========================================================================= Date: Thu, 28 Aug 1997 21:14:02 +1000 Reply-To: psrobert@gil.com.au Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Paul & Sandra Roberts Subject: Re: Andy Nachbar MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Its nice to get to know you Andy. I always read your comments and respect your bee wisdom and outlook on life. Regards Paul Roberts Brisbane Australia (5 hives & 2 years & loving it!!) ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 28 Aug 1997 22:07:09 -0700 Reply-To: snielsen@orednet.org Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Susan L. Nielsen" Subject: Re: bee fables Addressing me, C. says: >There was nothing written in that joke that was could have been found >offensive. You people were offended by your own imagination. To which I respond: Moi? Takes a little more than a suckling calf to offend me, I'm afraid. Something more like folks who got so modern-minded and PC they forgot how to smile. We are _so_ serious these days. Sheesh. Let's get back to bees. Susan >> What, will someone please explain, is so crude about a calf, >> apparently, sucking on some guy's fingers and toes? Anyone >> who has had this happen will know they can suck the life out >> of you. ;-) -- Susan Nielsen | Beehive: If you build it, snielsen@orednet.org | they will comb. -- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 28 Aug 1997 16:15:00 GMT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Andy Nachbaur Organization: WILD BEE'S BBS (209) 826-8107 LOS BANOS, CA Subject: European foulbrood in New Zealand? >From: "Thomas W. Culliney -- Dept. of Agriculture" .peacesat.hawaii.edu> >Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 16:39:38 -1000 >Subject: European foulbrood in New Zealand? >In a letter to the editor, published in the latest issue (August 1997) of >the American Bee Journal, the writer, John Iannuzzi, states that he was >informed by two New Zealand beekeepers that European foulbrood is found in >New Zealand. Can anyone confirm this? Hello Tom, YES, New Zealand beekeepers who have visited and worked for me in the past have said that they had "EFB" after they have seen it up close and personal in bees here in California. But since what we beekeepers call "EFB" may be a cocktail of problems it may be that those in New Zealand who say they don't have "EFB" are also right as they may not have the same "EFB" that we have. OR they may have political reasons as in the past it has also been said by NZ public relations/regulatory officials they don't have any bee diseases which is misleading at the least. Who to believe has always been a judgement call on motive. I personally believe any country that believes it gets it AFB from empty imported honey containers must also have EFB but then everything is in the eye of the bee holder so they say and in the USA it can be said that we do not have AFB in our feral honeybee populations with 99.99% confidence because it is a fact, but all old beekeepers know that at one time or another they have seen AFB in their hived honeybees. As you know the bee disease issue is a political issue between the governments of New Zealand and the United States because of the underhanded way our beekeeping regulatory officials in Maryland caved in to pressure from New Zealand and Canada for landing rights for honeybees in transit to Canada. I say underhanded because this was a 100% political movement without real concideration of the wishes of the electorate of the good state of Hawaii who have every right to expect better then what they got from their political leaders but they did not know about the "good old boy network" that still exhists between some in the beekeeping regulatory business extending worldwide or the connection between so called bee research in the USDA and our federal beekeeping regulatory system which is one and the same and that is the problem. With the criminal inditement of the former USDA Secertary of Agriculture it is clear that a few other minor burcrats in the USDA should also bee worried as the day of the free lunch and free trips for what ever purpose may be over as some of us see little difference in working for a Arkansas chicken plucker and some foreign government bee research project that has no benefit to US tax payers or US beekeepers. Top priority research by the USDA is regulatory in nature and one only has to have attend the last generation of national beekeeping meeting to have a grater knowledge of the annual changing USDA management system then beekeeping disease research. As USDA beekeeping research dies for lack of beekeeper interest and budget cuts some effort has been made by the USDA to show concern for beekeeper problems but I suspect the die has been cast and without some major changes, that I don't see coming, its too late and the Hawaii situation is one of those proverbial straws. ttul, the OLd Drone (c) Permission is granted to freely copy this document in any form, or to print for any use. (w)Opinions are not necessarily facts. Use at own risk. --- ~ QMPro 1.53 ~ SLMR 2.0 ~ A ounce of pretension = a pound of manure! ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Aug 1997 09:58:37 +0100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "THONE HUGO VE144 (240)9452" Subject: Re: bee fables In-Reply-To: <199708282127.AA14648@ednet1.orednet.org> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII I suggest to close this topic and to discuss bee matters. PS1 for Susan Nielsen : Would you like to suck my fingers and toes ...... ;-) PS2 for all others : Please accept my apologies if you feel offended by postscriptum 1. +++++ Hugo Thone (SE144) (\ {|||8- ALCATEL TELECOM (/ F.Wellesplein 1 B-2018 Antwerp do bee do bee do .... email : thoneh@btmaa.bel.alcatel.be phone : (32) 3 240 94 52 fax : (32) 3 240 99 50 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Aug 1997 11:23:24 GMT+0200 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Garth Organization: Rhodes University South Africa Subject: Bees: perfect society and bee breas Hi All I have not as yet worked out an easy way to reply to individual postings within Bee-l best of bee things without blocking and copying and deleting till I burn out the key, so will reply here: Why are beekeepers good people: They have as their role models bees, who within one hive are very co-operative and do things without direct benefit to themselves. EG a worker lives for no reason other than to help it's mother reproduce. (A bit like a nun going round the world and setting up missionaries so other people have better lives and more kids) Secondly bee Bread Pollen is very inert with an inert layer on the outside. This is yellow. Bee droppings are yellow. ie the pollen coat is probably not digested by the bees. Pollen germinates when it lands on a flower and sends out a pollen tubule. This also can happen in the human nose (leading to hayfever). When this happens the nutrients in the pollen are mobilised and injected into the flower or your nose. If the bee germinates the pollen it may extract the nutrients through the pore that opens in the pollen tubule. This would mean that bee bread would be a bit like malted barley used in brewing. Yeasts cannot use barley starch so we germinate the seeds so they get ready to start growing and produce enzymes that release all the stored proteins and carbohydrates in the seed. So, this would mean that bees may not be able to digest proteins very much at all, but instead use the pollens natural enzymes to do the job. This would make sense considering the huge variety in pollen proteins and how difficult it would be to get the enzymes into the particles. As a result bees would not be able to use ground up soya, but would be able to use brewers yeast, as their antimicrobial enzymes would digets the yeast releasing their nutrients? This is all complete conjecture, based on the fact that I am just at present studying the malting proccess and it seems similar to what I have seen bees doing. On the censorship thread: If it offends one, your defences against what bug you and what doesnt are not much good. Living in a higly offensive society (eg South Africa where one has about twenty five different cultures all with different ideas of what is offensive, learning to ignore is best. ) Keep well Garth --- Garth Cambray Kamdini Apiaries 15 Park Road Apis melifera capensis Grahamstown 800ml annual precipitation 6139 Eastern Cape South Africa Phone 27-0461-311663 3rd year Biochemistry/Microbiology Rhodes University In general, generalisations are bad. Interests: Flii's and Bees. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Aug 1997 06:15:16 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Peter Wilson Subject: Re: Teaching taxonomy beyond APIS... Comments: To: James P Parkman In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Thanks, I stand corrected. Peter wilson e mail pjwilson@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca On Thu, 28 Aug 1997, James P Parkman wrote: > Two corrections to P. Wilson's taxonomical classification of the honey > bee. 1) The bee family is spelled Apidae; 2) species names begin with a > lower case letter, e.g., mellifera rather than Mellifera. > > Regards, > Pat parkman > Univ. of Tennessee, Knoxville > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Aug 1997 21:51:31 +0900 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: j h & e mcadam Subject: Re: Colouring wax Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >I am interested in making bees wax candles from the wax rendered in my >solar wax melter. Unfortunately, I don't know how to colour the wax >(red, green, etc). Is there a standard reference for candle making that >would answer this question? Thanks for your help. I make moulded candles from the cappings wax and old comb wax that has been processed through a solar melter. There are a number of impurities in the first blocks and I scrape off any black bottom layers and remelt and then pour through a warm cloth (there is an artificial dish-cloth sold as "Chux" in Australia which serves the purpose admirably). I warm the cloth and a metal colander and then pour the melted wax through these into empty ice cream containers. The resultant wax is clean enough for candles and varies from primrose yellow through to old leather. You can also bleach wax by repeated cycles through a solar melter and dripping into water (preferably rain water). I do not apply any other foreign matter to the candles as my selling point is that they are made from natural beeswax. However there are special paints sold by makers of candle moulds - E.H. Thorne in England has a very good catalogue and you can order direct or check craft supply companies close to home. I see from the catalogue there are paints which are applied to the finished candle to highlight patterns. If you are making foundation with your beeswax and then rolling it into candles there are other options such as glitter and dipping paint. The address for E.H. Thorne (Beehives) Ltd. is Beehive Works, Wragby, Lincoln LN3 5LA - email thorne@dial.pipex.com - Web http://www.thorne.co.uk Have fun. Betty McAdam HOG BAY APIARY Penneshaw, Kangaroo Island j.h. & e. mcadam Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "[Carl Uhlman]" Subject: Re: bee fables In a message dated 97-08-26 19:45:20 EDT, you write: > Fella was in the market to buy some acreage. He found just what > he was looking for, but it was a little expensive. During an inspection > of the property, however, he found a hive of bees. He told the owner > that he was deathly afraid of bees, and there was no way he could > consider this piece of land. > > The landowner assured him that the bees were completely harmless, > but the buyer would have no part of it. Finally, the landowner made an > offer. The buyer would allow himself to be tied to a tree for an hour, > nude, under the nest. So sure of the friendliness of his bees was the > farmer that if ONE bee were to sting him, the farm would be his for > free. The buyer thought it over and decided it was worth the risk. > An hour later, the farmer walked out to the tree and saw the poor buyer > slumped over in his bindings. Fearing the worst, he ran up to him and > asked him if he had been stung. The city fella looked up and weakly > said, "No, but doesn't that calf have a mother?" > Thank you, I haven't laughed out loud at an email lately.... Everyone, keep the bee jokes coming..... ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 28 Aug 1997 21:41:50 -0300 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Eunice Wonnacott Subject: Re: Offensive (or not) postings (was bee fables) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Aaron: Thankyou for your response. I agree that "off color" jokes, when expected, have a very different impact than when slipped in under the guise of another type of fable. That is probably the real reason for the reaction. I ---------- Eunice > From: Aaron Morris > To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU > Subject: Offensive (or not) postings (was bee fables) > Date: Thursday, August 28, 1997 10:32 AM > > > > > It would not be the first time that I have been accused of not > > having a sense of humor, but this note offends the individual reader, > > as well as the BEE-L which maintains a very high level of > > respectability. > > Surely there is some form of editing which takes place? > > The List Server??? What do others think? > > > Actually, no - there is no editing/reviewing/censoring that takes place > on this list. It's an open forum free for all. Don't get me wrong, I'm > sorry you were offended, truely I am. However there are others who got > a chuckle out of the post and I suspect there are even a few who passed > the post on at the water cooler or in the coffee shop. It may be the > case that those who chuckled out number those who were offended or vice > versa. It simply is not fair to deny one group or another the right to > read (or not) something deemed inappropriate by the opposing camp. My > objection to the content of the post is that it came under the guise of > a fable, not as an off color joke. I expected a fable, what I read was > a joke that obviously was offensive to some. > > I doubt you saw the Drew Carey show last night, but the main character > was being sued for having posted an offensive (to some) cartoon on a > company memo. In his closing statement to the court he rambled on about > fear of offending this group or that group and how in this day and age > no one will can anything for fear of being held accountable to others' > morales. Drew's final colsing statement: "C'mon America, lighten up!". > > Again, I'm sorry you were offended. A hundred times, I'm sorry. But > I'm thankful I live in a society where I can review everything and > decide for myself. > > Respectfully submitted, > Aaron Morris ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 28 Aug 1997 21:45:22 -0300 