========================================================================= Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 21:20:12 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Adony Melathopoulos Subject: Re: varroa selection for workers In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19970621170229.006d5f6c@netropolis.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Dusty : On Sat, 21 Jun 1997, Dusty Rhodes wrote: > I believe you would eliminate the mites which preffered drone cells which > means you would breed mites which preffer workers. Very interesting idea. I have not heard it before. I think it would be possible to select for Varroa that prefer workers over drones if there is heridible variability among mites in the cell preference (I mean, are there some lines of Varroa that display a preference for worker over drone cells). There is no evidence of such variability, but I don't know that anyone has looked. Anyways I have a guess that if one inadvertantly selected for lines of that preferred worker brood to drone brood, that might not be bad thing. It may be bad, but consider the following. Varroa might only grow to epidemic levels in a colony because they are able to amplify themselves in the spring among drone brood (when they infest drone brood they can make a lot more babies than if they infested worker brood). Perhaps a pure line of Varroa that infests only worker cells would never take off. I realize the situation is more complicated, and my guesses are likely wild ones, but who knows eh ? *********************************** ** Adony P. Melathopoulos ********* *** Center for Pest Management **** **** Simon Fraser University ****** ***** Burnaby, British Columbia *** ****** Canada, V5A-1S6 ************ *********************************** Tel : (604) 291-4163 Fax : (604) 291-3496 e-mail : melathop@sfu.ca "The pursuit of agriculture promotes the strength of the mind as well as the body" - Rev. John L. Blake, 1853 ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 22 Jun 1997 01:16:29 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: James R Shaver Subject: Re: New York Beekeepers Comments: To: jtemp@xs4all.nl In Manhattan, he will have better luck finding experts on cockroaches as well as their subjects. Jim Shaver, Los Angeles On Mon, 16 Jun 1997 22:59:12 +0200 Jan Tempelman writes: >One of my Rotterdam beekeeping friends will be visiting New York >(Manhatten) in July > >Is there anyone who he can contact out there?? > >Nice to see the bees on the Empire State building? > >Bees in Cental park? > >Shops with beekeeping equipment?? > >Association of beekeepers?? >-- >Jan Tempelman / Ineke Drabbe | EMAIL:jtemp@xs4all.nl >Sterremos 16 3069 AS Rotterdam, The Netherlands >Tel/Fax (SOMETIMES) XX 31 (0)10-4569412 >homepage webside: http://www.xs4all.nl/~jtemp/index2.html >with some pages in english on solitary bees. >NEW PAGES ON THE FIGHT ON THE VARROA MITES. >http://www.xs4all.nl/~jtemp/dronemethod.html > ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 22:34:36 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Paul Cronshaw, D.C." Subject: Re: Bee removal Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Frank, Thanks for posting this message. I too am in the process of removing bees from trees and buildings ( working on 5 projects). I previously used 6 5/8 queen right supers to remove the bees then combine them with a weaker hive. Now I use 5 frame cardboard nucs from Mann Lake or Mel Disselkoen Apiaries with one frame of brood and a queen. These nucs have one advantage, they weigh less than a wooden 10 frame brood chambe. Ever try bringing a full brood chamber down a ladder that has been left for 6 weeks on a bee removal job located 15 feet up the side of a building? HEAVY on the back!! These bee removal nucs build up fast with two laying queens. At times I have to swap them out with another queen right nuc to finish the job. Couple of questions come to mind: 1. What about trees or dwelling openings that are quite large (over 6" diameter)? It would appear that putting some wire mesh over the large opening, tacking down the edges first, then cutting the exact diameter hole in the wire mesh to fit the plastic tubing would be the best thing to do. 2. Is the clear plastic tubing flexible or rigid? 3. I have not tried the foam sealer? Is it toxic to bees? 4. Is is necessary to put the end of the tubing inside the entrance of the bait hive? I am interested if there are other methods of designing bee removal cones besides using wire mesh. Paul Cronshaw DC Cyberchiro and Hobby Beekeeper Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 11:38:12 -0400 From: Frank & Phronsie Humphrey Subject: Bee removal I am at present removing several colonies from buildings by trapping with screen cone method. Every time I do this, it is always a hassle to get the cone just right and then sealing around it. Today I tried something new. I purchased several sizes of clear plastic tubing. I reduced the opening to one small entrance of about 1 1/2 " X 3/4". I then placed a 3" section of 3/4" tubing and sealed it in place with "Great Stuff" foam sealer. I then sealed up all remaining openings that the bees found. I then put a short section of 5/8" tubing in the 3/4" and 3/8" into the 5/8". The 3/8" tubing is about 8" long and the other end was placed just inside the entrance of a NUC in front of the original entrance. For about 30 minutes the bees were frantic to get back in but couldn't find an entrance to their old nest. Finally a few found the NUC and started scenting. After 45 minutes, most bees were entering the new hive with returning field bees searching for a short time and then they too entered. It took about 30 minutes for the bees to start exiting via the tubing. However once started they came out in a steady stream. If this continues to work as well as it started, I will never again use screening. Frank Humphrey beekeepr@cdc.net ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 22 Jun 1997 07:21:37 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Kirk Jones Subject: HELP...Bee Beard Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hi, I wrote earlier about our St. Ambrose Summer Celebration and want to thank all of those who shared information about St Ambrose. I've got my husband talked into doing a bee beard that day. Is there anyone out there who has actual experience with the best way to perform this feat. We could use some tips. Happy Summer Soltice everyone! Sharon *Kirk Jones/ Sleeping Bear Apiaries /971 S. Pioneer Rd./Beulah,MI 49617 *Sharon Jones/ BeeDazzled Candleworks /6289 River Rd./ Benzonia, MI 49616 e-mail b-man@aliens.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 22 Jun 1997 06:51:54 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Paul Basehore Subject: Re: mineral oil. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 03:29 PM 6/20/97 -0400, you wrote: >And for anybody's information---- this place is to learn and to teach >and not get your butt chewed out!!! > > billy bee Valley Lee Maryland U S A > AMEN!!!!!!! ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 22 Jun 1997 10:14:17 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Frank & Phronsie Humphrey Subject: Re: Bee removal MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Frank & Phronsie Humphrey beekeepr@cdc.net ---------- > From: Paul Cronshaw, D.C. > To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU > Subject: Re: Bee removal > Date: Sunday, June 22, 1997 1:34 AM > snip > These bee removal nucs build up fast with two laying queens. At times I > have to swap them out with another queen right nuc to finish the job. > > Couple of questions come to mind: > > 1. What about trees or dwelling openings that are quite large (over 6" > diameter)? > I would think that you could drill a 1" hole in a piece of plywood and nail it over the opening then seal the edges with foam. > It would appear that putting some wire mesh over the large opening, tacking > down the edges first, then cutting the exact diameter hole in the wire mesh > to fit the plastic tubing would be the best thing to do. I'm not using any wire mesh at all. I insert the tubing only part way through the opening and seal around it. This is where the foam is really required. You need to get enough on the outside to hold the tubing in place. It is very sticky straight from the can, becomes simi rigid, and starts to harden in about 15 to 20 minutes. > > 2. Is the clear plastic tubing flexible or rigid? Flexible. I bought mine at Abe Shavin Hardware for $.87 per foot for the small sizes and $1.00 for the largest. > > 3. I have not tried the foam sealer? Is it toxic to bees? To be Honest with you, I haven't checked. However the only bees that I have seen die when using it, are those that get tangled in it while it is still uncured and sticky. once the surface cures enough to lose the stickiness. they walk around on it with impunity. > > 4. Is is necessary to put the end of the tubing inside the entrance of the > bait hive? I don't know that is. I have always felt that the young bees that have never seen the outside, would orient to the bait hive instead of hunting the old entrance. > > I am interested if there are other methods of designing bee removal cones > besides using wire mesh. > > Paul Cronshaw DC > Cyberchiro and Hobby Beekeeper > > ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 22 Jun 1997 09:21:53 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: adony melathopoulos Subject: Re: HELP...Bee Beard Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I helped set bee beard's up before. They are pretty easy to do. Go into a colony, find the queen, and put her to the side. Next shake about 1-2lbs. of bees into a package and leave them in a cool shaded spot for 12-24 h. When your ready to form the bee beard you will either need a queen in a cage or some of the queen's mandibular pheromone. Tie either around the neck of the person to be bearded. The person's ears and nostrils should be plugged with cotton to avoid bees crawlsing in either of those holes. Next, lightly rub insect repellent around the eye and mouth areas. If the person has a lot of hair on their head, it should be tied up and put into a hat. When everything has been prepared, bring the package over, shake the bees gently onto some cardboard. Hold the cardboard right up near the person's neck, and the bees will begin running towards the queen. You can tilt the cardboard to get the bees onto the neck and face quicker, but done push things too much. Once all the bees are of you should have something that looks like a beard (mine looked like a messy goh-tee). I can't quite remember how to get the bees off. Perhaps the queen (we used pheromone) is taken off first, and then person with the beard stands over a box and takes a great big hard jump up and down in the air. Most of the bees will drop off the beard and into the box. Jump backwards for 10-15 meters until most of the bees are off. Put the bees back in the colony they came from. If you are going to do this for a big event go through a dry run. Make sure everyone knows what to do well ahead of time. Don't forget to take pictures and enjoy the feat. At 07:21 AM 6/22/97 -0400, you wrote: >Hi, I wrote earlier about our St. Ambrose Summer Celebration and want to >thank all of those who shared information about St Ambrose. I've got my >husband talked into doing a bee beard that day. Is there anyone out there >who has actual experience with the best way to perform this feat. We could >use some tips. Happy Summer Soltice everyone! Sharon > >*Kirk Jones/ Sleeping Bear Apiaries /971 S. Pioneer Rd./Beulah,MI 49617 >*Sharon Jones/ BeeDazzled Candleworks /6289 River Rd./ Benzonia, MI 49616 > e-mail b-man@aliens.com > > *********************************** ** Adony P. Melathopoulos ********* *** Center for Pest Management **** **** Simon Fraser University ****** ***** Burnaby, British Columbia *** ****** Canada, V5A-1S6 ************ *********************************** Tel : (604) 291-4163 Fax : (604) 291-3496 e-mail : melathop@sfu.ca "The pursuit of agriculture promotes the strength of the mind as well as the body" - Rev. John L. Blake, 1853 ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 22 Jun 1997 09:48:12 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Conrad Berube Subject: Bee removal Comments: To: beekeepr@cdc.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hi Frank, >It took about 30 minutes for the bees to start exiting via the tubing. >However once started they came out in a steady stream. If this continues >to work as well as it started, I will never again use screening. I've used screen in the past to funnel bees and wasps out of nests or into traps and would offer a caveat. The idea of using screening is that the screen funnel is permeable to nest odors at all points. Thus the tip of the funnel is no more attractive than any other point of the funnel (and probably less so than the areas closer to the original nest opening). Bees find their way out but not back in. With tubing it seems that you might risk the possibility that bees would just start using the tubing as an exit and ENTRANCE back into their old nest. Might be advisable to rig up something using both tubing and screen to prevent bees from finding their way back into the tree/building from which you are trying to exclude them. I've also considered using Great Stuff to assist in sealing large areas but was afraid that the fumes of the curing foam would kill bees, did you notice this happening at all, Frank? - Conrad Berube " ` ISLAND CROP MANAGEMENT " ` 613 Hecate St. _- -_`-_|'\ /` Nanaimo, B.C. _/ / / -' `~()() V9R 4K4 \_\ _ /\-._/\/ (250)754-2482; fax (250)656-8922 / | | email: uc779@freenet.victoria.bc.ca '` ^ ^ website: http://pinc.com/~bwarner/ ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 22 Jun 1997 15:14:07 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Dave from Scranton Subject: Re: drone trapping a la Debbie Comments: To: Jan Tempelman In-Reply-To: <33A80ED9.36CF@xs4all.nl> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Wed, 18 Jun 1997, Jan Tempelman wrote: > > eat them (the drone pulpa) they are delicious > I'am serious!! Then wear an Apistan stip around your neck to keep from getting your own Varroa infestation...8-} ****************************************************************************** Dave D. Cawley, Maitre d' | The Internet Cafe | Scranton, Pennsylvania | (717) 344-1969 | dave@scranton.com | ****************************************************************************** URL => http://www.scranton.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 22 Jun 1997 15:15:36 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Dave from Scranton Subject: Re: honey prices In-Reply-To: <33A8149E.5B03@together.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Wed, 18 Jun 1997, Richard Drutchas wrote: > demand. Its hard for me to understand why Dutch Gold and all the big > packers cant keep the price up to where it should be. They must realize > we are thier bread and honey. You're not their bread and honey, getting *YOU* to take a lower price is their bread and honey... ****************************************************************************** Dave D. Cawley, Maitre d' | The Internet Cafe | Scranton, Pennsylvania | (717) 344-1969 | dave@scranton.com | ****************************************************************************** URL => http://www.scranton.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 22 Jun 1997 15:32:20 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Dave from Scranton Subject: Mites with Webbed Feet In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII In all the reading I've done about Varroa, it seems there's way too much brother-sister action going on to make them last very long as a species. Am I nuts or do they mate outside the primary cells that they come from in order to infuse some new genes into the next generation? ****************************************************************************** Dave D. Cawley, Maitre d' | The Internet Cafe | Scranton, Pennsylvania | (717) 344-1969 | dave@scranton.com | ****************************************************************************** URL => http://www.scranton.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 22 Jun 1997 15:52:12 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Dave from Scranton Subject: Bursting Packages, sort of MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII In the first week of May I put in two packages, one Starline and one Midnite. The Starlines have been doing the best, in almost two months they have filled two deeps and a shallow with brood and honey. Just two weeks ago I gave the Starlines a super that they had to clean out cos it was full of dead bees from last year that had starved. I actually had the shallow super on top of the second deep, but they ignored it for a week and started to draw out the second deep, so I swapped them and they cleaned it out and filled it with honey and had the 7 frames of the deep on top of it filled (there was a feeder inside taking up space). So I just replaced the feeder with 3 frames of foundation and added two shallows. Is there a possibility of them swaring this quickly, after only 7 weeks? I didn't get down inside the bottom deep to see if they had any swarm cells. But I'm just wondering. I figure they will need all that honey when the flows stop later in the summer. The midnites on the other hand have been much slower on the take up. They started with two deeps as well. They only took one feeder worth of sugar syrup where the Starlines took *three* feeders of syrup. At the same time I swapped the supers on the Starlines, I did they same with the Midnites. The Midnights have cleaned up and have mostly repaired a super that had waxworm damage and are just starting to think of the deep on top of that. I gave them a shallow super and replaced their feeder with three frames of foundation, not that they needed it, but I was there. ****************************************************************************** Dave D. Cawley, Maitre d' | The Internet Cafe | Scranton, Pennsylvania | (717) 344-1969 | dave@scranton.com | ****************************************************************************** URL => http://www.scranton.