From LISTSERV@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU Mon Jun 30 09:39:28 1997 Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 09:28:47 -0400 From: "L-Soft list server at University at Albany (1.8c)" To: Adam Finkelstein Subject: File: "BEE-L LOG9706A" ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 1 Jun 1997 06:56:47 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: John Moore Subject: KENNEL PROBLEMS Hi to All: One of my apiaries is situated at an Herb Farm. They also have a kennel. The owner stopped me yesterday and asked me to indentify some bees that were in the kennel. Needles to say they are honey bees and probably mine since I have 6 hives located on the property. Their was about 6 bees in the run when I looked. The question is what are they atracted to and will they bother the dogs. She also said that she boards two beagles around August that are alergic to bees. I first thought was maybe they were after the water that was in the runs with the dogs (Their is water for the bees the same distance as the Kennel for the bees ie running water) I told her they were just looking around. Thanks for the input. John Moore 3rd year 20 Hives N. Smithfield, RI ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 1 Jun 1997 13:17:42 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ian Watson Subject: Re: Brown bees... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Debbie and all.... --------- > From: Debbie > To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU > Subject: Brown bees... > Date: Tuesday, July 01, 1997 10:22 PM >SNIP< > My buckfast have always been very..... hot. I got attacked whenever I go > near them. Four days ago I killed their queen and trapped and killed the > drones because I don't want them to cross breed with my little wild brown > ones. I am in 7 days going to split the buckfast workers up into 20 nukes > and give them each a brown queen. >SNIP< > The last time I worked the buckfast they got in my suit and stung me 11 > times. They were always hot heads. Well...I don't know what kind of bees you have, but I will bet you a TON that those are NOT Buckfasts. By definition,one of the characteristics of the Buckfast is that it is Gentle...which I can vouch for personally, as I have two Buckfast colonies and I work them wearing no more than short pants and a tee shirt. They almost completely ignore me when I open the top of the hive, whereas my "regular" bees all look up at me from between the top bars. > P.S. These bees have a black thorax, with dark brown/tan body hair, then > the first band on their abdoman is a bit wider than the rest of the bands, > it is brown/tan in colour, the next is a black narrower band, then a narrow > brown/tan, then a narrow black, then narrow brown/tan, and then the tip of > their abdoman looks like someone dipped them in black paint. They look > to be smaller than buckfast, and they are all coloured the same, whereas I > noticed that the buckfast verried in uneven markings to different shades of > colours. The drones of the brown bees are black with chocolate brown > hair. The buckfast drones are lighter with a golden body hair. Also, this makes no sense. Any Buckfasts I have seen are very uniform in colouring. I will leave it to more expert beekeepers and Buckfast owners to take it from there as far as the breeding goes. I think your "Buckfast" queen may have died or swarmed and what you have is a queen that has been made by the bees and has been mated by some non-Buckfasts bees. Anyone else care to comment?.. Regards, Ian Watson ian@gardener.com St. Catharines, Canada (near Niagara Falls) real estate agent gardener homebrewer baritone beekeeper---> 6 colonies, 3 nucs on order ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 1 Jun 1997 13:14:49 -0400 Reply-To: megabite@mindspring.com Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Brian B. Bonner" Subject: Re: Rejected posting to BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > Can anyone tall me how to Turn off this list? I thought I did and > deleted the welcome message, but it didn't seem to work. > Thanks > > -- > > -==- -- -==- ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 1 Jun 1997 10:38:20 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Larry Lindahl of AGF 722-2825 FAX 746-1292 Subject: Queen Piping MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Hello Bee-L'ers What produces the sound of "piping"? Mechanism? How is it accomplished? Spiracles? Wing Joints? (vocal cords - chuckle) Any comments out there? Cheers!! Larry Lindahl ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 1 Jun 1997 14:17:52 -0700 Reply-To: mister-t@clinic.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Bill Truesdell Subject: Re: Brown bees... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit We have seen mean Buckfast in Maine. I have never attributed any absolute to any strain of bees or people. There are good kids and bad kids from the same family. Those "bad" genes have a tendency to pop out when you least expect or want them. And that includes temperment and coloration. Where did that redhead come from? Bill Truesdell Bath, ME ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 1 Jun 1997 16:23:29 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: David Green Subject: Re: Bees killed by paint fumes? In a message dated 97-05-31 02:38:42 EDT, paulc@silcom.com (Paul Cronshaw, D.C.) writes: << It also got very hot over the last 3 days into the low 90's. I am wondering if the combination of new paint and hot temps created fumes that permeated the hive resulting in a large loss of bee population. Are any of these ingredients toxic to bees? Are there certain paints (flat latex, etc) that are safer for beehive woodenware paintings? Thanks for any input. >> Probably not the paint. If it were you'd have seen the damage sooner. I've used latex paints and had bees in the hives within a day, with no noticeable effects. Oil paints take a bit longer to really dry. But I use them, as soon as they feel dry to the touch, with no adverse effects. I'd be suspicious of pesticides. Someone in the area poisoned some flowers the bees were working on. Look around the neighborhood. What is blooming that bees would work? Is there a layer of Sevin on the neighbor's butter beans? Just because not all hives are affected equally does not eliminate this possibility. I've had yards of 40-50 hives within a mile of a pesticide violation site, and had a half dozen severely affected, others with moderate effect, and others with no noticeable effect. Some hives may be working harder than others, so they get hit worse. And all hives will go where their scouts send them, which may be in different directions for different hives. If you find something that has been poisoned, find out what the material was, and get a copy of the label. You will most likely find a label violation (pesticide MISuse). Make the applicator do it right! Make sure he knows that the bees have the legal right-of-way, and he has got to do his applications in accordance with the label directions or be prosecuted. Pollinator@aol.com Dave Green, PO Box 1200, Hemingway, SC 29554 (Dave & Jan's Pollination Service, Pot o'Gold Honey Co.) Practical Pollination Home Page Dave & Janice Green http://users.aol.com/pollinator/polpage1.html ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 1 Jun 1997 16:59:52 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "(Thomas) (Cornick)" Subject: Re: Brown bees... In a message dated 97-06-01 13:21:20 EDT, you write: << Also, this makes no sense. Any Buckfasts I have seen are very uniform in colouring. I will leave it to more expert beekeepers and Buckfast owners to take it from there as far as the breeding goes. I think your "Buckfast" queen may have died or swarmed and what you have is a queen that has been made by the bees and has been mated by some non-Buckfasts bees. Anyone else care to comment?.. >> I have got to say thay I for one like the Buckfasts and am having good luck with them. Who cares what race or breed a bee is -once the hive turns nasty requeen and eliminate the aggravation. After all a good craftsman give himself every possible advantage and a mean hive will make you less thorough in your management an inspection. I have heard the more experianced say they get great crops from aggressive bees but I like working without gloves and keeping bees in town. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 1 Jun 1997 16:39:45 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Paul Cronshaw, D.C." Subject: Bee-List Archives Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" It appears that I keep asking questions on material that has appeared one time or another on this list. Can someone give me directions on how to do a search on the archives? And where are the beekeeping FAQs located? Thanks. Paul Cronshaw, D.C. Cyberchiro and Hobbyist Beekeeper Santa Barbara, CA USA ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 1 Jun 1997 20:31:14 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Paul Basehore Subject: Re: Brown bees... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 04:59 PM 6/1/97 -0400, you wrote: >In a message dated 97-06-01 13:21:20 EDT, you write: > ><< > Also, this makes no sense. Any Buckfasts I have seen are very uniform in > colouring. I will leave it to more expert beekeepers and Buckfast owners > to take it from there as far as the breeding goes. I think your "Buckfast" > queen may have died or swarmed and what you have is a queen that has been > made by the bees and has been mated by some non-Buckfasts bees. > > Anyone else care to comment?.. >> > I have got to say thay I for one like the Buckfasts and am having good >luck with them. > Who cares what race or breed a bee is -once the hive turns nasty requeen >and eliminate the aggravation. > After all a good craftsman give himself every possible advantage and a >mean hive will make you less thorough in your management an inspection. > I have heard the more experianced say they get great crops from aggressive >bees but I like working without gloves and keeping bees in town. > I have Buckfast and they are doing good but my Italian bees are out producing them. Anyone know if drones know if a queen is a virgin or not in the hive and if a virgin queen doesn't mate what do the workers do if there isn't any eggs in the hive to make another queen cell? ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Jun 1997 06:25:50 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "JG~NY" Subject: Re: Dark bees from England, Buckfasts Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hi Debbie and all, AFAIK, The native British bee is said to be *extinct, at least as it once existed. Back in the 1920's there was the so-called "Isle of Wight" epidemic and supposedly all the native bees in England succumbed. It was a time of huge colony losses. The "disease" was likely the same thing as tracheal mites, which we have had to deal with here in NA for several years now. It would seem probable that some British native stock made its way to North America, and Canada especially, before the disease hit, but I have never heard comments or info about this. Indeed, an interesting possibility. Once the British bees fairly well disappeared, a lot of Italian and French stock was imported to England, and those survived eventually, notably the dark grey or black European bee, Apis mellifera mellifera or A. m. carnica, and the Italian Apis mellifera ligustica. However, some contend that the original British bee is still with us today in certain areas of the UK, and it can be identified by physical characters. If you want to find out more about the British native bees, look for the BIBBA *British Isles Bee Breeders Assn.* home page. There is a great deal of related information there. One of the founders of the BIBBA (can't remember the name, & now deceased) recently wrote a fascinating book called HONEYBEES OF THE BRITISH ISLES. The work covers well the history of beekeeping with the native bees, and also examines the anecdotal/empirical evidence that the British bee does in fact still exist in some areas. It has a thorough treatment of the British bee's characteristics, color, behavior, etc. It is very interesting reading. I don't remember them mentioning Canada in there (solely the British Isles), but maybe they folks at BIBBA could give you some further info. The British bee had (has) a small, compact nest compared to the more prolific races, flies at lower temperatures, is brown, as you mentioned, and has other unique qualities of behavior and appearance. I hope you can find out more about this subject. I would be interested to know more if you do. By the way, you can keep the Buckfasts around if you want. Mating is not something you can control, and the drones from many colonies (some distance away) are likely to be lurking around anyway. The Buckfast as bred by Br. Adam does contain a certain amount of native British blood, I believe, so some of the qualities of the Brit bee have actually been propagated in that form. The Buckfasts are much less prone to infestation by tracheal mite than others, however, which is a big plus. I just went through 9 B'fast colonies this afternoon. I was pleased but not surprised to find that they were not preparing to swarm, even though most of the "mongrel" bees in the other hives are really in a swarming mood lately. I find the Buckfast remarkably consistent and a great deal more hardy than other bees. Well good luck and do fill me in if you get some interesting info on this. Comments & corrections solicited. What say, British BEE-L'ers?? best regards, Joel Govostes Freeville NY USA ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Jun 1997 13:37:19 GMT+0200 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Garth Organization: Rhodes University South Africa Subject: Foundation costs in other countries Hi all Just thought I would post to find out what some of you pay for foundation in your respective countries? Here is is about R5.50 for a brood frame sized sheet. That translates to around U$1.30 or so. Just interested. Keep well Garth --- Garth Cambray "Opinions expressed in this post may be those 15 Park Road of Pritz, my cat, who knows a lot about Grahamstown catfood." 6140 *garth@rucus.ru.ac.za* South Africa Phone 27-0461-311663 In general, generalisations are bad. But don't worry BEEEEEE happy. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Jun 1997 15:48:15 GMT+2 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Annelize van der Schyf Organization: NIPB Subject: Honeybee eggs Is there somebody that can give me advice on the best - quickest and most accurate - way to determine if honeybee eggs are haploid or diploid or haplo-diploid? Thank you in advance. Annelize van der Schyf Annelize van der Schyf PPRIAVDS@PLANT4.AGRIC.ZA Insect Ecology Division Plant Protection Research Institute, PPRI Agricultural Research Council. Private Bag X134 Tel. (012) 319 7110 Pretoria Fax. (012) 323 5275 0001 International Code (+2712) Republic of South Africa ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Jun 1997 09:09:51 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: STEVE PHILLIPS Subject: Laying workers I've learned (the hard way) that a hive of laying workers cannot be requeened. Can, however, a hive of laying workers be combined with a healthy hive using the neswpaper/queen excluder method, or will they just kill the queen once they get through the newspaper? Has anyone ever tried? ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Jun 1997 11:25:35 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Stiphane Blanchard Subject: Trouble! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Bee-Listers, Thanks for the info you are sending all the time. This morning, I opened my hives to feed them. They are taking that syrup in a very fast way! Unfortunetely though, one of them appeared to be queenless. No brood, and no visible queen. I'm just a beginner and could be mistaken but I saw a lot of capped brood in the other hive. Interestingly, about three weeks ago I had seen brood in both hives but just a very few. What do you think I should do? I don't think there is any queen available yet in this part of the world(Canada). If I put one on top of the other would that help? Could I even try to put the quuen in the bottom with no brood and than the brood in the top with a queen excluder and try to requeen that part or would that make both of them too weak? Thanks in advance. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Jun 1997 10:25:31 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: J Troyer Organization: Honey Hill Farm Subject: Re: Trouble! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Perhaps you can put a frame of new brood from your good hive into the queenless hive. The bees should be able to raise a new queen from that. Hope that helps! JT ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Jun 1997 11:27:01 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jim Moore Subject: FYI: retrieving a swarm 30 feet up without a ladder. Well last Thursday, May 29, my swarmy hive swarmed again, after having returned to the hive the last time they swarmed. This time the swarm settled 30 feet up in an aspen tree. I don't own a ladder but did manage to get the swarm down and hived. I thought I would share the method that I used. The materials are inexpensive and the construction is simple. My technique is evolving. Handling the long pole requires a little technique. Materials needed: 3 sections 1/2 inch electrical conduit pipe (24 feet total). 