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Eunice Wonnacott Subject: Re: Offensive (or not) postings (was bee fables) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit So do I. But what if one is not "looking" and still is offended? Especially if there is sincerely no intent to offend? Best answer, I guess, is not to comment. I will try to take this advice another time. Eunice ---------- > From: Frank & Phronsie Humphrey > To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU > Subject: Re: Offensive (or not) postings (was bee fables) > Date: Sunday, September 28, 1997 10:55 AM > > Back in the late sixties after leaving the military, I was paired with an > individual of a different race. He was a man that I immediately liked and > respected. I put my foot in my mouth one day and tried to apologize. He > immediately stopped me and said "If someone takes offense without > understanding intent, then they are the one with a problem". I believe > that if you look for something to be offended by, you will find it. > > My $.02 worth. > > Frank Humphrey > beekeepr@cdc.net > > > ---------- > > From: Aaron Morris > > To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU > > Subject: Offensive (or not) postings (was bee fables) > > Date: Thursday, August 28, 1997 9:32 AM > > > > > > > > It would not be the first time that I have been accused of not > > > having a sense of humor, but this note offends the individual reader, > > > as well as the BEE-L which maintains a very high level of > > > respectability. > > > Surely there is some form of editing which takes place? > > > The List Server??? What do others think? > > > > > Actually, no - there is no editing/reviewing/censoring that takes place > > on this list. It's an open forum free for all. Don't get me wrong, I'm > > sorry you were offended, truely I am. However there are others who got > > a chuckle out of the post and I suspect there are even a few who passed > > the post on at the water cooler or in the coffee shop. It may be the > > case that those who chuckled out number those who were offended or vice > > versa. It simply is not fair to deny one group or another the right to > > read (or not) something deemed inappropriate by the opposing camp. My > > objection to the content of the post is that it came under the guise of > > a fable, not as an off color joke. I expected a fable, what I read was > > a joke that obviously was offensive to some. > > > > I doubt you saw the Drew Carey show last night, but the main character > > was being sued for having posted an offensive (to some) cartoon on a > > company memo. In his closing statement to the court he rambled on about > > fear of offending this group or that group and how in this day and age > > no one will can anything for fear of being held accountable to others' > > morales. Drew's final colsing statement: "C'mon America, lighten up!". > > > > Again, I'm sorry you were offended. A hundred times, I'm sorry. But > > I'm thankful I live in a society where I can review everything and > > decide for myself. > > > > Respectfully submitted, > > Aaron Morris ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 28 Aug 1997 12:14:20 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Paul Basehore Subject: Re: Censorship Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Quite frankley thats why we have on and off switches on pc, radioes, tv's etc. so if we don't like what is on them we can turn the knob all the way to the left. WHEN CENSORSHIP THRIVES THE RIGHT TO FREE SPECH IS DEMINISHED ALONG WITH OTHER RIGHTS I HOLD DEAR!! ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Aug 1997 09:25:25 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Kirk Jones Subject: Re: Colouring wax Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >I am interested in making bees wax candles from the wax rendered in my >solar wax melter. Unfortunately, I don't know how to colour the wax >(red, green, etc). Is there a standard reference for candle making that >would answer this question? Thanks for your help. > >Rob Young Dear Rob, I have ben making hand dipped beeswax tapers for many years and I wonder what kind of candle you wish to make. I dip mine in the natural till size and then dip into a colored wax mixture which is dyed with candle dye I think it makes a better burning candle. If you are making a pillar you will have to experiment starting with a smaller amount of dye and increasing till you get the shade you want. The companies that sell dyes do specify amounts of wax to dye, but in my experience it takes more for beeswax because of the golden color then for parafin which is what they are reccomending about. I did dye some sheets a while back and just haven't gotten around to burning them yet. Hope this helps. Sharon *Kirk Jones/ Sleeping Bear Apiaries /971 S. Pioneer Rd./Beulah,MI 49617 *Sharon Jones/ BeeDazzled Candleworks /6289 River Rd./ Benzonia, MI 49616 e-mail b-man@aliens.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Aug 1997 09:52:18 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: bartlett Subject: Re: Censorship Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I love this thing!!!! THE INTERNET Never before have I been able to find out so much about just about everything there is. I am like a kid with a new toy ( and I'm old ). I read almost all the posts to the BEE-L. I take no offense to nothing ---- not the off color stories or some of the dumb things. ( no such thing as a dumb question, only dumb answers ) The world has never had such a way of disseminating so much information. Take full advantage of this. Don't let it go away in any shape, manner or form such as censorship. Things are coming fast and furious. Soak up what you can and enjoy. There is so much. But then I read all my Junk snail mail too. billy bee ---------- > From: Paul Basehore > To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU > Subject: Re: Censorship > Date: 28 ao{t 1997 13:14 > > Quite frankley thats why we have on and off switches on pc, radioes, tv's > etc. so if we don't like what is on them we can turn the knob all the way to > the left. > WHEN CENSORSHIP THRIVES THE RIGHT TO FREE SPECH IS DEMINISHED ALONG WITH > OTHER RIGHTS I HOLD DEAR!! ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Aug 1997 08:46:38 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Sandra Alvey Subject: Wasp Nest Hi Folks, My Dad asked me to find out what would tear up a wasp nest that was in the ground in his yard. What ever it was, was not afraid of the wasps because the nest was torn to shreds. My guess was a ground hog, skunk, something along those lines. Anyone have a more educated answer for my Dad. Sandy ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Aug 1997 11:17:29 +0000 Reply-To: tvf@umich.edu Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ted Fischer Organization: U. Michigan Dept. of Anatomy & Cell Biology Subject: Re: Wasp Nest MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sandra Alvey wrote: > > Hi Folks, > > My Dad asked me to find out what would tear up a wasp nest that was in > the ground in his yard. What ever it was, was not afraid of the wasps > because the nest was torn to shreds. My guess was a ground hog, > skunk, something along those lines. Anyone have a more educated > answer for my Dad. I would bet that your Dad is right about the skunk; probably it wasn't a ground hog (woodchuck) because they are vegetable eaters. Skunks have long been a problem for some of my hives. They come at night and scratch the hive fronts until bees run out, which then get swatted and eaten by the skunks. Since they seem to love these stinging insects, they probably have no trouble with ground dwelling yellow jackets either, which are likely the wasps you refer to. Incidentally, I now use carpet tacking strips to attach to the hive fronts and bottom board entrances of hives getting skunk attention. They have lots of small sharp tacks sticking through which are very effective in stopping the bee swatting activity of skunks. Ted Fischer Dexter, Michigan USA ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Aug 1997 10:29:41 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: David Kesler Subject: Observation hive ... to cover or not to cover? MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Are there any recommendations to cover an observation hive (three frames high) when it is not being observed? This hive is inside and lit from above with fluorescent lights. David Kesler kesler@rhodes.edu http://kesler.biology.rhodes.edu ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Aug 1997 11:31:45 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Provost,Norm (NFSPOST1)" Subject: Generic form of Fumadil-B? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Does anyone know a U.S. source for the generic form of Fumadil-B? I believe the generic name is Bicyclohexylammonium Fumagillin. I am a hobbiest simply looking to save a few bucks, and am looking for relatively small quantities. However, my local beekeeper association might be interested in bulk amounts if that's the only option. Mail order perhaps? Norm Provost Burrillville, Rhode Island ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Aug 1997 14:27:10 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ed Beary Subject: Re: Observation hive ... to cover or not to cover? MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Covering is better for the bees. Some may not be disturbed by the light and movement around the hive and others are. I have had some colonies leave an observation hive that was not covered. Ed Beary SUNY Geneseo ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Aug 1997 14:47:48 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Robert E Neely Subject: Re: Censorship Thanks Paul I could not have said it better. Bob In the Deep South ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Aug 1997 14:47:48 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Robert E Neely Subject: Re: Censorship Thanks Billy Bee I could not have said it better. Bob On Fri, 29 Aug 1997 09:52:18 -0400 bartlett writes: >I love this thing!!!! THE INTERNET Never before have I been able to >find out so much about just about everything there is. I am like a >kid >with a new toy ( and I'm old ). I read almost all the posts to the >BEE-L. I take no offense to nothing ---- not the off color stories or >some of the dumb things. ( no such thing as a dumb question, only >dumb >answers ) The world has never had such a way of disseminating so much >information. Take full advantage of this. Don't let it go away in >any >shape, manner or form such as censorship. > >Things are coming fast and furious. Soak up what you can and enjoy. >There is so much. > >But then I read all my Junk snail mail too. > >billy bee > >---------- >> From: Paul Basehore >> To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU >> Subject: Re: Censorship >> Date: 28 ao{t 1997 13:14 >> >> Quite frankley thats why we have on and off switches on pc, radioes, >tv's >> etc. so if we don't like what is on them we can turn the knob all >the >way to >> the left. >> WHEN CENSORSHIP THRIVES THE RIGHT TO FREE SPECH IS DEMINISHED ALONG >WITH >> OTHER RIGHTS I HOLD DEAR!! > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Aug 1997 15:07:56 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Guy Miller Subject: Re: Observation hive ... to cover or not to cover? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I'm sure covering is best, and because of that belief, in the 3 such hives that I have made for a local children's museum, I made covers to be put on when the museum was closed. They were put on religiously for about a week, and never again thereafter. The lights are turned off after about 6 pm, though. I have seen no evidence that the bees really cared. No absconding so far. Sometimes there are too many bees, other times too few. Wintering over is a chore, but I don't attribute any of those problems to the lack of covers. Guy F. Miller "Start every day with a smile, and get it over with." Charlottesville. VA W.C. Fields ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Aug 1997 13:27:09 -0600 Reply-To: darn@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Donald Aitken Subject: Re: honey weights In-Reply-To: <1F604254D1B@warthog.ru.ac.za> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Garth Cambray wrote: > I like the metric concept. Sell honey by the kilogram and I think it > works out that a jam jar sized bottle is half a kilogram. This is > easy to work out. The metric system was imposed on us some years ago by a government of lawyers who also liked its concept. We were promised amazing improvements in efficiency, simplicity and uniformity in trade. In fact, none of these improvements have materialized. Where we bought margarine in two lb tubs we now buy it in 907 gm tubs. Tires previously inflated to 50 lb per square inch are now inflated to 350,000 pascals ( whatever they are). Recently we had a discussion of the caloric costs and benefits of using gasoline powered vehicles to harvest honey, complicated by the confusion as to whether the inputs were in Calories or calories, the latter being 1000 times smaller. The newspapers tell us that forest fires are destroying thousands of square hectares (are there other shapes?) of forest daily. Where I used to use a teaspoon of terramyacin per gallon of syrup, I am now supposed to use 5ml per 4.5 liters. Industries are far better off left to decide what sort of measurements they like to use for their products. If the metric system offers significant advantages, it will be adopted. If it doesn't, we will be spared the enormous silliness of scrapping perfectly satisfactory equipment to satisfy a bureaucrat's longing for uniformity. Donald Aitken 11710-129 Street Edmonton Alberta Canada T5M 0Y7 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Aug 1997 15:25:50 -0500 Reply-To: beeman52@worldnet.att.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ken Lawrence Subject: 150 gal Tank MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello My 150 Gal tank has been spoken for. Hope everybody has a great Weekend but Bee Safe Ken ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Aug 1997 15:52:20 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Elizabeth M. Bowles" Subject: Re: Observation hive ... to cover or not to cover? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I'm interested in making a very simple observation hive for my Biology degree seminar. Can you give me any pointers? Thanks In Him, Elizabeth M. Bowles elizabeth@ctwok.com Missouri, USA > > I'm sure covering is best, and because of that belief, in the 3 such hives > that I have made for a local children's museum, I made covers to be put on > when the museum was closed. They were put on religiously for about a week, > and never again thereafter. The lights are turned off after about 6 pm, > though. I have seen no evidence that the bees really cared. No absconding > so far. Sometimes there are too many bees, other times too few. Wintering > over is a chore, but I don't attribute any of those problems to the lack of > covers. > > > Guy F. Miller "Start every day with a smile, and get it over with." > Charlottesville. VA W.C. Fields ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Aug 1997 15:21:03 +0200 Reply-To: Alexandra Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Alexandra Subject: ASCOSPHAERIOSIS Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit What I have to do against "ascosphaeriosis"? Andrzej, Katowice, Poland ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Aug 1997 19:40:59 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Martin Braunstein Subject: Re: ASCOSPHAERIOSIS Comments: To: Alexandra MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Alexandra, Maybe some fellow beekeepers ignore that Chalkbrood is what you are talki= ng about, a fungal disease. I can't suggest what to do but from my experience I can tell you what not to do. Some people say there is a connection between humidity and this disease. By the end of 1990, many beekeepers in Argentina started to report severe cases of chalkbrood. During 1992 this disease affected an incredible numb= er of hives. There seems to be correlation between the use of plywood strips immersed in Mavrik and Klartan (both are fluvalinate based miticides) and the enormous expansion of chalkbrood. We believe that the abrupt release = of fluvalinate weakens the resistance of the larvae to the infection with Ascosphaea apis (the fungus). On the other hand, beekeepers who used Apistan slow release strips didn't experience any problem. It is interesting to mention that in countries such like Israel (where th= e plywood strips were born), Spain and Italy, several beekeepers have suffered this disease in their hives and in spite of their very dry climates. Hope this helps you. Mart=EDn Braunstein Malka Caba=F1a Ap=EDcola e-mail: malka@webnet.com.ar ---------- > From: Alexandra > To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU > Subject: ASCOSPHAERIOSIS > Date: viernes 29 de agosto de 1997 7:21 >=20 > What I have to do against "ascosphaeriosis"? >=20 > Andrzej, Katowice, Poland ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Aug 1997 20:03:08 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Martin Braunstein Subject: Re: Generic form of Fumadil-B? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello Norm, You write Fumadil-B but actually it's Fumidil-B (after the m goes an I instead of A). It's a trade mark of Abbot Laboratories. Because of my queen rearing activity I'm a heavy user of this drug. I hav= e been purchasing it constantly during the past 7 years from Mid-Con Agrimarketing (800-547-1392) under the name Fumidil-B. However, I am surprised to notice that in the course of this 7 years the label has changed twice as regards the manufacturer: 1) Rhone Merieux, Canada.=20 2) Sanofi Sante Animale, Canada This two firms share the same address: Victoriaville, Qc, G6P 1B1, Canada. I came across a third supplier Medivet Pharmaceuticals (also in Canada) w= ho markets a product called Fumagillin-B. Their phone is 403-652-4441. I am trying to get in touch with them but I don't know whether or not they are connected with the other two companies. I also know there is a manufacturer in Hungary (eastern Europe) but have = no idea how to contact him. Please let me know what you find out. Mart=EDn Braunstein Malka Caba=F1a Ap=EDcola e-mail: malka@webnet.com.ar ---------- > From: Provost,Norm (NFSPOST1) > To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU > Subject: Generic form of Fumadil-B? > Date: viernes 29 de agosto de 1997 9:31 >=20 > Does anyone know a U.S. source for the generic form of Fumadil-B? I > believe the generic name is Bicyclohexylammonium Fumagillin. >=20 > I am a hobbiest simply looking to save a few bucks, and am looking for > relatively small quantities. However, my local beekeeper association > might be interested in bulk amounts if that's the only option. >=20 > Mail order perhaps? >=20 > Norm Provost > Burrillville, Rhode Island ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Aug 1997 21:17:21 +0000 Reply-To: Barry@Birkey.Com Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Barry Birkey Organization: BIRKEY.COM Subject: Re: Nice Beekeeper MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ken Lawrence wrote: > > Hello Folks: > This is Ken Lawrence on this side of the Computer about 25 miles North > of Kansas City Mo. > year. Average of 125 per hive. I sure do THANK him. I have met some > very nice people since I have been keeping bees (1971). He also stopped Hello there Ken - Thought I better tell the other side of the story as you left it out. Folks, this man is too humble. I think it's quite interesting that Ken sent me email one day (back when I was on AOL and one could easily get on!) after seeing my profile that said I keep bees as a hobby and introduced himself. That was about three years and several visits ago. He's about the nicest man I've met and would do most anything to help someone out. The times I've gone to visit Ken and his wife have been most enjoyable and they sure know what the word hospitality means! Margaret puts on a spread at meal time that would be hard to beat. I've learned alot about beekeeping from Ken and his 27 years worth of experience. I also enjoyed working his Cowen Mini Uncapper and will gladly take it off his hands when he gets tired of it! None of this would have happened if it weren't for this medium that we make use of. I'm still awed at times when I think of my/our ability to be in communication with others that are at great distances from me/us and might even speak a different language. I feel I'm the blessed one here. Anyway, take some time to follow up on unsolicited beekeeping email and you might be pleasantly surprised at the outcome like I was. For a good time near Kansas City, call Ken at: 1-816-123-4567 You won't regret it! Regards. -Barry -- Barry Birkey West Chicago, Illinois USA barry@birkey.com http://www.birkey.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 30 Aug 1997 00:09:54 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Kirk Jones Subject: Re: Observation hive ... to cover or not to cover? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hi I'm glad to see a thread on observation hives as we had a strange occurance here week before last. Our hive is a 8 frame hive which we stocked in the spring. Everything was fine except that the queen we introduced from California, would only lay on two of the frames, and they were slowly going down in numbers.We would cover at night when it was cool. We have a pipe going through the window and they would congregate at the end of it. They balled her about 12 days ago and I have looked for an emergency cell to no avail. We requeened yesterday and added a full frame of honey, so far the bees are showing very little interest in her. We're not sure why this occured. Any speculation? We're thinking possibly she just wasn't viril enough to suit them though she still was laying eggs. Possibly the hive isn't ventilated enough though we have air holes on the sides and the top. The exit pipe is on the side down towards the base. We're wondering about having them fly out the top. Any ideas would be appreciated. Sharon *Kirk Jones/ Sleeping Bear Apiaries /971 S. Pioneer Rd./Beulah,MI 49617 *Sharon Jones/ BeeDazzled Candleworks /6289 River Rd./ Benzonia, MI 49616 e-mail b-man@aliens.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Aug 1997 23:09:19 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Calkins, Rob" Subject: Lost Bees? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain I am a new bee keeper and was wondering if anyone has ever seen what is happening at my bee yard. I have two hives at this yard and just finished pulling supers last week. For the last couple of days there has been a ball of bees about the size of a baseball at the side of a shed at the bee yard. They do not seem to be building any combs and I don't see a queen although I haven't had time to look real close. The only thing that I can think of is maybe they are too crowed in the hive and some are staying next to the shed. I did give the empty supers back to the hives to clean up before storage so I don't know if they were thrown off by this. Its not a lot of bees in this cluster, but I was just curious of possibilities. Thanks, Rob Calkins 4 hives ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 30 Aug 1997 00:48:59 -0700 Reply-To: vcoppola@epix.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Vince Coppola Subject: Re: brush uncapping MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Digest Cesar Flores wrote: > > I am now familiar with using knives, planes, heat blowers and chain uncappers > to uncap honey cells. Does anyone have any experience using the device with > the spinning brushes? Talk to Dave Cowan. They have tried this but have not yet put a machine on the market. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 30 Aug 1997 01:10:04 -0700 Reply-To: vcoppola@epix.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Vince Coppola Subject: Re: weight of supers..again... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ian Watson wrote: > > Hi all > > Recently someone asked about the weight of a super of honey, which I assume > is what is called a 6 5/8 or "Illinois" super. I recall only one response, > and so I'm asking again, because I'm interested in knowing the answer. Hi Ian, I have kept production records for 14 years and its rare, at least in my neck of the woods to average more than 30 lbs per 6 5/8 super. The highest average I've recorded is 35 lbs per super and most of these these really looked full. If I'm trying to estimate a crop I use 25 lbs/super for an average looking crop and 30 lbs for a very nice one. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 30 Aug 1997 02:09:56 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Wilhelm E Kaosse Subject: Crudities After reading several simplistic rationalizations like... ... so if we don't like what is on them we can turn the knob all >the way to the left. WHEN CENSORSHIP THRIVES THE RIGHT TO FREE SPECH IS DEMINISHED ALONG WITH OTHER RIGHTS I HOLD DEAR!! ...I REALLY began to be offended. Of COURSE, the best response to the original bit of barnyard humor was to ignor it but the vigorous DEFENSE of material that was not only crude but outside the perameters of the list subject---makes that an abrogation of responsibility. The reason censorship happens is because of irresponsibility. Unfortunatly, the 'net will not be as free as it might have remained because of irresponsible purveyors of smut. No one particularly cares if perverts want to huddle in some private corner but those who delight in such things seem driven to foist them on others,(misery loves company, one supposes). No-one has a RIGHT to be offensive, however! One reads Bee-L expecting to see certain things there and the item in question was a word picture that had nothing to do with the list. Normally THAT alone would be sufficient to merit a warning but with the added dimension of sexual connotations the knee-jerk defense of titillating imagry by the more libertarian of our membership seems to have brushed all reason aside. The material was IRRELEVANT to the list AND offensive on top of it. That some folks on the list are intellectual lightweights in thrall to the rationalizations of the pornographers of the world is unfortunate but let them not speak for the general listmembership. On Suckling Jokes-L the material might've been appropriate---but I add my voice to those besieged folks who've dared to point out the obvious inappropriatness of such material on the Bee List. Bee-L is not meant for such material and posting it is an abrogation of the contract implied in the introduction to the list. Defending and encouraging it is worse though---THAT is destructive of the order and co-operation required on a list with such a large and varied membership. ...Stuart (Stuart Grant,(49degrees N; 123 degrees, 20 min W; elevation 20m; Strait of Georgia 2k; rural urban combination in temperate rainforest setting; 5 colonies ---3rd year) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Aug 1997 06:41:00 GMT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Andy Nachbaur Organization: WILD BEE'S BBS (209) 826-8107 LOS BANOS, CA Subject: Help-Wild Hive with Varroa Mite LC>From: Linda Campbell >Date: Wed, 27 Aug 1997 11:34:14 -0400 >Subject: Help-Wild Hive with Varroa Mite LC>A farmer down the road has a wild hive of honey bees that have been >making their home in the casing to a transmission of an abandoned >bulldozer on the edge of the woods. I've been keeping an eye on them, >looking for a swarm, since retrieval would be difficult to impossible as >they enter through one small screw hole. We recently noticed many bees >on the outside of the rusted casing. I looked closer and noticed that >many (90%) of the bees outside the hive have no wings. A friend says >they are deformed from varroa mite infestation and that the colony will >be dead in a month. This saddens me but of more concern is what happens >to the mites? Could bee and without having a sample of the bees in hand one can only guess. With that kind of mite damage which is extreme and would only been seen as your friend says shortly before the hives die. But other things can cause the wings to be deformed and here in California we have the Buckeye Tree and other plants that can do a job on a hive. Other insects and bigger pests also are known to work on the bees. LC>Will the mites still be alive and well and eager if my new colony comes >to this spot to rob honey from the dozer transmission. Should I leave >these bees to die or should I try to do something. It seems the bees are >doomed but I am most worried about the proliferation of the varroa >mites. Any suggestions or experience on the subject would be >appreciated. Hello Linda, Nature will run it course and outside intervention may be wasted on advanced cases of Varroa. The Varroa mite does live a little longer off the bee without food then once was suspected, but its life span without food is still too short to present a problem for any bees that may later set up house keeping in the hive that has been dead for a few days. But in the dieing process if the hive is robbed out in the days before it becomes a dead out by neighboring bees they can bring home a few uninvited guests. LC>Thanks and apologies if this in inappropriate. Not necessary to apologize as it brings to mind my story about the Junk Yard Bees and how I made my first million $$ selling new military surplus exhaust manifolds. When I was a juvenal all us kids used to sneak into the local junk yard after it closed looking for parts for our old Model A's. The junk yard dogs in those day were more friendly then now