From LISTSERV@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU Mon Jun 30 09:22:34 1997 Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 09:15:06 -0400 From: "L-Soft list server at University at Albany (1.8c)" To: Adam Finkelstein Subject: File: "BEE-L LOG9705D" ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 04:11:53 GMT Reply-To: mjensen@crl.com Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Mark Jensen Organization: No Junk Mail Subject: Re: SOurces of Burlap In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Tue, 20 May 1997 22:06:56 -0700, "Paul Cronshaw, D.C." wrote: >Burlap seems to be a popular smoker fuel. Are there any other = suggestions >for sources of good burnable Burlap? Coffee bean sacks. Alas, burlap potato sacks seem to have disappeared.=20 -- Mark Jensen Double J Apiaries mjensen@crl.com Los Altos Hills California fax 415 941-3488 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 19:10:56 +0900 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: j h & e mcadam Subject: Re: swarm advice needed Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Paula Franke and Dan'l Sisson wrote re a swarm settling in a blackberry thicket and how to attract this to the hive box. We trap swarms frequently (even if we don't know they have issued). When scout bees go in in search of a new location they are attracted to old brood comb or old frames heavily used by bees. One year the location of choice for several swarms in succession was a cardboard carton in which the frames for repair had been stored. My advice is to place the oldest daggiest brood combs you can find in the hive box and place in clear view of the swarm, in sunlight, preferably with a landmark such as a tree in the vicinity. Then cross your fingers and hope for the best. Placing the hive on something a metre or so high might assist the scout bees to home in. Betty McAdam HOG BAY APIARY Penneshaw, Kangaroo Island j.h. & e. mcadam Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: j h & e mcadam Subject: swarms Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Gert Walter asks if there are external signs that a swarm has issued - I do not know of any. The bees in the swarm are of all ages and there will also be a stock of mature and young bees still remaining in the hive to continue their duties. On the question of what happens when bad weather strikes, when a hive is in swarm mode the bees start a succession of queen cells, maturing at different times, to cover this possibility. The impulse to issue as the swarm is triggered usually the day before the first queen hatches and this queen duly destroys all her unhatched siblings. If the weather is unsuitable, I believe the cell about to hatch is destroyed by the hive and swarming postponed. I would think in some cases the bad weather may nullify the swarming impulse and this would become a supersedure. Betty McAdam HOG BAY APIARY Penneshaw, Kangaroo Island j.h. & e. mcadam Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Allen Dick Organization: The Beekeepers Subject: Emergency Cells MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT A critical reader kindly sent me some questions about several of my (labyrinthine) web pages accessed from http://www.internode.net/Honeybee/spring.htm The question at hand here is specifically regarding http://www.internode.net/Honeybee/Spring/mgmt.htm These pages are works in progress, and there are some minor issues. One in particular is outlined below. On this matter, I must confess I have been parrotting somewhat uncritically what I understand David Eyre and others to have said here, and am at a loss to explain better than I have below. Perhaps there are some subtleties that I am missing, but it appears to me, and to my reader, that breaking down capped cells on the fourth day does not *guarantee* that no older latva will become queen, but merely reduce the odds. What say ye all? > > 2. Page 6 ...If the hive is inspected on the fourth day and any capped > > cells are broken down (to ensure any cells started with older larvae > > are destroyed.) this method is more likely to make an excellent queen. > > Are you adding fresh eggs at this time? > > > >No. The uncapped cells are the ones that should have younger larvae. > > I don't understand this. Why would the bees select older larva for > queens? and wouldn't the younger larva be just as old after breaking > down the cells following the four day period? Assume that the maximum larva age for a good queen cell start is 36 hrs. Dequeen the colony. After some short time the bees start emergency cells over existing worker larvae. Due to the suddeness of the dequeening, some bees may get confused and start cells over any random larva. I have even seen drone larvae used in extreme cases. Since queen cells are capped five days after the larva hatches from an egg, by going on the fourth day after dequeening to destroy capped cells, any cells originally made from larvae over 24 (or so) hours are knocked down. Odds are that, now, at least some of the open cells were started from young larvae. Of course the bees may have continued to make cells from older larvae, but those cells will now be even with or behind the earliest cells made from younger larvae in development and will not be as likely to emerge in time to dominate competition for hive leadership -- unless the balance of these earlier cells fail for some reason -- such as rough handling during the inspection. Before this culling process, the most advanced cells were more certain to have originated from the oldest larvae. The assumption above is that there will be numerous large and well fed cells found at time of inspection. If this is not the case, then this may be a sign that the bees may not be sufficiently motivated or have adequate resources to ensure that *any* of the emergency cells are very good. A factor that would seem to limit this technique is the fact that bees will often wait a day or more before starting cells, in which case there may often be no capped cells on the fourth day. When bees are slower to begin, are they still likely to chose older larvae? Allen ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 06:43:52 -0700 Reply-To: mister-t@clinic.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Bill Truesdell Subject: Smoker Fuel - and other things we do to bees MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >Bob Watson asked about egg cartons to start smokers. Some clarification on the cardboard. The glue between the corregated cardboard was the stuff that caused problems when burned. I doubt if thin, non-glued regular cardboard is any different than paper for starting a smoker and is just fine. I remember recently reading that different fuels were used to knock down varroa and in that study, some fuels, including cardboard did cause problems with bees which surprised the researchers. As in most things we do to our hives in spring and summer, we can inadvertently kill off a few hundred or thousand bees and never know it because of the build-up. I think there are several things, like moldy comb, which the bees deal with but it does kill them. We just do not see it. Which is the reason I asked about cleaning combs of mildew. I have no problem with bees cleaning up extracted frames. That is like your mom letting you lick the frosting from the spoon. But did she have us lick the mildew and mold from bathroom fixtures? I don't even want to think about dysentary. I would be looking for a 1-800 number. Bill Truesdell Bath, ME ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 07:00:26 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "(Thomas) (Cornick)" Subject: Re: Thanks to all, the swarm is back home In a message dated 97-05-22 00:38:04 EDT, you write: << *this swarm had a very distinct aroma of lemons. >> The next time you see lemon balm growing in the garden bruise some and you will find the smell the same as the bees fanning in a swarm. I love catching swarms 2 this season so far in CT. Sometimes putting a frame into a pile of bees in a swarm and scooping them up and into a hive body gets the rest to follow. Sometimes after most of the bees are in the hive body and a cup or two are left on the original cluste smoking them heavily will get them to join the hive body. May all your swarms be head high and gentle ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 20:32:38 +0900 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: j h & e mcadam Subject: Re: $300 for one hive? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Ted Wout writes: > >Wouldn't it be great if we could somehow form a relationship with a bee >house to give members of the list a special discount? Like since there are >over 500 members on the list, wouldn't it be great to get that many >customers if you were in that business? Wouldn't it be great to be a >member of the list and enjoy some savings. I'm sure that we represent a >sizable purchase of bee equipment each year. Wouldn't it be great to flex >our economic muscles and take advantage of that? > I think you may have difficulty extending discounts to beekeepers in Australia, New Zealand, England and other areas of the globe that I notice posting on Bee-L. HOG BAY APIARY Penneshaw, Kangaroo Island j.h. & e. mcadam Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Victor E Sten Subject: Re: Shrews Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Allen wrote: Has anyone first hand or scientific information about the effect of shrews >on wintering bees? > >We had several yards where we had bad wintering and I saw shrews there. >Coincidence? I don't know. > >If they are the culprits, how does one deal with them? >-- >Allen >allend@internode.net >www.internode.net/HoneyBee > Used to have lots of trouble with Pygmy Shrews in the winter. This shrew is rare in most locations but at least in my hobby bee yard it is common. The size of this animal is 2.8 to 4.1 inches in total length with the length of the tail 0.9 to 1.4 inches. The half dozen I have caught have not been longer than 3.5 inches. The range of this animal is most of Canada and the Northeast of USA. The way I found out about them was finding an occasional dead specimen in a dead hive. They do not go for the honey, they go for the bees, making the bees break the cluster which is deadly on a cold winter night, I gather that the shrew occasionally get stung enough to die in the hive. The way I cope with them is by modifying my entr. reducers (which are slats with a cutout 3/8" deep by approx. 4" length) by hammering in 5/8" finishing nails one in each end that touches the ends of the cutout and then one every 3/8 inches in a straight line in the middle of the cutout. The reducer is placed with the opening up. No problems have been noticed with cleansing flights. Actually the opening is free of snow and ice faster than reglar reducers due to the fact that as soon as the sun hits one nail it will collect heat for melting. Had I not found a solution I would have had to move my hives elsewhere which I did not see as an option. Viktor in Hawkesbury, Ontario ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 12:02:55 +0000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: OAKES DAVID W Subject: Smoker fuel MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII To the question of which fuel is best. I don't know but an ol'e beekeeper told me to use dead-rotten wood as it does not produce any toxic fumes and is just like a forest fire(as far as the bee are concerned). This has been working for me and the smoke smell is still there, but it is not tooooo bad.(still need to shower to rid the smoke smell). Dave in Indiana oakes.d@lilly.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 08:49:45 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Gerry Visel Subject: Beekeeping for Scout camp Any Wisconsin beekeepers out there that can help these scouts? Begin forwarded message ---------- From: TheFeet97@aol.com To: visel7@juno.com Subject: Beekeeping for Scout camp Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 19:35:41 -0400 (EDT) Dear Gerry, Thanks for replying. I am just starting beekeeping. I am the director for the ecology conservation site at East Camp of camp Makajawan, which is near Antigo, Wisconsin: Makajawan Scout Reservation W6500 Spring Lake Rd. Pearson, WI 54462 My twin brother, Jesse, is also going to be involved in this program, as he is the director for the ecology area at West Camp Makajawan, across a lake from East Camp. So far, one smoker, an entrance feeder, and two nucs (which we will use as observational hives for the two camps) have been donated. We are hoping to have one or two main hives a little ways off. If you could help in any way with equipment, I would greatly appreciate it (especially with the main hive and protective gear-so as many Scouts as possible can experience it). We wrote nationals concerning the discontinued Scout merit badge, and they have told us that a reply is in the mail (it is a bit much to ask for the whole nation to have the badge available, but perhaps they will allow Makajawan to do it). If you have any neat ideas on how to talk to the Scouts about the bees, or any other wisdom for the bee hive setups, I would love the help (we also have two empty nucs, which we might be able to show the bees creating a new queen?). Could you ask the group from rockford if any would be willing to help out with equipment or if any have wisdom for how I should proceed with this. Thanks for your interest, I'm very excited about this. Sincerely, Michael Foote 847-256-3013 105 Dupee Pl. Wilmette, IL 60091 thefeet97@aol.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 08:38:53 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Greg Hankins Subject: Re: Positioning supers (crisscross?) In-Reply-To: <199705211819_MC2-170B-F74C@compuserve.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >I have one super that has a 1" entrance drilled in it. I bought it that >way from a retired beekeeper. The hive with that super has produced more >honey than any others that I have. Everytime I go to that hive there are >bees fanning for all they are worth from this entrance. The aroma of >drying nectar is overwhelming at this hive, I love that sweet smell. Maybe >there is something to this... Sue Hubbell's "Book of Bees" mentions this kind of "top" entrance. She is working, I believe, in the Ozarks. How far North does this type of thing make sense? I'm in NC close to the SC line. On a similar note, what kind of climate and other considerations would argue for using a single brood box for over-wintering, vs. two deeps or one deep and one medium or shallow super? Greg ______________________________________________________________ Greg Hankins Montgomery Packaging ghankins@ac.net Troy, North Carolina Voice: (910)576-0067 Fax: (910)576-0367 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 May 1997 20:23:14 +0200 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Yngve Pavall Organization: Beenet Sweden Subject: Bees and Noise * Svar pe meddelande i "** B-BEEL.INT" SP> From: Sid Pullinger SP> Subject: Bees and Noise Sid, Thanks for your very interesting article on Bees and Noise! I have never seen or heard anyone doing this, but a friend of mine from the province of Skene i southern Sweden told me about a lady banging tins to "get her" bees. No I will explain for him and his family why this lady acted like this. Thanks again and best wishes from Yngve Pevall with bees on the Aaland Islands in the the Baltic Sea ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 May 1997 16:48:13 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Adrian Wenner Subject: Re: What is a hobby beekeeper Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Whitney Cranshaw asked: >The term hobby beekeeper is used all the time, but what does it mean? > >The reason for my question is that a local beekeeper is being asked to move >his hives because because this is considered to be an agricultural >enterprise prohibited within city limits. His defense is that he is only a >hobby beekeeper and therefore exempt. But this needs to be better defined. > >Is there limit to the number of hives that determines a hobby beekeeper? >Does selling for profit define if a beekeeper is a hobbyist or not? Many communities permit one or two hives within the city limits, since the output could obviously not provide any appreciable income. Also, that many hives --- properly placed --- would be no threat to nearby citizens. Adrian Adrian M. Wenner (805) 893-2838 (UCSB office) Ecol., Evol., & Marine Biology (805) 893-8062 (UCSB FAX) Univ. of Calif., Santa Barbara (805) 963-8508 (home office & FAX) Santa Barbara, CA 93106 *********************************************************************** * "Discovery is to see what everyone else has seen, * * but to think what no one else has thought." * * --- Albert Szent-Gyorgyi * *********************************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 08:38:42 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Kevin D. Parsons" Subject: Re: What is a hobby beekeeper Whitney S. Cranshaw wrote: > > The term hobby beekeeper is used all the time, but what does it mean? > > The reason for my question is that a local beekeeper is being asked to move > his hives because because this is considered to be an agricultural > enterprise prohibited within city limits. His defense is that he is only a > hobby beekeeper and therefore exempt. But this needs to be better defined. > > Is there limit to the number of hives that determines a hobby beekeeper? > Does selling for profit define if a beekeeper is a hobbyist or not? The following appeared on BEE-l a few years back. I found it good enough to keep since I keep bees in an area with a ban on "farm animals". Hope this helps. Kevin From: "Jeffrey P. Murray" Date: Thu, 30 Nov 1995 09:50:33 -0500 Subject: Re: Neighbors say Beekeeping a "No no" To: Multiple recipients of list BEE-L I found out a few years back that at least one Atlanta-area city ordinance (that of Decatur, GA) was ruled on in such as way as to specifically PROMOTE beekeeping within the city/county. Apparently some nuisance cases were brought up by neighbors of a beekeeper within Decatur city limits. These cases were not based on specific incidents, but were brought to court because neighbors found out about the bees and just didn't like the idea of them in their vicinity (NIMBY strikes again). The cases were intended to eliminate beekeeping within the city based on bees being "domesticated" animals; such animals are not allowed within city limits. The Georgia Extension Service argued on behalf of the beekeeper that in fact bees are wild animals, and that they are exempt from such ordinances; beekeepers in this context provide a home for the bees, but that does not constitute ownership anymore than putting up a bird house does not constitute ownership of birds that use it. This argument was accepted, based in large part on a desire to encourage beekeeping in areas that are experiencing a decline in feral Apis populations. My conclusion is that you shouldn't be shy about checking the ordinances; there is a changing mood in state governments, particularly those in agricultural states that are experiencing crop declines due to lack of adequate feral pollinators. In fact this does NOT mean that you should be irresponsible about keeping the bees, but the fact is that unless neighbors can prove that your bees specifically are causing a problem, you are likely to be home free. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 09:25:11 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Brian Loucks Subject: Natural Beehive Construction Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello, I am writing a short research paper on the topic- How bees make their beehives. I have found all kinds of information on bees and beekeeping in general. However, beehive construction techniques have been much harder to come by. Does anyone have any suggestions for me. If this question is inappropriate for this group, I apologize. Thank you in advance. Pat pbcal@berk.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 09:41:02 -0400 Reply-To: megabite@mindspring.com Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Brian B. Bonner" Subject: Re: Thanks to all, the swarm is back home MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit (Thomas) (Cornick) wrote: > > In a message dated 97-05-22 00:38:04 EDT, you write: > > << *this swarm had a very distinct aroma of lemons. >> > The next time you see lemon balm growing in the garden bruise some and you > will find the smell the same as the bees fanning in a swarm. > I love catching swarms 2 this season so far in CT. > Sometimes putting a frame into a pile of bees in a swarm and scooping > them up and into a hive body gets the rest to follow. > Sometimes after most of the bees are in the hive body and a cup or two are > left on the original cluste smoking them heavily will get them to join the > hive body. > May all your swarms be head high and gentle I am new here and want to raise Bee's, but frankly I am worried about being stung. How do you mess with bees and not get stung? -- -==- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 10:20:55 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "(Thomas) (Cornick)" Subject: Re: Positioning supers (crisscross?) In a message dated 97-05-22 09:18:10 EDT, you write: << Sue Hubbell's "Book of Bees" mentions this kind of "top" entrance. She is working, I believe, in the Ozarks. How far North does this type of thing make sense? I'm in NC close to the SC line. >> Works well in CT some bees propolize the hole down to about one bee size I drill em the size of wine corks so I can stopper them as needed. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 10:31:42 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jim Arthur Subject: Re: Smoker fuel In-Reply-To: <2855020722051997/A27965/GLVAX2/11B5B1C11600*@MHS> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII I've started using the cone from the Magnolia. It takes a few minutes to start but once they start, My smoker smokes for a least an hour before I plug the holes to put it out. Jim ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- A bad day fishing beats a good day a work ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 10:31:27 -0700 Reply-To: mister-t@clinic.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Bill Truesdell Subject: Re: Thanks to all, the swarm is back home Comments: To: megabite@mindspring.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Brian B. Bonner wrote: > I am new here and want to raise Bee's, but frankly I am worried about > being stung. How do you mess with bees and not get stung? I asked the same question before I started keeping bees at a beekeepers meeting. One old veteran smiled and said, "If you're worried about getting stung you shouldn't keep bees." That was the the first advice I got from a beekeeper but not the first I have disregarded. And that was seven years ago. Since I was worried about getting stung, I bought a beesuit with a zippered on veil and long leather ventilated gloves. I tucked my suit legs into my socks so no bee could get to me. And I smoked the suit and every place the bee might get to me. And they usually did not. I probably got stung three or four times a season at most. But two years later I attended a meeting with Charlie Mraz who spoke about bee stings and arthritis. I was suffering from the onset of it in my right arm. When I got home, I took his advice and got a bee to sting me on my right shoulder. That night was the first time I could sleep on my right side in a year! So every spring and fall I sting myself on purpose! And now, seven years later, I now go gloveless, but still zippered up in the suit. I rub my hands with the leftover pine needle ashes from the smoker, which works to keep the bees from stinging. So go for it! Beekeeping is an exceptional hobby and worth persuing. And don't be intimidated by the shirtless, gloveless and veilless beekeepers who might give you some comments about how buttoned up you are. I visited a "mean" hive once with one of them, and while I was still working the hive, he was running for his truck to get a veil, gloves and suit! Bill Truesdell Bath - ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 07:35:40 PDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Dennis Subject: Re: What is a hobby beekeeper In-Reply-To: <199705220838_MC2-1718-128B@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; X-MAPIextension=".TXT" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable In response to Whitney Cranshaw who wrote that bees were being objected = to on grounds that it was an agricultural use: Is there a Garden Club in your area? That is an agricultural pursut. = Are there people that grow vegetables? That is an agricultural pursut. = If they sell a few tomatoes or flowers, is that considered being in busi= ness? If they allow vegetable gardens, they are practicing selective enf= orcement, in my opinion. If this sounds a bit like I'm hackled up over this, it is because I am. = I've been down this road, and won. It was not even my immediate neighbor= s that complained, but people from blocks away! Some people seem to thin= k that the only thing a person should do is have a pretty yard (don't mak= e any noise about it though!), go to work Some Where Else, and sit in the= ir house and watch television. Uck!! Good Luck! Dennis Morefield Sideline Beekeeper, Oregon, USA denmar@mind.net ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 12:28:36 -0300 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Harvey Hyde Subject: Queen Rearing MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII If I split my two BC's and allow the queenless half to raise its own queen, why is it recommended to destroy any started cells after four days? Wouldn't this force the workers to raise the queen from still older larva? Harvey Hyde hhyde@peinet.pe.ca ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 16:46:28 +0100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Mike Pheysey Subject: Frame spacing question??? Hi, Can anyone help me out here with a brood frame spacing question. I've just got some new Hoffman frames to add to those I bought when taking over some kit from a retiring Beekeeper and the're different sizes. Some are 35mm (1 3/8") spacing and some are 37mm (1 1/2"). I notice that 12 thin frames fit exactly into a 16 1/2" wide BS National brood chamber, can you run a National on 12 frames? I also notice that 11 thicker frames also come exactly to 16 1/2", surely not a coincidence!!! Where does the dummy board fit into all this, Thorne's sell a 1/2" thick one, so should I use 4 thin Hoffmans (5 1/2"), 7 thick ones (10 1/2") and a 1/2" dummy? Also I need to know what to do in a WBC (yes, I've inherited a mixture) which is only 15 1/8" wide; 3 thin + 7 thick + dummy? Thoroughly confused, Mike Pheysey. Bristol, 100 miles west of London. mikeph@bri.hp.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 08:14:37 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Bob Arnett Subject: clipped queen and syrup Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject 1: 'clipped' queens. A. Can a queen that's been clipped fly in order to swarm? B. Will she lay queen cell eggs as though she will be leaving? C. If she gets outside by walking or attempting to fly, will putting her back in the hive assuage her urge to leave? D. Do worker bees still recognize and respect a clipped and marked queen or do they try to replace her because of the alterations? Subject 2: feeding of syrup. A. Does feeding sugar syrup to the bees into May (in order to help with wax production on a package hive) have a tendency to bring on a swarm? Thank you for your time. Ty Riley The Colony Burnt Ranch, CA Bob Arnett Whitson Inc. Willow Creek, CA 95573 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 12:49:32 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ian Watson Subject: Bees in a house...again.... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi all I was called the other day by someone with bees in their house. They appear to be going in through a small opening in the corner of the brick at the top corner of a livingroom window. I went inside and used the highly scientific method of holding a drinking glass up to the wall with my ear at the other end and listened to the wall to the side of the window and heard buzzing in quite a large area. I'm not sure if that was bee noise from higher up being carried lower by the plaster wall, or that the bees had filled the entire area between the studs (I am leaning towards the latter). So far I have learned that there are a couple of options at this point: 1) attach a cone of screening to the colony entrance and attach a brood box with top, bottom and a frame of brood, very close to the cone and wait for the bees to emigrate; 2) take off the Facia which is right above this window and hope that the bees are really in there and not the wall below; 3) remove the plaster wall and take out the comb, bees, etc that way. I'm sure this has been the topic of Bee-Line at least once before, but I was wondering if there were any points I have missed? Thanks, Ian Ian Watson ian@gardener.com real estate agent gardener homebrewer baritone beekeeper--> 5 hives, 5 nucs on order ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 13:03:11 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Robert E Neely Subject: Re: Bees in a house...again.... Hi Ian: What ever you do, use as the very last resort the opening up of the wall on the inside of the house. Good Luck, Bob Neely Goose Creek, SC USA neely-bee@juno.com On Thu, 22 May 1997 12:49:32 -0400 Ian Watson writes: >Hi all > >I was called the other day by someone with bees in their house. They >appear to be going in through a small opening in the corner of the >brick at >the top corner of a livingroom window. I went inside and used the >highly >scientific method of holding a drinking glass up to the wall with my >ear at >the other end and listened to the wall to the side of the window and >heard >buzzing in quite a large area. I'm not sure if that was bee noise >from >higher up being carried lower by the plaster wall, or that the bees >had >filled the entire area between the studs (I am leaning towards the >latter). >So far I have learned that there are a couple of options at this >point: 1) >attach a cone of screening to the colony entrance and attach a brood >box >with top, bottom and a frame of brood, very close to the cone and wait >for >the bees to emigrate; 2) take off the Facia which is right above this >window and hope that the bees are really in there and not the wall >below; >3) remove the plaster wall and take out the comb, bees, etc that way. >I'm sure this has been the topic of Bee-Line at least once before, but >I >was wondering if there were any points I have missed? >Thanks, >Ian > >Ian Watson >ian@gardener.com >real estate agent gardener homebrewer baritone >beekeeper--> 5 hives, 5 nucs on order > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 18:15:59 GMT Reply-To: Tim_Sterrett@westtown.edu Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Tim Sterrett Organization: Westtown School Subject: Re: clipped queen and syrup Subject 1: 'clipped' queens. A. Can a queen that's been clipped fly in order to swarm? ******************** No. ************* B. Will she lay queen cell eggs as though she will be leaving? ****************** Yes, she doesn't know that she cannot fly. Workers will see to it that a new queen is raised. ******************* C. If she gets outside by walking or attempting to fly, will putting her back in the hive assuage her urge to leave? **************** No. ***************** D. Do worker bees still recognize and respect a clipped and marked queen or do they try to replace her because of the alterations? ****************** This is a good question and should generate a mix of answers. If the answer were a clear no, then no one would clip or mark a queen. ****************** Subject 2: feeding of syrup. A. Does feeding sugar syrup to the bees into May (in order to help with wax production on a package hive) have a tendency to bring on a swarm? ************** Feeding an established colony too much syrup in early spring may stimulate the colony to build up in numbers too soon and can lead to swarming. Feeding just the right amount of syrup will help the colony build up for the honey flow and not stimulate the bees to swarm. How much is too much? Feeding syrup to a package or to a captured swarm should not encourage them to swarm. They use the syrup to make combs. Tim Tim Sterrett Westtown, (Southeastern) Pennsylvania, USA tim_sterrett@westtown.edu ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 19:05:09 +0200 Reply-To: jtemp@xs4all.nl Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jan Tempelman Organization: Home Subject: Re: Rhododendrons MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-2 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Paula Franke wrote: > While looking up the various plants that Jan Templeman asked about earlier,........ nice doing Paula. Thanks > *Honey from rhododendrons is poisonous.* Only the honey from Rhododendron pontium is poisonous It is a kind from the borders of the Black See (north of Turkey) In the USA the honey of the KALMIA is poisonous. In Japan the honey of Andromeda is poisonous. In New Zealand the honey of Coriana arborea is very poisonous. reference: My Honey test book from our Beekeepers ass. but the list-boy from New Zealand will know this better -- Jan Tempelman / Ineke Drabbe | EMAIL:jtemp@xs4all.nl Sterremos 16 3069 AS Rotterdam, The Netherlands Tel/Fax (SOMETIMES) XX 31 (0)10-4569412 homepage webside: http://www.xs4all.nl/~jtemp/index2.html with some pages in english on solitary bees. NEW PAGES ON THE FIGHT ON THE VARROA MITES. http://www.xs4all.nl/~jtemp/dronemethod.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 15:21:03 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ted Wout Subject: swarms MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 j h & e mcadam wrote: >>Gert Walter asks if there are external signs that a swarm has issued - = I do not know of any. The bees in the swarm are of all ages and there will al= so be a stock of mature and young bees still remaining in the hive to contin= ue their duties.<< So there are some clues that a swarm will issue, of course when it is issuing and afterward that it has issued. If you're in a position to wat= ch your hive regularly you'll notice that something is up. Before swarming the queen stops laying to slim up for her flight. The field force gets s= o excited about this they start hanging around more. You'll notice many be= es at the entrance but not much activity as far as foraging. You will not s= ee pollen coming in like it used to when the queen was laying. If you're lucky enough to see or hear the swarm of course you'll know it happened. = Afterwards, there are many bees missing. You'll see some activity, but n= ot what you used to see. You may get to witness the maiden flight of the ne= w young queen which the hive may participate in. Then you'll notice that actvity will start to build up again. Most noticable, that pollen will come in again. = The outward clues of what's going on inside the hive fascinate me. As I'= ve matured as a beekeeper my sense of this has gotten more and more acute. = Even people telling you about it will not help you actually do it. You just have to watch and listen to start getting a feel for it. I wish the= re was a book that gave you clues about what to look for so that as we all g= et more accustomed to watching our hives, we'd know what to look for. Anybo= dy know of one? I imagine that one of the prominent bee researchers could even watch for the signs and verify them with what's going one inside the= hive. I strongly encourage the new beekeepers on the list to watch. Just grab = a lawn chair, an iced tea and watch your hive for awhile whenever you can. = Count the bees coming for awhile. Count the bees going for awhile. Look= for pollen in pollen sacks. Look for fighting and defensive behavior. = Look for housekeepers removing dead brood or waste from the hive. Be careful after a few days of rain though, the bees may surprise you with brown rain on their cleansing flights! Ted Wout Red Oak, TX ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 13:25:33 -0600 Reply-To: allend@internode.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Allen Dick Organization: The Beekeepers Subject: Repost: Best of Bee MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT How to receive Best of bee: Send email to LISTSERV@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU saying SET BEE-L NOMAIL, and at the same time send email to HoneyBee@systronix.net, saying JOIN BESTOFBEE you@whatever.com (where 'you@whatever.com' is your the email address to which you want the list to be sent). Subscribing to Best of Bee will bring you only selected and edited posts from BEE-L. This is a reduction of 10 to 90% in mail flow (about 90% in recent days). This option is best suited to experienced or professional beekeepers who wish to avoid very basic discussions and chatter, but still track what is happening on BEE-L. There are currently 208 subscribers to Best of Bee. For more information, send email to bees@systronix.net, saying SEND BESTBEE in the subject line. You will receive a text file in return. For those who want to know more about the selection and editorial policies of Best of Bee, send email to bees@systronix.net, saying SEND CRITERIA in the subject line. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 15:54:54 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Robert E Neely Subject: Re: Natural Beehive Construction Hi Pat: Contact your County Extension Service, Dept. of Agriculture and can supply you with these materials. Bob Neely Goose Creek, SC neely-bee@juno.com On Thu, 22 May 1997 09:25:11 -0400 Brian Loucks writes: >Hello, >I am writing a short research paper on the topic- How bees make their >beehives. >I have found all kinds of information on bees and beekeeping in >general. >However, beehive construction techniques have been much harder to come >by. >Does anyone have any suggestions for me. >If this question is inappropriate for this group, I apologize. >Thank you in advance. > >Pat >pbcal@berk.com > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 16:09:52 -0500 Reply-To: beeworks@muskoka.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: David Eyre Organization: The Bee Works Subject: Re: clipped queen and syrup In-Reply-To: <2.2.32.19970522151437.006a5360@telis.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT On 22 May 97 at 8:14, Bob Arnett wrote: > B. Will she lay queen cell eggs as though she will be leaving? I have often queried this statement. Some books state that it is the size of the cell which triggers the queen to fertilise the egg on laying. Small worker cells will be fertilised, larger drone cells un-fertilised. If this is correct, how come a large queen cell produces a fertilised egg? ******************************************* The Bee Works, 9 Progress Dr, Unit 2, Orillia, Ontario, L3V 6H1 Phone/fax 705-326-7171 David Eyre, Owner. http://www.muskoka.net/~beeworks ******************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 16:09:52 -0500 Reply-To: beeworks@muskoka.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: David Eyre Organization: The Bee Works Subject: Re: Queen Rearing In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT On 22 May 97 at 12:28, Harvey Hyde wrote: > If I split my two BC's and allow the queenless half to raise its own > queen, why is it recommended to destroy any started cells after four days? > Wouldn't this force the workers to raise the queen from still older larva? They don't just start one cell. If you examine a frame where cells are being built you will find a variety of ages of larvae and cells under construction. Obviously the older ones are removed to prevent scrub or intercastes, while the ones of correct age go on to produce good quality queens. I do have quite an article on my hard drive dealing with this, if you wish I will post it. ******************************************* The Bee Works, 9 Progress Dr, Unit 2, Orillia, Ontario, L3V 6H1 Phone/fax 705-326-7171 David Eyre, Owner. http://www.muskoka.net/~beeworks ******************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 16:09:52 -0500 Reply-To: beeworks@muskoka.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: David Eyre Organization: The Bee Works Subject: Re: Positioning supers (crisscross?) In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT On 22 May 97 at 8:38, Greg Hankins wrote: . The hive with that super has produced more > >honey than any others that I have. Everytime I go to that hive there are > >bees fanning for all they are worth from this entrance. The aroma of > >drying nectar is overwhelming at this hive, I love that sweet smell. Maybe > >there is something to this... > > Sue Hubbell's "Book of Bees" mentions this kind of "top" entrance. She is > working, I believe, in the Ozarks. How far North does this type of thing > make sense? I'm in NC close to the SC line. We have advocated using top entrances for many years. In fact our hive and Mod Kit is based on that type of ventilation. We have proved that a ventilated hive will out perform a none ventilated hive in honey production, given the same circumstances. Top entrances are vital here where the winters are so long and cold. It does allow for an alternative entrance should the bottom one become clogged with dead bees. At this time of year they only use the top one, until we shut it down, after early spring inspections and bottom board cleaning. > On a similar note, what kind of climate and other considerations would > argue for using a single brood box for over-wintering, vs. two deeps or > one deep and one medium or shallow super? The only criteria that I can establish is the amount of stores needed to get them through the winter. Obviously the more boxes, the more stores possible. I don't think my bees could manage on less than two deeps. In fact our queen yards are only on two, mainly because we stimulate feed in early spring, whereas our production yards are on 3 deeps and we don't spring feed. ******************************************* The Bee Works, 9 Progress Dr, Unit 2, Orillia, Ontario, L3V 6H1 Phone/fax 705-326-7171 David Eyre, Owner. http://www.muskoka.net/~beeworks ******************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 16:16:53 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ted Wout Subject: Re: Bees in a house...again.... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Ian Watson wrote: >>So far I have learned that there are a couple of options at this point:= 1) attach a cone of screening to the colony entrance and attach a brood box with top, bottom and a frame of brood, very close to the cone and wait fo= r the bees to emigrate; 2) take off the Facia which is right above this window and hope that the bees are really in there and not the wall below;= 3) remove the plaster wall and take out the comb, bees, etc that way. I'm sure this has been the topic of Bee-Line at least once before, but I was wondering if there were any points I have missed?<< I've just completed a successful operation like this employing option 1. = Now that the bees are gone, I've left option 3 up to the homeowner to cle= an up the beeswax and mess sans bees. Wax is extremely flammable and poses = a great danger in case of fire. This way the homeowner can't hold you responsible for damaging their home. Option 2 sounds like the beginning = of option 3 and once started, might lead you down the road of no return. = Of course there may be a reason to try and remove the queen if you feel these bees have some sort of talent/trait which helps them survive varroa= =2E = If that's the case you can employ option 1 to deplete the hive, then, in = a few weeks, option 3 to get the queen without freeing too many bees inside= the house. = The homeowner in my case was somewhat willing to tear up his walls and rafters. After checking out the situation, I decided I did not want the responsibility of dismembering his walls. I told him that after the bees= were long gone, he might want to take on the responsibility or hire a carpenter. Good Luck! Ted Wout Red Oak, TX ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 17:44:42 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Steven A. Creasy" Subject: Honeybee Cartoon Howdy All! I am planning to include with my honey this year a small card with "Amazzzing Honeybee Facts" (miles flown to gather your honey, # trips etc.). I hope to pique the interest of my customers and help them appreciate the work that goes into their purchase! I am looking for a cartoon (black and white or color) of a honeybee that I could include on my card to make the appearance more appealing. Do any of you fine folk know where one might download such a picture? I would be very thankful to anyone who could direct me in this endeavor! TIA Steve Creasy- (\ Maryville, Tennessee USA {|||8- Proverbs 24:13, 25:16 (/ screasy@juno.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 17:49:05 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Joe Anderson Subject: Re: Rhododendrons Don't sweat it! ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 20:43:05 +0100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "luichart.woollens@virgin.net" Organization: Luichart Woollens Subject: Re: Frame spacing question??? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mike Pheysey wrote: > > can you run a National on 12 frames? I also notice that 11 thicker frames > also come exactly to 16 1/2", surely not a coincidence!!! > > Where does the dummy board fit into all this, Thorne's sell a 1/2" thick Hi Mike, You can run your National on 12 frames. The more frames you can get into the brood chamber the more room you will have for brood giving you more bees and hopefully more honey. If you can slide them in and out easily enough then go for max frames. The only time that this does not apply is at the end of the season when I find it is best to remove one frame to give a ventilation space at the front and back of the hive (I have my frames running parallel to the entrance). If the 12 frames are too tight then you will have to use 11 and fill the space with dummy board(s). Some people advocate using dummy boards for extra insulation. In this case the dummies should be made from something like polystyrene and covered with thin ply (the bees will eat the polystyrene). National hives should be 18 1/8" square. The internal measurements depends on the thickness of the wood. Some old hives were made of 1" thick wood (sometimes even thicker) thus reducing the internal measurements. Harry Scotland. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 17:57:26 -0600 Reply-To: ribac@wi.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Randy, Isa & Alina Chase" Subject: Re: Beekeeping for Scout camp MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The President of the Wisconsin Honey Producer's Association is Lee Heine. His home phone number is (414) 349-8382. There are also eight regional districts of the WHPA. The chairperson of the Northern district is Keith Rowe in Cable (715) 798-2358. Either one of them should be able to direct you to a local resource person. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 16:52:41 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Whitney S. Cranshaw" Subject: Hobby beekeepers Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I have greatly appreciated the comments received regarding the hobby beekeeping definition and it should help with our local situation. However, in trying to make files I inadvertently lost on my computer the comments by Robert Neely, Albert Needham, Donald Aitken, and Richard Barnes. Could these individuals please resubmit their posting - directly to me? Thanks and sorry to add to the clutter. Whitney Cranshaw wcransha@ceres.agsci.colostate.edu ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 19:02:45 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Beverly Ellen Stanley Subject: Re: $300 for one hive? Dear Ted: I'd like to have the numbers of the bee suppliers, if you wouldn't mind E-mailing them to me. Thanks. Bev ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 20:06:50 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "List James E. Chiles" Subject: Re: BEE-L Digest - 20 May 1997 to 21 May 1997 Fellow Bee-l's I'm looking for information pertaining to a disease caused in part by handling bee equipment that has been "accessed" by rodents. I understand there is a rather significant illness associated and the mortality rate is somewhat high. I'm concerned for a neighbor (former beekeeper) who has come down with an illness which is affecting his lungs. I respectfully request anyone knowing about the name of such a disease and or any reference (I shall relay to his doctor) contact me directly (jechiles@aol.com) Thanking you in advance, Jim Chiles Spotsylvania, VA, USA ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 20:12:43 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Albert W Needham Subject: Re: Honeybee Cartoon On Thu, 22 May 1997 17:44:42 EDT "Steven A. Creasy" writes: >Howdy All! > >I am looking for a cartoon (black and white or color) of a honeybee The National Honey Board Web Site has such cartoony bees. I do not recall it's URL, but a good use of a search engine should find it. Al, Offering 'Unique' Honey Bee Artwork On Caps, ------- T-Shirts, Tank Tops & Sweatshirts -------- ------- http://www.xensei.com/users/alwine ------ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 18:46:16 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Donald Aitken Subject: Re: BEE-L Digest - 20 May 1997 to 21 May 1997 Comments: To: "List James E. Chiles" In-Reply-To: <970522200515_1323503648@emout07.mail.aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII In Alberta, we recently had a number of cases of " Hanta Virus " which is spread by inhaling the dust from mouse excreta. It has not affected beekeepers particularly, but seems more worry to people working in enclosed areas. It is apparently a flu like thing which affects the lungs and can have fatal results. Donald Aitken 11710-129 Street Edmonton Alberta Canada T5M 0Y7 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 20:56:50 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: bartlett Subject: Honey flow Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Honey flow in southern Maryland is about half over. The tulip popular and holly are now in full bloom, but the weather has been so cool and windy that the bees aren't doing much flying. Anybody else having the same problem?? billy bee ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 20:21:11 -0600 Reply-To: Charles Harper Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Charles Harper Subject: Re: clipped queen and syrup MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Thu, 22 May 1997 08:14:37 -0700, Bob Arnett wrote: >Subject 1: 'clipped' queens. > A. Can a queen that's been clipped fly in order to swarm? no > B. Will she lay queen cell eggs as though she will be leaving? yes > C. If she gets outside by walking or attempting to fly, will putting her back > in the hive assuage her urge to leave? no > D. Do worker bees still recognize and respect a clipped and marked queen or do > they try to replace her because of the alterations? yes and no >Subject 2: feeding of syrup. > A. Does feeding sugar syrup to the bees into May (in order to help with wax > production on a package hive) have a tendency to bring on a swarm? no >Thank you for your time. > >Ty Riley >The Colony >Burnt Ranch, CA > >Bob Arnett >Whitson Inc. >Willow Creek, CA 95573 > Charles Harper Harper's Honey farm 1000 + Colonies ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 19:44:11 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Charles Hatton Subject: Should We Still Be Feeding Bees? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable We have two hives. They are a half of a mile apart. One hive is still = sucking the sugar water like crazy. The other hive is not eating = anything. How is it possible that one hive is eating like crazy, and = the other isn't eating anything? Is this normal? They are eating a = quart of sugar water per day (2 cups of water, 4 cups of sugar). Charles and Charley Salt Lake City, UT, USA Charles@apeleon.net ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 21:46:45 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Paula Franke Subject: Re: Rhododendrons MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thanks for the responses. As Joe Anderson says > Don't sweat it! I wasn't particularly worried about it because our bees haven't shown any interest in them (only the bumblebees seem to like the rhododendron in the front yard). I was just curious as to what would make the honey poisonous, and why a book by the National Audubon Society would have included such a blanket statement. Perhaps I need to have a word with the book's editor...:) Paula Franke pfranke@kih.net http://www.users.kih.net/~pfranke "There are only two things to remember about life: 1. Don't sweat the small stuff 2. Everything is small stuff." ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 21:42:17 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Frank & Phronsie Humphrey Subject: Re: smoker fuel MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ---------- > From: Robert Watson > To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU > Subject: Re: smoker fuel > Date: Wednesday, May 21, 1997 11:20 PM > > On Tue, 20 May 1997, Bill Truesdell wrote: > > > I once used corrugated cardboard until I learned that some is treated > > with chemicals harmful to bees, so I now use pine needles- the fuel used > > by every winner in the summer smoker contest at our Maine State > > Beekeeper's Annual Picnic for the past four years. The smoke is "cool" > > and lasts long. > > Are egg cartons likely to contain anything harmful? They are good for > starting the fire, and I often continue to add more of the same as well as > grass and leaves on top for cool smoke. > > Rob > > > Robert C.L. Watson > rwatson1@freenet.npiec.on.ca > pipe organ technician organist - choirmaster early woodwind player > hobby beekeeper homebrewer tenor If the egg cartons are the paper type they would probably be ok but the Styrofoam type gives off noxious fumes when burned. I use mostly pine needles but sometimes use burlap. I had a number of customers in the corrugated cardboard business and I can tell you their products were safe. They made their own glue from corn and wheat starch, Frank & Phronsie Humphrey beekeepr@cdc.net ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 20:12:50 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Charles Hatton Subject: Can bees use two entrances?? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable One of our hives has a space between the two supers and the bees are = using the space and the normal entrance to fly in and out. Is this a = problem? Should we seal the space? Charles and Charley Charles@apeleon.net ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 22:33:34 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Heath A Miller Subject: Re: smoker fuel Heath Miller, I have heard that pine needles may couse cancer? Does any one know any thing about it? Naples, Florida 8 hives 500 wanted ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 06:43:21 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: John M Thorp Subject: Re: Can bees use two entrances?? Probably be a good idea to just have one opening or else more bees have to be assigned to guard duty taking them away from honey production. Take Care and GBY,John in Homestead,also at On Thu, 22 May 1997 20:12:50 -0600 Charles Hatton writes: >One of our hives has a space between the two supers and the bees are = >using the space and the normal entrance to fly in and out. Is this a >= >problem? Should we seal the space? > >Charles and Charley >Charles@apeleon.net > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 06:43:21 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: John M Thorp Subject: Re: smoker fuel As long as you are'nt downwind you should be ok. The bees have such a short lifespan ,not to worry about them. Take Care and GBY,John in Homestead,also at On Thu, 22 May 1997 22:33:34 EDT Heath A Miller writes: >Heath Miller, I have heard that pine needles may couse cancer? >Does any one know any thing about it? > > >Naples, Florida >8 hives >500 wanted ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 23:58:04 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Paul Cronshaw, D.C." Subject: Re: Bees in a house again... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Ian, Welcome to the world of BEE-REMOVAL. Of your 3 choices I would opt for the first one - the cone/bait hive technique. I have done a number of this form of bee removals over the years. They are surprisingly effective and a means to increase a nuc hive quicky due to 2 laying queens. Problem is that it leaves a dead colony and deserted wax and honey inside the wall which can break off and drop down into the firewalls and soak throug the plaster. Wax moths and ants will take care of the rest. You can let the new colony rob it out. DOn;t forget to patch the hole so it will not entice future swarms. Re #2 Removing the fascia. If you are a carpenter and the owner has no problem in your removing the outside wall, then this can be effective bee removal method. You will get all the bees, wax and honey out thereby preventing any damage from dripping honey eminating from wax month destoyed combs. Problem can be finding the queen, she may move up into an attic or other part of thehouse that is inaccessible without major demo. Have a bee vac on hand helps. Re: 3: Taking out the inside plaster wall is the least desirable avenue IMO because there will be bees filling the living room and attracted to the windows or lights. Make sure you have a shop vac or bee vac on hand to suck up the ones who escape into the room. YOu could always ward off the section that you are working with a taped ceiling to floor plastic tarp. Also are you a good plasterer or drywaller? Good luck in this project. Remember someone told me that "bees in a house means the house is blessed". BTW Does anyone know the source of this belief? Paul Cronshaw DC Santa Barbara, CA USA Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 12:49:32 -0400 From: Ian Watson Subject: Bees in a house...again.... Hi all I was called the other day by someone with bees in their house. They appear to be going in through a small opening in the corner of the brick at the top corner of a livingroom window. I went inside and used the highly scientific method of holding a drinking glass up to the wall with my ear at the other end and listened to the wall to the side of the window and heard buzzing in quite a large area. I'm not sure if that was bee noise from higher up being carried lower by the plaster wall, or that the bees had filled the entire area between the studs (I am leaning towards the latter). So far I have learned that there are a couple of options at this point: 1) attach a cone of screening to the colony entrance and attach a brood box with top, bottom and a frame of brood, very close to the cone and wait for the bees to emigrate; 2) take off the Facia which is right above this window and hope that the bees are really in there and not the wall below; 3) remove the plaster wall and take out the comb, bees, etc that way. I'm sure this has been the topic of Bee-Line at least once before, but I was wondering if there were any points I have missed? Thanks, Ian Ian Watson ian@gardener.com real estate agent gardener homebrewer baritone beekeeper--> 5 hives, 5 nucs on order ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 22:43:42 -0800 Reply-To: beeman@Alaska.NET Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Tom & Carol Elliott Organization: Home Subject: Re: Queen Rearing MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Harvey Hyde wrote: > > If I split my two BC's and allow the queenless half to raise its own > queen, why is it recommended to destroy any started cells after four days? > Wouldn't this force the workers to raise the queen from still older larva? If the hive is queenless, there won't be any older larva. They will all be capped. - - - - - - - - - - - - "Test everything. Hold on to the good." (1 Thessalonians 5:21) Tom Elliott Eagle River, Alaska U.S.A. beeman@alaska.net ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 23:43:21 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Paul Cronshaw, D.C." Subject: Taming a mean hive Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Bill Truesdell wrote [snip] > I >visited a "mean" hive once with one of them, and while I was still >working the hive, he was running for his truck to get a veil, gloves and >suit! In one of my apiary yards with 7 hives, my largest and most active hive is the meanest. I call it Hive X. All others I can work with veil only on a nice warm day. Today I worked on Hive X to change a rotting bottom board. By the time I was done I had to use duct tape to keep them off my ankles (try walking on 20 sting ankles :) SO naturally I do not want to look thru this hive for a queen. What is the quickest way to flush out a bad queen in a mean hive without pulling apart their home? I think we discussed this topic in a previous thread. It boiled down to a decision between the mean bees or the wife going!! Actually I consider today's experience on-the-job training for working with future hives of AHB when they arrive in Santa Barbara, CA.:) Paul Cronshaw, D.C. Cyberchiro and Hobbyist Beekeeper Santa Barbara, CA USA ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 23:13:08 -0700 Reply-To: mwr@hotcity.com Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Michael Reddell Subject: Re: smoker fuel MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Heath A Miller wrote: > > Heath Miller, I have heard that pine needles may couse cancer? > Does any one know any thing about it? > Probably so. Doesn't everything!!?? I can't imagine what kind of smoke you could inhale that would be totally harmless. I have an untested theory that worrying too much about all the things that cause cancer and heart disease is probably a significant cause of both. Michael Reddell mwr@hotcity.com http://www.hotcity.com/~mwr ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 22:51:00 -0700 Reply-To: mwr@hotcity.com Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Michael Reddell Subject: Re: Queen Rearing MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Harvey Hyde wrote: > > If I split my two BC's and allow the queenless half to raise its own > queen, why is it recommended to destroy any started cells after four days? > Wouldn't this force the workers to raise the queen from still older larva? > > Harvey Hyde > hhyde@peinet.pe.ca It's not all started cells but all capped cells that you destroy after 4 days. The ones that are capped this soon are too old when converted by the bees. The younger ones are not ready to cap in 4 days. Don't destroy the uncapped cells at this point. They are the ones you want to keep. Michael Reddell mwr@hotcity.com http://www.hotcity.com/~mwr ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 22:43:15 -0700 Reply-To: mwr@hotcity.com Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Michael Reddell Subject: Not getting stung MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Brian B. Bonner wrote: > I am new here and want to raise Bee's, but frankly I am worried about > being stung. How do you mess with bees and not get stung? > Well, theoretically all that equipment you wear is supposed to keep you from getting stung. I have a couple of kids in my 4-H project that could just about handle toxic waste in the protective gear they wear. And neither of them has been stung in a year and a half. But I personally think stings are over-rated. They hurt like crazy for a few minutes, but I'd rather get a few stings occasionally than to put up with the heat in that suit and gloves. And besides, I've been stung with the equipment on. Over time you learn to read the mood of the bees and dress accordingly. Sometimes I stop in the middle of what I'm doing to put on more gear based on the clues I pick up while working a hive. I seriously doubt that you could keep bees for too long without coming to a balanced point of view about stings. I suggest you start with the 'toxic waste suit' and learn to read the bees. Over time you may find that you are less worried. Michael Reddell mwr@hotcity.com http://www.hotcity.com/~mwr ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 00:42:12 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "MR WILLIAM L HUGHES JR." Subject: Mean Hive-What to do? REQUEEN!! Bill Hughes Bent Holly Honey Farm Brighton, TN USA <> ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 00:10:24 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Richard E Leber Subject: Honey Board Web Site Hi ya'll For those looking for the National Honey Board Web Site: http://www.nhb.org Rick Leber, Beekeeping since 1987 Mobile, Alabama ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 23:25:03 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Gerry Visel Subject: Help for the Boy Scouts Dear Gerry, Thanks for replying. I am just starting beekeeping. I am the director for the ecology conservation site at East Camp of camp Makajawan, which is near Antigo, Wisconsin: Makajawan Scout Reservation W6500 Spring Lake Rd. Pearson, WI 54462 My twin brother, Jesse, is also going to be involved in this program, as he is the director for the ecology area at West Camp Makajawan, across a lake from East Camp. So far, one smoker, an entrance feeder, and two nucs (which we will use as observational hives for the two camps) have been donated. We are hoping to have one or two main hives a little ways off. If you could help in any way with equipment, I would greatly appreciate it (especially with the main hive and protective gear-so as many Scouts as possible can experience it). We wrote nationals concerning the discontinued Scout merit badge, and they have told us that a reply is in the mail (it is a bit much to ask for the whole nation to have the badge available, but perhaps they will allow Makajawan to do it). If you have any neat ideas on how to talk to the Scouts about the bees, or any other wisdom for the bee hive setups, I would love the help (we also have two empty nucs, which we might be able to show the bees creating a new queen?). Could you ask the group from rockford if any would be willing to help out with equipment or if any have wisdom for how I should proceed with this. Thanks for your interest, I'm very excited about this. Sincerely, Michael Foote 847-256-3013 105 Dupee Pl. Wilmette, IL 60091 thefeet97@aol.