2 conduit connectors 2 1x3x10 inch boards as joint supports 6 conduit clamps with screws 2 photocopy boxes, one with cover. tape for taping the box to the pole 1 sheet to put under the receiving box I assembled the conduit and attached the box to the end of the pole. Fully assembled it was about 24 feet long. I became obvious that the two joints need to be reinforced so a cobbled together some clamps and screwed them to some scrap lumber like so: 1 Board Section ___________________________________________________ /__________________________________________________/| | | | | |o| --------- |o| |o| | | (======| |============ couple ===| |==========| |================) 1/2' Pipe )=====| |============ ===| |==========| |===============( | |o| --------- |o| |O| | | |__________________________________________________|/ clamp clamp clamp ......................................................................... Fully assembled pipes and box ___ 6' ___ 8' ___ 10' / /| ==============|___|================|___|====================/__/ / box |__|/ board board With the added weight of the boards and the box on the end of the pipe it became obvious the I could not stand the pipe up from horizontal to vertical without it bending. Two sections could be raised and the last section added while vertical. The last section should be about your height as you need to be able to handle the 18' pole and insert the last section. I did this be leaning the pole against the tree to steady it. It was also clear that I needed to set up the receiving box two pole sections away to be able to dump the bees into the box. To get the bees I positioned the box below the cluster and thrust it up into the cluster. About 40% of the bees fell into the box. I removed the first pole section and lowered the poles and then tilted the box over to the open receiving box. A good number of the bees got dumped into the box which I then covered. (The box had an entrance cut into the side as well) Two more repetitions, dumping the bees on the sheet in front of the entrance and I was done. The next morning I installed the bees in a newly prepared hive. This swarm's position did permit me to stand directly underneath, thus permitting the pipe to be vertical and able to support the added weight of the bees without bending the full length of the pipe. Anything above 30' would not seen practical given the current construction materials and methods. Direct overhead access permits the 30' lenght. Less than veritcal access would require the swarm to be lower. I hope this encourages others to attempt retrieval safely from the ground rather that perched on the last step of ladder or out on the a limb of a tree. Regards, Jim Moore Second Year Beekeeper 5 hives (1 tbh); 1 Nuc ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Jun 1997 10:23:00 CDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Otto, Warren" Subject: FW: Trouble! I am also a new beekeeper and have the same problem here in Manitoba. There are no eggs or brood in one hive, but the hive seems to be operating 'normally'. I installed packages in both hives on May 5. I have ordered a new queen from Bee Maid in Winnipeg. They have a shipment of Hawaiin queens arriving on Wednesday, June 4. Now all I have to do is find the current queen to kill her off (if she even exists). Bee Maid will ship out queens. Their web page is http://www.beemaid.com/manitoba/manitoba.html. Can anyone say why the workers wouldn't lay eggs if the queen isn't? Warren Otto Lorette, MB --------- From: Stiphane Blanchard To: BEE-L Subject: Trouble! Date: Monday, June 02, 1997 11:25AM Hi Bee-Listers, Thanks for the info you are sending all the time. This morning, I opened my hives to feed them. They are taking that syrup in a very fast way! Unfortunetely though, one of them appeared to be queenless. No brood, and no visible queen. I'm just a beginner and could be mistaken but I saw a lot of capped brood in the other hive. Interestingly, about three weeks ago I had seen brood in both hives but just a very few. What do you think I should do? I don't think there is any queen available yet in this part of the world(Canada). If I put one on top of the other would that help? Could I even try to put the quuen in the bottom with no brood and than the brood in the top with a queen excluder and try to requeen that part or would that make both of them too weak? Thanks in advance. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Jun 1997 10:44:17 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: J Troyer Organization: Honey Hill Farm Subject: Bee Crosses MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Has anyone found a Buckfast, Yugo(ARS-Y-C-1) cross? If so, what have you observed about the queen (color, etc.) and the hive in general. Thanks, JT ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Jun 1997 11:34:58 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Bill Mares Subject: Menthol use Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain I'm sorry if I missed any recent thread on menthol use. I'd like some advice on the best manner and time to apply this treatment. And if anyone has something better , please post. Thanks, Bill Mares. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Jun 1997 10:19:05 PDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Dennis Subject: Re: Laying workers MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; X-MAPIextension=".TXT" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Steve Phillips asked about how to deal with a colony with laying workers. Best way I've found to deal with a laying worker colony when in a yard = with other colonies is to shake it out on the ground and give the equipme= nt to a strong hive that needs more space, or remove it from the yard com= pletly. The healthy workers will go to other hives, the laying workers = will disappear. No fussing with paper or loss of good queens, no return = for further manipulation or other loss of time. Five minuits of your tim= e and you are done! A better use of any further effort is to make a spli= t of a good hive. Good Luck!! Dennis Morefield Sideline Beekeeper, Oregon, USA denmar@mind.net ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Jun 1997 17:42:34 GMT Reply-To: Tim_Sterrett@westtown.edu Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Tim Sterrett Organization: Westtown School Subject: Re: Laying workers I've learned (the hard way) that a hive of laying workers cannot be requeened. Can, however, a hive of laying workers be combined with a healthy hive using the neswpaper/queen excluder method, or will they just kill the queen once they get through the newspaper? Has anyone ever tried? ************** Yes, put the healthy hive on top over a piece of newspaper with some slits cut into it. And, yes, I have done this successfully. (I guess you ought to put the laying worker colony under the healthy hive on the healthy hive stand. ) Tim Tim Sterrett Westtown, (Southeastern) Pennsylvania, USA tim_sterrett@westtown.edu ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Jun 1997 17:47:02 GMT Reply-To: Tim_Sterrett@westtown.edu Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Tim Sterrett Organization: Westtown School Subject: Re: Trouble! No brood, and no visible queen. I'm just a beginner and could be mistaken but I saw a lot of capped brood in the other hive. Interestingly, about three weeks ago I had seen brood in both hives but just a very few. What do you think I should do? ************** As insurance, in case there really is no queen in the apparently-broodless hive, you can put into the broodless hive a frame with eggs and brood from your other hive. Then, if necessary, the bees can raise a new queen. Don't move the queen from the good hive by mistake! Tim Tim Sterrett Westtown, (Southeastern) Pennsylvania, USA tim_sterrett@westtown.edu ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Jun 1997 13:23:16 -0600 Reply-To: Charles Harper Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Charles Harper Subject: Re: Laying workers MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Mon, 2 Jun 1997 09:09:51 -0500, STEVE PHILLIPS wrote: >I've learned (the hard way) that a hive of laying workers cannot be >requeened. Can, however, a hive of laying workers be combined with a >healthy hive using the neswpaper/queen excluder method, or will they >just kill the queen once they get through the newspaper? Has anyone >ever tried? > Another method is to shake all bees out , then combine the equipment however you wish as the laying workers will be killed by the other colinies. Charles Harper Harper's Honey farm 1000 + Colonies ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Jun 1997 13:32:12 -0600 Reply-To: Charles Harper Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Charles Harper Subject: Re: Foundation costs in other countries MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Mon, 2 Jun 1997 13:37:19 GMT+0200, Garth wrote: >Hi all > >Just thought I would post to find out what some of you pay for >foundation in your respective countries? > >Here is is about R5.50 for a brood frame sized sheet. That translates >to around U$1.30 or so. > >Just interested. > >Keep well > >Garth > >--- >Garth Cambray "Opinions expressed in this post may be those >15 Park Road of Pritz, my cat, who knows a lot about >Grahamstown catfood." >6140 *garth@rucus.ru.ac.za* >South Africa Phone 27-0461-311663 > >In general, generalisations are bad. >But don't worry BEEEEEE happy. > Here in south USA, wax foundation is going for $4.00 pre pound with about 6 sheets per pound, plastic foundation goes for about $.65 per sheet in large lots 5000 or more Charles Harper Harper's Honey farm 1000 + Colonies ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Jun 1997 16:31:04 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Beverly Ellen Stanley Subject: Re: FYI: Retrieving a swarm 30 ft. up, with a ladder Dear Jim: I loved reading your method of retrieving a swarm. We are also second year beekeepers, and we weren't prepared for the one hive we had to swarm so early in April. We thought it was too cold to open it earlier, got a warm week, had to go away, and came back to a very active hive. We planned to take care of it that weekend, but when I looked in the backyard, I was bees all over the place. Then they swirled into the classic swarm and settled at the top of our neighbor's tallest pine, which was about 30 ft. high. This was my youngest son's hive (age 10), and I couldn't let them get away, so I called his school and asked Sr. Helen Loretta if she could fulfill a request that she probably not had before. Could Kevin come home and retrieve his swarm of bees? Stunned, she laughted and said yes. Kevin borrowed the neighbor's two story ladder and went up it and the pine with a pruning hook. Watching him in awe and trepidation, I told Wally, our neighbor who thinks we're crazy now, that I sure wasn't going up that tree. I'm afraid of heights. Alas, Kevin was not tall enough. What a mother will do for the love of her children! When I looked down from about the 20 ft. mark, I clutched the branches around me for dear life, and told Kevin never to question my love for him. All I could think was how angry my husband would be at me if I fell doing such a silly stunt. Directly above me was a very large swarm. It was bigger than a beach ball and just dense with honeybees. I stretched the pruning hook above the swarm, and after a lot of maneuvering, hooked the main branch that the swarm was balled up on. Thinking of that mass of bees falling on my head, geared up as I was, made my heart do a few flips. At 45 yrs. I've had six children and several surgeries, so I am not an athelete and not terrible youthful. I pulled the rope and prayed. It didn't cut through the branch. I wasn't strong enough! So, slowly, carefully, I began to make my way down the ladder, holding onto branches, and still thinking of the thing hanging over my head. The branch bent with each step down, but it didn't break. When I came within about six feet of the ground, an idea began to form. If I jumped backwards, the bees wouldn't fall on me. I couldn't go any further down the ladder though; The branch would give. So I did what I had to do. I jumped. One hundred-seventy-five pounds descending quickly exerts enough force on a rope to cut through a one and a half inch pine branch. The branch came down, the bees landed on a makeshift table right in front of me. We scooped them up, put them in a box, and drove to S&F Honey Farm in Flemington for a new hive. They stayed and now it is our strongest hive. In fact, it was just split. The "mother" hive swarmed two more times, another lower pine and a climbing rosebush (that was the hardest yet!). We had switched the supers so the brood was on top and added an extra super, but they already had other plans I guess. After the last swarm, we went in and pinched all of the developing queen cells. I was getting pretty tired of climbing trees. Neither of us were stung. Now, from one hive, we now have a total of five hives. It's too many for our residential neighborhood. For fear of the neighbors becoming panicky, we are going to offer two for sale. It sure was fun though! Learning from our mistakes, Bev and Kevin ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Jun 1997 16:10:46 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: J Troyer Organization: Honey Hill Farm Subject: Re: FYI: Retrieving a swarm 30 ft. up, with a ladder MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In response to trying to get a swarm with a ladder: Last year my husband wanted to get a swarm that was WAY up in a tree. He decided to shoot it down with a shotgun. That was a sight to see! The strangest thing was that it worked! We put a paper cat carrier under the tree, he shot the branch, and the entire thing fell in the box. Somehow, it worked, but I don't recommend it for the fainthearted or those with poor aim. I did get a good laugh out of the whole thing!!!! As for the paper cat carrier, you can get them from the vets. They are perfect for swarms and bees like them. After you put the swarm in the box you can carry it to the permanent hive. Neat--even has a handle! JT ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Jun 1997 19:11:21 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: bartlett Subject: Swarms Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit For all you beekeepers in the Northeast------------ Better lookout after this rainy cool spell because your bees may swarm. They don't like to do it in this kind of weather but the first nice day and they are going to be swarming. billy bee Valley Lee, Maryland ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Jun 1997 21:33:47 +0100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Sheri Iodice Subject: WANTED - USED EQUIPMENT or UNWANTED BEES Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" We are new beekeepers in Massachusetts and would be interested in buying used equipment and/or adopting a no longer wanted active hive(s). Any leads? Please reply. Thanks. sheri ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Jun 1997 22:17:48 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Curtis L. Spacek" Subject: Re: HONEY BEE ACT 1922 STATUS MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit So whats the deal?As I stated about 2 weeks ago "this is the U.S. government.All politicians are for sale to the highest bidder.Bubba this ain"t no secret.Undoubtedly the New Zealand bee industry members have bought another US government official.In order to stop NZ bees from entering the USA you have to pay more than the NZ beekeepers did.It's a very simple and basic fact of government operations all over the world at all levels from (obviously) the whitehouse to the city dog catcher. The fact is we run around with our heads in the sand trying to believe; that good always triumphs over evil,this is the best system of government in the world,and whatever our government does is bound to be good for us.WAKE UP,VOTE,VIOCE YOUR OPPINIONS AND PRINCIPLES LOUDLY,and make these peoples lives miserable until they represent their constituants as they were elected to do or fire them at the ballot box. It's amazing that people are too cheap to buy influence but don't complain at all when the very same gov. forcefully confiscates over 40% of their income as a voluntary tax to give to other nations which in turn use this money to buy influence in the US gov. Go figure.Just a fancy way to get our money in their swiss bank accounts whithout blatantly just stealing it straight from the treasury. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Jun 1997 23:13:29 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Paul Cronshaw, D.C." Subject: Mighty Mites Wiping Out Wild Honeybee Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/enriched; charset="us-ascii" GenevaMighty Mites Wiping Out Wild Honeybee Other species are stepping in to pollinate America's plants by Charles Petit, Chronicle Science Writer Bye bye, busy bees. Many Bay Area gardeners have noticed that a long-familiar, buzzing presence around backyard flowers has all but vanished. In a broad ecological shift, common European honeybees are essentially gone from non-agricultural areas in Northern California, and across most of the nation. Their killer is a tag team of two parasitic mites that arrived in the United States from Asia 10 to 12 years ago. They are wiping out wild honeybees and harming bees raised in commercial hives. Pollination of many crops, as well as backyard fruit trees and vegetables, is suffering. In wild areas, experts hope, consequences will be minor as native pollinators fill the breach. People don't say "busy as a bee" for nothing, and bee lovers are aghast. "Bumblebees are good, but nothing works like a honeybee," said Leonore Bravo of the San francisco Beekeepers Association, a federation of about 30 hobbyists who keep bees in SF. The honeybee situation, she said, "Is terrible, it's a disaster." Traditionally, April has been a busy month for her group, with daily calls from residents who want bee swarms cleared from their property. When she reached the only reported bee swarm in April this year, on a sidewalk in the Mission District, "some idiot had poisoned them," she said. While the Bay Area appears particularly hard hit, few areas are spared. "We are seeing levels of killing of feral colonies ranging from 15 percent to 100 percent, in every state except Hawaii," said Kim Kaplan, a spokeswoman for the federal Agricultural Research Service. Wild honeybee populations are still healthy in New Zealand, Hawaii and parts of Scandinavia. But experts think it is only a matter of time before honeybees there, too, begin dying by the millions. Other pollinating insects, including many thousands of species of native but less well-known bees, seem to be increasing as the once-dominant honeybees die off. It is a change that is easy for a casual observer to miss. For instance, in Berkeley recently, a flowering backyard crab apple tree looked normal enough, enveloped in a busy cloud of pollinating insects. Only on close inspection was it clear they were nearly all plump bumblebees, their legs burdened with large, yellow clumps of pollen. A few other kinds of flies and wild bees -- such as sweat bees and digger bees -- also danced from flower to flower. Not a single common honeybee was to be seen. "Some people are putting in zucchini and only getting little nubbins and no gourds," said Eric Mussen, an apiculturist with the University of California Agricultural Extension. "They probably live where there aren't any other pollinators to take over the job." Commercial beekeepers must use chemilca treatments and special care to keep their broods alive. A recent survey found that from 1995 to 1996, the number of commercial hives in the country dropped about 20 percent. Honey prices are rising. Beekeepers got about 50 cents a pound two years ago. Now they get closed to 90 cents. The most severe impact by far is on honeybees that form free-living colonies in old trees, the walls of houses and elsewhere. These account for the vast majority of the total honeybee population. Some experts see a beneficial side to the honeybees' problem. "This is not a bad thing for native plants and animals," said Howell Daly, professor emeritus of entomology at the UC Berkeley. "The native, wild bees are able to build up their numbers. We're returning to a community of pollinators that we here until just a few hundred years ago." The victims are the honeybee species Apis mellifera, or European honeybee, brought to North America by the first colonists in the early 17th century. Native Americans often called them the "white man's bee" because swarms moved ahead of settlements, heralding the invasion. As they spread, the new honeybees outcompeted and suppressed the populations of many native bees and other pollinators. They are vital to the nation's, and the world's agriculatural productivity. The victors in this battle are two unrealted kinds of eight-legged parasite. One is the tracheal mite, a creature so small it lives inside the bee's breathing passages. The other, as big as a dog's or cat's flea, is the Varroa mite. It hitches rides on the backs of bees, spreading from hive to hive and infesting the brood-chambers in the honeycomb where young bees metamorphose into adults. The Varroa "sucks the life blood right out of the young bees," said Stephen Buchmann, an entomologist at the Arizona-Sonora Desert Museum outside Tucson. If they hatch at all, he said, the young bees may emerge misshapen and crippled. The tracheal mite first appeared in the US in about 1985. The Varroa mite showed up in 1987. And while tracheal mites can be controlled by dousing commercial hives with menthol crystals