From LISTSERV@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU Mon Jun 30 09:09:16 1997 Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 08:57:38 -0400 From: "L-Soft list server at University at Albany (1.8c)" To: Adam Finkelstein Subject: File: "BEE-L LOG9704D" ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Apr 1997 00:42:05 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Brian R Tucker Subject: Re: Split hives, new foundation Take a few drawn frames from the bottom and put in the top next to the foundation the bees then will start the foundation faster. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Apr 1997 09:47:36 GMT+0100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Anthony Morgan Organization: HiST/AIN/IET Subject: Re: 'Natural' Cures MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT While on the subject of "Natural cures" we have all read (one way or another) about Dr. Pedro Rodriguez' anti-varroa method using wax strips + food grade mineral oil (liquid paraffin?) -- be aware that an italian report at: http://www.eureka.it/4a/english.htm describes the use of castor oil smeared on the frame tops and the underside of the top cover to obtain the same result. The reasoning for the effectiveness of the oil is identical with Dr. Rodriguez'. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Since 20th. Sept last the bees have been out once for approx trwo hours! Its getting brighter and warmer in the middle of the day but north winds, cold temps. and snow showers are forecast for at least another week. One hive that acted as a wind break for the others had to be taken into the equipment shed (warmish, no wind, no snow showers under cover!) to be given a couple of frames of sugar syrup being kept for splits. The frames had been previously warmed up in the house and the cappings were scraped with a knife to release the smell and encourage cleaning-up/feeding as they were inserted. Tony Morgan Trondheim Norway ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Apr 1997 12:56:35 +0000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: tomas mozer Subject: Re: bumblebees, anyone? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" you might try to track down Margriet Wyborn through the simon fraser university (burnaby,b.c.) bee lab c/o dr. Mark Winston. she was doing work there on bumblebees a few years ago and I understand she spun off a commercial pollination venture...she used to go to bellingham to participate in folk dancing circles, so you could maybe meet halfway so to speak...good luck on your quest. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Apr 1997 13:11:42 +0000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: tomas mozer Subject: Re: varroa and feral bees Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" the usda/ars honey bee research unit web site at http://rsru2.tamu.edu/hbru/hbru95.htm has some related research abstracts along with references/links that may be of interest ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Apr 1997 15:14:51 +0200 Reply-To: jtemp@xs4all.nl Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jan Tempelman Organization: Home Subject: Re: mortality rates and HMF MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-2 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Walter Patton wrote: > Next can someone explain HMF in honey. Is it good or is it bad and how. > Where does it come from and what causes it. Does its presence in Honey > increase over time? Some help would be appreciated. > Walter in Hawaii HMF >>> hydroxy-methyl-furfural. new honey contains 1 till 5 mg/kg HMF. During ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Apr 1997 21:20:43 +1200 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Nick Wallingford Organization: Bay of Plenty Polytechnic Subject: NZ honey testing... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: Quoted-printable Honey used in trials against superbugs Wellington, April 21 - New Zealand honey is being tested in the fight against antibiotics-resistant ``superbugs''. Two types of honey -- clover and manuka -- have been used in laboratory trials at Wellington's Communicable Disease Centre, associate professor Peter Molan, of Waikato University, said in a statement. In studies which were completed this month the honeys were tested against seven multi-resistant staphylococcus aureus bacteria, and were successful in killing all seven strains, he said. Manuka honey had been used in stomach ulcer research, while the clover blend honey had high concentrations of hydrogen peroxide (a natural antibacterial agent). Dr Molan, co-director of the New Zealand Honey Research unit, said the work to date had been in the laboratory, not on actual wounds. The next stage was to develop clinical trials. The Honey Research Unit was examining the logistics of trials being held in New Zealand, but as there were few cases of superbug infection here, the trials might have to be carried out overseas. Dr Molan said manuka honey's antibacterial compound was more stable than that found in other honey types, which meant it would be used in future developments. New Zealand produced around 300 tonnes of manuka honey annually. Dr Molan was awarded an MBE in 1995 for his research into the healing properties of honey. His research into the use of manuka honey against the bacteria that causes stomach ulcers was published in the Royal Society of Medicine Journal. =A9 New Zealand Press Association (\ Nick Wallingford {|||8- home nickw@wave.co.nz (/ work nw1@boppoly.ac.nz NZ Beekeeping http://www.wave.co.nz/pages/nickw/nzbkpg.htm ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Apr 1997 09:22:48 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Marc Sevigny Subject: More Newbie questions on first hive Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hello, Thanks for the advice I received last week. I had a queen who was still in her cage one week after installation. The advice that I took was to open up the opening though the candy more to release her quickly. The following day, I opened up the hive quickly, and there was a bee in the queen cage, but I think it was a worker, probably attracted by the scent on the queen cage, in fact, lots of bees were tending the cage even though I suspect that she wasn't inside, her effects are long lasting, I presume. (This brings up the question, when examining, I find the veil obstructs my vision greatly. Do you become used to it, or is that something I have to live with? My first question is how long should I continue feeding sugar syrup? They are still taking in large quantities. (I've given them over 15 lbs of sugar in two weeks! I never expected this hobby to be economical, but this is worse than my chicken hobby :-) At what point should I add the second deep frames? I currently have my feeder on top of my inner cover which is over the first deep. Then I have the body of the second deep on top of the first, with a 1 gallon feeder over the hole in the top cover. I was planning on putting the frames in the second deep as soon as the frames on the bottom deep appear to be fully drawn out. Is this too late? Should I put the frames in before the outermost frames are drawn out? I've read that the best time for opening up the hive is during the day when most bees are foraging. But I am usually not home until 6:00PM. I've not read if it is risky to open up the hive at that time, or just not optimal. Opinions? I've heard conflicting opinions on how often to open up the hive. I'd like to see what is going on often, but I don't want to upset them unnecessarily. What is a good frequency of checking the hive wihtout become a nuisance to them? Lastly, what type of veil is preferred? Is there such a thing as veils with plexiglass over the eyes to help the viewing? What is the name and phone number of a company that has a catalog that I can look at and possibly order from? Thanks, Marc ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Apr 1997 07:37:35 -0600 Reply-To: allend@internode.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Allen Dick Organization: The Beekeepers Subject: Re: 'Natural' Cures In-Reply-To: <98682E05ED7@iet-1.iet.hist.no> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT > an italian report at: > > http://www.eureka.it/4a/english.htm > > describes the use of castor oil ... Here is that text (Cleaned up a bit): NEWS ON VARROA FIGHT After one year of experimentation we can tell that a varroacidal effect can be obteined by the insertion of seed oil (the one for alimentary use) in the hives. Oil is surely known, in the centuries, in the fight against the parasitic mites of man (lice, crab-lice) and other domestic animals (ticks). Its effect is based on suffocating, in fact, the varroa - which has a high surface/volume ratio due to its flat form. (Varroa) makes a great part of it's oxygenation through its chitinous cover; if its pores are obstructed from the oil, the varroa dies of suffocation. For this it's necessary to grease the upper part of the frames and of the top; bees, walking across the frames, dirty their legs, and trying to clean themselves, spread the oil all over their body. We suggest to go on in this way: Take off the top, (knock) the bees from it into the hive and paint (it) using 15cc of oil. Remove the bees from the frames by a little of smoke, and spray a trickle of oil (about 1 cc) by a sprayer on the upper part of the wood sheet(topbar) of every frame (it' s not necessary to take off (out) the frames). Beware to not spray oil directly on bees. Beware to not spray oil between frame and frame. Beware to not put oil on frame's sides. Luckily, because of its density, in the sprayers the oil tends to discharge (as a) stream and not vaporized. That makes it easier. This method of fight has many advantages: 1) It doesn' t injure to the image of the honey because it doesn' t induce scare of eventual residues. 2) It can be used also in the "harvest-time" with out problems of contamination of honey with noxious substances to man' s feeding. 3) It is easy to use and it doesn' t need a great effort of the beekeeper. 4) It can be used during all the normal visits to the hives. But, as disadvantage, we can tell that, acting only on varroa that parasite the adult bee (phoretic mites) and not on those that parasitize the eggs (larvae), the method has a limited effect. To obtain a result you have to repeat at least 4 treatments in a month (one a week). Anyway the oil is also a good way to introduce other active substances (of natural origin) in the hive, i.e.: thyimol and menthol, that split up (dissolve) in it, so that you can obtain a synergic effect and longer during the time, with a great result. Translation by: Francesca Quadrini ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 20:17:04 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Bob Arnett Subject: 'H' Bees Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" We recently started working with bees and have three hives. We are taking a class at a local college and are very excited about all we are learning. Two friends recently related to us of Southern California childhood memories of a type of non-stinging bee. They called them 'H' bees because of a distinctive mark on their backs. Can anyone tell me more about these 'H' bees. Where we live a non-stinging bee would be most neighborly and I wonder if these might be domesticated and commercially available. I would appreciate any information that could be provided me. Thank you for your time and help. Ty Riley The Colony Burnt Ranch, CA 95527 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Apr 1997 18:45:16 +0200 Reply-To: jtemp@xs4all.nl Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jan Tempelman Organization: Home Subject: HMF MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-2 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On HMF look at http://www.xs4all.nl/~jtemp/hmf.html -- -------------------------------------------------------- Jan Tempelman / Ineke Drabbe | EMAIL:jtemp@xs4all.nl Sterremos 16 3069 AS Rotterdam, The Netherlands Tel/Fax (SOMETIMES) XX 31 (0)10-4569412 homepage webside: http://www.xs4all.nl/~jtemp/index2.html webside van het AmbrosiusGilde: http://www.xs4all.nl/~jtemp/ambro_index.html webside for NECTAR: http://www.xs4all.nl/~jtemp/nectar_index.html with some pages in english on solitary bees -------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Apr 1997 13:23:16 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ted Wout Subject: More Newbie questions on first hive Marc Sevigny wrote: >The following day, I opened up the hive quickly, and there was a bee in the queen cage, but I think it was a >worker, probably attracted by the scent on the queen cage, in fact, lots of bees were tending the cage even >though I suspect that she wasn't inside, her effects are long lasting, I presume. Every time that I've released a queen in a queen cage I've seen bees all over it and had to blow them out to get them out. I think you're right, the queen's pheromone on the cage is attracting them. >(This brings up the question, when examining, I find the veil obstructs my vision greatly. Do you become >used to it, or is that something I have to live with? I've become used to it. Of course you'll never have the vision of no veil but it's not that bad. I don't use it when I'm working my calm bees. I had two hives that were so mean that you couldn't get within 50' of them before guards started attacking. They have been requeened and I'm waiting for the former queens offspring to die off so that I can enjoy working that hive again. I always keep the veil around when working the bees. Most of my hives will buzz you before attacking. If you vacate quickly and don the veil before continuing work you get no stings. It takes a while I think to reach this stage. You'll learn how much smoke to use, how to handle the frames and hive tool, and how not to be nervous. I think that the bees can key on my attitude. When I was nervous around them they attacked. Now that I've become calm around them, they're calm. >My first question is how long should I continue feeding sugar syrup? They are still taking in large quantities. >(I've given them over 15 lbs of sugar in two weeks! I never expected this hobby to be economical, but this is >worse than my chicken hobby :-) Feed them as much as they'll take. They're using this sugar to build comb. If you're not feeding them they'll use nectar and honey to build comb. Sugar is less expensive than honey right now so the math makes sense. You can't really put a value on comb, but it's very important to you as a beekeeper. If you have healthy hives in the spring and plan to expand with more package bees, remove some drawn comb from your hives and give that to new packages. It gets them started much quicker because the queen can go to town laying eggs immediately. Newly hived bees have a propensity for building comb. Take advantage of that. >At what point should I add the second deep frames? I currently have my feeder on top of my inner cover >which is over the first deep. Then I have the body of the second deep on top of the first, with a 1 gallon feeder >over the hole in the top cover. I was planning on putting the frames in the second deep as soon as the >frames on the bottom deep appear to be fully drawn out. Is this too late? Should I put the frames in before >the outermost frames are drawn out? Yes, you should not let them run out of foundation to build if they're in the mood. Another consideration is that you're feeding them and they're thinking it's spring with a heavy flow. If they run out of room they may swarm and that's a dramatic set back. You should have the new frames in before they have filled 8 of the frames in the current box. This presents a problem with the feeder you're using because you need another hive body to house the feeder. This is one of the reasons I like Boardman feeders but I don't want to start that argument on the list right now. >I've read that the best time for opening up the hive is during the day when most bees are foraging. But I am >usually not home until 6:00PM. I've not read if it is risky to open up the hive at that time, or just not optimal. >Opinions? Late afternoon is best in my opinion. The bees are still out foraging heavily so there aren't many old bees(guards) around to take exception to your working them. Once you have manipulated them they pretty much shut down for the day so later is better. >I've heard conflicting opinions on how often to open up the hive. I'd like to see what is going on often, but I >don't want to upset them unnecessarily. What is a good frequency of checking the hive wihtout become a >nuisance to them? Because they'll shut down after you've opened them, you're setting them back every time you do so. How often do you want to shut your bees down? Only when necessary is my answer. Of course you're new to beekeeping and want to learn and watch. You will not learn unless you work them and make some mistakes and get messy. There's a trade off here. You make the call. I have been warned that you can actually chase your bees away. If you open them up too much they'll figure that this home is not optimum and abscond. I have not experienced this but my beekeeping mentor told me so, I think, to get me to moderate my hive manipulations when I first started. There are several signs you can read from watching your landing board on the hive. If they're bringing in lots of pollen they're probably queen-right and have lots of babies. If you use Boardman feeders, you can guage how much sugar they're taking by watching the level in the jar and seeing how often a bubble rises to the top. Count the comers and goers to see how much foraging is going on. Many first flights is a good sign also. Dragging dead brood out, you've got some sort of problem. There's an art to being able to look at the hive and tell what's going on inside. You'll learn that in time also. >Lastly, what type of veil is preferred? Is there such a thing as veils with plexiglass over the eyes to help the >viewing? What is the name and phone number of a company that has a catalog that I can look at and >possibly order from? I've never seen a veil with a window like you described. Maybe you've got a good idea. Build a prototype and try it out. My favorite beekeeping supply dealer is Lapp Bee Supply in Reeseville, WI @ 800-321-1960. You can also find many others in American Bee Journal and Bee Culture magazines. I believe Kim Flottum, the editor of Bee Culture, is on this list. He once offered to give out free samples. I took him up on it and now have a subscription I loved it so much. I always meant to thank him publicly on the list. Thanks Kim and does that offer still stand for new beekeepers? Marc, enjoy your new hobby and keep asking questions. You'll love what you learn. Ted Wout Red Oak, TX ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Apr 1997 13:01:40 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Dave from Scranton Subject: Georgia Weather? In-Reply-To: <335CEB1B.67DB@xs4all.nl> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Anyone know how the weather in the US state of Georgia these days? I'm waiting for some packages from York, in Jessup and wanted to know if there's a weather delay like last spring. Weather here hasn't been fun here, it's been cold and rainy or at night down to almost freezing. The dandalions are barely popping up. I'm not very happy with it. ****************************************************************************** Dave D. Cawley, Maitre d' | The Internet Cafe | Scranton, Pennsylvania | (717) 344-1969 | dave@scranton.com | ****************************************************************************** URL => http://www.scranton.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Apr 1997 20:28:23 +0200 Reply-To: jtemp@xs4all.nl Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jan Tempelman Organization: Home Subject: AMBROSIUS MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-2 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit LOOK AT http://home.pi.net/~ambros/stambr.htm -- -------------------------------------------------------- Jan Tempelman / Ineke Drabbe | EMAIL:jtemp@xs4all.nl Sterremos 16 3069 AS Rotterdam, The Netherlands Tel/Fax (SOMETIMES) XX 31 (0)10-4569412 homepage webside: http://www.xs4all.nl/~jtemp/index2.html webside van het AmbrosiusGilde: http://www.xs4all.nl/~jtemp/ambro_index.html webside for NECTAR: http://www.xs4all.nl/~jtemp/nectar_index.html with some pages in english on solitary bees -------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Apr 1997 11:34:43 -0800 Reply-To: beeman@Alaska.NET Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Tom & Carol Elliott Organization: Home Subject: Re: More Newbie questions on first hive MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Marc Sevigny wrote: > (This brings up the question, when examining, I find the veil obstructs my vision greatly. > Do you become used to it, or is that something I have to live with? I would recommend getting together with a longtime beekeeper who does not routinely use a veil. Doing that I learned a lot about how to handle bees. Now I do not even use a veil unless I am dealing with someone elses hive that has demonstrated to me that they insist I wear it. I rarely get stung, and then when I do it is normally on the finger (from mashing a bee). I do not recommend you do this until you are comfortable with it and have a little experience with bees. > My first question is how long should I continue feeding sugar syrup? They are > still taking in large quantities. (I've given them over 15 lbs of sugar in > two weeks! I never expected this hobby to be economical, but this is worse > than my chicken hobby :-) Here in Alaska we anticipate feeding at least 20 pounds of sugar per hive when installing on new foundation. Someone local should be able to give you a better idea of when to stop feeding. > At what point should I add the second deep frames? . . .I was planning on second deep as > putting the frames in the soon as the frames on the bottom deep appear to be fully drawn out. > Is this too late? Should I put the frames in before the outermost frames are drawn > out? I would venture to say that you will not get the outside frames drawn out without some moving of frames. So, I would add the second story when the bees have pretty well drawn out 7 or 8 frames. They will continue working above the existing brood nest, but you can put drawn frames from up above in the first story. Then the bees will continue working on foundation. Note: You must either have a nectar flow or be feeding sugar syrup to get foundation drawn. Again a local guru would be of vast value. Don't let the first story get too crowded waiting for foundation to be drawn. > I've read that the best time for opening up the hive is during the day when > most bees are foraging. But I am usually not home until 6:00PM. I've not > read if it is risky to open up the hive at that time, or just not optimal. > Opinions? I rarely get home before 6:00 and find it no problem. On the other hand it is light most all night during the summer, here. > I've heard conflicting opinions on how often to open up the hive. I'd like to > see what is going on often, but I don't want to upset them unnecessarily. > What is a good frequency of checking the hive wihtout become a nuisance to > them? I recommend a weekly openning of the hive for new beekeepers. It is true that openning that often may reduce the honey crop, but the lose is far offset by the learning experience of actually getting into the hive. When you are more experienced less often is better, perhaps. But, why are you keeping bees? To get honey, or have a good, healthly, educational, fun time? After 16 years, I still open my bees most weeks. You want to examine them weekly during the prime swarm season, at least. - - - - - - - - - - - - "Test everything. Hold on to the good." (1 Thessalonians 5:21) Tom Elliott Eagle River, Alaska U.S.A. beeman@alaska.net ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Apr 1997 16:10:21 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Albert W Needham Subject: Re: More Newbie questions on first hive On Tue, 22 Apr 1997 13:23:16 -0400 Ted Wout writes: >Marc Sevigny wrote: >>Lastly, what type of veil is preferred? Is there such a thing as >veils with plexiglass over the eyes to help the viewing? >I've never seen a veil with a window like you described. Maybe you've >got a good idea. Ted, that is a >great idea for some entrepreneur on this list to create !< I also find veils a pain. Sometimes I'll start without one and then when I hear the warning buzzes around my head - I have to leave quickly & go get it. Perhaps the thing to do is have one about the size that you see on Motorcyclists. One could also have a ring of small [smaller than a bee that is :-) ] holes maybe four or five deep around the outer edge of the field of vision for ventilation. Al. Al Needham--Scituate,MA,USA--awneedham@juno.com Author Of "The HoneyBee"--An Educational Program Check Out " The Amazing BeeCam " At: http://www.xensei.com/users/alwine/ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Apr 1997 16:33:57 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Don Martin Subject: Re: Georgia Weather? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dave from Scranton wrote: > > Anyone know how the weather in the US state of Georgia these days? > I'm waiting for some packages from York, in Jessup and wanted to know if > there's a weather delay like last spring. > Weather here hasn't been fun here, it's been cold and rainy or at > night down to almost freezing. The dandalions are barely popping up. I'm > not very happy with it. > > ****************************************************************************** > Dave D. Cawley, Maitre d' | > The Internet Cafe | > Scranton, Pennsylvania | > (717) 344-1969 | > dave@scranton.com | > ****************************************************************************** > URL => http://www.scranton.com Atlanta GA weather highs 70s lows 50s rain mon and tue nights. and the blackberry and tulip poplar flow is going strong good luck Don ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Apr 1997 14:43:55 -0600 Reply-To: allend@internode.