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 22 Jun 1997 21:26:00 GMT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Andy Nachbaur Organization: WILD BEE'S BBS (209) 826-8107 LOS BANOS, CA Subject: PLAGIARISM in USDA Bee Research FYI* from a post to the sci.agriculture.beekeeping news group. PLAGIARISM or What? ___ ____ ___ _ _ ___ ___ _ _ / _ \| _ \_ _| \ | |_ _/ _ \| \ | | | | | | |_) | || \| || | | | | \| | | |_| | __/| || |\ || | |_| | |\ | \___/|_| |___|_| \_|___\___/|_| \_| Check this out to get an idea of what I am saying: http://www.ars.usda.gov/is/pr/beecells0597.htm or if you support PDF reading then try: http://www.ars.usda.gov/is/AR/archive/may97/honey.pdf In my humble opinion, IMHO... If you go to this site you will find some very interesting information on cell size and how it can and does effect the health of your honeybees. This is good information and has been a long time in coming, but.. The information in this news release attributed to Dr. Erickson, the leader of the Tucson, Arizona ARS Bee Lab, and based on work done by him and/or others at his lab. This information is now being picked up by the farm press and news services and spread as the GOSPEL according to the best of USDA Bee Research (BS) science. Nothing wrong with this or the information except for one little small detail. The information contained is not the work product of, or the original idea of anyone connected to the USDA, ARS, or USDA Beekeeping Research. You would never know it by reading the information on this page or the so called NEWS stories now making the rounds in the agricultural press based on the USDA ARS News releases about Dr. Erickson and his work at the Bee Lab in Tucson. Copying or using someone else's idea's and work is a violation of federal and world copyright laws and is a crime. This includes the duplication of the ideas and work of others no matter what their personal station in life. We all know that we beekeepers are not in the same class as some of our public servants, such as the so called Beekeeping Scientist (BS). I am sure that this USDA Research branch of ARS will defend themselves by saying we did not write the PRESS release or some such lamer excuse, but this won't wash as they do control the information in their own press releases and web pages and the facts are they did not even share the credit for the information contained in the press release or on their web pages and that is clear to the public or anyone who wants to read or visit them and/or read this official government information. You can be sure if this was information from the chemical industry they would have been sure to have shared the credit..but then we all know the close connection of the chemical industry to the so called bee research industry in the ARS. Who cares anyway?, well I am sure the beekeeper's involved who have spent several generations working in their bees and first noticed and brought it to the attention of those in the Beekeeping Industry and Beekeeping Research at the USDA that the cell size of our foundation is too large, and have themselves been using smaller sized foundations for years, (something that could be adjusted by the foundation manufactures in a few weeks), do care, if only because so many in both the beekeeping industry and beekeeping research have turned a deaf ear to their ideas and cries for help in the past only now to read that the USDA Bee Research under Dr. Erickson have discovered what they have known, worked with, written about and talked about for years...thats the work of those who PLAGIARIZE or steal from the writing and work of others, IMHO..how easy it would have been to say because of work and ideas from such and such beekeepers in our area we have been able to duplicate and replicate work that they are doing or have done in the past and found out using the best scientific mythology that they were right all along, Thank You, Mr. and Mrs. Beekeeper. On a cold day in Hell, maybe....! ttul, the OLd Drone (c) Permission is granted to freely copy this document in any form, or to print for any use. (w)Opinions are not necessarily facts. Use at own risk. --- ~ QMPro 1.53 ~ ... The summer comes with flower and bee,-- ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 22 Jun 1997 19:23:43 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Ralph W. Harrison" Subject: Bee Removal For removing bees from a large opening (tree). I use a piece of plywood slightly wider than the base of the screen cone that I am using and a little longer than the length of the tree opening. I mount this over the opening and then use a truck tire tube cut to size to cover the openings on either side of the plywood. I have never had any luck using the plastic tubing as the bees kept finding the way back in after a couple of weeks, even with the small 3/8" tubing. Ralph Harrison Western CT Beekeepers Asociation ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 22 Jun 1997 19:39:53 -0400 Reply-To: dronebee@norfolk.infi.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "\\Dr. Pedro P. Rodrifuez" Organization: Independent non-profit research Subject: Re: Mites with Webbed Feet/Dave D. Cawley MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Dave from Scranton wrote: > In all the reading I've done about Varroa, it seems there's > way > too much brother-sister action going on to make them last very long as > > a > species. Am I nuts or do they mate outside the primary cells that they > > come from in order to infuse some new genes into the next generation? > > ********************************************************************* > ******** > Dave D. Cawley, Maitre d' | > The Internet Cafe | > Scranton, Pennsylvania | > (717) 344-1969 | > dave@scranton.com | > > *************************** > ************************************************** > URL => http://www.scranton.com Dear Dave: How are you doing today? Well I hope and perhaps somewhat cooler ( up in the lovely mountain area of Penna.) than what we have here in VA. Even the bees are "panting." I thought that I would write a sentence or two relative to your comment about bee mites. It is precisely their ability to survive that caught my attention 13 years ago. Bee mites have been documented to exist close to a hundred years in Asia. Recent reports from Europe indicate that mites have developed resistance to chemical (pesticides) treatments. That's only possible through changes in their genes. So, yes, bee mites seem to have arrived at the stage of insurance of their longevity unless humanity throws in a "monkey wrench" into their reproductive machinery. Best regards. Dr. Rodriguez ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 22 Jun 1997 20:45:49 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: adony melathopoulos Subject: Re: Resistant Webbed-footed Varroa monsters Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Dave : I was hoping to learn something about mites with webbed feet, but alas... At 03:32 PM 6/22/97 -0500, you wrote: > In all the reading I've done about Varroa, it seems there's way >too much brother-sister action going on to make them last very long as a >species. Am I nuts or do they mate outside the primary cells that they >come from in order to infuse some new genes into the next generation? Two points : 1. I don't know if anyone knows how much inbreeding occurs in Varroa populations. Of course when a cell is infested by only one mother, her daughter's only opportunity to mate occurs with their brother. However, when Varroa populations grow, multiple infestation occurs, and outbreeding likely occurs (there are a couple of recent good papers on Varroa mating, but I skimmed them abou a month ago and would have to look back at them for details). 2. Among parasites it is not uncommon to have extremely inbred species (think tapeworm - in somebody's stomach their are few opportunities to search for a mate). I think inbred species survive because they long ago purged their genomes of lethal alleles. Thus mating with siblings in inbred populations do not result is crazy, unheathy, monster offspring. 3. I wonder why Varroa has variability for a character like fluvalenate resistance anyways ? Why do alelles that confer fluvalenate resistance exist in natural Varroa populations (I know we see widespread Varroa resistant populations in Europe, but for those resistant populations to exist, the character resulting in fluvalenate resistance must have existed in natural populations already) ? Don't Varroa feed on a relatively untoxic food source (honey bee blood) ? Are there lines of bees with Varroa toxic blood that maintain detoxifying characters in Varroa populations (crazy thoughts for a Sunday evening) ? Do Varroa carry a legacy from their ancestral mite stock, that perhaps did not survive only on honey bees, which required detoxifying characters ? Maybe I am altogether jumping the gun. We don't even know what makes resistant Varroa resistant. Maybe it has nothing to do with detoxifying fluvalenate (a common mode of resistance in other species). Maybe resistant mites have a slight modification in their cuticle which results in penetration of the fluvalenate (I don't think this is the case because Milani's work shows that mites resistnat to Varroa are still vulnerable to other miticides (..but maybe these other miticides have different cuticle penetration properties)). Anyways, I could go on and on, but I think Dave the question you raise is a cool one. It could keep someone busy for a long time, and the answers would be of interest to folks beyond the beekeeping world. Adony *********************************** ** Adony P. Melathopoulos ********* *** Center for Pest Management **** **** Simon Fraser University ****** ***** Burnaby, British Columbia *** ****** Canada, V5A-1S6 ************ *********************************** Tel : (604) 291-4163 Fax : (604) 291-3496 e-mail : melathop@sfu.ca "The pursuit of agriculture promotes the strength of the mind as well as the body" - Rev. John L. Blake, 1853 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 15:15:51 PDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: G&A APIARIES AUST PTY LTD MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; X-MAPIextension=".TXT" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Could anyone pass on their views on the use of bee Attractants and Repel= lents on Rockmelon polination on plastic mulch? How long do they last? Is it possible to add to other spray chemicals? Roughly the cost per acre? Where are they available? G & A APIARIES PTY LTD P.O. Box 1160 AYR, Nth Qld 4807 AUSTRALIA ausbee@tpgi.com.au ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 10:39:45 +0200 Reply-To: jtemp@xs4all.nl Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jan Tempelman Organization: Home Subject: Re: drone trapping a la Debbie MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-2 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dave from Scranton wrote: > > On Wed, 18 Jun 1997, Jan Tempelman wrote: > > > > eat them (the drone pulpa) they are delicious > > I'am serious!! > > Then wear an Apistan stip around your neck to keep from getting > your own Varroa infestation...8-} > perhaps they are as the sugar in the coffee or the salt on the egg. -- Jan Tempelman / Ineke Drabbe | EMAIL:jtemp@xs4all.nl Sterremos 16 3069 AS Rotterdam, The Netherlands Tel/Fax (SOMETIMES) XX 31 (0)10-4569412 http://www.xs4all.nl/~jtemp/index3.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 11:25:22 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Frank & Phronsie Humphrey Subject: Re: Bee removal MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Frank & Phronsie Humphrey beekeepr@cdc.net ---------- > From: Conrad Berube > To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU > Subject: Bee removal > Date: Sunday, June 22, 1997 12:48 PM > > Hi Frank, > > >It took about 30 minutes for the bees to start exiting via the tubing. > >However once started they came out in a steady stream. If this continues > >to work as well as it started, I will never again use screening. > > I've used screen in the past to funnel bees and wasps out of nests or into > traps and would offer a caveat. The idea of using screening is that the > screen funnel is permeable to nest odors at all points. Thus the tip of the > funnel is no more attractive than any other point of the funnel (and > probably less so than the areas closer to the original nest opening). Bees > find their way out but not back in. With tubing it seems that you might > risk the possibility that bees would just start using the tubing as an exit > and ENTRANCE back into their old nest. Might be advisable to rig up > something using both tubing and screen to prevent bees from finding their > way back into the tree/building from which you are trying to exclude them. > The end of the tubing is placed in the entrance of the bait hive. On the first day the bees were frantic to get back in to the old nest. 24 hrs. later, some field bees tried to get into the old nest upon returning but quickly turned and entered the bait hive. The young bees were orienting on the bait hive. Today, 48 hours later, a few of the field bees buzzed the old nest entrance then entered the bait hive. Most flew directly into the bait hive. All young bees are orienting on the bait hive. I watched for about a total o 3 hrs the first day, 1 hr the second day and 1 hr. today and I have yet to see any bees using the tube to return to the old nest. > I've also considered using Great Stuff to assist in sealing large areas but > was afraid that the fumes of the curing foam would kill bees, did you notice > this happening at all, Frank? The only bees that I saw killed were those that got stuck in foam as it was curing, about 12 bees. This was a trial so most of the sealing was dun with caulking compound. I only used foam to seal the tube in place so not very much got inside. This colony has been in continuous residence for 20 years and has cast at least 1 swarm every year. For this reason I plan to remove the sideing and capture the queen in about 2 weeks. I would like to get some queens from her since the colony has survived this long unattended. > > - Conrad Berube > " ` ISLAND CROP MANAGEMENT > " ` 613 Hecate St. > _- -_`-_|'\ /` Nanaimo, B.C. > _/ / / -' `~()() V9R 4K4 > \_\ _ /\-._/\/ (250)754-2482; fax (250)656-8922 > / | | email: uc779@freenet.victoria.bc.ca > '` ^ ^ website: http://pinc.com/~bwarner/ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 11:36:44 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Frank & Phronsie Humphrey Subject: Re: honey prices MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ---------- > From: Dave from Scranton > To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU > Subject: Re: honey prices > Date: Sunday, June 22, 1997 4:15 PM > > On Wed, 18 Jun 1997, Richard Drutchas wrote: > > demand. Its hard for me to understand why Dutch Gold and all the big > > packers cant keep the price up to where it should be. They must realize > > we are thier bread and honey. > > You're not their bread and honey, getting *YOU* to take a lower > price is their bread and honey... > > **************************************************************************** ** > Dave D. Cawley, Maitre d' | > The Internet Cafe | > Scranton, Pennsylvania | > (717) 344-1969 | > dave@scranton.com | > **************************************************************************** ** > URL => http://www.scranton.com What is driving the US price down is all the Chinese honey being funneled through Canadian packers and sold in the US as Canadian Honey. Frank Humphrey beekeepr@cdc.net ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 10:15:11 -0600 Reply-To: allend@internode.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Allen Dick Organization: The Beekeepers Subject: Re: honey prices In-Reply-To: <199706231543.LAA02280@cdc3.cdc.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT > What is driving the US price down is all the Chinese honey being funneled > through Canadian packers and sold in the US as Canadian Honey. I would like to see some proof of this. It is my understanding, there has been a little bit of such (illegal) activity, but that it is quite minor in relation to the whole market and in its effects on price. Moreover such activity has been well investigated by the US commerce department. I am sure the extent and the effect of this particular activity on honey prices has been much less than other factors. For example, much less than that of a couple of good ol' boys down in the south who were found to have been selling syrup as honey for some good long time. The latter activity is proven and documented in court. The attribution of lower prices to the former is -- as far as I know -- unfounded and pure conjecture. If not, some names and quantities should be forthcoming to back up this charge -- or a retraction and an apology. Allen ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 15:45:51 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Joel Troxler Subject: REMOVE FROM MAIL LIST HOW DO I REMOVE MYSELF FROM THE BEE MAIL LIST? I HAVE TRIED A COUPLE OF THINGS, BUT NOTHING SEEMS TO WORK ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 16:03:27 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Dusty Rhodes Subject: Re: honey prices Comments: To: allend@internode.net In-Reply-To: <16172580805371@systronix.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 10:15 AM 6/23/97 -0600, Allen Dick wrote: >> What is driving the US price down is all the Chinese honey being funneled >> through Canadian packers and sold in the US as Canadian Honey. > >I would like to see some proof of this. > >It is my understanding, there has been a little bit of such (illegal) >activity, but that it is quite minor in relation to the whole market and >in its effects on price. Moreover such activity has been well >investigated by the US commerce department. It is my understanding that the US govenment was paying a subsity on honey a few years ago. Honduran honey was selling for $.50 a pound. I know of a local honey expert phd. type that can identify the country of origin by the pollen. the test runs about $50... Texas A&M University.. He said that a number of people were trying to make money by selling imported honey as US and it was their job to verify the honey was produced as claimed... Dusty Angel's Old Town HomeBrew http://www.netropolis.net/dusty/homebrew.htm Beauty is in the hands of the beerholder! ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 18:03:57 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Frank & Phronsie Humphrey Subject: Re: honey prices Comments: To: allend@internode.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ---------- > From: Allen Dick > To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU > Subject: Re: honey prices > Date: Monday, June 23, 1997 12:15 PM > > > What is driving the US price down is all the Chinese honey being funneled > > through Canadian packers and sold in the US as Canadian Honey. > > I would like to see some proof of this. > > It is my understanding, there has been a little bit of such (illegal) > activity, but that it is quite minor in relation to the whole market and > in its effects on price. Moreover such activity has been well > investigated by the US commerce department. I read numerous articles stating that this was a problem just after the tariffs went into effect on Chinese honey. I did not however get any names. If this was nipped in the bud, I stand corrected. > > I am sure the extent and the effect of this particular activity on honey > prices has been much less than other factors. For example, much less > than that of a couple of good ol' boys down in the south who were found to > have been selling syrup as honey for some good long time. This was the case at one time. However numerous test have been developed to ferret out honey that has been cut with syrup. It is virtually impossible to get doctored syrup past a large user. Local byres have discerning taste and most can tell if there is syrup in honey or at least if it is not up to snuff. The beekeeper that sells doctored honey, will be the only one eating it in very short order. I also believe I read an article in one of the journals that Canadian had turned back several shipments of honey from China that had been doctored. > > The latter activity is proven and documented in court. The attribution of > lower prices to the former is -- as far as I know -- unfounded and pure > conjecture. > > If not, some names and quantities should be forthcoming to back up this > charge -- or a retraction and an apology. > > Allen ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 12:15:19 +1200 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Mark Horsnell Subject: burr comb on queen excluders Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" can i impose on the collective ideas of u all...... to find out a quick & efficient way to get rid of the burr comb that is clogging up between the bars? thanx in advance, mark ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 18:07:09 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: David Verville Subject: Re: burr comb on queen excluders MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mark Horsnell wrote: > > can i impose on the collective ideas of u all...... to find out a quick & > efficient way to get rid of the burr comb that is clogging up between the bars? > > thanx in advance, > > mark Here's what I do! I have one of those "Reddy Heaters" that burns keosine. I hold them in front of it for about ten seconds and puff, the wax melts! I've heard that the same can be done using a old iron. Dfv ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 23:45:27 -0400 Reply-To: dronebee@norfolk.infi.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "\\Dr. Pedro P. Rodrifuez" Organization: Independent non-profit research Subject: Re: burr comb on queen excluders MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Mark Horsnell wrote: > can i impose on the collective ideas of u all...... to find out a > quick & > efficient way to get rid of the burr comb that is clogging up between > the bars? > > thanx in advance, > > mark For Mark Horsnell: Dear Mark: Burr comb is a nuisance and a waste of "bee work." The easiest way to get rid of burr comb is not to have any. I am not being silly. Good management practices will prevent most often the formation of burr comb. The bees are work-a-holic little creatures and will deposit their little cells in any empty space they find. One way to keep them from filling-in the space between frames is to give them empty frames to fill up. You will seldom see burr comb in chambers that have empty frames. I'll agree that it takes more time to keep going in and giving them "empties" but that is what you want to do. Give them room for them to work. Incidentally, by removing full frames and substituting them with empty (be it by frames with or without foundation) reduces crowding and hence swarming. Try it and let me know if it works for you. Best regards. Dr. Rodriguez ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 22:52:34 -0600 Reply-To: allend@internode.