and Varroa succumb to a pesticide called fluvalinate, no treatments for wild hives are practical. Scientists from the US Dept. of Agriculture are looking for a nonchemical solution. At the USDA's Honeybee Breeding Genetics and Physiology Laboratory in Baton Rouge, La, researchers are breeding colonies of honeybees from eastern Russia that they believe carry genes for resistance to the mite. Other researchers are trying to breed bees that groom and clean themselves very aggressively, in the hope that they will keep the mites at bay. Confusing the situation is the recent arrival in Texas, parts of Arizona and New Mexico, and the Imperial Valley in Southern California, of Africanized or so-called killer bees -- a species of honeybee that is more aggressive than the commong European honeybee. So far, it is unclear whether the mites will help control the Africanized bees, too. Some beekeepers in Mexico say the Africanized bees seem to be less susceptible to the mites. In the long run, said Daly, the honeybees will probably rebound, though perhaps not to the numbers they have had until recently. "In time, the honeybees will become resistant to the mites," he said. "In the meantime, there isn't much you can do about this." Paul Cronshaw, D.C. Cyberchiro and Hobbyist Beekeeper Santa Barbara, CA USA ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 03:14:03 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Trevor Weatherhead Subject: Re: wax foundation prices Garth Cambray asks what price is paid for wax foundation. Here in Queensland, Australia, I take wax in to be made into foundation and it costs me A$0.25 (i.e. 25 cents) a sheet to have it milled. That would be about 33 cents US. That is for what we call medium brood which is 15 sheets to the kilo. That would be about 7 sheets to the pound. If you want to just buy the medium brood wax foundation, it is $0.69. That would be about 91 cents US. If you are an amateur and do not have a Tax File Number (which is something all commercial beekeepers have) then you pay an extra 22% tax on top of the price. You can get what we call heavy foundation i.e about 12 sheets to the kilo but that is dearer. There is plastic foundation sold in Australia but that price varies and will be going up at present because it is imported from the US and our dollar has got weaker in the past few weeks. Trevor Weatherhead AUSTRALIA ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 07:09:49 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Richard Blohm Subject: Re: HONEY BEE ACT 1922 STATUS In a message dated 97-06-03 01:06:24 EDT, you write: << So whats the deal?As I stated about 2 weeks ago "this is the U.S. government.All politicians are for sale to the highest bidder.Bubba this ain"t no secret.Undoubtedly the New Zealand bee industry members have bought another US government official.In order to stop NZ bees from entering the USA you have to pay more than the NZ beekeepers did.It's a very simple and basic fact of government operations all over the world at all levels from (obviously) the whitehouse to the city dog catcher. The fact is we run around with our heads in the sand trying to believe; that good always triumphs over evil,this is the best system of government in the world,and whatever our government does is bound to be good for us.WAKE UP,VOTE,VIOCE YOUR OPPINIONS AND PRINCIPLES LOUDLY >> I THINK WE'VE GOT THE BEST GOVERNMENT MONEY CAN BUY! RICH B, NY, USA ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 07:59:59 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Conrad Sigona Subject: Re: wax foundation prices In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII > Here in Queensland, Australia, I take wax in to be made into foundation and it > costs me A$0.25 (i.e. 25 cents) a sheet to have it milled. That would be > about 33 cents US. That is for what we call medium brood which is 15 sheets > to the kilo. That would be about 7 sheets to the pound. I believe A$0.25 would be the equivalent of US$0.19. That is, US$1.00=$A1.30 or so reports the Wall Street Journal. You probably multiplied instead of divided. Conrad Sigona conrad@ntcnet.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 08:50:28 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Greg Hankins Subject: Re: Bees killed by paint fumes? In-Reply-To: <33902CE0.4F9E@concentric.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" JT wrote: > >We have had bees moving back and forth in that pattern and were told >that it is a random act called "washboarding." I've read about this in my *old* edition of ABC & XYZ and noticed my bees doing it the other evening. The book implied that it's just a form of loafing when the bees have nothing else to do. Anybody got a better explanation? Greg ______________________________________________________________ Greg Hankins Montgomery Packaging ghankins@ac.net Troy, North Carolina Voice: (910)576-0067 Fax: (910)576-0367 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 09:36:03 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jim Moore Subject: Re: Bees killed by paint fumes? >>We have had bees moving back and forth in that pattern and were told >>that it is a random act called "washboarding." >I've read about this in my *old* edition of ABC & XYZ and noticed my bees >doing it the other evening. The book implied that it's just a form of >loafing when the bees have nothing else to do. Anybody got a better >explanation? As a programmer I always consider that it is some "logic" that is instictively being "executed" on the bees part. I assume it is young bees who are supposed to be cleaning cells but due to nectar in the cells or a hot hive they move outside and execute the behavior anyway. I have no evidence that they are the young bees but it seems resonable to me. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 10:10:27 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: David Verville Subject: Re: WANTED - USED EQUIPMENT or UNWANTED BEES MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sheri Iodice wrote: > > We are new beekeepers in Massachusetts and would be interested in buying > used equipment and/or adopting a no longer wanted active hive(s). Any > leads? Please reply. > > Thanks. > sheri Where abouts in MA? Dave Verville ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 4 Jun 1997 00:11:41 +0200 Reply-To: jtemp@xs4all.nl Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jan Tempelman Organization: Home Subject: Re: Foundation costs in the Netherlands MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-2 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit in the Netherland broodframes are 340 x 198 mm ( 13 5/12" x 7 3/4") superframes are 340 x 140 mm ( 13 5/12" x 5 1/2") 1 kg cost Fl 17.50 (will bee 10 US$) broodframes I 13 sheets superframes I 18 sheets in my ouw press, very thick, more stable. broodframes I 9 sheets superframes I 14 sheets old wax: clean Fl 15,- ( solar, or steam press) dirty Fl 12,50 old foundation, with brood rest Fl. 7.50 -------------------------------------------- Jan Tempelman / Ineke Drabbe | EMAIL:jtemp@xs4all.nl Sterremos 16 3069 AS Rotterdam, The Netherlands Tel/Fax (SOMETIMES) XX 31 (0)10-4569412 homepage webside: http://www.xs4all.nl/~jtemp/index2.html with some pages in english on solitary bees. NEW PAGES ON THE FIGHT ON THE VARROA MITES. http://www.xs4all.nl/~jtemp/dronemethod.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 23:57:40 +0100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Keith Hall Subject: Re: Dark bees from England Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Yes,in answer to Debbie from Canada and Joel Govostes, black bees are still around in UK, I have been keeping them for nearly 20 years now. While I do not claim is that they are the "original British black bees", their genes are probably predominantly of that race. Black bees are still common in the north of England (where I live) and Scotland with some beekeepers managing to keep strains going further south. The old race evolved to succede with the climate and flora of this country. They are still succesful bees here now even though modern agriculture means a very different flora. The bees, assisted sometimes by beekeepers, have changed to take take advantage of the changing flora and local conditions. For example in a moorland area, the main flow is heather starting as late as mid August so a late developing strain would have been advantageous before migratory beekeeping. Beekeeping methods can also promote evolution, eg skep beekeeping would have encouraged swarmy bees. So while the books might give general charachteristics of the the race, there is quite a lot of variation which a breeder can use to advantage. The biggest difficulty in maintaining the charachter of the old strain is that for over 100 years, some beekeepers have thought that foreign races should be better performers (the grass is always greener on the other side of the fence!). So there have been imports from all over the world - and still are - resulting in uncontrolled crossbreeding. A thoroughbred strain of black bees are enjoyable to keep perform well, some imports likewise BUT the crossbreeds can be the very devil. A spate of imports of New Zealand bred Italians into this area by one ot two beekeepers caused many others to complain bitterly of bad tempered bees for the first time. When the imports stopped, the black strain reasserted itself, probably because it is better adapted to the weather patterns. However to keep good tempered, low swarming, productive black bees demands breeding effort by the beekeeper because there are just too many mongrels around. Time pressure has meant I have neglected this recently and I can see the changes in behaviour as well as in the appearance of a small percentage of bees with yellow bands in some colonies. So if there has been all this crossbreeding over the last century, how do we know present black bees are native or near native? The best evidence for this is wing vein measurements - measuring the relative lengths of certain wing veins and angles between them. In a good pure bred stock these measurements are surprisingly consistent but are quite different in the different races of bees. But still we need to proove that the measurements of our black bees are the same as bees before imports started. Recent evidence means we can do this. An archeaological excavation of a Viking settlement in York unearthed a skep dating from the 10th (from memory) Century. In it were quite a number of bees and bee fragments which had been preserved. Local beekeepers who heard of this arranged for wing vein measurements to be taken which gives the base line aganst which to compare our colonies. There are plenty of black bees around in this area with very similar wing vein measurements. I believe they are worth maintaining both because they are sucessful in their own right and because it is sensible to maintain the gene pool for future generations of beekeepers and bee breeders. Regards Keith Hall ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 4 Jun 1997 01:43:36 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Kuyckx Maurice Subject: vespa crabro MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hallo dear beekeepers, yesterday after noon,we were drinking a fine cup of coffee near GENK in BE (Sit 51,2N and 4,06E) Suddenly we observated a big VESPA CRABRO, it was a very beautiful queen , she was working for her Vespa kids. I d'nt know if this Vespa crabro (more than 5 centimeters long) is living outside of Europe? Who knows it. sig Maurice. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 22:10:00 GMT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Andy Nachbaur Organization: WILD BEE'S BBS (209) 826-8107 LOS BANOS, CA Subject: The Sky is Falling? Posted over from the sci.agr.beekeeping news group. ---------------------------------------- The Sky is Falling, all the honeybees are DDD, dead, diseased, or dying, so says the press releases with quotes from the best academic minds, all doctorates in entomology or beekeeping and all feeding on the problems of the beekeepers at the public trough. For sure we beekeepers are not strangers to problems and like all in agriculture our numbers have declined since the 1940's, 50's, 60's or what ever base year you want to examine. But we are not gone yet and in fact all this hype is nothing more then that. Crops are not suffering from the lack of honeybees to pollinate them, though some would lie, steal and cheat to create that opinion in the public mind to further their own interests...and sadly many beekeepers are followers and do much among themselves to perpetuate the untruths and half truths of the condition of the honeybee industry. Our industry has always been plagued by cyclic problems in the health of our bees and these are well documented for any to review so I won't bother listing them as is the beekeeper movement west and north to better pastures. Half truths and untruths are hard to take to the bank, and today beekeepers and farmers who depend on their bees to produce bountiful crops are making more trips to the bank, and not always to take away money.. The almond industry in California last year had a BILLION $$$ crop, and this years crop is estimated to bee 39% larger, and many of us in the field believe that it is much grater then the estimates, but 710,000,000 pounds of almonds is a pile of almonds and of course this means they will be less costly to the consumer and more of us will be able to enjoy them in more ways for breakfast, lunch and dinner. The total acreage of almonds in California continues to grow along with some other insect pollinated crops. According to the latest results just released of the 1996 Acreage Survey there were 466,777 acres of almonds growing and in 1997 420,000 of these acres were bearing. No problems have been reported to this reporter of ANY shortage of bees to pollinate these acres, and considering the size of the crop beekeepers should be congratulated for doing a excellent job of distributing their bees to the almond growers for pollination. Growers continue to believe in the future of the beekeeping industries ability to deliver honeybees for pollination and new planting continue at levels that tax the ability of the nurserymen to produce new trees..NO almond growers are rushing out to buy their own bees as bees and beekeepers are in good supply and are providing good bees for pollination at a reasonable cost. Prune's continue to increase in acreage having 100% been replaced by industry and homes in the Santa Clara valley they now are found in the northern interior central valley and the acreage has expanded to 102,726 in 1996 with 22,504 acres of young non bearing orchards, much grater then the old days when San Jose was the prune capital.. In 1996 California also had 34,000 acres of bearing apples, 12,900 bearing cherries, 19,100 bearing Bartlett pears, 25,000 acres of strawberries, and all of these insect and honeybee pollinated crops are reported as NOT suffering from any lack of pollination, mostly honeybee pollination. The facts are keeping bees is a lot of work, problems can be found by any who wants to concentrate their efforts on looking, but the beekeepers don't have time for that and its so pathetic these annual re-runs of the beekeeping industries obituary each year from the academic and regulatory community it's laughable, and they wonder why the industry gives them, the academics and others, less then token support...., no one likes to read half truths and lies about themselves, and these professionals are the experts.. ttul, the OLd Drone 6397 (c) Permission is granted to freely copy this document in any form, or to print for any use. (w)Opinions are not necessarily facts. Use at own risk. --- ~ QMPro 1.53 ~ ... Barbs has it, like a bee. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 20:44:51 -0600 Reply-To: allend@internode.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Allen Dick Organization: The Beekeepers Subject: Bee Mites And Mineral Oil MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Dr Rodriguez attempted to post this to BEE-L last week, and to my knowledge, it has not been forwarded by the LISTSERV, so I gather he is one of those having trouble posting. Therefore he has asked me to send it along to the list. Here is Dr Pedro Rodriguez's release regarding his mineral oil research: --- Bee Mites And Mineral Oil I wish to apologize for the delay in publication of details of my work on this subject. The reasons are unintentional and compelling. There were many questions that I felt needed to be answered (some of which I am still pursuing) and because I suffer from double vision (from a bout with hyperthyroidism) that induces severe headaches after periods of field work, reading, use of word processor and other tasks that require eye strain. Although the project is incomplete, I feel that my findings are significant and valuable to beekeepers who may wish to implement them. Also, my findings may be valuable to other investigators who may wish to perform related work on this subject. Hence release of present findings is considered appro- priate at this stage. (Technical language and statistical data has been carefully limited). Background: Born and raised on a farm, I was initiated with animal husbandry chores as a very young child. I started caring for sick animals by smuggling them into pens heavily crowded by my "patients." I still recall my parents' admonitions for "wasting" time and money on "worthless" causes, especially my mother's for using her castor oil to treat leg mites on chickens and ear mites on rabbits. My experience with mineral oil continued when as a young veterinarian I used mineral oil for treating ear mites on cats. Later in my career, mineral oil became part of my professional "tool bag" when as a government supervisor of food plants, I approved the use of food grade mineral oil for maintenance of food preparation equipment. I observed the first Varroa mites in 1983 while working with honey bees in Spain. From that date, I became fascinated with the ability of the little creatures for attacking honey bee colonies and eventually destroying them. At the time, Fulvex was the chemical of choice in Europe for treatment and cure of bee mites. I suspected mites would eventually develop re- sistance to Fulvex as most often happens with chemicals used for disease control, fact that was later corroborated by other investigators (Faucon et al, 1955; Lodesani et al, 1955; Smodgen et al, 1955). The potential need for a different agent to treat bee mites in case the mites develop resistance, led me to wonder if my "oil treatment of old" would be as effective for the treatment of bee mites. While pondering about this possibility, many other questions arose in my mind. 1. would mineral oil affect honey bees? 2. mode, quantity and frequency of application of the oil. 3. would the oil affect bee larvae or the egg laying ability of the queen? 4. could the oil be applied all year long or be limited to seasons? 5. what would be the mechanism of action of the oil? >From my previous experience, I knew that oil kills mites. I became intrigued with the idea of finding the answer to this puzzling question and started researching literature on mite biology, anatomy, physiology and other factors that could lead to the answer deriving the following data. 1. the body of the bee mites is flat, thus having a high ratio of surface volume (factor also used by Italian researchers of bee mites as expressed on a recent post to Bee-L), charac- teristic that make bee mites vulnerable to treatment with oils. 2. mites, like honey bees, breathe through spiracles. The bee/mite body size differential ratio may be utilized to attack the mites with oil without harming the bees. 3. mites utilize body pores for diffusion of gases and for moisture intake (Gary et al, 1989; Gary et al 1991b; Pugh et al 1992). A study with female mites has demonstrated that mites control gaseous exchange through adjustment of components of their respiratory system (Pugh, PJA; King, PE; Fordy MR Na: Experimental and Applied Acarology, Vol. 15, No. 2, pp 123-139, 1992). 