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 21:32:01 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: DThor2b@AOL.COM Subject: Re: What is a hobby beekeeper You have hit my arguement right on the head. I have definations of agriculture from 6 different sources. Yes, bees are agriculture, but litterly interperted, so is any other living thing, be it plant or animal. Slective enforcement is a good term. I weas thinking more along the lines of discrimeination. What is the urban dweller to do, remove all signs of life from his property and pave it over? Get out the weed killer, there is some grass growing up through that crack! Yes my hackles are up, and they will stay there until this is resolved. Thanks everyone for your imput and concern. Dennis Thorell (The Common Criminal) Lakewood, Colorado ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 21:33:22 +0000 Reply-To: jdalexa@widtech.com Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: John Alexander Subject: Re: Honey flow Comments: cc: bartlett In-Reply-To: <9705230053.AA19914@eagle1.eaglenet.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT I've got the same problem here in Beltsville with wind. I don't know where it's coming from, but the bees aren't flying. Judging by the buds, I'd say there's about another 2 weeks of Tulip Poplar. It may be a long feeding sort of summer. John Alexander Celtistan Apiaries Beltsville, MD ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 08:20:48 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Robert E Neely Subject: Re: BEE-L Digest - 20 May 1997 to 21 May 1997 Rats carry typhus fever germ and it is spread by fleas. Very rare in this country. High mortality rate back in the 1920's. Just a thought, Bob Neely On Thu, 22 May 1997 20:06:50 -0400 "List James E. Chiles" writes: >Fellow Bee-l's > >I'm looking for information pertaining to a disease caused in part by >handling bee equipment that has been "accessed" by rodents. I >understand >there is a rather significant illness associated and the mortality >rate is >somewhat high. I'm concerned for a neighbor (former beekeeper) who >has come >down with an illness which is affecting his lungs. I respectfully >request >anyone knowing about the name of such a disease and or any reference >(I shall >relay to his doctor) contact me directly (jechiles@aol.com) > >Thanking you in advance, > >Jim Chiles >Spotsylvania, VA, USA > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 08:31:40 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: RICHARD BARNES Subject: Re: Can bees use two entrances?? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I routinely use 2 entrances, one is the normal entrance on the bottom of the hive and the second is in the first super above the queen excluder. The "super entrance" is a 3/4 inch hole and I put a small landing board below the entrance. The field bees seem to like the going straight to the super and not having to fight the queen excluder. Richard Barnes rbarnes@halnet.com At 08:12 PM 5/22/97 -0600, you wrote: >One of our hives has a space between the two supers and the bees are using the space and the normal entrance to fly in and out. Is this a problem? Should we seal the space? > >Charles and Charley >Charles@apeleon.net > > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 09:34:54 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Beverly Ellen Stanley Subject: Re: BEE-L Digest - 20 May 1997 to 21 May 1997 Have they checked him for the hanta virus? It is particularly virulent and affects the lungs. It killed more than a score of people in the Southwest awhile ago and is associated with rodent activity. Bev ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 10:07:37 +0000 Reply-To: tvf@umich.edu Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ted Fischer Organization: The University of Michigan Subject: Re: Can bees use two entrances?? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Charles Hatton wrote: > > One of our hives has a space between the two supers and the bees are using the space and the normal entrance to fly in and out. Is this a problem? Should we seal the space? I find that bees love to use entrances above the bottom board. I personally drill a 3/4" hole in all my brood chambers (but not supers) and they are very popular with the inhabitants. Also, many brood chambers will develop separations of one sort or the other with time, and bees will use these for entrances. The only time to be concerned is in a nectar scarcity, when robbing might occur. Then the openings should be closed off. I always carry a roll of duct tape in my toolbox for this purpose. If you really mean that the openings are between supers (as opposed to brood chambers), then I would close those off because of the tendency to bring in pollen, which always makes a problem in the honey supers. Ted Fischer Dexter, Michigan USA ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 11:21:00 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Palm, Kevin R. (LLP)" Subject: Three swarms from two hives?!?!?!? Hello all, Last Sunday, due to my own negligence and procrastination in taking the appropriate actions, my two hives swarmed. I have two Buckfast hives, one in three deeps, both having queen excluders and two supers on. My question is this: my two hives produced three simultaneous swarms!! I haven't been in to check the queen cells yet (nasty weather and too busy), but is it possible that I had two queens in one of my hives without knowing it?? From everything I've read, the new virgins don't hatch out until appx. a week after the primary swarm has issued (I heard "piping" in both my established hives last night, so I assume the new queens have arrived). It just doesn't make sense to me. Can someone enlighten me?? Thanks, Kevin Palm Grafton, Ohio ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 14:35:30 -0500 Reply-To: beeworks@muskoka.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: David Eyre Organization: The Bee Works Subject: Re: Queen Rearing MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT I had enough requests for the page on Queen rearing, so here it is. Comments are always appreciated, as there is always the chance to learn!! QUEEN REARING. For the amateur beekeeper, one major problem is making queens of quality without grafting. The following system was taught to me many years ago and used successfully for a long time until I needed larger quantities of Queens.. The sequence is relatively straight forward, and consists of a number of manipulations at set intervals, each one timed to help the bees. First let us set the timing. With all queen rearing, there has to be a nectar flow, or the bees have to be fed! Secondly, there is no point in making queens unless drones are flying freely. We start by making up a nuc. To control the breeding we try hard to ensure that there are no eggs or young larvae in the 3 or 5 frames, or you can be sure the bees will start a queen up in an obscure corner somewhere. Once started in one direction it is almost impossible to re-direct them into the direction you want them to go. One way to achieve an eggless nuc, takes longer but is overall more effective. To a two box hive add a queen excluder pulling up all open brood, make sure the queen is in the lower box, wait 7 days. The bees will cap over all open brood, then you can remove the bottom box to another part of the yard, leaving the queenless box on the original stand. Needless to say, the queenless nuc is strengthened by the flight bees from the removed box. Now add a frame of eggs 24 hours after the split! As it is virtually impossible to get a frame of just eggs without special equipment, it stands to reason that larvae of various ages will be transferred. A series of cells will be started, from newly hatched eggs, to older larvae. To ensure that the bees will not use larvae too old it is important to remove those true emergency cells from the nuc after they are made and capped over. It is important to remember the bees feeding sequence. When the egg first hatches it is fed Royal Jelly, after it is decided that the larvae is to be a worker the food quality is drastically reduced, this prevents the formation of ovaries. The bees can, even after this time change back to Royal Jelly, and will produce a semi-queen or intercaste, quite capable of laying eggs, but they are usually small and weak, and their egg capacity is very poor. Pheromone production is also under question, as the hive can get very aggressive with these scrub queens. We cut out any cells which are capped over at 4 days after the egg frame is added, and check all other frames as the bees are known to move eggs. It is important to remember that any cell capped over before 9 days from egg laying will rarely produce quality queens. We reduce the number of cells, to concentrate the amount of food fed to each cell. It is possible to remove excess cells and use them in other nucs, just be very gentle, and wait till the 14th day after laying, and protect with a cell protector. ******************************************* The Bee Works, 9 Progress Dr, Unit 2, Orillia, Ontario, L3V 6H1 Phone/fax 705-326-7171 David Eyre, Owner. http://www.muskoka.net/~beeworks ******************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 14:50:01 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Kevin D. Parsons" Subject: Taming a mean hive MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > SO naturally I do not want to look thru this hive for a queen. What is= the > quickest way to flush out a bad queen in a mean hive without pulling apart > their home? I think we discussed this topic in a previous thread. It > boiled down to a decision between the mean bees or the wife going!! When I had a similar situation here's what I did and it worked fairly wel= l. I put the hive on a hand truck and took it about 100 ft away under a tree= =2E I put an empty hive or box at the original site. After about an hour I we= nt through the hive and removed the queen. It was on the third pass through all the frames that I finally found her. Then the hive was put back in it's original location and a new queen introduced. = Not a single sting! But I wore a lot of duct tape! Kevin D. Parsons Pittsburgh PA ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 20:48:14 +0200 Reply-To: beeman@kuai.se Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: P-O Gustafsson Subject: Re: Fluvalinate residues MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >From: Adony Melathopoulos > >It would be nice to have some continental European beekeepers comment on >this. I think the year the study was done when most German beekeepers were >either using coumaphos (Perizin - a systemic added to syrup), >bromopropylate (the Folbex smoking strip treatment), or formic acid. I have forwarded this to Ingemar Fries, and is his answer follows below. -- Regards P-O Gustafsson, Sweden beeman@kuai.se http://www.kuai.se/~beeman/ ___________________________________________________________________________ The results presented on longterm effect on Varroa mortality from combs where bees have been previously been treated with pyrethroids need to be repeated to be confirmed. Experiments with contaminated wax demonstrate that the effect of pyrethroid residues at levels you may find under field conditions has no measurable effect on mother mites invading cells. With coumaphos it is another story, where even low levels may cause increased mother mite mortality (Fries, Wallner & Rosenkranz, 1997, in manuscript). About pyrtethroid tolerance in mites, all exposure will increase the probability of tolerance development. The idea to contaminate the wax with acaricides is old and will not work. One reason is the barrier to acaricide diffusion caused by the bee larva cocoon. Another reason not to contaminate the wax with pyrethroids is that we at present know no methods to "clean" the wax. You may dilute contaminated wax, but the residues put in there will not degrade. Keep your wax clean, Ingemar Fries ************************************************************************** Department of Entomology E-mail: Ingemar.Fries@entom.slu.se Swedish Univ. Agric. Sci. Tel: Int+ 46 18 67 20 73 Box 7044 Fax: Int+ 46 18 67 28 90 S-750 07 Uppsala Sweden ************************************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 12:28:22 -0700 Reply-To: mwr@hotcity.com Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Michael Reddell Subject: Re: Mean Hive-What to do? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit MR WILLIAM L HUGHES JR. wrote: > > REQUEEN!! > > Bill Hughes > Bent Holly Honey Farm > Brighton, TN USA > > < bees = > for, one of them has a personality of a mean wet cat and the other is > = > more like a friendly kitten. Why is this? (They are about 1/4 miles > = > apart.) I was thinking that if I didn't do anything to the mean hive > = > for six weeks, all the mean bees would have been replaced by new > young = > bees and the temperament might be better. Is this true?=20 > > Charles in Salt Lake City > Charles@Apeleon.net>> IF you requeen then your theory is correct. The secret is in the genes. In 6 weeks or so your entire worker population will be from the new queen. It's also important that you get that new queen from someone who breeds for gentleness. These days most breeders do. Michael Reddell mwr@hotcity.com http://www.hotcity.com/~mwr ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 24 May 1997 07:34:16 +1100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Nick Wallingford Subject: Re: Carolina News and Question on Wet Honey In-Reply-To: <14273759409760@systronix.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT > A few hives are now in feijoa, though it's bloom doesn't seem very > interesting to honeybees. In a twenty minute observation yesterday, I saw > three wasps, three honeybees and one carpenter bee working feijoa bloom. > The carpenter bee was by far the most effective pollinator. We used to > have a tiny solitary bee that worked feijoa intensely, though it seems to > be badly decimated, probably by pesticides on cotton. The last year this > bee was abundant, was the last good feijoa crop. In NZ they've demonstrated pretty conclusively that it is bird pollination for the most part, which came as a surprise to me... (\ Nick Wallingford {|||8- home nickw@wave.co.nz (/ work nw1@boppoly.ac.nz NZ Beekeeping http://www.wave.co.nz/pages/nickw/nzbkpg.htm ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 15:35:24 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Frank & Phronsie Humphrey Subject: Re: Should We Still Be Feeding Bees? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ---------- From: Charles Hatton To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU Subject: Should We Still Be Feeding Bees? Date: Thursday, May 22, 1997 9:44 PM We have two hives. They are a half of a mile apart. One hive is still sucking the sugar water like crazy. The other hive is not eating anything. How is it possible that one hive is eating like crazy, and the other isn't eating anything? Is this normal? They are eating a quart of sugar water per day (2 cups of water, 4 cups of sugar). Charles and Charley Salt Lake City, UT, USA Charles@apeleon.net ---------- I have found that a good rule to follow is that the bees will take sugar syrup only if nectar is sufficient unavailable at the hive. The hive that is not taking syrup probably has a large enough field force to supply them with enough. So keep feeding but don't put on supers. As soon as they stop taking syrup remove the feeders and super up. Frank Humphrey beekeepr@cdc.net ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 18:08:00 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "George W.D. Fielder" Subject: FW: Mean Hive-What to do? BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU ++++ Hi all I have been following this thread with interest. I would add to Michael Reddell's comment that I read in one of Brother Adams's books that the agressiveness of worker bees in a hive is predominantly determined by their fathers, i.e. the drones that the queen mated with. Indeed most breeders select for gentleness (among other traits), but if the queens are open-mated the first generation (F1) will most llikely react per the genes of the less controlled source. If that queen is used to produce daughter queens, then those daughters have the gentleness of their mother and the unknown of their father in equal probability. I also remember from the same book that it is only the F1 generation that shows this tendency to predominantly inherit agressiveness from the drone. Hence, later generations inherit predominantly from THEIR father's not their grandfathers in preference to their grandmothers. I ask David Eyre and others to add to this and/or correct. David, do you do anything to saturate your mating area with drones with desirable traits for open mating? And thanks for your recent posting on an easy method of queen rearing. ... george ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 19:38:46 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ted Wout Subject: Re: Taming a mean hive MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 "Paul Cronshaw, D.C." wrote: >>SO naturally I do not want to look thru this hive for a queen. What is= the quickest way to flush out a bad queen in a mean hive without pulling apar= t their home? I think we discussed this topic in a previous thread. It boiled down to a decision between the mean bees or the wife going!!<< I would risk the ankle stings again to switch places between this hive an= d one of your very calm hives. Once all of the mean field bees have left t= o get nectar they'll return to your calm hive. The foragers from the calm will return to your mean hive. The housekeepers in the mean hive will be= younger and not so quick to attack. Now you can go in and find the queen= =2E You don't want to switch places with a weak calm hive though because they= may fight on the landing board. Don't wait too long to requeen after switching because mean bees will grow up and become foragers continuing your problem. I did this with a mean hive and it worked fine for me. Ted Wout Red Oak, TX ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 21:18:28 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Steven A. Creasy" Subject: Bee Facts Sorry to bother the list with this, but.. A while back there were several posts on nifty honeybee facts (miles per day flown, honey load per flight etc) I have inadvertantly deleted these, and would appreciate anyone who has them sending them to me personally, or if anyone remembers the month, I can get them from the logs. Thanks! Steve Creasy- (\ Maryville, Tennessee USA {|||8- Proverbs 24:13,25:16 (/ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 20:32:13 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Walter T. Weller" Subject: Fluvalinate-contaminated honey Ever since I've been in beekeeping, I've been told not to leave Apistan strips in the hive during a honey flow, or the honey would become contaminated with fluvalinate. Well, sure it would. That stands to reason. But what nobody has ever told me is, what difference does it make? Is there any reliable information that fluvalinate has adverse effects on humans, in the quantities likely to be absorbed by the honey? I strongly doubt it. If this were a real hazard, the FDA would never have approved fluvalinate for uncontrolled use by beekeepers. Some of us idiots would surely "misuse" the material, and the Feds wouldn't accept this possibility if there were any real risk. Walter Weller Post Office Box 270 Wakefield, Louisiana 70784 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 22:11:32 -0400 Reply-To: gwalter@massmed.org Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Gert-Paul Walter Subject: Re: Smoker fuel MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In the past I've used burlap, sumac, pine needles, paper, and other things. I now use the method described in Bee Culture several years ago. I built a 1/8" mesh wire cage inside the smoker fitted to the shape and stuff it with sawdust. It smoldered overnight recently when I didn't block the entrance well enough. I use the smoker for hours without having to refill the fuel. It starts with a match and a small handful of newspaper - soooo easy!. Gert Walter ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 22:00:14 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Paul Cronshaw, D.C." Subject: Re: Can bees use two entrances?? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Richard, Problem with an entrance above the queen excluder is that bees will bring in pollen and store it in combs meant for honey only. How will they carry this pollen down thru the excluder to feed the brood? I also find that wax moths will attack a frame with pollen in it but not a honey frame. Pollen in the honey supers may be OK if you want to have lots of pollen particles in your extracted honey to help desensitize people in your area from allergens. There is truth to the idea of getting honey from a local beekeeper to fight allergies. Paul Cronshaw DC Santa Barbara, CA USA Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 08:31:40 -0500 From: RICHARD BARNES Subject: Re: Can bees use two entrances?? I routinely use 2 entrances, one is the normal entrance on the bottom of the hive and the second is in the first super above the queen excluder. The "super entrance" is a 3/4 inch hole and I put a small landing board below the entrance. The field bees seem to like the going straight to the super and not having to fight the queen excluder. Richard Barnes rbarnes@halnet.com At 08:12 PM 5/22/97 -0600, you wrote: >One of our hives has a space between the two supers and the bees are using the space and the normal entrance to fly in and out. Is this a problem? Should we seal the space? > >Charles and Charley >Charles@apeleon.net ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 21:44:27 -0800 Reply-To: beeman@Alaska.NET Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Tom & Carol Elliott Organization: Home Subject: Re: Taming a mean hive MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Paul Cronshaw, D.C. wrote: > SO naturally I do not want to look thru this hive for a queen. What is the > quickest way to flush out a bad queen in a mean hive without pulling apart > their home? I think we discussed this topic in a previous thread. I do not recall if this method was discussed the other day or not, but I will give it a shot anyhow. I have not tried this, as I have never had a "mean" hive yet. I have seen some, but that is another story, and I surely sympathize with the 20 plus stings per ankle. I've been there, but only due to my own foolishness. You can make a nuc with a new queen (on top of, or beside the old hive), then, after a few days of getting established you can move the old hive accross the yard. The older, and presumably more defensive, bees will then return to the old location. The hive is then, theoretically, milder mannered and the old queen can be removed with less pain, and the workers united with the new hive at the old location. Did that make any sense? I have tried moving the hive when I waited too late in the year to take off the honey. Bees, at least in Alaska, don't like that much. Wish you well with your problem. - - - - - - - - - - - - "Test everything. Hold on to the good." (1 Thessalonians 5:21) Tom Elliott Eagle River, Alaska U.S.A. beeman@alaska.net ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 24 May 1997 06:56:07 -0700 Reply-To: mister-t@clinic.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Bill Truesdell Subject: Re: Fluvalinate-contaminated honey MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Walter T. Weller wrote: > > Ever since I've been in beekeeping, I've been told not to leave Apistan > strips in the hive during a honey flow, or the honey would become > contaminated with fluvalinate. > > Well, sure it would. That stands to reason. > > But what nobody has ever told me is, what difference does it make? Is > there any reliable information that fluvalinate has adverse effects on > humans, in the quantities likely to be absorbed by the honey? > > I strongly doubt it. If this were a real hazard, the FDA would never > have approved fluvalinate for uncontrolled use by beekeepers. Some of us > idiots would surely "misuse" the material, and the Feds wouldn't accept > this possibility if there were any real risk. The only thing that would happen to beekeepers, when Apistan is found in honey sold to the public, is what happened to Apple growers with Alar, another harmless pesticide. Bill Truesdell Bath, ME ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 24 May 1997 09:18:51 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: David Green Subject: Re: FW: Mean Hive-What to do? In a message dated 97-05-23 18:16:31 EDT, george.fielder@hydro.on.ca (George W.D. Fielder) writes: << I ask David Eyre and others to add to this and/or correct. David, do you do anything to saturate your mating area with drones with desirable traits for open mating? And thanks for your recent posting on an easy method of queen rearing. >> During the winter we remove all nasty bees from our queen rearing area. I don't want these to produce any drones. I probably should be more vigorous about removing weak ones, etc, because they may carry suceptibility to tracheal mites, chalkbrood and other bad traits. I've been more casual about this, because usually weaker hives don't raise drones in the early spring anyway. Pollinator@aol.com Dave Green, PO Box 1200, Hemingway, SC 29554 (Dave & Jan's Pollination Service, Pot o'Gold Honey Co.) Practical Pollination Home Page Dave & Janice Green http://users.aol.com/pollinator/polpage1.html ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 24 May 1997 09:56:22 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ian Watson Subject: Re: Bees in a house again... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ---------- > From: Paul Cronshaw, D.C. > Welcome to the world of BEE-REMOVAL. > > Of your 3 choices I would opt for the first one - the cone/bait hive > technique. I have done a number of this form of bee removals over the > years. They are surprisingly effective and a means to increase a nuc hive > quicky due to 2 laying queens. Problem is that it leaves a dead colony Ok, Thanks Paul and others. One more question: when using the bait/cone method, do you include a queen with the frame or frames of brood, and how many frames also? Thanks, Ian Watson ian@gardener.com St. Catharines, Canada (near Niagara Falls) real estate agent gardener homebrewer baritone beekeeper--> 5 colonies, 5 nucs on order ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 24 May 1997 18:25:43 +0200 Reply-To: jtemp@xs4all.nl Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jan Tempelman Organization: Home Subject: Re: Fluvalinate-contaminated honey Comments: To: mister-t@clinic.