From LISTSERV@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU Mon Jun 30 09:10:27 1997 Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 08:57:21 -0400 From: "L-Soft list server at University at Albany (1.8c)" To: Adam Finkelstein Subject: File: "BEE-L LOG9704B" ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Apr 1997 21:55:01 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Daniel D. Dempsey" Subject: Re: Queens Mite-Free? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 06:11 AM 4/5/97 -1000, you wrote: >All Hawaiian honey bees will be mite free. >Walter > > PATTON Walter, Elisabeth, Axel, Walter Ryan > >> From: Brett D Bannon >> >> I have mite free hives in a isolated area in NE New Mexico. >> If I order queens that are sent with Apistan-tabs will they absolutely be >> mite free? I sure don't want to contaminate our area! >> >> Thanks in advance >> >> Brett D. Bannon >> bbannon@juno.com Wasn't there some discussion last year about Queens from Hawaii hat doing very well in Florida since they are not Tracheal Mite resistant. Dan Daniel D. Dempsey P. O. Box #5 Red Bluff, CA 96080-0005 U.S.A. ddempsey@tco.net ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Apr 1997 20:55:57 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "John R. Marshall" Subject: Re: Feeding Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >Date: Fri, 26 Apr 1996 00:25:17 >To: NCBeekeeper@aol.com >From: "John R. Marshall" >Subject: RE: Feeding > >Chris, > >Did you install your package bees on new foundation? If so, you should probably feed your bees sugar water until they have drawn out all ten frames of foundation. It also helps if you move the center frames to the outside as they draw them out. The bees tend to draw out the center frames first and then the outside frames more slowly. If there is a necter flow going on in your area the bees may ignore the sugar water so don't be alarmed. As for fire ants, you should probably contact your local county extension agent to find out the lastest info on that subject. Don't forget to treat for the Varrora Mite! > >I have a lot to learn but I have been keeping bees in Tenn. for 15 years. > >John > jrmars@tricon.net >))))@ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Apr 1997 07:09:42 +0100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Sid Pullinger Subject: Pollen Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" <<<>>> This book, by Dorothy Hodges, first published in 1952, is a classic for British beekeepers and would no doubt cover many of the nectar bearing flowers in the United States. It is still in print and available from Northern Bee Books, Scout Bottom Farm, Mytholmroyd, Hebden Bridge, West Yorkshire HX7 5JS. Telephone 01422 882751, fax 01422 886157. Colour charts for 120 bee plants, as collected and as seen in honey, large microscopical drawings of the pollen grains of 140 species. Aso available from same publisher - Pocket Pollen Colour Guide by Stephen Hardy and A Colour Guide to the Pollen Loads of the Honey Bee by William Kirk, detailing 268 plants. Sid P. _________________________________________________________________ Sid Pullinger Email : sidpul@Interalpha.co.uk or 36, Grange Rd Sidpul@compuserve.com Alresford Hants SO24 9HF England ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Apr 1997 02:36:00 GMT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Andy Nachbaur Organization: WILD BEE'S BBS (209) 826-8107 LOS BANOS, CA Subject: Re: Save Our Drones JB>From: Janko Bozic >Date: Mon, 7 Apr 1997 14:53:25 +0000 >Subject: Re: Save Our Drones JB>> Is there any way to keep a group of drones alive over the winter ? I am sure some work has been done on this, but recall having read it. If I wanted to keep large numbers of drone's, say from one mother hive I would first prevent the drones from flying with queen excluders. This would give you a much increased drone population as most drones are lost when they fly away from the hive and don't come back. I would keep the hive as "spring" flush as possible by feeding spring pollen and light sugar syrup. The natural response is for bees to rear drones when things are right. It is a good standard to test bee diets. If the bees rear drones you got a good diet. In all cases drones must have worker bees to care for them just as the queen. They will die in a short time if no workers are available. I learned the hard way you can't ship drones in cages with no attendants. JB>Just today one beekeeper told me that he observed perhaps 100 drones >in a queenless family. He said that there was no brood in the comb, >so these drones most likely survive the winter. Sounds like a laying worker and all the adult adult bees have died? Or in the spring a drone comet that made the wrong turn. Sometimes, I have seen the virgin queen fall to the ground and get balled, (the bee ball kind), by dozen's of drones willing to lay down their life to pass on their genes. Without seeing them it is hard to tell. They could be young drones produced by a drone laying queen or one that is no longer fertile, but at least under winter conditions in mile high Colorado, that I have some experience with hard winters, a few drones do winter over in most hives. Here in California drones can be found in most healthy hives all year as our winters are short. ttul Andy- --- ~ QMPro 1.53 ~ ... Where the wild bee never flew, ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Apr 1997 02:50:00 GMT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Andy Nachbaur Organization: WILD BEE'S BBS (209) 826-8107 LOS BANOS, CA Subject: Question regarding the "Killer Bee" show on cable.I watched a one hour show this past weekend on the "Killer Bee". JM>From: Jim Moore >Date: Mon, 7 Apr 1997 13:24:09 EDT >Subject: Question regarding the "Killer Bee" show on cable. JM> Well it would seem to me that even if the worker had not removed >the queen excluders that the Africanized bee would have "escaped" >anyway. It may have already been out when the incident of blame occured. >I would expect that during routine hive maintenance many drones would >have taken flight, thus providing the Africanized genes to the general >population. Jim, you are 100% right. As one who has reared drones and kept them in for months with excluders I have seen them take off by the thousands darkening the sky with a roar and determination one has to see to believe when all I did was crack the lid a tad. Interesting thing is they only returned by the hundreds as most found other hives or died in the field. There is no practicable way to rear bees and keep from having the drones fly away that I have ever read or heard about. Sure you could use double excluders but the first time you worked the brood all the old drones would take off. In trapping pollen the drones are prevented from flying by the pollen trap screen. The first traps I made you had to remove the hive top to collect the pollen, the drones would knock off my glasses as soon as I cracked that hive top. The drone passes more then genes around the beekeeping community, such as hitch hiking parasites like the varroa mite that prefers drone brood. ttul, the OLd Drone (c) Permission is granted to freely copy this document in any form, or to print for any use. (w)Opinions are not necessarily facts. Use at own risk. --- ~ QMPro 1.53 ~ Nothing is so smiple that it can't get screwed up. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Apr 1997 03:03:00 GMT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Andy Nachbaur Organization: WILD BEE'S BBS (209) 826-8107 LOS BANOS, CA Subject: Another Africanized bee q JMDO>From: Jim Moore DTN276-9448 ogo1/e17 508-496-9448 >Date: Mon, 7 Apr 1997 15:00:14 EDT >Subject: Another Africanized bee question JMDO> I have another question the the "Killer Bee" show has raised. I sh >a migratory beekeeper in Arizona (I can't recall his name) killing the que >an aggressive (Africanized?) hive and requeening, before leaving the area. JMDO> What is the standard practice of migratory beekeepers to cull out >Africanized bees when leaving Africanized areas for points west, north and >east? My experience is 2nd hand from a former family member who keeps bees in an area of Arizona that has by USDA definition African Bees. He finds them very useful as he reports they brood up earlier and heavier then his own stock. He does say that if you don't divide them several times they will swarm out. He reports that some of them are hotter to handle then what he is used too, which is HOT compared to what most beekeepers find in their own bees, and that they seem to fly faster then his own stock. As for bees from the regulated zone of Texas in the California almonds. I did hear a good story from this spring of one almond grower who kept the bees much longer then necessary and longer then the beekeeper wanted. This grower has changed his mind as when it came time to irrigate his trees the bees kept the irrigators out of the orchard. So all is not bad about Afrikaner bees as I bet next year when the beekeeper says it time to move the bees he will not get any static from that grower. ttul, the OLd Drone *Standard Disclaimer as seen on other posts* --- ~ QMPro 1.53 ~ Press -- to continue ... ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Apr 1997 09:28:57 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Kriston M. Bruland" Subject: Re: Essential Oils In-Reply-To: Brian R Tucker "Essential Oils" (Apr 7, 10:19pm) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii On Apr 7, 10:19pm, Brian R Tucker wrote: > Subject: Essential Oils > I overwintered 2 hives 1 with > patties with oils and 1 without. The hive that had oils if doing wounderful > and no signs of varroa. But the one without is very slow out of the gate here > and does have some might in the drone brood. Thanks for comments. > > B. Tucker > Polo MO >-- End of excerpt from Brian R Tucker Hi Brian and all, I for one would be very interested in hearing more...what mix of oils did you use and what were your application methods? Did you use the techniques and formulas reported at http://www.wvu.edu? Did the hive without the oils have Apistan? I'm going to try my own mixes of oils this season, probably wintergreen, peppermint, spearmint, and pennyroyal. I've seen pennyroyal knock down ear mites in cats and dogs, better than any commercial control, and want to know if it works on bee mites too. There hasn't been much discussion of essential oil varroa control on the net lately and I'd really like to hear from those who have tried these. Kris Bruland Member of Mt. Baker Beekeepers Association Bellingham, WA U.S.A. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Apr 1997 12:07:45 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Rett Thorpe MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain I am getting ready to install my first packages (2) of bees this coming Saturday (I'm very excited and nervous). I know that I need to feed them plenty of syrup until our first flow. I am planning on just sitting a bucket of syrup on the inner cover with a super and top cover over it. I plan to put some sticks or something in the bucket for the bees to land on. I have heard of drilling a bunch of little holes in a bucket lid then inverting it, but I cant see any reason not to do what I previously described. Could someone please tell me if my method will work or am I missing the boat completely? Thanks for your time A rookie in Utah Rett Thorpe ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Apr 1997 14:47:06 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jim Moore Subject: Re: pail versus inverted feeder. The inverted feeder presents the syrup at the hole of the inner cover and the bees will be warmed by the heat of the hive. If the weather is cold this would offer one advantage. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Apr 1997 14:48:45 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jim Moore Subject: Drifting Bees Question I'm curious about bees drifting to downwind hives. Does the height of the entrances make a difference? From the diagrams below of three arrangements of 2 hives ( labeled S and N) facing east and the prevailing breezes toward the North what would be the predicted population differences. I would expect in all three cases the northern hive N would get the drifting bees. My real question is which of them would get the most A,B or C. Opinions based on experience or reaseach results would be welcome. Also general observations about long lines of hives would be of interest. For instance is it the case the the hive receiving the drifiting bees tends to be on the cranky side, the better producer, or neither or both? Thanks in advance, Jim Moore Arrangement A. __________ | | | -- | __________ | | | | |__________| | -- | | | | | | -- | |__________| | | | | |__________| | -- | |__________| | | | | |__________| | | |__________| | | | | | | S | | N ----------------------\ Prevailing breezes > ----------------------/ Arrangement B. __________ __________ | | | | | -- | | -- | | | | | |__________| |__________| | | | | | -- | | -- | | | | | |__________| |__________| |__________| |__________| | | | | | | S | | N | | | | ----------------------\ Prevailing breezes > ----------------------/ Arrangement C. __________ | | __________ | -- | | | | | | -- | |__________| | | | | |__________| | -- | | | | | | -- | |__________| | | |__________| |__________| | | |__________| | | | | | | | | S | | N | | | | ----------------------\ Prevailing breezes > ----------------------/ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Apr 1997 21:23:02 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "(Thomas) (Cornick)" Subject: Re: No Subject In a message dated 97-04-08 15:54:49 EDT, you write: << I am planning on just sitting a bucket of syrup on the inner cover with a super and top cover over it. I plan to put some sticks or something in the bucket for the bees to land on. >> Put a good hand full of straw or hay in the bucket it won't take much room and you will drown far less bees that way. Also start with half a bucket of syrup and check it in a couple days to see how the bees are doing. If you put the syrup on warmed up to about 90 degrees the bees start to take it down pretty fast. Happy Beekeeping ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Apr 1997 21:27:05 -0400 Reply-To: beluch@webspan.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Mike & Linda Subject: Varroa Sticky Traps - Can someone help me find some... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi all, As part of some Varroa mite testing I'm involved in, I really could use sticky papers with grids on them to aid in dead mite detection. None of the 'traps' in the big name catalogs really fit the bill. However, in the March 1997 ABJ, page 207, there is pictured a "DEWILL VARROA MITE DETECTOR INSERT." These would be perfect. Does anyone out there know who sells them, or maybe have an address for Dewill? Any help would be much appreciated. Thanks Mike ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Apr 1997 21:30:24 +0100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Greg Hankins Subject: Newbie Question: Apistan & Packages Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I'll be picking up two three-pound packages at Brushy Mountain's "Bee Day" a week from this Saturday. By that point, here in the southern half of Piedmont North Carolina, the maples and oaks should be about done in terms of bloom. The choke cherries are in full bloom now, so I imagine they'll be done, too. The blackberries, though, of which we have LOTS within a mile or so, should be just starting to peak. (At least, I hope they'll hold on that long.) I know from the many books I've read that I should feed sugar syrup. I'm less clear -- given the bloom scenario above, whether pollen or pollen substitute is necessary. I'm still less clear on medications. Should I leave apistan and/or extender patty (with or without medication) on 'til after adding a second full-sized hive body? Or should I dispense with medication 'til fall. Thanks for any and all advice. Greg ____________________________________________________ Greg Hankins Mt. Gilead, NC ghankins@ac.net ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Apr 1997 22:39:36 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Conrad Sigona Subject: Re: Varroa Sticky Traps - Can someone help me find some... Comments: To: Mike & Linda In-Reply-To: <334AF069.1B47@webspan.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII > As part of some Varroa mite testing I'm involved in, I really could use > sticky papers with grids on them to aid in dead mite detection. None of > the 'traps' in the big name catalogs really fit the bill. However, in > the March 1997 ABJ, page 207, there is pictured a "DEWILL VARROA MITE > DETECTOR INSERT." These would be perfect. Does anyone out there know who > sells them, or maybe have an address for Dewill? Any help would be much > appreciated. I have used a home-made version successfully. It consists of a sheet of oiled (I used vegetable oil) paper inserted between two pieces of screening (hardware cloth). The screening is sewed together on three of the four sides to form a pocket and the paper is inserted into the pocket. Then the entire thing is slid into the hive through the hive entrance and rests on the bottom board. The screening stops the bees from ripping the paper up. I drew boxes 1" square on the paper; this made counting the dead mites easier. If you put a little handle like a pot-holder handle on the screen, you can slip it in and out of the hive with little trouble and inspect it daily if you like. Conrad Sigona conrad@ntcnet.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Apr 1997 08:38:51 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Frank & Phronsie Humphrey Subject: Switching Brood Chambers MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi All I realize that I'm about to start an argument but here goes. Over the past several years I have been observing hives to see if the queens would go back down after filling the top brood chamber. I have found that about 8 of 10 will. Those that don't I reverse the chambers. Most how to books state that the chambers must be switched or else the bottom will become unused. One or two books I have read are absolutely against this practice as being to disruptive. I tend to agree with this. The queens that use both chambers on their own, tend to lay in a very large pattern and thus have a larger population. When reversing the brood chambers, the brood nest is broken in to two small nest and the bees have to reconstruct the oval shape nest each time. This year I am selecting my breeder queens from among those that do not require reversal. I plan to continue to try to eliminate the practice of reversal in my apiary because of the extra work involved and because it is so disruptive. Those queens that require reversal will be replaced. I would like to hear form others on this subject. Frank & Phronsie Humphrey beekeepr@cdc.net ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Apr 1997 09:01:14 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: James D Satterfield Subject: Wasps flying over lawn MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII My son observed "hundreds" of wasps flying low over a lawn. The wasps were apparently flying in "searching" patterns, perhaps a breeding aggregation. They were dark in coloration, predominantly black. Several years ago I saw a similar aggregation on my lawn. There is no question that they are wasps rather than bees. Any of you entomology folks care to venture a guess as to what they might be?? Locations are near Atlanta, GA USA and about 40 mi N of Atlanta. Cordially yours, Jim ---------------------------------------------------------------- | James D. Satterfield | E-Mail: jsatt@gsu.edu | | 258 Ridge Pine Drive --------------------------------| | Canton, GA 30114, USA Canton is about 40 mi/64 km | | Telephone (770) 479-4784 north of Altanta, Georgia USA | | | | TBH Beekeeping Website: http://www.gsu.edu/~biojdsx/main.htm | ---------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Apr 1997 07:08:26 -0700 Reply-To: allend@internode.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Allen Dick Organization: The Beekeepers Subject: Re: Switching Brood Chambers In-Reply-To: <199704091242.IAA05721@cdc3.cdc.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT > Over the past several years I have been observing hives to see if the > queens would go back down after filling the top brood chamber. I have > found that about 8 of 10 will. Those that don't I reverse the chambers. > Most how to books state that the chambers must be switched or else the > bottom will become unused. Some package beekeepers (and others) nail the bottom board onto the bottom box. They never reverse, and some of them get huge crops every year. There are many factors in when and if the queen goes down, including space above the brood nest, frame size, time of year, entrance sizes and locations, bee stock, condition of queen (age and number of legs :), use of excluders or not, amount of granulated honey in combs, age and condition of combs, amount of ladder comb and bee space between supers, thickness and style of top bars, locale, etc., etc. Queens also prefer to stick to comb that is reasonably 'fresh'. > One or two books I have read are absolutely against this practice as > being to disruptive. I tend to agree with this. Reversing is *intentionally* disruptive, and should only be used when a disruption of this sort is beneficial -- as in the cases you mentioned. FWIW, we always (almost) add a second brood chamber to package hives *under* the first, then maybe reverse later if conditions merit. We prefer to feed heavily to drive the queen down, and we do not scrape the wax bumps (ladder comb) on top of brood frames unless they get very bad. BTW, It is amazing how many people have a 1/2 inch (rather than 3/16 to 3/8) between the upper and lower brood chamber frames and do not know it. Queens do not always want to cross this barrier. FWIW, I compare opening a hive and manipulating to open heart surgery. It can do a lot of good if done under the correct conditions and for the right reasons by a knowledgeable person, but is not something to do casually. > The queens that use both chambers on their own, tend to lay in a very large > pattern and thus have a larger population. When reversing the brood > chambers, the brood nest is broken in to two small nest and the bees have > to reconstruct the oval shape nest each time. That's the idea, actually, and in doing so the bees uncover pollen, remove old honey, and theoretically increse the brood nest size. With some types of bees, this is not generally necessary. Another benefit is that the bottoms of the borrom frames get freshened and stay attractive. > This year I am selecting my breeder queens from among those that do not > require reversal. I plan to continue to try to eliminate the practice > of reversal in my apiary because of the extra work involved and because > it is so disruptive. Those queens that require reversal will be > replaced. Sounds like a good plan, especially since you raise your own stock. Any queen that does not keep up with the others is a candidate for replacement. The 20% figure sounds about right. In any given apiary 20% of the queens need replacing at any given time. The problem is normally guessing which ones. There is a rule that 20% of a project gives 80% of the profit and that 20% of an enterprise causes 80% of the trouble and expense. Management is to a great extent the art of knowing which is which and eliminating as much as possible the troublesome 20% -- to the extent that it does not overlap with the profitable 20%. Allen ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Apr 1997 09:24:07 +0100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Joel Govostes Subject: Re: Switching Brood Chambers Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" IME some queens move down, some don't. Brood chamber reversal is not something to do just automatically. It can cause problems for the bees, especially if cold weather moves in after the manipulation. With the brood nest split the bees can have a difficult time maintaining temperature within the nest, and brood can be lost to the cold. I have had the misfortune of finding this out the hard way, once, when I "reversed" a whole yard of colonies on a balmy late April day. A cold front moved in that night, and the low temperatures persisted for several days. Next time I checked those colonies, most were basically starting over again, having had a large portion of the brood die. Now I wait 'til the beginning of May, and make sure the weather is settled. Some queens will by then have a nice lot of brood in the lower as well as the upper brood box. Still, by and large, I reverse them at this point. The reason is, even if the colony has moved down and is occupying the lower brood chamber, the lower and outside edges of the combs are still largely unused and may still hold a lot of garbage/mold that accumulated down there during the winter. Raising the lower brood-box up above allows me to remove old burr- or ladder-comb, and gets the bees to repair and clean up all of the combs. Then the space is better utilized, I find. This is a natural result of their tendency to work upwards anyway. Without reversing, the bees might not make full use of the comb area at the bottom, and the combs would end up worn, chewed and filthy from just being used as a passageway. I have seen swarms from colonies which never actually moved down to utilize the entire comb space at the bottom. On the other hand, if the brood nest is spread between the two chambers, and the cluster is not very large, reversing is not a good idea, yet, anyway. In that case you end up just splitting the brood nest with a big gap between the parts, and the colony cannot deal with this well. So... not too early, and according to each colony's condition -- that's my take on it, anyway. JG Freeville, NY ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Apr 1997 10:06:31 +0100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Joel Govostes Subject: Re: Feeding bees Comments: To: RThorpe@sterwent.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hi Rett. Nice to hear you are getting going with the bees. You have the right idea , yet there are 2 possible difficulties with your feeding plan -- First, the syrup is not right "at" the cluster. The bees will have to crawl way up to the syrup, and then back down, which is something they will be reluctant to do anytime the temp. is not around 60 degrees, or above. That means they will probably not get the feed during cool days and at night. With the inverted feeder (with holes or screen in the lid) the syrup is right *at* the edge of the cluster and they will take the syrup continuously. Then, also, there is the risk of lots of bees getting bogged down in the syrup if you feed it with an open-top container. They will manage okay if there is plenty of floating surface for them to stand on, but you are bound to lose a few that fall in. What you could do is take a piece of screen (window screen or whatever) and stick it into the container so it touches bottom and slopes up over the opposite side of the container. Then the bees can line up on the screen & use it as a ladder, and you won't lose many. A bee colony clusters pretty tight below ~ 57 degrees F., and so the temp. is the main consideration. Once clustered they will not venture very far to get the syrup. One easy way to feed is to just take a mayonnaise (or gallon) glass jar, fill it with sugar water, poke a dozen or so small nail-tip holes in the lid, cap it tight, and invert it over a pair of pencils or sticks over the inner-cover hole. This will keep them fed for a couple of days at least, after which time you can just replace the jar with a full one, alternating back and forth between 2 jars. Just make sure the lid-puncture-holes of the jar are not plugged with wax or propolis each time you replace the feeder. Sometimes the bees like to plug them up, especially if the jar becomes empty. The switching of jars is easy and quick (no need to suit up & use smoker), and you can just set the empty jar near the front of the hive so the bees which are on it can go back in. I hope everything goes well with your new bees. best wishes, J. Govostes Freeville, NY >I am getting ready to install my first packages (2) of bees this coming >Saturday (I'm very excited and nervous). I know that I need to feed >them plenty of syrup until our first flow. I am planning on just >sitting a bucket of syrup on the inner cover with a super and top cover >over it. I plan to put some sticks or something in the bucket for the >bees to land on. I have heard of drilling a bunch of little holes in a >bucket lid then inverting it, but I cant see any reason not to do what I >previously described. Could someone please tell me if my method will >work or am I missing the boat completely? > >Thanks for your time >A rookie in Utah >Rett Thorpe ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Apr 1997 21:03:28 +0300 Reply-To: JOHNLEE@global.california.com Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "john c lee jr." Organization: XHN Subject: WORKER BEE LIFE SPAN MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit MY SON HAS A QUESTION. HOW LONG DO WORKER BEE LIVE.THANK YOU ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Apr 1997 14:50:07 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Christopher Lynch Subject: publication announcement MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Papers presented in a symposium on "Insect conservation" at the 1995 annual meeting of the Acadian Entomological Society at Campobello, NB, Canada will be published in a special issue of the Northeastern Naturalist. Papers included are: Insects, entomologists and the conservation of biodiversity. Malcolm L Hunter, Jr. and Jeff Jaros-Su. The conservation of invertebrates in Maine and New England: Perspectives and prognoses. Mark A. McCollough. Butterfly poaching for profit in Baxter State Park. Jean Hoek- water. Bee conservation and increasing Osmia spp. in Maine wild blue- ber-ry fields. Constance Stubbs. Conservation status and reintroduction of the endangered American burying beetle. Michael Amaral, Andrea Kozol and Thomas French. The role of the amateur in insect conservation. Paul-Michael Brunelle. Copies of this special issue may be obtained for $5.00 (Can. or US) if ordered by June 1, 1997 from: Northeastern Naturalist Dyer Bay Road, PO Box 9 Steuben, ME, USA 04680-0009 (For further information contact the Northeastern Naturalist at TEL 207 546-2821 or email eaglhill@maine.maine.edu.) ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Apr 1997 15:01:40 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Janet Montgomery & Dan Veilleux Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" a simpler method is to get some heavy duty gallon zip lock bags and place 3 quarts of syrup in each of two for each hive. Place these on top of the brood chamber in a shallow super and make a small cross cut in the top of each about 2-3 inches long with a sharp razor blade.. It is easy and the bees will easily get the syrup.. The trouble with the perforated can is what size holes,expansion and contraction with temperature forces syrup out and down on to the brood sometimes and you can't see how much syrup is left, but the plastic bags eliminate all this. At 12:07 PM 4/8/97 -0600, you wrote: >I am getting ready to install my first packages (2) of bees this coming >Saturday (I'm very excited and nervous). I know that I need to feed >them plenty of syrup until our first flow. I am planning on just >sitting a bucket of syrup on the inner cover with a super and top cover >over it. I plan to put some sticks or something in the bucket for the >bees to land on. I have heard of drilling a bunch of little holes in a >bucket lid then inverting it, but I cant see any reason not to do what I >previously described. Could someone please tell me if my method will >work or am I missing the boat completely? > >Thanks for your time >A rookie in Utah >Rett Thorpe > > Dan Veilleux Columbus, Ohio USA montveil@iwaynet.net ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Apr 1997 16:48:29 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ted Wout Subject: Open buckets above inner cover. I'm not sure about Rett Thorpe's question on open buckets above the inner cover but I see two possible negative affects. 1. You're going to have major amounts of free space around the bucket inside that hive body. The bees may start building freestyle comb in that space. 2. I've used division board feeders with sticks floating in the sugar water. They seemed to work very well and held almost a gallon of sugar water. The downside is that many bees died by drowning in the sugar water. I foresee the same problem in this open bucket. In fact, it may be even greater. A division board feeder is very narrow. If a bee falls in there's a chance that it can make it to the side or the stick with some "swimming" (do bees swim?:>) to the side. In this round bucket that distance may be greater and therefore less bees pull themselves out. I will not use division board feeders again and I wouldn't try this method Rett described. I know that you can buy buckets intended for this purpose. They have lids that seal properly and you put them upside down over the hole in the inner cover. I recommend buying them. My favorite method of feeding my bees is Boardman feeders. I understand that several people don't like them. They may incite robbing but I have not experienced this. The benefit of Boardman feeders is that you can guage the amount of sugar water your bees are taking. Being a beginner you may want to use this and learn how much feed they'll take. You can also cut the bottom out of a boardman feeder, stuff the regular entrance and put it over the hole in the inner cover to prevent robbing. If you can find some, old half gallon canning jars make great feeders for packaged bees. You can double up (two feeders on the landing board) and feed a gallon at a time. I have not seen any of these jars in the stores but if I see some at garage sales I buy them up. Anybody know if they still make half gallon canning jars? Good luck with hiving your packages on Saturday, Rett. Let us know how it went. It wasn't that long ago that I hived my first package and I understand your nervousness. Enjoy it! You're embarking on a great hobby. Bee fever is a wonderful thing. Ted Wout, 3rd year, 10 hives Red Oak, TX ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Apr 1997 08:13:02 -0300 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: zardoz Subject: Re: Question regarding the "Killer Bee" show on cable.I watched a one hour Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable LA APICULTURA EN BRASIL Las abejas del g=E9nero Apis mel=EDfica no son originarias del continente americano; han sido tra=EDdas de Europa por colonizadores e inmigrantes. De acuerdo al Dr. Paulo Nogueira Neto (Manual de Apicultura), los primeros introductores de las colonias de abejas habr=E1n sido los reverendos Ant=F4n= io Aureliano, Paulo Barbosa y Sebasti=E3o Cordovil de Siqueira e Mello, en el a=F1o de 1839. Las colonias de abejas habr=E1n llegado a Brasil provenientes= de la ciudad de Porto (Portugal). De las 100 colonias embarcadas, s=F3lo 7 sobrevivieron al viaje; de inmediato han proliferado y fu=E9 de esta forma= que se inici=F3 la apicultura en Brasil. Sin embargo, en el a=F1o 1845 (conforme al prof. Hugo Muxfeldt, en la= revista El Apicultor, n. 1-1968 de la CBA), =93es posible que los alemanes,= fundadores de Nova Friburgo, en la provincia de Rio de Janeiro, hayan alcazado traer abejas en alg=FAn cortizo de paja o en alguna maceta de barro cocido.=94 Mucho han contribu=EDdo, como instructores, en la apicultura nacional, los inmigrantes alemanes Frederico Augusto Hanemann y Em=EDlio Schenk. Seguidamente, presento un breve resumen de sus biograf=EDas, de acuerdo a= los datos encontrados en la misma revista ya anteriormente relatada. El primer de los maestros que se ha merecido el t=EDtulo de =93Padre de las Abejas=94, fu=E9 Frederico Augusto Hanemann - el primer inmigrante= apicultor. Ha llegado a Brasil en 1853 y se fu=E9 a vivir en S=E3o Leopoldo (Rio Grande= do Sul) donde comenz=F3 la criaci=F3n de abejas. Inconforme con la flora de la regi=F3n, se fu=E9 a vivir a Rio Pardo en 1868, donde fund=F3 la =93Fazenda Abelina=94. En Brasil ha sido el primer constructor de un aparato centr=EDfu= go (extrator de miel) y el creador de una colmena con =93cuadros m=F3viles=94. = Ha dedicado toda su vida a las abejas; falleci=F3 en 1912 a los 94 a=F1os. El segundo maestro inmigrante alem=E1n apicultor fu=E9 Em=EDlio Schenk.= Lleg=F3 en 1895 y se fu=E9 a vivir en Curitiba. En 1897, fund=F3 la primera revista de apicultura en Brasil, que se llamaba Brasilianische Bienenzuechter (=93Apicultor Brasileiro=94); la primera edici=F3n, en alem=E1n, fu=E9= publicada en 1900. En 1903; se fu=E9 a vivir en Taquari (Rio Grande do Sul), donde inici= =F3 un gran apiario moderno - hoy, =93Parque Ap=EDcola de la Secretar=EDa de= la Agricultura=94. =09 En 1922, organiz=F3 el Colmenar Modelo, en la Exposici=F3n de Rio de= Janeiro, y a seguir fu=E9 invitado por el Ministerio de la Agricultura para ser el primer profesor de apicultura en la Escuela Federal de Agricultura, al km. 47 de la carretera Rio de Janeiro - S=E3o Paulo. En 1941, a la edad de 68 a=F1os, se ha jubilado y falleci=F3 en 1945, en Taquari, al lado de sus= abejas. Em=EDlio Schenk se ha dedicado a la difusi=F3n de las t=E9cnicas de= criaci=F3n racional de abejas; fu=E9 apicultor, escritor y profesor. Ha sido tambi=E9n quien idealiz=F3 la colmena Schenk, as=ED nombrada en su honor. Esta colmena todav=EDa se encuentra en funcionamiento desde Rio Grande do Sul hasta Rio= de Janeiro. =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=20 francis9@ruralsp.com.br =20 P.O.BOX 12185 =20 SAO PAULO - SP =20 zipcode 02098-970 =20 BRASIL =20 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Apr 1997 08:13:08 -0300 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: zardoz Subject: Re: Another Africanized bee q Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable At 03:03 08-04-1997 GMT, Andy Nachbaur wrote: >JMDO>From: Jim Moore DTN276-9448 ogo1/e17 508-496-9448 > >Date: Mon, 7 Apr 1997 15:00:14 EDT > >Subject: Another Africanized bee question > >JMDO> I have another question the the "Killer Bee" show has raised.= I sh > >a migratory beekeeper in Arizona (I can't recall his name) killing the= que > >an aggressive (Africanized?) hive and requeening, before leaving the= area. > >JMDO> What is the standard practice of migratory beekeepers to cull= out > >Africanized bees when leaving Africanized areas for points west, north= and > >east? > >My experience is 2nd hand from a former family member who keeps bees >in an area of Arizona that has by USDA definition African Bees. He >finds them very useful as he reports they brood up earlier and heavier >then his own stock. He does say that if you don't divide them several >times they will swarm out. He reports that some of them are hotter to >handle then what he is used too, which is HOT compared to what most >beekeepers find in their own bees, and that they seem to fly faster then >his own stock. > >As for bees from the regulated zone of Texas in the California almonds. >I did hear a good story from this spring of one almond grower who kept >the bees much longer then necessary and longer then the beekeeper >wanted. This grower has changed his mind as when it came time to >irrigate his trees the bees kept the irrigators out of the orchard. > >So all is not bad about Afrikaner bees as I bet next year when the >beekeeper says it time to move the bees he will not get any static >from that grower. > ttul, the OLd Drone > > >*Standard Disclaimer as seen on other posts* >--- > ~ QMPro 1.53 ~ Press -- to continue ... > > LA APICULTURA EN BRASIL Las abejas del g=E9nero Apis mel=EDfica no son originarias del continente americano; han sido tra=EDdas de Europa por colonizadores e inmigrantes. De acuerdo al Dr. Paulo Nogueira Neto (Manual de Apicultura), los primeros introductores de las colonias de abejas habr=E1n sido los reverendos Ant=F4n= io Aureliano, Paulo Barbosa y Sebasti=E3o Cordovil de Siqueira e Mello, en el a=F1o de 1839. Las colonias de abejas habr=E1n llegado a Brasil provenientes= de la ciudad de Porto (Portugal). De las 100 colonias embarcadas, s=F3lo 7 sobrevivieron al viaje; de inmediato han proliferado y fu=E9 de esta forma= que se inici=F3 la apicultura en Brasil. Sin embargo, en el a=F1o 1845 (conforme al prof. Hugo Muxfeldt, en la= revista El Apicultor, n. 1-1968 de la CBA), =93es posible que los alemanes,= fundadores de Nova Friburgo, en la provincia de Rio de Janeiro, hayan alcazado traer abejas en alg=FAn cortizo de paja o en alguna maceta de barro cocido.=94 Mucho han contribu=EDdo, como instructores, en la apicultura nacional, los inmigrantes alemanes Frederico Augusto Hanemann y Em=EDlio Schenk. Seguidamente, presento un breve resumen de sus biograf=EDas, de acuerdo a= los datos encontrados en la misma revista ya anteriormente relatada. El primer de los maestros que se ha merecido el t=EDtulo de =93Padre de las Abejas=94, fu=E9 Frederico Augusto Hanemann - el primer inmigrante= apicultor. Ha llegado a Brasil en 1853 y se fu=E9 a vivir en S=E3o Leopoldo (Rio Grande= do Sul) donde comenz=F3 la criaci=F3n de abejas. Inconforme con la flora de la regi=F3n, se fu=E9 a vivir a Rio Pardo en 1868, donde fund=F3 la =93Fazenda Abelina=94. En Brasil ha sido el primer constructor de un aparato centr=EDfu= go (extrator de miel) y el creador de una colmena con =93cuadros m=F3viles=94. = Ha dedicado toda su vida a las abejas; falleci=F3 en 1912 a los 94 a=F1os. El segundo maestro inmigrante alem=E1n apicultor fu=E9 Em=EDlio Schenk.= Lleg=F3 en 1895 y se fu=E9 a vivir en Curitiba. En 1897, fund=F3 la primera revista de apicultura en Brasil, que se llamaba Brasilianische Bienenzuechter (=93Apicultor Brasileiro=94); la primera edici=F3n, en alem=E1n, fu=E9= publicada en 1900. En 1903; se fu=E9 a vivir en Taquari (Rio Grande do Sul), donde inici= =F3 un gran apiario moderno - hoy, =93Parque Ap=EDcola de la Secretar=EDa de= la Agricultura=94. =09 En 1922, organiz=F3 el Colmenar Modelo, en la Exposici=F3n de Rio de= Janeiro, y a seguir fu=E9 invitado por el Ministerio de la Agricultura para ser el primer profesor de apicultura en la Escuela Federal de Agricultura, al km. 47 de la carretera Rio de Janeiro - S=E3o Paulo. En 1941, a la edad de 68 a=F1os, se ha jubilado y falleci=F3 en 1945, en Taquari, al lado de sus= abejas. Em=EDlio Schenk se ha dedicado a la difusi=F3n de las t=E9cnicas de= criaci=F3n racional de abejas; fu=E9 apicultor, escritor y profesor. Ha sido tambi=E9n quien idealiz=F3 la colmena Schenk, as=ED nombrada en su honor. Esta colmena todav=EDa se encuentra en funcionamiento desde Rio Grande do Sul hasta Rio= de Janeiro. LA CONTRIBUCI=D3N DE BRUNO SCHIRMER Respectivamente al monje Dom Amaro Van Emelen, S.O.B.,sacamos valiosas informaciones de la obra del Sr. Hugo Muxfeldt (Apicultura Para Todos) que resumiremos a seguir: Dom Amaro naci=F3 a 24/08/1853. Con mucho amor se ha dedicado al desarrollo de la apicultura; ha orientado y apoyado a todos los que lo buscaron para aprender sobre apicultura. A par de varios otros folletos, escribi=F3 y public=F3 el libro =93A Cartilha do Apicultor Brasileiro=94. Falleci=F3 en= 1946, ocasionando la p=E9rdida de m=E1s uno de los grandes maestros ap=EDcolas de= la naci=F3n brasile=F1a. =20 Como el cuarto maestro de la apicultura nacional, menciono al ga=FAcho (persona nacida en la provincia de Rio Grande do Sul) Bruno Schirmer, con el cual he convivido y trabajado por largo tiempo. Bruno era, por su naturaleza, un pesquisador y tambi=E9n hombre de mucha honestidad y patriotismo. Grande defensor de la apicultura con abejas mansas, fu=E9 uno de los fundadores de la =94Confedera=E7=E3o Brasileira de Apicultura=94; fu=E9 el fundador de otras entidades ap=EDcolas y profesor en cursos de apicultura. Ha inventado 25 petrechos ap=EDcolas y colmenares hom=F3nimos (Shirmer Tropical y Schirmer Temperada), reconocidos por todo= pa=EDs y muy utilizados, mayormente al Sur (S=E3o Paulo, Minas Gerais, Mato Grosso= do Sul, Santa Catarina y Rio Grande do Sul). Bruno Schirmer fu=E9 editor y director del peri=F3dico =93La Colmena=94,= con edici=F3n mensual y que por 28 meses circul=F3 en 32 pa=EDses del Exterior. Falleci=F3 en Canoas, Rio Grande do Sul, en el a=F1o de 1973 a los 68 a=F1o= s y no hubo prosecuci=F3n de la edici=F3n de su peri=F3dico. Desde la =E9poca en que F. A. Hanemann lleg=F3 a Brasil hasta 1956, a=F1o= de la introducci=F3n de las abejas africanas (Apis melifica adamsonii), la apicultura nacional crec=EDa y progresaba a pasos agigantados. Los colonizadores europeos que aqu=ED llegaban y se instalaban sol=EDan= traer semillas de plantas para producir sus alimentos; plantas medicinales para su medicina casera y, obviamente, tambi=E9n las abejas que siempre abastecieron al hombre con su medicamento polivalente - la miel. Para todos los pueblos antiguos, la miel fu=E9 siempre un gran remedio, y la abeja, un insecto sagrado. Hab=EDa entonces, por tradici=F3n de los pueblos europeos, una consciencia e informaci=F3n bastante arraigadas en cada colono con relaci=F3= n a la importancia de la abeja. Principalmente porque las abejas ten=EDan un comportamiento d=F3cil y permit=EDan f=E1cil convivencia con el hombre y= con los otros animales dom=E9sticos. =C9sto mucho contribu=EDa para la difusi=F3n de la apicultura en nuestro= pa=EDs, principalmente en las provincias del sur, donde la actuacci=F3n de los maestros ap=EDcolas encontraba facilidades como su propio idioma, el alem=E1= n, que ellos hablaban y era m=E1s difundido por all=ED. De Rio Grande do Sul= hasta Rio de Janeiro se localizaba el progreso mayor de la apicultura en Brasil. Hab=EDan grandes productores de miel, se editaban revistas, se vend=EDan= muchos n=FAcleos de abejas europeas, se practicaba la apicultura con placer,= poes=EDa, facilidad y sin molestar a nadie. Esto porque las abejas de las razas hasta entonces introducidas (A.M. Mell=EDfica, abeja oscura; A.M. Ligustica, italiana amarilla o dorada; A.M. Carnica, abeja austr=EDaca de color gris)= son todas mansas y permiten que sean monoseadas apenas de m=E1scara y camisa de manga corta. Aqu=ED, entonces, los europeos, volv=EDan a encontrar la abeja mansa con la cual estaban =EDntimamente ligados por tradici=F3n y necesidad de= sobrevivencia; pasaban a criarlas, obteniendo excelentes cosechas de miel sin mucho= esfuerzo. Las abejas que viven hace millones de a=F1os en el continente europeo, desarrollaron la caracter=EDstica de almacenar alimentos para poder= invernar con seguridad. Trabajan en primavera y verano, guardando bastante miel y con este producto como combustible pasan los meses de oto=F1o y invierno (con heladas, hielo y nieve en abundancia) entibiando su nido hasta la llegada de la pr=F3xima primavera. Esta preocupaci=F3n de guardar bastante miel para un largo invierno, el per=EDodo de falta de pasto y calor, fu=E9 impregnado en= las abejas por la influencia del medio ambiente a lo largo de los millones de a=F1os que all=ED vivieron. Cuando las abejas de razas europeas fueron introducidas aqu=ED, la no existencia de los largos y rigurosos inviernos a que est=E1n acostumbradas, les permiti=F3 trabajar m=E1s meses al a=F1o, desarrollar sus colonias con= menor esfuerzo (auxiliadas por el calor). Invernar con m=E1s sol y mucho menos= fr=EDo y como consecuencia, almacenar m=E1s miel, lo que hac=EDa con que los= colonos se quedaran muy contentos con los rendimientos obtenidos por sus criaciones. =09 ABEJAS AFRICANAS: EL INICIO DE LOS PROBLEMAS En 1956, fu=E9 introducido en Brasil la abeja africana. Las consecuencias= de esta introducci=F3n es el rumbo a ser tomado para la realizaci=F3n de= nuestra apicultura. El lector conocer=E1, al leer, las opiniones, las informaciones t=E9cnicas y cient=EDficas y los m=E9todos apuntados por variados t=E9cnicos= de entidades governamentales, profesores de universidades y representantes de entidades ap=EDcolas, extra=EDdos de las publicaciones mencionadas a seguir. Pero, creo necesario antes dar a conocer ciertas informaciones b=E1sicas sobre gen=E9tica ap=EDcola y cruzamientos de razas de abejas. Extra=EDdo del libro =93The Hive and the Honey Bee=94, cap=EDtulo VI= (Genetics and Breeding of the Honey Bee - Gen=E9tica y Procriaci=F3n de las Abejas), de autor=EDa de G. H. Cale Jr.(Ph. D., director de pesquisa de la firma Dadant= & Sons Inc.) y W. C. Rothenbuhler (Ph. D., profesor de entomolog=EDa,= zoolog=EDa y gen=E9tica de la Universidad de Ohio) de la p=E1gina 168, del mencionado libro, copiamos el siguiente texto: =93Haploidy of dronc bees both advantages and disdvantages to bee breeding and genetics. For instance an F2 generation cannot be produced in bees, because an F2 generation results from mating tse: F1 individuals An F1 is a =91hybrid. A drane bee, a haploid can never bea # It is # because of this however, that a drone=92s sperms are genetically indentical. One gamete from= a queen (unfertilized egg) becomes up 10 millionidentical gametes (sperms) in a drone.=94 (1)=20 El p=E1rrafo entero es de inter=E9s, aunque m=E1s que todo, la parte por= nosotros subrayada, en la cual se dice que el z=E1ngano ni siempre es un bastardo y= que corresponde a la parte que mejor aclarar=E1 el esp=EDritu contenido en las opiniones que transcribiremos a seguir. Los pr=F3ximos textos son extra=EDdos del peri=F3dico ap=EDcola =93La= Colmena=94 de 01/10/1971, p=E1ginas 8/9, y de 26/10/1971, p=E1gina 5, de autor=EDa del Dr. Coriolano Francisco Caldas F=B0 (veterinario, ex funcionario de la= Secretar=EDa de la Agricultura de la Provincia de San Pablo, secci=F3n de Apicultura de= la Divisi=F3n Zoot=E9cnica y de la Nutrici=F3n Animal. P. D. A. J.:=20 =93La introducci=F3n de abejas africanas en nuestra provincia (Piracicaba 1956/1957), directamente en territorio continental, y luego distribu=EDda entre los apicultores interesados, mismo de otras unidades de la Federaci=F3= n, gener=F3 dos problemas: -uno t=E9cnico y otro social - que, por su importancia y gravedad, reclaman del Poder P=FAblico la m=E1xima atenci=F3n, todo inter=E9s. Del punto de vista t=E9cnico, tenemos hoy, una apicultura seriamente traumatizada que trata con la florescencia que ten=EDamos a poco tiempo= atr=E1s, y que, paulatinamente, va siendo abandonada hasta por los m=E1s obstinados apicultores. Este cuadro as=ED sombr=EDo, resultado del temperamento tan feroz del= salvaje insecto, que ataca en enjambres, persistentemente sin justa causa o por causa aparente e indiscriminadamente, perturba toda actividad y ofrece un serio riesgo. Inestimables son los da=F1os ocurridos en mortalidad de= animales peque=F1os , medianos y sobre todo de gran tama=F1o. Siendo la apicultura un arte exigente en su manejo y rica de detalles que estructuran diversas t=E9cnicas y diferentes m=E9todos, que no pueden ser marginados, y considerando el temperamento del peligrosos insecto, que adem=E1s de feroz es cruel, la exploraci=F3n ap=EDcola que castigaba el= apicultor y sus auxiliares, hoy los marginaliza. Y como la mayor=EDa de los apicultores, peque=F1os y grandes, tienen sus apiarios en tierras que no les pertenece, los problemas que a=FAn deben enfrentar resultado de ataques a= las criaciones y a personas, constituyen los hechos de des=E1nimo y de abandono de la profesi=F3n (o hobby). De la generalidad de la africanizaci=F3n en Brasil, un nuevo hecho= apareci=F3: la exixtencia de la abeja mel=EDfica pas=F3 a ser notada por todos,= apicultores o no, apreciadores de la miel o no, adquiriendo el conocid=EDsimo insecto, universalmente consagrado como =FAtil, el calificativo de flagelo, de plaga, que necesita ser combatido.=94 A=F1o 1972 - origina 84 - Relatorio de la Comisi=F3n Parlamentar de= Inqu=E9rito sobre Apicultura en la Provincia de Rio Grande do Sul; la declaraci=F3n= del eng=B0. agr=F3nomo Frederico Bavaresco, director de la Estaci=F3n= Experimental de Taquari:=20 =93No hay miel en Rio Grande do Sul, no hay miel en el mercado, lo que existe son abejas que no producen. Y la causa determinante de la baja producci=F3n es la presencia de las abejas africanas, o # del continente africano.=94=20 A=F1o 1972, p=E1gina 96 de las conclusiones del CPI, por Romeo Scheibe: =93Para recuperarse la apicultura en la provincia de Rio Grande do Sul, delante de lo expuesto en el informe, trato de presentar las conclusiones que muestran el camino a seguir: 1) Inter=E9s del Ministerio de la Agricultura, a trav=E9s de un organismo especializado en la elaboraci=F3n de una legislaci=F3n propia fij=E1ndose en= la estructura ap=EDcola de car=E1cter nacional, anticipando convenios con las provincias, y =E9stos a trav=E9s de sus Secretar=EDas de Agricultura, con= las repectivas Intendencias; 2) Importaci=F3n de reinas europeas en gran cantidad, evolucionando para la criaci=F3n de reinas propias; 3) Asistencia t=E9cnica en todos los sectores donde est=E1 siendo= practicada la apicultura: 4) Recuperaci=F3n total de la Estaci=F3n Experimental de Apicultura de la Secretar=EDa de Agricultura en Taquari; 5) Facilitar los medios para la importaci=F3n de remedios, a trav=E9s de= las Secretar=EDas de Agricultura, que ser=E1n distribu=EDdas a las Intendencias (medicinas sin similares en el pa=EDs). Importaciones exentas de impuestos; 6) Control de la abeja africanizada, a trav=E9s de m=E9todos apropiados por t=E9cnicos y especialistas en el asunto, hasta su erradicaci=F3n; 7) Corrigir a trav=E9s de imperativos legales, la introducci=F3n= indiscriminada de razas de abejas en Brasil, =FAnica forma de evitar consecuencias= negativas, como enfermedades, y la conocida agresividad e improductividad de las africanas.=94 A=F1o 1972, art=EDculo =93Combate a las Abejas Africanas=94 (peri=F3dico= =93La Colmena=94), p=E1gina 209, por Bruno Schirmer: =93 El primer Congreso de Apicultura, realizado en Porto Alegre, a los d=ED= as 27/28 y 29 de octubre, fu=E9 una verdadera consagraci=F3n al combate de las abejas africanas. De los 3000 participantes, no hubo ni siquiera uno que elogiara esta =93peste=94 de abejas. Fu=E9 condenada por unanimidad por los experimentados apicultores; apicultores que en el pasado todav=EDa cre=EDan= en el aprovechamento de esta abeja imprestable se han declarado decepcionados y revoltados contra la introducci=F3n de esta =93peste=94 continental en= Brasil.=94 Tambi=E9n vale la pena conocer un poco como hacen el Prof. Dr. Warwick Estevam Kerr (introductor de las abejas africanas) y su equipo para mejorar a las abejas - lo hacen, distribuyendo reinas africanas y reinas europeas. Eso es muy importante para evitar malentendidos. A seguir transcribo parte del primer p=E1rrafo de la p=E1gina 170 del= libro =93Apicultura en Clima Caliente=94 (Simposio Internacional, 1978,= Florian=F3polis, Santa Catarina, SC), trabajo elaborado por los doctores A. C. Stort (Instituto de Biociencias, UNESP, Rio Claro, SP) y L. S. Gon=E7alves (Faculdade de Filosofia, Ciencias e Letras de Ribeir=E3o Preto, USP). =93(...) Todav=EDa, en estos =FAltimos diez a=F1os, los apicultores se han= adaptado cada vez m=E1s a la nueva apicultura con las abejas africanizadas y, con la realizaci=F3n de la selecci=F3n, en muchos apiarios, la agresividad viene= siendo a los pocos disminu=EDda: para que =E9so se pasara, merece ser destacado= tambi=E9n el gran esfuerzo del cuadro de pesquisadores del Departamento de Gen=E9tica de la Facultad de Medicina del Prof. Dr. Warwick E . Kerr, quien durante m=E1s de 10 a=F1os distribuy=F3 gratuitamente cerca de 25 mil reinas= italianas y caucasianas para apicultores de varias provincias de Brasil. Esto aport=F3 para una m=E1s r=E1pida hibridaci=F3n de las abejas y disminuci=F3n de la agresividad de las mismas.=94 De la p=E1gina 28 de los anales del 1=BA Congreso Brasile=F1o de Apicultura= en 1970, parte del trabajo presentado por el Dr. Warwick E. Kerr (profesor de gen=E9tica de la Facultad de Medicina de Ribeir=E3o Preto, USP): =93En algunas regiones, la abeja africana puede poseer las siguiente caracter=EDsticas negativas: gran agresividad e incapacidad de usar cera moldada padronizada (que se basa en los padrones de la italiana). En ese caso, debemos proceder a la substituci=F3n de las reinas de colonias menos productivas por reinas v=EDrgenes, de raza caucasiana (regiones fr=EDas) o italianas (regiones calientes). As=ED que estas reinas est=E9n en franca postura, deben recibir cuadros de z=E1nganos, con cera moldada. Vale la pena relatar tambi=E9n el trabajo presentado por los compa=F1eros y amigos de la provincia de Rio Grande do Sul, en el mismo Simposio de 1978, bajo el t=EDtulo: =93An=E1lisis de 11 a=F1os de Trabajo del Equipo de la= Asociaci=F3n de Apicultores Canoenses=94. Transcribo de la p=E1gina 180: =931969. La Apicultura en decadencia y decaimiento vertical de la= producci=F3n de la miel; situaci=F3n de los pastos ap=EDcolas; enjambraz=F3n y= agresividad incontrolables; reducci=F3n de las actividades ap=EDcolas al m=EDnimo;= incendio de apiarios y colmenas agresivas; ambiente ap=EDcola de calamidad.=20 1970. Prosecuci=F3n de la guerra en contra a las =93tigri=F1as=94= invasoras, como eran llamadas las abejas africanas en virtud de su agresividad; embest=EDan= a todo y a todos. 1971. Apenas 30% de los apicultores resistieron a las embestidas de las agresivas y de los enjambres. 1972. Con la adquisici=F3n de algunas reinas importadas de Argentina y de Bolo=F1a (Italia), fu=E9 posible dar inicio a la criaci=F3n de reinas F1,= que mismo fecundadas por z=E1nganos africanizados, mostraban resultados aceptables, con buena producci=F3n y con reducci=F3n de la agresividad. La tentativa de selecci=F3n de la abeja h=EDbrida existente no fu=E9 acatada= por el equipo, en virtud de la tendencia africanizada observada por la mayor=EDa de los apicultores en actividad. 1973. En este a=F1o fu=E9 instalado un criadero de reinas en Canoas, para atender a la creciente demanda de reinas F1, que como ya mencionado, daban buenos resultados con indicios de domesticaci=F3n adem=E1s de buena= producci=F3n y resistencia a las enfermedades; lo que fu=E9 constatado por la baja incidencia de =E9stas en los =FAltimos a=F1os. 1974. Continuaci=F3n de las observaciones y experiencias; ampliaci=F3n del programa existente; se proces=F3 la reintegraci=F3n de apicultores que= hab=EDan abandonado la apicultura, con aporte de abejas h=EDbridas y de buena producci=F3n de miel. 1975. Los apicultores actualizados en t=E9cnicas de manejo adecuado han favorecido el trabajo; han aumentado los apiarios y consecuentemente la producci=F3n de miel. La criaci=F3n de reinas F1, aument=F3 en gran escala para atender a la= demanda local y de otras regiones del Rio Grande do Sul, con promisores resultados, anunciados por los apicultores canoenses as=ED como por los del interior= (...) (...) Por el an=E1lisis y acompa=F1amiento de los trabajos de estos 11= a=F1os de fuerte actividad; por las observaciones y por las experiencias hechas por decenas de apicultores en varias municipalidades; por las variaciones gen=E9ticas presentadas en los =FAltimos a=F1os por las abejas referidas,= somos de opini=F3n que la europeizaci=F3n de los apiarios es el camino indicado.=94 De la revista =93Ciencia y Cultura=94, editada por la Sociedad Brasile=F1a= para el Progreso de la Ciencia, vol. 30, n.