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Allen Dick Organization: The Beekeepers Subject: Ulee's Gold MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Well, tonight I , along with 6 of my crew, saw Ulee's Gold in a preview showing in Calgary. It was as good or better than I expected and I think I can recommend it to pretty well anyone teen aged or older. The plot was plausable and the characters nicely developed and well casted and portrayed. Thankfully, violence and coarse language were restricted to the minimum necessary to tell the story honestly. Peter Fonda was a convincing beekeeper and the beekeeping scenes were very authentic. With a few small changes, his truck, hives and some bee yards could have been mine. (I like to think I have a lot more bees in my hives, but then I don't have a camera crew and all the others to consider when I go to work my hives). I tend to like films with rich, sympathetic camera work and lots of visual detail, and this film did not leave me disappointed. All in all, I found it to be a rich and positive experience and I'm sure I'll see it a time or two again when I have the chance. Allen ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 23:01:45 -0600 Reply-To: allend@internode.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Allen Dick Organization: The Beekeepers Subject: Re: honey prices In-Reply-To: <199706232226.SAA12296@cdc3.cdc.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT > This was the case at one time. However numerous test have been developed > to ferret out honey that has been cut with syrup. It is virtually > impossible to get doctored syrup past a large user. Yup; I understand that tests are effective down to about 5% or so adulteration, an that is pretty well as accurate as necessary. > Local byres have > discerning taste and most can tell if there is syrup in honey or at least > if it is not up to snuff. The beekeeper that sells doctored honey, will > be the only one eating it in very short order. I also believe I read an > article in one of the journals that Canadian had turned back several > shipments of honey from China that had been doctored. True. I saw some of it (Chinese) sitting at a co-op I belong to. Domestic (Canadian) buyers for a large chain had insisted on getting it for a (cheap) blend. After inspecting it the co-op themselves called the feds and had it seized. Although there are always a few crooks around, the Canadian bee industry is very vigilant to protect our products and our good name. Honest labelling is an important part of that and everyone is watching everyone else. Allen ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 23:08:00 -0600 Reply-To: allend@internode.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Allen Dick Organization: The Beekeepers Subject: Re: burr comb on queen excluders In-Reply-To: <199706240015.MAA27686@crash.ihug.co.nz> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT > can i impose on the collective ideas of u all...... to find out a quick & > efficient way to get rid of the burr comb that is clogging up between the > bars? I used to try many different things: Boiling in lye water, boiling in water, stacking and pouring on gas and igniting, solar heating etc. The methods that save the wax can return an amzing amount from a relatively few excluders, but many are hard on the excluders and I have other things to do. In the last 5 years I have decided that cleaning is a waste of time. I just make sure the bees have a sheet or two of foundation nearby so that they have a good place to use wax, and assume that they will move what they find to be in the way. They seem to. After all, if they will eat out a sheet of newspaper, or a grease patty, surely they can handle a little wax. Allen ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 01:52:38 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: RICHARD BARNES Subject: Light colored honey Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Fellow Bee-Lers I just extracted 8 supers from 3 hives that have been on wild flowers and black berries. I was surprised to see an extremely light honey. The honey was lighter yellow than a manilla (sp.?) envelope. Usually our honey is a golden brown not the light yellow color. The honey is also a milder flavor. Greater than 90% of the cells were capped so I figure the moisture was right. We have had a really mild winter an a pretty wet spring this year. Could the extra rain have made the difference? On the blackberries, I am talking 5-7 shades lighter. I don't know the color grading system so I will use something as visual as possible. Blackberry honey is usually the color of wood with a light walnut stain, but this year the honey is the color of pine with a clear varnish. No brown shade only the yellow to nearly clear/white. Other beekeepers in the area are seeing the same on wildflowers. Many of the local buyers like the darker honey because they like the stronger taste. No supply of dark so far this year only the light colored stuff. Any comments will be passed on at the next SW Oklahoma Beekeeper's Association meeting. Richard Barnes ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 03:05:26 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Blaine S Nay Subject: Re: REMOVE FROM MAIL LIST On Mon, 23 Jun 1997 15:45:51 -0400 Joel Troxler writes: >HOW DO I REMOVE MYSELF FROM THE BEE MAIL LIST? > >I HAVE TRIED A COUPLE OF THINGS, BUT NOTHING SEEMS TO WORK > You may leave the list at any time by sending a "SIGNOFF BEE-L" command to LISTSERV@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU. Blaine S Nay; Anchorage, Alaska b.nay@juno.com http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/B_Nay ================================================================== ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 00:34:02 -0700 Reply-To: snielsen@orednet.org Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Susan L. Nielsen" Subject: Re: Ulee's Gold We, too, just got back from a showing. >It was as good or better than I expected IMHO, it was terrific. It was beautifully filmed, beautifully cast, without a false note anywhere. If Fonda does not get an Oscar nomination for this, I will be amazed and disappointed. >Peter Fonda was a convincing beekeeper and the beekeeping scenes were very >authentic. Not only that, he did at least some of his own stunts: held a frame of bees up for inspection, bare-handed. >I tend to like films with rich, sympathetic camera work and lots of >visual detail, and this film did not leave me disappointed. The sight of the honey coming out of the extractor was enough to bring tears to the eyes. The properties manager deserves a nominaton, too. Those frames in the extractor were real, old, black combs. You could almost smell them, there in the movie house. We could not think of another film that features bee-keeping or bee-anything except horror films. This is wonderful. See it. See it. See it. Susan Nielsen | Beehive: If you build it, snielsen@orednet.org | they will comb. -- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 19:14:55 +1000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Mauricio Montes Castillo Subject: Re: mineral oil. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 15:29 20/06/97 -0400, you wrote: >Did some more hives today with mineral oil and have a couple of tips. >Yes you can use a honey bear--- just use a needle to make the whole in >the top.... Q. If vegetable oil is made out of vegetables, and mineral oil is made out of minerals...what is baby oil made out of? Can be used against Varroa or it is used just to stop babies squeaking? Mauricio :) From Down-Under... ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 22:48:48 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Curtis L. Spacek" <"cspacek@flash.net"@FLASH.NET> Subject: Re: burr comb on queen excluders MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I use a 16" bread knife ,it works great all the way to the bottom of the frame ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 22:36:30 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Curtis L. Spacek" <"cspacek@flash.net"@FLASH.NET> Subject: Re: honey prices MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Part of Clinton's most favored nation status no doubt.Chinese beekeepers/government apparently pay more to politicians than the people wanting to transport foreign bees through Hawaii. Is there a pattern emerging here?The possibilities are as numerous as dollars. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 16:49:14 -0400 Reply-To: Kov@prodigy.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Kov Organization: Prodigy Internet Subject: bee stings MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I'm trying to find out more info on the effect of bee stings on the human body. Can you tell me or point me where to look? Thanks in advance for your help. This is research for a medical condition ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 23:31:32 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Paul Cronshaw, D.C." Subject: Honey in Extractor Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Since I have begun extracting this years honey crop, I have a question: If I am going to be using my 4 frame extractor on and off over the next 3 months during this year's season, is it necessary to wash out an extractor after each session of extracting? I mean, can I leave the the little remaining residue honey that lines the walls and pools at the bottom of the extractor? Does honey have any effects on stiainless steel or the welding that joins the metal parts together? Paul Cronshaw, D.C. Cyberchiro and Hobbyist Beekeeper Santa Barbara, CA USA ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 09:55:47 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Dave from Scranton Subject: Re: Light colored honey In-Reply-To: <199706240650.AA22109@interlock.halnet.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sounds like your blackberries got muscled out by something else. I don't know about everyone else, but we had a mild winter and wet spring as well here in NEPA and we had a *VERY* short dandilion season, I put my packages in just as they were starting to sprout and have absolutly no yellow comb or honey from it! The dandilions were up and gone TWICE within 3 weeks. I thought that was pretty fast for them. Anyone else noticing oddities like that? ****************************************************************************** Dave D. Cawley, Maitre d' | The Internet Cafe | Scranton, Pennsylvania | (717) 344-1969 | dave@scranton.com | ****************************************************************************** URL => http://www.scranton.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 10:01:05 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Dave from Scranton Subject: Re: bee stings Comments: To: Kov In-Reply-To: <33AEE14A.4DF1@prodigy.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Mon, 23 Jun 1997, Kov wrote: > I'm trying to find out more info on the effect of bee stings on the > human body. Can you tell me or point me where to look? They hurt for about 15 minutes, then drive you mad when you itch like HELL for about two weeks. > Thanks in advance for your help. This is research for a medical > condition Oh...contact the apitherapy folks...8-} ****************************************************************************** Dave D. Cawley, Maitre d' | The Internet Cafe | Scranton, Pennsylvania | (717) 344-1969 | dave@scranton.com | ****************************************************************************** URL => http://www.scranton.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 09:59:14 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Dave from Scranton Subject: Re: mineral oil. Comments: To: Mauricio Montes Castillo In-Reply-To: <199706240914.TAA20399@student.uq.edu.au> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Tue, 24 Jun 1997, Mauricio Montes Castillo wrote: > > Q. If vegetable oil is made out of vegetables, and mineral oil is made out > of minerals...what is baby oil made out of? All those used diapers have to go *somewhere*!! > Can be used against Varroa or it is used just to stop babies squeaking? You might want to use food grade silicone on the baby, it doesn't smell as much as baby oil or WD40 and give them a nice silver sheen... ****************************************************************************** Dave D. Cawley, Maitre d' | The Internet Cafe | Scranton, Pennsylvania | (717) 344-1969 | dave@scranton.com | ****************************************************************************** URL => http://www.scranton.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 10:08:53 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Dave from Scranton Subject: Alarm Pheromone Question MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII I have two hives right next to each other, maybe a foot or two apart. I've been working the Starlines, then the Midnites when I go out. I've noticed the Midnites seem to be a little more aggressive than the Starlines. They seem to come right upoff the frames at me. The first few times I worked the hives, both colonies seemed to ignore me altoghter, now the Midnites seem more aggressive. I haven't tried working them in reverse yet, I'll try that next time. Could it be that they are smelling the alarm pheromones of the other hive when I squash a few while putting it back together? Or could they be smelling the other hive on my gloves? ****************************************************************************** Dave D. Cawley, Maitre d' | The Internet Cafe | Scranton, Pennsylvania | (717) 344-1969 | dave@scranton.com | ****************************************************************************** URL => http://www.scranton.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 11:20:50 -0300 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Doug Yanega Subject: Re: Ulee's Gold Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Susan Nielsen wrote: >We, too, just got back from a showing. > [snip] >We could not think of another film that features bee-keeping or >bee-anything except horror films. Then you have never seen the excellent Australian film, "Bliss", in which the lead character also discovers the joys of beekeeping. That was also a lovely little movie, and I for one would be interested to see if perhaps "Ulee's Gold" shows any signs of having been inspired by the older Aussie flick. Sincerely, Doug Yanega Depto. de Biologia Geral, Instituto de Ciencias Biologicas, Univ. Fed. de Minas Gerais, Cx.P. 486, 30.161-970 Belo Horizonte, MG BRAZIL phone: 031-448-1223, fax: 031-44-5481 (from U.S., prefix 011-55) http://www.icb.ufmg.br/~dyanega/ "There are some enterprises in which a careful disorderliness is the true method" - Herman Melville, Moby Dick, Chap. 82 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 11:53:33 -0400 Reply-To: dronebee@norfolk.infi.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "\\Dr. Pedro P. Rodrifuez" Organization: Independent non-profit research Subject: Re: mineral oil. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Mauricio Montes Castillo wrote: Dear Sir: I have spent a lot of time, sweat and money trying to find a solution to the onslaught that bee mites have brought onto honey bees worldwide. I fail to see where making fun of it will alleviate the situation. I think that the situation is bad enough with the doubts (understandably) that beekeepers have regarding introduction of what seems like a rather simple solution. I have been very careful to stress the reasons for the use of FOOD GRADE MINERAL OIL in contrast to: 1. vegetable oils which degrade (break down) leaving unpleasant odors inside the chambers of the colony and perhaps becoming a culture medium for germ growth. And, of course once the oil breaks down it probably will lose its ability to act against the mites. 2. baby oil: time and again I have explained that baby oil (although mineral oil) is unacceptable because it is perfumed! Reports from the field indicate that some beekeepers have observed unusual behavior in their bees when using mineral oil (?). I have yet to see any type of reaction to mineral oil after 12 months of continuous use of it which leads me to believe that perhaps the oil in question may have had flavor or odor. As any beekeeper knows, bees do react to odors quite readily. In closing, I consider this subject far too serious to make jest out of it. BROMAS APARTE SENOR CASTILLO. Best regards. Dr. Rodriguez ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 19:11:42 +0300 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Rimantas Zujus Subject: Re REMOVE FROM MAIL LIST Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Joel Troxler (TROXLERJA@aol.com ) wrote >HOW DO I REMOVE MYSELF FROM THE BEE MAIL LIST? >I HAVE TRIED A COUPLE OF THINGS, BUT NOTHING SEEMS TO WORK LISTSERV(R) version 1.8c - most commonly used commands Info Order documentation Lists Get a description of all lists SUBscribe listname Subscribe to a list SIGNOFF listname Sign off from a list SIGNOFF * (NETWIDE - from all lists on all servers REView listname Review a list Query listname Query your subscription options SET listname options Update your subscription options INDex Order a list of LISTSERV files GET filename filetype Order a file from LISTSERV REGister full_name|OFF Tell LISTSERV about your name DIGEST You receive list digests, rather than individual postings MIME You prefer to receive messages in MIME format FULLHDR Full (normal) mail headers (formerly "FULLBSMTP") NOREPRO You do not receive a copy of your own postings ACK Short e-mail acknowledgement of successfully processed postings Send to: LISTSERV@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU a messageSIGNOFF Good luck Rimantas Zujus Kaunas Lithuania ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 12:29:50 -0400 Reply-To: dronebee@norfolk.infi.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "\\Dr. Pedro P. Rodrifuez" Organization: Independent non-profit research Subject: Re: mineral oil. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Dave from Scranton wrote: Dear Dave: Bees are finicky when it comes to odors. They react to them vigorously, some races more than others (best example, africanized honey bees). It could very well be that they are reacting to the pheromones of your other hive. Or, perhaps to odors on your clothing, body, equipment etc. I for one never use any type of lotion (after shaving, deodorant, hair, etc.) and I always blow smoke on my bee suit when freshly washed (because modern washing materials are scented). I have the habit of walking through my bee sites in street clothing and without smoke and I don't get stung. I have observed my bees go after visitors on the spot while not bothering me at all. Why? It could be due to cosmetic scents or just simply to the person's secretion of adrenaline. Either one is capable of arousing honey bees. I hope that I have been helpful to you. Best regards. Dr. Rodriguez ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 09:32:17 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Roy Nettlebeck Subject: Re: Alarm Pheromone Question In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Tue, 24 Jun 1997, Dave from Scranton wrote: > I have two hives right next to each other, maybe a foot or two > apart. I've been working the Starlines, then the Midnites when I go out. > I've noticed the Midnites seem to be a little more aggressive than the > Starlines. They seem to come right upoff the frames at me. The first few > times I worked the hives, both colonies seemed to ignore me altoghter, > now the Midnites seem more aggressive. I haven't tried working them in > reverse yet, I'll try that next time. > Could it be that they are smelling the alarm pheromones of the > other hive when I squash a few while putting it back together? Or could > they be smelling the other hive on my gloves? > Hi Dave, It could be all of the above plus you may have a problem with the bees in the hive. Weather is a factor and the queens pheromones that control the hive may be weak. You could have some pathogens working on the bees also. It can be more complex than just the smell of your gloves. I would smoke my gloves after working the starlines , plus your hive tool.You may be able to work thru this problem with the midnight first. My bet is , you have another problem with the midnights other than your gloves. Midnights are know for being easy to work and slow to become agressive. You could have the hive raise there own queen through supersedure. Now the calmness is gone. Higher populations will raise the number of bees that are agressive. Remember that the queen mates with more than one drone , so all of the workers are not working with the same genes. Like just about everything in beekeeping, it is a little more complex than one simple answer. That is why it is so wonderful to keep bees. Your brain gets a workout every time you work the bees. You already came up with 2 potential problems , I just added to them. Best Regards Roy ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 18:31:54 +0200 Reply-To: jtemp@xs4all.nl Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jan Tempelman Organization: Home Subject: Re: Alarm Pheromone Question MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-2 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dave from Scranton wrote: > Could it be that they are smelling the alarm pheromones of the > other hive when I squash a few while putting it back together? Or could > they be smelling the other hive on my gloves? both!! if possible wash the gloves when changing "hive-working" -- Jan Tempelman / Ineke Drabbe | EMAIL:jtemp@xs4all.nl Sterremos 16 3069 AS Rotterdam, The Netherlands Tel/Fax (SOMETIMES) XX 31 (0)10-4569412 http://www.xs4all.nl/~jtemp/index3.