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-2 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Walter T. Weller wrote: > The only thing that would happen to beekeepers, when Apistan is found in > honey sold to the public, is what happened to Apple growers with Alar, > another harmless pesticide. > Bill Truesdell > Bath, ME and, that is>>>>>>>>>>>>>>..........................?????? -- Jan Tempelman / Ineke Drabbe | EMAIL:jtemp@xs4all.nl Sterremos 16 3069 AS Rotterdam, The Netherlands Tel/Fax (SOMETIMES) XX 31 (0)10-4569412 homepage webside: http://www.xs4all.nl/~jtemp/index2.html with some pages in english on solitary bees. NEW PAGES ON THE FIGHT ON THE VARROA MITES. http://www.xs4all.nl/~jtemp/dronemethod.html ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 24 May 1997 11:25:40 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Charles Hatton Subject: How often to examine brood chamber frames?? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Is it O.K. to weekly, biweekly, or monthly to remove each frame from the = brood chambers to examine them? Is it O.K. to rearrange the order of = the frames on a regular basis in the brood chambers? Charley & Charles Charles@apeleon.net ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 24 May 1997 13:10:21 -0500 Reply-To: snapshot@pbmo.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "M. C. Michel" Organization: Snap Shot Subject: Re: Bee Suit Patch MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------7AA81CBB44D5E0A08A5BB741" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------7AA81CBB44D5E0A08A5BB741 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I have a "Mann Lake" Honeymaker. After some problems at first, i.e. lots of bees in my head gear, I found it works great. I had to stop wearing a hat. It seems that when I wear a hat, the bill lifts the veil and gaps the velcro. I was working a 24 colony apiary, by the time I finished, I had a cranial apairum. Now for the question: does anyone know where I can get a custom patch made? I want MY company on the suit, not Mann Lake. Where can I get a patch designed and sewn? Thanks, Chris M ******************** "Volant, faciunt, floremus" ******************** (they fly, they make, we prosper) --------------7AA81CBB44D5E0A08A5BB741 Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii; name="vcard.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: Card for snapshot@pbmo.net Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="vcard.vcf" begin: vcard fn: snapshot@pbmo.net n: ;snapshot@pbmo.net email;internet: snapshot@pbmo.net x-mozilla-cpt: ;0 x-mozilla-html: FALSE end: vcard --------------7AA81CBB44D5E0A08A5BB741-- ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 24 May 1997 14:48:53 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Richard E Leber Subject: Re: Bee Suit Patch Comments: To: snapshot@pbmo.net Hi ya'll, Chris M asks: > >Now for the question: does anyone know where I can get a custom patch >made? I want MY company on the suit, not Mann Lake. Where can I get >a >patch designed and sewn? > > We have found two solutions here in Mobile. For a small quantity of high quality 'up scale' work check on local embroidery shops. Our local association designed art work for club shirts and jackets and found a local outfit to do the work. Ask for recommendations from trophy shops, school athletic departments and sporting good suppliers. The second choice, low cost - high volume, look for the screen printers around town. Once the "screens" are produced unlimited mass printings are cheap! This works great for festivals, fairs and state conventions. With a little planning allowances can be made for changes in dates (ie. spring '97, convention 1997, fall festival) requiring only one new screen for repeat design use. BIG cost savings for a fund raiser. For your business and only a few items I would approach the piece rate work of the embroidery shop. Cost will vary with size, number of colors and design. Most shops, even the cottage industry, now work with computer driven machines with scanners so take along any design your heart desires or choose from what they have available. Rick Leber, Beekeeping since 1987 Mobile, Alabama ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 24 May 1997 15:46:13 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: David Green Subject: Re: How often to examine brood chamber frames?? In a message dated 97-05-24 14:04:54 EDT, Charles@apeleon.net (Charles Hatton) writes: << Is it O.K. to weekly, biweekly, or monthly to remove each frame from the brood chambers to examine them? Is it O.K. to rearrange the order of the frames on a regular basis in the brood chambers? >> It's a good way to keep the bees demoralized and unproductive. Unless there is a problem, we go through each hive thoroughly, only once per year, in the spring. At that time, every frame is looked at. The rest of the year, we try not to disturb the brood nest. We do periodically pull one frame to check for foulbrood. Otherwise, we leave them alone, unless they are weak, lightweight, or have other obvious problems. In the spring we pick up each hive, and set a replacement hive in its place. As we go through the frames, we may split it, making up nucs, or just generally evaluate queen, brood, and comb. If rot is beginning in the box or bottom, we can replace at that time. Besides culling poor comb or broken frames, I would not want to do much rearrangement of the brood nest. They know how they want it; why should we fight them? If you started packages with foundation, and you did not have comb for the outside frames, you will want to move those two frames in before they draw them, because the bees are apt to make a lot of bridge comb from the foundation to the wall, instead of drawing them out. So I do recommend trading them for a drawn frame. We do not place foundation in that position, if at all avoidable. Almost all deep comb is drawn in the supers, where the bees do a better job. These are made up with one or two newly drawn comb in the center, and one older comb on each outside wall. The drawn comb in the center entices the bees into the box to work, and the wall combs prevent them from spoiling those frames. Pollinator@aol.com Dave Green, PO Box 1200, Hemingway, SC 29554 (Dave & Jan's Pollination Service, Pot o'Gold Honey Co.) Practical Pollination Home Page Dave & Janice Green http://users.aol.com/pollinator/polpage1.html ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 07:57:26 +1100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Nick Wallingford Subject: Re: Poisonous Honey In-Reply-To: <05595324314876@systronix.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT > In New Zealand the honey of Coriana arborea is very poisonous. Strictly speaking, it is the honeydew gathered from tutu (the common name, pronounced 'toot') that is poisonous. There are two restricted areas in NZ where beekeepers have requirements to either move beehives out or not have the hives more than 3 boxes high and not take surplus after a particular date. The problem is seasonal, and only in some seasons. The honeydew is produced when the passionvine hopper nymph stage chews into the tutu plant. If there are enough of the hoppers, and enough of the tutu, and the summer is so hot that most all other sources fail, then bees will gather the dew. And even a small amount of it is poisonous. No commercial extracted honey ever implicated in a poisoning, and with the restricted zones in place, it has only been an isolated occurance. But beekeepers near the zones are very aware of the potential for a real marketing disaster (at least I hope that they are, and remain so!!!) if people were to be poisoned by honey. (\ Nick Wallingford {|||8- home nickw@wave.co.nz (/ work nw1@boppoly.ac.nz NZ Beekeeping http://www.wave.co.nz/pages/nickw/nzbkpg.htm ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 24 May 1997 16:24:01 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Mike Worrell Subject: Re: Honeybee Cartoon Call the National Honey Board. They have some clip art of cartoon bees that I have used. Some may require some 'WHITEOUT" but they do work for my use. Mike ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 24 May 1997 17:22:18 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Kirk Jones Subject: Re: Looking for BEE SKEPS Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Dear Maurice, I was wondering what you do to celebrate St. Ambrose Day there. Are there any traditions? Because of the nature of our business we have to do this in the summer, But I want to keep the focus on the bees, my DH has agreed to do a bee beard and we will have candle dipping and soap making demonstrations using honey and beeswax Oh and also an herb walk and high tea.St Ambrose is not really celebrated here in the states. We have St Nickolaus Day though on Dec 5th. Do you have bee skeps there? I'm thinking that I will have to make one in order to get a good one as no one replied to my query yet. Sharon *Kirk Jones/ Sleeping Bear Apiaries /971 S. Pioneer Rd./Beulah,MI 49617 *Sharon Jones/ BeeDazzled Candleworks /6289 River Rd./ Benzonia, MI 49616 e-mail b-man@aliens.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 09:47:57 +1200 Reply-To: beeman@insurer.com Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jonathan KP Marshall Organization: Taranaki Honey Supplies Subject: Re: Carolina News and Question on Wet Honey MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Nick Wallingford wrote: > > > A few hives are now in feijoa, though it's bloom doesn't seem very > > interesting to honeybees. In a twenty minute observation yesterday, I saw > > three wasps, three honeybees and one carpenter bee working feijoa bloom. > > The carpenter bee was by far the most effective pollinator. We used to > > have a tiny solitary bee that worked feijoa intensely, though it seems to > > be badly decimated, probably by pesticides on cotton. The last year this > > bee was abundant, was the last good feijoa crop. > > In NZ they've demonstrated pretty conclusively that it is bird > pollination for the most part, which came as a surprise to me... Nick I thought that the position is that we should encourage interprises in the bee industry. Most know that bees don't pollinate feijoas, but the oor orchardist that lies awake at night worrying about his/her crop doesn't want to know that. Instead they would rather part with some money to make them feel good, or at least doing as much as they can. We should help these poor beekeepers that suffer from all the dieseases known to man to make some more money. Jon ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 00:06:38 +0200 Reply-To: jtemp@xs4all.nl Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jan Tempelman Organization: Home Subject: Re: Poisonous Honey MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-2 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Nick Wallingford > But beekeepers near the zones are very > aware of the potential for a real marketing disaster (at least I > hope that they are, and remain so!!!) if people were to be > poisoned by honey. How poisonous is it?? unconscious, heart collepse, even dead?? -- Jan Tempelman / Ineke Drabbe | EMAIL:jtemp@xs4all.nl Sterremos 16 3069 AS Rotterdam, The Netherlands Tel/Fax (SOMETIMES) XX 31 (0)10-4569412 homepage webside: http://www.xs4all.nl/~jtemp/index2.html with some pages in english on solitary bees. NEW PAGES ON THE FIGHT ON THE VARROA MITES. http://www.xs4all.nl/~jtemp/dronemethod.html ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 24 May 1997 18:22:41 -0800 Reply-To: beeman@Alaska.NET Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Tom & Carol Elliott Organization: Home Subject: Re: How often to examine brood chamber frames?? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit David Green wrote: In reference to; > << Is it O.K. to weekly, biweekly, or monthly to remove each frame from the > brood chambers to examine them? Is it O.K. to rearrange the order of the > frames on a regular basis in the brood chambers? >> > It's a good way to keep the bees demoralized and unproductive. I check my brood nest on pretty much a weekly basis. They have yet to become unproductive, and they show no signs of "demoralization". A commercial operation cannot pay the attention to a hive that a hobbiest can, but to make a statement like that above is irresponsible. I routinely watch my queen lay eggs, watch foragers do their dances and see normal activity at all times. There "MAY" be a scientificaly measurable reduction in productivity as a result of weekly inspections, but you could not prove it by my experience. Charley, go for it. That is the way to learn about bees, and it will not do any noticible damage to either your bees, or your honey crop. If you find something strange, you could save your hive from an early demise. The only condition is don't rough the bees up. Move carefully and gently to avoid mashing or rolling bees. The life you save may be your queen. -- "Test everything. Hold on to the good." (1 Thessalonians 5:21) Tom Elliott Eagle River, Alaska U.S.A. beeman@alaska.net ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 24 May 1997 23:23:05 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Beverly Ellen Stanley Subject: Re: Three swarms from two hives?!?!?!? The week after Easter our one hive swarmed here in NJ. I hadn't gone into it because it had been cool and I was afraid I would chill the brood. While we were away for Easter, we had several very warm days. I had left a lot of honey on for the winter because I thought we were going to have another snowy one. At any rate, they took off and stopped at the highest pine in our neighbor's yard, which was over 20 ft. high. Yes, I went up the tree with a two-story ladder and a pruning hook, broke off the branch only to have it land right in front of me (at least not on my head!), put it in a box, and figured all was well. We put they whole clump of bees into the hive and shut them up for the night. A week later, the "mother" hive swarmed again! Up a shorter pine this time in our own yard. Got it and figured that had to be it. Three days later, you guessed it. Third split. Landed in a climbing rose bush over the kids' swing set. That was the toughest one. Couldn't tell if I was being stung or stuck with thorns. All three hives are doing fine, and the "mother" hive is still the strongest. I found out that it swarmed too because, being new at this, we didn't know about switching the bottom super to the top. We sure know now. It hasn't swarmed anymore. We also pinched all of the queen cells and added a super. (We had already added one after the first swarm!) Hope you got your swarm. Bev ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 24 May 1997 23:08:10 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Dave from Scranton Subject: Starlines V. Midnites MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Hi Folks, The first week of this month I recieved a package of Starlines and a package of Midnites. The Starlines came on Thursday and the Midnites came on friday. I put them both in with no problems. they are next to each other about 3 feet a part. Each got 5 drawn out frames and 5 new frames. Only difference was on the Starlines, I accidently pulled out the wrong cork and the queen was able to get out faster, than having to wait until the candy was eaten away. Now after being in almost 3 weeks, they both have eggs and pollen. I have seen both queens and they look good. But the Starlines are screaming away bringing in tons of pollen and have taken almost 4 quarts of syrup. And the Midnites are not taking in as much pollen and have taken less than 2 quarts of syrup. There seems to be more activity goinging in and out of the Starlines than the Midnites. Is this ok? Is it just the difference between the two strains or is there something wrong? ****************************************************************************** Dave D. Cawley, Maitre d' | The Internet Cafe | Scranton, Pennsylvania | (717) 344-1969 | dave@scranton.com | ****************************************************************************** URL => http://www.scranton.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 01:10:32 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ted Wout Subject: Re: Bees in a house again... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Ian Watson wrote: >>Ok, Thanks Paul and others. One more question: when using the bait/con= e method, do you include a queen with the frame or frames of brood, and how= many frames also?<< The removal that I did this spring was with a few frames of brood that included swarm cells. Until the swarm cells didn't produce a live queen,= I didn't have an idea of how well the bees might be attracted to the bait hive. There were always some bees hanging around the cone all night long= and the following day. After I realized that the swarm cells that I included in the hive were not going to produce a queen, I introduced a mated queen. Then the bees really took to the bait hive. There were nev= er bees hanging around the cone after that. Based upon that experience, I would say that you should have a laying que= en in your bait hive. Use a weak hive or one that you just started and are sure that is queen-right. Ted Wout Red Oak, TX ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 01:03:22 -0700 Reply-To: mwr@hotcity.com Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Michael Reddell Subject: Re: Bees in a house again... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ted Wout wrote: > > Ian Watson wrote: > >>Ok, Thanks Paul and others. One more question: when using the bait/cone > method, do you include a queen with the frame or frames of brood, and how > many frames also?<< > > The removal that I did this spring was with a few frames of brood that > included swarm cells. Until the swarm cells didn't produce a live queen, I > didn't have an idea of how well the bees might be attracted to the bait > hive. There were always some bees hanging around the cone all night long > and the following day. After I realized that the swarm cells that I > included in the hive were not going to produce a queen, I introduced a > mated queen. Then the bees really took to the bait hive. There were never > bees hanging around the cone after that. > > Based upon that experience, I would say that you should have a laying queen > in your bait hive. Use a weak hive or one that you just started and are > sure that is queen-right. Ted's deduction is correct. The bait hive should be queenright and functional. Otherwise it isn't an adequate enticement to the displaced workers from the colony in the wall. The cone method displaces the vast majority of workers from their colony, and having no better option available, they drift into the bait hive. With this method the queen from the colony in the wall rarely (if ever) leaves through the cone. The work force is locked out and goes elsewhere but the queen and a few die-hard workers remain to the bitter end. Thus it's important for the bait hive to have a working queen or else you'll just end up with a collection of queenless workers even if you can entice them to go in. You only need to include enough brood to entice the bees to stay. European honeybees are very reluctant to abandon brood. A single frame of brood in various stages with attending bees and a laying queen is actually enough. This discussion raises an interesting point. Since this method doesn't recover the queen from the colony in the wall, it would not be ideal in the case where you find a colony that has a documentable history of many consecutive years uninterrupted occupancy in a mite infested area. Why? Because it would be really nice to retrieve a feral queen with such a survival history. I recently picked up a swarm that issued from such a location. It's much too early to tell if they are mite resistant but I'm going to leave them untreated and see what happens. Not expecting much but keeping my fingers crossed. Michael Reddell mwr@hotcity.com http://www.hotcity.com/~mwr ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 01:28:34 -0700 Reply-To: mwr@hotcity.com Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Michael Reddell Subject: Stale smoke, lost hive tool MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I generally try to have a smoker and hive tool in my car all during the active beekeeping months, and for several years I had the unpleasant strong odor of stale smoke lingering in the car. I also tended to misplace the hive tool. Then I stumbled onto a pretty nice solution to the problem. I found a surplus ammo box that was the exact size to fit my smoker in. It's 5.5"x10"x11" and air tight. When I finish using the smoker I drop it and a hive tool into the box and close it up. The smoker dies out quickly for lack of oxygen, and no smoke gets into my car. Then when I open the box, the unburned fuel is still ready to use and my hive tool hasn't been misplaced. This simple box has become one of my favorite beekeeping gadgets. Michael Reddell mwr@hotcity.com http://www.hotcity.com/~mwr ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 06:52:24 -0700 Reply-To: mister-t@clinic.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Bill Truesdell Subject: Re: Fluvalinate-contaminated honey MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sorry. Still learning that the audience is large on the list and all news is not universal. Some environmentalists killed the apple business for a few years with the Alar scare in the US. Long story, and it took a long time for them to recover. Apples had a positive, healthful image before the scare, just like honey. If "pesticide" is found in honey, the same thing will happen to honey, no matter how "safe" the pesticide. Bill Truesdell Bath, ME ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 08:04:37 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Aaron D Wolfenbarger Subject: Uping th score <<(531 recipients).>>> I noticed that is up a little more !!! Aaron 1st year 3 hives Clinton, TN ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 08:46:09 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: John M Thorp Subject: Re: Uping th score Just like a church,bar,fraternal orginization or wherever you get your fellowship from,eh? Take Care and GBY,John in Homestead,also at On Sun, 25 May 1997 08:04:37 EDT Aaron D Wolfenbarger writes: ><<(531 recipients).>>> > >I noticed that is up a little more !!! > >Aaron >1st year 3 hives >Clinton, TN ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 24 May 1997 22:31:49 +0000 Reply-To: barry@birkey.com Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Barry Birkey Organization: BIRKEY.COM Subject: Re: How often to examine brood chamber frames?? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Tom & Carol Elliott wrote: > > David Green wrote: > > In reference to; > > > << Is it O.K. to weekly, biweekly, or monthly to remove each frame from the > > brood chambers to examine them? Is it O.K. to rearrange the order of the > > frames on a regular basis in the brood chambers? >> > > > It's a good way to keep the bees demoralized and unproductive. > > I check my brood nest on pretty much a weekly basis. They have yet to > become unproductive, and they show no signs of "demoralization". A > commercial operation cannot pay the attention to a hive that a hobbiest > can, but to make a statement like that above is irresponsible. I > routinely watch my queen lay eggs, watch foragers do their dances and > see normal activity at all times. There "MAY" be a scientificaly > measurable reduction in productivity as a result of weekly inspections, > but you could not prove it by my experience. Hello Tom - I think there may have been a misunderstanding as to what Dave was saying. I think his comments were directed to the part about rearranging the order of the brood frames on a regular basis for which I think he's right on. On the other hand, the other issue about how often to inspect is definitely open for further discussion and I would favor more your approach than just once a year or what ever it was that Dave said. -Barry -- Barry Birkey West Chicago, Illinois USA barry@birkey.com http://www.birkey.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 23:03:08 +0900 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: j h & e mcadam Subject: Re: Taming a mean hive Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Paul Cronshaw wrote: >In one of my apiary yards with 7 hives, my largest and most active hive is >the meanest. I call it Hive X. All others I can work with veil only on a >nice warm day. >SO naturally I do not want to look thru this hive for a queen. What is the >quickest way to flush out a bad queen in a mean hive without pulling apart >their home? I think we discussed this topic in a previous thread. It >boiled down to a decision between the mean bees or the wife going!! I have had one or two very aggressive hives. On advice from a queen breeder, I turned the mean hive at 45 degree angle and placed another hive so the entrance was where the mean hive had been. The new hive was stocked with unsealed and sealed brood with attendant bees and a quiet queen - it does not have to be very strong as it will immediately be reinforced with all the foraging bees from the mean hive. However all bees raised from then on will be descendants of the new queen and the hive seems to quieten down almost immediately. You are left with a mean hive with only the nurse bees and the queen. After a week, it is usually possible to work through this hive and locate the queen quickly and kill her. The nurse bees have not yet acquired the same aggressive tendencies. You can then unite the brood and remaining bees to the new hive with newspaper and you will have a very productive hive acquiring almost no stings in the process. Worked for me! Betty McAdam HOG BAY APIARY Penneshaw, Kangaroo Island j.h. & e. mcadam Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: j h & e mcadam Subject: Re: Three swarms from two hives?!?!?!? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Kevin Palm wrote: >Last Sunday, due to my own negligence and procrastination in taking the >appropriate actions, my two hives swarmed. I have two Buckfast hives, >one in three deeps, both having queen excluders and two supers on. My >question is this: my two hives produced three simultaneous swarms!! I >haven't been in to check the queen cells yet (nasty weather and too >busy), but is it possible that I had two queens in one of my hives >without knowing it?? From everything I've read, the new virgins don't >hatch out until appx. a week after the primary swarm has issued (I heard >"piping" in both my established hives last night, so I assume the new >queens have arrived). It just doesn't make sense to me. Can someone >enlighten me?? Swarming is controlled by the entire hive population - if this is extremely high the bees are not averse to sending out swarms with virgin queens - increasing the chances of gene survival. This may happen simultaneously or within a few days after the primary swarm. Sometimes the secondary swarm is too small to be viable or accompanied by more than one of the newly hatched queens. I heard one report of finding 6 queens (presumably all virgins) in a captured swarm. These swarms can be very difficult to catch since even one queen left outside the cluster will attract the swarm back to her location. Betty McAdam HOG BAY APIARY Penneshaw, Kangaroo Island j.h. & e. mcadam Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Allen Dick Organization: The Beekeepers Subject: Re: How often to examine brood chamber frames?? In-Reply-To: <33876C55.56F@birkey.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT << Is it O.K. to weekly, biweekly, or monthly to remove each frame > from the brood chambers to examine them? Is it O.K. to rearrange > the order of the frames on a regular basis in the brood chambers? >> 1. "It's a good way to keep the bees demoralized and unproductive"... 2. "I check my brood nest on pretty much a weekly basis. They have yet to become unproductive, and they show no signs of "demoralization"... 3. "I think there may have been a misunderstanding as to what Dave was saying. I think his comments were directed to the part about rearranging the order of the brood frames on a regular basis for which I think he's right on. On the other hand, the other issue about how often to inspect is definitely open for further discussion and I would favor more your approach than just once a year or what ever it was that Dave said... I think of opening and rearranging hives (sorta) like open heart surgery. If it is performed for good reasons at an appropriate time by someone who is knowledgeable and careful, it can yield huge benefits, including survival and vigour where death or dwindling was imminent. Several successive operations may sometimes be required on any particular patient, with some exploratory surgery too in some cases. However, such manipulations done at a bad time by careless or ignorant persons can kill or do serious damage. When the lid comes off and the frames are moved around, the temperature regulation and organisation of the hive is upset for a period that *can* -- though ususally does not -- run into days. There are times when the ambient temperature is suitable and the hives are vigourous. At such times little harm is done by gently removing the lid for a while. Each successive manipulation inconveniences the bees, and there is a point where sufficient disruption is caused that the bees cannot repair it. In spring and summer, some fairly extreme things can be done -- even repeatedly -- without crossing that line. Brood can be split, brood chambers reversed, frames of brood and bees removed, queens killed and replaced, etc., without harm -- if done occasonally, and with wisdom. However, as summer passes and winter approaches, the bees have less time to repair any changes, and fewer interferences can be tolerated if the bees are to winter well. Rewmoving the lid on a nice day and removing a frame or two slowly and gently with a minimum of smoke and replacing everything promptly and smoothly -- as I think we are discussing here -- does very little harm in my opinion, and I think it could be done weekly without much, if any loss of production. The knowledge gained from such inspections could result in increased health and production in many cases. In others, the bees would be best if just supered at the right time and left alone. Allen Come see what I'm up to these days: http://www.internode.net/Honeybee/spring.htm ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 08:44:20 -0600 Reply-To: allend@internode.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Allen Dick Organization: The Beekeepers Subject: Re: Taming a mean hive In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.32.19970525140308.0067c848@kigateway.kin.on.