4. mites have a short life cycle (12 days for tracheal mites and 18 days for Varroa mites) and are most vulnerable to treatment during their ectoparasitic phase. After eleven years of consecutive loses of bee colonies to mites and the economic impact that these parasites were having on apiculture worldwide, it was obvious that it was imperative to find an effective treatment for the parasites. Realizing that after continued treatment of my colonies with Apistan strips, mites continued to proliferate and that colony health and size were diminishing, I determined that a vigorous form of treatment had to be implemented. On 1 April 1996, I applied Apistan strips (three strips per colony) between frames in the brood chambers. After six weeks of treatment with Apistan, four colonies had perished and mites continued to proliferate in all remaining colonies. Based on my knowledge of success- ful treatment of mites on domestic animals, treatment was switched from Apistan to mineral oil. All the Apistan strips were removed (after waiting two weeks to allow Apistan to wear off) before starting use of mineral oil in an effort to eliminate the possibility of cross effect between the two agents. Treatment with food grade mineral oil was initiated on 1 June 1996 on twenty colonies while five colonies (randomly selected) were used as controls. Rationale: Mineral oil is effective in the treatment of mites on domestic animals. Food grade mineral oil is approved for use in food processing plants in the United States because it is not toxic and because it does not contaminate food products. Hence, mineral oil, if effective against bee mites, could be utilized for the treatment of bee mites during the entire year contrary to other acaricides that have seasonal limitations. The two species of bee mites existing in the United States (Acarapis woodi and Varroa jacobsoni) spend some of their life span on the surface of their host bee. Because of the known house keeping and grooming habits of the honey bee, it was reasoned that bees would "transfer" oil from their legs to the rest of their body and to other parts of the colony if they came in contact with oil. Food grade mineral oil does not contaminate honey or honey bee products and is not toxic to honey bees, provided that the oil is not applied in excessive quantities (see description of different methods of application employed). Twelve consecutive months of work with oil have revealed amazing (positive) results in the treatment and control of bee mites. Method: A. Laboratory work: 1. Mineral oil was applied with the tip of a prove directly to mites seen on bees. Close observation revealed that mites would drop off the bees (time was not measured). 2. Live mites were carefully collected from various colonies, placed in open glass jars and brought home. Some mites were treated with oil directly in the jars, others were carefully removed (to prevent physical harm) and placed on a glass surface coated with a film of mineral oil, or, on waxed paper or seran wrap coated with a film of mineral oil. Some mites were allowed to remain untreated in the glass jars, surviving for several days. Mites exposed to oil were observed to become motionless almost immediately, however, some remained active (lethal doses or lethal times were not evaluated) for some time. B. Field work: Several methods of application of the mineral oil have been tested in a period of time spanning 51 weeks, (1 June 1996 - 24 May 1996). 1. Sheets of waxed paper or freezer paper were coated with a film of mineral oil and placed on the bottom boards of the colonies. Dead mites were collected and counted. Yields varied between ten in a small colony to 112 in a large colony. 2. Strips of waxed paper (10 inches long x 1 1/2 inches wide) were coated with a film of mineral oil and placed between frames in the brood chambers. The number of strips varied between six and ten depending upon the size of the colonies. Coated strips of paper were replaced every two weeks while this form of application lasted. . 3. A continuous bead of mineral oil (up to 2.5 cc) spread on top bars of the frames. Evaluation of treatment: Effect of the mineral oil treatment was measured by counting mites by uncapping brood cells. Yields varied according to degree of infestation, size of the colonies and length of treatment. Initial count yielded as high as 54 infected cells per one hundred cells opened. Mite count varied between one to three per cell. Mite count per hundred brood cells uncapped dropped drastically (54 % in some colonies to four percent in others) as oil treatment continued. It was acknowledged that the procedure was labor intensive early in the process. Other avenues of treatment were sought in order to make the procedure cost effective to commercial operations dedicating special attention to varying quantities of oil applied. The most successful method was determined to be when oil was applied in a continuous bead along the surface of the top bars. At first, the amount of oil was measured and applied with a graduated eye dropper (available to any beekeeper), arriving at 2.5 cc of oil as a safe quantity (before the bees became soaked in oil). At present, oil is applied from a bottle (similar to a honey bear) with a spout with an opening of 1/16" diameter. Oil is applied steadily, along the top bars leaving a continuous line of oil measuring approximately the size of a thin noodle. In the beginning of the operation, it was thought that the oil should be sprayed on the bars or spread by hand. In the course of the applications it was determined that it is not necessary to spread the oil, the bees spread the oil as soon as they walk on it. I have now designed a board (from bakelite) that blocks the bees inside the brood chamber while the oil is applied. The board is fitted with slits that coincide with the top bars allowing application of the oil while perfectly barring the bees inside to prevent stinging and applying the oil directly to the bees. Observations: After 51 weeks utilizing food grade mineral oil in various ways the following observations have been made: 1. Food grade mineral oil can be utilized effectively to control bee mites (acaricide) with quantities ranging from a mere film applied on waxed paper and up to 2.5 cc applied on the top bars of the frames. 2. Mite count per hundred capped cells examined diminished drastically, (54 % to 4 %). 3. Application of mineral oil in the form described above has not affected the queen's laying ability. 4. All five colonies utilized as controls perished. (Test colonies were distributed in three sites at least ten miles apart and each site had control colonies). 5. Of the twenty colonies utilized for treatment with mineral oil: One absconded; two were small and died due to pilferage. Seventeen remaining colonies are thriving and building very large populations. Two colonies have two brood chambers and eight honey suppers each. Two colonies have two brood chambers and six honey suppers each. 6. Control colonies perished quickly due to a combination of factors: Parasitized bees became weak and abandoned their house keeping habits. Stores were quickly robbed. Queens stopped laying and the bees died fighting the robbers, from disease and lack of food. Nosema was observed in two of the heavily parasitized colonies. 7. The use of sheets of waxed paper smeared with oil and placed on the bottom boards was abandoned promptly because these were observed to become covered with debris thus reducing the effectiveness of the oil. Waxed paper or other impervious type paper placed on the bottom boards while treatment is taking place maybe valuable if used for the purpose of collecting and counting dead mites. 8. Capped cell exams revealed mites within drone cells as well as in worker bee cells. 9. Worker bee samples were collected, dissected and examined for tracheal mites. No tracheal mites were found during the test period. 10. Mineral oil was applied continuously every two weeks during the test period including the winter months. The use of mineral oil did not affect egg laying of the queens nor the health of the developing larvae. While it may seem that oil applications should be made more frequently (judging by the presence of mites after 51 weeks of treatment) economics tend to indicate that more frequent applications might be prohibitive. This remains as one of my questions still under study. Conclusion: Contrasted to the characteristics of other oils, lard, Apistan or menthol (used as acaricides), mineral oil seems to offer a preferable medium based on per unit cost, physical characteristics (odorless, flavorless, does not deteriorate, does not contaminate honey or bee products, can be utilized all year long) for utilization as an acaricide. Dr. Pedro Rodriguez dronebee@pilot.infi.net ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 21:53:27 +0000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Capt Ken Black Subject: Re: Dark bees from England, Buckfasts Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" British Bees have not disappeared morphological measurement of local honeybees has proved that there are still plenty of British Black(Apis MM)bees around. I have been collecting genetic material for the last couple of years but BIBBA(Bee Improvement and Bee Breeders Association) have been at it for considerably longer. This bee really suits our climate here. In my view it has the following benefits over other types here in Britain: Its breeding habits can be quite localized, in areas where Oil seed rape (the main crop for many)is produced the local bee starts brood rearing quite early in the spring and peaks in May, in the heather growing areas brood rearing doesn't peak until much later (Jul/Aug). As previously mentioned the Apis MM maintains a compact brood nest I aim to keep them on 11 BS frames. A bigger brood nest may produce larger surpluses in good years(as seen in some of the more prolific types) but, over a 5 year period I would say the dark bee will average out better. It will fly in the cool damp conditions often experienced in the British Isles when yellow types are snug in bed. This is also useful for breeders in that dark drones will fly much earlier in the day and are around early in the year, we have a much better chance therefore of obtaining purer matings. Another benefit as far as the VJ mite is concerned is that the dark bee has an identifiable pause in its breeding cycle. In August there is a halt in egg laying for around a month before winter bees are produced this trait provides a useful period in which to strike at the adult V mites. This bee winters particularly well, in small compact clusters, it tends to be more frugal in its consumption of winter reserves. Yellow types breed too late into the year in britain and in poor winters large numbers starve. Contrary to other views I feel that this bee is extremely robust and although IoW decease may have contributed to a large drop in their numbers other factors like The Great War and the resulting lack of good husbandry during this period also took its toll. What we have now in many areas are honeybees that have survived and are carrying that resistance in thier genes. Yes there have been outside influences but in my opinion local traits have won through in the gene survivability battle and we STILL have excellent British honeybees. I am producing around 40 Black queens this year and last years queens are producing excellent crops already. Ken Black Bay Tree Cottage 76 East St, Fritwell '\ /` Bicester, ()() Oxfordshire, England. OX6 9QF \/ 00441869345725 Fax:00441869256678 email: kblack.lisa.mod@gtnet.gov.uk "You Sir are drunk, and you madam are ugly." "In the morning I will be sober, you however will still be ugly" Sir Winston Churchill. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 4 Jun 1997 09:13:00 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Debbie Hutchings Subject: Mineral oil treatment.... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi! Everone... I think that the mineral oil treatment is a great idea. We have to start to look for remedies from nature. This treatment could be used on ferral bees and would help keep the mite from reinfesting our colonies. At the same time the bees could be developing their own resistance to the mites, and this would not be an artificial medium which when the drug is gone the mites are back in full force on bees that are sick from both the mites and the drug. I noticed that formic acid really depressed my bees, and they slowed down in brood production. I took the pads off and the bees seemed to liven up, flying and multiplying faster. This mineral oil will make the mites sick, and at the same time have no effect on the bees and they will carry on in numbers and be stronger for it. Idea.. more bees = more of a chance to develope immunity. This is just a thought I had, I am a novice. Maybe we can brain storm on this? Debie from Canada. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 4 Jun 1997 10:20:54 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Conrad Sigona Subject: Re: Mineral oil treatment.... In-Reply-To: <199706041318.JAA28371@mail.peterboro.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII > ........................................ This mineral oil will make the > mites sick, and > at the same time have no effect on the bees and they will carry on in > numbers and be stronger for it. Idea.. more bees = more of a chance to > develope immunity. I believe that immunity doesn't apply to bees' reaction to tracheal or varroa mites. It would be sort of like people developing immunity to bullet holes. You can avoid getting shot, but once you're shot, you're shot. In other words, it's a matter of behavior. For bees to take care of varroa by themselves, they would have to "learn" to kill them and remove them (as some other species of bees seem to). Further, if we remove the varroa for them (via mineral oil), they would have less reason to "learn". As for tracheal mites, I don't know if they're big enough for bees to learn to deal with. On the other hand, if we're speaking of viruses (and quite a few folks seem to believe that bee colonies die of viruses they acquire from being stressed by mites, not that they die of the mites themselves), then there's a case for immunity. Conrad Sigona conrad@ntcnet.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 4 Jun 1997 10:54:41 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Kirk Jones Subject: Re: Mineral oil treatment.... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hello all, Would someone please forward the message on Dr. "R" work with the mineral oil. I accidently deleted it. We are going to give it a go on an experimental basis. A big thanks for the idea! Kirk Sleeping Bear Apiaries Kirk;Dave;Doug;Steve Sharon Jones BeeDazzled Candleworks b-man@aliens.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 4 Jun 1997 13:31:43 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Aaron Morris Subject: Manhattan Beekeepers MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT I'm looking to make contacts with urban beekeepers in Manhattan for a member of my beekeeping association who does not have internet access. The specific question is, "Are there any urban beekeepers keeping bees on top of buildings and if so, what do you do to address the extreme temperatures of tar roof tops?". Aaron Morris - I think, therefore I bee! ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 4 Jun 1997 10:58:55 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Conrad Berube Subject: Re: KENNEL PROBLEMS Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >One of my apiaries is situated at an Herb Farm. They also have a kennel. >... what are the bees attracted to and will they bother the dogs >She also said that she boards two beagles around August that are alergic to >bees. Many species of insects, most notably male butterflies (like sulphurs) are drawn to animal urine because of the mineral salts contained therein (foremost of which for the male butterflies is probably magnesium required for maximizing sexual performance). Since magnesium is required for muscular activity in all animals this may be the draw for the bees. Or it may simply be a random effect in that a cadre of water-collectors may have discovered the water sources in the kennel and cued on the scents associated with the kennel (in the same way that foragers can cue in on things like the smell of cut grass or drying paint that are only spatially associated with the resource they are exploiting rather than an intrinsic property of that resource). You might want to try offering watering boards closer to your bees-- perhaps "salting" it initially with scents from the kennel by leaving the watering board in the kennel for a few days before moving it out into the apiary. Good luck, '\ /` ()() \/\ Conrad Berube ____ /`\ \\ ISLAND CROP MANAGEMENT / ; ; /` `\/'\\ _____________ 613 Hecate St. ` /` `' \`-===========/~~\ Nanaimo, B.C. V9R 4K4 \ \ -^\ /\____/^^^~> (250)754-2482; fax: (250)656-8922 |/ '\ '\~~~~~~~~ email: uc779@freenet.victoria.bc.ca '\ '\ website: http://vvv.com/~bwarner/ \__\__ `` `` ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 4 Jun 1997 14:33:05 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "(Thomas) (Cornick)" Subject: bee breeding I am curious if bee breeders have looked into selecting bees with longer tongues so that the range of nectar sources can be increased. Perhaps I am thinking too much about the bees.After all it is just a box of bugs ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 4 Jun 1997 16:23:48 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: L M SMITH Comments: To: asd@dowsers.org, TIE@netcomuk.co.uk, mskaarbe@online.no, monasldteach@juno.com, wilsojoh@ucs.orst.edu, tgtg@servco.com, mgoing@m1.cambrex.com, sh1022@juno.com, lexis@cw2.com, majordomo@idiscover.net, msinfo@wtp.net, zekets@mcn.net, mm-recipes@idiscover.net, cnd2771@montana.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii ADDRESS LIST - 4 June 1997 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 5 Jun 1997 00:27:18 +0200 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Kuyckx Maurice Subject: Vespa crabro- results (one) Comments: To: jsatt@gsu.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Thanks for your answer about my dear Crabro. Greetings from Belgium to Canton/USA. Sig: Maurice. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 4 Jun 1997 21:39:54 +0100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "luichart.woollens@virgin.net" Organization: Luichart Woollens Subject: Re: Mineral oil treatment....immuntiy MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Conrad Sigona wrote: > > > ........................................ This mineral oil will make the > > mites sick, and > > at the same time have no effect on the bees and they will carry on in > > numbers and be stronger for it. Idea.. more bees = more of a chance to > > develope immunity. > > I believe that immunity doesn't apply to bees' reaction to tracheal or > varroa mites. It would be sort of like people developing immunity to bullet > holes. Although it is probably quite a long shot I think that it is possible that the bees could develop an immunity to the mites. Quite a number of trees produce toxins in their leaves if they are attacked by insects and I beleive that your own body will produce a sort of insect repellant if you refrain from washing. I don't think that we should confine immunity to the cellular level. Harry Scotland ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 4 Jun 1997 22:41:25 +0100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "luichart.woollens@virgin.net" Organization: Luichart Woollens Subject: Re: Dark bees from England, Buckfasts MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Capt Ken Black wrote: > > > Contrary to other views I feel that this bee is extremely robust and > although IoW decease may have contributed to a large drop in their numbers > other factors like The Great War and the resulting lack of good husbandry > during this period also took its toll. What we have now in many areas are > honeybees that have survived and are carrying that resistance in thier > genes. Yes there have been outside influences but in my opinion local traits > have won through in the gene survivability battle and we STILL have > excellent British honeybees. > It would seem to me that if most of the British Black bees were wiped out by Isle of Wight disease then then are susceptable rather that resistant to the disease. The bees that survived probable did so because of their geographic location. These British Black bees were very dark brown in colour hence the name "Black Bee". (Debbie take note). They were not very agressive but were excitable during manipulation. They did not defend their hives very well against robbers. They are probably prone to brood diseases. I do not understand why BIBBA wants to breed back to these bees. It is perhaps an interesting academic exercise but that is about all. The bees which I, and many people in Scotland, have today are certainly very dark in colour but they are not British Black Bees. There have been a lot of bees imported into Britain over the years and I think that the resultant crosses are better than the originals. As a matter of interest there were also many French Black bees imported in the 1920's which was just after the Isle of Wight epidemic which was very similar to the British Blacks but according to R.O.B.Manley they were rather vicious. Harry Scotland ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 4 Jun 1997 19:08:52 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: John M Thorp Subject: Re: Cleaning propolis from shirts Try denatured alcohol. Take Care and GBY,John in Homestead,also at On Fri, 30 May 1997 23:00:31 -0700 "Paul Cronshaw, D.C." writes: >Bee-listers: > >I carried an empty super nect to one of my best dress shirts and go a >line >of propolis on it. > >I realize this has been a previos topin on this list, but I need to >learn >how to take propolis stains out of dres shirts and shorts. > >Thanks for any input. > > >Paul Cronshaw, D.C. >Cyberchiro and Hobbyist Beekeeper >Santa Barbara, CA USA > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 4 Jun 1997 19:17:53 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Albert W Needham Subject: Re: Bees killed by paint fumes? On Tue, 3 Jun 1997 09:36:03 EDT Jim Moore writes: >>>We have had bees moving back and forth in that pattern and were told >>>that it is a random act called "washboarding." A couple of years ago I had a large number of swarms, I also noticed these groups of bees on the landing board that I would also describe as "washboarding". After the large number of swarms ( which I feel were mostly due to my allowing a bit of overcrowding to occur), I wondered if this behavior was any indication of swarms to come? Anyone ever notice any correlation here? Al, Offering 'Unique' Honey Bee Artwork On Caps, ------- T-Shirts, Tank Tops & Sweatshirts -------- -------------Honey Bees & Doktor Finkle------------- ------ http://www.xensei.com/users/alwine ------ awneedham@juno.com.............Scituate,MA,USA ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 4 Jun 1997 18:27:48 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Dusty Rhodes Subject: Re: Mineral oil treatment....immuntiy In-Reply-To: <3395D29A.5422@virgin.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" IMHO, I think you need to think of hives of bees developing resistance to mites. It will do no good for a particular worker to be resistant. Since drone brood is where the mites tend to concentrate, a particular drone that survives the infestation, could pass along what ever quality to the next generation. With the general requeening every year, if we were to have a queen with total resistance to mites, she would just be replaced as a matter of routine beekeeping practice and her qualities of resistance lost. Now if you were to take some of her drone and use them to mate with a virgin queen, then the resistance trait could have a chance of being passed on. It is like wanting a good hunting dog and buying new dogs every year and never taking the best hunting dogs and breeding from that stock.. You might get a great hunting dog, but how will that benefit you when you replace her from another mailorder dog supplier? Dusty >Although it is probably quite a long shot I think that it is possible >that the bees could develop an immunity to the mites. Quite a number of >trees produce toxins in their leaves if they are attacked by insects and >I beleive that your own body will produce a sort of insect repellant if >you refrain from washing. I don't think that we should confine immunity >to the cellular level. > >Harry >Scotland > > Angel's Old Town HomeBrew http://www.netropolis.net/dusty/homebrew.htm Beauty is in the hands of the beerholder! ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 4 Jun 1997 22:31:52 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Beverly Ellen Stanley Subject: Re: FYI: Retrieving a swarm 30 ft. up, with a ladder I like that one! We can beat any fisherman with their fish stories. I would have loved to have seen that one! And the neighbors would have had heart attacks! Bev ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 4 Jun 1997 22:35:01 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Beverly Ellen Stanley Subject: Re: Swarms Dear Billy: Thanks for the advice! Boy, I hope I don't have to go up anymore trees. I went out and checked each hive, trying not to disturb things, to see how full they were. I did add a super onto one I just hived a few days ago. They seem happy now. Bev ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 5 Jun 1997 00:44:08 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Debbie Hutchings Subject: bee genetics book.. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi! I want the address and I want to know the amount of the bee genetics book that was advertized to us within the last week or so. My computer went down and I lost the information on this. To the person I talked to on the phone,( I'm sorry I'm not good with remembering names) I ordered one, but now I don't know where to send for it, or the amount of money I am to send to you. Debbie Hutchings 507 Hutchings Rd, Westport, Ont. Canada, KOG 1XO Debbie from Canada Thank You! ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 5 Jun 1997 02:01:03 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Sid Pullinger Subject: British Bees MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Joel Govostes wrote <<<>>>>> The man in question was Beowulf Cooper, a government entomologist and enthusiastic beekeeper. He died suddenly from a heart attack in 1982 and= the book mentioned above was compiled after his death by a Mr Philip Denwood from the mass of material he left behind. In 1964, after meeting= with several leading beekeepers he formed the Village Bee Breeders Association, whose object was "the conservation, restoration, study, selection and improvement of strains of honeybees of native or near-nativ= e type suitable for Britain and Ireland. In 1972 the name was changed to t= he British Isles Bee Breeders Association. Although the book was written fo= r British beekeepers it contains much of value to beekeepers everywhere, genetics, breeding and management in general. Sid P. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 5 Jun 1997 10:58:40 +0100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "THONE HUGO VE144 (240)9452" Subject: Re: Vespa crabro- results (one) niet voor mij ? In-Reply-To: <199706042227.AAA13057@phobos.glo.be> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT >Thanks for your answer about my dear Crabro. Greetings > from Belgium to Canton/USA. Sig: Maurice. hi maurice, ik neem aan dat dit berichtje niet voor mij bestemd was ;-) Hugo +++++ Hugo Thone (SE144) (\ {|||8- ALCATEL TELECOM (/ F.Wellesplein 1 B-2018 Antwerp do bee do bee do .... email : thoneh@btmaa.bel.alcatel.be phone : (32) 3 240 94 52 fax : (32) 3 240 99 50 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 5 Jun 1997 06:50:09 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Trevor Weatherhead Subject: Re: Conversion of A$ to US$ Thanks to Conrad for pointing out my mistake. Yes the 25 cents Australian would be about 19 cents US. How I long for the day when a dollar was worth a dollar. I noticed in our bee journal today a price for carton lots of USA plastic foundation. Our full depth was A$1.28 and manley $1.16. If I get my conversion right it would be about 97 cents US and 88 cents US. Trevor Weatherhead AUSTRALIA ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 5 Jun 1997 07:32:42 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Robert E Neely Subject: Re: Manhattan Beekeepers Hi Aaron: I kept four hives on top of my home here in (at that time Charleston County, SC) for over ten years. The temperature here can be over a hundred degrees in the summer with humidity over 90%. In the summer I placed a piece of 3/4 in plywood on top of outer cover. It extended about 5 to 6 inches overhang, held in place with a couple of bricks. The roof was not completely flat, just enough pitch for the water to run off. The hive stand was constructed so that the hives were nearly level with a 3/4 inch forward pitch for the water to run out when it rains. (You may have a problem with snow buildup in the winter.) No one ever was stung in the yard during this time. Give it a try. Bob Neely Goose Creek, SC neely-bee@juno.com On Wed, 4 Jun 1997 13:31:43 EDT Aaron Morris writes: >I'm looking to make contacts with urban beekeepers in Manhattan for a >member of my beekeeping association who does not have internet access. > >The specific question is, "Are there any urban beekeepers keeping bees >on top of buildings and if so, what do you do to address the extreme >temperatures of tar roof tops?". > >Aaron Morris - I think, therefore I bee! > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 5 Jun 1997 08:32:06 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Robert E Neely Subject: Re: Carolina News and Question on Wet Honey Hi Faith: Welcome to the "Low Country". I am about halfway between David and Beaufort. We have a group "Lowcountry Beekeepers" that meets here in Charleston once a month. Also the "Colleton County Beekeepers" meet in Walterboro once a month. Stay in touch as to when you will be arriving, etc. Bob Neely Goose Creek, SC Low Country Beekeeper neely-bee@juno.com On Wed, 28 May 1997 13:21:43 -0400 Faith Andrews Bedford writes: >In a message dated 97-05-21 10:48:15 EDT, Dave G reen writes: > ><< We have never had a batch of our own honey ferment, but I think >this > one will. If it were our own honey, I'd put it back on the bees, >rather > than extract it. We have no sophisticated drying equipment. > >> > >Dave: I'm far from sophisticated myself but, I notice, when I'm >warming up >my honey to make it easy to pass through fine nylon mesh prior to >bottling >that alot of steam rises up. My honey has always done very well at >the fair >based on water to sugar ratio and I've thought that this steam meant >that >some excess water was leaving the honey. You wouldn't want to boil it >for >that might distort the flavor but perhaps keeping it just below simmer >so >that steam rises would help with the excess water. > >P.S. It's always helpful if people put their towns and states >somewhere in >their address. When you report on what is going on I sometimes wonder >"where." I think you once said Myrtle Beach, SC. Is that right? We >are >considering moving to Dataw island, a sea island off Beaufort and I'm >always >interested to see what's going on in that nec of the woods. >Faith Andrews Bedford, Ivy VA and Tampa > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 4 Jun 1997 22:35:07 -0700 Reply-To: dronebee@pilot.infi.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Dr. Pedro Rodriguez" Organization: InfiNet Subject: Mineral Oil for Bee Mites Treatment MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Dear Friends: I suppose that most of you on the list will have received my post describing my work with mineral oil for treatment of bee mites. Please note that I insisted on refering to FOOD GRADE MINERAL OIL. The reason for that is that this type of mineral oil can be used within bee colonies at all times because it does not have flavor or odor and it is non-toxic. I apologize to those of you who are not acquainted with this type of oil. It is medicinal oil and can be found at most convenience type stores (K-marts, Pharmors, Revcos, etc.) Please make sure that you DO NOT use baby oil (which is mineral oil but perfumed and will leave its odor within the colony. They will have it at regular drug stores also, but I suppose at a higher price. I hope that this post answers the question for those whoe were unsure about sources of procurement. I will always welcome any other question(s) that you may have. Best regards. Dr. Rodriguez ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 4 Jun 1997 22:23:39 +0000 Reply-To: jdalexa@widtech.com Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: John Alexander Subject: Re: Mineral oil treatment....immuntiy In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19970604182748.006d9a44@netropolis.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT As I, as new beekeeper see it, we have a means of effectively controlling Varroa mites without the use of pesticide which THEY can develop a resistance to. The mites aren't going to get resistant to being smothered by mineral oil any more than roaches acquire resistance to boric acid slicing them to shreds. Leaving it to the course of nature to develop resistance, I think we would all be pretty well out of beekeeping due to lack of stock. This is a safe, non-poisonous way to give our bees a chance and maybe knock Varroa - an import that doesn't belong here - down to parade rest. I'm buying mineral oil tomorrow!! It's cheap. Apistan is expensive and poisonous. Simple equation. John Alexander Webmaster ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 4 Jun 1997 16:43:22 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Adrian Wenner Subject: "Washboarding" by bees at the entrance Comments: cc: jschmidt@CCIT.ARIZONA.EDU, buchmann@tucson.ars.ag.gov Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Jim Moore replied to the following comment: >>>We have had bees moving back and forth in that pattern and were told >>>that it is a random act called "washboarding." as follows: >As a programmer I always consider that it is some "logic" that is >instictively being "executed" on the bees part. I assume it is young bees >who are supposed to be cleaning cells but due to nectar in the cells or a >hot hive they move outside and execute the behavior anyway. Bees coat all surfaces in a cavity and near the entrance with a thin coat of propolis. In our work on Santa Cruz Island we sometimes spotted the entrance of a colony for which we were searching in a rock face by seeing the round patch of brown coating near the opening, extending a few inches out from the opening. We could see bees engaged in that same behavior on this surface. Justin Schmidt and Steve Buchmann wrote the following on p. 944 in the 1992 issue of THE HIVE AND THE HONEY BEE: "Although not well investigated, its use as a varnish around colony areas of contact with the external environment (Figure 6) probably serves mainly in defense against ants. This is accomplished both by making the surface slippery, thereby enabling the bees to blow off invading ants... and by acting as a surface masking agent... etc." In their Figure 6 they show, (A) "Bees adjacent to a comb actively planing a propolized area," and (B) "...Planing bees adopt a typical head down pose and actively'brush' the surface with their front legs while slowly moving backwards." Adrian Adrian M. Wenner (805) 893-2838 (UCSB office) Ecol., Evol., & Marine Biology (805) 893-8062 (UCSB FAX) Univ. of Calif., Santa Barbara (805) 963-8508 (home office & FAX) Santa Barbara, CA 93106 *********************************************************************** * "Discovery is to see what everyone else has seen, * * but to think what no one else has thought." * * --- Albert Szent-Gyorgyi * *********************************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 4 Jun 1997 17:09:27 +0000 Reply-To: jdalexa@widtech.com Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: John Alexander Subject: BeeChat MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Greetings All, I invite all persons interested in BeeKeeping to check out BeeChat, a Java-based realtime chat program. This free service is designed to give beekeepers a forum for real-time exchange of information and ideas about beekeeping. To utilize BeeChat, you will need the following: - a 32 bit operating system (Win 95, OS/2, Unix, etc) - a Java enabled web browser (Netscape, Internet Explorer) additionally, if you are behind a firewall (AOL users) you probably will not be able to utilize this service. This is a free service and commercial advertising or solicitation is not allowed. To access BeeChat, point your browser at: http://www.widtech.com/beechat/ and click on the SneakerChat icon. Watch bee-l and the BeeChat web page for dates for notable guest speakers. John Alexander Beltsville, MD ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 23:34:42 +0000 Reply-To: jdalexa@widtech.com Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: John Alexander Subject: BeeChat MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Greetings, All beekeeping folk are invited to partake of BeeChat, an on-line real-time java based chat program set up for the benefit of the beekeeping community at large. This service is provided free of charge and is to be used only for non-commercial purposes. To use Beechat you must have the following: - 32 bit operating system (Win 95, OS/2, Unix, etc) - Java enabled web browser (Netscape/Internet Explorer) Additionally, if you are behind a firewall, you probably won't be able to connect. AOL users definitely cannot connect. I hope to have periodic guest speakers on BeeChat. For more information, e-mail beechat@widtech.com John Alexander Beltsville, MD ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 17:58:29 -0700 Reply-To: dronebee@pilot.infi.