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 13:15:54 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Frank & Phronsie Humphrey Subject: Re: honey prices Comments: To: allend@internode.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit snip > > Although there are always a few crooks around, the Canadian bee industry > is very vigilant to protect our products and our good name. Honest > labelling is an important part of that and everyone is watching everyone > else. > > Allen I whole heartily agree and if my poor choice of words came across as an accusation against the Canadian bee industry as a whole, I apologize for such was not my intent Frank & Phronsie Humphrey beekeepr@cdc.net ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 14:54:10 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "(Thomas) (Cornick)" Subject: Re: Honey in Extractor In a message dated 97-06-24 14:50:04 EDT, you write: << If I am going to be using my 4 frame extractor on and off over the next 3 months during this year's season, is it necessary to wash out an extractor after each session of extracting? >> I guess it depends upon what you want a quality product or garbage. However I am small time also and I rinse the extractor with hot water and use the rinse water to also wash most of the honey from my cappings and this gets fed back to one of my hives (usually a hived swarm) who then draw me out some beautifull new comb. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 13:59:52 -0500 Reply-To: snapshot@pbmo.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "M. C. Michel" Organization: Snap Shot Subject: Re: Alarm Pheromone Question MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > if possible wash the gloves when changing "hive-working" OK, I have a further question. I LIKE my suit and gloves so, what about the pheromones? Can I store my gloves in a box with baking soda and expect the odors to be absorbed? It works in my fridge, why not my gloves. As for washing my suit, I use un scented stuff and it seems that all of the alarm odors are gone. When, after several weeks of working, the bees decide to go home with me in my truck, that is when I wash it. None will really bother me for a while after washing, then slowly more and more will follow me many yards from the hive to my truck, that is when it is washing time. I do nothing for the leather gloves, yet. Can I store them in, say a surplus ammo box with baking soda and expect them to be free of odors? Thanks, M. Chris Michel ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 14:29:16 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Steven Albritton Subject: Re: Alarm Pheromone Question Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 01:59 PM 6/24/97 -0500, you wrote: >> if possible wash the gloves when changing "hive-working" > >OK, I have a further question. I LIKE my suit and gloves so, what >about the pheromones? Can I store my gloves in a box with baking soda >and expect the odors to be absorbed? It works in my fridge, why not my >gloves. > >As for washing my suit, I use un scented stuff and it seems that all of >the alarm odors are gone. When, after several weeks of working, the >bees decide to go home with me in my truck, that is when I wash it. >None will really bother me for a while after washing, then slowly more >and more will follow me many yards from the hive to my truck, that is >when it is washing time. > >I do nothing for the leather gloves, yet. Can I store them in, say a >surplus ammo box with baking soda and expect them to be free of odors? > >Thanks, > >M. Chris Michel > Here in Monroe, La it is so hot and muggy it does not matter. A nice clean suit will be a totally sweaty suit in a matter of minutes. It doesn't take long for all but one ordor to be over powered. Steven Albritton LDS Communications, Sports America, Chauvin Honey Farms Monroe, Louisiana ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 14:02:36 -0600 Reply-To: allend@internode.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Allen Dick Organization: The Beekeepers Subject: Re: Alarm Pheromone & Washing Extractors MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT > > if possible wash the gloves when changing "hive-working" No commercial beekeeper worries about any such thing. Gloves and suits get stored however is convenient, and washed as needed. I'm afraid we are starting get really a long way from realistic and practical advise and discussion, and into conjecture. FWIW, there is no reason in the world to wash out an extractor between uses unless something besides clean honey and wax are in there. Any (hopefully few) bees and larvae are likely pretty well candied by the honey, and besides, most everything drains out anyhow. I don't know anyone who washes out *honeycomb* between uses, and i fail to see how this is different. The only real concerns are: 1. granulation which could result in reduced capacity and 2. seeding of the next honey put through and 3. the question of whether metals migrate into the honey coating the extractor over time. This latter is worth some thought. The seams of some extractors -- including older stainless ones have lead solder, and the tolerance for lead in food is 0.0000000...% For this reason, the honey that coats the extractor and the wash water should probably not go for human consumption. This is more a reason to not wash too often than to wash daily. IMO, anyhow. Allen ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 16:13:38 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Paul Basehore Subject: Re: Light colored honey Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 01:52 AM 6/24/97 -0500, you wrote: >Fellow Bee-Lers > >I just extracted 8 supers from 3 hives that have been on wild flowers and >black berries. I was surprised to see an extremely light honey. The honey >was lighter yellow than a manilla (sp.?) envelope. Usually our honey is a >golden brown not the light yellow color. The honey is also a milder flavor. >Greater than 90% of the cells were capped so I figure the moisture was right. > >We have had a really mild winter an a pretty wet spring this year. Could >the extra rain have made the difference? On the blackberries, I am talking >5-7 shades lighter. I don't know the color grading system so I will use >something as visual as possible. Blackberry honey is usually the color of >wood with a light walnut stain, but this year the honey is the color of pine >with a clear varnish. No brown shade only the yellow to nearly clear/white. > >Other beekeepers in the area are seeing the same on wildflowers. Many of >the local buyers like the darker honey because they like the stronger taste. >No supply of dark so far this year only the light colored stuff. > >Any comments will be passed on at the next SW Oklahoma Beekeeper's >Association meeting. > >Richard Barnes > Richard I to have noticed the light color of this years crop here in Midwest City, also a friend of mine in Del City has observed the same thing. Must be somthing with this year's climate. I was wondering if any one else in Okla. had noticed this and several have. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 16:15:33 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Paul Basehore Subject: Re: mineral oil. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 07:14 PM 6/24/97 +1000, you wrote: >At 15:29 20/06/97 -0400, you wrote: >>Did some more hives today with mineral oil and have a couple of tips. >>Yes you can use a honey bear--- just use a needle to make the whole in >>the top.... > >Q. If vegetable oil is made out of vegetables, and mineral oil is made out >of minerals...what is baby oil made out of? >Can be used against Varroa or it is used just to stop babies squeaking? > >Mauricio :) >From Down-Under... > minerals ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 17:28:31 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Kelley Rosenlund Subject: Re: Ulee's Gold Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 10:52 PM 6/23/97 -0600, you wrote: >Well, tonight I , along with 6 of my crew, saw Ulee's Gold in a preview >showing in Calgary. > >It was as good or better than I expected Same here in Florida. Saw it Saturday night and the director, Victor Nunez, was here to answer questions between shows. I encourage yall to watch it. God Bless, Kelley Rosenlund rosenlk@freenet.ufl.edu Gainesville, Florida, U.S.A., Voice:352-378-7510 Fax/voice:352-372-0078 200 hives, Beekeeping since 1995. 8 frame deeps,shallows. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 17:50:32 EDT Reply-To: "Glen B. Glater" Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Glen B. Glater" Subject: Child's Bee-suit wanted I am looking for a bee suit for my daughter to use to come near the hives with me (and hopefully look inside...) She is 4, and so a size 6 or so suit would be most excellent. Does anyone have an old one kicking around that you might be interested in giving/selling to me? New ones are pretty pricy for something that she'll outgrow in just a few years... Thanks. --glen ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 17:55:30 -0600 Reply-To: allend@internode.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Allen Dick Organization: The Beekeepers Subject: Re: Light colored honey In-Reply-To: <199706242113.QAA14036@dns.okc> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT > > ... I was surprised to see an extremely light honey. The honey > >was lighter yellow than a manilla (sp.?) envelope. Usually our honey is a > >golden brown not the light yellow color. The honey is also a milder flavor. > >Greater than 90% of the cells were capped so I figure the moisture was right. > >We have had a really mild winter an a pretty wet spring this year. Could > >the extra rain have made the difference? ... Colour is fairly closely related to the volume (amount and the speed) of a flow. On heavy flows, the honey tends to be very light -- almost as clear as water - often much less than 15mm on the Pfund grader . On slower, lighter flows, the honey is darker. I understand that this is due to picking up more colour from combs in the hive. I guess on faster flows, the same amount of pignment is spread over much more honey. Some honey -- such as that from the kind of buckwheat that is grown in northern areas -- does have a dark colour regardless of the volume of the flow on which it is produced, and I do not know whether this colour comes from the nectar or whether the nectar undergoes colour changes in handling by the bees. Pure buckwheat can be well over 100 on the Pfund grader. (The best grades look like used axle oil and smell like a hog barn). Allen ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 21:01:49 -0500 Reply-To: rick444@htcomp.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Rick Adcock Subject: Re: mineral oil. Comments: To: dronebee@norfolk.infi.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I for one want to thank you Dr. for all the work you have done for us and our Bees.Please keep up the good work! I tryed the Mineral oil treatment and it worked great! The Bees did'nt mind it at all. Thanks Again for your help Rick Adcock, Cleburne,Texas ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 14:10:07 +1200 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Mark Goodwin Organization: HortResearch,Ruakura,NZ Subject: Plastic foundation In-Reply-To: <33B07C0D.315F@htcomp.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Does anyone have a reference for a scientific paper comparing the performance of plastic foundation and wax foundation. Any help would be much appreciated Thanks Mark Goodwin ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 08:43:09 -0300 Reply-To: rcarlos@alunos.ufv.br Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Rui Carlos Peruquetti Organization: Universidade Federa de =?iso-8859-1?Q?Vi=E7osa?= Subject: On conservation of bees MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, I work with bee-flower interations. So, I=92d like received some informations or papers or references about bee conservation. Georgina Maria de Faria-Mucci Universidade Federal de Vicosa - Departamento de Biologia Geral Vicosa - Minas Gerais - Brazil. 36571-000 e-mail: gfaria@mail.ufv.br ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 22:22:29 +0900 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: j h & e mcadam Subject: Re: burr comb on queen excluders Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" mark writes: >can i impose on the collective ideas of u all...... to find out a quick & >efficient way to get rid of the burr comb that is clogging up between the bars? > Burr comb is a genetic trait - select hives for queen breeding that do not build excessive burr comb. Even when using 9 frames in honey supers, which I do as common practice, my best hives do not build burr comb. On frames that do have burr comb, I use a paint scraper,usually just after I have rotated the frames for 24 hours through a chest freezer to kill all stages of wax moth. I have not had the problem of completely clogging a queen excluder although when I examine hives that have been abandoned by others, the hive will have built drone brood in all possible spaces. Best way to eliminate burr comb is probably to make sure hive can work productively at all time - inspect brood box and remove any frames of honey and pollen to above excluder, replacing them with foundation or fully drawn brood frame to keep the queen working. Use of a hive mat ensures the hive does not extend comb above the top frame bar. Betty McAdam HOG BAY APIARY Penneshaw, Kangaroo Island j.h. & e. mcadam Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Conrad Sigona Subject: Re: burr comb on queen excluders In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.32.19970625132229.00675160@kigateway.kin.on.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII > ...................................... Use of a hive mat ensures the hive > does not extend comb above the top frame bar. I have not heard of this. I presume it is placed across the top of the frames? Conrad Sigona conrad@ntcnet.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 09:05:49 -0500 Reply-To: beeman52@worldnet.att.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ken Lawrence Subject: Re: Light colored honey MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dave from Scranton wrote: > > Sounds like your blackberries got muscled out by something else. > I don't know about everyone else, but we had a mild winter and wet spring > as well here in NEPA and we had a *VERY* short dandilion season, I put my > packages in just as they were starting to sprout and have absolutly no > yellow comb or honey from it! The dandilions were up and gone TWICE within > 3 weeks. I thought that was pretty fast for them. Anyone else noticing > oddities like that? > > ****************************************************************************** > Dave D. Cawley, Maitre d' | > The Internet Cafe | > Scranton, Pennsylvania | > (717) 344-1969 | > dave@scranton.com | > ****************************************************************************** > URL => http://www.scranton.com Hello Dave: Ken Lawrence over here north of Kansas city Mo. Bees are working up a storm here. I have 28 hives and have 92 or 93 supers (med.) not all full but sure are working on them. Dutch, Sweetclovers (yellow and white) are in full bloom. I had a rally good Dandelion bloom which helped mine. I started out with 3 hives of my own and adopted 4 more that I split and made up my 28 hives this year. Lost 28 out of 31 last fall to mites. Looks like I will have a chance to try out my Cowen Mini Uncapper I just bought. Still have soybeans and Buckwheat flows to come yet. Hope you and everybody else have a HONEY of a HONEY YEAR. Ken ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 16:13:37 +0100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Vita Vydra Organization: Faculty of Civil Engineering Subject: mineral oil = paraffin oil? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT On 5 Jun 97 at 19:23, Dr. Pedro Rodriguez wrote: > In Europe (I should have remembered) > mineral oil is known as > paraffin oil. It is the same thing. Is it really the same thing? I have applied paraffin oil recently with no success. Das anyone in Europe have possitive experience with paraffin oil or liquid paraffin as varroa treatment? Vita Vydra ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 09:13:25 -0500 Reply-To: beeman52@worldnet.att.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ken Lawrence Subject: Re: Light colored honey MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Allen Dick wrote: Pure buckwheat can be well over 100 on the Pfund grader. > (The best grades look like used axle oil and smell like a hog barn). > > Allen Hello Allen: You said a mouthfull talking about Buckwheat Honey. I extracted 60 gallons about 2 years ago and first time looked around for a Hog farm. Sure blew my mind on the smell and color. I really put the bees on it for feed and then found out alot of people like it so I sold most of it. Will take most of my bees back there the last of August for some more of the Buckwheat. Sure makes the bees pull foundation. Ken ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 20:56:00 GMT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Andy Nachbaur Organization: WILD BEE'S BBS (209) 826-8107 LOS BANOS, CA Subject: Re: honey prices DR>From: Dusty Rhodes >Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 16:03:27 -0500 >Subject: Re: honey prices >I know of a local honey expert phd. type that can identify the country of >origin by the pollen. >the test runs about $50... Texas A&M University.. Sounds like a good business. >He said that a number of people were trying to make money by selling >imported honey as US and it was their job to verify the honey was produced >as claimed... One should understand that any 50$ test, which is way to expensive as any Jr. high school student could do it with a toy microscope, can in most cases only identify the family of plants the pollen is from, not the exact plant. (That would take more gold then 50$ a sample to do right.) It is also important to know that if the honey was filtered, or uncapped without cutting deep into the combs as little pollen would be in it to look at. Filtering as done in the US without the addition of charcoal, we use DE, can take out any particles down to one micron which is smaller then most pollen grains. Foreign honey handlers can legally in their own countries do much more then is allowed in the US. One only has to sample honey or what is called honey in Japan and many other countries of this world market to understand their is a difference in cultural treatment of honey as a food and maybe understand why North America honey in consumer packages does not sell well in the local far east market. More honey is drank in the world then is spread on bread. Maybe we should spend a little more on researching on how other people use honey to be ready for the new export markets of the next century before our computers all crash and we have to redo all research. ALSO pollen could bee added with little effort by anyone along the honey handling chain to give a false ID, and much honey is produced from plants that have little or no pollen that can get into the honey. Much of the honey imported into the USA comes from co-opt's of one kind or another, mostly government controlled and it is processed. (*Blended, Filtered, things removed, things added.) It is nothing like what most honey producers in the US sell in bulk to honey packers but more like what the packers sells bulk to end users which is a blended, filtered, moisture adjusted +- ; honey product, and in some cases other sugars are added according to the contract with the buyer. (The law says if sugar (or anything else) is added it must be labeled as such and can not be called HONEY.) The bulk sale of honey to industrial users in the US is very competitive and price sensitive with importers, domestic packers, and beekeepers all competing for the same business. According to private information from one large US handler, I quote his sales manager, June 9, 1997: "OVERALL MARKET TRENDS (for industrial honey) 1. Strong pricing now is quickly moving downward. 