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Allen Dick Organization: The Beekeepers Subject: Measuring Nutritional Status MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT The question of bee nutrition may be very closely related to understanding why bees sometimes thrive, and sometimes perish in apparently similar circumstances. In particular, I am convinced that our bees here in Central Alberta are often protein short due to shortage of pollen or poor quality pollen. The article that Nick was offering on his web site some time back was particularly intriguing in that it mentioned assaying bees in Australia at various times for body protein content. I have since often wondered how one goes about getting such an assay done, and what the standard measurements are. I suppose food labs may well do this type of work, but unless some previous work, is used to compare, the measurements would be only relative. Does anyone on this list know where and how to have the necessary protein measurements made? It would seem to me that onceb a lab is located, that any beekeeper or group of beekeepers could monitor the nutritional status of their hives on a seasonal basis and also evaluate the effectiveness - or lack thereof in using pollen supplements and substitutes. Allen ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Apr 1997 14:00:36 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Roy Nettlebeck Subject: Use of more than one mite control MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Hello All, We are starting to recieve spring here in western Washington State USA. So I'm doing my first real inspection down to the bottem board. I have learned a few things that might help someone else. First. I used Apistan strips in early september, then 2 weeks later I put a sheet of paper towel with about 2 cc's of wesson oil and pepermint oil. ( the oil mix was 6 drops of pepermint oil to 1/2 gallon of wesson oil.Two weeks later ,I checked the bees and noticed that all of the paper towls was out side the hive.Then I mixed up 3 pounds of crisco a pint of honey and a teasepoon of pepermint oil. To that mixture I added granulated sugar to thicken it up some. I spread about a tablespoon of the mixture over the ends of the frames in each box. ( one box - one tablespoon.) The normal preperation for winter then was added. Good stores , ventilation ( I used a new inter cover to help get out the moisture, plus I put closed cell insulation over the bees ( 1 and 2 inches thick ) I did not see any differance between the use of one over the other. The results are mine blowing.I lost one out of 50. the queen just kept on laying. I have one that is in two deeps and two 6 5/8 in. boxs and all 4 boxs are full of brood.I knew my bees did look good , but not that good. One part of this is very important. Use more that one gun to get the mites.I put in some apistan strips yeasterday to check for varroa. This morning I could not find any on the sticky boards. I only did 3 hives. I will do more. My bees look healthy and if you have watched them as long as I have , you can tell if something is wrong. The mite kicked me hard the year before and from know on its my turn.Beware-- don't just start mixing up anything. Mint oil is extremly variable.It is toxic to the bees if it is too strong. That is why we need to have some standards set and need more research. I do think that the oils and breeding are the answers.We need very healthy brood that is raised in a natural inviornment.By hitting them like I did, I belive that the number that is left in the total of all of my hive is close to O. We will see, but when all of your hives look like they are ready to swarm with very high populations of , you can't have much of any kind of a problem. We have had very rainy weather , so they have been do there thing with a negative enviornment to expand with. I'm sorry I did not do any controls , but I wanted live bees and kick that mites back side. Best Regards Roy ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Apr 1997 09:44:09 +1200 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Cliff Van Eaton Subject: Renewal of your subscription to the BEE-L list -Forwarded Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Received: from CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU by CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU (IBM VM SMTP V2R3) with BSMTP id 9695; Tue, 22 Apr 97 06:00:18 EDT Received: from CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU (NJE origin LISTSERV@ALBNYVM1) by CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU (LMail V1.2c/1.8c) with BSMTP id 9425; Tue, 22 Apr 1997 06:00:13 -0400 X-LSV-ListID: BEE-L Date: Tue, 22 Apr 1997 22:00:10 +1200 From: "L-Soft list server at University at Albany (1.8c)" Subject: Renewal of your subscription to the BEE-L list Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Tue, 22 Apr 1997 06:00:09 Your subscription to the BEE-L list is due for renewal. If you wish to remain subscribed to BEE-L, please issue the following command to LISTSERV@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU at your earliest convenience: CONFIRM BEE-L You will be automatically removed from the list if you do not send a CONFIRM command within the next 14 days. PS: In order to facilitate the task, this message has been specially formatted so that you only need to forward it back to LISTSERV@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU to have the command executed. Note that while the formats produced by the forwarding function of most mail packages are supported, replying will seldom work, so make sure to forward and not reply. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- // JOB CONFIRM BEE-L // EOJ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Apr 1997 06:46:45 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Guy Miller Subject: Re: Renewal of your subscription to the BEE-L list -Forwarded Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 09:44 AM 4/23/97 +1200, you wrote: >Received: from CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU by CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU (IBM VM SMTP V2R3) > with BSMTP id 9695; Tue, 22 Apr 97 06:00:18 EDT >Received: from CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU (NJE origin LISTSERV@ALBNYVM1) by CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU (LMail V1.2c/1.8c) with BSMTP id 9425; Tue, 22 Apr 1997 06:00:13 -0400 >X-LSV-ListID: BEE-L >Date: Tue, 22 Apr 1997 22:00:10 +1200 >From: "L-Soft list server at University at Albany (1.8c)" >Subject: Renewal of your subscription to the BEE-L list >Mime-Version: 1.0 >Content-Type: text/plain >Content-Disposition: inline > >Tue, 22 Apr 1997 06:00:09 > >Your subscription to the BEE-L list is due for renewal. If you wish >to >remain subscribed to BEE-L, please issue the following command >to >LISTSERV@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU at your earliest convenience: > > CONFIRM BEE-L > >You will be automatically removed from the list if you do not send >a >CONFIRM command within the next 14 days. > >PS: In order to facilitate the task, this message has been >specially >formatted so that you only need to forward it back >to >LISTSERV@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU to have the command executed. Note that >while >the formats produced by the forwarding function of most mail packages >are >supported, replying will seldom work, so make sure to forward and >not >reply. >------------------------------------------------------------------------- >// JOB >CONFIRM BEE-L >// EOJ > Guy F. Miller Charlottesville. VA ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Apr 1997 10:29:31 +1200 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Cliff Van Eaton Subject: Apologies re. Renewal of Subscription to BEE-L Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Apologies to all list members for my previous message. I followed the directions to make an "automatic" renewal of my subscription by forwarding the original message, but it looks like the Albany fileserver has distributed it to all members, rather than just making the renewal. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Apr 1997 19:59:25 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Frederick L. Hollen" Subject: Re: More Newbie questions on first hive In-Reply-To: <19970422.160751.3406.4.awneedham@juno.com>; from "Albert W Needham" at Apr 22, 97 4:10 pm According to Albert W Needham: > > On Tue, 22 Apr 1997 13:23:16 -0400 Ted Wout > writes: > >Marc Sevigny wrote: > > >>Lastly, what type of veil is preferred? Is there such a thing as > >veils with plexiglass over the eyes to help the viewing? > > >I've never seen a veil with a window like you described. Maybe you've > >got a good idea. > > Ted, that is a >great idea for some entrepreneur on this list > to create !< I also find veils a pain. Sometimes I'll start without one > and then when I hear the warning buzzes around my head - I have > to leave quickly & go get it. Perhaps the thing to do is have one about > the size that you see on Motorcyclists. One could also have a ring of > small [smaller than a bee that is :-) ] holes maybe four or five deep > around the outer edge of the field of vision for ventilation. > > Al. > > Al Needham--Scituate,MA,USA--awneedham@juno.com > Author Of "The HoneyBee"--An Educational Program > Check Out " The Amazing BeeCam " At: > http://www.xensei.com/users/alwine/ > Hi I once saw such a veil at a beekeepers' meeting. I had an opening surrounded by Velcro in front of the eyes, and a rectangle of plexiglas with the matching part of the Velcro around the edges. It had been made in in Quebec, Canada, by a company called, as I recall, "Les Gestions Voilec". It also had a vertical zipper in the netting below the chin which could be opened to allow the wearer to take a drink from a bottle or a straw without removing the entire veil. I have no idea how old it was -- someone had it there as sort of a curiosity -- but I thought at the time it was a wonderful idea. Does anyone else know anything about it ??? Regards Fred Augusta County, Virginia USA ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Apr 1997 19:11:16 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Carlson@netins.net" Organization: http://www.netins.net/showcase/goldenoak/gof.htm Subject: Bee types MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Since all of the newbie questions are appearing, I thought I would get my question in... I am due to recieve a shipment of All American bees soon. This sill be our first 2 hives... has anyone had experience with this line of bees.. are they going to be good to us as beginners? Roger & Wendy Carlson -- Visit us: at the Farm: "http://www.netins.net/showcase/goldenoak/gof.htm" at Aledo Time "http://www.netins.net/showcase/goldenoak/att.htm" ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Apr 1997 21:22:13 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "William A. Simmons" Subject: Re: Use of more than one mite control Roy: An interesting test would have been just the use of the essential oils. Perhaps it was the Apistan strips alone that killed the mites. I used several delivery methods of essential oils throughout March and the beginning of April here in Tennessee, no Apistan was used. While the clusters remained small, I detected a very low level of mites. But as the hives powered up, 2-3 mites per drone brood cell began to show up. Since I had two hives perish rapidly by mid-summer last year from Paracitic Mite Syndrome, I lost my nerve with the use of the oils and inserted some Apistan for a couple of weeks before the onset of the honey flow. Also there has been a report that hives fed mint oil in sugar syrup were reluctant to accept caged queens. Of the four that I tried to introduce caged queens, two rejected the new queen. I have never had a caged queen rejected before. I am all for an organic means to control mites, but the cure has to work year round (not just in the fall) and be conducive to total hive management (i.e. requeening) Sincerely, Bill (WillSimm42@aol.com) ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Apr 1997 21:53:50 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Frank & Phronsie Humphrey Subject: Fw: Renewal of your subscription to the BEE-L list MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ---------- > From: L-Soft list server at University at Albany (1.8c) > To: Frank Humphrey > Subject: Renewal of your subscription to the BEE-L list > Date: Tuesday, April 22, 1997 6:00 AM > > Tue, 22 Apr 1997 06:00:48 > > Your subscription to the BEE-L list is due for renewal. If you wish to > remain subscribed to BEE-L, please issue the following command to > LISTSERV@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU at your earliest convenience: > > CONFIRM BEE-L > > You will be automatically removed from the list if you do not send a > CONFIRM command within the next 14 days. > > PS: In order to facilitate the task, this message has been specially > formatted so that you only need to forward it back to > LISTSERV@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU to have the command executed. Note that while > the formats produced by the forwarding function of most mail packages are > supported, replying will seldom work, so make sure to forward and not > reply. > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > // JOB > CONFIRM BEE-L > // EOJ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Apr 1997 04:16:00 GMT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Andy Nachbaur Organization: WILD BEE'S BBS (209) 826-8107 LOS BANOS, CA Subject: Measuring Nutritional Status AD>From: Allen Dick >Date: Tue, 22 Apr 1997 14:43:55 -0600 >Subject: Measuring Nutritional Status >Organization: The Beekeepers AD>I have since often wondered how one goes about getting such an assay done, >and what the standard measurements are. I suppose food labs may well do >this type of work, but unless some previous work, is used to compare, the >measurements would be only relative. In testing protein used in bee diets an easy biological test is if the bees will rear drones as they do in most areas in the spring. It is nice to have all that chemical information, but you will find that what makes a difference is how the bees use the material you want to test. You can feed you bees pure whole blood and run the nitrogen tests off the scale, but you will end up with nothing. One way that I have done this is to take 20# of bees and a queen in a large cage, no flight. Or you can use hives during the winter when even if the bees would fly they would find no outside protein sources. And yes if the diet is good they will thrive and rear brood, and many drones and amaze all your beekeeping friends. Of course smaller bee test units would be used in most tests, each to his own.. Twenty pounds of bees in a single hive unit with nothing but empty combs does not look that crowded in the winter. Most would use smaller units and much less bees. The big question is and has always been at what COST? I have found that in commercial beekeeping the cost of labor soon overcomes most attempts to rear bees in the feed lot situation. * As a rule if it was true that bees require or consume 100# of honey per year to maintain themselves, then it would also require 100# of protein in addition to the honey... Here in central California an average field hive will consume 1# to 2# of protein extenders a week and rear normal brood, but if they run out all is set back to day one, so as they consume the protein in ever grater amounts it is necessary to tend them more often with more protein and of course they will also need syrup. ttul Andy- (c) Permission is granted to freely copy this document in any form, or to print for any use. (w)Opinions are not necessarily facts. Use at own risk. --- ~ QMPro 1.53 ~ "Not tonight honey..I have a modem." ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 23 Apr 1996 00:51:23 -0700 Reply-To: mac@lightstream.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Tom McCaffrey Subject: Re: Renewal of your subscription to the BEE-L list -Forwarded MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cliff Van Eaton wrote: > > Subject: Renewal of your subscription to the BEE-L list > Date: Tue, 22 Apr 1997 22:00:10 +1200 > From: "L-Soft list server at University at Albany (1.8c)" > > Tue, 22 Apr 1997 06:00:09 > > Your subscription to the BEE-L list is due for renewal. If you wish > to > remain subscribed to BEE-L, please issue the following command > to > LISTSERV@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU at your earliest convenience: > > CONFIRM BEE-L > > You will be automatically removed from the list if you do not send > a > CONFIRM command within the next 14 days. > > PS: In order to facilitate the task, this message has been > specially > formatted so that you only need to forward it back > to > LISTSERV@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU to have the command executed. Note that > while > the formats produced by the forwarding function of most mail packages > are > supported, replying will seldom work, so make sure to forward and > not > reply. > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > // JOB > CONFIRM BEE-L > // EOJ Confirm BEE LIST ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Apr 1997 23:53:55 -0600 Reply-To: allend@internode.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Allen Dick Organization: The Beekeepers Subject: Re: Measuring Nutritional Status In-Reply-To: <970422212115329@beenet.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Thanks for picking this up, Andy. > You can feed you bees pure whole blood and run the nitrogen tests off > the scale, but you will end up with nothing. Are you referring to nitrogen analysis in the bees or in the feed? I'm thinking that one would just assay a bee sample in the fall, say, to decide if a supplement is required. > Here in central California an average field hive will consume 1# to 2# > of protein extenders a week and rear normal brood, but if they run out > all is set back to day one, What exactly happens here? Is it that there is no protein for the emerging bees to eat, or just that brood rearing ceases? Is serious harm done if they run out of supplement? I notice mosts references say something like what you said here, but I need it spelled out for me :) > so as they consume the protein in ever grater amounts it is necessary to > tend them more often with more protein and of course they will also need > syrup. Hmmm. I guess I'd better get out there tomorrow. When can I quit giving them patties? Do I just put them on til the bees refuse to eat them (seems wasteful)? Or will they eat it from time to time right thru the spring if I leave it on? Allen ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Apr 1997 23:22:36 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Paul Cronshaw, D.C." Subject: Life during Swarm Season, Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hi, My bees are really working this season and have multiplied from 2 overwintered hives to10 hives thanks to swarm control I make my living as a chiropractor and take 2 hr lunch breaks to catch swarms. It appears that most swarms occur during the midday, just like clock work. To help in contacting me, I now have a pager with numbers at the police, fire, animal control and Ag Departments. A Pageer is very handy in getting to a swarm in quick time. For example, today I had 3 calls. One was to get a small fist size cluster of bees let over from an early beekeeper's attempt to remove a large swarm. Kids had been throwing stones at this cluster of leftovers and the neighbors didn't want anyone getting stung. The second event was a 911 call with bees in a house. I arrived at the scence to find the 2 officers had blocked off part of the street. YOu would have thought the SWAT team would be arriving at any moment. :) Apparently a neighbor had seen a large number of bees trying to move into a washer/dryer vent opening and called 911. I explained to the onlookers that this was not a swarm but these bees were probably a number of scouts deciding if this house was to be their permanent home. A vacuum cleaner cleaned up the bees that had gotten inside on the windows. I even had a chance to hold an informal beekeeping Q & A from the officers and onlookers as well as hand out a few cards to let them know that I was a chiropractor. I did not charge for this house call, considered it part of community service. The last call today was to Kenny Loggin's house to check out some bees in one of his oak trees. I think I'll try to see if he is interested in doing a song on bees. :) Hmmm.. wonder how my life will be once the AHB gets to Santa Barbara, CA??? Paul Cronshaw DC Cyberchiro and Swarm Control Santa Barbara, CA ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Apr 1997 19:23:24 +0100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "luichart.woollens@virgin.net" Organization: Luichart Woollens Subject: Re: polish Comments: To: mister-t@clinic.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I am interested in a recipe for waterproof shoe polish. It requires 4 oz beeswax, 4 oz resin, 1 pt linseed oil, 1/4 pt turpentine. Has anyone any ideas for obtaining the resin. Being a Scot I am unwilling to pay for this. Can you obtain the resin from pine trees and if so by what method? I have tried to cut the bark of Scots pines but I think I would be there till doomsday trying to get 4 ozs! Harry Scotland. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Apr 1997 22:52:41 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "MR WILLIAM L HUGHES JR." Subject: St. Ambrose Birthday? <> According to 1974 edition of "Lives of the Saints" Saint Ambrose was born in Gaul in the year 340. No day or month is mention. His feast day on the Catholic calendar is December 7th. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Apr 1997 06:08:40 -0300 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Stan Sandler Subject: Re: Measuring Nutritional Status Comments: To: allend@internode.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hi Allen and All: Did you ever find that consumption of your pollen substitute increased? I think that without real pollen mixed in the bees need something to help get them going. I find that a few drops of fennel oil works very well. I also usually find that if they are bringing in dry pollen substitute powder that they will accept the patties better. This year spring was so delayed that I had to feed the patties first. We have just had our first flying days now. I have a barrel of syrup out and pollen substitute powder beside it. There were more bees today in the powder than taking syrup. >When can I quit giving them patties? Do I just put them on til the bees >refuse to eat them (seems wasteful)? Or will they eat it from time to >time right thru the spring if I leave it on? I always find (and this year so far is no exception) that the weaker hives do not use the patties well. Sometimes I switch them to the stronger ones. Once natural pollen is available none of the hives will touch the patties, even if there is poor flying weather. This year the first pollen is going to be VERY late. There IS waste at the end, but I haven't figured out any use for it, and you might as well get it out of the hive because once the wax paper is chewed it goes like cement and is a nuisance to scrape. Despite the waste I am firmly convinced it is a great boost for them and seeing them prefer it to syrup today confirms this for me. I would only feed it dry if we could be more sure of flying weather but we don't seem to be getting much of that. The meat grinder made an excellent smooth paste and there has been nothing left at all on the stronger hives that are really going at their patties. Regards, Stan ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Apr 1997 20:36:05 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Albert W Needham Subject: Confirming BEE-L subscription To Cliff Van Eaton & Guy Miller: You sent your confirmation to renew BEE-L by mistake to the List rather than to: listserv@cnsibm.albany.edu You will need to resend your confirmation to the proper address as shown above. Al Al Needham--Scituate,MA,USA--awneedham@juno.com Author Of "The HoneyBee"--An Educational Program Check Out " The Amazing BeeCam " At: http://www.xensei.com/users/alwine/ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Apr 1997 06:45:06 +0100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Sid Pullinger Subject: HMF Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Walter Patton asks<<<<<<< Next can someone explain HMF in honey. Is it good or is it bad and how. Where does it come from and what causes it. Does its presence in Honey increase over time? Some help would be appreciated.>>>>>> HMF (HYDROXYMETHYLFURFURALDEHYDE - incidentally the longest word in the beekeeper's dictionary) is in itself neither good nor bad. It is a compound formed by the decomposition of fructose in the presence of acid. Most fresh honeys contain a negligible amount, around 10 ppm. Honey deteriorates with aging and/or heating and with this the HMF increases. Adulteration of honey with invert sugar raises the level of HMF considerably. Thus the quantity of HMF in a batch of honey is a good indicator of its quality. Many countries have agreed on a maximum of 40ppm as acceptable. Four quotes from The Hive and the Honey Bee. 1992 Edition. "three samples stored at 27degrees Centigrade for one year exceeded the 40ppm mark." "storage above 27C causes rapid deterioration." "honey should be stored at 10C or below" "honey kept at very low temperatures for years cannot be distinguished from fresh honey" More information can be found in the book mentioned above and in Dr. Crane's book Honey. Hope this helps. Sid P. _________________________________________________________________ Sid Pullinger Email : sidpul@Interalpha.co.uk or 36, Grange Rd Sidpul@compuserve.com Alresford Hants SO24 9HF England ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Apr 1997 08:43:11 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Harvey Hyde Organization: Government of Prince Edward Island Subject: TEMPERATURE MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Re: temperature (Gert-Paul Walter , 04/14/97 12:00) We're still waiting for a response on this one. Query to all: Can anyone describe what happens to individual bees in cool/cold temps. The bees cluster at 57 degrees, but they obviously fly at lower temps. Also the inside of the hive must be much warmer than outside at that temp range. As the temp goes down, do bees have less flying time. Are they "warmed by the cluster" and are they then able to fly for a short distance for cleansing flights etc. At what temp does their flying activity fail to keep them warm enough so they don't make it back to the hive? Gert Walter ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Apr 1997 09:12:11 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: David Green Subject: Re: Georgia Weather? In a message dated 97-04-22 14:05:41 EDT, ddc1@www.scranton.com (Dave from Scranton) writes: << Anyone know how the weather in the US state of Georgia these days? I'm waiting for some packages from York, in Jessup and wanted to know if there's a weather delay like last spring. Weather here hasn't been fun here, it's been cold and rainy or at night down to almost freezing. The dandalions are barely popping up. I'm not very happy with it. >> The weather in the southeast has been fantastic, with a very early, mild spring. We've had a couple late frosts, but only spotty, and they didn't seem to hurt. A good spring in the southeast is good news for the northeast, because so many package bees are being produced, and this may help replenish the supply. The bees are doing their best. The demand is intense; and the worst limitation in a good season is human strength. It's a very intense business, and good help is hard to find for such a seasonal job. Northern beekeepers who'd like a working vacation in the south might well enquire (early!) to see if they could spend the package season with a producer. They might find a willing employer. There are a few who do this already. Florida has had a poor season. The January freeze did a lot of damage to the orange groves, and subsequent weather has been very rainy and cold, by Florida standards. I don't know of any Florida package producers, but a lot of nucs come out of Florida. Pollinator@aol.com Dave Green, PO Box 1200, Hemingway, SC 29554 (Dave & Jan's Pollination Service, Pot o'Gold Honey Co.) Practical Pollination Home Page Dave & Janice Green http://users.aol.com/pollinator/polpage1.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Apr 1997 09:31:29 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Trevor Weatherhead Subject: Re: Body protein measurements Allen Dick asks for references on measuring body protein. There has been a lot of work done in Australia on the protein content of our various pollens. This has been funded by our Honeybee Research and Development Council. It has been the case that certain pollens that were thought to be alright have turned out to be deficient in certain amino acids. We have a general deficiency of iso-leucine in most of our eucalypt pollens. There have been several projects which look at the body protein in certain areas. There has been work done on looking at the body protein when certain pollens are coming in. The pollen was also checked. The reference used to measure body protein was:- McKenzie, H. and Wallace, H. (1954). The Kjeldahl determination of nitrogen. Aust. Jour. Chem. 7 : 55. Allen, if your librarian in Canada cannot get a copy, let me know and I will source a copy for you. Also, if you are interested in a copy of some of the trials, let me know and I photocopy one for you. When I was on the Honeybee Research and Development Council, we recognised that there needed to be a lot of work carried out on pollen protein determination. I believe it was worthwhile and has raised the awareness of beekeepers. Many are now supplementary feeding to overcome deficiencies in some of our pollens. Hope this helps. Trevor Weatherhead AUSTRALIA ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Apr 1997 07:44:47 -0600 Reply-To: allend@internode.