerton.I have had some E-mail about the bees. I will get back direct E-mail. I will not cancel out the extra 100 packages for 2 weeks. Last year in the spring , it looked very bleak. I lost 50 of 80 hives and the 30 left did not look great.With gathering info from the BEE-L and changing a few things that I did in the past, my bees look great this year. I had 3 feet of snow on them a month ago and now its up to the 50's F and the bees are bringing in pollen.It is wonderful to stand in a bee yard , with the bees flying all around you. Best Regards Roy ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 09:24:07 -0700 Reply-To: allend@internode.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Allen Dick Organization: The Beekeepers Subject: Re: New vs Old Comments: To: Tim_Sterrett@westtown.edu In-Reply-To: <53055.46520252@westtown.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT > >I'd like to add several hives and wonder what experience people have had > >buying used equipment. Where do you find it? Are there any risks? Or > >would I be better off getting the table saw out and doing the work with > >new materials? How about processing equipment? Anyone have any war > >stories to share? > The risk of using old equipment is the chance of infecting > bees with American Foulbrood. Foulbrood spores can survive in old bee > equipment. But Terramycin treatments can hold foulbrood in check. Serious AFB can be seen by an experienced eye. An inspector is the best bet to look over any aquisition -- before you buy. In order to see scale, the frame must be viwed with strong light behind you. Stong sunlight is fine, but the frame must be held precisely so that the light goes to the *bottom* of the cell. You must look into each cell for what appears to be coarse place paint coating the bottom surface and end of the cell. AFB scale does not remove easily with a toothpick, as does the residue from larvae that have died of other causes. Don't confuse scale -- which is thin and flat -- with pollen which is a plug of dense material that half fills the cell. If there are only one or two cells of scale, it is a hard call and is not too serious -- if you plan to medivcate faithfully. However if the hive is 'polluted', there will be many, many scales, and the frame should be discarded. This equipment passed over, unless you are sure that you are methodical and will medicate very faithfully after discarding all frames with more than one or two scales (which you should manually remove yourself). > Making bee boxes is not difficult if the wood is available. Making bee > boxes of the exact dimensions that will reduce the amount of burr comb > the bees will build is more of a challenge. Making frames involves too > many cuts to be attractive to me. And it is precision work. > Extractors are expensive to buy new and they are of no use to > people who end up with no bees. Lucky beekeepers can make a deal for > future deliveries of honey in exchange for a used extractor. Or take your frames to a neighbouring beekeeper and have them extracted in exchange for a small percentage of the honey. Com honey production is an alternative. It requires no extracting. > How to find used equipment: drop the word to all of your > acquaintances that you are interested in old bee equipment. Many people > have dropped out of beekeeping in recent years because the arrival of > mites made more management necessary. Join your local bee club. It will be the wisest thing you ever did. But make sure the people whose advice you follow are themselves respected and successful and conservative -- at first at least. Every club has some people who are 'creative', meaning they do *everything* differently. If you meet one of the latter, I'd advise listening, but don't follow. FWIW Regards Allen W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper VE6CFK RR#1, Swalwell, Alberta Canada T0M 1Y0 Internet:dicka@cuug.ab.ca & allend@internode.net Honey. Bees, & Art ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 11:54:57 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "W. C. Uhlman" Subject: Re: Where to get package bees for mid-April shipment Was about to order a two pound package of bees by mail when I was reading your reply to another query. Are you in the Seattle area and are you interested in a customer? ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 11:56:34 -0800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Vince Coppola Subject: Re: brood frame spacing MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ian Watson wrote: > I have been following this thread for the last few days, and while many > interesting and logical points have been made about using 9 frames in the > brood box, I have one reservation which I don't believe has been mentioned > yet. This is the fact that there will be 10 % less space for the queen to > lay, and consequently 10 % less bees, which seems to me to be NOT what The queen could never lay in 100% of the avalable cells. There are many more important factors tha determine how many eggs she lays- time of year, honey flow, pollen available, temperature, cluster size, and beed of bee. Of course a brood nest with less space will plug out sooner than a large one, but is the brood nest really 10% smaller? With nine frame spacing the cells will be drawn deeper and hold more honey. I don't know what the relative capacity of 9 or 10 frames is but would guess its between 90 and 100%, probably more like 93-97%. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 12:28:05 -0500 Reply-To: beeworks@muskoka.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: David Eyre Organization: The Beeworks Subject: Re: timing of packages In-Reply-To: <199702150722.BAA00686@dfw-ix11.ix.netcom.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT On 15 Feb 97 at 2:28, Jack & Susan Griffes wrote: - timing of packages > "A swarm in May is worth a load of hay. > A swarm in June is worth a silver spoon. > A swarm in July isn't worth a fly." Only if you are hoping for a crop this first year!! Most bee keepers can't get beyond some of these old wives tales and become hide bound by their implications. We start nucs quite late and they still are big enough to get through the first winter. The reason I point this out? It is usually possible to obtain nucs etc later when the spring furore has died down! > already laying - she likely has her own bees emerging and is past the stage > of early supersedure (the 3 frame syndrome) as well. Could someone please give a bit more information on this 3 frame syndrome? First I have heard about it, as I certainly don't suffer from it! ********************************************************* The Bee Works, 9 Progress Drive Unit 2, Orillia, Ontario, Canada. L3V 6H1 David Eyre, Owner. Phone/Fax 705 326 7171 Dealers for E.H.Thorne & B.J.Sherriff UK http://www.muskoka.net/~beeworks ********************************************************* ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 12:28:06 -0500 Reply-To: beeworks@muskoka.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: David Eyre Organization: The Beeworks Subject: Re: frame spacing In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT On 15 Feb 97 at 12:21, Joel W. Govostes wrote: Re: frame spacing > As noted in my previous message, the manner of spacing 9 frames in a brood > box is different. They are nearly as close together as if you had all 10 > frames, and space is left over at the sides. The first thing my bees would do under these circumstances would be to fill it with brace comb. I agree with Ian Watson! Why reduce the brood space by 10%, we need more space not less. Up here our queens will have brood in all 16 frames of a double brood 20 frame hive( the other 4 will have stores). Then she has been seen laying in the first super above without a queen excluder! Bees are like fish, 'they grow to the size of the pond' Keep fish in a small pond, they stay small, keep bees in small hive they stay small. The only reason for a 9 frame instead 10 is to make it easier for the keeper. I agree you need one frame less if you're a big operator. But even here I question the economics. More bees, more honey pure and simple. ********************************************************* The Bee Works, 9 Progress Drive Unit 2, Orillia, Ontario, Canada. L3V 6H1 David Eyre, Owner. Phone/Fax 705 326 7171 Dealers for E.H.Thorne & B.J.Sherriff UK http://www.muskoka.net/~beeworks ********************************************************* ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 12:28:06 -0500 Reply-To: beeworks@muskoka.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: David Eyre Organization: The Beeworks Subject: Re: Duragilt and Pierco In-Reply-To: <3306828B.4638@epix.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT On 15 Feb 97 at 19:44, Vince Coppola wrote: Re: Duragilt and Pierco > Thats what I thought untill I got some bees from Rossman in GA. > In general, these bees are very good at comb building and especially > comb repair. I was quite surprised to see them reconstructing very nice > worker cells over bare spots on Duraguilt. I've had Duraguilt in my > operation for years and have never seen this before. Just another > example of the many charcteristics that are possible to find in our > bees. I have made this very point many times over the last few years. Unless the breeders take the time to evaluate their breeder mothers then stock will not improve. Over the years I have had vicious bees, not just nasty. I have had bees that just would not draw foundation, and big hives that produced enormous amounts of brood, but no honey. Only by careful selection can we get all the charateristics that we need. It sounds as if Rossman are doing a good job!! ********************************************************* The Bee Works, 9 Progress Drive Unit 2, Orillia, Ontario, Canada. L3V 6H1 David Eyre, Owner. Phone/Fax 705 326 7171 Dealers for E.H.Thorne & B.J.Sherriff UK http://www.muskoka.net/~beeworks ********************************************************* ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 15:07:08 -0600 Reply-To: dvisrael@earthlink.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Worker Bee Subject: Honey Bee Promotions MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Bee-L friends, I have a very good friend(my daughter) that works in the promotions department of a national fast food chain. I talked to her today about using honey bees in a promotion. She is very receptive to the idea but is booked up for 97. I really think it would benefit everyone that relies on honey bees in their everyday lives plus it would put honey bee toys, posters ect in the hands of the very young. She is going to address the idea to her staff for inclusion to the 98 schedule. Would like to have comments and ideas. Don ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 14:21:00 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "William J. Morrison" Subject: Water for obs. hive MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT I installed an observation hive late last summer in our university biology department building. The hive consists of three deep frames. The air it the building is extremely dry during the heating season, so I reasoned that the bees might need water. They have been taking about 20 ml per day from an inverted bottle inserted in one of the top vent holes which are covered with wire screening. I feel that the excellent condition of this colony is partly due to the water supplied to them. Now I am wondering how an overwintering colony of honey bees keeps from dehydrating in nature. Do they recycle condensed water from the combs surrounding the cluster? Anyone have any thoughts? Bill Morrison Dept of Biology Shippensburg Univ Shippensburg, Pennsylvania USA (Southcentral Pennsylvania) ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 09:33:01 +1000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Chris Allen Subject: Keeping ants away Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" A month or 2 ago there was some discussion about how to keep ants away from hives. At the time, I said I had a friend who had this problem in western NSW who had worked out an effective solution. I tracked him down last night and got some details. The ants out there can easily destroy a colony. He keeps his hives on a stand about 300mm of the ground. The stand is a plank of timber long enough to support 4 or more hives. The stand is supported at each end by a steel trestle similar to the type used by plumbers on construction sites. Each of the four legs is smeared with a "brew" that stops the ants from crawling up the legs. The brew is basically a 50:50 mix of axle grease and sump oil. Sump oil on its own would apparently stop the ants while it is fresh. However it quickly drains away the ants can cross it again. Axle grease on its own will stay in place but it is so thick, the ants can crawl across it. He mixes the 2 together (about equal proportions) until he gets a "thick cream" consistency. The brew should be too thick to drain naturally through a cheese cloth but thin enough to be squeezed through. He later added about 5% insecticide the brew. The bees don't like the smell of this brew so when he smears the brew on the legs they are inclined to give him, a hard time. Once it is on, they get used to it. The main problem with this system is dust. The dust will stick to the brew and build up enough to allow the ants to cross the barrier again. Consequently he has to periodically "reapply" the brew to the legs. He has recently tried a new system which seams to be working well. He puts the foot of each leg in a bath of sump oil. The oil does not dry out but it can be washed away in heavy rain. To keep the rain off he cuts an annulus of rubber from old inner tubes. The inside diameter of the annulus is a little smaller than the pipe that makes up the leg and the outer diameter is wider than the tins he used to make the bath of oil. The legs are pushed through the hole and the rubber is pushed about half way up the leg. The foot of the leg is placed in the bath of oil and then the rubber is pulled down to a level just above (but not touching) the oil bath. In this position, the rubber acts like an umbrella for the oil bath. It keeps the rain (and dust/sunshine) away from the oil which never dries out and is no longer washed away (or choked with dust). At this stage he believes the new technique to be superior because there is less work involved. Regards Chris Allen ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 17:18:56 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: John Bruihler Subject: Re: Where to get package bees for mid-April shipment Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" There is a good chance that I will have an extra 100+/- packages coming from California to SE Minnesota early April. Contact me at bruihler@means.net if you are interested. John Bruihler Rushford MN ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 18:35:28 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Albert W Needham Subject: Re: Where to get package bees for mid-April shipment On Mon, 17 Feb 1997 17:18:56 -0600 John Bruihler writes: > There is a good chance that I will have an extra 100+/- packages >coming from California to SE Minnesota early April. Contact me at >bruihler@means.net if you are interested. > >John Bruihler >Rushford MN > Roy: Since I "joshed" you about your original message, I see that has induced some folks, like John here, to advertise their extras for sale. My personal opinion is that, unless BEE-L members object to this method of "free" advertising, I think it is an especially good thing to do, particularly for hobbyists or small operations - in times like these when it appears that it will be difficult for some to obtain packages. So...unless some of you object (which is okay by the way), i would encourage others to do the same. Helps us all, in my opinion. Anyone object? Al --- Al Needham--Scituate,MA,USA--awneedham@juno.com Author Of "The HoneyBee"-- An Educational Program About Bees With A Superb Slide Show-Version 2.1 (c) 1997 Download From Sweden At : http://www.kuai.se/~beeman ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 19:02:21 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "(Thomas) (Cornick)" Subject: observation hives I have a question for obsevation hive keepers- how long can you keep the bees bottled up in the observation hive in the winter without access to the outside for cleansing flights? and how long once there is brood present. The problem with observation hives as I see it is every question you use the hive to answer fosters two new questions. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 16:25:26 -0800 Reply-To: bjhensel@metro.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: BRIAN HENSEL Subject: Re: Where to get package bees for mid-April shipment MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Albert W Needham wrote: > > On Mon, 17 Feb 1997 17:18:56 -0600 John Bruihler > writes: > > There is a good chance that I will have an extra 100+/- packages > >coming from California to SE Minnesota early April. Contact me at > >bruihler@means.net if you are interested. > > > >John Bruihler > >Rushford MN > > > > Roy: > > Since I "joshed" you about your original message, I see that has induced > some > folks, like John here, to advertise their extras for sale. > > My personal opinion is that, unless BEE-L members object to this method > of > "free" advertising, I think it is an especially good thing to do, > particularly for > hobbyists or small operations - in times like these when it appears that > it > will be difficult for some to obtain packages. > > So...unless some of you object (which is okay by the way), i would > encourage > others to do the same. Helps us all, in my opinion. > > Anyone object? > > Al > --- > Al Needham--Scituate,MA,USA--awneedham@juno.com > Author Of "The HoneyBee"-- An Educational Program About > Bees With A Superb Slide Show-Version 2.1 (c) 1997 > Download From Sweden At : http://www.kuai.se/~beeman I AGREE WITH AL NEEDHAM !!!!!!!!! I would like to see more beekeepers posting things for sale. How about a list just for beekeepers to post their goods for sale? I would think that there would be a need for such a list, but I'm sure that as more people start posting, that it would be good to keep separate from Bee-L for those beekeepers who don't want a bunch of ads filling up their email. Brian Hensel Santa Rosa, Ca. bjhensel@metro.net ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 20:31:31 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Joel W. Govostes" Subject: Re: frame spacing Comments: To: beeworks@muskoka.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" David Eyre wrote: >... > Bees are like fish, 'they grow to the size of the pond' Keep fish in a >small pond, they stay small, keep bees in small hive they stay small. > The only reason for a 9 frame instead 10 is to make it easier for the >keeper. I agree you need one frame less if you're a big operator. But even >here I question the economics. More bees, more honey pure and simple. Hiyo, Dave. Sorry but I have to disagree. Having two more combs is not going to get your queen to lay anymore than she already is, once you have given them double brood chambers. If she has moved up into the supers to lay eggs, there are probably lots of empty cells further down, from which bees have been emerging. With ideal worker combs, even an exceptional queen could keep occupied with 7 - 8 frames' worth of comb area, so having 18 vs. 20 frames in the brood area isn't going to change anything. I don't keep my bees in a small pond, either. They are all in 2 or three deep brood nests by June. At the same time, some of the locals keep their queens restricted on 9 or ten combs, only, and get better crops than I do! Location and the bees' genetic makeup certainly have a lot to do with it, too. In Britain some folks (BIBBA) have used a single brood chamber as a way to screen potential breeding stock. They look for queens which will produce a compact brood nest on (for instance) 11 British Standard frames, and which will not swarm readily. They then keep them in singles, and add supers over an excluder. Colonies thus managed CAN and evidently often do outproduce doublebrood stocks which are more prolific. If a sudden dearth should occur, the big colonies are prone to food shortages. THe idea is basically that a less prolific (while at least equally productive) stocks require a minimum of attention and a minimum of equipment, while still proving to be profitable. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 21:20:17 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Gerry Visel Subject: Re: Water for obs. hive Bill, Honey is 18 or so percent water, and often their problem is getting rid of the excess. (It freezes on the inner covers of outdoor hives if they are not ventilated at the top, and can run down the front of the inside.) I always keep a quart jar of syrup on my indoor obs hive, and the one from November just got emptied, so they must not need too much extra. They are just starting to really build up the patch of brood, and are eating more honey/pollen. Gerry and the other Visels at Visel7@juno.com Winnebago, Illinois, USA On Mon, 17 Feb 1997 14:21:00 -0500 "William J. Morrison" writes: << Now I am >wondering how an overwintering colony of honey bees keeps from >dehydrating in nature. Do they recycle condensed water from the combs >surrounding the cluster? Anyone have any thoughts? > >Bill Morrison >Dept of Biology >Shippensburg Univ >Shippensburg, Pennsylvania USA >(Southcentral Pennsylvania) > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 21:20:17 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Gerry Visel Subject: Re: observation hives Thomas, I don't know if mine have been out since November. Tomorrow is supposed to be over 50F here, so maybe they will get some flights in. You probably don't need to worry unless you start seeing dark stains on the glass or around the entrance. This indicates Nosema or dysentery, and indicates they need some Fumadil-B in their syrup. If they have been living the winter on good quality honey, and not syrup or something with starch, etc., in it, they should do fine till they can get out. Gerry and the other Visels at Visel7@juno.com Winnebago, Illinois, USA On Mon, 17 Feb 1997 19:02:21 -0500 "(Thomas) (Cornick)" writes: > I have a question for obsevation hive keepers- how long >can you keep the bees bottled up in the observation hive in >the winter without access to the outside for cleansing >flights? and how long once there is brood present. > The problem with observation hives as I see it is every >question you use the hive to answer fosters two new >questions. > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 17:51:58 -0900 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jerry Fries Subject: Package bees Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I need about 180 four pound packages,If you have a price fob point of origin my E mail is fries@servcom.com Phone is 907-349-6727. Thanks Jerry Fries ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 22:34:11 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Alden P. Marshall" Subject: Re: Herpes zoster, shingles - Apitherapy? Hi, I could send this to the originator but it may be of some interest to the B_L. Propolis cream. Make a mixture of about 40% Beeswax to about 60% olive oil. Mix over heat, put a few drops on cool surface and check consistency. Add wax or oil which ever way you want to go. Take some of this nice hard propolis or some others can be hardened in the freezer, I prefer the former. Grind in coffee grinder to a real fine powder and mix in the cream. you decide the ratio. I prefer a 20 -40% powder myself. Once you have the cream made you can thin it with oil without reheating. This stuff does wonders for lots of things. Regards, Alden Marshall B-Line Apiaries Hudson, NH 03051 Busybee9@Juno.com tel. 603-883-6764 On Wed, 12 Feb 1997 19:30:46 +0100 Karel Bokhorst writes: >---------- >> From: Gunnar Thygesen >> To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU >> Subject: Herpes zoster, shingles - Apitherapy? >> Date: dinsdag 11 februari 1997 15:14 >> > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 20:56:49 -0800 Reply-To: mwr@hotcity.com Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Michael Reddell Subject: Re: New vs Old MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I run a 4-H beekeeping project and have had very good success with "used" woodenware. Sometimes you find used equipment that isn't really even used. It seems like there's always someone with a stack of new or nearly new boxes who's getting out of the business. Last year we found deep boxes with newly assembled frames for $5 each. This year we found medium supers with new frames for $1.26 apeice! You have to be discriminating and patient, But it can be done. We drove around looking at junk for a while to get the treasures we've found. Last year we found them in a want ad in the local paper. This year it was a hot tip from another beekeeper and a 4 hour round trip. Michael Reddell mwr@hotcity.com http://www.hotcity.com/~mwr ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 21:34:22 -0800 Reply-To: mwr@hotcity.com Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Michael Reddell Subject: Re: Where to get package bees for mid-April shipment MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I agree with Brian. A seperate list for 'want-ads' would help keep volume down on the Bee List. -- Michael Reddell mwr@hotcity.com http://www.hotcity.com/~mwr ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 00:01:37 -0600 Reply-To: neonmarv@iso.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Marvin Walker Subject: ROSS ROUNDS? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I am filling the ross round frames with white rings. They seem real tight. I am wondering if the can be so tight that you destroy the comb as you remove them from the frames. Has this been a problem? Marvin Walker Springdale, Arkansas --=20 MZ=90 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 05:41:00 GMT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Andy Nachbaur Organization: WILD BEE'S BBS (209) 826-8107 LOS BANOS, CA Subject: Bees Killed in California forwarded to you from beekeeping news group. ---------------------------------------- NOTES FROM CALIFORNIA 2/19/97 Un confirmed report of two semi loads (900 hives) of bees from Texas heading for the almond bloom were reported to have been gassed by regulatory authorities because Fire Ants were found infesting the pallets the beehives were sitting on. Another report on the accident that made the news in Southern California when it shut down one of the freeways for several hours. The truck driver is recovering, not so lucky for the 450 hives of bees which were pushed off the freeway and burned according to reports received this office. Interesting to note that the owner of these bees which were being transported to the almonds has turned down the insurance company offer of $85.00 per hive for his loss. Does make sense to me as not only did these bees not make the $35-$40 pollination rentals beehives in this area are selling in large lots for up to $100.00 per hive on pallets. WEATHER has been cool and ideal for extending the pollination time for the almond bloom if not the best for the bees themselves. The almond bloom is close to full flower and the bees have been active part of every day doing their thing (X-rated) to the almond flowers which are expected to last until the 1st of March this year, if not a little longer. Almond growers are talking about the 1st billion $$$ crop and how the price will have to go down, sounds like they have talked with too many beekeepers, but it does look like this could be a bin buster of a crop. Bare root almond trees are being planted in record numbers no doubt to make up the price decrease by increased volume or some such theory farmers pick up at collage. Beekeepers had less then expected problems moving into the almonds, but many did get stuck and a few yards that were not washed away could not be gotten out because of wash outs or wet ground conditions. As far as I know NO almond growers went without bees this year. Feeding of bees in the orchards is continuing and queen breeders are setting up to begin grafting queen cell or have just started. The condition of the bees is variable which is normal, no abnormal reports of serious loss, or unexplained winter loss has been reported. Brood rearing has started and some brood is hatching but few drones have yet to bee seen. ttul, the OLd Drone (c) Permission is granted to freely copy this document in any form for any use. (w)Opinions are not necessarily facts. Use at own risk. --- ~ QMPro 1.53 ~ ... Some bee had stung it newly. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 02:24:34 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: MIDNITEBEE Subject: additional articles MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit http://www.cybertours.com/~midnitebee/ I have added 2 new articles to my BEELINKS page. 1) use of menthol in bee colonies 2) use of terramycin in bee colnies Midnitebee(Herb) ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 07:21:08 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Joel W. Govostes" Subject: Concensus on Mite-Trapping in Brood? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I was following the topic for a while there, but can't determine if it was laid to rest with any final conclusion. Is comb-trapping, or similarly, removal of drone brood en masse helping the mites' success, or is it indeed a valuble method for the hobbiest, if timed right? There was a lot of back and forth discussion on this but it seems to have petered out. I would still be interested in anyone's opinion and view of these methods. You can e-mail me directly or I will get the info off the BEE-L. Many thanks, Joel Govostes Freeville, NY (supposed to get up near 50 deg. F tomorrow) ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 10:53:34 +0100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Vigone Paolo Subject: Honey and Pollution Info Request Comments: To: beeList Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello everybody I'm looking for information about the car pollution effect on the honey. I got three hives in a peripheral area of a little town; it's a horticult zone whith a lot of fruit tree and acacia but 300 meters distant from a busy street :( . Ciao -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- - Gianpaolo Vigone __o vigone@ic8ud3.settimo.italtel.it - - Italtel & Siemens C. _ \<,_ Tel: +39 2 4388 9134 - - Settimo Milanese (MI) Italy (_)/ (_) Fax: +39 2 4009 7942 - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 09:14:39 +0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: George_Willy Subject: Re: Apis mellifera mellifera Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >Bee-Listers, > >Last fall I set a few partialy, filled supers out for my bees to >clean-up and noticed several nearly, black honey bees enjoying the >harvest too. During the twenty-three years I've had this hobby, I've >mail ordered and kept Carniolans, Caucasians, Midnites and Italians, but >I've never saw bees this dark. I'm wondering if it may be the Black bee >my father's generation speak of as having in their younger years. > Our local bee inspector (seventy years young himself) took a colony >of Black bees from the wall of a building which is located within two >miles from here. But within a year this swarm had breed out to the >Italians he keeps. > I don't believe the Black visitors of last fall are "kept" >bees. I live in a sparsly populated area and, that I know of, only one >other beekeeper is nearby. > It's a long shot but is it possible the Black bee or maybe just this >colony of Black bees is varroa resistant? When the varroa mite came in >a few years ago, it literally wiped out the bees my father, brother, >neighbors and I kept for decades. > My reason for posting this and question is: Does anyone know of a >realible method of tracking bees back to their tree? If I can find it, >the last thing in the world I want to do is cut it down. But possibly >I'll be able to catch a swarm with a bait hive placed nearby. > >Thanks, B lining will find the tree. E-mail me personally and I'll help you out. george George & Lorraine Willy The Village Inn of East Burke Box 186 East Burke, Vermont 05832 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 08:30:54 -0700 Reply-To: allend@internode.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Allen Dick Organization: The Beekeepers Subject: Advertising List In-Reply-To: <13023854000208@systronix.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT > I agree with Brian. A seperate list for 'want-ads' would help keep > volume down on the Bee List. I have a advertising board set up and ready to go, but my ISP has been having trouble getting the script installed -- for a month now. As soon as it is running, I will advertise the address and you can use it. Actually, if you want to look at it (it does not work), you can reach it from one of my home pages (below). Regards Allen W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper VE6CFK RR#1, Swalwell, Alberta Canada T0M 1Y0 Internet:dicka@cuug.ab.ca & allend@internode.net Honey. Bees, & Art ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 09:05:51 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Victor M.Kroenke" Subject: Re: Honey and Pollution Info Request MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Vigone Paolo wrote: > > Hello everybody > > I'm looking for information about the car pollution effect on the > honey. I got three hives in a peripheral area of a little town; > it's a horticult zone whith a lot of fruit tree and acacia but > 300 meters distant from a busy street :( . > > Ciao > -- I am not sure if pollution is a problem but if your bees are flying low across the road with fast moving traffic they may become spots on the windshield. Vic Kansas USA ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 09:16:37 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jerry J Bromenshenk Subject: Re: Honey and Pollution Info Request In-Reply-To: <3309C54F.6231@sound.net> from "Victor M.Kroenke" at Feb 18, 97 09:05:51 am MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi: Vic may be right - bees splattered on windshields can be a problem. However, we have documented that levels of lead in or on forager bees not only is higher in colonies near busy roads, but that the levels change from day - to -day. For example, we saw peaks around the 4th of July and Labor Day, big holidays in the U.S. Also, tires give off cadmium. Now, before anyone panics - there is a big difference between being able to measure pollutants in or on bees, pollen, honey, etc. AND any imagined or real risk to bees or people. We and others have found that heavy metals and other pollutants can get in to honey - but the levels are likely to be much lower than the levels in the bees themselves or pollen. In addition, the levels in honey, while measurable generally are not high enough to be of concern to human health. When compared to flowering plants and vegetables, the honey usually looks a lot better than the plants (in these areas). Now, the levels in bees can get fairly high, as can the levels in pollen. So, I don't advise eating pollen (or bees) from colonies kept in heavily polluted areas. However, I would be more concerned about bees near smelters, chemical plants, and some other heavy industries, than bees near highways. Bottom line, if you live by the highway, you are already exposed to the fumes, metals, etc. from the cars every time that you take a breath. If you grow a garden, you ingest some more. If your kids play in the yard and stick their fingers in their mouth, even more exposure. So, the bit more (if any) from honey will only be a small part. I'd be a bit more cautious about pollen, if the traffic is really heavy. Lead and cadmium tend to get in to the hive in a particulate form that is deposited onto plants and bees from with the dust in the air. As such, we have seen levels of these chemicals in or on pollen at concentrations several fold higher than in honey. I envision pollen as a "sticky lollipop" that gets coated with the junk, whereas the necataries are likely to be less exposed to chemicals drifting out of the air. All of this ignores plant uptake from soil into nectar or pollen, but our experience is that the fallout from the air is more important. Finally, you will also find things like napthaline in your hives. But again, remember the distinction between measurable and effects, presence does not equal effect. At some levels, pollutants do harm bees and people. However, very few of us live in "pristine" environments. So, we have to use common sense. Beyond that, the only way to really know is to analyze the honey, pollen, and bees. If your bees appear to be healthy and thrive, I wouldn't worry. If you can't keep them alive, or if you see lots of patchy brood (and you have medicated and treated for mites), I'd suggest moving the bees to another location. If they recover, I'd find a new place to live. Cheers Jerry Bromenshenk ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 11:44:50 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Humphrys Subject: Bee Article in Wall Street Journal Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Check out the front page of the 2/13 issue of The Wall Street Journal. They profile migrant beekeepers and detail the challenges many are currently facing. Michael Humphrys Wellesley, MA humphrys@edc.org ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 16 Feb 1997 11:01:54 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Dave Green, Eastern Pollinator Newsletter" Subject: Re: Brood Frame Spacing In a message dated 97-02-16 07:48:31 EST, jwg6@cornell.edu (Joel W. Govostes) writes: << Not to beat a dead horse, but hope the frame-spacing info is helpful to some of the bee crowd out there. >> I wasn't going to join this fray, either. But......recognizing the newbies in the group....... One of the key arguements against 9 frames or less in the brood chamber comes into play if you move bees. Bouncing across a field on the back of the truck, a nine frame hive that is not well glued by the bees will beat them to death, sometimes with the loss of the queen. If you are moving hives regularly for pollination or different nectar sources, you'd better be aware of this point. Pollinator@aol.com Dave Green, PO Box 1200, Hemingway, SC 29554 (Dave & Jan's Pollination Service, Pot o'Gold Honey Co.) Pollination for lay people, students, teachers ....Of bees, beekeepers, and food http://users.aol.com/queenbjan/primbees.htm Pollination for the pros - those involved in doing it: Practical Pollination Home Page Dave & Janice Green http://users.aol.com/pollinator/polpage1.html Jan's Sweetness and Light Varietal Honeys and Gift Sets http://users.aol.com/SweetnessL/sweetlit.htm ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 16 Feb 1997 16:29:14 -0800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: jtallack@IX.NETCOM.COM Subject: Use of Moldy Comb MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello Bee-Liners, I've been a hobbyist beekeeper since 1994 in Taghkanic, NY (Columbia Co., latitude 42). On the first warm day in March 1996 I found that my 2 hives were dead--Buckfast bees, standard Dadant hive bodies, each with 20 frames of fully built-out Duragilt foundation, completely full of honey, pollen, dead brood and dead bees. A disgusting mess--if they starved they did so in hives full of honey. My guess is the hives died early in the winter since there was no sign or sound of activity after about November 1995. Both hives had been treated with Apistan and Fumadil in accordance with instructions and had Terra patties (which they didn't seem to like); they went into the winter seemingly vigorous, well populated and healthy; nonetheless,in the absence of any other apparent cause I assume the hives were killed by Varroa or the associated virus (I found Varroa in May 1995 and treated with Apistan both then and in the fall). The hives were set up so that there was indirect ventilation from the the top as well as the entrance-reduced opening at the bottom. There was no noticeable odor nor, to my uninformed eye (but I did read the texts), any obvious sign of foulbrood or other disease. The comb and some of the dead bees, however, were largely covered with what looked like garden variety mold, much like what appears on old bread; I assume but obviously cannot be sure that the mold was a result, not a cause, of the hive death. I took the risk of using the least contaminated comb together with new foundation to start new hives with package bees in May 1996. Since one of the new hives seemed weak (it came with a dead queen and had to be requeened and thus had a really late start), I combined the 2 into a single hive in August 1996 and as of my last visit a week ago (I live in NYC and keep my beehives at my weekend house) the combined hive appeared to be well-populated and thriving. I have stored the remaining contaminated foundation--honey, mold and all--over the winter in the basement (consistent 40 degrees Fahrenheit). My question is this: Would it be safe to use the remaining moldy brood foundation for my second hive of package bees arriving this Spring? Any thoughts would be appreciated. Thanks. Jeff Tallackson (jtallack@ix.netcom.com, or JTallackson@compuserve.com) Sunday, February 16, 1997 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 15:10:33 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Bill Whitson Subject: Re: BEE-L Digest - 15 Feb 1997 to 16 Feb 1997 In-Reply-To: Your message of "Mon, 17 Feb 1997 00:00:01 EST." <199702170504.AAA09439@mr-bill.cc.purdue.edu> Ken Adams, long-time Computing Center staff member and good friend to many, died of heart failure on Wednesday, January 8. Ken was 49. Ken's autobiographical sketch may be found on his home page at: http://www-rcd.cc.purdue.edu/~kla/aboutme.html In lieu of flowers the family requested memorial donations to the Heart Association or the Sugar Plains Friends Church in Thorntown, Indiana. Ken was active in bee keeping and a subscriber to the BEE-L mailing list, probably with one of the following addresses: kenneth.l.adams.1@purdue.edu kla@purdue.edu kla@cc.purdue.edu kla@ka.cc.purdue.edu Please remove Ken from your mailing list and be sure to let me know if you have any questions. Bill Whitson Assistant Director for Research Computing Purdue University Computing Center ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 10:09:12 +0000 Reply-To: progrope@iafrica.com Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Chris van Zyl Subject: Re: Keeping ants away Comments: To: Chris Allen MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT I have recently discovered small ants in the wood of my hives. Is there any relatively easy way to remedy the situation? The do not seem to be a problem to the bees, but maybe I have not seen the damage they are causing!! I am in South Africa with a hot climate - the honey flow lasts about 6 months in our area. Regards Chris Chris van Zyl Progro Consultancy - Port Elizabeth - South Africa ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 14:48:24 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Stan Sandler Subject: Re: Use of Moldy Comb Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > My question is this: Would it be safe to use the remaining moldy brood >foundation for my second hive of package bees arriving this Spring? Any >thoughts would be appreciated. Hives that die over the winter are generally pretty disgusting looking. However, when you clean the frames up a bit and give them to new bees they generally do a remarkable job of cleaning them up. It takes them energy of course and new packages should be installed on the best combs available first. Recent postings to the list have convinced me that fumigating the combs with acetic acid will be a worthwhile effort in reducing the loading of nosema spores. Regards, Stan ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 14:46:53 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Alden P. Marshall" Subject: Re: Spacing - reference correction On Sun, 16 Feb 1997 07:58:38 -0500 "Joel W. Govostes" writes: >>Vince Coppola wrote: >> >>>snip>... A few >>>years ago a beekeeper named Hoover wrote for Gleanings. > >Actually I think his name was Koover(?) -- Charles, perhaps? I don't >have >any of the Gleanings issues left around here. As I recall, he wrote >his >GLEANINGS column from California and later Hawaii. It was indeed Charles Koover. I met with this gentleman or a few hours in his Honolulu apartment. He was quitew elderly at the time, don't know if he is still living. He was unable to have an apiary at this stage in his life. However he lived in the top story and kept a cople of hives on the penthose area without the knowlegeof other tenants or the landlord. I believe he carried the honey frames down a few at a time. This was 10 or 15 years ago. Regards, Alden Marshall B-Line Apiaries Hudson, NH 03051 Busybee9@Juno.com tel. 603-883-6764 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 14:46:54 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Alden P. Marshall" Subject: Re: Water for obs. hive On Mon, 17 Feb 1997 14:21:00 -0500 "William J. Morrison" writes: >I installed an observation hive late last summer in our university >biology department building. The hive consists of three deep frames. >The >air it the building is extremely dry during the heating season, so I >reasoned that the bees might need water. They have been taking about >20 ml >per day from an inverted bottle inserted in one of the top vent holes >which >are covered with wire screening. I feel that the excellent condition >of >this colony is partly due to the water supplied to them. Now I am >wondering how an over wintering colony of honey bees keeps from >dehydrating in nature. Do they recycle condensed water from the combs >surrounding the cluster? Anyone have any thoughts? > >Bill Morrison >Dept of Biology >Shippensburg Univ >Shippensburg, Pennsylvania USA >(Southcentral Pennsylvania) > Hi Bill, Those of us up here who use Cellotex type insulation board under our covers in the winter notice clumps of bees on the condensation soaked area taking up moisture. This is one of the reasons we believe this type of insulation serves a dual purpose. The saying goes, moisture on demand not involuntary rain. Regards, Alden Marshall B-Line Apiaries Hudson, NH 03051 Busybee9@Juno.com tel. 603-883-6764 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 14:46:53 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Alden P. Marshall" Subject: Re: 9 OR 10 frame >but in the brood nest the brood comb itself will only be just so >thick. So >if you like nice pretty and straight combs with no brace comb between >them >then I would advise using 10 frames in your 10 frame brood boxes. > >Jack Griffes >Country Jack's Honeybee Farm >Horseshoeing by Jack Griffes >Ottawa Lake, MI 49267 >USA >e-mail Griffes@ix.netcom.com >Web page http://www2.netcom.com/~griffes/ I believe my bees love 9 frames in the brood chamber, attested to by the fact they have the freedom to , and do, build lots of lousy burr comb. Yep, 10 frames for me thank you. Regards, Alden Marshall B-Line Apiaries Hudson, NH 03051 Busybee9@Juno.