2. Industrial pricing is the easiest to change. 3. Faster to react to market." (end quotes) This packer sold to the bulk industrial market about 15 million pounds of mostly US domestic produced honey in the last year. In the last few months they have been out bid on almost 4 millions pounds ranging between .88-.80 US$., their bid. Size of these bids range from 25,000 to 1,400,000 pounds. The lower price was for one large lot. The average was between .84-.87. (All domestic produced honey) Remember this was lost business as others bid lower and made the sale. GM, General Mills, the "beekeepers friend", was offering to buy bulk honey in the low $0.70. Real nice people to deal with, I guess they spent so much on helping bee research they now must recover it from the honey producers. Kind of reminds me of those guy's from the government who are here to help you, with one hand on your shoulder and the other one in your pocket. Well if all they are reaching for is your money I guess its OK, but since most beekeepers I know have had empty pockets for as long as I can remember I am beginning to wonder...about them not the beekeepers. Anyway for what it's worth I forgive any beekeeper who buy's or supports any GM products for you know not what you do, and we are doing it to ourselves. POST or Kellog's is better and it is a lot cheeper then buying leather boxing gloves for all your young boys which is the main advantage of their products anyway. ttul, the OLd Drone (c) Permission is granted to freely copy this document in any form, or to print for any use. (w)Opinions are not necessarily facts. Use at own risk. 62797 --- ~ QMPro 1.53 ~ "Where there are fruits & nuts, there are beekeepers" ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 20:40:00 GMT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Andy Nachbaur Organization: WILD BEE'S BBS (209) 826-8107 LOS BANOS, CA Subject: bee stings K>From: Kov >Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 16:49:14 -0400 >Subject: bee stings K>I'm trying to find out more info on the effect of bee stings on the >human body. Can you tell me or point me where to look? In the general area of the entry wound made by the sting. K>Thanks in advance for your help. This is research for a medical >condition Kov, This is a two sided coin, as their are those who say bee stings kill and others who say they cure all. The best place for medical information is your local doctor, but I am sure you will hear from others and there has been much PR on the beneficial effects of bee venom in the press recently, mostly re-hash of old information. Search the internet as you will find several sites promoting bee stings and even some who will sell it to you. Most beekeepers want to believe bee stings are good for you, all but a few who now know better and are dead. ttul, Andy- --- ~ QMPro 1.53 ~ The fittest will survive yet the unfit may live. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 12:58:39 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Blaine S Nay Subject: Re: burr comb on queen excluders >can i impose on the collective ideas of u all...... to find out a quick & >efficient way to get rid of the burr comb that is clogging up between >the bars? I built a "solar wax extractor". It's essentially two of hive boddies with a sheet of clear plexiglass (glass may break from temperature changes) on top and an old queen excluder between the hive bodies. I had a stainless steel pan made to hust fit the inside dimensions of the bottom hive body. When I have some wax (from old frames, cappings, burr-comb, etc) that I want to recover, I place it in the upper hive body on top of the old queen excluder. The hot sun quickly melts the wax into the pan. The dead bees and other sludge stays on top on the excluder. From time-to-time, I replace the pan with some newspapers, invert the queen excluder. The hot sun loosens the gunk to fall onto the newspaper. The resulting lump works nicely to start a fire in the fireplace. The point of all this? One could put queen excluders with burr comb into such a device to clean them up. O'l Mr. Sol puts out a lot of heat, but not enough to damage equipment or wax. Blaine S Nay; Anchorage, Alaska b.nay@juno.com http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/B_Nay ================================================================== ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 13:33:04 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: RICHARD BARNES Subject: Re: burr comb on queen excluders Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 12:58 PM 6/25/97 EDT, you wrote: >>can i impose on the collective ideas of u all...... to find out a quick >& >>efficient way to get rid of the burr comb that is clogging up between >>the bars? > I take my queen excluders to the carwash and the high pressure steamer quickly pushes the wax off of the queen excluder. I haven't noticed any damage to the spacings using this method. I only use the rince cycle. I also wash my car while I am there. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 14:54:44 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ed Costanza Subject: Aggressive Bees What can you do to make an excessively aggressive hive of bees more docile? Out of 15 hives of bees and 30 years of keeping bees I can never remember a hive so aggressive. I have had this particular hive of bees for 3 years now. Their aggressiveness has increased dramatically in the past 2 months. Over the last 2 years I had lost all my bees to mites except this hive. Thiey were moved to our apple orchard for pollination along with hives from another beekeeper. The original queen died and was replaced by the hive itself. There is a heavy honey flow on now predominate with yellow clover. I am not sure what to do with this hive, because after each inspection it is impossible to work anywhere near it with out being attached. Ed Costanza Edgewood, NM (30 miles east of Albuquerque) ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 21:02:30 GMT+0200 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Garth Organization: Rhodes University South Africa Subject: Re: burr comb on queen excluders With reference to the numerous posts on burr comb removal. I have been watching how my bees build buurr comb and have concluded that it is for insulation purposes. Wild hives are hardly ever situated in a place where the brood nest has half a meter to a meter of honey stored over it. In my experience the brood nest is uusually below the ceiling of whatever theyare on, seperated by three cm of capped honey. Hence my gut feeling is that the bees are trying to conserve heat by plggin up all the holesthat would lead to convection cuurrents cooling them down. Has anybody ever read of a hive where the supers are below and the brood nest above for winter in mild areas? Anyhow, I tried removing burr comb and then formulated thisexcusenot to. Keep well Garth --- Garth Cambray "Opinions expressed in this post may be those 15 Park Road of Pritz, my cat, who knows a lot about Grahamstown catfood." 6140 *garth@rucus.ru.ac.za* South Africa Phone 27-0461-311663 In general, generalisations are bad. But don't worry BEEEEEE happy. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 15:05:57 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ed Costanza Subject: New Mexico Beekeepers Are there any New Mexico beekeepers reading BEE-L? Please E-mail me and let me know if you are a member of the New Mexico Beekeepers association or not. Ed Costanza Edgewood, NM ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 21:24:36 GMT+0200 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Garth Organization: Rhodes University South Africa Subject: Re: Light colored honey Hi All I have thouugh of a reason that the honey is light. I have often watched my bees colecting propolis. They do so when it is warm so they can get the stuff oof whatever it is on. (eg eucalyptus trees here). My bees are drawing a few frames now in winter with the euucalyptus flow and I have noticed that these frames are lighter than the frames drawn from another eucalyptuus flow in summer. Hence my theory is that the bees are unable to gather much propolis nowbecause oof the cold. Hence the honey will pick up less of the water soluble elements of the propolis as there is less propolis and hence will be lighter? Now lts of the posts Ihave seen fromthe US are grumbling about a wet spring with lots oof clouuds. Noot good for propolis gathering. Are the recently drawn frames lighter looking? I wouuld think that old frames wouuld also have lighterhoney as the residual colouring leftin the frames wouldnot be 'honey' solble, otherwise it wouldnot beleft, solast years colour will not carry through. Keep well Garth Just a thought Garth --- Garth Cambray "Opinions expressed in this post may be those 15 Park Road of Pritz, my cat, who knows a lot about Grahamstown catfood." 6140 *garth@rucus.ru.ac.za* South Africa Phone 27-0461-311663 In general, generalisations are bad. But don't worry BEEEEEE happy. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 16:25:20 -0300 Reply-To: rcarlos@alunos.ufv.br Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Rui Carlos Peruquetti Organization: Universidade Federa de =?iso-8859-1?Q?Vi=E7osa?= Subject: Aos brasilerios MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable H=E1 na BEE-L algum brasileiro subscrito? Voce sabe que existe uma lista sobre abelhas brasileiras (BEEBR)? Se quiser maiores detalhes me escreva. I apologize, but I need to know if there is some brazilian people (unlike me of course) subscribe in BEE-L. Thanks. -- = Rui Carlos Peruquetti = Universidade Federal de Vicosa Depto de Biologia Geral = 36571-000 - Vicosa - Minas Gerais - Brazil ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 14:21:46 -0600 Reply-To: allend@internode.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Allen Dick Organization: The Beekeepers Subject: Re: Alarm Pheromone & Washing Extractors In-Reply-To: <199706251923.NAA20538@selway.umt.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT > As per the bee stink in gloves. We carry a spray bottle of isopropyl > alcohol. If we get into a chalky colony or if the gloves of one or our > newbies get too many stings, an alcohol spritz settles things down. A California beekeeper (Gabe Arroyo) says he uses Deep Woods Off to solve such problems. Apparently it numbs the bees ability to smell for about twenty minutes. He just sprays it on the victim and in the air around him and gets 20 minutes respite. Allen ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 22:25:17 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "W. G. Miller" Subject: Re: Washing Extractors My practice is to wash out the extractor and uncapping tray if they are going to sit idle for more than a day or so. I have found that in the humid summer Maryland climate, honey will absorb moisture and ferment surprisingly quickly if it is left with a lot of open surface. I also have come to fetch my not-yet-cleaned uncapping tray and found in the honey a candied mouse. That taught me to clean up after each day's extracting. W. G. Miller Gaithersburg, MD ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 21:28:57 -0500 Reply-To: rick444@htcomp.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Rick Adcock Subject: Re: mineral oil. Comments: To: Rimantas Zujus MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, Rimantas I don't quite know what the differance is but they are not the same. Mineral oil and castrol oil are both used as a laxative. Check with your Drugest.If I can help with anything else let me know. Rick Adcock, Cleburne, Texas ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 21:27:43 -0600 Reply-To: allend@internode.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Allen Dick Organization: The Beekeepers Subject: Re: Washing Extractors In-Reply-To: <970625222219_374890817@emout14.mail.aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT > My practice is to wash out the extractor and uncapping tray if they are > going to sit idle for more than a day or so. > > I have found that in the humid summer Maryland climate, honey will absorb > moisture and ferment surprisingly quickly if it is left with a lot of > open surface. Good point. We're in a very dry area. We do cover everything with plastic when not in use, but humidity can cause real problems with galvanized equipment if it is high, since honey will draw moisture and ferment, then turn to vinegar. Vinegar, being an acid will remove the galvanizing or lift metals from the solder. Of course any such occurrence would mean that the outfit would have to be washed anyhow, so if in doubt, washing the system if more than a few days pass between extractions could be a good practice. Nonetheless some beekeepers do not wash their extracting line at all at the end of the season, but rather right before beginning extracting if they are confident that the storage area is dry. They claim the honey protects the metal. > I also have come to fetch my not-yet-cleaned uncapping tray and found in > the honey a candied mouse. That taught me to clean up after each day's > extracting. Hmm. We're not permitted to have mice in our honey house ;) Allen ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 23:36:07 -0400 Reply-To: dronebee@norfolk.infi.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "\\Dr. Pedro P. Rodrifuez" Organization: Independent non-profit research Subject: Re: Aggressive Bees MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Dear Ed: I hate to make the following recommendation but circumstances require it. Because of the proximity to the zone where africanized bees are located, I would not take any chances with it having africanized traits in it. Also, sometimes bees have a tendency to become meaner through inbreeding. It is both difficult to work with nasty bees and a liability. Find the queen. Kill it and replace it with a known docile strain. It is a great pity because from what you say, there is a possiblity that this particular colony has developed natural resistance to mites. Best regards. Dr. Rodriguez ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 4 Jan 1980 09:53:03 GMT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: QUB Subject: Definition of mineral oil MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Hi all, Lets sort this out once and for all...... In the UK mineral oil equals liquid parrafin. Mineral oil is not the same as parrafin oil which is used in domestic heaters (eg such as those used in greenhouses). Baby oil is mineral oil BUT has other substances added, do not use baby oil! Ask your chemist/pharmacist/agricultural merchant for pure light liquid parrafin , if you are still confused !! Go to a reputable pharmacist, drug house, chemist , whatever... Ask any pharmacist to look up the MEREK INDEX 11th edtion, page 7141, item 7139, Petrolatum,liquid. (otherwise known as mineral oil,parrafin oil, other tradenames are :Clearteck,Drakeol,Hevyteck etc... etc.. ) Any pharmacist who is creditable will recognise this reference! This is what you want, NOTHING else will do. QED regards Philip Earle On Wed, 25 Jun 1997 16:13:37 +0100 Vita Vydra wrote: > From: Vita Vydra > Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 16:13:37 +0100 > Subject: mineral oil = paraffin oil? > To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU > > On 5 Jun 97 at 19:23, Dr. Pedro Rodriguez wrote: > > > In Europe (I should have remembered) > > mineral oil is known as > > paraffin oil. It is the same thing. > > > Is it really the same thing? I have applied paraffin oil > recently with no success. Das anyone in Europe have possitive > experience with paraffin oil or liquid paraffin as varroa > treatment? > > Vita Vydra ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 19:49:09 +0900 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: j h & e mcadam Subject: Re: burr comb on queen excluders Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Conrad Sigona wrote: >> ...................................... Use of a hive mat ensures the hive >> does not extend comb above the top frame bar. > >I have not heard of this. I presume it is placed across the top of the >frames? > I use hive mats cut from surplus vinyl flooring - just a fraction smaller than the super so that bees can move into the space below the lid. Because of the physical barrier there is no comb built above the mat. The advantages I find are that not only is there no burr comb in the lid but the bees are not exposed immediately on opening and a puff or two of smoke around the edges starts them moving down before the hive mat is lifted. This season I am moving into propolis production so have placed propolis mats immediately under the lid which I expect to serve the same purpose (as well as collect propolis). Betty McAdam HOG BAY APIARY Penneshaw, Kangaroo Island j.h. & e. mcadam Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Paul & Sandra Roberts Subject: cosmetic and other recipes for hive produce MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I am looking for some tried and trusted recipes for using our hive produce. In particular recipes for cosmetics from beeswax, furniture polish, shoe polish, propolis uses etc.would be appreciated. With thanks, Paul Roberts ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 21:16:05 +1000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Paul & Sandra Roberts Subject: American Foul Brood - Killing Spores MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Can anyone please advise me of the temperature which needs to be achieved to kill the spores. I would also appreciate any technical papers to back up the evidence if possible. With thanks Paul Roberts ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 11:45:46 UT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: S Subject: Backsavers Has anyone used the Backsaver hive lifting device that's been advertised in Bee Culture? If so how do you like it? Or does anyone have any other tricks or tips to make lifting hive bodies and supers easier? Thanks. Susan, a new beekeeper who does not want to have a bad back ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 08:22:16 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Aaron Morris Subject: Backsaver MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT I saw the Backsaver at ABF in January, and purchased one. So far I haven't used it. The guy who markets it admits in the literature that it is at first awkward to use and get used to. However, the literature goes on to say that you must force yourself to get used to it and after you do you will wonder how you ever got along without it. It is a well made, simple tool and as the supers get heavier I keep asking myself why I'm not using it. The higher your stacks get (the more supers you have stacked) the less usable is the tool, but it will be great for hefting the top brood chamber off the bottom. That was the main reason I bought one - I can handle the honey supers (I use medium supers for honey) but the brood chambers at this time of the year are more than I want to subject my back to. I built raised stands for my hives so I wouldn't have to bend over as much, but I've discovered that the extra height of the stands is not so good when it comes to the mechanics of the Backsaver and even more so with the Helvey hive carrier which I also purchased (see last October(?) ABJ). I too am concerned about my back. If you do buy a Backsaver, a tip is to use it so that you push the super away from the two feet of the tool. When invited to "Try it out" I lifted the super and tried to set it down by going through the feet to put the super on the other side. The marketer (I forget his name) showed me the "proper" way which worked much better. Whichever side of the hive you place the tool, use it to place the supers on the other side. That is, if you put the Backsaver to the left of the hive, use it to lift and set your supers to the right of the hive. One funny thing at the trade show was that few people paid attention to the Backsaver display. Perhaps it was a macho thing - "REAL men don't have to worry about their backs!". However, the mechanics of the tool are sound and as the literature says, learn to use the tool and you'll wonder how you ever lived without it. "Give me a lever big enough and a place to stand and I can move the earth!" - Archimedies. Aaron Morris - I think, therefore I bee! ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 08:47:30 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "(Thomas) (Cornick)" Subject: Re: burr comb on queen excluders I have heard of beekeepers just putting the excluder on top of the hive cover and the sun melts out the wax and coats the lid at the same time. Only downside to this would be robbing if the stuff is full of honey ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 13:20:02 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Peter Keating Subject: Re: burr comb on queen excluders MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Allen, l was cleaning excluders only yesterday evening.l have at present no time to save the wax so l am using a old honey barrel with a fire in the bottom(old frames and newspaper) and just place the excluder on top for a few seconds.The wax melts and fuels the fire.A large block of wood shortly after starting helps to maintain a nuclei for the fire.Of course l only use wire bound excluders!It would be nice to save the wax, but is the investissement involved worth it? Yours PeterPeter John Keating keating@destination.ca ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 23:41:05 PDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Dennis Subject: A place to learn and to teach MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; X-MAPIextension=".TXT" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On June 20, Billy Bee wrote: "And for anybody's information---- this place is to learn and to teach and not get your butt chewed out!!!" Ahmen, pass the questions, consider the answers, and if you can not say = something good, SHUT UP! Dennis Morefield Sideline Beekeeper, Oregon, USA denmar@mind.net ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 10:21:59 -0400 Reply-To: dronebee@norfolk.infi.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "\\Dr. Pedro P. Rodrifuez" Organization: Independent non-profit research Subject: Re: Definition of mineral oil MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 QUB wrote: Dear Friends: I have been answering questions regarding mineral oil on an individual basis and was about to post a collective answer on Bee-L but thanks to my good friend Dr. Earle there is no need for further explanations. Thank you Dr. Earle. I have taken explicit care and insisted that I have used nothing but "medicinal mineral oil," with the exception that I mentioned that mineral oil is also known as paraffin oil in some parts of Europe. Those of you to whom I have written on a personal basis will recall that I have specifically warned against the possibility of using "alkane" or "kerosene" that also are called paraffin. Again, using Dr. Earle's counseling, those of you who do not live in areas where food grade mineral is available, PLEASE GO TO YOUR LOCAL PHARMACIST FOR ASSISTANCE. We have a good thing going to combat bee mites. Please let us not confuse ourselves by introducing toxic substances into our beehives that will result in loses, wrong attitudes and undue distrust of a promising procedure. Best regards. Dr. Rodriguez ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 11:41:00 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Leigh Wiley Subject: Backsaver Does anyone have info or experience with the Helvey Hive carrier? BE>I saw the Backsaver at ABF in January, and purchased one. So far I BE>haven't used it. The guy who markets it admits in the literature that BE>it is at first awkward to use and get used to. However, the literature BE>goes on to say that you must force yourself to get used to it and after BE>you do you will wonder how you ever got along without it. BE>It is a well made, simple tool and as the supers get heavier I keep BE>asking myself why I'm not using it. The higher your stacks get (the BE>more supers you have stacked) the less usable is the tool, but it will BE>be great for hefting the top brood chamber off the bottom. That was BE>the main reason I bought one - I can handle the honey supers (I use BE>medium supers for honey) but the brood chambers at this time of the year BE>are more than I want to subject my back to. I built raised stands for BE>my hives so I wouldn't have to bend over as much, but I've discovered that BE>the extra height of the stands is not so good when it comes to the BE>mechanics of the Backsaver and even more so with the Helvey hive BE>carrier which I also purchased (see last October(?) ABJ). I too am BE>concerned about my back. BE>If you do buy a Backsaver, a tip is to use it so that you push the BE>super away from the two feet of the tool. When invited to "Try it BE>out" I lifted the super and tried to set it down by going through BE>the feet to put the super on the other side. The marketer (I forget BE>his name) showed me the "proper" way which worked much better. BE>Whichever side of the hive you place the tool, use it to place the BE>supers on the other side. That is, if you put the Backsaver to the BE>left of the hive, use it to lift and set your supers to the right of BE>the hive. BE>One funny thing at the trade show was that few people paid attention to BE>the Backsaver display. Perhaps it was a macho thing - "REAL men don't BE>have to worry about their backs!". However, the mechanics of the tool BE>are sound and as the literature says, learn to use the tool and you'll BE>wonder how you ever lived without it. BE>"Give me a lever big enough and a place to stand and I can BE>move the earth!" - Archimedies. BE>Aaron Morris - I think, therefore I bee! ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 09:52:38 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jerry J Bromenshenk Subject: Re: Washing Extractors In-Reply-To: <970625222219_374890817@emout14.mail.aol.com> from "W. G. Miller" at Jun 25, 97 10:25:17 pm MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This message points out the differences geographic location makes. The high humidity and frequent rainfall on the east coast is much different than the semi-arid areas of the west. And, it affects everything. Raised lids on populous hives to reduce condensation in Maryland, rust (I had brand new, Master Padlock's rust shut in a year in Maryland, I have 20 year old locks in Montana with virtually no rust), and wax moths at the door of the hive before it even gets off the truck (even at new apiary locations), ugh! By comparison, our deserts can get mighty hot in summer and cold in winter, and the 100" of snow last December in Missoula adds another complicating factor (forget about top entrances). Over the last 24 years, we have kept worked with hundred of colonies on the West Coast (Seattle), eastern Washington, all of Montana, and most of Idaho, and now are in our third year in Maryland. Every area brings different management problems, and it is not simply the timing of nectar flows or when to put on queen excluders. Cheers Jerry Bromenshenk The University of Montana ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 11:58:18 -0400 Reply-To: dronebee@norfolk.infi.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "\\Dr. Pedro P. Rodrifuez" Organization: Independent non-profit research Subject: Mineral Oil Treatment Update MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Dear Friends: I have received several inquiries regarding the amount of oil to be applied per colony. I have answered the questions individually as I received them, but I thought that I have received enough questions to deserve an update post to Bee-L. When I started using a measured amount, I used 2 - 2.5 cc of oil per top bar every two weeks without toxic effects. Presently I am using the same amount of oil every ten days applied to each top bar in the colony. The reasons for the changes are: 1. some of the oil is absorbed by the wood of the frame. 2. much larger bee populations (less oil available per bee). 3. summer's heat thins out the oil. 4. with a larger bee population and a decreased mite population, more oil is required to ascertain that mites are exposed to a lethal quantity of oil. I would like to emphasize the fact that my findings continue to indicate that FOOD GRADE MINERAL OIL is toxic to bee mites after more than one year of use. My findings also indicate that bee mites are very difficult to control, hence requiring perseverance, exactness and trust on the procedure. Please continue to send me input about your own findings. It is appreciated! Best regards. Dr. Rodriguez ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 11:59:07 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ross M Subject: Re: Feeding Greetings from Canada: A couple of weeks ago (3) I installed a 4 frame Nuc into a new hive and have been feeding 1 to 1 sugar every couple of days with a top feeder in the hive. I have just placed the second brood hive on and am still feeding so the bees can pull out the wax. I don't plan on taking any honey off this year. My question: Would it bee ok to keep feeding them untill they have finished "pulling the wax" of should I stop feeding them ? Thanking you in advance ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 18:02:01 GMT+0200 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Garth Organization: Rhodes University South Africa Subject: Re: burr comb on queen excluders On the topic of burr combb, I took over a hive with a lid bbuilt on it such that a two centimeter space was above the frames. At firs I houghtt this was a bad idea as the burr comb potential is great. I appears however that the bees liked he added space and when I put a flat top lid the ratte at which they filled the supers decreased. I put the original lid back and they filled better again. I made lids of the same design for the other hives and they also increased productivity. The drift of this is that in my opinion the mat is therefore a bad idea, as it would mimic the lid. (that is assuming he ma goes above the super.) Keep well Garth --- Garth Cambray "Opinions expressed in this post may be those 15 Park Road of Pritz, my cat, who knows a lot about Grahamstown catfood." 6140 *garth@rucus.ru.ac.za* South Africa Phone 27-0461-311663 In general, generalisations are bad. But don't worry BEEEEEE happy. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 15:58:00 GMT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Andy Nachbaur Organization: WILD BEE'S BBS (209) 826-8107 LOS BANOS, CA Subject: Plagiarism re-cell size This OLd Drone is eating a little crow, and at last one of his opinions was wrong and he, (I) made a mistake and apologize to all as Dr. Erickson points out in this note in the past he has shared the glory of research with beekeepers and he is right and I acknowledge that I made a mistake and accept that I was wrong. Dr. Erickson is the beekeepers friend. IMHO The public other then you and I are not going to take the time to research the record and sadly all they will ever know about this subject is what they read in the latest "news" paper fillers on honeybees and what the USDA puts out as press releases on the their web site. What I wrote is based on what I and what I think the public has or will see "today" on this subject and in my humble opinion I tried to express that in my posting as accurate and the best I could. I am not perfect, I am not a bee scientist, I am a old opinionated beekeeper who has a small cancer on the end of his proboscis that maybe sometimes blurs what I see and I do make mistakes. Or at least I did as far as Dr. Erickson efforts to acknowledge beekeepers collaboration with him in the past based on what I read and have seen the last week in the farm papers and on the United States Department of Agriculture web site of their own AGRICULTURAL RESEARCH MAGAZINE for May 1997 at: http://www.ars.usda.gov/is/AR/archive/may97/ Have a look and judge for yourselves if the public is being given the facts. ttul Andy- the OLd Drone This message was from "Eric H. Erickson, Jr." ---------------------------------------- From: "Eric H. Erickson, Jr." To: andy.nachbaur@beenet.com Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 12:50:09 -0600 Subject: Plagiarism re-cell size Organization: USDA-ARS Carl Hayden Bee Research Center Now that opinion in the absence of fact has been expressed, let me take just a moment to provide the facts. The first recent (since the 1930's or thereabouts) article on the subject of honey bee comb cell size was published in Gleanings In Bee Culture (Feb.-Mar., 1990) with the "Beekeepers" (Dee and Ed Lusby) as co-authors. By mutual agreement I was the senior author and did much of the writing. In this article we included our collective speculations. Since that time I have published/co-published 3 additional articles that in one way or another relate to the subject of cell size (Gleanings, Nov. 1990: Ame. Bee J.: April 1992; and Amer, Bee J.: May 1996). In each I was careful to cite our original article and/or ackowledge contributions made by the Lusby's. The news release over which this 'issue' was raised is a report on varroa research which I and other Arizona beekeepers (not the Lusby's this time) collaborated in from 1992 to 1995. I reported the results of this work at the American Honey Producers meeting in Corpus Christie, TX two years ago. The Lusby's were there and I acknowledged them at that time. A manuscript has been submitted for publication on this latest work and, as before, our earlier paper (with the Lusby's) is cited. The Lusby's and I regularly talk about our respective work on the subject of cell size. They are pursuing their interests and I mine, and we share our further ideas and results. Dee has been urging me to publish the work I reported in Corpus Christie and when I sent her a a copy of the subject news release she called me with her excited congratulations. These are the facts minus any opinion. Any one who is interested in the facts and chooses to check them can do so easily. Eric H. Erickson --- ~ QMPro 1.53 ~ I am not young enough to know everything anymore. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 12:37:29 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Steve, Kim and Matthew" Subject: Einstein Prediction MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi everyone: Here is an article I found rather interesting. It is put out by the 700 Club and is exactly one year old today. Here is the url it is located at... http://www.the700club.org/news/stories/honeybee.html Sincerely, Kim ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Check out my family! http://www.vvm.com/~tjscott/Matt.htm ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 14:53:06 +0200 Reply-To: richard.van.ouwerkerk@earthling.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Richard C. van Ouwerkerk" Organization: Planet Internet Subject: Ulee's gold MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Like to see this movie as soon as it gets to Holland, but I cannot forget "Ho melissokomos" (the beekeeper), a Gree-Italian coproduction with the late Marcello Mastroianni as the beekeeper in his travelling truck with all the hives on it. -- Richard C. van Ouwerkerk MD richardc@pi.net PE1KFM anaesthesiologist tel +31 20 4160219 Geerdinkhof 529 tam/fax: +31 20 4160254 1103 RH AMSTERDAM ZUIDOOST digital (ISDN) +31 20 4160228 The Netherlands http://home.pi.net/~richardc Yea, from the table of my memory I'll wipe away all trivial fond records. Hamlet (Act I, Sc. 5, Line 98) ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 15:16:22 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Frank & Phronsie Humphrey Subject: Re: Feeding MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ---------- > From: Ross M > To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU > Subject: Re: Feeding > Date: Thursday, June 26, 1997 11:59 AM > > Greetings from Canada: > > A couple of weeks ago (3) I installed a 4 frame Nuc into a new hive and have > been feeding 1 to 1 sugar every couple of days with a top feeder in the hive. > I have just placed the second brood hive on and am still feeding so the bees > can pull out the > wax. > > I don't plan on taking any honey off this year. > > My question: > > Would it bee ok to keep feeding them untill they have finished "pulling the > wax" > of should I stop feeding them ? > > Thanking you in advance Feed them as long as they will take it. When they get enough nectar to sustain they they will stop taking the syrup. Frank & Phronsie Humphrey beekeepr@cdc.net ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 15:30:49 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Frank & Phronsie Humphrey Subject: Re burr comb on queen excluders MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I use an electric heat gun that is designed for stripping paint. I just spread some aluminum foil on my work table put the queen excluder on top, turn the heat up, pull the trigger and point at the burr comb. Use caution here. the gun will get the wax hot enough to ignite. I move the gun back and forth and let the wax melt off onto the foil. When I have cleaned them all I roll up the aluminum foil and put it in the freezer. When it is frozen it is very easy to remove from the foil. What you have can now be put in the wax melter. the heat gun can be purchased at Sears, Walmart K-mart or most hardware stores. Frank & Phronsie Humphrey beekeepr@cdc.net ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 17:31:00 PDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: paul desilets Subject: Re: Backsavers In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; X-MAPIextension=".TXT" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Absolutely the greatest! We (my wife and I) routinely move hives onto and off of cranberry bogs for our local growers. Easy to carry even with 3 or 4 honey supers on. We use bee hive straps similar to those advertised in Bee Culture also. Makes life easy ---------- > > Has anyone used the Backsaver hive lifting device that's been advertised in > Bee Culture? If so how do you like it? Or does anyone have any other tricks > or tips to make lifting hive bodies and supers easier? Thanks. > Susan, a new beekeeper who does not want to have a bad back > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 18:46:42 -0400 Reply-To: rosuga@epix.