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Allen Dick Organization: The Beekeepers Subject: Re: Measuring Nutritional Status In-Reply-To: <199704230908.GAA27814@bud.peinet.pe.ca> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT > Did you ever find that consumption of your pollen substitute increased? I > think that without real pollen mixed in the bees need something to help get > them going. I found that some that I made without pollen is still on the hives a month latrer and does not appear to be consumed much at all. The bees are now consuming the patties that include pollen as about 5% of the dry portion of the mix. I meant to mention that the day after I mentioned that the unwrapped bees had consumed more than the wrapped ones, I came across a yard that had consumed whole patties, and was still wrapped. > I find that a few drops of fennel oil works very well. Do you still need pollen in the mix, then? > I also usually find that if they are bringing in dry pollen substitute > powder that they will accept the patties better. Hmmm. We are now putting out the dry soy flour, and it is a real hit -- both with the bees and with the neighbours who were finding bees in their animal feed troughs. I don't know how to measure the effect of dry feeding on patty consumption - unless it is a huge change (Is it?), but it does seem logical. > This year spring was so delayed that I had to feed the patties first. > We have just had our first flying days now. I've been reluctant yto put out dry, since we have seen what appears to be pollen for weeks, now. But maybe it isn't since the bees are going nuts over the soy. > I have a barrel of syrup out and pollen substitute powder beside it. There > were more bees today in the powder than taking syrup. I noticed the exact same thing. It can be hard to train bees to take syrup from open feeders in spring. Some yards suck down several drums, and others hardly touch it. > >When can I quit giving them patties? Do I just put them on til the bees > >refuse to eat them (seems wasteful)? Or will they eat it from time to > >time right thru the spring if I leave it on? > > I always find (and this year so far is no exception) that the weaker hives > do not use the patties well. Sometimes I switch them to the stronger ones. It seems that the weak hives are much less inclined to eat it. I notticed many hives this year with eggs but no brood right up to two weeks ago. Pollen shortage? They did not seem to be eating the supplement either. > Once natural pollen is available none of the hives will touch the patties, > even if there is poor flying weather. This year the first pollen is going > to be VERY late. What about the fall? We have *some* pollen into October, even after frosts. I had hoped to try supplement in September. > There IS waste at the end, but I haven't figured out any use for it, and you > might as well get it out of the hive because once the wax paper is chewed it > goes like cement and is a nuisance to scrape. > > Despite the waste I am firmly convinced it is a great boost for them and > seeing them prefer it to syrup today confirms this for me. I would only > feed it dry if we could be more sure of flying weather but we don't seem to > be getting much of that. We place the soy in the bottom end of drums that are laid on their sides. This forms a wind and rain shelter. > The meat grinder made an excellent smooth paste and there has been nothing > left at all on the stronger hives that are really going at their patties. Yup. We used a cement mixer, and dissolved the pollen component first (Boy! There is a sure a lot of junk even in *clean* pollen - we used frozen pollen that we hand picked over, since we had such terrible chalkbrood last time we tried feed grade pollen). Thanks for the tips. Allen ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Apr 1997 07:58:44 -0600 Reply-To: allend@internode.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Allen Dick Organization: The Beekeepers Subject: Re: Body protein measurements In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT > There has been a lot of work done in Australia on the protein content of our > various pollens. This has been funded by our Honeybee Research and > Development Council. It has been the case that certain pollens that were > thought to be alright have turned out to be deficient in certain amino acids. > We have a general deficiency of iso-leucine in most of our eucalypt pollens. > > There have been several projects which look at the body protein in certain > areas. There has been work done on looking at the body protein when certain > pollens are coming in. The pollen was also checked. > > The reference used to measure body protein was:- > > McKenzie, H. and Wallace, H. (1954). The Kjeldahl determination of > nitrogen. Aust. Jour. Chem. 7 : 55. > > Allen, if your librarian in Canada cannot get a copy, let me know and I will > source a copy for you. Also, if you are interested in a copy of some of the > trials, let me know and I photocopy one for you. Thanks. I've never tried using the library to get such articles, and I've often wondered how people get copies of the research they need to evaluate a project. I' guess I've been vaguely aware that this is how it is done, but never tried before. I'll give it a try and see how it works. Thanks. > When I was on the Honeybee Research and Development Council, we recognised > that there needed to be a lot of work carried out on pollen protein > determination. I believe it was worthwhile and has raised the awareness of > beekeepers. Many are now supplementary feeding to overcome deficiencies in > some of our pollens. It's the supplementary feeding that I wonder about. I have played with it in the spring before, and concluded that the last tiem I tried it that it did more harm than good. But I think I started too early on that occasion. They built up somewhat, then dwindled, and I blamed it on the supplement. It could have just been a long winter. From my experience this year, I am realising that the dwindling is likely the result of the bulk of the population of the bees simply growing too old. It seems that a large number of bees last the entire winter, then, in the last month or so, simply die of old age, reducing the populations suddenly. We had a number of late splits look very fairly good a month ago, then suddenly totally depopulate, while stronger colonies in the same yard held up. What I wonder is how you manage to feed supplements - as you mention - and if you have problems with competition from natural pollen that results in wastage? Thanks for the tip. Allen ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Apr 1997 08:07:27 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Roy Nettlebeck Subject: Re: Use of more than one mite control In-Reply-To: <970422211929_-633555724@emout09.mail.aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Tue, 22 Apr 1997, William A. Simmons wrote: > Roy: An interesting test would have been just the use of the essential oils. > Perhaps it was the Apistan strips alone that killed the mites. I used > several delivery methods of essential oils throughout March and the beginning > of April here in Tennessee, no Apistan was used. While the clusters remained > small, I detected a very low level of mites. But as the hives powered up, > 2-3 mites per drone brood cell began to show up. Since I had two hives > perish rapidly by mid-summer last year from Paracitic Mite Syndrome, I lost > my nerve with the use of the oils and inserted some Apistan for a couple of > weeks before the onset of the honey flow. Also there has been a report that > hives fed mint oil in sugar syrup were reluctant to accept caged queens. Of > the four that I tried to introduce caged queens, two rejected the new queen. > I have never had a caged queen rejected before. I am all for an organic > means to control mites, but the cure has to work year round (not just in the > fall) and be conducive to total hive management (i.e. requeening) Sincerely, > Bill (WillSimm42@aol.com) > Hi Bill, You have a strong point in have a working management system working year around. What has been found so far, is that some mite controls do not work the year around.Dr. Sammataro did work with grease pattys and it was published in the ABJ within the last 6 months. The findings were not cosistant through out the year. I feel that the variance in the enviornment works for or against some organic controls. It would have to because nature is in an ever changing mode. Mint is cut 3 times for oil production. Every cutting is different, so the people that process the mint need to adjust to the change that nature has made. The use of Apistan is different. It is not plugging up the pores the mites breath through , like oil. Max at Sandoz could give us a little over view of what apistan really affects on the mite. It must be toxic to the mite. In regards to queens being rejected. I could see that happening if she is out of balance with the smell of the hive. I always use Vanilla extract in sugar suryp and give the bees a spray and the queen cage. So far no problems. By the way , all queens are not equal. Some carry more queen sent with them than others. That is a complete new story all by it self.There are many views to the queen problem. Its like a soup sandwhich and very complex. Some feel that the viruses have a play in the problem also. Some feel that the gene pool is getting too small for the breeders to do the best job that they can in breeding. I was in the gene group , but now I think it is a little of both.I would like to see some work to find out the truth.Dr. Richard Fineman gave a lecture, that he stated that science starts with an idea or guess and he was heavy on the guess part. Then it is proven by expieriment.Richard Fineman has been concidered to be second to Einstein in theorectical physics. We need more controlled expieriments on the affects of oils in the hive.This can get deep , do to the turpins in the wood. Jerry Bromenshank at the U of Montana has THE breakthru in expeiriments with hives. His electronic hives will give us data that we could not collect before. He gave us a quantum leap foreword. By applying different compounds in the hive , we can monitor what changes the bees have in there behavior. Number of flights and the chemistry of the hive. We do have people all around the world working on different parts of bee behavior and responce to chemicals.Every one of them is a part of are over all improoving understanding of Honey Bees. I would like to thank all of them for there work. Each one has a piece of the soulution. The more pieces we have the better the picture. In my talk lat week to a Kiwanis Club , I told them that the more I learned about the Honey Bee , the smaller I seemed to get in relationship to the bee. One thing for shure, we will never have all the answers , but we should learn as much as we can. Best Regards Roy ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Apr 1997 11:27:21 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Roger Hoopingarner Subject: Apiculture Symposium Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable International Symposium Apiculture For The 21st Century June 27-28, 1997 Michigan State University Kellogg Center East Lansing, Michigan Sponsor Department of Entomology In Recognition of the Retirement of=20 Dr. Roger Hoopingarner Friday June 27, 1997 Morning Program Kellogg Center Auditorium=20 Genetics of Honey Bees =20 Keynote: Robert Page, Jr., Univ. Calif., Davis, CA =93Genetic, Developmental, and Environmental Determinants of Honey Bee Foraging Behavior=94 John Harbo, USDA, Baton Rouge, LA =93 Instrumental Insemination and Sperm Preservation Technology=94 Greg Hunt, Purdue University, W. Layfayette, IN =93Genomic Mapping of Bee Defensive Behavior=94 Brian Smith, Ohio State Univ. Columbus, OH =93Genetic Analysis of Olfactory Learning=94 Ernesto Guzman, Edo. de Mexico, Santa Cruz =93Breeding Honey Bees in Africanized Areas=94 Response & Discussion Session Luncheon Friday, June 27, 1997 Afternoon Program Kellogg Center Auditorium Behavior & Pheromones of Honey Bees =09 Keynote: Fred Dyer, Michigan State, E. Lansing =93The Dance Language: Recent Insights and Future Problems=94 Jennifer Fewell, Arizona State University, Tempe "Foraging Task Organization in Honey Bees" Kirk Visscher, University of California, Riverside =93House-Hunting by Honey Bee Swarms: =20 Individual Behaviors and Collective Decisions=94 Scott Camazine, Pennsylvania State University University Park =93Self-organization in Honey Bee Societies: Patterns and Processes.=94 Response & Discussion Session =20 Visit to MSU Horticulture Gardens Evening=20 Poster Session for Submitted papers =20 =20 Saturday, June 28, 1997 Morning Program Kellogg Center Auditorium Dynamics of Honey Bee Populations =09 Keynote: O. R. Taylor Jr., Univ. Kansas, Lawrence "Consequences of 40 years of Hybridization Between European and Invading African Bee Populations in the Neotropics." Gerald Loper, USDA, Tucson, AZ "Impact of Mites on, and the Introgression of African-ized Bees into a Feral Population of Honey Bees." Glenn Hall, University of Florida, Gainesville, FL "Genetic (DNA) and Physiological Studies of African and European Honey Bee Hybridization" Debra Smith, University of Kansas, Lawrence, KS=20 =93Phylogeny and Races of Honey Bees=94 Gard Otis, University of Guelph, Guelph, Canada =93Insights into Honey Bee Biology from Apis nigrocincta of Indonesia.=94 Response & Discussion Session Saturday, June 28, 1997 Afternoon Program Kellogg Center Auditorium Parasitic Mites of Honey Bees =09 Keynote: Nikolaus Koeniger, Inst. Bienenkunde Oberursel, Germany =93Biology of Asian Bee Mites and Their Honey Bee Hosts.=94 Norberto Milani, Istituto di Difesa delle Piante, Universit=E0 degli Studi, Udine, Italy =93Current Status and Problems in Chemotherapy of Varroatosis=94 Diana Sammataro, Ohio State University, Wooster =93Tracheal Mites=94 David De Jong, University of Sao Palo, Brazil =93Varroa and Acarapis in South America=94 Marla Spivak, University of Minnesota, St. Paul =93Biological Tolerance Against Mites in Apis mellifera: =09 A Perspective for the Beekeeping Industry" Response & Discussion Session Banquet - Evening The Kellogg Center is located on the Michigan State University campus. There are rooms, res-taurants, and conference facilities. For reserva-tions the phone is 1-800-875-5090. Cost of rooms is $69/night; single or double. Students and others wishing an air-conditioned dormitory room (community baths) at a cost of $25/single; $35/double. Indicate this preference to the Dept. of Entomology. Meal tickets are available for cafeteria meals. The Symposium Conference Fees are as follows: Conference with proceedings $60 Luncheon $13 Banquet $20 To register, make checks payable to=20 Michigan State University, and send to: Linda Gallagher Department of Entomology 243 Natural Science Michigan State University East Lansing, MI 48824-1115 Additional Information: Roger Hoopingarner; same address as above. Phone, 517-699-2428 e-mail hoopinga@msue.msu.edu =09 =20 Roger Hoopingarner Department of Entomology Michigan State University East Lansing, MI 48824-1115 517-353-8136 Fax-353-4354 hoopinga@msue.msu.edu ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Apr 1997 12:08:16 -0500 Reply-To: beeworks@muskoka.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: David Eyre Organization: The Beeworks Subject: (Fwd) Re: item request MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT I received the following off the Web. Can anyone help in her area? Thanks for the response to my beeswax request - How about 10 or 20 pounds? If you could do that, about how much would this be? Thanks again! 48846 North Paulina St. Chicago, IL 60640-4146 Dana Garner School of the Art Institute of Chicago dgarner@artic.edu 112 S. Michigan Avenue Faculty in Painting and Drawing Chicago, IL 60603 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Apr 1997 12:12:41 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ted Wout Subject: Re: Bee types Roger & Wendy Carlson wrote: >Since all of the newbie questions are appearing, I thought I would get my question in... I am due to recieve a >shipment of All American bees soon. This sill be our first 2 hives... has anyone had experience with this line >of bees. are they going to be good to us as beginners? If these are Weaver All American bees from Navasota, TX you're getting some real good bees. The most beneficial thing you're getting in my opinion is a superb queen. The Weavers have a reputation for producing superior queens and including them in their packages according to two old timers that I know. Since the queen will be the mother of your hive, you want one of the best. I think you may have one of the best. Good luck with your bees! They should be gentle and prolific. Ted Wout Red Oak, TX ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Apr 1997 15:58:50 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Frank Dalton Subject: Re: Confirming BEE-L subscription MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit SORRY BEES AND COMPUTERS ARE STILL A MYSTERY TO ME. FRANK ---------- > From: Albert W Needham > To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU > Subject: Confirming BEE-L subscription > Date: Tuesday, April 22, 1997 8:36 PM > > To Cliff Van Eaton & Guy Miller: > > You sent your confirmation to renew BEE-L by mistake > to the List rather than to: > > listserv@cnsibm.albany.edu > > You will need to resend your confirmation to the proper > address as shown above. > > Al > > Al Needham--Scituate,MA,USA--awneedham@juno.com > Author Of "The HoneyBee"--An Educational Program > Check Out " The Amazing BeeCam " At: > http://www.xensei.com/users/alwine/ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 08:27:38 +1100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Nick Wallingford Subject: Harry Whitcombe... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT I recently wrote to the list for details about the book "Bees Are My Business" on behalf of a friend. I was able to obtain the book from the NZ Beekeepers' Technical Library once I had the proper title and author, and borrowed it for my friend. He was amazed to get the chance to re-read a book that was very motivational to him more than 40 years ago. He would like to get any more information about Harry J. Whitcombe, the author of the book, that members on this list might have. I passed on one story that was posted to the list about visiting Harry Whitcombe - any other Californian beekeepers who knew (know?) the man or have stories about him or his business? (\ Nick Wallingford {|||8- home nickw@wave.co.nz (/ work nw1@boppoly.ac.nz NZ Beekeeping http://www.wave.co.nz/pages/nickw/nzbkpg.htm ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Apr 1997 17:10:53 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: John Justin Spaulding III Subject: Honey straws In-Reply-To: <970421231614_707875403@emout03.mail.aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Anyone have recc. on reliquifying Honey Straws. I haave a couple 100 and they are starting to crystalize. I figured if I heated them they would burst. Thanks for your help. John Spaulding juggler@nesc.org ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Apr 1997 21:08:22 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Steve R Subject: Visiting Valcartier Quebec MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi all I will be traveling to Valcartier for the week of 26 Apr to 5 May. If anyone in that area wouldn't having a novice pop in to see/talk about bees. Drop me a line please. Steve Reddick sunrise@barint.on.ca ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Apr 1997 21:45:42 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: adony melathopoulos Subject: Re: bee temperature and flight (reply) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Gert : Since no one else has tried to answer this question i'll try (caution, some of what I write might be bullshit). At 08:43 AM 4/23/97 -0700, you wrote: >We're still waiting for a response on this one. > >Query to all: Can anyone describe what happens to individual bees in >cool/cold temps. There is a review of honey bee thermoregulation in Bernd Heinrich's 'Insect Thermoregulation' (Heinrich of 'Bumble Bee Economics' fame. Somewhere in his review I think he said something like this : honey bees can generate heat by 'uncoupling' their wings and shivering. As I remember it, when ambient temperature falls below -5 celsius clusters reach their maximum density and the bees actively generate heat by shivering (and no bee gets colder than 8 celsius for very long - apparently a lethal temperature for honey bees). So the cluster remains warmer than ambient at sub-zero celsius temperatures. >The bees cluster at 57 degrees, but they obviously fly >at lower temps. Also the inside of the hive must be much warmer than >outside at that temp range. As the temp goes down, do bees have less >flying time. Are they "warmed by the cluster" and are they then able to >fly for a short distance for cleansing flights etc. At what temp does >their flying activity fail to keep them warm enough so they don't make >it back to the hive? Gert Walter I think so, to a point. When it's too cold I guess even the heat generated by beating wings is lost so quickly that the bee's muscle temperature falls below some minimum needed to beat, and the worker plummets into the snow bank. There must be a minimum muscle temperature that must be maintained by the flight muscles to keep a bee in flight. I would guess its somewhere around 25 C. Probably the flight temperature limit of bees is around 12 C ambient because this is the lowest temperature at which despite heat losses they are able to keep their flight muscles above this critical flight muscle temperature (25 C - a guess). If all this is correct, bees should be able to take short flights below 12 C provided the cluster is warm enough to bring them up to flight temperature. They must return before they loose all their heat and sieze up when flying below these temperatures. A half-baked, poorly expressed idea... and my dinner has gotten cold after all that thinking and typing. Cheers Adony *********************************** ** Adony P. Melathopoulos ********* *** Center for Pest Management **** **** Simon Fraser University ****** ***** Burnaby, British Columbia *** ****** Canada, V5A-1S6 ************ *********************************** Tel : (604) 291-4163 Fax : (604) 291-3496 e-mail : melathop@sfu.ca "The pursuit of agriculture promotes the strength of the mind as well as the body" - Rev. John L. Blake, 1853 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 01:05:53 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Alden P. Marshall" Subject: Re: Queen Eating Honey On Sun, 20 Apr 1997 07:10:21 -0500 "Excerpts from BEE-L" writes: >Reply-to: Discussion of Bee Biology >From: Robert Barnett > >high protein content, from which she builds a thousand(s) eggs each >day. >Thus, while it *appears* that she is being exclusively fed, I am >certain >that she feeds herself honey at least part of the time! > >I shall be interested to know others have made such observations on >this. > >Thanks for a timely observation, Brian. > >Bob Barnett, Birmingham, Ala > It is not clear to me why the majority of literature is not more clear on this subject. I believe your observations and conclusions to be correct. Anyone who even watches a caged queen with candy can see the queen eats it. She will even take a drink of water dispersed on the screen enclosure. Alden Marshall B-Line Apiaries Hudson, NH 03051 Busybee9@Juno.com tel. 603-883-6764 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 02:20:00 -0600 Reply-To: allend@internode.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Allen Dick Organization: The Beekeepers Subject: Re: Measuring Nutritional Status In-Reply-To: <13460253102521@internode.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT > > Once natural pollen is available none of the hives will touch the patties, > > even if there is poor flying weather. I notice that there is crocus pollen coming into our hives (I see the crocusses nearby). At the same time, I am pretty sure that I see bees actively eating the supplement patties on the top bars. I had assumed that the cut-off of supplement consumption with incoming pollen would be pretty clear cut. Is this the case? Or does it take a heavy pollen flow to cut off interest? How long must the bees be without an external pollen source before they resume eating the patties? This is of particular concern to me because I would like to be able to predict to some extent pollen patty consumption in the fall if I decide to try it. Allen ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Apr 1997 08:47:18 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Judy Spradley Subject: Looking for Houston, TX beekeepers Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" My family will be vacationing in Houston, TX in July. Are there any beekeepers on the list that live in that area that I could visit? Judy, A Displaced Texan in PA IRON ACRES: Where the water is red & the grass is green! ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 09:43:59 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Mark Johnson Subject: Collecting Pollen with Apistan on MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I have recently put Apistan on all my hives to kill the Varroa mites but would also like to start collecting pollen as this is one of the pollen season for us here in Minnesota. With the Varroa dying and dropping to the bottom board would this pose a danger to the pollen that is collected? Thanks, Mark Johnson Janesville, MN USA ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 10:40:43 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Aaron Wolfenbarger Subject: H*LP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! H*lp!!!!!!!! I just came in from checking the hive and there is a LOT of bad news. There is no queen no brood and no swarm cells.All cells that have anything in them have nectar,pollen or drones.(all of which is very few.) I need some help BAD!!!!!!! I don't know what to do. Please reply fast!!!! /) Aaron -8III} \) ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 11:01:41 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Albert W Needham Subject: Re: Gary Ford Fund On Mon, 21 Apr 1997 23:13:36 -0400 David Green writes: > Gary and I want to thank each of you who helped to encourage Gary >by your generous gifts. About 235 dollars was received and some bees and >brood were also given, so he has gotten close to $400 in aid. Raise the $235.00 by $50.00 voted by the Plymouth County Beekeepers Association, Massachusetts, USA....voted at last month's Association Meeting, but only being mailed today. From a private message, I believe that one other club was considering a donation. Frankly, while I am certain that Gary is very appreciative of help received from total strangers, I must say that I am dissapointed in the level of support from some 700 BEE-Ler's. It made no difference to me that this young man is from the United States. It certainly came nowhere near the 50% participation figure (cited as a typical figure by David Eyre in Canada). Remember Gary started with $20,000 of stuff borrowed from someone else. So, he surely isn't "making any $$" on this deal...as some of you I know had felt. Not to pat myself on the back, but one other member and myself made an additional donation...