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 14:46:53 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Alden P. Marshall" Subject: Re: Plastic Foundation On Fri, 14 Feb 1997 08:44:21 -0700 Jerry J Bromenshenk writes: >Hi: > >At the risk of having billiard balls thrown at me, I can attest that >bees >will not rebuild comb that has been taken down to a slick plastic >surface. >I have examined thousands of commercial colonies and seen lots of >frames >with previous mouse damage. The bees never fix it. In fact, it looks >like they polish the bare spot. > >Jerry Bromenshenk >The University of Montana-Missoula >jjbmail@selway.umt.edu >http://grizzly.umt.edu/biology/bees > Comb on a billard ball?? maybe, must be some source and cramped quarters. Also my experience with 'Duragilt'. Pierco is a different story. I have recycled numerous of these frames previously used for brood. I have taken down the old wax to the plastic cell wall using care not to damage the cell edges. This proves to be a tedious job and cleaning the cell bottoms, well against my better judgment I kind of left this up to the bees to take care of. The fact being that I recently introduced a few hundred Pierco frames into my operation I can't fool around carefully scraping down old wax. For those of you who haven't tried this on old brood comb you are in for an experience. The manufacturer wars against over heating, 175 deg. F. Well I went and bought myself a modest pressure washer (my excuse for something else I thought I needed some time ago). Got an old honey drum and poked some holes in it around the bottom and hung a grate inside about a foot down. I can now clean up all my frames and supers and whatever else needs it without damage to critical areas. Ain't modern technology nice? Regards Alden Marshall B-Line Apiaries Hudson, NH 03051 Busybee9@Juno.com tel. 603-883-6764 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 14:46:53 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Alden P. Marshall" Subject: Re: Frame-spacing in brood chambers Hi, In my estimation all the ventilation arguments go out the window when I look down on my top bars and see most of the space clogged with burr comb. I have torn out all my frame spacers and like it better this way. All (most) of my equipment is 6 5/8" with 9 frames (mostly) in the honey supers. eyeball spacing. I prefer the flexibility of frame and super shuffling. A perfectly great way to cycle out bad brood comb with honey in it, delegate it to the honey super for a nice frame. The bad one gets ditched after extracting. Perhaps you prefer to lug around a special super(s) with frames to swap with? Tight frame problems are realy not an issue if you remove the outer one before manipulating others. Regards, Alden Marshall B-Line Apiaries Hudson, NH 03051 Busybee9@Juno.com tel. 603-883-6764 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 15:01:56 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: SYSAM@cnsibm.albany.edu Subject: Concensus on "Mite Trapping" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT According to articles included in _New_Perspectives_On_Varroa_ available from IBRA, mite trapping via drone comb removal is an effective albiet labor intensive tool to combat varroa mites. Seems to me it's one of those methods that works well for hobbiest but not so well for commercial operations. I guess it works well for those beekeepers willing to invest the time and effort. Aaron Morris - I think, therefore I bee! ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 21:18:48 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "(Thomas) (Cornick)" Subject: Re: Frame-spacing in brood chambers Ok you ten framers- do any of you plane down the edges to make manipulation easier? ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 21:50:03 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Marilyn Pokorney <75401.1161@CompuServe.COM> Subject: Bees and slugs Hello all, I'm a new s*bscriber to this list and have been enjoying the messages. I am a freelance writer who is currently working on a article about garden slugs. Some people have problems with slugs trying to crawl into beehives. My questions are: Why? Do slugs eat dead bees? Are they trying to get to the honeycombs since slugs can be caught in traps of honey? Any information about why slugs want to get into beehives and the response of bees will be appreciated. Thanks. Marilyn in Nebraska 75401.1161@compuserve.com http://world.std.com/~marilpok ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 22:31:36 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Albert W Needham Subject: ANP Frames I had occasion this evening to go to a Bee Club meeting with a beekeeper friend of mine. I was talking to him about the recent BEE-L discussion about plastic foundation. He mentioned that just today he discovered one of his hives all dead, apparently due to an insufficient number in the cluster. They appeared okay a couple of weeks ago. Further discussion with him revealed that they were a bit weak in numbers last fall. He also stated that this was the hive in which he had a super of "ANP" foundation which was still "chuck-a-bluck" full of capped honey. ANP apparently is a German manufactured foundation with complete full plastic cells. He said all the bees do is fill them up with honey and cap the plastic cell with wax. I cannot recall this type of foundation ever being mentioned on BEE-L before. Anyone out there know of this "ANP" Plastic foundation that is manufactured with complete plastic cells? Al --- Al Needham--Scituate,MA,USA--awneedham@juno.com Author Of "The HoneyBee"-- Educational Program About Honey Bees With A Superb Slide Show-Version 2.1 (c) 1997 Download From Sweden At : http://www.kuai.se/~beeman ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 22:32:53 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Bently Durant Subject: Re: Keeping ants away MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ---------- > From: Chris van Zyl > To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU > Subject: Re: Keeping ants away > Date: Tuesday, February 18, 1997 4:09 AM > > I have recently discovered small ants in the wood of my hives. Is > there any relatively easy way to remedy the situation? > > The do not seem to be a problem to the bees, but maybe I have not > seen the damage they are causing!! > > I am in South Africa with a hot climate - the honey flow lasts about > 6 months in our area. > > Regards > > Chris > Chris van Zyl > Progro Consultancy - Port Elizabeth - South Africa ever reag the book "the ANTS" by Bert Holldobler and Edword O. Wilson NO well I cannot understand why anyone on the earth would put down a book about ants that is about 1000 12' by 10' pages long and filled with scientifc names and big words and most of all ant scetchings illistrations charts and graphs. I am shure that it will say something about them. lets see it says alot, but it is very hard to find a specifice thing. My knowlage of ants was obtained when I was a child. I would frequently get ants and put them in my numorus ant farms, but with the absence of a queen in the colonies they were gone in weeks. The once thriving farm would become a fungus garden filled with the dead bodies of my beloved ants. Of corse whith the addition of the internet to my life I was able to access beekeeping materials and swich to another social insect. Back to your problem. It sounds like you have carpenter ants. Some spiecies of carpenter ants will have speicial ants with a big head used to block up an entrance. I do not know how to get rid of these ants and keep the bees. one gess is to paint the outside of the hive with a type of paint that will seal them in. I do not know how this will help except to force them to go out through the inside. You could try to use a paint with fumes on the outside allowing you to kill the ants with minimal damage to the bees. a exen easer Idea is to cote the hive with a thick oil or greese wich ants do not like to walk in (would you). There is even a way to identify the ants listed in the book. To do this you must preserve about one hundred workers in an alcohol salution and do the same with as many queens and drones (the ones with wings) as you can. This can be very hard, and if the ants are not marching around outside it can be impossible. one more tip. call the local exterminator. If these ants are common in that area you can bet that he has some experience with them. well back to me. I'm 14 with one hive of bees and six more empty. I will be more than willing to provide you with advice on how to controle ants at any time. just mail the list or me. ...,,,...,,,~~~~~`````,,,...,,,...,,,~~~~~`````~~~~~~````` Why don't you join me in dyslexia land. A lend weair evey thimg is spelled ront. I think that I know everything because I know every thing that I learned and what I havent learned I don't know about :^) Bently Durant bently@hcn.hcnews.com ...,,,...,,,~~~~~`````,,,...,,,...,,,~~~~~`````~~~~~~````` ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 00:05:06 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ted Fischer Subject: Re: Use of Moldy Comb MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Stan Sandler wrote: > > > My question is this: Would it be safe to use the remaining moldy brood > >foundation for my second hive of package bees arriving this Spring? Any > >thoughts would be appreciated. > > Hives that die over the winter are generally pretty disgusting looking. > However, when you clean the frames up a bit and give them to new bees they > generally do a remarkable job of cleaning them up. It takes them energy of > course and new packages should be installed on the best combs available first. I would agree in general with Stan's advice. I often have frames filled with dead bees and literally covered with green mold. But honey bees are great housekeepers, and love nothing better than to take an absolute mess and beautify it. In no time at all a good colony will remove every trace of mold, dead bees and hard moldy pollen, polish the cells and make them into a perfect nursery for the new larvae to come. They will also clean up frames that mice have used for a nest, filling the chewed out comb and somehow getting rid of the nasty mouse urine odor (in this case it's good to put the mouse hole between two good combs or cross brace comb might result). The only thing that seems to discourage them is heavily webbed wax moth damaged comb - this I usually have to burn. Ted Fischer Dexter, Michigan, USA ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 01:15:53 -0600 Reply-To: dvisrael@earthlink.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Worker Bee Subject: Re: ANP Frames MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Albert W Needham wrote: > > I had occasion this evening to go to a Bee Club meeting with a beekeeper > friend of mine. > > I was talking to him about the recent BEE-L discussion about plastic > foundation. > > He mentioned that just today he discovered one of his hives all dead, > apparently due > to an insufficient number in the cluster. They appeared okay a couple of > weeks ago. > Further discussion with him revealed that they were a bit weak in numbers > last fall. > > He also stated that this was the hive in which he had a super of "ANP" > foundation > which was still "chuck-a-bluck" full of capped honey. > > ANP apparently is a German manufactured foundation with complete full > plastic > cells. He said all the bees do is fill them up with honey and cap the > plastic cell > with wax. > > I cannot recall this type of foundation ever being mentioned on BEE-L > before. > > Anyone out there know of this "ANP" Plastic foundation that is > manufactured > with complete plastic cells? Al, Don't know if it is the same stuff but there is an ad in the ABJ for fully drawn plastic comb. Perma Comb Systems, Woodland Hill, CA Phone (818)224-2191 Don ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 01:37:36 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Harry Sweet Subject: Re: ANP Frames In a message dated 97-02-18 22:34:08 EST, you write: << Anyone out there know of this "ANP" Plastic foundation that is manufactured with complete plastic cells? >> Isn't that the one that has narrow necked cells? Supposed to deter mites as I recall. I got an add for it somewhere. Okay.. I have a question: Is plasticell ( fits in a wood frame ) the same as permadent, snap-in, etc ? Any synonyms for Pierco ( the frame & foundation that's all plastic)? Who's got the lowest wholesale prices for plasticell? Looking for 8 3/8" @ approx 80 cents 5 1/5 @ approx 70 cents Harry Sweet Sunny N. California ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 17:37:00 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Dung Nguyen Subject: Re: Concensus on Mite-Trapping in Brood? On Tue, 18 Feb 1997 07:21:08 -0500, Joel W. Govostes wrote:> >Is comb-trapping, or similarly, removal of drone brood en masse helping the >mites' success, or is it indeed a valuble method for the hobbiest, if timed >right? There was a lot of back and forth discussion on this but it seems >to have petered out. Hello, Trapping Varroa mite by drone combs is a method to reduce mite population in the colonies. As everyone knows, Varroa prefer to reproduce in drone cells to worker cells of A.mellifera. Moreover, in drone cells, the mites have higher reproduction rate compared to that in worker cells. Therefore, a drone comb in colony will attract the mites to come and lay eggs. So, if we can rear one or two drone combs and after capping, all drone brood is removed including the mother mites and daughter mites, the mite population in those colonies will be reduced considerablly. For a single colonies, if we use one drone comb for trapping, it is good to apply two or three times. Using sharp knife we can cut off the caps of the drone cells and then beat gently the drone combs into the floor or so. All drone brood falls out automatically. There is a notice that the drone brood should be kept until they reach pupal stage as this will eas the brood removal. This method is very very popular in Vietnam where Vietnamese beekeepers apply it combining with bee management technique. I hope this info is usefull. Regards -------------------------------------------------------------------- Nguyen VanDung Int.Edu.Office University of Western Sydney, Hawkesbury Richmond, NSW, 2753, Australia Email : nguyen@hotel.uws.edu.au -------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 10:10:03 +0300 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Vladimir V. Obolonkin" Subject: Three questions from Belarus Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hi, bee-l-friends. I'm Vladimir from Minsk, Belarus (former USSR). I have few questions 1. BEE-L discutions about plastic foundation lead me to try them. Can anybody help me to recieve information about bee-equipment producers (or traders) working (or wanting to work) for eastern europe and post-soviet countries? 2. Do anybody have experience of quin-breading in conditions of hobbiest's apiary (10-20 colonies)? I'd like to have step-by-step advise. 3. What is a degree candy usage importance in spring? May be it'd easier to use syrop? Or, do anybody know a simple way of candy making. I've never hold it in hands - only heard abut it. I've returned into list after three monthes of being out. It'd be good for me to restore correspondence with everybody who wants. It's pity but I've lost all my previous correspondence including adresses (hard disk crushed). My e-mail is previos ooo@gray.isir.minsk.by yours Vladimir Obolonkin Minsk,Belarus today: sunny, -12 C, no wind bees sleep (I hope) Vladimir V. Obolonkn Minsk, Belarus ooo@gray.isir.minsk.by ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 09:50:11 GMT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: QUB Subject: Queen rearing kit systems MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Hi all.. Well, in the back pages of Am.B.J. there is an ad - 420 cells in 5 mins, thats some claim. Then there is the Jenter and cup kit systems. It looks like the traditional grafting method may be, for the serious Q breeder and perhaps amateur, a dying art. These systems offer an easy method of rearing perfect queens and you don't need to have 20/20 vision! There is also the potential for 100 per cent success. What do the Q rearing experts think of these systems when compared to grafting? What are the pros and cons? Should I/we take the plunge and invest in one of these systems? Lets give this a good airing Regards Philip Earle j.a.p.earle@qub.ac.uk ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 07:28:10 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Joel W. Govostes" Subject: Re: ANP Frames Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ANP comb or "inserts" are plastic combs with the cells already formed in the mfg process. They were advertised as a varroa control system, I think. The cells are narrower at the top than at the bottom, or something like that, and this for some reason is supposed to hamper the success of the mites. Maybe someone else could give us some details? I'm not sure if the wider cell bases are supposed to get the bees to feed the brood more food, resulting in their speedier development (??) which would frustrate the mite's reproductive timing. I remember the manufacturer or dealer had a full back-cover ad in Gleanings for some time. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 09:38:48 -0800 Reply-To: fdesjard@agr.gouv.qc.ca Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: France Desjardins Organization: MAPAQ Subject: medication in beekeeping MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I'm in search of some information. In fact, I would like to know for different products used to control diseases of bees, the permitted levels of residues (PLR) in honey and also the withdrawal time (WT) which means the interval between the last treatment of the bees and when the honey can safely be collected for food. If you have information about PRL and WT established in your country please let me know. Thank you France Desjardins ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 11:21:08 +0000 Reply-To: tvf@umich.edu Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ted Fischer Organization: The University of Michigan Subject: Re: Concensus on Mite-Trapping in Brood? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dung Nguyen wrote: > > Using > sharp knife we can cut off the caps of the drone cells and then beat gently > the drone combs into the floor or so. All drone brood falls out > automatically. There is a notice that the drone brood should be kept until > they reach pupal stage as this will eas the brood removal. This method is > very very popular in Vietnam where Vietnamese beekeepers apply it combining > with bee management technique. I hope this info is usefull. With the technique described above, I would be afraid that some mites may escape being thrown from the comb. I also think this would be an excessively messy technique, with the drone pupae being cut by the uncapping knives. Usually, the recommended procedure here (in the USA) is to put the capped drone combs in a freezer for 24 hours, then, after thawing, give it back to the colony to clean out the dead drone brood and dead mites. Ted Fischer Dexter, Michigan, USA ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 11:36:53 +0000 Reply-To: tvf@umich.edu Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ted Fischer Organization: The University of Michigan Subject: Re: Three questions from Belarus MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Vladimir V. Obolonkin wrote: > > 1. BEE-L discutions about plastic foundation lead me to try them. Can > anybody help me to recieve information about bee-equipment producers (or > traders) working (or wanting to work) for eastern europe and post-soviet > countries? > > 2. Do anybody have experience of quin-breading in conditions of hobbiest's > apiary (10-20 colonies)? I'd like to have step-by-step advise. > > 3. What is a degree candy usage importance in spring? May be it'd easier to > use syrop? Or, do anybody know a simple way of candy making. I've never hold > it in hands - only heard abut it. It's good to hear from you, Vladimir. I know nothing about questions 1 and 2, but could give some advice on #3. I think that the candy board technique is perfect for winter, but at all other times one should use syrup. I make the candy this way: 1 quart (3 lbs) corn syrup, 15 lbs granulated sugar and 1/2 teaspoon cream of tartar is added to 4 cups boiling water, stirring continuously until the temperature reaches 240F. Take from heat and cool to 180F. Then beat with electric beater about a minute or so until the solution turns a creamy white. Pour into molds to harden. I use a mold 1 inch deep and the outer dimensions of the hive so it can be turned upside down over the hive for feeding. (Sorry that all the measurements are in the English system- others will have to modify them to metric.) Ted Fischer Dexter, Michigan, USA ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 15:06:16 GMT Reply-To: Tim_Sterrett@westtown.edu Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Tim Sterrett Organization: Westtown School Subject: Re: Use of Moldy Comb Jeff Tallackson writes: > My question is this: Would it be safe to use the remaining moldy brood >foundation for my second hive of package bees arriving this Spring? Any >thoughts would be appreciated. As long as bees have not been killed by poison which might still be in the comb, yes, you can put bees on moldy combs and let the bees clean them up. Make sure you have paradichlorobenzene crystals on the comb stored at 40 degrees. Wax moths will re-cycle the comb if it is not protected by freezing weather or para crystals. Many people treat twice a year with Apistan: early in the spring and again in late summer/early autumn. Tim Tim Sterrett Westtown, (Southeastern) Pennsylvania, USA tim_sterrett@westtown.edu ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 10:21:27 -0600 Reply-To: bbirkey@interaccess.com Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Barry Birkey Organization: www.Birkey.Com Subject: Re: Three questions from Belarus MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Ted Fischer wrote: > the hive for feeding. (Sorry that all the measurements are in the Englis= h system- others will have > to modify them to metric.) 