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT > >SO naturally I do not want to look thru this hive for a queen. What is the > >quickest way to flush out a bad queen in a mean hive without pulling apart > >their home? ... > ... On advice from a queen breeder, I turned the mean hive at 45 degree angle and placed another hive > so the entrance was where the mean hive had been. The new hive was stocked > with unsealed and sealed brood with attendant bees and a quiet queen - it > does not have to be very strong as it will immediately be reinforced with > all the foraging bees from the mean hive. However all bees raised from then > on will be descendants of the new queen and the hive seems to quieten down > almost immediately. You are left with a mean hive with only the nurse bees > and the queen. After a week, it is usually possible to work through this > hive and locate the queen quickly and kill her... All this advice is right on the money, but I should mention that the bees *must be flying freely in considerable numbers* (without stopping to circle when coming and going) for these ideas to work. This usually means a flow is on. Otherwise, the bees will not drift into the new hive. They will just come back into the old hive no matter where you put it! Such circumstances are less ideal, but here are some more ideas: Smoking just before dusk (use a teaspoonful of 34-0-0 fertilizer in the smoker if necessary) and quickly breaking the hive up into several one box hives, each on a temporary floor of its own, may calm them down enough that each part can be checked quickly for a queen the next day. (Don't put any of the splits exactly where the parent hive was). Smaller hives are usually much friendlier and are also much easier to check for a queen. If you find her the next day, you can kill her and introduce a laying queen in a mailing cage and re-assemble the whole hive the way it was before. In the worst case it will become obvious in 3 or 4 days at most where the the queen is. At that later time you will have to decide whether queen cells are now established in the splits and how best to recombine the parts. Allen ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 24 May 1997 21:52:08 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Vince Coppola Subject: Re: Fluvalinate-contaminated honey MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Walter T. Weller wrote: >Is there any reliable information that fluvalinate has adverse effects on > humans, in the quantities likely to be absorbed by the honey? > > I strongly doubt it. If this were a real hazard, the FDA would never > have approved fluvalinate for uncontrolled use by beekeepers. Some of us > idiots would surely "misuse" the material, and the Feds wouldn't accept > this possibility if there were any real risk. Fluvalinate is hardly approved for uncontrolled use. It is only approved to be used according to the directions on the label just like other ag chemicals. Supposedly beekeepers can be trusted to use this material properly. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 19:03:13 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: David Green Subject: Re: How often to examine brood chamber frames?? Comments: To: beeman@alaska.net In a message dated 97-05-24 22:26:13 EDT, Tom Elliott beeman@alaska.net writes: << I check my brood nest on pretty much a weekly basis. They have yet to become unproductive, and they show no signs of "demoralization". A commercial operation cannot pay the attention to a hive that a hobbiest can, but to make a statement like that above is irresponsible. I routinely watch my queen lay eggs, watch foragers do their dances and see normal activity at all times. There "MAY" be a scientificaly measurable reduction in productivity as a result of weekly inspections, but you could not prove it by my experience.>> Yes there are scientific studies, that show that even just smoking a hive during a honey flow will stop productivity for a day or two, and reduce the total production. So I don't feel a bit irresponsible. I don't consider opening the cover to be bothering the bees much, but studies also show that production is greater if all the supers are added at once, rather than one or two at a time. <> Yes, if Charley does "go for it," he needs to disturb the colony as little as possible. So that's good advice. A lot depend on your purposes. If you want production, one thorough inspection in spring followed by a couple times to examine one frame throughout the year for foulbrood is best. If you are wanting to learn about the bees, great! Then Charley, go for it! Just be aware that they know best how they want to work, and we can get at cross purposes with endless manipulations. An old beekeeper told me when I was starting: Study the bees, and try to help them do what they want. Then you will succeed as a beekeeper. A good tool to study them is an observation hive. When I first started, I kept one for the summer on my kitchen counter, and they exited through a hole I bored in the wall. I learned a lot, though I didn't get as much work done as most summers. Since, I have tried to set one up in a nearby store each season. I still wind up spending too much time there, showing off the bees to the public. Pollinator@aol.com Dave Green, PO Box 1200, Hemingway, SC 29554 (Dave & Jan's Pollination Service, Pot o'Gold Honey Co.) Practical Pollination Home Page Dave & Janice Green http://users.aol.com/pollinator/polpage1.html ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 19:14:00 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Walter T. Weller" Subject: Re: Fluvalinate-contaminated honey On Sat, 24 May 1997 21:52:08 -0700 Vince Coppola writes: >Walter T. Weller wrote: > > >>Is there any reliable information that fluvalinate has adverse >effects on >> humans, in the quantities likely to be absorbed by the honey? >> >> I strongly doubt it. If this were a real hazard, the FDA would >never >> have approved fluvalinate for uncontrolled use by beekeepers. Some >of us >> idiots would surely "misuse" the material, and the Feds wouldn't >accept >> this possibility if there were any real risk. > > Fluvalinate is hardly approved for uncontrolled use. It is >only approved >to be used according to the directions on the label just like other ag >chemicals. >Supposedly beekeepers can be trusted to use this material properly. Hi, Vince. Thanks for the note. Let's get real, shall we? Don't you think that if the FDA were as trusting as you seem to suppose, we would surely have more acaricides approved for our trusted "controlled" use than just fluvalinate alone? And this is not the same situation as the use of commercial agricultural pesticides with proven harmful effects, nor of prescription drugs either. In each of those cases, a trained and licensed applicator is "trusted" with the deployment of the stuff in a proper manner, subject to loss of license and other penalties for misuse. If fluvalinate were indeed harmful to humans, we would assuredly have to call in licensed applicators to put strips in our hives and to take them out again. Have you tried to treat your termites yourself? Try to get the stuff to kill them with -- the good stuff that the Orkin man uses. Do you have any solid information on the subject, one way or the other? That's what I'm asking for. I don't, and can't find any. I'm being forced to the conclusion that fluvalinate is probably as harmful to humans as it is to bees -- that is, not at all. If the FDA thought otherwise fluvalinate would not have been released for us amateur hobbyists to put into beehives. But fluvalinate is a "pesticide", and therefore must be "controlled". There have to be rules. So we have rules. The rules we have are easy to follow, absolve the FDA of nonfeasance or negligence, and avoid public outcry. So everybody is happy. Bureaucracy at its benign-est. Best of all possible worlds. What we pay taxes for. I've about decided that it doesn't really matter whether my honey gets some fluvalinate in it as long as I don't sell it to others. Eating it isn't going to hurt me. In the meanwhile, though, (being a compulsive obeyer of rules), I will continue to keep the strips out of my hives during honey flows. Walter ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 21:19:53 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "MR WILLIAM L HUGHES JR." Subject: Starlines V. Midnites Dave, Wait till the Starlines are superceded. You will then have a mean hive of bees. Last spring I purchased 5 packages of Starlines to try them out. They did go like gang busters, but when the bees superceded their queens (some swarmed) the the queens raised from the Starline stock when mixed with whatever turned out to have a terrible disposition> I have re-queen all but one. That hive swarmed last month and the new queen is meaner than the others. For my money hybrids are not worth the trouble in dealing with their attitudes. Bill Hughes Bent Holly Honey Farm Brighton, Tennessee USA NHJV32A@prodigy.com << The first week of this month I received a package of Starlines and a package of Midnites. The Starlines came on Thursday and the Midnites came on friday. I put them both in with no problems. they are next to each other about 3 feet a part. Each got 5 drawn out frames and 5 new frames. Only difference was on the Starlines, I accidently pulled out the wrong cork and the queen was able to get out faster, than having to wait until the candy was eaten away. Now after being in almost 3 weeks, they both have eggs and pollen. I have seen both queens and they look good. But the Starlines are screaming away bringing in tons of pollen and have taken almost 4 quarts of syrup. And the Midnites are not taking in as much pollen and have taken less than 2 quarts of syrup. There seems to be more activity goinging in and out of the Starlines than the Midnites. Is this ok? Is it just the difference between the two strains or is there something wrong? ********************************************************************** ******** Dave D. Cawley>> ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 23:01:52 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Curtis L. Spacek" Subject: Re: Fluvalinate-contaminated honey MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit the FDA is part of the U S government right?need I say more? ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 22:15:17 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Paul Cronshaw, D.C." Subject: Re : Bee Removal Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Ian, I sometimes use a small swarm to make a bait hive for bee removal from stuctures. You want to use the least number of frames because there will be a large number of new incoming members. Recently I took a hive out of an oak tree. I used a nuc with 2 brood frames and a queen in a 9 5/8 hive body with plastic foundation. In 2 weeks, there was wall to wall bees. It is interesting but these field bees become a little lost and tend to hang out in the hive. Obviously there is some unbalance in the social hierarchy of the hive during this transition. So to get these bees working to draw out the plastic foundation, I put in a feeder frame with 1 part sugar and 2 parts water. GOod Luck. Paul Cronshaw DC Santa Barbara CA USA ****** Date: Sat, 24 May 1997 09:56:22 -0400 From: Ian Watson Subject: Re: Bees in a house again... ---------- > From: Paul Cronshaw, D.C. > Welcome to the world of BEE-REMOVAL. > > Of your 3 choices I would opt for the first one - the cone/bait hive > technique. I have done a number of this form of bee removals over the > years. They are surprisingly effective and a means to increase a nuc hive > quicky due to 2 laying queens. Problem is that it leaves a dead colony Ok, Thanks Paul and others. One more question: when using the bait/cone method, do you include a queen with the frame or frames of brood, and how many frames also? Thanks, Ian Watson ian@gardener.com St. Catharines, Canada (near Niagara Falls) real estate agent gardener homebrewer baritone beekeeper--> 5 colonies, 5 nucs on order ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 22:30:49 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Roy Nettlebeck Subject: Re: Fluvalinate-contaminated honey In-Reply-To: <33890B30.7A72@pop.flash.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Sun, 25 May 1997, Curtis L. Spacek wrote: > the FDA is part of the U S government right?need I say more? > Hi Curtis, You have a point. I spent 32 1/2 years working for the government. I have seen extremes both ways. In the early 60's I worked with radiation on nuclear power plants. We now have a safe level that is 1/8 of what we had then as a safe level.I worked 2 1/2 years with 2000 compounds that were under the control of the EPA. We were learning as we were going.We recieved a 13 million dollar fine for uncontroled PCB's. They are all over and in cars made before 1979. We beat most of the fines. The USDA will use most of the info provided by the producer as a grounds for OK-ing of the use of a compound.When an industry is in trouble and the need is great, the rules change. How about asbestos. The government knew that it was a health hazard in the 40's.We needed it for the war effort. It is hard to know how many people have died of cancer do to the use of asbestos. I have asbestosis and have been told by expert Doctors that if everything else in my body is ok, I will die of cancer , do to the asbestosis.They shure protected me. All chemicals have the potential to be harmful to humans.You can't drink a lot of salt water. Everyone must take the use of chemicals as a serious undertaking.Don't use them unless you have to and then only as directed.How safe they are only time will tell. Some things you can't get out of your system. Beekeepers need to keep the use of chemicals to an absolute minimum.We are to provide a healthy product for people to enjoy. Its in the Big Book. Honey is pure and sweet and good to the taste. If your out of line with that, your in trouble. We need the people that use honey every day to keep the knowledge that it is pure and sweet.We loose that because of a few and we loose the whole game.The red apple people here in Washington state will tell you why they cut down there Red D apple trees.They put in Granny smith so they could sell them.Atar was a misstake to make red apples even a deeper red. The mites are a problem. I did have some and lost 50 of 80 hives , two years ago. No mites now.People are still working on mint oils , so it is too soon to start everyone using them. Mint oils are not all the same. Each cutting is different. 3 cuttings a year.We need a norm so we are all on the same page.We have researchers working out some potential problems. It is toxic to bees if it is too strong.I don't expect beekeepers to stop using Apistan in the USA.We need a long term fix and it should be natural.Bee breeding is one way and it will take time to come to a genetic soulution. Lets all of us keep our eyes and minds open. We all can help and I know that the USDA has asked for our help.Lets give them a queen that seems to carry the genetic material that will fight the mite on there own.Don't worry about the chemical companys , they have plenty of other things to work on other than the mite.I know , my oldest Son just recieved his degree in Chemistry from the U of Washington. We are working with Honey Bees and they are special to all of nature.We can not afford to loose them or run too fast and not look far into the future for our children. Each one of us is responsible and looking at comments from around the world, some seem to be a little more careful than others. We can all learn from each other. God Bless Best Regards Roy ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 23:17:42 -0700 Reply-To: mwr@hotcity.com Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Michael Reddell Subject: Re: Fluvalinate-contaminated honey MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Curtis L. Spacek wrote: > > the FDA is part of the U S government right?need I say more? Following are my reactions to several recent contributions to this thread. I don't know anything at all about the toxicity of fluvalinate, and so I can't really add anthing useful on that, but I do know that a very effective pesticide for direct application is soapy water. Any brand of dish washing liquid you find under your kitchen sink will do the trick, and dish soap is a preferred method of destroying AHB colonies in places like Texas and southern California. It's clean and harmless (maybe even beneficial) except to the insects that get coated with it. The reason I bring this up is that the beekeepers involved in these exterminations have a problem. Dish soap is not a registered pesticide and therefore is illegal for professionals to apply. My understanding is that some people are working to get a particular brand of dish soap registered with the EPA so they can use it. Of coarse when they do, they'll have to manage a load of paperwork every time they reach under the sink! But the problem isn't really the government as much as the press. The alar thing is an excellent example. It doesn't really matter whether fluvalinate is toxic. It matters if the press thinks it has a scandal that can capture the imagination of the public. Maybe we just need to figure out how to capture the imagination of the press rather than waiting for them to imagine something on their own. We need to know the toxicity facts about fluvalinate, and we need to let the press know what we're up against. And we need to keep our noses clean in the mean time so we don't get burned. I can't eat all the honey my bees make, so I've got to sell it. I seem to be staying ahead of the mites for the most part without violating the label directions, so I don't see this as more than an iritating bureacratic entanglement. Michael Reddell mwr@hotcity.com http://www.hotcity.com/~mwr ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 22:51:17 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Paul Cronshaw, D.C." Subject: Re: Fluvalinate-contaminated honey Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Bill Truesdell brings up a good point with this posting. Who checks the content of "pesticides" in honey and how is it done? At what PPM does honey become unsellable/nonconsumable? We all know how to check for mites in a hive but what about honey? Is there a simple litmus test or must we resort to analysis by spectrophotometry? Paul Cronshaw DC Santa Barbara CA USA ****** Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 06:52:24 -0700 From: Bill Truesdell Subject: Re: Fluvalinate-contaminated honey Sorry. Still learning that the audience is large on the list and all news is not universal. Some environmentalists killed the apple business for a few years with the Alar scare in the US. Long story, and it took a long time for them to recover. Apples had a positive, healthful image before the scare, just like honey. If "pesticide" is found in honey, the same thing will happen to honey, no matter how "safe" the pesticide. Bill Truesdell Bath, ME ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 23:02:27 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Paul Cronshaw, D.C." Subject: Re: Taming a mean hive Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Thaks to all the helpful solutions to my mean Hive X problem. Since the big summer honey flow has started in the Santa Barbara area, and since this hive promises to collect the most honey this season (don't all aggressive hives have good production numbers), I am going to let this hive work its magic and then try the method as suggested by Betty McAdam. I will use one of the screen divider boards with have openings for several entrances, including a 45 degree one. I have several nucs with queens of known gentle nature waiting to be used for just this purpose. However, I have learned from previous experience that when a nuc is placed in the old hive location, you need to cage the new queen for a few days because the overhelming effect of foreign field bees can kill a queen. Paul Cronshaw DC Santa Barbara CA USA ****** Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 23:03:08 +0900 From: j h & e mcadam Subject: Re: Taming a mean hive Paul Cronshaw wrote: >In one of my apiary yards with 7 hives, my largest and most active hive is >the meanest. I call it Hive X. All others I can work with veil only on a >nice warm day. >SO naturally I do not want to look thru this hive for a queen. What is the >quickest way to flush out a bad queen in a mean hive without pulling apart >their home? I think we discussed this topic in a previous thread. It >boiled down to a decision between the mean bees or the wife going!! I have had one or two very aggressive hives. On advice from a queen breeder, I turned the mean hive at 45 degree angle and placed another hive so the entrance was where the mean hive had been. The new hive was stocked with unsealed and sealed brood with attendant bees and a quiet queen - it does not have to be very strong as it will immediately be reinforced with all the foraging bees from the mean hive. However all bees raised from then on will be descendants of the new queen and the hive seems to quieten down almost immediately. You are left with a mean hive with only the nurse bees and the queen. After a week, it is usually possible to work through this hive and locate the queen quickly and kill her. The nurse bees have not yet acquired the same aggressive tendencies. You can then unite the brood and remaining bees to the new hive with newspaper and you will have a very productive hive acquiring almost no stings in the process. Worked for me! Betty McAdam ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 02:27:37 -0700 Reply-To: mwr@hotcity.com Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Michael Reddell Subject: Wool MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I have been reading the discussions of mean bees and noticed some references to bees stinging especially around the ankles. That triggered a thought that might provide an explanation of why some of these colonies are misbehaving. Bees don't seem to mind if sheep wear wool, but they really are infuriated by people wearing wool. I've had colonies with perfect manners go into a general frenzy at my ankles when I forgot and wore wool socks. I'm very careful about baseball caps since many of them contain wool. There's a pretty good discussion about wool in ABC & XYZ. I haven't seen a good explanation for why bees hate wool on people so much. My personal and totally untested theory is that processed wool + human scent mimics the scent of some historical predator of bees, such as bears (or maybe even humans who, after all, have worn wool and robbed bees, probably at the same time, for thousands of years.) BTW, I think dark colors are over-rated as an irritant to bees. I work in black or dark colored T-shirts without a veil routinely - but only cotton or cotton-poly blends. I'm sure there's something to the white suit tradition but it's not usually a big deal. Wool definitely is. Michael Reddell mwr@hotcity.com http://www.hotcity.com/~mwr ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 19:10:07 +0900 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: j h & e mcadam Subject: Re: How often to examine brood chamber frames?? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Charles Hatton wrote: >Is it O.K. to weekly, biweekly, or monthly to remove each frame from the brood >chambers to examine them? Is it O.K. to rearrange the order of the frames on a >regular basis in the brood chambers? I agree with David Green that it is a very good way to demoralize the bees. However if queen excluders are part of your hive management, it is important to check the brood box on a regular basis - monthly or every 2 months at least. The reason is that the bees will fill the cells around the brood with honey and unless the quantity of fresh nectar coming in forces the house bees up through the queen excluder to find room for curing the hive may become restricted to the bottom box. The queen therefore has no room to lay and the population of the hive takes a dive. We check at least a month and include foundation or freshly drawn brood frames in the bottom box (outside of the brood) to keep the queen laying and the population expanding for the next honey flow. Frames mostly honey can be moved above the excluder where the bees will finish them off. Moving the order of the frames around or turning them about in the hive is definitely not recommended. Betty McAdam HOG BAY APIARY Penneshaw, Kangaroo Island j.h. & e. mcadam Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Richard Drutchas Organization: Bee Haven Honey Subject: comb orientation MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ive put out boxes and boxes of new perco plastic frames this spring and as could be expected some of the hives started building comb 90 degrees more or less to the comb I gave them. Lindauer found that bees orientate the comb using the earth's magnetic field. He also found that if the colony is moved it will make comb in the same direction it was going at its original stand. Now my question is could I move the the nonconformist hives around to make it easier to draw wax up my perco frames ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 08:00:16 -0700 Reply-To: mister-t@clinic.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Bill Truesdell Subject: Re: Fluvalinate-contaminated honey MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Walter, I agree that fluvalinate is probably harmless to humans, but I am getting more gun-shy about any "pesticide", organic or not. I recognize that most of what we eat can cause cancer if you distill out the cancer causing agent and feet a ton or so to a poor rat. But there are some pesticides that stay with you even if you only eat small amounts. If you are young and having a family, There might be enough to cause just a small genetic change, if the chemical bonds to a dna chain. The most recent group of pesticides were supposed to interfere with the hormones of insects and they are doing the same with larger animals, like alligators in Florida. Some lakes have few gators because of the chemical runoff. And the pesticides were supposed to be less harmful to the environment because they targeted specific insects. They are actually more harmful than the good old stuff. I use pesticides. Even sevin which is deadly to bees. So I am not a flaming environmentalist, but I would not want to contaminate my honey, and that includes mint and other flavored oils. I eat lots of my honey, but I also give it to my family and friends. I also have a mother-in-law who is allergic to shell fish. Could a honey contaminate be as deadly? She gets hospitalized if she eats a french fry cooked in the same oil as fried shrimp. Small amounts of peanuts in food can kill someone allergic to them. It just is not worth it, no matter how benign the add-on might be. But it might be a good way to get rid of mother-in-laws. Just kidding. You are a patient man to put up with all the words flung your way from just asking a simple question, which no one, including me, has answered. I think the reason is, no one knows for sure if fluvalinate is totally safe, since even broccolli is not. Just ask George Bush. Bill Truesdell Bath, ME ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 15:42:07 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Adrian Wenner Subject: Re: A Tip: Stale smoke, lost hive tool Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Michael Reddell wrote: >I generally try to have a smoker and hive tool in my car all during the >active beekeeping months, and for several years I had the unpleasant strong >odor of stale smoke lingering in the car. I also tended to misplace the >hive tool. Then I stumbled onto a pretty nice solution to the problem. I >found a surplus ammo box that was the exact size to fit my smoker in. It's >5.5"x10"x11" and air tight. When I finish using the smoker I drop it and a >hive tool into the box and close it up. The smoker dies out quickly for >lack of oxygen, and no smoke gets into my car. Then when I open the box, >the unburned fuel is still ready to use and my hive tool hasn't been >misplaced. > >This simple box has become one of my favorite beekeeping gadgets. I second that motion! For years I have used an ammo box for the same purpose. One must take care, however. The boxes I use require that one squeeze the bellows before latching down the cover. The rubber "o-ring" seal provides no chance for foul odors to get into the car. I also keep a hive tool (as well as a small screw cap glass jar with strike anywhere matches) in the case. Adrian Adrian M. Wenner (805) 893-2838 (UCSB office) Ecol., Evol., & Marine Biology (805) 893-8062 (UCSB FAX) Univ. of Calif., Santa Barbara (805) 963-8508 (home office & FAX) Santa Barbara, CA 93106 *********************************************************************** * "Discovery is to see what everyone else has seen, * * but to think what no one else has thought." * * --- Albert Szent-Gyorgyi * *********************************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 19:02:37 -0500 Reply-To: "midnitebee@cybertours.com"@cybertours.com Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Midnitebee <"midnitebee@cybertours.com"@CYBERTOURS.COM> Subject: Re: Starlines V. Midnites MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dave from Scranton wrote: > > Hi Folks, > > The first week of this month I recieved a package of Starlines and > a package of Midnites. The Starlines came on Thursday and the Midnites > came on friday. I put them both in with no problems. they are next to each > other about 3 feet a part. Each got 5 drawn out frames and 5 new frames. > Only difference was on the Starlines, I accidently pulled out the wrong > cork and the queen was able to get out faster, than having to wait until > the candy was eaten away. > > Now after being in almost 3 weeks, they both have eggs and pollen. > I have seen both queens and they look good. But the Starlines are > screaming away bringing in tons of pollen and have taken almost 4 quarts > of syrup. And the Midnites are not taking in as much pollen and have > taken less than 2 quarts of syrup. There seems to be more activity > goinging in and out of the Starlines than the Midnites. Is this ok? Is it > just the difference between the two strains or is there something wrong? > > ****************************************************************************** > Dave D. Cawley, Maitre d' | > The Internet Cafe | > Scranton, Pennsylvania | > (717) 344-1969 | > dave@scranton.com | > ****************************************************************************** > URL => http://www.scranton.com Greetings! Not to worry. Both the starline and midnites are slow to build-up. I have both of these race/strains . Remember,I live in Maine, where the honey flow is at a later time in the year than most areas. The starlines will build up faster than the midnites,but IMHO,this does not mean that one is better than the other. You have to go with the weather conditions in your area. I am glad you got both strains,this way you will compare which strain will best suit your area. Midnitebee(Herb) ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 07:46:28 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Paul Cronshaw, D.C." Subject: ABC & XYZ of Bee Culture Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I have a copy of this book - 35th Edition, copyright 1974. Is there a newer edition? Paul Cronshaw, D.C. Cyberchiro and Hobbyist Beekeeper Santa Barbara, CA USA ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 10:46:34 +0500 Reply-To: pdk@mindspring.com Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: John LeRoy Subject: Hams and Bees MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Note: the Dayton Hamvention is a giant convention/flea market for ham radio enthusiasts. Swarm greets flea marketers: The Dayton Hamvention flea market almost became a "bee market" late Sunday morning when a swarm of several thousand honeybees, apparently from a nearby hive, descended onto a vendor's table. Dave Lindquist, N1YMK, a former apiarist who lives in Newfane, Vermont, happened upon the scene just as another man -- obviously knowledgeable about bees and possibly a ham -- already had isolated the queen bee in a cardboard box and was scooping the swarm off the table's edge into the box. "There were lots of bees still in the air -- more than half -- but they had detected the smell of the queen in the box, so were happily joining her," he said. Lindquist said he'd been told the fire department already had been called to "blow the swarm out of the air" by freezing it with carbon dioxide, but that didn't appear necessary, and no one reported getting stung. Onlooking hams appeared unfazed, said Lindquist. "While swarming bees are normally docile due to the fact that they fill themselves up with honey reserves before they leave the hive, they still have the ability to sting if agitated." Lindquist's friend, Charlie Geib, N4AV, of Fort Lauderdale, Florida didn't take any chances. "Dave was a few feet from the scene, but I backed off about 40 feet away and still got hit by flying bees," he said. A nice note about bees, I thought. It was on the ham radio national organization's web site. Many of us enjoy both hobbies. John LeRoy (ham radio W4JKL) ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 10:45:25 -0400 Reply-To: Bob Billson Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Bob Billson Organization: organized? me?! Subject: Re: newbie questions: smoker fuel MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Hi all, I want to thank everyone who answered my questions on smoker fuel and when to add my second super. I added the second supers to my two colonies. The bees took it real fast. They almost have all the foundation drawn out. Looks like I'm on my way to a fun first season of beekeeping! Thanks to all who took the time to answer. Be looking for more newbie questions as they arise. :) Bob -- Bob Billson, KC2WZ email: kc2wz@intercall.net (\ MS-DOS, you can't live with it. You can live without it. /) {|||8- Linux: World domination. Fast. -8|||} (/ \} ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 11:37:18 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ted Wout Subject: Re: A Tip: Stale smoke, lost hive tool MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Michael Reddell wrote: >I generally try to have a smoker and hive tool in my car all during the >active beekeeping months, and for several years I had the unpleasant strong >odor of stale smoke lingering in the car. I also tended to misplace the= >hive tool. Then I stumbled onto a pretty nice solution to the problem. = I >found a surplus ammo box that was the exact size to fit my smoker in. = It's >5.5"x10"x11" and air tight. When I finish using the smoker I drop it an= d a >hive tool into the box and close it up. The smoker dies out quickly for= >lack of oxygen, and no smoke gets into my car. Then when I open the box= , >the unburned fuel is still ready to use and my hive tool hasn't been >misplaced. > >This simple box has become one of my favorite beekeeping gadgets. Adrian M. Wenner: >>I second that motion! For years I have used an ammo box for the same purpose. One must take care, however. The boxes I use require that one squeeze the bellows before latching down the cover. The rubber "o-ring" seal provides no chance for foul odors to get into the car. I also keep = a hive tool (as well as a small screw cap glass jar with strike anywhere matches) in the case.