$5.00 from me and I do not know the amount from the other party. Another member is also now mailing a private donation. So all you 'miserables' (to quote David Eyre's earlier message)...think about how you would feel if you had been in Gary's Bee Suit... :-) ! Well, there...I have said what "I feel" ! Al, Al Needham--Scituate,MA,USA--awneedham@juno.com Author Of "The HoneyBee"--An Educational Program Check Out " The Amazing BeeCam " At: http://www.xensei.com/users/alwine/ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 11:25:06 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Albert W Needham Subject: Gary Ford On Mon, 21 Apr 1997 23:13:36 -0400 David Green writes: > Gary and I want to thank each of you who helped to encourage Gary >by your generous gifts. About 235 dollars was received and some bees and >brood were also given, so he has gotten close to $400 in aid. Addendum to my prior comments: I might 'add' that I think that the $5.00 I personally contributed is a pretty 'cheap price' for all the 'free' advice and education on beekeeping that I have received from fellow BEE-Ler's over the year or more that I have been subscribing. So..it's not a total 'gift' on my part. Al Al Needham--Scituate,MA,USA--awneedham@juno.com Author Of "The HoneyBee"--An Educational Program Check Out " The Amazing BeeCam " At: http://www.xensei.com/users/alwine/ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 12:41:27 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: John A Skinner Subject: Re: Bumblebee Economics In-Reply-To: <01BC4B47.88B11880@Station1.BBIC> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Dave, I can recommend Bumblebee Economics by Bernd Heinrich as a good book about bumble bees that really gives you good information about bumble bee natural history, thermoregulation capabilities and in an entertaining way puts the material in terms of economics. It is a good for general info or for those that want to understand the physiology of thermoregulation in as much depth as you could ask for on a scientific level. grins, John John A. Skinner 218 Ellington Hall Extension Apiculturist University of Tennessee jskinner@utk.edu Knoxville, TN 37901 (423)974-7138 On Thu, 17 Apr 1997, David Hinz wrote: > A title by the name of Bumblebee Economics was suggested to me the other day. Can anyone recommend it? What other titles with these themes are in the public press? > > DaveE.Hinz > Seattle, WA > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 09:27:07 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Kerry Clark of AGF 784-2225 fax (604) 784 2299" Subject: Re bee temperature and flight MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Adony Melathopolous assumed a bee flight muscle temperature lower threshold of 25 C, and predicted a sustained flight temperature threshold of 12 C, with flights below that temperature, dependant on heat retained from a visit to the cluster. The reasoning is fine, but since in this area we have a lot of days when the temperature never gets to 12 (most of our spring build up), yet there is a lot of sustained bee flight, some of the thresholds must be different from those Adony used. Perhaps we'll get some actual measurements from someone, but I could add a few impressions or observations: - at -10 C bees that fly out from an exposed cluster will shut down and drop out of the sky after 5 or 10 seconds (my impression, not timed) - when hives are opened to feed bees in the fall at 0 C, bees will fly from the cluster quite actively and keep it up for minutes (perhaps they're creating heat as fast as they're loosing it). If they land on a bee suit they will cluster, and when brushed off they might fly. I've seen bumblebees foraging at less than 5 C (though they might experience warmer temperatures in the sun, especially in those blossoms that track the sun and provide a parabolic solar heated platform) - hives put out in "spring" (2 weeks ago here) at 5 C can have lots of flight, apparently sustained although a lot of bees end up on the snow. However, a bright sun on a still day might add quite a bit of heat to a dark bee. SEASONAL CONDITIONS: Dawson Creek 55 deg N Lat April 24 Well, I've bit my tongue and held back any response to the reports of honeyflows and swarms from S Carolina, but I guess it's time to report that winter is over here. We had an impressive blizzard April 2, lots of drifting snow, but the daylight hours are too long to allow it to stay. About April 15, the temperature stayed above freezing through the night, for the first time since about October 20 (nearly 6 months). Flat open ground became snow free over the past 10 days, south facing slopes have a few blades of green poking through the dusty beige dried grass. Shaded spots still have piles of icey snow. Pussy willows are out and I've heard of some pollen being spotted, I guess from a particularly sunny spot. At the base of a southern wall, I even saw a dandelion blossom open! This isn't a complaint (well maybe it is, but I know that won't help). The remarkable thing is that the honey bee colonies that look so pitiful now, will recover and build up to the point that 150 lb of honey can be harvested from them. Busy days ahead Kerry Clark, Apiculture Specialist B.C. Ministry of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food 1201 103 Ave Dawson Creek B.C. V1G 4J2 CANADA Tel (250) 784-2231 fax (250) 784-2299 INTERNET kclark@galaxy.gov.bc.ca ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 12:53:39 +0000 Reply-To: barry@birkey.com Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Barry Birkey Organization: Birkey.com Subject: Re: Gary Ford MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Albert W Needham wrote: > > On Mon, 21 Apr 1997 23:13:36 -0400 David Green > writes: > > Gary and I want to thank each of you who helped to encourage Gary > >by your generous gifts. About 235 dollars was received and some bees > and > >brood were also given, so he has gotten close to $400 in aid. > > Addendum to my prior comments: > > I might 'add' that I think that the $5.00 I personally > contributed is a pretty 'cheap price' for all the 'free' > advice and education on beekeeping that I have > received from fellow BEE-Ler's over the year or > more that I have been subscribing. So..it's not a > total 'gift' on my part. Al - You make some good points. I think the reality though is in part due to the fact that this is all being done through the medium of the internet. A great tool for communication but it also has the negative side, "safety". People still don't consider the internet to be safe in regards to exchanging money. Granted, one is not giving out credit card numbers and so forth but I think people immediately get suspicious when they are asked to give money. This is something that will change in time as the internet becomes a standard place for doing business. If this story appeared in a newspaper or on the radio, I would bet (hope) the outcome would be different. It seems to me to be a very small effort for one to give $5 towards this cause as you mention. I hope we continue to get updates of Gary's situation and hopefully more will feel led to help out as they can. It would only cost me less than a quart of honey sold to have $5 to give. -Barry -- Barry Birkey West Chicago, Illinois USA barry@birkey.com http://www.birkey.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 14:36:28 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: PondSite Subject: Re: Bee Tree Epilogue MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ted, I just read your tree story and it was a good one. I was going to file it away when I happen to notice a house removal in progress. I have plans to attempt this removal for the first time this week-end. I am going to try the funnel method with a deep super nest to the hole. Will the bees coming out of the funnel go to the hive if I put some drawn comb in it. Must I also have to put bees and a queen in it. Can it bee accomplished without a Queen? WALT tnx for any help that you can give. ---------- > From: Ted Wout > To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU > Subject: Bee Tree Epilogue > Date: Monday, April 21, 1997 11:28 PM > > Hello All, > > Well, we felled the bee tree in Lancaster, TX last Saturday and had a great > and educational time. First of all we had a gallery that Tiger Woods would > be envious of. Every neighbor that passed by was interested in our > adventure and I think we pulled off some great beekeeping public relations. > We only had one bee sting and that was surprising to me considering how > close people were to the epicenter of activity. Folks were coming right up > and looking into the tree to see the combs and everything! Even passers-by > were slowing down and rubber-necking or stopping to take a look. It was > wonderful. > > First of all I have to thank Dave Green for giving us the advice to cut the > tree down and set it horizontal with the hole pointed up. We put the hive > body on top just like he recommended and have yet to see if the queen moves > up. Anyway, that saved us a bunch of time and much work that would have > probably left more people nursing stings. > > In short, we basically fell the tree. It was an old sycamore and hollow > from the base to about 2/3 of its height. I'd say it stood somewhere > between 20' and 25' tall. The bees seemed dazed and weren't all that > violent. People were standing around them talking and watching. Bees > landed on a few people but there were no stinging incidents at the tree > felling site. The owner of the house did the felling wearing a bee suit > that we loaned him. Once the tree was down he started cutting where we > thought the comb stopped at the bottom of the tree. Another neighbor went > and got his chainsaw and started cutting where we thought the hives upper > extent was. He wasn't wearing anything resembling protective gear and > didn't get stung. It seemed his chainsaw kind of lulled the bees. > > That neighbors wife, the member of this list who started this whole > adventure (I'm not using her name in case she wants to maitain some > anonymity, she can write a perspective on the event if she wants), > took pictures of the whole event. The homeowner's pet chicken joined the > party and started eating the bugs and worms that had previously lived in > the tree. Through all of this we managed to seal up the hollow section > that contained the bees. We stuck it in the back of a pickup truck and > hauled it to my backyard about 7 miles away. We unloaded it and set the > log where I wanted it. I had previously made a bottom board from plywood > and some wood scraps to hold a hive body on the limb hole that the bees had > used as an entrance. We mounted and sealed around that board, set a hive > body with foundation, some drawn comb and honey on it and put a lid on it. > The single stinging incident happened in my back yard. We had a convoy > come down to my back yard and I guess we let folks get a little too close. > > Now we're waiting for the queen to get tired of that sideways comb and move > up into the hive body. There's some drawn comb just above the opening in > the log for her. After that we'll put an excluder under her and encourage > the rest of the bees to move up with her. Once that's done, we'll remove > the log from below the hive, set the hive on stacked concrete blocks to > keep it at the same approximate height, and split the log. I'll let these > bees rob it out and render their comb. I want to hinge the split log, put > some sort of roof on it and use it as a swarm catcher. I plan to split > these bees eventually to get some more of this queen's progeny. I don't > plan to treat for Varroa because I want to see if they have some natural > defense against it. If they do I guess I'll need an experts help at > raising queens. Keep your fingers crossed. > > Thanks to everyone on the list who offered advice or comments. The help is > really appreciated. This was a wonderful experience that originated right > here on this list when someone who lives seven miles away from me broadcast > to the world via Bee Line that she wanted to save some bees in a tree > before the homeowner exterminated them. After this experience, that > homeowner wants me to return these bees to his yard in a manageable hive > and teach him to keep bees! > > Ted Wout, 3rd year, 10 hives, 1 house removal in progress, and 1 bee tree. > (I love this hobby!) > Red Oak, TX ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Apr 1997 22:20:23 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jean-Francois Lariviere Subject: FIRST TIME IN USA -- Summer Course on Products from the Beehive News Release - URGENT: DATED MATERIAL +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ HOLISTIC HEALING WITH HONEYBEES -- First Ever Apitherapy Knowledge Review Course -- For the first time in the United States, a four -day, in-depth course on the healing properties of the beehive (also known as Apitherapy). Developed by the American Apitherapy Society (AAS), this unique 40 hour course is based on extensive clinical experience and the massive database of libraries belonging to the AAS. A group of selected experts, from Physicians to lay practitioners, alternative health specialists and beekeepers will gather in Millerton, Pennsylvania from July 2nd through July 5th, 1997 on the Draper Apiary Farm. Designed to give comprehensive understanding of Apitherapy, the course will cover clinical applications of all hive products, including Bee Venom, Royal Jelly, Bee Pollen and Propolis. With demonstrations, practice periods, workshops, lectures and a visit to a beeyard, this four-day course includes an instruction book, lunch every day, dinner on the first three days and a Certificate of Completion for only $325. The course is open to anyone interested in Holistic Health, including Chiropractors, Naturopaths, Holistic Physicians, Practitioners of Chinese Medicine, Herbalist, Natural Health Practitioners. For More Information, contact: Louise Estupinian, Course Coordinator Phone: 415-454-0692 Fax: 415-927-1128 E-mail: 102450.3252@compuserve.com www.beesting.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 15:41:54 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ted Wout Subject: H*LP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Aaron, I'm sorry to hear about your beehive's plight but I need more input to help. 1. Do you have only one hive? 2. Where are you located? You need either a queen bee from another beekeeper or supplier or a frame of brood that is less than 72 hours old. If you can borrow a frame from another beekeeper, just put it in your hive. The bees will raise a new queen from this. Write back, I'd love to help. Ted Wout Red Oak, TX ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 16:21:46 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ted Wout Subject: Re: Bee Removal PondSite "Walt" wrote: >Ted, I just read your tree story and it was a good one. I was going to file it away when I happen to notice a >house removal in progress. I have plans to attempt this removal for the first time this week-end. I am going >to try the funnel method with a deep super nest to the hole. Will the bees coming out of the funnel go to the >hive if I put some drawn comb in it. Must I also have to put bees and a queen in it. Can it bee accomplished >without a Queen? WALT tnx for any help that you can give. I am swiftly learning that this is not an easy undertaking. It takes patience and tenacity. You will need a hive with at least a queen cell to attract the estranged workers from the hive being removed. My queen cells all didn't make it so I ended up putting a queen in the hive and things got better. Without a queen in the "bait" hive, you will not attract the foragers from the house into the "bait" hive. They'll just group around your screen cone. My screen cone is only about a foot long and the opening at the tapered end is about 3/4" in diameter. Some have told me that it must be 3/8" but mine seems to work fine. Take along a caulk gun. You'll need it to plug up all the other ways the bees will find back into the house. Even after you've plugged up every alternate entrance you can find, the bees may find a way back in. I found bees squeezing between the screen cone and the house. They would start pushing their heads into a crevice and push with their little legs like mad. Then they'd get their head in and have to go through another round of pushing to get the next segment of their body in, then a third round of pushing to get the third segment through. It was real cute. Meanwhile all the other returning foragers would cue up in line for their turn to push through. I'd recommend training the homeowner or someone there to watch everyday to see if the bees are getting back in. I had to stop by my bee removal effort every other day to check. If it were way out of the way that could get real inconvenient. Preventing the bees from entering their hive is really fighting their instinct. You'd better be prepared for a battle as most oldtimer beekeepers will tell you about fighting the bees instinct. While the bait hive had viable queen cells the foragers eventually ended up in my bait hive. When it was apparent that the queen cells weren't viable they had no motivation to enter my bait hive. Once I put that queen in, they didn't wait long at all to give up on the house and join the bait hive. So I recommend using a queen. Keep in mind that it takes about 21 days for workers to gestate. Then they normally work in the hive for about 19 days. So it takes about 40 days for the worker eggs layed the day you put up your screen cone to become foragers. That's about 6 weeks! Meanwhile the queen in the house is laying more eggs. As you attrit the hive in the house this time will get shorter. The hive in the house will lose its foragers and housekeepers will have to pick up the slak. I've noticed that the foragers leaving the house seem to be smaller as we've gotten further along in this effort. Do bees get larger when they take on foraging duties? Do they continue to grow after they've left their brood cell? When all is said and done, it's probably cheaper and less time consuming to just hive a swarm or purchase package bees. I'm doing this be removal for two reasons. I want the experience and the homeowner is a friend who wants rid of the bees. Several on the list have warned me that bee removal from a house is a real pain. I agree, but I love bees and beekeeping too much to let a little inconvenience and time consumption stop me. Besides, it's spring and I have bee fever! It doesn't have to make sense. Ted Wout Red Oak, TX ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 17:36:06 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Sally Graves Subject: Bee Removal Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I read Ted Wout's account of bee removal from a house with interest since just last night a neighbor told me a similar story. Many years ago his father had honey bees take up residency in the wall of his home. One day he happened across a beekeeper & told him about the bees in his wall. The beekeeper extracted them the same way Ted did. He set a hive body with queen inside on the ground outside of the house. He put cones on the side of the house wherever he saw bees entering. The opening of the cone was about half the size of the little finger. When everyone was out of the house & accepted their new queen he took the cones off the house. The bees went back into the house & killed the old queen & removed their old store of honey to take back to the hive body. Evidently the old beekeeper said if they were not allowed to remove the honey it would have run down the wall & into the wall paper etc. making a terrible mess. This event took about 3-4 weeks total & all came out well. Just neat ole' stories passed along. Sally Graves Fennville MI ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Apr 1997 00:16:00 +0200 Reply-To: jtemp@xs4all.nl Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jan Tempelman Organization: Home Subject: holLand and shame MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-2 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit it is a shame but help is needed http://www2.seashepherd.org/orgs/sscs/wh/no/pwhelp.html -- -------------------------------------------------------- Jan Tempelman / Ineke Drabbe | EMAIL:jtemp@xs4all.nl Sterremos 16 3069 AS Rotterdam, The Netherlands Tel/Fax (SOMETIMES) XX 31 (0)10-4569412 homepage webside: http://www.xs4all.nl/~jtemp/index2.html webside van het AmbrosiusGilde: http://www.xs4all.nl/~jtemp/ambro_index.html webside for NECTAR: http://www.xs4all.nl/~jtemp/nectar_index.html with some pages in english on solitary bees -------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 19:22:03 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Steve Genta Subject: Re: 'H' Bees Greetings. I too remember the "H" bees from my youth. My grandfather raised honeybees in Southern California. He had eight hives in his backyard. I was probably about 8 or 9 years old and he would give us some to play with. I don't remember what their honey production was like, but I also would be interested to hear from anyone with information about these interesting bees. Steve Genta POLLENDOLL@ aol.com or gentast@psgvl.ps.ge.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 20:22:37 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Pam Mather Subject: FW: Renewal of your subscription to the BEE-L list -Forwarded MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ---------- From: Tom McCaffrey[SMTP:mac@lightstream.net] Sent: Tuesday, April 23, 1996 3:51 AM To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU Subject: Re: Renewal of your subscription to the BEE-L list -Forwarded Cliff Van Eaton wrote: > > Subject: Renewal of your subscription to the BEE-L list > Date: Tue, 22 Apr 1997 22:00:10 +1200 > From: "L-Soft list server at University at Albany (1.8c)" > > Tue, 22 Apr 1997 06:00:09 > > Your subscription to the BEE-L list is due for renewal. If you wish > to > remain subscribed to BEE-L, please issue the following command > to > LISTSERV@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU at your earliest convenience: > > CONFIRM BEE-L > > You will be automatically removed from the list if you do not send > a > CONFIRM command within the next 14 days. > > PS: In order to facilitate the task, this message has been > specially > formatted so that you only need to forward it back > to > LISTSERV@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU to have the command executed. Note that > while > the formats produced by the forwarding function of most mail packages > are > supported, replying will seldom work, so make sure to forward and > not > reply. > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > // JOB > CONFIRM BEE-L > // EOJ Confirm BEE LIST ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 17:54:28 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Genie Subject: Newbie Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hi! We have been following the mailing list for a couple of weeks, hoping to gain knowlege on beekeeping. We have learned quite a bit from all the messages coming and going. But, the most exciting and terrifing is the mites and other nasties that attack bees. After reading these messages for a while we had second thoughts about beekeeping. Although we had already ordered the bees. Kind-of scarry. Just a short not to say we are new to beekeeping. Our first two hives arived home today. Guess the bees know what they are doing. They seem to be coming home with their pockests full. Hope we managed to put the boxes together right. We will stay tuned and learn as much as we can. One of the questions I have: what or how do you make candles from the wax(if any)? Thank and keep informing us. Genie Quesnel,B.C. Canada ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 16:47:00 GMT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Andy Nachbaur Organization: WILD BEE'S BBS (209) 826-8107 LOS BANOS, CA Subject: Re: polish >From: "luichart.woollens@virgin.net" >Date: Tue, 22 Apr 1997 19:23:24 +0100 >Subject: Re: polish >Organization: Luichart Woollens >I am interested in a recipe for waterproof shoe polish. It requires 4 oz >beeswax, 4 oz resin, 1 pt linseed oil, 1/4 pt turpentine. Has anyone >any ideas for obtaining the resin. Being a Scot I am unwilling to pay >for this. Can you obtain the resin from pine trees and if so by what >method? I have tried to cut the bark of Scots pines but I think I would >be there till doomsday trying to get 4 ozs! Try leaving it out... --- ~ QMPro 1.53 ~ Press any key to continue or any other key to quit ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 21:37:39 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Albert W Needham Subject: Re: Newbie On Thu, 24 Apr 1997 17:54:28 -0700 Genie writes: >Hi! >We have been following the mailing list for a couple of weeks..... >One of the questions I have: what or how do you make candles from the wax(if >any)? Genie: You can buy wax for this purpose, or after awhile in Beekeeping you accumulate some from the cut-off cappings. Melt the mess in hot water and the wax goes to the top. let it solidify & remove. Then when you think you have enough, put wax in a bucket full of water, heat it up...then you can take "wicking' and keep dipping and redipping and 'voila' you have a homemade candle. Use a longer piece of wicking and dip the other end after you finished the first one and then you have two 'connected' candles. My wife did it outdoors the first time and she and some friends had a "dipping do"! That's the simple way. My wife collects bayberries, boils em down to get the bayberry wax and then adds beeswax..because bayberry by itself tends to be brittle and the soft beeswax prevents this. Now, if you want fancier & 'straighter' candles you can buy a special dipping outfit from a Bee Supply House..like Brushy Mountain here in the U.S...you probably have some in Canada. Maybe Dave Eyre on this list has some candle making equipment. All it consists of is a special (simply made) rig that keeps the wicking taut so that when you are through dipping, your candles will be a bit straighter than the more primitive method described above. It also will handle six candles at a time. Then you can also go ahead and spend money for fancier molds. But, try the simple way to get a 'feel' for it and then later you can decide if you want to spend some money for extra & fancier equipment. Anyway, I am sure that you will hear some more from others...but they do make great gifts at Xmas time. Hard to beat the combo of a jar of honey and a pair of homemade bayberry candles. Do you have bayberry bushes in your area? Al, Al Needham--Scituate,MA,USA--awneedham@juno.com Author Of "The HoneyBee"--An Educational Program Check Out " The Amazing BeeCam " At: http://www.xensei.com/users/alwine/ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 20:31:35 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Carlson@netins.net" Organization: http://www.netins.net/showcase/goldenoak/gof.htm Subject: Another question about collecting Pollen MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mark Johnson wrote: > > With the Varroa dying and dropping to the bottom board > would this pose a danger to the pollen that is collected? I am new and this may be a silly question but ...along the same lines.. what is to stop the bee droppings (poop) from dropping into a pollen basket? Roger Carlson -- Visit us: at the Farm: "http://www.netins.net/showcase/goldenoak/gof.htm" at Aledo Time "http://www.netins.net/showcase/goldenoak/att.htm" ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 21:51:43 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ian Watson Subject: Re: FW: Renewal of your subscription to the BEE-L list -Forwarded In-Reply-To: <01BC50EE.105E8640@port23.swbi.