1 qt. =3D .95 liter 3 lbs. =3D 1.36 kg 15 lbs. =3D 6.8 kg 4 cups =3D .95 liter 240=BAF =3D 115.56=BAC 180=BAF =3D 82.22=BAC 1" =3D 25.4 mm Sorry, I can't help with the 1/2 teaspoon. -Barry -- = Barry Birkey West Chicago, Illinois USA bbirkey@interaccess.com http://www.birkey.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 11:33:32 -0800 Reply-To: fdesjard@agr.gouv.qc.ca Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: France Desjardins Organization: MAPAQ Subject: destroying bees MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello, I know we can use Cyanogas ( calcium cyanide ) to kill bees. What else can we use ? And do the Cyanogas is permitted in your country ? and if not why isn't it ? Thank you again France Desjardins ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 11:33:38 -0500 Reply-To: beeworks@muskoka.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: David Eyre Organization: The Beeworks Subject: Re: Queen rearing kit systems In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT On 19 Feb 97 at 9:50, QUB wrote: Queen rearing kit systems > Q breeder and perhaps amateur, a dying art. These systems offer an > easy method of rearing perfect queens and you don't need to have 20/20 > vision! There is also the potential for 100 per cent success. > What do the Q rearing experts think of these systems when compared to > grafting? > What are the pros and cons? We have tried a number of different ideas, Jentner, Cup Kit and finally ended up grafting as our preferred method. The main problems that we experienced with the kits, they can be erratic. Over the years we have had various problems. Perhaps I should explain! The kits should be placed in the breeder hive 24 hours before the queen is introduced, this will allow the workers to clean cells and for the kit to warm to brood temperature. On one occasion the bees filled it with nectar, in spite of it being in the middle of the cluster. When the queen has laid in the kit the front retaining queen excluder is removed to allow the queen access to the rest of the hive. After the eggs hatch (3 days) the workers start to feed the larvae, at which time the cell plugs are removed to the cell builder hive. On occasion the workers had removed all the eggs, and at three days the kit was empty!! If you are only making a few queens and only making nucs to take those cells when made, this perhaps is no problem. But, if as we do, you have baby nucs with mature queens waiting to be 'picked' for sale, then you have a problem. The kit has failed, you can't take queens without re-celling, otherwise they will try to raise their own, and emergency queens from baby nucs are no good! The failure of the kit under these circumstances can be a major disaster, and put your system back by almost a week. Another area we have had problems with is superscedure of our breeder mothers. It would appear that the interruption of brooding patterns starts the bees into superscedure mode. We have to also consider the extra queen handling. To use the kits the queen has to be found, and placed into the kit. In both of these cases there is the potential damage to a very valuable breeder mother, something which we can't afford to happen. As to needing 20/20 vision to graft? I use reading glasses and have arrived at two accessories which help. A pair of clip on magnifiers or better still a binocular headset, a single magnifier is no good as you need two eyes for depth perception. I once tried a single magnifier and damaged too many larvae by squashing them with the grafting tool. There is a lot of equipment on the market to assist the grafting process, it is not the problem that a lot of bee keepers think it is. In conclusion, if you only want a few queens, kits are satisfactory. If you want to make a considerable amount of queens, at a guaranteed time interval, then graft. ********************************************************* The Bee Works, 9 Progress Drive Unit 2, Orillia, Ontario, Canada. L3V 6H1 David Eyre, Owner. Phone/Fax 705 326 7171 Dealers for E.H.Thorne & B.J.Sherriff UK http://www.muskoka.net/~beeworks ********************************************************* ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 11:40:50 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ted Wout <102336.711@CompuServe.COM> Subject: Re: ANP Frames Harry Sweet wrote: >Okay.. I have a question: >Is plasticell ( fits in a wood frame ) the same as permadent, >snap-in, etc ? Permadent and Plasticell are basically the same thing. I have found that Permadent runs a little less expensive than Plasticell. This year Mann-Lake is selling something called "RiteCell" in place of Permadent. Anybody out there have any experience with it? >Who's got the lowest wholesale prices for plasticell? >Looking for 8 3/8" @ approx 80 cents > 5 1/5 @ approx 70 cents I have found that Lapp Bee Supply @ 800-321-1960 has the best price on Permadent, $.74 per 8 1/2"sheet in lots of 100. If you're looking for the best deal on Pierco frames, try Glorybee @ 800-465-7923, price per frame $1.72. I have found their price per frame as much as a dollar lower per frame when buying less than 72 at a time. Ted Wout, 3rd year beekeeper, 8 hives, adding 4 this spring Red Oak, TX ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 11:40:52 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ted Wout <102336.711@CompuServe.COM> Subject: Ross Rounds A friend just bought out the beekeeping estate of a beekeeper who is no longer with us. He got tons of equipment and started giving things away because he received so much. So I am the lucky recipient of everything I need (I think) to do Ross Rounds. I received "frames", white rings, foundation, clear plastic covers, adhesive labels that go around the finished product and four supers in which to put it all. I think I have figured out how everything goes together. I have the black plastic "frames" that hold a sheet of foundation and these white rings that go on either side of the foundation. There are pieces of wood that fit on one side of the frames in the super kind of like a follower board and springs that I assume hold the board in place. I have been told to wait until a strong honeyflow is on and put these supers on my best colonies. I figure they'll draw it out and I just collect it much like robbing supers of honey. Does anyone have experience with Ross Rounds and have any tips, especially in the management dept., for someone new to this method of getting honey? Ted Wout, 3rd year beekeeper, 8 hives, adding 4 this spring Red Oak, TX ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 18:08:30 +0100 Reply-To: beeman@kuai.se Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: P-O Gustafsson Subject: Re: Three questions from Belarus MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Vladimir V. Obolonkin wrote: > > 2. Do anybody have experience of quin-breading in conditions of hobbiest's > apiary (10-20 colonies)? I'd like to have step-by-step advise. > Hi Vladimir, I have some info on my homepage about queen rearing. Have a look at it and see if you can use it. -- Regards P-O Gustafsson, Sweden beeman@kuai.se http://www.kuai.se/~beeman/ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 12:32:26 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ed Levi Subject: Re: Herpes zoster, shingles - Apitherapy? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Alden Marshall wrote: >Propolis cream. Make a mixture of about 40% Beeswax to about 60% olive >oil. Mix over heat, put a few drops on cool surface and check >consistency. Add wax or oil which ever way you want to go. Take some of >this nice hard propolis or some others can be hardened in the freezer, I >prefer the former. Grind in coffee grinder to a real fine powder and mix >in the cream. you decide the ratio. I prefer a 20 -40% powder myself. >Once you have the cream made you can thin it with oil without reheating. >This stuff does wonders for lots of things. > Regards, >Alden Marshall Alden, 1) What things does this work on? 2) Wouldn't the propolis in the mixture stain the skin? 3) Wouldn't the proplis gum up a coffee grinder? How do you clean it afterwards? Thanks, Ed ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 13:52:26 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "(Thomas) (Cornick)" Subject: late winter early spring management I am in SE CT and today was beautiful temperatures pushing 60 degrees so I escaped from my shop and spent the midday beekeeping. All 15 of my hives have come through this far strong and only one was light enough to make me worry. All 15 hives recieved a bee pro ( pollen substitute) patty and had their bottom boards swept off. Of course no hobbiest can go into his hives without fostering a few new questions. 1 Do the hives with very clean bottom boards exhibit the kind of hygienic behavior that breeders are trying to select for? 2 Is there an advantage/disadvantage to making bottom boards with the opening in the long side (warm way) ?, as this is how the two logs I cut open with feral hives had their combs oriented. 3 When using Apistan in early spring how much brood do you wait for to use these as early as possible and still be effective? 4 As the honey flow here is mainly a fall flow with goldenrod/aster being the main source would I be better to not feed my colonies this spring and wait until the July nectar dearth to build them up with syrup? Ok trying not to be a pain in the posterior and I know this won't make the best of Bee-L but today getting out with my bees was a nice spring tonic. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 13:58:53 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: James Morton <106074.517@compuserve.com> Subject: Help on a new subject You might try contacting the Indian embassy in your country. Ask them to put you in tough with someone from their Agriculture department in India. There is a lot of silk production in India -in Kashmir particularly, I think. The same applies to the Chinese, of course. James Morton ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 17:21:55 +0000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: OAKES DAVID W Subject: Bee trees? MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT I have been reading Bee-L for some time and this is the first time I have written. I enjoy the topics and discussion. My question to those of you who have experience is this: What type of trees attract honey bees? I would appreciate it if you would use the common names of trees. I want to plant trees that attract the honey bee, but I cannot find many that do. I know that the Tulip does and I been told that Black Locust also. I have only one hive and as of yesterday it was ok. I hope to increase to a total of 4 by the end of the season. Thanks in advance for all your input. Dave-in Indiana USA oakes.d@lilly.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 14:36:12 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: SYSAM@cnsibm.albany.edu Subject: Destroying Bees MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT A method to "do in" a hive of bees, arguably humanely, gleaned from the near tundra of Minnesota is to shake the bees from the hive onto the snow in the dead of winter. DISCLAIMER: (for all the PETA folk) I have no personal experience with this practice. /Aa ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 15:25:25 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: James Morton <106074.517@compuserve.com> Subject: Accidently sent a message Sorry, I sent a personal email to the list by mistake. James Morton ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 14:47:57 -0600 Reply-To: bbirkey@interaccess.com Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Barry Birkey Organization: www.Birkey.Com Subject: Re: Bee trees? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit OAKES DAVID W wrote: > My question to those of you who have experience is this: > What type of trees attract honey bees? A good early pollen source for honeybees in the midwest is pussy willow. The few that are around here are always full of bees in early spring. -Barry -- Barry Birkey West Chicago, Illinois USA bbirkey@interaccess.com http://www.birkey.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 16:17:23 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Joe Latshaw Subject: Re: Queen rearing kit systems Philip, Grafting is not a lost art. Be careful what you read and believe about theses wonderful new queen rearing "kits". They do not always work as well as might be expected. It is often difficult to get the queen to lay in the provideded cells. There are other problems with some of the kits that make them difficult to use. It would be to your advantage to take the time and learn the art of grafting. There is a short course on queen rearing being offered this spring at th Ohio State University. Sue Cobey is in charge of the class. Good luck with grafting, Philip. Joe ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 17:19:40 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Joel W. Govostes" Subject: Re: Ross Rounds Comments: To: 102336.711@COMPUSERVE.COM Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hi Ted. Sounds like you got quite a windfall. A few things: 1. Make sure the supers are the correct depth. The comb honey supers sold by manufacturers are usually a bit too deep (maybe this has already changed). You should have about 1/4 - 3/8 clearance above the frames across the super, and 1/8 inch or so beneath the frames. If you have more, the bees will often build a lot of honey-filled burr-comb between the supers, which can be a mess when you try to harvest the supers. 2. The bees can construct and fill the combs pretty fast during a good flow. (After all, the super is only going to hold about 16-18 pounds of honey, total.) So keep an eye on them, with weekly checks anyway so you can stay ahead of the bees. I used to produce the rounds exclusively, and it worked out pretty well to add the next super when about half the sections on the hive were becoming capped over. 3. If you are in the midst of a good nectar flow, and they have made good progress on the first super of sections, you can raise it and put the next one underneath it. This can help reduce travel-staining on the capped sections, and gets the bees to occupy the newly added sections immediately. 4. There are lots of detailed and somewhat complicated methods for section comb honey, but as a beginner you don't really need to go for them. Here is what will usually work very well: The first honey super or two added are extracting supers (shallow or medium) with frames. This would usually be in May in the Northeast, for comparison. When the main/major nectar flow begins (here that's June, with its black locust and clover flows) give them a round-section super *underneath* the extracting super(s) which are already becoming filled. In this position, the bees will start work on it quickly. 5. When all but perhaps the 4 sections at the corners are completely capped, try to harvest them ASAP, so the cappings will be nice and light, for the most attractive package. Then you can place any unfinished sections into the next, newly fitted-out super, towards the center, and they will be completed for harvesting next time around. 6. It is much better to use clear covers on both sides (IMO), when it comes time to pack and label them. Some comb-honey producers put a clear cover on the best side, and an opaque one on the other side (bottom). To me this isn't nearly as interesting and attractive than a section packaged so that the customer can see both sides clearly. 7. Any sections which are only partially filled or finished can be dealt with thusly: Cut the parts containing honey out of the combs. Put these cuts in a wide-mouth jar, and pour liquid honey around them. This "chunk honey" usu. sells well. If you warm the liquid honey to about 140 degrees first, and let it cool before pouring it in, this will help retard granulation. 5. Finally, when fitting out the super, make sure the rings go in the frames the right way. I'm not sure about the Ross rings, but some of the rings from another manufactuer had little dimples on one edge, which had to be oriented right or the ring would not go into the frame right. Good luck with this -- people seem to really like the round sections; they also make great gifts. I have sold them to people making gift-baskets as a business, and they are an ideal regional product for such uses. JWG ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 00:02:19 -0000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Tony Bloor Subject: Swarms and the risk of Varroa infection MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, This is the start of my second year of beekeeping, having commenced last season with two colonies. My aim is to have increased to six hives by the autumn which I hope to achieve by obtaining swarms. The odds are that any swarms notified by the Local Authorities will be of unknown origin. However, I understand that there were a number of reported Varroa cases in the county (Staffordshire) last year, the closest being approximately ten miles away. Would it be wise to avoid this method of making increase or I am just delaying the inevitable? I would be interested to know if there are any common practices around this issue. Apologies if this has been raised before (I have a feeling it probably has!). Regards Tony ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 19:49:39 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Frederick L. Hollen" Subject: Re: Swarms and the risk of Varroa infection In-Reply-To: <199702200013.AAA15028@net1.netcentral.co.uk>; from "Tony Bloor" at Feb 20, 97 12:02 am According to Tony Bloor: > > Hi, > > This is the start of my second year of beekeeping, having commenced last > season with two colonies. My aim is to have increased to six hives by the > autumn which I hope to achieve by obtaining swarms.> > However, I understand that there were a number of reported Varroa cases in > the county (Staffordshire) last year, the closest being approximately ten > miles away. > > Would it be wise to avoid this method of making increase or I am just > delaying the inevitable? I would be interested to know if there are any > common practices around this issue. > > Regards > > Tony > Hi, Tony, Two suggestions-- First, install any swarm on new foundation. Any foulbrood they may be carrying in their honey stomachs will be destroyed as they use it to generate wax to build new comb. If they are provided with drawn comb they will store some of the honey they brought with them, also storing any disease spores. Second, after the swarm has settled in -- about a week -- treat with Apistan. Wait till they are raising brood or they might leave. A new swarm won't store any surplus honey until long after the treatment period is over, so there is no danger of contamination if you follow removal directions. This will clean up any Varroa the bees might have and give the colony a good start. If Varroa has been found within ten miles of you, you'll be dealing with it before this season is over. Might as well get ready. . . . FWIW and Good Luck Cordially, Fred ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 19:54:26 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Mike Worrell Subject: Re: Plastic Foundation This is true of Duragilt, but not Permadent. Permadent starts with a pronounced, raised, cell impression that is wax coated. I have scraped a bad comb off on several occassions after 3 years of using Permadent and the bees always will rebuild. After the bees chew off the wax coating on Duragilt all that is left is a smooth sheet of plastic. Permadent is also less labor intense to install than Duragilt as it is a rigid sheet that just snaps in the frames without the fear of damaging it. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 18:31:07 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Bently Durant Subject: equipment needs for a observation hive MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I am planning on building an observation hive. I was wanting to build a several frame hive using two bords about 2' by 2' for the sides but I don't know how I would maki indentions for the frame rest. What kind of tool that is small and cheap can do this? thank you, bently durant ...,,,...,,,~~~~~`````,,,...,,,...,,,~~~~~`````~~~~~~````` Why don't you join me in dyslexia land. A lend weair evey thimg is spelled ront. I think that I know everything because I know every thing that I learned and what I havent learned I don't know about :^) Bently Durant bently@hcn.hcnews.com ...,,,...,,,~~~~~`````,,,...,,,...,,,~~~~~`````~~~~~~````` ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 19:15:51 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Bently Durant Subject: Re: Keeping ants away MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Fire Ants. Texas those two words fit together perfectly. If he is having trouble with ants that will attack, kill, and eat ants than it is probbly fire ants. the best way to keep them away is to spread some poisoned ant food around the nest. The ants have gotten into my hives before attracted by the surger serip An even safer way to protect your hives is to use tar paper between the ground and the stand, espeically in the south cause on hot days an ant would die if he walked over the tarpaper ---------- > From: Chris Allen > To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU > Subject: Keeping ants away > Date: Monday, February 17, 1997 5:33 PM > > A month or 2 ago there was some discussion about how to keep ants away from > hives. At the time, I said I had a friend who had this problem in western > NSW who had worked out an effective solution. > > I tracked him down last night and got some details. > > The ants out there can easily destroy a colony. > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Mar 1997 19:48:22 -0800 Reply-To: dpbees@slkc.uswest.