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Dr. Pedro Rodriguez" Organization: InfiNet Subject: Bee mites treatment MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Dear Friends: I posted a file about my mineral oil treatment to this list last week but I have not seen it posted to the list yet. As promised I have attempted to send individual copies of the file to each of the interested parties who wrote and asked me for it. For unexplained reasons, there were errors in the e-mail address and some of the files were returned to me. Those of you who wish to receive copies of the file, I will gladly mail it again promptly once I receive your request (hence preventing making errors when transcribing the e-mail addresses). I apoligize to those of you who have not received it yet. Please do send me your address again! Best regards. Dr. Rodriguez ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 31 May 1997 15:55:58 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Adrian Wenner Subject: Re: comb orientation Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" We had a few messages posted recently on BEE-L about comb orientation in hives. Personally, I don't take much stock in such reports. In our study of almost 300 feral colonies on Santa Cruz Island, I saw no consistent pattern of comb orientation with respect to geographic north (or to any other direction). Neither did I see any need to gather data on the direction of comb orientation. If such a problem did exist, beekeepers long ago would have learned to position their hives in one compass direction or another to avoid any problem. (I have great faith in the perceptive ability of beekeepers.) I think beekeepers can also safely ignore the question of possible "navigation" of bees between their colonies and food sources by means of the Earth's magnetic field. As we have published, the average distance that bees forage from their colonies is normally only about half a mile (depending on competition from other colonies) --- and then primarily upwind. The amount the Earth's magnetic field changes in that extremely short distance is surely negligible. Yes, bees are wonderful. But while trying to bring in a crop of honey, employing a little skepticism about some extraordinary claims certainly won't hurt. May you all have a good season! Adrian Adrian M. Wenner (805) 893-2838 (UCSB office) Ecol., Evol., & Marine Biology (805) 893-8062 (UCSB FAX) Univ. of Calif., Santa Barbara (805) 963-8508 (home office & FAX) Santa Barbara, CA 93106 *********************************************************************** * "Discovery is to see what everyone else has seen, * * but to think what no one else has thought." * * --- Albert Szent-Gyorgyi * *********************************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 30 May 1997 11:32:06 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Sevigny, Marc" Subject: Safety of Roundup MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I was told that roundup is harmless to biurds, and animals. I extrapolated that thinking and extended it to bees. Last week, I applied Roundup near my hive in an attempt to keep the weeds from blocking the entrance. The following day, I notices that I has several hundred dead and dying bees near the entrance to the hive. Are the fumes from Roundup responsible? I live across thye street from a small orchard, and although I didn't notice any spraying going on, that might have been the cause, but I can't tell for certain. The dying bees were barely alive, on their backs. I assume this is a poisoning. ===================================================== Marc Sevigny E-mail: sevigny@isis.com Isis Distributed Systems Phone: (508) 490-6831 55 Fairbanks Blvd Fax: (508) 481-9274 Marlboro, MA 01752 ===================================================== ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 30 May 1997 11:48:29 -0300 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Doug Yanega Subject: Re: Carpenter Bees Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Let's clear up a little misinformation here first (Sorry, Charley): >The holes that the Carpenter Bee makes in wood is a chamber to raise >their young. They eat into the wood about one inch and then make a >right angle turn and eat for up to 4 or 5 inches. They capture insects, >place them in the hole they have made, lay an egg on the insect and the >when the Carpenter Bee larva hatches it lives on the insect. Carpenter bees feed their larvae on pollen masses, like virtually every other bee in the world. There are NO bees in existence which are predatory. >While one hole might not cause much trouble, several holes can >seriously weaken a timber. Purdue University entomologists say that >the best control is to use an insecticide, Sevin, in a powder form. An alternative is to simply take a household pest spray and a cotton ball, soak the ball, and stuff it into the hole. A lot simpler for the average person than going out and buying a big thing of Sevin. In fact, let me pass along something I recently posted on rec.gardens, for those of you who may need to answer questions about carpenter bees in the future: Stopping carpenter bees is easier done in a preventative sense than acting once they're established. Carpenter bees clearly recognize a place as being a suitable spot to dig a nest by its *texture*. If it feels like wood, and it's soft enough to chew through, then they'll start digging away. The simple way to avoid carpenter bees, then, is to coat the wood with SOMETHING that makes the actual surface of the wood unreachable, such as a latex paint or a thick, glossy varnish. I have yet to hear of a carpenter bee drilling through an unbroken coat of either paint or varnish, which makes perfect sense. They have a brain no bigger than a pinhead, after all, and it takes a very specific stimulus to entice them to dig. Remove the stimulus, and you will not have a problem with carpenter bees. Once they have begun nesting somewhere, you can either stuff pesticide-soaked cotton balls into the holes, or simply wait for the season to end, THEN plug the holes with "false wood" compound, and THEN coat the wood as above. I hope this helps. Sincerely, Doug Yanega Depto. de Biologia Geral, Instituto de Ciencias Biologicas, Univ. Fed. de Minas Gerais, Cx.P. 486, 30.161-970 Belo Horizonte, MG BRAZIL phone: 031-448-1223, fax: 031-44-5481 (from U.S., prefix 011-55) http://www.icb.ufmg.br/~dyanega/ "There are some enterprises in which a careful disorderliness is the true method" - Herman Melville, Moby Dick, Chap. 82 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 30 May 1997 09:29:38 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jack Griffes Subject: Queen Cell "shipment simulation" experiment Comments: To: Timothy Ainge , RICHARD E BONNEY , Dean Breaux , "Dr. Michael Brown" , "Dr. Larry Connor" , Tim Damon , Barry Davies , "Dr. Diane Sammataro" , "Dr. John Harbo" , "Dr. Roger Hoopingarner" , "Dr. Harry H. Laidlaw, Jr." , Ken Morris , "Dr. Marla Spivak" , "Dr. Gard Otis" , "Dr. Medhat Nasr" , Paul Mountoux , Richard Leonard , Kirk Jones , John Hilliard , "Joel W. Govostes" , Josh English , Garrett Dodds , Susan Cobey As stated in an earlier post: My 8 year old son, Jared, and I are doing an experiment currently to see if we have (or have not) correctly determined a way to send queen cells through the United States Postal system with a HIGH degree of emergence upon planting them in nucs/hives upon arrival at their destination. All 50 cells involved were grafted off same AI queen on the same day (14 May). Jared grafted part of the cells. We have a control group consisting of 10 cells of which 8 have been in electric incubator (92-94 degrees Fahrenheit approx 50+% humidity) since day 7 (days counted since grafting) - the other 2 were in a "incubator hive" until day 10 then moved into electric incubator. All cells referred to as the "elec" group were in electric incubator since day 7 (21 May) except during their 24 hour at room temperature phase of the test. All cells referred to as "hive" were in the incubator hive until day 10 and likewise until they recieved their 24 hour at room temp treatment. 10 day means the cells at the 10 day after grafting stage were placed on room temp bookshelf for 24 hours then placed back into electric incubator to test emergence (incubator simulating the cell being planted in a nuc/hive after being shipped via USPS). 11 day means they recieved the 24 hour room temp treatment 11 days after grafting and were then returned to electric incubator. Because we use Chinese grafting tools we are able to graft exceedingly small (young) larvae which accounts for the emergence time of even the control group cells. Incubator hive = marked queen and some brood below excluder - cell bars between brood (two or more frames of brood on each side of cell bar frame) above excluder. We wish we had a full 10 elec and 10 hive in the control group but we ended up needing more cells to make splits leaving but 50 instead of 60 cells left. We hope this will suffice in the control group to give us an accurate indication though we recognize it could have been better. Note control of variables - like all being grafted off same AI queen (helping control for genetic variation), sample size of 10 each per type of incubation used in a group of 20 per "shipment simultation" timing. (emerged to this point/total in group) 27 May 1997 7am 9am 5pm 9:30pm Total - all treatments - 7/50 9/50 12/50 20/50 Control - elec--------------- 1/8 1/8 1/8 3/8 Control - hive---------------- 1/2 1/2 1/2 1/2 10 day - elec---------------- 2/10 2/10 2/10 3/10 10 day - hive---------------- 0/10 1/10 1/10 3/10 11 day - elec---------------- 2/10 3/10 3/10 4/10 11 day - hive---------------- 1/10 1/10 4/10 6/10 28 May 1997 12:20am 7:18am 3pm 3:40pm Total - all treatments--- 24/50 29/50 37/50 38/50 Control - elec-------------- 6/8 6/8 6/8 6/8 Control - hive-------------- 1/2 1/2 2/2 2/2 10 day - elec--------------- 4/10 6/10 9/10 9/10 10 day - hive--------------- 4/10 5/10 5/10 6/10 11 day - elec--------------- 4/10 6/10 6/10 6/10 11 day - hive--------------- 9/10 7/10 9/10 9/10 29 May 1997 28 May 1997 8:22pm 11pm / 6:56am 3:26pm Total - all treatments--- 39/50 39/50 41/50 42/50 Control - elec-------------- 6/8 6/8 6/8 6/8 Control - hive-------------- 2/2 2/2 2/2 2/2 10 day - elec--------------- 9/10 9/10 9/10 9/10 10 day - hive--------------- 7/10 7/10 8/10 9/10 11 day - elec--------------- 6/10 6/10 7/10 7/10 11 day - hive--------------- 9/10 9/10 9/10 9/10 30 May 1997 29 May 1997 6:58pm / 7:04am Total - all treatments--- 42/50 42/50 Control - elec-------------- 6/8 6/8 Control - hive-------------- 2/2 2/2 10 day - elec--------------- 9/10 9/10 10 day - hive--------------- 9/10 9/10 11 day - elec--------------- 7/10 7/10 11 day - hive--------------- 9/10 9/10 I suspect that the remainder of the cells may not emerge though I am certain Jared will continue to check on them today and perhaps tomorrow. Jared is doing this experiment for his Science Fair Project for this coming Fall (side benefit of helping Dad). Obviously if this was done at a University more consistent time intervals for checks would have been implemented. For our purposes however even just one check at the end would have sufficed. Once Jared (8 years old) figures out that the remaining cells are unlikely to emerge I will suggest we open them up and look at them and see if they developed fully or not. I will report on that as well. >From this initial phase of the experiment it appears that sending either 10 or 11 day cells (counted from graft date) "Overnight Mail" for installation within 24 hours from the time we pull them out of incubator (hive or electric) - thus here that means about 2:30pm since our Post Office truck comes at roughly 4pm and missing the pick-up would leave the cells setting there for another 24 hours. The cells should get to most USA Post Offices by the next morning and the beekeeper would need to have made arrangements for his/her Post Office to call and let them know they are in (so they don't get put in the delivery vehicle and toted about). Thus the timing would have to be such that the beekeeper had the ability on arrival date to plant the cells immediately on arrival (or at least put them in a incubator on his/her end to hold them for planting later that day). Next phase (when we have another 50-60 extra cells) will consist of actually shipping without any temperature regulation both 10 & 11 day cells. They will be shipped from a nearby Post Office that is not our own (to insure they actually get put through the system). -- Jack Griffes Country Jack's Honeybee Farm Honeybee Improvement Program Horseshoeing by Jack Griffes Ottawa Lake, MI 49267 USA Web site http://www2.netcom.com/~griffes/ Much thanks to the person much more clever than myself that suggested the following spam defeating method of listing my e-mail address. e-mail: Griffes at ix dot netcom dot com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 5 Jun 1997 15:19:12 GMT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Steve Pearce Organization: Dept of Biochemistry Subject: Re: Carpenter Bees Doug wrote ...on the subject of Carpenter bees >"The holes................They capture insects, place them in the hole they have made, >lay an egg on the insect and when the Carpenter Bee larva hatches it lives on the insect" .......There are NO bees in existence which are predatory. So, do these bees catch and kill insects or not ? (I'm still confused) Steve ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 5 Jun 1997 09:17:57 -0600 Reply-To: allend@internode.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Allen Dick Organization: The Beekeepers Subject: Safety of Roundup MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT I was told that roundup is harmless to biurds, and animals. I extrapolated that thinking and extended it to bees... I haven't been able to decide myself. Many beekeepers use Rounup around their hives -- as did we last year. See: gopher://gopher.igc.apc.org:2998/7PESTIS?Roundup To study other pesticides and herbicides, search at: gopher://gopher.igc.apc.org:2998/7PESTIS These URLs are valid for use with Internet Explorer or Netscape. Just cut and paste them into the address box. Allen ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 5 Jun 1997 09:24:10 -0600 Reply-To: allend@internode.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Allen Dick Organization: The Beekeepers Subject: Mineral Oil for Bee Mites Treatment Comments: cc: dronebee@pilot.infi.net In-Reply-To: <13251588705363@systronix.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT > Please note that I insisted on refering to FOOD GRADE MINERAL OIL. > The reason for that is that this type of mineral oil can be used within > bee colonies at all times because it does not have flavor or odor and > it is non-toxic. I wonder about using the veterinary grade mineral oil that is available in most country farm supply stores for use with cattle. It comes by the gallon and is very cheap? BTW, for the convenience of all, I will put the article in question on my website at http://www.internode.net/HoneyBee/Oil ...as soon as I get around to it -- within an hour or so. Allen ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 5 Jun 1997 12:09:45 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "" Subject: Re: bee genetics book.. Debbie You spoke with me last week. The book is Thomas Rinderer (Editor) Honey Bee Genetics and Breeding. The price is $59.00 plus $2.50 postage (surface book rate). This is half the price charged by Academic Press just a week ago. Your check must be in US dollars. Or I accept Visa and MasterCard. Send your payment to: Wicwas Press PO Box 817 Cheshire CT 06410-0817 Phone, with 24-hr machine, and fax -- 203 250 7575 Over half of the remaining copies were sold due to that posting. Thanks, Larry Connor Wicwas Press LJCONNOR@AOL.COM ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 5 Jun 1997 12:35:48 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jim Arthur Subject: Re: Safety of Roundup Comments: To: Allen Dick In-Reply-To: <15195606105624@systronix.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII I use old carpet, I lay it brown side up. That way I don't have to worry about weeds growing around the hives, and it dosen't look to bad... Jim ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- A bad day fishing beats a good day a work ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- On Thu, 5 Jun 1997, Allen Dick wrote: > I was told that roundup is harmless to biurds, and animals. I > extrapolated that thinking and extended it to bees... > > I haven't been able to decide myself. Many beekeepers use Rounup > around their hives -- as did we last year. > > See: > gopher://gopher.igc.apc.org:2998/7PESTIS?Roundup > > To study other pesticides and herbicides, search at: > gopher://gopher.igc.apc.org:2998/7PESTIS > > These URLs are valid for use with Internet Explorer or Netscape. Just cut > and paste them into the address box. > > Allen > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 5 Jun 1997 15:35:22 CDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Phil Wood Subject: lawn care questions In-Reply-To: ; from "Sevigny, Marc" at May 30, 97 11:32 am Sorry to both folks with another question regarding herbicide use, but I received a very aggressive sales call last night from a lawn care company. In brief, the salesman said: a.) They've targeted my street for "a lot" of lawn treatments at low cost. b.) They put down an herbicide (he thought it was "reliance"). He maintained it had no consequences to humans or animals, maintained he was looking at the sack and that it had no warnings about bees and no warnings about when it should be used. c.) They do their applications from 8:00 a.m. till dusk "So as not to disturb people" d.) They also put down a urea and sulpher compound four times during the season. I was very polite to him, and after getting the above information politely declined. My neighbors are, however, somewhat more "suburban" in their lifestyle preferences. Should I be concerned for my 6 hives of bees? ---other topic--- In order to make good on a prior promise to "summarize for the group" I wanted to report that a hive which failed last year in spite of my providing syrup probably died from lack of pollen. The fact that the bees were looking for a pollen source was confirmed this spring when a bushy crop of some sort of mint grew up right outside the entrance. I can only assume that the bees took in some small mint seed as a possible pollen source and then tossed it out later. [Didn't think they were smart enough to begin their own essential oils therapy ;-) ] Thanks for any responses. Phil wood@psysparc.psyc.missouri.edu ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 5 Jun 1997 16:46:39 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jim Moore Subject: excessive frames of pollen? I have a hive that seems to have alot of pollen frames. Is it ever the case that a hive can be pollen bound? How many frames of pollen is reasonable for 2 deep brood hive? Does it ever make sense to remove frames of pollen and replace with foundation to increase the egg laying space? If so, can these be stored (frozen I would assumes to avoid wax moths) and reused later when making splints or nucs or for winter stores? If the frames are discarded does it just go in the solar wax melter as is? Thanks in advance, Jim Moore ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 5 Jun 1997 23:21:00 GMT Reply-To: Tim_Sterrett@westtown.edu Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Tim Sterrett Organization: Westtown School Subject: Re: Carpenter Bees ...on the subject of Carpenter bees **************** In eastern North America, at least, carpenter bees are a species of solitary bee (no worker bees) which look like bumble bees. They (the female, I'll bet) excavate a 1/2 inch diameter tunnel in wood with the entrance often facing down. While the male (with a white or yellow patch on his forehead) guards a territory in front of the nest, the female lays eggs and provisions the nest with pollen and (I presume) nectar. She is business-like and can be seen entering the nest with pollen on her legs. The male seems to spend all of his time sparring with other males. But the system works for the carpenter bees. The males (white or yellow spot on forehead) cannot sting and are a great prop for entomologists who feel the need to show off. While they are harmless, carpenter bees are persistent and can turn exposed wood into Swiss cheese. Tim Tim Sterrett Westtown, (Southeastern) Pennsylvania, USA tim_sterrett@westtown.edu ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 5 Jun 1997 22:21:04 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Conrad Sigona Subject: Pollen Substitute Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Would one of you have a formula for a pollen substitute (a la Bee-Pro)? I presume it's mostly soy. Conrad Sigona conrad@ntcnet.