=BA 4 - abril de 1978, p=E1ginas 493,= de un art=EDculo del Dr. Antonio Carlos Stort:=20 =93(...) The F1 queens produced two types of males: a) 50% of african drones (...); b) 50% of italian drones=94 (2) Las reinas F1 del trabajo del Dr. Stort son reinas mestizas. Por haber producido z=E1nganos africanos (50%) e italianos (50%), podemos afirmar que son reinas mestizas de las razas africana e italiana, ya que las reinas mestizas producen z=E1nganos de dos razas; 50% de la raza de su padre y 50%= de la raza de su madre. En el libro de Harry H. Laidlaw Jr. =93Contemporary Queen Rearing=94(1981),= en las dos =FAltimas l=EDneas del p=E1rrafo dos de la p=E1gina 152, encontramos= la informaci=F3n de que los espermatozoides del z=E1ngano son gen=E9ticamente id=E9nticos al =F3vulo que gener=F3 al z=E1ngano. De los anales del Primer Congreso Brasile=F1o de Apicultura, transcribo a continuaci=F3n, parte del trabajo presentado por el Sr. Helmuth Wiese (Jefe del Proyecto de Apicultura de la D.F.D.P. - Secretar=EDa de la Agricultura= de la Provincia de Santa Catarina; actual presidente de la Confederaci=F3n Brasile=F1a de Apicultura) bajo el t=EDtulo =93Abejas africanas, sus caracter=EDsticas y t=E9cnicas de manejo=94. De las p=E1ginas 98 y 99:=20 Desventajas: =93Como caracter=EDsticas indeseables y que son motivo de preocupaci=F3n= para los apicultores, tenemos las siguientes: 1) Son muy agresivas y nerviosas. Acostumbran atacar en masa y de forma generalizada cada vez que son perturbadas o bajo influencia de condiciones no apropiadas a su biolog=EDa. Todav=EDa existen familias menos agresivas= que otras. Hecho que merece la atenci=F3n de los seleccionadores. 2) Muchos enjambres son mantenidos en peque=F1os panales de poco espacio y poca ventilaci=F3n. 3) Se vuelven migratorias cuando dejadas sin alimento, sin agua, sin espacio y expuestas al ataque de enemigos o mal manipuladas por el= apicultor; 4) Cuando puras, no aceptan la cera alveolada com=FAn con c=E9lulas para= abejas italianas, c=E1rnicas o del reino; pero, sometidas a cruzamientos con otras razas, pasan a aceptar las l=E1minas alveoladas comunes sin presentar dificultades. 5) Producen machos en alv=E9olos de obreras en los meses de octubre a diciembre aproximadamente (Kerr). 6) Son polinizadoras. Acostumbran polinizar exageradamente las casillas y cerrar la entrada del alvado en algunas =E9pocas del a=F1o, de acuerdo con= la poblaci=F3n. 7) Persiguen el enemigo a ditancias m=E1s lejanas que otras abejas; 8) Son grandes cazadoras; la revisi=F3n de los colmenares, cr=EDas,= cosechas, alimentaci=F3n e introducci=F3n de reinas deben ser hechas con m=E1s cuidado= y en horas apropiadas; 9) Consumen m=E1s alimento durante el invierno, motivado por la postura de= la reina fuera de la =E9poca y consecuente alimentaci=F3n de la familia, hecho= que favorece a la migraci=F3n. Abejas africanas no mueren dentro de la colmena, por falta de alimento; migran hasta el exterminio total, siempre en busca de alimento que esperan encontrar en alg=FAn lugar. 10) Familias peque=F1as o abejas alojadas en grupos acostumbran acompa=F1ar= a la reina cuando sale en vuelo nupcial. Esta caracter=EDstica dificulta el= uso de grupos peque=F1os para la fecundaci=F3n de reinas. 11) Acostumbran eliminar a la reina cuando el colmenar es transportado para distancias lejanas por carreteras accidentadas o conducidas de manera= violenta. La apicultura migratoria es seriamente perjudicada por esta forma de actuar. 12) Sueltan enjambres m=FAltiples, simult=E1neos con varias reinas = consecuente a la existencia de un gran n=FAmero de realeiras en un =FAnico colmenar= durante la primavera (...)=94 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=20 francis9@ruralsp.com.br =20 P.O.BOX 12185 =20 SAO PAULO - SP =20 zipcode 02098-970 =20 BRASIL =20 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Apr 1997 08:13:30 -0300 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: zardoz Subject: ABEJAS AFRICANAS: EL INICIO DE LOS PROBLEMAS Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable LA APICULTURA EN BRASIL Las abejas del g=E9nero Apis mel=EDfica no son originarias del continente americano; han sido tra=EDdas de Europa por colonizadores e inmigrantes. De acuerdo al Dr. Paulo Nogueira Neto (Manual de Apicultura), los primeros introductores de las colonias de abejas habr=E1n sido los reverendos Ant=F4n= io Aureliano, Paulo Barbosa y Sebasti=E3o Cordovil de Siqueira e Mello, en el a=F1o de 1839. Las colonias de abejas habr=E1n llegado a Brasil provenientes= de la ciudad de Porto (Portugal). De las 100 colonias embarcadas, s=F3lo 7 sobrevivieron al viaje; de inmediato han proliferado y fu=E9 de esta forma= que se inici=F3 la apicultura en Brasil. Sin embargo, en el a=F1o 1845 (conforme al prof. Hugo Muxfeldt, en la= revista El Apicultor, n. 1-1968 de la CBA), =93es posible que los alemanes,= fundadores de Nova Friburgo, en la provincia de Rio de Janeiro, hayan alcazado traer abejas en alg=FAn cortizo de paja o en alguna maceta de barro cocido.=94 Mucho han contribu=EDdo, como instructores, en la apicultura nacional, los inmigrantes alemanes Frederico Augusto Hanemann y Em=EDlio Schenk. Seguidamente, presento un breve resumen de sus biograf=EDas, de acuerdo a= los datos encontrados en la misma revista ya anteriormente relatada. El primer de los maestros que se ha merecido el t=EDtulo de =93Padre de las Abejas=94, fu=E9 Frederico Augusto Hanemann - el primer inmigrante= apicultor. Ha llegado a Brasil en 1853 y se fu=E9 a vivir en S=E3o Leopoldo (Rio Grande= do Sul) donde comenz=F3 la criaci=F3n de abejas. Inconforme con la flora de la regi=F3n, se fu=E9 a vivir a Rio Pardo en 1868, donde fund=F3 la =93Fazenda Abelina=94. En Brasil ha sido el primer constructor de un aparato centr=EDfu= go (extrator de miel) y el creador de una colmena con =93cuadros m=F3viles=94. = Ha dedicado toda su vida a las abejas; falleci=F3 en 1912 a los 94 a=F1os. El segundo maestro inmigrante alem=E1n apicultor fu=E9 Em=EDlio Schenk.= Lleg=F3 en 1895 y se fu=E9 a vivir en Curitiba. En 1897, fund=F3 la primera revista de apicultura en Brasil, que se llamaba Brasilianische Bienenzuechter (=93Apicultor Brasileiro=94); la primera edici=F3n, en alem=E1n, fu=E9= publicada en 1900. En 1903; se fu=E9 a vivir en Taquari (Rio Grande do Sul), donde inici= =F3 un gran apiario moderno - hoy, =93Parque Ap=EDcola de la Secretar=EDa de= la Agricultura=94. =09 En 1922, organiz=F3 el Colmenar Modelo, en la Exposici=F3n de Rio de= Janeiro, y a seguir fu=E9 invitado por el Ministerio de la Agricultura para ser el primer profesor de apicultura en la Escuela Federal de Agricultura, al km. 47 de la carretera Rio de Janeiro - S=E3o Paulo. En 1941, a la edad de 68 a=F1os, se ha jubilado y falleci=F3 en 1945, en Taquari, al lado de sus= abejas. Em=EDlio Schenk se ha dedicado a la difusi=F3n de las t=E9cnicas de= criaci=F3n racional de abejas; fu=E9 apicultor, escritor y profesor. Ha sido tambi=E9n quien idealiz=F3 la colmena Schenk, as=ED nombrada en su honor. Esta colmena todav=EDa se encuentra en funcionamiento desde Rio Grande do Sul hasta Rio= de Janeiro. LA CONTRIBUCI=D3N DE BRUNO SCHIRMER Respectivamente al monje Dom Amaro Van Emelen, S.O.B.,sacamos valiosas informaciones de la obra del Sr. Hugo Muxfeldt (Apicultura Para Todos) que resumiremos a seguir: Dom Amaro naci=F3 a 24/08/1853. Con mucho amor se ha dedicado al desarrollo de la apicultura; ha orientado y apoyado a todos los que lo buscaron para aprender sobre apicultura. A par de varios otros folletos, escribi=F3 y public=F3 el libro =93A Cartilha do Apicultor Brasileiro=94. Falleci=F3 en= 1946, ocasionando la p=E9rdida de m=E1s uno de los grandes maestros ap=EDcolas de= la naci=F3n brasile=F1a. =20 Como el cuarto maestro de la apicultura nacional, menciono al ga=FAcho (persona nacida en la provincia de Rio Grande do Sul) Bruno Schirmer, con el cual he convivido y trabajado por largo tiempo. Bruno era, por su naturaleza, un pesquisador y tambi=E9n hombre de mucha honestidad y patriotismo. Grande defensor de la apicultura con abejas mansas, fu=E9 uno de los fundadores de la =94Confedera=E7=E3o Brasileira de Apicultura=94; fu=E9 el fundador de otras entidades ap=EDcolas y profesor en cursos de apicultura. Ha inventado 25 petrechos ap=EDcolas y colmenares hom=F3nimos (Shirmer Tropical y Schirmer Temperada), reconocidos por todo= pa=EDs y muy utilizados, mayormente al Sur (S=E3o Paulo, Minas Gerais, Mato Grosso= do Sul, Santa Catarina y Rio Grande do Sul). Bruno Schirmer fu=E9 editor y director del peri=F3dico =93La Colmena=94,= con edici=F3n mensual y que por 28 meses circul=F3 en 32 pa=EDses del Exterior. Falleci=F3 en Canoas, Rio Grande do Sul, en el a=F1o de 1973 a los 68 a=F1o= s y no hubo prosecuci=F3n de la edici=F3n de su peri=F3dico. Desde la =E9poca en que F. A. Hanemann lleg=F3 a Brasil hasta 1956, a=F1o= de la introducci=F3n de las abejas africanas (Apis melifica adamsonii), la apicultura nacional crec=EDa y progresaba a pasos agigantados. Los colonizadores europeos que aqu=ED llegaban y se instalaban sol=EDan= traer semillas de plantas para producir sus alimentos; plantas medicinales para su medicina casera y, obviamente, tambi=E9n las abejas que siempre abastecieron al hombre con su medicamento polivalente - la miel. Para todos los pueblos antiguos, la miel fu=E9 siempre un gran remedio, y la abeja, un insecto sagrado. Hab=EDa entonces, por tradici=F3n de los pueblos europeos, una consciencia e informaci=F3n bastante arraigadas en cada colono con relaci=F3= n a la importancia de la abeja. Principalmente porque las abejas ten=EDan un comportamiento d=F3cil y permit=EDan f=E1cil convivencia con el hombre y= con los otros animales dom=E9sticos. =C9sto mucho contribu=EDa para la difusi=F3n de la apicultura en nuestro= pa=EDs, principalmente en las provincias del sur, donde la actuacci=F3n de los maestros ap=EDcolas encontraba facilidades como su propio idioma, el alem=E1= n, que ellos hablaban y era m=E1s difundido por all=ED. De Rio Grande do Sul= hasta Rio de Janeiro se localizaba el progreso mayor de la apicultura en Brasil. Hab=EDan grandes productores de miel, se editaban revistas, se vend=EDan= muchos n=FAcleos de abejas europeas, se practicaba la apicultura con placer,= poes=EDa, facilidad y sin molestar a nadie. Esto porque las abejas de las razas hasta entonces introducidas (A.M. Mell=EDfica, abeja oscura; A.M. Ligustica, italiana amarilla o dorada; A.M. Carnica, abeja austr=EDaca de color gris)= son todas mansas y permiten que sean monoseadas apenas de m=E1scara y camisa de manga corta. Aqu=ED, entonces, los europeos, volv=EDan a encontrar la abeja mansa con la cual estaban =EDntimamente ligados por tradici=F3n y necesidad de= sobrevivencia; pasaban a criarlas, obteniendo excelentes cosechas de miel sin mucho= esfuerzo. Las abejas que viven hace millones de a=F1os en el continente europeo, desarrollaron la caracter=EDstica de almacenar alimentos para poder= invernar con seguridad. Trabajan en primavera y verano, guardando bastante miel y con este producto como combustible pasan los meses de oto=F1o y invierno (con heladas, hielo y nieve en abundancia) entibiando su nido hasta la llegada de la pr=F3xima primavera. Esta preocupaci=F3n de guardar bastante miel para un largo invierno, el per=EDodo de falta de pasto y calor, fu=E9 impregnado en= las abejas por la influencia del medio ambiente a lo largo de los millones de a=F1os que all=ED vivieron. Cuando las abejas de razas europeas fueron introducidas aqu=ED, la no existencia de los largos y rigurosos inviernos a que est=E1n acostumbradas, les permiti=F3 trabajar m=E1s meses al a=F1o, desarrollar sus colonias con= menor esfuerzo (auxiliadas por el calor). Invernar con m=E1s sol y mucho menos= fr=EDo y como consecuencia, almacenar m=E1s miel, lo que hac=EDa con que los= colonos se quedaran muy contentos con los rendimientos obtenidos por sus criaciones. =09 ABEJAS AFRICANAS: EL INICIO DE LOS PROBLEMAS En 1956, fu=E9 introducido en Brasil la abeja africana. Las consecuencias= de esta introducci=F3n es el rumbo a ser tomado para la realizaci=F3n de= nuestra apicultura. El lector conocer=E1, al leer, las opiniones, las informaciones t=E9cnicas y cient=EDficas y los m=E9todos apuntados por variados t=E9cnicos= de entidades governamentales, profesores de universidades y representantes de entidades ap=EDcolas, extra=EDdos de las publicaciones mencionadas a seguir. Pero, creo necesario antes dar a conocer ciertas informaciones b=E1sicas sobre gen=E9tica ap=EDcola y cruzamientos de razas de abejas. Extra=EDdo del libro =93The Hive and the Honey Bee=94, cap=EDtulo VI= (Genetics and Breeding of the Honey Bee - Gen=E9tica y Procriaci=F3n de las Abejas), de autor=EDa de G. H. Cale Jr.(Ph. D., director de pesquisa de la firma Dadant= & Sons Inc.) y W. C. Rothenbuhler (Ph. D., profesor de entomolog=EDa,= zoolog=EDa y gen=E9tica de la Universidad de Ohio) de la p=E1gina 168, del mencionado libro, copiamos el siguiente texto: =93Haploidy of dronc bees both advantages and disdvantages to bee breeding and genetics. For instance an F2 generation cannot be produced in bees, because an F2 generation results from mating tse: F1 individuals An F1 is a =91hybrid. A drane bee, a haploid can never bea # It is # because of this however, that a drone=92s sperms are genetically indentical. One gamete from= a queen (unfertilized egg) becomes up 10 millionidentical gametes (sperms) in a drone.=94 (1)=20 El p=E1rrafo entero es de inter=E9s, aunque m=E1s que todo, la parte por= nosotros subrayada, en la cual se dice que el z=E1ngano ni siempre es un bastardo y= que corresponde a la parte que mejor aclarar=E1 el esp=EDritu contenido en las opiniones que transcribiremos a seguir. Los pr=F3ximos textos son extra=EDdos del peri=F3dico ap=EDcola =93La= Colmena=94 de 01/10/1971, p=E1ginas 8/9, y de 26/10/1971, p=E1gina 5, de autor=EDa del Dr. Coriolano Francisco Caldas F=B0 (veterinario, ex funcionario de la= Secretar=EDa de la Agricultura de la Provincia de San Pablo, secci=F3n de Apicultura de= la Divisi=F3n Zoot=E9cnica y de la Nutrici=F3n Animal. P. D. A. J.:=20 =93La introducci=F3n de abejas africanas en nuestra provincia (Piracicaba 1956/1957), directamente en territorio continental, y luego distribu=EDda entre los apicultores interesados, mismo de otras unidades de la Federaci=F3= n, gener=F3 dos problemas: -uno t=E9cnico y otro social - que, por su importancia y gravedad, reclaman del Poder P=FAblico la m=E1xima atenci=F3n, todo inter=E9s. Del punto de vista t=E9cnico, tenemos hoy, una apicultura seriamente traumatizada que trata con la florescencia que ten=EDamos a poco tiempo= atr=E1s, y que, paulatinamente, va siendo abandonada hasta por los m=E1s obstinados apicultores. Este cuadro as=ED sombr=EDo, resultado del temperamento tan feroz del= salvaje insecto, que ataca en enjambres, persistentemente sin justa causa o por causa aparente e indiscriminadamente, perturba toda actividad y ofrece un serio riesgo. Inestimables son los da=F1os ocurridos en mortalidad de= animales peque=F1os , medianos y sobre todo de gran tama=F1o. Siendo la apicultura un arte exigente en su manejo y rica de detalles que estructuran diversas t=E9cnicas y diferentes m=E9todos, que no pueden ser marginados, y considerando el temperamento del peligrosos insecto, que adem=E1s de feroz es cruel, la exploraci=F3n ap=EDcola que castigaba el= apicultor y sus auxiliares, hoy los marginaliza. Y como la mayor=EDa de los apicultores, peque=F1os y grandes, tienen sus apiarios en tierras que no les pertenece, los problemas que a=FAn deben enfrentar resultado de ataques a= las criaciones y a personas, constituyen los hechos de des=E1nimo y de abandono de la profesi=F3n (o hobby). De la generalidad de la africanizaci=F3n en Brasil, un nuevo hecho= apareci=F3: la exixtencia de la abeja mel=EDfica pas=F3 a ser notada por todos,= apicultores o no, apreciadores de la miel o no, adquiriendo el conocid=EDsimo insecto, universalmente consagrado como =FAtil, el calificativo de flagelo, de plaga, que necesita ser combatido.=94 A=F1o 1972 - origina 84 - Relatorio de la Comisi=F3n Parlamentar de= Inqu=E9rito sobre Apicultura en la Provincia de Rio Grande do Sul; la declaraci=F3n= del eng=B0. agr=F3nomo Frederico Bavaresco, director de la Estaci=F3n= Experimental de Taquari:=20 =93No hay miel en Rio Grande do Sul, no hay miel en el mercado, lo que existe son abejas que no producen. Y la causa determinante de la baja producci=F3n es la presencia de las abejas africanas, o # del continente africano.=94=20 A=F1o 1972, p=E1gina 96 de las conclusiones del CPI, por Romeo Scheibe: =93Para recuperarse la apicultura en la provincia de Rio Grande do Sul, delante de lo expuesto en el informe, trato de presentar las conclusiones que muestran el camino a seguir: 1) Inter=E9s del Ministerio de la Agricultura, a trav=E9s de un organismo especializado en la elaboraci=F3n de una legislaci=F3n propia fij=E1ndose en= la estructura ap=EDcola de car=E1cter nacional, anticipando convenios con las provincias, y =E9stos a trav=E9s de sus Secretar=EDas de Agricultura, con= las repectivas Intendencias; 2) Importaci=F3n de reinas europeas en gran cantidad, evolucionando para la criaci=F3n de reinas propias; 3) Asistencia t=E9cnica en todos los sectores donde est=E1 siendo= practicada la apicultura: 4) Recuperaci=F3n total de la Estaci=F3n Experimental de Apicultura de la Secretar=EDa de Agricultura en Taquari; 5) Facilitar los medios para la importaci=F3n de remedios, a trav=E9s de= las Secretar=EDas de Agricultura, que ser=E1n distribu=EDdas a las Intendencias (medicinas sin similares en el pa=EDs). Importaciones exentas de impuestos; 6) Control de la abeja africanizada, a trav=E9s de m=E9todos apropiados por t=E9cnicos y especialistas en el asunto, hasta su erradicaci=F3n; 7) Corrigir a trav=E9s de imperativos legales, la introducci=F3n= indiscriminada de razas de abejas en Brasil, =FAnica forma de evitar consecuencias= negativas, como enfermedades, y la conocida agresividad e improductividad de las africanas.=94 A=F1o 1972, art=EDculo =93Combate a las Abejas Africanas=94 (peri=F3dico= =93La Colmena=94), p=E1gina 209, por Bruno Schirmer: =93 El primer Congreso de Apicultura, realizado en Porto Alegre, a los d=ED= as 27/28 y 29 de octubre, fu=E9 una verdadera consagraci=F3n al combate de las abejas africanas. De los 3000 participantes, no hubo ni siquiera uno que elogiara esta =93peste=94 de abejas. Fu=E9 condenada por unanimidad por los experimentados apicultores; apicultores que en el pasado todav=EDa cre=EDan= en el aprovechamento de esta abeja imprestable se han declarado decepcionados y revoltados contra la introducci=F3n de esta =93peste=94 continental en= Brasil.=94 Tambi=E9n vale la pena conocer un poco como hacen el Prof. Dr. Warwick Estevam Kerr (introductor de las abejas africanas) y su equipo para mejorar a las abejas - lo hacen, distribuyendo reinas africanas y reinas europeas. Eso es muy importante para evitar malentendidos. A seguir transcribo parte del primer p=E1rrafo de la p=E1gina 170 del= libro =93Apicultura en Clima Caliente=94 (Simposio Internacional, 1978,= Florian=F3polis, Santa Catarina, SC), trabajo elaborado por los doctores A. C. Stort (Instituto de Biociencias, UNESP, Rio Claro, SP) y L. S. Gon=E7alves (Faculdade de Filosofia, Ciencias e Letras de Ribeir=E3o Preto, USP). =93(...) Todav=EDa, en estos =FAltimos diez a=F1os, los apicultores se han= adaptado cada vez m=E1s a la nueva apicultura con las abejas africanizadas y, con la realizaci=F3n de la selecci=F3n, en muchos apiarios, la agresividad viene= siendo a los pocos disminu=EDda: para que =E9so se pasara, merece ser destacado= tambi=E9n el gran esfuerzo del cuadro de pesquisadores del Departamento de Gen=E9tica de la Facultad de Medicina del Prof. Dr. Warwick E . Kerr, quien durante m=E1s de 10 a=F1os distribuy=F3 gratuitamente cerca de 25 mil reinas= italianas y caucasianas para apicultores de varias provincias de Brasil. Esto aport=F3 para una m=E1s r=E1pida hibridaci=F3n de las abejas y disminuci=F3n de la agresividad de las mismas.=94 De la p=E1gina 28 de los anales del 1=BA Congreso Brasile=F1o de Apicultura= en 1970, parte del trabajo presentado por el Dr. Warwick E. Kerr (profesor de gen=E9tica de la Facultad de Medicina de Ribeir=E3o Preto, USP): =93En algunas regiones, la abeja africana puede poseer las siguiente caracter=EDsticas negativas: gran agresividad e incapacidad de usar cera moldada padronizada (que se basa en los padrones de la italiana). En ese caso, debemos proceder a la substituci=F3n de las reinas de colonias menos productivas por reinas v=EDrgenes, de raza caucasiana (regiones fr=EDas) o italianas (regiones calientes). As=ED que estas reinas est=E9n en franca postura, deben recibir cuadros de z=E1nganos, con cera moldada. Vale la pena relatar tambi=E9n el trabajo presentado por los compa=F1eros y amigos de la provincia de Rio Grande do Sul, en el mismo Simposio de 1978, bajo el t=EDtulo: =93An=E1lisis de 11 a=F1os de Trabajo del Equipo de la= Asociaci=F3n de Apicultores Canoenses=94. Transcribo de la p=E1gina 180: =931969. La Apicultura en decadencia y decaimiento vertical de la= producci=F3n de la miel; situaci=F3n de los pastos ap=EDcolas; enjambraz=F3n y= agresividad incontrolables; reducci=F3n de las actividades ap=EDcolas al m=EDnimo;= incendio de apiarios y colmenas agresivas; ambiente ap=EDcola de calamidad.=20 1970. Prosecuci=F3n de la guerra en contra a las =93tigri=F1as=94= invasoras, como eran llamadas las abejas africanas en virtud de su agresividad; embest=EDan= a todo y a todos. 1971. Apenas 30% de los apicultores resistieron a las embestidas de las agresivas y de los enjambres. 1972. Con la adquisici=F3n de algunas reinas importadas de Argentina y de Bolo=F1a (Italia), fu=E9 posible dar inicio a la criaci=F3n de reinas F1,= que mismo fecundadas por z=E1nganos africanizados, mostraban resultados aceptables, con buena producci=F3n y con reducci=F3n de la agresividad. La tentativa de selecci=F3n de la abeja h=EDbrida existente no fu=E9 acatada= por el equipo, en virtud de la tendencia africanizada observada por la mayor=EDa de los apicultores en actividad. 1973. En este a=F1o fu=E9 instalado un criadero de reinas en Canoas, para atender a la creciente demanda de reinas F1, que como ya mencionado, daban buenos resultados con indicios de domesticaci=F3n adem=E1s de buena= producci=F3n y resistencia a las enfermedades; lo que fu=E9 constatado por la baja incidencia de =E9stas en los =FAltimos a=F1os. 1974. Continuaci=F3n de las observaciones y experiencias; ampliaci=F3n del programa existente; se proces=F3 la reintegraci=F3n de apicultores que= hab=EDan abandonado la apicultura, con aporte de abejas h=EDbridas y de buena producci=F3n de miel. 1975. Los apicultores actualizados en t=E9cnicas de manejo adecuado han favorecido el trabajo; han aumentado los apiarios y consecuentemente la producci=F3n de miel. La criaci=F3n de reinas F1, aument=F3 en gran escala para atender a la= demanda local y de otras regiones del Rio Grande do Sul, con promisores resultados, anunciados por los apicultores canoenses as=ED como por los del interior= (...) (...) Por el an=E1lisis y acompa=F1amiento de los trabajos de estos 11= a=F1os de fuerte actividad; por las observaciones y por las experiencias hechas por decenas de apicultores en varias municipalidades; por las variaciones gen=E9ticas presentadas en los =FAltimos a=F1os por las abejas referidas,= somos de opini=F3n que la europeizaci=F3n de los apiarios es el camino indicado.=94 De la revista =93Ciencia y Cultura=94, editada por la Sociedad Brasile=F1a= para el Progreso de la Ciencia, vol. 30, n.=BA 4 - abril de 1978, p=E1ginas 493,= de un art=EDculo del Dr. Antonio Carlos Stort:=20 =93(...) The F1 queens produced two types of males: a) 50% of african drones (...); b) 50% of italian drones=94 (2) Las reinas F1 del trabajo del Dr. Stort son reinas mestizas. Por haber producido z=E1nganos africanos (50%) e italianos (50%), podemos afirmar que son reinas mestizas de las razas africana e italiana, ya que las reinas mestizas producen z=E1nganos de dos razas; 50% de la raza de su padre y 50%= de la raza de su madre. En el libro de Harry H. Laidlaw Jr. =93Contemporary Queen Rearing=94(1981),= en las dos =FAltimas l=EDneas del p=E1rrafo dos de la p=E1gina 152, encontramos= la informaci=F3n de que los espermatozoides del z=E1ngano son gen=E9ticamente id=E9nticos al =F3vulo que gener=F3 al z=E1ngano. De los anales del Primer Congreso Brasile=F1o de Apicultura, transcribo a continuaci=F3n, parte del trabajo presentado por el Sr. Helmuth Wiese (Jefe del Proyecto de Apicultura de la D.F.D.P. - Secretar=EDa de la Agricultura= de la Provincia de Santa Catarina; actual presidente de la Confederaci=F3n Brasile=F1a de Apicultura) bajo el t=EDtulo =93Abejas africanas, sus caracter=EDsticas y t=E9cnicas de manejo=94. De las p=E1ginas 98 y 99:=20 Desventajas: =93Como caracter=EDsticas indeseables y que son motivo de preocupaci=F3n= para los apicultores, tenemos las siguientes: 1) Son muy agresivas y nerviosas. Acostumbran atacar en masa y de forma generalizada cada vez que son perturbadas o bajo influencia de condiciones no apropiadas a su biolog=EDa. Todav=EDa existen familias menos agresivas= que otras. Hecho que merece la atenci=F3n de los seleccionadores. 2) Muchos enjambres son mantenidos en peque=F1os panales de poco espacio y poca ventilaci=F3n. 3) Se vuelven migratorias cuando dejadas sin alimento, sin agua, sin espacio y expuestas al ataque de enemigos o mal manipuladas por el= apicultor; 4) Cuando puras, no aceptan la cera alveolada com=FAn con c=E9lulas para= abejas italianas, c=E1rnicas o del reino; pero, sometidas a cruzamientos con otras razas, pasan a aceptar las l=E1minas alveoladas comunes sin presentar dificultades. 5) Producen machos en alv=E9olos de obreras en los meses de octubre a diciembre aproximadamente (Kerr). 6) Son polinizadoras. Acostumbran polinizar exageradamente las casillas y cerrar la entrada del alvado en algunas =E9pocas del a=F1o, de acuerdo con= la poblaci=F3n. 7) Persiguen el enemigo a ditancias m=E1s lejanas que otras abejas; 8) Son grandes cazadoras; la revisi=F3n de los colmenares, cr=EDas,= cosechas, alimentaci=F3n e introducci=F3n de reinas deben ser hechas con m=E1s cuidado= y en horas apropiadas; 9) Consumen m=E1s alimento durante el invierno, motivado por la postura de= la reina fuera de la =E9poca y consecuente alimentaci=F3n de la familia, hecho= que favorece a la migraci=F3n. Abejas africanas no mueren dentro de la colmena, por falta de alimento; migran hasta el exterminio total, siempre en busca de alimento que esperan encontrar en alg=FAn lugar. 10) Familias peque=F1as o abejas alojadas en grupos acostumbran acompa=F1ar= a la reina cuando sale en vuelo nupcial. Esta caracter=EDstica dificulta el= uso de grupos peque=F1os para la fecundaci=F3n de reinas. 11) Acostumbran eliminar a la reina cuando el colmenar es transportado para distancias lejanas por carreteras accidentadas o conducidas de manera= violenta. La apicultura migratoria es seriamente perjudicada por esta forma de actuar. 12) Sueltan enjambres m=FAltiples, simult=E1neos con varias reinas = consecuente a la existencia de un gran n=FAmero de realeiras en un =FAnico colmenar= durante la primavera (...)=94 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=20 francis9@ruralsp.com.br =20 P.O.BOX 12185 =20 SAO PAULO - SP =20 zipcode 02098-970 =20 BRASIL =20 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Apr 1997 11:05:00 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Palm, Kevin R. (LLP)" Subject: Re: ABEJAS AFRICANAS: EL INICIO DE LOS PROBLEMAS Does anyone know the whereabouts of an English translation of this information?? ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Apr 1997 10:13:47 -0500 Reply-To: beeworks@muskoka.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: David Eyre Organization: The Beeworks Subject: Re: Switching Brood Chambers In-Reply-To: <199704091242.IAA05721@cdc3.cdc.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT On 9 Apr 97 at 8:38, Frank & Phronsie Humphrey wrote: Switching Brood Chambers > I realize that I'm about to start an argument but here goes. > bottom will become unused. One or two books I have read are absolutely > against this practice as being to disruptive. I tend to agree with this. > The queens that use both chambers on their own, tend to lay in a very large > pattern and thus have a larger population. When reversing the brood > chambers, the brood nest is broken in to two small nest and the bees have > to reconstruct the oval shape nest each time. > > This year I am selecting my breeder queens from among those that do not > require reversal. I plan to continue to try to eliminate the practice of > reversal in my apiary > because of the extra work involved and because it is so disruptive. Those > queens that require reversal will be replaced. I promise not to argue, discuss, yes, there is a difference!! One point which is never mentioned, and I feel it is relevant, is the removal of the crown of honey above the cluster caused by the reversal of boxes. Bear with me for a moment. A standard hive in early spring in two boxes will have honey in a crown above the cluster. The golden rule states "the queen will not go over honey to lay eggs". So, the boxes are reversed, now placing the honey at the top of the lower box. Unless the bees uncap, removing the honey barrier, the queen can't get through to lay up the top box. A better manipulation would be to put a hive tool through the cappings on reversal, now the bees will move it all out of the queens way. I submit these are the bees we should be breeding from, as these do not unnecessarily uncap stores without real need. This is not a problem of the queen or bees, more a failure of the keeper to provide the correct manipulation. ********************************************************* The Bee Works, 9 Progress Drive Unit 2, Orillia, Ontario, Canada. L3V 6H1 David Eyre, Owner. Phone/Fax 705 326 7171 Dealers for E.H.Thorne & B.J.Sherriff UK http://www.muskoka.net/~beeworks ********************************************************* ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Apr 1997 12:18:11 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Frederick L. Hollen" Subject: Re: Essential Oils In-Reply-To: <970407221742_-534698134@emout14.mail.aol.com>; from "Brian R Tucker" at Apr 7, 97 10:19 pm According to Brian R Tucker: > > I am just wanting to know if any one had any and what type of success with > essential oils later fall and over winter. I overwintered 2 hives 1 with > patties with oils and 1 without. The hive that had oils if doing wounderful > and no signs of varroa. But the one without is very slow out of the gate here > and does have some might in the drone brood. Thanks for comments. > > B. Tucker > Polo MO > Hello, I treated my bees with a Crisco/sugar patty containing oil of wintergreen, as well as with the standard Apistan treatment. Of eleven hives, I lost two, but they appeared to be the victims of robbing. The other nine came through in great shape and are doing quite well. I know there is no way to know which treatment was effective, but together they seem to have worked OK. I'm located in Augusta County, int the northwestern part of Virginia. Spring seems well on its way here, despite a few cold days just now Fred ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Apr 1997 11:23:38 -0500 Reply-To: tvf@umich.edu Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Theodore V. Fischer" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Rett Thorpe wrote: > >I am planning on just > sitting a bucket of syrup on the inner cover with a super and top cover > over it. I plan to put some sticks or something in the bucket for the > bees to land on. I have heard of drilling a bunch of little holes in a > bucket lid then inverting it, but I cant see any reason not to do what I > previously described. Could someone please tell me if my method will > work or am I missing the boat completely? The method you plan is not too good because, even though you provide sticks for the bees to land on, many will not make it and will drown in the syrup. Inverting a punched covered bucket is the "normal" way, but as has been already said will result in leakage when the hive warms up in the morning. The ziplock bag method is the best - I and everyone else reporting here has had excellent results with it. Ted Fischer Dextyer, Michigan, USA ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Apr 1997 12:29:42 -0500 Reply-To: dvisrael@earthlink.