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Thu, 24 Apr 1997, Pam Mather wrote: > > PS: In order to facilitate the task, this message has been > > specially > > formatted so that you only need to forward it back > > to > > LISTSERV@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU to have the command executed. Note that > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > // JOB > > CONFIRM BEE-L > > // EOJ > > > Confirm BEE LIST Why is this process so difficult to understand?????????????? @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ @ Ian Watson @ @ iwatson@freenet.npiec.on.ca @ @ @ @ THREE BEES: @ @ Bach singer ,/// @ @ Bee keeper >8'III}- @ @ Bell ringer ',\\\ @ @ @ @ 5 hives, 2 years in Beekeeping @ @ St. Catharines, Canada @ @ "I BEE, therefore I am" @ @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 19:39:00 GMT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Andy Nachbaur Organization: WILD BEE'S BBS (209) 826-8107 LOS BANOS, CA Subject: Re: Measuring Nutritional Status Hi Allen, AD>> You can feed you bees pure whole blood and run the nitrogen tests off >> the scale, but you will end up with nothing. AD>Are you referring to nitrogen analysis in the bees or in the feed? I'm >thinking that one would just assay a bee sample in the fall, say, to >decide if a supplement is required. Cheeper to look at the label on the feed. I suspect the real analysis needed would not be the nitrogen in the feed or bee but in any case it would be impossible to correct any problems in the bees then living and a new cycle of bees would need to be reared with the corrected diet to make any difference in the hive. AD> >> Here in central California an average field hive will consume 1# to 2# >> of protein extenders a week and rear normal brood, but if they run out >> all is set back to day one, AD>What exactly happens here? Is it that there is no protein for the >emerging bees to eat, or just that brood rearing ceases? Is serious harm >done if they run out of supplement? I notice mosts references say >something like what you said here, but I need it spelled out for me :) What happens is the "double whammy", as soon as the buggers run out of protein they eat the brood so you have a double set back, one the lack of new brood, the other the loss of a part of the old brood. The reason for this is the fact that bees can not store these diets in the comb for later use in any large amounts as they do with pollen so when the diet runs out brood rearing stops. We don't really have a pollen substitute, but only a diet. In the bee hive the pollen is not really the bee food, the bees must work it or ferment it into bee bread or bee food, they then liquefy it for use as needed. You can see that after they do this a liquid film on the cells they are feeding from, as all bee food must be a liquid as they have no way of handling solids that can not be liquefied. AD>> so as they consume the protein in ever grater amounts it is necessary to >> tend them more often with more protein and of course they will also need >> syrup. AD>Hmmm. I guess I'd better get out there tomorrow. AD>When can I quit giving them patties? Do I just put them on til the bees >refuse to eat them (seems wasteful)? Or will they eat it from time to >time right thru the spring if I leave it on? Depends on what you want to do, if you want lots of early young bees for increase then you continue to feed until mother nature really takes over the job. If all you want is a core of young bees that will better take advantage of early natural food supplies by being able to feed bee grubs you can quit at any time. As for the total consumption of the patties late in the season, I have seen it go both ways, that is the junk would stay in the hive forever. I never had that problem and suspect it depends on how much sugar you put in the patties, and for certain use only HFC if you have it as it makes a much better and easier to handle patties. I am sure that also if no protein is available when you start the diet then the bees will continue to consume it after natural protein starts, a darn good thing if you first source of pollen is poor bee food. In feed lot beekeeping the biggest error is not starting early enough as TIME is the most critical ingredient. No amount of extra feed can make up for time and only adds to the cost of rearing bees. It is also well to remember that without young queens all you will do is make your swarming problems come earlier, but they will bee healthier and bigger with a worn out queen. Its well to point out that the attraction in bee diets is the sugar. You can regulate to some extent the consumption of the protein part of the diet by increasing of decreasing the amount of sugar. The main ingredient in all the diets I have used or tested that worked was yeast. Pollen can be added, but it is a good way to add someone else's bee health problems. Most beekeepers would not in a 100 years feed their neighbors honey to their bee's but for a reason I have never understood they will feed his pollen without question. If you have never had Chalk Brood a good way to get it or expand it is to feed pollen. No amount of soy flower is beneficial to bees as a bee food, forget what others are doing or saying. It would be better to add a food grade cellulose to reduce protein if necessary, but with yeasts or fermentation byproducts it may not be necessary. If protein ingredients other then yeasts are used then they will need to be fermented and will tend to dry out in the hives and get moldy if not used in a few days. Most beekeepers who report problems with the bees not using their diets are not using food the bees can use and bees will leave them as soon as natural food starts coming in. A good bee diet will be consumed any time it is placed in the beehive no matter what is going on outside the hive, all others are no more then supplements. One last point, when I got into this I looked at what others were doing in the insectary and that's what I would do today if I was interested. I did find that all had one magic ingredient that was never listed and only reveled to people they trusted. This was universal from California to Florida in the insectary business. I can not reveal the secret here as it would violate the trust others have put in me, but I can say that it is the same magic ingredient that the first astronauts hyped when they made the first trip to the moon, and is found in TANG. None could give a scientific reason for adding this, but all did.. I must admit that I used it also at times and also some electrolytes that you can find at the bigger feed stores. No one knows for sure if these trace minerals and vitamins are necessary, but I can not report any harm or gain from using them and know others who know much more then I that would not make up any insect diet without them. LAST point, I have seen and heard it all, and if what others are doing works for them I never would suggest they change as each of us operates in his or her's own vacuum anyway. I have spent 1000's of hours watching my bees gather different products that did nothing for them or me, and wish that a 100% liquid protein diet for bees was here as that would be ideal, but maybe another generation will take up the challenge. ttul Andy- (c) Permission is granted to freely copy this document in any form, or to print for any use. (w)Opinions are not necessarily facts. Use at own risk. --- ~ QMPro 1.53 ~ Beekeepers Dream..... 80,000+ Females in one box....!. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 23:20:40 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Dave Pritchard Subject: Re: polish MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello Try substituting propolis. I've used it, but in conjunction with 'all weather' rosin for bows obtained from a musical instrument shop. About $3, US. I use Neatsfoot oil instead of linseed oil. Odorless mineral spirits are subbed for the terps. D Pritchard dpritch@epix.net luichart.woollens@virgin.net wrote: > > I am interested in a recipe for waterproof shoe polish. It requires 4 oz > beeswax, 4 oz resin, 1 pt linseed oil, 1/4 pt turpentine. Has anyone > any ideas for obtaining the resin. Being a Scot I am unwilling to pay > for this. Can you obtain the resin from pine trees and if so by what > method? I have tried to cut the bark of Scots pines but I think I would > be there till doomsday trying to get 4 ozs! > > Harry > Scotland. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 21:30:04 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Paul Cronshaw, D.C." Subject: Beehive Temperature Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Just trying to clear up a fact that I have heard a while back: Is the inside beehive temp the same as human body Temp. 98.6 degrees F Paul Cronshaw, D.C. Cyberchiro and Hobby Beekeeper Santa Barbara, CA USA ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Apr 1997 12:38:24 +0200 Reply-To: jtemp@xs4all.nl Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jan Tempelman Organization: Home Subject: Re: Beehive Temperature MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-2 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Paul Cronshaw, D.C. wrote: > > Just trying to clear up a fact that I have heard a while back: > > Is the inside beehive temp the same as human body Temp. 98.6 degrees F > > Paul Cronshaw, D.C. > Cyberchiro and Hobby Beekeeper > Santa Barbara, CA USA I buy a little electronic temperature ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Apr 1997 08:54:38 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Aaron Morris Subject: RENEW BEE-L via LISTSERV@cnsibm.albany.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT RENEW BEE-L It's an annual, autopilot sort of thing where LISTSERV requests that you renew you subscription to BEE-L by issuing the RENEW BEE-L command. All those not issuing the command get dropped from the list. It's LISTSERV's janitorial way of making sure that all subscribers are still there and still interested. Any confusion over the renew command is probably the same as the usual confusion about sending commands to LISTSERV vs posting to BEE-L. The RENEW BEE-L command should be sent in a single line of mail to: LISTSERV@cnsibm.albany.edu The command should NOT be send to BEE-L, all that will do is forward the RENEW BEE-L command to the entire list and by now subscribers have seen it at least 6 or 7 times. So, to renew your subscription to BEE-L, send mail with a single line in the body of the mail that reads: RENEW BEE-L Address this single line in the body of the mail to: LISTSERV@cnsibm.albany.edu I guess some will think this is a pain in the butt, but hey, I don't write it I just install it. Administratively yours, Aaron Morris ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Apr 1997 10:33:09 CST6CDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Rodney L. Holloway" Organization: Ag. and Environmental Safety Subject: Re: Looking for Houston, TX beekeepers > My family will be vacationing in Houston, TX in July. Are there any > beekeepers on the list that live in that area that I could visit? > Try Herschel Womac, Houston Beekeepers Assoc. 713-762-7755 ... Herb Barrier, Harris County Beekeepers Assoc. 713-485-1234... Johnny Johnson, North Harris County Beekeepers Assoc. 713-367-8250. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Apr 1997 11:10:39 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Carlson@netins.net" Organization: http://www.netins.net/showcase/goldenoak/gof.htm Subject: Terramycin question/help needed MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit We are ready to install our bees.. BUT we have one problem.. I went to the store to buy Terramycin to mix with the powdered sugar, but all the store could come up with is Terramycin-343, it doesn't say anything about bees like the other Terramycin does.. Can I use this? At what concentration? I would appreciate any help. Roger Carlson -- Visit us: at the Farm: "http://www.netins.net/showcase/goldenoak/gof.htm" at Aledo Time "http://www.netins.net/showcase/goldenoak/att.htm" ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Apr 1997 11:55:44 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Brett D Bannon Subject: Wiring brood foundation I am in the process of wiring my 9 1/8 " brood frames. I have decided to use four wires to support the foundation, because I want the best brood cells possible for my effort. Do I put all wires on one side? Or would it be a good idea to alternate wire, ending up with two on each side of the foundation? Brett D. Bannon bbannon@juno.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Apr 1997 11:55:44 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Brett D Bannon Subject: Making Increase by splitting? Question: How well does it work to just split my double body hives, letting the one raise their own queen, as compared to waiting for swarm cells to be available before making the split. Would appreciate comments on this process---it helps me make up my mind on the best way to make increase. Thanks in advance. Brett D. Bannon bbannon@juno.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Apr 1997 11:18:38 -0500 Reply-To: snapshot@pbmo.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "M. C. Michel" Organization: Snap Shot Subject: Re: 'H' Bees MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Bob Arnett wrote: > childhood memories of > a type of non-stinging bee. They called them 'H' bees because of a > distinctive mark on their backs. > > Can anyone tell me more about these 'H' bees. Where we live a > non-stinging > bee would be most neighborly and I wonder if these might be > domesticated and > commercially available. How interesting, Last night, I was speaking of my bee interests with a friend. He told me the same story about the "H" bee. I thought that it was silly. Then, I was checking over my volumes of mail and found this reference. I too would like to hear any information regarding these bees. I am reminded of how smart my father is. He taught me to never "Argue in the negative." I was sure my friend was recalling a childhood fantasy. But I did not dispute what he said. And now this, it could be real? I would like to hear any info on this subject. Thanks, M. Chris Michel Poplar Bluff, Mo ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Apr 1997 14:41:04 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ted Wout Subject: Re: Making Increase by splitting? Brett D Bannon wrote: > How well does it work to just split my double body hives, letting >the one raise their own queen, as compared to waiting for swarm cells to >be available before making the split. Would appreciate comments on this >process---it helps me make up my mind on the best way to make increase. >Thanks in advance. If your goal is to avoid losing bees because they swarm, it would make sense to see if they ever do show signs of swarming before splitting. If they do not swarm that hive will make more honey for you than the two splits put together because they will spend so much effort just drawing out the comb that you have removed to make the split. If your goal is to have more hives, it would make sense to me to buy queens to add to the split. Queens produced by a split are emergency queens and aren't necessarily of good quality. Commercially raised queens from a reputable source are raised under much better conditions and should perform better. The queen will be the mother of her hive so it's important to have one that will be prolific, of good quality and known origin. There's no telling what kind of bees are out there for your emergency queen to mate with. Commercial queen producers use queens of known progeny and quality that are mated in beeyards that have hives of known progeny putting out drones. It costs a little bit more but makes sense in the long run. I have fought the urge to swarm in the past and lost bees. This year I didn't fight the urge to swarm but worked with it. I made splits from hives that had swarm cells and cut out the swarm cells in the split that already had a queen. They seem to have worked out just fine and are building up for honey flow. Last year I cut out queen cells, didn't split, the hive swarmed anyway and then I was left with a queenless hive. Lesson learned. While queens raised for swarming aren't as good as supersedure queens, I think they're better than emergency queens. Commercial queens can really fall anywhere on that scale depending on the source and conditions under which she was raised. It's still a gamble but the odds are better in your favor. If you split, make sure you have queen cells or eggs that are less than 72 hours old in the split that doesn't have a queen. If you're not sure which split has the queen, you can make sure that both splits have queen cells and eggs that have been laid in the last 72 hours. Go back later, find the queen and cut swarm cells out of her hive. I'd recommend feeding the splits as much sugar water as they'll take. They will use that to make comb and then nectar will be stored as honey, not used to make comb. Just opinions based on my experiences, FWIW. Ted Wout Red Oak, TX ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Apr 1997 15:14:10 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Eugene Makovec Subject: supersedure questions I need some expert advice on supersedure. Ten days ago I inspected one of my 3 hives and found no eggs or larvae - lots of sealed brood. (I know I didn't kill the queen as I hadn't been in there in 3 weeks.) I was afraid they'd just swarmed or were about to. I waited 9 days & went back (yesterday) -- still no eggs, but still some capped brood. I also discovered two capped supersedure cells (laid across middle of comb) with a lot of activity around them -- maybe they're about to hatch out? One other curiosity -- an overabundance of drones --- like 20 or more on each frame (usually I almost have to look for them), and lots of capped drone cells, though in nice patterns, and plenty of worker cells also. Questions: was queen laying too many drones? -- did they opt to replace her? -- do they kill her first? -- Otherwise what keeps her from killing developing queens? I'd be very appreciative of some insight from some of you "real" beekeepers. Eugene Makovec St. Louis ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Apr 1997 16:27:24 -0500 Reply-To: snapshot@pbmo.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "M. C. Michel" Organization: Snap Shot Subject: Publication Lists Wanted MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Can someone E-mail me a list of Bee related publications? I would like to gather as much information as possible. I would like to contact each one to get a subscription. Thanks in advance. M. Chris Michel cmichel@pbmo.net ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Apr 1997 17:50:19 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: bartlett Subject: Re: Wiring brood foundation Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Brett, I think you will find it quite difficult to wire the frame with alternating wires. All on one side will do fine. You do have to embed the wires. Are you OK on that?? Billy bee ---------- > From: Brett D Bannon > To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU > Subject: Wiring brood foundation > Date: 25 avr. 1997 11:55 > > I am in the process of wiring my 9 1/8 " brood frames. I have decided to > use four wires to support the foundation, because I want the best brood > cells possible for my effort. Do I put all wires on one side? Or would > it be a good idea to alternate wire, ending up with two on each side of > the foundation? > > Brett D. Bannon > bbannon@juno.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Apr 1997 20:00:15 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Curtis L. Spacek" Subject: Re: Renewal of your subscription to the BEE-L list -Forwarded MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cliff Van Eaton wrote: > > L-Soft list server at University at Albany (1.8c) wrote: > > Tue, 22 Apr 1997 06:00:09 > > Your subscription to the BEE-L list is due for renewal. If you wish > to > remain subscribed to BEE-L, please issue the following command > to > LISTSERV@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU at your earliest convenience: > > CONFIRM BEE-L > > You will be automatically removed from the list if you do not send > a > CONFIRM command within the next 14 days. > > PS: In order to facilitate the task, this message has been > specially > formatted so that you only need to forward it back > to > LISTSERV@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU to have the command executed. Note that > while > the formats produced by the forwarding function of most mail packages > are > supported, replying will seldom work, so make sure to forward and > not > reply. > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > // JOB > CONFIRM BEE-L > // EOJ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Apr 1997 21:35:29 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Aaron Wolfenbarger Subject: Bouncing How much mail is everyone getting from this list?? I have only gottten one piece of mail tonight and surely everyone is getting more than that. Please let me know so I can see if I need to resub through juno or through AOL. Please let me know by directly e-mailing me at AaFishes@AOL.com Thanks. Aaron 1st year two hives BTW I am removing my first swarm tommorrow morning which just happens to have comb built. So remember me tommorrow morning. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Apr 1997 23:19:21 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: John Wolford Subject: Re: Wiring brood foundation MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit What is the purpose of the wiring both sides of the foundation for the additional support? I thought the purpose of wiring foundation was just to add additional strenght to the comb during extraction. I'm new at bee keeping and rather clumsy at wiring. I am having a difficult time determing if the wire is embedded or not. I use an electric wire embedder which apprears to partially embed the wire. Is this ok? John M. Wolford ---------- > From: Brett D Bannon > To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU > Subject: Wiring brood foundation > Date: Friday, April 25, 1997 11:55 AM > > I am in the process of wiring my 9 1/8 " brood frames. I have decided to > use four wires to support the foundation, because I want the best brood > cells possible for my effort. Do I put all wires on one side? Or would > it be a good idea to alternate wire, ending up with two on each side of > the foundation? > > Brett D. Bannon > bbannon@juno.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Apr 1997 20:22:12 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Genie Subject: Re: Renewal of your subscription to the BEE-L list -Forwarded Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >Return-Path: <@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU:owner-bee-l@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU> >Approved-By: "Curtis L. Spacek" >Date: Fri, 25 Apr 1997 20:00:15 -0500 >Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology >Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology >From: "Curtis L. Spacek" >Subject: Re: Renewal of your subscription to the BEE-L list -Forwarded >To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU > >Cliff Van Eaton wrote: >> >> L-Soft list server at University at Albany (1.8c) wrote: >> >> Tue, 22 Apr 1997 06:00:09 >> >> Your subscription to the BEE-L list is due for renewal. If you wish >> to >> remain subscribed to BEE-L, please issue the following command >> to >> LISTSERV@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU at your earliest convenience: >> >> CONFIRM BEE-L >> >> You will be automatically removed from the list if you do not send >> a >> CONFIRM command within the next 14 days. >> >> PS: In order to facilitate the task, this message has been >> specially >> formatted so that you only need to forward it back >> to >> LISTSERV@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU to have the command executed. Note that >> while >> the formats produced by the forwarding function of most mail packages >> are >> supported, replying will seldom work, so make sure to forward and >> not >> reply. >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> // JOB >> CONFIRM BEE-L >> // EOJ > > Quesnel,B.C. Canada ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Apr 1997 23:21:24 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Robert Barnett Organization: DNA Subject: Re: Beehive Temperature MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Paul Cronshaw, D.C. wrote: > > Just trying to clear up a fact that I have heard a while back: > > Is the inside beehive temp the same as human body Temp. 98.6 degrees F I believe the question asks the temperature of the central *cluster*, and not the ambient temperature about the cluster but within the hive. When brood is present, this is within 1 degree of 35 C. (92 F) Source: The_Hive_and_the_Honey_Bee, 1992 Revision, Joe M.Graham, Editor. In hive ambient temperature is quite variable, dependant on wind and wind breaker protection, entrance reducers, hive ventilation, external temperatures, and other things, often seasonal. Bob Barnett, Birmingham > > Paul Cronshaw, D.C. > Cyberchiro and Hobby Beekeeper > Santa Barbara, CA USA ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Apr 1997 23:52:41 -0600 Reply-To: allend@internode.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Allen Dick Organization: The Beekeepers Subject: Re: Beehive Temperature In-Reply-To: <04220027701873@systronix.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT > > Is the inside beehive temp the same as human body Temp. 98.6 degrees F I've been meaning to get my thermometer and check the marks on it, but as I recall the temperature is more like 95.5 degrees +/- 0.5 degree on the hive I measured with a calibrated high/low thermometer in the brood area during heavy brood rearing in the summer. I understand that individual hives may vary, but have no more info than that. It has been suggested that this may be a factor in the response of different bees to mites and other diseases. It may also account for some of the variability in hatching times for queens from different hives. Queen cells are usually held at 92 degrees because any incubator will overshoot in temperature regulation, and overheating cells is much more harmful that a bit of cooling. (I hope some queen rearer will add to this or correct me, if I have reached the wrong conclusions). I would love to know more about this. Maybe I'll do a bit more measuring this summer. Allen ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Apr 1997 23:25:22 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Paul Cronshaw, D.C." Subject: Bee Removal from Garage Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Bee-listers: I have read with interest the messages describing the removal of bees from a tree. Also, Sally Graves and Ted Wout wrote two nice messages about bee removalusing the bait technique. Here is my situation and I could use some help. This weekend is going to be a bzzzzy one. 3 bee removal jobs. Two will involve the bait technique using some small swarms I recently captured. These colonies need a fast infusion from of another colony to produce any honey this season. The 3rd one I am going to tackle involves a hive in a 2 car garage. Thanks to woodpeckers opening holes in the wood siding, this garage is blessed with a recent swarm. Normally most garages are not constructed with drywall, the studs are exposed along with the black paper and outside wall. However this garage is half drywalled. The bees are between the joists in the loft part of the garage, having moved in right next to a joist space that had bees in the year prior but were exterminated. I cut open the dry wall of the old colony to find remnants of dead bees, honeycomb with honey still stuck to the studs. However, most of the comb had falled down to the first firewall and there was evidence of honey that had leaked out at the point where the dry wall met the floor. I have scooped out most of this moldy mess and have disposed of it knowing there is probable residue from the extermination process. Normally I would prefer to remove bees from the outside but do not want to rip off nice looking siding. I plan to cut out a section of the drywall and remove the bees from the inside. I would be interested in learning any secrets in removing a colony from inside a garage. Oh yes and I will have a vacuum cleaner standing by as the last resort to remove the colony. Still looking for a good bee model vacuum cleaner, one that will not pulverize the bees. BTW I am not charging for any of these 3 jobs. I consider it a community service as a method of spreading the good word about honey bees and thanking these folks for their consideration in saving these special insects. Paul Cronshaw, D.C. Cyberchiro and Hobby Beekeeper Santa Barbara, CA USA ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 26 Apr 1997 06:53:56 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Augustus C. Skamarycz" Subject: Re: supersedure questions Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 03:14 PM 4/25/97 -0400, you wrote: >I need some expert advice on supersedure. >Ten days ago I inspected one of my 3 hives and found no eggs or larvae - lots >of sealed brood. (I know I didn't kill the queen as I hadn't been in there in >3 weeks.) > >I was afraid they'd just swarmed or were about to. I waited 9 days & went >back (yesterday) -- still no eggs, but still some capped brood. I also >discovered two capped supersedure cells (laid across middle of comb) with a >lot of activity around them -- maybe they're about to hatch out? > >One other curiosity -- an overabundance of drones --- like 20 or more on each >frame (usually I almost have to look for them), and lots of capped drone >cells, though in nice patterns, and plenty of worker cells also. > >Questions: was queen laying too many drones? -- did they opt to replace her? >-- do they kill her first? -- Otherwise what keeps her from killing >developing queens? > >I'd be very appreciative of some insight from some of you "real" beekeepers. >Eugene Makovec >St. Louis > >Be patient let the Bees do what they do best, manage their colony. It take about 48 hour for the harmony of the hive to get that colony back to where it was before you disturbed them. An old Queen will not destroy a supersedure cell or a swarm cell. Only Virgin Queens, after one hatches out. The new Virgin will make a piping sound, and unhatched queen will respond, thats how the newly hatched locate the queen and stings the cell with the aid of the workers. Gus Skamarycz Tyngsboro, MA. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 26 Apr 1997 07:12:09 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Steve R Subject: "H" Bee might be a "Drone fly" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit While checking my hives this week I noticed a dozen or so, new to me, bee or fly on the out side on the entrance. They mimic the bees looks and movements. So I checked my "National Audubon Society Field Guide to North America Insects & Spiders" and identified they as "Drone Fly" (Eristalis tenax). On the 2nd segment they do have a distinctive black "H" on the thorax with the yellow making the indent in the top and bottom of the H. The adults eat nectar and pollen. The young are live in stagnant water. Hopefully this is of some help to those trying to track down the H. Bee. Steve R sunrise@barint.on.ca ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 26 Apr 1997 07:22:03 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Augustus C. Skamarycz" Subject: Re: AHB in Costa Rica Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 03:11 PM 1/5/80 -0500, you wrote: >Hello again, > >I am sorry to request this information again, but my hard-drive recently >collapsed resulting in an *entire loss* of all personal files and eudora >e-mails. (Note, this is a reminder to backup all of your important >files--NOW!) > >Once again, my name is Lauren Hale. I am doing research on Africanized >Honey Bees in Costa Rica. I am interested in gaining contacts of people >who would be familiar with the subject. If you can provide me with e-mails >or appropriate bibliographic information, I would be quite grateful. > >For those of you who responded before, I appreciate your quick responses >and advice. I hope it won't be too much trouble to write to me again. >Thank you. > >Lauren > > Try Dr. Dewey Caron University of Delaware, Newark, Delaware. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 26 Apr 1997 07:24:47 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Augustus C. Skamarycz" Subject: Re: AHB in Costa Rica Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 03:11 PM 1/5/80 -0500, you wrote: >Hello again, > >I am sorry to request this information again, but my hard-drive recently >collapsed resulting in an *entire loss* of all personal files and eudora >e-mails. (Note, this is a reminder to backup all of your important >files--NOW!) > >Once again, my name is Lauren Hale. I am doing research on Africanized >Honey Bees in Costa Rica. I am interested in gaining contacts of people >who would be familiar with the subject. If you can provide me with e-mails >or appropriate bibliographic information, I would be quite grateful. > >For those of you who responded before, I appreciate your quick responses >and advice. I hope it won't be too much trouble to write to me again. >Thank you. > >Lauren > >Try Dr. Dewey Caron At the University of Delaware, Newark, Delaware. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 26 Apr 1997 08:30:00 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Joel W. Govostes" Subject: Re: Wiring brood foundation Comments: To: bbannon@JUNO.COM In-Reply-To: <19970425.095524.12254.2.bbannon@juno.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hi Brett, You don't need to wire both sides. Cross-wires provide support for the combs during extraction, but a more important function (especiallly in brood combs) is to ensure the foundation is CENTERED and not bowed at all. Even crimp-wired foundation will bow off center, commonly, with the result that some cells on one side are deeper than normal, and the opposing cells on the other side are too shallow. BOTH can prevent the queen from filling them with brood well and evenly. The worst part is that once the combs are built, it is very difficult to tell if they are bowed or not. The wire, in addition to providing structural strength to prevent sagging, holds the foundation straight and true, in the center of the frame. This results in the best quality combs. Run your cross-wires, then install the foundation to one side of the row of wires. Finally, embed the wires, to secure them to the foundation. NOTE the wire doesn't have to be totally embedded. I just set the frames on the warm hood of my truck for a couple of minutes, to allow the wax to soften, and then run a (hand) spur-embedder across the wires, gently pressing them into the wax. I have a board I cut which fits inside the frame, which I lay the frame/foundation over, to give a solid surface over which to do this. The wax "sticks" to the wires well, so that the foundation is held true, and the bees just build the comb over the wires. You don't need to have the wire "sunk" totally into the wax. THe electric embedders can be tricky, if the wire does not contact the wax evenly, or if it heats unevenly. As long as the wire sticks to the foundation enough to hold it, you are all set. If you don't have a spur-wheel hand embedder, you could use a nail with the tip cut off, or a thin dowel, just pressing the wire to the wax every half inch or so. This will work best if the wax is warm (slightly sticky) and you should lay a piece of wood under the foundation so you have something to press against, without stressing the wax sheet. Have fun, Joel Govostes Freeville, NY >I am in the process of wiring my 9 1/8 " brood frames. I have decided to >use four wires to support the foundation, because I want the best brood >cells possible for my effort. Do I put all wires on one side? Or would >it be a good idea to alternate wire, ending up with two on each side of >the foundation? > >Brett D. Bannon >bbannon@juno.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 26 Apr 1997 14:47:05 +-200 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?J=F8rn_Johanesson?= Subject: SV: "H" Bee might be a "Drone fly" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="---- =_NextPart_000_01BC5250.E18851C0" ------ =_NextPart_000_01BC5250.E18851C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable ---------- Fra: Steve R[SMTP:sunrise@barint.on.ca] Sendt: 26. april 1997 13:12 Til: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU Emne: "H" Bee might be a "Drone fly" While checking my hives this week I noticed a dozen or so, new to me, bee or fly on the out side on the entrance. They mimic the bees looks and movements.=20 A drone is looking a little plump, and have very big eyes. they are = bigger than a normal bee and are stinglees! You will in summertime find = around 200 of those in the Hive. even if you think they are of no use = for you, you should not try to eliminate the existence of those. They = are absolute needed for the normal function of a bee family and you will = loose more honey than they eat. Say I :-) By the way, do you know that a Drone is not a mail but is reel a none, = genetic duplicating exact the Queen it comes from, and can bee seen as a = flying sperm :-) That is why they can be used in queen insemination = filling a queen up with sperm from only one Hive giving the same kind of = bees so and so the rest of the queens life. regards Jorn (Denmark) EDBi =3D Beekeeping Software for win3.1 and win95 http:\\home4.inet.tele.dk\ apimo@post4.tele.dk new registration fee and programeditons (Fixing install errors) is = coming up e-mail for manuall=20 So I checked my "National Audubon Society Field Guide to North America Insects & Spiders" and identified they as "Drone Fly" (Eristalis tenax). On the 2nd segment they do have a distinctive black "H" on the thorax with the yellow making the indent in the top and bottom of the H. The adults eat nectar and pollen. The young are live in stagnant water. Hopefully this is of some help to those trying to track down the H. Bee. 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Try HELP. what is this???? ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 26 Apr 1997 09:30:27 -0700 Reply-To: snielsen@orednet.org Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Susan L. Nielsen" Subject: Re: SV: "H" Bee might be a "Drone fly" >While checking my hives this week I noticed a dozen or so, new to me, >bee or fly on the out side on the entrance. They mimic the bees looks >and movements.=20 The "Drone Fly" is a Syrphid fly. It's not a bee, but the little critter that flies up to a flower, stops dead, and hovers in mid-air. They are considered a garden beneficial since the larvae eat aphids and scales. >A drone is looking a little plump, and have very big eyes. they are = >bigger than a normal bee and are stinglees! The drone bee of the hive is not the same insect as the "Drone Fly." Sorry I don't have the specific name handy, but someone out there might. Susan -- ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 26 Apr 1997 18:45:55 +0200 Reply-To: jtemp@xs4all.nl Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jan Tempelman Organization: Home Subject: 95 % of the varroa mit out MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-2 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit 95% of the varroa mite out aks for discussion ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 26 Apr 1997 19:02:28 +0200 Reply-To: jtemp@xs4all.nl Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jan Tempelman Organization: Home Subject: fight MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-2 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit 95% of the varroa mite out aks for discussion ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 26 Apr 1997 13:13:31 -0600 Reply-To: allend@internode.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Allen Dick Organization: The Beekeepers Subject: Re: Measuring Nutritional Status In-Reply-To: <970424172259385@beenet.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT > I suspect the real analysis needed would not be the nitrogen in the feed > or bee but in any case it would be impossible to correct any problems in > the bees then living and a new cycle of bees would need to be reared > with the corrected diet to make any difference in the hive. This is something I wonder about; I understand that newly hatched bees seek out and eat pollen, and the amount and quality that they consume determines how robust they will be. However from the Australian article, I understood that the bees lost protein as the honey flow continued. Now was this due to young bees hatching and not being properly nourished, or is it due to adults using up their body reserves of protein? Or both? Do adult bees require pollen throughout their entire lives? Allen BTW, I lost a lot of incoming mail and some folders of material I intended to reply to recently, so if anyone on this list wrote me in the last week or so, please send me another copy. TIA ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 26 Apr 1997 22:11:02 +0200 Reply-To: jtemp@xs4all.nl Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jan Tempelman Organization: Home Subject: varroa fight MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-2 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit 95% of the varroa mite out ask for discussion scientist in the Netherlands have developed a method of removing 95% of the varroa mite without drug or acid/chemicals!!!!! I have tried ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 26 Apr 1997 22:15:27 +0200 Reply-To: jtemp@xs4all.nl Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jan Tempelman Organization: Home Subject: varroa fight2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-2 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit 95% of the varroa mite out ask for discussion scientist in the Netherlands have developed a method of removing 95% of the varroa mite without drug or acid/chemicals!!!!! I have tried to set it in a table Can everybody who is on this subject, look at it, and reflect ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 26 Apr 1997 22:18:02 +0200 Reply-To: jtemp@xs4all.nl Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jan Tempelman Organization: Home Subject: varroa fight3 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-2 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit our bee list is a litle bit of consciousness > 95% of the varroa mite out > ask for discussion http://www.xs4all.nl/~jtemp.dronemethod.html -- -------------------------------------------------------- Jan Tempelman / Ineke Drabbe | EMAIL:jtemp@xs4all.nl Sterremos 16 3069 AS Rotterdam, The Netherlands Tel/Fax (SOMETIMES) XX 31 (0)10-4569412 homepage webside: http://www.xs4all.nl/~jtemp/index2.html webside van het AmbrosiusGilde: http://www.xs4all.nl/~jtemp/ambro_index.html webside for NECTAR: http://www.xs4all.nl/~jtemp/nectar_index.html with some pages in english on solitary bees -------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 26 Apr 1997 16:23:12 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Brett D Bannon Subject: Test for Varroa mite? I had been told of a simple test for varroa that involved putting a number of bees in a glass jar, spraying with ether (starting fluid for diesel engines) and shaking. If varroa were to be found they would be seen sticking on the sides of the glass jar. Is this a valid way for a definite test to see if your hives have these "critters"? How many bees do you need to sacrifice? Also do you use older foraging bees from the front of the hive or would it be better to use young ones still working on the brood comb? Brett D. Bannon bbannon@juno.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 26 Apr 1997 19:22:11 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Brian R Tucker Subject: Double Queen Just in case anyone is interested. I have succsesfully double queened my first hive. It is quite diffenent opening up the hive and haveing to queens working. The amount of brood and bees is amazing. If you have never experianced this I would recomend it. Brian Tucker Polo MO ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 26 Apr 1997 19:36:02 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Paul Basehore Subject: Re: Double Queen Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 07:22 PM 4/26/97 -0400, you wrote: >Just in case anyone is interested. I have succsesfully double queened my >first hive. It is quite diffenent opening up the hive and haveing to queens >working. The amount of brood and bees is amazing. If you have never >experianced this I would recomend it. > >Brian Tucker >Polo MO >Brian could you elaborate on the process you used I would like to try this also. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 26 Apr 1997 20:30:00 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Trevor Weatherhead Subject: Re: - Body protein measurements Allen Dick asked how we manage to feed supplements and if we have a problem with competition from natural pollens that result in wastage. Firstly, from the thread on Bee-L, I think there needs to be the distinction made between supplements and substitutes. We know from work that if there is no natural pollen then feeding as a substitute will be alright for say two rounds of brood but after that it can be deadly. We tend to use supplements. This is where there is natural pollen but either it is not enough or bad weather intervenes and stops collection or the pollen they are collecting is deficient in either one or more of the amino acids. I mentioned before that some of our pollens are deficient in iso-leucine. The other amino acid that can be deficient in methionine. We tend to use expeller soya flour as a supplement. It is interesting to note that if you feed soya in a top feeder the bees do not take much but put it out in the open and they will be all over it. One person here in Australia has developed a patty using soya, torula yeast, irradiated pollen and irradiated honey. These are feed to the colonies by placing them in the brood nest. The reason the pollen and honey are irradiated is to get rid of nasties like chalkbrood and AFB. The theory is that, if say a pollen is deficient in iso-leucine, then the bee has to cunsume a lot more pollen to get the amount of iso-leucine necessary. By feeding a supplement like soya which is high in iso-leucine (i.e. it is above De Groots ideal ratio), then this will raise the level of iso-leucine so that the bee will not have to consume as much pollen. You might ask what happens to the rest of the amino acids that are consumed in excess. We are told this is excreted. So we see it as not wasting pollen but actually helping extend the pollen being colleceted. On the bee side, we know from research that there can a raising of the level of the bee's body protein by supplementary feeding when pollens, that are deficient, are being collected. There have been trials carried out in Australia on the palability of various supplements and substitutes. We have information from a pilot trial that indicates that looking after the nutrition side may help in preventing hives from getting EFB, which after all is a stress related disease. Anyway, I think we now realise that nutrition is far more important that we have previously realised. We in Australia are putting more money into research in this field as the diminishing floral resource means we have to get smarter in managing our colonies. Trevor Weatherhead AUSTRALIA ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 26 Apr 1997 21:11:47 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: krengel lawrence e Subject: Re: Terramycin question/help needed In-Reply-To: <3360D77F.1DAB@netins.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII I would wonder why you would use terramycin with your new bees... if you are installing a package. Terramycin controls foul brood - I think - and in the package there is no brood. On the other hand, Bob Cox... the Iowa State Apiarist... suggests using Fumidil B which is used to control nosema which may be a problem due to the stress of shipping. Just a thought. Larry Krengel Marengo, Illinois USA On Fri, 25 Apr 1997, Carlson@netins.net wrote: > We are ready to install our bees.. BUT we have one problem.. > I went to the store to buy Terramycin to mix with the powdered sugar, > but all the store could come up with is Terramycin-343, it doesn't say > anything about bees like the other Terramycin does.. > > Can I use this? > At what concentration? > I would appreciate any help. > > Roger Carlson > -- > Visit us: > at the Farm: "http://www.netins.net/showcase/goldenoak/gof.htm" > at Aledo Time "http://www.netins.net/showcase/goldenoak/att.htm" > ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 26 Apr 1997 21:16:23 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Carlson@netins.net" Organization: http://www.netins.net/showcase/goldenoak/gof.htm Subject: A beginners first install ! ! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit We just carried out our first installation of bees... I didn't get stung and besides a couple stumbling blocks everything went well.. so far.. The only problems I ran into are as follows... 1. I had seen video tapes and read books about taking the cover off of the bees shipping box then removing the queen cage, putting her in the hive then removing the syrup feeder and shaking the bees in. This got me off on the wrong foot when I opened the cover and found out that you had to get the syrup can out to get to the queen! 2. I removed five frames for the queen and bees, then tried to put the frames back (except for one) I couldn't get more than two of the frames back in. I finally closed the lid, opened it back up a few minutes later and got them in. 3. In a few books it tells you to check the hive the next day to see if the queen is out, another book tells you to wait at least three days, and now the "hiving instructions" tell me to wait a week to check. IS there any "best" time to do this... 4. How fast will they go through the pollen substitute patties (how often do I need to replace them? What an experience! ! ! The first hive took about 20 minutes to install, the second took about 10 minutes. (It did howeer take me about 15 minutes to get out of the duct taped, gloved, and veiled equipment I was wearing!) Roger & Wendy Carlson -- Visit us: at the Farm: "http://www.netins.net/showcase/goldenoak/gof.htm" at Aledo Time "http://www.netins.net/showcase/goldenoak/att.htm" ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 26 Apr 1997 21:16:04 +0000 Reply-To: barry@birkey.com Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Barry Birkey Organization: Birkey.com Subject: Re: varroa fight3 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jan Tempelman wrote: > > our bee list is a litle bit of consciousness > > 95% of the varroa mite out > > ask for discussion > > http://www.xs4all.nl/~jtemp.dronemethod.html This should be: http://www.xs4all.nl/~jtemp/dronemethod.html - Barry -- Barry Birkey West Chicago, Illinois USA barry@birkey.com http://www.birkey.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 26 Apr 1997 19:56:35 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Roy Nettlebeck Subject: Re: Measuring Nutritional Status Comments: To: Allen Dick In-Reply-To: <19145926100096@systronix.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Sat, 26 Apr 1997, Allen Dick wrote: > > I suspect the real analysis needed would not be the nitrogen in the feed > > or bee but in any case it would be impossible to correct any problems in > > the bees then living and a new cycle of bees would need to be reared > > with the corrected diet to make any difference in the hive. > > This is something I wonder about; I understand that newly hatched bees > seek out and eat pollen, and the amount and quality that they consume > determines how robust they will be. > Hi Allen, In Steve Tabers book, Breeding super Bees. He addresses the issue of the quality of pollen as being important for drone production.If the quality is down the hive will be unable to raise drones. Protien quality and quanity has to be an important part of early developement. In raising queens it is very important , with plenty of good nurse bees. I wish I had more info on old worker bees. I have noticed workers getting honey and passing it around , but not pollen. I bet someone has a hive set up with a camera that can answer the question for us. We are what we eat. May have some truth to it in bees also. I know that they need a complete diet and all protiens are not equal. Best Regards Roy ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 26 Apr 1997 23:27:40 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Brian R Tucker Subject: Double Queening So people asked for the method I used in double queening my hive here goes. 1. I took my strongest overwintered hive ( it was over wintered in 2 hive bodies) and about 3 weeks ago I split all the bood and bees evenly ( or as evenly as posible) in 2 hive bodies.I then took an inner cover that was notched for an enterence and placed it on top of the hive body with the old queen in it (I also added a hive body to that section so the old queen had room to lay in 2 hive bodies). So I got 2 hive bodies with the old queen laying in them an inner cover with a notch for an entrance for the bees at the top and anouther hive body. I covered the hole in the inner cover to keep the bees seperate. I then added a new queen to the hive body that was queenless. 2. A few days later I checked to see if the new queen was out. She wasn't so I released her and let her go at it. 3 days later checked to make sure she was laying and everything was good so far. 3. About a week and a half after I intoduced the new queen to the queenless hive body I was ready to join them and the original colony back together. I got a wood bound queen excluder and notched an entrance on one side. I sprayed the bees with vanilla water to confuse the scent alittle put the excluder over the original collony that housed the old queen and then put the hive body with the new queen over the excluder.( need to make sure that there is an entrance for the top or drones can't get out) 4. 2 days ago I added a secound hive body for the new queen. So my collony is now 4 hive bodies tall 3 of which are almost full of brood and a fourth that is starting to get filled. And I haven't even put honey supers on yet. People say just before the end of the honeyflow to remove the excluder and let the queens fight it out but I am going to just split this hive during the fall flow and try the same next year. Brian tucker POLO MO ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 27 Apr 1997 03:34:00 GMT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Andy Nachbaur Organization: WILD BEE'S BBS (209) 826-8107 LOS BANOS, CA Subject: Re: - Body protein measurements TW>From: Trevor Weatherhead >Date: Sat, 26 Apr 1997 20:30:00 -0400 >Subject: Re: - Body protein measurements >with competition from natural pollens that result in wastage. Hi Trevor, *** What I write is not meant to be personal or critical of what has already been written and is only my own opinion and written only to add to the body of the tread. I add this because I know some of the list work for governments and have very thin skins, (they don't get outside enough), or are more nationalistic then this poor gringo. I have found that in a dark room it is hard to tell the government beekeepers for the real people, and so it is in this list. (Well, on second thought maybe the government people do smell better in the dark, and spell better in the list.) So I BEElieve', If the bees waste your diet then it may not be complete, lacks the proper amount of sugar, or you are starting too late in the season. TW>Firstly, from the thread on Bee-L, I think there needs to be the distinction >made between supplements and substitutes. We know from work that if there i >no natural pollen then feeding as a substitute will be alright for say two >rounds of brood but after that it can be deadly. A distinction should be first made between what bees eat and pollen. Bee collected pollen alone or force fed in a liquid diet will stop all brood rearing activity and depending on the pollen, plug the bees up tighter then super glue. Looking at bee collected pollen is not the same as looking at bee food, but is good and should make one want to look at the bee food if for no other reason then to see how the bees change what we find in the pollen. The natural food for bees is a fermentation product made from pollen and their own secret recipes, some call it bee bread. All food is taken up through the straw they carry with them, and none is chunked off and eaten. The pollen cells with the film of liquid on top are the one's being used as food, all others are of no value other then pollen in storage. All food, and all protein food must be of the right size to liquefy and be sucked up for a bee to use it. Bees will die fast if all they have is a field of pollen loaded flowers and no hive to work it into bee food or bee bread under the ideal fermentation conditions normally found in the brood rearing area of the bee hive. Changes are made to the bee collected pollen and no doubt there is some neutralization or dilution of what would be bee toxins, but not all bee toxins, natural or man made for sure are or can be changed by the bees and they suffer much from them I am sure. (For the PETA spy's) TW>We tend to use supplements. This is where there is natural pollen but eithe >it is not enough or bad weather intervenes and stops collection or the >pollen they are collecting is deficient in either one or more of the amino >acids. Thats called a safety net, if your artificial diet is lacking in anything the bees will make it up with the natural as little if any artificial diets are stored in the hive for later use. If a diet is not good enough for long periods when NO pollen is in the hive it is doubtful of its value when pollen is coming in..