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Derk Phelps Organization: Phelps Honey Farm Subject: Yeast Pattie Receipe ? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello, I am in need of the correct ratios, receipe for the spray dryed brewers yeast corn syrup application. What type and consistency of corn syrup will work? I already have the yeast. Thanks for the Help. Derk Phelps Phelps Honey Farm dpbees@slkc.uswest.net ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 08:31:33 GMT+0100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Anthony Morgan Organization: HiST/AIN/IET Subject: Re: Beekeeping and Ski World Champs MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Hei, The Nordic Ski World Championship opens in Trondheim, Norway today. Take a look on TV -- there is a thriving beekeeping community locally! cheers Tony. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 08:28:34 UT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Garry Libby Subject: Drones in February? Any ideas on why drones were flying from both of my hives yesterday?I live in Boston,USA. Yesterday the temperature was 64 degrees F.One hive is Buckfast the other is Italian.Both seem to be healthy.This has been my first year keeping bees and this goes against everything that i've read.any suggestions would be appreciated.Thank You. Garry Libby libBEE@msn.com ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 10:32:15 GMT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: QUB Subject: Re: (Queen rearing kit systems) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII David, Thanking you for your excellent, comprehensive and constructive reply. This is the sort of non-inhibitive informative material we like to read on Bee-l. Your comments reflect what I have heard of others experiences here, in some cases the bees simply refuse to draw the comb, then again other keepeers swear by them. I suspect that the new kit *Larval Transfer Sysyem* from NZ will most likely suffer the same side effects and difficulties as it follows the same principles as Jenter and cup kit. For me grafting is no problem, 60-70 per cent for 20+ years, but new beekeepers (and old alike ;-) )see these kits and wonder, like I was, should we try them. Joe, Thanks for your reply, it was appreciated. As well as Q rearing I also practice I.I.. I'd love to get the chance to have a natter with Sue Cobey but distance and cost prevents me. If any time Sue drops into Ireland she'll get a warm and hearty wellcome. Regards Philip Earle ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 11:51:56 GMT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: QUB Subject: Re: (Queen rearing kit systems) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII David, Thankyou for your excellent, comprehensive and constructive reply. This is the sort of non-inhibitive informative material that I like to see on Bee-l. Your comments reflect what I have heard of others experiences, in some cases the bees refuse to draw comb, then again others swear by the kit methods. I suspect that the new kit *Larval Transfer System* from NZ will most likely suffer the same side effects and difficulties as it follows the same basics as Jenter and Cup kit. For me Grafting is no problem, 60-70 per cent for 20+ years, but new ( and ;-) ) keepers see these kits and wonder, like I was, should we try them. Joe, Thanks also for your comments supporting what David has said. Its good to get everyone's experiences together. I also practice I.I. and am familiar with the courses that Sue offers. Yes, I'd love to go but one small problem, distance and money! If Sue or her colleagues are reading this she is welcome to drop into the emerald isle of Ireland any time for a natter over a pint. Regards Philip Earle j.a.p.earle@qub.ac.uk ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 07:44:06 +0000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Richard Drutchas Organization: Bee Haven Honey Subject: Drones MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hey Gary, this keeping of drones is curious stuff.I to am seeing drones in Vermont and feel it must be stress related, from the mites maybe or perhaps the strips ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 07:59:30 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: James Amrine Subject: Re: Drones in February? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 08:28 AM 2/20/97 UT, you wrote: >Any ideas on why drones were flying from both of my hives yesterday?I live in >Boston,USA. Yesterday the temperature was 64 degrees F.One hive is Buckfast >the other is Italian.Both seem to be healthy.This has been my first year >keeping bees and this goes against everything that i've read.any suggestions >would be appreciated.Thank You. Garry Libby libBEE@msn.com > >---------- Gary: I also have hives producing drones in mid-winter here in Morgantown, WV (39 N). I have never seen it before-- and I have been keeping bees since 1977. I have had several reports from other beekeepers in West Virginia about drones occurring all of this winter. I have also had reports of swarms in August and September last year, which is very unusual. I wonder if some AHB genetics are starting to filter into production packages and queens? This reminds me of the "disappearing bees" we had back in the late 70's and 80's--colonies that would abscond in fall and the middle of winter. Anyone else in northern climes have drones in their hives? Sincerely, Prof. Jim Amrine Division of Plant & Soil Sciences P. O. Box 6108, West Virginia University Morgantown, WV 26506-6108 <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> <> Telephone: 304-293-6023 <> <> Fax: 304-293-2960 <> <> web: http://www.wvu.edu/~agexten/varroa.htm <> <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 07:58:55 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Bently Durant Subject: Re: Drones in February? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit could It be that a queen was being superseded? If both queens were marked you might want to check them. Also look for queen cells. you might want to requeen if that was the case cause the bees from both colonies could mean a cross bred queen ---------- > From: Garry Libby > To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU > Subject: Drones in February? > Date: Thursday, February 20, 1997 2:28 AM > > Any ideas on why drones were flying from both of my hives yesterday?I live in > Boston,USA. Yesterday the temperature was 64 degrees F.One hive is Buckfast > the other is Italian.Both seem to be healthy.This has been my first year > keeping bees and this goes against everything that i've read.any suggestions > would be appreciated.Thank You. Garry Libby libBEE@msn.com > > ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 09:03:50 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Kevin D. Parsons" <102372.624@CompuServe.COM> Subject: Re: Drones in February? Jim, I checked hives yesterday, as it was a warm day. One hive had the entrance plugged with dead bees, which turned out to be mostly drones. I keep a coarse screen (4 squares to the inch) in the entrance as a mouse guard which makes it hard for the bees to remove dead bees. I have seen drones flying from this hive throughout the winter. This hive and 2 others have young Starline queens. But, the hive with drones is much stronger than the other 2 and has plentiful winter stores. I presume that there could be a relationship between the good condition of the hive and the presence of drones. Kevin D. Parsons Pittsburgh PA USA ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 09:18:06 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Joel W. Govostes" Subject: Comb-gnawing Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Is it very common for the bees to chew away about 1/2" or more of the comb in the bottom story of a hive? I once made up some entrance-inserts of hardboard (masonite), which when inserted into the 3/4" high bottom-board entrances would reduce them to 3/8". This also provided a 3-4" "tunnel" into the hive under the lowest set of frames (something like the front portion of a slatted rack). Well, the tunnel entrances may well have discouraged gnawing of the bottom combs, but I can't be sure. In some colonies the bees built quite a bit of burr/ladder comb off the bottom of the frames, behind the tunnel portion. Eventually, the bees ended up chewing at the hardboard anyway, so within one summer there wasn't much left of the inserts. I am especially curious about this gnawing behavior as it applies to deep hives such as the Modified Commercial, Jumbo or Dadant. In many of the photos I've seen of these hives, a considerable portion of the lower brood combs is non-existant, having been chewed away by the bees. Therefore, the actual comb depth is quite a bit shorter than the frames. It doesn't seem very effective to use the extra-deep brood frames if you only end up with 9" deep combs in them. So... I wonder what others see in their hives, especially with the deep frames, and also wonder what can be done about it. Do the bees sometimes replace the missing comb? Thanks all, JWG ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 07:38:21 -0700 Reply-To: allend@internode.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Allen Dick Organization: The Beekeepers Subject: Re: Comb-gnawing In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT > Is it very common for the bees to chew away about 1/2" or more of the > comb in the bottom story of a hive? Bees do it sometimes, but around here, it is most often mice (or maybe shrews) that come and go. They a have a route and chew the bottom combs when the entrances are open and the bees are staying up due to cool weather. Regards Allen W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper VE6CFK RR#1, Swalwell, Alberta Canada T0M 1Y0 Internet:dicka@cuug.ab.ca & allend@internode.net Honey,Bees&Art ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 09:56:39 -0500 Reply-To: tvf@umich.edu Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Theodore V. Fischer" Organization: The University of Michigan Subject: Re: Bee trees? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit OAKES DAVID W wrote: > > What type of trees attract honey bees? > I would appreciate it if you would use the common names of trees. > I want to plant trees that attract the honey bee, but I cannot find many > that do. > I know that the Tulip does and I been told that Black Locust also. Both of these are good nectar sources. To this I would add the basswood (linden), which in some years yields remarkably light honey in good amounts. For pollen, very important at least in the northern US states in early spring: the pussy willow as well as other willows, various maples, elms (if you still have them), oaks, fruit trees. We have soft maples (silver maples) in our front yard and on an early spring morning the trees are literally singing with bees. A beautiful sound indeed! Ted Fischer Dexter, Michigan, USA ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 10:36:02 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Bonnie Pierson Subject: Re: Drones in February? Hello All, Yesterday in North Ridgeville, Ohio I saw drones flying. Do you think that they are left because of the abundant fall harvests ??? Bonnie Pierson 15 colonies, 3 years ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 10:43:54 -0500 Reply-To: tvf@umich.edu Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Theodore V. Fischer" Organization: The University of Michigan Subject: Re: late winter early spring management MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit (Thomas) (Cornick) wrote: > > 3 When using Apistan in early spring how much brood do you wait for to use > these as early as possible and still be effective? > > 4 As the honey flow here is mainly a fall flow with goldenrod/aster being > the main source would I be better to not feed my colonies this spring and > wait until the July nectar dearth to build them up with syrup? I have no opinion on your first and second questions, so I'll start here. #3- Apistan affects not reproductive stages but mature mites. Therefore, it seems to me that you would want to get it into the hive as soon as possible to kill mites on adult bees before they can hide in a lot of brood cells to reproduce. Remember that you also have to get it out of the hive before putting on honey supers, so again - the sooner the better. #4- I would only supplement the colony's stores with syrup if they actually need it. Some of my colonies need feeding even now, most don't. Here in SE Michigan our main honey flow lasts from early June to mid August, with a fall flow in September, so I usually don't have to feed until October, if then. But in any event, check your colonies and if they are taking stores down in summer, then feed. As soon as the flow starts up again, however, you want to pull off the syrup or you'll get it into your honey. Ted Fischer Dexter, Michigan, USA ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 08:48:01 -0700 Reply-To: allend@internode.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Allen Dick Organization: The Beekeepers Subject: Re: Drones in February? In-Reply-To: <970220103600_445641263@emout05.mail.aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Hi, saw your post and thought I'd say 'Hi'. It was nice to meet you at the ABF. Regards Allen W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper VE6CFK RR#1, Swalwell, Alberta Canada T0M 1Y0 Internet:dicka@cuug.ab.ca & allend@internode.net Honey,Bees&Art ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 11:54:30 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "" Subject: Queen Spermatheca Check For those of you who have drone-filled colonies in February, check the queen's spermatheca. If you don't know how to do this, find someone who does. Perhaps Dave Knox at Beltsville Bee Lab will check a few. I last saw large scale drone production in winter during the winter after our last bad eastern U.S. winter (77-78). Tens of thousands of queens were producing drones. Upon checking, queens had a shortage of sperm in the spermathecae. Several people trace the matter back to the conditions under which the queens were mated in the South during the cold winter. There were drones in colonies at the time of mating, but either they were not producing much sperm, a reflection of pollen shortage, or their flight was restricted. Since many queen producers remembered poor pollen supplies during mating, we concluded that there was a shortage of sperm in the otherwise healthy drones. Sperm are produced during the larval stage, and pollen is necessary then. Pollen is also needed for proper maturation of the drone as an adult. Thus, there is a two week period in which any major pollen shortage -- even a few days -- can result in substandard drones. Since there is some sperm in the drones, they queens mate and produce good colonies during the summer. They then run out of sperm (the spermatheca becomes more transparent rather than dense cream in color) and start producing a large number of drones. This may or may not be the issue. Let's hear some hive inspection reports on the ratio of worker:drone brood, quantities of each, presence of drone brood in worker cells, and spermatheca checks. Oh yes, removing the spermatheca does kill the queen. Larry Connor Wicwas Press -- ljconnor@aol.com (Ran former Dadant Starline/Midnite program from 1976-1980). ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 10:04:56 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jerry J Bromenshenk Subject: Famous People Who Keep Bees MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Hi: Beekeepers come from all kinds of backgrounds and interests. How about a list of famous people (living or dead) who keep/kept bees. Scientists, politicians, entertainment celebrities, etc.? I believe Sherlock Holmes retired to keep bees. Jerry Bromenshenk The University of Montana-Missoula jjbmail@selway.umt.edu ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 12:10:59 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Frank Humphrey Subject: Re: Drones in February? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ---------- > From: Garry Libby > To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU > Subject: Drones in February? > Date: Thursday, February 20, 1997 3:28 AM > > Any ideas on why drones were flying from both of my hives yesterday?I live in > Boston,USA. Yesterday the temperature was 64 degrees F.One hive is Buckfast > the other is Italian.Both seem to be healthy.This has been my first year > keeping bees and this goes against everything that i've read.any suggestions > would be appreciated.Thank You. Garry Libby libBEE@msn.com > > --------- Hi All I have always been told that healthy colonies rear a lot of drones early in preparation for swarming. As with any species they are simply getting ready to reproduce. Here in SE Tennessee USA, My hives are boiling with so many bees that I am watching closely to prevent starvation in the event of more cold weather. They have enough stores for a normal year but as everyone is observing, they seem to think it is spring already. I have Italians, Buckfast and Yugos and all have four to five frames of brood in their single brood chambers and are rearing drones in their supers. It was in the mid sixties last week so I was able to do a complete inspection an most of the hives. Wild plums and redbud trees started blooming this week so maybe spring is here?? Frank Humphrey beekeepr@cdc.net ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 12:23:41 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Joel W. Govostes" Subject: Re: Famous People Who Keep Bees Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I once heard that Henry Fonda became interested in bees while he was working on the movie "The Swarm" (or some other bad "killer-bee" movie). Afterwards he got some hives of his own. That's the story I got, anyway. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 12:54:02 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: SYSAM@cnsibm.albany.edu Subject: Early drones and famous beekeepers MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Larry offers an interesting hypothesis regarding excessive early drones. Poor mating conditions as he described are consistent with the type of weather experienced last spring in most of the south. Remember how late package bees were last year partly due both to large demand, but also due to the prolonged cool and wet spring of '96. Remember also the numerous reports of poor queen acceptance and quick and common supersedure. It is easy to accept the possibility that numerous early drones might be another symptom of the less than idea conditions of the spring of '96. I cannot speak about the drone status of my bees as there has not been accommodating weather to allow inspection. Tuesday and Wednesday were good days for cleansing flights in these parts (temps hit 50 dF) but I was unable to make it to the my bees. Alas, my day job got in the way! Jerry brings up an interesting threat, famous beekeepers either living or deceased. I guess Sherlock Holmes requires expanding the criterion to living or dead, real or fictional. But it's an interesting topic nonetheless! I recall that Winston Churchill kept bees, but I'm not sure if that's fact or fiction. Anyone know for sure? Aaron Morris - a NOT famous beekeeper. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 15:14:09 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Harry Sweet Subject: Re: Ross Rounds In a message dated 97-02-19 11:45:35 EST, you write: << Does anyone have experience with Ross Rounds and have any tips, especially in the management dept., for someone new to this method of getting honey? Ted Wout, 3rd year beekeeper, 8 hives, adding 4 this spring Red Oak, TX >> Hi Ted, Ross rounds are good to have. I've used them for several years. They make a good queen excluder substitute. Queens don't seem to like the RR frames. I put them over 2 hive bodies and honey supers above so the bees will want to go thru them to the existing honey above. They worked well for me even without other supers. I converted my RR's to shallows because RR's have lots of spaces for moths to hide. When harvesting I see moth eggs on the combs. Also lots of clean-up. Try out 1 or 2 & see how you like em. Harry Sweet N. california ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 15:59:24 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Harry Sweet Subject: Re: Keeping ants away << From: bently@hcn.hcnews.com (Bently Durant) Fire Ants. Texas those two words fit together perfectly. If he is having trouble with ants that will attack, kill, and eat ants than it is probbly fire ants. the best way to keep them away is to spread some poisoned ant food around the nest. The ants have gotten into my hives before attracted by the surger serip An even safer way to protect your hives is to use tar paper between the ground and the stand, espeically in the south cause on hot days an ant would die if he walked over the tarpaper >> Carefull, ant poison can also be bee poison. If you use DIAZINON within 4 meters of your hives you will also have very dead bees. Harry Sweet N. California ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 16:12:57 -0500 Reply-To: beeworks@muskoka.