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Worker Bee Subject: Re: Newbie Question: Apistan & Packages MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Greg, You should be seeing the poplars and locust bloom an a couple of weeks. They are blooming here east of Raliegh now. (About two or three weeks early). You should not have to give pollan but the bees need sugar water to pull foundation. A 50/50 mixture as long as they will take it will not hurt. As for medication, ask 5 different beekeepers and get 6 different answers and all will be right. Your package bees are supposed to be free of diseases and pests. You may treat if you like. You will have a sourwood bloom ending the last of July and should treat for all diseases and pests at that time. Don > > I'll be picking up two three-pound packages at Brushy Mountain's "Bee Day" > a week from this Saturday. By that point, here in the southern half of > Piedmont North Carolina, the maples and oaks should be about done in terms > of bloom. The choke cherries are in full bloom now, so I imagine they'll be > done, too. The blackberries, though, of which we have LOTS within a mile or > so, should be just starting to peak. (At least, I hope they'll hold on that > long.) > > I know from the many books I've read that I should feed sugar syrup. I'm > less clear -- given the bloom scenario above, whether pollen or pollen > substitute is necessary. > > I'm still less clear on medications. Should I leave apistan and/or extender > patty (with or without medication) on 'til after adding a second full-sized > hive body? Or should I dispense with medication 'til fall. > > Thanks for any and all advice. > > Greg > > ____________________________________________________ > Greg Hankins Mt. Gilead, NC > ghankins@ac.net ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Apr 1997 14:20:51 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Albert W Needham Subject: Re: Wasps flying over lawn On Wed, 9 Apr 1997 09:01:14 -0400 James D Satterfield writes: >My son observed "hundreds" of wasps flying low over a lawn. The wasps >were apparently flying in "searching" patterns, perhaps a breeding >aggregation. They were dark in coloration, predominantly black. Jim: Don't know for sure, but they may be in the family 'ichneumonidae', couldn't say if that is the right 'family'. We have some that like the partially sandy soil in our front lawn. They dig a hole like a dog with the dirt flying out. Then they lay an egg, bring in a nice juicy live (but stunned) green bug and shove that in the hole and then plug it up. The bug must be for the larvae to feed on. Maybe one of our BEE-L Science types can be more accurate. Al Al Needham--Scituate,MA,USA--awneedham@juno.com Author Of "The HoneyBee"--An Educational Program Visit "Learn About Honey Bees And Beekeeping" At: - http://www.xensei.com/users/alwine ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Apr 1997 14:20:51 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Albert W Needham Subject: Re: Feeding bees On Wed, 9 Apr 1997 10:06:31 +0100 Joel Govostes writes: >Hi Rett. > >One easy way to feed is to just take a mayonnaise (or gallon) glass >jar, fill it with sugar water, poke a dozen or so small nail-tip holes in >the lid, cap it tight,..... You can also use the 'baggie method'. Essentially all this amounts to is put an empty half super over the hive...fill up a large plastic zip-loc bag with your syrup and lay it flat across the top bars. Put a couple of slits about two-three inches on each side of the top side of the plastic baggie, push your finger down to let a little syrup flow out and there you go. Check periodically to see when they need a new baggie.....the zip-loc resealable freezer baggie works well and fits just right. Of course you the put the inner lid and cover back over the empty half (or use a full if you don't have a half size) super. Al Al Needham--Scituate,MA,USA--awneedham@juno.com Author Of "The HoneyBee"--An Educational Program Visit "Learn About Honey Bees And Beekeeping" At: - http://www.xensei.com/users/alwine ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Apr 1997 13:27:03 +0900 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "luichart.woollens@virgin.net" Organization: Luichart Woollens Subject: Re: Save Our Drones MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > JB>> Is there any way to keep a group of drones alive over the winter ? I have this problem as well. I can't start breeding until about the middle of June because there are no drones till then. I wonder if anyone has any experience of keeping a colony headed by an drone laying queen alive over the winter? > > JB>Just today one beekeeper told me that he observed perhaps 100 drones > >in a queenless family. He said that there was no brood in the comb, > >so these drones most likely survive the winter. > Like Andy my first thought was that this was caused by laying workers but queenless hives *do* keep their drones much longer that queenright colonies so it may be correct that this hive maintained its drones all winter. If it had been laying workers then I would have expected to find some drone brood. However those drones would be very old and, I think not much use for breeding. Harry Scotland. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Apr 1997 15:37:38 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: James P Parkman Subject: Re: Wasps flying over lawn In-Reply-To: <19970409.141859.3590.2.awneedham@juno.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII The wasp to which Al is referring is probably in the family Sphecidae; common name for this group is digger wasps. Regards, Pat Parkman U. Tennessee, Knoxville ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Apr 1997 11:33:08 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ted Wout Subject: Newbie Question: Apistan & Packages Since you are not going to be harvesting any honey from a hive of packaged bees any time soon, it would be best to treat immediately, preventing any problems. If the hive starts looking like it might produce a surplus, remove any medication before putting on honey supers. As a rule you can expect a new hive from package bees starting out on foundation to do well if they draw all comb in two hive bodies and fill the upper with honey for winter stores. This is especially true with the great demand for packages and the late spring deliveries we're experiencing this year. Ted Wout, 3rd year, 10 hives Red Oak, TX ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Apr 1997 13:03:02 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Bill Van Roekel Subject: Re: Varroa Sticky Traps - Can someone help me find some... In-Reply-To: <334AF069.1B47@webspan.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I have heard, though I have not tried it, that you can spray PAM, or a similar anti-stick spray on poster board or the like. Grid lines and size would be no problem then. >As part of some Varroa mite testing I'm involved in, I really could use >sticky papers with grids on them to aid in dead mite detection. None of >the 'traps' in the big name catalogs really fit the bill. However, in >the March 1997 ABJ, page 207, there is pictured a "DEWILL VARROA MITE >DETECTOR INSERT." These would be perfect. Does anyone out there know who >sells them, or maybe have an address for Dewill? Any help would be much >appreciated. > >Thanks > >Mike > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Apr 1997 16:16:39 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Richard Blohm Subject: Re: Feeding bees In a message dated 97-04-09 15:06:39 EDT, you write: << You can also use the 'baggie method'. Essentially all this amounts to is put an empty half super over the hive...fill up a large plastic zip-loc bag with your syrup and lay it flat across the top bars. Put a couple of slits about two-three inches on each side of the top side of the plastic baggie, push your finger down to let a little syrup flow out and there you go. Check periodically to see when they need a new baggie.....the zip-loc resealable freezer baggie works well and fits just right. Of course you the put the inner lid and cover back over the empty half (or use a full if you don't have a half size) super. >> Anyone figure out how to refill these so one does not have to waste the empty bags? Rich Blohm, Huntington, NY ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Apr 1997 16:27:00 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Richard Blohm Subject: Re: Save Our Drones In a message dated 97-04-09 15:10:05 EDT, you write: << I have this problem as well. I can't start breeding until about the middle of June because there are no drones till then. I wonder if anyone has any experience of keeping a colony headed by an drone laying queen alive over the winter? >> Yes you can winter over a virgin queen to produce Drones in early spring. The book that best describes it is; Practical Queen Production in the North by Carl A. Jurica, Ph.D. 325 Wells Street Johnstown, NY 12095 You can get the book directly from him or try Beekeeping Education Service at LJConnor@AOL.com Good Luck Rich B ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Apr 1997 16:48:38 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: David Verville Subject: Re: ABEJAS AFRICANAS: EL INICIO DE LOS PROBLEMAS MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Palm, Kevin R. (LLP) wrote: > > Does anyone know the whereabouts of an English translation of this > information?? I've got my best guy on this and will send it ASAP. Dave Verville ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Apr 1997 16:58:40 -0700 Reply-To: mister-t@clinic.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Bill Truesdell Subject: Overwintering Success MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit As far as oils and their success on overwintering this season, my guess is that it was a bad winter to judge any treatment. Why? I had one hive I gave up on last fall, so to prevent robbing and since there were so few bees in the hive that they were going to die anyway, I closed the entrance, tight. There were no ventilation holes and the only exit was the notched inner cover- notch on top. No treatment, why waste it on a soon to be dead hive. You know what's coming now. Yep. Doing fine. There is still a handfull of bees and they are building up. Everything was done wrong, in total violation of all I learned. Problem is that the bees did not read the book. So I would not judge the effect of oils or anything on the bees this winter. With varroa down, bees more tolerant of tracheal mites and a "mild" winter about any treatment, or in my case lack of it, would give good but totally incorrect results. When varroa has a chance to come back and when we have a hard winter we will have a better benchmark. This was the first winter in Maine that I did not lose any hives. I used the standard treatments of crisco and apistan. The only honey I harvested after August was from supers over the inner cover, so the bees had good summer honey to overwinter on. I think that is the best treatment, because I lose my hives to dystentary first with mites helping the weakened bees along. The buttoned up hive had summer honey and no dysentary. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Apr 1997 23:25:00 +0200 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Mahmoud H. Kamel..." Subject: Need Help on Cloning Comments: To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear Colleagues, My daughter is presenting a paper on human cloning at her university, it's a hot issue in Egypt , but nothing is clear for whether from Ethical, Religion or scientific compatibility. Any suggestions, ideas or sources (on Internet) to help her in accomplishing her task. Thanks for your help. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Apr 1997 16:27:43 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ken Lawrence Subject: Re: Feeding bees MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Richard Blohm wrote: > > In a message dated 97-04-09 15:06:39 EDT, you write: > > << You can also use the 'baggie method'. Essentially all this amounts > to is put an empty half super over the hive...fill up a large plastic > zip-loc bag with your syrup and lay it flat across the top bars. Put > a couple of slits about two-three inches on each side of the top > side of the plastic baggie, push your finger down to let a little syrup > flow out and there you go. Check periodically to see when they need > a new baggie.....the zip-loc resealable freezer baggie works well > and fits just right. Of course you the put the inner lid and cover > back over the empty half (or use a full if you don't have a half size) > super. > >> > Anyone figure out how to refill these so one does not have to waste the empty > bags? > > Rich Blohm, > Huntington, NY Hello Rich: Ken Lawrence here in Trimble Mo. I just leave it flat on the frames bars and stick a finger into he split and raise up and fill it back up with syrup. The bag will swell right back out the way it was. I use them over. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Apr 1997 17:28:14 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Albert W Needham Subject: Re: Feeding bees On Wed, 9 Apr 1997 16:16:39 -0400 Richard Blohm writes: >Anyone figure out how to refill these so one does not have to waste >the empty bags? Kind of difficult Rich since you need to cut two razor slits or so in them. The Freezer type one gallon zip-locks sold in supermarkets aren't expensive. However, if you are as tight :-) as my 78 yr old Ukrainian Beekeeper friend.. ....use the upside down jar method. Maybe you can swipe your sugar from restaurants when you get a cup of coffee....:-) Al Al Needham--Scituate,MA,USA--awneedham@juno.com Author Of "The HoneyBee"--An Educational Program Visit "Learn About Honey Bees And Beekeeping" At: - http://www.xensei.com/users/alwine ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Apr 1997 17:17:11 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ken Lawrence Subject: Re: Feeding bees MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Albert W Needham wrote: > > On Wed, 9 Apr 1997 16:16:39 -0400 Richard Blohm > writes: > > >Anyone figure out how to refill these so one does not have to waste > >the empty bags? > > Kind of difficult Rich since you need to cut two razor slits or so in > them. > The Freezer type one gallon zip-locks sold in supermarkets aren't > expensive. > > However, if you are as tight :-) as my 78 yr old Ukrainian Beekeeper > friend.. > ....use the upside down jar method. > > Maybe you can swipe your sugar from restaurants when you get a cup > of coffee....:-) > > Al > > Al Needham--Scituate,MA,USA--awneedham@juno.com > Author Of "The HoneyBee"--An Educational Program > Visit "Learn About Honey Bees And Beekeeping" > At: - http://www.xensei.com/users/alwine I only use one slit about 2.5 inches long. Ken ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Apr 1997 19:54:20 +0000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Digest Jack Hamilton Subject: Association on line I am a member of the Executive of the Nova Scotia Beekeepers Association. We are presently discussing whether or not the secretary should be hooked up to the internet. I would like any Association members, and interested other people who have some comments to please e-mail me directly, Thankyou. Jack Jack Hamilton Aylesford, N.S. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Apr 1997 20:47:28 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Albert W Needham Subject: Re: Feeding bees > Hello Rich: > Ken Lawrence here in Trimble Mo. I just leave it flat on the >frames bars and stick a finger into the split and raise up and fill it >back up with syrup. The bag will swell right back out the way it was. >I use them over. Neat idea !! Glad you mentionned it! Al Al Needham--Scituate,MA,USA--awneedham@juno.com Author Of "The HoneyBee"--An Educational Program Visit "Learn About Honey Bees And Beekeeping" At: - http://www.xensei.com/users/alwine ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Apr 1997 20:21:43 -0700 Reply-To: bruceham@pacbell.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Bruce Hamilton Subject: Re: Feeding bees MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello Joel, I was wondering if you could help me out. A friend of mine who was a beekeeper has decided to give me the last of his hives and some equipment. Along with his stuff was approx. 8 suppers, full of honey. They had been stored in his bee shed for about 1 1/2 years. When I inspected them, they had had several spiders and some cobwebs were in the frames. What I wondered is if I could clean the combs with plain water and then crush the combs to extract the aged honey. I could then strain the honey and dilute it with water. I could then feed to my hives for sugar. I could also add some Terimyicin. What do you think? Any majot drawbacks? Thanks Bruce Hamilton ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Apr 1997 21:50:45 -0700 Reply-To: allend@internode.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Allen Dick Organization: The Beekeepers Subject: Time to Unwrap MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT I made an interesting observation today that tends to confirm - to me - my belief in unwrapping hives earlier, rather than later. After consulting this list and receiving some good pointers on making pollen supplement patties, I went around to some of our hives about March 20th and gave them each one pollen supplement patty, and one medicated grease patty. After consulting with several experts, I decided not to use (essential) oils because of potential unknown toxic effects. Some yards I had unwrapped at the time, but most I had left wrapped, since we are experiencing minus 18C temps or colder some nights, and I am sensitive to the popular belief that it is good to leave them wrapped until May (even though it goes against the evidence I have accumulated ...Excuses, I know for not following my own advice). Besides... we simply were unable to get into many yards to do more than add patties due to the unusual amount of hard snow drifts still around the hives and also a shortage of help. Today I went out to a few yards, feeding sugar syrup and noticed that in *only one yard* had they really touched the feed patties. That yard was the *only* one of the yards that I visited today that was unwrapped - the rest of today's sample were still wrapped. Some of the hives in this one unwrapped yard had actually *finished* a one pound patty. Every hive in the yard - even weak ones - had eaten *at least* half a patty. Other yards had almost totally ignored the soy/yeast/pollen mixture so far. The grease patties were largely untouched, since I had left them in a folded over piece of wax paper, and many hives were only starting to chew their way in. Of course one yard is a small sample, and we'll have to see about the other unwrapped yards, but I find this very interesting. I have long advocated early unwrapping to encourage the bees to cluster rather than to fly around bothering the neighbours and wasting energy, but this is the first time I have seeen this particular effect because we have not used patties for 15 years or so. Does anyone else have any thoughts on this? What does it mean? Allen ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Apr 1997 23:35:33 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Gerry Visel Subject: Re: Association on line Jack, As secretary of a 50 member bee club in Milton Wisconsin, I find it very useful! I distribute minutes, keep up on mite treatments, etc. Go for it! Gerry and the other Visels at Visel7@juno.com, GVisel@aol.com, or GCVisel@snds.com Winnebago, Illinois, USA --- The best thing about the internet is that you don't have to be either filthy rich or politically correct to express your opinion. Intelligence (and love) speaks for itself. On Wed, 9 Apr 1997 19:54:20 +0000 Digest Jack Hamilton writes: >I am a member of the Executive of the Nova Scotia Beekeepers >Association. We are presently discussing whether or not the secretary >should be hooked up to the internet. I would like any Association >members, and interested other people who have some comments to >please e-mail me directly, Thankyou. > >Jack >Jack Hamilton >Aylesford, N.S. > ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 9 Mar 1997 23:38:18 PST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "T. Michael Jones" Subject: Re: ABEJAS AFRICANAS: EL INICIO DE LOS PROBLEMAS On Wed, 9 Apr 1997 16:48:38 -0400 David Verville writes: >Palm, Kevin R. (LLP) wrote: >> >> Does anyone know the whereabouts of an English translation of this >> information?? >I've got my best guy on this and will send it ASAP. > >Dave Verville > Greetings, I am new to the Bee-L and the reason I am here is I am contemplating a return to hobby beekeeping after being away from it for 15 years. Had a run in with thyroid cancer and a car accident that has slowed my hectic life down and I am turning back to those things that give me pleasure. My wife is a student at Old Dominion University here in Norfolk, Va and has promised me a translation of the post in question. When she gets it to me I will post it here for all to read. May the Blessing Be....Enjoy all of life T. Michael Cable-Jones ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 00:10:39 -0700 Reply-To: mwr@hotcity.com Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Michael Reddell Subject: starting an association MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Having lead a 4-H bee project for a year and a half, I have introduced about a dozen kids and half as many parents to beekeeping. The nearest association meets farther away than most are willing to travel on a Monday evening, but nearly all have expressed an interest in being part of a local association. Does anyone on this list have experience, advice, or resource info on starting up a beekeeper's guild? Michael Reddell mwr@hotcity.com http://www.hotcity.com/~mwr ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Apr 1997 23:41:41 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Paul Cronshaw, D.C." Subject: Charging for Swarms Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Bee-list, I am on a number of swarm lists. Today I got 2 calls. I keep getting many people ask me if I charge for picking up swarms. It has been my opinion that I am doing a community service by removing swarms and therefore do not charge anything. (I make my living as a chiropractor and beekeeping is a hobby). My question is: Should beekeepers charge to remove swarms? I usually invite the person(s) who called for my services to watch ( at a safe distance) and ask questions for purpose of education. And I also leave them with a jar of honey as a token of appreciation for helping save these insects from death by extermination = soapy water. In the swarm case today, I was near a shopping mall and it wasn't too long before a small crowd formed asking lots of questions... Typical ones are: "Are these the Killer bees?" "Do you get stung?" It was a lot of fun today and I made sure the honeybee got a lot of good PR. I only hope this continues when the AHB starts to spread thoughout Calif. Paul Cronshaw, D.C. Cyberchiro and Hobby Beekeeper Santa Barbara, CA USA ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 08:59:42 +0100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Dave Black Subject: Re: Save Our Drones In-Reply-To: <00570121000685@systronix.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 In message >Richard Blohm replies to; >I can't start breeding until about the > middle of June because there are no drones till then. I wonder if anyone > has any experience of keeping a colony headed by an drone laying queen > alive over the winter? > >Yes you can winter over a virgin queen to produce Drones in early spring. Our problem would be slightly different. It wouldn't matter if there were drones there or not, if the weather's no good they wouldn't fly and mate, and this won't happen 'till mid Mayish. It always seems to be a race to get the cells into nuc's and the virgins mated by June. I can't think of a way of overwintering the weather ! -- Dave Black , Guildford, GU1 4RN. UK. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 09:26:27 -0700 Reply-To: mister-t@clinic.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Bill Truesdell Subject: Re: Association on line MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I am the secretary for the Maine State Beekeepers and edit our newsletter. If your secretary wants to go on line, fine, but I think it should be on their nickle. There is a lot on the internet, but a great deal of it is opinion and therefor potentilally dangerous. Forums like this one are great, because it is a medium for the exchange of ideas. But I have only been on it for a month and have seen practices promoted that are at variance with what is presented as fact in the "Hive and the Honey Bee". And they are persuasive! I am ready to try one on a hive this spring. You would be better served, if you want to spend money for the secretary to have information, to subscribe to Bee Culture and the ABJ. The internet is fun, but for $180- $350 per year, you can do more for your membership elsewhere. Plus, I only spend 10% max of my time on "bee business" on the net. And of that, I have only two items that I would pass on to our members and both are already in the literature, only with a different viewpoint. Final point. You obviously have members who are on line already. Why not, at your next election of officers, vote one of them in as secretary. Or create a position of "Internet Coordinator" or what ever you want to call them and let them contribute articles or a column to the secretary's letter or newsletter. Problem solved and you saved the organization a bunch of bucks. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 04:13:38 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Michael Lance High Sr." Subject: Re: Charging for Swarms In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII My 2 cents worth? Never charge UNLESS, its a really difficult one. Then charge a token fee just for all the trouble. Oh, also charge if its a lawyer calling :) Mike "I take my chances,I don't mind working without a net, I take my chances,I take my chances every chance I get" Mary Chapin Carpenter ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 11:37:35 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "(Thomas) (Cornick)" Subject: Re: Charging for Swarms In a message dated 97-04-10 10:48:39 EDT, you write: << My 2 cents worth? Never charge UNLESS, its a really difficult one. Then charge a token fee just for all the trouble. Oh, also charge if its a lawyer calling :) Mike >> The guy that charged did so because the idiots called him AFTER they used pesticide on the swarm. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 12:26:08 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Aaron Morris Subject: When to unwrap? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Allen Dick posted: > I made an interesting observation today that tends to confirm to me, > my belief in unwrapping hives earlier, rather than later. > ... > That yard was the *only* one of the yards that I visited today that > was unwrapped - the rest of today's sample were still wrapped. Some > of the hives in this one unwrapped yard had actually *finished* a one > pound patty. Every hive in the yard - even weak ones - had eaten *at > least* half a patty. Other yards had almost totally ignored the > soy/yeast/pollen mixture so far. > ... > I have long advocated early unwrapping to encourage the bees to cluster > rather than to fly around bothering the neighbours and wasting energy, > but this is the first time I have seeen this particular effect because > we have not used patties for 15 years or so. > > Does anyone else have any thoughts on this? What does it mean? > > Allen Last August at a workshop where perparation for the upcomming winter was being discussed, a gentleman who made dirt look young got up and admonished us young uns for coddling our bees. "You don't need no stinkin' wraps! You don't have to nurse your bees through the winter! In fact, you should get out to your hives in February, open 'em up and knock on the hives just to shake 'em up a bit!" He ranted for quite a while, but I was impressed by the wisdom of his years and listened to his advice figuring that if his advice was folly he would have ranted himself out of business a long time ago. His point was that this late winter shake up was what the bees needed to get them going in preparation for spring, which in spite of record low temperatures last night will surely arrive here and will surely arrive, even in Alberta. In my "just startin' out years" I had a hive that was the mother of all nasty hives. Must've been related to them TexMex bees Andy likes so much. Anyway, as a rookie I wanted nothin' to do with this hive in spite of it's superior production and I was hopin' it would die during the winter. In fact I even helped out those wishes by leaving the outter cover off the hive for most of February and March in a Zone 4 region. Well, the hive made it through with no problems! Go figure. My current winterizing mode consists of entrance reducers and an empty super packed with straw on top of 2 deeps. I try to get pollen/pollen substitute patties into the hives early in March and have been experimenting with leaving the straw packed super on some, removing it from others. I can't say that I can draw significant conclusions between the two but I will say that I have not noticed any detrimental effect of removing the straw packed super earlier than I have in previous years and some of the strawless hives are doing quite well, consuming two patties! I have stopped with supplements as the maples have finally started producing on the occasional warm days. I think back to the ranting old timer who said don't coddle your bees, shake 'em up. I wonder if the shock treatment might be akin to the theories of why apitherapy works - shock the system into working how it's s'posed to in the first place. I suspect there's something to that recommendation. I don't know what I would do with a poor hive and fortunately I don't have any candidates this spring! Perhaps it's the shock, I suspect some would claim it's the improved ventillation, and frankly, I don't know. But I won't argue with results. What does this all mean? Beats me. No matter how long I do this, no matter how much I read and network and conference, I realize that the more I listen and pay CLOSE attention to my bees the more they teach me about THEIR world! As always, results may vary based on location and yearly fluctuations in seasonal norms. Aaron Morris - I think, therefore I bee! ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 12:09:33 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Mike Swintosky ([330] 471-3128)" Subject: Experimental Mite Treatments Does anyone know the status of the approval process for making formic acid a legal treatment in the US? What is the holdup? Is there a name and address of someone you could write to to voice your support and/or complain about the slow movement of the approval process? Also, is it possible to purchase small quantities of formic acid for experimental use (treatment before or after the honey flow)? And what about NEEM oil? A friend of mine asked if anyone has tried it. Are there any known problems with its use in the hive from an experimental standpoint? Yes, it's not an approved substance in the US, but are there any known detrimental effects? Providing that there is a possibility of safety, is there a source for purchasing small quantities? Mike Swintosky Carroll County Beekeepers ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Apr 1997 06:46:35 +1100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Nick Wallingford Subject: Re: Switching Brood Chambers In-Reply-To: <13232137503464@systronix.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT > IME some queens move down, some don't. Brood chamber reversal is not > something to do just automatically. It can cause problems for the bees, > especially if cold weather moves in after the manipulation. With the brood > nest split the bees can have a difficult time maintaining temperature > within the nest, and brood can be lost to the cold. Reversing a colony overwintered as two brood chambers *if done at the right time* can provide empty cells into the middle of the brood area that can act to stimulate brood production. Given the right weather conditions, colony conditions and a bit of luck, it can be done to entire yards as a reasonable management tool. Effectively, what you are doing if done at the right time is a *box* level manipulation that you would otherwise be doing at a *frame* level, if you see what I mean. All management is manipulation. If you can do it well, within the range of behaviour the bees can cope with, you *might* be able to improve on the existing 'natural' conditions. And to me, that is what beekeeping is all about! (\ Nick Wallingford {|||8- home nickw@wave.co.nz (/ work nw1@boppoly.ac.nz NZ Beekeeping http://www.wave.co.nz/pages/nickw/nzbkpg.htm ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 14:31:50 -0500 Reply-To: beeworks@muskoka.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: David Eyre Organization: The Beeworks Subject: Re: Save Our Drones In-Reply-To: <970409162557_1086137987@emout13.mail.aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT On 9 Apr 97 at 16:27, Richard Blohm wrote: Re: Save Our Drones > Yes you can winter over a virgin queen to produce Drones in early spring. > The book that best describes it is; Questionable. With a virgin queen there would be no production of brood of any sort, and therefore no replacement of bees from (in our case) Oct to May. I know bees will live for a considerable time whilst not under pressure, but I doubt if they will live that long. So therefore the hive would be in decline, and we know what happens then!! ********************************************************* The Bee Works, 9 Progress Drive Unit 2, Orillia, Ontario, Canada. L3V 6H1 David Eyre, Owner. Phone/Fax 705 326 7171 Dealers for E.H.Thorne & B.J.Sherriff UK http://www.muskoka.net/~beeworks ********************************************************* ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 14:31:49 -0500 Reply-To: beeworks@muskoka.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: David Eyre Organization: The Beeworks Subject: Re: Bees Wanted. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT I have just had a request from a client of ours in Croton on Hudson, New York for package bees. Can anyone help in that area? If so please contact Philip Thank you. ********************************************************* The Bee Works, 9 Progress Drive Unit 2, Orillia, Ontario, Canada. L3V 6H1 David Eyre, Owner. Phone/Fax 705 326 7171 Dealers for E.H.Thorne & B.J.Sherriff UK http://www.muskoka.net/~beeworks ********************************************************* ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 14:31:51 -0500 Reply-To: beeworks@muskoka.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: David Eyre Organization: The Beeworks Subject: Re: Save Our Drones In-Reply-To: <7nqMWDAu3JTzEwYK@tfbplc.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT On 10 Apr 97 at 8:59, Dave Black wrote: Re: Save Our Drones > were drones there or not, if the weather's no good they wouldn't fly and > mate, and this won't happen 'till mid Mayish. It always seems to be a > race to get the cells into nuc's and the virgins mated by June. I can't > think of a way of overwintering the weather ! Why by June? We mate, and succesfully, right through into early Sept. In fact we do that deliberately to provide late queens for fall requeening. ********************************************************* The Bee Works, 9 Progress Drive Unit 2, Orillia, Ontario, Canada. L3V 6H1 David Eyre, Owner. Phone/Fax 705 326 7171 Dealers for E.H.Thorne & B.J.Sherriff UK http://www.muskoka.net/~beeworks ********************************************************* ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 12:46:01 GMT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Steve Turner Organization: Beenet the computer network for beekeepers Subject: test The gate to bee-L is under test Steven Turner G6LPF Beekeeper/gardener Sysop of Amigabee ... Platinum Xpress & Wildcat!..... Nice!!!! ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 16:12:58 GMT Reply-To: Tim_Sterrett@westtown.edu Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Tim Sterrett Organization: Westtown School Subject: Re: Charging for Swarms The person who collects the swarm without charging a fee is the boss in the removal process. If a fee is charged, the person paying the bill may be in charge. Tim Tim Sterrett Westtown, (Southeastern) Pennsylvania, USA tim_sterrett@westtown.edu ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 16:46:19 -0500 Reply-To: aplfarm@win.bright.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "E Janovsky," Organization: Apple Farm Subject: need bees! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To All I'm not a beekeeper but do have a small orchard in NW Wi. Reading all the interesting posts maybe soneone out there could give me some answers. There are few if any bees in this area, just dissapeared the last two years or so. Questions; 1. Would it help to draw in wild bees if I put hummingbird feeders in the orchard?? 2. The orchard bee house, would it be effective this area?? 3. Is there a way to keep from the holes, much like sparrows take over bird houses? Would appreciate any answers you all might provide, thankyou. Ed Janovsky Siren, Wi. aplfarm@win.bright.net ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 19:21:12 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: bartlett Subject: Re: Charging for Swarms Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Well, It seems that everybody else charges for everything that they do and it is because they can't do it themselves so they hire somebody. How many people can capture a swarm of bees? How many people would want to and what would they do with them after they got them? We travel some distance after we have loaded our equipment. We donate our time and our energy. We go when the people call. And we get $25 worth of bees. That doesn't pay for a house call in anybodies business. How long have I been keeping bees? 24 years! How many swarm calls have I been on? A few!!!!!!! How did I enjoy being the star for a little while. Well, yeah. Did I enjoy myself? Yeah!! Were the people nice and appreciative?? Yeah. Did I ever Charge???? NNNNNNOOOOOO And I don't know any rich beekeepers either. billy bee ---------- > From: (Thomas) (Cornick) > To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU > Subject: Re: Charging for Swarms > Date: 10 avr. 1997 11:37 > > In a message dated 97-04-10 10:48:39 EDT, you write: > > << > My 2 cents worth? Never charge UNLESS, its a really difficult one. Then > charge a token fee just for all the trouble. Oh, also charge if its a > lawyer calling :) > Mike > >> > The guy that charged did so because the idiots called him AFTER they used > pesticide on the swarm. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 19:52:24 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "(Thomas) (Cornick)" Subject: Pollination I am wondering if an orchard floor of clovers would attract enough bees to be a pollination aid if the clover was mown when the fruit trees come into bloom. Or would the flower fidelity of the honeybee just send them elsewhere looking for clover? ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Apr 1997 10:09:08 +1100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Chris Allen Subject: Re: Pollination Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 07:52 PM 10/04/97 -0400, you wrote: > would the flower fidelity of the honeybee just send them elsewhere >looking for clover? > You may be right BUT .... I saw a Chinese (may have been Korean or Japanese) film once about this sort of topic. The bees were not interested in the flower that the grower wanted to pollinate. The beekeeper solved the problem soaking several petals in a warm solution of strong sugar syrup. When the syrup was cool, it was fed to bees in the hive. The bees got a taste of the crop and pollinated it. I have not tried this myself and have never heard of any one who has. It may work better with some flowers than other. Suck it and see. Regards Chris Allen ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 21:38:27 +0100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Greg Hankins Subject: Re: Charging for Swarms In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >Bee-list, > >I am on a number of swarm lists. Today I got 2 calls. My home turf is probably a bit more rural than Santa Barbara (about 8,000 households in the county), and maybe rural folk just aren't bothered by bee swarms ... But, when I called the local sheriff's dept. and town polices depts. to offer my services in removing swarms, I got a lot of very long pauses on the other end of the line -- and no indication that a swarm list existed. Is this a rural vs. suburban thing, or am I calling the wrong folk? Greg ____________________________________________________ Greg Hankins Mt. Gilead, NC ghankins@ac.net ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 10:21:44 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Guy Miller Subject: Re: Charging for Swarms Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 09:38 PM 4/10/97 +0100, you wrote: >Is this a rural vs. suburban thing, or am I calling the wrong folk? > >Greg > >____________________________________________________ >Greg Hankins Mt. Gilead, NC >ghankins@ac.net I think it may be an urban thing. I'm in Charlottesville, Virginia, and our bee club sends an annual letter to the 911 service and the county extension agent's office for the surrounding county, listing ten or so folks who are willing to make an attempt, if they have time, etc., and every year we get a number of calls. Many calls are from very alarmed city dwellers. I suspect that the folks who call from the rural parts of the county do it because they believe they are doing us, and the bees, a favor - which they are. Year before last I got 6 calls in the city, and brought home 4. The others were to high for me, and I completed the call by telling them not to worry, thar the bees wouldn't hurt them and they would go away soon. Mixed in with honey bee calls are a few for yellow jackets etc. There is a guy in town who holds himself out as one who will get rid of pests - skunks, bees, snakes etc. If I find a yellow jackets nest, I usually tell the owner what they are and suggest they call the pest guy. I understand he charges about $25 to do it, and that's probably reasonable. He has called me once when it was honeybees that someone wanted him to get rid of. None of the beekeepers charge for gathering swarms or for the trip, even if they turn out to be something other than honeybees. Guy F. Miller My fashion theory: If you walk slow enough, Charlottesville. VA you can lead the next parade. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Apr 1997 00:55:54 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: David Green Subject: Re: Pollination In a message dated 97-04-10 20:40:38 EDT, BeeCrofter@AOL.COM ((Thomas) (Cornick)) writes: << I am wondering if an orchard floor of clovers would attract enough bees to be a pollination aid if the clover was mown when the fruit trees come into bloom. Or would the flower fidelity of the honeybee just send them elsewhere looking for clover? >> This would not work; moreover it is a dangerous idea. The fruit trees bloom earlier than the clover, so there would not be any advantage here. But the clover WOULD be blooming when the broad spectrum insecticides were applied a little later........leading to a lot of bee mortality. Of course this is a label violation for most insecticides, but it is done more often than you'd think, because clover is a constituant of the orchard floor in many orchards. Orchardists are advised to get rid of the clover, or at least mow it close before the insecticide application, but this is often forgotten or ignored. It causes especially bad kills if highly residual materials such as Penncap M (trademark) or Sevin WP (trademark) are used. Bees carry home the poison with pollen and brood and young bees may die for weeks. The contaminated pollen can even be covered with fresh pollen, then uncovered during winter, causing winter loss. I highly recommend that this thought be quickly abandoned. There are other tricks to get better pollination from the bees, though, as Dr. Roger Morse says, "There is no substitute for strong beehives." There is a short course on fruit pollination on the pollination web page. Pollinator@aol.com Dave Green, PO Box 1200, Hemingway, SC 29554 (Dave & Jan's Pollination Service, Pot o'Gold Honey Co.) Practical Pollination Home Page Dave & Janice Green http://users.aol.com/pollinator/polpage1.html ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Apr 1997 01:58:04 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: CHARLES & PAMELA READE <105312.3506@compuserve.com> Subject: JOIN BESTOFBEE Please send Best of Bee L to Chas Reade Email: 105312,3506@compuserve.com Thanks ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Apr 1997 10:00:13 +0000 Reply-To: dave@pix.za Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Dave Du Toit Organization: PiX PoP Tzaneen Subject: Re: Charging for Swarms In-Reply-To: <9704102319.AA17799@eagle1.eaglenet.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Hi billy bee I am a Beekeeper in South Africa Well, It seems that everybody else charges for everything that they do. My 2 cents worth? Never charge UNLESS, its a really difficult one. Then > charge a token fee just for all the trouble. We charge for every swarm we remove minimum price if I just have to walk in and take away a swarm that has moved into a carton or something R95.00 (+- $21.00) if its in a tree or house and pretty easy R185.00 ( $40.00) the higher I climb and the harder the more I charge. I have even come up with a brilliant idea 4 years ago and that is I charge to place out catch hives at hotels and houses that have a constant problem with bees, this works brilliantly as when the hives are full client phones and we collect within 14 days, here I charged yearly depending on how many boxes I think are necessary starts from roughly R250.00 ($55.00) per year to R1500 ($300). Everyone has to live Dave Dave Du Toit Amrit Apiaries dave@pix.za ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Apr 1997 08:29:42 -0400 Reply-To: AANA.VAINIO@helsinki.fi Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Aana Vainio HY/MMSEL +358 0 708 5662 Organization: University of Helsinki Subject: Re: When to unwrap? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Hi there overseas! I'd like to have some explanation about wrapping and unwrapping: Do you really wrap your hives totally for overwintering so that the bees don't get out at all untill there are some flowers around or what? I couldn't figure this out from the discussion. I mean that we here in Finland just prevent snow or mice and other small animals from going in to a hive by closing the "door" or how do you call it, but as soon as there is enough sun for the bees to fly we let them go for their spring cleaning flight, and at that time there is normally still some snow out of the hives, so you really can see the amount of the garbage they carry out - the snow is brown around the hives, not white anymore. And I guess that's important for the later robustness of the community - all the dead or not healthy specimens are also carried out from the hive during the cleaning flights and the next night they will be freezed to death as well as the possible mites or whatever they are carrying with them. Well, that's the system in our climate - no flowering yet, no snow on the ground either but snowing a little bit the day before yesterday, still waiting for the lovely warm spring days with a lot of birds coming from south...soon the summer is here. smiles from Helsinki Aana Aana Vainio Department of Applied Zoology P.O.Box 27 (Viikki C) FIN-00014 University of Helsinki FINLAND Tel: + 358 9 708 5662 Fax: + 358 9 708 5463 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Apr 1997 07:49:15 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Tom Foley Subject: Re: JOIN BESTOFBEE Please send Best of Bee to: Tgf28@aol.com Tom Foley ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Apr 1997 08:12:00 -0500 Reply-To: tvf@umich.edu Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Theodore V. Fischer" Subject: Re: Pollination MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit David Green wrote: > Thomas Cornick writes: > >I am wondering if an orchard floor of clovers would attract enough bees to > be a pollination aid if the clover was mown when the fruit trees come into > bloom...< > > > This would not work; moreover it is a dangerous idea. > Orchardists are advised to get rid of the clover, or at least mow it close > before the insecticide application, but this is often forgotten or ignored. > It causes especially bad kills if highly residual materials such as Penncap > M (trademark) or Sevin WP (trademark) are used. Bees carry home the poison > with pollen and brood and young bees may die for weeks. The contaminated > pollen can even be covered with fresh pollen, then uncovered during winter, > causing winter loss. > > I highly recommend that this thought be quickly abandoned. I am totally in agreement with David's thinking here. He certainly has the experience to write authoritatively on this subject. I also have bees in an orchard, on a more or less permanent arrangement. I have an agreement with the orchardist to keep any blooming weeds out of the orchard, and this includes clover. He maintains a grass/hay cover under the trees for the very reason David describes, and I have never had a pesticide problem in this yard for over 15 years. I probably am fortunate to work with a person who really appreciates bees and understands how they forage. One thing is sure - you don't want to attract bees into the orchard area after fruit bloom. They're much better off elsewhere. Ted Fischer Dexter, Michigan USA ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Apr 1997 09:21:17 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Brett D Bannon Subject: APIS-L vs BEE-L??? BTW, what is the difference, policy, proper procedure, etc. for participating in APIS-L as contrasted to the user friendly BEE_L.. Brett D. Bannon bbannon@juno.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Apr 1997 09:21:17 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Brett D Bannon Subject: ag college pollen trap >From posts on APIS-L BY Ontario Agricultural College Pollen Trap, Seems to be the BEST trap, anyone know plans or sources for such trap. Thanks in advance. . Brett D. Bannon bbannon@juno.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Apr 1997 09:21:17 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Brett D Bannon Subject: Honey containers Does anyone have a good source for nice glass containers that can be used for honey gift packs. Would prefer containers that are different than a the bear and beehive types. Thanks in advance. Brett D. Bannon bbannon@juno.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Apr 1997 09:22:02 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Julia and/or Robert Biales Subject: Re: Pollination Comments: To: tvf@umich.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Theodore V. Fischer wrote: > > David Green wrote: > > > Thomas Cornick writes: > > >I am wondering if an orchard floor of clovers would attract enough bees to > > be a pollination aid if the clover was mown when the fruit trees come into > > bloom...< I'm a certified-organic gardener, will dormant oils and the like hurt the bees, too? Right now I have strawberries under my trees and they'll be blooming at the right (wrong) time. I'll be putting in a long alley of lindens just for the bees, will that be enough to keep them out of the orchard? What do other people plant for bee forage? I want my bees primarily for polination, some honey and wax as bonuses for me. I'm making skepts for them, Hungarian-style rather than ?Langstrom hives, on chains because bear are a big problem around here. Any other high-mountain beekeepers out there? JulieB ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Apr 1997 07:33:31 -0600 Reply-To: allend@internode.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Allen Dick Organization: The Beekeepers Subject: Re: When to unwrap? In-Reply-To: <5B76464220@millipede.helsinki.fi> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT > Hi there overseas! Paivaa Kanadasta > I'd like to have some explanation about wrapping and unwrapping: > Do you really wrap your hives totally for overwintering so that the > bees don't get out at all untill there are some flowers around or > what? I couldn't figure this out from the discussion. We have black plastic blankets that are well insulated (R5 to R10) that cover the hives - with only a 5 cm2 breather hole at the top front and a reduced entrance at the bottom. The bees can fly, but temperature changes are moderated by the insulation. Our temperatures reach minus 45 Celcius for a week or more at a time and the winds can go up to 80 KPH - or more - during that time. Some winters are mild and no wrapping is necessary, but during the bad winters all bees can be lost if they are not wrapped. We do not know ahead of time what kind of winter it will be. Allen ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Apr 1997 07:34:54 -0600 Reply-To: allend@internode.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Allen Dick Organization: The Beekeepers Subject: Re: Charging for Swarms MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT > > My 2 cents worth? Never charge UNLESS, its a really difficult one. > > Then charge a token fee just for all the trouble. > We charge for every swarm we remove ... Speaking of charging, I was talking to a small beekeeper from down in Southern California. He had called up to buy some of my Ross Rounds supers that I have for sale. He was saying that he is in a rich area and that he is charging up to $1,000 for removal of bees from some of the fancy houses -- and getting paid promptly and gladly, too. FWIW Allen ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Apr 1997 07:13:29 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Robert A. Roach" Subject: Re: Charging for Swarms MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Paul, I'm not sure that you should but in California, recent changes in the = law have made it possible to charge a fee by exempting people removing = swarms from the pest control operator license requirements. This change = also applied to those trapping furry animals. You still must be = licensed to control rats, mice, pigeons and other vertebrates pests = normally controlled by exterminators. This means anyone can perform this these certain "pest control" = activities and receive a fee. I have never accepted a fee. I do wish somebody would set up a swarm = removal service in this area besides structural pest control operators. = Many people would gladly pay a fee for their service. Of course the = number of swarms around here have decreased to practically nil and the = AHB is stalled far to the south. Bob Roach ---------- From: Paul Cronshaw, D.C.[SMTP:paulc@silcom.com] Sent: Wednesday, April 09, 1997 11:41 PM Subject: Charging for Swarms Bee-list, I am on a number of swarm lists. Today I got 2 calls. I keep getting = many people ask me if I charge for picking up swarms. It has been my opinion that I am doing a community service by removing swarms and therefore do = not charge anything. (I make my living as a chiropractor and beekeeping = is a hobby). My question is: Should beekeepers charge to remove swarms? ------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Apr 1997 10:18:11 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "HELP" Subject: Up to date honey prices Hello As editor of Bee Biz, which is a magazine for commercial beekeepers, I try to report on honey prices around the globe. To keep as current as possible, I cannot rely on published information, which is by definition out of date by the time it reaches me. Instead I phone and fax a number of dealers in various continents. Can anybody advise me on quick, accurate ways to get this kind of information. I also need prices on wax and other products, but they tend to be more stable than honey prices, from what I can make out. Thank you. Matthew J Allan ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Apr 1997 09:03:39 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Rett Thorpe Subject: Installing a new package MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain I am really begin to feel like a mooch, I am reaping great rewards from this list however I am contributing next to nothing.....