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 6 Jun 1997 02:16:00 GMT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Andy Nachbaur Organization: WILD BEE'S BBS (209) 826-8107 LOS BANOS, CA Subject: excessive frames of pollen JM>From: Jim Moore >Date: Thu, 5 Jun 1997 16:46:39 EDT >Subject: excessive frames of pollen? JM> I have a hive that seems to have alot of pollen frames. JM> Is it ever the case that a hive can be pollen bound? Hi Jim, Every area is a little different, here we seldom have too much pollen for long. Some hives are said to collect more pollen then others, but as a rule the accumulation of excess pollen donates a slowing down of brood rearing, or poor quality pollen. Brood rearing could be slowing down as the queen is failing to lay high enough numbers of eggs each day to consume all the pollen the bees can collect, or for a dozen other reasons. Poor pollen is common, and for most beekeeping situations any single source pollen is bad news. JM> How many frames of pollen is reasonable for 2 deep brood hive? Very complicated question for the fact is bees can do very well with little or no stored pollen as long as they have enough pollen coming in to rear adequate brood. In collecting pollen most all can be taken off the bees legs and they will still do very well with what may be in their honey bucket or on their body hairs. Bees tend to deposit the pollen close to the entrance and and the cluster in the frames adjacent to the brood. Some beekeepers place shallow supers under the brood chamber, (closer to entrance), and reverse this super in the spring or at other times to get their bees going when pollen is dear. I have never been in a situation of too much pollen for long so I would not do anything about this problem other then moving the pollen combs around to encourage more brood rearing now. Bees can consume a tremendous amount of pollen each season, early work declared the amounts to be equal to what they consume in honey. So if it takes 100 lbs of honey to keep a hive going for a season it would take 100 lbs of pollen. Since then I am sure better figures per bee have been worked out but I don't have them in my old mush bucket to pass on to you. JM> Does it ever make sense to remove frames of pollen and replace with >foundation to increase the egg laying space? It makes more sense to give hives frames of pollen to increase brood rearing, but for sure if you have have too much now you may want to try that "if you also have a honey flow" so the foundation will be drawn out fast. JM> If so, can these be stored (frozen I would assumes to avoid wax >moths) and reused later when making splints or nucs or for winter stores? For sure freezing pollen is a good way to preserve it for later use, but I would check with the wife as freezer space is not always available. JM> If the frames are discarded does it just go in the solar wax melter The more pollen in a comb in a solar melter the less wax you will get from that comb as the pollen will trap it. ttul, the OLd Drone (c) Permission is granted to freely copy this document in any form, or to print for any use. (w)Opinions are not necessarily facts. Use at own risk. --- ~ QMPro 1.53 ~ The fittest will survive yet the unfit may live. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 5 Jun 1997 22:26:50 -0600 Reply-To: allend@internode.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Allen Dick Organization: The Beekeepers Subject: Re: Pollen Substitute In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT > Would one of you have a formula for a pollen substitute (a la Bee-Pro)? > I presume it's mostly soy. We had some discussion here and I had a lot of help. The upshot is that soy and yeast seem to be the major components, with brewers yeast having the advantage of not drying out. Some pollen must be added according to many accounts to make the bees start eating it. I use about 4 pounds per 200 pound batch. I personally also add a lot of bag sugar to thicken the mix and increase the sweetness, since Andy feels that that the sugar content is a major attractant. He prefers HFCS for sweetner and also has a poor opinion of soy. He feels the mix should ferment a bit since bees make bee bread out of pollen rather than eating pollen as it comes in. Anyhow, to make the long story short, I am using a 50# bag of HoneySoy expeller processed soy flour, 1/3 bag(50#) of brewers yeast, enough HFCS at 60% concentration (that's what I happen to have) to make a slurry of the above,and half a bag or so of sugar. We mix it to a thick pancake batter consistency. Overnight, the soy takes up a lot of the moisture, and by the next day, the batcht will be like putt. If not, I add soy a handful at a time until it is right, then plaster it on a sheet of wax paper and fold it over to make patties that we can carry around in a box. When putting the patties on the hive, we slash and tear up the lower wax paper surface so that the bees can get at it. After they get going, they chew out the rest of the paper. NB: The patty must be within several inches (2 or 3) of capped brood to be consumed. We are still feeding supplement although we have had good pollen flows for over a month and have just finished apple blossom bloom. A pound patty lasts a week or so, at best, now that the hives are well into doubles, and many into triples. My son claims that he can see a big difference between the yards that ate their supplement and those that didn't. ( Some yards had gotten a batch that had no pollen early in the season and they refused it). Hope this is useful. Allen ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 5 Jun 1997 22:38:08 -0600 Reply-To: allend@internode.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Allen Dick Organization: The Beekeepers Subject: Re: excessive frames of pollen In-Reply-To: <9706051940311869@beenet.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT > I have a hive that seems to have alot of pollen frames. > Is it ever the case that a hive can be pollen bound? In Alberta, back in the package bee days, many beekeepers had problems with excessive amounts of pollen in their frames, since they gassed the bees in the fall. I have not heard of this problem since people started wintering, but in those days, people sold or swapped the frames for empty ones with beekeepers who were less fortunate in terms of pollen. I never have had that problem, and believe that we are pollen short here, This has lead to my feeding supplements well into the pollen season this year -- with encouraging results. My recommendation is that you move the pollen frames to the outside if they are impeding buildup -- or you may wish to put one into the centre of the cluster occasionally to see if they consume it. Pollen surplus is usually a temporary phenomenon, and by moving the frames to the outside, you ensure that the pollen will be covered with honey and preserved for when the bees need it- when honey and pollen are scarce. In extreme cases, removal of combs is justified, and in that case you will likely find a neighbour who will gladly want to trade you some empty brood combs for them. Allen ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 6 Jun 1997 21:38:59 -0700 Reply-To: leonc@ccinet.ab.ca Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "L.&J. Christensen" Organization: Ikin Enterprises Ltd. Subject: Re: excessive frames of pollen? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jim Moore wrote: > > I have a hive that seems to have alot of pollen frames. > > Is it ever the case that a hive can be pollen bound? I live in an area that is pollen rich. On occasion I have pulled pollen from the hives to leave the queen room to lay. It's a tough call to decide if you need to remove pollen and then how much to remove. I guess for me it boils down to a seat-of-the-pants kind of a decision. You have to guess what the weather is going to do because if you get a few rainy cool days when the bees aren't flying a strong hive with a good queen can use up a pile of pollen in just a short time. The other thing to consider is when the honey flow is going to come on. When the bees get going on necter they seem to back off a little bit on the pollen. We've always just stored the frames in the super storage until we need them (it wouldn't be practical to buy enough freezers to store a couple hundred frames). Although some of the nutritional value may have been lost the frames are still good for putting in nucs. Like Andy said there are a lot of things to look at and assess in your decision. I always do a certain amount of nail-biting when I start considering pulling pollen out, but I haven't had any wrecks from doing it yet(knock on wood). If worse comes to worse you'll just have to put it back. I.M.H.O. Leon ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 6 Jun 1997 21:45:11 -0700 Reply-To: leonc@ccinet.ab.ca Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "L.&J. Christensen" Organization: Ikin Enterprises Ltd. Subject: Re: Safety of Roundup MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jim Arthur wrote: > > I use old carpet, I lay it brown side up. That way I don't have to worry > about weeds growing around the hives, and it dosen't look to bad... Interesting idea Jim. Has any body else tryed this? If so what were your experiences ?(good and bad) I've used rolled roofing and liked it a lot better than stirring up the hives with a weed-eater. Unfortunately I don't have enough to do very many hives. Leon ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 5 Jun 1997 23:09:27 -0700 Reply-To: mwr@hotcity.com Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Michael Reddell Subject: Re: Bees killed by paint fumes? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Albert W Needham wrote: > A couple of years ago I had a large number of swarms, I also noticed > these groups of bees on the landing board that I would also describe > as "washboarding". After the large number of swarms ( which I feel were > mostly due to my allowing a bit of overcrowding to occur), I wondered if > this > behavior was any indication of swarms to come? > > Anyone ever notice any correlation here? Yes. Washboarding seems to happen during periods of inactivity such as when nectar flow has stopped or just before/after a swarm. I've also seen it at other times though. For instance last weekend I saw 2 bees washboarding by the entrance to my observation hive. Honey flow is on and no signs of swarm. Michael Reddell mwr@hotcity.com http://www.hotcity.com/~mwr ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 6 Jun 1997 06:43:43 -0600 Reply-To: Charles Harper Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Charles Harper Subject: Re: excessive frames of pollen? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Thu, 5 Jun 1997 16:46:39 EDT, Jim Moore wrote: > I have a hive that seems to have alot of pollen frames. > > Is it ever the case that a hive can be pollen bound? > > How many frames of pollen is reasonable for 2 deep brood hive? > > Does it ever make sense to remove frames of pollen and replace with >foundation to increase the egg laying space? > > If so, can these be stored (frozen I would assumes to avoid wax >moths) and reused later when making splints or nucs or for winter stores? > > If the frames are discarded does it just go in the solar wax melter >as is? > > Thanks in advance, > > Jim Moore > I would be on the lookout for a bad queen if the brood nest is full of pollen and littlie brood. The frames of pollen can be stored in the freezer for future use. Over 4 frames would be too much i would think.No reasion to melt them down just give them to another hive that is short on pollen. Charles Harper Harper's Honey farm 1000 + Colonies ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 6 Jun 1997 11:52:15 +0000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: OAKES DAVID W Subject: Ants MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Forgive me for asking, I know that the thread of ants in the hive came through not too long ago, I foolishly deleted the info. I need to know what does one spread on the ground that allows them to take it to the nest. Therefore ridding the ant nest. Any help would be appreciated as I have small black ants in the hive. Thanks to all, Dave in Indiana oakes.d@lilly.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 6 Jun 1997 08:11:45 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ingrid Chesnick Subject: Re: Ants MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit try a whole bunch of those poision-laced ant feeding stations ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 6 Jun 1997 09:37:01 +0000 Reply-To: tvf@umich.edu Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "T.V. Fischer" Organization: University of Michigan Subject: Re: Carpenter Bees MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Steve Pearce wrote: > > >"The holes................They capture insects, place them in the hole they have made, > >lay an egg on the insect and when the Carpenter Bee larva hatches it lives on the insect" > .......There are NO bees in existence which are predatory. > > So, do these bees catch and kill insects or not ? > > (I'm still confused) The first sentence is FALSE. The second sentence is TRUE. Let the confusion, as well as this thread, end, since these (or any other) bees DO NOT eat insects. Ted Fischer ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 6 Jun 1997 09:46:18 +0000 Reply-To: tvf@umich.edu Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "T.V. Fischer" Organization: University of Michigan Subject: Re: lawn care questions MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Phil Wood wrote: > > Sorry to both folks with another question regarding herbicide use, but I > received a very aggressive sales call last night from a lawn care > company. In brief, the salesman said: > a.) They've targeted my street for "a lot" of lawn treatments at low > cost. > b.) They put down an herbicide (he thought it was "reliance"). He > maintained it had no consequences to humans or animals, maintained he > was looking at the sack and that it had no warnings about bees and no > warnings about when it should be used. > c.) They do their applications from 8:00 a.m. till dusk "So as not to > disturb people" > d.) They also put down a urea and sulpher compound four times during the > season. > I was very polite to him, and after getting the above information > politely declined. My neighbors are, however, somewhat more "suburban" > in their lifestyle preferences. > Should I be concerned for my 6 hives of bees? I doubt that the herbicide will damage the bees, but it certainly will cut down on the valuable nectar the bees get from lawn "weeds" such as clover and dandelions. My lawn is full of these and I love the flowers, unlike my neighbors's lawns, which are sterile green all summer. Maybe I'm not too popular with them, but I don't care for their lawns either. Ted Fischer Dexter, Michigan USA ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 6 Jun 1997 09:25:20 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Robert E Neely Subject: Re: Whipped Honey Hi Bill: Whipped honey or Spun honey was made with a little butter or margarine whipped in. This made it easier to spred even though it needed refrigeration. I believe Sioux Bee put this on the market I believe. This may not now be on the market. Bob Neely Goose Creek, SC Low Country Beekeeper neely-bee@juno.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 6 Jun 1997 15:36:13 +0100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Vita Vydra Organization: Faculty of Civil Engineering Subject: Chalkbrood treatment? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Can anyone give me an advice how to treat chalkbrood? Chalkrood is in my colonies since Varroa came (ten years) but it has never made any serious troubles till now. Unless Varroa infestation is quite normal,things are much worse today. It is likely due to unpleasant weather in April. Is it true that Formic acid treats chalkrood? Vita ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 5 Jun 1997 19:23:03 -0700 Reply-To: dronebee@pilot.infi.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Dr. Pedro Rodriguez" Organization: InfiNet Subject: mineral oil MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Dear friends: Please bear with me. I keep thinking about different suggestions as new mail arrives regarding the use of mineral oil. This is a term mostly used in the Americas. In Europe (I should have remembered) mineral oil is known as paraffin oil. It is the same thing. In North America, mineral oil approved for sale as veterinary medication should be appropriate. Thanks to those of you who keep providing me with input on this subject and to those of you whom I know will do in the future. As beekeepers, we must stay together in the fight against the terrible plague that bee mites age getting to be. Happy beekeeping. Best regards. Dr. Rodriguez ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 6 Jun 1997 08:51:40 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: J Troyer Organization: Honey Hill Farm Subject: Bee Mystery MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Friends, Another bee mystery to unravel.. Last summer we found a queenless hive-no brood, few bees. Pretty dismal thing. We became busy and forgot to check on it for two to three weeks. We went back, expecting to find a hive of wax moths, and found a thriving colony of bees. Good laying queen, good brood pattern. Since it was so late in the season we doubt that it was a swarm. Any ideas? Thanks, JT ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 6 Jun 1997 10:31:30 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "A.S. Chesnick" Subject: Re: Bee Mystery MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit they probilly had an almost full grown queen cell and a couple drone cells when you check before ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 6 Jun 1997 10:32:05 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "A.S. Chesnick" Subject: Re: Bee Mystery MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit hidden some where in the hive ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 6 Jun 1997 09:38:18 -0500 Reply-To: rick444@htcomp.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Rick Adcock Subject: Re: Ants MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Andro for ants. Rick Adcock Cleburne,Texas ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 6 Jun 1997 10:40:12 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Robert E Neely Subject: Re: Mighty Mites Wiping Out Wild Honeybee Thanks Paul I appreciate your E-Mail to Bee-L on 6/2/97 Bob Neely Goose Creek, SC neely-bee@juno.