and we always carried a few fresh hot dogs to keep them quite. Anyway after getting caught several times and having my rear end warmed I stuck to robbing bees and a few years later had some located about a mile from the old junkyard hidden behind some trees. One afternoon I got home from school and had a note to call the old guy at the junk yard. I did and he had a problem with bees flying in and out of a box and did not seem to remember us kids and our raids on his junk yard. Sure enough it was a old swarm that had been there for years and it had stung him, his customers, and his dog more then once. He was frantic to get rid of the bees. I HAD HIM AT LAST.. anyway he was happy to give me what ever was in the box if I would just take it away, which I did, and many more over the years as I increased my bee hive count down the road from his junk yard with the help of his swarms and was not unhappy each spring to find one or more of my hive had swarmed as that old junk man was really a nice guy and would give me all the boxes and wooden kegs of nails that had bees in them plus a few model A parts to boot. The boxes that were full of brand new WWII Jeep exhaust manifolds and I was able to sell them over the years for a few buck less then the million mentioned earlier, but you would not have read this far if I had said the total income was $12.14... ttul, the OLd Drone Los Banos, California (c) Permission is granted to freely copy this document in any form, or to print for any use. Make your own corrections. (w)Opinions are not necessarily facts. Use at own risk. --- ~ QMPro 1.53 ~ If Rhett Butler had a modem,he'd swear off Southern Belle ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Aug 1997 22:32:07 UT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Garry Libby Subject: Re: Order Dr.Connor, I was just wondering if My order is OK?Another co.had trouble with the credit card # that I gave You.If any problems arise please E-mail Me at once.Thank You, Garry Libby ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Aug 1997 15:17:22 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: jinnah edun Subject: mail from the list Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Dear Sir, My subscription to the list was accepted but I am not getting any mail. Are you able to help me, please? Sincerely, Jinnah ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 30 Aug 1997 09:08:10 -0600 Reply-To: allend@internode.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Allen Dick Organization: The Beekeepers Subject: Re: Crudities? In-Reply-To: <19970830.000553.5087.14.bolder@juno.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT > Of COURSE, the best response to the original bit of barnyard humor was to > ignor it but the vigorous DEFENSE of material that was not only crude but > outside the perameters of the list subject... Parameters, actually. Perhaps many are missing the fact that a *key* component of the little story we all enjoyed so much that we can't stop talking about it is... BEES! I thought about this at the time of the original post and concluded that, indeed, bees were *essential* to the tale. It would be hard to tell the story any other way. Of course the calf was essential too, but this was definitely a bee story, and possibly one repeated in bee circles along with such lore as "I eat my peas with honey...". Was it a fable? Well, My dictionary defines fable as "a short story not based on fact, often with animals as characters, that conveys a moral..." By that definition, without some stretching, our little tale may or may not "quite" qualify, but it comes close enough to almost make the cut. It definitely makes it under "tales". Now, many of us decided it was actually a joke rather than a puzzling fable. It was sufficiently subtle that the innocent among us are still wondering why the fuss. That little post, though, seems though to have functioned as an ink blot test for the list members: the farmers among us got a chuckle, the naive got to puzzle, the editors got to editorialize, and the prudes got to get worked up about their own personal vision of what the situation described in the tale implied to them. People who have never posted to this list suddenly had something to say. All in all it was very exciting and satisfying for many, judging by the widespread response. It was ar more exciting, for example, than the bee nutrition discussions which have been carried on by the efforts of a only handful of us, yet may hit at the central problem in our industry and explain PMS. Maybe it was the most successful post of the year thus far. Anyhow, back to the original question: was such a story appropriate for a group that discusses bees? I have to conclude that it was very legitimate, assuming bee fables and folklore are also fair game for our list. FWIW It has been tradition on the net to ROT13 anything that might offend or be in questionable taste and to title the article with a warning so as to protect the innocent from being accidentally defiled. (It is assumed the innocent wish to stay that way and know enough not to look). Inasmuch as the piece in question was not so presented, I can only conclude that the original poster was not aware of the meanings that some would read into it and placed it here because it has bees as a part of its central theme and felt that it should come to the attention of bee lovers. Fair enough. Allen ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 30 Aug 1997 11:15:50 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ian Watson Subject: Re: Crudities MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ---------- > From: Wilhelm E Kaosse > To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU > Subject: Crudities > Date: Saturday, August 30, 1997 2:09 AM > > because of irresponsible purveyors of smut. > added dimension of sexual connotations the knee-jerk defense of > titillating imagery by the more libertarian of our membership seems to > have brushed all reason aside. > > The material was IRRELEVANT to the list AND offensive on top of it. That > some folks on the list are intellectual lightweights in thrall to the > rationalizations of the pornographers of the world is unfortunate but let > them not speak for the general listmembership. > > ...Stuart > (Stuart Grant,(49degrees N; 123 degrees, 20 min W; elevation 20m; Strait > of Georgia 2k; rural urban combination in temperate rainforest setting; > 5 colonies ---3rd year) > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- --------------- Well, I'm not sure who to respond to, either Wilhelm, or Stuart. Nevertheless............smut?, crude?, titillating imagery?,sexual connotation?, pornography?....WHERE???? The source of any smut, sexual connotation, or pornographical images came from **your own interpretation** of the last part of the "fable". There was nothing in that post that was "naughty". What is offensive is you writing into the list with your "holier that thou" attitude and insults (example: "intellectual lightweights) when you are just as "guilty" as the rest of us. "Remove the beam in your own eye, so that you can see more clearly to remove the speck in your brothers eye" Also, in the words of a previous response: Lighten Up!Ian Watson realtor@niagara.com real estate agent gardener baritone beekeeper---> 11 colonies ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 30 Aug 1997 11:33:35 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Joel Govostes Subject: Re: Bee Escapes Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >Where can I buy bee escapes such as the Porter Bee Escapes that were >discussed? For anyone else who might be interested -- there is another type of "bee-escape" available, which is IMO far superior to the Porter design, and which I have been using with greatest success. It is sometimes referred to as a "triangle-escape board", or "Canadian clearer board." Basically, it is a thin plywood board with a 1/2" rim on both sides. In the center is a ~ 2" diameter hole. The bees pass down from the supers through this hole and into a "maze" on the other side, triangular in shape, which is covered with screen. The only exits are at the corners of the triangle, which the bees find easily, and they are directed into the hive bodies below. They do not go back up into the supers, however, as the "maze" prevents them from reaching the hole in the board again. Difficult to describe, but simple in design, easy to build, no moving parts, etc. There is (only) one bee supplier currently offering these (I think), which is Beterbee, in Greenwich, NY, near the VT border. If you purchase one (~$10 or thereabouts) you can very easily copy the pattern to make your own. They work like a charm. The Porter bee escapes, in my experience have not been nearly as reliable. They have to be fit into an inner-cover, often get gummed up, & can also become clogged by dead bees or drones. Anyway, check it out if you might be interested. I have found these boards to be a real time- and work-saver. Best wishes, J. Govostes Freeville, NY ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 30 Aug 1997 15:31:04 -0400 Reply-To: mrayson@apk.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Michael J. Schuerger, Sr" Organization: Rayson Computer Services Subject: Re: Crudities MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Oh please. Let's not pretend: that was an off-color joke. Or you are ignorant of cows and the location of their udders. But lets not pretend it was anything other than what it was. Fingers and toes? PrePOSterous. If you want to discuss whether or not such a post belongs here, you *at least* should argue from a base of fact. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 30 Aug 1997 16:11:13 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: bartlett Subject: bee fable Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Well, I for one think the whole thing with this bee fable is just GREAT!! WHY? For one thing it tells me about the people who are on this site ----- ALL KINDS! You know you can say anything you want and not get punched. I have enjoyed the bantering back and forth as much as anything. Lots of good philosophy about the fable, the bee-L, and life in general. Sure have seen lots of nice words that seem to address the problem from all sides. There are intelligent people here who know how to handle a situation. Everybody gets to say what they want without being interupted ------ HALLEUYA! I LOVE THIS THING! billy bee ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 30 Aug 1997 09:45:15 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Walter T. Weller" Subject: Re: Crudities Good job, Stuart. You may sit at my table at any trial. On Sat, 30 Aug 1997 02:09:56 EDT Wilhelm E Kaosse writes: >After reading several simplistic rationalizations like... >... so if we don't like what is on them we can turn the knob all >>the way to the left. WHEN CENSORSHIP THRIVES THE RIGHT TO FREE SPECH >IS DEMINISHED ALONG WITH OTHER RIGHTS I HOLD DEAR!! > ...I REALLY began to be offended. > >Of COURSE, the best response to the original bit of barnyard humor was >to ignor it but the vigorous DEFENSE of material that was not only >crude but outside the perameters of the list subject---makes that an >abrogation of responsibility. > >The reason censorship happens is because of irresponsibility. >Unfortunatly, the 'net will not be as free as it might have remained >because of irresponsible purveyors of smut. No one particularly cares >if perverts want to huddle in some private corner but those who >delight in such things seem driven to foist them on others,(misery >loves company, one supposes). No-one has a RIGHT to be offensive, >however! > >One reads Bee-L expecting to see certain things there and the item in >question was a word picture that had nothing to do with the list. >Normally THAT alone would be sufficient to merit a warning but with >the added dimension of sexual connotations the knee-jerk defense of >titillating imagry by the more libertarian of our membership seems to >have brushed all reason aside. > >The material was IRRELEVANT to the list AND offensive on top of it. >That some folks on the list are intellectual lightweights in thrall to >the rationalizations of the pornographers of the world is unfortunate >but let them not speak for the general listmembership. > >On Suckling Jokes-L the material might've been appropriate---but I add >my voice to those besieged folks who've dared to point out the obvious >inappropriatness of such material on the Bee List. Bee-L is not meant >for such material and posting it is an abrogation of the contract >implied in the introduction to the list. Defending and encouraging it >is worse though---THAT is destructive of the order and co-operation >required on a list with such a large and varied membership. > >...Stuart >(Stuart Grant,(49degrees N; 123 degrees, 20 min W; elevation 20m; >Strait of Georgia 2k; rural urban combination in temperate rainforest >setting; 5 colonies ---3rd year) >-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Walter Weller Post Office Box 270 Wakefield, Louisiana 70784 (former farmboy, sailor, oilfield roustabout, engineer, and lawyer). ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 30 Aug 1997 22:14:33 +0200 Reply-To: jtemp@xs4all.nl Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jan Tempelman Organization: Home Subject: Re: Observation hive ... to cover or not to cover? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-2 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Elizabeth M. Bowles wrote: > > I'm interested in making a very simple observation hive for my Biology > degree seminar. Can you give me any pointers? In may a added (for the second year) an observation hive in a schoolclass (children about 9/10 years) on the second floor of an old schoolbuilding. There is a drawing on my site http://www.xs4all.nl/~jtemp/ob_kast2bk.html (in Dutch language) but the best drawing is on BARRY's site http://www.birkey.com/BLB/index.html It is a two frame-hive with two queencells and the bees from 4 frames. Control after two weeks wether the queen is laying, if not,replace the lower frame in a new frame with eggs.