(well make that nothing at all). Anyway I really appreciate everyone who has taken the time to respond to my previous questions. The information has been very helpful. For those of you who didn't pick up on it, the previous message was a "buttering up" because I am about to ask another question or two 1) Well it is finally here. Tomorrow I get my bees, but our local weather man says the temp wont get above 47 degrees F. Sunday is supposed to get up to 58 F. should I wait until Sunday to install? How happy are the bees to spend another day crammed up in the little package 2) About how much sugar syrup can I expect the bees to consume before they can make it on their own. I live in Northern Utah, about the same latitude as Pittsburg Pa. but our elevation is about 4500 ft Thanks for your help Rett Thorpe ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 16:37:27 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ted Wout Subject: Charging for Swarms I wouldn't charge for removing swarms, but if I have to drive an exhorbitant distance (more than 30 miles) I would want reimbursement for gas. Of course, if it takes too long to get there the swarm may be gone. If you're removing a swarm for a lawyer, give him an itemized bill with a rate of $125 per hour. Be sure to include the time spent on the phone taking the initial call, the time spent loading your vehicle, time spent driving there and back, time spent hiving the swarm. Be sure to round up to the nearest 1/4 hour for each item. Ted Wout, 3rd year, 10 hives Red Oak, TX ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Apr 1997 09:21:55 -0300 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: zardoz Subject: No existe raza africanizada de abejas; existen apenas abejas femeninas africanizadas Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable COMENTARIOS Usted conoce ahora m=E1s de cerca la situaci=F3n actual de la apicultura nacional, y sabe que su causa principal es la introducci=F3n de la raza adamsonii, por el hecho de que es totalmente incompatible con la apicultura racional. Vale la pena, en este momento, analizar con m=E1s tranquilidad algunos de= los trabajos anteriormente mencionados, para que cada uno, al entrar en ese ramo, sepa desde ya lo que puede esperar del sector en que ingresa, sin so=F1ar demasiado alto, desarroll=E1ndose con realismo. El trabajo de los profesores Dr. A. C. Stort y L. S. Gon=E7alves,= presentado en el Simposio de Apicultura en Clima Caliente, merece las siguientes observaciones: No existe raza africanizada de abejas; existen apenas abejas femeninas africanizadas (obreras y reinas), hijas de reinas europeas puras (sus madres) y de z=E1nganos africanos (sus padres) - porque las abejas - el z=E1ngano (macho) nace siempre puro; nunca mestizo. Por no existir raza africanizada, el =FAnico camino a seguir, la =FAnica= tabla de salvaci=F3n para disminuir la agresividad de las abejas africanas puras,= es la substituci=F3n de sus reinas por reinas europeas puras, que por seren fecundadas, hasta hoy, en un ambiente continental, producen prole africanizada, por lo tanto, un producto inevitable y no una haza=F1a. Por eso es que repito: las abejas africanizadas son hijas de reinas europeas puras. Es por eso que el Dr. W. E. Kerr y su equipo distribuyeron 25 mil reinas italianas y caucasianas (razas d=F3ciles): para que las hijas de estas= reinas (abejas africanizadas) substituyan las africanas puras; es interesante observar que el Dr. Kerr no distribuy=F3 25 mil reinas africanas puras ni mestizas, porque el sabe muy bien que con ellas no se mejora nada ni tampoco se alcanzan objetivos. Entonces, lo que se percibe de lamentable es que =E9l y su equipo distribuyeron apenas 25 mil reinas de abejas mansas en aquellos 10 a=F1os; deber=EDan haber sido distribu=EDdas 25 millones de reinas. Pero no es= f=E1cil, ni tampoco econ=F3mico, producir anualmente 2,5 millones de reinas fecundadas= de razas d=F3ciles en pleno continente contagiado por africanas. Por eso, se hace imprescindible la implantaci=F3n de centros de producci=F3n= de reinas en islas apartadas del continente, pues resultan en producci=F3n econ=F3mica y permiten fecundaci=F3n pura (sin la participaci=F3n de= z=E1nganos africanos). En cuanto al trabajo de la =93Asociaci=F3n de los Apicultores Canoenses=94,= digo que las mencionadas reinas FL son en la realidad reinas europeas puras, hijas de las matrices importadas (que llegaron a Canoas ya fecundadas por z=E1nganos de su propia raza en su pa=EDs de origen) y que, por lo tanto, producen individuos de una =FAnica raza (no mestizos). De este rodo, estas FL son en la realidad reinas puras de razas europeas, que, por haberen sido fecundadas en Canoas por z=E1nganos de la regi=F3n= (tanto africanos como europeos), producieron parte de su prole femenina africanizadas y toda la prole masculina de raza mansa. Por la existencia de estos z=E1nganos de razas d=F3ciles en la regi=F3n,= all=ED se ha formado una =93cuenca gen=E9tica=94 de inestimable valor, porque estos= z=E1nganos han fecundado parcialmente o totalmente las reinas v=EDrgenes, as=ED las de= los apiarios como las africanas que viven en las matas, europeizando todav=EDa= m=E1s sus proles. De esa manera, nacen de las reinas europeas (mansas) mayormente prole puramente europea, y de las africanas, prole europeizada. As=ED, el =E1rea queda, con el tiempo, desafricanizada por la europeizaci=F3n. Este es el =FAnico modo cient=EDfico y de probabilidad pr=E1ctica para= reabilitar nuestra apicultura. En cuanto al trabajo de Dr. Kerr, presentado en el Primer Congreso de Apicultura, digo que la expresi=F3n =93En algunas regiones...=94, etc.= significa, para quien entiende de gen=E9tica ap=EDcola y sabe que el z=E1ngano nace= siempre puro de raza, que =E9stas son todas las regiones de Brasil donde no hay apicultores que cr=EDen abejas hijas de reinas europeas puras; por lo tanto, no existen por all=ED z=E1nganos europeos sino solamente africanos. En estas regiones tenemos apenas abejas africanas puras. Totalmente agresivas, peque=F1as, improductivas e incapaces de aceptar cera alveolada; inservibles para la apicultura racional. Tales abejas nunca mejoran. Por lo tanto, es necesario cuidado para no confundir el verbo =93mejorar=94 con el verbo substituir. As=ED, para= =93mejorar=94 estas abejas es necesario que ellas sean totalmente substitu=EDdas. Primero se saca la reina africana, y la colonia queda encabezada por una reina europea pura, con fecundaci=F3n pura o no (ver parte sobre haploidia= del z=E1ngano, a la p=E1gina 10); con el pasar del tiempo, las obreras africanas= que alimentan a las cr=EDas de la reina europea (dentro de un plazo de 70 a 90 d=EDas, aproximadamente) ser=E1n gradualmente substitu=EDdas por las hijas= de la nueva reina (europea), y por fin desaparecer=E1n. Entonces, las personas dir=E1n que las africanas se han vuelto mansas, lo= que no corresponde; las africanas murieron; ya no existen. Se han mejorado las abejas, y ya no son m=E1s las africanas. Otra parte que merece ser analizada es la siguiente =93(...) en este caso (...) hasta (...) (regiones calientes)=94. Aqu=ED queda bien claro que el introductor de las africanas no pone= confianza en la raza que trajo, ni pura ni mestiza, una vez que recomienda la substituci=F3n de las reinas de colonias improductivas por reinas de razas italianas y caucasianas. Si las reinas africanizadas o de raza africana, selecionadas o no, producieran proles m=E1s productivas, =BFpor qu=E9 recomendar outra raza? Pasa que =E9l sabe que la abeja africana no es buena productora de miel. Aunque el Dr. Kerr no afirme a que raza pertenecen las reinas de las colonias de abejas improductivas, se puede deducir con mucha facilidad a que raza ellas podr=EDan pertenecer; es suficiente pensar un momento en cual= raza es la m=E1s difundida por todo el territ=F3rio nacional, y considerar el= hecho de que se recomienda su substituci=F3n por reinas de raza italiana o= caucasiana. Por lo tanto, si le ponemos atenci=F3n, nos daremos cuenta que =E9l confia y aprueba como buenas productoras de miel a las abejas hijas de reinas europeas y no a las hijas de reinas africanas. Tampoco conf=EDa en las= reinas africanizadas como en las que tienen buenas proles productoras de miel, porque sabe que cada reina africanizada virgen, es fecundada en regiones donde s=F3lo hay z=E1nganos africanos y que produce 50% de su prole de modo mestizo como ella propia y 50% de prole (de obreras) de puras africanas. El Dr. Kerr agrega todav=EDa que estas reinas deben recibir cera alveolada para z=E1nganos. Esto es lo mismo que aconsejar la produci=F3n de z=E1ngano= s, que en el caso nacer=E1n caucasianos o italianos (razas mansas europeizadas). Se sabe que los z=E1nganos no producen miel; =BFa que m=E1s, entonces, podr=EDa= servir esta recomendaci=F3n, sino para saturar la regi=F3n con z=E1nganos europeos desafricanizando por la europeizaci=F3n de los enjambres libres en la naturaleza, a trav=E9s de la fecundaci=F3n total o parcial de sus reinas= v=EDrgenes? Con respecto al trabajo del Sr. Wiese, afirmo:=20 Las abejas africanas tienen de todo para servir como ejemplo de raza impropia para la apicultura racional, una vez que para instalar apenas una colonia necesitamos un =E1rea de 600 x 600m. Pregunto: =BFpuede que una= colonia de abejas africanas proporcione m=E1s lucros, al ocupar estas 36 hect=E1reas (para manifestar su furia al ser manipulada), en cambio de cualquier otra actividad agropecuaria? =BFY, puede que con una raza de =E9sa, los minifundiarios llegar=E1n alg=FAn= d=EDa a practicar la apicultura? As=ED que: vivan las razas europeas, las que est=E1n siendo la tabla de salvaci=F3n de nuestra apicultura. =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=20 francis9@ruralsp.com.br =20 P.O.BOX 12185 =20 SAO PAULO - SP =20 zipcode 02098-970 =20 BRASIL =20 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 08:33:56 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: frankay@MAIL.NETSHOP.NET Subject: Re: Up to date honey prices Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >Hello >As editor of Bee Biz, which is a magazine for commercial beekeepers, I try to >report on honey prices around the globe. To keep as current as possible, I >cannot rely on published information, which is by definition out of date by >the time it reaches me. Instead I phone and fax a number of dealers in >various continents. > >Can anybody advise me on quick, accurate ways to get this kind of >information. I also need prices on wax and other products, but they tend to >be more stable than honey prices, from what I can make out. > >Thank you. > >Matthew J Allan Hi Matthew. Didn't realize you had joined us on the LIST. Welcome. I'm no help as far as the above is concerned (if you find a single, reliable source, may I share the info? I have the same problem, and would dearly like to have a source for Hivelights). I left a message on your answering machine earlier today then found this which is even better. I need to know if the April 18th deadline for the next Bee Biz still stands. I am still trying to get the pollen article out of Ernie Fuhr. He promised me faithfully he would do it, but so far, I haven't seen it. I will send you a Guelph University report from Julie Mc Carthy, who did the first comprehensive work on pollination in ginseng, which traditionally has a very low setting rate. She needs to get the word out, of course,and since this is a crop that keeps on growing in deamnd, Bee Bix may be an excellent place for it. Dave MacMillan is going to send me a copy of the Ontario food processing standards - I forget exactly what it is called - which the Canadian Honey Council is looking at as a possible baseline for an industry supported standard. More on that when it arrives. You may be interested to know that Agriculture Canada officials reporting to the Canadian Honey council annual meeting in Winnipeg last January told us that 35% (of 67) shipments of Chinese honey tested here between April and December 1996 were found to be adulterated. I still have not received the photos back from the Babe's Honey story or the corn syrup article. Are they still around? I hope they haven't been lost, as they are the only ones Babe had of that particular element of the operation. I don't like to keep pestering Jerry, but do you know what the usual arrangements are for being paid the honorarium for Bee Biz? I have only received one payment (for two issues) to date. Should I be invoicing him? And what is the rate as of now? I believe I received $200 Canadian or a little better each for the first two issues. Hope you're well into a sunny, warm spring. Where I am, the snow is about half gone. In Winnipeg, they have just had the blizzard of the century. And in Victoria, spring arrived two months ago. What a country! Anyway, it is beautiful weather this week, and if it continues, the snow and mud will all be gone soon. The grass is showing and the trees are budded, so everything is just waiting. The bees though (and beekeepers), are getting VERY impatient! Best regards, Fran ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Apr 1997 12:33:41 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Albert W Needham Subject: Re: Honey containers On Fri, 11 Apr 1997 09:21:17 EDT Brett D Bannon writes: >Does anyone have a good source for nice glass containers that can be >used for honey gift packs. Would prefer containers that are different >than a the bear and beehive types. Thanks in advance. The latest issue of Bee Culture Magazine in its "New For You" column has a blurb about "New Jars" that Starbucks Coffee & the Ritz Carlton Hotels use called Berlin Packaging's London Rectangle. They state that these rectangular jars are of "unusual shape and the unique lable area creates a gourmet look and attract attention" "The 6.5 fl.-oz. (190ml) and wide mouth helps the product look as good as it tastes. Two finish options and many closure choices". The photo looks good. In-stock for immediate shipping from: Berlin Pkg., 111 N. Cardinal, Chicago, IL 60606 Telephone 800-423-7546 So.....there you go Brett. If you get any, let us know what you think of them..or maybe if you have a Starbucks or Ritz near you, you can check them out! Al Al Needham--Scituate,MA,USA--awneedham@juno.com Author Of "The HoneyBee"--An Educational Program Visit "Learn About Honey Bees And Beekeeping" At: - http://www.xensei.com/users/alwine ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Apr 1997 16:31:51 +0000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Gene Dixon Subject: Re: Essential Oils Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I put patties with oil on two hives. Both absconded. At 03:15 AM 4/8/97 +0000, you wrote: >Reply-to: Discussion of Bee Biology >From: Brian R Tucker > >I am just wanting to know if any one had any and what type of success with >essential oils later fall and over winter. > >I overwintered 2 hives: 1 with patties with oils, and 1 without. The hive >that had oils is doing wonderfully and has no signs of varroa. But the one >without is very slow out of the gate here and does have some mites in the >drone brood. > >Thanks for comments. > >B. Tucker >Polo MO > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Apr 1997 12:41:25 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ed Levi Subject: Re: Pollination Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >At 07:52 PM 10/04/97 -0400, you wrote: >> would the flower fidelity of the honeybee just send them elsewhere >>looking for clover? Best to cut the clover just as the trees start flowering. >You may be right > >BUT .... > >I saw a Chinese (may have been Korean or Japanese) film once about this sort >of topic. > >The bees were not interested in the flower that the grower wanted to >pollinate. The beekeeper solved the problem soaking several petals in a >warm solution of strong sugar syrup. When the syrup was cool, it was fed to >bees in the hive. The bees got a taste of the crop and pollinated it. > I have also not tried this but learned of this method in a beekeeping course in France. Ed Levi ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Apr 1997 21:20:32 +-200 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?J=F8rn_Johanesson?= Subject: gate test MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Fra: Steve Turner > Til: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU > Emne: test > Dato: 10. april 1997 12:46 > > The gate to bee-L is under test Hello Steven! recived by Apimo Beenet coordinator :-) see You in Beenet /Jorn Johanesson EDBi = Beekeeping software for windows e-mail apimo@post4.tele.dk edbi homepage http://home4.inet.tele.dk/apimo/edbi.htm ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Apr 1997 15:45:12 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Mike Worrell Subject: Re: Honey containers I use a 9 oz. octagon jar that holds 13 oz of honey. It's pricey but does look good. I also tie a strip of raffia around the top. It comes with a gold lid. I order it from Midcom in Lenexa, Ks. It's taller than a standard 8 oz hexagon which you can order from several of the bee equipment suppliers and looks much bigger. I think it shows as a better buy. Does any one know of an East Coast supplier of the 9 oz octagon? Mike ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Apr 1997 16:21:16 -0500 Reply-To: tvf@umich.edu Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Theodore V. Fischer" Subject: Re: Installing a new package MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Rett Thorpe wrote: > > 1) Well it is finally here. Tomorrow I get my bees, but our local > weather man says the temp wont get above 47 degrees F. Sunday is > supposed to get up to 58 F. should I wait until Sunday to install? How > happy are the bees to spend another day crammed up in the little package > > 2) About how much sugar syrup can I expect the bees to consume before > they can make it on their own. I live in Northern Utah, about the same > latitude as Pittsburg Pa. but our elevation is about 4500 ft My opinion on 1) is that you ought to hive the bees as soon as possible. 47F isn't all that bad, and they will be better off in the hive than in the package. 2) If the bees can't get out to forage, you ought to feed them until they can fend for themselves. They will keep on taking syrup until they don't need it any more, at which time you can stop. Ted Fischer Dexter, Michigan USA ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Apr 1997 17:15:25 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: PondSite Subject: Super-up or Super down MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I was reading a thread from some-one the other day about package bees and can't recall the info. I put out two each 3pound packages of bees. I checked them after a few days to insure that the queen had gotten out ok, and she had. I had taken out a frame so that the queens chamber had plenty of room to let her out. I took out some of the burr comb that the bees had already made in place of the frame and put in next to the hive as it had sugar/syrup in it, and I let the bees clean it up. NOW, The bees are chewing the piece of comb that I took out, should I take it from them? Also, after the bees fill the one hive body that they are working with foundation, I want to add another hive bodyfor them. I have double hive bodies on my other hives already. Should I put it on top, or on the bottom. The weather is 70 degrees plus and bees are working. Three years, six hives and having fun. Would greatly appreciate any help that I can get. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Apr 1997 12:47:30 -1000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Walter Patton Subject: Re: Charging for Swarms MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Excuse me is this thread talking about swarm retrevial/gathering or is the discussion about bee remeoval? A swarm ( group of bees resting somewhere while looking for a suitable cavity/place to colonizie and build comb making it a hive of bees ) can usually be gathered quite easily as all beekeepers know. Regarding charges I explain to the caller if in my area that I will come by and get the swarm sometime that day for free. If they want me to stop what I am doing and come remove the swarm I tell them a fee depending on distance from my home. I also explain to the caller that the down side to letting nature take its coarse is that the bees may find a hole into a cavity in the double wall parts of their house and that will then require a much more expense process called bee removal when the bees have a hive in the wrong place and that costs are dependent on the degree of difficulty and if the home owner wants the balance of the bees sprayed at dusk to keep from having bees in the area for up to a week. Walter ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Apr 1997 19:31:26 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: David Green Subject: Re: APIS-L vs BEE-L??? In a message dated 97-04-11 09:23:51 EDT, bbannon@juno.com (Brett D Bannon) writes: << BTW, what is the difference, policy, proper procedure, etc. for participating in APIS-L as contrasted to the user friendly BEE_L.. >> The APIS list is not a general discussion list, though it has been used a bit as such. It is intended to be for responses to the preliminary copy of the APIS newsletter, one of the best in the business. Pollinator@aol.com Dave Green, PO Box 1200, Hemingway, SC 29554 (Dave & Jan's Pollination Service, Pot o'Gold Honey Co.) Practical Pollination Home Page Dave & Janice Green http://users.aol.com/pollinator/polpage1.html ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Apr 1997 19:32:38 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: David Green Subject: Re: Pollination In a message dated 97-04-11 09:29:20 EDT, biales@albany.net (Julia and/or Robert Biales) writes: << I'm a certified-organic gardener, will dormant oils and the like hurt the bees, too?>> It's highly unlikely. Even if they WERE hazardous, you'll be applying them, when bees are not present. << Right now I have strawberries under my trees and they'll be blooming at the right (wrong) time. I'll be putting in a long alley of lindens just for the bees, will that be enough to keep them out of the orchard? What do other people plant for bee forage?>> The bees will certainly help your strawberries, and should not be harmed with organic fruit production. Good luck! Lindens may perhaps keep the bees out of the orchard during their bloom, which is much later than fruit. Of course you want to encourage them into the orchard during it's bloom. Lindens make nice, minty honey, but you need quite a few. If you have a lot of dandelions, you might wish to mow them, when fruit gets blooming to remove competition for pollinators. Most plants for bee forage are wild, since you need extensive acreages. If you have a significant amount of land, plant sweet clover, buckwheat, canola, or most any legume to give the bees a good feed, and likely some surplus to harvest. <> In many states, you must have a special permit to keep bees in hives without movable frames (skeps, box hives, or gums). This is to make it possible for the bee inspector to check for brood disease. I doubt chains will have much effect on bears, especially with skeps, since a large bear can make kindling wood of a standard Langstroth hive. If you have them, you need a good electric fence. Come by the web page below for a short course on fruit pollination. Pollinator@aol.com Dave Green, PO Box 1200, Hemingway, SC 29554 (Dave & Jan's Pollination Service, Pot o'Gold Honey Co.) Practical Pollination Home Page Dave & Janice Green http://users.aol.com/pollinator/polpage1.html ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 12 Apr 1997 01:10:00 GMT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Andy Nachbaur Organization: WILD BEE'S BBS (209) 826-8107 LOS BANOS, CA Subject: Charging for Swarms TW>From: Ted Wout >Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 16:37:27 -0400 >Subject: Charging for Swarms TW>If you're removing a swarm for a lawyer, give him an itemized bill with a >rate of $125 per hour. Be sure to include the time spent on the phone >taking the initial call, the time spent loading your vehicle, time spent >driving there and back, time spent hiving the swarm. Be sure to round up >to the nearest 1/4 hour for each item. Hi Ted, When you jack rabbit from a stop sign here in Los Banos, Ca, even if you are an old widow lady it's $160.00 unless you have three wittiness that say you stopped and one of those better be a priest. The moral to this which is no more then another tax is that when I am called by the city police to pick up a swarm, I insist on $50 per hour, police protection, barricades, crime scene tap, the whole works, and $1,000,000.00 insurance to protect me from anyone who gets a bee up his noise and wants to sue me, paid for by the city. All this has ended the dozens of calls that I used to get from the police department to pick up swarms. I wish I had thought of it 30 years ago, I would be a millionaire today. In all other cases if the swarm call is from a reasonable person and its not 100 miles out of my way I don't charge. ttul Andy- --- ~ QMPro 1.53 ~ "When the bee-hive casts its swarm;" (read about it here) ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 12 Apr 1997 01:08:00 GMT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Andy Nachbaur Organization: WILD BEE'S BBS (209) 826-8107 LOS BANOS, CA Subject: Up to date honey prices?? *Ripped off the sci.agr.beekeeping news group as someone asked a similar question in both groups. ---------------------------------------- JT>From: Jane Teas >Subject: International Honey Prices JT>Hi. I would like to find out where I could get a listing for national >and international honey prices. Who monitors honey? Is it available on >the Internet? Hello Jane, If you want information on prices paid for honey produced or imported into the US the American Bee Journal or Gleanings are very good. If you want the official US USDA government NATIONAL HONEY MARKET NEWS, it's $36.00 for 12 months to US-Canada_Mexico, and for others it's $72.00 for 12 months. The address for this is: United States Department of Agriculture Agricultural Marketing Service - FV Market News Branch 2015 South First Street Room 4 Yakima WA 98903-9901 Bee sure and tell them you read about it here in this beekeeping news group. The American Beekeeping Federation also has had a FAX system connecting buyer with sellers, I don't recall what they charge and you have to be a member. I am told it has worked out real good for those who trade in truck lots, 40-60 drums. Yes, I think this information should be FREE and available via the internet, especially the USDA Government's NATIONAL HONEY MARKET NEWS, but I can't cause that to happen by myself and until enough US honey producers find their way to the internet we can expect to continue to bee ripped off by the USDA as we are one of the only large public agricultural groups that is asked to pay. It is sad as much of the information comes from beekeepers and the plant condition reports from producers is very interesting to all beekeepers big and small. ttul, the OLd Drone (c) Permission is granted to freely copy this document in any form, or to print for any use. (w)Opinions are not necessarily facts. Use at own risk. --- ~ QMPro 1.53 ~ Let the honey flow!!!!! ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Apr 1997 22:36:07 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Brian R Tucker Subject: Double Queening I have a hive that I am going to double queen this year. It is an Italian hive And I was woundering if I have to use anouther Italian queen or can I use anouther breed for the other queen. thanks ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Apr 1997 23:21:43 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Alden P. Marshall" Subject: Re: Attack/warning behaviors? On Mon, 24 Mar 1997 07:10:12 -0500 "Excerpts from BEE-L" writes: >Reply-to: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU >From: Allen Dick > >> Yesterday I was mowing my lawn and a few of bees started buzzing >around >> and bouncing off my head, which is different from the attack >behaviors, >> where I get zapped before I have even seen them. > > >Curiously, bees also will *bite* your wrists before they start >stinging if >they haven't been disturbed much and are otherwise in a good mood. > >Allen Interesting you should mention biting, a lot of beekeepers look at you rather strangely when the subject of biting is mentioned. I seem to notice this more when perspiration is present. The thing that amazes me is that although the bite is painful enough to be noticed I see no tell tale signs of the instance. >Alden Marshall B-Line Apiaries Hudson, NH 03051 Busybee9@Juno.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 12 Apr 1997 06:45:41 -0600 Reply-To: allend@internode.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Allen Dick Organization: The Beekeepers Subject: Re: Charging for Swarms In-Reply-To: <12191119906372@systronix.