(40+ seasons observations, no two the same) TW>I mentioned before that some of our pollens are deficient in iso-leucine. T >other amino acid that can be deficient in methionine. We tend to use expell >soya flour as a supplement. It is interesting to note that if you feed soya >in a top feeder the bees do not take much but put it out in the open and the >will be all over it. The best natural food for bees is a mixture of that made from several kinds of pollens. Some single source pollens actually cause a reduction of brood rearing, and some cause bees to hatch that have little of what it takes to feed young bees, and/or these skinny bees don't live as long as normal bees and some may never reach forager age. NONE or few pollen's, (as there is always some exception growing in an isolated area that will not conform with my rule's), anyway most of the time NO single source pollen makes good bee food. The other end of this rule is that pollen from some plants that produce poor quality pollen is better then NO pollen and bees can overcome most natural disasters. One such poor pollen is from the Almond, a pollen in the United States that most commercial beekeepers can not avoid as the smell of money has a way of over coming the common senses's. Almond pollen may contain a high sugar or wood sugar that is actually detrimental to honeybees. Other pollens that are not good by themselves is that from the fall tar weeds, which will shut brood rearing down in a few weeks and plug up the hive with pollen. In areas that have dandy lions in amounts that surplus honey can be produced one out of three years, you can expect the worse brake down of EFB without treatment early and during the blooming period. Some gum trees transplanted in California that bloom in the spring will cause the same problems. A famous plant, named by beekeepers long gone, as is this plant that once grew by the 10's of thousands of acres in the flood plains of the central valley of California, called Jack Ass Clover, not a clover at all, but named because the beekeepers would have a hard time finding their Ass's when a hard days work was done, (some will say a common problem yet today), but they needed to hitch them back up to the old time bee wagons. (Today we expect them to go out and load a truck with bees.) Anyhow, this plant bloomed in the late summer and produced much honey until frost, and would grow taller then the Jack's ear's and rear end, and I have seen it, higher then the top of a loaded 10 wheeler bee truck...100% of the bees wintered on and in this bee pasture source would end up having EFB the next spring and local migratory beekeeping started just to move these hives to costal locations so they would start earlier and over come the effects of this fine honey plant. TW>One person here in Australia has developed a patty using soya, torula yeast, >irradiated pollen and irradiated honey. These are feed to the colonies by >placing them in the brood nest. The reason the pollen and honey are >irradiated is to get rid of nasties like chalkbrood and AFB. TW>The theory is that, if say a pollen is deficient in iso-leucine, then the be >has to cunsume a lot more pollen to get the amount of iso-leucine necessary. >By feeding a supplement like soya which is high in iso-leucine (i.e. it is >above De Groots ideal ratio), then this will raise the level of iso-leucine >so that the bee will not have to consume as much pollen. TW>You might ask what happens to the rest of the amino acids that are consumed >excess. We are told this is excreted. So we see it as not wasting pollen b >actually helping extend the pollen being colleceted. TW>On the bee side, we know from research that there can a raising of the level >of the bee's body protein by supplementary feeding when pollens, that are >deficient, are being collected. TW>There have been trials carried out in Australia on the palability of various >supplements and substitutes. We have information from a pilot trial that >indicates that looking after the nutrition side may help in preventing hives >from getting EFB, which after all is a stress related disease. Torula yeast is the best bee food depending what it is made from, there is a BIG difference between the food source from which the yeast is made. That made from forest by products is IMHO superior to that made from corn. All activity in the bee hive is a STRESS, success is by accident and depends on the ratio of stress to income, be it bees reared, swarms released or the pounds of pollen and honey produced needed for the seasons activity and the coming dearth after the last visit by the beekeeper who takes his cut of the honey. A beekeepers observation on the down side of artificial and out of season bee diets; Feeding bees magnifies ALL bee health problems such as EFB, chalk brood, vampire mites and you name it. If you want to study these problems you first learn how to rear bees out of season because it does magnify the problems and makes them easier to study without the magic of the strange variety of pollen that comes into a beehive during the active season. Here in the US we would bee up the creek as far a commercial bee feeding if it were not for the prophylactic use of TM as until you experience a EFB loss in the middle of your spring build up the day before you start shaking bees for shipping or just before the main honey flow it is impossible to realize what can happen in a few days time with brood diseases such as what we call EFB... TW>Anyway, I think we now realise that nutrition is far more important that we >have previously realised. We in Australia are putting more money into >research in this field as the diminishing floral resource means we have to g >smarter in managing our colonies. More power to the Queen, no one would disagree with you and we are all looking forward to more from good works now going on in Australia, but this is not a new subject or problem and a little library research would show any who care to look just how much has been done by both science and beekeepers, including much respected nutrition work done in Australia. ttul, the OLd Drone (c) Permission is granted to freely copy this document in any form, or to print for any use. (w)Opinions are not necessarily facts. Use at own risk. --- ~ QMPro 1.53 ~ http://gears.tucson.ars.ag.gov/beecam/beecam.html ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 26 Apr 1997 04:35:29 UT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Garry Libby Subject: Plastic supers Hello All, A while back some discussion began on plastic equipment,but did not go very far.It seems there would be a demand for such a product,it is successful in Europe.I use Kelly's plastic outer and inner covers,as well as their plastic bottom boards,and I really like them.I would be interested in obtaining brood boxes and supers of the same material.Any comment? Thanks, Garry Libby,Boston,MA USA ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 27 Apr 1997 01:05:46 -0700 Reply-To: mwr@hotcity.com Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Michael Reddell Subject: [Fwd: H*LP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!] Laying workers?? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Aaron Wolfenbarger wrote: > > H*lp!!!!!!!! I just came in from checking the hive and there is a LOT of bad > news. There is no queen no brood and no swarm cells.All cells that have > anything in them have nectar,pollen or drones.(all of which is very few.) I > need some help BAD!!!!!!! I don't know what to do. Please reply fast!!!! This could be a laying worker problem if the drone brood is not all capped. If the colony is hopelessly queenless for a period of time, some workers will develop ovaries and start to lay. The symptoms are 1) no queen 2) no brood except scattered drone brood in all stages of development 3) LOTS of honey in the brood chamber and elsewhere 4) possibly some poorly formed queen cells (with drone larvae in them!!) 5) eggs layed at odd angles or two in a cell. There can be a substantial amount of drone brood, but it's undersized, and peppered across the frames in a pathetic pattern. Not a pretty picture at all!! If this turns out to be a laying worker situation, DO NOT try to introduce a queen. It never seems to work, no matter how careful you are. The problem is that the colony thinks the laying workers are queens and will not accept your new queen. The only method I know of that works most of the time is this: Set the hive off to the side of its usual location and put another hive with at least 5 frames of brood in all stages and with a strong laying queen in its place. Then shake and brush ALL the bees from the laying worker hive off the frames onto the ground directly in front of the queenright hive. I usually spray them lightly with a thin sugar syrup also. This thoroughly disorients the laying workers and when they enter the queenright hive they apparently forget their bad habits. As you empty the boxes that contained the LW colony, put them on top of the queenright colony above the excluder to ensure that there's enough room for the bees clustering on the ground in front of the hive. The drone brood will hatch out about the time the honey is capped in these boxes and you can then extract it and recover the brood boxes. When you extract the frames most of the LW drone cells are recovered as worker cells since LW drones are usually undersized, having been reared in worker cells that are extended past the usual worker depth. When I find a queenless hive that shows signs of laying workers, I perform this procedure immediately since all the bees are getting old and time is short to save them. I have encountered this 3 times, and so far it has worked every time. Laying workers are a major pain, but there is a silver lining to even this problem: a laying worker hive usually makes a lot of honey since there is almost no brood in the hive. By the way, I've never tried this except in a strong honey flow, and I doubt that the queenright hive would accept the bees from the LW hive otherwise. Michael Reddell mwr@hotcity.com http://www.hotcity.com/~mwr ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 27 Apr 1997 10:27:10 +0200 Reply-To: jtemp@xs4all.nl Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jan Tempelman Organization: Home Subject: Re: varroa fight3 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-2 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Barry Birkey wrote: > > Jan Tempelman wrote: > > > > our bee list is a litle bit of consciousness > > > 95% of the varroa mite out > > > ask for discussion > > > > http://www.xs4all.nl/~jtemp.dronemethod.html > > This should be: http://www.xs4all.nl/~jtemp/dronemethod.html > > - Barry > > -- > Barry Birkey > West Chicago, Illinois USA > barry@birkey.com > http://www.birkey.com -- -------------------------------------------------------- Jan Tempelman / Ineke Drabbe | EMAIL:jtemp@xs4all.nl Sterremos 16 3069 AS Rotterdam, The Netherlands Tel/Fax (SOMETIMES) XX 31 (0)10-4569412 homepage webside: http://www.xs4all.nl/~jtemp/index2.html webside van het AmbrosiusGilde: http://www.xs4all.nl/~jtemp/ambro_index.html webside for NECTAR: http://www.xs4all.nl/~jtemp/nectar_index.html with some pages in english on solitary bees -------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 27 Apr 1997 10:57:43 +0200 Reply-To: jtemp@xs4all.nl Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jan Tempelman Organization: Home Subject: war on the varroa MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-2 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I don't know what is going on, but here is the site http://www.xs4all.nl/~jtemp/dronemethod.html -- -------------------------------------------------------- Jan Tempelman / Ineke Drabbe | EMAIL:jtemp@xs4all.nl Sterremos 16 3069 AS Rotterdam, The Netherlands Tel/Fax (SOMETIMES) XX 31 (0)10-4569412 homepage webside: http://www.xs4all.nl/~jtemp/index2.html webside van het AmbrosiusGilde: http://www.xs4all.nl/~jtemp/ambro_index.html webside for NECTAR: http://www.xs4all.nl/~jtemp/nectar_index.html with some pages in english on solitary bees -------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 27 Apr 1997 08:06:55 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Aaron Wolfenbarger Subject: Thanks Hi everyone thanks for telling me on your alls mail volume. I sent that message and got 20 or so messages besides everyone's responses the next day so I don't know what the deal was. Well, Live Long and Pollinate! Aaron Clinton,TN 1st year 2 hives ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 27 Apr 1997 08:03:09 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: David Verville Subject: Re: Double Queening MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Brian R Tucker wrote: > > So people asked for the method I used in double queening my hive here goes. > > 1. I took my strongest overwintered hive ( it was over wintered in 2 > hive bodies) and about 3 weeks ago I split all the bood and bees evenly ( or > as evenly as posible) in 2 hive bodies.I then took an inner cover that was > notched for an enterence and placed it on top of the hive body with the old > queen in it (I also added a hive body to that section so the old queen had > room to lay in 2 hive bodies). So I got 2 hive bodies with the old queen > laying in them an inner cover with a notch for an entrance for the bees at > the top and anouther hive body. I covered the hole in the inner cover to keep > the bees seperate. I then added a new queen to the hive body that was > queenless. > > 2. A few days later I checked to see if the new queen was out. She wasn't > so I released her and let her go at it. 3 days later checked to make sure she > was laying and everything was good so far. > > 3. About a week and a half after I intoduced the new queen to the queenless > hive body I was ready to join them and the original colony back together. I > got a wood bound queen excluder and notched an entrance on one side. I > sprayed the bees with vanilla water to confuse the scent alittle put the > excluder over the original collony that housed the old queen and then put the > hive body with the new queen over the excluder.( need to make sure that there > is an entrance for the top or drones can't get out) > 4. 2 days ago I added a secound hive body for the new queen. So my collony > is now 4 hive bodies tall 3 of which are almost full of brood and a fourth > that is starting to get filled. And I haven't even put honey supers on yet. > > People say just before the end of the honeyflow to remove the excluder and > let the queens fight it out but I am going to just split this hive during the > fall flow and try the same next year. > > Brian tucker > POLO MO Right now, you have a two queen colony. AND THE POTENTIAL FOR A HUGH SWARM! On top of the first(bottom queen) put a queen excluder and two honey supers, then another queen excluder, the second queen brood boxes, a third excluder and at least 4 honey supers. Queens more than a year old should be watched for signs of swarming. Since your year old is at the very bottom, it might be difficult. If all goes well and I hope it does, be ready and watch the honey supers as they will fill EXTREMELY fast. Yeilds of two to three hundred pounds are common. Humugious swarms though. (15-20 pounders!!) Dave Verville . (unis spoken here) ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 27 Apr 1997 09:11:48 -0600 Reply-To: Charles Harper Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Charles Harper Subject: Re: Plastic supers MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Sat, 26 Apr 1997 04:35:29 UT, Garry Libby wrote: >Hello All, > A while back some discussion began on plastic equipment,but did not >go very far.It seems there would be a demand for such a product,it is >successful in Europe.I use Kelly's plastic outer and inner covers,as well as >their plastic bottom boards,and I really like them.I would be interested in >obtaining brood boxes and supers of the same material.Any comment? Thanks, >Garry Libby,Boston,MA USA > Kelly made a Plastic box at one time or another. The box has a major drawback the ends where the frames rest warped toward the frames after a while and bees would glue the frames on the endbars making them very hard to remove. I have some still in my operation and i am culling them out for that reason. Charles Harper Harper's Honey farm 1000 + Colonies ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 27 Apr 1997 17:28:52 +0200 Reply-To: jtemp@xs4all.nl Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jan Tempelman Organization: Home Subject: Re: Test for Varroa mite? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-2 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Brett D Bannon wrote: > > I had been told of a simple test for varroa that involved putting a > number of bees in a glass jar, spraying with ether (starting fluid for > diesel engines) and shaking. If varroa were to be found they would be > seen sticking on the sides of the glass jar. Is this a valid way for a > definite test to see if your hives have these "critters"? How many bees > do you need to sacrifice? Also do you use older foraging bees from the > front of the hive or would it be better to use young ones still working > on the brood comb? > > Brett D. Bannon > bbannon@juno.com The number of mites in a hive (during brood season) can be found by counting them on the bottom sheet in one day (24 hour ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 27 Apr 1997 17:32:53 +0200 Reply-To: jtemp@xs4all.nl Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jan Tempelman Organization: Home Subject: list mistakes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-2 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit whats happend with it appears ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 27 Apr 1997 12:09:44 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ed Levi Subject: Re: Test for Varroa mite? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >I had been told of a simple test for varroa that involved putting a >number of bees in a glass jar, spraying with ether (starting fluid for >diesel engines) and shaking. If varroa were to be found they would be >seen sticking on the sides of the glass jar. Is this a valid way for a >definite test to see if your hives have these "critters"? How many bees >do you need to sacrifice? Also do you use older foraging bees from the >front of the hive or would it be better to use young ones still working >on the brood comb? > >Brett D. Bannon >bbannon@juno.com Yes, it's a fairly good test. 200 - 300 bees should used, not too much ether and shake for 1 to 2 minutes and then slowly roll. Bees should be collected from brood area as Vj will hitch hike on nurse bees the most so as to prepare to re-enter another brood cell. If done in a consistant manner, this test can be used to calculate mite-load levels and therefore urgency of treatment. To do this one must "judge" colony population, percentage of bees used in test and be mindfull that 20% mites are "exposed" (not hidden in brood) at any given time. Example: 300 bees in test of a colony having 60,000 bees and showing 5 mites in test would indicate a mite load of 5,000 mites. That's 5 X5 = 25 (for the 20% factor) multiplied by 200 (because 300 is 1/200th of the total population) = 5000. This is probably biased a little as the sample is taken from nurse bees and not the general population but, if used consistantly, it should give a fairly clear picture of mite load. Hope this was helpful, Ed Levi ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 27 Apr 1997 15:49:29 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: James R Hartney Subject: For starters After monitoring the Bee-List for a few weeks and much negotiating with my wife, I've decided to go ahead and order a starter kit and give this beekeeping thing a go. My wife is convinced that I'll be killed by a swarm of killer bees so I made sure my insurance was current for her! I live in Northern calif about 20 miles north of SFRAN in a rural unincorporated area. We have 1/2 acre creekside, and I've located an isolated area near the creek away from the house -- an area much frequented by deer, skunks, and racoons, but no bears. Other than being receptive to any ideas/suggestions, I have 2 basic questions: 1) Where should I get my bees (I read something earlier about bees from somewhere in Texas being disease free and healthier than most)? 2) Spring is in full bloom here -- is it too late in the year? FYI winter here rarely gets to freezing and summer temps can reach 100 (very dry, no summer rains). Thanks, Jim Hartney Martinez, CA ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 27 Apr 1997 23:22:09 +0200 Reply-To: jtemp@xs4all.nl Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jan Tempelman Organization: Home Subject: Re: For starters MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-2 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit James R Hartney wrote: > > After monitoring the Bee-List for a few weeks and much negotiating with my > wife, I've decided to go ahead and order a starter kit and give this > beekeeping thing a go. My wife is convinced that I'll be killed by a swarm of > killer bees so I made sure my insurance was current for her! > > I live in Northern calif about 20 miles north of SFRAN in a rural > unincorporated area. We have 1/2 acre creekside, and I've located an isolated > area near the creek away from the house -- an area much frequented by deer, > skunks, and racoons, but no bears. > > Thanks, Jim Hartney > Martinez, CA I'm jealous ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 27 Apr 1997 23:27:19 +0200 Reply-To: jtemp@xs4all.nl Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jan Tempelman Organization: Home Subject: varroa and my site MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-2 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit the site is http://www.xs4all.nl/~jtemp/dronemethod.html -- -------------------------------------------------------- Jan Tempelman / Ineke Drabbe | EMAIL:jtemp@xs4all.nl Sterremos 16 3069 AS Rotterdam, The Netherlands Tel/Fax (SOMETIMES) XX 31 (0)10-4569412 homepage webside: http://www.xs4all.nl/~jtemp/index2.html webside van het AmbrosiusGilde: http://www.xs4all.nl/~jtemp/ambro_index.html webside for NECTAR: http://www.xs4all.nl/~jtemp/nectar_index.html with some pages in english on solitary bees -------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 27 Apr 1997 23:31:46 +0200 Reply-To: jtemp@xs4all.nl Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jan Tempelman Organization: Home Subject: david's adres MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-2 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Davis Couper can you give my your right email adres rwv5654@iol.ie it not working -- -------------------------------------------------------- Jan Tempelman / Ineke Drabbe | EMAIL:jtemp@xs4all.nl Sterremos 16 3069 AS Rotterdam, The Netherlands Tel/Fax (SOMETIMES) XX 31 (0)10-4569412 homepage webside: http://www.xs4all.nl/~jtemp/index2.html webside van het AmbrosiusGilde: http://www.xs4all.nl/~jtemp/ambro_index.html webside for NECTAR: http://www.xs4all.nl/~jtemp/nectar_index.html with some pages in english on solitary bees -------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 27 Apr 1997 21:58:17 +0000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Rick Grossman Subject: Honey and Pollen Bound Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I have a question regarding cause and possible cures for one hive that seems to have a number of bad traits. The main one is that this hive both last year and this year seems to become honey and to a lesser extent pollen bound in the two standard deep brood chambers and does not like to store honey in the honey supers. I have the honey supers above a queen excluder. The honey supers are already drawn from previous years use. This hive is also my main nasty one. A couple of bees from the hive will follow me for hours after they are worked. Is this problem due to hive management or is this a biological trait that comes from the queen? This hive made it thru the winter really well, have built up this spring really well (within the limits that the honey and pollen storage will allow), so I hate to just requeen without understanding more of the causes for this behavior. Any suggestions or advice. This is just one of ten hives. I am in the Portland, Oregon area. Rick Grossman bmn@worldnet.att.net ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 27 Apr 1997 20:46:57 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Janice Green Subject: Re: READ THIS Aaron, Your instructions for renewing Bee-L say to use the command RENEW BEE-L but my correspondence was rejected twice. Dave told me I should use the command line CONFIRM BEE-L so I tried it and it worked. You need to correct your post on Best-of-Bee so others won't have the same problem with no clue as to what is wrong. Janice ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 27 Apr 1997 21:34:02 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "William A. Simmons" Subject: Re: H*LP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You need to requeen, fast! This before you get laying workers, and then have a doomed hive. If that does happen, you only hope is to divide the bees among several colonies. Laying workers will not accept a new queen. Bill (WillSimm42@aol.com) ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 27 Apr 1997 21:58:32 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "William A. Simmons" Subject: Re: For starters You live in a very good area for beekeeping. Some of the major bee suppliers are in your neck of the woods in California. Check the adds in American Bee Journal or Bee Culture. No it is not too late to start a hive. It will build up well to winter and will bring in surplus honey next Spring if all goes well. Be sure to medicate though, or you are insuring disaster. Bill (WillSimm42@aol.com) ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 27 Apr 1997 22:04:19 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: David Green Subject: Re: Honey and Pollen Bound In a message dated 97-04-27 17:59:25 EDT, bmn@worldnet.att.net (Rick Grossman) writes: << I have a question regarding cause and possible cures for one hive that seems to have a number of bad traits. The main one is that this hive both last year and this year seems to become honey and to a lesser extent pollen bound in the two standard deep brood chambers and does not like to store honey in the honey supers. I have the honey supers above a queen excluder. The honey supers are already drawn from previous years use. This hive is also my main nasty one. A couple of bees from the hive will follow me for hours after they are worked. Is this problem due to hive management or is this a biological trait that comes from the queen? >> Any colony that becomes crowded can become ugly, even if they are not genetically predisposed. Try moving three or four frames above the excluder. If they have some brood, so much the better. That will get the bees working up there. If some of the brood is drone brood, make sure they have an upper entrance. Most of my supers already have upper entrance(s) ;<) , but you can offset one of the supers a half inch if needed. This will also give the queen laying space, and slow down (tho not prevent) the swarm urge. Pollinator@aol.com Dave Green, PO Box 1200, Hemingway, SC 29554 (Dave & Jan's Pollination Service, Pot o'Gold Honey Co.) Pollination for lay people, students, teachers ....Of bees, beekeepers, and food http://users.aol.com/queenbjan/primbees.htm Pollination for the pros - those involved in doing it: Practical Pollination Home Page Dave & Janice Green http://users.aol.com/pollinator/polpage1.html Jan's Sweetness and Light Varietal Honeys and Gift Sets http://users.aol.com/SweetnessL/sweetlit.htm ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 27 Apr 1997 16:42:00 GMT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Andy Nachbaur Organization: WILD BEE'S BBS (209) 826-8107 LOS BANOS, CA Subject: Re: Terramycin question/help needed KLE>From: krengel lawrence e >Date: Sat, 26 Apr 1997 21:11:47 -0500 >Subject: Re: Terramycin question/help needed KLE>I would wonder why you would use terramycin with your new bees... if you >are installing a package. Terramycin controls foul brood - I think - and >in the package there is no brood. EFB, at one time was said to have destroyed ALL the bees in the US. Now I don't know if this included the wild one's, but in any case EFB can be a real problem. To get good control of EFB and all the little bugs that cause it the TM should be in the hive as early as you can get it and before broodrearing starts would come closer to 100% control then at any other time. Once you have EFB causing damage to the brood that brood is lost and the best you can do is have the next cycle healthy if you use TM. If it is allowed to take it's natural course the loss will not be 100% of all hives, (sometimes close to it in small bee yards), but it will take out many queens and some will not be replaced or replaced with dogs and the hives will require a lot of work to get them back in shape for any honey flow. ttul, the OLd Drone (c) Permission is granted to freely copy this document in any form, or to print for any use. (w)Opinions are not necessarily facts. Use at own risk. --- ~ QMPro 1.53 ~ http://gears.tucson.ars.ag.gov/beecam/beecam.html ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 27 Apr 1997 22:29:21 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ted Fischer Subject: Re: Honey straws MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit John Justin Spaulding III wrote: > > Anyone have recc. on reliquifying Honey Straws. > > I haave a couple 100 and > they are starting to crystalize. > I figured if I heated them they would burst. > Thanks for your help. You can easily reliquify them by placing them in warm (not boiling) water, just as you would do for jars. I have never had trouble with the straws (Honeystix) bursting. Ted Fischer Dexter, Michigan USA ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 27 Apr 1997 22:48:05 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Robert Barnett Organization: DNA Subject: Re: Terramycin question/comment MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit krengel lawrence wrote: > > I would wonder why you would use terramycin with your new bees... if you > are installing a package. Terramycin controls foul brood - I think - and > in the package there is no brood. My answer to this query is that while there is no brood, the bees in the package may carry foul brood *spores*; it is true that to initiate the disease a lot of spores are required. Also, if one is installing on older brood comb, it is possible that the comb may contain the spores, perhaps unknown to the beekeeper. Prophylactic treatment for foul brood is easy, quick,and cheap with terramycin, and I personally choose to treat rather than gamble! Robert Barnett.....Birmingham, AL > > On the other hand, Bob Cox... the Iowa State Apiarist... suggests using > Fumidil B which is used to control nosema which may be a problem due to > the stress of shipping. > > Just a thought. > > Larry Krengel > Marengo, Illinois USA ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 27 Apr 1997 23:04:44 -0600 Reply-To: allend@internode.