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: David Eyre Organization: The Beeworks Subject: Re: late winter early spring management In-Reply-To: <970219135225_-1273817660@emout09.mail.aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT On 19 Feb 97 at 13:52, (Thomas) (Cornick) wrote: late winter early spring management > 1 Do the hives with very clean bottom boards exhibit the kind of hygienic > behaviour that breeders are trying to select for? Yes. This is one of the major factors on our hive assessment list. > > 2 Is there an advantage/disadvantage to making bottom boards with the > opening in the long side (warm way) ?, as this is how the two logs I cut open > with feral hives had their combs oriented. We prefer the long side. There are a number of points why, but the main one is better wintering. You need to think about this one!! With the long side opening to the front the bees will invariably cluster opposite the entrance, in the center of the frames. There are usually more stores in the middle of the frame, than on the outer edges. But with the short side opposite the entrance the cluster can be towards the back of the box, towards the ends of the frames, just where there is less stores. In the past I have pulled in dead-outs which had starved, up against the inner cover, but with lots of stores at the front. > Ok trying not to be a pain in the posterior and I know this won't make the > best of Bee-L but today getting out with my bees was a nice spring tonic. Personally I don't care whether it makes the best of Bee-L or not, I like the exchange of information without censorship!! Has anyone else noticed how pleasantly quiet is has been on the list recently? ********************************************************* The Bee Works, 9 Progress Drive Unit 2, Orillia, Ontario, Canada. L3V 6H1 David Eyre, Owner. Phone/Fax 705 326 7171 Dealers for E.H.Thorne & B.J.Sherriff UK http://www.muskoka.net/~beeworks ********************************************************* ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 07:56:57 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: David Green Subject: Too Warm, Too Soon: Carolina Report 2-20-97 Southeastern bees are really buzzing these days, as unusually warm weather has been the order of the day. With the exception of the third week of January, there really hasn't been much winter. Maple bloom came and went in a hurry, at the change of months; perhaps it lasted 5 days, max. Two days that week were in the 70's, and one day hit 80 (Farenheit). After a brief, but modest cooldown, we are back in the 70's again and that's at the upper end at that. Pears are in full bloom. I suspect peaches are starting on early varieties, though I haven't been in peach country. Daffydils are blooming everywhere. Bees are brooding up rapidly. There is a lot of pollen coming in, though, of course, not much nectar. What concerns me is the tender state of the buds, after all this warm weather. We lost a lot of fruit last year in a similar pattern of too much winter warmth, and temeratures in the mid-teens in mid-March. And the bees were set back two to three weeks, with everyone clamoring for packages. We are going to try to even out the bees ups and downs with a lot of feeding. We received a tractor-trailer load of corn syrup yesderday morning. Yesterday afternoon we had a bunch of happy bees. Did you ever see bees smile? I'm smiling too. Besides the enjoyment of working in a T-shirt, I'm looking at nice bees, just raring to go. Gotta' make some more bees smile. May your flowers be filled with nectar! Pollinator@aol.com Dave Green, PO Box 1200, Hemingway, SC 29554 (Dave & Jan's Pollination Service, Pot o'Gold Honey Co.) Pollination for lay people, students, teachers ....Of bees, beekeepers, and food http://users.aol.com/queenbjan/primbees.htm Pollination for the pros - those involved in doing it: Practical Pollination Home Page Dave & Janice Green http://users.aol.com/pollinator/polpage1.html Jan's Sweetness and Light Varietal Honeys and Gift Sets http://users.aol.com/SweetnessL/sweetlit.htm ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 08:35:55 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: David Green Subject: Mid-April Packages/nucs Several have asked about packages. I am hesitant to mention this as we may be swamped...... We will have a LIMITED SUPPLY of bees available by mid-April. They are reasonably priced, but there are conditions: 1. The first money takes them: To accept a definite order we'll have to have a deposit of at least 50%. We'll book no more than half of what we think we can supply in a normal year. We know how screwed up things were last year. If you want to take your chances later, there may or may not be more. 2. If you want packages, you'll have to come help shake them. If weather patterns are normal, we'll start about April 1. If warm, perhaps a bit earlier; if cold, it may be a week or more later. We expect to take packages until about April 20. You buy the bees by the pound, and supply cages & syrup cans. We have syrup if you wish. You provide queens, or we'll have a limited supply. We can use selected '96 queens if you like. (I've done it myself many times. And many of them have not yet had a full season of laying anyway.) 3. If you want nucs, you get the boxes to us by mid-March. We fill them; you pick them up April 20 - May 1. Alternative: we put the nucs in disposable boxes at your cost. My policy on nucs is to have 15 or 20% over the required amount. You check: you can select from them. You and I know there are always some dingalings, especially if the queens are mating during a rainy spell. I suspect I won't have time enough to check every one. Every nuc will leave here with an Apistan strip. We're not trying to be hard-nosed on this, just realistic. We have regular pollination customers to supply, and we are going to try for more honey this year. We have a very limited labor supply, with Mom & Pop, and some temporary help. Frankly, I recommend nucs over packages. Packages will go downhill for awhile, until new brood starts hatching. Nucs will have hatching brood the day you recive them, so they will build much more rapidly. If I were in the cold Northeast, I'd sure enjoy a few days of spring in South Carolina, where spring is 4 - 6 weeks earlier. It might not be cost effective as a business expense, but a lot of folks sure like to come lay on the beach at that time. Myrtle Beach is about 45 miles, if you want to come work, while the family plays. Once loaded, though, you'll need to roll. Bees don't wait for our convenience. Pollinator@aol.com Dave Green, PO Box 1200, Hemingway, SC 29554 (Dave & Jan's Pollination Service, Pot o'Gold Honey Co.) Pollination for lay people, students, teachers ....Of bees, beekeepers, and food http://users.aol.com/queenbjan/primbees.htm Pollination for the pros - those involved in doing it: Practical Pollination Home Page Dave & Janice Green http://users.aol.com/pollinator/polpage1.html Jan's Sweetness and Light Varietal Honeys and Gift Sets http://users.aol.com/SweetnessL/sweetlit.htm ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 14:40:19 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: David Green Subject: Drones in February? Strong hives normally keep a few drones through the winter in the south. Sometimes a cold spell in late winter will mean many dead drones at the door, as bees belatedly toss them out. It isn't really even unusual for strong hives in the winter to keep some drones in the north, particularly if it is mild. The winter has been mild in the northeast. But I suspect a major difference is more observant beekeepers. In many seasons you can't even get to the hives in February in the north, and beekeepers, aware of the terrible losses, last year are getting in to check, ASAP. More care in mite treatment, more feeding = stronger hives, more apt to keep a few drones, and more watchful caretaking. Nothing freaky about that. .........And hardly evidence of African genes. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 06:58:19 GMT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Sid Pullinger Subject: Re-use of combs Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" <<<< My question is this: Would it be safe to use the remaining moldy brood foundation for my second hive of package bees arriving this Spring? Any thoughts would be appreciated.>>>>> Why take the risk for the sake of a few sheets of new foundation. Unless you are certain that Varroa killed them the cause might well be contagious. Those old combs could carry brood disease bacteria, chalk brood and nosema spores and what have you, hardly a good way to start a new colony. Scrap them. The wax can be recovered and sterilised in a solar extractor and turned into candles or whatever. Clean the frames and give them a fortnight's fumigation with acetic acid and make a fresh start. The honey has probably fermented by now so will not be fit for feeding. Your new package bees will be better employed drawing out new comb rather than cleaning up old stuff that has been in store for nearly a year. After all this time you might find that the wax moth has been at work so you won't have to decide. Incidentally, have you seen the article by Steve Taber in the January ABJ, where he points out the dangers to health from mould spores from old combs and dead bees. I think it is worth condidering. Sid P. _________________________________________________________________ Sid Pullinger Email : sidpul@aladdin.co.uk 36, Grange Rd Compuserve: 100343.1216@compuserve.com Alresford Hants SO24 9HF England ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 12:59:48 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Bill Van Roekel Subject: Re: Famous People Who Keep Bees Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sir Edmund Hillery was a beekeeper. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 18:04:38 +0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: George_Willy Subject: Honey Vinegar Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To all those on the list, Has anybody heard of, or have the recipe for honey vinegar. I have the one for wine and cider but a honey vinegar would be great, flavored with herbs being less overpowering. Thank you, George George & Lorraine Willy The Village Inn of East Burke Box 186 East Burke, Vermont 05832 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 18:04:42 +0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: George_Willy Subject: Re: Three questions from Belarus Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >Hi, bee-l-friends. > >I'm Vladimir from Minsk, Belarus (former USSR). >I have few questions > >1. BEE-L discutions about plastic foundation lead me to try them. Can >anybody help me to recieve information about bee-equipment producers (or >traders) working (or wanting to work) for eastern europe and post-soviet >countries? > >2. Do anybody have experience of quin-breading in conditions of hobbiest's >apiary (10-20 colonies)? I'd like to have step-by-step advise. > >3. What is a degree candy usage importance in spring? May be it'd easier to >use syrop? Or, do anybody know a simple way of candy making. I've never hold >it in hands - only heard abut it. > > >I've returned into list after three monthes of being out. It'd be good for >me to restore correspondence with everybody who wants. It's pity but I've >lost all my previous correspondence including adresses (hard disk crushed). > >My e-mail is previos ooo@gray.isir.minsk.by > >yours > >Vladimir Obolonkin >Minsk,Belarus today: sunny, -12 C, no wind > bees sleep (I hope) > >Vladimir V. Obolonkn >Minsk, Belarus >ooo@gray.isir.minsk.by Vladimir; Send me your address for mail and I will have several distributors send you their catalog. I have had success in raising my own queens, and find that it is not a hard process. This has been just for my own use however and have not raised them commercially. I live in a cold climate in Vermont and find that by the time my queen cells have hatched, and that I have a good supply of droans flying, that it is borderline in time for the new nuke to buildup enough stores for wintering. Special attention needs to be given these nukes in suppliment feeding and honey sharing to get them strong enough. Sometimes it is necessary to borrow bees from one hive to introduce to another to assist in buildup. I am this year going back to ordering queens because I can get a full 30-45 days jump on the summer. It is my belief that candy feeding is only done in the winter as an emergency backup. I have fed syrup all winter with success. I used to take sugar and just moisten it enough to stick together. I then would crumble chunks over the top bars. This would harden as the moisture evaporated. When the moisture laden air came up from the cluster droplets of moisture would form on the sugar. The bees would suck this up and lap at the base of the droplet. Worked fine except the bees I felt had to work to hard to get the sugar. I have a friend that lays one ply of toilet paper on the frames and poors one cup of sugar on top of the paper. The sugar hardens and the bees dispose of the paper and thesugar then becomes readily available. I have a candy recipe around here somewhere but I find it. When I do I'll send it to you. George George & Lorraine Willy The Village Inn of East Burke Box 186 East Burke, Vermont 05832 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 18:04:47 +0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: George_Willy Subject: Re: Bee trees? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >I have been reading Bee-L for some time and this is the first time I have >written. >I enjoy the topics and discussion. >My question to those of you who have experience is this: >What type of trees attract honey bees? >I would appreciate it if you would use the common names of trees. >I want to plant trees that attract the honey bee, but I cannot find many >that do. >I know that the Tulip does and I been told that Black Locust also. >I have only one hive and as of yesterday it was ok. I hope to increase to >a total of 4 by the end of the season. >Thanks in advance for all your input. >Dave-in Indiana USA >oakes.d@lilly.com David; In Vermont here are some that I know of. Basswood, Maple, Red and sugar, Black Cherry, poplar, Sumac, yellow birch, beach. Thats just about all I know of. Sugar maple is the first provider of pollin followed by red then poplar then the rest. The Black Locust is rare around here but there some and the bees love them. George George & Lorraine Willy The Village Inn of East Burke Box 186 East Burke, Vermont 05832 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 18:34:42 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Frank Humphrey Subject: Lenseed Oil on Hives MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Recently there was a post by someone using linseed oil on their hives. I got the impression that it was used on the inside of the hive as well as the outside. I would like to find out for sure as I plane to use it on some Top Bar Hives I'm building. When I took wood working in high school, many years ago, we used lenseed oil as a furniture finish. We applied it boiling hot using a small mop that we made from strips of fabric. I still have a Mahogany gun rack that I finished this way and it still looks as good as it did when I finished it. Has anyone tried this method on hives? Frank Humphrey beekeepr@cdc.net ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 18:56:09 -0800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: bartlett Subject: Re: Honey Vinegar Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Honey vinegar : mix honey and water together until the SG is 1.060. Put two layers of cheese cloth over the top and wait a year. Will be 7% acetic acid so you may want to water it down to 5% (same as vinegar in the store. Billy bee ---------- > From: George_Willy > To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU > Subject: Honey Vinegar > Date: 20 fivrier, 1997 05:04 > > To all those on the list, > Has anybody heard of, or have the recipe for honey vinegar. I have > the one for wine and cider but a honey vinegar would be great, flavored > with herbs being less overpowering. > Thank you, George > > George & Lorraine Willy > The Village Inn of East Burke > Box 186 > East Burke, Vermont > 05832 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 17:28:48 -0700 Reply-To: allend@internode.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Allen Dick Organization: The Beekeepers Subject: Re: late winter early spring management In-Reply-To: <22265676003230@systronix.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT > We prefer the long side. There are a number of points why, but the main > one is better wintering. You need to think about this one!!!! ...And then you need to run experiments *with controls* to try prove your thinking is wrong. Published experiments by Tibor Szabo from the 1980's proved 'warm way' to be inferior to the more normal way for wintering sucess -- at least at the location, under the conditions he was using. I suspect that it is difficult to generalize. There may be inter-related factors that make it superior in some circumstances and not in others. By itself, warm way was apparently not demonstrably superior, and in fact was noticably inferior. Things may be different in Muskoka from things in Beaverlodge. It is also counter-intuitive -- to me at least -- that having a 3/8" X 2" hole at the front of the top of the hive would time and again prove to be a winning plan for wintering. > Personally I don't care whether it makes the best of Bee-L or not, I like > the exchange of information without censorship!! Has anyone else noticed > how pleasantly quiet is has been on the list recently? Me too. I enjoy this list the way it is, warts and all, but there are now 129 people who have chosen to try receiving only selected and edited items. They tell me that they are happy. ...And yes, both the articles in question did make the cut, as did your excellent article on queen grafting systems, David. That article said it all; I would only add one thing: that you do not need to do the grafting yourself. Merely set up the equipment and provide the guidance. I have raised thousands of queens and guess what? I have never, to my recollection, grafted *one* larva in the process!! Kids love to do it. It's that easy. FWIW Regards Allen W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper VE6CFK RR#1, Swalwell, Alberta Canada T0M 1Y0 Internet:dicka@cuug.ab.ca & allend@internode.net Honey,Bees&Art ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 20:47:07 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Albert W Needham Subject: Long Way - Warm Way? It may seem like a *dumb question*, but what do you folks mean by "Long Way" - "Warm Way"? Thanks, Al --- Al Needham--Scituate,MA,USA--awneedham@juno.com Author Of "The HoneyBee"-- Educational Program About Honey Bees With A Superb Slide Show-Version 2.1 (c) 1997 Download From Sweden At : http://www.kuai.se/~beeman ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 21:04:04 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: David Green Subject: Re: Bee Trees? In a message dated 97-02-20 17:38:50 EST, villginn@plainfield.bypass.com (George_Willy) writes: << In Vermont here are some that I know of. Basswood, Maple, Red and sugar, Black Cherry, poplar, Sumac, yellow birch, beach. Thats just about all I know of. Sugar maple is the first provider of pollin followed by red then poplar then the rest. The Black Locust is rare around here but there some and the bees love them. >> Willow certainly could be added to the list for early pollen. Wild apples and hawthorn are common in many areas. Suburban sites may have quite a bit of catalpa and linden (European basswood). In the south we also have tupelo and red maple (swamps) and tulip poplar, holly, many kinds of oak, carolina cherry, sourwood, redgum, sumac, titi, and vitex. Some of these are major sources, some minor. A lot depends on the quantity of trees. If I had land, I'd plant vitex, as it blooms in the mid-summer, when nectar sources are scarce. Our major sources are spring bloomers, with some in late summer and fall, after a period of dearth. Pollinator@aol.com Dave Green, PO Box 1200, Hemingway, SC 29554 (Dave & Jan's Pollination Service, Pot o'Gold Honey Co.) Pollination for lay people, students, teachers ....Of bees, beekeepers, and food http://users.aol.com/queenbjan/primbees.htm Pollination for the pros - those involved in doing it: Practical Pollination Home Page Dave & Janice Green http://users.aol.com/pollinator/polpage1.html Jan's Sweetness and Light Varietal Honeys and Gift Sets http://users.aol.com/SweetnessL/sweetlit.htm ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 21:23:41 -0800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Marie E. Thorp" Subject: Hive Coatings Comments: To: Frank Humphrey MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Frank and BEE-L, I know that this subject will come up again in th future and hope that this will bee a good refferance letter. Having been bit by the bee in the late 50's I've tried a number of ways to preserve hive bodies. Over the years I have worked as a painter to the point of holding a Dade County license for 14 years. A little side bar here;"When GOD created the heavens and the earth it only took him 7 days,mostly brcause he didn't have to deal with Dade County Building and Zoning". At any rate after experiencing about every coating available from on the job leftovers,the basic three being;oil base,water base and 1 or 2 part epoxy's,I've narrowed it down to what IMO are the two best. #1.Penatrol made by "The Flood Company" Their was an article that prompted me to start using it app. 15 years ago in " Gleanings" or the "ABJ". It outperformed anything tried to that point and beyond. Application is by brush,roll or spray. Dont worry about getting it on the inside but do try to get at least three soaking,and it will soak in alot and quite well,coats on.Don't be in a hurry to use the boxes for 5 to 7 days. This is an oil based product,let them air out well and you won't be disappointed. On a rotating three year basis give them another coat. #2. Hot Parafin Usually purchased from candle mfg. companys. This way is not as time and therefore cost effective if you are a hobby beekeeper. Now the question but no,I'll let any of you out there in bee-l land determine in your own mind the dividing line between a hobby and commercial beekeeper. Needs; 1. The bottem third of a barrel 2. A stand to put it on along with a propane burner setup. 3. An outside area with plenty of circulation. I can't stress enough the highly flamable danger of this type of coating. You heat the parafin up to the point that it starts to literally starts to roll in the tank. Place the hive body in for 10 min.,pull it out and on a rotating basis let them cool from the first dipping then dip them a second time quickly for a coat on the outside. Due to the heat from the first coat the first coat will soak in to look like not having been done. This way is a bit messy in application and also in future use. All in all a good way to go,a lot of people like to do it this way. There it is,the choice is your's. The other three coating classifications that I mentioned have one major and serious drawback,they only attach themselves for a short time to the surface of the wood. Whereas either the Penatrol or Parafin soak in and become a part of the wood,a wise choice. Any questions feel free to write,hope this will help. Take Care and GBY John in Homestead ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1997 00:43:42 -0700 Reply-To: allend@internode.