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Rob Gauthier Organization: Rosuga Inc Subject: Re: burr comb on queen excluders MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Newbee ? How do you separate the honey from the wax? thank you Rob Blaine S Nay wrote: > >can i impose on the collective ideas of u all...... to find out a > quick > & > >efficient way to get rid of the burr comb that is clogging up between > > >the bars? > > I built a "solar wax extractor". It's essentially two of hive boddies > > with a sheet of clear plexiglass (glass may break from temperature > changes) on top and an old queen excluder between the hive bodies. I > had > a stainless steel pan made to hust fit the inside dimensions of the > bottom hive body. > > When I have some wax (from old frames, cappings, burr-comb, etc) that > I > want to recover, I place it in the upper hive body on top of the old > queen excluder. The hot sun quickly melts the wax into the pan. The > dead bees and other sludge stays on top on the excluder. From > time-to-time, I replace the pan with some newspapers, invert the queen > > excluder. The hot sun loosens the gunk to fall onto the newspaper. > The > resulting lump works nicely to start a fire in the fireplace. > > The point of all this? One could put queen excluders with burr comb > into > such a device to clean them up. O'l Mr. Sol puts out a lot of heat, > but > not enough to damage equipment or wax. > > Blaine S Nay; Anchorage, Alaska > b.nay@juno.com > http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/B_Nay > ================================================================== ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 19:17:37 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Kirk Jones Subject: Re: HELP...Bee Beard Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >I helped set bee beard's up before. They are pretty easy to do. Go into a >colony, find the queen, and put her to the side. Next shake about 1-2lbs. >of bees into a package and leave them in a cool shaded spot for 12-24 h. >When your ready to form the bee beard you will either need a queen in a cage >or some of the queen's mandibular pheromone. Tie either around the neck of >the person to be bearded. The person's ears and nostrils should be plugged >with cotton to avoid bees crawlsing in either of those holes. Next, lightly >rub insect repellent around the eye and mouth areas. If the person has a >lot of hair on their head, it should be tied up and put into a hat. When >everything has been prepared, bring the package over, shake the bees gently >onto some cardboard. Hold the cardboard right up near the person's neck, >and the bees will begin running towards the queen. You can tilt the >cardboard to get the bees onto the neck and face quicker, but done push >things too much. Once all the bees are of you should have something that >looks like a beard (mine looked like a messy goh-tee). I can't quite >remember how to get the bees off. Perhaps the queen (we used pheromone) is >taken off first, and then person with the beard stands over a box and takes >a great big hard jump up and down in the air. Most of the bees will drop >off the beard and into the box. Jump backwards for 10-15 meters until most >of the bees are off. Put the bees back in the colony they came from. > >If you are going to do this for a big event go through a dry run. Make sure >everyone knows what to do well ahead of time. Don't forget to take pictures >and enjoy the feat. > >At 07:21 AM 6/22/97 -0400, you wrote: >>Hi, I wrote earlier about our St. Ambrose Summer Celebration and want to >>thank all of those who shared information about St Ambrose. I've got my >>husband talked into doing a bee beard that day. Is there anyone out there >>who has actual experience with the best way to perform this feat. We could >>use some tips. Happy Summer Soltice everyone! Sharon >> >>*Kirk Jones/ Sleeping Bear Apiaries /971 S. Pioneer Rd./Beulah,MI 49617 >>*Sharon Jones/ BeeDazzled Candleworks /6289 River Rd./ Benzonia, MI 49616 >> e-mail b-man@aliens.com >> >> >*********************************** >** Adony P. Melathopoulos ********* >*** Center for Pest Management **** >**** Simon Fraser University ****** >***** Burnaby, British Columbia *** >****** Canada, V5A-1S6 ************ >*********************************** > >Tel : (604) 291-4163 >Fax : (604) 291-3496 >e-mail : melathop@sfu.ca > >"The pursuit of agriculture promotes the strength of the mind > as well as the body" > - Rev. John L. Blake, 1853 Thanks for the tips. I will be doing the demo on Sat. for my wife's St. Ambrose day fest. *Kirk Jones/ Sleeping Bear Apiaries /971 S. Pioneer Rd./Beulah,MI 49617 *Sharon Jones/ BeeDazzled Candleworks /6289 River Rd./ Benzonia, MI 49616 e-mail b-man@aliens.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 27 Jun 1997 00:53:09 +0200 Reply-To: patbrenn@mygale.org Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Patrick Brenneur Subject: Re: Backsaver MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Aaron Morris wrote: >=20 > I saw the Backsaver at ABF in January, and purchased one. So far I > haven't used it. The guy who markets it admits in the literature that > it is at first awkward to use and get used to. However, the literature > goes on to say that you must force yourself to get used to it and after > you do you will wonder how you ever got along without it. >=20 > It is a well made, simple tool and as the supers get heavier I keep > asking myself why I'm not using it. The higher your stacks get (the > more supers you have stacked) the less usable is the tool, but it will > be great for hefting the top brood chamber off the bottom. That was > the main reason I bought one - I can handle the honey supers (I use > medium supers for honey) but the brood chambers at this time of the yea= r > are more than I want to subject my back to. I built raised stands for > my hives so I wouldn't have to bend over as much, but I've discovered t= hat > the extra height of the stands is not so good when it comes to the > mechanics of the Backsaver and even more so with the Helvey hive > carrier which I also purchased (see last October(?) ABJ). I too am > concerned about my back. >=20 > If you do buy a Backsaver, a tip is to use it so that you push the > super away from the two feet of the tool. When invited to "Try it > out" I lifted the super and tried to set it down by going through > the feet to put the super on the other side. The marketer (I forget > his name) showed me the "proper" way which worked much better. > Whichever side of the hive you place the tool, use it to place the > supers on the other side. That is, if you put the Backsaver to the > left of the hive, use it to lift and set your supers to the right of > the hive. >=20 > One funny thing at the trade show was that few people paid attention to > the Backsaver display. Perhaps it was a macho thing - "REAL men don't > have to worry about their backs!". However, the mechanics of the tool > are sound and as the literature says, learn to use the tool and you'll > wonder how you ever lived without it. >=20 > "Give me a lever big enough and a place to stand and I can > move the earth!" - Archimedies. >=20 > Aaron Morris - I think, therefore I bee! hi Do you know if the product is imported here in France? It would surely help lot of people carrying hives.=20 Does any body have more info about the Backsaver ? --=20 _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ Patrick Brenneur | "Si l'abeille venait =E0 disparaitre, | patbrenn@mygale.org | la mort de l'humanit=E9e | http://www.mygale.org/01/patbrenn/ | surviendrait rapidement..." R. Einstein. | - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 21:03:32 -0400 Reply-To: dronebee@norfolk.infi.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "\\Dr. Pedro P. Rodrifuez" Organization: Independent non-profit research Subject: Mineral oil treatment update MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Dear Friends: I received a question regarding my earlier post on this subject. I have decided to post my answer to the general list thinking that perhaps others may have similar doubts. My intention was/is to state that: After one year using FOOD GRADE MINERAL OIL for the treatment of bee mites, I continue to observe that mineral oil is effective for the treatment of Varroa bee mites. And yes, I have been using the same bee equipment. Nothing has change in my procedure, except for a slight increment in mineral oil. And yes, Food Grade Mineral Oil has continued to be observed as non toxic to honey bees unless bees happen to become soaked by the oil (just like I explained originally). If I may add, judging from the state of the frames at this time, I think that those of you who continue to use the mineral oil procedure will agree that an additional bonus is in the offing. It is my opinion that the oil will contribute to the preservation of the frames. Please do not hesitate to continue sending me your questions and your input regarding your observations. Best regards. Dr. Rodriguez ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 22:46:48 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Roy Nettlebeck Subject: Re: Queen cells... In-Reply-To: <199706171600.MAA12219@chardonnay.niagara.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Tue, 17 Jun 1997, Ian Watson wrote: > Hello all > > Here's a conundrum for you. At least it appears to be one to me.... > I was looking through a colony that I got about a week or so ago as a > swarm. So far only 4 frames have brood in them. On one frame I saw at > least 4 Queen cells. All but one were at or near the bottom of the frame, > and the other was half way up. So they should be considered Swarm Cells; > but why would a very recent swarm, swarm again, especially when there is a > lot of room in the colony and 6 frames not even drawn out yet? > > Any thoughts? > Hi Ian, Swarming has many trigers. Not just conjestion in the brood nest. Genetics will drive some bees to swarm with very few bees and brood in the hive. African bees have shown that tendency to swarm up to 10 times in a year. I was over at a beekeepers place last night looking over a problem of package bees of this year swarming with 1 1/2 deep boxs. The bottem boxs were too full. Brood and honey wall to wall. Some drone brood was on the bottem bars that did get in the way of proper air flow in the hive. I feel that some pathogens will cause bees to swarm.I have seen bees swarm with sick bees left behind. The bees were not checked for viruses.The bees left behind did die. That is counter to most litature. I think there are plenty of , what if's when it comes to swarming. For the Honey Bee to be around for so long it needs a very complex set of genetic controls to take on and survives millions of years of changes on this earth. The truth is, one line answers don't fit the Honey Bee.We learn more evry day. God did a great job and when he says, Honey is good and pure.We should be careful in what we put in a hive , for we can change there behavior with chemicals and by our breeding. Best Regards Roy ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 27 Jun 1997 02:12:14 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Sid Pullinger Subject: Burr comb and cleaning equipment MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Re the present threads on burr comb on excluders and cleaning or not cleaning extracting equipment. = Although the amount of burr comb varies from stock to stock, most of it i= s due to incorrect spacing. The space which the bees will respect has been= known since the days of Langstroth and well made hives allow approximatel= y one quarter of an inch between top bars and the wire of the excluder and another quarter inch between wire and the bottom bars of the super. If these gaps are too big or too small then you will get excessive burr comb= =2E = The same gap is necessary between supers. Frames are made to be a quarte= r inch less deep than the box they are in and that space can be either top = or bottom. Generally it is at the top. Clearly mixing the two arrangements= will result in no gap or a double gap with consequent glueing up or burr comb. I have seen excluders which have no frame, frame on both sides and= frame on one side. Only the last one is suitable for a properly designed= hive. Scraping an excluder to clean it is rather risky. I would suggest having= a solar extractor big enough to take excluders. If you keep one or two excluders spare as replacements a day in the solar will clean it perfectl= y. Moreover it will sterilise it also ready for it to go on another hive. Mentioning sterilising leads me to another comment. I am surprised at th= e number of letter writers who appear to feed honey from one stock back to others. Disease (AFB, EFB, Chalk, Nosema, etc) is always lurking just do= wn the road. Few beekeepers can discover it in its early stages and feeding= honey indiscriminately is a sure way to spread it. With regard to leaving extracting equipment honey covered over a period i= t would be very unwise in my part of the world and yours too unless the atmosphere is very dry. Here, winter and summer, the relative humidity i= s such that exposed honey will take in water. Air- born yeasts,always present, will set up fermentation, hardly desirable for the next batch of= extracting. Honey is acidic, fermentation will increase the acidity. = Unless all your equipment is stainless steel or food grade plastic this could cause a reaction. Incidentally, I see that hot water is recommended for cleaning. Cold or warm water yes, hot no. It will melt any wax and propolis present, which= will then be almost impossible to remove. Regards = = Sid P. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 27 Jun 1997 02:12:19 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Sid Pullinger Subject: Aggression MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 <<<>>>> Being old and somewhat decrepit my memory is not what it was. I think I mentioned some time ago certain experiments carried out in the sixties. = Briefly, stocks which were aggressive had their queens removed and replac= ed with docile ones. Within two days the stocks were docile. Queens were removed from docile colonies and replaced with queens from aggressive one= s. Within two days the docile bees became aggressive. In a third experiment= queens from aggressive stocks were placed in cages in docile stocks which= immediately showed bad temper. The conclusion was that the aggression wa= s not genetic but due to some physical fault in the queens' pheromones. I had the opportunity a few weeks ago to try this for myself. A friend h= ad a stock so aggressive life became unbearable for his family who could not= enter the garden without being dive bombed and stung although the hives were quite distant. I invited him to bring the bees to me and I would requeen them with a quiet queen of my own. Because of the weight he spli= t the stock into two hives and brought them over one evening. I placed the= m right next to two of my strong stocks. The result next day was dramatic.= = Whereas normally I could walk among my hives with no protection this time= the bees came to meet me and their attitude was not friendly. I wanted t= o inspect one of my stocks but within minutes I was surrounded by angry bee= s and before I could close down I had received some twenty stings on my hands. I left the bees alone for two days then during the afternoon with= bees flying well I moved the two hives to other places in the apiary (a large one with some eighteen hives). This meant all the fliers came back= and entered my hives. As they carried nectar or pollen they were well received. Two days later I moved the hives again, thus losing another bat= ch of fliers, leaving me with two very weak stocks of young bees. These wer= e much less aggressive and it was easy to find the queen and kill her and destroy the emergency cells in the other half. The bees and combs were then placed over newspaper on one of my stocks. According to those experiments all would be peaceful after two days and it was so. No aggression anywhere in the apiary and I was able to requeen the stock wit= h no reaction at all. = Finding the queen in a strong aggressive stock is very difficult and it i= s necessary to reduce the number of bees in order to do so. Splitting up t= he stock and moving the parts around soon reduces them to the size of nuclei= , making the task easy. = One cannot draw conclusions from a single example but what I did was quit= e easy and all aggression had gone within a few days. Perhaps others faced= with this situation might try it out and report back. Sid P. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 27 Jun 1997 06:59:56 +0000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Richard Drutchas Organization: Bee Haven Honey Subject: cell size MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit If a smaller cell size discourages varroa how come the africanized bees with its smaller cells cant handle the mites? ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 27 Jun 1997 07:53:08 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Aaron Morris Subject: Hive Carriers (So Far, Backsaver and Helvey Hive Carrier) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT > > Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 17:31:00 PDT > From: paul desilets > Subject: Re: Backsavers > > Absolutely the greatest! We (my wife and I) routinely move hives > onto and off of cranberry bogs for our local growers. Easy to carry > even with 3 or 4 honey supers on. We use bee hive straps similar to > those advertised in Bee Culture also. Makes life easy > I'm interested in how you use the Backsaver to move hives. My impression of the tool was that it is a lever to pick supers or hive bodies up and put them down within the radius of the lever and attached chain. How do you use them to move hives greater distances? My Backsaver cost me about $75 (shipped from West Virginia to New York). It's advertised in Bee Culture (which I don't have in my office right now). If anyone has an address, please post it. Otherwise I will try to remember to do so Monday. > Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 11:41:00 EDT > From: Leigh Wiley > Subject: Backsaver > > Does anyone have info or experience with the Helvey Hive carrier? Regarding the Helvey Hive Carrier: it is like a poor man's fork lift with no hydraulics. To help understand how it works, make a fist and then extend both your index and pinky fingers. Now, keeping both fingers straight, bend your wrist up and down. That will give you the idea of the HHC's lifting ability. Further, imagine tires mounted on both sides of your wrist with two long handles sticking straight up perpendicularly from your wrist. With this in mind, the HHC works by fitting the standard Dadant hive body between your fingers, pulling back on the handles (flex your wrist) to lift the hive (the fulcrum of the lever is the wheels of carrier). With the hive lifted thusly you can wheel it around with great ease. As Paul noted with the Backsaver, hive straps are ideal to keep the hive assembled during transit. I like my Helvey Hive Carrier VERY MUCH! Wish I had purchased it 20 years ago. It's a great tool for moving hives. I also like it for wheeling in empty supers to hives located in spots to which I cannot drive and it's ABSOLUTELY FANTASTIC for wheeling out the full ones! No more wheel- barrow for this dude! However, the HHC is not without it's shortfalls. It's designed for standard Dadant hives sitting atop Dadant stands. If your hives are higher (or lower) the lifts are not at the correct height for proper lifting. The lifts can be adjusted, but not easily. I also have a spacing problem with telescoping covers and the handles of the carrier - migratory covers might be better but I don't use them so I can't really say. The HHC cost a little over $300 (shipped from California to New York) and is designed and marketed by: Albert D. Helvey PO Box 1706 Lodi, California 95241 There are other carriers on the market. Anyone care to comment? Aaron Morris - I think, therefore I bee! ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 27 Jun 1997 07:58:28 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Eric Abell Subject: Re: Honey in Extractor Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 02:54 PM 24/06/97 -0400, you wrote: >In a message dated 97-06-24 14:50:04 EDT, you write: > ><< > If I am going to be using my 4 frame extractor on and off over the next 3 > months during this year's season, is it necessary to wash out an extractor > after each session of extracting? > >> >I guess it depends upon what you want a quality product or garbage. > >However I am small time also and I rinse the extractor with hot water and use >the rinse water to also wash most of the honey from my cappings and this gets >fed back to one of my hives (usually a hived swarm) who then draw me out some >beautifull new comb. > This is a pretty strong response to a good question. What is left in the extractor? - honey. If you do not allow the honey to attract 'bugs' then it is just fine to leave it in. I know beekeepers who do not wash any of their extracting equipment after the season, claiming that it is now protected from rusting. I don't think there is anything wrong with this, but it does look ugly. The only problem with leaving the extractor unwashed is that the honey coating will then be crystallized making it more difficult to remove later. It will be much easier to rinse off liquid honey. Eric Eric Abell Gibbons, Alberta Canada T0A 1N0 Ph/fax (403) 998 3143 eabell@compusmart.ab.ca ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 27 Jun 1997 10:34:15 +0000 Reply-To: tvf@umich.edu Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "T.V. Fischer" Organization: University of Michigan Subject: Re: cell size MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Richard Drutchas wrote: > > If a smaller cell size discourages varroa how come the africanized bees > with its smaller cells cant handle the mites? I believe that experience has shown that Africanized bees are much more able to tolerate varroa mites than are European races. I've heard that this was one of the observations that led to the thinking that cell size might be important in a colony's varroa tolerance. Ted Fischer Dexter, Michigan USA ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 27 Jun 1997 10:30:03 -0700 Reply-To: snielsen@orednet.org Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Susan L. Nielsen" Subject: Re: Ulee's gold I just learned that Peter Fonda learned to handle bees honestly. His dad, Henry, kept bees. Susan Susan Nielsen | Beehive: If you build it, snielsen@orednet.org | they will comb. -- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 27 Jun 1997 14:29:00 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: PondSite Subject: Re: Honey in Extractor MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I have been reading all the pro and con of the washing of the honey extractor and have not seen anything about what I do, and now Im concerned. Im just a small timer, and only have a two frame extractor, so after I was finished for the week, I just left the lid open and the bees came and cleaned everything up just fine. I then only had to rinse things off. Anyone see a problem with this. WALT in S.C. pondsite@barnwellsc ---------- > From: Eric Abell > To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU > Subject: Re: Honey in Extractor > Date: Friday, June 27, 1997 9:58 AM > > At 02:54 PM 24/06/97 -0400, you wrote: > >In a message dated 97-06-24 14:50:04 EDT, you write: > > > ><< > > If I am going to be using my 4 frame extractor on and off over the next 3 > > months during this year's season, is it necessary to wash out an extractor > > after each session of extracting? > > >> > >I guess it depends upon what you want a quality product or garbage. > > > >However I am small time also and I rinse the extractor with hot water and use > >the rinse water to also wash most of the honey from my cappings and this gets > >fed back to one of my hives (usually a hived swarm) who then draw me out some > >beautifull new comb. > > > This is a pretty strong response to a good question. What is left in the > extractor? - honey. If you do not allow the honey to attract 'bugs' then it > is just fine to leave it in. I know beekeepers who do not wash any of their > extracting equipment after the season, claiming that it is now protected > from rusting. I don't think there is anything wrong with this, but it does > look ugly. > > The only problem with leaving the extractor unwashed is that the honey > coating will then be crystallized making it more difficult to remove later. > It will be much easier to rinse off liquid honey. > > Eric > > Eric Abell > Gibbons, Alberta Canada T0A 1N0 > Ph/fax (403) 998 3143 > eabell@compusmart.ab.ca ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 27 Jun 1997 17:31:07 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "A.S. Chesnick" Subject: Re: Washing Extractors MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit W. G. Miller wrote: > > My practice is to wash out the extractor and uncapping tray if they are going > to sit idle for more than a day or so. > > I have found that in the humid summer Maryland climate, honey will absorb > moisture and ferment surprisingly quickly if it is left with a lot of open > surface. I also have come to fetch my not-yet-cleaned uncapping tray and > found in the honey a candied mouse. That taught me to clean up after each > day's extracting. > > W. G. Miller > Gaithersburg, MD Other insects can get in there and spread diesiese and pollen from the bees' legs may get in there and spoil the taste of the honey. Ian Chesnick 8 Champion tr. Fairfield, PA 17320 {717} 642-8888 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 28 Jun 1997 00:57:20 +0200 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Kuyckx Maurice Subject: Mineral Oil Treatment Update Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Good Evening all over the World. More Informations about Mineral Oil on " Net Search" about 3.876 Sites.Good Luck.Greetings from Belgium. Sig. Maurice. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 27 Jun 1997 22:36:18 -0400 Reply-To: dronebee@norfolk.infi.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "\\Dr. Pedro P. Rodrifuez" Organization: Independent non-profit research Subject: Re: cell size MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Richard Drutchas wrote: Dear Friends: Good evening. I promised myself that I would not make comments regarding controversial themes but I am inclined to disobey my own restrictions on a subject which I consider as important as Varroa mites. The following comment is very significant to those of you who might be performing the "100 brood cell count!" Varroa mites have become my primary subject in apiculture since I saw the first mite in 1983. I have seen mites on cells of very tiny bees (the smallest cells I have ever seen) and I have seen mites on very large drone cells. When I do larval cell counts I purposely select equal amounts of cells from worker and drone brood. I find Varroa mites in drone cells as well as in worker brood cells. I have found worker cell after cell with Varroa mites when there are no drone brood cells. I am beginning to wonder if drone cells get more "visits" by the Varroa mites due to a logistical relationship; since the drone larvae require more feeding visits than worker larvae their ratio of exposure becomes that much greater. Unfortunately, the same bees that feed drone larvae also feed worker larvae making worker larvae equally susceptible. We must bear in mind that the "nurse" bee duty falls on the youngest of the colony, precisely those on which the newly born mites ride to the surface. Varroa mites are where their host takes them! Please accept that as my theory. I am not disputing anyone else's therories. Best regards. Dr. Rodriguez ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 27 Jun 1997 23:37:03 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Bill Fernihough Subject: Re: Feeding In-Reply-To: <970626115741_339788938@emout08.mail.aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I would suggest you feed the as long as they will take it. When nectar is plentiful and available in your area, they will likely stop taking the feed, and then you can stop feeding them. When the nectar supply dries up they will start on feed again likely. Make sure you are medicating the feed, as long as you are sure you won't be eating any honey this year. Other wise, don't medicate. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 28 Jun 1997 07:21:56 +0000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Richard Drutchas Organization: Bee Haven Honey Subject: cell size MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Early on I was hearing that AHB was more tolerant to varroa now Im hearing that its varroa that is holding AHB back in southern Texas. How about it is varroa killing feral AHB in Brazil? ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 28 Jun 1997 21:28:02 +0900 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: j h & e mcadam Subject: Re: Hive Carriers Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" We use a rigid frame attachment with two forks at the base manufactured by an Australian engineering firm,Parker Engineering. This is used in conjunction with a hydraulic lifting crane manufactured for farmers. We can lift hives 3 or 4 boxes high and position them on the truck with no manual lifting required. The equipment can be operated by one person. When putting hives down it is necessary to choose reasonably flat ground. The cost of the hydraulic crane was $2000 Australian and the frame, if I remember correctly, about $110 Australian. The crane has sufficient capacity to lift full 44 gallon drums of honey. When putting hives down we put down the hives in groups of 3 before moving the truck a little further for the next group. So far we have not discovered any snakes under the hives when we pick them up! Betty McAdam HOG BAY APIARY Penneshaw, Kangaroo Island j.h. & e. mcadam Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: j h & e mcadam Subject: Re: burr comb on queen excluders Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" In respect of Garth Cambray's comment on the bees liking the extra space in the lid so that mats may be a bad idea, perhaps this is the reason of ensuring there is a margin of space so bees can move into the lid. I assume they sometimes use the lid to draw cooler air through the hive as sometimes I lift the lid and find a mass of bees on top of the hive mat. These are likely to be highly productive hives. I visit hives at least once a month between August and the end of May and when a honey flow is on the hive may have added burr comb above the frames if there is no mat, making it more difficult to open and more difficult to move the bees off the frames. With a hive mat, even with a box overflowing with bees it is easy to lift off the mat and place it near the entrance. You can then start working the hive with minimum attention from the bees. Betty McAdam HOG BAY APIARY Penneshaw, Kangaroo Island j.h. & e. mcadam Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Andy Nachbaur Organization: WILD BEE'S BBS (209) 826-8107 LOS BANOS, CA Subject: Plastic foundation MG>From: Mark Goodwin >Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 14:10:07 +1200 >Subject: Plastic foundation >Organization: HortResearch,Ruakura,NZ MG>Does anyone have a reference for a scientific paper comparing the >performance of plastic foundation and wax foundation. Hello Mark, I am sure that there are some and hope someone will forward them to you. But from experience in beekeeping testing, and most beekeepers this area use rigid plastic foundations not because it is more better for the bees but because it is stronger and holds up well with mechanical uncapping machines and very fast radial extractors, and is not labor intensive to install in the wooden frames. Anyway in beekeeper field testing the bees always preferred wax foundation over wax covered plastic film foundations, or rigid plastic foundations with or without bees wax coatings. All one has to do is put on foundation during a honey flow with the wax foundations, and the plastic together to see the difference. If one were to use what is most acceptable by the bees we would use foundations made of waxes other then beeswax which because of lower melting points possible are drawn out much faster and make wonderful combs, BUT we don't do this here in the USA because of the fear of adulteration of all beeswax that in time could lower the price of beeswax to that of the once cheep petrol chemical waxes that were once waste products of the petrol industry and are no longer so cheep. I suspect we are in todays world being a little conservative, but then we are beekeepers pure in heart, our honey, and have virgin beeswax and a well known history of letting the other guy profit from the rewards of our labors of love including the problems associated with it. One also could use drone size foundation as they will draw these out by the super full in the spring on very little honey flow and the honey extracts faster and cleaner from the bigger cells. Drone combs that is available for the queen to lay in will be used and good brood combs will not be changed by the bees to rear drones. (Not a problem with hard plastic combs.) Also varroa testing and trapping is said to be possible with drone combs. I can not say this part is all that true with full extracting supers of drone combs because even though the queen will lay in them during the honey flow if not restricted by excluders or the intensity of the flow I believe the mites do better in the warmer central brood area and don't always use the drone brood in the supers as I have found it more easy to find low levels of varroa mites in drone brood in the normal brood area and the drone brace combs the bees will build between the brood chamber and supers then in the honey supers of drone combs. If you want to have extra long queen cell and not the nubbins that come with hard plastic cell cups and bees wax machine made cell cups, make your own and add *Mobil Wax. They can be so long you may have trouble using them as they will be attached at the bottom of the next cell bar or to whatever is handy. Any way some of the local queen breeders this area use all plastic queen cell cups and produce small cells which appear to produce very nice queens when fully mated. Again because it is cost effective and a labor saving thing to do, none use anything other then bees wax for their cell cups or foundation as far as they know. ttul, the OLd Drone Los Banos, California (c) Permission is granted to freely copy this document in any form, or to print for any use. (w)Opinions are not necessarily facts. Use at own risk. --- ~ QMPro 1.53 ~ Un Dia Tal Vez! (One Day Maybe) ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 23:39:00 GMT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Andy Nachbaur Organization: WILD BEE'S BBS (209) 826-8107 LOS BANOS, CA Subject: Aggressive Bees EC>From: Ed Costanza >Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 14:54:44 -0400 >Subject: Aggressive Bees EC>What can you do to make an excessively aggressive hive of bees more docile? > Out of 15 hives of bees and 30 years of keeping bees I can never remember a >hive so aggressive. >Edgewood, NM (30 miles east of Albuquerque) Hi ED, WOW it must be a HOT one for sure as the bees in New Mexico are well know for their temperament in certain areas. Anyway for those individual hives that are too hot to handle you should KILL the queen and replace her with one from a different stock, like a mail order queen if possible from California of course or the South. I would for sure shop outside of my normal channels to get in some new blood other then your own. This is the easiest advice to give but as a beekeeper who has studied beekeepers for a lifetime it is not always the one that is followed as many of us beekeepers share one gene in common and its called "WNWN", (waste not want not), and more times then not we would spend much time, effort, and money on our bees before we would kill them no matter what the problem, disease, pests or predators. And its the same the world over no matter what is advertised by government PR persons. I would guess thats why there are so may different confusing solutions to every apiary problem. I try to say go with what works for you and thats what I try to write about. I have experienced these hot individual hives that can make a bad hair day seem tame by comparison and have found that sometimes it is almost impossible to fine that queen because the bees themselves are not only on the tooth but are very flighty or nervous, even to the queen who will run and hide and I have even seen them take wing from the corner of the box as I closed in for the kill after looking for her on every frame, and I have even found them under the hive at least once. I also would advise that she or anyone like here be killed on sight as it always seems coming back the 2nd time she is always harder to find if not impossible at times and no matter what the color or flavor of that bee hive if a few individual hives are impossible to work they are seldom worth the effort. SO if possible plan ahead and have a small nuc with an established queen to introduce if you do find the nasty queen and can kill her, or you can take the aggressive hive and make several weak nucs from it and in a few days add new queens to the parts that have started cells and maybe get lucky and find the queen or queens in the one that has not started cells. OR in time this queen will fail and be replaced by here own daughter and may or may not bee as aggressive, normally not as aggressive in commercial yard situations but it may be a good idea to not wait as these queens seem to out last the best of the rest as it seems that aggressive behaviour is coupled with longevity, or better stated they are the survivors. I know one beekeeper in the SW that has confirmed "Tex-Mex, Killer, Afro," bees and takes advantage of them by making all his increase from them as they are, he says, not only some times, but not always, more aggressive then his normally aggressive bees and better at brood rearing and will swarm out if not divided early and often. He uses cells he rears from his and others stock of dark Italian type bees and is satisfied with the results. He also kills the queens from the most aggressive hives without regards to race or preference when they can be found. Good Hunting, the OLd Drone (c) Permission is granted to freely copy this document in any form, or to print for any use. (w)Opinions are not necessarily facts. Use at own risk. --- ~ QMPro 1.53 ~ http://194.112.46.22/public/default.htm (Amigabee BBS) ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 28 Jun 1997 07:33:33 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Eric Abell Subject: Re: Feeding Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" This message, and many others, asks for some specific suggestions. Some conditions may be general but it is always wise to include some clues as to your location. After all, Canada has a variety of climates and conditions. I suspect that if your location, and that of others, was indicated, you would get more responses and those would be appropriate to your area. Eric At 11:59 AM 26/06/97 -0400, you wrote: >Greetings from Canada: > >A couple of weeks ago (3) I installed a 4 frame Nuc into a new hive and have >been feeding 1 to 1 sugar every couple of days with a top feeder in the hive. >I have just placed the second brood hive on and am still feeding so the bees >can pull out the >wax. > >I don't plan on taking any honey off this year. > >My question: > >Would it bee ok to keep feeding them untill they have finished "pulling the >wax" >of should I stop feeding them ? > >Thanking you in advance > > Eric Abell Gibbons, Alberta Canada T0A 1N0 Ph/fax (403) 998 3143 eabell@compusmart.ab.ca ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 28 Jun 1997 10:58:46 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Wendy l Evensen Subject: Re: cosmetic and other recipes for hive produce Hello everyone, My name is Wendy, and I've been reading your very interesting letters regarding bee's for about a month. I refuse to use the word "lurking" it sounds evil, so let's just call me a shadow sitter. I usually have nothing to add as I know absolutely nothing about beekeeping, but I am learning, thanks to all your information. My primary interest now is in using beeswax in hand creams, lotions, soaps, and home uses. Paul had asked a short time ago about recipes, and I said to myself, "Self! Now you can add something. Carpe Diem!" Here is a wood polish recipe which I must confess I haven't made, but it is on the drawing board. It came from a book entitled "Natural Fragrances: Outdoor Scents For Indoor Uses" by Gail Duff (Storey Communications, $14.95 if you are interested) 2 oz. beeswax, grated 2 oz. white wax granules 4 fl. oz. turpentine 60 sweet cicely seeds, finely chopped and crushed Place ingredients in a bowl set in a pan half filled with water; simmer over low heat until waxes have melted. Pour mixture into a jar. When cold, cover and let set for a week. The seeds will sink to the bottom and the turpentine smell will diminish. I have more recipes, books and ideas. If I can be of a help let me know. I also manufacture and sell natural soaps, bath salts, shaving soaps in mugs, and herb-related gift object if anyone is interested.I am also in the market for high quality beeswax if anyone is in my area and would have some to sell. Hope this helps, Wendy Kernersville, NC Sadie Scarecrow's Herbal Garden ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 28 Jun 1997 09:29:51 -0600 Reply-To: allend@internode.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Allen Dick Organization: The Beekeepers Subject: Re: burr comb In-Reply-To: <14385791417409@systronix.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT > In respect of Garth Cambray's comment on the bees liking the extra space > in the lid so that mats may be a bad idea, perhaps this is the reason of > ensuring there is a margin of space so bees can move into the lid. I > assume they sometimes use the lid to draw cooler air through the hive as > sometimes I lift the lid and find a mass of bees on top of the hive mat. I assume then, that the hive mats of which you speak are smaller than the inside of the top of the super? What then are the dimensions of the supers you use and the mats? Allen ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 28 Jun 1997 13:33:00 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Robert A. Roach" Subject: Fair Display Materials MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello all, I am designing a bee display for the County Fair in August and I hope = some of you can tell me where to get some bee materials. I'd especially = like to find some paper bees, the kind that fold out like an accordion = to form a 3-dimensional bee that can be suspended from above. I have a = few but I don't know where to get more. Paper flowers are also desired, = but we can make those if need be. Any other bee arts and craft ideas = and suppliers of same are needed. =20 In the past I have had an observation hive (always popular), lots of bee = pictures, hive products and equipment and a display on the Africanized = honey bee. This year I'm thinking of a theme like "Insect Friends of = Agriculture" with emphasis on the honey bee. Bob Roach rroach@compuserve.com