(A two frame hive will never swarm) Here in Holland, when the weather is not too good, you have to feed sugarwater. (one on one) I have attached the hive flat agains the wall between two windows, and with a plexiglas tube on the corner straight trough the wall. Outsite I have done nothing. The teacher was delighted in moments she wanted the class to be quiet.She only has to mention the bees. In June, I went with one super and the extractor to the class Uncaped and croped the honey, all childeren went home with a jar of honey. All the children had to make their own label. In return I got a little book with drawings of bees and a little poems. I can recommend having a hive IN classrooms. Never seen kid's so dedicated to the bees. -- Jan Tempelman / Ineke Drabbe | EMAIL:jtemp@xs4all.nl Sterremos 16 3069 AS Rotterdam, The Netherlands Tel/Fax (SOMETIMES) XX 31 (0)10-4569412 http://www.xs4all.nl/~jtemp/index3.html ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 30 Aug 1997 22:37:51 +0100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Computer Software Solutions Ltd Subject: Lifting Supers etc. mechanically (saving the back) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hi all I have recently had a quotation for a product called 'backSaver' from Mountain Road Apiary Fallstop MD 21047 USA This is a tripod which uses leverage principles to lift supers and brood boxes effortlessly. I am wondering if anybody has any experience of using such a product. Is it all that it is cracked up to be?. On the face of it, it looks good. I shall be delighted for your comments as I thinking of spending around US$100.00 on one. Sincerely Tom Barrett 49 South Park Foxrock Dublin 18 Ireland e mail: cssl@iol.ie ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 30 Aug 1997 15:05:23 -0800 Reply-To: beeman@Alaska.NET Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Tom & Carol Elliott Organization: Home Subject: Re: Crudities MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Wilhelm E Kaosse wrote: > > Of COURSE, the best response to the original bit of barnyard humor was to > ignor it but the vigorous DEFENSE of material that was not only crude but > outside the perameters of the list subject---makes that an abrogation of > responsibility. I have to agree. I simply ignored it, even though it was in extremely poor taste. But, when folks objected because it was not bee related and was objectionable they were flamed down. On the other hand when I suggested that 'macro' evolution was a poor tool to investigate honeybee behavior, I was shouted down because I was preaching religion. I never even mentioned or suggested anything religious. I find the two cases very revealing of the attitude of many people on the list. -- "Test everything. Hold on to the good." (1 Thessalonians 5:21) Tom Elliott Chugiak, Alaska U.S.A. beeman@alaska.net ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 31 Aug 1997 23:28:12 +1200 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Nick Wallingford Organization: Bay of Plenty Polytechnic Subject: Re: European foulbrood in New Zealand? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Oh, dear, let's hope it doesn't get started again. It might be worse than the off colour joke! > But since what we beekeepers call > "EFB" may be a cocktail of problems it may be that those in New Zealand > who say they don't have "EFB" are also right as they may not have the > same "EFB" that we have. The presence of European foulbrood in a country is not an matter of 'opinion' - it simple testing for causative organism. However much conspiracy theory some might want to read into everything, New Zealand bees are tested regularly for the presence of EFB. The tests have always been negative. > I personally > believe any country that believes it gets it AFB from empty imported > honey containers must also have EFB I don't quite follow that one, Andy. Are you still referring to NZ in this? NZ beekeepers have never said anything about our AFB coming from empty imported honey containers. And even if we did, how does that suddenly mean that we must also have EFB??? > With the criminal inditement of the former USDA Secertary of Agriculture > it is clear that a few other minor burcrats in the USDA should also > bee worried as the day of the free lunch and free trips for what ever > purpose may be over as some of us see little difference in working for a > Arkansas chicken plucker and some foreign government bee research > project that has no benefit to US tax payers or US beekeepers. > > Top priority research by the USDA is regulatory in nature and one only > has to have attend the last generation of national beekeeping meeting to > have a grater knowledge of the annual changing USDA management system > then beekeeping disease research. As USDA beekeeping research dies for > lack of beekeeper interest and budget cuts some effort has been made by > the USDA to show concern for beekeeper problems but I suspect the die > has been cast and without some major changes, that I don't see coming, > its too late and the Hawaii situation is one of those proverbial straws. > > ttul, the OLd Drone > > (c) Permission is granted to freely copy this document > in any form, or to print for any use. > > (w)Opinions are not necessarily facts. Use at own risk. > > --- > ~ QMPro 1.53 ~ SLMR 2.0 ~ A ounce of pretension = a pound of manure! > (\ Nick Wallingford {|||8- home nickw@wave.co.nz (/ work nw1@boppoly.ac.nz NZ Beekeeping http://www.beekeeping.co.nz ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 31 Aug 1997 23:36:00 +1200 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Nick Wallingford Organization: Bay of Plenty Polytechnic Subject: Re: European foulbrood in New Zealand? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Oops, too quick with the fingers. I sent that last one before I had finished! Sorry... I'll continue... > past it has also been said by NZ public relations/regulatory officials > they don't have any bee diseases which is misleading at the least. New Zealand has never claimed to be free of all bee diseases. We have been honest and open, we have had scientifically valid surveys conducted to determine what beasties we do and don't have, and all of the results have been made publically available. We *do* claim freedom from EFB, all three mites and Africanised honeybee genes. Again, this comes down to matters of fact, rather than emotion or claims of political protectionism or conspiracy... And to assure you all, I am neither 'public relations' for the beekeeping industry (there are no such people...) or 'regulatory' - I'm a beekeeper, albeit with only two hives! (\ Nick Wallingford {|||8- home nickw@wave.co.nz (/ work nw1@boppoly.ac.nz NZ Beekeeping http://www.beekeeping.co.nz ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 31 Aug 1997 02:38:11 +0300 Reply-To: pimapis@rls.roknet.ro Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: marian pintilie Organization: pimapis Subject: Again a bee fable. (and one without bees) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello everybody. I do not have anymore the address of the fellow who wanted fables, so I'll post it in the list. (I beg, don't shoot me, if after your carefully analyse, you will find that the fable isn't bee related, or (help me God) there is somewhere inside, something vulgar. (this parenthesis is for the respectable members of the list.)) One beekeper was unlucky, and a bear started to visit daily his apiary. That was located in mountains, a little far by the road. So he left every time the car on road. The bear was not very educated, and let the hives open after controlling them. Of course the beekeper want to protect his apiary. One day he took a gun and hide in bushes to shoot the robber. After a day he decided to go back home. The bear did not come. The surprise was that he found the car flat. The bear didn't appreciated the hospitality of the beekeeper, so he decided to dance a little on his car. I read the story many years ago in our national magazine of beekeeping. I am from Romania. They pretended that story was true. Maybe was. If not, is just a fable.I remember only the facts from story. The stile of telling it is mine. The following fable isn't bee related but has a meaning which can be useful for Eunice. One day a wolf comes from the forest and eats a sheep. The shepherd took a gun, gone in the forest, and late in the evening returned with the dead wolf. Next day a wolf eats other sheep. The shepherd took a gun, gone in the forest, and late in the evening returned with the dead wolf. Next day a wolf eats other sheep..... so on, many days. ONE DAY A SHEEP EAT OTHER SHEEP. The shepherd took a gun, gone in the forest, and late in the evening returned with the dead wolf. I can not stop me to thank to Eunice for warming up the atmosphere. (By the way. Eunice, some of your statements offended me, but don't be afraid, fortunately words are not bullets.) **************************************************************** Costel Pintilie **************************************************************** = Secretary of a beekeeper * D O N' T W O R R Y = Go player * B E E H A P P Y = Computer addicted * C O U L D B E: = Citizen of a society of slaves * = Son of a bee * = @@@@@@@@CENSORED@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ * * * * * * *** *** *** = @@@@@@@@CENSORED@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ * * * * * * * * * * = Vegetarian * * * * * * * *** *** *** = Starving * ** ** * * ** * * = Still happy * ** ** * * * *** *** **************************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 30 Aug 1997 20:55:05 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: bartlett Subject: Draw the line Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Who will it be to draw the line of what can and what can't go on Bee-L. ME! God forbid! You? What gives you the right? Leave everything where God flung it! Post what you like. This is supposed to be about bees though. BEE HAPPY BEE HAPPY BEE HAPPY BEE HAPPY BEE HAPPY billy b BEE HAPPY BEE HAPPY BEE HAPPY ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 30 Aug 1997 18:34:39 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Andy Nachbaur (by way of Andy Nachbar )" Subject: Bees in the NEWS for Aug. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/enriched; charset="us-ascii" BEES IN THIS MONTHS NEWS The GOOD!! The month started off with ULEES GOLD, ulees gold, and more gold for the beekeepers. The McGinnis family long time beekeepers and Florida honey packer got a nice write around the 7th on the "shortage of TUPELO honey" which has never been in good supply, but a nice plug for them. http://www.n-jcenter.com/97/aug/07/fo807.htm The BAD!! What a way to end the month.....!! African bees kill two year old in Puerto Rico http://www.herald.com/americas/digdocs/010938.htm The story is below, but if you can't read it go to the connection. Other stories appeared on how beekeepers feel on crop duster's, and more on the 90%-109% loss of all wild honeybees, not worth the bytes, but please notice how the Puerto Rico story puffs the 150,000 "wild" bee colonies are all Africaner now. Maybe the Vampire mites don't bite the Mau Mau bees from Brizal. Bad news travels in pairs and the Mexican Killer Bees have been busy also attacking children and killing one. A lot is missing from this story, maybe you will find more on it later.. http://www/herald.com/brknews/docs/046888.htm ttul, the OLd Drone Published Saturday, August 30, 1997, in the Miami Herald Bees kill boy, 2, in Puerto Rico SAN JUAN, Puerto Rico -- (AP) -- Africanized bees, including those that killed 2-year-old Emanuel Irizarry this week, have nearly wiped out less aggressive bee species in Puerto Rico, an expert said Friday. A swarm of Africanized bees -- often called ``killer bees'' -- attacked the boy, who had gone with his father, grandmother and two cousins to pick avocados Wednesday. Emanuel died nine hours later at the Humacao Regional Hospital in southeastern Puerto Rico. The two cousins were hospitalized. Modesto Colon, director of the government's bee-control program, said four people have died in Puerto Rico from bee attacks in the past four years. He said Africanized bees were introduced to Puerto Rico around 1994 and have since overrun other species. ``We suspect that all the 150,000 wild bee colonies are Africanized,'' Colon said. Colon said Africanized bees are more aggressive, more easily disturbed, attack in swarms and will pursue a person who runs away from them. <Copyright 1997 The Miami Herald <Getting in touch with HERALDlink ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 30 Aug 1997 21:54:06 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: James D Satterfield Subject: Top Bar Hive Beekeeping Website Addition MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Just finished adding a page with photos that show tbh's being worked as honey is harvested. The link is in "What's New" link as well as on the home page a bit farther down. To visit the home page, go to: http://www.gsu.edu/~biojdsx/main.htm If you'd rather go directly to the new page, go to: http://www.gsu.edu/~biojdsx/wkngtbh.htm Hope your honey harvest is going well if it's that time of the year for you. If it's your winter, I hope you're cozy. Cordially yours, Jim ---------------------------------------------------------------- | James D. Satterfield | E-Mail: jsatt@gsu.edu | | 258 Ridge Pine Drive --------------------------------| | Canton, GA 30114, USA Canton is about 40 mi/64 km | | Telephone (770) 479-4784 north of Altanta, Georgia USA | | | | TBH Beekeeping Website: http://www.gsu.edu/~biojdsx/main.htm | ---------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 30 Aug 1997 21:22:01 -0700 Reply-To: salbritt@iAmerica.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Steven Albritton Subject: pressbox extraction MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To who ever wrote about using rubber bands to salvage wild hives, GEE THANKS. My landlord and I went today to extract a hive of bees out of a football (american) press box. We were able to take down the moulding and one sheet of panneling and there they were. A small amount of smoke, the smoker went out before I hit them with a lot. We made a jig saw puzzle holding everything in place with vertical and horz. rubberbands. We will go back tonight to bring the box down. Right or wrong we left the hive sitting close to the wall in hopes of reclaiming any workers already out working and the ones who were trying to get out through the glass in the door. We left A/C running so it should be cool enough for them to go in. The bees were surprisingly mild and not hard to work with. Stay tuned for how we come out. Second year beekeeper with 16 hives. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 30 Aug 1997 23:21:22 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Paul Cronshaw, D.C." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" The Motivator Once again I find myself, the proverbial Gemini, celebrating another year of longevity. Like me, this makes the MSAA another year older as we enter our 28th fiscal year. Reflections on the past range from extreme happiness to great sorrow. However, the enormous feeling of pride for all of our accomplishments and achievements still continues. Many of you have shared this feeling with us, and we are indeed grateful for your loyalty, friendship, and support. Your continued support of the MSAA will help us extend all of our support to you in return. Over the years the Motivator has presented our many achievements and accomplishments and has kept you all informed of our activities and programs. The newsletter also has given me a way to convey to you my professional and personal thoughts on a wide variety of subjects. Throughout the MSAA's 28 years of existence, I have regarded all of you as special friends, and I would like to share this sentiment with you on my birthday: John Hodson, Sr A Special Friend special friend is a friend who shares, One who listens, one who cares, One who's quick to lend a hand, to ease a hurt, to understand - A special friend is a blending of loyalty and cheer and love, Faith and trust and kindness, too - in short, it's someone just like you! -John Hodson, Sr. Presenting the winners of the 1997 Project: Learn MSTM Essay Contest "I'm OK, are you?" Silently, the myelin sheath decays; with stealth. A scar. Multiple scars. Unheard, unseen, unnoticed. Until. I trip; can't see the words; can't feel your touch. I cannot make that love that meant so much. "The message isn't getting through," he said. "You have MS." "I'm only 29," I said. A husband, children, job and dreams. Benign? Relapse-remit? Chronic relapse? Chronic Progressive? Is that me perhaps? We work together, he and I; we talk; we share. "Why ME?" I cry inside, I shout. "Why NOT me?" I hear a voice, "Who else?" I turn to face the truth: I've lost control, But guilt and grief will not pervade my soul. I see the struggle in my child; the rage within, These trembling hands, these spastic limbs; These canes and crutches, ramps and lifts; This Mom is very different from the rest - Sweetheart, with love we ALL can pass this test. Unpredictable. Incurable. Relentless. Attack. Relapse. Remission. Hope. Relapse. A little shaky but I'll make it there. Relapse. Can't make the game today, my love. Relapse. Sorry, babe, the message isn't getting through, I've wet my pants, and all of this in front of you. That's it! It's tough! But I'm still alive and not alone! Lost my body but not my brain. Don't say I'll never walk again - I will! Great things can happen - fundraise, find a cure; They ride, they run, they walk, they laugh - I'm there; You're great! We'll take any penny you can spare! A wheelchair scooter rally! Get the "a-b's" in these things and let 'em loose Experience the view Of tummy-level life- Where buttons are too high to push, Ramps too steep; Doors too heavy, Doors too small; No bars to help - I need to go! I'm in the road, I know I'm slow! No coffee there, too many steps; This sidewalk disappears; Can't shop at so-and-so...why not? No striped-zone in the parking lot. You need to go? True Value's is the best in town - I know! Autonomy Independence Respect my rights as yours. Keep the stores, the art, humanities within my reach. Don't isolate me from the world when making city plans Think small, think close, think mixed. Think green, think birds, think plants and flowers; Think people, sidewalks, social needs - Clinics, pools and schools That we can access alone and proud At any time, with low expense, To share the world that this disease has changed for us So young and strong before; That this disease will shrink; That this disease will steal And we will share no more. The quality of life is Life in all its forms, It is light, laughter, quiet and comfort - That's nothing new to you. It's just more difficult to get when your legs don't work Or your eyes can't see, or your hands won't move Where you want them to. Find a new way to see when this person goes by, As you murmur to yourself, "There, but for the grace of God, go I." Project Learn MS '97 Project: Learn MS '97 received 1,687 essays. Out of this large group, 24 judges volunteered their time to help us narrow down the field to two grand prize winners, and two honorable mentions. MSAA would like to thank the judges who read the essays and gave so much of their time and dedication to the project: Cynthia Bleshman; Art Campbell; Beverly Cox; Tracy DiPaolo; Jay Feldman; Mary Fergusen; David Flegel; Jim Hansen; Lori Hart; Dean Insana, D.C.; Paula Joffe; Ian Johns; Colleen Keenan; Tom McLaughlin; Elaine O'Brien; Edward O'Donnell; Cherie Riverso; Amy Sciarretto; Steve Shapiro; Sondra Snitoff; Raymond Spearman; Kathleen Stevens; Flo Werner; and Neal Zoren. PROJECT: Learn MS '97 is a national public awareness program designed to help young adults understand multiple sclerosis, as well as earn a college scholarship and help raise vital funds for MSAA programs. Under contest rules, each participant was required to write an essay on MS, its effects on the family, and how society can impact and improve life for the physically challenged. This year the contest was open to both high school students (sophomores, juniors, and seniors) and college students (freshmen, sophomores, and juniors). Each grand prize winner received $8,000 in scholarship money. A Call for Entries Friday, June 5th, 1998 is the deadline for the PROJECT: Learn MS '98 essay contest. The competition will again be open to both high school students (sophomores, juniors, and seniors) and college students (freshmen, sophomores, and juniors). Students from each of the two levels will be judged separately and $16,000 in scholarships will be awarded. For an application, please send a self-addressed stamped envelope to: PROJECT: Learn MS '98, 706 Haddonfield Road, Cherry Hill, NJ 08002. Applications will be available in September. We look forward to hearing from you! Essay Contest Winner: High School Division Do You Know Me? I am feared by all who know me personally, but feared even more by those who don't. Few know much about me, and therefore my reputation is often worse than the reality. Attacking the "invincible," those in rich, white, northern, clean, industrialized countries, I am referred to as the "democratic disease," because I have no real preference for any race within that industrialized country; and I am only slightly partial to women. I am proud to say I have visited between 250,000 and 500,000 humans in the United States alone and am gaining more of a grip every day. I have not only affected each of those people, but their families and friends as well. Upon my visit, their daily lives were forever changed. I made myself known for the first time in 1835, and despite their continued efforts, these humans don't yet fully understand how I operate. But then, I take pleasure in being complex. Theories have been presented that perhaps I am an auto-immune disease, a virus, or even a combination of the two, but no one really knows for certain. It has been speculated that I am hereditary, but I don't attack the same family enough to uphold that theory. So far the mystery surrounding me continues to confound them. No one knows how I degenerate the myelin sheath around a nerve cell, leaving the hard scar tissue known as gliotic plaque in its place. My plaques cause the messages from the brain to travel at half their normal speed. At my whim, I strategically infect thousands of nerve cells, and this is how I interfere with the body's functions. Thus I can harm a person in a number of ways, ranging from loss of bladder control to temporary blindness or double vision, unsteadiness or dizziness, weakness, tremors, numbness, or paralysis of the extremities, fatigue, or slurred speech. I rarely experiment on two people in the same manner. Some of the population will receive visits from me only when they are under stress, suffering attacks only every few years. Others I enjoy so much that I never leave their side, causing a gradual weakening and degeneration of their motor skills. I don't kill quickly, the patient living an average of 35 years after my onslaught. Canes, walkers, and wheelchairs become personal items to many by the end, but not to all. I indulge in all levels of suffering. I certainly affect a victim's daily life. Some companies have fired employees based on my presence, while others come up with new jobs more befitting the afflicted. Home life is affected too, especially to those victims in wheelchairs. Spices, cleaning items, utensils, clothing, and everything else must be rearranged to the level of the person in the wheelchair. Grip bars or seats are sometimes installed in the shower so that patients can independently wash themselves. Humans seem to come up with ways to help afflicted people no matter what malady I place upon them. Phones have been invented where the dialing is done by heavy breathing. Utensils have sticky rubber on them for a better grip. They wear boots to strengthen their weak ankles. Instead of buttons and belt buckles, they use snap-ons and elastic. They even have zippers with gadgets to make them easier to use. Yes, their inventiveness tries my patience. One woman I left completely helpless except for the movement of her eyelids. She couldn't see, but somehow her family managed to spell out what she wanted based on how she moved her eyelids. Indeed, I sometimes underestimate the human spirit. The humans still even have fun, squelching my most profound efforts. Often they're stronger than I had anticipated. They still go to restaurants and theaters. They sometimes play table tennis and even ride with a friend or spouse on tandem bicycles. Many indulge in swimming, much to my frustration and (dare I admit? ) my admiration. Experience has taught me that affecting them daily with physical problems doesn't really stop these resilient humans, so I try to hit them emotionally as well. The physical limitations have a great effect on a patient's daily life, but the psychological effect is sometimes even more profound. I choose most often to attack during the ages of twenty to forty, the most productive years on average for humans. That is when they marry, build careers, and fulfill dreams. My presence is therefore devastating. My reputation has been so built up that often one will fall into despair upon the announcement that I am with him, or his spouse will divorce him; or his friends will desert him for fear of catching me. (I am not contagious, however. I prefer to be more confounding than that.) Many a time the actual situation isn't that bad, but the depression and loneliness of the patient makes things seem worse. They imagine themselves bedridden within a year, and I therefore defeat them in a game of the mind. Unfortunately, some have realized my ruse. When my victims acknowledge me, and sufficiently adapt to the situation, their hope in the future aids them tremendously. Through positive thinking and determination they put up an admirable fight. I can be fought, and my seriousness lessened; but so far I have never been defeated. However, these humans worry me. They are intelligent creatures, and they have a nobility I find disturbing, as they are motivated to continue the fight. Some of them help my victims individually through befriending them and easing the stress of daily living. Others offer money and time through their wretched read-a-thons and mara-thons for the sole purpose of raising support to discover my secrets. Their research efforts have multiplied to a disconcerting level. Already they have discovered so much. I fear the day is coming when my power will be greatly diminished. Perhaps they will even extinguish me as I have snuffed out so many of them ... About the Winners For her moving poem on one woman's struggle with MS, Fiona Reid of Prescott, AZ, took first place in the college category. The 48-year-old career chef quit her job to return to school full-time after a 30-year hiatus. She is majoring in environmental science at Prescott College and is enjoying every minute of learning. A resident of Zambia, Fiona is hoping to soon earn her U.S. citizenship and is thrilled to be the winner of the PROJECT: Learn MS '97 essay contest. She wrote her essay about Jackie Potter, an MS Support Group leader from Prescott. Christy Harper, 17, who will be a senior this fall at Carmel High School in Carmel, CA, placed first for her essay creatively written in the third person all about MS. Christy works as an assistant at a physical therapist's office and plans to study medical subjects in college. MSAA thanks the top fundraiser, Tina Murphy, who raised $729. She received a color Zenith TV with remote for raising the most funds. MSAA would also like to thank all who raised money for MS and to Zenith, a cosponsor of the contest. Our Southwest Regional Office and our Pacific Regional Office are proud that this year's winners hail from their areas. Essay Contest: Honerable Mention This excerpt from "The Eternal Rose," by Jen Cannistra, a high school student from Sparta, New Jersey, uses a drooping rose as a metaphor for what MS does to a person. "Once upon a time there was an old woman who lived alone on a hill overlooking a small town. She spent most of her days working in her rose garden, tending the beautiful, delicate flowers... One morning, as she looked at her rose garden, she noticed that her favorite-the biggest, reddest, and most beautiful flower-looked weak and unsteady. She immediately devoted herself to the rose, making sure it had enough sunlight and moisture. However, the rose did not become better, and instead it began to droop to the side, no longer standing proud and tall... Although the rose lost some of its outer beauty, the old woman did not hold this against the flower. Instead, she loved it even more. Believing that beauty comes from within, she often closed her eyes and basked in the fragrance of this rose, enjoying its qualities. Some people, like her neighbor, could not notice these inner beautiful traits, and they did not give the rose the opportunity to spread its joy. The woman, however, continually supported, loved, and cared for the rose, allowing the flower to reveal its wonderful gifts." This excerpt from "She Asked For My Heart," describes the special relationship the author had with Milda, an MS patient, who she cared for until her death. It was written by Michelle Hauso of East Wenatchee,Washington. "The funeral was over. Milda was gone. My throat ached as I remembered my friend. Multiple sclerosis: I was 19 years old when I first encountered it by answering an ad in the local paper for a position that required live-in assistance. In the spring she enlisted me to do her gardening. As I worked, she would motor herself out on to the porch and watch me with a shawl over her timeworn frame. Each time I pricked my fingers as I learned to tend her roses, she would laugh. As they blossomed, she would request me to clip them and bring them to her. Soon her wheelchair would be full of beautiful, fragrant blossoms. She looked like she was in heaven every time she lifted up a flower as if to savor it and study its delicately formed petals... As I looked upon Milda in her casket, I wanted to kiss her goodbye. She looked beautiful; she had finally achieved a 'perfect hair day.' I leaned close, and put my hand on hers. It shocked me how cold she was. And then I realized she wasn't there. She was already running..." Healing from the hive MSAA funds a historic study to investigate the therapeutic properties of honeybee venom. For Donna Domby of Michigan, just getting through the days was a chore. The 42-year-old mother of two