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT > Excuse me is this thread talking about swarm retrevial/gathering or is the > discussion about bee remeoval? Good point. I doubt that we can clearly distinguish - at least when handling the initial call. What we have found from many years of experience is that it is not always possible to tell over the phone which you are dealing with. When you get to a 'swarm' call, sometimes there *was* a swarm, but they have moved into the building on which they were hanging. Sometimes they were living there all along, but a hot day made them hang out and look very much like a swarm. If the bees are on a tree or bush, or fence post, then that is usually pretty clear if you ask the right questions, but otherwise there is often an element of doubt. That doubt includes the question of species of 'bee'. Many think that we keep bumblebees and that 10 or so bees flying around something is a 'swarm'. So far the thread has not really gotten into what it costs us *out of pocket* to get a swarm. A swarm call seldom takes less than two hours - beginning to end. We are a commercial operation; I have to pay from $7.50 to $12/hr to anyone I would send on a critical errand, and pay fuel and maintenance and oftentimes also sacrifice some important work or have someone work overtime. A call to a location 10 miles away costs me personally $2 X $10 + 2 X 10 miles X $0.30/ mile = $26.00 minimum - out of my pocket. About half the trips can result in nothing much worthwhile being brought back home. What do I get in exchange? * A warm fuzzy feeling * good PR (if all goes right and the preacher doesn't get stung) * some bees (anywhere from 0 to 75,000) in anywhere from excellent to terrible condition at a time of year where they may make a crop - to where I have to feed them to watch them die later - in the winter. * a distraction from the things that make my living Frankly, I sometimes go myself, just for the diversion, and to meet people. Sometimes I can wangle a good bee location out of the trip. Swarms tend to go where there is good forage. I can't ever recall charging for either a swarm or removal call. We chalk it up to our community responsibility, but we do realise that retreiving swarms cost us money on average, and pass the job off to others where possible. Allen ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 12 Apr 1997 08:20:46 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Michael Simics Subject: aussi & N.Z. beesupply Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Good morning International beekeepers. Greetings from Vancouver, BC. 2 beekeepers will be travelling to Australia and New Zealand next month and would like to visit beekeeper supply places. Can anyone supply addresses and maybe even phone numbers. They will be staying in Sydney, Australia and travelling all over New Zealand. Thank-you. Please respond to Darlene at msimics@direct.ca. Darlene ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 12 Apr 1997 15:29:15 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Aaron Wolfenbarger Subject: Foundation I was wondering if any of you are familier with the company Dadant. If so they have a foundation for brood called Duraguilt(or durabuilt) TM and I was wondering what the difference was. And since the Duraguilt has "communication holes" that if those would make a difference as well. Thanks in advance. Aaron Norris, TN 1st Year ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 12 Apr 1997 13:36:06 -0500 Reply-To: BEE-L@cnsibm.albany.edu Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Excerpts from BEE-L Organization: BestOfBee@systronix.net Subject: Repost:: Announcing BestOfBee MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT *** Please save this message for future reference *** As the volume has grown on BEE-L, a some of members have grown tired of receiving large numbers of messages daily, many of which are sent in error or not of general interest. Many worthy subscribers have simply given up and left. Therefore, to lighten the load, several list regulars (who merrily read *everything* anyhow), have agreed to select the best material (in their opinions) and re-post it to a new list, called BestOf Bee (The '-l' is left off due to changing standards on the net regarding punctuation in list names). Since it is pretty well unanimous that BEE-L should not be split or censored, this provides a way for those who wish to read the list, but be selective and not be exposed to huge gratuitous quotes, one word or one (huge) paragraph posts, monster ASCII sigs, flames, diatribes, and trolls to enjoy a filtered and edited version of BEE-L. Currently about 35% of the posts to BEE-L (or less) are being re-transmitted on Best of Bee. Since Best of Bee began, there has been a noticable increase in the number and variety of posts to *BEE-L* - and a reduction in complaints and flaming, since no one can complain that they have to put up with chatter etc. Those who wish peace and quiet are now using Best of Bee. (Currently there are 169 subscribers). If you would like to try this new free service, simply send email to Honeybee@systronix.net saying join bestofbee You will shortly start receiving messages. Additional Info For Current BEE-L Subscribers: ---------------------------------------------- If you get BEE-L currently, these messages from BestOfBee will be *duplicates* of *some* the ones you get from BEE-L presently, but some may be edited to remove excessive quotes from previous messages if they are otherwise suitable. Many messages from BEE-L will not merit repeating on bestofbee, since they are chatter, or redundant. After you are satisfied that the new list is working and get a feel for the degree of filtering, you may wish to set BEE-L NOMAIL and read only the filtered messages -- if you like the way it works. *You will still need your BEE-L subscription* if you wish to post, since the only way to get a post to bestofbee is through posting a message on BEE-L. We expect that soon you will be able to search these selected messages using a web brouser after a number have accumulated. This will give a searchable 'opinion base'. We may add some edited material from old BEE-L logs too. Please Note: No one will be able to post to BestOfBee (regardless of what the welcome message says -- I haven't yet bothered to fix it) except the moderators, so direct all replies to bestofbee articles to BEE-L where they will be read and perhaps selected for re-transmission. We hope this service helps more people to enjoy BEE-L, and that those who wish to post will do so freely now. We are also open to constructive comments and ideas for improvement. Regards Allen ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 12 Apr 1997 17:22:11 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: David Green Subject: Re: Foundation In a message dated 97-04-12 16:04:13 EDT, AaFishes@AOL.COM (Aaron Wolfenbarger) writes: << I was wondering if any of you are familier with the company Dadant. If so they have a foundation for brood called Duraguilt(or durabuilt) TM and I was wondering what the difference was. And since the Duraguilt has "communication holes" that if those would make a difference as well. Thanks in advance. >> Aaron, I use Duragilt almost exclusively, as I do not have time to wire frames of foundation. A wired frame of comb, if it is done right, is the best there is, but the labor cost makes it about double the Duragilt. Duragilt is good, if you are careful to center the foundation exactly in the frames, and make sure there are no places along the groove, where it pops out. This will make it bow, and the bees will make thick comb on one side, and chew the other side down to the plastic base, after which it will never be repaired by the bees. The communication holes are necessary for the bees. On wired frames they almost always make holes in the lower corners of the frames, but they couldn't, if the plastic base were continuouos. So they are made with holes. Be sure to put the holes at the bottom of the frame. One nice thing about Duragilt, is if it is damaged, you can pop the old one out of the frame, clean the groove (Dadant has a special tool for this), and pop in a new one. It is easier if you get grooved top and bottom bars, rather than split bottoms and wedge type tops. Then you just pop in the foundation, straighten the metal reinforcing edge, and it's ready to use. Pollinator@aol.com Dave Green, PO Box 1200, Hemingway, SC 29554 (Dave & Jan's Pollination Service, Pot o'Gold Honey Co.) Pollination for lay people, students, teachers ....Of bees, beekeepers, and food http://users.aol.com/queenbjan/primbees.htm Pollination for the pros - those involved in doing it: Practical Pollination Home Page Dave & Janice Green http://users.aol.com/pollinator/polpage1.html Jan's Sweetness and Light Varietal Honeys and Gift Sets http://users.aol.com/SweetnessL/sweetlit.htm ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 12 Apr 1997 16:30:34 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ted Fischer Subject: Re: Double Queening MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Brian R Tucker wrote: > > I have a hive that I am going to double queen this year. It is an Italian > hive And I was woundering if I have to use anouther Italian queen or can I > use anouther breed for the other queen. thanks Generally, when you double queen, it is for the population buildup period, and when the major honey flow comes on (in the northern US states, at least) you would combine the hive, using the youngest queen for the continuation of the colony. Therefore, although it would make no difference at all in general if you had different queen races, you ought to set up the second queen as the one you want to use for overwintering this fall and starting your next year's colony. Ted Fischer Dexter, Michigan USA ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 12 Apr 1997 19:12:12 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ed Levi Subject: Greek Beekeepers? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hi, I've got a student in one of my beekeeping classes who is moving to Greece (near Thesanlaniki area) this summer. He'd like to know of beekeepers there. Answers can come directly to me. Thanks, Ed ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 12 Apr 1997 20:20:00 -0600 Reply-To: Charles Harper Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Charles Harper Subject: Re: Foundation MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Sat, 12 Apr 1997 15:29:15 -0400, Aaron Wolfenbarger wrote: >I was wondering if any of you are familier with the company Dadant. If so >they have a foundation for brood called Duraguilt(or durabuilt) TM and I was >wondering what the difference was. And since the Duraguilt has "communication >holes" that if those would make a difference as well. Thanks in advance. > >Aaron >Norris, TN >1st Year > They also sell plasticell foundation a bit higher in price but cheaper in the long run it has deeper cell starting. Harper's Honey farm Charles Harper charlie@iamerica.net ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 12 Apr 1997 20:21:57 -0800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Andy Nordvall Subject: APIS-L Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I'd be interested to know how you subscribe to APIS-L. Is it also run by CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU ? Andrew Nordvall Nordvall@loop. com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 13 Apr 1997 08:23:30 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Harold Rogers Subject: How to get off BEE-L I would like to get off your list my mail box is getting full. I have sent several e-mail in the past but the stuff just keeps coming. Wuold you please take my name off your list, please. Thank you. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 13 Apr 1997 08:41:18 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Roy Nettlebeck Subject: Re: Foundation Comments: To: Charles Harper In-Reply-To: <199704130120.UAA19623@mailroom.iamerica.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Sat, 12 Apr 1997, Charles Harper wrote: > On Sat, 12 Apr 1997 15:29:15 -0400, Aaron Wolfenbarger wrote: > > >I was wondering if any of you are familier with the company Dadant. If so > >they have a foundation for brood called Duraguilt(or durabuilt) TM and I was > >wondering what the difference was. And since the Duraguilt has "communication > >holes" that if those would make a difference as well. Thanks in advance. > > > >Aaron > >Norris, TN > >1st Year > > > > > They also sell plasticell foundation a bit higher in price but cheaper in the long run > it has deeper cell starting. > > > Harper's Honey farm > Charles Harper > charlie@iamerica.net > HI, When it comes to plastic foundation . plasticell is very good , but spendy. I have been using Permadent sold by Mann Lake. Now I just started using Rite cell made by Mann Lake. It is more like plasticell but a lot less money.They have the quality , now I hope they keep the price down. I would like to see small beepeepers use the deep cell plastic foundation. It lasts a long time and is easy to clean up , plus no wireing. Best Regards Roy ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 13 Apr 1997 12:19:14 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: PondSite Subject: Re: Foundation MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Do you use the waxed or the unwaxed type. Ive used Duriguilt and don't like it. WALT ---------- > From: Roy Nettlebeck > To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU > Subject: Re: Foundation > Date: Sunday, April 13, 1997 11:41 AM > > On Sat, 12 Apr 1997, Charles Harper wrote: > > > On Sat, 12 Apr 1997 15:29:15 -0400, Aaron Wolfenbarger wrote: > > > > >I was wondering if any of you are familier with the company Dadant. If so > > >they have a foundation for brood called Duraguilt(or durabuilt) TM and I was > > >wondering what the difference was. And since the Duraguilt has "communication > > >holes" that if those would make a difference as well. Thanks in advance. > > > > > >Aaron > > >Norris, TN > > >1st Year > > > > > > > > > They also sell plasticell foundation a bit higher in price but cheaper in the long run > > it has deeper cell starting. > > > > > > Harper's Honey farm > > Charles Harper > > charlie@iamerica.net > > > HI, > > When it comes to plastic foundation . plasticell is very good , but > spendy. > I have been using Permadent sold by Mann Lake. Now I just started using > Rite cell made by Mann Lake. It is more like plasticell but a lot less > money.They have the quality , now I hope they keep the price down. I would > like to see small beepeepers use the deep cell plastic foundation. It > lasts a long time and is easy to clean up , plus no wireing. > > Best Regards > Roy ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 13 Apr 1997 13:01:22 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "MR WILLIAM L HUGHES JR." Subject: Foundation >>I was wondering if any of you are familier with the company Dadant. If so they have a foundation for brood called Duraguilt(or durabuilt) TM and I was wondering what the difference was. And since the Duraguilt has "communication holes" that if those would make a difference as well. Thanks in advance.<< Aaron, I only use Duraguilt in the brood chanmbers because it saves time and labor. In my honey supers I use both Duraguit and Pierco plastic frames and foundation. This works for me. By the way is Norris in West, Middle or East TN. I am in West TN. Bill Hughes Bent Holly Honey Farm Brighton, TN ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 13 Apr 1997 16:05:11 -0400 Reply-To: Albert Knight Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Albert Knight BEE-L NOMAIL ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 13 Apr 1997 17:00:37 -0600 Reply-To: Charles Harper Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Charles Harper Subject: Re: Foundation MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Sun, 13 Apr 1997 12:19:14 -0400, PondSite wrote: >Do you use the waxed or the unwaxed type. Ive used Duriguilt and don't >like it. WALT > >---------- >> From: Roy Nettlebeck >> To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU >> Subject: Re: Foundation >> Date: Sunday, April 13, 1997 11:41 AM >> >> On Sat, 12 Apr 1997, Charles Harper wrote: >> >> > On Sat, 12 Apr 1997 15:29:15 -0400, Aaron Wolfenbarger wrote: >> > >> > >I was wondering if any of you are familier with the company Dadant. >If so >> > >they have a foundation for brood called Duraguilt(or durabuilt) TM and >I was >> > >wondering what the difference was. And since the Duraguilt has >"communication >> > >holes" that if those would make a difference as well. Thanks in >advance. >> > > >> > >Aaron >> > >Norris, TN >> > >1st Year >> > > >> > >> > >> > They also sell plasticell foundation a bit higher in price but >cheaper in the long run >> > it has deeper cell starting. >> > >> > >> > Harper's Honey farm >> > Charles Harper >> > charlie@iamerica.net >> > >> HI, >> >> When it comes to plastic foundation . plasticell is very good , but >> spendy. >> I have been using Permadent sold by Mann Lake. Now I just started using >> Rite cell made by Mann Lake. It is more like plasticell but a lot less >> money.They have the quality , now I hope they keep the price down. I >would >> like to see small beepeepers use the deep cell plastic foundation. It >> lasts a long time and is easy to clean up , plus no wireing. >> >> Best Regards >> Roy > I use the UNWAXED foundation as i find they will draw it out on the tallow flow just as fast as wax foundation. Dont try that on a short honey flow Charles Harper Harper's Honey farm ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 13 Apr 1997 17:32:41 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Carlson@netins.net" Organization: http://www.netins.net/showcase/goldenoak/gof.htm Subject: New Subscriber MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit We are new to the Bee list and new to beekeeping...and thought we would introduce ourselves... Roger & Wendy Carlson from Aledo, Illinois. We have just built our first two hives and ordered two 3lb. packages of bees (All-American from B. Weaver.. I hope that was a good choice for a begginer and this area!) I just had one quick question while you are apparently on the subject of foundation... with the Mann Lake Rite-Cell foundation...does this work with support pins or wireing the best..or do I need any at all? Roger & Wendy Carlson -- Visit us: at the Farm: "http://www.netins.net/showcase/goldenoak/gof.htm" at Aledo Time "http://www.netins.net/showcase/goldenoak/att.htm" ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 13 Apr 1997 15:44:03 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Rory Subject: TAKE ME OFF YOUR LIST MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit TAKE ME OFF YOUR LIST ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 13 Apr 1997 21:25:23 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: bartlett Subject: Re: Foundation Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Turned out to be 26 total old messages?????? bro bil ---------- > From: Roy Nettlebeck > To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU > Subject: Re: Foundation > Date: 13 avr. 1997 11:41 > > On Sat, 12 Apr 1997, Charles Harper wrote: > > > On Sat, 12 Apr 1997 15:29:15 -0400, Aaron Wolfenbarger wrote: > > > > >I was wondering if any of you are familier with the company Dadant. If so > > >they have a foundation for brood called Duraguilt(or durabuilt) TM and I was > > >wondering what the difference was. And since the Duraguilt has "communication > > >holes" that if those would make a difference as well. Thanks in advance. > > > > > >Aaron > > >Norris, TN > > >1st Year > > > > > > > > > They also sell plasticell foundation a bit higher in price but cheaper in the long run > > it has deeper cell starting. > > > > > > Harper's Honey farm > > Charles Harper > > charlie@iamerica.net > > > HI, > > When it comes to plastic foundation . plasticell is very good , but > spendy. > I have been using Permadent sold by Mann Lake. Now I just started using > Rite cell made by Mann Lake. It is more like plasticell but a lot less > money.They have the quality , now I hope they keep the price down. I would > like to see small beepeepers use the deep cell plastic foundation. It > lasts a long time and is easy to clean up , plus no wireing. > > Best Regards > Roy ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 13 Apr 1997 21:25:16 -0400 Reply-To: gwalter@massmed.org Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Gert-Paul Walter Subject: Re: problems with feeding syrup Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To all: an observation and a question- There has been much discussion regarding feeding syrup on this list. In the past, I tried various methods, settling on inverted 1 gallon plastic jars in an extra deep. It took weeks for the bees to drain the jars, often leaving some syrup that got moldy. The jars also collapsed in from the vacuum created by taking the syrup out. Then I saw the discussion re the ziplock bag method, and it seemed to work wonders last fall. The bees would clean out 3/4 gallon in 3-4 days. This spring I fed using both methods, with the same results. Today when I refilled the bag, I noticed something very interesting. I refilled holding open the 2 parallel slits (an X slit makes the bags less stable on refilling) with 3/4 gallon and set it on a screen on the top frames. None leaked out, and I closed up the hive. I then did some other work and when I came back 15 minutes later, there was syrup leaking from the front of the hive! Inside I found the top of the bag covered with hungry bees, and the weight seemed to be pressing down the bag around the slits and letting the syrup leak out! Has anyone else noticed this, and is this possibly why the bags seem to empty so quickly? thanks Gert Walter ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 13 Apr 1997 19:12:51 -0700 Reply-To: acuell@hooked.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Armando G. Cuellar, Jr." Organization: CATAMA Horse Ranch Subject: Re: Foundation MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Aaron Wolfenbarger wrote: > I was wondering if any of you are familier with the company Dadant. > If so > they have a foundation for brood called Duraguilt(or durabuilt) TM > and I was > wondering what the difference was. And since the Duraguilt has > "communication > holes" that if those would make a difference as well. Thanks in > advance. > > Aaron > Norris, TN > 1st Year I am also in my first year and purchased duragilt foundation from dadant. The reason I did so is because it comes with metal edges and allows you to secure it to the frame with pins instead of embedding wire into the foundation. Also, the foundation is sandwhiched on to a plastic sheet, making it more durable. So far it seems to work fine. I don't know what the communication holes are all about, though. Andy Cuellar Newby Beekeeper Walnut Creek, California -- MZ=90 ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 13 Apr 1997 22:04:21 +0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: George_Willy Subject: Re: Essential Oils Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >I am just wanting to know if any one had any and what type of success with >essential oils later fall and over winter. I overwintered 2 hives 1 with >patties with oils and 1 without. The hive that had oils if doing wounderful >and no signs of varroa. But the one without is very slow out of the gate here >and does have some might in the drone brood. Thanks for comments. > >B. Tucker > Polo MO B. Tucker I have been using the canola oil and wintergreen on paper towel method and am very happy with the results. I have not been able to find varroa or tracheal even under microscopic disection. I am in a somewhat isolated area and this may be the reason for low or nonexistant infestation. My neighbor three miles away does have a mite problem and has just started to treat last fall. I also treat with apistan spring and fall. Lost just one weak hive this winter due to size and stupidity. The mixture is one quart of canola oil and a .25 fl oz. of wintergreen and one roll of paper towels. Rip the towels apart at the perferations and place in plastic container that can be covered. Dump the wintergreen into the quart bottle of canola oil and shake vigorously. Being of different viscositys they do not want to mix but will after shaking. Canola oil is an oil that will evaporate carrying menthol through out the colony. Pour over immediately entire contents over the towels and let sit over night. When ever I manipulate or go in, I apply a towel on the top bars right in the way of traffic of each full super of brood or honey. The bees take approximately 2 days in chewing up the towels to remove them by carrying them out and depositing them in your yard. It is amazing how big a piece one bee can carry. This gets oil on the bee and its fellow workers and sufficates the mites. I believe the oil is also responsible for inhibiting the communication and navigational abilities of the mite. The reason wintergreen or peppermint or spearment or pachuli(sorry if this is misspelled) is that these plants contain menthol which force the trachael mite from the thorax. Using either artificial or natural menthols is satisfactory in that the artficial is the identical molecular structure as the natural. What I really like about this method is that it is more compatiable to the bees. Using menthol patties with my bees is useless in that the bees ignor them completely. Crystals are only good at certain temps. and sometimes the hive is much warmer than you think nearly sufficating the bees. I have opened hives on warm days and all you smell is menthol. I have also tasted honey from hives that have had menthol crystals used and tasted the menthol in the honey. I think that the taste must carry over in the wax. This method I have just explained is a result of experimentation by Bob Noels and has been written up in the American Bee Journal. This may not be the answer to everybodys mite problem but it seems to be working for me. George George & Lorraine Willy The Village Inn of East Burke Box 186 East Burke, Vermont 05832 ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 13 Apr 1997 22:04:26 +0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: George_Willy Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >I am getting ready to install my first packages (2) of bees this coming >Saturday (I'm very excited and nervous). I know that I need to feed >them plenty of syrup until our first flow. I am planning on just >sitting a bucket of syrup on the inner cover with a super and top cover >over it. I plan to put some sticks or something in the bucket for the >bees to land on. I have heard of drilling a bunch of little holes in a >bucket lid then inverting it, but I cant see any reason not to do what I >previously described. Could someone please tell me if my method will >work or am I missing the boat completely? > >Thanks for your time >A rookie in Utah >Rett Thorpe Your bees will drown. Take the time to set up a boardman feeder and place on the inner cover untill it warms up. The bees will come up through the finger hole and feed. As soon as it does warm up and the bees are flying set the feeder up at the front entrance. If you don't want to use a boardman feeder use a 1 gallon plastic baggie and fill it 3/4 full of syrup. Lay it flat on the inner cover and prick 50 holes in it with a pin on the top side only. The bees will come up and feed. No need to drown the bees. George & Lorraine Willy The Village Inn of East Burke Box 186 East Burke, Vermont 05832 ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 13 Apr 1997 22:04:35 +0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: George_Willy Subject: Re: Experimental Mite Treatments Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >Does anyone know the status of the approval process for making formic acid >a legal treatment in the US? What is the holdup? Is there a name and address >of someone you could write to to voice your support and/or complain about the >slow movement of the approval process? > >Also, is it possible to purchase small quantities of formic acid for >experimental use (treatment before or after the honey flow)? > >And what about NEEM oil? A friend of mine asked if anyone has tried it. Are >there any known problems with its use in the hive from an experimental >standpoint? Yes, it's not an approved substance in the US, but are there any >known detrimental effects? Providing that there is a possibility of safety, >is there a source for purchasing small quantities? > >Mike Swintosky >Carroll County Beekeepers Mike From what I know formic acid is extreemly caustic and in applying it via the wick process can be dangerous to both you and the bees. Breathing apparatus, gloves, temperature monitoring etc. A new sponge saturated method is being tested. FDA approval. We are all waiting. I'm not ready to try anything that would jeaprodize the bees and welcome scrutiny. George George & Lorraine Willy The Village Inn of East Burke Box 186 East Burke, Vermont 05832 ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 13 Apr 1997 23:07:42 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Steven A. Creasy" Subject: Re: Foundation Mann Lake is out of SHALLOW Rite Cell until Mid May. That is too lat for me here in Maryville, TN (Just South of Norris) so I ordered Pierco snap-in, deep-cell, plastic, wax-coated (whew!) foundation from Brushy Mountian Beefarm 1-800-BEESWAX. It is more expensive but they have it NOW! Steve Creasy- (\ Maryville, Tennessee USA {|||8- Proverbs 24:13, 25:16 (/ screasy@juno.com > When it comes to plastic foundation . plasticell is very good , but > spendy. > I have been using Permadent sold by Mann Lake. Now I just started using > Rite cell made by Mann Lake. It is more like plasticell but a lot less > money.They have the quality , now I hope they keep the price down. I would > like to see small beepeepers use the deep cell plastic foundation. It > lasts a long time and is easy to clean up , plus no wireing. > > Best Regards > Roy ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 13 Apr 1997 23:31:56 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Kirk Jones Subject: Wintering Report Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Our bees look great this spring in Northern Michigan, USA. Big clusters with about 12% blowouts. There will be a few more along the way, but they're looking awesome. Still a little snow, but spring is on the way. *Kirk Jones/ Sleeping Bear Apiaries /971 S. Pioneer Rd./Beulah,MI 49617 *Sharon Jones/ BeeDazzled Candleworks /6289 River Rd./ Benzonia, MI 49616 e-mail b-man@aliens.