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Allen Dick Organization: The Beekeepers Subject: Re: Long Way - Warm Way? In-Reply-To: <02311386100068@systronix.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT > It may seem like a *dumb question*, but what do you folks mean by "Long > Way" - "Warm Way"? With rectangular Langstroth hives, we have a choice of on which side to place the bottom entrance -- and also, for wintering, the top entrance. 'Long way' is entrance on the 'side'. 'Warm way', is entrance on the 'front'. With square hives like Farrar hives (which I once ran), the distinction becomes whether the entrance leads to one comb ('side' of the hive) or the ends of several or many combs ('Normal' way). Some claim to find advantages in having the entrance on the 'side', so that the bees can hide behind the front combs in cool weather. As David pointed out, it seems very logical, however there are a number of reasons why the entrances are where they normally are. I think probably strength in floor design, and convenience for ranking in rows of hives are several. Most tests seem to confirm that long way is satisfactory, and perhaps ideal, both summer or winter. However other factors may have some effect on the decision. I've tried it both ways, and don't see a huge difference. Allen Dick VE6CFK Rural Route One, Swalwell, Alberta Canada T0M 1Y0 Internet:dicka@cuug.ab.ca & allend@internode.net Honey,Bees&Art ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1997 01:33:01 -0800 Reply-To: mwr@hotcity.com Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Michael Reddell Subject: Re: late winter early spring management MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit (Thomas) (Cornick) wrote: > 3 When using Apistan in early spring how much brood do you wait for to use > these as early as possible and still be effective? Don't wait! Varroa mites hide and breed in the brood, so the less brood there is the better your chance to knock down the mites effectively. To illustrate the point, one of the best times to treat for varroa is when you've just captured a swarm. There are no good hiding places for the mites then because there is no brood at all. I put swarms on plasticell with Apistan in used boxes and they usually thrive. Michael Reddell mwr@hotcity.com http://www.hotcity.com/~mwr ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1997 02:12:54 -0800 Reply-To: mwr@hotcity.com Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Michael Reddell Subject: Re: Re-use of combs MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sid Pullinger wrote: > > Why take the risk for the sake of a few sheets of new foundation. Unless > you are certain that Varroa killed them the cause might well be contagious. > Those old combs could carry brood disease bacteria, chalk brood and nosema > spores and what have you, hardly a good way to start a new colony. > Scrap them. The wax can be recovered and sterilised in a solar extractor > and turned into candles or whatever. Clean the frames and give them a > fortnight's fumigation with acetic acid and make a fresh start. The honey > has probably fermented by now so will not be fit for feeding. Your new > package bees will be better employed drawing out new comb rather than > cleaning up old stuff that has been in store for nearly a year. After all > this time you might find that the wax moth has been at work so you won't > have to decide. You paint a pretty grim picture. On ocasion, some of my supers get stored in a place where the moisture content is a bit too high and they end up moldy. There's no reason for me to expect disease in this case, since they didn't come from dying colonies. The bees clean them up just fine. > Incidentally, have you seen the article by Steve Taber in the January ABJ, > where he points out the dangers to health from mould spores from old combs > and dead bees. I think it is worth condidering. This is a potential problem, but I don't stir up the mold spores much just putting the boxes back on the hives. Anyway not like I would by trying to clean it up myself! And besides, that article is about the hazards of sweeping and cleaning an indoor wintering or storage location where dead bees have accumulated and molded. That has to do with how you clean up the area, not whether or not the bees get moldy comb back in the spring. Michael Reddell mwr@hotcity.com http://www.hotcity.com/~mwr ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1997 06:09:11 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Bill Miller Subject: Re: New vs Old What are the risks of buying used equipment? In two words: American foulbrood If you buy used equipment, get it fumigated by whatever means are legal in your locality. If you can't fumigate it, then only buy it if it has an active colony of bees in it with no foulbrood. Also, if you don't know what you are buying, you run the risk of getting nonstandard equipment. W. G. Miller Gaithersburg, MD ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1997 06:09:20 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Bill Miller Subject: Frame edge planing Do I plane down the edges of frames in my 10-frame colonies? No, but it is my practice to always scrape the propolis off the edges of any frames I remove. That makes putting the frames back a great deal easier. W. G. Miller Gaithersburg, MD ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1997 13:38:08 GMT Reply-To: Tim_Sterrett@westtown.edu Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Tim Sterrett Organization: Westtown School Subject: Re: Bee trees? Dave-in Indiana USA writes: Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Thomas Wiegelmann Subject: Re: Hive Coatings MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, I also use penatrol it is a base used in making paints but I do not brush it on I dip the hive bodies and supers for two minutes on each side which will give you four minutes on the corners or I will wait till the air bubbles stop coming out of the wood. Then I let them dry a few days then I paint with aluminum paint. Happy Dipping, Tom ---------- > From: Marie E. Thorp > To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU > Subject: Hive Coatings > Date: Friday, February 21, 1997 12:23 AM > > Hi Frank and BEE-L, > I know that this subject will come up again in th future and hope > that this will bee a good refferance letter. Having been bit by the bee > in the late 50's I've tried a number of ways to preserve hive bodies. > Over the years I have worked as a painter to the point of holding a Dade > County license for 14 years. A little side bar here;"When GOD created the > heavens and the earth it only took him 7 days,mostly brcause he didn't > have to deal with Dade County Building and Zoning". At any rate after > experiencing about every coating available from on the job leftovers,the > basic three being;oil base,water base and 1 or 2 part epoxy's,I've > narrowed it down to what IMO are the two best. > #1.Penatrol made by "The Flood Company" > Their was an article that prompted me to start using it > app. 15 years ago in " Gleanings" or the "ABJ". It outperformed anything > tried to that point and beyond. > Application is by brush,roll or spray. Dont worry about > getting it on the inside but do try to get at least three soaking,and it > will soak in alot and quite well,coats on.Don't be in a hurry to use the > boxes for 5 to 7 days. This is an oil based product,let them air out well > and you won't be disappointed. On a rotating three year basis give them > another coat. > #2. Hot Parafin > Usually purchased from candle mfg. companys. > This way is not as time and therefore cost effective if > you are a hobby beekeeper. Now the question but no,I'll let any of you > out there in bee-l land determine in your own mind the dividing line > between a hobby and commercial beekeeper. > Needs; 1. The bottem third of a barrel > 2. A stand to put it on along with a propane > burner setup. > 3. An outside area with plenty of circulation. > I can't stress enough the highly flamable danger of this type of > coating. > You heat the parafin up to the point that it starts to literally > starts to roll in the tank. Place the hive body in for 10 min.,pull it > out and on a rotating basis let them cool from the first dipping then dip > them a second time quickly for a coat on the outside. Due to the heat > from the first coat the first coat will soak in to look like not having > been done. This way is a bit messy in application and also in future use. > All in all a good way to go,a lot of people like to do it this way. > There it is,the choice is your's. The other three coating > classifications that I mentioned have one major and serious drawback,they > only attach themselves for a short time to the surface of the wood. > Whereas either the Penatrol or Parafin soak in and become a part > of the wood,a wise choice. > Any questions feel free to write,hope this will help. > Take Care and GBY > John in Homestead ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1997 10:07:09 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: James Amrine Subject: Re: Queen Spermatheca Check Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 11:54 AM 2/20/97 -0500, Larry Conner wrote: >For those of you who have drone-filled colonies in February, check the >queen's spermatheca. If you don't know how to do this, find someone who does. >Perhaps Dave Knox at Beltsville Bee Lab will check a few. >I last saw large scale drone production in winter during the winter after our >last bad eastern U.S. winter (77-78). Tens of thousands of queens were >producing drones. Upon checking, queens had a shortage of sperm in the >spermathecae. >Several people trace the matter back to the conditions under which the queens >were mated in the South during the cold winter. There were drones in colonies >at the time of mating, but either they were not producing much sperm, a >reflection of pollen shortage, or their flight was restricted. Since many >queen producers remembered poor pollen supplies during mating, we concluded >that there was a shortage of sperm in the otherwise healthy drones. Sperm are >produced during the larval stage, and pollen is necessary then. Pollen is >also needed for proper maturation of the drone as an adult. Thus, there is a >two week period in which any major pollen shortage -- even a few days -- can >result in substandard drones. >Since there is some sperm in the drones, they queens mate and produce good >colonies during the summer. They then run out of sperm (the spermatheca >becomes more transparent rather than dense cream in color) and start >producing a large number of drones. >This may or may not be the issue. Let's hear some hive inspection reports on >the ratio of worker:drone brood, quantities of each, presence of drone brood >in worker cells, and spermatheca checks. >Oh yes, removing the spermatheca does kill the queen. Larry: I think you are right on. My colony with the drones has about 25% worker brood in worker cells and the rest are all drones--in worker cells. So many of the drones are small sized. I will check her spermathecae when the season gets along a little more and I can reliably replace her. Thanks for the input Jim Amrine ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1997 10:27:03 -0800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Terry Avise Organization: Dadant & Sons Inc Subject: famous beekeepers MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Henry Fonda was a beekeeper as Joel pointed out. We had two small articles in the American Bee Journal about him. We also have a letter in our archives from him. Joe Graham editor of the American Bee Journal mentioned that Aristotle was a beekeeper. Also the Captain of the Lucitania decided to take up beekeeping after the Lucitania sank. Dadant & Sons Inc 51 South Second St Hamilton,Il 62341 Manufacturers and Suppliers of Beekeeping Equipment Publishers of American Bee Journal Manufacturers of Religious & Decorative Candles Phone 217-847-3324 Fax 217-847-3660 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1997 08:36:10 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jerry J Bromenshenk Subject: Re: famous beekeepers In-Reply-To: <330DE8F7.6BB6@concentric.net> from "Terry Avise" at Feb 21, 97 10:27:03 am MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Glad to confirm the Fonda story - did any of his children take up beekeeping? Wonder what it means when the Captain of a ship that sunk takes up beekeeping? Obviously, he didn't go down with the ship. Are there any younger (living) famous beekeepers out there? Any really fun examples - like a punk rocker who mellows out keeping bees? Cheers Jerry Bromenshenk ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1997 11:00:00 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Palm, Kevin R. (LLP)" Subject: Re: Famous People Who Keep Bees Hi, all!! One famous person who used to keep bees is Terry Pratchett, a British fantasy writer and author of the Discworld novels. I was reading one of his novels and in the "About the Author" blurb it said that he keeps bees. I emailed him about it because I was curious (and I actually got a response!). He stated that he kept about half a dozen hives but gave it up about ten years ago after a bad season. He thinks he may get back into it someday, though. If you read any of his novels, they usually contain some beekeeping references. It's kinda neat!! Kevin Palm ---------- From: Jerry J Bromenshenk To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU Subject: Famous People Who Keep Bees Date: Thursday, February 20, 1997 12:04PM Hi: Beekeepers come from all kinds of backgrounds and interests. How about a list of famous people (living or dead) who keep/kept bees. Scientists, politicians, entertainment celebrities, etc.? I believe Sherlock Holmes retired to keep bees. Jerry Bromenshenk The University of Montana-Missoula jjbmail@selway.umt.edu ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1997 11:08:36 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: SYSAM@cnsibm.albany.edu Subject: Beekeeping in the Fonda Family MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT It's been verified that Henry Fonda kept bees. I'm not sure if Peter Fonda keeps bees, but he just completed a film where his character was a beekeeper ("I'm not a beekeeper, but I play one on TV" ;) The details elude me, but Peter received an award (Beekeeper of the year?) in the state in which the movie was filmed (West Virginia?). I don't know for sure but I think the film has yet to be released. Details were in either "ABJ" or "Bee Culture" within the past two months. I'm in the office, my mags are at home. Will verify this weekend and confirm Monday. Aaron Morris - thinking memory is running short. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1997 11:47:00 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Palm, Kevin R. (LLP)" Subject: Re: Beekeeping in the Fonda Family Hi again, all, The film is titled, "Ulee's Gold," and stars Fonda and Patricia Richardson from "Home Improvement." His character, Ulee Jackson, was awarded Beekeeper of the Year from the Florida State Beekeepers Association. Kevin Palm Grafton, Ohio ---------- From: SYSAM@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU Subject: Beekeeping in the Fonda Family Date: Friday, February 21, 1997 11:08AM It's been verified that Henry Fonda kept bees. I'm not sure if Peter Fonda keeps bees, but he just completed a film where his character was a beekeeper ("I'm not a beekeeper, but I play one on TV" ;) The details elude me, but Peter received an award (Beekeeper of the year?) in the state in which the movie was filmed (West Virginia?). I don't know for sure but I think the film has yet to be released. Details were in either "ABJ" or "Bee Culture" within the past two months. I'm in the office, my mags are at home. Will verify this weekend and confirm Monday. Aaron Morris - thinking memory is running short. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1997 11:47:11 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Albert W Needham Subject: Re: famous beekeepers On Fri, 21 Feb 1997 08:36:10 -0700 Jerry J Bromenshenk writes: >Wonder what it means when the Captain of a ship that sunk takes up >beekeeping? Obviously, he didn't go down with the ship. It means that the "The Captain is the last to leave the ship" is a crock! Al --- Al Needham--Scituate,MA,USA--awneedham@juno.com Author Of "The HoneyBee"-- Educational Program About Honey Bees With A Superb Slide Show-Version 2.1 (c) 1997 Download From Sweden At : http://www.kuai.se/~beeman ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1997 12:12:27 -0500 Reply-To: beeworks@muskoka.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: David Eyre Organization: The Beeworks Subject: Re: Long Way - Warm Way? In-Reply-To: <19970220.204627.3358.1.awneedham@juno.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT On 20 Feb 97 at 20:47, Albert W Needham wrote: Long Way - Warm Way? > It may seem like a *dumb question*, but what do you folks mean by "Long > Way" - "Warm Way"? It really describes the position of the entrance to the run of the frames. With the entrance on the short side ie. 16 1/2" or commonly called the cold way. With the entrance on the long side ie. 20" or called the warm way. Personally I don't believe it makes much difference to temperature within the hive. Afterall the entrance is still the same size. Some of the benefits to changing? As I said yesterday, better wintering, less back problems, less ankle stings. The obvious position to manipulate a hive is from the back. With frames running the 'cold way' lifting the frames needs a twist to the back reaching to the front of the frame with one hand. While the 'warm way' it is easy to reach both ends of the frames without twisting. Of course your ankles are now hidden from incoming bees by the boxes in front of you. Less ankle stings!! Some manufacturers only put hand hold on the ends of boxes compounding the back problem. Think about it!! Any chiropracter will tell you 'it's the twist that gets you'. As to the strength of the floor, one way versus another makes no difference. The strength of the rim surrounding the floor supports the boxes, not the middle of the floor. ********************************************************* The Bee Works, 9 Progress Drive Unit 2, Orillia, Ontario, Canada. L3V 6H1 David Eyre, Owner. Phone/Fax 705 326 7171 Dealers for E.H.Thorne & B.J.Sherriff UK http://www.muskoka.net/~beeworks ********************************************************* ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1997 12:09:47 -0800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Terry Avise Organization: Dadant & Sons Inc Subject: famous beekeepers MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit As far as we know, Henry Fonda's children did not pursue the hobby. As many are aware Peter Fonda did star in the movie Ulee's Gold (I am not sure of the spelling). It was to appear in the Sundance Movie Festival. I do not know when it will be released. Peter Fonda and the producer of the movie did go to the Florida Beekeepers Association Meeting and were reported to have a good time. Terry -- Dadant & Sons Inc 51 South Second St Hamilton, Il 62341 Manufacturers and Suppliers of Beekeeping Equipment Publishers of American Bee Journal Manufacturers of Religious & Decorative Candles Phone 217-847-3324 Fax 217-847-3660 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1997 11:05:37 -0700 Reply-To: allend@internode.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Allen Dick Organization: The Beekeepers Subject: Re: Long Way - Warm Way? In-Reply-To: <199702211718.MAA22320@segwun.muskoka.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT > With the entrance on the long side ie. 20" or called the warm way. > Personally I don't believe it makes much difference to temperature within > the hive. After all the entrance is still the same size. ???? Maybe I'm missing something here, since going 'warm way', I envision the entrance to be 18.5" long, rather than 15" or so? > The obvious position to manipulate a hive is from the back. On four > packs, which are the commercial standard in western Canada this would be > impossible!!!!!!!!! Everyone I know, works the hives from the side. Seems to work fine. Has some advantages, like being able to shake bees in front, if desired. This might be difficult in close-spaced rows, but such rows are not good practice anyhow, due to drifting. > Of course your ankles are now hidden from incoming bees by the boxes in > front of you. Less ankle stings!! I usually work in sandals w/o socks, and have not noticed an ankle problem. The only guy I knew that had a huge problem wore his shoes and socks into a hog barn before work. > As to the strength of the floor, one way versus another makes no > difference. The strength of the rim surrounding the floor supports the > boxes, not the middle of the floor. On our floors -- and likely yours from what you say -- that is true since we have cleats under front and back for access for forks and carts as well as a rim on three sides; however the ordinary floors sold by bee supply houses only have a rim on *three* sides, and bee supply house equipment tends to set the standard in folks minds. Allen Dick VE6CFK Rural Route One, Swalwell, Alberta Canada T0M 1Y0 Internet:dicka@cuug.ab.ca & allend@internode.net Honey,Bees&Art ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1997 13:08:42 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: James Morton <106074.517@compuserve.com> Subject: Re: destroying bees The near universal method of destroying a diseased or problem colony here in the UK is to seal the hive at dusk and then pour about half a pint of petrol in through the feed-holes in the crown board. The combs are, of course, ruined by the petrol and have to be destroyed. Some while I got involved with a friend whose colony bees kept in a suburban garden was causing mayhem by stinging people over a wide area. He couldn't move the colony and wanted it destroyed before he suffered legal action from his neighbours. The method employed was to pour about a gallon of 2% detergent solution down through the top of the hive. Although it seems a rather crude method, it appears to be quite humane; bees wetted by dilute detergent die within a few seconds, probably as it penetrates their trachae. Combs from colonies destroyed in this way can be reused after drying. James Morton London UK ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1997 13:08:35 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: James Morton <106074.517@compuserve.com> Subject: Lenseed Oil on Hives Message text written by Discussion of Bee Biology >Recently there was a post by someone using linseed oil on their hives. I got the impression that it was used on the inside of the hive as well as the outside. I would like to find out for sure as I plane to use it on some Top Bar Hives I'm building.