grown children was diagnosed with multiple sclerosis in 1977. At first she felt numbness in various parts of her body, had poor vision, and was very clumsy. Even with the fatigue and vision problems, she still was able to take care of her children and to work at a video store for 10 years. When her fatigue worsened and her vision started to go, she was forced to quit her job. Eventually her physical health deteriorated to the point where she was almost totally bedridden. "I couldn't get up the stairs to go to sleep, so a day bed was put in the living room. I needed help going to the bathroom. My mother had to come in and help me every day to make meals and do housework," Donna remembers. Then one night her daughter and husband watched a story on bee venom therapy (BVT) reported by Connie Chung on television. The segment shared the stories of MS patients who found some relief from their symptoms with the use of bee venom stings. Highly skeptical since no other treatment had worked for her, Donna finally agreed-after much insistence from her family-to try BVT. Donna and her family traveled nearly 500 miles to the home of noted BVT activist Pat Wagner, who also suffers from multiple sclerosis. Known as the "Bee Lady," Pat has stung more than 7,000 people with honeybees and has applied 17,900 bee stings to herself to alleviate her MS symptoms. "That evening after only one day of bee venom therapy, I could feel spasms in my feet, and I could feel my husband applying pressure to my toes," Donna remembers. "It was the first time I had felt anything but numbness there in many years." Armed with a jar of bees, Donna began her regimen of receiving 60 stings every other day. A year later, she walked across the room at an MS support group meeting without the use of her cane. The other members couldn't believe her progress, and wanted to know her secret. To help others like herself, for three years Donna opened her house to MS pa-tients from all over the country and Canada to learn more about bee venom therapy. Five years after receiving the therapy for the first time, Donna now only gets stung on an "as needed basis." Donna knows it works for her because she once agreed to stop being stung to participate in a BVT study and her symptoms worsened. When she resumed BVT, her symptoms again improved. "Bee venom therapy is not a cure. But until they find a cure for MS or come up with something better, it's what I have to rely on. What caused my MS may be different than what caused it for another person," Donna explains. "That's why this therapy may not work for everyone. It works for me." One of the patients Donna helped was Ann Meythaler, also of Michigan. Diagnosed with chronic progressive MS in 1985, Ann had garbled speech, serious vision problems, extreme fatigue, cognitive trouble, numbness, and lost her ability to walk. When Ann discovered BVT four years ago, it changed her life. She still uses a wheelchair, but her quality of life has improved dramatically. For example, she says on the days that she doesn't get stung, just unloading the dishwasher can be a difficult task, both physically and cognitively, and her speech is mottled. Stung every other day, Ann feels a tremendous energy boost and her problem solving skills improve. "Even though I am in a wheelchair, my quality of life is so much better. Just doing everyday tasks is easier. It may sound mundane, but now I can take care of my house and cook," Ann says. "You name the therapy, and I have tried it. But nothing has worked for me like bee venom therapy. These teeny honeybees are God's gifts. They may not stop the disease from progressing, but they have helped me manage my symptoms. I don't get that terrible fatigue, my vision clears, and I have no numbness." Like Donna and Ann, thousands of multiple sclerosis patients are singing the praises of bee venom in helping relieve their symptoms. Seeing this growing trend, MSAA knew hard science must be called in to investigate. Through a $250,000 research grant, the MSAA is the first MS organization in the country to release funds for the human scientific study under FDA guidelines of honeybee (Apis melittin) venom therapy as a treatment for MS. The Phase I study, being conducted at Georgetown University Medical Center in Washington, DC this summer, will examine the safety and tolerance of honeybee venom extracts as a possible therapy for patients with chronic progressive MS. Under the direction of Dr. Joseph A. Bellanti, principal investigator and director of the Georgetown Medical Center's Immunology Department, the first phase of the study will begin this summer and end a year later. Eight individuals with chronic progressive MS will receive two injections per week of honeybee venom extract for one year. Each study participant will undergo monthly evaluations primarily for safety and tolerance of the treatment and also to monitor the efficacy of the procedure. Chronic progressive multiple sclerosis patients have few treatment choices, some of which are experimental and pose serious health risks. In recent years, thousands of MS patients have reported significant symptom relief through the alternative practice of bee venom therapy (BVT). For centuries BVT has been practiced in many eastern countries, including China, Japan, and Korea. The therapy in-volves repeated stings from honeybees to various parts of the body. Experiments have demonstrated that bee venom is far more potent an anti-inflammatory agent than some currently used anti-inflammatory drugs. In addition, other bee products such as honey and bee pollen offer a variety of beneficial uses. Honey kills bacteria by converting an anti-bacterial enzyme it contains to hydrogen peroxide, which aids in the healing of burns and wounds. Bee pollen contains more than 20 percent proteins and 12 percent amino acids, more than grains, cereal, or any product of animal origin. It is considered by many to be nature's most nearly perfect protein food source. Somewhat new to this country, BVT is practiced by MS patients and by those who suffer with arthritis and other degenerative diseases. Although MS patients engaged in BVT receive 25 to 30 honeybee stings per session and average more than 3,000 yearly stings, there is no way to accurately measure how much extract is delivered nor how safely the stings are being administered. The study will determine dose-response relationships by giving known quantities of honeybee venom in calculated increasing doses. "With so many people stinging themselves, it's kind of haphazard. By performing this study, we hope to give some kind of scientific basis for dosage and potential side effects. This first phase will also evaluate how to give the stings safely," explains Dr. Bellanti. Dr. Bellanti is excited with the prospect of unlocking the secret power of bee venom to help some MS patients and dismisses the opinion of some of those in the medical community who view the alternative therapy as a bit 'kooky.' "We came to this study with bee venom because of the widespread use of bee venom therapy for the treatment of MS which is currently going on in this country. As far as I am concerned, there are two kinds of research: good research and bad research. Good research asks valid questions and is conducted using proper methodology," he notes. "It's hard to argue with preset biases. As scientists and medical professionals, we need to keep an open mind in order to help our patients. In the beginning I thought it was a little strange. But after researching it, I found that there are definite immunological changes the body undergoes after bee ven-om therapy. So I thought it may not be so far-fetched. How do we find out if it really works, unless we investigate it in a scientific way?" If Phase II of the study proves promising, Dr. Bellanti hopes to work with the MSAA on a second phase double blind study, where some MS patients receive bee venom and others receive a placebo. "The best outcome would be that bee venom therapy could become a safe alternative treatment for chronic progressive MS patients," says Dr. Bellanti. "We are very excited with the prospect, but we don't want to give false hope. While we hope it will be efficacious, we have to wait and see what it shows." - Christine Norris A Word of Caution From Our President "BVT entails a real risk of dangerous allergic reaction, as well as an emotional and monetary cost in chasing false hopes. The MSAA does not recommend or endorse the use of honeybee venom for the treatment of MS or other disorders. We are funding this study to determine if this approach has any neurological benefit. If the results prove positive, then additional clinical studies and possible treatment practices of MS can begin. If the results prove negative, then the MSAA has helped to eliminate false hope. Any-one interested in BVT should first consult his or her physician." - John Hodson, Sr. TO FIND OUT MORE The following resources can provide you with more information on bee venom therapy: Health and the Honeybee by Charles Mraz, "the dean" of bee venom therapy, and The Four Seasons of Charlie Mraz video. To order these titles created by the world-renowned apithera- pist, call or write Honeybee Health Products at P.O. Box 4326-B, Burlington, VT 05406; 1-800-603-3577. The American Apitherapy Society Inc. is a non- profit membership organization that informs the world of the benefits of valuable products from the beehive. Its fairly extensive membership base includes beekeepers, apitherapy patients, and apitherapists. Members share information with each other on a regular basis. Yearly membership costs $40 per year and includes a quarterly newsletter. For more information, write or call The American Apitherapy Society c/o Linda Day, Office Coordinator, 5370 Carmel Road, Hillsboro, Ohio 45133; 937-466-9214. These MS patients also are available to help: Pat Wagner - (301) 843-8350 Maureen Naughton - (508) 568-8841 Kelly Ames P.O. Bos 1496 East Arlington, MA 02174 Paul Cronshaw, D.C. Cyberchiro and Hobbyist Beekeeper Santa Barbara, CA USA ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 22 Aug 1997 23:03:18 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Dave from Scranton Subject: Re: mould on brood comb Comments: To: "\\Dr. Pedro P. Rodriguez" In-Reply-To: <33FD9BE7.61FB83C7@norfolk.infi.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Fri, 22 Aug 1997, \Dr. Pedro P. Rodriguez wrote: > Not to worry. The bees will clean out the mold as soon as the colony > gets strong enough and be in need of the combs. However, it means that > the bees will waste harvest time in clean up. Which would you rather > have? It might be to your advantage to provide new foundation and take > advantage of the revenue differential. Yes, the bes will clean it up. I gave a brrod box full of mouldy frames to teh bees this spring adn they cleaned it up nicely. As for the suggestion of giving new foundation instead of cleaning the old stuff. I'm not sure if giving foundation is a good idea. I'd rather have to clean up a house than to build one before I moved in. But your milage may vary. BTW, they will also clean up wax worm damage. I had some wax worms that had started to tunnel thru the frame. They got rid of the worms and fixed up the damage rather quickly. ****************************************************************************** Dave D. Cawley, Maitre d' | The Internet Cafe | Scranton, Pennsylvania | (717) 344-1969 | dave@scranton.com | ****************************************************************************** URL => http://www.scranton.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 31 Aug 1997 07:45:37 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Andy Nachbar Subject: Re: European foulbrood in New Zealand? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 11:28 PM 8/31/97 +1200, Nick Wallingford wrote: >The presence of European foulbrood in a country is not an matter of >'opinion' - it simple testing for causative organism. However much >conspiracy theory some might want to read into everything, New >Zealand bees are tested regularly for the presence of EFB. The tests >have always been negative. I believe you Nick, I also believe what your are saying is the "official" position of your government, the NZ beekeeper organization, and a very convenient way to keep the importing of honeybees to a minimum just as AFB is a good excuse not to import honey or bee collected pollen from other countries. Some would see conspiracy, all I see is convenience... I also believe that the beekeepers that I was speaking of who were here many years ago had no reason to lie about EFB in their bees in NZ as they had no reason to tell me they thought they had seen EFB in their bees as it was not a major issue now or them with me personally and at the time a few countries were still burning hives with EFB as well as AFB and for all I know may still be doing so. Some would say "poor beekeepers", I would say "poor regulations". I don't know anything about the NZ beekeepers mentioned in the AMERICAN BEE JOURNAL but I would suggest that maybe NZ has a problem with NZ beekeepers not following the party line and speaking out of school, but I do believe that in the country of New Zealand their is officially no problems with EFB as the bees don't have it there so it is said, just as there is no problem with EFB in the USA, we have it, and have had it since it was first found here but it is not a problem, it must only be a problem in Europe. (E)-U-rope it out is American Foulbrood which is also not a problem in America, we have it, we burn it...or treat to keep from finding it. Why I like to rub it in...I personally don't believe there is a dime's difference between bees or beekeepers as a group and when one group tries to snow the other with "my bees", or "my honey" is better then the others I get interested very fast. I also feel sad for any bee industry that relies on their governments to tell them of the health of their bees or protecting the health of their bees. If the beekeepers in the United States did this we would all have got rid of our bees a long time ago as they all are going to die anyway or sting you or someone you love to death..according to government reports. Oh sure there are bad beekeepers, and bad bees, but those are the one's that no man from the government gets to look at anyway...and in a free market if your beekeeping, bees or honey are not up to competitive standards you soon are replaced, you can't hide behind your government or any label you put on your bees or honey. Not to say NZ hides behind their bee laws anymore then Hawaii would have liked to hide behind theirs. Like some say in Hawaii, "God Save The Queens", and " "Cockup" the Hawaiian's Bees" or was it queens? If our government was as informed as your's I really doubt any problem would exist with any bees landing in Hawaii no matter how safe who's government says it is. But then some say the bees from Hawaii are the healthiest in the world, you and I know better as we know from where they came, stack them white boxes high enough and from a distance they all look like privies, but then no matter how healthy they are if they would sting your pockets shut what good are they, but then we also know that is history now and not the way it is today. >I don't quite follow that one, Andy. Are you still referring to NZ >in this? NZ beekeepers have never said anything about our AFB coming >from empty imported honey containers. Oh, maybe that was the other NZ, you know the one where they talk funny and drink warm beer by the gallon, sorry all beekeepers and bee laws look the same to me.