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 00:19:58 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Alden P. Marshall" Alden Marshall B-Line Apiaries Hudson, NH 03051 Busybee9@Juno.com tel. 603-883-6764 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 00:19:58 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Alden P. Marshall" Subject: Re: Charging for Swarms Nope, don't charge or don't go. If it's not convenient or to far suggest another beekeeper or contact source. If the swarm is beyond practical reach suggest it be allowed to boost the feral population. Alden Marshall B-Line Apiaries Hudson, NH 03051 Busybee9@Juno.com tel. 603-883-6764 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 00:19:58 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Alden P. Marshall" Subject: Re: Essential Oils On Sat, 12 Apr 1997 06:07:26 -0500 "Excerpts from BEE-L" writes: >Reply-to: Discussion of Bee Biology >From: Gene Dixon > >I put patties with oil on two hives. Both absconded. > Interesting! What did you have mixed with the oil? I use the patties as well as oil soaked napkins (100's) and haven't had your experience [yet]. Alden Marshall B-Line Apiaries Hudson, NH 03051 Busybee9@Juno.com tel. 603-883-6764 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 00:19:58 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Alden P. Marshall" Subject: Re: When to unwrap? On Fri, 11 Apr 1997 07:47:02 -0500 "Excerpts from BEE-L" writes: >Reply-to: Discussion of Bee Biology >From: Aaron Morris > >Last August at a workshop where preparation for the upcoming winter >was >being discussed, a gentleman who made dirt look young got up and >admonished >us young uns for coddling our bees. "You don't need no stinkin' >wraps! >You don't have to nurse your bees through the winter! In fact, you >should >get out to your hives in February, open 'em up and knock on the hives >just >to shake 'em up a bit!" He ranted for quite a while, but I was >impressed >by the wisdom of his years and listened to his advice figuring that if >his >advice was folly he would have ranted himself out of business a long >time >ago. His point was that this late winter shake up was what the bees >needed . > >Aaron Morris - I think, therefore I bee! > Most of us know that bees seem to survive in spite of us sometime. However, my experience has been there are dividends returned if we make life easier for the bees. I also wrap, not so my bees will survive the winter, because they usually will. I kind of like the fact that they consume half the honey and are ready to start gathering surplus when the real early flows come along. One need not manipulate frames either I suppose, but we know how well that queen fills up empty cells when they are in the appropriate place and the stores are sufficient but not crowding out potential brood space. It's the old saw, beehavers or beekeepers. Alden Marshall B-Line Apiaries Hudson, NH 03051 Busybee9@Juno.com tel. 603-883-6764 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 00:18:48 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Nelson Mendes Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I'm a biology major from Providence College and I need help in finding information on plant-insect simbiotic relationships like the relationship between yucca moths and yucca plants and the relationship between smyrna figs and the agaonid wasps. if you could give me the names of a few good articles (on the above mentioned insects) or give me suggestions on other relationships i would greatly appreciate it. Nelson A. Mendes Providence College PO Box 881 Providence, RI 02918 (401)865-3841 ---"It can't rain all the time." Brandon Lee, "The Crow" ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 09:30:09 +400 Reply-To: dgoodwin@yrhosp.ns.ca Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Dan Goodwin Organization: Yarmouth Hospital Subject: Disinfecting Nosema Hive Hi I have a hive which died from Nosema. The inside of the hive is quites dirty. Is there a procedure for cleaning/disinfecting so I can re-use the equipment safely. Thanks ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 14:51:12 +-200 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?J=F8rn_Johanesson?= Subject: Whops I must have been sleeping or are getting too Old MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable No Skandinavian Beekeepers please forgive me! I need to replicate = becouse I made an address error! Start announcement K=E6re Skandinaviske Biavler! da vi n=E6sten har samme skriftsprog, og sansynligvis forst=E5r hinanden udm=E6rket p=E5 skrift, s=E5 har vi i BEENET besluttet at oprette en = Skandinavisk sproget mailing list i stil med BEE-L mailinglisten. Navnet p=E5 mailing listen er SKAND-BI og den er koplet op p=E5 BEENET s=E5 interesserede = biavlere i BEENET ogs=E5 kan deltage. OBS! der er taget h=B0jde for de specielle nordiske karakterer. For at kople sig op skriv da en e-mail til listserver@beenet.pp.se med en ekelt linie i brevet : SUB SKAND-BI du vil s=E5 f=E5 en retur e-mail med yderligere oplysninger end announcement --=20 EDBI =3D Beekeeping software http://home4.inet.tele.dk/apimo/edbi.htm apimo@post4.tele.dk ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 13 Apr 1997 23:07:25 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: John Iannuzzi Subject: Help on Amitraz/Taktik for Bees MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII (1) A beefriend wants to know how to use the subject-line chemicals to control T- and V-mites in honeybees. Specifically, how does one cut the material in water and how is the resultant applied? I repeat: this query is NOT mine but posed by a friend. (2) New topic: I use the standard Apistan strips for Varroa treatment and a veggie-oil staturated paper towel for tracheal treatment--have NEVER used recommended menthol crystals. (3) Went into and came out of the winter with 14 strong hives. Of course, I Boardman-feed them going in and coming out, still doing so right now, whether they need the extra feed or not. Will discontinue any day now with the approach of the honeyflow (black locust and tulip poplar), 1may to 1june. ###john iannuzzi phd ###beekeeper 37 years ###14 colonies w/ paisano honeybees ###historic ellicott city md usa (10 mi W balto) ###guardian of "singing masons building roofs of gold" ###URL - http://www.xmetric.com/honey ###email: jiannuzz@mail.bcpl.lib.md.us [3fe972200] ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 08:50:37 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Robin Wells Subject: Re: problems with feeding syrup Comments: To: gwalter@massmed.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit It would seem to be a reason the bags empty quickly, however when I tried it I never filled my bags more than about half full to prevent this from happening. The bees did take the syrup down quickly enough, however I still prefer a larger feeder myself, although the larger feeders do have a higher initial capital requirement. ---------- > From: Gert-Paul Walter > To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU > Subject: Re: problems with feeding syrup > Date: Sunday, April 13, 1997 21:25 PM > > To all: an observation and a question- > There has been much discussion regarding feeding syrup on this list. > In the past, I tried various methods, settling on inverted 1 gallon > plastic jars in an extra deep. It took weeks for the bees to drain the > jars, often leaving some syrup that got moldy. The jars also collapsed > in from the vacuum created by taking the syrup out. Then I saw the > discussion re the ziplock bag method, and it seemed to work wonders last > fall. The bees would clean out 3/4 gallon in 3-4 days. > This spring I fed using both methods, with the same results. Today > when I refilled the bag, I noticed something very interesting. I > refilled holding open the 2 parallel slits (an X slit makes the bags > less stable on refilling) with 3/4 gallon and set it on a screen on the > top frames. None leaked out, and I closed up the hive. I then did some > other work and when I came back 15 minutes later, there was syrup > leaking from the front of the hive! Inside I found the top of the bag > covered with hungry bees, and the weight seemed to be pressing down the > bag around the slits and letting the syrup leak out! Has anyone else > noticed this, and is this possibly why the bags seem to empty so > quickly? > thanks Gert Walter ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 09:22:00 CDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Otto, Warren" Subject: Bee Pro Here are a couple of questions experienced beekeepers will know the answer to. This will be my first experience at beekeeping and I purchased some Bee-Pro pollen substitute on Saturday. It came as a powder in a bag. Do I mix it with anything or do I just feed it to the bees as a powder? My Prairie Beekeeping Manual talks about mixing your own substitute with soya flour, etc., etc. and forming it into patties, but it doesn't talk about what you do with a bought pollen substitute. One other question. Here in southern Manitoba we still have a lot of snow. In fact where I want to put my hives is still under 3' and I don't expect it to all be gone by the time the bees arrive (May 5). Can I install the bees and then move the brood chambers at the end of May when the location is clear of snow and dry? Thanx Warren Otto ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 09:15:17 -0600 Reply-To: allend@internode.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Allen Dick Organization: The Beekeepers Subject: Re: problems with feeding syrup In-Reply-To: <199704141245.IAA14221@bconnex.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT > The bees did take the syrup down quickly enough, however I still prefer a > larger feeder myself, although the larger feeders do have a higher initial > capital requirement. The biggest problem I see with this system is the amount of overhead room above the cluster required to accommodate the bag. In spring, we feel it is important to have a ceiling (lid or inner cover, or sack, or insulating pillow) immediately above the combs so that the warmth is kept down in the comb area where we want brood. An inner cover with an inverted pail allows for a good seal and low ceiling, as does using a frame feeder (our choice). The bags don't. Later, and in the fall, this is not a problem, and there is no need to limit the space since there are many more bees, the brood area is not so vulnerable, and the weather is not so tricky. Allen ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 11:22:54 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "P. Aras et M. Boily" Subject: Re: need bees! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Ed, I have never seen bees feeding at hummingbird feedesr. Wasps and ants yes, but wild and honey bees, no. If there are bees in or around your orchard in suffisant quantities, the flowers of the blooming trees will be all the attractant you need to attract pollinators. I dont know what kind of operation you are running but commercial orchard, with all their chemical paraphernalia, are the most desolate places I have seen in terms of indigenous pollinating insects. So if you think that there are not enough bees to pollinate your trees, you must introduce honeybees during the flowering period. Furthermore, you don't want to attract bees in your orchard when the trees are not in bloom as the pesticides treatment will kill them or at least, in the case of less harmfull substances, seriously affect them. If you're going bio, well it's a different story and pollinators management will only be one of the aspects of insect management you will have to intergrate. Sorry but I dont know what to tell you about your other two questions, I dont quite understand them. Bee happy. Phillipe Aras Carillon,Qc. Can. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 15:00:09 -0400 Reply-To: gwalter@massmed.org Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Gert-Paul Walter Subject: Re: temperature Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Query to all: Can anyone describe what happens to individual bees in cool/cold temps. The bees cluster at 57 degrees, but they obviously fly at lower temps. Also the inside of the hive must be much warmer than outside at that temp range. As the temp goes down, do bees have less flying time. Are they "warmed by the cluster" and are they then able to fly for a short distance for cleansing flights etc. At what temp does their flying activity fail to keep them warm enough so they don't make it back to the hive? Gert Walter ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 15:13:02 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ted Wout Subject: Re: Foundation I haven't had an opportunity to use RiteCell yet as it just came out this year. I gave up using Duragilt because of the bald plastic problem that the bees will not fix. I have settled on Permadent in honey supers for now and the best price I have found is at Lapp Bee Supply. For my brood chambers I have gone to wired pure beeswax foundation. It is more work but I am running a 5 year experiment to see if recycling old comb really reduces problems as indicated by Brother Adam in almost all of his books. My goal is to recycle at least 20% of my comb a year. I have some hives which will retain their old, dark used comb as a control. I render the old comb and send it in for making new foundation. This is the cheapest way to get foundation according to my calculations. Of course time is not added in this calculation. This is a hobby and I enjoy doing the work. If I were running a business my views would be different. I have the time for the most part, I want to save the money. My 12 year old son also works with me. He loves spending the time with me and the labor is cheap although you have to settle for lower quality of work. The quality of the time spent together is immeasurable. Ted Wout, 3rd year, 10 hives Red Oak, TX ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 15:07:02 -0500 Reply-To: barry@birkey.com Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Barry Birkey Organization: Birkey.com Subject: Re: Foundation MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Okay, I just have to stick my nose in now. It sure sounds like Duragilt is coming out on the junk pile from most everything that's being said in this thread. Is it just me or what? I've never used anything but Duragilt and can't say I share the problems that others are talking about! Sure, once in a great while you will get a piece of foundation that starts getting messed up from the beginning but that's due to a flow that's inadequate for supporting comb building in my experience. Once the foundation has been pulled out I've never had "bald" spots appear in the comb. Are all those who have had "bad" experiences with Duragilt telling us the "whole" story? Is it that the foundation is inferior or is it not being introduced properly? Is it a "bald" spot here and there or is it frame after frame of comb being cleared down to the plastic? Anyone else willing to stick their head out and admit to using Duragilt? :>) Happy with Duragilt in Illinois! -Barry -- Barry Birkey West Chicago, Illinois USA barry@birkey.com http://www.birkey.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 17:44:58 -0300 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ricardo Cantarelli Subject: "Bees Cemetery " MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_01BC48FB.926ADF80" Esta i uma mensagem de mzltiplas partes em formato MIME. ------=_NextPart_000_01BC48FB.926ADF80 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In Nortwest of Brazil, in the year of 1981, in Itacuruba city, State of Pernambuco, whit others two beekeepers, we find a umbuzeiro tree, common tree of north-eastern backlands, covered of bee. In almost alls branches have any millions of bees. In soil surface, there is a stratum with more or less of 5 cm of bees dead ( workers, drones and queens ). The all moments, news swarms arrived, don't pecept nothing abandoned the local. How we captured colonies, stayed very easy, sufficed we balance a branche in a nest, closed , and transfered it to any distance ( because the bees returned to the tree ). In a only day, we captured any tens of colonies. I will like of to know if anybody have much informations with this fact, in other locals. ------=_NextPart_000_01BC48FB.926ADF80 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

=             &= nbsp;           &n= bsp;           In = Nortwest of Brazil, in the year of 1981, in Itacuruba city, State of = Pernambuco, whit others two beekeepers, we find a umbuzeiro tree, common = tree of north-eastern backlands, covered of bee. In almost =  alls
branches have any millions of bees. In soil surface, there = is a stratum with more or less of 5 cm of bees dead   ( = workers, drones and queens ).  
=             &= nbsp;           &n= bsp;           The= all moments, news swarms arrived, don't  pecept nothing abandoned = the local.
=             &= nbsp;           &n= bsp;           How= we captured colonies, stayed very easy, sufficed we balance a branche = in a nest, closed , and  transfered it to any distance  ( = because the bees returned to the tree ). In a only day, we captured any = tens of colonies.
=             &= nbsp;           &n= bsp;           &nb= sp;   I will like  of to know if  anybody =   have much informations with this fact, in other locals.

------=_NextPart_000_01BC48FB.926ADF80-- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 17:45:26 -0300 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ricardo Cantarelli Subject: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?_Cemit=E9rio_de_abelhas_?= MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_01BC48FB.A30C1340" Esta i uma mensagem de mzltiplas partes em formato MIME. ------=_NextPart_000_01BC48FB.A30C1340 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by bbs.elogica.com.br id RAA10733 =20 Em minha regi=E3o, o Nordeste do Brasil, no ano d= e 1981, na cidade de Itacuruba, estado de Pernambuco, conjuntamente com outros dois apicultores, tivemos o prazer de encontrarmos um umbuzeiro, =E1rvore comum no Sert=E3o Nordestino, completamente coberto de abelhas. = Quase todos os seus ramos tinham milhares e milhares de abelhas. No solo formava-se uma camada de mais de 5 cm de abelhas mortas ( oper=E1rias, rainhas e zang=F5es ). A todo momento chegavam mais e mais enxames, n=E3o= se percebia nenhum abandonando o local. Como capturavamos col=F4nias, ficou bastante f=E1cil, bastava balan=E7armos um galho em um ninho, fech=E1-lo, levando-o em seguida para longe ( pois as abelhas se deixadas nas proximidades, retornavam para a =E1rvore ). Em um =FAnico dia =E9ra poss= =EDvel capturar-se algumas dezenas de col=F4nias. A prov=E1vel origem deste fato =E9 a forma=E7= =E3o de enxames com in=FAmeras rainhas, que num dado momento se agrupam formando = um conjunto sem a=E7=F5es coerentes. Gostaria de saber se algu=E9m mais teria alguma informa=E7=E3o sobre essas ocorr=EAncias em outras regi=F5es. =20 ------=_NextPart_000_01BC48FB.A30C1340 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

=             &= nbsp;           &n= bsp;   
=             &= nbsp;         Em minha = regi=E3o,  o Nordeste do Brasil, no ano de 1981, na  cidade de = Itacuruba, estado de Pernambuco,  conjuntamente com outros dois = apicultores, tivemos o prazer de encontrarmos um umbuzeiro, =E1rvore = comum no Sert=E3o Nordestino, completamente coberto de abelhas. Quase = todos os seus ramos tinham milhares e milhares de abelhas. No solo = formava-se uma camada de mais de 5 cm de abelhas mortas ( oper=E1rias, = rainhas e zang=F5es ). A todo momento chegavam mais e mais enxames, = n=E3o se percebia nenhum abandonando o local. Como capturavamos = col=F4nias, ficou bastante f=E1cil, bastava balan=E7armos um galho em um = ninho, fech=E1-lo, levando-o em seguida para longe ( pois as abelhas se = deixadas nas proximidades,  retornavam para a =E1rvore ). Em um = =FAnico dia =E9ra poss=EDvel capturar-se algumas dezenas de = col=F4nias.

=             &= nbsp;           &n= bsp;  A prov=E1vel origem deste fato =E9 a forma=E7=E3o de = enxames com in=FAmeras rainhas, que num dado momento se agrupam formando = um conjunto sem a=E7=F5es coerentes.

=             &= nbsp;           Go= staria de saber se algu=E9m mais teria alguma informa=E7=E3o sobre essas = ocorr=EAncias em outras regi=F5es.








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------=_NextPart_000_01BC48FB.A30C1340-- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 17:24:05 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ted Wout Subject: Re: Foundation - Duragilt In light of Barry Birkey's experience, I'll share some specifics: 1. I like to have a gathering of folks help with uncapping, extracting and cleanup. Everyone likes to have a turn with the "hot knife" and sometimes they'll push a little hard or whatever. When I use the knife I don't normally have this problem, unless the knife comes unplugged, but they'll literally pull a little foundation from the plastic. I don't want to turn it up much more because it starts smoking it gets so hot. 2. From time to time some drone brood is in one of the honey supers. With other foundation I'll just take a hive tool and cut it out. The next year the bees draw it back out. Not so with Duragilt. It will create a "bald" spot. 3. I suspect that the bees "borrow" wax from one frame to cap off another or finish drawing out some comb. I'm not sure but it just happens and you have another "bald" spot. If it's a great flow this is not a problem. I don't have this with other foundation. This is not a major problem but I just don't have it with other foundation. It is true that this is not a major problem. It's just a nagging problem. I think that we all like to see nice full frames completely capped off with no "bald" spots or incompletely drawn areas for that matter. Since Permadent is priced comparably (I think I get it cheaper than Duragilt!) and doesn't have the problem, it makes sense to me to use it. Unless I hear that RiteCell is better than Permadent I'll stick with Permadent. I feel that it gives me the most bang for the buck in honey supers. As I stated in my last post concerning foundation, wired wax is my choice for brood because I can recycle the wax that I pull out of hives. Ted Wout Red Oak, TX ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 19:21:52 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ken Lawrence Subject: Re: Foundation Comments: To: barry@birkey.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Barry Birkey wrote: > > Okay, I just have to stick my nose in now. It sure sounds like Duragilt is coming out on > the junk pile from most everything that's being said in this thread. Is it just me or > what? I've never used anything but Duragilt and can't say I share the problems that > others are talking about! Sure, once in a great while you will get a piece of foundation > that starts getting messed up from the beginning but that's due to a flow that's > inadequate for supporting comb building in my experience. Once the foundation has > been pulled out I've never had "bald" spots appear in the comb. Are all those who have > had "bad" experiences with Duragilt telling us the "whole" story? Is it that the > foundation is inferior or is it not being introduced properly? Is it a "bald" spot here and > there or is it frame after frame of comb being cleared down to the plastic? Anyone else > willing to stick their head out and admit to using Duragilt? :>) > > Happy with Duragilt in Illinois! > > -Barry > > -- > Barry Birkey > West Chicago, Illinois USA > barry@birkey.com > http://www.birkey.com Hello Barry I have over 200 Med. Supers in my honey house that has Duragilt in them and don't have much to say against it. I just got another 12.5 pound box to keep on hand. It is also in all my hivebodies. Ken ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 19:52:14 -0500 Reply-To: barry@birkey.com Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Barry Birkey Organization: Birkey.com Subject: Re: Foundation - Duragilt MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello Ted - I'll just mention a few things in response to your points. Purely from a "sharing experiences" point of view. > normally have this problem, unless the knife comes unplugged, but they'll > literally pull a little foundation from the plastic. I don't want to turn > it up much more because it starts smoking it gets so hot. I have always just used an 8" serrated knife for uncapping. Haven't experienced the comb pulling away from the plastic base with this. > 2. From time to time some drone brood is in one of the honey supers. With > other foundation I'll just take a hive tool and cut it out. The next year > the bees draw it back out. Not so with Duragilt. It will create a "bald" > spot. When ever I get brood of any kind up in the supers and I must extract before they emerge, I just leave it alone (capped) and uncap everything else around it. That way I'm not destroying any comb. This wouldn't work if you have open brood I'll admit. Of course I'm not so sure even a little brood getting in with the honey is going to be a problem if you are going to be straining the honey before you bottle it anyway. > feel that it gives me the most bang for the buck in honey supers. As I > stated in my last post concerning foundation, wired wax is my choice for > brood because I can recycle the wax that I pull out of hives. You still ought to be able to completey recycle wax from Duragilt foundation also. A day in the solar melter will give wax free sheets of plastic (which can't be reused I'll admit). Not saying that Duragilt is the best way to go, only that I guess we all have our own personal prefrence in foundation and maybe there are certian drawbacks to every type of foundation available. I find it very interesting the wide range of experience shared on this list. Thanks Ted! Regards -Barry -- Barry Birkey West Chicago, Illinois USA barry@birkey.com http://www.birkey.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 21:02:27 +0100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Joel Govostes Subject: Re: Foundation Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" The Duragilt is certainly easy to install. Also, easy to replace, as you just punch out the comb. This works especially well in cold weather. Then you can flex and bend the comb and the wax will separate from the plastic sheet very easily and fall right off in chunks. The "bald spots" are annoying. Some colonies will chew the wax down to the plastic along the lower edge, especially if next to the entrance. Then they won't build on the bare plastic ever again. Still, considering the ease of use, Duragilt has certain advantages over wired wax foundation. Just to remove a bad comb from a frame can be a pain with the wired stuff. I have found in my apiaries that the combs well-built on Duragilt (nice, even, worker comb "wood-to-wood") are the best combs in the hives, and tend to stay that way. Every once in a while the bald spots will show up, but it is not that common. (Sometimes this is a result of mouse-damage, too.) If I have the Duragilt, I suppose I prefer it. My stock right now is almost all crimp-wired fdn, which I also cross-wire into the frames. Economical, but probably not as much if you figure in the time involved. Haven't tried the molded foundations yet. Anyone have a vote for "Duracomb?" It is Duragilt without the metal edges. It is a bit cheaper, but I've never tried it. I wonder if the metal edges are so necessary. Cheers, JWG Freeville, NY ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 23:28:46 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Edward A Markus Subject: HeartsHomeFarm: HeartsHomeFarm: Question: Warming 55 Gallons of HFCS --------- Begin forwarded message ---------- From: HeartsHomeFarm To: listserv@uacsc2.albany.edu Subject: HeartsHomeFarm: Question: Warming 55 Gallons of HFCS Date: Sun, 9 Mar 1997 19:28:45 PST Message-ID: <19970309.192631.14614.3.HeartsHomeFarm@juno.com> --------- Begin forwarded message ---------- From: HeartsHomeFarm To: LISTSERV@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU Subject: Question: Warming 55 Gallons of HFCS Date: Sat, 15 Mar 1997 08:49:23 PST Message-ID: <19970315.084728.11470.0.HeartsHomeFarm@juno.com> A not so new but still struggling beekeeper (myself), asks, now that have I found a source of HFCS I feel I can afford , how the heck do I reliquify a barrel of this great product? 1. cheaply 2. easily ?? Being new to BEE-L and E-mail I have questions that probably have been beaten to death. Oh well, nothing ventured nothing flamed! Here in NW Washington state we have a reasonable Spring and early Summer nectar flow, but generally and except for fireweed in the clearcuts, late Summer and Fall flows do not exist. With Italian queens I get a good early spring build up and a huge hungry population of bees in the Fall . By reputation (in my case) Carniolans and others shut down , so to speak, in the Fall. But my information is for a slower spring build up with the other races and I really want to have my hives (all three) ready for pollination in our ever increasing local commercial apple orchards. Is there a happy medium? Thanks Ed Markus PYB(Please Yak Back) HeartsHomeFarm@juno.com --------- End forwarded message ---------- --------- End forwarded message ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 22:51:34 -0500 Reply-To: barry@birkey.com Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Barry Birkey Organization: Birkey.com Subject: Re: HeartsHomeFarm: HeartsHomeFarm: Question: Warming 55 Gallons of HFCS MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Edward A Markus wrote: > > A not so new but still struggling beekeeper (myself), asks, now that > have I found a source of HFCS I feel I can afford , how the heck do I > reliquify a barrel of this great product? 1. cheaply 2. easily ?? It sounds like you and Mr. Eyre ought to talk to each other. Didn't we just hear of a nifty solution to this problem coming from Canada? Some kind of band heater? Take it from here, David. -Barry Barry Birkey West Chicago, Illinois USA barry@birkey.com http://www.birkey.com