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Allen Dick Organization: The Beekeepers Subject: Repost: How to Reduce Your Email In-Reply-To: <13485492501636@systronix.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT For those who wish to reduce email flow from BEE-L, yet still receive BEE-L, there are several options: 1. One is to change the subscription option to BEE-L to DIGEST by sending email to LISTSERV@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU saying SET BEE-L DIGEST 2. The other option is to send email to LISTSERV@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU saying SET BEE-L NOMAIL, and at the same time sending email to HoneyBee@systronix.net, saying JOIN BESTOFBEE you@whatever.com (where 'you@whatever.com' is your the email address to which you want the list to be sent). The first option -- digest -- will get you only one message per day from BEE-L, with *all* the day's messages in it. The second option -- subscribing to Best of Bee -- will bring you only selected and edited posts from BEE-L, a reduction of 10 to 90% (about 90% in recent days). This option is best suited to experienced or professional beekeepers who wish to avoid very basic discussions and chatter, but still track what is happening on BEE-L. There are currently 199 subscribers to Best of Bee. Best of Bee is also available in digest form by sending email to HoneyBee@systronix.net, saying DIGEST BESTOFBEE you@whatever.com For more information, send email to bees@systronix.net, saying SEND BESTBEE in the subject line. You will receive a text file in return. For those who want to know the selection and editorial policies of Best of Bee, send email to bees@systronix.net, saying SEND CRITERIA in the subject line. --- I normally acknowledge all email received. If you recently sent me important email, please be aware that I lost most email (unread) th is last week as well as some messages to which I intended to reply. If you were expecting a response from me and haven't received it, please send another copy of your message. TIA ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 27 Apr 1997 22:39:53 -0700 Reply-To: mwr@hotcity.com Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Michael Reddell Subject: [Fwd: Re: H*LP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit William A. Simmons wrote: > > You need to requeen, fast! This before you get laying workers, and then have > a doomed hive. If that does happen, you only hope is to divide the bees > among several colonies. Laying workers will not accept a new queen. Bill > (WillSimm42@aol.com) Laying workers are not any fun but there is a way to save the colony. What you have to realize is that you are saving an aging work force rather than a full functioning colony. If you do nothing they will make lots of honey for a week or two and then die off. I wrote the following yesterday but my ISP choked on it for some reason and sent it back undeliverable, so here goes again: ------------- This could be a laying worker problem if the drone brood is not all capped. If the colony is hopelessly queenless for a period of time, some workers will develop ovaries and start to lay. The symptoms are 1) no queen 2) no brood except scattered drone brood in all stages of development 3) LOTS of honey in the brood chamber and elsewhere 4) possibly some poorly formed queen cells (with drone larvae in them!!) 5) eggs layed at odd angles or two in a cell. There can be a substantial amount of drone brood, but it's undersized, and peppered across the frames in a pathetic pattern. Not a pretty picture at all!! If this turns out to be a laying worker situation, DO NOT try to introduce a queen. It never seems to work, no matter how careful you are. Apparently the colony thinks the laying workers are queens and will not accept your new queen. The only method I know of that works most of the time is this: Set the hive off to the side of its usual location and put another hive with at least 5 frames of brood in all stages and with a strong laying queen in its place. Then shake and brush ALL the bees from the laying worker hive off the frames onto the ground directly in front of the queenright hive. I usually spray them lightly with a thin sugar syrup also. This thoroughly disorients the laying workers and when they enter the queenright hive they apparently forget their bad habits. As you empty the boxes that contained the LW colony, put them on top of the queenright colony above the excluder to ensure that there's enough room for the bees clustering on the ground in front of the hive. The drone brood will hatch out about the time the honey is capped in these boxes and you can then extract it and recover the brood boxes. When you extract the frames most of the LW drone cells are recovered as worker cells since LW drones are usually undersized, having been reared in worker cells that are extended past the usual worker depth. When I find a queenless hive that shows signs of laying workers, I perform this procedure immediately since all the bees are getting old and time is short to save them. I have encountered this 3 times, and so far it has worked every time. Laying workers are a major pain, but there is a silver lining to even this problem: a laying worker hive usually makes a lot of honey since there is almost no brood in the hive. By the way, I've never tried this except in a strong honey flow, and I doubt that the queenright hive would accept the bees from the LW hive otherwise. Michael Reddell mwr@hotcity.com http://www.hotcity.com/~mwr ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Apr 1997 09:52:08 +0100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Matysek Miroslav, Ing." Subject: Re: Help on Amitraz/Taktik for Bees > (1) A beefriend wants to know how to use the subject-line > chemicals to control T- and V-mites in honeybees. > Specifically, how does one cut the material in water > and how is the resultant applied? > I repeat: this query is NOT mine but posed by a friend. > Appendix: The water emulsion of Taktic - 2 drops on 0,5 l water; don't use metallic dishes and sprayeres; 0,25 - 0,5 l the emulsion for colony, according to the colony size; always use a new emulsion, no older than 10 hours. Spray the colony when the outdoor temperature is above +2 C and when the bees are not flying. The research bee institute in the Czech republic send the medicaments via mail even to foreign countries. MM +----------------------------------------------------------+ |Miroslav Matysek | |matysek@zlin.vutbr.cz | |Technical University in Brno | |Faculty of Technology in Zlin | |Department of automatic control | |762 72 Zlin, Czech republic tel., fax: +420 67 721 1521| +----------------------------------------------------------+ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Apr 1997 09:12:10 +400 Reply-To: dgoodwin@yrhosp.ns.ca Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Dan Goodwin Organization: Yarmouth Hospital Subject: Honey straw equipment ? Hi Where can you buy the equipment to fill the honey straws ? Is it very expensive ? What do the straws sell for ? -- Dan Goodwin Program Manager Information Services Western Regional Health Board Yarmouth, N.S. dgoodwin@yrhosp.ns.ca ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Apr 1997 08:14:29 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Aaron Morris Subject: Admin Adds to the confusion MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Good morning all, it was a great weekend for makin' splits! I was greeted this morning by volumes of mail informiong that RENEW is an unknown command to LISTSERV. Yup, it is! Instructions were correct (send the command to LISTSERV@cnsibm.albany.edu) but the command was wrong. The proper command is CONFIRM BEE-L. So, to continue your subscription to BEE-L you must send a single line of mail to: LISTSERV@cnsibm.albany.edu and the single line of mail should read: CONFIRM BEE-L Apologies for my error, sorry to add to the confusion. Now I must go wash the egg off my face :) Aaron Morris - thinking this is a bad way to start off the week! ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Apr 1997 09:54:12 EDT Reply-To: twelsh@evbhort.uoguelph.ca Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Tillie Welsh Organization: Environ. Biology & Horticulture Bee-l nomail ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Apr 1997 09:03:08 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Dale Q. Marmaduke" Subject: Adding Second hive body...above or below? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII I have the basic starter kit for bee keeping, one hive body. I have ordered a second hive body and the suppers. Where does the second hive body go? Above or below the current hive body? Or mix the frames? The bees have been in the hive for three weeks. Do I always have to buy foundation for new frames...or can let the bees make their own? Thanks for any advise. Dale Marmaduke dmarmad@iupui.edu Indianapolis, IN ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Apr 1997 08:30:35 -0600 Reply-To: allend@internode.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Allen Dick Organization: The Beekeepers Subject: Spring Work MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT You can see what we are actually doing these days if you point your browser at http://www.internode.net/Honeybee/spring.htm Warning: It is pretty graphics intensive, with 8 photos, so it may take a few minutes to load completely. Allen I normally acknowledge all email received. If you recently sent me important email, please be aware that I lost most email (unread) this last week as well as some messages to which I intended to reply. If you were expecting a response from me and haven't received it, please send another copy of your message. TIA. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Apr 1997 09:53:52 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: aarcher Subject: New Packages treatment for ? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I would appreciate opposing opinions on the treatment and/or lack of treatment for colonies. It seems most of the posts I've read so far recommend routine treating with both Fumadil-B, and TM for EFB, AFB, and Nosema (and most appear to agree that Apistan must also be used for mite control- Here at least there seems to be some "natural" treatments being offered for mite control, but I don't see much in the way of alternatives where the other bee diseases are concerned).. What are the consequences of such treatments? (and from the opposing side) What are the consequences of not treating? Opinions welcomed in addition to "facts". I guess I'm trying to avoid honey and wax contamination in even the slightest way. However, I don't want to lose my two colonies for any reason, and frankly can't afford to make a serious error by doing or not doing what is being recommended. I would appreciate a discussion (either to the group or to me personally) about what we can do to keep both our bees healthy and our products, wax and honey, contaminate free. 6 days as a rookie beekeeper with 2 very active hives. One Lang and one TBH. The bees in the Lang (where the queen was accidentally released immediately) are bringing in lots of pollen with their nectar gathering. The TBH (where the bees are eating the candy to release the Queen) are more active, but I have not seen any pollen yet. Does this imply that the one queen is laying eggs and has developing larvae to feed, whereas the other has not gotten that far along due to having to be released by the slow method? ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Apr 1997 13:03:53 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: PondSite Subject: Bee Removal MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ---------- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I have been reading all the threads abour bee removal lately, and have > tried some of the methods. The > > sucess rate is a little slow in coming though. The outside type is really > good, but the house removal, > > when the bees are in a wall has not worked yet. I need a little help with > this one. The bees are in a > > wall. Some children have thrown rocks and sticks at the wall, making > several holes in it. Last year > > the owner of the property tried to ki;ll the bees by spraying them with an > insecticide. The bees are back. > > The bees are spread two wide and about four feet up the inside the wall. > There are bees at each of the > > 6 or 7 entrance holes.Several houses are close by with children in each. > THE BEES MUST GO> > > I possibly could cut the wall section out, but feel the honey may be > contaiminated. The chances of finding > > the Queen in that maze from the wall would be pure luck. The funnel method > won't work because of the > > multiple entrances. Some are not accessible to plug up, because the bees > have built comb all over > > them. Ive heard that the hive instinct is such that the bees will return > from foraging and take up again > > even after the bees have been. Is there something that will kill the bees > like soap and water in a sprayer. > > or a chemical that will get all the bees. They are a hazard to the area. > HELP if you can please > > WALT 3 years, 6 hives S.C. still learning from the bees. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Apr 1997 14:21:02 -0700 Reply-To: mister-t@clinic.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Bill Truesdell Subject: Re: New Packages treatment for ? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit If you are looking for "natural" treatments for mite control, anything you put into a hive that the bees would not normally put in there is "unnatural". And if you get into the "organic" vrs "man-made" argument, standby. Your mailbox will overflow but it makes for fun reading. I think the best technique for disease and mite control is the Doctor's pledge to "Do no harm". Which means that the treatment should have been demonstrated to be effective for the problem and as benign as possible to the bees. The ones you spoke of, Fumidil, TM, and Apistan as well as grease patties, fit that definition when used properly. A lot of the other "natural" techniques are still in the prove-it stage. They may work, but do you want to put your few hives at risk on hope. I stay with the tried and true and all my hives made it through this winter and only lost one hive the prior winter when many in Maine lost most of their hives. Bill Truesdell Bath, ME ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Apr 1997 14:20:57 -0400 Reply-To: gwalter@massmed.org Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Gert-Paul Walter Subject: Re: Pollen patties MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Stan Sandler commented on old pollen turning to cement. I have successfully reused the ones bees no longer used the previous year by freezing them till the following spring, then putting them in a glass bowl with 1/2" water and putting them into the microwave for a few minutes. When heated they absorb water and get manageable, and seem to work as well as new patties. Gert Walter > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Apr 1997 14:50:49 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ted Wout Subject: Re: Bee Removal Walt wrote: >> I have been reading all the threads abour bee removal lately, and have tried some of the methods. The sucess rate is a little slow in coming though. The outside type is really good, but the house removal, when the bees are in a wall has not worked yet. I need a little help with this one. The bees are in a wall. Some children have thrown rocks and sticks at the wall, making several holes in it. Last year the owner of the property tried to ki;ll the bees by spraying them with an insecticide. The bees are back. The bees are spread two wide and about four feet up the inside the wall. There are bees at each of the 6 or 7 entrance holes. Several houses are close by with children in each. THE BEES MUST GO. I possibly could cut the wall section out, but feel the honey may be contaiminated. The chances of finding the Queen in that maze from the wall would be pure luck. The funnel method won't work because of the multiple entrances. Some are not accessible to plug up, because the bees have built comb all over them. Ive heard that the hive instinct is such that the bees will return from foraging and take up again even after the bees have been. Is there something that will kill the bees like soap and water in a sprayer. or a chemical that will get all the bees. They are a hazard to the area. << Why can't you use caulk to plug up all but one entrance and then use the screen cone method? If comb is in the way, just use a hive tool to remove it. Also, if these bees are this tenacious, they might be worth trying to find the queen for. I'd hate to see the bees killed out when they could be saved (and making you honey!) and hived but I haven't seen the situation. If nothing else, it would be a great adventure. This is the kind of thing I just can't pass up. Wish I had this situation near me. I'd take it on. Of course, I've got one house removal in progress and one log full of bees in my backyard. I wish my job wasn't keeping me away from my hobby so much. :) Ted Wout Red Oak, TX ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Apr 1997 21:14:56 +-200 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?J=F8rn_Johanesson?= Subject: Help me please French spoken beekeeper! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable For My Apimondia Project I need help! The French Language file is done by a Danish translator and need check = and=20 follow up with some new items., former hardcoded in the software as = English. I also need if someone would be so kind to translate the English manual = into French. The helpfile also if possible, it is for now only in Danish = and the pollen data helpfile in English. The language file can be edited in a simple text editor, and the manual = and helpfile is written in winword. anybody out there that can help with this project?? I cannot involve money into it but are willing to offer the kind person = a full and free software with full updates for a duration of two years. Best regards Jorn Johanesson apimo@post4.tele.dk ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Apr 1997 23:11:24 +0000 Reply-To: ddc1@www.scranton.com Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Dave D. Cawley" Organization: Internet Cafe Web Development group Subject: Re: Another question about collecting Pollen Comments: To: "Carlson@netins.net" In-Reply-To: <33600977.3093@netins.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT > From: "Carlson@netins.net" > I am new and this may be a silly question but ...along the same lines.. > what is to stop the bee droppings (poop) from dropping into a pollen > basket? Simple...bees don't go inside the hive unless they are sick, i.e. disentary(sp) and their anus is not really very close to their legs on the anatomy side. ****************************************************************************** Dave D. Cawley | Where a social revolution is pending and, The Internet Cafe | for whatever reason, is not accomplished, Scranton, PA | reaction is the alternative. (717) 344-1969 | dave@scranton.com | -Daniel De Leon ****************************************************************************** URL => http://www.scranton.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 26 Apr 1997 07:59:05 -0400 Reply-To: dronebee@pilot.infi.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Dr. Pedro Rodriguez" Organization: InfiNet Subject: Varroa mites MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I am posting this message to Bee-L in an effort to locate Dr. Philip Earle in Northern Ireland. I have had several pieces of e-mail from Dr. Earle in the past but somehow lost his e-mail address. I don't seem to be able to reach him with the one now have. Shopuld anyone on this list-serv know the good Dr. or his address, I would appreciate getting his address or passing this message on to him. Thanks for the assistance. Dear Dr. Earle: I am ready to publish my work on the treatment of Varroa mites. However before I do, I would like to include a reference that you once sent me. Somehow I have misplaced it. Should you receive this message, please write to me. Sincerely. Pedro ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Apr 1997 17:06:45 +0000 Reply-To: jdalexa@widtech.com Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: John Alexander Subject: On-line Chat MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Greetings all As a service to the Honey Bee community, we've set up a real-time chat page for the discussion of Bee-L related topics. This service is free of charge and is for non-commercial use only. Point your browser at: http://www.widtech.com/beechat/ To use the service, you will have to be running a 32 bit OS (Win95/NT, UNIX, OS/2) and a java enabled browser (i.e. Netscape, Internet Explorer). Note: AOL subscribers will not be able to use this service due to a problem with AOL. Watch the BeeChat home page for additional information. John Alexander ----------------------------------------------- Web Innovation and Design Technology Let Our WWW Design Team Put You on the Internet http://www.widtech.com/ support@widtech.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Apr 1997 18:04:10 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Thomas W. Hoyt" Subject: Re: Adding Second hive body...above or below? In a message dated 97-04-28 11:11:00 EDT, you write: << Where does the second hive body go? Above or below the current hive body? Or mix the frames? The bees have been in the hive for three weeks. Do I always have to buy foundation for new frames...or can let the bees make their own? >> I always put the second hive body on top of the first one. You DO have to buy foundation - or the bees will make their own CROSSWAYS or whatever other way that they decide to build at the time. Foundation is essential to being able to manipulate the frames later on. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Apr 1997 19:51:18 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Robert E Neely Subject: Re: Sugar Syrup, Cotton and Fire Ants On Sun, 6 Apr 1997 13:14:15 -0400 Chris Blanchard writes: >Hi All, > >I have received and installed successfully my three hives! WHEW!!! >The >girls are doing great in learning the area. It was amazing while >install >them that they seemed to hover in front of my face as if they were >looking at >me. Very amazing creatures! I have a few newbie questions today : > >1. I put feeder jars on the hives with a 1:1 sugar syrup. How long >should I >continue to feed them? >I would continue to feed intil you see at least two frames of capped honey. >2. How do I get rid of fire ants in my beeyard? >Check with your county agent. There may be some restrictions of what you use due to the closeness of the waterways. (Shrimp breeding grounds) We have to be very careful here in the Charleston area. >3. What flavor of honey (if any) does cotton produce? Or do bees >pollinate >cotton? > > >Thanks in advance! > >Chris Blanchard >Wilmington, NC > Bob Neely Goose Creek, SC neely-bee@juno.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 29 Apr 1997 01:33:05 +0200 Reply-To: patbrenn@mygale.org Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: pb Subject: Re: Help me please French spoken beekeeper! Comments: cc: apimo@post4.tele.dk MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable J=F8rn Johanesson wrote: >=20 > For My Apimondia Project I need help! >=20 > The French Language file is done by a Danish translator and need check = and > follow up with some new items., former hardcoded in the software as Eng= lish. >=20 > I also need if someone would be so kind to translate the English manual= into French. The helpfile also if possible, it is for now only in Danish= and the pollen data helpfile in English. >=20 > The language file can be edited in a simple text editor, and the manual= and helpfile is written in winword. >=20 > anybody out there that can help with this project?? >=20 > I cannot involve money into it but are willing to offer the kind person= a full and free software with full updates for a duration of two years. >=20 > Best regards > Jorn Johanesson >=20 > apimo@post4.tele.dk hello, dear Jorn Johanesson you will not have a lot of people speaking french here. Because french beekeepers don't go a lot to Internet... they are on the hives.... Well if you want i can help you, i'm french, fluent in english and beekeeper. what a big deal isn't it ? Si vous le d=E9sirez je peut donc vous aider =E0 traduire le manuel en fran=E7ais. then in english, if you want i can help you to translate your help file in french. Best regards. Patrick Brenneur. Patbrenn@mygale.org http://mygale.org/01/patbrenn