(That is the God's Truth!) >And even if we did, how does that suddenly mean that we must also have EFB??? I don't know anything about any "suddenly", like since NZ bees were suddenly allowed to land on Hawaii, as the experience I had with NZ beekeepers coming over here and telling me personally they had EFB in NZ it was many years ago, but if the way bees get AFB is such a concern that all empty honey containers need be regulated why would the same empty containers not also carry EFB same as bee collected pollens? ttul, your friend, Andy- Los Banos, California **BTW, The way you end a tread is to not reply to it. (c) Permission is granted to freely copy this document in any form, or to print for any use. (w)Opinions are not necessarily facts. Use at own risk. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 31 Aug 1997 09:01:49 -1000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Walter Patton Subject: Re: HAWAII honey bee concerns ALOHA MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ALOHA First off let me state that I do not want the world to think that I think that the Hawaiian honey bees are the cleanest honey bees on earth, just the cleanest in the United States by virtue of not having mites or AHB genes and that these colonies are the most isolated colonies on earth.I have always stated that Hawaii needs to be considered even though we are small. We do not have the current survey data to claim to be the healthiest bee hives on earth. Hawaii needs current survey data so that REAL risk assessment can be under taken to best protect the Hawaiian honey bees. Because the feeling is that the "FIX IS ON " and that no one can stop the NZ bees from being imported the testing will have to be totally independent to assure objectivity and this will make the testing expensive. The Hawaii Dept. Of Agriculture with it's budget cuts has no money for testing and neither the USDA or anyone else has offered any money for the required independent testing the testing has not been under taken. I do not blame the NZ chaps for wanting to sell their tired and dying end of season bees to anyone willing to pay for them. I am upset that it appears that the USDA does not have anyone watching out for the best interest of the US honey bees. BY the way the Australian and NZ bee industries continue to demand and lobby for the right to export their honey bees to the United States under the provisions of the GATT and NAFTA International Free trade agreements. They do so without any demand from US bee keepers for the bees. The USDA is right now revisiting the all ready gutted HONEY BEE ACT of 1922. The act was changed without proper notice or any valid risk assessment to allow the NZ bees the right of entry to Hawaii in violation of a Hawaii State law that prohibits the entry of honey bee to Hawaii to protect our mite free bees. This action was started while "on the take" ESPY was the USDA chief. The top honey bee researcher and protector of US honey bees was hired in the 80's to help the NZ bee industry prepare to export their honey bees around the world. Objectivity is usually lost when a person tries to work both sides of the fence, and yet the USDA does not see the need to use a peer review group when contemplating the NZ bees for import into the United States. Regarding the NZ claims about their bees I 'm sure that they truly believe what they preach. I do question if their process would be adequate to truly PROVE a negative. When I inquired around the world about the requirement s to test our Hawaiian bees I was told repeatedly that to prove a negative we would have to test 100% of our Hawaiian bee colonies. This is the point of this posting. WHAT IS REQUIRED under GATT and NAFTA to prove a scientific negative?? Can any one tell me and would the same requirements be applicable to NZ with their claims of no mites, AHB, or EFB. For what it's worth most bee science people that I have questioned find it hard to believe that EFB could be totally absent in NZ. and the claim of the eradication AFB in NZ bee colonies hardly believable. NICK are you still with me since the questions that follow are for you the UN official PR and industry representative for NZ bee keepers and the owner of two bee hives. I get the numbers sited below from the NZ honey bee Industry profile from 1994. Is there a more current edition and how would I get a copy? For the record one more time since you all ways want to mention the disease and pest of honey bees not found in NZ I will again print the list of disease and pest of honey bees that you do have in NZ most of which and we have NEVER experienced in Hawaii. Granted there is no scientific data available to prove that we do not in fact have some of the pests and diseases of honey bees. LIST of pests and diseases found on NZ honey bees 1. American Foul Brood 2 KASHMIR BEE VIRUS (deadly to bees with the mites) 3 Nosema 4 Chalkbrood 5 Sacbrood 6 Cronic BEE Paralysis 7 Black queen cell 8 Acute bee paralysis 9 Cloudy Wing Virus 10 Bee Virus X 11 Bee Virus Y 12 Filamentous Virus 13 Amoeba Disease 14 European foul brood (maybe) 15 Melittiphis Alvearius 16 Acarapis externus 17 Acarapis dorsalis 18 Neocypholaelaps zealandicus 19 Melanoius The NZ folks will quickly want to dismiss me and say that these pests and disease are of no economic consequence and their knowledge is only with bees that are not suffering already with the two blood sucking mites currently causing stellar losses across mainland USA. The lobbyist for NZ bees being exported to the USA will also point to the results of recent testing done by an Australian bee researcher that most of the virus have been found on USA honey bees, which is possible from the honey bees from Canada that the USDA allows to be imported from Canada. NOTE Canada imports NZ bees and after new source of origin papers are prepared are then shipped to the USA. Is this a reason to allow for the continued introduction and spread of these pest and diseases across the USA? I think not. About testing. NZ reports 25,124 apiaries ( sites where bee are kept) Nick reports that 491 ( 2%) apiaries were inspected in 1995-96 from areas around dump sites, ports and tourist areas what about way out back where some of the beekeepers think they have seen EFB? The reference is made to visual inspections. What does this mean? Looking at bees as they come and go on the landing board or does this mean a close brood inspection of every hive in the chosen apiary, or do you check say 2 % of the hives in the particular apiary? Then we are told about testing every queen bee shipper. What percentage of the hives were inspected in the 509 apiaries? How are feral bees tested? These questions are asked with a sincere desire to understand what will be required for Hawaii to make claims of negative findings if we are ever able to survey our bees? Sorry for the implications of doubt and after watching how easily US officials can be BOUGHT by special interest groups and being aware of the smoke and mirror techniques available for clever salesmen to use when trying sell their goods to unsuspecting buyers, I tend to practice BUYER BEWARE attitudes when some one is trying to sell me something that is unsolicited and without any benefit to the buyer. Wishing you the best in your relentless efforts to peddle your bees and I do not want them passing through Hawaii for even one minute until the results are determined regarding any threat to Hawaii honey bees. Maybe some day we will know the answers and I doubt the likely hood of the truth ever being known. I realize that this is a big money issue for you guys and it is a big concern of mine that we protect the Hawaii honey bees. Aloha and SOB, SAVE OUR BEES in Americafor the future. Walter ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 31 Aug 1997 15:41:47 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Brenda Wishin MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thank you for all the info you have shared. I have used your resources, and appreciate the help. I have been stinging my husband for a month, his feeling is coming back in his arm and his energy level is up so much he doesn't nap anymore. Thank you for restoring hope to those who have been told there is nothing. ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 1 Sep 1997 20:51:27 +1200 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Nick Wallingford Organization: Bay of Plenty Polytechnic Subject: Re: HAWAII honey bee concerns ALOHA MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT > When I inquired > around the world about the requirement s to test our Hawaiian bees > I was told repeatedly that to prove a negative we would > have to test 100% of our Hawaiian bee colonies. This is the point > of this posting. It isn't necessary to test 100% of your colonies. Without going into the details of it, what needs to be established is that for a given percentage of confidence, your bees have been sampled and tested and found to be free of the particular pest/disease. That simply means the choice of which colonies to sample, how to sample, even when to sample, which test to use, etc, must be part of an overall survey design that will allow it to be said *with confidence* that the country is free of a pest or disease. Though I know you don't trust them, you should talk about this to a scientist-type person, even if they aren't involved in beekeeping. The survey design would be similar... You don't seem to have any problem stating that Hawaii is free of given pests/diseases *without* testing - why do you find it so hard to believe New Zealand when such testing *has* occured???? > Granted there is no scientific data available to > prove that we do not in fact have some of the pests and diseases > of honey bees. I guess that kind of summarises the problem you face... Walter, all of your references to diseases that have been reported in New Zealand and the testing procedures you refer to come from material I have provided to you in your 'search for truth'. You've also made it clear you don't believe or trust anything I have said to you about our beekeeping or pest/disease status. I'm sorry you can't perceive the New Zealand beekeepers' willingness to provide an 'open' process to help resolve such trade matters, and continually fall back to a position of utter mistrust and abuse. Why don't you come down here to visit and see for yourself, perhaps? I would be happy to help you come to a personal conclusion that might end some of the unproductive backbiting and bickering that seems to predominate in these postings... (\ Nick Wallingford {|||8- home nickw@wave.co.nz (/ work nw1@boppoly.ac.nz NZ Beekeeping http://www.beekeeping.co.nz ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 31 Aug 1997 14:00:15 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Conrad Berube Subject: Re: Teaching taxonomy beyond APIS... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" For those interested in bee taxonomy two articles that I recently posted on my web page (cyber-versions of the same articles that appeared in the June and July issues of the American Bee Journal) may be of interest. The articles describe the evolutionary history of the honeybee and descriptions of the relationships between the families of bees and other members of the order Hymenoptera: "Beeginings : the evolution of the honeybee (part 2)," American Bee Journal, (July, 1997)
"Beeginings : the evolution of the honeybee (part 1)," American Bee Journal, (June, 1997) HiveLights (October 1996)
- Conrad Berube " ` ISLAND CROP MANAGEMENT " ` 613 Hecate St. _- -_`-_|'\ /` Nanaimo, B.C. _/ / / -' `~()() V9R 4K4 \_\ _ /\-._/\/ (250)754-2482; fax (250)656-8922 / | | email: uc779@freenet.victoria.bc.ca '` ^ ^ website: http://nanaimo.ark.com/~cberube ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 31 Aug 1997 12:47:49 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Paul Basehore Subject: Re: Crudities Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 02:09 AM 8/30/97 EDT, you wrote: >After reading several simplistic rationalizations like... >... so if we don't like what is on them we can turn the knob all >>the way to the left. WHEN CENSORSHIP THRIVES THE RIGHT TO FREE SPECH IS >DEMINISHED ALONG WITH OTHER RIGHTS I HOLD DEAR!! > ...I REALLY began to be offended. > >Of COURSE, the best response to the original bit of barnyard humor was to >ignor it but the vigorous DEFENSE of material that was not only crude but >outside the perameters of the list subject---makes that an abrogation of >responsibility. > First of all the simplistic rationalization you refer to doesn't defend or condone the material you were offended to, however it does vigorously defend the right to free speech, the right to assemble peaceable, the right to own and bare arms etc. You need to read it againe. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 31 Aug 1997 14:48:22 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Genie Subject: Help-wintering Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hi to all! We have completed our first season. Now we are looking for help with wintering the bees. Hopefully they will still be alive in the spring. Have treated with the Ap-strips. We are approx. 75 miles south of Prince George,B.C. Close to the temp. of Edmonton Alberta. Have looked on the net. but could not find what to do with the hives for the winter. We would appriciate any help we can get. Thanks for your time. Genie Quesnel,BC,Canada genie@goldcity.net ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 31 Aug 1997 14:51:55 -0700 Reply-To: snielsen@orednet.org Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Susan L. Nielsen" Subject: Off-topic: Princess Diana I apologize for he off-topic nature of this post, and it will be short. But I know that we have a large number of subscribers who are UK people, and I do want to extend to them my great sense of sympathy to them for the loss, yesterday, of the much-loved mother of the heir to the throne. The shock I felt was resounding, and I know that many people will be feeling quite stunned today. Diana's death is a loss not just to the people of the UK, but to people around the world. She will be missed, not only in her family and her nation, but in the good works she proffered every day. Susan -- Susan Nielsen | Beehive: If you build it, snielsen@orednet.org | they will comb. --