< I have often used linseed oil on my beehives, both alone and sometimes with the addition of white-spirit to help it penetrate the wood. Raw (unboiled) linseed oil hardens quickly in the sun, so the quicker-setting boiled linseed is not really necessary. Old weathered boxes can absorb quite a bit into the surface of the wood (which is probably a sign that they need treatment), but new wood is much less porous, and the oil does not really penetrate to the same extent. My experience is that the oil reduces the absorbtion of water by the hive and makes it look darker and more attractive - particularly in the case of the Western Red Cedar hives common here in the UK. I have my doubts whether it is a particularly effective wood preservative, however, and recently have used it in on the exterior of hives in conjunction with clear Cuprinol - a wood fungicide based on Acypetacs zinc. I know several beekeepers who are so impressed with the virtues of linseed oil that they treat the outside, inside and even the frames of their hives with it. It seems almost certain that linseed oil is very safe for bees. James Morton London UK ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1997 13:22:40 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Joel W. Govostes" Subject: 4-packs, proximity of entrances Comments: To: allend@INTERNODE.NET Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hi Allen and all. Wow, it's in the lower 60's here, windy as all get-out! Hopefully the bees are taking advantage of the thaw to reposition the clusters, as it will be back in the 20's (F) within a couple of days. Saw a reference to the 4-packs used in Western Canada. Is it basically a sturdy pallet, with two pairs of hives, facing opposite directions? I think I have seen them illustrated in the journals. My particular question involves the entrances. If you have two colonies' entrances right next to each other (hives abutting), do you block any portion of the entrances (where they are adjacent), or do you just leave them open right across? I have had bees in fairly close pairs, on stands. Basically they had about 3 inches between the hives. This was nice and compact (simple stands made of 2x4's), but I did notice that in the height of the summer, say during stormy weather or dearth, the bees would "beard" on the hive fronts and hang in large clusters off the bottom board. Nothing unusual, but upon closer inspection it would often turn out that the clusters of a pair of hives would be joined. Bees would be running back and forth, some obviously alarmed, and I occasionally did see small piles of dead bees from resultant fighting.' Is this a concern, with the pallets, as well? Could queens be killed this way? In some German photographs you can see apiaries of maybe 12 colonies all on one long stand, entrances right next to each other. There is NO space between colonies. I've often wondered if this becomes problematic. On the other hand, it is probably a good, protective arrangement for wintering. Thanks for any comments or info. Joel Govostes Freeville, NY ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1997 13:07:16 -0700 Reply-To: allend@internode.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Allen Dick Organization: The Beekeepers Subject: 4-packs, proximity of entrances In-Reply-To: <19562546800131@systronix.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT > Saw a reference to the 4-packs used in Western Canada. Is it basically a > sturdy pallet, with two pairs of hives, facing opposite directions? I > think I have seen them illustrated in the journals. Yes. The floors are either set on grocery pallets (10" X 48") or built right on the pallet. We pick them up with forklifts and tote them around. FWIW Andy told me some time back that he used to use pallets with the four hives facing *in*. You might ask him for more on this. > If you have two colonies' entrances right next to each other (hives > abutting), do you block any portion of the entrances (where they are > adjacent), or do you just leave them open right across? Leave them open right across. > I have had bees in fairly close pairs, on stands. Basically they had > about 3 inches between the hives. This was nice and compact (simple > stands made of 2x4's), but I did notice that in the height of the summer, > say during stormy weather or dearth, the bees would "beard" on the hive > fronts and hang in large clusters off the bottom board. Nothing unusual, > but upon closer inspection it would often turn out that the clusters of a > pair of hives would be joined. Bees would be running back and forth, > some obviously alarmed, and I occasionally did see small piles of dead > bees from resultant fighting.' Our hives *touch* on some pallets, and share a divider, but I have never noticed any fighting. Here in Alberta, we can merge hives 'most any time without conflict. > Is this a concern, with the pallets, as well? Could queens be killed > this way? Never heard of it. In fact, while wintering, the winter lids (inner covers) on the four hives that are crowded together sometimes get crooked inside the wraps after a visit for feeding and the bees are able to go from hive to hive (on foot). All the hives seem to do fine. Only if a queen is poor or gone, do her bees wander over to the neighbours', it seems. > In some German photographs you can see apiaries of maybe 12 colonies all > on one long stand, entrances right next to each other. There is NO space > between colonies. I've often wondered if this becomes problematic. On > the other hand, it is probably a good, protective arrangement for > wintering. Exactly. Some beekeepers here have long blankets made that cover 10 or more hives in a row, with holes for top ventilation and flight. As with any row, though drifting can be a problem. Allen Dick VE6CFK Rural Route One, Swalwell, Alberta Canada T0M 1Y0 Internet:dicka@cuug.ab.ca & allend@internode.net Honey,Bees&Art ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1997 16:38:51 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Eunice D. Wonnacott" Subject: Re: famous beekeepers Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >On Fri, 21 Feb 1997 08:36:10 -0700 Jerry J Bromenshenk > writes: > >>Wonder what it means when the Captain of a ship that sunk takes up >>beekeeping? Obviously, he didn't go down with the ship. > >It means that the "The Captain is the last to leave the ship" is a crock! > >Al >--- >Al Needham--Scituate,MA,USA--awneedham@juno.com >Author Of "The HoneyBee"-- Educational Program About Honey >Bees With A Superb Slide Show-Version 2.1 (c) 1997 >Download From Sweden At : http://www.kuai.se/~beeman > The Captain does not have to go down with the ship. The last to go down simply means that he ensures all others are safely in lifeboats, rafts, or picked up, etc. He is responsible for the lives of his crew, and must not abandon any of them. When all are acoounted for, he can then leave. Nowhere is it written that the Captain must drown if the ship sinks!!!> Eunice ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1997 14:51:29 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jerry J Bromenshenk Subject: Re: famous beekeepers In-Reply-To: <199702212038.QAA13520@bud.peinet.pe.ca> from "Eunice D. Wonnacott" at Feb 21, 97 04:38:51 pm MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi: Did you really think I expected him to drown? Jerry ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1997 13:56:06 -0800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Roy Nettlebeck Subject: My hive conditions in western Wash USA MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Hello All, We had sun today and about 50 F. I looked in about 20 hives and all had capped brood about 7 inches in diameter on at least 3 frames. That is in the top box. I was working fast and did not use the smoker. I try not to smoke them and upset there work pattern. Plenty of pollen is coming in and the bees look great. No drones in the hives that I looked at and did not hear any flying. I do have some hives with a few drone cells capped. I feel that the fall management that I did in 96 has made all the difference in the world.Weather is part of it but it was still winter with 3 ft. of snow and a lot of rain.My new innercovers with a baffled moisture excape has kept the moisture level way down in the hives. I used 1 and 2 inches of foam insulation on top of the bees with a hole in the middle of it to let the warm moist air to go out thru the inner cover. I have lost 1 out of 50 hives and they just never stopped brood rearing and so went the stores. All of my hives have at least 60 pounds on honey on them for winter and some 80. I feel that the mint oil , honey and crisco was a help. I have my one hive that did not get any treatment. It is doing just as well as the others. I will do an either roll and check for varroa and sample some for TM. I will get into some of the fall management changes that I made. It is as simple as doing what everyone of the experts tell you to do. Start with healthy bees. Best Regards Roy ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1997 16:51:42 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Marilyn Pokorney <75401.1161@CompuServe.COM> Subject: Algae like growth on hives Hello all, On beehives, in shady and moist areas, an algae-like growth appears. I have been informed that this may be one reason that slugs crawl onto the hives. If it isn't algae or moss what sort of plant, fungi, or organism is this growth? Thanks in advance for any information. Marilyn Nebraska, USA 75401.1161@compuserve.com http://world.std.com/~marilpok ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1997 16:11:57 -0600 Reply-To: bbirkey@interaccess.com Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Barry Birkey Organization: www.Birkey.Com Subject: Re: Long Way - Warm Way? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Allen Dick wrote: > > > With the entrance on the long side ie. 20" or called the warm way. > > Personally I don't believe it makes much difference to temperature within > > the hive. After all the entrance is still the same size. > > ???? Maybe I'm missing something here, since going 'warm way', I envision > the entrance to be 18.5" long, rather than 15" or so? Since a Langstroth hive body measures 16-1/4" x 19-7/8" outside dimension, 18.5 fits neither short or long side. To be exact, an entrance opening on the long side would be 18-5/8" not 18-1/2" but then again I don't think David was intending to be that exact. That's what was missed. > > As to the strength of the floor, one way versus another makes no > > difference. The strength of the rim surrounding the floor supports the > > boxes, not the middle of the floor. > > On our floors -- and likely yours from what you say -- that is true since > we have cleats under front and back for access for forks and carts as well > as a rim on three sides; however the ordinary floors sold by bee supply > houses only have a rim on *three* sides, and bee supply house equipment > tends to set the standard in folks minds. It still matters not. Yours or ordinary floors, as long as at least two opposing sides are held in place by a connection of wood or something else, it will support the hive just fine. One could even have a floor with just two sides on it and give the bees front and back access if they wanted to. -Barry -- Barry Birkey West Chicago, Illinois USA bbirkey@interaccess.com http://www.birkey.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1997 15:50:23 -0700 Reply-To: allend@internode.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Allen Dick Organization: The Beekeepers Subject: Re: 4-packs, proximity of entrances In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT > Drifting would understandably occur, but it isn't much of a problem, I > guess, if the colonies are all strong. Of course then you could always > tack some various-colored designs or whatnot to the hive fronts, above > the entrances. We actually avoid markers and stick to white hives, because markers cause havoc when reversing, etc. We just try to arrange the four packs so that drifting does not cause unevenness. *Occasionally* we'll see a yard much taller on one end than another if the only flow is very much in one particular direction, but normally, the hives are pretty even. > I wonder if you have screened drain/vent holes in the floors fixed to > the pallets, I made the mistake of making floors that were too watertight many years ago and then dipped them in paraffin to boot. I had to drill them with 3/8" holes (no screens), since otherwise, if they got tipped at all back, the hives suffered badly. > and if you prefer the pallets which leave a bit of space between the > colonies, or the ones on which the hives are set right next/against each > other. As far as the bees are concerned, they don't care, but we find that the telescoping lids are best in wet years, and therefore like the space. We have *sloped* floors on our favourite pallets, and the hives are far enough apart to allow using telescoping lids with a 3/4 inch gap between the lids for fingers, etc.. On trucks, the main consideration is weight, not volume, so crowding the hives tight is not important to us from the perspective of efficient loading. > I have also seen pallets used where each colony entrance was 90 degrees > from its neighbor, like > > | - > _ | but it requires more space, and is not so straightforward in > design. That's really the best for the bees, except you have a North facing hive and that can be poor in some circumstances and locations. You also have to walk around to work the next hive. And the pallets are an odd shape to load on trucks (48" + 48" = 96" and that is just 6" shy of legal max width and thus ideal). > Are you using Swinger-type lifts with the palletized hives? Yes, and we have hydraulic hold downs to ensure that tall stacks don't shift. (But they sometimes do). > Maybe I shouldn't ask, but I am curious if you or others you know have > had any notable mishaps while loading or unloading this way. Presumably > they don't have any supers on when you are shifting them, so they are > relatively short stacks on the pallets. Not always, but it doesn't matter how you move bees -- you have to drop around 1% to stay awake ;) > Just visited a yard of 12 colonies a few miles away. The bees are flying > pretty heavily, and have piled up the dead out front of the entrances. > It is very windy, and some colonies are noticeably stronger than others, > judging by flight. I hope they are as active come April. > By tomorrow this time we will be below freezing with snows forecast. > Nice to have a break once in a while, tho'. Up in VE6-land, do you get > occasional days above freezing, or does it tend to be more or less below > freezing (or below zero!) for extended periods? Have to get out again soon. Much snow here, but days are above freezing. Nights to minus 10 Celcius (14 F?) Allen Dick VE6CFK Rural Route One, Swalwell, Alberta Canada T0M 1Y0 Internet:dicka@cuug.ab.ca & allend@internode.net Honey,Bees&Art ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1997 15:46:08 -0800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Bob Rolfness Subject: Re: famous beekeepers MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Eunice D. Wonnacott wrote: > > >On Fri, 21 Feb 1997 08:36:10 -0700 Jerry J Bromenshenk > > writes: > > > >>Wonder what it means when the Captain of a ship that sunk takes up > >>beekeeping? Obviously, he didn't go down with the ship. > > > >It means that the "The Captain is the last to leave the ship" is a crock! > > > >Al > >--- > >Al Needham--Scituate,MA,USA--awneedham@juno.com > >Author Of "The HoneyBee"-- Educational Program About Honey > >Bees With A Superb Slide Show-Version 2.1 (c) 1997 > >Download From Sweden At : http://www.kuai.se/~beeman > > > The Captain does not have to go down with the ship. The last to go down > simply means that he ensures all others are safely in lifeboats, rafts, or > picked up, etc. He is responsible for the lives of his crew, and must not > abandon any of them. When all are acoounted for, he can then leave. > Nowhere is it written that the Captain must drown if the ship sinks!!!> > > Eunice Hi All - I'd head in the US Navy the reason the Captain goes down with his ship is he can't pay for it. Bob ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 22 Feb 1997 09:58:46 +1000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Mauricio Montes Castillo Subject: Re: Famous People Who Keep Bees Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >Beekeepers come from all kinds of backgrounds and interests. How about a >list of famous people (living or dead) who keep/kept bees. Scientists, >politicians, entertainment celebrities, etc.? > >I believe Sherlock Holmes retired to keep bees. As a matter of fact, O.J. Simpson used to keep giant bees in his backyard. One drone got jealous and indeed angry because he heard his "queen" had a couple of affairs with some other drones. Well, the mad drone jumped off the hive and accidentally killed Nicole and her friend. The drone could not distinguish very well because it was dark. Cheers. Mauricio :) ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1997 18:26:38 -0700 Reply-To: allend@internode.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Allen Dick Organization: The Beekeepers Subject: Advertising Bee Equipment , Bees, etc. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Tada! At last! After several months of technical problems with my Web Presence Provider, The *** Free Bee Ads *** Board is Born! Commercial ads are just as welcome as private ads. The idea is to get people together to do business. Anyone may advertise any and all bee related items (within reason) at: http://www.internode.net/HoneyBee/Bee There is no cost or obligation whatsoever. This will be a learning experience, so we'll see how popular it turns out to be and how people use it. There is a local search engine on site, so if there gets to be a lot, you can search for just what you want. Why not give it a try, and send me your comments? Allen Dick VE6CFK Rural Route One, Swalwell, Alberta Canada T0M 1Y0 Internet:dicka@cuug.ab.ca & allend@internode.net Honey,Bees&Art ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1997 18:31:37 -0700 Reply-To: allend@internode.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Allen Dick Organization: The Beekeepers Subject: Bee Discussion Areas on the Web MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT *** Announcing Three New Bee Discussion Areas on the Web! There are three different areas for different types of bee people. Try the new discussion areas that are located at: http://www.internode.net/HoneyBee/Bee and see if they serve any of your needs. I don't expect that they will replace BEE-L or sci.agriculture.beekeeping, but they may prove useful. All areas on the website are fully searchable, so all previous discussions should remain visible for some time. Enjoy Allen Dick VE6CFK Rural Route One, Swalwell, Alberta Canada T0M 1Y0 Internet:dicka@cuug.ab.ca & allend@internode.net Honey,Bees&Art ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1997 23:05:12 -0800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Marie E. Thorp" Subject: Hive Coating Failure Comments: To: 75401.1161@CompuServe.COM MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Marilyn Pokorney wrote: > > Hello all, > > On beehives, in shady and moist areas, an algae-like growth appears. I have been > informed that this may be one reason that slugs crawl onto the hives. If it > isn't algae or moss what sort of plant, fungi, or organism is this growth? > > Thanks in advance for any information. > > Marilyn > Nebraska, USA > 75401.1161@compuserve.com > http://world.std.com/~marilpokHi Marilyn, If it is a high moisture area that has no drying out period in the daytime you might do good to find a location that would meet this requirement. Also,it could have to do with the quality of your hive coating.It will always stand true that the lower the quality the more prone to failure such as this. Take Care and GBY John in Homestead ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1997 23:03:37 -0800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Vince Coppola Subject: Re: ANP Frames MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Albert W Needham wrote: > He also stated that this was the hive in which he had a super of "ANP"foundation which was still "chuck-a-bluck" full of capped honey. ANP apparently is a German manufactured foundation with complete full plastic cells. He said all the bees do is fill them up with honey an cap the plastic cell with wax. ANP foundation was devoloped in and originaly marketed from somewhere in Europe. It was produced in CA by Pierco and sold through Dadant for several years. It never caught on because of the high cost, abt $3/frame. The object was to help control varroa by by reducing the post capping period. The cells were tapered so that the back of the cell was larger than the entrace providing additional room for larval food. That is supposed to make the bee devolop and hatch sooner. At least thats the way I remember it. Its been a long time since I've read about ANP so I may be a bit hazy on the details. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1997 23:18:11 -0800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Vince Coppola Subject: Re: late winter early spring management MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit (Thomas) (Cornick) wrote: > 1 Do the hives with very clean bottom boards exhibit the kind of hygienic > behavior that breeders are trying to select for? This characteristic is refred to as house cleaning and is not the same as hygenic behavior. House cleaning refers to things like clean bottom boards and clean top bars, hygenic behavior (HYG)is the removal of dead brood. HYG is really two characteristics, the ability to detect and uncap dead or infected brood, and the ability to remove it. Read up on it , theres alot more. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1997 23:29:49 -0800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Vince Coppola Subject: Re: Early drones MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lets not get too upset about early drones. Strong colonies, especialy when the winter is mild with many warm days will produce drones pretty early. I think what Dr. Connor wants us to look for (correct me if I'm wrong Larry)are colonies with drones that should have been workers. That is the egg was laid in a worker cell, but turned out to be a drone, because the queen ran out of sperm and the egg was not fertilized. These drones may be smaller than a normal drone. Examine some comb and look for "bullets" or "puff brood" (drones in worker cells). -- End --