<< I guess I'm a third. We have used an ammo box of those dimensions to kee= p personal hygiene items dry when camping. Then I got the idea to use it f= or the smoker. Works great and you can get get one at the local Army-Navy surplus store for less than $15. I've only been doing it for about six months though. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 11:30:32 -0400 Reply-To: megabite@mindspring.com Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Brian B. Bonner" Subject: Re: Fluvalinate-contaminated honey MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Walter T. Weller wrote: > > On Sat, 24 May 1997 21:52:08 -0700 Vince Coppola > writes: > >Walter T. Weller wrote: > > > > > >>Is there any reliable information that fluvalinate has adverse > >effects on > >> humans, in the quantities likely to be absorbed by the honey? > >> > >> I strongly doubt it. If this were a real hazard, the FDA would > >never > >> have approved fluvalinate for uncontrolled use by beekeepers. Some > >of us > >> idiots would surely "misuse" the material, and the Feds wouldn't > >accept > >> this possibility if there were any real risk. > > > > Fluvalinate is hardly approved for uncontrolled use. It is > >only approved > >to be used according to the directions on the label just like other ag > >chemicals. > >Supposedly beekeepers can be trusted to use this material properly. > > Hi, Vince. Thanks for the note. > > Let's get real, shall we? Don't you think that if the FDA were as > trusting as you seem to suppose, we would surely have more acaricides > approved for our trusted "controlled" use than just fluvalinate alone? > > And this is not the same situation as the use of commercial agricultural > pesticides with proven harmful effects, nor of prescription drugs either. > In each of those cases, a trained and licensed applicator is "trusted" > with the deployment of the stuff in a proper manner, subject to loss of > license and other penalties for misuse. If fluvalinate were indeed > harmful to humans, we would assuredly have to call in licensed > applicators to put strips in our hives and to take them out again. Have > you tried to treat your termites yourself? Try to get the stuff to kill > them with -- the good stuff that the Orkin man uses. > > Do you have any solid information on the subject, one way or the other? > That's what I'm asking for. > > I don't, and can't find any. > > I'm being forced to the conclusion that fluvalinate is probably as > harmful to humans as it is to bees -- that is, not at all. If the FDA > thought otherwise fluvalinate would not have been released for us amateur > hobbyists to put into beehives. > HA! The FDA? hehe. ALL chemical pesticides are potentially harmful to humans. Remember DDT? My uncle used it like water. What is safe today will be unsafe 10 years from now. ALL the pesticides from the 50's are banned in the US today. They were deemed safe then. Just be careful. > > > Walter -- -==- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 11:09:48 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Tim Townsend Organization: TPLR Honey Farms Subject: Re: comb orientation MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-2022-jp Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Richard Drutchas wrote: > > Ive put out boxes and boxes of new perco plastic frames this spring and > as could be expected some of the hives started building comb 90 degrees > more or less to the comb I gave them. Lindauer found that bees orientate > the comb using the earth's magnetic field. He also found that if the > colony is moved it will make comb in the same direction it was going > at its original stand. Now my question is could I move the the > nonconformist hives around to make it easier to draw wax up my perco > frames Richard: I don't think moving the hive will help, the bees will draw brace comb when they are given too much Pierco (or any other) foundation at one time, if you have to put full boxes of foundation on, use ten frames instead of nine. Also as the bees draw it out you may want to move the drawn frames to the outside of the super and move the undrawn ones in to the center, or intersperse the drawn and undrawn comb with the undrawn closer to the center of the super. It's a bit of work but it's worth it. Some bees just like to build brace and burr comb, just try to have the foundation tighter together. Tim Townsend ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 13:10:50 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: PondSite Subject: Re: ABC & XYZ of Bee Culture MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit YES there sure is. I just got my new one, 40th edition, copyright 1990. Its better than ever. WALT pondsite@barnwells.c. ---------- > From: Paul Cronshaw, D.C. > To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU > Subject: ABC & XYZ of Bee Culture > Date: Monday, May 26, 1997 10:46 AM > > I have a copy of this book - 35th Edition, copyright 1974. > > Is there a newer edition? > > Paul Cronshaw, D.C. > Cyberchiro and Hobbyist Beekeeper > Santa Barbara, CA USA ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 13:26:15 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: PondSite Subject: bee honey MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ive got my four new hives going good. The first deep super was almost full of comb and I put on the second hive body. Its almost full of comb now. QUESTION I have some shallow frames full of honey from last year, that I have kept in the freezer. I want to give it to the bees to help them complete the drawing our of the hive body combs, and maybe draw out some shallow super combs. Do I just put the shallow super with a few frames of honey and some new foundation on the top. Should I put it over the inner cover. two of the hives are still taking in lots of sugar/syrup, made at 1cup sugar to one cup water. The other two are taking in very little, even though I keep the feeder full. I read that they use the sugar/syrup to stimulate brood rearing and making comb. I want them to make comb for next year, so do I keep the sugar/syrup going in, then move the shallow frames so the bees will clean them back out for me. HELP, The several threads that have been going on this subject have stopped short of where my bees are.WALT retired in s.c. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 10:42:48 -0700 Reply-To: snielsen@orednet.org Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Susan L. Nielsen" Subject: spec's on Fluvalinate [long] My personal feeling is that any pesticide is a poison, though we attempt to apply it in ways that affect only the target population. Nevertheless, here are the report results on Fluvalinate, for general consumption. Susan Nielsen snielsen@orednet.org ================= Begin forwarded message ================= E X T O X N E T EXTENSION TOXICOLOGY NETWORK A Pesticide Information Project of Cooperative Extension Offices at Cornell University, Michigan State University, Oregon State University, and University of California at Davis. Major support and funding was provided by the USDA/Extension Service/National Agricultural Pesticide Impact Assessment Program. Revised 9/93. EXTOXNET primary files maintained and archived at Oregon State University. FLUVALINATE TRADE OR OTHER NAMES Some trade names include Klartan, Mavrik, Mavrik Aqua Flow, Spur and Yardex. REGULATORY STATUS Pesticides containing fluvalinate must bear the signal word "Danger" on the product label (1). Fluvalinate is classified as a Restricted Use Pesticide (RUP) because of its high toxicity to fish and aquatic invertebrates (5). Restricted Use Pesticides may be purchased and used only by certified applicators. INTRODUCTION Fluvalinate is a synthetic pyrethroid which is used as a broad spectrum insecticide against moths, beetles and Hemipteran insect pests on cotton, cereal, grape, potato, fruit tree, vegetable and plantation crops, fleas, turf and ornamental insects. It has both stomach and contact activity in target insects and is available in emulsifiable concentrate and flowable formulations (1). TOXICOLOGICAL EFFECTS ACUTE TOXICITY Fluvalinate is a moderately toxic material (1, 5). Fluvalinate is moderately irritating to the eye and it is a mild skin irritant (5). Fluvalinate does not cause allergic skin reactions (5). Some formulated products, including Mavrik 2E, can cause skin irritation and are corrosive to the eyes (3). Workers exposed to fluvalinate have reported coughing, sneezing, throat irritation, itching or burning sensations on the arms or face with or without a rash, headache and nausea (5). The amount of a chemical that is lethal to one-half (50%) of experimental animals fed the material is referred to as its acute oral lethal dose fifty, or LD50. The oral LD50 for technical fluvalinate in rats is 261 to 282 mg/kg (1, 5). The oral LD50 for the product Mavrik 2E in rats is 1,050 to 1,110 mg/kg (3). The dermal LD50 for technical fluvalinate in rats and rabbits is > 20,000 mg/kg (1, 5). The dermal LD50 for Mavrik 2E in rabbits is > 2,100 mg/kg (3). CHRONIC TOXICITY A 90-day study with rats fed 3 mg/kg/day and a 6-month study with dogs fed 5 mg/kg/day both showed no adverse effects (5). Reproductive Effects A reproductive study with rats showed no effects on offspring at 1 mg/kg. Toxic effects in fetuses occurred at 12.5 and 25 mg/kg, the highest dose tested (5). Teratogenic Effects EPA reports that no birth defects were detected in the offspring of rats fed 50 mg/kg nor in the offspring of rabbits fed 125 mg/kg (5). Mutagenic Effects Fluvalinate is not mutagenic (5). Carcinogenic Effects No tumors were observed in mice given doses of up to 20 mg/kg/day, nor in rats given doses as high as 2.5 mg/kg/day (5). Organ Toxicity Pyrethroids may cause adverse effects on the central nervous system. Long-term feeding studies have caused increased liver and kidney weights and adverse changes to liver tissues in test animals (4). No neurological effects were observed in hens given doses of 20,000 mg/kg/day of fluvalinate for 21 days (5). Fate in Humans and Animals No information was found. ECOLOGICAL EFFECTS Effects on Birds Fluvalinate is slightly toxic to birds. The acute oral LD50 for fluvalinate in bobwhite quail is > 2,510 mg/kg. The dietary LC50 for fluvalinate in mallard ducks and bobwhite quail is > 5,620 ppm (5). Effects on Aquatic Organisms Fluvalinate is highly toxic to fish (1). The 96-hour LC50 for fluvalinate in bluegill sunfish is 0.09 ug/l, and in rainbow trout is 2.9 ug/l. Its 48-hour LC50 in Daphnia magna, a small freshwater crustacean, is 74 ug/l, and in mysid shrimp is 2.9 ug/l (5). Pyrethroid insecticides are extremely toxic to fish with 96- hour LC50 values generally below 10 ug/l. Corresponding LD50 values in mammals and birds are in the range of several hundred to several thousand mg/kg. Fish sensitivity to the pyrethroids may be explained by their relatively slow metabolism and elimination of these compounds. The half-lives for elimination of several pyrethroids by trout are all greater than 48 hours, while elimination half-lives for birds and mammals range from 6 to 12 hours (8). Generally, the lethality of pyrethroids to fish increases with increasing octanol/water partition coefficients (9). Effects on Other Animals (Nontarget species) Fluvalinate was not toxic to honeybees exposed to residues left on cotton leaves after application of ultralow volume (ULV) and emulsifiable concentrate (EC) formulations (6). ENVIRONMENTAL FATE Breakdown of Chemical in Soil and Groundwater Fluvalinate is nearly insoluble in water and it has a strong tendency to bind to soil particles. It is therefore unlikely to contaminate groundwater, however metabolites of fluvalinate may leach (2, 5). Applications of less than 0.1 pounds of active ingredient per acre will decrease the potential for groundwater contamination (5). Its soil half-life is 30 days (2). In sandy loam, sandy clay and clay soils, fluvalinate degrades under aerobic conditions with half-lives of 4 to 8 days. Under anaerobic conditions in sandy loam, its half-life is 15 days (5). Fluvalinate is stable to hydrolysis under normal environmental temperatures and pH (5). Photodegradation of fluvalinate does not occur on soil (5). Breakdown of Chemical in Surface Water In aqueous solution, fluvalinate is subject to photodegradation with a half-life of 0.6 to 1 days. Photodegradation yields anilino acid and 3-phenoxy benzoic acid (5). In pond waters and in laboratory degradation studies, pyrethroid concentrations decrease rapidly due to sorption to sediment, suspended particles and plants. Microbial and photodegradation also occur (7). Breakdown of Chemical in Vegetation No information was found. PHYSICAL PROPERTIES AND GUIDELINES Fluvalinate is a viscous, yellow oil (1). Workers should wear goggles, a face shield and gloves when opening or pouring containers of 2E formulations of fluvalinate (1). Exposure Guidelines: No occupational exposure limits have been established for fluvalinate by OSHA, NIOSH or ACGIH (4). ADI: 0.01 mg/kg/day based on a 2-year rat feeding study and a 100 fold safety margin (5). MPI: 0.6 mg/kg/day for a 60 kg person (5). Physical Properties: CAS #: 69409-94-5 Chemical Class/Use: Synthetic pyrethroid insecticide Density: 1.29 g/cm3 (5) H20 solubility: insoluble; 0.005 ug/ml (2); 2 ppb (5). Solubility in other solvents: very soluble in organic solvents and aromatic hydrocarbons; slightly soluble in hexane (5) Boiling point: > 450 degrees C (1) Vapor pressure: < 1 x 10-7 Torr at 25 degrees C (1) Koc: 1,000,000 gm/ml (2) BASIC MANUFACTURER Sandoz Agro, Inc. 1300 E. Touhy Ave. Des Plaines IL 60018 Telephone: 708-699-1616 Review by Basic Manufacturer: Comments solicited: April, 1993 Comments received: May, 1993 REFERENCES (1) Meister, R.T. (ed.). 1992. Farm Chemicals Handbook '92. Meister Publishing Company, Willoughby, OH. (2) U.S. Department of Agriculture, Soil Conservation Service. 1990 (Nov.). SCS/ARS/CES Pesticide Properties Database: Version 2.0 (Summary). USDA - Soil Conservation Service, Syracuse, NY. (3) Maddy, K.T. et al. 1984 (Feb. 14). A study of fluvalinate dislodgeable degradation rates on orange foliage in Tulare County in California during May 1983. California Department of Food and Agriculture, Sacramento, CA. (4) Occupational Health Services, Inc. 1993 (Nov. 17). MSDS for Resmethrin. OHS Inc., Secaucus, NJ. (5) U.S. Environmental Protection Agency. March 31, 1986. Pesticide Fact Sheet Number 86: Fluvalinate. US EPA, Office of Pesticide Programs, Registration Div., Washington, DC. (6) Waller, G.D., et al. 1988. Pyrethroid residues and toxicity to honeybees of selected pyrethroid formulations applied to cotton in Arizona. J. of Economic Entomology 81 (4): 1022-6. (7) Muir, D.C.G., et al. 1985. Bioconcentration of cypermethrin, deltamethrin, fenvalerate and permethrin by Chironomus tentans larvae in sediment and water. Environmental Toxicology and Chemistry 4: 51-61. (8) Bradbury, S.P. and J.R. Coats. 1989. Toxicokinetics and toxicodynamics of pyrethroid insecticides in fish. Environmental Toxicology and Chemistry 8: 373-380. (9) Haya, K. 1989. Toxicity of pyrethroid insecticides to fish. Environmental Toxicology and Chemistry 8: 381-391. This PIP is part of the EXTOXNET Pesticide Information Notebook. For more information, contact the Pesticide Management Education Program, Cornell University, 5123 Comstock Hall, Ithaca, N.Y. 14853-0901. DISCLAIMER: The information in this profile does not in any way replace or supersede the information on the pesticide product label/ing or other regulatory requirements. Please refer to the pesticide product label/ing. -- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 13:05:44 -0600 Reply-To: allend@internode.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Allen Dick Organization: The Beekeepers Subject: Advertise Bees and Equipment Free MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT *** Please save this message for future reference *** Four bee discussion areas are now available at: http://www.internode.net/HoneyBee/Bee One of them provides for *free* posting of 'classified' style bee ads -- both commercial and private. A local search engine is on-site to allow for finding particular items when the database gets huge. Others areas at this site provide space for discussing Bee Science, Commercial Beekeeping, and Hobby Beekeeping. Again, all areas are fully searchable, and provided as a free public service. This web location also gives access to web pages for easy access to BEE-L and Best of Bee subscription options. Allen http://www.internode.net/HoneyBee/spring.htm ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 15:29:50 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: John A Skinner Subject: Re: How often to examine brood chamber frames?? In-Reply-To: <01BC6835.3AE569C0@s17.cs02.Io.apeleon.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Sat, 24 May 1997, Charles Hatton wrote: > Is it O.K. to weekly, biweekly, or monthly to remove each frame from the brood chambers to examine them? Charlie and Charles, Greetings from the Volunteer state, my 2 cents worth- My suggestion would be to inspect frequently only when you really need to. Frequent inspections each day or week will help you learn as you start out, but each time you inspect, you also disrupt the normal "comings and goings" of the hive. It will take the colony a time to recover from your visit. Some times of year frquent inspections may be needed, for example in Spring with an established colony to prevent swarming, remove queen cells each seven to ten days. We must consider what the purpose of the inspection is. In my opinion a full inspection involves removing all frames, finding the queen and quantifying status of eggs, uncappped brood, capped brood, nectar, honey, pollen... This kind of inspection is disruptive and is best done when the colony is actively foraging/ not clustered, not during a nectar derth (robbing..) and with care to replace frames in order and the same orientation as when you started. Ah yes, I need more best days, nevermind. Colonies can be inspected in marginal conditions without breaking the cluster when it's below 55F to see if the colony is alive, declining or increasing, etc. I like to quickly check a queen cage to see if she has been released each day after installation, but it is necessary only to move a frame or two or recover it from the hive bottom without moving frames. Is it O.K. to rearrange the order of the frames on a regular basis in the brood chambers?> I suggest not rearranging frames on a regular basis for no good reason. Imagine if someone came into you house and turned furniture upside down and backwards ?? You would take a while to find everything. I rearrange sometimes to get foundation drawn in the edge of the brood nest or to provide space in a colony that is getting too big for it's britches and may swarm soon. When a colony nears large size I do not run out and divide it. With a little care you can keep it large and make a good crop of honey. This "early dividing" seems like a disease with some beekeepers who are more proud of the numbers of colonies than their quality. It depends on purpose. If your purpose is to divide than it's ok, but an alternative would be to add a frame or two of foundation. THis gives them space and something to do instead of swarm. Live long and pollinate, John John A. Skinner 218 Ellington Hall Extension Apiculturist University of Tennessee jskinner@utk.edu Knoxville, TN 37901 (423)974-7138 > Charley & Charles > Charles@apeleon.net > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 15:58:40 -0500 Reply-To: beeworks@muskoka.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: David Eyre Organization: The Bee Works Subject: Re: How often to examine brood chamber frames?? In-Reply-To: <01BC6835.3AE569C0@s17.cs02.Io.apeleon.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT On 24 May 97 at 11:25, Charles Hatton wrote: > Is it O.K. to weekly, biweekly, or monthly to remove each frame from the brood chambers to examine them? Is it O.K. to rearrange the order of the frames on a regular basis in the brood chambers? We do! We try hard to examine each hive every 10 days max. I don't want precious queens going over the fence to a neighbour, or worse being knocked on the head. Within that time frame (10 day intervals) you can see trouble brewing and do something about it. Just for example; this weekend we were doing spring inspections. This consists of a complete strip down, each frame examined, clean bottom boards, etc. In two hives I found empty frames outside of sealed honey, yet the queens were running out of laying space. So without thinking those outer empty frames were placed inboard of the sealed honey. One, in the middle of the cluster and one just inboard of the sealed frame. Good chance if that had not been done it could have set off swarming tendencies. ******************************************* The Bee Works, 9 Progress Dr, Unit 2, Orillia, Ontario, L3V 6H1 Phone/fax 705-326-7171 David Eyre, Owner. http://www.muskoka.net/~beeworks ******************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 13:31:54 -0300 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Doug Yanega Subject: New Bee List (for Brazil) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =46or those few people who might be interested, a new list for Brazilian bee researchers and beekeepers has recently been created. Not surprisingly, the list is entirely in Portuguese, which I'm sure will limit outside subscription, but one never knows what languages a bee person might speak, so... Here is the original announcement as it appeared: Convidamos voce a participar da lista de discussao sobre abelhas brasileiras (beebr@bdt.org.br). Ela tem por finalidade propiciar oportunidade de discuss=E3o =E0queles interessados em assuntos relacionados =E0s abelhas, especialmente =E0 sua biologia, conserva=E7=E3o, al=E9m de apicultura, meliponicultura e poliniza=E7=E3o. Destina-se a pesquisadores, estudantes, apicultores, meliponicultores, enfim, a todos que tenham algum interesse em rela=E7=E3o =E0s abelhas. =C9 a primeira lista de discuss=E3o brasileira a tratar desse assunto, sendo uma iniciativa do Api=E1rio Central da Universidade =46ederal de Vi=E7osa (Vi=E7osa - Minas Gerais) com o apoio da Base de Dados Tropical - BDT (Campinas - SP). Por contar com a participa=E7=E3o de um grande n=FAmero de pessoas, com os m= ais variados interesses e n=EDveis culturais, e sendo seu objetivo principal gerar trocas de experi=EAncias entre brasileiros que lidam de alguma forma com abelhas, a l=EDngua da lista =E9 o portugu=EAs. Nela s=E3o trocadas informa=E7=F5es, experi=EAncias, curiosidades, divulgado= s trabalhos, eventos, projetos, e v=E1rios outros =EDtens. Vale a pena lembrar que n=E3o apenas aspectos pr=E1ticos e econ=F4micos rela= tivos =E0s abelhas ser=E3o discutidos, visto a grande diversidade e pouco conhecimento que se tem sobre nossas abelhas. ###################################################### # Api=E1rio Central da Universidade Federal de Vi=E7osa # # http://www.ufv.br/dbg/bee/ # # e-mail: apiario@mail.ufv.br # # webmaster: rcarlos@alunos.ufv.br # # coordenador: lcampos@mail.ufv.br # ###################################################### Para se inscrever na lista, envie mensagem para: listserv@bdt.org.br com uma linha de texto contendo: SUBSCRIBE beebr Nome Completo Doug Yanega Depto. de Biologia Geral, Instituto de Ciencias Biologicas, Univ. Fed. de Minas Gerais, Cx.P. 486, 30.161-970 Belo Horizonte, MG BRAZI= L phone: 031-448-1223, fax: 031-44-5481 (from U.S., prefix 011-55) http://www.icb.ufmg.br/~dyanega/ "There are some enterprises in which a careful disorderliness is the true method" - Herman Melville, Moby Dick, Chap. 82 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 15:16:47 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: John Volpe Subject: Bees, Varroa and winter Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" This was forwarded to me by a friend on the entomo listserv. Thought it may be of interest. Cheers, John STORY LEAD: Helping Honeybees Withstand Mites and Winter ----------- ARS News Service Agricultural Research Service, USDA Dennis Senft, (510) 559-6068, dsenft@asrr.arsusda.gov May 23, 1997 ----------- A combination of cold weather and infectious mites have decimated domestic and wild honeybees in recent years. Some commercial beekeepers have lost half their hives and some wild populations were hit even harder. That's not good because the insects pollinate U.S. crops worth $10 billion annually. Scientists with the Agricultural Research Service say getting honeybees to build smaller cells--the six-sided cubbyholes where bees rear their young and store honey--may help bees survive mite attack. Into hives, the scientists placed "starter" cells smaller than those commercially used. The bees apparently used the small cells as a blueprint, building smaller than normal architectural units on top of them. Scientists suspect building the smaller cells puts less stress on bees, so they can better cope with mite infestations. In test hives infested with Varroa mites, bees in the small cells had a 40 percent survival rate compared to zero for those in standard size cells. A report on the ARS studies appears in the May 1997 issue of ARS' Agricultural Research magazine. The report can also be found on the World Wide Web at: http://www.ars.usda.gov/is/pr/beecells0597.htm Another way scientists could help is by locating hives of wild and domestic bees that might have natural resistance to Varroa mites. They already have found bees that have some resistance to tracheal mites. These two mites are major pests of bees. Mite-resistant honeybees might form the genetic basis for improved strains. ---------- Scientific contact: Eric H. Erickson, ARS Carl Hayden Bee Research Laboratory, Tucson, Ariz., http://gears.tucson.ars.ag.gov, phone (520) 670-6481, fax 670-6493, e-mail ehejr@ccit.arizona.edu. ------------- Photo in AR magazine: #k7585-1, regular and 22% smaller bee cells. View on WWW at http://www.ars.usda.gov/is/pr/beecells0597.htm. Contact ARS Photo Unit by phone at (301) 344-2958 or e-mail to arsphoto@asrr.arsusda.gov. ------------- This item is one of the news and feature releases and story leads that ARS Information distributes on weekdays to journalists on request by fax as well as by an Internet mailing list. * Feedback and questions to ARS News Service via e-mail: isjd@ars-grin.gov * ARS Info on the World Wide Web: http://www.ars.usda.gov/is * The ARS Information Staff is at 6303 Ivy Lane, 4th Floor, Greenbelt MD 20770, phone (301) 344-2303, fax 344-2311. > --------------------------------------------------------- John Volpe Dept. of Biology - Centre for Environmental Health University of Victoria PO Box 1700, Victoria, British Columbia, CANADA V8W 2Y2 TEL. (250) 721 7098 FAX. (250) 472 4075 jvolpe@uvic.ca http://web.uvic.ca/~jvolpe/ Life may have no meaning. Or even worse, it may have a meaning of which I disapprove. -- Ashleigh Brilliant ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 18:47:58 -0700 Reply-To: mister-t@clinic.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Bill Truesdell Subject: Re: Bees, Varroa and winter MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Interesting, because I tried smaller cells this past winter and got 100% survival. But a friend who also tried the smaller cells did about normal. We did it because of the guess that the brood cycle would be shorter and hence less varroa. Seems we were right, but I did so many other things, like taking honey off early, putting all new frames with the smaller cells and putting patties in high and low for winter that there is no science in the cells being the cause for the success. Just take your pick. Bill Truesdell Bath, ME ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 21:12:45 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Curtis L. Spacek" Subject: Re: comb orientation MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit When I finally decided to get serious about my bee hobby last year i read every book on beekeping that I could get my hands on.In several of these was reference to your problem.IN a book dated 1914,BEEKEEPING by E.F. Phillips(one of the rural science series booksfrom L.H.Baily)there was a passage that stated bees will build comb in the same compass direction that the hive was originally oriented.If the hive is rotated 90deg. the bees will build cross comb in the same compass direction as they did before the hive was rotated.Apparently the bees use the earth's magnetic feild in navigation when the sun is hidden by clouds.An interesting side note stated that if a magnet is placed inside the hive the bees will build comb in tubular cylinders.I have yet to try this one but it sounds like fun.So to get your hive straightened out you will have to point the hive in the original compass direction which the hive was in when it was first started.good luck....curtis,pasadena,Texas p.s. can anyone tell me how to contact the harris county beekeepers assn? ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 21:18:32 -0600 Reply-To: allend@internode.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Allen Dick Organization: The Beekeepers Subject: Bees, Varroa and winter In-Reply-To: <23194734105893@systronix.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT > Newsflash: > Scientists with the Agricultural Research Service say getting honeybees > to build smaller cells ... Glad I didn't melt all those old brood combs with cocoons that reduce the cell size. If you're far enough behind, you are just in time to lead a new parade! Now if we just can prove that a few nosema spores are good for bees... Allen ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 08:17:01 GMT+0200 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Garth Organization: Rhodes University South Africa Subject: Re: Wool Michael Reddell wrote a number of things about wool. This intrigued me and I will ad my observations: > My personal and totally untested theory is that processed wool >human scent mimics the scent of some historical predator of bees, >such as bears (or maybe even humans who, after all, have worn wool >and robbed bees, probably at the same time, for thousands of years.) The bees here in South Africa also attack wool. Wool is not a common ingredient here, although ancient hunter gatherers are known to have kept fat tailed sheep they never did anything with the wool. Bears are also no wool like, and don't occur here, yet bees still attack wool socks. (I have had this happen on a number of occasions when I walked by a beehive and the guards buzzed my whole body and stung my socks. Socks are made from wool because it is an absorbtive material. When a bee stings it would seem it would need a trigger to tell it what to attack. Bees have compound vision so one can assume that what they see is big and blurry and when they are close to it, it will appear motionless. Hence a big smooth surface will not trigger the sting response? So if they find a fluffy sock they may attack as it would 'feel' like a place where the furr on the target animal is thin. They sting and marker pheremones are released into the wool, which is absorbtive. Hence a marker is made from a sock and the more stings, the more stings will come. My theory. I have noticed this with some gloves I have which have a spot on one finger which is a bit fluffy as the leather is worn and it always gets stung into a pincussion type thing. If the surface is absorbtive and bees happen to sting it once, the chances are, due to markers, it will be stung again. Keep well Garth --- Garth Cambray "Opinions expressed in this post may be those 15 Park Road of Pritz, my cat, who knows a lot about Grahamstown catfood." 6140 *garth@rucus.ru.ac.za* South Africa Phone 27-0461-311663 In general, generalisations are bad. But don't worry BEEEEEE happy. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 23:29:36 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Paul Cronshaw, D.C." Subject: Life of Queen in Cage Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" How long can a queen be kept alive in a queen cage with 3 attendants if fed a little honey every day? Is it better to bank a bunch of queens in a small nuc for longer periods of time than if they were stored in a cool room in a cage? Paul Cronshaw, D.C. Cyberchiro and Hobbyist Beekeeper Santa Barbara, CA USA ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 00:05:34 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Paul Cronshaw, D.C." Subject: US Beekeeping Industry Article Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Found an interesting article on US Beekeeping Industry. http://gears.tucson.ars.ag.gov/dept/abf.html Paul Cronshaw, D.C. Cyberchiro and Hobbyist Beekeeper Santa Barbara, CA USA ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 00:36:53 -0700 Reply-To: mwr@hotcity.com Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Michael Reddell Subject: Re: How often to examine brood chamber frames?? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit All this discussion of how often to inspect a colony is a bit too cut and dried for me. The important thing is to pay attention to what's going on and inspect based on what your 5 senses and common sense tell you. Sometimes that means looking twice or more in the same week. More often it means leaving them alone for as long as your self-discipline holds up. First learn everything you can at the landing board. Are they bringing in pollen? (usually a sign of brood rearing.) Are they clustering out on the front? After dark? (It's either really hot weather or they're getting crowded or both) How much activity is there in relation to other colonies? What kind of activity is it? (Strong foraging could mean all is well and/or they need space, loitering or the 'washboard motion' could mean a swarm is imminent...) Next consider the season, the nectar flow, and the local circumstances. Use your head rather than a strict calendar to decide what to do. The hives that attract your attention during examination of the entrance activity are likely candidates for an inspection regardless of how often you prefer to inspect. Also, you can keep the intrusion of your inspections to a minimum. You don't have to search the corners of the hive to find the queen every time you open it up. You don't have to remove supers the minute they are full. (Bees are good capitalists - they work harder with a little honey in the bank.) Usually all you have to do is make sure there is room for storage in the supers and verify that you have a good queen. Pull a few frames in the supers to check on available space. Pull one frame from the edge of a brood box to allow room to work and hopefully prevent rolling the queen. Then take one frame from the middle of the brood box and look for eggs and a solid brood pattern. If you find eggs you have a queen and you're done. If not, look at another frame. As soon as you find eggs, close up and leave them alone. If you're really worried about swarming, it's the season, and you've seen evidence at the landing board, you can look at a few more frames to check for queen cells. The point is to use common sense and a little will power. If you have to have your nose in a hive every few days to satisfy your inquisitive nature, get more hives and rotate through the apiary. (Ok, I know getting more colonies isn't always practical or even possible.) I go to one of my bee yards every few days just to watch and be aware of conditions and developments. I open a hive whenever I think it shows evidence that it needs attention, and at least once every two weeks I do a few random spot checks anyway, as described above. For the average hobbyist, once a year is probably not realistic, but most of us do meddle with our hives more than they need us to. Michael Reddell mwr@hotcity.com http://www.hotcity.com/~mwr ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 06:47:37 +0000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Richard Drutchas Organization: Bee Haven Honey Subject: comb oriantation MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Tim: Sorry you misunderstood my question I was'nt very clear. I put out one hundred or so boxes for cut comb every year and have watched alot of comb being drawn. This situation was a bit different in that all these hives (110) had been moved from there original stands to a holding yard for pollination and they all got a deep box of plastic with two drawn frames on the sides and feed. About ten of these hives decided to go thier own way and ignored the frames as if they were not there so I tore the misdirected comb out and put in partially drawn comb from the hives that used the plastic. This of course is typical but I was just curious if anyone out there had ever played around with comb oriantation either by wrapping an electrified wire around the hive changing the magnetic poles or just moving the hive around to see if indeed the bees do remember thier original comb direction. Ill try to notice this year what percent of the cut comb hives have to be redirected it seemed that by the hives being moved there was more cross comb building then usual. Just thinking out load. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 08:36:42 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Dale Q. Marmaduke" Subject: frames being hived together??? Do I scrape off, ignore, ??? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII First year beekeeper. I have two hive bodies....first year...new foundation. In most of the hive the bees are making the comb nicely. In a few frames, they have spanned the frames and are making more of a ball of comb. How do I correct this? Do I cut the areas out and hope they rebuild "correctly"? Do I ignore this or remove the comb and replace with fresh foundation? If I cut out the mess...do I place it back in the hive? Question 2 I have put the standard grease patty in the hive back in March. It still has had no reduction in size. The bees ignore it. How long should a grease patty last? Any suggestions on getting some action and treatment? Dale Marmaduke Indianapolis, Indiana dmarmad@iupui.edu ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 23:09:04 +0900 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: j h & e mcadam Subject: Re: Taming a mean hive Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" In my advice in turning the mean hive to the back I should have said turn the hive at right angles which Jim (the mathematics expert) informs me is 90 degrees not 45 degrees. Sorry. Betty McAdam HOG BAY APIARY Penneshaw, Kangaroo Island j.h. & e. mcadam Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Andy Nachbaur Organization: WILD BEE'S BBS (209) 826-8107 LOS BANOS, CA Subject: Re: Carolina News and Question on Wet Honey JKM>From: Jonathan KP Marshall >Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 09:47:57 +1200 >Subject: Re: Carolina News and Question on Wet Honey >Organization: Taranaki Honey Supplies >> In NZ they've demonstrated pretty conclusively that it is bird >> pollination for the most part, which came as a surprise to me... JKM>Nick I thought that the position is that we should encourage interprises >in the bee industry. Most know that bees don't pollinate feijoas, but >the oor orchardist that lies awake at night worrying about his/her crop >doesn't want to know that. Instead they would rather part with some >money to make them feel good, or at least doing as much as they can. What a "feijoas"? JKM>We should help these poor beekeepers that suffer from all the dieseases >known to man to make some more money. Yep, I got cancer on the end of my noise and I would like to have the money to treat it as the bee sting treatment has not helped that much. That pollination coin has two sides, one side says "if the honeybee's work it charge the farmer for pollinating it", the other says "if the honeybee's work it charge the beekeeper for the pasture". Here we charge the farmer for pollination and pay the rancher and government for bee pasture. I suspect that at least in California the value of the honeybee's to production agriculture has become bloated over the years, but most farmers follow each other and do not want to take the chance of not having honeybee's around just in case their neighbors are right about their value. The same mentality used in buying pesticides, backed up by the farm advisors, farm news magazines, and much advertising by the chemical industry. In tree crops such as almonds it is easy to find growers who never rent bees and say they are not necessary, but never have I seen an orchard that did not have bees working during the bloom. It has never been explained how almonds are pollinated in the old world which has greater acreage then California and few bees. The crops are smaller, but not so much in the irrigated areas. ttul Andy- --- ~ QMPro 1.53 ~ Windows Ice Cream: Hoggin DOS ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 09:40:54 CST6CDT Reply-To: Blane.White@state.mn.us Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: BLANE WHITE Organization: Minnesota Dept of Agriculture Subject: Re: Fluvalinate-contaminated honey In-Reply-To: <19970525.191410.9118.2.feliciana@juno.com> Walter Weller wrote: > Let's get real, shall we? Don't you think that if the FDA were as > trusting as you seem to suppose, we would surely have more acaricides > approved for our trusted "controlled" use than just fluvalinate alone? > > And this is not the same situation as the use of commercial agricultural > pesticides with proven harmful effects, nor of prescription drugs either. > In each of those cases, a trained and licensed applicator is "trusted" > with the deployment of the stuff in a proper manner, subject to loss of > license and other penalties for misuse. If fluvalinate were indeed > harmful to humans, we would assuredly have to call in licensed > applicators to put strips in our hives and to take them out again. Have > you tried to treat your termites yourself? Try to get the stuff to kill > them with -- the good stuff that the Orkin man uses. > Hi Walter, One problem with you logic is that FDA does not regulate pesticides. That is the domain of the EPA. The other point is that a company ( pesticide dealer) must register a product with EPA and state pesticide regulatory agencies ( usually state Dept. of Agriculture) before they can sell the material. This registration process is expensive and few companies are or have been willing to do this for the small market that beekeeping represents. This is one of the problems in the system in my view - in the US registration of a product for pest control almost always requires a company to make a large outlay to register their product so a small market is easily overlooked because there is no real prospect to recover the investment. This results in some products not being registered not because of problems with residue or usefullness but because they cannot be sold to make a profit. IMHO blane ****************************************** Blane White State Apiary Inspector Minnesota Department of Agriculture 90 W Plato Blvd St Paul, MN 55107 http://www.mda.state.mn.us phone 612-296-0591 fax 612-296-7386 bwhite@mda-is.mda.state.mn.us ******************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 11:18:14 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Midnite Bee Subject: General interest MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Greetings! I received this e-mail message and thought it might be of interest to all. Midnitebee(Herb) www.cybertours.com/~midnitebee ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------- rob verkooijen Mon May 26 08:19:09 1997 Location: Breda The Netherlands E-mail: school Comments:I'm a smal Beekeeper, and the bees are flying in the south of the Netherlands. The main agricultural products are pigs (around 15 000 000) peaces and cows. There aren't many flowers to visit. The polution is terrible. Farmers who don't read de directions on a barrel with polution already killed two times all my bees. I went from 17 hives to 3 and from 5 to 0 At this moment I've got 5 hives again. I hope that nature is better in your part of the world. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 17:43:18 +0100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "THONE HUGO VE144 (240)9452" Subject: Re: Life of Queen in Cage In-Reply-To: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT I've just released a queen after keeping her locked up with 5 worker bees for 21 days (the worker bees died after two weeks and had to be replaced). I don't know yet whether she is accepted or not. hugo +++++ Hugo Thone (SE144) (\ {|||8- ALCATEL TELECOM (/ F.Wellesplein 1 B-2018 Antwerp do bee do bee do .... email : thoneh@btmaa.bel.alcatel.be phone : (32) 3 240 94 52 fax : (32) 3 240 99 50 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 10:56:18 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Paul Basehore Subject: Re: Observation hive Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 07:10 PM 5/18/97 +1200, you wrote: When I was there there >were several active queens and also some virgins visable. The queens can >(and do) move all over the frames, even encountering each other on >occasions, according to the owner. My question is why don't these queens fight when they encounter each other? ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 13:43:22 -0500 Reply-To: beeworks@muskoka.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: David Eyre Organization: The Bee Works Subject: Re: Bees, Varroa and winter In-Reply-To: <338A3D4E.410C@clinic.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT On 26 May 97 at 18:47, Bill Truesdell wrote: > Interesting, because I tried smaller cells this past winter and got 100% > survival. But a friend who also tried the smaller cells did about > normal. We did it because of the guess that the brood cycle would be > shorter and hence less varroa. Seems we were right, but I did so many Would some one please comment on this!! It really doesn't make sense! How can a smaller cell change the genetics of the bees? Earlier capping or shorter gestation is surely a matter of genetics, not cell size? That like suggesting a 4ft female will have a shorter gestation than say a 6 footer!!! ******************************************* The Bee Works, 9 Progress Dr, Unit 2, Orillia, Ontario, L3V 6H1 Phone/fax 705-326-7171 David Eyre, Owner. http://www.muskoka.net/~beeworks ******************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 16:27:10 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Stephen Jones Subject: Pierco Plastic Frames MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I just bought the "new" plastic foundation for wooden frames from Pierco, basically just to try them out. Has anyone tried these yet and can you tell me the best way to attach them to the wooden frame. There are three holes at the top of the foundation & three more across the bottom. I nailed the plastic foundation to the frame at the top. The bottom holes do not match up with any wood. This seems to be all there is but I am not sure. I tried a pin on the side but it didn't work. Steve Jones ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 16:36:13 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Paul Basehore Subject: Re: Maine's spring management Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 04:38 AM 5/21/97 -0400, you wrote: >http://www.cybertours.com/~midnitebee/ >Greetings! > I have not included the Spring edition to my web site.The criteria is the >same as all years previous. Go to the Beelinks page and follow the link to >"A Year in the Apiary". > I have two additional bee hives containing the "carniolan" and "new world >carniolan" I will report on their behavior as time will allow. > Midnitebee(Herb) >BTW-The midnites and starlines are building-up rapidly!! So much for these >race/strains not doing well in COLD climates. Three years in a row,these >bees have produced plenty of honey! > As a test I bought 3 different races of bees just to observe there differences and the Italians built up the fastest. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 16:30:40 -0700 Reply-To: mwr@hotcity.com Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Michael Reddell Subject: Re: Wool MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Garth wrote: > > Michael Reddell wrote a number of things about wool. > > This intrigued me and I will ad my observations: > > > My personal and totally untested theory is that processed wool > >human scent mimics the scent of some historical predator of bees, > >such as bears (or maybe even humans who, after all, have worn wool > >and robbed bees, probably at the same time, for thousands of years.) > > The bees here in South Africa also attack wool. Wool is not a common > ingredient here, although ancient hunter gatherers are known to have > kept fat tailed sheep they never did anything with the wool. Bears > are also no wool like, and don't occur here, yet bees still attack > wool socks. (I have had this happen on a number of occasions when I > walked by a beehive and the guards buzzed my whole body and stung my > socks. > > Socks are made from wool because it is an absorbtive material. When a > bee stings it would seem it would need a trigger to tell it what to > attack. Bees have compound vision so one can assume that what they > see is big and blurry and when they are close to it, it will appear > motionless. Hence a big smooth surface will not trigger the sting > response? So if they find a fluffy sock they may attack as it would > 'feel' like a place where the furr on the target animal is thin. They > sting and marker pheremones are released into the wool, which is > absorbtive. Hence a marker is made from a sock and the more stings, > the more stings will come. > > My theory. I have noticed this with some gloves I have which have a > spot on one finger which is a bit fluffy as the leather is worn and > it always gets stung into a pincussion type thing. If the surface is > absorbtive and bees happen to sting it once, the chances are, due to > markers, it will be stung again. Ok, this puts my untested theory in jeopardy, but there is definitely something about the combination of wool and humans that is not good in the bee yard. I can wear fuzzy cotton or poyester socks when the bees are upset and get no reaction around the socks but wool socks are bad news even on an otherwise calm day. It really is something specific to wool. Michael Reddell mwr@hotcity.com http://www.hotcity.com/~mwr ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 19:45:26 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Paul Basehore Subject: Re: $300 for one hive? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 06:19 PM 5/21/97 -0400, you wrote: >>>To that 11 year old young man, you said that he should use a queen >>>excluder. I was told by the store where I spent $600 for my two >>>unassembled hives, that a queen excluder will stop the other bees >>from >>>doing much up there. The lady at the shop said it really is a bee >>>excluder. > >I hope there's a typo here. I think $300 for one unassembled hive is a bit >much. If you're paying more than $75 for an unassembled hive, send me a >direct mail and I'll give you the 800 numbers for suppliers who will not >rip you off. > >Wouldn't it be great if we could somehow form a relationship with a bee >house to give members of the list a special discount? Like since there are >over 500 members on the list, wouldn't it be great to get that many >customers if you were in that business? Wouldn't it be great to be a >member of the list and enjoy some savings. I'm sure that we represent a >sizable purchase of bee equipment each year. Wouldn't it be great to flex >our economic muscles and take advantage of that? > >I'm not sure that I haven't violated some facet of netiquete(sp?) here. I >certainly don't want to offend anyone. I know that the subject of money on >the net causes some people to get real defensive. I just see this as a >win/win situation if we could pull it off. Also, I don't have any interest >in any bee supply businesses. I just like saving a buck like most folks > >Ted Wout >Red Oak, TX. > WELL LETS DO IT!!! ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 16:46:34 -0700 Reply-To: kkimes@cruzio.com Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Keith Kimes Subject: Re: Life of Queen in Cage MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Paul Cronshaw, D.C. wrote: > > How long can a queen be kept alive in a queen cage with 3 attendants if fed > a little honey every day? > > Is it better to bank a bunch of queens in a small nuc for longer periods of > time than if they were stored in a cool room in a cage? > > Paul Cronshaw, D.C. > Cyberchiro and Hobbyist Beekeeper > Santa Barbara, CA USA > .- I have only one hive now but in the past had about ten. I once ordered seven queens and received them on a Thursday and could not use them until Saturday. I knew they would be OK in the cages for the two days so put them up in the kitchen cabinet ( a convenient cool dark place ). The cage candy attracted ants and the ants killed or damaged the queens so badly that they could not be used. I recommend that you store all queens in a hive or nook so that the can be both cared for and protected. Keith Kimes kkimes@cruzio.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 17:15:33 -0700 Reply-To: kkimes@cruzio.com Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Keith Kimes Subject: Re: Bees, Varroa and winter MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit David Eyre wrote: > > On 26 May 97 at 18:47, Bill Truesdell wrote: > > > Interesting, because I tried smaller cells this past winter and got 100% > > survival. But a friend who also tried the smaller cells did about > > normal. We did it because of the guess that the brood cycle would be > > shorter and hence less varroa. Seems we were right, but I did so many > > Would some one please comment on this!! It really doesn't make > sense! How can a smaller cell change the genetics of the bees? > Earlier capping or shorter gestation is surely a matter of genetics, > not cell size? That like suggesting a 4ft female will have a > shorter gestation than say a 6 footer!!! I recently read somewhere, can't remember where, that there is an all plastic comb that some people are trying. It is tapered, Larger then normal at the bottom and normal size at the opening. It has thick walls at the opening because of its taper. The thinking is that a queens will lay worker eggs because of the normal worker opening but the larger base will cause overfeeding by the brood bees. I think that the brood cycle is shortened by about a half day but evidence was not given as to the overall effect on the hive and the workers produced. I think that it does slows down the varroa population growth curve but again no evidence was provided to prove this. I wonder if this is the comb that Bill is referring to? Keith Kimes kkimes@cruzio.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 21:56:44 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "W. G. Miller" Subject: Re: MOLDY SUPERS Moldy supers are no problem for the bees to clean up (even museum-grade mold). Just put them on like you would any other drawn-comb super. W. G. Miller Gaithersburg, MD ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 21:58:10 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "W. G. Miller" Subject: Re: Single vs Double Brood Chambers In Maryland, by far most people use 2 deep brood chambers, with 3 medium brood chambers also common. I don't know of any Marylanders who use single deeps for anything but new colonies (and comb honey production). In our club's short course, we advocate using 2 deeps or 3 mediums as the brood chambers. Personally, I use 3 mediums as the brood chambers. W. G. Miller Gaithersburg, MD ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 21:53:07 -0700 Reply-To: mister-t@clinic.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Bill Truesdell Subject: Re: Bees, Varroa and winter and now comb cell density Comments: To: kkimes@cruzio.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The brood comb I used I bought from a friend who, I think, got it from Dadant. It has more cells per inch than the "normal" foundation. There is supposedly some even more dense foundation available. I do not profess to know much about accelerating the brood cycle of bees by changing cell size, but we guessed, and guess is the operative word here, that smaller bees might take less time to develop. If it was even a day less, then,as shown in at a recent article, I think it was ABJ, the faster it gets out, the less varroa. AHB has this trait and it is given as one among many reasons for their supposed tolerance of varroa. I do not know if the brood cycle is inviolate in bees. I doubt it. Cod and other ground fish have been adapting and maturing earlier because of the pressure of overfishing. Plus, we bred the bees to be larger. What was the brood cycle when the cells were smaller and the bees were the same? That might answer the question. But, then again, it might have been the mint flavored comb I used. Just kidding. Be kind. Bill Truesdell Bath, ME ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 27 Jun 1997 23:35:43 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Debbie Subject: Just to say Hi! Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I want to say Hello to all the Beekeepers out there! Isn't it great to be able to communicate like this via the net. I find everything about this place quite exciting. I started beekeeping last May/96, I caught a wild swarm and since then have increased to seven hives using only the old swarm's queen. I am having twenty nuke boxes made and I'm just about ready to put my new queen cells in. Last winter I put my hives in the basement of our house, I really think this might have given the bees an advantage this spring. It was about 45 degrees F. I want to know if anyone out there only uses one brood chamber? What is the advantage of having 2 or 3 , could you not just make certain that you supplied enough honey suppers, so the excess bee population could hang out there, therfore they would not be crowding the brood box? Debbie (from Canada.) ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 22:26:34 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Paul Cronshaw, D.C." Subject: Carpenter Bees Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I realize this is a Honey bee-list but I need a little help with another bee problem. I have a patient who called me about Carpenter Bees. Seems they are drilling holes into shutters that adorn her front house just like woodpeckers. Nice piles of sawdust. One local extreminator had been little help with the problem (seems they know alot about termites but little about this species of insect). Are there any easy ways to rid a structure of these wood eating insects? Thanks for any input. Paul Cronshaw, D.C. Cyberchiro and Hobbyist Beekeeper Santa Barbara, CA USA ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 22:38:45 -0700 Reply-To: mwr@hotcity.com Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Michael Reddell Subject: Re: Just to say Hi! (1 box or 2?) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Debbie wrote: > > I want to say Hello to all the Beekeepers out there! Isn't it great to be > able to > communicate like this via the net. I find everything about this place quite > exciting. I started beekeeping last May/96, I caught a wild swarm and > since then have increased to seven hives using only the old swarm's queen. > I am having twenty nuke boxes made and I'm just about ready to put my new > queen cells in. Last winter I put my hives in the basement of our house, I > really think this might have given the bees an advantage this spring. It > was about 45 degrees F. I want to know if anyone out there only uses one brood > chamber? What is the advantage of having 2 or 3 , could you not just make > certain that you supplied enough honey suppers, so the excess bee population > could hang out there, therfore they would not be crowding the brood box? > > Debbie > (from Canada.) Sounds like you hit the ground running! Sounds great. The question about 2 brood boxes or 1 is floating around in several threads right now. As I see it, it's sort of a toss-up with regional climatic and floral factors coming into play to fuel the controversy. A typical queen can lay at least 1500 eggs a day under optimal conditions, and they take about 21 days to emerge as workers. There are about 1200 cells in a deep frame. To keep the story simple, let's say your queen is laying 1200 eggs a day. That means she's filling a frame every day. In 21 days she can fill 21 frames. Factor out the honey and pollen band around the brood on most frames and you have a queen capable of building up to well over 2 deep boxes of brood under good conditions. It takes more than 21 days to reach this point, since buildup is dependant on several factors, including the number of nurse bees available to cover. (You have to have bees to make bees.) Once you top out the queen's potential, things stabilize, since at that point more workers go into the field sooner and the life expectancy of those workers drops off to about (you guessed it) 21 days. (I've always wondered if giving a queen as much space as she could possibly use - say 3 deep boxes - and managing in such a way as to keep it open for brood would reduce the swarm impulse. In nature the space is either too small or gets honey-bound, and in managed hives she rarely gets that much space. Has anybody tried it? It sounds like a lot of work to me.) Whether or not you want all this brood production depends on local conditions: If you have a strong spring flow for buildup followed by one huge burst of nectar for a month or two in early summer, you probably want a huge work force to take advantage of it and should probably give the queen all the room she can use as early as she can use it. On the other hand, if you have a long steady nectar flow that runs on into the fall months, the need for a huge rapid buildup isn't so urgent and other factors come into play, such as, whether you move the colonies around a lot for pollination. If so, a double brood box might be more hassle than it's worth. There are some other factors in productivity of colonies, but the main one is population. More bees per hive make more honey. Fewer bees per hive make less honey. Put another way, 60000 bees in one hive will do much better than 60000 bees divided evenly between 3 hives with 20000 each. Another factor in the 1 box 2 box decision is how you prepare for winter. If you need a strong colony with lots of stores in the fall, the traditional 2 box system works pretty well. If you don't really have winter, and there is a reasonable winter flow, then you might prefer a more stable population through the year, and not see a need for 2 boxes. As with so many other things in beekeeping, it all depends on your temprament and circumstances and preferences and prejudices. I've greatly simplified the considerations to fit them into this note. There is no definitive answer that works for everybody anywhere. I got my start in north Idaho, and still prefer 2 boxes of brood, even though most of the people I know in central California are staunch advocates of the single box. They seem to do just fine, and so do I. The important thing is to come to your own conclusions and know why you did so. The main value of this list is to stimulate the process. Michael Reddell mwr@hotcity.com http://www.hotcity.com/~mwr ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 00:08:36 -0700 Reply-To: mwr@hotcity.com Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Michael Reddell Subject: Re: Wool MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit j h & e mcadam wrote: > I believe that bees consider any animal of any size a possible hazard to the > hive in knocking comb or stealing honey (bears, possums) and it is the > animal scent itself that alerts them. Sheep and cattle graze around my > hives but I note they are targeted if the bees become agitated while we are > working the hives. I have been told that the smell of horses is enough to > irritate a hive and never to go from working livestock to a hive (not a > problem for us) but it may explain why so few farmers here can successfully > manage hives as a part time occupation. Well, I kept a cow for the first 3 years I worked with bees and often worked the bees after working with the cow and had no problem. I was averaging 3 stings a year back then and working in t-shirt and short pants most of the time. I think the key phrase in your response is "if the bees become agitated..." I'm talking about when the bees are calm. Even then, wool is a problem. If you don't believe it, tie a clean wool sock around your wrist and open your most gentle hive. Be gentle and use smoke and see for yourself! But just remember that you do this at your own risk! I also think it's interesting in light of your comment about horses that a significant amount of wool is used in the construction of horse tack. I've never worked with horses, so I have no idea if their odor agitates bees. I did pick up a swarm from a horse corral this year without incident though, and the horses were present when I arrived. Michael Reddell mwr@hotcity.com http://www.hotcity.com/~mwr ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 08:48:07 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Aaron Morris Subject: Discounts for BEE-L subscribers!? I don't think so... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Regarding the suggestion that some company should extend a discount to members of BEE-L, I will offer a distributor's view (and for the record, I ain't one!). Discounts are given to VOLUME. Look at any price list and you will see that you pay most for single units, less for units greater than 10, but the real savings don't kick in until you buy in lots of 100 or more, some companies for some equipment don't offer discounts until you buy in lots of 1000 (look at queen rearing stuff). Even though there are many members of BEE-L, a company that might corner the market on subscribers would for the most part still be dealing with small orders to many buyers rather than a large volume to a single destination. The overhead of counting, packing and shipping would still be on the company with no real benefit for extending a group discount to a large group of mostly small potatoes beekeepers (apologies in advance to the big guys). Now, if some member of BEE-L would care to buy volume and offer the equipment in small lots to subscribers at volume prices, feel free. But guess what? You'd be doing a distributor's job gratis! Volume discounts for subscribers is a nice idea, but I doubt you'll find a distributor willing to take on the headache when one distributor or another is going to get your business anyway. Discounts for small orders is a nice idea, but walk a mile in distributors' shoes and it becomes easy to see why there will be few if any takers. Volume discounts for small orders ARE achievable if you can pool resources and find someone willing to do the distributors' chores for no compensation. This would be a good project for clubs and associations. But realistically, don't expect distributors to offer discounts merely because you subscribe to an electronic forum. That would be like expecting A.I. Root to discount their equipment merely because you subscribe to "Gleanings". Nice idea, but it ain't a gonna happen! Aaron Morris - thinking I deserve a discount for defending distributors' rights! ;) ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 06:55:24 -0600 Reply-To: allend@internode.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Allen Dick Organization: The Beekeepers Subject: Re: 1 box or 2? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT > > I want to know if anyone out there only uses one brood > > chamber? What is the advantage of having 2 or 3 , could you not just make > > certain that you supplied enough honey suppers, so the excess bee population > > could hang out there, therfore they would not be crowding the brood box? > A typical queen can lay at least 1500 eggs a day under optimal > conditions, and they take about 21 days to emerge as workers. There are > about 1200 cells in a deep frame. Hmmm. I just counted the cells on a sheet of Permadent and got about 42 by 78 on each of 2 sides. That amounts to about 6550 cells per standard comb. At nine combs per box, that yields ~59,000. Divided by 21 that is ~2800 cells available for brood and stores per day. Ten frames provides more. As I recall, the standard box was originally designed to provide enough space for a normal queen to function well. I've broken many many double brood colonies down manually at peak of buildup to put all the brood and queen into a single for comb production and seldom found a queen that had more than a standard box of brood. Some would have brood on 12 or so combs, but then it be comprised of some half combs of brood, and, if consolidated, would fit on 9. Most had about 7 or 8 frames full of brood, so after a yard of working 24 hives - many with 9 frames - we would have 3 or 4 extra supers with brood to use for nucs. We found that the singles from comb production did not winter as well as the doulbles, but attributed that to the fact that the queen had to compete with nectar for cells during the flow, since the supers were entirely full of foundation. Allen ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 10:56:02 -0600 Reply-To: Charles Harper Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Charles Harper Subject: Re: Discounts for BEE-L subscribers!? I don't think so... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Wed, 28 May 1997 08:48:07 EDT, Aaron Morris wrote: >Regarding the suggestion that some company should extend a discount to >members of BEE-L, I will offer a distributor's view (and for the record, >I ain't one!). Discounts are given to VOLUME. Look at any price list >and you will see that you pay most for single units, less for units >greater than 10, but the real savings don't kick in until you buy in >lots of 100 or more, some companies for some equipment don't offer >discounts until you buy in lots of 1000 (look at queen rearing stuff). > >Even though there are many members of BEE-L, a company that might corner >the market on subscribers would for the most part still be dealing with >small orders to many buyers rather than a large volume to a single >destination. The overhead of counting, packing and shipping would still >be on the company with no real benefit for extending a group discount to >a large group of mostly small potatoes beekeepers (apologies in advance >to the big guys). > >Now, if some member of BEE-L would care to buy volume and offer the >equipment in small lots to subscribers at volume prices, feel free. >But guess what? You'd be doing a distributor's job gratis! Volume >discounts for subscribers is a nice idea, but I doubt you'll find a >distributor willing to take on the headache when one distributor or >another is going to get your business anyway. Discounts for small >orders is a nice idea, but walk a mile in distributors' shoes and it >becomes easy to see why there will be few if any takers. > >Volume discounts for small orders ARE achievable if you can pool >resources and find someone willing to do the distributors' chores for >no compensation. This would be a good project for clubs and >associations. But realistically, don't expect distributors to offer >discounts merely because you subscribe to an electronic forum. That >would be like expecting A.I. Root to discount their equipment merely >because you subscribe to "Gleanings". Nice idea, but it ain't a gonna >happen! > >Aaron Morris - thinking I deserve a discount for defending distributors' > rights! ;) > What works for us down here in South Louisiana, there are 6 or 7 commerical beekeepers within 50 mile of each other. We get to getter and make on large order so as to get enough stuff from one supplier as to get a truck load as the freight is a major cost to us. Then it is shipped to one beekeeper central to us and we all unload the truck and cart back our goods home. Charles Harper Harper's Honey farm 1000 + Colonies ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 12:03:05 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: bartlett Subject: wool socks Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This stinging thing is not just honey bees! While cleaning fish at a table last summer, with nothing on but shorts, cap, socks and canvas shoes I was attacked by many bald faced hornets. And where did they sting me? Only on the SOCKS! The hornets nest was under the table. billy bee ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 11:39:25 CST6CDT Reply-To: Blane.White@state.mn.us Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: BLANE WHITE Organization: Minnesota Dept of Agriculture Subject: (Fwd) (Fwd) Re: 1 box or 2? Hi All, Allen is right about the numbers of cells per frame. I just did some calculations and find it interesting. However that is a foundation size of a little more than 750 cells / sq dm. Natural comb measurments that I looked up claim 825 to 850 cells / sq dm. That leads to more cells per frame at 850 cells /sq dm that should come to about 7300 cells per frame if 1/3 of each comb is used for broodrearing that comes to 4900 cells per frame or about 44000 cells per 9 frames which comes to 2100 eggs per day. It begans to seem that maybe the deep hive body was designed for a good queen on the smaller natural cell foundation and that may be why we sometimes see more than 10 frames of brood in a colony but as Allen says that is usually because only part of the frame is used for brood. FWIW blane ****************************************** Blane White State Apiary Inspector Minnesota Department of Agriculture 90 W Plato Blvd St Paul, MN 55107 http://www.mda.state.mn.us phone 612-296-0591 fax 612-296-7386 bwhite@mda-is.mda.state.mn.us ******************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 13:21:43 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Faith Andrews Bedford Subject: Re: Carolina News and Question on Wet Honey In a message dated 97-05-21 10:48:15 EDT, Dave G reen writes: << We have never had a batch of our own honey ferment, but I think this one will. If it were our own honey, I'd put it back on the bees, rather than extract it. We have no sophisticated drying equipment. >> Dave: I'm far from sophisticated myself but, I notice, when I'm warming up my honey to make it easy to pass through fine nylon mesh prior to bottling that alot of steam rises up. My honey has always done very well at the fair based on water to sugar ratio and I've thought that this steam meant that some excess water was leaving the honey. You wouldn't want to boil it for that might distort the flavor but perhaps keeping it just below simmer so that steam rises would help with the excess water. P.S. It's always helpful if people put their towns and states somewhere in their address. When you report on what is going on I sometimes wonder "where." I think you once said Myrtle Beach, SC. Is that right? We are considering moving to Dataw island, a sea island off Beaufort and I'm always interested to see what's going on in that nec of the woods. Faith Andrews Bedford, Ivy VA and Tampa ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 14:47:38 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Dusty Rhodes Subject: Re: Discounts for BEE-L subscribers!? I say, WHY NOT? In-Reply-To: <970528.084816.EDT.SYSAM@cnsibm.albany.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 08:48 AM 5/28/97 EDT, you wrote: >Regarding the suggestion that some company should extend a discount to >members of BEE-L, Discounts are given to VOLUME. > >Even though there are many members of BEE-L, a company that might corner >the market on subscribers would for the most part still be dealing with >small orders to many buyers rather than a large volume to a single >destination. The overhead of counting, packing and shipping would still >be on the company with no real benefit for extending a group discount to >a large group of mostly small potatoes beekeepers . Sorry to disagree, but a real benefit for extending a discount to a large group of small potatoes coustomers is the large increase in sales and coustomer base. Since you would then be buy larger quantities, the shipping cost (to your warehouse} per item would then be reduced, and you might get a volume discount from the manufacturers which means a lower cost of goods sold Volume >discounts for subscribers is a nice idea, but I doubt you'll find a >distributor willing to take on the headache when one distributor or >another is going to get your business anyway. IMHO, it depends how hungry one vender is for business and/or whether a vender will sit back and say that you will either buy from me or my competitor anyway. Discounts for small >orders is a nice idea, but walk a mile in distributors' shoes and it >becomes easy to see why there will be few if any takers. It only takes one agressive company.... How do you think the air fare wars start? > >Volume discounts for small orders ARE achievable if you can pool >resources and find someone willing to do the distributors' chores for >no compensation. This would be a good project for clubs and >associations. This is a very good suggestion and quite workable. But realistically, don't expect distributors to offer >discounts merely because you subscribe to an electronic forum. That >would be like expecting A.I. Root to discount their equipment merely >because you subscribe to "Gleanings". Nice idea, but it ain't a gonna >happen! You may very well be correct that it will not happen. Maybe all the vendors are satified with their share of the market, they will not offer lower prices, better service, or other incentives to attract new customers. I am not in the bee supplier business, however I have lower prices than my competition, am open 7 days to their 5 1/2, and open later by 2 hrs. a day. I do offer 10% discounts to firemen and peace officers. My business is growing. Dusty Angel's Old Town HomeBrew http://www.netropolis.net/dusty/homebrew.htm Beauty is in the hands of the beerholder! ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 15:23:32 -0500 Reply-To: h2o@inu.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Tina Waters Organization: LoneStar Heritage Farm Subject: Hi all MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi all, my dad (Herold D. Waters)is the one on the bee list. But he can't get on much becoss he works late sumtimes. So you'll be hereing from me most. I'm his daughter. Marcy D. Waters ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 17:53:31 +0100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Gordon Scott Subject: Re: 1 box or 2? In-Reply-To: <13131911209239@systronix.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Wed, 28 May 1997, Excerpts from BEE-L wrote: > Hmmm. I just counted the cells on a sheet of Permadent and got about 42 > by 78 on each of 2 sides. That amounts to about 6550 cells per standard > comb. > At nine combs per box, that yields ~59,000. Divided by 21 that is ~2800 > cells available for brood and stores per day. Ten frames provides more. > As I recall, the standard box was originally designed to provide enough > space for a normal queen to function well. I happen to have some numbers to hand, though it probably varies a little depending on the bees and/or the foundation tolerances. MDs with 11 frames : 85,000 worker cells Langstroth with 10 : 61,000 worker cells UK National with 11: 50,000 worker cells (cute little frames :-) I've regularly heard here that a queen can lay up to 2000 eggs a day. I personally think they can peak nearer 3000, but probably not for long. In the UK, a 9-MD frame box usually works out ok (IMHO), but I have seen a spring-laying queen lay up about 15 (MD) in a 'good pattern' (she wasn't supposed to do that ;-). Presuming she only actually half-filled each frame, _that's_ around 2800/day for 21 days. Regards, Gordon. -- Gordon Scott gordon@apis.demon.co.uk gordon@multitone.co.uk (work) The Basingstoke Beekeeper (newsletter) beekeeper@apis.demon.co.uk Gordon's Apis Home Page Beekeeper; Kendo 3rd Dan; Sometime sailor. Hampshire, England. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 29 May 1997 06:49:09 +1000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: mal ramage Subject: Ants Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hi All, I am trying to obtain names of species of ants that are classed as Nectar/ Honey/Pollen/Beeswax omnivores. Also if anybody can direct me to specific reference literature in relation to this,then it will be greatly appreciated. (books / research articles) Many thanks. Regards Mal Mal Ramage Mal Ramage C/- Post Office or University of Tasmania BURNIE TAS 7320 North West Centre AUSTRALIA 16-20 Mooreville Road BURNIE TAS 7320 AUSTRALIA e-mail < mramage@postoffice.utas.edu.au > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 17:39:43 -0500 Reply-To: snapshot@pbmo.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "M. C. Michel" Organization: Snap Shot Subject: Re: Essential Oils MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------CA048150652E6B6D293E2A73" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------CA048150652E6B6D293E2A73 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I was reading a article in ABJ (April, I think) and was wondering, What about the essential oils? I'm using apistan strips earlier this spring. The article stated that success was had using these oils, but it never said HOW? I like the idea of using something more "natural"...so: Does anyone have info as to how much, what kind etc? Thanks, M. Chris Michel Poplar Bluff, MO ++++++++++++++++++ Volant, faciunt, floremus (they fly, they make We prosper) --------------CA048150652E6B6D293E2A73 Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii; name="vcard.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: Card for snapshot@pbmo.net Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="vcard.vcf" begin: vcard fn: snapshot@pbmo.net n: ;snapshot@pbmo.net email;internet: snapshot@pbmo.net x-mozilla-cpt: ;0 x-mozilla-html: FALSE end: vcard --------------CA048150652E6B6D293E2A73-- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 13:19:31 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Urs Schaufelbuhl Subject: Re: Carpenter Bees Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >I realize this is a Honey bee-list but I need a little help with another >bee problem. > >I have a patient who called me about Carpenter Bees. Seems they are >drilling holes into shutters that adorn her front house just like >woodpeckers. Nice piles of sawdust. One local extreminator had been little >help with the problem (seems they know alot about termites but little about >this species of insect). > >Are there any easy ways to rid a structure of these wood eating insects? > >Thanks for any input. > > >Paul Cronshaw, D.C. >Cyberchiro and Hobbyist Beekeeper >Santa Barbara, CA USA Why destroy the Carpenter bees? If you are talking about the"osmia lignaria" aka Orchard Mason Bee, a benevolent,non agressive insect and powerful pollinator, why not provide housing? 250 females are said to be able to pollinate a two acre apple orchard. A 4 by 4 or 6 by 6 block of wood with 1/4 inch holes drilled about 3 inch deep in a 1/2 inch pattern is readily accepted when hung in a shetered place(under the eaves). Hopefully they will accept the ready made house over the yet to be build one. Ref. Bekey and Klostermeyer, "Orchard Mason Bee" Washington State University Extension Service Bulletin 0922, July 1981 Griffin, Brian "The Orchard Mason Bee" Knox Cellars Publishing, 1993 I hope this helps some. Urs Schaufelbuhl Urs Schaufelbuhl have a :-) day ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 19:18:52 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ian Watson Subject: Re: Essential Oils MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi all I was just wondering what the attachment was that M.C.Michel sent with his post..My computer says it cant open it up... Ian Watson ian@gardener.com St. Catharines, Canada (near Niagara Falls) real estate agent gardener homebrewer baritone beekeeper--> 5 colonies, 5 nucs on order ---------- > From: M. C. Michel > To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU > Subject: Re: Essential Oils > Date: Wednesday, May 28, 1997 6:39 PM > > I was reading a article in ABJ (April, I think) and was wondering, What > about the essential oils? I'm using apistan strips earlier this > spring. The article stated that success was had using these oils, but > it never said HOW? > > I like the idea of using something more "natural"...so: > > Does anyone have info as to how much, what kind etc? > > Thanks, > > M. Chris Michel > Poplar Bluff, MO > ++++++++++++++++++ > Volant, faciunt, floremus > (they fly, they make We prosper) > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 20:25:38 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: chestnic Subject: Re: carpenter bees MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit if they are a real problem then just get a water hose with a nozzle and spray them when they fall stomp on them or play a game called capenter bee baseball where you take a bat to them when they hover 2 feet away from your face ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 20:28:25 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: chestnic Subject: Re: Carpenter Bees MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit i'm have a carpenter bee right in front of me in a container and it is drunk i gave it a drop of alchohol ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 20:35:26 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: chestnic Subject: Re: Carpenter Bees MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit try this address http://www.accessone.com/~knoxclr/ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 15:19:00 GMT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Andy Nachbaur Organization: WILD BEE'S BBS (209) 826-8107 LOS BANOS, CA Subject: Blue Orchard Bees ---------------------------------------- Blue Organists's Each spring as regular as day brings the night the Blue Bee Boys put out their press annual release on how they have found a new bee to replace honeybees for pollinating. It just is not true, all one has to do is invest a small amount of time and money in purchasing these bees and you will find that for other then their natural territory they are less then useless for early pollination for the bulk of commercial tree fruit at least here in central California. My own board of these bees came out after the apricots and almond bloom here in Los Banos and then did only replace themselves with no increase. Soon the vacant bores will be replaced by Leaf Cutter Bees, and I must admit that I have learned that in a early season the leaf cutter bees come out earlier then the normal for this areas as they have already started to fill the empty blue bee holes. I have a hard time believing that those who call themselves bee scientists do not get a bad case of diaper rash after reading this annual report. I am sure they would say "well, we don't write our own PR and are not responsible",...Take it from me Blue Orchard Bees will never replace honeybees in orchard pollination, and our HoneyBee's have not disappeared as hyped by so many for what ever their personal reason's, mostly I suspect to gain public interest and funds for projects that would not stand or pass any normal peer review or the daylight of public input. If you want to read this years PR Hype on the Blue Orchard Bee try this address: http://www.modbee.com/ag/abs0.htm A quote from the old hat PR from the USDA at Logan, Utah: "Substitutes drafted for honeybees" "Researchers have identified some substitute bees to do the job of the popular European honeybee," ttul, the OLd Drone (c) Permission is granted to freely copy this document in any form, or to print for any use. (w)Opinions are not necessarily facts. Use at own risk. --- ~ QMPro 1.53 ~ http://194.112.46.22/public/default.htm (Amigabee BBS) ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 20:36:10 +0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: George_Willy Subject: B list Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Take me off the bee list. Thank You George Willy George & Lorraine Willy The Village Inn of East Burke Box 186 East Burke, Vermont 05832 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 28 Jun 1997 23:07:25 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Debbie Subject: Bees in my basement. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hi ! Rodger, Nice to meet you. Late in August last year, I Being new at the bee thing, decided to make an increase in my hives. I didn't have anyone to tell me that this is not the right time of year to do this sort of thing. Anyways I increased from one very strong hive to seven. I took my old swam queen away and those bees raised 17 new queen cells. On the 10th day I divided the queen cells equally between the 6 new nuks. About the 1st of October I checked the hives and found that the new queens were laying well. Unfortunitally when I divided the hives I also divided up the work force and there wasn't enough workers or season left to gather honey and pollen to keep them over the winter. To make matters worse yellow jackets started to steal the only food stores they did have. I sat with fly swatter killing those jackets, they made me so mad, and I was mad at myself for doing such a stupid thing. I thought I am now going to lose ALL my bees to starvation. I thought I could feed them , but then someone said that they would die anyways because the sugar water would freeze. I found an old beekeeper who told me that years ago bees were always brought into the basement, and as long as they were kept cool and dark they would stay in their hive. So I fed them all winter and had a fan going to move the air around. They only ate up 14lbs of sugar each and when I took them out this spring had increased enough to fill the hive. I think they didn't have to eat as much because they didn't have to generate their own heat. Next winter I am Going to bring them in again, but this time they will have enough of their own honey. Thats the story in a nut shell..... Debbie Ontario, Canada ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 22:42:30 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Curtis L. Spacek" Subject: Re: Carpenter Bees MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit would this work on bumble bees?I got a bee call today and went o check it out.this is an elderly woman on a fixed income with about 70-100 bumbles eating holes in an old garage with old boards over rotten boards.there is really no way to find and pioson allthe holes individually.would a pine 4x4 with 1/2" holes attract the bees? thanks in advance,Pasadena,Texas