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 6 Jun 1997 11:43:13 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "HELP" Subject: Re: Chalkbrood treatment? In the next issue of Bee Biz, I shall publish three articles on the use of thymol to treat varroa and chalkbrood. I cannot give all the details at the moment, but anyone who wishes more info, please contact me direct. Matthew J Allan ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 6 Jun 1997 19:06:24 +0100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "luichart.woollens@virgin.net" Organization: Luichart Woollens Subject: Yorkshire Black Bees MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Keith Hall wrote: > > An archeaological excavation of a Viking settlement in York unearthed a skep > dating from the 10th (from memory) Century. In it were quite a number of > bees and bee fragments which had been preserved. Local beekeepers who heard > of this arranged for wing vein measurements to be taken which gives the base > line aganst which to compare our colonies. > > Keith Hall I remember reading about this archeological excavation but did not pay much attention to it at the time. I believe that York started off as a Roman fort and was occupied by the Romans from about A.D. 70 - 400 and then the Danes from 867 to about 1066. I wonder if the Romans brought bees with them from Italy? When the colonists went to America/Australia/New Zealand they took their bees with them. Why not the Romans? If so then the bees found in the excavation would be Italian/Danish/Black crosses! ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 6 Jun 1997 17:35:52 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: David Verville Subject: Re: Bee Mystery MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit J Troyer wrote: > > Friends, > > Another bee mystery to unravel.. Last summer we found a queenless > hive-no brood, few bees. Pretty dismal thing. We became busy and > forgot to check on it for two to three weeks. We went back, expecting > to find a hive of wax moths, and found a thriving colony of bees. Good > laying queen, good brood pattern. Since it was so late in the season we > doubt that it was a swarm. Any ideas? Thanks, JT It has been reported although far fetched, that bees will some times steal an egg from another hive and raise a new queen with it. There was a genral discussion back on the group about such things check out the archives Dave verville ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 6 Jun 1997 15:41:30 -0700 Reply-To: mister-t@clinic.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Bill Truesdell Subject: Re: Safety of Roundup MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Marc Sevigny wrote "Last week, I applied Roundup near my hive in an attempt to keep the weeds from blocking the entrance. The following day, I notices that I has several hundred dead and dying bees near the entrance to the hive." I applied roundup the day I read the post, so was interested to see if I killed any bees. All are fine and I applied it to a group of weeds beside several hives. So something else probably was resposible. Bill Truesdell Bath, ME Are the fumes from Roundup responsible? ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 6 Jun 1997 21:47:44 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Bonnie Pierson Subject: Re: AFB Hello All, A friend asked me to ask the question, "Has any one had any experience detecting AFB with a black light?" Thanks, Bonnie Pierson Bonbee@aol.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 6 Jun 1997 23:02:08 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: John Wolford Subject: INTRODUCING NEW QUEEN MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Bee-L Could someone please give me step by step instructions to introduce a new queen to a colony. John M. Wolford ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 8 Jun 1997 13:49:23 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Peter Barrett Subject: Re: Dark bees from England. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Debbie wrote: > > Hi to ALL! > I was wondering if any-one can tell me about the old English brown bee? > Around 1834 my GGGrandfather came from England and as far as I know > Debbie from CanadaAccording to Ruttner in his 1990 book 'The Dark European bee' the old English bee still survives in the North Island of New Zealand. My research reveals that these dark bees were first introduced there from Yorkshire in 1839 by the sister of a missionary named Miss Bumby and later in 1842 by Mr Busby (I do not joke) who brought them across from Australia. Testing has confirmed that these are a pure strain and match the original stock found back in England. Peter Barrett from downunder. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 6 Jun 1997 21:24:44 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: margaret maringgele Subject: Re: Mineral Oil for Bee Mites Treatment Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Fellow Beekeepers, Please accept my apologies, but I must have missed a posting about mineral oil. My question concerns the application of the oil. That is, how, where, when and what quantity of oil is used? Thankyou for your help. Hubert Courtenay, British Columbia ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 7 Jun 1997 20:40:17 -0700 Reply-To: leonc@ccinet.ab.ca Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "L.&J. Christensen" Organization: Ikin Enterprises Ltd. Subject: Re: AFB MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Bonnie Pierson wrote: > > Hello All, > > A friend asked me to ask the question, "Has any one had any experience > detecting AFB with a black light?" We tried it and didn't have much luck.We found good lighting was the best, with sunlight being the best. Maybe we wern't doing something right though. Leon ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 7 Jun 1997 02:53:27 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Midnite Bee Subject: Re: Safety of Roundup& pesticides MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit www.cybertours.com/~midnitebee Greetings! There is a listing of herbicides and pesticides at my web site. Go to "Beelinks" and you will find an article entitled "Honey Bees & Pesticides". This article should help beekeepers and other folks that are concerned about using pesticides. Herb(Midnitebee) ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 7 Jun 1997 05:41:59 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Trevor Weatherhead Subject: Re: Washboarding by bees In Australia, this is often referred to as "Rothenbuhler syndrome". It is said that these are resistant but I am not sure what to. I am unaware of any tests that have been carried out. I often wonder if this phenomen was associated with Rohenbuhler's AFB resistant bees. Does anyone know? I have had hives do this but only one or two in an apiary. I have a photo somewhere of bees washboarding up the front of a hive. Trevor Weatherhead AUSTRALIA ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 7 Jun 1997 04:55:16 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Bill Fernihough Subject: Re: INTRODUCING NEW QUEEN In-Reply-To: <19970607031619593.AAA206@default> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" John, it might depend on what you have the queen in, but assuming you have her in a proper queen cage, here goes. First, make sure there is no queen in the hive now, otherwise the new one will be killed very soon. If you think there is a failing queen, or laying worker, you have to get rid of that issue. To do this, take your hive boxes, one by one about 100 feet from the hive, and shake all, and I mean all the bees out on the ground. Then take the empty boxes with the frames, back to the original position. The regular workers will get back safely, the old queen or laying worker probably won't. In fact, I've great success with this approach by just going 30 feet away. OK, that done, or being declared unnecessary, move some of the frames apart in about the center of the hive, so that you can place the queen cage in there, with the screen part accessible to the bees. I've heard it said the screen should point downward, but before I heard that, I point it upwards, no ill effects. The bees will then get used to the new queen and her odor, and at the same time, will be chewing out the candy that should be in one end of he queen cage. In about two days the candy will be gone, and the queen out of the cage. Wait about 4 days from date of introduction, go into the hive, remove the queen cage, replace the frames, and don't do anything else. In about a week, look to see if there are fresh eggs and larvae. If so all is well with the new queen. If not try again. > > ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 7 Jun 1997 09:33:19 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Brett D Bannon Subject: What should I have done? I need some Advice! Have Hive that swarmed, and after swarm left for who knows where I decided to split the double bodies with the hopes of getting two hives. Upon splitting I realized that most of the queen cells were between the two bodies and seemed to be destroyed upon splitting. I went ahead with the split and waited 23 days before I had a chance of looking into how this process had worked. Today May 6, I have no queens, if all the open cells showing no brood and no eggs is an indication, lots of honey and pollen. Question? What could I have done to help make this double body split work better (not destroy the queen cells between bodies). Question? If I add to each queenless split one frame from another hive will this be enough to help them raise a queen from a newly laid egg? Thanks in advance. Brett D. Bannon bbannon@juno.com Ranching with bees in NE New Mexico ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 7 Jun 1997 08:26:49 -0600 Reply-To: allend@internode.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Allen Dick Organization: The Beekeepers Subject: Re: INTRODUCING NEW QUEEN In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19970607045516.006a90f0@istar.ca> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT > To do this, take your hive boxes, one by one about 100 feet > from the hive, and shake all, and I mean all the bees out on the ground. > Then take the empty boxes with the frames, back to the original position. > The regular workers will get back safely... Good and standard advice, however this is only true if the bees have been flying freely. If they have been confined by weather for several days, they will not know their way home and may either remain as a clump or randomly enter any hives they can find. > I've heard it said the screen should point downward, but before I heard > that, I point it upwards, no ill effects... Either way can have problems. Although the downwards orientation is better in some ways, dead attendants can block the hole and keep the queen in. We prefer to lay the cage on top of and *across* the top bars (so the bees can contact the new queen) with a sack or a sheet of plastic under the lid to make a seal. As long as this space is in the cluster it is trouble free. > In> about a week, look to see if there are fresh eggs and larvae. If so all is > well with the new queen. If not try again. We never (almost) try a second time to introduce a new queen. Here's why: by the time they have been discovered queenless and the requeening attempt has failed, the bees are so old that introduction is tricky, and the second queen is likely wasted. In such a case, we combine the hive with another, and make a split later. Allen ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 7 Jun 1997 15:25:49 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Vince Coppola Subject: Re: Bee Mystery MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit J Troyer wrote: > > Friends, > > Another bee mystery to unravel.. Last summer we found a queenless > hive-no brood, few bees. Pretty dismal thing. We became busy and > forgot to check on it for two to three weeks. We went back, expecting > to find a hive of wax moths, and found a thriving colony of bees. Good > laying queen, good brood pattern. Since it was so late in the season we > doubt that it was a swarm. Any ideas? Thanks, JT Since you had no brood at the time of the first visit, the increase in population must have come from another colony, a swarm. Two to three weeks is not enough time for the weak colony to raise a queen (about 27 days to egg laying) and rear more bees. Even if a new, mated, queen was was is the hive at your 1st visit, it would be 21 days till the first new bees emerged. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 7 Jun 1997 09:53:15 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Robert A. Roach" Subject: Re: Roundup Toxicity MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Glyphosate, the active ingredient of Roundup, is relatively nontoxic to = bees. The oral and dermal LD50 is greater than 0.1 mg/bee. Check out = its toxicology information on Etoxnet at = http://ace.orst.edu/cgi-bin/mfs/01/pips/glyphos.p54. Herbicide products formulated with glyphosate also contain adjuvants to = make the spray spread out and stick to the leaves of the target plant. = Some of these are surfactants, which act like detergent. What happens = when you spray a detergent solution on bees? They die. I would guess = that any bees directly sprayed with Roundup might die because of the = surfactants. Once the spray is dry it would present no further hazard. = I would look for another cause for your loss. Are there plants = attractive to bees in the neighboring orchard? Have they sprayed the = orchard lately? Is carbaryl being used now to thin apples in your area? Bob Roach ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 7 Jun 1997 20:14:13 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ian Watson Subject: disappearing bees... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi all This being swarm season, I got a call that my bees, strangely enough, had swarmed. Fancy that...;) I found a rather small swarm on a small tree about 20 feet from the colonies, and a very large one about 40 feet away, 20 feet up in an old pear tree. Since I only had one empty hive with me, I hived the small one and then roughly split the large one between the small swarm and another swarm that I had picked up last week. Now when I was out at the Beeyard this afternoon to feed them, I noticed that the hive with the small swarm and part of the larger swarm seemed to have only the small swarm in it, or even less. There are only enough bees to not quite cover two frames. My brother Robert found the queen, so that's one good thing. Now, the question is this: Where did all those extra bees go that I dumped in front of the hive?...I saw them all march in, so I know they were there at one time. It's a mystery to me... Any comments would be appreciated Ian Watson ian@gardener.com St. Catharines, Canada (near Niagara Falls) real estate agent gardener homebrewer baritone beekeeper---> 7 colonies, 3 nucs on order ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 7 Jun 1997 21:07:27 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Albert W Needham Subject: Re: disappearing bees... >Now, the question is this: Where did all those extra bees go that I dumped in >front of the hive?...I saw them all march in, so I know they were there at >one time. >It's a mystery to me... Ian: Those that you saw all marching in, obviously didn't care for the accomodations, and they all marched out for elsewheres. :-) They found your Three Star Rating misleading! Al, Offering 'Unique' Honey Bee Artwork On Caps, ------- T-Shirts, Tank Tops & Sweatshirts -------- -------------Honey Bees & Doktor Finkle------------- ------ http://www.xensei.com/users/alwine ------ awneedham@juno.com.............Scituate,MA,USA ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 7 Jun 1997 21:14:47 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Albert W Needham Subject: Re: disappearing bees... Ian: Addendum to below: Perhaps the other half of the big swarm that you put elsewhere had their queen in it and so they went where they belonged. You actually had two queens in one hive and one in the other (the small swarm). The real question is what happened in the hive with the two queens? Remember you said you took half of the large swarm and mixed it in with another swarm? ........................... Those that you saw all marching in, obviously didn't care for the accomodations, and they all marched out for elsewheres. :-) They found your Three Star Rating misleading! Al, On Sat, 7 Jun 1997 20:14:13 -0400 Ian Watson writes: >Hi all > >This being swarm season, I got a call that my bees, strangely enough, >had >swarmed. Fancy that...;) >I found a rather small swarm on a small tree about 20 feet from the >colonies, and a very large one about 40 feet away, 20 feet up in an >old >pear tree. Since I only had one empty hive with me, I hived the small >one >and then roughly split the large one between the small swarm and >another >swarm that I had picked up last week. Now when I was out at the >Beeyard >this afternoon to feed them, I noticed that the hive with the small >swarm >and part of the larger swarm seemed to have only the small swarm in >it, or >even less. There are only enough bees to not quite cover two frames. >My >brother Robert found the queen, so that's one good thing. Now, the >question is this: Where did all those extra bees go that I dumped in >front >of the hive?...I saw them all march in, so I know they were there at >one >time. >It's a mystery to me... > >Any comments would be appreciated > >Ian Watson ian@gardener.com >St. Catharines, Canada (near Niagara Falls) >real estate agent gardener homebrewer baritone >beekeeper---> 7 colonies, 3 nucs on order > ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 7 Jun 1997 23:07:58 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Frank & Phronsie Humphrey Subject: Re: Washboarding by bees MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ---------- > From: Trevor Weatherhead > To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU > Subject: Re: Washboarding by bees > Date: Saturday, June 07, 1997 5:41 AM > > In Australia, this is often referred to as "Rothenbuhler syndrome". It is > said that these are resistant but I am not sure what to. I am unaware of any > tests that have been carried out. > > I often wonder if this phenomen was associated with Rohenbuhler's AFB > resistant bees. Does anyone know? > > I have had hives do this but only one or two in an apiary. I have a photo > somewhere of bees washboarding up the front of a hive. > > Trevor Weatherhead > AUSTRALIA I think you will find a very good explanation of washboarding in the Hive and Honey Bee. It is primarily a behavior that is performed when there is little or no nectar coming in. With no nectar being evaporated, the hive becomes harder to cool and the idle bees move outside where it is cooler. This in turn allows better air flow because there is less congestion in the hive. We have been having 75 to 80 degree temps here in Southeast Tennessee USA.. We also have been having a lot of rain. On days when the rain has recently stopped, my bees have been washboarding. As soon as things dry out and nectar begins to flow, the washboarding stops and very few bees are observed at the hive entrance except those arriving or leaving. I can always tell that the flow is slowing down in July, because the start washbording. When the flow stops, the landing board will be covered with bees and others will be hanging from the landing board in clusters. I have also observed this behavior in newly started colonies that have a large number of young bees but do not yet have large enough field force to keep them busy. Frank Humphrey beekeepr@cdc.net